# Advice please: I'm not allowed a home birth



## winegums

i've had my booking appointment.

i asked about the home birth and the midwife laughed and was like 'no way, we don't allow home births after a cesarean.'

We had a big discussion, me telling her i knew the facts, i knew the risks, i basically bloody know everything about the topic as i've been so worried about it.

She said I'm going to be under a consultant care as i'm high risk, i cannot even give birth in the midwife led birthing unit.

I can't go in water. I can't do anything.

She said I'd be lucky to even manage a vaginal birth in the hospital with pain relief, i would probably end up having another c section.

then she said its doubtful but maybe one day if im lucky i could have a home birth IF i 'manage' to have a vaginal birth in hospital.

I'm so upset and confused.

Oh also she weighed me and said I'm on the border of overweight and obese so i need to have glucose tests for diabetes etc?!

I know it's all bullshit. It's MY choice. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


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## StarBound

Demand to see your gp - for a start 

I believe a gp can suggest whats best for you - a midwife cannot control what you do and just because it would be a VBAC that shouldnt make you high risk :/ 

I was borderline overweight etc. i had the tests when they came back clear i was put as low risk.


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## MadamRose

If you want a HB whether they like it or not if you are fully informed of the risks and still want to go for it they have to give you the care on the NHS. 
My MW didnt want me to have one becuase of a bleed at 23 weeks im telling her next week at my 28week appoinment that despite her consern after looking at the risks i still want one. I would say this hunni :hugs:


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## madasa

Have you read this?

On VHBACs:
https://www.homebirth.org.uk/vbachome.htm

On being refused care:
https://www.homebirth.org.uk/homebirthuk.htm

Excerpt:


> The midwives' professional body, the Nursing and Midwifery Council, has published guidance for midwives on homebirth in March 2006. It makes it clear that midwives should support women's informed choice, even if that means the midwife should improve her training and skills, or if her employer claims that it does not have the resources. It states that the denial of a homebirth service affects women just as much as denying them a hospital birth service. You can view a .pdf copy of original circular here: NMC Circular 8-2006.

and:
https://www.homebirth.org.uk/law.htm
(the legal stuff ^^)

Put it in writing that you are planning to birth at home and you expect a midwife to attend you :)


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## LolaAnn

hi honey, they can't force you into it :) You are allowed to give birth where you want regardless of anything else. If you know all the risks etc then even more reason why you should be allowed it. I suggest writing to the supervisor of midwives and asking to be assigned to a midwife who will suport your endevour to birth your baby at home :)


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## summer rain

I sympathise because I had a right b at my booking appointment also; categorised me as high risk for certain things even though I didn't even meet their criteria on the form and also said she is referring me to a specialist psychiatrist due to the fact I was depressed in the past but not any time recently. Some of them don't know what they are talking about and just want to make it seem like they know it all by banding about phrases such as 'we won't allow that' 'high risk' and all about 'policies' ask to change midwives but it certainly isn't up to the booking midwife anyway if you're allowed to have a homebirth or not.


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## amym

What a load of crap! Home birth if you want, get your own pool hon, just make sure you have a contingency plan just in case you need a quick transfer to hospital. 

Be strong, follow the advice on here x


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## lozzy21

I am sick to death of these so called profesionals telling us what were "not allowed" to do!!!

You stick to your guns and demand she stops being a cow and starts following the nhs policys!


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## Celesse

I agree with the others, stick to your guns and get it in writing. 

It really annoys me when professionals tell people they are not *"allowed"* this, that or the other. Why can't just tell people *"my advise as a professional is....... and this is based on....*". 

Forcing people to fight the system causes unnecessary stress and is dangerous. I am certain that someone somewhere will have fought the system, needed a transfer and felt unable to because of the fight they have had to get there.


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## lousielou

I think it's horrible that she was so negative. A huge percentage of women who have previously had a C-Section go on to have a vaginal birth the second time around, so her comment about you 'being lucky' if you 'manage' to do so is utterly ridiculous. You have every right to chose how you birth your baby, and she should respect your decision. You're obviously very well read on the subject, and frankly I think I'd have been pretty gutted by her attitude too!

The other ladies have given you some great advice - those websites are really helpful - and you have all of us for moral support too. 

xxxxx


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## winegums

thanks everyone i was ready to tear my hair out i swear. I had to go through all of this last time and I STILL didn't get my home birth so now I just feel really poo.

The thing is i KNEW it was going to happen so i read up about it first... but when she was sitting there looking at me like i was stupid etc all the confidence just flowed out of me and i gave up arguing about it... sorry 'discussing' it lol.

i had to jump through hoops last time and i was low risk no problems textbook pregnancy everything was perfect up till the week before. you should have seen the relief on their faces that i wasnt having a home birth :( i just don't get it.

The thing is as well... my partner was supporting me... but she told us all this crap about risks and made it sound life threatening and horrible and now he's really worried and think we should do what she says! they can be so manipulative! 

and i'm about 10 minute drive from hospital!!! so even if i DID give birth in hospital and needed an emergency c section or something it could take them up to HALF HOUR to get the room ready and the surgeon etc so why the hell would it matter if i'm at home


arhjjgffghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i'm going to start doing more research and forming a letter to send to whoever is in charge out of the midwives


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## winegums

Celesse said:


> I agree with the others, stick to your guns and get it in writing.
> 
> It really annoys me when professionals tell people they are not *"allowed"* this, that or the other. Why can't just tell people *"my advise as a professional is....... and this is based on....*".
> 
> Forcing people to fight the system causes unnecessary stress and is dangerous. I am certain that someone somewhere will have fought the system, needed a transfer and felt unable to because of the fight they have had to get there.

Totally agree, they make it so difficult.
However I have spoken to midwives online, and my hypnobirthing teacher was a midwife and some of them are so much better than these midwives we all end up seeing!

this one told me shes been a midwife for 40 years, i was tempted to ask her what recent training she's done to be kept up to date :haha:


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## Rmar

A regular VBAC is not high risk. You probably already know as you sounds pretty clued up on it.

That is incredibly rude of her. Imagine what a miserable world it would be if every midwife had no confidence in what a woman's body can do. 

Good for you for doing more research and I would demand another midwife. If things don't start looking up would you consider an independent midwife?


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## Pixxie

Ask if any of the midwives at your surgery have experience of VBAC and switch to her for a start. TELL her you ARE having a homebirth and they WILL send out a midwife to you otherwise you will do it all by yourself, they will brick it and give you whatever you want. 

Do your research, make a formal request in writing and make sure you get the birth you want! Fight for it all the way, I would. xxx


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## Celesse

Dunno if you have found your way to this site: https://www.caesarean.org.uk/ 
Has some home birth info on and a lot of VBAC info.
https://www.caesarean.org.uk/articles/Myths.html check out myth #3


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## Kess

Due#1-2010 said:


> If you want a HB whether they like it or not if you are fully informed of the risks and still want to go for it they have to give you the care on the NHS.
> My MW didnt want me to have one becuase of a bleed at 23 weeks im telling her next week at my 28week appoinment that despite her consern after looking at the risks i still want one. I would say this hunni :hugs:




madasa said:


> Have you read this?
> 
> On VHBACs:
> https://www.homebirth.org.uk/vbachome.htm
> 
> On being refused care:
> https://www.homebirth.org.uk/homebirthuk.htm
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> 
> The midwives' professional body, the Nursing and Midwifery Council, has published guidance for midwives on homebirth in March 2006. It makes it clear that midwives should support women's informed choice, even if that means the midwife should improve her training and skills, or if her employer claims that it does not have the resources. It states that the denial of a homebirth service affects women just as much as denying them a hospital birth service. You can view a .pdf copy of original circular here: NMC Circular 8-2006.
> 
> and:
> https://www.homebirth.org.uk/law.htm
> (the legal stuff ^^)
> 
> Put it in writing that you are planning to birth at home and you expect a midwife to attend you :)Click to expand...

I got told the other day at my booking appointment that although I could book in for a homebirth, if the hospital was busy they'd insist on me coming in so they didn't have to take up a midwife on me being at home. I had read some of the quoted above and thought that they HAD to attend at home and I could refuse to go to hospital, but I asked and she said they'd just leave me to labour at home alone. Apparently a couple of cases over the past couple of years have clarified the issue, and they're not obligated to send someone to attend you at home if you refuse to go into hospital.

I'm now planning on getting an Independent Midwife since then I can get to know and trust them before hand (rather than getting a random midwife, one of a team of 20 or more) and they will definitely come no matter how busy the darn hospital is!


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## winegums

Rmar said:


> A regular VBAC is not high risk. You probably already know as you sounds pretty clued up on it.
> 
> That is incredibly rude of her. Imagine what a miserable world it would be if every midwife had no confidence in what a woman's body can do.
> 
> Good for you for doing more research and I would demand another midwife. If things don't start looking up would you consider an independent midwife?

cheapest independant midwives round here are just under 4k which i SERIOUSLY cannot afford :(

this is what i really wanted to do but last time i was preg it was like roughly 2.5k

so i was hoping i might be able to somehow manage it this time......... but has got more expensive :(


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## rachelfox

I am over weight and classes as obease on the bmi charts yet my mw suggested a homebirth to me i had also decided i wanted one b4 any way i had a 2 hr labour with ds on gas and air so i think thats why it was suggested also i had the gtt with ds it made me so ill i have naturally low blood sugars but no one would listen to me.
I havent had a c sec but there is so much info about vbac at home out there i would really fight for your homebirth if thats what you want you have the right to !!!!!!!


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## lousielou

Kess said:


> I got told the other day at my booking appointment that although I could book in for a homebirth, if the hospital was busy they'd insist on me coming in so they didn't have to take up a midwife on me being at home. I had read some of the quoted above and thought that they HAD to attend at home and I could refuse to go to hospital, but I asked and she said they'd just leave me to labour at home alone. Apparently a couple of cases over the past couple of years have clarified the issue, and they're not obligated to send someone to attend you at home if you refuse to go into hospital.

That's crap! They have agency midwives they can call in if they're short staffed. 

They're not obliged to send a midwife out to you no, but I've been researching homebirths since I was first pregnant with my son two years ago, and I have never heard of them refusing point blank to come out when a woman has actually been in labour (though I have certainly heard of them trying it on!)


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## Celesse

lousielou said:


> Kess said:
> 
> 
> I got told the other day at my booking appointment that although I could book in for a homebirth, if the hospital was busy they'd insist on me coming in so they didn't have to take up a midwife on me being at home. I had read some of the quoted above and thought that they HAD to attend at home and I could refuse to go to hospital, but I asked and she said they'd just leave me to labour at home alone. Apparently a couple of cases over the past couple of years have clarified the issue, and they're not obligated to send someone to attend you at home if you refuse to go into hospital.
> 
> That's crap! They have agency midwives they can call in if they're short staffed.
> 
> They're not obliged to send a midwife out to you no, but I've been researching homebirths since I was first pregnant with my son two years ago, and I have never heard of them refusing point blank to come out when a woman has actually been in labour (though I have certainly heard of them trying it on!)Click to expand...

I was told by my midwife that I can make an informed decision to stay at home against medical advice and have a VBAC and someone would be sent.....but if there are not enough midwives on duty, or someone else in my area has gone into labour first, then I would have to go in, no other option.


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## Kess

lousielou said:


> Kess said:
> 
> 
> I got told the other day at my booking appointment that although I could book in for a homebirth, if the hospital was busy they'd insist on me coming in so they didn't have to take up a midwife on me being at home. I had read some of the quoted above and thought that they HAD to attend at home and I could refuse to go to hospital, but I asked and she said they'd just leave me to labour at home alone. Apparently a couple of cases over the past couple of years have clarified the issue, and they're not obligated to send someone to attend you at home if you refuse to go into hospital.
> 
> That's crap! They have agency midwives they can call in if they're short staffed.
> 
> They're not obliged to send a midwife out to you no, but I've been researching homebirths since I was first pregnant with my son two years ago, and I have never heard of them refusing point blank to come out when a woman has actually been in labour (though I have certainly heard of them trying it on!)Click to expand...

I'm not sure if your "That's crap!" is directed at me or the system, but I can assure you that is what I was told they would do, and although up to a couple of years ago the law implied the had to attend, a couple of court cases have since clarified that them offering a hospital place is sufficient to be fulfilling their legal duty to provide a midwifery service. I agree they should bring in bank midwives, and that their staffing issues shouldn't dictate where we give birth, but I'm not sure I want to risk being left alone in my first labour.


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## lousielou

Eek, no - it was directed at the system, not you! Sorry, I can see how that might have been misinterpreted :hugs: I don't doubt for a second that that's what you've been told, and I certainly understand your reluctance to risk being left alone in labour...


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## TattiesMum

Kess said:


> I got told the other day at my booking appointment that although I could book in for a homebirth, if the hospital was busy they'd insist on me coming in so they didn't have to take up a midwife on me being at home. I had read some of the quoted above and thought that they HAD to attend at home and I could refuse to go to hospital, but I asked and she said they'd just leave me to labour at home alone. Apparently a couple of cases over the past couple of years have clarified the issue, and they're not obligated to send someone to attend you at home if you refuse to go into hospital.
> 
> I'm now planning on getting an Independent Midwife since then I can get to know and trust them before hand (rather than getting a random midwife, one of a team of 20 or more) and they will definitely come no matter how busy the darn hospital is!

The hospital midwife issue is total mis-direction ... they are trying to bullshit you Hon :hugs:

It only applies if you are on Consultant Led Care :shrug: If you are on Midwifery Led care and under the Community Midwives (who are attached to GP surgeries rather than to the hospital) then it doesn't even come up .... because community midwives don't deliver babies in the hospital - so it doesn't matter HOW busy the hospital is :dohh:

I don't post in here often .... mainly because I find it SO bloody frustrating that, 19 years down the line, women are still being fed the same bollocks and getting the same resistance to Home Birthing that I got when I had my 2nd and then 3rd babies at home :(

I would recommend going to your GP and telling him/her that you want a home birth under his auspices. If he is reluctant to do it then ask him to refer you to another local GP who WILL support you and provide the midwifery services. GP's get a ton of money for having us on their books (and even more once baby arrives) so it motivates them to be a bit more helpful :haha:

I know there are lots of websites and so on out there, but one book that I found absolutely invaluable when fighting for HB was this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Birth-Practical-Nicky-Wesson/dp/1905177062 It has been revised so it's up to date :D The best thing about it is that she covers all of the objections that you are likely to meet from doctors, consultants and midwives and gives you the tools and ammunition you need to sucessfully argue your case..... It's also GREAT for re-assuring OH's who are getting cold feet after listening to the midwife's doom and gloom.

Good Luck Hon :hugs: There is *nothing* like giving birth in your own home :hugs:


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## Kess

TattiesMum said:


> The hospital midwife issue is total mis-direction ... they are trying to bullshit you Hon :hugs:
> 
> It only applies if you are on Consultant Led Care :shrug: If you are on Midwifery Led care and under the Community Midwives (who are attached to GP surgeries rather than to the hospital) then it doesn't even come up .... because community led midwives don't deliver babies in the hospital - so it doesn't matter HOW busy the hospital is :dohh:

You're kidding!! I'm going to innocently ask the midwife when she comes out next Saturday if community midwives work in the hospital and see what she says. If she's been lying to me I'd like to watch her squirm. :growlmad:


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## winegums

That's right Kess community midwives do not deliver in hospitals at all!

basically they tell you to go to hospital due to 'shortages' or something else... unfortunately this a line they fob a LOT of people off with

however if you have planned a home birth with them and you go in to labour at home and phone them they NEED to send someone, no matter what even if its a midwife from another trust they can get someone there 99% of the time. It is their duty of care

There was a story in the paper recently as well a home birth called her midwives to come, they came (2 of them i think) and she didnt want any help or even want them to talk or ANYTHING but it was their duty to be there for her. She ended up having twins and had complications, she still wouldnt let them help and one of them died while the midwives were helpless as she could of sued them if they had tried to do anything and she told them not to

slightly off topic but yeh........ they turn up!


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## lolly25

Hi hun i know how you feel, this time im aiming for a vbac ( previously had a normal delivery). I must of hit lucky at the hospital booking in. Im not planning on a home birth after a discusion with the OH. I told the MW i expected to be able to have a water birth and be treated as low risk, but because of my obstetric history i was refered to a consultant, which i could choose which one, which i asked the mw which consultant was supportive of vbac and natural delivery. I attended the appointment with the consultant and after a discussion it has been put in my notes and signed by her that i am to be treated as a 'low risk' woman and that if i still choose to, be allowed to birth in the pool.


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## ellie

i dont know too much about this but wnated to send :hugs: i wanted a home birth and was gutted to end up with an emergency section, but next time (if we have any more!) i want a vbac and i woudl LOVE a home birth. I had sort of presumed i would be pressured to be in a consultant led unit but after my experience with consultants last time, i dont really want them anywehre near me!
I hope you've got some good info to arm yourself with now. Stick to your guns! I am so sick of birth being so over medicalised.


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## Celesse

In my area, and possibly others the community midwives on duty will get called in to work in the hospital if there is a staff shortage in the hospital they are unable to cover. This happened when I was approx 38 weeks pg and my midwife told me it was lucky I hadn't gone into labour as the on-call community midwives where all on labour ward delivering hospital babies. 

The problem with labour ward is sometimes it can be empty and sometimes its standing room only. And if a lot of women go into labour at the same time they have to find the midwives from somewhere. Once they have rung people at home, minimised the staff on post natal and antenatal wards and got what they can from agencies, community midwives are the only ones left.


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## winegums

ohh see thats what i would have guesed but i had to interview a midwife for some coursework and i did a hospital and a community and i asked the community one if they went to the hospital if it was short staffed and she said they never worked in hospitals they always used bank midwives as theres so many! maybe thats just my area though?


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## TattiesMum

winegums said:


> ohh see thats what i would have guesed but i had to interview a midwife for some coursework and i did a hospital and a community and i asked the community one if they went to the hospital if it was short staffed and she said they never worked in hospitals they always used bank midwives as theres so many! maybe thats just my area though?


It's the same where I live Winegums - the community midwives NEVER work in the hospital - it's simply not in their remit :shrug:


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## sammiwry

Winegums out of interest where in Surrey are you as I'm having problems trying to get a home birth but I'm Guildford way.


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## winegums

I'm further in... towards epsom area! its a pain isnt it!


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## sammiwry

It is very much a pain, the reasoning I'm being given is because I'm out of area to that hospital..


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## Celesse

Found some more interesting reading for you: https://www.childbirthconnection.org/pdfs/gecpc3ch38.pdf
Which is from a maternity text book, the chapter focusing on birth after a section. 
link to the whole book is: https://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ClickedLink=194&ck=10218&area=2

I've booked marked it ready for when I get my BFP and start my own HBAC campaign. I've already read a fair bit and nothing has made me feel I need to go into hospital. In fact all the research I have read on VBAC has swayed me from plan-for-both, to plan-for-home.


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## winegums

Thank you Celesse that's really helpful! xx


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