# Would this have helped you?



## Rairai

Hi ladies, I posted this previously in the general miscarriage forum but no responses.. I dont know if it is the wrong place to post this, or god forbid upset anyone... as that is not my intention at all.. I would just value some feedback...
so here is the post...

Im really hoping this is OK to post here... Basically, I have been reading loads of posts in loads of different sections on here... Im in the WTT group... but curiousity (sorry for spelling) has led me here...

So, I have been reading your stories, and they, quite frankly, are terrifying to me. Im so sorry for all your losses, but your strength is something you all can be proud of though, you might not feel strong all the time, but trust me, you are!

I have seen that alot of people have been helped by a charity called 'now i lay me down to sleep' a photographic team that will come out to the hospital and take portrait style pictures of you and your angel baby, so you have a permanent, beautiful picture of your LO to cherish.

I do photography as a serious hobby, I looked at applying to work for this charity but the calibre of photos, and the commitment they need is more than I can offer. 
I have looked at the hospitals in the UK that this charity cover and I have seen that my two local hospitals are not served by them.

My thinking is this... Should I offer my services in my local hospital? I do not know if I could face any of you and not cry along with you? I dont know if I, strong enough to do that? BUT at the same time, I believe in the beauty of photos, and I believe that they have some healing power... I would love to give, what I consider a wonderful gift, to a family in need, but I dont know really a) if that service would be appreciated by families, and b) if i could hold it together in order to create something for you. 

I would like to add that I would offer this on a free/donation basis, im NOT looking to make money on this, or to exploit anyone. Just to try to do a good deed for someone 

I would really appreciate any thoughts you have on the matter. 
Much love to you all. Rachel x


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## jojo23

hi hun! i actually think this is an amazing idea... and i mean the whole thing about getting upset with us is totally understandable. my midwife and nurses were crying when my little angel was born sleeping but it just made me like them even more!!!

i really would have loved something like this when i had Lily as i didnt take any pictures of her at all.

definitely go for it and well done for offering your services xxxx


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## Rairai

thanks jojo23... Its something im going to have to give a lot of thought to... I dont mind crying in front of people, but I would need to be able to hold the camera straight... I spoke to my mum about it, she lost a baby 25 years ago... she said I should make an appointment with the bereavement team at the hospital, but I need to be 120% sure its something I can do for people, and do their babies justice. x


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## feeble

mmm how good are you in a studio? Getting lighting right is HARD and you need to have the lighting right or your going to be giving people a picture of themselves looking rough at the worst possible time! 

I would invest in a Metz hammerhead flash with TTL and a Nikon D700. 

Also, how much are you planning to charge? Are you intending to make money from this? 

I am a photographer (with a degree) and i also lost a baby at 23 weeks, if someone were taking photos for me, i would need them to be good basically or there would be no point x 

I think its a lovely idea, but you need the know how about studio lighting in order to get it right x


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## kiki04

I think this is a lovely idea and how sweet of you to want to offer such a wonderful gift to families in need. You have a very kind heart :hugs:


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## Bride2b

I do think its a lovely idea. I know the hospital I gave birth in take photos if you wish. Although they are not professional. I think it would be a really nice idea as then familes can get special photos of their angels. For example some different shots the midwives may not think of. 

I think you would need to be a very strong person to do this, but if you think you can do it then I think its a wonderful thing. And its so refreshing to see someone who genuinely wants to help people xxx


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## Rairai

feeble said:


> mmm how good are you in a studio? Getting lighting right is HARD and you need to have the lighting right or your going to be giving people a picture of themselves looking rough at the worst possible time!
> 
> I would invest in a Metz hammerhead flash with TTL and a Nikon D700.
> 
> Also, how much are you planning to charge? Are you intending to make money from this?
> 
> I am a photographer (with a degree) and i also lost a baby at 23 weeks, if someone were taking photos for me, i would need them to be good basically or there would be no point x
> 
> I think its a lovely idea, but you need the know how about studio lighting in order to get it right x

Ive done a studio lighting course, but given the situation the hospital ward would have to be my studio! As per the first post, It would be on donation basis, I'm not looking to make money out of people at such a sad time... I would want some one good too! Most photographers are fussy about photos! I have a flash gun an mobile studio lights -but shoot with Canon. I disagree with editing photos beyond recognition but a few subtle tweaks will make the best of a bad situation.. I would imagine that, in this situation, the idea is to provide memories for the parents of their child, its not about looking your best? (Though I have never lost a child, so perhaps I am wrong, and all those things matter as well?) This is why I need to really look into it. x


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## blav

I think it's a beautiful idea. The hospital told us they would take photos and when we got them back it was one portrait type photo. We are glad we have it as some people don't get anything but I wish we would have gotten pictures of his hands/feet, etc. It would have been nice to have a photographer there who had a clear mind as obviously at that time, we had no idea what we should do. I think even more than portraits and things, it's nice to have more "artistic" photos. We are certainly not embarassed about Mateo, but if we had more artisitic photos of his hands/feet and things we would display them, but I feel weird about displaying his "portrait".

Just rambling...


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## feeble

Rairai said:


> feeble said:
> 
> 
> mmm how good are you in a studio? Getting lighting right is HARD and you need to have the lighting right or your going to be giving people a picture of themselves looking rough at the worst possible time!
> 
> I would invest in a Metz hammerhead flash with TTL and a Nikon D700.
> 
> Also, how much are you planning to charge? Are you intending to make money from this?
> 
> I am a photographer (with a degree) and i also lost a baby at 23 weeks, if someone were taking photos for me, i would need them to be good basically or there would be no point x
> 
> I think its a lovely idea, but you need the know how about studio lighting in order to get it right x
> 
> Ive done a studio lighting course, but given the situation the hospital ward would have to be my studio! As per the first post, It would be on donation basis, I'm not looking to make money out of people at such a sad time... I would want some one good too! Most photographers are fussy about photos! I have a flash gun an mobile studio lights -but shoot with Canon. I disagree with editing photos beyond recognition but a few subtle tweaks will make the best of a bad situation.. I would imagine that, in this situation, the idea is to provide memories for the parents of their child, its not about looking your best? (Though I have never lost a child, so perhaps I am wrong, and all those things matter as well?) This is why I need to really look into it. xClick to expand...

You sound like you know what your doing and I would say your offering a wonderful thing x 

People definitely aren't going to care about looking their best but you know if you've done a lighting course that misplaced flash can make someone look terrible... I suppose if your offering a pro service you would need to consider that (even if they weren't x) 

Best of luck to you x


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## Rairai

thats what I was thinking... Black/white pics of hands/feet, close up of mum/dads kissing baby... obviously some babies may come out with abnormalities and some parents may or may not want those in the picture... If anyone is feeling brave, and i mean BRAVE, they can have a look at 'now i lay me down to sleep' website... this is the kind of thing im thinking... though im a fan of the arty pics.. not the family ones so much... and I prefer the black and white ones..just becuase of the colour of the skin..I would take a range of styles anyway, and do some in colour, some in black and white, and let the parents decide which they would like to keep. All pics in high resolution, on a disc, within 2-3 weeks of shoot. I really WANT to do it... I think I will try to book in with a midwife and see how it goes. I understand that some people know in advance that they are going to MC. In which case I can be there for when they go in.. Only thing is I can only offer this in eves and weekends. but its better than nothing isnt it?x


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## Rairai

thank you for all your comments about it.. after the no response before I started to wonder if it was a good idea after all... but I feel better about it now. I will book an appointment and see how I get on. I think if I explain to the first few families that ive never done this kind of shoot before, hopefully they will bare with me. x


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## blav

I've looked at their website. They have a bunch of photographers in our area and I wish I had known about it before! Yes, I would say if you have anything to offer that is better than nothing! I think you're mom is right, maybe meet with a midwife or bereavement specialist at the hospital and see what they think!


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## Rairai

I am in the UK, and there is only a few here... and nothing like it locally. I would like to join the charity but you need to be available 24/7. which I cant do because I work full time in an office, and have a family so I cant offer that. x


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## Bride2b

Even if you can offer it in the evenings and weekends I think its great to have the option. It may be that the parents want photos after they have taken things in. I didnt want photos at first as I didnt know what was normal in the circumstances. One minute I was happily pregnant then the next my waters had broken & a few hours later I had given birth. At no point in this process had I considered what I would do once I had the baby. I remember looking at birthing videos on you tube and seeing a memorial film of a lady who had lost her baby. I thought that seeing this lady with her 'dead' baby was just weird & couldnt understand it. To be honest I was freaked out. I know completely understand the need for photos. This lady was obviously so proud of her little angel and obviously wanted to show him/her off. 

Anyway my point is maybe some people might want you to take photos after they have taken things in. It could be that you take photographs of the baby in a private room once the family have said their goodbyes - which could happen in the evening / weekend. There are endless opportunities.

I asked the hospital 3 weeks after if they had taken photos but they hadnt. They then took photos for me. I have his hands & feet which are lovely. They also took a portrait of him, but thats still at the hospital in my notes as I am too scared to see this one in case he looks very different to how I last saw him.

Please update us once you have decided what to do &/or after you have taken some shots xx


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## Rairai

perhaps... I was under the impression that a babies body starts to decompose quickly? This is something I would need to discuss with MW. Im happy to incorporate teddys/flowers/wings into the pictures... If I do it, I will definately share the experience here... and the pictures if the parents are happy for me to share... I normally have a disclaimer on photo shoots/weddings/bumps etc, to say I can use the pics for future clients.. but I feel this is very very different. Thank you for your help ladies, I understand this might not be the easiest subject to discuss. I really appreciate it though. x


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## Rairai

Plus, I have never seen a sleeping baby. this is also a bit scary for me. x


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## mhazzab

I think it's wonderful you are considering doing this, thank you so much. When I gave birth to my twins at 23 weeks photos were the last thing I was thinking of, the hospital offered for their photographer (I actually don't know who it was, maybe someone like you) and we were going to say no but they told us we never had to look if we didn't want to and that's what convinced us. The photos are my most treasured possession particularly the one of my two babies together. They are in soft focus, black and white and it's photos of them, and also their hands and feet, absolutely beautiful. I'm sure nobody would mind if you shed a tear, as jojo says, it shows you care about a little life lost. 
One other thing- the charity Simba are running a session for bereavement photography sometime next month, i think it's in Edinburgh so probably miles from you but perhaps you could get in touch with them to get further info ?
Thank you again...it was someone like you who gave me the most precious gift and helped me have something to remember my girls by xxxx


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## Bride2b

They do just look like they are sleeping. Well Bertie did anyway. I saw him 3 days after I had him as my friend took his hand & foot prints to make into silver, and his thumb print which I have on a pendant on my necklace, and he looked a little different. Just a little puffy around the jaw line, but some of this could have been where we has laying flat in the basket. When I held him he wasnt laying flat. The photos they took of his hands and feet were the same as when I last saw him even though they were taken 3 weeks on. He was just more pink than when he was born. xx


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## Rairai

edinburgh IS miles away... but I would go... depending on work/half term dates etc... thank you for your kind words. (I actually do the thumb print in silver thing as well- done it for quite a few friends now, made into cufflinks/pendants/keyrings etc - but thats beside the point, I dont want to turn into a bereavement arty-crafty specialist) im going to look up that course now. xxx


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## feeble

I think they keep them 'in the chiller' my sweet x


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## mhazzab

Rairai said:


> edinburgh IS miles away... but I would go... depending on work/half term dates etc... thank you for your kind words. (I actually do the thumb print in silver thing as well- done it for quite a few friends now, made into cufflinks/pendants/keyrings etc - but thats beside the point, I dont want to turn into a bereavement arty-crafty specialist) im going to look up that course now. xxx

Just checked, it's all day, 15th march, there's 5 places left. Let me know if you can't find the details and I will post a link xx


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## Nikki_d72

I think it's a lovely idea - if someone had offered this to me I probably would have done it but I wouldn't have thought of it myself. I did some photography too at art college but not enough to be able to do this kind of thing. Even with my arty eye I still didn't think of doing hand and feet shots as I was so distressed, so it would have been good to have someone else come in and think for me. I really wish I had closeup shots of feet etc, because then I'd ba able to display them at home without freaking people out. I think the biggest challenge will be keeping it together like you say, but there is nothing wrong with showing compassion, so long as you don't show a shock reaction in front of parents, that would make things worse. I saw on the website that they only do losses from 25wks I think it said - most of our losses were a lot earlier than that - from about 14wks to 24. These babies still look like babies but have no body fat yet, so are more like miniature people really. They are also most likely hairless but have finger and toenails. Because their skin is so delicate and without that under layer of fat they are quite transparent - you can usually see all their little veins under the skin (well, I could anyway) and they will mark and bruise so easily, so most will be purplish or reddish (unless born in thier sac), so B&W is probably not a bad idea. 

Thank you for putting this forward, I think it's a lovely idea and it will help a lot of families. I think too talk to the bereavement MW's and they will be able to tell you more about what to expect and maybe be able to show you photos from their files to give you more of an idea what you will be faced with for midtrimester losses as well as later ones. Beware that what you've seen, you can't unsee - this will have an impact on you, hopefully though it will make you more empathetic and you will take joy from giving this gift to others. 

GL and tell us how you get on. xx


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## Rairai

thanks for all your honesty ladies, some things i feel like i dont want to ask. And yes, mhazzab, if you could post me a link would be great! I must be blind! Looking at other courses too as well. x


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## mhazzab

Rairai said:


> thanks for all your honesty ladies, some things i feel like i dont want to ask. And yes, mhazzab, if you could post me a link would be great! I must be blind! Looking at other courses too as well. x

yeah I just had a look for it on the SiMBA website but couldn't find it either :shrug:...it's on their facebook site though. It does say it's for midwives, neonatal nurses, medical photographers and support staff so not sure if you would qualify?

If there's anything you want to ask but feel uncomfortable asking on here feel free to PM me xx

anyway, details as below

There are only 5 places left for the Bereavement Photography Training study day on the 15th March 2012, 9.15am  4.30pm, Venue: Postgraduate Education centre, Braids Seminar Room, New Royal Infirmary, Little France Crescent, Edinburgh, EH16 4SA, let me know asap if you would like a place. For midwives, neonatal nurses, medical photographers & support staff. Places on this study day are being funded by SiMBA, Simpsons Memory Box Appeal. You must pre book your place by contacting Sara Fitzsimmons 01368 860141, 07917054802 or email [email protected] for more information. www.simbacharity.org.uk. **Please only book a place in you can make it on the day**.


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## jojo23

really cant wait to hear how you get on hun. Im in Ireland and as far as im aware theres nothing at all available like this but i have a friend who is a photographer and i think ill mention it to her and see if she knows anyone who would be willing to do something similar in our local hospitals. its such an amazing idea and i really would have loved a picture of Lily but i have nothing :( it makes me so sad sometimes that i didnt get her little feet etc. 

well done hun and dont feel like you cant ask any questions, we're very honest here and are happy to answer any questions you need answered xxxxx


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## Rairai

WELL, today I have tried to contact Simba about a course they are running, but im waiting on a call back... Ive downloaded a training manual from NILMDTS, and im planning to start trawling my way through that... its pretty long! 
I will run my ideas past you ladies if thats ok, and then once ive read up and feel im 'ready' I will book to see my local MW. 
I was thinking I would put a flyer up, pretty much offering what ive said to you, and make staff aware to offer it to patients. Im not sure, but I will definately let you know how I get on! 
I was going to have a suggested donation, just to cover carpark, and fuel, and then if anyone would like to donate on top they could? Im not wanting to exploit people. x


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## jojo23

think thats a really good idea hun and im sure the hospital would give you free parking but to cover your expenses im sure you could get people to donate! well done again to you xxxxxxxxxxx any questions you know where i am


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## amanda83

Rairai said:


> thats what I was thinking... Black/white pics of hands/feet, close up of mum/dads kissing baby... obviously some babies may come out with abnormalities and some parents may or may not want those in the picture... If anyone is feeling brave, and i mean BRAVE, they can have a look at 'now i lay me down to sleep' website... this is the kind of thing im thinking... though im a fan of the arty pics.. not the family ones so much... and I prefer the black and white ones..just becuase of the colour of the skin..I would take a range of styles anyway, and do some in colour, some in black and white, and let the parents decide which they would like to keep. All pics in high resolution, on a disc, within 2-3 weeks of shoot. I really WANT to do it... I think I will try to book in with a midwife and see how it goes. I understand that some people know in advance that they are going to MC. In which case I can be there for when they go in.. Only thing is I can only offer this in eves and weekends. but its better than nothing isnt it?x

I think the idea is beautiful, it takes a special person to even think about doing this let alone actually following through on it. Having lost my baby at 22 weeks, I was obviously not in the right frame of mind to even think of having pictures done. The nurses took pictures of his feet, hands, beautiful little face, etc and I will cherish those for the rest of my life. It doesn't matter if you are a professional or using a disposable camera! The fact that someone can reach out and do something special for someone they don't even know is amazing. Best of luck :)


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## Rairai

WELL, I have applied for official training (and got a 'definately next time' from the tutor, because spaces are limited and they would like to save them for medical staff.
Fair enough, no rush..
I have sorted consent forms, a letter to send out before pics and a letter to send out with the pictures... 
I have found out that my 2nd most local hospital already has a photographer in place, so tomorrow I am going to call my most local hospital to see if they do.
Ive been reading the training manual from NILMDTS and I think i'll be ok.

I dont know what to do if they already have this service in place as well? I suppose that I could approach some of the private hospitals in the area... but I would imagine that if the NHS provides this as a service then a BUPA one would as well.. 
Other than that I have no idea how I can offer this service to people? Its not exactly something that you can advertise!! Any ideas ladies? xx


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## Bride2b

Maybe Midwife Led Units? Although these are usually attached to hospitals or pretty close by? Although I would imagine most people would end up in ordinary L&D in our situations, but I guess if their babies are born sleeping at full term they might be at a MLU

Not sure if thats of much help x


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## secretbaby

I think it is a lovely idea to offer. We only have 7 photos in total and two of them are the same but one is closer. I am lucky the one with us and our son came out beautifully (well as beautiful as such a sad moment can be). My friends who had a still birth, the hospital camera was broken that day - they had been out for a birthday meal that day and still had their own camera in my friends handbag - without that they may have missed out on the most precious photos of their daughter at and after birth. I would have loved more photos, and I was lucky the doctor was a good photographer - but could have been so different.


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## Rairai

so it might be worth offering my services as a back up! good thinking! xx


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## Rairai

Just an update if any one is following this thread... ive approached SIMBA and they are trying to arrange a training session at my local hospital so i can train alongside the staff there... not heard anything back yet but fingers crossed... im actually feeling fairly ok about this now... will update you as/when I can! x


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## collie_crazy

Good luck I hope they can sort something for you!


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## MaevesMummy

Rairai said:


> Hi ladies, I posted this previously in the general miscarriage forum but no responses.. I dont know if it is the wrong place to post this, or god forbid upset anyone... as that is not my intention at all.. I would just value some feedback...
> so here is the post...
> 
> Im really hoping this is OK to post here... Basically, I have been reading loads of posts in loads of different sections on here... Im in the WTT group... but curiousity (sorry for spelling) has led me here...
> 
> So, I have been reading your stories, and they, quite frankly, are terrifying to me. Im so sorry for all your losses, but your strength is something you all can be proud of though, you might not feel strong all the time, but trust me, you are!
> 
> I have seen that alot of people have been helped by a charity called 'now i lay me down to sleep' a photographic team that will come out to the hospital and take portrait style pictures of you and your angel baby, so you have a permanent, beautiful picture of your LO to cherish.
> 
> I do photography as a serious hobby, I looked at applying to work for this charity but the calibre of photos, and the commitment they need is more than I can offer.
> I have looked at the hospitals in the UK that this charity cover and I have seen that my two local hospitals are not served by them.
> 
> My thinking is this... Should I offer my services in my local hospital? I do not know if I could face any of you and not cry along with you? I dont know if I, strong enough to do that? BUT at the same time, I believe in the beauty of photos, and I believe that they have some healing power... I would love to give, what I consider a wonderful gift, to a family in need, but I dont know really a) if that service would be appreciated by families, and b) if i could hold it together in order to create something for you.
> 
> I would like to add that I would offer this on a free/donation basis, im NOT looking to make money on this, or to exploit anyone. Just to try to do a good deed for someone
> 
> I would really appreciate any thoughts you have on the matter.
> Much love to you all. Rachel x

Yes very much so. Amazing idea. Go for it! :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Rairai

Well, Im still waiting for a training date with SIMBA to be available that I can attend (My work is very demanding) 
HOWEVER! I have approached my local hospital myself and I have a meeting with the bereavement midwife to show her my photos and discuss the possibility of working with them. 
Im sort of excited, sort of anxious... but I did promise you all an update! so here you go! will update if anything more changes! xxx


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