# Lillebaby carrier



## DarlingMe

We originally registered for a Baby Bjorn. After reading the negative reviews for LO posture, lower weight limit, and seeing that you cant back carry I started looking at an Ergo. Then I see that the Ergo you cant face outward, only inward. There is another company called Lillebaby that appears to be a decent carrier that is front, back, or side carry; and inward or outward facing. I dont think I have ever heard anyone mention them. Has anyone used one or heard of one? I know the Ergos have a good reputation but I am wondering specifically about this Lillebaby brand?? Thanks! 

https://www.amazon.com/Lillebaby-Po...l. I would definately recommend this carrier!


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## freckleonear

Facing outwards isn't recommended. It doesn't support the baby's hips, spine or neck properly and it doesn't allow them to turn away from stimulation. Also the weight distribution will make the carrier more uncomfortable for you. That's why most good carriers like the Ergo don't provide a facing out position. Carriers that can be used on your hip or back are a good alternative for nosy babies, allowing baby to have a good view but still keeping an anatomically correct position and allowing them to snuggle in for cuddles if needed. :)


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## DarlingMe

This carrier is safety recommeded. And also recommends the lotus positioning on their site for outward facing. I understand the outward facing isnt ideal but is a nice option. They also have an optional removable "face shield". I think after a few months age, facing forward stimulation is no different than a stroller.


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## lozzy21

Facing out in a good carrier provides the same support that facing inward in a baby bjorn does. Not very good. If your wanting baby to see then a hip carrys are good for that.


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## Aunty E

Well now the never-face-outwards gang have had their say, I think it looks nice. :roll: My OH generally uses his Bjorn active with Teddy, and if he gets sleepy, he just turns him back round again. It's not as comfortable as facing in and you can't do it for as long, but sometimes it's a really handy option for a wriggly little monster who likes to nose about. Imogen was carried forwards facing a fair bit as a medium sized baby, but once they get to about nine months, it's hip, back or parent facing time! Her spine and hips seem fine btw ;)


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## aliss

I know you are in the US and it's less common, but is there any sling meetup group within a decent radius of your home? I would suggest going to that, or a natural parenting store, and trying on several different slings.

As for facing out, that's what kangaroo carry or back carry is for. Babies, IMO, should be given a chance to hide away from stimulation if they need to.


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## fluffpuffin

It looks lie a nice sling, though I think from the reviews a lot of people think the ergo is more comfy than this one. I haven't tried though so can't compare. But it seems very versatile, so I would say go for it if that's what you like the look of.


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## DarlingMe

Thanks ladies. I like he carrier b/c I have the option of carrying whichever way I choose to. Again after a few months old I really don't see how facing out is any different than a stroller or a toddler even walking next to you. Again I appreciate the help but I really can find ANY medical research stating that facing out (after 4 months) is unsafe or unhealthy. 

Btw way this carrier has a wide carry option for inward facing and infant cradling, and a thinner option belt comparable to the "not so desirable" baby bjorn. I found a couple video reviews and it is essentially an Ergo with more options.


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## patch2006uk

Taken from the Lillebaby amazon page:

Front face out

At 4-5 months most babies want to face forward.If forced to face in, they will naturally twist their neck and spine to face forward, risking injuries. Forward facing allows for bonding and for your baby to take part in the surroundings.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true! My 6 month old is more than happy parent facing and doesn't twist his spine cos the sling doesn't allow his spine to twist! The dodgy info on forward facing is shocking!


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## lozzy21

patch2006uk said:


> Taken from the Lillebaby amazon page:
> 
> Front face out
> 
> At 4-5 months most babies want to face forward.If forced to face in, they will naturally twist their neck and spine to face forward, risking injuries. Forward facing allows for bonding and for your baby to take part in the surroundings.
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just not true! My 6 month old is more than happy parent facing and doesn't twist his spine cos the sling doesn't allow his spine to twist! The dodgy info on forward facing is shocking!

WTF? My daughter is nearly 8 months and still likes to face in, she may look around if she hears something but certainly doesent twist her spine.


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## aliss

lozzy21 said:


> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> Taken from the Lillebaby amazon page:
> 
> Front face out
> 
> At 4-5 months most babies want to face forward.If forced to face in, they will naturally twist their neck and spine to face forward, risking injuries. Forward facing allows for bonding and for your baby to take part in the surroundings.
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just not true! My 6 month old is more than happy parent facing and doesn't twist his spine cos the sling doesn't allow his spine to twist! The dodgy info on forward facing is shocking!
> 
> WTF? My daughter is nearly 8 months and still likes to face in, she may look around if she hears something but certainly doesent twist her spine.Click to expand...

Maybe it's the zealous babywearer in me, but I wouldn't support a carrier/company that offers FFO option personally. I know some prefer to use that position, and while I disagree it is their right, but a company that promotes FFO *AND* misinformation about _proper babywearing_ is an automatic cut on my list.


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## lozzy21

aliss said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> Taken from the Lillebaby amazon page:
> 
> Front face out
> 
> At 4-5 months most babies want to face forward.If forced to face in, they will naturally twist their neck and spine to face forward, risking injuries. Forward facing allows for bonding and for your baby to take part in the surroundings.
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just not true! My 6 month old is more than happy parent facing and doesn't twist his spine cos the sling doesn't allow his spine to twist! The dodgy info on forward facing is shocking!
> 
> WTF? My daughter is nearly 8 months and still likes to face in, she may look around if she hears something but certainly doesent twist her spine.Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe it's the zealous babywearer in me, but I wouldn't support a carrier/company that offers FFO option personally. I know some prefer to use that position, and while I disagree it is their right, but a company that promotes FFO *AND* misinformation about _proper babywearing_ is an automatic cut on my list.Click to expand...

I agree completely If people have done there own reaserch and still decide to face babys out thats their choice but people trust these companys and assume they have their babys best interests in mind when realy its just about money.


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## DarlingMe

I still can't find ANY research stating an infant older than 4 months should not face out.... Also this company is the only company to offer a wide carry for forward facing seat. But either way, as a registered nurse I can't find anything research stating not to forward face. I think this is advice that was given for a newborn that has gotten misused over the years....


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## aliss

With all due respect, sometimes you need to look beyond PubMed and look at the common sense of it - if you are 4+ months, and you are facing forward, and you are tired, your head is going to dangle forward rather than rest back on your mother's chest or back. If you are overstimulated by your surroundings, you cannot turn away. I have worn my boy since day 2 for several hours daily, he is now 13 months, I've got almost a dozen slings including a Baby Bjorn. I've tried them all. Believe me, you can get much better slings than that.

Have you ever read https://www.thebabywearer.com ? It is a massive website about babywearing. Companies that want to sell you a sling will tell you that FFO is good. People who teach babywearing and who have born many babies for many years will say that there are far more ideal options that are more comfortable for babies and for your back. Make of that what you will and do what you want.

There's really no point in buying a sling that can't be used for back carry if you want to wear at 4+ months anyways. Get your money's worth.


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## lozzy21

If it wasent bad then why would some companys state they dont advise it when they could be missing out on customers because of this?


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## Aunty E

Its perfectly obvious when Teddy is tired and wants to parent face and when he's feeling nosy and wants to face out. That's a bit of a daft argument frankly. And not everybody wears their baby that much - mine get worn to go out to the park or for the occasional day's shopping, it's not a lifestyle choice as such and so I don't worry all that much about being able to wear either of them for hours and hours. The information on the website stating that forward facing is better seems a bit shonky, but I still think it's a useful option to have sometimes. Generally if you get on with carrying them you end up with diffferent slings for different things anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about multifunctional carriers.


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## DarlingMe

So u ladies never forward face in a stroller? B/c "common sense" As a mother tells me, if my child is 8 inches in front of me facing me or not, I am going to help him deAl with "over stimulation". Your child cannot hide in your bosom forever. 

Again, as another poster stated, it is about money. Some companies don't offer a forward facing carrier, so they are going to jump aboard the don't face forward wagon. I am just saying show me the research, a professional article, a case where a child has poor hip development; something besides word of mouth. If it is so obvious that they shouldn't forward face producing something other than a company promoting product shouldn't be hard to do.


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## lozzy21

Acutaly no i dont have her facing foward in a pram she faces me.

I use a wrap and you can face baby foward in a wrap but the brand i use dont recommend it as baby isent in a ergonomic position.


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## patch2006uk

A few quotes I've found following a quick google


Roy M. Nuzzo, MD, FAAOS,FAAOP, POSNA, New Jersey, USA

Cultures that carry babies with the child&#8217;s legs spread apart, such as riding on the mother&#8217;s hip, have, by far, the lowest incidence of hips that go on to be bad. African mothers have the best track record of all. Their protective way of carrying babies is unbeaten &#8211; held in an open-legged position by a sling-bandana. Cultures that wrap legs together in one way or another (swaddling, etc.) just plain destroy hips. Swaddling of children leads to waddling adults.

Prof. Dr. med. Büschelberger (Dresden)

&#8220;The head of the thighbone in a newborn is ideally orientated towards the hip socket &#8211; and thus fills it out evenly-when the legs are pulled up to approx. 100 degrees and spread approx. 40 degrees at the same time.

When infants are picked up they take up this posture spontaneously and therefore it has to co-operate with their anatomic conditions.

As well, the rounded back (kyphosis) doesn&#8217;t stretch out immediately after birth. On the contrary, the well-known double-s-form of the spine is developing fully at the beginning of self-supported walking.

These anatomic conditions, together with the palmar grasp reflex of the first days in life, suggest that infants are especially adapted to being carried on our body.

Thus, it is possible to make a statement about the ideal carrying position: with wide-spread,flexed legs, slightly rounded back and orientated towards the carrying adult."

And a crap-load of references from an article about babywearing

SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH

Perinatol, J. (1991). Current knowledge about skin-to-skin (kangaroo) care for pre-term infants. Journal of Perinatology 11(3), 216-226.

Anisfeld, E., Casper, V., Nozyce, M., & Cunningham, N. (1990). Does infant carrying promote attachment? An experimental study of the effects of increased physical contact on the development of attachment.

Hunziker, U. A., & Barr, R. G. (1986). Increased carrying reduces infant crying: A randomized controlled trial. Pediatrics, 77(5): 641-648.

Barr, R., et al. (1991). Crying in !Kung San infants. Developmental Medicine and Child Neurology, 33, 601-610.

Bergman, N. J., Linley, L. L., & Fawcus, S. R. (2004). Randomized controlled trial of skin-to-skin contact from birth versus conventional incubator for physiological stabilization in 1200- to 2199-gram newborns. Acta Paediatrica, 93, 779-785.

Carter, S. C. (1998). Neuroendocrine perspectives on social attachment and love. Psychoneuroendocrinology, 23, 779-818.

Charpak, N., Ruiz-Pelaez, J. G., Figueroa, Z., & Charpak, Y. (1997). Kangaroo mother versus traditional care for newborn infants <2000 grams: A randomized, controlled trial. Pediatrics, 100(4), 682-688.

Chomosky, N.(1998). Language and problems of knowledge. Cambridge: MIT Press.

K Christensson, T Cabrera, E Christensson, K Uvnäs&#8211;Moberg, J Winberg, Karolinska (1995) Separation distress call in the human neonate in the absence of maternal body contact

Christensson, K., Siles, C., Moreno, L., Belaustequi, A., de la Fuente, P., Lagercrantz, H., Puyol, P., & Winberg, J. (1992). Temperature, metabolic adaptation and crying in healthy full-term newborns cared for skin-to-skin or in a cot. Acta Paediatrica, 81, 488-493.

Douglas, P. S. (2005). Excessive crying and gastro-oesophageal reflux disease in infants: Misalignment of biology and culture. Journal Title, volume(issue), page numbers.

Durand, R., Hodges, S., LaRock, S., Lund, L., Schmid, S. Swick, D., et al. (1997). The effect of skin-to-skin breast-feeding in the immediate recovery period on newborn thermoregulation and blood glucose values. Neonatal Intensive Care, 10, 23-29.

Ruth Feldman 1 , Aron Weller 1 , James F. Leckman 2 , Jacob Kuint 3 & Arthur I. Eidelman (1994) The Nature of the Mother&#8217;s Tie to Her Infant: Maternal Bonding under Conditions of Proximity, Separation,and Potential Loss

Gerber, M. (1958). The psycho-motor development of african children in the first year and the influence of maternal behavior. Journal of Social Psychology, 47, 185-195.

Gray, L., Watt, L., & Blass, E. M. (2000). Skin-to-skin contact is analgesic in healthy newborns. Pediatrics, 105, 14.

Hensinger, R. N. (1989). Spondylolysis and Spondylolisthesis in children and adolescents. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, 71A, 1098-1107.

Insel, T. R. (1997). A neurobiological basis of social attachment. American Journal of Psychiatry, 154, 726-735.

Lamb, M. E. (1982). Individual differences in infant sociability: Their origins and implications for cognitive development. In H.W. Reese & L. P. Lipsitt (Eds.), Advances in child development and behavior (Vol. 16, pp. 213-239). New York: Academic.

Landau, R. (1982) Infant crying and fussing: Findings from a cross-cultural study. Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology, 13, 427-444.

Littlefield, T. R. (2003). Car seats, infant carriers, and swings: Their role in deformational plagiocephaly. Journal of Prosthetics & Orthotics, 15(3), 102-106.

Ludington-Hoe, S. M., Lewis, T., Morgan, K., Cong, X., Anderson, L., & Reese, S. (2006). Breast-infant temperature synchrony with twins during shared Kangaroo Care. Journal of Obstetric, Gynecologic, and Neonatal Nursing, 35, 1-9.

Messmer, P. R., Rodriguez, S., Adams, J., Gentry, J. W., Washburn, K., Zabaleta, I., & Abreu, S. (1997). Effect of Kangaroo care on sleep time for neonates. Pediatric Nursing, 23(4), 408-414.

Meyer, K., & Anderson, G. C. (1999). Using kangaroo care in a clinical setting with full-term infants having breastfeeding difficulties. American Journal of Maternal Child Nursing, 24, 190-192.

Moore ER, Anderson GC, Bergman N. (2007) Early skin-to-skin contact for mothers and their healthy newborn infants.

Pelaez-Nogueras, M., Field, T. M., Hossain, Z., & Pickens, J. (1996). Depressed mothers&#8217;touching increases infants&#8217; positive affect and attention in still-face interactions. Child Development, 67, 1780-1792.

Schmid, S., Swick, D., Yates, T., & Perez, A. (1997). The effect of skin-to-skin breast-feeding in the immediate recovery period on newborn thermoregulation and blood glucose values. Neonatal Intensive Care, 10, 23-29.

Schön, R., & Silvén, M. (2007). Natural parentingundefinedBack to basics in infant care. Evolutionary Psychology, 5(1), 102-183. https://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep05102183.pdf

Tessier R., Cristo, M., Velez, S., Giron, M., Ruiz-Palaez, J. G., Charpak, Y., et al. (1998). Kangaroo mother care and the bonding hypothesis. Pediatrics, 102:17.

Wahlberg, V., Affonso, D., & Persson, B. (1992). A retrospective comparative study using the kangaroo method as a complement to standard incubator care. European Journal of Public Health, 2(1), 34-37.

Wall-Scheffler, C. M., Geiger K., & Steudel-Numbers, K. L. (2007). Infant carrying: The role of increased locomotory costs in early tool development.

Skin contact (kangaroo care) shortly after birth on the neurobehavioral responses of the term newborn: a randomized, controlled trial. Pediatrics 113(4):858-65.

I just think that I wouldn't want to to hung by my crotch dangling off someone's chest personally, so why would my baby want to be in that position? You probably won't carry your LO for long enough to do any harm (if indeed you believe FFO causes harm anyway) but to have 15lbs and above hanging away from your body and screwing with your centre of gravity may well do you some harm!


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## patch2006uk

Haha, I seriously didn't realise how long that list of references was, sorry to thread-hog!


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## DarlingMe

aliss said:


> With all due respect, sometimes you need to look beyond PubMed and look at the common sense of it - if you are 4+ months, and you are facing forward, and you are tired, your head is going to dangle forward rather than rest back on your mother's chest or back. If you are overstimulated by your surroundings, you cannot turn away. I have worn my boy since day 2 for several hours daily, he is now 13 months, I've got almost a dozen slings including a Baby Bjorn. I've tried them all. Believe me, you can get much better slings than that.
> 
> Have you ever read https://www.thebabywearer.com ? It is a massive website about babywearing. Companies that want to sell you a sling will tell you that FFO is good. People who teach babywearing and who have born many babies for many years will say that there are far more ideal options that are more comfortable for babies and for your back. Make of that what you will and do what you want.
> 
> There's really no point in buying a sling that can't be used for back carry if you want to wear at 4+ months anyways. Get your money's worth.

The sling I am questioning has a back carry option with a max weight of 42 lbs.


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## DarlingMe

https://www.thebabywearer.com/index.php?page=carpos

"The Buddha Carry. Once your baby becomes more inquisitive and adventurous, he will probably enjoy facing out to see the world, at least some of the time. This is sometimes called the Kangaroo Carry, although you may also see that term referring to a carry with the baby facing in. To avoid confusion I will use the term Buddha Carry. You can achieve a Buddha Carry with a sling, pouch, rebozo, wraparound carrier (using a wrap cross carry) or an Asian-style soft carrier with extra straps (or long straps) as for the newborn upright position."

They also sell this carrier in their amazon store. I am not promoting this carrier one way or another, but I was simply looking for some user info to see who has used it. This carrier is JPMA certified and has won other awards as well.


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## aliss

Sorry, I did not realize there was a back carry, bad me for not reading well!!!

I do stand by my comments about not encouraging FFO but as I always say, any babywearing is better than no babywearing, IMO.

I don't think anyone here has used that carrier, or if they have, they have not mentioned so.

As for the budda carry, yes, there are ways for a baby to face out, but it still allows them the ability to tuck back in if they need to (ie. KANGAROO carry in a wrap) and can rest their heads on you when tired. This is not the same as this kind of carriers forward facing.

Good luck with your decision


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## Charliemarina

DarlingMe said:


> https://www.thebabywearer.com/index.php?page=carpos
> 
> "The Buddha Carry. Once your baby becomes more inquisitive and adventurous, he will probably enjoy facing out to see the world, at least some of the time. This is sometimes called the Kangaroo Carry, although you may also see that term referring to a carry with the baby facing in. To avoid confusion I will use the term Buddha Carry. You can achieve a Buddha Carry with a sling, pouch, rebozo, wraparound carrier (using a wrap cross carry) or an Asian-style soft carrier with extra straps (or long straps) as for the newborn upright position."
> 
> They also sell this carrier in their amazon store. I am not promoting this carrier one way or another, but I was simply looking for some user info to see who has used it. This carrier is JPMA certified and has won other awards as well.


hey hunny, i also believe babies like to see outward and if over stimulation occurs that can easily be sorted by turning baby back around, i dont use that type of sling, i use moby wraps and ring slings, once my LO is big enough to FFO then i will be using the Buddha carry, iv never seen that make of sling before but it does look comfortable for u and bubba, ultimately its ur choice hunny wat sling u get and how u hold baby, i would defo recommend a ring sling or moby wrap there so comfy and "spine friendly" wen used correctly :)


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