# CoQ10 - Pre-Seed - Perfume - Trisomy 18 - BFP - Surrogacy - Paragard and More



## ThunderCat

I just got my BFP today at 9DPO. I'm happy, but not excited yet. Not until I see a heartbeat. This is my first post to any internet site about pregnancy, though I have read SO many stories on this site and others for years while I TTC'd and conceived in the past. This time, I felt I should start sharing. 

After an insane journey of loss, this month was the first time I tried supplements beyond the pre-natal. We lost our daughter in January to Trisomy 18, born by my egg and my husband's sperm via a surrogate. She was our first born and 3rd pregnancy loss. I carried the first 2. During the surrogacy, I had a copper paragard put in, so there'd be no chance of overlapping pregnancies. That paragard was extremely painful and a disgusting mess, by the way. I had it taken out in the middle of January and had one cycle between then and now. This has been my first month trying again and it seems that either all these supplements are working, or I just got really lucky my first month after our horrible loss. 

I wasn't sure I'd be mentally in any frame of mind to conceive after we lost our DD, but somehow, I've managed. I'm so nervous. It's hard to do this all over again. I told my husband and he answered, "I'll believe it after she's born healthy." I'm sad to say, I completely understand his sentiments. I want to be excited again, but I also don't want to be foolish and have what little is left of our hearts, destroyed. We've had all our genetic testing. We are not carriers for anything and we are from diverse genetic backgrounds. We've just been a unlucky, they say. Ugh... I do know now, the signs to look for in early pregnancy and on ultrasound scans and serum tests. I've done TONS of research about improving egg quality. My dear friend is a genetic scientist and has just had an AMAZING healthy HUGE baby, her first, at 40 and gave me all their secrets. One big thing I was told was to stop wearing perfume. I don't see enough people talking about that. My friend's husband, who researches this VERY subject all day and night, says that it is a HUGE factor for infertility in their clinical studies. I'm shocked there isn't more talk of it. 

I'm very excited to already have HCG levels detected at 9DPO! I'm thinking I'm about 15 miu. I tested positive on a 12.5 stick and then BARELY positive on the 20 miu stick. So, I'm somewhere in between. Having a BFP this early is TOTALLY new for me :) With our DD born Trisomy 18 via surrogate, her first beta test came back looking like she was triplets, when she turned out to be a singleton. I know now that TOO high of HCG isn't a perfect sign unless there are multiples in there. I assumed that the other eggs we implanted had taken then vanished, causing the high HCG, but now I know that it was our first clue toward T-18. So far, charting everything this month, researching ways to improve egg quality and having an early BFP right on the mark, is so nice. I'm staying as positive as I can. 

So, to stay on an optimistic note, this month, I added CoQ10, Melatonin, extra Zinc (to counteract the Copper that may have still been in the uterus from the paragard) and Pre-seed. I did the Melatonin for the 2 weeks prior to ovulation and took CoQ10 and zinc, also extra B complex, CLEAN Fish Oil with DHA, and a little pre-seed internally (not as much as recommended) the whole time leading up to ovulation. I stopped the melatonin a few days before Ovulation, but maintained the rest. I've just added Iodine with Kelp and Dhea, but only just now, so those have nothing to do with my BFP. I also quit caffeine, (SOOOO HARD!) which I usually drink RELIGIOUSLY. I've only been exercising three times a week, walking and with a balance ball. Nothing intense. I also changed my home office lights to full spectrum lights. That was something I read about as well that isn't mentioned enough. You can look up the research regarding fertility in the winter with people in countries where there isn't much sun. There is a undeniable connection. I am also a pescatarian, FYI (A vegetarian who eats fish) which I thought was a problem, but have done extensive studying and found that it isn't as long as your supplements and protein intake are well monitored. 

Best of luck and "Baby Dust" as they say here, to you all. I've been soaking up a good amount of info in this process. If anyone has any questions, about anything above, I'm happy to answer. I am NOT a doctor, and I don't intend to play one on the internet. So, I can only give you MY impression and instinct based on MY experiences.


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## crystal443

Congrats ThunderCat, I hope this your sticky bean:hugs:


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## peacebaby

Welcome :flower: and sorry for your losses. A loss is always tragic and three times is a lot to go through :hugs:

Congratulations on your BFP and wishing you all the very best for a healthy, sticky bean and a H&H 9 months.

Thank you for sharing the information on the supplements etc.

I'm interested in the issue with perfume - did your friends husband mention what the actual issue is or how it is related to fertility?

Re: the lights - I read that home lighting has some effect on ovulation, is that what you were referring to?

Yes, pure, good quality fish oil is now being recommended by reproductive immunologists like Dr Bravermann (NY), Dr Shehata (UK) and I believe the Dr Beer Centre as well.

Good luck and :dust:


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## ThunderCat

Oh, thank you! Regarding the Perfume, I asked what it was specifically, and he said they were still researching it. He's part of an Ivy league University's research center here in NY. I can't mention the name. He said they just know by the clinical studies that perfumes are directly related to infertility... ?? Perhaps we'll hear more about it later, once they figure out what is in perfumes that does it. I asked him about incense and he said, not incense (considering how much is used in India, and they don't seem to have fertility problems) but store bought perfume. Also, the lights, yes, affecting ovulation, exactly. I am referring to the "full spectrum" light bulbs. You can get them at hardware stores. I got mine on amazon. Helps with mood enhancement too, they say. So far, so good. I figured, since it's winter (ish) I may as well counter-act the clouds with more full spectrum sunlight bulbs. Almost all major light bulb companies make a full spectrum of some sort. They are a bit duller than most bulbs, so be sure you get the right wattage. Anyhow, yes, one must make sure the fish oil is clean. Ugh, I've read the horrors about the contaminated fish oil supplements a few years ago. So sad. My favorite thing so far has been the melatonin the first 11 CDs up until ovulation. It helped me relax and sleep well. I think that has helped. I can get pretty high strung. I also helps with egg quality, but can mess with ovulation if you don't stop taking it to let your body do whole surge and everything. I took it the whole month prior while I wasn't TTC'ing, but I used an OPT that month to start tracking, and I ovulated fine, even though I was taking the melatonin. That was the month I had the copper paragard taken out, so I wouldn't have been able to conceive that month anyway. Anyhow, I'm blabbing. Big hug to you and tons of baby dust!


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## Omi

I dont know anything about perfume generally in relation to ttc but while doing ivf i was told not to wear anything with any perfume when doing egg collection and also when transferring the embryos as they (eggs/embryos) apparently 'dont like' it. No idea as to what and why but i certainly headed this advice.

Good luck hun and all the best! :hug: xx

ps, before treatment (due to age and low egg reserve i wanted to boost my chances and have better quality eggs before treatment) i also took q10 and DHA. I also took l'arginine :) I'll start on these again shortly as i plan to ttc au naturale again shortly ;p


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## Briss

Congratulations! thanks for sharing, this gives us all hope

contaminated fish oil supplements? how would you know which ones are contaminated? I buy this one https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=146 are they ok to take?

Interesting about perfume, who would have thought....

how did you manage to quit coffee? I am not human until I have my morning latte I did try to quit many times but the result is counterproductive as I become so irritable and generally depressed all day long that not sure what does more harm


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## Omi

Briss, that one's fine and the one i took before and during pg. Both fertility clinic and midwives said that one is fine as DHA and not just regular fish oil (too much vit a is bad for ttc and while pg).


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## peacebaby

Congratulations on the birth of your little boy Omi!

The vitamin A that is a risk for ttc and pregnancy is retinol (so products like Retin-A, Roaccutane) not the natural occuring form.


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## heavenly

I wish you a healthy and happy 9 months. :flower:

I am rattling with all the supplements! :wacko:

Pregnacare Conception
Royal Jelly
Bee Propolis
CO Q10
DHEA
Naturally Sourced Omega 3 & 6
L'Arginine
Selenium


I don't drink caffeine and I don't wear perfume, every little helps I suppose. :winkwink:


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## ThunderCat

Briss said:


> Congratulations! thanks for sharing, this gives us all hope
> 
> contaminated fish oil supplements? how would you know which ones are contaminated? I buy this one
> Interesting about perfume, who would have thought....
> 
> how did you manage to quit coffee? I am not human until I have my morning latte I did try to quit many times but the result is counterproductive as I become so irritable and generally depressed all day long that not sure what does more harm

I can't tell if the brand you have is purified or not. I'm sure that if you've bought it recently, it would be. There were extremely high levels of PCBs, Mercury and other metal toxins in the previous batches in the states a few years ago that were harmful. I'm sure these are fine. The ones in the states here say "purified" now because of the recall. I switched to a decaf that was water processed (again, another thing to watch out for. Some are chemically decaffeinated) I started by just doing half and half of reg and de caf, then went completely off reg. It kept me super sleepy and a little depressed too, I must say :( I think the sleepy part was okay, as it slowed me down and made me rest, rather than run around like a headless chicken. I started taking calcium/mag with Vit D and Boron at night before bed and that helps balance me out. I'm a BIG fan of this new tradition. One tablespoon of Cal/Mag at night before bed. Sleep like a baby and the GI system works like CLOCKWORK now. :) At about 6 DPO, added a tiny bit of reg back into the mix to give me a little get up and go, but not much. It's amazing how far a little goes now that I've lowered my tolerance. I LOVE my morning coffee, so I do all my bells and whistles, two cubes of sugar and my whipped up half and half, some vanilla extract and a pinch of pumpkin pie spice. HA HA! I call this "Breakfast" OH, that reminds me. I read another study that had undeniable reason to believe that women who chose a little "full fat" dairy product in their diets had a MUCH higher fertility success rate than women who chose "low-fat" or "non-fat" I was thrilled to find that study and stuck to my morning half and half in my coffee. I don't have much dairy otherwise, ... so, moderation, of coures, but a little "Full fat" is good, for some reason... ? 

Best wishes and baby dust to you :)


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## ThunderCat

heavenly said:


> I wish you a healthy and happy 9 months. :flower:
> 
> I am rattling with all the supplements! :wacko:
> 
> Pregnacare Conception
> Royal Jelly
> Bee Propolis
> CO Q10
> DHEA
> Naturally Sourced Omega 3 & 6
> L'Arginine
> Selenium
> 
> 
> I don't drink caffeine and I don't wear perfume, every little helps I suppose. :winkwink:

Urg, well, just stick to it. Did your doctor give you this list? Are you catching your surge on the OPTs?


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## heavenly

ThunderCat said:


> heavenly said:
> 
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 9 months. :flower:
> 
> I am rattling with all the supplements! :wacko:
> 
> Pregnacare Conception
> Royal Jelly
> Bee Propolis
> CO Q10
> DHEA
> Naturally Sourced Omega 3 & 6
> L'Arginine
> Selenium
> 
> 
> I don't drink caffeine and I don't wear perfume, every little helps I suppose. :winkwink:
> 
> Urg, well, just stick to it. Did your doctor give you this list? Are you catching your surge on the OPTs?Click to expand...

My GP was no use. FS just said Pregnacare Conception. My acupuncturist said about the Omega and the CO Q10, nurse at the fertility clinic said about the DHEA, the rest of it I read on various fertility sites and forums.

I am 46 and have been TTC for 4 years. FS has put me on Clomid for 4 cycles, have just started my 3rd cycle. I am ovulating on it. I had a scan the first cycle, I use the CBFM and also check my CM.

But I know it's down to my age really, so getting my AMH done and will be looking at the IVF DE route probably if nothing happens in the next 2 months - have to be realistic, using my own eggs will give me a less than 5% chance of success.


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## faithmum

Thanks for sharing your story Thundercat. I'm so sorry about your loss and can completely understand your guarded optimism. Just keep those positive feelings flowing through you. 

You know what's funny is that parfume really bothers me around Ovuation time. Mine smells too strong, his smells like he's wearing the entire bottle. Well I should be right around O time so now I feeling like going home and showering!! I am certainly going to stop wearing it - until you wrote it I didn't tie in my aversion but now I'm going to honor that. 

Thanks for sharing that! 

As for me: I am ancient in the baby world at 45 so am very nervous about conceiving. This will be #4 for me. I've got DS 14 and DS and DD 13


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## l8bloomer

That's interesting info re: the perfume. When I got my fertility clinic appointment, they told me that their clinic is scent free and to make sure that DH and I don't wear ANY scent. I just thought that was because some people are sensitive to perfumes but now, it makes sense. 

I wonder if this applies to ALL scented products...deodorant, moisturizers, etc


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## peacebaby

Yeah I wondered the same thing.

Thundercat, pumpkin spice in morning coffee...:coffee: sounds so good, yum. I'm going to have look for some here now!


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## ThunderCat

Yeah, strange they mention no perfume during assisted fertility, but don't mention it to TTCers otherwise ... ? 

Heavenly, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, but that's great that you are ovulating! Hmm.. I know it may sound too easy, but perhaps try a little pre-seed while BDing... Have you tried that yet? 

Also, I've read mixed things about L'Arginine... Why not try the pre-seed for lubrication assistance instead of L'Arginine... I thought it was GREAT! I got mine off amazon :) 

Oh, I'll be hoping the best for you. Tons of baby dust to you all!


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## Natsby

Congrats Thundercat! I know what you mean about tentatively happy, I got this BFP after two mc in the last three years and I know i won´t relax until I see a heart beat. I was taking CoQ10 and high doses of vitamin C as well as my prenatal vits.I put OH on the same as his morphology was so poor we were told we only had a max of 8% possibility of conceiving naturally. I had IUI booked for next month and got my bfp without it this month. 
I didn´t take DHEA because it can do more harm than good if your eggs are not identified as having problems. Your research sounds interesting, I find it difficult because the internet holds so many peoples opinions. Just trying to find out what herbal teas I can drink now found me a whole range of conflicting advice. Having conceived are you still avoiding perfume?
I hope this is your forever baby, in case your interested there is a very good hypnosis here on pregnancy after loss which I am finding very helpful.https://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/pregnancy-childbirth/pregnancy-miscarriage


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## heavenly

ThunderCat said:


> Heavenly, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, but that's great that you are ovulating! Hmm.. I know it may sound too easy, but perhaps try a little pre-seed while BDing... Have you tried that yet?
> 
> Also, I've read mixed things about L'Arginine... Why not try the pre-seed for lubrication assistance instead of L'Arginine... I thought it was GREAT! I got mine off amazon :)
> 
> Oh, I'll be hoping the best for you. Tons of baby dust to you all!

We are using Conceive Plus. x


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## peacebaby

Natsby said:


> Congrats Thundercat! I know what you mean about tentatively happy, I got this BFP after two mc in the last three years and I know i won´t relax until I see a heart beat. I was taking CoQ10 and high doses of vitamin C as well as my prenatal vits.I put OH on the same as his morphology was so poor we were told we only had a max of 8% possibility of conceiving naturally. I had IUI booked for next month and got my bfp without it this month.
> I didn´t take DHEA because it can do more harm than good if your eggs are not identified as having problems. Your research sounds interesting, I find it difficult because the internet holds so many peoples opinions. Just trying to find out what herbal teas I can drink now found me a whole range of conflicting advice. Having conceived are you still avoiding perfume?
> I hope this is your forever baby, in case your interested there is a very good hypnosis here on pregnancy after loss which I am finding very helpful.https://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/pregnancy-childbirth/pregnancy-miscarriage

Hi Nats 
Hope you're well :hugs: I'm so thrilled for you and have a positive feeling for you! It's just so amazing that it's happened right before your planned IUI. 

Thanks for the hypnosis link - i've bookmarked it for future reference, lol an act of sheer PMA! I'm using a similar audio for stress release, finding it quite helpful. With herbal teas I was told to stick with something like nettle leaf as it is loaded with Vits, maybe check with your naturopath? 

I've been looking into the perfume issue. So it seems the issue is the chemicals used to mimmick natural scents like musk etc are stored in the body and can be hormone inhibitors. The same with the "phthalates" that carry the scent. 

As for avoiding perfume during pregnancy:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7590641.stm


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## Briss

ThunderCat said:


> Briss said:
> 
> 
> Congratulations! thanks for sharing, this gives us all hope
> 
> contaminated fish oil supplements? how would you know which ones are contaminated? I buy this one
> Interesting about perfume, who would have thought....
> 
> how did you manage to quit coffee? I am not human until I have my morning latte I did try to quit many times but the result is counterproductive as I become so irritable and generally depressed all day long that not sure what does more harm
> 
> I can't tell if the brand you have is purified or not. I'm sure that if you've bought it recently, it would be. There were extremely high levels of PCBs, Mercury and other metal toxins in the previous batches in the states a few years ago that were harmful. I'm sure these are fine. The ones in the states here say "purified" now because of the recall. I switched to a decaf that was water processed (again, another thing to watch out for. Some are chemically decaffeinated) I started by just doing half and half of reg and de caf, then went completely off reg. It kept me super sleepy and a little depressed too, I must say :( I think the sleepy part was okay, as it slowed me down and made me rest, rather than run around like a headless chicken. I started taking calcium/mag with Vit D and Boron at night before bed and that helps balance me out. I'm a BIG fan of this new tradition. One tablespoon of Cal/Mag at night before bed. Sleep like a baby and the GI system works like CLOCKWORK now. :) At about 6 DPO, added a tiny bit of reg back into the mix to give me a little get up and go, but not much. It's amazing how far a little goes now that I've lowered my tolerance. I LOVE my morning coffee, so I do all my bells and whistles, two cubes of sugar and my whipped up half and half, some vanilla extract and a pinch of pumpkin pie spice. HA HA! I call this "Breakfast" OH, that reminds me. I read another study that had undeniable reason to believe that women who chose a little "full fat" dairy product in their diets had a MUCH higher fertility success rate than women who chose "low-fat" or "non-fat" I was thrilled to find that study and stuck to my morning half and half in my coffee. I don't have much dairy otherwise, ... so, moderation, of coures, but a little "Full fat" is good, for some reason... ?
> 
> Best wishes and baby dust to you :)Click to expand...

Thank you for answering my questions, this is so helpful!

Can it be simply the difference between the fish oils that come from the fish body and the fish's liver? I buy the fish body ones cos I heard that the supplements made from the liver of the fish, such as cod liver oil, contain the retinol form of vitamin A and may contain mercury so need to be avoided.

I had no idea that there was water processed decaf (I wrongly assumed they were all chemically decaffeinated and therefore not suitable). This is certainly something to concider. I wonder if coffee shops use water processed decaf? I also take calcium/mag with Vit D but as capsules rather than liquid (supose they have the same effect?)

I totally agree with "full fat" dairy product, could never understand why people are afraid of dairy products - this is the most natural and well balanced food you can get. when I get my "full fat" latter I always make myself feel better by thinking that at least I have something good in my coffee...


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## Natsby

[QUOTE

Hi Nats 
Hope you're well :hugs: I'm so thrilled for you and have a positive feeling for you! It's just so amazing that it's happened right before your planned IUI. 

Thanks for the hypnosis link - i've bookmarked it for future reference, lol an act of sheer PMA! I'm using a similar audio for stress release, finding it quite helpful. With herbal teas I was told to stick with something like nettle leaf as it is loaded with Vits, maybe check with your naturopath? 

I've been looking into the perfume issue. So it seems the issue is the chemicals used to mimmick natural scents like musk etc are stored in the body and can be hormone inhibitors. The same with the "phthalates" that carry the scent. 

As for avoiding perfume during pregnancy:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7590641.stm[/QUOTE]
peacebaby the hypnosis is also for trying to get pregnant after loss so I think it would work before or during. I used infertility one I found on the same site and liked it a lot. I drink a fair bit of nettle tea but have had to give up the one i like with licorice root, which is a shame.The article about perfume was interesting thanks.
Thanks for the positive vibes and sending some right back at you.:hugs:


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