# Am I the only one who thinks that



## Gunnhilde

Am I the only one who thinks that you don't have to be overly prepared for a child? As in, you can have a child before finishing university, buying house, having a lot of savings, or having a good career?

Maybe it is me feeling a little weird but I feel kind of out of place in that we'll be renting for a few (maybe many) years yet, OH isn't done with his apprenticeship, and I'm not done with university/grad school yet and don't plan to be for quite some time. 

:wacko:


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## brenn09

I certainly don't think anyone needs those things to have, love, cherish, and raise a child. 

For us, though, we want to be close to buying a house (next year!!) and for me to be done with my master's before baby comes. Those are the things we feel are necessary for us to be most comfortable with bringing a child into this world. I'll start pursuing my doctorate when our children are older and more independent, so I'll even be back in school with small children at home. 

To each their own, however! My parents had absolutely none of these things and I loved my childhood. It was full of happy memories and cherished loved ones. We did without a lot, but I didn't notice it!


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## kellydcares

I don't think you need to be overly prepared but I think a lot of people like to get the big important things out of the way. I got pregnant with my first just before my 18th birthday. She was a birth control surprise but I was happy to have her and she has had a really good life. My husband got a really good job without any college education. I know that is very lucky and not normal though. If I get pregnant in the first year of trying my second child will be born before I finish school as well and we are still renting. We won't by our house till at least a year after I am done school. But sometimes I think it would be easier if I was done school and had a house and what not. But I don't necessarily think it should stop people as long as they are prepared mentally physically and at least somewhat secure financially that they are not trying while on benefits (US benefits at least as they are HARD to get and if you are on them trying to have more children I think there needs to be some second thoughts there).


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## comotion89

I believe you don't have to as I'm a product of that my mum was not educated neither was my dad though they owned a house but weren't the best in a financial situation and I'm the only one out of my siblings to go to university ....however I don't want to be that way I want to have my career first and not to fussed about wether we still rent or buy but also to be stable in finances . I know my mum found it hard going to college and having me especially being an older lady 42 At the time I personally couldn't go through all that and plus I want to avoid any feeling of resentment If I havnt achieved my goals


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## Gunnhilde

kellydcares said:


> I don't think you need to be overly prepared but I think a lot of people like to get the big important things out of the way. I got pregnant with my first just before my 18th birthday. She was a birth control surprise but I was happy to have her and she has had a really good life. My husband got a really good job without any college education. I know that is very lucky and not normal though. If I get pregnant in the first year of trying my second child will be born before I finish school as well and we are still renting. We won't by our house till at least a year after I am done school. But sometimes I think it would be easier if I was done school and had a house and what not. But I don't necessarily think it should stop people as long as they are prepared mentally physically and at least somewhat secure financially that they are not trying while on benefits (US benefits at least as they are HARD to get and if you are on them trying to have more children I think there needs to be some second thoughts there).

I think benefits is a little different of a situation. Legally in Denmark we can't touch them (it is called cash help) because of trying to get family reunification visas. I've been eligible for 4+ years to receive welfare and food stamps but have never applied, so :shrug: .

I had DD at 21 and I don't think it would have been easier having finished school first. :shrug:



brenn09 said:


> I certainly don't think anyone needs those things to have, love, cherish, and raise a child.
> 
> For us, though, we want to be close to buying a house (next year!!) and for me to be done with my master's before baby comes. Those are the things we feel are necessary for us to be most comfortable with bringing a child into this world. I'll start pursuing my doctorate when our children are older and more independent, so I'll even be back in school with small children at home.
> 
> To each their own, however! My parents had absolutely none of these things and I loved my childhood. It was full of happy memories and cherished loved ones. We did without a lot, but I didn't notice it!

I probably should have clarified that I'm about to own a $450,000 house and 2 cars, but just on the wrong continent and I've done 8 years of university already (perpetual student here). Whatever money I get from a quick sale of the house and after probate lawyer fees and settling debts...is probably just going to go to buying a car and sending my DD to private school (which is pretty cheap in DK because it is subsidized). I guess I should have pointed out that we'd probably have enough to buy a house, but I kind of don't want to because of the added maintenance costs and responsibility (I've seen how this works on my mother's house). It can be cheaper to just rent, especially in the city. :winkwink:


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## Gunnhilde

comotion89 said:


> I believe you don't have to as I'm a product of that my mum was not educated neither was my dad though they owned a house but weren't the best in a financial situation and I'm the only one out of my siblings to go to university ....however I don't want to be that way I want to have my career first and not to fussed about wether we still rent or buy but also to be stable in finances . I know my mum found it hard going to college and having me especially being an older lady 42 At the time I personally couldn't go through all that and plus I want to avoid any feeling of resentment If I havnt achieved my goals

I haven't found it hard at all going to university with a child, so maybe I'm just weird. I actually find it kind of empowering.

:shrug: Whatever makes you happy. I was kind of looking for some sort of support in the way I felt though. :cry:


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## BlondeShorty

I honestly don't believe you have to be overly prepared either. I remember my step mom telling me that you're never 100% prepared anyway. .. DH's boss and a coworker actually told him that he shouldn't worry too much about what the future holds but just start TTC for when I want to start again as obstacles will always pop up.. and even if we do start TTC for when we want the next one.. it's not guaranteed I'll get pregnant right away again anyway. It may take longer than anticipated. :wacko:

I think you just need to be mentally ready and have a few things established. .. For me it was that I wanted to be married before having children or know that I was going to get married as I have too many family members/friends that never got married and treat their relationship as disposable yet have kids and this seems to be very hard on their children. (And yes I realize this isn't always the case, it just happens to be that I am surrounded by people that are like that so it was a big deal to me personally..)

Also, DH was laid off when we were going to start TTC the first time so we held off until he was employed again and I had an engagement ring on my finger. 

A good friend of mine didn't buy her house or get married until after their second son turned 2 years old or so I believe. They are now pregnant with their third.. and they're a very happy family. I look at them as an example of why you don't always need to have the house and wedding before you start TTC.


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## Jary

We arnt married or have our own house. In fact we have been living with my partners parents since sept last year. We are finally moving into a rented property next week. We do want to get married but don't feel a rush to do it. Most of our friends are married, have their own house etc but we are happy doing what we are doing. So yes we could do much better before trying but we feel the time for kids is now and we are in a position to raise a family. And in time we'll be in an even better position.

So no I don't think you need to have everything prepared. I think especially if you dont already have kids then you can't be totally prepared anyway, even if you had plenty of money and time etc.


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## wellsk

I think that it really depends on the couple to be honest. As everyone says, if you waited till the perfect time to have children, you'd never have kids! 
I'm not going to have a career sorted when I have a LO, but I'm not too concerned about that as Im kinda playing the long game with my career. I may be going to do another degree, or at very least I'll be going back to study postgrad. Most likely when little one goes to school. 
My husband is still getting established in his career, after having to give up a previous one. We are not well off, but we make enough money for now.
We will have some savings for a baby, and baby things. 

But our child will be very much loved, and at a young age. They don't know or care that things are second hand or that their family doesn't have lots of money. They understand love, playing games and being taken to the park.

Although there were some things I wanted to achieve before having a baby. Which were to get married (did that 2 years ago) and buy our first home (did that last year). I also want my undergraduate degree to be over with before baby arrives, but I am happy to be pregnant during the last few months of the course. But these are just things I wanted to do, and not rules that I think others should follow.


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## brenn09

Gunnhilde said:


> I probably should have clarified that I'm about to own a $450,000 house and 2 cars, but just on the wrong continent and I've done 8 years of university already (perpetual student here). Whatever money I get from a quick sale of the house and after probate lawyer fees and settling debts...is probably just going to go to buying a car and sending my DD to private school (which is pretty cheap in DK because it is subsidized). I guess I should have pointed out that we'd probably have enough to buy a house, but I kind of don't want to because of the added maintenance costs and responsibility (I've seen how this works on my mother's house). It can be cheaper to just rent, especially in the city. :winkwink:

I was not making any sort of statement or judgement on your situation or implying that you were unable to buy a home or were somehow "poor." I was simply stating that I had a childhood without those items and was completely happy so that is why I feel none of these things are required, but may be necessary for a couple (like OH and I) to feel comfortable. Please forgive me if I somehow implied I thought you were poor or unable to purchase a home/car or shouldn't be attending university. That was never my intention!


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## jaf1987

I agree with the PP that said it depends on the couple. Personally, I found it important to be done with college, be married and have a stable job. Can it be done before all of those things? Of course. But I've seen many of my friends struggle to go back to school or pay bills because of the added strain. Having a baby technically doesn't take THAT much money (depends on the child of course), so it can be done on a lower income, but I'd rather not be living paycheck to paycheck with a child. That's why we decided to wait until after we're married and get better jobs. So it comes down to personal preferences and your willingness to make things work.


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## Gunnhilde

brenn09 said:


> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> I probably should have clarified that I'm about to own a $450,000 house and 2 cars, but just on the wrong continent and I've done 8 years of university already (perpetual student here). Whatever money I get from a quick sale of the house and after probate lawyer fees and settling debts...is probably just going to go to buying a car and sending my DD to private school (which is pretty cheap in DK because it is subsidized). I guess I should have pointed out that we'd probably have enough to buy a house, but I kind of don't want to because of the added maintenance costs and responsibility (I've seen how this works on my mother's house). It can be cheaper to just rent, especially in the city. :winkwink:
> 
> I was not making any sort of statement or judgement on your situation or implying that you were unable to buy a home or were somehow "poor." I was simply stating that I had a childhood without those items and was completely happy so that is why I feel none of these things are required, but may be necessary for a couple (like OH and I) to feel comfortable. Please forgive me if I somehow implied I thought you were poor or unable to purchase a home/car or shouldn't be attending university. That was never my intention!Click to expand...

Oh, I didn't think it was! Color me grumpy when I wrote that because I hadn't eaten in a while. :blush: It probably came across wrong. :haha:


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## x Zaly x

I dont think it is overly important either. I am married, have a daughter and my husband is in uni. We are renting at the moment and are managing fine. We are planing on another baby next year which might seam irresponsible to some people but seams like a good time for us because hubby will be graduating and going straight into full employment. And theres no point in buying a house here in uk because we are probably going to move abroad in two years hopefully. I guess it just depends on your circumstances, everybody has different ways of living their lives :) xx


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## zoomlentil

I agree with you Gunnhilde, and it's good to see that someone else feels the same way!

If I get pregnant when I want to, it'll be my first year out of uni. OH and I aren't married and don't plan to anytime soon (I'm just not that interested in legal marriage, but that's another story) and we will be renting. So many people think I'm crazy wanting to have a baby before I own a home or am married, but realistically, I'll probably be 30 by the time I've managed to do all that, and I want my baby making years over by the time I'm 30! That then presents a bit of a problem! :haha:

There are plenty of crappy parents out there who own a home and have money to spare, just like there a plenty of awesome parents who aren't in such a situation. I can say from experience that money doesn't buy a child happiness and shouldn't be used as a substitute. :(


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## kellydcares

Gunnhilde said:


> I haven't found it hard at all going to university with a child, so maybe I'm just weird. I actually find it kind of empowering.
> 
> :shrug: Whatever makes you happy. I was kind of looking for some sort of support in the way I felt though. :cry:

I hope I didn't come off as unsupportive. I think everything you are doing is great. You seem like an awesome mother and I in no way was trying to say that you shouldn't have as many kids as you want. I also get the empowerment feeling being in school with having my daughter. But I still think it is harder with my daughter then it would have been without. But at the same time I doubt I would have concentrated enough on my studies without her and wouldn't be doing as well. I also could afford a house but choose not to. I prefer to have my babies first. I can put a house off there are other options then owning :)


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## comotion89

aww gunnhilde your not weird you just different :D maybe it's different for you also as you have already got your dd so yor this super mum already (juggling work, life, child) so having another may not phase u I'm yet to gain my cape lol I've got years left but yea
I do agree with you that we do not need to be overly prepared but I'm sure we all do some level of preparation like yourself , moving , getting married I'm sure you were doing this before ttc? I think lol but to then think about having x amount of money or whatever is subjective I was raised on a low income and didn't even notice my childhood was epic :D so I do agree with u hun it's just for me I have I be married first really I'm already a RGN and have been for 2 years so career is ok and we rent. so smile I'm
on your side lol


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## Bellydreams

All the pre planning stuff I learnt from my parents and via looking at how others in my extended families lives turned out. 

Most of my extended family didn't plan before starting families and my parents did, when I compare the two situations I clearly head towards the planning route since I've seen the challenges & dramas that the non-planners struggle with all the time. Not to say they aren't happy, but if I want to make things smoother for myself and any babies I bring into this world the way I have learned is to get your life sorted out (personal plans accomplished) prior to starting a family! All in all for your benefit and peace of mind!

But everyone is different and people plan things in different ways, so guess it just lies in what you personally see as a priority!

For me it was career, marriage, house, financially secure then babies! I'm so stoked to be at the babies stage very soon!


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## jammers77

No, you're not the only one who thinks that, Gunnhilde. I've always had the thought that I didn't want to plan my life around having my kids. I just went ahead and had them, because really that's where my joy lies. I say as long as a person has their head on their shoulders as far as finances are concerned, go for it. You don't have to be rich to have kids, just budget wisely. I threw my career out the window to raise my kids. (Not that I think everyone MUST do that, but that was just something I decided to do myself. I find myself actually more busy now than when I was working--more activities revolved around family.) We live on one income and have since DS#2 came around. There are sacrifices we've had to make (some a little more difficult than others), but my kids are my joy. I can always go to work later on.:coffee:


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## Mummy Bean

Gunhilde - personally i think your crazy...but in a brilliant way. Just as children dont come with a handbook neither does life...you have to do what ever you want to do to makes you happy- and it certainlly sounds like you have.

and you managed to find love in another country and cant wait to get pumping out...what is it 8 or 9 kids did you say?? that pretty awesome. (tiny half danish minions)

i was never one for setting goals for my self...more of go with flow sort of girl and it worked out pretty good so far! 

but one thing...you been in uni for 8 YEARS WTF!! what the hell are you studying...everything??


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## Gunnhilde

Mummy Bean said:


> Gunhilde - personally i think your crazy...but in a brilliant way. Just as children dont come with a handbook neither does life...you have to do what ever you want to do to makes you happy- and it certainlly sounds like you have.
> 
> and you managed to find love in another country and cant wait to get pumping out...what is it 8 or 9 kids did you say?? that pretty awesome. (tiny half danish minions)
> 
> i was never one for setting goals for my self...more of go with flow sort of girl and it worked out pretty good so far!
> 
> but one thing...you been in uni for 8 YEARS WTF!! what the hell are you studying...everything??

He's only agreed to 4 more kids, so far. I think I'll win out for more though. :winkwink: Part of me wants to believe they will be more than half Danish (hey I have one of those old-school Danish/Viking/English last names and my family is all inbred and from one of those Viking hotspots in Yorkshire :winkwink:), but OH scoffs at that. 

8 years. :haha: Well, it was 4 years of mining engineering and religious studies, then 4 years of mathematics, physics, Judaic studies, and international finance. I have a learning obsession and I'm a bit like an information sponge. :haha:

The vast majority of American BS degrees are 4-5 years long, so that does account for some of it. 

You know what I think it is and I know some other people who grew up like I did and came to the same conclusion - having everything I ever wanted growing up, I realized it doesn't bring happiness or stability. I've observed so many people, in so many different circumstances and I think it is what made me have my first at 21. I think I just watched couple after couple, woman after woman got through this education -> date for 3+ years -> career -> house -> then maybe TTC. Life is just too short for all of that and I don't have time to sit around twiddling my thumbs when I could be living it!


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## Pearls18

Of course you can have a child before doing those things, and I don't think it'll impact you as a mother much either way. I think it takes the fun away though, I begrudge the fact I have to start my masters in September and will be losing out on my 'me time' evenings and weekends with LO. I would actively encourage people to get uni and such like done beforehand just because there's enough to worry about as a mother anyway and will take away from the fun. So no I only partly agree.


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## Pearls18

Plus it isn't easy for everyone to do those things once you've had a child, in the UK childcare and university fees are extortionate I couldn't imagine committing to that without my husband around or those without family. Also uni is often about the social life as well as the qualification, some people want to enjoy uni, then enjoy babies not rush it all together at once. I went abroad for a semester couldn't have done that as a mother.


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## Gunnhilde

MarineWAG said:


> Plus it isn't easy for everyone to do those things once you've had a child, in the UK childcare and university fees are extortionate I couldn't imagine committing to that without my husband around or those without family. Also uni is often about the social life as well as the qualification, some people want to enjoy uni, then enjoy babies not rush it all together at once. I went abroad for a semester couldn't have done that as a mother.

Well, I think we've disagreed about this before. :flower: I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt on all of those things - so I know it can work for *me*. Actually, I thought it was fantastic! :flower:

Different strokes for different folks and all. :thumbup:

My LO is way more fun than anything I did beforehand anyway.


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## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> Plus it isn't easy for everyone to do those things once you've had a child, in the UK childcare and university fees are extortionate I couldn't imagine committing to that without my husband around or those without family. Also uni is often about the social life as well as the qualification, some people want to enjoy uni, then enjoy babies not rush it all together at once. I went abroad for a semester couldn't have done that as a mother.
> 
> Well, I think we've disagreed about this before. :flower: I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt on all of those things - so I know it can work for *me*. Actually, I thought it was fantastic! :flower:
> 
> Different strokes for different folks and all. :thumbup:
> 
> My LO is way more fun than anything I did beforehand anyway.Click to expand...

Lol we have. Exactly we all do things differently otherwise it would be a very boring world. Of course my LO is fun for me too, which is why I would like to have all my free time outside of work concentrating on him not my masters, which I also want to enjoy, but alas everything happened very quickly! I just worry I am going to be 40, kids about to leave home and I will be bored having done everything on my 20s haha. Better get saving lol.


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## angiepie

I don't think you need to have those things or be 100% prepared (although I think you should try to be somewhat prepared when it's a planned thing) but I just WANT things to be perfect. I know if I had a kid in the middle of my course I'd never go back. :D And OH needs to have a steady job etc beforehand as I'll be a SAHM and we pretty much need to buy a house to live in the area we want to move to (in the country) as there's very little renting opportunities. In any case, we just want to own a place first as that's what our parents did and we feel it's right for us, but I'd also happily have a kid now before all those things (if I could afford it).


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## lozzy21

No but its a hell of a lot easier to do before having a child. Trying to save for a house or a wedding is easier when you dont have the extra out goings that come with having a child even before the wage cut because you have gone part time.

As much as i would love to go to uni i just cant afford it, i cant afford the 9k a year tuition fees and we as a family cant cope with out my earnings coming in.

So while its not necessary to do all of those things before having a baby it is easier than trying to do them with a baby


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## Pearls18

lozzy21 said:


> No but its a hell of a lot easier to do before having a child. Trying to save for a house or a wedding is easier when you dont have the extra out goings that come with having a child even before the wage cut because you have gone part time.
> 
> As much as i would love to go to uni i just cant afford it, i cant afford the 9k a year tuition fees and we as a family cant cope with out my earnings coming in.
> 
> So while its not necessary to do all of those things before having a baby it is easier than trying to do them with a baby

Also the thing with uni, as well as the fees, is the childcare. It costs us £712 a month for Elliot to go to nursery for only 4 days a week and that is with military discount, that is a whopping amount even when you're both working (think of all the saving towards a house deposit you could do with that!) but as a student it was a no-go, being married meant we had very little access to help for childcare so I couldn't justify leaving work to be a student. But tbh I wouldn't have done it anyways for the masters because it looks better to be in the work place than a student atm!! (for my sector)


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## Gunnhilde

I give up hope.

On occasion, I do just feel like I need people who support my decisions and are just like me.

I don't really care why people did all those things first - really I don't. I hear it all the time.

:shrug:


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## wellsk

:hugs: Are you okay Gunnhilde?
I don't think anyone was having a go at you, or your decisions as to why you do the things the way you do them. At the end of the day, everyone should do the best for themselves and not worry about what everyone else thinks. Because they're not the ones living your life, you are!

I think I'm like you in the fact that I've not chosen the path that others want for me. 
Don't take it to heart though Gunnhilde, no one is judging you :hugs:


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## Pearls18

Gunnhilde I've noticed you're not always quick to just agree with everyone on posts and will speak your mind, which is a good thing and what I do, you have asked if you are the only one who thinks this and the answer is no as some have agreed, but as always with the way the world is some have disagreed. I know how it feels to have a thread not turn out how you wanted, sometimes it's worth just saying in the opening post something along the lines of *looking for support not those that disagree* sounds lame but otherwise, people like me, will jump on saying they don't feel that way and treat it as a bit of healthy debate, we have very similar experiences you and I but feel differently about them. I will always post on something like this because I firmly believe if you have educational aspirations it is easier to do it first, I hope it is advice to those contemplating otherwise and reassurance to those WTT for this reason. I am one side of the spectrum. And you are the other which is great, because obviously other people feel they can do it all now, or may reconsider their reasons for WTT. No one is right or wrong but will attract opposing opinions. You have chosen a 'different' path and seem happy with it which is great, I'm sure you're not the only one :flower:


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## teacup

I could never have gone to uni and looked after a child at the same time. If I had then I wouldn't have the job I have today (because I wouldn't have had time to do the work!) I suppose it depends on how much work your course requires but I wouldn't have been happy having someone else care for my child while I were at uni. I don't think you need to buy a house to start a family, but that would definitely be a bonus. So long as you have money coming in, a place to live (rented or bought) and a healthy, stable and loving relationship those are the main things before starting a family in my opinion. :thumbup:


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## k.mcmahan2010

I have to say I agree Gunnhilde. Although I have partially went the "typical route" of doing school, marriage, etc before babies, but that is only because my DH says he "isn't ready". The only thing I really wanted before babies was to graduate high school and get married and DH have a steady income (even if it isn't great. I just wanted to make sure that he wasn't going to be let go or anything suddenly.)

Currently I have finished my Associates degree and I am starting my Bachelors in a week and a half. Which is all online so I think it will be do-able if I do get pregnant before finishing it. DH still wants to go back to school eventually so he can actually have a career (he started tech school after high school, but couldn't get financial aid to pay for it, and after a while he couldn't pay for it himself, so had to drop out). We technically own our home, but only because DH's aunt paid for most of it for us when he was out of work so it was one less bill we had to worry about. It's definitely not a place we plan on stay at forever. I hope to move within a few years (preferably 2). The next place we end up living we may rent or own, just depends on what we find and our current situation at the time. We have very little savings currently (at least until I *hopefully* start work in a week or so, then 90% of my wages will go straight into a separate account for savings. Which will first go toward a Christmas trip, then a car for me, then fixing DH's car's motor, then probably a baby fund.)

Long story short, in our situation, there isn't anything we want to do that would be impossible or even difficult, to do with a child. Now to convince DH to TTC.......lol


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## lozzy21

Im not saying you cant do all those things after a baby, its just harder and as some one who dident do the conventional route and is now struggling it would be wrong to make others think that going to uni, buying a house, getting married after you have a baby is a piece of piss when its far from it. We will have to cut out all luxuries for 2 years to be able to afford a half decent wedding, realistically we wont be able to afford to buy a house unless one of our grandparents/parents dies and we get left some money. Uni will have to wait untill all my children are in school, whats easy about that?


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## Gunnhilde

lozzy21 said:


> Im not saying you cant do all those things after a baby, its just harder and as some one who dident do the conventional route and is now struggling it would be wrong to make others think that going to uni, buying a house, getting married after you have a baby is a piece of piss when its far from it. We will have to cut out all luxuries for 2 years to be able to afford a half decent wedding, realistically we wont be able to afford to buy a house unless one of our grandparents/parents dies and we get left some money. Uni will have to wait untill all my children are in school, whats easy about that?

Point wasn't anybody asking if you thought it was easy or a good idea.

Point of the thread was me looking for other people who had made similar lifestyle choices as me.

I thought it was easy (maybe not so much having a baby in the MIDDLE of a semester). Yes, I am inheriting a house, but that was rather unexpected and since I didn't even know my dad had cancer until June of this year, it certainly wasn't part of the game plan. However, we do believe that the universe and the gods provide for people who make good/moral choices. The gods have always provided and they will continue to do so. :shrug:

We aren't saving for a big wedding, because it is a luxury that I don't think we need. I got married at the courthouse first time around. We'll be getting married civilly and quickly and then having a restaurant meal for close family after our handfasting. 

I suppose we all have priorities - mine was having children and making a family. I was just hoping to find other women who felt that having children was more important than some other things in life. That is all.


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## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> Im not saying you cant do all those things after a baby, its just harder and as some one who dident do the conventional route and is now struggling it would be wrong to make others think that going to uni, buying a house, getting married after you have a baby is a piece of piss when its far from it. We will have to cut out all luxuries for 2 years to be able to afford a half decent wedding, realistically we wont be able to afford to buy a house unless one of our grandparents/parents dies and we get left some money. Uni will have to wait untill all my children are in school, whats easy about that?
> 
> Point wasn't anybody asking if you thought it was easy or a good idea.
> 
> Point of the thread was me looking for other people who had made similar lifestyle choices as me.
> 
> I thought it was easy (maybe not so much having a baby in the MIDDLE of a semester). Yes, I am inheriting a house, but that was rather unexpected and since I didn't even know my dad had cancer until June of this year, it certainly wasn't part of the game plan. However, we do believe that the universe and the gods provide for people who make good/moral choices. The gods have always provided and they will continue to do so. :shrug:
> 
> We aren't saving for a big wedding, because it is a luxury that I don't think we need. I got married at the courthouse first time around. We'll be getting married civilly and quickly and then having a restaurant meal for close family after our handfasting.
> 
> I suppose we all have priorities - mine was having children and making a family. I was just hoping to find other women who felt that having children was more important than some other things in life. That is all.Click to expand...

You can be a bit self-righteous making out your priorities are more justifiable than others, you may not have noticed but you have put me down a few times in this thread and others "I just have so much fun with my kid" or whatever you said making it sound like I don't lol. Just because some people choose to have a degree or whatever before having a child doesn't make their priority for children any less than you, I have always stated my admiration for the women in WTT doing so despite desperately wanting to TTC but wanting the best for them and their child, I don't think this makes them think of children as less important than you do.


----------



## wellsk

I'm sorry Gunnhilde, but I did have to agree with MarineWAG there. I was a little hurt over the idea that you suggested I had more important priorities than having children. I really don't, but I want to be able to spend all my time with my child before they go to school. Be able to breastfeed, not have to put them in nursery or have to rely on other family members. I wouldn't be able to do that if I'd had my children before my first degree.

That's why I wanted to wait, so I could do well at my exams, so hopefully I'll have a good degree when it comes to looking for a career (after children), so hopefully I will make good money to provide for my children. Although as I've spoken about previously, I might be going back to do a second degree or postgrad. But probably when my child is in school.

I am not saying that your decisions were wrong because they are slightly different from mine. I'm also not saying that my ideas are better than yours, but your lastest post did come across as such.
You know that I like you Gunnhilde, and I thought that it was only fair to point out when I was hurt by what you said. :(


----------



## lozzy21

Gunnhilde said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> Im not saying you cant do all those things after a baby, its just harder and as some one who dident do the conventional route and is now struggling it would be wrong to make others think that going to uni, buying a house, getting married after you have a baby is a piece of piss when its far from it. We will have to cut out all luxuries for 2 years to be able to afford a half decent wedding, realistically we wont be able to afford to buy a house unless one of our grandparents/parents dies and we get left some money. Uni will have to wait untill all my children are in school, whats easy about that?
> 
> Point wasn't anybody asking if you thought it was easy or a good idea.
> 
> Point of the thread was me looking for other people who had made similar lifestyle choices as me.
> 
> I thought it was easy (maybe not so much having a baby in the MIDDLE of a semester). Yes, I am inheriting a house, but that was rather unexpected and since I didn't even know my dad had cancer until June of this year, it certainly wasn't part of the game plan. However, we do believe that the universe and the gods provide for people who make good/moral choices. The gods have always provided and they will continue to do so. :shrug:
> 
> We aren't saving for a big wedding, because it is a luxury that I don't think we need. I got married at the courthouse first time around. We'll be getting married civilly and quickly and then having a restaurant meal for close family after our handfasting.
> 
> I suppose we all have priorities - mine was having children and making a family. I was just hoping to find other women who felt that having children was more important than some other things in life. That is all.Click to expand...


If you read it properly i have made similar lifestyle choices to you, iv had a child before iv bought a house or got married or gone to uni but to make out that doing those things after a child is easy would be wrong. Having a child was a bigger priority for me than the above but to give others the opinion through rose tinted glasses would be an abuse of the perspective im able to give by all-ready having a child. I though it would be easy to go to uni after having a baby and while the practical side would be easy, financially its just not feasible.


----------



## Gunnhilde

wellsk said:


> I'm sorry Gunnhilde, but I did have to agree with MarineWAG there. I was a little hurt over the idea that you suggested I had more important priorities than having children. I really don't, but I want to be able to spend all my time with my child before they go to school. Be able to breastfeed, not have to put them in nursery or have to rely on other family members. I wouldn't be able to do that if I'd had my children before my first degree.
> 
> That's why I wanted to wait, so I could do well at my exams, so hopefully I'll have a good degree when it comes to looking for a career (after children), so hopefully I will make good money to provide for my children. Although as I've spoken about previously, I might be going back to do a second degree or postgrad. But probably when my child is in school.
> 
> I am not saying that your decisions were wrong because they are slightly different from mine. I'm also not saying that my ideas are better than yours, but your lastest post did come across as such.
> You know that I like you Gunnhilde, and I thought that it was only fair to point out when I was hurt by what you said. :(

And I've been a little hurt by all the comments made about teen mothers and people still living at home. :winkwink:

Hence why I made this thread.


----------



## wellsk

But Gunnhilde, you weren't a 'stereotypical' teen mother, and you know you weren't. I know and have heard that you had a tough time trying to prove to others that you could rise above what others thought teen mothers were like. You proved those doctors and midwives wrong who were so judgemental towards you. It's also brilliant that you've done well and got through university. 
But there's no need to be like this towards people you asked opinions of. Yes, I can be very mean towards some teen mothers, because I've seen how bad they can be, I've also written about 20 and 30 something who have also been bad, if not worse in some cases. 
But we are all on this site because we share a desperation for children in common, cant we focus on that?


----------



## Gunnhilde

wellsk said:


> But Gunnhilde, you weren't a 'stereotypical' teen mother, and you know you weren't. I know and have heard that you had a tough time trying to prove to others that you could rise above what others thought teen mothers were like. You proved those doctors and midwives wrong who were so judgemental towards you. It's also brilliant that you've done well and got through university.
> But there's no need to be like this towards people you asked opinions of. Yes, I can be very mean towards some teen mothers, because I've seen how bad they can be, I've also written about 20 and 30 something who have also been bad, if not worse in some cases.
> But we are all on this site because we share a desperation for children in common, cant we focus on that?

I wasn't trying to offend anyone with this thread subject matter, but people were a little over the top in their responses back. Just my opinion on the subject. It would be hard for someone who was in your shoes to understand what it is like to be in mine. I really do understand why people wait for some things, really. But, do I want them to constantly tell me that my choices are not ideal? Not really. 

Also, I could have very well been one of those teen mothers. We were TTC when I was in high school, it is just my ex had fertility issues.


----------



## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> wellsk said:
> 
> 
> But Gunnhilde, you weren't a 'stereotypical' teen mother, and you know you weren't. I know and have heard that you had a tough time trying to prove to others that you could rise above what others thought teen mothers were like. You proved those doctors and midwives wrong who were so judgemental towards you. It's also brilliant that you've done well and got through university.
> But there's no need to be like this towards people you asked opinions of. Yes, I can be very mean towards some teen mothers, because I've seen how bad they can be, I've also written about 20 and 30 something who have also been bad, if not worse in some cases.
> But we are all on this site because we share a desperation for children in common, cant we focus on that?
> 
> I wasn't trying to offend anyone with this thread subject matter, but people were a little over the top in their responses back. Just my opinion on the subject. It would be hard for someone who was in your shoes to understand what it is like to be in mine. I really do understand why people wait for some things, really. But, do I want them to constantly tell me that my choices are not ideal? Not really.
> 
> Also, I could have very well been one of those teen mothers. We were TTC when I was in high school, it is just my ex had fertility issues.Click to expand...

And this was why I replied, because we had similar circumstances and I wouldn't recommend it, and I don't think it is good to make out it is easy because I think for the majority of people it isn't ideal even though it has worked for both of us.


----------



## wellsk

No one can fully understand what it's like to be in someone else's shoes. And I try very hard not to be judgemental towards others. Unfortunately TTC is a very touchy issue for me (as I'm sure it is yours) and I get very irrational and jealous sometimes :blush:

I couldn't have been a teen mother, I was far too young mentally and suffered a lot of mental issues. So for me, it wouldn't have been in the best interest of anyone involved. But when you suggest you could have been 'one of those teen mothers' you don't know what I'm suggesting too, and with your maturity and love for your daughter you wouldn't have been like them.


----------



## OmiOmen

It is all getting a bit heated and I am not sure how long it will be before this gets closed. :nope:

I think there is the line between not having everything "perfect" and actually not being able to emotionally or financially support a child. I do not think everything has to match up to societies idea of "perfect" before having a child but at the same time I do really think that it is about when a couple feels ready to have a baby and for many they will have goals they want to reach before TTC. 

I hate people (often teens with zero life experience) say you HAVE to own a house and ect before having a baby so I 100% get why you feel under attack sometimes. But I would not judge someone for wanting to wait either. 

We do not own a house, in this market I am not sure we ever will (unless inheriting) because we are not a couple lucky enough to be getting help from parents. If I am utterly honest I do think there are pro's to renting and cons to a mortgage. My son was 4 months old when I stared my degree and I have coped well with it however DH works nights and we did tag-team parenting to avoid childcare and I am able to work really hard when I need to. But at the same time I will probably get a 2:1 and if I had waited I may have gotten a first. :shrug: I can see why some people would have waited but for me I was in my mid-twenties, already had a history of MMC's, married and could afford a child so planned one knowing I would be putting myself under pressure. For number two however I have a bigger check-list to minimise stress to me.


----------



## Gunnhilde

I totally understand what everyone is saying. :thumbup:

Don't think I'm on a warpath about anyone's particular lifestyle choice, because everyone does what works best for them. :flower:

I think some of you got that I was feeling as though people were judging or coming off as though they were on a high horse about their lifestyle choices.

Frankly, I was little surprised that people who had made the opposite lifestyle choices than I did, chose to reply or that people who made the same lifestyle choices decided to be negative about it. I guess I should have known better.

I was just soo taken aback about people's negativity. That is all.


----------



## lozzy21

No one disagreed with you, we just pointed out that having a baby first is not always the easiest path to take and can often put a halt to your plans once you realise that.


----------



## Pearls18

I'm not negative I love my life my family, my job, but I just wouldn't recommend it to people as the best way around to do it. My mum has always joked I do things the hard way but then I remind her I always get what want lol.


----------



## Gunnhilde

lozzy21 said:


> No one disagreed with you, we just pointed out that having a baby first is not always the easiest path to take and can often put a halt to your plans once you realise that.

Ok, but it wasn't really relevant to the topic of the thread, as I've already made those choices and it isn't the case for me. So saying how hard it was or that it wasn't the best choice is kind of a weird thing to say, do you know what I mean? It was just such a bizarre response by so many people to my original post. 

It just wasn't very supportive. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## lozzy21

You might have all ready made the choices but some one else reading this might think oh they all found it easy so im going to forget about uni for another few years and have a baby now, it cant be that hard if all those people have done it.


----------



## Gunnhilde

lozzy21 said:


> You might have all ready made the choices but some one else reading this might think oh they all found it easy so im going to forget about uni for another few years and have a baby now, it cant be that hard if all those people have done it.

Yes, I got that. I'm glad you feel like you need to warn people off of something that I think has been great using my thread.

But did you get how it made me feel at all? Or any of the other women who made that choice?


----------



## lozzy21

It seams all of the other woman that made the same choice agree with me apart from you. If you have found it easy then good on you but just because you have found it easy doesn't mean that every one else will too.


----------



## Gunnhilde

lozzy21 said:


> It seams all of the other woman that made the same choice agree with me apart from you. If you have found it easy then good on you but just because you have found it easy doesn't mean that every one else will too.

Then why bring it up in a thread that I created for support about the decision?


----------



## teacup

Gunnhilde said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that you don't have to be overly prepared for a child? As in, you can have a child before finishing university, buying house, having a lot of savings, or having a good career?

I'm confused. Why ask this question if you didn't want peoples opinions? Who cares if people don't share the same opinion as you? That would make for a pointless forum. I don't think anyone has offended anyone, everyone is simply voicing their opinion. Telling a load of broody women that their reasons for waiting to TTC are pointless is hardly going to have the desired response...


----------



## lozzy21

Because its something others need to think about. I totaly agree you dont need to have everything before having a child but by doing that it can sometimes change your plans.

If your wanting every one to agree with you that having a baby first is a walk in the park then posting on an open forum is the wrong way to get it


----------



## Gunnhilde

teacup said:


> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks that you don't have to be overly prepared for a child? As in, you can have a child before finishing university, buying house, having a lot of savings, or having a good career?
> 
> I'm confused. Why ask this question if you didn't want peoples opinions? Who cares if people don't share the same opinion as you? That would make for a pointless forum. I don't think anyone has offended anyone, everyone is simply voicing their opinion. Telling a load of broody women that their reasons for waiting to TTC are pointless is hardly going to have the desired response...Click to expand...

Did I ever say it was pointless?

Nope.

Am I the only one...usually implies that you are looking for other people who think the same way.

Sorry. I'll ask for the thread to be locked. This is ridiculous.


----------



## lozzy21

So basicly your throwing a hissy because not every one agrees with you instead of seeing it as a healthy debate?


----------



## teacup

Gunnhilde said:


> teacup said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks that you don't have to be overly prepared for a child? As in, you can have a child before finishing university, buying house, having a lot of savings, or having a good career?
> 
> I'm confused. Why ask this question if you didn't want peoples opinions? Who cares if people don't share the same opinion as you? That would make for a pointless forum. I don't think anyone has offended anyone, everyone is simply voicing their opinion. Telling a load of broody women that their reasons for waiting to TTC are pointless is hardly going to have the desired response...Click to expand...
> 
> Did I ever say it was pointless?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Am I the only one...usually implies that you are looking for other people who think the same way.
> 
> Sorry. I'll ask for the thread to be locked. This is ridiculous.Click to expand...

Yes you stated that finishing uni, buying a house, saving money, and getting a good career are not good enough reasons to wait to TTC. :shrug: So that is bound to rile people who are waiting for those reasons and really want to TTC.


----------



## Gunnhilde

lozzy21 said:


> So basicly your throwing a hissy because not every one agrees with you instead of seeing it as a healthy debate?

Nope, I'm not having a hissy fit.

I think it is downright awful that you think your kids get in the way of your education. It makes me soo sad to see stuff like that. Really.

I'm going through a rough time right now. My dad is in his final 2 weeks probably, I'm moving, I'm getting married in a few weeks, my mom is being a B, and I just needed some support.

That is all.

Now, if you will all just excuse me.


----------



## wellsk

I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest. 
Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:


----------



## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> So basicly your throwing a hissy because not every one agrees with you instead of seeing it as a healthy debate?
> 
> Nope, I'm not having a hissy fit.
> 
> I think it is downright awful that you think your kids get in the way of your education. It makes me soo sad to see stuff like that. Really.
> 
> .Click to expand...

This is a bloody awful thing to say and tbh you are now showing your maturity acting like a petulant little child. If you're not secure enough in your own decisions that's your own problem love, don't try and bring down the rest if us. Pathetic.


----------



## lozzy21

Where did i say my daughter gets in the way of my education? I think your the one being awful twisting peoples words. I just said now thats shes here i cant afford it and im ok with that, im not even sure what i want to do. Any one that knows me knows i adore my daughter and she means the world to me. I dont resent her because of it, its just one of those things. I might be able to afford it later on in life, im only 24, i still have another 40 years of my working life.

How ever some one who has their heart set on going to uni for a certain job might end up regretting not going to uni first and if my posts make them think twice about TTC then im happy.


----------



## Gunnhilde

wellsk said:


> I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
> When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
> I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest.
> Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:

I did find it kind of hurtful.

When I said I did, they just kept going at me. It was really cruel.


----------



## lozzy21

Because i have found your posts just as hurtfull and down right rude sometimes. If this thread is upsetting you then you dont have to read it.


----------



## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> wellsk said:
> 
> 
> I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
> When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
> I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest.
> Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:
> 
> I did find it kind of hurtful.
> 
> When I said I did, they just kept going at me. It was really cruel.Click to expand...

But you're allowed to say what we want? I disagree with your opinion but you judge my life, feelings and choices....yep that's fair.


----------



## Gunnhilde

MarineWAG said:


> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wellsk said:
> 
> 
> I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
> When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
> I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest.
> Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:
> 
> I did find it kind of hurtful.
> 
> When I said I did, they just kept going at me. It was really cruel.Click to expand...
> 
> But you're allowed to say what we want? I disagree with your opinion but you judge my life, feelings and choices....yep that's fair.Click to expand...

But, I haven't. I specifically remember a thread about you choosing whether to go to school or have another. Did I judge you? No. Because I could give two flying you know whats about what other people do with their lives.

I actually think you make good choices and you are a fine mother. So I don't get where you think the judgement comes from?


----------



## Gunnhilde

lozzy, I read your posts wrong and for that I am sorry.

I thought that was the point you were making, but alas you weren't saying that children got in the way of school according to your clarification.

I do think you two need to lay off me though. It is bordering on harassment.


----------



## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wellsk said:
> 
> 
> I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
> When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
> I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest.
> Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:
> 
> I did find it kind of hurtful.
> 
> When I said I did, they just kept going at me. It was really cruel.Click to expand...
> 
> But you're allowed to say what we want? I disagree with your opinion but you judge my life, feelings and choices....yep that's fair.Click to expand...
> 
> But, I haven't. I specifically remember a thread about you choosing whether to go to school or have another. Did I judge you? No. Because I could give two flying you know whats about what other people do with their lives.
> 
> I actually think you make good choices and you are a fine mother. So I don't get where you think the judgement comes from?Click to expand...

Specifically?

- "I just enjoy having fun with my kid" I'm on my phone so wont copy and paste but in context that was a dig implying I didn't.

More importantly

- something along the lines of 'I find it sad to see people putting education in front of children' I took that personally, but if it wasn't directed at me I still find it pretty judgemental.

In a previous thread you made a pretty personal comment about me finding it difficult to be able to do my masters and you implied I was being lazy or not trying, many of your comments have stuck with me.


----------



## lozzy21

You say i think my daughter is an inconvenience and you wonder why i keep replying? 

:saywhat: Like i said if you dont like it you dont have to keep coming back to it do you.


----------



## Gunnhilde

MarineWAG said:


> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wellsk said:
> 
> 
> I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
> When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
> I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest.
> Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:
> 
> I did find it kind of hurtful.
> 
> When I said I did, they just kept going at me. It was really cruel.Click to expand...
> 
> But you're allowed to say what we want? I disagree with your opinion but you judge my life, feelings and choices....yep that's fair.Click to expand...
> 
> But, I haven't. I specifically remember a thread about you choosing whether to go to school or have another. Did I judge you? No. Because I could give two flying you know whats about what other people do with their lives.
> 
> I actually think you make good choices and you are a fine mother. So I don't get where you think the judgement comes from?Click to expand...
> 
> Specifically?
> 
> - "I just enjoy having fun with my kid" I'm on my phone so wont copy and paste but in context that was a dig implying I didn't.
> 
> More importantly
> 
> - something along the lines of 'I find it sad to see people putting education in front of children' I took that personally, but if it wasn't directed at me I still find it pretty judgemental.
> 
> In a previous thread you made a pretty personal comment about me finding it difficult to be able to do my masters and you implied I was being lazy or not trying, many of your comments have stuck with me.Click to expand...

It was one of the first posts I made here a while ago. I'm sorry that it hurt you. :hugs: It was really insensitive and I do regret saying it.


----------



## wellsk

Look, I just think its each to their own. Everyone has very strong ideas of how they plan their life and the way they want to raise their children. There's no reason for either side to start to be insulting. It should be a fair and non judgemental discussion over what we want to do with their lives. At the end of the day, everyone does the best for their own family, and that can be completely different between persons. Even if their situations seem similar.

If I'm honest I've found university very hard, and I take my hat off to anyone who has gone through uni with a baby. I think that if you found university easy then you are really lucky. And I can completely understand Lozzy and MarineWAG trying to explain to others the risk of having children while at uni, as in the UK, you get one shot at finance which is absolutely vital; unless your loaded! And it's so important to get it right. 
But I completely understand the desperation of wanting children young, I'm there right now! I'd give everything to have a little one. But for me, and my future baby's life, I have to get university out of the way first.

You are all doing the best for your situation. No need to be so harsh toward each other.


----------



## Pearls18

Gunnhilde said:


> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunnhilde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wellsk said:
> 
> 
> I'm really sorry that you felt so hurt by some people's responses Gunnhilde, it was not my intention to upset you, and I'm sure it wasn't anyone else's either.
> When I read this thread, I wrote thinking that you were looking for people's ideas of what bits of the 'traditional setup' they hadn't included before trying for a baby. And for me, I chose to have my baby first, then my career. Which I don't think is the expected 'norm' nowadays.
> I think maybe that your post wasn't fully understood for the responses you wanted. But I think everyone has been fair, unjudgemental and honest.
> Again, I'm sorry that you've been hurt :hugs:
> 
> I did find it kind of hurtful.
> 
> When I said I did, they just kept going at me. It was really cruel.Click to expand...
> 
> But you're allowed to say what we want? I disagree with your opinion but you judge my life, feelings and choices....yep that's fair.Click to expand...
> 
> But, I haven't. I specifically remember a thread about you choosing whether to go to school or have another. Did I judge you? No. Because I could give two flying you know whats about what other people do with their lives.
> 
> I actually think you make good choices and you are a fine mother. So I don't get where you think the judgement comes from?Click to expand...
> 
> Specifically?
> 
> - "I just enjoy having fun with my kid" I'm on my phone so wont copy and paste but in context that was a dig implying I didn't.
> 
> More importantly
> 
> - something along the lines of 'I find it sad to see people putting education in front of children' I took that personally, but if it wasn't directed at me I still find it pretty judgemental.
> 
> In a previous thread you made a pretty personal comment about me finding it difficult to be able to do my masters and you implied I was being lazy or not trying, many of your comments have stuck with me.Click to expand...
> 
> It was one of the first posts I made here a while ago. I'm sorry that it hurt you. :hugs: It was really insensitive and I do regret saying it.Click to expand...

Thank you, I'm sorry you felt attacked if you read my posts I did try and be tactful until it felt personal lol. I hope these next few weeks ease up, you sound happy in your decisions so instead of feeling odd that you feel how you do just be proud, I think perhaps your selling yourself a bit short saying it is easy it speaks as much about you and your determination as it does for your love.


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## tasha41

Regarding the name calling & some of the rude comments- unacceptable. I think there are other ways we can express ourselves. 



> Rudeness, flaming or trolling is not tolerated on, or about, BabyandBump or its members. Any member who is intentionally disruptive may have their account restricted or banned without warning.

The arguing needs to either end or turn into a respectful debate somehow. It's fine to disagree but not okay to make hurtful statements about/toward others. If you have personal feelings to address here, you can take it to a PM. If it continues here I will be locking the thread.


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## lozzy21

Gunnhilde said:


> lozzy, I read your posts wrong and for that I am sorry.
> 
> I thought that was the point you were making, but alas you weren't saying that children got in the way of school according to your clarification.
> 
> I do think you two need to lay off me though. It is bordering on harassment.

No the point i was making was that having a child makes things a lot harder financially if want still do the big things like buying a house, getting married and going to uni :dohh: especially if you OH dosent earn 50k a year and you get no help from your family.


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## Bellydreams

Boy this thread sure got heated!

Out of all this, and not reading your history Gunnhilde, why are you WTT?

Surely no matter your reason for WTT it's just as valid as everyone else's, whether it's a house, career, age gap etc.

I believe we are all WTT to give our future baby the best chance in life with a happy family. To me a happy family means different things to everyone else, but I don't think my wanting a family differs from anyone else in the sense of importance, especially considering we are all on a WTT forum! I want a baby just as badly as all the commenters, but I chose to do things for the babies benefit before it comes into this world. Before people start hating on me for that last sentence, of course this all means different things for different people and sometimes babies just happen, so we all plug along just trying to do our best!

All the best with your future TTC plans, I hope we all have BFP's in the future!


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## LockandKey

Surely one doesn't NEED these things, so I think this goes more towards what you personally would like. Some people are perfectly happy in an apartment, I grew up in apartments and obviously I am fine and healthy, but at the same time, I moved a lot, my family never stayed in one place for long, and I never had that "home I grew up in" with all the memories that I hear a lot of people mention. At times I feel as if I missed out there :( Personally for me, I would really love to own a home before growing our family any bigger. I would love for my children to have a nice neighborhood to grow up in and a home to call their own. A place where they grow fond memories where they will remember certain events and where they took place. I want them to have a home they can always come back to if they ever need to once they have left. But this is just my personal feelings, and I don't think what anyone else feels is wrong at all either, you gotta do what is best for you and your family at the time. 

I haven't been to college in about 5 years bow, but once my child or children are in school during the day I plan on going back to get my education. My DH has a good job, but I would just like to go back to further educate myself, and a duel income household would be nice, we could save up more easily for family vacations and things for our children as they get older, and save up for their college as well, plus, god forbid something ever happens to my DH and he is out of work for a while, I would like to have a decent job so that I can support us all for a while and not have to worry about losing the house or struggling to make ends meet. Again, this is just me though. No matter what anyone chooses to do, I don't think there is ever a wrong or right, as long as you do what you need to for your family's best interest....


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## Aidan's Mummy

Having been a teen mum myself (fell pregnant aged 16) I would not recommend that any one have a child until they are in a good strong relationship and they are financially stable. I love my son more than anything and I don't regret him one bit BUT I struggled finanically, emtionally and physically. From the age of 16 until I started work at 19 money was tight I struggled to provide. I still went to college to study childcare and that was physically and emotionally draining. I don't look back on my sons early years with a smile in fact I want to cry. He was the only positive thing that kept me going but the rest was bloody hard work. Now aged 20 with a job, a home and a partner having my second child has been a totally different experience. We are not struggling, I can provide with ease and it's just easier overall. My advice to anyone is have a job, a home (rented it fine) and a strong relationship because otherwise it will be an up hill battle.


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## kassiaethne

well personally for me I think it is what I want to give my child and what can I give them now. If you go having your children with little to no money, or working paycheck to paycheck you are just setting yourself up to struggle more and depend more on the government which I don't think is right. I have a friend who was very very poor growing up but as a child they never noticed, they thought it was normal that everyone went to go get foodstamps or it was normal to have their mom tell them they were out of toilet paper so to bring some rolls home from school. But then as she got older it was when the teasing and such happened and she hated it. but as children, children don't really understand the concept of being 'poor' or not having enough. everything is enough as long as you have food in your belly and a warm bed to sleep in. Everything else is bonus. 

But to me that isn't what I would want for my child. personally for my husband and I we wanted to be sure if he lost his job, we had enough money to live for a year because we wouldn't want to be homeless or living with family if he lost his job. Also we wanted to be sure his paycheck was big enough to support private school because public schools in Brazil...you might as well go hand your baby over to the drug lords... Horrible and they won't probably live till their 18th birthdays. And private school is NOT cheap. At least college is free I guess. Also we wanted to have enough money to start buying our own place because we didn't want to be renting our whole lives (but that was more we save more money without a child then with so lets save till we can make a down payment then normal smaller payments for the mortgage is just like paying rent so easier)

My whole important thought is I never want to become a burden on family ever. grandparents are ment to be grandparents and just enjoy having grandchildren. I don't ever want to have to live with them because things go south and make them HAVE to babysit because we both are working and such. I don't think its right. But that's just my personal beliefs on it and such for the lifestyle I've chosen.

So we put all those "only ifs" and then now that we got all those ducks in a row NOW we can start trying to have a child. And I think it was the right thing to do. 

So for others I'd just say, see what you want for your child, and put them in a list and how long it will take you to be able to provide that for your child, education is most important to ME, everything else is a bonus for a child in my opinion. so whats important to you that your child wont just WANT but its a necessity in their lives. and see if you can provide that to them now or in the near future, or make a plan to get it to that point before you bring that child into the world. It's just the first step in good parenting in my eyes. Hard but necessary


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## toffee87

Each to their own 

For me I wanted to be married first (purely to get it out of the way, it's expensive!) and have a house. It's hard enough to save, so with a baby I thought it'd be too difficult, especially on my wage. Now, I just want to get down the credit card bill down and clear the overdraft! It seems like forever away :(


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## CeriseLapin

it's complicated and I'm not sure that what works for one would work for all, my college friends live in a small city cheap houses cheap works, so they own lovely houses and big yards but have dead end jobs and not a lot of options of education and activities. 

And bf and I live in one of the biggest cities in a great zone but we rent, and owning would have to wait a couple of years at least maybe more (small apartment might be in 200,000 dlls a nice one over 500,000) while my friends got houses for 40,000 but we have great schools (public and private) a lot of options and activities also we live really close to a buddhist center (our religious choice) in my home town there isn't any (surely they would get burned down) and I will be actually stepping down in my career so we could TTC and actually have time with future baby.

So who knows what is to be ready, maybe just lots of love and insurance.


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## babyfever91

In my opinion, I think people need to be clear in what they want from a thread. If they want supporters and people in the same situation, say so. This forum is all about opinions/experiences/choices. Also, people should respect eachother's choices and views. It may not be what we would do ourselves, but who are we to say someone is doing something the 'wrong' way? I don't think there is a right or wrong way of doing anything, it's what we choose is right for US.


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## Gunnhilde

babyfever91 said:


> In my opinion, I think people need to be clear in what they want from a thread. If they want supporters and people in the same situation, say so. This forum is all about opinions/experiences/choices. Also, people should respect eachother's choices and views. It may not be what we would do ourselves, but who are we to say someone is doing something the 'wrong' way? I don't think there is a right or wrong way of doing anything, it's what we choose is right for US.

It is my fault for not being clear, although I did try and clear it up to no avail.

I'll just stick to my journal for support from now on and not start any more threads. Problem solved. :winkwink:


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## Chai_w

i don't think those things are a necessity, but i do think it is nice to have them out of the way, less to have to worry about iykwim.

while i have no doubt that if we were to get pregnant earlier than planned that we would be just fine, i feel that we would be in a better place if we waited a lil(even tho waiting sucks and broodiness is a constant reminder that it would be fine).


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## waiting2start

i dont think so we dont plan on buying a house for some time i am half way threw school and my partner hasnt even started school yet or chosen a major but to us thats not a big deal if we waited until we were both done school and had a house and complealy on our feet my partner would be in her early 40's aand me in my mid 30's and both of us are not willing to wait that long


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## TwilightAgain

I don't think you have to be but it definitely wouldn't hurt. Its kinda less stress which I guess is what most of us want.

Some people I don't think could cope with a baby and university. I certainly couldn't, I can't imagine having a baby in my 3rd year and having to juggle being a mum with my studies, I figure it will be better in the long run if I can give my all to my degree and then my undivided attention to being a new parent.

As for the others things, its just stability isn't it? They're not a necessity to have a baby but having them set would take the stresses off and give the family unit a bit of security.

The wait sucks though :(


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## oceania

I think it's all personal. The reason why it's quite important for ME to finish my studies is that I already find it a struggle to combine a full-time job and finishing my master's degree. Also, I have a lot of debt (around 15000 euros of creditcard etc debt due to being stupid) that will be almost impossible to deal with unless I'm working full-time or atleast have a job to return to after 9 months of paid maternity leave. There are lots of openings in social work (I'm a social worker) and not so hard for me to get a permanent job once I graduate, but the job search is a lot harder on my DH and he does NOT want to be a stay-at-home dad. So we rely on my income a lot. If my DH had an awesome job then maybe it would be different, but I still want to finish my studies due to it being so hard already. I'm due to finish my studies in january 2013, and really wanna start trying for a bubba then :cloud9:


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## Luxoire

Gunnhilde said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that you don't have to be overly prepared for a child? As in, you can have a child before finishing university, buying house, having a lot of savings, or having a good career?
> 
> Maybe it is me feeling a little weird but I feel kind of out of place in that we'll be renting for a few (maybe many) years yet, OH isn't done with his apprenticeship, and I'm not done with university/grad school yet and don't plan to be for quite some time.
> 
> :wacko:

Funy thing is i used to think i had to have it all planned out house, car, career etc..before i had children. But the truth is the more i have thought about the kind of life i have had and the more I think about my relationship with God, the more I realise all those things would be good and ideal to have and God willing we will get there by the time baby arrives...

However, they do not affect our ability to love the child and bring it up in the way of the Lord. As long as we are able to feed and clothe the child without worrying too much about bills etc...that we are out all hours working and dont have enough time for the child - then we can do with postponing some of those achievements and God in His own time will bring them to us

Another thing that has helped me immensely is OH - wre i am a methodical planner and will plan every cent i have and minute i breathe....he is soo the opposite and so laid back its unbelievable. I am teaching him you have to plan in life and cant just leave things becuase you are comfortable now, and he is teaching me it is possible to enjoy the here and the now without planning it soo much and it is ok to not achieve some of those plans in time time you wanted - Life goes on, it is not perfect, but it goes on


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