# The great breast feeding vs bottle feeding debate...



## vikster

Just wondered what your thoughts/experiences are related to this.

I would like to start by saying that I am pro choice with this one and believe that you should do what is best for you, your baby and your circumstances. Just my opinion but as long as a child is being loved, cared for and fed well, it doesn't bother me whether people choose breast or formula.

When the time comes, I really want to breast feed but know that it is unlikely that I will be able to. I have Crohn's disease and this means that I am on medication for life. I will have to take my meds throughout pregnancy but after a long discussion with my consultant, he assures me that the drugs ate safe to take when pregnant because it doesn't pass through the placenta. The downside is that I have been told that I wouldn't be able to breast feed while taking the drugs :( I am a bit gutted as I really did want to try breast feeding but I could never risk the drugs being passed on to my newborn. It also isn't an option to come off the medication in order to breast feed because I could be very ill which would be no good for me of the baby.

Although I would like to breast feed but know that i can't, I was a formula fed baby and have turned out fine and lots of my friends couldn't manage it for various reasons and their kids are just fine too. My step sister breast fed my niece for 11 months very successfully so I saw the benefits of that first hand too. 


I know that this is a potentially controversial topic and like i said at the start of this post, i am pro choice so it is mainly out of interest, but I though I would start a conversation while I am sat on the sofa this morning! X


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## luvmyfam

So you already know you will be formula feeding then. Its nice that you already had this conversation with your doctors now about your meds and breastfeeding so that you can hopefully prepare yourself for formula feeding!

I always wanted to breastfeed and when I was pregnant with my first, formula wasn't even an option in my mind. It wasn't until my DS was about 5 days old that we realized there was a problem because he was dropping weight drastically! His doctor had me start supplementing him with formula . I started pumping every 2 hrs around the clock and after 5 weeks finally accepted that my body does not make breastmilk. I didn't even know that was possible!

I know how painful it is when you realize you can't provide breast milk for your babies. But my boys are so healthy and smart! When you can't provide breastmilk, formula is really just fine for your LO :)!
LO :).


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## Harveysmum369

I believe it's down to each woman and no one has the right to call anyone a bad mother if they choose to formula feed over breast feeding.x


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## Pearls18

I'm not pro choice if I'm honest with this lol and think every woman if emotionally and medically able to do so should try it and I just dont comprehend why people don't, formula is a substitute and not a terribly good one, only if breast milk isn't available. Breastfeeding was never a choice to me, it was my responsibility as a mother. I'm not going into the supply, latching issues etc just that initial giving it a try. Obviously formula in your case is what is better for your baby due to medication so there is no choice for you, just as there was no choice for me as no formula was better for my son than my milk. This is a very conterversial topic but I don't know why it should be if I'm honest.


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## vikster

Marine wag good on you for feeling so strongly about it and I agree that it shouldn't be a controversial topic too. It is one of those things that does get me down sometimes coz I really want to be able to breast feed, even if it wasn't successful, I at least want to be able to try but it just won't be possible due to being on medication. 

I love healthy debates, lets hope I've not opened a can of worms...*runs away and hides*


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## Caslynn

I believe that it is the woman's choice! I would like to give breastfeeding a try, but if I don't succeed I have no issues giving formula!


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## Dragonfly

Everyone forgets about donated milk and goes for formula after not being able or wanting to breastfeed. I hate that theres even a debate about this, breastfeeding is the normal way to feed your baby and formula is a substitute. You choose what you will but make sure you think about it hard first, at least give breastfeeding a try. You can always move to formula but its much harder to try and re lactate if you change your mind. There is loads of info on line for breastfeeding if you are in a bad area for help. Anecdotal evidence should not be used in such cases as this its to serious.


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## Amygdala

I'm sorry you won't be able to breastfeed despite wanting to. But don't dwell on it too much. I'm as pro-breastfeeding as they come but I can honestly say its not because of the wonderful experience some people seem to think it is. For me, it was always just a way to feed my baby, no more, no less. Not a magical bonding tool. I didn't spend the night gazing lovingly at my baby while she fed, I'd read emails and hope she finishes soon so I can get some sleep. :haha:
BUT, like someone else said, it was never a question for me either. I don't see formula as a choice, I see it as a (perfectly fine) substitute if nothing else works. If you're on meds, then obviously formula is the better option. But if you're healthy, I don't see why you would decide against giving your nutritionally perfectly balanced, free, always "on tap" milk. I obviously realise that there are several reasons, besides having to be on meds, why formula is the better option in some cases. But to me, wanting more freedom or wanting daddy to have more bonding time or finding it "weird" are not good reasons at all. Parenthood is sacrifice. A baby will depend on its mother physically and emotionally for the first months of life, wether she breastfeeds or not. "Freedom" is not an option, baby's needs come first. Same goes for daddy bonding or feeling weird about it. It's no longer about how you or baby's daddy feel, it's about giving baby what's best. 
We had to work very hard to get breastfeeding established and I'm so glad we persevered. Like I said, I never much "enjoyed" it. But I loved it because LO could feed wherever whenever, I never needed to worry about her eating too much or too little and she was hardly ever ill. Add to that that it didn't cost us a penny and we didn't need to bother with bottles etc and I'd do it the same again every time. 
One thing I think is important though is support. It's easy to say everyone should give it a go and nearly everyone can breastfeed if you have the right support. I know I couldn't have done it without my nct breastfeeding counsellor or the support of my DH and family. The only reason I persevered was their advice and understanding and my sheer bloody mindedness. Telling everyone it's easy is a very bad strategy I think. For a lot of people, starting out is hard. But the vast majority of them can be successful if supported properly and once it's established you really do see the rewards. 
Aaah, long story short: I think we need to stop making it an issue and get back to a culture where it's the default way of feeding a baby and then make sure mothers have access to the help they need to make it work.


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## lau86

I breastfed my first and would like to breastfeeding any future babies. I think everyone should have a go if possible as it is Tailor made for babies but I wouldn't force my opinion on anyone and if someone wants to ff that's not my business as far as I'm concerned! OP I'm sorry you'll miss out on breastfeeding but you'll still have a wonderful and healthy life with your baby


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## oceania

I dont have kids but I already know I wont be able to breastfeed due to breast hypoplasia, I dont have any milk glands in my boobies. And it makes me sad when women roll their eyes at formula feeding women because they cant know whats behind that and its VERY painful at us who cant even try. So thats why I'm pro choice all the way and I have already decided to sue the hospital if they give me poor treatment after my labour because of this or refuse to give me formula to feed my baby with, Ive heard of that happening.


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## staralfur

I do kind of have trouble accepting that some people don't breastfeed just because they don't feel like it. I don't understand why, if someone is physically able, they wouldn't at least give it a shot. 

But of course there are circumstances like yours in which formula is going to be what's best for you and your baby, and there's nothing wrong with that! :)


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## Mummy Bean

Well im kinda the odd one...i never had a prefence whilst preg and prob wouldnt have tried bf if it hadnt of been for this website. when i gave birth the nurse put him straight on the boob...i carried on for 6 days and tbh it was the worst thing eva...it hurt soo much, i couldnt do anything for more then 30min as he needed feeding again and i knew there was no way i could carry on.
Yes i know that the pain was due to incorrect latch which with the right help could have been fixed. and yes a new born needs his mum 24/7 but i knew then that bf was not me. 

I know that being a mother is looking after child to the best of your ability but there is no way i could have survived not having some 'me time' esp down the line. 

Im not stupid or uneducated and i know that breast is best on health grounds....but i dont see that in 5 yrs time when my son goes to school that those that were bf and those who were ff will be seperated....and the truth is later on down the line it really dosent matter what u choose. as long as the baby is well fed and loved that is all that matters. 

Ppl may see this response as irrespponsible on my behalf and so be it..but my son is just as loved and healthy as any breastfed baby...even tho i choose for no medical reason to stop bf.


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## robinator

While forums like this are good because it's full of information, they also do a disservice:

I wanted to exclusively BF my baby and tried my absolute effing best, including taking herbs and supplements, pumping for higher supply, etc. But from day one I had a supply issue. I was/am able to feed her mostly breastmilk, but she is supplemented by one FF bottle a day. Honestly, if it wasn't for bnb and the people who spout off at what a failure you must be/that you didn't "try" hard enough/etc, what should have been a logical choice to supplement was instead dealt with heartbreak and tears on my end.

I do believe BM is superior to FF, but when your body can't provide for whatever reason, then thank God for formula. And should you decide you need to do it, don't let anyone rain down their opinions that you somehow effed up and must not care about your child's wellbeing by giving them something that isn't what nature intended. I'd rather do that than starve my baby.

Sorry to get so heated, but I hate the thought of anyone else feeling like they are a failure because they end up needing formula like I did :nope:


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## Baby_Dust

I believe it is up to the individual woman an I disagree with the comment that formula isn't a very good substitute. My daughter has been exclusively formula fed, and is a happy, healthy and thriving nearly 11 month old. She doesn't get Ill and has never needed to see a doctor. But that's just my opinion :shrug:

I am/choose to formula feed as I didn't produce any milk. I don't feel guilty for not breast feeding, that's just how it is. It worked for our family and my daughter, who is perfect :) :flower:

Anyways breast or formula..... As long as baby and mummy are happy and healthy that's all that matters.


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## zoomlentil

I've never had a baby, so I guess I'll never really know until I get there, but I really want to BF. Unless there's medication/latching/production issues, I think it's probably best. My mum formula fed both her children, only because her partner didn't want anyone else but him having anything to do with her breasts! WTF? She has had breast cancer twice, and only has one boob left. She believes it has something to do with her not breastfeeding, but I have no idea if there's any scientific research that would back that opinion. I do remember seeing somewhere that the risk of breast cancer is reduced drastically if a woman breastfeeds, but I can't remember where I saw it.


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## CMarie

I feel pretty strongly about this so I hope I don't upset anyone. Like most of the others have said, I think that unless you have an issue (such as yourself) with breastfeeding than there's no reason to not at least try it. That said, I feel like some people try it and then give up to easily. When my son was born he had a terrible tongue tie that made it so painful for me to nurse him. This went on for 4 weeks until I saw a health visitor (for the 7th time because none of them believed how painful it was despite the bleeding, cracked nipples!) who referred me to a breastfeeding specialist. The previous health visitors all told me to give up breastfeeding if it was too painful and that my son never had a tongue tie, etc. Thankfully the breastfeeding specialist DID see the tongue tie and snipped. Ever since then breastfeeding has been amazing with my son. I'm not saying every woman's situation is like this, but I know a lot of women personally who give up breastfeeding just because their nurse/doctor/health visitor told them to if it was too hard and they don't research other options (such as getting tongue ties snippied, etc). It's sad to me that there's still not that solid support system I guess. 

As for formula, I would personally never use it if I could avoid it. If I couldn't breastfeed for some reason I would much rather use donor breastmilk :flower:


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## Amygdala

zoomlentil said:


> I've never had a baby, so I guess I'll never really know until I get there, but I really want to BF. Unless there's medication/latching/production issues, I think it's probably best. My mum formula fed both her children, only because her partner didn't want anyone else but him having anything to do with her breasts! WTF? She has had breast cancer twice, and only has one boob left. She believes it has something to do with her not breastfeeding, but I have no idea if there's any scientific research that would back that opinion. I do remember seeing somewhere that the risk of breast cancer is reduced drastically if a woman breastfeeds, but I can't remember where I saw it.

https://cancerhelp.cancerresearchuk...ow-is-breast-feeding-related-to-breast-cancer


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## Beaney192

I do think it is up to each individual. I personally breastfed my son for the first 3 months. I would have loved to have continued but wasn't possible after I found out he was lactose intolerant. I didn't have a problem with FF him and my partner also enjoyed feeding him.


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## Angelbaby_01

I honestly believe it's up for each mum's own decision.

I planned on BF my little one and when she was born I managed well, but due to circumstances I stressed a lot and my milk completely dried up. So we had to move over to FF. She is as healthy as a baby would be when being BF. So in my opinion it really is up to the mum.

With the next one I will defenitely consider BF again, but am open for anything that might change. I would just like to use a different fomula then as I had to stuck with what the hospital gave my baby and don't believe it is the best. I just didn't want to change her milk too much as it's been changed about 4 times in the first month.


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## phoenix333

I love breast feeding and there was no doubt in my mind that I wanted to give it a go. There is such a wealth of information out there that proves breast is best over formula and I would encourage anyone to at least give it a try. 

That being said there are many reasons why some people have to or chose to FF and I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for that. Everyones circumstances/experiences are different so each to their own.


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## aimee-lou

What is best for baby is best for Mum, and vice versa. In my case I really did not want to BF - I felt it was the wrong choice for me as a person, as a mother, and for us as a family. As it is, 2nd time around I had medical issues which meant that I was even more sure that FF was the right choice. I too have 2 very healthy children who were/are FF from birth. I have never regretted my choice, never had any problems from the formula (I know I'm lucky in that) and my bond with my babies is amazing. 

As it is, I believe that everyone has the right the make their own choices as a parent, and no-one should/can make them change their mind. Equally though, I don't think anyone should feel guilty about using formula to feed their child. They are simply feeding their child, responsibly taking their role as a parent seriously.


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## tearspawn

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.


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## Pearls18

tearspawn said:


> There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.

I completely disagree, I believe the baby's health is a lot more important that the mother's happiness. I hated breastfeeding, it hurt, I was shattered, I hated how I felt LO only wanted me for milk, but it doesn't matter what I felt I set him up for life with my milk. I think people should properly study the benefits of breast milk over formula before throwing around comments like 'I was fine' 'makes no difference' 'no difference by the age if 5'. If people actually studied the differences people would realise this is a matter of health. I will do exactly the same for the next baby, I wont begrudge a few months discomfort for health benefits that will stay will my son FOR LIFE. I have to this because I am a mother. I hate the way people assume because I BF for 9 months it was easy for me, it wasn't but I persevered, I honestly think BF dramatically altered my psychological health in a bad way for a short term, but I will do it all again because it isn't about me, there is no choice, formula is not an option it is a fall back if things go wrong, that's what it should be anyway and I believe everyone would realise this if they actually looked at what BM does.

Good on your sister she's sounds an incredible mum. You need to study about BM, the differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death- no exaggeration so please look at it first before going off what others say.


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## Mummy Bean

Alas my poor child has no hope then ...best call SS as im obviously not an actual mother.


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## Pearls18

Mummy Bean said:


> Alas my poor child has no hope then ...best call SS as im obviously not an actual mother.

I am just sick to my back teeth of people belittling the decision, and remarks like this do just that.


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## luvmyfam

Robinator, I totally agree. With both of my boys I gave everything to try and get milk in. With my second, since I knew it was an issue, I started pumping on day one. I literally never slept due to BF, supplementing with formula, then pumping, start over again! I even used a supplemental nursing system and funugreek, mothers milk tea ect. And I am a NICU nurse, so I just have it ingrained that breast is best. I had extreme guilt for not being able to provide breastmilk. It just makes me so mad when I hear women talking about how bad formula is, when I have no choice but to formula feed. 

CMarie, we use donor breastmilk in the NICU and not only is it in short supply but it is very expensive. Its about $200 for 3 ounces! Its well worth it for micropreemies born at 24 weeks, but late preemies and term babies are fine on formula!


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## luvmyfam

MarineWag, while breastmilk is a good choice for your baby, you shouldn't get upset at ppl for being offended when you tell them that what they are feeding their precious baby could harm them and even kill them.


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## Pearls18

The reason I talk about BF quite strongly, especially in this sub forum, isn't about guilt but trying to persuade and encourage women before thinking about it or while still doing it- if you've made the decision to switch to FF I don't care, that's not my business and if you feel guilty that's your issue I don't know what that feels like, but I will not sit back and listen to people constantly tell women it's near impossible to do, if as many women struggled 100 years ago as some people seem to today we would be extinct. Formula is not as good as breast milk, no where near as good, if it was frankly I wouldn't have breastfed. Every woman who tells someone not to worry what they 'choose' should think long and hard about what they are saying.


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## Amygdala

Luvmyfam, I don't think anyone's talking about formula being bad. They're talking about CHOOSING to formula feed for convenience/personal choice being bad, because breast milk is better for the baby. It's a fact that breast milk is best. That doesn't make formula bad, it's a fine substitute. But if you had a choice, why wouldn't you choose what will give baby the most benefits? IF you have a choice. If you don't, then OBVIOUSLY formula is the way to go and there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your baby that way.


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## aimee-lou

MarineWAG said:


> tearspawn said:
> 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.
> 
> I completely disagree, I believe the baby's health is a lot more important that the mother's happiness. I hated breastfeeding, it hurt, I was shattered, I hated how I felt LO only wanted me for milk, but it doesn't matter what I felt I set him up for life with my milk. I think people should properly study the benefits of breast milk over formula before throwing around comments like 'I was fine' 'makes no difference' 'no difference by the age if 5'. If people actually studied the differences people would realise this is a matter of health. I will do exactly the same for the next baby, I wont begrudge a few months discomfort for health benefits that will stay will my son FOR LIFE. I have to this because I am a mother. I hate the way people assume because I BF for 9 months it was easy for me, it wasn't but I persevered, I honestly think BF dramatically altered my psychological health in a bad way for a short term, but I will do it all again because it isn't about me, there is no choice, formula is not an option it is a fall back if things go wrong, that's what it should be anyway and I believe everyone would realise this if they actually looked at what BM does.
> 
> Good on your sister she's sounds an incredible mum. You need to study about BM, the differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death- no exaggeration so please look at it first before going off what others say.Click to expand...

Totally respect your decision, but I think everyone has the right to decide based on their own factors. Personally a healthy mum is more able to look after her baby....and that's what I prioritised. I can totally see where you're coming from - as you say from a biological POV our job as a mother is to feed and nurture our children, but in my view this is what I have done by providing food for my children. :shrug:

Hats off to your for persevering though - I know a lot of women who haven't been able to do it so it really is an achievement to be proud of.


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## Pearls18

aimee-lou said:


> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tearspawn said:
> 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.
> 
> I completely disagree, I believe the baby's health is a lot more important that the mother's happiness. I hated breastfeeding, it hurt, I was shattered, I hated how I felt LO only wanted me for milk, but it doesn't matter what I felt I set him up for life with my milk. I think people should properly study the benefits of breast milk over formula before throwing around comments like 'I was fine' 'makes no difference' 'no difference by the age if 5'. If people actually studied the differences people would realise this is a matter of health. I will do exactly the same for the next baby, I wont begrudge a few months discomfort for health benefits that will stay will my son FOR LIFE. I have to this because I am a mother. I hate the way people assume because I BF for 9 months it was easy for me, it wasn't but I persevered, I honestly think BF dramatically altered my psychological health in a bad way for a short term, but I will do it all again because it isn't about me, there is no choice, formula is not an option it is a fall back if things go wrong, that's what it should be anyway and I believe everyone would realise this if they actually looked at what BM does.
> 
> Good on your sister she's sounds an incredible mum. You need to study about BM, the differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death- no exaggeration so please look at it first before going off what others say.Click to expand...
> 
> Totally respect your decision, but I think everyone has the right to decide based on their own factors. Personally a healthy mum is more able to look after her baby....and that's what I prioritised. I can totally see where you're coming from - as you say from a biological POV our job as a mother is to feed and nurture our children, but in my view this is what I have done by providing food for my children. :shrug:
> 
> Hats off to your for persevering though - I know a lot of women who haven't been able to do it so it really is an achievement to be proud of.Click to expand...

In my first post I did say women who were emotionally and medically able as I understand it is incredibly emotionally draining that not everybody has the mental health to do, so I'm not saying baby has to come above everything, I would say I had mild PND (not diagnosed) that was probably exasperated by BF but not to the point I should have stopped, in my case my happiness didn't need to come first but for the sake of health for others it does and I understand that.


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## LegoHouse

I have psychological issues with breastfeeding. My son isn't gaining weight very well, and if they diagnose him with failure to thrive and I have to give him formula I will feel like a failure because people like MYSELF go around telling people that breast is best all the time. I do think breast is best. I do think if I have to give my son formula I will feel like a pile of crap. But I don't want anyone else to feel like that. I want people to feel like they have a choice, and they can make their own decisions without someone typing them down everywhere they look. Honestly until you have been in a position where you need to get off your high horse and think that in some cases formula is actually better for the baby then you have no idea.


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## staralfur

I've already said that I think everyone should give it a chance (unless you're on medication or something like the OP), and I 100% stand by that. I remember reading posts in third tri where ladies weren't even breastfeeding ONCE, not even for colostrum, because they just didn't want to. And that actually makes me a bit upset...but ultimately, it's got nothing to do with me. 

I do somewhat disagree with continuing breastfeeding if it makes the mother miserable. I know that some ladies get severely depressed while struggling with breastfeeding and I don't believe it's worth practically killing yourself over. 

Have I had an easy time breastfeeding? Not even close. But I was always mentally stable and knew that I could make it through. That's not the case for everyone, and I do think that if it reaches a point where their relationship with their baby is going to suffer, that formula is a decent alternative.


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## Amygdala

MarineWAG, I understand your reasons but I think you'll find people will get very defensive about choosing (or feeling they had to) FF. I agree that breastfeeding has great benefits and that the vast majority of women can if supported properly and if they're willing to stick with it through the tough times. But getting people riled up about it is only going to make the less likely to want to engage with the topic. As sad as it is, there's definitely an element of defiance against "best advice" nowadays because women can feel bullied into breastfeeding. You can't force people to see things your way, all you can do is give help when asked for it.


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## Pearls18

If drilling the message of breast is best into the public means some people get fed up of it because it upsets them I'm sorry but that isn't my problem, I'd rather the message got out there to as many people as possible I don't think FF should be normalised any more than it is, if it hurts people that much don't go into threads like this. I'm sorry I'm not trying to upset anyone but I will never ever change my opinion or actions because I would like as many women to BF as possible.


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## LegoHouse

So would I, but now I'm on the other side I realise the damage it does. I hope you never have to feel the same. Normalising breastfeeding by just doing it and not preaching is much more beneficial.


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## Pearls18

Amygdala said:


> MarineWAG, I understand your reasons but I think you'll find people will get very defensive about choosing (or feeling they had to) FF. I agree that breastfeeding has great benefits and that the vast majority of women can if supported properly and if they're willing to stick with it through the tough times. But getting people riled up about it is only going to make the less likely to want to engage with the topic. As sad as it is, there's definitely an element of defiance against "best advice" nowadays because women can feel bullied into breastfeeding. You can't force people to see things your way, all you can do is give help when asked for it.

This is true, it's just difficult when you are so passionate about something when it feels like others don't give a damn (not people here). I don't normally contribute to these threads anymore but feel WTT is the place to try and get the message across, but I obviously have the wrong approach.


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## Amygdala

I'm with you on your goals but I don't think "drilling in the message" is going to achieve anything. People know that breast milk is best for baby. If you tell mothers that what they're doing is wrong and bad for their baby, they're going to shut off and stop listening. You need to be more subtle, and frankly more sensitive, to get that particular message across. 
This isn't about knowing the facts. It's about changing a culture where formula is seen as the norm. You're fighting against decades of formula manufacturers' propaganda and societal pressure. You can't force people to change their beliefs, and you can't expect them to listen to your reasons if you alienate them by telling them they're wrong.


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## Pearls18

Amygdala said:


> I'm with you on your goals but I don't think "drilling in the message" is going to achieve anything. People know that breast milk is best for baby. If you tell mothers that what they're doing is wrong and bad for their baby, they're going to shut off and stop listening. You need to be more subtle, and frankly more sensitive, to get that particular message across.
> This isn't about knowing the facts. It's about changing a culture where formula is seen as the norm. You're fighting against decades of formula manufacturers' propaganda and societal pressure. You can't force people to change their beliefs, and you can't expect them to listen to your reasons if you alienate them by telling them they're wrong.

Like I said I'm not trying to tell people what they are doing is wrong, I don't care if they have gone to FF that isn't who I'm preaching to, but as soon as you try and talk about BF people jump in and make it sound impossible, I understand they come from a good place and the full picture should be seen but wish people would think about the impact of what they say could have on someone making 'the choice'. Having said that I obviously need to be more mindful of what I say because while I am not aiming my posts at FFers I understand it can seem personal and harsh to them.


----------



## Amygdala

BTW, I understand what you mean MarineWAG. I am damn proud of having managed over a year of breastfeeding after pretty much going to hell and back in the first few weeks. It is one of my proudest achievements as a mother, and as a person. And I get how upsetting it is to hear "formula is just as good", because it can sound like it's belittling your achievement, like people are saying "you silly woman, why ever would you bother?". They aren't though, and even if they were, it would take nothing away from you having given your child a great start. You know how much your hard work means and that's all that should matter, don't let others' points of view get you down.


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## Mummy Bean

I dont see how u think by outrightly saying that us ff are physically harming our child...is a) not offensive and b) going to convert any one.

I chose to switch to ff so early as i knew i could not mentally handlr the pressure that bf puts on you as mother. So having some one on a forum put so bluntly that im harming my child in doing so.is quite painful to hear.

If u are on a crusade to convice ppl to choose bf then perhaps support, share stories how special bf is, tips on how u coped with the bad times...rather providing a suck it up and get on with it attitude. 

And if u look the op asked for ppl on both sides to give the opinion and experiences, she didnt ask for just bf.


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## Pearls18

Amygdala said:


> BTW, I understand what you mean MarineWAG. I am damn proud of having managed over a year of breastfeeding after pretty much going to hell and back in the first few weeks. It is one of my proudest achievements as a mother, and as a person. And I get how upsetting it is to hear "formula is just as good", because it can sound like it's belittling your achievement, like people are saying "you silly woman, why ever would you bother?". They aren't though, and even if they were, it would take nothing away from you having given your child a great start. You know how much your hard work means and that's all that should matter, don't let others' points of view get you down.

Thank you, I'll learn some diplomatic lessons from you lol. Just to reiterate to others I'm not saying formula is 'bad' (my son has had it, I stopped at 9 months) it's just that BM is so much better.


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## aidensxmomma

I am still debating whether I'm going to breastfeed or bottlefeed my next baby. 

With my son, I didn't even attempt to breastfeed. I just didn't want to do it. I don't think I made the wrong decision either. It was something I was really uncomfortable with and I know it would have caused some issues for me if I was more or less forced into trying it. 

With my first daughter, I breastfed her for three months. TBH, I really struggled with my psychological health while breastfeeding. I suffer from depression and have since my teens and breastfeeding seemed to make it worse for me. But I kept trying and kept trying until I just couldn't do it anymore because my depression got so bad. It got to the point where I cried every time she wanted to eat because I felt so bad. And honestly even at that point I still really struggled with the thought of switching her over to formula. But in the end, it was what was best for all of us. Once we switched her over to formula, my mood improved drastically and it was better for me, FOB, her, and my son.

Despite my problems breastfeeding my first daughter, I decided to try breastfeeding my second daughter as well. I made it three weeks before I couldn't do it anymore. I ran into the exact same problems I had breastfeeding my first daughter except this time they came on a lot quicker. So we switched her to formula and, once again, it was a lot better for my entire family.

That all being said, I do believe breast is best and that everyone who is able should give breastfeeding a chance. But I also believe that there is nothing wrong with switching to formula if you feel that breastfeeding is not what is best for your situation or your family.


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## Pearls18

Mummy Bean said:


> I dont see how u think by outrightly saying that us ff are physically harming our child...is a) not offensive and b) going to convert any one.
> 
> I chose to switch to ff so early as i knew i could not mentally handlr the pressure that bf puts on you as mother. So having some one on a forum put so bluntly that im harming my child in doing so.is quite painful to hear.
> 
> If u are on a crusade to convice ppl to choose bf then perhaps support, share stories how special bf is, tips on how u coped with the bad times...rather providing a suck it up and get on with it attitude.
> 
> And if u look the op asked for ppl on both sides to give the opinion and experiences, she didnt ask for just bf.

Formula doesn't physically harm your child, you're twisting my words, but breast milk can prevent physical harm that occurs naturally that formula can not- there is a difference. I hated breastfeeding, I'm not going to lie and tell wonderful stories about it, so all I can do is reiterate how good the milk is. We will never agree because I believe in healthy (mentally and physically) women there isn't two sides. But in case you haven't noticed I'm bowing out...


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## gryphongrl

staralfur said:


> I've already said that I think everyone should give it a chance (unless you're on medication or something like the OP), and I 100% stand by that. I remember reading posts in third tri where ladies weren't even breastfeeding ONCE, not even for colostrum, because they just didn't want to. And that actually makes me a bit upset...but ultimately, it's got nothing to do with me.

Yes, this... 

Ladies decide they are not going to even attempt to BF because it's "weird" or vaguely sexual-seeming, or because their partners will be "left out" if they cannot split the feedings. Similarly there are ladies who do not want to even attempt labor so they schedule surgery without a medical need. I put both of these things in the same pot, and figure these decisions probably originate out of fear. Excuse the generalization, but I notice that a lot of times these actions are taken by young mothers or women who are without supportive mothers to guide and reassure. (I've heard of women not being allowed to BF at family events unless they leave the room, for example.) Our western birthing culture can be pretty screwed up with all the weird sexualization of breasts and drama surrounding birthing scenes on tv, etc. The best we can do for the young ladies who see us give birth / BF is to let them see how wonderful it is, leading by example.


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## Pearls18

I'm sorry I turned this into a debate not a healthy discussion OP.


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## staralfur

gryphongrl said:


> staralfur said:
> 
> 
> I've already said that I think everyone should give it a chance (unless you're on medication or something like the OP), and I 100% stand by that. I remember reading posts in third tri where ladies weren't even breastfeeding ONCE, not even for colostrum, because they just didn't want to. And that actually makes me a bit upset...but ultimately, it's got nothing to do with me.
> 
> Yes, this...
> 
> Ladies decide they are not going to even attempt to BF because it's "weird" or vaguely sexual-seeming, or because their partners will be "left out" if they cannot split the feedings. Similarly there are ladies who do not want to even attempt labor so they schedule surgery without a medical need. I put both of these things in the same pot, and figure these decisions probably originate out of fear. *Excuse the generalization, but I notice that a lot of times these actions are taken by young mothers or women who are without supportive mothers to guide and reassure.* (I've heard of women not being allowed to BF at family events unless they leave the room, for example.) Our western birthing culture can be pretty screwed up with all the weird sexualization of breasts and drama surrounding birthing scenes on tv, etc. The best we can do for the young ladies who see us give birth / BF is to let them see how wonderful it is, leading by example.Click to expand...

Yep, agreed. 

When I first found out I was pregnant I was 22 and had NO intention of breastfeeding. I was out with a few friends and one asked me if I would be breastfeeding and I said "definitely not" and they all agreed that they wouldn't either. 

I decided in the end to just give it a shot, and here we are almost seven months later still going and it has become so important to me. 

I saw that same friend a few months ago and she was SHOCKED to see me breastfeeding (I fed right in front of her). I talked about how much I actually loved it and I can only hope that I changed her mind to give it a chance when the time comes too. :thumbup:


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## Pearls18

I was a young mum (22) but all the women in my family breastfed so there was never a question of what I'd do so I agree your own 'culture' is a massive part but ironically my mum was really eager for me to stop when she saw me struggling so much, I guess when it's your 'baby' in pain/discomfort you just want the best for them.


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## KiwiMOM

I'm ina similar situation to marineWAG. In the beginning I cried whenever she stirred because I knew I'd have to feed her. It was really hard but I had so many mothers around me telling me it would get better if I kept trying. I'm 19 and breastfeed in front of my friends because I want them to know its not something to hide away or keep you home. Its super convenient actually. I'm on my phone so I can't say everything I want. I just wish bfing was seen more as 'the way babies get fed' and formula as the synthetic backup plan it should be. Does that mean people whohave to ff are bad parents? No, white the oppositebecauseit means they've done the best for their situation. My 2 cents!


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## diamond0405

well breast feedng is cheaper because you dont have to buy as much formula or formula at all. but it all depends on the preference of the mom. as long as the baby is being fed then thats all that should matter :winkwink:lol

p.s breast feeding helps you lose weight after having the baby. so if you want to lose weight faster you should definently breast feed . lol


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## luvmyfam

Amygdala said:


> Luvmyfam, I don't think anyone's talking about formula being bad. They're talking about CHOOSING to formula feed for convenience/personal choice being bad, because breast milk is better for the baby.


She IS talking about it being bad. She said "The differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death". Is that supposed to make us FF feel any better:shrug:!


MarineWag why would you ever say "*if you feel guilty that's your issue I don't know what that feels like". *That is extremely rude and hurtful. You act as if I chose to give my boys formula easily.If your not trying to offend people then maybe you should re-think your words! 
You don't know me. You don't even begin to comprehend how much I put in to trying to provide breast milk for my two boys. Some people thought I was crazy even trying the second time around becaue I had NO MILK the first time. But I chugged along, knowing that I wanted to provide breastmilk for # 2. If you think its EASY to pump and direct breastfeed for weeks and weeks and still have NO supply you are wrong. Sitting attached to a pump while crying and not getting anything out is depressing. And if you think it was EASY for me to finally accept that my body just doesn't make milk you're wrong. You are LUCKY your body made milk for your baby and you didn't have to go through what I went through. 


Of course I believe that breast milk is the best thing for our little ones. But I'm not going to tell someone that CAN'T breastfeed due to medical issues that the formula she is going to feed her baby is bad.


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## Amygdala

Luvmyfam, I agree MarineWAG's words were poorly chosen. What I was trying to point out above is that the discussion is concerning choosing to formula feed over breastfeeding. You didn't choose formula, it was the only option in your situation. I know what it feels like to pump and get nothing and for your baby to be losing weight. I only had 4 or 5 days of that and it nearly killed me so I think I understand the feelings that come with having to accept that it's not going to work. The point here is though, that while we should be careful of others' feelings and shouldn't make mothers who couldn't breastfeed feel second-best, we also shouldn't pretend that it's all the same and there's no benefits to breast milk over formula, because this is likely to make women who can breastfeed decide that it's not worth it. It's a delicate balance, especially as this is such an emotionally charged topic for most women. So I think it's important that we choose our words wisely, all of us, whatever our standpoint.


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## Pearls18

luvmyfam said:


> Amygdala said:
> 
> 
> Luvmyfam, I don't think anyone's talking about formula being bad. They're talking about CHOOSING to formula feed for convenience/personal choice being bad, because breast milk is better for the baby.
> 
> 
> She IS talking about it being bad. She said "The differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death". Is that supposed to make us FF feel any better:shrug:!
> 
> 
> MarineWag why would you ever say "*if you feel guilty that's your issue I don't know what that feels like". *That is extremely rude and hurtful. You act as if I chose to give my boys formula easily.If your not trying to offend people then maybe you should re-think your words!
> You don't know me. You don't even begin to comprehend how much I put in to trying to provide breast milk for my two boys. Some people thought I was crazy even trying the second time around becaue I had NO MILK the first time. But I chugged along, knowing that I wanted to provide breastmilk for # 2. If you think its EASY to pump and direct breastfeed for weeks and weeks and still have NO supply you are wrong. Sitting attached to a pump while crying and not getting anything out is depressing. And if you think it was EASY for me to finally accept that my body just doesn't make milk you're wrong. You are LUCKY your body made milk for your baby and you didn't have to go through what I went through.
> 
> 
> Of course I believe that breast milk is the best thing for our little ones. But I'm not going to tell someone that CAN'T breastfeed due to medical issues that the formula she is going to feed her baby is bad.Click to expand...

Because I don't, that's not why I'm in this thread and I am fed up of having to hear why every Tom Dick and Harry switched to formula when I have said a million times that is not who my posts are aimed at, it's about that initial 'choice' that I don't personally comprehend, I can not be bothered to select my words carefully when I am going around in circles you get my point now, that's all I wanted!!


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## vikster

Marine wag, no need to apologise to me as the OP Hun. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I did ask for people's thoughts and experiences so keep them coming! 

I have really enjoyed reading everyone's posts but one thing I will be doing is speaking to my consultant again when I do get pregnant and doing plenty of research into the drug that I am on to see if there is any way that I can breast feed. He has pretty much said no but i wont just let it go because i do want to BF. If it absolutely isnt safe for the baby, which is what i have been led to believe by the doc, formula it is for me! X


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## luvmyfam

Vikster do you have lactation consultants in the UK? If you do, and you are still not sure if this med you are on is a definite no for BF, I would contact a LC. They usually have updated books as to what drugs are safe to use while BFing.


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## Amygdala

vikster said:


> Marine wag, no need to apologise to me as the OP Hun. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I did ask for people's thoughts and experiences so keep them coming!
> 
> I have really enjoyed reading everyone's posts but one thing I will be doing is speaking to my consultant again when I do get pregnant and doing plenty of research into the drug that I am on to see if there is any way that I can breast feed. He has pretty much said no but i wont just let it go because i do want to BF. If it absolutely isnt safe for the baby, which is what i have been led to believe by the doc, formula it is for me! X

If you'd like more information, the Breastfeeding Network have a dedicated hotline for drugs and breastfeeding. The number is in the bottom right corner of this leaflet: https://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/pdfs/BfN_how_safe_is_leaflet_2009.pdf

I'd also highly recommend contacting your local nct (google nct and your county/area). They have breastfeeding advisors who are worth their weight in gold!

Often these dedicated charities have more knowledge and ideas for making it work than many doctors but of course the decision should be made with your consultants approval in the end. Best of luck with this but don't be disheartened if it turns out you have to be on medication that's not safe. Breastfeeding is awesome but formula is a pretty good substitute these days.


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## Angelbaby_01

MarineWAG said:


> tearspawn said:
> 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.
> 
> I completely disagree, I believe the baby's health is a lot more important that the mother's happiness. I hated breastfeeding, it hurt, I was shattered, I hated how I felt LO only wanted me for milk, but it doesn't matter what I felt I set him up for life with my milk. I think people should properly study the benefits of breast milk over formula before throwing around comments like 'I was fine' 'makes no difference' 'no difference by the age if 5'. If people actually studied the differences people would realise this is a matter of health. I will do exactly the same for the next baby, I wont begrudge a few months discomfort for health benefits that will stay will my son FOR LIFE. I have to this because I am a mother. I hate the way people assume because I BF for 9 months it was easy for me, it wasn't but I persevered, I honestly think BF dramatically altered my psychological health in a bad way for a short term, but I will do it all again because it isn't about me, there is no choice, formula is not an option it is a fall back if things go wrong, that's what it should be anyway and I believe everyone would realise this if they actually looked at what BM does.
> 
> Good on your sister she's sounds an incredible mum. You need to study about BM, the differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death- no exaggeration so please look at it first before going off what others say.Click to expand...

I must say that I was blessed with loads of milk initially, but unfortunately I couldn't go on. I also learned not to set my heart on anything. As far as my daughter concern - I tried my very best, but due to the stress of her being in hospital my milk dried up. Yes, we could get going again, but in this case it was better for my little one to have formula milk instead of having the frustration of working for breast milk. I wish people will stop judging those that don't breastfeed. I had enough of my so called "friends" making me feel guilty as where we knew it was the best for her.

I have a friend that had all the good intentions, but her baby just didn't pick up her weight the way she was suppose to. My other friend just never had milk. All three of us are being judged by society. My baby is perfectly fine. She doesn't get sick at all and is actually healthier that my friend's that does breastfeed her little baby.

:flower:


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## Eline

I am pro choice on this one. I also would like to breastfeed and will be disappointed if it wouldn't be possible. I do believe breastfeeding has advantages for your baby's health. I think it's important that hospitals offer information about breastfeeding to moms and that they advise breastfeeding.
However, I also think that being a mom can be very difficult and stressfull, especially with your first baby. You have a lot of questions and insecurities. That's why I'm really opposed to the more agressive breastfeeding propaganda groups you see nowadays. Even if they don't intend to, they will make young moms feel guilty and insecure if they - for one reason or another - choose not to breastfeed. I do think that the fysical and mental wellbeing of the mother is important for the baby as well.


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## Faythe

Can I just say, for those who can't BF, there are people out there (such as myself) who donate breastmilk...


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## luvmyfam

Faythe said:


> Can I just say, for those who can't BF, there are people out there (such as myself) who donate breastmilk...

As I said before... at least here in the states it is extremely expensive at $200 for 3 ounces. Its mostly for hospital use and is also in short supply.


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## Faythe

Here in the UK there's a group called Human Milk 4 Human Babies where women can share/donate breastmilk between themselves.

Also Milk Banks too but I think that's for hospital use only and as far as I am aware they do not charge.

So UK ladies, if you can't breastfeed try contacting HM4HB for a donor


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## Angelbaby_01

My question is. Hygiene? How is it processed?

Sorry, don't want to come over harsh or rude. I am just very paticular about hygiene.


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## gryphongrl

Angelbaby_01 said:


> My question is. Hygiene? How is it processed?
> 
> Sorry, don't want to come over harsh or rude. I am just very paticular about hygiene.

Depends on the milk bank. Around here, the milk is pasteurized and the donors are tested. This milk is truely about $3 an ounce. Another option is community based sharing. The community based exchanges are not tested as part of a routine, but you usually have the opportunity to interview the donor and find out about their lifestyle. Usually the donor is also feeding their baby with this milk, which is some assurance of safety. The donors may have infectious disease testing done anyway (since they were just pregnant). Especially if my baby were premature, I would go this route because the breastmilk is so valuable to a preemie and the pasteurizing seems to decrease some of the value of the breastmilk.


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## Angelbaby_01

gryphongrl said:


> Angelbaby_01 said:
> 
> 
> My question is. Hygiene? How is it processed?
> 
> Sorry, don't want to come over harsh or rude. I am just very paticular about hygiene.
> 
> Depends on the milk bank. Around here, the milk is pasteurized and the donors are tested. This milk is truely about $3 an ounce. Another option is community based sharing. The community based exchanges are not tested as part of a routine, but you usually have the opportunity to interview the donor and find out about their lifestyle. Usually the donor is also feeding their baby with this milk, which is some assurance of safety. The donors may have infectious disease testing done anyway (since they were just pregnant). Especially if my baby were premature, I would go this route because the breastmilk is so valuable to a preemie and the pasteurizing seems to decrease some of the value of the breastmilk.Click to expand...

To me it's more the concern of hygiene after been expressed. To be honest I really don't see the harm in FF when BF is not option health wise. Personally I would not take the risk. Just my personal opinion.


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## Faythe

There are strict ways to how the bm is stored after being expressed


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## vikster

Thanks so much for the info on lactation consultants and nct, I didn't know about these agencies so will definitely look in to them. This is why I love baby and bump! X


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## luvmyfam

gryphongrl said:


> Angelbaby_01 said:
> 
> 
> My question is. Hygiene? How is it processed?
> 
> Sorry, don't want to come over harsh or rude. I am just very paticular about hygiene.
> 
> Depends on the milk bank. Around here, the milk is pasteurized and the donors are tested. This milk is truely about $3 an ounce. Another option is community based sharing. The community based exchanges are not tested as part of a routine, but you usually have the opportunity to interview the donor and find out about their lifestyle. Usually the donor is also feeding their baby with this milk, which is some assurance of safety. The donors may have infectious disease testing done anyway (since they were just pregnant). Especially if my baby were premature, I would go this route because the breastmilk is so valuable to a preemie and the pasteurizing seems to decrease some of the value of the breastmilk.Click to expand...


I am an RN and work mostly with babies born 23-26 weeks gestation. The donor breast milk we feed these micro preemies is tested and pasturized. Only safe way IMO. They grow just fine with it.


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## KiwiMOM

I donate milk here in NZ too :flower: I've donated to a woman who has had a double mastectomy. Her son hasn't had a drop of formula and is still going strong on donated milk jeez, he must be 3-4 now? Here the woman can ask for the blood work of the donor mom, or any questions thy like. My milk is stored in clean, sterile containers (we just take new sample cups from the hospital) and I obviously sterilize my pump after using it. I store it in my freezer until a friend comes and puts it in a large deep freeze she has just for milk storage and drops it to who ever needs it. Another friend I have hand expresses into a few ice cube trays and then dumps the ice cubes into bags. The goal is to donate 1 feed a day, although I haven't been pumping much lately due to a backlog of milk in my freezer! That means each woman needs 6-7 donors. Although often people pumping for their baby in the NICU or when BFing is getting established donate huge amounts of milk they'll never use. I'd suggest "human milk 4 human babies" as well as "eats on feets" fb page :)


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## Dragonfly

Faythe said:


> Here in the UK there's a group called Human Milk 4 Human Babies where women can share/donate breastmilk between themselves.
> 
> Also Milk Banks too but I think that's for hospital use only and as far as I am aware they do not charge.
> 
> So UK ladies, if you can't breastfeed try contacting HM4HB for a donor

I am admin of our local one and matched up some girls there and they arranged their own screening through milk banks, I believe it was free all the way.


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## MummyToAmberx

At end of the day some women were just not made to breastfed, most annoying part of it is a lot of people will not just accept this! 

Even women who can't for health reasons are still made to be bad guy i think this needs to change and quick!


I wanted to try breastfeeding but i never felt it would be something i'd do long term, because i didn't feel comfortable with doing it. I managed 4 days with my first before i was too exhuasted, very emotional because on another planet. I was 18 at the time had been up for 4 days, my first born didn't sleep a wink through the night. 

I had higher hopes for #2 it lasted 1 week but again just wasn't for me just didn't feel right. 

I will try again for the third and see what happens.


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## Dragonfly

MummyToAmberx said:


> At end of the day some women were just not made to breastfed, most annoying part of it is a lot of people will not just accept this!
> 
> Even women who can't for health reasons are still made to be bad guy i think this needs to change and quick!
> 
> .

I think that's why people are suggesting the third form of feeding here which is donated milk.


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## Lady_Bee

I think it's pretty cool that some people get to give their kids another woman's breastmilk without ever a drop of formula. But let's not pretend that's a realistic and/or remotely practical option for everyone. Analytical Armadillo did a great post about this.

Anyway.

Formula is an acceptable substitute for breast milk.

Also, at the end of the day it's really nobody else's business how your kid is fed. Breast-fed children thrive. Formula-fed children thrive. Everyone is doing the best they can at the end of the day. :shrug:

And that's all I have to say about that. :coffee:


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## Faythe

Dragonfly said:


> Faythe said:
> 
> 
> Here in the UK there's a group called Human Milk 4 Human Babies where women can share/donate breastmilk between themselves.
> 
> Also Milk Banks too but I think that's for hospital use only and as far as I am aware they do not charge.
> 
> So UK ladies, if you can't breastfeed try contacting HM4HB for a donor
> 
> I am admin of our local one and matched up some girls there and they arranged their own screening through milk banks, I believe it was free all the way.Click to expand...

That's brill :D

I've just found a lady through HM4HB to take some of my stash in my freezer :happydance:


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## Faythe

For the record, I am not saying those that can't/don't BF should find a BM donor instead of formula. I was just pointing out that it is an option as alot of women do not know about donor milk and if they can find someone who can pump for them then it's another option.


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## Quackquack99

i think its good that a third is available but it isnt something id consider personally. If i did then id want the person to be fully and then rgularly screened. But its a great option for other motherrs.


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## mummy3

Definately breastfeeding here:thumbup:

i've spent most of my 20s breastfeeding (4 kids, all fed to self weaning, 19m old still going strong though) and have been through pretty much any complication/issue you can think of but still wouldn't change my mind. OP definately check out whether your meds are safe or if there's a safer alternative perhaps?

Breastfeeding is a very personal thing for sure, some moms really take to it, others dont but if you haven't already decided to FF for medical/personal reasons, please try it. Those first few feeds are so beneficial to baby and you never know you may find you love it and really take to it, definately better realising sooner than have to relactate!


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## KiwiMOM

I'm sick of people assuming people who support breastfeeding look down on Mom's who FF! Yes, sometimes I believe with more/better support someone FF could have been successful at BFing and the number of people who end up exclusively FF vs the number of people with real supply issues not matching up makes me very sad but I and lots of my friends who have had "nazi" and all sorts of horrible names thrown at us would not "rather see babies starve" as some people seem to imply. People who are pro-breastfeeding are NOT anti-formula. Maybe there are a couple out there but so far I haven't run into any!

Sorry, that aside: If you're comfortable with it OP, there are plenty of people who will donate their milk to you for free (you may need to pay postage), they can supply medical history and blood work, as well as info about their diet, age of their baby or whatever makes you comfortable. I'd definitely do a little research onto what medication you're on and breastfeeding, and maybe ask for a few opinions from a few different dr's. You'd be surprised how little medication actually gets into your breastmilk and also how little some Dr's know about that.


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## Dragonfly

Some interesting info. :flower:
 



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## Faythe

Dragonfly said:


> Some interesting info. :flower:

It's too small to read :(


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## Dragonfly

I know :( but there is a pdf to read. https://www.lllhk.org/WBW-2012-Poster-English.pdf


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## Faythe

Thank you - info like that keeps me going with expressing :)


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## stephj25

I am currently breastfeeding and I love it. I will definately be breastfeeding my 2nd. The only problem I have is that LO refuses bottles so I have to be with her 24/7. I'm exhausted!!! I wish I started combi feeding early on so that we wouldn't have this problem now!!


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## Ladybuggz

I can't speak from experience as I've yet to have my first baby. I watched a great documentary on breast vs formula a few weeks ago. Ideally I'd love to breast feed for around a good year however I understand that that's not always possible. I think it's great if people could give it a try, but don't feel guilty or ashamed if you're unable to BF. I think that if it's simply a matter of feeling embarassed (on the documentary, many mums to be said that there friends hadn't breastfed so they wouldn't as it didn't seem natural), then you should stick with it as long as possible. Sometimes the baby wasn't latching correctly, which caused unnecessary pain, making BF really difficult. Many women on the programme went to support groups and learnt to BF more comfortably, which really encouraged them to continue.


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## Becki.S

Personally for me i am really excited at the thought of BF (weird???).
When I was younger I always thought that it would be strange and that I would FF, but for me that shows that I wasn't ready to be a mother, however it was also as I had never seen anyone BF, the culture seemed to be FF.
My mother BF all 3 of her children, and was really upset that she had to stop BF my brother at 6 weeks.
Nowadays I feel strongly about BF it is tailor made for your baby and has sooo many health benefits for mother and baby. I watched my SIL BF my niece for 5 months and strangely enough I was really jealous that she was getting the experience (probably down to my broodiness!), and looking forward to BF seems to be a big part of what I am looking forward to with having a baby. I know how hard it can be for some people my BFF didn't have the support and therefore wasn't able to, I really feel that there should be lots more support out there for people to access more easily. I know that I will be really dissapointed if I am unable to BF.
However I will be FF once a day as I know people who have had difficulties where they have suddenly had to stop and their babies refused FF and started to become poorly as they were so used to BF (not trying to scare people and this doesn't always happen, just a fear for me as I have seen this happen), because of this I will be providing my future baby with 1 bottle a day from someone else to ensure that my baby will take FF if it was necessary and will feed from others also (however I won't be doing this for the first few weeks to ensure baby has exclusive BF for the first few weeks).
This is my decision and for me there is no choice (as long as I am able/am producing etc etc).

Becki x


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## Amygdala

Becki, if you'd like to make sure you will have support when you get to it, google your local nct branch! They're awesome for breastfeeding support and many branches have groups that you can attend even during pregnancy. I can't recommend them enough to anyone who wants to breastfeed. :thumbup:


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## Iamblessed

I have 9 children and all were bf some shorter then others but let me tell you this time has been a massive struggle but I do formul aand bf! It is not for everyone and not everyone can produce 30 something oz a day! So in my opinion do what you have to do to have a healthy baby! And for EBF'ers please be cautious as to how things are worded as it does offend those who strictly FF! They are people too! I am part of both sides so I don't have much to say but we do need to be careful! <3 to all!


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## Lara310809

before I had kids I didn't want to BF at all; the concept of breastfeeding is fine, but I hated anything going near my breasts, so didn't want a baby near them. The idea repulsed me. 

When I was pregnant with my first, my OH told me to at least read up on the benefits before I went down the formula route. He knew about them already, and he was frustrated that I was so inflexible about it. After I realised the benefits I was determined to BF. Sadly, due to a whole load of factors, mostly out of my control (the things Icould control were merely a case of me not having researched BF properly, and not seeking advice soon enough), I wasn't able to BF, so I gave up.

The guilt I felt over "failing" my first was enough to gear me up to BF my second. I read up and researched everything, joined Facebook support groups (because there are no actual support groups here), and tried to learn all I could about it. I managed to BF her, and I still am. 

But that's come at a price. I have never enjoyed BF; I have never had that wonderful experience that people go on about, but instead I have tears, anger, depression and resentment - I have PND. Because of the lack of breastfeeding-friendly PND medication available here, I cannot take anything to help me while I'm BF; nor have I received much support from doctors/consellors. My LO is almost 10 months old, and showing no interest in weaning onto solids, and point blank refuses a bottle/cup/beaker. So for the meantime I'm basically trapped in an ongoing cycle of resentment and anger. It's not healthy at all, yet there's very little I can do about it. 

I realise this isn't about the BF; it's about mehaving PND, but I can safely say if I have a third baby, I won't even attempt to breastfeed him/her. I feel terribleabout that, because I used to criticise other mothers when I saw them go straight for a bottle opposedto even trying to BF. I used to think it strange that they didn't even want to provide that tiny littlebit of goodness for their baby. But now I know that if I ever try to BF another baby, it could turn out likethis, and I don't want to evr go through this again. I don't have much of a bond with my youngest, and it tears me apart to know that. I don't want it to happen again.

So that's where I stand. Sadly, I know I will be judged by someone out there (not necessaily here, but in real life), because I used to judge for the same thing. ButI supposenow I'm more aware of the other side, and it'sjust not even worth risking.


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## Sproglet

vikster said:


> Just wondered what your thoughts/experiences are related to this.
> 
> I would like to start by saying that I am pro choice with this one and believe that you should do what is best for you, your baby and your circumstances. Just my opinion but as long as a child is being loved, cared for and fed well, it doesn't bother me whether people choose breast or formula.
> 
> When the time comes, I really want to breast feed but know that it is unlikely that I will be able to. I have Crohn's disease and this means that I am on medication for life. I will have to take my meds throughout pregnancy but after a long discussion with my consultant, he assures me that the drugs ate safe to take when pregnant because it doesn't pass through the placenta. The downside is that I have been told that I wouldn't be able to breast feed while taking the drugs :( I am a bit gutted as I really did want to try breast feeding but I could never risk the drugs being passed on to my newborn. It also isn't an option to come off the medication in order to breast feed because I could be very ill which would be no good for me of the baby.
> 
> Although I would like to breast feed but know that i can't, I was a formula fed baby and have turned out fine and lots of my friends couldn't manage it for various reasons and their kids are just fine too. My step sister breast fed my niece for 11 months very successfully so I saw the benefits of that first hand too.
> 
> 
> I know that this is a potentially controversial topic and like i said at the start of this post, i am pro choice so it is mainly out of interest, but I though I would start a conversation while I am sat on the sofa this morning! X

I haven't read all the replies. But are you sure your meds exclude breastfeeding? I also have Crohn's and take Pentasa and azathioprine. Azathioprine is not recommended for use during pregnancy or breastfeeding, based on animal studies. however I contacted the breastfeeding network drugline, and they sent me studies done into breastfeeding on those meds, showing that a) the proportion of meds passing into breastmilk is tiny (if any is even passed, not all women do) and b) there is no difference in rates of infections etc in infants. Based on that, I have made the decision to breastfeed my LO.

For the record, my Crohn's was in remission when I became pregnant, and during pregnancy I never felt better, I even managed to eat popcorn (and didn't regret it the next day!)


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## vikster

Oh my god sproglet, i am so glad that you replied to this post because I don't know anyone else with crohns so have no one to talk to about pregnancy etc. I am too taking azathioprine and pentasa and will be for good as far as I know. I am slowly getting better and feel that we have made the right decision waiting to TTC until I am in remission. 

How have you found pregnancy, conception and the birth etc ? Did you stay on the meds? I have so many questions! I had no idea that the studies were done on animals and there is so much conflicting info online. We're you classed as a high risk pregnancy and did you have any extra monitoring from the midwives or consultant etc? I was only diagnosed in the summer so a lot of this is all new to me. I am so confused by the information although I have a great consultant but I feel a bit daft talking to him because I am not TTC yet. I did speak to him about starting a family when I was first diagnosed but not since. Any info or just your experience would be very much appreciated xx


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## Iamblessed

Lara-OMG you have targeted everything i feel and more! where were you 4 months ago? I have felt the same and have wanted a bond and it has been hard the ppd has been awful and just getting better !!! I do take celexa and it is bf'ing safe. Because of all the stress I have had it has mostly been me resorting to bottle feeding my milk but just recently started bf'ing more. I am trying to get away from formula as I do both! Oh my you are just the person who understands me. May I add you so we can talk more?


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## Sproglet

I was diagnosed with Crohn's in the terminal ileum back in June 2010, after becoming very ill and being hospitalised in April. steroids and Pentasa helped but we added aza in August 2010. It took a while to kick in, but I was basically in remission from Jan 2011, though still having to be careful with diet. We decided in November 2011 that we were ready to try for a baby, and spoke to my consultant and IBD nurse who said go for it. I did request full blood checks including vitamin and mineral levels before we actively started trying in January 2012. By February I had my BFP! 

I was indeed classed as high risk, and met with an OB consultant after my 12 week scan. He explained the main risks related to Crohn's were a slightly increased risk of 1st tri miscarriage (but having made it that far I had the same odds as anyone else) and also having a prem/low birth weight baby. As a precaution he scheduled a growth scan for 28 weeks, but otherwise I could continue with midwife led care. I asked about the delivery but as I had no abdominal surgeries, Crohn's wouldn't affect my birth choices.

As it turns out, at my growth scan LO's abdominal circumference measured on the 95th centile. As this was the complete opposite of what they expected, and with my family history, they scheduled me for a GTT which led to me being diagnosed with gestational diabetes- completely unrelated to Crohn's. From that point the diabetic team took over my pregnancy care, and scheduled more growth scans and put me on a diabetic diet. I was so grateful that my Crohn's was behaving, as the diabetic diet is the opposite of what I would normally eat to keep my guts happy! And they also told me that if I couldn't get my blood sugar under control, I would have to inject insulin as they couldn't risk oral medications (they often cause GI side effects). Luckily I managed it!

I did have 1 incident of severe stomach pain during my pregnancy, I took a low dose of codeine for it. But normally I would have pains like that maybe once every 3-4 months (always related to something I ate), so once in 9 months isn't bad!

As they were doing extra growth scans, they noticed that LO was breech (good job they did, my midwife missed it!). They tried to turn her at 37 weeks, but failed. So they booked me in for a c section- they didn't want me going overdue with the diabetes. As it happens, LO had other ideas and I went into labour naturally 2 days later, resulting in EMCS. 

The delivery was fairly uneven true, except me stopping them from giving me a diclofenac painkiller suppository as I lay in theatre (diclofenac=NSAID=BAD for Crohn's). 

Top tip: when you go into hospital and they ask if you have any allergies, declare NSAIDs as an allergy as, like my team, they might not know you can't take NSAIDs with Crohn's!

Instead of the diclofenac I had dihydrocodeine. Not ideal as it made LO sleepy, so I weaned myself off it 5 days after my section and made do with paracetamol. 

I'm now 3 1/2 weeks pp and so far I'm fine, I did panic a bit because I had diarrhoea a few days after birth but that turned out to be temporary (either hormones or due to the surgery, antibiotics and coming off the codeine).

So that's my story! (Sorry it turned out to be so long) If you have any questions, or just want a chat or bit of support, feel free to PM me as I might forget about this thread!


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## Mrs Eleflump

I'd love to breastfeed but I have lupus so it will depend on what medication I'm on at the time. Lupus flares are common in later pregnancy and in the first three months following birth. I'm not going to breastfeed if there are medicines in my system that will pass into my milk and harm my baby.

I definitely think that it is an individual choice that has to be made with the best interests of both mother and baby in mind and nobody has the right to judge anyone for their choice, as they don't always know all the factors involved.


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## socitycourty

MarineWAG said:


> tearspawn said:
> 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.
> 
> I completely disagree, I believe the baby's health is a lot more important that the mother's happiness. I hated breastfeeding, it hurt, I was shattered, I hated how I felt LO only wanted me for milk, but it doesn't matter what I felt I set him up for life with my milk. I think people should properly study the benefits of breast milk over formula before throwing around comments like 'I was fine' 'makes no difference' 'no difference by the age if 5'. If people actually studied the differences people would realise this is a matter of health. I will do exactly the same for the next baby, I wont begrudge a few months discomfort for health benefits that will stay will my son FOR LIFE. I have to this because I am a mother. I hate the way people assume because I BF for 9 months it was easy for me, it wasn't but I persevered, I honestly think BF dramatically altered my psychological health in a bad way for a short term, but I will do it all again because it isn't about me, there is no choice, formula is not an option it is a fall back if things go wrong, that's what it should be anyway and I believe everyone would realise this if they actually looked at what BM does.
> 
> Good on your sister she's sounds an incredible mum. You need to study about BM, the differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death- no exaggeration so please look at it first before going off what others say.Click to expand...

rude. and the life or death comparison is really annoying. formula can be deadly in 3rd world countries where they have dirty water. not so much in developed countries.


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## Pearls18

socitycourty said:


> MarineWAG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tearspawn said:
> 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with formula feeding to me. I watched my twin sister breast feed her first baby for six months and to be honest it made the first few months with her baby an unhappy slog in many ways. She never stopped feeling nauseus and it would have done her great deal of emotional good to be able to split the work of feeding more evenly between her and her husband. She is now pregnant again and trying to decide how long she will try to breast feed this time. In my opinion, she (and anyone else) should do whatever makes it possible to have the happiest initial few months with their baby as they can. From what she has told me, the health differences between bf and ff are there, but small, and I don't think that always outweighs the psychological health of the mom, whatever the reason is that bf puts a solid dark cloud above her head.
> 
> I completely disagree, I believe the baby's health is a lot more important that the mother's happiness. I hated breastfeeding, it hurt, I was shattered, I hated how I felt LO only wanted me for milk, but it doesn't matter what I felt I set him up for life with my milk. I think people should properly study the benefits of breast milk over formula before throwing around comments like 'I was fine' 'makes no difference' 'no difference by the age if 5'. If people actually studied the differences people would realise this is a matter of health. I will do exactly the same for the next baby, I wont begrudge a few months discomfort for health benefits that will stay will my son FOR LIFE. I have to this because I am a mother. I hate the way people assume because I BF for 9 months it was easy for me, it wasn't but I persevered, I honestly think BF dramatically altered my psychological health in a bad way for a short term, but I will do it all again because it isn't about me, there is no choice, formula is not an option it is a fall back if things go wrong, that's what it should be anyway and I believe everyone would realise this if they actually looked at what BM does.
> 
> Good on your sister she's sounds an incredible mum. You need to study about BM, the differences are not small, in some cases the difference between the two is life or death- no exaggeration so please look at it first before going off what others say.Click to expand...
> 
> rude. and the life or death comparison is really annoying. formula can be deadly in 3rd world countries where they have dirty water. not so much in developed countries.Click to expand...

Boring. Read the rest of my comments to know why I justifiably said that not getting into this again, said what I have wanted to say.


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## chellebelle8

Wow...can not believe some of the attitudes of people on this thread. I believe the OP asked for both sides not formula bashing and in some cases down right rudeness. Totally ridiculous !


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## Pearls18

Unsubscribing before it starts again...thought this thread was done.....


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