# Babies vomit to get your attention.



## flubdub

^ This so called "advice" from Tizzie Hall, writer of "Save Our Sleep".

Covering babies in 12+ blankets to keep them so warm that they stay asleep, and saying that babies are "sick just to get attention". :sick:
Have mentioned it in the thread also, but on FB, someone asked her what it meant when the babies head was sweating, and she said it was because he had lots of hair (nothing to do with the 12 blankets then!!)

What do we think of this?



> I often come across a baby who has learnt to vomit at bedtime during failed attempts at controlled crying. If you have one of these babies you will need to teach your child that vomiting will not get your attention or buy any extra time. This is hard, but it has to be done to stop the vomiting. The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Layer the towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her to the other end. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do all this and be calm and confident through out, so you can fool your baby into thinking you don't care about vomit.




> Q ~ 'I've recently started my 7 month old on s.o.s routine. Day 4 and our nights are getting so much better. Before starting bub was waking every 2 hours sometimes less. My partner and I were exhausted. The first night he slept for 4 hours before needing to be resettled, second night was 7 hours and last night was 9.5 hours. Praying tonight is 12. Two little issues, first my boobs are killing me in the mornings now- I'm so engorged. And the second issue is that i think he is getting cold at night. I sleep him ina long sleeve onesie, a sleeping bag and a cellular blanket but he manages to wriggle out from under the blanket and when i go in to check on him he is sleeping on top of the blanket, and he is cold to touch.'
> 
> 
> A ~ Do you have the bedding guide from the SOS website? It shows you what to dress bubs in for temps in various states. Best $9 you'll ever spend! Need to make sure everything is 100% cotton (incl. mattress protector) otherwise bubs will sweat. Most of us use many more blankets than the guide, every bubs is different eg. I'm in Sydney and in a room of 24.2C my 6m has 12 blankets on + the clothing, bag and wrap mentioned in the guide.


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## special_kala

I saw this on facebook and would love to give that woman a good kick in the head.

Or possible completly immobilize her, leave her hungry/wet and scared in a dark room and when she vomits because shes that upset make her "learn" that i dont give a crap!


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## Kimmer

:dohh::nope:

Don't agree with that one bit. I don't believe babies are sick for attention, I think if they're that worked up about crying for so long, they're sick because of that.

Also, 12+ blankets?! At the same time? Surely not..


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## freckleonear

I think it is neglectful, abusive and downright dangerous in the case of the blankets. It's absolutely horrifying that her Facebook page has 5000+ likes and that parents actually follow her advice. It's terrible to think that people can leave their babies to cry until they are sick and then believe that they are being sick on purpose for attention. :(


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## taylor197878

12 blankets :wacko: doesnt overheating the baby mean anything to her :dohh:

god brooke sleeps with her 2.5tog sleeping bag and no more


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## bathbabe

What aload of crap. She can eff off


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## flubdub

Kimmer said:


> :dohh::nope:
> 
> Don't agree with that one bit. I don't believe babies are sick for attention, I think if they're that worked up about crying for so long, they're sick because of that.
> 
> Also, 12+ blankets?! At the same time? Surely not..

I tried to link to a website about it but I wasnt allowed because it was another forum :haha:

12+ blankets? Apparently so. The only reason they would stay asleep like that is through overheating imo. Or dehydration :(


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## Seity

I don't think I ever needed more than 8 blankets (4 folded in half) in the dead of winter in our extremely drafty house. Luckily we were able to get a loan and replace the windows, so it's much better this winter.


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## PinkEmily

OMG :wacko: I feel sorry for any child she comes into contact with. There is no way a baby can make themselves sick for attention.


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## Lellow

She is, evidently....as thick as shit :shock:


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## flubdub

How the hell can a baby do ANYTHING on purpose anyway? Let alone think "Hmm, mum isnt coming, I know! Being sick will get her attention."
:cry:


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## louandivy

I really hope something terrible doesn't happen from this awful advice. 12+ blankets? Fucking hell. Its so awful that she doesn't care about these babies' welfare, she will just do whatever she can to make sure they sleep so she can take money from their mothers :nope:


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## louandivy

Oh and on a slightly related note, my friend met another mum the other day who insisted that every mum HAD to use CIO to get their baby to STTN. She then went on to say 'do you want your baby to be a handbag or a haemmorroid? Because haemmorroids stay stuck to you all the time' :wacko:


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## bbyno1

Who in their right mind would follow her advice?


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## minties

Wow...just...wow.

Words fail me.


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## minties

louandivy said:


> Oh and on a slightly related note, my friend met another mum the other day who insisted that every mum HAD to use CIO to get their baby to STTN. She then went on to say 'do you want your baby to be a handbag or a haemmorroid? Because haemmorroids stay stuck to you all the time' :wacko:

What a dumb-arse! My son is STTN and he doesn't even cry ever (unless he is in pain), let alone CIO lol!


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## Tiredgirl

Reading that has really quite upset me... to leave LO when being sick and just to ignore them... I could never do that!!!! I also do not think they are sick for attention, as mentioned earlier if they cry that much they get in such a state where they end up being sick. Poor little mites xx


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## ttc_lolly

special_kala said:


> I saw this on facebook and would love to give that woman a good kick in the head.
> 
> Or possible completly immobilize her, leave her hungry/wet and scared in a dark room and when she vomits because shes that upset make her "learn" that i dont give a crap!

WSS word for word!!

Disgusting!! Recommending overheating a baby!? Is this woman nuts? It's just scary that there are people like this allowed to give advice out :nope: Especially for a first time parent who might not know any better!


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## special_kala

For a baby to be so upset to be sick must be awful.

Not too long ago I cried until I was sick and I couldnt breath or think straight I was that upset. Cant even imagine how that feels to a poor baby who cant even rationalise it in the slightest :(


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## summer rain

You'd think from this woman's advice she was born in 1826, its shocking how some people will follow the advice of experts so blindly, even if it could kill their baby :( It seems these books sell so well on amazon, am seriously looking into other online stores to supply my kids' homeschooling workbooks etc....


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## xbabybumpx

That is just awful. What a heartless cow!!


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## LoraLoo

:shock: OMG thats worrying. Hope nobody has been stupid enough to take her advice :wacko:


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## flubdub

bbyno1 said:


> Who in their right mind would follow her advice?

It seems people do though. She has sold lots of books, and has loads of followers on FB.
The worlds gone mad!!


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## RedRose

I'd sooner cut my own arm off than leave my daughter to cry alone in her sick because I want to 'teach' her to sleep through the night.

Fucking heartless bitch.


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## sweetlullaby

^^^

WSS

That's just plain shocking though!! I can't believe anyone would "like that on faceook" or follow it!:shock:


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## ttc_lolly

*Who's up for boycotting her FB page!? *:lol:


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## aliss

12+ blankets in the warmth (24C?) to help them sleep better? I wonder if the SIDS institute has any warnings against this woman... 

Yes, some babies do vomit during controlled-crying or CIO. It's distress. This shit, plus shoving rice down a newborns throat, makes me wonder why on earth Western society thinks that they are the forward-progressive ones... get real.


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## Pookie 73

That's just totally abhorrent, poor babies and stupid parents for following the advice


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## Lyndz

What i think of that is it's the biggest amount of bollocks i've ever read. What a twat. A baby is sick for a reason, not for attention.


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## minties

aliss said:


> 12+ blankets in the warmth (24C?) to help them sleep better? I wonder if the SIDS institute has any warnings against this woman...

Agreed! Summer is not long over here at it was around that temp daily recently.

My LO wouldn't even have ONE blanket in that kind of warmth let alone TWELVE!!! :growlmad:


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## special_kala

aliss said:


> 12+ blankets in the warmth (24C?) to help them sleep better? I wonder if the SIDS institute has any warnings against this woman...
> 
> Yes, some babies do vomit during controlled-crying or CIO. It's distress. This shit, plus shoving rice down a newborns throat, makes me wonder why on earth Western society thinks that they are the forward-progressive ones... get real.

:thumbup:


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## flubdub

Also, on FB, someone had asked her what it meant when the babies head was sweating, and she said the baby was sweating because it had lots of hair :cry:


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## Katt

What the f***? Making themselves vomit? Can someone please remove this woman from the gene pool. She doesn't deserve children. 

I am going to go and give lo a hug and apologise for bringing her into a world full of horrible people.


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## Sarah&Ady

12 blankets? ....Jesus. Her own brother died from SIDS too :(


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## angel2010

This makes me very sad to think of all the LOs whose moms are taking this advice.


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## LoraLoo

Lyndz said:


> What i think of that is it's the biggest amount of bollocks i've ever read. What a twat. A baby is sick for a reason, not for attention.

Probably being sick because the poor little mite is so over heated :dohh: :nope: Seriously, shocking.


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## LoraLoo

Sarah&Ady said:


> 12 blankets? ....Jesus. Her own brother died from SIDS too :(

:shock: Speechless


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## ttc_lolly

Sarah&Ady said:


> 12 blankets? ....Jesus. Her own brother died from SIDS too :(

:saywhat: This woman actually is crazy :nope:


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## tu123

Ugh!

Thought of this "advice" sends shivers down my spine.

My LO will regularly have nuclear meltdowns-i will often need to slap her back really hard as she starts to go blue and choke on saliva going down the wrong hole. I feel better when she has vomited! She does not do it on purpose but because she is screaming so hard she cant breathe or swallow properly!

This is also why i could not do CIO or CC.


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## Sarah&Ady

Just copied this from her site.. mentions her brother.. 



> From early childhood, all I ever wanted was a baby of my own so I could practice being a mummy. I was seven when my baby brother, Richard, was born. I was elated at his arrival but, after just nine weeks, Richard died suddenly of cot death (SIDS).
> 
> From this point I became the big sister to every baby I could find. When parents came to school to pick up their children, I would dash to those with a baby and ask if I could have a cuddle. On Sundays I was not beside my family in their church pew, but rather sitting in one with a baby I could hold. I believe that these parents allowed me to interact with their babies because they realised how deeply the loss of Richard had impacted upon me.


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## aliss

Sarah&Ady said:


> Just copied this from her site.. mentions her brother..
> 
> 
> 
> From early childhood, all I ever wanted was a baby of my own so I could practice being a mummy. I was seven when my baby brother, Richard, was born. I was elated at his arrival but, after just nine weeks, Richard died suddenly of cot death (SIDS).
> 
> From this point I became the big sister to every baby I could find. When parents came to school to pick up their children, I would dash to those with a baby and ask if I could have a cuddle. On Sundays I was not beside my family in their church pew, but rather sitting in one with a baby I could hold. I believe that these parents allowed me to interact with their babies because they realised how deeply the loss of Richard had impacted upon me.Click to expand...

I find it so hard to believe that someone whose family has suffered the death of a child due to SIDS would be so callous about making such dangerous recommendations which are then used on babies. I find that absolutely frightening :nope:


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## Ice Cold Cube

Who is this woman???!!! She should be strung up.


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## tu123

Sarah&Ady said:


> Just copied this from her site.. mentions her brother..
> 
> 
> 
> From early childhood, all I ever wanted was a baby of my own so I could practice being a mummy. I was seven when my baby brother, Richard, was born. I was elated at his arrival but, after just nine weeks, Richard died suddenly of cot death (SIDS).
> 
> From this point I became the big sister to every baby I could find. When parents came to school to pick up their children, I would dash to those with a baby and ask if I could have a cuddle. On Sundays I was not beside my family in their church pew, but rather sitting in one with a baby I could hold. I believe that these parents allowed me to interact with their babies because they realised how deeply the loss of Richard had impacted upon me.Click to expand...

Quack quack quack-doesnt justify the weirdness of her "advice"


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## flubdub

Sarah&Ady said:


> Just copied this from her site.. mentions her brother..
> 
> 
> 
> From early childhood, all I ever wanted was a baby of my own so I could practice being a mummy. I was seven when my baby brother, Richard, was born. I was elated at his arrival but, after just nine weeks, Richard died suddenly of cot death (SIDS).
> 
> From this point I became the big sister to every baby I could find. When parents came to school to pick up their children, I would dash to those with a baby and ask if I could have a cuddle. On Sundays I was not beside my family in their church pew, but rather sitting in one with a baby I could hold. I believe that these parents allowed me to interact with their babies because they realised how deeply the loss of Richard had impacted upon me.Click to expand...

That should be followed with......"and when I grew up, I gave dangerous, if not _lethal_ advice to unsuspecting parents. There is nothing that another dozen blankets wont fix."


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## Sarah&Ady

Agree. I am so paranoid about J overheating. I have the Gro Egg and another room themometer and I am always checking in on him. Seriously.. where did 12 blankets come from?! I cant get my head around it.


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## ellie

It seems so random. What on earth has she based this on? She's not qualified in anything, she's just somehow managed to hit it big, and maybe she's actually not got that many ideas so she's just randomly making some up ...
I considered reporting the FB page but it didnt really fit into any of the categories they give.
She's downright mental though. I wondered whether FSIDS would have anything to say about what she spouts, though she's Australian, is there a similar organisation there?


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## LoraLoo

Sarah&Ady said:


> Agree. I am so paranoid about J overheating. I have the Gro Egg and another room themometer and I am always checking in on him. Seriously.. where did 12 blankets come from?! I cant get my head around it.

:shrug: just seems like a number she's pulled out of her head. I imagine in Winter months she ups it to 24 :dohh:


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## Mum2b_Claire

I'm going to use any non busy work days to contact shops selling her books, with some snippets of her 'advice' just to see if they would like to explain why they are promoting this kind of thing.


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## Sarah&Ady

Found this.. it is her explaining the multi blanket thing (see comment no.4) ... make of it what you will. Im not convinced though...think I'll stick to the Gro Bag .. 
https://blog.saveoursleep.com/2010/02/04/how-to-put-your-baby-to-bed/#comments


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## summer rain

Here's a blog from a mum who tried to follow her 'advice' and now wants to put it right...

https://parentingbabytosleep.blogspot.com/2007/05/are-children-still-underclass-humans.html

and her review of the book

https://parentingbabytosleep.blogspot.com/2008/02/save-our-sleep-by-tizzie-hall-or-tizzy.html


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## cabaretmum2b

Oh my god. People like this are the reason that I'd never trust myself with a machine gun. Or a knife. Or a toothbrush.


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## Kitten-B

That is madness - so absurd and horrid that I can barely believe those comments are real and not some sort of p*ss-take


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## andbabymakes3

In one of her insightful replies, she also says that a 6 month old should eat chicken or fish twice a day.

[email protected] nutjob.


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## Mum2b_Claire

oh and apparently, babies who poo in the night do so because they are cold!


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## cabaretmum2b

Mum2b_Claire said:


> oh and apparently, babies who poo in the night do so because they are cold!

Well let's be honest, it must warm their bums up a bit :winkwink:


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## flubdub

> "At six months he should be in a bodysuit, a babygro(so yes long sleeved and feeted) a one tog safe sleeping bag, a DOUBLEWRAP a sheet folded in two and 2 cotton or bamboo blankets at night. So yes you should have him in long sleeves. When you go to bed you can add the second blanket but from 7 pm just have the one.
> 
> Please try this unless the sweat pours off him, also at 6 months he should be eating chicken or fish twice a day."


:wacko:


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## LoraLoo

Mum2b_Claire said:


> oh and apparently, babies who poo in the night do so because they are cold!

Of course :dohh:

On the video, she said that 4 blankets were reommended for that room temp, but she also swaddled baby with god knows how many laters AND put a growbag on him aswell????


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## ellie

Mum2b_Claire said:


> oh and apparently, babies who poo in the night do so because they are cold!

I always poo when I'm cold - don't you ? :dohh:

Nutjob.

She sounds so reasonable though and like she actually knows stuff?

Also, her comments about the SIDS issue didn't really make sense and contradicted the official advice she posted.


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## flubdub

> The first time I put her to bed yesterday I think that she cried herself to sleep because *she continued to sob after falling asleep* She fell asleep within the 18 minute window which your book says not to re-enter the room


:cry: :cry:


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## freckleonear

> I absolutely believe that it would do no emotional or psychological damage to a baby to protest (a.k.a. cry) for six or seven hours if that&#8217;s what it takes for the "tantrum" to end.

Poor babies. :cry:


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## charli87

what the hell is that woman on!? what a complete joke!! how would she like it if everytime she was sick no one paid any attention and left her sweating with 12 blankets?!? the worst thing is new mums that have no help around them would believe that cr*p :nope:


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## Mum2b_Claire

freckleonear said:


> I absolutely believe that it would do no emotional or psychological damage to a baby to protest (a.k.a. cry) for six or seven hours if thats what it takes for the "tantrum" to end.
> 
> Poor babies. :cry:Click to expand...

Now that is the worst thing I've heard from her.:cry:


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## ellie

freckleonear said:


> I absolutely believe that it would do no emotional or psychological damage to a baby to protest (a.k.a. cry) for six or seven hours if thats what it takes for the "tantrum" to end.
> 
> Poor babies. :cry:Click to expand...

Also, she clearly knows nothing then. There is TONS of research showing that there certainly is LOADS of damage done to a baby's tiny developing brain if that happens. What an idiot. It's so depressing that people like that get so rich and famous in dishing out such bumwash!


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## ellie

flubdub said:


> The first time I put her to bed yesterday I think that she cried herself to sleep because *she continued to sob after falling asleep* She fell asleep within the 18 minute window which your book says not to re-enter the room
> 
> 
> :cry: :cry:Click to expand...

Well that was a success then :dohh: :dohh: :growlmad:


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## Becky123

I just looked at her facebook page, I can't believe how many mums are following in her advice, those poor babies


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## flubdub

> I left her for 18 minutes but in hindsight I should have probably gone in earlier as she was quite emotional. By the time I did go in she was inconsolable




> Hi Kylie:
> 
> Some babies have 8 more blankets than the bedding guide states so please try more bedding and see how you get on.
> Tizzie
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Tizzie
> *She now has 14 blankets on her*

^What in the name?!!!!

Everything is about temperature!!! Its ridiculous!


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## Mum2b_Claire

Oh and one of the mums posted asking what brand of yoghurt could she give her LO that wouldn't cause her to wake up too early in the morning :saywhat:


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## louandivy

The thought of a baby sleeping with 14 blankets over them makes me physically cringe. Its only March and I already think I'm going to buy a 1 tog sleeping bag as I worry about Ivy in the 2.5 one!


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## LoraLoo

This thread has really upset me :cry: How could anyone leave a baby to cry so long?


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## Mum2b_Claire

Yeah it takes every fibre of my being to get through leaving Ruby to do a 30 second protest when I put her bed sometimes, she always stops after 30 seconds but 18 minutes and I think I'd vomit, never mind Ruby.


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## SKATERBUN

I sometimes wonder what organisations such as the NSPCC think of women like her, she doesnt sound right in the head


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## flubdub

summer rain said:


> Here's a blog from a mum who tried to follow her 'advice' and now wants to put it right...
> 
> https://parentingbabytosleep.blogspot.com/2007/05/are-children-still-underclass-humans.html
> 
> and her review of the book
> 
> https://parentingbabytosleep.blogspot.com/2008/02/save-our-sleep-by-tizzie-hall-or-tizzy.html

I absolutely believe that it would do no emotional or psychological damage to a baby to protest (a.k.a. cry) for six or seven hours if thats what it takes for the "tantrum" to end

Thanks for those links, very interesting. The first one is quite sad :(



ellie said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> oh and apparently, babies who poo in the night do so because they are cold!
> 
> I always poo when I'm cold - don't you ? :dohh:Click to expand...

:rofl:



ellie said:


> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first time I put her to bed yesterday I think that she cried herself to sleep because *she continued to sob after falling asleep* She fell asleep within the 18 minute window which your book says not to re-enter the room
> 
> 
> :cry: :cry:Click to expand...
> 
> *Well that was a success then* :dohh: :dohh: :growlmad:Click to expand...

lol exactly! How nice for the baby to be sobbing in its sleep. A little hug in its mothers arms would have soon sorted that out :(


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## whoops

flubdub said:


> The first time I put her to bed yesterday I think that she cried herself to sleep because *she continued to sob after falling asleep* She fell asleep within the 18 minute window which your book says not to re-enter the room
> 
> 
> :cry: :cry:Click to expand...

That's actually just made me cry. 

I really want to pick up my LO now for a cuddle but she's fast asleep.


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## leoniebabey

^ my baby has cried himself to sleep before and did the in his sleep crys 
he did it the other day actually was in the car threrfore couldnt reach dummy ect so he cried till he fell asleep. 

i actually agree with the not talking to baby while getting rid of sicky clothes if i talked to LO he would go mental and want to play 

but wtf 12 blankets ? seriously ?
LO has none on even in the winter surely they would overheat or suffucate under the weight of 12 blankets


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## jakey1

This woman sounds like a right ffing idiot :growlmad: 12 blankets?? - WTF!!!!


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## xnmd1

MIL alsi thinks babies vomit for attention :dohh:

this woman is a fuckin' tard. it pissed me off to read this.


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## mrs_park

DH ordered this book after a recommendation from a friend. I am showing him this thread and we are both HORRIFIED!!!!!!!

Is it too late the cancel the order?

Oh my gosh, I have tears in my eyes at the thought of my baby crying himself to sleep. Babies need to be loved and cuddled. That is it. I would sooner stay awake all night holding him, than have him STTN and cry himself to sleep in the process.


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## Annunakian

Someone needs to arrest that looney for neglect.


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## Surprise

Reading this has really upset me. I can't bear thinking of a baby crying in its sleep after being left to CIO!:cry::cry::cry::cry: And babies being left to cry so hard that they vomit, or are inconsolable? And she says to ignore those poor heartbroken, damaged children when they've been sick from crying and neglect, and not look at them? :cry::cry::cry: I feel sick, really sick.


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## xnmd1

why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)


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## babyfromgod

This woman sounds absolutely mental!!!!


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## PrayinForBaby

freckleonear said:


> i think it is neglectful, abusive and downright dangerous in the case of the blankets. It's absolutely horrifying that her facebook page has 5000+ likes and that parents actually follow her advice. It's terrible to think that people can leave their babies to cry until they are sick and then believe that they are being sick on purpose for attention. :(

amen!


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## Pixxie

She's f***ing nuts!!! :shock:


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## louisiana

i am so disgusted with her so called advice.
i thought that most of us have babies because we love them and want to care for them,not to neglect them.
ive not looked at her facebook page yet but can we report it as abuse?


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## ellismum

Jeez she's a right night case. Sadly there will be people who believe what she spouts!

It's not uncommon for older children (it was on supernanny a few years ago) but babies, no, no,no!


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## Claireyh

Does she have a facebook page? Can we report it on fb?? Surely if enough people complain she would have to take it down?

I have never heard anything so scary in my life. It's dangerous! How long until a baby is seriously damaged or even worse by moron, lazy parents who follow this crazy advice. It frightens me!! :cry: :cry:

xxx


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## midwestbelle

flubdub:i saw saw that bug thing? on my screen and I went to wipe it off. Then I realized it wasn't on my screen and thought it was inside, and I was really confused. Then I realized it was in your signature. :haha::haha:


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## Babushka99

Is it a hoax?


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## Babushka99

Is it just me or does the 'international sleep expert' look like a witch?
 



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## Breezy

So glad my LO woke up after reading this thread. I wanted to snuggle him so bad!


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## sapphire1

Babushka99 said:


> Is it just me or does the 'international sleep expert' look like a witch?

:rofl:

:wacko: She's an absolute nutter. I truly hope that no poor babies have come to any harm when parents have followed her advice...


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## flubdub

xnmd1 said:


> why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)

Urgh, the Pearls. They are more dangerous imo. Whipping 4 month old babies :(


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## sjminimac

flubdub said:


> xnmd1 said:
> 
> 
> why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)
> 
> Urgh, the Pearls. They are more dangerous imo. Whipping 4 month old babies :(Click to expand...

Umm - WHAT?! :shock:


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## Kota

She's for real.. and unfortunately she's REALLY popular in Australia... :( Many mothers absolutely swear by her and her methods. I just posted these quotes on a FB page and got told that I'm taking it out of context and that the vomiting thing is just for 'extreme cases' and then the post was removed.


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## NG09

That woman sound's like a complete nutter and tbh I think she should be kept as fffaaaaaarrrrrr away from any baby as possible.


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## flubdub

sjminimac said:


> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xnmd1 said:
> 
> 
> why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)
> 
> Urgh, the Pearls. They are more dangerous imo. Whipping 4 month old babies :(Click to expand...
> 
> Umm - WHAT?! :shock:Click to expand...

https://www.babyandbump.com/news-de...your-thoughts-warning-may-upsetting-read.html


----------



## flubdub

Kota said:


> She's for real.. and unfortunately she's REALLY popular in Australia... :( Many mothers absolutely swear by her and her methods. I just posted these quotes on a FB page and got told that I'm taking it out of context and that the vomiting thing is just for 'extreme cases' and *then the post was removed.*

:roll: :dohh:
Sounds about right.


----------



## louandivy

flubdub said:


> sjminimac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xnmd1 said:
> 
> 
> why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)
> 
> Urgh, the Pearls. They are more dangerous imo. Whipping 4 month old babies :(Click to expand...
> 
> Umm - WHAT?! :shock:Click to expand...
> 
> https://www.babyandbump.com/news-de...your-thoughts-warning-may-upsetting-read.htmlClick to expand...

whyyyyyyyyyyy am I not allowed into news and debates? :cry:

I know the vomiting thing is awful but the excessive blanket tip is still really upsetting me. Overheating scares me so much.


----------



## flubdub

louandivy said:


> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sjminimac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xnmd1 said:
> 
> 
> why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)
> 
> Urgh, the Pearls. They are more dangerous imo. Whipping 4 month old babies :(Click to expand...
> 
> Umm - WHAT?! :shock:Click to expand...
> 
> https://www.babyandbump.com/news-de...your-thoughts-warning-may-upsetting-read.htmlClick to expand...
> 
> whyyyyyyyyyyy am I not allowed into news and debates? :cry:
> 
> I know the vomiting thing is awful but the excessive blanket tip is still really upsetting me. Overheating scares me so much.Click to expand...

I dont know! What does it say when you click the link?


----------



## pinklightbulb

Overheating was my main worry when Eamon was small. I used some of this woman's methods but not all and defo didn't agree with most of what she said. I used CC with her timing method as a guide but certainly never left Eamon to get hysterical and never let him make himself sick.


----------



## Marzipan_girl

louandivy said:


> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sjminimac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xnmd1 said:
> 
> 
> why do so many damn people write parenting books who should be in the looney bin, anyways? (her .. the pearls ..)
> 
> Urgh, the Pearls. They are more dangerous imo. Whipping 4 month old babies :(Click to expand...
> 
> Umm - WHAT?! :shock:Click to expand...
> 
> https://www.babyandbump.com/news-de...your-thoughts-warning-may-upsetting-read.htmlClick to expand...
> 
> whyyyyyyyyyyy am I not allowed into news and debates? :cry:
> 
> I know the vomiting thing is awful but the excessive blanket tip is still really upsetting me. Overheating scares me so much.Click to expand...

I was wondering why i've never seen you in there!


----------



## louandivy

It says I don't have permission to access it?! I love a good debate...maybe thats why I'm not allowed in :haha:


----------



## flubdub

I dont know then. I'll C&P what the first post had in it;* I wouldnt read it if you're easily upset*


Spoiler
https://theologica.ning.com/profiles/blogs/to-train-up-a-child-an



> Once he (the child) learns that the reward of a tantrum is a swift, forceful spanking, he will NEVER throw another fit&#8230;.If a parent starts at infancy, discouraging the first crying demands, the child will never develop the habit (pg 84)




> Training is not discipline. Discipline is the "damage control" part of training, but is insufficient in itself to effect proper behavior. Training is the conditioning of the child's mind before the crisis arises. It is preparation for future, instant, unquestioning obedience. (pg 4)




> Children need to be trained with the rod to realize the consequences up front and sometimes this means personal learning/exposure. For example, in chapter 10 &#8212; 14, the Pearls offer a bunch of examples of quick, decisive training. Chapter 10, specifically has these examples of things they did: Gun Safety? Place an old empty gun within arm's reach a child , say "No" then have hand-switching sessions. Hot stove? Heat up the stove till it's hot to the touch; open the door to get them attracted to the flames. As they run to the door to grab it say "Hot!" and the kid winds up learning in one try that it is hot. Pond out back? Walk the kid over to the pond and stay behind them as they lean over it and let them fall in. With one child, he actually had to nudge the kid in.




> Punishment must always be for things that are punishable. If a child has been fed, slept, has toys, has used the potty and isn't in pain then the parent knows that there is no reason for the child to be crying. This can be punished. If one of those necessary things are in place (say, the child is tired) then put the child to bed; don't punish him. But otherwise, the child, no matter the age, must be trained with the rod&#8212;not your hand.




> As a rule, do not use your hand. Hands are for loving and helping. If an adult swings his or her hand fast enough to cause pain to the surface of the skin, there is a danger of damaging bones and joints. The most painful nerves are just under the surface of the skin. A swift swat with a light, flexible instrument will sting without bruising or causing internal damage. Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber's supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store. They come cheaper by the dozen and can be widely distributed in every room and vehicle. Just the high profile of their accessibility keeps the kids in line. (quotes from online https://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles...sement-part-2/


----------



## sjminimac

i just read that. I feel sick.


----------



## xnmd1

why are some people not allowed in news and debates? :shrug:


----------



## LoraLoo

xnmd1 said:


> why are some people not allowed in news and debates? :shrug:

:shrug: I'm allowed. Maybe your on the naughty list :haha::winkwink:


----------



## xnmd1

Ive been good, i'm allowed! A few other girls said they couldn't get in!


----------



## flubdub

LoraLoo said:


> xnmd1 said:
> 
> 
> why are some people not allowed in news and debates? :shrug:
> 
> :shrug: I'm allowed. Maybe your on the naughty list :haha::winkwink:Click to expand...

:rofl:
Trouble makers :D


----------



## funkyfish586

I have just asked on the wall about SIDS see if the stupid witch will allow it. This is so sad :(

Isla is a terrible sleeper in the night but i will not let her cry her self to sleep, in the day she goes down for a nap awake & SOMETIMES cries for 5 mins normally she talks to herself & drops off. If at any point she is really upset im up there like a bolt. So unfair on these poor defenceless babies who need a cuddle :'( x


----------



## veganmum2be

omg :shock: :nope:


----------



## funkyfish586

sorry see post below x


----------



## funkyfish586

response i got re SIDS First one was ( Hi Natasha, Tizzie is also very concerned about SIDS as she lost her baby brother to SIDS. When u read how many layers I agree it sounds ludicrous. But think of it like this, a quilt that we sleep under is approx rated 14tog plus we have th...e warmth of our partner keeping us warm. Each layer/blanket is approx 0.5 tog, so even tho (for eg- my son last winter) has 14layers on it's only equiv to 7tog plus his sleeping bag so total 9.5tog. A baby can't regulate their body temp till around 18nths so the longer bubs stays still thru the night the colder it gets. A cold baby with no bedding will move all over the cot, roll to it's tummy, put it's bum in the air with arms & legs drawn under it's body & bury it's face in the mattress trying to find a warm spot - which is definately a SIDS risk. By adding layers it helps keep baby on it's back therefore keeping them safe. They're not overheated at all, W was toasty warm all winter :) Hope that answers your question :) )

and then

We are aware there are some parents reading my facebook fan page at the moment who are concerned for the welfare of our babies. Please remember these ladies are only reading snippets of advice and information and have most likely never read my complete book or my associated articles in full. They are purely going on what they are reading on this page.

These ladies are not being malice or vindictive in any way but are showing genuine concern for our babies safety and wellbeing. What these ladies most likely dont know, which all of you know is the countless hours of research that I have put into my book and articles before having them printed and before recommending the advice I do. They dont seem to be aware of the current SIDS guidelines stating as long as your babies head and face are uncovered and you are using cotton or bamboo bedding then it is perfectly safe to layer up the amount of these blankets to keep your baby warm which in return keeps them in the safe back sleeping position. *Also it is now clear overheating is only sited a risk factor and not as big a factor as was first thought but we do live in a generation that parents are so scared of over heating their babies they are doing the opposite and under heating them which is in my opinion a greater factor*.
-WTF

Please see bullet point ten, under the heading Make the sleeping environment as safe as possible and avoid overheating on this website https://www.ispid.org/prevention.html
Fact sheet 6 September 2007 https://www.sidsandkids.org/pdf/InformationStatement-RoomTemperatureSept2007.pdf please go to the 3rd page second paragraph in the conclusion box and read what it states. However there is no evidence to show that extra thermal insulation increases the risk of SIDS in infants who sleep on the back with the head and face uncovered.
They may not be aware of my own research that shows that if do not make a baby warm enough in bed they will, as soon as they are able, roll to their tummy, tuck their knees and arms in under their body, stick their bottom in the air and bury their face in the mattress to try and warm up, which of course we know is a very dangerous sleeping position for a baby and toddler. New research shows this causes less oxygen to get to the brain and could be connected to SIDS. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...h-newborn-babies/story-e6frg8y6-1226019355570 They are also not likely aware of my own personal experience of loosing a sibling to SIDS and how passionate I am about baby safety and ensuring everything I recommend down to the bodysuit your baby wears and the toys your baby plays with are the safest on the market.

I also feel some of these concerned ladies are also not looking at their own situation in regards to co sleeping, they simply may not be aware or have thought about the fact that their co sleeping babies are sleeping next to other bodies which provide lots of warmth and also likely under other bedding. As explained in this blog https://blog.saveoursleep.com/2010/04/05/113/ they may not realize that I actual support safe co-sleeping but it is accidental co-sleeping that I warn against and discourage my clients, readers and friends from doing. They actually may not even know or understand the difference but safe co sleeping is very different to accidental co-sleeping.

I also wonder if these ladies have considered why they believe babies dont need bedding? We all sleep with bedding and we are always told to dress our babies in one more layer than ourselves? So why is it recommended a baby goes to bed in only a sleeping bag? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers that spread this word not SIDS? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers who gain from spreading this information? It clearly states on the 9th SIDS international conference fact sheet that a baby will roll later if bedding is used with the sleeping bag. Here is a link to the https://www.ispid.org/fileadmin/user_upload/textfiles/SIDSI2006finalabstractbook.pdf if you go to page 99 (which might be a different page depending on how you are reading it) but actual page 99 point 134 titled COT DEATH AND SLEEPING SACKS you will see the state.

Please understand these ladies also only read and interpreted snippets of the vomiting baby the other night. They did not return to the page to find out the baby actually had gastro and I am sure they can all attest to babies vomiting in their sleep. These ladies were again only showing concern for this baby assuming that the baby had been left for hours in a controlled crying situation where of course we know this was not the case as I dont encourage or endorse controlled crying in anyway. These ladies would know that if they had read my book in its entirety. Research has shown that leaving a baby to cry and emotional cry can cause damage to the baby and parent. While I dont aim to convert these concerned parents I do thank them for their concern but ask them to respect that there are many ways to parent babies. Some parents will research, agree and try an option with their baby while an alternative parenting option may suit another family better.

What we need to show is respect for the parenting options that are available today and what we can do on the facebook fan page is support and encourage the other parents that have researched and are educated in my parenting option and chosen it as their preferred option.


----------



## flubdub

funkyfish586 said:


> response i got re SIDS First one was ( Hi Natasha, Tizzie is also very concerned about SIDS as she lost her baby brother to SIDS. When u read how many layers I agree it sounds ludicrous. But think of it like this, a quilt that we sleep under is approx rated 14tog plus we have th...e warmth of our partner keeping us warm. Each layer/blanket is approx 0.5 tog, so even tho (for eg- my son last winter) has 14layers on it's only equiv to 7tog plus his sleeping bag so total 9.5tog. A baby can't regulate their body temp till around 18nths so the longer bubs stays still thru the night the colder it gets. A cold baby with no bedding will move all over the cot, roll to it's tummy, put it's bum in the air with arms & legs drawn under it's body & bury it's face in the mattress trying to find a warm spot - which is definately a SIDS risk. By adding layers it helps keep baby on it's back therefore keeping them safe. They're not overheated at all, W was toasty warm all winter :) Hope that answers your question :) )
> 
> and then
> 
> We are aware there are some parents reading my facebook fan page at the moment who are concerned for the welfare of our babies. Please remember these ladies are only reading snippets of advice and information and have most likely never read my complete book or my associated articles in full. They are purely going on what they are reading on this page.
> 
> These ladies are not being malice or vindictive in any way but are showing genuine concern for our babies safety and wellbeing. What these ladies most likely dont know, which all of you know is the countless hours of research that I have put into my book and articles before having them printed and before recommending the advice I do. They dont seem to be aware of the current SIDS guidelines stating as long as your babies head and face are uncovered and you are using cotton or bamboo bedding then it is perfectly safe to layer up the amount of these blankets to keep your baby warm which in return keeps them in the safe back sleeping position. *Also it is now clear overheating is only sited a risk factor and not as big a factor as was first thought but we do live in a generation that parents are so scared of over heating their babies they are doing the opposite and under heating them which is in my opinion a greater factor*.
> -WTF
> 
> Please see bullet point ten, under the heading Make the sleeping environment as safe as possible and avoid overheating on this website https://www.ispid.org/prevention.html
> Fact sheet 6 September 2007 https://www.sidsandkids.org/pdf/InformationStatement-RoomTemperatureSept2007.pdf please go to the 3rd page second paragraph in the conclusion box and read what it states. However there is no evidence to show that extra thermal insulation increases the risk of SIDS in infants who sleep on the back with the head and face uncovered.
> They may not be aware of my own research that shows that if do not make a baby warm enough in bed they will, as soon as they are able, roll to their tummy, tuck their knees and arms in under their body, stick their bottom in the air and bury their face in the mattress to try and warm up, which of course we know is a very dangerous sleeping position for a baby and toddler. New research shows this causes less oxygen to get to the brain and could be connected to SIDS. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...h-newborn-babies/story-e6frg8y6-1226019355570 They are also not likely aware of my own personal experience of loosing a sibling to SIDS and how passionate I am about baby safety and ensuring everything I recommend down to the bodysuit your baby wears and the toys your baby plays with are the safest on the market.
> 
> I also feel some of these concerned ladies are also not looking at their own situation in regards to co sleeping, they simply may not be aware or have thought about the fact that their co sleeping babies are sleeping next to other bodies which provide lots of warmth and also likely under other bedding. As explained in this blog https://blog.saveoursleep.com/2010/04/05/113/ they may not realize that I actual support safe co-sleeping but it is accidental co-sleeping that I warn against and discourage my clients, readers and friends from doing. They actually may not even know or understand the difference but safe co sleeping is very different to accidental co-sleeping.
> 
> I also wonder if these ladies have considered why they believe babies dont need bedding? We all sleep with bedding and we are always told to dress our babies in one more layer than ourselves? So why is it recommended a baby goes to bed in only a sleeping bag? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers that spread this word not SIDS? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers who gain from spreading this information? It clearly states on the 9th SIDS international conference fact sheet that a baby will roll later if bedding is used with the sleeping bag. Here is a link to the https://www.ispid.org/fileadmin/user_upload/textfiles/SIDSI2006finalabstractbook.pdf if you go to page 99 (which might be a different page depending on how you are reading it) but actual page 99 point 134 titled COT DEATH AND SLEEPING SACKS you will see the state.
> 
> Please understand these ladies also only read and interpreted snippets of the vomiting baby the other night. They did not return to the page to find out the baby actually had gastro and I am sure they can all attest to babies vomiting in their sleep. These ladies were again only showing concern for this baby assuming that the baby had been left for hours in a controlled crying situation where of course we know this was not the case as I dont encourage or endorse controlled crying in anyway. These ladies would know that if they had read my book in its entirety. Research has shown that leaving a baby to cry and emotional cry can cause damage to the baby and parent. While I dont aim to convert these concerned parents I do thank them for their concern but ask them to respect that there are many ways to parent babies. Some parents will research, agree and try an option with their baby while an alternative parenting option may suit another family better.
> 
> What we need to show is respect for the parenting options that are available today and what we can do on the facebook fan page is support and encourage the other parents that have researched and are educated in my parenting option and chosen it as their preferred option.

Wow, thats one hell of a reply! I wonder if she saw this thread :haha:
About what she said aboout the vomitting baby having gastro - why was that baby, who is quite ill, being let to scream so much on its own? :nope:


----------



## funkyfish586

sorry about the length :) x


----------



## flubdub

funkyfish586 said:


> sorry about the length :) x

No, Im glad to see it. What was it that you wrote on the wall? xx


----------



## LoraLoo

What a hypocrite :wacko:


----------



## louandivy

I don't like the way that she almost uses the fact that her brother died from SIDS to excuse her awful and cruel advice.


----------



## LoraLoo

I wondr what FSID really think :shock: I need to contact them anyway, might just sneak it in there :smug: :haha:


----------



## flubdub

LoraLoo said:


> I wondr what FSID really think :shock: I need to contact them anyway, might just sneak it in there :smug: :haha:

Yeah do!

I dont know about anyone else, but my LO is always ROASTING!! If I put 14 blankets on him, I dread to think what would happen!
Also, 14 blankets isnt the same as a duvet, because all the different layers of blanket trap body warmth between each layer. One thick blanket doesnt do that.

On that video of her swaddling, I felt like I wanted to snatch the LO away from her. I wouldnt let her wthin a mile of my LO.


----------



## Raggydoll

Why is anyone willing to follow the "advice" of someone with no credentials?

Most her advice is started with "I believe". I believe a lot of things but it does not make me an expert. How this crap got published is beyond me.


----------



## Tasha

:shock:

I have come to the conclusion the people like her and the Pearls, want people to talk about them, good or bad they dont give a damn, just as long as they are getting attention. :nope::nope:


----------



## pinklizzy

She is seriously insane! :shock: I really don't understand the crappola response about the 14 tog duvet! If we get too hot we can take the duvet off, stick a leg out, whatever. Those poor babies are trapped under all those layers!


----------



## flubdub

Raggydoll said:


> Why is anyone willing to follow the "advice" of someone with no credentials?
> 
> Most her advice is started with "I believe". I believe a lot of things but it does not make me an expert. How this crap got published is beyond me.

lol So true.


----------



## aliss

flubdub said:


> Raggydoll said:
> 
> 
> Why is anyone willing to follow the "advice" of someone with no credentials?
> 
> Most her advice is started with "I believe". I believe a lot of things but it does not make me an expert. How this crap got published is beyond me.
> 
> lol So true.Click to expand...

It's unfortunate but the real experts (majority of pediatricians) like Dr Sears and Dr Harvey Karp all say that it's normal for babies to wake in the first year and beyond, that they need help/food/comfort throughout the night, and to just deal with it rather than "sleep train them".

They promise no quick fix - because the say there is no problem to begin with. That doesn't seem to make any money.


----------



## 9babiesgone

this person is flippin crazy !! and so wrong on so many levels!! :(


----------



## flubdub

aliss said:


> flubdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raggydoll said:
> 
> 
> Why is anyone willing to follow the "advice" of someone with no credentials?
> 
> Most her advice is started with "I believe". I believe a lot of things but it does not make me an expert. How this crap got published is beyond me.
> 
> lol So true.Click to expand...
> 
> It's unfortunate but the real experts (majority of pediatricians) like Dr Sears and Dr Harvey Karp all say that it's normal for babies to wake in the first year and beyond, that they need help/food/comfort throughout the night, and to just deal with it rather than "sleep train them".
> 
> They promise no quick fix - because the say there is no problem to begin with. That doesn't seem to make any money.Click to expand...

true. The more controverial stuff seems to bring in the big bucks.


----------



## ellie

Yeah sadly people often want a "quick fix" and dont want to consider long term consequences for their convenience :nope: people want to hear "miracle cures", thats what sells!


----------



## 2016

Stewart has reflux and is sick all the time, especially if he cries. Guess he is just "trying to get my attention" all the time then! :dohh:

I hate to say I bought that book and tried to follow her routines. It just wasn't possible and made me and LO miserable. He has fallen into a regular routine all by himself now. :smug:


----------



## Babushka99

funkyfish586 said:


> response i got re SIDS First one was ( Hi Natasha, Tizzie is also very concerned about SIDS as she lost her baby brother to SIDS. When u read how many layers I agree it sounds ludicrous. But think of it like this, a quilt that we sleep under is approx rated 14tog plus we have th...e warmth of our partner keeping us warm. Each layer/blanket is approx 0.5 tog, so even tho (for eg- my son last winter) has 14layers on it's only equiv to 7tog plus his sleeping bag so total 9.5tog. A baby can't regulate their body temp till around 18nths so the longer bubs stays still thru the night the colder it gets. A cold baby with no bedding will move all over the cot, roll to it's tummy, put it's bum in the air with arms & legs drawn under it's body & bury it's face in the mattress trying to find a warm spot - which is definately a SIDS risk. By adding layers it helps keep baby on it's back therefore keeping them safe. They're not overheated at all, W was toasty warm all winter :) Hope that answers your question :) )
> 
> and then
> 
> We are aware there are some parents reading my facebook fan page at the moment who are concerned for the welfare of our babies. Please remember these ladies are only reading snippets of advice and information and have most likely never read my complete book or my associated articles in full. They are purely going on what they are reading on this page.
> 
> These ladies are not being malice or vindictive in any way but are showing genuine concern for our babies safety and wellbeing. What these ladies most likely dont know, which all of you know is the countless hours of research that I have put into my book and articles before having them printed and before recommending the advice I do. They dont seem to be aware of the current SIDS guidelines stating as long as your babies head and face are uncovered and you are using cotton or bamboo bedding then it is perfectly safe to layer up the amount of these blankets to keep your baby warm which in return keeps them in the safe back sleeping position. *Also it is now clear overheating is only sited a risk factor and not as big a factor as was first thought but we do live in a generation that parents are so scared of over heating their babies they are doing the opposite and under heating them which is in my opinion a greater factor*.
> -WTF
> 
> Please see bullet point ten, under the heading Make the sleeping environment as safe as possible and avoid overheating on this website https://www.ispid.org/prevention.html
> Fact sheet 6 September 2007 https://www.sidsandkids.org/pdf/InformationStatement-RoomTemperatureSept2007.pdf please go to the 3rd page second paragraph in the conclusion box and read what it states. However there is no evidence to show that extra thermal insulation increases the risk of SIDS in infants who sleep on the back with the head and face uncovered.
> They may not be aware of my own research that shows that if do not make a baby warm enough in bed they will, as soon as they are able, roll to their tummy, tuck their knees and arms in under their body, stick their bottom in the air and bury their face in the mattress to try and warm up, which of course we know is a very dangerous sleeping position for a baby and toddler. New research shows this causes less oxygen to get to the brain and could be connected to SIDS. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...h-newborn-babies/story-e6frg8y6-1226019355570 They are also not likely aware of my own personal experience of loosing a sibling to SIDS and how passionate I am about baby safety and ensuring everything I recommend down to the bodysuit your baby wears and the toys your baby plays with are the safest on the market.
> 
> I also feel some of these concerned ladies are also not looking at their own situation in regards to co sleeping, they simply may not be aware or have thought about the fact that their co sleeping babies are sleeping next to other bodies which provide lots of warmth and also likely under other bedding. As explained in this blog https://blog.saveoursleep.com/2010/04/05/113/ they may not realize that I actual support safe co-sleeping but it is accidental co-sleeping that I warn against and discourage my clients, readers and friends from doing. They actually may not even know or understand the difference but safe co sleeping is very different to accidental co-sleeping.
> 
> I also wonder if these ladies have considered why they believe babies dont need bedding? We all sleep with bedding and we are always told to dress our babies in one more layer than ourselves? So why is it recommended a baby goes to bed in only a sleeping bag? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers that spread this word not SIDS? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers who gain from spreading this information? It clearly states on the 9th SIDS international conference fact sheet that a baby will roll later if bedding is used with the sleeping bag. Here is a link to the https://www.ispid.org/fileadmin/user_upload/textfiles/SIDSI2006finalabstractbook.pdf if you go to page 99 (which might be a different page depending on how you are reading it) but actual page 99 point 134 titled COT DEATH AND SLEEPING SACKS you will see the state.
> 
> Please understand these ladies also only read and interpreted snippets of the vomiting baby the other night. They did not return to the page to find out the baby actually had gastro and I am sure they can all attest to babies vomiting in their sleep. These ladies were again only showing concern for this baby assuming that the baby had been left for hours in a controlled crying situation where of course we know this was not the case as I dont encourage or endorse controlled crying in anyway. These ladies would know that if they had read my book in its entirety. Research has shown that leaving a baby to cry and emotional cry can cause damage to the baby and parent. While I dont aim to convert these concerned parents I do thank them for their concern but ask them to respect that there are many ways to parent babies. Some parents will research, agree and try an option with their baby while an alternative parenting option may suit another family better.
> 
> What we need to show is respect for the parenting options that are available today and what we can do on the facebook fan page is support and encourage the other parents that have researched and are educated in my parenting option and chosen it as their preferred option.

That sounds like witchy has seen this thread?


----------



## freckleonear

Babushka99 said:


> funkyfish586 said:
> 
> 
> response i got re SIDS First one was ( Hi Natasha, Tizzie is also very concerned about SIDS as she lost her baby brother to SIDS. When u read how many layers I agree it sounds ludicrous. But think of it like this, a quilt that we sleep under is approx rated 14tog plus we have th...e warmth of our partner keeping us warm. Each layer/blanket is approx 0.5 tog, so even tho (for eg- my son last winter) has 14layers on it's only equiv to 7tog plus his sleeping bag so total 9.5tog. A baby can't regulate their body temp till around 18nths so the longer bubs stays still thru the night the colder it gets. A cold baby with no bedding will move all over the cot, roll to it's tummy, put it's bum in the air with arms & legs drawn under it's body & bury it's face in the mattress trying to find a warm spot - which is definately a SIDS risk. By adding layers it helps keep baby on it's back therefore keeping them safe. They're not overheated at all, W was toasty warm all winter :) Hope that answers your question :) )
> 
> and then
> 
> We are aware there are some parents reading my facebook fan page at the moment who are concerned for the welfare of our babies. Please remember these ladies are only reading snippets of advice and information and have most likely never read my complete book or my associated articles in full. They are purely going on what they are reading on this page.
> 
> These ladies are not being malice or vindictive in any way but are showing genuine concern for our babies safety and wellbeing. What these ladies most likely dont know, which all of you know is the countless hours of research that I have put into my book and articles before having them printed and before recommending the advice I do. They dont seem to be aware of the current SIDS guidelines stating as long as your babies head and face are uncovered and you are using cotton or bamboo bedding then it is perfectly safe to layer up the amount of these blankets to keep your baby warm which in return keeps them in the safe back sleeping position. *Also it is now clear overheating is only sited a risk factor and not as big a factor as was first thought but we do live in a generation that parents are so scared of over heating their babies they are doing the opposite and under heating them which is in my opinion a greater factor*.
> -WTF
> 
> Please see bullet point ten, under the heading Make the sleeping environment as safe as possible and avoid overheating on this website https://www.ispid.org/prevention.html
> Fact sheet 6 September 2007 https://www.sidsandkids.org/pdf/InformationStatement-RoomTemperatureSept2007.pdf please go to the 3rd page second paragraph in the conclusion box and read what it states. However there is no evidence to show that extra thermal insulation increases the risk of SIDS in infants who sleep on the back with the head and face uncovered.
> They may not be aware of my own research that shows that if do not make a baby warm enough in bed they will, as soon as they are able, roll to their tummy, tuck their knees and arms in under their body, stick their bottom in the air and bury their face in the mattress to try and warm up, which of course we know is a very dangerous sleeping position for a baby and toddler. New research shows this causes less oxygen to get to the brain and could be connected to SIDS. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...h-newborn-babies/story-e6frg8y6-1226019355570 They are also not likely aware of my own personal experience of loosing a sibling to SIDS and how passionate I am about baby safety and ensuring everything I recommend down to the bodysuit your baby wears and the toys your baby plays with are the safest on the market.
> 
> I also feel some of these concerned ladies are also not looking at their own situation in regards to co sleeping, they simply may not be aware or have thought about the fact that their co sleeping babies are sleeping next to other bodies which provide lots of warmth and also likely under other bedding. As explained in this blog https://blog.saveoursleep.com/2010/04/05/113/ they may not realize that I actual support safe co-sleeping but it is accidental co-sleeping that I warn against and discourage my clients, readers and friends from doing. They actually may not even know or understand the difference but safe co sleeping is very different to accidental co-sleeping.
> 
> I also wonder if these ladies have considered why they believe babies dont need bedding? We all sleep with bedding and we are always told to dress our babies in one more layer than ourselves? So why is it recommended a baby goes to bed in only a sleeping bag? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers that spread this word not SIDS? Have they considered it is the sleeping bag manufacturers who gain from spreading this information? It clearly states on the 9th SIDS international conference fact sheet that a baby will roll later if bedding is used with the sleeping bag. Here is a link to the https://www.ispid.org/fileadmin/user_upload/textfiles/SIDSI2006finalabstractbook.pdf if you go to page 99 (which might be a different page depending on how you are reading it) but actual page 99 point 134 titled COT DEATH AND SLEEPING SACKS you will see the state.
> 
> Please understand these ladies also only read and interpreted snippets of the vomiting baby the other night. They did not return to the page to find out the baby actually had gastro and I am sure they can all attest to babies vomiting in their sleep. These ladies were again only showing concern for this baby assuming that the baby had been left for hours in a controlled crying situation where of course we know this was not the case as I dont encourage or endorse controlled crying in anyway. These ladies would know that if they had read my book in its entirety. Research has shown that leaving a baby to cry and emotional cry can cause damage to the baby and parent. While I dont aim to convert these concerned parents I do thank them for their concern but ask them to respect that there are many ways to parent babies. Some parents will research, agree and try an option with their baby while an alternative parenting option may suit another family better.
> 
> What we need to show is respect for the parenting options that are available today and what we can do on the facebook fan page is support and encourage the other parents that have researched and are educated in my parenting option and chosen it as their preferred option.
> 
> That sounds like witchy has seen this thread?Click to expand...

That response was actually posted on her website three days before this thread was created. I heard about her "expert advice" from other sources and saw it then. Obviously the whole internet is in uproar over it!


----------



## Tegans Mama

I read about this the other night. She sounds like a total psycho :wacko: I don't understand how anyone can think a baby is sick for attention or that it's ok to put 12 blankets on! :dohh:


----------



## Gingerspice

My LO room got very cold in wnter, but even when the house was single figures they did not have 12 blankets!!!

As for CC then being sick, this was the very reason we did not do it sooner, as they obviously were not ready despite waking 2 hourly from birth til we did do it and I had never got more than 4 hours consecutive sleep for over a year, even though I was at work I managed. Once they turned 11 months we did it, they cried for 2 minutes, did not cry til they were sick, and then that was pretty much it. They've slept through since. Night 2 I was so deep asleep as I hadn't slept like that for over a year, my body forgot to wake me to go to the loo - I peed the bed!!!


----------



## vaileasmama

i have 2 friends who use this book.
we all have girls the same age
1 of them started her lo on it at 2 weeks!!!
they were bragging bout how awesome their lo's are, sleeping thru, napping for 2 hours straight, routine to a dot etc... i didnt pay much attention to the method, as my lo sleeps thru anyway and she's a booby on demand, co sleeping kinda girl.
but now im not sure i can look at them both the same way... who in their right mind would do such a thing???!!!
im horrified, truly disgusted with their behaviour.
also, this woman was recently on a daytime tv show spruiking her book... and the only thing i remember bout it was her saying make sure ur lo is WARM, and i was thinking its 40 fuking degrees outside lady, my lo IS warm!!!!


----------



## CRWx

i've just seen & read this whole thread, i'm not a mum myself but even i know that all that is complete and utter bulls**t.. I think this woman is completely insane and i feel so sorry for the babies that have had to spend ages sobbing and result in them being sick because their parents think it's for attention :shock: how would she like it if she was left to sweat, cry and be sick and nobody help her? let alone not actually being able to do anything about it, ugh!


----------



## Tasha

Babushka99 said:


> That sounds like witchy has seen this thread?

:rofl: :rofl: witchy :haha:


----------



## Baby France

I think she has mental health issues, in fact the more I read the more it seems obvious!

She contradicts what she has written in her book i.e. leaving a baby to cry 6/7 hours and saying it won't affect the baby and in the response post says that she's never advised that.

She mentions her personal experience of her brother when anyone ever brings SIDS into the equation - as if her 'professional' opinion should be taken as gospel due to her experience IYKWIM? 

And a baby has a poo because its cold and to get attention :rofl: ...I mean seriously, she has problems if she firmly believes that!!!!

I also agree that regardless of the attention good/bad she loves it.

Definately a screw loose giving out advice that she has done! Poor babies :nope:


----------



## HollySSmith

I live in northern Ontario (Canada) and our temperatures fall anywhere from -40 to -25 almost every single night during the winter. We keep our home at 19 and I still only put one loosely knitted blanket on DS at night. I STILL get up to find him sweating. How in the hell can she think 12 blankets are safe to put on a baby???
EVERY SINGLE health professional has told me that it is far better for a baby to be on the cool side than be too warm. She is going kill someone's baby with her 'professional advice'. Soon you will see that she's being sued for just that. 
Honestly, the woman is not only insane but a fraud. This isn't 'sleep training' its abuse.


----------



## flubdub

Baby France said:


> I think she has mental health issues, in fact the more I read the more it seems obvious!
> 
> She contradicts what she has written in her book i.e. leaving a baby to cry 6/7 hours and saying it won't affect the baby and in the response post says that she's never advised that.
> 
> She mentions her personal experience of her brother when anyone ever brings SIDS into the equation - as if her 'professional' opinion should be taken as gospel due to her experience IYKWIM?
> 
> *And a baby has a poo because its cold and to get attention *:rofl: ...I mean seriously, she has problems if she firmly believes that!!!!
> 
> I also agree that regardless of the attention good/bad she loves it.
> 
> Definately a screw loose giving out advice that she has done! Poor babies :nope:

I just read that out to OH and he burst out laughing! :rofl:
Like, yeah, I _always_ poo when Im cold! :dohh:


----------



## kawaiigirl

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Baby France

I told my OH flubdub and he was laughing but saying she's got problems and crazy too!

Off topic but I LOVE your vid by the way :rofl:


----------



## binxyboo

I would be interested to know what she thinks about my baby.
I don't believe in CC or CIO.
He had reflux, so was often quite vomitty.
All he has ever had at night-time since he was about 4 weeks old is a sleeping bag (never more than 2.5 TOG).
He has slept through since he was just over 2 months old!!

That woman is just Bat-Shit Crazy!!


----------



## flubdub

Baby France said:


> I told my OH flubdub and he was laughing but saying she's got problems and crazy too!
> 
> Off topic but I LOVE your vid by the way :rofl:

:mrgreen: thanks!


----------



## Maman

that woman is crazy and shouldnt be let near babies!


----------



## Maman

p.s if your expecting a baby to sleep for more then 10 hours... dont get pregnant! they dont do that until they are 2, and if you didnt check on them anyways you would be neglectful


----------



## NG09

Maman said:


> p.s if your expecting a baby to sleep for more then 10 hours... dont get pregnant! they dont do that until they are 2, and if you didnt check on them anyways you would be neglectful

Hmm, not stricly tru. Mine sleps 10-11 hrs per night usually, I check him before I go to bed but if he isn't stirring in the night and I don't hear him moving about needing me then I don't set my alarm to get up and check him. That's not neglect.


----------



## louandivy

NG09 said:


> Maman said:
> 
> 
> p.s if your expecting a baby to sleep for more then 10 hours... dont get pregnant! they dont do that until they are 2, and if you didnt check on them anyways you would be neglectful
> 
> Hmm, not stricly tru. Mine sleps 10-11 hrs per night usually, I check him before I go to bed but if he isn't stirring in the night and I don't hear him moving about needing me then I don't set my alarm to get up and check him. That's not neglect.Click to expand...

I think she meant checking on them when they are upset :)


----------



## NG09

louandivy said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maman said:
> 
> 
> p.s if your expecting a baby to sleep for more then 10 hours... dont get pregnant! they dont do that until they are 2, and if you didnt check on them anyways you would be neglectful
> 
> Hmm, not stricly tru. Mine sleps 10-11 hrs per night usually, I check him before I go to bed but if he isn't stirring in the night and I don't hear him moving about needing me then I don't set my alarm to get up and check him. That's not neglect.Click to expand...
> 
> I think she meant checking on them when they are upset :)Click to expand...

Oops, sorry! :blush: Then yeh, when he's upset I'm out of bed like a shot!!


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## DueMarch2nd

https://www.facebook.com/dangersofsleeptraining?sk=info

join here to spread the word of her dangerous ways!


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## Sarah&Ady

DueMarch2nd said:


> https://www.facebook.com/dangersofsleeptraining?sk=info
> 
> join here to spread the word of her dangerous ways!

Thanks for the link x


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## madasa

Quite a few people (including me) got deleted from the page for respectfully questioning the advice re blankets etc. I get the impression that she knows darned well that her "methods" won't/don't stand up to scrutiny, so anything that is NOT singing her praises gets deleted. Blech. Poor babies :-(


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## brownlieB

I don't agree for babies, but I have seen on super nanny a toddler who would make himself sick through crying when he got jealous his mum was showing his sibling attention, and he wanted it. 

And the advice from Jo Frost was to ignore the vommiting as it's attention and therefore would keep doing it as it's the whole whether it's negative attention or positive it's still attention.

The boy did stop after a couple of days, but this boy was about 2 years old.

Please don't jump on me for this i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying i've seen this technique told before but for older children not babies xx


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## Babushka99

It could be attention seeking for a toddler to do that but they are still your baby and if they are crying for you I think you should just give them what they want for that emotional security and because you love them so much and they should know it & know that you are always there for them whenever they need you. They are only babies for a short while and soon they will grow out of that phase and have a better understanding of things.


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## madasa

brownlieB said:


> I don't agree for babies, but I have seen on super nanny a toddler who would make himself sick through crying when he got jealous his mum was showing his sibling attention, and he wanted it.
> 
> And the advice from Jo Frost was to ignore the vommiting as it's attention and therefore would keep doing it as it's the whole whether it's negative attention or positive it's still attention.
> 
> The boy did stop after a couple of days, but this boy was about 2 years old.
> 
> Please don't jump on me for this i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying i've seen this technique told before but for older children not babies xx

I'm not sure. Why assume that the child is not genuinely distressed, and that is what is causing them to be sick? That they are not being sick on purpose, but genuinely becoming very distressed by a situation and THAT is causing the vomiting? Why believe the worst of your (colloquial) child? 

I wonder if JF had the parents offer attention in OTHER ways, to reassure the toddler and THAT is what stopped the vomitting....


----------



## pixydust

Absolutely downright disgusting.


----------



## freckleonear

brownlieB said:


> I don't agree for babies, but I have seen on super nanny a toddler who would make himself sick through crying when he got jealous his mum was showing his sibling attention, and he wanted it.
> 
> And the advice from Jo Frost was to ignore the vommiting as it's attention and therefore would keep doing it as it's the whole whether it's negative attention or positive it's still attention.
> 
> The boy did stop after a couple of days, but this boy was about 2 years old.
> 
> Please don't jump on me for this i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying i've seen this technique told before but for older children not babies xx

My 3.5 year old has deliberately made himself sick a couple of times, can't quite remember why but I have the feeling that sibling jealously was one factor. Even though it was deliberate, the fact that he was upset enough to make himself sick meant that he had a deep underlying need, both for comfort him and for me to sort out the issues. My opinion is that if children are seeking even negative attention then they are not getting enough attention in the first place.


----------



## NaturalMomma

That woman has done NO research at all and is nothing but a quack. I would NOT listen to anything she has to say. What she suggests is abusive, neglectful and dangerous.


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## QueenieMurphy

It made me feel sick reading that quote. How absolutely vile. Giving no eye contact to a child thats been sick, its sounds abusive to me. I might look her up on facebook and give her a piece of my mind.

I seriously feel sickened by that.


----------



## Babushka99

Does she even have children or any experience herself or is she just an expert because she decided one day that she was?


----------



## madasa

I think she has a kid now.... Fairly recently, but for the majority of the time she's been giving advice I don't think so. She doesn't give evidence for stuff she advises and she spends half her time contradicting herself....


----------



## Janidog

brownlieB said:


> I don't agree for babies, but I have seen on super nanny a toddler who would make himself sick through crying when he got jealous his mum was showing his sibling attention, and he wanted it.
> 
> And the advice from Jo Frost was to ignore the vommiting as it's attention and therefore would keep doing it as it's the whole whether it's negative attention or positive it's still attention.
> 
> The boy did stop after a couple of days, but this boy was about 2 years old.
> 
> Please don't jump on me for this i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying i've seen this technique told before but for older children not babies xx

I watched that episode and the 2 year old would not leave his mother side at all, if she was making dinner or doing anything for her husband and other children he would be so jealous, and in the end it got to a point where the other children had to look after themselves and couldn't even go near mum without the 2 year kicking off, she had to carry him everywhere and if she walks out of the room he would cling to her legs. If your home life gets to that point where other children were being ignored then something has to be done


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

I'd be interested in knowing the full story about that, and how the little boy ended up being so insecure. Ruby is practically 2 and I can't possibly imagine her feeling the need to vomit to get my attention, there would be something seriously wrong with one or both of us if that was the case.


----------



## Janidog

Mum2b_Claire said:


> I'd be interested in knowing the full story about that, and how the little boy ended up being so insecure. Ruby is practically 2 and I can't possibly imagine her feeling the need to vomit to get my attention, there would be something seriously wrong with one or both of us if that was the case.

I'll have to do a search for it, but I think it was something along the lines of the mother still treating him like a young baby


----------



## madasa

Janidog said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in knowing the full story about that, and how the little boy ended up being so insecure. Ruby is practically 2 and I can't possibly imagine her feeling the need to vomit to get my attention, there would be something seriously wrong with one or both of us if that was the case.
> 
> I'll have to do a search for it, but I think it was something along the lines of the mother still treating him like a young babyClick to expand...

There could be a great deal NOT disclosed about this. How do we know that the child wasn't mistreated at some point? We don't. A two year old IS still a baby. They are not just mini versions of adults. The kind of "training" advised by supernanny and She Who Must Not Be Named and Tizzie Hall and any number of other "child experts" often doesn't address the underlying need that causes the problem in the first place. That is the problem I have with it.


----------



## flubdub

It seems shes just deleting all comments and people off her page that are not praising her every word.


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

I don't agree with her advice one bit, but I wanted to add that my daughter does in fact vomit to get attention. The reason I could never do CIO or CC is because of this very fact, I&#8217;m afraid she would choke on her own vomit. And the interesting thing here is that I never ignore my babies&#8217; cries. In Clarissa's case though, for example when traveling in her carseat and she gets impatient while stuck in traffic, she will start off by whimpering and eventually yelling and when that doesn't work, she cries a little and vomits. If I was letting her cry for an extended amount of time, than I would easily conclude that she vomits because she is in distress, but that isn't even the case.


----------



## LittleBoo

brownlieB said:


> I don't agree for babies, but I have seen on super nanny a toddler who would make himself sick through crying when he got jealous his mum was showing his sibling attention, and he wanted it.
> 
> And the advice from Jo Frost was to ignore the vommiting as it's attention and therefore would keep doing it as it's the whole whether it's negative attention or positive it's still attention.
> 
> The boy did stop after a couple of days, but this boy was about 2 years old.
> 
> Please don't jump on me for this i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying i've seen this technique told before but for older children not babies xx

I saw this too! I think Jo was right, it was twin boys if I remember correctly and they physically fought for their mum's attention, and after attempting to ignore them she'd give in and pick them up, so the boys would push further and further and learnt that if they cried hard enough to vomit they would get a result. Two year olds aren't babies, they need boundries and consistancy and the mother wasn't sticking to her guns, causing them to act out. After a few days of ignoring the behaviour consistantly and awarding good behaviour along with spending time with the boys seperately, the problem was gone. I highly doubt the mother was secretly beating them causing the behaviour. My son is 2 and he is smart, smart enough to figure out if he was to bang his head, mummy would come running with cuddles and attention. Sorry I know that was nothing to do with the OP, I think that the advice that woman has given is ridiculous, not to mention dangerous!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?


----------



## LittleBoo

No a 2 year old, not 7 months :p


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

LittleBoo said:


> No a 2 year old, not 7 months :p

Sorry, I forgot to quote I am Livid - I was referring to her post.


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

Mum2b_Claire said:


> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?

Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.


----------



## birdiex

I just posted, I'm thoroughly disgusted by her. This is what I posted, and I'll edit this if she replies.



> I hate to be a pain Tizzie, but I've read quite a lot about your sleep training methods. I myself am thoroughly confused as to why it's okay to overheat a little baby, leave them to vomit and expect them to sleep through the night? I don't een sleep through the night, I am a well adjusted adult, I'm not looking for attention and neither am I cold! A baby has been within you from the moment of conception to birth, and when they have only been on the earth a very comparatively short amount of time, they will not understand whatsoever why they are alone in a dark room, with no sounds or comfort. This will be distressing by nature, it is a situation that they don't know, don't understand and don't need.
> 
> They are not vindictive and don't cry to get your attention, they cry because they are hungry, need changing, are in pain or are in need of comfort. They cannot possibly tantrum because they do not yet understand "getting their own way". If you leave a baby to cry at night for "6 or 7 hours" (a direct quote from yourself), you might end up missing key signals that your baby is poorly. There of course is a difference in the sound of cry to a dirty cry or to a hungry cry. It is a distressed cry, and this is the cry you will be used to and IGNORING if you sleep train. You might have a reflux baby who is hurting and needs propping up, you might have a baby whose stomach is hurting or who has a headache from crying, indirectly inflicted by the person who is letting them cry. I'm curious to know why it is okay and indeed safe to do this to a baby? Please enlighten me! Also, deleting this comment will do no good, if you are infact right and promoting safe advice then it will be good for women to see how you deal with these issues and how you justify this.

ETA: No offence meant by the sleep training part, there are obviously safe ways to do this that work for parents. Tizzie's method is not one of those, and that's what I'm criticising, not all CIO/CC-ers :thumbup:


----------



## birdiex

I also got deleted from the page :grr:


----------



## Seraphim

I_AM_LIVID said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?
> 
> Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.Click to expand...

She could just be relieved to see you or that the car's stopped. Maybe she gets motion sickness?


----------



## Seraphim

Does Tizzie have kids? God I hope social services know about her.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Tizzie has one child - quite young I think.


----------



## flubdub

I_AM_LIVID said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?
> 
> Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.Click to expand...

How does she do it? Does she put her hands down her mouth?


----------



## flubdub

birdiex said:


> I just posted, I'm thoroughly disgusted by her. This is what I posted, and I'll edit this if she replies.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be a pain Tizzie, but I've read quite a lot about your sleep training methods. I myself am thoroughly confused as to why it's okay to overheat a little baby, leave them to vomit and expect them to sleep through the night? I don't een sleep through the night, I am a well adjusted adult, I'm not looking for attention and neither am I cold! A baby has been within you from the moment of conception to birth, and when they have only been on the earth a very comparatively short amount of time, they will not understand whatsoever why they are alone in a dark room, with no sounds or comfort. This will be distressing by nature, it is a situation that they don't know, don't understand and don't need.
> 
> They are not vindictive and don't cry to get your attention, they cry because they are hungry, need changing, are in pain or are in need of comfort. They cannot possibly tantrum because they do not yet understand "getting their own way". If you leave a baby to cry at night for "6 or 7 hours" (a direct quote from yourself), you might end up missing key signals that your baby is poorly. There of course is a difference in the sound of cry to a dirty cry or to a hungry cry. It is a distressed cry, and this is the cry you will be used to and IGNORING if you sleep train. You might have a reflux baby who is hurting and needs propping up, you might have a baby whose stomach is hurting or who has a headache from crying, indirectly inflicted by the person who is letting them cry. I'm curious to know why it is okay and indeed safe to do this to a baby? Please enlighten me! Also, deleting this comment will do no good, if you are infact right and promoting safe advice then it will be good for women to see how you deal with these issues and how you justify this.
> 
> ETA: No offence meant by the sleep training part, there are obviously safe ways to do this that work for parents. Tizzie's method is not one of those, and that's what I'm criticising, not all CIO/CC-ers :thumbup:Click to expand...

She should have answered that. Its not like you are having a go. She doesnt do herself any favours whatsoever.


----------



## freckleonear

I_AM_LIVID said:


> I don't agree with her advice one bit, but I wanted to add that my daughter does in fact vomit to get attention. The reason I could never do CIO or CC is because of this very fact, Im afraid she would choke on her own vomit. And the interesting thing here is that I never ignore my babies cries. In Clarissa's case though, for example when traveling in her carseat and she gets impatient while stuck in traffic, she will start off by whimpering and eventually yelling and when that doesn't work, she cries a little and vomits. If I was letting her cry for an extended amount of time, than I would easily conclude that she vomits because she is in distress, but that isn't even the case.

It sounds like motion sickness to me. :) I was always very carsick as a baby (still am sometimes) and my children also get travel sick.


----------



## birdiex

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Tizzie has one child - quite young I think.

A 4-month-old called Cillian. He's on her video a couple of pages ago x


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

Seraphim said:


> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?
> 
> Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.Click to expand...
> 
> She could just be relieved to see you or that the car's stopped. Maybe she gets motion sickness?Click to expand...

I did consider that, but nope, she doesn't get motion sickness. When I am with OH and we are driving long distance and she gets like that, I normally prop myself to the backseat between the two carseats instead of us pulling over. When she sees me, she stops. I normally entertain her while in her carseat and she enjoys it and giggles, but when I go back to the front seat and she can't see me anymore, it's back to moaning and eventually crying (which then leads to vomiting if not attended to quickly). So, yes, she is relieved to see me, but babies are also manipulative and mine has certainly learned that when she doesn't get the attention she wants while driving, she can vomit and get her way. Still, I attend to her immedietly and don't agree with advice that I should ignore her vomiting... or the trigger for that matter, which is crying. I never let her just cry it out and never will.


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

flubdub said:


> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?
> 
> Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.Click to expand...
> 
> How does she do it? Does she put her hands down her mouth?Click to expand...

No. She simply cries and if I don't immedietly settle her, she opens her mouth like she is choking and vomits.


----------



## flubdub

I_AM_LIVID said:


> Seraphim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?
> 
> Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.Click to expand...
> 
> She could just be relieved to see you or that the car's stopped. Maybe she gets motion sickness?Click to expand...
> 
> I did consider that, but nope, she doesn't get motion sickness. When I am with OH and we are driving long distance and she gets like that, I normally prop myself to the backseat between the two carseats instead of us pulling over. When she sees me, she stops. I normally entertain her while in her carseat and she enjoys it and giggles, but when I go back to the front seat and she can't see me anymore, it's back to moaning and eventually crying (which then leads to vomiting if not attended to quickly). So, yes, she is relieved to see me, but *babies are also manipulative* and mine has certainly learned that when she doesn't get the attention she wants while driving, she can vomit and get her way. Still, I attend to her immedietly and don't agree with advice that I should ignore her vomiting... or the trigger for that matter, which is crying. I never let her just cry it out and never will.Click to expand...

Oh, I wouldnt say that.


----------



## OmarsMum

If I leave Omar to cry he will end up vomiting. I don't leave him to cry at all. Once the monitor went off & we didn't hear him crying ( he was around 8-9 months), he ended up choking with his saliva & vomiting. If he's in pain or hurts himself he also vomits if he goes on crying. He doesn't do it on purpose, he simply can't control it. He's not from the crying type since he was a baby but if he cries for a serious reason he ends up throwing up


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

flubdub said:


> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seraphim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I don't think a 7 month old is capable of deciding to vomit deliberately to get your attention, surely?
> 
> Oh hun, than surely you don't know my 7-month-old daughter. My babies are generally easy babies and don't do a lot of crying for anything and are given all the attention in the world. Clarissa, however, has learned that when traveling in her carseat, she can get me to pull over quickly and attend to her by vomiting. And when I do, the thing that gets to me most is that she pulls out her arms for me to take her out of her carseat and when I do, she starts smiling and laughing. So, clearly to her it's a game. She knows whimpers and a few screams won't get me to pull over, but vomiting always does the trick.Click to expand...
> 
> She could just be relieved to see you or that the car's stopped. Maybe she gets motion sickness?Click to expand...
> 
> I did consider that, but nope, she doesn't get motion sickness. When I am with OH and we are driving long distance and she gets like that, I normally prop myself to the backseat between the two carseats instead of us pulling over. When she sees me, she stops. I normally entertain her while in her carseat and she enjoys it and giggles, but when I go back to the front seat and she can't see me anymore, it's back to moaning and eventually crying (which then leads to vomiting if not attended to quickly). So, yes, she is relieved to see me, but *babies are also manipulative* and mine has certainly learned that when she doesn't get the attention she wants while driving, she can vomit and get her way. Still, I attend to her immedietly and don't agree with advice that I should ignore her vomiting... or the trigger for that matter, which is crying. I never let her just cry it out and never will.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I wouldnt say that.Click to expand...

From what I&#8217;ve observed with my little ones, I DO say so. And I don&#8217;t even mean manipulation in a bad way. I&#8217;m not talking about babies being deceitful or vindictive as I don&#8217;t believe babies have it in them to be &#8216;evil&#8217;. What I&#8217;m saying is babies naturally learn that if they want to, say, be picked up, they can cry &#8211; it&#8217;s a form of communication for them, but the very fact is that they are manipulating you to do what they want and therefore fulfill their needs. Manipulation is a basic skill that they acquire to communicate with us and it&#8217;s not necessarily a bad thing. Mine have me wrapped around their tiny fingers and I&#8217;m completely baby led. I cater to their every need because they have learned to instinctually manipulate me and OH.

ETA: And I don't know if it's an age thing, but now that they have hit 7 months I'm seeing it more and more. For example, if they are watching cartoons (Tom and Jerry is their fav) and I change the channel, they start to whine and if I don't change back, they cry. Also, I noticed they whine more with OH than me because he does EVERYTHING they want, whereas I sometimes ignore their moans and by doing so have naturally set a few boundaries.


----------



## madasa

Oooo Livid, you TERRIBLE parent!! Don't you know Tom and Jerry is a valid need that MUST be met?!! 

j/k!!! :haha:


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

madasa said:


> Oooo Livid, you TERRIBLE parent!! Don't you know Tom and Jerry is a valid need that MUST be met?!!
> 
> j/k!!! :haha:

My only advice to new mothers is...DON'T let your babies watch Tom and Jerry. Tis pure evil! The LOs lure you in by laughing when Tom chases Jerry and doesn't catch him and you think to yourself 'awwww, how cute that they are laughing at the tellie'. Big mistake. Now I have resorted to recording my fav shows and watching them when babies are asleep. Recently I almost missed the episode where Dr Torres on Grey's Anatomy found out she was preggers with Mark's baby. I would have never forgiven the twins had I actually missed it :haha:


----------



## flubdub

:rofl:


----------



## birdiex

flubdub - Your signature gets me EVERY time, I'm always trying to swat at the screen! :rofl:


----------



## flubdub

birdiex said:


> flubdub - Your signature gets me EVERY time, I'm always trying to swat at the screen! :rofl:

:haha:


----------



## MamaBare

birdiex said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> Tizzie has one child - quite young I think.
> 
> A 4-month-old called Cillian. He's on her video a couple of pages ago xClick to expand...

She also has an older son Darragh.


----------



## CRWx

ooer ^ 1 post, signed up just to set that straight :dohh:


----------



## zzypeg

special_kala said:


> For a baby to be so upset to be sick must be awful.
> 
> Not too long ago I cried until I was sick and I couldnt breath or think straight I was that upset. Cant even imagine how that feels to a poor baby who cant even rationalise it in the slightest :(


i was going to say the same thing..happened to me 2 weeks ago, and I managed after a while to get my head round it and sort myself out but like you say, how can a little baby do that! the only way an upset baby can learn to deal with things is from love, cuddles and soothing from a parent!
xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## MamaBare

CRWx said:


> ooer ^ 1 post, signed up just to set that straight :dohh:

Oh, i probably should gave said 'hi' first. 

I'm not a SOS sympathiser at all, sorry if it seemed that way. I have a slightly ghoulish habit of stalking the Facebook page and being shocked, amazed at the idiocy, but mostly horrified for those little babies. I can't understand how we've evolved to the point where we can view our children as inconveniences. So much so, that 'we' are prepared to risk their lives and future mental health - and all so we get our 12 interrupted hours. 

It's just barbaric. 
Found this page by googling because the FB group kept going on about 'the other' page, and I was curious.


----------



## CRWx

sorry i thought it was just to set that straight, i'm sorry xx


----------



## EllaAndLyla

Right I am sorry to bring this thread up as it is quite old, I have only just found out about this tizzie witch bitch and I am absolutley disgusted in her 'parenting' tips. 

I really really really want to start a campaign against this woman!! I wish it was easier to beable to spread the word to these mothers that are eating the crap she is feeding them! I already wrote on her FB page but she deleted half of what I had said then blocked me, that was within 10 mins of writing it. She obviously knows what she is suggesting is wrong then? Bitch should be locked up, and treated the way she expects people to treats their children! A child is precious, why do such horrible things to it. 

*NURTURE OVER NEGLECT!!!*

Sorry, rant over! But if any one wants to join me please do, I have an adrenaline rush right now from getting so angry about this woman/pig !!!


----------



## mummy2lola

She obviously had this done to her to turn her into a cold heartless bitch who believes she has turned out brilliantly and thinks we should all walk about not giving a shit about anyone.maybe she wants the next generation to b stone cold Roberts? People like that shouldn't b allowed around people,let alone babies and she definitely needs sterilization.maybe social services need to be reading what this so called mother believes is good for her children xx


----------



## MrsPoodle

I couldn't even read most of that stuff, I just wanted to cry, I was horrified. What a cow.


----------



## emzky90

I think we should all ambush her facebook page- silly silly woman- i'm so angry for all the crap she feeds these vulnerable stressed out mummies!


----------



## sianyld

i havent read it but from the jist of wats been said on here, it is absolutely digusting! she is thick as shite by the sounds of things! i cant believe people actually follow and implement her advice! awful!


----------



## lindseymw

I have to admit, I haven't read all the pages, just the first couple & I'm quite literally shocked by what this Tizzie "so called Expert" Hall has given out in advice?

I'm also shocked by the fact parents are actually following this advice???

A snippet from someone posting of FB YESTERDAY! (Removed FB Names from Quote btw)



> hi ladies, just wondering if any WA mums can help me. We are on holidays in perth and last night my LO had a horrible nights sleep. I couldn seem to get his bedding right? He had much less blankets than he does at hm but still seemed too warm. How many layers do you use? Thanks!!
> 19 hours ago
> 
> *Name* i use a sleeping bag, sheet and two more blankets if that helps
> 19 hours ago
> 
> *Name* I have a *2.5 tog bag, and 10 layers (two are bamboo, the rest are target blankets). We used to have 12 layers in Tassie at the same temp*.
> 12 hours ago
> 
> *Name* ive found the last few nights really variable as well. We have a 2.5 tog bag, sheet folded in 2 and 4 blankets
> 7 hours ago


----------



## veganmum2be

mad isn't she. wish someone would remove the children from her care lock her up and put her in a cot swaddled, in a sleeping bag with 12 blankets on her, in australian heat. and then when shes sick because shes been crying for 7 hours just leave her to it.
IDIOT!


----------



## KatieB

I don't understand why you would have a baby and expect no sleepless nights, I know some do of their own accord but most don't. This obsession with babies STTN is begining to piss me off. Don't have a baby if you can't be arsed to soothe it and want to sleep 10 hours a night, every night. "Save our Sleep" - get a grip. As for putting all those blankets on a baby and laying the surrounding area like some sick bay? It's abuse.


----------



## T-Bex

:growlmad:


----------



## lhancock90

This makes me want to cry/slap her in the face.


----------



## AFC84

lindseymw said:


> I have to admit, I haven't read all the pages, just the first couple & I'm quite literally shocked by what this Tizzie "so called Expert" Hall has given out in advice?
> 
> I'm also shocked by the fact parents are actually following this advice???
> 
> A snippet from someone posting of FB YESTERDAY! (Removed FB Names from Quote btw)
> 
> 
> 
> hi ladies, just wondering if any WA mums can help me. We are on holidays in perth and last night my LO had a horrible nights sleep. I couldn seem to get his bedding right? He had much less blankets than he does at hm but still seemed too warm. How many layers do you use? Thanks!!
> 19 hours ago
> 
> *Name* i use a sleeping bag, sheet and two more blankets if that helps
> 19 hours ago
> 
> *Name* I have a *2.5 tog bag, and 10 layers (two are bamboo, the rest are target blankets). We used to have 12 layers in Tassie at the same temp*.
> 12 hours ago
> 
> *Name* ive found the last few nights really variable as well. We have a 2.5 tog bag, sheet folded in 2 and 4 blankets
> 7 hours agoClick to expand...

WSS...I am absolutely shocked at what a complete moron this woman is. :nope:

I've never needed more than 2 blankets plus one thin cellular even when it's been really cold, nevermind 24 bloody degrees! 

Vomiting for attention possibly takes the biscuit for most ridiculous baby "fact" I've ever heard.

I can't believe this idiot is actually selling books...and in what way could she ever consider herself a "baby whisperer"?! That would imply she had some sort of consideration and intuition :dohh:


----------



## lindseymw

KatieB said:


> I don't understand why you would have a baby and expect no sleepless nights, I know some do of their own accord but most don't. This obsession with babies STTN is begining to piss me off. Don't have a baby if you can't be arsed to soothe it and want to sleep 10 hours a night, every night. "Save our Sleep" - get a grip. As for putting all those blankets on a baby and laying the surrounding area like some sick bay? It's abuse.

Completely agree with this!

Doesn't matter how much "training" you give to a baby, they will STTN when THEY are ready, whether thats 2weeks, 2months or 2 years. All you can do in the meantime is get up, feed & soothe baby. (& stock up on lots of concealer & foundation!)

When I had DS1, it was the middle of winter & he was prem, I still didn't put 12 blankets + Sheets + sleeping bag on him! I think I put maybe 4-5 layers + sleeping bag & I was constantly checking him to make sure I wasnt overheating him!


----------



## Joyzerelly

> I often come across a baby who has learnt to vomit at bedtime during failed attempts at controlled crying. If you have one of these babies you will need to teach your child that vomiting will not get your attention or buy any extra time. This is hard, but it has to be done to stop the vomiting. The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Layer the towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her to the other end. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do all this and be calm and confident through out, so you can fool your baby into thinking you don't care about vomit.

What an ignorant bleeeep! To me this is child abuse. So sad. I hope for her children's sake that she isn't a mother.


----------



## KatieB

lindseymw said:


> KatieB said:
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you would have a baby and expect no sleepless nights, I know some do of their own accord but most don't. This obsession with babies STTN is begining to piss me off. Don't have a baby if you can't be arsed to soothe it and want to sleep 10 hours a night, every night. "Save our Sleep" - get a grip. As for putting all those blankets on a baby and laying the surrounding area like some sick bay? It's abuse.
> 
> Completely agree with this!
> 
> Doesn't matter how much "training" you give to a baby, they will STTN when THEY are ready, whether thats 2weeks, 2months or 2 years. All you can do in the meantime is get up, feed & soothe baby. (& stock up on lots of concealer & foundation!)
> 
> When I had DS1, it was the middle of winter & he was prem, I still didn't put 12 blankets + Sheets + sleeping bag on him! I think I put maybe 4-5 layers + sleeping bag & I was constantly checking him to make sure I wasnt overheating him!Click to expand...

Exactly! I can count on one hand the amount of decent night's sleep I've had. Louis won't nap unless it's with me, he won't sleep in his cot half the time, he ends up in our bed and OH is kicked out but I won't have him screaming his head off and to think of putting all those blankets on a baby makes me so upset and angry :cry: You just have to muddle through, right now DS is on OH's lap fast asleep as he woke up screaming in his cot so came downstairs until we go up. Last night however for the first time he slept in his cot from 7.30 to 6am, I was gobsmacked but I don't expect or force that. I might be called soft but I don't think I am! I am a huge fan of under eye concealer these days too! :haha: x


----------



## EllaAndLyla

I posted on her FB page, I wanted to rant so bad but I didn't want to be removed from the page so I can always see what she says. I basically wrote that she doesnt benefit the babies by wrapping them up, all she does is make them STTN because they are too hot to wake!!! I was actually glad to see a few people liked my comment so not everyone on her FB page is following her 'advice'


----------



## tina3747

I'm just thankfull she's not my mum... If god forbid, she does have any children..that they make it to their first birthday alive. 
Please god cause her some much need pain or harm, in any way ,shape or form. A lightening bolt into her thick skull would be perfect.


----------



## lindseymw

EllaAndLyla said:


> I posted on her FB page, I wanted to rant so bad but I didn't want to be removed from the page so I can always see what she says. I basically wrote that she doesnt benefit the babies by wrapping them up, all she does is make them STTN because they are too hot to wake!!! I was actually glad to see a few people liked my comment so not everyone on her FB page is following her 'advice'

Do you have to "like" the FB page 1st before you can post?


----------



## mummy2lola

I wanted to do like for ur post on her page Ella but it didn't let me xx


----------



## Inge

im so angry that people believe this crap! If Leo cried he is soothed back to sleep, he might wake in the night and have a little cry and fall back to sleep after a few seconds but any longer and Im up. He STTN most nights.
How can a baby be sick or poo for attention?!? God im so angry and reading some stuff makes me want to cry. How can some mums think its safe? I watched her swaddle vid on youtube and was shocked at how many layers she uses! Leo is in a nappy,vest and sleeping bag tonight and hes fine. How can a baby need 12 layers?:dohh: has this woman been sued yet? its only a matter of time :nope:


----------



## veganmum2be

yeah you have to like to post you can unlike after though


----------



## msfoxymax

I just posted on her page. She is a bloody idiot!!


----------



## sequeena

Wow. :wacko:


----------



## lindseymw

hmmm im guessing if you don't agree with her, post = deleted (on FB)


----------



## msfoxymax

My post is still there lol


----------



## EllaAndLyla

She deleted more than half of mine!! I posted the first part and then added 2-3 more comments underneath the actual post and she deleted 2 of them. But then again I did call her some bad names! :D I don't think she takes to critisism very well, stupid bitch.


----------



## EllaAndLyla

hehehe i commented again! She boils my blood! I want to be so horrible to her!


----------



## msfoxymax

I agreed with your comment and had a go at the bitch that spoke about your spelling. Daft cows xxx


----------



## young_n_proud

Just read the first couple pages of this thread, but this woman makes me so furious. It literally breaks my heart to think that parents are doing this to their children. Is there not a way to report this somehow as child abuse and neglect? Surely this cannot be legal.


----------



## lindseymw

All the comments have been deleted from the wall. 

If I go to my profile, and click "Lindsey wrote on Ella's post on SOS wall etc" I can still see the original conversation, but it has been removed from the actual wall. (Unless my FB is playing up?)


----------



## EllaAndLyla

lindseymw said:


> All the comments have been deleted from the wall.
> 
> If I go to my profile, and click "Lindsey wrote on Ella's post on SOS wall etc" I can still see the original conversation, but it has been removed from the actual wall. (Unless my FB is playing up?)

I think its facebook, I have only just seen the post emma wrote! I thought I was the only one who had written lol, I cant see any replies on my post apart from likes lol, I dont even know if there are any!!!


----------



## EllaAndLyla

'I am going to go to sleep now with my baby who is wearing ONE sleepsuit and has ONE sleeping bag on, nothing more! And a brilliant long and healthy sleep that will be aswell!' 

My last comment! lol I feel like a bitch, I am never bitchy but these ignorant people are sooooo annoying!


----------



## lindseymw

EllaAndLyla said:


> lindseymw said:
> 
> 
> All the comments have been deleted from the wall.
> 
> If I go to my profile, and click "Lindsey wrote on Ella's post on SOS wall etc" I can still see the original conversation, but it has been removed from the actual wall. (Unless my FB is playing up?)
> 
> I think its facebook, I have only just seen the post emma wrote! I thought I was the only one who had written lol, I cant see any replies on my post apart from likes lol, I dont even know if there are any!!!Click to expand...

Oh hang on, I wrote on Emmas! Ella, Emma, they both begin with an E! I must be sleep deprived! Maybe I should the follow the SOS routine & I'll be less sleep deprived then!


----------



## msfoxymax

lindseymw said:


> EllaAndLyla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lindseymw said:
> 
> 
> All the comments have been deleted from the wall.
> 
> If I go to my profile, and click "Lindsey wrote on Ella's post on SOS wall etc" I can still see the original conversation, but it has been removed from the actual wall. (Unless my FB is playing up?)
> 
> I think its facebook, I have only just seen the post emma wrote! I thought I was the only one who had written lol, I cant see any replies on my post apart from likes lol, I dont even know if there are any!!!Click to expand...
> 
> Oh hang on, I wrote on Emmas! Ella, Emma, they both begin with an E! I must be sleep deprived! Maybe I should the follow the SOS routine & I'll be less sleep deprived then!Click to expand...

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:


----------



## Joyzerelly

Can someone send me a link to her FB page? I can't seem to find it. Cheers :)


----------



## EllaAndLyla

This is it xx


----------



## EllaAndLyla

ohhhh :( she deleted me and even if I like the page again I cant write nothing, I saw a post on there begging me to comment!!


----------



## buddyIV

KatieB said:


> I don't understand why you would have a baby and expect no sleepless nights, I know some do of their own accord but most don't. This obsession with babies STTN is begining to piss me off. Don't have a baby if you can't be arsed to soothe it and want to sleep 10 hours a night, every night. "Save our Sleep" - get a grip. As for putting all those blankets on a baby and laying the surrounding area like some sick bay? It's abuse.

Couldn't have put it better myself :thumbup: I expected to get no sleep when my LO was born....that's normal! It's hard, but we shouldn't expect an infant to do something their just not capable of.


----------



## emzky90

msfoxymax said:


> I agreed with your comment and had a go at the bitch that spoke about your spelling. Daft cows xxx

Thanks hun- only spelt one thing wrong lol- out of fast typing in anger haha. Silly bint. I've reported her page on facebook too. She needs to stop feeding this crap!


----------



## Lauki

It's really upsetting isn't it! 
She figures because adults sleep under a 15 tog quilt, babies should have as many blankets/sleepingbags until they reach 15 tog. What kind of nonsense is that?!

I'm really upset by todays society forcing little tiny babies into routines and making you feel like a bad mum for wanting to comfort your baby!! I get looked at funny for rocking my baby to sleep every single time she either naps or goes to bed! She's a baby for crying out loud, not an independent individual!
If I wanted a proper night sleep and couldn't be bothered with taking care of a little person then I wouldn't have had a baby! I knew I was completely prepared to shift my priorities from me being number 1 to my baby being the most important thing. She's completely dependent on me and I will comfort her and rock her and hug her as much as she needs it so she grows up to be a happy, loved and warm person who loves her mum because she knows her mum will always be there for her, no matter what!

I decided to have a baby to cherish and to love, she's not some kind of accessorie I can show off to people. If I get asked if she sleeps through the night yet I tell everyone 'No, but she's 9 weeks old so I wouldn't have expected her to, she will when she is ready, not when I force her to!'.

I'm sick and tired of feeling bad for rocking her to sleep and for trying to make my baby a confident little girl! It's a good thing I'm doing this!!!


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## mummy2lola

Is it just where I'm looking or have all our negative comments been romoved from her page and just been left with her "cult"? Since I tried to leave a message I can't see any of them xx


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## MamaBare

Lovely post here https://www.evolutionaryparenting.com/?p=387


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## Lauki

i_want_one said:


> Is it just where I'm looking or have all our negative comments been romoved from her page and just been left with her "cult"? Since I tried to leave a message I can't see any of them xx

They've all been removed. There's only her followers posts now!! 
I can't stand people who can't take criticism. Surely if she really believed what she did was a good thing, she could argue her case?!


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## mummy2lola

That's what I thought and quite clearly age doesn't want her followers to know that there are healthy loving ways to get a contented baby that is genuinely happy xx


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## MamaBare

Lauki said:


> i_want_one said:
> 
> 
> Is it just where I'm looking or have all our negative comments been romoved from her page and just been left with her "cult"? Since I tried to leave a message I can't see any of them xx
> 
> They've all been removed. There's only her followers posts now!!
> I can't stand people who can't take criticism. Surely if she really believed what she did was a good thing, she could argue her case?!Click to expand...

No, any criticism is "trolling". 

Have you seen the letter the Analytical Armadillo wrote her? She did reply, but it was somewhat lacking.


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## EllaAndLyla

Her way of parenting is a lazy one. She thinks that these babies are STTN when really they are just being overheated to the point where they can't wake up! I saw a comment on her page saying that her books should be given out to new mothers as they are leaving the hospital with their newborns. If her methods were good ones then I am sure the NHS would have considered using her techniques to help new mums, obviously her techniques are bad and dangerous because they don't. The company FSID's (an organisation trying to help prevent SIDS/cot death) have asked her to change what she writes in her books because its dangerous, surely that alone is enough for these mothers to realise it is wrong!!!
She says to leave a baby to cry for 7 hours is okay because the child is simply trying to manipulate you!!!! what the hell? After all the childs 'needs' (fed, changed, warm) are met, the only reason they could cry after would be for attention. 
Ok, I would like to ask her, what if the baby is teething? Bored? Scared? Just needs a cuddle? Has a headache? Doesn't feel well?... Oh yeah I forgot, my baby is not ill, its purely being sick for attention! How could I be so stupid to think that she might have a bug, or be so over worked up crying that she physically can't help being sick!? 

God this woman is a twat! Would love to treat her like this, then see how she feels. A babies only way of true communication is crying. If your child is crying then something is wrong, wether it be an illness, needing a cuddle, being scared, even if it is for attention. If your baby is so longing for attention to the point where they are sick then you do not ignore it! grrrrr


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## EllaAndLyla

MamaBare said:


> Lauki said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i_want_one said:
> 
> 
> Is it just where I'm looking or have all our negative comments been romoved from her page and just been left with her "cult"? Since I tried to leave a message I can't see any of them xx
> 
> They've all been removed. There's only her followers posts now!!
> I can't stand people who can't take criticism. Surely if she really believed what she did was a good thing, she could argue her case?!Click to expand...
> 
> No, any criticism is "trolling".
> 
> Have you seen the letter the Analytical Armadillo wrote her? She did reply, but it was somewhat lacking.Click to expand...

Could you find a link? or quote it, I would love to read it x


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## MamaBare

EllaAndLyla said:


> Could you find a link? or quote it, I would love to read it x

It starts here https://www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2011/07/tizzie-hall-fsid-formal-request-for.html 

It's very interesting.


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## supertabby

Can't post a link as I'm on my probe but just found a website that has quoted her response to criticism. In response to her being called on using blankets in addition to sleeping bags (against fsids advice) she has said that she thinks the advice is not based on fsids research but what the sleeping bag manufacturers want them to say!

There's a case study on her website about a baby who she helped to sleep better, you have to pay to get the advice but she's shown a picture of the baby now happily sleeping. It appears to be a newborn with an assortment of pillows and loose covers underneath him, a soft toy next to his head and blankets layered up to what looks like a few inches! This woman's advice is so dangerous its surely verging on a criminal act?! I'm horrified!

ETA: Sorry if I've repeated what others have already said. I haven't read the whole thread yet but notice the above post is linked to the website I have also mentioned.


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## Lauki

Surely she should be reported to someone?! She's giving dangerous advice to parents and she should be stopped. It's scary that people listen to her. For me this is a form of abuse. She's forcing babies to sleep longer, because they're so hot they won't wake up and because they're so wrapped up that they can't wake themselves up. Surely babies don't have these instincts of arrousing themselves from their sleep for nothing!

Her comment about the FSIDS not doing research and base their advice on sleeping bag manufacturers is just completely ridiculous. 

I really fancy swaddling her, putting her in a sleeping bag and then putting 16 blankets on top of her in a 24 degrees celcius room and then leave her there to experience what she is doing to all these poor little babies!!


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## EllaAndLyla

MamaBare said:


> EllaAndLyla said:
> 
> 
> Could you find a link? or quote it, I would love to read it x
> 
> It starts here https://www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2011/07/tizzie-hall-fsid-formal-request-for.html
> 
> It's very interesting.Click to expand...

Thank you! x


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## EllaAndLyla

Wow, just read that on her forum she actually said



> "on a newborn to 3 month old baby sleeping in a bassinet is 10 layers, a newborn to 3mth old baby sleeping in cot is 12 layers and a baby 4 months and over is 16 layers".

She didn't even state the room temperature.


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## LilLickysBump

Hey girls - Have not read all the replies.....

Sheesh, I am totally shocked that advice like that is out there.....
Dangerous, and downright abusive!
My daughter will never be left to cry so much she is sick, never in her life be wrapped in 12+ blankets and never left to cry thinking no one will come for her....

Bloody woman has boiled my piss (scuse my french)!


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## Lauki

My daughter was just asleep with 1 blanket and her neck was sweaty. I took it off her, cause she was clearly too warm with 1 layer. And yes it woke her up and I had to put her too sleep again, but I'd rather do that than forcing her to stay asleep because she's too warm to wake up!


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## Louppey

Blimey! She'd be horrified at my parenting. I rock my LO off to sleep, and even then I just lay her in the cot with just a sleepsuit on :shock: (It's 25 degrees in her room, sometimes more :wacko:) Oh and if she cries I go in there and comfort her.

I never realised I was such a terrible parent :haha:

Stupid cow should be shot.


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## emzky90

It really concerns me that she has built a whole empire and has followers that admire her for this dangerous advice. I've reported her facebook page for this reason. My posts have now been removed from her page as she clearly doesn't like people telling the truth. So scary. Something needs to be done but what can we do?!


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## mummy2lola

Lola is asleep at the mo and is in her vest and is comfy.she was really ratty in her baby grow so I just took it off and she settled instantly xx


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## mummy2lola

Have u seen the pic on her wall with the shop selling her stuff? The caption reads "is your baby sleeping safe and sound?".surely this needs to be addressed by health proffessionals bcoz she's going to end up the cause of mums misstreating their children everywhere.how is it possible for someone to just publish crap and become rich from it without anyone being aware of what's actually being sold xx


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## EllaAndLyla

emzky90 said:


> It really concerns me that she has built a whole empire and has followers that admire her for this dangerous advice. I've reported her facebook page for this reason. My posts have now been removed from her page as she clearly doesn't like people telling the truth. So scary. *Something needs to be done but what can we do?!*

Start an anti tizzie campaign? I don't know wether we would get followers or not? I might make a website or something.. don't know if this will work or not though?!


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## Lauki

I would follow you!


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## EllaAndLyla

I am going to make one, tizzie won't know what hit her!


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## mummy2lola

I'd join u.I don't have a facebook account but I always use my brothers so I'd join that way.I'd get all my family involved aswell xx


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## veganmum2be

has anyone been on her website and seen her stuff? and the prices? 
jesus. shes actually a clever lady shes manipulated thousands of people into believing she speaks sense and that her products are the ones that must be used.

she goes on about how everything must be cotton or bamboo, but there was a post yesterday someone asking why the comfortors she sells are polyester, especially when they end up over babies face most of the time, she gave a silly reply. 
and those comfortors a 4 pack is £75 quid. its reccomended that one is with baby every time it sleeps. hell you can get them in the bloody pound shop of the same material just a different bloody character, and people buy these?!

she really does make my blood boil. surely someone somewhere has the power to do something about it :(


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## Lauki

She must be loaded! I feel so bad for her sons :(.


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## Lauki

I feel like finding her and punching her in the face..
She's saying you should put your baby on a routine from the second they're born and not feed on demand because letting your baby suck is bad for your breasts?! You have to pump to keep up your supply though :dohh:.. And she says foremilk is bad and babies should only drink hindmilk.
A brandnew newborn is only allowed to be fed every 3 hours?! Is she mental?!

If you feel like getting wound up, watch some of these:
https://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/media-interviews/


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## EllaAndLyla

lol i have made one, it is crap at the moment! Its just an example and I haven't added much...https://safesleeping.webs.com/


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## EllaAndLyla

if anyone wants to help, or wants to improve it let me know.. PM me or something :D xx


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## Lauki

Registered! Now I'm gonna put my baby to sleep without blankets, because it's warm!


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## Eve

She is sick, she promotes child abuse, claims to give a shit about SIDS, goes against the guidelines and is totally pathetic and money grubbing! I would love to do to her what she advises done to a baby, she how she likes sitting in her own shit and vomit while she cries alone in a room strapped down by layers upon layers of blankets! She is a nut job!


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## Eve

May I please add your website link to my website? Also can I promote on my FB page www.naturalgentleparenting.webs.com and www.facebook.com/ngparenting


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## MamaBare

EllaAndLyla said:


> emzky90 said:
> 
> 
> It really concerns me that she has built a whole empire and has followers that admire her for this dangerous advice. I've reported her facebook page for this reason. My posts have now been removed from her page as she clearly doesn't like people telling the truth. So scary. *Something needs to be done but what can we do?!*
> 
> Start an anti tizzie campaign? I don't know wether we would get followers or not? I might make a website or something.. don't know if this will work or not though?!Click to expand...

There are already a couple of FB groups about this the Dangers of Baby Training for one, and Tizzie Hall didn't save our sleep. 
People need to understand that most of the "problems" they are trying to solve are actually normal infant behaviour. Especially in relation to newborns.


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## emzky90

I'm registered on your site now =] love it. Someone should post it on tizzies fb page! I cant now as she's blocked me from posting.


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## GeorgeyGal

wow this is on par with that evil so called christian couple who advocate child abuse also, because thats what it is, v dangerous advice, leaving a baby to potentially choke on their own vomit is neglectful, Im dumbfounded how amazon could sell these books! Why is it legal to advocate child abuse!??!! freedom of speech? well she shouldnt be cashing in thats for sure, just because she has been allowed her book to become published and for sale some people must think it must be okay then.... crazy!! Is there a petition to get her removed from amazon/facebook?


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## EllaAndLyla

Mum2J&Kx2 said:


> May I please add your website link to my website? Also can I promote on my FB page www.naturalgentleparenting.webs.com and www.facebook.com/ngparenting

Yes you can :) at the moment it is only a trail run, to see if it is successful, but i am going to keep adding to it x


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## Lauki

I'm not getting the email conformation mail Ella :(


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## emzky90

https://www.facebook.com/groups/271919739486213/


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## EllaAndLyla

Lauki said:


> I'm not getting the email conformation mail Ella :(

mine took a while, maybe try again, or just wait a little while :) I am updating it more :D im so excited i hope this woman gets sued or locked up x


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## princess_bump

Every time i see something of this woman's 'advice' appear it makes me just so sad and angry! all of it's just awful. the thought of leaving any baby when sick and simply taking away the towels is just horrid :( i wouldn't let my 3 year old like this! EVER!! if she's sick, she gets comforted!! maddi always slept through from 4-6 weeks, but because she wanted to. 
she was fed on demand and always cuddled it out and we still are! if she's upset in the night she no's mummy or daddy - normally both - are into her straight away, she loves her bed because she's contented to no if she needs us we are there. and if did suddenly not sleep, then she'd be cuddled and made comfortable until she was ready.

this woman is sooooo dangerous! i cannot believe people pay for her advice! what a dreadful way to make money :(


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## deafgal

flubdub said:


> ^ This so called "advice" from Tizzie Hall, writer of "Save Our Sleep".
> 
> Covering babies in 12+ blankets to keep them so warm that they stay asleep, and saying that babies are "sick just to get attention". :sick:
> Have mentioned it in the thread also, but on FB, someone asked her what it meant when the babies head was sweating, and she said it was because he had lots of hair (nothing to do with the 12 blankets then!!)
> 
> What do we think of this?
> 
> 
> 
> I often come across a baby who has learnt to vomit at bedtime during failed attempts at controlled crying. If you have one of these babies you will need to teach your child that vomiting will not get your attention or buy any extra time. This is hard, but it has to be done to stop the vomiting. The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Layer the towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her to the other end. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do all this and be calm and confident through out, so you can fool your baby into thinking you don't care about vomit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q ~ 'I've recently started my 7 month old on s.o.s routine. Day 4 and our nights are getting so much better. Before starting bub was waking every 2 hours sometimes less. My partner and I were exhausted. The first night he slept for 4 hours before needing to be resettled, second night was 7 hours and last night was 9.5 hours. Praying tonight is 12. Two little issues, first my boobs are killing me in the mornings now- I'm so engorged. And the second issue is that i think he is getting cold at night. I sleep him ina long sleeve onesie, a sleeping bag and a cellular blanket but he manages to wriggle out from under the blanket and when i go in to check on him he is sleeping on top of the blanket, and he is cold to touch.'
> 
> 
> A ~ Do you have the bedding guide from the SOS website? It shows you what to dress bubs in for temps in various states. Best $9 you'll ever spend! Need to make sure everything is 100% cotton (incl. mattress protector) otherwise bubs will sweat. Most of us use many more blankets than the guide, every bubs is different eg. I'm in Sydney and in a room of 24.2C my 6m has 12 blankets on + the clothing, bag and wrap mentioned in the guide.Click to expand...Click to expand...

sweating cause dehydration and that means diarrhea and vomiting.


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## aliss

Mum2J&Kx2 said:


> May I please add your website link to my website? Also can I promote on my FB page www.naturalgentleparenting.webs.com and www.facebook.com/ngparenting

I liked u! :) :flower:


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## msfoxymax

EllaAndLyla said:


> I am going to make one, tizzie won't know what hit her!

Go for it if you need any help give me a shout cos i'm soooooooooooo close to beg borrow or stealing a ticket to bloody australia to punch her at one of her shows!!!


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## emzky90

here's the link for the petition https://www.facebook.com/groups/271919739486213/?notif_t=group_r2j


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## msfoxymax

EllaAndLyla said:


> Lauki said:
> 
> 
> I'm not getting the email conformation mail Ella :(
> 
> mine took a while, maybe try again, or just wait a little while :) I am updating it more :D im so excited i hope this woman gets sued or locked up xClick to expand...

I've joined your website and also the facebook page xxx


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## Babushka99

:nope: The vomiting thing is the worst for me. Would anyone seriously do that to their child? That is actually abuse.


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## Eve

Thanks Aliss! Welcome! x


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## Babushka99

O M G there is a tizzie hall internet forum........


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## hanelei

Wow, she has some cheek calling herself a "baby whisperer" when she advocates leaving a baby to cry even if it's vomited from crying so much already- how is that "baby whispering"? And foremilk is "bad for babies"? WTF?
:growlmad:


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## cissyhope

This is awful! Who is this wicked women and how come some of you have her on face book? haven't read all the pages so sorry for my ignorance.Has she a book out too? :wacko:


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## Wobbles

Thread has been used to self promote, therefore closed :)


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