# Did you know midwives aren't nurse midwives?



## smeather7

Apparently I am an idiot and did not know this. I have been wanting a birthing center birth, but just found out all the "midwives" at the center have never actually gone to school besides a few training classes. Reading their profiles I would never guess this. I didn't even know there were different degrees of midwives. Someone else had to tell me. I feel like I have been lied to by the natural birthing world. I rather have a hospital birth and pay a doula to come instead. Totally bummed.


----------



## MindUtopia

I'm guessing you must in in the U.S. Here in the UK, our midwives all have nursing (clinical) training as part of their degree and it's a 3 year programme, though some also enter midwifery after being nurses, so they have both a nursing degree and a midwifery degree. In the U.S., most midwives (certainly all those that practice in hospitals or at hospital affiliated birthing centers) are nurse-midwives, meaning they have clinical training similar to a nurse with further midwifery training. They would be equivalent in training to our midwives here in the UK. There are also other types of midwives, including certified professional midwives and a lesser number of direct entry midwives, though I think most of the non-nurse midwives are now CPMs. They don't have nursing training and generally only work for non-hospital birth centers or just with private clients for home births. You tend to see them more in very remote areas or working with clients of certain religious communities (the Amish, for instance) who don't tend to use traditional medical services. Some people are perfectly happy with a CPM or DEM as they often have way more experience and have often been practicing longer than some CNMs, but some people want the clinical training of a CNM. It's just sorta what floats your boat (personally I'd prefer a nurse midwife and that's what I had for my home birth, but if that wasn't an option, a CPM or DEM with plenty of experience and who I trusted to know when to refer me to a higher level of care would still be better for me than being in a hospital). But it's definitely worth asking questions about so that you find someone you're 100% comfortable with. Are there other options in your area? Is there a hospital birth center somewhere? Look for the sorts of places that are reimbursable with your insurance. They will have to be nurse midwives as I don't believe any health insurance will reimburse for care by CPM or DEM as it's considered an out of pocket expense.


----------



## 2Pups4Kids

Yeah I'm curious about where you're from considering here in Canada, all midwives have to go through nursing school including 2 years of university on top of all their placement training and such.


----------



## Feronia

2Pups4Kids said:


> Yeah I'm curious about where you're from considering here in Canada, all midwives have to go through nursing school including 2 years of university on top of all their placement training and such.

No, in Canada, all midwives go through a 4-year midwifery university program -- not nursing school. It's very rigorous though, and most have prior degrees. It's very hard to get into midwifery school without a prior degree.

smeather7, what kind of midwives are they? If you are just hearing this information from someone else, perhaps you should meet with the midwives themselves to discuss their education and experience. There's a lot of bias against midwives in the States so be careful where you get your information.

Most CPM programs are 3 years, and I'm guessing the midwives you are talking about are CPMs because I haven't heard of direct-entry midwives running birth centres. CPMs are trained very well, and both CNMs and CPMs have to do a certain number of births and pass nationally-mandated exams before registering and being allowed to practice. In fact, a recent study came out that looked at 17,000 home births with CPMs and found them as safe as hospital births with far fewer interventions.


----------



## daddiesgift

Also curious to where you are? In America there is two midwives- CNM certified nurse midwives, nurses that then went to midwifery school. These usually work in doctors offices/ birthing centers and insurance will pay for use of them. Cpm certified professional midwife. They did not become a nurse first and only did midwifery school. Most often they are the ones doing home births and birth centers only. I've never heard of only doing a few classes? Both midwives have to complete a certain amount of training and births to become licensed midwives which majority of states won't let a midwife practice without being licensed or registered. So if there is a whole birth center of midwives they are legit or they'd be shut down immediately. You can't just do a few online classes, call yourself a midwife and open a birth center. 

The birth center I go to is all CNM- certified nurse midwives. My insurance will cover them.


----------



## smeather7

2Pups4Kids said:


> Yeah I'm curious about where you're from considering here in Canada, all midwives have to go through nursing school including 2 years of university on top of all their placement training and such.

I am from the US and apparently it is the only country in the entire world that has "midwives" without degrees. Our Nurse Midwives go to school for 6 years, but they only work in doctor offices and deliver in hospitals(very rare if they don't). 

Certified nurse midwives can become one without any college and directly after high school. I just don't know if I am comfortable going to someone who hasn't firsthand experienced medical emergencies in a hospital setting. If that makes sense?

I really wish our Nurse Midwives were more into the "home birthing" scene. 

I only live an hour from Canada though!


----------



## smeather7

smeather7 said:


> 2Pups4Kids said:
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm curious about where you're from considering here in Canada, all midwives have to go through nursing school including 2 years of university on top of all their placement training and such.
> 
> I am from the US and apparently it is the only country in the entire world that has "midwives" without degrees. Our Nurse Midwives go to school for 6 years, but they only work in doctor offices and deliver in hospitals(very rare if they don't).
> 
> Certified nurse midwives can become one without any college and directly after high school. I just don't know if I am comfortable going to someone who hasn't firsthand experienced medical emergencies in a hospital setting. If that makes sense?
> 
> I really wish our Nurse Midwives were more into the "home birthing" scene.
> 
> I only live an hour from Canada though!Click to expand...

I talked to my friend who went there and she loved her experience. It is a family-owned birthing center; a mom and her 3 daughters. None of them have been to "college" but they did the training. Which I believe is 100 births plus classes and certification(I am positive the mom has birthed well over 100 herself). I love the idea of it, but it still makes me a little nervous.


----------



## Feronia

I'm not sure why you are putting midwives in quotation marks, but they are still indeed midwives. CNMs have at least a master's degree and then additional training as a midwife, and a Certified Professional Midwife (CPM) has met the standards for certification set by the North American Registry of Midwives. Most CPM programs are 3-4 years and midwives end up with a Bachelor of Science of Midwifery. They've attended 100s of births and passed a rigorous exam -- that's a lot more than just a few training courses. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but again, if I were you, I would talk to the midwives themselves and not rely on hearsay.


----------



## daddiesgift

^ exactly this


----------



## smeather7

You're totally right. And I messed up on what I was writing before. I know CNM have masters and additionally training; I just wish they worked in birthing centers and did home births. Also not all CPM have tons of education; I know some do, but some don't. 

Anyways, after talking to the midwives, I wasn't impressed at all. It was a mom and her three daughters. The mom seemed totally experienced, but the other midwives made me uncomfortable; one was only 18 and fresh out of high school. So I found a different birthing center that is just a little further, and I LOVE IT! There are several midwives and one even went to Africa for a year doing nothing but delivering babies. It just felt different and more professional.


----------



## smeather7

You're totally right. And I messed up on what I was writing before. I know CNM have masters and additionally training; I just wish they worked in birthing centers and did home births. Also not all CPM have tons of education; I know some do, but some don't. 

Anyways, after talking to the midwives, I wasn't impressed at all. It was a mom and her three daughters. The mom seemed totally experienced, but the other midwives made me uncomfortable; one was only 18 and fresh out of high school. So I found a different birthing center that is just a little further, and I LOVE IT! There are several midwives and one even went to Africa for a year doing nothing but delivering babies. It just felt different and more professional.


----------



## MindUtopia

smeather7 said:


> You're totally right. And I messed up on what I was writing before. I know CNM have masters and additionally training; I just wish they worked in birthing centers and did home births. Also not all CPM have tons of education; I know some do, but some don't.
> 
> Anyways, after talking to the midwives, I wasn't impressed at all. It was a mom and her three daughters. The mom seemed totally experienced, but the other midwives made me uncomfortable; one was only 18 and fresh out of high school. So I found a different birthing center that is just a little further, and I LOVE IT! There are several midwives and one even went to Africa for a year doing nothing but delivering babies. It just felt different and more professional.

Excellent! A lot of it really is just based on your gut instinct and it sounds like your gut was telling you this wasn't the right place for you, regardless of their training. Personally, I don't think anyone who is 18 could possibly have had the time to receive the right sort of training to be practicing alone as a midwife (in training, yes, but not working as a fully fledged midwife), so sounds like you made the right decision. It really is so much just about listening to your own intuition and finding the person who makes you feel safe and comfortable and sounds like you've done that.


----------



## BunnyN

For me half the purpose of a birth out of hospital is to get away from the very medicalized intervention happy training staff have been given there so I can see some advantages of having a MW that was not trained as a nurse first. It is hard for someone who has been taught that way to un-learn it. Of course training and experience are still important but there is more than one way of being trained. In some cases real life experience and specific training may be far more useful than hospital training as a nurse because you are not in a hospital and can always be transferred if that is what is needed. Plus nurses learn a lot of things about changing bandages, fitting catheters, looking after old people etc which is fairly useless to be a HB midwife for example.

Glad you found MW's that you like. I know what you mean about not feeling comfortable with a MW. We spoke to one I didn't feel comfortable with before we found one I loved.


----------



## daddiesgift

^ I also completely agree with this!!


----------

