# Is Gas and air and TENS machine still considered natural birth in your opinion?



## youngwife20

Hey, this is my first baby and I am hoping for a natural birth , I thought natural birth was including birthing pool gas and air and tens, but i see others think its purely just no gas and air etc. so i would just like opinions :) Thanks


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## lesbianlove

i consider it a natural birth as the entinox is in ur system seconds, its not like pethidine where it affects you and your baby for hours and if taken too soon before birth can make baby too sleepy to breathe properly, but yes a natural birth where u have laboured of your own accord had no interventions and minimal pain relief is what i consider a natural birth


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## Mervs Mum

People have different definitions for 'natural birth' but really its irrelevant. Call it what you like and use what ever measures you like. Our births don't define us. :)


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## madasa

I think "natural birth" is a pretty meaningless phrase; it has as many definitions as there are people to define it. If it's a birth YOU are happy with, that's what is important IMO :D


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## chysantheMUM

I think I agree that 'natural birth' is a meaningless phrase and that there is no need to define the birth as being either natural or unnatural. However, I don't consider G&A or Tens machines to be natural. The ingestion of gas and the application of electrical impulses are not things that happen naturally to your body, they are interventions that you are inflicting (perhaps not the best word) on your body or at least thats the way I view it, I know not everyone agrees.


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## BetsyRN

I consider a natural birth to be one without drugs or medical devices. So, using gas & air or the TENS machine is not a natural birth. Natural would be breathing, using the tub/counter-pressure/birthing ball, or having back rubs. Sorry, just my opinion.


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## youngwife20

Thank you for your opinion ladies, all valid points.

i agree your labour is whatever and however u want it to be. i would love to have a naturual birth experiance. 

betsy would you say waterbirth is still not natural?


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## special_kala

To me if your baby comes out ofyour foof its a natural birth


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## BetsyRN

I think that waterbirth can be part of a natural birth process. I guess I just think if medications are involved, its not natural.


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## Fuchsia1412

special_kala, I love your opinion, it made me laugh a lot...! As for my opinion..Yes I would say that sounded like a lovely natural birth, please don't get hung up on v.pedantic definitions, by the vast majority's opinion(s) if you laboured only using TENS and entonox you would have done beautifully! I'd take that lovely entonox a million times over! I had pethidine with my first, but knew I definitely did not want an epidural (and anyway it was a birth centre so they weren't offered) this one hopefully will be a home birth using entonox, movement, maybe TENS and water...I think if you want to give yourself a rough overview of what most consider natural birth, it would probably be (give or take) something along the lines of...a birth which doesn't include things that lingeringly affect you, the baby, or your ability to feel your contractions and push when it becomes an involuntary urge. Although by that token having pethidine wouldn't have affected my own view of my birth, as I had the injection a long long time before pushing, and baby was not affected (not drowsy, took to breast instantly) I loved my birth, I can only wish my 2nd will be as positive.


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## Ju_bubbs

I personally class a natural birth as a birth with NO pain relief at all.. I used gas and air on my first 2, and never considered them the kind of 'natural birth' that my last 2 were, simply because with the gas and air I felt completely out of it on drugs, almost like I had been drinking alcohol for a week.. which to me, isn't a natural feeling :haha:

I have however seen many, many women describe their labours as natural, while using gas and air/tens etc.. there are no rules when it comes to labour, so just use what you feel you need!


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## ljo1984

i agree with special kayla, if you push it out, its natural!! imogen was forceps so thats definatly not natural to me! i want to use G&A if i need it and i'll presonally still class my birth as natural, but thats my opinion.


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## nov_mum

Can I ask why TENs wouldn't be classed as natural for some? It's not something that enters your system. Just curious.


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## chysantheMUM

I've never used a tens machine, so I could be wrong but my understanding of it is that its a manmade device which sends electrical impulses into the body. Sounds very unnatural to me, i.e. not as nature intended, surely that is the true definition of natural. Just to make it clear, I am not judging anybodys birthing choices, I had pethidine at my last birth and I am keeping an open mind with this birth and will do what feels right at the time but unless I do it without any kind of drug or intervention I will not consider it a natural birth. Perhaps some of you do feel I'm being pedantic but if you were to stick to the true definition of natural then G&A would actually be more natural than a tens machine.


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## Ju_bubbs

nov_mum said:


> Can I ask why TENs wouldn't be classed as natural for some? It's not something that enters your system. Just curious.




chysantheMUM said:


> I've never used a tens machine, so I could be wrong but my understanding of it is that its a manmade device which sends electrical impulses into the body. Sounds very unnatural to me, i.e. not as nature intended, surely that is the true definition of natural. Just to make it clear, I am not judging anybodys birthing choices, I had pethidine at my last birth and I am keeping an open mind with this birth and will do what feels right at the time but unless I do it without any kind of drug or intervention I will not consider it a natural birth. Perhaps some of you do feel I'm being pedantic but if you were to stick to the true definition of natural then G&A would actually be more natural than a tens machine.

What the above poster said is pretty much my view on tens also :)


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## Mervs Mum

I guess the same could be said for aromatherapy or homeopathy too then....

I think its a case of, you say potato.....


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## Ju_bubbs

I have no idea what homeopathy is :haha: But with you 100% on the potato thing!

If i'm perfectly honest, I dont really even class my 3rd labour as completely natural, even tho I didn't use anything, no G&A, no tens, no paracetemol, no water, no nothing... but i was in hospital, and being in that environment just didn't 'feel' natural to me iykwim!? I'm not judging anyone elses ideas of a ntural labour, just giving opinions on my own labour.. if someone else wants to use G&A, tens, whatever.. and class it as natural, I'm not gunna jump on somekind of highhorse and tell them they're not allowed to say they had a natural labour!! At the end of the day, if YOU feel your labour was natural, then it was.. no matter what anyone else thinks!


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## sugarcube84

well i used a tens machine up to 7cm and then gas and air until i pushed and up until reading this i would have said i had a natural birth.

I also used massage and labour oil (aromatherapy) so now im feeling like i had loads of pain relief!!

I think its open to interpretation from no pain relief at all, in whatever form, from water to gas and air or to a labour using only temporary none invasive forms of pain relief. I think it depends on the person and you need to think about what you would class as a natural birth whether you dont want to use anything or would be happy to use something.

I am still going to say i had a natural labour, as soon as i breathed out the last puff of gas and air and turned the tens machine off, my pain relief was gone, i had no lingering effects and was able to enjoy my labour, birth and new baby (and remember it) with a clear mind not made fuzzy with pain relief.


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## lesleyann

It totally depends on each persons own feelings, With my son I had a whole 2 puffs of gas and air and hated it so did not use it again Id say I had a natural labour and birth.. But then again I got my waters broken for me as they would not break even at 10cm and had been for 30ish mins lol


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## madasa

Ha, or to look at it another way, since mankind is a product of nature, then ANYTHING we do to help facillitate birth or increase comfort or what have you... well it must be natural. After all, our big brains are "natural", no? :haha:


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## Fuchsia1412

ChrysantheMUM, it stimulates the nerves that relate to pain pathways/provide pain relief, the impulses alone aren't the pain relief. So....that would also mean that massaging your pulse points (if you believe that certain points relate to areas of the body etcetc) during labour wouldn't be natural, as they are not going to naturally stimulate themselves without touch...? What about third stage then,girls who feel that TENS machines wouldn't constitute natural labour..? I assume it must follow that you only believe in the cord pulsating and not cutting the umbilical cord until it naturally dries up and separates from both placenta and baby? (Lotus birth) Because obviously...getting a pair of scissors out brings a tool in to the process, one that would eventually happen by itself. That wasn't meant to be sarcastic, by the way, it's an actual question. What


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## Ju_bubbs

Fuchsia1412 said:


> ChrysantheMUM, it stimulates the nerves that relate to pain pathways/provide pain relief, the impulses alone aren't the pain relief. So....that would also mean that massaging your pulse points (if you believe that certain points relate to areas of the body etcetc) during labour wouldn't be natural, as they are not going to naturally stimulate themselves without touch...? What about third stage then,girls who feel that TENS machines wouldn't constitute natural labour..? I assume it must follow that you only believe in the cord pulsating and not cutting the umbilical cord until it naturally dries up and separates from both placenta and baby? (Lotus birth) Because obviously...getting a pair of scissors out brings a tool in to the process, one that would eventually happen by itself. That wasn't meant to be sarcastic, by the way, it's an actual question. What

Very good point! One that I can't answer lol. But while I dont do the whole natural thing because I'm against anything 'un-natural', I only found out by accident that I much prefer to labour without G&A/TENs

I used G&A and TENs on my first labour, felt awful all the way through, like really drugged/drunk, I just assumed this was what labour was meant to make you feel like as the midwives kept telling me that the G&A wouldn't have that effect, and so I again used the G&A with my 2nd labour with the same effects. I can barely remember anything about those births!

I had planned to use the G&A again for my 3rd labour, the only reason I didn't is because i woke up contracting, got straight in the car, and by the time I got to hospital, LO was crowning.. 1 push and he was out. It wasn't till then that I realised it was the G&A making me feel so 'out of it'.. which is the reason that I now refuse to use it, and didn't on my 4th out of choice,a nd wont on my 5th!

As for the TENs, half way through my first labour, the pads came unstuck from all the sweat :haha: and I didn't even realise, so I figured there was no point using it again if it didn't do enough for me to even notice it wasn't there!

So, I don't know about the ladies who feel strongly about G&A not being natural etc, but to me, tahts not the case, so I'm not bothered about cord cutting etc.. I even still have the injection after birth to help expel the placenta quicker, which again, isn't natural at all in my eyes.. but I'm not bothered about that bit, coz I've already got my baby by then! lol.

I should imagine that if my experience with the G&A was like ive seen a lot of ladies descibe, ie.. not feeling drugged and out of it.. I'd probably have no problem using it and classing it as a natural labour still :)


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## lozzy21

I think people are confusing pain relief and pain medication. If you see natural birth as something with out pain relief you wont go on your hands and knees because you find it more comfortable or walk or sway your hips or even change your breathing because it hurts less.

Wanting to stop something from hurting as much is part of being human, we hurt our foot we walk with a limp. What can be more natural than that?

A tens machine works by helping your body release its natural endorphin's. So for me yes it is natural.


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## aliss

If not then the vast vast majority of women have 'unnatural' births, even those women 1000 miles away from the nearest hospital living in mud huts. Yes, their forms of pain relief are not the same - they use smokes, herbs, ropes, teeth guards, massage, heat, pulling/yanking other women, even alcohol to bear the pain. There are very, very few women on this planet who do not use pain relief at all, not even in 3rd world countries. 

If a woman in a mud hut of the Mongolian plains delivers her baby through her vagina on her own accord after smoking herbs and yanking on a rope, is it natural? I don't see how it is not. I don't see how that is any different than a woman using G&A.


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## clarsair

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought g&a wasn't technically pain relief/medication as it's not an analgesic, it just makes you feel more relaxed?


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## madasa

If you class a "natural" birth as one with no pain relief, then virtually NO birth is natural. If you class a "natural" birth as one with no intervention, then those are pretty darn rare as well (although that depends how you define "intervention").

I saw one post recently from someone who "used only cocodomol (sp?) and really enjoyed giving birth without drugs...." Eh? Cocodomol is not a drug now? Whatevs. Define your birth however you want, if natural is important to you and you want to describe it that way, great! I just think it's bloody confusing.... And, IDK, kinda odd. When did "natural" become the holy grail of birth, and why?

Birth is like sex. In lots of ways. Do you have "natural sex", and is it that much "better" to have "natural" sex than "unnatural"? How do you define "unnatural" anyway? If you have to use some kind of aid or lubricant for intercourse, is that unnatural and therefore not as good? If you do it with an extra person, or with something you bought in Ann Summers or if you film it.... Is THAT unnatural? Not as good? Sounds silly, right? ;)


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## lynnikins

well my view on it is that Pain Relief and Pain Medication is 2 different things entirely

G&A is a distraction not a drug in my mind and although i plan to do without this time if i want it in the moment i'll use it, i would say its pain relief
TENS is a way of stimulating nerves the same as massage, heat, accupressure which makes it acceptable to use as pain relief in my opinion, my DH isnt great with massage and normally i dislike being touched in labour so TENS allows me to stimulate those nerves without someone else touching me.
Water is pain relief also but a natural form of it and as is movement and many other things we do in labour like swaying our hips , changing posistion etc.


pain medication would be , paracetamol ( though most people will still take 1-2 of these in early labour ) or other medication used for pain. pethidine , epidural etc..

so basicly if i use methods of distraction or otherwise to provide pain relief then yes i'll still consider this labour natural , if i use drugs then i wont.

i think dont get hung up on it if you want to avoid using medication to cope with labour then good on you but dont get yourself worried about it, in all likelyhood i will have taken co-codamol in the hours prior to my labour for my PGP but i wont take any during labour if i can help it for the sake of the baby


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## youngwife20

madasa said:


> If you class a "natural" birth as one with no pain relief, then virtually NO birth is natural. If you class a "natural" birth as one with no intervention, then those are pretty darn rare as well (although that depends how you define "intervention").
> 
> I saw one post recently from someone who "used only cocodomol (sp?) and really enjoyed giving birth without drugs...." Eh? Cocodomol is not a drug now? Whatevs. Define your birth however you want, if natural is important to you and you want to describe it that way, great! I just think it's bloody confusing.... And, IDK, kinda odd. When did "natural" become the holy grail of birth, and why?
> 
> Birth is like sex. In lots of ways. Do you have "natural sex", and is it that much "better" to have "natural" sex than "unnatural"? How do you define "unnatural" anyway? If you have to use some kind of aid or lubricant for intercourse, is that unnatural and therefore not as good? If you do it with an extra person, or with something you bought in Ann Summers or if you film it.... Is THAT unnatural? Not as good? Sounds silly, right? ;)

lol cocodomol i do consider pain releif lol i dont think natural birth is the holy grail of birth. i just think for me i would prefer it to be as natural as possible. mainly so i remember everything and i dread the idea of an epidural.. i was just curious to know others definitions but when it comes down to it. i know that i will be a big wimp but with my mum and hubbby there theyl stop me from ending up having an epi lol hopefuly i settle for gas and air lol


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## madasa

Heck I don't just mean this thread. It just seems to this attitude amongst certainn people and I can't wrap my brain around it. It just seems a strange way to define your desired experience... But this is because I think of birth as being very much like sex, which I'm sure other people also find hard to wrap their brain round!


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## nov_mum

I think of TENs the same way as massage. The electrical pulses are create a response in the body like massage or heat would. I found TENs awesome and I loved the fact there was no ill effects or chemicals that are not naturally occurring in my or my infant's body, left after the labour. I consider it as part of a natural birth because of that definition I guess. I do remember having the pads put on and the it started up and I was thinking 'how on earth would this combat pain?'. I am reading up on hypnobirthing this time around hoping to maximise my own body's resources but will definitely be going for TENs as plan B


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## nov_mum

madasa said:


> If you class a "natural" birth as one with no pain relief, then virtually NO birth is natural. If you class a "natural" birth as one with no intervention, then those are pretty darn rare as well (although that depends how you define "intervention").
> 
> I saw one post recently from someone who "used only cocodomol (sp?) and really enjoyed giving birth without drugs...." Eh? Cocodomol is not a drug now? Whatevs. Define your birth however you want, if natural is important to you and you want to describe it that way, great! I just think it's bloody confusing.... And, IDK, kinda odd. When did "natural" become the holy grail of birth, and why?
> 
> Birth is like sex. In lots of ways. Do you have "natural sex", and is it that much "better" to have "natural" sex than "unnatural"? How do you define "unnatural" anyway? If you have to use some kind of aid or lubricant for intercourse, is that unnatural and therefore not as good? If you do it with an extra person, or with something you bought in Ann Summers or if you film it.... Is THAT unnatural? Not as good? Sounds silly, right? ;)


I think it is interesting to discuss - what is natural and why is natural seen as the holy grail. I guess it depends, for most I know pain free was the holy grail not natural. In fact, my friend who is hoping for a home birth is constantly ridiculed for her choice. I find it odd that she gets so much flack about her choice and is encouraged to fill her body with chemicals, enter a foreign environment of a hospital, give up all control and ability to a Doctor and this is seen as a responsible choice?? 

For me, natural - or as natural as possible, is my holy grail as such as I want the best recovery for me and bubs plus I want to BF. These things are not made impossible by interventions but they can be delayed. Also, I have been induced twice and likely to again due to preeclampsia so I want to maximise bubs and my health by reducing the crap hospitals do to us.


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## FeistyMom

Being in the US I don't know much about TENS but am really intrigued.

I don't usually use the word 'natural' anymore for birth because its so subjective and somewhat controversial. I've taken to describing my wishes as 'unmedicated', which is what my first two were - and not by choice for the first one!

I've found that the number of people who look at me like I'm crazy seems to be going down lately - and that home births, natural births, and unmedicated births seem to be gaining in popularity over the past 5 years.

But other than that, I would still consider TENS use as an unmedicated birth. G&A (which I also have no real knowledge of, other than hearing from others on this message board) seems more like a medication, but I agree with the other posters who said it really boils down to whether you feel like its natural or not.


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## wigglywoo

I think for me personally, I would see a birth with gas and air to be a birth with drugs and a birth with TENS/water/aromatherapy etc as natural. 

I agree that the definition of 'natural' birth is open to interpretation. At the end of the day, birth is such a personal thing and no-one can define another person's birth for them as we all hold different views on what constitutes natural.


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## NaturalMomma

No, but who cares what I think :thumbup: It only matters if it is or isn't to you.


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## Ju_bubbs

Just a side note, for those who dont feel that G&A isn't a drug... I have a 'friend' who makes a fortune throwing 'nitrous parties' in a big warehouse in london. It's basically a load of druggies who meet up, pay to get into this party, listen to music and suck away on medical grade nitrous oxide AKA entonox AKA G&A all night, for recreational purposes!

Theres a huge trade for it in the illegal drug market!


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## youngwife20

I do think G and Air is a drug.. the question wasnt wheather it was a drug or not. is wheather you would still consider it natural. Like the TENS isnt "natural" because of what it does. but i still consider it part of a natural labour. and G and air though a drug, i think its may still me natural only for the fact , it doesnt stay in your system or cause any harm to baby or make baby sleepy etc :)


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## 9babiesgone

I am not going to argue about tens and air, bc over here in the usa, we dont have it. but to me natural is what someone wants to think it is. I just dont care enough to make a term for it, this being natural and this not. etc.

for me my 2nd birth was natural, or so my opinion on my own birth and mine alone. bc I didnt have pain killers. but it wasnt as natural as I would have wanted. the next one will be water birth. 
but to me natural is relative to who is defining it. we all have our own definitions none are better than others.


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## Ju_bubbs

9babiesgone said:


> I* am not going to argue about tens and air, bc over here in the usa, we dont have it*. but to me natural is what someone wants to think it is. I just dont care enough to make a term for it, this being natural and this not. etc.
> 
> for me my 2nd birth was natural, or so my opinion on my own birth and mine alone. bc I didnt have pain killers. but it wasnt as natural as I would have wanted. the next one will be water birth.
> but to me natural is relative to who is defining it. we all have our own definitions none are better than others.

So THIS explains why pretty much everyone on US birth shows on TV have epi's!!! I've often wondered why the US ladies seem to opt for epis so often... Had no idea you didn't have G&A and such over there!


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## 9babiesgone

nope we dont have that, I got one done with my first (epi) and I regreted it bc I couldnt walk for 24 hours after giving birth. it was awful. they gave me too much. I made a big change in 3 years since she was born adn more of a natural oriented person.


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## KerryGold

I used both. I deluvered in the pool and had a natural 3rd stage but have never considered I had a 100% natural birth.

I don't care though because I had 100% the birth I wanted.

xXx


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## Manfalou

I had 3 hours of gas and air whilst in the birthing pool (which is where I gave birth) and tell people I had a natural birth... I did try the tens but it didn't do anything for me... I wouldn't worry too much, your body will know what you need when the time comes x


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## bubbles123

I would see a birth with G and A and/or TENS as natural. They take gas and air off you at the end anyways when you push and they are not absorbed by the body, so you do that without pain relief and can feel everything. Also, both leave your body within seconds if you wish to stop using them rather than anesthetic drugs, which can take a long time to wear off.


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## youngwife20

Thank you :)


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## moomin_troll

i used just a tens machine and gave birth in water with my second and it sure felt natural to me lol


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