# Brittle bones in Twins?



## Dancingkaty1

Hi All

Does anyone have any experience with brittle bones in Twins? Especially where one twin is larger than the other? :cry:

Thanks


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## lizziedripping

I haven't hun, but I'm guessing you may be experiencing this with one of yours? Can I help at all? xxx


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## Dancingkaty1

my girl twin has a fracture in her right arm....anyone that knows me & my dh will realise 200% that it wasnt us harming her....but we have been accused of it :( all 3 of my children were going to be taken away & placed in foster care if i didnt sign them over to family, which was obviously what we did. we are now facing legal preceedings & going to court...my solicitor mentioned a nick bishop in sheffield, the worlds leading bone specialist, he can tell if there is something genetically wrong with the bones, such as brittle bones ....he said that he has seen many cases where twins were conceived on clomid ( like us) & 1 of the twins seems to be much smaller than the other ( my girl twin is 2lb lighter than the boy, completely different, & soo dainty) & he said that in alot of the cases he has tested the smaller twin & has found brittle bones. I know my neice was confirmed with brittle bones as she kept having frequent & re occuring fractures in the same place. Its just horrific what we are all going through, for your baby daughter to have a fracture is bad enough, but to be accused of purposely doing it is just the worst thing in the entire world. I feel like i cant carry on but i have to....i fought sooo hard to get these twins & i wont lose them or our gorgeous 5 yr old dd. xx


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## Laura2919

Oh :hugs: you must be really going through it. Im sorry this is happening to you. 
I dont have any experience but if you could do anything to prove your innocence then I would try. Have you been to your doctor? maybe they could do tests?


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## Dancingkaty1

we are getting referred by our dr to go & see the specialist. x


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## Laura2919

Do you know how long it will take? Like test results. I couldnt imagine having to deal with what you must be. Are you allowed to see them under supervision or on your own? It must be hard when you and your partner know you didnt do anything wrong. 

Chloe bit Jaycee in the bath and I had to take Jaycee to the doctors cos she was poorly and they had to note it down. It was 3cm long because she bit her and pulled with her teeth. Its worrying because unless you have an explanation then they think your guilty of it. 

Did you watch tonight a while back with the couple who had the same sort of thing your going through? They eventually got their son back. I think the outcome was that he broke his bone from putting it through his cot and getting stuck. I will see if I can find you a link..


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## Laura2919

Sorry it was Panorama... 
Here is a link maybe if you type their names in you can get more information hun

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/panorama/2010/08/please_dont_take_our_child.html


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## lizziedripping

OMG DK, that is terrible - I am shocked and horrified for you all!!!!! I cannot imagine a worse situation hun. In this "suspicious" age we live in, being wrongly accused is probably alarmingly common. I know children have to be protected, but I worry that as a society things have moved too far in the other direction.

I do know a lady who had her baby son dislocate his shoulder several times as a baby, even just when rolling over. That was 17yrs ago, and because the medical profession weren't so "jumpy" then as they are now, she was asked a couple of questions about how it happened and that was it! As it turns out, he had a shoulder joint prone to dislocation, which he grew out of. I suspect that now she too would be under suspicion - shocking.

All I can do is offer my support and best wishes hun, and the hope that you get the outcome you deserve. I sincerely hope you are reunited with your beautiful family as soon as possible xxx


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## mummy3

I don't have twins but I do have a son who is seeing a geneticist. He broke his leg 18m ago just waling down the street, all I can suggest is following up with the specialist and try not to panic:hugs: They will be able to get to the bottom of it and trust me I know how horrible it is to feel judged but it will pass.

My son has a lot of other problems too, he has not grown at all in the last year and has kidney reflux. :hugs:


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## bek74

How horrible hun, I am so sorry your going through this and that your kids are going through this.
When my 2nd son was in hospital as a baby (was in for 3mths nearly) there was a lady that I became friends with. Any how she had a 2yr old daughter and a 3mth old baby boy, the baby boy was the one admitted into hospital, he had RSV (like my son) and they ended up taking him down for xrays to see his chest and lungs.
On the xray it showed a small fracture on one of his ribs, and that it had already healed. They asked her about it and she said " she knew nothing about it" and was horrified at the thought of it.
Well then social workers got involved and they had to interview her and they she need a witness and asked me so I went along (her hubby was away in the Army).
They accused her of abusing her baby boy, she was in tears, she asked was it possible to happen during birth? or once her 2yr old bent down to kiss him and she lost her footing and put her arm out to stop herself and landed on him?
they said there is no way it could break like that because of those things that she had or someone has abused him OMG OMG.
Her daughter had to be given to a family member so her mother came and got her and then had to contact her husband and he came home the next day and she wasn't allowed to be in the room with her baby unsupervised. It was a nightmare for them, she was in tears all the time, she was a mess, she couldn't believe that her son was admitted with RSV and now they have accused her of this.

Skip forward about 4wks and they did a heap more xrays on the babies body, ran tests, interviewed all her family, all of his family and all their friends and only after that was she allowed her daughter back and to be able to hold her son again without someone watching her.

She said to me " how am i going to ever let my kids be kids?, I will be worried that any bump or bruise or broken arm etc would result in being accused of abuse again and possibly lossing them.

My heart went out to her, my own son had to get a xray 2 days after all this happened I was so scared that what if they found something on my boy, it would be a parents worst nightmare, just watching what this mother went through brought me to tears I couldn't imagine it actually happening to me.

Your a strong person and your doing all you can, hang in there hun :hugs::hugs:


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## Mrs R

Holy crap dancingkatie, that's a bit extreme! I'm a social worker and have never come across a case where somebody's children had to be placed with family due to a broken bone (unless it was non-accidental). 

I've read your posts about your children and know you love them so I cannot imagine how you are feeling.

Obviously we all understand why social workers are cautious when it comes to children's safety but if it was accidental (as in not inflicted) and there have been no other incidences or involvement with children's services, surely it's gone a bit too far?? Have the hospital doc said it was non-accidental? 

This sounds very unusual to me.

Please feel free to PM me if I can offer any support x


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## Dancingkaty1

the bone dr who examined the x ray said it is unlikely to be accidental.....in other words they are accusing us of purposely doing this to our daughter!!! we have no explanation as to how it happened so 'for the best of the children' they took our children away from us!! my daughter had to do an interview last fri, she admitted to picking the twins up when myself or dh wasnt looking, when asked would she tell mummy or daddy if she dropped the twins, her reply was no. I just dont know where we go from here.....at the moment we are getting 3 hrs supervised visits 3 times a week....its just not enough....my 5 yr old dd has become so unsettled & teary & keeps asking if mummy loves her, bless her she prob is so confused. she wrote letters saying 'when can i come home & i hope you love me mummy' just breaks my heart!! my twins are growing sooo quickly, im missing out on sooo much....we tried for sooo long to have these babies, how could anyone think we purposely did this to our baby girl? we have had 2 visits so far & both social workers that supervised said how ridiculous it all is & we deserve to be all together at home. There have been no other incidences or involvement with childrens services, all 3 children have had medicals, other than this arm there is nothing at all!!


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## Aunty E

Hope you're holding up ok and this is getting resolved. Sounds like a dreadful, horrible ordeal for you and your LOs. Unlikely to be accidental is a bit wooly frankly, and I wouldn't consider it enough to remove children from their parents.


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## Dancingkaty1

We had our weekly meeting with our social worker yesterday, she has agreed the children are better off in their own home so they are moving back Saturday. My mother in law lives over the road from us so she has agreed to move into our house, take time off from work & be the children's carer, we just need to sign the paper work saying we consent to her doing this. We will then move into her house as we are still unable to be around the children when not supervised by a social worker or contact person :( 

The social worker also said we have our 1st court hearing 2moro morning, am so scared what the outcome will be....

xx


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## Laura2919

Oh hun.. :hugs: 
I do hope something changes soon for you...


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## Dancingkaty1

social workers have now changed their minds...the children are not allowed home 2moro :( what the hell am i going to tell my 5 yr old daughter??? she was soooo excited to come home, even if mummy & daddy were not gonna be there as nanny was gonna look after her. Just for her to be in her own house, own bed with own toys.... Apparently nanny has to be assessed which takes 2 weeks!!! they didnt mention any assessments yesterday!!! x


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## Laura2919

Oh Hun... :hugs: Lets hope they are allowed home soon..


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## lizziedripping

I am finding all this so distressing in your behalf DK - I am a little bit in shock tbh :nope::cry:


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## chetnaz

Oh hun, I'm so sorry you are going through this, I cannot even imagine how difficult it must be for you. My thoughts are with you and I hope you have your girls home with you very soon. X


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## Aunty E

This is just awful, I can't believe they're messing you and your poor LOs around like this. How can this sort of distress possibly be in their best interests? :hug:


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## Laura2919

I keep coming to check back hoping I read something positive... :hugs: 

Do you know what is likely to happen in the coming weeks? Have you been to see anyone regarding this?


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## sophxx

theres a girl on here whos been through this and she has her little girl and it was found they over reacted ill pm her im sure shell help if she can x

ive pmed her xx


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## Amy-Lea

Thanks Soph.

Hey, Dancing Katy, this just made me cry :cry: what you wrote is like what they where saying to me, it was 'unaccidental' or 'intentional' my heart stopped when I heard those words, it seems it must be some kind of text book answer for when they can't solve a problem. I have lost all faith in hospitals, they don't know their arses from their elbows. I'm gunna copy a few posts I made on here to jog my memory incase you want to flick through and have a read (some are short and some long though and I swear in a few :blush: but I just picked out what I thought you could maybe relate to). I don't know how I can make this better other than showing you how bad it got for me and that it was all proved to be wrong and everything was okay in the end :hugs:

Basically previous to these posts, Hallie has a limp for 2 months!! I went and got fobbed off and told to come back if it wasn't better in 2 weeks, so every 2 weeks or sometimes 1 week I would go to the hospital and urge them to see her. She has 5 x rays, 4 bloodtests and an ultrasound previous to these posts.


Spoiler
Well at 9am we go to the hospital with Hallie, we got told the appoinment had been cancelled and changed to Monday (as in the day before) they hadn't informed me of this!

So, Eventually, we find the fracture clinic which we have been referred to apparently which sparked concearn as I hoped to god she hadnt been walking around on a fracture for the last few months. Well the fracture clinic wouldnt take us as the appointment had been cancelled, so had to go back to A&E. As we were checking in a doctor walks past and asks if this is Hallie and if we can come with him and he will sort us out as he has a specialist to see her.

He is checking her out and explained about the lumpy bones on the end of her thighbone and sent us for more Xrays, he said it looks like a fracture but it cant be because it would of heeled by now and that he had to go and speak with a specialist, 30 minutes later he returned with a printed out band for her, bandages, aenisitetic cream and a bone doctor. They numbed Hallie's hands and wrapped bandages around her like little boxing gloves (and they done eeyore too ) Then said that they would be keeping Hallie in for a few days to wait for a scan but int he mean time they want antibiotics in her so will be taking bloods and fitting a thing for a IV so she can get attached to a drip. He said the waiting list for people who come into A&E wfor scans is often months, and this is an emergency so if they admitt her to hospital she will get seen to quicker. They explaining because of the nature of the MRI scan it would be very scary and noisy and she needs to keep still so they will be putting her asleep. So we need to get some bed clothes and day clothes and toiletries for both me and Hallie. I was just standing there like a knob, I had all these questions but couldnt say them aloud. My Mum asked what teh scenarios could be as a result and he mentioned Bone Disease, Lukemia, Osteomilitus...wait did he just say Lukemia that was it, Autopilot began, I was liek a robot, I just walked away from the hospital, I haven't a clue what I was thinking, I just hailed a taxi and went to tesco...........(cut some crap out)

I got back to the hospital and my baby was in her own little room in a ward. We had to go down for bloodtests ..... They let Hallie go as the MRI scanner had no availability until the end of the week, they said if she will be staying in, we mayaswell send her home until the day of the scan rather than her spending time here any longer.

They said to get to the hospital for 8am on Thursday morning, there are NO vacancies for the MRI scanner but they are hoping on a cancellation (who in the right mind would cancel an MRI scan, I dont know) So know I am worried Hallie will hate me because she has to fast tonight, and can only have water from 6am and before that only milk from 2am and no food before that. Thing is we dont know when the scan will be, so she could be starving all day! .....
.


Spoiler
They have took MY daughter out of MY care, I had to sign a contract saying I cant be left alone with her :'(

As some know, my daughter has had a limp for about 3 months now, been told it was a infection in her hip joint, then it wasnt, then they didnt know even after 3 Xrays, sent us home saying it will be okay, I kept going back because it wasnt going, totalling in about 9 more Xrays and an Ultra sound where they found FUCK ALL. Then one day I get a phone call, 'We have found lumps on the back of Hallies thigh bone' right okay so were getting somewhere, she gets admitted to hospital and had to get checked over for cancers and bone diseases, she got put asleep for a MRI scan, which was all clear so she comes out and needs a CT scan, we couldnt keep her still and they said 'well this is our fault as we should of really kept her asleep for an extra 30 mins while we checked the MRI scan and done the CT scan tehre and then. So no, we had to sleep in the hospital again and her get knocked out again the following day resulting in her not being able to be woken up because of basiclly a double dose of anestetci which they apologised for, anyway both results come through next day saying she is cancer free and the problem looks like 'a natural varient in her leg, alot of people have extra bones, or possibly she has had a little hair line fracture that has started to heal in teh wrong way, both will heal over time'

So yesterday we go back , hoping that the worst case scenario would be they would operate, NO, they took me and Darren into a room and told us they cant fathom the injury as it couldnt of happened through a slip or trip and it was 'un accidental and intentional' 

After waitinga round going out of my head I got took through to social workers, my daughetr had to get physical examinations they wanted to do genital too but I objected then she told us she looked absolutley fine and she has no concearns but out of procedure she needs a whole body xray to look for more fractures , as if she will have more, i know for a fact from where the injury is that she banged a toy on it because she always bangs things against her legs.because apperently now its n teh front of her knee when the last thing showed it to be her thigh at the back ????

So then I get told and had to sign a contract I have to be supervised at all times, as does Darren, his Mum, my Nan, her Dad and her nursery are all 'In the Frame' if my mum hadnt of thought on her feet and sais she hasnt been soley responsible for her in a long time due to other commitments Hallie would of been in foster care for 15 days at least 
Its fucking ridiculous, the social worker rang my mum up last night and said


'Claire, wil you reasure amy i see people who intentionally hurt there children and some who get caught up in a system , its safe to say No one in that hospital today has hrt your child(me, mum, nan, darren) and you have been caught in a sytem and i can only apologie for that but my boss is making me investigate there will be a a conference about it and teh police will get in touch tomorrow.

WHAT THE FUCK, I am going out of my mind, have i done anything rong? how can it be so suspisious if until yesterday it was, a naturel varient, or extra bone, at the back now the front every doctor has told us different..

What would you do, do you think i could appeal because ive been told allsorts? What if it isnt a fracture? because apparently yesterday her new xray shown no fracture so they told us it had healed no one knows tehre arse from there elbow!


Spoiler
They are coming to my house on Wednesday to look around, my ex has rang up when I told him, saying I keep him in the dark and havent been telling him anything (i think I may be getting an itemisied phone bill this month to show how many texts and calls have been made the dates i was in hospital with her) also said 'I have concerns over Amy's mum being in charge which iI will tell you on Tuesday' The horrible horrible **** excuse my french, does he not realise, no body is finger pointing him, just becase they are certain me and my mum, nan and darren are 'innocent' doesnt mean he is getting blamed, but as always he is stirring things up and making problems. At the end of the day I should be racing to court right now, he has had access for 3 months, how long has hallie's limp been there, hmm 3 months, he is lucky im giving him the benefit of the doubt because I know the hospital are just covering there backs. 

To think last week, I was panicking and waiting for results of if she had cancer, this time today, i am worried about her being took off me, they have some explaining to do when this is over with.

After Hallie's CT scan the day after her MRI, the anethisist said 'Well Alder Hey havent really excelled them self so I think they owe it to you to process your results by tomorrow' this is because i=the scan should of been done straight after the MRI, however, after the CT scan , we couldnt wake her up, it was supposed to be 4 minute scan and we were still waiting 50 minutes later (more distress for me) as they found it hard waking her up as she had anestetic the day before too!! They are pathetic.


Spoiler
I forgot to mention Hallie went for her Xray of everybone in her body, which upset her so much aswell as me, spine, head the lot, and it was me who has toforce and pin her down, for her hand xray they made me squash a clear perpex/glass sheet over her hand, hallie was distraught as was I, I burst out crying and was telling her if they find any broken bones, It will of been me right there infront of tehre eyes , to which they replied 'Oh no all this gets tested' how can you test how hard each parent has to restrain there child ?

She got sent back in 3 seperate times for head and spine xrays because she moved, so again more distress, the X ray women asked if I was okay and I told her, no I bloody wasnt, all this is going to come back clear and what are we going to get for all this torture? A sorry?? Woppdeyfuckindooo, I had to actually hurt my daughter to comply with there tests. i was so angry.


Spoiler
you know what the bad thing is, if we would of brought her in and said, well she has this limp, I think its because she fell from the topto the bottom of the stairs, this wouldnt be happening, it's coz we have told the truth and havent any idea what has caused it, because she had no bruises, swelling or pain, so how would I know? As far as im concerned she just developed a limp.

I would be a lot more concerned if a couple brought a baby in saying they had fell down the stairs!


Spoiler
Well. 

Here is another spanner in the works, I got a call yesterday, Hallie's Xrays come back all fine except for a bit of extra knobbly bone on her left knee too (what they said her right fracture was a few times) she said, this left knee, though looks like it was possible to be a result of a trip or fall , wheras the left fracture was not. It just doesnt make sense. Surely both knees being injured means she has had a fall. The social worker asked if i could think of a time where Hallie had a little cry where she could of hurt herself, but I really can't, Hallie only crys in tantrum, and I know she is not in pain because it is followed from me saying 'No' or 'Stop' or alternitively she holds her face when she crys by her mouth, calpol and anbesol later and thats over with, merely teething.

now i think back to the conversation though, I think the lady was trying to coax me to 'remember' a injury so Hallie didnt have 2 unexplained injuries. The social worker also said it has been raised that maybe because of my post natal depression and having a crap few days i should go to my GPs but i explained I had been fine for a long time and the last week or so I have just been getting on with things, If they pin ANY of this on me having PND I will fume, thatsnot fair, millions have PND and wouldnt harm there child.
...
Social services are going to my house at 3pm today to look around and dicuss what was said in the meeting with my ex yesterday he apparently ahd concerns i can only imagine what he will say, he hates my guts.

Cant believe i am even in this situation.


Spoiler
WE ARE BACK HOME!!!!!!


The meeting went great, they discovered Hallie has an anatomical variation on each of her knees, which has formed little knobbles of new bone, the right legs one is fractured but has healed, 2nd is still vunerable to breaks. So he any little knock can fracture these little extra bones.

I have one more blood test for her to have to rule out calcium phostate or something. 

I still have the child protection conferance on Thursday in the NSPCC. Hallie's Dad will be there, the social worker had a meeting with him yesterday and he said he has issues to raise that he wanst willing to share with her because she would tell me, so he is going to whop something out in the conference no doubt, if he jepordises Hallie staying in my care I will kill him!

But for now, my Babies home and thats all that matters

So in the end, no apology from any hospitals for not discovering what was wrong for 3 months, but I did get my daughter back. I'm sure you have done nothing to your LO and the case will be the same for you. Hope you can get a little hope from these posts of mine, I don't really know what to say. xxxxx


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## Laura2919

Amy :cry: Im sorry you had to go through that. I look at pics of Hallie and she looks like a happy lovely little girl.. It is true what you wrote in one of your posts about having an explanation thats how so many babies slip through their net because of silly things like that.... 
Im glad it turned out ok for you and I hope it does for Katy too.


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## Amy-Lea

Laura2919 said:


> Amy :cry: Im sorry you had to go through that. I look at pics of Hallie and she looks like a happy lovely little girl.. It is true what you wrote in one of your posts about having an explanation thats how so many babies slip through their net because of silly things like that....
> Im glad it turned out ok for you and I hope it does for Katy too.

Thank you, she is a happy girly..all the time. I love her too bits. That was so hard reading all those old posts back. To the OP I really feel your pain and cannot wait until you have your LO back in your care! If you ever need an ear, PM me at anytime xxx


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## bek74

Amy-Lea I just can't believe what you have been through, my gosh reading your posts bought tears to my eyes.
I am so glad your little girl and back home with you.


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## TwoBumps

Hi Dancing Katy. 

I saw this article in the paper, & thought of you x

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...said-Id-abused-son-broke-leg-faulty-gene.html

I really hope that everything has resolved itself & that you have your babies back at home with you but if not, maybe there is something in the article that might help x


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## Dancingkaty1

hi amy-lea....

im so sorry you too went through what i am going through now. I am glad you are all bk home now where u belong!! 

we are taking the children to sheffield next week to see a bone specialist, a contact supervisor has to come with us as we are still not allowed around the children unsupervised. Its awful wishing my daughter does have some sort of genetic bone disorder but if she hasnt then i really doubt we will ever get our children back. I miss them so much, without them my life is nothing xx


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## Laura2919

Oh Hun, I really hope things start to turn around for you. It must feel like a lifetime.


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## Aunty E

Oh god, I can't believe they're still keeping you away from them :( I really really hope that things turn around after this visit :(


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## ali333

just saw your post and want to offer some help! its posible your child has a bone dissorder called osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bones). there is a really helpfull website called brittle bone society, 2 of my children have brittle bones and we had child welfare on us but thankfuly it was sorted because i manage to prove brittle bones ran in my husbands side of the family, they have had abuse allegations ,court ect on a couple of children in his family about 10 years back, there is also support groups on facebook that have been a lifeline to me,many parents have been trough the same as you. please let me know if you would like the details and i would gladly pass them on and anyone else facing these problems, take care


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## Dancingkaty1

ali333 said:


> just saw your post and want to offer some help! its posible your child has a bone dissorder called osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bones). there is a really helpfull website called brittle bone society, 2 of my children have brittle bones and we had child welfare on us but thankfuly it was sorted because i manage to prove brittle bones ran in my husbands side of the family, they have had abuse allegations ,court ect on a couple of children in his family about 10 years back, there is also support groups on facebook that have been a lifeline to me,many parents have been trough the same as you. please let me know if you would like the details and i would gladly pass them on and anyone else facing these problems, take care

Hi thank u for ur msg....

We went to Sheffield in march and saw prof bishop who is meant to be the best person to spot brittle bones....he saw all 3of my children. He said my dd who is 5 yes has extremely flexible bones, her white of her eyes are slightly tinted blue....both signs of this disease apparently....he checked my baby dd...she has same....he checked small bones in ears....he said although they have a few symptoms he didnt think it was nessasery to do the blood tests to confirm brittle bones...apparently the court didn't order him to do it as it costs £5000!!!! 

So it was kinda a waste of a journey really but luckily we had our causation hearing in April.....the judge found the injury to be accidental and we got our 3children bk that night after court!!! :) it is still in the bk of my mind does she have this brittle bones tho....the only thing I can think is maybe not as wouldn't she have more fractures?? I don't know....we are soo pleased to be all bk together finally so are def extra extra extra careful with our baby dd now!!!!

Thank u again for ur msg, was kind of u. Xx


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## ali333

im so glad to hear all is sorted, i cant imagine what you have been through, yes prof bishop is very well know and a top dr!! most of our facebook group see him at sheffield and really rate him. you could join if you like? are you on facebook?loads of parents in similar situations even the parents of a child who was on panarama and loads of advice!! and some parents from bbs that have helped people in the same situation as u get there children back.its a closed group so you wouldnt have to worry about anyone peeping lol unfortunately with o.i there is a possibility of fracturing again, because collegen in the bones is lesser than a average child making the bone weaker. both my kids are hypermobile,slight grey/blue sclera, barrrel shaped chests ect. they look perfectly normal lol and no one can tell they have brittle bones. i cant post my email add because i need to post 10 post or more lol if you would like to give me yours ill join you to the fb group
your a great mum!!! take care XXXX


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## ali333

oh forgot to say. my kids havent had any testing.they have been clinicly diagnosed with some of the symptoms you mentioned. they both had there first fracture when the were toddling and have had a few more after that.. they are 5 and 6 yrs now, XX


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## Dancingkaty1

what is the facebook page? x


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## ali333

hi, sorry for the lateness, the facebook group is irish and uk oi parents or theres a international group called oi parents xx


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## ali333

ali333 said:


> hi, sorry for the lateness, the facebook group is irish and uk oi parents or theres a international group called oi parents xx

my name is alisa


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