# my diapers always stink now



## Marie000

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. My diapers smell even after they are washed.

I tried strip-washing (by hand with dish soap) and it didn't help. 

Here's my normal cleaning routine: 
I wash the diapers every 2-3 days. I use soap made specifically for diapers and I use the recommended amount. I always wash in cold water (hot water doesn't work on my machine) and do an extra rinse. I used to air dry all the time, but now I air dry the diapers and dry the inserts in the dryer. (forgot to mention, they're pocket diapers)

The smell mostly comes from the diapers themselves, not the inserts. 

I thought about increasing the amount of soap, but that would probably mean even more rinsing. 
Is there anything else I could be doing wrong? Anything that could help?


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## sheldonsmommy

I was washing in warm water but when my son started pooping more on solids I found I really needed to use a hot wash or I could still smell poop, especially on the inserts. But you say your inserts don't smell? 

What do they smell like? Poop, ammonia, I assume they don't smell like detergent.


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## minties

My pockets and covers/wraps always stink too, but the inserts and prefolds don't. It's a pee smell for me, not ammonia as such, just smells like urine.

Doesn't matter what heat or how many rinses I do. Line dry or tumble dry, they smell icky.

I rinse every nappy by hand as its removed, long wash, 3 rinses and cloth safe detergent.


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## adrie

If your diapers smell like pee or poo when washed, essentially it means that they are not getting cleaned properly. Rinsing will not clean bacteria. 

Dish soap is not an adequate "stripping method" for the issues you are experiencing. Dawn can be used individually on a diaper that may have some cream build up and repelling issues. 

I know you mentioned the basics, but what specifically is your wash routine? What kind of washer, how many diapers and on what load size? Do you have hard water? What kind of detergent are you using? if you run me through your exact routine, I can make some suggestions.


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## minties

adrie, what would make the pockets or covers stink but not the prefolds in my case? I'd appreciate some ideas 

It seems to me that artificial fabric gets stinky but not natural stuff.


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## Marie000

adrie said:


> If your diapers smell like pee or poo when washed, essentially it means that they are not getting cleaned properly. Rinsing will not clean bacteria.
> 
> Dish soap is not an adequate "stripping method" for the issues you are experiencing. Dawn can be used individually on a diaper that may have some cream build up and repelling issues.
> 
> I know you mentioned the basics, but what specifically is your wash routine? What kind of washer, how many diapers and on what load size? Do you have hard water? What kind of detergent are you using? if you run me through your exact routine, I can make some suggestions.

I have a top load washer, roughly 12-16 diapers at a time (plus wipes and usually a wet bag or two). I use the largest load size on my machine, even if the diapers only fill it about 1/3 of the way. The detergent I use is one made specifically for diapers and sold at a local bulk store. It's a local brand. 

Is there another stripping method I could use or is stripping not going to help?


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## adrie

minties said:


> adrie, what would make the pockets or covers stink but not the prefolds in my case? I'd appreciate some ideas
> 
> It seems to me that artificial fabric gets stinky but not natural stuff.

What is your wash routine? Do you have hard water? What kind of washer do you use and what kind of detergent? How many diapers for what load size? 

Microfiber is notorious for trapping bacteria if that is what you use. Some could be smelling and harboring bacteria out of more usage as well. For example, some of my inserts were similar to what you are describing--a pee or unclean smell--but not super strong, just not clean. Maybe some of your synthetic materials just happened to have absorbed more urine/poop than some others by mere chance. 

Either way, it really does mean they are not getting clean and your wash routine needs to be tweaked a bit. Clean diapers should never smell bad.


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## adrie

Marie000 said:


> adrie said:
> 
> 
> If your diapers smell like pee or poo when washed, essentially it means that they are not getting cleaned properly. Rinsing will not clean bacteria.
> 
> Dish soap is not an adequate "stripping method" for the issues you are experiencing. Dawn can be used individually on a diaper that may have some cream build up and repelling issues.
> 
> I know you mentioned the basics, but what specifically is your wash routine? What kind of washer, how many diapers and on what load size? Do you have hard water? What kind of detergent are you using? if you run me through your exact routine, I can make some suggestions.
> 
> I have a top load washer, roughly 12-16 diapers at a time (plus wipes and usually a wet bag or two). I use the largest load size on my machine, even if the diapers only fill it about 1/3 of the way. The detergent I use is one made specifically for diapers and sold at a local bulk store. It's a local brand.
> 
> Is there another stripping method I could use or is stripping not going to help?Click to expand...


Do you have a top loading, standard washer, and not an HE washer?
Do you do a pre-rinse or quick wash prior to the main wash cycle?

If you have any measure of hard water, (you can find out that info online or locally) I would actually suggest a mineral strip first--which I could assist you with, and that can help you remove any build up and start fresh with some tweaking on your wash routine. 

If you have a standard, Non-HE washer, it definitely sounds like you are using too much water. You want to make sure that there is a "stew like" consistency, not a "soup-like" consistency, so that diapers have opportunity for friction and can agitate against each other. That is a really important factor for cleaning them properly. 

If you can let me know about those 2 top questions, I can make further suggestions.


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## Marie000

adrie said:


> Marie000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adrie said:
> 
> 
> If your diapers smell like pee or poo when washed, essentially it means that they are not getting cleaned properly. Rinsing will not clean bacteria.
> 
> Dish soap is not an adequate "stripping method" for the issues you are experiencing. Dawn can be used individually on a diaper that may have some cream build up and repelling issues.
> 
> I know you mentioned the basics, but what specifically is your wash routine? What kind of washer, how many diapers and on what load size? Do you have hard water? What kind of detergent are you using? if you run me through your exact routine, I can make some suggestions.
> 
> I have a top load washer, roughly 12-16 diapers at a time (plus wipes and usually a wet bag or two). I use the largest load size on my machine, even if the diapers only fill it about 1/3 of the way. The detergent I use is one made specifically for diapers and sold at a local bulk store. It's a local brand.
> 
> Is there another stripping method I could use or is stripping not going to help?Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a top loading, standard washer, and not an HE washer?
> Do you do a pre-rinse or quick wash prior to the main wash cycle?
> 
> If you have any measure of hard water, (you can find out that info online or locally) I would actually suggest a mineral strip first--which I could assist you with, and that can help you remove any build up and start fresh with some tweaking on your wash routine.
> 
> If you have a standard, Non-HE washer, it definitely sounds like you are using too much water. You want to make sure that there is a "stew like" consistency, not a "soup-like" consistency, so that diapers have opportunity for friction and can agitate against each other. That is a really important factor for cleaning them properly.
> 
> If you can let me know about those 2 top questions, I can make further suggestions.Click to expand...

It is a standard washer. I don't think I have hard water. I don't do a pre-rinse or quick wash first. 

Next time I'll do a pre-rinse and then wash with less water.


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## adrie

Okay, that sounds like a good start.That many diapers is nowhere near a large load size, and especially so for a standard washer. I say that is a small or medium sized load; I wonder if you can program it to start on small and if there is too little water to then convert it to a medium load? 

So you don't think you have hard water, but you're not certain? That is really important info to find out for cloth diapering because it can make all the difference in your wash routine. For example, it is suggested that those with hard water use a water softener to help the detergent do its job. (I use one for every cycle and we have hard to extremely hard water here). 

Contrary to popular belief in the cloth diaper community, less detergent is not better as well, and especially for those with hard water. If you have hard water, it is actually suggested for you to use more detergent because it is difficult for it to cut through all of the minerals to properly clean your laundry and diapers. Also, if you are using a "soap" rather than a detergent, that CAN actually build up on your diapers (think soap scum), while detergent is made to rinse clean. Additionally, "Detergent build up" is actually confused for mineral build up. (60% of people in the UK and 85% of people in North America have some measure of hard water).

If you let me know how it's going, I can help further. My guess is that if you have a lot of build up, you may need to do a mineral strip if you have any measure of hard water to start. Then alter your routine to stop it from happening again.


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## minties

I don't use microfiber, I use bamboo and cotton prefolds. Those parts don't smell at all, they have a crisp, clean fresh smell. Is only pocket outers (with micro fleece lining) and bummis super whisper wraps that retain any smell.

Top loader, 5kg capacity machine, not over filled. I use a liquid or powder detergent, depends on what's cheaper that week at the supermarket. Fragrance free, but mainly because I hate perfumes and they make me sneeze. Can only do a cold wash as that is all that is available, there is no hot water tap in the laundry, though sometimes I fill the machine with hot water using a bucket.

No idea if the water is hard, I don't know what that even is. How would I know?

I usually line dry.

I have made a few changes. I'm not dry soaking in a bucket now, I'm pre-rinsing the covers and inners in hot water now, using more detergent and one less rinse and the smell has gone. I did no pre-rinse, a long cycle with 3 rinses and less detergent before. 

I use plant based detergents for all washing (nappies, clothes, dishes, hair etc) and saw you said they need some heat to work?


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## Rachel_C

I would definitely agree that some heat in the water will help. Cold water doesn't help the detergent get going properly so even heating the water a little should help.

Synthetics can trap nasties because of the structure of the fibres - whether that is too much detergent or too little meaning that dirt is left behind. I'm yet to be convinced that hard water deposits are a bigger problem than either of those! Cold rinsing will not leave mineral deposits behind, only heated water will really do that. I'd just wash any smelly nappies with a full dose of detergent and lots of water, rinsing until all the detergent is gone. Sometimes it can help to use a different detergent to your usual one, same as switching shampoos can be good sometimes. You can use cloth or normal detergents; it is absolutely not true that nappy companies only make them to make money as some people want to believe. 

After you've cleaned out any gunk, wash with whatever dose of detergent you're comfortable with. If that's a full dose, go for it. If you want to keep it down, maybe go for 1/4 or 1/3 dose (start with a full dose if it's cloth detergent). Sniff them when they come out - if they've not been washed properly you'll know! If that's the case, put them straight back in and rewash with more detergent. If they're still smelling of detergent, that is a clear indicator that there is still detergent in your nappies. "Designed to rinse clean" is not true of most brands. Optical brighteners are designed to stay in fabrics to help them reflect light better (makes them look sparkly white!), fragrance is designed to be left on fabrics so you think how wonderfully clean your stuff is. Some machines are simply better at rinsing than others! Mine is terrible - great wash but poor rinsing = not much detergent needed but extra rinses are.

You can get little testing strips for water hardness - one came with the dishwasher when we bought that or I think you can just buy them cheaply online. Or look up your water company and they probably have something telling you - here they call it a water quality report. You might need to scan through a few pages of stuff about what bugs they found in the water and water hardness will just be a little bit with it given in a few different measurements. You can normally tell if you have hard water though - do you get white scaly bits in your kettle that fall off and ruin your tea after a while? If you go away from your area, do you need more or less shampoo to get the same bubbles on your hair? If you need a lot to bubble up (taking into account how much hair you have and how dirty it was), you probably have harder water.


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## JenX

Minties, for what it is worth, I had some stink issues with Bummis Super Whisper Wraps when I was using them (back when my LO was in small sizes), too. It always seemed to be the leg elastic areas that would smell. When she outgrew them I changed to Blueberry Coveralls and never had another issue. I wonder if it is something about those wraps that make them hold on to stink?


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## Nikki_d72

adrie, Can you please talk me through a mineral strip? I have hard well water here and am currently using an old top loader, cold pre-rinse, warm wash with hard water nappy powder detergent, 3 rinses. I also pre-rinse everything and rinse and wring my night nappies lots of times then a hot hand rinse or 2 to get rid of ammonia smells then dry pail. I wash every second day. 

I am using mixture of microfibre pockets, bamboo and cotton boosters and bamboo fitted night nappies. I'd say the bamboo is holding minerals and not getting clean enough - I usually air dry only but had to finish them off by the fire last night and there was a definite whiff of warm pee. Not ammonia. I stripped all the bamboo only a couple of weeks ago, using sodium percarbonate with a bit of sodium carbonate to soften the water, soaked in hot water overnight then washed. They were fine but the problem seems to be returning quite fast. 

Hope you can tell me how to do a mineral strip and I'm going to try to use less water during the wash too - I think they may be too soupy - good description!


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## adrie

minties said:


> I don't use microfiber, I use bamboo and cotton prefolds. Those parts don't smell at all, they have a crisp, clean fresh smell. Is only pocket outers (with micro fleece lining) and bummis super whisper wraps that retain any smell.
> 
> Top loader, 5kg capacity machine, not over filled. I use a liquid or powder detergent, depends on what's cheaper that week at the supermarket. Fragrance free, but mainly because I hate perfumes and they make me sneeze. Can only do a cold wash as that is all that is available, there is no hot water tap in the laundry, though sometimes I fill the machine with hot water using a bucket.
> 
> No idea if the water is hard, I don't know what that even is. How would I know?
> 
> I usually line dry.
> 
> I have made a few changes. I'm not dry soaking in a bucket now, I'm pre-rinsing the covers and inners in hot water now, using more detergent and one less rinse and the smell has gone. I did no pre-rinse, a long cycle with 3 rinses and less detergent before.
> 
> I use plant based detergents for all washing (nappies, clothes, dishes, hair etc) and saw you said they need some heat to work?


Unfortunately, plant based detergents require hot water to wash effectively. I use Tide, and so that doesn't matter--in fact most of my wash (prewash and the main cycle) is warm to cold. 

Issues can arise overtime that are not apparent right away, and as you've seen, can vary depending on the materials used in your nappies. 

As far as finding out if you have hard water, I just searched locally online and all of the information was posted on our city's website. You could try something similar, or call a city number if available. I know there are also testing kits that you can purchase which directly test your own water source as well.


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## adrie

Nikki_d72 said:


> adrie, Can you please talk me through a mineral strip? I have hard well water here and am currently using an old top loader, cold pre-rinse, warm wash with hard water nappy powder detergent, 3 rinses. I also pre-rinse everything and rinse and wring my night nappies lots of times then a hot hand rinse or 2 to get rid of ammonia smells then dry pail. I wash every second day.
> 
> I am using mixture of microfibre pockets, bamboo and cotton boosters and bamboo fitted night nappies. I'd say the bamboo is holding minerals and not getting clean enough - I usually air dry only but had to finish them off by the fire last night and there was a definite whiff of warm pee. Not ammonia. I stripped all the bamboo only a couple of weeks ago, using sodium percarbonate with a bit of sodium carbonate to soften the water, soaked in hot water overnight then washed. They were fine but the problem seems to be returning quite fast.
> 
> Hope you can tell me how to do a mineral strip and I'm going to try to use less water during the wash too - I think they may be too soupy - good description!

Unfortunately, sodium percarbonate is basically just baking soda or washing soda, and is most likely not enough. 

It's true, any time nappies smell--something is wrong in the routine. No one should have to strip and it's definitely not something that would be a regular occurrance. 

If you have hard water, you can either buy a product called RLR (search online) or you can make your own mix with one tbsp calgon, 1 tbsp washing soda, and one tbsp borax. This will make enough for half of a bathtub of water; if you need a full tub, mix a double batch of 2 tbsp each. Add the 3 products to HOT water and swish around good before adding all of your cloth and nappies. Soak until the water is completely cold. 

If you are experiencing any mold or ammonia, I would suggest a bleach soak afterward, as that is the easiest, most cost effective method for stripping after any hard water build up has been removed. 

But before that, I would definitely suggest tweaking your wash routine so you don't have to strip or bleach again. 

So you are using a cloth specific detergent? If that is the kind you want to use, I would suggest you use a lot more of it, as they are weaker than mainstream detergents. Personally, I would not recommend them at all, but to each her own. 

Also, you can add a water softener like borax or calgon to each main wash of nappies to help inhibit hard water buildup. Also, if after your main wash, your diapers are not soapy or slimy feeling, extra rinses are not necessary and are actually counterproductive as they will redeposit minerals onto your diapers.


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## adrie

Rachel_C said:


> I would definitely agree that some heat in the water will help. Cold water doesn't help the detergent get going properly so even heating the water a little should help.
> 
> Synthetics can trap nasties because of the structure of the fibres - whether that is too much detergent or too little meaning that dirt is left behind. I'm yet to be convinced that hard water deposits are a bigger problem than either of those! Cold rinsing will not leave mineral deposits behind, only heated water will really do that. I'd just wash any smelly nappies with a full dose of detergent and lots of water, rinsing until all the detergent is gone. Sometimes it can help to use a different detergent to your usual one, same as switching shampoos can be good sometimes. You can use cloth or normal detergents; it is absolutely not true that nappy companies only make them to make money as some people want to believe.
> 
> After you've cleaned out any gunk, wash with whatever dose of detergent you're comfortable with. If that's a full dose, go for it. If you want to keep it down, maybe go for 1/4 or 1/3 dose (start with a full dose if it's cloth detergent). Sniff them when they come out - if they've not been washed properly you'll know! If that's the case, put them straight back in and rewash with more detergent. If they're still smelling of detergent, that is a clear indicator that there is still detergent in your nappies. "Designed to rinse clean" is not true of most brands. Optical brighteners are designed to stay in fabrics to help them reflect light better (makes them look sparkly white!), fragrance is designed to be left on fabrics so you think how wonderfully clean your stuff is. Some machines are simply better at rinsing than others! Mine is terrible - great wash but poor rinsing = not much detergent needed but extra rinses are.
> 
> You can get little testing strips for water hardness - one came with the dishwasher when we bought that or I think you can just buy them cheaply online. Or look up your water company and they probably have something telling you - here they call it a water quality report. You might need to scan through a few pages of stuff about what bugs they found in the water and water hardness will just be a little bit with it given in a few different measurements. You can normally tell if you have hard water though - do you get white scaly bits in your kettle that fall off and ruin your tea after a while? If you go away from your area, do you need more or less shampoo to get the same bubbles on your hair? If you need a lot to bubble up (taking into account how much hair you have and how dirty it was), you probably have harder water.


I realize that you and I differ with pretty much everything in terms of CD, but I will post a response for anyone who would like the information. 


Cold water is fine to use if a person is using a strong, mainstream detergent, but not a plant based one, as they requires hot water to work effectively. Strong mainstream detergents would be detergents such as Tide, Gain, etc., here in Canada; people can search out comparable brands in their own countries if interested. 

Hard water minerals are present regardless of the temperature of the water. Not quite sure where you have found info to the contrary... ? An easy way to prove this would be to do a water strip test in cold water. 

Optical brighteners will not effect the efficacy of diaper absorbancy, nor will they make them smell. They are a non issue in terms of CD. As are enzymes, which essentially attack poop and bacteria. 

Unfortunately, washing with too little detergent may not make issues arise immediately, but can do so overtime. Detergent dosage shouldn't be some exact science as most people have diaper loads of various sizes from time to time, which may require more or less water/detergent but not so much so that it seems daunting to try to figure out. 

To use myself as an example, I always use the scooper provided in the box and scoop to line 1 for my prerinse regardless of the amount of nappies washed (generally 12-16 w/ 1 insert each and maybe a wet bag) and to line 2 in the main wash with 2 tbsp calgon for up to 18 nappies with 1 insert each max. That's it, simple and easy. An extra rinse at the end of the main cycle and that is it. We have hard to extremely hard water here and I use a front loading machine. 


If anyone is using a fragrance detergent, I'm not so sure they are worried about fragrance, and truly, as long as they don't feel soapy or slimy, there is truly no need to rinse until all detergent smell is gone. This poster may not believe hard water exists :shrug: but it does. If you have hard water and you are rinsing like mad because of some light smell of detergent, it truly will work against you and redeposit those minerals onto your diapers, regardless of temperature. 

Of course anyone is free to use whatever they want to clean their diapers, and however much, but I strongly suggest you consider your detergent kind as well as the amount used if you consistently encounter issues of any kind.


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## Rachel_C

Adrie what is the problem you see with hard water? If the minerals stay in the water, they are NOT in your nappies, they wash down the drain with the water in the same way they came in. If you don't change the temperature of the water (like when you do a cold rinse, which is the way most, if not all, machines rinse here in the UK), you don't change the carbon dioxide in the water, meaning you don't change the way the water is acidic enough to keep the minerals dissolved. Rinsing in cold water doesn't release the CO2 so the minerals don't precipitate so they aren't stuck in anything (other than the water!). Testing your water will show what minerals are in the water but it says nothing about what will be left behind after a wash/rinse. 

If you want to see it for yourself, get a jug of water, a kettle and a glasses. Pour a glass of water into your kettle, boil it. Pour out the water and repeat many times. If you have hard water, the heat will make the minerals precipitate and you'll see the build up in your kettle. Now repeat the experiment but don't heat the water. Pour a glass of water into your cold kettle, let it sit for a minute, sloosh it around if you want. Repeat as many times as you did the hot water. You'll not see any mineral fuzz because you haven't heated the water so the deposits have poured out of the kettle with the water. The same happens in your washing machine - if you don't heat the water, the minerals stay in the water NOT the nappies. My memory is pretty fuzzy but we learned about acid rain and mineral deposits when we were about 13. It's not that complicated. 

I'm not sure how you can on one hand claim that hard water deposits are terrible but deposits of anything else (like fragrance or brighteners) are fine. This goes very much against the experience of many people and the recommendations of many nappy manufacturers. I've asked you several times if you have any references to support these claims of yours but you have yet to give any. I accept that you don't have problems with detergent build up but lots of other people do. You can't just dismiss that.


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## Rachel_C

adrie said:


> Unfortunately, sodium percarbonate is basically just baking soda or washing soda, and is most likely not enough.

Believe what you like about the efficacy of sodium percarbonate but no, it is not baking soda! Want to add it to your cakes? Yummy. 

Sodium percarbonate is made from sodium carbonate (washing soda) and hydrogen peroxide. The important bit is the hydrogen peroxide; the sodium carbonate is used to make the liquid into a powder form so it's easy and safe to cart around.

Baking powder is sodium bicarbonate. They all have different properties which is why you can't eat washing soda or sodium percarbonate.


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## adrie

I've read up on hard water in terms of how it relates to my CD'ing and I believe in products such as RLR, that are even specifically marketed toward it for that purpose. 

You believe detergent build up causes repelling and I believe hard water causes build up of detergent and other bacteria; it is what it is I guess. I use a full dose of detergent in a front loader with really hard water 3-4 times per week on my nappies for months and months and I have no issues, never had to strip. Proof enough for me that detergent build up does not exist, along with countless testimonials of other women who CD. Also, my microfiber inserts are more absorbent with more use from what I've noticed. People can do a wee bit of searching around and decide for themselves what they believe. To each her own. 

Also, regardless of the components in sodium percarbonate, I am in no way surprised it wasn't sufficient for stripping (it's just oxyclean, which is a booster for detergent and can help w/ staining). But again, to each her own. It's not the first time I have read on here that it wasn't enough.


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## sheldonsmommy

adrie said:


> Nikki_d72 said:
> 
> 
> adrie, Can you please talk me through a mineral strip? I have hard well water here and am currently using an old top loader, cold pre-rinse, warm wash with hard water nappy powder detergent, 3 rinses. I also pre-rinse everything and rinse and wring my night nappies lots of times then a hot hand rinse or 2 to get rid of ammonia smells then dry pail. I wash every second day.
> 
> I am using mixture of microfibre pockets, bamboo and cotton boosters and bamboo fitted night nappies. I'd say the bamboo is holding minerals and not getting clean enough - I usually air dry only but had to finish them off by the fire last night and there was a definite whiff of warm pee. Not ammonia. I stripped all the bamboo only a couple of weeks ago, using sodium percarbonate with a bit of sodium carbonate to soften the water, soaked in hot water overnight then washed. They were fine but the problem seems to be returning quite fast.
> 
> Hope you can tell me how to do a mineral strip and I'm going to try to use less water during the wash too - I think they may be too soupy - good description!
> 
> Unfortunately, sodium percarbonate is basically just baking soda or washing soda, and is most likely not enough.
> 
> It's true, any time nappies smell--something is wrong in the routine. No one should have to strip and it's definitely not something that would be a regular occurrance.
> 
> If you have hard water, you can either buy a product called RLR (search online) or you can make your own mix with one tbsp calgon, 1 tbsp washing soda, and one tbsp borax. This will make enough for half of a bathtub of water; if you need a full tub, mix a double batch of 2 tbsp each. Add the 3 products to HOT water and swish around good before adding all of your cloth and nappies. Soak until the water is completely cold.
> 
> If you are experiencing any mold or ammonia, I would suggest a bleach soak afterward, as that is the easiest, most cost effective method for stripping after any hard water build up has been removed.
> 
> But before that, I would definitely suggest tweaking your wash routine so you don't have to strip or bleach again.
> 
> So you are using a cloth specific detergent? If that is the kind you want to use, I would suggest you use a lot more of it, as they are weaker than mainstream detergents. Personally, I would not recommend them at all, but to each her own.
> 
> Also, you can add a water softener like borax or calgon to each main wash of nappies to help inhibit hard water buildup. Also, if after your main wash, your diapers are not soapy or slimy feeling, extra rinses are not necessary and are actually counterproductive as they will redeposit minerals onto your diapers.Click to expand...

She used a product that is mostly washing soda, added more washing soda, and you tell her washing soda just won't do, instead she needs a product consisting of... washing soda. Lol!

Washing soda is actually my magic funk remover, though. I soak it in the washer with hot for a couple hours, then toss in some detergent and proceed with the wash.


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## adrie

sheldonsmommy said:


> adrie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikki_d72 said:
> 
> 
> adrie, Can you please talk me through a mineral strip? I have hard well water here and am currently using an old top loader, cold pre-rinse, warm wash with hard water nappy powder detergent, 3 rinses. I also pre-rinse everything and rinse and wring my night nappies lots of times then a hot hand rinse or 2 to get rid of ammonia smells then dry pail. I wash every second day.
> 
> I am using mixture of microfibre pockets, bamboo and cotton boosters and bamboo fitted night nappies. I'd say the bamboo is holding minerals and not getting clean enough - I usually air dry only but had to finish them off by the fire last night and there was a definite whiff of warm pee. Not ammonia. I stripped all the bamboo only a couple of weeks ago, using sodium percarbonate with a bit of sodium carbonate to soften the water, soaked in hot water overnight then washed. They were fine but the problem seems to be returning quite fast.
> 
> Hope you can tell me how to do a mineral strip and I'm going to try to use less water during the wash too - I think they may be too soupy - good description!
> 
> Unfortunately, sodium percarbonate is basically just baking soda or washing soda, and is most likely not enough.
> 
> It's true, any time nappies smell--something is wrong in the routine. No one should have to strip and it's definitely not something that would be a regular occurrance.
> 
> If you have hard water, you can either buy a product called RLR (search online) or you can make your own mix with one tbsp calgon, 1 tbsp washing soda, and one tbsp borax. This will make enough for half of a bathtub of water; if you need a full tub, mix a double batch of 2 tbsp each. Add the 3 products to HOT water and swish around good before adding all of your cloth and nappies. Soak until the water is completely cold.
> 
> If you are experiencing any mold or ammonia, I would suggest a bleach soak afterward, as that is the easiest, most cost effective method for stripping after any hard water build up has been removed.
> 
> But before that, I would definitely suggest tweaking your wash routine so you don't have to strip or bleach again.
> 
> So you are using a cloth specific detergent? If that is the kind you want to use, I would suggest you use a lot more of it, as they are weaker than mainstream detergents. Personally, I would not recommend them at all, but to each her own.
> 
> Also, you can add a water softener like borax or calgon to each main wash of nappies to help inhibit hard water buildup. Also, if after your main wash, your diapers are not soapy or slimy feeling, extra rinses are not necessary and are actually counterproductive as they will redeposit minerals onto your diapers.Click to expand...
> 
> She used a product that is mostly washing soda, added more washing soda, and you tell her washing soda just won't do, instead she needs a product consisting of... washing soda. Lol!
> 
> Washing soda is actually my magic funk remover, though. I soak it in the washer with hot for a couple hours, then toss in some detergent and proceed with the wash.Click to expand...



Uh, no. I could see if I told her to use a product that only contained washing soda, but I did not. 

*RLR is not just washing soda...it is 1/3 washing soda.* Oxy clean is not the same thing as RLR and it is not even manufactured as a stripping agent. Calgon and borax are needed to make the RLR strip along with the washing soda. 

People can try your method or look into store bought or "home made" RLR. Just putting it out there for them if they want. 

https://www.momsmilkboutique.com/RLR.html


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## JenX

Adrie, you never just put anything out there for people. You always make sure to say everyone else is wrong but you, and only your method will work. That's why your posts are so unhelpful. Lots of different methods will work, and they don't all involve Tide, chlorine bleach, or RLR.


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## Rachel_C

When my daughter was 2 she absolutely refused to believe that polar bears are real because she'd never seen one and neither had her friends. I had to tell her that I'd never seen one either so she concluded that they were made up. Not bad for a 2 year old but in an adult it would be funny. The idea that you haven't experienced detergent build up yourself and neither have other people you've spoken to doesn't mean that it doesn't exist! That is not the logical conclusion. It's not 'proof enough', it's no proof at all.

If you want to discuss actual reasons, you know, like science and stuff, I would love to do that but so far all you seem able to do is throw around words like 'misinformation' and 'myth' but you haven't provided anything vaguely factual to support your beliefs. All you have is 'I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist'. 

On one hand you tell us that everybody is just out to make MONEY (nappy manufacturers, nappy detergent makers) so they can't be trusted to sell us products that work or give good advice but then you tell us that other products like RLR are made to solve certain problems so of course THEIR manufacturers are telling the truth, as are detergent manufacturers when they tell us their product rinses clean. I'd love to know how you decide which are which... and I mean with logic or science, not just 'I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist'. 

Perhaps you could start by taking us through how you think mineral deposits are left on fabrics. What causes the minerals to precipitate? The reading I've done has led me to believe that it's the change in temperature and I've explained how I came to that conclusion several times. If you're serious about convincing people you're right, you should consider talking us through how you came to yours. I've been around cloth websites and forums for long enough to have changed my views several times - I'm not going to dismiss something because I don't like it, I'd rather be shown I was wrong and change my opinion than be left being wrong if I am! If you have real facts, please share them!


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## adrie

This is old news. Nowhere in any of my posts the last little while have I used those terms, and I'm no longer going to address it. 

I post in threads of those asking for suggestions and advice, not in threads talking about the scientific proof behind my suggestions. That is your forte, so be it. You can make a thread providing all of your own findings if you like. Never once have I made any personal suggestions to you, nor have I felt as though I have to prove anything.


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## adrie

JenX said:


> Adrie, you never just put anything out there for people. You always make sure to say everyone else is wrong but you, and only your method will work. That's why your posts are so unhelpful. Lots of different methods will work, and they don't all involve Tide, chlorine bleach, or RLR.

Actually, I *did* just put it out there in that post. 

The problem and what is so daunting about cloth diapering, is that SO many methods are suggested on a one on one basis. Cloth diapering is actually very simple and is made to seem very complex and specific when it need not be. All each of us has to do is find a detergent we like (and/or feel comfortable using), and develop a good wash routine. Unfortunately sometimes what we feel best about using isn't sufficient, and many of us just want what works with as little issue or tweaking as possible.


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## adrie

Okay, here. I decided to take 5 minutes and search out hard water minerals in relation to cold water. This is a simple diagram. Apparently colder water holds onto calcium and makes it less soluble than hotter water temperatures.

https://www.gewater.com/handbook/cooling_water_systems/fig30-4.jsp

Also, hard water builds up in colder water as well, such as toilet bowls.


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## sheldonsmommy

adrie said:


> JenX said:
> 
> 
> Adrie, you never just put anything out there for people. You always make sure to say everyone else is wrong but you, and only your method will work. That's why your posts are so unhelpful. Lots of different methods will work, and they don't all involve Tide, chlorine bleach, or RLR.
> 
> Actually, I *did* just put it out there in that post.
> 
> The problem and what is so daunting about cloth diapering, is that SO many methods are suggested on a one on one basis. Cloth diapering is actually very simple and is made to seem very complex and specific when it need not be. All each of us has to do is find a detergent we like (and/or feel comfortable using), and develop a good wash routine. Unfortunately sometimes what we feel best about using isn't sufficient, and many of us just want what works with as little issue or tweaking as possible.Click to expand...

The problem is that sometimes it takes months to find out you have a problem with your routine because the build up takes time to start getting stinky. Then they pop on this thread and look for alternatives. So I agree, it is easy once you've found the right routine, but not everyone is so lucky to have found it on the first attempt and has to don sunglasses in order to do a diaper change. 

I experienced a build up about 2 months in, and after having done a strip and decreasing the amount of detergent I was using, I haven't had any major problems in 6 months. To me, that is a good indication of detergent build up, but of course I never took it to a lab to have it analyzed, so I can't be sure.


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## JenX

adrie said:


> JenX said:
> 
> 
> Adrie, you never just put anything out there for people. You always make sure to say everyone else is wrong but you, and only your method will work. That's why your posts are so unhelpful. Lots of different methods will work, and they don't all involve Tide, chlorine bleach, or RLR.
> 
> Actually, I *did* just put it out there in that post.
> 
> The problem and what is so daunting about cloth diapering, is that SO many methods are suggested on a one on one basis. Cloth diapering is actually very simple and is made to seem very complex and specific when it need not be. All each of us has to do is find a detergent we like (and/or feel comfortable using), and develop a good wash routine. Unfortunately sometimes what we feel best about isn't sufficient, and many of us just want what works with as little issue or tweaking as possible.Click to expand...

Well many others of us want options that aren't as nasty as enzyme-laden (and awful smelling) Tide, which can cause issues with our little ones' skin, or chlorine bleach, which several posters have pointed out that they don't want to use. You're posting in the natural parenting section, remember? A lot of us are cloth diapering to keep our babies away from harsh chemicals. And as others have pointed out, issues with buildup can take longer to surface than you've even been cloth diapering.


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## adrie

Fair enough. There are chemicals in everything though, even in the air we breathe. As another example, check out GSE or GSOs components and see how natural that is. Yet it is touted as something natural in the CD community.

I talk about tide but I've also mentioned free and clear detergents. Ya'll are going to use whatever it is you want, but like I said, diapers will never stink, cause rashes or repel if they are cleaned properly. It is extremely toxic and harmful to put babies in unclean diapers. 

Regardless I am not going to stop posting info I have learned and gathered, nor am I going to engage in any petty debates because a few of you don't care for me.


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## adrie

QUOTE from sheldonsmommy


_I experienced a build up about 2 months in, and after having done a strip and decreasing the amount of detergent I was using, I haven't had any major problems in 6 months. To me, that is a good indication of detergent build up, but of course I never took it to a lab to have it analyzed, so I can't be sure._

So no 'major' issues, but still minor stink/repelling? We all know that issues of any kind indicate a problem in the wash routine and not even minor stink or repelling issues will happen if the wash routine is solid.


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## sheldonsmommy

^That seems very much like you want to perpetuate a petty argument. Your arrogance is actually baffling. 

Like I mentioned before, for some people it takes time. Most people encounter some sort of issue along the way. 

When my son started solids, his poop became more difficult to wash out of my inserts with just a warm wash, so I switched to a hot wash. Crisis averted. But thank you for your genuine concern...


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## adrie

Not really. I asked because I was curious to know the answer, not argue.

Funny thing is though, it actually is a problem with the prep for the wash routine. I went through the exact opposite thing as you about 3 months in as my LO is FF and I always rinsed all of soiled microfiber inserts before throwing them in a closed hanging diaper bag. 

Then they started to develop a musty smell, I bleach soaked them, got an open trash can and the issue is gone. Luckily my washer gets rid of any staining on them as I have seen a lot of staining issues with others.


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## fieryphoenix

adrie said:


> Fair enough. There are chemicals in everything though, even in the air we breathe. As another example, check out GSE or GSOs components and see how natural that is. Yet it is touted as something natural in the CD community.
> 
> I talk about tide but I've also mentioned free and clear detergents. Ya'll are going to use whatever it is you want, but like I said, diapers will never stink, cause rashes or repel if they are cleaned properly. It is extremely toxic and harmful to put babies in unclean diapers.
> 
> Regardless I am not going to stop posting info I have learned and gathered, nor am I going to engage in any petty debates because a few of you don't care for me.

I don't cloth diaper but you have a really crummy attitude...


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## adrie

I don't see how that post was so bad? It's merely the truth. Despite the fact, how is that a productive or helpful comment whatsoever? 

I think we should just stick to the issue at hand rather than trying to make others feel bad. No one is going to bully me off this forum nor has the power to make me feel bad about myself. 

I suggest other people not take things so personally and assume I'm saying or thinking things I'm likely not, and I will do the same.


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## AnneD

Rachel_C said:


> When my daughter was 2 she absolutely refused to believe that polar bears are real because she'd never seen one and neither had her friends. I had to tell her that I'd never seen one either so she concluded that they were made up.

I love the way little kids reason. This has brightened my day a little.


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## Nikki_d72

adrie said:


> Nikki_d72 said:
> 
> 
> adrie, Can you please talk me through a mineral strip? I have hard well water here and am currently using an old top loader, cold pre-rinse, warm wash with hard water nappy powder detergent, 3 rinses. I also pre-rinse everything and rinse and wring my night nappies lots of times then a hot hand rinse or 2 to get rid of ammonia smells then dry pail. I wash every second day.
> 
> I am using mixture of microfibre pockets, bamboo and cotton boosters and bamboo fitted night nappies. I'd say the bamboo is holding minerals and not getting clean enough - I usually air dry only but had to finish them off by the fire last night and there was a definite whiff of warm pee. Not ammonia. I stripped all the bamboo only a couple of weeks ago, using sodium percarbonate with a bit of sodium carbonate to soften the water, soaked in hot water overnight then washed. They were fine but the problem seems to be returning quite fast.
> 
> Hope you can tell me how to do a mineral strip and I'm going to try to use less water during the wash too - I think they may be too soupy - good description!
> 
> Unfortunately, sodium percarbonate is basically just baking soda or washing soda, and is most likely not enough.
> 
> It's true, any time nappies smell--something is wrong in the routine. No one should have to strip and it's definitely not something that would be a regular occurrance.
> 
> If you have hard water, you can either buy a product called RLR (search online) or you can make your own mix with one tbsp calgon, 1 tbsp washing soda, and one tbsp borax. This will make enough for half of a bathtub of water; if you need a full tub, mix a double batch of 2 tbsp each. Add the 3 products to HOT water and swish around good before adding all of your cloth and nappies. Soak until the water is completely cold.
> 
> If you are experiencing any mold or ammonia, I would suggest a bleach soak afterward, as that is the easiest, most cost effective method for stripping after any hard water build up has been removed.
> 
> But before that, I would definitely suggest tweaking your wash routine so you don't have to strip or bleach again.
> 
> So you are using a cloth specific detergent? If that is the kind you want to use, I would suggest you use a lot more of it, as they are weaker than mainstream detergents. Personally, I would not recommend them at all, but to each her own.
> 
> Also, you can add a water softener like borax or calgon to each main wash of nappies to help inhibit hard water buildup. Also, if after your main wash, your diapers are not soapy or slimy feeling, extra rinses are not necessary and are actually counterproductive as they will redeposit minerals onto your diapers.Click to expand...

Thanks for that Adrie, but sodium percarbonate is not washing soda. It breaks down to become washing soda once it has released it's oxygen and mixed with the sodium carbonate (washing soda) it actually did defunk very well, it just has recurred quite fast, maybe I needed to repeat it. 

I can't get Clagon here I don't think, does anyone have the chemical makeup of it and I can source the raw ingredients? No Idea what RLR is and I won't use bleach if at all possible. Aside from the fact I don't want it near my baby's skin, it can't go down my drains - I have a wastewater treatment system called a Biolytix, basically a worm farm that eats our poos (I hope I never come back as one of those worms!) and bleach kills them quite successfully. Anything strong I use a bucket and toss it outside.

On the subject of buildups - I come from Scotland originally and we have really soft water there, detergent buildup absolutely can be a real issue where there is not hard water. Now here in NZ I have pretty hard water from a bore so have to find a different solution to a different problem, I can see why you would believe that detergent buildup doesn't exist if you have never lived in an area without hard water but it absolutely does, I can assure you. 

There is unfortunately no one-stop-shop for solutions to CD issues, you have to find the source of the problem first and these can vary. Mine I think is a combo of hard water/old clunker of a machine/too much water and possibly me doing warm washes/teething child with really strong pee at the moment.

I was hoping for an easy and proven mineral removal system, as I feel that if minerals are present, they can absorb bacteria (as is definitely a problem with iron-rich water) and hold smells.

Does anyone think if I wash cold it will stop the buildup of minerals in the cloth? I thought it was the combination of the detergent binding with the minerals that caused the buildup but happy for any science to tell me how to minimise this! If it is cold washing that will be great for the power bill but I do like to do warm washes to get rid of any bacteria, but the sun here is very strong in summer so that should take care of them and i could do the odd hot wash only as a precaution. I've never had any thrush issues or bad rashes anyway. (so far, touch wood, better not tempt fate!)

I do use washing soda as a softener with every wash, it's part of the nappy specific powder. 

To address another post - enzymes left in nappies can actually be a massive problem, as enzymes digest organic materials, so poop, sometimes the cloth if it is natural but most importantly, can start to digest your babies skin! This is why enzyme free detergents are recommended, I absolutely would never use them in an area that is damp and warm, ideal digestive conditions. 

Also, ANY smells left in nappies indicates a residue - if it is poo or wee you can smell then they are not getting clean enough or have a buildup of something that is holding the particles or bacteria to smell. If it is perfume you can smell then the detergent is leaving a residue. Clean nappies should smell of nothing.

My Mum once wanted to get stains out of my DD'd cotton bib years ago so soaked it in bleach, rinsed it several times then put it through the machine. next time I used it, it burned her chin instantly it got wet, I was livid, she was mortified, she had no idea it could stay through all of that. I was unpacking stuff for my wee boy recently and came across it, it still made me angry! I will not be using bleach against such a delicate area of skin, that is often damp and enclosed. He has never had any rashes, it is just me being a fussy madam really. :wacko:

A good trick I also found for ammonia smells (in the night nappies in the morning) is to rinse several times in cold, then in hot, as the ammonia is a gas it will not release in cold, but ti does in hot - it does work, but then maybe I am putting more minerals into the cloth this way?? 

I did find once I stripped them last time they felt softer and lighter so I do think I got lots of minerals out (the water went cloudy too and smelled chalky) and didn't have that reek in the morning. Funnily enough the microfibre is the least affected, definitely the bamboo is retaining a bit of something. I had no problems at all for at least 6 months of full-time use, then it came on very suddenly as he was teething, literally from one week to the next. 

I have been using a bit less water by setting the machine manually instead of using the auto function as I noticed it was filling pretty high - to make it rub together better and not dilute the powder too much, it does seem to be helping so maybe another strip the way I did it before and then do this from now on should fix it.


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## sheldonsmommy

https://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=18001030

This is a MSDS for Calgon, it is 50% sodium carbonate and some other stuff that I don't really recognize. 

RLR is pure sodium carbonate, whereas Arm and Hammer's washing soda is 85% sodium carbonate and 15% water. I emailed Cadie (the manufacturer of RLR) and they sent me the MSDS for it but I can't seem to post a PDF on my phone. 

I find it easier to remove build-up in hot or warm water, but also the poop gets washed out easier in warmer water as well.


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## Nikki_d72

Thanks for that, yes I just did a bit of digging and it appears that calgon is mainly soda ash, the stronger version of washing soda. I used soda ash light, so maybe it just wasn't quite strong enough or maybe it just needed repeated. I will have another pop using a bit more once the weather improves for drying the whole stash :)

Yes I do prefer to use warm too, for the same reasons.

Oh and what I've just read about RLR from several sources as well that it is ...wait for it... Washing Soda, so sorry Adie but saying washing soda doesn't work then recommending these instead is a bit daft


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