# Not Vaccinating



## Lightworker

Just wanted to ask the moms that decided not to vaccinate - what were your reasons? If your children are older, how has their health been? I would really love to know x


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## velvetina

Hi hun,

I have not vacd my youngest 2, my eldest who is 14yrs now was vacd up to nursery, then no more. He is autistic and whilst I don't think for us the mmr jab caused his autism, I will never know if it tipped him further onto the spectrum. I haven't done the others because nobody can tell me 100% my kids will not be affected, bearing in mind they could genetically be predisposed already. We decided not to take that risk.

Anyone here who reads the Autistm File quarterly magazine will know it carries a huge a mount of medical and research material and the information on these facts alone currently keep me to my decision. I am always interested in facts from either side, especially now I don't have the time to spend hours on reading like I used to. 

I would like to say that I am not opposed to vacs at all, I wish I could vax with confidence, but sadly I personally cannot. It is a topic I appreciate that can get very heated with very strong views either way, but it is important to stay open minded about and to try and find impartial facts on which to base your decision.

Health wise had no issues at all, I was slightly worried because ds goes to a special school in an area with high immigration from some very poor countries (healthwise) and we are aware there are more health issues in this area and school because of it. However he and his classmates have never been off with anything more than a bad cold, and ds2 also has had no issues. My gp is fully supportive too. My husband and all his siblings had measles when they were younger and mumps and scarlett fever and I was discussing this with my mil.


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## Drazic<3

We are vaccinating Melody with heavy hearts. I find it very, very hard to do but have read all I could get my hands on and we feel it's the best for her and us. The more people don't vax the more the risk of getting ill increases and we couldn't personally accept that for our family (nb, not a critism of anyone else, just our choice)


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## Lightworker

velvetina- thanks for ur post, its very informative. Just to clarify, did you refuse the MMR only, or all the preceding ones as well?


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## Janidog

As much as i don't like my LO having the injections, i don't think i could forgive myself it something went wrong cause i didn't get him vaccinated


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## Drazic<3

^
ditto


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## Nimyra

I'm delaying some of my LO's vaccines and declining a couple (like rotovirus - this virus just causes diarrhea and almost never leads to serious complications in breastfed infants). My reasons are that I think the US has gone insane with their current vaccine requirements (3 times as many as I had when I was a kid) and some of them really aren't necessary until older (like hep B which is a sexually transmitted disease). I also worry less about the possible negative consequences if my LO is older since her liver and immune system will be better developed. Since my LO had some liver issues, I think this is a reasonable compromise. I won't have my LO in nursery or school until vaccinated, so I don't think she'll be at risk and we plan on extended breastfeeding. My husband and I am also both current on all my vaccines so there isn't a risk of us bringing home an illness to my LO.

I have an autistic cousin who I believe was affected by the MMR vaccine (he actually won a legal suit so the evidence is very strong in his case). I believe my family is genetically predisposed to autism so I'm cautious. I *am* going to have LO get that one, but not at 12 months like they currently are doing. I am going to delay until she starts school.


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## velvetina

Hi hun, no youngest 2 had none at all. Eldest had his up to and including mmr. I was trying to source tetanus for ds2 on its own, not easy. Even 14 years ago the mmr debate was there, I remember having a conversation with my best friend about it, and I was coming across info re concerns over dpt jab as well, I remember it being very difficult. Didn't have internet either like now, so no way of researching it other than some paper articles I had seen. 

I am really interested in rates of autism in other countries that vax like we do. I don't get the theory that it is just better diagnosed. If so where are all the autistic adults who are unable to live independantly, and why is the demand over the past 10 years for autistic places at my son's school rocketed. We can put man on the moon and do so many amazing things but we can't find out what causes autism let alone cure it.


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## Janidog

velvetina said:


> Hi hun, no youngest 2 had none at all. Eldest had his up to and including mmr. I was trying to source tetanus for ds2 on its own, not easy. Even 14 years ago the mmr debate was there, I remember having a conversation with my best friend about it, and I was coming across info re concerns over dpt jab as well, I remember it being very difficult. Didn't have internet either like now, so no way of researching it other than some paper articles I had seen.
> 
> I am really interested in rates of autism in other countries that vax like we do. I don't get the theory that it is just better diagnosed. If so where are all the autistic adults who are unable to live independantly, and why is the demand over the past 10 years for autistic places at my son's school rocketed. We can put man on the moon and do so many amazing things but we can't find out what causes autism let alone cure it.

I think it depends on what level of autism children have, also what support they have as some parents who have lots of support means they can cope better with everyday living, compare to those with out support, and probably years ago no one really spoke of autism


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## nicholatmn

My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).


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## Nimyra

nicholatmn said:


> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).

I didn't know you were military too :flower: Would be very interested in hearing what schedule you are planning for Aeri if you are willing to PM me. I know that if we end up going overseas we won't have a choice about vaccinating Maya, but that probably wont be for several years (if at all) anyway.


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## velvetina

Janidog said:


> velvetina said:
> 
> 
> Hi hun, no youngest 2 had none at all. Eldest had his up to and including mmr. I was trying to source tetanus for ds2 on its own, not easy. Even 14 years ago the mmr debate was there, I remember having a conversation with my best friend about it, and I was coming across info re concerns over dpt jab as well, I remember it being very difficult. Didn't have internet either like now, so no way of researching it other than some paper articles I had seen.
> 
> I am really interested in rates of autism in other countries that vax like we do. I don't get the theory that it is just better diagnosed. If so where are all the autistic adults who are unable to live independantly, and why is the demand over the past 10 years for autistic places at my son's school rocketed. We can put man on the moon and do so many amazing things but we can't find out what causes autism let alone cure it.
> 
> I think it depends on what level of autism children have, also what support they have as some parents who have lots of support means they can cope better with everyday living, compare to those with out support, and probably years ago no one really spoke of autismClick to expand...

Yes Janidog, it does depend where on spectrum individual is, my circle is broad from those at the severe end to a really high functioning Asperger boy. Same with support, lots of people not having enough support depending on where they live. Be interesting to see in next ten years what adult levels are like. Talking to a specialist educational psychologist in autism and the staff at my son's school and they all agreed how disability has changed over the school life. From lots of physical disability which has reduced due to u/s and better awareness of heath and diet, and an increase to the more complex mental and behavioural disorders.


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## nicholatmn

Nimyra said:


> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).
> 
> I didn't know you were military too :flower: Would be very interested in hearing what schedule you are planning for Aeri if you are willing to PM me. I know that if we end up going overseas we won't have a choice about vaccinating Maya, but that probably wont be for several years (if at all) anyway.Click to expand...

Well, we're waiting until at least 6 months (I want 1 year now)... we wanted to not give her them, but apparently not all states will allow waivers. :( 
And we've decided on only the "mandatory" ones.


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## Sherileigh

Nimyra said:


> I'm delaying some of my LO's vaccines and declining a couple (*like rotovirus which just causes diarrhea*). My reasons are that I think the US has gone insane with their current vaccine requirements (3 times as many as I had when I was a kid) and some of them really aren't necessary until older (like hep B which is a sexually transmitted disease). I also worry less about the possible negative consequences if my LO is older since her liver and immune system will be better developed. Since my LO had some liver issues, I think this is a reasonable compromise. I won't have my LO in nursery or school until vaccinated, so I don't think she'll be at risk and we plan on extended breastfeeding. My husband and I am also both current on all my vaccines so there isn't a risk of us bringing home an illness to my LO.
> 
> I have an autistic cousin who I believe was affected by the MMR vaccine (he actually won a legal suit so the evidence is very strong in his case). I believe my family is genetically predisposed to autism so I'm cautious. I *am* going to have LO get that one, but not at 12 months like they currently are doing. I am going to delay until she starts school.

You should rephrase that hun, that's untrue as you say it like it's a fact! It's not at all, my son had his rotovirus and absolutely NO side effects.


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## Nimyra

LOL... sorry about that, I meant that the virus itself, not the vaccine, causes diarrhea.


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## Justagirlxx

nicholatmn said:


> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).

Why do you have to? My son is not vaxed and I feel very very strongly that he never will be.. but my DH just signed up for active army. Will they force me to vaccinate him and myself? I'm going to PM you also because I'm really upset about this now...


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## Justagirlxx

nicholatmn said:


> Nimyra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).
> 
> I didn't know you were military too :flower: Would be very interested in hearing what schedule you are planning for Aeri if you are willing to PM me. I know that if we end up going overseas we won't have a choice about vaccinating Maya, but that probably wont be for several years (if at all) anyway.Click to expand...
> 
> Well, we're waiting until at least 6 months (I want 1 year now)... we wanted to not give her them, but apparently not all states will allow waivers. :(
> And we've decided on only the "mandatory" ones.Click to expand...


Ohhh is it because you are trying to get your child into school? Because my DH only signed for 4 years so by the time he is out our son will only just be entering school and at that time we are planning on settling back here in good ol CT (Not hard to get waivers in this state at all)


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## nicholatmn

Justagirlxx said:


> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).
> 
> Why do you have to? My son is not vaxed and I feel very very strongly that he never will be.. but my DH just signed up for active army. Will they force me to vaccinate him and myself? I'm going to PM you also because I'm really upset about this now...Click to expand...

It's nothing horrible. They vaccinate when you get stationed overseas. And it's pretty difficult getting waivers from states who wont allow the "religion" part. :shrug:
I'm not the best one to ask advice on as I'm taking the easy way out and vaccinating her instead of fighting it. :(


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## Nimyra

Justagirlxx said:


> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).
> 
> Why do you have to? My son is not vaxed and I feel very very strongly that he never will be.. but my DH just signed up for active army. Will they force me to vaccinate him and myself? I'm going to PM you also because I'm really upset about this now...Click to expand...

I don't think the military requires families to be vaccinated. It's like schools and daycares, you can do an exemption in most states (all but mississippi and W. Virginia I think). The only thing is, the military might not let your family go overseas without vaccines, but I'm not sure about this, it may be that they allow exemptions too.


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## nicholatmn

Nimyra said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> My LO will be getting selective and delayed vaccinations only bc we have to (military).
> 
> Why do you have to? My son is not vaxed and I feel very very strongly that he never will be.. but my DH just signed up for active army. Will they force me to vaccinate him and myself? I'm going to PM you also because I'm really upset about this now...Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think the military requires families to be vaccinated. It's like schools and daycares, you can do an exemption in most states (all but mississippi and W. Virginia I think). The only thing is, the military might not let your family go overseas without vaccines, but I'm not sure about this, it may be that they allow exemptions too.Click to expand...

We were told there were no oversea waivers... but they could be fibbing. :shrug:


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## Justagirlxx

Thank you so much ladies. Honestly if they made me vaccinate him to go overseas I'd stay here in the US. I know that if your DH gets stationed overseas you have the option to stay here right? I am very very adament that my baby wont be vaccinated so I'll definitely fight it. I'll do anything in my power to get exemptions for him. And in the meantime I'll just pray my DH never gets stationed overseas. x


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## Nimyra

Justagirlxx said:


> Thank you so much ladies. Honestly if they made me vaccinate him to go overseas I'd stay here in the US. I know that if your DH gets stationed overseas you have the option to stay here right? I am very very adament that my baby wont be vaccinated so I'll definitely fight it. I'll do anything in my power to get exemptions for him. And in the meantime I'll just pray my DH never gets stationed overseas. x

Yes, you always have the option to stay here. Just don't move to W. Virginia or the other state that doesn't allow exemptions. And if you feel strongly, might be worth joining the Church of Christian Science.


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## Justagirlxx

Nimyra said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Thank you so much ladies. Honestly if they made me vaccinate him to go overseas I'd stay here in the US. I know that if your DH gets stationed overseas you have the option to stay here right? I am very very adament that my baby wont be vaccinated so I'll definitely fight it. I'll do anything in my power to get exemptions for him. And in the meantime I'll just pray my DH never gets stationed overseas. x
> 
> Yes, you always have the option to stay here. Just don't move to W. Virginia or the other state that doesn't allow exemptions. And if you feel strongly, might be worth joining the Church of Christian Science.Click to expand...

I will definitely look into it. I didn't think you needed any exemptions until your child reached school-aged? By then I'll be back in my hometown (hopefully)


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## Justagirlxx

Seems as though West Virginia is the only state that doesn't allow a philosophical or religious exemption. Is this true? I cant find any other states that don't.

EDIT: Mississippi and West Virginia are the only two states that do not allow a religious OR philosophical exemption. 

The following 18 states allow exemption to vaccination based on philosophical, personal or conscientiously held beliefs: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin. 

All of the other states allow a religious exemption.


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## Nimyra

laws are always changing so its hard to keep up with things. I thought there was another (Mississippi perhaps?). One thing to consider though... if you are going to be moving a lot, it is best to stick with a religious exemption (rather than philosophical) in case you move to a state that doesn't have that one later. I think its good to be consistent.


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## Justagirlxx

Yeah it is Mississippi. I'm not too worried about it anymore. My DH is leaving the Army before I'll even need to worry about that, and we are coming back home.


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## Kel127

Connor has all his vaccinations so far. We have been talking about starting to delay the rest of them, and spreading them out more. 
I found this great website that believes kids shouldn't start getting vaccinations until they are two and talking. It has a schedule for delayed vaccinations.


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## nicholatmn

Justagirlxx said:


> Yeah it is Mississippi. I'm not too worried about it anymore. My DH is leaving the Army before I'll even need to worry about that, and we are coming back home.

He just joined? Does he only want a few years? lol
DH says one as well, but now that he sees how it is, he's thinking of making it a career... maybe :haha:


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## Justagirlxx

nicholatmn said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Yeah it is Mississippi. I'm not too worried about it anymore. My DH is leaving the Army before I'll even need to worry about that, and we are coming back home.
> 
> He just joined? Does he only want a few years? lol
> DH says one as well, but now that he sees how it is, he's thinking of making it a career... maybe :haha:Click to expand...

Yes he just joined... only for a 4 year contract. (So JJ will be 5 when he's out) As it is now we are planning on it only being a one time thing in order for him to get IT training. I didn't want him to make a career out of it because I didn't want to put our son through moving around his whole life. But I shouldn't say with so much certainty that he wont re-up when his contracts up. I guess I'm hoping it will only be one time but you never know (we might just love army life). So in the mean-time I'll join that science church just in case! Lol

ETA How do YOU like army life? Do you think it'd be a good career choice for him? Another reason I don't know if it'd be the right career choice is that how would I have a career with moving around all the time? I'd have to change jobs whenever we get stationed somewhere else.


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## Aunty E

I only declined one - in some areas in the UK, babies are given the TB vaccination at their six week checkup. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind this early vaccination (I didn't have mine until I was thirteen and it's ruddy painful), so I declined it. I'll have her done before she starts school.


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## nicholatmn

Justagirlxx said:


> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Yeah it is Mississippi. I'm not too worried about it anymore. My DH is leaving the Army before I'll even need to worry about that, and we are coming back home.
> 
> He just joined? Does he only want a few years? lol
> DH says one as well, but now that he sees how it is, he's thinking of making it a career... maybe :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> Yes he just joined... only for a 4 year contract. (So JJ will be 5 when he's out) As it is now we are planning on it only being a one time thing in order for him to get IT training. I didn't want him to make a career out of it because I didn't want to put our son through moving around his whole life. But I shouldn't say with so much certainty that he wont re-up when his contracts up. I guess I'm hoping it will only be one time but you never know (we might just love army life). So in the mean-time I'll join that science church just in case! Lol
> 
> ETA How do YOU like army life? Do you think it'd be a good career choice for him? Another reason I don't know if it'd be the right career choice is that how would I have a career with moving around all the time? I'd have to change jobs whenever we get stationed somewhere else.Click to expand...

DH just joined in March :lol: He's still in AIT actually. We moved down here for his training as it's 6 months, then we are actually supposed to go to NY (he's trying to ask for an unaccompanied tour since he'll get deployed up there anyway-- rapid deployment). Him going for unaccompanied means Aeri and I go back home for a year on Army's costs :lol:

I don't like the hours so far. And how everything changes (like he's working today... got in trouble :haha:)

But I'm used to the "military ways" as I was in the Marines two years ago :)


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## mommyof3co

My older two were vaccinated for awhile. My oldest had all up until about 3yrs of age I believe, I would need to look back at his records to be sure. My middle had all but chicken pox and Hep A up until 2yrs. My youngest did have Hep B in the hospital because I was worn out and felt completely attacked into doing it. We didn't make the choice to stop because something happened to one of the kids, thankfully nothing ever did. I just decided to do more research on it and spent many many hours reading all I could. We decided it wasn't what was best for OUR kids. We looked at the risks of the vaccine vs the risks of actually contracting these diseases, the risks of them actually getting the disease, the ingredients in the vaccines and their risks and then what benefits there were to actually having the disease vs the vaccine. For us we felt it was safer for them not to have the vaccines. We are very happy and confident in the choice we made. Where a lot of people say "I couldn't forgive myself if they got what the vaccine 'protects' from" I look at it as I couldn't forgive myself for knowing and feeling the way I do and still vaccinating and something happening from the vaccine. My kids are now 3, 5 and 7 and have never had any ill effects from not vaccinating. In fact, DH and I had pertussis (whooping cough) not too long ago and it was pretty bad...none of them even got it. We do what we can to keep them as healthy as we can. Two of them attend public school now too, youngest is too young but he will too, with no issues.


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## Nimyra

To the OP -- sorry for hijacking your thread!



nicholatmn said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Yeah it is Mississippi. I'm not too worried about it anymore. My DH is leaving the Army before I'll even need to worry about that, and we are coming back home.
> 
> He just joined? Does he only want a few years? lol
> DH says one as well, but now that he sees how it is, he's thinking of making it a career... maybe :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> Yes he just joined... only for a 4 year contract. (So JJ will be 5 when he's out) As it is now we are planning on it only being a one time thing in order for him to get IT training. I didn't want him to make a career out of it because I didn't want to put our son through moving around his whole life. But I shouldn't say with so much certainty that he wont re-up when his contracts up. I guess I'm hoping it will only be one time but you never know (we might just love army life). So in the mean-time I'll join that science church just in case! Lol
> 
> ETA How do YOU like army life? Do you think it'd be a good career choice for him? Another reason I don't know if it'd be the right career choice is that how would I have a career with moving around all the time? I'd have to change jobs whenever we get stationed somewhere else.Click to expand...
> 
> DH just joined in March :lol: He's still in AIT actually. We moved down here for his training as it's 6 months, then we are actually supposed to go to NY (he's trying to ask for an unaccompanied tour since he'll get deployed up there anyway-- rapid deployment). Him going for unaccompanied means Aeri and I go back home for a year on Army's costs :lol:
> 
> I don't like the hours so far. And how everything changes (like he's working today... got in trouble :haha:)
> 
> But I'm used to the "military ways" as I was in the Marines two years ago :)Click to expand...

So cool that you were a Marine yourself! 

I've only been married a year and a half, so haven't suffered through too many moves yet, but I like that DH is in the Army. He has a great stable job, loves his work (although him being deployed sucks!!!), and we have great benefits. He's definitely career. I like that his career gives me the option to work or not work depending on how things go with my LO. That said, part of me is really looking forward to being able to settle down for good somewhere.


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## AlwaysPraying

I'm on the fense myself deciding on this. I will vaceine but am interested in he delayed method. As well doing all shots separately. 

I understand the mmr shot doesn't have the additive thought to cause autism anymore? Does anyone know more on this? 

And delayed methods. What does that actually do for them? I see it as their bodies being bigger and stronger to receive the vaccine without harm like when they are tiny. I'm not sure that actually makes much of a difference. So I flip flop if delaying doesn't really matter and I'm choosing to do it, then why wait?


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## fluffpuffin

Isla had all her vaccinations so far, but retrospectively I wish I could have delayed some, especially the first one. i think 8 weeks is very young. In Germany for example my little nephew wasn't vaccinated until he was 3 months. Isla coped much better with the last lot of jabs than the first two lots. She had the last lot at 20 weeks as they forgot to send an appointment through earlier. I think their immune systems are able to cope with the jabs better when they get older. If/when I have another baby I want to delay the jabs more.


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## velvetina

I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason, its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?


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## Lightworker

id also be interested in delaying my LO had her first lot yesterday and it was so traumatizing, but at the same terrified of her catching something i could have prevented- the only one i was anxious to have done ASAP was the BCG cuz im african and wary of TB - my DD1 had the MMR, and i was terrified, still am, not sure if ill let LO have it


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## Nimyra

velvetina said:


> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason, its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?

Well... to clarify. Anyone can refuse vaccinations, the issues arise when you want to send your LO to public (and most private) schools and daycare. It's an interesting issue in public health policy. You could argue that mandating vaccines for entry to schools its for the greater good. If you are going to home school and not go to college then there isn't any compulsion to be vaccinated. Many states do allow a personal "no thanks" exemption, but most don't.


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## Leesie

Having done a lot of my own research I still do not feel 100% comfy about vaccinations but we decided in the end to go ahead with them. We have, however, opted for a delayed vaccination schedule with the support of our paediatrician. 

We will be delaying the MMR until LO is at least 2 years old, if not older. 

I fully understand why some parents decide not to vax at all.


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## MrsRH

AlwaysPraying said:


> I'm on the fense myself deciding on this. I will vaceine but am interested in he delayed method. As well doing all shots separately.
> 
> *I understand the mmr shot doesn't have the additive thought to cause autism anymore? Does anyone know more on this? *And delayed methods. What does that actually do for them? I see it as their bodies being bigger and stronger to receive the vaccine without harm like when they are tiny. I'm not sure that actually makes much of a difference. So I flip flop if delaying doesn't really matter and I'm choosing to do it, then why wait?

the MMR vaccination or it's additives do not cause autism.

The doctor who wrote the research paper on this was recently stuck off because of this 'hoax'
There was absolutely no evidence for this.
The reason some people feel MMR is a trigger to autism is that the signs of autistic behaviour start at around the same time as the vaccien is given.

Also 10-20 years ago, autism was not really diagnosed; it is only recently that autism is being recognised and diagnosed by specialists.

I am all for parents making their own decision about vaccinations but as long as they are weighing up the pros and cons from MEDICAL EVIDENCE not rumours

xxx


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## Justagirlxx

velvetina said:


> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason, its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?

Yes here in our country unfortunately in order to enroll our children in the school system in some states we have to claim a religious exemption! There are states that allow for a philosophical exemption but I do not currently live in one of those states. I am actually joining an activist group that is pushing for philosophical exemptions in ALL states, because I believe it is our human right to refuse medical care for ourselves and our children!


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## SAmummy

All my kids have had their vaccines. We live in South Africa and there are still things like measles, mumps etc. which go around. DH had mumps last year and it can make you sterile. I would have felt so guilty if one of my boys had got it and had long term implications because I chose not to vaccinate. The trouble is even if you live in a first world context, you never know where your kids may live one day and these disease can have really bad implications even for adults. We have seen measles and mumps on the increase in recent years because many kids aren't being vaccinated. I don't know any mums who have had kids negatively affected by the vaccine beside perhaps feeling a bit offish for a day or two. I'm not judging anyone who chooses not to vaccinate, but those are my reasons for vaccinating. :flower:


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## melorablack

Aunty E said:


> I only declined one - in some areas in the UK, babies are given the TB vaccination at their six week checkup. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind this early vaccination (I didn't have mine until I was thirteen and it's ruddy painful), so I declined it. I'll have her done before she starts school.

I thought they had stopped the TB vaccine? I know for teenagers they stopped it somewhere in the last 5 years or so (me na dmy sister had it but my brother didn't).

Edit: The nhs website says the TB vaccine is only given to high risk groups now...as you said I'd hate for Arthur to have to have it so young - most painful jab I ever had lol!


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## Lu28

melorablack said:


> Aunty E said:
> 
> 
> I only declined one - in some areas in the UK, babies are given the TB vaccination at their six week checkup. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind this early vaccination (I didn't have mine until I was thirteen and it's ruddy painful), so I declined it. I'll have her done before she starts school.
> 
> I thought they had stopped the TB vaccine? I know for teenagers they stopped it somewhere in the last 5 years or so (me na dmy sister had it but my brother didn't).
> 
> Edit: The nhs website says the TB vaccine is only given to high risk groups now...as you said I'd hate for Arthur to have to have it so young - most painful jab I ever had lol!Click to expand...

Just with regard to the TB vaccine, Aisling was born in Ireland and it's given as standard to newborns there due to an outbreak years ago. Aisling had it, slept through the entire thing and showed no signs of being distressed over it so I wouldn't choose not to give it if your main reason is pain in having it done :flower:


----------



## Pookie 73

AlwaysPraying said:


> I'm on the fense myself deciding on this. I will vaceine but am interested in he delayed method. As well doing all shots separately.
> 
> I understand the mmr shot doesn't have the additive thought to cause autism anymore? Does anyone know more on this?
> 
> And delayed methods. What does that actually do for them? I see it as their bodies being bigger and stronger to receive the vaccine without harm like when they are tiny. I'm not sure that actually makes much of a difference. So I flip flop if delaying doesn't really matter and I'm choosing to do it, then why wait?

Hi

This link may clear up some issues surrounding the MMR vaccine for you :flower:

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1808956.stm


----------



## eddjanuary10

melorablack said:


> Aunty E said:
> 
> 
> I only declined one - in some areas in the UK, babies are given the TB vaccination at their six week checkup. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind this early vaccination (I didn't have mine until I was thirteen and it's ruddy painful), so I declined it. I'll have her done before she starts school.
> 
> I thought they had stopped the TB vaccine? I know for teenagers they stopped it somewhere in the last 5 years or so (me na dmy sister had it but my brother didn't).
> 
> Edit: The nhs website says the TB vaccine is only given to high risk groups now...as you said I'd hate for Arthur to have to have it so young - most painful jab I ever had lol!Click to expand...

i was happy for Ihsan to have the TB vaccine as although we personally won't be going to visit any high risk countries we do have relatives who visit us on occasion and also my husband travels alot with work so you never know who you might meet on your travels and where in the world they have just been. My Dad had TB a few years ago and he has lived all his life in the U.K!He was extremely ill and for us it wasn't a difficult decision to make for Ihsan to have it plus he barely flinched and showed no after ill affects either.

We have decided he will not be having the MMR jag at least not until he is older.

:flower:


----------



## velvetina

I personally don't think we will every know the whole truth behind the whole Andrew Wakefield/MMr debacle, there had to be damage limitation, it was handled appallingly, but that is a whole other debate.

I personally didn't go on rumours or maybe's with my decision. I look at my handsome wonderful son and hope to God my decision to vax him didn't cause him to be autistic and nobody can tell me 100% it didn't. So when I get to ds2, there is no decision to be made, it has already been made for me. Until we know the cause this debate will rage on, I try and stay impartial and see the good in vax in general, but my passion is such I would give my life tomorrow to free my son of autism. x


----------



## Nimyra

There is a separate issue of mercury in the MMR which was different from the Wakefield claims. That's the additive that is no longer in the vaccines (in high quantities anyway - its still in some but in much lower, safer quantities). The link between mercury and autism *was* quite well established. My cousin was involved in a lawsuit regarding this. Not everything is rumors.


----------



## SKATERBUN

^ yes but the other additives which are a worry which are still used as preservatives are formaldhyde and aluminium. Google these two words or Wiki them and this is why I am being cautious about vacines. 

Anyway I'm not saying never, but had talks with Doctor about a delay in vacines until LO starts nursery. Intensive 7 in one jabs at 8 weeks, 12, and 16 is too young in my opinion.


----------



## Mercy2

/i used to practice as a Public Health Nurse in Hounslow (london) and the PCT gave the Neonatal BCG (TB jab) as standard at birth unless the mother declined. It was due to the high number of people moving to the area directly from high risk areas where TB is still prevailent! 

For me, I have chosen to give both my little ones all their vaccinations. While Training to be a nurse, I was aware of a huge rise in cases of measles and mumps following the "link to autism" scare relating to the MMR, And I hve to say, some of the incredibly severe (and even fatal) cases of measles i have seen in fairly young babies during my time nursing, I was convinced that the benifits outweighed the "risks" where the vaccinations are concerned. 

Its a huge personal choice, as obviously as a mummy you act on behalf of your little one. I think people have very valid reasons for declining vaccines or delaynig them, however for me it was a choice that i felt was best x


----------



## summer rain

In most London boroughs they give the BCG to all babies; unless declined. Personally I have always declined it despite being given agro and guilt tripping from the health visitor; it only protects them for a few years (hence it no longer being given to teenagers) and only protects against a couple of types of TB. Furthermore I know quite a few babies who had serious problems from the scar site; including bone abscesses and permanent problems with pain or mobility in that arm. The other vaccine I have a serious issue with is the 5-in-1 (given at 2, 3 and 4 months) because both my boys that had it were made extremely ill by it, with lasting effects. From the day they had the first dose of the vaccine they stopped gaining weight (and even lost weight) and developed various other health problems until the age of 7-8 months including severe eczema, digestive problems etc; my middle son also developed a lifethreatening allergy to dairy and eggs; and the vaccine does include albumin which is an egg protein. My middle son born on the 98th percentile in everything; was the same size of my friends baby born prematurely at 31 weeks, at the age of 7 months. The paediatricians at the hospital said he was not absorbing any fats or nutrients from his food and he was very poorly. I have researched and all of the illnesses this vaccine prevents are rare in babies at least under 5 months old; and most of them before a year old. So I will be delaying this vaccine until my new baby is at least 4 or 5 months. I know other parents whose LOs had exactly the same reaction to this vaccine; and they have not had it at all for any younger children.


----------



## melorablack

eddjanuary10 said:


> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aunty E said:
> 
> 
> I only declined one - in some areas in the UK, babies are given the TB vaccination at their six week checkup. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind this early vaccination (I didn't have mine until I was thirteen and it's ruddy painful), so I declined it. I'll have her done before she starts school.
> 
> I thought they had stopped the TB vaccine? I know for teenagers they stopped it somewhere in the last 5 years or so (me na dmy sister had it but my brother didn't).
> 
> Edit: The nhs website says the TB vaccine is only given to high risk groups now...as you said I'd hate for Arthur to have to have it so young - most painful jab I ever had lol!Click to expand...
> 
> i was happy for Ihsan to have the TB vaccine as although we personally won't be going to visit any high risk countries we do have relatives who visit us on occasion and also my husband travels alot with work so you never know who you might meet on your travels and where in the world they have just been. My Dad had TB a few years ago and he has lived all his life in the U.K!He was extremely ill and for us it wasn't a difficult decision to make for Ihsan to have it plus he barely flinched and showed no after ill affects either.
> 
> :flower:Click to expand...

That's really interesting - the TB vaccine is the same as the BCG isn't it? Did your baby not have a scar on their arm afterwards? You can still see mine and my sister's got infected so hers is worse! I wonder do they do a different type of vaccine for babies then?


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## NeyNey

I was very worried to vaccinate, and wondered if it was the right thing to do...

Then I watched a video on a baby with whooping cough and it completely turned me around. To think that we can avoid that with a simple injection - put my mind at ease about vaccinating.

Drs have been vaccinating for decades....There is a reason we do this, no one likes jabbing a needle into a child...but it's what saves children from minor and very preventable diseases.


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## aob1013

There's a reason for vaccinations, that's why Leni is having all of them. My fiance had whooping cough as a baby, his Mum had been delaying the vaccines or something. He got it, nearly died and was in hospital for 6 months. She still regrets it to this day.

Vaccinations not only protect your child, but also the community. Unfortunately, because people are deciding not to vaccinate their children, those horrible diseases are on the increase.


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## PepsiChic

i had whooping cough as a baby and was in itensive care for 5 months and almost died. my son will be vaccinated i would not want to go through what my poor parents did.


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## Lightworker

in my experience the BCG vaccine- immunity is for life- im 25 and I was immunized at birth and its still valid, so are my parents x


----------



## Janidog

velvetina said:


> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. * I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason,* its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?

And what about the human rights for the other children???? Your child may infect another child that has a weaker immune system, that child could fall seriously ill or die.


----------



## PepsiChic

Janidog said:


> velvetina said:
> 
> 
> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. * I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason,* its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?
> 
> And what about the human rights for the other children???? Your child may infect another child that has a weaker immune system, that child could fall seriously ill or die.Click to expand...

not if that child is immunized....


----------



## Janidog

PepsiChic said:


> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> velvetina said:
> 
> 
> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. * I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason,* its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?
> 
> And what about the human rights for the other children???? Your child may infect another child that has a weaker immune system, that child could fall seriously ill or die.Click to expand...
> 
> *not if that child is immunized....*Click to expand...

Thats ok then, at least my child won't die :rolleyes:


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Immunisations are there for a reason. They save lives fact. I am a student nurse and I had to have my BCG the other day. I didn't have it in school because they stopped doing it as routine a year before I was due to have it. I was talking to the TB nurse and she said since the vaccination has stopped being given to school children cases of it have slowly risen.

The same will happen with all the other things we vaccinate if parents continue to ignore medical advice. The rates of certain dieases (life threating ones) will start to rise and we will have an epidemic on our hands. We vaccinate children to protect them, not hurt them. Aidan has had all his vaccinations because I would rather him be in pain for a few seconds and 'chemicals' put into his body. Rather than hims suffer 10 x more with wooping cough or meseals and be at risk of him being serverly affected by the disease for the rest of his life or die
xx


----------



## Lightworker

I was just about to say the same- also, when they say you are putting the community at risk by not vaxing, surely the only person at risk is your child (and other unvaxed children), as the rest of community is vaxed- or am I mistaken?


----------



## PeaceLoveBaby

Ill be doing it..as samommy said..here in south africa, most of the diseases are still going around.


----------



## PepsiChic

Janidog said:


> PepsiChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> velvetina said:
> 
> 
> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. * I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason,* its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?
> 
> And what about the human rights for the other children???? Your child may infect another child that has a weaker immune system, that child could fall seriously ill or die.Click to expand...
> 
> *not if that child is immunized....*Click to expand...
> 
> Thats ok then, at least my child won't die :rolleyes:Click to expand...

right, so the parents who dont immuinze their own child are the ones at risk, and by not vaccinating them, they KNOW that they are putting their child at risk. 
its never ok a child should die, so i feel quite hurt by your comment. Im not implying it ever ok to allow a child to die. but the parents that dont vaccinate are surely the ones taking the chance with their childs life, the children who are vacinnated are less likely to get something from those who arent.


----------



## Janidog

PepsiChic said:


> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PepsiChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> velvetina said:
> 
> 
> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. * I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason,* its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?
> 
> And what about the human rights for the other children???? Your child may infect another child that has a weaker immune system, that child could fall seriously ill or die.Click to expand...
> 
> *not if that child is immunized....*Click to expand...
> 
> Thats ok then, at least my child won't die :rolleyes:Click to expand...
> 
> right,* so the parents who dont immuinze their own child are the ones at risk, and by not vaccinating them, they KNOW that they are putting their child at risk. *
> its never ok a child should die, so i feel quite hurt by your comment. Im not implying it ever ok to allow a child to die. but the parents that dont vaccinate are surely the ones taking the chance with their childs life, the children who are vacinnated are less likely to get something from those who arent.Click to expand...

Yes they are putting their child at risk and others - simples

My mother had to give birth to her dead baby due to her not ever being vaccinated!! So its something that i feel very strongly about.


----------



## PepsiChic

Janidog said:


> Yes they are putting their child at risk and others - simples
> 
> My mother had to give birth to her dead baby due to her not ever being vaccinated!! So its something that i feel very strongly about.

who are the "others", thats my point, the others are children also not vaccinated because of their parents choice. again they took the risk with their childrens life. unfair? to me yes, i agree children should be vaccinated. but those who are vaccinated arent at risk from those who arent.


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## mommyof3co

Like I said earlier in the thread, we don't vaccinate, we are fully aware of the risks we are taking. I personally believe diseases have normal 'life cycles' where they die down some on their own and then rise again on their own. Even communities with very high vaccination rates have that happen too it's not unvaccinated kids 'causing' it. BUT even if it was solely caused by the vaccination rates it wouldn't change my mind. It might sound very selfish but my child matters the most to me, of course I take other kids into consideration but if I went and vaccinated my kids knowing what I do and feeling in my heart the way I do about vaccines and their risks IMO that would be wrong. It would be going against everything I feel and going against my instinct to protect my kids. I don't feel they are safe enough for my kids, I think they are riskier than going without and so for me to do that I would be putting my kids in danger...in my mind. I would never ask another parent to put my child above their own and go against that instinct. Do something they felt was actually putting their child in danger to possibly offer some benefit to my child. 

The decline in these diseases isn't only from vaccines, vaccines have their place I'm not completely against them, just against them for my kids, if they were safer I would do them, but I feel it's every parent's choice to make what they think is best for their kids. But there used to be (might still be somewhere) on the CDC's site a bunch of charts showing the decline in these diseases before the vaccines were introduced...HUGE declines...because of sanitation, nutrition and just medical advances in treating these diseases when people got them. Obviously vaccines aren't 100% so in theory, yes IF the rises in these diseases was solely based on more unvaccinated kids my kids might possibly be putting others at risk, but I really don't believe that at all.


----------



## ricschick

huggermomof2 said:


> I was just about to say the same- also, when they say you are putting the community at risk by not vaxing, surely the only person at risk is your child (and other unvaxed children), as the rest of community is vaxed- or am I mistaken?

new born babies will be at risk wont they, and if people still continue to choose not to vax the rate of these illnesses will continue to increase.


----------



## Lu28

ricschick said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> I was just about to say the same- also, when they say you are putting the community at risk by not vaxing, surely the only person at risk is your child (and other unvaxed children), as the rest of community is vaxed- or am I mistaken?
> 
> new born babies will be at risk wont they, and if people still continue to choose not to vax the rate of these illnesses will continue to increase.Click to expand...

This is my main worry with disease rates rising due to non vaccination. Babies don't get MMR until 12 months or older (we delayed to 15 months) and that's quite a long time to be unvaccinated if the disease rate rises significantly. 

I do respect others in their choice not to vaccinate, what I don't agree with is people choosing not to vaccinate with herd immunity being the main reason - they're not convinced in their decision but choose not to vaccinate because chances are the disease won't ever effect them - that's not likely to continue to be the case.


----------



## Nimyra

I think one could make a solid case for keeping newborn babies away from lots of people. I also think one could make a solid case for vaccinating adults. I don't see why little babies and small children should carry the burden of the risks of vaccines.


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## mrsessex

Both our boys had the MMR 

My eldest had the MMR at the time when there was a MASSIVE ho ha in the media about Autism, this was in 2000. Needless to say we ignored it

Both my boys have been very well children, hardly catch anything that goes about, neither have asthma/allergies to a thing... however they both went to private nurseries from very young and built up a strong immunity im sure from there

I dont believe the vaccine cause any harm and WILL go down the same road with my next baby


----------



## NG09

JMO but I think it is MAD not to vaccinate when the vaccines are readily available. God forbid something happened to my child after his injections, it would be truly awful, but for him to die of something that could have been prevented..... crazy!


----------



## Natasha2605

Summer's had all her vaccinations so far and the next one is her MMR I think? How big a link is it to autism? Does anyone have any links for me to nose at?I've never really understood those who don't vaccinate unless for medical reasons,i.e my 9 yr old sister. Her blood cell counts don't add up or something like that so she's not allowed them xx


----------



## aob1013

There is absolutely no link between autism and the MMR.


----------



## velvetina

Janidog said:


> velvetina said:
> 
> 
> I think it is shocking for some of you US ladies that you have to justify or apply for a reason not to vaccinate. * I am surprised no one has said it was against "human rights" as a reason,* its used for everything else!!! It makes me cross you have to claim religious reasons as an excuse because you are simply not allowed to say no thanks. Is that the case?
> 
> And what about the human rights for the other children???? Your child may infect another child that has a weaker immune system, that child could fall seriously ill or die.Click to expand...

Not a great position to be in is it? I can't quote stats because I don't know them, but I would say at this current time there are more children whose human rights are ignored and violated and they are killed due to neglect/abuse in their own home. Does that make it ok then? No it doesn't.

My dh and all 5 siblings have had mumps/measles/whooping cough and scarlett fever (he is an old git ). No, they were not nice at all. Does that make it ok? No, but what do I do? For me personally I live and so does my son with a disorder that will debilitate him for life, beyond my life, and into a strangers care. How does that compare with the unknown risk of putting someone else at risk? I don't think you can compare it, both are devasting in their own right.

This debate will run and run until a cause of autism is actually found and the possibility of a link with vax and any of the ingrediants can be dispelled or not.

I wish with all my heart I had the luxury of not having to question and doubt, I don't have the time any more to read research papers and articles, work through fogs of info which is biased both ways. My time is spent now supporting him, my other 2 and my mum who has dementia, that really is plenty.


----------



## Natasha2605

aob1013 said:


> There is absolutely no link between autism and the MMR.

Hm Thanks, I'm sure my HV said at her last jag that she wouldn't need another one until the MMR at one year but that I should maybe read up on it because of potential links to autism . :wacko: I just wondered xx


----------



## RainbowDrop_x

aob1013 said:


> There is absolutely no link between autism and the MMR.

^^WSS...My niece has autism and she didn't have the MMR.


----------



## MrsGlitz

I simply couldn't live with myself if Harry caught something that he wouldn't have done had he been vaccinated. Some of the things that we vaccinate against have horrible side effects even if they don't cause death. I found it upsetting enough to watch Harry with Colic (I'm sure I sobbed more than he did!).


----------



## bbyno1

Aliyah has had all of her's & will continue to do so. 
I would feel too guilty knowing they are avliable and just not giving them to her,god forbid something did happen i would never be able to sleep at night,never be able to forgive myself.
There may be risks as some of you say but i feel it is a bigger risk not giving her the vaccinations but that is just my opinion x


----------



## cherryglitter

NG09 said:


> JMO but I think it is MAD not to vaccinate when the vaccines are readily available. God forbid something happened to my child after his injections, it would be truly awful, but for him to die of something that could have been prevented..... crazy!

:thumbup: That is how I feel too.


----------



## annawrigley

Noah has had all of his because tbh i wasnt aware delaying/refusing was an option! I think if i'd known i would have delayed. But whats done is done.

And im not sure if this really bears any relevance to anything as the autism/MMR link was disproved(?) but my elder brother had the MMR jab, and has autism. Myself and my younger brother didnt have it and dont have any difficulties. But then again like the lady with the autistic son, we dont 100% know if the jab caused it do we? :shrug:


----------



## cabaretmum2b

There is no link between autism and the MMR. My brother was diagnosed with autism shortly before his MMR, and we were SO worried that the MMR had caused it. But the research this "link" is based on is completely biased. Then people started quoting it without realising that the original research was BS. We did a huge amount of research, but the fact is that autism has been around since before the MMR vaccine, and that my brother was probably autistic since birth. (In fact, if anyone's interested, a lot of people think that autistic children are born traumatically, as they may not have the same birthing instincts as others, but that's not the point). 
Anyway, my point is that measles, mumps and rubella are serious. Autism is serious, too, but being at risk of getting those illnesses won't make you any less likely to be autistic.


----------



## mrsthomas623

huggermomof2 said:


> I was just about to say the same- also, when they say you are putting the community at risk by not vaxing, surely the only person at risk is your child (and other unvaxed children), as the rest of community is vaxed- or am I mistaken?

I am not sure if this has been answered yet but...

The people at risk are unvaxed children and babies that are too young to receive the vaccination. So if an unvaxed child contracts measles (which is contagious before its detected i think) and is around a 6 month old baby, that baby is going to be very ill and possibly die. :nope:

I think every mother has the right to choose but they need to accept responsibility for anything that may happen just as mom's who vaccinate do.


----------



## RinnaRoo

LOs here cant start school with out an up to date vaccine card.


----------



## SAmummy

PeaceLoveBaby said:


> Ill be doing it..as samommy said..here in south africa, most of the diseases are still going around.

Yay another South African :happydance:


----------



## SAmummy

Can anyone tell me what the actual "risks" of the vaccines are (beside the whole MMR debate) because I don't know of anyone who's child had a problem with a vaccine and certainly not any long term effects. I just don't understand how a vaccine can be considered a greater risk than some of these diseases which can cause blindness, sterility, birth defects, and the list goes on. 

Also if diseases would die out on their own due to medical advances as someone previously posted, why is measles on the increase in first world countries since many people have started dropping the MMR jad due to the autism scare ? In SA we still get polio cases because many kids are not vaccinated. The stats are simple ... the more kids that have the vac, the less polio that goes around yet there are not necessarily great changes in health care or hygene standards so I think its a bit of a stretch to say its due to those things that these diseases have died out as a pose to because of the vaccines. 

Again, I am not against people choosing not to vaccinate. These are just some questions I have.


----------



## louandivy

ricschick said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> I was just about to say the same- also, when they say you are putting the community at risk by not vaxing, surely the only person at risk is your child (and other unvaxed children), as the rest of community is vaxed- or am I mistaken?
> 
> new born babies will be at risk wont they, and if people still continue to choose not to vax the rate of these illnesses will continue to increase.Click to expand...

I grew up in a very middle class area in London that had a sudden outbreak of TB a few years ago because so many mothers were choosing not to vaccinate.


----------



## Lightworker

Doh! I forgot about newborn children, but I suppose you could keep unvaxed children away till the LOs were vaxed? or maybe thats not practical. Im also curious to know- has anyone given their children the MMR but declined the booster at 4yrs? Im trying to make this decision- is it possible(i.e will docs sign off) to test for immunity, then vax/not vax as appropriate?


----------



## babyblog

melorablack said:


> Aunty E said:
> 
> 
> I only declined one - in some areas in the UK, babies are given the TB vaccination at their six week checkup. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind this early vaccination (I didn't have mine until I was thirteen and it's ruddy painful), so I declined it. I'll have her done before she starts school.
> 
> I thought they had stopped the TB vaccine? I know for teenagers they stopped it somewhere in the last 5 years or so (me na dmy sister had it but my brother didn't).
> 
> Edit: The nhs website says the TB vaccine is only given to high risk groups now...as you said I'd hate for Arthur to have to have it so young - most painful jab I ever had lol!Click to expand...


It depends whether you live in a high risk area or not. We live near Heathrow and my LO had his BCG the day after he was born.


----------



## babyblog

You can still see his scar in my profile piccy ;(


----------



## Blah11

Sorry but I'm in the group who thinks its a little bit selfish to not vaccinate your child. Yes, it's your choice and it's your kid but measels are on the rise again because people aren't vaccinating. I don't want my newborn getting a disease that could potentially kill him because someone didn't give their kid the jab.

Amelie is upto date with her vaccinations.. She's fine and other than a VERY mild case of the measels (cold and rash) from her MMR she's had no reactions.


----------



## kissikiss

I'm not getting into the whole debate about this as it's all moot, everyone has opinions on the matter.

However, as a medical biologist doing an honours degree, I have done presentations on the MMR vaccine and I can provide anyone who wants with the actual medical journal where MMR was supposedly linked to autism (Wakefield et al). This man, has been struck off the medical register in 2010, so you can see how much the medical community considered what he did as a doctor to be completely reckless and uncalled for. I can then provide you with numerous other medical journals, peer reviewed, that can disprove this paper. The papers are quite lingo heavy, but just PM me if you are interested. 

There are reasons we vaccinate, it saves lives.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

There is no link at all between the MMR and austim. The link the doctor found was utter trash, sorry but it was.

Unvaxed children could come into contact with newborns, children who have certian illnesses that affect their immune system there are so many people un vaxed children could affect.

xx


----------



## nicholatmn

I thought this thread was about why we chose not to? Not why we should? :(


----------



## Blah11

^ bit pedantic really...


----------



## Aunty E

I should probably point out that we knew we were moving out of said high risk area and into a low risk area before Imogen was four months old, I never went to any mother and baby groups, in fact I don't think Imogen met another baby until she was six months old.


----------



## nicholatmn

Blah11 said:


> ^ bit pedantic really...

It's just that we have a thread talking about why we chose what we did, then loads of Moms come on and say they vaccinated because the benefits outweighed the risks. :shrug: It just seems complete opposite of what the OP asked? 







:flower:


----------



## kissikiss

nicholatmn said:


> It's just that we have a thread talking about why we chose what we did, then loads of Moms come on and say they vaccinated because the benefits outweighed the risks. :shrug: It just seems complete opposite of what the OP asked?
> 
> :flower:

I can tell you the reason I posted why I did, on Page 8 there was a woman asking specifically about the link the MMR vaccine had to autism, and I wanted her to know that the 'link' was complete scaremongering, that the doctor that wrote the paper was struck off the register, and I wanted her (and others) to know that I have the actual papers if they wanted to make an informed choice on the matter.

Normally I wouldn't post on a thread like this (just like BF vs. FF, etc) because it all gets ugly, and yeah, it did deviate from what the OP asked, but if anyone is undecided, I think it's really important that they get the facts before hearing nonsense and taking that as fact. xx


----------



## ricschick

Nimyra said:


> I think one could make a solid case for keeping newborn babies away from lots of people. I also think one could make a solid case for vaccinating adults. I don't see why little babies and small children should carry the burden of the risks of vaccines.

to stop them catching a disease! it only takes 1 person to pass something on to your baby.


----------



## venusrockstar

I will be vaccinating my child because I won't take any risks of my child dying from any of these illnesses when they can be easily prevented. They also need an up to date immunization record in order to attend schools here.


----------



## nightkd

We're not sure if we're delaying or just outright not vaxxing - my daughter is almost 5 months now and has had no vaccines up to this point.

I have various reasons, but the most important ones are the content of the vaccines (the additives, preservatives etc - they (at least most) don't contain Mercury anymore, but they have replaced it with Aluminium...which is a neurotoxin) I would recommend Dr Sears Vaccine Book to compare the ingredients/weigh up the pros and cons...he's more pro vax but the book does NOT try to push you either way, it just provides you with the info you need to make your own decision.

How many vaccines they give at one time - if we get them we will be spacing them out well.

Some vaccines have been proven to create more risk of the child catching the disease - remember VACCINE IS NOT NECESSARILY IMMUNITY - and some vaccines have been proven in studies to increase the risk of the child catching the disease with more severity than those unvaxxed.

My daughter is perfect and I do not want to introduce harmful things into her body, particularly while she's so young. I'm terrified she will have an allergic reaction to SOMETHING in the vaccine and vaccines can cause SERIOUS reactions - possibly crippling or killing her. Yes, some diseases can do that, but she only MIGHT catch certain illnesses and she only MIGHT get seriously ill from it, whereas if she is going to have a reaction to a vaccine and we give her one, it is a certainty! Illnesses are treatable and she is not necessarily going to catch one - if I choose to vaccinate her and she reacts, there's very little we can do and it would be my fault.

She has never been ill so far. :)

If Oklahoma schools require certain vaccines and we have chosen not to get them, I will be homeschooling my daughter. :)

P.S Just reading the last page and there seems to be a lot of talk about the link to Autism... I have never been REALLY worried about that issue (can do research on that....can't really research on whether MY daughter will have an allergic reaction to something....)....I am more concerned about my daughter having a serious reaction to the vaccines and being exposed to high levels of neurotoxins etc.

Also, something else I was reading while researching to make my decision - you can get tests done on your child to see how well they might take a vaccine (liver function perhaps?). AND boosters are not necessarily...necessary!! Some children build up an immunity from the first shot and do not require the boosters (no point exposing your child more for no reason :)) so you can get immunity tests done to see if they have already built up an immunity before having a booster done.


----------



## nightkd

Oh, also one little point... Pertussis seems to be rife among vaccinated AND non vaccinated children (this is one of those that people claim hits vaccinated children more often and harder) and it is NOT because children are not getting vaccinated - it's because ADULTS are not getting the boosters. Adults pass it onto children more frequently than anything & not many people realise that you are not just vaccinated for Pertussis as a child and done...you have to get boosters as the vaccine immunity doesn't last very long. If it comes down to it I have discussed getting the booster shot with my husband, so WE have the vaccine to protect our daughter, rather than exposing her to it. :) I'd still want to get us tested for immunity before we have the booster, as mentioned above.


----------



## polo_princess

For us, the only vaccine that i had an issue with was the MMR, which we delayed until 17 months as opposed to the 12 months it is scheduled at.

Only other one that isnt routine that came into play was Swine Flu, which i 110% declined.


----------



## aob1013

venusrockstar said:


> I will be vaccinating my child because I won't take any risks of my child dying from any of these illnesses when they can be easily prevented. *They also need an up to date immunization record in order to attend schools here*.

Same here, i hope that rules comes into play EVERYWHERE.


----------



## mommyof3co

That is actually the rule here but they do allow exemptions depending on your state, which is what we do. Even if I did vaccinate I would sure hope they wouldn't make it completely mandatory....I don't think the government should be demanding what we do with our kids. As I said earlier I feel it's dangerous to them and I sure wouldn't want someone I have no choice in doing what I feel is best for my kids.


----------



## emsiee

Vaccinated both my kids when they were due. Never wouldnt tbh.

Only one i declined was the Swine flu for myself.


----------



## venusrockstar

aob1013 said:


> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> I will be vaccinating my child because I won't take any risks of my child dying from any of these illnesses when they can be easily prevented. *They also need an up to date immunization record in order to attend schools here*.
> 
> Same here, i hope that rules comes into play EVERYWHERE.Click to expand...

I agree. I don't see where these excemptions should be allowed considering I don't want my child exposed to something an unvaccinated child may have been in contact with.


----------



## mommyof3co

venusrockstar said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> I will be vaccinating my child because I won't take any risks of my child dying from any of these illnesses when they can be easily prevented. *They also need an up to date immunization record in order to attend schools here*.
> 
> Same here, i hope that rules comes into play EVERYWHERE.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree. I don't see where these excemptions should be allowed considering I don't want my child exposed to something an unvaccinated child may have been in contact with.Click to expand...

You do realize that vaccinated kids can very easily come into contact with something (not involving an unvaccinated child at all) and spread it among vaccinated kids right? They aren't 100% and even in communities with extremely high vaccination rates this still happens. Also some vaccines shed so having a newly vaccinated child around an unvaccinated one (by choice) or a newborn (can't because of age) can be dangerous to them too? It goes both ways. It's not like ours kids (unvaccinated kids) are diseased or something lol. 

Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...


----------



## venusrockstar

I know the vaccines aren't 100% effective, but for me the benefits of getting the shots far outweigh the risks of not getting one. I just feel that if it is a requirement for certain schools, people should abide by those rules or seek a school that allows unvaccinated children without having to get special treatment. I really have no qualms otherwise.


----------



## louandivy

mommyof3co said:


> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> I will be vaccinating my child because I won't take any risks of my child dying from any of these illnesses when they can be easily prevented. *They also need an up to date immunization record in order to attend schools here*.
> 
> Same here, i hope that rules comes into play EVERYWHERE.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree. I don't see where these excemptions should be allowed considering I don't want my child exposed to something an unvaccinated child may have been in contact with.Click to expand...
> 
> You do realize that vaccinated kids can very easily come into contact with something (not involving an unvaccinated child at all) and spread it among vaccinated kids right? They aren't 100% and even in communities with extremely high vaccination rates this still happens. Also some vaccines shed so having a newly vaccinated child around an unvaccinated one (by choice) or a newborn (can't because of age) can be dangerous to them too? It goes both ways. It's not like ours kids (unvaccinated kids) are diseased or something lol.
> 
> *Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...*Click to expand...

While I have chosen to vaccinate my child I completely agree with this.


----------



## mommyof3co

Well and that's fine, it's your decision. But it's also mine that I feel that for MY children they are not safe enough and the risks outweigh the benefits. We all have the right to make that choice. I don't think anything bad of someone that vaccinates, even though I don't agree. BUT my kids have just as much right to education as yours do. It's public school meaning it's for everyone...not just vaccinated kids. If you want a school where there are only vaccinated kids you should seek out something different...some private schools have requirements and don't except exemptions. But I don't think they should be changing the requirements for public school when it's meant to be there for everyone as ever child has a right to education


----------



## louandivy

I don't know if you were replying to me but just so you know I was saying I agree with you!


----------



## mommyof3co

louandivy said:


> I don't know if you were replying to me but just so you know I was saying I agree with you!


No sorry I should have quoted her, we replied at the same time :thumbup:


----------



## venusrockstar

mommyof3co said:


> Well and that's fine, it's your decision. But it's also mine that I feel that for MY children they are not safe enough and the risks outweigh the benefits. We all have the right to make that choice. I don't think anything bad of someone that vaccinates, even though I don't agree. BUT my kids have just as much right to education as yours do. It's public school meaning it's for everyone...not just vaccinated kids. If you want a school where there are only vaccinated kids you should seek out something different...some private schools have requirements and don't except exemptions. But I don't think they should be changing the requirements for public school when it's meant to be there for everyone as ever child has a right to education

The public school my daughter will be attending requires up to date immunization records for admission.


----------



## mommyof3co

venusrockstar said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Well and that's fine, it's your decision. But it's also mine that I feel that for MY children they are not safe enough and the risks outweigh the benefits. We all have the right to make that choice. I don't think anything bad of someone that vaccinates, even though I don't agree. BUT my kids have just as much right to education as yours do. It's public school meaning it's for everyone...not just vaccinated kids. If you want a school where there are only vaccinated kids you should seek out something different...some private schools have requirements and don't except exemptions. But I don't think they should be changing the requirements for public school when it's meant to be there for everyone as ever child has a right to education
> 
> The public school my daughter will be attending requires up to date immunization records for admission.Click to expand...

All schools do here too UNLESS you have an exemption, and not every state allows the same exemptions. All states have it for medical reasons such as them being allergic to ingredients in them or have some other illness that prevents them from having the vaccines. Then I believe every state (minus 2 possibly) have religious exemptions. Then quite a few states have philosophical exemptions, meaning you don't believe in them for whatever reason. We already have to jump through hoops to get those exemptions but at least I have the choice still in doing what I feel is best for my kids. I don't know the rules in Canada or anywhere else, if they have exemptions or not. But no one in the school besides the nurse, unless someone were to look in their files, would know they weren't vaccinated, it's kept private. 

I actually just looked up Canada because I was curious and found this 

"Unlike some countries, immunization is not mandatory in Canada; it cannot be made mandatory because of the Canadian Constitution. Only three provinces have legislation or regulations under their health-protection acts to require proof of immunization for school entrance. Ontario and New Brunswick require proof for diphtheria, tetanus, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella immunization. In Manitoba, only measles vaccination is covered. It must be emphasized that, in these three provinces, exceptions are permitted for medical or religious grounds and reasons of conscience; legislation and regulations must not be interpreted to imply compulsory immunization."

So it's the same there, I'm sure there are kids at her school that are unvaccinated too.


----------



## venusrockstar

I wasn't aware of any of that...I was just told she has to have them.


----------



## mommyof3co

Yeah a lot of people aren't even here. It's really not common knowledge, so many people think you HAVE to have them, unless you are looking they aren't just going to tell people here you can do this instead, it's really reserved for people who are actually against them, I bet if more people knew you'd have people abusing it just not wanting to go through the hassle or not wanting to pay for the vaccines and doing this instead.


----------



## venusrockstar

mommyof3co said:


> Yeah a lot of people aren't even here. It's really not common knowledge, so many people think you HAVE to have them, unless you are looking they aren't just going to tell people here you can do this instead, it's really reserved for people who are actually against them, I bet if more people knew you'd have people abusing it just not wanting to go through the hassle or not wanting to pay for the vaccines and doing this instead.

I suppose so. Although, we don't pay for our vaccinations here. Our OHIP covers them.


----------



## ellie

I find the thought of a 'big brother' state where people are FORCED to submit their children for medical treatment whether or not they want it, completely terrifying ........
I'm quite surprised that caring mothers think that would be okay!


----------



## louandivy

ellie said:


> I find the thought of a 'big brother' state where people are FORCED to submit their children for medical treatment whether or not they want it, completely terrifying ........
> I'm quite surprised that caring mothers think that would be okay!

I agree, maybe my imagination gets me carried away but sounds like something from some kind of dystopian society in a sci fi book!


----------



## aob1013

So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.


----------



## mommyof3co

aob1013 said:


> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.

No one said you weren't caring? But how would anyone like it if we were suggesting everyone be forced to breastfeed because it's "best" or being forced to circ because some health officials decided it was "best". We should have the choice to do what we feel is best and safest for our kids...whether others agree or not. And like I said earlier even in communities with very high vaccination rates these diseases still come around, vaccines aren't 100%...you can't protect them from everything.


----------



## louandivy

aob1013 said:


> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.

Oh come on I really don't think she was implying that anyone is a bad mother! Its just shocking that anybody would want to live under a government that forces parents to give their children medical treatment against their will, its not about anyones parenting techniques.


----------



## Blah11

Yikes, are baby club threads always this estrogen fueled?


----------



## aob1013

I know she wasn't implying that. Was just using it from another view point. I know i am a fantastic Mother, all of my decisions are the best for me and my son. And yours are for your children. I respect that other people do things differently, that's the beauty of people - we are all individuals. I respect others, but i do disagree with certain things they do.


----------



## aob1013

Blah11 said:


> Yikes, are baby club threads always this estrogen fueled?

'Tis tonight B :lol:


----------



## xbabybumpx

tbh if it wasint for this forum i wouldint think anything about the jabs. but what is it people seem to have a problem with the mmr? apart from the autism thing?


----------



## ellie

aob1013 said:


> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.




aob1013 said:


> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.

ummm, that wasnt what i said .... :dohh: 

I said I was surprised that mums, who clearly are very caring, think it would be okay to force medical treatment on anyone. Choosing to vaccinate is not really relevant to that, as it would set a pretty frightening precedent in effectively losing part of one's parental responsibility, not to mention control over our own bodies (since it wouldnt be limited to babies). 
I'm sure if you thought about the realities of forced vaccinations you would agree that there could be better ways of improving vaccination uptake than forcing people to submit.


----------



## Nimyra

xbabybumpx said:


> tbh if it wasint for this forum i wouldint think anything about the jabs. but what is it people seem to have a problem with the mmr? apart from the autism thing?

Ask your dr. for a copy of the insert that comes with the vaccines. The insert (from the drug company) will list potential risks. Side effects are rare but they include seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome, and death. Long term effects aren't really known. Some people believe that neurological disorders like ADHD and MS have a link to toxins used to preserve vaccines.


----------



## aob1013

ellie said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.Click to expand...
> 
> ummm, that wasnt what i said .... :dohh:
> 
> I said I was surprised that mums, who clearly are very caring, think it would be okay to force medical treatment on anyone. Choosing to vaccinate is not really relevant to that, as it would set a pretty frightening precedent in effectively losing part of one's parental responsibility, not to mention control over our own bodies (since it wouldnt be limited to babies).
> I'm sure if you thought about the realities of forced vaccinations you would agree that there could be better ways of improving vaccination uptake than forcing people to submit.Click to expand...

You said you were suprised caring Mothers would force it. So i am not caring because i force it? Or am i missing something here :wacko:

I agree with you, it's not realistic and it would never happen. I wouldn't want to be forced to do something to Leni that my heart wasn't set on. HOWEVER, i hope all governments set some guidelines and drum into people how important it is and how sad the reality could be if someones child caught something and died because they decided not to vaccinate. Showing what may happen to a child who doesn't get a vaccination would be a good idea.


----------



## RÃ³sa

mommyof3co said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> No one said you weren't caring? But how would anyone like it if we were suggesting everyone be forced to breastfeed because it's "best" or being forced to circ because some health officials decided it was "best". We should have the choice to do what we feel is best and safest for our kids...whether others agree or not. And like I said earlier even in communities with very high vaccination rates *these diseases still come around*, vaccines aren't 100%...you can't protect them from everything.Click to expand...

Thats because the diseases are always there, your child just doesn't catch them because they have been vaccinated. A vaccinated child won't get the disease or if they do it will be a really mild form, the unvaccinated child may die from it...


----------



## cherryglitter

I too would never have thought about not giving Jake his jabs. It is something that i've only seen on here I must admit!


----------



## mommyof3co

Rósa;7771156 said:

> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> No one said you weren't caring? But how would anyone like it if we were suggesting everyone be forced to breastfeed because it's "best" or being forced to circ because some health officials decided it was "best". We should have the choice to do what we feel is best and safest for our kids...whether others agree or not. And like I said earlier even in communities with very high vaccination rates *these diseases still come around*, vaccines aren't 100%...you can't protect them from everything.Click to expand...
> 
> Thats because the diseases are always there, your child just doesn't catch them because they have been vaccinated. A vaccinated child won't get the disease or if they do it will be a really mild form, the unvaccinated child may die from it...Click to expand...


That is not always true....some of the vaccines have as low as a 69% protection rate. They can still get the diseases...SOME may not be as bad, some can be just as bad and they can die from it too.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Mothers 'force' vaccinations because they help protect our children. I would much rather make aidan have a vac than watching him fighting for his life against a disease that could have been prevented. If aidan died from something a vac could help prevent or reduce the risk of and.I hadn't let hom have it. I wouldn't be able to live with my self.xx


----------



## xbabybumpx

dont jump on me but there seems to be more americans that are not getting their children vaccinated compared to british. just something ive noticed....


----------



## mommyof3co

aob1013 said:


> ellie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.Click to expand...
> 
> ummm, that wasnt what i said .... :dohh:
> 
> I said I was surprised that mums, who clearly are very caring, think it would be okay to force medical treatment on anyone. Choosing to vaccinate is not really relevant to that, as it would set a pretty frightening precedent in effectively losing part of one's parental responsibility, not to mention control over our own bodies (since it wouldnt be limited to babies).
> I'm sure if you thought about the realities of forced vaccinations you would agree that there could be better ways of improving vaccination uptake than forcing people to submit.Click to expand...
> 
> You said you were suprised caring Mothers would force it. So i am not caring because i force it? Or am i missing something here :wacko:
> 
> I agree with you, it's not realistic and it would never happen. I wouldn't want to be forced to do something to Leni that my heart wasn't set on. HOWEVER, i hope all governments set some guidelines and drum into people how important it is and how sad the reality could be if someones child caught something and died because they decided not to vaccinate. Showing what may happen to a child who doesn't get a vaccination would be a good idea.Click to expand...


I think in most cases parents that choose not to vaccinate have done loads more research and put a lot more time into the decision. A lot of people (not all) that do vaccinate do it because they think they have no choice, people tell them it's best, or whatever without actually doing the research. I'm completely aware of every risk I'm taking...and the ones you are by vaccinating. Every dr here tells you to vaccinate, they are required to, you get handouts explaining why they want you to, it is being drummed into people already. It's always sad when a child dies from anything, be it a disease or the vaccination itself which happens too.


----------



## PepsiChic

mommyof3co said:


> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...

why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?

i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

I have researchee every single vaccination has had. I wouldn't put anything like tha into his body unlesd I understood its aim,the benefits,the risks and then make an informed decision about whether I feel it will benefit my child xx


----------



## cherryglitter

PepsiChic said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...
> 
> why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?
> 
> i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.Click to expand...

I agree with this wholeheartedly!


----------



## PepsiChic

mommyof3co said:


> That is actually the rule here but they do allow exemptions depending on your state, which is what we do. Even if I did vaccinate I would sure hope they wouldn't make it completely mandatory....I don't think the government should be demanding what we do with our kids. As I said earlier I feel it's dangerous to them and I sure wouldn't want someone I have no choice in doing what I feel is best for my kids.


why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?

i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.


----------



## Justagirlxx

venusrockstar said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> I will be vaccinating my child because I won't take any risks of my child dying from any of these illnesses when they can be easily prevented. *They also need an up to date immunization record in order to attend schools here*.
> 
> Same here, i hope that rules comes into play EVERYWHERE.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree. I don't see where these excemptions should be allowed considering I don't want my child exposed to something an unvaccinated child may have been in contact with.Click to expand...

The day the government forces vaccinations is the day we should all be VERY terrified. Do you truly believe the government should be able to forcibly give us medical care that we don't want? Especially if said medical care came with a host of adverse reactions? There is a serious problem in that type of thinking.


----------



## venusrockstar

Justagirlxx said:


> The day the government forces vaccinations is the day we should all be VERY terrified. Do you truly believe the government should be able to forcibly give us medical care that we don't want? Especially if said medical care came with a host of adverse reactions? There is a serious problem in that type of thinking.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but I do have a problem with someone else putting MY child at risk because they don't want to vaccinate.


----------



## Justagirlxx

aob1013 said:


> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.

No I wouldn't say you are an uncaring mother. I would say you haven't thought through the ramifications of what would happen if the government were allowed to control our medical care. AKA Giving the government control over what we do with our own bodies. If it starts with forced vaccinations...where would it end? Would the government forcibly administer anti-psychotics to people they deem to have mental illness? Would the government forcibly sterilize people they deem unfit to have children? All in the name of the greater good....Just think for a second what would happen if you give the government control over what we do with our bodies. Imagine the possibilities! To me that would be absolutely insane.


----------



## fluffpuffin

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> The day the government forces vaccinations is the day we should all be VERY terrified. Do you truly believe the government should be able to forcibly give us medical care that we don't want? Especially if said medical care came with a host of adverse reactions? There is a serious problem in that type of thinking.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but I do have a problem with someone else putting MY child at risk because they don't want to vaccinate.Click to expand...

I don't understand how a child that hasn't been vaccinated against a particular illness would put another child at risk that has been vaccinated. If the vaccine works there would be no risk of that child getting the illness anyway??? :shrug: I'm sorry but to me, having a medical background, that makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## mommyof3co

PepsiChic said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...
> 
> why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?
> 
> i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.Click to expand...


My child isn't put yours at anymore risk than a vaccinated child. Vaccines aren't 100%, vaccinated kids can pass diseases, can contract them, some vaccines shed and can spread diseases. Even if my kids were homeschooled they'd still be around other kids? My kids have a right to public education just as everyone else. If you don't like it find a private school that doesn't allow exemptions. 

This thread has gone along just fine but don't start calling me out and attacking my choice. I'm doing what's best for MY kids, based on tons and tons of research, countless hours and days I spent looking into this and making this decision. Probably more than half the people on this forum put into making the decision to vaccinate.


----------



## Justagirlxx

I value my freedom above all else. In the words of Benjamin Franklin... *&#8220;Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.&#8221;*


----------



## venusrockstar

fluffpuffin said:


> I don't understand how a child that hasn't been vaccinated against a particular illness would put another child at risk that has been vaccinated. If the vaccine works there would be no risk of that child getting the illness anyway??? :shrug: I'm sorry but to me, having a medical background, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Are you saying that vaccines protect a child 100% then?


----------



## Justagirlxx

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> The day the government forces vaccinations is the day we should all be VERY terrified. Do you truly believe the government should be able to forcibly give us medical care that we don't want? Especially if said medical care came with a host of adverse reactions? There is a serious problem in that type of thinking.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but I do have a problem with someone else putting MY child at risk because they don't want to vaccinate.Click to expand...

Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.


----------



## louandivy

Justagirlxx said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> No I wouldn't say you are an uncaring mother. I would say you haven't thought through the ramifications of what would happen if the government were allowed to control our medical care. AKA Giving the government control over what we do with our own bodies. If it starts with forced vaccinations...where would it end? Would the government forcibly administer anti-psychotics to people they deem to have mental illness? Would the government forcibly sterilize people they deem unfit to have children? All in the name of the greater good....Just think for a second what would happen if you give the government control over what we do with our bodies. Imagine the possibilities! To me that would be absolutely insane.Click to expand...

Are you me?! Exactly my thoughts.


----------



## Farie

What I dont understand is why so many parents of vaccinated kids are so angry at those who chose not to vaccinate?
Your childs covered, why are you fussing? 

With open imigration, advanced travel and the fact vaccines dont 'eradicate' a disease, they reduce it etc the fact a small minority exercise their right to refuse vacs has little or no impact on disease rates and no impact on vaccinated children.
Also, just as a side point, vaccinated children can still carry the diseases .... so vaccination does not stop the spread if a disease gets to an area.


----------



## venusrockstar

Justagirlxx said:


> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.

That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?


----------



## Lightworker

Thanks ladies for your responses so far. Can anyone recommend a thorough and comprehensive article on the risks and benefits of vaxing? I know someone mentioned Dr. Sears (love him!) and will look out for that. I admit with DD1 I had her vaxed no questions asked- i took the UKs DHs word as gospel- but would like more info now x


----------



## louandivy

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...

What? I'm sorry but did you not understand justagirl's post? You're not really seeing the bigger picture.


----------



## fluffpuffin

venusrockstar said:


> fluffpuffin said:
> 
> 
> I don't understand how a child that hasn't been vaccinated against a particular illness would put another child at risk that has been vaccinated. If the vaccine works there would be no risk of that child getting the illness anyway??? :shrug: I'm sorry but to me, having a medical background, that makes no sense whatsoever.
> 
> Are you saying that vaccines protect a child 100% then?Click to expand...

nothing is every 100%, but there is only a minutue risk - that's why vaccine boosters etc. are given at regular intervals, so that the person always has the best protection. It's highly unlikely to get an illness you've been vaccinated against, otherwise, what would be the point of vaccinating in the first place???

vaccines basically teach the body to make antibodies to a particular virus, so that when you get exposed to that strain again your immune system kicks in and your body 'kills' the visur before it can cause a systemic outbreak


----------



## Justagirlxx

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...

I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.


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## Aidan's Mummy

Certain children have compromised immune systems where they xan contract illnesses easily and be.much more detrimental to their health
Newborn babies have little to no immune systems. If the amount of un vaxed children rise so will the disease rates. Therefore examples I have mentioned above could be at serious risk.
Xx


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## AppleBlossom

Grace has had all of her vaccines except for swine flu which I felt was unnecessary. I had no issue with the MMR because I knew that the autism link was utter BS. I don't really understand why people would not vaccinate their children but that's just me and I'm sure they do have their reasons. For me, it was more important that I knew she would be protected from really serious illness rather than worry about what the vaccines themselves 'might' do. Like with MMR, the so called risk of autism weighed up against the very likely risk that she could contract a really serious illness like measles. But like I said, that's just my opinion.


----------



## venusrockstar

Justagirlxx said:


> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...

It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.


----------



## mommyof3co

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.Click to expand...

But the point is even if your child was in a school of ONLY vaccinated kids and one of them was exposed to the disease by whoever or there was an outbreak in your town they could still pass it to your child, your child could still get sick. Having unvaccinated kids in the school doesn't make any difference, they aren't carrying the diseases around. Your child could actually spread it without you even knowing it because say they are vaccinated and get a VERY mild form of it where you don't even realize it's that vs a regular cold and they are around newborns they could give them the full blown disease.


----------



## Justagirlxx

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.Click to expand...

You seem to retract your statements when you get backed into a corner. :shrug:


----------



## Nimyra

AppleBlossom, that was a lovely, respectful post. Thank you.

For the moms who are worried about protecting their LOs - are your boosters up to date? Very few people's are. Children aren't the only ones who can spread communicable diseases.


----------



## louandivy

As someone who _has_ vaccinated my child, I would still rather send Ivy to school knowing there are slight risks being around unvaxed children (as there are slight risks of many things in life) than live in a society that forcibly vaccinates children against their parent's will. Terrifying.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

But then if children who have had vacs get a mild form. Surley that is better tham getting the full blown disease like measles.xx


----------



## Nimyra

Aidan's Mummy said:


> But then if children who have had vacs get a mild form. Surley that is better tham getting the full blown disease like measles.xx

The point is that your vacc'ed child with a mild form of measles can still spread full blown measles to your infant who isnt' vacc'ed without you even knowing that your older child had measles. Whereas if you knew the older child was sick with something serious, you could keep that child away from the vulnerable infant.


----------



## mommyof3co

Aidan's Mummy said:


> But then if children who have had vacs get a mild form. Surley that is better tham getting the full blown disease like measles.xx


Yeah but my point was (if you're referring to my post lol) is that if they have a very mild form the parent may not even realize it's the measles or whatever disease it has, making them even more 'dangerous' because if they think they just have a cold or whatever and they are around babies or other kids spreading a disease that is actually more serious without even realizing it.


----------



## ttc_lolly

Some of you are going on like it's the unvaxed children spreading these diseases :haha: lets just remember where the diseases originate from, and where your children can also come into contact with them (living in a high risk area i.e. London due to the amount of immigrants living here, travel etc) I can see both points here but it's really nothing for people to be getting mad at - we all want the best for our own children at the end of the day.

I am unsure about vaccinations, and that is honestly only because of the hype I've heard about them mainly on here and sometimes on the news. But I will be getting Amber vaxed, and thats only because I personally don't know anybody that has suffered any bad side effects apart from a little fever. That being said, I am going to speak to my dr and try and delay them as I do think she's a bit too young at the moment.

I certainly wouldn't want any government, especially ours, to take control of our medical care & procedures, this really should stay as it is. x


----------



## Justagirlxx

louandivy said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> No I wouldn't say you are an uncaring mother. I would say you haven't thought through the ramifications of what would happen if the government were allowed to control our medical care. AKA Giving the government control over what we do with our own bodies. If it starts with forced vaccinations...where would it end? Would the government forcibly administer anti-psychotics to people they deem to have mental illness? Would the government forcibly sterilize people they deem unfit to have children? All in the name of the greater good....Just think for a second what would happen if you give the government control over what we do with our bodies. Imagine the possibilities! To me that would be absolutely insane.Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Are you me?! *Exactly my thoughts.Click to expand...

lol had to laugh at the bolded part! Just friend requested you hun! x


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

With things like measles and wooping cough even a mild form your child would be noticeably ill. So you wouldn't let them mix with other children anyway. And the lifelong effects some diseases carry I .e loss of sight. I would much rather he has a mild form. And like I said it would still be noticeable and you wouldn't let them mix wih others readily even if you don't know its measles etc xx


----------



## mommyof3co

Aidan's Mummy said:


> With things like measles and wooping cough even a mild form your child would be noticeably ill. So you wouldn't let them mix with other children anyway. And the lifelong effects some diseases carry I .e loss of sight. I would much rather he has a mild form. And like I said it would still be noticeable and you wouldn't let them mix wih others readily even if you don't know its measles etc xx

Measles is a little different because of the rash, but whooping cough not necc, if they got lucky and had a very mild form it could look like a cold and many people still take their kids out with colds. Also many parents send their kids to school knowing they are sick because they have to work...most get sent home but not before they've exposed all those other kids to whatever they may have. It could still easily be spread among a school of only vaccinated kids.


----------



## Nimyra

Aidan's Mummy said:


> With things like measles and wooping cough even a mild form your child would be noticeably ill. So you wouldn't let them mix with other children anyway. And the lifelong effects some diseases carry I .e loss of sight. I would much rather he has a mild form. And like I said it would still be noticeable and you wouldn't let them mix wih others readily even if you don't know its measles etc xx

In the US it is believed that many cases of Whooping Cough (in vaccinated kids) are not diagnosed. In adults, the characteristic cough is also missing, so adults are almost never diagnosed (and most of us don't have immunity unless our booster shots are current).


----------



## venusrockstar

Justagirlxx said:


> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to retract your statements when you get backed into a corner. :shrug:Click to expand...

And you seem to attack everyone who disagrees with you.


----------



## ricschick

id like to no do you research what the actual desease can do to your child too or just the vax?


----------



## Drazic<3

Nimyra said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> But then if children who have had vacs get a mild form. Surley that is better tham getting the full blown disease like measles.xx
> 
> The point is that your vacc'ed child with a mild form of measles can still spread full blown measles to your infant who isnt' vacc'ed without you even knowing that your older child had measles. Whereas if you knew the older child was sick with something serious, you could keep that child away from the vulnerable infant.Click to expand...

I don't get how that is a good reason not to vaccination at all? It sounds like you are suggesting vacc'd kids are at greater risk somehow.

I researched vacc'ing at length. There is a hell of a lot of rubbish out there on the internet about everything, so I only looked at decent resources and I FEEL the information said vacc'ing was for the best. To suggest anyone would vacc there child and put them at risk is unfair, it is only done, as I can presume non-vacc'ing is, with the best of intentions at heart. 

However, I didn't just consider my precious daughter, I considered other kids and people too. Might sound harsh, but I think non-vacc'ing fails to do that.


----------



## ricschick

mommyof3co said:


> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.Click to expand...
> 
> But the point is even if your child was in a school of ONLY vaccinated kids and one of them was exposed to the disease by whoever or there was an outbreak in your town they could still pass it to your child, your child could still get sick. Having unvaccinated kids in the school doesn't make any difference, they aren't carrying the diseases around. Your child could actually spread it without you even knowing it because say they are vaccinated and get a VERY mild form of it where you don't even realize it's that vs a regular cold and they are around newborns they could give them the full blown disease.Click to expand...

have you actually read what you have just written?? youve completely contradicted what you have said before so what your saying is the vax kids will be fine but the UN vax kids will get seriously ill yet "some" still choose NOT to vax??? im baffled.......


----------



## ricschick

Nimyra said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> But then if children who have had vacs get a mild form. Surley that is better tham getting the full blown disease like measles.xx
> 
> The point is that your vacc'ed child with a mild form of measles can still spread full blown measles to your infant who isnt' vacc'ed without you even knowing that your older child had measles. Whereas if you knew the older child was sick with something serious, you could keep that child away from the vulnerable infant.Click to expand...

im speechless!!:dohh:

are you serious thats your agument for not vax your child? 

the vax child is very unlikely to get the desease in the first place the child that isnt vax is very likely to get it and by the time you do find out what it is you may have passed it on to several people or INFANTS.


----------



## ricschick

mommyof3co said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> With things like measles and wooping cough even a mild form your child would be noticeably ill. So you wouldn't let them mix with other children anyway. And the lifelong effects some diseases carry I .e loss of sight. I would much rather he has a mild form. And like I said it would still be noticeable and you wouldn't let them mix wih others readily even if you don't know its measles etc xx
> 
> Measles is a little different because of the rash, but whooping cough not necc, if they got lucky and had a very mild form it could look like a cold and many people still take their kids out with colds. Also many parents send their kids to school knowing they are sick because they have to work...most get sent home but not before they've exposed all those other kids to whatever they may have. It could still easily be spread among a school of only vaccinated kids.Click to expand...

thats all well and good but doesnt that make you worry even more if you dont vax?


----------



## mommyof3co

ricschick said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venusrockstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.Click to expand...
> 
> But the point is even if your child was in a school of ONLY vaccinated kids and one of them was exposed to the disease by whoever or there was an outbreak in your town they could still pass it to your child, your child could still get sick.  Having unvaccinated kids in the school doesn't make any difference, they aren't carrying the diseases around. Your child could actually spread it without you even knowing it because say they are vaccinated and get a VERY mild form of it where you don't even realize it's that vs a regular cold and they are around newborns they could give them the full blown disease.Click to expand...
> 
> have you actually read what you have just written?? youve completely contradicted what you have said before so what your saying is the vax kids will be fine but the UN vax kids will get seriously ill yet "some" still choose NOT to vax??? im baffled.......Click to expand...

The whole point to that post was someone saying they want the 'comfort' of knowing their child is going to school with only vaccinated kids. I know exactly what risk we are taking, that if they were exposed they have a chance of getting seriously ill....I get it. I know exactly what I said. And no to someone else that asked, I wasn't saying that's a good reason not to vaccinate just saying that even in a school with all vaccinated kids these diseases can still be passed around and then those kids could expose newborns or unvaccinated kids. 

My decision was not based on just the vaccines but the diseases itself. I looked at the risks and benefits of the vaccines, the risks and benefits (yes there are some benefits) to having the disease naturally, the risks and benefits in each of the ingredients in these vaccines. I looked at it all. Someone could even have read the exact same things I did but still come to the decision to vax, I didn't read just anti vax stuff, but it's all how someone looks at something, what they weigh most in their minds, what they feel most comfortable with and what risks they are willing to take.


----------



## Nimyra

Ricschick, my comments above weren't about my choices with respect to vaccinating my daughter. They were a response to an earlier post which was saying that having unvaccinated kids around puts vaccinated kids at risk. I was merely saying that that wasn't true. 

goodnight, ladies!


----------



## aob1013

Some of these posts are hilariously contradictory!


----------



## aob1013

Justagirlxx said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> No I wouldn't say you are an uncaring mother. I would say you haven't thought through the ramifications of what would happen if the government were allowed to control our medical care. AKA Giving the government control over what we do with our own bodies. If it starts with forced vaccinations...where would it end? Would the government forcibly administer anti-psychotics to people they deem to have mental illness? Would the government forcibly sterilize people they deem unfit to have children? All in the name of the greater good....Just think for a second what would happen if you give the government control over what we do with our bodies. Imagine the possibilities! To me that would be absolutely insane.Click to expand...

Neither would i, i am a fantastic Mother, and better than some, alot infact.

I totally agree with what you said, in an ideal world i would like it if just that one thing was implemented. But in reality that would just be the start. Totally agree :)


----------



## aob1013

PepsiChic said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...
> 
> why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?
> 
> *i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.*Click to expand...



Now there's a solution :thumbup:


----------



## mrs_rj

i can't believe anyone would not vaccinate their child against serious diseases!!! i would never forgive myself if i refused to vaccinate Leah and then she got a nasty illness later because of it. mindblowing


----------



## Lu28

aob1013 said:


> PepsiChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...
> 
> why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?
> 
> *i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.*Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Now there's a solution :thumbup:Click to expand...

How would that be a solution to anything? By the time our kids are school age, all the kids whose parents wanted vaccinations will have had them done and are protected and those who haven't had them done have researched their decisions and are aware of the risks. If you have a vaccinated child, you're protected so what's the problem?

I haven't seen any contradictary posts here, just that some are missing the point being made.


----------



## aob1013

The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.


----------



## MrsGlitz

My biggest problem with not vaccinating is that newborns are put at risk. Are we supposed to keep our babies indoors until they've had their vaccines? 

However I also wouldn't want to live in a society where it was forced upon those who feel uncomfortable with it. It's a touchy subject for me because I am so torn between a parent's right to choice and a baby's right to be protected from all things he can be where possible IYSWIM?


----------



## ricschick

aob1013 said:


> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.

exactly my feelings too!! dont understand why anyone would put a child at risk and not give them any pretection.


----------



## annawrigley

I just watched a video of a baby with whooping cough and it makes me want to cry :nope:


----------



## bubbles123

Whooping cough is AWFUL. My mum tells stories about when she was child minding and she had to look after kids with it. She said they would make this awful whooping sound and literally cough up everything they had - acid, blood, pus, you name it. She said it was awful to have to nurse them through.

And as others have said vaccination relies on herd immunity. That's because some children will be unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons and some will be too young yet (eg newborn babies) but if all those who are able to be vaccinated are, it keeps the disease at bay. If children are not vaccinated they can pass the diseases onto these children. I think ultimately that is why this subject causes so much upset. Because if you choose not to vaccinate your child you can be putting others people's children in danger.


----------



## Lu28

aob1013 said:


> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.

I accept that and this is the part of not vaccinating that worries me the most but making vaccinations mandatory for schools wouldn't have any effect on this.


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## funkyfish586

Euan has had all of his apart from the MMR which i am delaying until Feb when he is 2. Personal preference but i think 1 is too young. He will def be getting it though, Islas had her 8 weeks so far & again i will delay the MMR for her. x


----------



## bubbles123

I think there can be perfectly legitimate fears about when to give vaccinations, multiple vaccinations etc and I do think that it can be the medical professions refusal to accept these fears that can lead to people not vaccinating at all. There should be more encouragement of people who choose not to vaccinate at a set time, as that's better for public health than not vaccinating at all.


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## aliss

I'm sorry, but I'm conflicted. I know that newborns are not protected but at the same time, how can it be okay for anyone to force certain medical treatments without parental consent? (Mine is vaccinated, btw)

This is quite a debate. It reminds me of certain religious groups that may get their children seized because they refuse certain life-saving treatment (ie. blood transfusions, faith healing, etc).

Not sure what to think. This issue is far more complex than just vaccines.


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## rainbows_x

Ava is having all her injections, she's already had her first lot, she cried at the second jab then got over it pretty quickly.
I wouldn't ever forgive myself if we wern't to vaccinate and she got ill, I just couldn't!

Also agree with aob, why should my child potentially siffer because another childs parents didn't vaccinate?


----------



## aob1013

Lu28 said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.
> 
> I accept that and this is the part of not vaccinating that worries me the most but making vaccinations mandatory for schools wouldn't have any effect on this.Click to expand...

I know, unfortunately :(


----------



## louandivy

aliss said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm conflicted. I know that newborns are not protected but at the same time, how can it be okay for anyone to force certain medical treatments without parental consent? (Mine is vaccinated, btw)
> 
> This is quite a debate. It reminds me of certain religious groups that may get their children seized because they refuse certain life-saving treatment (ie. blood transfusions, faith healing, etc).
> 
> Not sure what to think. This issue is far more complex than just vaccines.

Exactly. I personally have chosen to vaccinate my child but the issue of a government forcing medical treatment is an issue way beyond my feelings as a mother. I also feel like people are being VERY judgemental of those who choose not to vax their kids without really even trying to understand their reasoning.


----------



## Lu28

rainbows_x said:


> Ava is having all her injections, she's already had her first lot, she cried at the second jab then got over it pretty quickly.
> I wouldn't ever forgive myself if we wern't to vaccinate and she got ill, I just couldn't!
> 
> Also agree with aob, why should my child potentially siffer because another childs parents didn't vaccinate?

To be fair though, I doubt any parent would refuse a vaccine just because of the immediate pain an injection causes a baby, it's more to do with the possible long term effects :flower:


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## mommyof3co

aob1013 said:


> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.

You are acting as if unvaccinated kids carry illnesses around with them. A vaccinated child could have come into contact with one of these diseases anywhere and be carrying it, have a very mild form, whatever and get your newborn sick. A child that is newly vaccinated (some vaccines shed) could come around your newborn and get them sick. The problem is not ONLY unvaccinated kids. It's not like they are the only ones that can spread illness so really the only solution would be keeping them away from everyone until they've had their vaccines and you feel they are 'safe' then.


----------



## aob1013

mommyof3co said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.
> 
> You are acting as if unvaccinated kids carry illnesses around with them. A vaccinated child could have come into contact with one of these diseases anywhere and be carrying it, have a very mild form, whatever and get your newborn sick. A child that is newly vaccinated (some vaccines shed) could come around your newborn and get them sick. The problem is not ONLY unvaccinated kids. It's not like they are the only ones that can spread illness so really the only solution would be keeping them away from everyone until they've had their vaccines and you feel they are 'safe' then.Click to expand...

An unvaccinated child obviously doesn't carry diseases aroud with them, but if they catch a disease their chance of dying from that disease is higher than a child tha is vaccinated. People seem not to understand the whole point of vaccinations. They save lives, and protect lives. Fact.


----------



## mommyof3co

aob1013 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.
> 
> You are acting as if unvaccinated kids carry illnesses around with them. A vaccinated child could have come into contact with one of these diseases anywhere and be carrying it, have a very mild form, whatever and get your newborn sick. A child that is newly vaccinated (some vaccines shed) could come around your newborn and get them sick. The problem is not ONLY unvaccinated kids. It's not like they are the only ones that can spread illness so really the only solution would be keeping them away from everyone until they've had their vaccines and you feel they are 'safe' then.Click to expand...
> 
> An unvaccinated child obviously doesn't carry diseases aroud with them, but if they catch a disease their chance of dying from that disease is higher than a child tha is vaccinated. People seem not to understand the whole point of vaccinations. They save lives, and protect lives. Fact.Click to expand...



I completely understand the point of vaccinations, and feel they have their place, just not in my child's body. Vaccines can also cause long term damage and death. Fact. Vaccines are not only benefits.


----------



## aob1013

mommyof3co said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.
> 
> You are acting as if unvaccinated kids carry illnesses around with them. A vaccinated child could have come into contact with one of these diseases anywhere and be carrying it, have a very mild form, whatever and get your newborn sick. A child that is newly vaccinated (some vaccines shed) could come around your newborn and get them sick. The problem is not ONLY unvaccinated kids. It's not like they are the only ones that can spread illness so really the only solution would be keeping them away from everyone until they've had their vaccines and you feel they are 'safe' then.Click to expand...
> 
> An unvaccinated child obviously doesn't carry diseases aroud with them, but if they catch a disease their chance of dying from that disease is higher than a child tha is vaccinated. People seem not to understand the whole point of vaccinations. They save lives, and protect lives. Fact.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I completely understand the point of vaccinations, and feel they have their place, just not in my child's body. *Vaccines can also cause long term damage and death*. Fact. Vaccines are not only benefits.Click to expand...

Hardly EVER that does happen, hardly ever. 

I could never forgive myself if Leni died from something i could have protected him from *shudders*


----------



## mommyof3co

That isn't true, it happens a lot more than people might want to believe. You can look at the VAERS database (where you can report adverse reactions to vaccines..I think it's only US though) and that has tons of them and that's said to only be maybe 1/3 because most go unreported. 

I'm not saying anyone should not vaccinate, but that is our choice and we have made an educated decision, not just jumped into it. People shouldn't act like my kids are walking around diseased or something. In fact, they are very healthy and we do a lot to make sure they are and would never allow them around other kids sick with anything, so the chances of them spreading something is no more likely than your child. While you feel you couldn't live with yourself if he died from something you could have protected him from, I feel I couldn't live with myself if they died from these vaccines I could have protected them from knowing what I do. We have different opinions but in the end are doing what is best for our own kids, people need to learn to respect others choices and not just think they are always right.


----------



## Lu28

aob1013 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.
> 
> You are acting as if unvaccinated kids carry illnesses around with them. A vaccinated child could have come into contact with one of these diseases anywhere and be carrying it, have a very mild form, whatever and get your newborn sick. A child that is newly vaccinated (some vaccines shed) could come around your newborn and get them sick. The problem is not ONLY unvaccinated kids. It's not like they are the only ones that can spread illness so really the only solution would be keeping them away from everyone until they've had their vaccines and you feel they are 'safe' then.Click to expand...
> 
> An unvaccinated child obviously doesn't carry diseases aroud with them, but if they catch a disease their chance of dying from that disease is higher than a child tha is vaccinated. People seem not to understand the whole point of vaccinations. They save lives, and protect lives. Fact.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I completely understand the point of vaccinations, and feel they have their place, just not in my child's body. *Vaccines can also cause long term damage and death*. Fact. Vaccines are not only benefits.Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly EVER that does happen, hardly ever.
> 
> I could never forgive myself if Leni died from something i could have protected him from *shudders*Click to expand...

But surely this is going back to vaccinating for the sake of your own individual child, not the community at large which was your previous argument. If we're talking the health of the individual child, then that's where parents should have the freedom to make their own decisions without being dictated to by the state.


----------



## aob1013

Lu28 said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> The problem is if an unvaccinated kid comes near my newborn for instance and my newborn dies, i won't be happy. The other problem is that i think alot of people feel upset that a child could potentially die because his/her parents did not decide to vaccinate him/her.
> 
> You are acting as if unvaccinated kids carry illnesses around with them. A vaccinated child could have come into contact with one of these diseases anywhere and be carrying it, have a very mild form, whatever and get your newborn sick. A child that is newly vaccinated (some vaccines shed) could come around your newborn and get them sick. The problem is not ONLY unvaccinated kids. It's not like they are the only ones that can spread illness so really the only solution would be keeping them away from everyone until they've had their vaccines and you feel they are 'safe' then.Click to expand...
> 
> An unvaccinated child obviously doesn't carry diseases aroud with them, but if they catch a disease their chance of dying from that disease is higher than a child tha is vaccinated. People seem not to understand the whole point of vaccinations. They save lives, and protect lives. Fact.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I completely understand the point of vaccinations, and feel they have their place, just not in my child's body. *Vaccines can also cause long term damage and death*. Fact. Vaccines are not only benefits.Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly EVER that does happen, hardly ever.
> 
> I could never forgive myself if Leni died from something i could have protected him from *shudders*Click to expand...
> 
> But surely this is going back to vaccinating for the sake of your own individual child, not the community at large which was your previous argument. If we're talking the health of the individual child, then that's where parents should have the freedom to make their own decisions without being dictated to by the state.Click to expand...


I believe i should vaccinate Leni to protect him and the WHOLE community. I hope that the request that all children's jabs should be up to date is taken up by other schools.


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## aob1013

I respect what you think, i just disagree with it.


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## Aidan's Mummy

Vaccinations very rarely have side effects and even more rarely do they affect a child in a detremental way for life or kill. Whereas some of the diseases that vacs help prevent or lessen the impact of , they quite often cause life long effects and death if contracted. And if all children were vaxed one child having a mild form wouldn't be as dangerous. Yes the other children will be effected but not in such a serious way because the child would be vaxed.


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## SKATERBUN

huggermomof2 said:


> Just wanted to ask the moms that decided not to vaccinate - what were your reasons? If your children are older, how has their health been? I would really love to know x

Can't we go back to the original post, we've already had the debate on 'why its neccessary to vacinate' on the debates board ages ago. I am really interested in the reasons why not to vacinate :thumbup:


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## Mercy2

The one good thing to tink about (for those who do vaccinate), Is the concept of something called "herd immunity" which basically means that when a population has a certain precentage of people with immunity (be it by vaccination or by contact with actuall illnesses), then the community as a whole has a level of immunity which means the diseases slowly become less prevailent! thus the decrease in cases of the likes of measles and mumps etc before theUK "autism scandal". It is when increasing groups of the general population no longer have vaccines or imunity that diseases begin their rise to prevailence again! 
here's a link to the Wikipedia defination in case my warblings dont make sense lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

going back to the OP
I think if I think about the one vaccine that I have not chosen to give my kids, the Swine Flu vaccine, I chose not to do so because I didnt feel the risk of this particular disease was great enough to warrant use of the vaccine! 
And that my son had already been infected with a mild case of confirmed swine flu before the vaccine became available! therefor, in this case i didnt feel there was enough justification or need! 

Here are some links to vaccination research that I have found in the past few mins! Always good reading and I htink we should keep well informed so that we can make choices for our children that we think are in their best interests, whatever that may be x

https://www.path.org/vaccineresources/index.php


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## nightkd

Rósa;7771156 said:

> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> So i'm not a caring Mother because i want to protect every child from potentially dying from deadly diseases? Hmm. I would say it's the other way around personally.
> 
> No one said you weren't caring? But how would anyone like it if we were suggesting everyone be forced to breastfeed because it's "best" or being forced to circ because some health officials decided it was "best". We should have the choice to do what we feel is best and safest for our kids...whether others agree or not. And like I said earlier even in communities with very high vaccination rates *these diseases still come around*, vaccines aren't 100%...you can't protect them from everything.Click to expand...
> 
> Thats because the diseases are always there, your child just doesn't catch them because they have been vaccinated. A vaccinated child won't get the disease or if they do it will be a really mild form, the unvaccinated child may die from it...Click to expand...

:haha:

I'm sorry. That's ridiculous.

Some children will never develop an immunity to a disease even if they are vaccinated against it. And unvaccinated children can build up a natural immunity which is STRONGER than a vaccine-induced immunity.

And as I said before, there has been research which suggests some illnesses are WORSE in vaccinated children than unvaccinated. :shrug:


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## Drazic<3

Can you link to said research?


----------



## nightkd

PepsiChic said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...
> 
> why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?
> 
> i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.Click to expand...

Maybe YOU should homeschool your children just incase they don't build up an immunity even though they get vaccinated? :shrug:


----------



## nightkd

Drazic<3 said:


> Can you link to said research?

I'll try and find it. I may have it saved on DH's computer in my faves (he wiped my computer a few weeks ago) and it's all unplugged, so it might not be tonight.


----------



## wishingonastar

PepsiChic said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Exemptions should be allowed because we are parents should have a right to decide what's best for our children. I for one am glad I live in a country where I actually have the choice in how I raise my kids and what they are exposed to...
> 
> why should you be allowed to have your child put everyone elses child at risk?
> 
> i think it should be made mandatory for child to go to schools, then if YOU choose not to have your child vaccinated you can home school them without putting THEM or OTHER children at the risk that YOU are willing to take with your own child and forcing on to others by having them together.Click to expand...


wow yeah thats a great idea...i'll also lock isabel up all day or make her walk around in a plastic bubble for fear she contaminates your childs air. 

and perhaps you'd like to remind your children of the many countries they must never travel to because they don't vaccinate against what you've given your child cos god forbid they come into contact with 'contaminated children'

get real


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## wishingonastar

with regards the MMR, it's also been proven in research that if you recieve immunity via vaccine you do not pass that immunity to your child, you only pass it on if you caught the disease naturally. the government give the MMR at 13 months as thats when the mothers immunity passed on in the womb wears off, but actually it's actually incorrect and there are many babies unprotected from MMR for the first 13 months of life as their mother received immunity artifically

there's also no research to show exactly how long vaccine immunity lasts in the differing diseases/illnesses and it is suggested there is a time limit on their validity meaning vaccinated parents are also posing a risk of catching diseases they were vaccinated against as a child as their immunity has worn off...people who feel unvaccinated children pose a risk should perhaps look into this and get top up vaccines themselves before they point fingers at others :shrug:


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## Nimyra

I have been vaccinated (received current booster shots) to protect my daughter. Who else has done the same?


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## MrsGlitz

I know nothing about boosters but it is something I keep meaning to ask my GP about!


----------



## Nimyra

MrsGlitz said:


> I know nothing about boosters but it is something I keep meaning to ask my GP about!

GPs never mention it, you have to ask, "are my shots current" - unless you've received vaccines for traveling or college in the last 5 years or so, they probably are out of date. They will ask when your last shots were, but you can also ask to be tested to see if you have immunity. But there isn't any harm in repeating the boosters, so might as well just get them if its been a while.


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## Lu28

Nimyra said:


> I have been vaccinated (received current booster shots) to protect my daughter. Who else has done the same?

I certainly haven't. I guess no-one is in a position to make accusations in this area unless they have :thumbup:


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## venusrockstar

Nimyra said:


> I have been vaccinated (received current booster shots) to protect my daughter. Who else has done the same?

Me! :)


----------



## AlwaysPraying

Nimyra said:


> MrsGlitz said:
> 
> 
> I know nothing about boosters but it is something I keep meaning to ask my GP about!
> 
> GPs never mention it, you have to ask, "are my shots current" - unless you've received vaccines for traveling or college in the last 5 years or so, they probably are out of date. They will ask when your last shots were, but you can also ask to be tested to see if you have immunity. But there isn't any harm in repeating the boosters, so might as well just get them if its been a while.Click to expand...

This is interesting to me. You easily say that there's no harm done in getting boosters on ourselves. 

Is the issue with immunizing our children solely based in their size then? 

I am asking this sincerely. I find it interesting that we are so easily willing to do to ourselves what we won't do to our kids. This would make delaying shots a stronger argument then right?


----------



## mommyof3co

AlwaysPraying said:


> Nimyra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsGlitz said:
> 
> 
> I know nothing about boosters but it is something I keep meaning to ask my GP about!
> 
> GPs never mention it, you have to ask, "are my shots current" - unless you've received vaccines for traveling or college in the last 5 years or so, they probably are out of date. They will ask when your last shots were, but you can also ask to be tested to see if you have immunity. But there isn't any harm in repeating the boosters, so might as well just get them if its been a while.Click to expand...
> 
> This is interesting to me. You easily say that there's no harm done in getting boosters on ourselves.
> 
> Is the issue with immunizing our children solely based in their size then?
> 
> I am asking this sincerely. I find it interesting that we are so easily willing to do to ourselves what we won't do to our kids. This would make delaying shots a stronger argument then right?Click to expand...

I personally won't vaccinate myself either so I won't do to my kids or myself. BUT I think it's different to let an adult make the choice knowing the risks and benefits if they then want to get the vaccines. Also, it allows the immune system to build up naturally first. I might consider certain vaccines if my kids aren't exposed to these diseases by a certain age. Like by early teens if my boys haven't had mumps I'd consider getting that done since if you get it in puberty or later it can effect fertility. A lot of the diseases aren't as severe as kids, a normal healthy kid at least, and can give them a stronger immune system or lifetime immunity so I'd rather them have it younger than older or get the vaccines.


----------



## wyates

Mind you, the diseases they vaccinate against are as well as gone, but the growing threats like tbc they dont?? Unless you pay it privately. For me it makes no sense putting a child thru a physical burden to get vaccinated towards something that hardly exists.
I have waited a few months but now nurse is nagging me and there have been cases in this country where the nurses file complaints towards the parents if not vaccinating even if the law here says its voluntary...


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## Mercy2

many diseases hardly exist due to growing public immunity created by vaccines. so if non vaccination were to increase sufficiently enough , this may lead to a return to prevailence for some diseases


----------



## wyates

i still think the governments should focus on vaccinate people around the world where these diseases are a threat and vaccinate their own citizens towards the current threats. Otherwise you might end up vaccinating against xxxxxxxx diseases...


----------



## kissikiss

Drazic<3 said:


> Can you link to said research?

I too would be curious to the research done on this. I have just searched my university journal database, even clicked on the box to include publications that my university does not specifically subscribe to, and I cannot find any studies that have been done suggesting that unvaccinated children have a better immune system than vaccinated children, or that some diseases are worse in vaccinated children as opposed to unvaccinated children. 

I have found several websites (particularly homeopathy/anti vaccine websites) that have inferred this though....

2 very different things. Not to come across as all knowledgable, cause I most certainly am not (I don't think anyone really is), but one of my pet peeves is people that state something scientific and don't produce evidence to back up what they have said. Websites do not count. I want to see statistics in those studies, I want to know p values and confidence intervals. 

Here however is an extract from a journal that has been published in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry re: tuburculous meningitis in unvaccinated vs BCG vaccinated children:



> Short term outcome was significantly better in the vaccinated group with 70% of the total severe sequelae and 75% of the total deaths occurring in the unvaccinated group (p = 0.018). Conclusion: Children with TBM who have been vaccinated with BCG appear to maintain better mentation and have a superior outcome. This may in part be explained by the better immune response to infection, as reflected in the higher CSF cell counts in this group in the present study.

I have other examples, which I can give to anyone interested.


----------



## Janidog

wyates said:


> Mind you, the diseases they vaccinate against are as well as gone, but the growing threats like tbc they dont?? Unless you pay it privately. For me it makes no sense putting a child thru a physical burden to get vaccinated towards something that hardly exists.
> I have waited a few months but now nurse is nagging me and there have been cases in this country where the nurses file complaints towards the parents if not vaccinating even if the law here says its voluntary...

I know lets stop vaccinating our children and lets see how quickly the diseases come back :dohh: 

And lets also waste many many many years that scientist have worked on vaccine to prevent spread of the disease.

The whole point that they hardly exists is because so many children are vaccinated!!!!!


----------



## aob1013

Well said Janidog!!

If we stop vaccinating .. the diseases come back ... :dohh:


----------



## MrsGlitz

The argument that certain diseases hardly exist so let's not vaccinate is flawed since they've almost been erridacted BECAUSE of vaccinations.


----------



## helen1234

absolutely vaccinating all of my children.

measles is becoming more and more common in children not vaccinated and there has been 2 deaths in the west midlands already this year. thats 2 too many.

i wouldnt even delay it, it was bad enough dragging rosie for her pre school booster, if i'd delayed it i'd be thinking i could have had this done and dustered months/yrs ago.

there's no evidence linking mmr to autism, it was quashed a long time ago.


----------



## Drazic<3

kissikiss said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Can you link to said research?
> 
> I too would be curious to the research done on this. I have just searched my university journal database, even clicked on the box to include publications that my university does not specifically subscribe to, and I cannot find any studies that have been done suggesting that unvaccinated children have a better immune system than vaccinated children, or that some diseases are worse in vaccinated children as opposed to unvaccinated children.
> 
> I have found several websites (particularly homeopathy/anti vaccine websites) that have inferred this though....
> 
> 2 very different things. Not to come across as all knowledgable, cause I most certainly am not (I don't think anyone really is), but one of my pet peeves is people that state something scientific and don't produce evidence to back up what they have said. Websites do not count. I want to see statistics in those studies, I want to know p values and confidence intervals.
> 
> Here however is an extract from a journal that has been published in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry re: tuburculous meningitis in unvaccinated vs BCG vaccinated children:
> 
> 
> 
> Short term outcome was significantly better in the vaccinated group with 70% of the total severe sequelae and 75% of the total deaths occurring in the unvaccinated group (p = 0.018). Conclusion: Children with TBM who have been vaccinated with BCG appear to maintain better mentation and have a superior outcome. This may in part be explained by the better immune response to infection, as reflected in the higher CSF cell counts in this group in the present study.Click to expand...
> 
> I have other examples, which I can give to anyone interested.Click to expand...

Totally agree. Too often is wiki or some other spurious research in some randomers blog listed as 'fact'. Not saying NightKD would be looking at rubbish sources, but I'm a bit fastidious about research - especially when it is being used to validate something so important.

Oh, and again I totally agree - the argument that you don't get them vaccination because the diseases hardly exist is utterly flawed. It's vaccination which have almost got rid of them, and non-vaccination which is bringing them back. 

Though one thing this thread really has achieved for me is totally getting rid of any doubt that we are doing completely the right thing in vaccinating our daughter.


----------



## IvyBaby

I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore. 

Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences. 

As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money. I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry. Just my POV.


----------



## kissikiss

Drazic<3 said:


> Totally agree. Too often is wiki or some other spurious research in some randomers blog listed as 'fact'. Not saying NightKD would be looking at rubbish sources, but I'm a bit fastidious about research - especially when it is being used to validate something so important.
> 
> Oh, and again I totally agree - the argument that you don't get them vaccination because the diseases hardly exist is utterly flawed. It's vaccination which have almost got rid of them, and non-vaccination which is bringing them back.
> 
> Though one thing this thread really has achieved for me is totally getting rid of any doubt that we are doing completely the right thing in vaccination our daughter.

After re-reading what I wrote, and then what you wrote, I should say that I'm not inferring that is what NightKD is doing either - I am genuinely interested in what she found or where the source was from. It comes across as I'm attacking her personally and I'm not (so I'm apologising to her if that's how it sounded :flower: ), I'm just a citation nazi (I'm currently working on a 6 minute powerpoint presentation on zinc finger nucleases, I could go to wikipedia and get 'information', but I'm having to spend my life searching through journals; I currently have 20 lol....)

I too hate when websites or other soft sources (ie newspaper articles) are cited when it's something so important x

:flower:


----------



## Drazic<3

kissikiss said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Totally agree. Too often is wiki or some other spurious research in some randomers blog listed as 'fact'. Not saying NightKD would be looking at rubbish sources, but I'm a bit fastidious about research - especially when it is being used to validate something so important.
> 
> Oh, and again I totally agree - the argument that you don't get them vaccination because the diseases hardly exist is utterly flawed. It's vaccination which have almost got rid of them, and non-vaccination which is bringing them back.
> 
> Though one thing this thread really has achieved for me is totally getting rid of any doubt that we are doing completely the right thing in vaccination our daughter.
> 
> After re-reading what I wrote, and then what you wrote, I should say that I'm not inferring that is what NightKD is doing either - I am genuinely interested in what she found or where the source was from. It comes across as I'm attacking her personally and I'm not (so I'm apologising to her if that's how it sounded :flower: ), I'm just a citation nazi (I'm currently working on a 6 minute powerpoint presentation on zinc finger nucleases, I could go to wikipedia and get 'information', but I'm having to spend my life searching through journals; I currently have 20 lol....)
> 
> I too hate when websites or other soft sources (ie newspaper articles) are cited when it's something so important x
> 
> :flower:Click to expand...

Totally agree hun, it's too important (Uni does that to you hey?!)

I'm sure NightKD knows what we are saying :flower:


----------



## aob1013

IvyBaby said:


> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money. I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry. Just my POV.

And i think people who do decide to vaccinate have thought with their own head :)

I haven't decided to vaccinate Leni because i have been pressurised into a money making industry which in itself makes me laugh, but, because i know vaccinating Leni could potentially safe his life, and will protect him from some of the most deadliest diseases out there. If he got ill, at least i know i have done everything i could of to make sure he didn't get ill.

I bet though, soon as someone gets say, hmm, cancer or some other life threatening condition, they are first to the hospital accepting treatment ;) ... even though it's a money making business and all that hoohar!


----------



## LankyDoodle

Janidog said:


> wyates said:
> 
> 
> Mind you, the diseases they vaccinate against are as well as gone, but the growing threats like tbc they dont?? Unless you pay it privately. For me it makes no sense putting a child thru a physical burden to get vaccinated towards something that hardly exists.
> I have waited a few months but now nurse is nagging me and there have been cases in this country where the nurses file complaints towards the parents if not vaccinating even if the law here says its voluntary...
> 
> I know lets stop vaccinating our children and lets see how quickly the diseases come back :dohh:
> 
> And lets also waste many many many years that scientist have worked on vaccine to prevent spread of the disease.
> 
> The whole point that they hardly exists is because so many children are vaccinated!!!!!Click to expand...

You have to wonder what people's ACTUAL understanding of disease and vaccination against it, is?! Also, people who say they are vaccinated so they won't carry disease home to their unvaccinated child. Errrr, yes you will! On your skin, your clothes, in your hair, on your shoes. It's in the air all around you. Just because you may not contract a disease when coming into contact with it, doesn't mean you cannot carry said disease.


----------



## LankyDoodle

Drazic<3 said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Totally agree. Too often is wiki or some other spurious research in some randomers blog listed as 'fact'. Not saying NightKD would be looking at rubbish sources, but I'm a bit fastidious about research - especially when it is being used to validate something so important.
> 
> Oh, and again I totally agree - the argument that you don't get them vaccination because the diseases hardly exist is utterly flawed. It's vaccination which have almost got rid of them, and non-vaccination which is bringing them back.
> 
> Though one thing this thread really has achieved for me is totally getting rid of any doubt that we are doing completely the right thing in vaccination our daughter.
> 
> After re-reading what I wrote, and then what you wrote, I should say that I'm not inferring that is what NightKD is doing either - I am genuinely interested in what she found or where the source was from. It comes across as I'm attacking her personally and I'm not (so I'm apologising to her if that's how it sounded :flower: ), I'm just a citation nazi (I'm currently working on a 6 minute powerpoint presentation on zinc finger nucleases, I could go to wikipedia and get 'information', but I'm having to spend my life searching through journals; I currently have 20 lol....)
> 
> I too hate when websites or other soft sources (ie newspaper articles) are cited when it's something so important x
> 
> :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree hun, it's too important (Uni does that to you hey?!)
> 
> I'm sure NightKD knows what we are saying :flower:Click to expand...

Uni turned me into a research-addict!!!


----------



## louandivy

Drazic<3 said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Can you link to said research?
> 
> I too would be curious to the research done on this. I have just searched my university journal database, even clicked on the box to include publications that my university does not specifically subscribe to, and I cannot find any studies that have been done suggesting that unvaccinated children have a better immune system than vaccinated children, or that some diseases are worse in vaccinated children as opposed to unvaccinated children.
> 
> I have found several websites (particularly homeopathy/anti vaccine websites) that have inferred this though....
> 
> 2 very different things. Not to come across as all knowledgable, cause I most certainly am not (I don't think anyone really is), but one of my pet peeves is people that state something scientific and don't produce evidence to back up what they have said. Websites do not count. I want to see statistics in those studies, I want to know p values and confidence intervals.
> 
> Here however is an extract from a journal that has been published in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry re: tuburculous meningitis in unvaccinated vs BCG vaccinated children:
> 
> 
> 
> Short term outcome was significantly better in the vaccinated group with 70% of the total severe sequelae and 75% of the total deaths occurring in the unvaccinated group (p = 0.018). Conclusion: Children with TBM who have been vaccinated with BCG appear to maintain better mentation and have a superior outcome. This may in part be explained by the better immune response to infection, as reflected in the higher CSF cell counts in this group in the present study.Click to expand...
> 
> I have other examples, which I can give to anyone interested.Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree. *Too often is wiki or some other spurious research in some randomers blog listed as 'fact'.* Not saying NightKD would be looking at rubbish sources, but I'm a bit fastidious about research - especially when it is being used to validate something so important.
> 
> Oh, and again I totally agree - the argument that you don't get them vaccination because the diseases hardly exist is utterly flawed. It's vaccination which have almost got rid of them, and non-vaccination which is bringing them back.
> 
> Though one thing this thread really has achieved for me is totally getting rid of any doubt that we are doing completely the right thing in vaccinating our daughter.Click to expand...

I'd just like to say that when I was at uni my history lecturer said he would automatically fail anyone who cited Wikipedia in an assignment...so I guess academics feel pretty strongly against it!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Anyone can contribute to Wikipedia can't they?


----------



## louandivy

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Anyone can contribute to Wikipedia can't they?

Yep. BUT I LOVE IT SO MUCH :cry:


----------



## Drazic<3

IvyBaby said:


> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.

Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:


----------



## LankyDoodle

Well I was at uni when the mumps epidemic struck a few years ago. While those poor souls among us who were 'forced' into having the vaccine, during the scare in the 80s, were all fine, there were a lot who actually died or were very damaged... We had deaths from mumps, at our uni! On the other hand, I only know one person with autism - I work with him and he is an 8 year old child. He was not vaccinated - this is something his mum shared with me when I first started offering respite to their family. 

We all know what happened to the dr who made these claims, and the fact he had a vested interest in finding a scapegoat for autism (his own offsprings' experience with autism). 

Forced to make the decision between vaccinating my child against potentially life-threatening diseases (especially in a world where more and more people are deciding not to vaccinate, thereby increasing prevalence of the diseases and thereby her chance of contracting one of them), and not vaccinating because of a very small, debateable, link to autism, I know which option I would (have) take.


----------



## LankyDoodle

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Anyone can contribute to Wikipedia can't they?

Yes the can! And people can rate the contribution as well I think. It's nothing more than an academic (debateable) blog!


----------



## IvyBaby

Drazic<3 said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.

Every coin has two sides. I am more than convinced that last year's swine flu havoc was caused on purpose to sell more vaccines, but again it is just my opinion and I am allowed to voice it here.. or not?


----------



## louandivy

IvyBaby said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.Click to expand...

I think you made a good point. Just because you respect the decision of those who choose not to vaccinate doesn't mean that you are insulting those who do :dohh:


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

I didn't follow likw a sheep. I dud my own research and made an informed and educated descision to vaccinate my son. Just because mums do vaccinate doesn't they are following blindly:nope: xx


----------



## aliss

I just think I am BLESSED as a mother to be able to vaccinate my child - there are millions of women around the world right now whose child will die of an easily curable disease, because they cannot afford access to prevent it. I wonder how some poor woman in rural Africa feels when her child dies of a simple disease, knowing that if her baby was born in the USA, UK, Canada, that baby would be thriving 

Like I said before, I disagree with forced vaccination against parent beliefs - but don't judge me as some sort of sheep for giving a vaccine. I am blessed with that choice and made the right decision for my baby.


----------



## Drazic<3

IvyBaby said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.
> 
> Every coin has two sides. I am more than convinced that last year's swine flu havoc was caused on purpose to sell more vaccines, but again it is just my opinion and I am allowed to voice it here.. or not?Click to expand...

You were suggesting vaccination comes with a lack of thought, of which only non-v are capable of. That is attacking those who vaccinate. I sure as hell researched it, and that wasn't putting 'vaccinations' into google.

I didn't get a swine flu vac because I researched it and didn't think it was right for me or by baby.

Say what you like, doesn't mean everyone will agree with it!


----------



## Drazic<3

aliss said:


> I just think I am BLESSED as a mother to be able to vaccinate my child - there are millions of women around the world right now whose child will die of an easily curable disease, because they cannot afford access to prevent it. I wonder how some poor woman in rural Africa feels when her child dies of a simple disease, knowing that if her baby was born in the USA, UK, Canada, that baby would be thriving
> 
> Like I said before, I disagree with forced vaccination against parent beliefs - but don't judge me as some sort of sheep for giving a vaccine. I am blessed with that choice and made the right decision for my baby.

Totally agree.


----------



## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.Click to expand...

No, maybe not, but that's how it came out, if you knew how it was going to sound maybe you should have reworded it differently, and said, it's not an attack on people who thought with their own head but chose TO vaccinate. 

I'm sure the majority of us aren't sheep, whatever we choose to do. And I'm sure most of us think with our heads, even if we don't agree.

As a side note, I think it's safe to say that most vaccines are cheaper than the cost to treat the actual disease (hospital stays, diagnostic tests, etc). I'm not saying that everyone who isn't vaccinated will have to deal with treatment, but most routine vaccines aren't really exactly a money making venture for drug companies....other drugs, ie retrovirals, some cancer drugs are tho...

And I'm a liar cause I said I wouldn't get involved in this thread lol :dohh:


----------



## IvyBaby

Drazic<3 said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.
> 
> Every coin has two sides. I am more than convinced that last year's swine flu havoc was caused on purpose to sell more vaccines, but again it is just my opinion and I am allowed to voice it here.. or not?Click to expand...
> 
> You were suggesting vaccination comes with a lack of thought, of which only non-v are capable of. That is attacking those who vaccinate. I sure as hell researched it, and that wasn't putting 'vaccinations' into google.
> 
> I didn't get a swine flu vac because I researched it and didn't think it was right for me or by baby.
> 
> Say what you like, doesn't mean everyone will agree with it!Click to expand...


I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I was not implying that mothers follow like sheep.. rather than that pharmaceutical companies would like people to accept what they produce without much fuss and thus increase their profits. A lot of people do not question medical advice and that is wrong in my opinion.


----------



## helen1234

i vaccinated my child so they don't die of measles,Measles should not be taken lightly as you can never tell who will go on to develop the more serious complications of pneumonia and encephalitis.

there's overwhelming evidence why vaccines are safe. there's not a shred of evidence to say there's a link between mmr and autism. 

everyone can have a choice on wether to vaccinate their child and thats ok, however i wouldnt gamble my childs life in that way. 
i wonder of those parents who lost their child because they didnt vaccinate regret it now, alot more than i regret vaccinating my children i bet!


----------



## IvyBaby

kissikiss said:


> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.Click to expand...
> 
> I think you made a good point. Just because you respect the decision of those who choose not to vaccinate doesn't mean that you are insulting those who do :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> *No, maybe not, but that's how it came out, if you knew how it was going to sound maybe you should have reworded it differently, and said, it's not an attack on people who thought with their own head but chose TO vaccinate. *
> 
> I'm sure the majority of us aren't sheep, whatever we choose to do. And I'm sure most of us think with our heads, even if we don't agree.
> 
> As a side note, I think it's safe to say that most vaccines are cheaper than the cost to treat the actual disease (hospital stays, diagnostic tests, etc). I'm not saying that everyone who isn't vaccinated will have to deal with treatment, but most routine vaccines aren't really exactly a money making venture for drug companies....other drugs, ie retrovirals, some cancer drugs are tho...
> 
> And I'm a liar cause I said I wouldn't get involved in this thread lol :dohh:Click to expand...

From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.


----------



## AppleBlossom

Wasn't going to add anything but what the hell. I got my child vaccinated to build up her immunity to some extremely serious illnesses. Measles can KILL. I didn't at any point think, well everyone else is doing it. I thought about it in realistic terms. Did I want my child to have the best chance at not contracting what could be a fatal illness by letting her have the jabs or did I want to take the chance that she may actually get it and be very ill or worse from it just because I didn't believe in following what the pharmaceutical companies say. I don't think it's a case of them making money, I think it's more a case of giving correct information in order to save lives.


----------



## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.

I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xx


----------



## Drazic<3

IvyBaby said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> I know of two cases (one from BnB and one happened in my town) where the child died from the reaction to vaccine... Lexi has received two sets but I won't be going for the third one as I don't want to take that risk anymore.
> 
> Not everything that is recommended by medical society is safe or useful. Think about dental amalgams, they contain up to 45% mercury. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that putting the most toxic heavy metal in our mouths can lead to consequences.
> 
> As for vaccines... I just don't trust the medical advice that much. A lot of it is driven by pharmaceutical companies whose only aim is to make more money.* I bow my head to those who can think with their own head and refuse to be pressurized into doing something by this huge money making industry.* Just my POV.
> 
> Yeah, I vaccinated my daughter because I am a sheep who blindly let big business poison my daughter without thought. Stupid me couldn't handle the pressure! :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I knew people would react in this way. I was not attacking those who vaccinate, just supporting those who choose not to.
> 
> Every coin has two sides. I am more than convinced that last year's swine flu havoc was caused on purpose to sell more vaccines, but again it is just my opinion and I am allowed to voice it here.. or not?Click to expand...
> 
> You were suggesting vaccination comes with a lack of thought, of which only non-v are capable of. That is attacking those who vaccinate. I sure as hell researched it, and that wasn't putting 'vaccinations' into google.
> 
> I didn't get a swine flu vac because I researched it and didn't think it was right for me or by baby.
> 
> Say what you like, doesn't mean everyone will agree with it!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I was not implying that mothers follow like sheep.. rather than that pharmaceutical companies would like people to accept what they produce without much fuss and thus increase their profits. A lot of people do not question medical advice and that is wrong in my opinion.Click to expand...

And a lot of people accept sensationalist headlines and blogs against medical advise as gospel which is wrong. Just because you accept medical advice, doesn't mean you haven't clarified it.

Lot cheaper to vac than too treat people for illness, so surely the big evil pharmaceuticals would prefer us to not vac and get sick?


----------



## IvyBaby

kissikiss said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...

Thanks hun! :flower:

Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.


----------



## Lu28

IvyBaby said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.Click to expand...

Just one thing to point out, you mentioned a baby on BnB dying from vaccines, if it's the case I think you might be thinking of, they never actually knew that for certain, it was a comment from one of the paramedics before any tests were carried out and quickly retracted by the hospital xx


----------



## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them.Click to expand...

but my problem with this is a) do you know your child has sensitivities to any of the ingredients? If so, fair dos. Now, b) have you done research as to the incidence of reaction amongst children who were vaccinated vs the risk of serious complications from illness including death of those children who weren't vaccinated to protect against a disease? If not, you need to, and if you have looked at proper sources, and you are happy with the comparisons, again, fair dos xx

I hope I'm not being condescending, just serious reaction from vaccines is very, very rare x


----------



## IvyBaby

Lu28 said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.Click to expand...
> 
> Just one thing to point out, you mentioned a baby on BnB dying from vaccines, if it's the case I think you might be thinking of, they never actually knew that for certain, it was a comment from one of the paramedics before any tests were carried out and quickly retracted by the hospital xxClick to expand...

I don't remember who posted this but it was a perfectly healthy baby (that's what I understood from the post) who died suddenly after receiving the vaccine- the same night. There was a similar story on the news when I was visiting home and I was told that another baby died in my town after a vaccine too. If nothing else, it made me cautious and think twice before putting these chemicals in my daughter's body. I'd rather think how to raise her immunity naturally and how to protect her from the possibility of contracting those illnesses. :flower:


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## IvyBaby

kissikiss said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them.Click to expand...
> 
> but my problem with this is a) do you know your child has sensitivities to any of the ingredients? If so, fair dos. Now, b) have you done research as to the incidence of reaction amongst children who were vaccinated vs the risk of serious complications from illness including death of those children who weren't vaccinated to protect against a disease? If not, you need to, and if you have looked at proper sources, and you are happy with the comparisons, again, fair dos xx
> 
> I hope I'm not being condescending, just serious reaction from vaccines is very, very rare xClick to expand...

:) When I do look at sources, I look at respectable ones because I worked in cancer research for years and am familiar with scientific publications. It is a very controversial subject and I am not sure what to believe myself, the possible consequences are scary and when it comes to my daughter I am paranoid. Like every mom I want to do what is best for her, but it does not mean that I always do :) Therefore I am trying to educate myself as much as possible but there are still a lot of unknowns....


----------



## nicholatmn

Ivybaby - did you happen to glance at my journal or something? A few weeks ago one of my friends had her little boy vaccinated and he died that night. I wrote about it in there. :flower:

ETA: https://www.babyandbump.com/parenting-journals/354500-our-little-aeri-111.html#post7427613


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## LankyDoodle

IvyBaby said:


> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.Click to expand...
> 
> Just one thing to point out, you mentioned a baby on BnB dying from vaccines, if it's the case I think you might be thinking of, they never actually knew that for certain, it was a comment from one of the paramedics before any tests were carried out and quickly retracted by the hospital xxClick to expand...
> 
> I don't remember who posted this but it was a perfectly healthy baby (that's what I understood from the post) who died suddenly after receiving the vaccine- the same night. There was a similar story on the news when I was visiting home and I was told that another baby died in my town after a vaccine too. If nothing else, it made me cautious and think twice before putting these chemicals in my daughter's body. I'd rather think how to raise her immunity naturally and *how to protect her from the possibility of contracting those illnesses*. :flower:Click to expand...

Keep her in a perfectly sterile bubble. Seriously. :flower:

Not meaning to sound rude when I say that, but apart from vaccination there really is not another way to protect her from these diseases. You can minimise risk, but not to the level that vaccination will do so.


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## LankyDoodle

nicholatmn said:


> Ivybaby - did you happen to glance at my journal or something? A few weeks ago one of my friends had her little boy vaccinated and he died that night. I wrote about it in there. :flower:
> 
> ETA: https://www.babyandbump.com/parenting-journals/354500-our-little-aeri-111.html#post7427613

There was also another baby (his mum's friend had also posted the story, much like you). This was in the UK, though, and the paramedics had made a flippant, passing comment about it maybe relating to the vaccines. I believe the little boy may have been called Oliver??


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## IvyBaby

LankyDoodle said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
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> Lu28 said:
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> 
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> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
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> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.Click to expand...
> 
> Just one thing to point out, you mentioned a baby on BnB dying from vaccines, if it's the case I think you might be thinking of, they never actually knew that for certain, it was a comment from one of the paramedics before any tests were carried out and quickly retracted by the hospital xxClick to expand...
> 
> I don't remember who posted this but it was a perfectly healthy baby (that's what I understood from the post) who died suddenly after receiving the vaccine- the same night. There was a similar story on the news when I was visiting home and I was told that another baby died in my town after a vaccine too. If nothing else, it made me cautious and think twice before putting these chemicals in my daughter's body. I'd rather think how to raise her immunity naturally and *how to protect her from the possibility of contracting those illnesses*. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> Keep her in a perfectly sterile bubble. Seriously. :flower:
> 
> Not meaning to sound rude when I say that, but apart from vaccination there really is not another way to protect her from these diseases. You can minimise risk, but not to the level that vaccination will do so.Click to expand...

Vaccination does not protect 100% either.


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## LankyDoodle

IvyBaby said:


> LankyDoodle said:
> 
> 
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> IvyBaby said:
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> Lu28 said:
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> IvyBaby said:
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> 
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> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.Click to expand...
> 
> Just one thing to point out, you mentioned a baby on BnB dying from vaccines, if it's the case I think you might be thinking of, they never actually knew that for certain, it was a comment from one of the paramedics before any tests were carried out and quickly retracted by the hospital xxClick to expand...
> 
> I don't remember who posted this but it was a perfectly healthy baby (that's what I understood from the post) who died suddenly after receiving the vaccine- the same night. There was a similar story on the news when I was visiting home and I was told that another baby died in my town after a vaccine too. If nothing else, it made me cautious and think twice before putting these chemicals in my daughter's body. I'd rather think how to raise her immunity naturally and *how to protect her from the possibility of contracting those illnesses*. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> Keep her in a perfectly sterile bubble. Seriously. :flower:
> 
> Not meaning to sound rude when I say that, but apart from vaccination there really is not another way to protect her from these diseases. You can minimise risk, but not to the level that vaccination will do so.Click to expand...
> 
> Vaccination does not protect 100% either.Click to expand...

I didn't say it did. What I said was '_to the level that vaccination will do so'_


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## IvyBaby

nicholatmn said:


> Ivybaby - did you happen to glance at my journal or something? A few weeks ago one of my friends had her little boy vaccinated and he died that night. I wrote about it in there. :flower:
> 
> ETA: https://www.babyandbump.com/parenting-journals/354500-our-little-aeri-111.html#post7427613

I am so sorry about your friend hun.. I will read it :hugs:


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## IvyBaby

LankyDoodle said:


> IvyBaby said:
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> LankyDoodle said:
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> IvyBaby said:
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> Lu28 said:
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> IvyBaby said:
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> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> From my experience I can say that however I word it there would always be people who would take the wrong meaning and feel insulted by what I say.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way hunni, I for one respect your decision, and even though I strongly support vaccination, I would never support someone like the government telling you that you HAVE to do it; we don't live in a Draconian state. I just really think it's important to get the facts from reliable sources before making decisions xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun! :flower:
> 
> Of course vaccines do save lives, but, like others mentioned, the ingredients that they contain or used to contain before can lead to severe consequences in sensitive children. That is my main problem with them. I think it is horrible to force anything on parents! It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses.Click to expand...
> 
> Just one thing to point out, you mentioned a baby on BnB dying from vaccines, if it's the case I think you might be thinking of, they never actually knew that for certain, it was a comment from one of the paramedics before any tests were carried out and quickly retracted by the hospital xxClick to expand...
> 
> I don't remember who posted this but it was a perfectly healthy baby (that's what I understood from the post) who died suddenly after receiving the vaccine- the same night. There was a similar story on the news when I was visiting home and I was told that another baby died in my town after a vaccine too. If nothing else, it made me cautious and think twice before putting these chemicals in my daughter's body. I'd rather think how to raise her immunity naturally and *how to protect her from the possibility of contracting those illnesses*. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> Keep her in a perfectly sterile bubble. Seriously. :flower:
> 
> Not meaning to sound rude when I say that, but apart from vaccination there really is not another way to protect her from these diseases. You can minimise risk, but not to the level that vaccination will do so.Click to expand...
> 
> Vaccination does not protect 100% either.Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say it did. What I said was '_to the level that vaccination will do so'_Click to expand...

I know :) Just saying that nothing is perfect.


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## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> :) When I do look at sources, I look at respectable ones because I worked in cancer research for years and am familiar with scientific publications. It is a very controversial subject and I am not sure what to believe myself, the possible consequences are scary and when it comes to my daughter I am paranoid. Like every mom I want to do what is best for her, but it does not mean that I always do :) Therefore I am trying to educate myself as much as possible but there are still a lot of unknowns....

Fair enough :flower: 

And not to keep dredging up the importance of citations, but could you please provide where this is from? I would like to read it xx



> It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnesses

I am curious as to what constitutes each of these things as illnesses or accidents (getting a bruise could be an accident, a cold is an illness, I had a typo on my medical chart, this could be a medical error, etc)


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## IvyBaby

kissikiss said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> :) When I do look at sources, I look at respectable ones because I worked in cancer research for years and am familiar with scientific publications. It is a very controversial subject and I am not sure what to believe myself, the possible consequences are scary and when it comes to my daughter I am paranoid. Like every mom I want to do what is best for her, but it does not mean that I always do :) Therefore I am trying to educate myself as much as possible but there are still a lot of unknowns....
> 
> Fair enough :flower:
> 
> And not to keep dredging up the importance of citations, but could you please provide where this is from? I would like to read it xx
> 
> 
> 
> It is also a fact that more people die from medical errors every year than from accidents and many illnessesClick to expand...
> 
> I am curious as to what constitutes each of these things as illnesses or accidents (getting a bruise could be an accident, a cold is an illness, I had a typo on my medical chart, this could be a medical error, etc)Click to expand...

I will lok it up when i get more time! :)

Accidents that end fatally.. 
Medical errors, as I understand, in this case refer to erroneous prescriptions, drug side effects etc.


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## Justagirlxx

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
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> venusrockstar said:
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> Justagirlxx said:
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> venusrockstar said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Please see my post above. Everyone IS entitled to have their own opinion. But when your opinion THREATENS MY FREEDOM... I think not.
> 
> That makes no sense. What about my childs freedom then?Click to expand...
> 
> I am not in any way, shape, or form threatening your child's freedom. I am not telling you that you cannot vaccinate your child. I am not telling you that you shouldn't have control over your child's medical care. But by telling me you wish the government would *forcibly sterilize my child*, you ARE threatening my freedom.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not that I want you to force it on your child, I just want to have the option of having my daughter in a school where children are vaccinated, without having to pay MORE to go to a private school...I shouldn't have to do that either just to protect my child.Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to retract your statements when you get backed into a corner. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> And you seem to attack everyone who disagrees with you.Click to expand...

Oh please excuse me for getting worked up about someone wanting to FORCIBLY vaccinate my child, when vaccines are SHOWN to cause death, paralysis, and seizures.


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## IvyBaby

Unfortunately all drugs have side effects :( That is why this subject is so controversial. Don't we always worry?! Especially because there is so much unknown, unexplored... and it is about our children. 
I guess if one wanted to conduct proper research in why vaccines can be dangerous, one would find it difficult to get financing and support.


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## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> I will lok it up when i get more time! :)
> 
> Accidents that end fatally..
> Medical errors, as I understand, in this case refer to erroneous prescriptions, drug side effects etc.

Hmm...if this is the case, I don't really see how it could be reputible.

Drug side effects are hardly medical errors. Side effects do occur with many drugs, and it is impossible to predict when this will happen.

Now erroneous prescriptions, wrong dosage, yeah. But surely not side effects. You can get side effects from taking paracetamol :shrug:

Please when you have time PM me with the link.


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## venusrockstar

Justagirlxx said:


> Oh please excuse me for getting worked up about someone wanting to FORCIBLY vaccinate my child, when vaccines are SHOWN to cause death, paralysis, and seizures.

That's fine. But it's very rare that happens. It's still not worth putting my child at risk of the diseases. I wasn't trying to start debate in the first place. I agreed with a comment someone else said and you went off on me for some reason instead of the original poster of the comment. What's done is done and in the end we all do what we think is best for our LO's :hugs:


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## AppleBlossom

I remember the person who's baby died that you are referring to. And it wasn't confirmed as the reason. And also, out of all the babies on here who have been vaccinated, only one (potentially) died from it. As sad as it is that that poor woman lost her baby I don't think she went on to advocate that people shouldn't vaccinate their children. There are risks with everything but when it comes to vaccinations, the risks of doing it (very very slight risk that the vaccine may not work and result in serious illness) or not doing it (high risk that the child will contract a serious illness as they are in no way protected) in my eyes it just makes sense to vaccinate


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## Mercy2

I think at the end of the day EVERYTHING we do to and for our children MAY have side effects, right down to the first time we dressed them they may have had an adverse reaction to whatever washing detergent we use, or each time we feed them something new there is a slight possibilty that they may have a severe allergic reaction. But that wouldnt mean that we never try anythign new with our children! We just take appropriate precautions and make decisions based upon what we believe to be right! I think that is the same way I feel about my decision to vaccinate! 
Yes there is a potential that she may react in an adverse manner to one of the ingredients, but After looking into the eyes of parents who have lost children I have cared for to diseases with effects that could so easily have been minimised had they been vaccinated, I cant even imagine not going ahead with vaccines! 
I also have a close childhood friend whos brother died (possibly) as a result of an abnormal reaction to the polio vaccine, but still I chose to vaccinate! I guess we can only do what we think is best after weighing up all the options


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## Justagirlxx

venusrockstar said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> Oh please excuse me for getting worked up about someone wanting to FORCIBLY vaccinate my child, when vaccines are SHOWN to cause death, paralysis, and seizures.
> 
> That's fine. But it's very rare that happens. It's still not worth putting my child at risk of the diseases. I wasn't trying to start debate in the first place. I agreed with a comment someone else said and you went off on me for some reason instead of the original poster of the comment. What's done is done and in the end we all do what we think is best for our LO's :hugs:Click to expand...

Yes we all do what we think is best and we should ALL have that choice. If you don't want to start a debate then it's probably best to steer clear of agreeing with taking away another mothers *right to choose.* I saw a couple others agreeing with forced vax and I responded to AOB also. If there was someone else before you I must have missed it.


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## aob1013

Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.


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## helen1234

the vaccine doesnt give 100% immunity, but without it the child has 0% immunity


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## Justagirlxx

aob1013 said:


> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.

What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea... 

You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.


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## louandivy

aob1013 said:


> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.

That pretty much takes away the right to choose though. And I thought the issue was with newborns not vaccinated schoolchildren?


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## IvyBaby

helen1234 said:


> the vaccine doesnt give 100% immunity, but without it the child has 0% immunity

I believe some immunity comes from the mother and the general health is important too. Not everyone who is exposed to germs will contract the disease.


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## aob1013

The issue is all unvaccinated children?


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## IvyBaby

louandivy said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> That pretty much takes away the right to choose though. And I thought the issue was with newborns not vaccinated schoolchildren?Click to expand...

I agree. Nothing much to add.


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## Drazic<3

Justagirlxx said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...

If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases. 

Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it. 

SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.


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## aob1013

I agree Drazic. It's embarassing really that so many people's children suffer and die and we have the choice to not let our kids go through that :wacko: .. they must think we are so ungrateful.


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## AppleBlossom

Drazic<3 said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more :thumbup:


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## Justagirlxx

Drazic<3 said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...

Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?


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## aob1013

Personally, and i don't know about anyone else, i feel sorry for unvaccinated children because of the potential damage them being unvaccinated could cause. Maybe thats why people are so worried as they are so scared for them. I'm also just worried in general about these nasty diseases that are on the rise.


----------



## IvyBaby

Justagirlxx said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways *if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?*Click to expand...

This puzzles me too. Can anyone answer?


----------



## AppleBlossom

I'm not worried about unvaxed kids passing something onto my child. My child is vaccinated. Ok so they aren't 100% effective but it's better than her not having any protection. There is still a minute chance my child could get some horrible illness from an unvaxed child. But it's a much smaller chance than if she was also unvaxed.


----------



## Arcanegirl

Girls, please remember to respect other peoples choices with what they do with their kids. If you cant respect that and start offending others for theit choices then dont comment.


----------



## ricschick

aliss said:


> I just think I am BLESSED as a mother to be able to vaccinate my child - there are millions of women around the world right now whose child will die of an easily curable disease, because they cannot afford access to prevent it. I wonder how some poor woman in rural Africa feels when her child dies of a simple disease, knowing that if her baby was born in the USA, UK, Canada, that baby would be thriving
> 
> Like I said before, I disagree with forced vaccination against parent beliefs - but don't judge me as some sort of sheep for giving a vaccine. I am blessed with that choice and made the right decision for my baby.


what a fantasic point!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:


----------



## Justagirlxx

aob1013 said:


> Personally, and i don't know about anyone else, i feel sorry for unvaccinated children because of the potential damage them being unvaccinated could cause. Maybe thats why people are so worried as they are so scared for them. I'm also just worried in general about these nasty diseases that are on the rise.

How would you feel if I said I feel sorry for your child because of the potential damage him being vaccinated could cause? Wouldn't that be deemed highly offensive?


----------



## ricschick

there was a poster on my daughters class room door today explaining that measels is back in london and to make sure both mmr's have been given. im so glad my children have been vax!!!


----------



## louandivy

Justagirlxx said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Personally, and i don't know about anyone else, i feel sorry for unvaccinated children because of the potential damage them being unvaccinated could cause. Maybe thats why people are so worried as they are so scared for them. I'm also just worried in general about these nasty diseases that are on the rise.
> 
> How would you feel if I said I feel sorry for your child because of the potential damaged him being vaccinated could cause? Wouldn't that be deemed highly offensive?Click to expand...

I agree. I vaxed Ivy but I think people are being SO judgemental of parents who feel strongly against vaccinations, basically implying their children are diseased! I do feel it is slightly irresponsible in high risk areas but in low risk areas there are so few parents who actually choose not to vaccinate their kids I don't see why it is anybody else's business. I don't feel like they are trying to force an anti-vax agenda on anyone else and surelythey are allowed to give their reasons? :shrug:

Sorry that was horribly worded...4 hours sleep last night!


----------



## aob1013

Justagirlxx said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Personally, and i don't know about anyone else, i feel sorry for unvaccinated children because of the potential damage them being unvaccinated could cause. Maybe thats why people are so worried as they are so scared for them. I'm also just worried in general about these nasty diseases that are on the rise.
> 
> How would you feel if I said I feel sorry for your child because of the potential damage him being vaccinated could cause? Wouldn't that be deemed highly offensive?Click to expand...

I wouldn't be offended as it's only an opinion. If you are secure in your choices, then theres no need to get offended. Also, as i know there won't be any damage and he will absolutely find i wouldn't find it offensive.


----------



## freckleonear

Justagirlxx said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?Click to expand...

In 1990 there was a mumps outbreak in a school where 97% of students were vaccinated. 53 of the 54 students who developed mumps had been vaccinated. In 1991 there was a mumps outbreak in a school where 98% of students were vaccinated. 67 of the 68 students who developed mumps had been vaccinated. The outbreaks did not start from the non-vaccinated children. These are just a couple of examples. There is more and more evidence coming to light about large-scale vaccination failure and waning vaccine-induced immunity, particularly for measles and mumps.

Personally I am almost certain that the ingredients in many vaccines have the potential to cause long-term harm. However, the effects are probably quite small and therefore I decided that the risks were less significant than the risks of not vaccinating. I do think it is very naive to claim that there are absolutely no long-term effects from vaccines and unfair to be so judgemental of those who believe that the risks of vaccinating do not outweigh the benefits for their own children.


----------



## Janidog

Justagirlxx said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?Click to expand...

So you're saying an article has been written where African parents are complaining because a charity has been vaccinating children in order to stop the spread of disease????? So then i suggest we stop sending aid to these countries seen as they don't won't our help!!!! And we should ignore all those adverts that reminds us of how lucky we are to have vaccine and that they want money to help African children :dohh:


----------



## Justagirlxx

Janidog said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?Click to expand...
> 
> So you're saying an article has been written where African parents are complaining because a charity has been vaccinating children in order to stop the spread of disease????? So then i suggest we stop sending aid to these countries seen as they don't won't our help!!!! And we should ignore all those adverts that reminds us of how lucky we are to have vaccine and that they want money to help African children :dohh:Click to expand...

There's a world of difference between a charity vaccinating children and a charity forcibly vaccinating children (with armed police officers in tow)


----------



## AppleBlossom

I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative that they get all the help they can get. If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated" I wouldn't need to think twice


----------



## Justagirlxx

AppleBlossom said:


> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative that they get all the help they can get. If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated" I wouldn't need to think twice

Lol you would feel soo differently if you didn't agree with vaccination in the first place. If someone came in and forcibly injected medication (that could possibly cause death) to your child against your will and better judgment you'd be singing a different song.


----------



## IvyBaby

AppleBlossom said:


> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative *that they get all the help they can get*. *If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated"* I wouldn't need to think twice

Would that not be against human rights, or it does not apply to countries like Africa?


----------



## Janidog

Justagirlxx said:


> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?Click to expand...
> 
> So you're saying an article has been written where African parents are complaining because a charity has been vaccinating children in order to stop the spread of disease????? So then i suggest we stop sending aid to these countries seen as they don't won't our help!!!! And we should ignore all those adverts that reminds us of how lucky we are to have vaccine and that they want money to help African children :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> There's a world of difference between a charity vaccinating children and a charity forcibly vaccinating children (with armed police officers in tow)Click to expand...

Im sorry but in order to stop a spread of disease in such poor countries where death is quite high, it needs to be done, and didn't someone on here say that rather then worrying about vaccinating our own we should be vaccinating the poorer countries like Africa, which they are now doing, but now this is wrong according to you :dohh:


----------



## aob1013

Justagirl, i suppose you never take your LO out of the house then? As car fumes/cars/people .. just about everything can cause death? Hey even stuff inside the house can cause death .. :wacko: ...


----------



## AppleBlossom

Justagirlxx said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative that they get all the help they can get. If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated" I wouldn't need to think twice
> 
> Lol you would feel soo differently if you didn't agree with vaccination in the first place. If someone came in and forcibly injected medication (that could possibly cause death) to your child against your will and better judgment you'd be singing a different song.Click to expand...

Why, if you lived in a third world country where babies are dying from easily curable diseases, would you be against vaccination?


----------



## IvyBaby

AppleBlossom said:


> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative *that they get all the help they can get*. *If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated"* I wouldn't need to think twice

Would that not be against human rights, or it does not apply to countries like Africa? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


----------



## AppleBlossom

IvyBaby said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative *that they get all the help they can get*. *If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated"* I wouldn't need to think twice
> 
> Would that not be against human rights, or it does not apply to countries like Africa? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.Click to expand...

I read it the first time you asked. Read my last post


----------



## Justagirlxx

AppleBlossom said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative that they get all the help they can get. If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated" I wouldn't need to think twice
> 
> Lol you would feel soo differently if you didn't agree with vaccination in the first place. If someone came in and forcibly injected medication (that could possibly cause death) to your child against your will and better judgment you'd be singing a different song.Click to expand...
> 
> Why, if you lived in a third world country where babies are dying from easily curable diseases, would you be against vaccination?Click to expand...

I am not against vaccination I am against taking away their right to choose what does and doesn't go into their own bodies. No one has the right to take away another's freedom.


----------



## IvyBaby

AppleBlossom said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative *that they get all the help they can get*. *If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated"* I wouldn't need to think twice
> 
> Would that not be against human rights, or it does not apply to countries like Africa? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.Click to expand...
> 
> I read it the first time you asked. Read my last postClick to expand...

Sorry I did not understand what you are trying to say. I think the point here is that nobody should be forced to accept anything. Go, show, explain, help to understand but actually forcing vaccines on anybody is totally over the top.


----------



## mommyof3co

Also keep in mind in rural Africa where these kids ARE still dying of these diseases they don't have the medical treatment to treat it. They are going without medications, they may not have even clean water or anything else to treat these kids when they get sick. It isn't even a comparison of kids in the US or UK getting the disease because we have a lot more advantages when it comes to that. For most of the diseases they are rarely deadly in a normal healthy child that is getting the right treatment. 

Like I said really early on in this thread all 3 of my boys were exposed to whooping cough by my husband and I a few months ago...NONE of them got it. My youngest got a very slight cough, that was it. Nothing else, he wasn't even sick. We were the only ones here taking care of them to so it's not like when we got sick someone came in and we stayed away or something. We do a lot to keep them healthy without vaccinating, they have very strong immune systems. It's not like they are sickly kids because they have some weak immune system from not having these vaccines. My older two that had vaccines at first were actually more sick as babies than my youngest that had none, I really believe that giving them so many vaccines so young and so close together really compromises their immune system for that first year...which is actually when catching most of these diseases can be the most dangerous.


----------



## freckleonear

aob1013 said:


> Justagirl, i suppose you never take your LO out of the house then? As car fumes/cars/people .. just about everything can cause death? Hey even stuff inside the house can cause death .. :wacko: ...

Yes it's true that there are many harmful things in our everyday lives, cleaning products, toiletries, pesticides on fruit and veg, artificial sweeteners, tobacco smoke, etc. It is up to each individual parent to decide what risks they are prepared to take for their children. Personally I try to limit exposure to anything potentially dangerous as much as I practically can. Just because we are surrounded by harmful chemicals I don't give up and think "ah well a few more won't matter".

However, different people have different opinions on the relative risks. For example, I am not happy for my children to have artificial sweeteners and yet other parents have no problem with them. The usual tune around here seems to be that parents can make whatever decision they like as long as it is best for them, funny how it doesn't seem to apply to vaccines. Parents don't not vaccinate to spite the rest of society, they are doing it because they honestly believe they are doing the best thing for their children.


----------



## Justagirlxx

aob1013 said:


> Justagirl, i suppose you never take your LO out of the house then? As car fumes/cars/people .. just about everything can cause death? Hey even stuff inside the house can cause death .. :wacko: ...

It's funny that you say that because I actually have an air purifier in my car that filters the air. Lol. Anyways I know that I can't protect him from every danger out there but I do the best I can to protect him from things known to cause harm. Just like you do. My main argument on this thread right now isn't actually to vaccinated/not to vaccinate, its about protecting everyones freedom to have this choice.


----------



## aob1013

freckleonear said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Justagirl, i suppose you never take your LO out of the house then? As car fumes/cars/people .. just about everything can cause death? Hey even stuff inside the house can cause death .. :wacko: ...
> 
> Yes it's true that there are many harmful things in our everyday lives, cleaning products, toiletries, pesticides on fruit and veg, artificial sweeteners, tobacco smoke, etc. It is up to each individual parent to decide what risks they are prepared to take for their children. Personally I try to limit exposure to anything potentially dangerous as much as I practically can. *Just because we are surrounded by harmful chemicals I don't give up and think "ah well a few more won't matter".*However, different people have different opinions on the relative risks. For example, I am not happy for my children to have artificial sweeteners and yet other parents have no problem with them. The usual tune around here seems to be that parents can make whatever decision they like as long as it is best for them, funny how it doesn't seem to apply to vaccines. Parents don't not vaccinate to spite the rest of society, they are doing it because they honestly believe they are doing the best thing for their children.Click to expand...

I don't think any parent does.


----------



## louandivy

IvyBaby said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> I see that forced immunisation may seem extreme. But in places like Africa, it's imperative *that they get all the help they can get*. *If I was in the situation they are and someone said to me "You're child HAS to be vaccinated"* I wouldn't need to think twice
> 
> Would that not be against human rights, or it does not apply to countries like Africa? *The road to hell is paved with good intentions*.Click to expand...

Great quote :thumbup:


----------



## freckleonear

aob1013 said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Justagirl, i suppose you never take your LO out of the house then? As car fumes/cars/people .. just about everything can cause death? Hey even stuff inside the house can cause death .. :wacko: ...
> 
> Yes it's true that there are many harmful things in our everyday lives, cleaning products, toiletries, pesticides on fruit and veg, artificial sweeteners, tobacco smoke, etc. It is up to each individual parent to decide what risks they are prepared to take for their children. Personally I try to limit exposure to anything potentially dangerous as much as I practically can. *Just because we are surrounded by harmful chemicals I don't give up and think "ah well a few more won't matter".*However, different people have different opinions on the relative risks. For example, I am not happy for my children to have artificial sweeteners and yet other parents have no problem with them. The usual tune around here seems to be that parents can make whatever decision they like as long as it is best for them, funny how it doesn't seem to apply to vaccines. Parents don't not vaccinate to spite the rest of society, they are doing it because they honestly believe they are doing the best thing for their children.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think any parent does.Click to expand...

Then your question seems a little bit pointless. We all do what we can to protect our children from harm, we just have slightly different priorities depending on what we think are the biggest risks.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

mommyof3co said:


> Also keep in mind in rural Africa where these kids ARE still dying of these diseases they don't have the medical treatment to treat it. They are going without medications, they may not have even clean water or anything else to treat these kids when they get sick*. It isn't even a comparison of kids in the US or UK getting the disease because we have a lot more advantages when it comes to that. For most of the diseases they are rarely deadly in a normal healthy child that is getting the right treatment. *Like I said really early on in this thread all 3 of my boys were exposed to whooping cough by my husband and I a few months ago...NONE of them got it. My youngest got a very slight cough, that was it. Nothing else, he wasn't even sick. We were the only ones here taking care of them to so it's not like when we got sick someone came in and we stayed away or something. We do a lot to keep them healthy without vaccinating, they have very strong immune systems. It's not like they are sickly kids because they have some weak immune system from not having these vaccines. My older two that had vaccines at first were actually more sick as babies than my youngest that had none, I really believe that giving them so many vaccines so young and so close together really compromises their immune system for that first year...which is actually when catching most of these diseases can be the most dangerous.

I strongly disagree, wooping cough still makes young children VERY ill, babies often have to have stays in intensive care when they contract it that's with all the techonology we have in our society, I am a a student nurse, 3rd year students have seen wooping cough in children and babies and it is still sometimes very touch and go in a healthy child whether they pull through or not. Measles again, yes the child may not die but they can often have many side effects of the disease that will seriously affect them for teh rest of their lives.

Yes the medical knowledege, equipment and know how is second to none in the Uk and the US. But certain diseases still affect children to the point of loss of sight, limbs etc and sometimes even death. The diseases some vacs help protect against still present a big challange to treat. Children can go down hill rapidly and with diseases like mealses and wooping cough it is often a fight to get them on the road to recovery. Yes we CAN do it but not before the child goes throug pain, discomfort, confusion and often a stay in hopsital. I would much rather put 'chemicals' into aidan's body than to witness what other student nurses have.
xx


----------



## mommyof3co

Aidan's Mummy said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Also keep in mind in rural Africa where these kids ARE still dying of these diseases they don't have the medical treatment to treat it. They are going without medications, they may not have even clean water or anything else to treat these kids when they get sick*. It isn't even a comparison of kids in the US or UK getting the disease because we have a lot more advantages when it comes to that. For most of the diseases they are rarely deadly in a normal healthy child that is getting the right treatment. *Like I said really early on in this thread all 3 of my boys were exposed to whooping cough by my husband and I a few months ago...NONE of them got it. My youngest got a very slight cough, that was it. Nothing else, he wasn't even sick. We were the only ones here taking care of them to so it's not like when we got sick someone came in and we stayed away or something. We do a lot to keep them healthy without vaccinating, they have very strong immune systems. It's not like they are sickly kids because they have some weak immune system from not having these vaccines. My older two that had vaccines at first were actually more sick as babies than my youngest that had none, I really believe that giving them so many vaccines so young and so close together really compromises their immune system for that first year...which is actually when catching most of these diseases can be the most dangerous.
> 
> I strongly disagree, wooping cough still makes young children VERY ill, babies often have to have stays in intensive care hwne they contract it that's with all the techonology we have in our society, I am a a student nurse, 3rd year students have seen wooping cough in children and babies and it is still sometimes very touch and go in a healthy child whether they pull through or not. Measles again yes the child may not ide but they can often have many side effects of the disease that will seriously affect them for teh rest of their lives.
> 
> Yes the medical knowledege, equipment and know how is second to none in the Uk and the US. But certain diseases still affect children to the point of loss of sight, limbs etc and sometimes even death. The diseases some vacs help protect against still present a big challange to treat. Children can go down hill rapidly and with diseases like mealses and wooping cough it is often a fight to get them on the road to recovery. Yes we CAN do it but not before the child goes throug pain, discomfort, confusion and often a stay in hopsital. I would much rather put 'chemicals' into aidan's body than to witness what other student nurses have.
> xxClick to expand...

I didn't say all the diseases, I said most of them are not THAT serious in a normal healthy child. Either way dealing with any of these illnesses here in the US or UK is completely different than in rural areas of Africa or other similar places. Sometimes these diseases can be very bad in a normal healthy child and sometimes these vaccines can cause very bad side effects and even death in a normal healthy child. 

Our opinion is just different, doesn't make either of us more right. I would rather not put the chemicals in their body and do many other things to keep their immune system strong and deal with what comes up. You are more comfortable with the opposite.


----------



## Justagirlxx

Janidog said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Definately think people have the right to choose, but i do think all schools should have that rule that everyone be up to date. Fab idea.
> 
> What kind of right to choose is that? Yeah segregation sounds like a great idea...
> 
> You guys have such confidence in your vaccines to be so paranoid about the un-vaxed kids. If they are really so effective than why such concern? I don't understand why I should put my child through the risk of death for such questionable protection.Click to expand...
> 
> If you read current and varied medical text the protection is not questionable and the risk of serious incident is minuscule in comparison with the risk of the diseases.
> 
> Can you imagine what people in Africa ect, must think about the luxury that we can chose not to vacinnate their kids when they lose so many children to preventable disease (the majority of which we don't have here due to our medical processes)? I bet they wouldn't fathom it.
> 
> SHOW me what you have read to suggest different and I will consider it. But not biased or unresourced links. They are like getting your facts from the newspapers.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I recently read an article about African parents who were outraged because of forced vaccinations done by UNICEF. (Currently trying to find the article) Anyways if you are so sure about vaccine effectiveness than why are so many of you worried about non-vaxed children infecting your vaxed children?Click to expand...
> 
> So you're saying an article has been written where African parents are complaining because a charity has been vaccinating children in order to stop the spread of disease????? So then i suggest we stop sending aid to these countries seen as they don't won't our help!!!! And we should ignore all those adverts that reminds us of how lucky we are to have vaccine and that they want money to help African children :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> There's a world of difference between a charity vaccinating children and a charity forcibly vaccinating children (with armed police officers in tow)Click to expand...
> 
> Im sorry but in order to stop a spread of disease in such poor countries where death is quite high, it needs to be done, and didn't someone on here say that rather then worrying about vaccinating our own we should be vaccinating the poorer countries like Africa, which they are now doing, but now this is wrong according to you :dohh:Click to expand...

No, forced vaccination doesn't need to be done.* NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO TAKE AWAY ANOTHER'S FREEDOM.* Ever. Period.


----------



## scottishgal89

I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-

My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.

So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!

Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.


----------



## IvyBaby

~daisychain~ said:


> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.

:hugs: Poor little one and you too. It must be so hard for both of you! I would be sick with worry, I hope your little girl improves and never has to suffer from a bad illness. :hugs::hugs:


----------



## SamGames23

Janidog said:


> As much as i don't like my LO having the injections, i don't think i could forgive myself it something went wrong cause i didn't get him vaccinated

This is what I think also.


----------



## scottishgal89

IvyBaby said:


> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.
> 
> :hugs: Poor little one and you too. It must be so hard for both of you! I would be sick with worry, I hope your little girl improves and never has to suffer from a bad illness. :hugs::hugs:Click to expand...


Thanks very much.:hugs:

I saw this thread a while ago but held back from answering.
I haven't read any of the replies as I think they'd upset me.

I think it's a selfish act for someone to make a decision not to vaccinate their child unless theres a very good reason not too. That could compromise someone else's child too, who would have had the vaccinations if they were able too but that option has been taken away from them


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

~daisychain~ said:


> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.

Oh bless her cotton socks. It must have been frustrating hun. How is she doing now? Xx


----------



## scottishgal89

Aidan's Mummy said:


> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.
> 
> Oh bless her cotton socks. It must have been frustrating hun. How is she doing now? XxClick to expand...

Thank you. She's still really not good tbh :cry: xx


----------



## AppleBlossom

~daisychain~ said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.
> 
> Oh bless her cotton socks. It must have been frustrating hun. How is she doing now? XxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you. She's still really not good tbh :cry: xxClick to expand...

:hugs:


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

~daisychain~ said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.
> 
> Oh bless her cotton socks. It must have been frustrating hun. How is she doing now? XxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you. She's still really not good tbh :cry: xxClick to expand...

:hugs::hugs:
xx


----------



## bubbles123

Whilst I completely understand the feeling of not wanting to put unnecessary medicines/drugs into your child, I think you also have to bear in mind that the treatment for these diseases if your child catches them, for example TB and Polio, is long term, serious antibiotics and other drugs (there is still no cure for either). Not something you would want a child to have really and not great for long term health either.


----------



## wishingonastar

~daisychain~ said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.
> 
> 
> :hugs: Poor little one and you too. It must be so hard for both of you! I would be sick with worry, I hope your little girl improves and never has to suffer from a bad illness. :hugs::hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks very much.:hugs:
> 
> I saw this thread a while ago but held back from answering.
> I haven't read any of the replies as I think they'd upset me.
> 
> I think it's a selfish act for someone to make a decision not to vaccinate their child unless theres a very good reason not too. That could compromise someone else's child too, who would have had the vaccinations if they were able too but that option has been taken away from themClick to expand...

i understand your concerns, but i refer back to an earlier comment i made in which i explained that it is not right for adults to point their fingers at unvaccinated children as potential spreaders of disease when most adults have not had boosters for all the different vaccines they received as children and therefore also pose a risk of catching said disease and passing it to others. 

i think people need to stop focusing on the small minority of unvaccinated children given they make a tiny percentage of the population in the grand scheme of things. When you take your little one for their injections why not check you're still immune yourself and put your money where your mouth is :shrug: (this is a generic comment and not aimed specifically at daisychain)


----------



## aob1013

And thank god people that choose not to vaccinate their kids are in the minority, i hope it stays like that!


----------



## wishingonastar

aob1013 said:


> And thank god people that choose not to vaccinate their kids are in the minority, i hope it stays like that!

lol and on that note i give up :roll:


----------



## louandivy

wishingonastar said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> And thank god people that choose not to vaccinate their kids are in the minority, i hope it stays like that!
> 
> lol and on that note i give up :roll:Click to expand...

Haha I was just thinking that!


----------



## scottishgal89

I'm confused...obviously missed something


----------



## freckleonear

aob1013 said:


> And thank god people that choose not to vaccinate their kids are in the minority, i hope it stays like that!

Replace "choose not to vaccinate" with any of the other parenting choices that are regularly debated on this forum and you'd have a riot on your hands. Not vaccinating is something that parents do with their child's best interests at heart and hopefully it will always remain their right to make that decision.


----------



## scottishgal89

So without me going back through the thread.
How is it a positive to leave your child at risk as well as other peoples?!
I don't understand that.


----------



## nicholatmn

~daisychain~ said:


> So without me going back through the thread.
> *How is it a positive to leave your child at risk as well as other peoples?!*
> I don't understand that.

You could also say how is it positive to put diseases into your child?
They all have risks. 
And I still don't see how not vaxing your child puts vaccinated kids at risk. If a non vaccinated child gets a disease, it's not like a vaccinated child hasn't had that disease in their body already. :shrug:


----------



## scottishgal89

nicholatmn said:


> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> So without me going back through the thread.
> *How is it a positive to leave your child at risk as well as other peoples?!*
> I don't understand that.
> 
> You could also say how is it positive to put diseases into your child?
> They all have risks.
> And I still don't see how not vaxing your child puts vaccinated kids at risk. If a non vaccinated child gets a disease, it's not like a vaccinated child hasn't had that disease in their body already. :shrug:Click to expand...

But why would you risk your child getting some of the diseases that these vaccinations protect against?
I didn't say that not vaccinating a child puts a vaccinated child at risk. I made a post on the previous page-




> I've not read this whole thread but just wanted to say-
> 
> My little girl has a rare form of epilepsy and has been on horrendous medications, one of these were injections which meant she couldn't be vaccinated until recently. The only reason my LO was allowed out of the house whilst so immuno compromised was because other babies/ people had been vaccinated so the chances of something being passed on are slim. If my daughter had caught something, it would have killed her.
> 
> So what if she had come into contact with a child who hadn't been vaccinated who passed something on to her?!
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another point of view out there.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this thread a while ago but held back from answering.
> I haven't read any of the replies as I think they'd upset me.
> 
> I think it's a selfish act for someone to make a decision not to vaccinate their child unless theres a very good reason not too. That could compromise someone else's child too, who would have had the vaccinations if they were able too but that option has been taken away from them


----------



## mommyof3co

~daisychain~ said:


> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> So without me going back through the thread.
> *How is it a positive to leave your child at risk as well as other peoples?!*
> I don't understand that.
> 
> You could also say how is it positive to put diseases into your child?
> They all have risks.
> And I still don't see how not vaxing your child puts vaccinated kids at risk. If a non vaccinated child gets a disease, it's not like a vaccinated child hasn't had that disease in their body already. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> But why would you risk your child getting some of the diseases that these vaccinations protect against?
> I didn't say that not vaccinating a child puts a vaccinated child at risk. I made a post on the previous page-Click to expand...

I would read back through the thread, there are a lot of reasons that have been said throughout the thread by those of us who choose not to vaccinate :thumbup:


----------



## scottishgal89

mommyof3co said:


> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> So without me going back through the thread.
> *How is it a positive to leave your child at risk as well as other peoples?!*
> I don't understand that.
> 
> You could also say how is it positive to put diseases into your child?
> They all have risks.
> And I still don't see how not vaxing your child puts vaccinated kids at risk. If a non vaccinated child gets a disease, it's not like a vaccinated child hasn't had that disease in their body already. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> But why would you risk your child getting some of the diseases that these vaccinations protect against?
> I didn't say that not vaccinating a child puts a vaccinated child at risk. I made a post on the previous page-Click to expand...
> 
> I would read back through the thread, there are a lot of reasons that have been said throughout the thread by those of us who choose not to vaccinate :thumbup:Click to expand...

Ok thanks, although I don't think I will.


----------



## nicholatmn

~daisychain~ said:


> nicholatmn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> So without me going back through the thread.
> *How is it a positive to leave your child at risk as well as other peoples?!*
> I don't understand that.
> 
> You could also say how is it positive to put diseases into your child?
> They all have risks.
> And I still don't see how not vaxing your child puts vaccinated kids at risk. If a non vaccinated child gets a disease, it's not like a vaccinated child hasn't had that disease in their body already. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> But why would you risk your child getting some of the diseases that these vaccinations protect against?
> I didn't say that not vaccinating a child puts a vaccinated child at risk. I made a post on the previous page-Click to expand...

I wasn't vaccinated until I was 15 years old (and was only vaccinated with things that I could be without being infertile)... but I have never been in contact with ANY of those diseases. 
My older brother and younger sister were vaccinated, and they were sick every year from the flu... and got many illnesses. I have plaques on the wall with perfect attendance at school from never getting sick. But since I've been vaccinated, I've had tonsilitis every year and get colds (never got that when I was younger). I had a NATURAL immunity. Why mess with that?
And as I posted a few pages back, a ver close friend of mine lost her boy a few hours after being vaccinated. 

There are plently reasons not to-- or at least to delay them so they're still not fresh out of the womb getting things injected into their bodies?


----------



## louandivy

nicholatmn, i'm so sorry about your friends son :(


----------



## nicholatmn

I edited what I just wrote as my laptop threw everything out of order :flower:


----------



## scottishgal89

What vaccination was that following?
Sorry to hear that :(


----------



## nicholatmn

~daisychain~ said:


> What vaccination was that following?
> Sorry to hear that :(

His very first set. Not sure which one caused it, and as of a week ago, the doctors confirmed that it was the shots. My friend didn't go into any details though, but I wont ask.


----------



## aob1013

freckleonear said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> And thank god people that choose not to vaccinate their kids are in the minority, i hope it stays like that!
> 
> Replace "choose not to vaccinate" with any of the other parenting choices that are regularly debated on this forum and you'd have a riot on your hands. Not vaccinating is something that parents do with their child's best interests at heart and hopefully it will always remain their right to make that decision.Click to expand...

I agree, but i am glad it's still in the minority.


----------



## helen1234

IvyBaby said:


> helen1234 said:
> 
> 
> the vaccine doesnt give 100% immunity, but without it the child has 0% immunity
> 
> I believe some immunity comes from the mother and the general health is important too. Not everyone who is exposed to germs will contract the disease.Click to expand...

Even healthy and well-nourished children, if unvaccinated, are at risk of measles and its complications such as pneumonia, encephalitis and, although rare, death

babies carry immunity for approximatly 2 months after they are born.

and no not every child expose to a disease will contract it, but i'm pretty sure you stand my child by the side of a child not vaccinated who is more likely to get poorly.

the reason alot of children skim past these awful illnesses is because of vaccines, if people carry on not vaccinating their children the story will become a very different one.

i wonder how many parents would not cover themselves for malaria and expose themselves and ther children to that as well.


----------



## ellie

I don't think anyone's mind will be changed on this thread :) Disease is a very primal fear !

However, it's made me think a bit more about my OWN vaccinations! Which I've avoided wherever possible ... but actually, it's made me think about that a bit more openly. I do agree that as adults maybe we should all be thinking about that ... a fair bit has been said already about not leaving the 'burden' totally on babies and children and how maybe that's not totally fair of us.

It also reminded me of when I started my job and had to have immunity testing for Hep B (which I'd been previously vaccinated for). The occ health people then put me under a LOT of pressure to have the chickenpox jab right there and then. When I said no (because i wanted to think about it, and was worried about it making me ill plus I hadn't prepared for it) they were very rude, saying that I could maybe kill an elderly person or a pregnant woman and I'd have to live with that then :shock: Shortly after I became pregnant myself ... now, I am sooo glad I didn't have that jab, because who knows what it could have done to my body? If I had the disease in my body because I had the jab recently, could it have stopped me becoming pregnant or killed or harmed the embryo? To this day I feel very angry towards that nurse (who never even asked me whether I could possibly be pregnant or of any reason I should not have the jab) who just aggressively waved a needle at me.
Not quite the same as forced vaccination ... but she didn't want to give me a choice, and that was actually pretty scary, I was just glad I was able to stick up for myself. If she'd had a few armed officers standing behind her, or if I could have been sent to prison for refusing, things could have been so different ........

Just something to think about really. Mothers being sent to prison and their babies left because they didn't comply with forced medical treatment? Just one consequence that doesnt' sound like great progress to me ......... not to mention, in some communist countries, parents regularly "disappear" for not complying with things like mandatory medical treatment. 

Maybe people who are keen to up the vaccination uptakes could brainstorm some better ideas about how to do that with people (including new parents)? I'm sure no one on here is keen to live in a dictatorship :)


----------



## ellie

Sorry to hear that nicholatm and daisychain :hugs:


----------



## Youngling

Iv not read this whole thread as Im sure its just every1 disagreeing with every1s reasons for either their LO's having or not having vacinations, but just wanted to say Jack is having all of his, I just think its important for him to have them done.
However those who decide not to have it done it is entirely up to them, and I think their reasons should be respected
x


----------



## SKATERBUN

Yes but the OP asked this question...

*Not Vaccinating
Just wanted to ask the moms that decided not to vaccinate - what were your reasons? If your children are older, how has their health been? I would really love to know x*

Now OP has not responded so far to the rest of this thread so where has it got us, so far its the same old debate of pro vacinators v's anti vacinators and it goes on and on, we all know everyones opinion is valid and reasons have been well thought out, but tbh its still not answered the question. Its basically have you got an older child who have not been vacinated and how has their health been. I would really like to know even if OP doesn't :D 
(sorry if I've missed anyone who did answer, Its been a long old thread ;))


----------



## mommyof3co

I answered as best I could since my oldest (7) did have some vaccines at first but didn't finish out the series of them..or not all. He's very healthy and even when exposed to whooping cough by my husband and I he didn't get sick at all. He did have one or 2 doses of DTap (which includes pertussis) but didn't finish that series. My youngest who had none of it also didn't get it though. But he very very rarely gets sick and when he does he's better really quickly. They all 3 have very strong immune systems and my youngest who has had no vaccines actually has the strongest, when his brothers get sick and are sick for say 2-5 days just depending on what it is, he's usually better in 24-48hrs. He's only 3 though and not in school yet, but he is still exposed to everything they bring home and we are out a lot, attend a very large church where he is in his own Sunday School class so he's still around a lot of kids. None of them have ever had any of the diseases vaccines protect against but I do hope they get some of them. And no I don't WANT them sick but I would rather them have these diseases at the ages they are now where it is less risky than to have to consider getting them vaccinated later or them getting them later and having an increased chance of long term side effects...like getting mumps and becoming infertile for example. We have a list of ones if we knew of friends that had them we would expose them to.


----------



## AlwaysPraying

So after reading this thread I can't settle on what to do myself. There is so much fear mongerig from both sides it seems. My little one is due to have his first round in half a weeks time and I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait. 

I feel like there's risk on either side and fear on either side. There's been so much arguing and not enough facts. I'm not sure what facts I'm looking for though. I think trust has to come into it. Trusting the system the people in the system and ourselves. I find the whole concept of learning and researching it ourselves go be a very high mountain to climb. I'm not sure what tests are paid for by medical companies or drug companies. And I don't know if I'd truly understand the information anyways. 

So what do we do? Leave our kids compromised or put chemicals into their bodies? Is it that simple to decide and pick one of those choices?


----------



## mommyof3co

AlwaysPraying said:


> So after reading this thread I can't settle on what to do myself. There is so much fear mongerig from both sides it seems. My little one is due to have his first round in half a weeks time and I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait.
> 
> I feel like there's risk on either side and fear on either side. There's been so much arguing and not enough facts. I'm not sure what facts I'm looking for though. I think trust has to come into it. Trusting the system the people in the system and ourselves. I find the whole concept of learning and researching it ourselves go be a very high mountain to climb. I'm not sure what tests are paid for by medical companies or drug companies. And I don't know if I'd truly understand the information anyways.
> 
> So what do we do? Leave our kids compromised or put chemicals into their bodies? Is it that simple to decide and pick one of those choices?


All I can recommend is educate yourself as much as you can. Even if you need to delay for a few weeks to do so..that amount of time isn't going to make much difference if you decide to get him vaccinated. But that way you are comfortable in your choice. A GREAT book is Dr. Sears Vaccine Book...it's a very neutral book, talks about the risks and benefits very well and he even gives a delayed schedule if you decide to follow that instead of the normal schedule. But it's a great book. But you can also read on the CDC's website about each disease, also about the vaccines. I really like 909shot.com too, prob would be considered a bit anti vaccine BUT it sites all studies and if you use it in combination with other sites like the CDC you can still gather a lot of good information on both sides. Good luck with your decision :flower:


----------



## Nimyra

AlwaysPraying,

There are a number of books written on the subject for lay people like us. Ultimately every choice you make as a parent is like this. There is always more than one point of view and you have to decide whether or not to trust the official recommendations, whether or not to make accommodations based on what you know about your baby, how much weight to give to other people's advice and opinions, and most of all, what is in your heart. 

For me, I read as much as I can to get as many facts as possible (I'll never have them all) and then I ask myself - what risks can I live with. I ask myself "can I forgive myself if I make this decision and am wrong, how about if I make the other decision and am wrong." Then I go with my gut instinct - because my gut instinct is my connection to my unique child who is not like any other child in the world. Policies and guidelines are not meant to be applied to all babies indiscriminantly. They are just guidelines.

You will know what is best for your baby and your family when the time comes.


----------



## bambino156

Genuine question ladies, if your child is unvaxed and got seriously ill how would you feel about the many drugs they may need to treat the disease? Also, would it make you reconsider vaccinating your child/subsequent children in the future? Thanks


----------



## Nimyra

bambino156 said:


> Genuine question ladies, if your child is unvaxed and got seriously ill how would you feel about the many drugs they may need to treat the disease? Also, would it make you reconsider vaccinating your child/subsequent children in the future? Thanks

Did you have a specific illness in mind? I'm comfortable with my child receiving antibiotics (for Whooping Cough for example). Rotovirus (diarrhea) treatment just involves giving babies fluids (breastmilk and/or formula). Measles treatment looks to be the same, unless there are complications. I'm comfortable with my child receiving fever reducers. And God forbid, my child did have complications (which can occur whether she is vaccinated or not), I would certainly take her to the hospital!

If we travel anywhere where Polio cases occur, my LO will receive that vaccine. I take these things case by case.


----------



## louandivy

Nimyra said:


> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> Genuine question ladies, if your child is unvaxed and got seriously ill how would you feel about the many drugs they may need to treat the disease? Also, would it make you reconsider vaccinating your child/subsequent children in the future? Thanks
> 
> Did you have a specific illness in mind? I'm comfortable with my child receiving antibiotics (for Whooping Cough for example). Rotovirus (diarrhea) treatment just involves giving babies fluids (breastmilk and/or formula). Measles treatment looks to be the same, unless there are complications. I'm comfortable with my child receiving fever reducers. And God forbid, my child did have complications (which can occur whether she is vaccinated or not), I would certainly take her to the hospital!
> 
> If we travel anywhere where Polio cases occur, my LO will receive that vaccine. I take these things case by case.Click to expand...

To be honest, I actually quite admire your approach to vaccines as you have clearly thought it through (far more than I thought through getting my LO vaccinnated really) but you still remain open-minded in higher risk situations. I hope you don't receive too much judgement on your decision from others as you really don't deserve it!


----------



## joeyjo

I am still reading this thread and haven't read all the replies yet.

I am a firm believer in vaccination, it has saved millions of lives across the globe and erradicated 2 diseases (small pox in people and rinderpest in cattle). I believe the risks associated with vaccinations are very small and that the risk of the disease is much greater. Vaccinating my child provides benefits not only for him but for others as well. 

A lot of people choose not to vaccinate because they feel the risk of the disease is minimal because everybody else is vaccinated. This "umbrella cover" is very important it means that risks for children who cannot be vaccinated (due to cancer, immune system problems etc) are greatly reduced, if more and more people choose not to vaccinate then this "umbrella cover" gets weaker and weaker.

I looked carefully at a lot of research before deciding to vaccinate and I have been a little selective. My son was offered Hep B vaccine - I declined as at the moment he is not sexually active, an i/v drug user or living in an endemic area likely to come into contact with infected blood. I have also chosen to delay the MMR vaccine until we are through the winter as he seems to catch every cold going and I want his immune system to be free to tackle it effectively. He was not offered the BCG vaccine for TB but as I come into contact with animals with TB through my work and because it is increasing in incidience across the UK I will likely request it in the next few years.

EDIT - I also delayed vaccines as he was still receiving breastmilk and antibodies from me.


----------



## Nimyra

Sounds like your decisions are well thought out, joeyjo. 

I don't know what country you are in, but here, hep B is one of the "required" vaccines prior to starting school/daycare. It is madness that the government thinks my baby is at risk of this disease. My LO will not be receiving this vaccine until she is a teenager. 

Where you live are you allowed to opt out of some vaccines but not others prior to starting school/daycare?

Genuinely curious, thanks!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

We can opt out of any here, I believe. I know Ruby's childminder does not require her to have all offered vaccinations, she delayed her own daughters' too.


----------



## joeyjo

I'm not sure there are any required vaccines for school etc in the UK - I believe they are all optional but I may be wrong.

I currently live in the Uk although my son was born in Switzerland and that is where I was offered (& declined) Hep B. I don't think Hep B is given routinely in the UK.


----------



## lily123

I am having Esmee vaccinated.

Just to put in my 2 cents... My mum didn't have me or my brothers vaccinated, and personally i wish she had! All my memories from me being young are just of me being ill. I caught quite a lot of things that could have easily been prevented, i had Rubella, mumps, whooping cough, and a mild case of Diptheria (was in hospital for 2 months).

my brothers on the other hand, were absolutely fine and have hardly ever been ill in their entire lives :haha: 

This is just my personal experience, and i'm not disrespecting anyone who chooses not to vaccinate as of course it's their choice. 

xx


----------



## mommyof3co

Nimyra said:


> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> Genuine question ladies, if your child is unvaxed and got seriously ill how would you feel about the many drugs they may need to treat the disease? Also, would it make you reconsider vaccinating your child/subsequent children in the future? Thanks
> 
> Did you have a specific illness in mind? I'm comfortable with my child receiving antibiotics (for Whooping Cough for example). Rotovirus (diarrhea) treatment just involves giving babies fluids (breastmilk and/or formula). Measles treatment looks to be the same, unless there are complications. I'm comfortable with my child receiving fever reducers. And God forbid, my child did have complications (which can occur whether she is vaccinated or not), I would certainly take her to the hospital!
> 
> If we travel anywhere where Polio cases occur, my LO will receive that vaccine. I take these things case by case.Click to expand...

I feel the same as you, it really depends on the illness. And if we were somewhere polio was around we would get that vaccine as well. And consider others as they get older if we feel getting the illness at that time could be more dangerous for them.

Oh and no it wouldn't change my mind about vaccinating other kids. We know them getting sick is a risk we are taking and we actually want them to have some of these illnesses and to recover from them :)


----------



## scottishgal89

What if they don't?


----------



## mommyof3co

~daisychain~ said:


> What if they don't?


If they don't what?


----------



## scottishgal89

> We know them getting sick is a risk we are taking and we actually want them to have some of these illnesses and to recover from them

That to me is an extreme risk to take with a child.
They may not recover.


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## mommyof3co

They are normal healthy kids with very strong immune systems. Most of these diseases in their age group are not that serious, yes some can be, but in most cases it isn't. I get that you don't understand it but this is the choice we have made and are comfortable with. We have made an educated decision on what is best for our kids. To me it's an extreme risk to do some of these vaccines.


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## scottishgal89

But your children could have an underlying medical condition that hasn't presented itself yet?!
If they did fall ill then they possibly wouldn't pull threw.
My daughter may not have lived threw a cold at one point...


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## Justagirlxx

Daisychain the entire point of not vaccinating is because we believe the risks of the vaccines are greater than the risks of contracting the diseases. Obviously if a child did not recover from a serious disease that would be horrible and unthinkable. Same as it is horrible and unthinkable when a child dies or never recovers from an adverse vaccine reaction.


----------



## mommyof3co

I think it's hard for you to understand because of your daughter, and I really don't mean that in a mean way or anything. But you look at things differently because of her being sick. I know my kids are healthy, they have been sick, I know how their body reacts, I know their immune system which is stronger than a lot of kids their age. They are VERY healthy kids. They eat healthy, we wash hands constantly, we take supplements to boost their immune system too, especially during flu season. We are comfortable with the risk we are taking, we understand these diseases, we know the chances of them having a severe case of it, we know the treatment, we understand it all. It all depends on what you feel most comfortable with, what you feel is right for your kids....neither of us is more right. If I was in your position I would more than likely be getting the vaccines, but I'm not and we have different point of views.


----------



## scottishgal89

Ok. Sorry.


----------



## NG09

mommyof3co said:


> Nimyra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> Genuine question ladies, if your child is unvaxed and got seriously ill how would you feel about the many drugs they may need to treat the disease? Also, would it make you reconsider vaccinating your child/subsequent children in the future? Thanks
> 
> Did you have a specific illness in mind? I'm comfortable with my child receiving antibiotics (for Whooping Cough for example). Rotovirus (diarrhea) treatment just involves giving babies fluids (breastmilk and/or formula). Measles treatment looks to be the same, unless there are complications. I'm comfortable with my child receiving fever reducers. And God forbid, my child did have complications (which can occur whether she is vaccinated or not), I would certainly take her to the hospital!
> 
> If we travel anywhere where Polio cases occur, my LO will receive that vaccine. I take these things case by case.Click to expand...
> 
> I feel the same as you, it really depends on the illness. And if we were somewhere polio was around we would get that vaccine as well. And consider others as they get older if we feel getting the illness at that time could be more dangerous for them.
> 
> Oh and no it wouldn't change my mind about vaccinating other kids. We know them getting sick is a risk we are taking and we actually want them to have some of these illnesses and to recover from them :)Click to expand...

Not being rude but are you nuts???? Why would you want your child to get ill??? What if they don't recover?? Then what :shrug:


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## aob1013

Highly doubt they would recover tbh seen as they have no protection from anything :wacko:


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## ellie

I think mommyof3co's decision should be treated with as much respect as anyone else's. Tbh she is always very brave and open in speaking out about her decisions which as they are not necessarily the 'norm', she is always more than willing to discuss it in an informative and rational way (more than you can say for some people on here!)

Not really fair for reactionary posts to be so rude about it and I don't see how anyone has any right to be so rude just because some don't share those views. And tbh it's pretty offensive to start implying, without any real basis for it, that someone's children are disease ridden / about to fall over and die / rampaging the country infecting people like they're in 28 Days Later or something :wacko: I don't see anyone saying "Your kids are about to become ill and die because you gave them vaccines" .....

Just a little open mindedness and respect goes a long way.

Daisychain, I was about to say what had been said earlier, it will be hard fo ryou to understand because of your situation. I wasn't sure whether you were asking your questions because you were trying to feel reassured about children who hadn't been vaccinated, because yours hasn't and you are worried, or whether you were just trying to understand the position of someone who doesn't vaccinate. Anyway I hope your daughter goes from strength to strength :hugs:


----------



## aob1013

I think to many people the prospect of not vaccinating, it just gobsmacking and people have a real time trying to understand it and nobody can really give and reason not to do it. It must be especially hard for daisychain, :hugs: hun xxx


----------



## mommyof3co

Are you kidding me???? Do you really think they are walking around with NO immune system? A vaccine is NOT the only thing that can build and immune system. As I already said they have been exposed to whooping cough by me and my husband, they were around it for weeks with us having it. NONE of them got it. They have had colds, they are in school and have been exposed to many things and have built up an immune system naturally. I think some of you need to do more research on the actual diseases before saying something like "i highly doubt they would recover seeing they have no protection from anything" that's just ridiculous to say. 

You are acting like I've given my child a death sentence. 

And no, I don't WANT them sick. But kids get sick, I would much rather them have SOME of these diseases than what is in the vaccine. That statement would be like me saying "not trying to be rude but are you nuts??????? you want your child to have all these toxins that can have horrible side effects injected into their body?????? what if they die??? then what." I mean it's the same thing. I haven't said one negative thing about anyone who chooses to vaccinate, I haven't implied that anyone is wrong or crazy, please don't act like I am.

And Daisychain, my response wasn't to be rude. Just trying to say that from our experiences we look at this issue from completely different sides of the fence.


----------



## NG09

^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.


----------



## mommyof3co

NG09 said:


> ^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.


As it's been said many times your newborn is at as much risk from a vaccinated child as they are from an unvaccinated child. A vaccinated child can still be exposed to the disease and get a very mild form (or the full blown disease) but if it's mild they may not realize what it is and easily pass it onto your newborn. And also some vaccines shed so putting your newborn around newly vaccinated kids could be a risk too. Unvaccinated kids are no more of a risk, it's not like they are carrying around the disease.


----------



## polo_princess

Tbf to MO3 it was actually her that gave me a little food for thought when it came to vaccines and to do a little research myself, which in turn led me to choosing the vaccine schedule that i did for Brooke.

Even when it came along to the Swine Flu jab i took it all on board, an opposing opinion doesnt need to change your mind, but i can open your eyes to other alternatives.


----------



## NG09

mommyof3co said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> ^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.
> 
> 
> As it's been said many times your newborn is at as much risk from a vaccinated child as they are from an unvaccinated child. A vaccinated child can still be exposed to the disease and get a very mild form (or the full blown disease) but if it's mild they may not realize what it is and easily pass it onto your newborn. And also some vaccines shed so putting your newborn around newly vaccinated kids could be a risk too. Unvaccinated kids are no more of a risk, it's not like they are carrying around the disease.Click to expand...


In that case why is there such a thing vaccines if they are so un important?


----------



## ellie

NG09 said:


> ^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.

Again, though, you really do not know that "unvaccinated children" are somehow infecting vaccinated children. I really think that's a bit of a narrow view of disease and infections tbh. It's not black and white. 
And because of that, no one should start abusing mums who choose not to vaccinate because of their own fear of disease and this (slightly odd tbh) view. 

Mo3co, I think yhou've been incredibly honest and open about your choices and experiences given the outright rudeness of poeple on here !!


----------



## NG09

ellie said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> ^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.
> 
> Again, though, you really do not know that "unvaccinated children" are somehow infecting vaccinated children. I really think that's a bit of a narrow view of disease and infections tbh. It's not black and white.
> And because of that, no one should start abusing mums who choose not to vaccinate because of their own fear of disease and this (slightly odd tbh) view.
> 
> Mo3co, I think yhou've been incredibly honest and open about your choices and experiences given the outright rudeness of poeple on here !!Click to expand...

My view is odd?? Lets just agree to differ.


----------



## mommyof3co

NG09 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> ^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.
> 
> 
> As it's been said many times your newborn is at as much risk from a vaccinated child as they are from an unvaccinated child. A vaccinated child can still be exposed to the disease and get a very mild form (or the full blown disease) but if it's mild they may not realize what it is and easily pass it onto your newborn. And also some vaccines shed so putting your newborn around newly vaccinated kids could be a risk too. Unvaccinated kids are no more of a risk, it's not like they are carrying around the disease.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In that case why is there such a thing vaccines if they are so un important?Click to expand...


I never said they were unimportant? I have said before I think they have their place, just not in my child's body. I think vaccines have done wonderful things. But at this point I do not feel comfortable allowing my child to have them. 

My whole point in this is not to put down vaccines, to convince anyone they shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I was originally answering the OP's question about people choosing not to vaccinate then was participating in a conversation. But I don't want my choices attacked or people acting like I'm an idiot or nut for making a decision that we feel is best for OUR kids. Even when people ask what they should do...like a few pages back...I NEVER suggest people don't vaccinate, I suggest they educate themselves so they can make a decision that they feel is best for THEIR kids. Whether that be to vaccinate or not. I don't feel either one is more right than the other, it's what you think is best for your kids. As long as people are making educated decisions I don't care at all if you vaccinate or not.


----------



## freckleonear

Many of these diseases are not usually life-threatening in healthy children thanks to modern hygiene and medicine. Tragically some children do still die of them but children also die after vaccinations as we heard recently on this forum. mommyof3co has obviously put a lot of thought and research into her decision and probably does far more than the average vaccinating parent to strengthen her children's immune systems as much as possible. I appreciate that it may be difficult to understand opposing viewpoints but the rudeness was uncalled for.


----------



## aob1013

freckleonear said:


> Many of these diseases are not usually life-threatening in healthy children thanks to modern hygiene and medicine. Tragically some children do still die of them but children also die after vaccinations as we heard recently on this forum. mommyof3co has obviously put a lot of thought and research into her decision and *probably does far more than the average vaccinating parent to strengthen her children's immune systems as much as possible.* I appreciate that it may be difficult to understand opposing viewpoints but the rudeness was uncalled for.

Really? You know that for a fact do you? Can you prove that?


----------



## joeyjo

mommyof3Co - just wondering whether you will choose to give any vaccines later on. For instance if your boys don't get mumps before their teenage years or if you have a girl would you advise her to be vaccinated against rubella before pregnancy etc? I agree that a lot of these diseases, in childhood are overcome easily in most cases but in more mature individuals can be more serious. I am genuinely curious not trying to critiscise.


----------



## scottishgal89

I know my circumstances are different but there are a lot more out there who are in the same boat as me.
We rely on 'herd immunity' but by the looks of it that idea cant be trusted.
It's better to be safe than sorry and people who choose not to vacinate their children, put the vulnerable at risk too.


----------



## mommyof3co

joeyjo said:


> mommyof3Co - just wondering whether you will choose to give any vaccines later on. For instance if your boys don't get mumps before their teenage years or if you have a girl would you advise her to be vaccinated against rubella before pregnancy etc? I agree that a lot of these diseases, in childhood are overcome easily in most cases but in more mature individuals can be more serious. I am genuinely curious not trying to critiscise.

Yeah I actually said earlier, I know it's a long thread haha, but yeah if they don't have mumps before teen years we will def look into getting that done. We will most likely do it, but we haven't made the decision 100% yet. If I have a girl we will also look into rubella if she hasn't developed immunity. We would also do Polio if it ever came back here or they traveled, but at this point we never travel out of the country and there hasn't been a case in many many years so we won't do that at this point.


----------



## NG09

Apologies if I came across as rude but I seriously cannot believe half of what I'm reading. You might be right but personally I couldn't take the chance, my LO's life is too much of a gamble for me. There are kids in 3rd world countries dying because the parents have no choice in protecting their children but some here seem to be turning them down willy nilly. Makes no sense to me at all.


----------



## joeyjo

mommyof3co said:


> joeyjo said:
> 
> 
> mommyof3Co - just wondering whether you will choose to give any vaccines later on. For instance if your boys don't get mumps before their teenage years or if you have a girl would you advise her to be vaccinated against rubella before pregnancy etc? I agree that a lot of these diseases, in childhood are overcome easily in most cases but in more mature individuals can be more serious. I am genuinely curious not trying to critiscise.
> 
> Yeah I actually said earlier, I know it's a long thread haha, but yeah if they don't have mumps before teen years we will def look into getting that done. We will most likely do it, but we haven't made the decision 100% yet. If I have a girl we will also look into rubella if she hasn't developed immunity. We would also do Polio if it ever came back here or they traveled, but at this point we never travel out of the country and there hasn't been a case in many many years so we won't do that at this point.Click to expand...

Sorry - I tried to read the whole thread but skimmed parts! Are you able to get the mumps vaccine separately in the US? I know its been out of stock/production in the UK and people are really struggling to get it.


----------



## Shri

Drazic<3 said:


> We are vaccinating Melody with heavy hearts. I find it very, very hard to do but have read all I could get my hands on and we feel it's the best for her and us. The more people don't vax the more the risk of getting ill increases and we couldn't personally accept that for our family (nb, not a critism of anyone else, just our choice)

ditto - and so far, he has been absolutely fine and I'm rather glad we took this route as there has actually been a whooping cough outbreak in our state!


----------



## mommyof3co

NG- That's just where we differ. I don't think I'm taking a gamble on their life, I think I would be taking more of a gamble getting them. :flower: I think vaccines being offered (not forced) in 3rd world countries are great things because they do not have the advancements to treat many of these diseases. It's completely different having say measles in the US and having it in a 3rd world country where they don't have the medication to treat it.

Joeyjo- No right now you can't get them separate anymore, but we still have awhile until they reach teenage years so hopefully they will be available separately again, if not we will consider doing MMR.


----------



## ttc_lolly

Can't you all stop belittling & interogating parents that don't vaccinate? This thread wasn't started to discuss/debate vaccines v non-vaccines :wacko: yet some of u have made it into this!! End of the day we all do what we think is best as parents & thats that.

And acting like their children are going to harm the vaccinated kids is ridiculous... YOU can also if your vaccines aren't up to date or are no longer in your system!! And I think living in England with the large amounts of immigrants that move here from countries where these diseases originate from/are still very much around pose the highest risk, not unvaxed children! And whoever mentioned forcing vax, wtf :nope: no idea u wanted a dictatorship of a country so badly!!!


----------



## Shri

Just to add, that I had chicken pox at age 6 and mumps at age 7
while happily I survived both, I vividly remember, to this day (30+ years on) how painful and horrible it was, even traumatic. I had both really severely. I still have scars from the chickenpox and missed out on something that was really special to me because of the mumps. Neither of these are a big deal, but I am very glad that I am able to avoid my child having to go through that. And I really really researched about vaccines because I was worried about them.


----------



## ellie

NG09 said:


> ellie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> ^^Which is fine if you choose to, or not to do something and it doesn't affect anyone else. However if my newborn baby then becomes at risk from preventable diseases because someone decides for whatever reason not to vaccinate their child then I have a say. My child might not recover from it because I have no idea how strong his immune system is or truly how healthy he is, I hope he is healthy and strong but NO ONE can take that as a given.
> 
> Again, though, you really do not know that "unvaccinated children" are somehow infecting vaccinated children. I really think that's a bit of a narrow view of disease and infections tbh. It's not black and white.
> And because of that, no one should start abusing mums who choose not to vaccinate because of their own fear of disease and this (slightly odd tbh) view.
> 
> Mo3co, I think yhou've been incredibly honest and open about your choices and experiences given the outright rudeness of poeple on here !!Click to expand...
> 
> My view is odd?? Lets just agree to differ.Click to expand...

I probably shoudl have said 'black and white' or 'concrete', and I didnt just mean yours (though it would have read like that since I quoted your post). It's not "vaccines = completely protected and good" vs "no vaccines = bad". Hence why so many mums research it and make THEIR decisions based on what is best in THEIR opinion. It's pretty offensive for people (who don't agree, don't undrestand and make no attempt to even try to understand) to throw around terms like "mad", "nuts", "selfish" etc etc just because someone don't understand their reasoning and don't want to try to understand it. I don't see it from the other way around :shrug: 

I agree with the principles of vaccination, of course. I just think that some on here are going a bit too far and openly insulting mums who have a different view.

What I do find odd is the view that somehow human beings have no inbuilt immunity at all (someone said something about 100% immunity with vaccines - any dr will tell you that isn't true - and 0% without - again, blatantly not true!) and that without the (very recent and in terms of the whole earth's population, not that widespread) invention of vaccines that every human is somehow defective, disease ridden, weak etc. 
I wonder how the human species managed to proliferate so much so quickly then! :wacko:

I must apologise to the OP for the total derailment of your original question. I think amongst it somewhere there might have been some actual answers to it!


----------



## xemmax

ttc_lolly said:


> Can't you all stop belittling & interogating parents that don't vaccinate? This thread wasn't started to discuss/debate vaccines v non-vaccines :wacko: yet some of u have made it into this!! End of the day we all do what we think is best as parents & thats that.
> 
> And acting like their children are going to harm the vaccinated kids is ridiculous... YOU can also if your vaccines aren't up to date or are no longer in your system!! And I think living in England with the large amounts of immigrants that move here from countries where these diseases originate from/are still very much around pose the highest risk, not unvaxed children! And whoever mentioned forcing vax, wtf :nope: no idea u wanted a dictatorship of a country so badly!!!

:thumbup:

it amazes me that people think forced vaccinations are the way forward.. ridiculous!


----------



## ellie

ttc_lolly said:


> Can't you all stop belittling & interogating parents that don't vaccinate? This thread wasn't started to discuss/debate vaccines v non-vaccines :wacko: yet some of u have made it into this!! End of the day we all do what we think is best as parents & thats that.
> 
> And acting like their children are going to harm the vaccinated kids is ridiculous... YOU can also if your vaccines aren't up to date or are no longer in your system!! And I think living in England with the large amounts of immigrants that move here from countries where these diseases originate from/are still very much around pose the highest risk, not unvaxed children! And whoever mentioned forcing vax, wtf :nope: no idea u wanted a dictatorship of a country so badly!!!

:thumbup:

I tottally agree that anyone who is worried about disease and wants everyone vaccinated should consider their OWN vaccinations.
If nothing else, this thread has made me think of that myself.


----------



## ellie

Oh and I just dug out the NHS leaflets on vaccinations that you get when babies are born.
Mine says that they "help to protect..." They don't make some miraculous switch from a newborn being so vulnerable they could crumble if someone coughs ... to being invincible from anything.
Tbh its just as important, if you are worried abotu immunity and disease, to take plenty of ongoing precautions throughout life. One problem with vaccinations is that it makes people complacent if they believe they are absolutely totally utterly protecting them from getting ill ever.


----------



## Lightworker

wow this thread really has taken flight! TBH the issue of not vaxing was foreign to me, i think i just assumed everyone did until I overheard a mom saying she wasnt vaxing. Having read some posts here, I can now understand why some dont. OT- I know its my own problem, but it really gets my goat when people say 3RD WORLD instead of DEVELOPING, anyone else feel the same?


----------



## Missy

We haven't vax'd. Quite happy to give my reasons by pm but I have posted on a forum about this before and getting abused once was more than enough for me :)
My DD is now 17 months old and apart from a couple of colds since starting nursery she has been fighting fight so far!


----------



## NG09

huggermomof2 said:


> wow this thread really has taken flight! TBH the issue of not vaxing was foreign to me, i think i just assumed everyone did until I overheard a mom saying she wasnt vaxing. Having read some posts here, I can now understand why some dont. OT- I know its my own problem, but it really gets my goat when people say 3RD WORLD instead of DEVELOPING, anyone else feel the same?

I do appologise, anything else that annoys you you want me to avoid saying???? lol


----------



## Lightworker

lol no, please dont change on my account- I think its just one of those days just being overly sensitive


----------



## NG09

huggermomof2 said:


> lol no, please dont change on my account- I think its just one of those days just being overly sensitive

:rofl: tell me about it, I'm off to bed before I loose the will to live!!!


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## Lightworker

I like the comment made by Ellie about complacency- that is so true. I think that we as individuals, when we dont eat right, dont exercise, drink alcohol, smoke, take drugs, engage in stressful jobs, neglect our emotional health etc- we are compromising the health of the entire community by making ourselves susceptible to disease in this way. So its not fair to attack non-vaxing parents alone, the blame (if there should be any) should rest on every individual thats not taking care of their own health in t


----------



## helen1234

One thing I do find interesting is the biggest rise in measles is the area of london have the most children unvaccinated, this speaks massively to me. 


I don't believe any amount of organic food and healthy lifestyle will protect against disease, were an organic healthy family, and we've had illnesses.
And there is a member on here who's had a toddler died from chicken pox so I will be very wary of that too.
I think and I don't mean to be rude but a child not getting an illness such as the ones we vaccinate against is more luck than anything, this goes for vaccinated as well as it's only covers them 80%


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## IvyBaby

Lifestyle and genetics do play a huge role. Strong immune system can fight a lot of germs and vaccinations, in my opinion, help to weaken it. You may have immunity for the illnesses that the vaccine protect from, but the general immunity may suffer... no wonder kids these days are so fragile.


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## helen1234

IvyBaby said:


> Lifestyle and genetics do play a huge role. Strong immune system can fight a lot of germs and vaccinations, in my opinion, help to weaken it. You may have immunity for the illnesses that the vaccine protect from, but the general immunity may suffer... no wonder kids these days are so fragile.

i'm genuinely intrigued where you got those findings from the genetics part, 
not being rude or anything genuinely interested 
or was it just an opinion


----------



## IvyBaby

Well, basically genetics play role in everything, also in general health and how resistant the body is to illness. It is basic knowledge. Environmental factors help to either strengthen or weaken this innate immunity. For example, I had a dog who got vaccinated a couple times, and then for some reason we stopped doing it and he lived to ripe old age of 15, there is no way he was not exposed to distemper virus, but he never contracted the illness, whereas most dogs would catch it and die if not vaccinated every year.


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## helen1234

i see what your saying, 
vitamin defiency esp vit c (scurvy breakout was this one) and stress is one of the biggest factors of lowering immunity but unless your in a bubble everyone comes across stress even if we dont know it, 
in chernobyl where nuclear polution is high, its been proved that they have a lower immunity than uk children.

i stand on the fence with the genetics idea, as a reason because unless there's a fool proof genetics test. how do you know if your genes could withstand against polio and measles etc. i'd like to think i have strong genes but how would i find out.


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## IvyBaby

They may come up with some tests in future but that is beside the point. 

My friend never lets any vaccine pass by, she gets flu vaccine every year, whereas I never have and I had flu only once in the past 10 years or more.. So she is putting toxic chemicals in her body every year and still getting all sorts of colds because they don't cover all viruses. 
I was 8 months pregnant when I got flu, so I took rest, took some paracetamol and was fine. My immune system knows how to fight because I give it a chance to do so. My mom gets vaccinated against encefalitis, but I wouldn't, I would prefer to just check myself thoroughly after each walk in the forest to see if there is any tick crawling around. Do we really need all these vaccines, that is the question. 

But again it is every parent's personal decision about what to do with their children, to vaccinate or not, or take one vaccine and not the other.


----------



## helen1234

IvyBaby said:


> They may come up with some tests in future but that is beside the point.
> 
> My friend never lets any vaccine pass by, she gets flu vaccine every year, whereas I never have and I had flu only once in the past 10 years or more.. So she is putting toxic chemicals in her body every year and still getting all sorts of colds because they don't cover all viruses.
> I was 8 months pregnant when I got flu, so I took rest, took some paracetamol and was fine. My immune system knows how to fight because I give it a chance to do so. My mom gets vaccinated against encefalitis, but I wouldn't, I would prefer to just check myself thoroughly after each walk in the forest to see if there is any tick crawling around. Do we really need all these vaccines, that is the question.
> 
> But again it is every parent's personal decision about what to do with their children, to vaccinate or not, or take one vaccine and not the other.

vaccines wont prevent you from everyday illnesses though it will only produce the nessacary antigen for that paticular illness surely. 

i've never had even the flu and i havent had a jab for it, and i've had my childhood jabs apart from hep b, so really i've done better than you then hehe. few coughs and colds here and there but thats it never had a day off work in 6 yrs, and my oh smokes and drinks and has a crap diet, he isnt even enrolled at a doctors is that luck maybe.


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## IvyBaby

Good for you. I got the flu after I moved to London, lol. 
So you guys must have strong genetics ;)


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## Justagirlxx

Just want to mention that taking vita C and vita D supplements can greatly boost the immune system and help protect you during flu season. I've never had the flu and never been vaccinated against it (Currently taking 1000IU of Vitamin C and 1000IUs of Vitamin D3) Eating right and getting enough sleep are also important. (The latter may be impossible for us moms lol) x


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## SKATERBUN

deleted


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## GingerNut

For hundreds of years before vaccines were invented, death rates from diseases like influenza, measles or chicken pox were horrifically. Children died in vast numbers of diseases that can be prevented now. Life expectancy was significantly lower

Stop vaccinating, and you return to that situation. It's that simple.

As an illustration of my point, in County Cork in Ireland the BCG shot stopped being offered to babies in the 70s. The rate of TB in Cork is now far higher than the national average - in 2009 there were 85 cases confirmed. TB is very dangerous and highly contagious, and in counties where the BCG is offered the rate of cases is substantially lower. 

Vaccination programmes are in place for a reason.


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## Lightworker

Its very sad that someone on here has had a toddler die of chickenpox. As far as im aware, in the UK we dont vax against chickenpox- has any UK vaxing mom ever specifically requested this vax, and if so, were you successful?


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## xpatchx

I did, and will do them all. I had them all and I am completely healthy. Never had MMR or any of the other things I have been vaccinated against.
It's personal opinion really. Billions of people have been vaccinated, and have gone on to be happy healthy people, but some don't. Noone can really tell if it's the vaccinations, or if they would have gotten ill with or without them


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## xpatchx

Also, without trying to start another argument, those saying "stop belittling parents who decide not to vaccinate their kids..." etc, it also works the other way round.
I read earlier that someone said "I don't undertand how people think forced vaccinations are the way forward"
They're not forced, it's preventative. When your child has a temperature and is in pain and you give calpol, are you forcing them to take drugs they may not later want to take in life?

At the end of the day, I don't want my child to get mumps, or polio or anything like that. I'm not peircing her ears, or tattooing her, I'm preventing her from getting a possibly very painful, or fatal illness.

Unfortunately, like alllll the debates started on this forum, it comes down to the fact that each parent has their own opinions, and choices, and we're all going to do our very best for our children. I vaccinate, others don't. That doesn't mean that thoe who don't are purposely endangering their children, it means they have other opinions and are entitled to those.


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## AppleBlossom

^^ Agree. Yes they may choose not to take any medication when they are ill but when my daughter has made it to adulthood without contracting measles or polio I don't think she will turn round and say "I hate you for making me have those vaccinations" Not saying she would say that to me had I NOT given her her vaccinations, I just think making out like people who decide to vaccinate their children are forcing it upon them is ridiculous. Yes, your child can't speak for themselves but a vaccination is helping prevent them from something that could potentially be fatal, it's not like forcing them to have their ears pierced because that is purely cosmetic and holds no positive outcome for a child


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## Justagirlxx

xpatchx said:


> Also, without trying to start another argument, those saying "stop belittling parents who decide not to vaccinate their kids..." etc, it also works the other way round.
> I read earlier that someone said "I don't undertand how people think forced vaccinations are the way forward"
> They're not forced, it's preventative. When your child has a temperature and is in pain and you give calpol, are you forcing them to take drugs they may not later want to take in life?
> 
> At the end of the day, I don't want my child to get mumps, or polio or anything like that. I'm not peircing her ears, or tattooing her, I'm preventing her from getting a possibly very painful, or fatal illness.
> 
> Unfortunately, like alllll the debates started on this forum, it comes down to the fact that each parent has their own opinions, and choices, and we're all going to do our very best for our children. I vaccinate, others don't. That doesn't mean that thoe who don't are purposely endangering their children, it means they have other opinions and are entitled to those.

Patch, she was speaking of people who believe that the government should force everyone to get vaccinated. She wasn't saying that by vaccinating your child you are forcing vaccines on them. Also, IMO none of the non-vaxing moms on this thread have belittled or spoken ill of vaccinating moms or said that they are purposely endangering their children. Just because I do not feel that vaccination is right for my child does not mean that I think it's wrong that you vaccinate yours. But saying that the government should force me to vaccinate my child IS very very wrong.


----------



## xemmax

xpatchx said:


> Also, without trying to start another argument, those saying "stop belittling parents who decide not to vaccinate their kids..." etc, it also works the other way round.
> I read earlier that someone said "I don't undertand how people think forced vaccinations are the way forward"
> They're not forced, it's preventative. When your child has a temperature and is in pain and you give calpol, are you forcing them to take drugs they may not later want to take in life?
> 
> At the end of the day, I don't want my child to get mumps, or polio or anything like that. I'm not peircing her ears, or tattooing her, I'm preventing her from getting a possibly very painful, or fatal illness.
> 
> Unfortunately, like alllll the debates started on this forum, it comes down to the fact that each parent has their own opinions, and choices, and we're all going to do our very best for our children. I vaccinate, others don't. That doesn't mean that thoe who don't are purposely endangering their children, it means they have other opinions and are entitled to those.

as justagirl said i wasn't referring to forcing drugs on your child. i was referring to the brilliant idea proposed by people earlier that we should all have our freedom, liberty and right to choose taken from us and be forced by our governments to do what they say whilst supposedly living in a democratic country. what a well thought out plan! 

it defies belief, it truly does.


----------



## ttc_lolly

xpatchx said:


> Also, without trying to start another argument, those saying "stop belittling parents who decide not to vaccinate their kids..." etc, it also works the other way round.
> I read earlier that someone said "I don't undertand how people think forced vaccinations are the way forward"
> They're not forced, it's preventative. When your child has a temperature and is in pain and you give calpol, are you forcing them to take drugs they may not later want to take in life?
> 
> At the end of the day, I don't want my child to get mumps, or polio or anything like that. I'm not peircing her ears, or tattooing her, I'm preventing her from getting a possibly very painful, or fatal illness.
> 
> Unfortunately, like alllll the debates started on this forum, it comes down to the fact that each parent has their own opinions, and choices, and we're all going to do our very best for our children. I vaccinate, others don't. That doesn't mean that thoe who don't are purposely endangering their children, it means they have other opinions and are entitled to those.

Hun the post you are referring to was with regards to some silly idea that the government should force vaccinations on people, and someone also mentioned this being a good thing to happen to people in africa etc... as if they were dogs :nope:

If u read through the full thread I don't think you will find one negative or demeaning post towards women who vaccinate their kids :flower: x


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## poppy666

I didnt vaccinate my LO he's 8mths old, im 4wks pregnant and wont be vaccinating this one either x


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## louandivy

Jesus, I've just read through the last few pages of this post and it seems to have just gone round in circles, only really proving that some people are frighteningly narrow-minded!


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## NG09

louandivy said:


> Jesus, I've just read through the last few pages of this post and it seems to have just gone round in circles, only really proving that some people are frighteningly narrow-minded!

Well that could be said about every other thread recently, not just this one!

TBH I don't think it's a case of people being narrow minded. I personally think it's crazy not to vaccinate but that's my opinion, same as others think it's crazy to vaccinate. I know I'm not going to change my mind, neither are the others with opposing views so obviously it's going to go round in circles. What do you expect to happen??


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## louandivy

But the people who have chosen not to vaccinate are just giving their reason without insulting anyone and then some people are replying 'NO you're just crazy'. I just think its very rude.


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## poppy666

I think the problem with threads on here is people dont read the heading, when it says *' Not Vaccinating'* it means baiscally that to everyone who has chosen not to vaccinate & give their reasons why..... Then people who oppose it *HAVE *to post their opinion and some *HAVE* to say 'we're mad not to vaccinate' or we're putting our children at risk with our decision.

If you've chosen to vaccinate then thats fine,but stay off a thread thats asking our reason why we wont x


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## aob1013

Unfortunately, this is a public forum and if you post something on here, you can't always expect answers that agree with you - especially on hot topics like this. Just the way it is i'm afraid.


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## NG09

aob1013 said:


> Unfortunately, this is a public forum and if you post something on here, you can't always expect answers that agree with you - especially on hot topics like this. Just the way it is i'm afraid.

:thumbup:


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## louandivy

Yes but there is a little thing called tact and I would have thought that people wouldn't want to be so deliberately rude :shrug:


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## AppleBlossom

aob1013 said:


> Unfortunately, this is a public forum and if you post something on here, you can't always expect answers that agree with you - especially on hot topics like this. Just the way it is i'm afraid.

^^ WSS. It's not narrow mindedness, it's just opinion. Nobody form what I've seen on this thread, has said to anyone, Omg I can't believe you do/don't vaccinate your children, that's terrible! :shrug:


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## xemmax

that's all well and good besides the fact that the OP wasn't asking for any "answers" from people who don't vaccinate. it was turned into a debate by others, it wasn't instigating one.

just like poppy666 said, people feel that they HAVE to give their opinion, whether it's asked for or not.


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## NG09

louandivy said:


> Yes but there is a little thing called tact and I would have thought that people wouldn't want to be so deliberately rude :shrug:

TBH, you always seem to be trying to stir it up one a lot of threads I have looked at recently, JMO, I don't really think that helps either. :shrug:


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## aob1013

Yes they do, all part and parcel of forums i'm afraid.


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## louandivy

What?! Urgh this is just getting bitchy and a bit pathetic, I'm out!


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## xemmax

not always, and it doesn't need to be that way.


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## aob1013

No point wasting time thinking about it, time to move on.


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## xemmax

NG09 said:


> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> Yes but there is a little thing called tact and I would have thought that people wouldn't want to be so deliberately rude :shrug:
> 
> TBH, you always seem to be trying to stir it up one a lot of threads I have looked at recently, JMO, I don't really think that helps either. :shrug:Click to expand...

that's not fair. there are plenty of people who pop up on threads like this.


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## xemmax

until the next thread. joy.


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## aob1013

That won't be long i am sure :haha:


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## NG09

xemmax said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> Yes but there is a little thing called tact and I would have thought that people wouldn't want to be so deliberately rude :shrug:
> 
> TBH, you always seem to be trying to stir it up one a lot of threads I have looked at recently, JMO, I don't really think that helps either. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> that's not fair. there are plenty of people who pop up on threads like this.Click to expand...

I'm not having a go, that's just my observation. I'm out too, it's just a pointless conversation now.


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## poppy666

Well im just saying its pretty sad that threads like this have to become heated etc, if i see a thread i dont like i just stay the hell off it simple as that.

It states NOT VACCINATING and others who have or will be vaccinating have no reason to even come in here other than to start a heated debate on the rights and wrongs of vaccination 'hence causing shit' Yes you may say 'no they just giving their opinion' sorry but thats not what the heading asked for in the first place did it? ...

If your all for vaccinations start your own thread end of leave this one alone x


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## NG09

poppy666 said:


> Well im just saying its pretty sad that threads like this have to become heated etc, if i see a thread i dont like i just stay the hell off it simple as that.
> 
> It states NOT VACCINATING and others who have or will be vaccinating have no reason to even come in here other than to start a heated debate on the rights and wrongs of vaccination 'hence causing shit' Yes you may say 'no they just giving their opinion' sorry but thats not what the heading asked for in the first place did it? ...
> 
> If your all for vaccinations start your own thread end of leave this one alone x

Couldn't be that people are just interested??? No, of course not, clearly it's just to 'cause shit'.


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## aob1013

As i said before, like thread on breastfeeding, benefits, religion, weaning .. all those kind of things, you'll find people on both sides of the fence. It's just what happens. You can't stop it, nor can you tell people what to do. Just have to go with the flow.

I quite like seeing opinions on both sides of the fence, life would be boring if people agreed with you all the time!

AND in light of this thread, Leni's 3rd set of immunisations came through today and before he goes i am going to do a quick check on all the immunisations offered and see what they are all about .. i may even think about delaying them as his last lot were only a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes, opposing opinions are good as they make you think about your choices :thumbup:


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## poppy666

Yes maybe NG09 your right and some are interested to why we chose not to vaccinate, but if i remember rightly you said 'you think we crazy not to vaccinate' so to me obviously that is going to stir things up isnt it?

Sorry edited it wasnt you who said we crazy so i apologise for that one x


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## poppy666

aob1013 said:


> As i said before, like thread on breastfeeding, benefits, religion, weaning .. all those kind of things, you'll find people on both sides of the fence. It's just what happens. You can't stop it, nor can you tell people what to do. Just have to go with the flow.
> 
> I quite like seeing opinions on both sides of the fence, life would be boring if people agreed with you all the time!
> 
> AND in light of this thread, Leni's 3rd set of immunisations came through today and before he goes i am going to do a quick check on all the immunisations offered and see what they are all about .. i may even think about delaying them as his last lot were only a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes, opposing opinions are good as they make you think about your choices :thumbup:

Totally agree with you, but its just so frustrating when people come onto a thread to cause trouble or damn right nasty and it ends up getting locked, there is no need for it, we're all parents who would die for our kids not put them at risk x


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## xemmax

poppy666 said:


> Yes maybe NG09 your right and some are interested to why we chose not to vaccinate, but if i remember rightly you said 'you think we crazy not to vaccinate' so to me obviously that is going to stir things up isnt it?
> 
> Sorry edited it wasnt you who said we crazy so i apologise for that one x

exactly, huge difference between being interested, curious and respectful and simply imposing unwanted opinions on a thread. some of the responses are just there because the person writing them quite obviously believes their opinions are far too important to keep to themselves and will air them at any opportunity, regardless of whether they are welcomed or not.


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## kirmal12

I'm just trying to understand why people belittle years of research??. All the research for cancer for example, would people chose not to have treatment because of the possible side effects the drugs would cause?. Or is that research just to bring in money for the drug companies?. Every single drug/medication has the potential to cause harm and side effects to the people who are sensitive to them surely?.

All medications/inoculations/vaccinations are made/given for the greater good not a money making exercise surely?


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## ttc_lolly

kirmal12 said:


> I'm just trying to understand why people belittle years of research??. All the research for cancer for example, would people chose not to have treatment because of the possible side effects the drugs would cause?. Or is that research just to bring in money for the drug companies?. Every single drug/medication has the potential to cause harm and side effects to the people who are sensitive to them surely?.
> 
> *All medications/inoculations/vaccinations are made/given for the greater good not a money making exercise surely*?

I don't think people are choosing not to vax to get one over on the companies making money out of vaccinations!! More so because of the ingredients and possible effects of the vaccinations themselves


----------



## kirmal12

ttc_lolly said:


> kirmal12 said:
> 
> 
> I'm just trying to understand why people belittle years of research??. All the research for cancer for example, would people chose not to have treatment because of the possible side effects the drugs would cause?. Or is that research just to bring in money for the drug companies?. Every single drug/medication has the potential to cause harm and side effects to the people who are sensitive to them surely?.
> 
> *All medications/inoculations/vaccinations are made/given for the greater good not a money making exercise surely*?
> 
> I don't think people are choosing not to vax to get one over on the companies making money out of vaccinations!! More so because of the ingredients and possible effects of the vaccinations themselvesClick to expand...

But it has been mentioned somewhere about money i just can't go through all the thread again!


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## poppy666

My reason is definately the ingredients that go into them, i wouldnt want that stuff injected into me nevermind my LO x


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## BabyJayne

I think it's very narrow-minded, conceited and god-damned ridiculous to expect to be able to post something on a public forum and not have opposing views/alternative opinions added. You cannot dictate who has the right to comment on something that is available for everyone to see. This is what public forums are for, to share, discuss, debate and examine.
If you want one-sided discussion, and for only those in favour of your particular view to comment - do it via PM and not on a public, open-for-all forum.


----------



## ttc_lolly

aob1013 said:


> As i said before, like thread on breastfeeding, benefits, religion, weaning .. all those kind of things, you'll find people on both sides of the fence. It's just what happens. You can't stop it, nor can you tell people what to do. Just have to go with the flow.
> 
> I quite like seeing opinions on both sides of the fence, life would be boring if people agreed with you all the time!
> 
> AND in light of this thread, Leni's 3rd set of immunisations came through today and before he goes i am going to do a quick check on all the immunisations offered and see what they are all about .. i may even think about delaying them as his last lot were only a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes, opposing opinions are good as they make you think about your choices :thumbup:

I understand what you're saying aob, I genuinely like to hear differing opinions etc (e.g. I will be having Amber vaccinated, although probably delaying it) however only a few weeks back there was a thread written by someone who was saying how co-sleeping was soooo dangerous etc etc, and if I remember rightly YOU were the most angriest co-sleeping mummy to reply on that thread!! In your own words, she was attacking your parenting style and saying you were putting your son in harms way. You didn't seem to like to hear her thoughts or opinions on that matter? You certainly weren't going with the flow either!! Just thought I'd add that as the shoe really is on the other foot now and what you are basically doing/saying to these ladies is just what that someone was saying to you not so long ago - and you really weren't happy about it.


----------



## Lightworker

Im also interested to know- to the non-vaxers, how has your decision not to vax been received by your doctor, health visitor etc? Did you feel you had to justify yourself etc?


----------



## Mel+Bump

I have decided to have my LO vaccinated as I believe that the reason these illnesses are so low in numbers now is because people were immunised. If noone was being vaccinated, these illnesses would still be very apparent. 

I delayed her first lot though as I felt 8 weeks was too young. If I have another child I'd probably wait even longer as I still felt it was young. Although I respect everybodies decision and if they choose not to vaccinate then so be it, I won't say anything against them, however, I feel people use the reason of 'the chances of them getting these things are so small now', need to reconsider why they aren't so common. 

(I haven't read this whole thread....it's huge! But wanted to put my 2 cents in lol :) )


----------



## poppy666

huggermomof2 said:


> Im also interested to know- to the non-vaxers, how has your decision not to vax been received by your doctor, health visitor etc? Did you feel you had to justify yourself etc?

No my HV was really nice, she didnt look surprised tbh and doctor never asks me why etc when i went for my 8wk check xx


----------



## xemmax

BabyJayne said:


> I think it's very narrow-minded, conceited and god-damned ridiculous to expect to be able to post something on a public forum and not have opposing views/alternative opinions added. You cannot dictate who has the right to comment on something that is available for everyone to see. This is what public forums are for, to share, discuss, debate and examine.
> If you want one-sided discussion, and for only those in favour of your particular view to comment - do it via PM and not on a public, open-for-all forum.

i'd love to hear how it can be classed as conceited to believe that people are capable of answering threads suitably and respectfully.

sometimes it is just unnecessary to reply with your opinions. i wouldn't enter a thread asking for advice on formula feeding and start offering my opinions on breastfeeding because it's unnecessary and pointless. not everything has to be debated, especially if it's not the intention of the post.


----------



## mommyof3co

huggermomof2 said:


> Im also interested to know- to the non-vaxers, how has your decision not to vax been received by your doctor, health visitor etc? Did you feel you had to justify yourself etc?

We don't have health visitors here, just a pediatrician. Some won't see patients that don't vaccinate, some will. We had a wonderful pediatrician in Colorado who completely supported our decision and even she didn't fully vaccinate her 5 kids. BUT they are required to offer and almost push the vaccines and you have to sign a paper if you decline. The paper says something along the lines of "I understand by not vaccinating my child I'm putting them at risk for blah, blah, blah and death" I've heard of people signing it and then it getting used against them. So when I sign things like that I always mark out the 'not' before signing it. We haven't had a dr since being here but have recently called around to find one that is fine with families not vaccinating and will be seeing her soon for just a regular well check up for each of the boys.


----------



## Nimyra

huggermomof2 said:


> Im also interested to know- to the non-vaxers, how has your decision not to vax been received by your doctor, health visitor etc? Did you feel you had to justify yourself etc?

My doctor has been very supportive and understanding. She herself delayed her children's Hep B vaccinations (which here they give at the hospital just after delivery) so she understood me feeling like my LO was too young. Many pediatricians in this country are not like this though. Many will say, "I will not take you on as a patient if you refuse to vaccinate ON SCHEDULE." i.e. no selective vaccination, no delaying ANY vaccines. They won't even agree to delay vaccines due to medical reasons. It can be hard to find a pediatrician who will agree to work with you, but its possible. There are some websites listing doctors who will agree to selective vaccination. 

I didn't pick my doctor for this reason, she was already my doctor (and is now my LO's doctor.) She just happened to be very understanding.

As an aside... My insurance company is a large HMO and their doctors may not be able to deny seeing patients. I think the rules might be different. I never had to find out.


----------



## SKATERBUN

huggermomof2 said:


> Im also interested to know- to the non-vaxers, how has your decision not to vax been received by your doctor, health visitor etc? Did you feel you had to justify yourself etc?

:)thanks for coming back huggermom, maybe we can get back to your original post rather than going round the houses endlessly! I didnt think this was another one of 'those debates' when I first entered the discussion.

Yeah I did feel I had to justify the reasons why I'm delaying, my GP didnt question my opinion though and my HV just said to bare in mind that out of all the diseases that meningitis was the biggest threat out of all of them. She also said something about getting single vaxs instead of the 7 in 1 combo which I think is a little full on.
We are proposing on vacinating when LO goes off to nursery, but not before I have researched the subject fully.


----------



## BabyJayne

xemmax said:


> BabyJayne said:
> 
> 
> I think it's very narrow-minded, conceited and god-damned ridiculous to expect to be able to post something on a public forum and not have opposing views/alternative opinions added. You cannot dictate who has the right to comment on something that is available for everyone to see. This is what public forums are for, to share, discuss, debate and examine.
> If you want one-sided discussion, and for only those in favour of your particular view to comment - do it via PM and not on a public, open-for-all forum.
> 
> i'd love to hear how it can be classed as conceited to believe that people are capable of answering threads suitably and respectfully.
> 
> sometimes it is just unnecessary to reply with your opinions. i wouldn't enter a thread asking for advice on formula feeding and start offering my opinions on breastfeeding because it's unnecessary and pointless. not everything has to be debated, especially if it's not the intention of the post.Click to expand...

I made no comment on being respectful - I agree. I also think this means being respectful of differing opinions. You cannot expect a thread about a controversial subject not to attract strong views on both sides.

I used conceited perfectly correctly. I said - I think it's very narrow-minded, conceited and god-damned ridiculous to expect to be able to post something on a public forum and not have opposing views/alternative opinions added.

Unnecessary it may be in your opinon to add comments, but others who have a strong opinion obviously feel it necessary. It is the nature of the beast I'm afraid, what with this being a public forum.

To the O/P - apologies for jumping in on this particular point and not having anything to add to your original question. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.


----------



## xemmax

BabyJayne said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BabyJayne said:
> 
> 
> I think it's very narrow-minded, conceited and god-damned ridiculous to expect to be able to post something on a public forum and not have opposing views/alternative opinions added. You cannot dictate who has the right to comment on something that is available for everyone to see. This is what public forums are for, to share, discuss, debate and examine.
> If you want one-sided discussion, and for only those in favour of your particular view to comment - do it via PM and not on a public, open-for-all forum.
> 
> i'd love to hear how it can be classed as conceited to believe that people are capable of answering threads suitably and respectfully.
> 
> sometimes it is just unnecessary to reply with your opinions. i wouldn't enter a thread asking for advice on formula feeding and start offering my opinions on breastfeeding because it's unnecessary and pointless. not everything has to be debated, especially if it's not the intention of the post.Click to expand...
> 
> I made no comment on being respectful - I agree. I also think this means being respectful of differing opinions. You cannot expect a thread about a controversial subject not to attract strong views on both sides.
> 
> I used conceited perfectly correctly. I said - I think it's very narrow-minded, conceited and god-damned ridiculous to expect to be able to post something on a public forum and not have opposing views/alternative opinions added.
> 
> Unnecessary it may be in your opinon to add comments, but others who have a strong opinion obviously feel it necessary. It is the nature of the beast I'm afraid, what with this being a public forum.
> 
> To the O/P - apologies for jumping in on this particular point and not having anything to add to your original question. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.Click to expand...

well, i entirely disagree. i don't think it's conceited in the slightest. nor do i feel it's necessary to air your opinion at every available opportunity and at the cost of what could have been productive threads. 

but i don't mind disagreeing. we all pick our battles, i just don't feel the need to pick them where they're not wanted.


----------



## Lightworker

SKATERBUN- lol- it took me ages to read the entire thread and i honestly didnt think it would snowball like this! but thank you, and all the ladies who responded to my questions, despite all the judgement and criticism x


----------



## wishingonastar

Huggermom - I chose to delay isabels 5-in-one so she had her first at 12 weeks and two months gap between each. I chose not to give her any further vaccines other than this and tbh I have read further research and am now unsure if I will give the 5-in-one to this next baby. I intend to do some more research and weighing up of professional opinions and so forth

The reason I chose to delay is that there is published research showing that delaying vaccines can decrease likelihood of side effects such as the development of asthma (I can't give exact data without going through my research but am happy to provide some book titles to start you off)

My HV was supportive of my right to choose and my reasons for having concerns. The nurse who intended to administer as per the schedule but found I was following my own schedule did an 'ok' job of hiding her disapproval by asking questions to check my understanding although it was obvious from the way they were worded that she did not feel she was speaking with a knowledgable equal

My GP then came in to finish standard checks on isabel and whether I had PND and the nurse 'subtly' tried to explain so he then questioned me. I showed him one of the books and we discussed other research and he seemed to accept my reasons and even took note of the book so he could expand his knowledge

I am very fortunate to have an OH who is open minded to my research and concerns which arose and he has supported the path I felt best on isabels vaccines...had we disagreed it would have made life very difficult


----------



## Justagirlxx

aob1013 said:


> As i said before, like thread on breastfeeding, benefits, religion, weaning .. all those kind of things, you'll find people on both sides of the fence. It's just what happens. You can't stop it, nor can you tell people what to do. Just have to go with the flow.
> 
> I quite like seeing opinions on both sides of the fence, life would be boring if people agreed with you all the time!
> 
> AND in light of this thread, Leni's 3rd set of immunisations came through today *and before he goes i am going to do a quick check on all the immunisations offered and see what they are all about .. i may even think about delaying them as his last lot were only a couple of weeks ago.* Sometimes, opposing opinions are good as they make you think about your choices :thumbup:

Wow, coming from someone who is always proclaiming about how safe vaccinations are... I'm simply...surprised. And a bit shocked you'd change your mind. That'd be like me saying I'm about to go get JJ vaccinated tomorrow. :haha:
I'm glad you are thinking of delaying them though. I'm also glad you are doing more research on them. Maybe it will help you understand a bit more why some of us are so against them. :flower:


----------



## aob1013

I do believe they are safe and he will have them, but I'm definately going to think about delaying the. He only had some other ones a couple of weeks ago, seems a bit close to me!!

I'm not opinionated all the time hun :haha:

:hugs: x


----------



## scottishgal89

Opinions on Mmr? Anywhere I can read up? That's the one I'm most concerned about. Lo is due it next month


----------



## Justagirlxx

aob1013 said:


> I do believe they are safe and he will have them, but I'm definately going to think about delaying the. He only had some other ones a couple of weeks ago, seems a bit close to me!!
> 
> *I'm not opinionated all the time hun *:haha:
> 
> :hugs: x

Hahaha it's totally fine, I'm the same way! :hugs:
Anyways with Leni being a preemie and a bit smaller I'm glad you are thinking of delaying them. They give them so close together!


----------



## ShanandBoc

Im really undecided and concerned about vaccinations for my daughter, and what exactly we are putting into her body :(

I found this site interesting and has made me really think twice about it.

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/articles/baby/question-vaccinations
and
https://www.avn.org.au/

My husband is very much anti vaccination and doesnt want her to be done at all :/


----------



## ShanandBoc

~daisychain~ said:


> Opinions on Mmr? Anywhere I can read up? That's the one I'm most concerned about. Lo is due it next month

https://www.avn.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=91&Itemid=207

Australian vaccination network site. Very detailed and even has the data sheets for the vaccines from the pharmaceutical companies who make them


----------



## scottishgal89

Thank you!


----------



## IvyBaby

ShanandBoc said:


> ~daisychain~ said:
> 
> 
> Opinions on Mmr? Anywhere I can read up? That's the one I'm most concerned about. Lo is due it next month
> 
> https://www.avn.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=91&Itemid=207
> 
> Australian vaccination network site. Very detailed and even has the data sheets for the vaccines from the pharmaceutical companies who make themClick to expand...

Fantastic info, thanks hun!


----------



## kissikiss

Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...

Their current magazine has a "new regular feature" called 'a voice for the vaccine injured' lmao!!

Looks like a profit organisation as well, they accept donations and have a shop looks to sell exclusive anti vac literature/media. 

To daisychain, I can provide you with actual journals for the MMR vaccine, if you have any specific concerns just ask and I can do a journal search for you - you can't believe everything that these websites say! I REALLY hate to keep dragging up the importance of this but I think it's so important to get info from an unbiased source xx


----------



## aob1013

kissikiss said:


> Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...
> 
> xx

I agree. If you are going to research properly, you need to research from places that are not biased x.


----------



## ShanandBoc

where is this unbiased source.....there seems to be either pro or anti sources from what i can find.

And where is the evidence that info here https://www.bellybelly.com.au/articles/baby/question-vaccinations is biased

I havent made a decision on vaccinating my daughter yet. Tbh i find it all soo confusing


----------



## IvyBaby

kissikiss said:


> Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...
> 
> Their current magazine has a "new regular feature" called 'a voice for the vaccine injured' lmao!!
> 
> Looks like a profit organisation as well, they accept donations and have a shop looks to sell exclusive anti vac literature/media.
> 
> To daisychain, I can provide you with actual journals for the MMR vaccine, if you have any specific concerns just ask and I can do a journal search for you - you can't believe everything that these websites say! I REALLY hate to keep dragging up the importance of this but I think it's so important to get info from an unbiased source xx


They provide actual leaflet inserts that list possible side effects and a complete info on the particular vaccine, what's biased about that?


----------



## kissikiss

ShanandBoc said:


> where is this unbiased source.....there seems to be either pro or anti sources from what i can find.
> 
> And where is the evidence that info here https://www.bellybelly.com.au/articles/baby/question-vaccinations is biased
> 
> I havent made a decision on vaccinating my daughter yet. Tbh i find it all soo confusing

Because it says right on top that the information is from the Australian Vaccion Network. I went to their website...and it's a homeopathy/anti vaccine website. All you have to do is look at the magazine, the merch that they sell, etc. I haven't looked fully but are there links on the AVN to any journals as to where they get their information from? Not telling you what you should do (as I've said to other people against vaccines) but please when you research it then you should look at unbiased sources xx


----------



## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...
> 
> Their current magazine has a "new regular feature" called 'a voice for the vaccine injured' lmao!!
> 
> Looks like a profit organisation as well, they accept donations and have a shop looks to sell exclusive anti vac literature/media.
> 
> To daisychain, I can provide you with actual journals for the MMR vaccine, if you have any specific concerns just ask and I can do a journal search for you - you can't believe everything that these websites say! I REALLY hate to keep dragging up the importance of this but I think it's so important to get info from an unbiased source xx
> 
> 
> They provide actual leaflet inserts that list possible side effects and a complete info on the particular vaccine, what's biased about that?Click to expand...

Where is a link to the leaflets, I must have missed it. I would like to see who published them and where their information is from


----------



## kissikiss

ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....



> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism

daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.

This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! :growlmad:


----------



## IvyBaby

kissikiss said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...
> 
> Their current magazine has a "new regular feature" called 'a voice for the vaccine injured' lmao!!
> 
> Looks like a profit organisation as well, they accept donations and have a shop looks to sell exclusive anti vac literature/media.
> 
> To daisychain, I can provide you with actual journals for the MMR vaccine, if you have any specific concerns just ask and I can do a journal search for you - you can't believe everything that these websites say! I REALLY hate to keep dragging up the importance of this but I think it's so important to get info from an unbiased source xx
> 
> 
> They provide actual leaflet inserts that list possible side effects and a complete info on the particular vaccine, what's biased about that?Click to expand...
> 
> Where is a link to the leaflets, I must have missed it. I would like to see who published them and where their information is fromClick to expand...

https://www.avn.org.au/index.php?op...article&id=217:admin&catid=91:admin&Itemid=75

Click on Data Sheet


----------



## aob1013

kissikiss said:


> ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....
> 
> 
> 
> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism
> 
> daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.
> 
> This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! :growlmad:Click to expand...

Wow that sounds like a dangerous website!!


----------



## Eala

A good way to find research is to use google scholar, rather than google. Scholar.google.co.uk. Then you will get links to actual studies. You won't always be able to get the full text but usually an abstract is available. 

Of course, even with studies you still need to look at who commissioned the research, how many people were used, their sampling methods and so on, but it'd probably still be better than some of the biased websites out there (whichever side of the fence you are on).


----------



## kissikiss

IvyBaby said:


> Click on Data Sheet

Fair enough. I did actually and went to www.medsafe.govt.nz (which seems to be a legit government website of NZ, not sure of New Zealand domain names)

Funny enough, if you go there, type in MMR in the search box, the first article comes up....saying there is NO link to MMR and autism. Although, the AVN would like you to believe there is (shame on them), along with a higher incidence of Crohn's Disease :growlmad:

Like I said, that's great if someone wants to read the factual data sheets - but websites like AVN are irresponsible and they lie.


----------



## kissikiss

Eala said:


> A good way to find research is to use google scholar, rather than google. Scholar.google.co.uk. Then you will get links to actual studies. You won't always be able to get the full text but usually an abstract is available.
> 
> Of course, even with studies you still need to look at who commissioned the research, how many people were used, their sampling methods and so on, but it'd probably still be better than some of the biased websites out there (whichever side of the fence you are on).

Google Scholar is great for those who don't have access to a journal database :thumbup:

Of course you have to look at population sizes, who funded the research, etc, that's why it's great to look at statistics as well (like p values, etc to see how significant a finding is)


----------



## IvyBaby

Statistics are great; however, when it is your child who got that rare side effect you will forget about the stats.


----------



## Justagirlxx

kissikiss said:


> Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...
> 
> *Their current magazine has a "new regular feature" called 'a voice for the vaccine injured' lmao!!
> *
> Looks like a profit organisation as well, they accept donations and have a shop looks to sell exclusive anti vac literature/media.
> 
> To daisychain, I can provide you with actual journals for the MMR vaccine, if you have any specific concerns just ask and I can do a journal search for you - you can't believe everything that these websites say! I REALLY hate to keep dragging up the importance of this but I think it's so important to get info from an unbiased source xx

Are you serious? Do you really think this is a laughing matter? Yes I believe the vaccine-injured should have a voice. And if your son/daughter was ever permanently paralyzed or died from a vaccine I bet you would want to talk about it and I bet you wouldn't find it a laughing matter. :nope:


----------



## kissikiss

Justagirlxx said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> Not a very good website, seems to be anti vaccine, you are hardly likely to get unbiased information from that...
> 
> *Their current magazine has a "new regular feature" called 'a voice for the vaccine injured' lmao!!
> *
> Looks like a profit organisation as well, they accept donations and have a shop looks to sell exclusive anti vac literature/media.
> 
> To daisychain, I can provide you with actual journals for the MMR vaccine, if you have any specific concerns just ask and I can do a journal search for you - you can't believe everything that these websites say! I REALLY hate to keep dragging up the importance of this but I think it's so important to get info from an unbiased source xx
> 
> Are you serious? Do you really think this is a laughing matter? Yes I believe the vaccine-injured should have a voice. And if your son/daughter was ever permanently paralyzed or died from a vaccine I bet you would want to talk about it and I bet you wouldn't find it a laughing matter. :nope:Click to expand...

Yes in fact I do - I actually chortled with sarcasm. Vaccine injured are YOU serious? I really don't think that my son is vaccine injured. Please. 

I'm seriously done with this thread - I don't need to defend myself from a lying, scaremongering website (which is where the 'vaccine injured' article was published. If you choose to believe it, then that's fine. I am doing my final year in Medical Biology, and am projected to receive 1st class honours. I plan on going on to do my PhD in molecular biology next year. I have done WAY more research than you've done on the matter, I can promise you. I didn't want to get personal, but if you are going to bring it up - then yeah - I will as well. 

I have never attacked anyone personally on this thread. I have tried my best to provide people with unbiased information. I have said in many posts, that whatever anyone chooses to do, then they can do, for the sake of their child. I have also said I don't agree with forced vaccinations. All I wanted for when people posted anti vaccination statements and said, 'well it's fact that vaccines cause x, y, and z' to state where they got the information from. There is no need to say 'if your child were to die'. How horrible.


----------



## Lightworker

KissKiss- would it be possible to provide me with the journal you mentioned on MMR and any other vaccines?


----------



## scottishgal89

kissikiss said:


> ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....
> 
> 
> 
> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism
> 
> daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.
> 
> This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! :growlmad:Click to expand...

Thanks, hadn't got around to reading it yet. Will look into it a bit later, I'm curious of side effects on that one.


----------



## mommyof3co

Your son isn't vaccine injured BUT there are children that ARE injured by vaccines. They aren't saying that people vaccinating are injuring their kids, it's an article for people that have had negative side effects from vaccines to talk about it.


----------



## kissikiss

huggermomof2 said:


> KissKiss- would it be possible to provide me with the journal you mentioned on MMR and any other vaccines?

Hi sweets yes I can, I have a journal that's dated 2002 about the benefits and risks of MMR, I can have a search for a more current one if you would like. The 2002 article is done by a woman named Miller, she's done much research on the vaccine. 

What other vaccines would you like to know about? 

Just pm me with an email address, many of the journals I have or have access to are in pdf format, so you'll need adobe to read them x


----------



## kissikiss

mommyof3co said:


> Your son isn't vaccine injured BUT there are children that ARE injured by vaccines. They aren't saying that people vaccinating are injuring their kids, it's an article for people that have had negative side effects from vaccines to talk about it.

Fine, maybe I misunderstood the article - I did not read it, I 'assumed' which is wrong that they were saying that everyone who was vaccine was vaccine injured. I really don't appreciate personal attacks though (not saying you are) as all I'm trying to state is the website that publishes that magazine publishes lies, and is as immoral and reckless as the "Dr" Wakefield who was struck off of the medical register in 2010 for stating the things he did. 

And I'm trying to help people make informed choices, not read websites and take them to be fact.


----------



## scottishgal89

kissikiss said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> KissKiss- would it be possible to provide me with the journal you mentioned on MMR and any other vaccines?
> 
> Hi sweets yes I can, I have a journal that's dated 2002 about the benefits and risks of MMR, I can have a search for a more current one if you would like. The 2002 article is done by a woman named Miller, she's done much research on the vaccine.
> 
> What other vaccines would you like to know about?
> 
> Just pm me with an email address, many of the journals I have or have access to are in pdf format, so you'll need adobe to read them xClick to expand...

Are you able to send me it too please?


----------



## mommyof3co

kissikiss said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Your son isn't vaccine injured BUT there are children that ARE injured by vaccines. They aren't saying that people vaccinating are injuring their kids, it's an article for people that have had negative side effects from vaccines to talk about it.
> 
> Fine, maybe I misunderstood the article - I did not read it, I 'assumed' which is wrong that they were saying that everyone who was vaccine was vaccine injured. I really don't appreciate personal attacks though (not saying you are) as all I'm trying to state is the website that publishes that magazine publishes lies, and is as immoral and reckless as the "Dr" Wakefield who was struck off of the medical register in 2010 for stating the things he did.
> 
> And I'm trying to help people make informed choices, not read websites and take them to be fact.Click to expand...



Def not attacking you, just pointing out what it meant. I agree they shouldn't be making statements that are false and people need to be getting info that is actually accurate and as unbiased as possible though that's really hard to find sometimes. A lot of times even the research is being funded by people on one side of the issue so you have to be careful about that too


----------



## kissikiss

mommyof3co said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> Your son isn't vaccine injured BUT there are children that ARE injured by vaccines. They aren't saying that people vaccinating are injuring their kids, it's an article for people that have had negative side effects from vaccines to talk about it.
> 
> Fine, maybe I misunderstood the article - I did not read it, I 'assumed' which is wrong that they were saying that everyone who was vaccine was vaccine injured. I really don't appreciate personal attacks though (not saying you are) as all I'm trying to state is the website that publishes that magazine publishes lies, and is as immoral and reckless as the "Dr" Wakefield who was struck off of the medical register in 2010 for stating the things he did.
> 
> And I'm trying to help people make informed choices, not read websites and take them to be fact.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Def not attacking you, just pointing out what it meant. I agree they shouldn't be making statements that are false and people need to be getting info that is actually accurate and as unbiased as possible though that's really hard to find sometimes. A lot of times even the research is being funded by people on one side of the issue so you have to be careful about that tooClick to expand...

Yeah, a lot of times research is funded by drug companies. My dad worked as a researcher at a hospital for a drug company. I know how much money is thrown at some studies, and how some drug companies try to pressurise researchers. 

The articles that I'm citing have been peer reviewed. The MMR one that I said I would provide to the OP was published in the Journal of Infection with actual MMR facts taken from the Department of Health and Health Education Authority. At the end of everything, all research is just that, it's up to the reader to determine what they want to do with that information. I for one would trust a researcher who has dedicated their life to a particular cause than to trust random person who has a basketweaving qualification telling me untruths.


----------



## Justagirlxx

kissikiss said:


> ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....
> 
> 
> 
> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism
> 
> daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.
> *
> This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! *:growlmad:Click to expand...

No, freedom of speech should absolutely not be made illegal. 

PS Andrew Wakefield (the doctor in question) was accused of using unethical practices in the study. (He paid children to give blood at his sons birthday party) That does not completely nullify the findings, nor make it an 'outright' lie. It just makes him a bad doctor. Why don't you do some research yourself before spreading false information in the same sentence you say spreading false info should be outlawed.


----------



## kissikiss

Justagirlxx said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....
> 
> 
> 
> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism
> 
> daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.
> *
> This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! *:growlmad:Click to expand...
> 
> No, freedom of speech should absolutely not be made illegal.
> 
> PS Andrew Wakefield (the doctor in question) was accused of using unethical practices in the study. (He paid children to give blood at his sons birthday party) That does not completely nullify the findings, nor make it an 'outright' lie. It just makes him a bad doctor. Why don't you do some research yourself before spreading false information in the same sentence you say spreading false info should be outlawed.Click to expand...

you are trying to be a troll and it's not working. 

Wakefield had a group of 12 (or 13) kids as his population size. If he REALLY thought there was something in that, then why didn't he follow it up, like a true scientist would, with further research on the matter, using a much larger population size? If the journal was so prized, why did the article, get retracted by The Lancet? 

As I said, I have done MUCH research on the issue, the website said MMR causes autism, which IS a lie, Wakefield's article was retracted, which is worse than never being published. 

PS what lab do you work at, or what degree do you have? I mean, I know it's the internet and you are probably a immunology professor.... really would like to know so I can avoid that institution like the plague. I know you were 'researching' on wikipedia for that retort.

And for real, I'm done, call me a bitch for all I care...arguing on the internet with someone I really don't give a f about is a waste of my time xx


----------



## Justagirlxx

kissikiss said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....
> 
> 
> 
> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism
> 
> daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.
> *
> This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! *:growlmad:Click to expand...
> 
> No, freedom of speech should absolutely not be made illegal.
> 
> PS Andrew Wakefield (the doctor in question) was accused of using unethical practices in the study. (He paid children to give blood at his sons birthday party) That does not completely nullify the findings, nor make it an 'outright' lie. It just makes him a bad doctor. Why don't you do some research yourself before spreading false information in the same sentence you say spreading false info should be outlawed.Click to expand...
> 
> you are trying to be a troll and it's not working.
> 
> Wakefield had a group of 12 (or 13) kids as his population size. If he REALLY thought there was something in that, then why didn't he follow it up, like a true scientist would, with further research on the matter, using a much larger population size? If the journal was so prized, why did the article, get retracted by The Lancet?
> 
> As I said, I have done MUCH research on the issue, *the website said MMR causes autism, which IS a lie,* Wakefield's article was retracted, which is worse than never being published.
> 
> PS what lab do you work at, or what degree do you have? I mean, I know it's the internet and you are probably a immunology professor.... really would like to know so I can avoid that institution like the plague. I know you were 'researching' on wikipedia for that retort.
> 
> And for real, I'm done, call me a bitch for all I care...arguing on the internet with someone I really don't give a f about is a waste of my time xxClick to expand...

You can't prove that to be true. No I am not an immunology professor, I'm actually a Psychology major which has nothing at all to do with this. I would never profess to be a professional on the subject. I am not a troll I am truly upset that you would suggest freedom of speech should be outlawed. Anyways I agree his study is not bullet proof but I don't think you should go around saying he's a fraud and a liar.


----------



## aliss

There's a lot of crap posted on the internet (far beyond anything to do with vaccines), so we all have to use our best judgement.

I am a big fan of vaccines but the alternative would be to force vaccinations on a child against their parent's will, and I'm sorry, but I just can't justify that. What the hell kind of society would that be? 

Yes, there are times where medical treatment conflicts with parental beliefs and it is forced upon a child, but that goes through courts and an ethics committee, and is an immediate life or death situation.

Awful subject as nobody will ever agree 100%! That's life I guess..


----------



## IvyBaby

Justagirlxx said:


> kissikiss said:
> 
> 
> ok now this has pissed me off, because they are blatantly lying...direct from this AVN website and MMR....
> 
> 
> 
> Research also suggests that there is a connection between MMR vaccination and the development of autism
> 
> daisychain (and anyone!) this is an outright lie, the doctor that 'suggested' this was struck off of the medical register, he is a fraud and that is the truth.
> *
> This is why, I swear, this should be illegal to post this stuff and confuse people who are looking to make an informed choice!!! *:growlmad:Click to expand...
> 
> No, freedom of speech should absolutely not be made illegal.
> 
> PS Andrew Wakefield (the doctor in question) was accused of using unethical practices in the study. (He paid children to give blood at his sons birthday party) T*hat does not completely nullify the findings, nor make it an 'outright' lie*. It just makes him a bad doctor. Why don't you do some research yourself before spreading false information in the same sentence you say spreading false info should be outlawed.Click to expand...

I was thinking about this today. What if he did discover something valid, just did not show it to the medical society in a proper way. What if next year they discover the same thing and then make it official. Often new discoveries are met with disbelief and scorn. I would not dismiss everything that he did/said without trying to find out more about this. Also research being funded by drug companies is a fact- would they support a doctor who comes up with such a discovery?! Some of the researchers are very eccentric, yes, and their methods may be flawed, but so what if they find out something really important.


----------



## ShanandBoc

Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.

Re:-

2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals

The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was &#8216;unsafe at any level if injected into the human body&#8217;; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimer&#8217;s disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).

3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria

All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40 &#8211; just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.


----------



## lauralora

hi hun, i almost didnt take olly for his injectioncs, i spent days researching the pros and cons, i was so scared something bad would happen to him, so in the end i made an appointment with the doctor and discussed it with him, hes such a great doctor. he didnt tell me off for considering not giving olly his injections instead he listend and said he understood, but that all his children had been vacinated due to the fact he saw a child die in a&e as there airways closed up as a symptom of one of the diseases the needles protect against (cant remember which one it was) this made me change my mind, for me this made me decide the pros outweighed the cons, i took him for his injections the next day. i sat and cried throughout them, but olly was fine and when i took him home he was fine too xx


----------



## AriannasMama

I received all my childhood vaccines and I am totally fine. :shrug:. IMO the risk of the disease vastly outweighs the risk of getting side effects from the vaccine. I would much rather have my daughter have a little prick in her thigh (as much as it breaks my heart to see) than have her end up with a horrible disease that could kill her.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

MMR has no link to autism. Babies are born with it. My friends child has it and the signs of the condition were there way before his MMR. X


----------



## aob1013

ShanandBoc said:


> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was &#8216;unsafe at any level if injected into the human body&#8217;; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimer&#8217;s disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40 &#8211; just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.

Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:

Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue. 
Where were they from?

Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.

Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?


----------



## IvyBaby

aob1013 said:


> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was &#8216;unsafe at any level if injected into the human body&#8217;; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimer&#8217;s disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40 &#8211; just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...

No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...


----------



## helen1234

Really though. If your going to nick pick ingredients in medicine you wouldn't have anything, does this mean if your child got I'll you wouldn't administer anything because even simple penicillin is fungi, if you got cancer you wouldn't have radio or chemotherapy, I know it's extreme but this is an extreme desicion.
I believe in prevention not cure, and if it had the contents of my rubbish bin I'd snatch it, 
There's countries where children are dying and if they had a choice I'm sure theyd have vaccines for their children in a heartbeat.


----------



## ShanandBoc

Whats in the vaccines then? do we know? Is it wrong to not want to put it in my childs body unless i know.


----------



## aob1013

IvyBaby said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...

Until then, what a trained medical profession deems necessary for my son to potentially save his life i will definately accept.

I'm definately sure half of what is listed in those pargraphs is rubbish.


----------



## aob1013

ShanandBoc said:


> Whats in the vaccines then? do we know? Is it wrong to not want to put it in my childs body unless i know.

Of course it's not wrong hun, but you really have to think logically here. Since vaccines have been introduced, diseases have dramatically come down. Fact. Since people have been refusing them, they have been coming back. Fact. It's logical in both ways.

As i said before, you must research these things from a trusted, unbiased, recognised source. 

Best thing would be to ask a medical professional or someone that knows what they are talking about, internet searches are not reliable.


----------



## helen1234

ShanandBoc said:


> Whats in the vaccines then? do we know? Is it wrong to not want to put it in my childs body unless i know.

I'd ask your doctor to explain, I wouldNt read on the Internet hun, or believe a website , if we knew half the ingredients in medicines we'd prob be shocked but would this stop us, if we knew it would save our childrens life, I think you've got to way up in your own mind, and it's just one if the hundred decisions as parents we have to make. I don't think there's there's an absolute right or wrong answer, it comes down to lifestyle and what you believe x


----------



## ShanandBoc

aob1013 said:


> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Whats in the vaccines then? do we know? Is it wrong to not want to put it in my childs body unless i know.
> 
> Of course it's not wrong hun, but you really have to think logically here. Since vaccines have been introduced, diseases have dramatically come down. Fact. Since people have been refusing them, they have been coming back. Fact. It's logical in both ways.
> 
> As i said before, you must research these things from a trusted, unbiased, recognised source.
> 
> Best thing would be to ask a medical professional or someone that knows what they are talking about, internet searches are not reliable.Click to expand...

But is a medical professional really unbiased tho? See i dont trust that either :( Esp when they recieve incentives to push vaccines


----------



## xemmax

IvyBaby said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...

EXACTLY. anyone who says that vaccines couldn't possibly contain those things obviously has little to no understanding of vaccines, or the purposes of chemicals.

i am not anti vaccination at all but i think it's stupid to have 100% faith in medical professionals, and to consider them unbiased is just ridiculous. i think it's important we all do our own research and make our own choices because let's face it, medicine changes very quickly, things are banned, mistakes are made, you only have to look into the past to see what will inevitably happen again in the future.. medicines/vaccinations are only perfect until you realise a whole generation of people are displaying problems and by then, it's way too late for them.


----------



## xemmax

aob1013 said:


> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:

research is created using fetal cells, and where do you think they obtain them?

one of my friends is completing her phd and has conducted research using fetal brain cells.


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> research is created using fetal cells, and where do you think they obtain them?
> 
> one of my friends is completing her phd and has conducted research using fetal brain cells.Click to expand...

My Uncle, who completed his PHD many years ago, says that when a child is vaccinated, fetal cells are not injected with it.


----------



## Nimyra

ShanandBoc said:


> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.

Hi ShanandBoc,

I don't know if the things listed in #3 are true, but certainly there is a lot of truth in #2. The debate isn't about what's *in* vaccines - you write the companies and ask them what's in their vaccines, the debate is around whether or not you should worry about the toxins that are in the vaccines. 

Mercury is still used (in the US) in one of the vaccines (one of the brands of DTAP I think), but in a much lower dose. The lower dose is generally believed to be safe. High doses used to be in most of the vaccines (this is how my cousin was hurt by a vaccine and he received a cash settlement from the drug company). The old lots of vaccines which contain the higher amount are still out there (I think the US shipped them to developing countries as part of "aid" packages) so if you wanted to be extra careful you could ask what lot your vaccine was coming from and check to see if its from a newer lot that doesn't have the old doses of mercury in it. 

One of the controversies around vaccines involves aluminum used to preserve them. Each vaccine has different amounts of aluminum. The CDC says aluminum is safe because we regularly injest (eat) the same amount without ill effects. I don't believe any studies have been done on the safety of injecting aluminum. That is the sort of double standard (gov't says its safe based on something that isn't really the same thing at all) that makes some people nervous.

At the end of the day we never know if anything is 100% safe and that's okay. I drive my car a lot and I know that's not 100% safe. You simply have to make choices about what level of risk you are willing to take.


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was &#8216;unsafe at any level if injected into the human body&#8217;; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimer&#8217;s disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40 &#8211; just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY. anyone who says that vaccines couldn't possibly contain those things obviously has little to no understanding of vaccines, or the purposes of chemicals.
> 
> i am not anti vaccination at all but i think it's stupid to have 100% faith in medical professionals, and to consider them unbiased is just ridiculous. i think it's important we all do our own research and make our own choices because let's face it, medicine changes very quickly, things are banned, mistakes are made, you only have to look into the past to see what will inevitably happen again in the future.. medicines/vaccinations are only perfect until you realise a whole generation of people are displaying problems and by then, it's way too late for them.Click to expand...

And i think it's stupid to think that medical professionals have alterior motives :)

The majority of my family work in the NHS, they are made up of doctors, midwives, surgeons and nurses, so i have had access to alot of information regarding vaccines, so i do have a very broard understanding of what goes into them, and what they do. However, half the time when i am writing replies, i'm breastfeeding so have to be very quick and vague in my responses. If i get a spare minute, i will go into detail on my previous posts. 

They are in that field of work to make people better, and to save lives not to deliberately hurt people. I find it kind of sad that people don't have much faith in medical professionals, although, i am sure if they were face with a life threatening problem, they would snap up treatment right away! I'm definately okay with my baby being injected with a teeny amount of mercury if that means he won't die of some disease.

This whole thing comes down to personal opinion, and what you believe is right for your child. I'm just a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, and free from disease.


----------



## xemmax

aob1013 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> research is created using fetal cells, and where do you think they obtain them?
> 
> one of my friends is completing her phd and has conducted research using fetal brain cells.Click to expand...
> 
> My Uncle, who completed his PHD many years ago, says that when a child is vaccinated, fetal cells are not injected with it.Click to expand...

sorry i don't understand what he means. are not injected with it? as in, the fetal cells are not contained within the vaccine? well, perhaps that's true, i honestly don't know although i will say that as every vaccine has been produced separately and many years and years apart, each one is different, so you can't make broad statements about all vaccines.

my understanding is that the cells are used within the research and/or production of the vaccine itself. whether they appear in the finished vaccine i don't know, but my point is it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to believe they are apparent in a vaccine when it's common knowledge the cells are used within the medical world.


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> research is created using fetal cells, and where do you think they obtain them?
> 
> one of my friends is completing her phd and has conducted research using fetal brain cells.Click to expand...
> 
> My Uncle, who completed his PHD many years ago, says that when a child is vaccinated, fetal cells are not injected with it.Click to expand...
> 
> sorry i don't understand what he means. are not injected with it? as in, the fetal cells are not contained within the vaccine? well, perhaps that's true, i honestly don't know although i will say that as every vaccine has been produced separately and many years and years apart, each one is different, so you can't make broad statements about all vaccines.
> 
> my understanding is that the cells are used within the research and/or production of the vaccine itself. whether they appear in the finished vaccine i don't know, but my point is it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to believe they are apparent in a vaccine when it's common knowledge the cells are used within the medical world.Click to expand...

Yes that's right, the fetal cells are not within the vaccine as it's being administered. If they were i probably wouldn't be so keen to vaccinate Leni at all.

Of course they are, thats how the majority of research is made. I'm not disputing that at all - i just don't want anybody thinking that the vaccine being injected into their child has bits of aborted babies and anti freeze.


----------



## xemmax

aob1013 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY. anyone who says that vaccines couldn't possibly contain those things obviously has little to no understanding of vaccines, or the purposes of chemicals.
> 
> i am not anti vaccination at all but i think it's stupid to have 100% faith in medical professionals, and to consider them unbiased is just ridiculous. i think it's important we all do our own research and make our own choices because let's face it, medicine changes very quickly, things are banned, mistakes are made, you only have to look into the past to see what will inevitably happen again in the future.. medicines/vaccinations are only perfect until you realise a whole generation of people are displaying problems and by then, it's way too late for them.Click to expand...
> 
> And i think it's stupid to think that medical professionals have alterior motives :)
> 
> The majority of my family work in the NHS, they are made up of doctors, midwives, surgeons and nurses, so i have had access to alot of information regarding vaccines, so i do have a very broard understanding of what goes into them, and what they do. However, half the time when i am writing replies, i'm breastfeeding so have to be very quick and vague in my responses. If i get a spare minute, i will go into detail on my previous posts.
> 
> They are in that field of work to make people better, and to save lives not to deliberately hurt people. I find it kind of sad that people don't have much faith in medical professionals, although, i am sure if they were face with a life threatening problem, they would snap up treatment right away! I'm definately okay with my baby being injected with a teeny amount of mercury if that means he won't die of some disease.
> 
> This whole thing comes down to personal opinion, and what you believe is right for your child. I'm just a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, and free from disease.Click to expand...

i think you're misunderstanding my standpoint. i'm not anti vaccination, nor do i not have faith in medical professionals, nor am i some crazed conspiracy theorist who believes that they have ulterior motives. 

my point is, research is constantly changing, views are developing all of the time and as a result what was once considered to be safe and beneficial can immediately be deemed harmful and dangerous should new research arise that counteracts the old. this has and will always happen. therefore, it's imperative that everyone makes their own decisions and not just follow what the medical professionals say as they really are as clueless as the rest of us when it comes down to seeing into the future. they can only predict long term effects to a certain extent.

i just don't agree with the blind dismissal of opposing views, ie, "no they don't contain those chemicals" when in fact, they do, (and in actuality the contents isn't even the issue, it's the effect of them) etc. i think we should all be able to weigh up the pros and cons ourself. 

oh and for the record, i think everyone is is a firm believer in keeping everyone safe and free from disease, and it's not nice to imply otherwise.


----------



## Nimyra

I do believe individual doctors and medical professionals mean well. I don't think they would ever hurt people on purpose. The issue is with the profession as a whole. Professional organizations like the AAP are under a great deal of pressure from the government and from pharmaceutical companies. Individual doctors are in turn required to provide the "standard of care" which is set by the professional organization (like the AAP). Standards or care change over time as the science evolves. 

It is also decisions like "we just won't make any more vaccines with mercury in it, but let us continue to sell the old back stock even though we know it has the potential to hurt children" that make me distrust the government and the pharmaceutical company. The reason they are allowed to do this is because there is an assumption that parents (that's us) will look out for our children and make informed decisions about what is best for them. That means it is the parents responsibility to educate themselves about what's in the vaccines and make sure that our child has the right brand and the right lot with as little mercury as possible. If you get the old lot and your child has a reaction to the mercury, the government (in the US at any rate) is going to say that's your own problem, you should have checked the lot numbers. 

This is why its really good to do your research. No one cares about your baby more than you do. I don't care how many medical degrees someone has. No one cares more than me and so no one is in a better position than I am to make (informed) decisions about what is best for my child.


----------



## xemmax

aob1013 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> research is created using fetal cells, and where do you think they obtain them?
> 
> one of my friends is completing her phd and has conducted research using fetal brain cells.Click to expand...
> 
> My Uncle, who completed his PHD many years ago, says that when a child is vaccinated, fetal cells are not injected with it.Click to expand...
> 
> sorry i don't understand what he means. are not injected with it? as in, the fetal cells are not contained within the vaccine? well, perhaps that's true, i honestly don't know although i will say that as every vaccine has been produced separately and many years and years apart, each one is different, so you can't make broad statements about all vaccines.
> 
> my understanding is that the cells are used within the research and/or production of the vaccine itself. whether they appear in the finished vaccine i don't know, but my point is it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to believe they are apparent in a vaccine when it's common knowledge the cells are used within the medical world.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes that's right, the fetal cells are not within the vaccine as it's being administered. If they were i probably wouldn't be so keen to vaccinate Leni at all.
> 
> Of course they are, thats how the majority of research is made. I'm not disputing that at all - i just don't want anybody thinking that the vaccine being injected into their child has bits of aborted babies and anti freeze.Click to expand...

well, at the bare minimum they have been produced using fetal cells and they contain preservatives, some with chemical compounds not too unalike antifreeze.. though i'm not sure that's much better. :wacko:


----------



## xemmax

Nimyra said:


> This is why its really good to do your research. No one cares about your baby more than you do. I don't care how many medical degrees someone has. No one cares more than me and so no one is in a better position than I am to make (informed) decisions about what is best for my child.

i totally, totally agree with all you said but especially this part. that really is the bottom line. it doesn't matter how much you trust professionals, when it comes to your own child, you can never trust someone regardless. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY. anyone who says that vaccines couldn't possibly contain those things obviously has little to no understanding of vaccines, or the purposes of chemicals.
> 
> i am not anti vaccination at all but i think it's stupid to have 100% faith in medical professionals, and to consider them unbiased is just ridiculous. i think it's important we all do our own research and make our own choices because let's face it, medicine changes very quickly, things are banned, mistakes are made, you only have to look into the past to see what will inevitably happen again in the future.. medicines/vaccinations are only perfect until you realise a whole generation of people are displaying problems and by then, it's way too late for them.Click to expand...
> 
> And i think it's stupid to think that medical professionals have alterior motives :)
> 
> The majority of my family work in the NHS, they are made up of doctors, midwives, surgeons and nurses, so i have had access to alot of information regarding vaccines, so i do have a very broard understanding of what goes into them, and what they do. However, half the time when i am writing replies, i'm breastfeeding so have to be very quick and vague in my responses. If i get a spare minute, i will go into detail on my previous posts.
> 
> They are in that field of work to make people better, and to save lives not to deliberately hurt people. I find it kind of sad that people don't have much faith in medical professionals, although, i am sure if they were face with a life threatening problem, they would snap up treatment right away! I'm definately okay with my baby being injected with a teeny amount of mercury if that means he won't die of some disease.
> 
> This whole thing comes down to personal opinion, and what you believe is right for your child. I'm just a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, and free from disease.Click to expand...
> 
> i think you're misunderstanding my standpoint. i'm not anti vaccination, nor do i not have faith in medical professionals, nor am i some crazed conspiracy theorist who believes that they have ulterior motives.
> 
> my point is, research is constantly changing, views are developing all of the time and as a result what was once considered to be safe and beneficial can immediately be deemed harmful and dangerous should new research arise that counteracts the old. this has and will always happen. therefore, it's imperative that everyone makes their own decisions and not just follow what the medical professionals say as they really are as clueless as the rest of us when it comes down to seeing into the future. they can only predict long term effects to a certain extent.
> 
> i just don't agree with the blind dismissal of opposing views, ie, "no they don't contain those chemicals" when in fact, they do, (and in actuality the contents isn't even the issue, it's the effect of them) etc. i think we should all be able to weigh up the pros and cons ourself.
> 
> oh and for the record, i think everyone is is a firm believer in keeping everyone safe and free from disease, and it's not nice to imply otherwise.Click to expand...


And i agree with everything you said. They do contain certain things yes, but not direct from the vaccine your child will have. And yes advice is constantly changing, i bet you they will next say wean from 48 hours old :haha:

I didn't say you didn't have faith, i didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist, and i didn't say everyone else wasn't a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, that's what you have decided i said, and i don't think it's nice to imply thats what i meant. Everyone wants to keep everyone safe, their children first. That sentence was relative to me only, not what others believe/choose/feel. 

So in a nutshell, yes while a vaccination is being made it can contain certain things from those lists of course, but definately not others, and what your child will actually be injected with will definately not be half of whats listed there

Anyway, getting back on track..

Does anyone know how i go about delaying Leni's next lot of vaccinations? I don't like how they are so soon after one another. Do i phone up and rebook my appointment?


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> research is created using fetal cells, and where do you think they obtain them?
> 
> one of my friends is completing her phd and has conducted research using fetal brain cells.Click to expand...
> 
> My Uncle, who completed his PHD many years ago, says that when a child is vaccinated, fetal cells are not injected with it.Click to expand...
> 
> sorry i don't understand what he means. are not injected with it? as in, the fetal cells are not contained within the vaccine? well, perhaps that's true, i honestly don't know although i will say that as every vaccine has been produced separately and many years and years apart, each one is different, so you can't make broad statements about all vaccines.
> 
> my understanding is that the cells are used within the research and/or production of the vaccine itself. whether they appear in the finished vaccine i don't know, but my point is it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to believe they are apparent in a vaccine when it's common knowledge the cells are used within the medical world.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes that's right, the fetal cells are not within the vaccine as it's being administered. If they were i probably wouldn't be so keen to vaccinate Leni at all.
> 
> Of course they are, thats how the majority of research is made. I'm not disputing that at all - i just don't want anybody thinking that the vaccine being injected into their child has bits of aborted babies and anti freeze.Click to expand...
> 
> well, at the bare minimum they have been produced using fetal cells and they contain preservatives, some with chemical compounds not too unalike antifreeze.. though i'm not sure that's much better. :wacko:Click to expand...

Definately doesn't sound that much better, i'm glad it's not in the actual vaccination Leni gets.


----------



## Laughing Girl

I just cancelled Isla's second set of injections and took her along a couple of months later. The same with her third set. She's just had them at 7months.


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> Nimyra said:
> 
> 
> This is why its really good to do your research. No one cares about your baby more than you do. I don't care how many medical degrees someone has. No one cares more than me and so no one is in a better position than I am to make (informed) decisions about what is best for my child.
> 
> i totally, totally agree with all you said but especially this part. that really is the bottom line. it doesn't matter how much you trust professionals, when it comes to your own child, you can never trust someone regardless. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:Click to expand...

Definately, when it comes to your baby your instint as a Mother will tell you whats right :thumbup::thumbup: :D :D


----------



## aob1013

Laughing Girl said:


> I just cancelled Isla's second set of injections and took her along a couple of months later. The same with her third set. She's just had them at 7months.

Will anyone ask for a reason? x


----------



## xemmax

aob1013 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was &#8216;unsafe at any level if injected into the human body&#8217;; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimer&#8217;s disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40 &#8211; just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY. anyone who says that vaccines couldn't possibly contain those things obviously has little to no understanding of vaccines, or the purposes of chemicals.
> 
> i am not anti vaccination at all but i think it's stupid to have 100% faith in medical professionals, and to consider them unbiased is just ridiculous. i think it's important we all do our own research and make our own choices because let's face it, medicine changes very quickly, things are banned, mistakes are made, you only have to look into the past to see what will inevitably happen again in the future.. medicines/vaccinations are only perfect until you realise a whole generation of people are displaying problems and by then, it's way too late for them.Click to expand...
> 
> And i think it's stupid to think that medical professionals have alterior motives :)
> 
> The majority of my family work in the NHS, they are made up of doctors, midwives, surgeons and nurses, so i have had access to alot of information regarding vaccines, so i do have a very broard understanding of what goes into them, and what they do. However, half the time when i am writing replies, i'm breastfeeding so have to be very quick and vague in my responses. If i get a spare minute, i will go into detail on my previous posts.
> 
> They are in that field of work to make people better, and to save lives not to deliberately hurt people. I find it kind of sad that people don't have much faith in medical professionals, although, i am sure if they were face with a life threatening problem, they would snap up treatment right away! I'm definately okay with my baby being injected with a teeny amount of mercury if that means he won't die of some disease.
> 
> This whole thing comes down to personal opinion, and what you believe is right for your child. I'm just a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, and free from disease.Click to expand...
> 
> i think you're misunderstanding my standpoint. i'm not anti vaccination, nor do i not have faith in medical professionals, nor am i some crazed conspiracy theorist who believes that they have ulterior motives.
> 
> my point is, research is constantly changing, views are developing all of the time and as a result what was once considered to be safe and beneficial can immediately be deemed harmful and dangerous should new research arise that counteracts the old. this has and will always happen. therefore, it's imperative that everyone makes their own decisions and not just follow what the medical professionals say as they really are as clueless as the rest of us when it comes down to seeing into the future. they can only predict long term effects to a certain extent.
> 
> i just don't agree with the blind dismissal of opposing views, ie, "no they don't contain those chemicals" when in fact, they do, (and in actuality the contents isn't even the issue, it's the effect of them) etc. i think we should all be able to weigh up the pros and cons ourself.
> 
> oh and for the record, i think everyone is is a firm believer in keeping everyone safe and free from disease, and it's not nice to imply otherwise.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And i agree with everything you said. They do contain certain things yes, but not direct from the vaccine your child will have. And yes advice is constantly changing, i bet you they will next say wean from 48 hours old :haha:
> 
> I didn't say you didn't have faith, i didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist, and i didn't say everyone else wasn't a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, that's what you have decided i said, and i don't think it's nice to imply thats what i meant. Everyone wants to keep everyone safe, their children first. That sentence was relative to me only, not what others believe/choose/feel.
> 
> So in a nutshell, yes while a vaccination is being made it can contain certain things from those lists of course, but definately not others, and what your child will actually be injected with will definately not be half of whats listed there
> 
> Anyway, getting back on track..
> 
> Does anyone know how i go about delaying Leni's next lot of vaccinations? I don't like how they are so soon after one another. Do i phone up and rebook my appointment?Click to expand...

i think all of those things are probably present in vaccines. of course not all in one, but across them all, you'll probably find all of them and perhaps more.

i'd think you could just call and rearrange your appointment. if they ask, you can just say he is poorly, as they don't vaccinate them if you are.


----------



## ttc_lolly

Again, it's all down to you as your child's parent to do the research, believe what you think is right & protect your child as you deem necessary.

Of course most medical professionals go in to that field to care for others - but you can't just depend on that I'm afraid. The NHS are pro-vaccinations, therefore your NHS family doctor isn't going to advise you against having them done, is he? 

There are people who do just see their profession as a job, to make money, etc. I don't want to go off topic as this has nothing to do with what we are discussing but even worse there are sick individuals (a low minority, of course) out there (in any profession btw!) that aren't in their jobs for the right reasons, or they must actually be crazy (i.e. paedophiles & rapists in the police force, Harold Shipman & that MW/nurse who killed those babies a few years back) but unfortunately this is the world we live in.

Still can't see any posts from mums attacking those who vax, but still those having digs against those who choose not too...


----------



## scottishgal89

What would you do??

My daughter couldn't have vaccinations for medical reasons when they were due.
She has now had the first 3 sets. The last being 2 months ago.

She is now due the 1 year old ones, followed by the MMR.

I'm concerned about the fact they're all so close together


----------



## ttc_lolly

~daisychain~ said:


> What would you do??
> 
> My daughter couldn't have vaccinations for medical reasons when they were due.
> She has now had the first 3 sets. The last being 2 months ago.
> 
> She is now due the 1 year old ones, followed by the MMR.
> 
> I'm concerned about the fact they're all so close together

Speak to your GP or HV hun, maybe they would look at delaying/spacing them out a bit if you are concerned? I will definitely be speaking to my HV to discuss delayed vax and the time in between them that we are comfortable with :flower:


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY. anyone who says that vaccines couldn't possibly contain those things obviously has little to no understanding of vaccines, or the purposes of chemicals.
> 
> i am not anti vaccination at all but i think it's stupid to have 100% faith in medical professionals, and to consider them unbiased is just ridiculous. i think it's important we all do our own research and make our own choices because let's face it, medicine changes very quickly, things are banned, mistakes are made, you only have to look into the past to see what will inevitably happen again in the future.. medicines/vaccinations are only perfect until you realise a whole generation of people are displaying problems and by then, it's way too late for them.Click to expand...
> 
> And i think it's stupid to think that medical professionals have alterior motives :)
> 
> The majority of my family work in the NHS, they are made up of doctors, midwives, surgeons and nurses, so i have had access to alot of information regarding vaccines, so i do have a very broard understanding of what goes into them, and what they do. However, half the time when i am writing replies, i'm breastfeeding so have to be very quick and vague in my responses. If i get a spare minute, i will go into detail on my previous posts.
> 
> They are in that field of work to make people better, and to save lives not to deliberately hurt people. I find it kind of sad that people don't have much faith in medical professionals, although, i am sure if they were face with a life threatening problem, they would snap up treatment right away! I'm definately okay with my baby being injected with a teeny amount of mercury if that means he won't die of some disease.
> 
> This whole thing comes down to personal opinion, and what you believe is right for your child. I'm just a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, and free from disease.Click to expand...
> 
> i think you're misunderstanding my standpoint. i'm not anti vaccination, nor do i not have faith in medical professionals, nor am i some crazed conspiracy theorist who believes that they have ulterior motives.
> 
> my point is, research is constantly changing, views are developing all of the time and as a result what was once considered to be safe and beneficial can immediately be deemed harmful and dangerous should new research arise that counteracts the old. this has and will always happen. therefore, it's imperative that everyone makes their own decisions and not just follow what the medical professionals say as they really are as clueless as the rest of us when it comes down to seeing into the future. they can only predict long term effects to a certain extent.
> 
> i just don't agree with the blind dismissal of opposing views, ie, "no they don't contain those chemicals" when in fact, they do, (and in actuality the contents isn't even the issue, it's the effect of them) etc. i think we should all be able to weigh up the pros and cons ourself.
> 
> oh and for the record, i think everyone is is a firm believer in keeping everyone safe and free from disease, and it's not nice to imply otherwise.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And i agree with everything you said. They do contain certain things yes, but not direct from the vaccine your child will have. And yes advice is constantly changing, i bet you they will next say wean from 48 hours old :haha:
> 
> I didn't say you didn't have faith, i didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist, and i didn't say everyone else wasn't a firm believer in keeping everyone safe, that's what you have decided i said, and i don't think it's nice to imply thats what i meant. Everyone wants to keep everyone safe, their children first. That sentence was relative to me only, not what others believe/choose/feel.
> 
> So in a nutshell, yes while a vaccination is being made it can contain certain things from those lists of course, but definately not others, and what your child will actually be injected with will definately not be half of whats listed there
> 
> Anyway, getting back on track..
> 
> Does anyone know how i go about delaying Leni's next lot of vaccinations? I don't like how they are so soon after one another. Do i phone up and rebook my appointment?Click to expand...
> 
> i think all of those things are probably present in vaccines. of course not all in one, but across them all, you'll probably find all of them and perhaps more.
> 
> i'd think you could just call and rearrange your appointment. if they ask, you can just say he is poorly, as they don't vaccinate them if you are.Click to expand...

Thanks for that Emma, go excuse aswell :lol:


----------



## AlwaysPraying

Two things:

1. I think it's interesting that so many people are after the ingredients in the shots. Yes it's valid to want to know and understand. But there are so many ingredients in things we give our kids everyday that we probably shouldn't. Yellow #4 red #7 etc. Chemicals that have not been tested at all. Yet we as mothers give our kids candies and other things with these chemicals in them everyday (yes not all parents do but a lot)

2. In regards to the safety. In Canada anyways it is impossible to get a flu shot for a baby under six months old. Clearly the risks outweigh the benefit of not doin the flu shot at this age. I find that comforting that he medical community has decided that. The same community that decided it is important to give other shots earlier. 

All that being said I'm personally on the fence. Still trying to decide what's best for my son. Finding this conversation interesting!


----------



## IvyBaby

AlwaysPraying said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1. I think it's interesting that so many people are after the ingredients in the shots. Yes it's valid to want to know and understand. But there are so many ingredients in things we give our kids everyday that we probably shouldn't. Yellow #4 red #7 etc. Chemicals that have not been tested at all. Yet we as mothers give our kids candies and other things with these chemicals in them everyday (yes not all parents do but a lot)
> 
> 2. In regards to the safety. In Canada anyways it is impossible to get a flu shot for a baby under six months old. Clearly the risks outweigh the benefit of not doin the flu shot at this age. I find that comforting that he medical community has decided that. The same community that decided it is important to give other shots earlier.
> 
> All that being said I'm personally on the fence. Still trying to decide what's best for my son. Finding this conversation interesting!

We personally try to buy everything organic and avoid any processed foods :)


----------



## aob1013

IvyBaby said:


> AlwaysPraying said:
> 
> 
> Two things:
> 
> 1. I think it's interesting that so many people are after the ingredients in the shots. Yes it's valid to want to know and understand. But there are so many ingredients in things we give our kids everyday that we probably shouldn't. Yellow #4 red #7 etc. Chemicals that have not been tested at all. Yet we as mothers give our kids candies and other things with these chemicals in them everyday (yes not all parents do but a lot)
> 
> 2. In regards to the safety. In Canada anyways it is impossible to get a flu shot for a baby under six months old. Clearly the risks outweigh the benefit of not doin the flu shot at this age. I find that comforting that he medical community has decided that. The same community that decided it is important to give other shots earlier.
> 
> All that being said I'm personally on the fence. Still trying to decide what's best for my son. Finding this conversation interesting!
> 
> We personally try to buy everything organic and avoid any processed foods :)Click to expand...

Ditto :)


----------



## IvyBaby

aob1013 said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> Until then, what a trained medical profession deems necessary for my son to potentially save his life i will definately accept.
> 
> I'm definately sure half of what is listed in those pargraphs is rubbish.Click to expand...

Even if it is so, the other half would also concern me. 

I think the only difference between the two parties here is that some choose to accept what medical professionals say without a question, but others don't. Modern medicine has done a lot to help people, but, at the same time, it has killed or crippled plenty along the way.


----------



## wishingonastar

aob1013 said:


> IvyBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Ok so what i want to know is is it true what goes into these vaccines that we are injecting into our children.
> 
> Re:-
> 
> 2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
> 
> The list of vaccine ingredients includes toxins such as formaldehyde, a substance which the Queensland Poisons Control Centre has said was unsafe at any level if injected into the human body; carbolic acid, also a strong poison which was implicated in deaths and serious injuries in a recent Sydney hospital mishap; aluminium which is linked with the development of Alzheimers disease and allergies; and Thiomersal, a mercury-based preservative which is a known neurotoxin and whose inclusion in vaccination sparked a series of Congressional hearings which saw the US Government and the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) call for its immediate withdrawal from any vaccine product and which was withdrawn over two years ago in the USA from any over-the-counter medicines. It was also withdrawn from the American Hepatatis B vaccines, Engerix and HB Vax II, though their Australian counterparts which are still being injected into children here today, are only just being made mercury free or mercury reduced (though the old, mercury-laced stocks will be used up rather than being withdrawn from use).
> 
> 3) Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria
> 
> All childhood vaccines, apart from the Hepatitis B (which is genetically engineered and carries with it a different set of problems,) are cultured on either animal tissue, a broth of animal and/or human blood and blood products or the cell lines from aborted human foetuses. None of these culturing methods is able to guarantee an uncontaminated vaccine. In fact, it is well known that many foreign viruses and bacteria can and do contaminate vaccines. Almost none of these contaminants have been studied. The few which have been leave many parents concerned about the long-term effects of injecting these substances into their children. For instance, SV 40 (simian or monkey virus 40  just one of 60 monkey viruses known to contaminate the polio vaccines) has been linked with cancers in humans; there is a chicken retrovirus which contaminates the measles and mumps vaccines called Reverse Transcriptase. This substance, an ancient non-human DNA code, is thought to switch on the HIV virus and cause it to become AIDS in humans; AIDS itself has been linked with a virus called SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) which contaminated both the polio and smallpox vaccines; the current MMR (measles mumps rubella) and other vaccines which contain bovine (cow) blood products are thought to be able to spread the human and always fatal form of mad cow disease, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, more readily than eating contaminated meat.
> 
> Someone also said once that their were aborted babies and anti freeze in them too :roll:
> 
> Those paragraphs just make me laugh. It's so scaremongering and untrue.
> Where were they from?
> 
> Believe me, a vaccine will be nothing compared to all the medicines, antibiotics, sureries etc your LO will have to go through if they catch a disease - and i'm sure you wouldn't refuse those.
> 
> Use your common sense here, you are an intelligent woman Shannon. *Do you honestly think all of us Mothers would vaccinate our kids, and all these medical professionals (who btw go into this field to save lives) would inject our children if they contained these things?*Click to expand...
> 
> No disrespect but you are bit naive here. Vaccines used to contain thiomersal (mercury is the most toxic heavy metal) and it was recently removed, but until then...Click to expand...
> 
> Until then, what a trained medical profession deems necessary for my son to potentially save his life i will definately accept.
> 
> I'm definately sure half of what is listed in those pargraphs is rubbish.Click to expand...

rubella was one of the first vaccines to be made with the flesh of an aborted baby - taken from "Raising a Vaccine Free Child" by Wendy Lydall (fully referenced within the book)

From the same source "Vaccinators do not tell parents what ingredients vaccines contain. Most vaccinators do not know that apart from the germs which are included to create antibodies, vaccines contain mercury, aluminium, formaldehyde, animal flesh, animal blood, human blood, human cells from aborted babies, potatoes, yeast, lactose, phenol, antibiotics and unrelated species of germs which inadvertently get into the vaccine culture."


----------



## AlwaysPraying

You can ask for a list of ingredients and they will supply it to you. 

For me it's a matter of trusting the industry and the system that protects the people. I do my due diligence and have to trust myself after that. 

I have issue with genetically modified foods myself and chemicals in things. Medicines are something I don't totally understand and I would say most people don't understand fully. (don't jump down my throat, im just saying there's more understanding if you are first hand educated and not just a regular person researching it).


----------



## ShanandBoc

AlwaysPraying said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1. I think it's interesting that so many people are after the ingredients in the shots. Yes it's valid to want to know and understand. But there are so many ingredients in things we give our kids everyday that we probably shouldn't. Yellow #4 red #7 etc. Chemicals that have not been tested at all. Yet we as mothers give our kids candies and other things with these chemicals in them everyday (yes not all parents do but a lot)
> 
> 2. In regards to the safety. In Canada anyways it is impossible to get a flu shot for a baby under six months old. Clearly the risks outweigh the benefit of not doin the flu shot at this age. I find that comforting that he medical community has decided that. The same community that decided it is important to give other shots earlier.
> 
> All that being said I'm personally on the fence. Still trying to decide what's best for my son. Finding this conversation interesting!

Why wouldnt you you want to know what is being being injected into your childs bloodstream? Thats far more serious imo, and at such a young age too. I dont plan on giving my baby candy. But i am expected to immunise!

The colourings u mentioned may not be great but personally im far more concerned about whats in these vaccines.


----------



## AlwaysPraying

I never said I didn't want to know what was in the shots at all. In fact I think it's very important to know. I was making a comment that there are a whole lot of other chemicals being ingested that we should think about as well.


----------



## ShanandBoc

of course!


----------



## helen1234

I get the wanting to know what's in a vaccine, but surely if they do contract one of these deadly illnesses they pumping far more into them to save their lives, esp antibiotics, I font want to change the subject but if were talking fetal flesh etc going into our children would you turn Down a donor organ too or a blood transfusion, I mean if were going to nit pick everything medical at some point we've probably eaten, swallowed or injected something we'd think eeeeew at surely. 

But going back to the original question of long term effects of not vaccinating and long term effects, I think the answer Is simple you either won't get a disease or you will, 
I thinknthe question should be what's the long term effects of getting a vaccine, well your more likely to get the answer 'were fine and we're fit and healthy' 
X


----------



## wishingonastar

AlwaysPraying said:


> I never said I didn't want to know what was in the shots at all. In fact I think it's very important to know. I was making a comment that there are a whole lot of other chemicals being ingested that we should think about as well.

When something is ingested the body puts it through the necessary processes to deal with it and the body utilises different organs and so forth to try and filter harmful substances before they are able to enter the bloodstream, whereas injections bypass the natural defence system and put everything straight in the bloodstream


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x


----------



## wishingonastar

Aidan's Mummy said:


> XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
> You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
> Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x

Ultimately I'd rather isabel caught nothing and was fit as a fiddle forever. Realistically the chance of this is slim to none therefore I weighed up my research and am of the opinion that childhood illnesses caught in childhood in a healthy child have little risk of complications if the illness is handled correctly and with respect and has been linked (in the cases of measles and chicken pox) to an improved immune system afterwards. Vaccinations do not mean she will not get the illness and even if they protect her in childhood she will as a result of the vaccine not have lifelong immunity (which she would get from catching the illness naturally) and therefore is at risk of getting it as an adult when the risk of complications is increased.

Diseases that are not classed as childhood illnesses are another matter. A vaccinated person is still at risk and diseases such as diptheria do not produce lifelong immunity once caught and it is of no particular recorded benefit to the immune system to catch and defeat it therefore I truly hope she never develops diseases such as these; however I have researched and am continuing to research awareness and care should this happen


----------



## Serene123

I haven't read the thread just want to give my personal opinion :flower:

Caitlyn had all of her vaccinations until I found out I could say no to those I did not wish for her to have. In which case she would NOT have had her BCG as the chance of her getting Tuberculosis is very low. She also did not have the MMR until I decided that she was more likely to get measles than to have problems from the jab.

I think vaccinations are another totally personal decision that people should advise but not push or scare people into or out of.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

wishingonastar said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
> You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
> Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x
> 
> Ultimately I'd rather isabel caught nothing and was fit as a fiddle forever. Realistically the chance of this is slim to none therefore I weighed up my research and am of the opinion that childhood illnesses caught in childhood in a healthy child have little risk of complications if the illness is handled correctly and with respect and has been linked (in the cases of measles and chicken pox) to an improved immune system afterwards. Vaccinations do not mean she will not get the illness and even if they protect her in childhood she will as a result of the vaccine not have lifelong immunity (which she would get from catching the illness naturally) and therefore is at risk of getting it as an adult when the risk of complications is increased.
> 
> Diseases that are not classed as childhood illnesses are another matter. A vaccinated person is still at risk and diseases such as diptheria do not produce lifelong immunity once caught and it is of no particular recorded benefit to the immune system to catch and defeat it therefore I truly hope she never develops diseases such as these; however I have researched and am continuing to research awareness and care should this happenClick to expand...

Some children I have seen in my time in placement have caught illnesses such a measles, wooping cough and other disease that can be vaccinated againts. The disease is now gone but some fo them are blind, have respiratory problems, lost limbs and are paralised. Vacciantions do not stop you from getting the disease BUt they lessen the impact of it if contracted. The children I have seen were not vaccinated. Yes the chances are slim but not so slim it would never happen and even in todays advanced medical world, some of teh diseases can and will affect children for the rest of their lives even if caught early. Because children deteroate rapidly and it is often hard to stabalise them. Also the reason the chances are slim is because of vaccinations the more people continue to not vaccinate the higher the chance of getting a disease
xx


----------



## wishingonastar

Aidan's Mummy said:


> wishingonastar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
> You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
> Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x
> 
> Ultimately I'd rather isabel caught nothing and was fit as a fiddle forever. Realistically the chance of this is slim to none therefore I weighed up my research and am of the opinion that childhood illnesses caught in childhood in a healthy child have little risk of complications if the illness is handled correctly and with respect and has been linked (in the cases of measles and chicken pox) to an improved immune system afterwards. Vaccinations do not mean she will not get the illness and even if they protect her in childhood she will as a result of the vaccine not have lifelong immunity (which she would get from catching the illness naturally) and therefore is at risk of getting it as an adult when the risk of complications is increased.
> 
> Diseases that are not classed as childhood illnesses are another matter. A vaccinated person is still at risk and diseases such as diptheria do not produce lifelong immunity once caught and it is of no particular recorded benefit to the immune system to catch and defeat it therefore I truly hope she never develops diseases such as these; however I have researched and am continuing to research awareness and care should this happenClick to expand...
> 
> Some children I have seen in my time in placement have caught illnesses such a measles, wooping cough and other disease that can be vaccinated againts. The disease is now gone but some fo them are blind, have respiratory problems, lost limbs and are paralised. Vacciantions do not stop you from getting the disease BUt they lessen the impact of it if contracted. The children I have seen were not vaccinated. Yes the chances are slim but not so slim it would never happen and even in todays advanced medical world, some of teh diseases can and will affect children for the rest of their lives even if caught early. Because children deteroate rapidly and it is often hard to stabalise them. Also the reason the chances are slim is because of vaccinations the more people continue to not vaccinate the higher the chance of getting a disease
> xxClick to expand...

And that will have contributed to your decisions as a mother, as my experience and knowledge contributes to mine :flower:


----------



## ShanandBoc

The more i read on this subject the more confused and indecisive i get :(


----------



## AlwaysPraying

^ I'm with you on that.


----------



## helen1234

Aidan's Mummy said:


> wishingonastar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
> You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
> Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x
> 
> Ultimately I'd rather isabel caught nothing and was fit as a fiddle forever. Realistically the chance of this is slim to none therefore I weighed up my research and am of the opinion that childhood illnesses caught in childhood in a healthy child have little risk of complications if the illness is handled correctly and with respect and has been linked (in the cases of measles and chicken pox) to an improved immune system afterwards. Vaccinations do not mean she will not get the illness and even if they protect her in childhood she will as a result of the vaccine not have lifelong immunity (which she would get from catching the illness naturally) and therefore is at risk of getting it as an adult when the risk of complications is increased.
> 
> Diseases that are not classed as childhood illnesses are another matter. A vaccinated person is still at risk and diseases such as diptheria do not produce lifelong immunity once caught and it is of no particular recorded benefit to the immune system to catch and defeat it therefore I truly hope she never develops diseases such as these; however I have researched and am continuing to research awareness and care should this happenClick to expand...
> 
> Some children I have seen in my time in placement have caught illnesses such a measles, wooping cough and other disease that can be vaccinated againts. The disease is now gone but some fo them are blind, have respiratory problems, lost limbs and are paralised. Vacciantions do not stop you from getting the disease BUt they lessen the impact of it if contracted. The children I have seen were not vaccinated. Yes the chances are slim but not so slim it would never happen and even in todays advanced medical world, some of teh diseases can and will affect children for the rest of their lives even if caught early. Because children deteroate rapidly and it is often hard to stabalise them. Also the reason the chances are slim is because of vaccinations the more people continue to not vaccinate the higher the chance of getting a disease
> xxClick to expand...

hunni your going to make the most amazing childrens nurse:thumbup:, your only 17 yrs old, and your more intelligent than most 40 yr olds xxx


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

helen1234 said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wishingonastar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
> You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
> Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x
> 
> Ultimately I'd rather isabel caught nothing and was fit as a fiddle forever. Realistically the chance of this is slim to none therefore I weighed up my research and am of the opinion that childhood illnesses caught in childhood in a healthy child have little risk of complications if the illness is handled correctly and with respect and has been linked (in the cases of measles and chicken pox) to an improved immune system afterwards. Vaccinations do not mean she will not get the illness and even if they protect her in childhood she will as a result of the vaccine not have lifelong immunity (which she would get from catching the illness naturally) and therefore is at risk of getting it as an adult when the risk of complications is increased.
> 
> Diseases that are not classed as childhood illnesses are another matter. A vaccinated person is still at risk and diseases such as diptheria do not produce lifelong immunity once caught and it is of no particular recorded benefit to the immune system to catch and defeat it therefore I truly hope she never develops diseases such as these; however I have researched and am continuing to research awareness and care should this happenClick to expand...
> 
> Some children I have seen in my time in placement have caught illnesses such a measles, wooping cough and other disease that can be vaccinated againts. The disease is now gone but some fo them are blind, have respiratory problems, lost limbs and are paralised. Vacciantions do not stop you from getting the disease BUt they lessen the impact of it if contracted. The children I have seen were not vaccinated. Yes the chances are slim but not so slim it would never happen and even in todays advanced medical world, some of teh diseases can and will affect children for the rest of their lives even if caught early. Because children deteroate rapidly and it is often hard to stabalise them. Also the reason the chances are slim is because of vaccinations the more people continue to not vaccinate the higher the chance of getting a disease
> xxClick to expand...
> 
> hunni your going to make the most amazing childrens nurse:thumbup:, your only 17 yrs old, and your more intelligent than most 40 yr olds xxxClick to expand...

Aww thank you hunni. Only my first placement and I am loving it :). I am 19 now though :rofl: Doesn't seem long ago that I was 17 though :)
x


----------



## helen1234

Aidan's Mummy said:


> helen1234 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wishingonastar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> XOne thing I am wondering is. ( not trying to be horrible or cause an argument) the ladies that don't vaccinate,would you rather your child get the desease and build an immunity? If so isn't that risky. As some of the diseases have life limiting side effects and are.often very painful
> You could always Say it won't happen to me. I said that about becoming pregnant whilst using contraception (so the odds were pretty low to become pregnant ) but I still did
> Do you see what I mean? (Again I don't mean my question in a horrible way ) x
> 
> Ultimately I'd rather isabel caught nothing and was fit as a fiddle forever. Realistically the chance of this is slim to none therefore I weighed up my research and am of the opinion that childhood illnesses caught in childhood in a healthy child have little risk of complications if the illness is handled correctly and with respect and has been linked (in the cases of measles and chicken pox) to an improved immune system afterwards. Vaccinations do not mean she will not get the illness and even if they protect her in childhood she will as a result of the vaccine not have lifelong immunity (which she would get from catching the illness naturally) and therefore is at risk of getting it as an adult when the risk of complications is increased.
> 
> Diseases that are not classed as childhood illnesses are another matter. A vaccinated person is still at risk and diseases such as diptheria do not produce lifelong immunity once caught and it is of no particular recorded benefit to the immune system to catch and defeat it therefore I truly hope she never develops diseases such as these; however I have researched and am continuing to research awareness and care should this happenClick to expand...
> 
> Some children I have seen in my time in placement have caught illnesses such a measles, wooping cough and other disease that can be vaccinated againts. The disease is now gone but some fo them are blind, have respiratory problems, lost limbs and are paralised. Vacciantions do not stop you from getting the disease BUt they lessen the impact of it if contracted. The children I have seen were not vaccinated. Yes the chances are slim but not so slim it would never happen and even in todays advanced medical world, some of teh diseases can and will affect children for the rest of their lives even if caught early. Because children deteroate rapidly and it is often hard to stabalise them. Also the reason the chances are slim is because of vaccinations the more people continue to not vaccinate the higher the chance of getting a disease
> xxClick to expand...
> 
> hunni your going to make the most amazing childrens nurse:thumbup:, your only 17 yrs old, and your more intelligent than most 40 yr olds xxxClick to expand...
> 
> Aww thank you hunni. Only my first placement and I am loving it :). I am 19 now though :rofl: Doesn't seem long ago that I was 17 though :)
> xClick to expand...

:dohh: i meant to say 16 when you came to the forum derrrr, blame the preg brain :haha:


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

:rofl: Yeah blame your preg brain :). I used to love that excuse ha ha
x


----------



## BabyJayne

ttc_lolly said:


> Again, it's all down to you as your child's parent to do the research, believe what you think is right & protect your child as you deem necessary.
> 
> Of course most medical professionals go in to that field to care for others - but you can't just depend on that I'm afraid. The NHS are pro-vaccinations, therefore your NHS family doctor isn't going to advise you against having them done, is he?
> 
> There are people who do just see their profession as a job, to make money, etc. I don't want to go off topic as this has nothing to do with what we are discussing but even worse there are sick individuals (a low minority, of course) out there (in any profession btw!) that aren't in their jobs for the right reasons, or they must actually be crazy (i.e. paedophiles & rapists in the police force, Harold Shipman & that MW/nurse who killed those babies a few years back) but unfortunately this is the world we live in.
> 
> *Still can't see any posts from mums attacking those who vax, but still those having digs against those who choose not too...*

*
*

...nice attempt to stir it up again there...:nope:


----------



## AriannasMama

I am surprised to see this thread still in a happy mood, I don't get why they get heated in the first place, if you want to vaccinate, go ahead, if you don't, then don't, its no ones place to argue about what you do with your own child unless its outright wrong and harmful to them. 

:)


----------



## IvyBaby

mrs.stokes said:


> I am surprised to see this thread still in a happy mood, I don't get why they get heated in the first place, if you want to vaccinate, go ahead, if you don't, then don't, its no ones place to argue about what you do with your own child unless its outright wrong and harmful to them.
> 
> :)

Exactly what I believe too.


----------



## scottishgal89

Does anyone know if it's safe to give hep b etc booster a few months after the first vaccination? They're usually given about 10months apart.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

I have had the hep b months apart hun. It should ve ok because it isn't a live vaccine. Double check with the nurse xx


----------



## mommyof3co

Here the first Hep B is given at birth, then the 2nd dose at 1-2mo then the 3rd no earlier than 24wks. Unless the vaccines are composed differently there it's probably fine, but def talk to your nurse or dr about it first.


----------



## scottishgal89

That's ok then. Just feels like a lot all so close together. Then the Mmr will be a month after. Should that be ok?


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Yes it should be hun. But make sure you double check x


----------



## mommyof3co

It should be, usually at least a month in between is good, but certain vaccines are fine to be given at the same time. I'd just double check with your dr so they know when her last doses were and how everything is set up now, just make sure it's alright. But you might want to look into holding off on the MMR until she's 15mo because it's been shown that doing it before then the measles portion is less likely to take

" In the national outbreak of measles during the late 1980's and early 1990's, it also became apparent that children who had been vaccinated before 15 months of age were also at risk for vaccine failure, especially if their mothers had recovered naturally from measles disease as children. An MMR vaccine manufacturer states "Infants who are less than 15 months of age may fail to respond to the measles component of the vaccine due to presence in the circulation of residual measles antibody of maternal origin, the younger the infant, the lower the likelihood of seroconversion." The manufacturer goes on to advise that infants vaccinated at less than 12 months of age will have to be revaccinated after 15 months of age even though "there is some evidence to suggest that infants immunized at less than one year of age may not develop sustained antibody levels when later immunized."

Might just be something to look into and see if it might be worth waiting just to increase the chances of it working fully with her :)


----------



## scottishgal89

mommyof3co said:


> It should be, usually at least a month in between is good, but certain vaccines are fine to be given at the same time. I'd just double check with your dr so they know when her last doses were and how everything is set up now, just make sure it's alright. But you might want to look into holding off on the MMR until she's 15mo because it's been shown that doing it before then the measles portion is less likely to take
> 
> " In the national outbreak of measles during the late 1980's and early 1990's, it also became apparent that children who had been vaccinated before 15 months of age were also at risk for vaccine failure, especially if their mothers had recovered naturally from measles disease as children. An MMR vaccine manufacturer states "Infants who are less than 15 months of age may fail to respond to the measles component of the vaccine due to presence in the circulation of residual measles antibody of maternal origin, the younger the infant, the lower the likelihood of seroconversion." The manufacturer goes on to advise that infants vaccinated at less than 12 months of age will have to be revaccinated after 15 months of age even though "there is some evidence to suggest that infants immunized at less than one year of age may not develop sustained antibody levels when later immunized."
> 
> Might just be something to look into and see if it might be worth waiting just to increase the chances of it working fully with her :)

Perfect. Thanks for the info!
I was considering putting the MMR back a bit anyway but now I think I will.
Feel like it's throwing a bit much at her too quickly along with everything else, anti-epileptic drugs, etc


----------



## ttc_lolly

BabyJayne said:


> ttc_lolly said:
> 
> 
> Again, it's all down to you as your child's parent to do the research, believe what you think is right & protect your child as you deem necessary.
> 
> Of course most medical professionals go in to that field to care for others - but you can't just depend on that I'm afraid. The NHS are pro-vaccinations, therefore your NHS family doctor isn't going to advise you against having them done, is he?
> 
> There are people who do just see their profession as a job, to make money, etc. I don't want to go off topic as this has nothing to do with what we are discussing but even worse there are sick individuals (a low minority, of course) out there (in any profession btw!) that aren't in their jobs for the right reasons, or they must actually be crazy (i.e. paedophiles & rapists in the police force, Harold Shipman & that MW/nurse who killed those babies a few years back) but unfortunately this is the world we live in.
> 
> *Still can't see any posts from mums attacking those who vax, but still those having digs against those who choose not too...*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> ...nice attempt to stir it up again there...:nope:Click to expand...

Not my intention at all :dohh: but same could be said to you :thumbup: instead of having a dig at me, why not contribute something relevant to the thread?


----------



## aob1013

:roll:


----------



## BabyJayne

I just didn't think it was necessary to make that point and decided to say as such. And I have posted. Thanks.


----------



## Wobbles

Don't report the post then carry it on https://s2.bbstatic.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif that doesn't help.

Please ladies ...adults?


----------



## ShanandBoc

Well i chose to vax in the end....and im happy with my decision, although it was not an easy one. I can see both sides to this arguement as we all only want to protect our LO's

We ended up giving our little girl her first lot yesterday at 6 weeks under recommendation from our doctor as there has been a whooping cough outbreak here......so far , so good she was a little unsettled last night but today she seems fine :) Poor little bubba screamed only for a bout 5 seconds when they gave her injections but was a horrible thing to watch

I just wish these nasty illnesses didnt exist so we didnt have to worry about it full stop. x


----------



## aob1013

So glad you did :) x


----------



## Justagirlxx

ShanandBoc said:


> Well i chose to vax in the end....and im happy with my decision, although it was not an easy one. I can see both sides to this arguement as we all only want to protect our LO's
> 
> We ended up giving our little girl her first lot yesterday at 6 weeks under recommendation from our doctor as there has been a whooping cough outbreak here......so far , so good she was a little unsettled last night but today she seems fine :) Poor little bubba screamed only for a bout 5 seconds when they gave her injections but was a horrible thing to watch
> 
> I just wish these nasty illnesses didnt exist so we didnt have to worry about it full stop. x

Just want you to know that they dont vaccinate for Pertuccis (whopping cough, part of the DTaP vaccine) until 18 months old, so those vaccines won't protect her against an outbreak.


----------



## Nimyra

Justagirlxx said:


> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Well i chose to vax in the end....and im happy with my decision, although it was not an easy one. I can see both sides to this arguement as we all only want to protect our LO's
> 
> We ended up giving our little girl her first lot yesterday at 6 weeks under recommendation from our doctor as there has been a whooping cough outbreak here......so far , so good she was a little unsettled last night but today she seems fine :) Poor little bubba screamed only for a bout 5 seconds when they gave her injections but was a horrible thing to watch
> 
> I just wish these nasty illnesses didnt exist so we didnt have to worry about it full stop. x
> 
> Just want you to know that they dont vaccinate for Pertuccis (whopping cough, part of the DTaP vaccine) until 18 months old, so those vaccines won't protect her against an outbreak.Click to expand...

The DTaP is one of the ones given at 2,4, and 6 months I believe.


----------



## PeaceLoveBaby

my LO got th whooping cough vax at 8 weeks as well.


----------



## cissyhope

ShanandBoc said:


> The more i read on this subject the more confused and indecisive i get :(

 oh me too :dohh: my lo due to have his first lot next week. what to do? :shrug:


----------



## Justagirlxx

Oh woops sorry I was thinking of the MMR shot, but I think they just bumped that up to a year old anyway. :dohh:

Though the child wont have full immunity from pertuccis until 18 months.


----------



## ShanandBoc

Nimyra said:


> Justagirlxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShanandBoc said:
> 
> 
> Well i chose to vax in the end....and im happy with my decision, although it was not an easy one. I can see both sides to this arguement as we all only want to protect our LO's
> 
> We ended up giving our little girl her first lot yesterday at 6 weeks under recommendation from our doctor as there has been a whooping cough outbreak here......so far , so good she was a little unsettled last night but today she seems fine :) Poor little bubba screamed only for a bout 5 seconds when they gave her injections but was a horrible thing to watch
> 
> I just wish these nasty illnesses didnt exist so we didnt have to worry about it full stop. x
> 
> Just want you to know that they dont vaccinate for Pertuccis (whopping cough, part of the DTaP vaccine) until 18 months old, so those vaccines won't protect her against an outbreak.Click to expand...
> 
> The DTaP is one of the ones given at 2,4, and 6 months I believe.Click to expand...

Correct! :flower:


----------



## leoniebabey

I was a bit dubious about giving LO them as my dad had a bad reaction to one of them, cant remember which so he had to be given them seperate and the one he was allergic to missed out 
I was fine with them so made the decision for him to have them, at the end of the day alothough i can see the argument on both sides if LO was to catch soemthing i'd feel so guilty and these diseases are on the rise due to people not vaccinating


----------



## ShanandBoc

I found this on another baby forum..... This gorgeous little boy had his DTaP vax which caused a complex febrile convulsion which caused epilepsy and ended in his death, very sad, RIP little man xxx 

https://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2010/12/death-of-elias-tembenis-ruled-vaccine.html

and the findings....

https://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/LORD.TEMBENIS112910.pdf

My LO had her vaccine only last week.....I know its rare but i still think its good if we are all informed about deaths from vaccines as well as the deaths from illnesses they help prevent


----------



## scottishgal89

That's so sad :(
My LO has epilepsy already and I had to monitor her really closely afterwards.
I've delayed the Hep B and she wont get the MMR for another 5months or something.
Missed the Hep B appointment because of the snow.
I'm taking that as a little sign for now.
Her little body is full of enough drugs for now


----------



## Farie

Nim will be getting some vaccines on a selective and delayed schedule.
Her MMR will be done using separate jabs and there are a couple we'll probably leave out as the risk is so small I see no reason to jab her.


----------



## ShanandBoc

~daisychain~ said:


> That's so sad :(
> My LO has epilepsy already and I had to monitor her really closely afterwards.
> I've delayed the Hep B and she wont get the MMR for another 5months or something.
> Missed the Hep B appointment because of the snow.
> I'm taking that as a little sign for now.
> Her little body is full of enough drugs for now

Sorry to hear about ur LO daisychain xxx


----------



## tannembaum

I was thinking about not letting LO have the MMR (still unsure, may delay it if we're still BFing) as I didn't have the MMR and I'm fine BUT I sat down and really thought about it and I'm not actually that healthy.

I'm 24 and at 18 I caught mumps, it wasn't nice but I wasn't seriously ill. 
About 2 weeks after I recovered I got seriously ill, I was really sick, v.v.v high temp, sick, pussing blisters in my mouth and throat just to mention a few things that were wrong. I was seriously sick for 2 months and didn't leave the house at all in that time except to go to the hospital to get strong painkillers injected into my thighs, I also lost almost 2 stone in weight (which I was happy about once I recovered :haha:) and went down to about 7.5 stone.

You might think I'm over exagerating (sp?) but at one point I remember lying on the living room floor with the room spining and going in and out of consiousness with my mum on the phone to the hospital, I led there thinking I was dying and not to panic as I didn't want to frighten my mum!

It turns out I had caught glandualar fever (which is very comon after having mumps) and I was also having a bad reaction to the painkillers and antibiotics I was on.

Glandular fever messes with your hyperthalamus (sp?) which tells you when you're full so I was eating TONES after I was well and put my 2 stone back on eventually, I still have to tell my self I must be full when eating and that I'm not hungry anymore! It also lowers your immune system so I get every bug going and Im ill at least once a month!!

I put my illness down to having mumps which I would not have gotten if I had had my MMR! Obviously this is quite an extreme case but I thought I would tell you my story as I'm older than your LOs who haven't had the MMR.


----------



## PepsiChic

ShanandBoc said:


> I found this on another baby forum..... This gorgeous little boy had his DTaP vax which caused a complex febrile convulsion which caused epilepsy and ended in his death, very sad, RIP little man xxx
> 
> https://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2010/12/death-of-elias-tembenis-ruled-vaccine.html
> 
> and the findings....
> 
> https://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/LORD.TEMBENIS112910.pdf
> 
> My LO had her vaccine only last week.....I know its rare but i still think its good if we are all informed about deaths from vaccines as well as the deaths from illnesses they help prevent

It is rare, and 



> Although the record shows that Elias may have suffered from other conditions, unrelated to vaccination, that increased his risk of developing epilepsy, Respondent
> 3
> has not shown that those conditions were at work here. In essence, Respondents argument is that the vaccination did not cause the epilepsy because, based on the statistics, it is more likely that Eliass epilepsy was caused by a congenital condition than by a vaccine reaction.

Basically if you read the whole article, Elias had what was beleived to be a genetic disorder, and the "respondant" (health department) reckons that played a part in his reaction to the vaccine. 

I believe normally there is some background, sometimes unknown problem that can cause a reaction with certain vaccines, sadly most of these problems are unknown until its too late.


----------



## NaturalMomma

My oldest has been vaccinated up to 18 months. After each vaccine he would get hives, fevers, and eventually seizures. He has ADHD and the vaccines make that worse. We decided to stop giving him vaccines once the seizures started and our Pediatrician agrees with us. ds2 is not vaccinated at all because of those reasons, and again, our Pediatrician agrees with us.


----------



## Justagirlxx

NaturalMomma said:


> My oldest has been vaccinated up to 18 months. After each vaccine he would get hives, fevers, and eventually seizures. He has ADHD and the vaccines make that worse. We decided to stop giving him vaccines once the seizures started and our Pediatrician agrees with us. ds2 is not vaccinated at all because of those reasons, and again, our Pediatrician agrees with us.

So sorry about your DS. Your story and many I've read like it are the main reason I'm not vaccinating at all. x


----------



## Nimyra

Just wanted to say, we had my LO's 4 month check up this week and had a chat with the Doc about delaying vaccinations and she said that she had no problem with our decision and agreed that LO is currently at very low risk of catching any the diseases she'd be vaccinated against. 

I was nervous about our appointment, and am really happy now that our doctor is so understanding. She also didn't give us a hard time about cosleeping, BLW or any of our other parenting decisions. woo!


----------



## IvyBaby

Nimyra said:


> Just wanted to say, we had my LO's 4 month check up this week and had a chat with the Doc about delaying vaccinations and she said that she had no problem with our decision and agreed that LO is currently at very low risk of catching any the diseases she'd be vaccinated against.
> 
> I was nervous about our appointment, and am really happy now that our doctor is so understanding. She also didn't give us a hard time about cosleeping, BLW or any of our other parenting decisions. woo!

:thumbup: Until when are going to delay it?


----------



## Nimyra

I haven't decided yet. I think until I think the benefits outweigh the risks (perhaps until she goes to school or is otherwise at greater risk of exposure). This in an ongoing discussion I'm having with my OH.


----------



## IvyBaby

Mmmm, must be confusing weighing out all the pros and cons.. Good luck!!


----------



## ShanandBoc

^sure is...i wish it was a decision we didnt have to make.....im dreading my LO's next lot, wish it only had to be done once when they are babies :(


----------



## IvyBaby

I still haven't taken Lexi for her third lot.. initially intended to just space them out, then we were abroad, then we had a flu.. and she is already 9+ months. Probably makes no sense to do them now.


----------



## 53xym0m

Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.


----------



## sept2010

53xym0m said:


> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.

Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness... 

My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19... 

Wats the point in that?


----------



## 53xym0m

sept2010 said:


> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.
> 
> Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness...
> 
> My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19...
> 
> Wats the point in that?Click to expand...

Well your cousin may just be one of the unfortunate ones, why don't you think it could of been a lot more worse if she hadn't had her imms? :wacko:


https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs288/en/index.html


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## hekate

53xym0m said:


> sept2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.
> 
> Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness...
> 
> My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19...
> 
> Wats the point in that?Click to expand...
> 
> Well your cousin may just be one of the unfortunate ones, *why don't you think it could of been a lot more worse if she hadn't had her imms?* :wacko:
> 
> 
> https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs288/en/index.htmlClick to expand...

actually there is evidence that people who are vaccinated and still get the illness are often suffering from a *more* severe form of the disease...
for example vaccinated people can get atypical measles syndrome, which is often more severe, lasts up to 3 month, and causes encephalitis at a higher rate than natural measles


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## ttc_lolly

53xym0m said:


> sept2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.
> 
> Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness...
> 
> My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19...
> 
> Wats the point in that?Click to expand...
> 
> *Well your cousin may just be one of the unfortunate ones*, why don't you think it could of been a lot more worse if she hadn't had her imms? :wacko:
> 
> 
> https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs288/en/index.htmlClick to expand...

really helpful!!!


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## bubbles123

ttc_lolly said:


> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sept2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.
> 
> Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness...
> 
> My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19...
> 
> Wats the point in that?Click to expand...
> 
> *Well your cousin may just be one of the unfortunate ones*, why don't you think it could of been a lot more worse if she hadn't had her imms? :wacko:
> 
> 
> https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs288/en/index.htmlClick to expand...
> 
> really helpful!!!Click to expand...

What I find weird is that many people agree strongly with the WHO guidelines about breast feeding for 2 years and not weaning before 6 months (and I'm not criticising these guidelines) but then don't believe WHO when they say about the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. You would think WHO will have done their research on this one.


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## Chantibug

Nimyra said:


> I'm delaying some of my LO's vaccines and declining a couple (like rotovirus - this virus just causes diarrhea and almost never leads to serious complications in breastfed infants). My reasons are that I think the US has gone insane with their current vaccine requirements (3 times as many as I had when I was a kid) and some of them really aren't necessary until older (like hep B which is a sexually transmitted disease). I also worry less about the possible negative consequences if my LO is older since her liver and immune system will be better developed. Since my LO had some liver issues, I think this is a reasonable compromise. I won't have my LO in nursery or school until vaccinated, so I don't think she'll be at risk and we plan on extended breastfeeding. My husband and I am also both current on all my vaccines so there isn't a risk of us bringing home an illness to my LO.
> 
> I have an autistic cousin who I believe was affected by the MMR vaccine (he actually won a legal suit so the evidence is very strong in his case). I believe my family is genetically predisposed to autism so I'm cautious. I *am* going to have LO get that one, but not at 12 months like they currently are doing. I am going to delay until she starts school.

I agree about all the vaccines in the US now! I dont do the rotovirus for my kids, but i do the chicken pox even though i never had a vac. for it.. about hep b,. though, if your kids are in daycare it's not a bad idea, as it is not only sexually transmitted.. 
"Hepatitis B spreads by contact with an infected person's blood, semen or other body fluid. An infected woman can give hepatitis B to her baby at birth."https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/hepatitisb.html.. I just worry about biting and slobbering in daycares lol..


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## Justagirlxx

bubbles123 said:


> ttc_lolly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sept2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.
> 
> Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness...
> 
> My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19...
> 
> Wats the point in that?Click to expand...
> 
> *Well your cousin may just be one of the unfortunate ones*, why don't you think it could of been a lot more worse if she hadn't had her imms? :wacko:
> 
> 
> https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs288/en/index.htmlClick to expand...
> 
> really helpful!!!Click to expand...
> 
> What I find weird is that many people agree strongly with the WHO guidelines about breast feeding for 2 years and not weaning before 6 months (and I'm not criticising these guidelines) but then don't believe WHO when they say about the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. You would think WHO will have done their research on this one.Click to expand...


I don't see how that is weird at all. Breastfeeding and vaccinating are two completely different things. Vaccines come with a whole list of adverse reactions, breastfeeding comes with none.


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## Justagirlxx

53xym0m said:


> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.

Yeah this _would be_ common sense if vaccinations themselves never caused people to fall ill.


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## Aidan's Mummy

sept2010 said:


> 53xym0m said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations are done on the common-sense principal that it is better to keep people from falling ill than to treat them once they are ill.
> 
> Its interesting to kno that 50 to 85% of vaccines arent successful in preventin illness...
> 
> My cousin was vaccinated against tb but stil caught it at age of 19...
> 
> Wats the point in that?Click to expand...

Vaccinations do not prevent the disease. They lessen the impact of the disease. My friends little boy contracted measles and he did not have the vaccination. He ended up in intensive Another child came in with measles not so long ago but had had the vaccination. They were unwell but didn't end up fighting for their lives in intensive care, they made a full recovery. Unfortuatly my friends little boy wasn't so lucky and may now have additional needs due to his brain being starved of oxygen. Vaccinations help prevent that happening x


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## AppleBlossom

^ wss. Vaccinations don't prevent disease, they just lower the risks significantly


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## PepsiChic

Aidan's Mummy said:


> Vaccinations do not prevent the disease. They lessen the impact of the disease. My friends little boy contracted measles and he did not have the vaccination. He ended up in intensive Another child came in with measles not so long ago but had had the vaccination. They were unwell but didn't end up fighting for their lives in intensive care, they made a full recovery. Unfortuatly my friends little boy wasn't so lucky and may now have additional needs due to his brain being starved of oxygen. Vaccinations help prevent that happening x

im so sorry to hear of your friends little boy :hugs:

I would never forgive myself for not doing what *i *believe is the safest thing for *my* child. That is why i have him vaccinated


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## Youngling

PepsiChic said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Vaccinations do not prevent the disease. They lessen the impact of the disease. My friends little boy contracted measles and he did not have the vaccination. He ended up in intensive Another child came in with measles not so long ago but had had the vaccination. They were unwell but didn't end up fighting for their lives in intensive care, they made a full recovery. Unfortuatly my friends little boy wasn't so lucky and may now have additional needs due to his brain being starved of oxygen. Vaccinations help prevent that happening x
> 
> im so sorry to hear of your friends little boy :hugs:
> 
> *I would never forgive myself for not doing what i believe is the safest thing for my child. That is why i have him vaccinated*Click to expand...



Agreed :thumbup:

And Aidens Mummy im sorry to hear about ur friends little boy
x


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## Sarah10

I decided to vaccinate Jayden, of course there is risks. There is risks with everything you do day to day, like crossing the road, being in a car, you can get run over/crash etc. I would never forgive myself if i hadn't of got him vaccined and he contracted an awful disease.


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## xemmax

PepsiChic said:


> I would never forgive myself for not doing what *i *believe is the safest thing for *my* child. That is why i have him vaccinated

that's the perfect explanation for every mother's decision, whatever they decide, whether to vaccinate or not. :thumbup:


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## PepsiChic

xemmax said:


> PepsiChic said:
> 
> 
> I would never forgive myself for not doing what *i *believe is the safest thing for *my* child. That is why i have him vaccinated
> 
> that's the perfect explanation for every mother's decision, whatever they decide, whether to vaccinate or not. :thumbup:Click to expand...

thankyou! thats exactly 110% why i said it and bolded the words I and MY, because its important for every parent to do what they feel is safe and best for their child.

in the end some of us might not agree with the way eachother choose to parent and the things we decide for our children for whatever reason, but we are all parents and *we all ultimately have the same goal. to love, provide and keep safe our most precious gifts.*


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## Justagirlxx

I could never forgive myself if my son ended up brain damaged or paralyzed from a vaccine.


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## Aidan's Mummy

My friend is the opposite. She beats her self up every day because her son will defiantly have some sort of brain damage which will mean he will have additional needs. He just lays there now where as before he was so lively and chatty. :( Measles did that to him. I tell my friend not to blame her self but she keeps on saying what if :nope: so I dont think I could forgive myself if that was aidan and I hadn't given him the vaccine. Because most children with the vaccine that do contract measles etc don't seem to have it in the severity of un vaccinated children x


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## Sarah10

Aidan's Mummy said:


> My friend is the opposite. She beats her self up every day because her son will defiantly have some sort of brain damage which will mean he will have additional needs. He just lays there now where as before he was so lively and chatty. :( Measles did that to him. I tell my friend not to blame her self but she keeps on saying what if :nope: so I dont think I could forgive myself if that was aidan and I hadn't given him the vaccine. Because most children with the vaccine that do contract measles etc don't seem to have it in the severity of un vaccinated children x

Thats terrible :cry: thats why i'm glad i had my son vaccinated xx


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## vaniilla

I think we are very lucky in this country in respect to vaccinations, there are many countries in Europe let alone the rest of the world where parents have to face a double edged sword, whereby proper hygiene procedures aren't followed and people end up catching all sorts because their needle wasn't sterilized properly when they were vaccinated, I have a few close friends that suffered as a result of this and its not nice, one has a horrible scar on her arm from it becoming infecting, she said the person doing it didn't even have a clue what she was doing :dohh: 

I'm not writing to this to be patronizing to anyone so I really hope it doesn't come across that way I'm just trying to raise awareness that some people have to worry about what would happen if they did or if they didn't for worse reasons. 

there are a lot of studies done on vaccines and not all of it will be positive, its impossible to not have flaws or risks in anything especially as far as medicine goes, people are given the risks when having an epi, eye laser treatment etc and people still go through with it, let alone something which could potentially save your life :flower:


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## Aidan's Mummy

Sarah10 said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> My friend is the opposite. She beats her self up every day because her son will defiantly have some sort of brain damage which will mean he will have additional needs. He just lays there now where as before he was so lively and chatty. :( Measles did that to him. I tell my friend not to blame her self but she keeps on saying what if :nope: so I dont think I could forgive myself if that was aidan and I hadn't given him the vaccine. Because most children with the vaccine that do contract measles etc don't seem to have it in the severity of un vaccinated children x
> 
> Thats terrible :cry: thats why i'm glad i had my son vaccinated xxClick to expand...

:hugs: x


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## xemmax

Aidan's Mummy said:


> My friend is the opposite. She beats her self up every day because her son will defiantly have some sort of brain damage which will mean he will have additional needs. He just lays there now where as before he was so lively and chatty. :( Measles did that to him. I tell my friend not to blame her self but she keeps on saying what if :nope: so I dont think I could forgive myself if that was aidan and I hadn't given him the vaccine. Because most children with the vaccine that do contract measles etc don't seem to have it in the severity of un vaccinated children x

that's so sad, i really feel for your friend.

i just wonder what the chances are of having such a terrible reaction to measles, and what the chances are of having a serious adverse reaction to the measles vaccine. i'd be interested to see how they compare. 

no doubt there are many parents out there who beat themselves up everyday because their child was 'damaged' by a vaccine.

it's one of the hardest decisions a parent has to make.. as nobody knows how a child will react to a vaccine or to an illness.


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## Aidan's Mummy

It is a very hard descion even I took ages to decided on the MMR. With comparison there was a child in with measles who had had the vaccine and they didn't need intensive care treatment where as my friends little man did. What I have been taught during my training is the vaccine can lessen the impact of the disease as there is already anti-bodies there to combat the illness whereas an un-vaccinated child would need to start building up that immunity whilst fighting the infection therefore putting more strain on the immune system. Increasing the use of medical intervention I.e. Intensive care etc. But it is a descion I am sure many mums agonise over. I don't think any choice is 'wrong' in a sense as the parents feel they are doing what's best for their individual child. Although I personally feel that the advantages of being vaccinated outweigh any risk there may be :) x


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