# Supernatural Childbirth - Very offensive, read at own risk...



## Virginia

I was going to just delete this, but then of course, it would look like I was a horrible monster and must have said something completely offensive and hurtful because of the wonderful comments people have chosen to leave.



Has anyone else read this book? It's by Jackie Minze. I think it's actually more common in audio form, and it's an older book, back from like '95, with the audio being even older. My mother got it for me at a tag sale and I read it last night. It's about using God's promises to man, and faith in those promises to get through labor quickly, with no complications, and painlessly - without drugs or epidural. It also talks about conception and how God promises none of his children will be barren. The couple who wrote the book was told that they would never have children, and they have 4. It's definitely an interesting book, and it makes me a little excited about childbirth instead of fearing it. Let me know if anyone else has read it, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?


----------



## secretbaby

One of my school friend can't have due to cancer treatment at 15. My best friend adopted children as she went through the menopause at 27. Another school friend has had several miscarraiges and many failed IVF attempts. These are just a couple of the people who I know who are childless through infertility - so I find the idea that 'no one is barren' completely stupid. I see it as you are blessed if you are able to have children naturally but not everyone is that lucky.

But my friend is a hypnobirthing teacher and whole heartedly believes that childbirth does not have to be painful and be feared, so there are many people and groups who believe that.


----------



## mightyspu

secretbaby said:


> One of my school friend can't have due to cancer treatment at 15. My best friend adopted children as she went through the menopause at 27. Another school friend has had several miscarraiges and many failed IVF attempts. These are just a couple of the people who I know who are childless through infertility - so I find the idea that 'no one is barren' completely stupid. I see it as you are blessed if you are able to have children naturally but not everyone is that lucky.
> 
> But my friend is a hypnobirthing teacher and whole heartedly believes that childbirth does not have to be painful and be feared, so there are many people and groups who believe that.

Agreed, I imagine that book would be a slap in the face for some! How about girl's born with Turner's syndrome? they are infertile as part of their condition.

I am glad that this book has given you some confidence with labour and the birth process, but I doubt it is useful for people who are actually infertile.


----------



## Virginia

mightyspu said:


> secretbaby said:
> 
> 
> One of my school friend can't have due to cancer treatment at 15. My best friend adopted children as she went through the menopause at 27. Another school friend has had several miscarraiges and many failed IVF attempts. These are just a couple of the people who I know who are childless through infertility - so I find the idea that 'no one is barren' completely stupid. I see it as you are blessed if you are able to have children naturally but not everyone is that lucky.
> 
> But my friend is a hypnobirthing teacher and whole heartedly believes that childbirth does not have to be painful and be feared, so there are many people and groups who believe that.
> 
> Agreed, I imagine that book would be a slap in the face for some! How about girl's born with Turner's syndrome? they are infertile as part of their condition.
> 
> I am glad that this book has given you some confidence with labour and the birth process, but I doubt it is useful for people who are actually infertile.Click to expand...

It's all about faith. If you don't believe in God's Word, then of course you wouldn't reap His blessings. Nothing is impossible though God. Simple as that. I saw a woman ridden with cancer from head to toe...given only weeks to live. Doctors waited months and months for her to die, and she simply told them that God is healing her and not to worry. A year later, she is miraculously cancer free. ANYTHING is possible through God. If you are going to tell me that my faith is a "slap in the face" to some people, or "stupid", then just don't comment. You don't have to believe in my faith, but I am sure someone out there will see this, get the book, and have the impossible happen...

Besides, a little girl (perfectly normal) in my church was born of a mother that has Turner's syndrome. Anything is possible.


----------



## mightyspu

I never said your faith was a slap in the face or stupid. You have no right to judge me and you have no right to assume I have no faith myself.


----------



## Wobbles

Neither ladies said your faith is a slap in the face or stupid. They referred the book not YOU or the faith as whole. 

Nobody was rude about your faith at all just a mild opinion/input so please keep it friendly without putting words into peoples mouths.

:D


----------



## lozzy21

I belive in god but from the sounds of it some of the things in that book are a load of waffle. My best friend went through the menapause at 19. She is unable to have children of her own.

If anything is possible through god then why did my grandad die of a heart attack at the age of 43. He belived in god, went to church every week and was a good man?


----------



## Drazic<3

People are infertile, it is a fact, horrible as it is. Faith or no faith.


----------



## moochacha

I'd probably have to read the book before I can sincerely give my interpretation on it. Glad it's giving you lots of faith and confidence in childbirth. :coolio:


----------



## DragonMummy

Good to know that the reason I am not pregnant is because I don't go to church....


----------



## moochacha

DragonMummy said:


> Good to know that the reason I am not pregnant is because I don't go to church....

Awww loving the new avatar picture!!! Sorry a little off topic!


----------



## Virginia

DragonMummy said:


> Good to know that the reason I am not pregnant is because I don't go to church....

Seriously? When did I say that? Ya know what? I thought we were all adults here, but apparently, I can't create a topic without someone getting offended by it and taking things the wrong way. I've been a member here for over a year and I thought this place was different...I guess I was wrong. I obviously don't belong here, and it was nice while it lasted...I'll just leave everyone alone now.


----------



## opticalillus5

Virginia said:


> DragonMummy said:
> 
> 
> Good to know that the reason I am not pregnant is because I don't go to church....
> 
> Seriously? When did I say that? Ya know what? I thought we were all adults here, but apparently, I can't create a topic without someone getting offended by it and taking things the wrong way. I've been a member here for over a year and I thought this place was different...I guess I was wrong. I obviously don't belong here, and it was nice while it lasted...I'll just leave everyone alone now.Click to expand...

Aww honey... You don't need to leave... It's just that infertility is bound to be a very sensitive topic because it hurts so much when you're TTC. 

I think it's great that your faith is so strong. I too believe in God's will, and that he blesses us with life... but I can see how that might be hard for people TTC (i.e. Why not us?). 

I don't think anyone's comments are aimed at you, just religion in general. Don't take it so hard :flower:


----------



## Justagirlxx

Its so sad to me that this thread has to be labeled as offensive just because it mentions God and infertility. The OP obviously meant for it to be uplifting and encouraging, as she said the couple was told they couldn't conceive but now through their faith and trust in God have 4 children.


----------



## lozzy21

Virginia said:


> It's about using God's promises to man, and faith in those promises to get through labor quickly, with no complications, and painlessly - without drugs or epidural. It also talks about conception and how God promises none of his children will be barren.


That is the part that some people find ofensive


----------



## lozzy21

[/QUOTE]

It's all about faith. If you don't believe in God's Word, then of course you wouldn't reap His blessings. Nothing is impossible though God. Simple as that. 
[/QUOTE]

And this


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Having faith and being barren as you call it has nothing to do with faith. Some women cannothave children simple as. Some parts like lolly pointed out are rather offensive as it's basically saying if you don't belive in god then you won't reap his benifits i.e. Pregnancy. Bascially insuntinuating it's their fault. Thats how I read it anyway. May just be me reading it wrong :shrug:
xx


----------



## mightyspu

I was going to step away from this thread, but I will say one last thing. I think the OP re-labelled the thread, no one else, so it is only her that has decided to react that way. I doubt that the mods would rename a thread, if it really was that offensive, they would remove it. And the mods are the only people who could rename a thread.

I personally did not find the OP's first post offensive, it is her right to her own opinion and I respect both her faith and her opinion. She merely asked for opinions on this book, and I gave mine, at which point she decided I was trashing her faith. That I found offensive. I only wanted to point out how other people _might_ feel and the OP was unable to read that in my post.

I am sorry she feels the need to leave the forum, but at the end of the day she asked for opinions and I gave mine, but it seems it was not the opinion she wanted to hear.

I wish you all well and every luck in your pregnancies.


----------



## aob1013

I think it is a load of rubbish tbh, and an insult to people that can't have children through no fault of their own - not whether they believe in god or not :roll:


----------



## Steph63

aob1013 said:


> I think it is a load of rubbish tbh, and an insult to people that can't have children through no fault of their own - not whether they believe in god or not :roll:

My thoughts exactly.


----------



## DragonMummy

lozzy21 said:


> It's all about faith. If you don't believe in God's Word, then of course you wouldn't reap His blessings. Nothing is impossible though God. Simple as that.
> 
> And thisClick to expand...

That's exactly it, thanks Loz. Thanks what got my back up. I have an awful lot of respect for any religeon - I was brought up Catholic myself. But saying that you won't be "blessed" because you don't believe was tantamount to bigotry. I don't believe therefore I won't conceive. Like I am undeserving. I thought God loved every one of us, regardless of faith?


----------



## lozzy21

DragonMummy said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all about faith. If you don't believe in God's Word, then of course you wouldn't reap His blessings. Nothing is impossible though God. Simple as that.
> 
> And thisClick to expand...
> 
> That's exactly it, thanks Loz. Thanks what got my back up. I have an awful lot of respect for any religeon - I was brought up Catholic myself. But saying that you won't be "blessed" because you don't believe was tantamount to bigotry. I don't believe therefore I won't conceive. Like I am undeserving. I thought God loved every one of us, regardless of faith?Click to expand...

Thats what got mine up too.


----------



## Connah'sMommy

I just replied to a thread in general chat about some threads upsetting people. I put that if something offends me id rather keep it to myself rather than cause a row...but this just about puts the cherry on the cake!

Im not questioning some peoples faith but there are women on here who are in actual fact infertile and its not because the dont worship some god or have faith! 

I know that my cousin who had cancer and for many reasons due to this is now infertile,could pray to god every day and night and still wouldnt get pregnant(bless her)

Why anyone would want to post this in a pregnancy forum is beyond me,there may be alot of very upset women on here now who feel they cant venture into these sections cos they are scared what rubbish they might find!

Sorry it was a rant and i never do this but i think its stupid to post such a thing in here


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

I agree connahs mummy. The OP knew it was offensive but still chose to post it. Why? To get a reaction. This thread will have hurt alot of womens feelings which is many cases they have been through enought hurt
xx


----------



## LeaArr

*sigh* I know this wasn't the OP's original purpose for this post, but it hurts me to think that people believe that me being agnostic is the reason for my infertility. That's all I have to say about that.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

LeaArr said:


> *sigh* I know this wasn't the OP's original purpose for this post, but it hurts me to think that people believe that me being agnostic is the reason for my infertility. That's all I have to say about that.

:hugs:
xx


----------



## Blah11

Sounds like a book ready for the bonfire :)


----------



## Connah'sMommy

Blah11 said:


> Sounds like a book ready for the bonfire :)

:thumbup:


----------



## Farie

As someone who has suffered infertility for nearly 3 years and is now very lucky (I have stepped away from the word 'blessed'!) to be pregnant I think some of the reactions are a little unnecessary, OP was simply stating the books ideals and saying it helped her, her opinions based on her faith.

While I do not agree religion (or lack of in my case!) has anything to do with infertility I know many people who do feel that way, are they wrong, well no, as it is their opinion. Do I agree, hell no!

Do I take there opinions to heart and get offended, no, as I don't think there is any point, fertility, or the lack thereof is an unfair, barbaric lottery - to me its a simple as that, if faith made you fertile there would be a lot more people attending church and a lot less people attending fertility clinics!
Since fertility clinics number are rising it would seen that for conception, they are the place to be!

Just MHO .. no point in shooting people down in flames just for their views, however much we may disagree, if it works for them ....


----------



## vinteenage

Virginia said:


> Has anyone else read this book? It's by Jackie Minze. I think it's actually more common in audio form, and it's an older book, back from like '95, with the audio being even older. My mother got it for me at a tag sale and I read it last night.* It's about using God's promises to man, and faith in those promises to get through labor quickly, with no complications, and painlessly - without drugs or epidural. It also talks about conception and how God promises none of his children will be barren. *The couple who wrote the book was told that they would never have children, and they have 4. It's definitely an interesting book, and it makes me a little excited about childbirth instead of fearing it. Let me know if anyone else has read it, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

This is interesting to me. In Catholic faith, at least, Adam and Eve's original sin made of all of this go away. Their sin is why birth now hurts, why not everyone can conceive, and why pregnancies go awry. It was one of the punishments towards man for their mistake.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

No one was shot down in flames we stated we disagreed with her view which is bound to happen

I also just have a huge dislike for the word barren. It just find it a very nice word tbh
xx


----------



## xxxjacxxx

Play nice now girlies:flower:


----------



## indy and lara

Och religion brings some people comfort but it never has me. Delighted to know that the OP sees the pregnancy complications which led to my son being stillborn were somehow my fault due to my lack of faith. 

Thankfully I am a long way down the bereavement journey but would not like someone who is recently bereaved, due to pg complications, to read this.


----------



## Lydiarose

Virginia said:


> mightyspu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> secretbaby said:
> 
> 
> One of my school friend can't have due to cancer treatment at 15. My best friend adopted children as she went through the menopause at 27. Another school friend has had several miscarraiges and many failed IVF attempts. These are just a couple of the people who I know who are childless through infertility - so I find the idea that 'no one is barren' completely stupid. I see it as you are blessed if you are able to have children naturally but not everyone is that lucky.
> 
> But my friend is a hypnobirthing teacher and whole heartedly believes that childbirth does not have to be painful and be feared, so there are many people and groups who believe that.
> 
> Agreed, I imagine that book would be a slap in the face for some! How about girl's born with Turner's syndrome? they are infertile as part of their condition.
> 
> I am glad that this book has given you some confidence with labour and the birth process, but I doubt it is useful for people who are actually infertile.Click to expand...
> 
> It's all about faith. If you don't believe in God's Word, then of course you wouldn't reap His blessings. Nothing is impossible though God. Simple as that. I saw a woman ridden with cancer from head to toe...given only weeks to live. Doctors waited months and months for her to die, and she simply told them that God is healing her and not to worry. A year later, she is miraculously cancer free. ANYTHING is possible through God. If you are going to tell me that my faith is a "slap in the face" to some people, or "stupid", then just don't comment. You don't have to believe in my faith, but I am sure someone out there will see this, get the book, and have the impossible happen...
> 
> Besides, a little girl (perfectly normal) in my church was born of a mother that has Turner's syndrome. Anything is possible.Click to expand...



Im sorry but what aloud of crap,
i do belive in god but things like these "miraculous healing" storys are just awful and quite offensive my mom had breast cancer and survived and i do think praying helped but i think it was more to do with the treatment!


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

I agree with blah11 :thumbup:


----------



## Lydiarose

indy and lara said:


> Och religion brings some people comfort but it never has me. Delighted to know that the OP sees the pregnancy complications which led to my son being stillborn were somehow my fault due to my lack of faith.
> 
> Thankfully I am a long way down the bereavement journey but would not like someone who is recently bereaved, due to pg complications, to read this.

Also i totally agree with this,
I do belive in god my dad is catholic and i have always had some some faith however what is this religion that belives people cant concieve because they dont have a strong faith? how absolutly ridiculous and down right nasty,
Religions not supposed to be about punishment ever heard of the sayings "hate the sin not the sinner" and "god loves everyone pure and simply with never any vengence"

What a horrible thread gosh if i ever saw this so called book id burn it no wonder it was at a car boot sale!


----------



## moochacha

Ah this is a bit of a touchie subject! I suffer from secondary infertility and its really painful so I hope all the women who are experiencing infertility on this thread find some peace in their heart and get that bfp!!! Not only the bfp as in my cause I have had multiple miscarriages and also had a still born so I hope they bring home a healthy baby. Everyone deserves the right to have children regardless of faith but thanks to medicine this has made is possible for many couples! I have to say at the end of the day my faith is in the hands of my husbands sperm, my awesome follicles, our sexy time :happydance: and a packet of Clomid!


----------



## Blah11

I think its good to have faith in SOMETHING. It doesn't have to be god or whatever but its nice to have faith anyway. However, I don't think it's right to say 'if you dont believe in X you wont be happy' :\ That's ridiculous. Faith is supposed to be a positive thing, it's ashame books like this turn it into a negative.


----------



## trumpetbum

I haven't read the book but have seen similair thoughts in literature and online. It's very easy when you have something, however long awaited, to be smug about it and insist that god will provide if only you believe hard enough. It's also a very simple thing to say to someone who doesn't that they must try harder, pray harder, join the right denomination etc and they will recieve. It's one thing to believe in your heart that god will provide, another entirely to use this belief as a stick to beat others with. Jmho. Many, many women are now able to concieve through medical and scientific advances. Is this because the world has become so much more worthy of gods gifts???
I do believe firmly that prayer/meditation/faith can work wonders, but I can't believe that god punishes random people of faith or without faith based on his assessment of their commitment or prayer.


----------



## laura.x.x

So there must be no infertile people that believe in god?? find that hard to believe.


----------



## angelstardust

I have read it. 

While I agree that Faith can get you through childbirth with almost no pain or no pain, I strongly disagree with the idea that you can think yourself fertile. 

With childbirth, the faith is the same as hypnobirthing. Having a strong belief that you will feel no pain will help you feel no pain. 

As for fertility... My SIL ended up in hospital with a MASSIVE infection of both ovaries due to her and BIL belief that God would grant them a child if He decided it was to be. 8 years of trying and never conceiving, 8 years of ignoring the often agonising pain around ovulation because their Minister told them not to see a doctor because God would provide. She ended up on life support in a hospital 250miles away from home when she was on holiday. It would have picked up within a few weeks of seeing a doctor about their fertility problems. 

Infertility is a biological problem, often with no known cause. It is not caused by a lack of faith or because of God punishing you. I find it crass, as if in some way you are causing it yourself because you do not beleive the right thing?


----------



## strikslow

I have been searching all the forums for this thread for the last 2 hours. I am virginia's husband and I am extremely ticked right now. she had NO bad intentions when she posted this thread, she just wanted to know if any other pregnant woman have read this book she got from her mom. nobody had to answer. she just wanted to know who had read it and what they thought of it. its obvious nobody here has read it, so WHY be so harsh to my wife? she's been moping around the house for the last 3 days almost in tears because she feels like the one thing she actually likes to do on the internet has betrayed her. she refuses to go back on the computer, especially to this site because she is afraid of the ridicule. we KNOW there are infertile men and women, and God lets bad things happen to good people, He doesn't care what your faith is, He still loves you. she wasn't saying that if you dont believe in Him than you won't have kids. she was TRYING to give PREGNANT women a book that they could read if interested - thats why she put it in a pregnant thread instead of a thread of women trying to get pregnant. she was explaining what the book was about in her post and she wasn't trying to offend anyone or "get a reaction" as some people are saying. shes very emotional right now and taking the things you've said to her personally. you might not mean it personally, but thats how shes taking it. she might be overreacting, and ive told her to just find somewhere else, but she says this is the only "good" one out there that she could find. I am just irate to see my wife like this. if you dont like a post or find it offensive, then just leave. there is no reason at all to make people feel bad. she was asking for opinions on the BOOK if you have read it, not on your opinion of her or her beliefs or your opinions of what you think the book would be about. i know this is pointless because none of you really care if you loose a fellow member, especially one you think so poorly of, but i just wanted you to know that what you say on the internet is having a real affect on my wife. you might want to think about other's feelings next time and dont assume everyone is out to offend or get a negative reaction...:growlmad:


----------



## aob1013

This is a public forum, so you'll always get opinions on both sides of the fence i'm afraid :)


----------



## AppleBlossom

To me, faith doesn't even come into it. People can be infertile regardless of whether they believe in God or not


----------



## xxxjacxxx

The title of the thread alone screams 'attention' to me.

I'm sorry but to post such a controversial subject such as this is going to attract differences in opinions. Unfortunately we cannot bound people to agree with others 'to keep the peace' as such.

I'm sorry your wife is upset but please understand she posted this knowing it was an offensive subject to some.:flower:

Thread locked pending admin view.


----------

