# One Born>?



## Bournefree

I know there will prob be lots of other threads buzzing on Babyandbump discussing tonights first episode of the second series of One Born Every Minute on channel 4 (uk) - however, I wanted to know, as natural mums, how do you feel about it and will you be watch it?

I watched the first series, but that was after my DD was born - I'm perhaps glad that I didn't watch it before hand. Reason is - I end up either tutting, or getting quite vocal at the tv. Along the lines of "oh, no, come on girl you can do it you don't need the drip or epidural, you were doing fine!" "get off your back!" "I can see where this one is going - theatre!" "she has been totally left, is scared, and doesn't know what is going on!".. and many others!

So I'm going to be watching it - but have been banned to the bedroom by OH!

I tried to write to the programme a couple of times and emplore them to show more natural births and also to show a homebirth - as they are not showing all the availiable birth choices for women. I even offered when I found out I was pregnant this time round for them to come to my birth (though, july is going to be a bit late for them! 

So, how does it make you feel? :shrug:
If you are not in the UK you can watch it tomorrow at www.channel4.com
xXx


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## chuck

I struggle to watch these programs now after my experience in hospital I'm either angry or jealous.


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## Mervs Mum

Good question! 

I didnt bother watching it at Christmas because I too just end up growling at the telly!! :lol: I probably wont bother watching for the same reasons. Unfortunately, a calm, quiet birth with no drama isnt (apparently) very entertaining to the general public. It's a shame because it perpetuates the myth that child birth is always a medical drama with screaming women who cant cope and NEED the hospitals to save them.......

Actually....mind made up....I am DEFINITELY not watching!! :rofl:


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## JenStar1976

I can't help but watch I'm afraid! Yes, I will be shouting at the midwives and the mothers telling them that they're doing it all wrong too!!! xx


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## JenStar1976

Should have added, that no matter how many births I watch on tv and no matter how they all get born, I always cry! xx


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## Bournefree

Oh yes me too - at that moment when baby arrives is just magic!!
xxx


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## Bournefree

Well it's all over, and it has totally confirmed that homebirth is for me - Our birth was so removed from these ladies' experiences.

How stressful must it be to hear another labouring women screaming? I'm not saying that everyone should be as quiet as a mouse - but if the walls are thin, it would be very scary.. which couldn't possibly help.
And we haven't seen any births (yet) in anyother positions others than laying on the bed sitting on bums. Why isn't a change of position mentioned? Arhhhh!!
I'm feeling sad for these mummies.

Will I be watching next week?
Yes you bet I will!


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## kelzyboo

What gets me is they never got up off the bed and moved around or changed positions as someone else said, i don't know about anyone else but i want to move around and find the right position for me not be tied to a bed on my back, thats how i was with DD and it was hell, not doing that again!!

I have to have my baby in hospital due to complications but i still want it done my way or no way, unless theres an emergancy in which case all i care about is a healthy baby! I also will probably have to be induced but i hope i don't have to be on a drip and stay in the bed...this is my worst nightmare xx


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## pimento1979

This wasn't pleasant watching, and am so glad we are planning a homebirth. Still, as a first-time mum, not really knowing what to expect, it was a bit scary... I've been re-assured that it's not like this "normally" but yikes... Am glad to be having my well-informed hubby and a great doula at my homebirth. I thought the 18-year-old was pretty spectacular though (and apparently she's a BnB member, as they are saying over in Third Trimester).


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## PeanutBean

I watched tonight and for the first time at Christmas. Hadn't heard of it before. Like you Bourne the first thing I thought when I first saw it was why are they on their backs? At Christmas it was a live show and they had a quick tour of a delivery room with a low bed to help with different positions and a birthing ball etc yet every birth I've seen on it has been on those high delivery beds on their backs. At Christmas there was one woman who came in and stood swaying against her husband until she was ready to go when they promptly got her on the bed on her back to deliver. I mean WTF?

But I always cry at every birth. Even if I'm only paying half attention and my back's turned the second that baby comes out I cry like a reflex! :rofl:


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## Anababe

Oh this makes me so sad.. im just watching it now and this girl screaming is scaring me nevermind the other women!! :rofl: I keep shouting.. get off the bed!! :dohh: 

I was quite loud with my first labour, but more from panic, i never expected that much pain and i was holding my breath through contractions trying to stop them :dohh: But no way could i have stayed on the bed.. :shock: It hurt so much more!

My second was much better once id figured out breathing helps haha Im so glad to be planning a home birth this time!


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## meg79

A first-time mum here and with a planned homebirth - after tonights episode I'm so bloody glad I made this decision!! Although I haven't had the experience yet, I found myself souting at the telly for that woman to move off her back... and to shut up lol!! (anyone notice the midwife smilling to herself?!) 

Although I don't particularly enjoy watching that programme, I have chosen to watch it, just to remind myself that my labour will be nothing like theirs, but quietly and calmly in a pool in the comfort of my own home (Ooooh I really do hope...)!


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## evewidow

i watched it as i love seeing babies being born haha . 

homebirth for me this time , but not cus of bad experiences or anything in fact really my hopsital births were good.

but i was shouting at them to get off their backs too ..and the screaming lady bless her she didnt handle it very well at all did she . at least at home i wont have that racket in the next room lol


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## chuck

Bournefree said:


> Oh yes me too - at that moment when baby arrives is just magic!!
> xxx

That's my problem I missed out on it all that so I can't watch it. 

I was awake for my CS but alone and had to ask if he was out when I heard crying on the other side of the room :cry::growlmad:


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## BabyBG

Not watching anymore! I agree that they only show the drama. After that woman was effing and blinding I was really put off. Much prefer a Baby Story as it shows all kind of births. Want my first labour to be amazing and calm to will prepare myself in every way to ensure that happens.

Good luck ladies!


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## sugarcube84

im gatecrashing! When i was in labour (in hospital) last march with my first baby, me and my midwife were discussing one born every minute and she said she didnt like the fact that it always seemed to choose complicated births or ones where the woman wasnt coping very well, we both agreed that it probably made for more 'exciting' tv but it didnt truly represent labour.She said that wigan was actaully asked to do a series but turned it down and i joked i could have been a tv star and she said no your coping far too well!!!

I had a lovely hospital birth went in when i was 4cm on a tens machine, started on gas and air at 7cm and gave birth with no problems other than a tear.Both the midwives said they didnt want to see me back as next time i should have a homebirth! I was mobile throughout and never once was strapped down to the bed, that would have been the type of birth that i would have liked to watch on a programme rather than ones which always end happily but are somewhat less straightforward!!


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## Jenniflower

I heard there's a waterbirth on tomorrow if anyone wants to watch. I may try to catch it.


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## summer rain

Hi

Before having my youngest I would have been watching the programme and saying the same as other posters here; however some labours are more painful than others and we don't see the whole story/picture of the ladies on this programme, often they are in labour for considerably longer than the programme presents to us; and they are feeling pretty desperate by the time the cameras are on. Also I realise from having my youngest; that every birth experience is different and may not go according to how you planned it. 

I had a homebirth last time and booked for one this time, however this time where we live was inaccessible due to the snow, we could just about get out ourselves so we had to go to the hospital. In many ways I am glad I did go to the hospital, previously I had progressively faster and easier labours they were only terribly painful right before the pushing stage so I thought this one would be the same, in reality it was the worst one out of four and it was nothing to do with the hospital experience but the fact he was in a non-optimal position. I am glad now we did go to hospital because I don't think I could have handled it at home. He was head down but facing left and at a funny angle, and so I had been having irregular but extremely painful contractions for 48 hours before even going into hospital and I was already feeling extremely worn down. Then when we got there I was staying active but upon being examined I was only 1cm dilated; extremely disheartening considering I felt like I did at 9cm with my others; then things did start to progress far more quickly but the pain was far more intense than with any of my others and the feeling of pressure was much, much worse. I did overdo the gas and air but it did really help me to cope, and I did lie down on my side with my head end of the bed slightly raised; because it was the only position that helped. In the end I was glad I was lying down because he ended up shooting out when the midwife was not in the room (so even though it was a hospital birth; in that sense it was unassisted!). I now would never judge any other lady and how she handles things; even if it leads to further intervention.


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## PeanutBean

Having had a 35hr labour and assisted delivery myself together with a failed epidural I would never judge how a woman handles labour but I will judge how the hospital appear to handle a woman's care. Of course we don't see it all but in some of the episodes I've seen I am certain we've seen enough to judge.


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## Bournefree

Jenniflower said:


> I heard there's a waterbirth on tomorrow if anyone wants to watch. I may try to catch it.

I'm looking forward to seeing the water birth!
I wonder if she will get out for the birth? :shrug: I hope not.
xXx


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## Jenniflower

Bournefree said:


> Jenniflower said:
> 
> 
> I heard there's a waterbirth on tomorrow if anyone wants to watch. I may try to catch it.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing the water birth!
> I wonder if she will get out for the birth? :shrug: I hope not.
> xXxClick to expand...

that's what I was thinking. There was one during the christmas special where she was doing amazing in the water and then the midwife took her out and put her on her back to deliver. I was like wha? :wacko:


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## summer rain

PeanutBean said:


> Having had a 35hr labour and assisted delivery myself together with a failed epidural I would never judge how a woman handles labour but I will judge how the hospital appear to handle a woman's care. Of course we don't see it all but in some of the episodes I've seen I am certain we've seen enough to judge.

In the first series there were at least a couple of women who delivered kneeling or in other positions, the show is heavily edited by the production company, so sometimes there are medical indications for what happens that are not shown, also many of the women insist on lying down and midwives are not allowed to forcibly move women into other positions. Also, occasionally lying down, although not totally flat on one's back, is the best and most comfortable position for some women, especially if they have a tendency to have very fast labours. When I had my homebirth the mws insisted I adopt a very uncomfortable sitting/squatting position on my laminated lounge floor, it didn't make any difference to tears etc and I couldn't get up at the end because my tailbone was killing and I had cramp in my legs. The young 18 year old lady who was on last week is on B n B and she explained on a thread on here how different the reality is to how its potrayed and edited in the final version. No I'm not saying the hospital does things ideally but there is a lot that isn't shown on the programme, the hospital has a birthing centre upstairs and a traditional consultant led unit downstairs, if a woman has been in the birthing centre for hours and is screaming for an epidural and her partner is agreeing, then what can the midwives really do?


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## PeanutBean

Summer I think I said in my first post in this thread that I've not really seen the show before Christmas but was quite shocked by what I have seen since then. For example there was a woman at Christmas who was not on her first birth and had spent the whole labour stood against her OH rocking and having as comfortable as time as one can, then felt the need to push so the MWs got her on to the bed on her back. Maybe some enormously crucial happening was edited out, I don't know, but there weren't any complications and she had the baby in a flash and all was fine so I cannot imagine why she should've been moved on to her back to push.

With the screaming lady on last week's episode I noticed a scene where she tried to lie on her side and whoever was stood by the bed pulled her back on to her back. I don't have any issue about whether or not someone chooses an epidural, there just seems to be a lot of women lying on their backs.

In the main thread in the TV bit someone posted earlier that the cameras are in the unit for people needing additional care which would shed some light on why there are so many births with complications portrayed (aside from the obvious TV sensationalism; and I'm going off what others have said about previous series). It's a real shame if that's the case as it would be much nicer to see some of the birthing centre births too. It'll be ace if there is a water birth tonight.


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## Bournefree

I'm fully aware that it is edited and cut for (I use this loosely, as I don't think it is good-for-women-TV but supposedly ) "good" TV. but these are real women, and real births.. and like PB said.. there wasn't any editing in some of these women who automatically adopt the supine position. 
There is little choice it seems in these ladies minds; There is a bed or a hard plastic covered non-slip concrete floor. Of course you could always get on all fours on the bed, take the pillows to the floor for your knees if you want to use the bed to lean on - but the psychological set-up of the room doesn't allow these options as an initial thought, or a very comfortable looking one. Not even in my imagination!

There is just far too much of the un-natural births, and it doesn't represent the reality in the population.

Filming is done on both the MLU and the Obstetric lead unit. (hence why screaming lady had to transfer to Obst to get her Epi last week.)
xXx


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## chuck

My year 13 girls were talking about the show in class today and how terrified they were of ever having children because it looks so horrible <facepalm>

Trying to speak to them about how what they see there is by no means the be all and end all and a good representation of labour and birth without getting ranty was not easy lol.

I just find it so sad now that there are girls watching these programs and being terrified and they're expectations are of agony and fear.

Its no as if I can even let them know from personal experience that it can be good - all I could do is le them know that from personal experience what they see is often not what s best for the woman but just seemingly accepted practice.

Thankfully the Mum of one of the girls is a MW who also thinks the program is a terrible representation of labour and birth.


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## Mervs Mum

PeanutBean said:


> Having had a 35hr labour and assisted delivery myself together with a failed epidural I would never judge how a woman handles labour but I will judge how the hospital appear to handle a woman's care. Of course we don't see it all but in some of the episodes I've seen I am certain we've seen enough to judge.

Agreed. I think it paints that hospital in a terrible light. If I were due to give birth there and didnt know any better, I'd be shitting myself to be frank.


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## tink23

I've been watching it and DO find myself shouting things at the telly like you... 

"You can do it!" "Why the hell is she lying down?! Let her stand up and walk around!!" e.t.c

I wish they'd show more natural births and water births but I do enjoy watching it all the same...it almost enforces my belief that a home water birth will be a better option for me (this is me talking BEFORE going through the labour process of course!!)


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## Bournefree

chuck said:


> My year 13 girls were talking about the show in class today and how terrified they were of ever having children because it looks so horrible <facepalm>
> 
> Trying to speak to them about how what they see there is by no means the be all and end all and a good representation of labour and birth without getting ranty was not easy lol.
> 
> I just find it so sad now that there are girls watching these programs and being terrified and they're expectations are of agony and fear.
> 
> Its not as if I can even let them know from personal experience that it can be good - all I could do is let them know that from personal experience what they see is often not what is best for the woman but just seemingly accepted practice.
> 
> Thankfully the Mum of one of the girls is a MW who also thinks the program is a terrible representation of labour and birth.

This is what really worries me - what are the next generation on women going to think about child birth??! 
What are we going to do, to put women back in control of their own bodies.. and although the law is already here to support women.. (everybody has the right to say no) will it be in the future? There is an increasingly dwindling number of women who are saying no to the medicalisation of birth, so our experiences could become lost along with a legacy of normal birth (as it just wont be the normal anymore) If I'm honest it already has been lost to some extent, as a majority of women are scared of child birth and submit to the hospitals as they are, sometimes without clinical indications, passively coxed in with the thread of fear behind them. :cry:

woooh - sorry, I'll just step down from that soap-box :haha:
Still it's not all doom and gloom, the ladies on here with their passion make me smile and not feel marginlised. :hugs:


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## PeanutBean

I'm so glad I have the homebirth section this time. The more I get into this the more I feel isolated so it's wonderful to have you ladies and some of you are even more mad than me! :lol:


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## PeanutBean

I was just coming on here to say how much better it's been this episode (excluding the MW stating blindly there is zero risk to the baby from epidural), there's been a water birth and they just had another woman up on a ball and on all fours pushing, then next scene she was suddenly on her back again! Gah!


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## Bournefree

It really was alot better, wasn't it! I just fell in love with the Nigerian couple! Esp when they were laughing talking about porn!
XxX


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## PeanutBean

But he wanted a boy! Stupid patriarchy. I liked him say he could "see her pain". :rofl: I remember looking at my continuous monitor readings and watching the scale go up.


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## Anababe

Im just watching it now, the girl who had a water birth has just delivered and I was crying more than they were!! Haha Aww and she was called Lydia which is what my little girl will be called :cloud9:


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## Jenniflower

Loved the water birth!! But man is that family pretty. hahaha. She did amazing she did. Even in the last stage where she was screaming just a bit she only did during the contraction and the pushing bit and then was calm again. It was more an animalistic moan than a scream imo. I started crying instantly when the baby came out and then nearly started to sob when I saw the dad tearing up. hahaha

I was shocked to see so much blood though. All the videos I watch the water is still relatively clear after birth. Or is the blood more normal?


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## Jenniflower

Still watching....

"It doesn't effect the baby, it doesn't go into the blood stream and into the placenta" WHAT THE F***??!??!!??!! 



> The medication used in epidurals (local anesthetics such as bupivicaine) crosses the placenta by diffusion. This means that when epidurals are administered, the medication rapidly diffuses across cell membranes, crosses the placenta and enters the bloodstream of the baby. According to one study, bupivicaine (administered via an epidural) was found in blood samples taken from newborns after the mothers had an elective cesarean.

I'm seriously so fired up that she lied to that woman!! That woman was afraid it would effect the baby and she was right about that. Seriously I think that midwife should be in trouble for telling a down right lie. Wow I'm really upset by this, hahaha.


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## tink23

Jenniflower said:


> Loved the water birth!! But man is that family pretty. hahaha. She did amazing she did. Even in the last stage where she was screaming just a bit she only did during the contraction and the pushing bit and then was calm again. It was more an animalistic moan than a scream imo. I started crying instantly when the baby came out and then nearly started to sob when I saw the dad tearing up. hahaha
> 
> I was shocked to see so much blood though. All the videos I watch the water is still relatively clear after birth. Or is the blood more normal?

omg same here, OH and I both teared up and had a little cuddle :) (normally he doesn't show his feelings at all, I've seen him cry once in 4 years..!)

She did amazingly well, I only hope my home/waterbirth goes half as well as hers!! :winkwink:


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## Bournefree

Jenniflower said:


> I was shocked to see so much blood though. All the videos I watch the water is still relatively clear after birth. Or is the blood more normal?

I would say clear would be more normal. Just because if your placenta hasn't detached and you haven't torn, there can't be a site for the blood to come from?!
However it's not abnormal to have blood in the water as, blood in water disperses quickly.. and looks ALOT more than it really is! You can try this at home (bear with me).. prick your finger with a sterile needle, and add just one drop into a cup of water. You might have noticed the effect in the bath or shower sometimes - esp if you are as haphazard as me in shaving your legs - it can look like a scene from Psycho!

My water was clear (picture below.. excuse the boobs and everything else on show, but I really don't care who sees my naked pics anymore), and interestingly smelt like very weak bleach.. and that was the smell of my amniotic fluid. 
Not to be too gross; when my MW's asked to see my pad when I thought my waters had started to go - she gave it a sniff! I was shocked, and asked her what on earth she was doing.. and told her she must REALLY love her job! lol, but she was testing for that bleachy smell.
XxX
 



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## AP

Thanks bournefree. I have been thinking about a water birth for the past few weeks but thought it was impossible after my previous pregnancy, but after watching OBEM I though, sod it, I will ask. And the midwife said as long as I have no complications and get to term, it will be ok. :) 
I was taken aback with the blood but what you said about shaving legs makes utter sense!! So thank you!


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## Mervs Mum

some women have a little gush like that but I think 2 things made it look worse.. firstly it does look more in water and secondly ALL the goddam lights were on full tilt!


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## Bournefree

Mervs Mum said:


> some women have a little gush like that but I think 2 things made it look worse.. firstly it does look more in water and secondly ALL the goddam lights were on full tilt!

Busted!! Did you watch last nights show? :winkwink:
It was very bright in there though. I don't think I would have liked that so much.
XxX


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## Mervs Mum

:rofl: I did! My client told me there was a waterbirth and she'd be watching so I felt I needed to watch....:winkwink:


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## PeanutBean

Jenni I was furious at that mw that lied too! I posted about it in fb which caused controversy with my anaesthetist friend. We are constantly locking horns because she believes drugs are lovely and if she'd done my epidural all would've been hunky dory. I ought to add she's not had a baby. Nor an epidural...


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## Mervs Mum

Add me on fb peanut ready for next week! We can tag team her!!!


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## Mervs Mum

Add me on fb peanut ready for next week! We can tag team her!!! :rofl:


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## Tegans Mama

I'm watching OBEM now. I didn't want to because it makes me bitter if I'm frank, (I want a baby, dammit! :lol: ) and it does make me ANGRY. I had the very, very best of intentions with my labour until I found out about T's SB, and then I had to change my plans. No chance of a HB with her having it, and I was in a BAD mental place as it was. I did feel like a spectator at my birth (but I also felt like a spectator of my life, lol) and get very angry thinking about it now. My next birth will be worlds apart from my last one.


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## Anababe

I wouldnt have liked the room that bright with the waterbirth. Was lovely though and her OH's face made me cry when he had tears in his eyes.. so cute! lol

I didnt like that the MW lied about the Epi or when the other lady was ready for crowning the midwife said 'This is going to really hurt now' :shock: As if you want to hear that!!


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## Mervs Mum

:hugs:


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## PeanutBean

:hugs: Lea, it will be totally different when it happens!

Where do I find you Lisa?


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## Mervs Mum

Lisa Sykes Leeds network I think it's a black and White picture of me looking down at a very small Sid on my shoulder


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## PeanutBean

I'm guessing mutual friends means it's you! :D


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## Jenniflower

MM (Lisa, if it's ok I call you that?) I tried to stalk you on facebook also but I can't seem to find you! There are too many Lisa Sykes!

PB and MM you can add me though! :) I got a few crazy looks when I posted the 'you have a choice' video. I'm apparently known as homebirth hippy now. :dohh:

ME! --> https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.k.noble


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## Mervs Mum

It's fine to call me Lisa! I just added you ;-) x Here's me FB


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## PeanutBean

I just added you. Same initials in case you wonder who it is!


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## pimento1979

PB and Jenni, feel free to add me too  https://www.facebook.com/cathyolive


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## Jenniflower

added, added and added.

to get slightly back on topic, only still mildly off topic. I was at my antenatal class again tonight and there was a women in my class who asked the midwife "Does the epidural effect the baby at all" And the midwife said "No"!!!!!!! :help:

What is with this statement??? I couldn't help myself and I started asking subtle questions like how is the epi administered? So you're saying nothing gets into the blood stream? Well if it goes into our blood stream then how come it doesn't go into the baby? She didn't have an answer. And then I asked her about the possibility about of it effecting the babies heart rate as it can effect your BP and she was like.. oh yes yes it can do that. :dohh: She always does this and it makes me so mad. She doesn't give the ful info, just the info SHE wants to give. :growlmad: OH! OH! I also asked her about the risks of getting on, ie headaches, backpain etc... Her answer was anecdotal about her never seeing anything like that. But that's not really the right answer no?


Oh and I got this off the Americanpregnancy.org website:


> Though research is somewhat ambiguous, most studies suggest some babies will have trouble "latching on" which can lead to breastfeeding difficulties. Other studies suggest that the baby may experience respiratory depression, fetal malpositioning; and an increase in fetal heart rate variability, which may increase the need for forceps, vacuum, cesarean deliveries and episiotomies.


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## PeanutBean

Exactly! I knew I was right when I mentioned bf being hindered potentially. And what's with not mentioning the well established risks of assisted delivery? Because they don't have any effect on the baby? :dohh: It's this method of considering every medical action as an individual issue with discrete effects instead of looking at the process of interventions and how they bring one another on. Or in other words, this habit of lying. :growlmad:


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## Bournefree

It's laughable isn't it PB - if it wasn't so serious anyway!

They just don't trust women to make there own decisions. I can't tell you the number of times, I have been spoken to like a child with a diminished intellect, with my first pregnancy (unbelievably unhelpful!). I for one want full facts, good and bad.. because that is the thing about evidence and facts, they don't have an agenda.
We should be able to trust our heath professionals to give balanced information, without slant and without them thinking, "oh it's just to complex for YOU to understand!"
Bet you rattled them a bit Jenni- and good for you, that you did!
I've declined to go to my community Anti-natal classes, but perhaps I should, I'm not saying that I won't learn anything, but more I'd like to go to make sure women arn't lead down one particular path, and like you, ask the right questions!
XxX


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## Jenniflower

I've been enjoying my classes otherwise. I'm the type of person that like to know EVERYTHING in order to make an informed decision. So it was great to see things like an Epi needle or here about diamorphine and how badly it effects the baby and such. Other than her lieing (and now I'm beginning to think it's just midwives being lied to personally) she's great in saying non of us should be looking to that option anyways. Stick with the gas and air as long as possible and before you know they'll pop out! hahaha. She doesn't like to use the word pain much either. She's just funny with getting her facts wrong. 

And for me personally it's nice to meet other midwives that might be attending my homebirth, of course IMO I swear they go running in the other direction when I come. lol. I know Jackie (the above mentioned midwife) always goes back and says "That hippy home birth girl challenged me again this week" :dohh: Oh and I know this mainly because my actual midwife will say something to me like "Oh so Jackie mentioned you had a few questions..."


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## Bournefree

Hehehe!!

We didn't have the same MW for any of our classes with DD, each week a different one, so it was nice to met them all - although in the end we moved to a different county (to Hampshire) in my 36th week and had baby at home there...; I didn't give them much notice! We have since moved back to Bournemouth (Dorset), and they have better HB rates than Hampshire anyways.. but I'm going to have to get to know them all again. I've got plenty of questions for my MW at my 16week appointment, as I can't remember the numbers of on-call MWs. 
Interestingly I have the same MW this time as I did booking in with my last.. and she remembered me very well - even knew the address of where I used to live. I think I made an impression!.. And I don&#8217;t think that is a bad thing!

Going back to the classes though, we had one MW who was so pro-natural, she wouldn&#8217;t even talk about any of the interventions.. Even that in my mind is wrong - as any questions some of the ladies had were just dismissed. So she was totally bias the other way.
I do like it that your lady Jackie doesn&#8217;t like to refer to pain - that&#8217;s excellent!
XxX


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## Zarababy1

sorry to jump in to the thread without really reading it properly, BUT i watched it on monday and i too was shouting at the TV! a lady calmly asking for an epi, i was like WHY WHY WHY! theres nothing wrong with you woman your coping fine!!!! i really wouldnt like to be in the hospital to deliver anyway!


----------



## PeanutBean

I agree with everything you girls have said. We need evidence on both sides. I think the MWs being lied to might have a point, after all they're not qualified in epidurals either, do we think all MWs keep up to date with all research on the medical interventions? Maybe they do but I bet not, for whatever reason (overwork probably!).

I don't think second time mums are allowed at the antenatal classes our team runs otherwise I'd go and stick my oar into everything! Every day I feel I was more and more naive about the whole thing and I really thought I had an open mind and understood my options.


----------



## Bournefree

Oh yeah, I felt as though I was pretty informed about my first birth, but was caught out when the MW asked me if I'd like my DD to have the Vit K injection after she was born - I didn't have a clue what they were talking about.. hadn't read about it, hadn't even heard of it!!
It's interesting they wouldn't allow you to go second time around.. I have been offered, but I didn't want to do it again. They should have secret second time mums volunter to go in.. and give feedback on quality? ;-)

Zara, Yeah that lovely Nigerian lady was doing so well, and I couldn't tell if she did have it or not, as that bit was cut? (or did I miss it going in?)
XxX


----------



## PeanutBean

I haven't asked and they haven't offered but in the depths of my mind I think it's the case. I could be wrong. I'm not sure I'd have the time anyway!


----------



## Zarababy1

I duno I think she did have it and it was just cut out but it wasn't very clear! Either way she was doing fine and really didn't need the epi I hate how easy the midwife gave in to her "I want an epi" "ok I'll go get it sorted for you" dear me! I shouldn't be that easy its almost like giving up! She didn't offer her anything else! I don't know if that was because she asked if it would affect the baby and something like pethadine would but still midwifes give in far to easy on something that is most of the time completely unnecessary! If they care about nothing else they should at least think about the cost!


----------



## aob1013

Some of the comments in this thread are really upsetting.

I think we all need to remember that birth can go many different ways, and it isn't set in stone. Sometimes Mums have no control whatsoever about the outcome, whether it be a hospital birth, section, epidurals etc. Everyone handles pain differently.

First time Mums who don't know what's in store for them yet, need to be more open minded about this situation. Best to keep an open mind really.


----------



## indy and lara

PeanutBean said:


> I don't think second time mums are allowed at the antenatal classes our team runs otherwise I'd go and stick my oar into everything! Every day I feel I was more and more naive about the whole thing and I really thought I had an open mind and understood my options.

Second time Mums can go to ante natal classes here. We went to AN classes when I was pg with Emma. There were 2 other ladies who had had babies previously too.


----------



## indy and lara

Oh, and at our classes they did say that the epi would make the baby sleepy afterwards so I guess that was their acknowledgement?


----------



## Anababe

I only went to the classes for my first, I cant remember what they said about the Epidural to be honest.

I do think though we cant be so quick to judge those who have whatever pain relief/choose C-Sec. Im all for going natural and personally would NEVER want an Epidural now and glad I have never had one. But everyone copes differently, I was in so much pain with my first I was begging for pain relief and they kept refusing telling me I wasnt in as much pain as i thought (in a patronising not supportive way!), so they didnt give in to me at all. Im glad now I did it without anything but it left me with only bad memories of my hospital experience because I was left with no pain relief when I really wanted it. So in a way id rather they had given in to me than completely ignoring my request for help when I clearly wasnt coping.

Ive been lucky really with both my births, one of my best friends had a horrible first experience, very large baby (over 10lb and shes only a small girl) severe tearing, forceps delivery which ended up with baby having brain damage and given just 24 hrs to live (Luckily he ended up fine and is 7 now!). She chose elective C-Sec for her next two as she didnt want to go through labour again. I personally would rather do anything than have a csec but i dont blame her or think bad of her at all for choosing to go that route rather than natural labour again.


----------



## PeanutBean

I don't think anyone has judged any of the mums for wanting an epidural or other pain relief. I think mostly the beef (certainly mine anyway) is with the health professionals downright lying.

ETA I had everything in my first labour!


----------



## Mervs Mum

aob1013 said:


> Some of the comments in this thread are really upsetting.
> 
> I think we all need to remember that birth can go many different ways, and it isn't set in stone. Sometimes Mums have no control whatsoever about the outcome, whether it be a hospital birth, section, epidurals etc. Everyone handles pain differently.
> 
> First time Mums who don't know what's in store for them yet, need to be more open minded about this situation. Best to keep an open mind really.

Which comments have upset you? As PB said no one has said anything about which pain relief people have or dont have but that the HCPs did not always appear to act in the best interests of the mums AND that at times they lied! 

And I have had an epidural, forceps, episiotomy, pethadine, G&A and the WHOOOOOLE shibang with my first baby so I speak as someone with experience of BOTH sides of the coin ;) I WISH I had known then what I know now.......



> First time mums who dont know what's in store for them yet

 I just WISH I had known then what I know now.......I dont know how to read that comment at all.......


----------



## Zarababy1

I agree with you lot its not the ladys wanting pain relief in labour that's the problem for me its the way the midwifes and drs deal with it, instead of trying alternatives with the woman like getting most of them off their backs, I feel like they give in just for an easy life most of the time, I had pethadine that I didn't want or need when I was in labour with harry 15mins before he was born which led to us both being sleepy and me having an issue with bonding with him if the midwife had just told me I was doing fine and to calm down and breath more we wouldn't have been put in that situation, same can probably be said for most other women on obem!


----------



## aob1013

Mervs Mum said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> Some of the comments in this thread are really upsetting.
> 
> I think we all need to remember that birth can go many different ways, and it isn't set in stone. Sometimes Mums have no control whatsoever about the outcome, whether it be a hospital birth, section, epidurals etc. Everyone handles pain differently.
> 
> First time Mums who don't know what's in store for them yet, need to be more open minded about this situation. Best to keep an open mind really.
> 
> Which comments have upset you? As PB said no one has said anything about which pain relief people have or dont have but that the HCPs did not always appear to act in the best interests of the mums AND that at times they lied!
> 
> And I have had an epidural, forceps, episiotomy, pethadine, G&A and the WHOOOOOLE shibang with my first baby so I speak as someone with experience of BOTH sides of the coin ;) I WISH I had known then what I know now.......
> 
> 
> 
> First time mums who dont know what's in store for them yetClick to expand...
> 
> I just WISH I had known then what I know now.......I dont know how to read that comment at all.......Click to expand...

I'm not going to go back and quote people as i don't have the time, or energy for war :lol:

But, as a Mum who was hoping for a natural birth in the water, or a homebirth i found myself in preterm labour, had to have him in the hospital, had to have an epidural, emergency section etc and some of the comments in this thread i have found upsetting. Almost mocking people that are having or had to have their babies in hospital.


----------



## Mervs Mum

Well I HAVE gone back over it to check there is nothing mocking ANYONE in this thread and I am offended at you implying there is. If you took time to talk to the women on this thread and others on this board you will see a large percentage of them have found themselves in similar and even much worse situations than you found yourself in. They planned natural / home / water births and ended up feeling let down / violated / lied to. So you should see that here you can actually find solidarity amongst women who truly know your pain.


----------



## Mervs Mum

and I dont want a 'war' - I'm a lover not a fighter :winkwink:


----------



## aob1013

Mervs Mum said:


> and I dont want a 'war' - I'm a lover not a fighter :winkwink:

Me too :)


----------



## aob1013

Mervs Mum said:


> Well I HAVE gone back over it to check there is nothing mocking ANYONE in this thread and I am offended at you implying there is. If you took time to talk to the women on this thread and others on this board you will see a large percentage of them have found themselves in similar and even much worse situations than you found yourself in. They planned natural / home / water births and ended up feeling let down / violated / lied to. So you should see that here you can actually find solidarity amongst women who truly know your pain.

I don't really care if you are offended, i am allowed an opinion and that's how i feel about it.

I know that there are other women who have also experienced similar stories, and like i have felt let down, violated and lied too. Just some of the comments i have personally found upsetting. I am allowed to say that.


----------



## Mervs Mum

aob1013 said:


> *I don't really care if you are offended,* i am allowed an opinion and that's how i feel about it.
> 
> I know that there are other women who have also experienced similar stories, and like i have felt let down, violated and lied too. Just some of the comments i have personally found upsetting. I am allowed to say that.

:shock:

Of course you're allowed to say it. What a shame that I DO care if you are offended yet you feel it's ok to be offensive :(


----------



## Jenniflower

aob1013 said:


> Mervs Mum said:
> 
> 
> Well I HAVE gone back over it to check there is nothing mocking ANYONE in this thread and I am offended at you implying there is. If you took time to talk to the women on this thread and others on this board you will see a large percentage of them have found themselves in similar and even much worse situations than you found yourself in. They planned natural / home / water births and ended up feeling let down / violated / lied to. So you should see that here you can actually find solidarity amongst women who truly know your pain.
> 
> I don't really care if you are offended, i am allowed an opinion and that's how i feel about it.
> 
> I know that there are other women who have also experienced similar stories, and like i have felt let down, violated and lied too. Just some of the comments i have personally found upsetting. I am allowed to say that.Click to expand...

I find it interesting that you're allowed an opinion whilst the other women on here are not. 

We're quite an open minded group of gals and having personally been through every page on this thread to find out who was being a bit on the rude side I can't seem to find a single one. 

The show is meant to be talked about and discussed. Women want to share their opinions and their fears. They want to talk about how it made them feel and what they liked and disliked. And in my experience this is one of the few places on this board where we all feel like we can express those thoughts. So please don't come on here making any of them feel bad for anything they've said and trying to make trouble. We're all peace loving, placenta eating hippies here. :winkwink:


----------



## Mervs Mum

Jenniflower said:


> We're all peace loving, placenta eating hippies here. :winkwink:


:rofl: We are! I even wear flowers in my hair and occasionally forget to shave my pits! :lol: 

But seriously - there are never any fall outs over here :flower:


----------



## aob1013

Jenniflower said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mervs Mum said:
> 
> 
> Well I HAVE gone back over it to check there is nothing mocking ANYONE in this thread and I am offended at you implying there is. If you took time to talk to the women on this thread and others on this board you will see a large percentage of them have found themselves in similar and even much worse situations than you found yourself in. They planned natural / home / water births and ended up feeling let down / violated / lied to. So you should see that here you can actually find solidarity amongst women who truly know your pain.
> 
> I don't really care if you are offended, i am allowed an opinion and that's how i feel about it.
> 
> I know that there are other women who have also experienced similar stories, and like i have felt let down, violated and lied too. Just some of the comments i have personally found upsetting. I am allowed to say that.Click to expand...
> 
> I find it interesting that you're allowed an opinion whilst the other women on here are not.
> 
> We're quite an open minded group of gals and having personally been through every page on this thread to find out who was being a bit on the rude side I can't seem to find a single one.
> 
> The show is meant to be talked about and discussed. Women want to share their opinions and their fears. They want to talk about how it made them feel and what they liked and disliked. And in my experience this is one of the few places on this board where we all feel like we can express those thoughts. So please don't come on here making any of them feel bad for anything they've said and trying to make trouble. We're all peace loving, placenta eating hippies here. :winkwink:Click to expand...

Everyone is allowed an opinion, and we are all allowed to comment on that opinion :shrug:

Nobody is right or wrong here, i just wanted to add my 2 cents of how i felt.

Expressing opinion, is not causing trouble ;)


----------



## aob1013

Mervs Mum said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> *I don't really care if you are offended,* i am allowed an opinion and that's how i feel about it.
> 
> I know that there are other women who have also experienced similar stories, and like i have felt let down, violated and lied too. Just some of the comments i have personally found upsetting. I am allowed to say that.
> 
> :shock:
> 
> Of course you're allowed to say it. What a shame that I DO care if you are offended yet you feel it's ok to be offensive :(Click to expand...

I'm sorry you feel that i was offensive, however that wasn't my intention. My intention was to only post my own feelings :flower:


----------



## Zarababy1

:rofl: my mum calls me a hippy all the time, and I really do have legs worse than my husbands right now ;-) its all about au-natural! :lol:


----------



## aob1013

I like being called a hippy :lol:

It's good to be different i guess!


----------



## Mervs Mum

aob1013 said:


> I'm sorry you feel that i was offensive, however that wasn't my intention. My intention was to only post my own feelings :flower:

Which coincidentally is exactly what everyone else on this thread was doing....see how no one actually meant anyone, any offense whatsoever....


----------



## PeanutBean

You should see some of the things that were said in the main thread in the tv bit, much less forgiving than anything in here. I found some of the opinions there quite odd...


----------



## Sarah10

Zarababy1 said:


> I duno I think she did have it and it was just cut out but it wasn't very clear! Either way she was doing fine and really didn't need the epi I hate how easy the midwife gave in to her "I want an epi" "ok I'll go get it sorted for you" dear me! I shouldn't be that easy its almost like giving up! She didn't offer her anything else! I don't know if that was because she asked if it would affect the baby and something like pethadine would but still midwifes give in far to easy on something that is most of the time completely unnecessary! If they care about nothing else they should at least think about the cost!

I asked for an epidural, they got it right away, i don't feel i gave up easily! I wasn't offered anything else too, maybe she stated in her birthplan she wanted it if she needed it and didn't want any other pain relief like i also stated.


----------



## Anababe

ooo im certainly not a hippy.. and i shaved my legs this week am i still allowed over here :winkwink: hehe

I dont think any offence was intended nor should any have been taken so :flower: all round!

I kind of understand why sometimes some posts over here _could_ be seen as offensive.. i dont find them that way but i do see how people could take things wrong.

In this thread in particular comments like 'she was coping fine and didnt need an epi' I feel is *a little* (dont shoot me.. im just being honest :kiss: ) judgmental as everyone copes differently and although she looked fine if thats as much pain as someone is prepared to take then its her right to ask for and immediately get whatever pain relief she wants without being made to feel like shes given up.

Thats the only part of this thread i could find that could possibly come across slightly offensive.

*runs away and hides* :haha:


----------



## aob1013

Mervs Mum said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that i was offensive, however that wasn't my intention. My intention was to only post my own feelings :flower:
> 
> Which coincidentally is exactly what everyone else on this thread was doing....see how no one actually meant anyone, any offense whatsoever....Click to expand...

Course not, people don't mean to offend others. Doesn't mean people don't feel offended.

Anyway, this is nothing to do with the thread now :flower:


----------



## aob1013

Anababe said:


> ooo im certainly not a hippy.. and i shaved my legs this week am i still allowed over here :winkwink: hehe
> 
> I dont think any offence was intended nor should any have been taken so :flower: all round!
> 
> I kind of understand why sometimes some posts over here _could_ be seen as offensive.. i dont find them that way but i do see how people could take things wrong.
> 
> In this thread in particular comments like 'she was coping fine and didnt need an epi' I feel is *a little* (dont shoot me.. im just being honest :kiss: ) judgmental as everyone copes differently and although she looked fine if thats as much pain as someone is prepared to take then its her right to ask for and immediately get whatever pain relief she wants without being made to feel like shes given up.
> 
> Thats the only part of this thread i could find that could possibly come across slightly offensive.
> 
> *runs away and hides* :haha:

That's what i meant :thumbup:

You don't get any medals for giving birth, whether you have it 'naturally' or not!


----------



## Zarababy1

Forgive me if I'm wrong but this thread is in the "natural and home birth" part of the forum is it not? Therefore the opinions of people in here are going to be in favour of it being natural? so no, you don't get a medal for doing it "naturally" but this is a place for women who believe in natural birth no one is saying its wrong to have any kind of pain relief we're simply expressing our opinions if someone finds it offensive that I (I say I because no one else has actually said it) don't think the lady NEEDED it then its not my fault someone finds my beliefs offensive, there's lots of things I find offensive in life and you know what I do, agree that everyone is entitled to there own opinion and understand that not everyone will be happy with that but that's life wouldn't the world be a boring place if we were all the same?


----------



## Mervs Mum

Anababe said:


> ooo im certainly not a hippy.. and i shaved my legs this week am i still allowed over here :winkwink: hehe
> 
> I dont think any offence was intended nor should any have been taken so :flower: all round!
> 
> I kind of understand why sometimes some posts over here _could_ be seen as offensive.. i dont find them that way but i do see how people could take things wrong.
> 
> In this thread in particular comments like 'she was coping fine and didnt need an epi' I feel is *a little* (dont shoot me.. im just being honest :kiss: ) judgmental as everyone copes differently and although she looked fine if thats as much pain as someone is prepared to take then its her right to ask for and immediately get whatever pain relief she wants without being made to feel like shes given up.
> 
> Thats the only part of this thread i could find that could possibly come across slightly offensive.
> 
> *runs away and hides* :haha:

Absolutely agree that we all cope differently and it's her right to ask for an immediately get what she wants. I think the point trying to be made maybe is that she really should have had lots of positive encouragement first from the staff and her birth partner/s (I cant remember the specific one here so bear with me :lol: ) which might have just got her through for a little while longer and to a point where she regained her focus and her baby may have been just minutes away. I know when I hit transition with my second baby I BEGGED / DEMANDED I was removed from the pool and taken promptly to the hospital for an epidural! I'd said in my birth plan that I thought I may do that and that I wanted encouraging to carry on and that it was a good sign that my baby was almost here. I told my OH I didnt give a flyling fandango what the birth plan said, I wanted an epi and I wanted it NOW! Fortunately the MW and my OH (poor sod!) found ways to help me refocus, encourage me that I COULD do it and lo and behold 20 mins later I had a baby. I might have had the epi (like I did with my first baby) and been at it hours later.......We dont know that she's not said something of the kind too...TV and editing can be deceptive like that cant it.


----------



## Zarababy1

yeah it just kind of showed her asking for it, the midwife saying ok and the next thing was her having the baby it didnt make it clear if she got it or not, i screamed and begged for an epi with harry and i was lucky enough to have a midwife and birthing partners who helped me through without the need for it, it could be poorly edited and she could have been coping alot worse than they made it look, but the point is weather its the case or not it made it look like she was just sat there happily asking for it just as a way out, and thats the problem in alot of hospitals women are not informed that if they get up and move about or if they hold off on certain pain relief untill a little bit later then it can make everything much easier, im in no way saying an epi or any other kind of pain relief is wrong in fact i think the episode before the one we're talking about with the lady screaming in pain is exactly the sort of situation where extra pain relief is good, and yes it is up to the woman what she chooses to do, the same kind of thing after a woman has had a c-section if she decides to go for a vbac or another c-section thats her choice, but its also my opinion that most of the time epidurals and assisted deliveries could be prevented by the correct coaching through labour. it would save the NHS a fortune for a start and i know not everyone is the same and some times there is a medical need for intervention but most of the time i personally believe with better training more natural and easy deliveries can be achieved, and im a firm believer that birth should be easy and natural, which is why i mull about over here


----------



## PeanutBean

Worse than getting it without a second thought when asking for it is being offered it unnecessarily when you're at your wits end ignoring the birth plan saying no epi. That's what happened to me and I am 100% certain it was the sole reason I couldn't push. I was like a broken horse by that point. I'd been taken out the pool when my contractions were picking up, been persuaded to take pethidine and then 30 hours after the start of labour, half conscious, the final nail of the coffin was inserted into my spine. :nope:


----------



## Zarababy1

Peanutbean i have to say i do not know ONE single person who has had an epi and had a fully natural delivery without the use of forceps vontoues and leading to emergancey c-section, and before people start jumping on me sceaming "i did i did" i know its possible and i know lots of people do, but i dont know anyone who has, i also dont know anyone whos had an emergancy c-section without getting an epidural quite early on in labour although i do know people who have had assisted deliverys with only g&a


^^ sorry about the poor spelling i have a 1 year old hanging from my hip whilst cooking dinner :rofl:

edit reading that back it sounds awful! what im trying to get across is my main reason for being so against it!


----------



## Bournefree

I totally know what you mean!

If I hadn't told my OH to hold fast for me during that transistion moment - he could of grabbed the bags, and we would have been off to the hospital. I was told that feeling of absolute need for escape would happen.. but didn't think that it would happen to me - why would it, I was so prepared! But it did, and although I wasn't in any pain, not at all, I was having a full on panic, and didn't want to be part of any of it - if someone could have said then take this, and you won't be pregnant anymore, I would have taken it. I was so proud of my OH. He just took me in his arms.. and breathed with me rocking me from side to side.. and iin a blink it was over. I was through it. Labour really started and it was amazing how my conscious mind wasn't needed, and I was there, but in a totally different place - It is really hard to explain.. but everything was peaceful in my mind from that point.
If I had had and epi at that point.. I personally imagine that it would have lead my labour down a very different road. I'm so pleased that it wasn't on tap, and my MWs recognised my panic as a good sign things were really about to get good
XxX


----------



## PeanutBean

I neve had transition as my contractions were all on tap. Must remember to warn DH about it though I'm sure my MW will recognise it too. Though the one in the hospital assumed my finally effective contractions were transition...


----------



## Jenniflower

Anyone watch it this week? It started off nice watching a girl actually stay on her knees to deliver, but man they were a bit rough with the cleaning! I'm just watching it now, so I may post more if I feel compelled.


----------



## meg79

I can't remember which girl it was that was shown with her baby right at the end of the show, but I'm sure she was still in a dirty bed from what I could see (looked bloody). Again will have to watch again to see for sure, or someone can correct me...


----------



## Bournefree

Jenniflower said:


> Anyone watch it this week? It started off nice watching a girl actually stay on her knees to deliver, but man they were a bit rough with the cleaning! I'm just watching it now, so I may post more if I feel compelled.

Was that the one that came in from the car park? As the cord was wrapped a bit around babies neck and baby was a little blue - they rubbed him down vigerously to get him to breath. These little babies are tough as old boots really! (if old boots were made of elastic bands) :thumbup:
XxX


----------



## Bournefree

Anyone watching tonight?
One of the ladies has just had pessary to induce.

What I don't understand, (and perhaps it wasn't shown) was that the consultant recommended induction after she had had a bloody show - she does have a heart condition - but the words that were used, were that her membranes had ruptured... to me the small amount of bloody show she had wasn't a membrane rupture?? anyone else think this?


----------



## PeanutBean

Sorry Bourne feeling to poorly to watch and rant tonight! Will most likely be off sick tomorrow at this rate so I'll watch on demand and rant then.


----------



## Bournefree

Oh dear - hope you start to feel better soon - though maybe not too soon, so you get a day off! ;-)
XxX


----------



## Bournefree

Repeat post


----------



## PeanutBean

Won't be much of a day off anyway as Byron is out of nursery after vomiting this morning. He seems to have the same thing though for him it includes an all over rash. :( I'd have him watch it with me tomorrow but fear it will undo the good work our homebirth storybooks are doing! So it'll be naptime unless I'm asleep too!


----------



## Bournefree

I'm alone here I know, but wowowowowow! at the vigour of the forceps. I'm shocked!!!!
XxX


----------



## aob1013

The forceps thing was scary!


----------



## evewidow

Bournefree said:


> I'm alone here I know, but wowowowowow! at the vigour of the forceps. I'm shocked!!!!
> XxX

god me too they really pull dont they , made me feel bad tbh. :(


----------



## Mervs Mum

Not watched it again but forceps are a bit scary arent they! I remember shouting 'NO!' as I caught a glimpse of them heading for my Va-Jay-Jay when I had my first! :lol: Giant scary salad tongs!


----------



## aob1013

They look rigid,like metal???!?! Doesn't that hurt baby??!!


----------



## PeanutBean

^ They are!


----------



## Mervs Mum

Yes! My daughter had a black eye for a week!


----------



## PeanutBean

I've just watched it. Another sad one for natural birthing. I can see how someone with a problem heart might need special consideration but I still felt very sad for the forceps delivery. And she felt so proud. :cry: I was thinking that when seeing how much force the doctor exerts when using forceps we should turn it round to how much force we amazing women exert with our uteruses. There is the true wonder. :D


----------



## jstarr

I had to have forceps so glad i didn't see them before but there was a screen up in theatre..he only had a tiny cut on his head and red marks round his eyes though but he looked like he'd been in a fight!


----------



## Jenniflower

They don't use forceps in American any more just the vacuum and now I see why. :shock: And we all think the US is backwards all the time. :nope:


----------



## Jenniflower

Watching the show just now so will give my commentary as it goes along...

The lady in the pink my goodness!! If I've ever seen someone who would benefit from some relaxation techniques it would be her. I don't think laying flat on her back is really helping either. 

The lady with the heart problem was great just sitting there eating some food while contracting. 

Hahahah I can't believe that midwife just told the pink lady to get a grip! :rofl:
I feel a little bad for her because she wanted the Epi for so long and they wouldn't give it to her but then she's fully dialated so now she can't have one. I think they should have done a better job at listening to her. 

I think I might have missed something but did anyone catch if the heart lady had an epi at all? I love how she just wanted something natural for a change because of all the crap she's been through. Made me kinda teary eyed. 

"Try not to make any noise" Really? :wacko: 
"I need gas and air!" "Let's have a baby instead" :rofl:
I think that midwife is a bit patronizing IMO. I would love to have her though, she seems like my type of woman. Gives no crap and just tells it as it is. 
Watching that pink women do that with no real pain relief and in complete agony with an OP baby has just really convinced me that most all women can do it naturally! It might hurt a bit but the benefits far out weighed anything. Even though she annoyed me while watching it, I'm so proud of her!


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## PeanutBean

I really felt for the pink lady. She did have pethidine which I guess helped her sink through dilation. I consider to have been neglected by that first mw.

The heart lady did have an epi. There was a conversation where she was saying how hard it was to push not feeling it. She'll have needed it for those forceps!

I'm having rows about this show all over the forum! :lol:


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## evewidow

the pink lady lol ..why was her bed pushed against the wall and not in the middle - did anyone else think that was odd ?


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## Jenniflower

evewidow said:


> the pink lady lol ..why was her bed pushed against the wall and not in the middle - did anyone else think that was odd ?

I did not until just now. odd.


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## Amy_K

I watched it this afternoon, and it really depressed me, so much so that I ended up having a litte cry.

I really feel for the women they show in these episodes, they seem to get such a raw deal. The pink lady in particular seemed totally neglected and no one would listen to her. I think she would have felt so much better for some coaching through the contactions until she got the hang of breathing through the pain. She alluded to stressful previous birth but MW's seemed indifferent :(

And the heart lady, there were a few parts that really made me cringe like when her mum and partner were laughing at her birthing noises and I also saw one of the midwives pulling a face too.


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## PeanutBean

I love this section. Honestly in other threads I simply said I didn't think the episode was a great advert for natural birthing again and have been defending myself on it all day! Forgive me for this next comment, but lots of women who haven't been in labour yet talking about how you have your own mind and can say no and can't be forced into anything etc. I'm resisting saying anything back. I don't want to be the jaded, bad experience, nutty, natural-birther woman! And I just don't understand why everyone is so keen to defend the medics over the women in labour getting proper explanations and choices. :wacko:


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## aob1013

PeanutBean said:


> I love this section. Honestly in other threads I simply said I didn't think the episode was a great advert for natural birthing again and have been defending myself on it all day! Forgive me for this next comment,* but lots of women who haven't been in labour yet talking about how you have your own mind and can say no and can't be forced into anything etc. I'm resisting saying anything back. * I don't want to be the jaded, bad experience, nutty, natural-birther woman! And I just don't understand why everyone is so keen to defend the medics over the women in labour getting proper explanations and choices. :wacko:

People that don't know what they are talking about are the hardest to convince ... i was one of them! :haha:


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## PeanutBean

Well that is true but I don't want to say that! I only have my own one experience and I carry a whole world of biases with that, I am totally aware that I do. I try hard on here to say it can be bad it can be good, it's best you know both sides and their liklihood and any alternatives in order to choose what's right for you. But in my head I am so often screaming NOOOOO!!!! But there is so much burying of heads in the sand. I just cannot get my own head around it.


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## Tasha

Oh the forceps scared me too, not just the look but the brute force they use.


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## Jenniflower

PeanutBean said:


> I love this section. Honestly in other threads I simply said I didn't think the episode was a great advert for natural birthing again and have been defending myself on it all day! Forgive me for this next comment, but lots of women who haven't been in labour yet talking about how you have your own mind and can say no and can't be forced into anything etc. I'm resisting saying anything back. I don't want to be the jaded, bad experience, nutty, natural-birther woman! *And I just don't understand why everyone is so keen to defend the medics over the women in labour getting proper explanations and choices. *:wacko:

It's because we've been trained to listen to the doctor. Doctor knows best, listen to the doctor, go to the doctor. People don't realize that actually as humans we know are bodies better than any stranger with a degree ever will. Which is why doctors and midwives need to be more open to offering different opinions and advice when met with different people. Something that IMO doesn't happen often enough. 

Completely un baby related but I had a horrible pain in my heel and back ankle and when I went to my GP she told me there's nothing we could do, that I would have to get better shoes and maybe find a job where I wasn't on my feet all day. In the end I didn't listen to her and self referred myself (we have Bupa through hubby's work) to a foot doctor (what are they called? hahaha) who took as xray and found I had swelling in my heel. I was sent off to a Physio who used ultrasound technology to fix that bit and he also realized the reason my heel hurt was because I had early tendinitis in it. If I had listened to my GP I would still be in pain with worse tendinitis and the swelling in my heel would have caused a heel spur! 

My point is it's not all about birth. It's about the medical practice in general. Some doctors may hate it when a patient comes in with suggestions and ideas about what's wrong with them, but when the majority of doctors treat you as a number and not as an individual what do they expect us to do?! 

Man... I'm ranty today. :blush:


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## Guera

Im in the US and the second show of the first season is on tonight. I will be watching, but it was just torture for me last week. I was yelling at the tv the entire time. OH kept telling me to just change the channel, but it is like a train wreck, I just cant turn away.


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## PeanutBean

I know jenni. But I hate how brainwashed people are. :growlmad: I just want to shake them into using their brains. You know it's not even just medicine it's The Expert and Research. A thread on washing new baby clothes talked of research that showed new clothes are covered in wee and poo and semen and others said they'd seen people sneeze on their hands then touch baby clothes! There was outcry and disgust. So I looked it up. Turns out it came from a US media stunt and was far from research. I looked up how long flu might live on fabric - just a few hours. So I posted this and suddenly the viability of the research is no longer the point, the fear is! Just because the thing that filled people with fear is crap and lies doesn't matter! It's the same with everything.

I hope my post makes sense about what I'm getting at!


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## Bournefree

That makes total sense to me PB - Have you seen Charlie Broker's "how TV ruined your life" on fear. You can still watch it on BBC iplayer. Very funny look at how we a a society are afraid of almost everything!

Guera - Is it the UK version being shown or a US version? I'd like to see a US version.
xXx


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## PeanutBean

I'll look that up today Bourne, off sick so any watching is good for me!

See this is why I went into science communication for a career. Ever since the GM scare in theatre '90s when it said on tv news we'd be cannibals because human genes were being put into fish it's been my mission. But sometimes I just don't have the strength when so many people are determined to simply not think for themselves. Ok I'll finish shunting this thread OT now!


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## Bournefree

Oh dear, your still not feeling well?! Is Bryon still sick too? Poor you.. I prescribe laying in bed with the laptop and lots of tea and toast!

There is no greater thing than knowledge, but also no greater danger than alittle knowledge! But we all should be asking questions and challanging even our own ideas!

I've been a busy bee these last few days skivving up o my medical law, getting in touch with my MP etc... but it is becoming such a long winded battle to get a homebirth this time round, that I think I'll post a seperate thread to let everyone know what's going on with my fight and keep it updated (it is going to take an age to get results)- and hope that noone else has to go through the same!
XxX
Xxx


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## PeanutBean

It's ridiculous that you or any of us should have to fight so hard for what should be normal. :nope:

I'll go look for your thread (if you've made it yet!).

I'm horribly ill but apart from the rash Byron is much better. I threw up from coughing last night. Very much not impressed.


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## Jenniflower

PeanutBean said:


> I know jenni. But I hate how brainwashed people are. :growlmad: I just want to shake them into using their brains. You know it's not even just medicine it's The Expert and Research. A thread on washing new baby clothes talked of research that showed new clothes are covered in wee and poo and semen and others said they'd seen people sneeze on their hands then touch baby clothes! There was outcry and disgust. So I looked it up. Turns out it came from a US media stunt and was far from research. I looked up how long flu might live on fabric - just a few hours. So I posted this and suddenly the viability of the research is no longer the point, the fear is! Just because the thing that filled people with fear is crap and lies doesn't matter! It's the same with everything.
> 
> I hope my post makes sense about what I'm getting at!

That makes completely sense, it's like the MMR shot in reference to autism and even though it's been shown to be a complete waste of time and a hoax people are still afraid. Actually what you've just said about media bringing fear into science is one of my Hubby's biggest pet peeves. He hates when I come out with something like "No we can't do that!" but I don't have any research behind why not, just a "Well I read it on BBC this morning!" He has really pushed me to be so much knowledgeable about things I feel passionately about. We got in a huge argument in sainsbury's once because he wasn't to buy blue toilet paper and I said no it needs to be white because you should have colour in your TP. He was like why? I said I watched it on 20/20 (an american news show) He blew up at me! hahahaha. 

He also loves that Charlie Broker thing. I still haven't seen it I keep meaning to though, I really should. There's also this great book he just read about all the lies in media science. How the media takes a research project but doesn't really understand it so then writes about it but it gets taken completely out of context. Actually I'll find out the name because given your sciencey background I think you'd really like it.


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## PeanutBean

Lol jenni if I weren't working in the field I might have time to read about it! In the sci com community we go round in circles about the media. It's the fault of the headline writer; it's because sensationalism sells papers; it's because journalists don't understand science; it's because scientists don't properly explain the science; it's because journalists don't do proper research; it's because there isn't free open access to scientific literature; it's because...it's because... :dohh: But there is never any change to the endless debate. And it's not good enough.

Ben Goldacre who does Bad Science in the Guardian is quite good though as a GP he has his own biases. We natural birthers would definitely butt head's with his over some things.


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## Jenniflower

PeanutBean said:


> Lol jenni if I weren't working in the field I might have time to read about it! In the sci com community we go round in circles about the media. It's the fault of the headline writer; it's because sensationalism sells papers; it's because journalists don't understand science; it's because scientists don't properly explain the science; it's because journalists don't do proper research; it's because there isn't free open access to scientific literature; it's because...it's because... :dohh: But there is never any change to the endless debate. And it's not good enough.
> 
> Ben Goldacre who does Bad Science in the Guardian is quite good though as a GP he has his own biases. We natural birthers would definitely butt head's with his over some things.

It was Ben Goldacre I was talking about! hahaha. Here's the book DH read.


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## ellieb31

Sorry to gatecrash the thread. There's obem conversations every week and I've not joined any of yet but you seem like a rational group of people so I hope there's room here for one more!!

I'm actually giving birth at princess Anne so I see the show as good research and it has certainly made me realise that I need to have a clear picture of what I want before I go in. The odd thing is that I've done the Nhs antenatal classes in the local area and the midwives seem to advocate as natural a birth as possible within the boundaries of what each woman personally wants. The show does a very poor job of demonstrating that attitude though. It seems to me as though each week they try and make one woman look bad and silly and another woman look sensible and rational. 

I really wish that they would show more births from the midwife run unit but they do tend to prefer the labour ward (for the drama presumably). 

Have any of you seen the shows done at Portland hospital in London - if you want to shout at the tv, that's the one to watch. Almost every episode features a women being induced for convenience (like not even late but live a few hours from the hospital so want baby according to their timetable) and then they wonder why they end up having to do so many csections. I get all ranty talking about that show - my poor DH didn't know what had hit him when he caught me watching it the other day.


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## Jenniflower

ellieb31 said:


> Sorry to gatecrash the thread. There's obem conversations every week and I've not joined any of yet but you seem like a rational group of people so I hope there's room here for one more!!
> 
> I'm actually giving birth at princess Anne so I see the show as good research and it has certainly made me realise that I need to have a clear picture of what I want before I go in. The odd thing is that I've done the Nhs antenatal classes in the local area and the midwives seem to advocate as natural a birth as possible within the boundaries of what each woman personally wants. The show does a very poor job of demonstrating that attitude though. It seems to me as though each week they try and make one woman look bad and silly and another woman look sensible and rational.
> 
> I really wish that they would show more births from the midwife run unit but they do tend to prefer the labour ward (for the drama presumably).
> 
> Have any of you seen the shows done at Portland hospital in London - if you want to shout at the tv, that's the one to watch. Almost every episode features a women being induced for convenience (like not even late but live a few hours from the hospital so want baby according to their timetable) and then they wonder why they end up having to do so many csections. I get all ranty talking about that show - my poor DH didn't know what had hit him when he caught me watching it the other day.

It's interesting that you talk about your classes advocating a natural birth as that's what my classes were all about as well which seemed really great. They were even quite big advocates for getting up on your feet/knees/squatting to deliver as it works with gravity and the baby doesn't have to go up the hump on your pelvis. The problem I've been hearing is that these great midwives in my local clinic just are NOT the ones in the hospital. Because in this country you have two different types of midwives, the ones in the hospital become so hospitalized, iykwim. They become so rushed, so not every woman is a different case. They've seen so many procedures needing done that they've started think all women need them. And because I'm sure they get crap from TPTB they feel they need to be rushing these women in and out of their beds. There's no individual care like you get with your community midwife who gets to know you and your quirks. Hence why when you go into hospital all that stuff your Comm MW has taught you seems to go out the window. It's a real shame! 

I've never seem the other show you're talking about but man I don't even know if I could watch it without a shoe or something ending up in the TV!


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## PeanutBean

I'd agree with that jenni and was going to say the same. Our community mws did the classes when I was pregnant with my son and I thought they were very good at both promoting natural birthing and exploring pain relief and interventions pros and cons. Bit as you say they are not the hospital mws who clearly have a very different outlook in the experience of my birth is anything to go by.


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## special_kala

According to OBEM's FB there is a hypnobirth on this week


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## Mervs Mum

THAT will be worth me breaking my self imposed ban for! :lol:


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## Jenniflower

special_kala said:


> According to OBEM's FB there is a hypnobirth on this week

thanks for the heads up!


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## ellieb31

Did anyone watch it tonight? 

I particularly enjoyed watching the birthing pool/hypnobirthing one. I got my husband to watch it too and it was useful for him to see that spell of 'I can't do it' which a lot of women get and when birth partners need to come into there own. She was up on the midwife unit rather than the labour ward which is where I hope to be as well. I know that the mentality between the labour ward and the community midwives may be quite different but it does seem to me as though things are different on the midwife unit - the ladies rarely labour on their backs and the midwives do seem to encourage them to stay as drug free as possible but maybe I'm seeing what I want to see.


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## sugarcube84

i watched it and tbh i dont think the hypnobirth came across very well, when they interviewed her she was all all for no pain relief maybe a bit of g&a (and seemed a bit smug) then it shows her loosing it a bit in the pool and asking repeatedly for pethedine. The other hypnbirths that ive watched were very quiet calm and the ladies centered on themselves. I just hope it doesnt make people think that hypno birth doesnt work or isnt worth trying. (Not that ive ever had one!!) Again i wonder if its a case of the way it was edited, maybe that was her in transition and i missed them saying it but i was under the impression that she wasnt as far along as that .


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## Bournefree

I agree.. Just watched it on 4OD.. and I don't think it presented hypno in it's best light. Oh the powers of editing. 
I thought mum was perhaps more of a hinderance than a help too.. there was far too much talking for the hypno to be effective - IMO (though, we really didn't get to see it all) I think that she was going though that panic, and that is where you need calm from someone around you - not to be told off my your mum?>! I would have sent them all out including dad, for telling her to push hard when the MW was trying to coach her through contractions (though it's prob because I don't like coaching anyways) ;-)
XxX


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## aob1013

The woman who wanted a hypnobirth was so smug!


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## indigo_fairy

This program scares the crap outta me! Before I got pregnant I would just shout at the tv a bit, but now it just terrifies me so I figure best not to watch it at the mo! :sad2:


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## ellieb31

I've only seen a few examples of hypnobirthing and I have a friend who tried it and in those cases they all seemed smug IMO! My friend had a big argument with another friend because she was going to breath the baby out and wouldnt be doing any pushing whereas the other friend, a mum of three, said you have no choice but to push once you reach that stage. Sadly none of the hypnobirthers I've seen ended up with the births they had planned which is why I decided I didn't want to do it. I'm sure it works well for some people but I'm not convinced that it increases your chances of having a more natural birth. I definitely think it helps with early labour though. The lady yesterday looked incredibly relaxed in the early stages which I guess is better than nothing.


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## My_First

If you read the Daily Mail article in the post above it does give a stat of it 'working' for only a quarter of those who do it. That said, if it makes me slightly more relaxed than I would have been it will work for me...


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