# Wits end.....rude 4 year old help!



## rach2010

Hi, i'm at my wits end with my 4 year old daughter, and dont know what to do. Shouting and being firm with her does not work, nor does taking things away from her, even the naughty step hasnt worked, ive even tired ignoring her!

She is so rude its embaressing! She acts like a teenager, shes very moody and agressive. She talks back to me, shouts at people and ignores people when they are talking to her. If she is told off or spoken too she growls at people, and grimaces and clenches her fists! 

She is 4, she shouldnt be acting like this and i have no idea where she got it from. Me and my partner are both good natured people, both brought up well.Shes not spoilt at all, and i dont let her get her own way.
Its starting to really upset us, cus weve tried everything we can think of and again i have no idea where she got this behaviour from.

I recently had another baby (less than a week ago) and i know this is not the cause, because she has been acting like this for months, and even before i was pregnant.

Shes really bright for her age, and sometimes can be a lovely girl, but then she just flips!
She goes to a pre-school for a few hours a day during the week and they say shes an angel! so i really dont understand why she behaves like this at home. 

aaah i just want to cry :cry:


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## Serene123

I would shut her in her room, even if I had to use a stair gate, and explain that if she acts anti-socially she will be removed from where everyone else is.

:hugs:


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## strawberry19

it may be a possibility that she is picking it up from the other children at pre school, if its only started while she has been attending then it may be copying or behaving the way other children do may be worth speaking to someone there about it they can offer you advise aswell!.. i work in a nursery and we have one particular child who behaves like this and alot worse spits at you kicks punches the lot cant speak to him without him screaming no at you has a serious arttitude problem!! but the other children have started copying some at home and some at the nursery so it all really depends try to think back to when if first started and what it could of been it could be something really small but that doesnt matter you need to find a way that gets across to her that she cannot behave this way my little brother was the same and cruel as it sounds he was moved away from the situation placed in a room with no toys etc and was told he was to sit until he had calmed down and ready to say sorry.. remember persistance is the key she will soon get fed up and be ready to apologise and behave in an acceptable way... probly not much help but it is best to trry and nip it in the bud before it gets worse xx


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## TattiesMum

I agree with the others that 'time out' is your best bet ... perhaps combined with a star chart 'ladder' (so that the reward star gets moved up for good behaviour and down again for bad)

At 4 she is plenty old enough to understand the principle that bad behaviour has consequences, and the visual impact of the reward star being moved down and thus further away from her prize will help to get that message across in an immediate way :)

Make sure though that there are specific rules as to what constitutes 'bad' behaviour - ie answering back, shouting, growling. Keep it simple, start small, make sure that she fully understands the 'rules' and initially keep the 'goal' period short .... start with a single day at a time so that she gets the idea of rewards quickly.

Make the rewards small initially as well ... once she gets the idea and is improving then start to stretch the time span out a bit with correspondingly larger rewards (I am talking about small 'instant' rewards here - not trips to Disneyland btw :haha: ).

Use the time out method to re-enforce the message when dealing with really bad tantrums and aggressive behaviour - make sure that you explain why you are putting her in time out, make her apologise when she is ready to come out and hug her when she does so .... withdrawing affection isn't the plan :D

For either of these to work you have to be consistent and persistent - it's going to be hard on you for the first few days/weeks but if you backslide and let her get away with it just once then you will be right back at square one :(

Good Luck :hugs:


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## rach2010

Starting from today we have re-inforced the naughty corner and the reward ladder sounds like a good idea! we will be trying that as soon as possible. 

Thanks guys!


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## strawberry19

reward ladder works wonders we have them for some of the children at work hope it works for you!! just remember to be firm and maintain your cool children seem to like it when they see adults stressed from soemthing they have done!


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## Joslena

my 6 year old son was having bad tantrums at school and refusing to work. we were really shocked as he's such a good boy at home. His teacher initiated a reward chart and at the end of each day if he'd been good he got a star. If he got to Friday and had a star every day then he could watch a DVD at the end of the week. He loves watching the kids films like Bee movie, toy story etc so taking them away from him was a punishment. After 3 weeks his tantrums had stopped. 

The next time she is naughty take away her favourite toy and don't give her it back until she's acheived a certain amount of stars on her reward chart.

good luck!


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## rach2010

thanks guys, we went out and bought a reward chart and weve been using it for 3 days and it does seem to be working!


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## musicmummy

Well I've just been having a quick look online to see if anyone else is having a problem with their 4 year old! I'm glad I came across this - it makes me feel a lot better to know that I'm not alone.

My daughter is 4 1/2 and has been behaving terribly for the last few weeks - answering back, stampimg her feet, shouting, throwing things, arguing, moaning, whinging.... the list is endless. When she was just coming up to 3 years old she started behaving rudely and hitting and kicking and we thought it was because I was about to have another baby. When her baby sister arrived she just got worse. I felt incredibly guilty as I thought it was a reaction to the pregnancy and new baby, but as time goes on I realise it's more to do with age and growing up. It doesn't make it any easier to cope with though and I still find myself getting drawn into the argument, or shouting at her. (followed by feeling upset).

She starts school in September and I hope that having more to do will help - she seems to get bored really easily these days and needs to be entertained constantly. Either that or she just wants to stare at the TV for hours. I have been told that it's something to do with the hormone cortisol and that things will improve in time.

I have no tips for dealing with it - I'm rubbish at it - my daughter and I are too alike and end up clashing at the slightest thing. I feel that I've lost part of her (and she always used to be such a special little friend), especially since daughter no.2 came along.

There are occasional glimmers of her old self, but mostly she behaves like a 14 year old. I have noticed that during the weeks she behaves worse, she is also very tired and very hungry, so maybe it's a growth spurt?

Sorry not to be able to offer anything positive....


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## TattiesMum

rach2010 said:


> thanks guys, we went out and bought a reward chart and weve been using it for 3 days and it does seem to be working!

Yay :happydance:


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## rach2010

musicmummy said:


> Well I've just been having a quick look online to see if anyone else is having a problem with their 4 year old! I'm glad I came across this - it makes me feel a lot better to know that I'm not alone.
> 
> My daughter is 4 1/2 and has been behaving terribly for the last few weeks - answering back, stampimg her feet, shouting, throwing things, arguing, moaning, whinging.... the list is endless. When she was just coming up to 3 years old she started behaving rudely and hitting and kicking and we thought it was because I was about to have another baby. When her baby sister arrived she just got worse. I felt incredibly guilty as I thought it was a reaction to the pregnancy and new baby, but as time goes on I realise it's more to do with age and growing up. It doesn't make it any easier to cope with though and I still find myself getting drawn into the argument, or shouting at her. (followed by feeling upset).
> 
> She starts school in September and I hope that having more to do will help - she seems to get bored really easily these days and needs to be entertained constantly. Either that or she just wants to stare at the TV for hours. I have been told that it's something to do with the hormone cortisol and that things will improve in time.
> 
> I have no tips for dealing with it - I'm rubbish at it - my daughter and I are too alike and end up clashing at the slightest thing. I feel that I've lost part of her (and she always used to be such a special little friend), especially since daughter no.2 came along.
> 
> There are occasional glimmers of her old self, but mostly she behaves like a 14 year old. I have noticed that during the weeks she behaves worse, she is also very tired and very hungry, so maybe it's a growth spurt?
> 
> Sorry not to be able to offer anything positive....

i totall get what your saying. Ava is just a very intelligent little girl and part of it is her growing up and becoming her own person. I'm hoping she will calm down when she starts school in september. The reward chart has totally helped but she does seem to have anger issues, and i hate myself for saying this but she totally takes after her dad, who is not a very nice man. I had him arrested several times for domestic violence before we broke up, and she doesnt see him very often which is very sad for her. Hes a good father, but doesnt see her very often and he totally spoils her when he does and makes me look like the baddy.


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## mommy2baby2

Sounds just like my daughter! Drives me crazy! But I think most of it comes with the age and the fact that they are now becoming more independent. 

She's not always like this but definitely has her moments. You really just need to be consistent and when she's acting up get eye level with her, change your tone of voice to one that 'means it' and tell her she better cut it out before she gets in trouble. If she keeps up I'll tell her I 'm going to count to three and if I get to three she's getting a pinch. She knows at that point to cut it out. 

I understand that everyone is all against spanking their kids but there is a difference between spanking/swatting/discipline and abuse. You as the parent needs to know when to draw the line and need to know that it's not wrong. Look around at how society has become, kids and young adults are out of control, disrespectful and have that 'entitled', lazy attitude because their parents refused to discipline them beyond just saying "no". I don't know about you but I don't want my kids to end up like that or end up in jail because they think they are above the law & authority.

I mean, I don't agree with spanking your kids with belts, sticks or objects or doing it every single time they act out...There's definitely a time & place. But a swat on the butt is a definite way to show that actions have consequences and when you don't listen and don't respect those around you, there will be consequences. 

But we also do the whole Naughty Step, taking away of toys & privileges & time outs. Each situation is different, as you know, and each day she may respond more to one thing than another. 

Just my opinion.


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