# Short Luteal Phase?



## hockey24

Anyone out there have a short luteal phase? 

I have a 26 / 27 day cycle and didn't ovulate this month until atleast day 16 or 17. Is this enough time for the implantation to occur? 

If anyone out there has a short luteal phase - how many days is that? And what do you do to improve it to allow enough time for everything to do as it should?

:wacko:


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## tupi

10 days LP is good.
B6 vitamin could improve the length of LP.


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## Macwooly

A late ovulation doesn't necessarily mean a short LP you may find your LP remains the same and you have a longer cycle this time.

A longer LP is apparently preferable but I have read of ladies getting their BFPs with 10/11 day LPs so FXed for you :dust:


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## Indigo77

I had an 11/12 day LP and added 50 mgs of a B complex and it is now 13/14 days.
There is a woman here that has 3 kids and she has an 11 day LP.
Many think 10 days is fine...


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## velo

You might end up having a longer cycle this time. You can get pregnant with a 10-day LP but at least 12 is preferable. B6 and Vitex may help.


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## tulip girl

I have a similar worry! My LP if you don't count spotting is 14 days....but if you do, it's only 9! I worry that nothing will have chance to implant before the spotting begins. 

I do have another child (he's 18) but all this started way after he was born. 

Anyone else have this? I've spoken to the doc and he doesn't seem that bothered, but surely it MUST cause some problems?

:growlmad:


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## readyformore

Indigo77 said:


> I had an 11/12 day LP and added 50 mgs of a B complex and it is now 13/14 days.
> There is a woman here that has 3 kids and she has an 11 day LP.
> Many think 10 days is fine...

That's me!!! 3 kids, 11 day lp!:thumbup:


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## readyformore

tulip girl said:


> I have a similar worry! My LP if you don't count spotting is 14 days....but if you do, it's only 9! I worry that nothing will have chance to implant before the spotting begins.
> 
> I do have another child (he's 18) but all this started way after he was born.
> 
> Anyone else have this? I've spoken to the doc and he doesn't seem that bothered, but surely it MUST cause some problems?
> 
> :growlmad:

I started spotting last June. Spot starts 2 days prior to AF. With only an 11 day lp, this worried me. I spoke to my doctor because I was worried I had low progesterone (of course I have to be worried about something). She did a 7dpo progesterone check and it was 9.6 (should be 10, so I'm ok with 9.6). She's not at all concerned either.

I still am worried about it. I'm going to see my RE in August. we'll see what she says about it. I know that she didn't like my 11 day lp, but nothing she did ever lengthened it. I'm sure she won't like my spotting either.


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## hockey24

Holy cow! On one hand I hope I have a longer cycle in order to allow for ample implantation time but on the other hand, if AF is coming anyway - I'd rather just get it over with. I start pulling my hair out these last couple days as it is. :0) 

I took clomid for the first time this month so not sure what effect that has on your cycle. 

May try the B6 next month and see if that helps (unless it works this month!).


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## readyformore

hockey24 said:


> Holy cow! On one hand I hope I have a longer cycle in order to allow for ample implantation time but on the other hand, if AF is coming anyway - I'd rather just get it over with.

:thumbup: My thoughts exactly. I'm a nut job while in the 2ww. I can't imagine having an extra 3-4 days of lunacy to contend with:wacko:


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## hockey24

readyformore said:


> hockey24 said:
> 
> 
> Holy cow! On one hand I hope I have a longer cycle in order to allow for ample implantation time but on the other hand, if AF is coming anyway - I'd rather just get it over with.
> 
> :thumbup: My thoughts exactly. I'm a nut job while in the 2ww. I can't imagine having an extra 3-4 days of lunacy to contend with:wacko:Click to expand...

I'm with you! Those 2 weeks are the longest and the last couple days before I'm so on edge. 

Wishing you good luck and lots of sanity!! :thumbup:


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## crystal443

hockey24 said:


> Holy cow! On one hand I hope I have a longer cycle in order to allow for ample implantation time but on the other hand, if AF is coming anyway - I'd rather just get it over with. I start pulling my hair out these last couple days as it is. :0)
> 
> I took clomid for the first time this month so not sure what effect that has on your cycle.
> 
> May try the B6 next month and see if that helps (unless it works this month!).

Clomid made my cycles about 4 days longer..I also O'd about 4 days later then normal too:haha:


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## hockey24

crystal443 said:


> hockey24 said:
> 
> 
> Holy cow! On one hand I hope I have a longer cycle in order to allow for ample implantation time but on the other hand, if AF is coming anyway - I'd rather just get it over with. I start pulling my hair out these last couple days as it is. :0)
> 
> I took clomid for the first time this month so not sure what effect that has on your cycle.
> 
> May try the B6 next month and see if that helps (unless it works this month!).
> 
> Clomid made my cycles about 4 days longer..I also O'd about 4 days later then normal too:haha:Click to expand...

Thank you! That is good to know. I normally would have started spotting yesterday and started by this morning but no show yet. I'm holding off on getting too hopeful as I suspect the clomid may change may normal timing. 

I hope it works for all of us!:happydance:


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## Jax41

Hockey - look on the bright side at least the TWW is less!!:thumbup: I think I'm going to be the same as you this cycle....CD18 and only just finished Oing and AF is due 10th July - we'll wait and see what happens!!x


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## Macwooly

Jax41 said:


> Hockey - look on the bright side at least the TWW is less!!:thumbup: I think I'm going to be the same as you this cycle....CD18 and only just finished Oing and AF is due 10th July - we'll wait and see what happens!!x

Bet your cycle is longer although you're getting you BFP this cycle so it won't matter :thumbup:


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## Jax41

Macwooly said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> Hockey - look on the bright side at least the TWW is less!!:thumbup: I think I'm going to be the same as you this cycle....CD18 and only just finished Oing and AF is due 10th July - we'll wait and see what happens!!x
> 
> Bet your cycle is longer although you're getting you BFP this cycle so it won't matter :thumbup:Click to expand...

Oh how I wish, thank you hun :kiss: I'm sure you're right though, about the cycle being longer that is!


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## googly

Hey, yeah my LP my last 4 cycles has been 7, 7, 8, 9... started taking Vitex after the two 7s, and then B100 complex as well after the 8. So I THINK those are making a difference.

FX for 10 this cycle!


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## googly

readyformore said:


> hockey24 said:
> 
> 
> Holy cow! On one hand I hope I have a longer cycle in order to allow for ample implantation time but on the other hand, if AF is coming anyway - I'd rather just get it over with.
> 
> :thumbup: My thoughts exactly. I'm a nut job while in the 2ww. I can't imagine having an extra 3-4 days of lunacy to contend with:wacko:Click to expand...

Yeah same and same... I hang on to that as the bright side! 14 days - eesh, that must be a nightmare... potentially saves me a lot of $$$ on HPTs as well - never get that far (and if I do, it will be a good clear sign I guess!)


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## Macwooly

My last LP was 13 days so hoping this is going to be my norm :)

But I do envy you ladies with 11 day LPs as it does make for less of a 2WW :)

Googly hope the Vitamin B helps give you an extra day or 2 on your LP :thumbup:


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## Viking15

I was googling luteal phase defect and birth control. I found a link that stated the BCP causes B6 deficiency by turn causing a luteal defect. Also, claimed it should right itself by 9 months. 9 months! Who wants to wait that long! :dohh: Why don't doctor's tell you these things so you can take a little vitamin and help your body along?!? I've been off the BCP for just two full cycles right now and have been stressing about my short LPs. First one 7(!) days, second 10 days. I think I'm going to take some B6.


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## Indigo77

Viking15 said:


> I was googling luteal phase defect and birth control. I found a link that stated the BCP causes B6 deficiency by turn causing a luteal defect. Also, claimed it should right itself by 9 months. 9 months! Who wants to wait that long! :dohh: Why don't doctor's tell you these things so you can take a little vitamin and help your body along?!? I've been off the BCP for just two full cycles right now and have been stressing about my short LPs. First one 7(!) days, second 10 days. I think I'm going to take some B6.

Do try to take it along with the other B vits....a B Complex is best...


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## googly

Viking15 said:


> I was googling luteal phase defect and birth control. I found a link that stated the BCP causes B6 deficiency by turn causing a luteal defect. Also, claimed it should right itself by 9 months. 9 months! Who wants to wait that long! :dohh: Why don't doctor's tell you these things so you can take a little vitamin and help your body along?!? I've been off the BCP for just two full cycles right now and have been stressing about my short LPs. First one 7(!) days, second 10 days. I think I'm going to take some B6.

Hi Viking! 10 days on your second cycle is not bad though... a bit of B complex and you should be up to 12-14 in no time.

Interesting about BCP possibly causing LP defect, I hadn't heard that before... might account for my issues though, until 5 months ago I had been on BCP for nearly 20 years! (on and off) I guess it's to be expected that that would cause issues. 

Good luck for cycle 3!


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## googly

Indigo77 said:


> Viking15 said:
> 
> 
> I was googling luteal phase defect and birth control. I found a link that stated the BCP causes B6 deficiency by turn causing a luteal defect. Also, claimed it should right itself by 9 months. 9 months! Who wants to wait that long! :dohh: Why don't doctor's tell you these things so you can take a little vitamin and help your body along?!? I've been off the BCP for just two full cycles right now and have been stressing about my short LPs. First one 7(!) days, second 10 days. I think I'm going to take some B6.
> 
> Do try to take it along with the other B vits....a B Complex is best...Click to expand...

Yes, second this, apparently it is not good to take B6 on its own...

Indigo I just had a squiz at your chart - looks very promising eh! FX for you...


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## Viking15

Thanks for the tip! Going to buy some vitamins tomorrow! 
FXed for you Indigo! :dust:


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## Viking15

Wow! That stuff made my urine super yellow!


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## Shelley71

I wish had known that B vitamin info about BC!! Good lord, I've been off 8 months now and still have issues in that area....would have been REALLY good to know about the LP. ARGH!!


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## velo

Viking15 said:


> Wow! That stuff made my urine super yellow!

Yes B-vitamins are water soluble, so whatever your body does not need comes out in the urine :)


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## 35inMT

I have shortish LP -- 25-26 day cycle with 10 day LP. This month I took a multivitamin with all the B vitamins plus an extra 100 mg B6 per day and Day 25 of cycle :bfp:

Good luck and lots of :dust:


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## hockey24

35inMT said:


> I have shortish LP -- 25-26 day cycle with 10 day LP. This month I took a multivitamin with all the B vitamins plus an extra 100 mg B6 per day and Day 25 of cycle :bfp:
> 
> Good luck and lots of :dust:

Wow! Congrats 35inMT! That is fantastic!!! :happydance: And good to know regarding the 10 day LP. I was concerned that it could be too short but sounds like it was a winner for you. 

Wishing you a happy and easy 9 months!!


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## googly

35inMT said:


> I have shortish LP -- 25-26 day cycle with 10 day LP. This month I took a multivitamin with all the B vitamins plus an extra 100 mg B6 per day and Day 25 of cycle :bfp:
> 
> Good luck and lots of :dust:

That's awesome, congratulations!! All the best for a happy/healthy 9 months...

I must say, it is good to hear it is possible with short(er) LPs...


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## cissyhope

Just to say good luck to all :flower: after lots of tx which was unsuccessful and one mc :(:(:(,i worked out i had a short LP (no thanks to docs) and started taking angus castus,B50 complex and progesterone and got my beautiful baby boy :cloud9: the consultant didn't believe it was any thing to do with progesterone :dohh: what do they know :wacko: i had a progesterone test 7 days after ovulation and straight after the test i started the progesterone and got my bfp, any how a few weeks later the test came back that i hadn't ovulated!!! :wacko: :haha: they reckon i got my dates wrong :roll: but the proof is in the pudding so they say :haha: any way if you have followed this so far,well done :haha: i just wanted to share and hopefully it will give some hope out to all ttc with short LP. Good luck again. Oh and im about to try for baby number 2 so wish me luck too xxx


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## googly

cissyhope said:


> Just to say good luck to all :flower: after lots of tx which was unsuccessful and one mc :(:(:(,i worked out i had a short LP (no thanks to docs) and started taking angus castus,B50 complex and progesterone and got my beautiful baby boy :cloud9: the consultant didn't believe it was any think to do with progesterone :dohh: what do they know :wacko: i had a progesterone test 7 days after ovulation and straight after the test i started the progesterone and got my bfp any how a few weeks later the test came back that i hadn't ovulated!!! :wacko: :haha: they reckon i got my dates wrong :roll: but the proof is in the pudding so they say :haha: any way if you have followed this so far,well done :haha: i just wanted to share and hopefully it will give some hope out to all ttc with sort LP. Good luck again. Oh and im about to try for baby number 2 so wish me luck too xxx

Thanks cissyhope, that's really good to hear! What kind of progesterone did you take, and how much? (and for how long?)

I don't trust my doc... She of "all luteal phases ate 14 days" - ! - so I want to be armed with as much knowledge as possible.


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## cissyhope

Hi googly

I started taking cyclogest 7 days after i had ovulated (using a marvelous machine,clearblue) the reason i didnt start taking them straight after ovulating,was because i had a progesterone test,which was done 7 dpo and i started taking them straight after the test.I think its better to take straight after ovulating? not sure,i need to find out again now.I just need to ovulate at the moment,im on day 19 and still no show :wacko:
I took cyclogest twice a day,though the back door iykwim :blush: :haha: morning and night until the 12 week of my pregnancy. Although my consultant reckoned i could have stopped earlier,but then he didn't think my pregnancy was any thing to do with progesterone? ](*,) Who knows what did the trick in the end,as i was doing all sorts to maximise my chances, including taking a short course of vit d orally as well as all the other stuff i mentioned in my last post,however the fact that i was pregnant when the result came back from the test saying i hadn't ovulated,suggests to me that i must have been very low on progesterone? and the fact i took cyclogest straight after the test?! the doc i spoke to who did the test reckoned i got my dates wrong??? but i know when i ovulated and i said the proof was my Lo :dohh: Any way i just think a lot of docs treat you in one set way and to deviate from that, takes time and money which they haven't got so alot of times its down to the individual to investigate and learn :roll: sorry for the waffle and i hope iv answered your question ok. iv got to start all the tedious researching again now as although my lo is very young,im know spring chicken lo xxx


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## googly

Answered it exactly, thanks heaps cissyhope!


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## cissyhope

Pleasure :flower: its really good to chat with people going through similar journeys. Where are at in your journey? x


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## BabyDreamz...

hockey24 said:


> Anyone out there have a short luteal phase?
> 
> I have a 26 / 27 day cycle and didn't ovulate this month until atleast day 16 or 17. Is this enough time for the implantation to occur?
> 
> If anyone out there has a short luteal phase - how many days is that? And what do you do to improve it to allow enough time for everything to do as it should?
> 
> :wacko:



Before I started on Clomid, my cycles ranged from 24 to 27 days. Upon getting on Clomid, my cycles were 28, 30, and 29 days---it actually extended my leutal phase as I ovulate around day 12 or 13. I know some doctors put women on Clomid for Leutal Phase Defect. On injectables though my leutal phase was 13 days for the most part, with one cycle it being 14 days. Leutal phases less than 10 days are not good, but you should be fine. Hope that helps!:winkwink:


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## googly

cissyhope said:


> Pleasure :flower: its really good to chat with people going through similar journeys. Where are at in your journey? x

Hi cissyhope, well, we've been ttc #1 for 5 cycles - me, 37, OH, 35 - and I wouldn't be soooo concerned about the 5 cycles if it wasn't for the fact I've noticed that I have a very short LP of 7-9 days. So that's not ideal! Seems to be more at the 9 days now since I've been taking vitex and B100 complex, but I would obviously really like/need to get it over 10 days (and preferably 12+).

At 9 dpo right now, feeling a bit AF-ish, but not major... so we'll see...

Just really looking for any options to extend that LP, and/or treat the cause. The doctor that I've been to see so far is friggin useless! But I will be looking to step that up next month and go and see a different doctor, and preferably force a trip to a FS. Just cos - at my age, I don't want to mess around! Would prefer to do it 'naturally', but I'm not against drugs if need be...!

So with the progesterone you took, did you self prescribe? Or the doc gave it to you? I've ordered some progesterone cream, I'm toying with whether I'd take that on my own accord next cycle if no better solutions from docs...

Best of luck with your trying for #2!


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## cissyhope

goggly

Thank you :flower: 

Yes think my LP was 8 to 9 days. Initially after ttc for a while,we got checked out and found my oh had low sperm so was told that it was doubtful we would conceive naturally and went down the route of ivf. 3 unsuccessful cycles and one Mc,we had enough :( Thats when i started looking at myself and worked out that i had a short Lp so because i had some progesterone left over from ivf,i decided to try it and hey presto :shock: BFP :dust:
Im 38 now so understand the desire to hurry up.I just wished that i had got in tune with my own body years ago instead of trusting doctors to help us
Good luck :flower: i will be looking for your good news in the very near future x


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## googly

That's so encouraging cissyhope, good to hear your story and that it can be done. I'm convinced progesterone is my problem... Will give the docs a chance to investigate first but I'm less than convinced by them so far and am prepared to figure it out by myself!

One small irony I have - my father is an endocrinologist - I really really don't want to tell my parents we are ttc but at some stage I may have to put that aside and ask him what he thinks. Have way more faith in him than my GPs! Just don't like the ideal of discussing my CM and other stuff like that with my father!! :D


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## cissyhope

Omg googly :haha: i think you should waste no more time and speak to ya dad! :haha: :blush: xxx


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## NorthStar

My normal luteal phase if 15/16 days but I'm an early ovulator (CD10/CD12), and I've found that maybe Evening Primrose Oil has made me O later last month and have a shorter LP!

Was a bit of a disaster to be honest, anyway I took it again this month and didn't O til CD18, now on CD25 and anxiously symptom spotting for AF early arrival. Needless to say if it comes early this month the EPO will not be part of my regime next cycle. I'm not 100% sure it was the EPO as there maybe have been some residual BCP in my system though.

So supplements can have good or bad effect, and everyone is different, I'll see what the results are this month but I might be supplement free next time!


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## Macwooly

Sounds like a good plan Northstar :thumbup:

I really don't know what my LP or O day would be off EPO as I started it so long ago and before TTC :shrug: 

But you're right everyone is different and sometimes it takes a cycle or 2 to learn what does or doesn't work for you which in itself is frustrating when TTC over 35 :)

I'm keeping all crossed that AF leave you alone for the next 9 months :dust:


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## NorthStar

Cheers Macwooly, I've had other positive effects of the EPO which is why I'm giving it a chance again this cycle, as you said it is about finding a balance and what works for me.
And I can't be sure it was EPO or BCP last month, whereas this month EPO is the only factor.

What I might even do is stop taking it a bit earlier in the cycle, and hopefully it will still give the benefits without affecting other stuff like o date and LP. I've never had an 8 day LP before it's been more like 16 days (which is quite a long wait!) until last month


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## googly

cissyhope said:


> Omg googly :haha: i think you should waste no more time and speak to ya dad! :haha: :blush: xxx

I know, but I can't tell you how much I DON'T want to do that! We're a very straight english family dontcha know... it would just be - weird... :nope:

So I'm going to call that Plan B at the moment! Or C, D, E, F.... 

However, at some point I may have to suck it up. He does always joke about how many women he's knocked up :D (in a professional capacity of course!)

It may not be the easiest to see him anyway, he's in England, I live in New Zealand. So he wouldn't be able to order tests, prescribe drugs etc for me...

I'll stick with vitex / b100 / acupunture for now. Acupuncture is going to be my new thing this cycle, am excited for my first session next week!


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## googly

NorthStar said:


> Cheers Macwooly, I've had other positive effects of the EPO which is why I'm giving it a chance again this cycle, as you said it is about finding a balance and what works for me.
> And I can't be sure it was EPO or BCP last month, whereas this month EPO is the only factor.
> 
> What I might even do is stop taking it a bit earlier in the cycle, and hopefully it will still give the benefits without affecting other stuff like o date and LP. I've never had an 8 day LP before it's been more like 16 days (which is quite a long wait!) until last month

I'm divided on EPO now after reading a few of you talking about it lengthening O date... is that the consensus? Because I don't want that, I'm trying to bring mine forward if anything. 

I did find EPO awesome for giving me decent EWCM for nearly 10 days straight, but then I didn't have BAD EWCM before, and in fact, it always used to be a very good predictor of ov (whereas now not so much). Maybe I'll go back to au naturelle in that department... 

Always a +ve and -ve eh!


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## spacegirl

Worry not girls...read this:

https://www.babyandbump.com/trying-...-upset-short-leutal-phase-11-days-can-do.html

Mine was a 9-11 LP and I got pregnant at 35 in 6 months...

HTH x


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## Cypress

Hi everyone - I'm new to the thread, just wanted to say thanks for sharing all your experiences and thoughts on this issue, all very helpful.

May I ask your opinion on something? I have had luteal phase of 9 days, then started taking B6 and it went to 11, then 12 days.
However, this cycle I haven't ov'd until CD 19/20, so my luteal phase may only be 7 days (unless the whole cycle is longer than normal)! (This may be because it's only my second cycle post-mc, and also at the start of the cycle a scan showed a corpus luteum cyst in one ovary - argghh. Also I was taking EPO for the first time, maybe that was a mistake.)

My question is, if all goes well and a fertilised egg results, does anyone know of any way to speed up implantation (from the journey of egg through tubes to uterus and implanting)? For example, would progesterone cream be of any use? If there's a fertilised egg, but it doesn't implant within 7 days, it may just get flushed away....

Thanks in advance and good luck to everyone


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## Suki73

I don't think there is any way to speed up implantation -think the conceptus takes its own time. Regarding progesterone, I'm sure all it could do would be to supplement your own natural luteal progesterone and possibly delay the breakdown of the endometrium. But some of the other ladies on here would know much more than I do about supplementing with progesterone as I think some of them have done it. 

From what I know aggessively supplementing with vitamin B6 can sometimes lengthen luteal phase length. My feeling is that unless your ovulation takes AGES to come on you're better off waiting for it to happen naturally and trying to lengthen your luteal phase length. EPO and B6 might work against each other in this way. 

If you're concerned about a defect I would contact a fertility specialist and get serious about having it corrected. 

Either way I hope you get your BFP very soon! :)


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## Cypress

Thanks so much Suki, I hope you get your BFP soon too!
I have raised my concerns about short luteal phase with both my GP and fertility specialist - but both pooh-poohed the idea that a short luteal phase could negatively affect conception, basically saying 'if conception is meant to happen it will happen'. They seemed totally resistant to the idea that a fertilised egg could get flushed away prematurely.


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## Suki73

Cypress said:


> Thanks so much Suki, I hope you get your BFP soon too!
> I have raised my concerns about short luteal phase with both my GP and fertility specialist - but both pooh-poohed the idea that a short luteal phase could negatively affect conception, basically saying 'if conception is meant to happen it will happen'. They seemed totally resistant to the idea that a fertilised egg could get flushed away prematurely.

:growlmad::growlmad: Ok, it may be my severe PMS but this kind of thing makes me so angry!!!!!! 

'if conception is meant to happen it will happen"????? WTF??? :shrug:

That basically means the whole of fertility medicine is a waste of time?? If conception was just "meant" to happen there would be no interventions like IUI or IVF or anything!!!!!

You have a right to have your concerns listened to and taken seriously. If your luteal phase is shorter than about 9 days it might well be involved in a failure to conceive or maintain a conceptus. And the stupid thing is that from everything I've read a luteal phase defect is one of the easiest things to correct. 

If you are not happy with the advice you're receiving - or your doctor's attitude - you should definitely seek a second opinion.


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## Macwooly

Suki73 said:


> Cypress said:
> 
> 
> Thanks so much Suki, I hope you get your BFP soon too!
> I have raised my concerns about short luteal phase with both my GP and fertility specialist - but both pooh-poohed the idea that a short luteal phase could negatively affect conception, basically saying 'if conception is meant to happen it will happen'. They seemed totally resistant to the idea that a fertilised egg could get flushed away prematurely.
> 
> :growlmad::growlmad: Ok, it may be my severe PMS but this kind of thing makes me so angry!!!!!!
> 
> 'if conception is meant to happen it will happen"????? WTF??? :shrug:
> 
> That basically means the whole of fertility medicine is a waste of time?? If conception was just "meant" to happen there would be no interventions like IUI or IVF or anything!!!!!
> 
> You have a right to have your concerns listened to and taken seriously. If your luteal phase is shorter than about 9 days it might well be involved in a failure to conceive or maintain a conceptus. And the stupid thing is that from everything I've read a luteal phase defect is one of the easiest things to correct.
> 
> If you are not happy with the advice you're receiving - or your doctor's attitude - you should definitely seek a second opinion.Click to expand...

I agree with Suki totally :thumbup:


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## Cypress

Yes I agree with Suki too. After having the LP issue dismissed by my GP, the fertility specialist _was_ my second opinion, and she dismissed it as well - and I don't know who else to speak to in the medical world. So I turned to ... the internet! Vit B6 was working in past cycles, but unfortunately not my current one. I guess the only thing to do is to let it run its course, but if there was a way to give the potentially fertilised egg more of a chance, I'd try it.

Does anyone have any experience, recommendations or thoughts regarding progesterone or vitex at this stage in my cycle (a day or two past ov), to lengthen the luteal phase to give implantation a fighting chance?


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## NorthStar

OK ladies, I had another shorter LP on EPO check out my findings in this thread
https://www.babyandbump.com/trying-conceive-over-35/675687-my-evening-primrose-oil-findings-good-bad-ugly.html


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## googly

Cypress said:


> Yes I agree with Suki too. After having the LP issue dismissed by my GP, the fertility specialist _was_ my second opinion, and she dismissed it as well - and I don't know who else to speak to in the medical world. So I turned to ... the internet! Vit B6 was working in past cycles, but unfortunately not my current one. I guess the only thing to do is to let it run its course, but if there was a way to give the potentially fertilised egg more of a chance, I'd try it.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience, recommendations or thoughts regarding progesterone or vitex at this stage in my cycle (a day or two past ov), to lengthen the luteal phase to give implantation a fighting chance?

Hi cypress, I'm struggling with the same question myself. Vitex won't help in the short term I don't think - from everything I've read you need to take that long term for it to have full effect, like > 3 months ideally. Progesterone may help IF your problem is you have a progesterone deficiency. I've seen mixed reviews on the topical application of prog. cream/lotion, I think ideally if you have found you have low progesterone, vaginal suppositories are the way to go (higher dose, closer to the required source!)

(Oh and you can continue with any B6/B-complex supplements - by all accounts they are still more than safe/still have an effect into the LP...)

Good luck...


----------



## googly

So I have a question for any LP experts! I got my blood test results back today and they're all at normal levels, including progesterone. Yet my LP is still 7-9 days.... I really thought that it would show low progesterone as that seems to be the cause of most LP defects. Anyone know of any other reasons for LP defect?? Non progesterone related?

My prog. at 4dpo was 24.9 nmol/L... usually get a decent 0.5 deg C temperature rise after OV, but it just tails off quickly at 6 or 7 dpo. I'm happy my progesterone is ok, but kind of bummed as well because I wanted an answer and something I could 'fix' relatively easily.

Grateful for any suggestions...


----------



## Indigo77

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/254934-overview#a0104


----------



## Cypress

Hi Googly and thanks for your input on my question. I'm now using progesterone cream, 1/2 tsp twice a day (says 1/4 tsp = 22mg of progesterone, so I'm using 88gm per day). I know it's a lower dosage than the suppositories, but when I tried to get progesterone from my GP for short luteal phase he didn't agree to it, so I'm on my own.

With regards to causes of LPD, you've probably seen this article but I'll post it in case you haven't. Unfortunately the article is not clear what the cure for the third cause is.

https://www.babyhopes.com/articles/luteal-phase-defect.html
"1.Poor follicle production occurs in the first half of the cycle. In this case, the woman may not produce a normal level of FSH, or her ovaries do not respond strongly to the FSH, leading to inadequate follicle development. Because the follicle ultimately becomes the corpus luteum, poor follicle formation leads to poor corpus luteum quality. In turn, a poor corpus luteum will produce inadequate progesterone, causing the uterine lining to be adequately prepared for the implantation of a fertilized embryo. Ultimately progesterone levels may drop early and menses will arrive sooner than expected resulting in luteal phase defect.
2.Premature failure of the corpus luteum can occur even when the initial quality of the follicle/corpus luteum is adequate. In some women the corpus luteum sometimes does not persist as long as it should. Here, initial progesterone levels at five to seven days past ovulation may be low; even if they are adequate, the levels drop precipitously soon thereafter, again leading to early onset of menses and hence a luteal phase defect.
3.Failure of the uterine lining to respond can occur even in the presence of adequate follicle development and a corpus luteum that persists for the appropriate length of time. In this condition, the uterine lining does not respond to normal levels of progesterone. Therefore, if an embryo arrives and tries to implant in the uterus, the uterine lining will not be adequately prepared, and the implantation will most likely fail."


----------



## 37Hopeful

I have a question: What is a short luteal phase and how can it impact pregnancy?


----------



## googly

Cypress said:


> Hi Googly and thanks for your input on my question. I'm now using progesterone cream, 1/2 tsp twice a day (says 1/4 tsp = 22mg of progesterone, so I'm using 88gm per day). I know it's a lower dosage than the suppositories, but when I tried to get progesterone from my GP for short luteal phase he didn't agree to it, so I'm on my own.
> 
> With regards to causes of LPD, you've probably seen this article but I'll post it in case you haven't. Unfortunately the article is not clear what the cure for the third cause is.
> 
> https://www.babyhopes.com/articles/luteal-phase-defect.html
> "1.Poor follicle production occurs in the first half of the cycle. In this case, the woman may not produce a normal level of FSH, or her ovaries do not respond strongly to the FSH, leading to inadequate follicle development. Because the follicle ultimately becomes the corpus luteum, poor follicle formation leads to poor corpus luteum quality. In turn, a poor corpus luteum will produce inadequate progesterone, causing the uterine lining to be adequately prepared for the implantation of a fertilized embryo. Ultimately progesterone levels may drop early and menses will arrive sooner than expected resulting in luteal phase defect.
> 2.Premature failure of the corpus luteum can occur even when the initial quality of the follicle/corpus luteum is adequate. In some women the corpus luteum sometimes does not persist as long as it should. Here, initial progesterone levels at five to seven days past ovulation may be low; even if they are adequate, the levels drop precipitously soon thereafter, again leading to early onset of menses and hence a luteal phase defect.
> 3.Failure of the uterine lining to respond can occur even in the presence of adequate follicle development and a corpus luteum that persists for the appropriate length of time. In this condition, the uterine lining does not respond to normal levels of progesterone. Therefore, if an embryo arrives and tries to implant in the uterus, the uterine lining will not be adequately prepared, and the implantation will most likely fail."

Hi cypress, thanks, yeah I'm thinking its something towards the third one since it seems my progesterone levels are normal. Maaaybe the second one if there is something causing them to drop precipitously suddenly. Gahh, seems like it's getting into 'obscure' territory! Need to get to the FS...


----------



## googly

37Hopeful said:


> I have a question: What is a short luteal phase and how can it impact pregnancy?

Hi Hopeful - there's a big question! So a luteal phase (LP) (the time from the day after ovulation, until AF) is for most women around 14 days. 'Short', is I guess anything under that, especially 10-12. 'Defect' seems to be anything under 10 days.

The reason it can be a problem is that it sometimes doesn't provide adequate time for a fertilised egg to implant in the endometrium (usually between 6-10 days). 

That's not to say it's impossible though, or even that hard - there's maaaany many examples of people on this site who have conceived with LPs of under 12, and quite a few with LPs under 10 even. It just makes it a little harder/doesn't provide THE most optimal conditions for things to happen (especially the sub-10 days group).

There's ways around it though... B vitamin complex seems to be helpful to a lot of women. Progesterone supplements, other bits and pieces...


----------



## Viking15

I'm waiting to report about the B complex still. So far so good! No BDing this month due to medical procedure :( so I should definitely be able to tell you ladies what happens.


----------



## LancyLass

Hi Ladies. For those who've tried Vit B6, did you just start taking it or did you see your Doc first?
I've only been charting a couple of months, but I appear to have a short luteal phase (7 days last month, 9 this month). Went to GP this morning to ask about taking vit B6 and she'd never heard of it - said she thought it sounded more like an old wives tale! She also didn't seem to be aware that a short luteal phase is a problem. Got an appt next week with another doc in the practice who is more of a expert in family planning matters.
I'm worried that if 2nd Doc is equally dismissive, then if I start taking B6 I'll be going against their advice - so wondering whether to just cancel the appointment and start taking it anyway. What do you reckon?!
I know 2 months isn't long to come to a conclusion about LP length, but at age 37, who's got time to hang around and "wait and see" - if there is something I can do that might help and won't harm, I want to try it!

https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/3597c4
(P.S. This is my first post on BnB. How do you get those pretty pictures when you post your FF chart? Have people created a pic themselves?)


----------



## LancyLass

Ooops, ignore my P.S. about the FF thing. Have found the answer myself! :dohh:


https://www.fertilityfriend.com/ticker/3597c4/ttc.png


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> Hi Ladies. For those who've tried Vit B6, did you just start taking it or did you see your Doc first?
> I've only been charting a couple of months, but I appear to have a short luteal phase (7 days last month, 9 this month). Went to GP this morning to ask about taking vit B6 and she'd never heard of it - said she thought it sounded more like an old wives tale! She also didn't seem to be aware that a short luteal phase is a problem. Got an appt next week with another doc in the practice who is more of a expert in family planning matters.
> I'm worried that if 2nd Doc is equally dismissive, then if I start taking B6 I'll be going against their advice - so wondering whether to just cancel the appointment and start taking it anyway. What do you reckon?!
> I know 2 months isn't long to come to a conclusion about LP length, but at age 37, who's got time to hang around and "wait and see" - if there is something I can do that might help and won't harm, I want to try it!
> 
> https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/3597c4
> (P.S. This is my first post on BnB. How do you get those pretty pictures when you post your FF chart? Have people created a pic themselves?)

Hi LancyLass! Sounds like a similar experience to a lot of us here... some GPs unfortunately don't have a clue (mine claimed all women's LPs were 14 days -- whatevs!) It would definitely be worth trying to see another doc - or more until you get one who knows what they're taking about. The second one I went to was much better...

With regard to the B6/B-complex - it's perfectly safe to take - loads and loads of women on this thread alone have been taking it, many with lots of success in lengthening their LPs. You do sometimes have to do a bit of trial and error on the dosage - 50mg is fine for some, others are better on 100 or 150. I take 100mg. But yeah, from what I understand it's hard to actually 'overdose' on it, because you pee out whatever you don't use/need - hence the luminous wee some people get!!

Good luck with it anyway! My LP is only 9 days too... I might have gone as far as I can with B-complex now :-\ might need something a bit stronger.


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> Ooops, ignore my P.S. about the FF thing. Have found the answer myself! :dohh:
> 
> 
> https://www.fertilityfriend.com/ticker/3597c4/ttc.png

Ha, cute!


----------



## LancyLass

Can anyone tell me... is having a short luteal phase ALWAYS a problem, or only sometimes? I've read some people posting that their temps dropped during the luteal phase so indicating progesterone dropping. Mine stays high until AF comes and then it drops. Is that a good sign? Or a bad sign because it means it's something more serious causing it??


----------



## Viking15

Hi Ladies, I jus wanted to give a progress report on my LP and vitamin B6. My past two LPs were 7 days and 10 days so I was worried and started looking for help. As I have posted before (I'm not sure where) I read that LP defect is linked by some to the BCP. The info I found claimed that BCP caused the body to become vitamin B deficient. I had just come off of BCP, so I decided to supplement vitamin B and see how it goes. 
This month I'm 12 dpo and still no AF. As I posted earlier in the thread no BDing this month due to a medical procedure, so no BFP to monkey with the outcome this month. My temp dropped below my CL yesterday, but popped back up today. I just thought there would be someone out there that might want to know. 
I've been taking Spring Valley brand Super B-Complex purchased at Walmart. 
Contains:
C 150 mg
B1 100 mg
B2 20 mg
B3 25 mg
B6 2 mg
Folic acid 400 mcg
B12 15mcg
Biotin 3.8 mcg
Pantothenic acid 5 mg 

May be a one off, but I am optimistic.


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> Can anyone tell me... is having a short luteal phase ALWAYS a problem, or only sometimes? I've read some people posting that their temps dropped during the luteal phase so indicating progesterone dropping. Mine stays high until AF comes and then it drops. Is that a good sign? Or a bad sign because it means it's something more serious causing it??

I think only sometimes a problem... because there are examples - on this site - of women who have conceived with short LPs, some less than 10 days even. But it definitely doesn't make it easy... and if you can find a cause, and/or lengthen it, your chances are going to go up.

With regard to your specific questions about temps - I don't know sorry, I wish I did! Mine also stay high - and my progesterone levels have been measured as being pretty good at that time, but then they drop at around 6-7 DPO, and never really recover - AF comes on 9 DPO. So that's what I'm looking for, an explanation as to why you would have good progesterone levels/temps, but then they suddenly die off. I've read a lot of definitions of LP defect and it definitely includes that as a symptom.... but never really gives a clear explanation of cause - except maybe 'inadequate follicle development' in the follicular phase... but that is more usually associated with LOW progesterone levels throughout. So that doesn't quite cover it. There's also things about the endometrium not being prepared properly... but not a lot of detail on that. You have to have a more invasive test for that I believe. 

So - I will continue to research on and off - will let you know if anything turns up! I'm really just hoping something magically changes in my cycle :haha:


----------



## googly

Viking15 said:


> Hi Ladies, I jus wanted to give a progress report on my LP and vitamin B6. My past two LPs were 7 days and 10 days so I was worried and started looking for help. As I have posted before (I'm not sure where) I read that LP defect is linked by some to the BCP. The info I found claimed that BCP caused the body to become vitamin B deficient. I had just come off of BCP, so I decided to supplement vitamin B and see how it goes.
> This month I'm 12 dpo and still no AF. As I posted earlier in the thread no BDing this month due to a medical procedure, so no BFP to monkey with the outcome this month. My temp dropped below my CL yesterday, but popped back up today. I just thought there would be someone out there that might want to know.
> I've been taking Spring Valley brand Super B-Complex purchased at Walmart.
> Contains:
> C 150 mg
> B1 100 mg
> B2 20 mg
> B3 25 mg
> B6 2 mg
> Folic acid 400 mcg
> B12 15mcg
> Biotin 3.8 mcg
> Pantothenic acid 5 mg
> 
> May be a one off, but I am optimistic.

Hi Viking - is that really 2 mg of B6, or is it supposed to be 20, or even 200? I take 100mg... so 2 seems quite a low dose of B6!


----------



## Viking15

It is just 2 mg of B6. Weird, but I was recommended a B complex. That is what I found. I'm also taking a prescription prenatal. I don't know what is in that. I might be able to research it though.


----------



## Viking15

I'm taking Zantean-pn for my prescription prenatal. I had no luck tracking down it's contents.


----------



## LancyLass

Viking15 said:


> It is just 2 mg of B6. Weird, but I was recommended a B complex. That is what I found. I'm also taking a prescription prenatal. I don't know what is in that. I might be able to research it though.

You can get B Complexes with different amounts of Vits - I've started investigating myself. This info might not help you that much as I see you're in the US but... There seem to be "standard" B Complexes, such as the branded Berocca, which are intended for energy levels and they only have v low amounts of B6 - like your 2mg. Holland and Barratt have B complexes with different levels of Vit B in - there's a "50" option, which has 50mg of everything and a "100" option (which has 100mg of everything). These ones also have the recommended 400 mcg of folic acid too so you don't have to take that separately. So it looks like these are the ones designed for ladies TTC.


----------



## LancyLass

BTW, at what point during your cycles did you ladies start taking your B Complexes? I've got my 2nd docs appointment tomorrow, but I think I'm going to start taking the B whatever she says (naughty!) but I'm on CD8 at the moment. Does it need a month or two to get into your system and take effect (like folic acid - they say it takes a couple of months for it to build up in your system to the effective levels).


----------



## Viking15

LancyLass said:


> BTW, at what point during your cycles did you ladies start taking your B Complexes? I've got my 2nd docs appointment tomorrow, but I think I'm going to start taking the B whatever she says (naughty!) but I'm on CD8 at the moment. Does it need a month or two to get into your system and take effect (like folic acid - they say it takes a couple of months for it to build up in your system to the effective levels).

I started taking it near the beginning of my cycle. Probably July 2 or 3rd. I don't think it's naughty to take B complex. :muaha:


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> BTW, at what point during your cycles did you ladies start taking your B Complexes? I've got my 2nd docs appointment tomorrow, but I think I'm going to start taking the B whatever she says (naughty!) but I'm on CD8 at the moment. Does it need a month or two to get into your system and take effect (like folic acid - they say it takes a couple of months for it to build up in your system to the effective levels).

I take it all the way through - with just a few days off during AF (when I stop taking everything to give my body a bit of a break).

I'm not sure about whether it needs to build up in the system or not... I would think not? Since things like Berocca are marketed to give you an 'instant' boost - ?


----------



## LancyLass

Thought I'd report back on my docs visit...
She couldn't find any information or advice from the clinical fertility advisory people in the UK about Vit B6, but said there's no harm trying it if I want to.
Apparently short luteal phase isn't necessarily a problem - it used to be thought it was a problem, but in clinical trials no less women with short luteal phases got pg than those without. However it can be indicative of a problem and that's where the tests come in to check.
It's looking hopeful for me on the progesterone front because my temp stays up until after AF starts, but she's going to do the "21 day" test (but at both 14 and 21 days, because of my irregular cycle) to check. Then going to do the tests at the beginning of the cycle (for FSH and LH I think, can't quite remember) to check the bits that stimulate ovulation are working.
Think I'll give it until next cycle before trying the Vit B, seeing as the outlook isn't as hopeless as I thought - I don't like taking supplements unless I have to (I'm a bit of a chicken!)


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> Thought I'd report back on my docs visit...
> She couldn't find any information or advice from the clinical fertility advisory people in the UK about Vit B6, but said there's no harm trying it if I want to.
> Apparently short luteal phase isn't necessarily a problem - it used to be thought it was a problem, but in clinical trials no less women with short luteal phases got pg than those without. However it can be indicative of a problem and that's where the tests come in to check.
> It's looking hopeful for me on the progesterone front because my temp stays up until after AF starts, but she's going to do the "21 day" test (but at both 14 and 21 days, because of my irregular cycle) to check. Then going to do the tests at the beginning of the cycle (for FSH and LH I think, can't quite remember) to check the bits that stimulate ovulation are working.
> Think I'll give it until next cycle before trying the Vit B, seeing as the outlook isn't as hopeless as I thought - I don't like taking supplements unless I have to (I'm a bit of a chicken!)

Interesting LancyLass... I hope your doc is right re short LPs! My doc also didn't think it was too much of a problem. But -- they seem to be a minority unfortunately -- I've read a fair bit about it online and most people DO say it's an issue under 10 days... so I still want to do everything I can to increase mine.

Have done 3 x acupuncture this cycle, and going to try homeopathic progesterone drops through this LP to see if it makes a difference. Failing that, I have a FS appt in a couple of weeks, hoping to get the full work out of tests done. If no improvement in 2-3 cycles more, my next plan is soy... (unless the FS recommends clomid or something). I'm still pretty optimistic I have options and something will work eventually.


----------



## LancyLass

googly said:


> Interesting LancyLass... I hope your doc is right re short LPs! My doc also didn't think it was too much of a problem. But -- they seem to be a minority unfortunately -- I've read a fair bit about it online and most people DO say it's an issue under 10 days... so I still want to do everything I can to increase mine.

I wonder whether the stuff on the internet is misrepresentative of the actual facts. It's mainly people who DO have a problem with it who will be online talking about it or offering advice about it. But you're right, it's worth doing everything poss to try to increase it - it can't do any harm!


----------



## googly

So an update on my quest to increase my 9 day LP! This cycle from 1 dpo onwards I used micronised progesterone cream x 2 daily, and 10 x drops homeopathic progesterone x 3 daily - hoping the increased progesterone might lengthen the LP.

The result? a 7-day LP ](*,)](*,)](*,)

Sooo, yeah. I don't think progesterone cream or homeopathic progesterone is all that effective.

I have also been on vitex and 100mg vitamin B complex for 3 months now, and haven't seen any improvement from those... So.....

Ahh well, onwards and upwards. FS on Wednesday. I'm really pinning a lot of my hopes on him now!


----------



## NorthStar

One of my friends on the main forum told me that vitamin B6 shortened her LP down to 8 days, so it may not be the answer for everyone - sorry don't want to rain on your parade.

I'm 8DPO and the temp plummeted below the coverline, so the EPO has upset my cycle again by knocking 8 days off my LP - have written about this in detail on my EPO thread.

EPO goes in the bin today and I'm back on the pill for a week or so to try and align my cycle dates with my OH's work schedule, I'm done with vitamins and back to folic acid only, it sucks as there was nothing wrong with my LP/cycle in the first place so I'm urging caution in the use of supplements....


----------



## googly

Yeah I'm going completely natural this cycle... Only folic acid/multi-vitamin for me.


----------



## NorthStar

Me too, I wish I'd never started messing with supplements in the first place as there was nothing wrong with my cycle which was 11FP/16LP = 27 days, I think it was just trying to increase the odds and it didn't, it decreased them!

Then I got stuck in the cycle of early AF/having to take EPO again to delay O until my partner got home!


----------



## googly

NorthStar said:


> Me too, I wish I'd never started messing with supplements in the first place as there was nothing wrong with my cycle which was 11FP/16LP = 27 days, I think it was just trying to increase the odds and it didn't, it decreased them!
> 
> Then I got stuck in the cycle of early AF/having to take EPO again to delay O until my partner got home!

Yeah that's tough... Have the docs offered you any way to delay/speed up timing to coincide with your DH?


----------



## NorthStar

All that is on offer is the pill really, there is nothing technically wrong with my cycle just that my OH works away 2 weeks out of 4.

We've only been trying a few months but it's been stressful every single one of them wondering if he will be home in time to catch the egg, that when I hear people with partners in regular jobs moaning I'm pretty much grinding my teeth.

Doc said to come back in 6 months if not pg so another couple of months of this crap and I can go back I guess, since I have a regular cycle she is unwilling to mess with it at this stage.


----------



## googly

Blimey. Yeah the ttc thing is hard enough in the first place without that stress! 

My partner is around most of the time so that's cool, but in my case my body seems to be letting me down a bit - can't seem to improve on 9 days for LP, and I really don't think that's going to get it done for us - even if BD timing is perfect!

Grr, why can't life be simple?!?


----------



## NorthStar

Well honestly until I joined this forum I had never heard of a short LP being a medical problem, I know there's one lady on here that's already got 3 kids and only had a short LP, so I just wonder if it's really that big a deal.

Have you asked Mon (Mon n John) what progesterone she takes? I know she takes some.

Also I know that the first time I tried to shift my cycle dates (cycle 1 before I started this EPO stupid idea) I just started taking the minipill which is basically progesterone on 14DPO and it did the trick, took it for 5 days and got AF about 2 days after, you could always try that for a few days? That would certainly give you a longer LP, though it might knock your cycle around a bit, but as you say your partner is around so BD timing is not so critical?


----------



## googly

From what I've read, a 'short' LP is 10-12 days, and yes, it's certainly possible to conceive with that (loads of examples on here). But sub-10 days is more usually classed as a 'defect', and that usually IS more of a problem. So at 7-9 days I'm certainly concerned...

I know the progesterone monnjohn is on, and it's prescription only... As would the mini pill be. Problem with that is my GP does not believe in progesterone as a solution (yeah, I know)... So those options arent immediately available to me. Hence the reason I'm pinning my hopes on the FS.


----------



## greengerbera

Hi Ya - Been reading the thread with great interest... as I also have a 9 day luteal phase which I can not extend at all by using supplement / progesterone etc...

Googly - I also have a FS appointment on Wednesday where I am hoping to get some possible advice - it will be interesting to whether they view a 9 day LP as a problem or not??

Would be interested to hear the two FS points of view!


----------



## StarSign

googly said:


> From what I've read, a 'short' LP is 10-12 days, and yes, it's certainly possible to conceive with that (loads of examples on here). But sub-10 days is more usually classed as a 'defect', and that usually IS more of a problem. So at 7-9 days I'm certainly concerned...
> 
> I know the progesterone monnjohn is on, and it's prescription only... As would the mini pill be. Problem with that is my GP does not believe in progesterone as a solution (yeah, I know)... So those options arent immediately available to me. Hence the reason I'm pinning my hopes on the FS.




greengerbera said:


> Hi Ya - Been reading the thread with great interest... as I also have a 9 day luteal phase which I can not extend at all by using supplement / progesterone etc...
> 
> Googly - I also have a FS appointment on Wednesday where I am hoping to get some possible advice - it will be interesting to whether they view a 9 day LP as a problem or not??
> 
> Would be interested to hear the two FS points of view!

Have either one of you guys tried vitex? I know personally it moved my Ov'ed day up 1-3 days. If you keep the same cycle length, then you've got it made making it the LP 10-12 days. You'll need to share what (if any) recoo's the FS says though.

Also, progesterone is available OTC, but you'll need to find versions with the least amount of additives as the versions out there typically are for menopausal women, so they'll have stuff like black cohosh which isn't fertility-friendly. I'll post back the brand I found, but I just went to the local Vitamin Shoppe and read labels.

Hey! Was cruising LPDefect and this site suggested what I did re: vitex.:haha: https://www.thefertilityrealm.com/luteal-phase-defect.html

G'luck,
*SS*


----------



## googly

greengerbera said:


> Hi Ya - Been reading the thread with great interest... as I also have a 9 day luteal phase which I can not extend at all by using supplement / progesterone etc...
> 
> Googly - I also have a FS appointment on Wednesday where I am hoping to get some possible advice - it will be interesting to whether they view a 9 day LP as a problem or not??
> 
> Would be interested to hear the two FS points of view!

Oh wow, yes, definitely! Should compare notes after...


----------



## googly

StarSign said:


> Have either one of you guys tried vitex? I know personally it moved my Ov'ed day up 1-3 days. If you keep the same cycle length, then you've got it made making it the LP 10-12 days. You'll need to share what (if any) recoo's the FS says though.
> 
> Also, progesterone is available OTC, but you'll need to find versions with the least amount of additives as the versions out there typically are for menopausal women, so they'll have stuff like black cohosh which isn't fertility-friendly. I'll post back the brand I found, but I just went to the local Vitamin Shoppe and read labels.
> 
> Hey! Was cruising LPDefect and this site suggested what I did re: vitex.:haha: https://www.thefertilityrealm.com/luteal-phase-defect.html
> 
> G'luck,
> *SS*

Hey SS, yeah I've tried both actually - have been taking vitex for over 3 months and haven't really seen any difference (Same for B complex actually - that seems to work for some people). And then this last month I used two different kinds of OTC progesterone and they weren't successful in lengthening the LP at all (in fact it ended up being shorter). 

I think the thing is, depending on what is *causing* the fertility issue (LP defect or whatever), different supplements with have different effects on different people... it's just a question of finding the thing that makes the difference for you!

I would be inclined to continue with vitex because I know it acts over the long term (3+ months use) - so it MIGHT just be coming into it's own - but I also know it interacts adversely with Clomid and soy, and I would really like to try one of those next cycle - so I want to make sure my body is clear of it for that. If the FS says Clomid etc won't help me, then I might continue with vitex again, because I know there are an awful lot of good news stories with it!


----------



## StarSign

googly said:


> StarSign said:
> 
> 
> Have either one of you guys tried vitex? I know personally it moved my Ov'ed day up 1-3 days. If you keep the same cycle length, then you've got it made making it the LP 10-12 days. You'll need to share what (if any) recoo's the FS says though.
> 
> Also, progesterone is available OTC, but you'll need to find versions with the least amount of additives as the versions out there typically are for menopausal women, so they'll have stuff like black cohosh which isn't fertility-friendly. I'll post back the brand I found, but I just went to the local Vitamin Shoppe and read labels.
> 
> Hey! Was cruising LPDefect and this site suggested what I did re: vitex.:haha: https://www.thefertilityrealm.com/luteal-phase-defect.html
> 
> G'luck,
> *SS*
> 
> Hey SS, yeah I've tried both actually - have been taking vitex for over 3 months and haven't really seen any difference (Same for B complex actually - that seems to work for some people). And then this last month I used two different kinds of OTC progesterone and they weren't successful in lengthening the LP at all (in fact it ended up being shorter).
> 
> I think the thing is, depending on what is *causing* the fertility issue (LP defect or whatever), different supplements with have different effects on different people... it's just a question of finding the thing that makes the difference for you!
> 
> I would be inclined to continue with vitex because I know it acts over the long term (3+ months use) - so it MIGHT just be coming into it's own - but I also know it interacts adversely with Clomid and soy, and I would really like to try one of those next cycle - so I want to make sure my body is clear of it for that. If the FS says Clomid etc won't help me, then I might continue with vitex again, because I know there are an awful lot of good news stories with it!Click to expand...

What dose of vitex are you on? I think wherever you're at, it may be worth the while to up it. Are you doing vitamin B6 + vitex? I agree- you shouldn't do both the vitex + Clomid or soy + Clomid. Although, what's the point of the soy if LP isn't that long?

I am/was regular (before all my issues) at 29 day cycle/ 14+ day LP, so 40mg vitex was enough for me. Maybe look at 120mg or so?

*SS*


----------



## googly

StarSign said:


> googly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StarSign said:
> 
> 
> Have either one of you guys tried vitex? I know personally it moved my Ov'ed day up 1-3 days. If you keep the same cycle length, then you've got it made making it the LP 10-12 days. You'll need to share what (if any) recoo's the FS says though.
> 
> Also, progesterone is available OTC, but you'll need to find versions with the least amount of additives as the versions out there typically are for menopausal women, so they'll have stuff like black cohosh which isn't fertility-friendly. I'll post back the brand I found, but I just went to the local Vitamin Shoppe and read labels.
> 
> Hey! Was cruising LPDefect and this site suggested what I did re: vitex.:haha: https://www.thefertilityrealm.com/luteal-phase-defect.html
> 
> G'luck,
> *SS*
> 
> Hey SS, yeah I've tried both actually - have been taking vitex for over 3 months and haven't really seen any difference (Same for B complex actually - that seems to work for some people). And then this last month I used two different kinds of OTC progesterone and they weren't successful in lengthening the LP at all (in fact it ended up being shorter).
> 
> I think the thing is, depending on what is *causing* the fertility issue (LP defect or whatever), different supplements with have different effects on different people... it's just a question of finding the thing that makes the difference for you!
> 
> I would be inclined to continue with vitex because I know it acts over the long term (3+ months use) - so it MIGHT just be coming into it's own - but I also know it interacts adversely with Clomid and soy, and I would really like to try one of those next cycle - so I want to make sure my body is clear of it for that. If the FS says Clomid etc won't help me, then I might continue with vitex again, because I know there are an awful lot of good news stories with it!Click to expand...
> 
> What dose of vitex are you on? I think wherever you're at, it may be worth the while to up it. Are you doing vitamin B6 + vitex? I agree- you shouldn't do both the vitex + Clomid or soy + Clomid. Although, what's the point of the soy if LP isn't that long?
> 
> I am/was regular (before all my issues) at 29 day cycle/ 14+ day LP, so 40mg vitex was enough for me. Maybe look at 120mg or so?
> 
> *SS*Click to expand...

Hmm that's weird, my vitex comes in 400mg capsules I think? And have been taking 5 of those/day! (bottle recommended 3/day but I'd read about people taking way more) That can't be right... there must be some difference between then two. Will have to check!


----------



## googly

This is the vitex I'm taking: https://www.healthy.co.nz/product/160-vitex.html

It does recommend taking it for 6 months.... dropping down to 1 x capsule a day after 3 months, i.e. now. Hmm, maybe I should continue it. Well, will see FS tomorrow, see what he says, then if no objections maybe I will persist with it.


----------



## StarSign

googly said:


> StarSign said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> googly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StarSign said:
> 
> 
> Have either one of you guys tried vitex? I know personally it moved my Ov'ed day up 1-3 days. If you keep the same cycle length, then you've got it made making it the LP 10-12 days. You'll need to share what (if any) recoo's the FS says though.
> 
> Also, progesterone is available OTC, but you'll need to find versions with the least amount of additives as the versions out there typically are for menopausal women, so they'll have stuff like black cohosh which isn't fertility-friendly. I'll post back the brand I found, but I just went to the local Vitamin Shoppe and read labels.
> 
> Hey! Was cruising LPDefect and this site suggested what I did re: vitex.:haha: https://www.thefertilityrealm.com/luteal-phase-defect.html
> 
> G'luck,
> *SS*
> 
> Hey SS, yeah I've tried both actually - have been taking vitex for over 3 months and haven't really seen any difference (Same for B complex actually - that seems to work for some people). And then this last month I used two different kinds of OTC progesterone and they weren't successful in lengthening the LP at all (in fact it ended up being shorter).
> 
> I think the thing is, depending on what is *causing* the fertility issue (LP defect or whatever), different supplements with have different effects on different people... it's just a question of finding the thing that makes the difference for you!
> 
> I would be inclined to continue with vitex because I know it acts over the long term (3+ months use) - so it MIGHT just be coming into it's own - but I also know it interacts adversely with Clomid and soy, and I would really like to try one of those next cycle - so I want to make sure my body is clear of it for that. If the FS says Clomid etc won't help me, then I might continue with vitex again, because I know there are an awful lot of good news stories with it!Click to expand...
> 
> What dose of vitex are you on? I think wherever you're at, it may be worth the while to up it. Are you doing vitamin B6 + vitex? I agree- you shouldn't do both the vitex + Clomid or soy + Clomid. Although, what's the point of the soy if LP isn't that long?
> 
> I am/was regular (before all my issues) at 29 day cycle/ 14+ day LP, so 40mg vitex was enough for me. Maybe look at 120mg or so?
> 
> *SS*Click to expand...
> 
> Hmm that's weird, my vitex comes in 400mg capsules I think? And have been taking 5 of those/day! (bottle recommended 3/day but I'd read about people taking way more) That can't be right... there must be some difference between then two. Will have to check!Click to expand...

WOW!!! 2000mg? And no difference? :wacko: My vitex is part of a combo-pill though, but since the rest of the herbs only make up a minor part of the pill...maybe it's extract form.

Having taken herbs for all sorts of situations- I've found that some brands are more effective than others or that some seem to be fresher/more potent. *There's also the factor about how you're taking the pills.* Are you taking the pills with food or anything? With food- herbs diminish in their absorption ability because the acids in your tummy break it down before it goes into the bloodstream. That's what makes sublingual extracts so potent because they go directly into the system (since most are alcohol-based, they can sting a little bit while you hold them under your tongue, but you wind up taking much less).

There's also the time of day impact. For many- hormonally-influencing stuff is better at night not only because you don't deal with side effects during the day, but the body can process them with "less distraction". During the day our bodies need to divert energy to helping us see, walk. lol.

*SS*


----------



## googly

StarSign said:


> WOW!!! 2000mg? And no difference? :wacko: My vitex is part of a combo-pill though, but since the rest of the herbs only make up a minor part of the pill...maybe it's extract form.
> 
> Having taken herbs for all sorts of situations- I've found that some brands are more effective than others or that some seem to be fresher/more potent. *There's also the factor about how you're taking the pills.* Are you taking the pills with food or anything? With food- herbs diminish in their absorption ability because the acids in your tummy break it down before it goes into the bloodstream. That's what makes sublingual extracts so potent because they go directly into the system (since most are alcohol-based, they can sting a little bit while you hold them under your tongue, but you wind up taking much less).
> 
> There's also the time of day impact. For many- hormonally-influencing stuff is better at night not only because you don't deal with side effects during the day, but the body can process them with "less distraction". During the day our bodies need to divert energy to helping us see, walk. lol.
> 
> *SS*

Hmm, complicated! I had been taking them after breakfast and after dinner... maybe that was wrong...

Well I think the answer for me might be to go see a naturopath/herbalist rather than self medicate from now on! Thanks for the suggestions anyway, will definitely think about different options...


----------



## StarSign

googly said:


> This is the vitex I'm taking: https://www.healthy.co.nz/product/160-vitex.html
> 
> It does recommend taking it for 6 months.... dropping down to 1 x capsule a day after 3 months, i.e. now. Hmm, maybe I should continue it. Well, will see FS tomorrow, see what he says, then if no objections maybe I will persist with it.

Good brand.



googly said:


> StarSign said:
> 
> 
> WOW!!! 2000mg? And no difference? :wacko: My vitex is part of a combo-pill though, but since the rest of the herbs only make up a minor part of the pill...maybe it's extract form.
> 
> Having taken herbs for all sorts of situations- I've found that some brands are more effective than others or that some seem to be fresher/more potent. *There's also the factor about how you're taking the pills.* Are you taking the pills with food or anything? With food- herbs diminish in their absorption ability because the acids in your tummy break it down before it goes into the bloodstream. That's what makes sublingual extracts so potent because they go directly into the system (since most are alcohol-based, they can sting a little bit while you hold them under your tongue, but you wind up taking much less).
> 
> There's also the time of day impact. For many- hormonally-influencing stuff is better at night not only because you don't deal with side effects during the day, but the body can process them with "less distraction". During the day our bodies need to divert energy to helping us see, walk. lol.
> 
> *SS*
> 
> Hmm, complicated! I had been taking them after breakfast and after dinner... maybe that was wrong...
> 
> Well I think the answer for me might be to go see a naturopath/herbalist rather than self medicate from now on! Thanks for the suggestions anyway, will definitely think about different options...Click to expand...

If you do keep doing the vitex, do it 30min to 1hr before you eat. 

G'luck!
*SS*


----------



## LancyLass

StarSign said:


> googly said:
> 
> 
> but I also know it interacts adversely with Clomid and soy, and I would really like to try one of those next cycle
> 
> Although, what's the point of the soy if LP isn't that long?
> 
> *SS*Click to expand...

Yeah I was trying to figure out if soy could help a short LP or not. Don't know if you've seen the discussion I've been having with Junebug over on the August testers thread, but soy seems it works by inhibiting FSH and LH production, and then causes a surge when you stop taking it so eggs are released. Not sure how that might help LP? But one of the possible causes of short LP is to do with follicle development or something, isn't it? So maybe it could help with that?? I haven't quite got my head round all the science/biology yet!


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:

> Yeah I was trying to figure out if soy could help a short LP or not. Don't know if you've seen the discussion I've been having with Junebug over on the August testers thread, but soy seems it works by inhibiting FSH and LH production, and then causes a surge when you stop taking it so eggs are released. Not sure how that might help LP? But one of the possible causes of short LP is to do with follicle development or something, isn't it? So maybe it could help with that?? I haven't quite got my head round all the science/biology yet!

I don't understand the biology either! But -- I have heard that they use Clomid for a way around a short LP, and soy is supposedly a 'natural' version of Clomid - ?

I will ask at my FS appt tomorrow and see what he says. Will let you know LancyLass - I know your LP is similar to mine...


----------



## greengerbera

I did take soy for my last two cycles in the hope of extending my 9 day luteal phase and getting my BFP!

Unfortunately it did nothing for my luteal phase or getting my BFP..

I did feel ovulation on the first cycle - which I don't normally - but that was about it... 

However my second cycle on soy - I think ovulated very late in cycle (clearblue monitor gave me a peak) and then my temperatures never rised afterwards - so not sure what was going on.

Don't think I would try soy again.....

Starsign - I did try Vitex but only for 2 months - so maybe I need to use it for a more prolonged period of time / + increasing dosage...


----------



## StarSign

greengerbera said:


> I did take soy for my last two cycles in the hope of extending my 9 day luteal phase and getting my BFP!
> 
> Unfortunately it did nothing for my luteal phase or getting my BFP..
> 
> I did feel ovulation on the first cycle - which I don't normally - but that was about it...
> 
> However my second cycle on soy - I think ovulated very late in cycle (clearblue monitor gave me a peak) and then my temperatures never rised afterwards - so not sure what was going on.
> 
> Don't think I would try soy again.....
> 
> Starsign - I did try Vitex but only for 2 months - so maybe I need to use it for a more prolonged period of time / + increasing dosage...

Yeah, I would try increasing dosage and taking the dose on an empty tummy. For some- it can take up to 3 months to see effect. For me, I felt it first cycle, but I was on my optimal dosage. What dose were you on before?

*SS*


----------



## googly

Hi guys, I posted this in another thread, but thought it might be useful for some here as well. I went to a FS today about my short (7-9 days) LP - my GP reluctantly referred me, despite not thinking it was much of a problem! 

I'm glad I forced the issue because the FS said I was definitely right to come and see him when I did because no, I would NOT get pregnant with a 7-9 day LP. He did an ultrasound to check the internals - uterus looks fine, left ovary fine with good follicles, right ovary "a touch polycystic looking", but nothing major. All other bloods fine, except CD21 progesterone level is good enough to prove ovulation, but too low to support a good length LP (obviously). He said he doesn't immediately know what would be causing the short LP - maybe something to do with follicle development, maybe a couple of other factors... but basically they all end with Clomid treatment. So that's what he's recommended.

I will take that for 3 cycles unmonitored, except for doing CD21 bloods to check progesterone (wanting to see an increase each time). After that we'll re-assess, possibly up the dosage, do some more tests (e.g. checking the tubes) and maybe do some FSH treatments. He's also ordered more bloods to check FSH, prolactin, and AMH, but he thinks they should be fine).

Also said if I do get pregnant to go in straight away and get early pregnancy monitoring, esp. re. progesterone. 

All in all, I feel pretty good that a) someone agrees with me that my LP is a problem, and b) that I'm doing something about it now. I would definitely recommend all those with this issue to force an appt with a FS asap...

:hugs:


----------



## NorthStar

Brilliant, I already posted my congrats in finding a good FS in the other thread but it must be a massive relief.

With the Clomid you might want to invest in the cough syrip to counteract the drying effects on CM?


----------



## googly

NorthStar said:


> Brilliant, I already posted my congrats in finding a good FS in the other thread but it must be a massive relief.
> 
> With the Clomid you might want to invest in the cough syrip to counteract the drying effects on CM?

Got it on the way home! :thumbup:

One thing I am going to have to watch on clomid though, is that it can apparently sometimes reduce your endometrial layer - and I already have VERY light periods... But he said to just see how we go for 3 months and then we could re-assess/do more tests, which could include that endometrial biopsy thing that some people have. 

So they seem to prefer a stepped approach before escalating too much - but I'm fine with that at this stage - especially from a financial POV!


----------



## NorthStar

Ok well you're good to go now then, fab news.

Hopefully the Clomid does the trick for you, I've heard people say it lengthens their LP.


----------



## LancyLass

googly said:


> Hi guys, I posted this in another thread, but thought it might be useful for some here as well. I went to a FS today about my short (7-9 days) LP - my GP reluctantly referred me, despite not thinking it was much of a problem!
> 
> I'm glad I forced the issue because the FS said I was definitely right to come and see him when I did because no, I would NOT get pregnant with a 7-9 day LP. He did an ultrasound to check the internals - uterus looks fine, left ovary fine with good follicles, right ovary "a touch polycystic looking", but nothing major. All other bloods fine, except CD21 progesterone level is good enough to prove ovulation, but too low to support a good length LP (obviously). He said he doesn't immediately know what would be causing the short LP - maybe something to do with follicle development, maybe a couple of other factors... but basically they all end with Clomid treatment. So that's what he's recommended.
> 
> I will take that for 3 cycles unmonitored, except for doing CD21 bloods to check progesterone (wanting to see an increase each time). After that we'll re-assess, possibly up the dosage, do some more tests (e.g. checking the tubes) and maybe do some FSH treatments. He's also ordered more bloods to check FSH, prolactin, and AMH, but he thinks they should be fine).
> 
> Also said if I do get pregnant to go in straight away and get early pregnancy monitoring, esp. re. progesterone.
> 
> All in all, I feel pretty good that a) someone agrees with me that my LP is a problem, and b) that I'm doing something about it now. I would definitely recommend all those with this issue to force an appt with a FS asap...
> 
> :hugs:




googly said:


> NorthStar said:
> 
> 
> Brilliant, I already posted my congrats in finding a good FS in the other thread but it must be a massive relief.
> 
> With the Clomid you might want to invest in the cough syrip to counteract the drying effects on CM?
> 
> Got it on the way home! :thumbup:
> 
> One thing I am going to have to watch on clomid though, is that it can apparently sometimes reduce your endometrial layer - and I already have VERY light periods... But he said to just see how we go for 3 months and then we could re-assess/do more tests, which could include that endometrial biopsy thing that some people have.
> 
> So they seem to prefer a stepped approach before escalating too much - but I'm fine with that at this stage - especially from a financial POV!Click to expand...

Great news for you. Looks like I'm going to have to start pushing it with the GP too. How long had you been trying before they agreed to refer you? Having said that, my GP already made noises about trying drugs (I think it was Clomid) so maybe I can get further with her than you did with yours.

Googly, you and I seem to be v similar - I think I have lightish periods too (although how do you know?! I mean you only ever experience your own periods so how do you know how it compares to everyone else??!) So the endometrial thing might be a prob for me too.


----------



## greengerbera

Googly - Really happy that you have had a successful FS appointment ...

Mine did not go so well :o(

The FS basically said the 9 day luteal phase was due to my age and there was not much he could do and ideally it should be 14 days ...

He said that my only option if pregnancy did not happen naturally was to go for IVF due to my age (40!) and that was it ..

I am so disappointed that I felt he just took one look at my notes - and looked at my age and wasn't going to progress it anymore - he did offer a dye test which I have accepted - just to see if any blockages - but I did not get an scan or anything which I was sort of expecting with the first appointment?

Came away really sad and fed up!

I am now wondering if I need to consider a private appointment rather than NHS (UK System) - who might give me more time considering I am a paying patient?

It is interesting that our two experiences have been very different - I would be really interested to follow you to see how you get on with the Clomid - I will keep all fingers and toes crossed for you that it works and that you see a extension to your luteal phase and a BFP!!

Starsign - Looks like I am starting the Vitex today .... What dosage would you suggest I take?


----------



## LancyLass

greengerbera said:


> Googly - Really happy that you have had a successful FS appointment ...
> 
> Mine did not go so well :o(
> 
> The FS basically said the 9 day luteal phase was due to my age and there was not much he could do and ideally it should be 14 days ...
> 
> He said that my only option if pregnancy did not happen naturally was to go for IVF due to my age (40!) and that was it ..
> 
> I am so disappointed that I felt he just took one look at my notes - and looked at my age and wasn't going to progress it anymore - he did offer a dye test which I have accepted - just to see if any blockages - but I did not get an scan or anything which I was sort of expecting with the first appointment?
> 
> Came away really sad and fed up!
> 
> I am now wondering if I need to consider a private appointment rather than NHS (UK System) - who might give me more time considering I am a paying patient?
> 
> It is interesting that our two experiences have been very different - I would be really interested to follow you to see how you get on with the Clomid - I will keep all fingers and toes crossed for you that it works and that you see a extension to your luteal phase and a BFP!!
> 
> Starsign - Looks like I am starting the Vitex today .... What dosage would you suggest I take?

That sucks. So sorry.:hugs: Do you mind me asking which hospital you went to? Same for you Googly? We're supposed to have "Patient Choice" on the NHS and can ask for any hospital you want when you're referred. So if I get to that stage, it'd be good to know which are the better hospitals rather than just going local. Thanks.


----------



## greengerbera

It was my local hospital - Hinchingbrooke in Huntingdon, Cambs

Which was obviously a bad choice...


----------



## LancyLass

It's amazing the different levels of service/knowledge you get at hospitals. I have a heart defect I have to get checked every couple of years. My local hospital cardiac consultant recently left so they had a locum in for my last appt. He was cr*p! I had to tell HIM the latest medical advice about something - which my previous two consultants had told me a few years ago. Utterly shocking as it means he's telling the wrong thing to all his other patients.

I know you're probably feeling deflated right now after your appt, but if you feel up for the fight you should check out your rights on the NHS about going for a second opinion.:flower:


----------



## StarSign

greengerbera said:


> Googly - Really happy that you have had a successful FS appointment ...
> 
> Mine did not go so well :o(
> 
> The FS basically said the 9 day luteal phase was due to my age and there was not much he could do and ideally it should be 14 days ...
> 
> He said that my only option if pregnancy did not happen naturally was to go for IVF due to my age (40!) and that was it ..
> 
> I am so disappointed that I felt he just took one look at my notes - and looked at my age and wasn't going to progress it anymore - he did offer a dye test which I have accepted - just to see if any blockages - but I did not get an scan or anything which I was sort of expecting with the first appointment?
> 
> Came away really sad and fed up!
> 
> I am now wondering if I need to consider a private appointment rather than NHS (UK System) - who might give me more time considering I am a paying patient?
> 
> It is interesting that our two experiences have been very different - I would be really interested to follow you to see how you get on with the Clomid - I will keep all fingers and toes crossed for you that it works and that you see a extension to your luteal phase and a BFP!!
> 
> Starsign - Looks like I am starting the Vitex today .... What dosage would you suggest I take?

Hi Green'-

I would start out at 800mg on an empty tummy (either 30minutes b4 eating or 2hrs after) in the morning. Starting it as early in your cycle as possible gives your body more time to respond by the end of it. Here's to an immediate increase of 1-2 days this cycle. :dust:





googly said:


> NorthStar said:
> 
> 
> Brilliant, I already posted my congrats in finding a good FS in the other thread but it must be a massive relief.
> 
> With the Clomid you might want to invest in the cough syrip to counteract the drying effects on CM?
> 
> Got it on the way home! :thumbup:
> 
> One thing I am going to have to watch on clomid though, is that it can apparently sometimes reduce your endometrial layer - and I already have VERY light periods... But he said to just see how we go for 3 months and then we could re-assess/do more tests, which could include that endometrial biopsy thing that some people have.
> 
> So they seem to prefer a stepped approach before escalating too much - but I'm fine with that at this stage - especially from a financial POV!Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your update. I'm glad you felt like someone in the medical field understood you! Another thing to help the uterine lining is Siberian Ginseng. It increases the health and blood flow there. It won't interfere with the Clomid and cough syrup.

:dust: to you.


----------



## greengerbera

Thanks Lancylass - your email has prompted me to question my appointment today!

So just sent a email off to the Department Nurse explaining my disappointment with the appointment and it also gave me the opportunity to restate my concerns with my luteal phase and questioned the possible use of clomid?

We will see if they respond... if not .. will just have to keep the HSG appointment and see if I can rebook to discuss the results of that and hopefully may get a different consultant that I can talk to?

Thanks again for the advice..


----------



## LancyLass

greengerbera said:


> Thanks Lancylass - your email has prompted me to question my appointment today!
> 
> So just sent a email off to the Department Nurse explaining my disappointment with the appointment and it also gave me the opportunity to restate my concerns with my luteal phase and questioned the possible use of clomid?
> 
> We will see if they respond... if not .. will just have to keep the HSG appointment and see if I can rebook to discuss the results of that and hopefully may get a different consultant that I can talk to?
> 
> Thanks again for the advice..

Go for it girl!!!:thumbup:


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> Great news for you. Looks like I'm going to have to start pushing it with the GP too. How long had you been trying before they agreed to refer you? Having said that, my GP already made noises about trying drugs (I think it was Clomid) so maybe I can get further with her than you did with yours.
> 
> Googly, you and I seem to be v similar - I think I have lightish periods too (although how do you know?! I mean you only ever experience your own periods so how do you know how it compares to everyone else??!) So the endometrial thing might be a prob for me too.

Ha, yeah I was thinking the same re. how do you know... but I explained to the doc (TMI ahead) that my periods amounted to maybe 2-3 tampons "worth" total... and it seems like the percentage of brown to red blood is somewhere around 75:25, so not much red blood at all. He agreed that was "light" !!

Re. how long trying, I came of the BCP at the beginning of Feb, didn't take much notice the first month, and have then had 6 cycles of what I think is 'well-timed' BD, i.e. I monitored and was pretty sure I knew when ov was, and usually got at least 2 BD in around the peak days.

My GP was happy enough to refer after that amount of time (possibly earlier actually), but it was more on the basis of age than anything else, as I've mentioned a few times (because I can't belieeeeeve it!) - she/they didn't see much problem with my LP! Pfffft.

I don't know whether GPs in the UK are willing to prescribe Clomid (or other clomiphene citrate - mine is actually 'Seraphene') but GPs here certainly aren't... and I don't know if I would want it from them anyway! I couldn't believe how little they knew. Seeing the FS, it was mostly just such a relief to talk to someone who knew what they were talking about.

Definitely force the issue one way or other... it sounds like we won't get far with our short or 'defect' LPs without a bit of help. Better to know that up front eh :thumbup:


----------



## googly

greengerbera said:


> Googly - Really happy that you have had a successful FS appointment ...
> 
> Mine did not go so well :o(
> 
> The FS basically said the 9 day luteal phase was due to my age and there was not much he could do and ideally it should be 14 days ...
> 
> He said that my only option if pregnancy did not happen naturally was to go for IVF due to my age (40!) and that was it ..
> 
> I am so disappointed that I felt he just took one look at my notes - and looked at my age and wasn't going to progress it anymore - he did offer a dye test which I have accepted - just to see if any blockages - but I did not get an scan or anything which I was sort of expecting with the first appointment?
> 
> Came away really sad and fed up!
> 
> I am now wondering if I need to consider a private appointment rather than NHS (UK System) - who might give me more time considering I am a paying patient?
> 
> It is interesting that our two experiences have been very different - I would be really interested to follow you to see how you get on with the Clomid - I will keep all fingers and toes crossed for you that it works and that you see a extension to your luteal phase and a BFP!!
> 
> Starsign - Looks like I am starting the Vitex today .... What dosage would you suggest I take?

So sorry you didn't get progress ggb, that really sucks. I agree with the others about trying to get a second opinion, and/or going privately if that is an option... this guy I saw was essentially 'private' (I think all specialists are here) and it was totally worth the attention and expertise you get.

From what this guy told me, what they're telling you is bollocks - he suggested to me that there are lots of things we can try, Clomid is just the start -- that was one of the things that really encouraged me. I get the impression Clomid is the fertility 'wonder drug' they chuck at everyone first! But he seemed to have a 'path' in mind as well. And I don't think age closes those, not at 40 anyway!

Will definitely keep you posted on how I go with Clomid anyway... I'm starting on a very low dose, so I'm not necessarily expecting anything this month, but will bump it up next cycle. Still, will be interesting to see what it does to ov and LP...

FX for you... see what you can do about seeing another doc!! Might make all the difference :hugs:


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> That sucks. So sorry.:hugs: Do you mind me asking which hospital you went to? Same for you Googly? We're supposed to have "Patient Choice" on the NHS and can ask for any hospital you want when you're referred. So if I get to that stage, it'd be good to know which are the better hospitals rather than just going local. Thanks.

I went to 'Fertility Associates', which I think is a private/public fertility clinic here in New Zealand. There is a points system (according to various things like age, health, previous children, time ttc, etc) whereby if you get enough points it is publicly funded... but until then, it's a fair bit of $$$. I think I qualify in a lot of areas - being over 35 bumps you up quite a bit - but I have to be on Clomid for 9 months before I fall into the publicly funded category. Then you qualify for subsidised/paid IUI and IVF.

So yeah, they were v. good... I was v. impressed with the doc, their approach... he was quite laid back about it, didn't seem to be ordering any unnecessary tests, and minimising the amount of appointments I would need - which I appreciate from a financial POV! So glad I went.

If either of you are anywhere near Warwickshire I can recommend an awesome endocrinologist - my Dad! :D he's at Warwick Hospital. 

(not that I've talked to him about our TTC - noooooo way, never :haha: but he does always like to joke about how many women he's got pregnant, haha... professionally speaking of course)

It does seem like an endocrinologist is the type you want if you have hormone related issues... which seems like is primarily the case with LP defect (progesterone and/or FSH issues).

I would seriously keep trying docs until you get someone good ... there seems to be a such a wide variation in advice. Who knows if this clomid is going to work for me, but I at least want to TRY.

:hugs:


----------



## googly

StarSign said:


> Thanks for posting your update. I'm glad you felt like someone in the medical field understood you! Another thing to help the uterine lining is Siberian Ginseng. It increases the health and blood flow there. It won't interfere with the Clomid and cough syrup.
> 
> :dust: to you.

Hey thanks, I will definitely try that out... I'm also doing acupuncture, hoping that will help as well. Other than that I was going to drop my other supplements while on Clomid, but maybe I'll add that back in - sounds like it could be useful for the lining issue.

Thanks! :flower:


----------



## googly

greengerbera said:


> Thanks Lancylass - your email has prompted me to question my appointment today!
> 
> So just sent a email off to the Department Nurse explaining my disappointment with the appointment and it also gave me the opportunity to restate my concerns with my luteal phase and questioned the possible use of clomid?
> 
> We will see if they respond... if not .. will just have to keep the HSG appointment and see if I can rebook to discuss the results of that and hopefully may get a different consultant that I can talk to?
> 
> Thanks again for the advice..

You might get a different person, yeah... that would be good. I'd keep it in any case - the more you know, the better off you are eh...

Do you chart etc? I found it quite useful to be able to put all my charts in front of the docs and SHOW them exactly what I was talking about... the FS agreed with me quite quickly after that.


----------



## StarSign

googly said:


> Hey thanks, I will definitely try that out... I'm also doing acupuncture, hoping that will help as well. Other than that I was going to drop my other supplements while on Clomid, but maybe I'll add that back in - sounds like it could be useful for the lining issue.
> Thanks! :flower:

I'm sure you are, but make sure it's an acupuncturist specializing in fertility (not just female wellness). Also, you may want to decline any herbal offerings because oft times they don't disclose what's in the mix. Dong quai is commonly offered as is black cohosh. I know for fact they can help menopausal gals, but those items can cause probs for those TTC (early bleeding, etc.). But hey, dong quai is in the Fertibella supplement and people report :bfp:, however an interesting number definitely report early bleeding when they first start on it.

And 400mg of Siberian ginseng in morning or nite on empty tummy is a good starting place.

Happy Needle-pokes!:winkwink:


----------



## googly

StarSign said:


> googly said:
> 
> 
> Hey thanks, I will definitely try that out... I'm also doing acupuncture, hoping that will help as well. Other than that I was going to drop my other supplements while on Clomid, but maybe I'll add that back in - sounds like it could be useful for the lining issue.
> Thanks! :flower:
> 
> I'm sure you are, but make sure it's an acupuncturist specializing in fertility (not just female wellness). Also, you may want to decline any herbal offerings because oft times they don't disclose what's in the mix. Dong quai is commonly offered as is black cohosh. I know for fact they can help menopausal gals, but those items can cause probs for those TTC (early bleeding, etc.). But hey, dong quai is in the Fertibella supplement and people report :bfp:, however an interesting number definitely report early bleeding when they first start on it.
> 
> And 400mg of Siberian ginseng in morning or nite on empty tummy is a good starting place.
> 
> Happy Needle-pokes!:winkwink:Click to expand...

Hi Starsign, yes she is definitely TCM-trained fertility acupuncturist... but not a naturapath actually, so not doing any herbs with her. However - I had been on dong quai due to an earlier recommendation and she had shown my chart to a naturapath friend who said exactly what you just did, i.e. definitely not to take that any more, will NOT be helping my short LP! 

I don't think it has mind you, as my LP was consistently way short even before taking dong quai... 

In any case, that is gone now! And same for everything else.

But I might try the siberian ginseng... definitely no interaction with the Clomid you reckon?


----------



## greengerbera

YIPPEEEE

Just a quick update - I have had a really nice email back from the fertility nurse - informing me that I saw a registrar yesterday and not the consultant!! So she has suggested that I go for the HSG which will give them some further information - and then come back to see the consultant! Who would look at the possibility of putting me on Clomid!!

I am really happy - Thank you so much girls for helping me question my appointment yesterday - I am so glad that I emailed now .....


----------



## googly

greengerbera said:


> YIPPEEEE
> 
> Just a quick update - I have had a really nice email back from the fertility nurse - informing me that I saw a registrar yesterday and not the consultant!! So she has suggested that I go for the HSG which will give them some further information - and then come back to see the consultant! Who would look at the possibility of putting me on Clomid!!
> 
> I am really happy - Thank you so much girls for helping me question my appointment yesterday - I am so glad that I emailed now .....

Hey that's really awesome greengerbera! V. happy for you :happydance:

Good on you for questioning it! They'll get ya sorted... :hugs:


----------



## LancyLass

googly said:


> Ha, yeah I was thinking the same re. how do you know... but I explained to the doc (TMI ahead) that my periods amounted to maybe 2-3 tampons "worth" total... and it seems like the percentage of brown to red blood is somewhere around 75:25, so not much red blood at all. He agreed that was "light" !!

Blimey, yes, that is light!



googly said:


> I don't know whether GPs in the UK are willing to prescribe Clomid (or other clomiphene citrate - mine is actually 'Seraphene') but GPs here certainly aren't... and I don't know if I would want it from them anyway! I couldn't believe how little they knew. Seeing the FS, it was mostly just such a relief to talk to someone who knew what they were talking about.




googly said:


> I went to 'Fertility Associates', which I think is a private/public fertility clinic here in New Zealand. There is a points system (according to various things like age, health, previous children, time ttc, etc) whereby if you get enough points it is publicly funded... but until then, it's a fair bit of $$$. I think I qualify in a lot of areas - being over 35 bumps you up quite a bit - but I have to be on Clomid for 9 months before I fall into the publicly funded category. Then you qualify for subsidised/paid IUI and IVF.
> 
> If either of you are anywhere near Warwickshire I can recommend an awesome endocrinologist - my Dad! :D he's at Warwick Hospital.
> 
> (not that I've talked to him about our TTC - noooooo way, never :haha: but he does always like to joke about how many women he's got pregnant, haha... professionally speaking of course)
> 
> It does seem like an endocrinologist is the type you want if you have hormone related issues... which seems like is primarily the case with LP defect (progesterone and/or FSH issues).
> 
> I would seriously keep trying docs until you get someone good ... there seems to be a such a wide variation in advice. Who knows if this clomid is going to work for me, but I at least want to TRY.
> 
> :hugs:

Ah, I'd assumed you were in the UK because you were talking about GPs too. That sounds like a good system with the part public part private hospital.

Ha ha about your Dad! Warwickshire a bit out of the way unfortunately! (But I'd be willing to go to London or other big city that's easy to get to if necessary). I didn't know what endocrinologists do so that's useful, thanks.

My temp has dropped massively the last two days (8dpo today). Last two months it's stayed up until after period starts, which the doc had said was good sign, so feeling a bit miserable today and no idea what my body is up to!


----------



## LancyLass

greengerbera said:


> YIPPEEEE
> 
> Just a quick update - I have had a really nice email back from the fertility nurse - informing me that I saw a registrar yesterday and not the consultant!! So she has suggested that I go for the HSG which will give them some further information - and then come back to see the consultant! Who would look at the possibility of putting me on Clomid!!
> 
> I am really happy - Thank you so much girls for helping me question my appointment yesterday - I am so glad that I emailed now .....

Brilliant :happydance:


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> Ah, I'd assumed you were in the UK because you were talking about GPs too. That sounds like a good system with the part public part private hospital.
> 
> Ha ha about your Dad! Warwickshire a bit out of the way unfortunately! (But I'd be willing to go to London or other big city that's easy to get to if necessary). I didn't know what endocrinologists do so that's useful, thanks.

Of course there are all sorts of specialists that may be helpful, endocrinologists are only one. But if you end up having a thyroid or hormone issue, specifically, my understanding is that they are particularly good in that area... 



LancyLass said:


> My temp has dropped massively the last two days (8dpo today). Last two months it's stayed up until after period starts, which the doc had said was good sign, so feeling a bit miserable today and no idea what my body is up to!

Your coverline is high this cycle though no? (maybe a bit artificially high, in fact, because of some higher temps in the follicular phase) So the actual temps today are the same as they were last cycle.... so AF may be due, but they're not any lower/worse at least.

If so, I wonder if you have the same thing as me - I have noticed that when my temps come back to 36.5, irrespective of where the coverline is, or what the preceding temps have done, I pretty much know AF is due. It's like clockwork, the day before and the first day of AF - pretty much always around 36.5, no matter what. It's almost like there is some temperature trigger point!

This LPD is frustrating though, for sure... I know at around 7, 8 dpo all I'm thinking is "hang in there, hang in there"... :hugs:


----------



## chistiana

hockey24 said:


> Anyone out there have a short luteal phase?
> 
> I have a 26 / 27 day cycle and didn't ovulate this month until atleast day 16 or 17. Is this enough time for the implantation to occur?
> 
> If anyone out there has a short luteal phase - how many days is that? And what do you do to improve it to allow enough time for everything to do as it should?
> 
> :wacko:

Hey it's not too bad, they say 10-11 days is enough for the fertilised egg to implant. Anyhow, here's what i did for REALLY irregular cycles and i think based on my research it will be good for you too:
I took agnes castus, evening primrose oil (although that is for more fertile ewcm), and L-arginine all from cd 1 up to ovulation. they got my ovulation day for cd 30 to cd 17 and the homepathy dr said they generally regulate the hormones so that your cycle is as it should! good luck!


----------



## StarSign

chistiana said:


> hockey24 said:
> 
> 
> Anyone out there have a short luteal phase?
> 
> I have a 26 / 27 day cycle and didn't ovulate this month until atleast day 16 or 17. Is this enough time for the implantation to occur?
> 
> If anyone out there has a short luteal phase - how many days is that? And what do you do to improve it to allow enough time for everything to do as it should?
> 
> :wacko:
> 
> Hey it's not too bad, they say 10-11 days is enough for the fertilised egg to implant. Anyhow, here's what i did for REALLY irregular cycles and i think based on my research it will be good for you too:
> I took agnes castus, evening primrose oil (although that is for more fertile ewcm), and L-arginine all from cd 1 up to ovulation. they got my ovulation day for cd 30 to cd 17 and the homepathy dr said they generally regulate the hormones so that your cycle is as it should! good luck!Click to expand...

The jury's out on the EPO, but I think the L-arginine and vitex took care of all of your margin's. Thx for the share.:flower:

*SS*


----------



## googly

chistiana said:


> hockey24 said:
> 
> 
> Anyone out there have a short luteal phase?
> 
> I have a 26 / 27 day cycle and didn't ovulate this month until atleast day 16 or 17. Is this enough time for the implantation to occur?
> 
> If anyone out there has a short luteal phase - how many days is that? And what do you do to improve it to allow enough time for everything to do as it should?
> 
> :wacko:
> 
> Hey it's not too bad, they say 10-11 days is enough for the fertilised egg to implant. Anyhow, here's what i did for REALLY irregular cycles and i think based on my research it will be good for you too:
> I took agnes castus, evening primrose oil (although that is for more fertile ewcm), and L-arginine all from cd 1 up to ovulation. they got my ovulation day for cd 30 to cd 17 and the homepathy dr said they generally regulate the hormones so that your cycle is as it should! good luck!Click to expand...

How much of agnus castus and L-arginine did you take daily? and when?

Thnx


----------



## LancyLass

googly said:


> LancyLass said:
> 
> 
> My temp has dropped massively the last two days (8dpo today). Last two months it's stayed up until after period starts, which the doc had said was good sign, so feeling a bit miserable today and no idea what my body is up to!
> 
> Your coverline is high this cycle though no? (maybe a bit artificially high, in fact, because of some higher temps in the follicular phase) So the actual temps today are the same as they were last cycle.... so AF may be due, but they're not any lower/worse at least.
> 
> If so, I wonder if you have the same thing as me - I have noticed that when my temps come back to 36.5, irrespective of where the coverline is, or what the preceding temps have done, I pretty much know AF is due. It's like clockwork, the day before and the first day of AF - pretty much always around 36.5, no matter what. It's almost like there is some temperature trigger point!
> 
> This LPD is frustrating though, for sure... I know at around 7, 8 dpo all I'm thinking is "hang in there, hang in there"... :hugs:Click to expand...

Yes, my temps were higher than usual all month. Even after Ov they went up higher than they'd been before. I was stupidly hoping this might have been a good sign!

Well it just started, the old :witch:. It was about 11.30pm, so not sure whether to count today as CD1 or tomorrow (or rather today, as it's now past midnight!) Think I'll go for tomorrow as that makes it an 8 day LP this month, rather than a 7 day. Makes me feel a bit better! :sad2: 

Absolutely with you on the "hang in there". That's what I've been doing for the past two days. I could feel it was coming but was willing it to wait a few more days!

I'm going to start the Vit B complex in the morning. Have got the 50mg, will see how it goes.


----------



## googly

That's definitely tomorrow for cd1 - I've read in a few places that any bleeding after 3pm you
should consider cd1 the day after.

Actually I also read in one place that cd1 is the first day you *wake up* with bleeding... That might be a bit generous in places! eg last AF for me started at 9am - feel would be a bit much to wait til the next day to count cd1... But you're for sure into the next day. 

8 days eh... That's sucky. My last LP was 7 after a couple of 9s in a row! Not amused... It sure is frustrating. See how you go on the B complex - has worked wonders for some women. I'd seek early intervention if you have another <9 day LP though, you hear the occasional good news story but it's definitely going to make things tough... 

Are you trying anything else or just the B complex?


----------



## LancyLass

googly said:


> That's definitely tomorrow for cd1 - I've read in a few places that any bleeding after 3pm you
> should consider cd1 the day after.
> 
> Actually I also read in one place that cd1 is the first day you *wake up* with bleeding... That might be a bit generous in places! eg last AF for me started at 9am - feel would be a bit much to wait til the next day to count cd1... But you're for sure into the next day.
> 
> 8 days eh... That's sucky. My last LP was 7 after a couple of 9s in a row! Not amused... It sure is frustrating. See how you go on the B complex - has worked wonders for some women. I'd seek early intervention if you have another <9 day LP though, you hear the occasional good news story but it's definitely going to make things tough...
> 
> Are you trying anything else or just the B complex?

That's interesting! I've probably miscounted a few times where it's been after 3pm in that case. In fact that might have made last month's a 10 day LP rather than 9 day. :happydance:

No, just trying the B complex. I'm going to try things one at a time. That way if anything does help I'll know which it is. Plus I'm a bit of a scaredy cat when it comes to taking any sort of supplement so I don't want to take too much at once!

I've had progesterone tests this month and going for FSH/LH on Monday, so the investigative wheels are already rolling which is at least something positive.


----------



## greengerbera

Hi Lancylass - Sorry to hear that the :witch: got you .... I would definitely count CD1 from tomorrow (as I have read Midday should be the next day point!.

It is hopefully that you think you might of had 10 days last month - were you on any meds that month?? Also strange that you are seeing quite a bit of difference in your days ??? 8 days this month - 10 last???

B-Complex is worth trying - there are so many stories on the internet where women have claimed it has helped their luteal phase - I would start of with 50g and see where it goes... I take 100g but doesn't seem to make any difference - and I am slightly reluctant to up the dose further as I have read about birth defects etc.. not sure how true this is - but didn't want to take the risk...

At least by starting the blood tests this might shed some light on things...

How long have you been trying to conceive if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## LancyLass

greengerbera said:


> It is hopefully that you think you might of had 10 days last month - were you on any meds that month?? Also strange that you are seeing quite a bit of difference in your days ??? 8 days this month - 10 last???

It is, and I haven't tried any meds or supplements or anything. Although my OV date for this last cycle is a bit dubious - I didn't get any +ve opks and fertility friend has only put it as a dashed line. There is a small possibility it could have been two days earlier (although that wouldn't match my CM) - which would make it a 10 day LP also. Two months ago it was about 7 days, but that might not be entirely accurate because I was very ill with gastroentiritis (had to be hospitalised from dehydration) so I couldn't accurately track my temp around OV time as I had a fever, plus being ill can throw your cycles out anyway. So maybe the outlook is not as bleak for me as I originally thought! Need to give it a few more months and see how my charts pan out.



greengerbera said:


> How long have you been trying to conceive if you don't mind me asking?

Not long. Just the last three cycles with charting and previously about a month with half-hearted NTNP! I went to see the docs as soon as it looked like I was getting a pattern of short LPs as with my age I thought there's no point hanging around and waiting if it's already clear there's a problem and she agreed to the tests. Plus she said I could start trying drugs if I wanted once we get to 6 months TTC, plus we should test DH's :spermy:. From others' experiences it sounds like I've been lucky with the doc so far.

What about you?


----------



## NorthStar

CD1 is counted as the first day of RED blood, ie you may have some brown (old) blood the first day but it would not count as CD1 until the next day when the blood was red (regardless of time of day).

I didn't know this the first month or two, and I used to be puzzled when people would talk about their temps dropping on CD1 and mine was still up - becuase I shouldn't have counted CD1 until the next day.

There really is a lot to learn on this TTC stuff.


----------



## greengerbera

You are so lucky with your Doc .... can't believe the difference from area to area ....

My doc made the process for me really difficult - she made me wait till exactly a year of conceiving to the day!! (as she could see when I had my coil removed!!) ... and would not budge for an earlier appointment. 

I had my coil removed in Aug 2010 - but to be honest wasn't really trying for the first few months - then did fall pregnant in Dec - but sadly miscarried at 6 weeks - then gave myself a month clearance - and started again in Feb 2011 with charting and clear blue monitor and different supplements... Also having accupunture twice a month to see if that possibly helps...

It makes such a difference if you have a nice doc... you are very lucky..


----------



## NorthStar

Mine was ok the first time I saw her (to ask for mini BCP to extend cycle and align my dates with OH work schedule) but the next time I went in she said that I couldn't keep doing this - I'd had an early AF which as it turned out was a side effect of the EPO but I didn't realise that the first time it happened.

I don't know why some people become GPs if they don't actually LIKE people, but it seems to be fairly common.


----------



## chistiana

googly said:


> chistiana said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hockey24 said:
> 
> 
> Anyone out there have a short luteal phase?
> 
> I have a 26 / 27 day cycle and didn't ovulate this month until atleast day 16 or 17. Is this enough time for the implantation to occur?
> 
> If anyone out there has a short luteal phase - how many days is that? And what do you do to improve it to allow enough time for everything to do as it should?
> 
> :wacko:
> 
> Hey it's not too bad, they say 10-11 days is enough for the fertilised egg to implant. Anyhow, here's what i did for REALLY irregular cycles and i think based on my research it will be good for you too:
> I took agnes castus, evening primrose oil (although that is for more fertile ewcm), and L-arginine all from cd 1 up to ovulation. they got my ovulation day for cd 30 to cd 17 and the homepathy dr said they generally regulate the hormones so that your cycle is as it should! good luck!Click to expand...
> 
> How much of agnus castus and L-arginine did you take daily? and when?
> 
> ThnxClick to expand...

sorry for being so late, my son was down with a horrible flu and it's been 24/7! I took 900 mg agnus castus twice a day and 1 tablet l arginine 500mg a day. Ow also 3 tablets of M2-Tone.


----------



## LancyLass

NorthStar said:


> CD1 is counted as the first day of RED blood, ie you may have some brown (old) blood the first day but it would not count as CD1 until the next day when the blood was red (regardless of time of day).
> 
> I didn't know this the first month or two, and I used to be puzzled when people would talk about their temps dropping on CD1 and mine was still up - becuase I shouldn't have counted CD1 until the next day.
> 
> There really is a lot to learn on this TTC stuff.

Too right! I've been wondering the same thing about my temp still being up on CD1 (apart from this last cycle) so it's looking like I've been doing the same thing!



greengerbera said:


> You are so lucky with your Doc .... can't believe the difference from area to area ....
> 
> It makes such a difference if you have a nice doc... you are very lucky..

It helps that it's someone I know socially too! I wouldn't normally go to a doc if it's someone I know, but she happens to be the practice "expert" in family planning matters so she was the best person to go to. I've had some right old nightmares in the past though I can tell you! Not about TTC but general stuff, but am determined not to be messed around on this as time isn't on my side!!


NorthStar said:


> I don't know why some people become GPs if they don't actually LIKE people, but it seems to be fairly common.

 :haha:


----------



## Viking15

Second cycle on the B complex. LP this month was only 11 days. A short cycle at 24 days. Not sure what's up with me. Before I went on BCP my cycles ran longer than 28 days. I did not have my Rx prenatal this month. Just an over the counter one. My husband lost his job so I couldn't justify a $50 on a bottle of vitamins when I knew we would not conceive this past cycle anyhow. I don't know if that made my LP a little shorter or not. I have no idea what is in those things. 
BTW, I read that taking lots of B6 can cause nerve damage. Just a heads up to all of you out there. :dust:


----------



## LancyLass

Viking15 said:


> BTW, I read that taking lots of B6 can cause nerve damage. Just a heads up to all of you out there. :dust:

I've read that it's over 200mg a day that's the dangerous amount. Although my bottle says "Long term intake of amounts greater than 10mg daily of Vitamin B6 may lead to mild tingling and numbness." But they're probably just covering themselves. I checked with my doc and she said there's "no harm" in taking it... Of course, here's hoping none of us will be taking it "long term"!! 

I'm half way through 1st cycle on it. That bright neon yellow wee is entertaining!


----------



## greengerbera

Hi Everyone...

I am now in my 2WW and as usual counting my luteal phase days in the hope that they might go past the 9 day mark - which I usually I am always stopping at..

This month I am confused ...

I am using a Clearblue Monitor which gave my peak at CD15 - which makes me 9 days today

However using Fertility Friend (Charting) it has calculated my luteal phase as being 8 days - going by my temperatures.

What system is more accurate - Clearblue or Charting ???

I am hoping clearblue - as this could mean that I could reach my 10 Day luteal phase goal tomorrow!! :o)


----------



## LancyLass

greengerbera said:


> Hi Everyone...
> 
> I am now in my 2WW and as usual counting my luteal phase days in the hope that they might go past the 9 day mark - which I usually I am always stopping at..
> 
> This month I am confused ...
> 
> I am using a Clearblue Monitor which gave my peak at CD15 - which makes me 9 days today
> 
> However using Fertility Friend (Charting) it has calculated my luteal phase as being 8 days - going by my temperatures.
> 
> What system is more accurate - Clearblue or Charting ???
> 
> I am hoping clearblue - as this could mean that I could reach my 10 Day luteal phase goal tomorrow!! :o)

I've not used a Clearblue monitor so I don't really know how they work, but I thought they monitored your peak/surge of LH to indicate when you should be :sex:? IF that is the case, then your LH surge will be just before ovulation. It's the LH surge that causes the egg to release for ovulation - so your LH surge will always be a day or two before actual ovulation. So you should go from FF - i.e. your temps - to indicate actual day of ovulation. Sorry, that makes it a shorter LP for you :(.

You should post a link to your FF chart - then we can all have a nosey and give our 'expert' opinions!! ;)


----------



## googly

LancyLass said:


> You should post a link to your FF chart - then we can all have a nosey and give our 'expert' opinions!! ;)

Hey LancyLass, talking of charts - looks like you o'd yesterday as you were hoping? :thumbup:


----------



## LancyLass

googly said:


> LancyLass said:
> 
> 
> You should post a link to your FF chart - then we can all have a nosey and give our 'expert' opinions!! ;)
> 
> Hey LancyLass, talking of charts - looks like you o'd yesterday as you were hoping? :thumbup:Click to expand...

Yup! :happydance: Was just about to post about it in the other thread!


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## greengerbera

Many Thanks for your help ...

Unfortunately :witch: came at 2pm today :cry:

So another short LP for me ...

It is so frustrating as just can't seem to extend it ...

Been taking Vitex all this month and will continue with that ... Got my HSG this month - so that will help to see if there are any blockages etc.. and then another FS appointment booked for the 28th Sept .. Hopefully I might get some help for this frustrating problem...

Good Luck Lancy Lass with Big O ... Hopefully this is your month - would be brill if someone with a short LP gets a BFP!!!


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## googly

Sorry the :witch: got you greengerbera! :hugs: It's extremely frustrating isn't it.... 

How long have you been on B6 / agnus castus now? I was on it for 3 months with no appreciable improvement for me... however -- I only gave it up to go on to Clomid - as they don't mix - otherwise I would have kept at it because I understand it often takes at least 3 months to build up in your system and have effect. So hang in there... 

I don't know about the B6 - I'm still taking it but I don't know that it's doing anything for me. From the other short LP/B6 thread it seemed to me that that worked quite quickly for the ones it was going to work for (presumably those that had a B6 deficiency). I guess there are a lot of reasons for/causes of a short LP - it's a question of finding what makes the difference for you.

Have you seen/are you planning to see a doc?


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## greengerbera

Thanks Googly..

I am seeing the doc 28th Sept .. so I am hoping that I will also be prescribed Clomid - and then will stop taking the Vitex..

I have only been taking the Vitex for 1 month - so will keep going with it for this month whilst I wait for the appointment - to see if anything happens - but not holding out ...

I am really watching you - googly - that fingers crossed the Clomid works for you!!

Are you getting any side effects off it?? Is this your first cycle using it?


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## LancyLass

Googly - I see you're at 7dpo. Keeping FX for you!
My temp went up again today, so even though FF hasn't called it yet, it's def looking like O for yesterday. So here's FX for the B6 making a difference this cycle...


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## googly

Thanks gals, yeah it's going to be difficult to tell my LP this month because despite was FF says, I suspect I'm only at 5dpo - the two high temps I had cd16/17 may well have been due to a bad cold i had, meaning ov was probably more like cd18. Maybe, maybe not! But will be difficult to say for sure by the end of it.

One thing I plan to do - picking up a discussion in another thread is wait as long as possible and then test, even if I'm convinced AF is going to arrive. Previously I've not bothered in that situation - figure it's not worth wasting a test - but now I want to see if there's ANY sign of a BFP - even if AF immediately appears. Just want to see if it's even getting that far...

Of course if my LP ends up at 7 days again that plan probably isn't going to work! :D

Re the Clomid - no, no side effects at all that I know of. I'm doing unmonitored for 3 cycles then will look at some monitored cycles which might be good to keep an eye on how the uterine lining develops. I really suspect that might be a component of the problem... Will see.


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## greengerbera

Googly - Keep us posted then on your progress - fingers crossed you see a massive improvement in your LP this month ... and a BFP!!!

Lancylass - Congrats on the O - now the countdown begins ... it would be great if you see a big improvement just using B6 - I have heard lots of stories that this has helped ladies get their BFP first cycle of taking - so hopefully you are one of them!!


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## LancyLass

I'm off away for a few days now for a stay in a nice hotel with DH (shame it wasn't last week when all the BDing was required!) So here's hoping the :spermy: has found the egg and a bit of rest and relaxation will help it implant! By the time I come back it'll be about 6 or 7 dpo so I'll be on full scale AF symptom alert and hoping to make it to at least 10 days. Will keep you all posted of course.


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## googly

Hey LancyLass have an awesome break - hopefully it will be good for avoiding the symptom spotting for a few days! :D


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