# Video about forward facing carseats *upsetting*



## nervousgal

PLEASE NOTE:
This topic is being monitored by the admin and moderating team!
___

After watching this video, I decided to keep my baby's car seat rear facing for as long as possible. So sad. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8gU9zzCGA8


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## NeyNey

It makes perfect sense, but something most of us don't even consider. I will definitely keep Dylan rear facing as long as I possibly can. Thanks for sharing, I was so glad to see the ending and to hear that Dr's managed to repair his neck....


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## NG09

Fab, another scaremonger video, just what we all need. Thanks for that.


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## Fliss_floss

NG09 said:


> Fab, another scaremonger video, just what we all need. Thanks for that.

Agreed


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## moomoo

Extended rear facing does not fit in our car!! Thanks for making me feel better about it!? :roll:


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## NG09

Sometimes people can be so thoughtless, beggers belief! :nope:


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## xbabybumpx

NG09 said:


> Fab, another scaremonger video, just what we all need. Thanks for that.

I Was actually gonna post something similar to what you just said but i deleted because i always get jumped on when others get away with it. But yeah,i agree with you


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## Blah11

Its not scare mongering actually. The UK are way behind in carseat safety compared with sweden and other scandanavian countries and it's common over there for children to rear face until they're 4.

Amelie will be extended rear facing until she's 4 too. I got her car seat imported from carseat.se. A bit more expensive but well worth it.


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## Blah11

& Its the same people who are nasty over and over in these threads. ERF threads have been made loads of times and the original OP has NEVER been called thoughtless :shock:


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## xbabybumpx

Oh here comes the headmaster. Im out ladies. Goodbye


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## louandivy

NG09 said:


> Fab, another scaremonger video, just what we all need. Thanks for that.

I agree its a bit scaremongering but no need to be rude to the OP, she _did_ warn that it was upsetting!


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## Blah11

Would you not rather be informed then make your own decision when you know all the facts and whats available to you?


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## Scally

Blah11 said:


> Its not scare mongering actually. The UK are way behind in carseat safety compared with sweden and other scandanavian countries and it's common over there for children to rear face until they're 4.
> 
> Amelie will be extended rear facing until she's 4 too. I got her car seat imported from carseat.se. A bit more expensive but well worth it.

agreed x


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## redpoppy

I think we should all revisit this thread once we've all had some sleep, some relaxation, gotten laid, had some me time, once our hormones balance out and we have time to indulge in our favourite pastime.

See you all in 18 years!


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## louandivy

redpoppy said:


> I think we should all revisit this thread once we've all had some sleep, some relaxation, gotten laid, had some me time, once our hormones balance out and we have time to indulge in our favourite pastime.
> 
> See you all in 18 years!

:rofl: thanks for cheering me up on this particularly gloomy morning :thumbup:


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## moomoo

redpoppy said:


> I think we should all revisit this thread once we've all had some sleep, some relaxation, gotten laid, had some me time, once our hormones balance out and we have time to indulge in our favourite pastime.
> 
> See you all in 18 years!

:rofl: I don't think 18 will be enough for me!! :)


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## Mrs A

getting quite bored of these discussions to be honest, everyone who is looking into buying Rf or ff facing car seats for their child should be well informed as to the safest yadayada, at the end of the day everyone makes their own decisions about it- end of.
I personally dont think some random person on a forum "informing" me of the "best" safety for my child is something i personally will listen to, im getting quite bored of reading the posts, why does everthing on here have to result in a you vs us kinda thing BORING!!!


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## dani_tinks

Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs. 

p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!


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## jenniferannex

what happens if someone crashes into the back of your car and the child is rearfacing?? surely that can cause alot of damage aswell. 
crashes dont always happen from the front.


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## Vici

Sadly, ERF doesn't just mean a more expensive car seat for some - it also means a new car!!


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## Blah11

jenniferannex said:


> what happens if someone crashes into the back of your car and the child is rearfacing?? surely that can cause alot of damage aswell.
> crashes dont always happen from the front.

Of course not but its all down to number crunching. Its minimising the risk factor and fatal head on collisions are far more common than fatal rear end collisions. I'd rather a broken leg than a broken neck :shrug:


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## Wobbles

I can't bring myself to watch the video, that's called choice which all of you have. Update have now watched the video and left further comment here: #*38*

Sadly VERY sadly car safety is a big topic for us all not only for our children but for ourselves so why do we need to turn on these threads? You could watch and it may even help you make a different decision to the car safety you use currently or you may (even after further research) keep using your current safety way. 

The only frustrating part from me personally is how different countries have different guidelines and recommendations that however doesn't require a war thread? Members should remember our community is used by members all over the world.

The start of these threads could be more informative though rather than just a video. There's no information available along with this video from different sourced guidelines to compare and then a reasonable discussion could follow because there's actually something to discuss? But even so ....


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## babz1986

the way I always see it, you can only take so many measure's to protect your children - I know a lot of children who aren't happy in rear facing seats and prefer forward facing - put them in rear facing and it equals some very unhappy screaming babies, which in turns results in a very distracted driver! I know i'd prefer to have a happy child in a forward facing seat in order to be able to concentrate on my driving, meaning hopefully safer journey on the whole!

You can only drive as safe as you can - your not in control of other vehicles - like some one has said, crashes don't just happen at the front - there's also side impacts - wonder how any of the seats would react then?

obviously take as many safety precautions as possible and i'm sure everyone is aware of the risks involved in every option they choose to do - just exactly the same as i'm sure your all aware of crossing the road could result in been run over by a bus!


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## louandivy

babz1986 said:


> the way I always see it, you can only take so many measure's to protect your children - I know a lot of children who aren't happy in rear facing seats and prefer forward facing - put them in rear facing and it equals some very unhappy screaming babies, which in turns results in a very distracted driver! I know i'd prefer to have a happy child in a forward facing seat in order to be able to concentrate on my driving, meaning hopefully safer journey on the whole!
> 
> You can only drive as safe as you can - your not in control of other vehicles - like some one has said, crashes don't just happen at the front - there's also side impacts - wonder how any of the seats would react then?
> 
> obviously take as many safety precautions as possible and i'm sure everyone is aware of the risks involved in every option they choose to do - just exactly the same as i'm sure your all aware of crossing the road could result in been run over by a bus!

Sorry to go OT but your LO is sooo damn cute I always think 'awwwww' when I see your avatar!


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## babz1986

louandivy said:


> Sorry to go OT but your LO is sooo damn cute I always think 'awwwww' when I see your avatar!

haha thats an old pic now!! she's changed and her smiles got even more cheeky!! but thanks!! All the babies on here are all cuties!


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## NG09

Louandivy - Don't actually think I was being rude, probably better to respond to OP if you have something to say rather than trying to pick at my post.

Blah11 - Not scaremongering in your opinion. 

TBH I'm sooooooo bored of these threads too, like someone else said on another thread, same shit different day. :roll:


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## Blah11

Of course it's in my opinion, I can't give someone elses opinion. + If you're bored of these threads then don't post in them and don't participate in the discussion. There's not any need to be rude about it as some people will find this thread helpful and interesting.


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## AppleBlossom

dani_tinks said:


> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!

Agree.

We aren't stupid. We all know the risks of FF seats. I'm sure you will be horrified to know that my LO was in a FF seat from 9 months-ish because she outgrew her RF seat and I couldn't afford another one (I now use a FF one that I was given by my parents) I didn't just think, hey, screw it. She can FF. I really don't think it is necessary to post a video to scare people and make them feel bad for FF. I haven't watched the video because I really don't want or need to. Sorry to be so blunt but I just really don't see the point in it or half the other threads in this section which are quite obviously started to rile people and cause arguments


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## NG09

Blah11 said:


> Of course it's in my opinion, I can't give someone elses opinion. + If you're bored of these threads then don't post in them and don't participate in the discussion. There's not any need to be rude about it as some people will find this thread helpful and interesting.

TBH I don't find it helpful or interesting that my niece stands a chance of having her skull separated from her spine if my sister is in a car accident. That info I could well do without. But your right, maybe I shouldn't post anymore, maybe nobody should if they have a different opinion to the OP. 

Anyhoo...... enjoy the next 40 pages of tosh!!!


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## Blah11

what video was it? cant see as im at work :shrug: the one with the crash test dummies?


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## Blah11

NG09 said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Of course it's in my opinion, I can't give someone elses opinion. + If you're bored of these threads then don't post in them and don't participate in the discussion. There's not any need to be rude about it as some people will find this thread helpful and interesting.
> 
> TBH I don't find it helpful or interesting that my niece stands a chance of having her skull separated from her spine if my sister is in a car accident. That info I could well do without. But your right, maybe I shouldn't post anymore, maybe nobody should if they have a different opinion to the OP.
> 
> Anyhoo...... enjoy the next 40 pages of tosh!!!Click to expand...

:wacko: ok, let's just leave it at that!


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## NG09

Blah11 said:


> what video was it? cant see as im at work :shrug: the one with the crash test dummies?

No it's graphic pics of a baby with a broken neck.


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## Gingerspice

I think it is good that something like this is raised as there may be people on here who are not aware of the benefits of keeping a LO rearfacing for longer. 
But it perhaps has been raised in the wrong way here with just a video, but the OP had good intentions at heart to let other people know of something which might make a difference to someones baby on here surviving after a crash and not.
Yes, we all make decisions everyday about what is best, and for some, as a PP already said their child might hate being RF so keeping the, RF for a long time will make all journeys terrible, when an accident may never happen. It is about risk analysis, which we all do, so don't feel picked on if you have already analysed and made a decision to go with FF, that is your decision - just as those that have chosen to stick with ERF, that was your decision. It does not need to be made into a 'ERF parents are better' or any other similar angle, so thankyou for increasing awareness to some who may not have already known of the benefits of ERF, but everyone take a chill pill and don't take something so personally when it is a decision you've made whether to follow additional advice etc.


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## louandivy

But if the OP has stated in the title that it was an upsetting vid about FF carseats and you didn't want to be made to feel bad then why would you open the thread?

(I am not pro-FF or RF by the way)


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## Vici

Its raised at least once a week! It would be far better if the thread abuot info on ERF was used instead of posting the same thing over and over :)


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## Gingerspice

Yes, but with a baby born every 60 seconds in the UK alone, I am assuming new parents join this forum each day, let alone a week, so if you've read all the posts about FF/ERF before then just leave them for others who haven't yet, unless you're deliberately looking to start an argument and complain about how you are not wanting to know about ERF again and again because you have decided not to go down the route. 
Its a shame that anything that is designed to raise awareness then always ends up split into two main groups and then they argue and moan about how they cannot follow that route, or have decided not to etc. 'CC or CIO, Forumla or BM etc etc'


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## Mum2b_Claire

I'm sorry, but I would far rather know that I was doing something risky than not. OK so the video is emotive but it is not scaremongering because it is does have a basis of FACT. 

I don't see any FF vs RF debate - I don't think there is a debate AT ALL. If you weigh up the risks and costs and decide in your situation the best you can do is FF, then that is it, the best you can do. But it IS far more safe for them to be RF.


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## Wobbles

Actually I have now watched this video and this man has given a brief of some good information that they found AFTER a serious car accident, it's not in bad taste at all (like some have been over time, that's why I hesitated, sorry). The family have lived through this moment, have shared their story and their findings afterwards. My children use front facing car seats, I'm not offended :shrug: Please can members also realise just because they have discussed this topic before doesn't mean everyone has, we have new members join every day.


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## redpoppy

I didn't watch the video and never have as they seem to be posted often. It's a video which is upsetting about baby carseats. Why would anyone want to watch it? It's not a feelgood comedy. 

We do have ERF but we're lucky enough to have a big car and the money to afford it. (although OH loses his job end of the month so not for long!)

Some people barely afford a car seat. People make their choices about their babies. I can't get over the rage that starts flying round on things. But then i am snugly tucked away in bed with baby napping next door. We both have colds but the rest is heavenly. :blush::haha:


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## Vici

Gingerspice said:


> Yes, but with a baby born every 60 seconds in the UK alone, I am assuming new parents join this forum each day, let alone a week, so if you've read all the posts about FF/ERF before then just leave them for others who haven't yet, unless you're deliberately looking to start an argument and complain about how you are not wanting to know about ERF again and again because you have decided not to go down the route.

As far from the truth as is possible - however, I do believe that an informative thread giving info on ERF (that currently exists and is always kept bumped!!), sites that seats can be bought from, videos for people to watch is far more informative than random threads repeating the same video with no info just stating how awful FF is!!

Just because I don't ERF doesn't mean I don't seen the benefits of it, its just on looking at our situation, it is not possible for us!


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## xbabybumpx

redpoppy said:


> I didn't watch the video and never have as they seem to be posted often. It's a video which is upsetting about baby carseats. Why would anyone want to watch it? It's not a feelgood comedy.
> 
> We do have ERF but we're lucky enough to have a big car and the money to afford it. (although OH loses his job end of the month so not for long!)
> 
> Some people barely afford a car seat. People make their choices about their babies. I can't get over the rage that starts flying round on things. But then i am snugly tucked away in bed with baby napping next door. We both have colds but the rest is heavenly. :blush::haha:

which carseat do you have? ive just looked at mothercare ones and you only can put them rf until approx 15 months then put it ff until 4 years. Are they all like that?


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## Vici

https://www.babyandbump.com/natural-parenting/253346-rear-facing-support-questions-answers.html


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## xbabybumpx

Vici said:


> Gingerspice said:
> 
> 
> Yes, but with a baby born every 60 seconds in the UK alone, I am assuming new parents join this forum each day, let alone a week, so if you've read all the posts about FF/ERF before then just leave them for others who haven't yet, unless you're deliberately looking to start an argument and complain about how you are not wanting to know about ERF again and again because you have decided not to go down the route.
> 
> As far from the truth as is possible - however, I do believe that an informative thread giving info on ERF (that currently exists and is always kept bumped!!), sites that seats can be bought from, videos for people to watch is far more informative than random threads repeating the same video with no info just stating how awful FF is!!
> 
> Just because I don't ERF doesn't mean I don't seen the benefits of it, its just on looking at our situation, it is not possible for us!Click to expand...

Where is this thread hun? i would like to read it:thumbup:


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## xbabybumpx

oh you beat me to it ha ha xox


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## Lu28

Why is it that when people feel uncomfortable about seeing something these days that they automatically say it's scaremongering? That video makes very uncomfortable watching for me because Aisling is forward facing. She gets very upset in the car when she's rear facing and after alot of thought and debate and going back and forth on it, we decided to let her forward face. So yes, watching that video makes me uncomfortable - but it's the reality of forward facing and I think everyone should be aware of the risks if that's what they decide to do.

Maybe you can't fit a ERF seat in your car, maybe like my LO they can't or won't cope with rear facing but alot of parents make a conscious decision to do everything they can to ERF, including buying a new car and fair play to them. If, like me, you've decided that FF is the best or right decision for you, then own that decision and don't accuse others of scaremongering simply because they're trying to raise awareness.

This is an area where people technically know that ERF is best but they don't really know why - I know none of my family and friends knows the reasons and I had to sit down and explain it to my sister the other day because she wanted to move her daughter into FF a bit early. She's now a convert and is going to ERF as long as possible.

It would be nice if BnB could be used for informative subjects, even those which make people uncomfortable, without the OP getting jumped on :wacko:


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## Mum2b_Claire

Vici said:


> Gingerspice said:
> 
> 
> Yes, but with a baby born every 60 seconds in the UK alone, I am assuming new parents join this forum each day, let alone a week, so if you've read all the posts about FF/ERF before then just leave them for others who haven't yet, unless you're deliberately looking to start an argument and complain about how you are not wanting to know about ERF again and again because you have decided not to go down the route.
> 
> As far from the truth as is possible - however, I do believe that an informative thread giving info on ERF (that currently exists and is always kept bumped!!), sites that seats can be bought from, videos for people to watch is far more informative than random threads repeating the same video with no info just stating how awful FF is!!
> 
> Just because I don't ERF doesn't mean I don't seen the benefits of it, its just on looking at our situation, it is not possible for us!Click to expand...

Vici, how do you know the OP even knew these types of videos had been posted before? It didn't sound like it to me. It also did not sound like she was slating FF - just promoting RF. Not the same thing at all.

If you see the benefits, why not just let others look at the video for what it is and not criticise.


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## xbabybumpx

Lu28 said:


> Why is it that when people feel uncomfortable about seeing something these days that they automatically say it's scaremongering? That video makes very uncomfortable watching for me because Aisling is forward facing. She gets very upset in the car when she's rear facing and after alot of thought and debate and going back and forth on it, we decided to let her forward face. So yes, watching that video makes me uncomfortable - but it's the reality of forward facing and I think everyone should be aware of the risks if that's what they decide to do.
> 
> Maybe you can't fit a ERF seat in your car, maybe like my LO they can't or won't cope with rear facing but alot of parents make a conscious decision to do everything they can to ERF, including buying a new car and fair play to them. If, like me, you've decided that FF is the best or right decision for you, then own that decision and don't accuse others of scaremongering simply because they're trying to raise awareness.
> 
> This is an area where people technically know that ERF is best but they don't really know why - I know none of my family and friends knows the reasons and I had to sit down and explain it to my sister the other day because she wanted to move her daughter into FF a bit early. She's now a convert and is going to ERF as long as possible.
> 
> It would be nice if BnB could be used for informative subjects, even those which make people uncomfortable, without the OP getting jumped on :wacko:

Did your lo always hate rf? I mean when she was in the baby carseat? charlotte is fine in her carseat and doesint cry but when/if i get an ERFcarseat im worried she wont like that fact she cant see us xox


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## xbabybumpx

Ive just looked at pics of kids in RF carseats and there seems to be not much leg room at all xox


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## Blaumba

This is NOT scaremongering!
The info and images in the video are facts and what happened to a REAL child!
Children are safe in forward facing car seats, of course they are.. BUT, they are 5x safer in rear facing. This is a FACT! In ANY type of accident a child is safer rear facing.
I wish the laws in this country would be changed to force parents to ERF but more so to force car seat manufacturers into selling affordable ERF seats because the ERF seats imported by UK parents are made by the same companies as one's available here. It makes no sense at all. As for unhappy babies being RF, how, if they go from their RF infant seat to RF stage 2 seat do they know any different? The comment about prefering a happy baby forward facing is maddness. I would rather have a moaning child RF but 5x safer than a happy child FF with reduced safety.
I think it's crazy that people are getting angry at this thread. 
Here is some info on ERF and it's benefits:

https://www.carseat.se/the-swedish-rear-facing-car-seat-approach/

Some info about side collisions in RF:

https://www.carseat.se/rear-facing-and-side-impact-collisions/

Some practical info about how to keep LO RF with small cars and objectional RF travellers:

https://www.carseat.se/rear-facing-and-side-impact-collisions/

I hope someone who has yet to make the choice on stage 2 seats finds this useful because until the laws change it's down to us to inform each other about these things.


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## Lu28

xbabybumpx said:


> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> Why is it that when people feel uncomfortable about seeing something these days that they automatically say it's scaremongering? That video makes very uncomfortable watching for me because Aisling is forward facing. She gets very upset in the car when she's rear facing and after alot of thought and debate and going back and forth on it, we decided to let her forward face. So yes, watching that video makes me uncomfortable - but it's the reality of forward facing and I think everyone should be aware of the risks if that's what they decide to do.
> 
> Maybe you can't fit a ERF seat in your car, maybe like my LO they can't or won't cope with rear facing but alot of parents make a conscious decision to do everything they can to ERF, including buying a new car and fair play to them. If, like me, you've decided that FF is the best or right decision for you, then own that decision and don't accuse others of scaremongering simply because they're trying to raise awareness.
> 
> This is an area where people technically know that ERF is best but they don't really know why - I know none of my family and friends knows the reasons and I had to sit down and explain it to my sister the other day because she wanted to move her daughter into FF a bit early. She's now a convert and is going to ERF as long as possible.
> 
> It would be nice if BnB could be used for informative subjects, even those which make people uncomfortable, without the OP getting jumped on :wacko:
> 
> Did your lo always hate rf? I mean when she was in the baby carseat? charlotte is fine in her carseat and doesint cry but when/if i get an ERFcarseat im worried she wont like that fact she cant see us xoxClick to expand...

We got a Britax First Class seat so that it faces both ways so we'd have more choice. She was more than happy in her infant carrier and was happy rearfacing initially but once she got to about a year old, she didn't like that she couldn't see us I think and ended up very upset every time we were in the car. I'm still not sure we made the right decision to start FF instead but it was getting to the point where I didn't want to use the car at all!


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## Vici

Becuase by the nature of humans, when someone would like to do something that they are unable to do, it gets them on the defensive! Perfectly normal IMO. I'd love to ERF and all that happens when these posts are made is another little dig (although I understand not intentionally) about those who can't. Yes, people could steer clear of them but they don't. I never slated the OP once, just suggested that the thread may have been best in and along side the ERF thread which I stand by!

Can any ERF tell me how i can ERF in my car? Its an MG ZR 3 door hatch!


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## SKATERBUN

Well I like others did think it was scaremongering at first as its just a video and its not until I read others replies that I realised the dangers of FF carseats. However that doesnt make me feel comfortable as 1) LO is outgrowing her RF carseat fast! she has ultra long legs and arms and she is in a seat designed to hold her up until the age of 9 months - 12 but she is already getting to big for it at 5 months. 2) The carseats that blah mentioned that you can import from sweden and maybe be able to buy in the UK look expensive, whats the average price for a FF carseat in comparision? A lot of ladies including myself probably on a budget wouldnt pay this sort of price normally for a carseat, but if it means saving the life of our LO's we would pay the price so to speak. also do they fit all our British cars?

Yes so I found the thread helpful in the respect that its the first Ive seen of its kind, been a member for almost a year and its the first time Ive heard this mentioned. So I guess if its highlighting the fact that these FF seats are a danger then it can only be good, The more mums & dads aware the more campaigning can be done to get the law changed. I mean if Sweden are in the EU and the UK is also why isn't there some kind of EU law to make it the same across Europe, why arn't UK manufacturers waking up to the idea, is the government not concerned? I've got some more reading to do on the subject, but thanks OP for highlighting this to me, though I am not ready to watch said video :wacko:


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## redpoppy

xbabybumpx said:


> redpoppy said:
> 
> 
> I didn't watch the video and never have as they seem to be posted often. It's a video which is upsetting about baby carseats. Why would anyone want to watch it? It's not a feelgood comedy.
> 
> We do have ERF but we're lucky enough to have a big car and the money to afford it. (although OH loses his job end of the month so not for long!)
> 
> Some people barely afford a car seat. People make their choices about their babies. I can't get over the rage that starts flying round on things. But then i am snugly tucked away in bed with baby napping next door. We both have colds but the rest is heavenly. :blush::haha:
> 
> which carseat do you have? ive just looked at mothercare ones and you only can put them rf until approx 15 months then put it ff until 4 years. Are they all like that?Click to expand...

we have the Britax multitech which we drive all the way to babyworld to have put in our car to see if we preferred it to the besafe combi 3. It is pricey but apparently rf till 4 yearsish and then ff till around seven years.

Carseat.se is a very VERY good website for info. :flower:


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## hayley x

I dont think its scaremongering, its raising awareness - theres a difference!

Daisy's still in her baby carrier we are almost definate we will keep her rear facing, and lucky that we have a ERF car centre half hour down the road.

xxx


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## AppleBlossom

I agree with Vici. People have every right to get defensive when someone says "You are putting your baby at risk by doing/not doing x, y and z" and you can't do them for whatever reason. My LO was all hunched up in her RF seat and her legs were all buckled because they were too long. She looked so uncomfortable and hated being in there and cried all the time. I didn't make the decision to put her FF for the hell of it. There was 'method in the madness' and I stick by it. Perhaps just some general guidelines would suffice rather than a video of a severely injured child? I haven't and won't be watching the video


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## xbabybumpx

Lu28 said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> Why is it that when people feel uncomfortable about seeing something these days that they automatically say it's scaremongering? That video makes very uncomfortable watching for me because Aisling is forward facing. She gets very upset in the car when she's rear facing and after alot of thought and debate and going back and forth on it, we decided to let her forward face. So yes, watching that video makes me uncomfortable - but it's the reality of forward facing and I think everyone should be aware of the risks if that's what they decide to do.
> 
> Maybe you can't fit a ERF seat in your car, maybe like my LO they can't or won't cope with rear facing but alot of parents make a conscious decision to do everything they can to ERF, including buying a new car and fair play to them. If, like me, you've decided that FF is the best or right decision for you, then own that decision and don't accuse others of scaremongering simply because they're trying to raise awareness.
> 
> This is an area where people technically know that ERF is best but they don't really know why - I know none of my family and friends knows the reasons and I had to sit down and explain it to my sister the other day because she wanted to move her daughter into FF a bit early. She's now a convert and is going to ERF as long as possible.
> 
> It would be nice if BnB could be used for informative subjects, even those which make people uncomfortable, without the OP getting jumped on :wacko:
> 
> Did your lo always hate rf? I mean when she was in the baby carseat? charlotte is fine in her carseat and doesint cry but when/if i get an ERFcarseat im worried she wont like that fact she cant see us xoxClick to expand...
> 
> We got a Britax First Class seat so that it faces both ways so we'd have more choice. She was more than happy in her infant carrier and was happy rearfacing initially but once she got to about a year old, she didn't like that she couldn't see us I think and ended up very upset every time we were in the car. I'm still not sure we made the right decision to start FF instead but it was getting to the point where I didn't want to use the car at all!Click to expand...

It sounds like you made the right decision for you. I would think you would be more at risk of having a crash having a crying/screaming child in the car:flower:


----------



## Lu28

Blaumba said:


> This is NOT scaremongering!
> The info and images in the video are facts and what happened to a REAL child!
> Children are safe in forward facing car seats, of course they are.. BUT, they are 5x safer in rear facing. This is a FACT! In ANY type of accident a child is safer rear facing.
> I wish the laws in this country would be changed to force parents to ERF but more so to force car seat manufacturers into selling affordable ERF seats because the ERF seats imported by UK parents are made by the same companies as one's available here. It makes no sense at all. *As for unhappy babies being RF, how, if they go from their RF infant seat to RF stage 2 seat do they know any different? The comment about prefering a happy baby forward facing is maddness. I would rather have a moaning child RF but 5x safer than a happy child FF with reduced safety.*I think it's crazy that people are getting angry at this thread.
> Here is some info on ERF and it's benefits:
> 
> https://www.carseat.se/the-swedish-rear-facing-car-seat-approach/
> 
> Some info about side collisions in RF:
> 
> https://www.carseat.se/rear-facing-and-side-impact-collisions/
> 
> Some practical info about how to keep LO RF with small cars and objectional RF travellers:
> 
> https://www.carseat.se/rear-facing-and-side-impact-collisions/
> 
> I hope someone who has yet to make the choice on stage 2 seats finds this useful because until the laws change it's down to us to inform each other about these things.

I agree with much of what you have said Blaumba but I will address the bit in bold. Aisling went from rear facing in her infant carrier to rear facing in our First Class Britax seat and she was happy with it for a bit. But once she moved on developmentally, she was not at all happy not being able to see us and interact more. I'm not talking about moaning, I'm talking about hysterical crying for the most part and I made the decision that her being hysterical during car journeys was not good for her well being. If she was just moaning, I probably would have left her ERF but hysteria was too much for me. I believe, especially at Aisling's age, that that sort of prolonged crying can have a mental impact on a child so we weighed it all up and made our decision :thumbup:


----------



## Blah11

Amelie loves sitting in her car seat. She usuallu just sleeps but we drove edin to blackpool and back and she was an angel in it :) kids naturally bend their legs so although they might look uncomfortable, they arent.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Vici said:


> Becuase by the nature of humans, when someone would like to do something that they are unable to do, it gets them on the defensive! Perfectly normal IMO. I'd love to ERF and all that happens when these posts are made is another little dig (although I understand not intentionally) about those who can't. Yes, people could steer clear of them but they don't. I never slated the OP once, just suggested that the thread may have been best in and along side the ERF thread which I stand by!
> 
> Can any ERF tell me how i can ERF in my car? Its an MG ZR 3 door hatch!

I totally understand that, but I guess you could try not to take it as such, as it is not a personal dig to those who cannot ERF. I guess people being over defensive might put others off who *could* ERF and it risks creating a bit of a 'them and us' mentality when really, most of us are singing from the exact same hymn sheet.


----------



## Lu28

xbabybumpx said:


> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> Why is it that when people feel uncomfortable about seeing something these days that they automatically say it's scaremongering? That video makes very uncomfortable watching for me because Aisling is forward facing. She gets very upset in the car when she's rear facing and after alot of thought and debate and going back and forth on it, we decided to let her forward face. So yes, watching that video makes me uncomfortable - but it's the reality of forward facing and I think everyone should be aware of the risks if that's what they decide to do.
> 
> Maybe you can't fit a ERF seat in your car, maybe like my LO they can't or won't cope with rear facing but alot of parents make a conscious decision to do everything they can to ERF, including buying a new car and fair play to them. If, like me, you've decided that FF is the best or right decision for you, then own that decision and don't accuse others of scaremongering simply because they're trying to raise awareness.
> 
> This is an area where people technically know that ERF is best but they don't really know why - I know none of my family and friends knows the reasons and I had to sit down and explain it to my sister the other day because she wanted to move her daughter into FF a bit early. She's now a convert and is going to ERF as long as possible.
> 
> It would be nice if BnB could be used for informative subjects, even those which make people uncomfortable, without the OP getting jumped on :wacko:
> 
> Did your lo always hate rf? I mean when she was in the baby carseat? charlotte is fine in her carseat and doesint cry but when/if i get an ERFcarseat im worried she wont like that fact she cant see us xoxClick to expand...
> 
> We got a Britax First Class seat so that it faces both ways so we'd have more choice. She was more than happy in her infant carrier and was happy rearfacing initially but once she got to about a year old, she didn't like that she couldn't see us I think and ended up very upset every time we were in the car. I'm still not sure we made the right decision to start FF instead but it was getting to the point where I didn't want to use the car at all!Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you made the right decision for you. I would think you would be more at risk of having a crash having a crying/screaming child in the car:flower:Click to expand...

That was one of the big factors in the decision!


----------



## Blah11

oh and we have a Britax hiway if anyone is interested. Fits fine in our fiesta.


----------



## redpoppy

Just wanted to add that OH was very concerned about legroom but she has quite a lot of it at the moment. She is around the 75th percentile for height and has long legs. They will obviously start to touch the back at some point but when you see photos of kids in rear facing they seem okay. As in not squished. And although my LO hates being in the carseat she always has so i have no idea how ff would be. :flower:


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Ruby moans in the car quite a lot but I have no idea whether it is due to the direction of travel and don't intend to find out! But she doesn't cry hysterically and we do have the option of giving her her dummy which helps.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

And we have a Peugeot 206 and a Britax Multitech, fits fine


----------



## Lu28

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Ruby moans in the car quite a lot but I have no idea whether it is due to the direction of travel and don't intend to find out! But she doesn't cry hysterically and we do have the option of giving her her dummy which helps.

The only way we found out was when we were in Ireland for a weekend and borrowed my aunt's seat which was FF - figured it'd be fine for the weekend and she was happy as larry. Putting her back in her ERF one in the UK caused havoc and this is when the hysteria started, almost like she had found out there was nother option so she wanted it! :dohh: So totally agree with you about not intending to find out! She was only moaning before she had a taste of FF :wacko:


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Ruby has the odd 3 minute local car journey in the childminders car FF, which I am not happy about at all - but we looked into the alternatives and found none to be viable. Apparently Ruby sings the whole time in the FF seat :dohh:


----------



## NuKe

I have poppy FF and tbh I don't feel guilty or worried. ERF does not fit on our car and considering we only bought it a month ago, buying another one is NOT an option. These threads ARE getting boring, its like ear piercing vs non-ear piercing, bf vs ff... you cannot start a thread like this and expect it not to start an argument!


----------



## SKATERBUN

Sorry OT but what happens when you go abroad, i/e fly somewhere, do you get a hire car with RF carseat, or insists the taxi has one? x


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

But there really shouldn't be argument - there is no opinion or debate involved - just some people object to important facts being repeated which is madness IMO


----------



## redpoppy

My LO screams and stiffen her legs and wails when i put her in the car seat. But she usually calms down within a minute after being strapped in. She used to cry all the way through when she was younger which was awful. I don't use the car too often but more than i used to. Hoping she gets better but looking likely the tantrums will increase!


----------



## SKATERBUN

redpoppy said:


> My LO screams and stiffen her legs and wails when i put her in the car seat. But she usually calms down within a minute after being strapped in. She used to cry all the way through when she was younger which was awful. I don't use the car too often but more than i used to. Hoping she gets better but looking likely the tantrums will increase!

same here redpoppy, its almost like she doesnt like her arms and legs being bent, she has very long legs and likes to strectch them out :)


----------



## Blaumba

NuKe said:


> I have poppy FF and tbh I don't feel guilty or worried. ERF does not fit on our car and considering we only bought it a month ago, buying another one is NOT an option. These threads ARE getting boring, its like ear piercing vs non-ear piercing, bf vs ff... you cannot start a thread like this and expect it not to start an argument!

It's hardly the same as the ear peircing debate IMO..!?
I would say calling this subject boring is a little unconstructive too..
It's info that people should be made aware of.
If it turns even 1 mum yet to make the choice into an ERF convert then it's a good thing.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

SKATERBUN said:


> Sorry OT but what happens when you go abroad, i/e fly somewhere, do you get a hire car with RF carseat, or insists the taxi has one? x

You just have to look into all the options and choose the safest one in a situation like this. Some parents may choose to avoid situations where ERF is not possible, where as others choose the next best option even if it is sub optimal.


----------



## SKATERBUN

ok I just read this if anyones interested https://kidsincars.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html


----------



## Blaumba

An interesting thought...

How much did your pram/travel system cost??

My imported carseat was on the pricey side, 350 Euros but my travel system was close to £800 (OH's choice!). When you think of it like that it puts it into perspective.


----------



## Missy89

Thank-you for posting this, Im due in April and have never considered a car seat being rf or ff I would have just followed the guidlines. But the video was good, it wasnt scary and really upsetting as the little boy is making a recovery and it contained useful information. I don't see what the arguments are for its not like you've posted saying anyone who has choosen not to or unable to use rf is a bad parent your just informing people of the dangers of one. Personally I'll do some more research on the subject and if I find that the facts are true I would do anything including swapping cars to make it possible to use rf, however I agree with the ladies who say its impossible to drive with a hysterical child- I've had to pull over whilst driving with my nephew so I think you've done the right thing- its not always about facts sometimes it comes down to individual situations. Don't see the need to jump on OP though, it is very clear what the thread is about so just don't look.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

My travel system cost the same as the 2 x ERF seats we bought (one for our car and one or my mums)


----------



## redpoppy

Blaumba said:


> An interesting thought...
> 
> How much did your pram/travel system cost??
> 
> My imported carseat was on the pricey side, 350 Euros but my travel system was close to £800 (OH's choice!). When you think of it like that it puts it into perspective.

Totally off topic but i hate the 600 we spent on our travel system. Only used the pram/pushchair a dozen times. Ho hum.:dohh:


----------



## xbabybumpx

tbh i think it's a bit risky buying an erf carseat from a website incase it doesint fit the car. can you not buy them in mothercare/halfords?


----------



## SKATERBUN

Blaumba said:


> An interesting thought...
> 
> How much did your pram/travel system cost??
> 
> My imported carseat was on the pricey side, 350 Euros but my travel system was close to £800 (OH's choice!). When you think of it like that it puts it into perspective.

my travel system was £400, and the pushchair part will be used up till the age of 4


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

xbabybumpx said:


> tbh i think it's a bit risky buying an erf carseat from a website incase it doesint fit the car. can you not buy them in mothercare/halfords?

No, you can't, which is very poor IMO but that's not the point. I agree with you, it does seem risky ordering one online but people seem not to have a problem doing this. We had an independent shop half an hour away and got ours there but we would have travelled far longer if necessary.


----------



## redpoppy

carseat.se will take a photo of the carseat in the car you want i think.... Someone else can clarify perhaps....:shrug:


----------



## Blaumba

xbabybumpx said:


> tbh i think it's a bit risky buying an erf carseat from a website incase it doesint fit the car. can you not buy them in mothercare/halfords?

www.carseat.se

An AMAZING website with lots and lots of info about which seats fit UK cars and a very helpfull man at the end of an email who answers all questions etc quickly and honestly. :flower:


----------



## xbabybumpx

Mum2b_Claire said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> tbh i think it's a bit risky buying an erf carseat from a website incase it doesint fit the car. can you not buy them in mothercare/halfords?
> 
> No, you can't, which is very poor IMO but that's not the point. I agree with you, it does seem risky ordering one online but people seem not to have a problem doing this. We had an independent shop half an hour away and got ours there but we would have travelled far longer if necessary.Click to expand...

It does seem a bit backwards to be honest. I wonder why they dont sell them in normal shops:shrug:


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

I am not even going to watch it. 
As soon as my first was 9mths he was forward facing and so will my daughter be. 
Accidents happen all the time, a car is a dangerous place to be - inside as a passenger or outside as a pedestrian. 
You just got to keep your fingers crossed it never ever happens to you.
I am not one to go through life being overly paranoid about everything and I do not wrap my children up in cotton wool. 
I came home from hospital lying in a carrycot on the back seat of my dads X reg brand new Sierra - I am 28yrs. 
My brother who was 25 came home in mums arms!!


----------



## xbabybumpx

how much is 305 euros converted into pounds?


----------



## NuKe

xbabybumpx said:


> how much is 305 euros converted into pounds?

roughly the same


----------



## Eala

> It does seem a bit backwards to be honest. I wonder why they dont sell them in normal shops

Because the law doesn't require ERF, or even RF up to one year (which is the case in other countries like the USA). The law doesn't require it, therefore there is very little awareness of ERF. With little awareness, the High Street shops probably don't see the point in trying to stock those kinds of seats. It does seem that ERF seats are more expensive, presumably they have to be made to a different standard because of where the impact stresses are? (Don't really know, just hazarding a guess there). So more expensive seats, which the majority of patients won't see the point in buying, because the law doesn't say they have to buy them, and the "standard" in this country is to turn babies FF. Doesn't lead to many sales for the shop, so they wouldn't see the point in stocking the seats.

The thing which irritates me is that I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to get them stocked here, as it's the same manufacturers who make the seats! Britax, Maxi-Cosi, Graco... they all do very good ERF seats, so it's not like the shops would have to start doing deals with entirely new companies :dohh:


----------



## xbabybumpx

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> I am not even going to watch it.
> As soon as my first was 9mths he was forward facing and so will my daughter be.
> Accidents happen all the time, a car is a dangerous place to be - inside as a passenger or outside as a pedestrian.
> You just got to keep your fingers crossed it never ever happens to you.
> I am not one to go through life being overly paranoid about everything and I do not wrap my children up in cotton wool.
> I came home from hospital lying in a carrycot on the back seat of my dads X reg brand new Sierra - I am 28yrs.
> My brother who was 25 came home in mums arms!!

ok thanks,i will just put my lo in a carrycot on the backseat. It will save me money.Thanks!:dohh:


----------



## Blah11

If you email carseat.se they'll tell you the seat for your car. They're very good. I originally wanted a more expensive seat but was advised to get a smaller/cheaper one as i wouldnt have much room in the front with the bigger one. I defo reccommend!


----------



## Blaumba

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> I am not even going to watch it.
> As soon as my first was 9mths he was forward facing and so will my daughter be.
> Accidents happen all the time, a car is a dangerous place to be - inside as a passenger or outside as a pedestrian.
> You just got to keep your fingers crossed it never ever happens to you.
> I am not one to go through life being overly paranoid about everything and I do not wrap my children up in cotton wool.
> *I came home from hospital lying in a carrycot on the back seat of my dads X reg brand new Sierra - I am 28yrs.
> My brother who was 25 came home in mums arms!!*

Pleased you both made it home in 1 piece!
I also travelled on my mums lap in the van we had when I was a baby. Thankfully we never crashed!

I don't think ERF constitutes "wrapping in cotton wool"


----------



## xbabybumpx

NuKe said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> how much is 305 euros converted into pounds?
> 
> roughly the sameClick to expand...

ha ha. I really need to travel more:haha:


----------



## Eala

xbabybumpx said:


> how much is 305 euros converted into pounds?

It's £256.15

www.xe.com

:)


----------



## xbabybumpx

Thanks ladies. it looks like charlottes christmas money is going on an ERF carseat rather then clothes lol xox


----------



## 08marchbean

NuKe said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> how much is 305 euros converted into pounds?
> 
> roughly the sameClick to expand...

:shock: chuffing hell. i wish i could afford that but we cant. and does that not include the shipping either?


----------



## Eala

Blaumba said:


> I don't think ERF constitutes "wrapping in cotton wool"

Absolutely agree with this.

We all make our own risk assessments for every part of our lives. I'd never tell someone whose child rides FF that they are doing something wrong :shrug: I just made the decision that for _my child_ ERF was the way I wanted to go.

So the flip side of that is that it's not really necessary to try and insult parents who decide to use ERF seats by claiming that we are being overly cautious or somehow restricting our children's chance to learn in this world (which is what the phrase "wrapped in cotton wool" means to me).


----------



## SKATERBUN

^ I think the roads today are a lot more dangerous than they were 28 years ago, you only have to see all the flowers attached to trees where there have been crashes, never saw this when I was younger.


----------



## Blah11

Yes, IDK why people justify their own actions by putting others down about theirs?


----------



## Blaumba

Eala said:


> It does seem a bit backwards to be honest. I wonder why they dont sell them in normal shops
> 
> Because the law doesn't require ERF, or even RF up to one year (which is the case in other countries like the USA). The law doesn't require it, therefore there is very little awareness of ERF. With little awareness, the High Street shops probably don't see the point in trying to stock those kinds of seats. It does seem that ERF seats are more expensive, presumably they have to be made to a different standard because of where the impact stresses are? (Don't really know, just hazarding a guess there). So more expensive seats, which the majority of patients won't see the point in buying, because the law doesn't say they have to buy them, and the "standard" in this country is to turn babies FF. Doesn't lead to many sales for the shop, so they wouldn't see the point in stocking the seats.
> 
> The thing which irritates me is that I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to get them stocked here, as it's the same manufacturers who make the seats! Britax, Maxi-Cosi, Graco... they all do very good ERF seats, so it's not like the shops would have to start doing deals with entirely new companies :dohh:Click to expand...


I know, it's crazy!
The laws need to be changed or failing that the word on ERF needs to be spread so that more and more parents do go to the overseas retailers and the likes of Mothercare and Halfords realise they are losing bussines and start selling them here.


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

xbabybumpx said:


> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> I am not even going to watch it.
> As soon as my first was 9mths he was forward facing and so will my daughter be.
> Accidents happen all the time, a car is a dangerous place to be - inside as a passenger or outside as a pedestrian.
> You just got to keep your fingers crossed it never ever happens to you.
> I am not one to go through life being overly paranoid about everything and I do not wrap my children up in cotton wool.
> I came home from hospital lying in a carrycot on the back seat of my dads X reg brand new Sierra - I am 28yrs.
> My brother who was 25 came home in mums arms!!
> 
> ok thanks,i will just put my lo in a carrycot on the backseat. It will save me money.Thanks!:dohh:Click to expand...

Is that what I am saying? 
No....I am purely stating that not so long ago these things weren't required by law and accidents still happened then as they do now but the whole nanny state has gone barking and makes parents feel bad / inferior if they dont buy the latest overpriced gadget which 'could' help if something bad happens.
All manufacturers have a habit of almost putting the fear of god into parents because they know that they will find every last penny thinking what they are doing is going to protect them forever. 
BTW - you can get a carrycot from M&P : 
https://www.mamasandpapas.com/range/autocruise/5891/?cm_re=CarSeats-_-Pod1-_-Autocruise
I have no idea about what cars it fits etc but if it was available 6mths ago I probably would own one now as the car seat plays havoc with my LO's reflux.


----------



## RJsMum

I think a lot of people who feel these threads are "overdone" are missing the point, one that Wobbles made in fact, that new members are joining all the time and may not otherwise catch a previous thread that is 7+ pages back as it takes a "bump" or reply to get the thread moved to the front of the queue again, instead of having threads "stickied" for example, which leaves them on the front page.

It was actually BECAUSE of a thread like this that the ERF issue was brought to my attention when DS was a newborn. I showed a similar video to my DH and HE was the one that was adamant that we keep DS RF as long as possible.

Also, if those of you who are "so tired/bored/over" threads like these...then just bypass them! I see threads all the time that don't pertain to me...'how much formula is your 2 week old taking' (I BF and my DS is 11 mos, so I skip it)...'when will my LO sleep through?' (I've accepted he's a baby and sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, so I bypass it). My point is, why come on and whinge that the video is upsetting to you when A) It had a clear warning that it might be, B) Some of you haven't even WATCHED the video to see that it was done tastefully and in no way to SCARE people, just to raise awareness, and C) You know your car can't handle RF because they don't fit (the way I see that is, at least your child is in a carseat and you're making them as safe as you can with the resources you have -- I think that equals a pretty good parent still).

Would these same people still say it was 'scaremongering' if it was a video about pool safety (for anyone who has one) and showing that a gate around your pool is much safer than not having one, or the safety of having a fire-guard around your fire? It's not at all saying that those who do FF are being negligent, only that RF is a safer option (provided your car can accommodate, obviously).

For one, I think this is a wake up call that the UK, for example IS behind on car seat safety. Personally, it motivates me enough that I am considering trying something proactive about the situation and writing a letter to my MP to see why legislation DOESN'T see it as an issue to even make the car seat regulations LAWS, as they're only recommendations here to be 9 mos and 20 lbs, and like another poster said, to force manufacturers to lower prices so they are more affordable or develop schemes for those who may not otherwise be able to afford them, or even encourage them to make more seats that will fit other makes/models of cars that don't have the capacity for RF now. I still know people putting their children FF much sooner just because the child has reached the weight limit...something I think that should be considered when you're buying a seat to begin with (a time in fact that a video such as this may come in very handy and save people loads of money).

Why don't we see this thread in THAT kind of light, rather than coming on here with such negativity...it's a SAFETY issue people...not someone judging whether you're weaning too early, FF over BF, or spanking your child.

If you're not able to do ERF because of your car...it's not your fault.
If you've made the decision that FF works for you and you're within the guidelines...fair enough. I don't need your explanation of why you decided what you did...you make the decisions for your child, not me. You don't have to justify it...you're not doing anything wrong.

But if I had just started a BnB account today and didn't know about this issue beforehand...I would like to simply THANK the OP for being CONSIDERATE enough to bring this issue to my attention, and THANK the other users who offered additional information so that I might share this information with others who might not otherwise know and who I feel may benefit.


----------



## Eala

08marchbean said:


> NuKe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> how much is 305 euros converted into pounds?
> 
> roughly the sameClick to expand...
> 
> :shock: chuffing hell. i wish i could afford that but we cant. and does that not include the shipping either?Click to expand...

It's not quite roughly the same, it's £256 :)

Just from looking at carseat.se, I'm guessing that the poster may have been looking at the Graco DuoLogic I (very good seat) which is 275 Euros, then adding on the 30 Euros delivery charge.

I'm sure someone on the ERF thread in the Natural Parenting section mentioned that they had found one available for around £200. But they don't seem to come in much cheaper than that. You can get the Britax First Class Plus which RFs up to 13kg (I think it's 13kg) for about £100 though.


----------



## Blah11

Also, there ARE a few retailers who now stock ERF seats in the UK :) Its just been recent (the last 6 months or so) and there's only 4 shops around but it's a step in the right direction.


----------



## xbabybumpx

Jesus,these carseats are at least £200. My dh is going to have a heart attack lol xox


----------



## Blah11

yes but they'll last them til they're 4! £50 a year isn't too bad.


----------



## melorablack

How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.


----------



## RJsMum

xbabybumpx said:


> Thanks ladies. it looks like charlottes christmas money is going on an ERF carseat rather then clothes lol xox

This is EXACTLY what we're doing! :thumbup:


----------



## SKATERBUN

its like a fully grown adult wouldnt dream of going out in a car without a seatbelt, but this was the case 30 years ago! Its progression in safety, not a nanny state ;) :)


----------



## xemmax

can i just say, i moved to baby club 12 weeks ago and this is the only the second time that i have seen a thread about this (there may have been more, but none that i can recall), and the first was just asking for recommendations as i recall.

so for me, the information is new and invaluable, and i want to say thank you for sharing it as it's information which i want to know. if you're already aware of the information then don't bother looking.

Saying it makes you upset etc as you can't use a RF carseat, well, that's unfortunate but it doesn't mean threads like this should be censored.

it upsets me to read about kittens dying but it doesn't mean no one should ever mention it for fear of upsetting me.. i know it still happens!


----------



## SKATERBUN

Blah11 said:


> Also, there ARE a few retailers who now stock ERF seats in the UK :) Its just been recent (the last 6 months or so) and there's only 4 shops around but it's a step in the right direction.


yes i saw kiddicare do them :)


----------



## xbabybumpx

I like the Nania Cosmo SP Combination Car Seat as charlottes infant carrier is a nania and its fantastic. Its 'only' £62 but it's only RF until 15 months xox


----------



## Blah11

No, I don't understand the 'nanny state' thing either. Its not even the law, it's a personal decision :shrug:


----------



## xbabybumpx

xemmax said:


> can i just say, i moved to baby club 12 weeks ago and this is the only the second time that i have seen a thread about this (there may have been more, but none that i can recall), and the first was just asking for recommendations as i recall.
> 
> so for me, the information is new and invaluable, and i want to say thank you for sharing it as it's information which i want to know. if you're already aware of the information then don't bother looking.
> 
> Saying it makes you upset etc as you can't use a RF carseat, well, that's unfortunate but it doesn't mean threads like this should be censored.
> 
> it upsets me to read about kittens dying but it doesn't mean no one should ever mention it for fear of upsetting me.. i know it still happens!

I only found out about ERF from babyclub. I just think that the way this was posted wasint done in the right context. There should of been more info and links instead of just a video,which i havint watched so dont know if it was helpful xox


----------



## RJsMum

There is another seat out there, sorry I can't think of the brand (may be Britax) that fits up to 6 years old and (maybe) 25kg. £250 is the damage...but consider that if you're having to get a transition seat after the age of 4 anyway.

If I would have known about this before the baby, I may have saved up specifically for this type of seat.


----------



## jemstar

I have just spent the last 20 minutes reading this thread and I can't believe it to be honest! It is not scaremongering in the least, it's raising awareness. I personally had no knowledge of ERF until I started reading forums like these. It is only threads such as this, which make people realise there is a safer alternative to FF. 

I now have the Duologic from carseat.se and its fab. The ones which are stocked over here didn't fit in our car so we emailed these guys and they were very helpful and suggested this car seat to fit in small cars. It actually takes up the same amount of space as the maxi cosi and it's base.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and FF of course is safe, it's just ERF is safer. If you ERF it doesn't mean you are better parents blah blah blah, and likewise if you FF, this is not trying to make you feel guilty. If you have made the decision, don't read threads like this or watch the videos!


----------



## bambino156

I've only ever seen one other thread about ERF, maybe I just haven't noticed the others, and tbh i've found it quite interesting. It wasn't until I read the previous thread that I even knew ERF carseats existed. ERF is definately something my oh and I will be considering, i've been looking at the next stage FF carseats and the one I quite like is about £150, so its not such a great leap in price to buy a ERF one. As a previous poster mentioned, I think its terrible that ERF carseats aren't available on the high street, why not give people the option? I'm sure that if more people were educated on the benefits of ERF then they might choose this option.


----------



## xbabybumpx

ok ive just watched the video so i take back about orignally saying this thread was scaremongering. I thought the child was younger,but he was 18 months?? poor boy xox


----------



## RJsMum

melorablack said:


> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.

Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.

::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:


----------



## bambino156

Does anybody know whether an ERF carseat can go in the front of a car? Or is it a no no like the infant RF carseat because of the airbags?


----------



## RJsMum

bambino156 said:


> Does anybody know whether an ERF carseat can go in the front of a car? Or is it a no no like the infant RF carseat because of the airbags?

Correct me, someone, if I'm wrong...but I do believe that the airbags are what make carseats in the front a "no no." But I do think there is a way to disable them, maybe? Although not sure that would be a safe alternative just to have the carseat in the front.


----------



## Blaumba

bambino156 said:


> Does anybody know whether an ERF carseat can go in the front of a car? Or is it a no no like the infant RF carseat because of the airbags?

All RF carseats can go in the front, as long as the airbag is deactivated.
:thumbup:


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> I am not even going to watch it.
> As soon as my first was 9mths he was forward facing and so will my daughter be.
> Accidents happen all the time, a car is a dangerous place to be - inside as a passenger or outside as a pedestrian.
> You just got to keep your fingers crossed it never ever happens to you.
> I am not one to go through life being overly paranoid about everything and I do not wrap my children up in cotton wool.
> I came home from hospital lying in a carrycot on the back seat of my dads X reg brand new Sierra - I am 28yrs.
> My brother who was 25 came home in mums arms!!

Nice attitude to have :dohh: Out with the seatbelts too! Who needs those... if it's your time to die, you will die

On a serious note though, just because accidents happen all the time doesn't mean we should stop taking precautions. I personally feel so much better knowing that IN THE EVENT that my car was in an accident, my babies are safest in their carseats.


----------



## hypnorm

How can highlighting child saftey be classes as scaremongering!
People who say they are bored of these threads - are you bored with ways that may help your childs saftey in the long term?
If you don't like the thread then move on rather than leaving petty comments, if it helps people decide whats best for them, then it will have been of use.

Both my kids are forward facing, aged 5 and almost 2, that is our choice, and it suits us, but i don't look on any one else differently for what they decide to do.

I bet the people to complain about scaremongering would be the first to moan about the lack of information if anything god forbid did happen.

Also who aver compared this to FF v BF and piercing threads, how can car saftey be compared to ear piercing!


----------



## xemmax

Vici said:


> Becuase by the nature of humans, when someone would like to do something that they are unable to do, it gets them on the defensive! Perfectly normal IMO. *I'd love to ERF and all that happens when these posts are made is another little dig (although I understand not intentionally) about those who can't. *Yes, people could steer clear of them but they don't. I never slated the OP once, just suggested that the thread may have been best in and along side the ERF thread which I stand by!
> 
> Can any ERF tell me how i can ERF in my car? Its an MG ZR 3 door hatch!

this is always the problem... it's so difficult to talk about what you do because people who are unable to do it/choose not to see it as a dig when really, it's just information sharing. usually the root cause of unintentional BF vs FF debates on here too, amongst other topics.

people are so ready to get offended these days, it makes it near impossible to discuss some things without being accused of insensitivity.


----------



## xbabybumpx

The websites ive looked on says you cant buy the Britax Multi Tech online unless you've had a demonstration of the carseat or buy it from a showroom:shrug:


----------



## Seraphim

RJsMum said:


> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...

I think this is what securatot did :thumbup:
(https://www.securatot.co.uk/)

*It was a thread like this that informed me about ERF and I am thankful.*

RTAs are a sensitive subject for me. I can't bear to watch these videos, but I don't need to to know ERF is safer _to the extent which_ it justifies the extra cost in my eyes. Especially seeing as these seats are currently imported in low volume.

Thank you for the point about the cost of travel systems, it's valid and might just get some people thinking.

I had a 'good friend' unleash her guilt on me when she saw we'd chosen RF. Some people don't possess the insight to look at their monthly (let alone annual!) alcohol bill (for example) and ask might they rather invest some in a safer journey.

Lu28 you're full of grace, as always :flow: You're right, people need to own their own decisions rather than hitting out from their own discomfort.

The people who exclusively sell RF seats are so moved by the lack of knowledge and awareness they are extremely helpful and you get a better service than any mothercare or halfords could give you.

Like the OP, they really just want to spread the word. The discovery is often so shocking people are compelled to let others know the things they didn't.


----------



## Tegans Mama

We have a shop less than 5 miles from us that sells RF car seats. We don't RF - I drive a '94 plate micra, and we really would NOT fit one in - but number 2 will be ERF in our new car that we're getting next year.


----------



## CocoaOne

I think part of the problem is the lack of stock of ERF in the UK

It's all very well saying 'order online', but quite often the information on the seat says it fits the car - when it doesn't. I've tried numerous seats (FF & ERF) in my car, all have said in the instructions that they fit, but they actually have 'buckle crunch' when they are fitted. Whilst this means that the seat fits in- there is a weak point which would possibly cause an issue in a crash. Buckle crunch is where the seat belt buckle clip comes up the side of the seat and bends slightly in order for the buckle (attached to the seatbelt) to click into place or just rests on the side of the seat. 

It depends on how good your fitter is (Mothercare, Halfords etc) as to whether they A) know about it/notice it or B) tell you about it.


----------



## leelee

RJsMum said:


> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...

Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?

I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.


----------



## bambino156

Blaumba said:


> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> Does anybody know whether an ERF carseat can go in the front of a car? Or is it a no no like the infant RF carseat because of the airbags?
> 
> All RF carseats can go in the front, as long as the airbag is deactivated.
> :thumbup:Click to expand...

Thought this was the case. Thanks x


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

I_AM_LIVID said:


> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> I am not even going to watch it.
> As soon as my first was 9mths he was forward facing and so will my daughter be.
> Accidents happen all the time, a car is a dangerous place to be - inside as a passenger or outside as a pedestrian.
> You just got to keep your fingers crossed it never ever happens to you.
> I am not one to go through life being overly paranoid about everything and I do not wrap my children up in cotton wool.
> I came home from hospital lying in a carrycot on the back seat of my dads X reg brand new Sierra - I am 28yrs.
> My brother who was 25 came home in mums arms!!
> 
> Nice attitude to have :dohh: Out with the seatbelts too! Who needs those... if it's your time to die, you will die
> 
> *On a serious note though, just because accidents happen all the time doesn't mean we should stop taking precautions. I personally feel so much better knowing that IN THE EVENT that my car was in an accident, my babies are safest in their carseats*.Click to expand...

So are both of my children - they have safe car seats and never go in the front of my car even with the airbag deactivated there is *always* that chance in an impact it could trigger.
My car has a 5 star ncap rating and OH has a Navara so being up high is naturally safer full stop. 
I frequently see a mother in a Zafira at the school (without additional seats in the boot) with a baby, maybe 15mths in her seat in the back and her friend in the passenger seat at the front and then she collects 3 other kids from the school. 
So, that is 3 kids between the ages of 5-10yrs and a baby in the back of a 3 seater car?! 
She spent a fortune on car seats - all maxi cosi yet one kid is sat on the lap of another.... pay all that money for safety and then do that?
Of course car seats / booster seats are an absolute must and my son is will not be sitting in the front until he is 12 just like I wasn't as a kid but putting videos on here like that to play on mothers minds is a little OTT. 
We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be but this almost makes parents who a) can't afford these seats b) can't fit the seats in c) don't have the option to go and buy another feel inadequate and that they are putting thir child in some kind of danger when in fact they are not - they have a SAFE carseat - they wouldn't be able to sell it if it wasn't and who is to say what if...?


----------



## bambino156

leelee said:


> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...

If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

Blaumba said:


> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> Does anybody know whether an ERF carseat can go in the front of a car? Or is it a no no like the infant RF carseat because of the airbags?
> 
> All RF carseats can go in the front, as long as the airbag is deactivated.
> :thumbup:Click to expand...

True, but babies are still safest RF in the BACK SEAT, even with a deactivated airbag. For starters, drivers get destructed when baby is sitting next to them while driving (how can you completely ignore an adorable baby face?). And as we all very well know, you don't need any destruction when driving. Secondly, as mentioned by Ouchwithno.2 there is always that chance in an impact it could trigger.


----------



## leelee

bambino156 said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...

I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.

Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.


----------



## xemmax

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> I frequently see a mother in a Zafira at the school (without additional seats in the boot) with a baby, maybe 15mths in her seat in the back and her friend in the passenger seat at the front and then she collects 3 other kids from the school.
> So, that is 3 kids between the ages of 5-10yrs and a baby in the back of a 3 seater car?!
> She spent a fortune on car seats - all maxi cosi yet one kid is sat on the lap of another.... pay all that money for safety and then do that?

out of curiosity, have you reported the woman to the school/police? what she's doing is disgusting and illegal.


----------



## Seraphim

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be

I disagree.


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

xemmax said:



> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> I frequently see a mother in a Zafira at the school (without additional seats in the boot) with a baby, maybe 15mths in her seat in the back and her friend in the passenger seat at the front and then she collects 3 other kids from the school.
> So, that is 3 kids between the ages of 5-10yrs and a baby in the back of a 3 seater car?!
> She spent a fortune on car seats - all maxi cosi yet one kid is sat on the lap of another.... pay all that money for safety and then do that?
> 
> out of curiosity, have you reported the woman to the school/police? what she's doing is disgusting and illegal.Click to expand...

I have moaned to my OH but it isn't really my place - she isn't going to listen to me that if she has a crash she could wipe out everybody in the car because of her stupidity.
I see it all the time, cars with seats in but kids (older ie ; 4yrs) not even strapped in.
It is disgusting I totally agree :wacko:


----------



## xbabybumpx

CocoaOne said:


> I think part of the problem is the lack of stock of ERF in the UK
> 
> It's all very well saying 'order online', but quite often the information on the seat says it fits the car - when it doesn't. I've tried numerous seats (FF & ERF) in my car, all have said in the instructions that they fit, but they actually have 'buckle crunch' when they are fitted. Whilst this means that the seat fits in- there is a weak point which would possibly cause an issue in a crash. Buckle crunch is where the seat belt buckle clip comes up the side of the seat and bends slightly in order for the buckle (attached to the seatbelt) to click into place or just rests on the side of the seat.
> 
> It depends on how good your fitter is (Mothercare, Halfords etc) as to whether they A) know about it/notice it or B) tell you about it.

Dont know if this is possible or im talking out my backside(nothing new there) but im sure the seatbelts in my car,the back ones especially are shorter because its a bit of a tight squeeze securing the infant carrier in.Or maybe thats what there supposed to be like:shrug:


----------



## xbabybumpx

I_AM_LIVID said:


> Blaumba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> Does anybody know whether an ERF carseat can go in the front of a car? Or is it a no no like the infant RF carseat because of the airbags?
> 
> All RF carseats can go in the front, as long as the airbag is deactivated.
> :thumbup:Click to expand...
> 
> True, but babies are still safest RF in the BACK SEAT, even with a deactivated airbag. For starters, drivers get destructed when baby is sitting next to them while driving (how can you completely ignore an adorable baby face?). And as we all very well know, you don't need any destruction when driving. Secondly, as mentioned by Ouchno.2 there is always that chance in an impact it could trigger.Click to expand...

My neice sits in the back of the car in a ff carseat and was once put in the front seat. Never happened again as she was too much of a distraction,so i totallt agree with you xox


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

Seraphim said:


> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be
> 
> I disagree.Click to expand...

I have lost two friends in an RTA actually I was on the scene before the emergency services and the image has haunted me ever since so I do know.
She was a beautiful girl, sad, sad day. 
Everytime you go out in the car you risk your life - even with a 5 star rating or a range rover you still risk your life the second you turn that ignition.
I have also had the misfortune of being in 3 write offs (minor accidents but serious damage), rolled my own car at 19yrs and watched my brother being cut out of his car.


----------



## xbabybumpx

leelee said:


> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.
> 
> Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.Click to expand...

I had no idea that you got a grant for cloth nappies,thats crazy! no offence to you:flower:


----------



## xbabybumpx

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> Seraphim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be
> 
> I disagree.Click to expand...
> 
> I have lost two friends in an RTA actually I was on the scene before the emergency services and the image has haunted me ever since so I do know.
> She was a beautiful girl, sad, sad day.
> Everytime you go out in the car you risk your life - even with a 5 star rating or a range rover you still risk your life the second you turn that ignition.
> I have also had the misfortune of being in 3 write offs (minor accidents but serious damage), rolled my own car at 19yrs and watched my brother being cut out of his car.Click to expand...

Sorry to be ignorant but what does RTA mean? xox


----------



## Seraphim

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> Seraphim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be
> 
> I disagree.Click to expand...
> 
> I have lost two friends in an RTA actually I was on the scene before the emergency services and the image has haunted me ever since so I do know.
> She was a beautiful girl, sad, sad day.
> Everytime you go out in the car you risk your life - even with a 5 star rating or a range rover you still risk your life the second you turn that ignition.
> I have also had the misfortune of being in 3 write offs (minor accidents but serious damage), rolled my own car at 19yrs and watched my brother being cut out of his car.Click to expand...

Yes you might. What you said is that everybody knows.

People come here to ask the simplest of questions 'Am I doing xyz right..?' - when it comes to car safety most people accept the widely available information they're given and expect that if it was as much safer AS IT IS to RF, then it would also be law here.


----------



## Eala

I_AM_LIVID said:


> True, but babies are still safest RF in the BACK SEAT, even with a deactivated airbag. For starters, drivers get destructed when baby is sitting next to them while driving (how can you completely ignore an adorable baby face?). And as we all very well know, you don't need any destruction when driving.

Not actually true. As long as the airbag is disabled, the front seat is just as safe as any other seat in the car.

https://www.carseat.se/rearfacing/position-in-vehicle/front-seat-safety/

If anyone is really interested in ERF, and thinks that they may have a problem getting a seat to fit their car, that's when I'd recommend carseat.se. Hakan knows so much about all their seats, and could probably even send you a picture of the seats installed in either your car, or a similar model. Also, www.securatot.co.uk (a UK company) sell the Britax Multi-Tech, which is quite a compact seat.

I know that the ones available in the few walk-in retailers in the UK can be hard to fit (like the Recaro Polaric, Isofix only and frickin' huge) but there are definitely options out there, for cars of all sizes.

There have been some great replies on here (Lu28, Seraphim, RJsMum spring to mind), and I agree that we need to raise awareness in order to help make ERF less costly and more available :)


----------



## leelee

xbabybumpx said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.
> 
> Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.Click to expand...
> 
> I had no idea that you got a grant for cloth nappies,thats crazy! no offence to you:flower:Click to expand...

Lol - none taken! I agree with you :)


----------



## xemmax

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> I frequently see a mother in a Zafira at the school (without additional seats in the boot) with a baby, maybe 15mths in her seat in the back and her friend in the passenger seat at the front and then she collects 3 other kids from the school.
> So, that is 3 kids between the ages of 5-10yrs and a baby in the back of a 3 seater car?!
> She spent a fortune on car seats - all maxi cosi yet one kid is sat on the lap of another.... pay all that money for safety and then do that?
> 
> out of curiosity, have you reported the woman to the school/police? what she's doing is disgusting and illegal.Click to expand...
> 
> I have moaned to my OH but it isn't really my place - she isn't going to listen to me that if she has a crash she could wipe out everybody in the car because of her stupidity.
> I see it all the time, cars with seats in but kids (older ie ; 4yrs) not even strapped in.
> It is disgusting I totally agree :wacko:Click to expand...

awful. it's not your responsibility, and you shouldn't speak to her, but please report her to the school or police.. it needs to be stopped! if people want to risk their own lives then fine, but poor children, no no no.. :nope:


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

xbabybumpx said:


> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seraphim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be
> 
> I disagree.Click to expand...
> 
> I have lost two friends in an RTA actually I was on the scene before the emergency services and the image has haunted me ever since so I do know.
> She was a beautiful girl, sad, sad day.
> Everytime you go out in the car you risk your life - even with a 5 star rating or a range rover you still risk your life the second you turn that ignition.
> I have also had the misfortune of being in 3 write offs (minor accidents but serious damage), rolled my own car at 19yrs and watched my brother being cut out of his car.Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry to be ignorant but what does RTA mean? xoxClick to expand...

Road Traffic Accident x


----------



## xbabybumpx

ouchwithNo.2 said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seraphim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouchwithNo.2 said:
> 
> 
> We all know the dangers of cars and how horrific a RTA can be
> 
> I disagree.Click to expand...
> 
> I have lost two friends in an RTA actually I was on the scene before the emergency services and the image has haunted me ever since so I do know.
> She was a beautiful girl, sad, sad day.
> Everytime you go out in the car you risk your life - even with a 5 star rating or a range rover you still risk your life the second you turn that ignition.
> I have also had the misfortune of being in 3 write offs (minor accidents but serious damage), rolled my own car at 19yrs and watched my brother being cut out of his car.Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry to be ignorant but what does RTA mean? xoxClick to expand...
> 
> Road Traffic Accident xClick to expand...

Thanks. im such a walking baby brain :haha:xox


----------



## melorablack

xbabybumpx said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.
> 
> Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.Click to expand...
> 
> I had no idea that you got a grant for cloth nappies,thats crazy! no offence to you:flower:Click to expand...

There's nothing "environmentally friendly" about an erf seat vs a normal rw/ff seat so I doubt they'll ever give grants for that tbh.


----------



## Blaumba

Don't want this very informative thread to turn into a debate within a debate so didn't link this along with the others earlier but in response to the front seat questions:

https://www.carseat.se/are-car-seats-in-front-seat-safe/


----------



## Eala

There is also the link I posted above:

https://www.carseat.se/rearfacing/position-in-vehicle/front-seat-safety/

:) Same website, fantastice info :thumbup:


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

Eala said:


> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> True, but babies are still safest RF in the BACK SEAT, even with a deactivated airbag. For starters, drivers get destructed when baby is sitting next to them while driving (how can you completely ignore an adorable baby face?). And as we all very well know, you don't need any destruction when driving.
> 
> Not actually true. As long as the airbag is disabled, the front seat is just as safe as any other seat in the car.
> 
> https://www.carseat.se/rearfacing/position-in-vehicle/front-seat-safety/Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. So much wish traffic rules weren't so different for different countries. The instruction on my Jane carseats clearly state that a baby is safest RF in the backseat and now I'm reading a different story. Just wish it wasn't so confusing, iykwim? In Portugal babies/toddler/kids are prohibited from sitting in the fronseat until age 12, car seats or not. Anyway, I have twins and it's most natural for me to keep them in the backseats anyway, so will continue with that.


----------



## xbabybumpx

melorablack said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.
> 
> Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.Click to expand...
> 
> I had no idea that you got a grant for cloth nappies,thats crazy! no offence to you:flower:Click to expand...
> 
> There's nothing "environmentally friendly" about an erf seat vs a normal rw/ff seat so I doubt they'll ever give grants for that tbh.Click to expand...

Surely a childs life is more important then being "enviromentally freindly". Maybe with the healthy start grant and the grant for cloth nappies they could give the grants for the ERF carseat instead.I mean the healthy start grant and the cloth nappies grant combined comes to almost what a ERF carseat would cost:flower:


----------



## Sherileigh

I'm confused about the price thing? People are saying it's expensive to ERF? Maybe things are different here, or maybe I'm just not understanding what type of seat you need to ERF? We technically are ERF, as my son has just hit 21lbs at 17.5 months, he's still underweight for FF. I'm not in a rush. He's happy RF, so am I. My seat goes both ways and is even a booster when he's older. Or is there another type of seat for them being older (and longer) and RF? Sorry if this has been answered already, just have to go to work sadly, didn't have time to read the whole thread!


----------



## Vici

bambino156 said:


> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.

Maybe not, but grants aren't given out for nothing! They are given out because in the long run that 1 baby in cloth will safe local councils lots of money! I cannot ever see a grant for car safety, they don't have one now for compulsory seats (infant carriers, toddler seats or booster seats) so its hardly likely grants would be given for voluntary ERF seats!


----------



## RJsMum

xbabybumpx said:


> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.
> 
> Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.Click to expand...
> 
> I had no idea that you got a grant for cloth nappies,thats crazy! no offence to you:flower:Click to expand...
> 
> There's nothing "environmentally friendly" about an erf seat vs a normal rw/ff seat so I doubt they'll ever give grants for that tbh.Click to expand...
> 
> Surely a childs life is more important then being "enviromentally freindly". Maybe with the healthy start grant and the grant for cloth nappies they could give the grants for the ERF carseat instead.I mean the healthy start grant and the cloth nappies grant combined comes to almost what a ERF carseat would cost:flower:Click to expand...

In fairness, it's comparing apples and oranges. Both are important issues only one is dealing with the longevity to the protection of the environment and the other dealing with safety...it's like comparing the singing talent of an opera singer and a pop star.

But I DO agree that I may have preferred the option for a voucher towards ERF seats over cloth nappies as we didn't make the choice ourselves to use cloth nappies. (Couldn't get DH on board as much as I would have liked to)


----------



## Floralaura

I FF, from 9mths and I do it with a 2nd hand car seat too, the shock!
Doing that suits me, my LO and my lifestyle regarding transport. I know the benifits of ERF, I have watched the videos, I have researched the options and I have done what is best for us. For people to try and make out like people that FF are putting their Kids at risk, on purpose, are mental. Parents do what is best for them, not whats best for other people.
Also I get the distinct impression that there are some people that on come into Baby club for a bit of a argument as it seems thats their only input over here. Shame.


----------



## xbabybumpx

RJsMum said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bambino156 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. *Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?*I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> If you ask me, and its just my opinion, grants for ERF carseats would be more beneficial that grants for cloth nappies, carseats are a matter of safety and as far as i'm aware, cloth nappies aren't.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you. I got £30 towards my cloth nappies but would prefer if that money was put towards a ERF seat.
> 
> Presumably someone had to set up the cloth nappy initiative, so we, as parents, have a responsibility to lobby for ERF seats to be the norm.Click to expand...
> 
> I had no idea that you got a grant for cloth nappies,thats crazy! no offence to you:flower:Click to expand...
> 
> There's nothing "environmentally friendly" about an erf seat vs a normal rw/ff seat so I doubt they'll ever give grants for that tbh.Click to expand...
> 
> Surely a childs life is more important then being "enviromentally freindly". Maybe with the healthy start grant and the grant for cloth nappies they could give the grants for the ERF carseat instead.I mean the healthy start grant and the cloth nappies grant combined comes to almost what a ERF carseat would cost:flower:Click to expand...
> 
> In fairness, it's comparing apples and oranges. Both are important issues only one is dealing with the longevity to the protection of the environment and the other dealing with safety...it's like comparing the singing talent of an opera singer and a pop star.
> 
> But I DO agree that I may have preferred the option for a voucher towards ERF seats over cloth nappies as we didn't make the choice ourselves to use cloth nappies. (Couldn't get DH on board as much as I would have liked to)Click to expand...

I obviously live in a fairy world with rose tinted glasses.Must stop watching Disney!!:haha: xox


----------



## xbabybumpx

Floralaura said:


> I FF, from 9mths and I do it with a 2nd hand car seat too, the shock!
> Doing that suits me, my LO and my lifestyle regarding transport. I know the benifits of ERF, I have watched the videos, I have researched the options and I have done what is best for us. For people to try and make out like people that FF are putting their Kids at risk, on purpose, are mental. Parents do what is best for them, not whats best for other people.
> Also I get the distinct impression that there are some people that on come into Baby club for a bit of a argument as it seems thats their only input over here. Shame.

You dont have to explain yourself:flower:


----------



## SKATERBUN

leelee said:


> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?
> 
> I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...

I think what they'll say (playing devils advocate here) is that the expense of a good seat is all part and parcle of having a baby (that sounded very matthew wright lol) and owning a car. It is a safety issue yes but some people will say well they chose to have children or chose to drive a car. BTW I'm not saying RJs mums wrong, totally agree.
Also manufacturers will say that they are selling the seats at a reasonable cost considering the work and materials that go into producing them and tbh they do only cost the same as a years car insurance (for me anyway :winkwink:) and will last up to 4 years. If manufacturers are driven to bring the price of the seats down then maybe the quality will suffer. just a thought -
as someone else mentioned they are still a hell of a lot cheaper than the price we paid for our travel systems for example. In terms of availabilty in the UK, it appears there may be more suppliers than I thought, so maybe the word is being spread because of threads like this :D :flower:


----------



## Lu28

Floralaura said:


> I FF, from 9mths and I do it with a 2nd hand car seat too, the shock!
> Doing that suits me, my LO and my lifestyle regarding transport. I know the benifits of ERF, I have watched the videos, I have researched the options and I have done what is best for us. *For people to try and make out like people that FF are putting their Kids at risk, on purpose, are mental.* Parents do what is best for them, not whats best for other people.
> Also I get the distinct impression that there are some people that on come into Baby club for a bit of a argument as it seems thats their only input over here. Shame.

I haven't seen anything of the sort on this thread. This thread is about raising awareness of the benefits of ERF, not criticising those who FF.


----------



## Blah11

Sherileigh said:


> I'm confused about the price thing? People are saying it's expensive to ERF? Maybe things are different here, or maybe I'm just not understanding what type of seat you need to ERF? We technically are ERF, as my son has just hit 21lbs at 17.5 months, he's still underweight for FF. I'm not in a rush. He's happy RF, so am I. My seat goes both ways and is even a booster when he's older. Or is there another type of seat for them being older (and longer) and RF? Sorry if this has been answered already, just have to go to work sadly, didn't have time to read the whole thread!

yes ERFers go up to 55lbs :)


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

SKATERBUN said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJsMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> melorablack said:
> 
> 
> How about you repost this video when the majority of car seats available to buy at an affordable price are extended rf car seats and actually fit the majority of cars because as it is most people don't have any choice on which they use.
> 
> Why don't WE, as consumers, rise up and DO something about this because I, one of many, think it's ridiculous that we don't have more affordable options, nor do we have much of a selection without having to rely on other countries or websites to ship them in.
> 
> ::grabs goldfish in bowl:: Who's with me?:happydance:Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree with you RJsMum - why don't we put all this energy is doing something about it? Writing to the local MPs, taking it up with Mothercare, Halfords etc. Try to see if we can get ERF grants towards seats. Afterall there are grants for cloth nappies so why shouldn't there be grants for ERF seats?
> 
> I haven't watched the video as I have read extensively about ERF seats before this thread. You do have the choice not to watch it. If this thread ensures that even 1 more person buys a ERF seat then that is a good thing.Click to expand...
> 
> I think what they'll say (playing devils advocate here) is that the expense of a good seat is all part and parcle of having a baby and owning a car. It is a safety issue yes but some people will say well they chose to have children or chose to drive a car. BTW I'm saying RJs mums wrong, totally agree.
> Also manufacturers will say that they are selling the seats at a reasonable cost considering the work and materials that go into producing them and tbh they do only cost the same as a years car insurance (for me anyway :winkwink:) and will last up to 4 years. If manufacturers are driven to bring the price of the seats down then maybe the quality will suffer. just a thought -
> as someone else mentioned they are still a hell of a lot cheaper than the price we paid for our travel systems for example. In terms of availabilty in the UK, it appears there may be more suppliers than I thought, so maybe the word is being spread because of threads like this :D :flower:Click to expand...

hmm... I don't think the price will go down because they know that parents WILL pay whatever the price for peace of mind, just like they know teenagers will bug their parents for a PS3 until they get one or £90 trainers, ok bad comparison but they have you over a barrel.
It is the whole 'you can't put a price on safety' thing and parents are naturally suckers for that, that is part of being a parent. 
I bet if you pull the seat apart you will find 'made in china' or the likes which means that they aren't worth the money in the first place. 
I have said for a long time, years in fact that car seats are stupid money - why should you have to comprimise because of price? 
I saw a baby seat in asda baby event for £25!!! 
I cant even get a replacement rain cover for mine for that money....


----------



## RJsMum

xbabybumpx said:


> Floralaura said:
> 
> 
> I FF, from 9mths and I do it with a 2nd hand car seat too, the shock!
> Doing that suits me, my LO and my lifestyle regarding transport. I know the benifits of ERF, I have watched the videos, I have researched the options and I have done what is best for us. For people to try and make out like people that FF are putting their Kids at risk, on purpose, are mental. Parents do what is best for them, not whats best for other people.
> Also I get the distinct impression that there are some people that on come into Baby club for a bit of a argument as it seems thats their only input over here. Shame.
> 
> You dont have to explain yourself:flower:Click to expand...

I honestly think that posts like these are from people who haven't taken the time to read more of the responses of the thread and see that it has actually started to go in quite a positive direction with lots of valuable information. I forsee many more people making their posts defensively because they feel like they're being attacked or told they're doing something wrong...and they're not.


----------



## SKATERBUN

^ £25?? what was the make, was it just a good seat on special offer or was it not worth touching with a barge pole, Id be very dubious if I came across a seat for £25! :D


----------



## ouchwithNo.2

SKATERBUN said:


> ^ £25?? what was the make, was it just a good seat on special offer or was it not worth touching with a barge pole, Id be very dubious if I came across a seat for £25! :D

this is the one : 
https://direct.asda.com/Nania-Trio-Plus-Car-Seat/002659799,default,pd.html


----------



## Szaffi

We also decided on an ERF - but we are taking the risk that DD will hate it. We thought long about it, but OH is working in the car industry, and he as convinced it's the best thing to do. FF seat is already fairly safe, but it's a fact that an ERF seat is safer in most collision situations. 

I sadly lost my father in a car accident a couple of years ago, so I realize that I'm very paranoid and sensitive when it comes to car safety. That's why I left OH to make the decision.


----------



## Seraphim

Szaffi :hugs:


----------



## purpledahlia

Ive just spent ages reading this entire thread and to be honest im pretty shocked at some of the responses and who some of the posters are!!

Raising awareness about ERF is NOT critizising people who FF! Why do people think it is? Why do people jump on the defensive?

ERF is becoming more and more common because people are spending time to raise awareness about it! If an infant is safest RF in a stage 1 seat, why would you not understand a small child is STILL safer RF in a stage 2 seat? 

Yes theyre expensive in general, But so are FF seats? Its not that much of a jump to get a ERF seat? IT lasts YEARS. Save up!? 

I am a single mother and didnt have a job at the time of buying Ava's ERF seat, But i saved up and sold some old baby clothes and stuff. Its not hard? Most of you arent even on your own so have at least one income so i really dont understand why price is SUCH a big issue. Obviously money is tight in this day and age, it is for everyone. But this is your babys safety. I got the Britax first class plus so shes just about to turn 1 and will be able to RF till almost 2 i think. But im starting to save NOW for a ERF one, which will last till 4 or so. 

I have nothing against parents who choose to FF, for whatever reasons, money, their car, their lifestye. whatever! Ava has a FF maxi-cosi seat in my mums car, because MY Rf seat wasnt 100% safe RF in her car, (we checked with the shop) It was safer for her to FF in a different seat than have my RF seat installed in her car. So that was what we did. But if i had had the money for an ERF seat which fitted her car id of got it? 

This isnt a debate about FF not being safe, Its simply saying ERF is safer. Of course FF seats are safe, they wouldnt be sold otherwise. But ERF ones are MORE safer. People should be open to realise that this is possible. Its not a dig at all at anyone. If you dont like it then dont read it!? 

I've lost friends in car accidents and i neaarly lost both my parents in one too and then my mum in another one, so car safety is more important to me than something else which the money might otherwise be spent on. Id rather eat beans on toast for a few weeks and be able to have her RF till as long as possible. Thats MY choice.


----------



## twiggy56

I cant believe people are angry at the OP for making them aware of FACTS that could keep their child from braking their neck?! What is wrong with people?!

The OP is actually being attacked because people want to be blissfully ignorant about carseat safety?! Im honestly gobsmacked that mothers wouldnt want to know about something that could make thier baby safer?! MADNESS!!

ITS NOT A GUILT TRIP. Its an informative video with quotations of factual information from highly respected industry experts?! If you feel guilty then that comes from within YOU, not from the OP.

After I did the research on this when choosing my childs next stage carseat, the FACTS say ERF is safer, therefore we took the financial hit, sold and borrowed to get her an ERF seat. That was our choice and I can say that before being on this forum I didnt even consider it.

If you dont like it and wish to be blissfully ignorant- DONT WATCH. SIMPLE.


----------



## purpledahlia

I forgot to say aswell, it was babyandbump which brought me the awareness too. And im thankfull!


----------



## dani_tinks

:saywhat: And calling is ignorant isn't attacking us?
Sorry, but I don't mind people raising awareness for ERF of course I don't, but going on about how we're ignorant knowing the risks and going against it IS MADNESS.
We love our babies just as much, and we care about their safety too. There's no need to be RUDE.


----------



## bubbles123

LO is still rear facing, will be until he no longer fits in it. Trouble is though, we had a nightmare finding an infant seat that would fit in our car at all (the seat belts are quite short) so the chances of an ERF fitting are very small. I go for the option of taking LO in the car as little as possible (I don't drive and we live in a town where you can walk everywhere so we can go weeks and never go in a car). Sounds more like it's a problem with car manufactures and seat manufacturers. And try as you might, many people will simply be unable to afford to import 400 euro car seats from Sweden. That would take you a mighty long time to save up if you were on benefits for example.


----------



## Lu28

dani_tinks said:


> :saywhat: And calling is ignorant isn't attacking us?
> Sorry, but I don't mind people raising awareness for ERF of course I don't, but going on about how we're ignorant knowing the risks and going against it IS MADNESS.
> We love our babies just as much, and we care about their safety too. There's no need to be RUDE.

Nobody called those who choose to FF ignorant, there was a comment that some would appear to prefer to remain ignorant of the risks of FF by attacking the OP for posting the video in the first place. Lets not make an issue where one doesn't exist.


----------



## twiggy56

dani_tinks said:


> :saywhat: And calling is ignorant isn't attacking *us*?

Who is 'us'?! THIS is the problem. Its not a 'us vs you' thing. We are all mothers and we all want the best for our children. Why do people turn it into 'us' being on the defensive?!

and anyway the word ignorant means lack of knowledge on a particular subject. Its not a 'name calling' word. Which it has been turned into.


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## dani_tinks

Us as in me and my DF, I always say us :)
& I am aware of what the words ignorant means!!


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## purpledahlia

For anyone interested,
Theres a new ERF carseat out, Its made by VOLVO, and its basically the same as the Britax Multi Tech but comes in at half the price. ( so basically the same price as a standard FF seat ) So you can email your local volvo stockist or look it up online.


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## twiggy56

bubbles123 said:


> LO is still rear facing, will be until he no longer fits in it. Trouble is though, we had a nightmare finding an infant seat that would fit in our car at all (the seat belts are quite short) so the chances of an ERF fitting are very small. I go for the option of taking LO in the car as little as possible (I don't drive and we live in a town where you can walk everywhere so we can go weeks and never go in a car). Sounds more like it's a problem with car manufactures and seat manufacturers. And try as you might, many people will simply be unable to afford to import 400 euro car seats from Sweden. That would take you a mighty long time to save up if you were on benefits for example.

Have a look at the ERF support thread, I learned loads in there and some ERF are fine for smaller cars...https://www.babyandbump.com/natural-parenting/253346-rear-facing-support-questions-answers.html

:thumbup:


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## purpledahlia

dani_tinks said:


> Us as in me and my DF, I always say us :)

She wasnt attacking you and your DF. :thumbup:


----------



## ttc_lolly

I am completely clueless as to why people are feeling offended by this thread and calling it 'scaremongering' :wacko: I thought it was a lovely video, made by a loving grandparent showing what happened to his grandson and that they didn't realise RF was safer than FF before, if they had things may have been different :shrug: I honstly didn't know 2/3's of the facts until watching that video and seeing some of the helpful advice and links, so thankyou OP and others for sharing :thumbup: it's just such a shame that yet again people are trying to make an argument out of nothing, seems to be happening a bit too much on baby club lately x


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## twiggy56

dani_tinks said:


> Us as in me and my DF, I always say us :)
> & I am aware of what the words ignorant means!!

I never mentioned you or your DF in my post, it is you that has chosen to address my post to yourself. Not I.


----------



## dani_tinks

That's because I found it rude. Who are you calling ignorant exactly? People who choose not to ERF? Because we for one did our research and looked into it fully. It is a childs safety at risk right? And i'm sure we're not alone. Call me naive but I doubt other parents would willingly put their child in danger. Therefore most people who use FF are NOT ignorant.


----------



## Eala

bubbles123 said:


> LO is still rear facing, will be until he no longer fits in it. Trouble is though, we had a nightmare finding an infant seat that would fit in our car at all (the seat belts are quite short) so the chances of an ERF fitting are very small. I go for the option of taking LO in the car as little as possible (I don't drive and we live in a town where you can walk everywhere so we can go weeks and never go in a car). Sounds more like it's a problem with car manufactures and seat manufacturers. And try as you might, many people will simply be unable to afford to import 400 euro car seats from Sweden. That would take you a mighty long time to save up if you were on benefits for example.

Don't think anyone is saying you need to buy the most expensive seat out there :shrug: There are good ones from Sweden from £250, and ones available in the UK for that price too. And as purpledahlia pointed out, the long-awaited Volvo seats have finally been released which are apparently going to be the same price as some FF seats.

As for the seatbelt problem, again, that's not necessarily an issue. Our seat fits with either Isofix or seatbelts, and our last car had very short seatbelts (we couldn't fit some infant carriers in it). For our carseat (and some others), the seatbelt goes through the base/front of the seat, so there isn't an issue with the belt having to stretch around the back of the seat.


----------



## SKATERBUN

bubbles123 said:


> LO is still rear facing, will be until he no longer fits in it. Trouble is though, we had a nightmare finding an infant seat that would fit in our car at all (*the seat belts are quite short*) so the chances of an ERF fitting are very small. I go for the option of taking LO in the car as little as possible (I don't drive and we live in a town where you can walk everywhere so we can go weeks and never go in a car). Sounds more like it's a problem with car manufactures and seat manufacturers. And try as you might, many people will simply be unable to afford to import 400 euro car seats from Sweden. That would take you a mighty long time to save up if you were on benefits for example.

well thats the problem I faced with the RF baby seat I got with the travel system, I ended up buying a base


----------



## Lu28

dani_tinks said:


> That's because I found it rude. Who are you calling ignorant exactly? People who choose not to ERF? Because we for one did our research and looked into it fully. It is a childs safety at risk right? And i'm sure we're not alone. Call me naive but I doubt other parents would willingly put their child in danger. Therefore most people who use FF are NOT ignorant.

She was quite clearly talking about those who choose not to inform themselves of the risks of FF, not those who know the risks and make a decision that is right for them.


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

dani_tinks said:


> Us as in me and my DF, I always say us :)
> & I am aware of what the words ignorant means!!

You can forgive twiggy for assuming you were talking for yourself and the other ladies that are FF after your "We love our babies just as much". See, if you only have one baby and you talk about *WE* loving *OUR BABIES *just as much, people tend to think you are talking beyond the realms of you and your OH.


----------



## Eala

This thread was actually going somewhere positive for a while :shrug: What on earth happened? 

I know of several threads where people have been (for example) trying to convince their OH of why they want to keep LO RF for as long as possible. This kind of thread could be very useful to them in that there is loads of information. Is there really any need to derail it into a "them and us" style slanging match?


----------



## dani_tinks

I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand why anyone would not know the risks involved when it's something as important as a car seat though?

And please stop taking my posts apart and nitpicking. :dohh:


----------



## purpledahlia

dani_tinks said:


> That's because I found it rude. Who are you calling ignorant exactly? People who choose not to ERF? Because we for one did our research and looked into it fully. It is a childs safety at risk right? And i'm sure we're not alone. Call me naive but I doubt other parents would willingly put their child in danger. Therefore most people who use FF are NOT ignorant.

She wasnt calling anyone Ignorant. Youve taken the post wrongly. The fact some people do not reaserch these things is an ignorance on their part for not looking into whats available. Just going by standard shops guidelines like mothercare etc.. Thats the point. people need to take more initiative. 

I dont know why you have taken it so personally, you said you did the reaserch and settled on a FF seat for you, thats fine, her post clearly wasnt about YOU. you should feel satisfied enough with your choice if you did the reaserch. Some parents dont look into it and thats where threads like this be`come invaluable.


----------



## twiggy56

I am not going to sit here and make a list of exactly the comments *I* found offensive and rude...

Iv not addressed you OR your DF in my post. I have not addressed anyone. Therefore im not going to waste my time defending myself to you against something I havent done.


----------



## purpledahlia

dani_tinks said:


> I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand why anyone would not know the risks involved when it's something as important as a car seat though?
> 
> And please stop taking my posts apart and nitpicking. :dohh:

Some people just dont know theres other things available and think the standard mothercare is the best so thats why these threads are helpfull to let others learn there IS more out there... I wouldnt have known about ERF if it wasnt for a similar thread. :thumbup:


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

dani_tinks said:


> I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand why anyone would not know the risks involved when it's something as important as a car seat though?
> 
> And please stop taking my posts apart and nitpicking. :dohh:

You admitted feeling insulted, and I was merely trying to make you understand where Twiggy was coming from. Aaaargh, never mind. tis a pointless exercise. :dohh:

Now, can we please get this thread back to its glory days.


----------



## twiggy56

dani_tinks said:


> I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand why anyone would not know the risks involved when it's something as important as a car seat though?
> 
> And please stop taking my posts apart and nitpicking. :dohh:

Some people DONT, thats why these threads are so important. I would have looked into what was on the market and what fitted our car best etc....BUT all that is available on the UK mainstream market is FF. So therefore alot of people could have done their 'research' but yet not found this information. So what you find extremely difficult to understand is actually happening ALL the time in the UK when people go to their next stage carseat.

For some reason you have chosen to believe iv addressed my post to you and your DF. I have no idea why when i clearly address those who chose to not look at the information on erf AT ALL.


----------



## louandivy

I am actually finding this post very useful and interesting, as I don't have a car I hadn't given it much thought but will definitely be looking into ERF seats when the time comes. I have no idea why we can't have a discussion about alternative options without people getting insulted!


----------



## vixy

I just noticed the post that said a cheaper one is £250????!!! thats cheap?? I dont have £250 to spare. I dont even want to be involved in the thread so wont say my opinion and i couldnt bring myself to watch the video . ta ta


----------



## twiggy56

louandivy said:


> I am actually finding this post very useful and interesting, as I don't have a car I hadn't given it much thought but will definitely be looking into ERF seats when the time comes.* I have no idea why we can't have a discussion about alternative options without people getting insulted*!

Me neither :dohh:

Its such a shame as it could save lives...*sigh*


----------



## NG09

Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.


----------



## vixy

twiggy56 said:


> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> I am actually finding this post very useful and interesting, as I don't have a car I hadn't given it much thought but will definitely be looking into ERF seats when the time comes.* I have no idea why we can't have a discussion about alternative options without people getting insulted*!
> 
> Me neither :dohh:
> 
> Its such a shame as it could save lives...*sigh*Click to expand...

I agree sweet but i cant see it ever changing unfortunatly so i now choose to stay out of it x


----------



## Bluetomato

Does anyone know anything about the volvo carseat? Im guessing its the same as the britax multi tec (I think). Id be interested in getting it for Dom x


----------



## purpledahlia

vixy said:


> I just noticed the post that said a cheaper one is £250????!!! thats cheap?? I dont have £250 to spare. I dont even want to be involved in the thread so wont say my opinion and i couldnt bring myself to watch the video . ta ta

some FF seats are £250? Most average arund £150-£200.. Its only £50 or £100 to save? If a single mother with no job living on £60 a week can save up to do it im sure anyone else can tbh. If its important enough to u. The video is actually really informative maybe you should take the time to watch it. :thumbup:


----------



## purpledahlia

Bluetomato said:


> Does anyone know anything about the volvo carseat? Im guessing its the same as the britax multi tec (I think). Id be interested in getting it for Dom x

Its the same yes.. but volvo make it instead of britax! Have a look on google, i dont know much more about it other than you have to ring your local volvo car dealer to get it i think x


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## Lu28

NG09 said:


> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.

I'm confused - you said it was scaremongering and people disagreed with you - not sure where it is you think people 'took the hump'???


----------



## bubbles123

The issue appears to me to be the availability ad price of ERF car seat in the UK. Therefore, best plan is to resort to people power. All go into Mothercare etc and ask for a ERF car seat. Email the manufacturers etc. If there is demand, they will provide.
Also, it seems that until the government endorses ERF then little will change so maybe a little lobbying of your local MP maybe called for too.


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## purpledahlia

This thread and the fact im snowed in has actually inspired me to email some big car seat stockist's ...


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## louandivy

bubbles123 said:


> The issue appears to me to be the availability ad price of ERF car seat in the UK. Therefore, best plan is to resort to people power. All go into Mothercare etc and ask for a ERF car seat. Email the manufacturers etc. If there is demand, they will provide.
> Also, it seems that until the government endorses ERF then little will change so maybe a little lobbying of your local MP maybe called for too.

I find it strange that there is so little reported about ERF in the U.K, until I had joined this site I had never even heard of it before! Considering that car safety is probably one of the most important purchases for your child you'd think they'd be more widely available.


----------



## dani_tinks

I'm not insane, I know your post wasn't directed at me and my partner directly; but it did seem like it was directed at anyone who had chosen to FF which is why I replied. But yeah, I obviously misunderstood.


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

NG09 said:


> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.

It should work both ways but you're definitely not helping matters much when one comment into the thread you make a snide remark. The thread was clearly titled and you honestly didn&#8217;t have to view it, much less comment on it if bothers you THAT much and you are of the opinion that the topic has been discussed to death.


----------



## redpoppy

I'm loving the turn this thread has taken! Revolution people! revolution! :happydance::happydance::happydance: 

Sorry, I've got quite the dormant activist in me waiting to be awoken. :blush:


----------



## NG09

Lu28 said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> I'm confused - you said it was scaremongering and people disagreed with you - not sure where it is you think people 'took the hump'???Click to expand...

*some* people disagreed. Yeah *some* people saying it's crazy, madness etc to think this thread was scaremongering would tell me that only sometimes it's alright to have an alternative opinion. Anyway, that's not the point of the thread. IMO, it was to cause yet more controversy...... oh, where is the OP by the way??


----------



## NG09

I_AM_LIVID said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> It should work both ways but you're definitely not helping matters much when one comment into the thread you make a snide remark. The thread was clearly titled and you honestly didnt have to view it, much less comment on it if bothers you THAT much and you are of the opinion that the topic has been discussed to death.Click to expand...

:roll:


----------



## SKATERBUN

NG09 said:


> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> I'm confused - you said it was scaremongering and people disagreed with you - not sure where it is you think people 'took the hump'???Click to expand...
> 
> *some* people disagreed. Yeah *some* people saying it's crazy, madness etc to think this thread was scaremongering would tell me that only sometimes it's alright to have an alternative opinion. Anyway, that's not the point of the thread. IMO, it was to cause yet more controversy...... *oh, where is the OP by the way??*Click to expand...

Just getting up probably as shes from Canada :)


----------



## Lu28

NG09 said:


> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> I'm confused - you said it was scaremongering and people disagreed with you - not sure where it is you think people 'took the hump'???Click to expand...
> 
> *some* people disagreed. Yeah *some* people saying it's crazy, madness etc to think this thread was scaremongering would tell me that only sometimes it's alright to have an alternative opinion. Anyway, that's not the point of the thread. IMO, it was to cause yet more controversy...... oh, where is the OP by the way??Click to expand...

Mmm, perhaps busy with her life?? This was clearly a case of raising awareness, not controversy.


----------



## louandivy

Lu28 said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> I'm confused - you said it was scaremongering and people disagreed with you - not sure where it is you think people 'took the hump'???Click to expand...
> 
> *some* people disagreed. Yeah *some* people saying it's crazy, madness etc to think this thread was scaremongering would tell me that only sometimes it's alright to have an alternative opinion. Anyway, that's not the point of the thread. IMO, it was to cause yet more controversy...... oh, where is the OP by the way??Click to expand...
> 
> Mmm, perhaps busy with her life?? This was clearly a case of raising awareness, not controversy.Click to expand...

Agreed, I doubt most people post threads with the intent to cause controversy, I like to think we're all a little more mature than that!


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

NG09 said:


> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> It should work both ways but you're definitely not helping matters much when one comment into the thread you make a snide remark. The thread was clearly titled and you honestly didnt have to view it, much less comment on it if bothers you THAT much and you are of the opinion that the topic has been discussed to death.Click to expand...
> 
> :roll:Click to expand...

Glad you agree. I'll take that flower now.:smug:


----------



## SKATERBUN

^ LOL poor _nervousgal _is going to have some reading to do today ;)


----------



## Vici

Those who don't see this as unrelated to other subjects - funny how similar threads were closed - one on the dangers of incorrectly preparing formula and one on the dangers of dispoable nappies? Both dangerous to children but not widely discussed?!


----------



## NG09

I_AM_LIVID said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> It should work both ways but you're definitely not helping matters much when one comment into the thread you make a snide remark. The thread was clearly titled and you honestly didnt have to view it, much less comment on it if bothers you THAT much and you are of the opinion that the topic has been discussed to death.Click to expand...
> 
> :roll:Click to expand...
> 
> Glad you agree. I'll take that flower now.:smug:Click to expand...


:flow::flow::flow:


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

NG09 said:


> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I_AM_LIVID said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.
> 
> It should work both ways but you're definitely not helping matters much when one comment into the thread you make a snide remark. The thread was clearly titled and you honestly didnt have to view it, much less comment on it if bothers you THAT much and you are of the opinion that the topic has been discussed to death.Click to expand...
> 
> :roll:Click to expand...
> 
> Glad you agree. I'll take that flower now.:smug:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> :flow::flow::flow:Click to expand...

:hugs:


----------



## RJsMum

NG09 said:


> Well as it goes I had an 'alternative opinion' to this thread and people took the hump but that's alright is it?? I'm afraid it has to work both ways.

No offense, but your "alternative opinion" in your initial response to the start of the thread came across as "great, another one of THESE threads." You may be of the opinion that it's a scaremonger tactic, but being that a scaremonger is generally someone who circulates alarming rumours, it doesn't quite fit. The video wasn't made to induce fear, but rather to inform. Nothing about the video was graphic...just a grandfather telling a story about what happened to his 18-month-old grandson and how HE and others in the family weren't aware of the additional safety ERF provides in a collision. Fair enough if the OP made a statement like "all you who put your LOs FF are making a huge mistake," but she didn't. She posted the video to share with others how it opened her eyes.

When someone comes in with negativity from the start, it really sets the tone sometimes for the thread. Fortunately, this thread managed to recover and turn into an INFORMATIVE discussion about options, rather than a debate over who is going to win 'Parent of the Year' for their choices.

It didn't need to go south.

ETA - I see that I_AM_LIVID and I posted at about the same time...so I hope you don't feel this is an attack at you.


----------



## SKATERBUN

There seemed to be a lot of bandwagon jumping at first, its like well she had the guts to say it so will I. I'm starting to feel like there is a 'them and us' on BNB I really do at times :(


----------



## purpledahlia

People need to be more open minded really. everyone, of everything. the general society these days is all out for themselves. And no, im not talking about any particular person on bnb, im talking about society as a whole. open-mindedness seems to be missing! Find it! Bring it back to earth! People need to take time before jumping in and replying, look at both sides and try to see what people are ACTUALLY saying. Its a shame that these days everyone just assumes the worst in others :(


----------



## Eala

Found some information on the Volvo carseats:



> The new Volvo convertible child seat can be used rearward facing from nine months until about six years of age. When the child has outgrown the seat facing rearward, it can be turned forward and then converts into a comfortable highback booster seat. Recommended retail price is £157.76 including VAT.

They are also going to be selling an infant seat (which is £200 with Isofix base and an Isofix "mounting kit"). And a booster seat.

£160 for what is essentially an updated Britax Multi-Tech is absolutely fantastic! When I was purchasing my ERF seat there wasn't even a release date for the Volvo seats yet, but if I was having to buy another seat, I'd seriously be looking at this. Up until a couple of months ago, all our cars have been Volvos as they are just so safe :)


----------



## purpledahlia

Eala do you know if it ONLY fits Volvo cars?


----------



## NG09

SKATERBUN said:


> There seemed to be a lot of bandwagon jumping at first, its like well she had the guts to say it so will I. I'm starting to feel like there is a 'them and us' on BNB I really do at times :(

Me and you both!


----------



## OmarsMum

This issue has been discussed several times. A freaky video is not informative, facts are. Many of us cant go for an extended rear facing carseat, & it's not about spending a bit more on a carseat, we all try our best to seek the best for our LOs. I couldnt watch the video. 

We bought an ERF carseat but it didnt fit in the car & the weight limit was 13 kgs (this is the max we can get here). So we had to exchange it with Forward facing carseat. Omar is already 12 kgs. We went for the best available in the market that would last until he's 28 kgs. Using carseats is not forced here as long as the child is sitting in the back seat but we are not doing it because it's a RULE, we'r using a carseat because it's the right thing to do. 

Adding worries to those who cant use a ERFing for any reason is very desturbing. It's the same like saying formula will poison your LOs, co-sleeping will kill them, early weaning will give them long term allergies & medical problems, using talc will cause cancer, not BFing will give moms cancer, etc. 

We have a lot to worry about, & we dont need a video to add more worries to our lives


----------



## Eala

I can't find any information that says anything either way :dohh:

Essentially they are Britax Multi-Techs, and Isofix is Isofix... I guess the best way to know would be to contact Volvo UK and ask, as there just isn't anything on the website. I can imagine that they'd prefer that everyone bought a Volvo car to go with the seat :rofl:


----------



## xbabybumpx

when is this volvo seat coming out?? xox


----------



## Eala

You know what, you choose your own reaction to information. You choose to read threads. You choose how you will respond to these threads. If you choose to read a thread when you have had negative reactions to the issue in the past, why is it everyone elses' fault? :shrug: 

I avoid threads on BF/FF and so on, because it's an issue I still find painful to think about. I can usually predict how these threads will go, so why would I put myself in a position where I'll be upset/offended, when I can just as easily walk away? Because I just *have* to have my 2p worth? Is it actually worth it?

So many threads which could be full of good support and information go downhill because people just have to get on their soap-box, on _both_ sides of whatever fence is being shouted across :dohh:


----------



## purpledahlia

Eala said:


> I can't find any information that says anything either way :dohh:
> 
> Essentially they are Britax Multi-Techs, and Isofix is Isofix... I guess the best way to know would be to contact Volvo UK and ask, as there just isn't anything on the website. I can imagine that they'd prefer that everyone bought a Volvo car to go with the seat :rofl:

Im pretty sure i read that it was for every car but i cant remember where. Im gonna look into this seat i think its perfect for me!


----------



## Eala

xbabybumpx said:


> when is this volvo seat coming out?? xox

As far as I know, it's available now. Contact your local Volvo dealer :)


----------



## SKATERBUN

purpledahlia said:


> *People need to be more open minded really. everyone, of everything. the general society these days is all out for themselves. *And no, im not talking about any particular person on bnb, im talking about *society as a whole. open-mindedness seems to be missing!* Find it! Bring it back to earth! People need to take time before jumping in and replying, look at both sides and try to see what people are ACTUALLY saying. Its a shame that these days everyone just assumes the worst in others :(

One of the best things about working for a blue chip company I was once told to 'think outside the box and look at the bigger picture to achieve results' 
Never a truer word spoken, it helps all in humanity in the long term :)


----------



## purpledahlia

Its a shame people who havnt watched the video are slamming it, Its not freaky, its informative! If you havnt watched it please dont comment on it?


----------



## Lu28

nmwb78 said:


> This issue has been discussed several times. A freaky video is not informative, facts are. Many of us cant go for an extended rear facing carseat, & it's not about spending a bit more on a carseat, we all try our best to seek the best for our LOs. I couldnt watch the video.
> 
> We bought an ERF carseat but it didnt fit in the car & the weight limit was 13 kgs (this is the max we can get here). So we had to exchange it with Forward facing carseat. Omar is already 12 kgs. We went for the best available in the market that would last until he's 28 kgs. Using carseats is not forced here as long as the child is sitting in the back seat but we are not doing it because it's a RULE, we'r using a carseat because it's the right thing to do.
> 
> Adding worries to those who cant use a ERFing for any reason is very desturbing. It's the same like saying formula will poison your LOs, co-sleeping will kill them, early weaning will give them long term allergies & medical problems, using talc will cause cancer, not BFing will give moms cancer, etc.
> 
> We have a lot to worry about, & we dont need a video to add more worries to our lives

It's not a 'freaky' video and you might be in a better position to judge it if you had watched it.

If you're happy in your decision to FF, as I am, then further information on ERF shouldn't bother you. If this information helps future parents make a more informed decision then it's well worth it.


----------



## RJsMum

nmwb78 said:


> This issue has been discussed several times. A freaky video is not informative, facts are. Many of us cant go for an extended rear facing carseat, & it's not about spending a bit more on a carseat, we all try our best to seek the best for our LOs. I couldnt watch the video.
> 
> We bought an ERF carseat but it didnt fit in the car & the weight limit was 13 kgs (this is the max we can get here). So we had to exchange it with Forward facing carseat. Omar is already 12 kgs. We went for the best available in the market that would last until he's 28 kgs. Using carseats is not forced here as long as the child is sitting in the back seat but we are not doing it because it's a RULE, we'r using a carseat because it's the right thing to do.
> 
> Adding worries to those who cant use a ERFing for any reason is very desturbing. It's the same like saying formula will poison your LOs, co-sleeping will kill them, early weaning will give them long term allergies & medical problems, using talc will cause cancer, not BFing will give moms cancer, etc.
> 
> We have a lot to worry about, & we dont need a video to add more worries to our lives

Have you watched this "freaky video"? It's full of facts and not so much of the freaky, in fairness.

ERF as far as I knew meant seats that go over the standard 13kg limit for RF. It's a shame that you're not able to get one due to your location, but you said yourself that you chose to even get a carseat for safety even though it isn't a rule there. No one is saying what you're doing is wrong.

Also, if you were able to see the video and read how the thread went you'd see it wasn't at all about how "bad" parents who don't do ERF are, but more to inform those who weren't aware of ERF and the additional safety it provides.


----------



## SKATERBUN

I know what to expect from the video but dont want to watch it as feeling rather hormonal at the moment and get squeamish at hospital things - I have read up about the subject on other websites now though, but still grateful that the issue was brought to my attention today. :D


----------



## NG09

Look, to save a lot more aggrovation, lets just make something clear. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no issue with the FF/ERF topic, infact I have learned a lot too from this thread, I just didn't like the way it was done. I did watch the video and found it freaky too. I suppose it all comes down to personal opinion.


----------



## purpledahlia

The OP was only sharing her opinion, For all we know she didnt even know about ERF! Cant blame her for posting a video, if she knew and wanted to spread awareness then im sure it would have had more links etc in it, But well from where im sitting it seems she stumbled across it and was shocked so shared it. I dont see why people dont like the way the thread was done, the OP did nothing wrong?


----------



## purpledahlia

And yes youre right a lot of it is personal opinion, But i think people in general need to stop and realise it is just that, personal opinions, And agree with that, rather than slamming '' different'' opinions, know what i mean?


----------



## OmarsMum

RJsMum said:


> nmwb78 said:
> 
> 
> This issue has been discussed several times. A freaky video is not informative, facts are. Many of us cant go for an extended rear facing carseat, & it's not about spending a bit more on a carseat, we all try our best to seek the best for our LOs. I couldnt watch the video.
> 
> We bought an ERF carseat but it didnt fit in the car & the weight limit was 13 kgs (this is the max we can get here). So we had to exchange it with Forward facing carseat. Omar is already 12 kgs. We went for the best available in the market that would last until he's 28 kgs. Using carseats is not forced here as long as the child is sitting in the back seat but we are not doing it because it's a RULE, we'r using a carseat because it's the right thing to do.
> 
> Adding worries to those who cant use a ERFing for any reason is very desturbing. It's the same like saying formula will poison your LOs, co-sleeping will kill them, early weaning will give them long term allergies & medical problems, using talc will cause cancer, not BFing will give moms cancer, etc.
> 
> We have a lot to worry about, & we dont need a video to add more worries to our lives
> 
> Have you watched this "freaky video"? It's full of facts and not so much of the freaky, in fairness.
> 
> ERF as far as I knew meant seats that go over the standard 13kg limit for RF. It's a shame that you're not able to get one due to your location, but you said yourself that you chose to even get a carseat for safety even though it isn't a rule there. No one is saying what you're doing is wrong.
> 
> Also, if you were able to see the video and read how the thread went you'd see it wasn't at all about how "bad" parents who don't do ERF are, but more to inform those who weren't aware of ERF and the additional safety it provides.Click to expand...

I was forced to go for Forward facing, this is why it's desturbing. The highest mortality rate in the UAE among children & adults is caused by car accidents. We have bad traffic & lots of bad drivers. I had to quit my job 4 years back because of driving, I was suffering from anxiety because of it! Until now I cant drive with Omar in the car. I sit in the back seat with Omar when we go out, I cant leave him alone there. This is why I couldnt watch the video. 

We only go out in the car in the evenings with Omar when there is no traffic when we can drive in a civil way. We avoid going out during weekends because of it. Sorry for the rant, but it's a big issue for me.


----------



## fifie123

Can someone please explain what the vido is about? I can't watch it, I have a forward facing carseat and now I'm worried, thanks x


----------



## Wobbles

Freaky :confused: The video came from a family who's grandchild was in a car accident and front facing in a car seat. Only a true story is shown and none of the pictures shown of the child is anything but reality (before and after). Actually it touched my heart how this brave little boy survived. Thats just my wee opinion though, nothing more.

I learn to drive next year and this topic interests me, what I decide to do is my choice like it is yours however that doesn't make the information invalid either way.

There have been some bad videos and information posted on BnB over time about this topic which we haven't agreed on when done in the wrong tone but this isn't one of them, this topic could have started with a bit of a view on the subject I agree, but it's not really the problem, either way it would have turned. Also the topic could have benefited more by all by further adding information not getting in a tizzy over it. Discussion or debate? I think some people get confused.

We all live within our means, just because a product is available out there and out of your budget that does not make you a bad parent and nobody has said so. IF you felt passionate about changing the safety caution you use then why not speak to family see if they can help you and your child, exchange a gift (like birthday)for a money card etc and explain why ...IF that's your choice - just a personal suggestion nothing meant by it.


----------



## twiggy56

nmwb78 said:


> This issue has been discussed several times. A freaky video is not informative, facts are. Many of us cant go for an extended rear facing carseat, & it's not about spending a bit more on a carseat, we all try our best to seek the best for our LOs. I couldnt watch the video.
> 
> We bought an ERF carseat but it didnt fit in the car & the weight limit was 13 kgs (this is the max we can get here). So we had to exchange it with Forward facing carseat. Omar is already 12 kgs. We went for the best available in the market that would last until he's 28 kgs. Using carseats is not forced here as long as the child is sitting in the back seat but we are not doing it because it's a RULE, we'r using a carseat because it's the right thing to do.
> 
> Adding worries to those who cant use a ERFing for any reason is very desturbing. It's the same like saying formula will poison your LOs, co-sleeping will kill them, early weaning will give them long term allergies & medical problems, using talc will cause cancer, not BFing will give moms cancer, etc.
> 
> We have a lot to worry about, & we dont need a video to add more worries to our lives


Do you actually think the post was created to 'worry' those not using ERF carseats?! When its titled VERY appropriately and sensitively, stating EXACTLY whats in it?! I think YOU have taken it that way...just because it makes YOU uncomfortable doesnt mean it does everyone else. If you are finding it disturbing thats a reflection on you and your choices. Not the OPs.

And calling it 'freaky'? I hope to god that it never happens to you and someone calls your baby 'freaky' :nope: Not very nice.


----------



## Heidi

purpledahlia said:


> The OP was only sharing her opinion, For all we know she didnt even know about ERF! Cant blame her for posting a video, if she knew and wanted to spread awareness then im sure it would have had more links etc in it, But well from where im sitting* it seems she stumbled across it and was shocked so shared it*. I dont see why people dont like the way the thread was done, the OP did nothing wrong?

Thats how i see it also, i bet the OP didnt know it would turrn into such a debate thread.


----------



## xemmax

NG09 said:


> Look, to save a lot more aggrovation, lets just make something clear. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no issue with the FF/ERF topic, infact I have learned a lot too from this thread, I just didn't like the way it was done. I did watch the video and found it freaky too. I suppose it all comes down to personal opinion.

no offense but it's all well and good being understanding now "to save a lot more aggrovation", but maybe that should have been considered earlier when you could have chosen to post an articulate reply explaining as you just did how you feel, rather than these dismissive, sharp comments in an immediate reply to the OP...



NG09 said:


> Fab, another scaremonger video, just what we all need. Thanks for that.




NG09 said:


> Sometimes people can be so thoughtless, beggers belief! :nope:

as i see it, it was comments such as those which turned the mood of the thread into what it became..


----------



## RJsMum

If anyone is interested (who hasn't checked there already), I have started another thread about being a bit proactive about the issue of the lack of availability in the UK and the high cost to consumers. It includes some information from other posters about different carseat rules/regs in the EU in general as well as some links to get in touch with local MPs.

It's not open for debate over what's better/right/wrong...just to discuss what those (who want to) can do about it.

https://www.babyandbump.com/baby-club/480626-wasnt-joking-whos-me.html
(The discussion is just about the lack of knowledge of the additional safety of ERF carseats in the UK, as well as the sparse availability and high cost, especially to single-income families and who we can contact to try to change this: local MPs, retailers, manufacturers, etc.)


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous now. This thread was going soo well a few hours ago, why is it turning into another debate? If you haven't watched the video, please refrain from labeling it because of what others have dabbed it. Watch it and decide for yourself.

The grandfather who made this video is clearly passionate about the subject and created awareness from a personal experience. I command him for it. And I'm glad I watched it because although I knew RF is the safest, I too learned something new from watching it.


----------



## Wobbles

RJsMum said:


> If anyone is interested (who hasn't checked there already), I have started another thread about being a bit proactive about the issue of the lack of availability in the UK and the high cost to consumers. It includes some information from other posters about different carseat rules/regs in the EU in general as well as some links to get in touch with local MPs.
> 
> It's not open for debate over what's better/right/wrong...just to discuss what those (who want to) can do about it.
> 
> https://www.babyandbump.com/baby-club/480626-wasnt-joking-whos-me.html

Good idea, I like! Could you add to you title (in brackets) what the discussion is about for others? x


----------



## Wobbles

If anyones interested I found the website for this little boy 'Joels Journey':
www.joelsjourney.org


----------



## CocoaOne

xbabybumpx said:


> CocoaOne said:
> 
> 
> I think part of the problem is the lack of stock of ERF in the UK
> 
> It's all very well saying 'order online', but quite often the information on the seat says it fits the car - when it doesn't. I've tried numerous seats (FF & ERF) in my car, all have said in the instructions that they fit, but they actually have 'buckle crunch' when they are fitted. Whilst this means that the seat fits in- there is a weak point which would possibly cause an issue in a crash. Buckle crunch is where the seat belt buckle clip comes up the side of the seat and bends slightly in order for the buckle (attached to the seatbelt) to click into place or just rests on the side of the seat.
> 
> It depends on how good your fitter is (Mothercare, Halfords etc) as to whether they A) know about it/notice it or B) tell you about it.
> 
> Dont know if this is possible or im talking out my backside(nothing new there) but im sure the seatbelts in my car,the back ones especially are shorter because its a bit of a tight squeeze securing the infant carrier in.Or maybe thats what there supposed to be like:shrug:Click to expand...


I think it's a problem with the seatbelts. Presumably car manufacturers have supplied car *seat* manufacturers with information about how long the belts are, and that's what the seat manufacturers base their information on? I can't see that seat manufacturers try their seat in every single model of car on the market? 

So sometimes the belts should be long enough for the carseat but they aren't, probably a tiny change in manufacturing or something. 

Eitherway - it's not safe if the seatbelt clip is resting against the side of the car seat. 
We bought a Recarro ERF seat which we then had to sell on eBay (& lost a lot of money!) because it didn't fit in the car safely, even though it should have done according to the Recarro info. My OH uses to fit car seats for a living - so it wasn't anything we were doing wrong.


----------



## purpledahlia

Wobbles said:


> If anyones interested I found the website for this little boy 'Joels Journey':
> www.joelsjourney.org

awww :cry: Hes so brave!


----------



## sophxx

ive not watched the video it would upset me to much

we went to ever shop to try find a rear facing seat and we couldnt get one to fit our car safely we had to have a specail one from bmw for my mums which was a fourtune and my car one was over £200 it was the best we could do to get a good quality seat that fitted our car as lo had out grown his baby one

there should be more of the rear facing car seats made if it really is safer for our los

as videos like these worry people but theres nothing that we can do about it x


----------



## hivechild

It's an unfortunate reality that there are actually a lot of parents who have no idea about ERF. It's not widely publicized, it's not a law or guideline that's promoted in general. Activists (like this little boy's grandfather) are doing what they can to spread the word, and it's important knowledge to be armed with when it comes to making the decision on car seats.

I know we all have budgets, and restraints, and limitations like the size of the cars we drive and the space available, but that will not change the simple fact that while using Forward Facing car seats provides increased safety for your infant and child, Extended Rear Facing seats provide 5 times more safety. 

I'm not sure that even improvements in seat design will ever drastically change that because the safety factors are related to the laws of physics and inertia, which are unchanging. It's highly probable that with continued research and design improvements that they'll be able to make Forward Facing car seats safer than they are now though, as they have made them safer than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

_Personally_, I was fortunate to have read a thread just after I got pregnant from a mum asking questions about an ERF car seat she was looking into buying for her son, which got me curious and off doing some research myself as to what this whole ERF business was about. It was a HUGE factor in deciding not to buy a tricked out fancy stroller/pram/buggy and travel system and going for something more economical knowing that when he grew out of his infant carrier, I would be buying him a car seat that was more expensive up front than a FF car seat.

If I hadn't seen that thread, I may not have looked into it as much as I did. I may have spent more money in other areas making it harder to afford and justify the expense, I may have just gone into Babies R Us or some other big chain store when looking for a car seat and tried a few out, and listened to the advice of whoever was helping me without ERF ever once coming into the picture.

I know people keep saying 'same old, same old' and that they're so sick of the same things, and I'm going to just keep on saying that to a lot of mothers and new forum members, this is a first time and invaluable information for them, and that makes it worth repeating.

As for the ERF thread which is enormously helpful, it's also posted in the Natural Parenting forum which a lot of people never venture into so it's easy enough to understand why it doesn't get seen.


----------



## bathbabe

i havnt read any further than the first page because i can imagine what it all says. This video ISNT to scare people, its to raise awareness. THANKYOU OP FOR RAISING AWARENESS TO THIS ISSUE! :thumbup: unfair to jump on her for it x


----------



## NG09

xemmax said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Look, to save a lot more aggrovation, lets just make something clear. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no issue with the FF/ERF topic, infact I have learned a lot too from this thread, I just didn't like the way it was done. I did watch the video and found it freaky too. I suppose it all comes down to personal opinion.
> 
> no offense but it's all well and good being understanding now "to save a lot more aggrovation", but maybe that should have been considered earlier when you could have chosen to post an articulate reply explaining as you just did how you feel, rather than these dismissive, sharp comments in an immediate reply to the OP...
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Fab, another scaremonger video, just what we all need. Thanks for that.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> Sometimes people can be so thoughtless, beggers belief! :nope:Click to expand...
> 
> as i see it, it was comments such as those which turned the mood of the thread into what it became..Click to expand...


That's right, clearly it's my fault. Apologies. :dohh:

I do fail to see how you re posting my comments from page 1 is going to help the matter???


----------



## hopeandpray

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I had never heard of rear-facing until I saw it on here. Nobody I know has heard of it either. I'm not qualified yet but will be working in a job with lots of babies and pregnant ladies so I'll do my best to spread the word when I can :flower:


----------



## Bluetomato

Eala said:


> I can't find any information that says anything either way :dohh:
> 
> Essentially they are Britax Multi-Techs, and Isofix is Isofix... I guess the best way to know would be to contact Volvo UK and ask, as there just isn't anything on the website. I can imagine that they'd prefer that everyone bought a Volvo car to go with the seat :rofl:

I rang my local dealership and spoke to a very helpful chap in the parts department about the carseat. I told him the make of my dp's car (ford focus estate) and he found a similar volvo chassis and he said it should fit. Im going to a independant baby shop next weekend to see the fit of the britax multi tech, as im guessing if that fits ok then the volvo one should fit too. He also said if I ordered the car seat today then it would be ready to collect by tomorrow - thats service for you!


----------



## RJsMum

Just made a post on my own thread, but thought I'd share here as well...

I'm curious why they don't make ERF information available in Bounty and Emma's Diary packs? Surely these would be a good place to have them since you start getting them when you're pregnant (your first with your pregnancy notes, etc). This would be the ideal time to bring this issue to a mother's attention, no? Before she makes a decision on whether to splurge on a cute but pricey pram/travel system when she could get something more economical and save the extra for a seat that can last her child from 9 mos to 5 years like the Britax Multi-Tech or similar?


----------



## purpledahlia

Good point, Should probably include them to write too!


----------



## Kittee

New to this thread but just going to chime in.

The costs in the US to ERF can be as low as $39.99 USD. I only paid 29.99 because I caught it on sale. https://www.walmart.com/search/sear...ar+seat&ic=48_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0

So I really can't see how "cost" can be a factor, unless you are talking about the purchase price of a car to fit the car seat. Cars here are bigger than over the pond so I don't know about what type of car you would need but if you put the seat in the center seat you get more wiggle room for the carseat.

I hope that helps people choose to ERF longer. It really is for the best.


----------



## Hayley90

Will come back later on, but i dont think this is scaremongering. For those who FF, why would this offend you? If you made the right decision for your family, then STICK BY IT and dont get offended when someone else does it differently for their own reasons. 

I dont get offended when people who (FOR EXAMPLE) breastfeed talk about their amazing feeding experiences, because i made the right choice for me to formula feed. 

I dont get offended when i see kids wearing disposable nappies, because MY CHOICE was right for me, and i know that regardless of any pro-con debate, video or link spam, my choice is still right for me, so i stand by it. Even if people say "ohh but you carry shitty nappies around all day" i say "yes i do" not "OH MY GOD YOUR SO OFFENSIVE TO ME!!"

:shrug: 

(to be continued!)


----------



## SKATERBUN

^ they didnt like the video just being posted hayley, there wasnt enough chance for the debate to get going it was just dissed on the first page and it spirled from there and became a them and us thing. 

Anyway, in reponse to Kitee above, everything in the States is cheaper for you guys , but not us sadly :( Gas (petrol), CD's, Computer games, you name it its all more expensive here

**EDIT aye just realised that Walmart is Asda over here :dohh: Think that ones already been discussed too (£25 car seats), but I'm probably going to get a brand I've heard of, Maxi Cosi, Britax etc


----------



## xemmax

NG09 said:


> That's right, clearly it's my fault. Apologies. :dohh:
> 
> I do fail to see how you re posting my comments from page 1 is going to help the matter???

it was to make the point that your comments from page 1 contributed to the mood change, and to let you know i think posts such as your most recent are much more helpful than the dismissive comments you made first. as i said, they contributed, so i'm not saying it's "all your fault", so no need to slap yourself in the head. :winkwink: surely there's no issue with me making reference to your comments from page 1 as surely they were well thought out and you stand by them? no?


----------



## CocoaOne

Hayley90 said:


> I'm not having a go at you or the OP, but if someone had posted a pro-BF video which stated that BF reduces the risk of diabetes, gastro issues etc, and was best for baby for a variety of reasons - a lot of people would post saying that they now feel bad because they didn't BF. Same thing IMO :shrug:


----------



## PepsiChic

how incredibly sad....im not even talking about the video.

all of you should be ashamed of yourselves in my opinion. 

theres people who dont want to read it or see it, but do just to flame the thread.

theres people who dont want to see it but have the common sense to have a REAL disccusion about the topic at hand. 

theres others who dont want to see or talk about it and thats fine.

why does it matter what EVERYONE ELSE is doing if your going to stick by YOUR own decision?

seriously ladies, this school ground bitching is doing my head in. i've come to like a lot of you that i see frequently on this forum. but why dont you all do some growing up, act your age instead of this childish bickering.

*its not that the threads being posted again and again that is the problem. its the lack of self control not to go and flame the thread when its a topic you dont care for or have already argued about previously. *

how are any new members suppose to get the facts and information and HELP from this thread with the nastiness going on? stick to facts, say "i use FF" or "i use RF" a simple reason why "i cant afford RF" "i dont like FF" and be done. go to the user control panel and unsubscribe. bingo done. 

I found the video informative. im saddened the family went through what they did and i see it happened in 2008, 2 years down the road it would be nice to find out how the little boy is doing?


----------



## Hayley90

CocoaOne said:


> Hayley90 said:
> 
> 
> I dont get offended when people who (FOR EXAMPLE) breastfeed talk about their amazing feeding experiences, because i made the right choice for me to formula feed.
> 
> (to be continued!)
> 
> I'm not having a go at you or the OP, but if someone had posted a pro-BF video which stated that BF reduces the risk of diabetes, gastro issues etc, and was best for baby for a variety of reasons - a lot of people would post saying that they now feel bad because they didn't BF. Same thing IMO :shrug:Click to expand...

but THAT is what im referring to - if they made the right decision for them why feel bad?? Yeah the facts are there but if you chose not to do it for one reason or another, the reasons why people SHOULD do it, shouldnt bother you? - as your choices work better for you.

I dont get offended with BFers talk about the hundreds of benefits., Because i know them and i still chose otherwise. 
I know that there are "easy" alternatives to cloth nappies, but i chose otherwise. Doesnt offend me when people tell me anything different to what im alerady doing, dont get why everyone gets so heat up about things.

ALso just to add - i reaslise there are people who fall into the "i wasnt able to" cateogry - which is fine. I dont know if we can fit an ERF seat in our car, so there would be some guilt there, but this wouldn't make me feel bad - id get on with it.


----------



## Kalah

I'm not going to read 27 pages of arguing so my reply only has to do with the video itself. Thanks for posting that video, I really hope things like this can get more people to do ERF. I never knew anything about it until I came to this site, it was one of the first posts I saw. I would have just changed to FF as soon as LO outgrew her seat but now that I know ERF seats exist I'll be getting one and she'll be in it until she doesn't fit anymore even if she's older than 4. 
I hope threads like this continue to pop up so new members can see them and have the chance to learn about ERF, a lot of people are like me and don't even know it's an option.


----------



## Kittee

SKATERBUN said:


> ^ they didnt like the video just being posted hayley, there wasnt enough chance for the debate to get going it was just dissed on the first page and it spirled from there and became a them and us thing.
> 
> Anyway, in reponse to Kitee above, everything in the States is cheaper for you guys , but not us sadly :( Gas (petrol), CD's, Computer games, you name it its all more expensive here
> 
> **EDIT aye just realised that Walmart is Asda over here :dohh: Think that ones already been discussed too (£25 car seats), but I'm probably going to get a brand I've heard of, Maxi Cosi, Britax etc

Ah yes, we did the research too, and even though it is not a "name" brand carseat, we have carseat testing things over here, and it rated as high as Britax. :) So that's what sealed the decision for us. 

And yes, gas is much cheaper here. My boss is from England and I often hear him bemoan it. :)


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

I gave up at page 19. 

Here's my 2 cents. 

When I first started reading my initial reaction was "Argh, scaremongering" but on reflection it's more a case of "perhaps there would have been much better ways to go about this thread that wouldn't have got people's backs up so much." Nevertheless, the info is valid.

We don't ERF, I wanted to but with our car, it wasn't really a practical option, and we can't afford a new car. 

However, I read up on it, I know the stats. I know that in a head on collision RF is 5x safer, that can't be denied. These threads don't anger me or upset me. They're just raising awareness of the facts. Just because I can't do it, it doesn't mean other people shouldn't know about it or do it. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have even heard about it, I just think there are nicer ways to present the information than the video shown here. 

I learnt about 5 months ago that on here you can choose to be offended by things, or you can not. I had massive BF issues and after flying off the handle once in a thread I realised that it was MY problem and MY guilt that was causing me to read things in a way they were never intended. This is the same type of thing. ERF is safer. Simples. I can't do it. Also simples. There's no need to get defensive.


----------



## RJsMum

PepsiChic said:


> how incredibly sad....im not even talking about the video.
> 
> all of you should be ashamed of yourselves in my opinion.
> 
> theres people who dont want to read it or see it, but do just to flame the thread.
> 
> theres people who dont want to see it but have the common sense to have a REAL disccusion about the topic at hand.
> 
> theres others who dont want to see or talk about it and thats fine.
> 
> why does it matter what EVERYONE ELSE is doing if your going to stick by YOUR own decision?
> 
> seriously ladies, this school ground bitching is doing my head in. i've come to like a lot of you that i see frequently on this forum. but why dont you all do some growing up, act your age instead of this childish bickering.
> 
> its not that the threads being posted again and again that is the problem. its the lack of self control not to go and flame the thread when its a topic you dont care for or have already argued about previously.
> 
> how are any new members suppose to get the facts and information and HELP from this thread with the nastiness going on? stick to facts, say "i use FF" or "i use RF" a simple reason why "i cant afford RF" "i dont like FF" and be done. go to the user control panel and unsubscribe. bingo done.
> 
> I found the video informative. im saddened the family went through what they did and i see it happened in 2008, 2 years down the road *it would be nice to find out how the little boy is doing?*

It has already been posted, but they do have a website. Seems like he's making progress. 

https://www.joelsjourney.org/


----------



## lanaross

I saw this video before, somebody has already posted it months ago and guess what I had no clue on FF vs RF and Isabella was outgrowing her original RF car seat. So had it not been for that video, I might have not even considered looking for the best option. Maybe somebody right now is reading this thread, watching this video and making a decision about a car seat. Not everything is about moms who have already made decisions one way or another.


----------



## Hayley90

Dream.A.Dream said:


> I gave up at page 19.
> 
> Here's my 2 cents.
> 
> When I first started reading my initial reaction was "Argh, scaremongering" but on reflection it's more a case of "perhaps there would have been much better ways to go about this thread that wouldn't have got people's backs up so much." Nevertheless, the info is valid.
> 
> We don't ERF, I wanted to but with our car, it wasn't really a practical option, and we can't afford a new car.
> 
> *However, I read up on it, I know the stats. I know that in a head on collision RF is 5x safer, that can't be denied. These threads don't anger me or upset me. They're just raising awareness of the facts. Just because I can't do it, it doesn't mean other people shouldn't know about it or do it. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have even heard about it, I just think there are nicer ways to present the information than the video shown here.
> 
> I learnt about 5 months ago that on here you can choose to be offended by things, or you can not. I had massive BF issues and after flying off the handle once in a thread I realised that it was MY problem and MY guilt that was causing me to read things in a way they were never intended. This is the same type of thing. ERF is safer. Simples. I can't do it. Also simples. There's no need to get defensive.*

This is exactly what i mean :flower: Perfect example - thankyou x


----------



## Tiff

I can't believe what people are willing to argue about. :nope: I understand its a stressful time of year with Christmas, tensions are running high and we're all wound tighter than clocksprings. 

Whether or not you choose to Forward Face, or Extended Rear Face is up to you. Someone putting facts up are just that - facts. There is no "I'm better than you" "you're doing it wrong" "you SHOULD be doing it this way" etc etc etc. 

Why is everything seen as a personal attack these days?


----------



## mommyof3co

I gave up reading the entire thread. I really don't understand how it's scare mongering. This is a TRUE video made by a grandfather who went through something horrible. He isn't trying to SCARE anyone, he's trying to inform them so they don't go through something as horrific as him and his family did. 

Either way there is tons of information, other videos too, sorry if this was posted somewhere in the thread already
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2DVfqFhseo

and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sssIsceKd6U


It isn't about guilting people and making them feel bad, it's about informing people. When we know better we do better.


----------



## RJsMum

It's a bit funny because if the posts going back and forth about people feeling like they're being accused of making the wrong/ or a bad choice about the carseat they chose, or those who started off the bat about this being an overdone topic were removed, you'd see a wealth of information that many people have posted that has opened their eyes to the subject -- something I think the OP could be proud that her thread started. It took a really positive turn for a while this afternoon, which was nice.


----------



## NG09

xemmax said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> That's right, clearly it's my fault. Apologies. :dohh:
> 
> I do fail to see how you re posting my comments from page 1 is going to help the matter???
> 
> it was to make the point that your comments from page 1 contributed to the mood change, and to let you know i think posts such as your most recent are much more helpful than the dismissive comments you made first. as i said, they contributed, so i'm not saying it's "all your fault", so no need to slap yourself in the head. :winkwink: surely there's no issue with me making reference to your comments from page 1 as surely they were well thought out and you stand by them? no?Click to expand...

Yes I agree that my recent posts have been much more helpful but I'm assuming you also have a 1st reaction to things, as most people normally do. In hindsight, should I have posted my 1st reaction? probably not, but it doesn't change the fact that's how I feel. I am entitled to my opinion, same as everyone else and have no intention of answering to you or anyone else for that matter for any post I make. As you can clearly see from the posts at the start I am not the only person who felt this way, I could have worded it better, I don't mind admiting that.


----------



## NG09

Dream.A.Dream said:


> I gave up at page 19.
> 
> Here's my 2 cents.
> 
> When I first started reading my initial reaction was "Argh, scaremongering" but on reflection it's more a case of "perhaps there would have been much better ways to go about this thread that wouldn't have got people's backs up so much." Nevertheless, the info is valid.
> We don't ERF, I wanted to but with our car, it wasn't really a practical option, and we can't afford a new car.
> 
> However, I read up on it, I know the stats. I know that in a head on collision RF is 5x safer, that can't be denied. These threads don't anger me or upset me. They're just raising awareness of the facts. Just because I can't do it, it doesn't mean other people shouldn't know about it or do it. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have even heard about it, I just think there are nicer ways to present the information than the video shown here.
> 
> I learnt about 5 months ago that on here you can choose to be offended by things, or you can not. I had massive BF issues and after flying off the handle once in a thread I realised that it was MY problem and MY guilt that was causing me to read things in a way they were never intended. This is the same type of thing. ERF is safer. Simples. I can't do it. Also simples. There's no need to get defensive.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly :thumbup:


----------



## PepsiChic

RJsMum said:


> It has already been posted, but they do have a website. Seems like he's making progress.
> 
> https://www.joelsjourney.org/

oh thats fantastic! i saw he has a video up from june this year of joel playing in his pool. hes doing so well.


----------



## polo_princess

Tbh i think those videos are pretty otudated and inaccurate given todays technology, but i hate this topic so im not even going to participate :lol:


----------



## dani_tinks

NG09 said:


> Dream.A.Dream said:
> 
> 
> I gave up at page 19.
> 
> Here's my 2 cents.
> 
> When I first started reading my initial reaction was "Argh, scaremongering" but on reflection it's more a case of "perhaps there would have been much better ways to go about this thread that wouldn't have got people's backs up so much." Nevertheless, the info is valid.
> We don't ERF, I wanted to but with our car, it wasn't really a practical option, and we can't afford a new car.
> 
> However, I read up on it, I know the stats. I know that in a head on collision RF is 5x safer, that can't be denied. These threads don't anger me or upset me. They're just raising awareness of the facts. Just because I can't do it, it doesn't mean other people shouldn't know about it or do it. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have even heard about it, I just think there are nicer ways to present the information than the video shown here.
> 
> I learnt about 5 months ago that on here you can choose to be offended by things, or you can not. I had massive BF issues and after flying off the handle once in a thread I realised that it was MY problem and MY guilt that was causing me to read things in a way they were never intended. This is the same type of thing. ERF is safer. Simples. I can't do it. Also simples. There's no need to get defensive.
> 
> Thank you. My thoughts exactly :thumbup:Click to expand...

and mine :) these threads normally get out of hand and do normally end up with others attacking each other. I guess some of us just thought we'd get in first. I think we can all agree that ERF is the safest option; and that we all feel for the poor boy and his family in the video that was posted.
I'm sorry if I snapped when I shouldn't of. Hormones I guess. :flower:


----------



## mommyof3co

polo_princess said:


> Tbh i think those videos are pretty otudated and inaccurate given todays technology, but i hate this topic so im not even going to participate :lol:

Can I ask what you mean by inaccurate? The only thing in them I can think that is 'outdated' is I believe they say 35lbs is the max limits of a RF car seat when in fact here in the US, where they were made, it's now 45lbs. But none of those recommendations have changed at all :thumbup:


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

RJsMum said:


> It's a bit funny because if the posts going back and forth about people feeling like they're being accused of making the wrong/ or a bad choice about the carseat they chose, or those who started off the bat about this being an overdone topic were removed, you'd see a wealth of information that many people have posted that has opened their eyes to the subject -- something I think the OP could be proud that her thread started. It took a really positive turn for a while this afternoon, which was nice.

:thumbup: Wanted to say the same thing. There are so many pages of back and forth bickering that people can't be bothered to read the entire thread and that is quite sad, because there are some very interesting and informative comments that stayed on topic slatted somewhere in the middle of the thread.


----------



## polo_princess

I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.

I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:


----------



## mommyof3co

polo_princess said:


> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:

Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.


----------



## Eve

I've read the first page and am shocked already by how ignorant some people truely are :nope: wow... get over yourself! 

Thank you so much for posting this video. I've been hearing a lot about ERF lately and this really summed up my questions. I will try and keep Kayleigh rear facing as long as possible. I mean, as a concerned and informed mother, I LIKE to know about ways I can help protect my children and this video really helps with that. 

Seriously people get over it. I'm so sick and tired of coming in here and seeing people who want to do nothing but bitch and complain. If you don't want to rear face your child, WHATEVER! If you can't, but feel strongly you should, maybe purchase another car? If you can't, well it doesn't mean I think it's worth my effin daughter to be killed of injured to save your damn feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Do you? Maybe I should hush hush that too!?!?!?! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I'm probably going to get into trouble for this post, and to the mods- I'm sorry but this needs to stop. The OP could have saved an infant/child's life today and by the first page alone... very damn sad of other mothers on here... :nope:


----------



## NG09

mommyof3co said:


> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...

Can I ask, why are FF seats sold if they are so dangerous and impose such a risk? Not looking for a row, just interested.


----------



## xbabybumpx

polo_princess said:


> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:

Not everyone has a brand spanking new car. My car is 7 years old. And if people can afford a brand new car then an ERF carseat isint going to break the bank


----------



## SKATERBUN

Lots of people cant afford new cars side impact bars etc etc they have old bangers! :p
The force of a severe crash, e.g hitting a tree will still make a LO's head fly forwards with such a force that could prove fatal if sitting forwards facing, its as accurate as it can be


----------



## mommyof3co

NG09 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> Can I ask, why are FF seats sold if they are so dangerous and impose such a risk? Not looking for a row, just interested.Click to expand...


Well I wouldn't say they are dangerous, just that there are much safer options. If you are using a FF car seat within the weight/age/height limits and it's installed and used properly you aren't endangering your child. They do have a higher risk of injury than a RF child in the same conditions BUT they aren't at immediate danger. Many places though actually don't use FF seats, like in Sweden they RF to 4-5yrs old them move straight to booster because they believe the a FF seat with a harness puts too much strain on the neck so they move straight from RF to a booster seat. I tend to believe their way of thinking BUT we do use our FF seats. I think it makes sense that the harness holding the body back and the head being thrown forward is more of a risk than the body being able to stay aligned when in a belt positioning booster so I don't harness my kids past when they are mature enough for a booster. But Hayden, 3yrs old, is currently FF in a harnessed seat because in our current car his seat only works in the middle position but with my other boys seats we can't have his there so he's FF now at 3yrs but was RF before that. When we get our van, hopefully in the next few months he will go back RF until at least 4. He's only 29lbs and his seat RF to 45lbs


----------



## Tiff

NG09 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> Can I ask, why are FF seats sold if they are so dangerous and impose such a risk? Not looking for a row, just interested.Click to expand...

Its all personal preference.

Some people have their children in sleepsacks because its touted that it reduces the risk of SIDS. Fair enough, and those who want to do it, do. Some people are fine with having a blanket in with their beds... again, fair enough. You chose what you want to do with your children. :flower:


----------



## NG09

Mum2J&Kx2 said:


> I've read the first page and am shocked already by how ignorant some people truely are :nope: wow... get over yourself!
> 
> Thank you so much for posting this video. I've been hearing a lot about ERF lately and this really summed up my questions. I will try and keep Kayleigh rear facing as long as possible. I mean, as a concerned and informed mother, I LIKE to know about ways I can help protect my children and this video really helps with that.
> 
> Seriously people get over it. I'm so sick and tired of coming in here and seeing people who want to do nothing but bitch and complain. If you don't want to rear face your child, WHATEVER! If you can't, but feel strongly you should, maybe purchase another car? If you can't, well it doesn't mean I think it's worth my effin daughter to be killed of injured to save your damn feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Do you? Maybe I should hush hush that too!?!?!?! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I know I'm probably going to get into trouble for this post, and to the mods- I'm sorry but this needs to stop. The OP could have saved an infant/child's life today and by the first page alone... very damn sad of other mothers on here... :nope:

:roll:


----------



## Eve

dani_tinks said:


> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!

Because my daughter is more important than someones feelings... isn't she??????????????? I didn't know all the facts until watching this video,in this thread today on bnb... so it's not uncalled for and saying that is just like saying my daughters life and safety isn't worth it......


----------



## xbabybumpx

NG09 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> Can I ask, why are FF seats sold if they are so dangerous and impose such a risk? Not looking for a row, just interested.Click to expand...

Thats exactly what my dh said to me when i said i wanted a rf carseat


----------



## NG09

Tiff said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> Can I ask, why are FF seats sold if they are so dangerous and impose such a risk? Not looking for a row, just interested.Click to expand...
> 
> Its all personal preference.
> 
> Some people have their children in sleepsacks because its touted that it reduces the risk of SIDS. Fair enough, and those who want to do it, do. Some people are fine with having a blanket in with their beds... again, fair enough. You chose what you want to do with your children. :flower:Click to expand...

I understand it's personal preference but what I mean is if there is a risk that a child could be internally decapitated in these seats then why are they allowed to be sold?? I don't understand.


----------



## Eve

NG09 said:


> Mum2J&Kx2 said:
> 
> 
> I've read the first page and am shocked already by how ignorant some people truely are :nope: wow... get over yourself!
> 
> Thank you so much for posting this video. I've been hearing a lot about ERF lately and this really summed up my questions. I will try and keep Kayleigh rear facing as long as possible. I mean, as a concerned and informed mother, I LIKE to know about ways I can help protect my children and this video really helps with that.
> 
> Seriously people get over it. I'm so sick and tired of coming in here and seeing people who want to do nothing but bitch and complain. If you don't want to rear face your child, WHATEVER! If you can't, but feel strongly you should, maybe purchase another car? If you can't, well it doesn't mean I think it's worth my effin daughter to be killed of injured to save your damn feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Do you? Maybe I should hush hush that too!?!?!?! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I know I'm probably going to get into trouble for this post, and to the mods- I'm sorry but this needs to stop. The OP could have saved an infant/child's life today and by the first page alone... very damn sad of other mothers on here... :nope:
> 
> :roll:Click to expand...

Yup, whatever... I didnt know all the facts and I would rather see a few people pissed off than have a baby injured because someone (like me) didn't know... You don't feel that way? :wacko:


----------



## Tiff

I could be TOTALLY wrong... but I thought that there was a glaring statistic when it came to Sweeden and imposing that manditory rear facing until 4 years old law?

I could have sworn I read that once they made it law, the infant mortality rates in car accidents dropped by like 75% or something like that? I want to say it was similar to the findings when they started researching laying a baby on its back to sleep instead of side or tummy. Same thing - massive reduction in occurances of SIDS.

:shrug: 

PLEASE take what I say with a few grains of salt. I'm pressed for time so I can't go off and try and find the link where I saw that. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong too... I hate giving wrong information. :flower:


----------



## twiggy56

NG09 said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> Can I ask, why are FF seats sold if they are so dangerous and impose such a risk? Not looking for a row, just interested.Click to expand...

Tests for UK car seats to be passed through 'regulations' are at 30mph. Any higher speed than this and the damage is considerable compared to an ERF carseat. So yes, the seats in the UK might pass the 'standards' but those standards are only 30mph. And in a high speed crash you want a safer carseat. And at those speeds, you are safer ERF. Fact. 

Sweden is a good example. They are light years ahead of us in carseat safety. And test at 50 mph and above.


----------



## mommyof3co

Tiff said:


> I could be TOTALLY wrong... but I thought that there was a glaring statistic when it came to Sweeden and imposing that manditory rear facing until 4 years old law?
> 
> I could have sworn I read that once they made it law, the infant mortality rates in car accidents dropped by like 75% or something like that? I want to say it was similar to the findings when they started researching laying a baby on its back to sleep instead of side or tummy. Same thing - massive reduction in occurances of SIDS.
> 
> :shrug:
> 
> PLEASE take what I say with a few grains of salt. I'm pressed for time so I can't go off and try and find the link where I saw that. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong too... I hate giving wrong information. :flower:


I've heard that there have been no preventable deaths in the past couple years in kids RF age in Sweden. A few kids have died but it's been an accident that was so severe it wouldn't have mattered at all if they were FF or RF


----------



## Lover

Thanks for posting the video nervousgal! I never realized you could get rear facing car seats for children up to 4 years. I'm only 17 weeks pregnant but I'm going to do a lot more research about ERF when the time comes. I'm glad the little boy in the video is doing well x


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

Mum2J&Kx2 said:


> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!
> 
> Because my daughter is more important than someones feelings... isn't she??????????????? I didn't know all the facts until watching this video,in this thread today on bnb... so it's not uncalled for and saying that is just like saying my daughters life and safety isn't worth it......Click to expand...


Please try checking the last few pages before you come steaming in, things were actually being discussed in a mature manner and informative links and info being shared, which is what this thread was about. Not to mention that the poster you quoted has since apologised for that reponse.

Coming in all guns blazing like the 2 posts you've made will just get people defensive again and kick things off again and that helps nobody, least of all those trying to share the information you so want to read.


----------



## polo_princess

mommyof3co said:


> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...


See in my opinion it does .. a modern car will absorb the impact through the crash member and send the force along the A pillar, thus causing minimal impact and force on the passenger compartment, thus deflecting impact away from the child sat inside the passenger compartment, be it ERF or FF ....

I dont deny there are benefeits to ERF but i 110% believe that given the huge advances in todays technology that there really isnt much difference if you were to compare two like for like vehicles


----------



## NG09

Mum2J&Kx2 said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2J&Kx2 said:
> 
> 
> I've read the first page and am shocked already by how ignorant some people truely are :nope: wow... get over yourself!
> 
> Thank you so much for posting this video. I've been hearing a lot about ERF lately and this really summed up my questions. I will try and keep Kayleigh rear facing as long as possible. I mean, as a concerned and informed mother, I LIKE to know about ways I can help protect my children and this video really helps with that.
> 
> Seriously people get over it. I'm so sick and tired of coming in here and seeing people who want to do nothing but bitch and complain. If you don't want to rear face your child, WHATEVER! If you can't, but feel strongly you should, maybe purchase another car? If you can't, well it doesn't mean I think it's worth my effin daughter to be killed of injured to save your damn feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Do you? Maybe I should hush hush that too!?!?!?! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I know I'm probably going to get into trouble for this post, and to the mods- I'm sorry but this needs to stop. The OP could have saved an infant/child's life today and by the first page alone... very damn sad of other mothers on here... :nope:
> 
> :roll:Click to expand...
> 
> Yup, whatever... I didnt know all the facts and I would rather see a few people pissed off than have a baby injured because someone (like me) didn't know... You don't feel that way? :wacko:Click to expand...


Ok, so how can I put this nicely... Take my posts on page 1 for instance, some people have read them, have they thought 'maybe she doesn't disagree with the content, but she does disagree with how it has been put forward', no, they see someone being negative, shooting down OP straight off all because of how I worded it, badly. Same goes for your post, people aren't going to get your point as you have clearly typed it in an ' OMG, I can't believe what I'm reading, I'm so pissed off, are these people nuts' type mood. I'm sure you don't intend to come off a a rude person, but you do, and that's how your post reads, I didn't pay attention to the comment as the bad attitude got to me 1st.


----------



## Eve

Well I'm sick and tired of people bashing people, being offended over every little freaking thing. I didn't say anything to you personally and I didn't expect to get an eye roll from you, unless you were one of the people completely going off because they didn't like the post, thinking it was informative, I got pissed off... it's about a child's safety. If someone feels offended, don't read. It's sad that people can't just get over it for once. Yes I typed in that mood, because that's how disgusted I am with some of the responses!!!!!


----------



## NG09

I didn't like the initial post, I didn't like how it was done and yes I was one of those people. Do I find the content informative.. yes, I do actually but I don't need an ear bashing from you about it. Shall we just let this drop now and get on with the topic in hand?


----------



## Eve

Was the first post changed or something? I don't see how anyone could be upset by it. Is the OP someone like others I know on here constantly looking to cause fights, then sits and thanks everyone else for their rude comments in aggreeance (sp?) but doesn't say much on their own? I didn't see any reason for someone to be upset by it. I find it very informative and it might have just saved one life (which to me... is worth it in itself) what do you find so bad about it, or like I said was it changed?


----------



## NG09

I just personally don't like the way the video was put on with a one liner and there has been no participation from the OP since, I don't personally like the content of the video. I just strikes me to be similar to a few other threads of late. You're right, if it saves a life then it's worthwhile. End of.


----------



## purpledahlia

Lets not assume why the OP posted the video untill she has had a chance to come on and catch up and post. Shes in canada and i believe its morning there, has she been online? Gie her time. Like i said a few pages back it seems to me she just found the video and wanted to share it, i dont think it was malicious.


----------



## redpoppy

purpledahlia said:


> Lets not assume why the OP posted the video untill she has had a chance to come on and catch up and post. Shes in canada and i believe its morning there, has she been online? Gie her time. Like i said a few pages back it seems to me she just found the video and wanted to share it, i dont think it was malicious.

Haha. Sorry but that cracked me up. All this commotion and the OP's been sleeping the whole time. :rofl:


----------



## Lu28

redpoppy said:


> purpledahlia said:
> 
> 
> Lets not assume why the OP posted the video untill she has had a chance to come on and catch up and post. Shes in canada and i believe its morning there, has she been online? Gie her time. Like i said a few pages back it seems to me she just found the video and wanted to share it, i dont think it was malicious.
> 
> Haha. Sorry but that cracked me up. All this commotion and the OP's been sleeping the whole time. :rofl:Click to expand...

:haha:


----------



## Vickie

just to clear up something:

OP has not viewed the thread since the early hours of the morning my time (3 minutes after it was posted). I'm not sure what part of Canada she is in, it's afternoon here but people do have lives, jobs etc. so she may not have had a chance to come back to it. Probably doesn't even have a clue the way this thread's gone.

Let's stop nitpicking at one anothers posts and get this back on topic please.


----------



## purpledahlia

Poor girls got 30 pages to catch up on!


----------



## bloodbinds

:holly:


----------



## kirmal12

polo_princess said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See in my opinion it does .. a modern car will absorb the impact through the crash member and send the force along the A pillar, thus causing minimal impact and force on the passenger compartment, thus deflecting impact away from the child sat inside the passenger compartment, be it ERF or FF ....
> 
> I dont deny there are benefeits to ERF but i 110% believe that given the huge advances in todays technology that there really isnt much difference if you were to compare two like for like vehiclesClick to expand...

OT for a sec, I think that's why we have so many twats on the road because they think there car is built like a tank and will save their lives just because they have a new "safe" car.


----------



## mommyof3co

polo_princess said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See in my opinion it does .. a modern car will absorb the impact through the crash member and send the force along the A pillar, thus causing minimal impact and force on the passenger compartment, thus deflecting impact away from the child sat inside the passenger compartment, be it ERF or FF ....
> 
> I dont deny there are benefeits to ERF but i 110% believe that given the huge advances in todays technology that there really isnt much difference if you were to compare two like for like vehiclesClick to expand...


Somehow I missed your reply until someone else quoted it lol

I do get what your saying but either way if you crash into something your car is going to have to come to a stop, the passengers are going to be thrown forward. So while yeah some of it may be absorbed a small toddler that force is still a lot, it might be a lot better for an adult. It would be interesting to see tests on it. But with what we know now and what has been proven even with today's cars and car seats RF is still 500% safer if you have the same car, same crash, same child just RF vs FF


----------



## purpledahlia

The thing is the majority of people these days dont and wont be able to get, new safer cars, I know for me my old VW polo isnt the best car, im sure its waay down on the safety scale compared to new cars, which is why for me its important to have a RF seat to increase the safety even more because i know the car isnt the best.


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

Not challenging, just genuinely curious, are there stats for other types of crashes? or just head on? xx


----------



## venusrockstar

I'm not about to jump in on all the arguments, but was just going to say that we plan on leaving our LO rear facing for as long as we possibly can since all the stats here in Canada tell us it's far safer that way.


----------



## Kalah

polo_princess said:


> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See in my opinion it does .. a modern car will absorb the impact through the crash member and send the force along the A pillar, thus causing minimal impact and force on the passenger compartment, thus deflecting impact away from the child sat inside the passenger compartment, be it ERF or FF ....
> 
> I dont deny there are benefeits to ERF but i 110% believe that given the huge advances in todays technology that there really isnt much difference if you were to compare two like for like vehiclesClick to expand...

I don't want to sound rude here, but I don't think you understand the physics behind a crash. Nothing on a car will change the g-force created when you stop. If you're going 60mph and you stop suddenly it will subject you to the same g-force no matter what ncap safety rating your car has. The difference in safety rating has to do with the way the car absorbs the impact and crumples, it has nothing to do with the g-force anyone inside is subjected to. 

Correct me if I'm wrong?


----------



## purpledahlia

Dream.A.Dream said:


> Not challenging, just genuinely curious, are there stats for other types of crashes? or just head on? xx

As far as im aware and have seen, the seats tested for FF in UK are only tested head on at 30mph. Not faster, not side on, etc. ERF ones from sweden are tested at 50mph .. and i *think* side on, but dont hold me to it.. i cant remember exactly!


----------



## mommyof3co

Dream.A.Dream said:


> Not challenging, just genuinely curious, are there stats for other types of crashes? or just head on? xx

This might give some information
https://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html


Statistics. According to Crashtest.Com, frontal and frontal offset crashes combine for about 72% of severe crashes. Side impacts are about 24%. Rear and rear offset crashes only account for about 4%. The NHTSA FARS database shows similar numbers. The odds of being in a frontal crash with a fatality or very serious injury are many times greater than being in a severe rear-end crash. Rear-enders are more common at lower speeds, though most injuries in these crashes are not as severe; typically whiplash injuries to adults, especially passengers lacking proper head restraint

There is more info on that site too about different types of crashes and the forces


----------



## Eve

I think when something gets to the point and shows the same accident with both seats, it's more less made fair... but thats me. 

Yes, I think if it saves just one baby from death or serious injury it's worth it for sure.


----------



## NeyNey

I was the first to post to this, and never in my life did I think I'd wake up to some of the replies I have found in here. How absolutely ridiculous. The thread was warned as being upsetting in the title, so why on earth come in and then throw accusations at the OP as being a scare tactic or thoughtless. It's unfortunate that people see it as their duty to thrown down pointless and hurtful comments to others on this board, I see it everyday yet rarely say anything because well "It's not worth the fight" but it's happening far more in recent times and I find it absolutely childish and disgusting......This is not a school playground with adolescents, we are adults and mothers....Lets start acting like it. As my mother told me "If you don't like something then leave it alone"

Perhaps it's just me, but any information - good or bad that can highlight safey for my child will be taken into consideration. I'm an adult, and a mother and thankfully there are still some people here who can act like those too.


----------



## NG09

^^^ has already been said about 20 pages ago hun :flow:


----------



## NeyNey

:winkwink: just the joys of living in a time zone in a land far far away


----------



## NG09

NeyNey said:


> :winkwink: just the joys of living in a time zone in a land far far away

Sorry, you're in Australia, duh!!! :blush:


----------



## nightkd

This is why we bought an extended rear facing carseat :)

I don't think it's scaremongering...isn't scaremongering scaring people over nothing?? This is perhaps a little disturbing to watch, but that's exactly why it is trying to educate people to RF their children for as long as they possibly can.

Anyway, I haven't read through the whole conversation so I'm not going to contribute more. I just think although it is an upsetting video, it's very informative for those who have the option to extended rear-face.

I posted to FB (again - seen this one before).


----------



## RJsMum

Kalah said:


> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mommyof3co said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polo_princess said:
> 
> 
> I mean innacurate given build quailty of vehicles from 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago etc etc, it all plays a massive part, also the differences between US and UK/European manufacturing design and quality.
> 
> I would be massively interested to see real footage of an ERF/FF crash test on a brand new 5 star Ncap rated vehicle ... massively interested :thumbup:
> 
> Absolutely cars are safer BUT the car doesn't change the impact on the child. If a baby is turned FF, no matter what the car, could be the absolute safest in the world, if they get a crash their head is still going to be thrown forward straining their neck and possibly internally decapitating them. The type of car surrounding them isn't going to change what happens in their car seat in the event of a crash. I mean the car might not crumple the same or there might be more air bags to help with protection, but those things wont' help with the forces on their neck.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See in my opinion it does .. a modern car will absorb the impact through the crash member and send the force along the A pillar, thus causing minimal impact and force on the passenger compartment, thus deflecting impact away from the child sat inside the passenger compartment, be it ERF or FF ....
> 
> I dont deny there are benefeits to ERF but i 110% believe that given the huge advances in todays technology that there really isnt much difference if you were to compare two like for like vehiclesClick to expand...
> 
> I don't want to sound rude here, but I don't think you understand the physics behind a crash. *Nothing on a car will change the g-force created when you stop*. If you're going 60mph and you stop suddenly it will subject you to the same g-force no matter what ncap safety rating your car has. The difference in safety rating has to do with the way the car absorbs the impact and crumples, it has nothing to do with the g-force anyone inside is subjected to.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong?Click to expand...

Excellent point, Kalah. 

Newer technology may increase the safety of the passenger cabin and allow the car to crumple less, but regardless, as Kalah has pointed out, the force cannot be lessened, only the impact damage.


----------



## Drazic<3

Thanks OP - I had genuinely never heard of this debate before and I am going to really look into ERF'ing now. Why oh why does it have to turn into a slagging match every single time? (and with the same faces) Why are some topics off the cards because some insist on being offended by every single comment? It goes back to that same thing again, just because you do something, it doesn't mean a post saying different is about you. :rolleyes:


----------



## leelee

I'm not trying to be smart here, but if the ERF Volvo seat is being sold for £157 then that is just the equivalent of 2 months child benefit? Not too much to pay if your child is in the car everyday.

We all know that our babies are going to grow out of their car seat so we could ask for the ERF seat as Xmas present for LO, or some money towards it from relatives or save a bit every week towards it.


----------



## RJsMum

Hubby actually directed me to this vid, and to save anyone the trouble about 5 1/2 minutes in they clarify that regardless of the safety rating of the vehicle, internal organs cannot handle the impact in a high-speed crash because you're still going from super fast to stop in a split second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

It's a video of a smart car (4 or 5 star) vs a Corsa (2 or 3 star) which is what we have at the moment. And just to clarify, there are no people or crash test dummies, it's simply a couple of radio-controlled real cars in crashes on their own to show the damage done to the vehicle.


----------



## purple_kiwi

not bothering to read entire thread here... But.. in Canada they are introducing a new law starting january 2011 that carseats have to be made bigger to suit rear facing longer because its been shown kids are getting bigger faster and they need to be rear facing longer. but thanks op for the post. hopefully some people will take this seriously and relize forward facing can be a serious danger.


----------



## louandivy

After this thread I have decided to ask for an ERF seat for Xmas :thumbup: We're not in a car much but I'd still rather not take the risk when it comes to car safety! So thank you OP for bringing this to my attention :)


----------



## Flutterby1982

Wow. This is a long thread. I actually started going on another baby forum where they don't argue for 40 pages lol....came back on here for a nosy and this was the first post I saw! 
Poor OP, I really think she was genuinely trying to pass on some good info and I for one have never seen a thread on here about rear facing/forward facing carseats and it has actually been really informative for me as I was just about to buy a new carseat! So there :p
xx


----------



## SKATERBUN

^ somewhere where they *dont* argue??! I thought that was meant to be here


----------



## leelee

louandivy said:


> After this thread I have decided to ask for an ERF seat for Xmas :thumbup: We're not in a car much but I'd still rather not take the risk when it comes to car safety! So thank you OP for bringing this to my attention :)

Ditto. We don't own a car but I will be buying the Volvo one (if appropriate for the type of car) for my Mums car.


----------



## Nic1107

I'm sorry if I'm asking a stupid question- or one that's been asked before (can't read the whole thread as Carmen keeps trying to take down the Christmas tree)- but what are the stats for a rear-collision accident with a RF seat? As in, if you're the one rear-ended at high speed, is the RF seat still safer? Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about cars or physics :blush:


----------



## mommyof3co

Nic1107 said:


> I'm sorry if I'm asking a stupid question- or one that's been asked before (can't read the whole thread as Carmen keeps trying to take down the Christmas tree)- but what are the stats for a rear-collision accident with a RF seat? As in, if you're the one rear-ended at high speed, is the RF seat still safer? Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about cars or physics :blush:

Rear ended collisions are not nearly as common and almost always happen at lower speeds. I don't have exact stats but it's still safer to be RF :)


----------



## ~RedLily~

mommyof3co said:


> Nic1107 said:
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if I'm asking a stupid question- or one that's been asked before (can't read the whole thread as Carmen keeps trying to take down the Christmas tree)- but what are the stats for a rear-collision accident with a RF seat? As in, if you're the one rear-ended at high speed, is the RF seat still safer? Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about cars or physics :blush:
> 
> Rear ended collisions are not nearly as common and almost always happen at lower speeds. I don't have exact stats but it's still safer to be RF :)Click to expand...

I do plan to get a RF seat and this is something I was worrying about because I was in a crash where we had stopped and a car crashed into the back of us going 60mph, in that situation would RF still be safer?


----------



## purpledahlia

RedLily - DEFINATELY!


----------



## Blue_bumpkin

Thanks for this thread - i know what im asking for for christmas! :flower: x


----------



## Eve

I think I just read in here... or some other thread that 75% are frontal impact accidents?


----------



## Flutterby1982

SKATERBUN said:


> ^ somewhere where they *dont* argue??! I thought that was meant to be here


Yeah so did I! well, I can't say they NEVER argue cos I'm not on there 24 hrs a day but I know if I come on here there is always at least one heated debate in the first couple of pages. I do love this site though, it just seems that quite a few members can't wait to make a remark that they know is guna set off an arguement. Oh well, makes it more entertaining I s'pose :haha:


----------



## Vici

I am very sorry if any of my posts in this thread seemed argumentative or uneccessary. I wasn't trying to get away from thd facts about ERF in the slightest. Perhaps my words didn't come out right but i'm having a rough time atm - no excuse i know :-(


----------



## tu123

Does anyone have a seat that has fit into a Ford Focus please?

Thank you for the information-my OH and i had no idea, despite researching our infant seat extensively.


----------



## xbabybumpx

If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x


----------



## xbabybumpx

I think i might just opt for the rear facing one that goes up to 15 months.They do say it's best to keep them rear faced until at least one. We are moving in febuary so really cant afford £250 and the hassle of buying it online and sending it back incase it doesint fit etc x


----------



## dani_tinks

Mum2J&Kx2 said:


> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!
> 
> Because my daughter is more important than someones feelings... isn't she??????????????? I didn't know all the facts until watching this video,in this thread today on bnb... so it's not uncalled for and saying that is just like saying my daughters life and safety isn't worth it......Click to expand...

What? I'm sorry but I did apologize for my first initial reaction. I've never said a childs life isn't worth it, what are you talking about? I'm not against ERF I was just worried this was going to turn into another ''one of those threads'' and I guess I typed before thinking that it could turn into a very good informative one. As I said, I did apologize for getting a bit agro. I don't think there's any need to quote my first post since the thread has since moved on. :shrug:


----------



## xbabybumpx

dani_tinks said:


> Mum2J&Kx2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!
> 
> Because my daughter is more important than someones feelings... isn't she??????????????? I didn't know all the facts until watching this video,in this thread today on bnb... so it's not uncalled for and saying that is just like saying my daughters life and safety isn't worth it......Click to expand...
> 
> What? I'm sorry but I did apologize for my first initial reaction. I've never said a childs life isn't worth it, what are you talking about? I'm not against ERF I was just worried this was going to turn into another ''one of those threads'' and I guess I typed before thinking that it could turn into a very good informative one. As I said, I did apologize for getting a bit agro. I don't think there's any need to quote my first post since the thread has since moved on. :shrug:Click to expand...

I must admit she did come in all guns blazing without reading the entire thread. I think we are all guilty of that lol:flower:


----------



## purpledahlia

xbabybumpx said:


> If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x

Not really, If your going fast down a motorway and someone hits into the back of you, your still going to go FORWARD on impact.. and it wouldnt be your fault if that car was speeding / skidded and then thrust your car into the back of someone elses car, where again you will be thrown forward as thats the direction of travel your going. 

The rear end collisions you could have, for the RF seat to be the same as a FF one you'd need to be reversing, now who reverses at more than a few mph? Therefore a RF seat is much safer in all cases. 

*I think* :lol:


----------



## Janiepops

I haven't read through the whole thread as I started to get a bit bored tbh.....

So I'll just say this quickly. We can't fit an ERF seat in our car, so we decided to go down the next route and got one of these: https://www.kiddy.de/en/childrens-car-seats/9months-12years/kiddy-guardian-pro.html It has an impact bar instead of a 5 point harness, so the body rolls around it if there's an impact. It's £230 but lasts until they're 12, so a pretty good investment :thumbup:

I dunno if anyone else has mentioned this kind of seat, sorry if they already have!


----------



## Seraphim

Vici said:


> I am very sorry if any of my posts in this thread seemed argumentative or uneccessary. I wasn't trying to get away from thd facts about ERF in the slightest. Perhaps my words didn't come out right but i'm having a rough time atm - no excuse i know :-(

:hugs:


----------



## purpledahlia

Janiepops said:


> I haven't read through the whole thread as I started to get a bit bored tbh.....
> 
> So I'll just say this quickly. We can't fit an ERF seat in our car, so we decided to go down the next route and got one of these: https://www.kiddy.de/en/childrens-car-seats/9months-12years/kiddy-guardian-pro.html It has an impact bar instead of a 5 point harness, so the body rolls around it if there's an impact. It's £230 but lasts until they're 12, so a pretty good investment :thumbup:
> 
> I dunno if anyone else has mentioned this kind of seat, sorry if they already have!

These seats are a good alternative if you cant fit ERF in your car and something im considering if i cant get a new seat when she outgrows the first class plus, They make so much sense, the 5-point harness although great, it does make more pressure on the neck whereas these make the body roll. :thumbup:


----------



## purpledahlia

Vici i dont think you said anything wrong? :shrug: x


----------



## xbabybumpx

Janiepops said:


> I haven't read through the whole thread as I started to get a bit bored tbh.....
> 
> So I'll just say this quickly. We can't fit an ERF seat in our car, so we decided to go down the next route and got one of these: https://www.kiddy.de/en/childrens-car-seats/9months-12years/kiddy-guardian-pro.html It has an impact bar instead of a 5 point harness, so the body rolls around it if there's an impact. It's £230 but lasts until they're 12, so a pretty good investment :thumbup:
> 
> I dunno if anyone else has mentioned this kind of seat, sorry if they already have!

Is it just the bar your paying for or the whole carseat? xox


----------



## Janiepops

xbabybumpx said:


> Janiepops said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read through the whole thread as I started to get a bit bored tbh.....
> 
> So I'll just say this quickly. We can't fit an ERF seat in our car, so we decided to go down the next route and got one of these: https://www.kiddy.de/en/childrens-car-seats/9months-12years/kiddy-guardian-pro.html It has an impact bar instead of a 5 point harness, so the body rolls around it if there's an impact. It's £230 but lasts until they're 12, so a pretty good investment :thumbup:
> 
> I dunno if anyone else has mentioned this kind of seat, sorry if they already have!
> 
> Is it just the bar your paying for or the whole carseat? xoxClick to expand...

Whole carseat. It converts into a booster seat as the child grows. Looks well comfy too lol x


----------



## xemmax

xbabybumpx said:


> If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x

not necessarily, what if someone veered into your lane on the road and you hit them? whoever is at fault, there would be the same outcome.


----------



## purpledahlia

Heres one of the bar kinds of seat - 

https://www.kiddicare.com/webapp/wc...displayA_65_10751_-1_14571_109831_10001_14568

The body rolls on collision so the neck isnt under the strain it would be FF in a 5 point harness


----------



## ttc_lolly

xbabybumpx said:


> If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x

As xemmax said not necessarily - you could be doing nothing wrong and a car coming the opposite direction could swerve into your way? Either way it makes no difference who's at fault! x


----------



## Eve

dani_tinks said:


> Mum2J&Kx2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!
> 
> Because my daughter is more important than someones feelings... isn't she??????????????? I didn't know all the facts until watching this video,in this thread today on bnb... so it's not uncalled for and saying that is just like saying my daughters life and safety isn't worth it......Click to expand...
> 
> What? I'm sorry but I did apologize for my first initial reaction. I've never said a childs life isn't worth it, what are you talking about? I'm not against ERF I was just worried this was going to turn into another ''one of those threads'' and I guess I typed before thinking that it could turn into a very good informative one. As I said, I did apologize for getting a bit agro. I don't think there's any need to quote my first post since the thread has since moved on. :shrug:Click to expand...

I quoted the first and second pages because that is as far as I wanted to go because I was so shocked at the way people were reacting to something as simple as child safety (OF ALL THINGS) and thought that we all, as mothers, would want to know the most up to date and right information on how to keep our little ones safe! I didn't see your apology or anything. I didn't say you felt her life wasn't important, but when someone says an informative life saving post is uncalled for, what should I feel?



xbabybumpx said:


> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2J&Kx2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> Why post such a sad horrific video when we all know there's Mums on here who use forward facing? We all know the risks and guidelines, we're not stupid. I think this thread is uncalled for and will yet again bring the ''I know better than you'' attitudes out.
> Give it a rest. We all do the best we can for our LOs.
> 
> p.s, sorry. But i'm getting really tired of this now!
> 
> Because my daughter is more important than someones feelings... isn't she??????????????? I didn't know all the facts until watching this video,in this thread today on bnb... so it's not uncalled for and saying that is just like saying my daughters life and safety isn't worth it......Click to expand...
> 
> What? I'm sorry but I did apologize for my first initial reaction. I've never said a childs life isn't worth it, what are you talking about? I'm not against ERF I was just worried this was going to turn into another ''one of those threads'' and I guess I typed before thinking that it could turn into a very good informative one. As I said, I did apologize for getting a bit agro. I don't think there's any need to quote my first post since the thread has since moved on. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> I must admit she did come in all guns blazing without reading the entire thread. I think we are all guilty of that lol:flower:Click to expand...

Yes, we all sure are for the most part. I don't normally do, and don't normally end up saying what I really think/feel but that first few pages seriously made me want to be sick! 



xemmax said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x
> 
> not necessarily, what if someone veered into your lane on the road and you hit them? whoever is at fault, there would be the same outcome.Click to expand...

:thumbup: doesn't matter whos fault etc... it's the child's life.


----------



## xbabybumpx

ttc_lolly said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x
> 
> As xemmax said not necessarily - you could be doing nothing wrong and a car coming the opposite direction could swerve into your way? Either way it makes no difference who's at fault! xClick to expand...

I never said it did matter whose fault it was. It was just a question,maybe a stupid one all the same. No need to be rude


----------



## Wriggley

im going to go make a cheese coleslaw sandwich does anyone else want one? :flower:


----------



## xbabybumpx

Wriggley said:


> im going to go make a cheese coleslaw sandwich does anyone else want one? :flower:

ewww no thanks xox: Do you want a coffee? :haha:xox


----------



## I_AM_LIVID

Phew.... I'm done reading the rest. Too many hormonal women on here.

I digress.

Thanks to anyone who posted relevant info on ERF. My babies are currently both ERF and I know it is the safest mode, but I thought after 12 months it was just as safe to FF. How wrong I was. OH was talking about buying the twins FF seats for their first birthday, but that's all going to change now.


----------



## twiggy56

Forgot to post this when peole were asking about fitting ERF seats into small cars...a lady asked about fitting it into a ford focus?

Anyway...he's a pic of a Britax Multi-Tech (and going to be very similar to the new cheaper Volvo one im told!) in a VW Golf.

PLENTY to leg room for front passenger and fits nicely into the back seat :thumbup:

It was emailed to me by the guy in Sweden at carseat.se where I purchased this exact seat from. It fits in our Fiat Bravo fine! I really do love this seat!
 



Attached Files:







Foot space in a VW Gold with the Muti-Tech.jpg
File size: 41.1 KB
Views: 29


----------



## Wriggley

xbabybumpx said:


> Wriggley said:
> 
> 
> im going to go make a cheese coleslaw sandwich does anyone else want one? :flower:
> 
> ewww no thanks xox: Do you want a coffee? :haha:xoxClick to expand...

haha no thankyou i have alcohol free shandy ummmm


----------



## Bex1p

Haven't read the whole thread......got bored after the first 3 pages of bitchiness.

Just wanted to thank the op for posting this as it had never crossed my mind before and it makes sense to me. 
I will try to keep Leo in an ERF seat for as long as possible and if I can't, then I can't........:shrug:


----------



## fairy1984

twiggy56 said:


> Forgot to post this when peole were asking about fitting ERF seats into small cars...a lady asked about fitting it into a ford focus?
> 
> Anyway...he's a pic of a Britax Multi-Tech (and going to be very similar to the new cheaper Volvo one im told!) in a VW Golf.
> 
> PLENTY to leg room for front passenger and fits nicely into the back seat :thumbup:
> 
> It was emailed to me by the guy in Sweden at carseat.se where I purchased this exact seat from. It fits in our Fiat Bravo fine! I really do love this seat!

i've just been doing research into this as we're keen on ERF, the volvo "version" is £150 + VAT! Bargain compared to the Britax (we got quoted £250) I want to be sure that its as safe as the Britax Multitech before we make the decision though?

Thanks for the pic, it wasnt me who asked but it could've been as i've been wondering the same thing. apparently it depends how much leg room the person in front needs as they do come out a bit more in the back seats.


----------



## Kittee

You know what gets me about this subject? And I'll go ahead and apologize in advance if this offends anyone, I am not intentionally pointing my finger at anyone and this is a generalization...

People who say one of these three things:

a.) I can't afford it.
b.) The law says it's ok to FF at 1 year.
c.) My child cries if I don't FF.


My response to those three reasons.

a. If you can't afford it, either because the seat itself is too expensive or the price of a car to fit the seat is too high, then what are you doing on the internet? Drop your internet service for a couple months, drop any other non-necessity, get a job, a second job, craft something to sell, sell some blood plasma, donate an egg, or whatever you need to do to make sure your child has what it needs to be as safe as possible. I know in the states at least and we are one of the least socialist countries out there, that there are organizations to help low income parents afford car seats. So I know there are resources out there, you just have to be willing to look for them and accept them.

b. The law? Really? We all know that regardless of where you live laws can be quite outdated and silly. The government is always behind the times in regards to the most current scientific data. Most the time the law only suggests the bare minimum. 

c.To me this is the worst reason of all to choose FF. I consider it a convenience move on the part of the parent. I understand some children are upset about riding in a carseat but turning them around so they won't cry to me is a mistake. I'd much rather a sad child than a dead one. Keep in mind it's only a short amount of time that you have to deal with this too. A 20 min ride some place really worth the risk? And yes crying can be a distraction on you as a driver, maybe wear ear plugs? (If that's legal of course.) Or just focus on the road? The baby will be fine crying for a few moments. 

Anyways- that's how I personally look at it. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but when I hear people arguing about how they cannot ERF, those are the 3 situations I see come up the most and my personal solutions to them.


----------



## Bartness

I honestly know of one person who does ERF, I thought she was a nutter to be honest. However after seeing this video and doing research on the matter, I do believe that ERF will be the safest and best option for Jaxon when he outgrows his carseat.

Thanks for posting that video, it really did open my eyes and make me look more into it.


----------



## Mummy2Asher

I've not read the thread but I'm really interested in erf, I put ash ff at 1 becuase that's what mothercare told me to when I bought it. And what I've seen everyone else do! Cost me 500ish I think. 
Can someone give me a link for where to buy erf seats?


----------



## Seraphim

Mummy2Asher said:


> I've not read the thread but I'm really interested in erf, I put ash ff at 1 becuase that's what mothercare told me to when I bought it. And what I've seen everyone else do! Cost me 500ish I think.
> Can someone give me a link for where to buy erf seats?

www.securatot.co.uk :flower:


----------



## kitabird

Kittee said:


> You know what gets me about this subject? And I'll go ahead and apologize in advance if this offends anyone, I am not intentionally pointing my finger at anyone and this is a generalization...
> 
> People who say one of these three things:
> 
> a.) I can't afford it.
> b.) The law says it's ok to FF at 1 year.
> c.) My child cries if I don't FF.
> 
> 
> My response to those three reasons.
> 
> *a. If you can't afford it, either because the seat itself is too expensive or the price of a car to fit the seat is too high, then what are you doing on the internet? Drop your internet service for a couple months, drop any other non-necessity, get a job, a second job, craft something to sell, sell some blood plasma, donate an egg, or whatever you need to do to make sure your child has what it needs to be as safe as possible. I know in the states at least and we are one of the least socialist countries out there, that there are organizations to help low income parents afford car seats. So I know there are resources out there, you just have to be willing to look for them and accept them.*
> 
> b. The law? Really? We all know that regardless of where you live laws can be quite outdated and silly. The government is always behind the times in regards to the most current scientific data. Most the time the law only suggests the bare minimum.
> 
> c.To me this is the worst reason of all to choose FF. I consider it a convenience move on the part of the parent. I understand some children are upset about riding in a carseat but turning them around so they won't cry to me is a mistake. I'd much rather a sad child than a dead one. Keep in mind it's only a short amount of time that you have to deal with this too. A 20 min ride some place really worth the risk? And yes crying can be a distraction on you as a driver, maybe wear ear plugs? (If that's legal of course.) Or just focus on the road? The baby will be fine crying for a few moments.
> 
> Anyways- that's how I personally look at it. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but when I hear people arguing about how they cannot ERF, those are the 3 situations I see come up the most and my personal solutions to them.

I get your point and I agree with some of what you've said BUT I think for a lot of people finding the money for a bigger car isn't an option. For instance, the cost of childcare pretty much swallows up any wage that I earn, plus it's not just buying the car, the tax, and petrol costs are higher for larger cars, so it's an ongoing expense. I'd like to ERF and I'll look into it, but it may be that I genuinely cannot afford to do it.


----------



## xbabybumpx

Kittee said:


> You know what gets me about this subject? And I'll go ahead and apologize in advance if this offends anyone, I am not intentionally pointing my finger at anyone and this is a generalization...
> 
> People who say one of these three things:
> 
> a.) I can't afford it.
> b.) The law says it's ok to FF at 1 year.
> c.) My child cries if I don't FF.
> 
> 
> My response to those three reasons.
> 
> a. If you can't afford it, either because the seat itself is too expensive or the price of a car to fit the seat is too high, then what are you doing on the internet? Drop your internet service for a couple months, drop any other non-necessity, get a job, a second job, craft something to sell, sell some blood plasma, donate an egg, or whatever you need to do to make sure your child has what it needs to be as safe as possible. I know in the states at least and we are one of the least socialist countries out there, that there are organizations to help low income parents afford car seats. So I know there are resources out there, you just have to be willing to look for them and accept them.
> 
> b. The law? Really? We all know that regardless of where you live laws can be quite outdated and silly. The government is always behind the times in regards to the most current scientific data. Most the time the law only suggests the bare minimum.
> 
> c.To me this is the worst reason of all to choose FF. I consider it a convenience move on the part of the parent. I understand some children are upset about riding in a carseat but turning them around so they won't cry to me is a mistake. I'd much rather a sad child than a dead one. Keep in mind it's only a short amount of time that you have to deal with this too. A 20 min ride some place really worth the risk? And yes crying can be a distraction on you as a driver, maybe wear ear plugs? (If that's legal of course.) Or just focus on the road? The baby will be fine crying for a few moments.
> 
> Anyways- that's how I personally look at it. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but when I hear people arguing about how they cannot ERF, those are the 3 situations I see come up the most and my personal solutions to them.

I take it none of the 3 reasons above apply to you, otherwise your view would be very different.I'm sorry,i just dont agree with your post at all and think it was very black and white


----------



## Gingerspice

Ok, I will admit we are buying LO their ERF carseat as their christmas pressy. We are not buying them anything else, and we could only justify the cost by including it as part of a 'special occassion'. I know they are expensive, but they last a long time, plus you can't put a price on your childs safety. We are fortunate though in that we do have a car which should easily fit an ERF carseat in, having said that after LO arrived we literally saved every penny to buy a new car (and have no savings as a result) to buy a car that scored high in NCAP ratings and would be spacious for a family and take an ERF because we want LO to be as safe as we could possibly afford. Yes we did shop at Lidl to cut costs and s wap energy providers etc to do so. 

I think it is an issue that should get raised on a more general level than BnB. Perhaps someone could start a petition - is the 10 downing street petitions still available? Maybe trying to get manufacturers to make them more avilable in UK. 

If it did become legal that you should keep a child rear facing then everybody would just have to accept it as an additional cost having children. When is became law to have all children under whatever height/under 12 years in car/booster seats not many really made a big fuss and complained about how it was going to be too expensive for them as a family and they would become homeless. Everybody accepted the move towards safer environments for all children. 

I think ~£50 a year isn't too bad given from age 1 you wouldn't then be buying formula, and potentially from age 2 no nappies etc. It is just another cost, and with the volvo one being even less then I am glad we did get a new car to make LO as safe as possible, and have no regrets that it is very much stretched our finances to get LO the safest thing we could. 

That roll bar option does look like a good alternative to 'normal' FF and something like that would have been the next option if we truly could not have stretched to get a ERF or new car. Also, ISOFIX might be a consideration for some where their seatbelts are problematic. 

I think the point being made continually, is that the problem is the lack of information out there as there are people out there that could afford to ERF and would want to but just do not know anything about it as never been told about it. People on here who have found out about it are fortunate, and those that have weighed it all up, made decision best for them are doing the very best possible, so do not take it personally, but also do not not tell friends/family about the advantages just because your current situation means you are unable to.


----------



## Opal

I have to agree with Kittee because I think this issue IS rather black and white. My opinion. To me, this doesn't seem any different from anything else you buy for baby to keep them safe, happy, and healthy. You just do it because you want the best for your LO. Money may be tight, but you make it work. :shrug:


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Brilliant post gingerspice


----------



## tu123

tu123 said:



> Does anyone have a seat that has fit into a Ford Focus please?
> 
> Thank you for the information-my OH and i had no idea, despite researching our infant seat extensively.

Thanks in advance:winkwink:


----------



## modo

I bought my carseat from the Baby Show in Earls Court exhibition centre in London. I got a maxi cosi Pearl Car seat and a Family Fix isofix base. I was told by the Maxi Cosi Rep that the carseat was worked both forward and rearward. I had intended to use it rearward for a while once Bobby reached the 29lbs limit of the Carbriofix carseat or is 9 months old. 

Now from what I am reading here it seems impossible that my carseat is both forward and rearward facing :( I will of course try and return the seat to Mothercare although it is now stained (I have been putting Bobby in it while I feed his bottle) because I use it at home. 

Does anyone know if I buy a rearward maxicosi Pearl will it still work with the familyfix base?

I am really upset about this :(


----------



## nervousgal

To everyone saying all the negative stuff about me for posting the video. I posted it because I never knew about the dangers of FF carseats until I watched this video. And I was glad I came across it and thought I should post it so others, who (like me!) thought FF was not a big deal, and so they could know the risk they are taking if they did decide to face the car seat forward.


----------



## purpledahlia

tu123 said:


> tu123 said:
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a seat that has fit into a Ford Focus please?
> 
> Thank you for the information-my OH and i had no idea, despite researching our infant seat extensively.
> 
> Thanks in advance:winkwink:Click to expand...

Email the guy at carseat.se he will tell you the best seat for your car and go over specifications etc. :thumbup:


----------



## tu123

nervousgal said:


> To everyone saying all the negative stuff about me for posting the video. I posted it because I never knew about the dangers of FF carseats until I watched this video. And I was glad I came across it and thought I should post it so others, who (like me!) thought FF was not a big deal, and so they could know the risk they are taking if they did decide to face the car seat forward.

Thank you for the post. We did not know anything either. We will research the seat, our car, etc this weekend to see what we can improve on.


----------



## dani_tinks

nervousgal said:


> To everyone saying all the negative stuff about me for posting the video. I posted it because I never knew about the dangers of FF carseats until I watched this video. And I was glad I came across it and thought I should post it so others, who (like me!) thought FF was not a big deal, and so they could know the risk they are taking if they did decide to face the car seat forward.

I appreciate that now. I'm sorry that I contributed to the negativity. :flower:


----------



## purpledahlia

modo said:


> I bought my carseat from the Baby Show in Earls Court exhibition centre in London. I got a maxi cosi Pearl Car seat and a Family Fix isofix base. I was told by the Maxi Cosi Rep that the carseat was worked both forward and rearward. I had intended to use it rearward for a while once Bobby reached the 29lbs limit of the Carbriofix carseat or is 9 months old.
> 
> Now from what I am reading here it seems impossible that my carseat is both forward and rearward facing :( I will of course try and return the seat to Mothercare although it is now stained (I have been putting Bobby in it while I feed his bottle) because I use it at home.
> 
> Does anyone know if I buy a rearward maxicosi Pearl will it still work with the familyfix base?
> 
> I am really upset about this :(

Im afraid the maxi cosi pearl is not a RF seat. Maxi Cosi have just brought out a new RF seat, the Mobi, Which is rearfacing from 9-25KG, non isofix but its tethered to the front seat so just as safe.

ETA, heres the spec for the pearl from kiddicare 


This Maxi-Cosi baby car seat allows babies and children from 9 to 18kg (20-40lbs), approximately 9 months - 4 years, to travel forward facing in the front or rear of most cars. One of the most compact child seats around, it features a smooth and sleek design that fits easily into the car.

Can only be fitted using the Maxi-Cosi FamilyFix Base (sold separately).

And heres a link to the Mobi - https://www.tmbdirect.co.uk/maxi-cosi-mobi---rear-facing-car-seat-5055-p.asp


----------



## Kalah

I'm just curious, why would the erf seat not fit in a car? I'm asking as a genuine question because we planned on getting one and also buying a new car and I'd hate to get a car that doesn't fit one. I just can't figure out how there wouldn't be space, couldn't you just move the passenger seat forward as far as it goes and put the seat behind it? Then the other person just sits in back with your child?


----------



## modo

nervousgal said:


> To everyone saying all the negative stuff about me for posting the video. I posted it because I never knew about the dangers of FF carseats until I watched this video. And I was glad I came across it and thought I should post it so others, who (like me!) thought FF was not a big deal, and so they could know the risk they are taking if they did decide to face the car seat forward.

Thank you for starting this thread! I really appreciate it too. I am so glad I found out now instead of when my LO actually needed to use his seat. Atleast I have some time.


----------



## Gingerspice

Kalah said:


> I'm just curious, why would the erf seat not fit in a car? I'm asking as a genuine question because we planned on getting one and also buying a new car and I'd hate to get a car that doesn't fit one. I just can't figure out how there wouldn't be space, couldn't you just move the passenger seat forward as far as it goes and put the seat behind it? Then the other person just sits in back with your child?

Some cars have short seat belts so fitting a ERF may not be possible fr the length of belt to secure it properly.
Also, it because they usually take more space up in the back, there might not be enough room for them without the front seat having to go all the way forward which may mean no legroom for either the passenger or driver, which may make it impossible for the car to be driven depending on the height of the driver. 
I think thats the 'only' ways they can't fit I would always go with ISOFIX if possible - this will negate the seatbelt problem, and just be aware if you have a tall people in the car, then sme ERF may not be able to then fit in the space leftover in the rear of the car behind the front seats. 

In our old car even the baby RF seat on an ISOFIX base meant the front passenger seat had to go all the way forward for it to fit (Citroen C3) so I doubt a ERF would have fitted in it very easily. It wasn't a problem though as I always sit in the back with LO, but had we had another child this might not have been possible


----------



## ttc_lolly

xbabybumpx said:


> ttc_lolly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> If you are more likely to have a head on collision, then the incident would actually be our fault would it not? where as if we had a rear end collision it would be down to someone else x
> 
> As xemmax said not necessarily - you could be doing nothing wrong and a car coming the opposite direction could swerve into your way? Either way it makes no difference who's at fault! xClick to expand...
> 
> I never said it did matter whose fault it was. It was just a question,maybe a stupid one all the same. No need to be rudeClick to expand...

I don't know how u interpreted that to be rude? u asked a question, all i did was answer :huh: anyway this thread is back on track, so lets keep it that way!


----------



## modo

I have sent off an email asking if a maxi cosi Mobi would fit into our car. We have a Hyundai i30 so hopefully it should fit without have to pull the passenger seat all the way forward.


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

For us it was a short seatbelt issue. It would have been impossible to safely secure it, and an improperly fitted one is not safe x


----------



## SKATERBUN

Janiepops said:


> I haven't read through the whole thread as I started to get a bit bored tbh.....
> 
> So I'll just say this quickly. We can't fit an ERF seat in our car, so we decided to go down the next route and got one of these: https://www.kiddy.de/en/childrens-car-seats/9months-12years/kiddy-guardian-pro.html It has an impact bar instead of a 5 point harness, so the body rolls around it if there's an impact. It's £230 but lasts until they're 12, so a pretty good investment :thumbup:
> 
> I dunno if anyone else has mentioned this kind of seat, sorry if they already have!

Thanks Janiepops :thumbup: That's the 3rd useful thing I've learnt about about car seats in 2 days!! Really appreciate BNB for stuff like this I'd be oblivious otherwise :flower: I'm starting to think ERF may not fit our car as we have strange seats in our Fusion, I'm going to email that poor guy at SE though like everyone else, hes gonna wonder whats going on over here in the UK lol :haha:

Nervousgal, you know you're right, hundreds of posts in just two days proved that - what you did was the most useful thing done all week and we all appreciate you for it, I think there may be a few green eyed ones out there who wished they had posted something like it, BIG THANKS :thumbup:


----------



## Emz1982_in_uk

modo said:


> I have sent off an email asking if a maxi cosi Mobi would fit into our car. We have a Hyundai i30 so hopefully it should fit without have to pull the passenger seat all the way forward.


We have a Mobi in my 307 and it's not too big. The only issue is that because it is tethered you can't really take it in and out of the car easily. So LO is FF in my in laws car who look after him during the week but my car is used the most and for long journey's etc.

Here's a couple of pics of the seat with LO in it :flower:
 



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## Lu28

Kittee said:


> You know what gets me about this subject? And I'll go ahead and apologize in advance if this offends anyone, I am not intentionally pointing my finger at anyone and this is a generalization...
> 
> People who say one of these three things:
> 
> a.) I can't afford it.
> b.) The law says it's ok to FF at 1 year.
> c.) My child cries if I don't FF.
> 
> 
> My response to those three reasons.
> 
> a. If you can't afford it, either because the seat itself is too expensive or the price of a car to fit the seat is too high, then what are you doing on the internet? Drop your internet service for a couple months, drop any other non-necessity, get a job, a second job, craft something to sell, sell some blood plasma, donate an egg, or whatever you need to do to make sure your child has what it needs to be as safe as possible. I know in the states at least and we are one of the least socialist countries out there, that there are organizations to help low income parents afford car seats. So I know there are resources out there, you just have to be willing to look for them and accept them.
> 
> b. The law? Really? We all know that regardless of where you live laws can be quite outdated and silly. The government is always behind the times in regards to the most current scientific data. Most the time the law only suggests the bare minimum.
> 
> *c.To me this is the worst reason of all to choose FF. I consider it a convenience move on the part of the parent. I understand some children are upset about riding in a carseat but turning them around so they won't cry to me is a mistake. I'd much rather a sad child than a dead one. Keep in mind it's only a short amount of time that you have to deal with this too. A 20 min ride some place really worth the risk? And yes crying can be a distraction on you as a driver, maybe wear ear plugs? (If that's legal of course.) Or just focus on the road? The baby will be fine crying for a few moments. *
> 
> Anyways- that's how I personally look at it. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but when I hear people arguing about how they cannot ERF, those are the 3 situations I see come up the most and my personal solutions to them.

I'm going to address the issue of a crying child in a car seat because this is the situation I have found myself in. I'm not sure how your LO copes in the car but with my LO we have had hysterical crying from the beginning to the end of the journey. We don't just drive the car for 20 minutes every now and then. Most of our family here are 45-60 minutes away and obviously there are longer trips which frequently occur. Try driving when you have a baby constantly screaming in your ear - it's not just a bit of a distraction, it's dangerous and I found myself not paying anywhere near as much attention as I should to the road and had a couple of near misses. I would never ever wear earplugs while driving as for me, hearing a car coming up behind you etc is all part and parcel of safe driving and I'm not going to add to the distraction of a screaming child by dulling other sounds too.

Your solution sounds like a very simple one but as someone else has said, this is not a black and white issue and until you have found yourself in that position, it is not for you to judge. Even if you have found yourself in that position, it is not your place to judge as your reaction to a screaming child constantly while driving may be different to others. As much as I want to protect Aisling to the best of my ability, I refuse to make myself a danger to other drivers and to Aisling.


----------



## Emz1982_in_uk

Lu28 said:


> Kittee said:
> 
> 
> You know what gets me about this subject? And I'll go ahead and apologize in advance if this offends anyone, I am not intentionally pointing my finger at anyone and this is a generalization...
> 
> People who say one of these three things:
> 
> a.) I can't afford it.
> b.) The law says it's ok to FF at 1 year.
> c.) My child cries if I don't FF.
> 
> 
> My response to those three reasons.
> 
> a. If you can't afford it, either because the seat itself is too expensive or the price of a car to fit the seat is too high, then what are you doing on the internet? Drop your internet service for a couple months, drop any other non-necessity, get a job, a second job, craft something to sell, sell some blood plasma, donate an egg, or whatever you need to do to make sure your child has what it needs to be as safe as possible. I know in the states at least and we are one of the least socialist countries out there, that there are organizations to help low income parents afford car seats. So I know there are resources out there, you just have to be willing to look for them and accept them.
> 
> b. The law? Really? We all know that regardless of where you live laws can be quite outdated and silly. The government is always behind the times in regards to the most current scientific data. Most the time the law only suggests the bare minimum.
> 
> *c.To me this is the worst reason of all to choose FF. I consider it a convenience move on the part of the parent. I understand some children are upset about riding in a carseat but turning them around so they won't cry to me is a mistake. I'd much rather a sad child than a dead one. Keep in mind it's only a short amount of time that you have to deal with this too. A 20 min ride some place really worth the risk? And yes crying can be a distraction on you as a driver, maybe wear ear plugs? (If that's legal of course.) Or just focus on the road? The baby will be fine crying for a few moments. *
> 
> Anyways- that's how I personally look at it. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but when I hear people arguing about how they cannot ERF, those are the 3 situations I see come up the most and my personal solutions to them.
> 
> I'm going to address the issue of a crying child in a car seat because this is the situation I have found myself in. I'm not sure how your LO copes in the car but with my LO we have had hysterical crying from the beginning to the end of the journey. We don't just drive the car for 20 minutes every now and then. Most of our family here are 45-60 minutes away and obviously there are longer trips which frequently occur. Try driving when you have a baby constantly screaming in your ear - it's not just a bit of a distraction, it's dangerous and I found myself not paying anywhere near as much attention as I should to the road and had a couple of near misses. I would never ever wear earplugs while driving as for me, hearing a car coming up behind you etc is all part and parcel of safe driving and I'm not going to add to the distraction of a screaming child by dulling other sounds too.
> 
> Your solution sounds like a very simple one but as someone else has said, this is not a black and white issue and until you have found yourself in that position, it is not for you to judge. Even if you have found yourself in that position, it is not your place to judge as your reaction to a screaming child constantly while driving may be different to others. As much as I want to protect Aisling to the best of my ability, I refuse to make myself a danger to other drivers and to Aisling.Click to expand...

I agree and I ERF. However we are in a different situation but a situation none the less where LO is FF sometimes. My in laws look after him whilst I go to work and we could not afford two/three £300 seats at the time. I would rather him be in a seat than no seat at all so although I would love to buy 4 different RF seats for everybody's car I can't! Maybe I will save up the money, as for a second job I already work full time whilst studing for a full degree in teaching so that my LO CAN have the best things in life in the future. 

I don't think anybody should be judged for giving their LO the best that they can :flower: It's people that have their LO's wakling around on the backseat of a moving car that makes me :growlmad:


----------



## Kalah

Gingerspice said:


> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I'm just curious, why would the erf seat not fit in a car? I'm asking as a genuine question because we planned on getting one and also buying a new car and I'd hate to get a car that doesn't fit one. I just can't figure out how there wouldn't be space, couldn't you just move the passenger seat forward as far as it goes and put the seat behind it? Then the other person just sits in back with your child?
> 
> Some cars have short seat belts so fitting a ERF may not be possible fr the length of belt to secure it properly.
> Also, it because they usually take more space up in the back, there might not be enough room for them without the front seat having to go all the way forward which may mean no legroom for either the passenger or driver, which may make it impossible for the car to be driven depending on the height of the driver.
> I think thats the 'only' ways they can't fit I would always go with ISOFIX if possible - this will negate the seatbelt problem, and just be aware if you have a tall people in the car, then sme ERF may not be able to then fit in the space leftover in the rear of the car behind the front seats.
> 
> In our old car even the baby RF seat on an ISOFIX base meant the front passenger seat had to go all the way forward for it to fit (Citroen C3) so I doubt a ERF would have fitted in it very easily. It wasn't a problem though as I always sit in the back with LO, but had we had another child this might not have been possibleClick to expand...

Thanks for that, I hadn't even considered seatbelt length!

Does anyone know if there is something that can lengthen a seatbelt and does an isofix base fit on any carseat or will the seat specifically say it fits one? 

Also, we were thinking of getting a ford fiesta, does anyone have one of those and have an ERF seat? We'll email the company when it comes time to buy one, but for now I just wanted to ask incase anyone here knows :flower:


----------



## Emz1982_in_uk

Kalah said:


> Thanks for that, I hadn't even considered seatbelt length!
> 
> Does anyone know if there is something that can lengthen a seatbelt and does an isofix base fit on any carseat or will the seat specifically say it fits one?
> 
> Also, we were thinking of getting a ford fiesta, does anyone have one of those and have an ERF seat? We'll email the company when it comes time to buy one, but for now I just wanted to ask incase anyone here knows :flower:

Only certain seats will fit with Isofix bases and only certain cars accommodate Isofix :flower:


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

Emma1982_in_uk- I couldn't agree more with your last line. TBH, this thread completely misses those who most clearly need it. In a supermarket car park I saw a woman walk out and get in the back of a car with a baby no older than 18 months. The driver drove off without her wearing a seatbelt...the worst bit...the baby was on her knee. Not a carseat in sight :nope:


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

Kalah- I dunno about ERF in a fiesta, but jeez, depending on what pram you have you may be buggered. We have an iCandy cherry, one of the most compact travel systems you can buy and we had a courtesy fiesta last week (new shape '09 plate) and we couldn't get the pram in! We had to really force it, and then nothing else at all could go in the boot! Ridiculous. xx


----------



## Emz1982_in_uk

Dream.A.Dream said:


> Emma1982_in_uk- I couldn't agree more with your last line. TBH, this thread completely misses those who most clearly need it. In a supermarket car park I saw a woman walk out and get in the back of a car with a baby no older than 18 months. The driver drove off without her wearing a seatbelt...the worst bit...the baby was on her knee. Not a carseat in sight :nope:

:growlmad::grr: Dream - it actually makes me angry to the point of wanting to knock their heads off of their shoulders. I mean WTF??!!! I just can't ever imagine doing that :nope:


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

I tried to get their number plate to report them to the police but it was dark and they sped off so fast I only got half of it :( x


----------



## Emz1982_in_uk

Well at least you had good intentions. Let's just pray they never have an accident whilst that baby is in the car like that x


----------



## helen1234

i think if these car seats were promoted properly in the uk and readily available i think 99% of parents would be snatching them off the shelves. 
its the fact that they arent readily available and most parents wont see that video, so i went with the best one that fitted to our car when our lo one was ready to move out the carrier seat. i admit i am being as ignorant in not watching that video as i have a ff car seat. its a british standard seat made for a british car and i know my oh wouldnt buy a seat off the internet just incase it didnt match up with brtish standard and we didnt have someone fit it into our car properly if we were to fit it incorrectly it would be dangerous.
xx


----------



## purpledahlia

The thing is, anyone who sits and spends time on a baby forum clearly does reaserch the choices they make in parenting. Its the parents who dont, that wont get to hear about such new things like ERF. Thats why we as mothers should all band together to raise awareness instead of arguing and people thinking theyre being 'slagged off' for 'not doing the best' ... When thats not the case. 

If you put your child in a car seat, which is properly installed, whether its FF or RF, your doing the best thing. The new reaserch is showing ERF is 5xsafer, but those who FF are still safter than those people like Dream.A.Dream mentioned who dont use a seat OR a seatbelt at all!!

Ive seen some sights aswell, from small tiny tiny babies FF in front seats, to kids as young as 3 with no seat in the back. Its pretty shocking and car companys need to get on board with this too. 

Its something really close to my heart - car safety, as im sure it is for a lot of you.

Hopefully in the next year or so we will see more and more ERF seats, that Maxi Cosi Mobi and the Volvo MultiTech.. thats 2 new seats in a year. So i think it will become more commonplace soon.


----------



## Eve

:thumbup:


----------



## Blue_bumpkin

So for a peugeot (sp?) what would be the best to go for? Sorry for the silly q :blush:

I find RF seats a bit intimidating if i'm honest, I dont wanna go order one that wont fit :(


----------



## Gingerspice

HEre is a link abut ISOFIX. They are not yet mandatory for new cars (will be soon) but most car manufacturers starting installing them from their 02 plate onwards. Always check if buying a new car that it does have ISOFIX. This was a major factor for us when buying as a even a FF carseat is more likely to be more secure in an accident when installed with ISOFIX than one installed by a seatbelt, so if possible use ISOFIX if it is available. 
https://www.childcarseats.org.uk/standards/isofix.htm


----------



## Gingerspice

This is also a good info webpage: https://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html (American sitE)


----------



## Tacey

Blue_bumpkin said:


> So for a peugeot (sp?) what would be the best to go for? Sorry for the silly q :blush:
> 
> I find RF seats a bit intimidating if i'm honest, I dont wanna go order one that wont fit :(

We've got a BeSafe Izi Isofix Car Seat in our 207, but not sure if it would fit all Peugeots. We went to Securatot and got advice from the lady who sells them. She spent nearly an hour telling us which one fitted our car best and how to fit it. I was really impressed. I'd definitely recommend actually going to see someone first, especially if you're uncertain. It's a big purchase and important to get it right. Have a look here (scroll down a bit) for suppliers.


----------



## pinktaffy

my oh kept wanting to have my lo front faceing so he can see her when hes driving. i was like hell no shes stay rf till her legs r half way up the seat haha or atleast untill shes 2 old for rf xx.


----------



## ~RedLily~

Tacey said:

> Blue_bumpkin said:
> 
> So for a peugeot (sp?) what would be the best to go for? Sorry for the silly q :blush:
> 
> I find RF seats a bit intimidating if i'm honest, I dont wanna go order one that wont fit :(
> 
> We've got a BeSafe Izi Isofix Car Seat in our 207, but not sure if it would fit all Peugeots. We went to Securatot and got advice from the lady who sells them. She spent nearly an hour telling us which one fitted our car best and how to fit it. I was really impressed. I'd definitely recommend actually going to see someone first, especially if you're uncertain. It's a big purchase and important to get it right. Have a look here (scroll down a bit) for suppliers.Click to expand...

 Thank you for that. I'm looking at that seat and I've got a 207 :)


----------



## Kalah

pinktaffy said:


> my oh kept wanting to have my lo front faceing so he can see her when hes driving. i was like hell no shes stay rf till her legs r half way up the seat haha or atleast untill shes 2 old for rf xx.

I just wanted to tell you there is a thing you can buy that's just a little mirror that goes in front of a RF seat so you can see the baby still =) I've seen them sold at most places that sell RF carseats. 
Also I wanted to tell you that their legs won't have to go up the seat or anything, I thought that at first too :blush: The seat actually sits back far enough that they have some leg room, not a whole lot but it isn't as cramped as you might think, here's a link to some pictures: https://www.carseat.se/gallery/


----------



## Emz1982_in_uk

Blue_bumpkin said:


> So for a peugeot (sp?) what would be the best to go for? Sorry for the silly q :blush:
> 
> I find RF seats a bit intimidating if i'm honest, I dont wanna go order one that wont fit :(

We have a Maxi Cosi Mobi in our 307

We bought the mirror so we can see LO from mothercare x


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

~RedLily~ said:


> Tacey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blue_bumpkin said:
> 
> So for a peugeot (sp?) what would be the best to go for? Sorry for the silly q :blush:
> 
> I find RF seats a bit intimidating if i'm honest, I dont wanna go order one that wont fit :(
> 
> We've got a BeSafe Izi Isofix Car Seat in our 207, but not sure if it would fit all Peugeots. We went to Securatot and got advice from the lady who sells them. She spent nearly an hour telling us which one fitted our car best and how to fit it. I was really impressed. I'd definitely recommend actually going to see someone first, especially if you're uncertain. It's a big purchase and important to get it right. Have a look here (scroll down a bit) for suppliers.Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for that. I'm looking at that seat and I've got a 207 :)Click to expand...

We have a 206 and looked at teh Besafe Izi - we were told it would fit into our car but we went for the Multitech instead as it was a bit cheaper and had a slightly higher weight limit.


----------



## Seraphim

We've got the ISOFix BeSafe Izi Combi X3

ISOFix is very easy to fit and *negates the short seatbelt issue.*

*For advice on your car* and which seats will fit, any of the primary RF distributors will give you ample information I'm sure. I can recommend Kirsty @ www.securatot.co.uk - She actually phoned _me_ to quiz me on the age/weight of H and make/model of my car :haha:


----------



## subaru555

Thank you for this post. 

I'm a new mum and I wasn't aware that you could even buy rear facing seats which fitted children until they were 4 or 5 - but I always wondered why. I probably would've researched it before I need to buy a bigger car seat and discovered them but its nice to know now.

As far as I'm aware the UK are behind most of these things due to particular poor marketing and awareness. 

I am now looking into rear facing for my boy continually till he can't go in any longer. I'm so glad you can buy these! Do they fit in Range Rovers? or does it need to be an MPV like a Picasso?

I also think that if my Son doesn't get to go front facing he will never know the difference and if he crys he crys we're never in the car that long anyway (for longer than an hour) His safety is more important in a vehicle than his happiness to me, that's my personal opinion.

I have seen people write "oh but you get hit from the back too you know"
*The law of Physics:
Rear facing protect both front and rear collisions - the only way your childs neck could strain from being hit behind in a rear facing is if you were going backwards really fast. Front facing seats will cause the neck to go forward in either a front or rear collision.*


----------



## Adventuredad

Wow, long thread. I haven't read all replies but though I would clarify a few things since many have linked to articles written over at CarSeat.se

Someone wrote a reply mentioning that parents don't have to use rear facing car seats if they don't want to. This is correct, it's a parental decision so everyone can use what they feel is appropriate. 

Many decisions regarding rear facing are based on incorrect information or myths which means a majority of parents don't know that rear facing offer a huge safety difference and also works very well in small to large cars. 

Here in Sweden we keep our children comfortably rear facing to age 4 or longer since we know just how much safer it is. There is no law here for minimum rear facing time, one could theoretically place a 6 month old baby rear facing. Despite this parents are doing a nice job and keeping children rear facing for a long time. It's unusual to even see a 3-year old rear facing.

A few points worth mentioning:

- Rear facing is 5 times safer, a stunning 500%, compared to forward facing. This has been proved by research many times

- Research is not always convincing.... We have been using rear facing seats since 1965 in Sweden and the huge safety benefit in research is confirmed by real life use

- We know from experience it's almost impossible for a rear facing child to die in a car accident regardless of circumstances. A rear facing child in a frontal collision at 50 km/h will step out the car laughing. The outcome will be vastly different for a forward facing child.

- Deactivating airbag in front seat and using this place is the safest place in the car. Using the other places in the car offer similar great safety. HEre in Sweden we use front seat for a large percentage of our children. (airbag must always be deactivated!)

- By using rear facing seats until age 4 or longer we have basically eliminated fatalities among young children. Amount of children aged 0-6 year dying in cars each years is basically zero

- The Swedish seats are only sold in Sweden with very few exceptions

- The Swedish seats fit small to large cars with children being as tall as 125 cm.

- Most compact choices are Akta/Graco DuoLogic and Britax Hi-Way which fit fine in small cars such as Nissan Micra, Opel Corsa, REnault Clio, Ford Fiesta. Peugeot 107, etc.

- A good accessory mentioned above is a rear facing mirror. It's fun for the child and helpful for parent

- Rear facing in a rear collision is as safe or safer than if child was sitting forward facing.

If you have any rear facing questions pls feel free to email to hakan AT carseat.se


----------



## bloodbinds

The only reason i find the original post upsetting is because i FF - yes, it's useful to those who haven't brought a car seat or who haven't given it much thought yet. But those who have made that decision are made to feel like bad parents for doing so :-(

I wanted to RF but i couldn't afford it :shrug: I just couldn't justify spending that much money on a car seat. I'm a single mum that works part-time. It took me a year to find the job i have so i don't see it being possible in getting a second job just like that! And if i did it would mean putting my little girl into childcare all day which would defy the point of getting an extra job as all the extra money would go to that!! Lol. I dont have anything to sell, i've already sold it all before i moved house to pay for funiture for my new place.

I couldn't afford it, and Bella needed a new car seat as it was dangerous to keep her in the old one for any longer as she had outgrown it. I didn't have time to save for a new RF as it would have taken over a year! Lol. (Though any donations to the Bella RF Car Seat fund are very welcome...) So i brought a FF one, and yes, it did torture me to do it (especially as i know the benefits of ERF and even ranted to my sister about it) but at the end of the day i had to do what was realistic for us. I don't appreciate being made to feel bad about that from this forum when i make myself feel bad enough for it!


----------



## purpledahlia

Hun people arent trying to make anyone feel bad. Circumstances happen! The thing thats really good though about this thread is if someone newly pregnant or TTC sees it, they have like, 2 years almost, to save to get a seat should they choose too. So its giving people that time specifially to cut out the problem of lots of people not knowing about ERF. :hugs: You can still save up and get one when you can if you want to :hugs:


----------



## leelee

As PurpleDahlia said, I don't think anyone is trying to make you feel bad. This thread is raise awareness so that people can start saving for a ERF seat from an early stage. It is good to see that the Volvo one is at a fairly reasonable price. Maybe you could ask relatives to give money towards it as a Xmas present for your LO.

The ERF seats seem to last a few years so maybe you could continue to save and get it next year if you feel so strongly about having one.

:hugs:


----------



## Seraphim

bloodbinds said:


> I don't appreciate being made to feel bad about that from this forum when i make myself feel bad enough for it!

Love you babe, but no-one is out to make you feel bad.
If you feel bad you feel bad, the rest of the world doesn't have charge of how you feel.

:kiss:


----------



## nightkd

Adventuredad said:


> Wow, long thread. I haven't read all replies but though I would clarify a few things since many have linked to articles written over at CarSeat.se
> 
> Someone wrote a reply mentioning that parents don't have to use rear facing car seats if they don't want to. This is correct, it's a parental decision so everyone can use what they feel is appropriate.
> 
> Many decisions regarding rear facing are based on incorrect information or myths which means a majority of parents don't know that rear facing offer a huge safety difference and also works very well in small to large cars.
> 
> Here in Sweden we keep our children comfortably rear facing to age 4 or longer since we know just how much safer it is. There is no law here for minimum rear facing time, one could theoretically place a 6 month old baby rear facing. Despite this parents are doing a nice job and keeping children rear facing for a long time. It's unusual to even see a 3-year old rear facing.
> 
> A few points worth mentioning:
> 
> - Rear facing is 5 times safer, a stunning 500%, compared to forward facing. This has been proved by research many times
> 
> - Research is not always convincing.... We have been using rear facing seats since 1965 in Sweden and the huge safety benefit in research is confirmed by real life use
> 
> - We know from experience it's almost impossible for a rear facing child to die in a car accident regardless of circumstances. A rear facing child in a frontal collision at 50 km/h will step out the car laughing. The outcome will be vastly different for a forward facing child.
> 
> - Deactivating airbag in front seat and using this place is the safest place in the car. Using the other places in the car offer similar great safety. HEre in Sweden we use front seat for a large percentage of our children. (airbag must always be deactivated!)
> 
> - By using rear facing seats until age 4 or longer we have basically eliminated fatalities among young children. Amount of children aged 0-6 year dying in cars each years is basically zero
> 
> - The Swedish seats are only sold in Sweden with very few exceptions
> 
> - The Swedish seats fit small to large cars with children being as tall as 125 cm.
> 
> - Most compact choices are Akta/Graco DuoLogic and Britax Hi-Way which fit fine in small cars such as Nissan Micra, Opel Corsa, REnault Clio, Ford Fiesta. Peugeot 107, etc.
> 
> - A good accessory mentioned above is a rear facing mirror. It's fun for the child and helpful for parent
> 
> - Rear facing in a rear collision is as safe or safer than if child was sitting forward facing.
> 
> If you have any rear facing questions pls feel free to email to hakan AT carseat.se

Excellent and informative post :thumbup:

I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad for FF if they have no other choice (ie can't afford the more expensive ERF car seats (I think they should be made cheaper - more people would buy them and more children would be safer for longer!)) but I do think people who have the capability to RF their children for an extended amount of time need to be educated...because there is NOT enough advertising for this!

ETA: I also was not aware that the front seat is of equal safety (with a rear facing child and airbag deactivated) as the back seats... Interesting! And possibly a solution for those who feel they have to FF their children due to crying/fussing and needing to tend to them?


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## nightkd

Dream.A.Dream said:


> Emma1982_in_uk- I couldn't agree more with your last line. TBH, this thread completely misses those who most clearly need it. In a supermarket car park I saw a woman walk out and get in the back of a car with a baby no older than 18 months. The driver drove off without her wearing a seatbelt...the worst bit...the baby was on her knee. Not a carseat in sight :nope:

Oh my God! :nope: I watched a video about wearing your seatbelt/car safety on Youtube and there was a bit where a lady was in the back playing with her young baby on her lap...the guy driving the car looked up into the rearview mirror and smiled at them, looked down and drove into a wall or something because he wasn't paying attention...I won't describe the next part of the video, because it really upset me and makes me feel sick even thinking about it. That was just a dummy baby in a crash to prove a point...why would you even risk your own child by doing something STUPID like that?! :cry:


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## special_kala

River will be rear facing for as long as possible hopefully 4. We have less money then we did when i was pregnant with River and im already trying to work out how i can afford a ERF car seat again but no matter what we will get another as a second stage seat.

Ive spoken to people about it and they say its to expensive yet have pushchairs that cost £500+. Ill probably sell our expensive pushchair and use the money to fund the car seat as to me a flashy pushchair is nothing compared to a childs safety.

I dont think people should feel bad for FF as its safer then nothing but some of the things people have said to me about RF are ridiculous like "oh she wont be able to see out of the window" so what??

Everyone does the best they can for their children nd thats what matters.


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## Kalah

special_kala said:


> River will be rear facing for as long as possible hopefully 4. We have less money then we did when i was pregnant with River and im already trying to work out how i can afford a ERF car seat again but no matter what we will get another as a second stage seat.
> 
> Ive spoken to people about it and they say its to expensive yet have pushchairs that cost £500+. Ill probably sell our expensive pushchair and use the money to fund the car seat as to me a *flashy pushchair is nothing compared to a childs safety.*
> 
> I dont think people should feel bad for FF as its safer then nothing but some of the things people have said to me about RF are ridiculous like "oh she wont be able to see out of the window" so what??
> 
> Everyone does the best they can for their children nd thats what matters.

I agree with that. We bought a fairly cheap stroller (£100) because we didn't need a fancy one, but we'll be buying a nice expensive RF seat because we feel like that is a necessity.


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