# Increased NT



## cnote

I had my 12 week scan on Wednesday and my husband and I were told the baby had a 3.5 -3.7 NT. My bloods were fine, but I guess based on my age (almost 34) they gave us a 20% chance of chromosomal abnormalities and a 10% chance of a heart defect. Upon further research online, I've discovered that some studies have shown the risk to be even higher than this. I have a CVS scheduled for next Tuesday, but I would like to just terminate regardless. I do not want a baby with a lifelong disorder of any kind. I do not think my baby is "special"; I think it's a product of biology and if I have the ability to prevent pain and suffering, I should. Call me cold-hearted, but that's just who I am - or rather what I've become after a life of personal challenges. However, my husband wants to wait for testing results. We are newlyweds and I'm afraid to rock the marriage by insisting upon termination. I just don't really know what to do.


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## Willow01

Is it just heart breaking when this happens. I will not judge you in any way I promise, I was in a similar situation to you last year. My NT level came back high (3) and correlating that along with my age (35) I was given a 1-300 chance of my baby having DS. We had already discussed before I fell pregnant that we felt it best to not carry on with the pregnancy if we were ever told this news. Everyone kept telling me this was still good odds and it would be ok but I just didn't want to take the chance so paid £500 for the Harmony test. It gives you a 99.5% result to tell whether your baby has a deformality or not, have you heard of this? Could you look into it or other similar tests, nifty for example? After 12 weeks your babies blood begins to mix with yours and so these tests split your blood from babies and from there can tell exactly what is happening. This also removes the need for the CVS which is invasive and carries its own risks. I hope you read this and have a chat to your partner about possibly taking one of these tests so you know for sure. My results took 9 days to come back, longest 9 days ever but I knew for sure what was going on and could relax. Please don't feel bad about how you are feeling either, as I said I felt the same way too and if it wasn't for these tests I wouldn't have my 8 month old lying beside me now. Please feel free to pm me if you want someone to chat to about thisx


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## cnote

Hi Willow, thanks for your reply and for being so non-judgmental. We were given the option for the blood test (non-invasive) but we were advised toward the CVS test because our risk is so high they want to be able to examine the actual chromosomes and provide a definitive answer. I'm seriously just spent though; I feel like I can't deal with this. Even if test results come back negative, then I have to wait until 20 weeks to check the heart and other organs. So at 20 weeks I might still need to terminate. I would honestly rather terminate now, wait a few months, and try again. Why risk having to terminate a baby at 15-20 weeks? It's like saying, there's a 30% risk if I get on that plane that it will crash today. Would I do it? Hell no! How is this different?

I do worry that I would regret it though, and wonder if everything would have been okay. I don't know, I just want to go back in time and have my hubby put on a condom. I know I sound cold, but I'm not afraid of real talk.


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## Willow01

I personally think I would want to do the same and terminate now rather than at 20 weeks. It's so different for you than your husband, the baby is growing inside you and say you have to wait until 20 weeks by then you will be feeling flutters, maybe movements and it will be so hard not to try to fall in love with the baby just incase you have to terminate. This is such a hard decision. If you do terminate now there will always be the what if question in your mind but I think the way I would deal with that is to just keep thinking there was something wrong and that it is for the best, if you think the other way you will always beat yourself up. Is it worthwhile trying to sit your partner down again and have another chat about this? I understand your fear of rocking the marriage but it sounds like he isn't fully understanding your concerns, it must be hard for him too though but it sounds like he is hoping in his mind it will be ok after the tests but is he thinking ahead to 20 weeks and what could happen then? This is such a hard situation for you, I am thinking of youx


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## cnote

Thanks Willow...I spoke with a genetic counselor yesterday (one from the hospital I go to) and she said my chances are not all that bad, and that she's seen a lot of good outcomes from babies with similar NT measurements. She strongly advised me to do the CVS and wait for test results before terminating. To respect my husband's wishes, I will do that, but I don't have high hopes. In the pit of my stomach, something always felt off about this pregnancy. My husband is alarmed because he says I have no regard for human life and it seems like I don't love the baby, but it's not that at all. I just tend to see things in black and white and if something isn't working, I don't like to drag it out....but I do worry maybe I'm not cut out to be a mom if I think like this. But I would do anything for the people I love, I would die for them. But I guess I don't love something I never got to know, or something that only causes me misery. Anyway Willow, thanks for the support. Have a great weekend.


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## britt0285

Hi Cnote,

I'm sorry you are going through this my husband and I had a similar experience just over the past two weeks. Our NT measurement varied from 2.6mm - 3.1mm. I'm 31 and my OB didnt even do the Quad screening this time, which Im a little confused about because I dont remember turning it down. I had the progenity (similar to the maternity21, etc). It was agonizing because I also was not sure what the best option would be if something was wrong. I have a terrible genetic disorder in my family and I would not want to bring someone into this world only to suffer. I don't think that's fair either. But I think your chances are really good.


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## cnote

Thanks for the positive thoughts, Britt. I don't know if you're in the U.S., but at my hospital here in California (Kaiser), your NT measurements are considered normal. In fact, we were told that had our NT measurement been below 3.5, our risk level would have gone down dramatically. So being on the "cusp" so to speak makes us feel a little more hopeful. But I'm no fool and won't let hope make me delusional. I'm sorry you're going through this as well, but hopefully it will make you feel better to know that my doctor would have considered your scan normal. Maybe it ranges from country to country, state to state. I understand the worry though. Any chance of the baby being abnormal is shocking. It's just one of those things that feels so f**ked up and unfair. Especially if you're healthy and the odds of it happening are so slim to start with.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, but I think you will find yourself feeling much better after you get your results.


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## britt0285

I am in Texas actually. And I did read that it varies from hospital to hospital. I have already gotten my results back and they were negative and we found out we are having a little boy. I would do the blood test its an awful, sucky wait but I feel a lot better now. Sorry I missed the part about the CVS. It should give you closure on whatever decision you make. I also read an opinion a cardiologist had written regarding this measurement saying, it was hard to be exact because you are measuring fluid with sound waves. Also depending on how the baby's neck is postured it can effect the measurement, and a millimeter is so small. Take care of yourself.


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## MoBaby

I'm the same age as you. 34 this week actually. We were given a 1:18 chance for downs after my NT scan and bloodwork. The measurement was 2.97-3.1mm and the cut off was 3mm where I'm at. But my bloodwork was off, my hcg levels were super high for gestation. My Ob was on the fence as to if we would have abnormal results and she said that women in my shoes do sometimes choose to terminate. I chose to do the harmony and if it was abnormal I would do the aminocentesis. I've gone through countless rounds of ivf and miscarriage after miscarriage so I actually valued my pregnancy from the point of knowing I was pregnant. There was no way i was going to terminate unless something completely and horrible was wrong. There is a living being inside you. It is something special to be valued. But I guess if you've never struggled to conceive and it's easy to get pregnant and you've never suffered the heart ache of a loss you would feel the way you do. Not being judge mental at all because I would not want to have a child with a serious medical condition and one that would have a poor quality of life. We did a fetal echo at 19 weeks and it was completely normal. I spent countless hours of research, reading journal after journal and I had assumed the worse. But everything came back normal and has continued to be normal and there is nothing wrong with the baby. I think you should wait for the results of the cvs before making any decisions. I don't think it's fair to the baby to just terminate based on some stupid screening tests that has a high false positive rate. I think it would rock your marriage for sure because your husband seems as he is in love with this baby already and is wanting to keep it until you know. If the cvs is normal and you're still not convinced you can do an amino at 14 weeks I believe. And if that is normal you can be assured genetically the baby is fine. Most cardiac defects come with a much much higher nt measurement than yours. I think you need to have a long discussion with your husband. I wouldn't let some dumb screening test make you think something is wrong because you don't know. It's a screening test only. Please get more conclusive results before terminating this baby's life. The baby is more than likely completely normal. You should get results the day after the cvs so it won't cause much of a delay in things. I'm sorry you're going through this.


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## cnote

Thanks MoBabyfor your suggestions, you make totally reasonable points. We have the CVS scheduled for Tuesday, and we're going to wait for results from there. Unfortunately, we have to wait 2 weeks because my hospital doesn't do FISH. I think that's what's hardest about this right now...I haven't told my employer or any friends about the pregnancy because I was waiting for the 12 week scan and now I have to go on hiding it longer. I'm starting to show a little as well so it's getting a bit awkward walking around at work, sucking in my stomach and trying to wear long sweaters in the California summer heat. 

I think what disturbs me most of all is my reaction to this. I'm clearly messed up and have some sort of psychological issue, like maybe I'm a sociopath now or am so severely depressed I can't access empathy anymore. I just feel nothing but fear and regret for getting pregnant. Even after the 12 week ultrasound and seeing the baby move, I didn't feel anything but numb. I have gone through some horrid things in this life and never sought counseling since I figured it was all common sense crap anyhow, but I'm starting to realize I may have ptsd or something and it's causing me to detach severely from other people including the baby. Like the thought of anything being wrong with the baby just makes me want to wipe the slate clean and I know most mothers don't feel that way and it's unnatural. I have scheduled a session with a counselor next Thursday. If the results come back positive for a defect and we do terminate, I've decided I need to address this issue before we try again.


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## britt0285

I think fear and regret are very normal reactions, because I felt this also. Because it is also in my nature to assume the worse outcome. It is a terrible feeling to always be dreading, or waiting for the next thing to drop. The numb feeling is probably shock. I know when they were telling me something could be wrong I was just completely zone out and I just kept thinking, "please stop talking". I think counseling is always a good idea, for everyone. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts. I hope you are able to get some peace. I am sorry you have to wait the full two weeks.


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## MoBaby

I'm sorry you have to wait such a long time for results. Wonder why they won't do fish with final results pending. 
I think how you are feeling is completely normal in a way. If you detach from something then you can't be upset if you have to make a decision is how I'm seeing it. But if you've had a pretty bad life otherwise and never really dealt with it I think the counseler is a good idea. He/she can help you sort through some of the emotional issues underlying. Use your husband for emotional support. Don't be afraid to let your guard up and tell him how terrified you are. Cry if you need to. He is supposed to be there for you and I'm sure he will be. Remember he is fighting this too. He is terrified as well. His baby is affected just as much as your baby is. You guys need each other. It's terrifying to be in your situation. It really is. I didn't tell my coworkers (except the few who had to know right away as I work in radiation) until after 14 weeks, until after the harmony test came back. And still then I was terrified something was wrong or would go wrong. It's hard not to be in control. I totally get it. Pregnancy is the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. But it's also the best thing I've ever done. I have 36 days left and can't wait for it to be over. We are all here to support you the best we can. I know we aren't around physically but we can talk whenever you need to.


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## Septie

Can't you insist on FISH to get preliminary relief or confirmation of some of the major concerns? If you pay for it yourself? A 20% of a chromosomal issue is quite large, so it is not surprising that you have detached from this pregnancy.
On the other hand, some heart defects are actually not such doom and gloom and can be fixed relatively easily (and remember, even a baby that looks perfectly healthy in utero can still have some things wrong, or get sick later in life, so don't outright doom the baby for some fixable issues that are not a major concern for his/her or your quality of life). If the cvs comes back clean, they can probably even give you an early scan to check for some major heart defects at 16 weeks or so, and then check for the more minor ones at the 20 week scan plus echo.


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## shellshocked

I think there are plenty of women who would react as you have. Often it is a protective mechanism. Distancing yourself and your unborn child from heartache, pain and sadness. Sometimes you just have to be brutal in your feelings and you're entitled to them. I would never judge in this situation. Life is hard enough without knowingly bringing a life into this world that would be in pain or have life limiting conditions. Nobody wants their child to suffer or to have a serious medical condition often people who have babies with genetic issues didn't know of them before hand and love them regardless and adjust their lives and feelings to do the best that they can. However, as others have suggested I really would wait for more conclusive test results. The screening tests only give a risk they cannot tell whether there is an abnormality or not. Whatever your outcome or your decision I would probably talk through my feelings with a counsellor, even if its just that they tell you everything you are feeling is normal. I hope the next few weeks pass quickly. Pregnancy is full of so many unknowns it really is a stressful time, I hope you get the results that you hope for.


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## tag74

You can get an amnio at 15 weeks now. I did with my son who I lost to Trisomy 18. I received my FISH results within 24 hours and then sadly had to terminate a week later due to Full T18. I would do the Amnio over the CVS - it's more accurate and less risky.


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## cnote

Thanks everyone for your responses, thoughtful comments and advice. I had the CVS this morning. It was not as bad as I had envisioned. I read some major horror stories online about the pain, pressure, etc. but it was sort of meh. Not quite as simple as a blood draw, but not as bad as a shot. Anyway, the NT was the same, 3.7 - no change, but the doc who performed the procedure said we should try and remain optimistic because most of the time things are okay. So now we wait to see what happens. At least now if we get bad news in 2 weeks, we can terminate knowing it truly was the right choice. Will keep everyone posted.


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## MoBaby

Will keep everything crossed all is okay!!


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## Cowgirl07

I hope all is okay!


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## tag74

FX!


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## MoBaby

Hope your doing okay!! Been thinking about you. Not much longer to wait


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## Hope16

Praying that everything turns out just fine!! Have faith!!


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## Hopeful27yrs

We had an NT of 4.2mm and everything turned out ok. We had the same odds as you also. Googling was very reassuring and i must say that the odds of having a completely normal baby from this are high. All the best x


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## cnote

I JUST got the results - NORMAL! No chromosomal issues. The genetic counselor said now we have to wait for the "microarray" results, which is another 2 weeks! Like, seriously?? But she did say that our chances of the baby being normal and healthy went WAY up since we got initial normal results. She said we should feel very reassured - and I do!

I'm glad I did not terminate. Although, I know we're not in the clear and there's a still a chance something could be wrong. But I have more faith now that maybe it will turn out okay. Thanks everyone for all your positive thoughts and support. Truly!

P.S. - Its a boy!


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## MoBaby

Congratulations!!! So happy for you. Amazing :)


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## Hope16

congrats!! So Happy all is well!!


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## britt0285

Aw, congratulations!


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## tag74

Best news ever!!!! So happy for you!


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## cnote

Thanks ladies for your support - it really makes me feel better! We're not out of the woods yet...still waiting on this microarray stuff and the noonan's test. We might get results Thur or Fri, but more likely Monday. Will keep you all posted! I've read just about EVERY increased/thick NT thread on the internet and the worst is when people don't come back and say what happened! I will be back when more results become available. :thumbup:


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## Amygdala

I'm so glad to read that you had positive news! How are you feeling now? For the record, I don't think you sound cold (let alone like a sociopath!), I think you sound scared for your baby. I've had a few losses in the past and am very slow to bond with a pregnancy now and I actually think that's a good thing. I have two healthy kids and I love them beyond words and I know without the shadow of a doubt that I'll love this baby just as much when it joins us. That doesn't mean that I can't be guarded about my feelings before I know everything is ok though. Since our first loss, I've tried to think of early pregnancy as the chance of a baby, rather than a baby already, and when we had a very early loss at 6.5 weeks, I was honestly mostly relieved that it didn't happen later. So from that point of view I can understand your desire to terminate rather than risk having to make that decision later, even though I can't possibly say what I'd want in your situation. We've had 5 scans already and a low nt measurement but no blood work yet and I'm only now starting to believe this is going to result in a baby for us, hopefully. It sounds like this is your first baby? If that's the case, I can totally see how you'd feel weird about feeling "cold" about the pregnancy before you know you'll be ok, but honestly, I don't think it'll affect your bond with the baby or how good a mother you will be one bit. Try not to beat yourself up about it! 
By all means address the things in your past that you think might be interfering with your bond with this pregnancy but honestly, don't worry that that bond won't come. Wishing you all the very best and nothing but plain sailing from now on!


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## cnote

Amygdala, thanks for being so non-judgmental and empathetic. This whole situation has really opened my eyes to the mixed opinions and feelings people have regarding high-risk pregnancies, and has really made me examine my own mixed feelings on it. It's a roller-coaster with a lot of grey areas, frustration and waiting. It sucks man! I'm so sorry to hear about your pregnancy struggles and losses. I totally understand why it's hard to bond with a baby who may or may not actually make it into the world. So much of bonding with the baby involves imagination, and planning, and visions of the future...when that is taken away from you, it's almost like having a stranger living in your belly. It's a bizarre and anxiety-ridden existence until you get answers one way or another. Congrats on making it this far in your current pregnancy! It sounds like this one is ready for the long journey! I wish you and your little guy or gal a stress-free and healthy pregnancy as well! Keep me posted!

P.S. ya'll - microarray came back normal! Now we have the noonan's test and detailed ultrasound next. Both of those results will be available in 2-2.5 weeks...hoping only good news for my lil dude from here on out! Will update after the scan.


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## Amygdala

That sounds really positive! Hopefully soon this will all just be a horrible scare in the past and you'll be able to finally enoy your pregnancy. Will be checking back for good news.


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## cnote

So we had our level 2 ultrasound a few hours ago, and the doctor said the baby looks great! Everything was in normal range, including the NT which was at 4mm (at 18-20 weeks, 6mm is max for normal range). We got to see our little guy sucking on his hand and kicking his legs. He's so cute! We still have an echocardiogram at 22 weeks and we're still waiting for noonan's results, although we're pretty optimistic now. I think what really disturbs me so much at this point is reflecting on this whole journey, and realizing how much pain and stress could have been avoided if the doctor would have just delivered the news of the increased NT better. Literally, that first conversation about the what ifs made a tremendous impact on both me and my husband and we nearly terminated the pregnancy because of it. But our baby appears to actually be healthy. I'm not the type to complain, but I do want to let the Kaiser OBGYN Dept know at some point that they really need to work on their communication skills when it comes to difficult conversations with patients because poor communication skills can literally result in unnecessary death, not to mention the psychological scarring for the patients. Anyway, end of rant. Will continue to update when the other results come in but so far, so good!


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## Amygdala

I'm so glad to read your good news!
I also know what you're talking about regarding interpersonal skills in medical professionals. I'm having a pretty tough time at the moment, worrying much more than I should. And I realised it's because of the very abrupt attitude of the sonographer at my last scan. It just makes you feel uneasy when people aren't saying anything reassuring. So I can only imagine the impact of someone presenting something as worrying as your situation in a bad way. I'm so glad it turned out well but I think you're right, your doctor should have tried to help you worry less. Apart from the risk that parents decide to end what is really a healthy pregnancy, the psychological impact of losing faith like that shouldn't be underestimated. It's tough to trust your body and a pregnancy again after thinking that it may be over.


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## MoBaby

cnote I am so happy your baby is okay!! I know how you feel after we were high risk. I think your dr presented it to you like our dr did which ws not appropriate. Actually my OB even mentioned termination before any confirmation tests were back and we had an NT of 2.97-3.1mm. You are right there are unnecessary baby deaths. I think these days the drs have to CYA if you know what I mean so they basically have to give worse case scenario and all the options. I agree there is an appropriate way to go about things which can make the world of difference and if you feel you werent treated right or given the best care you should have you should complain. I am relieved for you (which I know you are as well!!) and will keep all crossed this pregnancy continues to go smooth from here on out.


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## Willow01

Brilliant news!!


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## tag74

Best news ever!!


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## cnote

Thanks so much ladies for all your comments! It's really comforting to know others have gone through this process and can relate to how I felt/am feeling. I wish none of us have had to suffer this way, but I am very grateful that all of us are luckily experiencing healthy pregnancies (and healthy deliveries! Congrats MoBaby on your handsome guy!). I do hope that in time, the whole screening and diagnostic process can develop better practices when it comes to patient communication and tough discussions. More than anything, I hope I (and none of you) ever have to even have a conversation like that with a doctor again.

all that being said - our noonan's results are negative! So for anyone surfing the web desperate for reassurance after a high NT - have hope! 

Here is my timeline for anyone going through all the testing and wondering when the madness will end!

7/6 - 3.7 NT, 1/5 chance of downs, 1/10 heart defect
7/12 - CVS
7/22 - CVS Clear
8/3 - Microarray Clear
8/19 - Level 2 ultrasound great
8/25 - Noonan's results clear

There is now a 95% chance of a good outcome.

Thank you again ladies for all your support! Xo


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## cnote

Just wanted to update this thread for anyone going through an abnormal NT scare. I know I hated it when I was reading similar threads online and no one would come back to update! My baby boy was born on 1/15 weighing 6 lbs 15 oz and is perfectly healthy and normal.
 



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## justplay91

Congratulations! He's beautiful!


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## crazylilth1ng

Awww so cute congrats!!!


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## pansorie

Awww, this thread made me cry!! Congratulations!!


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## Nikki1979

Awww he is gorgeous!! Congrats. My little one was also born on 1/15 last year.


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## cnote

He is now 12 weeks and doing great, healthy as a horse, never even had diaper rash! He's in the 80th percentile in both height and weight. Can't imagine him not being here, I'm so glad I stuck it out and held on to hope.
 



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## cnote

Dont know why these images are uploading sideways, lol.


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