# the right to choose a section



## fuzzballxxx

evening ladies, 
my current blog post is about the new guidelines to allow women to choose to have a c section even if it isn't medically necessary. As many of you ladies will be given birth soon i was just wondering your views


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## chuck

LOL if this thread takes off expect it to be moved to news and debates.

This one always causes a stir.

You can probably tell by my sig what my opinion on CS is.

*there are too many CS carried out (too often due to a cascasde of pointless interventions because women don't labour according to the textbook)
*they should NEVER be an option unless there is medical (including psychological) need (not just failure to wait)
*VBAC should be the default situation over repeat CS even for VBAMC

But hey that's only MY opinion, some people will pick major surgery because they think it's convenient or that they think have a good enough reason which turns out to be ignorance or fear (don't get me wrong true dysfunctional anxiety over birth or birth trauma is different to the normal OMG I'm a bit scared of child birth - get a grip woman you want a baby deal with it!).


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## Emleexx

I experienced birth trauma with my first child & it was awful. I will never feel at peace with the way he entered the world & I will always struggle to accept that I have no idea of really what happened - as you can probably guess, I'm electing to have a c-section this time & although I may question my decision every now & then I know I couldn't possibly face labour again. I vowed never to have any more kids unless I could have a c-section! 

I'm praying for a positive elective c-section story & will definitely come on here to post about it when it's all said & done! 

In order to ensure that I would 100% be able to have an elective c-section my DH & I took out private health insurance. As far as I am aware you won't be guaranteed one in the public hospitals unless it's deemed medically necessary. 

I do feel as though women should have the right to choose.


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## carla92

well to be honest this really gets my goat ! annoys me just as much as i NEED an epidural ! both are totally bonkers in my opinion , you have a baby to go throught the experience start to finish and giving birth naturally and feeling it is part of this ! im not opposed to c-section for medical reasons at all but just because you dont feel like giving birth because its going to hurt is ridiculus if your not ready to give birth your not ready to be A PARENT :) to many people belive they are too posh to push these days and dotors are just as bed and c-sections are done because there shift is due to end in ten minutes and your not ready to deliver lol I once met a girl same age as me 19 who said to me i hope my baby is breach or transverse and wont turn then i can have a c-section !! I mean come on seriously this is what were letting people do


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## chuck

Emleexx said:


> I experienced birth trauma with my first child & it was awful. I will never feel at peace with the way he entered the world & I will always struggle to accept that I have no idea of really what happened - as you can probably guess, I'm electing to have a c-section this time & although I may question my decision every now & then I know I couldn't possibly face labour again. I vowed never to have any more kids unless I could have a c-section!
> 
> I'm praying for a positive elective c-section story & will definitely come on here to post about it when it's all said & done!
> 
> In order to ensure that I would 100% be able to have an elective c-section my DH & I took out private health insurance. As far as I am aware you won't be guaranteed one in the public hospitals unless it's deemed medically necessary.
> 
> I do feel as though women should have the right to choose.

Take a look at what's around about 'gentle cesarean' they can be fab it you plan it well!


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## cherryglitter

in my opinion, i think c-sections should only be for emergencies when needed.
also in subsequent births where women have previously had a section, i do think VBAC's should be really encouraged. 

unless of course it would affect a womans physical/mental health.


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## Arisa

carla92 said:


> well to be honest this really gets my goat ! annoys me just as much as i NEED an epidural ! both are totally bonkers in my opinion , you have a baby to go throught the experience start to finish and giving birth naturally and feeling it is part of this ! im not opposed to c-section for medical reasons at all but just because you dont feel like giving birth because its going to hurt is ridiculus if your not ready to give birth your not ready to be A PARENT :) to many people belive they are too posh to push these days and dotors are just as bed and c-sections are done because there shift is due to end in ten minutes and your not ready to deliver lol I once met a girl same age as me 19 who said to me i hope my baby is breach or transverse and wont turn then i can have a c-section !! I mean come on seriously this is what were letting people do

This is a cruel and old fashioned way of thinking. Its also similar to saying that pain does not exist or mental health problems during pregnancy are fake, its all arrogant and untrue
It has nothing to do with being too posh to push, what if you HAVE to have a C-section due to medical reasons? are you saying that these women are not experiencing birth? and as for being against epidural? I think thats very callous and unkind. You have no concept of mental health and what it entails.
Fears, panic attacks, phobias, tearing, scarring, rectal damage and faecal incontinence are enough to put me off vaginal birth as are seeing people in labor and the hell they go through.

I do not blame that woman who said she wanted a breech baby so she can have a c section

anyway since this is 2011 and my baby is due in 2012, my doctor said its MY choice as maternal preference cannot be discriminated against anymore. so needless to say I will be getting an elective C-section

My hubbys mum had an incompetent cervix and had four c sections and this was done in the 1970's-80s and she healed well and is physically healthy, then I compare that to my mother and aunty who had vaginal births and tore even with an episiotomy which is IMO genital mutilation and were unable to walk properly afterwards and definetly think the c section is a better option. But one can not judge until they have walked in someone elses shoes 

*so do not judge a woman who has a C-section because you have no idea what she is going through mentally and physically *


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## BlueBug

Arisa, I believe she did say she wasn't against c-sections for medical reasons.

Anywho, I believe as a woman who has been creating, caring for, and lugging around a new life for 40ish weeks of her life...she has the right to chose how she wants to experience labor and how she wants her baby to enter the world. 

That said... I am personally not for elective c-sections. I plan on having a completely natural labor and birth. I've never had so much as a stitch, so a full on operation is terrifying to me. I also grew up knowing that most of the women in my family had totally natural births without any problems or horrendous pain stories. I like the idea that my baby will be born when it's ready and not when a doctor or myself have scheduled it. I feel like the baby has a more pleasant experience if it progresses through all the natural birth stages.

I do think some women (and their babies) might just as well be better off with a c-section though. The fear and anxiety some women have over giving birth would probably make their labor even longer or more painful and in turn make their babies birth an unpleasant event for all.


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## Arisa

BlueBug said:


> Arisa, I believe she did say she wasn't against c-sections for medical reasons.
> 
> Anywho, I believe as a woman who has been creating, caring for, and lugging around a new life for 40ish weeks of her life...she has the right to chose how she wants to experience labor and how she wants her baby to enter the world.
> 
> That said... I am personally not for elective c-sections. I plan on having a completely natural labor and birth. I've never had so much as a stitch, so a full on operation is terrifying to me. I also grew up knowing that most of the women in my family had totally natural births without any problems or horrendous pain stories. I like the idea that my baby will be born when it's ready and not when a doctor or myself have scheduled it. I feel like the baby has a more pleasant experience if it progresses through all the natural birth stages.
> 
> I do think some women (and their babies) might just as well be better off with a c-section though. The fear and anxiety some women have over giving birth would probably make their labor even longer or more painful and in turn make their babies birth an unpleasant event for all.

True, well mine is not just being a bit scared of pain, its a full blown anixety disorder that was keeping me awake at night and unable to sleep, eat or think and i am only in my first trimester.

I think its a womans right to choose. its a womans right to choose whether or not she has a baby, so why is it not acceptable to choose a birth plan that suits?

I know too many women who have had bad births vaginally and are on medication for PTSD after a bad birth scarred them and tore them. One friend of mine is unable to have sex properly from a bad birth and its straining her marriage. 
I do not think its a selfish or superficial reason to avoid a vaginal birth if you have a genuine fear or have had a terrible first birth that left you physically torn and with incontinence


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## FirstLadyM

If your not ready to give birth your not ready to be a parent? Wow! that was a little extreme don't you think? 

Good for you...you have a high pain tolerance. That has nothing to do with parenting skills. :roll:


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## redstiletto

I've actually thought about an elective cesarean to save keep my nice vaj muscles nice and toned lol. It's very common here in Cali. I decided to stick with a normal vaginal delivery though because I've witnessed many babies that end up in the NICU :-(. In a c-section, the lungs don't get compressed and ready for expansion as it would if the baby had gone through the vaginal canal.


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## catcatcat

FirstLadyM said:


> If your not ready to give birth your not ready to be a parent? Wow! that was a little extreme don't you think?
> 
> Good for you...you have a high pain tolerance. That has nothing to do with parenting skills. :roll:

With my first i hadnt been a parent yet!! Then after giving birth naturally twice i have a 6yr old & 4 yr old and have proved myself to b a great parent. 
I now find myself unable to give birth again and im having an elective csection. Im more than ready to be a parent. Its a totally different thing not wanting to give birth due to fear is bugger all to do with being a parent x


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## FirstLadyM

I don't get the connection. I totally understand the empowerment one must feel going through hell and back to have a baby naturally. But to say that if you're not willing to do it that your not ready to be a parent makes no sense. A 12 year old can push out a baby. Maybe I'm taking it too literal. :shrug:


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## amjon

I think people should be allowed to have a section if they want it, but I don't think they should expect tax payers to pay for it unless there is a medical reason. If you are paying for something yourself, you are welcome to do what you want, when you want it paid for by taxpayers, then doctor calls the shots on more expensive options.


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## chuck

FirstLadyM said:


> If your not ready to give birth your not ready to be a parent? Wow! that was a little extreme don't you think?
> 
> Good for you...you have a high pain tolerance. That has nothing to do with parenting skills. :roll:

LOL but if you are going to have a baby you need to wake up to the fact you need to give birth to the baby.


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## FirstLadyM

Yup...but giving birth doesn't mean vaginal. And vaginal is not for everybody. Would you tell a woman that can't conceive naturally that if she can't conceive than she's not ready to be a parent? No, because its none of your business. So why is it any different on the exit? Some women might have reasons for wanting a c section that under todays standards don't make it medically necessary but I believe they should have the right to choose.

Now...I definately understand the money aspect of it. I have no idea how it goes over there with taxpayers paying for it but if thats true then I understand that point of view but I heard from a different thread that it was cheaper since docs would be working between the hours of 9-5. But thats just what I've heard here. 

I personally would not elect to have a c section but I'd also support a woman's right to have one if she felt that was right for herself and her baby. *I wouldn't question her parenting skills or her devotion to the baby.*(this was the main point I was trying to make with my initial post) It's not like every woman who elects to have a c section would be doing it so that she didn't miss a sale at Macys or to have her baby share a birthday with her favorite move star. This is what I think some people imagine when they hear elective c-section but I don't believe this is the case.


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## love1boy1girl

Emleexx said:


> I experienced birth trauma with my first child & it was awful. I will never feel at peace with the way he entered the world & I will always struggle to accept that I have no idea of really what happened - as you can probably guess, I'm electing to have a c-section this time & although I may question my decision every now & then I know I couldn't possibly face labour again. I vowed never to have any more kids unless I could have a c-section!
> 
> I'm praying for a positive elective c-section story & will definitely come on here to post about it when it's all said & done!
> 
> In order to ensure that I would 100% be able to have an elective c-section my DH & I took out private health insurance. As far as I am aware you won't be guaranteed one in the public hospitals unless it's deemed medically necessary.
> 
> I do feel as though women should have the right to choose.

I am in the same position as you! After my first there is no way I even want to go into labor! I am so scared that something bad will happen! Where I go for my OB stuff they do not offer VBAC because it is a small hospital. My sisters were on my case that I needed to go elsewhere and have my baby so I could have a VBAC.....well easy said if you have not been in a tramatic situation and thought you were going to lose your baby! That being said I am not sure how I feel about someone with no risk just saying well I dont want to push out a baby so lets do a csection. I guess it is a personal choice.


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## ProudMum

catcatcat said:


> FirstLadyM said:
> 
> 
> If your not ready to give birth your not ready to be a parent? Wow! that was a little extreme don't you think?
> 
> Good for you...you have a high pain tolerance. That has nothing to do with parenting skills. :roll:
> 
> With my first i hadnt been a parent yet!! Then after giving birth naturally twice i have a 6yr old & 4 yr old and have proved myself to b a great parent.
> I now find myself unable to give birth again and im having an elective csection. Im more than ready to be a parent. Its a totally different thing not wanting to give birth due to fear is bugger all to do with being a parent xClick to expand...

I agree with this..... 

Im in the same situation and I support the new c section rule...


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## chuck

A few of you seem to be missing the point here.

No body here is saying a woman shouldn't have the right to choose how she births but only that they shouldn't be allowed to choose a riskier surgical option when there is no need may that be physical or psychological.

BUT saying that too many women are so fearful of birth with no prior experience they need to for want of a better word man up and deal with it.

Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off and deal with it, if you are going through a pregnancy you need to deal with the fact your body will never be the same. No not ruined beyond recognition but changed forever in the process of making an getting a human being out!

C'mon that's awesome you can get a human being out of you of course things will be different afterwards.

What should be the option is support and counselling, if you cannot deal with the fact you have to birth our baby you aren't really 100% ready for a baby, it's part of the process.


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## Maman

quite often the people with strong anti-section views are those who havent actually had one... and just as they accuse doctors of assuming things should go by a book, they do the same when spouting off about risks.

I chose an elcs this time. i had an emcs last time, and at 12 days over my due date, with no spontaneous second stage labour... i decided to stick to the elective surgery plan i had... Good job as well as he was a 10lb8oz baby. and i will fuck off, thankyou because Im REALLY REALLY GLAD i didnt birth him naturally- the surgeons told me theres no way it would have happened and that my vagina would have been seriously permanently damaged and syhoulder systocia would have occured- as it stands i got up and out of bed quicker then the natural birth mum next to me (and we were on transitional care, she had a smaller baby) i was out of hospital 24 hours after having him, 4 days later i feel fine!

having a baby full stop is risky. i think being prepared to take any of the risks involved to have a baby shows youre ready to have one, and it doesnt matter if you pick and choose which risks you take. 

the lungs not being compressed by the birth canal isnt a problem either. Babies generally posset any mucus, just to clear that point up. 

as for paying taxes... my husband is a higher taxpayer and we receive no help with anything, son goes to private nursery and we have never received any benefits... why shouldnt i have this procedure on the nhs? If i have another baby at any point it will also be an elcs, but i wouldnt even give the option of a vbac a second thought- my body grows big babies and doesnt do labour, and i dont want to go with a natural birth.


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## FirstLadyM

This is copied from another thread in 3rd trimester. Posted by *mummyruston*.

"If you read the below link it isnt as easy as just choosing a c-section - you have to prove you are seriously concerned about giving birth naturally and have to have pre-counselling before the decision is made...

and the official guidelines havent been published yet - only draft..."

https://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/10October/Pages/draft-nice-guidelines-elective-caesareans.aspx

Soooo I don't think these new changes would benefit women who just don't want to ruin their lady parts. I agree with you...choosing a csection for that reason is insane.:dohh:


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## NuKe

cherryglitter said:


> in my opinion, i think c-sections should only be for emergencies when needed.
> also in subsequent births where women have previously had a section, i do think VBAC's should be really encouraged.
> 
> unless of course it would affect a womans physical/mental health.

couldn't have put it better myself! :thumbup:


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## Laraa

I had a very traumatic birth that resulted in an emergency csection, im currently pregnant with my second and have been advised to have another c-section, which personally i dont see anything wrong with.

Ladies that are against sections have obviously had great births which is lucky for you. Just because youve had an easy time does not mean everybody else will also. Everybodys experience is unique and everybodys body is there own, people can do as they wish.

Im actually quite disgusted by some peoples inconsiderate comments on this thread. People need to get a grip.


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## chuck

Laraa said:


> I had a very traumatic birth that resulted in an emergency csection, im currently pregnant with my second and have been advised to have another c-section, which personally i dont see anything wrong with.
> 
> *Ladies that are against sections have obviously had great births which is lucky for you*. Just because youve had an easy time does not mean everybody else will also. Everybodys experience is unique and everybodys body is there own, people can do as they wish.
> 
> Im actually quite disgusted by some peoples inconsiderate comments on this thread. *People need to get a grip*.

I had a CS and I hate them (unessential ones that is), mine was a vile experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone...and no my life and my babies life were never in danger, I was awake, I wasn't sick, i didn't react badly to anything and I healed well.

It was still one of the most isolating, lonely, degrading thing that I have ever been forced to do. 

Yet a CS can be great...it's subjective. But a woman with no subjective experience of birth opting for a CS for No reason is madness.

As for getting a grip that's what a lot of people here are saying...if you NEED a CS you need one, they exist fir a good reason. However choosing to have a CS without good enough reason is stupid.


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## chuck

Maman said:


> I chose an elcs this time. i had an emcs last time, and at 12 days over my due date, with no spontaneous second stage labour... i decided to stick to the elective surgery plan i had... Good job as well as he was a 10lb8oz baby. and i will fuck off, thankyou because Im REALLY REALLY GLAD i didnt birth him naturally- the surgeons told me theres no way it would have happened and that my vagina would have been seriously permanently damaged and syhoulder systocia would have occured- as it stands i got up and out of bed quicker then the natural birth mum next to me (and we were on transitional care, she had a smaller baby) i was out of hospital 24 hours after having him, 4 days later i feel fine!

This makes me quite sad that you have no faith in your body. I'm assuming from your phrasing you were induced just because you were 12 days over an estimated due date and that induction ended in EMCS - because your body and baby weren't ready for labour. A normal pregnancy can last up to 42 weeks or just over with no problems so why so many are induced for going over an EDD I do not know.

The risk of shoulder dystocia is increased for a larger baby but many many many women birth big babies with no problem what so ever. I'd love to meet this surgeon that can see into the future and predict a dytocia/3rd degree tears/damaged baby! HE could be making a bloody fortune.

Sounds like scare mongering justification for surgery from here.

Just because ONCE you had a big baby and hadn't gone into labour by the time a text book wants you do doesn't mean your body doesn't labour.

If you are happy with your choice now you've had a CS then brilliant just make sure you plan your CS to make it yours...lots of places will conduct 'gentle CS' now i you ask.


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## missZOEEx

I had an emergency c-section after 20 hours of labor. (I'm sad to say that looking back I also feel as if it was unessential & could have been different.) I loved every second of labor & hated having a section. 
I wouldn't say I have a set opinion on this matter - but it does make me wonder why someone who has never been in labor or felt the pain of giving birth would elect to go through major abdominal surgery. I don't understand why someone who has never labored or given birth naturally would go off friends or relatives bad birth stories. Every person's story is different. 

I was that person who was freaking out about giving birth because of the stories, I wished at a few points that I could have a c-section. But I experienced labor & it was the most amazing experience of my life. Obviously I didnt see that coming, but people who elect planned c-sections will never know what it's like. I think its really sad.. 

But on another note - although women have been giving birth naturally for thousands of years - now that there is the knowledge & technology & whatever else, I guess the mother should have the right to choose. I guess I'm torn. :dohh: 

x


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## Carly2310

This is a topic I feel quite strongly about, I was also induced with my first and after 36 hours had to have an emcs. Mine was 100% necessary, there are no two ways about it both my and my baby were to quote the drs 'minutes from death' and it was TERRIFYING. My son wasn't breathing when he was born, he was blue and had the cord around his neck, I've been told by several drs that he would not have survived had I managed to complete my labour, and most probaby neither would I.
When I fell pregnant again I did so knowing I would chose an elcs this time, there was NO WAY I was putting myself back in that situation again. My first consultant told me no, that I would have to try a VBAC :nope: I was hysterical for days, in the end I moved hospitals and got what I wanted and what I feel I needed and had a much better, relaxed experience, no where near as 'traumatic' as my labour, had this rule been in place then I would have been able to opt for the section the second time without having to fight, causing untold amounts of undue stress to myself, that consultant appointment was the most traumatising thing to happen in my second pregnancy. I wish I'd had the right then to put my foot down with her. 
I think sections should be an option if a woman feels strongly enough and can demonstrate a clear understanding of the risks etc, if she knows what they are and has a genuine reason for wanting one, then why not? 
Sorry if it's a long one, just to add I didn't opt for my second c-sec because of 'lack of faith' in my body, I did what I felt I needed to do for the safety of my baby.


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## love1boy1girl

Carly2310 said:


> This is a topic I feel quite strongly about, I was also induced with my first and after 36 hours had to have an emcs. Mine was 100% necessary, there are no two ways about it both my and my baby were to quote the drs 'minutes from death' and it was TERRIFYING. My son wasn't breathing when he was born, he was blue and had the cord around his neck, I've been told by several drs that he would not have survived had I managed to complete my labour, and most probaby neither would I.
> When I fell pregnant again I did so knowing I would chose an elcs this time, there was NO WAY I was putting myself back in that situation again. My first consultant told me no, that I would have to try a VBAC :nope: I was hysterical for days, in the end I moved hospitals and got what I wanted and what I feel I needed and had a much better, relaxed experience, no where near as 'traumatic' as my labour, had this rule been in place then I would have been able to opt for the section the second time without having to fight, causing untold amounts of undue stress to myself, that consultant appointment was the most traumatising thing to happen in my second pregnancy. I wish I'd had the right then to put my foot down with her.
> I think sections should be an option if a woman feels strongly enough and can demonstrate a clear understanding of the risks etc, if she knows what they are and has a genuine reason for wanting one, then why not?
> Sorry if it's a long one, just to add I didn't opt for my second c-sec because of 'lack of faith' in my body, I did what I felt I needed to do for the safety of my baby.

I agree with you on hundred percent. My cousin has a sever disability due to the doctors now wanting to do a csection and him going with out oxygen for too long. If u ask him I wonder what he would say about it. I think there are alot if women on here that are making assumption with out medical knowlage. I personally had a tramatic labor ending in emergency c section. Yes I was induced but hello I was induced at 42 weeks and it was no longer good for my child to be in me. So to all the ladies that will judge me, until you walk in my shoes and go through what I did do not judge my choice note will I judge yours. That's all.


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## Carly2310

love1boy1girl said:


> Carly2310 said:
> 
> 
> This is a topic I feel quite strongly about, I was also induced with my first and after 36 hours had to have an emcs. Mine was 100% necessary, there are no two ways about it both my and my baby were to quote the drs 'minutes from death' and it was TERRIFYING. My son wasn't breathing when he was born, he was blue and had the cord around his neck, I've been told by several drs that he would not have survived had I managed to complete my labour, and most probaby neither would I.
> When I fell pregnant again I did so knowing I would chose an elcs this time, there was NO WAY I was putting myself back in that situation again. My first consultant told me no, that I would have to try a VBAC :nope: I was hysterical for days, in the end I moved hospitals and got what I wanted and what I feel I needed and had a much better, relaxed experience, no where near as 'traumatic' as my labour, had this rule been in place then I would have been able to opt for the section the second time without having to fight, causing untold amounts of undue stress to myself, that consultant appointment was the most traumatising thing to happen in my second pregnancy. I wish I'd had the right then to put my foot down with her.
> I think sections should be an option if a woman feels strongly enough and can demonstrate a clear understanding of the risks etc, if she knows what they are and has a genuine reason for wanting one, then why not?
> Sorry if it's a long one, just to add I didn't opt for my second c-sec because of 'lack of faith' in my body, I did what I felt I needed to do for the safety of my baby.
> 
> I agree with you on hundred percent. My cousin has a sever disability due to the doctors now wanting to do a csection and him going with out oxygen for too long. If u ask him I wonder what he would say about it. I think there are alot if women on here that are making assumption with out medical knowlage. I personally had a tramatic labor ending in emergency c section. Yes I was induced but hello I was induced at 42 weeks and it was no longer good for my child to be in me. So to all the ladies that will judge me, until you walk in my shoes and go through what I did do not judge my choice note will I judge yours. That's all.Click to expand...

Fortunately my little boy is fine but that nearly wasn't the case. I feel the same way, I don't judge anyone elses choices so what right do they have to judge mine, I was almost 42 weeks too so my induction was needed. Nice to know someone appreciates what you've been through :)


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## Maman

chuck said:


> Maman said:
> 
> 
> I chose an elcs this time. i had an emcs last time, and at 12 days over my due date, with no spontaneous second stage labour... i decided to stick to the elective surgery plan i had... Good job as well as he was a 10lb8oz baby. and i will fuck off, thankyou because Im REALLY REALLY GLAD i didnt birth him naturally- the surgeons told me theres no way it would have happened and that my vagina would have been seriously permanently damaged and syhoulder systocia would have occured- as it stands i got up and out of bed quicker then the natural birth mum next to me (and we were on transitional care, she had a smaller baby) i was out of hospital 24 hours after having him, 4 days later i feel fine!
> 
> This makes me quite sad that you have no faith in your body. I'm assuming from your phrasing you were induced just because you were 12 days over an estimated due date and that induction ended in EMCS - because your body and baby weren't ready for labour. A normal pregnancy can last up to 42 weeks or just over with no problems so why so many are induced for going over an EDD I do not know.
> 
> The risk of shoulder dystocia is increased for a larger baby but many many many women birth big babies with no problem what so ever. I'd love to meet this surgeon that can see into the future and predict a dytocia/3rd degree tears/damaged baby! HE could be making a bloody fortune.
> 
> Sounds like scare mongering justification for surgery from here.
> 
> Just because ONCE you had a big baby and hadn't gone into labour by the time a text book wants you do doesn't mean your body doesn't labour.
> 
> If you are happy with your choice now you've had a CS then brilliant just make sure you plan your CS to make it yours...lots of places will conduct 'gentle CS' now i you ask.Click to expand...

i think you have got confused, the elective section was after 12 days over, and givign my body a chance ;) The pain of this pregnancy was far far worse than the pain of the section too. for the last week i was struggling to move. my due date was fairly accurate as the conception date is 100% due to being medically assisted.

the first section, emergency, was because after 16 days over my due date, i decided to opt for an induction and i had a reaction to it. (no doctors pushed me in to anything so dont get confused!)

as for this section, it was calm, planned and i was happy to have it im glad i did. i trust the words of the surgeon that was peering in to my body over what youre saying (no offense!) the baby was huge, and im small. i think things going wrong were much more likely than things going right. he was able to tell me what the deal was because it was during the section, before baby was even weighed. 

as for no faith in my body.... my husband and i produce beautiful babies, im clearly good at growing them and ive done very very well recovering from two sections now, so i dont think i have a problem with faith. i think if youre anti section and class section as failure or a crap way to have a baby then you might class my opinion as lack of faith, but i assure you in my eyes i couldnt be prouder of my body and looking at some of the natural birth stories.... christ am i glad to have had two sections, and id choose another in an instant!


----------



## chuck

..like i said I was just going on some of your phrasing.

I'm glad you are happy with your choices and options.


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## mum2liam

im really against elective c-sections, unless its advised because of medical reasons or past vaginal birth problems.

i do think that as with any other chosen medical procedure, if a woman chooses to have a c-section then fair play, but comes out their own pocket!! im sure the NHS can put £800 per c-section money to better use!!!

being able to give birth is such an amazing thing to do "if you can" i sometimes feel that my hubbie is missing out on the experience because he will never know what its like to give birth!

with my 2 boys i had the best experience with labor, and i know not every woman does, so im not ignorant to this, but i just feel strongly that this is part and parcel of the whole process, yes its scary and the pain is out of this world, but i want my body to do what its made for!!

as for after pain, i guess for some its worse than others, in regards to both c-section and VB, with my first i tore pretty bad and could hardly walk for days, with my second i didnt tear and was up and fine the very same day.

xx


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## DLA

I'll say the same thing I said in a similar thread. Why are women so concerned with how other women give birth?? Giving birth is such a personal experience. I don't fault women who want c sections, even if it's not "medically necessary". People do things all the time that aren't medically necessary. And just because it may not seem "necessary" to you doesn't mean it's not legitimately necessary to someone else. No one should tell a women what to do with THEIR body and baby. I find the thought of home birth terrifying and would never in a million years even consider it but I totally respect women that want to do that and think they should get the birth want. I'm not sure why the same respect isn't returned when women choose what is considered to be a more "medicalized" birth? Yes there are risks to everything no matter what kind of birth you choose, but women differ in which types of risks they are or aren't comfortable. H

Have the birth that YOU want and respects other's decision to do the same. There's not right or wrong way :)


----------



## Carly2310

DLA said:


> I'll say the same thing I said in a similar thread. Why are women so concerned with how other women give birth?? Giving birth is such a personal experience. I don't fault women who want c sections, even if it's not "medically necessary". People do things all the time that aren't medically necessary. And just because it may not seem "necessary" to you doesn't mean it's not legitimately necessary to someone else. No one should tell a women what to do with THEIR body and baby. I find the thought of home birth terrifying and would never in a million years even consider it but I totally respect women that want to do that and think they should get the birth want. I'm not sure why the same respect isn't returned when women choose what is considered to be a more "medicalized" birth? Yes there are risks to everything no matter what kind of birth you choose, but women differ in which types of risks they are or aren't comfortable. H
> 
> Have the birth that YOU want and respects other's decision to do the same. There's not right or wrong way :)

Exactly


----------



## Maman

mum2liam said:


> im really against elective c-sections, unless its advised because of medical reasons or past vaginal birth problems.
> 
> i do think that as with any other chosen medical procedure, if a woman chooses to have a c-section then fair play, but comes out their own pocket!! im sure the NHS can put £800 per c-section money to better use!!!
> 
> being able to give birth is such an amazing thing to do "if you can" i sometimes feel that my hubbie is missing out on the experience because he will never know what its like to give birth!
> 
> with my 2 boys i had the best experience with labor, and i know not every woman does, so im not ignorant to this, but i just feel strongly that this is part and parcel of the whole process, yes its scary and the pain is out of this world, but i want my body to do what its made for!!
> 
> as for after pain, i guess for some its worse than others, in regards to both c-section and VB, with my first i tore pretty bad and could hardly walk for days, with my second i didnt tear and was up and fine the very same day.
> 
> xx

elective surgeries out of own pocket? what about higher taxpayers who have one or two children, by section- but people who dont work and have never worked who have 4 or 5 natural births?.... same cost, one had put in to the system- the other hasnt. 

and all elective surgeries out of own pocket? does that count breast reconstructions? for instance


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## kelzyboo

I think she means elective sections with no medical need at all, not all electives are without need, they are elective because they're planned in advance not always because they're chosen.

I don't think it should be an option without medical need (previous traumatic birth and mental health being medical needs too imo), they would never preform any other major surgery without a medical need so why will they preform a c-section without it? Its crazy and i do think people who just 'want one' should have to pay for it themselves or at least in part pay for it as you'd have to pay for a boob job yourself if there wasn't medical need for one. I know they're not the same but just a comparison, the NHS won't pay for me to have one because i don't 'need' one so why will they allow c-sections if they're not needed? x


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## mum2liam

kelzyboo said:


> I think she means elective sections with no medical need at all, not all electives are without need, they are elective because they're planned in advance not always because they're chosen.
> 
> I don't think it should be an option without medical need (previous traumatic birth and mental health being medical needs too imo), they would never preform any other major surgery without a medical need so why will they preform a c-section without it? Its crazy and i do think people who just 'want one' should have to pay for it themselves or at least in part pay for it as you'd have to pay for a boob job yourself if there wasn't medical need for one. I know they're not the same but just a comparison, the NHS won't pay for me to have one because i don't 'need' one so why will they allow c-sections if they're not needed? x


yes this is what i mean!!
im in no doubt if its needed for any reason suggested by medical profession.

xx


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## Arisa

I will say that there is alot more emphasis on mental health and maternal distress as a concern now. The old "buck up and get over it" attitude seems to be a thing of the past in most Midwives and OBs these days thank god!!!
I think mental health issues are very valid and are often a cause for medical intervention including C-sections especially if no other option is available and not all countries have alternative therapies and doulas either.


----------



## redstiletto

I'm lol'ing at some of these comments. So a woman chooses an elective c-section to save her lady parts. Or maybe it's because she had a traumatic vaginal birth or whatever. BIG F*CKING DEAL. It's her choice so leave her be. We all have a right to choose. It won't make her any less of a parent.


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## highhopes19

im having an elective c-section on friday...

the reason being i had a failed induction 2 weeks ago because of GD, in the end they told me i had no reason to be induced :growlmad:.... i was having contractions 1 min apart but yet all the gels failed :cry:.

the contractions were 1 min apart and i was litrally crawling on the floor in agony beging them to help me with pain relief, they refused to give me anything other than paraceetamol :cry:. because they said i wasnt in esablished labour... funny how they managed to let me have gas and air as i was in to much pain to be examined though :cry:. i had 5 days of this !!!

when it failed i sat in hospital for a further 2 days no doctor came to visit me the whole time i was in there.... they couldnt get hold of my consultant

the pain i was in and still am in is unimaginable it really is :cry:. ive had a terrible reaction to the gel and have been scarred internally which is now coveriing my cervix, i have a boil/absyss the size of a golf ball down below, never felt so ill and run down since leaving hospital tbh :cry::cry:.

the thought of going through the pain again caused me to have a panic attack :cry:. 

before this i was all up for a natural birth,, infact looking foward to the whole experience tbh :flower:. but since what happened i am petrified i really am, yeah im petrified of the c-section dont get me wrong i really am but nothing compared to the thought of a natural birth now which is really sad :cry:.

they told me i can have another induction so i can have a natural birth but i refused!!! and im pleased i have done... my whole pregnancy ive had no choice in anything including the labour.... so me refusing is the only choice ive made myself :flower:. my MW is 100% behind me on having a elective c-section after all thats happened in hospital :thumbup:.

just thought id share my reasoning for choosing a c-section :flower:


xxxx


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## kelzyboo

Its different in the US as you pay medical insurance, over here taxpayers have to pay for other peoples c-sections that aren't needed. The issue is it shouldn't really be an option unless theres a medical reason for it to be done it is major surgery and providing there are no complications or health concerns, it isn't safer for mum or baby.

And the people choosing it based on not wanting the pain of a natural birth (i don't mean drug free) are quite ill informed, it is the more painful option imo and i've done it both ways, i'd rather go natural 10 times than feel the pain i felt when the aneasthetic wore off after my section x


----------



## kelzyboo

You're experience sounds terrible, i'm sure i wouldn't want to try that again either! Good luck on friday xx


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## Mummyjohnson

I'm considering an elective c section, if I'm able to have one. -A long way off of course, assuming everything goes well this pregnancy.

When I had my daughter I had no urge/sense/feeling to push, so I was fully dilated for hours with baby not going anywhere, my contractions went from 1 minute apart, to stopping, so had to be re-started via drip, baby was in distress and born with the cord wrapped twice around her neck, after having an episiotomy for her to be delivered, because my lady area is small :s. 

I am prepared to hack any amount of pain for my children, but I'm scared to death of my babies heart rate dropping low next time through vaginal birth. I don't know if what happenned before, is enough to warrant a future c section from a medical point of view. -But to me, babies health is paramount and I really want a cs to in my mind, help eliminate risk of fetal distress through a bad vb. Personally I believe women should have option for c section, if there is evidential basis for concern of having a vb. 

I've been discussing this with other women, who give me text book responses of your next labour will be better for reasons like 'not being stressed', 'make sure you have your favourite foods in hospital bag', 'take some relaxation music' and other irritating things that will not help improve babies chances if their heart almost stops again. I'm a honest tax paying person, and really don't think I'm being unreasonable by asking once of the nhs for a ceserean section, which I'll have inadvertently paid for many times over.


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## kelzyboo

Without the new guidelines, its unlikely they'd allow a c-section, they don't even want me to have one and i've had a previous 5 months ago! Who knows what will happen with the new guidelines though, i think if you have a genuine reason to be concerned about a VB then it should be discussed at least, i think its still up to individual consultants to decide if they will do it or not but if you have real concerns that are causing you anxiety, then they should at least consider it as an option, mental health and anxiety should be taken seriously too xxx


----------



## Arisa

highhopes19 said:


> im having an elective c-section on friday...
> 
> the reason being i had a failed induction 2 weeks ago because of GD, in the end they told me i had no reason to be induced :growlmad:.... i was having contractions 1 min apart but yet all the gels failed :cry:.
> 
> the contractions were 1 min apart and i was litrally crawling on the floor in agony beging them to help me with pain relief, they refused to give me anything other than paraceetamol :cry:. because they said i wasnt in esablished labour... funny how they managed to let me have gas and air as i was in to much pain to be examined though :cry:. i had 5 days of this !!!
> 
> when it failed i sat in hospital for a further 2 days no doctor came to visit me the whole time i was in there.... they couldnt get hold of my consultant
> 
> the pain i was in and still am in is unimaginable it really is :cry:. ive had a terrible reaction to the gel and have been scarred internally which is now coveriing my cervix, i have a boil/absyss the size of a golf ball down below, never felt so ill and run down since leaving hospital tbh :cry::cry:.
> 
> the thought of going through the pain again caused me to have a panic attack :cry:.
> 
> before this i was all up for a natural birth,, infact looking foward to the whole experience tbh :flower:. but since what happened i am petrified i really am, yeah im petrified of the c-section dont get me wrong i really am but nothing compared to the thought of a natural birth now which is really sad :cry:.
> 
> they told me i can have another induction so i can have a natural birth but i refused!!! and im pleased i have done... my whole pregnancy ive had no choice in anything including the labour.... so me refusing is the only choice ive made myself :flower:. my MW is 100% behind me on having a elective c-section after all thats happened in hospital :thumbup:.
> 
> just thought id share my reasoning for choosing a c-section :flower:
> 
> 
> xxxx


:hugs: you poor thing, I understand completely why you would find the thought of a vaginal birth ten times worse with you having internal scarring covering your cervix and the boil down there. 
I have panic attacks when I think about both birth options but its a matter of weighing out which is mentally and physically better for you and no one can judge you for it
God bless, I am sure you will do fine as most Elective C sections have faster healing times than emergency ones :flower: :hugs: :hug:


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## MyTurnYet

chuck said:


> Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off .

A little harsh, don't you think? Why is it of such concern of yours how other women give birth? I don't really get that. :shrug:


----------



## kelzyboo

MyTurnYet said:


> chuck said:
> 
> 
> Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off .
> 
> A little harsh, don't you think? Why is it of such concern of yours how other women give birth? I don't really get that. :shrug:Click to expand...


I don't think its harsh at all, i happen to agree that its a terrible reason for major surgery, i don't get that reasoning at all :shrug:

If people are that concerned about the state of their 'area' then pregnancy isn't a good idea is it, your pelvic floor muscles are changed most during the pregnancy not the birth anyway as a result of the weight they have to carry plus don't we realise before we get pregnant that our body including that area will change forever?

C-sections are there to save lives, to provide an option when all others are exhausted not to keep your 'area' intact.


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## babyhopes2010

more for the tax payers to foot the bill for something unnessasary pfft!


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## MyTurnYet

kelzyboo said:


> MyTurnYet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chuck said:
> 
> 
> Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off .
> 
> A little harsh, don't you think? Why is it of such concern of yours how other women give birth? I don't really get that. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think its harsh at all, i happen to agree that its a terrible reason for major surgery, i don't get that reasoning at all :shrug:
> 
> If people are that concerned about the state of their 'area' then pregnancy isn't a good idea is it, your pelvic floor muscles are changed most during the pregnancy not the birth anyway as a result of the weight they have to carry plus don't we realise before we get pregnant that our body including that area will change forever?
> 
> C-sections are there to save lives, to provide an option when all others are exhausted not to keep your 'area' intact.Click to expand...

Oh no I mean telling her to f$ck off is harsh! No matter what your opinion is. I think that is offensive.


----------



## kelzyboo

MyTurnYet said:


> kelzyboo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MyTurnYet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chuck said:
> 
> 
> Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off .
> 
> A little harsh, don't you think? Why is it of such concern of yours how other women give birth? I don't really get that. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think its harsh at all, i happen to agree that its a terrible reason for major surgery, i don't get that reasoning at all :shrug:
> 
> If people are that concerned about the state of their 'area' then pregnancy isn't a good idea is it, your pelvic floor muscles are changed most during the pregnancy not the birth anyway as a result of the weight they have to carry plus don't we realise before we get pregnant that our body including that area will change forever?
> 
> C-sections are there to save lives, to provide an option when all others are exhausted not to keep your 'area' intact.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh no I mean telling her to f$ck off is harsh! No matter what your opinion is. I think that is offensive.Click to expand...


Sorry hun i thought you meant the statement was harsh, i wouldn't swear about it as its not needed, its just a topic that brings up a lot of 'feelings' and opinions, especially for someone who wasn't happy with her c-section, i don't think she meant it offensively, just like many people has very strong feelings about c-section's that aren't needed :flower:


----------



## Maman

babyhopes2010 said:


> more for the tax payers to foot the bill for something unnessasary pfft!

... what, as opposed to the people who've never worked and have multiple vaginal births? 

its not like vaginal births dont cost a lot. And what about all those silly women who turn up at the hospital for stupid reasons... that costs. I heard a woman say she was in the ward because she got out of breath walking up the stairs at 37 weeks pregnant the other day.... wonder how much that cost for them to tell her it is normal. 

so what if theres a cost difference? big deal, for me my husband pays his taxes and we use the nhs!


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## babyhopes2010

Maman: its called having an opinion LOL im allowed one!


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## Maman

never said you werent, just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning behind it ;)


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## kelzyboo

The flaw in that is that a vaginal birth is necsessary, once its in it has to come out right? Major surgery is never an option unless its needed, not for anything else so why is it for birth? It does cost a lot more for a section and if its unnecsessary then its money that would be better spent somewhere else, perhaps better childbirth education for pregnant women sounds good x


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## redstiletto

chuck said:


> Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off .

I am from the US so our medical system here is very different...not too familiar with how it is in the UK.

My OB will neither induce nor perform elective cesareans, but I know of many others in my medical group that will. Perhaps it is the culture/area that makes a difference. I live in the so-called "superficial" part of northern california and elective c-sections for the sole purpose of "saving the foof" is VERY common. If it is not covered by insurance, most of the women that opt for these surgeries can actually afford the cost. It is their money, therefore, their choice. 

Unfortunately, the risks to the fetus are very serious (respiratory problems, etc). I would like a c-section but I don't want my poor baby in the NICU all because I cared more about my "foof." I would rather wait and have all my children first, then get my tubes tied and go in for a vaginoplasty :-D


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## Emleexx

I think the fact that some women are forcing their opinion onto others is disgusting. It's absolutely fine to come on here & state ur belief but at the end of the day, we are all different & by telling someone to 'f*** off' you aren't really giving them any reason to change their mind. Would probably be a good idea to stick to the facts which are of course, that a c-section is major abdominal surgery & has many risks associated with it. 

As for those complaining that it costs more to have a c-section & it's tax payers money - that's all good & well but you have to pay taxes regardless so it's not as if u get the money back if one less person has a c-section - get over it! 

I'm having an elective c-section & in Australia some of it is funded by Medicare (Government) & the rest will be funded by my private health insurance which I have paid into for the last 2 years to allow me to have an elective. 

As I stated in a previous post, I'm doing this because of my traumatic birth experience but what is traumatic to me may not be traumatic for u so I don't think it's anyones place to judge.


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## violetsky

I think c-secs should ONLY be used as a last resort in an emergency. I honestly believe that they are stealing our womanhood from us. More and more women are afraid/unwilling to labour and birth naturally (without medication/interventions) and insist they have a *right* to avoid what is a natural part of having a baby!!!

The long and short of it in my opinion is that most c-secs could be avoided (obviously some are genuine emergencies and my heart goes to women who have to suffer that trauma and worry) and they give lots of risks to the baby that natural vaginal births don't, so I do honestly believe that if you elect to have one you are being selfish and putting your own fears/needs ahead of what is best for your baby.


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## Isobela

wow, i have just been given the devastating news that I am going to be induced due to becoming RH sensitized, I have experienced one previous drug free home birth of a ten pound boy (no tears no incontinence , doctors don't trust women's bodies . )and I am gutted my next baby wont have the natural entry to the world he deserves... you women who choose for convenience or out of fear to have c sections are crazy and selfish, and missing out on so much. pregnancy birth and motherhood is a journey divinely orchestrated ... by induction or c-section your baby misses out on vital hormonal developments, putting them at increased risk of developing feeding, bonding, you expose them to drugs.. blah blah blah.. so ignorant!!! not to mention an ugly scar!!! weird!!!!!!


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## babyhopes2010

Isobela said:


> wow, i have just been given the devastating news that I am going to be induced due to becoming RH sensitized, I have experienced one previous drug free home birth of a ten pound boy (no tears no incontinence , doctors don't trust women's bodies . )and I am gutted my next baby wont have the natural entry to the world he deserves... you women who choose for convenience or out of fear to have c sections are crazy and selfish, and missing out on so much. pregnancy birth and motherhood is a journey divinely orchestrated ... by induction or c-section your baby misses out on vital hormonal developments, putting them at increased risk of developing feeding, bonding, you expose them to drugs.. blah blah blah.. so ignorant!!! not to mention an ugly scar!!! weird!!!!!!

sorry you have to be induced :hugs:
wow 10lber they think mine will be its nice to hear that you had it drug and rip free.makes me feel lil better :hugs:



and as far as tax payer yes im entitield to an opinion along with everyone else.
hope about take this extra cost of unnesessary csections and plough the money into ivf for people that cant have kids and would be more then willing to try and push a baby out naturally!:dohh:


----------



## chuck

MyTurnYet said:


> kelzyboo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MyTurnYet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chuck said:
> 
> 
> Opting for risky major surgery because you're worried about your foof being different sorry but fuck off .
> 
> A little harsh, don't you think? Why is it of such concern of yours how other women give birth? I don't really get that. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think its harsh at all, i happen to agree that its a terrible reason for major surgery, i don't get that reasoning at all :shrug:
> 
> If people are that concerned about the state of their 'area' then pregnancy isn't a good idea is it, your pelvic floor muscles are changed most during the pregnancy not the birth anyway as a result of the weight they have to carry plus don't we realise before we get pregnant that our body including that area will change forever?
> 
> C-sections are there to save lives, to provide an option when all others are exhausted not to keep your 'area' intact.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh no I mean telling her to f$ck off is harsh! No matter what your opinion is. I think that is offensive.Click to expand...

Wooooothere ladies...I wasnt telling any 1 lady here to fuck off.....it was a statement of exasperation I mean seriously GET A FUCKING GRIP kind of statement.

Apologies if you dont lke the language but tough luck.

...and why is it a concern to me about how women give birth? 

Becasue it should be of major importance to any woman that all over this supposedly civillised advanced country women go uneducated and terrified of child birth they are lead by the nose though anunhelpful system that guides them down a path that they fully belive will help them and too often only hinders their experiences of labour and birth leading to hoards of women suffering birth trauma and wanting to do like we had been discussing major surgery rather than doing whatis normal safe and awesome.


----------



## chuck

Emleexx said:


> I think the fact that some women are forcing their opinion onto others is disgusting. It's absolutely fine to come on here & state ur belief but at the end of the day, we are all different & by telling someone to 'f*** off' you aren't really giving them any reason to change their mind. Would probably be a good idea to stick to the facts which are of course, that a c-section is major abdominal surgery & has many risks associated with it.

LOL I do love these soapboxes people are climbing on under the pretence of saying others are wrong for doing the same.

I'm not focing anything on any one merely stating an opinion.

If you bothered to read the posts I had made and looking at the context I was not telling a person to fuck off but the idea.


----------



## Emleexx

Chuck, I refer to your statement of vaginal birth being 'normal & awesome' - THAT IS YOUR OPINION, ask me & I would tell u there was nothing normal or awesome about it so whilst I appreciate your opinion & experience as I do with any other member on this site, your argument won't convince me to change my mind about having an elective c-section. The only thing that could've changed my mind would have been to have a 'normal & awesome' first birth experience.....


----------



## Carly2310

Emleexx said:


> Chuck, I refer to your statement of vaginal birth being 'normal & awesome' - THAT IS YOUR OPINION, ask me & I would tell u there was nothing normal or awesome about it so whilst I appreciate your opinion & experience as I do with any other member on this site, your argument won't convince me to change my mind about having an elective c-section. The only thing that could've changed my mind would have been to have a 'normal & awesome' first birth experience.....

There was nothing 'normal' or 'awesome' about my first birth experience either! But my elcs WAS an awesome experience! That's how I saw it anyway x


----------



## Emleexx

Thanks Carly, so lovely to hear positive comments in the lead up to my elective!!! X


----------



## Tiff

Chuck - I think you need to take a step back and figure out how to get your opinion across without resorting to swearing. You account is under review.


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## Carly2310

Emleexx said:


> Thanks Carly, so lovely to hear positive comments in the lead up to my elective!!! X

Honestly it was great, so relaxed and straightforward and SAFE, my baby got here safely and everything ran smoothly! It was so stress free that I'm not even nervous about going in for my third in december now, I've had moments when I've worried but ultimately I've thought to myself if it's as great as last time we're fine! Also my recovery was good too, had him Wednesday at 3.30pm Friday at 5pm I was shopping in asda!
Good luck with your section, hope it's as good an experience as mine was!
:thumbup: :flower:


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## catcatcat

Im having an elective csection -.got my date today :) things are changing already, progress i think.


----------



## chuck

Emleexx said:


> Chuck, I refer to your statement of vaginal birth being 'normal & awesome' - THAT IS YOUR OPINION, ask me & I would tell u there was nothing normal or awesome about it so whilst I appreciate your opinion & experience as I do with any other member on this site, your argument won't convince me to change my mind about having an elective c-section. The only thing that could've changed my mind would have been to have a 'normal & awesome' first birth experience.....

LOL vaginal birth is normal...thats FACT not opinion. 

I've never tried to change anyones mind about having a CS, VB, VBAC what ever.

I have been stating all the way through this now rather drawn out thread that ladies should be able to have a CS if they have a NEED whether that be physical or psychological, an no woman should be forced to birth anyway she genuinely cannot deal with...HOWEVER a CS should never be a first choice. Counselling, Physiotherapy or simply manning the fuck up can get many women through a perfectly NORMAL physical act - a vaginal birth. 

At no point have I said all births are awesome, i am working with the birth trauma association to set up local support groups in fact...I am all too aware of birth trauma. I have a 2 year old Son whose extraction from my body was the worst thing I have ever had the displeasure of being subjecte4d to. I still feel like he could be anyones and I have nightmares about what happened so don't go lecturing me on how births aren't alway normal and awesome...read the posts properly. 

I'm getting quite bored of having to repeat myself to women who cannot be bothered to read whats been said properly and not jump on their high horse and think I'[m attacking them because we have different views...oh and I'm one of the few who will stick up for them. 

On that note carry on your discussion ladies but i urge you to bother reading post properly.


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## navywag

personally, i would hate to have a section, but thats because i would be more scared of having an epidural/spinal block than i would be having vaginal.

i dont think people that havnt at least experienced labour should be able to pick a section just for the sake of it 
, but those who have had a taumatic birth,previous section or real fear of natural birth should be able to choose

i was lucky and my daughters birth was natural and actually enjoyable, maybe if the next one doesnt go too plan i mite end up considering it for my 3rd!

good luck to all ladies due to have their babys soon, be it vaginally or by c-section x


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## babyhopes2010

Im scared of childbirth,i think to some extent everyone is :wacko: i wouldnt have csection unless i had no choice on medical grounds.


Just to clarify!

o·pin·ion

Noun: 1.A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

2.The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.


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## ljo1984

I had a traumatic first birth it was everything I didn't want but that hasn't made me want to jump in for cs! I'm my view there for emergencies where there's no other option! I want to experience childbirth as it's intended by nature, yes I'm scared after what happened with Imogen but it's made me even more determined to do it my way this time. The thought of having surgery is far more scarier for me. I think offering cs is madness unless it is absolutely necessary and vb is not gonna work for whatever reason.
That's my opinion lol.


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## Chiclets

Starting this post to say that I haven't had time to read through this thread and I'm not sure I want to as these things can get a bit heated. 


Speaking from my experience, I would never want anyone to have the choice to have an elective c-section unless it was medically needed.

I have had both types of births and cannot imagine anyone electing to have a c-section. It was more than awful. :( My experiences with vag birth was 10 to none when it comes to comparison and I am thankful to have had such a good experience. I know not everyone gets to have that and I wish they could. I think the rates vary but I hear of so many cases where c-section could have been avoided medically even if the DRs would have put their patient first and let their bodies do their job, not rush them to fit their own personal schedule. No, not all DRs are like this obviously! :) But, for those that are, I dislike their methods of doctoring.

Yes, all my post is my opinion based on my experiences. So based on just my experiences and opinion, my answer to the original question is "No" it shouldn't be allowed for anything other than medical reasons.



> LOL vaginal birth is normal...thats FACT not opinion.



I was just scanning this page and this stood out to me.

I agree. Vaginal birth_ is _normal. That is how humans were made to give birth so it is what is normal. In the same breath, I'm thankful doctors are able to perform c-sections because many of us wouldn't even be here alive if they couldn't. Many of us would have lost babies in childbirth and died as well. So while I don't call a c-section a normal birth since that's not how our bodies were made to give birth, I'm also very very thankful we have doctors that can perform c-sections for those of us who need them.


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## Chiclets

> I want to experience childbirth as it's intended by nature, yes I'm scared after what happened with Imogen but it's made me even more determined to do it my way this time.

Trust your instincts! I know my doctor was constantly pushing the agenda on me and wanting me to get an epidural, stay on my back, and get a c-section and IF I did a vag birth, get cut as well. I stood my ground and was thankful it went much much smoother in the end. No epidural. No staying on my back-I got up whenever I wanted during labor. No c-section that time. And no getting cut. I healed much better without it. Labor went smoothly and the pain was much more manageable going with the flow of my body. Maybe it's not always best to trust our instincts but they've yet to fail me. :)


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## mrsf1234

Chiclets said:


> I agree. Vaginal birth_ is _normal. That is how humans were made to give birth so it is what is normal. In the same breath, I'm thankful doctors are able to perform c-sections because many of us wouldn't even be here alive if they couldn't. Many of us would have lost babies in childbirth and died as well. So while I don't call a c-section a normal birth since that's not how our bodies were made to give birth, I'm also very very thankful we have doctors that can perform c-sections for those of us who need them.

yep and so is having limbs amputated with no pain relief and cancer!! ok so thats taking it to the extreme, but saying women should have vaginal births as they are 'normal' is just rubbish. A lot of things used to be 'normal' till we discovered a better way for it.

I have never understood the Martyrdom of motherhood....that it somehow makes you less of a woman/mother/person if you dont bare the pain and everything that goes with a natural labour.

Give it 30 years and I think people will be horrified woman used to subject themselves to the horrors of natural labour!!!


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## ljo1984

mrsf1234 said:


> Chiclets said:
> 
> 
> I agree. Vaginal birth_ is _normal. That is how humans were made to give birth so it is what is normal. In the same breath, I'm thankful doctors are able to perform c-sections because many of us wouldn't even be here alive if they couldn't. Many of us would have lost babies in childbirth and died as well. So while I don't call a c-section a normal birth since that's not how our bodies were made to give birth, I'm also very very thankful we have doctors that can perform c-sections for those of us who need them.
> 
> yep and so is having limbs amputated with no pain relief and cancer!! ok so thats taking it to the extreme, but saying women should have vaginal births as they are 'normal' is just rubbish. A lot of things used to be 'normal' till we discovered a better way for it.
> 
> I have never understood the Martyrdom of motherhood....that it somehow makes you less of a woman/mother/person if you dont bare the pain and everything that goes with a natural labour.
> 
> *Give it 30 years and I think people will be horrified woman used to subject themselves to the horrors of natural labour!!![/*QUOTE]
> 
> thats a very sad veiw point! im sure there will still be just as many women still wanting to experience natural child birth! mine was far from natural with imogen and it something i want to experience in my life and its very important to me, hence why im staying clear of the hospital this time. im more horrified by what happened last time than i am worried about this time (by worried i mean the unknown as i dont know what transition feels like for example). i doubt it'll be the most fun thing i could think of doing but i'd say natural child birth is far from horrifying!!!Click to expand...


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## babyhopes2010

i had dramatic birth but would do it all again :)


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## Arisa

mrsf1234 said:


> Chiclets said:
> 
> 
> I agree. Vaginal birth_ is _normal. That is how humans were made to give birth so it is what is normal. In the same breath, I'm thankful doctors are able to perform c-sections because many of us wouldn't even be here alive if they couldn't. Many of us would have lost babies in childbirth and died as well. So while I don't call a c-section a normal birth since that's not how our bodies were made to give birth, I'm also very very thankful we have doctors that can perform c-sections for those of us who need them.
> 
> yep and so is having limbs amputated with no pain relief and cancer!! ok so thats taking it to the extreme, but saying women should have vaginal births as they are 'normal' is just rubbish. A lot of things used to be 'normal' till we discovered a better way for it.
> 
> I have never understood the Martyrdom of motherhood....that it somehow makes you less of a woman/mother/person if you dont bare the pain and everything that goes with a natural labour.
> 
> Give it 30 years and I think people will be horrified woman used to subject themselves to the horrors of natural labour!!!Click to expand...

I agree!!!

Mother does not mean MARTYR :growlmad::growlmad:
If its a matter of maternal or foetal distress why would you proceed with a "natural" birth? So you can say you did it? never mind if your baby or your own mental and physical health is at risk!!!

anyway after seeing my mum and cousin in horrifying pain and terror from labour even with epidural s, I am terrified of them:nope:


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## tiger

I had an absolutely horrific, traumatic and terrifying experience with my first, that ended in a crash c-section because my son died.
i was left traumatised for months and months afterwards, got PND, and PTST, recoiled and hated everyone because of the flashbacks. 
im CHOOSING to have an elective c-section this time around because im not so sure if i will be able to look after my son and my daughter if i was to have the same experience again.
I would rather choose to have an elective c-section than become an incompetent mother to my children due to the stress that could follow given a repeat situation.
My body, my baby, my choice.


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## Arisa

:hugs: for you tiger and TBH I do not think any woman on here would dispute your reasons for having an elective CS as its one of the reasons why C-sections are available, the health and safety of mum and bubs.
you are making a wise decision based on what happened last time and no one has the right to hold that against you

I am surprised to be honest at how many ladies on here are against C-sections. Before getting pregnant I thought there would be a lot more women pro choice of a c section VS vaginal birth


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## babyblog

Arisa said:


> :hugs: for you tiger and TBH I do not think any woman on here would dispute your reasons for having an elective CS as its one of the reasons why C-sections are available, the health and safety of mum and bubs.
> you are making a wise decision based on what happened last time and no one has the right to hold that against you
> 
> I am surprised to be honest at how many ladies on here are against C-sections. Before getting pregnant I thought there would be a lot more women pro choice of a c section VS vaginal birth

I have been surprised lately to see such strong anti c section views too.I understand many women wouldn't choose one for themselves but why so judgemental towards those who do choose to deliver like this.It doesn't really affect anybody else and it just adds to the feelings some women already have about their choices.I know I am making the right decision on how to deliver my own baby but I still feel the need to spring to my own defence when challenged/ questioned !


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## Carly2310

babyblog said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> :hugs: for you tiger and TBH I do not think any woman on here would dispute your reasons for having an elective CS as its one of the reasons why C-sections are available, the health and safety of mum and bubs.
> you are making a wise decision based on what happened last time and no one has the right to hold that against you
> 
> I am surprised to be honest at how many ladies on here are against C-sections. Before getting pregnant I thought there would be a lot more women pro choice of a c section VS vaginal birth
> 
> I have been surprised lately to see such string anti c section views too.I understand many women wouldn't choose one fro themselves but so judgemental towards those who do choose to deliver like this.It doesn't really affect anybody else and it just adds to the feelings some women already about their choices.I know I am making the right decision on how to deliver my own baby but I still feel the need to spring to my own defence when challenged/ questioned !Click to expand...

Exactly, I always think to myself, 'well why does it matter to these women how I deliver my babies?' but I feel compelled to jump to my own defence, even though I know for a fact I'm doing the right thing for me and my babies.
:flower:


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## tiger

just to clarify as i didnt in my post on the previous page.... my son is alive and well today ! my crash section was done just in time and he was resuscitated and we are very lucky ! 

i too dont understand how i bring my baby in to the world is of any concern to someone else ? i am choosing what is best for myself and my baby, i shouldnt need to justify my reasons to anyone , but for some reason, i feel the need


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## Carly2310

tiger said:


> just to clarify as i didnt in my post on the previous page.... my son is alive and well today ! my crash section was done just in time and he was resuscitated and we are very lucky !
> 
> i too dont understand how i bring my baby in to the world is of any concern to someone else ? i am choosing what is best for myself and my baby, i shouldnt need to justify my reasons to anyone , but for some reason, i feel the need

My son was born blue and not breathing, his heart was beating (slowly) so it wasn't quite as bad but he did need some resussitation (sorry about my spelling) and a night in the NICU, it was the scariest thing that ever happened to me so to a degree I know how you feel :) 
It makes no difference at all to anyone else how we choose to deliver, we're just doing what we have to to protect our babies.
x


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## babyblog

tiger said:


> just to clarify as i didnt in my post on the previous page.... my son is alive and well today ! my crash section was done just in time and he was resuscitated and we are very lucky !
> 
> i too dont understand how i bring my baby in to the world is of any concern to someone else ? i am choosing what is best for myself and my baby, i shouldnt need to justify my reasons to anyone , but for some reason, i feel the need

I'm glad to hear your son was ok in the end, I wasn't sure when I read your post but didn't like to ask :flower: I am sick of feeling the need to explain my reasoning to people, I always seem to get the "why on earth are you thinking of having a c section " look. And im tired of responding "because my son's heartbeat dropped so low he nearly died last time and why on earth would I risk my next child's life" .Next time I'm just gona tell them to mind their own business! X


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## mrsf1234

I think the recent girls on this thread have got it right...its not about villifying those who choice or have a c section, but its about choice. 

I feel very strongly that women should have the right to a c section. although i am actually heading towards the idea of a vaginal birth.....but i will defend anyones right to choose and not be made to feel less of a mother because of it.


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## babyhopes2010

dont know what all this csection buisness is about people have clearly got wrong end of the stick.you will not be able to have csection unless surgeon says yes.i was speaking to dr in labour ward and she says it wont be easy for women to have it!
there will be very strict guidelines and women who just want one cos they dont wanna push will be denied it.


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## ljo1984

babyhopes2010 said:


> dont know what all this csection buisness is about people have clearly got wrong end of the stick.you will not be able to have csection unless surgeon says yes.i was speaking to dr in labour ward and she says it wont be easy for women to have it!
> there will be very strict guidelines and women who just want one cos they dont wanna push will be denied it.

so basically its like it is already ha ha!! i was speaking to a mw when walking into work before i went on leave (i work in same wing as maternity) and she said it was all rubbish and pertrayed wrong in the news!


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