# Annoyed at people telling me I'll get an epidural!



## LizChase

Ranting here.. Every time I tell someone I'm not planning to have an epidural, they scoff and roll their eyes and tell me I'll change my mind. :growlmad: Umm, I really don't think so, rude-pants. I mean, this is my first so maybe I'm fooling myself, but I know it's going to hurt - I'm not stupid.. But I'd rather just deal with the pain then get an epidural, they scare the snot out of me! And having a baby is supposed to hurt! Personally, I'd rather do it naturally and be able to move and walk around instead of being paralyzed and stuck in bed. (No offense to people who get an epidural, I just think they're creepy.) It's really hard for me to not say something extremely rude in return when people do this. UGH.


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## Bex84

I had the same when I had my first LO. I hated the thought of having to have injection in spine. I didn't have epidural, just gas and air and one injection of meptid. You will be fine without one. The place I had lo didn't even offer it


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## tinymumma

Amen to that sister! A giant, f*** off needle in my spine? No thanks. Women have been having babies long, LONG before epidurals came along and they managed! Besides, labour doesn't last forever and it has been proven that being able to move and walk around shortens your labour. Impossible to do that when you're paralysed from the waist down! Besides, it can actually leave you permanently paralysed. You can't move when getting it done and if you go though a contraction while that needle is in your spine... Don't let that freak you out when you're actually in the room and considering one though! More chances of tearing as well. 
So, don't stress, I'm so with you. no one can tell you how you will handle it. Everyone is different.
My mother is convince I'll be asking for one too. She's told me that even if I ask for one she will tell the midwife that I can't have one. She said if I so much as make a noise, she will just laugh at me. Have decided that only OH and I will be in the room because, stuff that. I'll probably kill the woman :haha:


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## george83

I was the other way around when I had my first I was so scared of the thought of the pain I was adamant I was having any pain relief possible including an epidural. However I - luckily - had such a quick labour that I didn't have the chance for one and afterwards i was so proud of myself. When I had my second I did it again without any pain relief and trust me if I can do it then I'm sure you can. Good luck!


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## MrsButterfly

I was the same. Everyone thought I wouldn't handle labour and would have an epidural. but needles seriously freak me the hell out! As it was I didn't get the chance to have an epidural and did manage with just gas and air.

Basically though, ignore everyone and on the day do what works for you. Sod what anyone else thinks!


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## messica

I felt the same way when pregnant with my first, and it ticked me off when others would tell me I couldn't do things "naturally" as well....until I got full swing into it after being exhausted from coping with preterm labor for the better part of three months before delivery. I absolutely took the epidural and then demanded one for my second lol. 

I had/have no complications, back pain, paralysis....seriously :wacko: I pushed my babies out as "naturally" as anyone else did and no I wasn't on my back. I breastfed immediately after and my children were both born with top apgar scores despite being early. It was wonderful being in control, able to avoid any tearing at all. I actually ENJOYED labor and I have no shame or regrets any more than if I had gotten anesthesia having a root canal or my wisdom teeth out (would passing a kidney stone with no pain relief be considered "natural" too?). Back in the day people yanked and spat those suckers out with no pain relief. What was done medically ages ago is completely irrelevant this day and age. Enduring unnecessary pain is no badge of honor imo. To me it's just plain silly now that I've btdt myself. I can't believe I once sat up on such a high horse about it all. 

Bottom line, poo poo other peoples opinions of doubting you right now if that's how you feel (I understand and completely respect your drive) but please don't feel ANY shame if they end up being right. I'm all for women doing what every they want to in the delivery room with their own bodies, but it really irritates me when people set first time mom's up for feeling like failures if they can't or don't want to deliver without pain relief. 

As women where have our hearts gone? To support each other instead of judging and looking down on others who make choices contrary to our own? Where has this obsession come from, the comparisons, the thumbing our noses??

Do, or don't manage your pain. Deliver vaginally unassisted, assisted or via C-section. No one should care about anything other than the fact that at the end, you will be a mother! 

I wish you a healthy rest of your pregnancy and a healthy, happy you and baby NO MATTER how you ultimately deliver. It's a drop in the hat in regards to the joy a child will bring into the rest of your life and that should be the focus :flower:


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## messica

tinymumma said:


> Amen to that sister! A giant, f*** off needle in my spine? No thanks. Women have been having babies long, LONG before epidurals came along and they managed! Besides, labour doesn't last forever and it has been proven that being able to move and walk around shortens your labour. Impossible to do that when you're paralysed from the waist down! Besides, it can actually leave you permanently paralysed. You can't move when getting it done and if you go though a contraction while that needle is in your spine... Don't let that freak you out when you're actually in the room and considering one though! More chances of tearing as well.

You're misguided on so many points in your above :( 

It's not a giant needle. 

It doesn't take but a few seconds to insert the actual line, the rest is all prep (took maybe 10 minutes total?) The anesthesiologist obviously time's actual line placement between contractions. If you can hold still for 2 seconds, you can wiggle and writher all you want the rest of the time.

People managed limb amputations long before there was legitimate pain relief available for those too, do you think that should continue to be the norm simply because others endured without ages ago?

I was able to walk and change positions before delivery, and was able to walk myself to the bathroom about 20 minutes after I delivered placenta. The amount administered through an epidural line can vary tremendously literally at the click of a button and it wears off pretty quickly once it's turned off.

I had epidurals during the deliveries of both of my children. My labors were only 4 and 3.5 hours respectively (start to finish, not all was in hospital).

I was never once paralyzed. Merely semi-numbed. An epidural is *NOT* the same thing as a spinal. I could still feel plenty throughout every part of my body for the duration of my deliveries and I had complete control over that.

Yes there are risks but they are smaller than can usually be quantified. There are risks that accompany unmedicated delivery as well. Every decision has positives and negatives that should be fully researched before deciding what's best for a particular woman and her baby. 

The chances of tearing are actually FAR less with an epidural, because pushing is not as frantic or forceful. I pushed only a handful of times with both of mine. I was able to stop and breathe through contractions while delivering their heads to allow my perineum time to adjust to the stretch instead of having that compulsion to bear down with no control.
I didn't tear at all.


Those were the experiences of the vast majority of my friends and family members as well. That they shoved it in my face when I was expecting my first, after being brainwashed during birthing classes that pain relief would kill me or my child, seriously ticked me off. I was more ashamed at my arrogance than anything else when the experience didn't prove to be anything my instructors had convinced me of. I do remember apologizing to many admitting I was wrong to be so judgmental in thinking doing it without pain relief would somehow make me so much better of a woman than they were. I'm beyond tired of the misinformation and the divide it creates amongst us all.


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## Bex84

Theres nothing wrong with an epidural so i hope my post didnt come across as that. I was at midwife unit where couldent have epiduaral and i was slightly freeked out about the needle as a wimp lol. I progressed quickly anyway and did part in water. Whatever way you give birth doesent mean a thing. I got by ok on gas and air. I really wanted to be at that midwife unit so it worked for me. There is no shame in asking for one just as no shame not getting one. I dont think any if my mummy friends in rl even know what my birth experience was except fairly quick. I never mentioned what pain relief i had


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## Shadowy Lady

OP - I had the same experience as you when I was pregnant. In fact I posted a thread similar to yours here. I'm in Canada and here most ppl do get epidurals. So everyone around me told me I would get it and told me I was being a "martyr"...which really wasn't the case. I had done my research and wanted to try without. People will give you advice when not needed now and they will continue it for long after you have your baby. Just put yourself, your baby and your OH at priority and don't pay any mind to others' opinion (especially when not asked).

I was able to go completely pain free with my birth. I had a 4 hour labour, no epidural, no tear/graze, healthy baby and very fast recovery. I thought birth was painful but manageable, I probably would have got the epidural if my labour was much longer though but I was just lucky and I had a supportive husband and midwife by me. I would say have an open mind and perhaps talk to others who have had natural births.

Messica - while I'm not anti-epidural, the chances of tearing is actually higher with it because you can't feel the same pushing force. This is what they told us at the pre-natal class based on the stats at 3 hospitals in my city (where 80% of women do get the pidural). Typically, your chances of more intervensions go up with the epidural, and that includes use of forcep, vacuum and emergency C-section. It doesn't make epidural the big, bad evil...but these are facts to consider fo everyone when thinking about their birth.


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## kaylacrouch93

I was just like you when i was pregnant with my 1st.. People used to make me sooo mad saying that i couldn't handle the pain.. Then i got the news i had to be induced and that meant not being able to get out of bed and laying on my back.. The Pain was rough. and i did get a epidural in the end but it wasn't cause i couldn't handle the pain it was cause laying in bed straped down like i was seemed to make everything worse. Don't let anybody tell you what your gonna do in labor but then again don't be like i will not get pain killers either cause you never know..


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## fxmummyduck

Op, Everyone said the same to me too, and I actually found it very hurtful that they would doubt me and say, why would you want to do that?... um ALL sorts of reasons actually and its my choice! I used to work as a midwife and I would see all the negatives of epidural And didnt notice the positives as they just freaked me out...id have considered it braver in my shoes to have one than not. Ultimately it's no one else's decision except yours, keep an open mind and when the time comes go with the flow.

Im a real wimp with pain but labour felt different, it wasnt a broken bone I knew nothing was wrong so I accepted the pain, it wouldn't last and contractions peak and subside.i managed a 15 hour labour with gas and air in the pool.

If you believe you can do it then I believe you can do it!


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## LizChase

Thanks for the replies all! I know that if you get induced, the medication for that makes the pain a lot worse, so I'm hoping I'm not faced with that. And there are varying levels of the medicine, so you can only get a partial epidural, or a weak one, or however would be best to word it :) to take the edge off, while still being able to move around a bit. If I do decide to get one, that's what I would do for sure. Epidurals are totally viable options, I don't have anything against them on principle, and I'm certainly not looking down on anyone if it their choice to get one. Personally I am just not someone who takes a lot of pain medication for anything, I usually won't even take Tylenol when I have a headache, I just don't think it's necessary. Plus anesthesia and pain medications often make me really super nauseous, so another reason I'm wanting to avoid it. But like I said I could be totally fooling myself and crying for one as soon as I get in there! And Messica, I will take your advice and try not to feel like I failed if I do, but it would be hard for me to not feel that way a little bit. :(


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## messica

LizChase said:


> Thanks for the replies all! I know that if you get induced, the medication for that makes the pain a lot worse, so I'm hoping I'm not faced with that. And there are varying levels of the medicine, so you can only get a partial epidural, or a weak one, or however would be best to word it :) to take the edge off, while still being able to move around a bit. If I do decide to get one, that's what I would do for sure. Epidurals are totally viable options, I don't have anything against them on principle, and I'm certainly not looking down on anyone if it their choice to get one. Personally I am just not someone who takes a lot of pain medication for anything, I usually won't even take Tylenol when I have a headache, I just don't think it's necessary. Plus anesthesia and pain medications often make me really super nauseous, so another reason I'm wanting to avoid it. But like I said I could be totally fooling myself and crying for one as soon as I get in there! And Messica, I will take your advice and try not to feel like I failed if I do, but it would be hard for me to not feel that way a little bit. :(


I know EXACTLY what you mean with your last sentence, and with your entire post really.

A funny story about your mention of Tylenol - I was started on pitosin while I was sitting on a birthing ball. That caused some REALLY big ones started to roll (I'm not sure why everyone thinks with pitosin you're stuck in bed because I was not). I asked a nurse then for Tylenol then thinking that would be a reasonable place to start for pain management. I too never even take otc medications so I really thought it would help! She giggled and said it wouldn't and I remember getting a bit snarky at her for that lol. My birthing class instructor was ADAMANET that any pain medication was an outright failure. That I would be failing myself if I took anything, and would be putting my baby in direct danger, so that's what I believed and it was hard enough to even ask for that. The midwife that worked with my OB came in shortly after and finally turned some of that outright damage to my confidence around. She was supportive of ME. Not someone else's opinion of success. 

I really believe societies extremist brainwashing....you'll be less of a woman if you don't - do this or that during pregnancy, birth "naturally" and without any interventions, extended breastfeed, attachment parent, stay home with your child etc. - is exactly why so many women end up psychologically damaged while having children. You hear about women just losing it under the weight of stress during pregnancy, more and more women popping up in therapy because they felt traumatized when things didn't go exactly as planned in the delivery room (seriously, there are huge support groups for that), post partum depression in record numbers these days.....the outside pressure and judgment, from other women and educators who should actually understand how damaging that is better than anyone else, is truly harming us all!

You just go in with as much information as you can, do the best that you can, keep an open mind, and don't worry a stitch about what any other insurance/NHS would or wouldn't provide a laboring mother or what any other woman could/couldn't or did/didn't want to do. You've created life and you're doing best by your baby regardless, there's no failure in that. Period.


I found great relief when both my delivery nurse and midwife confirmed to me as I was bawling, immersed in fear of failing my original birth plan, that the vast majority of deliveries (more than 90%) entailed some sort of pain relief. I nursed both my kids with significant compilations and struggles for the same reasons....I was more afraid of judgment from my peers if I quit, than being able to clearly see how much it hurt me emotionally and physically. That's ridiculous!


(I did get an iv pain med and some sort of "gas" (before settling on the epidural) that made me toss my cookies the second it hit my blood stream. If you're worried about being made nauseous I would just be aware that that's a common side effect. Not at all trying to scare you, and all women respond to those things differently, but I do wish someone would have clued me in on that point first!)


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## Waiting4bb

The bottom line is it is your choice alone whatever you decide to do. People will always say rude things and think they know better. We shouldn't judge what others decide to do especially when it comes to something like natural birthing or taking an epidural. Women go through enough in labor. We don't need others unwanted "advice!" Hope you get a beautiful natural birth <3


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## Bex84

never feel like a failure, your child wont look back on their birth in 20 years and say my mum was a bad mum as she had this type of pain relief. I kept my birth plan open as I didn't know what to expect. I wouldn't have the option of epidural where I had lo and will hopefully have this one as no doctors and just midwife led. Our birth class was very much based around positions to help with comfort and stuff you can do to help pain but they weren't anti pain relief. One midwife did mention that epidurals can slow down everything but I have no idea if that's true. I think its hard to know how to feel when its your first baby and I had many people telling me how awful it was (just what you need to hear when your pregnant lol) I found the pain manageable and to be honest as soon as I held my baby what you just went through for me kind of was put to one side. Just remember whatever happens your not a failure and everyone has a different experience


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## bcos21

I used to answer the question honestly, that I was not interested in pain meds and id get the whole "oh sure... Wait and see!" That's exactly what I did, natural birth no meds and it was an amazing day. Besides the point, I.got tired of these silly conversations so I just went with "pain, what Pain? I thought the stork brought the baby yes?" It usually lightened things up.


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## Eleanor ace

Ugh I got this a lot too. When people asked what pain relief I wanted (which really isn't any of their usiness anyway) and I said that I hoped not to get en epidural but would if I needed I got a lot of eye rolls and people telling me I'd soon change my mind. Which may well have happened- I was going into it with an open mind but my intention and hope was not to have an epidural. The fact that women felt the need to try and scare me or cause me to doubt my ability to cope without an epidural really rubbed me the wrong way because its the last thing you need when you're trying to be positive and excited about labour. I didn't get an epidural but after delivering my son I had a spinal as I got stitched in theatre. One "friend", on hearing this, was sooo smug and said "see! You soon changed your tune and shouted for the strongest pain relief you could get!" When I explained that my son was already an hour old at this point and that the spinal was required for surgery she still wanted to rub my nose in it! Sigh.


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## HopefulPony

I wasn't keen to have an epidural when I was pregnant and I wanted a natural water birth, but in the end I was induced due to high BP and developed pitocin-induced pre-eclampsia, and part of the treatment for that is an epidural so I had to have one :( it didn't work though and by the time they re did it I was 8cm dilated and screaming because I was on my back and baby was back to back :( and the second one did do spinal damage which I had repaired 48 hours after birth with a third needle in the spine. I really, really hope I can do it next time with just gas and air!


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## BunnyN

I felt the same as you. I was quite sure (as long as there were no other complications) I did not want an epidural or other drugs and I didn't change my mind during labour.

Where I am birth is quite medicalized and I knew that wasn't what I wanted. I was not confident about getting the support I wanted at the local hospital so we decided to inquire at a private hospital. I was quite annoyed by the patronizing comments and disbelief we met with from hospital staff. They started by saying they supported a natural birth but I soon realized their idea of a natural birth was to be laying on my back with a drip and strapped to a machine until I decided I couldn't cope any more and took the epi! When my husband asked for the price of the birth without an epidural the receptionist practically snorted and said "oh no, she'll want that". In the end we hired a independent MW and I had a lovely drug free HB

I really believe that the reason that so many women who plan not to have an epidural or pain relief end up changing their birth plan is because they are given no support. When no one really thought it it was an option in the first place it doesn't really give you a real chance to succeed. I don't think it makes you any less of a women if you do have an epidural or change your birth plans, under some circumstances I would too. Pain relief options are a great tool when they are needed but I think for the majority of relatively straightforward births most women who really want to can cope fine without an epi if they are given the right support.


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## Misscalais

I've had two natural births with just some gas and air. While labour hurt ( 41 hours and 22 hours ) I did it without needing an epidural. But most people I know do it without one, so no one ever said to me you'd never be able to do it without one. I'd be really cross if someone did say that to me. Looking forward to doing it again if I decide I need pain relief at the time ill go for it but I prefer to go as natural as possible :) it can be done.


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## MindUtopia

I think it's annoying for anyone to think they know your needs and preferences better than you do, even when they think they've 'done it before'. I had a completely natural birth for my first baby - a home birth actually - not even gas and air (it was there, but never needed it and never asked for it). I didn't even use a birth pool for pain relief. Just a TENS, lots of walking around and up and down my stairs, and I practiced natal hypnotherapy. It was fantastic. Birth IS intense and it's hard work, but I didn't find it overly or unmanageably painful (I think the fact I practiced hypnotherapy to prepare was really key and I highly recommend it!). It's not the kind of pain like when you break a bone or have a horrible injury. It's sorta like the discomfort when you have a bad stomach bug and have to do a lot of uncomfortable pooing and it's tiring on your muscles. But it wasn't so painful that I would have wanted half my body to be numb. In fact, being able to be upright and walk around was awesome. I think it's silly when people think that just because you're a FTM that you don't know what you're capable of and that you don't know your body. I loved having a natural birth and I'm actually looking forward to doing it again in a few years. Just ignore them and trust yourself. You know YOU better than they do.


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## BunnyN

Another thing about not having an epidural that I never really thought about until I went through it is how much you can feel besides the pain. I found it utterly amazing to feel the whole process of the birth. I could feel everything! That might sound like a bad thing but for me at least it wasn't. It's amazing to feel the labour progress and the baby as it's being born. I was on a total high afterward and couldn't wait to go through the whole thing again! It was hard work and of course it was painful but for me the pain was only part of the experience, and not the biggest part. Like anyone I worry about what can go wrong but if I get pregnant again I will actually be looking forward to labour.


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## tinkerbelle93

It's silly really because so many people happily manage without an epidural so why do people automatically say you'll definitely need one?! Obviously there is a chance you might change your mind, but there is no reason for anyone to tell you that you'll definitely be having one. 

Luckily I never got this during pregnancy, to be honest nobody really asked me about what I was hoping or expecting. However, if you find it annoying, I just wouldn't discuss your plans with anyone. It's really nobody's business I'd just say something along the lines of 'I'm going to just wait and see' if anyone asks anything which will spare the comments!


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## BunnyN

tinkerbelle93 said:


> It's silly really because so many people happily manage without an epidural so why do people automatically say you'll definitely need one?! Obviously there is a chance you might change your mind, but there is no reason for anyone to tell you that you'll definitely be having one.
> 
> Luckily I never got this during pregnancy, to be honest nobody really asked me about what I was hoping or expecting. However, if you find it annoying, I just wouldn't discuss your plans with anyone. It's really nobody's business I'd just say something along the lines of 'I'm going to just wait and see' if anyone asks anything which will spare the comments!

I think epidurals are not as overused in the uk as in some countries. Some places it's just kind of assumed you'll have one unless you make a big deal about not wanting it.


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## tinkerbelle93

BunnyN said:


> tinkerbelle93 said:
> 
> 
> It's silly really because so many people happily manage without an epidural so why do people automatically say you'll definitely need one?! Obviously there is a chance you might change your mind, but there is no reason for anyone to tell you that you'll definitely be having one.
> 
> Luckily I never got this during pregnancy, to be honest nobody really asked me about what I was hoping or expecting. However, if you find it annoying, I just wouldn't discuss your plans with anyone. It's really nobody's business I'd just say something along the lines of 'I'm going to just wait and see' if anyone asks anything which will spare the comments!
> 
> I think epidurals are not as overused in the uk as in some countries. Some places it's just kind of assumed you'll have one unless you make a big deal about not wanting it.Click to expand...

I've never really thought about that, am I right in saying the USA don't really offer gas and air either? So it's kind of one way or the other with no medium. I have no idea what the stats for epidurals are here in the UK, but from the women I know who have given birth it seems to be a 50/50 divide.


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## Shadowy Lady

here in Canada we don't have gas and air either. So either you get an epidural or you use a tub/shower or a ball or something. Epidural usage rate here is not as high as the US but def most ppl go the epidural route. 

It is common for ppl to say those of us who aren't getting an epi "are being martyrs" which is really irritating to hear. It's so odd to see women see other women's birth as being their businesses and offering non-constructive criticism. When I was pregnant, I was even told by some men that I would be screaming for an epiural :/ ya because they have given birth!


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## LizChase

Yeah, we don't get gas and air in US, and I'm pretty sure they won't do any kind of medicated pain relief other than an epidural because they don't want the baby exposed to it. Not sure on that though. But it's very uncommon in the US for someone to NOT get one, it's pretty much expected you will. And even if you say no, I've heard the nurses and doctors don't really believe you and ask you over and over. Granted, this is my first so all that I just said is what I've heard, not what I've experienced. :)


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## messica

I was thinking about this last night.....I do wonder if the differences come about because of what's available health care wise. 

I've heard many women on the board say they don't have access to the care they want or even need on a NHS. They say they often don't get the doctors, monitoring and testing they need and want, and even on this thread have said epidurals weren't even available where they delivered. 

How is removing choices empowering a woman? Or supporting her? 

If you remove the choice from the mother from country to country, of course the numbers will be different from country to country.

In the US you do have a choice about everything regarding your care. You are entitled to be educated about your care, tests and all procedures. No one tells you no, and if you don't like what one facility has to offer you simply go to another. As long as you're aware that it's your personal responsibility to advocate for yourself, you have complete control over your birthing experience. 


I do think that if women in other countries had more say about their own care, and were not just left with whatever their governing forces told them was available, the numbers would be far more comparable. It does seem NHS is sort of fear mongering in many ways. Of course they're going to say epi's are incredibly dangerous, advise against them and in many cases not even offer them.....but is that because they really are dangerous and unnecessary or simply because they're just trying to save a buck at your expense? They have every reason to put incorrect information out there, which is exactly why I prefer a privatized system. How can you trust the word of someone who has a vested interest in NOT providing you care if they don't have to?


Again, it's of no consequence to me what other women do. It bothers me immensely however when others tout a lack of choice as support for a "natural" delivery. That's not support, that's control and suppression. Very young women in third world countries are often forced to deliver at home with no prenatal care and in filthy conditions, that doesn't mean anyone is supporting her through a natural pregnancy and birth.....it means she simply didn't have a choice. True support is offering every option, and being there for a woman no matter what she chooses :thumbup:



As an aside, I think it's even weirder when women try to tell others that labor doesn't hurt. Or that it hurts but it's not that bad. If that was your personal experience, great. But pain tolerances vary greatly from human being to human being. Having a higher pain tolerance is an awesome gift, but not one that should be thrown in the face of others who don't have the same advantage. People stabbed, shot and diseased can slide through with basic care too, that doesn't mean it should become the standard for all.


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## messica

LizChase said:


> Yeah, we don't get gas and air in US, and I'm pretty sure they won't do any kind of medicated pain relief other than an epidural because they don't want the baby exposed to it. Not sure on that though. But it's very uncommon in the US for someone to NOT get one, it's pretty much expected you will. And even if you say no, I've heard the nurses and doctors don't really believe you and ask you over and over. Granted, this is my first so all that I just said is what I've heard, not what I've experienced. :)


Hospital in my area 10 and 11 years ago when I delivered really pushed personal advocacy and certainly do the same where I'm at now too. 

Yes, many women get epi's but that's because it doesn't make sense for most not to now days with how safe they've become. 

The childbirth classes I took sponsored by my delivering hospital really pushed for little to no intervention. They took the time to really educate moms to be on ALL the options, but emphasized "natural" as best. I definitely felt pressure to expose my birthing child to as little as possible, but I was grateful to be able to go into L&D completely aware of all that was available to me :thumbup:


I didn't have gas or air that I'm aware of. I have no idea what it is or what it does for a person. I did get an injection of "loopy juice" (I want to call it Stadol?) through my IV that made me want to throw up and eventually go for the epi, and just a smidge of oxygen when my uterus wasn't clamping down after birth but that's it. 

My labor nurse and midwife did disclose that the vast majority of women do end up getting epidurals, but that was only brought up after I'd made my decision to move forward and to calm my nerves about the safety of them after the class instructor showed me videos of lethargic newborns. It definitely helped to hear that there were so sooooo many women who utilized them, and that the vast majority of mothers and babies suffered no complications as a result. It truly made sense, that if one goes so far as to say *MOST* women in the US have them, then they've got to be safe or it wouldn't be such common practice.


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## BunnyN

messica said:


> I was thinking about this last night.....I do wonder if the differences come about because of what's available health care wise.
> 
> I've heard many women on the board say they don't have access to the care they want or even need on a NHS. They say they often don't get the doctors, monitoring and testing they need and want, and even on this thread have said epidurals weren't even available where they delivered.
> 
> How is removing choices empowering a woman? Or supporting her?
> 
> If you remove the choice from the mother from country to country, of course the numbers will be different from country to country.
> 
> In the US you do have a choice about everything regarding your care. You are entitled to be educated about your care, tests and all procedures. No one tells you no, and if you don't like what one facility has to offer you simply go to another. As long as you're aware that it's your personal responsibility to advocate for yourself, you have complete control over your birthing experience.
> 
> 
> I do think that if women in other countries had more say about their own care, and were not just left with whatever their governing forces told them was available, the numbers would be far more comparable. It does seem NHS is sort of fear mongering in many ways. Of course they're going to say epi's are incredibly dangerous, advise against them and in many cases not even offer them.....but is that because they really are dangerous and unnecessary or simply because they're just trying to save a buck at your expense? They have every reason to put incorrect information out there, which is exactly why I prefer a privatized system. How can you trust the word of someone who has a vested interest in NOT providing you care if they don't have to?
> 
> 
> Again, it's of no consequence to me what other women do. It bothers me immensely however when others tout a lack of choice as support for a "natural" delivery. That's not support, that's control and suppression. Very young women in third world countries are often forced to deliver at home with no prenatal care and in filthy conditions, that doesn't mean anyone is supporting her through a natural pregnancy and birth.....it means she simply didn't have a choice. True support is offering every option, and being there for a woman no matter what she chooses :thumbup:
> 
> As an aside, I think it's even weirder when women try to tell others that labor doesn't hurt. Or that it hurts but it's not that bad. If that was your personal experience, great. But pain tolerances vary greatly from human being to human being. Having a higher pain tolerance is an awesome gift, but not one that should be thrown in the face of others who don't have the same advantage. People stabbed, shot and diseased can slide through with basic care too, that doesn't mean it should become the standard for all.

I do think it's very wrong to make a woman feel like she 'not doing it right' if she is in a lot of pain or finds it hard cope with. We are all are different. Our minds, bodies, babies and labour's are all different. I agree options should be available to everyone. Ideally women everywhere should have options available and it is sad when proper care is not available. It also sad when a woman is not supported in her choices. Having to fight to for your wishes against the 'better' judgement of medical staff while going through labour isn't really much of a choice either. Having the right to choose doesn't always mean a lot when you are being put under an extreme amount of pressure. I had a wonderful birth experience but I had to go against the opinion of the medical profession and society where I live to get it. I am not a person who likes go against convention or make a fuss so were hard choices for me to make. In the end we were very happy with our choices we made but it makes me sad that other women often do not even realise that they do have choices. 

In the US medical insurance can also complicate things. Many women feel they have no choice but to go against their birth plans in fear of loosing their insurance coverage.


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## tinkerbelle93

Shadowy Lady said:


> here in Canada we don't have gas and air either. So either you get an epidural or you use a tub/shower or a ball or something. Epidural usage rate here is not as high as the US but def most ppl go the epidural route.
> 
> It is common for ppl to say those of us who aren't getting an epi "are being martyrs" which is really irritating to hear. It's so odd to see women see other women's birth as being their businesses and offering non-constructive criticism. When I was pregnant, I was even told by some men that I would be screaming for an epiural :/ ya because they have given birth!

Why is there no option of gas and air in some countries? Most of the women I know who didn't have epidurals found the gas and air an essential to get through labour pains. I laboured without an epidural until 8cm (when I needed emergency forceps therefore spinal block) and would have asked for one much sooner if it wasn't for the gas and air taking the edge off the pain. Gas and air is pretty low-risk for mother and baby isn't it as well?


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## tinkerbelle93

messica said:


> I was thinking about this last night.....I do wonder if the differences come about because of what's available health care wise.
> 
> I've heard many women on the board say they don't have access to the care they want or even need on a NHS. They say they often don't get the doctors, monitoring and testing they need and want, and even on this thread have said epidurals weren't even available where they delivered.
> 
> How is removing choices empowering a woman? Or supporting her?
> 
> If you remove the choice from the mother from country to country, of course the numbers will be different from country to country.
> 
> In the US you do have a choice about everything regarding your care. You are entitled to be educated about your care, tests and all procedures. No one tells you no, and if you don't like what one facility has to offer you simply go to another. As long as you're aware that it's your personal responsibility to advocate for yourself, you have complete control over your birthing experience.
> 
> 
> I do think that if women in other countries had more say about their own care, and were not just left with whatever their governing forces told them was available, the numbers would be far more comparable. It does seem NHS is sort of fear mongering in many ways. Of course they're going to say epi's are incredibly dangerous, advise against them and in many cases not even offer them.....but is that because they really are dangerous and unnecessary or simply because they're just trying to save a buck at your expense? They have every reason to put incorrect information out there, which is exactly why I prefer a privatized system. How can you trust the word of someone who has a vested interest in NOT providing you care if they don't have to?

I'm not sure about this, I gave birth in the UK under the NHS and was never encouraged at any point to not have an epidural or told anything negative about them. In fact at my midwife appointment during pregnancy I mentioned I have a low pain threshold and the midwife advised having one at 3cm to cope better. The choice was also there for me throughout labour to have one, and everyone I know who wanted an epidural had no problem at all requesting one and having it. As far as I'm aware epidurals are always available in NHS hospitals, they're only unavailable if the mother has chosen to birth in a birth centre or have a home-birth, in which case she's made that choice beforehand.


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## messica

BunnyN said:


> I do think it's very wrong to make a woman feel like she 'not doing it right' if she is in a lot of pain or finds it hard cope with. We are all are different. Our minds, bodies, babies and labour's are all different. I agree options should be available to everyone. Ideally women everywhere should have options available and it is sad when proper care is not available. It also sad when a woman is not supported in her choices. Having to fight to for your wishes against the 'better' judgement of medical staff while going through labour isn't really much of a choice either. Having the right to choose doesn't always mean a lot when you are being put under an extreme amount of pressure. I had a wonderful birth experience but I had to go against the opinion of the medical profession and society where I live to get it. I am not a person who likes go against convention or make a fuss so were hard choices for me to make. In the end we were very happy with our choices we made but it makes me sad that other women often do not even realise that they do have choices.

:thumbup:

Completely agree!





BunnyN said:


> In the US medical insurance can also complicate things. Many women feel they have no choice but to go against their birth plans in fear of loosing their insurance coverage.

See, I'm not sure where some of these misconceptions like the above come from. 

A birth plan is merely the choices a woman has made either on her own or with the help of her doctor or midwife, and she's entitled to change her mind at any point in the process. A private insurance company or even subsidized care has nothing to do with what is in a woman's birth plan, those choices are entirely her decision. 

Insurance may or may not choose to offer coverage for those choices or changes, but they will never drop a woman simply because of what she wants to do if that makes more sense.


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## Shadowy Lady

tinkerbelle93 said:


> Shadowy Lady said:
> 
> 
> here in Canada we don't have gas and air either. So either you get an epidural or you use a tub/shower or a ball or something. Epidural usage rate here is not as high as the US but def most ppl go the epidural route.
> 
> It is common for ppl to say those of us who aren't getting an epi "are being martyrs" which is really irritating to hear. It's so odd to see women see other women's birth as being their businesses and offering non-constructive criticism. When I was pregnant, I was even told by some men that I would be screaming for an epiural :/ ya because they have given birth!
> 
> Why is there no option of gas and air in some countries? Most of the women I know who didn't have epidurals found the gas and air an essential to get through labour pains. I laboured without an epidural until 8cm (when I needed emergency forceps therefore spinal block) and would have asked for one much sooner if it wasn't for the gas and air taking the edge off the pain. Gas and air is pretty low-risk for mother and baby isn't it as well?Click to expand...

I honestly have no idea! My midwife was from the UK actually and only moved to Canada 4 years ago; she has 4 kids and said that she found gas and air very helpful with all four. I didn't have the option here (none of the hospitals in my city offer gas and air actually) so I used the birthing ball first and then jumped in the tub. I was in there until it was time to push and then I moved to dry land. I did find water helpful though.

You will be surprised but we are also not allowed to "push" in water here either. At least that's how it is at the hospitals in Ontario. It is different if you were giving birth at home though...


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## BunnyN

messica said:


> BunnyN said:
> 
> 
> In the US medical insurance can also complicate things. Many women feel they have no choice but to go against their birth plans in fear of loosing their insurance coverage.
> 
> See, I'm not sure where some of these misconceptions like the above come from.
> 
> A birth plan is merely the choices a woman has made either on her own or with the help of her doctor or midwife, and she's entitled to change her mind at any point in the process. A private insurance company or even subsidized care has nothing to do with what is in a woman's birth plan, those choices are entirely her decision.
> 
> Insurance may or may not choose to offer coverage for those choices or changes, but they will never drop a woman simply because of what she wants to do if that makes more sense.Click to expand...

I don't mean that insurance can make you do something against your will but if a doctor says you are going against their advice then your insurance company can potentially refuse to cover your treatment. If your doctor believes it's in your best interest to be induced and strapped to a monitor and drip while lying on your back many women will end up doing it even if they don't agree if it's the best thing to do and under such conditions the chances of getting an epidural increase greatly. Of course you could go to another care provider, hire an independent MW etc but when faced with this during or just before labour many women don't feel they have a choice.

Under the NHS system in the UK they must continue to provide treatment even if you refuse to follow their advice. They even have to provide support for a HB if thats what you want. Of course no system is perfect but it can lead to differences in the choices women have or feel they have.


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## messica

BunnyN said:


> I don't mean that insurance can make you do something against your will but if a doctor says you are going against their advice then your insurance company can potentially refuse to cover your treatment. If your doctor believes it's in your best interest to be induced and strapped to a monitor and drip while lying on your back many women will end up doing it even if they don't agree if it's the best thing to do and under such conditions the chances of getting an epidural increase greatly. Of course you could go to another care provider, hire an independent MW etc but when faced with this during or just before labour many women don't feel they have a choice.
> 
> Under the NHS system in the UK they must continue to provide treatment even if you refuse to follow their advice. They even have to provide support for a HB if thats what you want. Of course no system is perfect but it can lead to differences in the choices women have or feel they have.

I'm not sure what an HB? You might have to explain that acronym to me because I'm still learning!

Aside from that, I'm also not sure why you have the impression that that's the way things are in the US my dear. 

Doctors don't discuss treatment plans with insurance companies. So whether you follow their advice or not is moot to whoever is carrying your policy.

What insurance covers doesn't have anything to do with what a doctor recommends. Coverage is based entirely on what your plan details. So for example, our private insurance covers infertility diagnostics, but not treatment. If my RE says I don't need or shouldn't have a particular test and I want it anyway my insurance carrier is still going to provide coverage for it regardless. Prime example, our RE doesn't think we need to have the test for anti-sperm antibodies. We want it anyway, and are having it done this Friday. Insurance will absolutely cover it under the diagnostics umbrella even though the doctor doesn't agree that it's necessary. On the flip side of that, that RE has said we have to proceed with ICSI/IVF to have a baby and we're moving forward with that, just because it's his professional opinion that this is our only option doesn't mean insurance has to cover it. 

Further, if we manage to fall pregnant via ICSI/IVF, my doc recommends a c section for delivery and I don't want it, that has nothing to do with whether or not my insurance company will cover a different kind of delivery. They don't have the right to deny me midwife services if midwife services are covered in my plan. The doctors recommendations do not dictate my coverage. My coverage is the only thing that dictates my coverage if that makes sense. The two have nothing to do with one another.

You may be thinking of the differences between HMO and PPO? HMO you have a primary provider within the insurance company's network and you have to get referrals for certain services before they'll cover them, but you're still free to go where you want, see who you want and for what you want, you just may end up paying (more) out of pocket for the option if you want to skip the necessary steps. Many people choose PPO coverage because it affords you all the same options, but with less hoops to jump through to get the services you want.

Most providers are required to provide reasonable treatment even if a patient has no coverage at all and no ability to pay (by reasonable treatment that obviously excludes things like breast implants and unjustifiable tests on a whim lol). 


(Sorry to take your thread off topic OP! Just wanted to clarify as there seems to be a bunch of misinformation about the US health care system on this board! :blush:)


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## messica

tinkerbelle93 said:


> messica said:
> 
> 
> I was thinking about this last night.....I do wonder if the differences come about because of what's available health care wise.
> 
> I've heard many women on the board say they don't have access to the care they want or even need on a NHS. They say they often don't get the doctors, monitoring and testing they need and want, and even on this thread have said epidurals weren't even available where they delivered.
> 
> How is removing choices empowering a woman? Or supporting her?
> 
> If you remove the choice from the mother from country to country, of course the numbers will be different from country to country.
> 
> In the US you do have a choice about everything regarding your care. You are entitled to be educated about your care, tests and all procedures. No one tells you no, and if you don't like what one facility has to offer you simply go to another. As long as you're aware that it's your personal responsibility to advocate for yourself, you have complete control over your birthing experience.
> 
> 
> I do think that if women in other countries had more say about their own care, and were not just left with whatever their governing forces told them was available, the numbers would be far more comparable. It does seem NHS is sort of fear mongering in many ways. Of course they're going to say epi's are incredibly dangerous, advise against them and in many cases not even offer them.....but is that because they really are dangerous and unnecessary or simply because they're just trying to save a buck at your expense? They have every reason to put incorrect information out there, which is exactly why I prefer a privatized system. How can you trust the word of someone who has a vested interest in NOT providing you care if they don't have to?
> 
> I'm not sure about this, I gave birth in the UK under the NHS and was never encouraged at any point to not have an epidural or told anything negative about them. In fact at my midwife appointment during pregnancy I mentioned I have a low pain threshold and the midwife advised having one at 3cm to cope better. The choice was also there for me throughout labour to have one, and everyone I know who wanted an epidural had no problem at all requesting one and having it. As far as I'm aware epidurals are always available in NHS hospitals, they're only unavailable if the mother has chosen to birth in a birth centre or have a home-birth, in which case she's made that choice beforehand.Click to expand...


This is AWESOME to hear. It just differs greatly from so much of what I've read on this board you know? 

So many women here will say they delivered in hospital where epi's aren't even offered. I've read it on this board countless times. Not only that it wasn't available, but often times that even if it is, their delivering docs refused to allow them access to it. That they labored in rooms with multiple women, with little to no privacy, no pain relief, sometimes without their partners even being allowed to be with them and they were just fine so everyone else should be too. Well of course it usually ends up being fine because there really isn't a choice to be anything but under those circumstances. If it's all you have access to it just is what it is and you make do regardless. That doesn't mean that should be the gold standard for all women everywhere though imo. Not that it's a bad route to take if the woman is satisfied with her care and happy with her birthing experience, I just wish all had access to the choices you describe above. 

Birthing options aside I've also read far too many threads where women are denied simply blood tests to confirm pregnancy or miscarriage, scans when they're scared to death something is wrong, adequate pre-natal care that has literally resulted in the deaths of babies in womb.....I'm glad many are happy with the care they have but it would scare me to death to have a baby in the UK based on what I've heard here.

I do hope it's one of those situations where those situations are not the standard and my view is simply skewed based on extreme circumstances voiced here. I am open minded enough to believe that could be the case.


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## moomin_troll

I told people with my first I didn't want one, I was told the same or called a crazy bitch....well I didn't have one and then had my second boy at home with no pain relief at all and that was such an easy birth. Of course it hurt like hell, but I'd rather be free to move around, let my body and gravity do it all for me then be on my back, which is how I had my first. 

Nothing at all wrong with a woman choosing whatever, it's not a competition. People just need to show some respect for ur choices and leave their opinions at that...unless ur asking


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## BunnyN

messica said:


> I'm not sure what an HB? You might have to explain that acronym to me because I'm still learning!
> 
> Aside from that, I'm also not sure why you have the impression that that's the way things are in the US my dear.
> 
> Doctors don't discuss treatment plans with insurance companies. So whether you follow their advice or not is moot to whoever is carrying your policy.
> 
> What insurance covers doesn't have anything to do with what a doctor recommends. Coverage is based entirely on what your plan details. So for example, our private insurance covers infertility diagnostics, but not treatment. If my RE says I don't need or shouldn't have a particular test and I want it anyway my insurance carrier is still going to provide coverage for it regardless. Prime example, our RE doesn't think we need to have the test for anti-sperm antibodies. We want it anyway, and are having it done this Friday. Insurance will absolutely cover it under the diagnostics umbrella even though the doctor doesn't agree that it's necessary. On the flip side of that, that RE has said we have to proceed with ICSI/IVF to have a baby and we're moving forward with that, just because it's his professional opinion that this is our only option doesn't mean insurance has to cover it.
> 
> Further, if we manage to fall pregnant via ICSI/IVF, my doc recommends a c section for delivery and I don't want it, that has nothing to do with whether or not my insurance company will cover a different kind of delivery. They don't have the right to deny me midwife services if midwife services are covered in my plan. The doctors recommendations do not dictate my coverage. My coverage is the only thing that dictates my coverage if that makes sense. The two have nothing to do with one another.
> 
> You may be thinking of the differences between HMO and PPO? HMO you have a primary provider within the insurance company's network and you have to get referrals for certain services before they'll cover them, but you're still free to go where you want, see who you want and for what you want, you just may end up paying (more) out of pocket for the option if you want to skip the necessary steps. Many people choose PPO coverage because it affords you all the same options, but with less hoops to jump through to get the services you want.
> 
> Most providers are required to provide reasonable treatment even if a patient has no coverage at all and no ability to pay (by reasonable treatment that obviously excludes things like breast implants and unjustifiable tests on a whim lol).
> 
> 
> (Sorry to take your thread off topic OP! Just wanted to clarify as there seems to be a bunch of misinformation about the US health care system on this board! :blush:)

I agree about taking over the OPs thread, sorry I find it an interesting subject, I hope you don't mind:blush:. 

HB= Home birth, sorry :)

Please don't think I'm arguing or bad mouthing the American system. Any system has it's pitfalls and I am actually American although I don't live there now. I have also lived in the UK. I think there is a grey area with insurance. Many women are told straight out that they will loose their coverage if they do not follow the doctors advice. For example if the doctor thinks you should be induced and you refuse the doctor can claim that any complications that come after that are caused by refusing to be including things like neonatal care and operations, even if those things should be covered. I have read dozens of accounts on the internet and know women in real life that are told this. Legally it may not be that simple but when being told by both their doctors and their insurance companies that they will not be covered if they refuse induction, or another intervention it can be too intimidating and confusing to go against. If you have specific information about the law in this area I'm sure lots of women would find it interesting, it would be a good topic for a thread.



> Birthing options aside I've also read far too many threads where women are denied simply blood tests to confirm pregnancy or miscarriage, scans when they're scared to death something is wrong, adequate pre-natal care that has literally resulted in the deaths of babies in womb.....I'm glad many are happy with the care they have but it would scare me to death to have a baby in the UK based on what I've heard here.
> 
> I do hope it's one of those situations where those situations are not the standard and my view is simply skewed based on extreme circumstances voiced here. I am open minded enough to believe that could be the case.

It is really scary to go through a miscarriage and it is awful when proper support is not given but while a scan, blood test etc might help you know what is going on in most cases unlikely to save the pregnancy. Doctors tend to give priority to what can actually make a difference to the outcome. When you are going through an early mc that is rather a brutal attitude but honestly there is usually little a doctor can do, no matter what care you recieve.


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## Alyssa Drough

The only time I thought 'I can't do this give me all the drugs' was, as it turned out, when I was about 8cm dilated and going through transition. 

Before I had a baby I thought the whole 'breathe!' thing you see on TV just seemed stupid - but it's really not. It totally works if you can focus properly. 

Hopefully you'll get the chance to be smug next time you talk to these people!


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## Alyssa Drough

And totally agree - being hooked up to monitors and drips would be horrible for me. I was changing position every 5 minutes and rocking on all fours for ages. I couldn't imagine being stuck on a bed with limited movement.


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## trit

I just got finished with an L&D tour and I felt so bad for the women from the UK who was asking about gas and air, the tour lady didn't understand why anyone would want what we call laughing gas when epis are available. I hope that woman isn't working when I go into labor, but I really feel terrible for the expectant mom (who had a child with her) and knows that's all she wants


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## Miss406

I had that - with my own MOTHER!

This is how the telephone call went...

Mum 'So where are you having the baby?'
Me 'At home'
Mum 'But you won't be able to have an epidural at home will you?'
Me 'I don't want one, even if I end up in hospital!'
Mum 'Hahaha, oh don't be silly. I've had four children and I've HAD to have them with each of you!'


Needless to say, I had a beautiful home birth with nothing more than gas and air. 
I also managed to breast-feed also, despite Mother warning me I couldn't do it because she ''couldn't'' do it..........

With the baby after this baby - I had another home birth with absolutely NOTHING as pain relief........ Up yours Mother! LOL


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## aliss

I've done it both ways. One loaded with every medication under the sun, one with not even a tylenol - both long, difficult, hard labours (my body rocks at pregnancy, sucks at labour).

The medication-free birth was much better, much easier to recover from, no tear (could feel pushing better), just... better. Would choose it again anytime, knowing both ways. Wouldn't ever do the epi again.

We had G&A in Vancouver :)


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## jeanyern123

Totally agree with you Lizchase! The first thing my bff said was "get the drugs! you'll need them, you think you'll be ok then wham, get the drugs it's the best thing" I was so angry at her emphatic reaction that now she's put me off having her as involved as I wanted her to.


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## moomin_troll

As I've said before my mum was the one telling me to have a epi with my first ect, it's now after seeing my home birth with nothing as no one turned up lol that she's amazed. 
She's always telling people about my home birth and how amazing it was and how much easier and faster everything happened. She brags about it. 
So you never know, actually seeing a different type of birth might make ur friend change her opinion


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## BunnyN

I do think that our mums still came from the tail end of that poor generation of women where there was a feeling that you should lie on your back backs and 'be good' and quiet during labour and women were not offered anything but drugs or 'breathing through the pain' to cope. If I'd been on my back with my legs in stirrups I might have been screaming for an epi too! I think women who are considering not having an epidural these days are better informed and equipped for having a birth without one. While it might not be something every woman goes for it's not just hippies who are interested in natural child birth and home birth these days and there is a lot of information available. Just being able to chat to others on this forum who have done it gives you confidence.


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## Dragonfly

I had an epi with my first and it failed. Then a spinal as i was being inducted. Not the way I wanted it at all. Second time I refused epi as I didnt want that crap again. Got spinal in end in stead. Didnt want that. Third time I got nothing! painful,. but you know no side effects was a lot better for me and baby. I dont like people really bringing down the confidence of woman in labor. You can do this. Without meds too if you want.


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## staralfur

I had people (including my mom) telling me that labour was going to hurt way more than I thought and that I shouldn't say "I'm not going to get an epidural" without having experienced labour. 

I was induced and had an 18 hour labour with no epidural. There truly was not a single point during the whole thing that I seriously considered getting one. I had gas & air from 7-10cm and that was the extent of my pain relief.

It WAS a lot more painful than I could have imagined, but I was able to work through it. I have serious phobias regarding medical procedures, so voluntarily sticking a needle in my spine is something I feel pretty safe in saying will NEVER happen. I totally get the "creepy" comment as well, I think not being able to have full control of my legs would freak me out. A lot. 

Nothing against people who do get epidurals, I don't morally object to them or anything. But it's something that is just not for me and I did know that before experiencing labour!


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## mara16jade

Interesting. I get annoyed and very uncomfortable when people try to tell me that going pain med. free is the best way. I really think others should just stay out of your business unless you ask their opinion. I had someone in HR tell me that she "had to concentrate really hard for the last 2 hours", but she's glad she went pain med free and I should to. lol She told me that I honestly didn't need the pain meds. and to just do it without anything.

I just smiled and nodded. :thumbup:


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## LizChase

mara16jade said:


> Interesting. I get annoyed and very uncomfortable when people try to tell me that going pain med. free is the best way. I really think others should just stay out of your business unless you ask their opinion. I had someone in HR tell me that she "had to concentrate really hard for the last 2 hours", but she's glad she went pain med free and I should to. lol She told me that I honestly didn't need the pain meds. and to just do it without anything.
> 
> I just smiled and nodded. :thumbup:

Yeah, it's super annoying when anyone tries to influence you any way at all. What's wrong with making our own decisions? The thing that really gets me is that I've never just freely shared that I don't plan to get one, I don't really talk about my pregnancy or plans at all unless someone asks me. So if you ask me if I plan to get an epidural, and I say no, don't then try to make me feel like crap about it! Geez.


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## Rel

With my first, the midwife asked me if I was planning to get an epidural and I answered that I would like to try without. She told me to not say I don't want it because that might mean that I wouldn't be able to get it. Anyway, when I got there, my contractions were very strong after my waters broke and with no time in between (half a minute if I was lucky). Knowing that with a first, labour can take a long time, I asked for it as soon as I got there! Anyway, I was not the usual first timer and I was pushing baby out when the man arrived to give me the epi. It took about 3 hours from when my waters broke till my son was born.
With my second, I found out that I cannot feel contractions (part from the very last ones). I ended up in hospital very early and it was taking long but they didn't ask me to go home because I was in active labour and I livehalf an hour away. They ended up inducing me to speed things up and they asked me if I wanted an epi, which I refused as I could hardly feel the contractions anyway, and I knew when the strong ones arrived that the end was near, and it was, it took less than a half hour.
I just wanted to explain why it is good to have an idea of what you would like but keep an open mind.
I am pretty sure this time that I won't be getting an epi but for my first the only reason I asked for it when getting there was because I "knew" it was going to take hours, and as it happens there are exceptions.
I hope everything will go well for you and that you won't need the epi. It can be done, many have done it and will do it in the future, and hopefully you will be able to go back to all those people who tell you now that you must have an epi and tell them that you went without and that you feel great about it!


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## SabrinaKat

Do whatever is best for you at that time and place. 

I wanted a c-section (actually needed an emergency one with pre-eclampsia) as had had a terrible mc experience, and people told me that I was 'chickening out' - however, _what is best for YOU is the best. Don't say never, research everything _and then, YOU will be happy and confident whatever happens!

good luck!


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## goddess25

I wanted natural labours too and most people told me the same that you will end up getting one. First labour I couldnt push my son out and ended up in the OR..I had a spinal anaesthetic which is one that you cant move with, I barely felt them doing it it was fine. I must admit it was a relief, the anesthesiologist said to me this is the last contraction you will feel and it was. I would have done it though if the little blighter wasnt stuck.

Second labour was really fast but I didnt need any pain relief.

Third labour I wanted a home birth and had an unmedicated home birth.

Yes labour is very painful, but it ends with the birth of a wonderful little person. You can do it.


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