# Swine Flu Vaccine - Pandemrix or Celvapan Jab - yes or no?



## Luuluu

I wondered if you are going to have it - yes or no?
Also, after researching there are 2 types here in UK: Pandemrix or Celvapan. If you read this article, you'll see why I am debating which one:

https://https://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Swine-Flu-Vaccine-Controversy-Concern-Over-Use-Of-Pandremix-By-Pregnant-Mothers/Article/200910215405950?f=rss

Any thoughts?

UPDATE:
I saw the Doc today and spoke at length about having the vaccine. I started by asking him to tell me what you would advise if I was his pregnant wife! He said he would advise me TO have it. He said it was because 6 pregnant women have all died from the swine flu who were otherwise healthy.

I aired my concerns about the Pandemrix and that it contains Mercury and he said that if he was a pregnant lady, he wouldn't be concerned about that as the amount is so minimal, but he would be more concerned about the element in the vaccine that can cause the nervous system to attack itself ultimately resulting in paralysis. He said that the research of this particular element (originally used 30 years ago in vaccines) suggests that the paralysis eventually MAY go away, but he wouldn't want that risk if he was to take the vaccine.

He then told me that my surgery has 1000 people as "priority" BUT they will only be getting 200 vaccines in from the NHS. I may not even be in the top 200!!

Lastly, he smiled and said that if it was him, he might wait 6 months or so until the vaccine has been administered to hundreds of pregnant women to see what side effects might show up. He then finished by telling me that his wife is actually pregnant and that she knows of nobody who is having the vaccine and has decided herself NOT to have it and is going against his advice!

So my decision is made...I am NOT going to have it.

Fingers crossed I am not going to catch it now!!!!!


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## Luuluu

I've just read some interesting facts about the swine flu:

Pregnant women have a supressed immune system which means they're more likely to catch Swine Flu. The reason it's supressed is to stop the body attacking the pregnancy and expelling if it as if it were a bug! Crazy, but it makes sense. 

If, like me, you have asthma, when the baby gets bigger, your lungs are squeezed up and because you're already short of breath with asthma, swine flu attacking your lungs puts you at risk of pneumonia. 
They've reported 6 women here in England who died during pregnancy, 2 in Scotland and 4 in Wales. 

All this totally has scared me to death! 

I am going to have the jab - definitely. 

My worry is that the Pandemrix contains adjuvants (booster materials to enhance the 'ingredients' used in the vaccine) which hasn't been tested (obviously!) on pregnant women. So if the body naturally has a supressed immune system, might the adjuvants boost the immune system to the point of trying to expel the baby?

Has anyone had the jab?

Hope this all makes sense and sorry if I've scared you.  I found this website REALLY detailed and HELPFUL about the vaccines:
https://https://www.mhra.gov.uk/Safetyinformation/Swinefluinformation/index.htm

xxx


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## Luuluu

Has anyone read the Daily Mail today? There's a massive article in there. 

I am not sure now whether to have it or not now :shrug: 

Are you going to have it?


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## Justusmakes3

Personally I'm NOT getting it. The vaccine from what I have been reading can be more harmful to the baby then just getting it naturally. My thoughts are though it can be risky to get any flu while pregnant, I just started take probiotics (immune builder). Haven't had any problems yet! (knock on wood)


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## Mervs Mum

Dont listen to the Daily bloody Mail! Of ALL the papers they are the KINGS of scaremongering and negativity.....:dohh:

Depending on when it's available I may or may not have it. I work part time, in a secondary school so I only have about 27 days left in work. My GP surgery arent expecting the vaccine till the end of November then they will contact people. It could be mid December before I can have it and I finish for Xmas on the 16th then I have 6 days till mat leave. If that's the case I'll take my chances and stay home. If they said to me I could have it next week then I'd take it, preferably Celvapan.


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## littledemonme

Hi, different perspective.
Up until Tuesday I would have said definitely no, thalidomide was my generation and taking anything is a no no. I asked my midwifew at booking appointment and she said she won't take it and wouldn't recommend it.
HOWEVER, I read a very intersesting and balanced article in the somewhat less hysterical guardian. To sum it up it basically recommended that if you have no contact with Joe Public then no don't take it, but if you do - I teach 4 year olds who like to share (!) then definitely do take it.
My other half has been having dreams that the baby and I die and I know he really wants me to take it, my dad is a gp and says there is almost NO chance it can affect the baby and it was just a really unbiased article that made me think twice. Better to suffer a bad cold than the other consequences.
So I'm in the yes camp now - look for the article - Tuesday Guardian supplement.


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## Luuluu

littledemonme said:


> my dad is a gp and says there is almost NO chance it can affect the baby and it was just a really unbiased article that made me think twice. Better to suffer a bad cold than the other consequences.
> So I'm in the yes camp now - look for the article - Tuesday Guardian supplement.

That's really interesting. Does your Dad recommend the Pandemrix or the Celvapan?

xxx


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## Justusmakes3

littledemonme said:


> almost NO chance it can affect the babyQUOTE]
> 
> ALMOST NO CHANCE!!!!!! to me that is still a chance idc how low. not to mention, that live vaccines have been proven to cause Autism.... I'm just not willing to do something to harm my child's future.


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## littledemonme

I don't know I'll ask Lulu.


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## cspraggon

Live vaccines have *not *been shown to cause autism. One scientist published this discredited work based on insubstantial data. Many previous and subsequent studies provide no evidence to back up this example of poor science.

As for the vaccine, both are dead rather than live, so this shouldn't be an issue. 
The major difference is the adjuvant (booster) in Pandemrix which isn't present in Celvapan. The components of the adjuvant are used in other vaccines so should theoretically be safe, but not suprisingly vaccines aren't tested on pregnant women, the safety information all comes from information about side effects once the vaccine is out. Neither vaccine has been out for long enough to get sufficient safety data for me to make a decision easily. But it looks like the NHS are going with Pandemrix so there may only be a yes/no choice rather than being able to pick and choose which vaccine.

I'm 27 weeks, don't work with children and could work from home if people started coming down with it....but I still think I'll have the vaccine (although I would prefer Celvapan if I had the choice).

It's a tricky one....


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## SmileyShazza

My husband and I have just been discussing this and personally I think I will not accept it. Not enough research has been done on pregnant women, some reports say there has been no research done with them.

There are various reports coming out of other countries who have started vaccinating people and there have been a number of prople reporting serious side effects including a person who apparently has been paralyzed after getting the vaccine.

https://www.theflucase.com/index.php?opt ... 64&lang=en

https://www.kvp.se/halsa/1.1750592/de-bl ... v-vaccinet

I am going to make sure I am getting all the nutrients / vitamins etc I need and make sure I exercise scrupulous cleanliness with hand washing etc. Hand sanitizer is going to be my best friend over the next few months.

I don't trust this vaccine it all seems to be very rushed and I am worried about what effects it could have on me and/or my unborn baby.


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## JessiHD

Justusmakes3 said:


> littledemonme said:
> 
> 
> almost NO chance it can affect the babyQUOTE]
> 
> ALMOST NO CHANCE!!!!!! to me that is still a chance idc how low. not to mention, that live vaccines have been proven to cause Autism.... I'm just not willing to do something to harm my child's future.
> 
> Which live vaccines cause Autism? Autism is genetic not caused by vaccines.Click to expand...


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## JessiHD

I will have Celvapan if they offer it and only in the third tri, otherwise I'll try and do without any vaccine.


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## mummypeanut

Personally YES.

Both forms of vaccine are now approved by the WHO.

As i said in a different thread the technology is exactly the same as the seasonal flu vaccine which i had today. 

The seasonal flu vaccine is NEVER tested on pregnant women before it is adminstered due to the thelidamide problems outlawing it. 

The seasonal flu vaccine is known to be very safe because 18% of pregnant women have health conditions which mean they get ti every year with a very low incidence of adverse side effects. 

My GP said today if you have other risk factors like asthma etc she would strongly urge us to get it. In the later stages of pregnancy, as this poster said, your lung capacity is severly restricted due to pressure from the baby and its very hard to shift chest infections. The most severe complication of swine flu is pnemonia so anyone with breathing conditions should think about it seriously and do thier research.

This swine flu vaccine is exactly the same as the seasonal flu vaccine I had today but with dead swine flu in it.

I'm sorry but the people on here worrying and scaring other people about it being a LIVE vaccine really need to do some reading. ITS DEAD, only the nasal spray is live, which as pregnant women we will NOT be offered 

Its not 100% safe but then neither is getting in your car everyday. As a pregnant woman and i bet you never give that a second thought.

If your scared do some research - ive been looking at valid and unbias sources all day which all convince me that its worth the risk of the vaccine over the risk of the actual flu given my circumstances.


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## Luuluu

Thanks for all the information on here girlies!
I think if I do decide to have it, it will be the Celvapan. But I am going to speak to my doctor tomorrow shall report back on what he says tomorrow.

I also know of 18 other girls who are all pregnant now and am going to text them all and find out from them if they've already had it etc.
I will keep you posted!
xxxx

UPDATE

I have had replies back from friends who are all pregnant right now and they have ALL except 1 said they will NOT be having the vaccine. The 1 who said she might have it hasn't made her mind up for definite. So far I have had 6 replies. xxx


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## Luuluu

Has anyone got any pregnant friends who have decided they are or aren't going to have it?


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## sarahhoney

I will say this is the most 'educated' reasons to have the jab thread I have since on here and I for one am glad.
I have a heart condition & knowing that the pregnant women who died were all classed as 'healthy' then I can't take the risk of getting swine flu.
I do hate the fact that i have decided (depending on doctors advice) to have the jab and because of this I'm being made to feel like I am endangering my baby. Its a hard enough decision to be made at the best of times without the added pressure of other mothers to be and what their doing. 
I think everyone needs to make their own educated and researched decision especially as everyone has different circumstances and whether they be yes or no decisions its nice to see most ladies on this thread doing this xxx


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## travellinglad

Hi

I have decided to have the jab after a week of sleepless nights deciding. My reasons are simple, I have a 2 and a 4yr old at home to consider. If I got the flu and was unable to look after them, or god forbid it was a serious case and I had to go hospital. We have no family in the area so it would be incredibly tough. I have been sick whilst looking after them (who were both also very sick at the time) last year and it was sooooo hard. Also me having two little ones in school/playgroup and a husband with a high risk job was another factor.


Reason #2: I have two friends both currently pregnant (both getting the jab), one's a GP the other is a Midwife who also works in ICU. They both highly recommended me getting it as they have both seen the effects of swine flu on pregnant ladies. I guess 30% of all swine flu cases admitted to their hospital are pregnant. She also said that the vaccine does not cross the placenta and if it had been discovered a few months earlier it would be included in the regular flu jab.

Final reason was I have to have a c-section in January and my Mum pointed out if I was to be sick when I was due to have major surgery it would not be good for me or the baby.

Anyway just wanted to share my personal reasons for accepting the jab. I will also add that if I had no other children I probably would be saying NO. My girls are my priority as far as I am concerned.

Good luck in whatever you individually decide, it's a tough one for sure :wacko:


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## kelloggs

I have seen the effects of the flu on my husband and myself... well not the recent one for me. 

my husband has the flu right now and providing I don't catch it before and even if I do then I will definitely be getting the jab.


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## Luuluu

These responses are EXCELLENT! Thank you girlies for your detailed reasons. I would LOVE to know how you find the jab once you've had it. I presume you're having the Pandemrix? Will you keep us posted on this one PLEEEEASE?:thumbup:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## kristen77

Hi girls.

I was always of the no opinion until last week. I went to the dr to ask if there was a blood test to see if I had the SF antibodies as I recently had a nasty virus. Although she came back with a negative about that, she had done an awful lot of research on my behalf. She said that her opinion had been totally changed. She had been in the no camp also but that every single immunologist was saying that we should have it. Also, she said that the vaccine is very similar to the seasonal flu vac that is routinely given to pg women in the US, and has been for many years without adverse effect.

So now I am in the probably yes camp. I know my surgery are getting in Pandemrix (sp?) and I won't have the option of having Celvapan - apparently you can't get it privately. I will probably have Pandemrix if that's the only option open to me. The way I see it, if the top immunologists are saying we should have it then they know an awful lot more than I do on the subject...

x


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## bumpitybump

I too will not be taking either vaccine.

Pandemrix has squalene adjuvant (the part that might cause auto-immune disorders among other nasties) and mercury preservative (thiomersal), Celvapan does not have either but is cultured on monkey cells and is...well, we dont know what the side effects might be and sounds ghastly.

I will however be taking 4000iu of vitamin D3 which is a fantastic preventative for various winter ills including flu. From now until spring in the UK there is not enough UVB in sunlight to make vitamin D3 in the skin.

There is also an interesting article from the vitamin D council (non profit) about vitamin D and autism as well as flu, but I cant post the link because I'm too new here.


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## Luuluu

bumpitybump said:


> I too will not be taking either vaccine.
> 
> Pandemrix has squalene adjuvant (the part that might cause auto-immune disorders among other nasties) and mercury preservative (thiomersal), Celvapan does not have either but is cultured on monkey cells and is...well, we dont know what the side effects might be and sounds ghastly.
> 
> I will however be taking 4000iu of vitamin D3 which is a fantastic preventative for various winter ills including flu. From now until spring in the UK there is not enough UVB in sunlight to make vitamin D3 in the skin.
> 
> There is also an interesting article from the vitamin D council (non profit) about vitamin D and autism as well as flu, but I cant post the link because I'm too new here.

This is exactly what I have read except I've not heard about the Vitimin D. I will look into this, most definitely.
Thank you for this concise and informative post.
xxxx


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## New2Bumps

I'm in 3rd tri and still undecided. 
I might not even get offered it in time!

My view is this...

6 months immunity (double strength if BFing) for baby 

versus

Possible side effects for baby

I am also of the thalidamide generation (as someone said before) and my mom was nagged to take that and never did. I think that clouds my view though and I'm trying to remember that was 32 years ago...

I hope that we're offered the Celvapan - that would make my decision a little easier. The USA are offering that but not the Pandemrix. 

I hope that as weeks go by we will get a clearer picture on this.


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## Zarababy1

I think If im offerd it in time, after reading quite a bit about it i will get it, I dont know i mean its a really hard choice to make but i think after reading most things i'd have to go with yes, partly because altho yes there could be risks involved with it i dont really want too risk getting it late in pregnancy and becoming very ill possibly dieing when i have a small child too think about, Too me at the moment im afraid Charlie comes first and if its going to maybe prevent me from beeing ill so im here for him then i think i'd have to go for it, for me now tho its to decided if i want him to have it or not! 
Really hard desisions but this thread seems too have helped me cheers x


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## mummypeanut

The other pro i found out last weekend is that if u have the vaccine ur baby will have up to 6 months protection after its born xxx


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## Luuluu

I went to one of my classes tonight for pregnant women and spoke to 10 other ladies, ALL of whom said NO - they won't be getting the jab.

There's some excellent info on here now.

Pleeeeeease, if you decide to have the jab (as I have already said) will you post your experience about it on here?

Thank you!
xxx


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## bumpitybump

Luuluu said:


> bumpitybump said:
> 
> 
> I too will not be taking either vaccine.
> 
> Pandemrix has squalene adjuvant (the part that might cause auto-immune disorders among other nasties) and mercury preservative (thiomersal), Celvapan does not have either but is cultured on monkey cells and is...well, we dont know what the side effects might be and sounds ghastly.
> 
> I will however be taking 4000iu of vitamin D3 which is a fantastic preventative for various winter ills including flu. From now until spring in the UK there is not enough UVB in sunlight to make vitamin D3 in the skin.
> 
> There is also an interesting article from the vitamin D council (non profit) about vitamin D and autism as well as flu, but I cant post the link because I'm too new here.
> 
> This is exactly what I have read except I've not heard about the Vitimin D. I will look into this, most definitely.
> Thank you for this concise and informative post.
> xxxxClick to expand...

My pleasure and do definitely look into vit D, its a shame I cant post links yet but with sun avoidance and sunscreen etc., we're all probably somewhat deficient and as I said before, there wont be any from the sun until late spring! 

Maybe that's why we get flu and colds etc in winter - or partially why at least. In any case, I'm taking 4000iu per day until spring..

I'd like to post the full pdf data sheet for Pandemrix but again, I'm too new here, but if you google "pandemrix pdf data" result no.4 should be a link to the emea official pdf. It makes interesting reading particularly the contraindications and the fact that there is "no data for pregnant women" at all.


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## Siinead_x0

_I went for th vaccine last night.. reading these comments now are starting to scare me! I was given a leaflet by th hospital & it said that many pregnant women have had this jab in th USA & everythng was fine.. Its th same jab as th flu only a bit stronger! I dont know what to think now, but theres nothing i can do cos ive already had it :S_


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## chocomum

I'm nearly 30 weeks pregnant and asthmatic. I already have a toddler and keep continuously catching colds etc. And becuase my immune system isn't functioning properly due to pregnancy the symptoms are more severe than usual. So am thinking it's better to have the vaccine rather then catching swine flu. My surgery are only offering Pandemrix. I would rather have Celvepan after reading reports but don't know whether i can get this privately. I am terrified of having the jab but think if i dont take it i'll catch it.


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## Zarababy1

chocomum said:


> I'm nearly 30 weeks pregnant and asthmatic. I already have a toddler and keep continuously catching colds etc. And becuase my immune system isn't functioning properly due to pregnancy the symptoms are more severe than usual. So am thinking it's better to have the vaccine rather then catching swine flu. My surgery are only offering Pandemrix. I would rather have Celvepan after reading reports but don't know whether i can get this privately. I am terrified of having the jab but think if i dont take it i'll catch it.

thats exactly the same as me! i keep thinking what if i catch it and get really ill im gunna be no good too charlie then am i! im definatly getting it if i get offerd it before i pop!


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## travellinglad

Hi

I booked my yesterday for the 5th November. I forgot to ask which one it will be. I am sure I will be a little nervous after getting it. It will probably be the same feeling as giving my girls the MMR jabs, a little worried but glad it was all over and I didn't have to think about it anymore.
My midwife friend told me this morning she has had another two pregnant ladies come in yesterday with confirmed swine flu.

I will let you know how it goes.


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## sarahhoney

This continues to be an excellent thread on the subject, highlighting for and against reasons.

Really pleased I've taken the time (twice) to read all the posts & I will continue coming back here.

Quick question, did you ladies who have had it or booked to have it, ring the docs yourself? Or did they contact you? I don't want to annoy my surgery unless I should be ringing them! Also I should probably see a doctor first as I have a heart condition.

Thanks for the vit D advice and I'm definitly going to take some also as an extra precaution.


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## chocomum

I was sent a letter and offered the jab. But because i'm asthmatic, not because i'm pregnant. I beleive pregnant ladies are the next category to be offered the jab by our surgery.


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## travellinglad

Sarahhoney: I was sent a letter last week asking me to call this week to book an apt for next week. I did not have to call anyone to receive the letter it just came through automatically. 
HTH


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## kelloggs

the jabs are arriving for the 11th November at my surgery - I will be going down. 

my husband is still on day 5 of the flu and I really don't want to catch it as it wasn't nice. when I asked if i was immune as he had had it the nurse said no. 

I trust my surgery so will go with what they say,


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## mummypeanut

Hi, I asked my midwife about Adjuvants and her GP husband emailed me this link from the British Medical Journal. I'm not sure it clears anything up but its interesting to read:

https://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/oct21_2/b4335?eaf


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## mummypeanut

mummypeanut said:


> Hi, I asked my midwife about Adjuvants and her GP husband emailed me this link from the British Medical Journal. I'm not sure it clears anything up but its interesting to read:
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/oct21_2/b4335?eaf

For what its worth i still think i will be taking the vaccine!


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## Luuluu

https://https://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/general/direct/pr/60258209en.pdf

Here's the link talking about the vaccine! (PDF) Interesting read.

Our surgery won't be getting it for another 4 weeks! I have til then to ultimately decide as I am swayed each day!


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## JessiHD

I'm inclined to go without Pandemrix as my only risk factor is being pregnant. If I had any other risk factor then I think think the potential benefits might away the potential risks. I wish the Government would just offer us all Celvapan! 

Does anyone know if we pass on the immunity to the baby if we do have the jab?


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## Luuluu

I've heard only on this thread that the baby is protected for 6 months after it's born if you do have the jab, but not heard or read this from any information.


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## tinytoes1904

Jess - Ive been told baby will benefit from immunity up to the age of 6 months...

Girls. I had my seasonal flu jab yesterday. I get my Swine Flu PANDEMRIX on Saturday (this sat 31st). Our maternity hospitals in belfast are so concerned they have written to every pregnant women registered regardless of which hospital and have invited them all to receive the vaccine at the Royal Hospital on saturdays and sundays for the next 3 weeks.

The appointment line opened yesterday at 9am and i faffed about for a while then thought oops i may ring here, thinking Id get straight through. It took me from 930am redialing until 3pm to get through to make my appointment. I got the only sat one left and sunday was fully booked already. Must say I was surprised! 

I am concerned a little at getting the vaccine. But I am immunosuppressed by medication as well as pregnancy for my autoimmune disease so I simply havent really got a choice but to trust my consultant. Also its worth noting, my cousin did not get her son the MMR when all the scare mongering went on. And he suffers from Autism. So in wayin things up I just feel that there is always a chance something will go wrong in the future no matter what we do. Plus i read the mercury containing agent thermisol was removed from vaccines since 2002 (it was either in canada or america i cant remember) and there has been NO CHANGE in the rates of autism in children who received the thermisol free vaccines since then, than when it was containing thermisol. 

I dunno, im just tryin to tell myself all will be ok. I have a 3 year old too, and with my awful immune system already, never mind pregnancy as well, I just cant risk getting swine flu...God knows how it would affect me and she needs her mummy.


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## Pink_Tinks

i havent been offered it yet but i assume i will be in the next couple of weeks.

I really dont know what to do, i am actually nearly in tears (bloody hormones...!) over this, because i dont want to not have the jab and risk getting flu and harming my baby, but i dont want to get the jab which doesnt seem to have been tested enough and deemed totally safe if in a month or so there is going to be an outbreak of problems for those who have had it! 

i know that immune systems are meant to get weaker during pregnancy, but i actually believe mine is stronger. I get everything and anything, and i have been totally fine for the past 6 months, even being round people with illnesses - three people at work who have actualy had swine flu! 

i also know that there are loads of pregnant women on here who have had swine flu and are fine! 

Gosh why does this have to happen now?!?!? :-(


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## tinytoes1904

I wish I could help but its got to be a decision you make yourself pet. Mine wasnt hard because I have an illness too.

I guess if Im honest I would prob still have got it. On the balance of things, one hand there is clear evidence that swine flu is very dangerous for preg women. On the other, there is no clear indication there will be any problems with the vaccine. So id prob have still got it maybe :wacko:


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## laurajo24

so many contradictions out there. i feel totally overwhelmed by all the information especially as its so conflicting.
even on here! someone said the vaccine doesn't cross the placenta. then people are saying that baby will have immunity for six months so it must get into its system somehow!
i have read the unbiased articles out there and still can't decide. 
we avoid cheeses and pate etc because of potential harm so do i really want to have a vaccine in my system that we know nothing about?
BUT then i have read that its similar to the US seasonal vaccine anyway which causes no problems.

might write down a list of for and against.... my head is so confuzzled!


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## mummypeanut

laurajo24 said:


> so many contradictions out there. i feel totally overwhelmed by all the information especially as its so conflicting.
> even on here! someone said the vaccine doesn't cross the placenta. then people are saying that baby will have immunity for six months so it must get into its system somehow!
> i have read the unbiased articles out there and still can't decide.
> we avoid cheeses and pate etc because of potential harm so do i really want to have a vaccine in my system that we know nothing about?
> BUT then i have read that its similar to the US seasonal vaccine anyway which causes no problems.
> 
> might write down a list of for and against.... my head is so confuzzled!

sounds like a good plan!


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## gem_

Hi Everyone,

Visiting from 1st trimester. I have decided to have the vaccine. I work as a pharmacist and am in constant contact with ill patients. I think there will be far more cases of swine flu over the winter months and don't want to put myself or my baby at risk. It hasn't been an easy decision as I miscarried my last pregnancy but I am frightened by the stories of otherwise healthy pregnant women dying with swine flu.  I have a 2 year old son and he has to my priority. I don't want him growing up without a mother.

I contacted my GP surgery. They could offer me an appointment ASAP for the GSK Pandemrix jab, but as I'm only 11 weeks pregnant at the moment I'm going to wait a few weeks and see if they get the Baxter Celvapan jab in as this is adjuvant free. The risk of complications from swine flu increases the further you are into your pregnancy and I don't like the idea of having the vaccine in my first trimester anyway, so I feel I have some time left. However they don't know if they will be getting Celvapan in and if they do they have to find 9 other patients who want that brand too, so I'm not very hopeful. If in a few weeks times they still haven't had any Celvapan in, I will take the Pandemrix.

It is a personal decision for everyone and there is no right or wrong decision.

If anyone who's had the Pandemrix vaccine could let us know how it went and if they suffered any side effects I think that would be reassuring for us all. I know Izzies_mom is having hers this weekend. Hope it all goes well x


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## Luuluu

Good luck to you if you're having it this week. We would love to know how you get on. :thumbup: Hope it all goes ok.
xxx


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## travellinglad

Hi ladies

I know there has been a lot of article pasted onto here but I found this one very informative and answered all of my questions. It was sent to me by my sister-in-law who is in Canada and is very clued up about these sort of things. She wanted me to read the bit halfway down about the difference between adjuvanted and unadjuvanted vaccines. Take a read especially if you are under 20wks. I am 27wks so I think I will be fine either way.

www.phac-aspc.gc.cahttps://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/fs-fi-pregnancy-grossesse-eng.php#s4


Anyway hope it helps some of you ladies out there in making your very tough decisions.
Oh in case you haven't read the full 5pages I am getting my shot on the 5th November and I think it's the adjuvanted one. :wacko:


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## Luuluu

This is a great artcial. Many thanks! It re-confirms my thoughts on NOT having the adjuvated vaccine. If I've gotta have it, I'll have Celvapan.
Great research....


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## travellinglad

Luuluu: I actually had a look at the article again and it looks like I posted the wrong link!! even though that one was very interesting indeed. I have edited my post to put on the full article that my sister-in-law sent. :thumbup:


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## mummypeanut

Does anyone know if there is anyway for people to get hold of celvapan in the UK??

I'm rather concerned that although its my prefered choice the NHS doesnt really allow for choice and I'm likely to have the choice of Pandemrix or nothing

How are other people going to deal with it?


----------



## mummypeanut

mummypeanut said:


> Does anyone know if there is anyway for people to get hold of celvapan in the UK??
> 
> I'm rather concerned that although its my prefered choice the NHS doesnt really allow for choice and I'm likely to have the choice of Pandemrix or nothing
> 
> How are other people going to deal with it?

P.S i cant pretend i have an egg allergy because i had the seasonal flu vaccine last weekend so they will know im lying straight away.


----------



## Luuluu

travellinglad said:


> Luuluu: I actually had a look at the article again and it looks like I posted the wrong link!! even though that one was very interesting indeed. I have edited my post to put on the full article that my sister-in-law sent. :thumbup:

Thanks! The new article you posted was v. concise. I liked the table of "vaccine versus antiviral".

If only I was a millionaire - I could buy my own Celvapan!
xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Luuluu

mummypeanut said:


> Does anyone know if there is anyway for people to get hold of celvapan in the UK??
> 
> I'm rather concerned that although its my prefered choice the NHS doesnt really allow for choice and I'm likely to have the choice of Pandemrix or nothing
> 
> How are other people going to deal with it?

I reckon I am going to kick up a MASSIVE stink if I decide to have it and they don't give offer me Celvapan. I'll use the line that they'll be held responsible if I die etc. I will also try the egg allergy too. 

If you've decided to have it, I reckon you should do WHATEVER it takes to get it! Good luck! xxx


----------



## tinytoes1904

Thanks for the good lucks, i am dreading saturday a little. But of course Ill start a thread afterwards and hopefully Ill have nothin bad to report :thumbup:

I think with me being on immunosuppressants hopefully will stop it causing too much of an immune response. Suppose thats one benefit of stinking azathioprine. I worried myself sick for the first trimester about taking Azathioprine in pregnancy as its a big noo nooo nooooo if you read online. But my Consultant said I had to as if my disease flared up there was a chance id lose baby and it WAS considered safe. Im now 15 weeks and all 3 of my scans looking just fine. All that worry for nothin so far. Have also since met 6 other mums who took it while pregnant and babies all fine and a few years old. Suppose drug companies cannot ever tell u something is safe in pregnancy for the fear of being sued. So im taking the darned Pandemrix and sayin my prayers :wacko:

EEEEKKKKKKKKKKK :shrug:


----------



## JessiHD

mummypeanut said:


> Does anyone know if there is anyway for people to get hold of celvapan in the UK??
> 
> I'm rather concerned that although its my prefered choice the NHS doesnt really allow for choice and I'm likely to have the choice of Pandemrix or nothing
> 
> How are other people going to deal with it?

Perhaps we should set up a petition on the 10 Downing Street website and also write to our local MPs and the Health Minister? We could draft a letter template and get as many pregnant women as possible to write in?


----------



## callmepoppy

the petition is a great idea Jessi... least we'd be doing something!


----------



## Luuluu

JessiHD said:


> mummypeanut said:
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if there is anyway for people to get hold of celvapan in the UK??
> 
> I'm rather concerned that although its my prefered choice the NHS doesnt really allow for choice and I'm likely to have the choice of Pandemrix or nothing
> 
> How are other people going to deal with it?
> 
> Perhaps we should set up a petition on the 10 Downing Street website and also write to our local MPs and the Health Minister? We could draft a letter template and get as many pregnant women as possible to write in?Click to expand...

OMG that's a GREAT idea! Let's do it! Shall we get a draft going on here? 
Who's up for it??????.............


----------



## littledemonme

Hello all, had 16 week appt today. Midwife has changed her mind and will be taking it, our surgery doesn't have it in yet and midwife didn't know what they were getting. Asked receptionist about it who looked at me like I was an idiot and just kept telling me I'd get a letter in a few weeks - eeee, we can't get it even if we want it!
Good luck for upcoming appointments! 
:hugs:


----------



## gem_

Hi everyone,

I've been reading other posts about the swine flu jab on other sites and have read on one site that 2 pregnant women, one from Britain and one from Norway had the Pandemrix jab yesterday and are fine so far with no side-effects other than a headache and sore arm. So far this is quite reassuring.

To izzies_mom, the only thing that's worrying me about the Pandemrix is the fact it boosts your immune system. I agree with you and think that as you are taking immunosuppressants you are much less likely to have this problem. Good luck x

To all of you that want to have Celvapan, I think it depends how nice your GP surgery is. Mine is more than happy for me to have it even though I don't have an egg allergy, but they don't know when or if they'll be getting it in and they need to find 9 other patients who also want it :-(


----------



## travellinglad

Hi
Petition sounds good.

Just to let you know my hubby had his shot on Wednesday and yesterday felt a little run down but today all he is suffering from is a heavy arm. My midwife friend said that all her doctors and midwifes who have had the jab in the last week have suffered 24hrs of ache/temps and sore arms, but other than that all ok.
Good luck all.


----------



## Luuluu

It's good to see some reassuring "real life" cases who've had the vaccine on here. Please keep them coming in.....
xxx


----------



## gem_

Hi everyone - me again!

A pharmacist acquaintance of mine who works in a hospital had her Pandemrix jab today at 17 and a half weeks pregnant. I will let you know if she suffers any after effects. I don't know her very well, but one of my best friends works with her and will keep me updated. The nurse giving the vaccine told my best friend that she advises women don't have it in their first trimester. I think I'll wait until I'm at least 14 weeks which is only a couple of weeks away for me.

I've read an update on the woman from Norway who had her pandemrix jab just over 2 days ago at 24 weeks pregnant. She is suffering from a slight headache, arm pain and the feeling that she is coming down with something, but nothing too troublesome. She also said her baby has been kicking and moving about as normal, which is good news.


----------



## mummyjax

Hi

I moved to Norway from the UK recently and received my pandemrix shot yesterday at 32 weeks pregnant. I have had a sore arm since last night and that's about it. Baby still kicking away. Will probably still worry about the baby until its born but my reason for going ahead was I have a 4 1/2 year old and a 20 month old and they are my priority and I don't want to get sick. 

All the reports say that Pandemrix is safe in pregnancy and I guess you just have to trust the immunologists!


----------



## deobi

I posted the most recent info from the WHO stating either one is acceptable on another thread but it might be relevent here.


Vaccines for pregnant women
Concerning vaccines for pregnant women, SAGE noted that studies in experimental animals using live attenuated vaccines and non-adjuvanted or adjuvanted inactivated vaccines found no evidence of direct or indirect harmful effects on fertility, pregnancy, development of the embryo or fetus, birthing, or post-natal development. 

Based on these data and the substantially elevated risk for a severe outcome in pregnant women infected with the pandemic virus, SAGE recommended that any licensed vaccine can be used in pregnant women, provided no specific contraindication has been identified by the regulatory authority.


----------



## JessiHD

Unfortunately we won't know of any long term developmental problems for a long while.


----------



## deobi

JessiHD said:


> Unfortunately we won't know of any long term developmental problems for a long while.

this is true.


----------



## Luuluu

Just heard from a couple of more of my friends who are pregnant and they've said they won't be getting the jab. 

I am yet to hear from someone who does get the jab and will post it on here as soon as i do!

x


----------



## CocoaOne

deobi said:


> JessiHD said:
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we won't know of any long term developmental problems for a long while.
> 
> this is true.Click to expand...

and it's the long term effects that worry me a hell of a lot more than the short term effects.....


----------



## mummypeanut

Im booked in for the 11th of November and will be taking pandemrix (as my surgery isn't offering an alternative)

I have quite bad asthma and obviously i'm pregnant too so I dont really feel i have a choice. I had the seasonal flu vaccine last week.

I will post any side effects of pandemrix etc


----------



## Luuluu

mummypeanut said:


> Im booked in for the 11th of November and will be taking pandemrix (as my surgery isn't offering an alternative)
> 
> I have quite bad asthma and obviously i'm pregnant too so I dont really feel i have a choice. I had the seasonal flu vaccine last week.
> 
> I will post any side effects of pandemrix etc

Lots of luck hun!
xxx


----------



## nikkibr

oh god! i just dont know what to do!! i hav my 16 week midwife app tomorrow and want to talk to her about it! i'm just in such a pickly! to have the injection or not too!! this is my first pregnancy so i just don't want any thing going wrong! xx


----------



## Luuluu

nikkibr said:


> oh god! i just dont know what to do!! i hav my 16 week midwife app tomorrow and want to talk to her about it! i'm just in such a pickly! to have the injection or not too!! this is my first pregnancy so i just don't want any thing going wrong! xx

Hey hun!

I guess you must look at your own situation. Do you suffer with asthma/heart condition? Do you work in a place where there are lots of people such as a school or a hospital? Do you commute on trains that are full of people?
You should base it on your own circumstances. 

Let me know what you decide and what you're advised tomorrow by your midwife - good luck xxx


----------



## JessiHD

CocoaOne said:


> deobi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JessiHD said:
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we won't know of any long term developmental problems for a long while.
> 
> this is true.Click to expand...
> 
> and it's the long term effects that worry me a hell of a lot more than the short term effects.....Click to expand...

Same too. I have decided against taking Pandemrix but undecided about Celvapan. I work for the NHS but do not have patient contact and work in a maternity hospital so unlikely to have swine flu patients in anyway. I have no other risk factors and have had a pretty healthy pregnancy so far. If I had a heart condition or asthma I would take it.


----------



## blackrose

I'm so confused .... Must speak to my doctor


----------



## bijua

Hello,
i´m from Portugal , and here Pandermix is the only we can have it...And like in your country we are very confuse. There´s no right opinion about the fears of taking this one.
In Portugal only pregnant with other complications health are taking the Vaccine, but in the next week perhaps starts to every pregnant women...and we have fear and we don´t no what to do. 
In our country the cases of flu have increase in last days and the media are always talking about that, and there is to many alarm about it.
To many doctors don´t want to have the vaccine , so how can we trust on pandermix effects?!! :nope:


----------



## nikkibr

Hey hun!

I guess you must look at your own situation. Do you suffer with asthma/heart condition? Do you work in a place where there are lots of people such as a school or a hospital? Do you commute on trains that are full of people?
You should base it on your own circumstances. 

Let me know what you decide and what you're advised tomorrow by your midwife - good luck xxx[/QUOTE]

hiya, well taking all that into account, no i dont have a heart condition or asthma, work in a very small office of the same ppl everyday, and nope i dont communte - so i guess i am reducing my risks already. but im such a worryier! i no im in the same position as everyone else its just such a tough decision!! i will let you know what the midwide says - thanks  xxxx


----------



## mummyjax

Hi

After just reading that yet another pregnant lady the same age as myself has died from Swine Flu in Manchester with no mention of other health complications, I think that the vaccine is the best option. No there is no guarantee that it will work or that it won't cause complications to the baby in years to come but at least the chances are you will be around to deal with them!


----------



## brumbar

I'd go for pandremix if I had a choice. The adjuvant technology has been tested in various vaccines and what it means is tha you need less virus to achieve the same result.


----------



## Lill

Just like to note how infectious the H1N1 really is. A colleague (who's partner had the H1N1) came into work with a mild cold at the end of last week. Today I was completely amazed to find out that the whole team at work has come down with the H1N1 and there is bascially no staff. This is infectious and with preg, we are at higher risk due to our immune systems and age!

I wanted to get the non-adjv vaccine (after long debates) but unfortunately it will not be available till mid-Nov. Its a shame as I've had now to take tamiflu due to getting flu-like symptoms which I'd be more concerned about. 

However I found I couldn't not take the tamiflu after weighing up the increased risks for hospitalisation, health risks to my baby and myself, never mind the increased concern/stress for my poor hubbie if anything happened to us!! 

Overall there is no easy answer but just remember, that if you get the H1N1 flu then your forced down the route of making decisions on whats higher/lower risks! Its not nice! I personally just wish I had the chance to have got the vaccine!


----------



## Luuluu

mummyjax said:


> Hi
> 
> After just reading that yet another pregnant lady the same age as myself has died from Swine Flu in Manchester with no mention of other health complications, I think that the vaccine is the best option. No there is no guarantee that it will work or that it won't cause complications to the baby in years to come but at least the chances are you will be around to deal with them!

OMG I haven't heard about that lady. How old was she? My mind is slowly being changed to having the vaccine. My surgery hasn't even contacted me to even come in so who knows if I'll even be offered it. They're only getting 200 in anyway for 1000 patients so chances are slim anyway.
I just don't know anymore....


----------



## AmyMarie

I dont think ill get it as i have heard more bad than good with it, plus its not on the market long enough to know or study the full benifits or side affects of the vacine on the unborn baby :S:S:S I am so unsure of it.

I only hope everything goes ok :(


----------



## Caroline

The more I read the more likely I am to get it.

I work in an environment where I am in close contact with the general public on a daily basis.

I haven't actually got a clue when our surgery is eve n going to get the vaccines in, but I'm seeing mw on Thursday so will have a chat with her.

I'm thinking of wiating until 20 weeks tho, as it seems this is when u are @ greater risk.

Was watching chanel 5 this am & the GP on here said to wiat until 2nd tri when bubs is fully formed & developed, but the later are in pg you are the ther greater the risk of complications.

I also have 3 young children already 2 of which are asthmatic. 

The fact it gives newborn 6 months of immunity too is something of a positive too.

Excelllent thread. Will be watching everyones decision/experinces closely.


----------



## Bingles

I am exactly the same caroline I am thinking I will see if I can wait till I am 20 weeks then go get it I am going to see if I can talk to my gp first about it


----------



## chocomum

Hi, 

I have my appoinment for Pandemrix vaccination tomorrow. 
I change my mind as to whether to have this vaccine on an hourly basis.
I'm 30 weeks pregnant, asthmatic and have an 18 month old.
My husband and Mum both think i should take it due to the high rate of deaths in pregnant women.
I'll let you know how i get on tomorrow if i have the jab.

Good luck to all of you with making your decision. This is one of the toughest decisions i've ever had to make.
x


----------



## leelee

I don't think I will be getting the jab. I work from home and don't have any underlying health conditions so don't think I am that high risk. 

It is very scary though and I also haven't been offered the jab, or talked to my midwife about it. When I was 16 weeks pregnant I got the flu and had a temperature and the GP was willing to give me tamiflu if I wanted it. He didn't recommend it though as he said it was too soon to see any side effects.

I will be having a chat with my midwife when I see her at 28 weeks though.


----------



## mummyjax

Luuluu said:


> mummyjax said:
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> After just reading that yet another pregnant lady the same age as myself has died from Swine Flu in Manchester with no mention of other health complications, I think that the vaccine is the best option. No there is no guarantee that it will work or that it won't cause complications to the baby in years to come but at least the chances are you will be around to deal with them!
> 
> OMG I haven't heard about that lady. How old was she? My mind is slowly being changed to having the vaccine. My surgery hasn't even contacted me to even come in so who knows if I'll even be offered it. They're only getting 200 in anyway for 1000 patients so chances are slim anyway.
> I just don't know anymore....Click to expand...

The lady was 31 and her baby has survived but unfortunately she hasn't. Its a very scary prospect and making the decision to have the vaccine was not an easy one for me, had many a sleepless night but I am glad I have done it and hopefully protected myself and my baby! No doubt there will be consequences in the future once they know the effects of this vaccine but thats a chance I am willing to take to be here for my other two children. Good luck with whatever you decide. xxx


----------



## 2bananas

Im curious.......

after much reading, changing my mind back and forth, worrying myself ill - 

it seems we do not know IF there could be effects on the baby - likelyhood is probably not BUT

We KNOW if we got swine flu and had complications the danger of us dying as a result is higher.

I have a daughter to think about and partner and myself. I do not want to end up fighting for my life. I am 25 weeks, my baby is pretty much fully formed - what exact side effects to the baby are people thinking is going to happen? At the end of the day I would rather us all be alive - even if something is effected with the baby. Its just getting too scary now and its only going to get worse now we are in flu season.

I have decided I am getting the jab, its just not worth the gamble of loosing my life.


----------



## mummyjax

2bananas said:


> Im curious.......
> 
> after much reading, changing my mind back and forth, worrying myself ill -
> 
> it seems we do not know IF there could be effects on the baby - likelyhood is probably not BUT
> 
> We KNOW if we got swine flu and had complications the danger of us dying as a result is higher.
> 
> I have a daughter to think about and partner and myself. I do not want to end up fighting for my life. I am 25 weeks, my baby is pretty much fully formed - what exact side effects to the baby are people thinking is going to happen? At the end of the day I would rather us all be alive - even if something is effected with the baby. Its just getting too scary now and its only going to get worse now we are in flu season.
> 
> I have decided I am getting the jab, its just not worth the gamble of loosing my life.

I have to agree with you, if by some slim chance there are problems with the child in the future, rather that than for neither of us to be here and our other kids without a mother. It was the same with the MMR, I know it doesnt cause autism but with all the hype that it did I thought I would rather have a child with autism than one that had died from catching measles!


----------



## Luuluu

My mind STILL isn't 100% made up. I still don't know what's best. I WISH we knew of someone whose had the jab and HAD their baby and that both mother and baby are fine. Like i said, I wish we knew! we'll just have to wait and see...


----------



## Tricks26

I dont know what to do about this I was asked if i wanted it and given until the end of the week to let them know whats the general opinion to have or not to have !!!! thanks in advance xx


----------



## chocomum

I just had the Pandemrix jab an hour ago. No visible side effects so far. Can't help wondering whether i have done the right thing, but it's done now.

Tricks26, It's different for everyone. I decided to have it because i'm asthmatic, both myself and my husband commute on train/tube, we have an 18 month old to look after, and i'm 30 weeks pregnant so my breathing is becoming more comprimised as the bump grows. We felt that it was only a matter of time before i catch it. I am catching everything at the moment! 
However, we know that the vaccine could cause problems with our unborn child.
So I guess there is no right or wrong decision. You have to weigh up everything and see if it's the right thing for you/your family. I know it's not that easy - i changed my mind every half hour. Good luck x


----------



## nikkibr

i think i have decided to have it. a blunt way of looking at it i know but to me if you have swine flu you could die, if you have the injection it COULD cause harm to your baby but not necesarily. i personally love my life and dying is my worst nightmare. at the end of the day if my child does get soemthing wrong then all i was doing was protecting myself and themselves and i would rather hav a chil with maybe some harm done to it rather then not living at all and never having a child. yes i think my mind is made up. xx


----------



## surprisemummy

ill definately be getting this vaccine as i work with the general public in a health shop ( a lot of people who come in are ill :|) My mum works for the NHS and all the staff at the clinic she works in have given me their information about it and have told me it is definately worth getting. My mums actually getting it today along with the flu jab so im going to see how she gets on first. Ive been told that the H1N1 vaccine has been made in the same way as the normal flu jab is made which means there is unlikely to be any complications regarding the vaccine as none of the live virus is actually administered into your body, just the antibodys. Still a hard decision tho as you just dont know what affect it could have on your baby despite what medical staff tell you. xx


----------



## tinytoes1904

Hi all

Well I had my vaccine on saturday. Nothing to report except the most sorest arm ever EVER. I had my seasonal last week and it was not sore after at all, but this one is bloody sore! Anyone i know who has had it so far have all had a stiff sore arm for days too. Well if you seen the size of the needle on the thing you'd understand :winkwink: Anyway... everything seems to be ok so far. Friend of mine got it at the weekend too and her baby is due in 2 days! 

The midwife at the hospital I had my jab at said that tests have shown that the vaccine components do not pass the placenta. I questioned her then how does baby benefit from immunity for 6 months. She said because the antigens do pass to baby through blood and breastfeeding. Well thats what she said anyway.

Anyone else had it yet? There are alot of children around here coming down with it its making me really concerned for my 3 year old.


----------



## tinytoes1904

Luuluu said:


> mummyjax said:
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> After just reading that yet another pregnant lady the same age as myself has died from Swine Flu in Manchester with no mention of other health complications, I think that the vaccine is the best option. No there is no guarantee that it will work or that it won't cause complications to the baby in years to come but at least the chances are you will be around to deal with them!
> 
> OMG I haven't heard about that lady. How old was she? My mind is slowly being changed to having the vaccine. My surgery hasn't even contacted me to even come in so who knows if I'll even be offered it. They're only getting 200 in anyway for 1000 patients so chances are slim anyway.
> I just don't know anymore....Click to expand...

Lu if you havent been contacted and you decide to go ahead with the vaccine you call them and chase them up. Nearly all the preg women over here have had or are booked in for theirs already! Our maternity hospitals are doin ours and have a 7 day week clinic now, originally was only suppose to be sat n suns for 3 weeks but the uptake was so high theyve had to offer mon-fri now as well. The place was packed out with preggy ladies when i went on saturday.


----------



## mummyjax

nikkibr said:


> i think i have decided to have it. a blunt way of looking at it i know but to me if you have swine flu you could die, if you have the injection it COULD cause harm to your baby but not necesarily. i personally love my life and dying is my worst nightmare. at the end of the day if my child does get soemthing wrong then all i was doing was protecting myself and themselves and i would rather hav a chil with maybe some harm done to it rather then not living at all and never having a child. yes i think my mind is made up. xx

I am glad other people are thinking the same as me. My husband thinks I am getting myself in a state about nothing so can't discuss it with him!


----------



## gemini xo

i'm really worried about the swine flu, hope i don't get it! :( my doctor is doing these jabs too.


----------



## nikkibr

I am glad other people are thinking the same as me. My husband thinks I am getting myself in a state about nothing so can't discuss it with him![/QUOTE]

Hey, i know exactly how you feel! my boyfriend tells me im being stupid too. so i darnt talk to him, i havent told any one else yet about being pregnant so i havent spoke to them, its harding making a decsion like this on your own, but thats why im so glad about this site!! but today has definatly made me make my mind up. i phoned my docs today as i have heard nothing, the receptionist says that those at risk will be contacted, but ive got her to email the nurse to see if im allowed it. i should be gettina a call in the next couple of day. xxx


----------



## 2bananas

I spoke to my doctors today and the receptionist has told me they are still waiting to be advised on when the vaccine will be available.

while i have my mind made up i just want to get it... and quickly!


----------



## nikkibr

2bananas said:


> I spoke to my doctors today and the receptionist has told me they are still waiting to be advised on when the vaccine will be available.
> 
> while i have my mind made up i just want to get it... and quickly!

same here! i have made my mind up too and realy want it now! i told my bf today and he now wants me not to get it!! arghh why cant men ever say what you want them to say! xx


----------



## gem_

izzies_mom said:


> Hi all
> 
> Well I had my vaccine on saturday. Nothing to report except the most sorest arm ever EVER. I had my seasonal last week and it was not sore after at all, but this one is bloody sore! Anyone i know who has had it so far have all had a stiff sore arm for days too. Well if you seen the size of the needle on the thing you'd understand :winkwink: Anyway... everything seems to be ok so far. Friend of mine got it at the weekend too and her baby is due in 2 days!
> 
> The midwife at the hospital I had my jab at said that tests have shown that the vaccine components do not pass the placenta. I questioned her then how does baby benefit from immunity for 6 months. She said because the antigens do pass to baby through blood and breastfeeding. Well thats what she said anyway.
> 
> Anyone else had it yet? There are alot of children around here coming down with it its making me really concerned for my 3 year old.

Hi Izzies_mom - glad you're ok after having your jab. Was a little worried when we didn't hear from you as you said you were having it on the weekend and would let us know how it went. Did you have the Pandemrix after all, like you were expecting?

Also, were they vaccinating all pregnant women or just those in the 2nd and 3rd trimester? There seems to be some confusion about when's best to get it. I've decided to have it but am wondering if I should wait until I'm further along. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Caroline

U R at greatest risk of severe complications the later on in pg u r.

Personally I'm going to wait until I get to 20 weeks, although having said that don't even know when our surgeryh is getting the vaccine. I will talk to mw when I see her on Thurs.

They advise against getting the vaccine until u r in 2nd tri as baby is then fully formed & the organs fully formed.


----------



## 2bananas

2bananas said:


> I spoke to my doctors today and the receptionist has told me they are still waiting to be advised on when the vaccine will be available.
> 
> while i have my mind made up i just want to get it... and quickly!

ohhhh - just had a missed call and a message left on my phone - it was the doctor surgery asking me to contact them in regards to the vaccine - Thats a quick turn around from a few hours previous! tried to call them but the lines were closed. Going to call in the morning. Feel positively sick now!


----------



## 2bananas

also - 


found this article interesting - dont know if its already posted x

https://healthnewsdigest.com/news/G...ry_Expectant_Mother_Should_Know_printer.shtml


----------



## AimeeM

I think i am going to get it. I would choose a life with a child be him disabled or not than risk no life at all for us and no mum for my son or wife for my husband.
Swine flu is mild in most pregnant women but is it worth the risk? I don't really think so.

I will discuss this at my 24 week appointment but i am almost sure now i will get it.

I will let you know what my midwife and doctor say tomorrow.


----------



## bailey98

Great thread ladies, i got a letter from my doctors today offering me an appointment for next week and it really freaked me out! I've only got a few weeks until im due so im not sure its worth it but on the other hand my immune system has been so crap the last few months maybe it is best to get it. 
I've got 3 other children who need there mum and if im being honest i think i will get it, i've got my mw appointment the day before so will check what she thinks but i want my mind at ease now, me getting sick just as or after the baby arrives is just something i dont think i can deal with.


----------



## AimeeM

Oh dear! I think i have changed my mind again but i wont post the link as it is too controversial!


----------



## leelee

AimeeM said:


> Oh dear! I think i have changed my mind again but i wont post the link as it is too controversial!

Can you pm the link to me. I would like to read all sides, even controversial ones


----------



## bailey98

oh god, i feel like im going crazy, why cant they come up with something that is 100% safe.


----------



## JessiHD

bailey98 said:


> oh god, i feel like im going crazy, why cant they come up with something that is 100% safe.

Nothing is, whether you are pregnant or not...


----------



## tinytoes1904

glad you're ok after having your jab. Was a little worried when we didn't hear from you as you said you were having it on the weekend and would let us know how it went. Did you have the Pandemrix after all, like you were expecting?

Also, were they vaccinating all pregnant women or just those in the 2nd and 3rd trimester? There seems to be some confusion about when's best to get it. I've decided to have it but am wondering if I should wait until I'm further along. Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]



Oh sorry Gem, I didnt mean to worry anyone, I just didnt want to come straight on sayin all ok until Id given it a few days! I had pandemrix.
The advice here is that the vaccine is fine for all trimesters. They were vaccinating them all in our hospitals. It was one of my main questions about the apparent immune response caused, and one of my reasons was cos I didnt want my system to go crazy and flare my crohns as this would be very risky for baby too. They assured me that the immune response would not be anywhere near enough to cause a miscarriage or my crohns to flare. Hope that helps. Oh and my crohns would usually be straight into nightmareness if I forget my immunosuppressants (went on holiday for a week and forgot them in the summer) and so far no pain or bother :thumbup:

I have yet to speak to a consultant or midwife who have any concern at all about baby and the vaccine. One actually was appalled that I would suggest they would allow us to get something that would harm baby. She made a right song and dance about it going on about ethics etc. I only asked like but she was clearly annoyed about it. She said she had a duty of care to her patients and told me right off!


----------



## Luuluu

AimeeM said:


> Oh dear! I think i have changed my mind again but i wont post the link as it is too controversial!

Hi AimeeM

Pleeeease can you post it on here? We need all the info we can get no matter how controversial!!!! If not, please could you send it to me????

Thanks hun xxx


----------



## Bingles

mummyjax said:


> nikkibr said:
> 
> 
> i think i have decided to have it. a blunt way of looking at it i know but to me if you have swine flu you could die, if you have the injection it COULD cause harm to your baby but not necesarily. i personally love my life and dying is my worst nightmare. at the end of the day if my child does get soemthing wrong then all i was doing was protecting myself and themselves and i would rather hav a chil with maybe some harm done to it rather then not living at all and never having a child. yes i think my mind is made up. xx
> 
> I am glad other people are thinking the same as me. My husband thinks I am getting myself in a state about nothing so can't discuss it with him!Click to expand...

This is why I am getting it too :flower:


----------



## tonyamanda

Today I asked my doctor if i needed the jab... he said no.. not now.. He doesn't think its necessary... It hasn't been out that long and he hasn't recommended it to any of his pregnant patience.. Hes only recommending it to the elderly or people who have "health problems" he said if i had an heath issue such as severe asthma, etc then he would certainly recommend it. good luck with everyones decisions..


----------



## 2bananas

well, im just back from the doctors.

Had to go and give a urine sample, i feel like I have a water infection (kidney area sore and aching) but apparently thats in my imagination :) 

so anyway while i was there i probed my gp for half an hour on the vaccination - she seemed well chuffed i had walked in today asking a million questions with the huge amount of people in the surgery.

Anyway after lots of questions later and her trying to be as careful with what she said as possible and not give me a straight answer regarding her recommendation and just printing off as much info as she had on it for me to read, I was given the very strong impression that she thinks I shouldn't have it. The fact that she wouldn't say she thinks it is a good idea for me to have it has made me worry and after my mind being made up last night that I would have it I am now back to square 1 and dont know.

I have however booked an appointment to have the vaccine on the 17th november so I have a little while to decide for definite.

I asked about trials on pregnant women and what effects I should be worrying about that could happen to the baby and she quite simply said that 'the vaccine hasnt been around long enough to have carried out trials which could gather this sort of evidence'

The one thing she did mention which terrified me was that in some cases the danger to mother and baby is Guillaume barre syndrome https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Guillaume+Barry+Syndrome 

which I hadnt even heard of or knew as a risk from the vaccine - she did say however that it was a small risk but one to be considered.

So here closing statement to me was she was sorry that she couldnt be more help and that she is glad she is not pregnant and having to consider the vaccine.

I dont know what to do anymore.

Thing is aswell - if I did get swine flu, whats to say it wouldnt be a mild case and that a course of relenza wont be good enough?

As you can tell from my varying posts my mind is all over the place.

I just wish that this vaccine was safe :(


----------



## gills8752

I've decided not to have the vaccine should I be offered it. I'm a perfectly healthy person, just with a big baby belly! :haha: 
I've been in indirect contact with H1N1 recently, my hubby's work has had it going round his section of the office and neither of us has caught anything. My mum had it last month, recovered from it and stayed with me after 2 days of being clear and we're both fine.
If either of us normally gets something fluey then it's my hubby first as he seems to have a weak chest and he's been perfectly fine despite all the contact.
I'm not one for taking a lot of medicines and will always prefer to go a natural route whether it be lying in bed with lots of fluids or aromatherapy etc. I don't tend to pay attention to the do's and don't of eating during pregnancy. So if anything materialises I'll banish myself to bed with lots of fluids and demand hot water bottles and foot rubs. :cloud9:

Although I think if you have an underlying medical condition then it would be wise to fully consider the vaccine as from what I've seen from the media the majority of fatality's have been from people with underlying health problems. 

And lastly I think we should all stop stressing...its a nasty strain of flu...not cancer. :hugs::kiss:


----------



## Luuluu

I just wanted to pop this on here as it's what my Doctor was telling me about when he said what his main worries would be about taking the jab. When I wrote about my docs visit (p.1 or 2) I couldn't remember the name of it. But here it is!!! 

What's VERY INTERESTING is that Swine flu was around in 1976-1977!!! It's not NEW! 

Guillain-Barré Syndrome 

Definition

Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) causes progressive muscle weakness and paralysis (the complete inability to use a particular muscle or muscle group), which develops over days or up to four weeks, and lasts several weeks or even months.

Description

The classic scenario in GBS involves a patient who has just recovered from a typical, seemingly uncomplicated viral infection. Symptoms of muscle weakness appear one to four weeks later. The most common preceding infections are cytomegalovirus, herpes, Epstein-Barr virus, and viral hepatitis. A gastrointestinal infection with the bacteria Campylobacter jejuni is also common and may cause a severe type of GBS from which it is particularly difficult to recover. About 5% of GBS patients have a surgical procedure as a preceding event. Patients with lymphoma, systemic lupus erythematosus, or AIDS have a higher than normal risk of GBS. Other GBS patients have recently received an immunization, while still others have no known preceding event. In 197677, there was a vastly increased number of GBS cases among people who had been recently vaccinated against the Swine flu. The reason for this phenomenon has never been identified, and no other flu vaccine has caused such an increase in GBS cases.


----------



## gem_

Hi everyone,

I spoke to my GP surgery today and they still don't know when or if they are going to get Celvapan. So I made the decision to book an appointment to have Pandemrix on Tuesday 17th November. I'm happy with my decision and my family are so relieved as I come into contact with sick patients on a daily basis and have my 2 year old son to also consider.

On another forum site I came across this useful link which is a copy of a letter sent out from the Department of Health to all GPs specifically about pregnant women and the swine flu vaccine. I've never posted a link before, so apologies if it doesn't work. The website is https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_107825.pdf
You may have to copy and paste it into your browser sorry!


----------



## gills8752

Funny I just read this thread today and I've just had a phone call from my student midwife offering me the jab! :haha:


----------



## nikkibr

gem_ said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I spoke to my GP surgery today and they still don't know when or if they are going to get Celvapan. So I made the decision to book an appointment to have Pandemrix on Tuesday 17th November. I'm happy with my decision and my family are so relieved as I come into contact with sick patients on a daily basis and have my 2 year old son to also consider.
> 
> On another forum site I came across this useful link which is a copy of a letter sent out from the Department of Health to all GPs specifically about pregnant women and the swine flu vaccine. I've never posted a link before, so apologies if it doesn't work. The website is https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_107825.pdf
> You may have to copy and paste it into your browser sorry!

hey i tried the link at it doesnt work is there any way else i can view it? xx


----------



## mummyjax

I tried the link and it works, it may be that you don't have Adobe Reader on your machine!


----------



## Bingles

I am getting the jab on friday and even tho I am not totaly sold on it I am happier knowing I am getting it


----------



## nncole

Thanks ladies for all these comments, they are very helpful, I am in the UK and the vaccine here i believe is different than in the US, can anyone tell me what is had in the US as i have heard that this has been tested for a longer period of time and on pregnant ladies and is a 2 dose, unlike the UK 1 dose version - please correct me if i am wrong

26 weeks and counting down!!


----------



## nectarina

This is the best thread I have found about this subject... I was very unsured last night about whether to get the jab or not (I am 25 weeks pregnant) but after reading the whole thread I have made my mind up and made an appointment to have it next week...
As many of you said, there could be a risk of side effects (which still has to be proved, anyway) but there is also a big risk of me catching it later on in my pregnancy and getting very poorly and having a negative effect on my baby. I also have a 2 year old and I cannot afford to be ill and not being there for her...
I think I am relieved now... I might still change my mind from now to next week, but will probably go ahead... I will keep checking this thread for any of you having had the vaccine and your reactions... this is such an useful forum, thanks!


----------



## buttons27

I seem to change my mind constantly on whether to get the jab or not but seem to be swaying more to getting it after reading everything on here.

The way i see it is i'd rather be here to love and care for a child with problems (which no one knows if there'l actually be any) than leave my baby without a mother.. 
Yes, I could not get the jab and be perfectly fine and not get sick, but i'm not sure if i'm willing to risk the chance of leaving my baby.
Numerous healthy pregnant women have died already and i don't fancy adding to those numbers. 
Plus do these things not just get worse over the winter months anyway? 

No doubt my mind'l change again tomorrow though!x


----------



## 2bananas

Glad im not the only one who is still undecided. Only 12 days to go until I have to make my mind up cant believe after how much I was convinced i would get it to now be deliberating again :(

Please please - anyone having the vaccine- can you keep us posted when you have it and how you are doing afterwards

thanks x


----------



## nectarina

I am having it next Wednesday, and would love to hear from more pregnant women having had it before I do it myself! Just to be a bit more reassured...


----------



## lainyp0ps

I'm in Dublin and had the Celveplan vaccination on Wednesday. I'm 21 weeks pregnant and I've been feeling absolutely fine since getting it. I was a bit tired after getting it but I think that was mainly because I was stressing about it so much. Bubs is as active as ever so no issues there either.
After all the research and toing and froing, I just went with my gut in the end and I'm glad that I did.


----------



## mummyjax

Hi 

Thats a week since I have had Pandemrix and still fine, the baby is still active. The sore arm has gone, been left with a small lump under the skin much like kids do after their MMR which will proabably go in time.


----------



## travellinglad

Hi ladies,

Just to let you know that I had my swine flu (pandremix) jab and hour ago. So far so good. The lady there told us that it seems to be most dangerous in ladies who have just given birth and catch the flu while their immune systems are very low. It seems that the newborns are less affected than the Mum's. She also said that small amounts of antigens pass through to the baby through the placenta but they get most of their protection from breastfeeding. Another great reason breast is best :winkwink:

My husband made a great statement when I was deciding whether to get this or not:
"Think about the present or else there might not be a future"

Now all I have to decide about it whether to get my two young girls the shot:wacko:

I will keep you updated on how sore the arm gets!!
Good luck once again to all of you still unsure.


----------



## Luuluu

This is great that people are posting how their going after the jab - thank you so much for keeping us updated.

xxx


----------



## rottiemiss

I got an out of the blue phonecall about an hour and a half ago from my GP surgery offering me an appt to get the vaccine as they have just received their batch. So I'm booked in for next wednesday. I totally forgot to ask which one it was, will try to remember next wednesday and let you know.
I was on team no but over the past few weeks I've been reading the posts on here and I have googled it too and weighed up the pro's and cons we decided today when they phoned to go ahead.
Hubby is very relieved that I changed my mind!


----------



## gem_

nikkibr said:


> gem_ said:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I spoke to my GP surgery today and they still don't know when or if they are going to get Celvapan. So I made the decision to book an appointment to have Pandemrix on Tuesday 17th November. I'm happy with my decision and my family are so relieved as I come into contact with sick patients on a daily basis and have my 2 year old son to also consider.
> 
> On another forum site I came across this useful link which is a copy of a letter sent out from the Department of Health to all GPs specifically about pregnant women and the swine flu vaccine. I've never posted a link before, so apologies if it doesn't work. The website is https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_107825.pdf
> You may have to copy and paste it into your browser sorry!
> 
> hey i tried the link at it doesnt work is there any way else i can view it? xxClick to expand...

Hi Nikkibr,

I've sent you an e-mail with the letter in. Let me know if you receive it ok.


----------



## nikkibr

hey gem, yes i did thank you so much, im defo gettin the jab! xx


----------



## tinyk

Hi Ladies,
I am new to this forum,but have been reading these posts as i had the pandemrix vaccine yesterday.I was worried about the side effects as i was the first pregnant lady in my surgery to get it and dont know any other pregnant ladies at the moment.The only side effect i seem to have is a red achy arm where the jab went in.I am 26 weeks pregnant and my baby is still playing rugby in there as much as before! So i feel a little less worried but just wandering if anyone knows how long it takes to get in to your system to start working,and would all of the side effects shown up by now?


----------



## gem_

Hi tinyK,

I believe you start producing antibodies to the vaccine immediately but an appropriate level of immunity is reached around 10-21 days after administration. Can't remember where I read this info sorry. I would have thought most side-effects would show up much sooner than that though. I wouldn't worry. Most people who've had it just had a sore arm!


----------



## Caroline

Spoke to mw today who was neither use nor ornament. Said she hasn't read all the various reports on the pros & cons 'cos its too confusing!

Said our surgery isn't likely to start vaccinating pg women for at least 4-6 weeks as she doesn't think they've had any in yet to vaccinate high risk gropups.

So will defo be 20+ weeks b4 I get mine.


----------



## JessiHD

Something to consider: 3000-4000 people die from seasonal flu every year but we aren't being immunised for that. The infection rate of swine flu in pregnant women is no higher than those who are not pregnant, however the chances of complications requiring hospitalisation are higher which is the same as seasonal flu.


----------



## AmyMarie

One of my friends just had the vaccine yesterday and she is really ill today, couldnt get out of the bed. Plus is having a pain in her arm :S:S:S:S
Dont know if im gonna get mine either, no set way on how our bodies will take it :S


----------



## neady

just thought id let you no i had the jab today and am totally fine. the nurse tht give it me was pregnant and told me she had it straight away.
its not just the death of pregnant women but all the unreported cases tht are hidden about those who have had swine flu and have still births or serious complications. 
to be honest im now glad i had it x


----------



## Luuluu

AmyMarie said:


> One of my friends just had the vaccine yesterday and she is really ill today, couldnt get out of the bed. Plus is having a pain in her arm :S:S:S:S
> Dont know if im gonna get mine either, no set way on how our bodies will take it :S

OMG how badly ill is she? Is she pregnant too?


----------



## 2bananas

Luuluu said:


> AmyMarie said:
> 
> 
> One of my friends just had the vaccine yesterday and she is really ill today, couldnt get out of the bed. Plus is having a pain in her arm :S:S:S:S
> Dont know if im gonna get mine either, no set way on how our bodies will take it :S
> 
> OMG how badly ill is she? Is she pregnant too?Click to expand...

Pain in the arn is reported as being normal and everyone should expect this, this alone is not a worry.

However - what are her symptoms other than the sore arm? Just curious, this is the first post I have seen so far where someone has been unwell after it and if you could let us know more that would be really helpful. Does she think there is something seriously wrong - let us know her progress, please x


----------



## travellinglad

Hi

Update:
I had mine yesterday and my arm felt really sore last night, but as bad today. I had a headache this morning (could be coincidence mind) and now at 4.00pm I feel really tired. I have a 2 little ones and my Dad is visiting and I haven't stopped all day so the tiredness could be due to that. Other than that I feel fine and bubsy is kicking up a storm today so no worries there.

The nurse giving the Jab said it would be around 10days give or take a few to get fully immunised.

Feeling a huge relief that I had it done and I can stop worrying.


----------



## AmyMarie

*Hi LuuLuu and 2bananas,

 Just got an update on my friend, She still has a sore arm, she says she has a swollen neck and has the sniffles, she was supposed to do a fashion show tonight but cant go now. She's aprox 17+ weeks preg. Feel so sorry for her as far as ive read from ppls storys, they have had very little side effects.
* ​


----------



## nikkibr

hey, just phoned my dr, they are apparently having an open clinic at the drs surgery on sat 14th, where if i want it i can just turn up! im defo set on having it, but i am still scared about whether or not its the right decision. i think it is for me as i am the biggest worrier ever and i've got things planned like going to see shows and stuff and am even worrying about catching swine flu from being in a hall with hundreds of other ppl!! xx


----------



## deobi

AmyMarie said:


> One of my friends just had the vaccine yesterday and she is really ill today, couldnt get out of the bed. Plus is having a pain in her arm :S:S:S:S
> Dont know if im gonna get mine either, no set way on how our bodies will take it :S

everyone is different. I felt perfect after and the follwoing days but my hubby felt off, tired, achy etc....still better than getting the flu.

having a really bad time is likely rare, although possible but don't let that be your deciding factor. I'm not saying get it, but decide on the risks, your values etc...


----------



## Bingles

I had my injection today got the celvapan and I am fine. I did have a sore back for a while but the leaflet we got with it said it could cause musscle pain but then again it could have been the walk to the hospital and the load I am carrying lol. I was unsure about getting it even going in but now I got the celvapan I was a lot happier and tbh I am glad I got it now I might be called for a booster but thats fine I would deffo get it again


----------



## Luuluu

So far people seem to be ok. Please keep 'em coming! xxx


----------



## beth194

Hi,

I haven't posted here for ages, but have been wondering about other pregnant ladies side effects and got brought here. 

Known side effects are listed here 


I had the Pandemrix on Thursday afternoon, and was absolutely fine, until bedtime, when I tried to lie on my arm. :'(
I found it extremely sore, and woke up Friday morning to a nice red lump just by the injection site. 
It's still sore now, and the area around the site is still inflamed. 

I've also been sick, which could be completely unrelated to the injection. 

Baby is still booting me around, so I'm confident all is ok.







I've thought long and hard, and asked loads of different people. I've been told I'm putting my baby at unnecessary risk by having it, but I'm an adult and I had to weigh everything up. 

I'm 37 weeks pregnant on Monday, so although I may not be pregnant for too much longer, I'll still have labour, and birth and a newborn baby. 
IMO, baby needs Mammy, as I'll be breastfeeding (non-negotiable atm), and I could hardly leave baby without me. 
I also have my partner and a 4 year old, who are also at risk from catching it... Baby will not need them as much. 
At least if either of them get it, I'm not at risk and can therefore look after them, and baby.. Obviously as seperately as possible. 


HTH

Beth


----------



## alibaba24

Pink_Tinks said:


> i havent been offered it yet but i assume i will be in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> I really dont know what to do, i am actually nearly in tears (bloody hormones...!) over this, because i dont want to not have the jab and risk getting flu and harming my baby, but i dont want to get the jab which doesnt seem to have been tested enough and deemed totally safe if in a month or so there is going to be an outbreak of problems for those who have had it!
> 
> i know that immune systems are meant to get weaker during pregnancy, but i actually believe mine is stronger. I get everything and anything, and i have been totally fine for the past 6 months, even being round people with illnesses - three people at work who have actualy had swine flu!
> 
> i also know that there are loads of pregnant women on here who have had swine flu and are fine!
> 
> Gosh why does this have to happen now?!?!? :-(

I feel the same :cry: im so torn theres so much information on it my gut instinct is to say no......it may well seem ok now but how many women have given birth to healthy babies after having it???????? :cry:

so confused

xx


----------



## quail

i had mine on friday and all i have is a sore arm no ill effects so ,so far so good.xxx


----------



## cl8703

glad to see some of you have had it and are feeling well. im a practice nurse and have been threatened to be deployed if i dont have the swine flu vaccine


----------



## gem_

cl8703 said:


> glad to see some of you have had it and are feeling well. im a practice nurse and have been threatened to be deployed if i dont have the swine flu vaccine


That's not fair! Surely it's your decision to make. I didn't think anyone could be forced into having it. As a practice nurse have many pregnant women from your practice had the vaccine?


----------



## cl8703

we only got them delivered 10 days ago and staff have only been vaccinated to date. they will obviously be getting invites , pregnant women at the surgery are seen by the midwife who only comes in twice a week on an afternoon so she is their main contact. not managed to discuss with her yet her personal view point. We have an in house pharmacist practitioner at our surgery who states the main cause of concern is GBS and the fact that new products are never tested on pregnant women as a rule. He does believe however the risk still to be low- ill have to ask him the actual statistics. 
It isnt fair that im being (indirectly) threatened of being deployed as that completely takes away my consent and personal choice. I want to have it and be happy with my own decision rather have it due to being forced.

My parents live in california,- mum is a snr nurse- a lot of pregnant women have had the celvapan ( pretty sure its celvapan- not using pandemrx in us) injection with no ill effects and they are happy with their decision. there is speculation however amongst women over the pond that it may be dangerous in the first trimester.

Its very hard even from a healthcare professional viewpoint as its common knowledge that it cannot be deemed 100% safe. i think its a case of outweighing the pros and cons and it remains a very personal decision.


----------



## marie-louise

I had it on tuesday and apart from a sore arm and swollen/bruised injection site, and sore finger joints which are all common side effects I feel fine, the nurse told me that there was almost a 100% uptake in it at my hospital. I have also been told that pregnant women are 4 times more likely to have severe complications after swine flu, A local lady almost died with it and her prem baby was left alone in the local hosp while she was in London getting treated and her whole family also went as they were expecting the worst! I did it for my baby, I want to be here for it.


----------



## chocomum

After alot of changing my mind, I had my Pandemrix jab 5 days ago. I'm 31 weeks pregnant. Had a sore arm for a few days but no other side effects so far. The nurse said it will take 2 weeks for immunity to build up. My baby is also still kicking about alot. So fingers crossed that she/he will be ok in the long run.
The day after I got my jab my husband started the flu. We dont know whether it was swine flu or normal seasonal flu. He's been confined to his bedroom for days as he doesn't want to give it to me or our 18 month old. He's slowly getting better now and hopefully we wont catch it.


----------



## Luuluu

I wonder how women and their babies are who've had the jab and given birth. I guess we'll have to wait a few months to see.

Fingers crossed everyone's ok from having it.

x


----------



## franiss

Zarababy1 said:


> I think If im offerd it in time, after reading quite a bit about it i will get it, I dont know i mean its a really hard choice to make but i think after reading most things i'd have to go with yes, partly because altho yes there could be risks involved with it i dont really want too risk getting it late in pregnancy and becoming very ill possibly dieing when i have a small child too think about, Too me at the moment im afraid Charlie comes first and if its going to maybe prevent me from beeing ill so im here for him then i think i'd have to go for it, for me now tho its to decided if i want him to have it or not!
> Really hard desisions but this thread seems too have helped me cheers x

My thoughts exactly, have almost decided i am having it for the sake of my son, but the next hurdle is if he is having it! Right now my son is my priority
xx


----------



## franiss

JessiHD said:


> Something to consider: 3000-4000 people die from seasonal flu every year but we aren't being immunised for that. The infection rate of swine flu in pregnant women is no higher than those who are not pregnant, however the chances of complications requiring hospitalisation are higher which is the same as seasonal flu.

Although pregnant women may not be more likely to catch swine flu than normal flu the risks are higher with swine flu. My GP said the difference with swine flu is that it is dangerous for pregnant women and those under 14 whereas the seasonal flu is more of a threat to the over 65's. Different flu strains have different effects and according to my GP the worrying thing with the swine flu is the way it is affecting pregnant women and under 14s.


----------



## JessiHD

franiss said:


> JessiHD said:
> 
> 
> Something to consider: 3000-4000 people die from seasonal flu every year but we aren't being immunised for that. The infection rate of swine flu in pregnant women is no higher than those who are not pregnant, however the chances of complications requiring hospitalisation are higher which is the same as seasonal flu.
> 
> Although pregnant women may not be more likely to catch swine flu than normal flu the risks are higher with swine flu. My GP said the difference with swine flu is that it is dangerous for pregnant women and those under 14 whereas the seasonal flu is more of a threat to the over 65's. Different flu strains have different effects and according to my GP the worrying thing with the swine flu is the way it is affecting pregnant women and under 14s.Click to expand...

Pregnant women ARE more likely to develop pneumonia and heart & lung complications with seasonal flu, mainly in the third trimester:

https://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1247816600220

As I've said, if you have any complications such as asthma or heart problems it is very sensible to take he vaccine. I personally don't have any of these and don't think that I trust a safety trial conducted on less than 400 people enough to take it just because I'm pregnant.


----------



## 2bananas

https://www.nhs.uk/news/Documents/Swine Flu- Pregnancy Clinical Guidelines.pdf


Found this information really helpful to me.

I feel like I am not going to have the vaccine at the moment. 

After picking up on a few facts from this info and others.

80% of the people who have been admitted to hospital HAD NOT started anti viral treatment within 48 hours of their symptoms starting - 
personally, if i start feeling unwell I will be down the doctors faster than my feet can carry me to be swabbed.

The next article is talking about deaths in the u.s - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/...women-are-at-greater-risk-from-swine-flu.html

Dr Jamieson wrote: &#8220;Although the decision to admit a pregnant woman is complex and might include considerations beyond simply the severity of disease, that a high proportion (>10 per cent) of influenza-related deaths in the USA have been in pregnant women is concerning. 

"In the previous influenza pandemics of 1918 and 1957, mortality seemed to be higher in pregnant women than in non-pregnant populations." 

She added: &#8220;CDC recommendations for pregnant patients are that antiviral drugs be started as soon as possible after the onset of influenza symptoms. 

"The benefit is expected to be greatest if started within 48 h of onset... However, many pregnant women in our series were not treated with either of these drugs at the time of their presentation with influenza-like illness. "Furthermore, none of those who died were treated within 48 hours of illness onset.&#8221; 


The above paragraph is taken from that article.

Also - 6 pregnant women have died in the uk from swine flu - there are on average around 650,000 live births in the uk each year - plus any women who sadly miscarry/have stillborn babies. So, if the chances of dying currently stand at roughly 1 in 100,000 for pregnant women - I dont see these as drastic odds, but obviously someone has to be 'the one'

Most cases of swine flu ARE mild and if treated for your symptoms early enough you are likely to makle full recovery without complications.

There have been roughly 154 deaths related to swine flu - is it not just a fact of life that a percentage of these are going to fall into the pregnant category? What is to say that these women wouldnt have suffered complications should they not have been pregnant - and how many of them had started anti virals within that 48 hour window?

Im apologising for rambling on - I have been 'for the vaccine', 'against the vaccine' back and forth so many times that after everything I have read I wanted to put it all down in words so I can read it back and see how I feel about my thinking.

I still have an appointment booked for the vaccine on the 17th, but I feel like its not right for me.

My other reason - which some may think im silly, but I really beleive I have a very strong immune system. I ahve never had flu. I have been ill once this year - I got tonsilitis and couldnt move for 2 days then was back on my feet and fine again. My other half got tonsilitis the week later and was off work for almost a week - men!!! Also, last november my daughter 4, and my other half both came down with flu- I was so scared for them both, they were drastic. So I was running around after them, trying to do all i could, I was so run down with tiredness, but I never got what they had and they were both really bad for about 5 days until the improvement started. I still do not know how I managed to not come down with this.

So at the moment I feel that I am in the 'no vaccine camp'

Also, I do not know 1 person who has had swine flu within my family/friends and I know if they did I wouldn't be visiting them and if I had seen them recently would be going to get anti virals.

There are loads of people (pregnant included) who have had swine flu and recovered, is this flu really causing more death than seasonal flu which I have never known anyone who is pregnant to be vaccinated against.


So, im just off to read this back to myself and see how i feel. I feel good for writing it all down now anyway!

x


----------



## gem_

2bananas - You say "if i start feeling unwell I will be down the doctors faster than my feet can carry me to be swabbed". I assume that is just a figure of speech as anyone with swine flu symptoms have to stay at home and not present at their doctor's surgery which would risk passing the virus on to whoever's in the surgery, some of which may be very vulnerable patients. I am a pharmacist and have been appalled by how many patients have come into my pharmacy with flu like symptoms even though we, like the doctors surgery, have clear signs on the door saying DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS. The advice is to stay at home, ring your GP or Swine flu helpline number and if a script for antivirals is deemed necessary ask a symptomless flu buddy to collect the script on your behalf. I apologise if what you said was just a figure of speech, but I'm sure everyone realises the importance of this procedure to stop the spread of the virus and it does seem from my experience many people aren't aware of this.

Also, I wouldn't put too much faith in the antivirals if I was you - they only reduce the length of the illness by one day and can have nasty side-effects. Just thought you all should know the facts so you can come to an informed decision x


----------



## 2bananas

gem_ said:


> 2bananas - You say "if i start feeling unwell I will be down the doctors faster than my feet can carry me to be swabbed". I assume that is just a figure of speech as anyone with swine flu symptoms have to stay at home and not present at their doctor's surgery which would risk passing the virus on to whoever's in the surgery, some of which may be very vulnerable patients. I am a pharmacist and have been appalled by how many patients have come into my pharmacy with flu like symptoms even though we, like the doctors surgery, have clear signs on the door saying DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS. The advice is to stay at home, ring your GP or Swine flu helpline number and if a script for antivirals is deemed necessary ask a symptomless flu buddy to collect the script on your behalf. I apologise if what you said was just a figure of speech, but I'm sure everyone realises the importance of this procedure to stop the spread of the virus and it does seem from my experience many people aren't aware of this.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't put too much faith in the antivirals if I was you - they only reduce the length of the illness by one day and can have nasty side-effects. Just thought you all should know the facts so you can come to an informed decision x

yes, as I also work in a pharmacy I do know this and the procedure and it was a figure of speech. The anti virals do work by also reducing your chances of developing complications and would be concerned at a pharmacist warning people against them, I am unsure which facts you have offered us to make an informed decision from your post as I cant see any and given how difficult this decision - all i did was write my feelings down, mostly for my benefit and you have made me feel quite upset actually. Your whole tone is just judgemental and telling me off - I didnt ask for that did I?


----------



## mummypeanut

spoke to my GP last week and he said he couldnt advise me about whether to have the vaccine because there has been no testing. Im fine with that - i have asthma and im in 2nd tri so i will be getting it.

The interesting bit that he said was that theyve recieved 500 doses for their surgery and there are 1,300 people on thier books to vaccinate. They havent been given a timetable for further deliveries. His advice was, if you want the vaccine take it when its offered because there are no guarantee's you will be able to get hold of it any time soon. 

I dont know if thats a local issue to me in warwickshire or if similar situations are playing out nationally in the UK.

Because of this conversation im not holding out for celvepan, im gonna go with the pandemrix next week (assuming im not one of the people who gets cancelled due to not enough doses). 

Good luck to everyone what ever your decsision


----------



## Luuluu

Hey 2Bananas

I love your post! Thank you for that - very informative which is what we need on here. I hope that by writing it all down it's helped you conclude that your decision is the right one for you. 

Keep up the information!!

Thanks again
xxxx


----------



## Caroline

Our surgery hasn't had any vaccine in yet, not even the vulnerable groups have been vaccinated.

I don't understand how in some areas they are rolling out vaccinating pg women yet in other areas vulnerable haven't been vaccinated yet. Surely they should ensure vaccination across the board for vunerable groups first, then pg women etc.

At this rate I won't even be offered a vaccine cos ppl @ loer rixsk in other areas will have been vaccinated first.

Typical of this government tho doin it half assed. Surely they should find out from surgeries approxiamte nos of ppl in each gp, then supply enough vaccines in batched to nationally vaccinate each gp over a set time scale.

I don't begrudge any pg woman who has already been vaccinated far from it, what I will be pretty fed up with is if less vulnerable ppl get vaccinated in other areas b4 we even get the damn vaccine.

I think it is avery tough & very personal decision. I am watchinhg this thread intently tho to see how this progresses.


----------



## callmepoppy

2bananas said:


> gem_ said:
> 
> 
> 2bananas - You say "if i start feeling unwell I will be down the doctors faster than my feet can carry me to be swabbed". I assume that is just a figure of speech as anyone with swine flu symptoms have to stay at home and not present at their doctor's surgery which would risk passing the virus on to whoever's in the surgery, some of which may be very vulnerable patients. I am a pharmacist and have been appalled by how many patients have come into my pharmacy with flu like symptoms even though we, like the doctors surgery, have clear signs on the door saying DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS. The advice is to stay at home, ring your GP or Swine flu helpline number and if a script for antivirals is deemed necessary ask a symptomless flu buddy to collect the script on your behalf. I apologise if what you said was just a figure of speech, but I'm sure everyone realises the importance of this procedure to stop the spread of the virus and it does seem from my experience many people aren't aware of this.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't put too much faith in the antivirals if I was you - they only reduce the length of the illness by one day and can have nasty side-effects. Just thought you all should know the facts so you can come to an informed decision x
> 
> yes, as I also work in a pharmacy I do know this and the procedure and it was a figure of speech. The anti virals do work by also reducing your chances of developing complications and would be concerned at a pharmacist warning people against them, I am unsure which facts you have offered us to make an informed decision from your post as I cant see any and given how difficult this decision - all i did was write my feelings down, mostly for my benefit and you have made me feel quite upset actually. Your whole tone is just judgemental and telling me off - I didnt ask for that did I?Click to expand...


Gem_ did say she apologised if it was a figure of speech hun and just wanted to stress the importance to everyone of not going to the docs if they had flu symptoms. I wouldnt get upset. I dont think it was meant badly to you.

however people must remember that with bad and good on both camps that there is no right or wrong and sometimes your info/posts/opinions will be questioned by others as they try to come to a decision.

People need to try and not take these questions or opinions as slights as this is how threads like this get out of hand and up till now this thread has been very informative.

:flower:


----------



## cl8703

I spoke with a nurse consultant today from public health department. She was lovely and very unbiased. she directed me to the DoH recent publication (November 2nd)- questions and answers sheet which i very reassuring. She said she has been doing a lot of research on the subject. A lot of women have been vaccinated in Australia with Pandemrix- no contraindications have been noted- the only deaths have been in women who have not been vaccinated. I have a friend who has had swine flu and she said she felt like she could breathe- so where do we stand as pregnant women with our lung function- esp in second and third trimesters.
I have decided to go for the pandemrix- ideally i would have gone for the non-adjuvented but the turn over would probably be 6 weeks for full immunity ( can only have 1st dose in 3 weeks) therefore i may already have caught it by then.
I am glad to have made my decision - finally.


----------



## mummypeanut

cl8703 said:


> I spoke with a nurse consultant today from public health department. She was lovely and very unbiased. she directed me to the DoH recent publication (November 2nd)- questions and answers sheet which i very reassuring. She said she has been doing a lot of research on the subject. A lot of women have been vaccinated in Australia with Pandemrix- no contraindications have been noted- the only deaths have been in women who have not been vaccinated. I have a friend who has had swine flu and she said she felt like she could breathe- so where do we stand as pregnant women with our lung function- esp in second and third trimesters.
> I have decided to go for the pandemrix- ideally i would have gone for the non-adjuvented but the turn over would probably be 6 weeks for full immunity ( can only have 1st dose in 3 weeks) therefore i may already have caught it by then.
> I am glad to have made my decision - finally.

Thats good to know - any idea when they started vaccinating women in australia?


----------



## AimeeM

I read on another post they began their vaccination in winter in Oz which is our summer so i presume july/aug time although i wasn't sure if the vaccine was produced my then? But they say lots of Australian ladies who have had the jab have gone on to have healthy babies but i have yet to see an official document that backs this info up.


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## mrsaligee

Hi
I'm a newbie here, and have got my jab appointment on Thursday (Pandemrix). I got myself worked up into a right state last night and couldn't sleep. I did speak to my pregnant GP and she advised me to go for it, then said she was probably going to have it but wanted to see what the reaction was first? Does she mean reaction to the jab?

Anyway, I have a cousin in Oz who is a nurse. I have texted her to ask her about the above and whether she can corroborrate the above story about pregnant ladies who have gone on to give birth to healthy babies. It's a bit late over there so hoping she will respond tomorrow. I will post anything I find out.

By the way, my midwife team weren't very helpful this morning and just referred me back to my GP. They did say that anyone in their third trimester should have it but I am still only in my second (23+3). Should I wait, or should I take advantage of getting the vaccine now because they might run out?

It was great to hear from the ladies who have already had the jab (either Pandemrix or Celvapan). Can you give us an update on how you and bubs are feeling?

Mrsaligeee


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## JessiHD

AimeeM said:


> I read on another post they began their vaccination in winter in Oz which is our summer so i presume july/aug time although i wasn't sure if the vaccine was produced my then? But they say lots of Australian ladies who have had the jab have gone on to have healthy babies but i have yet to see an official document that backs this info up.

This still isn't a proper long term safety trial though, like every other vaccine has to go through. I'm still not convinced that Swine flu is any worse than seasonal flu, I think it could be pharmaceutical company hype!


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## Shauneen

Hi ladies,
I'm 16 weeks pregnant and had my Pandemrix jab over a week ago. I didnt even hesitate. I had been extremely worried every time i took a sore throat or the sniffles and for me the jab could not have come sooner. I was, naturally concerned but after weighing up reasons for and reasons against having it, it pros outweighed the cons by far. I felt extremely tired an hour after receiving the jab and slept it off for 45 minutes. As the day progressed my arm felt sore and I developed flu like symptoms. My husband ensured I put my feet up and let the vaccination take it's toll. I know my baby is still alive and well as I can still feel his/her swimming around in there. For me it was the best decision cos now I feel that if i come into contact with swine flu anytime this winter, my body will be ready to fight it off. Hope this helps those of you who really cant make up your minds.


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## littledancer

> This still isn't a proper long term safety trial though, like every other vaccine has to go through. I'm still not convinced that Swine flu is any worse than seasonal flu, I think it could be pharmaceutical company hype!

Swine flu is no worse than seasonal flu in terms of severity (for most) or the overall number of people who will die. The difference is that 90% of those that have died have had healthy immune systems with pregnant women being more succeptible to complications. With the seasonal flu, 90% of those who die are elderly and immunocompromised patients. So it's a difference of demographics not severity.

Also, in terms of a long-term safety trial- the seasonal flu jab is new every year as it contains the synthisized proteins of a DEAD flu virus. None can go through long-term safety trials for this reason- it changes every season.

The Swine Flu jab is no different in that it is also an attenuated vacine- MEANING, that it is created by synthisizing the protein of a DEAD flu virus. There is no other difference so it is the same as any seasonal flu vaccine.

Having said that, most pregnant women are given un-adjuvenated flu jabs, so the ajuvenated version has less scientific data behind it in terms of safety. The un-adjuventated H1N1 vaccine is identical to every yearly flu jab, except the DEAD virus protein differs.

I think everybody must decide for themselves, but I do feel there is some misinformation out there that can cloud people's decision making. Flu Vaccines never go through long-term safety trials, they are different every season.

Hope this helps!


----------



## littledancer

> This still isn't a proper long term safety trial though, like every other vaccine has to go through. I'm still not convinced that Swine flu is any worse than seasonal flu, I think it could be pharmaceutical company hype!

Swine flu is no worse than seasonal flu in terms of severity (for most) or the overall number of people who will die. The difference is that 90% of those that have died have had healthy immune systems with pregnant women being more succeptible to complications. With the seasonal flu, 90% of those who die are elderly and immunocompromised patients. So it's a difference of demographics not severity.

Also, in terms of a long-term safety trial- the seasonal flu jab is new every year as it contains the synthisized proteins of a DEAD flu virus. None can go through long-term safety trials for this reason- it changes every season with the type of virus that is circulating.

The Swine Flu jab is no different in that it is also an attenuated vacine- MEANING, that it is created by synthisizing the protein of a DEAD flu virus. There is no other difference so it is the same as any seasonal flu vaccine.

Having said that, most pregnant women are given un-adjuvenated flu jabs, so the ajuvenated version has less scientific data behind it in terms of safety. The un-adjuventated H1N1 vaccine is identical to every yearly flu jab, except the DEAD virus protein differs. Otherwise it is identical and has no history of complications for either pregnant women or their babies.

I think everybody must decide for themselves, but I do feel there is some misinformation out there that can cloud people's decision making. Flu Vaccines never go through long-term safety trials, they are different every season. There are different types of vaccinations, the N1H1 vaccine is an attenuated vaccine, like the seasonal flu vaccine. The science has gone through safety trials, but the individual virus proteins cannot because they change yearly. That is the nature of attenuated vaccination.

Hope this helps!


----------



## EmmaMarch2010

I'm actually beginning to get quite angered at the lack of factual information for pregnant women to help me make an educated decision on whether to get the jab or not

I would like to know:

How many pregnant women in the UK currently have swine flu?
Of those cases how many are severe and have led to deaths? Have those deaths been linked to other health issues or purely swine flu?
How many pregnant women are being treated for swine flu and recovering?

All we are hearing about is deaths which is scaring a lot of women into having the jab. Is there anywhere we can get statistics for the above? I doubt it. But it would help to put the issue into perspective.


----------



## 2bananas

EmmaMarch2010 said:


> I'm actually beginning to get quite angered at the lack of factual information for pregnant women to help me make an educated decision on whether to get the jab or not
> 
> I would like to know:
> 
> How many pregnant women in the UK currently have swine flu?
> Of those cases how many are severe and have led to deaths? Have those deaths been linked to other health issues or purely swine flu?
> How many pregnant women are being treated for swine flu and recovering?
> 
> All we are hearing about is deaths which is scaring a lot of women into having the jab. Is there anywhere we can get statistics for the above? I doubt it. But it would help to put the issue into perspective.

I can only answer the second question, 6 pregnant women have died - I know 2 definitely didnt have underlying conditions.

I have been googling loads of questions to work percentages for myself.

These could be guestimated too, but I dont think my brain power would be able to calculate it - i'll see if i can find any info x


----------



## mumofboys

a very dear friend of mine who I have known for 20 years since high school is an obstetrician in the US . I asked him his thoughts on the vaccine as I don't believe he would lie to me and he said:

"As for H1N1 vaccine I would strongly recommend that you get it. The H1N1 designation to the vaccine is the definition of proteins that are expressed on the outer envelope of the virus. These proteins are what allow the virus to cause an infection. If you have antibodies that have been induced by the vaccine to these specific proteins the virus is less likely to cause an infection. 

The process of creating Influenza vaccines is time tested . . . a bit like building things with Lego blocks. Every year vaccine manufacturers 'guess' at what virus may come thru. They manufacture a vaccine with specific likely proteins. H1 and N1 are just two of such proteins.

There are two types of vaccine. The protein only injection and live-inactivated nasal spray. Both are likely safe, but I recommend the protein only injection.

Pregnant ladies are really at high risk of problems from this virus. I personally have had to put several patients in the Intensive Care Unit. Most of those patients have been overweight and with other health issues, but the risk in pregnancy is clearly higher than in a similar age matched population.

To put it simply . . . if my wife were pregnant, or I (what a silly thought) was pregnant I would get the vaccine. The vaccine associated risk, which is miniscule, is far outweighed by the risk of complications associated with the H1N1 virus.

That being said . . . I am sure that if you choose to not get the vaccine you will likely be fine. Vaccine is better, but either way you should not worry yourself."

Made me feel a lot better so thought I would pass it on.


----------



## jackie.d

EmmaMarch2010 said:


> I'm actually beginning to get quite angered at the lack of factual information for pregnant women to help me make an educated decision on whether to get the jab or not
> 
> I would like to know:
> 
> How many pregnant women in the UK currently have swine flu?
> Of those cases how many are severe and have led to deaths? Have those deaths been linked to other health issues or purely swine flu?
> How many pregnant women are being treated for swine flu and recovering?
> 
> All we are hearing about is deaths which is scaring a lot of women into having the jab. Is there anywhere we can get statistics for the above? I doubt it. But it would help to put the issue into perspective.

i totally agree with you, i would like to see this information as well as im sure all others would. xx


----------



## EmmaMarch2010

Thanks girls, it is very frustrating. Just want to do whats best but its hard to work out just what that is!x


----------



## JessiHD

mumofboys said:


> a very dear friend of mine who I have known for 20 years since high school is an obstetrician in the US . I asked him his thoughts on the vaccine as I don't believe he would lie to me and he said:
> 
> "As for H1N1 vaccine I would strongly recommend that you get it. The H1N1 designation to the vaccine is the definition of proteins that are expressed on the outer envelope of the virus. These proteins are what allow the virus to cause an infection. If you have antibodies that have been induced by the vaccine to these specific proteins the virus is less likely to cause an infection.
> 
> The process of creating Influenza vaccines is time tested . . . a bit like building things with Lego blocks. Every year vaccine manufacturers 'guess' at what virus may come thru. They manufacture a vaccine with specific likely proteins. H1 and N1 are just two of such proteins.
> 
> There are two types of vaccine. The protein only injection and live-inactivated nasal spray. Both are likely safe, but I recommend the protein only injection.
> 
> Pregnant ladies are really at high risk of problems from this virus. I personally have had to put several patients in the Intensive Care Unit. Most of those patients have been overweight and with other health issues, but the risk in pregnancy is clearly higher than in a similar age matched population.
> 
> To put it simply . . . if my wife were pregnant, or I (what a silly thought) was pregnant I would get the vaccine. The vaccine associated risk, which is miniscule, is far outweighed by the risk of complications associated with the H1N1 virus.
> 
> That being said . . . I am sure that if you choose to not get the vaccine you will likely be fine. Vaccine is better, but either way you should not worry yourself."
> 
> Made me feel a lot better so thought I would pass it on.

I think you are being offered different vaccines in the US.


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## callmepoppy

The protein only version is the non adjuvanted one over here. Means the same :)


----------



## JessiHD

callmepoppy said:


> The protein only version is the non adjuvanted one over here. Means the same :)

But we're not being offered the non-adjuvanted one necessarily, are we? If we were I would be quite happy to take it but not Pandemrix.


----------



## nectarina

That's the Celvapan... it's only being offered to people allergic to eggs... Maybe your GP has got extra, mine doesn't.... I am having the regular one tomorrow morning. Will let you know how it goes!


----------



## gem_

2bananas said:


> gem_ said:
> 
> 
> 2bananas - You say "if i start feeling unwell I will be down the doctors faster than my feet can carry me to be swabbed". I assume that is just a figure of speech as anyone with swine flu symptoms have to stay at home and not present at their doctor's surgery which would risk passing the virus on to whoever's in the surgery, some of which may be very vulnerable patients. I am a pharmacist and have been appalled by how many patients have come into my pharmacy with flu like symptoms even though we, like the doctors surgery, have clear signs on the door saying DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS. The advice is to stay at home, ring your GP or Swine flu helpline number and if a script for antivirals is deemed necessary ask a symptomless flu buddy to collect the script on your behalf. I apologise if what you said was just a figure of speech, but I'm sure everyone realises the importance of this procedure to stop the spread of the virus and it does seem from my experience many people aren't aware of this.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't put too much faith in the antivirals if I was you - they only reduce the length of the illness by one day and can have nasty side-effects. Just thought you all should know the facts so you can come to an informed decision x
> 
> yes, as I also work in a pharmacy I do know this and the procedure and it was a figure of speech. The anti virals do work by also reducing your chances of developing complications and would be concerned at a pharmacist warning people against them, I am unsure which facts you have offered us to make an informed decision from your post as I cant see any and given how difficult this decision - all i did was write my feelings down, mostly for my benefit and you have made me feel quite upset actually. Your whole tone is just judgemental and telling me off - I didnt ask for that did I?Click to expand...

2bananas I'm so sorry I upset you, that wasn't my intention. I got the information about the antivirals from a friend of mine who works in hospital and knows more than me in the community setting about them. She had to take Tamiflu herself and it made her really ill. I think antivirals have their place, and would recommend anyone pregnant start on Relenza immediately to reduce the length of the illness and complications. However I personally don't think that it's a good idea to rely on them solely. A friend of mine who is a doctor in the local hospital says that there are more and more people on intensive care seriously ill with swine flu. Some took the antivirals, some didn't. Please accept my heartfelt apology for any upset caused x


----------



## callmepoppy

You can call and request the celvapan. If you have a stubborn local health authority and cannot get it easily all you have to do is say you have an egg allergy. They have to take you at face value as they cannot prove either way that you do not.

Basically if you really want the celvapan there are ways and means. Depends how strongly you feel. Upto you :flower:


----------



## Missy86

I would just like to say both types of the vac in britian do not contain live virus

That is very important


----------



## 2bananas

gem_ said:


> 2bananas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gem_ said:
> 
> 
> 2bananas - You say "if i start feeling unwell I will be down the doctors faster than my feet can carry me to be swabbed". I assume that is just a figure of speech as anyone with swine flu symptoms have to stay at home and not present at their doctor's surgery which would risk passing the virus on to whoever's in the surgery, some of which may be very vulnerable patients. I am a pharmacist and have been appalled by how many patients have come into my pharmacy with flu like symptoms even though we, like the doctors surgery, have clear signs on the door saying DO NOT ENTER IF YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS. The advice is to stay at home, ring your GP or Swine flu helpline number and if a script for antivirals is deemed necessary ask a symptomless flu buddy to collect the script on your behalf. I apologise if what you said was just a figure of speech, but I'm sure everyone realises the importance of this procedure to stop the spread of the virus and it does seem from my experience many people aren't aware of this.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't put too much faith in the antivirals if I was you - they only reduce the length of the illness by one day and can have nasty side-effects. Just thought you all should know the facts so you can come to an informed decision x
> 
> yes, as I also work in a pharmacy I do know this and the procedure and it was a figure of speech. The anti virals do work by also reducing your chances of developing complications and would be concerned at a pharmacist warning people against them, I am unsure which facts you have offered us to make an informed decision from your post as I cant see any and given how difficult this decision - all i did was write my feelings down, mostly for my benefit and you have made me feel quite upset actually. Your whole tone is just judgemental and telling me off - I didnt ask for that did I?Click to expand...
> 
> 2bananas I'm so sorry I upset you, that wasn't my intention. I got the information about the antivirals from a friend of mine who works in hospital and knows more than me in the community setting about them. She had to take Tamiflu herself and it made her really ill. I think antivirals have their place, and would recommend anyone pregnant start on Relenza immediately to reduce the length of the illness and complications. However I personally don't think that it's a good idea to rely on them solely. A friend of mine who is a doctor in the local hospital says that there are more and more people on intensive care seriously ill with swine flu. Some took the antivirals, some didn't. Please accept my heartfelt apology for any upset caused xClick to expand...

Thank you for your apology, it is much appreciated and Im sorry if I was a bit hasty in my reply. Im just very stressed and hormones obviously arent helping so im taking lots of things personally. x


----------



## mummypeanut

I have my vaccination (pandemrix) at 2.30 today - i will let you know how i get on.

xx


----------



## mummyjax

Its now 13 days said I had my Pandemrix jab. I still have a small lump in my arm but apart from that everything fine, baby still kicking. My eldest daughter developed flu symptoms at the weekend, she has had a temp of 38.5oC, muscle aches, cough and sneezes. Thankfully today her temp is normal and she is more herself although still coughing and sneezing. My husband also has had flu like symptoms over the past two days. I have no idea if its seasonal/swine or something else and guess I will never know but I am grateful that I have some protection now against flu. So far my youngest daughter and I have been fine. I will not rest though until we have all had our vaccine. Every horrible thought went through my head when my daughter fell ill!


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## nectarina

Had mine this morning at 9 and feel ok so far... My arm is a bit sore, but not too much (maybe it will get worse by the evening) and I feel fine myself... Baby has been kicking normally all morning so fingers crossed, everything will be ok. 
I had coffe with a pregnant friend this morning who has decided not too have it. When I told her that I had just had it, she looked at me with what I thought was a disapproving face. She said "it hasn't been tested on pregnant women so now way I am going to let that inside me..." I told her that no vaccine is ever tested on pregnant women, and that many take the normal seasonal one with no side effects... Still I felt a bit unconfortable and feeling like I had to justify myself for being such a terrible mother and having been led by the NHS... She has paid £3K to be seen by an independent midwife who has adviced her not to have the vaccine. I felt as if I was a fool trusting my NHS midwife who has adviced me to have it... It seems like you only get good advice when you pay up front, eh?
Anyway, I am glad I've had it, for better or for worse... I am happy to think I have done the best for me, my baby and also my toddler daughter and husband... 
Good luck to all of you still trying to decide... it's a really tough one! :kiss:


----------



## JessiHD

nectarina said:


> Had mine this morning at 9 and feel ok so far... My arm is a bit sore, but not too much (maybe it will get worse by the evening) and I feel fine myself... Baby has been kicking normally all morning so fingers crossed, everything will be ok.
> I had coffe with a pregnant friend this morning who has decided not too have it. When I told her that I had just had it, she looked at me with what I thought was a disapproving face. She said "it hasn't been tested on pregnant women so now way I am going to let that inside me..." I told her that no vaccine is ever tested on pregnant women, and that many take the normal seasonal one with no side effects... Still I felt a bit unconfortable and feeling like I had to justify myself for being such a terrible mother and having been led by the NHS... She has paid £3K to be seen by an independent midwife who has adviced her not to have the vaccine. I felt as if I was a fool trusting my NHS midwife who has adviced me to have it... It seems like you only get good advice when you pay up front, eh?
> Anyway, I am glad I've had it, for better or for worse... I am happy to think I have done the best for me, my baby and also my toddler daughter and husband...
> Good luck to all of you still trying to decide... it's a really tough one! :kiss:

That's awful, I don't think we should be disapproving of each other's choice in all this. Despite working for the NHS I have decided not to take it, after a lot of soulsearching, however my non-pregnant MIL has lupus and will be taking it when offered and I fully support her decision. There are lots of personal factors to take into account and there is no right or wrong answer!


----------



## mummypeanut

nectarina said:


> Had mine this morning at 9 and feel ok so far... My arm is a bit sore, but not too much (maybe it will get worse by the evening) and I feel fine myself... Baby has been kicking normally all morning so fingers crossed, everything will be ok.
> I had coffe with a pregnant friend this morning who has decided not too have it. When I told her that I had just had it, she looked at me with what I thought was a disapproving face. She said "it hasn't been tested on pregnant women so now way I am going to let that inside me..." I told her that no vaccine is ever tested on pregnant women, and that many take the normal seasonal one with no side effects... Still I felt a bit unconfortable and feeling like I had to justify myself for being such a terrible mother and having been led by the NHS... She has paid £3K to be seen by an independent midwife who has adviced her not to have the vaccine. I felt as if I was a fool trusting my NHS midwife who has adviced me to have it... It seems like you only get good advice when you pay up front, eh?
> Anyway, I am glad I've had it, for better or for worse... I am happy to think I have done the best for me, my baby and also my toddler daughter and husband...
> Good luck to all of you still trying to decide... it's a really tough one! :kiss:

I have an independant midwife and she was very careful NOT to tell us what to do - as the person above said there is no right or wrong answer and you have to make a decsion for youself. 

Dont worry its not like she knows for definate she has made the right decsiion just like you dont know. She will feel silly if she gets swine flu and has complications and all of us who have had the vaccine (me included) will feel silly if the vaccine causes problems. Its a stick with poo at both ends! 

There are no easy answers or answers without risks, all we can do is make the best decsion for our babies and not be influence by what other people feel is right for their baby - everyone if different


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

Hey Ladies
I'm 25 weeks pregnant with a 17 mth old, and having the same issues in deciding what to do...man its difficult to be pregnant these days...its totally wasting my pregnancy this time round having to stress about whats best...anyone else wish it was men who had the babies :)


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

Just realised that that reads like I'm pregnant with a toddler :) I also have a 17 mth old....baby brain !!! :)


----------



## franiss

my midwife was also very careful not to say much, but then came out with 'i wouldnt buy a new car that nobody else had yet, put it that way!' all midwives have their own opinion like you or i whether you pay or not.
xx


----------



## franiss

EmmaDueInFeb said:


> Hey Ladies
> I'm 25 weeks pregnant with a 17 mth old, and having the same issues in deciding what to do...man its difficult to be pregnant these days...its totally wasting my pregnancy this time round having to stress about whats best...anyone else wish it was men who had the babies :)

i second that! i feel im not enjoying this pregnancy due to the sheer worry of if im going to get the swine flu!! and oh yes i wish it was men, we would all have 1 child each though wouldnt we lol! they wouldnt go through it twice i bet
xx


----------



## nectarina

I am checking this thread more than my Facebook account these days! :haha:
I really hope everyone is ok at the end of all our pregnancies (and flu season) whatever our decision... Hopefully we will look back at this thread in a few months time and smile thinking all the worries are over...


----------



## Luuluu

Does anyone know of anyone whose had the jab and has given birth? 
I wish it was 6 months down the line then we'd all be breathing a sigh of relief that it's the summer again!!! xx


----------



## 2bananas

nectarina said:


> I am checking this thread more than my Facebook account these days! :haha:
> I really hope everyone is ok at the end of all our pregnancies (and flu season) whatever our decision... Hopefully we will look back at this thread in a few months time and smile thinking all the worries are over...

I hope so too - I really hate that im wishing my pregnancy away just to get out of the danger of third tri like we are being made to believe. This should be the time for excitement and all im doing is panicking about getting ill/having the vaccine.

If im honest, I have been that worked up by it all I dont think I will have any more children for the fear of having to deal with stress like this again.

I've been really poorly all day today too and so called nhs direct to be on the safe side. I've had vomiting, headache and dizzyness, but no temp, so they said until I get a temp its likely just a bug and to watch out for a sore throat/cough. On the third day of the headache now - not fun.

Anyway - im enjoyin hearing from people on having/not having the vaccine so keep the posts coming, i've got 6 days left until my appointment when i have to decide.

x


----------



## nikkibr

hey all, had my letter through from my surgery for an app on saturday for the vaccine. i dont think it stated which one it was though. but i am defiantly going to get it, but am scared about getting it too! not knowing if its the right decision. anyone that has had it..does the numb arm pain stop you from driving? xx


----------



## blackrose

Had part one of celvpan jab today . feel ok my arm is sore though . I'm trying not too worry too much . The doctor was very helpful but made me feel it was the safest thing to do .


----------



## blackrose

celvapan is being offered to pregnant women here , why is it not there im confused ?


----------



## mummyjax

nikkibr said:


> hey all, had my letter through from my surgery for an app on saturday for the vaccine. i dont think it stated which one it was though. but i am defiantly going to get it, but am scared about getting it too! not knowing if its the right decision. anyone that has had it..does the numb arm pain stop you from driving? xx

Hi

No it won't stop you driving. The only difficulty I had was getting comfy at bedtime, I couldn't lie on that side for a few nights and if one of my kids accidently banged my arm where the injection was it was sore but it won't stop you doing anything. It wasn't sore getting the injection either. Good luck x


----------



## Noah'sMummy

Hi,
I'm having my vaccine tomorrow evening at 7.35, not sure which one it is yet though. I've changed my mind so many times but feel I am doing the right thing. I also have a 4 year old to consider and he needs me. Will let you all know how I get on.


----------



## Noah'sMummy

Hi,
I'm having my vaccine tomorrow evening at 7.35, not sure which one it is yet though. I've changed my mind so many times but feel I am doing the right thing. I also have a 4 year old to consider and he needs me. Will let you all know how I get on.


----------



## nectarina

nikkibr said:


> hey all, had my letter through from my surgery for an app on saturday for the vaccine. i dont think it stated which one it was though. but i am defiantly going to get it, but am scared about getting it too! not knowing if its the right decision. anyone that has had it..does the numb arm pain stop you from driving? xx

No, it doesn't stop you from doing anything, but it is quite sore. Like muscular pain... I don't actually have any mark, or bruise or anything, though... maybe that will come later... Baby has been really active today, I think she is probably sensing the stress I am under :sad1:


----------



## mummypeanut

blackrose said:


> celvapan is being offered to pregnant women here , why is it not there im confused ?

They want people protected more quickly (celvepan can take a month to complete the 2 shots) and i think they only ordered enough for people with egg allergies

:shrug:


----------



## Bingles

blackrose said:


> Had part one of celvpan jab today . feel ok my arm is sore though . I'm trying not too worry too much . The doctor was very helpful but made me feel it was the safest thing to do .

Have you deffo been told you will be called back? I was told to wait for a phone call as they didnt know if there would be a part 2 yet. Im in southern Ireland too.


----------



## LogansMama

Okay - I did not read all 11 pages of posts, but thought I would post my experience...

I got the shot on Monday. My doctor is currently pregnant as well, and she already had her shot, and recommended I get one too. 

I am not sure which shot I actually got, but I do know the one I got was mercury free, and since I am in the US, we don't have adjuvants in ours either... 

I decided to get it because I am high risk being pregnant, also I have asthma which gets much worse with my pregnancies. AND I teach in an elementary school.. so I am exposed to all kinds of germs. I just figured I was better off with the shot than risking my life.

I also learned that by getting the shot, the baby is protected after birth as well... since they will be unable to get a shot of their own.


----------



## LisaO80

mrsaligee said:


> Hi
> I'm a newbie here, and have got my jab appointment on Thursday (Pandemrix). I got myself worked up into a right state last night and couldn't sleep. I did speak to my pregnant GP and she advised me to go for it, then said she was probably going to have it but wanted to see what the reaction was first? Does she mean reaction to the jab?
> 
> Anyway, I have a cousin in Oz who is a nurse. I have texted her to ask her about the above and whether she can corroborrate the above story about pregnant ladies who have gone on to give birth to healthy babies. It's a bit late over there so hoping she will respond tomorrow. I will post anything I find out.
> 
> By the way, my midwife team weren't very helpful this morning and just referred me back to my GP. They did say that anyone in their third trimester should have it but I am still only in my second (23+3). Should I wait, or should I take advantage of getting the vaccine now because they might run out?
> 
> It was great to hear from the ladies who have already had the jab (either Pandemrix or Celvapan). Can you give us an update on how you and bubs are feeling?
> 
> Mrsaligeee


Hi Mrsaligee did your cousin in Oz come back to you? My midwifes not being very helpful either she just told me that she has to remain completely impartial and cannot advise either way!
That said from what i've read i'm leaning towards having it, but i'm just antsy about it!

Thanks
Lisa


----------



## surprisemummy

a student nurse in my mothers work was hospitalised with swine flu and they had to deliver her baby at 33 weeks as it wasnt coping. Baby was born perfectly healthy and weight 5 pounds so all is well, after hearing this i decided to go get the vaccine lol. got it today feeling fine just got a heavy feeling in my arm xx


----------



## blackrose

Bingles said:


> blackrose said:
> 
> 
> Had part one of celvpan jab today . feel ok my arm is sore though . I'm trying not too worry too much . The doctor was very helpful but made me feel it was the safest thing to do .
> 
> Have you deffo been told you will be called back? I was told to wait for a phone call as they didnt know if there would be a part 2 yet. Im in southern Ireland too.Click to expand...

No it seems now they don't know . I phoned the hospital where I had it , they told me to have part two in my gp's office , Gp knew nothing about it even when i showed him vaccination card . Local health centre said they are waiting for confirmation to see if there will be another one . Do you think we're safe ? I'm insanely anxious :blush:


----------



## blackrose

mummypeanut said:


> blackrose said:
> 
> 
> celvapan is being offered to pregnant women here , why is it not there im confused ?
> 
> They want people protected more quickly (celvepan can take a month to complete the 2 shots) and i think they only ordered enough for people with egg allergies
> 
> :shrug:Click to expand...

I guess that makes sense , as I may not even have the second one , also there has too be a three week gap between when you have the first and second shot so it will take longer to be protected


----------



## nectarina

Day and a half since I had mine and feeling totally fine. My arm doesn't feel that sore any more and I haven't developed any flu-like symptoms... Baby has been kicking as usual, so it seems everything is fine...
Now I just have to wait patiently until she is born and hope she is well and healthy...
I feel quite relieved that all the uncertainty is over... although a bit annoyed after hearing on the radio today that the swine flu cases have actually dropped this week... I hope all the sacrifice and agony hasn't been in vain!


----------



## Scooby12345

Hi all, I'm a newby! Been reading this thread for week and think its really good to hear what people have to say. I thought i'd pretty much convinced myself to have the vaccination but hadn't received a letter. As my husband was passing the doctors today he called in to ask when they were sending letters out and they're not! Which i though was bit strange.

Anyway, they are having an open evening on mon to answer questions about the vaccination so i'm going and will update if theres anything new to tell. 

Thanks again to all who are updating there experinces on here its really helpful.


----------



## nectarina

Scooby12345 said:


> Hi all, I'm a newby! Been reading this thread for week and think its really good to hear what people have to say. I thought i'd pretty much convinced myself to have the vaccination but hadn't received a letter. As my husband was passing the doctors today he called in to ask when they were sending letters out and they're not! Which i though was bit strange.
> 
> Anyway, they are having an open evening on mon to answer questions about the vaccination so i'm going and will update if theres anything new to tell.
> 
> Thanks again to all who are updating there experinces on here its really helpful.

I didn't wait for my GP to send me a letter either. I just phoned and asked if they had started vaccinating pregnant women and they said they had, so I made the appointment straight away... Just call them and ask... Maybe they haven't got enough vaccines for all the pregnant women in the surgery and it's first come first served... who knows...


----------



## mumofboys

Booked my jab today for 28th November - was the first appointment I could get as my surgery has just got the vaccine this week and needs to do the other high risk people first.

My consultant (after doing lots of reasearch on the vaccine) is now fully supportive of me having the jab and I feel much better about it. She also told me that doctors have now discovered that pregnant women are more at risk because an enzyme that exists in the lungs and helps to ensure that regular folk don't develop pneumonia depletes in the lungs of pregnant women....the depletion happens over the course of the pregnancy and helps to explain why pregnant women become progressively more vulnerable. This is useful to know and reassures me that the risk is quite real, and not just a case of media scare mongering.

Good luck to everyone making their decisions and here's hoping that we all have end up with healthy bubs whatever we decide.


----------



## readyfor3rd

gem_ said:


> On another forum site I came across this useful link which is a copy of a letter sent out from the Department of Health to all GPs specifically about pregnant women and the swine flu vaccine. I've never posted a link before, so apologies if it doesn't work. The website is https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_107825.pdf
> You may have to copy and paste it into your browser sorry!

Sorry if anyone has already posted about this, i'm still reading through this thread and am only on page 12! Also sorry if people are now not debating but all decided on whether to have the jab but having read this link from Gem I then googled the polysorbate 80 that they talk about which is part of the adjuvant used in Pandemrix. https://infertility.suite101.com/article.cfm/polysorbate_80_causes_infertility Knowing i've got twin girls kinda scared me to think is the long term effect of this going to be nationwide infertility ?


----------



## AimeeM

Very interesting! Links up to something else i was reading funnily enough. This makes me reconsider. Again.


----------



## JessiHD

blackrose said:


> mummypeanut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackrose said:
> 
> 
> celvapan is being offered to pregnant women here , why is it not there im confused ?
> 
> They want people protected more quickly (celvepan can take a month to complete the 2 shots) and i think they only ordered enough for people with egg allergies
> 
> :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> I guess that makes sense , as I may not even have the second one , also there has too be a three week gap between when you have the first and second shot so it will take longer to be protectedClick to expand...


Sorry to be cynical but I work for the NHS and I suspect it is related more to cost of the vaccine than anything.


----------



## CocoaOne

JessiHD said:


> Sorry to be cynical but I work for the NHS and I suspect it is related more to cost of the vaccine than anything.

Me too!

Pretty sure the main factors in the overall decision are that the GPs wanted £7 per shot, so the government would have had to pay them £14 for each person vaccinated.... and double the dose means double the cost to buy the vaccine. 

I don't think you can work in the NHS and NOT be cynical! :winkwink:


----------



## AnnaMac

Had the jab on Wednesday evening. Feeling absolutely fine, just got a bit of a sore arm. Feeling relieved it's done and glad I won't have to worry like mad when this flu will start spreading even more over the next months.


----------



## gem_

I have re-read some of my recent posts and am sorry if anyone found my posts about antivirals confusing. I just want to make it clear that I never said I would recommend against their use, just that I personally wouldnt put too much faith in them and rely on them solely. I feel this way because there are people seriously ill in hospital with swine flu despite taking the antivirals, which I find frightening. That being said for those of you that decide that the vaccine is not for you and unfortunately go on to suffer from swine flu, not only would I recommend you take antivirals I would say it is essential. This is because once youve got swine flu starting antiviral treatment as soon as possible is your best bet of beating swine flu successfully, regardless of the side effects. I just wanted people to know before deciding against the vaccine that antivirals are proven to shorten the illness by one day, so dont expect to feel better immediately after taking them.

I mentioned that a friend of mine took Tamiflu and suffered nasty side effects (they upset her stomach). I just want to make it clear that even though she suffered side effects she is still glad she took them as she is asthmatic and like us pregnant women is at greater risk of complications from swine flu. She just thinks prevention is better than cure and wishes that the vaccine had been available to her sooner so that she wouldnt have needed to take the Tamiflu in the first place. Also Tamiflu is not the antiviral usually prescribed to pregnant women (although it can be used if deemed necessary e.g. in asthmatics). Most pregnant women will be prescribed the inhaled antiviral Relenza. Because it is inhaled this antiviral is thought to minimise any potential effect on the developing baby and have less side-effects than Tamiflu.

I have read every single post on this thread and want to thank everyone who has written one. Not only is it nice to have some useful information on this topic, its nice to know that Im not the only pregnant woman out there whos had sleepless nights about this decision. I particularly want to thank Cl8703 for the information youve provided. It really helped make my mind up  I am having the Pandemrix vaccine on Tuesday. I know some people have been able to obtain Celvepan by ringing their PCT (England) or LHB (Wales) directly. If any of you want to go down this route you can find their telephone number out on the internet or you can ask your GP surgery for it. Ive decided not to do this as I want to be protected against swine flu as soon as possible and if my LHB refuses my request I think Ill end up getting even more upset. 

I also want to say a massive thank you to Luuluu for starting and keeping up this thread. I will write a post around a week after having the jab to let you know if I have any side-effects. I am expecting a very sore arm for a few days! I will be just over 14 weeks when I have it. I will also write a post after my 19-20 week anomaly scan to let you know if that was all ok.

Good luck to everyone else with your decisions. Once again I want to apologise for any upset caused by my badly worded posts. Although this was unintentional on my part this is an upsetting and personal decision for us all, and I hate to think Ive caused anyone further unnecessary upset.


----------



## 2bananas

gem_ said:


> I have re-read some of my recent posts and am sorry if anyone found my posts about antivirals confusing. I just want to make it clear that I never said I would recommend against their use, just that I personally wouldnt put too much faith in them and rely on them solely. I feel this way because there are people seriously ill in hospital with swine flu despite taking the antivirals, which I find frightening. That being said for those of you that decide that the vaccine is not for you and unfortunately go on to suffer from swine flu, not only would I recommend you take antivirals I would say it is essential. This is because once youve got swine flu starting antiviral treatment as soon as possible is your best bet of beating swine flu successfully, regardless of the side effects. I just wanted people to know before deciding against the vaccine that antivirals are proven to shorten the illness by one day, so dont expect to feel better immediately after taking them.
> 
> I mentioned that a friend of mine took Tamiflu and suffered nasty side effects (they upset her stomach). I just want to make it clear that even though she suffered side effects she is still glad she took them as she is asthmatic and like us pregnant women is at greater risk of complications from swine flu. She just thinks prevention is better than cure and wishes that the vaccine had been available to her sooner so that she wouldnt have needed to take the Tamiflu in the first place. Also Tamiflu is not the antiviral usually prescribed to pregnant women (although it can be used if deemed necessary e.g. in asthmatics). Most pregnant women will be prescribed the inhaled antiviral Relenza. Because it is inhaled this antiviral is thought to minimise any potential effect on the developing baby and have less side-effects than Tamiflu.
> 
> I have read every single post on this thread and want to thank everyone who has written one. Not only is it nice to have some useful information on this topic, its nice to know that Im not the only pregnant woman out there whos had sleepless nights about this decision. I particularly want to thank Cl8703 for the information youve provided. It really helped make my mind up  I am having the Pandemrix vaccine on Tuesday. I know some people have been able to obtain Celvepan by ringing their PCT (England) or LHB (Wales) directly. If any of you want to go down this route you can find their telephone number out on the internet or you can ask your GP surgery for it. Ive decided not to do this as I want to be protected against swine flu as soon as possible and if my LHB refuses my request I think Ill end up getting even more upset.
> 
> I also want to say a massive thank you to Luuluu for starting and keeping up this thread. I will write a post around a week after having the jab to let you know if I have any side-effects. I am expecting a very sore arm for a few days! I will be just over 14 weeks when I have it. I will also write a post after my 19-20 week anomaly scan to let you know if that was all ok.
> 
> Good luck to everyone else with your decisions. Once again I want to apologise for any upset caused by my badly worded posts. Although this was unintentional on my part this is an upsetting and personal decision for us all, and I hate to think Ive caused anyone further unnecessary upset.

I think this can be the problem with all forums and that sometimes because you are talking through cyber space things sound differently to how they were intended. This is also going to be a thread fuelled with high emotion because of the pressure mums to be are feeling right now. Certainly no hard feeings from me - good luck with your jab hun and the rest of your pregnancy, hope it all goes well and look forward to hearing your update after the jab xx


----------



## nikkibr

just had my vaccination. i was the only pregnant woman there! all the other people were old people! but oh well. its done now im glad i've had it done, but now i'm just worried about the side effects or if im going to be feeling ok - keep thinking that i'm feeling ill or funny but i gues that's just my head playing tricks on me. my arm feels ok i would say just feels very slightly heavy - but then i literally only had it less then half an hour ago!! i will keep you all posted if i get any other side effects etc. also i felt the baby kick for the first time properly today!!  xx


----------



## JessiHD

Just had my letter, it's Pandemrix so I'm going to see if they will give me Celvapan. I don't want to take adjuvants when they are not known to be safe and even then I don't want to be vaccinated until I'm in my 3rd trimester.


----------



## blaze777

To all you ladies who have added information and advice, can I just say thankyou!! 

I got my letter from the GP this morning, but wasn't sure whether to get the vaccine or not, but reading through this thread has made my mind up and I have decided I am going to get it. The pro's far outweigh the con's in my opinion.

Will keep you all posted on how I get on :)

Once again thanks for all the advice and guidance ladies, you've all been really helpful 
xx


----------



## porterloo

This forum is the best, lots of views on the vaccine. Im still in two minds whether to have it. my husband asked our doctor his opinion as a father and husband than a doc and would he give it to his pregnant wife, hes said yes without a doubt. But im going to ring my midwife mon and ask her opinion. Im booked in for next sat for the pandemris jab, im also going to also ask doctors for celvapan, im just not comfortable having the pandemrix after reading about the adjuvants in it. This has given me and my husband sleepless nights as getting the swine flu can be lethal to me and baby, but because in a nanny to two boys and swine flu has been in there school, theres is a possibility they may get it and pass it on. Grrrr what to do!!!!!!


----------



## Luuluu

Thanks Gem!

I started this post in an absolute panic and nobody read it for what seemed like ages! Now, there's thousands!!

It's soooo good to hear people's stories. I am still of the mind NOT to have it but shall wait and see. I still haven't even been offered it yet anyway so until I HAVE to make my mind up, I shall just 'relax'.

Keep 'em coming girls......
xxxxxxxxx


----------



## callmepoppy

Im having my vaccine on 30th November. Its the pandemrix I am getting. Spoke to my family doctor who has really reassured me of the vaccines safety. I would trust this man with my life. he says both are safe but as the pandemrix is effective a lot quicker than the celvapan it makes good sense to get this if its available. He says in the few weeks it takes for celvapan to become effective you could still catch the disease - then all this decision making was for nothing - but stressed it was my decision and I would not be forced either way.

He says the people most at risk are those in their thirties and pregnant ladies. They are unsure why this is hence why it is so important to immunise the vulnerable. 

I urge anyone who is in the 'dont know' camp to speak with their doctor and see how they feel afterwards. Ask which vaccine is available to you and any other questions to satisfy your mind. You will feel better afterwards no matter what you opt to do.

My doctor said that the pregnant women he has immunised so far have only experienced a pain in their arm common with almost every vaccine anyway.

I am so relieved that I have my apointment booked and do feel that this is the best thing for me and bubs. Its a relief! Good luck with the decision ladies! :flower:


----------



## blokeandbird

Well after alot of thought and reading I had the pandemrix vaccine today. Feel fine but have got a very achy arm!!


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

I was very in the 'no camp' a few weeks ago, but someone asked me if I got really ill with swine flu and ended up in hospital, would I want them to give me every drug they could to save me, and obviously I would, and these drugs will not have been tested on pregnant women either, so one way or another you could be injected with something.....so I think once I'm into the 3rd trimester I will get it. Still not 100% convinced but I have 14 weeks left, and don't want to have to hid away :) Plus all you ladies who have had it already are putting my mind at rest, thank you !


----------



## callmepoppy

Thought Id let you ladies know as well that my friend who had the pandemrix jab a few weeks ago now just gave birth to a healthy little girl yesterday.

She is just perfect and has totally convinced me of the vaccine now. x


----------



## callmepoppy

Also thought this would be useful...

https://www.nhs.uk/news/Documents/Swine-flu-and-pregnancy.pdf


----------



## chocbanana

callmepoppy
Thanks for both your posts - I found them useful and reassuring!:thumbup:
xx


----------



## Lottie'sMum

Hi all,

Well, after many sleepless nights and loads of research...I had PANDEMRIX today. I totally freaked afterwards, but now it's done, I feel ok. Sore arm, but that's all. I have an 8 year old, who needs a well Mum and a muscle disease, so have other factors to consider. I just pray that my baby Girl will be ok, and feel happy that she will be immune when born.


----------



## JessiHD

The problem is that no healthcare professional can actually say for certain that the jab will have no serious effects in the short term or long term for the baby as there is simply not the evidence to prove it. The best doctors will give yoiu the information available and allow you to make your own decision based on the pros and cons. I wouldn't trust any doctor or midwife that tells you that you definitely should or shouldn't have the vaccine because so far no really know what is for the best.


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

Booked my app for the jab for 30th Nov, still apprehensive, but I have an 18mth old girl who needs me too !


----------



## Scooby12345

So i thought i was going to an open evening about the vaccination at my doctors tonight (so my husband said) but after thinking about it i rung to check and i'm actually getting the vaccine tonight (men hey getting the wrong end of the stick!). 

I know i'm doing the right thing for husband, baby and I, i'm nearly in the third trimester and my breathing is getting worse doing normal things (I was pretty fit before i got pregnant!). if i was to catch swine flu it would really knock me for 6 and that would be no good for baby. with christmas round the corner i can well imagine all the germs that will be getting spread and i work in a large office. It is such a personal decision but i'm glad mine is now made, fingers crossed.

I have a routine midwife appointment in the morning, so at least i'll be getting checked over then and have some reassurance hearing babies heartbeat. I'll update tomorrow night how i'm feeling.


----------



## chocaholic

I have been teaching for a few years now so think that I have built up a fairly good immune system (I haven't had more than a day or 2 off ill for years). Since being pregnant I've only been working 2 days a week and am starting mat leave on Dec 18th so only 10 days left in school (wow that's scary). All these things considered I hope I'm unlikely to contract swine flu and if I do, I hope I'll have a good chance of fighting it off, therefore I'm not having the jab. But definitely each to her own xx


----------



## callmepoppy

JessiHD said:


> The problem is that no healthcare professional can actually say for certain that the jab will have no serious effects in the short term or long term for the baby as there is simply not the evidence to prove it. The best doctors will give yoiu the information available and allow you to make your own decision based on the pros and cons. I wouldn't trust any doctor or midwife that tells you that you definitely should or shouldn't have the vaccine because so far no really know what is for the best.

I trust my doctor. At the end of the day it is a personal choice. I have weighed up all the pros and cons and decided its best to have it. You can be the most hygienic person in the world but that doesnt mean everyone around you will be. Say a random stranger passing by you in the street or on the bus coughs next to you? What if they are infected? The vaccine for me will ease my mind loads as these are the random risks that we take if we dont get it.

The leaflet I posted earlier gives a breakdown of the vaccine components and as most are made in our bodies already I am happy that Ive made an informed choice (at last!). The mercury in the vaccine is less than that of a tin of tuna and I eat a lot of tuna so it doesnt worry me!! lol

Anyway, my vaccine has been moved forward til tomorrow at 12.

Will update then :)


----------



## mummyjax

I had my jab 2 1/2 weeks ago. Last week my eldest daughter and husband had flu symptoms and it took my daughter 7 days to get back to full health. Over the weekend my youngest daughter has developed flu/cold symptoms, thankfully I haven't had any yet! On returning to school with my daughter today I was told that 50% of her class was off with flu last week. I am so glad that when I was offered the jab I didnt hesitate with it or I might have got it (if it takes 2 weeks to get immunity, chances are I wasn't fully covered when my daughter started her symptoms). I don't know for sure that it was Swine Flu but its pretty likely. I do not wish to persuade anyone either way, everyone has to be happy with whatever they decide, just wanted to let you know my experience.


----------



## JessiHD

callmepoppy said:


> JessiHD said:
> 
> 
> The problem is that no healthcare professional can actually say for certain that the jab will have no serious effects in the short term or long term for the baby as there is simply not the evidence to prove it. The best doctors will give yoiu the information available and allow you to make your own decision based on the pros and cons. I wouldn't trust any doctor or midwife that tells you that you definitely should or shouldn't have the vaccine because so far no really know what is for the best.
> 
> I trust my doctor. At the end of the day it is a personal choice. I have weighed up all the pros and cons and decided its best to have it. You can be the most hygienic person in the world but that doesnt mean everyone around you will be. Say a random stranger passing by you in the street or on the bus coughs next to you? What if they are infected? The vaccine for me will ease my mind loads as these are the random risks that we take if we dont get it.
> 
> The leaflet I posted earlier gives a breakdown of the vaccine components and as most are made in our bodies already I am happy that Ive made an informed choice (at last!). The mercury in the vaccine is less than that of a tin of tuna and I eat a lot of tuna so it doesnt worry me!! lol
> 
> Anyway, my vaccine has been moved forward til tomorrow at 12.
> 
> Will update then :)Click to expand...

I'm not saying you can't trust you doctor, I'm just saying no doctor or midwife is in a position to give you an definite answer as there is still so little evidence. It must must very frustrating for them too.


----------



## callmepoppy

My doctor did say it was ultimitely my decision but did insist that they are being advised to inform any pregnant patients that the vaccine _is the best course of action_ given that the 'pros outweighs the cons'. So while he is saying defo get it he is not misleading me in telling me that it is 110% safe and nothing at all in this world can possiby go wrong with having it, if that makes sense :wacko:

It is so frustrating for everyone, sometimes i feel itd be better if it was compulsory as then i wouldnt have to decide! 

As far as Ive read the antivirals are fda cat C as are the vaccines the only difference is with the vaccine my mind will be eased a bit and I will not have the constant worry of OMG DO I HAVE SWINE FLU everytime I cough or sneeze (which sounds exactly like me! lol) And also baby will have protection when born too which I found a major factor for me when deciding and also I dont think a lot of people are aware of this.

Im tryin to not think about it too much and just see what happens. Worst case scenario that something bad happens (as terrifying as it is) I am hoping that I can find some solace in that the decision I took was to try and protect my baby whatever happens (not digging at anyone not having it.. just saying thats how my crazy mind works!)

Anyone else due the vaccine this week?


----------



## LisaO80

I'm having mine on saturday - just felt it was right for me and it was a relief when i booked it! I commute up to London every day tho so I am slightly more at risk just due to the trains.
Have to say the more i read the happier I am i'm getting it!
Lisax


----------



## Mervs Mum

It's interesting reading through this thread that most people _seem _to be worried about a reaction to the jab and also short term effects on baby. I'm reading things like 'I've had it and I feel ok' and 'once baby is born healthy I'll feel better'. While I agree this is definitely part of my concern about having the vaccination (I am pro vax BTW) my wider concern is about effects 5/10/15 years down the line. 

I'd have thought it will all turn out to be a storm in a tea cup but who knows. :)


----------



## JessiHD

Mervs Mum said:


> It's interesting reading through this thread that most people _seem _to be worried about a reaction to the jab and also short term effects on baby. I'm reading things like 'I've had it and I feel ok' and 'once baby is born healthy I'll feel better'. While I agree this is definitely part of my concern about having the vaccination (I am pro vax BTW) my wider concern is about effects 5/10/15 years down the line.
> 
> I'd have thought it will all turn out to be a storm in a tea cup but who knows. :)

My biggest fear is that there is a long term effect that has not be detected yet, e.g. infertility. Also, not enough women have had the vaccine and given birth to healthy babies to satisfy me that it is safe. Don't forget that thalidomide was licensed and not all women given it had babies born with defects, it wasn't withdrawn until 1961. These things take time to show up and I don't think anecdotal evidence is enough. Some women can drink, some and take the odd hit of heroin during pregnancy and their babies can come out ok, but that doesn't mean it is safe for us to do it. 

My concern is that squalene, the adjuvant in Pandemrix has been shown to cause autoimmune effects such as rheumatoid arthritis in vitro, although this hasn't shown in epidemiological studies yet. 

I am also a bit worried that the US are NOT giving adjuvanted vaccines to pregnant women, why are we Europeans being the guinea pigs?

The other factor to consider is if you do catch swine flu, how ill will you actually be? There is an increased chance of hospitalisation but there is also if we catch seasonal flu. However, of course it is much worse for the baby if we are hospitalised. On balance, I am happy to take Celvapan, just not Pandemrix and I hope I am given the choice. The argument that we get protected in the first hit with Pandemrix is redundant if we'd rather not be vaccinated at all that take Pandemrix. I am fairly certain that the use of Pandemrix comes down to money not protection!


----------



## Mervs Mum

Jessi you just summed up everything I am thinking of perfectly. :)


----------



## littledancer

> My concern is that squalene, the adjuvant in Pandemrix has been shown to cause autoimmune effects such as rheumatoid arthritis in vitro, although this hasn't shown in epidemiological studies yet.
> 
> I am also a bit worried that the US are NOT giving adjuvanted vaccines to pregnant women, why are we Europeans being the guinea pigs?

I'm not sure that all vaccines in the US are un-adjuvenated. I'm in Canada and I had to insist on the un-adjuvenated one.


----------



## callmepoppy

I have faith that the UK wouldnt put its entire pregnant population at risk for the sake of money.

Both vaccines have been declared safe, if the celvapan was the only one safe then thats all they'd be given out to pregnant.

I think me and other people that have received the vaccine should be content with this and that we are now protected :)

Those of you who do not wish to have it again it is a personal choice but given the current climate I felt the vaccine was the safest choice.


----------



## Mervs Mum

The only thing I'd say about the potential cost factor (in the UK) is that my practice nurse actually agreed when I was questioning her that Celvapan does have a cost implication and she thought that may be a factor......


----------



## 2bananas

(have posted this in third tri but thought i would let you all know how i got on after having the vaccine today after all my deliberation)

Well.

I had the vaccine. I dont feel at ease from having it done, I feel just as on edge. 

I burst into tears in the nurses room and she spent ages talking to me.

I asked if she was having it and if she would have it while pregnant, she said she is having it to protect her little girl as she has a toddler and obviously wants to limit the germs she is taking home. But..... said if i was as worried as me that she would have waited anothher couple of weeks to see if the pandemic worsened as at the moment its has tailed off a bit and although they are predicting it to worsen the cannot be sure that it will. But then I said but what happens in the meantime, I walk out today and you can bloody well garauntee i'll catch it before i got the chance for a vaccination to work if I dont have it done now.

I could have had celvapan - if I waited until the end of the month and went to a clinic and she said I would have needed the 2 doses so that would take me to almost xmas - then I would only have a potential 6 weeks to go to my due date - in which case I wouldnt have been so bothered about having it done but given that I am looking at another 13weeks I just couldnt see past that.

So, she said she had a full clinic of pregnant women taking the vaccine up today, that they were all 'just pregnant' and not suffering underlying health conditions. Think this is what swayed me by the end of my half hour chat.

I just hope that my decision was the right one as I will never forgive myself if this vaccine has serious consequences for baba.

Good luck to all of you and your choice.

Oh, btw, I had it at 11am. Didnt even feel the needle, was waiting for her to put it in but she informed me she had done it - very quick.

My arm so far doesnt hurt - I cant even see where it has gone in (im starting to wonder if she did it lol). I have a slight headcahe coming on at the moment but dont know if thats related as I havnt eaten yet today so that could be whats causing that - and my little bub has been kicking away as normal.

Lets hope the side effects dont rear their ugly head 

x


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

2bananas - Do you feel better for having it now though? I can totally see where ur coming from, I'm getting mine at 7.20 this evening, and think I would rather go bunjee junping at this point :)


----------



## JessiHD

Cost is ALWAYS a factor in what we are prescribed in the NHS, it has to be. We will always have the cheaper drugs prescribed to see if it works even if there is a more effective, costlier drug. I don't think the UK government would be so reckless to give us Pandemrix if they knew it would harm a proportion of us, however there is NO EVIDENCE that squalene is safe for pregnant women, which is why I believe they are not prescribing it in the US. I think that each pregnant woman has her own factors to consider but I personally wouldn't take Pandemrix because I would stress myself out worrying about the consequences for the next 20 years and think that the risk of me catching swine flu, which I have possibly been exposed to already before I was pregnant and the infection rate is currently decreasing https://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Flu/Swineflu/DH_108401 , is less than the worry it would cause me. I am going to contact my doctor and see if he will let me jave Celvapan, which I feel is safer for me even though I still don't believe it has been tested rigourously enough.


----------



## deobi

littledancer said:


> My concern is that squalene, the adjuvant in Pandemrix has been shown to cause autoimmune effects such as rheumatoid arthritis in vitro, although this hasn't shown in epidemiological studies yet.
> 
> I am also a bit worried that the US are NOT giving adjuvanted vaccines to pregnant women, why are we Europeans being the guinea pigs?
> 
> I'm not sure that all vaccines in the US are un-adjuvenated. I'm in Canada and I had to insist on the un-adjuvenated one.Click to expand...

All the H1N1 vaccine in the US has no Adjuvent. In canada we have the choice of either. The US has said that they didn't feel the need to use something other than what has been used for decades in seasonal flu vaccines. Becasue we have national health care and a political promise to vaccinate all Canadians who want the vaccine, we needed to use the adjuvent to spread the vaccine further to more people.


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

deobi said:


> littledancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My concern is that squalene, the adjuvant in Pandemrix has been shown to cause autoimmune effects such as rheumatoid arthritis in vitro, although this hasn't shown in epidemiological studies yet.
> 
> I am also a bit worried that the US are NOT giving adjuvanted vaccines to pregnant women, why are we Europeans being the guinea pigs?
> 
> I'm not sure that all vaccines in the US are un-adjuvenated. I'm in Canada and I had to insist on the un-adjuvenated one.Click to expand...
> 
> All the H1N1 vaccine in the US has no Adjuvent. In canada we have the choice of either. The US has said that they didn't feel the need to use something other than what has been used for decades in seasonal flu vaccines. Becasue we have national health care and a political promise to vaccinate all Canadians who want the vaccine, we needed to use the adjuvent to spread the vaccine further to more people.Click to expand...

deobi - which one did you go for?


----------



## callmepoppy

2bananas said:


> (have posted this in third tri but thought i would let you all know how i got on after having the vaccine today after all my deliberation)
> 
> Well.
> 
> I had the vaccine. I dont feel at ease from having it done, I feel just as on edge.
> 
> I burst into tears in the nurses room and she spent ages talking to me.
> 
> I asked if she was having it and if she would have it while pregnant, she said she is having it to protect her little girl as she has a toddler and obviously wants to limit the germs she is taking home. But..... said if i was as worried as me that she would have waited anothher couple of weeks to see if the pandemic worsened as at the moment its has tailed off a bit and although they are predicting it to worsen the cannot be sure that it will. But then I said but what happens in the meantime, I walk out today and you can bloody well garauntee i'll catch it before i got the chance for a vaccination to work if I dont have it done now.
> 
> I could have had celvapan - if I waited until the end of the month and went to a clinic and she said I would have needed the 2 doses so that would take me to almost xmas - then I would only have a potential 6 weeks to go to my due date - in which case I wouldnt have been so bothered about having it done but given that I am looking at another 13weeks I just couldnt see past that.
> 
> So, she said she had a full clinic of pregnant women taking the vaccine up today, that they were all 'just pregnant' and not suffering underlying health conditions. Think this is what swayed me by the end of my half hour chat.
> 
> I just hope that my decision was the right one as I will never forgive myself if this vaccine has serious consequences for baba.
> 
> Good luck to all of you and your choice.
> 
> Oh, btw, I had it at 11am. Didnt even feel the needle, was waiting for her to put it in but she informed me she had done it - very quick.
> 
> My arm so far doesnt hurt - I cant even see where it has gone in (im starting to wonder if she did it lol). I have a slight headcahe coming on at the moment but dont know if thats related as I havnt eaten yet today so that could be whats causing that - and my little bub has been kicking away as normal.
> 
> Lets hope the side effects dont rear their ugly head
> 
> x

You will be fine... there will be no side effects. You and your baby are now safe. *Keep telling yourself this. * 

It will help. Helps me. I hear things on the radio now and think what a relief I dont have this hanging over me anymore.

Squalene is naturally produced in our bodies and the mercury involved was no more than half a tin of tuna (6 oz can of tuna contains 56 micrograms whereas the vaccine contained 25). Dont worry, I have every faith we will all be fine as well as our babies.

bubs is wriggling as we speak. think he's glad its done now too :D


----------



## callmepoppy

Oh and another thing the squalene added means less inactivated virus is needed which actually makes the vaccine (pandemrix) safer. The mercury is a preservative to stop any nasty bacteria infecting the vaccine and makes sure it is kept pristine. This is important i feel.


----------



## deobi

I have asthma and didn't feel like I wanted to wait for the un-adjuvented. A few weeks back they had not set a date for the un-adjuvented and so I got the adjuvented version. A decsion I now feel even better about, as it offers greater protection adn the WHO removed it's recommendation for pregnant women to get the un-adjuvent and instead recommended they get whatever its available and in fact those with underlyng health conditions to get the adjuvent as well...but my situation is rather specific without the asthma I would have taken the un-adjuvented.

I caught an un-realated cold last week and felt so horrible. I normally am better in 2-3days max. Well being pregnant and sick is no joke - I am still sick a week later after spending 5 days on my couch resting. I couldn't imagine having the flu and I am having an easy really wonderful time of pregnancy.


----------



## AimeeM

Just rung my doctors, they are expecting the jab in by Friday and are sending out letters to invite us for the vaccine. I think i will take it as i wouldn't want myself or my baby to be ill with swine flu as it is possible for it to be bad, and i have a 6 year old and a husband too.


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## tonique

I also follow this thread, thanks everybody for sharing.
I just wanted to say that in France and Spain pregnant women as well as other individuals with immune-suppressed system are getting a non adjuvanted jab- Panenza, just been approved by European authorities, took some more time. I assume it has taken longer to produce for safety...though I do not know, still I wonder how some countries seem to have managed to have their non adjuv so fast...as everybody seems to be concerned about procedures having been rushed etc
Anyway I will definitely be having the vaccin for peace of mind even if I do not have a lot of chances of catching the flu as off work at the moment and hardly using public transport, but knowing the actual chances of having complications are important (10 times more) is too scary . Pandemrix was given to pregnant women with other conditions in France, and short term side effects are being identified- nothing serious to report so far.
Of course it is a very personal decision and my friends are not having it.
Good luck to you all


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## EmmaDueInFeb

This thread has saved my sanity, don't know about anyone else's husbands, but I think mine is tired of the whole subject :)


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## AimeeM

EmmaDueInFeb said:


> This thread has saved my sanity, don't know about anyone else's husbands, but I think mine is tired of the whole subject :)

I feel like i go on and on at him too lol though he thinks i shouldn't get it...


----------



## Spanglish

Hello ladies!!
I have decided to have the vaccine, booked tomorrow at 10:50, but I'm still not 100% happy..
I'm half Spanish, and my parents say that they have started vaccinating pregnant women. All pregnant women will be given Celvapan, everyone else Pandemrix. Apparently it's the same in France and Germany. It just makes you wonder why some countries don't want to take the risk of using Pandemrix. 
I am a vet in the uk, and we vaccinate thousands and thousands of pigs weekly(please don't take offece by the comparison, but we are quite similar ha-ha!) and the vaccines we use have the same adjuvants, and all pregnant sows are vaccinated at different stages of pregnancy. You never see side effects, problems with piglets later on.....they all do fine, and have been for years.
So, I'm sure a lot of you might think it's a silly comparison, but it helps me take my decision.
Good luck with your decision!!!
And thanks to all for your comments, it's nice to know we aren't alone.


----------



## JessiHD

callmepoppy said:


> Oh and another thing the squalene added means less inactivated virus is needed which actually makes the vaccine (pandemrix) safer. The mercury is a preservative to stop any nasty bacteria infecting the vaccine and makes sure it is kept pristine. This is important i feel.

How do you work that one out? The dose of inactivated virus isn't going to make a difference to the safety. Also, yes the dose of mercury is lower than that in a can of tuna but it is going to be injected rather than ingested which makes a big difference to the dose received. I am glad you are glad with the decision you have made but I do not believe even the drugs companies would claim that Pandermrix is safer for pregnant women than Celvapan!


----------



## Scooby12345

Had pandremix last night, feel fine. Arm hurts a bit but not loads. Everything fine at the midwife this morning, baby wriggling away.

So thats the one decision made where i'm doing what i feel is best for my baby, only about another million or so to make for the rest of its childhood!!

Good luck ladies in whatever decision you make.


----------



## 2bananas

EmmaDueInFeb said:


> 2bananas - Do you feel better for having it now though? I can totally see where ur coming from, I'm getting mine at 7.20 this evening, and think I would rather go bunjee junping at this point :)

Well its 7 hours since I had the vaccine and I am feeling fine so far. I guess now that i've had it I will hopefully be protected from swine flu and I suppose at this point its the best thing I could have done. I didnt want the vaccine but equally I didnt want swine flu - and given the fact that i do a school run everyday and my daughter goes to a very large school, I suppose I am doing what I can to protect myself. If there are problems with the baby down the line then I can deal with it then but for now I have my health, my daughters health and the rest of my family as priority, my mum being a midwife means I am hearing daily updates of women in her hospital with the swine flu and some of them sound really bad.

Good luck with your vaccine, I honestly think if you have made the appointment then go through with it, if you were definite you didnt want it you wouldn't have bothered with an appointment in the first place.

Let us know how you get on xxx


----------



## 2bananas

callmepoppy said:


> 2bananas said:
> 
> 
> (have posted this in third tri but thought i would let you all know how i got on after having the vaccine today after all my deliberation)
> 
> Well.
> 
> I had the vaccine. I dont feel at ease from having it done, I feel just as on edge.
> 
> I burst into tears in the nurses room and she spent ages talking to me.
> 
> I asked if she was having it and if she would have it while pregnant, she said she is having it to protect her little girl as she has a toddler and obviously wants to limit the germs she is taking home. But..... said if i was as worried as me that she would have waited anothher couple of weeks to see if the pandemic worsened as at the moment its has tailed off a bit and although they are predicting it to worsen the cannot be sure that it will. But then I said but what happens in the meantime, I walk out today and you can bloody well garauntee i'll catch it before i got the chance for a vaccination to work if I dont have it done now.
> 
> I could have had celvapan - if I waited until the end of the month and went to a clinic and she said I would have needed the 2 doses so that would take me to almost xmas - then I would only have a potential 6 weeks to go to my due date - in which case I wouldnt have been so bothered about having it done but given that I am looking at another 13weeks I just couldnt see past that.
> 
> So, she said she had a full clinic of pregnant women taking the vaccine up today, that they were all 'just pregnant' and not suffering underlying health conditions. Think this is what swayed me by the end of my half hour chat.
> 
> I just hope that my decision was the right one as I will never forgive myself if this vaccine has serious consequences for baba.
> 
> Good luck to all of you and your choice.
> 
> Oh, btw, I had it at 11am. Didnt even feel the needle, was waiting for her to put it in but she informed me she had done it - very quick.
> 
> My arm so far doesnt hurt - I cant even see where it has gone in (im starting to wonder if she did it lol). I have a slight headcahe coming on at the moment but dont know if thats related as I havnt eaten yet today so that could be whats causing that - and my little bub has been kicking away as normal.
> 
> Lets hope the side effects dont rear their ugly head
> 
> x
> 
> You will be fine... there will be no side effects. You and your baby are now safe. *Keep telling yourself this. *
> 
> It will help. Helps me. I hear things on the radio now and think what a relief I dont have this hanging over me anymore.
> 
> Squalene is naturally produced in our bodies and the mercury involved was no more than half a tin of tuna (6 oz can of tuna contains 56 micrograms whereas the vaccine contained 25). Dont worry, I have every faith we will all be fine as well as our babies.
> 
> bubs is wriggling as we speak. think he's glad its done now too :DClick to expand...

Thanks, this is the sort of nice positive thing I need to hear right now. xxxx


----------



## Mervs Mum

2bananas - sorry if you've already addressed this but can I ask you what your mum's views were on the vaccine? :)


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

2bananas said:


> EmmaDueInFeb said:
> 
> 
> 2bananas - Do you feel better for having it now though? I can totally see where ur coming from, I'm getting mine at 7.20 this evening, and think I would rather go bunjee junping at this point :)
> 
> Well its 7 hours since I had the vaccine and I am feeling fine so far. I guess now that i've had it I will hopefully be protected from swine flu and I suppose at this point its the best thing I could have done. I didnt want the vaccine but equally I didnt want swine flu - and given the fact that i do a school run everyday and my daughter goes to a very large school, I suppose I am doing what I can to protect myself. If there are problems with the baby down the line then I can deal with it then but for now I have my health, my daughters health and the rest of my family as priority, my mum being a midwife means I am hearing daily updates of women in her hospital with the swine flu and some of them sound really bad.
> 
> Good luck with your vaccine, I honestly think if you have made the appointment then go through with it, if you were definite you didnt want it you wouldn't have bothered with an appointment in the first place.
> 
> Let us know how you get on xxxClick to expand...

I'm just the same, I don't want either the jag or the flu, if only I could live in a bubble for the next 3 months :) Its a no win situation really, but when you hear the stories of how ill these women are getting, even though they get better, who wants to go through that. I can't believe it would be any less harmful to your baby! Its the unknown thats scary about the whole thing, but you did what was best, and you can only be proud of that ! I know alot of women in their 1st trimester are dead against it, but its a different story when ur heading into your 3rd ! plus I have an 18 mth old terror who needs me too :)


----------



## 2bananas

Mervs Mum said:


> 2bananas - sorry if you've already addressed this but can I ask you what your mum's views were on the vaccine? :)

She had her vaccine last week and was also fine - although not pregnant but still, all the midwives (including 1 pregnant one) had the pandemrix last week that work on her ward and none had any side effects.

She has has seen loads of women, some critical with swine flu and when the jab became available told me to just get it - despite initial conversations where we both couldnt decide the best course of action. However, I sent her on a mission to go and speak to all the doctors at work in all the weird and wonderful depeartments and they all recommended I get it, told her to tell me I would be silly to turn it down -obviously they get to see the effects of swine flu on vulnerable patients so this will be a factor for them.

My mum is glad I had it and said I did the right thing, apparently mums know best :thumbup:

Lets hope so!!!

xxxx


----------



## 2bananas

EmmaDueInFeb said:


> 2bananas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EmmaDueInFeb said:
> 
> 
> 2bananas - Do you feel better for having it now though? I can totally see where ur coming from, I'm getting mine at 7.20 this evening, and think I would rather go bunjee junping at this point :)
> 
> Well its 7 hours since I had the vaccine and I am feeling fine so far. I guess now that i've had it I will hopefully be protected from swine flu and I suppose at this point its the best thing I could have done. I didnt want the vaccine but equally I didnt want swine flu - and given the fact that i do a school run everyday and my daughter goes to a very large school, I suppose I am doing what I can to protect myself. If there are problems with the baby down the line then I can deal with it then but for now I have my health, my daughters health and the rest of my family as priority, my mum being a midwife means I am hearing daily updates of women in her hospital with the swine flu and some of them sound really bad.
> 
> Good luck with your vaccine, I honestly think if you have made the appointment then go through with it, if you were definite you didnt want it you wouldn't have bothered with an appointment in the first place.
> 
> Let us know how you get on xxxClick to expand...
> 
> I'm just the same, I don't want either the jag or the flu, if only I could live in a bubble for the next 3 months :)  Its a no win situation really, but when you hear the stories of how ill these women are getting, even though they get better, who wants to go through that. I can't believe it would be any less harmful to your baby! Its the unknown thats scary about the whole thing, but you did what was best, and you can only be proud of that ! I know alot of women in their 1st trimester are dead against it, but its a different story when ur heading into your 3rd ! plus I have an 18 mth old terror who needs me too :)Click to expand...

The unknown is scary - but what we know about swine flu is scary too. 

The pharmaceutical companies would not roll out a vaccine and deem it safe unless they were almost sure it was - think of the lawsuits. However, nothing is a certainty.

Also, in years to come when they find there is probably nothing wrong with the vaccine - how many people will have died from refusing it?

You just have to do whats best for yourself now - and not worry about the future, this is what i have been trying to tell myself, and hopefully, i'll start listening soon x


----------



## callmepoppy

JessiHD said:


> callmepoppy said:
> 
> 
> Oh and another thing the squalene added means less inactivated virus is needed which actually makes the vaccine (pandemrix) safer. The mercury is a preservative to stop any nasty bacteria infecting the vaccine and makes sure it is kept pristine. This is important i feel.
> 
> How do you work that one out? The dose of inactivated virus isn't going to make a difference to the safety. Also, yes the dose of mercury is lower than that in a can of tuna but it is going to be injected rather than ingested which makes a big difference to the dose received. I am glad you are glad with the decision you have made but I do not believe even the drugs companies would claim that Pandermrix is safer for pregnant women than Celvapan!Click to expand...

I do not appreciate the tone used here to be honest.

Any info i got was from the NHS leaflet and choices website as posted (2 of the three only reliable sources given to me by the Scottish Swine Flu Vaccine Helpline - the other being the WHO) These clearly state that when the level of inactivated virus is lowered it makes a vaccine safer. I DID NOT STATE IT MADE IT SAFER THAN CELVAPAN if you read what I wrote properly. However the NHS also recommend that pandermix is given to pregnant women OVER the celvapan - again from the leaflet (on page 24 I believe).

I will be doing my best to stay clear of reading or posting further in this thread simply because as 2bananas stated its positive things we need to hear right now so I will be _trying_ to restrict myself to this. Thank you to everyone for your helpful posts that were a great help during this time and helped me towards making my decision.

I am happy with my decision and wish everyone good luck with theirs :flower:.


----------



## Caroline

My managers surgery got there vaccines & shes getting hers on Sat. I'm gonna phone my Drs tomoorrow & pester them. I'm starting to worry. A few kids are dropping with colds & high temps. Not sure if its actually swine flu, but its starting to make me nervous.


----------



## JessiHD

By the way, it is interesting to note that the World Health Organisation recommended that pregnant women should be given the non-adjuvanted vaccine. I think our government should offer both to pregnant women, giving the pros and cons of each rather than what seems like a big PR campaign for Pandemrix from the Department of Health.


----------



## 2bananas

JessiHD said:


> By the way, it is interesting to note that the World Health Organisation recommended that pregnant women should be given the non-adjuvanted vaccine. I think our government should offer both to pregnant women, giving the pros and cons of each rather than what seems like a big PR campaign for Pandemrix from the Department of Health.

They are both available- you just have to wait longer for Celvapan, private sessions are being held in various places for you to go and have the celvapan if you wish, it is worth asking your surgery where your nearest one is.

The department of health has recommended both vaccines, they have not said that we should only have pandemrix, but pandemrix immunises those who have it quicker than celvapan.

This thread is starting to turn into scaremongering and for those who have already had pandemrix they are being made to feel like they have done something wrong.

We all have an opinion - but nobodys opinion should be making someone else feel bad.

x


----------



## callmepoppy

2bananas said:


> JessiHD said:
> 
> 
> By the way, it is interesting to note that the World Health Organisation recommended that pregnant women should be given the non-adjuvanted vaccine. I think our government should offer both to pregnant women, giving the pros and cons of each rather than what seems like a big PR campaign for Pandemrix from the Department of Health.
> 
> They are both available- you just have to wait longer for Celvapan, private sessions are being held in various places for you to go and have the celvapan if you wish, it is worth asking your surgery where your nearest one is.
> 
> The department of health has recommended both vaccines, they have not said that we should only have pandemrix, but pandemrix immunises those who have it quicker than celvapan.
> 
> This thread is starting to turn into scaremongering and for those who have already had pandemrix they are being made to feel like they have done something wrong.
> 
> We all have an opinion - but nobodys opinion should be making someone else feel bad.
> 
> xClick to expand...

Agree x


----------



## Mervs Mum

I can understand why people feel uneasy about the information being given out. WHO were originally saying Celvapan was preferred for pg women but Pandemrix was ok in the absence of a choice. It's a kind of mixed message isnt it? Next they say both are fine.....of course people are going to hope they can get their hands on Celvapan to be on the 'safe side' for want of a better expression.

It's so hard. I think so long as everyone remembers that we all have differing reasons for making any decision and that we have one very important thing in common - we all just want to do the best by us, our families and your babies - then no one should be made to feel good or bad about their choices. :)


----------



## JessiHD

As far as I'm aware they are only giving Celvapan to people with confirmed allergies. 

I don't want to be seen as scaremongering but I think if we only had positive pandemrix stories then it could cloud the debate. People need to have a balanced view to make their decision and I'm sorry if that makes people who have had pandemrix already feel uneasy but then those of us who are planning not to have the vaccine are being made uneasy by people saying that now they won't be dying of swine flu.


----------



## Mervs Mum

Absolutely Jess. At this point I wont be having either so I feel the same. :?


----------



## modo

I am not technically in the second trimester yet but I though I should post my experience. I got the Swine Flu vaccine yesterday at my local surgery and I feel quite happy about my decision. My uncle is an obstetric consultant and recommended that I get it done. I am definitely not trying to persuade anyone to get this vaccine as it is a personal decision that you have to make based on your lifestyle. 

I have gotten the flu twice since being pregnant once in October and once in November. The second time was terrible with a elevated temp and difficulty breathing. After recovering from this I decided to get the vaccine as I work in a hospital. Although the hospital has big signs on the main doors warning people with flu like symptoms to go home and call the national number, people still come in when they are ill.

I just did not want to take any chances as I am in contact with many people everyday.


----------



## Mervs Mum

Health workers must be at a much increased risk so you have no choice really do you - I;d do the same. My Dr surgery wanted me to go in to have some blood results confirmed and I refused. I said I dont want to be where there are potentially people with flu and bugs. The receptionist said 'people dont come here with flu' to which I asked could she guarentee that? Like you said Modo you can ask them to stay away but you cant guarantee it can you. :hug:


----------



## mynnx

dr hilary jones was on my local radio station this morning saying if he was pregnant he would NOT have the vaccine.. im waiting for OH to get home to find out the full story and what his reasons were x


----------



## 2bananas

JessiHD said:


> As far as I'm aware they are only giving Celvapan to people with confirmed allergies.
> 
> I don't want to be seen as scaremongering but I think if we only had positive pandemrix stories then it could cloud the debate. People need to have a balanced view to make their decision and I'm sorry if that makes people who have had pandemrix already feel uneasy but then those of us who are planning not to have the vaccine are being made uneasy by people saying that now they won't be dying of swine flu.

But isnt it better that the pandemrix stories we are hearing ARE positive? I would much rather this than women saying they are having serious complictaions???? I dont think anyone is trying to cloud the debate, but the fact is we donty have any negative stories so far so we?

I think if you arent having the vaccine - good for you! Because when it came down to it I just wasnt brave enough to risk the next 13 weeks and possibly getting the flu ( I wish I could have been but I wasnt). I hope the people that dont have the vaccine dont get flu. Equally I hope the people who have had the vaccine go on to have healthy babies - which I am sure is the case. There isnt actually anything in the vaccine that is recognised as causing birth defects.

Also - Celvapan is being offered, as I said you have to wait longer but it will be available to people in seperate clinics.


----------



## Luella123

Dr Hillary was also on Gmtv saying the same thing! Brilliant timing I thought considering thousands of women have already had it and he is confusing the rest who haven't made their minds up! I had it 2 days ago so am quite upset he is speaking out now. Also am sure a month ago he was saying get it! Anyway no side effects so far! Just extra stress and worry that I don't need!


----------



## 2bananas

Luella123 said:


> Dr Hillary was also on Gmtv saying the same thing! Brilliant timing I thought considering thousands of women have already had it and he is confusing the rest who haven't made their minds up! I had it 2 days ago so am quite upset he is speaking out now. Also am sure a month ago he was saying get it! Anyway no side effects so far! Just extra stress and worry that I don't need!

When even the health professionals cant make up their mind I think its safe to say we can only go with what we feel is right x


----------



## EmmaMarch2010

I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.

What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?


----------



## callmepoppy

2bananas said:


> JessiHD said:
> 
> 
> As far as I'm aware they are only giving Celvapan to people with confirmed allergies.
> 
> I don't want to be seen as scaremongering but I think if we only had positive pandemrix stories then it could cloud the debate. People need to have a balanced view to make their decision and I'm sorry if that makes people who have had pandemrix already feel uneasy but then those of us who are planning not to have the vaccine are being made uneasy by people saying that now they won't be dying of swine flu.
> 
> But isnt it better that the pandemrix stories we are hearing ARE positive? I would much rather this than women saying they are having serious complictaions???? I dont think anyone is trying to cloud the debate, but the fact is we donty have any negative stories so far so we?
> 
> I think if you arent having the vaccine - good for you! Because when it came down to it I just wasnt brave enough to risk the next 13 weeks and possibly getting the flu ( I wish I could have been but I wasnt). I hope the people that dont have the vaccine dont get flu. Equally I hope the people who have had the vaccine go on to have healthy babies - which I am sure is the case. There isnt actually anything in the vaccine that is recognised as causing birth defects.
> 
> Also - Celvapan is being offered, as I said you have to wait longer but it will be available to people in seperate clinics.Click to expand...

Again I agree. My surgery also informed me if I waited I could have the celvepan. If you ask for if they cannot refuse. Its just another waiting game and I wasnt up for that - harder enough for me to decide!

Done now :D

Also I have yet to come across a post where someone has written 'at least they wont be dying of swine flu' and dont think there is anyone on here who would say that. People who have had the jab should be allowed to share positive stories with one another. We cant take our decision back like all those not having the vaccine who can decide to have to have it anytime - I think thats completely different.

But in saying that there has been a thread started for positive stories which is really good.

But as 2bananas said there have been no horror stories about pandemrix yet - just assumptions and speculations. A decision this important should not be solely based on that. Hence why its such a hard decision! Everyone so far has been fine. We should stick to facts, is that not best?

Trust us all to fall pregnant during a flippin' pandemic! :wacko:


----------



## Xanthe

EmmaMarch2010 said:


> I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.
> 
> *What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?*



He said that the supposed "pandemic" has not occurred and is unlikely to.

My nephew supposedly had "swine flu" and his school was closed for a week. However, neither he or the other pupils were "swabbed"and the results anaylsed. 

So how on earth are they diagnosing it as "swine flu" rather than normal flu. My sister in law said he was fine and has been more poorly with a normal cold.

For some reason this government is very keen on us all being injected with this vacine.


----------



## Luella123

He just said that it looked like the numbers weren't increasing as much as previously thought really. I don't think he defended or gave enough information for his recommendation. Just we weren't 100% sure of it's safety in pregnant women. He admitted he was going against government guidelines. Anyway I had the jab after speaking to 3 different doctors. What I take issue with is that Dr Hillary has chosen to speak out now and very publically when he must know thousands of pregnant women have had the jab. Also GMTV have had many doctors on in the last few months defending the jab so they are sending out mixed messages.


----------



## mrsaligee

Hi all
Sorry been AWOL for a while, not been very well and have been off work. Doc said to take it easy.

I got my swine flu jab last Thursday and as I'd got myself in a right tizz about it felt calmer afterwards. I got 20 pages of info on the vaccine from my pregnant doctor who is also having it and felt that it was the right thing to do. Baby girl's kicks have been increasing in intensity and she keeps me awake at night now!

I did hear back from my cousin in Oz who is also a nurse. All she could tell me was that there is nothing in the news over there and all the fuss has died down. Had there been some issues then I'm sure it would have hit the headlines.

Like so many on this thread before me I would say that it is personal choice, but quite frankly I did not want to end up like the poor lady near me who was 10 years younger than me (I am a fossil mum!) , got swine flu and unfortunately did not survive.

Great to hear that some who have had the jab have given birth to healthy babies...

Thanks to all - the information given on here was better than some of the other forums I have been on. :hugs:

Mrsaligee


----------



## JessiHD

I'm not saying we shouldn't have positive stories, in fact I'm very glad there are positives stories and I will be very happy to be proven wrong in 10 years time when all the information is available! I'm just saying that those of us who are not taking the vaccine because we think there is insufficient evidence to prove it's safety should have our say too. 
Even the vaccine manufactors say there is no safety info yet:

"There are currently no data available on the use of Pandemrix&#8482; (H1N1) in pregnancy. Data from pregnant women vaccinated with *different inactivated non-adjuvanted seasonal vaccines *do not suggest malformations or foetal or neonatal toxicity."

https://health.gsk.com/hcp/H1N1Vaccine/safety.htm


The reported side-effects of Pandemrix have been much more severe so far but I am unsure whether that is because there is more chance of an allergic reaction due to it being made from eggs.

Just because we have Celvapan or Pandemrix does not mean we have 100% protection against swine flu, however the clinical trials showed a minimum of 70% of people produced antibodies in response to the vaccine, I cannot find the data for the maximum but it does state on the GSK website that not all vaccinations willl lead to immunisation. It is important that any pregnant woman, vaccinated or not, should seek medical advice if she develops flu like symptoms.

I am happy to wait for Celvapan, probably by the time it becomes available the pandemic will be pretty much over. The infection rates are slowing and even if I do catch it, it's more likely that I'll just be sniffling on the sofa for a few days than I'll end up hospitalised or worse.


----------



## Mervs Mum

Well I jut got the call.....would you like to come for a swine flu vaccination....I said it depends on which one you're offering and they said they only have Pandemrix at the moment......so I declined but told them if they get Celvapan I'd like to be contacted......so there it is.....done.....:?


----------



## Luuluu

Xanthe said:


> EmmaMarch2010 said:
> 
> 
> I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.
> 
> *What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?*
> 
> 
> 
> He said that the supposed "pandemic" has not occurred and is unlikely to.
> 
> My nephew supposedly had "swine flu" and his school was closed for a week. However, neither he or the other pupils were "swabbed"and the results anaylsed.
> 
> So how on earth are they diagnosing it as "swine flu" rather than normal flu. My sister in law said he was fine and has been more poorly with a normal cold.
> 
> For some reason this government is very keen on us all being injected with this vacine.Click to expand...


Hi Xanthe

Your last comment is what I've been wondering! Why is the Government so intent on administering EVERYONE with this vaccine? I read an extremely controversial artical written by David Iyke who had several theories, backed up by facts and research, as to why the government wants everyone vaccinated. It got me really thinking. If you'd like to read it, I'll dig it out!

xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## JessiHD

Luuluu said:


> Xanthe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EmmaMarch2010 said:
> 
> 
> I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.
> 
> *What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?*
> 
> 
> 
> He said that the supposed "pandemic" has not occurred and is unlikely to.
> 
> My nephew supposedly had "swine flu" and his school was closed for a week. However, neither he or the other pupils were "swabbed"and the results anaylsed.
> 
> So how on earth are they diagnosing it as "swine flu" rather than normal flu. My sister in law said he was fine and has been more poorly with a normal cold.
> 
> For some reason this government is very keen on us all being injected with this vacine.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Xanthe
> 
> Your last comment is what I've been wondering! Why is the Government so intent on administering EVERYONE with this vaccine? I read an extremely controversial artical written by David Iyke who had several theories, backed up by facts and research, as to why the government wants everyone vaccinated. It got me really thinking. If you'd like to read it, I'll dig it out!
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxClick to expand...

Apart from not wanting people to be seriously ill, which I'm sure even the most cynical of politician cares about (I hope!), I do think economics has a large part to play in Governments wanting us vaccinated. It costs millions and millions for lots of people to be off sick due to a flu pandemic.


----------



## 2bananas

i really wouldnt read anthing written by David iyke - unless you are able to read it and realise what a moron he is and not believe a word. Seriously - this does not make interesting reading and isnt something I would recommend any pregnant woman making a personal decision about the vaccine should not consider his theories - its bull crap!


----------



## Mervs Mum

David Iyke who believes that there is a reptile race trying to take over the earth whilst disguised in human form? David Iyke who claims to have been abducted by aliens?

I'd take his article with a very large salt mine.


----------



## mummyjax

2bananas said:


> i really wouldnt read anthing written by David iyke - unless you are able to read it and realise what a moron he is and not believe a word. Seriously - this does not make interesting reading and isnt something I would recommend any pregnant woman making a personal decision about the vaccine should not consider his theories - its bull crap!

Totally agree. This is gettin more and more ridiculous. I do not suggest reading it either cos if you are the slightest bit gullible then all you will do is scare yourself.


----------



## Indy Princess

My GP Surgery just called and offered me the vaccine on December 3rd (the day before my 20wk scan), I accepted as I have already had a respiratory tract infection this year and am currently undergoing observation for possible Asthma. I have an appointment with my Midwife on the 25th November where I shall discuss it and make a decision. I don't know which vaccine I am being offered, but as the Midwife sees me at my GP Surgery I should be able to just ask at reception which vaccine I shall receive.

I am afraid of the risks to baby, but if I catch the flu (any flu) and am as ill as I was with my RTI, I actually think that would cause damage to him/her as well. It's so confusing, I just have to hope I'm making the right decision. Thank you for this thread as it is helping to put my mind at rest and is also filling me with some much needed facts.


----------



## AimeeM

Luuluu said:


> Xanthe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EmmaMarch2010 said:
> 
> 
> I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.
> 
> *What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?*
> 
> 
> 
> He said that the supposed "pandemic" has not occurred and is unlikely to.
> 
> My nephew supposedly had "swine flu" and his school was closed for a week. However, neither he or the other pupils were "swabbed"and the results anaylsed.
> 
> So how on earth are they diagnosing it as "swine flu" rather than normal flu. My sister in law said he was fine and has been more poorly with a normal cold.
> 
> For some reason this government is very keen on us all being injected with this vacine.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Xanthe
> 
> Your last comment is what I've been wondering! Why is the Government so intent on administering EVERYONE with this vaccine? I read an extremely controversial artical written by David Iyke who had several theories, backed up by facts and research, as to why the government wants everyone vaccinated. It got me really thinking. If you'd like to read it, I'll dig it out!
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxClick to expand...

Agree!!


----------



## JessiHD

Mervs Mum said:


> David Iyke who believes that there is a reptile race trying to take over the earth whilst disguised in human form? David Iyke who claims to have been abducted by aliens?
> 
> I'd take his article with a very large salt mine.

Maybe those who are vaccinated will turn into reptiles?! :haha:


----------



## Xanthe

AimeeM said:


> Luuluu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xanthe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EmmaMarch2010 said:
> 
> 
> I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.
> 
> *What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?*
> 
> 
> 
> He said that the supposed "pandemic" has not occurred and is unlikely to.
> 
> My nephew supposedly had "swine flu" and his school was closed for a week. However, neither he or the other pupils were "swabbed"and the results anaylsed.
> 
> So how on earth are they diagnosing it as "swine flu" rather than normal flu. My sister in law said he was fine and has been more poorly with a normal cold.
> 
> For some reason this government is very keen on us all being injected with this vacine.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Xanthe
> 
> Your last comment is what I've been wondering! Why is the Government so intent on administering EVERYONE with this vaccine? I read an extremely controversial artical written by David Iyke who had several theories, backed up by facts and research, as to why the government wants everyone vaccinated. It got me really thinking. If you'd like to read it, I'll dig it out!
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxClick to expand...
> 
> Agree!!Click to expand...

I think people just need to "question everything" they are told by our beloved media. No harm in that is there comrades?


----------



## JessiHD

Xanthe said:


> AimeeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luuluu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xanthe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EmmaMarch2010 said:
> 
> 
> I've now had my letter from the doc to go for the jab on Saturday. Still undecided. So many mixed messages.
> 
> *What exactly were Dr Hilarys reasons for not recommending it to pregnant women?*
> 
> 
> 
> He said that the supposed "pandemic" has not occurred and is unlikely to.
> 
> My nephew supposedly had "swine flu" and his school was closed for a week. However, neither he or the other pupils were "swabbed"and the results anaylsed.
> 
> So how on earth are they diagnosing it as "swine flu" rather than normal flu. My sister in law said he was fine and has been more poorly with a normal cold.
> 
> For some reason this government is very keen on us all being injected with this vacine.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Xanthe
> 
> Your last comment is what I've been wondering! Why is the Government so intent on administering EVERYONE with this vaccine? I read an extremely controversial artical written by David Iyke who had several theories, backed up by facts and research, as to why the government wants everyone vaccinated. It got me really thinking. If you'd like to read it, I'll dig it out!
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxClick to expand...
> 
> Agree!!Click to expand...
> 
> I think people just need to "question everything" they are told by our beloved media. No harm in that is there comrades?Click to expand...

Agreed.


----------



## Mervs Mum

Absolutely! :thumbup:


----------



## Xanthe

And whilst I'm mid rant, I heard on the Government' mouthpiece, The BBC, this evening that a "survey" (cough cough, splutter, splutter) has been conducted whereby it found that 51% of the British Public would be happy to have the vaccine. 

That still means 49% would NOT be happy ..but this was conveniently ignored. Who was included in the sample of this study, did it include pregnant women and other vunerable groups? 

Reading between the lines, people are not choosing to get vaccinated and Nanny is not happy! Hence the above morsel of propaganda.


----------



## callmepoppy

They want everyone to have it because its killing people and is already showing resistance to tamiflu (reported cases in scotland and some in japan). If we all catch this virus which is becoming resistant to our antivirals then how are we gonna treat it?! The vaccine is even more important in light of this (whichever one you get)

Of course there is media hype - its a new strain of virus and is controversial and the media will milk it for what its worth - just as they are milking 'whether or not the vaccine is safe'! Its the exact same - its the media! Everything is biased and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

If you are going to reject all media lark regarding swine flu hype (inflated figures etc) then you should reject it ALL - even the stuff you agree on!

David Iyke is a twat for want of a better world - perhaps he was abducted and even the aliens did want him that they stuck him back with us! :haha:


----------



## JessiHD

The death rate of swine flu is comparable to a moderate year of seasonal flu which is good news for all of us. Especially as the rate of infection is dropping. When swine flu first came out, I'm not sure how much was 'hype' and how much was 'worse case scenario'. No-one could predict the death rates or infection rates would be lower than expected but we are jolly lucky they are. It could have been as bad as the 1918-1919 pandemic and then we would have really been in trouble. The U.S. Goverment have set the swine flu pandemic at a 'Catergory 1' pandemic, which is comparable to a seasonal flu epidemic which a death rate of less than 0.1%, the Swine Flu death rate is 0.007% to 0.045%. The 1918-1919 flu pandemic was at Catergory 5, which has a death rate of 2%. I think the possibilty has been raised that there is some pre-existing immunnity from a previous infection which would make sense.

https://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/News.aspx?ListID=8&CurrentPage=4&NewsId={886139D5-A9E8-4B3A-AB51-D8C2DFA75C6E}

In terms of vaccination GPs have to vaccinate 50.7% of the priority groups in order not to lose out financially. Why does everything in healthcare nowadays seem to come down to money, it's so depressing? If the Government didn't give GPs these targets it would make their advice more impartial but as soon as financial incentives are brought in, people start to doubt their motives.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4124271&cid=Latest_headlines_1_101109
Anyway, no pregnant woman has reported anything terrible from the vaccination, infection rates are dropping and death rates are the same as seasonal flu so hopefully we can all start worrying a bit less whether vaccinated or not!


----------



## mummyjax

I wonder what peoples view would be if the shoe was on the other foot and the Government had done absolutely nothing to protect the public and the strain had been as virulent as first predicted and thousands of people were losing their lives! Lets just be thankful that they were overly cautious!


----------



## JessiHD

mummyjax said:


> I wonder what peoples view would be if the shoe was on the other foot and the Government had done absolutely nothing to protect the public and the strain had been as virulent as first predicted and thousands of people were losing their lives! Lets just be thankful that they were overly cautious!

Of course! I am very grateful that it is not as bad as first thought but there needs to be a reassessment of the risks now.


----------



## kermie219

I wish everyone would stop being so judgemental of people's decisions on both sides of the debate! Be informed get information but don't belittle other people or their decision in the process.


----------



## tinytoes1904

kermie219 said:


> I wish everyone would stop being so judgemental of people's decisions on both sides of the debate! Be informed get information but don't belittle other people or their decision in the process.

Well said Kermie :thumbup:


----------



## deobi

Just think if H1N1 had been discovered a few months sooner it would have just been included in the regular flu shot and those who get flu shots would likely have it and those who don't probably wouldn't....although anacdotally many dr's here are reporting much busier offices and hosptials compared to others with those with flu-like symptoms but that may be becasue people ar more likely to see a dr due to the hype.

I also read an interesting article in a national paper here that spoke of not being able to compare the numbers of this flu vs regular flu becasue the way they calculate the numbers is different so its appples and oranges...sorry if im vague but the point was we wouldn't know the true extent of the flu for quite some time


----------



## Luuluu

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned David Iyke! oOPS! It was an interesting read and I didn't take it literally...each to their own eh! Who knows what's true and what's not. Just be as informed as possible is my philosophy...
xxxx


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

Is it just me, or is this thread starting to get a bit nasty???


----------



## tinytoes1904

EmmaDueInFeb said:


> Is it just me, or is this thread starting to get a bit nasty???

Its not just you xx


----------



## mummyjax

Dr Hilary was on GMTV this morning with another GP and he said he wouldn't advise his partner to get it if she was pregnant because he didnt feel the threat was as bad as first predicted and said it was not that he felt it was unsafe. The other GP urged pregnant women to get it especially if they have an underlying condition but they cannot be forced. When asked if the women who had followed Dr Hilary's earlier advise to have the jab should be worried that he is now saying no to it, he said no they shouldn't be worried about the fact that they have had it. 

No wonder so many people are confused about what to do, but they said talk about it with your GP and make an informed decision based on your individual risk and health circumstances.

I for one will be so glad when all this is over, everyone is ok and we can all focus on something else!


----------



## Luuluu

izzies_mom said:


> EmmaDueInFeb said:
> 
> 
> Is it just me, or is this thread starting to get a bit nasty???
> 
> Its not just you xxClick to expand...

It's probably people just getting worked up about certain things...in this instance it was Iyke. I don't think it's nasty, I just think it's worry. 
xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Xanthe

Luuluu said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned David Iyke! oOPS! It was an interesting read and I didn't take it literally...each to their own eh! Who knows what's true and what's not. Just be as informed as possible is my philosophy...
> xxxx

You did nowt wrong love.:hugs:.......... it was others who got really silly about it.

People need to look beyond the information that is given to them. Its quite simple really.


----------



## JessiHD

Xanthe said:


> Luuluu said:
> 
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned David Iyke! oOPS! It was an interesting read and I didn't take it literally...each to their own eh! Who knows what's true and what's not. Just be as informed as possible is my philosophy...
> xxxx
> 
> You did nowt wrong love.:hugs:.......... it was others who got really silly about it.
> 
> People need to look beyond the information that is given to them. Its quite simple really.Click to expand...

I was only joking about the vaccine turning us into reptiles, I hope you didn't take offence as I was just being silly. I really agree that we need to challenge the evidence presented to us and it is a hotly debated topic even amoungst our doctors. Even if David Iyke has some pretty out there theories, it doesn't mean that he is always wrong. Most of the pro vaccine information in the UK is coming from the Government and we can't always trust them to tell us the truth! There is a really interesting article in the British Medical Journal about the H1N1 vaccine and consent:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2009/11/1...med-consent-the-doctor-and-h1n1-immunisation/


My favourite section is how reliable is the data:

"The origins of Department of Health data are not as transparent as published research. The information is as trustworthy as any recent UK government information. Evidence for the effectiveness of influenza vaccines is not very strong. There is no strong evidence from randomised controlled trials and observational have major weaknesses. A sceptical view is that, Evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured."


----------



## Carmela

Hi all,

Last month I received a call from the surgery and was told that I was first in their list for swine flu vaccinations as I was pregnant. I was supposed to have the vaccine 2 weeks ago but said that I was affraid of having it after having read some worrying things about it. I was informed that if I decided to have it, I should ring them before the beginning of December as there is another vaccination date at that time. 

So last month I was searching for topics like this like mad but only found you yesterday and still have not managed to read the whole thread fully (but getting there). Thank you for such a useful thread. 

I am 23 weeks pregnant now. I read here that no pregnant women have reported any big problems after receiving the vaccine. I read that the swine flu vaccines have not been tested properly and I can't help thinking - what if the side effects take some time to manifest, or if they become more apparent when the baby is born? How is one to determine if some illness, that happened later, was not related to this jab?

Do I make sense or am I just being paranoid? :wacko:


----------



## Windmills

I really don't know what to do, I assumed I'd been bypassed as I'm otherwise healthy and I live in an area with a LOT of old people so thought they'd be first priority. However, I've just received a phone call asking me to make an appointment for the vaccine- I booked in on Monday at 11am, but I'm not sure whether I'll phone and cancel. My situation is that generally, I have a very good immune system- it's extremely rare that I catch anything at all, maybe a cold over the winter but I don't get stomach bugs and have never had flu. But I'm going to be working with the public (in the JobCentre, people still come in to sign on etc when they're really sick) throughout my second and third trimester. 
On one hand, I think I should get it because of the 'what if' factor. But on the other, if I wasn't pregnant I wouldn't even contemplate it. I'm literally just days out of first tri, and I'm not sure I want to take the risk of miscarriage. What would you do?


----------



## JessiHD

Carmela said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Last month I received a call from the surgery and was told that I was first in their list for swine flu vaccinations as I was pregnant. I was supposed to have the vaccine 2 weeks ago but said that I was affraid of having it after having read some worrying things about it. I was informed that if I decided to have it, I should ring them before the beginning of December as there is another vaccination date at that time.
> 
> So last month I was searching for topics like this like mad but only found you yesterday and still have not managed to read the whole thread fully (but getting there). Thank you for such a useful thread.
> 
> I am 23 weeks pregnant now. I read here that no pregnant women have reported any big problems after receiving the vaccine. I read that the swine flu vaccines have not been tested properly and I can't help thinking - what if the side effects take some time to manifest, or if they become more apparent when the baby is born? How is one to determine if some illness, that happened later, was not related to this jab?
> 
> Do I make sense or am I just being paranoid? :wacko:

You make sense, you're not being paranoid! It's a hard choce to make. You and your baby are *likely* to have no ill effects from the vaccine and it is *likely* that it will give you some protection against swine flu but there is no guarantee that it is safe or effective. It is about weighing up what your personal fears are against your personal benefits. I was pretty much on the fence about it but after doing some research in medical journals and such like I have decided not to take it. However, if the pandemic death rate dramatically worsens (it is similar to seasonal flu at the moment) I may change my mind. If I had any other complications such as asthma, heart conditions or a morbid fear of swine flu then I would have taken it. 
I do urge all pregnant women who have had it, not to ignore any flu symptoms on the basis you are protected because there is a good chance (between 10%-30%)you are infected despite immunisation.


----------



## Carmela

JessiHD said:


> You make sense, you're not being paranoid! It's a hard choce to make. You and your baby are *likely* to have no ill effects from the vaccine and it is *likely* that it will give you some protection against swine flu but there is no guarantee that it is safe or effective. It is about weighing up what your personal fears are against your personal benefits. I was pretty much on the fence about it but after doing some research in medical journals and such like I have decided not to take it. However, if the pandemic death rate dramatically worsens (it is similar to seasonal flu at the moment) I may change my mind. If I had any other complications such as asthma, heart conditions or a morbid fear of swine flu then I would have taken it.
> I do urge all pregnant women who have had it, not to ignore any flu symptoms on the basis you are protected because there is a good chance (between 10%-30%)you are infected despite immunisation.


Thanks a lot Jessi! (I will also be a March mummy and also on team blue :thumbup:).
The risks are what I have been thinking about a lot. I left work early in my pregnancy as it was stressful and 40 miles away from my town, so I consider myself low risk at the moment. The thing is that my hubby commutes to London every day on trains and tube and usually brings flu home at least 2 times every winter. I would rather him get vaccinated but not sure if I will be able to arrange this at the surgery.

There is another thing - I am thinking of flying to another Eu country for the birth of my baby as my parents live there and I want them to help me in the first couple of months after the birth as this is my first baby. They will not be able to come around here for various reasons. So flying worries me a lot as it involves mixing with many people and sitting in a closed space where bugs spread easily (luckily not a long haul flight). Then, I cannot easily assess how the flu rate will develop over there in the coming winter months.

I have no special health concerns and my pregnancy has been going well so far. I have an appointment with the midwife on Monday 30 November and have to wait till then to talk with her. Will let you know what she says, but I expect her to recommend the vaccine.


----------



## EmmaMarch2010

I think the first step in all of this is to weigh up your own personal circumstances to try and evaluate if you are more at risk of catching swine flu.

I have no children, I'm not in regular contact with under 5 year olds (who are the age group spreading the virus most at this time). I consider myself fit, dont have asthma and feel my immuity to colds and flus is pretty good. I've had seasonal flu jab and I try to eat balanced foods (even though Im pregnant and partial to the odd donut or two!) and make sure I get regular vitamin c and antioxidants.

For these reasons I'm of the mind that I wont get the swine flu jab because I dont feel I am at a heightened risk of catching it. Even though I do commute on trains everyday and work in an airconditioned office which are my only 2 concerns I think I've weighed it up enough to choose that I will hopefully not fall victim to it.

Am I fully certain of the choice I'm making...not really, theres always that "what if" in the back of my mind that I may get really unlucky and catch it but weighing up your own personal situation might help people individually make that choice on whether there is a great chance of catching swine flu in the first place.


----------



## EternalRose

I have been quite a keen follower of david icke for some time now, and as much as some of his concepts are considered to be out there, I believe his research on the swine flu debate holds a lot of water, especially as he is not the only one making the claims that he has, there are several others. I remember a poster on this forum mentioned another and she was shot down! We are all skeptical, but I agree with izzies_mom and kermie, do your own research be informed but dont put down other peoples findings unless you have thoroughly researched that particular finding, and looked at the evidence base. I think if one was to do a thread, on the findings David Icke has found about the swine flu vaccine a lot of people may find themselves surprised. However, my personal opinion is that this " swine flu " outbreak that was supposedly found on a mexican farm is completely untrue and that these vaccinations are being used as a bioweapon. Some people may laugh at my previous statement, but thats my opinion and ive done my research to come to that conclusion.


----------



## AimeeM

EternalRose said:


> I have been quite a keen follower of david icke for some time now, and as much as some of his concepts are considered to be out there, I believe his research on the swine flu debate holds a lot of water, especially as he is not the only one making the claims that he has, there are several others. I remember a poster on this forum mentioned another and she was shot down! We are all skeptical, but I agree with izzies_mom and kermie, do your own research be informed but dont put down other peoples findings unless you have thoroughly researched that particular finding, and looked at the evidence base. I think if one was to do a thread, on the findings David Icke has found about the swine flu vaccine a lot of people may find themselves surprised. However, my personal opinion is that this " swine flu " outbreak that was supposedly found on a mexican farm is completely untrue and that these vaccinations are being used as a bioweapon. Some people may laugh at my previous statement, but thats my opinion and ive done my research to come to that conclusion.

I agree with you. MY opinion! But then again, i am a little 'out there' too!


----------



## EternalRose

I want to add though, numerous doctors have filed complaints about this vaccination and I watched a youtube documentary today saying that the insert in the vaccine actually says its not safe for pregnant woman & I am not making this up:wacko:


----------



## AimeeM

Would you mind sending me the link for the info chick? xx


----------



## Carmela

I would like to see the link too, please. If possible.


----------



## EternalRose

Pm sent :thumbup:


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

My question is, and please don't shoot me down, but if you don't take the vaccine (which is ur own choice, I'm not a pro vaccine), are you going to refuse anti virals, antibiotics, and any other meds that they may have to use to save you, SHOULD you catch swine flu? My friend is an ICU nurse and the things they have to pump into someone who suffers from this virus I'm guessing aren't really on the top ten list of things for use in pregnancy either ! Its a catch 22! 
I'm not looking to rile people up, I think we should all be sticking together on this one no matter of our choices, but it would be interesting to know, from those who are anti...


----------



## EternalRose

EmmaDueInFeb said:


> My question is, and please don't shoot me down, but if you don't take the vaccine (which is ur own choice, I'm not a pro vaccine), are you going to refuse anti virals, antibiotics, and any other meds that they may have to use to save you, SHOULD you catch swine flu? My friend is an ICU nurse and the things they have to pump into someone who suffers from this virus I'm guessing aren't really on the top ten list of things for use in pregnancy either ! Its a catch 22!
> I'm not looking to rile people up, I think we should all be sticking together on this one no matter of our choices, but it would be interesting to know, from those who are anti...

I wouldnt shoot anyone down on this thread hun, we are all worried and trying our best to do whats right for us and our babies. I never said, I was anti- vaccines altogether, Im just very sceptical about this one. However, that opinion may now change as I have been reading some interesting research by a canadian doctor that shows vaccines are causing the incidence of autism to sky rocket. Anyhow I digress as always, If i was to get ill with swine flu I wouldnt just let myself die of course and if antibiotics were given to me I would take them but the antibiotics are not the cause for concern here. A lot of people have claimed to recover from swine flu without any need for medication, and have just had the usual chicken soup and bed rest. Not all, but I think the media and govt are succeeding in frightening people. Its as if they are saying if you get swine flu you are definately going to be fighting for your life in ITU. Also, the swine flu vaccination doesnt mean you wont get swine flu, and *some *may even say your more likely to have a weakened immune system after having it.


----------



## EternalRose

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1226704/GPs-bigger-bonuses-meet-swine-flu-jab-targets.html

I dont know about anyone else, but this just angers me! Why are GP's getting incentives to cash in, at a time like this :nope:


----------



## mumofboys

Mmmm - some interesting points. Just a few more points to add to the mix:

- relenza (though licensed for pregnant women) has not been tested on pregnant women....so if you get SF (suspected) you will be under pressure to make a decision as to whether or not to take relenza, even though it falls into the same category of hypothetical risk as the SF jab

- the pandemic is not escalating as fast as was originally feared but the proportional numbers of people needing hospital treatment is causing alarm (i.e. the cases we do have are more serious than anticipated)

- while pregnant women are not dying in mass numbers, a fairly high number of women (60 at any one time, according to current figures) are in hospital requiring treatment

- while seasonal flu (currently) kills more people, the demographic of who it kills is vastly different to the demographic that SF is targeting (i.e. children under the age of 5 and pregnant women.....both seasonal flu and swine flu impact people with suppressed immune systems)

- the government is not rolling out the swine flu vaccine to under 5's

Now, we can all do the maths - the chances of us dying or ending up in hospital are still pretty low, so we could probably take the chance and be fine. However, with the way things stand, and the fact that people are not dropping like flies, do you really think that the government and the drug companies are going to risk a HUGE scandal of pushing an unsafe drug to pregnant women and small children....? If it turns out the drug is not safe, just take a minute to think of the impact this would have on the entire world.....some of our politician are a it annoying and drug companies like to make money, but I just don't believe that they would be such numpties as to take such a risk!!!

So in summary, I think that the vaccine is probably safe.....though I also think that if you don't take it, you will probably be ok too.

Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.

Good luck to all of you with your choices and please try to stay calm, despite the fact that this is a trying time!!!!


----------



## mumofboys

Meant to say the the government IS rolling out the vaccine to under 5s!!!


----------



## AimeeM

EternalRose said:


> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1226704/GPs-bigger-bonuses-meet-swine-flu-jab-targets.html
> 
> I dont know about anyone else, but this just angers me! Why are GP's getting incentives to cash in, at a time like this :nope:


:shrug:


----------



## EternalRose

mumofboys said:


> Mmmm - some interesting points. Just a few more points to add to the mix:
> 
> - relenza (though licensed for pregnant women) has not been tested on pregnant women....so if you get SF (suspected) you will be under pressure to make a decision as to whether or not to take relenza, even though it falls into the same category of hypothetical risk as the SF jab
> 
> - the pandemic is not escalating as fast as was originally feared but the proportional numbers of people needing hospital treatment is causing alarm (i.e. the cases we do have are more serious than anticipated)
> 
> - while pregnant women are not dying in mass numbers, a fairly high number of women (60 at any one time, according to current figures) are in hospital requiring treatment
> 
> - while seasonal flu (currently) kills more people, the demographic of who it kills is vastly different to the demographic that SF is targeting (i.e. children under the age of 5 and pregnant women.....both seasonal flu and swine flu impact people with suppressed immune systems)
> 
> - the government is not rolling out the swine flu vaccine to under 5's
> 
> Now, we can all do the maths - the chances of us dying or ending up in hospital are still pretty low, so we could probably take the chance and be fine. However, with the way things stand, and the fact that people are not dropping like flies, do you really think that the government and the drug companies are going to risk a HUGE scandal of pushing an unsafe drug to pregnant women and small children....? If it turns out the drug is not safe, just take a minute to think of the impact this would have on the entire world.....some of our politician are a it annoying and drug companies like to make money, but I just don't believe that they would be such numpties as to take such a risk!!!
> 
> So in summary, I think that the vaccine is probably safe.....though I also think that if you don't take it, you will probably be ok too.
> 
> Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.
> 
> Good luck to all of you with your choices and please try to stay calm, despite the fact that this is a trying time!!!!

Interesting points hun, I thought the drug companies cant be sued if anything was to go wrong i.e side effects, miscarriages e.t.c or maybe Im wrong..:wacko:


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

mumofboys said:


> Mmmm - some interesting points. Just a few more points to add to the mix:
> 
> - relenza (though licensed for pregnant women) has not been tested on pregnant women....so if you get SF (suspected) you will be under pressure to make a decision as to whether or not to take relenza, even though it falls into the same category of hypothetical risk as the SF jab
> 
> - the pandemic is not escalating as fast as was originally feared but the proportional numbers of people needing hospital treatment is causing alarm (i.e. the cases we do have are more serious than anticipated)
> 
> - while pregnant women are not dying in mass numbers, a fairly high number of women (60 at any one time, according to current figures) are in hospital requiring treatment
> 
> - while seasonal flu (currently) kills more people, the demographic of who it kills is vastly different to the demographic that SF is targeting (i.e. children under the age of 5 and pregnant women.....both seasonal flu and swine flu impact people with suppressed immune systems)
> 
> - the government is not rolling out the swine flu vaccine to under 5's
> 
> Now, we can all do the maths - the chances of us dying or ending up in hospital are still pretty low, so we could probably take the chance and be fine. However, with the way things stand, and the fact that people are not dropping like flies, do you really think that the government and the drug companies are going to risk a HUGE scandal of pushing an unsafe drug to pregnant women and small children....? If it turns out the drug is not safe, just take a minute to think of the impact this would have on the entire world.....some of our politician are a it annoying and drug companies like to make money, but I just don't believe that they would be such numpties as to take such a risk!!!
> 
> So in summary, I think that the vaccine is probably safe.....though I also think that if you don't take it, you will probably be ok too.
> 
> Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.
> 
> Good luck to all of you with your choices and please try to stay calm, despite the fact that this is a trying time!!!!

Hi, I heard on the radio on the way home today that they are extending the vaccine to under 5's......this may be rubbish, but thought I'd add !! :)

Agree with you on all above, my thought was that you hear about how the pregnant women who end up very ill (not necessarily in ICU) are the ones who waited over 3 days to get anti virals, so I would like to think women would be straight on the phone should they have symptoms, but this brings that debate to the forefront !! you can't win. I vote for men to have the babies!!!!

My doctor said that if I caught it now, I'd most probably be fine (26 weeks) but if I caught it at 36 weeks, its likely to be a very different story, and who wants to be ill in late pregnancy !!


----------



## tonique

Hello there, just wanted to give some factual figures from France, I dont know whether flu is spreading as fast as expected or less but it is worrying me a bit:

More than 1 million and a half people have already been infected, and today 150 schools are closed. The number of people deceased has doubled last week, as well as vaccination- no good information on details of groups of people. 
Out of the 200 000 people vaccinated with Pandemrix in France so far, one pregnant woman in her 38th week had very bad news 2 days later as she developped flu- I know positive info is preferred but I thought facts could also help make our minds up.
All this info is on the official french website-in case you want to check it, they publish a report on side effects of vaccins and antivirals every week, there is only a french version- the government agency is called afssaps and the report is on the first page: Surveillance des effets indésirables des antiviraux et des vaccins

A pick for swine flu is expected end of November, whilst the pick for seasonal flu is usually December-January. 
It is a very hard decision to make...good luck to us all


----------



## Carmela

mumofboys said:


> ...
> Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.
> ...

What scares me a lot is - while thinking that we are protected, are we really? 
I read and heard that "Safety and effectiveness of the H1N1 vaccine have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers or children less than 4 years of age." To me this doesn't guarantee protection. In fact, nothing that I've already read about the SF vaccine guarantees protection.


----------



## mumofboys

Just because a drug company can't be sued doesn't mean that it wouldn't be absolutely RUINED if it came to light that a vaccine they had created damaged hundreds of thousands of people - who would ever trust them again.....even if the drug company managed to pass the buck and place the blame on the WHO or the government, the mud would still stick......it would be an almighty mess and a risk that I don't think the government of the drug companies would risk it. There is no precedent for such a scandal in recent history (and thalidomide doesn't count as the government weren't pushing the drug...it was a "nice to have" to combat morning sickness)

As for all the David Icke stuff - well if the government wasn't to kill us all off then they will get us all in the end and the jab is the least of our worries!!!


----------



## EmmaDueInFeb

mumofboys said:


> Just because a drug company can't be sued doesn't mean that it wouldn't be absolutely RUINED if it came to light that a vaccine they had created damaged hundreds of thousands of people - who would ever trust them again.....even if the drug company managed to pass the buck and place the blame on the WHO or the government, the mud would still stick......it would be an almighty mess and a risk that I don't think the government of the drug companies would risk it. There is no precedent for such a scandal in recent history (and thalidomide doesn't count as the government weren't pushing the drug...it was a "nice to have" to combat morning sickness)
> 
> As for all the David Icke stuff - well if the government wasn't to kill us all off then they will get us all in the end and the jab is the least of our worries!!!

And I'm sure they'd be a bit more sneaky about it, like contaminating Greggs sausgage rolls :) yum !


----------



## EternalRose

What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me :wacko:


----------



## JessiHD

EternalRose said:


> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1226704/GPs-bigger-bonuses-meet-swine-flu-jab-targets.html
> 
> I dont know about anyone else, but this just angers me! Why are GP's getting incentives to cash in, at a time like this :nope:

I think it's less about GPs cashing in and more about the DoH using the carrot/stick to persuade GPs to promote the vaccines when they are not really comfortable about it. From what I gather from the BMJ, doctors themselves are pretty pissed off about it. This is a clear conflict of interest when GPs are being asked by patients whether they should take the vaccine or not, which needs to be clearly stated when obtaining consent from patients.


----------



## AimeeM

Luella123 said:


> I agree with Mervs Mum. On the whole this thread has been really helpful with people providing factual information based on research they have done via sources like doctors, midwives, consultants etc. All which can help us come to a decision at this difficult time. There are conspiracy theories about so many things but on this subject it is too close to home and we are talking about the health of our babies here!

Yes we are and i am sure this is why eternal rose is looking into all these 'conspiracy theories' here, to be as informed as possible as to make the best decision for herself and the health of her baby. Theories or not i think we need to look at all angles.


----------



## EternalRose

Luella123 said:


> I agree with Mervs Mum. On the whole this thread has been really helpful with people providing factual information based on research they have done via sources like doctors, midwives, consultants etc. All which can help us come to a decision at this difficult time. There are conspiracy theories about so many things but on this subject it is too close to home and we are talking about the health of our babies here!

So the fact that baxter international filed for a patent for the swine flu vaccination over a year before the mexican outbreak is conspiracy and not factual? I am also thinking about the health of by baby too, and to be honest I think its very unfair that because a few of us may have looked at this swine flu topic from a different perspective, we are getting shot down or told its rubbish. Its like there is only one view on this thread, and if you dont like it shut up.


----------



## Luella123

Each to their own. I would prefer not to base such an important decision on the rantings if David Iyke and conspiracy theories. It is all confusing enough as it is. I guess we each decide which sources we trust.


----------



## Mervs Mum

EternalRose said:


> Mervs Mum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EternalRose said:
> 
> 
> Oh I know what you meant when you used the term crack pot, *I still thought my reply about not smoking crack was quite fitting*. Anyway, nothing else left to say now is there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mervs Mum said:
> 
> 
> Enlighten me then please?Click to expand...
> 
> I really cant be bothered :thumbup:Click to expand...

You need to be because your implication offends me in much the way my apparent comparison of you and my OHs friend offends you.


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## saffy1978

EternalRose said:


> What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me :wacko:

WTF? I didn't know that! How did they know an outbreak was gonna happen? x


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## EternalRose

saffy1978 said:


> EternalRose said:
> 
> 
> What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me :wacko:
> 
> WTF? I didn't know that! How did they know an outbreak was gonna happen? xClick to expand...

Exactly, my point!! How can you plan for an outbreak on a mexican farm? :wacko:


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## Mervs Mum

saffy1978 said:


> EternalRose said:
> 
> 
> What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me :wacko:
> 
> WTF? I didn't know that! How did they know an outbreak was gonna happen? xClick to expand...

The way these companies work is that they take a strain of flu and try to predict how it will mutate. They make lots of different variations (dozens) and then patent then all, hoping their company will get lucky and have the one that fits that particular strain. It's how they have the seasonal flu jab ready BEFORE the season really starts. :)


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## saffy1978

So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?


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## Mervs Mum

I suppose you could look at it for a negative point of view and see it that way but ultimately they only make the money if they get it right and save vulnerable people from suffering :shrug: All the other money spent on the other variations that dont get used, is gone. 

I guess you can look at it from either angle. They are big business but would you say that about them coming up with new cancer drugs?


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## kermie219

saffy1978 said:


> So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?

They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!


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## EternalRose

kermie219 said:


> saffy1978 said:
> 
> 
> So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?
> 
> They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!Click to expand...

Kermie, have you ever watched the programme " sicko ", omg I was so shocked!! xx


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## kermie219

EternalRose said:


> kermie219 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saffy1978 said:
> 
> 
> So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?
> 
> They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!Click to expand...
> 
> Kermie, have you ever watched the programme " sicko ", omg I was so shocked!! xxClick to expand...

never seen it! But to be honest nothing a government does would surprise me! not ever! If that's what it's about!


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## EternalRose

kermie219 said:


> EternalRose said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kermie219 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saffy1978 said:
> 
> 
> So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?
> 
> They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!Click to expand...
> 
> Kermie, have you ever watched the programme " sicko ", omg I was so shocked!! xxClick to expand...
> 
> never seen it! But to be honest nothing a government does would surprise me! not ever! If that's what it's about!Click to expand...

It was looking at the healthcare system in the states, and how the big CEO were cashing in from health insurance policies that had a list of medical complaints from here to australia that patients couldnt claim for, and they showed CCTV footage of patients being dumped in the street by ambulances if they couldnt afford health care, it was an eye opener.


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## Luella123

I appear to be going against the grain here but personally I am grateful that these companies are producing seasonal flu vaccines every year that save thousands of lives. Of course they make money from it, they are businesses after all. Maybe if over the decades there had been major side effects from these vaccines I would think differently. I think sometimes we forget how serious flu can be, not being patronising, I didn't realise until recently just how deadly the past flu pandemics were and I welcome any advances in medicine that can prevent that from happening again. However, for those who are anti- vaccines I respect your views, just trying to provide some balance and a different angle.


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## EternalRose

Luella123 said:


> I appear to be going against the grain here but personally I am grateful that these companies are producing seasonal flu vaccines every year that save thousands of lives. Of course they make money from it, they are businesses after all. Maybe if over the decades there had been major side effects from these vaccines I would think differently. I think sometimes we forget how serious flu can be, not being patronising, I didn't realise until recently just how deadly the past flu pandemics were and I welcome any advances in medicine that can prevent that from happening again. However, for those who are anti- vaccines I respect your views, just trying to provide some balance and a different angle.

I agree with your comments hun, I never said I was anti - vaccines though. I am sceptical about this one though but im worried like everyone else. I was just offering a few different standpoints it is a public forum after all.


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## Mervs Mum

You're not going against the grain Luella. If you read further back in the thread, it's been pretty balanced for and against :) I'm pro vaccination but wont be having this one for my own reasons. I've weighed things up and it's not worth it to be for various reasons. I took my 1 yr old to have her 12 month vax last week and my 15 yr old DD just had the HPV jab this week. I think you can see both sides if you're open minded and you sound pretty sensible :) It's business but they save lives.


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## Mervs Mum

2bananas :hugs:


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## StirCrazy

Thread re-opened.

Lets keep it civil :)


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## Bee26

Personally Im not having the jab...My reason is that lots of people die from the normal flu every year, we just dont hear about them much. There was expected to be 750,000 deaths from swine flu this winter...and we are nowhere near heading for that amount and apparantly its slowing. I know when it gets colder things may change but i dont think its the pandemic everyone was expecting. I work with people and prob am at higher risk but i just dont feel I want to put something in my body that im not fully aware of the implications in the future for my child. Will we have the opportunity to have it further down the line should we chage our minds does anyone know?? If the pandemic does happen?


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## CocoaOne

Luella123 said:


> I appear to be going against the grain here but personally I am grateful that these companies are producing seasonal flu vaccines every year that save thousands of lives. Of course they make money from it, they are businesses after all......and I welcome any advances in medicine that can prevent that from happening again. However, for those who are anti- vaccines I respect your views, just trying to provide some balance and a different angle.

Good point Luella. What worries me about these companies are how they can hold the government to ransom. With certain drugs they produce it can be like a licence to print money. Take the Liver Cancer drug for example..... it costs £3000 a week per patient, so NICE have said it's to expensive to approve on the NHS. I agree with this decision (don't want to start a row over this though!) but when drug companies make profits into the billions, how can they jusify charging such an insane amount? It's because they've got a patent on a drug and they know noone else can make it. 

Not really related to swine flu vacs, but the drug companies make me mad!


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## CocoaOne

Bee26 said:


> Will we have the opportunity to have it further down the line should we chage our minds does anyone know?? If the pandemic does happen?


I worry about this. Theoretically the government have got enough to vaccinate everyone - so why have they said we should get it sooner rather than later in case stocks run out?
personally, I'd like to wait a bit longer to see how the virus spreads in the colder months, but what if it gets to January and they stop the vaccinations? So many questions!


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## Luella123

It does appear surgeries are getting deliveries in batches and all at different times. Some haven't even recieved any yet. I think they have ordered enough for everyone but the issue is when the deliveries are. I see under 5's are next in line but they are saying it will be the end of Dec before they are called. So if people do change their minds there may be a delay in getting the vaccine? I agree it would be good if the government would clarify this!


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## JessiHD

Mervs Mum said:


> You're not going against the grain Luella. If you read further back in the thread, it's been pretty balanced for and against :) I'm pro vaccination but wont be having this one for my own reasons. I've weighed things up and it's not worth it to be for various reasons. I took my 1 yr old to have her 12 month vax last week and my 15 yr old DD just had the HPV jab this week. I think you can see both sides if you're open minded and you sound pretty sensible :) It's business but they save lives.

We are singing from the same hymn sheet!


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## AimeeM

I would think that the shortage originally was caused by the short time scale they had to mass produce the jab before a pandemic took hold which leads to priority groups given it first.
Time is moving on, more time to produce more jabs so the problem of there 'not being enough' should be solved.
Just because some people want to turn it down now should not mean they can not request it is the future as i'd have thought more supplies will be being produced, enough to cover everyone and more.


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## gem_

It does seem positive that the number of new swine flu cases are falling and I don't think anyone should feel pressured into having the jab now incase supplies run out. Just because you refuse it now doesn't mean you can't change your mind later if the number of cases start rising again. You would think they would have enough vaccines if they are extending the vaccine programme to under fives. My only concern about doing that is that it does take a few weeks after having the vaccine (Pandemrix) for full immunity to be reached and longer for Celvapan (around 6 weeks) as you have to have 2 doses of that one. I think everyone just has to weigh up how likely they are to catch swine flu. As I work in a pharmacy with ill people coughing and sneezing coming in every day I think for me having the Pandemrix jab now was the right decision. I may have felt differently though if I didn't think I was likely to come into contact with the virus and I didn't have a 2 year old to think about at home.

Some people have asked how can Baxter apply for a patent for their swine flu jab Celvapan a year before swine flu was even an issue. Experts have been predicting a flu pandemic for a while now so I read somewhere that they developed a jab with an existing strain of flu and applied for a patent on that. Then when a new flu strain emerged they wanted a vaccine for, in this case swine flu, they substituted the old strain of flu for the swine flu strain. The rest of the vaccine make-up is the same. They then ran clinical trials on the new swine flu jab. No doubt they will make a lot of money from their vaccine, but on the other hand they must have spent a lot of money on developing a vaccine a while ago for a flu pandemic that may never have come. Also I read the yield of Celvapan has been quite poor, so they must be quite disappointed with that!

I agree with other comments that one of the reasons (as well as looking after people's health) the government is pushing the vaccination programme is money but nothing more sinister than that. People hospitalised with swine flu will cost them a lot of money as will high amounts of people unable to attend work because they are ill.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I had the Pandemrix jab on Tuesday. A few hours later I developed a heavy, sore arm and a slight temperature that eased with paracetamol. The next morning I was sick and I felt pretty rotten all day, but nothing too troublesome at all. Symptoms were like a mild cold. The next day I felt absolutely fine again!

Good luck all with your decisions x


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## callmepoppy

I have heard a few people say on here that they will be waiting on the celvapan jab as they believe this is safer (in the uk). But i think its important to realise there are risks with this too (as well as the pandemrix, which is the one i had). Celvapan is the only vaccine OF ITS KIND to be licensed by the European Medical Associaton (ie the very first non adjuvanted vaccine produced using vero cell technology). Vero cell technology uses the african green monkey to culture the vaccine as opposed to hen eggs. African green monkeys are well known for producing vaccine contaminating virus's (for example HIV).

Baxter (celvapan producers) do not have a great track record when it comes to vaccines. Anyone who has done there research (and its not difficult to find) will have found that Baxter have 'botched up' vaccines in the past leading to live virus's being used in vaccines and in some cases people contractng HIV (as mentioned before via vero cell technology)! The HIV contaminated vaccines were actually still distributed even after the contamination was discovered. can you trust this company? Its very hard to find the faith. I am not sayng this vaccine IS unsafe but that it isnt guaranteed to be safe as people may be thinkng (this may be why people are holdng off for the celvapan). Vero cell technology is relatively new which is why personally i dont think celvapan is the holy grail here. People shouldnt hold out for a vaccine which has its own risks too - if that makes sense.

I am not saying this to scare anyone but think that given people know the risks of pandemrix its only fair to even the keel and give some info on the risks of the celvapan.

My point is there are risks with both vaccines and with not vaccinating at all. People should weigh up these risks and make an informed choice and not listen to accusations and speculation about the government wanting to save money etc.... The risks of not vaccinating or waiting for the celvepan outweighed those of the pandemrix so i got this one - but thats just me! Swine flu is already showing resistance to tamiflu which is a scary thought. This decision is too important. Its about your health and your babies and thats it. x

Not the most reliable source but first one I came across:
https://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html


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## gem_

callmepoppy said:


> I have heard a few people say on here that they will be waiting on the celvapan jab as they believe this is safer (in the uk). But i think its important to realise there are risks with this too (as well as the pandemrix, which is the one i had). Celvapan is the only vaccine OF ITS KIND to be licensed by the European Medical Associaton (ie the very first non adjuvanted vaccine produced using vero cell technology). Vero cell technology uses the african green monkey to culture the vaccine as opposed to hen eggs. African green monkeys are well known for producing vaccine contaminating virus's (for example HIV).
> 
> Baxter (celvapan producers) do not have a great track record when it comes to vaccines. Anyone who has done there research (and its not difficult to find) will have found that Baxter have 'botched up' vaccines in the past leading to live virus's being used in vaccines and in some cases people contractng HIV (as mentioned before via vero cell technology)! The HIV contaminated vaccines were actually still distributed even after the contamination was discovered. can you trust this company? Its very hard to find the faith. I am not sayng this vaccine IS unsafe but that it isnt guaranteed to be safe as people may be thinkng (this may be why people are holdng off for the celvapan). Vero cell technology is relatively new which is why personally i dont think celvapan is the holy grail here. People shouldnt hold out for a vaccine which has its own risks too - if that makes sense.
> 
> I am not saying this to scare anyone but think that given people know the risks of pandemrix its only fair to even the keel and give some info on the risks of the celvapan.
> 
> My point is there are risks with both vaccines and with not vaccinating at all. People should weigh up these risks and make an informed choice and not listen to accusations and speculation about the government wanting to save money etc.... The risks of not vaccinating or waiting for the celvepan outweighed those of the pandemrix so i got this one - but thats just me! Swine flu is already showing resistance to tamiflu which is a scary thought. This decision is too important. Its about your health and your babies and thats it. x
> 
> Not the most reliable source but first one I came across:
> https://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html

I just wanted to add to Callmepoppy's post that there is also another advantage to having an adjuvanted vaccine such as Pandemrix over an unadjuvanted vaccine such as Celvapan. Experts believe that the use of an adjuvant is more likely to protect you from similar mutated strains of the swine flu virus as well. Up to now this hasn't really been a concern but yesterday it was announced that the first mutated strain of swine flu that is resistant to Tamiflu had been passed from person to person in the whole world. And where was this? - Cardiff! Guess where I live :-(. They are hoping to contain this strain within the hospital but as we all know there are no guarantees!


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## AimeeM

gem_ said:


> callmepoppy said:
> 
> 
> I have heard a few people say on here that they will be waiting on the celvapan jab as they believe this is safer (in the uk). But i think its important to realise there are risks with this too (as well as the pandemrix, which is the one i had). Celvapan is the only vaccine OF ITS KIND to be licensed by the European Medical Associaton (ie the very first non adjuvanted vaccine produced using vero cell technology). Vero cell technology uses the african green monkey to culture the vaccine as opposed to hen eggs. African green monkeys are well known for producing vaccine contaminating virus's (for example HIV).
> 
> Baxter (celvapan producers) do not have a great track record when it comes to vaccines. Anyone who has done there research (and its not difficult to find) will have found that Baxter have 'botched up' vaccines in the past leading to live virus's being used in vaccines and in some cases people contractng HIV (as mentioned before via vero cell technology)! The HIV contaminated vaccines were actually still distributed even after the contamination was discovered. can you trust this company? Its very hard to find the faith. I am not sayng this vaccine IS unsafe but that it isnt guaranteed to be safe as people may be thinkng (this may be why people are holdng off for the celvapan). Vero cell technology is relatively new which is why personally i dont think celvapan is the holy grail here. People shouldnt hold out for a vaccine which has its own risks too - if that makes sense.
> 
> I am not saying this to scare anyone but think that given people know the risks of pandemrix its only fair to even the keel and give some info on the risks of the celvapan.
> 
> My point is there are risks with both vaccines and with not vaccinating at all. People should weigh up these risks and make an informed choice and not listen to accusations and speculation about the government wanting to save money etc.... The risks of not vaccinating or waiting for the celvepan outweighed those of the pandemrix so i got this one - but thats just me! Swine flu is already showing resistance to tamiflu which is a scary thought. This decision is too important. Its about your health and your babies and thats it. x
> 
> Not the most reliable source but first one I came across:
> https://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html
> 
> I just wanted to add to Callmepoppy's post that there is also another advantage to having an adjuvanted vaccine such as Pandemrix over an unadjuvanted vaccine such as Celvapan. Experts believe that the use of an adjuvant is more likely to protect you from similar mutated strains of the swine flu virus as well. Up to now this hasn't really been a concern but yesterday it was announced that the first mutated strain of swine flu that is resistant to Tamiflu had been passed from person to person in the whole world. And where was this? - Cardiff! Guess where I live :-(. They are hoping to contain this strain within the hospital but as we all know there are no guarantees!Click to expand...

I saw this on the 10 o'clock news they said, it had been kept it enclosed to a hospital ward? And that they all had serious underlying conditions.


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## AimeeM

Yeah i just had another look, it basically says that as people who have weaker immune systems than others eg hiv patients, the virus is more likely to be resistant to tamiflu and still show up on test but i suppose this is understandable as they don't have tamiflu and a normal immune system to fight it off, just the tamiflu if you understand wheat i mean?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8370859.stm


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## gem_

For those of you that want Celvapan found this link on another website from the Department of Health. Page 3 basically says that they recommend pregnant women receive Pandemrix but, as to be vaccinated is better than no vaccination at all any pregnant women who are only happy to receive Celvapan should not be refused it.

https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_d.../@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_108855.pdf


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## JessiHD

gem_ said:


> For those of you that want Celvapan found this link on another website from the Department of Health. Page 3 basically says that they recommend pregnant women receive Pandemrix but, as to be vaccinated is better than no vaccination at all any pregnant women who are only happy to receive Celvapan should not be refused it.
> 
> https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_d.../@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_108855.pdf

Although the jury is still out on whether the vaccine is going to work at all which is a bit annoying.

https://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7574/912

Imagine going through all the stress of whether to take the vaccine or not, finally having it done and then three months later catching it! I must admit I have my doubts about Celvapan too. I wonder why they can't just make it identical to seasonal flu vaccine?


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## icklelaura

I have just been an had the Cevlapan injection. I wasnt planning on having the seasonal flu jab or the swine flu after having a bad rection 9yrs ago to the seasonal flu jab. But after recently having an asthma attack (for which i was admitted to hospital) and the fact that since i found out i was pregnant i havent been well my doctors did a lot of research and referred me to a specialist and my asthma nurse looked into it all for me and they all advised that i went and had it. So i have done so and went for the slow acting but apparently more effective one!! (not so many chemicals in it as the other one has apparently!?)

This is also my 1st baby so not really sure what i should expect from it all xx:wacko:


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## 24/7

I'm not pregnant, but have had the swine flu vaccine, and had the pandemrix one. I had a sore arm for a couple of days and the aches of a cold the next morning, but apart from that was fine. I was very worried about having it, but decided to have it in the end.


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## vac_uk

im still undecided, im in 2nd tri now and thinking if i do get the jab to get it in the nxt couple of weeks...but sooo undecided!!!


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## Luuluu

I've forgotton all about it for the time being. I have my fingers crossed it'll be OK. All of my friends who are having babies are still not going to have it and I am almost 27 weeks and in my last tri so hoping I can hang on!
x


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## lynnikins

i had my jab in November the Pandemrix one and my pregnancy has continued fine, im happy i did caus since then DH has had suspected swine flu as have several people im in regular contact with and i would hate for something to have happend if i had caught swine flu.


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## samface182

im gettin mine done on saturday!


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## JessiHD

In the third tri now and haven't had it done. Don't regret it for a moment. 
Swine flu is soooooo 2009 darling!


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## Luuluu

JessiHD said:


> In the third tri now and haven't had it done. Don't regret it for a moment.
> Swine flu is soooooo 2009 darling!

That's so funny!!! :rofl:
x


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## Xanthe

In the news today...............

https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news...scare-swine-flu-claims-Euro-health-chief.html


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## Blue_bumpkin

Xanthe said:


> In the news today...............
> 
> https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news...scare-swine-flu-claims-Euro-health-chief.html

 A pandemic is in simple terms a global epidemic... which swine flu was.

I do agree that the number of cases does appear to be tailing off which is good news but dont think the threat was exaggerated deliberately in order to make money. This is just the press trying to make money from something that as JessiHD put it is so 2009!

Glad it seems to be coming to an end! I also think that better hygiene has played a major part in reducing the number of new cases, probably more so than the vaccine (which i myself had at 28 weeks). Although I do still think getting vaccinated is the way to go for those who are vulnerable.


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## rachm

I received a letter about 6 wks ago asking to go for the jab at my doctors. After reading up on it and weighing the pros and cons I decided NOT to have it. I know its everyones personal choice and myself and my baby may be fine from having it but I didn't want to take the chance that it does affect my baby in some way and find out 5 years down the line like other things over the years that they said was safe then said wasn't.

I know pregnant women have died from swine flu but you can die from normal flu. There are not any guarantees.

I am just careful if I go out somewhere that there are lots of people. Looking at the news now I don't think swine flu has turned into the major epidemic they predicted it would and I don't regret not having it for a second.


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## JessiHD

The media and drugs company were equally responsible for the scare, in my opinion. I just hope that the European governments manage to get out some of the contracts as I think it's unfair that the taxpayers will have to bear the brunt of the pharma companies profiteering, especially in the current economic climate. The money could have been spent far more usefully if the Government hadn't lost its head and panic bought stockpiles of useless vaccines!


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## Blue_bumpkin

The vaccines aren't useless... thats a bit harsh. They could have potentially saved lives. With the winter being as harsh as it has been it wouldnt have been a good time to contract normal flu let alone a new strain.

I think vaccinating children was a good idea also as they are not as aware about hygiene and things like this will spread like wild fire among classrooms.

My neice is due hers next week... poor wee soul will have a heck of a sore arm though!


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## JessiHD

Flu vaccines are generally pretty inaffective compared to other vaccinations, seasonal flu vaccines work only about 2/3 of the time. The seasonal flu vaccine is pretty hotly debated in the medical communiity as many it is a waste of money due to the lack of effectiveness. No-one even knows if either of the vaccines prevented anyone getting swine flu yet as it is believed that the reason that less people were infected than expected because people have immunity from a previous strain and many people who were infected were asymptomatic, including children.


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## Blue_bumpkin

I disagree but then everyone is entitled to their opinion :shrug:


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## littleleo

Do they do the swine flue jabs for babies over 6 months old?


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## Lucy

Littleleo - yes they are vaccinating infants from 6months -5 years of age. I was contacted by my local GP surgery for appointments for my two children.


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## Luuluu

Having heard NOTHING ever from the docs about the jab, I am now 30 weeks and they left me a message on my mobile late yesterday offering me the jab today from 3pm!! I didn't get back to them in time and have heard from word-of-mouth that the government ordered too much so they're just trying to get rid of it now??....
I am so nearly at the end of my pregnancy, don't really see the point now...


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## Caezzybe

I don't entirely trust it because of the short time line in which it was put together and tested, I worry about the consequences of what it might potentially do. I'd rather take my risks with treating it with Tamiflu if it does happen (which I'm hoping it doesn't). I have to admit I run the other way in supermarkets if children start coughing without covering their mouths as I know I can't even take decongestants right now and that my immune system is lowered because of pregnancy. That means that even a common cold would be twice as miserable as usual.


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## berniebump

Hello Everyone

I had the first shot of the Celvapan vaccine three weeks ago. It has now turned my life upside down. I am often dizzy, with a weak right arm and right leg. I have had tingling and twitching in my legs and face and I am now constantly tired. I am due to visit a neurologist soon and will be investigated for peripheral neuropathy and MS. Every doctor I have seen over the past three weeks has told me that they have not had any swine flu vaccine and would not recommend it to any family members. I understand that pregnant ladies have concerns about weaker immune systems but I think you must make your decision with the knowledge of what has happened to me.


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## StarLightxx

I wont be having a swine flu jab - I havent heard of any more cases of swine flu going round and would rather not risk it!


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## Luuluu

berniebump said:


> Hello Everyone
> 
> I had the first shot of the Celvapan vaccine three weeks ago. It has now turned my life upside down. I am often dizzy, with a weak right arm and right leg. I have had tingling and twitching in my legs and face and I am now constantly tired. I am due to visit a neurologist soon and will be investigated for peripheral neuropathy and MS. Every doctor I have seen over the past three weeks has told me that they have not had any swine flu vaccine and would not recommend it to any family members. I understand that pregnant ladies have concerns about weaker immune systems but I think you must make your decision with the knowledge of what has happened to me.

Oh no hun, you poor poor thing :-( this is terrible. Thank you for posting your experience on here. I hope you're OK and that you make a speedy recovery. Good luck xxxxx


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## MissyMojo

hey girls, 

im in such a cufuddle - im about to move to cyprus - a country hardly affected by swine flu- so much so they stopped compiling records on cofirmed cases in aug 2009! - my gp is pushing me to have the jab before i leave - but i wont even be 12 weeks - do i do what he adivses - or should i wait til i get to cyprus and speak to mw / drs there??


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