# Can I just ask?



## NG09

Without starting ANOTHER debate as that is really not my intention..... 

I was reading through another thread and just wondered why people who choose to BF their babies should be congratulated?? It's honestly not a dig, I am just genuinely interested. I know it is time consuming and can be tricky to get the hang of but so can FF, for instance it has taken me 3 months, several trips to the docs, lots of formula changes to try and find something that agrees with my LO and TBH I'm still not sure we're there yet! 
:shrug:


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## Mum2b_Claire

I think because it IS best for *babies* and anyone who works hard to make sure their baby gets breastmilk deserves all the congratulations they get.


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## sjminimac

i'm breast feeding my baby and would cringe if i was congratulated by anyone other than family. In fact, when i took charlie for his checks before his immunisations when the doctor asked if i breast feed and i said yes i was relieved when he just ticked the box and moved on. I feed my baby. My friend who tried to breast feed but struggled so ff feeds her baby. My other friend who chose to ff from day one feeds her baby.


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## bbyno1

Argh it's the same with me.2 bottle changes,3 formula changes,3 teat changes,Infacol,gripe water,the lot i have tried and i think i have only just got there after 3 1/2 months :dohh: 

The thing is formula feeding seems very easy but its actually really hard work too..When i took my LO to the doctor's due to her having such bad wind ,the doctor turn t around and said to me ' it would have been so much easier if you had just breast fed this entire time' .Im not saying breast feeding is any easier and i do think people who breast feed do really well but i also think people who formula feed do too.

It can be hard work finding out which formula suits them,then it's the teat size,oh then its the type bottle your using then its the sterilizing and preparing them for when you go out for the day etc. I say a big congratulations to us all :D x


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## Adela Quested

x


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## pip holder

For me - (I had a BF ticker) it was so physically demanding as well as the newborn stresses we ALL have, it just spurred me on a bit more.

I had mastitis, bleeding nipples, engorgement, constant leaking etc - as well as a baby that wouldn't latch so I had that fecking pump on me constantly :haha: the encouragement for me seeing another week had passed was great.

I also had one for when I was dieting too - doesn't mean I'm having a dig at anyone elses eating habits :shrug: just encouraged me along a bit.

Y'know this will turn in to FF v BF though, sad as we all need to feed our babies, people need to just concentrate on their own families instead of berating others

:flower::hugs:


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## Adela Quested

bbyno1 said:


> When i took my LO to the doctor's due to her having such bad wind ,the doctor turn t around and said to me ' it would have been so much easier if you had just breast fed this entire time'

That is so rude! How on earth does the doctor know anything about your situation? Not everyone is able to BF for all sorts of reasons, and even if it's just that you didn't want to then that is your right!

(I BF btw)


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## RJsMum

I would think because it's something that can be easily given up on. You get one bad latch or LO takes a little longer to figure it out and lots of moms are quick to throw in the towel.

I don't think it's ever meant to be a dig at FF moms, but seeing how (especially the UK) there is a lower percentage of BF moms, it's something to be commended. It's exhausting, and sometimes painful when things don't go right. BF babies feed quite frequently as BM is easily digested and the actual act of BF can make a mom physically tired. I can't count the amount of times in the first few weeks when DH had to sit right next to me because I was shattered but he didn't want me to fall asleep while nursing. Plus there are things like mastitis and blocked ducts that can be painful...as well as when LO is teething or has cut teeth and the off chance that you get bitten. (DS has drawn blood on me several times.)

I think it's just something that you have to make a real commitment to (if you're not one who isn't physically able to BF for any number of reasons) and because of the struggle, I can say as a BF mom, the support from others alone has given me the motivation to carry on.

That's only my experience and my opinion anyway.


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## NG09

Thanks for the responses girls, I honestly think no matter how you choose to feed your baby it can be bloody hard work getting it right either way!!


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## pip holder

NG09 said:


> Thanks for the responses girls, I honestly think no matter how you choose to feed your baby it can be bloody hard work getting it right either way!!

:thumbup::thumbup:

:hugs:


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## NG09

Adela Quested said:


> bbyno1 said:
> 
> 
> When i took my LO to the doctor's due to her having such bad wind ,the doctor turn t around and said to me ' it would have been so much easier if you had just breast fed this entire time'
> 
> That is so rude! How on earth does the doctor know anything about your situation? Not everyone is able to BF for all sorts of reasons, and even if it's just that you didn't want to then that is your right!
> 
> (I BF btw)Click to expand...

I know it's terrible, I have been in tears numerous times over the feeding issues I have with my LO and sometimes the docs/hv's do nothing but make you feel guilty.


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## AppleBlossom

Because FF is inferior. ;)

To be honest, I don't think it's at all fair to congratulate one over the other. I have experiened both BF and FF. They're both hard in their own right. BF being so because it can be extremely painful and stressful, latching problems, having to cope with public feeding etc. FF because you can't just whip your boob out when your child is crying. It doesn't matter if it's 3am, you have to get up, boil the kettle, wait for it to cool, measure the powder... all while your LO is crying because they're hungry. Then ther's the fact FFers get a lot of flack (nobody can possibly say that doesn't happen because it DOES) for the fact they don't BF. People telling them they're selfish and they aren't giving their child the best start in life and they will end up with allergies and not doing well in school (all BS in my own experience) 

I know it will never happen in a million years, especially on here, but it would be nice to see women supporting and congratulating each other on the way they choose to bring up their children, because it is tough to bring up a child however you do it, instead of slagging them off at every opportunity about the fact they FF or they wean earlier than 6 months or whatever. In blunt terms, we need to get a grip and stop getting so arsey about other people. If you truely feel how you parent is appropriate and works for YOU and YOUR CHILD then A) Why be bothered what other people think? and B) Why be bothered about what other people do?


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## Fraggles

I think from my point of view you are doing it alone when BF and it can be bloody hard what with thrush, mastitis, blocked ducts etc etc, but rather than congratulate id rather support be there for people who want to BF. There are so many issues to feeding a child be it by FF or BF and as much as people think it's a natural thing for babies to get milk it's not always that easy no matter what way people choose to feed.

I think we should congratulate people who look after their children, support the ones who struggle and campaign for the safety of the poor ones who are neglected.


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## louandivy

Because the breastfeeding rates in this country are depressingly low, it can be EXTREMELY painful to start with, it can mean (well it does for me)~ that you pretty much have no life outside of your baby, you are nourishing your baby with your body which is pretty amazing and I'm sorry, but there is no denying that breastmilk is superior to formula. And that is not a dig at FF mums its just a fact. I don't see why a BF mother can't be congratulated by fear of offending others, it can be very difficult especially with older generations convinced that we should be formula feeding.n My grandma called it 'disgusting'.


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## Dopeyjopey

Personally i hate being congratulated by health professionals - i'm just doing what feels right and what they push for me to do :shrug:

I think it is nice when another mum does though!


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## _Vicky_

I have had the easiest baby to BF (Fynn) and the hardest (Sam aka nibbler) 

FF Sam was easy and FF Fynn was a nightmare!!!

Add to that the mastitus abscesses that had to be surgically drained due to me arsing up supply and demand - I think I can safely say - feeding babies is hard whatever option you choose. x


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## xemmax

i don't think by congratulating a mother who breastfeeds it should be taken offensively by a mother who formula feeds. i just think on this forum people are so sensitive that even the mention of either can cause an immediate defensive stance. it's quite sad really, but i do understand it.


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## NG09

I'm not offended, just interested thats all.


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## xemmax

i know you're not hun, but others were as i remember?


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## MrsT&Ben

I think we should all be congratulated!! We bring our babies up the way we see fit and well done to us. :thumbup:


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## AppleBlossom

xemmax said:


> i don't think by congratulating a mother who breastfeeds it should be taken offensively by a mother who formula feeds. i just think on this forum people are so sensitive that even the mention of either can cause an immediate defensive stance. it's quite sad really, but i do understand it.

I think the reason FFers get offended is because to say to one person "Wow, you're BFing? Well done!" then to say to another "You're FFing? Didn't you want give your child the best start in life." is a little bit harsh imo. You can;t go round congratulating one lot of people then slating the rest. BFers very very rarely get any slack for BFing, FFers do contantly. I am not offended when people tell me the fact I didn't continue BFing was selfish and wrong and that my child is now going to always be stupid and ill. I know none of that is true. I get annoyed for all the other FFers who struggle and are never ever praised but are told continuously that the way they feed their child is wrong


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## Celesse

I don't expect to be congratulated. I have a breastfeeding ticker so that when new mums post asking for breastfeeding advice they can see its coming from someone who has breastfed for x amount of time.


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## aliss

I guess it depends on the area. Where I am from, women breastfeed - end of. I am the first in my family to not have continued breastfeeding (I did exclusively express for a month). I am the odd one out. So for us, there is no congratulations because it is not exceptional - it is the norm. So I don't congratulate BFs on here because to me, they are just doing what is normal/expected. To me, from my upbringing, it is bizarre to NOT breastfeed from the start. This is part of why combo feeding and then FF was so detrimental to me health-wise (moreso than my baby) because it was always instilled on me that FF was never an option - ever. So my self-esteem and image as a mother really took a hit.

I feel bad for those who get knocked for BF though. I don't understand what could go through someone's head to do so. I was BFd until around 3. My grandma BFd 13 babies. It is just the way it is here.


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## xemmax

AppleBlossom said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> i don't think by congratulating a mother who breastfeeds it should be taken offensively by a mother who formula feeds. i just think on this forum people are so sensitive that even the mention of either can cause an immediate defensive stance. it's quite sad really, but i do understand it.
> 
> I think the reason FFers get offended is because to say to one person "Wow, you're BFing? Well done!" then to say to another "You're FFing? Didn't you want give your child the best start in life." is a little bit harsh imo. You can;t go round congratulating one lot of people then slating the rest. BFers very very rarely get any slack for BFing, FFers do contantly. I am not offended when people tell me the fact I didn't continue BFing was selfish and wrong and that my child is now going to always be stupid and ill. I know none of that is true. I get annoyed for all the other FFers who struggle and are never ever praised but are told continuously that the way they feed their child is wrongClick to expand...

i do see your point, but i just don't think that by commending someone for something it should be seen as insulting to all those who don't. if i saw someone say "you formula feed? well done!" i wouldn't read into it as an insult against breastfeeding unless of course that was how it was intended.


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## XfairyhopesX

bbyno1 said:


> Argh it's the same with me.2 bottle changes,3 formula changes,3 teat changes,Infacol,gripe water,the lot i have tried and i think i have only just got there after 3 1/2 months :dohh:
> 
> The thing is formula feeding seems very easy but its actually really hard work too..When i took my LO to the doctor's due to her having such bad wind ,the doctor turn t around and said to me ' it would have been so much easier if you had just breast fed this entire time' .Im not saying breast feeding is any easier and i do think people who breast feed do really well but i also think people who formula feed do too.
> 
> It can be hard work finding out which formula suits them,then it's the teat size,oh then its the type bottle your using then its the sterilizing and preparing them for when you go out for the day etc. I say a big congratulations to us all :D x

OMG i have got to agree - aiden had 4 diff milks before settling which was a nightmare went from totally constipated to loose lit water, gripe water / OJ with water 7 times a day to make him go - screaming if not gone for 4 days not to mention the brush washing / sterilising etc etc, diff teats etc..... x


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## AppleBlossom

xemmax said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> i don't think by congratulating a mother who breastfeeds it should be taken offensively by a mother who formula feeds. i just think on this forum people are so sensitive that even the mention of either can cause an immediate defensive stance. it's quite sad really, but i do understand it.
> 
> I think the reason FFers get offended is because to say to one person "Wow, you're BFing? Well done!" then to say to another "You're FFing? Didn't you want give your child the best start in life." is a little bit harsh imo. You can;t go round congratulating one lot of people then slating the rest. BFers very very rarely get any slack for BFing, FFers do contantly. I am not offended when people tell me the fact I didn't continue BFing was selfish and wrong and that my child is now going to always be stupid and ill. I know none of that is true. I get annoyed for all the other FFers who struggle and are never ever praised but are told continuously that the way they feed their child is wrongClick to expand...
> 
> i do see your point, but i just don't think that by commending someone for something it should be seen as insulting to all those who don't. if i saw someone say "you formula feed? well done!" i wouldn't read into it as an insult against breastfeeding unless of course that was how it was intended.Click to expand...

I get your point, what I'm trying to say is, why do one lot of people deserve to be congratulated over another? Either support and congratulate mothers however they choose to feed, or don't congratulate either of them. I don't know if you BF (I'll assume you do) but if you try and remember what it was like when you became a first time mum, how scary it was, when you were unsure and worried what you were doing isn't right. Then on top of all that put a tonne of women telling you how awful you are for not BFing. In a long winded way, wat I'm trying to say is, it is unfair to fully support one group of people and slag off the other. It doesn't cost anything to give your support to a woman however she decides to feed her child. I am a single parent. I don't expect people to congratulate me on bringing up my extremely bright and happy child by myself. But I also don't expect them to slag me off. I know that is a bit irrelevant but it's just another comparison lol


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## Heavencanwait

I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again .....


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## xemmax

AppleBlossom said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> i don't think by congratulating a mother who breastfeeds it should be taken offensively by a mother who formula feeds. i just think on this forum people are so sensitive that even the mention of either can cause an immediate defensive stance. it's quite sad really, but i do understand it.
> 
> I think the reason FFers get offended is because to say to one person "Wow, you're BFing? Well done!" then to say to another "You're FFing? Didn't you want give your child the best start in life." is a little bit harsh imo. You can;t go round congratulating one lot of people then slating the rest. BFers very very rarely get any slack for BFing, FFers do contantly. I am not offended when people tell me the fact I didn't continue BFing was selfish and wrong and that my child is now going to always be stupid and ill. I know none of that is true. I get annoyed for all the other FFers who struggle and are never ever praised but are told continuously that the way they feed their child is wrongClick to expand...
> 
> i do see your point, but i just don't think that by commending someone for something it should be seen as insulting to all those who don't. if i saw someone say "you formula feed? well done!" i wouldn't read into it as an insult against breastfeeding unless of course that was how it was intended.Click to expand...
> 
> I get your point, what I'm trying to say is, why do one lot of people deserve to be congratulated over another? Either support and congratulate mothers however they choose to feed, or don't congratulate either of them. I don't know if you BF (I'll assume you do) but if you try and remember what it was like when you became a first time mum, how scary it was, when you were unsure and worried what you were doing isn't right. Then on top of all that put a tonne of women telling you how awful you are for not BFing. In a long winded way, wat I'm trying to say is, it is unfair to fully support one group of people and slag off the other. It doesn't cost anything to give your support to a woman however she decides to feed her child. I am a single parent. I don't expect people to congratulate me on bringing up my extremely bright and happy child by myself. But I also don't expect them to slag me off. I know that is a bit irrelevant but it's just another comparison lolClick to expand...

all mothers should be commended for their choices as long as they are acting for the benefit of their child, i totally agree. i think the fact that women are congratulated for breastfeeding and not formula feeding speaks for itself, it isn't seen as the norm anymore (at least in my area) so therefore it's a form of encouragement, i suppose?

for the record i think breastfeeding/formula feeding are both hard depending on your experience. i'm lucky to not have had any problems breastfeeding and therefore formula feeding seems much harder to me. but then i am fully aware of the problems that can come with breastfeeding so i know it can be hard work and take much perseverance. i guess what i'm trying to say is neither choice should be congratulated because it seems like it's hard work, more that it is the right choice for the child, be it formula/breast.


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## bathbabe

We all feed our babies I dont see why anybody should be congratulated over it. IMHO


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## louandivy

Heavencanwait said:


> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....

You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.


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## Feltzy

AppleBlossom said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> i don't think by congratulating a mother who breastfeeds it should be taken offensively by a mother who formula feeds. i just think on this forum people are so sensitive that even the mention of either can cause an immediate defensive stance. it's quite sad really, but i do understand it.
> 
> I think the reason FFers get offended is because to say to one person "Wow, you're BFing? Well done!" then to say to another "You're FFing? Didn't you want give your child the best start in life." is a little bit harsh imo. You can;t go round congratulating one lot of people then slating the rest. BFers very very rarely get any slack for BFing, FFers do contantly. I am not offended when people tell me the fact I didn't continue BFing was selfish and wrong and that my child is now going to always be stupid and ill. I know none of that is true. I get annoyed for all the other FFers who struggle and are never ever praised but are told continuously that the way they feed their child is wrongClick to expand...
> 
> i do see your point, but i just don't think that by commending someone for something it should be seen as insulting to all those who don't. if i saw someone say "you formula feed? well done!" i wouldn't read into it as an insult against breastfeeding unless of course that was how it was intended.Click to expand...
> 
> I get your point, what I'm trying to say is, why do one lot of people deserve to be congratulated over another? Either support and congratulate mothers however they choose to feed, or don't congratulate either of them. I don't know if you BF (I'll assume you do) but if you try and remember what it was like when you became a first time mum, how scary it was, when you were unsure and worried what you were doing isn't right. *Then on top of all that put a tonne of women telling you how awful you are for not BFing*. In a long winded way, wat I'm trying to say is, it is unfair to fully support one group of people and slag off the other. It doesn't cost anything to give your support to a woman however she decides to feed her child. I am a single parent. I don't expect people to congratulate me on bringing up my extremely bright and happy child by myself. But I also don't expect them to slag me off. I know that is a bit irrelevant but it's just another comparison lolClick to expand...

Its not always that way though, I've ff and bf and I've received more negative comments when bf. I think it depends what is the 'norm' in your area and your circle of family/friends. 

I think they were congratulating the OP in the other thread because she wanted to exclusively bf and, after struggling for a bit, she managed to do it. I'm sure it would be the same if a new mum who wanted to ff but was having problems getting her lo to take a bottle, then posted to say they had taken it and they were feeding really well. It wasn't a case of congratulating someone simply because they were bf.


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## bathbabe

louandivy said:


> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.Click to expand...

I think she was probs joking...


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## smokey

I think why BF should be congratulated is because BF can be so easy to give up on if you have a bad experiance but alot persavere and go through hell rather then give up but even though FF can be alot of hard work as well there isnt anything to give up on when it comes to FF because there is no further alternative.
There is no easy option but however we feed our babies we are all doing great and the best we can :)


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## JK1978

I think the people doing the congratulating are ones who themselves breastfed/feed. It's a attagirl to a momma, from a momma who has BTDT. I think people who do not practice CIO would congratulate a momma who also made the decision to not CIO. "Good job getting him to settle w/out CIO, momma!" Or those to compliment the cuteness of cloths on babies bottoms, or say congrats for making that choice. It's not a dig, and all babies need to eat, sleep, and have clean diapers... just a matter of like minded momma's patting the backs of another momma making similar choices.

It's rude to condemn one not making those choices, but not rude to commend those that are. There is a huge difference IMO.


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## Heavencanwait

louandivy said:


> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.Click to expand...

I don't know. All I see is guidelines constantly changing over the years. Im just saying never say never.


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## AP

Tried all different ways of feeding, we've gone from tube feeding - exclusively expressing - tried to breastfeed - mixing expressing and formula to reflux formula. I did get congratulated on keeping up the expressing for 15 weeks, i was proud after that tbh.

But the most stressful method i found was formula - finding the right one to actually get LO to feed and not throw up the whole bottle! No-one pats me on he back for formula feeding - but i would be nice if someone did say "You know what, you have done well for getting through a year of soul destroying reflux!"

We all need a pat on the back, we deal with so much when it comes to babies, whatever milk we use, however we do it, nappies, whatever.


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## PepsiChic

I think everyone wants to hear that they are doing a good job regardless of how they feed their baby. When i BF my LO on the plane over to the UK for my recent viit, the man in the row behind me congratulated me and IT MADE ME FEEL GREAT!

The other day i was changing my LO's diaper in the ladies bathroom and i was chatting away making a game of it like i always do, and a lady came out of the stall next to me and said "what a great mother you are! you've made changing time so fun, he seems so happy!" and IT MADE ME FEEL GREAT!

Its nice to be reconised and praised for the things we put time and effort into for our LO's, regardlss of what that activity is!


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## Celesse

Another thing kinda on the same thing. I often find that FF mum's feel the need to explain to me why they are FF. Example being I was telling a mum that I was on my way to a Baby Cafe and explained it was a BFing support group. She then went on to tell me all about how she had fed for x amount of time and stopped cos of such and such a reason. I hadn't asked about how she fed her baby, or said anything about BFing other than we where going to a group, but she felt the need to explain this to me. 

I think that it is really sad that she felt she had to give an explanation as if she must have expected me to judge her because I was BFing and she was not. I don't think BFing mums need to be congratulated and I don't think FFing mums need to explain themselves. If you FF it is either because you made a decision to do so, or the situation was out of your control. If you BF you had it easy or you worked at it. Either way we all do our best for our babies.


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## louandivy

PepsiChic said:


> I think everyone wants to hear that they are doing a good job regardless of how they feed their baby. When i BF my LO on the plane over to the UK for my recent viit, the man in the row behind me congratulated me and IT MADE ME FEEL GREAT!
> 
> The other day i was changing my LO's diaper in the ladies bathroom and i was chatting away making a game of it like i always do, and a lady came out of the stall next to me and said "what a great mother you are! you've made changing time so fun, he seems so happy!" and IT MADE ME FEEL GREAT!
> 
> Its nice to be reconised and praised for the things we put time and effort into for our LO's, regardlss of what that activity is!

aww what a nice lady! I'm so emotional post-baby that probably would have made me cry a little bit!


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## Missy86

Celesse said:


> Another thing kinda on the same thing. I often find that FF mum's feel the need to explain to me why they are FF. Example being I was telling a mum that I was on my way to a Baby Cafe and explained it was a BFing support group. She then went on to tell me all about how she had fed for x amount of time and stopped cos of such and such a reason. I hadn't asked about how she fed her baby, or said anything about BFing other than we where going to a group, but she felt the need to explain this to me.
> 
> I think that it is really sad that she felt she had to give an explanation as if she must have expected me to judge her because I was BFing and she was not. I don't think BFing mums need to be congratulated and I don't think FFing mums need to explain themselves. If you FF it is either because you made a decision to do so, or the situation was out of your control. If you BF you had it easy or you worked at it. Either way we all do our best for our babies.

I do feel the need to explain why I dont bf, not sure why


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## XfairyhopesX

Celesse said:


> Another thing kinda on the same thing. I often find that FF mum's feel the need to explain to me why they are FF. Example being I was telling a mum that I was on my way to a Baby Cafe and explained it was a BFing support group. She then went on to tell me all about how she had fed for x amount of time and stopped cos of such and such a reason. I hadn't asked about how she fed her baby, or said anything about BFing other than we where going to a group, but she felt the need to explain this to me.
> 
> I think that it is really sad that she felt she had to give an explanation as if she must have expected me to judge her because I was BFing and she was not. I don't think BFing mums need to be congratulated and I don't think FFing mums need to explain themselves. If you FF it is either because you made a decision to do so, or the situation was out of your control. If you BF you had it easy or you worked at it. Either way we all do our best for our babies.

I do that tbh not because im ashamed JUST incase they are quick to judge, aiden was in intensive care and i had v v poorly after sec / pre eclam / anemia and it just never happened i dint even try it xxx


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## PepsiChic

louandivy said:


> aww what a nice lady! I'm so emotional post-baby that probably would have made me cry a little bit!

i was on cloud 9 for the rest of the day. it is nice to hear things like that, especially when your looking after your Lo as best as you can, a little lift like that goes a long way :)


----------



## AppleBlossom

Missy86 said:


> Celesse said:
> 
> 
> Another thing kinda on the same thing. I often find that FF mum's feel the need to explain to me why they are FF. Example being I was telling a mum that I was on my way to a Baby Cafe and explained it was a BFing support group. She then went on to tell me all about how she had fed for x amount of time and stopped cos of such and such a reason. I hadn't asked about how she fed her baby, or said anything about BFing other than we where going to a group, but she felt the need to explain this to me.
> 
> I think that it is really sad that she felt she had to give an explanation as if she must have expected me to judge her because I was BFing and she was not. I don't think BFing mums need to be congratulated and I don't think FFing mums need to explain themselves. If you FF it is either because you made a decision to do so, or the situation was out of your control. If you BF you had it easy or you worked at it. Either way we all do our best for our babies.
> 
> I do feel the need to explain why I dont bf, not sure whyClick to expand...

Probably because if you don't, people will just assume you couldn't be bothered trying :shrug:


----------



## aob1013

Because breastfeeding isn't the norm these days, it's very hard to keep going, and by congratulating and supporting women who choose to breastfeed/continue to breastfeed hopefully that will get breastfeeding 'out there'.

When i speak to someone who breastfeeds, or any of my friends that are doing it, i have always congratulated them and told them how well they are doing. The act of breastfeeding is hard work, baby and Mum have to learn, the act of bottle feeding isn't hard.


----------



## aliss

It really boggles my mind that there are places in this world where BF is considered unusual! BnB sort of opened my mind to that one. Here you have two heads if you consider FF...


----------



## dani_tinks

You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard. Obviously not in the same way as BF and latching but it does come with other challenges.


----------



## NG09

aob1013 said:


> Because breastfeeding isn't the norm these days, it's very hard to keep going, and by congratulating and supporting women who choose to breastfeed/continue to breastfeed hopefully that will get breastfeeding 'out there'.
> 
> When i speak to someone who breastfeeds, or any of my friends that are doing it, i have always congratulated them and told them how well they are doing. The act of breastfeeding is hard work, baby and Mum have to learn, the act of bottle feeding isn't hard.

 5 formula changes, 3 teat changes, lots of meds, colic, reflux now lactose intolerance tells me otherwise!!


----------



## AP

aob1013 said:


> the act of bottle feeding isn't hard.

I have to disagree hun, Alex couldnt latch on to breast and barely latched on to any bottle. I tried every brand you could imagine. It wasnt until she was at least 3 months that life improved, but short of being tube fed again for a long time, we perservered, i cried and cried and cried. Absolutley terrible time. I found myself wishing at one point we really did go home tube fed :(


----------



## AppleBlossom

dani_tinks said:


> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.

I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easy


----------



## XfairyhopesX

dani_tinks said:


> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard. Obviously not in the same way as BF and latching but it does come with other challenges.

agreed - like i stated struggling with diff formulas and them making your baby fight or scream thye house down on a bott is not easy at all!!!


----------



## aob1013

AppleBlossom said:


> Because FF is inferior. ;)
> 
> To be honest, I don't think it's at all fair to congratulate one over the other. I have experiened both BF and FF. They're both hard in their own right. BF being so because it can be extremely painful and stressful, latching problems, having to cope with public feeding etc. FF because you can't just whip your boob out when your child is crying. It doesn't matter if it's 3am, you have to get up, boil the kettle, wait for it to cool, measure the powder... all while your LO is crying because they're hungry. Then ther's the fact FFers get a lot of flack (nobody can possibly say that doesn't happen because it DOES) for the fact they don't BF. People telling them they're selfish and they aren't giving their child the best start in life and they will end up with allergies and not doing well in school (all BS in my own experience)
> 
> *I know it will never happen in a million years, especially on here, but it would be nice to see women supporting and congratulating each other on the way they choose to bring up their children, because it is tough to bring up a child however you do it, instead of slagging them off at every opportunity about the fact they FF or they wean earlier than 6 months or whatever. In blunt terms, we need to get a grip and stop getting so arsey about other people. If you truely feel how you parent is appropriate and works for YOU and YOUR CHILD then A) Why be bothered what other people think? and B) Why be bothered about what other people do?*



This is EXACTLY it.

We have to stop caring what other people do. Formula isn't nasty, Breastfeeding isn't superior. At the end of the day, no baby will be worse of in regards to how they are fed. Who cares? I don't.


----------



## Celesse

My youngest sister was FF and was hard work. The rest of us where BF and pretty easy. 

I think here in North East England it is expected you will FF if you are under 25 and working class and that you will BF if you are over 30 and middle class. Not quite sure what they expect younger middle class and older working class mums to do?!?


----------



## aliss

FF is usually easier in the beginning if you have a baby that struggles to BF... FF is a lot more hard/complicated later on as time progresses. At least that is what I found.

Now exclusively expressing, that was the best and worst of both worlds. Ugh!


----------



## LankyDoodle

Who said they need congratulating? I haven't seen the thread in question...


----------



## dani_tinks

I hear ya Aliss. I managed to express for Jacob for just over a month. Hardest thing i've ever had to do... along with pushing him out.


----------



## Missy86

Rhys could bf AOB he found it easy, it was me that had the problem
Mind you bottle feeding him is easy, he will drink from any bottle


----------



## WW1

aob1013 said:


> Because breastfeeding isn't the norm these days, it's very hard to keep going, and by congratulating and supporting women who choose to breastfeed/continue to breastfeed hopefully that will get breastfeeding 'out there'.
> 
> When i speak to someone who breastfeeds, or any of my friends that are doing it, i have always congratulated them and told them how well they are doing. The act of breastfeeding is hard work, baby and Mum have to learn, the act of bottle feeding isn't hard.

I agree with the vast majority of this post except the very last bit. 

BFing for many women is hard. However so is bottle feeding! I expressed for my LO (long story) and had to contend with colic, silent reflux and once I changed to FF constipation. It was soul destroying having every feed as a battle ground as your baby is in too much pain to feed.

It's the same old story. Unless you 've walked a mile in someone else's shoes you really can't judge. Both methods of feeding can be extremely hard - to assume one isn't hard is unfair.


----------



## aob1013

I've had serious problems trying to get Leni to take a bottle, he point blank refuses so i yes i know it can be hard.

I meant it in general terms, teaching a baby to latch is hard, but puttle a bottle in their mouth isn't. Obviously, like usual there will be exceptions! I meant just in general, i would say that breastfeeding is harder. Just my opinion, that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I don't care how anybody's baby is fed, all i care about is that they ARE fed.


----------



## AppleBlossom

Ugh I breastfed for 2 weeks (worst two weeks of my life, won't go into detail) and then I expressed exclusively for 2 weeks and my god, that was frustrating as hell too


----------



## bathbabe

Actually FF can be hard. it used to take me 1-2 hours to get LO to take 15ml of milk. I would then start all over again an hour later. There is no way he would of BF, it was hard enough getting him to FF


----------



## Missy86

Anyone who expresses gets my congrats, its bloody hard


----------



## Sugarmuppet

aliss said:


> Now exclusively expressing, that was the best and worst of both worlds. Ugh!

Yip, I agree with that one. I did it exclusivly for 6 months and def had a love/hate relationship with the pump!! 

I did like it when people congratualted me though, as I took it to mean I was doing the right thing. It made getting up twice a night to express when my baby was sound asleep a little bit easier.


----------



## special_kala

River is FF but i understand why people congratulate on BF as it can be hard work and some people get alot of hassle of family members/friends/strangers and even doctors for BF.

It is in the minority so when people who BF see other people who do then they are just happy and i dont see a problem with it.

Some things #some# people who BF can offend me as a FF but this certainly isnt one of those things


----------



## aob1013

People that exclusively express need congratulating! I did it for a week and that was hard enough!


----------



## AP

I think im the only one who actually likes exclusively expressing :rofl: but im guessing thats because i didnt have alex home - omg, that was hard and i gave up after 3 weeks!
15 weeks in total though :)


----------



## aliss

sb22 said:


> I think im the only one who actually likes exclusively expressing :rofl: but im guessing thats because i didnt have alex home - omg, that was hard and i gave up after 3 weeks!

You might be :wacko: LOL. I struggled through it as LO would be screaming for food but it would take forever to pump, I remember falling asleep once hooked up to my cow udders and falling off the rocking chair!!!

LOL Yes, I cried over the spilt milk. Especially as I had the baby blues


----------



## dani_tinks

I enjoyed it to begin with :)


----------



## bbyno1

Probably a stupid Q but breast fed babies-Once they have learn t to latch on the once is that it or do they need to learn a good few times IYKWIM?x


----------



## special_kala

I tried exclusively expressing as River couldnt latch and i just couldnt do it. I fed her every 2 hours and pumped every 2 hours so i never got to feed her.

My next bubba better not have tongue tie again


----------



## Sugarmuppet

sb22 said:


> I think im the only one who actually likes exclusively expressing :rofl: but im guessing thats because i didnt have alex home - omg, that was hard and i gave up after 3 weeks!
> 15 weeks in total though :)

Yes, I liked expressing when Gaby was in the hospital as I felt like it was the only thing I could do for her. Got well fed up with it when she was at home though! We lived our lives round the pump for far too long!


----------



## LankyDoodle

I actually think bottle feeding IS hard. That's from someone who's done it (as a nanny). It's a piggin' nightmare, and I can only imagine how hellish it is for mums/dads who have to get up once, twice, three times or more a night to make up bottles for their baby. :nope: When I get up in the night to my baby if I have to, she comes and spends the rest of the night in bed with me and that's where I feed her. No bottles need making up. Nothing is on timer. No sterilising needed. 

We did however have problems in the first week due to a tongue tie and then at 4 months due to mastitis.

I don't actually think congratulating people who breastfeed helps breastfeeding rates. Sure it's nice to have a pat on the back from those close to you, but congratulating people on something surely just denormalises it.

I would hope people don't see my ticker as me looking for congratulations. I just like bling LOL.

As someone who is going to very soon be starting the NCT Breastfeeding Counsellor training, I wish we could all just start accepting each other and supporting each other. In many other cultures, people who struggle with breastfeeding get untold support from their peers; I feel that here, in this society, people who can't breastfeed for whatever reason, feel ashamed so rather than try to get support from peers who may be able to help, they shut it all away. Perhaps we should concentrate more on supporting each other rather than condemning each other (be it directly or indirectly).


----------



## aob1013

Some babies take to it naturally and others take a good while. Hours, days, etc. We were very lucky despite him being 6 weeks early and a EMCS that he latched straight away and we've never had problems.


----------



## SKATERBUN

My doctor and Health visitors keep doing this with me as I managed to BF LO for one month exactly. I say oh thanks, and it does feel kinda like an achievement as I went through hell trying. LO was loosing too much weigh though so we had to FF in the end.
I will definitely perserve BF with LO no.2 (if we are blessed) as I find FF a pain in the neck, preparing bottles, measuring formula etc it would be so much easier if LO could just latch on. I dont blame myself, its just a lesson Ive learnt. Shes not been detrimented by being a FF baby, I think the DR and HV think she must of had a good start in life with the 4 weeks of natural immunity she must of got from me which is better than nothing I guess. :)


----------



## Sugarmuppet

bbyno1 said:


> Probably a stupid Q but breast fed babies-Once they have learn t to latch on the once is that it or do they need to learn a good few times IYKWIM?x

Gaby learned to latch on when she was 16 weeks old and always did it after that. But I had become so used to expressing by then I carried on and didn't let her feed from me often.

16 weeks to learn what takes most baby seconds, grrrrrrr, will be having strong words with her when she is older!! :haha:


----------



## Feltzy

I must admit having ff Evie I think that was harder in the long run, it was hard to begin with when bf Alfie but once I got past the sore nips etc and it became properly established I am finding it so much easier. I don't have to make/wash sterilise bottles and in the middle of the night when he wakes up all I have to do is roll over and latch him on, then I'm straight back to sleep!


----------



## Natasha2605

TBH I admire anyone that BF, I truly do. In my experience it's 100 times more difficult than FF but that's because we bought the bottles and Summer took to them straight away and we've never had to change milk etc, so I've never had any problems.

Yes, FF is harder in the way that each bottle should be washed, sterilised etc but when you make the decision to FF you choose it to be more inconvenient in that degree.

I do admire BF's for doing it, massively, for so many reasons but I can honestly say I'll never BF, just my choice.

We're all mummies doing the best for our children so nobody should be congratulated. Admired, yes. Congratulated, no xx


----------



## Jchihuahua

I don't want congratulating off anyone. But I am proud of myself for keeping it up for so long after bouts of mastitis and bleeding nipples and while working full time (I express those 2 bottles). I don't care what anyone else thinks about it but for me personally it is an acheivement.


----------



## freckleonear

I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.

You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)


----------



## ellie

I like being congratulated too :) and if no one does then I like to congratulate myself lol!
For me it feels like an achievement, because we had such a rough time getting it started. Also, it is soemthing that can easily be given up because there are good alternatives easily available. (Whereas if you FF you generally cannot give that up!)
As freckleonear says, we're set up to fail at it, and relatively few women actually do BF, even fewer carry it on. So I think it does deserve congratulations when someone manages to stick at it.


----------



## NG09

I don't know, myself like lots of other women on here have had terrible times trying to FF. I can't speak for anmyone else but it had me in tears numerous times trying to get formulas etc that suit my son . I think it's a bit mean to say that FF'ing is the bare minimum needed for survival, but then again we are all entitled to our own opinions.

I'm just really glad that this thread hasn't turned nasty but we are all having our say :flow:


----------



## Shazzy

Sugarmuppet said:


> bbyno1 said:
> 
> 
> Probably a stupid Q but breast fed babies-Once they have learn t to latch on the once is that it or do they need to learn a good few times IYKWIM?x
> 
> Gaby learned to latch on when she was 16 weeks old and always did it after that. But I had become so used to expressing by then I carried on and didn't let her feed from me often.
> 
> 16 weeks to learn what takes most baby seconds, grrrrrrr, will be having strong words with her when she is older!! :haha:Click to expand...

Same here, we took two months to latch, and expressing is a real pain, because you still have to sterilise/wash clean the bottle! at four months she decided that she preferred the bottle and i gave up the fight and ff full time from there.


----------



## smelly07

I think THE most important thing is that what ever method you choose you are happy with it, i dont think one is harder than the other. like someone else said as long as the baby is being fed thats all that matters.


----------



## Lightworker

i think moms who BF should be congratulated as firstly, they are feeding their LOs the best nutrition-wise. also i think they are specifically congratulated as majority of moms dont BF exclusively and people, govt etc are trying to get more people doin it hence the congrats. also the difficulties they may face and overcome eg sore boobs, NIP, etc.


----------



## Missy86

freckleonear said:


> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)

To say formula feeding is the bare minimum needed for survial is really mean. I may not feed my baby from the boob but there is just as much love in the bottles I give him. You saying that makes me glad I dont say congrats to bfeeding mummies


----------



## Sarah10

I think they can both take some blinking hard work, Jayden is on milk type 3 tomorrow, SMA yellow didn't agree with him, he was constipated, throwing up and wanting milk every half hour. Then we was on hungry milk til today, he throws up every feed, then screams as though he is in pain, he has reflux, so tomorrow we are on the staydown milk, if that doesn't work after a couple of weeks then we are off to get more advice.
Then on the other hand people who BF can have problems like sore breasts, it can feel like you are feeding constantly for the first few weeks, you don't get a break unless you express or combi feed. 

List is endless for both i think.


----------



## kirmal12

OT for a minute.

How do you manage to BF another baby when you have a toddler?, "IF" i have another it will be soonish and i will BF the next one whatever it takes. I'm just thinking along the lines of growth spurts with almost round the clock feeding?


----------



## becstar

Whichever way you choose (or end up) you get stick... I've been told by my _GP_ that she'll never give it up by herself, asked 'are you STILL breastfeeding?!' when she was 8 months!!!!, and been told it's a shame I'm still breastfeeding on two occasions. I've had endless grief from people at work who thought I was weird for continuing to bf after going back to work and for choosing to spend my breaks pumping for her until she was one (so for 8 months) and got told off for leaving my sterilised pump parts in the staffroom once because it was 'unhygienic'. 

I like to be told well done by people who matter to me because it hasn't been a bed of roses all the time, no matter how much I enjoy it, but the important thing to me is that my daughter and I enjoy it and she thrived on it (piled on weight and is healthy and happy). I don't expect or deserve a prize for it but I don't expect or deserve sly comments or smirks, either. I get a mixture of both! :dohh:


----------



## leelee

Missy86 said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> To say formula feeding is the bare minimum needed for survial is really mean. I may not feed my baby from the boob but there is just as much love in the bottles I give him. You saying that makes me glad I dont say congrats to bfeeding mummiesClick to expand...

Agree with this. This thread was actually going really well for once and then someone has to post something like that. Some people on here are so nasty.


----------



## moomoo

I think it's probably because BFing is bloody hard work!!! Everthing is down to you... Feeding (which BF babies rarely go the magical 4 hours between feeds) a LOT, maybe a traumatic or long labour with little or no sleep... You can't just hand over your boobies to someone else to feed whilst you recover... If your baby gains or doesn't gain weight well is all down to you. If you get mastitis or ill nobody else feeds you baby it's you. 

I think where BFing rates are so low and so many people just choose to bottle feed it should be congratulated (I know some peope don't choose to bottle feed, I was one of these people)

I have done breast and bottle fed btw so please don't bash me for my comments!


----------



## leelee

I think BF is harder at the beginning but then when you get into your stride I think FF is probably harder because it is not as convenient or practical. I am only guessing this as I FF.

I actually think people that express have the hardest job because they have to feed the baby and then express afterwards. So you are pumping from your boobs but also having to sterlise and make up bottles. I only managed to express for a month but I think women that do it for months and months are amazing.


----------



## smelly07

leelee said:


> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> To say formula feeding is the bare minimum needed for survial is really mean. I may not feed my baby from the boob but there is just as much love in the bottles I give him. You saying that makes me glad I dont say congrats to bfeeding mummiesClick to expand...
> 
> Agree with this. This thread was actually going really well for once and then someone has to post something like that. Some people on here are so nasty.Click to expand...

i Agree with this also, there was no need for that comment at all, that was just wrong.


----------



## leelee

smelly07 said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> To say formula feeding is the bare minimum needed for survial is really mean. I may not feed my baby from the boob but there is just as much love in the bottles I give him. You saying that makes me glad I dont say congrats to bfeeding mummiesClick to expand...
> 
> Agree with this. This thread was actually going really well for once and then someone has to post something like that. Some people on here are so nasty.Click to expand...
> 
> i Agree with this also, there was no need for that comment at all, that was just wrong.Click to expand...

There is always someone waiting in the wings to make a spiteful comment. Babyclub is full of them :(


----------



## moomoo

kirmal12 said:


> OT for a minute.
> 
> How do you manage to BF another baby when you have a toddler?, "IF" i have another it will be soonish and i will BF the next one whatever it takes. I'm just thinking along the lines of growth spurts with almost round the clock feeding?

I'm already worried about this! I think a sling would come in handy for the feed-a-thons!!


----------



## angelandbump

I was never congratulated :( i was just told welldone for my circumstances around my bf feeding...

My son was born 6 weeks early and had a poor sucking reflex so for his first 6 weeks of life i pumped milk and fed him so i would have to wake up 30 mins before he was due then feed him for a further 30 minutes and it was hard work! 

Needless to say i was that tierd my milk dried up and i had to move him onto formular but i will always congratulate someone for breast feeding if they where determined to do so cause i know how hard it is and unlike formular feeding, breast feeding takes alot out of you!

xx

Edit: oh actually thinking about it, at the moment formular feeding is straining on a night as i make my bottles fresh every time and unlike when they wake just putting them to the breast with not many tears, lo is left crying for the 5mins it takes to boil the kettle, add the powder then cool it down enough for lo to drink!

Congrats to FF mums too lol xx


----------



## Sam9kids

freckleonear said:


> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)

Cant even be mithered saying what i think about this!:dohh:

Even though a get an awful lot .....I personally dont need any congratulating or praise from anyone about any part of parenting

Looking at my kids and who and how they are is all need to know im doing good 

As for the topic, as long as a baby is fed then thats all that matters :flower:x


----------



## smartie

moomoo said:


> kirmal12 said:
> 
> 
> OT for a minute.
> 
> How do you manage to BF another baby when you have a toddler?, "IF" i have another it will be soonish and i will BF the next one whatever it takes. I'm just thinking along the lines of growth spurts with almost round the clock feeding?
> 
> I'm already worried about this! I think a sling would come in handy for the feed-a-thons!!Click to expand...

I have 20 months between my 2 kids and have BF them both. 2nd time round, it was definately my preferred option so I wouldnt have to spend extra time cleaning, sterilising and making up formula, knowing things would already be hectic! As it happens Callum wont take a bottle anyway :dohh: When I was feeding Callum I still had one hand free to read a book to Hannah or she would bring a toy over to the couch and we'd play with it together there

During the night I would just bring Callum into the bed and feed him lying on my side and doze til he was finished (every little extra sleep helps!)


----------



## emsiee

freckleonear said:


> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies.

Thats a bit harsh. And a really arrogant way of putting it


----------



## bump_wanted

Sam9kids said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. *There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect*, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> Cant even be mithered saying what i think about this!:dohh:
> 
> Even though a get an awful lot .....I personally dont need any congratulating or praise from anyone about any part of parenting
> 
> Looking at my kids and who and how they are is all need to know im doing good
> 
> As for the topic, as long as a baby is fed then thats all that matters :flower:xClick to expand...

the line in bold is the most offensive thing ive read on here.

i actually have no words...


----------



## ellie

i dont think freckleonear was meaning to be nasty :flower: i read it as meaning the same thing i meant, that you can't (usually) give up on FF'ing but people do give up on BF'ing? (I know sometimes not out of choice but people do give up out of choice and there is always FF, whereas if you are having a hard time FF'ing there isnt another alternative?) :shrug:

It's really nice to see a thread like this being supportive and gentle, so I really hope people don't take unecessary offence to things and make it go all squiffy :flower:

Personally I like it that mums are congratulated for bf'ing, as for many it does feel like a big achievement and it's nice for things to be acknowledged sometimes. Nothing wrong with being proud of it.


----------



## Leesie

I like to congratulate BF'ing mummies, esp those who are still in the early weeks when it's really tough and are struggling to hang in there. The reason I do it is because I had a really rough time at the start (very sensitive nipples, recurrent thrush, tongue tie leading to latching issues) and one of the things that got me through was my MW, my mum and my DH all supporting me and telling me all the time what a good job I was doing. They were my cheering section and I couldn't have done it without them. Everyone deserves that kind of support and my heart goes out to mummies who have their decision to BF undermined esp. when they are at their most vulnerable. 

If I hadn't have BF'ed I would have had regrets. I'm not saying FF mummies should regret their choices, but for me BF'ing was very important. 

What I'm trying to say in a long-winded way is that I try to pass on some of the great encouragement I got. I realise congratulating someone on an online forum isn't much but I hope it makes a difference to the mummy being congratulated and encourages her in small way to keep going so that she never has to have any regrets about how she fed her baby.


----------



## freckleonear

I'm sorry that my comment was taken like that, I honestly meant no offence. What I was trying to say and obviously failed, was that you can't just give up on formula feeding because there is no other option to keep your baby alive. If you are breastfeeding then it is possible to give up and use formula instead. I really didn't mean it nastily and I apologise to those who thought I did.


----------



## Missy86

Thinking about it Bfeeding mums shouldnt get congrats after all they are just doing what comes naturally, I think you should say well done to everyone for doing their best


----------



## Janidog

I do sometimes want to be cheeky and add one of the 'milestone tickers' saying 4 month milestone for FF :haha:

I have had to change bottles etc...... until i found the right one for my LO as well as formula.

Had I BF i think i would have found those that congratulated me quite condescending, but then thats me


----------



## karenm28

Well I am proud of myself and will accept congratulations where offered :flower:

I kept my DS alive and healthy only with the nourishment from my own body. 
He fed every hour through the day, every two hours through the night, constantly through the evenings for 6 whole months, he only started to slow his feeds down after 6 months. 
I didn't give up even though I was exhausted most of the time, I didn't switch to fomula just to make him sleep through the night like people were constantly telling me to, I gave up alcohol and caffeine for months, I fed on demand, I gave up nights out, days out, I gave that whole year to my DS.
He is tall, healthy and strong and that is down to me and my hard work. 
It was the hardest thing I have ever done but the most rewarding.

And that is not to say anything negative about FF, if I couldn't have BF I would have FF of course, I was FF myself, I both FF and BF from DS being 6 months to 13 months so I have nothing against FF and there is a place for FF.

Yes I was lucky in that my DS could latch on but my 2 SILs both wanted to BF and switched to FF on the first day without really trying, it is so easy to give up and the pressure is on you to give up, you do hear a lot of flimsy excuses (besides the rarer genuine excuses) so I will accept congratulations for not giving up when the odds are against BF (as shown by it being so much in the minority nowadays).

Karen
x


----------



## Leesie

Missy86 said:


> Thinking about it Bfeeding mums shouldnt get congrats after all they are just doing what comes naturally,

I think some might disagree with you on that Missy86, BF'ing has become somewhat of a lost art due to the high rates of FF'ing in previous generations. BF'ing did not come naturally to me, it had to be learnt by me and by my LO. I'm not saying that's a reason for congratulations per se, but lots of mummies find that BF'ing is not a piece of cake - not only are there physical challenges but it is simply not accepted by society as the norm, and requires support and encouragement (and yes, maybe even congratulations at times) IMO.


----------



## suzanne108

AppleBlossom said:


> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.
> 
> I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easyClick to expand...

Then wash and sterilize them all :coffee:


----------



## NG09

freckleonear said:


> I'm sorry that my comment was taken like that, I honestly meant no offence. What I was trying to say and obviously failed, was that you can't just give up on formula feeding because there is no other option to keep your baby alive. If you are breastfeeding then it is possible to give up and use formula instead. I really didn't mean it nastily and I apologise to those who thought I did.

Thanks for apologising, would have been a shame to see the whole thread go downhill after this lenghth of time :thumbup:


----------



## bump_wanted

i just think at the end of the day we should all be congratulated being a mother is a god dam hard job we're all just doing our best trying to ensure we bring LO's up to be good people at the end of it all will it matter how they are fed?? xx


----------



## leelee

suzanne108 said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.
> 
> I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easyClick to expand...
> 
> Then wash and sterilize them all :coffee:Click to expand...

What's the point of that statement? They still all need to be washed and sterlized in a 24 hour period, it doesn't matter if they are done in one go or one at a time???


----------



## sjminimac

i might be completely naive but everyone keeps saying bf is not the norm and 'frowned upon', who by? I haven't come across anyone being negative or anything in the 10 weeks i've been bf so it seems a bit over the top to say that x


----------



## louandivy

leelee said:


> suzanne108 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.
> 
> I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easyClick to expand...
> 
> Then wash and sterilize them all :coffee:Click to expand...
> 
> What's the point of that statement? They still all need to be washed and sterlized in a 24 hour period, it doesn't matter if they are done in one go or one at a time???Click to expand...

I don't think Suzanne108 meant that in an insulting way at all there is no need to get so touchy!


----------



## Janidog

karenm28 said:


> Well I am proud of myself and will accept congratulations where offered :flower:
> 
> *I kept my DS alive and healthy only with the nourishment from my own body*.
> He fed every hour through the day, every two hours through the night, constantly through the evenings for 6 whole months, he only started to slow his feeds down after 6 months.
> I didn't give up even though I was exhausted most of the time, I didn't switch to fomula just to make him sleep through the night like people were constantly telling me to, I gave up alcohol and caffeine for months, I fed on demand, I gave up nights out, days out, I gave that whole year to my DS.
> He is tall, healthy and strong and that is down to me and my hard work.
> It was the hardest thing I have ever done but the most rewarding.
> 
> And that is not to say anything negative about FF, if I couldn't have BF I would have FF of course, I was FF myself, I both FF and BF from DS being 6 months to 13 months so I have nothing against FF and there is a place for FF.
> 
> Yes I was lucky in that my DS could latch on but my 2 SILs both wanted to BF and switched to FF on the first day without really trying, it is so easy to give up and the pressure is on you to give up, you do hear a lot of flimsy excuses (besides the rarer genuine excuses) so I will accept congratulations for not giving up when the odds are against BF (as shown by it being so much in the minority nowadays).
> 
> Karen
> x

I kept my DS alive by feeding him a bottle as he couldn't feed himself as he couldn't even hold the bottle the moment he was born :rolleyes:


----------



## suzanne108

leelee said:


> suzanne108 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.
> 
> I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easyClick to expand...
> 
> Then wash and sterilize them all :coffee:Click to expand...
> 
> What's the point of that statement? They still all need to be washed and sterlized in a 24 hour period, it doesn't matter if they are done in one go or one at a time???Click to expand...

Lol sorry, maybe I should have explained myself a little better! 

I was agreeing AppleBlossom that FF isn't easy because like she says in her post you can be woken up several times a night, have to make up several bottles then to add to it you need to wash & sterilize all those bottles ready for the next night. Which isn't hard, but it's damn time consuming. And actually yes it is hard when you have a clingy baby! 

I hope you understand what I mean. It's been a long day and I can't word this any better right now!


----------



## Drazic<3

Leesie said:


> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> Thinking about it Bfeeding mums shouldnt get congrats after all they are just doing what comes naturally,
> 
> I think some might disagree with you on that Missy86, BF'ing has become somewhat of a lost art due to the high rates of FF'ing in previous generations. BF'ing did not come naturally to me, it had to be learnt by me and by my LO. I'm not saying that's a reason for congratulations per se, but lots of mummies find that BF'ing is not a piece of cake - not only are there physical challenges but it is simply not accepted by society as the norm, and requires support and encouragement (and yes, maybe even congratulations at times) IMO.Click to expand...

Totally agree. I have honestly been in agony with breastfeeding. It might look like they just pop on and eat away, but it's not that easy for the majority. With the continuing challenges we have with BF, I do congratulate myself. I don't berate FF in the same breath. I am just pleased that I am continuing to do as I feel is best for MY baby (not for everyones) and I celebrate that fact. And with respect, will do so without apology. 

I feel for the girls who solely EBF - the hardest of both worlds! So much respect for those ladies for doing again what they feel is best for their babes. pain, stress and the sterilising!


----------



## leelee

louandivy said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> suzanne108 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.
> 
> I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easyClick to expand...
> 
> Then wash and sterilize them all :coffee:Click to expand...
> 
> What's the point of that statement? They still all need to be washed and sterlized in a 24 hour period, it doesn't matter if they are done in one go or one at a time???Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think Suzanne108 meant that in an insulting way at all there is no need to get so touchy!Click to expand...

I'm not getting touchy - I was asking what was the point of the statement??? You have assumed I am getting touchy. I'm not - it was a question


----------



## leelee

suzanne108 said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> suzanne108 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dani_tinks said:
> 
> 
> You've never met my son aob! He was a nightmare to bottle feed some days... take it from me. It can be very hard.
> 
> I agree! Anyone that says FFing isn't hard has obviousy not had to FF for a long period of time! Put it this way, Grace would wake up up to 8 times a night for a feed. That's up to 8 seperate bottles to make up between 10pm and 6am. I wouldn't class that as easyClick to expand...
> 
> Then wash and sterilize them all :coffee:Click to expand...
> 
> What's the point of that statement? They still all need to be washed and sterlized in a 24 hour period, it doesn't matter if they are done in one go or one at a time???Click to expand...
> 
> Lol sorry, maybe I should have explained myself a little better!
> 
> I was agreeing AppleBlossom that FF isn't easy because like she says in her post you can be woken up several times a night, have to make up several bottles then to add to it you need to wash & sterilize all those bottles ready for the next night. Which isn't hard, but it's damn time consuming. And actually yes it is hard when you have a clingy baby!
> 
> I hope you understand what I mean. It's been a long day and I can't word this any better right now!Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand what you are saying now. I just couldn't understand what you were trying to say. I certainly wasn't getting touchy. Lol!!!


----------



## HannahGraceee

To be honest, (im am a FFing mummy BUT was a BFing mummy) and i don't think either really needs to be congratulated... because we need to do it for our babies :) either way..

We don't congratulate eachother for feeding ourselfs :lol: x x


----------



## Lu28

For me, I think it's lovely to offer congratulations/support for a few reasons:

- it can be extremely difficult starting off - bleeding nipples, engorgement, mastitis - so painful that you actually cry during feeds - it's an achievement to persevere through that
- LO sometimes doesn't 'get it' - it took my LO over 2 weeks to latch on and it was only with the encouragement of people on here that I managed to keep going and being congratulated when I achieved my goal of getting to exclusive bfing felt lovely
- you don't get any break from LO at all, it's not as though you can hand your boobs over someone else for a few hours :haha:
- ALL of the resonsibility for nourising LO and helping them grow is on mum's shoulders. This was a huge one for me as Aisling didn't gain much between 4 and 7 months and I tortured myself thinking I didn't have a good enough supply, my milk was somehow not nutritious enough - and because it was just me and my body keeping her alive I felt it was my 'fault' that she wasn't gaining. The relief of her eventually starting solids was unreal.
- feeding in public can be difficult especially once LO is older and keeps unlatching to look around so the world can see your nipple :rolleyes:
- the numerous comments from people in my life - oh you're _still_ bfing, oh you're not going to be one of _those_ bfing mums are you, are you sure you're not starving her because she's not gaining....

So persevering through all of that was a massive achievement for me and someone saying well done to me was lovely :)

That said, I did supplement with formula for the first 5 weeks and by god what a pain in the bum it is! The logistics of making the stuff, worrying if it's still sterile, stupid teats getting blocked. Then seeing my friend FF out and about and I'd have fed Aisling by the time she'd managed to get her bottle to the right temperature while Lo was crying - way too much hassle for me!


----------



## karenm28

Janidog said:


> Well congratulations to you too then Janidog for not leaving him to starve to death :haha:


----------



## bloodbinds

*oops* Ignore


----------



## karenm28

I feel for the girls who solely EBF - the hardest of both worlds! So much respect for those ladies for doing again what they feel is best for their babes. pain, stress and the sterilising![/QUOTE]


I certainly agree with this, the ladies who solely express are the ones who need to be congratulated, that must be soooo hard, I have a friend who EBF premature twins and I don't think I could have managed EBF one let alone two.


----------



## bloodbinds

In my experience, FF is a lot harder than BF!!

I tried desperatly to get Bella to FF about 3 months into BF and it was soooooo hard!! BFing for me was easy, but FF was very difficult and a lot of work!


Saying that though, i know a lot of people who struggled with BFing and deserve a pat on the back for getting through it!

I don't think this should be a 'who has it harder' thread though! We all love our babies, yes?


----------



## karenm28

PS If anyone can tell me how to do the quotes properly I would appreciate it! x


----------



## Lightworker

i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all


----------



## Missy86

karenm28 said:


> PS If anyone can tell me how to do the quotes properly I would appreciate it! x

Use the quote button hun


----------



## NG09

bloodbinds said:


> In my experience, FF is a lot harder than BF!!
> 
> I tried desperatly to get Bella to FF about 3 months into BF and it was soooooo hard!! BFing for me was easy, but FF was very difficult and a lot of work!
> 
> 
> Saying that though, i know a lot of people who struggled with BFing and deserve a pat on the back for getting through it!
> 
> I don't think this should be a 'who has it harder' thread though! We all love our babies, yes?

No way! I think it's tough no matter what you do..... in saying that if anyone has an easy way of feeding and bringing up baby I want to know what they are doing!!! lol


----------



## Drazic<3

Karenm28 - just press the little purple 'quote' button at the right hand corner of the post, or copy and paste the text into these....



> [/QUOTE ] (but without the gaps)


----------



## aliss

Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(


----------



## moomoo

huggermomof2 said:


> i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all

I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## ellie

Janidog said:


> karenm28 said:
> 
> 
> Well I am proud of myself and will accept congratulations where offered :flower:
> 
> *I kept my DS alive and healthy only with the nourishment from my own body*.
> He fed every hour through the day, every two hours through the night, constantly through the evenings for 6 whole months, he only started to slow his feeds down after 6 months.
> I didn't give up even though I was exhausted most of the time, I didn't switch to fomula just to make him sleep through the night like people were constantly telling me to, I gave up alcohol and caffeine for months, I fed on demand, I gave up nights out, days out, I gave that whole year to my DS.
> He is tall, healthy and strong and that is down to me and my hard work.
> It was the hardest thing I have ever done but the most rewarding.
> 
> And that is not to say anything negative about FF, if I couldn't have BF I would have FF of course, I was FF myself, I both FF and BF from DS being 6 months to 13 months so I have nothing against FF and there is a place for FF.
> 
> Yes I was lucky in that my DS could latch on but my 2 SILs both wanted to BF and switched to FF on the first day without really trying, it is so easy to give up and the pressure is on you to give up, you do hear a lot of flimsy excuses (besides the rarer genuine excuses) so I will accept congratulations for not giving up when the odds are against BF (as shown by it being so much in the minority nowadays).
> 
> Karen
> x
> 
> I kept my DS alive by feeding him a bottle as he couldn't feed himself as he couldn't even hold the bottle the moment he was born :rolleyes:Click to expand...

But It *does *feel like an achievement to do that and something to rightly be proud of and feel good about, and for those mummies who that is important to, a real motivator. I can see what you're saying, but it's pretty deflating to be told that feeling that is unimportant or irrelevant, especially when someone has kept at it through adversity, because wanting to know that you have done it through your own body is important to you. If that makes sense.
So, congratulations to everyone eh?


----------



## Drazic<3

aliss said:


> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(

I struggle to express one bottle, so I really can't even imagine. Must be relentless. Genuine congrats to you chic!


----------



## Nats21

karenm28 said:


> PS If anyone can tell me how to do the quotes properly I would appreciate it! x

Press the quote button on the persons quote you want to say xx


----------



## littleone2010

I breastfed for the first 6 weeks, I really struggled, and had a low weight baby so felt under pressure for her to gain weight (i dont know if that sounds silly) 

She was such a hungry baby too that I would breast feed (im guessing it was natures way of getting my supply up) im not exaggerating, FOR HOURS at a time all night most nights.. I was getting so down about it, then I got kidney stones (which was awful!) and couldnt give lo my milk because of the medication I was taking.

I tried to express to keep up my supply but Im sorry to say I gave up and wish I had some more support.
So Longwindedly lol... I congratulate solely to encourage people like me, as I didnt have much support to continue to breastfeed IF THEY WANT TO.. But i suppose 'congratulate' inst really the right word id use, I 'support' them. that would be better. We all do the best job we know how, and I try and be supportive of my FF mum friends in exactly the same way... I think we all just need support being new mummies to be honest!!! its such a learning curve!


----------



## aliss

Drazic<3 said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(
> 
> I struggle to express one bottle, so I really can't even imagine. Must be relentless. Genuine congrats to you chic!Click to expand...

Thank you! Well, it was easier when I blew $1800 on a Medela Symphony! EEK!!!


----------



## Drazic<3

aliss said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(
> 
> I struggle to express one bottle, so I really can't even imagine. Must be relentless. Genuine congrats to you chic!Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you! Well, it was easier when I blew $1800 on a Medela Symphony! EEK!!!Click to expand...

Blimey! I've got a swing and I thought that was pricy!


----------



## leelee

huggermomof2 said:


> i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all

I think its because some people had their heart set on BF and couldn't for whatever reason. It takes time for people to get over that. I have come to terms with not being able to but when my LO was very young I might have gotten very defensive.


----------



## emsiee

huggermomof2 said:


> i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all

I think its because some people sometimes question you on your choice! Ive seen it a lot on here


----------



## karenm28

> Karenm28 - just press the little purple 'quote' button at the right hand corner of the post, or copy and paste the text into these....

Yeah I did it - Thanks! The quote button wasn't working for me but the copy paste thing did (sorry OT!) 
x


----------



## aliss

Drazic<3 said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(
> 
> I struggle to express one bottle, so I really can't even imagine. Must be relentless. Genuine congrats to you chic!Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you! Well, it was easier when I blew $1800 on a Medela Symphony! EEK!!!Click to expand...
> 
> Blimey! I've got a swing and I thought that was pricy!Click to expand...

Haha! Well my LO could not be put to the breast because of his birth injury so we were in it for the long haul! That and a very grumpy post-partum woman would have chucked OH out the window had he not catered to my demands!!! BF was important to him too. LOVE HIM


----------



## Drazic<3

aliss said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(
> 
> I struggle to express one bottle, so I really can't even imagine. Must be relentless. Genuine congrats to you chic!Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you! Well, it was easier when I blew $1800 on a Medela Symphony! EEK!!!Click to expand...
> 
> Blimey! I've got a swing and I thought that was pricy!Click to expand...
> 
> Haha! Well my LO could not be put to the breast because of his birth injury so we were in it for the long haul! That and a very grumpy post-partum woman would have chucked OH out the window had he not catered to my demands!!! BF was important to him too. LOVE HIMClick to expand...

You both have done amazing. :)


----------



## ellie

wow yeah, exclusive expressing must be so bloody hard! i hate doing it even for 10 mins and it could take me 2 or 3 go's to fill a bottle ... blimey. Hats off!

And I'd just like to add a congratulations to everyone really, for being good mums and working damned hard at it :flower:


----------



## AlwaysPraying

bathbabe said:


> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.Click to expand...
> 
> I think she was probs joking...Click to expand...

Amazingly it's not that much of a stretch. The amount of toxins and poisons inthe world that we ingest are being fed directly to our babies through the boob. You don't think technology will be able to come up with something that doesn't include those things? It's happening before you know it. 

Between car exhaust, factory fumes, perfumes soap and wash chemicals, additives to food the amount that we pass along in breast milk is maddening.


----------



## AP

aliss said:


> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(

'Fraid i might attempt it this time, even if its a full termer!! :haha:
See how long that lasts, expressing, sterilising and 2 kids....... pfft!


----------



## NG09

AlwaysPraying said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.Click to expand...
> 
> I think she was probs joking...Click to expand...
> 
> Amazingly it's not that much of a stretch. The amount of toxins and poisons inthe world that we ingest are being fed directly to our babies through the boob. You don't think technology will be able to come up with something that doesn't include those things? It's happening before you know it.
> 
> Between car exhaust, factory fumes, perfumes soap and wash chemicals, additives to food the amount that we pass along in breast milk is maddening.Click to expand...

That's a valid point, I hadn't thought of that!


----------



## NG09

sb22 said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(
> 
> 'Fraid i might attempt it this time, even if its a full termer!! :haha:
> See how long that lasts, expressing, sterilising and 2 kids.......Click to expand...

You know, I have actually been toying with the idea if I ever have another one after all the troubles I've had with LO on formula!


----------



## aliss

sb22 said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> Those of us who did exclusive expressing only do it out of necessity for sure, cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Oh man it was brutal :(
> 
> 'Fraid i might attempt it this time, even if its a full termer!! :haha:
> See how long that lasts, expressing, sterilising and 2 kids.......Click to expand...

Haha you crazy!!!!! Well, at least get the Medela Symphony!


----------



## AP

hahahaha omg i couldnt get that lol. Unless i win the euromillions :rofl:


----------



## Missy86

I will force myself to bf if I have another Lo, it shouldnt be like that though should it.
To me it was the worst thing about motherhood I hated it but I will try for my baby


----------



## beachlover1

Mum2b_Claire said:


> I think because it IS best for *babies* and anyone who works hard to make sure their baby gets breastmilk deserves all the congratulations they get.

this made me a little riled to be honest. My LO was 5 weeks early, 5lb in weight and couldnt latch on, I had a c section (placenta Praevia), delayed milk and I and many nurses ended up squeezing my nipples til they bled as we squeezed out colostrum and put it in a syringe. I tried and tried and tried to BF Freddie. My milk never really came in and even then I pumped and pumped day after day after day to give him BM by syringe. He ended up on formula as i realise i would rather have a prem baby gain weight than wither away as i tried to force the BM out. I know breast is best but I worked hard too even with formula. Not everyone has a choice for one reason or another and formula or BM, a thriving baby should be congratulated not a breastfeeding mum!


----------



## Drazic<3

AlwaysPraying said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.Click to expand...
> 
> I think she was probs joking...Click to expand...
> 
> Amazingly it's not that much of a stretch. The amount of toxins and poisons inthe world that we ingest are being fed directly to our babies through the boob. You don't think technology will be able to come up with something that doesn't include those things? It's happening before you know it.
> 
> Between car exhaust, factory fumes, perfumes soap and wash chemicals, additives to food the amount that we pass along in breast milk is maddening.Click to expand...

Not unless they manage to design a milk which is somehow up to 135 more sanitary than the air we breathe, and doesn't contaminate at all through production and consumption in that very air. Oh, and stop the children breathing said air. Interesting point though, made me google! lol. 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=earth-talks-breast-feeding


----------



## xemmax

AlwaysPraying said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that our bodies are designed to feed our babies.Click to expand...
> 
> I think she was probs joking...Click to expand...
> 
> Amazingly it's not that much of a stretch. The amount of toxins and poisons inthe world that we ingest are being fed directly to our babies through the boob. You don't think technology will be able to come up with something that doesn't include those things? It's happening before you know it.
> 
> Between car exhaust, factory fumes, perfumes soap and wash chemicals, additives to food the amount that we pass along in breast milk is maddening.Click to expand...

but a baby will still be exposed to the majority of those things, and all of them once it starts on solids. so not sure that matters? i think it's way too much of a stretch to imagine a formula which is more beneficial to a baby than breastmilk. surely? 

not intending on arguing, but it's an interesting topic!


----------



## Drazic<3

beachlover1 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I think because it IS best for *babies* and anyone who works hard to make sure their baby gets breastmilk deserves all the congratulations they get.
> 
> this made me a little riled to be honest. My LO was 5 weeks early, 5lb in weight and couldnt latch on, I had a c section (placenta Praevia), delayed milk and I and many nurses ended up squeezing my nipples til they bled as we squeezed out colostrum and put it in a syringe. I tried and tried and tried to BF Freddie. My milk never really came in and even then I pumped and pumped day after day after day to give him BM by syringe. He ended up on formula as i realise i would rather have a prem baby gain weight than wither away as i tried to force the BM out. I know breast is best but I worked hard too even with formula. Not everyone has a choice for one reason or another and formula or BM, a thriving baby should be congratulated not a breastfeeding mum!Click to expand...

I'd still congratulate you for doing the very best you could, and for getting as far as humanly possible then making the right choice for you and your baby hun.


----------



## Foogirl

I guess this is aimed slightly at me as I did this on here just the other day. Although specifically I was congratulating a very young mum who had had a bad experience in public.

My reasons for doing so were simply that it is a huge decision to make and more especially for a young mum as statistically they are less likely to try and continue with it. Making the decision to breastfeed when all your friends will give you stick, your family may well put pressure on you as many do, and then face the challenges that breastfeeding can have without the support of those around you - especially as a teenager who is trying to adjust to the world of parenthood at the same time, is incredibly difficult.

Plus, as Lu says, by making that choice, you place the full responsibility for feeding including night feeds etc, on yourself. You are choosing to tie yourself fully to your child until they are weaned, and that is a huge thing to do - again especially for many younger mums. It was the one part of breastfeeding I found incredibly difficult.

Of course formula feeding can be challenging in a different way. And there is all the faff of bottles and sterilising (something I just couldn't have been bothered with!!) But if your whole family, and perhaps your friends are behind your decision, you will have support with these problems whereas often BFers have to fight against it.

Someone said anyone who says FFing is easy obviously hasn't done it. I would say the reverse is also true. FFing can bring emotional stress because of feeding issues, BFing can bring the same emotional stresses, but on top of that you have many physically painful issues to deal with too. I don't suppose there is really an answer to which is "easier" as the challenges for both are to dissimilar. But I would ask everyone to consider this. How many mums start off FFing and give up to switch to BFing because they can't get their baby to feed?:shrug:

Of course it is right to congratulate someone for sticking with BFing, but that shouldn't offend those who choose not to. I often see congratulations for women who choose cloth nappies or baby wearing or co-sleeping etc, I do none of these but aren't in the least bit offended by that sentiment. Similarly if someone was under massive pressure to breastfeed from everyone around them but chose not to for their own reasons, I'd congratulate them too.



Celesse said:


> Another thing kinda on the same thing. I often find that FF mum's feel the need to explain to me why they are FF

This happened to me all the time. I never once asked why because frankly, I couldn't care less what someone elses reasons are for choosing to FF. But they all seemed to want to tell me:shrug:



AppleBlossom said:


> Probably because if you don't, people will just assume you couldn't be bothered trying :shrug:

I think its more that you assume they will assume that. Most people just aren't interested!



sb22 said:


> I think im the only one who actually likes exclusively expressing :rofl: but im guessing thats because i didnt have alex home - omg, that was hard and i gave up after 3 weeks!
> 15 weeks in total though :)

It gave us something to do to feel useful didn't it. Made us feel like mummies!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

beachlover1 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> I think because it IS best for *babies* and anyone who works hard to make sure their baby gets breastmilk deserves all the congratulations they get.
> 
> this made me a little riled to be honest. My LO was 5 weeks early, 5lb in weight and couldnt latch on, I had a c section (placenta Praevia), delayed milk and I and many nurses ended up squeezing my nipples til they bled as we squeezed out colostrum and put it in a syringe. I tried and tried and tried to BF Freddie. My milk never really came in and even then I pumped and pumped day after day after day to give him BM by syringe. He ended up on formula as i realise i would rather have a prem baby gain weight than wither away as i tried to force the BM out. I know breast is best but I worked hard too even with formula. Not everyone has a choice for one reason or another and formula or BM, a thriving baby should be congratulated not a breastfeeding mum!Click to expand...

Sorry - I don't understand why that would make you riled.
You tried your best to give your baby breastmilk and when it did not work out, of course you gave formula. You had no option by the sounds of it. Neither did I with my baby who refused to latch. I don't expect to be congratulated for feeding formula instead, as what else could I do?

I agree with freckleonear's comments btw...I think she is one of the nicest people on here and what a shame people chose to interpret her words in the way they did. :nope:


----------



## Jchihuahua

Mum2b_Claire said:


> I agree with freckleonear's comments btw...I think she is one of the nicest people on here and what a shame people chose to interpret her words in the way they did. :nope:

I agree with this x


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

leelee said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all
> 
> I think its because some people had their heart set on BF and couldn't for whatever reason. It takes time for people to get over that. I have come to terms with not being able to but when my LO was very young I might have gotten very defensive.Click to expand...

Exactly what she said. Because it's not that black and white. So many, like myself weighed up the pros and cons, chose to BF....and then couldn't.


----------



## AP

Foogirl said:


> I guess this is aimed slightly at me as I did this on here just the other day. Although specifically I was congratulating a very young mum who had had a bad experience in public.

So glad you said this, its been burning holes in my fingers because I knew specifically what you meant and knew the thread was referring to that!!!!!

This thread has been interesting though, rather than debating and arguing a few of us are learning things from each other, our choices, methods and how things work for us :) See i like all that!!!


----------



## Missy86

Dream.A.Dream said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all
> 
> I think its because some people had their heart set on BF and couldn't for whatever reason. It takes time for people to get over that. I have come to terms with not being able to but when my LO was very young I might have gotten very defensive.Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly what she said. Because it's not that black and white. So many, like myself weighed up the pros and cons, chose to BF....and then couldn't.Click to expand...

Yes it was a total shock when I couldnt bfeed, I had never even thought of ffeeding


----------



## Mrs Dot

louandivy said:


> Heavencanwait said:
> 
> 
> I had never experienced prejudice or judging about BF over FF until I came to this forum. The girls in my NCT group are all brilliant, and none of us has ever commented on it, although some of us BF and some of us FF. We are just happy to take care of our babies however we see fit.
> *And it's true that breast is best. But only until the guidelines change again* .....
> 
> You don't seriously think they will change it do you? It is a pretty inescapable fact that _*our bodies are designed to feed our babies*_.Click to expand...

Sorry but not ALL bodies are - remember that some people on here can't bf for lots of different medical reasons. I HAD to ff or else my baby wouldn't get fed!


----------



## Foogirl

sb22 said:


> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> I guess this is aimed slightly at me as I did this on here just the other day. Although specifically I was congratulating a very young mum who had had a bad experience in public.
> 
> So glad you said this, its been burning holes in my fingers because I knew specifically what you meant and knew the thread was referring to that!!!!!
> 
> This thread has been interesting though, rather than debating and arguing a few of us are learning things from each other, our choices, methods and how things work for us :) See i like all that!!!Click to expand...

I know and they blimmin closed it before I could explain myself. Ta muchly for jumping in though - I appreciate that!

It has been interesting. When I saw it at so many pages I thought there would be trubble at t'mill, but so far we've all been very civilised.

I never realised how frustrating it would be to have to keep trying bottles and milks etc, until you spoke about it before. It's so tough to have to go through that. Although I'd have loved the option of having different "teats" :haha:


----------



## AP

Its alright Foogirl, they're all in a MASSIVE box!

- 30 disposable teats for preemies just in case a preemie friend wants em
- a million zillion bottles for the new baby too!

So its win win now :rofl:


----------



## PrayinForBaby

I havent read all of this, but I am proud to feed my baby formula, because my breastmilk was basically poisoning my baby between the infections we passed back and forth, she lost almost a lb in weight and had severe jaundice to where she was readmitted to the hospital over it. So yes, I'm proud that I was more inclined to keep her healthy rather than keep my own wants by breastfeeding her. I put her first and I am proud to say that I made a mature decision about it.


----------



## NG09

Foogirl said:


> I guess this is aimed slightly at me as I did this on here just the other day. Although specifically I was congratulating a very young mum who had had a bad experience in public.
> 
> My reasons for doing so were simply that it is a huge decision to make and more especially for a young mum as statistically they are less likely to try and continue with it. Making the decision to breastfeed when all your friends will give you stick, your family may well put pressure on you as many do, and then face the challenges that breastfeeding can have without the support of those around you - especially as a teenager who is trying to adjust to the world of parenthood at the same time, is incredibly difficult.
> 
> Plus, as Lu says, by making that choice, you place the full responsibility for feeding including night feeds etc, on yourself. You are choosing to tie yourself fully to your child until they are weaned, and that is a huge thing to do - again especially for many younger mums. It was the one part of breastfeeding I found incredibly difficult.
> 
> Of course formula feeding can be challenging in a different way. And there is all the faff of bottles and sterilising (something I just couldn't have been bothered with!!) But if your whole family, and perhaps your friends are behind your decision, you will have support with these problems whereas often BFers have to fight against it.
> 
> Someone said anyone who says FFing is easy obviously hasn't done it. I would say the reverse is also true. FFing can bring emotional stress because of feeding issues, BFing can bring the same emotional stresses, but on top of that you have many physically painful issues to deal with too. I don't suppose there is really an answer to which is "easier" as the challenges for both are to dissimilar. But I would ask everyone to consider this. How many mums start off FFing and give up to switch to BFing because they can't get their baby to feed?:shrug:
> 
> Of course it is right to congratulate someone for sticking with BFing, but that shouldn't offend those who choose not to. I often see congratulations for women who choose cloth nappies or baby wearing or co-sleeping etc, I do none of these but aren't in the least bit offended by that sentiment. Similarly if someone was under massive pressure to breastfeed from everyone around them but chose not to for their own reasons, I'd congratulate them too.

Seriously this thraed was not aimed at you, I saw it yesterday and it got me thinking, I couldn't even remember who had said it in the 1st place!! 

In all honesty after all the trouble LO and I have had FF if the option was there now to BF I would def be giving it a go!!!


----------



## Lightworker

oops sorry leelee and dream-a-dream, that comment referred to moms that chose their feeding method, not those whose decision was taken out of their hands for whatever reason x


----------



## AppleBlossom

bump_wanted said:


> Sam9kids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. *There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect*, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> Cant even be mithered saying what i think about this!:dohh:
> 
> Even though a get an awful lot .....I personally dont need any congratulating or praise from anyone about any part of parenting
> 
> Looking at my kids and who and how they are is all need to know im doing good
> 
> As for the topic, as long as a baby is fed then thats all that matters :flower:xClick to expand...
> 
> the line in bold is the most offensive thing ive read on here.
> 
> i actually have no words...Click to expand...

Sory if the thread has moved on now but I have to agree with above poster. I generally don't get offended by anything people say about FFing but that is probably one of the most offensive things I have ever read on here, if not the most. Maybe it wasn't intended to offend, if so the OP needs to seriously think before they type...


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.


----------



## Lu28

AppleBlossom said:


> bump_wanted said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam9kids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. *There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect*, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> Cant even be mithered saying what i think about this!:dohh:
> 
> Even though a get an awful lot .....I personally dont need any congratulating or praise from anyone about any part of parenting
> 
> Looking at my kids and who and how they are is all need to know im doing good
> 
> As for the topic, as long as a baby is fed then thats all that matters :flower:xClick to expand...
> 
> the line in bold is the most offensive thing ive read on here.
> 
> i actually have no words...Click to expand...
> 
> Sory if the thread has moved on now but I have to agree with above poster. I generally don't get offended by anything people say about FFing but that is probably one of the most offensive things I have ever read on here, if not the most. Maybe it wasn't intended to offend, if so the OP needs to seriously think before they type...Click to expand...

She has already apologised if she upset anyone :thumbup: I understand exactly what she was saying, just that with bfing you have the option of giving up and moving onto formula so sometimes a well done for keeping going is in order. Its not like you can give up on formula feeding.


----------



## Leesie

AlwaysPraying said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> The amount of toxins and poisons inthe world that we ingest are being fed directly to our babies through the boob.
> Between car exhaust, factory fumes, perfumes soap and wash chemicals, additives to food the amount that we pass along in breast milk is maddening.
> 
> This is pure scare-mongering.
> 
> For anyone whp would like to educate themselves as to the *facts* about toxins being passed through breastmilk here's a link to Kellymom which is a research-based site: https://www.kellymom.com/health/chemical/env-contaminants.html
> Even taking into account environmental contaminants and toxins, the benefits of BF'ing still outweigh the negatives.Click to expand...


----------



## NG09

Mum2b_Claire said:


> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.

I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:


----------



## Missy86

Mum2b_Claire said:


> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.

Thats not much of an arguement


----------



## NG09

AppleBlossom said:


> bump_wanted said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam9kids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> I find it really encouraging when someone congratulates me for breastfeeding, not because it makes me feel like a better mother but because it acknowledges the pain and difficulty and reassures me that it is all worth it. In a society where breastfeeding is the norm then nobody would even think of offering congratulations, but our society sets women up to fail, so sadly breastfeeding has become an achievement rather than a normal event.
> 
> You can't really congratulate someone for formula feeding because it's just the bare minimum needed for survival. *There's no alternative to formula apart from neglect*, it would be like congratulating a mother for changing her baby's dirty nappies. So yes, it may be hard work (I'm certainly far too lazy to formula feed!) but to congratulate someone for formula feeding itself would be ridiculous. Of course, formula feeding mummies can still be congratulated for being wonderful mothers to their babies. :)
> 
> Cant even be mithered saying what i think about this!:dohh:
> 
> Even though a get an awful lot .....I personally dont need any congratulating or praise from anyone about any part of parenting
> 
> Looking at my kids and who and how they are is all need to know im doing good
> 
> As for the topic, as long as a baby is fed then thats all that matters :flower:xClick to expand...
> 
> the line in bold is the most offensive thing ive read on here.
> 
> i actually have no words...Click to expand...
> 
> Sory if the thread has moved on now but I have to agree with above poster. I generally don't get offended by anything people say about FFing but that is probably one of the most offensive things I have ever read on here, if not the most. Maybe it wasn't intended to offend, if so the OP needs to seriously think before they type...Click to expand...


She already apologised hun


----------



## louandivy

NG09 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...

appleblossom brought it up, mum2be just stated what the poster had actually meant :shrug:


----------



## AppleBlossom

Ok, sorry, I missed the apology


----------



## NG09

louandivy said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> appleblossom brought it up, mum2be just stated what the poster had actually meant :shrug:Click to expand...

I know, I've posted on both


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

NG09 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...

It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Missy86 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> Thats not much of an arguementClick to expand...

Eh?


----------



## louandivy

After reading through this thread I still believe that in a country where breastfeeding rates are extremely low women have every right to be congratulated, and I see no reason why that should offend formula feeders as it is just one small aspect of parenthood. Do disposable nappy users (like myself) get offended when they see a cloth nappy user being congratulated for being environmentally friendly? Nope. I never realised how ridiculously touchy the issue of BF vs FF was until I became a mother myself.


----------



## NG09

Mum2b_Claire said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.Click to expand...

Because it comes across to some people that if you FF it's because you can't be arsed to BF so in effect you have to FF baby rather than let LO starve to death. Can't imagine this is the case for anyone deciding to FF that is why it's offensive, to me anyway.


----------



## AppleBlossom

I didn't like the way FF and neglect were both used in the same sentence. That's what I found offensive. Anyway, sorry to bring it up, should prob read threads properly before I post...


----------



## NG09

louandivy said:


> After reading through this thread I still believe that in a country where breastfeeding rates are extremely low women have every right to be congratulated, and I see no reason why that should offend formula feeders as it is just one small aspect of parenthood. Do disposable nappy users (like myself) get offended when they see a cloth nappy user being congratulated for being environmentally friendly? Nope. I never realised how ridiculously touchy the issue of BF vs FF was until I became a mother myself.

Who's offended by it though?? I didn't start the thread because I was offended, I was just interested.


----------



## Missy86

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> Thats not much of an arguementClick to expand...
> 
> Eh?Click to expand...

I agree with what NG09 said in her post


----------



## louandivy

Alot of people in this thread have said that its not fair that BF is congratulated


----------



## leelee

AppleBlossom said:


> I didn't like the way FF and neglect were both used in the same sentence. That's what I found offensive. Anyway, sorry to bring it up, should prob read threads properly before I post...

I can se why people get offended with the statement. To be fair, Freckleonear did aplogise and said that no offence was meant and I do really believe her. However, I think that the post was very badly worded.


----------



## xemmax

NG09 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.Click to expand...
> 
> Because it comes across to some people that if you FF it's because you can't be arsed to BF so in effect you have to FF baby rather than let LO starve to death. Can't imagine this is the case for anyone deciding to FF that is why it's offensive, to me anyway.Click to expand...

i think the meaning was misconstrued, it shouldn't cause offense, she was only saying there is no alternative to formula feeding if you can't/don't wish to breastfeed. it's true... :shrug:


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

I don't need congratulating. My 'reward' is seeing a happy,healthy,bright,independant,thoughtful and loving 2 year old (nearly 2). And he was mostly FF. Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
xx


----------



## freckleonear

I have already apologised but will do so again, I absolutely didn't mean to upset anyone. What I meant was that if you find breastfeeding too hard then you can give up but you cannot give up formula feeding. I certainly wasn't connecting formula with neglect, the only neglect would be if you did not feed your baby and of course that is not the case of anyone here! Again, sorry for the bad wording.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

NG09 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.Click to expand...
> 
> Because it comes across to some people that if you FF it's because you can't be arsed to BF so in effect you have to FF baby rather than let LO starve to death. Can't imagine this is the case for anyone deciding to FF that is why it's offensive, to me anyway.Click to expand...

Well, if you either choose not to BF or you or your baby can't, then you have to FF, or your baby will starve. There is no third option that is lesser than FF, so it is the last option on the list.


----------



## bekkie

sjminimac said:


> i might be completely naive but everyone keeps saying bf is not the norm and 'frowned upon', who by? I haven't come across anyone being negative or anything in the 10 weeks i've been bf so it seems a bit over the top to say that x

then you've been very lucky - some of us have endured many comments, even by those close to us (for example my MIL constantly made/makes remarks about how often I was feeding, how long he nursed for, etc) and started getting the "you're STILL breastfeeding??" comments at 3 months.

I don't understand why anyone would take offense to a BFing mother being congratulated for sticking with it, or successfully weaning off of topping up with formula. I know I was very proud when we were able to exclusively breast feed and it was encouraging to come on here and get support for it. If a FF mommy posted about how she finally got a specific formula to work, I'm sure she'd be congratulated as well.

I will continue to congratulate mommies who are doing whats best for their babies, regardless of what that is in their situation.


----------



## Missy86

louandivy said:


> Alot of people in this thread have said that its not fair that BF is congratulated

I think I should be congratulated for bfeeding for as long as I did, but hey ho we cant always get what we want


----------



## msfoxymax

And here we go again............................


----------



## louandivy

bekkie said:


> sjminimac said:
> 
> 
> i might be completely naive but everyone keeps saying bf is not the norm and 'frowned upon', who by? I haven't come across anyone being negative or anything in the 10 weeks i've been bf so it seems a bit over the top to say that x
> 
> then you've been very lucky - some of us have endured many comments, even by those close to us (my MIL constantly made remarks about how often I was feeding, how long he nursed for, etc) and started getting the "you're STILL breastfeeding??" comments at 3 months.
> 
> I don't understand why anyone would take offense to a BFing mother being congratulated for sticking with it. If a FF mommy posted about how she finally got a specific formula to work, I'm sure she'd be congratulated as well.Click to expand...

My grandma calls it 'disgusting'. You can imagine how great that makes me feel!


----------



## leelee

louandivy said:


> Alot of people in this thread have said that its not fair that BF is congratulated

I have to say I don't have a problem with people that BF'ing being congratulated. When I speak to someone who is/has BF I always say that I think it is a real achievement, but I suppose I would be more likely to praise someone if they struggled at the beginning. For example, I have a friend that BF and it was the most natural thing in the world. I would always say to her that it must be a great feeling to know that she can feed her son, but I wouldn't feel the need to congratulate her. I would more congratulate another friend who had to exclusively express for months and sometimes was able to BF depending on the mood of the child. That took a lot of dedication and perseverance.

I'm not saying the former friend wasn't dedicated -it's just that it was so natural to her, she said it didn't seem like much of an effort compared to FF.


----------



## bekkie

louandivy said:


> My grandma calls it 'disgusting'. You can imagine how great that makes me feel!

that's so unfortunate :hugs:


----------



## NG09

Mum2b_Claire said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.Click to expand...
> 
> Because it comes across to some people that if you FF it's because you can't be arsed to BF so in effect you have to FF baby rather than let LO starve to death. Can't imagine this is the case for anyone deciding to FF that is why it's offensive, to me anyway.Click to expand...
> 
> Well, if you either choose not to BF or you or your baby can't, then you have to FF, or your baby will starve. There is no third option that is lesser than FF, so it is the last option on the list.Click to expand...

I think it's more the way it was worded. Which again the poster has apologised for already twice. No point debating it and making her feel bad, she clearly didn't mean to cause offence.


----------



## leelee

freckleonear said:


> I have already apologised but will do so again, I absolutely didn't mean to upset anyone. What I meant was that if you find breastfeeding too hard then you can give up but you cannot give up formula feeding. I certainly wasn't connecting formula with neglect, the only neglect would be if you did not feed your baby and of course that is not the case of anyone here! Again, sorry for the bad wording.

:hugs:


----------



## hancake100

I have not read through all of this I just wanted to put my opinion across that either way you feed your baby is fine. I know bf is highly recommended but not everyone can do it and therefor shouldnt feel bad because they are ff their baby. 

When I was pregnant I was open minded and knew I would give bf ago and really wouldnt know how it or I would feel, I knew it was the best option so I wanted to give it my best shot. I bf for 3-4days then one day Ellie just stopped taking my milk and it was so tough, we had to ff feed her in the end. But in that time I was still trying to bf her and I would use the pump. I ended up getting mastitis (worse than giving birth,lol) and she still refused my milk and it all got too much and I finaly gave in. 

It didnt end there though has she had colic and was tried with 3 different milks before we found the right one. 

I found bf and ff equally as frustrating as each other to be honest.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

I think when some people see the words 'formula' and 'neglect' in the same sentence they stop being able to think properly about the posters' actual intention. That's not her problem, that's theirs.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

NG09 said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.Click to expand...
> 
> Because it comes across to some people that if you FF it's because you can't be arsed to BF so in effect you have to FF baby rather than let LO starve to death. Can't imagine this is the case for anyone deciding to FF that is why it's offensive, to me anyway.Click to expand...
> 
> Well, if you either choose not to BF or you or your baby can't, then you have to FF, or your baby will starve. There is no third option that is lesser than FF, so it is the last option on the list.Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's more the way it was worded. Which again the poster has apologised for already twice. No point debating it and making her feel bad, she clearly didn't mean to cause offence.Click to expand...

I highly doubt I am making her feel bad - I am trying to help people understand what she really meant.


----------



## NG09

msfoxymax said:


> And here we go again............................

Not a chance, I'll request the thread be closed if it goes a bad road. If a bunch of adults can't talk about something without it becoming ridiculous I'm not going to be responsible for allowing the thread I started to continue.


----------



## NG09

Mum2b_Claire said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> What is the alternative to formula though, if you can't breastfeed? The only alternative I can think of is not feeding your baby, which like freckle said, would be neglect.
> 
> I'm not being funny but what's the purpose of dragging this up? The person who posted it apologised if it came across badly, end of. I really don't want this thread to go badly as we have all been civil up until now so can we drop it? :flow:Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't me who dragged it up. And my question was a genuine, civil one. I'm interested to know why freckle's comments were offensive.Click to expand...
> 
> Because it comes across to some people that if you FF it's because you can't be arsed to BF so in effect you have to FF baby rather than let LO starve to death. Can't imagine this is the case for anyone deciding to FF that is why it's offensive, to me anyway.Click to expand...
> 
> Well, if you either choose not to BF or you or your baby can't, then you have to FF, or your baby will starve. There is no third option that is lesser than FF, so it is the last option on the list.Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's more the way it was worded. Which again the poster has apologised for already twice. No point debating it and making her feel bad, she clearly didn't mean to cause offence.Click to expand...
> 
> I highly doubt I am making her feel bad - I am trying to help people understand what she really meant.Click to expand...

We do now.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Good :)


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

I think BF and FF get 'frowned upon'. Both sides get horrible looks and comments. I have been told I am selfish, feeding Aidan poison and that I didn't try hard enough. Everysingle aspect of parenting has people who look down on it and thing their way is better. I just let it go over my head mostly now, as I don't have time for closed minded people. So BF/FF mums ignore the negativity and carry on doing what you feel is best for YOUR baby. Thats what I congrulate, mothers who strive to do the best for their children.
xx


----------



## Foogirl

Aidan's Mummy said:


> Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
> xx

Going to play devils advocate and use this comment to make a point - don't take it at all personally please!

Does this mean that someone who is raising an unhealthy child hasn't succeeded in being a parent? Sometime children can be unhealthy no matter what a parent does...... 

See how this could be construed as being offensive?

But did Aidan's Mummy write that comment with that thought in mind? No of course she didn't. She simply was congratulating parents who have raised healthy children however they were fed. 

Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:


----------



## louandivy

Foogirl said:


> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:

this this this a thousand times this!


----------



## NG09

Foogirl said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
> xx
> 
> Going to play devils advocate and use this comment to make a point - don't take it at all personally please!
> 
> Does this mean that someone who is raising an unhealthy child hasn't succeeded in being a parent? Sometime children can be unhealthy no matter what a parent does......
> 
> See how this could be construed as being offensive?
> 
> But did Aidan's Mummy write that comment with that thought in mind? No of course she didn't. She simply was congratulating parents who have raised healthy children however they were fed.
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:Click to expand...

Not really TBH.


----------



## msfoxymax

NG09 said:


> msfoxymax said:
> 
> 
> And here we go again............................
> 
> Not a chance, I'll request the thread be closed if it goes a bad road. If a bunch of adults can't talk about something without it becoming ridiculous I'm not going to be responsible for allowing the thread I started to continue.Click to expand...

Thank god cos the last thread was an eye opener :shock::shock::shock:


----------



## Lu28

Foogirl said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
> xx
> 
> Going to play devils advocate and use this comment to make a point - don't take it at all personally please!
> 
> Does this mean that someone who is raising an unhealthy child hasn't succeeded in being a parent? Sometime children can be unhealthy no matter what a parent does......
> 
> See how this could be construed as being offensive?
> 
> But did Aidan's Mummy write that comment with that thought in mind? No of course she didn't. She simply was congratulating parents who have raised healthy children however they were fed.
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:Click to expand...

Well said :thumbup:


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Foogirl said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
> xx
> 
> Going to play devils advocate and use this comment to make a point - don't take it at all personally please!
> 
> Does this mean that someone who is raising an unhealthy child hasn't succeeded in being a parent? Sometime children can be unhealthy no matter what a parent does......
> 
> See how this could be construed as being offensive?
> 
> But did Aidan's Mummy write that comment with that thought in mind? No of course she didn't. She simply was congratulating parents who have raised healthy children however they were fed.
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:Click to expand...

Good point :). And that's exactly what I meant. :D
xx


----------



## NG09

msfoxymax said:


> NG09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> msfoxymax said:
> 
> 
> And here we go again............................
> 
> Not a chance, I'll request the thread be closed if it goes a bad road. If a bunch of adults can't talk about something without it becoming ridiculous I'm not going to be responsible for allowing the thread I started to continue.Click to expand...
> 
> Thank god cos the last thread was an eye opener :shock::shock::shock:Click to expand...

I know!!! lol


----------



## Scampie

Bloody well said foogirl!

Well done to all mummies out there, cos we have all struggled in some way or another to raise our babies. Thats what being a mummy is about.


----------



## AppleBlossom

louandivy said:


> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:
> 
> this this this a thousand times this!Click to expand...

:thumbup:


----------



## xemmax

Foogirl said:


> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
> xx
> 
> Going to play devils advocate and use this comment to make a point - don't take it at all personally please!
> 
> Does this mean that someone who is raising an unhealthy child hasn't succeeded in being a parent? Sometime children can be unhealthy no matter what a parent does......
> 
> See how this could be construed as being offensive?
> 
> But did Aidan's Mummy write that comment with that thought in mind? No of course she didn't. She simply was congratulating parents who have raised healthy children however they were fed.
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:Click to expand...

yes, yes, yes! :thumbup:


----------



## NG09

NG09 said:


> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aidan's Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Yes BF is an achivement. But so is raising a healthy child regardless of how you feed.
> xx
> 
> Going to play devils advocate and use this comment to make a point - don't take it at all personally please!
> 
> Does this mean that someone who is raising an unhealthy child hasn't succeeded in being a parent? Sometime children can be unhealthy no matter what a parent does......
> 
> See how this could be construed as being offensive?
> 
> But did Aidan's Mummy write that comment with that thought in mind? No of course she didn't. She simply was congratulating parents who have raised healthy children however they were fed.
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:Click to expand...
> 
> Not really TBH.Click to expand...

I apologise for misreading your post before I quoted, put it down to being tired!! lol Yeah, I do see our point!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Foogirl said:


> We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:

:thumbup:


----------



## Missy86

Scampie said:


> Bloody well said foogirl!
> 
> Well done to all mummies out there, cos we have all struggled in some way or another to raise our babies. Thats what being a mummy is about.

:thumbup:


----------



## Kalah

I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)

I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.
I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:


----------



## aliss

Kalah said:


> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:

Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.


----------



## fluffpuffin

also I think people congratulate others for bf, because it is damn hard starting off - less sleep, no help with feeding, bleeding & cracked nipples - I dreaded every feed initially...I felt like throwing the towel in those early weeks, so I do feel like it is an achievement that i have persevered through all this


----------



## Kalah

aliss said:


> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...

I know, and I didn't mean it to start any arguments or anything or to be cruel, that's just how I feel about it.


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Think of it in a different way. What would happen if breastfeeding does affect the boobs and a lady stops because her self esteem gets really low which in turn causes depression. It would be in her babies nest interests to give up because if she is depressed her moods and behaviour will affect the baby. See what I mean hun, and I think that's what Aliss meant by you can't really call it becuase they may not be telling you all details 
xx


----------



## WW1

louandivy said:


> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> Congratulating one group does not mean you criticise another. We just all need to learn that not everything is about us!! :thumbup:
> 
> this this this a thousand times this!Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more!


----------



## mrsthomas623

Did not read the entire thread... but I can imagine how it went :haha:

My opinion is there is no problem congratulating a woman on breastfeeding, it is hard work. I wish I had known how hard it really is, maybe I would have been prepared for the pain. But I also understand why us FFing mommies feel criticized (at least on this website) we deal with a lot of crass comments from some bfing "extremist" as I like to call them. We all know breast is best but formula is not some horrible poison that is "one step above neglect." I will not let anyone make me feel like a crap mother for choosing formula.


----------



## AppleBlossom

The reason I stopped BFing was because I hated every second if it so much that I started to resent my own baby. She had a perfect latch, she was just so greedy that she never got enough milk from me and she would suck so hard to try and get more that I would sit sobbing in pain and she would just scream with hunger and frustration. It got to a point where my mental state was starting to get out of control. On one hand I was annoyed because I couldn't satisfy her hunger and on the other I was so angry about how much pain I was in I associated her with it and started hating her. I'm ashamed to admit that I ever resented her. I didn't mean too but it was a combination of a few things, BFing being the main problem, that made me feel that way. So I took the decision to stop. And it was the best thing I did for both of us. I started bonding with her a bit more (although I didn't fully bond with her until she was about 3 months old) and she was always contented with her feed. Resulting in not just a happier baby but a happier mummy. And people might call me a failure or tell me I was selfish but I look at her now, a bright, happy, healthy, beautiful little girl and I think back to the hell I went through BFing her and what I may have done had formula never have been an option and it scares me. Because I was so ready to leave. I was willing to wait till FOB had gone to work and just left her in the house and never come back. So I say to anyone who tries to tell me I didn't do right by my child to jog on. Because quite frankly, formula was the difference between my daughter having a mother and her having a mother who went awol. I don't find that selfish. But maybe that's just me


----------



## Nic1107

I think "congratulations" is an odd thing to say for BF-ing, not because it shouldn't be celebrated but just because, I dunno, congratulating someone is more like if they've won an award or got married or something. :lol: I don't know how to explain what I mean. But I definitely will happily give a "Well done!" to anyone who has persevered through struggles to BF! I've never experienced it myself but I imagine it's bloody hard. 

Sometimes I think people- not on this thread so much but in general- forget that it's _not_ always a choice to FF, and those of us who chose to BF, but didn't have the ability to carry out our choice, feel the lack of congratulations as a deep emptiness and sadness. Sort of like someone walking around saying "hello" to everyone in the room but you, ykwim? I've had to excuse myself from conversations about BFing, not because I wasn't happy for them, but because I was sad for us. Jealousy doesn't always feel like anger or pettiness- sometimes in feels like terrible sadness too. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't congratulate others if they want to, just explaining I guess why some FFers find it hard to overhear- and comments like "That's their problem if they're jealous" just make you feel like crap even more because no we're not just 'failures' (in our own minds) but 'petty, irrational failures' as well! :( 

Expressing for Carmen in the first few weeks was extremely hard. She fed hourly sometimes, and when it takes 20 minutes to pump and 20 minutes to feed, the rest of your day goes by in 20-minute rushed sequences of trying to get a shower, throw some food down your throat, and maaaaaybe get a nap! I couldn't do it for long, even with occasional formula feeds, so whenever I hear of someone who exclusively expresses I'm always like :shock: "That's incredible- you must been incredibly strong and patient and determined!"

:flower:


----------



## hivechild

Breastmilk is the natural way to feed an infant, but breastfeeding itself is a learned skill (and lost art to many) for mother and baby, and one that often does not come easy to new mothers and without testing you beyond limits you never knew you had. Of course, this is true of a lot of challenges faced in motherhood, but the discussion is focused on feeding at the moment, so I'll stick to that! 

That being said, I really do think that "succeeding" at breastfeeding is something to be proud of, and a triumph to be congratulated, but it's a very personal triumph. No one was walked over, and no one was kicked while they were down, no one else was hindered or competed against when a woman undertakes establishing, and continuing breastfeeding. It's not a game and no Us vs. Them. It's just a personal and private undertaking, through all of the hardships and challenges that many women face with breastfeeding.

Yes, there are hardships to be faced for some mothers in formula feeding, and there are a lot of inconveniences such as making up bottles and sterilizing etc., but I think that by and large, feeding formula is usually an easier (note: not easy) choice, especially in the beginning.

I also believe that it's fully possible to be proud of breastfeeding, and to encourage, promote and congratulate other women who breastfeed without being insulting toward women who formula feed whether by choice or circumstance. As above, it's not a score keeping game, and it is possible to believe that breastmilk is good and what nature has provided us with to nourish our babies, _*without*_ thinking that formula is bad because it's what man has provided us with to nourish our babies in lieu of breastmilk. It's rather upsetting that the automatic assumption is that if you encourage breastfeeding, that you think poorly of those who don't which in my case, most certainly is not true.


----------



## bekkie

hivechild said:


> It's rather upsetting that the automatic assumption is that if you encourage breastfeeding, that you think poorly of those who don't which in my case, most certainly is not true.

QFE

well said


----------



## RinnaRoo

Breast feeding is freggin hard! I think that any one that goes a solid week, let alone 24 months like some of these super moms on here, should be more than congratulated. Yes, formula feeding can also be hard. I had to go through 3 different formulas and two different bottles before I had success, but in my opinion, my breast feeding is an art that has to be learned by both mom and baby. :]


----------



## PrayinForBaby

Kalah said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I didn't mean it to start any arguments or anything or to be cruel, that's just how I feel about it.Click to expand...

I'm sorry, and I may be totally out of line, but is there anything wrong with you because you didn't get your mom's breastmilk? I think its pretty shitty to think less about your mom bc she didn't breastfeed you, no matter what her reason was. And its comments like that that get us formula feeding moms all in a frenzy! Even if I hadn't tried to breastfeed, just because I can't is my child gonna look at me one day and say she thinks less of me? 

This is why this topic is the forbidden fruit, because of silly comments that people dont think about before they say them.

Again, actually at this point I know I am out of line, but its okay, I just feel really strongly about that particular comment.


----------



## AlwaysPraying

fluffpuffin said:


> also I think people congratulate others for bf, because it is damn hard starting off - less sleep, no help with feeding, bleeding & cracked nipples - I dreaded every feed initially...I felt like throwing the towel in those early weeks, so I do feel like it is an achievement that i have persevered through all this

So I went through everything you explained and had to figure out formula feeding. Isnt that an accomplishment? Every word you wrote is how I felt once I decided to formula feed. I vibrated at every feed crying sobbing that baby wasnt eating enough. I would force the nipple to stay in so he would take a drop more. I had no help either and every feeding took over a hour and he ate every 2-3 hours. Not to mention getting up going downstairs setting up the bottle warming and finally feeding for an hour then maybe getting to go back to bed? 

I think what gets people is the wording. "congradulations" or "accomplishment". Those words Imply success. Lack of those words implies failure. I know you don't mean it but that's how it feels. No one goes around congratulating formula feeding moms we can all agree on that. So even with that, nothing - no comment seems to even hurt. No comment feels like judging feels like we didn't try hard enough last long enough struggle through enough. That we some how took the easy way out that we bailed and didn't try hard enough. So when you congratulate a woman for breast feeding you better realize her formula feeding friend is wondering what your thinking abou her.


----------



## hivechild

AlwaysPraying said:


> fluffpuffin said:
> 
> 
> also I think people congratulate others for bf, because it is damn hard starting off - less sleep, no help with feeding, bleeding & cracked nipples - I dreaded every feed initially...I felt like throwing the towel in those early weeks, so I do feel like it is an achievement that i have persevered through all this
> 
> So I went through everything you explained and had to figure out formula feeding. Isnt that an accomplishment? Every word you wrote is how I felt once I decided to formula feed. I vibrated at every feed crying sobbing that baby wasnt eating enough. I would force the nipple to stay in so he would take a drop more. I had no help either and every feeding took over a hour and he ate every 2-3 hours. Not to mention getting up going downstairs setting up the bottle warming and finally feeding for an hour then maybe getting to go back to bed?
> 
> I think what gets people is the wording. "congradulations" or "accomplishment". Those words Imply success. Lack of those words implies failure. I know you don't mean it but that's how it feels. No one goes around congratulating formula feeding moms we can all agree on that. So even with that, nothing - no comment seems to even hurt. No comment feels like judging feels like we didn't try hard enough last long enough struggle through enough. That we some how took the easy way out that we bailed and didn't try hard enough. So when you congratulate a woman for breast feeding you better realize her formula feeding friend is wondering what your thinking abou her.Click to expand...

If i congratulate someone who tries to run a marathon, whether they get all the way or not, are still plodding along, or they finished years ago, that doesn't make anyone who has never tried to run a marathon a failure, even if they're triathletes, or accomplished bakers or mechanics or what have you. If someone says, "i tried to run a marathon," I'm not going to not say congratulations, or well done because their friend didn't try to run one. I don't think someone is a failure because they've never stripped down and rebuilt an entire car engine, or even changed their own oil, but i would remark on the accomplishment of someone who did, even if they're trained and licensed mechanics, because to me it's impressive.

If there's an implication of failure because I congratulate the woman who tries to breastfeed, then i think it's in the mind of the woman who didn't, and even if it's a very real feeling, I think it's grossly misplaced. Be proud for what you have accomplished and don't judge your accomplishments against those of others.


----------



## massacubano

I FF before I BF and the first few months my eldest had me crazy cleaning bottles, then would only drink 1 oz and wake up exactly 2 hours later. I would be wondering if I slept or not. Yes, it was hard and you know what I think that alone is an accomplishment and deserves congrats too! :flower: 

Not every Mom chooses to not breastfeed. I had it chosen for me... sadly so.. I even cried seeing woman who were "able" to do what my body was not allowed to... PPD and meds... :cry:

However.... 13 years later I was able to BF my youngest child. I do not think it makes me any better than someone who FF nor does it mean the child is loved less... 
:hugs:


----------



## Janidog

I chose to FF right from the start, my son has never even had the choice to latch - so shoot me!!!!


----------



## SAmummy

I think it is quite an achievement and I think it's great to honour people. I do combo feeding and I admire ladies who exclusively BF , but it certainly doesn't make me feel less accomplished as a mum. Just the same I admire ladies who gave birth without pain relief even though I opted for an epi all three times. I don't feel worse about myself, but think it's great to congratulate someone on something for whatever reasons I chose not to do or could not do.


----------



## hivechild

SAmummy said:


> I think it is quite an achievement and I think it's great to honour people. I do combo feeding and I admire ladies who exclusively BF , but it certainly doesn't make me feel less accomplished as a mum. Just the same I admire ladies who gave birth without pain relief even though I opted for an epi all three times. I don't feel worse about myself, but think it's great to congratulate someone on something for whatever reasons I chose not to do or could not do.

I went pain relief free, but only because I got to the hospital after 2 hrs laboring, was 8cm and they told me it would be a bit pointless, and probably too late by the time they got to it anyway! 

Funnily, i would rather go through labor and birth ten times over before going through the first 6 weeks I went through establishing breastfeeding with ronan again. Of course, next time I'll labor without if I can because I know I can, but if I need pain relief I'll take what's offered. I'll also do everything within my power to bf again, and just hope that with the benefit of experience that it won't be so difficult next time around!


----------



## lkb21

I've done both so I feel qualified to give an unbiased opinion! 

I formula fed my son, I tried bf, but it didn't work out as i didn't try hard enough at it, my heart wasn't in it. And formula was easy! Not only that, I could very easily share the load, so i got a little independance. I could go shopping and leave ds with grandparents for eg. Jus normal daily things weren't a chore, asking for a jug of hot water to warm formula isn't half as stressful as finding somewhere appropriate to whip your bussoms our! 

Breastfeeding is a difficult thing to learn and stick at! In those early days when all u want is sleep but only u can feed your baby....its amazing, but hard. I think to not congratulate a bf'in mum for this is, well, ignorant. I think till u have done it and stuck it out u can't understand. I cant have a night with my friends over Xmas, or drink the thousand cups of tea a day that i used to, or nip to the haordresses for an hour while oh looks after Lo, cause only I can feed her! And yes I could express, but Omg, EFFORT! Jeees, that's bloody hard work, for 1 bottle it takes me 2 hours of expressin, so i have to think long and hard about what is worth expressin for and what isn't. I don't mind any of this BTW.... I LOVE feedin my daughtet, its amazin, all im saying is, when someone chooses to breastfeed, it should be celebrated, because its makin the decision to work hard at what nature intended! U dont get sore nipples from feeding formula, or dirty looks out in public. U don't have to watch ur diet or think twice about that glass of wine watchin xfactor! Lol (jus me then). 

Im not puttin ff ladies down, not at all, all of our children will walk talk and grow, but ff is the easier, and not best option! I'm not sayin formula is evil or anything extreme, its Jus not as good as breat milk, that's a fact. If i had formula fed, i would not for one minute begrudge a bf'in mum the pat on the back she deserves!

If i went for dinner at a friends, and I asked if she cooked it from scratch, and she did, I would say well done, she took the time and effort to cook it from scratch! I. Wouldnt do so if she told me she ordered in! Even if it tasted exactly the same!


----------



## maisiemoo

My daughter was born prematurely and unable to swallow! she's had 6 operations so far to correct this and spent her early weeks of life fed via a tube. During this time, I expressed every 2 hours night and day. Once given the all clear that she could take oral feeds, I worked day and night trying to get her to latch. It happened two-three weeks after she was born and she's been breastfed ever since :) For me, I see breastfeeding as a huge acheivement and its one that I'm really proud of. Under the circumstances, many people have given me that pat on the back and said well done, and guess what...I love it as i think back to those difficult times and it reminds me how far my daughter has come.


----------



## Heavencanwait

AppleBlossom said:


> The reason I stopped BFing was because I hated every second if it so much that I started to resent my own baby. She had a perfect latch, she was just so greedy that she never got enough milk from me and she would suck so hard to try and get more that I would sit sobbing in pain and she would just scream with hunger and frustration. It got to a point where my mental state was starting to get out of control. On one hand I was annoyed because I couldn't satisfy her hunger and on the other I was so angry about how much pain I was in I associated her with it and started hating her. I'm ashamed to admit that I ever resented her. I didn't mean too but it was a combination of a few things, BFing being the main problem, that made me feel that way. So I took the decision to stop. And it was the best thing I did for both of us. I started bonding with her a bit more (although I didn't fully bond with her until she was about 3 months old) and she was always contented with her feed. Resulting in not just a happier baby but a happier mummy. And people might call me a failure or tell me I was selfish but I look at her now, a bright, happy, healthy, beautiful little girl and I think back to the hell I went through BFing her and what I may have done had formula never have been an option and it scares me. Because I was so ready to leave. I was willing to wait till FOB had gone to work and just left her in the house and never come back. So I say to anyone who tries to tell me I didn't do right by my child to jog on. Because quite frankly, formula was the difference between my daughter having a mother and her having a mother who went awol. I don't find that selfish. But maybe that's just me

I totally understand what you said here. So glad you came through to the other side of this.


----------



## bekkie

AlwaysPraying said:


> No one goes around congratulating formula feeding moms we can all agree on that.

if a FF mama created a thread about how she successfully found a formula that works, I would absolutely congratulate her, and I'm sure many others would too... 

IMO BFing in the long-run is the easier option (for me anyway) - I don't have to worry about sterilizing bottles, or warming things up.. just boob and go! It was damn tough to establish.. but I've read that BF mamas get (on average) 10 minutes more sleep per night than FF mamas... and with the 3-4 broken hours I get (on average) now... I'll take every minute extra I can get! LOL

I've personally never seen anyone called selfish... or berated or belittled for formula feeding... and if I did I would absolutely call the person out on it because no one has the right to tell someone else what is best for their baby. 

It's unfortunate that some take offense or feel badly when they see a BF mama get congratulated.. I don't think that any of us doing the congratulating mean any ill intent towards others when we say it, and I normally see the threads on the BF forum anyway.. which I would think would only be visited by BF mamas... I know I don't visit the FF forum because I wouldn't be able to relate to the posts


----------



## leelee

aliss said:


> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...

Unfortunately there was someone on the thread (and another person that agreed with them) that called *some* FF mothers selfish.


----------



## bekkie

that is extremely unfortunate and very rude... I have a friend who didn't want to BF because she believed it would make her nipples crusty. LOL. so she formula fed from day one. She's a fantastic mom and far from selfish! her body, her baby, her choice - and she has an extremely healthy, beautiful little girl!


----------



## Scampie

Havent the same points been made over and over again in this already. They have been repeated in this thread and all the others before it. Why not spend the time and effort on playing with your bubbas rather than bickering on the tinterweb?


----------



## bekkie

he's sleeping and I have insomnia :)


----------



## leelee

bekkie said:


> that is extremely unfortunate... I have a friend who didn't want to BF because she believed it would make her nipples crusty. LOL. so she formula fed from day one. She's a fantastic mom and far from selfish! her body, her baby, her choice - and she has an extremely healthy, beautiful little girl!

Yeah, there is always someone waiting in the wings to put down mothers for their choices, not just FF mothers but for other reasons too. Luckily I don't encounter such nasty people on a daily basis!!! Or maybe I am lucky with my mother and baby groupd, as we can talk about anything without the fear of being judged :)


----------



## leelee

Scampie said:


> Havent the same points been made over and over again in this already. They have been repeated in this thread and all the others before it. Why not spend the time and effort on playing with your bubbas rather than bickering on the tinterweb?

The funny thing is that this thread was really interesting and I (personally) would not take any offence to a BF mother being congratulated. But as usual, someone has to say something nasty. And then people feel like they have to defend their choices.


----------



## redpoppy

Because breastfeeding is HARD. Cracked, sore, bleeding nipples. You wanna compare changing formula however many times to your nipples bleeding? Really? Plus baby latching, getting enough milk, having enough supply. 

I tried BFing for three months. It was tough. VERY tough. Then I switched to Formula; it was EASY easy easy!!!! The worst part is mixing the milk and sterilising bottles. 

Lastly, BFing is looked down upon because it's thought of unnatural, or weird, or disgusting (I've heard someone describe it as such) and people think breasts should only be sexual and so can't bear the thought of feeding their babies with their breasts which are made for feeding babies. And it's best for babies. Our society has gone mad and there is so little support for women who want to do the best thing even though it's so hard that people being successful in going against the grain, through so much adversity SHOULD be congratulated. 
:flower:


----------



## lkb21

Can i add that I by no means think ff mums arr selfish, nor do i see the way you feed your child as a reflectoon on your parenting! we're all great mums or we wouldn't bother bein a member of b&b xx


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Yeah my NCT group is pretty good, we don't all parent the same but no one is really 'extreme' and nobody takes advice as a criticism!

Meant to quote someone here, this prob doesn' make sense now...


----------



## leelee

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Yeah my NCT group is pretty good, we don't all parent the same but no one is really 'extreme' and nobody takes advice as a criticism!
> 
> Meant to quote someone here, this prob doesn' make sense now...

I think it was me you meant to quote!

I feel really lucky to have met such a lovely group of mums. We all went out for dinner the other night and it is so nice to be able to talk openly with a bunch of other mums. We all parent differently as well and it makes for a more well rounded bunch I think!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

leelee said:


> Mum2b_Claire said:
> 
> 
> Yeah my NCT group is pretty good, we don't all parent the same but no one is really 'extreme' and nobody takes advice as a criticism!
> 
> Meant to quote someone here, this prob doesn' make sense now...
> 
> I think it was me you meant to quote!
> 
> I feel really lucky to have met such a lovely group of mums. We all went out for dinner the other night and it is so nice to be able to talk openly with a bunch of other mums. We all parent differently as well and it makes for a more well rounded bunch I think!Click to expand...

Yup, I love going out for dinner with my NCT group once in a while, just a shame we all work now so we rarely get to see each other these days.


----------



## Scampie

leelee said:


> Scampie said:
> 
> 
> Havent the same points been made over and over again in this already. They have been repeated in this thread and all the others before it. Why not spend the time and effort on playing with your bubbas rather than bickering on the tinterweb?
> 
> The funny thing is that this thread was really interesting and I (personally) would not take any offence to a BF mother being congratulated. But as usual, someone has to say something nasty. And then people feel like they have to defend their choices.Click to expand...

I agree. I dont see why congratulating any mummy should offend anyone. As it was so well put earlier, congratulating one person does not mean putting down another. Half the time i dont bother to read baby club cos i feel i have to write disclaimers to go with my posts, lol.


----------



## xemmax

PrayinForBaby said:


> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I didn't mean it to start any arguments or anything or to be cruel, that's just how I feel about it.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry, and I may be totally out of line, but is there anything wrong with you because you didn't get your mom's breastmilk? I think its pretty shitty to think less about your mom bc she didn't breastfeed you, no matter what her reason was. And its comments like that that get us formula feeding moms all in a frenzy! Even if I hadn't tried to breastfeed, just because I can't is my child gonna look at me one day and say she thinks less of me?
> 
> This is why this topic is the forbidden fruit, because of silly comments that people dont think about before they say them.
> 
> Again, actually at this point I know I am out of line, but its okay, I just feel really strongly about that particular comment.Click to expand...

i don't think it was a silly comment, she was talking specifically about her own mother and saying how SHE feels. she's entitled to be honest about the way it made her feel, and although it's unfortunate that it might make people question how their own children will feel about them, it's still a reality. our children will pick apart all of our choices when they're old enough to understand them, it's just what happens.. love this quote:

"Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes, they forgive them." - Oscar Wilde

and what she actually said was that people that don't want to breastfeed because they don't want to lose their "perky boobs" are selfish. i don't see how it can be seen as anything else, they are thinking of themselves, so by definition they are selfish. i didn't see her applying that comment to everyone who formula feeds, it was pretty specific.


----------



## leelee

xemmax said:


> PrayinForBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I didn't mean it to start any arguments or anything or to be cruel, that's just how I feel about it.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry, and I may be totally out of line, but is there anything wrong with you because you didn't get your mom's breastmilk? I think its pretty shitty to think less about your mom bc she didn't breastfeed you, no matter what her reason was. And its comments like that that get us formula feeding moms all in a frenzy! Even if I hadn't tried to breastfeed, just because I can't is my child gonna look at me one day and say she thinks less of me?
> 
> This is why this topic is the forbidden fruit, because of silly comments that people dont think about before they say them.
> 
> Again, actually at this point I know I am out of line, but its okay, I just feel really strongly about that particular comment.Click to expand...
> 
> i don't think it was a silly comment, she was talking specifically about her own mother and saying how SHE feels. she's entitled to be honest about the way it made her feel, and although it's unfortunate that it might make people question how their own children will feel about them, it's still a reality. our children will pick apart all of our choices when they're old enough to understand them, it's just what happens.. love this quote:
> 
> "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes, they forgive them." - Oscar Wilde
> 
> and what she actually said was that people that don't want to breastfeed because they don't want to lose their "perky boobs" are selfish. i don't see how it can be seen as anything else, they are thinking of themselves, so by definition they are selfish. i didn't see her applying that comment to everyone who formula feeds, it was pretty specific.Click to expand...

No-one said she was referring to all FF's. If you look at my post I have 'some' FF's in bold to emphasise that. 

There is nothing wrong with being honest about how she feels about her Mum (although I can't really understand why she thinks any less of her - but thats the way she feels) but no need to be calling people names on here - like selfish.


----------



## bathbabe

bekkie said:


> AlwaysPraying said:
> 
> 
> No one goes around congratulating formula feeding moms we can all agree on that.
> 
> if a FF mama created a thread about how she successfully found a formula that works, I would absolutely congratulate her, and I'm sure many others would too...
> 
> IMO BFing in the long-run is the easier option (for me anyway) - I don't have to worry about sterilizing bottles, or warming things up.. just boob and go! It was damn tough to establish.. but I've read that BF mamas get (on average) 10 minutes more sleep per night than FF mamas... and with the 3-4 broken hours I get (on average) now... I'll take every minute extra I can get! LOL
> 
> I've personally never seen anyone called selfish... or berated or belittled for formula feeding... and if I did I would absolutely call the person out on it because no one has the right to tell someone else what is best for their baby.
> 
> It's unfortunate that some take offense or feel badly when they see a BF mama get congratulated.. I don't think that any of us doing the congratulating mean any ill intent towards others when we say it, and I normally see the threads on the BF forum anyway.. which I would think would only be visited by BF mamas... I know I don't visit the FF forum because I wouldn't be able to relate to the postsClick to expand...

Iv been called selfish, dont deserve respect etc on a thread in the FF section after giving my totally honest opinion for not wanting to BF, a BF came in and told me that.. I think it is a totally personal choice.


----------



## xemmax

leelee said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PrayinForBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I didn't mean it to start any arguments or anything or to be cruel, that's just how I feel about it.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry, and I may be totally out of line, but is there anything wrong with you because you didn't get your mom's breastmilk? I think its pretty shitty to think less about your mom bc she didn't breastfeed you, no matter what her reason was. And its comments like that that get us formula feeding moms all in a frenzy! Even if I hadn't tried to breastfeed, just because I can't is my child gonna look at me one day and say she thinks less of me?
> 
> This is why this topic is the forbidden fruit, because of silly comments that people dont think about before they say them.
> 
> Again, actually at this point I know I am out of line, but its okay, I just feel really strongly about that particular comment.Click to expand...
> 
> i don't think it was a silly comment, she was talking specifically about her own mother and saying how SHE feels. she's entitled to be honest about the way it made her feel, and although it's unfortunate that it might make people question how their own children will feel about them, it's still a reality. our children will pick apart all of our choices when they're old enough to understand them, it's just what happens.. love this quote:
> 
> "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes, they forgive them." - Oscar Wilde
> 
> and what she actually said was that people that don't want to breastfeed because they don't want to lose their "perky boobs" are selfish. i don't see how it can be seen as anything else, they are thinking of themselves, so by definition they are selfish. i didn't see her applying that comment to everyone who formula feeds, it was pretty specific.Click to expand...
> 
> No-one said she was referring to all FF's. If you look at my post I have 'some' FF's in bold to emphasise that.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being honest about how she feels about her Mum (although I can't really understand why she thinks any less of her - but thats the way she feels) but no need to be calling people names on here - like selfish.Click to expand...

i must have missed your post, i haven't seen it, sorry.

i don't think she meant to direct the 'selfish' comment at anyone on here, is what i'm trying to say.


----------



## RedRose

I hope no one is offended by me saying this, but to me the idea of congratulating a mother for feeding her baby either way is madness! What's the alternative then? Babies have to eat. I wouldn't expect to be congratulated for changing her nappies. Yes both BF and FF can be lots of effort but it's non negotiable that your baby has to eat! I really dont feel we should be congratulating ourselves for feeding our babies.

Congratulations to everyone who has managed to breathe today! 

(just read that back and it sounds as if I'm being lairy but I'm not, I mean it in a jokey way!!) :flower:


----------



## suzanne108

^ I still can't believe someone would think less of their own mother for not BFing! I mean, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter? 

I'm proud of my mum for BFing me whilst she had PND, but she weaned at 8 weeks. I don't think any less of her for that.

(Uh oh, I mentioned the W word...)


----------



## Janidog

suzanne108 said:


> ^ I still can't believe someone would think less of their own mother for not BFing! I mean, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter?
> 
> I'm proud of my mum for BFing me whilst she had PND, but she weaned at 8 weeks. I don't think any less of her for that.
> 
> (Uh oh, I mentioned the W word...)

 Thats it, you're in trouble :haha:


----------



## leelee

xemmax said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PrayinForBaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalah said:
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the other replies since I'm pretty sure this has turned into some kind of debate but I just wanted to add my own opinion =)
> 
> I think women who BF get congratulated simply because not enough people do it anymore and it needs to be encouraged. Apart from that, breast milk is proven to be the healthiest thing to feed a baby so of course it will always be a good thing to do! I feel bad for the women who want to breast feed but can't, I know I would have been so upset if I wasn't able to. *For the ones who chose to use formula simply because they thought BF would ruin their nice perky boobs (which pregnancy will ruin anyway) well they don't deserve a congratulations for being selfish. I asked my mom why she never BF me and she said she just didn't feel like it, that made me think a lot less of her.*
> I think when people do something that is really good they deserve to be congratulated! :happydance:
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think a lot of women here often make selfish choices (not necessarily feeding), but why call them out on it? They made their choice. It's not what I would do, but it's not my life either.Click to expand...
> 
> I know, and I didn't mean it to start any arguments or anything or to be cruel, that's just how I feel about it.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry, and I may be totally out of line, but is there anything wrong with you because you didn't get your mom's breastmilk? I think its pretty shitty to think less about your mom bc she didn't breastfeed you, no matter what her reason was. And its comments like that that get us formula feeding moms all in a frenzy! Even if I hadn't tried to breastfeed, just because I can't is my child gonna look at me one day and say she thinks less of me?
> 
> This is why this topic is the forbidden fruit, because of silly comments that people dont think about before they say them.
> 
> Again, actually at this point I know I am out of line, but its okay, I just feel really strongly about that particular comment.Click to expand...
> 
> i don't think it was a silly comment, she was talking specifically about her own mother and saying how SHE feels. she's entitled to be honest about the way it made her feel, and although it's unfortunate that it might make people question how their own children will feel about them, it's still a reality. our children will pick apart all of our choices when they're old enough to understand them, it's just what happens.. love this quote:
> 
> "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes, they forgive them." - Oscar Wilde
> 
> and what she actually said was that people that don't want to breastfeed because they don't want to lose their "perky boobs" are selfish. i don't see how it can be seen as anything else, they are thinking of themselves, so by definition they are selfish. i didn't see her applying that comment to everyone who formula feeds, it was pretty specific.Click to expand...
> 
> No-one said she was referring to all FF's. If you look at my post I have 'some' FF's in bold to emphasise that.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being honest about how she feels about her Mum (although I can't really understand why she thinks any less of her - but thats the way she feels) but no need to be calling people names on here - like selfish.Click to expand...
> 
> i must have missed your post, i haven't seen it, sorry.
> 
> i don't think she meant to direct the 'selfish' comment at anyone on here, is what i'm trying to say.Click to expand...

I hope not - but then what if there is someone on here who doesn't BF for that reason but is a fantastic mother in every way. It's terrible that they might be put off coming on here because they don't BF their baby. I don't see any need for putting down other mums choices unless they are neglecting their baby.

For example - a friend of mine FF from the beginning because she wanted to (I never asked her reasons why - it's none of my business). Another person I know BF her LO but drank heavily while BF'ing (and I mean absolutely off her head drunk lots) - now on the face of it some would say that the former mother was selfish for not attempting BF, but I know for a fact she was never drunk in charge of her LO. The other was. It's not always so simple to call someone selfish.


----------



## ellie

RedRose said:


> I hope no one is offended by me saying this, but to me the idea of congratulating a mother for feeding her baby either way is madness! What's the alternative then? Babies have to eat. I wouldn't expect to be congratulated for changing her nappies. Yes both BF and FF can be lots of effort but it's non negotiable that your baby has to eat! I really dont feel we should be congratulating ourselves for feeding our babies.
> 
> Congratulations to everyone who has managed to breathe today!
> 
> (just read that back and it sounds as if I'm being lairy but I'm not, I mean it in a jokey way!!) :flower:

Actually, as many people have said, BF needs encouraging and BF mothers often need encouragement and support as there is often little in real life. I've said it so many times, I don't like the implication that if you bf you are being smug or superior or even 'self congratulatory' - I'd say, what's wrong with congratulating yourself? We're too keen to put ourselves down all the flipping time. 

Yes FF is hard as well (I would have no clue at all) but as has been said already, you can't just give up FF if you are struggling, whereas there are alternatives so people do give up BF if they are struggling. So, if someone makes it through the struggle, why not give them a little encouragement or support?

And actually, I think we are thinking about this through rose tinted lenses - i.e. mums on here are going to be exceptionally thoughtful and caring, just because they spend so much time considering their parenting. Everyone is forgetting that a large proportion of mums are just not like that and just do not put as much into it. I won't give you any stats for child protection for neglect or emotional abuse in this country (or details of things I have been dealing with just recently), because they are depressing as they are so high. So, you (or anyone reading this) might think it's a given that you'd change your baby's nappy regularly, clean them, give them somewhere safe to sleep, keep them warm, protect them from infection or harm, and wouldn't think that you expect anything for it. It's worth just trying to remember that when thinking about issues like this, because it makes me appreciate good mums (such as you find on here) even more.


----------



## xemmax

suzanne108 said:


> ^ I still can't believe someone would think less of their own mother for not BFing! I mean, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter?
> 
> I'm proud of my mum for BFing me whilst she had PND, but she weaned at 8 weeks. I don't think any less of her for that.
> 
> (Uh oh, I mentioned the W word...)

it totally depends on your relationship with your parents and the importance of breastfeeding to you. if someone is really passionate about something then they can feel disappointed in their parents when they don't agree. 

if, as a parent, you decide that breastfeeding is important to your child and you decide to do it, and your mother then says to you she "didn't feel like it" when feeding you, i can see how that would make you question her. 

since having oliver i question all of the choices my parents made for my brothers and i in a new light. i question them as a parent, and whether i would do the same for my son.

(i'm pretty much a carbon copy of my mum though, so i tend to agree with everything they ever chose.)


----------



## xemmax

leelee said:


> I hope not - but then what if there is someone on here who doesn't BF for that reason but is a fantastic mother in every way. It's terrible that they might be put off coming on here because they don't BF their baby. I don't see any need for putting down other mums choices unless they are neglecting their baby.
> 
> For example - a friend of mine FF from the beginning because she wanted to (I never asked her reasons why - it's none of my business). Another person I know BF her LO but drank heavily while BF'ing (and I mean absolutely off her head drunk lots) - now on the face of it some would say that the former mother was selfish for not attempting BF, but I know for a fact she was never drunk in charge of her LO. The other was. It's not always so simple to call someone selfish.

well, if someone decided not to breastfeed for that reason, i WOULD think they had made a selfish choice. but that doesn't in the slightest way mean i would assume they weren't a fantastic mother. we all make selfish choices sometimes, there's no denying it, and the way we feed our children doesn't define the kind of parents we are.

i can't comment on your friend that FF from the beginning as i don't know her reasons for choosing to.

as for your friend who drank alcohol heavily while BFing, well, i don't want to say what i think to that. irresponsible doesn't cut it and that's a whole other debate.

like i said above, feeding doesn't define us as parents, and we all make selfish choices sometimes.


----------



## bathbabe

ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm


----------



## ellie

suzanne108 said:


> ^ I still can't believe someone would think less of their own mother for not BFing! I mean, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter?
> 
> I'm proud of my mum for BFing me whilst she had PND, but she weaned at 8 weeks. I don't think any less of her for that.
> 
> (Uh oh, I mentioned the W word...)

it really depends on your relationship and probably how you find their reasoning for it, and how important it seems to you. I wouldnt comment on that person's relationship with their mum, and why she in particular thought it seemed selfish, it might be just a part of a load of other things or to do with the way they relate.

I was ill and in NICU for 2 weeks when I was born and I don't think anyone at all would have ever suggested my mum try to BF me, because in those days (the 70's :blush:) formula was the in thing :), staff were very unsupportive and harsh and had no knowledge abotu BF at all. I do wonder that if I thought she actually hadn't wanted to (she didnt bf my younger brother either) I would be questioning why, but BF just wasnt encouraged in those days and in fact FF pushed as 'better for babies' than BF. So I'd try to understand that a bit.
She's been totally supportive of me BFing though and is quite proud of it, when she comes round she always asks where 'my milk' is and talks about it when out and about and always uses my Milk Bank mug :haha: So although she's never actually said 'well done for breastfeeding', it's implied through what she does and says, and I feel encouraged and congratulated and more motivated to continue.


----------



## leelee

bathbabe said:


> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm

That's what I was trying to say - there are often other reasons in the background and I don't see why anyone needs to come on here and call other people's choices selfish. It just puts people down - no need really


----------



## xemmax

bathbabe said:


> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm

when i (personally) use the term selfish here i am NOT using it as an insult, i'm using it as a definition.

so no, i don't think your choice was selfish, i think it was practical, and probably quite sensible due to your circumstances. 

i don't think formula does any harm, and i'm not sure anyone would say that. just that it isn't the ideal, but that's not news to anyone.

everyone will be judged for their choices, it's perfectly natural. but it doesn't mean those judgements should be held against them, i don't do that.


----------



## bathbabe

xemmax said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm
> 
> when i (personally) use the term selfish here i am NOT using it as an insult, i'm using it as a definition.
> 
> so no, i don't think your choice was selfish, i think it was practical, and probably quite sensible due to your circumstances.
> 
> i don't think formula does any harm, and i'm not sure anyone would say that. just that it isn't the ideal, but that's not news to anyone.
> 
> everyone will be judged for their choices, it's perfectly natural. but it doesn't mean those judgements should be held against them, i don't do that.Click to expand...

So im selfish by definition? Thats ok then.. Lol ETA, i am joking btw x


----------



## leelee

What if I came on here and said that I think co-sleepers are being selfish to their partners (I don't think this as I used to co-sleep in the mornings). Is that okay to say that because it is a definition? I don't think it is, I think it is rude and putting someone else's choices down.

It is not something I would do but everyone is different I suppose


----------



## xemmax

bathbabe said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm
> 
> when i (personally) use the term selfish here i am NOT using it as an insult, i'm using it as a definition.
> 
> so no, i don't think your choice was selfish, i think it was practical, and probably quite sensible due to your circumstances.
> 
> i don't think formula does any harm, and i'm not sure anyone would say that. just that it isn't the ideal, but that's not news to anyone.
> 
> everyone will be judged for their choices, it's perfectly natural. but it doesn't mean those judgements should be held against them, i don't do that.Click to expand...
> 
> So im selfish by definition? Thats ok then.. Lol ETA, i am joking btw xClick to expand...

did you not bother to read my reply? i was saying that choices are selfish, not people.

and i explicitly said "i don't think your choice is selfish". i'm not trying to judge anyone, i'm trying to explain. take offense if that's what you wanna do!

ETA i just saw your ETA :haha:

sorry.. didn't realise you were joking :blush:


----------



## ellie

ot slightly ......... ? think the original q was why should we congratulate mums for BFing? let's just be careful it doesnt degenerate into a 'what's the best' type of thread...

However, I do feel I'm being a bit selfish to my partner sometimes for co sleeping, as he hasnt been allowed in our bed for months :haha:


----------



## xemmax

leelee said:


> What if I came on here and said that I think co-sleepers are being selfish to their partners (I don't think this as I used to co-sleep in the mornings). Is that okay to say that because it is a definition? I don't think it is, I think it is rude and putting someone else's choices down.
> 
> It is not something I would do but everyone is different I suppose

i'm not sure that's the same principle. if they were kicking their partner out of the bed for their own benefit then yeah.. but surely that's not the case?

i dunno.. we sleep 3 in a bed and my partner loves it!


----------



## xemmax

ellie said:


> ot slightly ......... ? think the original q was why should we congratulate mums for BFing? let's just be careful it doesnt degenerate into a 'what's the best' type of thread...
> 
> However, I do feel I'm being a bit selfish to my partner sometimes for co sleeping, as he hasnt been allowed in our bed for months :haha:

i'm not trying to cause debates or offense! i hope no one reads my posts like i am...


----------



## fluffpuffin

it was kinda obvious this thread was going to end in a debate...thing is: we all feel protective of our LO's and believe the choices we make are best. we all want the best for our LO's. I think some people are too easily offended - why, if you are happy with your parenting choices??? If you feel secure and happy with what you do then other's perception or opinions shouldn't matter. I know they don't to me, as I know I'm doing what's best for my baby. :flower:


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## Lightworker

what does ETA mean?


----------



## lkb21

If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts. 

We control how somethin makes us feel. If your choice wasnt selfish, you know that, why try and justify it to people that you don't know?


----------



## leelee

xemmax said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> What if I came on here and said that I think co-sleepers are being selfish to their partners (I don't think this as I used to co-sleep in the mornings). Is that okay to say that because it is a definition? I don't think it is, I think it is rude and putting someone else's choices down.
> 
> It is not something I would do but everyone is different I suppose
> 
> i'm not sure that's the same principle. if they were kicking their partner out of the bed for their own benefit then yeah.. but surely that's not the case?
> 
> i dunno.. we sleep 3 in a bed and my partner loves it!Click to expand...

Well maybe it is the case in some relationships. Maybe the person is happy to have their partner in another bed??? And that is what I have been trying to say - we never know the reasons why people do things so to call them selfish is not right. I know you are saying that your not calling 'people' selfish, but the others were.


----------



## Dopeyjopey

bathbabe said:


> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm

I AM a single mum and have a baby 'sucking on my boobs day and night'. I do every nappy change, bath, feed, clean up of sick, taking him to the doctors, the 6 night feeds, rocking him to sleep - and what's more, i do that with no emotional support from a partner. I haven't had my hair cut in 6 months, been to the cinema, 'popped' to the shop. In fact, I have only left him for one night out 3 months ago and for a day when i was in hospital (but he came in to visit so i could feed him).

Thinking about all that, i think i'm gonna give myself a big pat on the back :)


----------



## leelee

lkb21 said:


> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.
> 
> We control how somethin makes us feel. If your choice wasnt selfish, you know that, why try and justify it to people that you don't know?

I don't think anyone should have to justify it, regardless of the reasons


----------



## bathbabe

Dopeyjopey said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm
> 
> I AM a single mum and have a baby 'sucking on my boobs day and night'. I do every nappy change, bath, feed, clean up of sick, taking him to the doctors, the 6 night feeds, rocking him to sleep - and what's more, i do that with no emotional support from a partner. I haven't had my hair cut in 6 months, been to the cinema, 'popped' to the shop. In fact, I have only left him for one night out 3 months ago and for a day when i was in hospital (but he came in to visit so i could feed him).
> 
> Thinking about all that, i think i'm gonna give myself a big pat on the back :)Click to expand...

Then well done. Good for you. But i had the choice not to be like that. Its more important to me for my son to see his dad than to be BF. I grew up not knowing my dad and then he died when i was 18 and i regreted never speaking to him. I know its not quite the same but it was important to my partner too. Single mums have the toughest jobs, i wasnt saying anything bad about them at all x


----------



## lkb21

leelee said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.
> 
> We control how somethin makes us feel. If your choice wasnt selfish, you know that, why try and justify it to people that you don't know?
> 
> I don't think anyone should have to justify it, regardless of the reasonsClick to expand...

Sorry, nor do I. I disnt mean they should, but if your reason WAS selfish, you couldmt kustify it, so you wouldnt! People generally try and justify things when there is a JUST reason for something, and if thats the case, you shouldnt feel the need to!


----------



## leelee

lkb21 said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.
> 
> We control how somethin makes us feel. If your choice wasnt selfish, you know that, why try and justify it to people that you don't know?
> 
> I don't think anyone should have to justify it, regardless of the reasonsClick to expand...
> 
> Sorry, nor do I. I disnt mean they should, but if your reason WAS selfish, you couldmt kustify it, so you wouldnt! People generally try and justify things when there is a JUST reason for something, and if thats the case, you shouldnt feel the need to!Click to expand...

Agree with that :flower:


----------



## Dopeyjopey

bathbabe said:


> Dopeyjopey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm
> 
> I AM a single mum and have a baby 'sucking on my boobs day and night'. I do every nappy change, bath, feed, clean up of sick, taking him to the doctors, the 6 night feeds, rocking him to sleep - and what's more, i do that with no emotional support from a partner. I haven't had my hair cut in 6 months, been to the cinema, 'popped' to the shop. In fact, I have only left him for one night out 3 months ago and for a day when i was in hospital (but he came in to visit so i could feed him).
> 
> Thinking about all that, i think i'm gonna give myself a big pat on the back :)Click to expand...
> 
> Then well done. Good for you. But i had the choice not to be like that. Its more important to me for my son to see his dad than to be BF. I grew up not knowing my dad and then he died when i was 18 and i regreted never speaking to him. I know its not quite the same but it was important to my partner too. Single mums have the toughest jobs, i wasnt saying anything bad about them at all xClick to expand...

:hugs: I wasn't suggesting you were saying anything bad - just trying to show that your reason to not BF is how i live my normal life, which is why sometimes someone does deserve a little confidence boost in recognition of doing something difficult.


----------



## cherryglitter

Lol I would find it really patronising if someone congratulated me on feeding my child. 
Isn't it just a standard thing to do!
I'd kind of look at someone a bit funny if they were like WELL DONE.

What else was I supposed to be doing!!!

Completely off topic but Jake has just dribbled ALL over my legs, bare legs!!!


----------



## Missy86

Dopeyjopey said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dopeyjopey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm
> 
> I AM a single mum and have a baby 'sucking on my boobs day and night'. I do every nappy change, bath, feed, clean up of sick, taking him to the doctors, the 6 night feeds, rocking him to sleep - and what's more, i do that with no emotional support from a partner. I haven't had my hair cut in 6 months, been to the cinema, 'popped' to the shop. In fact, I have only left him for one night out 3 months ago and for a day when i was in hospital (but he came in to visit so i could feed him).
> 
> Thinking about all that, i think i'm gonna give myself a big pat on the back :)Click to expand...
> 
> Then well done. Good for you. But i had the choice not to be like that. Its more important to me for my son to see his dad than to be BF. I grew up not knowing my dad and then he died when i was 18 and i regreted never speaking to him. I know its not quite the same but it was important to my partner too. Single mums have the toughest jobs, i wasnt saying anything bad about them at all xClick to expand...
> 
> :hugs: I wasn't suggesting you were saying anything bad - just trying to show that your reason to not BF is how i live my normal life, which is why sometimes someone does deserve a little confidence boost in recognition of doing something difficult.Click to expand...

Jo I think your amazing :hugs:


----------



## Janidog

lkb21 said:


> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.
> 
> We control how somethin makes us feel. *If your choice wasnt selfish, you know that, why try and justify it to people that you don't know?*

So because my choice was selfish, I have to keep justifying myself??????? I don't think so, my choice, my decision no one else's!


----------



## cherryglitter

Janidog said:


> I chose to FF right from the start, my son has never even had the choice to latch - so shoot me!!!!

Same, I FF from the start too.


----------



## cherryglitter

lkb21 said:


> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.

I don't think im selfish. If I were selfish I wouldn't have had a child in the first place!


----------



## Midnight_Fairy

I think any mum deserves praise lol no matter how you feed the baby!!! It really doesnt matter to me. I dont think BF makes you a better mum just like I dont think FF makes you a bad mum.


----------



## lkb21

Janidog said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.
> 
> We control how somethin makes us feel. *If your choice wasnt selfish, you know that, why try and justify it to people that you don't know?*
> 
> So because my choice was selfish, I have to keep justifying myself??????? I don't think so, my choice, my decision no one else's!Click to expand...

No you dont have to justify it, because by saying 'my choice was selfish' there's nothin to justify! You cant justify a selfish choice because there is no just reason for the choice!


----------



## AppleBlossom

lkb21 said:


> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts

Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at all


----------



## lkb21

cherryglitter said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts.
> 
> I don't think im selfish. If I were selfish I wouldn't have had a child in the first place!Click to expand...

If you don't think your selfish, then you dont need to justify anything! You know your not selfish, no one elses opinion should matter. As I said earlier, we have some control over how something makes us feel! :)


----------



## cherryglitter

AppleBlossom said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense startsQUOTE]
> 
> B*ecause when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade* you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at all
> 
> What have you started now dear!!! :haha:Click to expand...


----------



## AppleBlossom

cherryglitter said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense startsQUOTE]
> 
> B*ecause when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade* you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at all
> 
> What have you started now dear!!! :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, but I couldn't care less lol I know a lot of BFing mums who are quite happy to get on with their own lives and leave others to theirs and have the decency not to judge. But there are some who just can't help themselves. So shoot me if I find them annoyingClick to expand...


----------



## cherryglitter

AppleBlossom said:


> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense startsQUOTE]
> 
> B*ecause when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade* you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at all
> 
> What have you started now dear!!! :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, but I couldn't care less lol I know a lot of BFing mums who are quite happy to get on with their own lives and leave others to theirs and have the decency not to judge. But there are some who just can't help themselves. So shoot me if I find them annoyingClick to expand...
> 
> No I agree! I've said something similar before though and been very quickly shot down. :dohh:Click to expand...


----------



## lkb21

AppleBlossom said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...

I'm not saying anyone is srlfish for formula feeding. What im sayin is, if someone is bashing ff'ers for being selfish, yet you know that you chose ff for x reason and you don't think that's selfish, then the post no longer applies to you. 

I stated earlier that my son was ff. I'm not arguing here for or against bf or ff, I'm simply pointing out that if you know your reasoning, whether i, or anyone else thinks thats selfish shouldn't matter!


----------



## Lara310809

I've done both breastfeeding and formula feeding, and in my experience, breastfeeding is a lot harder than formula feeding. Switching to formula was like a holiday for me, becuase I no longer had to worry about finding a place fast enough to feed LO, never had to worry about latching, or sore nipples, or anything like that. I mean, if you have trouble formula feeding your LO it can be as stressful as a person who is having problems breastfeeding their LO, so I suppose in those cases, kudos need to go to everyone. But in most cases, formula feeding is pretty easy and straightforward. I've heard of plenty more problems breastfeeding than i have with formula feeding.


----------



## xemmax

lkb21 said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...
> 
> I'm not saying anyone is srlfish for formula feeding. What im sayin is, if someone is bashing ff'ers for being selfish, yet you know that you chose ff for x reason and you don't think that's selfish, then the post no longer applies to you.
> 
> I stated earlier that my son was ff. I'm not arguing here for or against bf or ff, I'm simply pointing out that if you know your reasoning, whether i, or anyone else thinks thats selfish shouldn't matter!Click to expand...

well i get your point and i couldn't agree more. :thumbup:


----------



## AppleBlossom

I know being called selfish for FFing doesn't apply to me. I am quite settled with that fact. But if you put yourselves in the shoes of someone who is always being attacked with that, surely you would want to defend yourself?


----------



## Drazic<3

AppleBlossom said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> *Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it.* I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...

Someone was always going to do it wern't they? I BF my baby and I am proud of it. If that makes anyone insecure I am sorry but that is their problem not mine. I would never berate anyone for FF, but I am proud of my choice for ME AND HER and won't apologise for that. If that makes me part of the breastfeeding brigade, so be it! :) 

Oh, and after feeding through cracked nipples, mastitis and thrush I do give myself a pat on the back for perusing what it right for us, maybe no-one else, but us. And all the girls that gave me a congratulations and kept us going I am so thankful for. 

Why does it hurt anyone else to congratulate someone for doing something they want to try and achieve for them and their child, regardless of what it is? Again, I think it speaks more about personal insecurities than anything else. Can't we all just support each other without fear of offending others? It simply isn't personal.


----------



## XfairyhopesX

AppleBlossom said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...

there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.


----------



## Drazic<3

We co-sleep, breastfeed, baby wear...ect...ect, these choices are excellent for us, but don't work for everyone. I don't understand how being proud of how you parent, regardless of how that is, is criticising people who parent differently? 

Can't we just all support each other without feeling attacked?! :wacko:


----------



## lkb21

AppleBlossom said:


> I know being called selfish for FFing doesn't apply to me. I am quite settled with that fact. But if you put yourselves in the shoes of someone who is always being attacked with that, surely you would want to defend yourself?

I wouldnt, because it wouldn't apply to me. Is Jus think that person doesnt know me or my choice so it isn't aimed at me. 

Unless someone said 'i think lkb21 is selfish for x reason' i wouldn't let the lable stick to me. And even if the comment was directed at me, I woud seriously consider the basis of that persons comment before letting it effect me. If it was my best friend saying it, i would question it, someone who doesn't know me however, then their comments wiuld for the most parts unfounded :)


----------



## AppleBlossom

Drazic<3 said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> *Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it.* I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...
> 
> Someone was always going to do it wern't they? I BF my baby and I am proud of it. If that makes anyone insecure I am sorry but that is their problem not mine. I would never berate anyone for FF, but I am proud of my choice for ME AND HER and won't apologise for that. If that makes me part of the breastfeeding brigade, so be it! :)
> 
> Oh, and after feeding through cracked nipples, mastitis and thrush I do give myself a pat on the back for perusing what it right for us, maybe no-one else, but us. And all the girls that gave me a congratulations and kept us going I am so thankful for.
> 
> Why does it hurt anyone else to congratulate someone for doing something they want to try and achieve for them and their child, regardless of what it is? Again, I think it speaks more about personal insecurities than anything else. Can't we all just support each other without fear of offending others? It simply isn't personal.Click to expand...

What I mean by that is, there are a few people who take it too far. I absolutely agree that BFers should be proud, been there, it was very hard and I hold my hands up to anyone who can carry on. What I don't like is that some people just can't keep it to themselves. Being proud that you BF is one thing. Telling anyone who dares not BF that they are selfish etc is quite another. Like I said, I have no problem with women who BF and are respectful enough to realise that not everyone has to do what they do. It's the women who go on about FFers are lazy and sefish and come off with all these statistis about how FFed children don't do well in school etc that annoy me


----------



## XfairyhopesX

Drazic<3 said:


> We co-sleep, breastfeed, baby wear...ect...ect, these choices are excellent for us, but don't work for everyone. I don't understand how being proud of how you parent, regardless of how that is, is criticising people who parent differently?
> 
> Can't we just all support each other without feeling attacked?! :wacko:

:thumbup:


----------



## Dopeyjopey

XfairyhopesX said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.Click to expand...

:shock: am i one of these people? I BF, won't be weaning until at least 6 months, cosleep, use cloth nappies - that doesn't mean i think any less of people who don't do those things - although i may try to convert everyone to cloth because it's so pretty :haha:

Just because someone is proud of what they do and encourage others to do the same doesn't mean they are part of an activist group!


----------



## XfairyhopesX

Dopeyjopey said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.Click to expand...
> 
> :shock: am i one of these people? I BF, won't be weaning until at least 6 months, cosleep, use cloth nappies - that doesn't mean i think any less of people who don't do those things - although i may try to convert everyone to cloth because it's so pretty :haha:
> 
> Just because someone is proud of what they do and encourage others to do the same doesn't mean they are part of an activist group!Click to expand...

no it doesnt mean you do whats best for you and thats good, wasnt aimed at you angel i would never do that id consider that abit spiteful if was a negative comment tbh x


----------



## vixy

i dont think there is a right or wrong way to feed your baby. I combi fed for along time but primarily booby fed until 8 months ish. I was very proud and felt it was best for my baby and i intend to try to exclusively feed the next one, but that is not to say i think FF is wrong, every mother should do what they think is best or what is easiest for them and there LO. I just loved loved loved being able to feed my baby and also thats what boobs are for. Its such a shame booby feeding is frowed upon by so many when your feeding in public....what do they think ladies boobies are for??? xx


----------



## Missy86

After reading this thread I have decided I am gonna be proud of myself for growing Rhys, having a c section after a difficult labour and him being to big, trying bfeeding for as long as I did and knowing when to move on to formula. Im also proud of him for being a happy healthy little guy.

Can we all just give ourselfs a pat on the back, we have all done well


----------



## XfairyhopesX

all good mummies if baby happy / fed and developing well!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dopeyjopey

Missy86 said:


> After reading this thread I have decided I am gonna be proud of myself for growing Rhys, having a c section after a difficult labour and him being to big, trying bfeeding for as long as I did and knowing when to move on to formula. Im also proud of him for being a happy healthy little guy.
> 
> Can we all just give ourselfs a pat on the back, we have all done well

Well said :thumbup:


----------



## AppleBlossom

If anyone here had ever met my daughter they would see why I am exceptionally proud of her despite the fact she was FF, weaned at 4 months, wears disposable nappies and used CIO. She is one of the most intelligent children of her age that I know. That isn't me being biased, even people I don't even know have commented. And I would be equally as proud of her if she had been BF, weaned at 6 months, co slept and used cloth nappies. NONE of those factors, imo, contributes to the person your child will be. The amount of love and attention and encouragement you give them does. And I think we all give our children that whether we BF or FF


----------



## vixy

Ive just read a couple of the slightly older posts and just wanted to say i 100% agree with those ladies that have said it is GOOD to congratulate ladies for doing well, regardless of how they choose to feed there baby. If your baby is well fed, happy and healthy then CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE for feeding your baby well. :-D


----------



## Leesie

XfairyhopesX said:


> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.

Well then I suppose I a member of the BF brigade as I am still BF'ing at nearly 10 months and, horror of horrors, we co-sleep. LOL :winkwink: Oh well I guess I've been called worse. 

TBH I find it quite ironic that this is the kind of unfair blanket generalisation that the so-called BF brigade so often get's accused of. Sigh...


----------



## cherryglitter

I don't think all BF's are the same AT ALL. xx


----------



## XfairyhopesX

cherryglitter said:


> I don't think all BF's are the same AT ALL. xx

nor do i just to clarify def depends on the individual a lady i know is V big on the BF / making botts fresh - i find myself not wanting to tell her anything which is wrong xx


----------



## bubbles123

Because BF is very hard for most people and they often have to percerver through pain, constant feeding etc to get there. You can have problems with FF of course but not usually on the same level as BF. Problem is that most Bf'ers and FF'ers feel got at in this country. BF'ers feel judged so can become defensive, as do FF'ers. It all bonkers really as you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. FF you're selfish, BF and you're a weird hippy (NOT WHAT I THINK!!!) We should all just get over it and congratulate ourselves for looking after our LO's -it's one of the hardest jobs in the world!


----------



## LankyDoodle

Leesie said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.
> 
> Well then I suppose I a member of the BF brigade as I am still BF'ing at nearly 10 months and, horror of horrors, we co-sleep. LOL :winkwink: Oh well I guess I've been called worse.
> 
> TBH I find it quite ironic that this is the kind of unfair blanket generalisation that the so-called BF brigade so often get's accused of. Sigh...Click to expand...

Hmm yeh that's me too! BF and no intention of stopping til she chooses; waited to wean til 6 months and still taking it slowly; co-sleep a lot of the time; still in our room obviously; don't let her cry, fluffy nappies... 
I do have strong opinions and do have a certain approach to parenting but that does not mean I lack empathy for those who choose an alternative method. :shrug:


----------



## smokey

The term BF brigade makes me giggle, it just brings up images of an army of mothers marching around telling people what to do :)
And thats why I dont think most bf come under this whole brigade thing because most of them are just "im doing my thing now bugger off and do your own"
The "type" of person that falls into the brigade in my oppinion are the ones that give the general oppinion (and arnt affraid to express it) of "I love my child more then you love yours because I BF" and luckly those are a minority that I very rarely come across.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Leesie said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.
> 
> Well then I suppose I a member of the BF brigade as I am still BF'ing at nearly 10 months and, horror of horrors, we co-sleep. LOL :winkwink: Oh well I guess I've been called worse.
> 
> TBH I find it quite ironic that this is the kind of unfair blanket generalisation that the so-called BF brigade so often get's accused of. Sigh...Click to expand...

Oh don't worry, I am a 'certain' type of parent who BLW at 6 months, doesn't CIO/CC, would co sleep if my child wanted to, gentle disciplines and has a toddler who rides rear facing in the car. If that means that I am wrong somehow according to some other parents I really couldn't care less.


----------



## bubbles123

Every movement has it's extremists. They usually ruin it for everyone else, as most movements are made up of entirely of reasonable people. Their will be millitant lactivists who are best ignored out there. They in no way reflect the views of the average Bf'ing mum and it is unfair to label everyone becuase of the words/comments of a few. So for that reason I hate to see terms like BF brigade used as there is no such thing! I have never even had a singal comment from my Bf'ing friends about me FF'ing. I wouldn't congratulate them, and they don't congratulate me about how we choose or had to feed.


----------



## AppleBlossom

smokey said:


> The term BF brigade makes me giggle, it just brings up images of an army of mothers marching around telling people what to do :)
> And thats why I dont think most bf come under this whole brigade thing because most of them are just "im doing my thing now bugger off and do your own"
> *The "type" of person that falls into the brigade in my oppinion are the ones that give the general oppinion (and arnt affraid to express it) of "I love my child more then you love yours because I BF" and luckly those are a minority that I very rarely come across*.

^^ This!


----------



## XfairyhopesX

AppleBlossom said:


> smokey said:
> 
> 
> The term BF brigade makes me giggle, it just brings up images of an army of mothers marching around telling people what to do :)
> And thats why I dont think most bf come under this whole brigade thing because most of them are just "im doing my thing now bugger off and do your own"
> *The "type" of person that falls into the brigade in my oppinion are the ones that give the general oppinion (and arnt affraid to express it) of "I love my child more then you love yours because I BF" and luckly those are a minority that I very rarely come across*.
> 
> ^^ This!Click to expand...

was exactly what i meant well put lol


----------



## smokey

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Leesie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.
> 
> Well then I suppose I a member of the BF brigade as I am still BF'ing at nearly 10 months and, horror of horrors, we co-sleep. LOL :winkwink: Oh well I guess I've been called worse.
> 
> TBH I find it quite ironic that this is the kind of unfair blanket generalisation that the so-called BF brigade so often get's accused of. Sigh...Click to expand...
> 
> Oh don't worry, I am a 'certain' type of parent who BLW at 6 months, doesn't CIO/CC, would co sleep if my child wanted to, gentle disciplines and has a toddler who rides rear facing in the car. If that means that I am wrong somehow according to some other parents I really couldn't care less.Click to expand...

Again I dont think its a case of what some mothers do that makes them wrong as their intentions are just to do what they think best for their child, its the ones that force it down the throats of others that if they dont dont it all this way then they are wrong and dont love their child as much.

I dont mean you personaly at all its just that im quoating what you said :)


----------



## bump_wanted

leelee said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> i dont understand why moms get touchy or defensive when this issue arises, surely when you decided to BF or FF, u weighed the pros and cons and thus you should be confident in ur choice and therefore shouldnt be bothered about what other people think- i think sometimes we need to assess why we react as we do to what other people think- just a thought really- no offence intended at all
> 
> I think its because some people had their heart set on BF and couldn't for whatever reason. It takes time for people to get over that. I have come to terms with not being able to but when my LO was very young I might have gotten very defensive.Click to expand...

i agree its because not everyone chooses to FF (no offense to those who did) its like how some people are touchy after having a c-section with all this too posh to push nonsense its because its not as we planned it, it takes time to come to terms with xxx


----------



## Hellodoris

It's threads like this one that make me glad we have sub forums to support mummies and their parenting choice. It's also shown me the reasons why I would never ask a "feeding" question in baby club. 
Anyhoo each to their own, I BF and love it, couldn't be arsed to FF too much faff for me, and yes BF hurt and I cried and have wanted t give up more times then I can remember but I am proud of myself and what "I" have accomplished, and if someone wants to congratulate/compliment me on any aspect of how I raise my child then great (all ego boosts are very welcome). In the same vein if I read a thread where someone gets congratulated for something be it feeding/sleepin etc then I think good for them. 

anyhoo as you were, I have a sleeping child, a packet of dark chocolate digestives to devour and the latest Americas Next Top Model to watch.


----------



## maisiemoo

XfairyhopesX said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.Click to expand...

](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,) mass generalisation here, i guess i should keep quiet and get bck to polishing the halo lol


----------



## AppleBlossom

maisiemoo said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> If you know that there was a ligitimate reason why you didn't breast feed, and that choice was best for you and your baby, then the word selfish wouldnt apply to you and you would know that! If it was me I'd think, 'well I quit for x reason, and that wasn't selfish, so that doesnt apply to me!'. If you know that you didn't breastfeed for selfish reasons (cant be arse, boobs will sag, constant feeding, tired etc) that's when the defense starts
> 
> Because when you are constantly being attacked by the BF brigade you feel like you have to justify it. I'm sorry, but I respect that people choose to breastfeed, why can't people respect that others don't? Does it afect YOUR life if someone formula feeds? No? Then get a grip and stop concerning yourself. If the only thing you have to say about FFers is that they are selfish then maybe you should not say anything at allClick to expand...
> 
> there is def a TYPE of person / mum you refered to in that brigade ie BF / not weaning until 6 month exactly / Co sleeping (just examples) but that seem to all think strongly along the same lines for all matters. Just my opinion before i get shot :shrug: - find it hilar i you have to put that cos you know whats coming v sad indeed.Click to expand...
> 
> ](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,) mass generalisation here, i guess i should keep quiet and get bck to polishing the halo lolClick to expand...

If you'd read the rest of the thread you would have seen my explaination...


----------



## ttc_lolly

Hellodoris said:


> anyhoo as you were, I have a sleeping child, a packet of dark chocolate digestives to devour and the latest Americas Next Top Model to watch.

I am addicted to those dark choc digestives!!! :haha: damn you mcvities!! x


----------



## cherryglitter

Dark chocolate is a bit too bitter for me. I looove milk and white chocolate!


----------



## ttc_lolly

I'm not usually keen on dark either, but those biccy's are the best thing since sliced bread!! x


----------



## XfairyhopesX

somone along the lines made a comment about being too defensive, i think if folk actually were abit more open minded threads wouldn't get so serious / harsh and as i always say- sorry boring i know - support is better than negativity for the OP, unless its worded v carefully xx


----------



## Dopeyjopey

XfairyhopesX said:


> somone along the lines made a comment about being too defensive, i think if folk actually were abit more open minded threads wouldn't get so serious / harsh and as i always say- sorry boring i know - support is better than negativity for the OP, unless its worded v carefully xx

I agree to a certain extent but if someone is asking for advice surely it is better for them to receive the best/most honest advice than a hundred women all saying 'just do what you feel is best'?


----------



## XfairyhopesX

yes course it is thats my point darl just nicely lol not harsh and judgmental as often happens in baby club unfor xx


----------



## LeanneS177

wow, I have read this thread on and off all day. what a lot to digest!! Having been on both sides of the fence (I bf dd #1 and ff #2) I can understand what a lot of you ladies are saying. but back to the original post. 

Personally I believe those who persevere through all the hurdles of bf and ff are the ones who truly deserve to be congratulated. 
While bf my daughter I experienced most of the horrors available: mastitus, thrush, cracked bleeding nipples etc. there were so many times I wanted to just give it up and make it easier on myself. my family and friends all tried to encourage me to ff with each obstacle. I refused to give in until she was 4 months old when I decided the best thing for us both was to change to ff. 

I have exclusivley ff dd #2 and it really has been easy for us both. In no way do I feel I ought to be praised for something that for us has come without drama. In saying that, I am proud of how I have cared for both my girls, they are my everything and I have made my decisions based on what i believe is best for us. I believe there is nothing wrong in being proud of our decisions and instead of bickering over our differences can we not bond over our similarities - lke how we all love our beautiful babies. Isnt the point of bnb that it is somewhere we can go for support, advice and sympathy?


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

XfairyhopesX said:


> yes course it is thats my point darl just nicely lol not harsh and judgmental as often happens in baby club unfor xx

I think this brings us back to the same point that was discussed on the 'each to their own' thread (I think?) - one persons idea of 'harsh and judgemental' is simply not the same as another persons'. 

I think this fact is probably the reason why arguments and bad feeling starts, 9 times out of 10.


----------



## suzanne108

Do you know what? I'm fed up of people complaining about Baby Club :(


----------



## XfairyhopesX

Mum2b_Claire said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> yes course it is thats my point darl just nicely lol not harsh and judgmental as often happens in baby club unfor xx
> 
> I think this brings us back to the same point that was discussed on the 'each to their own' thread (I think?) - one persons idea of 'harsh and judgemental' is simply not the same as another persons'.
> 
> I think this fact is probably the reason why arguments and bad feeling starts, 9 times out of 10.Click to expand...

lol probs tbh mum2be but i think you know what i mean by harsh, its the direct - dont ask things like that / this is how we should do stuff things that get backs up you can ask what you like, not just being honest and to the point :wacko: xx


----------



## RedRose

Ah, see now we've changed 'congratulating' into 'support' and 'encouragement', which means something different, but you are absolutely right and if a mum is struggling to feed her baby then she should definitely be supported and encouraged.


ellie said:


> RedRose said:
> 
> 
> I hope no one is offended by me saying this, but to me the idea of congratulating a mother for feeding her baby either way is madness! What's the alternative then? Babies have to eat. I wouldn't expect to be congratulated for changing her nappies. Yes both BF and FF can be lots of effort but it's non negotiable that your baby has to eat! I really dont feel we should be congratulating ourselves for feeding our babies.
> 
> Congratulations to everyone who has managed to breathe today!
> 
> (just read that back and it sounds as if I'm being lairy but I'm not, I mean it in a jokey way!!) :flower:
> 
> Actually, as many people have said, BF needs encouraging and BF mothers often need encouragement and support as there is often little in real life. I've said it so many times, I don't like the implication that if you bf you are being smug or superior or even 'self congratulatory' - I'd say, what's wrong with congratulating yourself? We're too keen to put ourselves down all the flipping time.
> 
> Yes FF is hard as well (I would have no clue at all) but as has been said already, you can't just give up FF if you are struggling, whereas there are alternatives so people do give up BF if they are struggling. So, if someone makes it through the struggle, why not give them a little encouragement or support?
> 
> And actually, I think we are thinking about this through rose tinted lenses - i.e. mums on here are going to be exceptionally thoughtful and caring, just because they spend so much time considering their parenting. Everyone is forgetting that a large proportion of mums are just not like that and just do not put as much into it. I won't give you any stats for child protection for neglect or emotional abuse in this country (or details of things I have been dealing with just recently), because they are depressing as they are so high. So, you (or anyone reading this) might think it's a given that you'd change your baby's nappy regularly, clean them, give them somewhere safe to sleep, keep them warm, protect them from infection or harm, and wouldn't think that you expect anything for it. It's worth just trying to remember that when thinking about issues like this, because it makes me appreciate good mums (such as you find on here) even more.Click to expand...


Going back to the 'congratulating' though, and I still stand by what I said, and I don't think that feeding your bubba is something to be congratulated, wether it entailed sore nipples or the wrong formula. It's just a necessity that it IS done somehow.

As it happens I've never been congratulated for BF my bubba, but if I did I'd feel a bit of a mug cos we luckily had no problems. :dohh:

I totally get what youre saying about supporting and encouraging someone, but going back to the OP, I really don't think congratulations are in order for anyone who feeds their baby.

(again, hope I'm not coming across as argumentative cos my posts are intended to be lighthearted :flower:)


----------



## RedRose

Apologies am using my phone to post and in the above post the quote should have come first. Cheers.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

suzanne108 said:


> Do you know what? I'm fed up of people complaining about Baby Club :(

Yup, it is getting a bit boring. If people don't want to get a range of opinion that might (shock, horror) lead to a heated debate, then maybe they just could PM someone with their question, who they know does everything exactly the same as them...


----------



## Dopeyjopey

suzanne108 said:


> Do you know what? I'm fed up of people complaining about Baby Club :(

Me too! I love it here. I can understand some people don't like the blunt advice but that doesn't mean every thread should have a dig at baby club :(


----------



## hivechild

Appleblossom, you were one of those who jumped on freckle earlier for using formula and neglect in the same sentence, even when unrelated. Yes, you recanted with her explanation, but now you're deliberately using inflammatory language like breastfeeding brigade and knowing full well that it gets a rise. I know you explained that you don't mean all breastfeeders, but please try to show the same consideration you've asked of others in this discussion.


----------



## Blondie2008

I def think that BF Mothers deserve to have the recognition they have for doing it. I don't know if congratulated is the right word mind. I just think that is SO physically demanding and painful and draining.

FF is too - very hard. But if someone finds BF very painful but battles through anyway then all credit to them. 

My sister amazed me when she breastfed her baby. After the birth the had a blood clot on the brain and was rushed into hospital. She STILL had breast milk expressed and had the baby brought into the hospital so that she could feed him. I was so so proud of her.

I FF btw. Have done since my baby was 1 week old.

xx


----------



## XfairyhopesX

feel like im talking to myself and going in mahooosive circles - its the tone and not the content for the final time lol


----------



## Youngling

Why's this thread still open lol.
I havent even read it but i can get the jist of it
x


----------



## AppleBlossom

Meh, whatever. Leaving this thread now as I have nothing further to say. Exactly the reason I try not to venture into baby club now, too much disagreement and ridiculous threads that go round in circles.


----------



## XfairyhopesX

Youngling said:


> Why's this thread still open lol.
> I havent even read it but i can get the jist of it
> x

LOL :headspin:

That has just made me piss myself laughing!!!! xx


----------



## XfairyhopesX

AppleBlossom said:


> Meh, whatever. Leaving this thread now as I have nothing further to say. Exactly the reason I try not to venture into baby club now, too much disagreement and ridiculous threads that go round in circles.

careful dont dis babyclub :happydance: ;)


----------



## WW1

Dopeyjopey said:


> suzanne108 said:
> 
> 
> Do you know what? I'm fed up of people complaining about Baby Club :(
> 
> Me too! I love it here. I can understand some people don't like the blunt advice but that doesn't mean every thread should have a dig at baby club :(Click to expand...

Agreed :thumbup:


----------



## msfoxymax

OMG can'b believe this 'discussion' is still going on lol. Why not just stop reading it and going around in circles. There are many many many better things to be doing x


----------



## Blondie2008

Q. How do you make a tissue dance?

A. Put a little boogey in it!


----------



## AP

This is so sad, this thread started out good and some were learning from each others methods.


----------



## LankyDoodle

Youngling said:


> Why's this thread still open lol.
> I havent even read it but i can get the jist of it
> x

Why should it be closed just because it's not all :flower: and :hugs: and :thumbup: and :kiss: ?? Is that what people expect baby club to be? I don't see anything too bad going on in this thread. Yes, the last few pages have gone downhill a bit, and it's turning into another of THOSE threads, but why can't people disagree (as is human nature?) without it having to be censored all the time?!


----------



## Youngling

LankyDoodle said:


> Youngling said:
> 
> 
> Why's this thread still open lol.
> I havent even read it but i can get the jist of it
> x
> 
> Why should it be closed just because it's not all :flower: and :hugs: and :thumbup: and :kiss: ?? Is that what people expect baby club to be? I don't see anything too bad going on in this thread. Yes, the last few pages have gone downhill a bit, and it's turning into another of THOSE threads, but why can't people disagree (as is human nature?) without it having to be censored all the time?!Click to expand...

Because we all know how its going to turn out. Just think it will save some upset thats all
x


----------



## XfairyhopesX

LankyDoodle said:


> Youngling said:
> 
> 
> Why's this thread still open lol.
> I havent even read it but i can get the jist of it
> x
> 
> Why should it be closed just because it's not all :flower: and :hugs: and :thumbup: and :kiss: ?? Is that what people expect baby club to be? I don't see anything too bad going on in this thread. Yes, the last few pages have gone downhill a bit, and it's turning into another of THOSE threads, but why can't people disagree (as is human nature?) without it having to be censored all the time?!Click to expand...

i took it lighthearted tbh ..........


----------



## xemmax

LankyDoodle said:


> Why should it be closed just because it's not all :flower: and :hugs: and :thumbup: and :kiss: ??

:rofl: this is brilliant.


----------



## Dopeyjopey

XfairyhopesX said:


> feel like im talking to myself and going in mahooosive circles - its the tone and not the content for the final time lol

In real life it is tone - but in written word you can't hear the tone so content is pretty much all there is to go on. Good advice is good advice whether it is given bluntly or wrapped up in fluffiness and pink ribbons!


----------



## cherryglitter

Dopeyjopey said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> feel like im talking to myself and going in mahooosive circles - its the tone and not the content for the final time lol
> 
> In real life it is tone - but in written word you can't hear the tone so content is pretty much all there is to go on. Good advice is good advice whether it is given bluntly or wrapped up in fluffiness and pink ribbons!Click to expand...

:kiss::flower::hugs::thumbup::angelnot:


----------



## XfairyhopesX

Dopeyjopey said:


> XfairyhopesX said:
> 
> 
> feel like im talking to myself and going in mahooosive circles - its the tone and not the content for the final time lol
> 
> In real life it is tone - but in written word you can't hear the tone so content is pretty much all there is to go on. Good advice is good advice whether it is given bluntly or wrapped up in fluffiness and pink ribbons!Click to expand...

dont agree im afraid... doesnt matter if i dont leave it there... but i think tone / politness is there for all to see and not ott fluffiness:shrug:
anyways got mummys to meet for a nice chat and lunch so i'll leave you with it :)


----------



## Justagirlxx

LankyDoodle said:


> Youngling said:
> 
> 
> Why's this thread still open lol.
> I havent even read it but i can get the jist of it
> x
> 
> Why should it be closed just because it's not all :flower: and :hugs: and :thumbup: and :kiss: ?? Is that what people expect baby club to be? I don't see anything too bad going on in this thread. Yes, the last few pages have gone downhill a bit, and it's turning into another of THOSE threads, but why can't people disagree (as is human nature?) without it having to be censored all the time?!Click to expand...


I completely agree, I think this site is over-censored a bit, peoples e-feelings are bound to get hurt somtimes, it *is* a parenting forum after all!


----------



## aliss

What I meant about calling people out as selfish:

Everyone here is entitled to think someone else has some sort of parenting method or style that is selfish. Let's be realistic - I'm sure ALL of us think at least one thing someone else does is "selfish". We're human, are we not? 

I just don't feel the need to call people out on it. It's not your choice, it's not your life, what are you going to accomplish by holding other people to YOUR standards and styles? 

You accomplish nothing. You know the old bully saying, "they make themselves feel better by trying to make others feel bad"? I think that really applies.

So whether you choose to BF, FF, let one choose you, want an early baby, want a late baby, co sleep, crib sleep, or whatever choice/flavour of the day - do what is right for you and your child _and for God's sake, teach your child to respect the choices of others by setting that example yourself!_. Yes, we all think we are right or we wouldn't think that, but that doesn't give us the right to knock around others that think differently.


----------



## AppleBlossom

One last thing from me... there's a way of putting your point across without sounding rude and offensive and without overly sugar coating as well.

Anyway, enjoy repeating yourself for the next 20 pages ladies :thumbup:


----------



## Justagirlxx

aliss said:


> What I meant about calling people out as selfish:
> 
> Everyone here is entitled to think someone else has some sort of parenting method or style that is selfish. Let's be realistic - I'm sure ALL of us think at least one thing someone else does is "selfish". We're human, are we not?
> 
> I just don't feel the need to call people out on it. It's not your choice, it's not your life, what are you going to accomplish by holding other people to YOUR standards and styles?
> 
> You accomplish nothing. You know the old bully saying, "they make themselves feel better by trying to make others feel bad"? I think that really applies.
> 
> So whether you choose to BF, FF, let one choose you, want an early baby, want a late baby, co sleep, crib sleep, or whatever choice/flavour of the day - do what is right for you and your child _and for God's sake, teach your child to respect the choices of others by setting that example yourself!_. Yes, we all think we are right or we wouldn't think that, but that doesn't give us the right to knock around others that think differently.

Well said aliss!


----------



## hivechild

AppleBlossom said:


> One last thing from me... there's a way of putting your point across without sounding rude and offensive and without overly sugar coating as well.
> 
> Anyway, enjoy repeating yourself for the next 20 pages ladies :thumbup:

Which is what makes it all the more disappointing when someone recognizes the distinction and chooses to be deliberately offensive.

As for rainbows and lollipops, i have no issue with sugar coating (except if it's for my baby :haha:), as long as there's substance to it. Someone else many pages ago already said that it's not especially helpful to someone seeking advice to just be told "do what feels right, you know best." If they did, they wouldn't be asking!


----------



## cabaretmum2b

Returning to the point at hand - I found BFing very difficult to start with, and I like knowing that I went through all of that pain and struggling to make sure my baby got the best start I could give her. I know that FFing is difficult, but in my opinion BFing is a lot more painful, physically draining and emotionally hard. I don't think there is anything wrong with FFing, but I congratulate BFing mothers because I know that they've made sacrifices and in a lot of cases gone to hell and back to give their child the best they can :flower:


----------



## EmmaM2

Ha! we never learn do we - why do we do this to ourselves repeatedly.........37 pages - impressive. 
In response to the original question - i both bf and ff due to low supply and both are extremely challenging. I have had all the crap with both types of feeding from several bouts of mastitis, low supply, 'failure to thrive', poor latch etc to ff with 4 changes of formula, 2 changes of bottle, endless teat changes, comfort milk, worrying about how much air is going in all because of reflux and big digestive difficulties. I can honestly say i think they are both v. difficult but bf feels more issolating as you are the only one that can do it and the responsibility is huge. I am super proud of myself for sticking with it seen as i have to do all the crap that goes with bottle feeding aswell (for a top up after everyfeed in fact its now 2 bottles as i can't mix gaviscon with comfort milk) and it feels nice if anyone lets me know they think its good that i have stuck with it. The ff is tough but it feels as if there are more options, you _can_ change milks, bottles etc,but if your let down is slow/fast with bf you can't change it, you can't switch milks etc so you feel a lot more helpless and just have to push on through. I honestly couldn't give a crap what anyone else does, it is their choice and i respect it whatever the reason.


----------



## Nic1107

If this thread is what passes for "needing locked" these days, maybe the old days weren't better after all! :rofl: (iykwim) I've seen threads get _brutal_, this one's been pretty civil.

I did realize, reading this, that except for BF and cloth, I'm 'one of those' moms too! :shock: We're co-sleeping, baby-wearing, no-CIO, weaned at 6 mos, closer to BLW these days than TW. But I'm missing out on the two biggies, so which kind of mom am I after all? :rofl: It doesn't really matter, everyone here is utterly devoted to their little ones and that is, at the end of the day, the best kind of mom! :flower:


----------



## Missy86

Nic1107 said:


> If this thread is what passes for "needing locked" these days, maybe the old days weren't better after all! :rofl: (iykwim) I've seen threads get _brutal_, this one's been pretty civil.
> 
> I did realize, reading this, that except for BF and cloth, I'm 'one of those' moms too! :shock: We're co-sleeping, baby-wearing, no-CIO, weaned at 6 mos, closer to BLW these days than TW. But I'm missing out on the two biggies, so which kind of mom am I after all? :rofl: It doesn't really matter, everyone here is utterly devoted to their little ones and that is, at the end of the day, the best kind of mom! :flower:

what are the different kinds of mum called


----------



## Dopeyjopey

Missy86 said:


> Nic1107 said:
> 
> 
> If this thread is what passes for "needing locked" these days, maybe the old days weren't better after all! :rofl: (iykwim) I've seen threads get _brutal_, this one's been pretty civil.
> 
> I did realize, reading this, that except for BF and cloth, I'm 'one of those' moms too! :shock: We're co-sleeping, baby-wearing, no-CIO, weaned at 6 mos, closer to BLW these days than TW. But I'm missing out on the two biggies, so which kind of mom am I after all? :rofl: It doesn't really matter, everyone here is utterly devoted to their little ones and that is, at the end of the day, the best kind of mom! :flower:
> 
> what are the different kinds of mum calledClick to expand...

I don't think there are really different 'kinds'. Personally i see the biggest debates between 'parent-led' and 'baby-led'. But just because someone BFs, cosleeps, baby wears etc that doesn't make them baby-led, equally FF, in own room and using a pram doesn't make someone parent-led. Does that make sense? Probably not :rofl:


----------



## Missy86

I have got you Jo, I think my style of parenting is deffo parent led
and I am proud of it


----------



## Dopeyjopey

And i'm baby-led and we get on fine! Haha i don't see why people clash so much over differing opinions :shrug:


----------



## Missy86

I know, Considering how everyone is different in our little group and we never argue I wonder why people argue in baby club


----------



## Dani-lou

Since having my son 6 wks ago I have been surprised by the BF issues. My son was born premature and had to spend time in SCBU although I wanted very much to BF and did for a short time after his birth, BF for me was simply not possible and believe me I tried. Throwing in the towell as some ladies put it was not something I did at all, I got the help of several breast feeding advocates who sat with me and tried to assist. My milk supply was not great, my son had difficulty feeding and latching on and we had the added problem that my son wasnt with me. I expressed what i could while he was in scbu and they feed that to him via a tube - I was determined that he would get my colostrum if nothing else. I contiuned to BF for approx 3wks but I was fighting a losing battle. 

There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should or feel they can rub it in formula fed mums faces - this is just my experience. Breastfeeding your baby doesnt make you a better mum and something to be congratulated, why would they need to be congratulated? I dont understand. 

The reality is not all women are fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed, many women have issues with their breasts/nipples, some women like me have premmies who are seperated from their baby soon after birth, some women have a low supply which simply cannot sustain their babies hunger and some women believe it or not simply dont want to breastfeed.

Please lets not let the issue of "breast is best" cause a divide.


----------



## Nic1107

I 'spose I'm baby-led, but OMG Carmen wouldn't have it any other way! Maybe it's not a case of me being purposely baby-led as a case of I'm just too soft and Carmen always gets her way. :rofl: I just seriously hope that it switches before she's in school, can't have her running the household then! I'll have to put on my mean-mom hat. :)


----------



## Lightworker

just to clarify, low supply does not mean u cant breastfeed, womens bodies are magical things and the body works to produce as much or as little milk as needed- sometimes extra patience, dietary checks, expressing etc is needed but theres no such thing as not enough milk


----------



## Lightworker

edit- my previous post- except for moms with preexisting medical conditions and those with certain implants


----------



## Leesie

huggermomof2 said:


> just to clarify, low supply does not mean u cant breastfeed, womens bodies are magical things and the body works to produce as much or as little milk as needed- sometimes extra patience, dietary checks, expressing etc is needed but theres no such thing as not enough milk

Sorry this is OT but I just have to say - yes there is such a thing as not enough milk, as some mummies on this forum will attest. It's rare but it does happen and no amount of dietary tweaking, patience etc.. will help the problem if a mummy has, for example, insufficient glandular tissue. There are some amazing mummies on this forum that have successfully combi fed with low supply but I can only imagine that it is an uphill battle and not every woman with this problem will have had the support and info she needed to do the combi feeding thing. Just another reason not to judge a mummy's feeding decision either way.


----------



## leelee

Dopeyjopey said:


> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nic1107 said:
> 
> 
> If this thread is what passes for "needing locked" these days, maybe the old days weren't better after all! :rofl: (iykwim) I've seen threads get _brutal_, this one's been pretty civil.
> 
> I did realize, reading this, that except for BF and cloth, I'm 'one of those' moms too! :shock: We're co-sleeping, baby-wearing, no-CIO, weaned at 6 mos, closer to BLW these days than TW. But I'm missing out on the two biggies, so which kind of mom am I after all? :rofl: It doesn't really matter, everyone here is utterly devoted to their little ones and that is, at the end of the day, the best kind of mom! :flower:
> 
> what are the different kinds of mum calledClick to expand...
> 
> I don't think there are really different 'kinds'. Personally i see the biggest debates between 'parent-led' and 'baby-led'. But just because someone BFs, cosleeps, baby wears etc that doesn't make them baby-led, equally FF, in own room and using a pram doesn't make someone parent-led. Does that make sense? Probably not :rofl:Click to expand...

That makes sense to me. I consider that I am baby led but don't do 1/2 the things that people would consider 'baby led'. However, I put my LO at the centre of everything and do what works for him, for example - he needed to be rocked to sleep until he was 10 weeks so I did that. I kept him in my room until I felt he was ready to move, we don't have a strict nap routine, I follow his tired cues and I feed him in the way that works best for him. To me, that is baby led.


----------



## Dani-lou

Leesie said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> just to clarify, low supply does not mean u cant breastfeed, womens bodies are magical things and the body works to produce as much or as little milk as needed- sometimes extra patience, dietary checks, expressing etc is needed but theres no such thing as not enough milk
> 
> Sorry this is OT but I just have to say - yes there is such a thing as not enough milk, as some mummies on this forum will attest. It's rare but it does happen and no amount of dietary tweaking, patience etc.. will help the problem if a mummy has, for example, insufficient glandular tissue. There are some amazing mummies on this forum that have successfully combi fed with low supply but I can only imagine that it is an uphill battle and not every woman with this problem will have had the support and info she needed to do the combi feeding thing. Just another reason not to judge a mummy's feeding decision either way.Click to expand...


Well said. 

Its right womens bodies are magical but they are also VERY DIFFERENT!


----------



## Lightworker

Leesie- i think u missed the addendum to my post which reflects medical conditions as the exception, also i do not/have not stood in judgement of anyone


----------



## katy1310

Dani-lou said:


> Since having my son 6 wks ago I have been surprised by the BF issues. My son was born premature and had to spend time in SCBU although I wanted very much to BF and did for a short time after his birth, BF for me was simply not possible and believe me I tried. Throwing in the towell as some ladies put it was not something I did at all, I got the help of several breast feeding advocates who sat with me and tried to assist. My milk supply was not great, my son had difficulty feeding and latching on and we had the added problem that my son wasnt with me. I expressed what i could while he was in scbu and they feed that to him via a tube - I was determined that he would get my colostrum if nothing else. I contiuned to BF for approx 3wks but I was fighting a losing battle.
> 
> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should or feel they can rub it in formula fed mums faces - this is just my experience. Breastfeeding your baby doesnt make you a better mum and something to be congratulated, why would they need to be congratulated? I dont understand.
> 
> The reality is not all women are fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed, many women have issues with their breasts/nipples, some women like me have premmies who are seperated from their baby soon after birth, some women have a low supply which simply cannot sustain their babies hunger and some women believe it or not simply dont want to breastfeed.
> 
> Please lets not let the issue of "breast is best" cause a divide.

I had a similar experience, my LO was in neonatal for 12 weeks and I expressed for her and eventually went onto BF for a while, but it's so, so hard when your baby isn't with you. You never build up the supply that you would if you were BF from birth, and it's just so clinical sitting at home in the middle of the night expressing, with your baby miles away. I spent a lot of time beating myself up when I eventually had to stop BF Sophie - there were many reasons for me having to stop but I gave it my best shot and I know I did my best for her. xxx


----------



## Leesie

huggermomof2 said:


> Leesie- i think u missed the addendum to my post which reflects medical conditions as the exception, also i do not/have not stood in judgement of anyone

thank you huggermom, I saw your update after I had already posted. I didn't think I implied that you'd judged anyone - or at least I didn't intend to imply that. I was just stating my own opinion on the subject.


----------



## Dani-lou

katy1310 said:


> Dani-lou said:
> 
> 
> Since having my son 6 wks ago I have been surprised by the BF issues. My son was born premature and had to spend time in SCBU although I wanted very much to BF and did for a short time after his birth, BF for me was simply not possible and believe me I tried. Throwing in the towell as some ladies put it was not something I did at all, I got the help of several breast feeding advocates who sat with me and tried to assist. My milk supply was not great, my son had difficulty feeding and latching on and we had the added problem that my son wasnt with me. I expressed what i could while he was in scbu and they feed that to him via a tube - I was determined that he would get my colostrum if nothing else. I contiuned to BF for approx 3wks but I was fighting a losing battle.
> 
> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should or feel they can rub it in formula fed mums faces - this is just my experience. Breastfeeding your baby doesnt make you a better mum and something to be congratulated, why would they need to be congratulated? I dont understand.
> 
> The reality is not all women are fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed, many women have issues with their breasts/nipples, some women like me have premmies who are seperated from their baby soon after birth, some women have a low supply which simply cannot sustain their babies hunger and some women believe it or not simply dont want to breastfeed.
> 
> Please lets not let the issue of "breast is best" cause a divide.
> 
> I had a similar experience, my LO was in neonatal for 12 weeks and I expressed for her and eventually went onto BF for a while, but it's so, so hard when your baby isn't with you. You never build up the supply that you would if you were BF from birth, and it's just so clinical sitting at home in the middle of the night expressing, with your baby miles away. I spent a lot of time beating myself up when I eventually had to stop BF Sophie - there were many reasons for me having to stop but I gave it my best shot and I know I did my best for her. xxxClick to expand...

Now that is something to be congratulated. My baby was no where near as prem but I know how difficult it was for me during his time in SCBU. I did as much as I could for my son and ensured that he got as much breastmilk as he could in the early weeks but not having your baby with you does have a negative impact on your supply. Also with prem babies they have many feeding issues that full term babies do not have, such as digestion, latching etc. My son did have feeding issues and problems with latching on, he was fed via tube and the only way I could give him breastmilk was to express what little I could and pass it down the tube.


----------



## aliss

katy1310 said:


> Dani-lou said:
> 
> 
> Since having my son 6 wks ago I have been surprised by the BF issues. My son was born premature and had to spend time in SCBU although I wanted very much to BF and did for a short time after his birth, BF for me was simply not possible and believe me I tried. Throwing in the towell as some ladies put it was not something I did at all, I got the help of several breast feeding advocates who sat with me and tried to assist. My milk supply was not great, my son had difficulty feeding and latching on and we had the added problem that my son wasnt with me. I expressed what i could while he was in scbu and they feed that to him via a tube - I was determined that he would get my colostrum if nothing else. I contiuned to BF for approx 3wks but I was fighting a losing battle.
> 
> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should or feel they can rub it in formula fed mums faces - this is just my experience. Breastfeeding your baby doesnt make you a better mum and something to be congratulated, why would they need to be congratulated? I dont understand.
> 
> The reality is not all women are fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed, many women have issues with their breasts/nipples, some women like me have premmies who are seperated from their baby soon after birth, some women have a low supply which simply cannot sustain their babies hunger and some women believe it or not simply dont want to breastfeed.
> 
> Please lets not let the issue of "breast is best" cause a divide.
> 
> I had a similar experience, my LO was in neonatal for 12 weeks and I expressed for her and eventually went onto BF for a while, but it's so, so hard when your baby isn't with you. You never build up the supply that you would if you were BF from birth, and it's just so clinical sitting at home in the middle of the night expressing, with your baby miles away. I spent a lot of time beating myself up when I eventually had to stop BF Sophie - there were many reasons for me having to stop but I gave it my best shot and I know I did my best for her. xxxClick to expand...

Aww hun :hugs: I cannot imagine what you went through. I also had to exclusively express after my LO was born with a birth injury but he was still home. I can't imagine having to do it without your baby in the house, I wonder if that inhibits milk production as well. Expressing out of necessity because something happened to the baby is a horribly emotional journey. I remember sitting there pumping, crying. Looking on BnB for expressing information was helpful but it was so hard to see pictures of babies at the breast - I would cry and wonder what I did in a previous life to have a baby that could not do the same... why he deserved to not be given that gift.. why he was in so much pain when other babies were not


----------



## katy1310

aliss said:


> katy1310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dani-lou said:
> 
> 
> Since having my son 6 wks ago I have been surprised by the BF issues. My son was born premature and had to spend time in SCBU although I wanted very much to BF and did for a short time after his birth, BF for me was simply not possible and believe me I tried. Throwing in the towell as some ladies put it was not something I did at all, I got the help of several breast feeding advocates who sat with me and tried to assist. My milk supply was not great, my son had difficulty feeding and latching on and we had the added problem that my son wasnt with me. I expressed what i could while he was in scbu and they feed that to him via a tube - I was determined that he would get my colostrum if nothing else. I contiuned to BF for approx 3wks but I was fighting a losing battle.
> 
> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should or feel they can rub it in formula fed mums faces - this is just my experience. Breastfeeding your baby doesnt make you a better mum and something to be congratulated, why would they need to be congratulated? I dont understand.
> 
> The reality is not all women are fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed, many women have issues with their breasts/nipples, some women like me have premmies who are seperated from their baby soon after birth, some women have a low supply which simply cannot sustain their babies hunger and some women believe it or not simply dont want to breastfeed.
> 
> Please lets not let the issue of "breast is best" cause a divide.
> 
> I had a similar experience, my LO was in neonatal for 12 weeks and I expressed for her and eventually went onto BF for a while, but it's so, so hard when your baby isn't with you. You never build up the supply that you would if you were BF from birth, and it's just so clinical sitting at home in the middle of the night expressing, with your baby miles away. I spent a lot of time beating myself up when I eventually had to stop BF Sophie - there were many reasons for me having to stop but I gave it my best shot and I know I did my best for her. xxxClick to expand...
> 
> Aww hun :hugs: I cannot imagine what you went through. I also had to exclusively express after my LO was born with a birth injury but he was still home. I can't imagine having to do it without your baby in the house, I wonder if that inhibits milk production as well. Expressing out of necessity because something happened to the baby is a horribly emotional journey. I remember sitting there pumping, crying. Looking on BnB for expressing information was helpful but it was so hard to see pictures of babies at the breast - I would cry and wonder what I did in a previous life to have a baby that could not do the same... why he deserved to not be given that gift.. why he was in so much pain when other babies were notClick to expand...

Aww, hugs to you too :hugs: I hope you and your baby are both ok. I think expressing away from your baby must inhibit milk production as well. I remember really really struggling to produce much for the first 3 weeks, then when Sophie was 3 weeks old, I was allowed to hold her for the first time, and I went to express straight after that and got 100ml - I'd only ever been getting about 20-40 max before that. xxxx


----------



## aliss

katy1310 said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> katy1310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dani-lou said:
> 
> 
> Since having my son 6 wks ago I have been surprised by the BF issues. My son was born premature and had to spend time in SCBU although I wanted very much to BF and did for a short time after his birth, BF for me was simply not possible and believe me I tried. Throwing in the towell as some ladies put it was not something I did at all, I got the help of several breast feeding advocates who sat with me and tried to assist. My milk supply was not great, my son had difficulty feeding and latching on and we had the added problem that my son wasnt with me. I expressed what i could while he was in scbu and they feed that to him via a tube - I was determined that he would get my colostrum if nothing else. I contiuned to BF for approx 3wks but I was fighting a losing battle.
> 
> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should or feel they can rub it in formula fed mums faces - this is just my experience. Breastfeeding your baby doesnt make you a better mum and something to be congratulated, why would they need to be congratulated? I dont understand.
> 
> The reality is not all women are fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed, many women have issues with their breasts/nipples, some women like me have premmies who are seperated from their baby soon after birth, some women have a low supply which simply cannot sustain their babies hunger and some women believe it or not simply dont want to breastfeed.
> 
> Please lets not let the issue of "breast is best" cause a divide.
> 
> I had a similar experience, my LO was in neonatal for 12 weeks and I expressed for her and eventually went onto BF for a while, but it's so, so hard when your baby isn't with you. You never build up the supply that you would if you were BF from birth, and it's just so clinical sitting at home in the middle of the night expressing, with your baby miles away. I spent a lot of time beating myself up when I eventually had to stop BF Sophie - there were many reasons for me having to stop but I gave it my best shot and I know I did my best for her. xxxClick to expand...
> 
> Aww hun :hugs: I cannot imagine what you went through. I also had to exclusively express after my LO was born with a birth injury but he was still home. I can't imagine having to do it without your baby in the house, I wonder if that inhibits milk production as well. Expressing out of necessity because something happened to the baby is a horribly emotional journey. I remember sitting there pumping, crying. Looking on BnB for expressing information was helpful but it was so hard to see pictures of babies at the breast - I would cry and wonder what I did in a previous life to have a baby that could not do the same... why he deserved to not be given that gift.. why he was in so much pain when other babies were notClick to expand...
> 
> Aww, hugs to you too :hugs: I hope you and your baby are both ok. I think expressing away from your baby must inhibit milk production as well. I remember really really struggling to produce much for the first 3 weeks, then when Sophie was 3 weeks old, I was allowed to hold her for the first time, and I went to express straight after that and got 100ml - I'd only ever been getting about 20-40 max before that. xxxxClick to expand...

Thanks :hugs:

I really do think that makes all the difference and there's no coincidence your supply increased when she came home. Maybe you had the Medela Symphony hospital grade (this is what I had too), it even comes with a picture folder so you can at least look at your baby's picture as you pump. I also struggled with PND after what happened and I think the PND (lack of bonding) really did a number on my supply. He was home, but it was like I couldn't connect to him or bond as he was screaming 24/7. Ugh.

AAhh.. I'm going to go give major cuddles when he wakes up! I'm teary!


----------



## KittyVentura

Dani-lou said:


> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should

This sums things up very very well. Don't get me wrong, not all BF mums are like this but at times on here and in real life I've found this fact to be very true.

I was so determined to BF, not from research or knowledge or MW encouragement, but from mums I know who have breastfed and some BF mums on here that posted while I was pregnant. I felt I'd be judged and would be a failure for not BF, this is what other BF mums made me think and feel. Of course I wanted to because of the benefits to baby but the pressure I put on myself to succeed or be judged a "failure" came from other BF women.

I did give it MY best shot... came through bleeding nips, soreness, exhaustion etc. The normal stuff new BF mums experience and actually had come out the other end and things were getting easier. I had to give up because I got sick. I couldn't then cope with the demands. Some may have been able to still keep at it, but for me that was the killer. Shame really. When I had to give up, I felt emotionally destroyed. I felt like a failure and I'm just starting to feel better. 

I don't think it's intentional at all but I don't think BF mums realise the stress and damage that they can unintentionally cause other new mums with some of the comments they make and how things often get worded. Even when a new mum posts for a bit of advice on something like "topping up" - The intentional encouragement to stay EBF can come across at times in a way that would make a vunerable new mum feel like they are doing something grossly wrong by doing something that they want or need to do.

It's such a hard thing, having a newborn, that it's really unfair to make anyone feel like less of a mum because they cannot, for whatever reason, meet these "ideals" of a perfect parent. We all do what we can for our babies and ourselves and that's the best we can do.

I think the view should be taken that you have to do what's right for mum AND baby. 

Anyway... I personally think all mums of small babies deserve congratulating. Lets not lie - however you feed them - it is blooming hard work. xx


----------



## LankyDoodle

I have never seen any mum on here, whichever way they parent, tell someone else that if they don't do something then they will be a failure. Perhaps this is another example of how our own sensitivities affect the way we interpret the words of others. 
I certainly know that I do not comment on posts with the intention of making people feel bad for not breastfeeding or whatever. But if people interpret my posts as such then that's not something I can help, and I won't stop posting advice about breastfeeding 'just in case' it offends. If I, or others were setting out to deliberately upset others then probably, yeh, we'd have every reason to rein it in. But I know I for one don't.
When I didn't have the birth I wanted, I felt like a failure and 'blamed' my NCT classes. But it wasn't necessarily the fault of the NCT curriculum. I'd just set myself up for having the exact birth they prepare you for, and while I tried to be a bit open-minded, in the end I wasn't as open-minded as I think you need to be when you're pregnant/a parent. So it was my own fault I felt like a failure. I'd done nothing wrong. The NCT had done nothing wrong. My expectation of how they and the others in my class/on here would view me, is what was wrong. :)


----------



## leelee

LankyDoodle said:


> I have never seen any mum on here, whichever way they parent, tell someone else that if they don't do something then they will be a failure. Perhaps this is another example of how our own sensitivities affect the way we interpret the words of others.
> I certainly know that I do not comment on posts with the intention of making people feel bad for not breastfeeding or whatever. But if people interpret my posts as such then that's not something I can help, and I won't stop posting advice about breastfeeding 'just in case' it offends. If I, or others were setting out to deliberately upset others then probably, yeh, we'd have every reason to rein it in. But I know I for one don't.
> When I didn't have the birth I wanted, I felt like a failure and 'blamed' my NCT classes. But it wasn't necessarily the fault of the NCT curriculum. I'd just set myself up for having the exact birth they prepare you for, and while I tried to be a bit open-minded, in the end I wasn't as open-minded as I think you need to be when you're pregnant/a parent. So it was my own fault I felt like a failure. I'd done nothing wrong. The NCT had done nothing wrong. My expectation of how they and the others in my class/on here would view me, is what was wrong. :)

I have to say - I think you always word your posts very well and can't see how they would cause offence. Other people don't, which is a shame.


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## Lu28

KittyVentura said:


> Dani-lou said:
> 
> 
> There seems to be so much pressure on women to breastfeed and ironically enough its not coming from the medical professionals its coming from fellow women, fellow mums who just because they are lucky enough to breastfeed feel everyone else should
> 
> This sums things up very very well. Don't get me wrong, not all BF mums are like this but at times on here and in real life I've found this fact to be very true.
> 
> I was so determined to BF, not from research or knowledge or MW encouragement, but from mums I know who have breastfed and some BF mums on here that posted while I was pregnant. I felt I'd be judged and would be a failure for not BF, this is what other BF mums made me think and feel. Of course I wanted to because of the benefits to baby but the pressure I put on myself to succeed or be judged a "failure" came from other BF women.
> 
> I did give it MY best shot... came through bleeding nips, soreness, exhaustion etc. The normal stuff new BF mums experience and actually had come out the other end and things were getting easier. I had to give up because I got sick. I couldn't then cope with the demands. Some may have been able to still keep at it, but for me that was the killer. Shame really. When I had to give up, I felt emotionally destroyed. I felt like a failure and I'm just starting to feel better.
> 
> I don't think it's intentional at all but I don't think BF mums realise the stress and damage that they can unintentionally cause other new mums with some of the comments they make and how things often get worded. *Even when a new mum posts for a bit of advice on something like "topping up" - The intentional encouragement to stay EBF can come across at times in a way that would make a vunerable new mum feel like they are doing something grossly wrong by doing something that they want or need to do.*
> 
> It's such a hard thing, having a newborn, that it's really unfair to make anyone feel like less of a mum because they cannot, for whatever reason, meet these "ideals" of a perfect parent. We all do what we can for our babies and ourselves and that's the best we can do.
> 
> I think the view should be taken that you have to do what's right for mum AND baby.
> 
> Anyway... I personally think all mums of small babies deserve congratulating. Lets not lie - however you feed them - it is blooming hard work. xxClick to expand...

I honestly think the ladies who think that just because they've managed to bf, everyone should, are few and far between.

The trouble with trying to offer advice on things like topping up with formula is that advice needs to be given to let the mum in question know that the more she tops up, the less likely it is she will ever be able to exclusively bf. Not to give that advice would lead to a mum weeks down the line who may be incredibly disappointed by this when it could have been prevented. Being told that topping up isn't the thing to do if you eventually want to ebf is difficult advice to hear (I was one of the ones being given this advice by the way) but it's necessary. Mum can then decide whether or not she actually WANTS to exclusively bf. And again, I think the ladies who are critical of combo feeding are rare enough :flower:


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## ellie

^^ I agree Lu, I think if you post on here you will get infomration which may not be want you want to hear, but you are then able to make a properly informed choice with info on all sides.
And ^^ what lankydoodle said! is there a "ditto" smiley lol


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## andbabymakes3

I personally really enjoy the debating aspect of baby club. Admittedly, I disagree massively with some of the opinions on here (as happens in real life too!) but if we were all the same - what a bloody boring forum (and world) would this be.

Yes, sometimes people may post replies which cause offence - but that's because everyone has a different way of communicating their ideas. I know there have been many times when I have misconstrued texts/emails from friends, and vice versa - and they are people I have known for years. So if you can misconstrue a text/email from a friend, then of course you can misconstrue a post on a forum from a person you have never met/spoken to. 

A few times, I have posted things and people have given what, at the time, I perceived as snotty replies, but...if I don't want opinions/replies, then I shouldn't bother posting.

However, as I have said time and time again - a little bit of consideration for other peoples feelings makes a huge difference. Not sugar coating, or wrapping in pink fluffy clouds and rainbows etc - just treating people as you want to be treated yourself, and speaking to them respectfully.


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## Justagirlxx

I really love the blinkie "Blessed to Breastfeed" out of all the breastfeeding blinkies on here. Thats the one I would have if I were fortunate enough to be able to continue breastfeeding my son. I do congratulate all of the breastfeeding mommies out there, it is tough work! But I also think that all the formula feeding mommies do not get the recognition they deserve for all of the hard work they do feeding their babies! Whichever way you feed your baby, we are all working very hard and all deserve a pat on the back! 

I do not like the fact that I feel as though I have to justify why I feed my son formula to breastfeeding moms. I don't feel as though many of them take into account that they really are blessed to be able to breastfeed. My son truely would have starved if I had not given him formula, in fact he _was_ starving those first two weeks when he was EBF, and was loosing weight rapidly. No matter how hard I tried he just wasn't getting enough. I had 3 different lactation consultants and none of them knew what was wrong. They all kept telling me to just keep offering the breast over and over, even though he was very dehydrated and loosing weight daily, and screaming constantly in hunger. I finally stood up for myself and did what in my heart I knew to be best for my son, said enough was enough, he is starving, and if I cant feed him with my milk I will feed him the only way I can, with formula. There is a fine line between being supportive towards breastfeeding and actually putting breastfeeding ABOVE the health of the child. I absolutely hate it when I see people on here telling struggling moms who's child isn't gaining weight, isnt thriving, to just keep at it and to absolutely NEVER EVER EVER give formula. To me that is just plain foolish. If the mother is showing signs of insufficient supply or insufficient suck or for whatever reason the baby isn't thriving - formula is a WONDERFUL thing. Not all women are physically capable of breastfeeding their babies. I wish so much I was blessed to breastfeed but I refuse to be ashamed or guilty that I wasn't.


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## Lu28

Justagirlxx said:


> I really love the blinkie "Blessed to Breastfeed" out of all the breastfeeding blinkies on here. Thats the one I would have if I were fortunate enough to be able to continue breastfeeding my son. I do congratulate all of the breastfeeding mommies out there, it is tough work! But I also think that all the formula feeding mommies do not get the recognition they deserve for all of the hard work they do feeding their babies! Whichever way you feed your baby, we are all working very hard and all deserve a pat on the back!
> 
> *I do not like the fact that I feel as though I have to justify why I feed my son formula to breastfeeding moms. *

Why is it you feel as though you need to justify yourself? Just curious as most bfing mums I know honestly aren't bothered about why others use formula. I was at a wedding when Aisling was 7 months old and was bfing her and I swear I almost had a queue of ladies taking turn in telling me why they didnt/couldn't bf or why they had stopped earlier than 7 months - I just wanted to make an announcement that I just didn't care, I was bfing my baby, that's what worked for us and without wanting to be rude, I didn't care how they'd fed theirs! 



> I don't feel as though many of them take into account that they really are blessed to be able to breastfeed. My son truely would have starved if I had not given him formula, in fact he _was_ starving those first two weeks when he was EBF, and was loosing weight rapidly. No matter how hard I tried he just wasn't getting enough. I had 3 different lactation consultants and none of them knew what was wrong. They all kept telling me to just keep offering the breast over and over, even though he was very dehydrated and loosing weight daily, and screaming constantly in hunger. I finally stood up for myself and did what in my heart I knew to be best for my son, said enough was enough, he is starving, and if I cant feed him with my milk I will feed him the only way I can, with formula. *There is a fine line between being supportive towards breastfeeding and actually putting breastfeeding ABOVE the health of the child. I absolutely hate it when I see people on here telling struggling moms who's child isn't gaining weight, isnt thriving, to just keep at it and to absolutely NEVER EVER EVER give formula.* To me that is just plain foolish. If the mother is showing signs of insufficient supply or insufficient suck or for whatever reason the baby isn't thriving - formula is a WONDERFUL thing. Not all women are physically capable of breastfeeding their babies. I wish so much I was blessed to breastfeed but I refuse to be ashamed or guilty that I wasn't.

I absolutely agree with you that there can be a danger of placing the importance of bfing over the health of the baby if LO just isn't thriving. But there's a huge difference between not gaining large amounts of weight and not thriving. Aisling gained very very little between 4 and 7 months and was very skinny, you could see her ribs. BUT she was thriving, happy, meeting all of her milestones and in those circumstances I'm glad I stuck at ebf and that I had ladies supporting me in that decision here because I was constantly accused of starving her by family and friends in real life


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## bky

I'd agree that I like the blessed to breastfeed one best. I feel like I have to justify as well. In regards to not being able to fully feed my baby on breastmilk alone people have told me that: I didn't try hard enough, was doing something wrong, they overcame their problems so why can't I..etc etc etc
I've tried to give people going through similar things as I did advice (because I wanted some other than 'try harder' when I knew things were wrong), but have been told off enough that I don't like to anymore.

I get really sick of people looking down their nose at me. I had it insinuated at me that I don't deserve a blinkie because I have to supplement. How freaking stupid is that? I'm pretty sure what I'm doing is fairly difficult, so I made my own damn ticker.
I ought to be proud of what I'm doing, but a lot of attitudes just leave me feeling ashamed of my inability, with a side of lingering guilt because the common opinion among backseat driving breast feeders is that it's mismanagement (aka my fault) that I don't have enough milk.


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## Lu28

Bky, that's just disgusting that people have said or insinuated those things :hugs:


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## bky

huggermomof2 said:


> just to clarify, low supply does not mean u cant breastfeed, womens bodies are magical things and the body works to produce as much or as little milk as needed- sometimes extra patience, dietary checks, expressing etc is needed but theres *no such thing as not enough milk*

This is absolutely not true. There is the 'not trying hard enough' undercurrent to your statement. 

There are structural (breast tissue) and hormonal issues that can cause insufficient milk to sustain an at term infant. Most women will not know they have problems until they try, and even then will get that same belief pushed at them by midwives, doctors and inexperienced lactation consultants. It is true that it doesn't mean you can't breastfeed (though it can be difficult to maintain breast milk when supplementing).

It is true that most low supply is caused by inefficient milk removal, but it's all the same result and, sadly it is very difficult to get a diagnosis.


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## K1mberley

I FF, i really really wanted to BF but got no help and support in the hospital whatsoever and my son was screaming with hunger so ended up asking them for a bottle, they certainly dont presurise you in my local hosp and i kinda wish they did tbh, but my son is happy and healthy being formula fed.


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## Justagirlxx

Bky... that is absolutely HORRIBLE that people have insinuated that and honestly if ANYONE deserves having a BF blinkie its you! I found combi feeding to be absolutely impossible and that is amazing you have stuck with it for so long and put so much effort into giving your LO as much milk as possible with low supply. :hugs:


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## pheobe

huggermomof2 said:


> just to clarify, low supply does not mean u cant breastfeed, womens bodies are magical things and the body works to produce as much or as little milk as needed- sometimes extra patience, dietary checks, expressing etc is needed but *theres no such thing as not enough milk*



somewhat inaccurate


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## LankyDoodle

The reason i have the blessed blinkie IS that I feel blessed, especially because it was only chance that her tongue tie was found. 
My baby had weight gain issues- see my Sig- but she was still healthy, alert and had decent output. I dont feel i was risking her health by continuing breastfeeding. I did so with lots of research and chatting to hv. My own experience makes me advise others the way i do- I encourage to look at the whole pictureand get medical opinion, but to feel confident to keep going when possible. We all need encouragement sometimes and i really think that's all people try to do, but can be misread. 
Sorry for quick reply but I am on my phone.x


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## CocoaOne

I think it's sad that there seems to be an 'all or nothing' mentality when it comes to BF. Even giving a tiny amount of BM is better than none at all - BKY you deserve a BF blinkie, it's not like there are rules which say you have to BF exclusively to have one. Thankfully, we haven't got BF police! :haha:

I personally don't expect any congratulation from anyone, but I am proud of myself for sticking with BFing. Before I had LO, I knew no one my age that BF so it's been hard having no one to talk to about it (thank god for BandB!) and it would have been easier in some aspects to FF, I could hand some feeds over to OH, go to work meetings without taking LO and getting my boob out during the meeting blush:), go shopping on my own, sleep longer than 2-4 hours at a time (possibly), not feel overwhelmed that this LO is utterly dependent on me - if I died then she would go hungry until she learnt to suck a bottle teat. 

We all have it just as bad as each other - some people look down on FF mums for 'not bothering' with BF, some people think women who BF are perverts and should never leave the house. As long as you and your LO is happy, who cares!


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## Lightworker

BKY- first of all- immediately under that post i qualified my statement by excepting maternal medical conditions. secondly- i did NOT imply that u or anyone else did not try hard enough! if u feel that the implication was there, its down to YOUR own insecurities- i am not responsible for them- frankly getting tired of defensive people- gracefully bowing out


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## Feltzy

OT but Lankydoodle I love your siggy 'If we threw all our problems in a pile with everyone else's, we'd grab ours back'. That's so true!


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## Leesie

bky said:


> I get really sick of people looking down their nose at me. I had it insinuated at me that I don't deserve a blinkie because I have to supplement.

I'm absolutely horrified that there are people out there that think like this :nope: Btw I love to read your posts about BF'ing as I think what you're doing is great!


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## Mumof42009

I expressed with all mine because of them being in scbu with my ds, I breastfed him then found out I was making him ill as he had severe dairy allergy even cutting things out my diet didn't help as it made me ill and my milk started to dry up, I did have to give up. He has ended up on special formula which only my doc can prescribe even though he has been on it over a year I still have problems getting him to take it. I wish I could've carried on Breastfeeding but doesn't work out for some mothers


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## xbabybumpx

just managed to read the whole thread. as long as your babies are being fed i couldint give a flying fig wether its out of the breast or bottle xx


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## xbabybumpx

the one thing i dont like reading is that alot of women on this thread are explaining why they ff,or why they no longer bf. you dont have to explain yourself to anyone! the only one i justify myself to is myself!! xx


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## MissDX

I totally understand why people do it and I don't really mind. It only really bothers me when people look at me as less of a mother for not breastfeeding. I'd have loved to do it, but sadly was unable to (tied milk ducts) and I hate being made to feel bad for something I couldn't do :nope:

I have to say, after my first was born and we'd spent a two days trying to breast feed her I told the midwife I wanted to bottle feed so she could actually HAVE a feed. She later told me "Well done" for trying and making the best decision as it was not benefitting anyone for me to keep on trying. It was nice to have some positive words for forumla feeding for a change!!!


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## lkb21

I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....

I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me. 

But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....

I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....


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## Missy86

I think that we dont hear about all the babies dieing, why would we so many die in third world countries anyway


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## Mum2b_Claire

lkb21 said:


> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....

Thing is, in other societies, another lactating woman would then BF a baby who couldn't be fed by its mum.

I can assure you that sometimes, babies 'just won't latch on'. Mine wouldn't. She just arched away from me and cried.


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## louandivy

And lets not forget in third world countries there is very sadly high infant mortality rates


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## aliss

And their mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters would all help them with latching issues. Half of us don't even hold a baby until our 20's, we've really lost the family support in our society

Others would nurse for them. 

And, people forget, some babies in 3rd world countries would die of malnutrition OR be given goat's milk (a popular substitute).

Yes, in western countries, women are quicker to turn to formula if BF isn't working - I think that's pretty clear - because it is affordable and available. However, life is certainly not rosy for those women who have poor alternatives...


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## xbabybumpx

lkb21 said:


> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....

Thousands of babies die in third world countries due to starvation. so obviously the mothers dont have a full supply do they? I found your post quite rude tbh


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## lkb21

xbabybumpx said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Thousands of babies die in third world countries due to starvation. so obviously the mothers dont have a full supply do they? I found your post quite rude tbhClick to expand...

So is it nein suggested, that we are so flawed as a species, that such a large number of us are actually physically incapable of feeding our young?


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## SKATERBUN

There doesnt seem to be much empathy either when it comes to BF, unless you have a really great mum who can show you how or equally someone you are close to whos really patient then you have to rely on hospital MW's etc who can sometimes come across as blunt, forceful and judgemental.
I was so exhausted by the whole process i was on the verge of depression and was even starting to hate being a mother as I believe not being able to BF was total failure for both me and LO's wellbeing.
the support on here has been fantastic and ladies around the forum do understand that it doesnt always come naturally and their are problems which dont always go away so easily.
To the poster above - In 3rd world countries, I agree there is a lot of support from larger family networks and other mums who will step in and co feed, and yes sadly a lot of infants will die through malnourishment. I think its a generalisation that the western world gives up as formula is so accessable :flower:


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## louandivy

lkb21 said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Thousands of babies die in third world countries due to starvation. so obviously the mothers dont have a full supply do they? I found your post quite rude tbhClick to expand...
> 
> So is it nein suggested, that we are so flawed as a species, that such a large number of us are actually physically incapable of feeding our young?Click to expand...

Its an interesting thought actually!


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## Lu28

lkb21 said:


> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Thousands of babies die in third world countries due to starvation. so obviously the mothers dont have a full supply do they? I found your post quite rude tbhClick to expand...
> 
> So is it nein suggested, that we are so flawed as a species, that such a large number of us are actually physically incapable of feeding our young?Click to expand...

Yes it's a design flaw but not a particularly bad one when in places where formula isn't an option, there are many many other bfing women in the community who will happily bf the baby on mum's behalf. It's really only in Western society that bfing is such an individual act, it used to be much more of a community thing with every bfing woman also being a 'wet nurse'.


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## Nic1107

Just because the majority of people are capable of providing sufficient nutrition, doesn't mean no one isn't!! And for some of us, the problem isn't ours but our babies'. As in my case. I thank God for bottles with fast-flow teats; she wasn't strong enough to get milk from me when she did try briefly; she's not strong enough now to get juice from a sippy cup. So my baby may be flawed, but she's alive, and I'm bloody well thankful for that.


----------



## lkb21

Lu28 said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Thousands of babies die in third world countries due to starvation. so obviously the mothers dont have a full supply do they? I found your post quite rude tbhClick to expand...
> 
> So is it nein suggested, that we are so flawed as a species, that such a large number of us are actually physically incapable of feeding our young?Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it's a design flaw but not a particularly bad one when in places where formula isn't an option, there are many many other bfing women in the community who will happily bf the baby on mum's behalf. It's really only in Western society that bfing is such an individual act, it used to be much more of a community thing with every bfing woman also being a 'wet nurse'.Click to expand...

Is it scientific fact that we are flawed in this way? Not berating, genuinely interested to know, I'm not that kind of person who cannot stand down from a point if proven wrong. I see this as healthy discussion.... Always good to learn somethin new....


----------



## fifie123

Nothing or anybody in the world was made to perfection, there are gooing to be flaws ( such as babys not latching, low milk supply) that unfortunatley can not be helped, such as natural disasters, it's no ones fault it's just nature, x


----------



## aliss

Lu28 said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xbabybumpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....
> 
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but its funny that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Thousands of babies die in third world countries due to starvation. so obviously the mothers dont have a full supply do they? I found your post quite rude tbhClick to expand...
> 
> So is it nein suggested, that we are so flawed as a species, that such a large number of us are actually physically incapable of feeding our young?Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it's a design flaw but not a particularly bad one when in places where formula isn't an option, there are many many other bfing women in the community who will happily bf the baby on mum's behalf. It's really only in Western society that bfing is such an individual act, it used to be much more of a community thing with every bfing woman also being a 'wet nurse'.Click to expand...

And when a famous Western woman breaks that tradition, what a stir it causes, as if it was an usual thing to do!

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009...eeds-a_n_165676.html?show_comment_id=20705635


----------



## lkb21

Nic1107 said:


> Just because the majority of people are capable of providing sufficient nutrition, doesn't mean no one isn't!! And for some of us, the problem isn't ours but our babies'. As in my case. I thank God for bottles with fast-flow teats; she wasn't strong enough to get milk from me when she did try briefly; she's not strong enough now to get juice from a sippy cup. So my baby may be flawed, but she's alive, and I'm bloody well thankful for that.

I think we both know that I wasn't refering to anybodys baby as flawed! I was refering to our species, if you want to get offended as a human, go ahead, but please dont be offended as a mother.... I think its pretty clear thats not what I was implying. 

And as i said.... I'm not saying these issues don't happen, I kust find it hard to believe that they occure so often and to so many people!


----------



## Dopeyjopey

Lkb21 that is such an interesting point. I believe it is 1-2% of the human population physically cannot BF. I wonder what the rate is for other mammals and what happens to their young.


----------



## bky

Dopeyjopey said:


> Lkb21 that is such an interesting point. I believe it is 1-2% of the human population physically cannot BF. I wonder what the rate is for other mammals and what happens to their young.

I don't know that that is really an accurate number. I think it's actually closer to 5% that don't have a full supply (on the mother's side of the equation). The rates for insufficient glandular tissue alone are comparable to the amount of babies born with Downs syndrome. A further portion have hormonal difficulties (about 1/3 of women with PCOS suffer from low supply, and if about 10% of women have PCOS that makes another potential 3%). On the baby side, 10-15% of people have some form of tongue or lip tie which can make milk removal less efficient than it could be. It is a smaller number that go undiagnosed and/or are severe enough/also have a mother with lower supply to cause milk supply/weight problems. That's not even starting on the traumatic births!

The 98% figure comes from Sweden and Norway which have, and this is a very important distinction, a 98% breastfeeding _initiation_ rate.
If you look at their 4-6 month exclusive figures it's around 70-50% still exclusively BFeeding. Sorry, I just want that 98% figure to die as it's based on the assumption that those that are able to start breastfeeding are able to continue exclusively (excluding other factors such as work and appropriate support)

I'm certainly a statistical point in my country's 94% breastfeeding initiation rate. I started, but can't do it on my milk alone.

To the point about 3rd world countries, I think you'll find the under 2 year mortality rate is rather higher than developed countries. Who knows how much of that is due to low milk supply. Many people find no issue with believing in oversupply, but don't find low supply plausible.:shrug:

Farmers know that some cows aren't good milkers, so why not people?


----------



## aliss

Thanks SO MUCH for that bky, as someone who also had a poor supply! 

Yes the rates may be low... even 5% sounds low.. but that is still MILLIONS of mothers world-wide each year :( When you consider a 6 billion population, that's is a huge amount. 

I know for a fact that in my mother's country Hungary, babies whose mothers did not have sufficient supply (or any supply) were given goat's milk. Goat's milk! So those that did survive faced malnutrition and deficiencies


----------



## Sherileigh

lkb21 said:


> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'.* Funny that.....*
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but *its funny *that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....

Oh yeah, hilarious...:dohh: I pumped my BM for my son for 9 whole months!! I worked my boobs off and not one part of me thought it funny that my baby 'just won't latch on!'. Some of us were genuinely upset (and still am) that I couldn't BF the old fashioned way. My son would NOT latch. It was through no fault of my own. I suppose in another culture we would've starved him and maybe eventually he would've...but clearly that was never an option to us. I know you're just talking, but you're being a bit insensitive hun. There are a lot of women who tried really really hard to BF. I'm guessing that the point you're trying to get at is that some women give up too quickly as there is an option. Yep, maybe, who knows. I'm sure as hell glad there is an option for those that can't do it. I know what it feels like to be concerned about how your baby was going to eat, and it's not fun.


----------



## bky

People may find this interesting: Low supply and alternative feeding methods are nothing new. At least we don't use pap boats (or pap!) any more!
https://www.babybottle-museum.co.uk/


----------



## Leesie

lkb21 said:


> In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'. Funny that.....

I get what you're saying lkb21 but there are other factors at play. For instance, women in 3rd world countries usually have very few interventions while giving birth. IMO (and I think there have been studies to back this up) babies who have been born completely naturally generally latch on better, and the BF'ing relationship is off to a better start. I also think (and this is just my opinion, so feel free to differ) in 3rd world countries the women are more active, even during pregnancy, they often walk miles every day and their bodies are simply better prepared for childbirth. 

We have many luxuries in the 1st world, but a less than active lifestyle because of motor cars, public transport etc.., epidurals, pethidine, and even c-sections (although there's no question that emergency c-sections save lives) can start a vicious cycle that sets BF'ing up for failure. 

I certainly have the sense that the pethidine and epidural I had during labour inhibited my LO when it came to latching on and feeding. He looked totally doped up and he didn't latch until 48 hrs after birth. 

Btw I was born and raised in a third world country and have a ton of respect for how the women in the poorer parts of that society deal with pregnancy, childbirth and nursing. We could do with taking a leaf out of their books. And just to add, 3rd world country doesn't automatically equal starving babies - just saying...

ETA: re-reading my post I'm worried I came across as implying that we as mums are at fault for having lifestyles that are not BF'ing-friendly and that's not what I mean at all. I just wanted to point out that modern 1st world lifestyle and society are not terribly conducive to or supportive of BF'ing. This extends also to situations where women have to, out of financial need, return to work before they have been able to establish a BF'ing relationship with their LO. In many ways we're set up for BF'ing failure. All the more reason for us to support eachother's feeding decisions (whether BF or FF) and for those of us who are passionate about BF'ing to continue to support and encourage those who want to BF. 

Sorry totally long-winded post.


----------



## Lightworker

just had to pop back in! Leesie i think that was very well said and accurate as im from a developing country myself


----------



## leelee

Sherileigh said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'.* Funny that.....*
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but *its funny *that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Oh yeah, hilarious...:dohh: I pumped my BM for my son for 9 whole months!! I worked my boobs off and not one part of me thought it funny that my baby 'just won't latch on!'. Some of us were genuinely upset (and still am) that I couldn't BF the old fashioned way. My son would NOT latch. It was through no fault of my own. I suppose in another culture we would've starved him and maybe eventually he would've...but clearly that was never an option to us. I know you're just talking, but you're being a bit insensitive hun. There are a lot of women who tried really really hard to BF. I'm guessing that the point you're trying to get at is that some women give up too quickly as there is an option. Yep, maybe, who knows. I'm sure as hell glad there is an option for those that can't do it. I know what it feels like to be concerned about how your baby was going to eat, and it's not fun.Click to expand...

I know - Lkb21 thinks she is a comedian. Some babies will not latch so I would like to know the statistics for that. I don't want to think what would have happened if we were living in another country with no access to formula :( 

I am actually speechless at your post. There is an undercurrent of 'people don't try hard enough' wrapped up in a passive aggressive post. Why don't you just come right out with it and say exactly what you think instead of what you are saying.


----------



## lkb21

Sherileigh said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'.* Funny that.....*
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but *its funny *that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Oh yeah, hilarious...:dohh: I pumped my BM for my son for 9 whole months!! I worked my boobs off and not one part of me thought it funny that my baby 'just won't latch on!'. Some of us were genuinely upset (and still am) that I couldn't BF the old fashioned way. My son would NOT latch. It was through no fault of my own. I suppose in another culture we would've starved him and maybe eventually he would've...but clearly that was never an option to us. I know you're just talking, but you're being a bit insensitive hun. There are a lot of women who tried really really hard to BF. I'm guessing that the point you're trying to get at is that some women give up too quickly as there is an option. Yep, maybe, who knows. I'm sure as hell glad there is an option for those that can't do it. I know what it feels like to be concerned about how your baby was going to eat, and it's not fun.Click to expand...

His, im sorry i upset you, bur my post wasn't aimed at people who GENUINELY have problems. As I've said, these problems do exist, I'm just not havin that its on the scale that we are led to believe. 

I think that many women who do jus give up, don't try ,cba
etc, feel that they need to have a reason why they gave up. No one will. say, I found it too hard, I was too tired, just didn't want too....they feel they have to have a medical excuse peepared. This isn't me spouting nonsense.... Ive just done some breastfeeding peer suppoet training. This doesnt make me an expert but the lactation specialist who has written books etc on the matter, told us how very few women have 'no milk', or a supply low enough to not be able to continue breastfeeding. It's pretty rare yet its the most common reason given for not bf'in! 

Hugs for those who have genuine problems, my post isn't aimed at you. (nor do i think any less of people who just genuinely didn't want to bf!)

Xx


----------



## Lu28

bky said:


> Dopeyjopey said:
> 
> 
> Lkb21 that is such an interesting point. I believe it is 1-2% of the human population physically cannot BF. I wonder what the rate is for other mammals and what happens to their young.
> 
> I don't know that that is really an accurate number. I think it's actually closer to 5% that don't have a full supply (on the mother's side of the equation). The rates for insufficient glandular tissue alone are comparable to the amount of babies born with Downs syndrome. A further portion have hormonal difficulties (about 1/3 of women with PCOS suffer from low supply, and if about 10% of women have PCOS that makes another potential 3%). *On the baby side, 10-15% of people have some form of tongue or lip tie which can make milk removal less efficient than it could be. It is a smaller number that go undiagnosed and/or are severe enough/also have a mother with lower supply to cause milk supply/weight problems. *That's not even starting on the traumatic births!
> 
> The 98% figure comes from Sweden and Norway which have, and this is a very important distinction, a 98% breastfeeding _initiation_ rate.
> If you look at their 4-6 month exclusive figures it's around 70-50% still exclusively BFeeding. Sorry, I just want that 98% figure to die as it's based on the assumption that those that are able to start breastfeeding are able to continue exclusively (excluding other factors such as work and appropriate support)
> 
> I'm certainly a statistical point in my country's 94% breastfeeding initiation rate. I started, but can't do it on my milk alone.
> 
> To the point about 3rd world countries, I think you'll find the under 2 year mortality rate is rather higher than developed countries. Who knows how much of that is due to low milk supply. Many people find no issue with believing in oversupply, but don't find low supply plausible.:shrug:
> 
> Farmers know that some cows aren't good milkers, so why not people?Click to expand...

That's a really interesting post, thank you :thumbup:

I do wonder if we were one of those few who had undiagnosed tongue tie contributing to her low weight gain from 4 months. She didn't latch on until she was 2.5 weeks old so who knows. I'll definitely get LO checked out next time!


----------



## lkb21

leelee said:


> Sherileigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'.* Funny that.....*
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but *its funny *that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Oh yeah, hilarious...:dohh: I pumped my BM for my son for 9 whole months!! I worked my boobs off and not one part of me thought it funny that my baby 'just won't latch on!'. Some of us were genuinely upset (and still am) that I couldn't BF the old fashioned way. My son would NOT latch. It was through no fault of my own. I suppose in another culture we would've starved him and maybe eventually he would've...but clearly that was never an option to us. I know you're just talking, but you're being a bit insensitive hun. There are a lot of women who tried really really hard to BF. I'm guessing that the point you're trying to get at is that some women give up too quickly as there is an option. Yep, maybe, who knows. I'm sure as hell glad there is an option for those that can't do it. I know what it feels like to be concerned about how your baby was going to eat, and it's not fun.Click to expand...
> 
> I know - Lkb21 thinks she is a comedian. Some babies will not latch so I would like to know the statistics for that. I don't want to think what would have happened if we were living in another country with no access to formula :(
> 
> I am actually speechless at your post. There is an undercurrent of 'people don't try hard enough' wrapped up in a passive aggressive post. Why don't you just come right out with it and say exactly what you think instead of what you are saying.Click to expand...

Passive agressive? Dramatic much! 

Yes I think some people don't try hard enough....not people with genuine problems though. And I dont for one minute think any less of people who dont try hard enough/ at all....read my latest post ^^^^

Man I wish someone would get my point!


----------



## Leesie

leelee said:


> Some babies will not latch so I would like to know the statistics for that.

Actually I'm curious about that too. I think it's a perfectly valid point that it's not only pre-existing medical conditions that prevent successful BF'ing, some babies just do not latch and do not learn to latch. I also wonder how many babies cannot latch due to pain relief administered during labour, tongue or lip ties etc... I'm struggling to find studies/stats on the net. Even Kellymom doesn't have much to say. 

This is a hugely complex issue and there's room for a lot of different opinions. 

Btw. aren't we quite far OT?


----------



## Lu28

We're very off topic but it's extremely interesting so why not?! :D


----------



## lkb21

Just to bring it back to topic, whilst relating to my point.....

If breast feeding is blighted with so many issues and problems, congratulations to those mummies who can do it! ...

Yes we are all meant to give birth to our children, but we stil congratulate people when they do it, cause its hard and not everyone can or will do it!!


----------



## Lu28

lkb21 said:


> Just to bring it back to topic, whilst relating to my point.....
> 
> If breast feeding is blighted with so many issues and problems, congratulations to those mummies who can do it! ...
> 
> Yes we are all meant to give birth to our children, but we stil congratulate people when they do it, cause its hard and not everyone can or will do it!!

That's a good point actually, I'd have been annoyed if no-one had congratulated me for not having my daughter!


----------



## Lightworker

LKB21-im also a LLL qualified breastfeeding supporter and i also admit i dont kno everything, but like u, we were taught that lack of adequate milk supply is EXTREMELY rare and down to maternal medical conditions and secondary impediments eg implants- i also agreed with the essence of all ur other posts x


----------



## chetnaz

Well I'm not congratulated for BFing, but if anyone would like to congratulate me, I'll gladly take it :)

I'm very proud of the fact that I'm breastfeeding as it has been bloody hard work. Not only am I bfing one baby but two and it has been a VERY rough ride up to this point! The twins were dinky when they were born (5lb 8 and 4lb 13) and I'm 'blessed' with big boobs, so my nipple's were far too big for the boys' tiny mouths. So right from the start Bf was frustrating to say the least. The boys would find it difficult to latch on, then cry out of frustration. By the time I finally latched them on, they would suckle for a bit then give up as they would tire so quickly. This was our first obsticle. Secondly I developed mastitis, cracked, sore nipple and blocked ducs. Because I was bf so often plus expressing, i overstimulated my breasts so they became extremely painful, engorged etc etc. I thought about giving up so many times. I cried so many times. But I was determined to give the twins the same start I gave my 4 year old son. So I persevered. I saw a lactation nurse. I bombarded a midwife I know with calls. I went to my GP, spoke to HV, until I found a way to bf. So it has not been an easy ride. We got there in the end though and the boys are thriving - they love their mummy milk (I was worried that I wouldnt have enough milk for two and as the boys were so small to start with, I worried if they would catch up, but they are right little chunky monkeys now). It's still not easy though, as I still bf on demand (about every 1.5 to 2 hours) so I can hardly go out and they are constantly attached to me and Im completely exhausted. 

I dont judge any mum, each to their own I say. This was my preference, my choice, and I stuck to it until I made it work. So if someone ever wants to congratulate me, I appriciate it cos it was very hard work and very painful to get to this stage. :)


----------



## AP

All i get from some of these replies is "everyone should be breastfeeding and theres not many excuses not to" :shrug:

People have got a choice, whats the problem?! Its no-one elses business.


----------



## AppleBlossom

Pahaha, is this seriously still going on? When I said about repeating yourself for the next 20 pages I was actually joking. I agree with you SB, the long and short of this thread is, there is no excuse not to BF. Actually, that is right. Because they aren't excuses, they're genuine problems...


----------



## AP

In fact what the hell am i saying, why has this thread turned into a ground for people to explain that yes, there are genuine reasons not to breastfeed, otherwise we should all be doing it???? Thats what being implyed here


----------



## NG09

Thanks for all the replies that have been posted, I really feel like I have learned loads from everyone, some things I agree with some I don't but hey, it would be pretty boring if we were all the same!! 

I do however feel that the thread has gotten quite a bit OT now and going round in circles :wacko: would really rather it didn't end badly........ just for a change!!!!! lol :flow:


----------



## AP

NG09 your thread had legs to start with hun :hugs: its just developed into something that you so didnt intend1


----------



## Lightworker

CONGRATULATIONS chetnaz- bfing twins is no mean feat! x


----------



## Missy86

Ot but I think I read something when I was having trouble bfeeding that said women who have very fair skin find bfeeding harder cos their nipples are more sensitive

Any thoughts


----------



## mrsthomas623

Missy86 said:


> Ot but I think I read something when I was having trouble bfeeding that said women who have very fair skin find bfeeding harder cos their nipples are more sensitive
> 
> Any thoughts

Idk if thats true or not. But I also wonder if women with bigger bobbies have more trouble?


----------



## aob1013

I'm pale as a ghost, have the most fair, sensitive skin, very light blonde hair, massive boobs, one flat nipple, had a son born 6 weeks early, was induced, had an epidural, then an EMCS, didn't have skin to skin, didn't hold my son until he was a day old, skin to skin on day 2, expressed for 7 days, successfully latched him on on day 7 .. and we've been EBF ever since .. so statistically i'm not really meant to be breastfeeding, but i am, and i am soooo proud of myself :)


----------



## halas

i think we should all be congratulated because we are doing what is best for our babies i breast fed both had to combine feed with gabrielle after 5 months both options are hard bfing is painful it felt like i was getting my nipple tattoed i was proud of myself that i pushed past that pain an persevered i had my oh giving me chines burns and all sorts of things just so i could feed her or with noah i had the worst afterpains ever and him feeding would trigger them big time they were just as or more painful than labour i would throw up from the pain. plus over the time of feeding them both i have conquared blissters on my nipples, and cracked, blocked ducts, to much milk, not enough milk, and somtimes just frustrated because i have fellt like i am constanntly nursing my baby and alot of that time oh cant justt step in and feed. and when i had to add formula i cant say i enjoyed sgrubbing and sterilising and admired the mums that do that every single feed.

in the end we are all doing the best we can for our children so we all should be congratrulated.


----------



## xemmax

Missy86 said:


> Ot but I think I read something when I was having trouble bfeeding that said women who have very fair skin find bfeeding harder cos their nipples are more sensitive
> 
> Any thoughts

yes, if your nipples are lighter then they tend to be more sensitive. and i've also read that babies initially latch on to darker nipples more easily.


----------



## aob1013

Goes to show how unreliable stats really are!


----------



## polo_princess

Gotta love statistics lol :coffee:


----------



## aob1013

They are shite pp!!


----------



## AP

Tell it like it is aob :rofl:


----------



## aob1013

Thats half my problem sometimes :rofl: x


----------



## polo_princess

We're all a statistic in one way or another, unless you 110% know the ins and outs of a study its best to take them with a pinch of salt, afterall, how do you know that some little dude in his office didnt just make them up on a Friday afternoon after a liquid lunch at the pub because he had a deadline to keep :rofl:


----------



## AppleBlossom

I agree, statistics are a load of BS :thumbup:


----------



## Lightworker

whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children


----------



## louandivy

chetnaz said:


> Well I'm not congratulated for BFing, but if anyone would like to congratulate me, I'll gladly take it :)
> 
> I'm very proud of the fact that I'm breastfeeding as it has been bloody hard work. Not only am I bfing one baby but two and it has been a VERY rough ride up to this point! The twins were dinky when they were born (5lb 8 and 4lb 13) and I'm 'blessed' with big boobs, so my nipple's were far too big for the boys' tiny mouths. So right from the start Bf was frustrating to say the least. The boys would find it difficult to latch on, then cry out of frustration. By the time I finally latched them on, they would suckle for a bit then give up as they would tire so quickly. This was our first obsticle. Secondly I developed mastitis, cracked, sore nipple and blocked ducs. Because I was bf so often plus expressing, i overstimulated my breasts so they became extremely painful, engorged etc etc. I thought about giving up so many times. I cried so many times. But I was determined to give the twins the same start I gave my 4 year old son. So I persevered. I saw a lactation nurse. I bombarded a midwife I know with calls. I went to my GP, spoke to HV, until I found a way to bf. So it has not been an easy ride. We got there in the end though and the boys are thriving - they love their mummy milk (I was worried that I wouldnt have enough milk for two and as the boys were so small to start with, I worried if they would catch up, but they are right little chunky monkeys now). It's still not easy though, as I still bf on demand (about every 1.5 to 2 hours) so I can hardly go out and they are constantly attached to me and Im completely exhausted.
> 
> I dont judge any mum, each to their own I say. This was my preference, my choice, and I stuck to it until I made it work. So if someone ever wants to congratulate me, I appriciate it cos it was very hard work and very painful to get to this stage. :)

you breastfeed twins,that deserves a trophy or something!


----------



## Drazic<3

Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :) 

lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.

I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable :dohh:


----------



## AppleBlossom

Drazic<3 said:


> Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :)
> 
> lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.
> 
> *I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable* :dohh:

I assume that was probably aimed at me and I have already explained that it wasn't a generalisation.

But you hit the nail on the head right there. It is NOBODY else's business but your own whether you had a c-section, whether you BF, whether you co-sleep... No way is always the right way because it will always be the wrong way for someone else for whatever reason. I wouldn't expect someone to judge me on what nappies I use or that every so often we go to McDonalds so I sure as hell don't expect people to judge anything else I do in terms of my own child, including how she was fed as a baby, because frankly, it's not their concern. I would always advocate that people at least try BFing but if someone decides they want to FF from the off then it's their decision and I would never look down on them for it


----------



## Drazic<3

AppleBlossom said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :)
> 
> lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.
> 
> *I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable* :dohh:
> 
> I assume that was probably aimed at me and I have already explained that it wasn't a generalisation.
> 
> But you hit the nail on the head right there. It is NOBODY else's business but your own whether you had a c-section, whether you BF, whether you co-sleep... No way is always the right way because it will always be the wrong way for someone else for whatever reason. I wouldn't expect someone to judge me on what nappies I use or that every so often we go to McDonalds so I sure as hell don't expect people to judge anything else I do in terms of my own child, including how she was fed as a baby, because frankly, it's not their concern. I would always advocate that people at least try BFing but if someone decides they want to FF from the off then it's their decision and I would never look down on them for itClick to expand...

It really wasn't just aimed at you, it's something which seems to happen time and time again. Hell, I have probably done it myself. 

Exactly. I wouldn't go to McDonalds because I am a veggie, but my brother and sister sat in my house with one yesterday because my choices are not theirs and I would never judge them for it. I just think there is a huge leap between, for example, "All women should always BF and I think you are disgusting and lazy" to saying "I am really proud I have carried on BF through mastitis when it's the best thing for me and my baby." To me, one is offensive and one isn't, in the same respect as "I hate BF'ers they are all up themselves" and "I chose to FF as it was the best thing for me and my baby and I'm proud I made that choice." isn't offensive.


----------



## Janidog

Drazic<3 said:


> Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :)
> 
> lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. *I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses*. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.
> 
> I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable :dohh:

:hugs: I completely understand where you are coming from, as I too had to have an emergency c-section otherwise LO and me would have died :hugs: and i feel guilty for not doing it the natural way, but every time I look at my LO i know i made the right choice for both of us to be here.


----------



## Drazic<3

Janidog said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :)
> 
> lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. *I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses*. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.
> 
> I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable :dohh:
> 
> :hugs: I completely understand where you are coming from, as I too had to have an emergency c-section otherwise LO and me would have died :hugs: and i feel guilty for not doing it the natural way, but every time I look at my LO i know i made the right choice for both of us to be here.Click to expand...

Thanks hun, it's a weird thing to accept isn't it? I am not sure I have yet but I'm sure I will. I'm so glad everything was okay for you both, like you say, you made the right choice :hugs:


----------



## xemmax

huggermomof2 said:


> whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children

i agree. i think it'd odd that people would say that statistics are "shite" or "bullshit" - what does that even mean? statistical analysis is no less valuable because you find an exception.


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children
> 
> i agree. i think it'd odd that people would say that statistics are "shite" or "bullshit" - what does that even mean? statistical analysis is no less valuable because you find an exception.Click to expand...

Ok, i'll answer you directly as that is aimed at me. If you find it odd, quote me and i'll explain for you.

My comment was a light hearted, jokey, passing comment which two other people seemed to recognise.

Statistics are extremely important. When Leni was in SCBU we were give statistics on things like his survival, feeding, weight gain etc, then on SIDS, co-sleeping etc. I trusted those statistics. I also trust statistics to do with many other things, e.g crime, food you should avoid etc, you get my drift.

Statistics are not shit, shit, crap, pink, grey or bullshit. Statistics ar factual evidence which i trust and are obviously based on the truth.

It was just a little ol' meaningless comment that lightened the mood. No more, on less .. Chill :)


----------



## xemmax

i see!

it was just the "goes to show how unrealiable stats are" comment that confused me. which is entirely what i meant when i said that they are still valuable despite there being exceptions.

it wasn't a personal attack, i see a lot of stat-bashing as it were on this forum, and it confuses me. i know they don't always represent people's situations so i do understand it to a degree, but they are based on fact afterall.


----------



## aob1013

xemmax said:


> i see!
> 
> it was just the "goes to show how unrealiable stats are" comment that confused me. which is entirely what i meant when i said that they are still valuable despite there being exceptions.
> 
> it wasn't a personal attack, i see a lot of stat-bashing as it were on this forum, and it confuses me. *i know they don't always represent people's situations so i do understand it to a degree, but they are based on fact afterall*.

The bit is bolded, is what i am trying to explain :lol:

Yeah it goes to show how sometimes they don't represent real life. Statistically me breastfeeding was against the odds, but i was an exception in that case. Like alot of other things, kiwm? There is always an exception to the rules.


----------



## Nic1107

lkb21 said:


> Nic1107 said:
> 
> 
> Just because the majority of people are capable of providing sufficient nutrition, doesn't mean no one isn't!! And for some of us, the problem isn't ours but our babies'. As in my case. I thank God for bottles with fast-flow teats; she wasn't strong enough to get milk from me when she did try briefly; she's not strong enough now to get juice from a sippy cup. So my baby may be flawed, but she's alive, and I'm bloody well thankful for that.
> 
> I think we both know that I wasn't refering to anybodys baby as flawed! I was refering to our species, if you want to get offended as a human, go ahead, but please dont be offended as a mother.... I think its pretty clear thats not what I was implying.
> 
> And as i said.... I'm not saying these issues don't happen, I kust find it hard to believe that they occure so often and to so many people!Click to expand...

Heh, you've got me wrong! :flower: I wasn't offended. I'd have replied earlier but different time zones and all that, I just woke up. I was just saying, my baby _does_ have a flaw that made her unable to feed- I myself was calling her flawed, but I'm okay with that 'cuz I love her anyway. :lol: Therefore, I am devoutly thankful for formula because she's alive and well, and I didn't have to milk a goat or make some god-awful concoction to feed her. 

I think, just as often as people assume someone was intentionally being offensive when they weren't, people also assume people are offended or huffy when they're not (this isn't aimed at you, just in general). :hugs: all 'round!


----------



## hivechild

huggermomof2 said:


> CONGRATULATIONS chetnaz- bfing twins is no mean feat! x

Double that. You are definitely doing an amazing job chetnaz. Even if you hadn't faced the problems you did, i can only imagine the dedication and commitment required to keep at it with multiples.


----------



## aliss

And then I saw in the birth announcements section there is a girl who is breastfeeding ... get this ... triplets!!! WOW. Hats off to her, she doesn't even have 3 boobs!


----------



## CocoaOne

aliss said:


> I know for a fact that in my mother's country Hungary, babies whose mothers did not have sufficient supply (or any supply) were given goat's milk. Goat's milk! So those that did survive faced malnutrition and deficiencies

I just wanted to add that goat's milk is actually easier for us/babies to digest than cow's milk. Less allergens and I think the proteins in it are closer to human ones (something like that anyway)

Oh here you go : (wholesomebabyfood.com)

The big advantage of goat's milk is that it contains less allergenic proteins.* The proteins in goats milk form smaller "curds" as the stomach acids bind to the proteins and then begin digestion.* The proteins found in goat's milk are more easily digested in a baby's tummy. * For an infant who might have a cow's milk allergy to cow's milk proteins, goat's milk may also settle better in baby's tummy.*
*
Goat's milk also has a different fat makeup when compared to cow's milk.* A baby with a cow milk allergy or even reflux might benefit from goat's milk due to its fats.*


----------



## indy and lara

No matter what choices you make, bringing up a baby is darn hard work. 

I BF and I am pleased I did and I am proud of BF for 13 months. Emma was in SCBU and I was pleased I was able to express and I was pleased she latched and that I fed her for so long. BF was mine and DH's choice of how to feed and I am proud of my achievement. That does not mean that I think I am better than anyone else, it just means that I pleased with what happened with me.

I think that people praise others for BF because, except in small pockets of the country, it is not the norm. This does not mean that no-one does it but it does mean that more people don't than do. To BF and certainly to BF beyond a few months is bucking a trend. Also BF is a very physically demanding process. Aside from the immediately obvious things like cracked nipples and mastitis it puts a strain on your body and can add an additional level of exhaustion beyond that we all experience as parents. The only way anyone can help relieve the broken nights/ let you get out the house than 90 mins in the early days/ have an evening out later on/ etc is for you to express which brings its own problems. Many successful BFers are not able to express and even if you can it is very time consuming. Many people recognise this and I think this is another reason why people praise those who BF.


----------



## CocoaOne

Don't even get me started on formula companies - suffice to say that it's not 'financially beneficial' to them to use goats milk in formula instead of cows milk. 

Now _they_ are the bad guys!


----------



## Nic1107

I'm thinking of giving Carmie goat's milk once she's off the formula; problems with cow's milk run on both sides of our family. I won't be drinking it though, I remember when we had to try it for a nutrition class in Girl Scouts and I was like :sick:! I do love a good goat's milk cheese though. :)


----------



## AppleBlossom

aob1013 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children
> 
> i agree. i think it'd odd that people would say that statistics are "shite" or "bullshit" - what does that even mean? statistical analysis is no less valuable because you find an exception.Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, i'll answer you directly as that is aimed at me. If you find it odd, quote me and i'll explain for you.
> 
> My comment was a light hearted, jokey, passing comment which two other people seemed to recognise.
> 
> Statistics are extremely important. When Leni was in SCBU we were give statistics on things like his survival, feeding, weight gain etc, then on SIDS, co-sleeping etc. I trusted those statistics. I also trust statistics to do with many other things, e.g crime, food you should avoid etc, you get my drift.
> 
> Statistics are not shit, shit, crap, pink, grey or bullshit. Statistics ar factual evidence which i trust and are obviously based on the truth.
> 
> It was just a little ol' meaningless comment that lightened the mood. No more, on less .. Chill :)Click to expand...

^^ Same lol 

And to a degree some statistics are a load of rubbish when relating to personal situations. Like, in every 3 siblings, one will turn out to be gay statistically :shrug: It's a generalisation. Statistics that say things like FF babies will be fatter than BF babies or children who were BF are more intelligent than those who were FF are, in my own experience at least, simply not true. And, if you were around in the last month you would have seen a bunch of statistics posted by someone that were actual statistics but completely absurd. Such as good looking women are more likely to have baby girls.... Some statistics are feasable. Some are plain silly :)


----------



## aliss

Mmmmmmmmmm goat cheese :) LOL I like to mix it with pesto and spread it on crackers.

But I don't want LO to grow up exclusively on goat's milk, LOL


----------



## xemmax

AppleBlossom said:


> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children
> 
> i agree. i think it'd odd that people would say that statistics are "shite" or "bullshit" - what does that even mean? statistical analysis is no less valuable because you find an exception.Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, i'll answer you directly as that is aimed at me. If you find it odd, quote me and i'll explain for you.
> 
> My comment was a light hearted, jokey, passing comment which two other people seemed to recognise.
> 
> Statistics are extremely important. When Leni was in SCBU we were give statistics on things like his survival, feeding, weight gain etc, then on SIDS, co-sleeping etc. I trusted those statistics. I also trust statistics to do with many other things, e.g crime, food you should avoid etc, you get my drift.
> 
> Statistics are not shit, shit, crap, pink, grey or bullshit. Statistics ar factual evidence which i trust and are obviously based on the truth.
> 
> It was just a little ol' meaningless comment that lightened the mood. No more, on less .. Chill :)Click to expand...
> 
> ^^ Same lol
> 
> And to a degree some statistics are a load of rubbish when relating to personal situations. Like, in every 3 siblings, one will turn out to be gay statistically :shrug: It's a generalisation. Statistics that say things like FF babies will be fatter than BF babies or children who were BF are more intelligent than those who were FF are, in my own experience at least, simply not true. And, if you were around in the last month you would have seen a bunch of statistics posted by someone that were actual statistics but completely absurd. Such as good looking women are more likely to have baby girls.... Some statistics are feasable. Some are plain silly :)Click to expand...

i thought it was 1 out of 3 people are gay, not siblings. i'm not sure you can disagree directly with statistics on the basis that they seem silly. you can disagree with them with opposing studies, but just because the concept that the study was based on appears to be absurd, it doesn't mean the statistic is, if that makes sense... the statistic is itself a product of a study afterall.


----------



## AppleBlossom

xemmax said:


> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children
> 
> i agree. i think it'd odd that people would say that statistics are "shite" or "bullshit" - what does that even mean? statistical analysis is no less valuable because you find an exception.Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, i'll answer you directly as that is aimed at me. If you find it odd, quote me and i'll explain for you.
> 
> My comment was a light hearted, jokey, passing comment which two other people seemed to recognise.
> 
> Statistics are extremely important. When Leni was in SCBU we were give statistics on things like his survival, feeding, weight gain etc, then on SIDS, co-sleeping etc. I trusted those statistics. I also trust statistics to do with many other things, e.g crime, food you should avoid etc, you get my drift.
> 
> Statistics are not shit, shit, crap, pink, grey or bullshit. Statistics ar factual evidence which i trust and are obviously based on the truth.
> 
> It was just a little ol' meaningless comment that lightened the mood. No more, on less .. Chill :)Click to expand...
> 
> ^^ Same lol
> 
> And to a degree some statistics are a load of rubbish when relating to personal situations. Like, in every 3 siblings, one will turn out to be gay statistically :shrug: It's a generalisation. Statistics that say things like FF babies will be fatter than BF babies or children who were BF are more intelligent than those who were FF are, in my own experience at least, simply not true. And, if you were around in the last month you would have seen a bunch of statistics posted by someone that were actual statistics but completely absurd. Such as good looking women are more likely to have baby girls.... Some statistics are feasable. Some are plain silly :)Click to expand...
> 
> i thought it was 1 out of 3 people are gay, not siblings. either way it isn't a generalisation, it's a statistic, based on research. i'm not sure you can disagree directly with statistics on the basis that they seem silly. you can disagree with them with opposing studies, but just because the concept that the study was based on appears to be absurd, it doesn't mean the statistic is, if that makes sense... the statistic is itself a product of a study afterall.Click to expand...

I mean in a personal sense they seem silly. My daughter was only BF for 2 weeks, she has never once been overweight and she is extremely intelligent for her age (not a biased opinion, she is not even 2.5 and she can do a lot of things most children her age can't do, like she can count to 20, recite the enitre alphabet, count to 7 in Spanish, knows pretty much all colours, shapes...) So to me, statistics saying FF children are not as bright as BF children doesn't apply. But it probably will apply to someone else. But it won't apply to everyone because it is 'on average' and all that kind of thing... does that make sense?

ETA: There was a study done on siblings and being homosexual and the statistics state that one in every 3 siblings will turn out to be gay. FOB is gay and his sister is a lesbian, not sure about his other sister yet... so that blows that one right out of the water as well lol


----------



## xemmax

AppleBlossom said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AppleBlossom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aob1013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huggermomof2 said:
> 
> 
> whilst i agree that statistics are sometimes inaccurate, i think some statistics are a good reflection of the actual situation especially when carried out by organizations that are mandated to act on these very statistics, eg UNICEF etc, moreso as they employ people trained to postgraduate level to carry them out- as a result of their findings, they are really able to help children
> 
> i agree. i think it'd odd that people would say that statistics are "shite" or "bullshit" - what does that even mean? statistical analysis is no less valuable because you find an exception.Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, i'll answer you directly as that is aimed at me. If you find it odd, quote me and i'll explain for you.
> 
> My comment was a light hearted, jokey, passing comment which two other people seemed to recognise.
> 
> Statistics are extremely important. When Leni was in SCBU we were give statistics on things like his survival, feeding, weight gain etc, then on SIDS, co-sleeping etc. I trusted those statistics. I also trust statistics to do with many other things, e.g crime, food you should avoid etc, you get my drift.
> 
> Statistics are not shit, shit, crap, pink, grey or bullshit. Statistics ar factual evidence which i trust and are obviously based on the truth.
> 
> It was just a little ol' meaningless comment that lightened the mood. No more, on less .. Chill :)Click to expand...
> 
> ^^ Same lol
> 
> And to a degree some statistics are a load of rubbish when relating to personal situations. Like, in every 3 siblings, one will turn out to be gay statistically :shrug: It's a generalisation. Statistics that say things like FF babies will be fatter than BF babies or children who were BF are more intelligent than those who were FF are, in my own experience at least, simply not true. And, if you were around in the last month you would have seen a bunch of statistics posted by someone that were actual statistics but completely absurd. Such as good looking women are more likely to have baby girls.... Some statistics are feasable. Some are plain silly :)Click to expand...
> 
> i thought it was 1 out of 3 people are gay, not siblings. either way it isn't a generalisation, it's a statistic, based on research. i'm not sure you can disagree directly with statistics on the basis that they seem silly. you can disagree with them with opposing studies, but just because the concept that the study was based on appears to be absurd, it doesn't mean the statistic is, if that makes sense... the statistic is itself a product of a study afterall.Click to expand...
> 
> I mean in a personal sense they seem silly. My daughter was only BF for 2 weeks, she has never once been overweight and she is extremely intelligent for her age (not a biased opinion, she is not even 2.5 and she can do a lot of things most children her age can't do, like she can count to 20, recite the enitre alphabet, count to 7 in Spanish, knows pretty much all colours, shapes...) So to me, statistics saying FF children are not as bright as BF children doesn't apply. But it probably will apply to someone else. But it won't apply to everyone because it is 'on average' and all that kind of thing... does that make sense?Click to expand...

yeah it does make sense, but when it says that statistically FF children aren't as intelligent as BF children, it obviously means that proportionately more children who are BF fare better in intelligence tests (or whatever method of testing they use) than in the FF category. it doesn't mean that FF children are necessarily behind BF children, it's just a statistic... a finding...

i will say that i don't agree with statistics like the one you used as an example before, about beautiful women being more likely to have girls. i find that totally hard to prove, as beauty is purely subjective. i'm sure that within the study "beauty" had a definition (symmetry of features, etc) but the details of the study aren't included in the findings that state that "beautiful women are more likely to have girls", so it just becomes, well, bollocks really!

not sure any of that made sense? :wacko:


----------



## cherryglitter

Statistics are just random correlations on graphs. :) A number of a factors in a child's life will impact whether they are intelligent or not, in my opinion!


----------



## cherryglitter

Oh and with regards to the gay sibling thing, OH's brother is gay.. and there's 5 of them!? So it might work ;)


----------



## xemmax

cherryglitter said:


> Statistics are just random correlations on graphs. :) A number of a factors in a child's life will impact whether they are intelligent or not, in my opinion!

well, i agree with the second sentence anyway! the first i'm not so sure...


----------



## Janidog

Drazic<3 said:


> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :)
> 
> lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. *I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses*. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.
> 
> I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable :dohh:
> 
> :hugs: I completely understand where you are coming from, as I too had to have an emergency c-section otherwise LO and me would have died :hugs: and i feel guilty for not doing it the natural way, but every time I look at my LO i know i made the right choice for both of us to be here.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun, it's a weird thing to accept isn't it? I am not sure I have yet but I'm sure I will. I'm so glad everything was okay for you both, like you say, you made the right choice :hugs:Click to expand...

When i came round after having GA, they put LO one one me all wrapped up, and he had all ready been feed by my OH, so LO didn't really feel like he was mine, and i still feel a failure, but the older he is getting the more im dealing with it and just coming to terms with it, so i can enjoy him :hugs:


----------



## Serene123

Well, yes. Breastfeeding is HARD. And anyone who makes it past the first few weeks if they've had a hard time, deserves a congratulations for being so strong and working so hard.

I don't think any one person has the right to decide what you can or cannot congratulate someone for. If you personally think someone has done a good job then you congratulate them. Simple as that.

Breast is best. Fact. Formula is not bad though. It's a wonderful thing. I don't understand why people argue so much tbh. No one is going to know if what they're doing is right until their child is grown up.


----------



## Serene123

Since Bexy (appleblossom) is on this thread, I've said it once and I'll say it again, her and Caitlyn have NOT been brought up the same but tbh they're exactly the same in pretty much every way.

And not blowing my own trumpet but they're BOTH highly intelligent little girls.


----------



## babyblog

Havent read any other replies as there's too many! But i agree-i don't feel the need to congratulate those that BF! If you do it great, if you don't then great. 

A few congratulations wouldn't have made me breastfeed for any longer than i did!


----------



## Aidan's Mummy

Satitics are not always accurate. It depends how the research was carried out,how effective it was the range of people used. So many factors come into play that it is very hard to get a true portrayal of anything. Xc


----------



## Drazic<3

Janidog said:


> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janidog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drazic<3 said:
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have to agree. BF twins should earn you some kind of medal. With everything I have been through with one, I literally can't even imagine. I feel like there is no breaks sometimes with my sweet girl, but with two? :)
> 
> lkb21, I thanked your post because I think it's good to introduce debate and I totally found hearing all the facts after really interesting. However, I think some of the comments after summarises the point yet again, not everything everyone says is a crisitism of someone's parenting choices! It's echoes insecurity to me. *I had an emergency cat2 c-section. Am I glad I did? Yes, it saved my daughters life and probably mine. Do I struggle with the fact I didn't do the natural norm? Yes. But it is my problem and no-one elses*. I am not going to go on all the natural birth threads and go; Stop PRESSURING women to have a natural birth! Thinking it's the right way! Your anti-c-section and your judging me. Hell, it might be in my head! But it's my problem, no-one elses.
> 
> I also find it ironic how some people are so quick to jump down others throats for offending them, then they post minutes later with the most scoping, mocking, generalisations which is perfectly acceptable :dohh:
> 
> :hugs: I completely understand where you are coming from, as I too had to have an emergency c-section otherwise LO and me would have died :hugs: and i feel guilty for not doing it the natural way, but every time I look at my LO i know i made the right choice for both of us to be here.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks hun, it's a weird thing to accept isn't it? I am not sure I have yet but I'm sure I will. I'm so glad everything was okay for you both, like you say, you made the right choice :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> When i came round after having GA, they put LO one one me all wrapped up, and he had all ready been feed by my OH, so LO didn't really feel like he was mine, and i still feel a failure, but the older he is getting the more im dealing with it and just coming to terms with it, so i can enjoy him :hugs:Click to expand...

Oh hun, that must have been so hard. You are certainly not a failure. You brought your gorgeous bubba into this world safely (even if it wasn't how you planned) and you continue to look after him and be a wonderful Mum. I am so glad you are beginning to come to terms with it. To be honest, I think we feel a very similar way about things. If you ever want to PM me for a chat feel free chic :hugs:


----------



## Blaumba

Dopeyjopey said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> ok heres one, i didnt BF because i didnt want a baby sucking on my boobs all day and night - selfish right? But what if i told you that i chose to FF because my partner has a disability meaning he cant use his left side properly and couldnt help me change nappies, do bathtimes get Harrison dressed? I didnt want to basically be a single mother at 21 so FF was a joint choice so that the baby wasnt permantly attached to me and my partner could help feed and i could rest - still selfish? Not in my opinion. No my baby isnt getting BM but formula isnt doing him any harm
> 
> I AM a single mum and have a baby 'sucking on my boobs day and night'. I do every nappy change, bath, feed, clean up of sick, taking him to the doctors, the 6 night feeds, rocking him to sleep - and what's more, i do that with no emotional support from a partner. I haven't had my hair cut in 6 months, been to the cinema, 'popped' to the shop. In fact, I have only left him for one night out 3 months ago and for a day when i was in hospital (but he came in to visit so i could feed him).
> 
> *Thinking about all that, i think i'm gonna give myself a big pat on the back* :)Click to expand...

Me too!! *Pats Dopeyjopey on the back*

I can't imagine doing what you do and admire you massivly!
I know for a fact that I wouldn't have got past those horrific first weeks BF if I hadn't had the support of OH. Well done and congratulations to you hun :flower:


----------



## Justagirlxx

I just want to add my two cents on statistics. Statistics can be correct while also being misleading. Saying 1 out of 3 doctors recommend this tooth paste can be correct in a fashion but the studies done to show this were biased, pseudo-science BS. AKA they went to doctors who had financial ties to the tooth paste brand and asked them which toothpaste they recommended. There is a huge difference between pseudo-science and science. We need to remember that statistics are just that, statistics, they are NOT reality and they can be easily swayed and biased. Reliable, unbiased, peer-reviewed studies are what we should be looking at and quoting. If you say 1 out of every 3 people are gay, but took your sample from say only people in California, which has the highest gay population in the US (just an example), your statistic is absolute crap and meaningless. There are always variables that could effect the outcome. Just because it looks like A causes B doesn't necessarily mean it does. There could be another factor affecting B that was over looked. So I agree that statistics can be BS and we should definitely take them with a grain of salt.


----------



## leelee

lkb21 said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherileigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> I know i'll get lynched for this, but here goes....actually, i'll begin with a foreword....
> 
> I do not look down at anyone for formula feeding, each to their own, I ff ds, and he walks and talks and is a normal 6 yo. So ff, bf, do what you want for me.
> 
> But, here's what gets me a little bit, and i would sincerely love to be issued with a legitimate explanation.... In third world countries, or even just poorer countries, where formula isn't accessible or affordable, they somehow manage to breastfeed their babies, without the alternative of formula, women have a full supply (sometimes on 1 tiny meal a day their bodies still produce sufficient supply). Yet in a privileged country, where formula Jus happens to be accessible and affordable, we seem to have a country full of woman with little or no milk, or babies that 'just won't latcj on!'.* Funny that.....*
> I'm not saying that these problems don't occure, but *its funny *that the scale of these problems is larger in a country where we can pretty much ALL access formula, and yet has access to health visitors, lactation specialists, breast pumps..... Just food for thought....
> 
> Oh yeah, hilarious...:dohh: I pumped my BM for my son for 9 whole months!! I worked my boobs off and not one part of me thought it funny that my baby 'just won't latch on!'. Some of us were genuinely upset (and still am) that I couldn't BF the old fashioned way. My son would NOT latch. It was through no fault of my own. I suppose in another culture we would've starved him and maybe eventually he would've...but clearly that was never an option to us. I know you're just talking, but you're being a bit insensitive hun. There are a lot of women who tried really really hard to BF. I'm guessing that the point you're trying to get at is that some women give up too quickly as there is an option. Yep, maybe, who knows. I'm sure as hell glad there is an option for those that can't do it. I know what it feels like to be concerned about how your baby was going to eat, and it's not fun.Click to expand...
> 
> I know - Lkb21 thinks she is a comedian. Some babies will not latch so I would like to know the statistics for that. I don't want to think what would have happened if we were living in another country with no access to formula :(
> 
> I am actually speechless at your post. There is an undercurrent of 'people don't try hard enough' wrapped up in a passive aggressive post. Why don't you just come right out with it and say exactly what you think instead of what you are saying.Click to expand...
> 
> Passive agressive? Dramatic much!
> 
> Yes I think some people don't try hard enough....not people with genuine problems though. And I dont for one minute think any less of people who dont try hard enough/ at all....read my latest post ^^^^
> 
> Man I wish someone would get my point!Click to expand...

I wasn't being dramatic. I found your post to be passive aggressive. I suggest you go and do some research on how many babies can't latch and see what the stats are on that - because it seems fairly common to me. I for one, tried for 4 weeks to get my baby to latch. The message he was giving me loud and clear was that he couldn't/wouldn't latch.


----------



## chetnaz

aliss said:


> And then I saw in the birth announcements section there is a girl who is breastfeeding ... get this ... triplets!!! WOW. Hats off to her, she doesn't even have 3 boobs!

Triplets? Wow, now SHE deserves a medal!! BFing twins is difficult enough so I can't imagine triplets, well done whoever you are! She must have a baby permanently attached to her at all times - I know I do! :)


----------



## aliss

chetnaz said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> And then I saw in the birth announcements section there is a girl who is breastfeeding ... get this ... triplets!!! WOW. Hats off to her, she doesn't even have 3 boobs!
> 
> Triplets? Wow, now SHE deserves a medal!! BFing twins is difficult enough so I can't imagine triplets, well done whoever you are! She must have a baby permanently attached to her at all times - I know I do! :)Click to expand...

I found it:
https://www.babyandbump.com/birth-stories-announcements/444515-our-triplets-here.html

I don't expect her to be around to chime in on this discussion. If she gets 5 minutes to go to the bathroom today, good on her, LOL


----------



## MissDX

@lkb21: Like Missy said, I think it's just that we don't hear about those cases. I always feel a little down when I think that in the past, I'd have been a failure as I wouldn't have been able to give my babies milk :(


----------



## bky

The reason there is very little research, or accurate statistics on things like failure to latch, low milk supply etc is because there is an acceptable band-aid that covers over the underlying issues. It's not a cure or solution, but it gets the baby being fed and gaining weight box ticked which is (understandably) important. To my mind it's rather like people discovering they aren't able to walk and being given crutches or leg braces. It does nothing to address the issue, just patches over the problem.

I don't care if people want to use formula, whatever their reason. It's not any easier, and may have significant benefits in your situation. What I do care about is that most problems for those who don't want to use it are patched over by formula. I mean, unless you are lucky enough to have some other experienced professional on hand you have to see a IBCLC or oral surgeon to get posterior tongue tie or lip ties (that can cause painful latch, recurring thrush or low milk) diagnosed, let alone treated. And I'm perfectly aware that LLL's official stance is that low milk is 'very rare'. So apparently rare that they never expect to really encounter a 'real' case and thus create an unsupportive environment IMO (because I did ask for help and was more or less brushed off). If you can't get the milk out and the baby can't get the milk out is it effectively there?


----------



## Lightworker

its sad to hear that anyones experience of LLL was negative and unsupportive. i know all the ladies i trained with and our mentors are all EXTREMELY SUPPORTIVE and will help to the best of their ability (and will even go over and above), regardless of whether the issue/problem is anticipated or not. i sincerely hope other ladies are not dissuaded from seeking LLL help because in all honesty, they are absolutely brilliant, and their contribution to infant nutrition is thoroughly commendable


----------



## Midnight_Fairy

Aidan's Mummy said:


> Satitics are not always accurate. It depends how the research was carried out,how effective it was the range of people used. So many factors come into play that it is very hard to get a true portrayal of anything. Xc

I agree. xx


----------



## fifie123

xemmax said:


> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> Ot but I think I read something when I was having trouble bfeeding that said women who have very fair skin find bfeeding harder cos their nipples are more sensitive
> 
> Any thoughts
> 
> yes, if your nipples are lighter then they tend to be more sensitive. and i've also read that babies initially latch on to darker nipples more easily.Click to expand...

This is because when babys are born they are colur blind, so they can see th darker nipple better compared to a light one


----------



## Lightworker

Wow I actually find the whole dark nipple thing very interesting- it could probably account for the higher rates of BF in developing, as the women tend to be darker skinned. But what about babies that are born blind? Do they have latch problems? Also, i think my LO had her eyes shut for a good while after the birth, but she latched on straight away- hmm- i love this thread now, you always learn something


----------



## CocoaOne

There are glands around your nipple which secrete oils to keep your nipples clean - babies can follow the smell. 

Years ago, women were told to scrub their nipples clean before feeding, probably part of the reason that BF rates started declining....


----------



## Lu28

huggermomof2 said:


> its sad to hear that anyones experience of LLL was negative and unsupportive. i know all the ladies i trained with and our mentors are all EXTREMELY SUPPORTIVE and will help to the best of their ability (and will even go over and above), regardless of whether the issue/problem is anticipated or not. i sincerely hope other ladies are not dissuaded from seeking LLL help because in all honesty, they are absolutely brilliant, and their contribution to infant nutrition is thoroughly commendable

Unfortunately I have to agree with Bky, the 'support' I got from LLL was useless as a chocolate fireguard. I rang a few times worried about her latch because I really didnt think we'd cracked it and again when she wasn't gaining and it almost seemed like they had a script at the phone with the standard advice, none of which seemed to apply to us. I didn't know that there might be someone in my area who could check our latch and it was never suggested to me. This is one thing which irritates me when people say that some 'give up too easily' without contacting all the relevant support bodies - alot could have had the same experience as Bky and I :nope:


----------



## cherryglitter

CocoaOne said:


> There are glands around your nipple which secrete oils to keep your nipples clean - babies can follow the smell.
> 
> Years ago, women were told to scrub their nipples clean before feeding, probably part of the reason that BF rates started declining....

That's true! One of the girls I know was telling me they used to have to wash their breast.
Whenever I fed Jake (FF) he used to nestle into me like he could smell it. 
But he also used to do this too OH. :blush:


----------



## fifie123

CocoaOne said:


> There are glands around your nipple which secrete oils to keep your nipples clean - babies can follow the smell.
> 
> Years ago, women were told to scrub their nipples clean before feeding, probably part of the reason that BF rates started declining....

Yes this is true, also when we are prgnant and our nipples go dark itsso babys can see them easier to know where to latch, it's alot to do with the smell


----------



## lkb21

Nic1107 said:


> lkb21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nic1107 said:
> 
> 
> Just because the majority of people are capable of providing sufficient nutrition, doesn't mean no one isn't!! And for some of us, the problem isn't ours but our babies'. As in my case. I thank God for bottles with fast-flow teats; she wasn't strong enough to get milk from me when she did try briefly; she's not strong enough now to get juice from a sippy cup. So my baby may be flawed, but she's alive, and I'm bloody well thankful for that.
> 
> I think we both know that I wasn't refering to anybodys baby as flawed! I was refering to our species, if you want to get offended as a human, go ahead, but please dont be offended as a mother.... I think its pretty clear thats not what I was implying.
> 
> And as i said.... I'm not saying these issues don't happen, I kust find it hard to believe that they occure so often and to so many people!Click to expand...
> 
> Heh, you've got me wrong! :flower: I wasn't offended. I'd have replied earlier but different time zones and all that, I just woke up. I was just saying, my baby _does_ have a flaw that made her unable to feed- I myself was calling her flawed, but I'm okay with that 'cuz I love her anyway. :lol: Therefore, I am devoutly thankful for formula because she's alive and well, and I didn't have to milk a goat or make some god-awful concoction to feed her.
> 
> I think, just as often as people assume someone was intentionally being offensive when they weren't, people also assume people are offended or huffy when they're not (this isn't aimed at you, just in general). :hugs: all 'round!Click to expand...

Eek, sorry hun. I totally get it! :flower:


----------



## Nic1107

No problem hun :hugs:


----------



## smokey

fifie123 said:


> CocoaOne said:
> 
> 
> There are glands around your nipple which secrete oils to keep your nipples clean - babies can follow the smell.
> 
> Years ago, women were told to scrub their nipples clean before feeding, probably part of the reason that BF rates started declining....
> 
> Yes this is true, also when we are prgnant and our nipples go dark itsso babys can see them easier to know where to latch, it's alot to do with the smellClick to expand...

Thats actualy realy interesting as my nipples never went dark at all they have always been before, during and fter pregancy very light and LO just wouldnt latch on without a few hours of trying.


----------



## becstar

fifie123 said:


> xemmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missy86 said:
> 
> 
> Ot but I think I read something when I was having trouble bfeeding that said women who have very fair skin find bfeeding harder cos their nipples are more sensitive
> 
> Any thoughts
> 
> yes, if your nipples are lighter then they tend to be more sensitive. and i've also read that babies initially latch on to darker nipples more easily.Click to expand...
> 
> This is because when babys are born they are colur blind, so they can see th darker nipple better compared to a light oneClick to expand...

How funny... I'm very pale and my nipples are still a little sensitive even now, after 15 months of bfing. I never knew that! I did know about why they get darker... mine were soooo dark, a shock compared to my previous pale pink!


----------



## andbabymakes3

I had a crap experience with LLL also - my local person never returned my calls/emails, not once. A couple of my NCT friends tried to get hold of LLL and they didn't have any luck either. My HV was totally useless too. The only way I managed to keep going for so long was from sheer bloody mindedness and the support from BnB.


----------



## NeyNey

Well....congratulations or not BF is no easy task, I am very jealous of those who manage to do so. For something that is suppose to come "natural" it is one of the hardest things in the world to manage to do for most. So I guess if you can, then well done to you.

With that said, I think those who tried and tried and in the end lost the battle with BF need to be supported in their decision to switch to FF. It is not an easy choice to make and we feel guilty enough for having to do so....So to have some stranger come up to me and tell me I'm poisioning my child with Formula only makes me want to crawl under the guilty rock and die. I did everything I could to BF, everything!!! And in the end I couldn't anymore...I was so depressed/stressed/anxious and so was my son...But I sure could have used a few "It's ok, nothing wrong with FF" and "Don't feel bad, you're still a great Mummy" when I was switching to help me feel a little less like I had failed as a mother......So FF Mummies need support too.


----------



## Leesie

andbabymakes3 said:


> I had a crap experience with LLL also - my local person never returned my calls/emails, not once.

I know LLL is supposed to provide BF'ing support but I'm not sure we can expect them to give expert advice on more serious BF'ing issues eg. incorrect latch, mastitis, thrush etc... Someone correct me if I'm wrong though? I am a LLL member and I love going to my local meetings to chat about BF'ing, family life etc.. and there's a nice sense of camaraderie but when we had problems with tongue tie and thrush I went straight to an LC - not my LLL leader. 

LLL leaders are volunteers after all and don't necessarily have the same level of training and experience as a LC. I'm not sure it's fair to bash the LLL for not being able to help with issues that should really be seen to by a medical professional. 

Maybe I just have very low expectations of LLL (?)

Sorry andbabymakes3 this isn't really about your post - I don't know why you contacted LLL and it certainly is rude of that LLL lady not to at least respond to your emails and calls.


----------



## hivechild

I agree leesie. I went straight to my hospital's lactation consultants when I had any problems. I think i would have probably contacted the LLL for support and advice if the LCs weren't more readily available, but i think i would have expected that if they couldn't give me the necessary support the LLL would have advised and referred me to an LC. It's a shame to hear that people have been let down by their local chapters either way.


----------



## leelee

I wasn't even made aware that there was such a thing as a lactation consultant, despite going to my local NHS breastfeeding preparation class. We were told about BF support groups though, but I heard very mixed reviews about them.

However, I was lucky to have midwives coming out to visit me every day to try and latch LO on. Even though it didn't work for us, it was an excellent service.


----------



## codegirl

I've read some of this thread (not all, sorry, it's very long) but I just had to add that I would think to congratulate a bfing momma because I've lived the stuggle. It's not that I'm putting down anyone that ff but I don't have much experience (supplimented for the first 8 weeks but then was able to fully bf) Having people cheer me on was a major component to being able to fight through our difficulties. Also, momma's that are bfing have no one that can relieve them, no breaks, no sleeping through a feed while DH does it etc, so I guess, remembering that, I think to give them a pat on the back for shouldering that alone.

That being said, when I know a ffing momma that is struggling and she is able to overcome it (reflux, etc) then I'm right there being her cheering squad. I just wouldn't think to congratuate a ffing momma out of the blue without knowing some of the stuggles. That's because I don't KNOW the stuggles because I haven't lived them like I've lived bfing.

It's not about judging their choice, it's about understanding what they are dealing with, IYKWIM.


----------



## babytots

I haven't read the full thread as its so long but I appreciate it when people congratulate me on bf it spurs me on even more to keep at it.

My eldest daughter was ff after bf didn't work out and my youngest daughter I mi fed as found bf so painful. 

This time round I was determined to keep at it and there have been times when I have wanted to quit for e.g when we both got thrush and it was horrendously painful to feed him but I grinned and beared it. 

As a mum who has fed both ways I do feel bf is much harder on women then ff is and as a nation that has a low percentage of bf mums its good that people congratulate us as like I say it certainly spurs me on to keep going. x


----------



## Lu28

leelee said:


> I wasn't even made aware that there was such a thing as a lactation consultant, despite going to my local NHS breastfeeding preparation class. We were told about BF support groups though, but I heard very mixed reviews about them.
> 
> However, I was lucky to have midwives coming out to visit me every day to try and latch LO on. Even though it didn't work for us, it was an excellent service.

I wasn't aware of lactation consultants either, at least ones which were free and we just didn't have the funds to pay privately. I did feel when I was talking to them that I was interrupting their day which contributed to me not feeling as though I'd go to them for help again but that could have been a combination of paranoia and hormones! :lol:


----------



## Blaumba

Oh my god.. I have been reading this thread on and off for a few days. I don't even know if it's still on the first page of Baby Club, have got to page 47 and can't read any more.

Why the hell shouldn't BF be congratulated!!??
It is, in most cases a VERY tough thing to carry out for any length of time. I personally am EXTREMELY proud of myself and in those horrific first few weeks/months every "well done" "your doing so well" "good work" i received was a massive boost to my flagging spirit.
I don't agree with all the crap about mothers who choose not to being selfish, I believe in freedom of choice but it does annoy me that it's even being questioned why BF should be congratulated. It is after all the optimum feeding method for babies and a continued physical demand on the mum. What i mean is, you don't get your body back after the 9 months pregnancy, what you do, eat, drink etc.. has to be considered untill BF stops, in some ways, even more so than during pregnancy. So I think BIG UP to all BF mothers out there. Anyone who takes offence to that needs to look at why this offends them and get a grip.


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## Pearls18

I haven't read the thread I can imagine how it's going lol....so I imagine what I will say will have been said. But I have found BF to be more difficult than I was expecting because so much of the responsiblity has fallen on me, I have friends who are FF mums and they were able to pop out to the cinema, or let their partner do the night shift from day 1. I obviously wasn't able to do this and when I started expressing and giving a bottle I really felt I had some freedom back, so I think in some ways BF by no choice have to sacrifice a little more (not that I see it as a sacrifice as such) but then I understand some FF mums wouldn't want to go away for the night or leave it to their husbands etc but at least there is a bit more choice.

And I imagine this has been said a million times over, but as breast is best (I don't care if people disagree with this saying, it may not be best for the mum but healthy breast milk at this current time IS best for babies) I think it is instinctive to congratulate BF mums on their choice, especially as BF is a bloody hard struggle in those early weeks.

But now BF is firmly established and I have more freedom with expressing I think FF is the tougher arrangement, I really couldn't be bothered with all the sterilising etc especially at night, and the nightmare parents go through with colic sounds awful BF is just so easy, stick them on the boob and you're done (but it's taken weeks to get to that point)

Although I would never judge anyone for choosing to FF, I don't get why you would commend someone for it??????? I mean you would commend someone for how well they are doing bringing up their baby, but not choosing to FF- not that it's a bad choice, just not something you would congratulate IMO???? Just like I wouldn't expect someone to congratulate me for using disposable nappies, but I would perhaps if I was going the extra mile and using cloth nappies?


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## Scally

I havent read it all, sorry. 
I do think breastfeeding needs to be congratulated, it helps your baby so much! Breast is best! I could only do it for 4 weeks because i was so ill, and was advised by docs to stop, and i was devestated. But it was hard, in the beginning for everyone it is hard, constant feeding, lack of sleep etc. I do think even if u can breastfeed just the first day/week whatever u r making a difference to your baby, to their immune system. I also sympathise with people who cannot breastfeed, but still need to congratulate those who do x


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## xpatchx

I think, as others have said, bf'ing AND formula feeding should be congratulated. I tried bf, and couldn't continue as I stopped producing milk. I have since bottle fed my daughter with formula milk. It was hard bf'ing, as I had trouble getting her to latch, had leakage, thrush etc. BUT I also think it's bloody hard FF as I have to, even when sick, get up to wash and sterilize the bottles, remember to buy the damn stuff, make them up, make sure they're cool enough for her (which doesn't help when she's screaming her head off and the bottle just won't cool down!!) and many many more problems.

I think no matter what, most Bf'ing mums will think it's hard, and want congratulations, and most FF'ing mums will think they have the harder time and want some encouragement.

I wanted to bf, and was very jealous of those able to do it but no matter what, my baby is no less healthy/happy than a bf baby.

I just think at the end of the day, we all chose to have our babies, we all want the best we can for them and we ARE ALL doing the best for them, the best we all know. Noone is doing any better than anyone else, so we should all be congratulated for being great mums, breastfeeding or not.


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## littlepne

It's not _how_ we feed them that should be congratulated. We should be congratulated because we feed them, love them, get covered in a number of bodily substances, go through sleep deprivation and all the other things that we do that can be bloody hard work sometimes. I know it's all part of motherhood but it's nice to be told well done sometimes.

So well done everyone!! :):)


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