# Birth Certificate - pros and cons of FOB being named



## suzanne108

I know a lot of us (including me!) are in two minds about this....

So I wondered if anyone had any good advice? A list of pros and cons would be brilliant if anyone has the time :thumbup:

I don't want FOB on the BC because I hate the thought of him having the exact same rights as me....but I also don't really like the thought of "father unknown" or an empty space, because my LO will know who its father is, it might get a bit confused for him not to be named IF they ever saw the BC. (I've made it to 25 and don't think I've ever seen mine!)

I'm making this thread for all of us who are confused about this. Although I know it will depend on individual situations, I think we just need some general advice :flower:


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## asacia

It is fairly easy for FOB to get equal parental rights if not named on the Birth Certificate, it does involve going to court, but very few fathers are denied parental responsibility.

I think it is worth considering how LO will feel if they grow up knowing their father, but discover he was denied the right to be on the birth certificate.


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## ChloesMummy

My 3yr olds biological fathers name is not on the BC through his choice and it really bothers me. Think of how your child will feel when they are grown up and have a blank space where it states 'father name'. I claimed CSA and a DNA test was done so really he does have as much rights even with his name not on it. He could go through the courts anyway and it is very unlikely he will be refused any parental responsibilities.

I have had to use my BC to join the RAF and for various other things x


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## purpledahlia

I dont trust the FOB, hes not going on. 
When do kids ever see their BC?! im 23 and never seen mine, neve occurred to me to want to see it.. i dont? 
Baby will know her mum and her dad.. she doesnt need to see her BC and if she does for a future carreer i will explain to her my reasons of not putting him on. She will understand.


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## AppleBlossom

Pro of FOB being on BC: You will get CSA easily. You can still get CSA if they aren't but it's more difficult
Con: They have "equal responsibility" as a parent. They don't have equal rights, but they have the same responsibilty as you do when it comes to big decisions such as what schol they will go to or if they ever needed an operation. 
To be honest putting him on the BC will not make much of a difference. My ex is on my daughters BC but I am the one that calls the shots when it comes to bringing her up. Yes, when she is older I will have to consult with him on some things but as her mother and her primary carer he doesn't have much say. And I suppose if he wants to be on it you can't deny him to be because at least he wants to be named as and have your child know it does have a father regardless


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## purpledahlia

i dont think he has the right at all.. in my situation. He lives in London and i live in central scotland if i got ill and was unable to care for her for say.. 2 months.. for example, she would most definately go to my mum, therefore be in the same house as me aswell. But if he is on the BC.. he can come up and take her and i wont have a say.. the authoritites wont call it kidnapping because id be ill with ' x ' so he would be allowed to take her to london and i would have no say in where she is, whos looking after her, how shes being treated or cared for, what shes being fed, etc etc, I admit if he lived within 1 hour it would be a very different situation. But he is no way going on it and im writing a will. I dont mind how long CSA takes, and if he wants a DNA out of spite, then fine, thats proof for her to see if she asks that he is her dad. Ill keep the results with the BC. I judt dont trust him in any way shape or form just now. 5 years down the line? maybe itll be diff. x


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## AppleBlossom

purpledahlia said:


> i dont think he has the right at all.. in my situation. He lives in London and i live in central scotland if i got ill and was unable to care for her for say.. 2 months.. for example, she would most definately go to my mum, therefore be in the same house as me aswell. But if he is on the BC.. he can come up and take her and i wont have a say.. the authoritites wont call it kidnapping because id be ill with ' x ' so he would be allowed to take her to london and i would have no say in where she is, whos looking after her, how shes being treated or cared for, what shes being fed, etc etc, I admit if he lived within 1 hour it would be a very different situation. But he is no way going on it and im writing a will. I dont mind how long CSA takes, and if he wants a DNA out of spite, then fine, thats proof for her to see if she asks that he is her dad. Ill keep the results with the BC. I judt dont trust him in any way shape or form just now. 5 years down the line? maybe itll be diff. x

I do agree with this in a way. If you are just stopping him from being on the BC because you "hate him" then I don't feel that is a good enough reason. However if you have a genuine concern, like the one I quoted, then fair enough. If I was ill, my ex wouldn't even know because he never asks how me or my daughter are and only sees her out of habit. So whether he is on the BC or not I would let a member of my family look after her for a bit. But if FOB intends to be around a lot and taking a genuine interest in his childs life then those kind of things are hard to hide from them. A part of me wishes my ex wasn't on the BC because if anything happened to me I wouldn't want Grace to go to him, I would give her to her godparents. It's just long term things you need to think about really


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## asacia

purpledahlia said:


> I dont trust the FOB, hes not going on.
> When do kids ever see their BC?! im 23 and never seen mine, neve occurred to me to want to see it.. i dont?
> Baby will know her mum and her dad.. she doesnt need to see her BC and if she does for a future carreer i will explain to her my reasons of not putting him on. She will understand.

I use my Birth Certificate all the time. I had to take it to school for a group passport when I was 11. When I left home at 17 I used it to apply for my marriage license, to open a bank account, to apply for a mortgage and for renting a house. I also needed it for two passport applications and I think for my provisional drivers license. They are commonly used, and most people will look at theirs at some point.


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## purpledahlia

yeah, i think everyone needs to look at their *individual* reasons/concerns and situations. Id the FOB lived just up the road or something then once shes at school i wouldnt have a problem with her going to his overnight or something, but as he lives so far, if he is on the BC he could fight for having her 50% of the year ! And theres no way shes going to him half the year, n courts would say that shes not to change schools but go to his on all holidays! and her bday and xmas will be so close, then summer and easter is the only time i have to take her away. it wouldnt be fair if he got her on all the holidays! etc,
but yeh, if someone is gonna not put him on just to spite him because he wants on and she doesnt want him on.. then thats not fair,


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## purpledahlia

asacia said:


> purpledahlia said:
> 
> 
> I dont trust the FOB, hes not going on.
> When do kids ever see their BC?! im 23 and never seen mine, neve occurred to me to want to see it.. i dont?
> Baby will know her mum and her dad.. she doesnt need to see her BC and if she does for a future carreer i will explain to her my reasons of not putting him on. She will understand.
> 
> I use my Birth Certificate all the time. I had to take it to school for a group passport when I was 11. When I left home at 17 I used it to apply for my marriage license, to open a bank account, to apply for a mortgage and for renting a house. I also needed it for two passport applications and I think for my provisional drivers license. They are commonly used, and most people will look at theirs at some point.Click to expand...

well its diff for some ppl then. Ive rented 3 flats and got 4 passports and my divers liscence without ever needing it :shrug: never needed it for bank acc's either,


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## Wobbles

Think your child has the right to have her father named on the certificate. I hated the fact mine was 'blank'. My kids originals are in their baby boxes.

Only _extreme _reasons would make me not put the father on.


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## suzanne108

Thanks for the replies so far!! 

I agree that it depends on individual situations...I just need general advice. 

I am more leaning towards putting him on the BC...that thought of LO seeing it with no name on there. As much as I can explain things, I think it would still confuse them. I know that I wouldn't like it. 

BUT long term....putting them in schools, taking them on holiday and any medical decisions...would he have to give permission in writing? And what if something happened to me, if I died (god forbid and everything but these things have to be thought about!) would he automatically get the child? I can make a will to say who I want LO to go to, but if he was on the BC would it mean that he got LO anyway?? 

Purpledahlia I'm in a similar situation to you I think....FOB lives 2-3 hours away, only gets in touch when he can be arsed (about once every 2 weeks) although claims that he wants to be part of babies life. And I've never needed my BC for passport/driving license/bank accounts etc either.


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## suzanne108

Wobbles said:


> Think your child has the right to have her father named on the certificate. I hated the fact mine was 'blank'. My kids originals are in their baby boxes.
> 
> Only _extreme _reasons would make me not put the father on.


I don't necessarily agree that a child has the right to have her father named on the BC. 

Not all biological fathers are good dads...and up to now my FOB hasn't proved himself to be a good dad. :shrug:


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## purpledahlia

The FOB has to proove he is gonna stick around. I am not or will not put him on untill he has done this. Then he can get on it.. piss me around.. not give permission for things like holidays.. and decide to F off whenever he likes? what if he decided one year down the line he cant be arsed with us and never wants to see us again?! And im stuck having to ask his permisson for things? He wont even give me his new adress. He has to proove commitment and stability for the child. 
As far as it stands just now, she will know and see her dad, why does a bit of paper make a difference.. it doesnt IMO. she wont see her BC till she is old enough to sit down and listen to my reasons, and by then he may well even be on it if he prooves himself. 
Cant run the risk of him taking her away from my family to london if something happened to me. Infact, when he was being abusive and telling me i was a selfish Bitch and ruined his life and he hated me and all the rest, one thing he said was '' you'll never get my name on that birth cert, thats one thing you'll never get '' So im going by that, i dont want it.


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## Lexi's Mummy

suzanne108 said:


> Wobbles said:
> 
> 
> Think your child has the right to have her father named on the certificate. I hated the fact mine was 'blank'. My kids originals are in their baby boxes.
> 
> Only _extreme _reasons would make me not put the father on.
> 
> 
> I don't necessarily agree that a child has the right to have her father named on the BC.
> 
> Not all biological fathers are good dads...and up to now my FOB hasn't proved himself to be a good dad. :shrug:Click to expand...

i dont think lexi's dad has the right to be on the birth certificate at all.. he's a waster that does give a toss about her and has never showed a real interest in her. He in no way deserves the responsibility i have over Lex. :D

and also about the birth certificate.. although Lexi's dad isnt on there, the bc doesnt show that. the standard bc doesnt name parents. its the extended that does. I have my bc and it is just a standard one so for all i know my mum n dad could quite possibly not be my mum and dad if you get what i mean lol. i can stil use my bc when its needed and no one needs know whether or not my mum and dad are on there :D x


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## asacia

I think it must be an age thing, I found this on information on applying for a first adult passport:

"If you were born in the UK on or after 1 January 1983, IPS needs to see your full birth or adoption certificate showing your parents' details and one of the following"

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Travel...s/Applyingforyourfirstadultpassport/DG_174100


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## purpledahlia

Weird, I was born in 86, my newest passport i got in june, never needed anything, ive never seen my BC, it doesnt really matter either, im still not putting the FOB on just now.


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## asacia

purpledahlia said:


> Weird, I was born in 86, my newest passport i got in june, never needed anything, ive never seen my BC, it doesnt really matter either, im still not putting the FOB on just now.

Reading a bit more, you don't have to give your BC if you renew from a Child Passport. I didn't have a standard child passport (I was tagged onto my Mum's) so that is why I had to give mine. 

I'm interested in BCs because I had such a hard time registering mine. In the end OH had to register it alone, as I had PND and couldn't get to the appointment. We registered about a week late too. They said he couldn't register alone, unless I signed something to send with him, but I wasn't in the house with him, so I had to do it over the phone. It was all very complicated, and I read up on them a bit to try and figure out what to do!


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## expecting09

I won't be putting the FOB on LO's birth certificate because he's plainly said he doesn't want to be on there, and because he has to be there when I register the birth theres no way he can be put on because he wont come!

I would of rather he was, even though we don't see eye to eye and he wont be seeing her, he's still her father and I don't want to deny her the right of knowing who her dad is


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## purpledahlia

Im just not doing it because he doesnt deserve it, he has no right over this baby, he has shown no commitment to her. I am just thinking of say a 10yr old not understanding why we have to get a letter to go on hol from this man in london who is apparently her dad but shes only seen him a handfull of times. it wont make sense to her. I amnt even really bothered about the £20 csa money i *might get, i dont even want it now, i dont want anything from him and hes not prepared to give much. So i will be siging it alone till he has prooved himself. At the moment shes MY child, not OUR child. hes not even seen me since i was 8 weeks. hes lost all his chances and he needs to earn the responsibilitys back now, im thinking of stability for her thats all. Dont want a strange man coming in and out her life who she doesnt know or understand etc,


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## purpledahlia

expecting09 said:


> I don't want to deny her the right of knowing who her dad is

kids can still know who their dad is without being on the Bc... :shrug:


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## expecting09

purpledahlia said:


> expecting09 said:
> 
> 
> I don't want to deny her the right of knowing who her dad is
> 
> kids can still know who their dad is without being on the Bc... :shrug:Click to expand...

Yeah I'll tell her about him obviously, but I don't want him to lie etc. 

He IS the father at the end of the day, no matter what he has or hasn't done, and it's LO's birth certificate. I know if it was the other way round and I was LO growing up I would want my father on my BC no matter what happened, unless it was *very* bad


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## purpledahlia

Kids dont tend to question their parents on who their parents are tho, LO will believe you anyway showing them a peice of paper wont really mean much to them untill theyre teenager's, in which case they can know and understand everything. Remember if you go down csa route and have to do dna tests, you will have those results to ' proove on paper ' who the babies dad is.. Its about the equal rights for me, im just trying to keep my baby safe and with people who WANT and care for her. but like i said earlier, its individual to each circumstance and case. I just know of a few people who put their babies dads on it and now its their biggest regret.


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## McLovin

if I had a choice I wouldn't be putting my FOB's name on there


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## purpledahlia

you do have a choice! its your baby!


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## McLovin

I live with him though, there's no way I'd be able to get to the registry office with out him knowing - and there'd be hell to pay when he finds out. I can't just put the phone down on him etc. he's there all the time


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## annawrigley

asacia said:


> purpledahlia said:
> 
> 
> I dont trust the FOB, hes not going on.
> When do kids ever see their BC?! im 23 and never seen mine, neve occurred to me to want to see it.. i dont?
> Baby will know her mum and her dad.. she doesnt need to see her BC and if she does for a future carreer i will explain to her my reasons of not putting him on. She will understand.
> 
> I use my Birth Certificate all the time. I had to take it to school for a group passport when I was 11. When I left home at 17 I used it to apply for my marriage license, to open a bank account, to apply for a mortgage and for renting a house. I also needed it for two passport applications and I think for my provisional drivers license. They are commonly used, and most people will look at theirs at some point.Click to expand...

i agree, i have had to use mine a lot xx


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## xxannxx

My ex's name isn't on birth certificate, as he was completely unreliable during pregnancy, and quite unstable, and was worried about him having same rights as me. I don't really think it will matter to my LO in long run whether his name is on it or not, he knows who his father is, and unless ex decides otherwise will have a relationship with him.


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## lou_w34

My ex is not going on either, but its not too spite him or even because i hate him. I think anyone who does that is cruel.

My ex is extremely unrealiable, he hasnt been here through this pregnancy at all, he has done nothing. And im terrified of the thought that if i died, or became seriously ill, he can come down and take her two hours away from my parents, and there is nothing i can do about it. 

I also no that he will not be there after she is born, so i dont think its right that i will have to ask his permission to take her on holiday ect. He was also the one who said that if i had her, i would be ruining his life. He cant even be bothered to come to scans/appointments when i ask him, so i doubt he would even bother to come sign it anyways.

If however he has a change of heart, and somehow manages to show some maturity, he will go on it when i trust him. As long as the baby knows who his/ her dad is then a piece of paper should not matter.


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## purpledahlia

He can always be added, but never removed.


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## lou_w34

Exactly :flower:


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## babybaillie

As LO gets older u will have to use the BC more frequent. I had to show my LO's to school. Then for passport. So when ur wee one grows up and needs a passport which is every 10 years she will see it. Plus i need a disclosure done for work. so far had 4 done and need my BC for this. I would be quite upset if father was blank. but i no what ur saying.

with me my Lo's dads on it. But we have another baby due soon, and i have considered not havin his name on it. but the thought of her growin up with that part blank would make me feel guilty, that id done it for a selfish reason on my part ie him not havin as many rights.

when u said if his name was on d BC and u were takin ill and he took baby and wouldnt b stopped i dont think this is d case. When my LO was 5 months i was hospitilized with post natal depression and when i was being taken to hospital i was asked if i wanted my baby to be left with her dad or for them to take her off him and given to my mum. and we lived together and his name was on BC. I had no problem with him looking after her, but if i had by the sounds of it he couldnt have done anything about stopping me deciding where she went. hope this helps a little


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## purpledahlia

Well he could just technically come up and take her, whether or not you say, since hes joint parental rights. if i was unconcious my parents couldnt stop him, neither would the courts, as he would be on the BC. 

It depends where you live, where your from, and all the rest, i was born in SA and have a british passport, yet ive never needed my BC for anything. We've also lived in 4 diff countries and moved house constantly, and ive never seen it for use at schools or anything, not even trips abroad. So it really depends. I dont believe you def need it for lots.. ive never needed it. Plus.. id be doing all that stuff for her.. why would she need to see it.

I also had a CRB done for work as a nanny and in a school, basically an in-depth police check and didnt need it. passport is enough ID. :)

If you trust the father, then theres not an issue, But if you dont.. you dont know what hes capable of.. its damage limitation really.


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## purpledahlia

sorry, i seem to have taken over this thread, i just am v interested in it as ive done a lot of reaserch with my parents on the subject. I feel quite strongly about my decision thats all. :D


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## annawrigley

my mum just sent me this text about it, might be of some use:

"See www.adviceguide.org.uk. 1) It looks like you can leave father's details blank; you have sole parental rights; you get no maintenance; child has no information about its father. However, think father can get court order to be named. 2) You can go together and include father's name and both share full parental responsibilities and rights; Child Support Agency can require him to pay maintenance."

I think its already all been said here but just throwing that in :p


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## purpledahlia

yep your mume right anna, but you can still get maintenence thru csa if he is not on the BC. Just takes a bit longer, its easier if he is on it just because he cant deny parentage and ask for a dna test.. but you def can still get maintenence without him being on the BC (my friend does, her babys never met her dad and she gets more than £50 a week- took about 5 or 6 months to sort out)
Also child only has no info about the father if child doesnt see the father.. If fob wants to see baby then baby will still know its dad.
:D

Its good to have a thread like this, so people undecided can see diff experiences before applying things to their own situation. i think anyway,


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## Lexi's Mummy

babybaillie said:


> As LO gets older u will have to use the BC more frequent. I had to show my LO's to school. Then for passport. So when ur wee one grows up and needs a passport which is every 10 years she will see it. Plus i need a disclosure done for work. so far had 4 done and need my BC for this.* I would be quite upset if father was blank*. but i no what ur saying.
> 
> with me my Lo's dads on it. But we have another baby due soon, and i have considered not havin his name on it. but the thought of her growin up with that part blank would make me feel guilty, that id done it for a selfish reason on my part ie him not havin as many rights.
> 
> when u said if his name was on d BC and u were takin ill and he took baby and wouldnt b stopped i dont think this is d case. When my LO was 5 months i was hospitilized with post natal depression and when i was being taken to hospital i was asked if i wanted my baby to be left with her dad or for them to take her off him and given to my mum. and we lived together and his name was on BC. I had no problem with him looking after her, but if i had by the sounds of it he couldnt have done anything about stopping me deciding where she went. hope this helps a little

my LO's bc doesnt show my name or unknown father. its just as valid :D x


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## babybaillie

Thats the abreviated BC then. They dont always acept that. When my kids started school, they only wanted full BC's


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## teal

I don't really have a choice when it comes to the birth certificate. I'm in a situation now where my ex can contact me but I can't contact him. 

He said some really horrible things towards me and the baby when I refused to have a termination. I wouldn't have wanted him named anyway.


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## teal

I don't really have a choice when it comes to the birth certificate. I'm in a situation now where my ex can contact me but I can't contact him. 

He said some really horrible things towards me and the baby when I refused to have a termination. I wouldn't have wanted him named anyway.


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## suzanne108

Wow just logged on and saw all the replies, thanks! Seems to be a hot topic.....but I'm still confused about what to do :dohh:


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## Lexi's Mummy

babybaillie said:


> Thats the abreviated BC then. They dont always acept that. When my kids started school, they only wanted full BC's

i have never needed her full bc, neither has my mum with all 8 of us, she has only ever had the abreviated ones. maybe its different in different areas? x


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## staycutee

expecting09 said:


> I won't be putting the FOB on LO's birth certificate because he's plainly said he doesn't want to be on there, and because he has to be there when I register the birth theres no way he can be put on because he wont come!
> 
> I would of rather he was, even though we don't see eye to eye and he wont be seeing her, he's still her father and I don't want to deny her the right of knowing who her dad is

i'm in the same position, he can't be bothered to make a short journey to sign it, so why the hell should i bother to try and persuade him? if it means that little to him then quite frankly i'd rather he didn't sign it. he hasn't been to ONE scan/a[ppointment and doesn't even know the baby is a boy. he has ignored me since i told him apart from sending me one big spiel of a message on facebook to tell me to abort him.. when i was 6 months pregnant. idiot.


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## Lu28

suzanne108 said:


> Wow just logged on and saw all the replies, thanks! Seems to be a hot topic.....but I'm still confused about what to do :dohh:

I used to be a family solicitor so hope I can help you! It's true that if FOB isn't named on the BC then initially you are the only one with parental responsibility. However, if FOB shows commitment to your LO and is involved in their life, if they make an application to the court for parental responsibility, it is highly likely he will get it. It's the type of application that people don't even tend to employ solicitors to go to court with them, it's pretty straightforward.

As for the implications of PR, FOB would have the right to be involved in the major decisions in your LO's life eg education, religion, medical decisions etc. They would need to be consulted in decisions. However, if he wanted to stop you doing something and there was no compromise, he would need to apply to court for either a prohibited steps order to stop you doing something or a specific issues order to make other decisions. This isn't something most people take lightly and unless he's a stubborn so and so, he'd probably only do it for something important, not just to get at you. The court would place a great deal of weight on the fact that you're the primary carer.

So if it's something he's likely to get if he's involved anyway and you're happy this will be the case, then I'd name him on the BC personally - it's a document I've used alot over the years.

Hope that helps :hugs:


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## purpledahlia

So if he was only gonna see LO a few times a year for a week or so at a time.. he probably wouldnt get much in terms of the courts? I know he can apply and that.. but really, for me, he probably wouldnt get as much would he? being so far away? am i right?


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## babybaillie

Lexi's Mummy said:


> babybaillie said:
> 
> 
> Thats the abreviated BC then. They dont always acept that. When my kids started school, they only wanted full BC's
> 
> i have never needed her full bc, neither has my mum with all 8 of us, she has only ever had the abreviated ones. maybe its different in different areas? xClick to expand...


What age is ur daughter? i needed full birth cert for school, and for nursery for both my kids. Wether u need it or not tho anyone at the age of 16 can walk in and buy there own copy.


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## Lu28

purpledahlia said:


> So if he was only gonna see LO a few times a year for a week or so at a time.. he probably wouldnt get much in terms of the courts? I know he can apply and that.. but really, for me, he probably wouldnt get as much would he? being so far away? am i right?

It depends on how he might otherwise be involved in LO's life - if he shows involvement and commitment as far as possible despite the distance then maybe. Basically, the court will want any dedicated parent to have PR - all factors including how far apart you live would be taken into account. I don't know very much about your situation though :hugs:


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## purpledahlia

well so far hes shown no commitment or care not bought a thing or kept in constant contact or seen me since i was 8 weeks... so i think im winning on the parental responsibilities role! obv if he did tho it would be good for the child, but im still not taking him to sign the BC, he can apply if he thinks he will win... doubt he will tho. prob doesnt even know about it. :D


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