# IVF with PGS - how many embryos did you transfer?



## 3chords

I am wondering if there is anyone here who has done IVF with PGS and got at least one PGS-normal embryo?

If so, how many did you subsequently transfer (at the same time)? And what was your outcome?

We are fortunate to have 2 PGS-normal embies banked and now the question is do we live with the twin risk and transfer both in February.


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## beaglemom

I am in the process right now. So far I have 7 embryos but no PGS results yet...today is day 5. Last update was day 3. Personally one of the main reasons we did PGS was for the increased success rate & decrease twin rate. My office only allows 1 transferred if doing PGS. You can do 2 if 38 or older. I am 32. We are highly against twins...if the egg splits, then so be it, but we do not want to do anything to increase our odds. But that is a personal choice. I would say if you transfer 2 (if allowed) bank on the higher percentages of twins. One of the main reasons a transfer fails is a chromosomal abnormality.

I should be doing my 1st FET in January. I was supposed to have a fresh transfer, but my progesterone levels were too high. Good luck in February!!!


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## 3chords

Thanks beaglemom! Good luck with the PGS results, I hope all is well and you are set for transfer in January.

I also had to do a freeze all due to OHSS so that's why we are doing FET. My RE told us that they actually have better results with FET of PGS embryos than the fresh transfer so I am good with the decision either way.

And yes, we were also told if you transfer two to prepare for about 40% odds of twins, though I have seen some other clinics are saying it is closer to 50% which seems so crazy high.


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## beaglemom

I also was at risk for OHSS since I had so many follicles. I was bummed not to have a Christmas positive, but I realize it was a good decision. When the dr told me about my P results he basically very bluntly said if we transfer it will fail, you will not get pregnant. He was not mean about it...just very blunt & realistic. On my day of retrieval even my dr said it was a good decision...otherwise we would be wasting an embryo. So we are okay...just feels like everything is a waiting process.

I am not surprised by those odds. My office says IVF is about a 40-50% success rate & PGS is closer to 70%. So when you transfer 2 embryos you know are good, I would think twin rate is high.


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## beaglemom

Oh...curious when your retrieval was. I have not been told for any reason I can not proceed in January. Just curious why you are doing your FET in February.


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## 3chords

Yep. Hard for me to picture it because I have ALWAYS been on the losing side of the statistics so I feel like if anyone will come up short it will be me!

To give you a sense, we had 4 embryos make it to freezing as blasts (5/6 day) and half of those, so 2, were PGS normal. Which seems like a reasonable percentage at my age. But I generally have crappy eggs/embryos which is why we are doing PGS.


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## beaglemom

3chords said:


> Yep. Hard for me to picture it because I have ALWAYS been on the losing side of the statistics so I feel like if anyone will come up short it will be me!
> 
> To give you a sense, we had 4 embryos make it to freezing as blasts (5/6 day) and half of those, so 2, were PGS normal. Which seems like a reasonable percentage at my age. But I generally have crappy eggs/embryos which is why we are doing PGS.

Ha! Me & my husband have a the same theory. We feel like the odds are NEVER in our favor as well. Seem to be only dealing with sperm count, yet IUIs all failed. So when given the PGS choice, it was a no brainer. The way we saw it, if we did regular IVF & transfer 1, we would fail...if we transferred 2, we undoubtedly would end up with twins. Obviously we would have been very happy at the success...but not so thrilled at the idea of carrying & raising twins. The other side of PGS for us is if it fails, all FETs after are half price (until a successful pregnancy). So the other side of random odds, we figure if we shell out the extra money, we would be successful & never get the benefit of the half off. So we felt a win either way.

I hope I don't sound ungrateful. We have had a rough road so we would welcome twins if that is what is meant to be...we just are not twin crazy. I have seen some twin crazy women on these forums. Some trying to manipulate their meds to increase their odds & things like that.


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## booger76

Hi, 3chords (and Beaglemom :winkwink: )!

We just went through our first IVF in September. My DH and I are really only interested in transferring one embryo at a time (very similar to Beagle in our feelings about twins) so our RE recommended PGS. We ended up with 3 normal embryos (out of 6 total blastocysts that were biopsied). Our clinic had to send the biopsies across the country for genetic analysis so a FET was always in our plans.

We will be transferring one embryo at the end of February so I don't have any results to report yet. My RE said our chances of being successful with elective single embryo transfer of a PGS normal embryo were about 70%. Not too shabby!! I'll take those odds.

Good luck to you!


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## jsquared

Hi Ladies,

I did PGS--I had 12 embryos make it to blast and 5 came back normal. My first transfer (FET), we transferred one and it was BFN--but I had a septum in my uterus--after 2 hysteroscopies there was STILL some septum left over; the next two cycles were cancelled because my lining wouldn't grow beyond 7mm; a third hysteroscopy in the fall revealed the left over septum. Aha!

Unfortunately I just had a third cancelled FET cycle because I was bleeding through the estrace (but the good news is my lining looked "beautiful"--finally; I think I bled because they rushed the recovery and started me on meds too soon without a bleed, but RE only said sometimes these things happen. Hmmm. He is very optimistic regarding the next go though, so I'm trying to be, too). Baseline is scheduled for 12/29.

We still have four PGS-normal frosties. Like Beagle said, we are very much opposed to carrying twins. Ditto on if the embryo splits so be it, but the whole reason we did PGS was so we could transfer one at a time. This is still the plan. My RE gives us a 65% success rate. Not a guarantee, and I did have a PGS embryo fail, but putting in two wouldn't have made a difference because of that awful septum. So, so thankful we didn't waste another.

Lots of waiting and delays in this process. But it will be worth it :)


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## beaglemom

jsquared - are you taking anything to help your lining? POM juice is supposed to be really good. I have always had good lining, but I plan to get back to drinking it before FET anyways because of so many health benefits. I need to get back to drinking juice again. I am slacking. All this fertility nonsense really makes me unmotivated on anything else. So when I am home from work I just want to totally relax & not think about anything else...& I hate feeling like my life is so dictated by all this. So food is another outlet for me. I am trying hard to at least eliminate so much bad stuff. I also need to work harder at drinking fluids in general. I know that will be an issue for me when I am pregnant. I could go all day if I am off work without drinking more than 1 drink or less.


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## jsquared

Beagle, you sound just like me--I never drink enough. Had a kidney stone a few years ago and the urologist was like, drink anything! Coke, water, I don't care. I've been trying to do better with water.

For FET cycles I take estrace pills (4 a day; 2 upstairs, 2 downstairs--fun times!) and wear a patch I change every 3 days. My blood levels are always really high with estrogen even when my lining lags. But this last time, even though we cancelled because of the bleeding, my lining held up really well--trilaminar and thick--so we're thinking the septum was the problem and now it's gone. I did try pom juice back before we knew about the remaining septum, but it didn't help given the circumstances.

I've never taken Lupron, just bcp to suppress before a cycle. But no BCP for this next go--since I'm still taking a half dose of the estrace along with Provera to make me bleed out this current lining, I'm not in danger of ovulating. 

Do you know when you'll start the meds for your FET? We may be transferring around the same time.


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## beaglemom

My meds class is Jan 6. I have to be on bcp at least 2 weeks. I expect AF around Christmas. I have no idea what meds protocol I will be on, so not sure the timing after bcp. Hoping mid January.


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## 3chords

I have always had exemplary lining so I really hope it stays that way. Even with clomid I was never less than 9 mm at trigger and with my IVFs each time I was 15mm and trilaminar. Having said that I am happy to chug POM juice if it helps! I am also terrible with drinking and also had a kidney stone in Jan 2012 which was a miserable experience. It is a struggle to get to the required 2 litres a day every day for me, I'm basically like a camel.

I got my protocol, it's fairly long because we are doing lupron depot which seems not super common but some evidence that it has very high efficacy rates for women with endo and now the thinking is it improves "stickiness" of the embryos. Anyway, my transfer is roughly scheduled for February 13 at this point, if all goes well with my lining checks.

I think the best medical outcome is a single embryo/baby, of that there is little doubt when you look at the risks. But I have to admit we are leaning towards transferring two - after two miscarriages, 2 IVFs and now one FET I am willing to be more aggressive than in the past.


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## booger76

Good morning, ladies!

jsquared - I'm guessing that your septum had something to do with the BFN for the normal embryo you already transferred. I have read a lot about septums and their role in repeat miscarriages. Not because I have had either a septum or repeated miscarriages but because I had to have a hysteroscopy to remove a rather difficult bump that was getting in the way during my mock transfer(s). When I was researching information on that issue, I came across a lot of information about septums since those seem to be a fairly common reason to need a hysteroscopy. I'm sorry you have had to have three! Hopefully you are all healed up and this next one coming up will be successful. I'll be taking Estrace as well, but only the oral kind thankfully.

3chords - Your transfer is scheduled just before mine. I am tentatively scheduled for Feb. 23rd. Only two more months! It's felt like an eternity since my retrieval in September.

Beagle - I hear you on IVF making it hard to care about much else. It's certainly been taking up most of the space in my brain since August.

We know the sex of our 3 normal embryos. Ever since we decided to go the PGS route, our plan was to let the clinic decide which one to transfer and for us to not know the sex. My biggest delimma at this point is trying to decide if that's what we still want to do. Our clinic is located in Washington state and there are no laws against gender selection. I'm still leaning towards letting them choose but it's becoming more and more tempting to pick ourselves.


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## jsquared

Booger, thanks. The septum was certainly a problem and most likely THE problem. The last surgeon had to go behind the wall of the uterus to get it all. We are hopeful this next go will be the one.

Our clinic knows the genders but we don't. We just told them to jput in the best one. They told us they are all excellent (PGS embryos are, I guess) so I said, then pick the one at the top of the list. I do know we have a mix, or we did before the first FET at least, so if I ever did put in two, I think I would ask for one of each. Maybe not though. 

Beagle, I saw your question on the other thread (I'm a stalker :)) I can get my estradiol (Estrace) for FET at Walgreens but everything else (the Progesterone, needles, etc.) I order from Conception Pharmacy. When I tried to order the estrace from them, the woman said I could get it much easier locally and that they don't overnight this drug because places like Walgreens have it. You could order it all together from a fertility pharmacy if you order a few days in advance. I'm just gun shy about ordering meds in advance since I've had three cancelled cycles. This last time, I literally waited until the last possible day to get the Progesterone, and of course! they cancelled the very next day. Sigh. On the upside, it was only $10 after insurance and it stays good for at least 3 months. So I have it here for the upcoming cycle.


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## beaglemom

jsquared said:


> Booger, thanks. The septum was certainly a problem and most likely THE problem. The last surgeon had to go behind the wall of the uterus to get it all. We are hopeful this next go will be the one.
> 
> Our clinic knows the genders but we don't. We just told them to jput in the best one. They told us they are all excellent (PGS embryos are, I guess) so I said, then pick the one at the top of the list. I do know we have a mix, or we did before the first FET at least, so if I ever did put in two, I think I would ask for one of each. Maybe not though.
> 
> Beagle, I saw your question on the other thread (I'm a stalker :)) I can get my estradiol (Estrace) for FET at Walgreens but everything else (the Progesterone, needles, etc.) I order from Conception Pharmacy. When I tried to order the estrace from them, the woman said I could get it much easier locally and that they don't overnight this drug because places like Walgreens have it. You could order it all together from a fertility pharmacy if you order a few days in advance. I'm just gun shy about ordering meds in advance since I've had three cancelled cycles. This last time, I literally waited until the last possible day to get the Progesterone, and of course! they cancelled the very next day. Sigh. On the upside, it was only $10 after insurance and it stays good for at least 3 months. So I have it here for the upcoming cycle.

I am just curious because in January my insurance changes. I have a high deductible & I don't think I have a separate prescription coverage. So I am torn on whether I should move up my meds class so I pay everything in 2014. But I think I will just stop thinking about it & let it be.

I have not heard from my dr office yet...making me nervous & anxious. I am not sure what time to expect it. I think the first was around 9:30, then the next was around 11:15.

I am torn on the gender selection. I heard in NC we are not allowed to pick the gender, but I think we can be told the sex of the embryos tested as well as the one put in but only after the transfer. But I have not asked any of these questions so I don't know for sure. I think my husband is leaning towards not knowing until an u/s. I guess we will see.


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## jsquared

Ugh, an insurance change in the middle of this is a pain. I was excited we had prescription coverage on the FET meds--I guess because they are not strictly fertility drugs? Insurance covered nothing on the IVF meds. Ouch. And everything we've done with the RE has been self pay. No coverage for any of that either. My office doesn't make you pay for a failed cycle, though (I would hope all offices operate this way) so we haven't paid anything since September. Lots of ultrasounds and blood draws but no additional charges at least.

I've got my fingers crossed for good news for you later this morning!! People say it only takes one and it's tempting to think, yeah whatever, but it's true! One PGS embie plus good lining most likely = pregnant!


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## beaglemom

jsquared said:


> Ugh, an insurance change in the middle of this is a pain. I was excited we had prescription coverage on the FET meds--I guess because they are not strictly fertility drugs? Insurance covered nothing on the IVF meds. Ouch. And everything we've done with the RE has been self pay. No coverage for any of that either. My office doesn't make you pay for a failed cycle, though (I would hope all offices operate this way) so we haven't paid anything since September. Lots of ultrasounds and blood draws but no additional charges at least.
> 
> I've got my fingers crossed for good news for you later this morning!! People say it only takes one and it's tempting to think, yeah whatever, but it's true! One PGS embie plus good lining most likely = pregnant!

Sadly that is not the case with everyone. My office has a plan you can get where you get some money back if it fails...but that plan is more expensive. With PGS, I do get 50% off FETs.

Yes I switched my plan to get a lower premium. Typically I am not someone who goes to the dr. This process is the first time I have ever even put anything toward my deductible in YEARS. So it was a good decision on that end. We were taking the risk that I would be pregnant by the end of the year. Would have paid off if my fresh transfer had not been cancelled. But overall I am still okay with our decision.


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## jsquared

Oh I misspoke! No charge for a CANCELLED cycle. Failed cycles mean you get some sort of discount the next time--I think you don't have to pay the physician's fee or something. No, I doubt anyone gives out free IVF if the first one fails. That'd be awesome though.


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## beaglemom

Okay...we have 5 embryos that were biopsied. So I guess we lost 2. The sample is going to the lab this afternoon with results early next week. I cannot believe more waiting.

Someone on the threads said no gender selection in NC. Well that is not true. But my office does not allow PGS for the sole purpose of gender selection. They also transfer the best one...so no input from us on what gender we want. Still unsure if we want to know the sex. Maybe once a positive beta.

I felt an odd sense of relief & anxiety all at the same time. I was happy to hear 5, but then kept thinking I started with 14. I think the odds are something like 33%...I think that is something Erin said...1 out of 3. So I should get at least one...fingers crossed I get 2.


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## jsquared

5 biopsied is great!! I think you will have at least two, if not more! I had 12 biopsied, got 5, so a little over 40%. But I remember reading percentages back during our biopsy, and it seemed like results were all over the place, so you may easily have greater success! 

I understand your clinic wants to put in the best one, but really, after PGS--at least in my experience--they're all excellent. Interesting they won't even give you the option of choosing. Hmmm. I don't want to know until a BFP, maybe even wait for the ultrasound. I want it to all feel as "normal" as possible, if there is such a thing. On the other hand, if the RE knows and the nurses know then I might not be able to help myself! My partner would wait until the birth to find out if I'd let her. I already told her that is not happening.


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## beaglemom

jsquared said:


> 5 biopsied is great!! I think you will have at least two, if not more! I had 12 biopsied, got 5, so a little over 40%. But I remember reading percentages back during our biopsy, and it seemed like results were all over the place, so you may easily have greater success!
> 
> I understand your clinic wants to put in the best one, but really, after PGS--at least in my experience--they're all excellent. Interesting they won't even give you the option of choosing. Hmmm. I don't want to know until a BFP, maybe even wait for the ultrasound. I want it to all feel as "normal" as possible, if there is such a thing. On the other hand, if the RE knows and the nurses know then I might not be able to help myself! My partner would wait until the birth to find out if I'd let her. I already told her that is not happening.

Normal is what we were aiming for as well. But someone on a thread said something that got me thinking. We pay all this extra money for IVF & PGS...we might as well get some perks no one else gets. Being able to know at 4 weeks the gender...pretty awesome.


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## 3chords

beagle - 5 biopsied is great! The waiting game sucks, seems like all we do is wait, but it will be worth it in the end.

It's against the law in Ontario to do sex selection so our clinic is not able to tell us what sex the two PGS normal embryos are until they are transferred. Either way we would not want to know until we reach the end of the first trimester as we have had recurrent losses and so I like to keep some level of detachment as long as possible.


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## beaglemom

I got my results back about a week ago. We have 2 normal from PGS. My meds class for FET is Tuesday & hopefully the FET will not be too far after.


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## 3chords

beagle, that's great! Gives you two fantastic chances. :)

It is illegal to do gender selection in our jurisdiction. I also don't think we want to know until later on. With my two miscarriages, I am very weary of finding out before the 2nd semester. And then I think to myself that everything about our process has been so artificial that it might be nice to just find out at the 20 week scan like most "normal" women. But we're not 100% decided.


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## beaglemom

I think we are going to ask for the results in an envelope on the day of transfer. Then make our own decision when we find out. But def not waiting for the scan.


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## jsquared

Yay Beagle! Two healthy embryos--fantastic! Transfer will be here before you know it. Do you know what forms of estrace and progesterone you'll be on? I started my estrogen for this cycle on Monday--I take 8mg daily (2 oral, 2 vaginal--fun fun). First lining check this coming Monday. Hopefully all goes as it should...


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## beaglemom

jsquared said:


> Yay Beagle! Two healthy embryos--fantastic! Transfer will be here before you know it. Do you know what forms of estrace and progesterone you'll be on? I started my estrogen for this cycle on Monday--I take 8mg daily (2 oral, 2 vaginal--fun fun). First lining check this coming Monday. Hopefully all goes as it should...

I don't really know anything yet. The only thing I have been told is to start bcp when my cycle started & I would have to be on them at least 2 weeks. My class is Tues so I should get all my info then. At the date of class I would have been on bcp for 2 weeks.


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