# pregnant with baby number 20!



## BrEeZeY

has anyone watched the tv series 19 and counting????


if u have never heard of it, its a family that has 19 kids, the wife is now 45 and pregnant with number 20..... :wacko: 

her last pregnancy was 3 months premature and was advised to not get pregnant again and now she is

in my opinion its kinda ridiculous, i love kids dont get me wrong but i find it selfish to have that many kids when there are so many kids that could be adopted and the fact that putting your baby in such a risk.....i mean of course she could have a healthy baby but really she already has a grandbaby and in my opinion once your kids start having kids its their turn i mean i understand there are different situations but in this case i believe its time to let ur kids have kids and she needs to be a grandma.... but just my opinion what does everyone else think???


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## amygwen

I think it's very over the top and ridiculous. I think they're very very selfish.

I've watched that show before and the older kids take care of the younger kids, which IMO is ridiculous. They say they enjoy it, which I'm sure they enjoy it to an extent only because they've been taking care of kids their whole lives. I don't understand how the parents can have THAT many kids and show each one of them the same amount of attention and love that each child deserves. 

Their last baby almost died because it was born so premature (which obviously could happen to ANYONE) but I can't help but think that this is a lot to do with how many children she has had. I really hope this next baby isn't born premature and nothing is wrong since she was advised not to have any more pregnancies. Anyway, they need to stop having kids. Or use some sort of birth control, they are way too fertile.


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## x__amour

I have watched bits. I can't believe she's pregnant with 20!


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## 10.11.12

It's insane. How in the world can they possibly have a one-on-one relationship with all their kids? and they homeschool too so they must be spread so thin. I don't think I'd be able to get the names straight (they all start with J)


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## BrEeZeY

^^^^ no joke! i didnt realize how many "J" names there were!!! lol i jst find it very selfish and crazyness!


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## we can't wait

I watch that show all the time. :blush:
When I heard Michelle was pregnant with number 20, I just kind of shook my head. I know that it's what they've chosen to do regarding their religious views, but I just can't fathom the logic behind having another after what happened with Josie! She had such a rough first year! She was in and out of the hospital routinely. Michelle had to live in a house in a different part of the state (away from her other 18 children) so that she could be near the hospital Josie was in. With her advanced maternal age (and number of previous pregnancies) she's already entering herself into a high risk situation. The desire for another pregnancy shouldn't make her forget that she's not only putting her own life in jeopardy, but her baby's life as well-- and the well-being of her husband, 19 other children, and 2 grandchildren. It's absolutely ridiculous, IMO. 

I'm all for the "live and let live" policy, but at some point they're going to need to take a step back and ask themselves if they are doing what is right for their entire family, and not just themselves.


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## 17thy

That's disappointing. At this point they've made it clear to her that being pregnant it is a danger to herself and her unborn child. Her body has been getting weaker and weaker with each pregnancy. I just hope that it goes okay and doesn't backfire on her.


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## ONoez2010

I watch the show whenever I can.. Am I the only one that thinks she isn't maternal at all?? All she does is let the older girls take care of the new babies.. I really hope everything goes well with this new baby


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## xCookieDough

*Is this shown in UK?!*


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## BrEeZeY

its a US show idk if it shows in the UK


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## lauram_92

xCookieDough said:


> *Is this shown in UK?!*

Yeah I am pretty sure it does. I seen it when it was '18 kids and counting'..


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## Ashleii15

It's actually was 18 and counting and she's pregnant with 19.. Lol.


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## 17thy

Ashleii15 said:


> It's actually was 18 and counting and she's pregnant with 19.. Lol.

Actually it was 18 before, then she had 19 and it was 19 and counting, now she's pregnant with 20.


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## vicky125

im in aus and we get it here aswell, but to watch it you have to have a subscription service... last time i saw it it was 19 and counting and she had just had josie
IMO once your child has a baby, you should stop.. i mean i get it if you have 1-4 and want another, then maybe. But almost 20 is getting ridiculous.. 
personally I would stop when my youngest has kids, but id be finished having mine way before that time comes. (plan is 4-6) and I'm only 19 atm

i think it would be weird having an uncle/aunt younger then you.. i have a friend whose nan had 6 and his youngest uncle is a few months younger then him but she had stopped after that..


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## vicky125

just think, she would have to go through menopause soon enough.. :D


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## Ashleii15

Sorry.. Here I have just seen it where she has had her 19th kid.. I haven't seen the show where she is expecting number 20. My bad.


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## 17thy

Ashleii15 said:


> Sorry.. Here I have just seen it where she has had her 19th kid.. I haven't seen the show where she is expecting number 20. My bad.

I don't think its been on the show yet, she just announced it to everyone (like the media and such). Could be wrong though.


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## unconditional

this actually sickens me. after having the last one premature, you think that would be a hint to stop. i know it has to do with her religion...whatever...having Josie prem, they should've took that as a sign to stop. her body has already gone through having 19 babies. 19!!! that's insane. i just pray that nothing happens to this baby..


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## xforuiholdonx

Ive read that at the beginning of their marriage, the opted for her to be on birth control, and she miscarried from it. From then on, she hasnt taken a pill. I find it unfair on her kids, and grandchildren. Truly. There is no need for that many. Plus the health risks, for her and baby are beyond high. She needs to go through menopause before they have another. Its ridiculous. 20 kids. Wow.


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## Chelsea.ann1

I think it's irresponsible and unfair to all those children.


They don't get to have childhoods.. From the time they can walk their to help with chores and caring for younger siblings.

Not fair.

EDIT - It is official, she announced it herself not long ago.


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## vicky125

Chelsea.ann1 said:


> I think it's irresponsible and unfair to all those children.
> 
> 
> They don't get to have childhoods.. From the time they can walk their to help with chores and caring for younger siblings.
> 
> Not fair.
> 
> EDIT - It is official, she announced it herself not long ago.

i wonder how many more she will have before menopause hits?

and i know what you mean about no childhood, my mum had 5 of us and she couldn't handle it, I'm the oldest and like this family, i helped raise my youngest siblings and do chores. i sort of resent my parents for it but as oh and i started our family young its given me that knowledge most young mothers don't exactly have.. so in another way I'm glad it worked the way she did.. and although oh plans on having a large family aswell, i plan to do the opposite to what my parents did


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## newmommy23

it's incredibly selfish. those kids are basically raising each other. =/


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## Chelsea.ann1

vicky125 said:


> Chelsea.ann1 said:
> 
> 
> I think it's irresponsible and unfair to all those children.
> 
> 
> They don't get to have childhoods.. From the time they can walk their to help with chores and caring for younger siblings.
> 
> Not fair.
> 
> EDIT - It is official, she announced it herself not long ago.
> 
> i wonder how many more she will have before menopause hits?
> 
> and i know what you mean about no childhood, my mum had 5 of us and she couldn't handle it, I'm the oldest and like this family, i helped raise my youngest siblings and do chores. i sort of resent my parents for it but as oh and i started our family young its given me that knowledge most young mothers don't exactly have.. so in another way I'm glad it worked the way she did.. and although oh plans on having a large family aswell, i plan to do the opposite to what my parents didClick to expand...


Yea I come from a big family though (many many little cousins) i helped raise alot of them.. I'm grateful for that in a sense, like you said, I know what I'm doing and it's not new to me...

But in no way did I lose out on my childhood and have any obligation to raise them.... i couldn't imagine that :nope: 

Not fair to you! 

Could you imagine 19! siblings! no!!!!


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## annawrigley

:nope: I agree. Very selfish and unfair. And the J thing is fucking stupid. Its like me when I was 6 "I'm gonna have 20 babies and call them all names beginning with J! Cute!" Not cute, stupid. Imagine how often they get letters addressed to "J Duggar" :dohh: Fail.

I don't think you should stop having kids once your kids have kids... If Noah got a girl pregnant when he was 14 (God forbid!!!) I would only be 31 and if I wanted to have another baby then, I would :shrug: If my kid wants to go get knocked up/knock someone else up its nothing to do with my womb :haha: I do agree in general though. I think once your kids are like in a stable relationship, married, moved out, and having kids or whatever (the 'proper' way :lol:) then I'd sit back and be a grandparent. But if I only had Noah by that time I would probably have more. But not 19 more :winkwink:


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## Desi's_lost

Ughhhhh this annoys the piss out of me. What right do they think they have to have another child after their last one nearly died?! Okay, if its your first child and all those shenanigans happen, perfectly fair to you but its nearly certain that the complications were caused by her age and the number of children she has had. No matter how you slice it, there is no way she has played a mother role in each and every one of those childrens lives...you cant even spend an hour a day with each one- you'd only get 4 hours sleep a day!

Next on, if its true that at one point she took birth control pills and she felt that led to a MC fair enough, no more pills but they've made their 'its a religious choice' null and void. Put on a fucking condom. There is no scientific link whatsoever between condom use and MC. 

Honestly, if you want a family that big, adopt! There are thousands of children who need a home. :thumbup:

Its nothing but a publicity thing at this point, imo. Utterly selfish.


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## QuintinsMommy

im the only one who LOVES this family. All the kids and parents work together to one happy big family. 
they do work for charities together... etc
the duggers have one grandchild I think and they held a huge baby shower and everything it was sweet :)
all the kids are well looked after


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## SIEGAL

I am not a teen but I saw this pop up on the right and I love this show and had to comment! I think they are weird to have 20 kids but I don't think its our place to judge. Very judgy here, the comments are harsh....except QuintinsMommy. The same way you may think 45 is too old and too dangerous and not enough attention some people may say the same about a 16 yr old having a kid, too young, unmarried, (insert other bad comment here about teenage mothers). 
No one likes being judged.


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## Desi's_lost

call it judgey all you like, how can you justify choosing to have another child knowing there is a legitimate chance the child will die or worse, suffer and die? Its not even ethical.


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## faolan5109

To be honest I really don't think mrs. duggar had much of a choice in having twenty children. Its generally what happens happens and if he happens to fall pregnant again then she does. I do think they should ( meaning mr duggar here) should not have sex when they know its that time. I'm sorry after 19 children you know when you ovulate, you have to. I really feel bad for her to be honest.


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## QuintinsMommy

Desi's_lost said:


> call it judgey all you like, how can you justify choosing to have another child knowing there is a legitimate chance the child will die or worse, suffer and die? Its not even ethical.

how would it die? :wacko:


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## unconditional

QuintinsMommy said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> call it judgey all you like, how can you justify choosing to have another child knowing there is a legitimate chance the child will die or worse, suffer and die? Its not even ethical.
> 
> how would it die? :wacko:Click to expand...

he last child was prem (almost died; mother aswell i believe) they were warned not to TTC again.


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## QuintinsMommy

unconditional said:


> QuintinsMommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> call it judgey all you like, how can you justify choosing to have another child knowing there is a legitimate chance the child will die or worse, suffer and die? Its not even ethical.
> 
> how would it die? :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> he last child was prem (almost died; mother aswell i believe) they were warned not to TTC again.Click to expand...

alot of people have more children even tho they had someone go wrong with the one before.


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## unconditional

QuintinsMommy said:


> unconditional said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QuintinsMommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> call it judgey all you like, how can you justify choosing to have another child knowing there is a legitimate chance the child will die or worse, suffer and die? Its not even ethical.
> 
> how would it die? :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> he last child was prem (almost died; mother aswell i believe) they were warned not to TTC again.Click to expand...
> 
> alot of people have more children even tho they had someone go wrong with the one before.Click to expand...

ya but after 19?? :wacko:


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## Desi's_lost

unconditional said:


> QuintinsMommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> call it judgey all you like, how can you justify choosing to have another child knowing there is a legitimate chance the child will die or worse, suffer and die? Its not even ethical.
> 
> how would it die? :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> he last child was prem (almost died; mother aswell i believe) they were warned not to TTC again.Click to expand...

From what I understand their last baby was 2-3 months premature, then had an issue with her intestines. She nearly died. 
As I said, if it's you're first/second child thats premature probably not your fault but not only is this woman at a higher risk because of her age, she was also warned against having more children. I cant understand why someone would purposely put themselves in such a dangerous place.


And as much as i'm hated for it, this is painfully true as well:



> Alan Weisman, the author of "The World Without Us," raises another concern, about the Duggar family's impact on the environment. Each child, he said, multiplies his mother's carbon legacy by 5.7 percent, which means the Duggar children alone could be responsible for contributing more than a million metric tons of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.
> 
> "Big families have always been portrayed as something lovable and beautiful," Weisman said. "Think of 'The Waltons.' But we do have an issue now, where it's not just about home and family. It's about the planet, and the planet hasn't gotten any bigger. We only have one atmosphere."

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainmen...regnancy/story?id=9332030&page=3#.TtI_r2MT8u4

Oh and correct me if im wrong, but arent you at a higher risk of eclampsyia if you've had it before? the baby had to be sectioned out at 25 weeks o.o


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## QuintinsMommy

cows are a huge impact on the environment but we only keep producing more desi.


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## Desi's_lost

XDDDD we also eat those, do we not?


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## QuintinsMommy

Desi's_lost said:


> XDDDD we also eat those, do we not?

speak for yourself.
but if you want to say that the family is bad for the environment maybe you should think about your beef intake and how horrible it is for the environment.


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## Desi's_lost

Do you drink milk?

That counts.


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## SIEGAL

Don't forget the impact of disposable diapers, gas (even if you use the bus), water waste (does your shower last more than 3 mins?), automatic dishwashers, plastic of any kind, do you make a compost heap?, I could go on....
we all do things bad for the environment. Its unfair to pick and choose.


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## QuintinsMommy

SIEGAL said:


> Don't forget the impact of disposable diapers, gas (even if you use the bus), water waste (does your shower last more than 3 mins?), automatic dishwashers, plastic of any kind, do you make a compost heap?, I could go on....
> we all do things bad for the environment. Its unfair to pick and choose.

:thumbup: yep the duggers handmake alot of food etc..(eliminating alot of etxra packaging) and pass down clothes from one child to the next ..use the same toys..etc :thumbup:


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## Desi's_lost

I think its necessarily for each person to do *what they can*


If you can explain the point of 20 children to me, be my guest but good luck getting around the fact that its impossible to spend even an hour of one on one time with your children when you have 20 of them.


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## QuintinsMommy

Desi's_lost said:


> I think its necessarily for each person to do *what they can*
> 
> 
> If you can explain the point of 20 children to me, be my guest but good luck getting around the fact that its impossible to spend even an hour of one on one time with your children when you have 20 of them.

many people have 2 children and rarely spend one on one time with them.


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## Desi's_lost

QuintinsMommy said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> I think its necessarily for each person to do *what they can*
> 
> 
> If you can explain the point of 20 children to me, be my guest but good luck getting around the fact that its impossible to spend even an hour of one on one time with your children when you have 20 of them.
> 
> many people have 2 children and rarely spend one on one time with them.Click to expand...

Thats called bad parenting and/or being a victim of the times. Its not the parents intention to not spend time with the child when they are forced to work long hours.

Maybe we should have a poll to see how many hours a day the ladies on here spend one on one or with their oh/fob with their children.


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## QuintinsMommy

Desi's_lost said:


> QuintinsMommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> I think its necessarily for each person to do *what they can*
> 
> 
> If you can explain the point of 20 children to me, be my guest but good luck getting around the fact that its impossible to spend even an hour of one on one time with your children when you have 20 of them.
> 
> many people have 2 children and rarely spend one on one time with them.Click to expand...
> 
> Thats called bad parenting and/or being a victim of the times. Its not the parents intention to not spend time with the child when they are forced to work long hours.
> 
> Maybe we should have a poll to see how many hours a day the ladies on here spend one on one or with their oh/fob with their children.Click to expand...

go ahead. :haha: ask a group that has more then 1 child.


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## Natasha2605

Er how have we ended up talking about beef, cows and milk?

And seriously, picking at them because they're harming the enviroment?! So are five separate families with two children each, only diff is they are probably polluting it more! 

Back on topic, I do think she probably should have stopped, when you have so many premature children and are really harming your health it should usually be taken as a sign that maybe your body can't cope and you should stop?!


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## QuintinsMommy

Natasha2605 said:


> Er how have we ended up talking about beef, cows and milk?
> 
> And seriously, picking at them because they're harming the enviroment?! So are five separate families with two children each, only diff is they are probably polluting it more!
> 
> *Back on topic, I do think she probably should have stopped, when you have so many premature children and are really harming your health it should usually be taken as a sign that maybe your body can't cope and you should stop?!*

i thought she only had one premature child


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## almostXmagic

im probably going to get flagged for this but im going to say it anyway as its my opinion. im actually perfectly fine with the fact they have chosen to have another baby. they can afford all of their children. all the kids are well taken care of and if you watch the show enough you really can see where the parents get that one on one time with each child and they know each child individually. i guess i can relate to them in the fact that i share the same religion as them and their children are being raised in the Lord and have had more learning opportunities than any child i know. they arnt exposed to TV (unless its biblical/age appropriate movies such as veggie tales) so their children are VERY creative and well rounded. you can practically feel the love in that house hold. the parents use "time out" as a discipline method but they do it in a very loving and teachable way where Michelle or Jim Bob sit down with the child an read them a story or pray with them until they have calmed down. they dont raise their voices, the kids are extremely happy, the parents are able to provide for the children in whatever their needs are and i think they are an amazing example of the closeness of family. as for the choosing to have another child thing, the baby was not planned and because of their religion they do not (A-word). you know, honestly who are we to judge a family who we dont even know. iv seen nothing but good come from that family so i will continue to support them. i honestly dont care how many kids they have as long as they can support them fully then its not my concern. :flower: (i will now step off my soap box lol)


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## almostXmagic

QuintinsMommy said:


> Natasha2605 said:
> 
> 
> Er how have we ended up talking about beef, cows and milk?
> 
> And seriously, picking at them because they're harming the enviroment?! So are five separate families with two children each, only diff is they are probably polluting it more!
> 
> *Back on topic, I do think she probably should have stopped, when you have so many premature children and are really harming your health it should usually be taken as a sign that maybe your body can't cope and you should stop?!*
> 
> *i thought she only had one premature child*Click to expand...

she did. Josie was the first and only preemie so far. even her twins were born full term. 

as for the harming the environment stuff, thats just crap. i dont even think i need to explain why. 

the one on one thing? she home schools all of them. Jim Bob own his own business and makes his own hours so that he is home more than not. they are always making trips to the stores where they will take one or two children with them or working around the farm where they will have one or two of the kids help out and stuff. they may not get to spend one on one time with each child each day but atleast every other day they are spending significant time with their children. even the kids themselves have vouched for that. i would say they know each of their children just as well as my mom knew/knows me and my 3 siblings.


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## Natasha2605

My bad then, from the way they've been talked about on the forum here and elsewhere I'm sure people have stated they have had more than one premmie child xx


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## annawrigley

SIEGAL said:


> I am not a teen but I saw this pop up on the right and I love this show and had to comment! I think they are weird to have 20 kids but I don't think its our place to judge. Very judgy here, the comments are harsh....except QuintinsMommy. The same way you may think 45 is too old and too dangerous and not enough attention some people may say the same about a 16 yr old having a kid, too young, unmarried, (insert other bad comment here about teenage mothers).
> No one likes being judged.

16 is prime child bearing age, 45 is not. Marriage has nothing to do with it. Its a fact that the older you get, the higher your chance of having a child with a disability or genetic abnormality. There is little to no biological risk of having a child at 16. Just because society may look down upon teen pregnancy, it is way less risky FOR THE CHILD than giving birth at 45.


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## newmommy23

To me, its not about environmental, religion what ever. I feel bad for the KIDS. I have friends with 6 siblings that legitimately hated having so many. They are straight up robbed of their childhood having to raise each other like that. I mean, I get if they were conceived "ntnp" but they weren't. They purposely have as many kids as they can. To me, that's just like....I don't know it seems ridiculous to me? 


> The Duggars raise their children using a buddy system, wherein an older sibling is assigned to a younger sibling and assists in their primary care. According to Michelle, "they help them with their little phonics lessons and games during the day and help them practice their music lessons. They will play with them or help them pick out the color of their outfit that day and just all of those types of things."

And also, I don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but the amount of people donating food to this family could be helping starving and impoverished children in other countries. If only the tv networks would look at that, but people don't want to see that. Reality tv pisses me off equally for that reason, but seriously, these people breed. There is nothing else particularly charming about them. But that's just my opinion, and obviously people like them, or they wouldn't throw thousands of dollars and donations of food at them year round while they consciously and purposely continue to procreate.


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## SIEGAL

annawrigley said:


> SIEGAL said:
> 
> 
> I am not a teen but I saw this pop up on the right and I love this show and had to comment! I think they are weird to have 20 kids but I don't think its our place to judge. Very judgy here, the comments are harsh....except QuintinsMommy. The same way you may think 45 is too old and too dangerous and not enough attention some people may say the same about a 16 yr old having a kid, too young, unmarried, (insert other bad comment here about teenage mothers).
> No one likes being judged.
> 
> 16 is prime child bearing age, 45 is not. Marriage has nothing to do with it. Its a fact that the older you get, the higher your chance of having a child with a disability or genetic abnormality. There is little to no biological risk of having a child at 16. Just because society may look down upon teen pregnancy, it is way less risky FOR THE CHILD than giving birth at 45.Click to expand...

Actually this is no entirely true (mid 20's is the prime age) but this isn't my section anyway and I don't want to get on anyones nerves. I just saw Duggars and had to comment! I would never start a post to say, "unmarried teenager pregnant! negative thoughts?" Its just not nice. But evidently its totally OK to say people are too old, or if they had a complication in the past they shouldnt have children. Its just not nice. Alot of women over 40 and ones with past pregnancy complications would not be so nice. That is all I was trying to say.


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## mayb_baby

almostXmagic said:


> she did. Josie was the first and only preemie so far. even her twins were born full term.
> 
> as for the harming the environment stuff, thats just crap. i dont even think i need to explain why.
> 
> the one on one thing? she home schools all of them. Jim Bob own his own business and makes his own hours so that he is home more than not. they are always making trips to the stores where they will take one or two children with them or working around the farm where they will have one or two of the kids help out and stuff. they may not get to spend one on one time with each child each day but atleast every other day they are spending significant time with their children. even the kids themselves have vouched for that. i would say they know each of their children just as well as my mom knew/knows me and my 3 siblings.

Umm I am sorry but I am not a big 'pro green person' but the Duggers are a huge impact on the environment I mean really, now that Mr Dugger has pimped his family onto a TV show they have money to travel. They take up 4times the amount of transport an average family does, they clearly use washer dryers more than you 'average family' so no that's a FACT not crap. You get my point I could go on but yeah that's just 'common sense' 

I doubt you could have the 'quality one on one time' you could have with even a family of say 7 (that's big) 

Personally I think its awful the way them children live (yes they are happy, but its all they know) I mean how do they know if one is 'behind' in education or is miserable. But no they couldn't be the Duggers are a well behaved, happy, smiley and perfect happy. They do not yell, get mad or stress :coffee:
They are like breeding Robots, she sees no age limits or hazards :dohh:

Rant over


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## Dragonfly

I dont think its right at all that many on the children, she cant possibly be attentive to all of them and not fair that their siblings have to bring up others when she decides to have another and has no time for the previous ones. Not to mention the risks should something bad happen to her theres 19 kids with no mum.


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## mayb_baby

Dragonfly said:


> I dont think its right at all that many on the children, she cant possibly be attentive to all of them and not fair that their siblings have to bring up others when she decides to have another and has no time for the previous ones. Not to mention the risks should something bad happen to her theres 19 kids with no mum.

I hate the thought of her dumping her toddlers on her older kids, they are a disgrace:growlmad:


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## Desi's_lost

mayb_baby said:


> almostXmagic said:
> 
> 
> she did. Josie was the first and only preemie so far. even her twins were born full term.
> 
> as for the harming the environment stuff, thats just crap. i dont even think i need to explain why.
> 
> the one on one thing? she home schools all of them. Jim Bob own his own business and makes his own hours so that he is home more than not. they are always making trips to the stores where they will take one or two children with them or working around the farm where they will have one or two of the kids help out and stuff. they may not get to spend one on one time with each child each day but atleast every other day they are spending significant time with their children. even the kids themselves have vouched for that. i would say they know each of their children just as well as my mom knew/knows me and my 3 siblings.
> 
> Umm I am sorry but I am not a big 'pro green person' but the Duggers are a huge impact on the environment I mean really, now that Mr Dugger has pimped his family onto a TV show they have money to travel. They take up 4times the amount of transport an average family does, they clearly use washer dryers more than you 'average family' so no that's a FACT not crap. You get my point I could go on but yeah that's just 'common sense'
> 
> I doubt you could have the 'quality one on one time' you could have with even a family of say 7 (that's big)
> 
> Personally I think its awful the way them children live (yes they are happy, but its all they know) I mean how do they know if one is 'behind' in education or is miserable. But no they couldn't be the Duggers are a well behaved, happy, smiley and perfect happy. They do not yell, get mad or stress :coffee:
> They are like breeding Robots, she sees no age limits or hazards :dohh:
> 
> Rant overClick to expand...

As was stated in my original post about the environmental effect, each child multiplies the mothers carbon footprint by 5% (a little over but lets go with 5) so times that by 20 and her carbon foot print has grown by 100% :wacko: where as a typical family of three will only have grown by 15% so there is no way to argue that that isnt different on a MASSIVE scale. Then factor in that if each one of those children goes on to decide that they would like even families of 10 each, thats 200 children instead of 60 (if they only had three), again a massive difference! 

By all means, in todays thinking and acceptable culture, it isnt my place to tell people how many children they are allowed to have but is 20 seriously neccesary? At 10 why couldn't they have started adopting? They certainly have the money and seeing there is the whole christian thing, my aunt comes from a family of 5 children, all adopted by a christian couple who CHOOSE to have no children of their own. so its not like being christian means you need to try and repopulate the earth. Times are a tad different than when Abraham walked the earth. 

And more than anything there is no way to ignore that she has again put herself in jeopardy. What happens if she dies this time around, or if the baby does? Are they going to promptly try again? :wacko:
If she's homeschooling those children what is she going to do if she has to spend 6 months, a year away again at the hospital?

Oh, and just because they look happy on tv, doesnt mean a damn thing. Look at Jon and Kate plus 8. What you see isnt the reality, its the cherry picked pieces strung together like a pasta necklace.


----------



## we can't wait

QuintinsMommy said:


> im the only one who LOVES this family. All the kids and parents work together to one happy big family.

Not at all. I said in my first post that I watch the Duggar's all the time. I watched their finale of the 'Around the World' special last night. :D



Desi's_lost said:


> Oh and correct me if im wrong, but arent you at a higher risk of eclampsyia if you've had it before? the baby had to be sectioned out at 25 weeks o.o

Not necessarily. I had preeclampsia, and they told me that it doesn't mean I will get it again. A lot of factors contribute to eclampsia. Michelle is at a greater risk of getting it again though, because she had a severe case and other risk factors (such as advanced maternal age).



QuintinsMommy said:


> the duggers handmake alot of food etc..(eliminating alot of etxra packaging) and pass down clothes from one child to the next ..use the same toys..etc :thumbup:

I was actually getting ready to say the same thing. The Duggars reduce their effects on the environment in a lot of ways. I'm not sure about Michelle, but I know that Josh and Anna have used cloth diapers for their two LO's. They buy their clothes from thrift stores, and then pass them down to one another. They don't use as much public transportation, because they are home-schooled. I may not agree that a 20th child is the best idea, (for health concerns) but I don't dislike the family. :shrug:


----------



## Desi's_lost

I dont really see what passing down clothes or buying from thrift stores has to do with the environment. Clothes are biodegradable in the first place. Even if thrown out, i'm pretty sure that they end up being burned/destroyed, not in landfills or anything. 
If anything practices like that are just dents in the economy as they could be spending but instead are choosing not to.
Besides that, eventually they will move out meaning there are 20 houses/apartments/living spaces required that creates excessive competition on an already taxed system. 
The effects are far more complicated than can even be discussed really.


----------



## bbyno1

20 kids?Jeez..
How do they have time to give them all the love and care they need?And im here worrying about how im gunna juggle my time between two! That's insane. Fair enough if you love kids and want alot but i think 20 steps over the mark a little?!
I havn't seen the programme to see how they live/what they are like as a family though.


----------



## Desi's_lost

I really dont know how anyone can seriously think they know what these peoples lives are like, just from watching a television show...its a reality show, not a documentary. And even documentaries are often very bias to what the creators want it to be.


----------



## we can't wait

So now the Duggar's are hurting the economy? :haha:

By passing down clothes, they are reducing what they waste. They have the children now regardless, so at least they're taking steps to decrase their wastefulness.


----------



## Desi's_lost

Thats like saying 'well I robbed the bank, but i'm giving it back pennies at a time..'


----------



## we can't wait

They already have the children... So now they are taking steps to reduce their waste. What else should they do at this point? Kill a few of them to make the environmentalists happy? 

Not likely. :lol:


----------



## mayb_baby

After 10 she should of got sterilized


----------



## Marzipan_girl

Haha exactly ^

Yeah so what she already had the kids. We all know that. We're just saying she SHOULDN'T have had them all....
Why not just adopt some instead and help make the world better rather than just breeeeeeding and farting all over the environment :dohh:


----------



## Desi's_lost

Btw, when you think about it, cloth diapers dont really help anything because they still have to wash them, using water and detergent and electricity. Its still using something thats in demand. 
I really cant imagine them having used them though, imagine having 3/4 children in cloth diapers at a time  holy laundry! Their washing machine must be going 24/7

But in this case its not just the envirmental effect. Its the psychological effect on the children, the chance that all of their children will do the same, naming all of their children using j's must have a bit of an impact too. they cant even consider their name special or unique to them.

And also the fact that shes still pregnant now, carelessly threatening her life, the unborn childs life and the entire family should she or the baby pass. Its not as though she wasnt warned by a doctor that it was a dangerous idea.

Its just all round bleh. for lack of a better adjective.


----------



## AirForceWife7

Meh. 

They can do whatever they want; raise their children how they want to .. what they do in their life is none of my business, just like what I do in mine is none of theirs. I've got plenty of other things to worry about :haha:


----------



## almostXmagic

Desi's_lost said:


> *so its not like being christian means you need to try and repopulate the earth. *

actually the Lord states in Genisis 9:7 "As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." :thumbup:



Desi's_lost said:


> What happens if she dies this time around, or if the baby does? Are they going to promptly try again? :wacko:

the baby was not planned :flower:.


----------



## almostXmagic

we can't wait said:


> So now the Duggar's are hurting the economy? :haha:
> 
> By passing down clothes, they are reducing what they waste. They have the children now regardless, so at least they're taking steps to decrase their wastefulness.

exactly! the Duggars are doing a lot to reduce how much they impact the environment. and as kelly said, shes already had the kids. nothing to argue about at this point.the kids are happy, healthy, and well cared for. thats all that matters to me.


----------



## purple_kiwi

Desi's_lost said:


> I dont really see what passing down clothes or buying from thrift stores has to do with the environment. Clothes are biodegradable in the first place. Even if thrown out, i'm pretty sure that they end up being burned/destroyed, not in landfills or anything.
> If anything practices like that are just dents in the economy as they could be spending but instead are choosing not to.
> Besides that, eventually they will move out meaning there are 20 houses/apartments/living spaces required that creates excessive competition on an already taxed system.
> The effects are far more complicated than can even be discussed really.

I'm pretty sure none of the children move out until married and then they own their own home, and its not like they are depending on any sort of government assistance. Even the one son living on his own with his wife owns a business how exactly is that making the economy worse?. Should everyone go into debt to support the economy, do you buy everything brand new? They are saving money to help give their children what they need to be happy, and teach them life lessons and that should be what matter. Personally I think 20 children is to many but in another sense I hardly see them as completely damaging everything they touch as you seem to think.
Also they donate to other funds and even help feed people in other countries they try raising their children to be HELPFUL members of society and do anything they can to help. TBH I would think it worse if they just had 20 kids that did nothing compared to 20 that try to help the world.


----------



## Chelsea.ann1

Idc what anyone has to say. Have you watched the show? Theres no way each one of those kids is thriving and happy. none of them have the sparkle, freedom, glow that children have. They're jipped a childhood, they're jipped personal relations.. The way there household comes off is just the same as a school classroom. All just a number with there own share of work. Oh except they get a tv show and tons of money for it. 

And to a poster above who said it wasn't planned.... It also wasn't prevented 

Bbbuuutttt who cares its there problem right? there's nothing we can do but live our lives with our gorgeous kiddos!!!


----------



## Dalila

i just watched an episode with super nanny teaching a family of 10 kids how to function. they had the 15 yr old son acting like a parent! and the hidden cameras caught the younger kids saying they will miss super nanny bc she understands them and things are better when she is there. so sad:nope:


----------



## annawrigley

SIEGAL said:


> annawrigley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SIEGAL said:
> 
> 
> I am not a teen but I saw this pop up on the right and I love this show and had to comment! I think they are weird to have 20 kids but I don't think its our place to judge. Very judgy here, the comments are harsh....except QuintinsMommy. The same way you may think 45 is too old and too dangerous and not enough attention some people may say the same about a 16 yr old having a kid, too young, unmarried, (insert other bad comment here about teenage mothers).
> No one likes being judged.
> 
> 16 is prime child bearing age, 45 is not. Marriage has nothing to do with it. Its a fact that the older you get, the higher your chance of having a child with a disability or genetic abnormality. There is little to no biological risk of having a child at 16. Just because society may look down upon teen pregnancy, it is way less risky FOR THE CHILD than giving birth at 45.Click to expand...
> 
> Actually this is no entirely true (mid 20's is the prime age) but this isn't my section anyway and I don't want to get on anyones nerves. I just saw Duggars and had to comment! I would never start a post to say, "unmarried teenager pregnant! negative thoughts?" Its just not nice. But evidently its totally OK to say people are too old, or if they had a complication in the past they shouldnt have children. Its just not nice. Alot of women over 40 and ones with past pregnancy complications would not be so nice. That is all I was trying to say.Click to expand...

I don't know where you got that from but i've studied child development and we were told the 'best' age biologically to have a child is 16-35. The thread wasn't about her age anyway, it was about her bringing a 20th child into the world. I feel bad for her kids.



newmommy23 said:


> To me, its not about environmental, religion what ever. I feel bad for the KIDS. I have friends with 6 siblings that legitimately hated having so many. They are straight up robbed of their childhood having to raise each other like that. I mean, I get if they were conceived "ntnp" but they weren't. They purposely have as many kids as they can. To me, that's just like....I don't know it seems ridiculous to me?
> 
> 
> The Duggars raise their children using a buddy system, wherein an older sibling is assigned to a younger sibling and assists in their primary care. According to Michelle, "they help them with their little phonics lessons and games during the day and help them practice their music lessons. They will play with them or help them pick out the color of their outfit that day and just all of those types of things."
> 
> And also, I don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but the amount of people donating food to this family could be helping starving and impoverished children in other countries. If only the tv networks would look at that, but people don't want to see that. Reality tv pisses me off equally for that reason, but seriously, these people breed. There is nothing else particularly charming about them. But that's just my opinion, and obviously people like them, or they wouldn't throw thousands of dollars and donations of food at them year round while they consciously and purposely continue to procreate.Click to expand...

People donate food to them? That makes me so angry.



almostXmagic said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> *so its not like being christian means you need to try and repopulate the earth. *
> 
> actually the Lord states in Genisis 9:7 "As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> What happens if she dies this time around, or if the baby does? Are they going to promptly try again? :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> the baby was not planned :flower:.Click to expand...

They weren't using contraception so yes it was planned. Everyone knows unprotected sex = baby. They knew full well it could happen (it had happened 19 times before :coffee:) so it was utterly irresponsible and blaming it on 'whatever happens happens' or 'leaving it to fate' is bullshit, they knew exactly what they were doing and that she could have got pregnant again, and hey presto she did.


----------



## AnnabelsMummy

i completely agree with anna.. 
my opinion is its just careless and stupid.. they knew what would happen if they used nothing...
i think she's addicted to having babies? lol..
i think it's horrid - knowing you could die or put the new baby at risk is so selfish.. imagine how it will effect the 19 other children.. (if my mum died giving birth it would deffinatly affect me.. and if she had a baby that died, it'd affect me?) - i can't help think they don't give their children a thought in all this?

personally, i try and have a nice cuddle with annie and make sure i play with her every day - even if it's just for a bit.. 
they can't do that.. 
and imagine being the older child.. 

if i said i palmed my child off on my mum all the time.. you'd think that was wrong (i don't btw).. so surely her palming all the younger ones off on the older ones is wrong.. just my opinion? surely its the same - maybe she doesn't do it to go clubbing or whatever - but imo the reasons just as selfish??

and random aside - with that many children where do they find the time to ermm.. have adult time?


----------



## Dragonfly

Annabel the older ones have the younger ones to look after thats how their life is so they have time to make more.


----------



## AnnabelsMummy

exactly - it makes my point.. 
they couldn't make more if they didn't palm their children on other people - even if it's the older children - i don't see how that's right?


----------



## QuintinsMommy

I only have 4 siblings and I babysat them. I think it made me more responsible


----------



## BrEeZeY

i think that there is a difference between babysittin and raising them


----------



## Bexxx

I find it hard enough to make 'time' for me and OH with one child.
How the hell they do it with 19 other kids is beyond me.


----------



## QuintinsMommy

Chelsea.ann1 said:


> Idc what anyone has to say. Have you watched the show? Theres no way each one of those kids is thriving and happy. none of them have the sparkle, freedom, glow that children have. They're jipped a childhood, they're jipped personal relations.. The way there household comes off is just the same as a school classroom. All just a number with there own share of work. Oh except they get a tv show and tons of money for it.
> 
> And to a poster above who said it wasn't planned.... It also wasn't prevented
> 
> Bbbuuutttt who cares its there problem right? there's nothing we can do but live our lives with our gorgeous kiddos!!!

i have? what do you mean? the kids make sill comments/run around.. etc


----------



## we can't wait

I agree with Rome. I watch the show every week ( well, not now, the season finale was last week) and the kids run around and play? Two weeks ago, their episode was of them running around in front of Stonehenge! Aria certainly won't be getting that opportunity anytime soon. :nope:

Regarding not using BC, it's a religious choice. A ton of people I know make the same choice. DH and I only use family planning for ours. Like I said, I may not agree with a 20th child, but I don't dislike their entire lifestyle. It's possible this baby was an "opps." Compared to other pregnancies, they've actually gone a while without a child. Josie is going to be 2 in couple weeks. That's a long time compared to the usual (for them). My best friend's mom & dad are catholic and don't use contraception. They have a 19yo, 17yo, and a 13yo. Obviously they knew they could get pregnant, they obviously had three other kids, but they still have an 'accident' baby. :shrug: it's weird that my daughter, and my best friend's little sister are the same age, though, lol.


----------



## we can't wait

Bexxx said:



> I find it hard enough to make 'time' for me and OH with one child.
> How the hell they do it with 19 other kids is beyond me.

:rofl:
This is true.


----------



## QuintinsMommy

we can't wait said:


> I agree with Rome. I watch the show every week ( well, not now, the season finale was last week) and the kids run around and play? Two weeks ago, their episode was of them running around in front of Stonehenge! Aria certainly won't be getting that opportunity anytime soon. :nope:
> 
> Regarding not using BC, it's a religious choice. A ton of people I know make the same choice. DH and I only use family planning for ours. Like I said, I may not agree with a 20th child, but I don't dislike their entire lifestyle. It's possible this baby was an "opps." Compared to other pregnancies, they've actually gone a while without a child. Josie is going to be 2 in couple weeks. That's a long time compared to the usual (for them). My best friend's mom & dad are catholic and don't use contraception. They have a 19yo, 17yo, and a 13yo. Obviously they knew they could get pregnant, they obviously had three other kids, but they still have an 'accident' baby. :shrug: it's weird that my daughter, and my best friend's little sister are the same age, though, lol.

melissa baby sister? I think is only 2 week apart from her son.


----------



## we can't wait

I've read that on here before. There were a couple of episodes of 16&P were the mom & daughter are pregnant at the same time.
I didn't mean it's weird because of the age difference between me and my friend's mom. I meant it's weird, because I'll say something about "my daughter this or that" and I automatically want to ask about her daughter, but have to remember it's her sister, not her child. If that makes sense?

Its like, my oldest niece is the same age as DH's younger brother. So, for some reason, i always picture BIL as older than he is, because in my mind my niece is still my little baby (she's 14, lol) I guess my mind gets all confused when the generations overlap. :dohh: :haha:


----------



## Desi's_lost

we can't wait said:


> I agree with Rome. I watch the show every week ( well, not now, the season finale was last week) and the kids run around and play? Two weeks ago, their episode was of them running around in front of Stonehenge! Aria certainly won't be getting that opportunity anytime soon. :nope:
> 
> *Regarding not using BC, it's a religious choice.* A ton of people I know make the same choice. DH and I only use family planning for ours. Like I said, I may not agree with a 20th child, but I don't dislike their entire lifestyle. It's possible this baby was an "opps." Compared to other pregnancies, they've actually gone a while without a child. Josie is going to be 2 in couple weeks. That's a long time compared to the usual (for them). My best friend's mom & dad are catholic and don't use contraception. They have a 19yo, 17yo, and a 13yo. Obviously they knew they could get pregnant, they obviously had three other kids, but they still have an 'accident' baby. :shrug: it's weird that my daughter, and my best friend's little sister are the same age, though, lol.

Wrong, someone on here said that the wife had used bc pills in the past and believes thats what caused her MC. If thats true than there is NO reason why they cant use condoms, abstain, or have a medical procedure.

TBH though, this isnt an issue of what their eating or how they are praying, etc something that is ONLY effecting them. It gets to the point where how is it any different than saying 'well my religion allows me to kill in the name of god, so thats my right.' hiding behind religion to make irresponsible choices is irresponsible.


----------



## Desi's_lost

almostXmagic said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> *so its not like being christian means you need to try and repopulate the earth. *
> 
> actually the Lord states in Genisis 9:7 "As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> What happens if she dies this time around, or if the baby does? Are they going to promptly try again? :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> the baby was not planned :flower:.Click to expand...

I'm nearly positive there is a bit where you are only allowed to have sex to create a child so if they werent trying, they shouldnt have been sexing. :thumbup:

Regaurdless, thats just ridiculous. Plain and simple. If my father dies should my mother become married to my uncle? There are soooooooooooo many outdated unacceptable things in the bible. So i'm sorry, quoting a line in a book written by man is not gonna win your brownie points with anyone sensible.


----------



## AriannasMama

20 children IS a lot but it's their religious beliefs and there isn't much you can say against that. All of the children are well taken care of, they earn enough money to raise their kids, all the kids are well adjusted, and like Rome said they do recycle loads so they aren't using up that much more than other families.

In the end, I am not too concerned about what the Duggars are doing, and who should be? It's their lives, let them live them.


----------



## Desi's_lost

purple_kiwi said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> I dont really see what passing down clothes or buying from thrift stores has to do with the environment. Clothes are biodegradable in the first place. Even if thrown out, i'm pretty sure that they end up being burned/destroyed, not in landfills or anything.
> If anything practices like that are just dents in the economy as they could be spending but instead are choosing not to.
> Besides that, eventually they will move out meaning there are 20 houses/apartments/living spaces required that creates excessive competition on an already taxed system.
> The effects are far more complicated than can even be discussed really.
> 
> I'm pretty sure none of the children move out until married and then they own their own home, and its not like they are depending on any sort of government assistance. Even the one son living on his own with his wife owns a business how exactly is that making the economy worse?. Should everyone go into debt to support the economy, do you buy everything brand new? They are saving money to help give their children what they need to be happy, and teach them life lessons and that should be what matter. Personally I think 20 children is to many but in another sense I hardly see them as completely damaging everything they touch as you seem to think.
> Also they donate to other funds and even help feed people in other countries they try raising their children to be HELPFUL members of society and do anything they can to help. TBH I would think it worse if they just had 20 kids that did nothing compared to 20 that try to help the world.Click to expand...

You're missing the point, tremendously. lemme try to show you the little things before the big things
20 more portions of food needed at each meal
20 more sets of clothes to be washed therefore they go through more soap, more everything creating more waste
20 more showers needed
20 more waste (pee poop) creating creatures
20 more cars that will one day be on the road
20 more jobs/people earning money. there is only so much in the country, so much in the world that can be obtained, even money is limited
20 more televisions in their respective homes
20 more phones
20 more pairs of shoes
20 more every single thing you see in your house

thennnnnn there is the fact that the world is generally over populated in the first place. to any one that has a sense of what happened in the past with things like lords, you understand the concept. 
they kept handing down land to their children and eventually there would be nothing left. so even though they had important blood, they still ended up dirt poor. Anyway, if you havent understood by this point, you dont want to and you arent.


----------



## Desi's_lost

AriannasMama said:


> 20 children IS a lot but it's their religious beliefs and there isn't much you can say against that. All of the children are well taken care of, they earn enough money to raise their kids, all the kids are well adjusted, and like Rome said they do recycle loads so they aren't using up that much more than other families.
> 
> In the end, I am not too concerned about what the Duggars are doing, and who should be? It's their lives, let them live them.

Yet again, no. they dont have a religious leg to stand on because she took bc in the past.

And no, how can you sit here and say you know a thing about those children unless you know them personally? people act different on camera and besides that you dont see the whole picture...you see what they want to show you.


----------



## we can't wait

Desi's_lost said:


> Wrong, someone on here said that the wife had used bc pills in the past and believes thats what caused her MC. If thats true than there is NO reason why they cant use condoms, abstain, or have a medical procedure.
> 
> TBH though, this isnt an issue of what their eating or how they are praying, etc something that is ONLY effecting them. It gets to the point where how is it any different than saying 'well my religion allows me to kill in the name of god, so thats my right.' hiding behind religion to make irresponsible choices is irresponsible.

Um, no, you're wrong. Do you even watch the show? If you did, you'd know it IS their religious choice. When Jim-Bob & Michelle were younger she did take birth control. She still fell pregnant,and miscarried the child. When they talked to their reverend/pastor, and decided that they would let it be in god's hands (as tons of others do). Shortyly after, they fell pregnant with twins (Jana & John-David, I think). They saw their conception of twins as God smiling on them. They don't use contraception because they feel God will bless them as he sees fit. So, YES, it is a religious reason.

Just because you don't follow a particular belief doesn't mean the other people are "hiding" behind it. That's pretty closed-minded.


----------



## AriannasMama

Like someone else said, I have more things to worry about then someone having 20 babies, its not worth my time.

Sure, it was a bit irresponsible for her to have another after her last having so many problems but whatever, you can't stop it now, and like another PP said she already has all the other kids its not like she can just kill a few off, and complaining about it isn't going to change a thing either.


----------



## we can't wait

Desi's_lost said:


> Regaurdless, thats just ridiculous. Plain and simple. If my father dies should my mother become married to my uncle? There are soooooooooooo many outdated unacceptable things in the bible. So i'm sorry, *quoting a line in a book written by man is not gonna win your brownie points with anyone sensible.*

Where the hell do you come off insinuating that those who are religious aren't sensible? What an ignorant comment to make!


----------



## AriannasMama

Also:

The Duggar family are Christian fundamentalists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not believe in any sort of birth control. 

So yes, it is a religious thing.

I'm also quite impressed at them having that many people in their family and being debt-free.


----------



## Desi's_lost

we can't wait said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> Regaurdless, thats just ridiculous. Plain and simple. If my father dies should my mother become married to my uncle? There are soooooooooooo many outdated unacceptable things in the bible. So i'm sorry, *quoting a line in a book written by man is not gonna win your brownie points with anyone sensible.*
> 
> Where the hell do you come off insinuating that those who are religious aren't sensible? What an ignorant comment to make!Click to expand...

Nope, thats not what I said. :thumbup: Unless of course you believe its okay for a women to belong to his brother after her husband dies.
Or that people back then used to like 300 years.
Or anything like that.


----------



## we can't wait

AriannasMama said:


> Also:
> 
> The Duggar family are Christian fundamentalists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not believe in any sort of birth control.
> 
> So yes, it is a religious thing.
> 
> I'm also quite impressed at them having that many people in their family and being debt-free.

Exactly. Josh and Anna even wrote that they would have all their children in God's timing into their wedding vows. 

And, yes, they do very well for themselves, IMO.


----------



## Desi's_lost

AriannasMama said:


> Also:
> 
> The Duggar family are Christian fundamentalists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not believe in any sort of birth control.
> 
> So yes, it is a religious thing.
> 
> I'm also quite impressed at them having that many people in their family and being debt-free.

Then I guess they shouldnt have used it in the past huh....on something this extreme, its really not fair to bounce back and forth.

I'm not sure whats impressive about it. if you own a huge company its not that hard.


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## we can't wait

Desi's_lost said:


> we can't wait said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> Regaurdless, thats just ridiculous. Plain and simple. If my father dies should my mother become married to my uncle? There are soooooooooooo many outdated unacceptable things in the bible. So i'm sorry, *quoting a line in a book written by man is not gonna win your brownie points with anyone sensible.*
> 
> Where the hell do you come off insinuating that those who are religious aren't sensible? What an ignorant comment to make!Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, thats now what I said. :thumbup: Unless of course you believe its okay for a women to belong to his brother after her husband dies.
> Or that people back then used to like 300 years.
> Or anything like that.Click to expand...

I'm assuming you meant that people lived* 300 years.
I'm not going to defend my religion to you, and honestly, it speaks of your character that you're going to attack an entire group of people on this open thread. I do have answers to those individual points you made, and if you so desire, you can resume this via a private message.


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## we can't wait

Desi's_lost said:


> AriannasMama said:
> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> The Duggar family are Christian fundamentalists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not believe in any sort of birth control.
> 
> So yes, it is a religious thing.
> 
> I'm also quite impressed at them having that many people in their family and being debt-free.
> 
> Then I guess they shouldnt have used it in the past huh....on something this extreme, its really not fair to bounce back and forth.
> 
> I'm not sure whats impressive about it. if you own a huge company its not that hard.Click to expand...

They don't bounce back and forth. Did you even read my post of the previous page? It explains why they live like this now.

And I don't see you owning a huge company. So it must not be that easy, otherwise you'd be doing it, right?


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## Desi's_lost

we can't wait said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we can't wait said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> Regaurdless, thats just ridiculous. Plain and simple. If my father dies should my mother become married to my uncle? There are soooooooooooo many outdated unacceptable things in the bible. So i'm sorry, *quoting a line in a book written by man is not gonna win your brownie points with anyone sensible.*
> 
> Where the hell do you come off insinuating that those who are religious aren't sensible? What an ignorant comment to make!Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, thats now what I said. :thumbup: Unless of course you believe its okay for a women to belong to his brother after her husband dies.
> Or that people back then used to like 300 years.
> Or anything like that.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm assuming you meant that people lived* 300 years.
> I'm not going to defend my religion to you, and honestly, it speaks of your character that you're going to attack an entire group of people on this open thread. I do have answers to those individual points you made, and if you so desire, you can resume this via a private message.Click to expand...

xD Alright, you want to declare i'm attacking a religion of people then you make point to criticize my spelling errors. Mkayyyyy lovely. No I dont care. I learned plenty enough in Bible as Lit for my liking. 
I never once asked you to defend you're religion, i dont give a fuck what peoples religions are until it starts to effect other people and whether you like it or not there are valid reasons why having 20 children and believing that is acceptable negatively effects other people.


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## Desi's_lost

we can't wait said:


> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AriannasMama said:
> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> The Duggar family are Christian fundamentalists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not believe in any sort of birth control.
> 
> So yes, it is a religious thing.
> 
> I'm also quite impressed at them having that many people in their family and being debt-free.
> 
> Then I guess they shouldnt have used it in the past huh....on something this extreme, its really not fair to bounce back and forth.
> 
> I'm not sure whats impressive about it. if you own a huge company its not that hard.Click to expand...
> 
> They don't bounce back and forth. Did you even read my post of the previous page? It explains why they live like this now.
> 
> And I don't see you owning a huge company. So it must not be that easy, otherwise you'd be doing it, right?Click to expand...

i didnt say it was easy to own a big company but * it is easy to raise a ridiculous number of children if you already have one*
which really begs the question...this is america we are talking about and business is cut throat. i bet when you did deep enough you find out he isnt nearly as nice a man as you think he is.


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## buttonnose82

lets not argue girls

a suggestion might be too read through your post's before hitting the reply button and remember that their are people of all different religions on the forum so please be respectful of that :)


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## AriannasMama

Its impressive because some people with no children have loads of debt, some "rich" CEOs of large companies have homes going into foreclosure because they can't pay their mortgage. A family of soon to be 22 with NO debt is pretty amazing, big company or not, debt free means they own all of their properties, no credit card payments, no car payments, just monthly utility bills.

Pretty impressive to me considering how much debt the rest of this nation is in.


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## AriannasMama

double post, sorry.


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## syntaxerror

1. Definitely impressed that they're able to take care of all the kids financially.
2. Have moved from a position of "if they can afford them, whatever" to "except that there is a finite carrying capacity on the planet and people raising massive families DOES affect everyone, especially a couple generations from now when they have 400 grandkids and 8000 great-grandkids (assuming 20 kids apiece.) It would be appropriate to consider reproductive limits to address the tragedy of the commons angle of this."
3. I don't know how logical it is to use religious beliefs to circumvent the issue of whether it's appropriate to have (x number of children.) To me, that's akin to adopting every homeless cat that comes by your home out of devotion to Bast. Or, I guess, to adopting a bunch of cats and refusing to spay them because Bast was a goddess of childbirth. I think religion is something that may explain the behavior of individuals or groups but can't necessarily justify it. 
4. Hi, everyone.


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## 17thy

AriannasMama said:


> Also:
> 
> The Duggar family are Christian fundamentalists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not believe in any sort of birth control.

If they believed in a literal interpretation of the bible every girl there would be away from the family during their period. That would be ridiculous though, as is having 20 babies just so you can say you took the bible seriously. -_- I am a Christian but not a fan of extremists in any manner.


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## Desi's_lost

I dont think there are truly many people that follow an actual literal interpretation of the bible. It's just a convenient way to justify things they know arent reasonable. 
Besides, there are so many translations it would be pretty difficult.

I'm not insulting peoples faith, or god or what not. When it comes to your beliefs, they belong to you, as long as it isnt hurting others. But it just isnt realistic for people to actually try and follow word for word. So many things in there arent even legal.


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## Hotbump

I havent read everyone's comments but I will say this.....she shouldnt be having 20 kids and I'm not saying this because of her age. First of all I have two kids, and sometimes I wonder if I paying attention to both of them equally now imagine 20 kids?! I sometimes call my boys by the wrong name and I feel bad, this usually happens when I'm tired and cant even get their names right now imagine 20? I come from a family of 12 and for those who have read my journal can see my childhood was not a happy one. I always felt alone, rushed to grow-up helping my mom take care of my neices and nephews after school while my sisters worked. As for religion that has nothing to do with it, so my partner and I use protection does that mean I'm not raising my children in the name of the lord? There is no way you can give attention to 20 children, I kind of know that because I was the youngest of 12 children! The only difference is that I was a suprise baby :lol: They told my mom that she had a higher risk of dying and so did I, she was 47 at the time I think. It would be a whole different story if she was 45 and having her 4th child but 20th that is to many!!! If she is worried about having another mc after what happen while taking the pill there is such thing as a condom....sorry but I kind of know what they are going thru (the children) they might look all happy on tv but we really dont know how they feel when inside and who they really are off camera.


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## AriannasMama

I just found that insert online so I don't know to what extent do they follow the literal interpretation of the Bible.

But, honestly, its their life, let them live it, no point in talking shit about someone you don't even know, unless its directly harming you and your family why take this much time out of your life to be bothered by it.

Do you think and worry about the Duggars taking up resources on a daily basis? I can bet not, so move on, let them do what they do, and you do what you do.


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## 17thy

Sorry for having an opinion on something, God forbid! Having a discussion about someone who is putting themselves and their child at risk for the second time in a row (her and her baby could have easily died last time, and they have been told its extremely risky to become pregnant again) isn't talking shit, it's discussing the truth of the matter. No need to sugar coat it. No, no one is sitting around thinking about the Duggars 24/7, but when the story comes up of course people have opinions on it. And if you REALLY don't want to see peoples honest opinions, then you don't have to read the thread! But don't come in here scolding people for having an opinion. Seriously. No one is telling you you're wrong, or talking about you or your family so why does it bother you so bad? You do your thing, we'll do ours.


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## Desi's_lost

Just like was said about mariah yeater, this family has choose to put themselves in the lime light. They choose to allow people to form opinions on them, good or bad.


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## mayb_baby

That family are like creepy robots Smiley perfect family always happy and all beginning with J lol weirdos


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## almostXmagic

Chelsea.ann1 said:


> Idc what anyone has to say. Have you watched the show? Theres no way each one of those kids is thriving and happy. none of them have the sparkle, freedom, glow that children have. They're jipped a childhood, they're jipped personal relations.. The way there household comes off is just the same as a school classroom. All just a number with there own share of work. Oh except they get a tv show and tons of money for it.

yes im a regular viewer of the show. every week. they are all thriving and on the contrary every single one of those kids has a sparkle about them. you can see it in their eyes and their laughter and smiles. not to mention i happen to think they have the very best kind of childhood. those kids are always playin around the house, swinging on those huge swings they have, their dad built them like a 50 foot long slip n slide down the backyard hill one summer that they were always on, they have all kinds of animals around the farm they play with. i mean these kids have imaginations that our world doesnt have any longer and i chalk that up to the fact that they dont watch tv or play on the internet or any of that technology that kids these days have. theyre being raised the way i was raised back when video games hardly even existed. and its the best. :thumbup:



Chelsea.ann1 said:


> And to a poster above who said it wasn't planned.... It also wasn't prevented

neither were over half of the pregnancy's on this forum. doesnt mean they were planned though hun. :flower:


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## almostXmagic

we can't wait said:


> I agree with Rome. I watch the show every week ( well, not now, the season finale was last week) and the kids run around and play? Two weeks ago, their episode was of them running around in front of Stonehenge! Aria certainly won't be getting that opportunity anytime soon. :nope:
> 
> Regarding not using BC, it's a religious choice. A ton of people I know make the same choice. DH and I only use family planning for ours. Like I said, I may not agree with a 20th child, but I don't dislike their entire lifestyle. It's possible this baby was an "opps." Compared to other pregnancies, they've actually gone a while without a child. Josie is going to be 2 in couple weeks. That's a long time compared to the usual (for them). My best friend's mom & dad are catholic and don't use contraception. They have a 19yo, 17yo, and a 13yo. Obviously they knew they could get pregnant, they obviously had three other kids, but they still have an 'accident' baby. :shrug: it's weird that my daughter, and my best friend's little sister are the same age, though, lol.

i could so hug you and Rome both right now! i am so glad there a people out there who support them other than me :haha:


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## Chelsea.ann1

Yes, but I wonder if all that'd be possible if they weren't sponsored by a tv show.


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## Desi's_lost

I'm willing to bet a large deal of the unplanned pregnancies on this forum were not to mothers who were warned NOT to have any more children.

I watched this program about Ferris Buellers Day Off and it turns out the original cut of the movie was completely different from the end product. So much so that the actors didnt even think it was really the same movie. "How is this relavent?" I'm sure many are wondering, because film editors pick and choose what we the viewer get to see. Just because they look happy on tv doesnt mean that half the kids arent crying in the corner half the day or that none of them hate how they were brought up. You can not form accurate opinions of peoples personalities or happiness by watching a reality show.


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## almostXmagic

Desi's_lost said:


> almostXmagic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> *so its not like being christian means you need to try and repopulate the earth. *
> 
> actually the Lord states in Genisis 9:7 "As for you, be fruitful and multiply; Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it." :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Desi's_lost said:
> 
> 
> What happens if she dies this time around, or if the baby does? Are they going to promptly try again? :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> the baby was not planned :flower:.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm nearly positive there is a bit where you are only allowed to have sex to create a child so if they werent trying, they shouldnt have been sexing. :thumbup:
> 
> Regaurdless, thats just ridiculous. Plain and simple. If my father dies should my mother become married to my uncle? There are soooooooooooo many outdated unacceptable things in the bible. So i'm sorry, quoting a line in a book written by man is not gonna win your brownie points with anyone sensible.Click to expand...

the only time they were to abstain from sex was during their time of the month and if they were unmarried. the bible actually states that sex is good and should be enjoyable (in the context of marriage that is) but that is besides the point. i was simply stating that it does say that it is our responsibility to populate the earth abundantly.

hun im not trying to win brownie points. that should have been clear when i defended the family while all but two other women flagged them.im sorry you dont consider my religion to be of any importance but just because i am a Christian does not mean i am not also sensible. i too think that they could have used more birth control BUT so long as the kids are well taken care of and they can afford them then its not my place to pass any judgment. so i dont.


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## Desi's_lost

:wacko: Lemme try this again.

I have nothing against any one of any religion unless they are doing ridiculous things like trying to follow any relgious text word for word. Any way you'd like to slice it, that isnt sensible. Specially when you consider that it's been translated multiple times and in different ways depending on the publisher. 

If you still think i'm prejudiced to all christians, well, thats clearly just what you'd like to think and have fun with that.


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## we can't wait

Desi's_lost said:


> Just like was said about mariah yeater, this family has choose to put themselves in the lime light. They choose to allow people to form opinions on them, good or bad.

Yeah... but you got pissed off when we were bashing Mariah Yeater, because we "don't know her, so we shouldn't judge." and now you're saying we shouldn't like the Duggars, because we only see what they want us to? That doesn't really make sense. :coffee:


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## 10.11.12

Personally I think it's irresponsible at her age to have another child. What if something happens to her during childbirth? that leaves 20 children without a mother :nope:


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## Desi's_lost

What I said was that she didnt choose to be in the public eye for the fun of it, she did it because it was the only way to be acknowledged.
Bit of a different situation.


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## we can't wait

You brought it up, not me. ;)


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## AriannasMama

Either way, none of us are in the right to judge her. You can have an opinion, sure, but there's no need to be rude/harsh about it.

Have you never heard the saying "Only God Can Judge Me". 

I have nothing wrong with anyone having an opinion, but some people with strong opinions tend to shove theirs down others throats, no matter how you point it out or say it you probably aren't going to be changing anyone else's opinion. If she wants to have 20 kids, let her, like I said it isn't directly harming you or your family and I doubt you lose sleep over it.


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## almostXmagic

Desi's_lost said:


> :wacko: Lemme try this again.
> 
> I have nothing against any one of any religion *unless they are doing ridiculous things like trying to follow any relgious text word for word. Any way you'd like to slice it, that isnt sensible*. Specially when you consider that it's been translated multiple times and in different ways depending on the publisher.
> 
> If you still think i'm prejudiced to all christians, well, thats clearly just what you'd like to think and have fun with that.


never said it wasnt. i personally dont think the bible is made to be taken word for word. that doesnt mean that some people dont. however that does not excuse you for the comments you made. but all that said, im done with this thread. iv said my peace and im going to leave before it has to be locked. :thumbup:


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## Desi's_lost

Well enough, I still dont feel i've said anything wrong. :thumbup:

Cari, it's already been proven that people choosing to have 20 children are effecting everyone else.


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## AriannasMama

I don't personally know anyone who has been affected by the Duggars choices, but alrighty.


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## Desi's_lost

I'm not going to relist everything said, but look back through the thread to see the various ways deciding to have 20 children effects the rest of the world if you'd like to see. 

An overview would be to say that Mrs. Duggars carbon legacy is about 175% higher than that of an woman with a family of three children. Yes, that really does effect each and every one of us.


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## AriannasMama

Damn those Duggars! Damn them and their 19 children using up all the resources.

:rofl:

I'm done with this now


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## Chelsea.ann1

Let's all just agree to disagree great points have been made on both ends and what we all think makes absolutely no difference. For the sake of the forum, give it up! Let's all be friends helping friends again! My opinions haven't budged as I'm sure few else's have. Most of us don't know each other close and personally enough to take anything said to heart and to even seriously consider it. 

Things happen for a reason after all and though I DO NOT support having 20! Children. I refuse to believe any living creature let alone a child could be a mistake. 

We also dont know the whole story. We know what the media wants us to know... Which has proven time and time again to be a reasonably unreliable source.


This argument is just for the sake of arguing... Who are te duggers to us anyways?


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## AirForceWife7

Chelsea.ann1 said:


> Let's all just agree to disagree great points have been made on both ends and what we all think makes absolutely no difference. For the sake of the forum, give it up! Let's all be friends helping friends again! My opinions haven't budged as I'm sure few else's have. Most of us don't know each other close and personally enough to take anything said to heart and to even seriously consider it.
> 
> Things happen for a reason after all and though I DO NOT support having 20! Children. I refuse to believe any living creature let alone a child could be a mistake.
> 
> We also dont know the whole story. We know what the media wants us to know... Which has proven time and time again to be a reasonably unreliable source.
> 
> 
> This argument is just for the sake of arguing... Who are te duggers to us anyways?

Amen, sisterrrr :thumbup:


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## Natasha2605

Desi's_lost said:


> I'm not going to relist everything said, but look back through the thread to see the various ways deciding to have 20 children effects the rest of the world if you'd like to see.
> 
> An overview would be to say that Mrs. Duggars carbon legacy is about 175% higher than that of an woman with a family of three children. Yes, that really does effect each and every one of us.

Yeah but then that view depends on how high you hold the enviroment in your list of priorities as to how much damage they are doing. I'm sure there are people out there doing MUCH MUCH worse things to the enviroment than sprouting out kids.

And again, I don't even agree with them having this many kids. I just don't agree with using the enviroment as a supporting argument.


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## we can't wait

AriannasMama said:


> I don't personally know anyone who has been affected by the Duggars choices, but alrighty.

I think what Cari means is that the Duggars aren't effecting any of us directly, so why do we care?

Saying all the scenarios of their resource usage doesn't directly effect us, because it hasn't happened yet. Effecying others through the environment is secondary, not directly. So unless they knock on your door are take the food and clothes on your back (which they'd never do :)) it's not a direct problem, iykwim?

& I can't remember who posted ^ there a little ways... but I'm not particularly seeing how this is a nasty convo? There was a bit in the middle, but it was resolved, and let go. Desi and I have had much more heated conversations than this, and i can assure you, I don't hold any hard feelings against her. It's kind of how Desi and I bond. :rofl:
:kiss:


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## Desi's_lost

Ay, we fight like sisters, right Kelly? xD

I guess i'mma weirdo, but I love debating and the point of debating isnt neccesarily to change the other persons opinion but to present a point of view and for other people to elaborate and for everyone all round to learn bits they may not have before. So yeah, even if it gets heated, it gets left in the thread. No sense in being offended over deference's in opinion. 

I can feel the eye rolls already but that additude is what has landed us with holes in the ozone and polution in our waters. Just because you cant see the effects this very second doesnt mean they sound be ignored because they are our responsibility. Its kind of like avoiding cleaning your room because you arent in there anyway, no one knows its there but you...but it is there. We as a world have a responsibility to hand a world over to our children that isnt going to collapse. Point blank just because you feel like ignoring it, doesnt mean you should.

Its not just the environment either, thats just one of the many arguments why there is a problem with the mindset that having your own soccer team worth of children is acceptable. Sure we cant change whats already happened but we certainly shouldnt be glorifying them on television. Unfortunately most of the population is stupid, the last thing we need presented to them is 'hey, look how cool these people are with their bus load of kids' 

I wonder what would happen if they were all evaluated by a credible psychologist, think B.D Wong from Law and Order.


----------

