# Updated with pics!! Photos needed cloth bum leaking still!!!!!



## Zfbaby

Anyone know where I can find detailed pictures of good and bad fitting nappies? 
I am constantly getting leaks around the legs. I have eliminated a build up causing leaks by strip washing, I have added bamboo boosters to my nappies for extra absorbency, I've gone up and down in the rise and I use a few different brands (bg v4, fuzzibunz elite, bambino mio solo,tots bots, little lambs and mostly recently bg elementals and softbums omni!) and I'm still getting leaks. I thought my new elementals seemed really good so I ordered more and then today leaks!!! 
I just dont get what I'm doing wrong other than it has to be me fitting them all poorly. I change him regularly anyway but Before I get a chance to do it they've leaked. I poke all my linings in like a crazy woman and make sure i pinch nappy arpun knicker line to atop chunky legs getting trapped too :( 
I refuse to give in and use disposables full time but instead of being at a point where I can knock nighttime disposables on the head I'm starting to use them in the day for fear of leaks. I used a little lambs osfa as an experiment for night time with a bamboo insert and a hemp little weeds in it and that leaked (no sure at what point but when I went in for night feed roughly 6hrs after fitting nappy it was soaked and so was lo and his bed :( ) 
Am i being stupid and missing something obvious should I have put a microfiber insert in as well to speed up absorbency? Is there a cheats way of working out if rise is wrong? 
I'm getting so pi**ed off with getting it wrong all the time :(


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## Rachel_C

My advice is to stop using cloth at night until you have daytimes sorted and working properly. Night time leaks are the most stressful with bedding changes and, honestly, if you haven't got days sussed I don't think you stand much chance at night, so make it easy for yourself and just work on the days for now :)

Have you looked in the photos thread stickied at the top of NP? There are loads of nappy shots in there but I don't think you will find photos specifically of good and bad fit really, because it varies so much by brand and by baby. Many people advise that the nappy should sit in the knicker line to prevent leaks and rubbing but on MY baby, they work better further down the leg. On my first LO, I always left the nappy loose around the waist and it was fine but with the same nappies I need them to fit snugly around the waist for my youngest. It's trial and error for your baby. As well as the photos thread, I think the best you will find is the promotional shots of each nappy brand you have - that will give you some indication as to how high the manufacturer expects the rise to be, where the leg elastic should sit etc.

I think a better approach would be to take photos of your baby in the nappies you're using and people can advise from there.


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## doggylover

Can I ask how old your LO is? It sounds to me like you are using all BTP at the minute and while, in theory, they should work from birth to potty, if your LO is still tiny then maybe they just aren't fitting well enough. Do you use any sized nappies?


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## Zfbaby

doggylover said:


> Can I ask how old your LO is? It sounds to me like you are using all BTP at the minute and while, in theory, they should work from birth to potty, if your LO is still tiny then maybe they just aren't fitting well enough. Do you use any sized nappies?

He's 17wks and is 17lbs. We don't have any sized nappies but I think maybe I might get one and try it.

I've been doing some experiments today.
I noticed when using an elemental that even with the rise on the smallest setting the legs seems a little loose. He was in it from 9-11 (when he did a poop). The poop was dangerously close to the edges and would probably have gone flying out if he had wriggled. I also had dampness on the edge of his vest (leaking or wicking??) the back of the insert wasn't saturated.
He was then in another elemental from 11-2 (during nap) and again I had a wet vest but when I changed him the back of the insert wasn't wet at all. The insert had become quite bunched up in the crotch though so I think this had caused the leak. And then he was in a bg 4.0 on the smallest rise with the insert on the medium setting with fold at front 
( normally I have it on the longest setting and fold at back). I had a leak but as I was testing it out it was a while before the wetness came through and the insert was saturated. 
I read online that if the insert is not set to the right setting it can cause leaks. I also did not pinch bg in to knicker line. I'm going to continue my experiments tomorrow with my soft bums and rumparooz. 
How often do you change lo? 
Today I've just tried to see how long I get out of different brands and settings to work out what is going on. 
Any tips on stopping wicking? Lou is 4 mnths but I've put him in 6-9 vest to stop it being tight on bum but I'm still getting the wet legs even with all linning tucked in and the new elemental which has the bound seams. 
I have taken photos so I will post them shortly.


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## Rachel_C

It's worth trying some sized nappies then; if the legs are loose you will get leaks unless you're very lucky! One thing you can try is making sure that the nappy is pulled up quite high even though it's on the lowest rise setting - give it a good yank up high and that might help with the leg sizing a bit.

If I'm having leaks, I aim to change nappies every 1.5-2 hours really... or just change before you'd normally get a leak so if they leak at 2 hours, change at 1.5 until you figure it out. 

Wicking is sometimes hard to distinguish from leaking, but if you are having leaks I'd say wicking is probably par for the course too. Sort the leaks and hopefully the wicking will stop. Otherwise, make sure everything's tucked in where it should be, vests aren't too tight etc but you're already doing that :)


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## noon_child

I had a girl so I'm not sure, but do boys saturate the front of nappies much quicker? Does he need an extra layer at the front end if the back of the inserts aren't wet?


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## Zfbaby

noon_child said:


> I had a girl so I'm not sure, but do boys saturate the front of nappies much quicker? Does he need an extra layer at the front end if the back of the inserts aren't wet?

I think that is a major thing for us. I've turned the insert around and that has helped. I originally had the fold at the back because it made the front so bulky u couldn't get a good fit in the waist.


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## Rachel_C

If the insert is set to the same size as the rise, you should find you can pull the insert down a bit at the front, just so you have a centimetre or two where there isn't much thickness right at the top where the snaps/velcro fasten. That'll help you get a good fit around the waist but still mean you can have double thickness at the front. If you have the insert too long, it will distort the front of the nappy meaning you're more likely to get leaks. If you really don't like the bulk at the front, you could try using a more absorbent booster in there too - keep the folded over bit of the microfibre insert at the back but put a slim bamboo insert towards the front, doubled over if necessary. Concentrate it in the bit that gets wettest.


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## noon_child

We also used microfibre and I got a lot of advice about how compression stops it from fully absorbing so half the insert is sopping but the other half is bone dry. I found I was creating a kind of tight crease because I was trying to get the leg holes too tight (convinced this was a cause of the leaks) and it created a barrier meaning my inserts only absorbed half what they were meant to. As soon as I loosened the legs a bit, pulled the waist higher and tightened that, my leaks disappeared.


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## Zfbaby

Thanks Ladies I will give your words some thought whilst I fit some tomorrow. 
Good idea about the booster I will try that. I'm guessing as they are so thin I won't need to change the rise. I have some regular ll boosters and some triple thickness ones too. 
I wonder if using a bg newborn mf insert on top of a Little weeds hemp insert would be enough absorbency but leave the nappy trimmer so I can get a better fit. I'm not sure why its hard to fit around his thighs, they are so unbelievably chunky. 
Sometimes it feels so complicated. I wish there was a nappy dr near me that could come and look at his nappies and diagnose our problems. Wish that even existed. 
No leaks today though so that's good. We used a mix of bgs and fuzzibunz. Fuzzibunz seemed a little loose at the top of the legs again so I think I could do with tightening the elastic although that being said the nappy already seems a little short on him and I need to wriggle it down lower than his other nappies to have enough to go up the front.


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## doggylover

Sounds like you are using a lot of bumgenius, and I think their sizing is a bit funky. My girl is almost 16lbs and still uses the absolute smallest setting on all the types of bG. On the flips that means the legs do gape slightly, but luckily no leaks yet (absolute luck!!) I don't know how they would fit an 8lb baby.


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## Zfbaby

The majority of my stash is bg. Mostly pockets but I've just added a few elementals. Bg was the first brand we got so I guess I have a soft spot. 
I also have a couple of rumparooz but they seem to leak a lot. I'm hoping now that I've prepped my new hemp inserts for them I can fix the leaks.


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## Rachel_C

The older FuzziBunz Elites are pretty low rise so you will find they sit lower than BGs. It really is just trial and error though. With BG/Flips, we actually moved up the rise settings earlier than their diagrams suggest. LO has chunky legs but a slim waist so we found sitting them around her natural waist rather than her hips (think nipple warmers!) helped get a better fit - the extra height meant bigger legs but tighter poppers around the waist mean obviously meant smaller waist so that could be an option for you if LO is built like that. Just make sure you yank the nappy up really high when increasing the rise, you don't want a poofy/saggy bum. Keep playing around and post some photos :)


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## patooti

Is your lo a boy? We have leg leaks unless wee willy if absolutely front and centre iykwim. 

Also with our fuzzibunz and other various pockets we actually have had fewer leaks using them like covers meaning I don't stuff the pocket but put the insert in on top and then I stick an extra bamboo booster folded in half in the front to catch and hold the pee. Done that way no more leaks unless I forget to check the direction of mr pee pee. ;)


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## Zfbaby

patooti said:


> Is your lo a boy? We have leg leaks unless wee willy if absolutely front and centre iykwim.
> 
> Also with our fuzzibunz and other various pockets we actually have had fewer leaks using them like covers meaning I don't stuff the pocket but put the insert in on top and then I stick an extra bamboo booster folded in half in the front to catch and hold the pee. Done that way no more leaks unless I forget to check the direction of mr pee pee. ;)

That's interesting, I've been wondering if I could do that. Do you add a stay dry liner on top? 
I guess it's possible that lo might hve slimmed a tiny but during this growth spurt, our elementals are definetly loose although again no leaks today. 
I'm making a list of things in going to order as soon as I can. I'f like to try out some two part systems as I know these are the most reliable for avoiding leaks and getting a good fit. I'll also buy some sized nappies too. 
Flips are on my list as well as some little lambs bamboo fitted and I'm thinking of trying prefolds and a wrap. Any reccomendations? I think I've been quite closed minded so far, only going with pocket style nappies. 
I've taken some pictures on dhs phone, just waiting or him to get around to uploading them for me.


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## doggylover

I like the econobum inserts inside a flip wrap personally, and also tots bots bamboozles with their own wraps (I find their wraps one of the best as they seem to be a generous size to cover the whole nappy IMO)


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## princessellie

With nappies that I know leak, I always add a velcro motherease wrap over the top, making sure it is snug around waist and legs. I don't have a problem then x


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## Zfbaby

That's great, thanks I've been looking at a motherese riki wrap actually and I've put a tots bots on my list to try. I'm not so keen on their easyfit (constant leaks) but I've heard good things about their two parts nappies.


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## Rachel_C

We never got along with pockets with my first LO either. It was weird, even BG pockets didn't really work even though other BG/Flip nappies were great!

LL have a good sale at the moment so I'd get some of them now while the offer is there.

Don't let the lack of absorbency in the Easyfit put you off. It's a pretty lightweight nappy but the Stretches are great.


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## Zfbaby

Do the ll nappies have a stay dry linning? I don't know why but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the whole nappy soaking up pee and it sitting all around him ( thats how it works right?) rather than just in the crotch like pockets.


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## doggylover

They come with a liner. Technically the whole nappy is capable of absorbing so baby could feel wet all round, but if you change often it shouldn't be much of an issue


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## Rachel_C

Yes the liner in LLs is cotton fleece I think, so it is a kind of stay dry but not as stay dry as normal polyester fleece and it's a bit thicker/bulkier than normal fleece too, so just switch it for a poly fleece liner if you're concerned.

Fitteds without a full lining of stay dry fabric do have the potential to feel wet all around (as liners usually just cover the 'wet zone'). However, if the nappy is getting so wet that LO is feeling properly wet all around, you've left the nappy on far too long so you just need to change more often. That's what put me off LLs when I tried them on my first born as a newborn - I didn't like that she got wet up to her waist and around the sides where there was no liner, but looking back I just should have changed her sooner! The big advantage to fitteds over pockets is that they have the absorbent fabric at the sides to mop up excess pee, but you should only be letting that get mildly damp (so that LO wouldn't feel it as it would be spread through all the nappy layers). It still means the nappy can hold more but shouldn't affect LO's comfort, in fact it should increase comfort as there will be less pee in the wet zone.


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## Zfbaby

Just a quick question. I used a rumparooz with a hemp insert and within 30min-1hr the nappy had leaked and lo was soaked. I notice that the legs had leaked because the outer fabric was wet and had huge dark patches. I don't remember any of my other nappies showing dark patches when they've leaked. Does this mean there is a problem with the tpu? I'm worried my nappy is damaged. They were purchased new and have recently been strip washed. I have only washed the insert 3 times so far but online it said that was ok to start with.


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## minties

I've never ever had a leak with prefolds and fitted covers, of pee or poo. I love them! The only time I've seen a wet bottom with them is when the prefold got so soaking wet that the pee actually soaked through the cover overnight.


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## Rachel_C

No that doesn't mean there's a problem with the TPU. If you get a big leak, the wee will go up the outside of the nappy too (like wicking). If the outer is polyester (which I think Rumparooz are) it is less likely to happen than with a cotton outer, but it can still happen when the fit is bad.

I really urge you to post some photos of how the nappies fit as it seems you have having some big problems that might be very easy to sort but it's very difficult to advise when we can't see and all the standard tips have already been given :)

IIRC, Rumparooz have an extra set of rise snaps compared to many others so you might find yourself having to use a lower rise setting on them as the spacing is different so it's worth readjusting. Although your inserts won't be fully absorbent yet, they should be absorbent enough to last a couple of hours. Their inserts are really good. So a fit issue I think.


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## Zfbaby




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## Zfbaby

just a couple of photos. these are of our fuzzibunz


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## Zfbaby

and just a couple of our rumparooz


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## Zfbaby

Looking at the pics it clearly seems that the fb are too loose but any tighter and the marks are horrendous and he cries :shrug: plus I've already got them set smaller than they suggest for his size


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## Rachel_C

The FuzziBunz isn't a good fit in your photos, I would expect leaks with them. It looks to me like you have it far too low at the front - it should be the same height all the way around the waist so you need to lower the back. As long as it covers his bum crack at the back, it should be high enough there! That's why you're getting the poor fit at the front of the legs because the bit that's supposed to be up the front of the thighs is lower down. Being higher at the front should help it sit flat across the front (rather than dipping down and forward in the middle) which will even out the tension all around the waist, hopefully stopping it digging in at the back. 

I can't quite tell with the Rumparooz but if they are fully unsnapped, they should be really high rise - way above his tummy button unless he's the size of a 2-3 year old. Are they high enough?


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## Zfbaby

With the rumparooz they have one set of snaps left which is what they suggested for his weight (17lb4oz) and they do cover his belly button. About 5 mins after fitting this one he dirtied his nappy and the mess was all up his front around his belly button. But I have the same issue with most of his nappies that the folded insert is so bulky it's hard to get it to fit at the waist without l it sitting proud from his tummy or digging in and stopping him being able to sit comfortably. In fact sometimes I wonder if that is what causes his reflux to be worse. 

With the fb I line the back edge of the nappy up with his belly button and then I end up having to tug the front of the nappy to get it to line up with the back so maybe I just need to reevaluate where it sits at the back. I presume by the bit that's supposed to be up by his thighs is the curved edge by the top row of snaps. I'll try and use that as a guide and get that to line up with the top of his leg. 
When using snaps do you consider both top rows as the waist adjustment or the top row as waist and the bottom as leg? That's how I've been using them, is that wrong? 
I might try resetting the elasticated to how they suggest they should be and then use them sitting lower and see how that goes. Maybe I can add more pics for you to look at?


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## Zfbaby

Just seen how many typos there are! Sorry hope that makes sense. Trying to juggle baby and phone :)


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## Rachel_C

Ahh yes I can just about see the snapped rise on the Rumparooz now I look again! I don't think the folded bit of the insert should be causing a problem - just fasten it tight enough around the waist that there is a good area in contact with his skin. You should be able to get away with a bit of the inner showing at the waist if needs be, but to help I would make sure that the non-folded end of the insert is as high up in the pocket as it can go, hopefully giving you a bit more space at the folded end. Or thinking about it, you have the nappy on the next to largest setting so you might be able to have the insert totally unsnapped anyway. I've just tried it in one I have handy and it looks like it will fit okay although I haven't tested it on a baby. If you're using the microfibre inserts, you could also try using just the bigger insert, perhaps with a thinner bamboo bamboo booster too, as I find the microfibre inserts pretty bulky. Don't be afraid to squish them at the waist though! 

Sounds like you definitely have the FuzziBunz too high at the back, it needs to be level all the way round. I've just put one on my 25 month old who weighs maybe 25/26lbs and it's about an inch/inch and a half below her tummy button and the same height all round (this still gives a good inch/inch and a half coverage above her bum crack!). I often find I have to tug up the front of nappies as even after 4 years of doing it I'm still rubbish at judging where to put baby on it when it's laid flat. The important thing though is to make sure that YOU pull it far up enough at the front and don't use the snaps/velcro to pull it - it needs to stay there on its own before you fasten it, or the nappy will be pulled down. When I put the FuzziBunz on my LO, the lower row of snaps was level with the lowest part of her hip bone (the bit on the front rather than at the side, if you know which bit I mean!) so I would imagine it would be a little higher up on your LO, unless he's really tall for his weight. With them I usually use the bottom row of snaps as adjustment for the legs but it's all interconnected so you may need to adjust the elastic too.


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## Rachel_C

ETA, if LO has a chunky tummy and you think nappies may be uncomfortable, I'd try either having the nappies quite low (think hips rather than waist) or really high so they go over the pudgiest bit of tummy. My oldest needed nappies above her chub, my youngest needs them below - all trial and error I'm afraid!


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## Zfbaby

I reset the legs and waist and tried refitting it but much lower down and he was very grumpy. It seemed worse to me and he started to cry and was sick twice in quick succession so I took it off. I'll post the pics. :(


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## Rachel_C

How tight are you doing them? You should still easily be able to slip 2 fingers in at the waist elastic and one finger at the legs, so when LO sits up it shouldn't restrict his tummy. You need the elastic to be snug but not stretched when you fasten it (if you pull it away, it should spring back nicely but not be difficult to pull in the first place), so when LO moves the elastic does stretch. If you stretch the elastic much putting the nappy on, it won't have enough stretch to accommodate movement.


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## OmiOmen

I know this is a little bit of an old thread now, are you still having issues?

It doesn't look like a good fit. I have in issue with fit because of the folded part of the insert if I put it at the front but not if I put it at the back. This problem [for me] is worse with Velcro than snaps and is also worse on nappies, like Rumparooz, that don't have some PUL at the top part of the nappy inside. Also are you doing a boy fold on your nappies? For example with my BG 4.0 I have the main insert in and the newborn one folded in half and to the front of the nappy.

I have also had the issue that the nappies will only fit too lose and leak or too tight and make reflux worse but there was no way to get a fit in-between that, it is very frustrating. The only thing that worked was to keep trying at least 1 cloth nappy ever day to test if it would fit. You simply can not use a nappy you know for sure is too loose and you can't keep them in one that is too tight. For some babies there are times when you just can not get the fit right and you need to weight for a little growth spurt. I also find that when one brand of nappies is doing this another brand with a different fit works. For me my itti bitti tuttos almost always fit but for a couple of days every now and again they won't but suddenly my BG 4.0 with snaps that normally don't fit will then. 

As for a night nappy I personally would not consider using a OSFM nappy. I really think a fitted two-part nappy is the way to go. So far we have used totsbots stretch with a blueberry wrap on nights but in the next few weeks I really am going to have to shell out for a couple of better night nappies. Some of my BTP I am fine with day naps in but some I will only really use for floor time because they just would not hold well enough if his nap was long.

I have to say that I feel your frustration. With DS1 every single cloth nappy leaked very badly on him and at 4 months we eventually gave up. In retrospect he was tiny and needed really tiny nappies but at the time I felt like having a knife fight with my cloth nappies! :oops: With DS2 we had issues but I worked through them. I know how frustrating it is to feel like you are doing something wrong but honestly for some people they work great right away and for others they simply do not fit well and take a lot of effort to get to work. In my experience of 'getting it wrong' so many times my tips are troubleshoot and then troubleshoot some more. Try adjusting the snaps, try doing something different with the inserts, try all the brands of nappies you have and consider trying something new. However do not try at high stress times! Do not experiment on a night or when out because that will drive you to stop using them much quicker. Put a nappy on when trying something new knowing it might leak but forgive the situation if/when it does and put on his more basic sleep-suits not his best clothes. The key to not giving up with cloth fully when they really won't work is perseverance but not to let it get to you either. If one brand of nappies really is not working put it to the side and try it again in a week or two. Remember they are growing and changing shape so quick that one day something might work and the next it might not. For example DS2 went up a row in his BTP and then a couple of weeks on he is slimming out and has gone back down. Also with growing I have the odd day that my itti bitti tuttos (my most reliable BTP) won't fit well and on those rare days my BG 4.0 with snaps will (my worst fitting nappy). If you can work out which nappies seem to have an opposite fit it really helps with babies who get an awkward fit.

I really do recommend a couple of fitted two-part nappies if you can not get BTP to work though. My newborn nappies were quickly outgrown but it took quite awhile to get my BTP fitting well and working but fitted two-part ones have always being bomb-proof on DS2. I found that when I was sick of the sight of BTP using my reliable fitted nappies felt a lot more encouraging than putting him in a disposable.

Sorry for such a long rambling post but I can really relate. :flower:


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## MamaPerez

Just curious, are you changing them right as he wets them? I thought my problem with a leaky diaper initially was the diaper fit, but I noticed if I changed them every two hours, whether it was a little bit wet, or completely full, we didn't really have the leaking problem.

Cloth nappies can only hold so much. Have you tried a bamboo insert? They work wonders. Also, where does your baby leak? Top front, out the legs, or top back? If he sleeps on his tummy and it leaks out the front, you can try a diaper with elastic in the front like the ones from the Little Bee Co.


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## Zfbaby

Omi- we seem to be getting on much better with our bg nappies now I've done a couple of things and lo has been through a grown spurt. In my 4.0s I've been using the insert on the smallest setting with the insert pushed towards the backlog the pocket and the fold at the front. This gives me a nice flat panel on his tummy but the folded section sits right over his bits. Not sure of this is the "right" way to do it but it's been working for us. I've not really had any leaks for a while this way. I change lo pretty much every 2hrs in 4.0s anyway so they aren't allowed to get close to full. 
I've had zero leaks in my elementals/organics and he's been in one for over 3hrs on a mammoth country walk. It was full and he had no leaks or tacky bum and that was without a stay dry liner. I was amazed. We've started using freetimes too and only had one leak with a snap nappy but I think I did something wrong with that one. 
I have even had a partial success with using my elemental at night. We normally use disposables at night but have to change him at his night feed or it leaks. I used a new style elemental with a little weeds hemp insert under the cotton and at his 3am feed (9hrs in) the leg was only a teeny bit damp. I call that a success as I'm happy to do a night change. I will get some fitted nappies soon though. We have 1 million pampers night nappies at the minute so it's not a massive issue at night. 
I has put my other brands away for now until I can sort them out. My rumparooz, totsbots and fuzzibunz still leak. I'm hoping to meet up with a private nappy advisor after my holiday next week and hopefully she can help me sort the others. 
I also did a strip wash which has helped but I will do another one soon and switch to a proper cloth powder as I'm noticing a smell again using ecover. 
All in all it's getting better but still a little way to go.

Mp- I change at least every 2 hrs during the day and we use bamboo and hemp inserts/boosters in most of our nappies. I use a bg newborn mf insert and a triple layer ll bamboo insert in some of my bg 4.0s and I use little weeds hemp inserts in my elementals for long trips and night. 

Has anyone notice that cloth makes it harder for lo to sit? Lou is only just starting to spend more time sitting and I've noticed that cloth seems to dig in and make sitting harder?!


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