# What do you think is an "acceptable" age to breastfeed until?



## Itsychik

First of all, I'm posting this here because I'm interested in everyone's opinion, especially people who don't/have never bf'd.

I recently read an article about a woman who is pregnant and tandem nursing her 2.5 and 5 year old, and was ridiculed on Facebook for posting a picture (the article can be found here: https://yourbirthcoach.com/2011/12/05/we-live-in-a-bottle-feeding-culture/#more-381)

Basically, it made me wonder: how long do YOU think is "acceptable" to keep breastfeeding a child?

Please don't feel the need to comment or justify your opinion. I'm not looking for an argument, just interested in what the average age is.

Thanks :flower:


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## Braven05

For me...I'm going to go until 1 year old...but I would be comfortable with 2 as an okay age to still BF. That being said..its all about choice and if someone wants to go longer, more power to them!


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## mummy2be...

Uh oh here we go..... 

Pre warn that this will turn nasty....IMO I don't like to see it after a child starts school at the latest.. But I respect it if people choose to continue after this.


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## mum22ttc#3

Personally I've always formula feed but I don't think there should be an unacceptable age on anything, whether it be breastfeeding, giving a dummy, co-sleeping, using a buggy, whatever.
It all comes down to whenever the parent wants to breastfeed, for some it may be 6 months for others 6 years. Just because I wouldn't choose to carry on past a certain age doesn't make it unacceptable or wrong.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think there is an unacceptable age. TBH I think unacceptable is a rather strong word.

:flower:


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## HellBunny

Whenever both mum and child want to as long as they are happy. I'm planning on bfing and my goal is 1 year hopefully! :) and maybe 2, or 3 ideally i'd like to stop somewhere between 1-3yrs though. Each to their own :)


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## Tanikins

I think up till 2 as this is when they make formula till so if you can bottle feed till then surely its the same for breast! Also at this age is normally just at night so would be at home. I do think it would be strange to see it but i cant explain why because id be fine to see a bottle - im confusing myself now

I defo think it should be stopped before scholl age of not its just gona cause massive amounts of bullying

MY OPINION


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## Fascination

I honestly have no idea. I would like to self wean, ideally, but I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable BFing a child of school age!

But that's just a personal opinion. I don't think any age is unacceptable though, parents should do whatever suits their lifestyle and their child. I think a lot of mum's would BF for longer if society didn't make it seem "odd". It's a shame. X


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## Bexxx

I put whenever child self weans, but I have to admit, I don't think I'd be too keen on Isla still feeding from me when she's 8 or so :lol:


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## minties

For me personally, around the age of 3 would be fine. That is for myself breastfeeding Thomas.

For someone else? I don't care. They can breastfeed until whenever. It is their business.


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## mum22ttc#3

Tanikins said:


> I think up till 2 as this is when they make formula till so if you can bottle feed till then surely its the same for breast! Also at this age is normally just at night so would be at home. I do think it would be strange to see it but i cant explain why because id be fine to see a bottle - im confusing myself now
> 
> I defo think it should be stopped before scholl age of not its just gona cause massive amounts of bullying
> 
> MY OPINION

Just because you only give formula till 2 doesn't mean you stop giving milk altogether, my DD2 is 3.5 and she still has milk, the only difference being is she has it from a cup and a cow. :)
To continue breastfeeding past 2 is I'm assuming a parents way of giving their LO milk, just in a different way to mine or yours. :flower:


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## Itsychik

mum22ttc#3 said:


> So I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think there is an unacceptable age. TBH I think unacceptable is a rather strong word.
> 
> :flower:

Thanks for responding :flower: I chose the word "acceptable" intentionally because in the link, many people responded to the mother and told her it was unacceptable or wrong to keep bf'ing past a certain age. Since here on BnB we're almost all mothers (or fathers) I was interested if that same sentiment was present. I could also have used the word "natural" but then it comes down to studies, etc, and I'm really specifically interested in opinions.


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## mommyof3co

I think it's "acceptable" to breastfeed until that particular mother and baby feel is right. The oldest I have nursed any of my 4 boys is 19mo, he self weaned then. I hope to nurse Preston to 2yrs but we will let him self wean again. At this point, being that I haven't nursed that old, I THINK I personally couldn't go over age 3 but I think it's completely different when you look at your now 3yr old and say "wow can't imagine breastfeeding him/her!! so weird!" but when you nurse from day 1 until that age it's completely different. It's not like one day they wake up and you are like wow ok today now you're too old.


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## mum22ttc#3

Itsychik said:


> mum22ttc#3 said:
> 
> 
> So I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think there is an unacceptable age. TBH I think unacceptable is a rather strong word.
> 
> :flower:
> 
> Thanks for responding :flower: I chose the word "acceptable" intentionally because in the link, many people responded to the mother and told her it was unacceptable or wrong to keep bf'ing past a certain age. Since here on BnB we're almost all mothers (or fathers) I was interested if that same sentiment was present. I could also have used the word "natural" but then it comes down to studies, etc, and I'm really specifically interested in opinions.Click to expand...

Oh I totally get that you were just quoting others, just what they have said is rather strong iykwim? :flower:


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## bigbetty

I've never breastfed but I would say as long as it feels right for mum and child - no-one has the right to tell a bf mum how long she should continue for xxx


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## feedindy

This is a hard question to answer for me because this is my first and we aren't even 6 months into BF yet. I can see myself going for a year. I have a niece who just turned 2 and she is so big I can't see myself BF a child that size. But I never say never and perhaps when my child is bigger I won't care. I have learned many new things and changed my mind on topics since I became a mom, so who knows if my mind will change on this too.

But for other moms, I say go for it as long as mom & child are happy. More power to you!

I wonder if anyone else is like me and think a 2-3 year old just looks so big, but then when my LO gets older, maybe 2-3 doesn't look so big anymore. :)


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## minties

feedindy said:


> This is a hard question to answer for me because this is my first and we aren't even 6 months into BF yet. I can see myself going for a year. I have a niece who just turned 2 and she is so big I can't see myself BF a child that size. But I never say never and perhaps when my child is bigger I won't care. I have learned many new things and changed my mind on topics since I became a mom, so who knows if my mind will change on this too.
> 
> But for other moms, I say go for it as long as mom & child are happy. More power to you!
> 
> I wonder if anyone else is like me and think a 2-3 year old just looks so big, but then when my LO gets older, maybe 2-3 doesn't look so big anymore. :)

Before and just after Thomas was born, there was no way in hell I could have pictured breastfeeding him at one. But here I am, still breastfeeding.

You don't just suddenly say, oh shit, he's huge now! Better stop! :haha:

It's so weird...that toddler you see walking all by himself, you still see him as your little baby.


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## mum22ttc#3

minties said:


> feedindy said:
> 
> 
> This is a hard question to answer for me because this is my first and we aren't even 6 months into BF yet. I can see myself going for a year. I have a niece who just turned 2 and she is so big I can't see myself BF a child that size. But I never say never and perhaps when my child is bigger I won't care. I have learned many new things and changed my mind on topics since I became a mom, so who knows if my mind will change on this too.
> 
> But for other moms, I say go for it as long as mom & child are happy. More power to you!
> 
> I wonder if anyone else is like me and think a 2-3 year old just looks so big, but then when my LO gets older, maybe 2-3 doesn't look so big anymore. :)
> 
> Before and just after Thomas was born, there was no way in hell I could have pictured breastfeeding him at one. But here I am, still breastfeeding.
> 
> You don't just suddenly say, oh shit, he's huge now! Better stop! :haha:
> 
> It's so weird...that toddler you see walking all by himself, you still see him as your little baby.Click to expand...

Before I had LO, DD2 (who was 2.3 years at the time) was still in nappies.
When I came home from the hospital after 2 days and changed her nappy OMG her bum looked so big. Before that though she just looked so small and was still my baby, I didn't see her as the toddler or pre-schooler that everyone else did, just my baby.

Don't know if that makes sense to others, it does in my head though. Just like minties said really, you don't just look and think wow their big today. Others might but you don't. :)


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## Tasha

I didnt BF with my first two and six weeks with my fourth but I put when the child self weans because that is when it is right for that child. I hope to BF for much longer if I get to bring a baby home again :thumbup:


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## Pookie 73

I think it really it down to the individual, personally for me I'm hoping that DD will wean soon at around 2 (BTW before I started BFing I thought that 1 year would be about right, but DD does get a lot of comfort from BFing and so we're carrying on for the timebeing)


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## Nickij

Well I voted for 2-3 years. Personally I don't intend to BF this long - I want to exculsively BF until 3 months, then combined feed from 3-6 months, then stop at 6 months just before I go back to work. Thats the plan, but we will see how it goes, maybe I will chose to continue a bit longer or stop a bit sooner we will see.

But I think its perfectly natural and normal for a child to be BF until the age of 3, and many cultures do this. Its a shame it our society that people would consider it wrong.


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## lisaf

I personally don't think I'd want to do it past the age of 3 so I voted for that.

I don't really think there is an unacceptable limit though... ok.. maybe 10 :haha:


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## Lauki

I think whatever age is acceptable as long as both mum and child are happy. Who am I to judge the decisions that other people make with their children?

Personally I don't know yet how long we'll feed. It's all up to Sophie and what will happen in our life in the next months/years.

Edit: This woman is an inspiration and I so so SO agree with her statements about the sexualisation of breasts. It's such a horrible thing of our modern society.


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## Betheney

minties said:


> For me personally, around the age of 3 would be fine. That is for myself breastfeeding Thomas.
> 
> For someone else? I don't care. They can breastfeed until whenever. It is their business.

I feel the exact same as this, i think i'll BF Eva until she is 2 but maybe 3.

However i think it's fantastic that many women breastfeed way beyond that. Good on them!!!!


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## pinklightbulb

I wouldn't have BF past 2-3 myself.


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## freckleonear

Biological and anthropological evidence shows that the natural weaning age of humans is anywhere up until 7 or 8 years old when they lose their milk teeth. The benefits to health and the immune system actually increase as the duration of breastfeeding increases. So I think it's acceptable to breastfeed until about 7 or 8 years old, well done to anyone who gets that far! The WHO actually recommends breastfeeding for at least 2 years and then as long as mutually desired. Personally, I probably wouldn't go further than 4 or 5 years.


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## Natalie Flynn

to reply to an earlier post formula is still advertised for up to 3year olds. my oldest son is currently having cow and gate toddler milk for 2-3 year olds. :flower:

anyways i dont think there is an 'unacceptable' age to nurse till. im almost 9 months into it after saying i only wanted to do until 6 months and now i can't actually imagine stopping until he decides x


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## Quackquack99

I don't think there's an acceptable age, it depends on the baby/child and mother. Who am I to decide when someone should stop only because society deems it unacceptable. I haven't breastfed summer but imy mum was a big advocate for breastfeeding. I just really dislike mothers getting slated because their child is too 'old'.


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## sequeena

There's no option for 'I don't care'.


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## Mum2b_Claire

sequeena said:


> There's no option for 'I don't care'.

That option would get my vote. Why on earth would it be any of my business. I don't even know what my personal 'limit' would be because I haven't yet had a breastfeeding relationship, and won't know how things will work out for my second baby and I until we do.


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## Ashley8806

I'm planning on breastfeeding until 6 months, if it all works out after going back to work. Then if I still have a good supply possibly pumping and giving her EBM until 1 year or so.


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## Natsku

I voted til the child self-weans which is what I intend to do with Maria (mainly cos I'm lazy, I imagine its hard work trying to stop a baby breastfeeding, least with Maria it probably would be) but I'm hoping she doesn't go past 3 or 4.


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## Rebaby

I voted for whenever the child self-weans :thumbup:

Some people who have never bf (or perhaps who have but stopped at a certain point) might feel funny about nursing a 5 year old (just picking 5 as an example btw) but if it was _their_ 5 year old, who they had been breastfeeding for 5 years, it probably wouldn't feel funny, iyswim?

I'm not sure if that makes sense, but i think pre-pregnancy if you'd said to me i would breastfeed beyond a year i might have thought "ooh that's a bit odd" but i breastfed Toby for 13 months and when we stopped it wasn't anything to do with being weirded out by how big/tall/old he was or anything like that.

In fact i sometimes wish we hadn't stopped at that point and that i was tandem feeding now as i wonder if it would help him to adjust to Rudy being here more easily.

Anyway, i think it's entirely personal and i'm happy with whatever other people want to do re: self-weaning. I am unsure if i _personally_ could continue breastfeeding up to the age of 7 but that doesn't mean i think there's anything wrong with those who do :flower:


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## menageriemom

Agreed, it's hard to know how you will feel about this personally until you are in the position to be making the choice with your own child. A question that I would like to see people's opinions on is "how old is too old"? If the child continues to want to BF on a regular basis and does not self wean, at what age should the mother make the choice? Not interested in a huge debate either just what people have to say.


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## lau86

I'd be interested to hear what the men think about it!


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## summer rain

I'm shocked someone put 3-6 months-I am hoping thats a troll. Personally I would like to continue for 2+ years; but its completely up to others how long they carry on for xx


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## shimmy

I put 3-4 but would understand and not judge anyone who went above that. Each to their own but that would be my personal limit. I stopped breastfeeding at 7 months exactly but we were both happy with that my Lo never looked back. My energy levels were so low with bf all night working and looking after the house, he's happy I'm happy but with the next baby I will be hoping to get to 1+


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## Arisa

Tanikins said:


> I think up till 2 as this is when they make formula till so if you can bottle feed till then surely its the same for breast! Also at this age is normally just at night so would be at home. I do think it would be strange to see it but i cant explain why because id be fine to see a bottle - im confusing myself now
> 
> I defo think it should be stopped before scholl age of not its just gona cause massive amounts of bullying
> 
> MY OPINION

I completely agree, the bullying and ridicule would be massive.
Personally I feel if they are old enough to ask for it, they do not need it, they get enough nutrients from solid food and real milk once they are past two.
Some kids do it for comfort though, I personally think its wrong for a mother to force her child to continue if the child does not want to and has expressed an interest in stopping


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## kit10grl

summer rain said:


> I'm shocked someone put 3-6 months-I am hoping thats a troll. Personally I would like to continue for 2+ years; but its completely up to others how long they carry on for xx

More shocked someone put its never acceptable to be honest.

Not brave enough to leave a comment so hoping thats a troll too


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## HellBunny

Not trying to cause a debate, but a 10 month old who is advanced could say for example "mummy, milk" does that mean they are too old for it? :S :wacko:


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## freckleonear

Arisa said:


> Tanikins said:
> 
> 
> I think up till 2 as this is when they make formula till so if you can bottle feed till then surely its the same for breast! Also at this age is normally just at night so would be at home. I do think it would be strange to see it but i cant explain why because id be fine to see a bottle - im confusing myself now
> 
> I defo think it should be stopped before scholl age of not its just gona cause massive amounts of bullying
> 
> MY OPINION
> 
> I completely agree, the bullying and ridicule would be massive.
> *Personally I feel if they are old enough to ask for it*, they do not need it, they get enough nutrients from solid food and real milk once they are past two.
> Some kids do it for comfort though, I personally think its wrong for a mother to force her child to continue if the child does not want to and has expressed an interest in stoppingClick to expand...

Newborns ask for milk by crying. By 9 months my daughter could use sign language to ask for milk and she could ask verbally before 12 months. The ability to ask for it has nothing to do with whether or not they need it. :shrug: Also, breastmilk is real milk! More so than randomly drinking the milk of a completely different mammal anyway.

And yes, my daughter feeds for comfort. Comfort is another one of the huge advantages of breastfeeding toddlers and older children.


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## rwhite

Doesn't matter, whatever works for mumma and baby :thumbup: I would have fed Lachlan past 18 mos/two if he hadn't been a horrific and persistant biter :wacko:

What I don't think is acceptable is people poking their noses in on it when it's not their business, I think that's very off putting and embarassing for mums whatever the topic. I would be horrified (and angry) if anybody dared tell me when to stop breastfeeding my child.



kit10grl said:


> summer rain said:
> 
> 
> I'm shocked someone put 3-6 months-I am hoping thats a troll. Personally I would like to continue for 2+ years; but its completely up to others how long they carry on for xx
> 
> More shocked someone put its never acceptable to be honest.
> 
> Not brave enough to leave a comment so hoping thats a troll tooClick to expand...

:thumbup: I'd be interested to hear from them, personally. The coward :lol:


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## summer rain

kit10grl said:


> summer rain said:
> 
> 
> I'm shocked someone put 3-6 months-I am hoping thats a troll. Personally I would like to continue for 2+ years; but its completely up to others how long they carry on for xx
> 
> More shocked someone put its never acceptable to be honest.
> 
> Not brave enough to leave a comment so hoping thats a troll tooClick to expand...

That one (saying its never acceptable) wasn't up when I posted my post, all of those saying under 1 its no longer acceptable shock me, how do you decide that a small baby who probably cannot talk and walk is 'too old' to BF and that it is unacceptable?! xx


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## special_kala

my limit would be 4 but once shes 2 i will start doing dont ask dont offer


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## tina_h75

All 3 of my children had stopped breast feeding by 9 months. Its entirely up to the individual and what works for them, but personally I think if they are old enough to ask for it then thats too old to have it.


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## Eve

I think until the child self weans :)


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## Vickie

thread has been cleaned up so it doesn't get derailed entirely ;)


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## Tasha

Sorry Vickie am on my phone and was replying takes forever, lol.

Any way as I said before I think when the child self weans or mother is no longer happy.

I don't get the thing about bullying if they are school age. I don't imagine they will be BF in the playground?


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## minties

tina_h75 said:


> All 3 of my children had stopped breast feeding by 9 months. Its entirely up to the individual and what works for them, but personally I think if they are old enough to ask for it then thats too old to have it.

They are old enough to ask for it from the day they are born.


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## Blah11

I bf amelie until she decided to stop (33 months) and will do the same for Roman. Unsure why it bothers anyone else and to be frank, i don't care if its not socially acceptable.


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## LauraLu

This post makes me a bit sad to be honest...in a good way. I never once offered the boob to my children. I was way too intimidated by the whole thing. I regret it to this day.

Maybe if we go for baby #3 I'll gain the confidence to at least try it. I really want to know that intimate experience.

Thanks for letting me share.


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## rwhite

LauraLu said:


> This post makes me a bit sad to be honest...in a good way. I never once offered the boob to my children. I was way too intimidated by the whole thing. I regret it to this day.
> 
> Maybe if we go for baby #3 I'll gain the confidence to at least try it. I really want to know that intimate experience.
> 
> Thanks for letting me share.

:hugs: It can be a lot to get your head around, the latching, the cues etc...especially when you're sleep deprived. Don't feel sad x


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## mrs_park

It's none of my business what others do.

I have been thinking about weaning but am going to make it to 12 months as I know I'll regret it. I think I will continue until LO self weans. He feeds less these days and is picky and choosy when he feeds, but when he wants it, he scrambles up to me, pulls my top down and burrows his face in my chest saying 'ah ah ah'. Is that 'asking' for it?


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## ashley2pink

For me I would do up to 3 years though I do wean at 2 years. I plan on weaning off bf'ing at 2 years again with my new dd.
I really hate saying what's acceptable for others though. I really could care less how long others bf and would prefer they go "too long" rather than not long enough. But I guess if I had to choose an age maybe stop by age 5? But really I still dont feel comfortable saying that. I do believe there is an age to stop, but that would be different for each child. Could be 2 for one, and 6 the next. I did see the video of the 8 year old still nursing. I do think that is too old-she couldnt get milk out easily at that point because of her permanent teeth.


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## eleda

minties said:


> They are old enough to ask for it from the day they are born.

This!!! 

I'm planning on breastfeeding Adele until she's at least 2. Beyond that, it's up to her. If it's considered "unacceptable" I'd say the real problem is western culture and all its weird hang ups about women's bodies, not me feeding an older kid.


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## whistle

Arisa said:


> I personally think its wrong for a mother to force her child to continue if the child does not want to and has expressed an interest in stopping

I think that would be quite difficult - not really sure how you force a child to breastfeed? Self weaning means going until the child wants to stop, it's the complete opposite of doing it just for the mum. I know I would carry on till LO wanted to stop if I could, even though I already have days when I feel like I'm looking forward to having my boobs back to myself.

To answer OP - I voted self-weaning, because I think it's acceptable until the child is ready to stop. Personally I can see us stopping somewhere between one and two years old once work starts.


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## tokyo_c

I can't see the poll as I'm on my phone but I would have to say as long as the nursing relationship continues to work for both mother and child. It has nothing to do with anyone other than those two people.

Personally I can't see myself feeding past 2, but if/when I get to that point if she's still wanting to nurse who knows how I'll feel...


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## membas#1

i hope O self weans around 2 years but i put that whatever is best for mom and baby--to each their own :)


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## angel2010

I don't really feel comfortable saying what is acceptable for other, so I put what I would do which was up to 2 years. I say this now, but I wasn't able to bf my son. Also, if I am lucky enough to be able to bf my next, I can't say I will for sure stop at 2 years. If when the time comes I am comfortable going longer, then I will no matter what others think.


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## whit.

Breastfeeding is unacceptable, ever.


























:haha:


*edit* totally said that before I even read it was an option on the poll :rofl:


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## Arisa

freckleonear said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tanikins said:
> 
> 
> I think up till 2 as this is when they make formula till so if you can bottle feed till then surely its the same for breast! Also at this age is normally just at night so would be at home. I do think it would be strange to see it but i cant explain why because id be fine to see a bottle - im confusing myself now
> 
> I defo think it should be stopped before scholl age of not its just gona cause massive amounts of bullying
> 
> MY OPINION
> 
> I completely agree, the bullying and ridicule would be massive.
> *Personally I feel if they are old enough to ask for it*, they do not need it, they get enough nutrients from solid food and real milk once they are past two.
> Some kids do it for comfort though, I personally think its wrong for a mother to force her child to continue if the child does not want to and has expressed an interest in stoppingClick to expand...
> 
> Newborns ask for milk by crying. By 9 months my daughter could use sign language to ask for milk and she could ask verbally before 12 months. The ability to ask for it has nothing to do with whether or not they need it. :shrug: Also, breastmilk is real milk! More so than randomly drinking the milk of a completely different mammal anyway.
> 
> And yes, my daughter feeds for comfort. Comfort is another one of the huge advantages of breastfeeding toddlers and older children.Click to expand...


I dont know, its just the people I know all stopped breastfeeding once their children turned one and my mother stopped breastfeeding me at six months, I have a friend called anna who had a traumatic time breastfeeding and I am personally terrified of it. Its something women wont usually talk about because its one of those things that are not said, perhaps I am just expected to love the idea of it but its always freaked me out and things like mastitis, giving up dairy products completely and the actual act of suckling scares me, its a personal anxiety I have. I know its not normal but its something I have battled and again my mother, SIL and cousins all stopped when their kids were 6-7 months and think its gross to keep going beyond one year, its something that has been drilled into me:nope::nope:

I would love to be someone who enjoys breastfeeding and wants to do it, but I'll see what happens when LO is in my arms, I will probably want to breastfeed:baby::baby:

My personal belief's are not that we are all mammal anyway and that is used alot here when talking about mothers, birth, feeding and maternal instinct. I just to be labelled as a baby machine and milk bar but I am a bit of a feminist ;)


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## ashley2pink

I hope you do change your mind Arisa. Breastfeeding is amazing. It's sad that some people think it's gross. Its the way we were made to feed our babies. And not just as baby's but into toddlerhood as well. Maybe you could decide to just give it a try. You will probably realize it doesnt feel that awkward at all


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## lozzy21

I put 3/4 years. Nutritionally milk isent a big part of there diet by then and as far as comfort goes well i think a 4 year old having a dummy or a bottle by this age is unacceptable so it would make me a hypocrite if i thought breastfeeding after this age was ok.


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## mummy2lola

I've put 1-2 years as My niece is 2.5 and very tall and I wouldn't feel comfortable watching her breastfeed BUT that's my issue and it's none of my business who chooses to bf longer.I'm not trying to b rude or offend by putting 2yrs as I know many on here bf past that,as I say it's my issue no one elses and I'm just responding to the poll xx


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## Arisa

lozzy21 said:


> I put 3/4 years. Nutritionally milk isent a big part of there diet by then and as far as comfort goes well i think a 4 year old having a dummy or a bottle by this age is unacceptable so it would make me a hypocrite if i thought breastfeeding after this age was ok.

Yeah agreed :flower: but thats my personal opinion too. Bottles and dummies at four years old is not that great as they would rely on it as a crutch and it would be extremely tough at school if a five year old was still suckling on a bottle at recess. Well my mother did like breastfeeding my other two sisters but she had to stop early with me because she got a bad infection and needed to be put in hospital. 

Not all women have to give up dairy do they? or is this one of those common misconceptions??


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## Srrme

I would prefer to breastfeed until 2 years old, but I don't see anything wrong with breastfeeding after that. My mother breastfed all 7 of her children until 3-4 years old. :flower:


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## MaskedKitteh

Personaly a year.

I didn't let my ff'd son have bottles after a year, I won't let my bf'd son have boob after a year :)


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## goddess25

I BF until DD was 8 months old and I had to stop... we had been dealing with pediatricians for no weight gain and they looked into it all and basically my milk was giving her no nutrition at all so I stopped and switched to formula and she is now thriving. 

However if it had one well I would still be feeding her and I believe in BF until the child self weans. I think most children would self wean within the first few years or sooner.


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## lindseymw

mummy2lola said:


> I've put 1-2 years as My niece is 2.5 and very tall and I wouldn't feel comfortable watching her breastfeed BUT that's my issue and it's none of my business who chooses to bf longer.I'm not trying to b rude or offend by putting 2yrs as I know many on here bf past that,as I say it's my issue no one elses and I'm just responding to the poll xx

This ^^

I have a nearly 3 year old & personally I would feel very uncomfortable to BF him, I would also feel uncomfortable watching someone BFing a child his age but as Mummy2Lola has said, that's my issue/problem. 

I would say whatever feels comfortable between Mummy & Baby/Child is acceptable, sod everyone else! (Not sure if that's an option on Poll, on my phone so I can't see it)


----------



## Lauki

Arisa said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> I put 3/4 years. Nutritionally milk isent a big part of there diet by then and as far as comfort goes well i think a 4 year old having a dummy or a bottle by this age is unacceptable so it would make me a hypocrite if i thought breastfeeding after this age was ok.
> 
> Yeah agreed :flower: but thats my personal opinion too. Bottles and dummies at four years old is not that great as they would rely on it as a crutch and it would be extremely tough at school if a five year old was still suckling on a bottle at recess. Well my mother did like breastfeeding my other two sisters but she had to stop early with me because she got a bad infection and needed to be put in hospital.
> 
> *Not all women have to give up dairy do they? or is this one of those common misconceptions??*Click to expand...

I haven't had to give up dairy :). Neither have I had mastitis or any other physical problems! Don't let anyone scare you with that!!


----------



## Blah11

I've never suffered from cracked nipples, mastitis, gave up anything etc either.

& for those who would find it odd to feed their toddler cos they're so big, they don't get that big overnight. At what height does it become uncomfortable at?


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## midori1999

Whatever age the child self weans is 'acceptable' to me. That is what I plan to let happen and although I know it's more likely than not to be before 4, I have no problem if it's way beyond that. I know a couple of BF school age children and they aren't bullied, why would anyone at school know they are still BF? :wacko:

As for the good old arguements of 'once they can ask for it they're too old', 'you wouldn't give a bottle/dummy at that age', 'you wouldn't give formula at that age' etc, breastmilk and therefore BF has nutritional and health benefits to both the Mother and child for as long as it continues. In fact, some benefits to the Mother (such as reduction in the risk of cancers) become greater the longer the duration of BF. Plus, a breast, unlike a dummy or a bottle, cannot be damaging to a child mouth/tooth or other development.


----------



## Tasha

I was just looking up about extending breast feeding because I think it take six or seven years for a good immunity to build up, and so that is quite a good reason (amongst many) to continue BF for as long as you want but it was shocking for me to read that many people think six months + is extended BF


----------



## whistle

Arisa said:


> Not all women have to give up dairy do they? or is this one of those common misconceptions??

Nope. :flower: if you had to give up dairy it would likely be because your baby is intolerant to cow's milk, in which case mainstream formulas made with cow's milk wouldn't exactly solve that problem.

As for feminism and breastfeeding, have a look into the history of formula. To me, the reason formula is seen as the norm now is because of male-centred 'scientific' approaches which tried to undermine women's ability to feed their babies, and convince mothers that strict measurements, routines and man-made formulas were superior to women's bodies.

I by no means think feminists don't formula feed, but I don't think it's unfeminist to breastfeed either.


----------



## midori1999

BF rates in France are pitifully low and one of the reasons is the huge cultural belief that it goes against feminism. 

Surely feminism is partly about women having the choice to choose what they want and that includes to BF their child and how long they do it for? BF doesn't mean you are seen as a 'milk machine' it just means you are feeding your baby as nature intended.


----------



## lindseymw

Blah11 said:


> I've never suffered from cracked nipples, mastitis, gave up anything etc either.
> 
> & for those who would find it odd to feed their toddler cos they're so big, they don't get that big overnight. At what height does it become uncomfortable at?

For me, it's not an actual height thing as such, as in 'when they get to 100cm, they are too big' but as I stopped BF him at around 2-3months old, he was still a tiny little baby then, & now I'm BF DS2, I look at DS1 & the size difference & personally couldn't imagine starting to BF him again iykwim? It's not so much carrying on BFing to that age, but restarting BFing at that age after stopping at such a young age that feels a bit uncomfortable to me. (It's difficult to explain what I mean, so if I make no sense whatsoever, please ignore me!)


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Arisa said:


> I completely agree, the bullying and ridicule would be massive.*
> Personally I feel if they are old enough to ask for it, they do not need it, they get enough nutrients from solid food and real milk once they are past two.*
> Some kids do it for comfort though, I personally think its wrong for a mother to force her child to continue if the child does not want to and has expressed an interest in stopping

What's real milk? Do you mean milk from a cow? Why is that real milk to you?


----------



## XJessicaX

WOW, one person voted 'never acceptable!'....

I honestly think until the child can ask for it, or is feeding themselves 3 meals a day. I do see 2-3 year olds clambering over their mothers pulling at their tops and asking for booby which I think is a little old and especially as they are not using it for nutritional needs, more a comfort suck and then they hop off and run around with their friends again.


----------



## Tasha

I have seen six month olds pulling at their mummy's tops, I have seen eight month olds sign milk, and my own son was able to say milk by around ten months. Surely those ages are not too old but yet they are asking in their own way? And I guess it could be argued that even newborns ask in their own way - crying.


----------



## freckleonear

Just wanted to point out that BF and FF are not at all comparable as far as when to stop is concerned. The recommendation for stopping bottles at 1 year is because bottle feeding causes milk to pool in the mouth, as well as the actual formula causing tooth decay. Obviously breastfeeding doesn't cause either of these problems and actually continues to provide benefits that can't be replaced by solid food or other milk, so the reasons for stopping FF have nothing to do with it. Sadly it seems to be ingrained into our society that you stop BF at the same age you would stop FF.

I stopped feeding my son at 15 months and a year later I just couldn't imagine breastfeeding a child his size. I am now feeding my daughter who is not far off that age! Looking at my nearly 4 year old now, there's no way I can imagine breastfeeding him, but who knows, in a year or two I may still be breastfeeding my daughter! What Blah said is true, they don't get that big overnight.


----------



## XJessicaX

Tasha- you are right. I don't want to offend. Just an opinion. I think its just seeing a large grown up child asking in a crystal clear voice for milk that I find odd and then seeing the child sprawled across the mother. I think maybe as a night time or a morning comfort feed its fine, but just (from watching friends and relatives still breast feeding 2 or 3 year olds) jumping on to mummy for a 30 second suck and jumping off again I dont see the point!


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Friends babies were doing the 'quick suck and crawl away' thing from about 9 months. I can't say that I wouldn't possibly find that irritating to have my child do that but if the mums don't, then fine.


----------



## Aunty E

I'm doing my best to wean Teddy now - he's such a pain on the boob and keeps biting me. But if he weren't being a pain about it, I'd feel comfortable carrying on for a fair bit longer. I don't know how much longer, I've never been in that postion. I don't _think _I'd be uncomfortable BFing Imogen, but she's shown no interest since she was five months old or so :)


----------



## Rebaby

freckleonear said:


> Just wanted to point out that BF and FF are not at all comparable as far as when to stop is concerned. The recommendation for stopping bottles at 1 year is because bottle feeding causes milk to pool in the mouth, as well as the actual formula causing tooth decay. Obviously breastfeeding doesn't cause either of these problems and actually continues to provide benefits that can't be replaced by solid food or other milk, so the reasons for stopping FF have nothing to do with it. Sadly it seems to be ingrained into our society that you stop BF at the same age you would stop FF.
> 
> I stopped feeding my son at 15 months and a year later I just couldn't imagine breastfeeding a child his size. I am now feeding my daughter who is not far off that age! Looking at my nearly 4 year old now, there's no way I can imagine breastfeeding him, but who knows, in a year or two I may still be breastfeeding my daughter! What Blah said is true, they don't get that big overnight.

This is what i was trying to say but not doing a very good job of it!

Looking at Toby now, compared to Rudy, yes of course he seems massive, but if i'd continued feeding beyond 13 months i wouldn't suddenly be faced with feeding this huge 2 year old, it would have gradually happened day by day. 6 month old babies look massive when you have a tiddly squishy newborn, then when your baby is 6 months, they look just right and it's the one year olds cruising around that seem massive, but when your LO is one, they're still your little baby (if that makes sense?) so i can see how people might look at someone else's five year old breastfeeding and think "ooh i'm not sure if i could do that :wacko: " but to the mum, and the five year old it just seems totally normal :thumbup:

The comment about "real milk" actually made me lol :lol: All milk is breast milk it just depends on whose breast it has come from!


----------



## Tasha

Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?


----------



## mummy2lola

Tasha said:


> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?

I was thinking about writing how I thought about this earlier so thought I would answer ur question if that's ok :thumbup: 

For me,I don't see cows milk as "real milk" compared to breastmilk as it's all milk just from different boobs so for me if a mum still wanted her child to have breastmilk then I would vote 100yrs old if it was in a cup,I'm just not comfortable seeing a toddler on a breast and then running off to play with friends but again that's my issue and I don't mean any harm to anyone else xx


----------



## XJessicaX

mummy2lola said:


> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?
> 
> I was thinking about writing how I thought about this earlier so thought I would answer ur question if that's ok :thumbup:
> 
> For me,I don't see cows milk as "real milk" compared to breastmilk as it's all milk just from different boobs so for me if a mum still wanted her child to have breastmilk then I would vote 100yrs old if it was in a cup,I'm just not comfortable seeing a toddler on a breast and then running off to play with friends but again that's my issue and I don't mean any harm to anyone else xxClick to expand...

My thoughts too.


----------



## lilyanne

Before I had Phoebe I am ashamed to say that I thought it was strange to breastfeed past 1 year and believed 2 year olds BFing was almost unacceptable. TBH my goal was to make it 6 months. I think my opinions came from the fact that I had never seen older children BF and everyone I knew weaned early, if they BF at all.
Now having BF I can't imagine stopping anytime soon. My attitude has definitely changed and my goal is to make it past 1 year and to do it until Phoebe self weans, hopefully before 2 though if she wants to go longer, I won't cross it out though I probably will not do it in public at that point.


----------



## Natasha2605

I voted until the child self weans and/or mummy is no longer comfortable or wanting to do it. Although I think by the age of three or four I don't think it's really neccessary to be doing so in the same way that at that age Summer doesn't need a bottle.

I never BF Summer and this LO won't be either but I still find it sad that some people think that such young babies shouldn't be BF :( 

It's their food, same way I choose to give Summer's hers from a bottle at that age. How can that possibly be unacceptable!


----------



## lozzy21

Tasha said:


> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?

Giving a child expressed milk for me is acceptable at any age, who doesnt like a glass of milk now and then? Its the actual feeding from the breast past 3/4 that i dont think is right.

I feel by this age they should be able to get there comfort in other ways, like if you have had a child who has only ever been comforted by breastfeeding and then suddenly at age 3 starts nursery which lets face it can be a really scary time for children and they no longer have there only form of comfort, the psychological affects will probably be massive on the child where as if you have a child who stopped breast feeding earlier or wasn't breast fed at all then they will have been comforted by a cuddle and might have a teddy or a comfort blanket which can be took anywhere.


----------



## Blah11

XJessicaX said:


> WOW, one person voted 'never acceptable!'....
> 
> I honestly think until the child can ask for it, or is feeding themselves 3 meals a day. I do see 2-3 year olds clambering over their mothers pulling at their tops and asking for booby which I think is a little old and especially as they are not using it for nutritional needs, more a comfort suck and then they hop off and run around with their friends again.

Where do you actually see this? Just that I am obviously very BF aware and have NEVER seen an older toddler do this in public (including my own) :shrug: At 2 and 3 years old the vast majority of BF toddlers have it once, maybe twice a day or a bit more if unwell. Its not like a baby where they ask for it every couple of hours.


----------



## Blah11

lozzy21 said:


> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?
> 
> Giving a child expressed milk for me is acceptable at any age, who doesnt like a glass of milk now and then? Its the actual feeding from the breast past 3/4 that i dont think is right.
> 
> I feel by this age they should be able to get there comfort in other ways, like if you have had a child who has only ever been comforted by breastfeeding and then suddenly at age 3 starts nursery which lets face it can be a really scary time for children and they no longer have there only form of comfort, the psychological affects will probably be massive on the child where as if you have a child who stopped breast feeding earlier or wasn't breast fed at all then they will have been comforted by a cuddle and might have a teddy or a comfort blanket which can be took anywhere.Click to expand...

I totally disagree with that. Again, toddlers who BF have other forms of comfort too. They don't fall and hurt themselves and demand boob first. They more than likely want a cuddle from their mum :shrug: Amelie has taken a doll to bed for a long time and she was still BF during that time so its not like breastfeeding was the only was I could comfort her.


----------



## summer rain

Tasha said:


> I have seen six month olds pulling at their mummy's tops, I have seen eight month olds sign milk, and my own son was able to say milk by around ten months. Surely those ages are not too old but yet they are asking in their own way? And I guess it could be argued that even newborns ask in their own way - crying.

Exactly, I also just don't get this idea that once a child can ask for something they are no longer allowed it-that could be applied to anything couldn't it? And then it would be seen as harsh and unfair so why isn't that rule of thumb seen as harsh and unfair when it comes to BF? My son can walk and he has his own way of asking for mummy milk, sometimes he calls it 'yaya' sometimes he makes this cute impatient coughing noise and sometimes he does this little 'sign' with his hands like milking a cow :wacko: no idea where he got that from but those are his ways of asking. Also as he can walk and is quite big for his age I suppose some people would consider him too old to be BF, even though they wouldn't consider other under-1s who are less well advanced to be too old-doesn't make sense to me xx


----------



## lozzy21

Blah11 said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?
> 
> Giving a child expressed milk for me is acceptable at any age, who doesnt like a glass of milk now and then? Its the actual feeding from the breast past 3/4 that i dont think is right.
> 
> I feel by this age they should be able to get there comfort in other ways, like if you have had a child who has only ever been comforted by breastfeeding and then suddenly at age 3 starts nursery which lets face it can be a really scary time for children and they no longer have there only form of comfort, the psychological affects will probably be massive on the child where as if you have a child who stopped breast feeding earlier or wasn't breast fed at all then they will have been comforted by a cuddle and might have a teddy or a comfort blanket which can be took anywhere.Click to expand...
> 
> I totally disagree with that. Again, toddlers who BF have other forms of comfort too. They don't fall and hurt themselves and demand boob first. They more than likely want a cuddle from their mum :shrug: Amelie has taken a doll to bed for a long time and she was still BF during that time so its not like breastfeeding was the only was I could comfort her.Click to expand...

Your child may have other forms of comfort but some dont. When i worked in childcare they were 3 children in one nursery who screamed for the entire time they were there and when quizing the parents on what they do to comfort them there only answer was breastfeeding :shrug: They hadent been left with there fathers for any length of time because only mum could settle them by BF and the thought it was a good idea to go put them in nursery for 3 hours:dohh: You get some parents who put a dummy or a bottle in the babys mouth at the slightest wimper and some people do it with the breast too.


----------



## Poppeteer

I still breastfeed my nearly 3 year old and my 2.5 week old newborn...

I never set out with a timeline with which I would wean my daughter... I've just always gone with the flow and it still feels right to bf her.

I would never bf her in public... Which is sad, but I feel it would get a very negative reaction from some especially as my daughter is very tall for her age and looks closer to 4 or even 5 years old. Even my daughter seems to be aware that it is not the 'norm' to bf for this long as if we're out and about if she wants to bf she will whine about wanting to go home so she can bf.


----------



## Blah11

lozzy21 said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?
> 
> Giving a child expressed milk for me is acceptable at any age, who doesnt like a glass of milk now and then? Its the actual feeding from the breast past 3/4 that i dont think is right.
> 
> I feel by this age they should be able to get there comfort in other ways, like if you have had a child who has only ever been comforted by breastfeeding and then suddenly at age 3 starts nursery which lets face it can be a really scary time for children and they no longer have there only form of comfort, the psychological affects will probably be massive on the child where as if you have a child who stopped breast feeding earlier or wasn't breast fed at all then they will have been comforted by a cuddle and might have a teddy or a comfort blanket which can be took anywhere.Click to expand...
> 
> I totally disagree with that. Again, toddlers who BF have other forms of comfort too. They don't fall and hurt themselves and demand boob first. They more than likely want a cuddle from their mum :shrug: Amelie has taken a doll to bed for a long time and she was still BF during that time so its not like breastfeeding was the only was I could comfort her.Click to expand...
> 
> Your child may have other forms of comfort but some dont. When i worked in childcare they were 3 children in one nursery who screamed for the entire time they were there and when quizing the parents on what they do to comfort them there only answer was breastfeeding :shrug: They hadent been left with there fathers for any length of time because only mum could settle them by BF and the thought it was a good idea to go put them in nursery for 3 hours:dohh: You get some parents who put a dummy or a bottle in the babys mouth at the slightest wimper and some people do it with the breast too.Click to expand...

but some children are clingy to their parents regardless of how theyre fed surely? A 3 year old starting nursery who was FF but his mum stayed at home so was always with him is going to behave the same way as a BF child you talk about.. want their mum. Amelie started nursery at 10m and yes she cried for a week or so but that was because she was so attached to me, not so much my boobs.


----------



## Tacey

XJessicaX said:


> Tasha- you are right. I don't want to offend. Just an opinion. I think its just seeing a large grown up child asking in a crystal clear voice for milk that I find odd and then seeing the child sprawled across the mother. I think maybe as a night time or a morning comfort feed its fine, but just (from watching friends and relatives still breast feeding 2 or 3 year olds) jumping on to mummy for a 30 second suck and jumping off again I dont see the point!

Hope you don't mind me posting, as I'm 'between babies' at the moment!

I'm nursing my 2 year old (as I type actually - she's napping!) and most of our 'feeds' now are as you describe. Quick suckle, then back on with her day. It is a comfort thing, and a way of making contact. Sometimes it reassures her if she's feeling insecure, and it's incredibly good at calming her when she's angry. It's obviously still a fantastic food, and the immunological benefits are wonderful, but for us it's more about reconnection. Of course, there are other ways to do this, but I don't think any I've come across work so effectively. In the very turbulent toddler years, it would seem foolish of me to stop her getting comfort so effectively just because she asks me for it (politely, I'll add!). 

One day, she'll use different methods, or have emotionally matured enough to deal with big feelings without it. But she still needs it, and I'm happy to meet her need. I think one of the big reasons people find it so weird is that it's not seen often. I think your friends and relatives' children who are still nursing are very fortunate!


----------



## freckleonear

lozzy21 said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> Can I ask to the people who have given say 2 or 3 etc, is it the actual feeding from the breast? Like I mean if mum expressed and child had it from a cup would your thoughts be the same?
> 
> Giving a child expressed milk for me is acceptable at any age, who doesnt like a glass of milk now and then? Its the actual feeding from the breast past 3/4 that i dont think is right.
> 
> I feel by this age they should be able to get there comfort in other ways, like if you have had a child who has only ever been comforted by breastfeeding and then suddenly at age 3 starts nursery which lets face it can be a really scary time for children and they no longer have there only form of comfort, the psychological affects will probably be massive on the child where as if you have a child who stopped breast feeding earlier or wasn't breast fed at all then they will have been comforted by a cuddle and might have a teddy or a comfort blanket which can be took anywhere.Click to expand...
> 
> I totally disagree with that. Again, toddlers who BF have other forms of comfort too. They don't fall and hurt themselves and demand boob first. They more than likely want a cuddle from their mum :shrug: Amelie has taken a doll to bed for a long time and she was still BF during that time so its not like breastfeeding was the only was I could comfort her.Click to expand...
> 
> Your child may have other forms of comfort but some dont. When i worked in childcare they were 3 children in one nursery who screamed for the entire time they were there and when quizing the parents on what they do to comfort them there only answer was breastfeeding :shrug: They hadent been left with there fathers for any length of time because only mum could settle them by BF and the thought it was a good idea to go put them in nursery for 3 hours:dohh: You get some parents who put a dummy or a bottle in the babys mouth at the slightest wimper and some people do it with the breast too.Click to expand...

Your examples sound more like babies than older children to be honest. When my children were babies yes I used to give them the breast for the slightest little wimper. For almost the first year only I could settle them, so I didn't leave them with anyone. Then they turned into happy and confident toddlers, who only had a couple of feeds each day and would happily spend time apart from me. I like this quote:


> Meeting a childs dependency needs, according to that childs unique timetable, is the key to helping that child achieve independence. Children who achieve independence at their own pace are more secure in that independence then children forced into independence prematurely.


----------



## Jchihuahua

I breastfed Daisy for 17 months and am now breastfeeding my new baby. I would have happily fed her up until about 3 years old if she'd not stopped wanting to breastfeed herself.


----------



## Itsychik

Just a random question... someone asked whether it would be acceptable to give 'older' children (3+ years) EBM in a cup. I'm just curious, but would you still warm it up (assuming it was kept in fridge)? Or give it to them cold? At what age do they start drinking 'cold' milk?


----------



## midori1999

Clearly the health benefits continue well beyond when they can 'ask for it'. As for the comfort issue, why wouldn't you want to comfort your child is as many ways as possible? Why not, when they have hurt themselves, offr them something that has proven analgesic effects and, according to some toddlers is 'better than calpol'? 

Bizarre that it's deemed OK by some to feed expressed milk, but not feed directly from the breast after a certain age, particularly as feeding directly from the breast offers more benefits for the child. To me, this is clearly down to societies' obsession with breasts as sexual objects and also the fact that as a society we seem to now want our children to grow up as fast as possible. As soon as they're born we want them to sleep alone, to STTN as fast as possible, to learn to self soothe, we want them to be independant as soon as possible. I find it very sad really, I'll admit.


----------



## Kiddo

I'd say 3-4 years would be my absolute max but I have nothing but respect for parents who continue longer. It's just not for me.


----------



## SparkleBug

When a child is old enough to do long division its pretty odd (my opinion) but really its a personal thing....if you feel its right, go with it. X


----------



## XJessicaX

Blah11 said:


> XJessicaX said:
> 
> 
> WOW, one person voted 'never acceptable!'....
> 
> I honestly think until the child can ask for it, or is feeding themselves 3 meals a day. I do see 2-3 year olds clambering over their mothers pulling at their tops and asking for booby which I think is a little old and especially as they are not using it for nutritional needs, more a comfort suck and then they hop off and run around with their friends again.
> 
> Where do you actually see this? Just that I am obviously very BF aware and have NEVER seen an older toddler do this in public (including my own) :shrug: At 2 and 3 years old the vast majority of BF toddlers have it once, maybe twice a day or a bit more if unwell. Its not like a baby where they ask for it every couple of hours.Click to expand...

In another post I said its because I am around a lot of friends and family members who breast feed. I can think of 4 women who I see occasionally who breast feed their older children. Two of the children are almost 2, one is 3 (next weekend) and one is 2.5 years I believe. The almost 3 yrold is probably the worst and she really does jump on her mother and she demands breast milk (if I visit for a couple of hours) up to about 6 times.


----------



## summer rain

midori1999 said:


> Clearly the health benefits continue well beyond when they can 'ask for it'. As for the comfort issue, why wouldn't you want to comfort your child is as many ways as possible? Why not, when they have hurt themselves, offr them something that has proven analgesic effects and, according to some toddlers is 'better than calpol'?
> 
> Bizarre that it's deemed OK by some to feed expressed milk, but not feed directly from the breast after a certain age, particularly as feeding directly from the breast offers more benefits for the child. To me, this is clearly down to societies' obsession with breasts as sexual objects and also the fact that as a society we seem to now want our children to grow up as fast as possible. As soon as they're born we want them to sleep alone, to STTN as fast as possible, to learn to self soothe, we want them to be independant as soon as possible. I find it very sad really, I'll admit.

I am very crap at expressing milk anyway, even though my son gains weight well and has a well above average number of wet and pooey nappies-I struggle to get an oz when expressing with any type of pump. Not everyone can express enough for one full feed in one go, in fact it is quite rare to be able to do this xx


----------



## cat lover

Its entirely personal choice, whether its 10 minutes or 10 years


----------



## Leopard

In my opinion there is no 'wrong' age to breastfeed up until. I have a friend who still breastfeeds her 6 year old daughter, some people ridicule her, but her daughter is healthy and happy, I see nothing wrong with it.

Personally I wouldn't go that old. I want to breastfeed DD until at least a year, if not two, I personally couldn't see myself going over that, but I won't make her fully wean until she wants to. I think each mother can make the choice which feels the most comfortable to them.


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## XJessicaX

wow! 6 years old! I do think that is very old to be breastfed, but each to their own!


----------



## TigerLady

First, I want to say I am impressed with the mom the original post referred to! It takes serious commitment and dedication to tandem nurse while pg. At this rate, she'll probably be BF all three! And to be open and honest about it to boot -- I really admire her bravery.

I tandem nurse and have for over a year now. Both my kids are still nursing. DS isn't far off from 2.5 years and DD is almost 16 months. You can see in my siggie that my DS is actually quite big and grown up for his age -- he wears size 5T! But I don't look at him and see a child too old to nurse, even if others might. 

As for asking for it -- all babies ask for it as has been said. As a matter of fact, my DS even OFFERS it! :haha: He actually climbed up in our rocking chair the other day, lifted his shirt to expose his nipples, looked at me and said "Want bite?" He calls it bite. Though I found that a bit strange at first, when I thought about it I actually found it funny and sweet. Basically, he finds great comfort in nursing. He feels loved. So, offering that same comfort and love to me was a way of expressing his love for me from his point of view. 

Despite the fact that he can ask for it, most people don't even know he is BF. As for the daycare argument, I can say my DS is the opposite. His teachers didn't even know he was BF until I had to point it out to him. They kept telling me he had loose poos, but he didn't... that's normal for him because he is BF. They were shocked to learn he was BF. 

None of my DD's teachers have ever expressed concern over not being able to comfort my DD because she is BF. A cuddle and a hug works fine for her. 

How long will I BF? I don't know. I'd like to get them until 2.5 because that is the earliest age of natural weaning for humans. After that, we'll see. It will depend on what the needs of the family are -- not just the BF kid, but the entire family. I don't mind using gentle weaning techniques if I feel it is best for the family.

As for how long others BF for? I don't care. That's a personal choice to be decided by each family.


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## emyandpotato

2 would be my personal limit and after 1.5 it'd probably be expressed milk but for others I think it's fine until the children themselves start to realise how the rest of society sees breasts. Like I don't think it's all that appropriate to BF a thirteen year old but 3 is fine.


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## LittleBoo

Who the hell chose "it's never acceptable to breastfeed"? :shock:


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## whit.

LittleBoo said:


> Who the hell chose "it's never acceptable to breastfeed"? :shock:

I promise it wasn't me. lol I was only joking when I said that.


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## Frooty

Whenever they're ready. But must admit does look weird 3-4 year old with a boob in their mouth also with a dummy or bottle too thats just me.


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## Tasha

Thank you for answering my question about expressing rather than taking from the breast, those that did. I find it really interesting so was reading up on it earlier, in cultures that follow infant led weaning, the average age of weaning is five.

I have only seen a child of about 3 BF once, he was extremely distressed and most likely ill cos we were at the doctors and so mum fed him, it calmed him almost instantly and I just thought wow, well done you.


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## indy and lara

Having taught 3 year olds in school nurseries I have to say that I have never come across a child who wanted to BF for comfort at this age.


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## tu123

For me personaly i would have been happy until preschool age-so 3.


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## Lydiarose

sorry random input!

i bf oscar for 4 months (various things prevented me doing it any longer that i wont go into) 

but i want to breastfeed this time again,could i express into a cup for oscar do drink,do you think he'd drink it? he'll be 21 months.


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## TigerLady

Lydiarose said:


> sorry random input!
> 
> i bf oscar for 4 months (various things prevented me doing it any longer that i wont go into)
> 
> but i want to breastfeed this time again,could i express into a cup for oscar do drink,do you think he'd drink it? he'll be 21 months.

Some toddlers do and some don't. It's worth a try. It will help his immunity if he likes it enough to drink a cup or so per day.


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## Tacey

Lydiarose said:


> sorry random input!
> 
> i bf oscar for 4 months (various things prevented me doing it any longer that i wont go into)
> 
> but i want to breastfeed this time again,could i express into a cup for oscar do drink,do you think he'd drink it? he'll be 21 months.

Definitely give it a try once your supply settles down. It would be really good for him.


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## HellBunny

Lydiarose said:


> sorry random input!
> 
> i bf oscar for 4 months (various things prevented me doing it any longer that i wont go into)
> 
> but i want to breastfeed this time again,could i express into a cup for oscar do drink,do you think he'd drink it? he'll be 21 months.

I'l be doing the same if he drinks it xx


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## Lydiarose

I really really want to,dan used to have it in his tea last time :rofl:

im definetly going to try and get some into his diet even if its in his food somehow.

I really do think it will be beneficial.

thanks girls! x


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## MonstHer

I picked the last one, 3-4 yrs old.
Especially for underdeveloped countries.
I would not chose to do this myself, but other cultures do this.
I'm in Japan and children often nurse for comfort until they are this age.
I wouldn't want to judge anyone on this.
Breast-feeding already has it's stigmas.


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## ashley2pink

Lydiarose said:


> sorry random input!
> 
> i bf oscar for 4 months (various things prevented me doing it any longer that i wont go into)
> 
> but i want to breastfeed this time again,could i express into a cup for oscar do drink,do you think he'd drink it? he'll be 21 months.

Hun, I give my 2 older kids my expressed breastmilk. They are 3 and 5 years old. I have to give it to them fresh but chilled. If I freeze it then thaw it gets that soapy-ish flavor because of the enzymes. It's still perfectly healthy, but they dont like the flavor. Not everybody's breastmilk does that when stored though.


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## Arisa

XJessicaX said:


> wow! 6 years old! I do think that is very old to be breastfed, but each to their own!

Yeah I agree and the person who said 10 years old?
Is their a limit? would you want your pre teen drinking breast milk?:nope:

In rare cases that has happened but possibly not nowadays, it was more common for children to breastfeed much older a few hundred years ago, or even less than a hundred years ago with world war one and two, where food was scarce. 

Its a bit different in an affluent country where food is not scarce and your child is eating three meals a day plus snacks, do they need breastmilk? as well as all the food and dairy they are getting??


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## Babushka99

I voted whenever the child is ready expecting to be one of very few and was pleasantly suprised by what I saw :)


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## Natsku

They don't _need_ breastmilk but its still highly beneficial. It really is a superfood. And more than just food. 
And the limit is already set by nature to not usually extend beyond 7 so thats still a long way off the teen years.


@anyone who plans on breastfeeding til their child self-weans - when do you think you'd stop nursing in public? I dunno if this is weird, but I kinda would want to feed in public when Maria is older, just to try and help normalise it as I think if more people did it then people wouldn't think it was weird.


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## TigerLady

I haven't NIP with Otter in aaaaaages. But that's mostly because he has been down to only a bedtime feed since he was 15 months old. The only other times he wants to nurse more is when he doesn't feel well, which is usually when we are home anyway. I think I _would_ NIP with him now, at 2.5, but only certain places and only for certain reasons. I would still NIP with my DD now, at almost 16 months, without a second thought. But, again, I don't because she only nurses at night now -- bed time and then all through the night. 

I agree that talking about BF a kid that is in his/her teen years is really just silly, tbh. ALL kids will naturally self wean and not want to BF anymore eventually. The LATER end of that age range is generally 7. The most common age range for that is 4, give or take a few months. So, almost NO kid would _naturally_ still be BF when going off to kindergarten. The rare exceptions would stop on their own sometime around 1st grade. So, talking about nursing high school students is just taking it to an unrealistic extreme and not really relevent imho.


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## midori1999

Arisa said:


> XJessicaX said:
> 
> 
> wow! 6 years old! I do think that is very old to be breastfed, but each to their own!
> 
> Yeah I agree and the person who said 10 years old?
> Is their a limit? would you want your pre teen drinking breast milk?:nope:
> 
> In rare cases that has happened but possibly not nowadays, it was more common for children to breastfeed much older a few hundred years ago, or even less than a hundred years ago with world war one and two, where food was scarce.
> 
> Its a bit different in an affluent country where food is not scarce and your child is eating three meals a day plus snacks, do they need breastmilk? as well as all the food and dairy they are getting??Click to expand...

So it's Ok for a child or pre teen to drink breastmilk from another species, designed for that other species (eg. cows) but it's not Ok for a child or pre teen to drink breastmilk from their own species? :wacko:

I think you might be suprised how many people do actually feed older children, it's just you don't see it and most people don't discuss it with others either, presumably partly at least down to the way people react to it. 

Not sure what you class as a 'pre teen', but it's really unlikely a child would actually be physically able to breastfeed past about 7 or 8, as when they start to lose their milk teeth their ability to latch and actually get milk goes. Ever wondered why they are called 'milk' teeth? 



Natsku said:


> They don't _need_ breastmilk but its still highly beneficial. It really is a superfood. And more than just food.
> And the limit is already set by nature to not usually extend beyond 7 so thats still a long way off the teen years.
> 
> 
> @anyone who plans on breastfeeding til their child self-weans - when do you think you'd stop nursing in public? I dunno if this is weird, but I kinda would want to feed in public when Maria is older, just to try and help normalise it as I think if more people did it then people wouldn't think it was weird.

I agree. I think the more people who do it the more normalised it will become. However, I don't think older children are likely to need to be fed in public, which is possibly one of the reasons it's not seen very often too. 

Personally, if my child needed to be fed, then I would feed them whatever age and wherever it was.


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## RaspberryK

For me I think I will stop sometime when my LO is between 2 and 3, (so I voted this category) but if others want to feed feed for longer then good on them.

For whoever said it is never acceptable to breastfeed I seriously hope it was a slip of the mouse and you clicked the wrong box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can not see how it is unacceptable to feed your baby in the way which nature intended and I have absolutely no idea how anyone can have a problem with breastfeeding a baby up to 6 months as before then they should only have milk. And where does milk come from? Booooooobs!

Rant over :flower:
x


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## Natsku

Yeah I suppose when they get older they only feed at bedtime anyway but I guess its possible if out and about they fall over or something and would want a comfort feed.


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## louandivy

I stopped breastfeeding last month as Ivy clearly wasn't interested anymore but I must admit, I surprised myself with how long I felt comfortable feeding her for as when I was an ignorant pregnant person I was convinced that I would quit at 6 months! Now my opinion has obviously completely changed and I think its completely insane that anyone would find a 3 year old breastfeeding weird. 

Personally I don't think I could deal with it beyond three as even at this age I was very ready to stop and have my body back but I think its very selfless and admirable that some mothers carry on for years and years until their child is really ready to stop, they certainly shouldn't be shamed for it.


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## Kel127

I breastfed Connor till he self-weaned at 16 months. I would have been happy to continue as long as he wanted, and that will be the same for this baby.
My husband asked me when I was going to stop when Connor was 6 months, because he had never been around breastfeeding women before. Even though he thought it was strange he fully supported my decision. Since Connor weaned he has been very sick 3 times, when he had never been sick previously. My husband nows tells me that I should feed our daughter as long as possible so that she doesn't get sick.


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## Lilly12

Wow can't believe 5 said 3-6 months.
And 14 said 6-9!

You know your boobs are made to feed your child.. Until your child doesn't need it no more (nutritients) so that's 12 months.
Why do 14 say 6-9 months ? 
I really don't get this.

My child will breastfeed until at least 1.. Probably longer than that.


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## Leopard

I'm saddened to see that someone put never acceptable. I hope they misread it or selected the wrong one :nope:


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## ashley2pink

Lilly12 said:


> Wow can't believe 5 said 3-6 months.
> And 14 said 6-9!
> 
> You know your boobs are made to feed your child.. Until your child doesn't need it no more (nutritients) so that's 12 months.
> Why do 14 say 6-9 months ?
> I really don't get this.
> 
> My child will breastfeed until at least 1.. Probably longer than that.

Exactly. If this had been a hundred years ago, then what would those who thought 3-6 months or 6-9 months have fed their baby at that point? And more importantly WHY do they think its unacceptable to breastfeed a baby? That is what breasts are for.
So I'm guessing they all think at some point all babies should have formula, because that's what you would have to give if you weaned before 1 year:shrug:. I'm just flabbergasted there are mothers out there who think breastmilk stops being okay at some point, particularly those who chose before 1 year.


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## feedindy

> So I'm guessing they all think at some point all babies should have formula, because that's what you would have to give if you weaned before 1 year:shrug:. I'm just flabbergasted there are mothers out there who think breastmilk stops being okay at some point, particularly those who chose before 1 year.

I think you are right about some people thinking that at some point all babies get formula. My dad asked me last month when we were going to start formula, like it was the natural next step. He has never been around breastfeeding women before, as my mom never BF'd, neither did my sisters for their kids. 

As a side note, my dad now thinks everything that my LO does that is good must be because of BF. He says that my LO must be a good napper because of breastfeeding. :haha: He is so silly.

I think that maybe those people who pick not acceptable or just a few months must not have been exposed to BF a lot. Surely it should be acceptable at least for one year.


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## Arisa

for me its not a question of being acceptable or non acceptable, off course it should be accepted, its a womans right to choose and to feed her baby in public and people do not like it then they can shove off basically. I know BFing is natural and good for baby, its just something that terrifies me to a degree. I have not been around breast feeding mothers, well not around any mothers who liked breast feeding, they all hated it due to infections, demand feeds and so on.

I do not think women should be vilified for formula feeding babies though if they choose to


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## krissy1984

I find it really sad that people think formula or cows milk should replace breastmilk. neither come dveb remotely close to being as good as bm, i still feed Kellan 3-4 times a day and tbh i prefer him having it then water. he can selfwean when he chooses too, although after 3-4 id give it in a sippy cup.

To the person who said never acceptable shame on you if it wasn't a mistake. your body produces milk when your pregnant, that should tell u everything u need tl know about what is best.

Fair enough if u want to formula feed but don't look down on others for bf their children for As long as they need it.


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## Ashley8806

Ok I just have to say something. Those of you who are arguing about people that shouldn't replace breastmilk with formula or cows milk, etc.... you are upset because some people don't feel comfortable with breastfeeding, even though they didn't say anything, just voted.... yet you are quick to judge those who formula feed or replace breast milk with cows milk at 1. I am a breastfeeding mother, but at the same time I dont plan on breastfeeding past 6 months to 1 year old. After 1 year, she will get whole COWS milk. Yes, I said it, and no I'm not ashamed. When I look around me, I see the majority of people I know formula feeding their children. My daughter was combi fed until 4 months, then completely FF fed. My new LO was exclusively BF for a month, and now gets one bottle of formula a day due to growth issues. I was completely formula fed. Out of 6 of my close friends, 2 gave breastfeeding a try and made it a month or so, then switched to formula. One made it to a year, by pumping and combi feeding with formula. No actual breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is rarely done in public here. Yes, I look, and there aren't even people carrying their babies in wraps. Carseats, strollers, and shopping carts. I have seen a few breastfeed in their cars, including myself, but that's about it. So lately when I come to this site for support or to read on with fellow breastfeeders, I start to feel crappy about myself becuase I'm not "exclusively" breastfeeding, or I don't choose to breastfeed past 6 months or a year. But when I look around me, I feel proud of what I have accomplished so far and if I make it to 6 months or a year I will be even more proud. I just really don't like coming on here and being made to feel like I am doing something wrong, or am not good enough, because so many people are so anti-formula on here or anti-cows milk. Maybe I just shouldn't come back on here, I don't know, but I really just wish people wouldn't judge or criticize others for how they feed their baby. :(

This might not make much sense, but I'm tired lol. Rant over.


----------



## ashley2pink

feedindy said:


> So I'm guessing they all think at some point all babies should have formula, because that's what you would have to give if you weaned before 1 year:shrug:. I'm just flabbergasted there are mothers out there who think breastmilk stops being okay at some point, particularly those who chose before 1 year.
> 
> I think you are right about some people thinking that at some point all babies get formula. My dad asked me last month when we were going to start formula, like it was the natural next step. He has never been around breastfeeding women before, as my mom never BF'd, neither did my sisters for their kids.
> 
> As a side note, my dad now thinks everything that my LO does that is good must be because of BF. He says that my LO must be a good napper because of breastfeeding. :haha: He is so silly.
> 
> I think that maybe those people who pick not acceptable or just a few months must not have been exposed to BF a lot. Surely it should be acceptable at least for one year.Click to expand...

Hahaha, Dad's are funny!

Yes, I think those would be the ones who chose no bf'ing or only up to 6 months or 9 months, but I would think that would be for them. I'm hoping that's what they meant. That they personally would only bf up to that point. I don't know, I just don't get why someone would think it's unacceptable for someone else to bf past a few months. And there were quite a few who thought this.


----------



## Arisa

Ashley8806 said:


> Ok I just have to say something. Those of you who are arguing about people that shouldn't replace breastmilk with formula or cows milk, etc.... you are upset because some people don't feel comfortable with breastfeeding, even though they didn't say anything, just voted.... yet you are quick to judge those who formula feed or replace breast milk with cows milk at 1. I am a breastfeeding mother, but at the same time I dont plan on breastfeeding past 6 months to 1 year old. After 1 year, she will get whole COWS milk. Yes, I said it, and no I'm not ashamed. When I look around me, I see the majority of people I know formula feeding their children. My daughter was combi fed until 4 months, then completely FF fed. My new LO was exclusively BF for a month, and now gets one bottle of formula a day due to growth issues. I was completely formula fed. Out of 6 of my close friends, 2 gave breastfeeding a try and made it a month or so, then switched to formula. One made it to a year, by pumping and combi feeding with formula. No actual breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is rarely done in public here. Yes, I look, and there aren't even people carrying their babies in wraps. Carseats, strollers, and shopping carts. I have seen a few breastfeed in their cars, including myself, but that's about it. So lately when I come to this site for support or to read on with fellow breastfeeders, I start to feel crappy about myself becuase I'm not "exclusively" breastfeeding, or I don't choose to breastfeed past 6 months or a year. But when I look around me, I feel proud of what I have accomplished so far and if I make it to 6 months or a year I will be even more proud. I just really don't like coming on here and being made to feel like I am doing something wrong, or am not good enough, because so many people are so anti-formula on here or anti-cows milk. Maybe I just shouldn't come back on here, I don't know, but I really just wish people wouldn't judge or criticize others for how they feed their baby. :(
> 
> This might not make much sense, but I'm tired lol. Rant over.

:hugs: I agree:hugs: Why are women judged yet again by other women for choosing to formula feed? I understand you guys getting really upset with comments against breastfeeding, but why is it okay to down people who chose the 3-6 month option or the 6-9 month one? What is so bad with formula and cows milk when they are old enough?

It does sound very old fashioned and judgmental :(


----------



## lisaf

a) I think the person who clicked on 'never' was trying to wind us up :haha:

b) I don't think people mean to 'judge' others. I think its more a sadness that our society is not accepting of it. I don't think ill of women who succumb to societal pressure to stop early or who don't feel comfortable. I see it as a sign that we have made it abnormal and that is a shame and something that is wrong with our society.

There are times when formula saves a child's life. And there are times when BFing is ridiculously hard for some women (and it IS a woman's right to choose based on her own circumstances etc). But one reason its so hard is due to lack of proper knowledge and support and that happened because we stopped BFing for so long a whole generation of knowledge was lost. I had lots of struggles and wouldn't blame anyone for quitting with what I was dealing with, but I stuck with it and to me it was REALLY worth it, not just for the health benefits to my LO but for the convenience, cost savings, and health benefits to me too (did you know it can reduce the chance of breast cancer?). 

I dunno, not trying to make it a debate here, but I've been on the side of feeling defensive because I thought I'd have to FF because of a medication conflict. I felt horrible like I wasn't sacrificing enough by going without the medication to provide milk even though that would have been unreasonable. But I also know that it was a lot in my own head and my own blame/guilt talking, not other people's opinions.


----------



## krissy1984

Im not judging anyone but the question was how long do you think is acceptable to bf a child not necessarily your own and so if some people think that its only acceptable to 6 or 9 months i do find that silly. i don't care if u formula feed or whatever as long as ur baby gets milk but i do find it quite sad that some people find it unacceptable for any child to be fed longer than that.


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## Tor

I voted 1 to 2 years although really it would be closer to the 12 month mark than 2 years IMO.


----------



## Lauki

Ashley8806 said:


> Ok I just have to say something. Those of you who are arguing about people that shouldn't replace breastmilk with formula or cows milk, etc.... you are upset because some people don't feel comfortable with breastfeeding, even though they didn't say anything, just voted.... yet you are quick to judge those who formula feed or replace breast milk with cows milk at 1. I am a breastfeeding mother, but at the same time I dont plan on breastfeeding past 6 months to 1 year old. After 1 year, she will get whole COWS milk. Yes, I said it, and no I'm not ashamed. When I look around me, I see the majority of people I know formula feeding their children. My daughter was combi fed until 4 months, then completely FF fed. My new LO was exclusively BF for a month, and now gets one bottle of formula a day due to growth issues. I was completely formula fed. Out of 6 of my close friends, 2 gave breastfeeding a try and made it a month or so, then switched to formula. One made it to a year, by pumping and combi feeding with formula. No actual breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is rarely done in public here. Yes, I look, and there aren't even people carrying their babies in wraps. Carseats, strollers, and shopping carts. I have seen a few breastfeed in their cars, including myself, but that's about it. So lately when I come to this site for support or to read on with fellow breastfeeders, I start to feel crappy about myself becuase I'm not "exclusively" breastfeeding, or I don't choose to breastfeed past 6 months or a year. But when I look around me, I feel proud of what I have accomplished so far and if I make it to 6 months or a year I will be even more proud. I just really don't like coming on here and being made to feel like I am doing something wrong, or am not good enough, because so many people are so anti-formula on here or anti-cows milk. Maybe I just shouldn't come back on here, I don't know, but I really just wish people wouldn't judge or criticize others for how they feed their baby. :(
> 
> This might not make much sense, but I'm tired lol. Rant over.

I think the question in this poll is about how long you find it 'acceptable' for other mums to breastfeed. It's not: 'How long should every single mother breastfeed without 1 drop of formula'.

Surely most people agree that it's best to feed while both Mum and Baby are happy with it. If you choose to switch to formula at 6 months or at 1 year, that's perfectly fine. It's not that people judge that people _want_ to replace breastmilk by that age, but that there are people that think you _have_ to replace breastmilk by a certain age.

It's just sad that some people don't find it acceptable for _other_ mums to feed after 6 months or something, eventhough these mums clearly are still comfortable with it.

I couldn't care how long and if at all anyone breastfeeds, as long as they feed their baby appropriate food!


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## XJessicaX

^ 'I think the question in this poll is about how long you find it 'acceptable' for other mums to breastfeed. It's not: 'How long should every single mother breastfeed without 1 drop of formula'.

Well said, hopefully the thread can get back on track. I was starting to wonder whether ONCE AGAIN we would dissolve into a bickering row over BF vs FF! lol.


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## mummy2be...

^ I'd put money on this turning nasty eventually .....


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## Ashley8806

I know that its asking how long we find it acceptable and for me I would still say a year. Personally if I saw a mother breastfeeding her three year old I would feel a bit uncomfortable. That's just me and my culture around me so more power to those who choose to go longer, but I still stick with my previous answer. I would never say anything or 
Make anyone feel bad no matter how uncomfortable I was though I respect everyones choices. : flower:


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## Cat_pj

I originally thought 6-9 months. But here I am 11 months next week and no intention to stop now. I put 1-2 years but who knows, I'm sure I could change my mind when MY child is that age. I don't think you really know until you get there. People are already asking me when I'm going to stop, I told my mum 16 months just to placate her. When the time comes I'll have to see how we both (LO and I) feel about it.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

These threads always turn nasty, regardless of the original intent. 

There are going to be people that think it's wrong to BF past six months and there are going to be people that think it's fine to BF as long as the child wants. Can't we just get over that people parent differently?


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## Tasha

Yeah I think the comments about under are a year is because the question is when is it acceptable to, not when will you bf to, so my people voting for ages under one it points towards people BF under one are some how doing something unacceptable. 

And the references about cows milk are not because people are against it, they probably drink it themselves and at some point their children may too. It is simply because some said about cows milk being real milk, this implies that breast milk is not real milk.

Any way, I have been reading cos I find it so interesting. In cultures that follow infant-led weaning, the average age for weaning is five years old, the first five years of life is when 96% of brain growth occurs. I just think it is very clever how our bodies connect everything, like the brain growth, when immunity begins to become more built up, losing the milk teeth and when weaning from BF happens. Amazing are our bodies :thumbup:


----------



## Brookey

just a thought - maybe the person who selected "never" misread the question. because it says what age is it acceptable to breastfeed a CHILD, not baby. maybe the person thinks breastfeeding a baby is fine but doesnt like the idea of feeding a CHILD so selected never.

I dont know, maybe not but just trying to think of a reason why (just re-read that and it really sounds like im trying to justify myself...it wasnt me i promise!!! ):haha::haha::haha:

i am breastfeeding but dont think I will personally go past 9 months. but thats just me....doesnt make me any less of a mother. 

I really dont like the "holier than thou" attitude that some extended breastfeeders give off (not saying anyone on here btw but i have met some personally). just because you are happy to carry on past 1 year it doesnt mean that others are.

i dont think there is an "acceptable" age really. i think it differs from woman to woman and i think whatever age you decide to breastfeed until is acceptable.:flower:


----------



## Itsychik

Ashley8806 said:


> Ok I just have to say something. Those of you who are arguing about people that shouldn't replace breastmilk with formula or cows milk, etc.... you are upset because some people don't feel comfortable with breastfeeding, even though they didn't say anything, just voted.... yet you are quick to judge those who formula feed or replace breast milk with cows milk at 1. I am a breastfeeding mother, but at the same time I dont plan on breastfeeding past 6 months to 1 year old. After 1 year, she will get whole COWS milk. Yes, I said it, and no I'm not ashamed. When I look around me, I see the majority of people I know formula feeding their children. My daughter was combi fed until 4 months, then completely FF fed. My new LO was exclusively BF for a month, and now gets one bottle of formula a day due to growth issues. I was completely formula fed. Out of 6 of my close friends, 2 gave breastfeeding a try and made it a month or so, then switched to formula. One made it to a year, by pumping and combi feeding with formula. No actual breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is rarely done in public here. Yes, I look, and there aren't even people carrying their babies in wraps. Carseats, strollers, and shopping carts. I have seen a few breastfeed in their cars, including myself, but that's about it. So lately when I come to this site for support or to read on with fellow breastfeeders, I start to feel crappy about myself becuase I'm not "exclusively" breastfeeding, or I don't choose to breastfeed past 6 months or a year. But when I look around me, I feel proud of what I have accomplished so far and if I make it to 6 months or a year I will be even more proud. I just really don't like coming on here and being made to feel like I am doing something wrong, or am not good enough, because so many people are so anti-formula on here or anti-cows milk. Maybe I just shouldn't come back on here, I don't know, but I really just wish people wouldn't judge or criticize others for how they feed their baby. :(
> 
> This might not make much sense, but I'm tired lol. Rant over.


Several people have already replied, but I wanted to add that I don't think anyone has been judgemental at all. Most of the comments (as already stated) are saddened by the fact that people think you HAVE to or SHOULD switch to formula or cows milk after a certain time (whether that be 6 months, 1 year, etc). :flower:

I think the reason so many of these threads turn nasty is because there is often someone out there, just waiting to be offended by something said (whether or not that was the intention of the OP). I think this thread is doing a really good job of just expressing opinions though without making any personal attacks :thumbup:


----------



## Ashley8806

Yes it has been pretty clean and I by far don't want to be the cause of a nasty debate lol just that even though there may not be personal attacks some comments made can be offensive whether they are meant to be or not. But it is a poll asking for opinions and some are personally bashing those who put their honest opinion (not including the never acceptable lol)


----------



## Leopard

Ashley8806 said:


> Yes it has been pretty clean and I by far don't want to be the cause of a nasty debate lol just that even though there may not be personal attacks some comments made can be offensive whether they are meant to be or not. But it is a poll asking for opinions and some are personally bashing those who put their honest opinion (not including the never acceptable lol)

Hey sweety, this question is in regard to that ginormous post you made haha:)
With the whole cows milk you will be/have already put your LOs on, do you use actual cows milk, like straight from the farm, or do you use shop-sold? I'm thinking that when DD eventually weans off breastfeeding (whenever that is) instead of letting her drink store bought, I'll have her on direct from the farm. That is if she isn't intolerant. Just curious as to which way you will go?


----------



## Lilly12

Why are the only ones that always feel judged are the ones who formula feed, reading a breastfeed topic?
You obviously feel guilty or less of a mother. Others aren't making you feel this way, it's already within you.

This topic has been very clean, no attacks, just opinions. Yet somebody has to feel attacked again because people say that breasts are made for babies to eat from, and that it's only natural to feed until 12 months.
Why would you feel offended?

Breastmilk is best for a child.. Maybe not for a mom but it is for a child.
So if all is going fine why switch to formula ? < I think that is what people were saying.
Not "oh you're a bad mother cause you formula feed"


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## bumpy_j

Wonder why anyone that's voted for 3-6 or 6-9 hasn't commented on here, would be interesting to hear why and what their opinion is for longer! Otherwise it's not much of a debate


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## Ozzieshunni

It could be a comfort issue for some. Some are not comfortable feeding past the age when a child can walk or talk or has teeth. Like someone said before, it's all about PERSONAL preference. It shouldn't be anyone else's decision but the mother. Who are we to judge?


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## bumpy_j

Not to judge but it's a very one sided discussion at the moment, like people are afraid to express their opinion. Which is a shame.


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## Ozzieshunni

bumpy_j said:


> Not to judge but it's a very one sided discussion at the moment, like people are afraid to express their opinion. Which is a shame.

I totally agree. While it's my opinion that I want to BF as long as Alex wants, I know there are mothers out there that hate BFing and want to just go on for maybe six months or less. I think previous discussions have scared people away from expressing what they truly believe.


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## Lilly12

Yea but this topic is about what they find acceptable, not their reason for not breastfeeding/breastfeeding past 3-6 months.


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## Ozzieshunni

That's not what I meant. What if someone came in here and said it wasn't acceptable to BF past 3 months? What would be the reaction?


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## LittleBoo

I put 9-12 months, not because it makes me feel uncomfortable past that, or that I think breastmilk has no nutritional value past this time, simply because I wouldn't have my child drinking from a teat (bottle) at that age, or a breast. Obviously, everyone has their own limit on when they want their children to wean from teats, 9-12 months is mine.


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## Frooty

Maybe the person who clicked never just doesn't like the thought of bfing and if they don't then who cares? Its their opinion.


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## mummy2lola

Lilly12 said:


> Why are the only ones that always feel judged are the ones who formula feed, reading a breastfeed topic?
> You obviously feel guilty or less of a mother. Others aren't making you feel this way, it's already within you.
> 
> This topic has been very clean, no attacks, just opinions. Yet somebody has to feel attacked again because people say that breasts are made for babies to eat from, and that it's only natural to feed until 12 months.
> Why would you feel offended?
> 
> Breastmilk is best for a child.. Maybe not for a mom but it is for a child.
> So if all is going fine why switch to formula ? < I think that is what people were saying.
> Not "oh you're a bad mother cause you formula feed"

this is why these threads turn nasty because someone comes on saying that formula feeders obviously feel guilty.I certainly don't feel guilty about my choice and to me this subject is all very one sided at the moment as formula feeders are to scared to voice their opinions as they get battered down by breastfeeders that give ur kind of comment.breastfeeders are instantly attacking people who put 3-6months but didn't comment by calling them cowards and things.I think people r just sick of the same old argument and last time this kind of thread started people who did say how they felt about extended bf'in got bullied out of the thread.there's always one side that gets offended wether it b a ffer being told they feel guilty for not bf'in or a bfer being told they bf for to long.is it the same argument then by saying they clearly know it's to long to bf and feel guilty that they still do it when it's not neccersary? If one person gets defensive of there decision I'm sure it's not always from guilt


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## KatieB

^^ I must admit the comment made about FF mums feeling guilty (when this thread was admittedly "clean") is a bit of a sweeping generalisation.

Oh and for what it's worth (probably not much) but I think it's acceptable to carry on bf for as long as both mum and baby/child want. I thought the picture in the thread the OP linked was beautiful xx


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## freckleonear

LittleBoo said:


> I put 9-12 months, not because it makes me feel uncomfortable past that, or that I think breastmilk has no nutritional value past this time, simply because I wouldn't have my child drinking from a teat (bottle) at that age, or a breast. Obviously, everyone has their own limit on when they want their children to wean from teats, 9-12 months is mine.

Interesting. :) Obviously before bottles were common or in other cultures then it wouldn't have even crossed people's minds that there should be a cut off point at 12 months . As I've mentioned before, the recommendation to wean off bottles by 1 year is due to health risks, but of course that doesn't apply to breastfeeding. I wonder why society as a whole seems to view breastfeeding by formula feeding standards?


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## Hayley90

i clicked 1-2 years, but thats because ive never seen a child BF beyond that point (or much further than 2 years) and i know that i wouldnt want a child drinking from a bottle/teat/breast at that age, if they were my child. 

ive never seen anything different, but im not really phased tbh. x


----------



## midori1999

mummy2lola said:


> Lilly12 said:
> 
> 
> Why are the only ones that always feel judged are the ones who formula feed, reading a breastfeed topic?
> You obviously feel guilty or less of a mother. Others aren't making you feel this way, it's already within you.
> 
> This topic has been very clean, no attacks, just opinions. Yet somebody has to feel attacked again because people say that breasts are made for babies to eat from, and that it's only natural to feed until 12 months.
> Why would you feel offended?
> 
> Breastmilk is best for a child.. Maybe not for a mom but it is for a child.
> So if all is going fine why switch to formula ? < I think that is what people were saying.
> Not "oh you're a bad mother cause you formula feed"
> 
> this is why these threads turn nasty because someone comes on saying that formula feeders obviously feel guilty.I certainly don't feel guilty about my choice and to me this subject is all very one sided at the moment as formula feeders are to scared to voice their opinions as they get battered down by breastfeeders that give ur kind of comment.breastfeeders are instantly attacking people who put 3-6months but didn't comment by calling them cowards and things.I think people r just sick of the same old argument and last time this kind of thread started people who did say how they felt about extended bf'in got bullied out of the thread.there's always one side that gets offended wether it b a ffer being told they feel guilty for not bf'in or a bfer being told they bf for to long.is it the same argument then by saying they clearly know it's to long to bf and feel guilty that they still do it when it's not neccersary? If one person gets defensive of there decision I'm sure it's not always from guiltClick to expand...

I agree it's wrong to say everyone's opinions are formed because of guilt. However, I don't see anyone being 'attacked' on this thread, just a discussion going on. 

I am always interested in why people (and it's not just people who FF, it's people who BF too!) think that BF should end at 3 months, 6 months or a year or whatever, especially as the guidelines are 'at least two years and beyond'. Even medical professionals are pitifully uninformed, probably because BF rates are so low, so women who BF are pretty outnumbered by those who FF and so FF is 'the norm' and as freckleonear has said, it's interesting how things are just by FF standards. Formula is a product to provide infant nutrition, it doesn't provide any health benefits, so it is easily replaced by cows milk, which after a certain age will give adequate nutrition as part of a balanced diet. Breastmilk not only does that, but has health benefits for Mother and Child too.


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## freckleonear

To those that wouldn't want their children drinking from a bottle at that age, can I ask in what way you think a breast is the same?


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## ellie

I also don;t think its fair to say that "breastfeeders batter people down", now whats that if not a massive sweeping generalisation??? :dohh:

i've voted whenever, since I can't envisage a specific date/age where it would suddenly become unacceptable for me. I love seeing older babies being breastfed and obviously my son's now 2 :cloud9: I do accept totally that others find it less so - their perogative, as long as theyre aware its purely socially influenced - but I cant understand why that has to be narrowed down to a certain age - why, for example, is it ok if a baby is 5 months and 3 weeks and 6 days and the following day it suddenly isnt....? I genuinely dont get that. My SIL stopped bfing both hers on their 1st birthday - her choice, neither boy seemed too upset by it, but I could never get with that way of doing it myself! 

I'm also aware that some might find it 'wierd' or odd or unacceptable that I'm still bfing a 2 year old. I probbaly would have too, at some stage before I had him. But he's not suddenly a massive toddler overnight, he's grown into it very gradually from being a teeny baby. He only feeds at bedtime/nighttime, never in public these days, and only in the daytime when he's ill, so most people don't even know. ALthough, I don't actually care too much what others think about it, so that wouldnt be a reason either :wink:

I also know that we're both getting great benefits from it, so really I can't find any reasons to stop :)

I must admit though, I feel uneasy if I see a 2 year old still having a bottle, but I think (though I'm not too knowledgeable on bottles) its advised to stop them at 1 because of dental issues, is that right? So they wouldnt be comparable anyway since the WHO guidelines for bfing are at least 2 years?


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## Lauki

Maybe for one thread we could all refrain from saying 'All Formula feeders feel guilty' and 'All breastfeeding mums feel better than Formula feeders and batter them down'.
Then we could have a good conversation/discussion about what people find 'acceptable' and why.

Personally I would be very interested in reading why people stof breastfeeding at a certain age before the baby/child self weans, but also why people choose to breastfeed until 4-5 years. I only have my own 5 months of experience with breastfeeding and am just interested in why people make their choices.

I just don't understand the need for all the generalisation people have to keep making on these kind of threads.

Sure there's mums that FF that feel guilty, there's BF mums that feel like they're better than others. But I think for most mums this isn't true.

Just because someone says they don't understand why someone would stop at a certain age and gives their reasoning as to why they don't understand this, isn't the same as them telling they think those mums are bad mums or make the wrong choices.


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## jaytee146

I'm shooting for 2 or 3.. I know that as long as I continue to make milk for my lo... I'm not stopping before 12 months. 

If someone wants to go longer hey that's them... I feel like if we as parents or adults focus on our own situations then we wouldn't have time to deam something unacceptable. I remember watching a intereting episode of a tv show called Taboo which featured a bfing mother of her 4 or 5 year old son. I thought hey as long as the child has no issues with bfing and the mother is okay then do what feels right for both you and your child.

like a pp said in another thread.. we all have different parenting styles and opinions, we don't have to bash someone becasue they think of feel differently than we do.


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## Ashley8806

Lilly12 said:


> Why are the only ones that always feel judged are the ones who formula feed, reading a breastfeed topic?
> You obviously feel guilty or less of a mother. Others aren't making you feel this way, it's already within you.
> 
> This topic has been very clean, no attacks, just opinions. Yet somebody has to feel attacked again because people say that breasts are made for babies to eat from, and that it's only natural to feed until 12 months.
> Why would you feel offended?
> 
> Breastmilk is best for a child.. Maybe not for a mom but it is for a child.
> So if all is going fine why switch to formula ? < I think that is what people were saying.
> Not "oh you're a bad mother cause you formula feed"

This was an example of the rude attitude I was referring ti. I in no way feel guilty about giving my daughter one bottle of formula a day.but attitudes that those who exclusively breastfeed are more superior to those who ff are getting really old


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## Lauki

Before that one post there was no posts anything like that though.
There was no attacking any Formula feeders or anyone personally..


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## Ashley8806

Leopard said:


> Ashley8806 said:
> 
> 
> Yes it has been pretty clean and I by far don't want to be the cause of a nasty debate lol just that even though there may not be personal attacks some comments made can be offensive whether they are meant to be or not. But it is a poll asking for opinions and some are personally bashing those who put their honest opinion (not including the never acceptable lol)
> 
> Hey sweety, this question is in regard to that ginormous post you made haha:)
> With the whole cows milk you will be/have already put your LOs on, do you use actual cows milk, like straight from the farm, or do you use shop-sold? I'm thinking that when DD eventually weans off breastfeeding (whenever that is) instead of letting her drink store bought, I'll have her on direct from the farm. That is if she isn't intolerant. Just curious as to which way you will go?Click to expand...

Hi hun we will be buying store bought but if all possible organic :)


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## XJessicaX

omg....ffs! There is a WHOLE thread that only just finished this week on this argument.

Do we really have to go through it again?

Cant we just have a sticky thread called 'FF vs BF, bash it out'.....then everyone who wants to argue over it could rant on and on for a million pages and leave the other threads clear of it!


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## Ashley8806

Lauki said:


> Before that one post there was no posts anything like that though.
> There was no attacking any Formula feeders or anyone personally..

Yes people were making comments on those that chose under a year for an option. You guys want to hear from them but if I chose one of those and saw those comments I wouldn't speak either. 

I believe im leaving this thread im not trying to argue and don't want to I just wish people would open their minds and be a bit more respectful of others opinions whether they agree or not.


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## KatieB

ellie said:


> I also don;t think its fair to say that "breastfeeders batter people down", now whats that if not a massive sweeping generalisation??? :dohh:

I agree but in all fairness this comment by a poster was in response to another post which clearly got her back up. All too many sweeping generalisations, yes, which make threads like this tit for tat (pardon the pun).


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## cat lover

I agree that we should all be accepting of other peoples opinions (within the boundaries of safe parenting of course). Other people can BF as long as they want to, for me personally I will probably BF for about 9 months. 

Would I BF a toddler? No. Do I mind others doing so? No.


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## 9babiesgone

Oh dear me. I only b reastfed my son for 4 months bc. I got masititis. But I would have loved to do it till 2 or 3 . I think whatever age the mom and child feel is good, is good to me, and if anyone judges them well I think that is awful silly and this is coming from someone who didn't breastfeed her first child at all.


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## TigerLady

3 comments:

1) Getting back to "acceptable" -- I have also found that people seem to think it UNacceptable to extended BF a boy before they do a girl. For my DS, people started questioning it shortly after he turned 1. They seem to be more tolerant of my DD feeding past 1. I think that says a lot about the over sexualization of a women's boobs. They seem to think it will be psychologically damaging to my DS to continue to suck on his mother's boobs. 

2) I think THAT speaks to the real reason many people find a certain age unacceptable. Maybe not all, but many. They think it somehow starts to cross the line from nutrition/comfort to comfort/sexual. When I have really questioned people that said, "Isn't he a bit old?" I find they tend to say "It's weird." or "It's not right." and when I really dig and point out that it is natural, they come to realize they feel it weird or not right because they think it has somehow taken on sexual overtones. 

Of course, that isn't true. But women's boob are SOOOOOOOO about beauty and sexuality in Western culture that it hard to separate sex and food when it comes to boobs. And as the child starts to look more child and less baby, that sex connection seems to become larger in many people's head. I don't think they do it purposely, it is just a generalization from their culture.

3) Regarding why is it okay one day and not the next (say 5 months 3 weeks 6 days and not the next day). I think my 14 yo niece said it best. My mom was giving me a REALLY hard time about "cutting him off on his second birthday" with BF my DS. The week before his second birthday she said, "He's done with that next Wednesday, right?" In a pointed way that made it clear she was demanding it. My niece's response: "That's not a very nice birthday present!" 

:rofl: I loved that. She made a very good point! Saying "Happy Birthday! You can no longer have this very important thing." would just be mean!


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## feedindy

I think "acceptable" up to a year, so I selected 9-12 months. I feel like it should be acceptable by everyone until the child is 1 year old. I personally don't feel comfortable with extended BF, either doing it myself or seeing an older child do it. That being said, if I saw someone BF a child over 1 year, I'd mind my own business. I wouldn't want anyone to lecture me on why I choose to stop BF at age 1, so I would never ever intrude on someone else's beliefs. I can just look away if it doesn't feel comfortable for me.


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## mum22ttc#3

Like I said in my first post I formula feed all 3 of my girls from the beginning, this was my choice and for my reasons and have never felt that I have had to justify my self to anyone else, nor will I ever try to as like I say MY choice. But I do have to say that I haven't felt judged or slated or whatever else you want to call it by reading this thread from a formula feeding perspective. :thumbup: I know there was a comment about all formula feeders feeling guilty but I'm just assuming this was either worded badly or else very naive. For the record I don't feel guilty in the slightest. :flower:

I seriously think people are mis-reading the question, it is asking what age is 'unacceptable' not what age you should or should not carry on to iyswim? Even though I formula feed I would never look at a mum BF her 1 year old and think that what she was doing is unacceptable, thats just absurd IMO. I was giving a bottle to LO up till she was one. :dohh:

Ok I might look at a mum feeding her 6 year old and I might feel uncomfortable by it, but they are my issues. That doesn't make it unacceptable or wrong though, it just means that we have different parenting ways. Like I said I don't think there should be an unacceptable age in any parenting ways, unless it is harming the baby/child. :flower:


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## hot tea

Whatever age both the mother and child are comfortable. I breastfed my eldest until three years and three months old. This one I will breastfeed for as long as he wants as well, NO exceptions.


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## hot tea

mum22ttc#3 said:


> Like I said in my first post I formula feed all 3 of my girls from the beginning, this was my choice and for my reasons and have never felt that I have had to justify my self to anyone else, nor will I ever try to as like I say MY choice. But I do have to say that I haven't felt judged or slated or whatever else you want to call it by reading this thread from a formula feeding perspective. :thumbup: I know there was a comment about all formula feeders feeling guilty but I'm just assuming this was either worded badly or else very naive. For the record I don't feel guilty in the slightest. :flower:
> 
> I seriously think people are mis-reading the question, it is asking what age is 'unacceptable' not what age you should or should not carry on to iyswim? Even though I formula feed I would never look at a mum BF her 1 year old and think that what she was doing is unacceptable, thats just absurd IMO. I was giving a bottle to LO up till she was one. :dohh:
> 
> Ok I might look at a mum feeding her 6 year old and I might feel uncomfortable by it, but they are my issues. That doesn't make it unacceptable or wrong though, it just means that we have different parenting ways. Like I said I don't think there should be an unacceptable age in any parenting ways, unless it is harming the baby/child. :flower:

Totally agree, so well said!!


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## midori1999

I think maybe some people are getting confused about what people are saying and that is the reason some people have taken offense to be honest. 

No-one is saying it's not OK for some people to BF only until 3, 6, 9 months or whatever and feel that for them, that is the age they feel is acceptable for them, but surely it's as wrong for those people who only want to BF for 3 months (for example) to say it's only acceptable for _everyone else _to BF for 3 months, just as it's not OK for someone like me, who plans to let my LO self wean, to say that it's unacceptable for anyone to wean before the child is ready? 

I'd be interested though, tbh, in the reasons people have chosen 9 months as the age it is acceptable to, or the age they want to BF to. Purely because by then BF is usually pretty easy/not especially limiting and it then means you have to start making formula up, whereas in another few months you can switch straight to cows milk? (not a critiscism, just a genuine question)


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## tina3747

I think before school age is my personal opinion. I wouldn't want to bf my child for that long but that's me. I didn't realise how many extended bfers there were till being on the Internet looking up a video on YouTube, I suppose you don't see it around that much. For it to be socially more acceptable more people need to do it in public and you might not find many people that willing. I think by that age most are doing out of habit and comfort rather than the need but if mums happy with that then whatever. 
I must confess I didn't like to see the 8 yr old bf on the programme everone has seen.. It goes more into my uncomfortable zone. I think my attitude has changed since being on b&b on bf . Before I thought around 1 was 'acceptable' to wean, looking at the bfmums who go on longer then fair play. There's far worse things than breast feeding your4 yr old you can be doing to children in the world to make me not care less what age they are


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## Windmills

Genuinely shocked by the number who said under 1. Even more so the ones who said under 3 months and not at all!


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## freckleonear

midori1999 said:


> I'd be interested though, tbh, in the reasons people have chosen 9 months as the age it is acceptable to, or the age they want to BF to. Purely because by then BF is usually pretty easy/not especially limiting and it then means you have to start making formula up, whereas in another few months you can switch straight to cows milk? (not a critiscism, just a genuine question)

I think it's probably because they want to say 12 months but the poll had options for 9-12 months or 1-2 years. Several people have mentioned that they would want to wean by 12 months because of the recommendation to stop bottle feeding by then and also because you can switch to cow's milk at that point. Even though the guidelines are for formula feeding, that age seems to be ingrained in society and applied to breastfeeding too. :wacko:


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## lisaf

I think some people are answering the poll as to what is an age that is acceptable to themselves... not for other people or society as a whole.


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## freckleonear

lisaf said:


> I think some people are answering the poll as to what is an age that is acceptable to themselves... not for other people or society as a whole.

We totally need a new thread with a poll entitled "What do you think is an "acceptable" age for women in the Western world to breastfeed until?"

:muaha::argh:


----------



## midori1999

freckleonear said:


> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> I'd be interested though, tbh, in the reasons people have chosen 9 months as the age it is acceptable to, or the age they want to BF to. Purely because by then BF is usually pretty easy/not especially limiting and it then means you have to start making formula up, whereas in another few months you can switch straight to cows milk? (not a critiscism, just a genuine question)
> 
> I think it's probably because they want to say 12 months but the poll had options for 9-12 months or 1-2 years. Several people have mentioned that they would want to wean by 12 months because of the recommendation to stop bottle feeding by then and also because you can switch to cow's milk at that point. Even though the guidelines are for formula feeding, that age seems to be ingrained in society and applied to breastfeeding too. :wacko:Click to expand...

Thanks. A few people had said in the thread they wanted to stop BF around 9 months specifically.


----------



## freckleonear

midori1999 said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> I'd be interested though, tbh, in the reasons people have chosen 9 months as the age it is acceptable to, or the age they want to BF to. Purely because by then BF is usually pretty easy/not especially limiting and it then means you have to start making formula up, whereas in another few months you can switch straight to cows milk? (not a critiscism, just a genuine question)
> 
> I think it's probably because they want to say 12 months but the poll had options for 9-12 months or 1-2 years. Several people have mentioned that they would want to wean by 12 months because of the recommendation to stop bottle feeding by then and also because you can switch to cow's milk at that point. Even though the guidelines are for formula feeding, that age seems to be ingrained in society and applied to breastfeeding too. :wacko:Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. A few people had said in the thread they wanted to stop BF around 9 months specifically.Click to expand...

Ah okay, no clue then! :shrug:


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## Frooty

Why has it turned into a formula vs breastfeeding thread? I breastfed for 6 weeks then went onto formula do i feel bad for it no way because me and baby are much happier. I can't remember who made the statement but no breast is not best for baby and mother it's the mothers decision and if the baby is happy why on earth should she feel guilty because she couldn't or chose not to breastfeed. It's life please grow up


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## LittleBoo

freckleonear said:


> To those that wouldn't want their children drinking from a bottle at that age, can I ask in what way you think a breast is the same?

My son was happy to drink from a cup from about 9 months maybe older, well a sippy cup then a beaker. Bottle and breast in my eyes are babies tools, they need the sucking reflex to drink the milk, past 1 or even a few months earlier they can quite easily drink from a cup. I don't see the point in dragging it out, if I breastfed I'd just express it into a cup. 

I get why people do it, I get why people in this culture do it and I more than understand why people in other cultures do. I just personally wouldn't carry on, if my child was able to drink from a cup then I'd celebrate that and help him along his next little acheivement. That's just me, and it doesn't affect my opinion (I don't really have one actually, it's just something people do, no harm, no benefit, just another choice really) on others breastfeeding past 1. It's their business right?


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## mum22ttc#3

Frooty said:


> Why has it turned into a formula vs breastfeeding thread? I breastfed for 6 weeks then went onto formula do i feel bad for it no way because me and baby are much happier. I can't remember who made the statement but no breast is not best for baby and mother it's the mothers decision and if the baby is happy why on earth should she feel guilty because she couldn't or chose not to breastfeed. It's life please grow up

I honestly don't think anyone is trying to make anyone else feel guilty or bad for the way they feed their child. I know there was a comment made about all formula feeding mums feeling guilty and something or other but I think it was just a badly worded reply, that or either rather ignorant. 

Ive formula fed from start to finish with all 3 LO's and reading over the thread haven't been made to feel guilty or bad TBH. I suppose in an ideal world breast is best for baby nutritional wise but unfortunately it isn't an ideal world and there are alot more issues than nutritional with alot of new mums. :flower:


----------



## whit.

Honestly it's probably because it isn't the "normal" thing to do around here. That more than likely had a lot to do with peoples opinions. If I had never seen someone do it then I probably wouldn't know it was "acceptable" You know what I mean? That's probably why some people think it isn't, or some people think it's 'weird'. Totally different cultures. 
*and I'm talking about BF'ing for an extended period of time - past 12 months*

I probably would have stopped when she was a year old if I would have been able to BF. :cry: Just because she could start using a cup and drinking regular milk.

Is the guidelines for BF different from FF with cows milk?


----------



## Meredith2010

I suppose I have mixed feelings about this - in someways I think breastfeeding obviously is natural and the food intended for babies, therefore why not continue it as long as the child wants but in other ways...I don't know....I suppose I do find the thought of breastfeeding a 2, 3 or 4 year old strange! But then I think, why do I think this? Do I only think this because society has drummed it into me that it is strange? I genuinely can't think of a good argument for why I find it a bit bizarre, but it's just the sort of gut feeling I have. So personally, I would find breastfeeding over the age of 1 a bit odd but I couldn't say why I think this.

I suppose the way I see it is that the option is either breast or formula (or a combination of both) until around a year old/when solid food becomes the main part of their diet. At that stage, when milk becomes something they just get in addition and not as their main nutrition, and when they are able to drink normal cows milk, then that is what I would give. I wouldn't continue giving formula once my baby is able to have cows milk, so I suppose that is why I wouldn't see the need to continue breastfeeding past that stage. Obviously I'm aware of the benefits of breastmilk and the goodness it contains so I totally see why people say why should they stop it and give cows milk instead. For me personally, I just see breastfeeding/formula feeding as something that is done before the age of 1 when they can't have cows milk.

But I wouldn't really say that it is inappropriate (well, unless the child is close to their teens or something like that!), it's just not something that I can see a reason to do. But I don't know much about extended breastfeeding to be fair - if I was educated about it then I'm sure my opinion could be different.


----------



## midori1999

LittleBoo said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> To those that wouldn't want their children drinking from a bottle at that age, can I ask in what way you think a breast is the same?
> 
> My son was happy to drink from a cup from about 9 months maybe older, well a sippy cup then a beaker. Bottle and breast in my eyes are babies tools, they need the sucking reflex to drink the milk, past 1 or even a few months earlier they can quite easily drink from a cup. I don't see the point in dragging it out, if I breastfed I'd just express it into a cup.
> 
> I get why people do it, I get why people in this culture do it and I more than understand why people in other cultures do. I just personally wouldn't carry on, if my child was able to drink from a cup then I'd celebrate that and help him along his next little acheivement. That's just me, and it doesn't affect my opinion (I don't really have one actually, it's just something people do, no harm, no benefit, just another choice really) on others breastfeeding past 1. It's their business right?Click to expand...

My baby is almost 6 months old and she can drink from an open cup. (In fact, babies from birth can drink from an open cup) I still breastfeed her though and I don't see it holding her back in any way, she is breastfed and she also drinks from a cup. 

There actually is benefit of feeding directly from th ebreast as long as you are breastfeeding and feeding expressed milk is seen as 'second best' by the WHO. A mothers milk is tailored to suit her babies/child's needs exactly only if they feed directly from the breast. One theory for this is saliva receptors in the nipple which detect if the child has a cold, infection etc. 

Plus, of course, some women simply can't ever express and the majority can't express enough for a full feed in one go. 

Then there's the fact that it's a real PITA to express and I, for one, am lazy. Whilst there is no reason not to feed from the breast (eg, it doesn't damage teeth etc) then why go to all the bother of expressing? 

I can see why you think a breast is for babies, a lot of society do, but that is because it is ingrained into our culture.


----------



## minties

I am curious about other primates and breastfeeding - I wonder what ages our closest relatives breastfeed until?


----------



## pinkie77

Would 9 months be the age when some mums (in uk) may be returning to work?


----------



## Arisa

The above post ^^ yeah true and some have to return sooner :(

It was my fault for starting the formula debate
sorry :(


----------



## midori1999

mum22ttc#3 said:


> Frooty said:
> 
> 
> Why has it turned into a formula vs breastfeeding thread? I breastfed for 6 weeks then went onto formula do i feel bad for it no way because me and baby are much happier. I can't remember who made the statement but no breast is not best for baby and mother it's the mothers decision and if the baby is happy why on earth should she feel guilty because she couldn't or chose not to breastfeed. It's life please grow up
> 
> I honestly don't think anyone is trying to make anyone else feel guilty or bad for the way they feed their child. I know there was a comment made about all formula feeding mums feeling guilty and something or other but I think it was just a badly worded reply, that or either rather ignorant.
> 
> Ive formula fed from start to finish with all 3 LO's and reading over the thread haven't been made to feel guilty or bad TBH. I suppose in an ideal world breast is best for baby nutritional wise but unfortunately it isn't an ideal world and there are alot more issues than nutritional with alot of new mums. :flower:Click to expand...

I agree and I don't think it has turned into a BF V FF thread either. 

I hate the phrase 'breast is best'. Breast is natural, it is the biological norm and as such it is exactly what a baby needs. In an ideal world it would be everyone's first choice for feeding their baby. However, we live in a society where it is like there is an equal choice between breast and formula and whilst I am not going to pretend I think that is right, I believe every woman has a right to make her own choice, we are lucky that in the Western world we have a choice and it doesn't matter what a woman's reasons are, it is her choice to make as to how she feeds her baby.


----------



## minties

Meredith2010 said:


> I suppose I do find the thought of breastfeeding a 2, 3 or 4 year old strange! But then I think, why do I think this? Do I only think this because society has drummed it into me that it is strange? I genuinely can't think of a good argument for why I find it a bit bizarre, but it's just the sort of gut feeling I have. So personally, I would find breastfeeding over the age of 1 a bit odd but I couldn't say why I think this.

I used to feel the same way as well. In fact, before I got pregnant, I found the whole idea of breastfeeding to be "creepy" and "sexual". I was only half interested in trying it, and thought I wouldn't mnd switching to formula at all.

The thing is, when your baby turns 1, they don't suddenly grow a beard and go buy a car. They are still that same little baby you breastfeed at a week old - you still feel that need to nuture, and protect. And when you are feeding your own 1 year old, it feels right and natural. For me it does anyway.

I can't picture a day where I suddenly see Thomas as this grown up little being, who doesn't need me in that way any more. He's still small, he still mostly crawls - he just feels the same to me as he did when he was 6 months old.

It is odd because I can look at another woman feeding a baby who is older, and it feels a bit weird or wrong to me as well. I just assume it's because it's been drilled into me for all my life, that breasts are a sexual thing.


Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.


----------



## freckleonear

whit. said:


> Is the guidelines for BF different from FF with cows milk?

BF babies can have cow's milk from 1 year, just like FF babies can, but they don't have to. I just don't understand why people in general would replace something superior with something inferior unless there was a reason. Obviously it's fine if they want to stop breastfeeding for whatever reason, but plenty of people do it because they think that's just what you do!


----------



## midori1999

minties said:


> I am curious about other primates and breastfeeding - I wonder what ages our closest relatives breastfeed until?

https://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html


----------



## freckleonear

One thing that this thread has made me realise is that the NHS promotion of breastfeeding just isn't getting through. You often hear women complaining that they know breast is best and they don't want it shoved down their throats all the time, yet society as a whole is clueless about the WHO recommendation to breastfeed for at least 2 years and they view it as a direct alternative to formula feeding that should be stopped at 12 months. Somewhere along the line the message is being lost.


----------



## LoraLoo

freckleonear said:


> One thing that this thread has made me realise is that the NHS promotion of breastfeeding just isn't getting through. You often hear women complaining that they know breast is best and they don't want it shoved down their throats all the time, yet society as a whole is clueless about the WHO recommendation to breastfeed for at least 2 years and they view it as a direct alternative to formula feeding that should be stopped at 12 months. Somewhere along the line the message is being lost.

I actually thought the recommendation was until 6 months until I came on here :dohh: ( I b/f Amy until 26 months and hope to get as far again x)


----------



## Arisa

its the same in New Zealand, the national guidelines state that for the first six months unless a woman can or chose not to that breastfeeding is the only source of food and nutrition babies are to have and that breastfeeding should be continued along with the introduction of solid foods for up to two years.

The majority of women I know at my church and as friends tend to breastfeed until either 1. the get sick or an infection and are unable to feed anymore
2. Their milk dries up which happened to my cousin
3. Their baby reaches the age of 12 months

In some cases women stop when they are pregnant, my friend had to because she said her little boy did not like the taste anymore, he would scrunch his face up and refuse when she offered during her pregnancy and he was only 5 months. she is breastfeeding her second until 10 months, any longer she thinks is too long but thats her personal belief.

The worst was my aunty who refused to breast feed her second child because she was girl but breast feed her son until he weaned because to put it bluntly he was a boy and needed it more than a girl :( :( :(


----------



## Meredith2010

minties said:


> Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.

I suppose that's when I wonder where people draw the line - if breastmilk is so beneficial (which I'm not questioning), then why is it stopped at all? Why are children not given it all throughout childhood? Where do you draw the line with giving it to your children if it is always going to have a positive effect on them? 

Again, I suppose to me it feels like a choice has to be made as to when to stop breastfeeding and give "regular" milk instead, so to me the natural time to do that is when milk becomes less of the main aspect of their diet and just something extra, so around a year old or so.

But I fully see why people question why they should give cows milk when they produce something specifically design for babies. That's why this issue does confuse me, as I don't even know what I really think about it or why!!

All I know is that for whatever reasons, I would stop breastfeeding at around a year and give cows milk instead (in the same way that I will stop formula at that stage). But other people can do whatever they like, I would never be so arrogant as to think my way was better than anyone else's.


----------



## midori1999

Arisa, getting sick or getting an infection does not mean you have to stop BF, although it's a fairly common misconception. In fact, feeding through an infection, such as mastitis will actually make it clear more quickly. In fact, you can even feed with a breast abcess and if pus is in your milk, because breastmilk has such strong antibacterial properties, these protect the baby and make your milk safe. 

Of course, a woman may decide that having an infection, mastitis etc means she wants to stop BF and that is fine, but no-one has to.


----------



## Natsku

Meredith2010 said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.
> 
> I suppose that's when I wonder where people draw the line - if breastmilk is so beneficial (which I'm not questioning), then why is it stopped at all? Why are children not given it all throughout childhood? Where do you draw the line with giving it to your children if it is always going to have a positive effect on them?
> 
> Again, I suppose to me it feels like a choice has to be made as to when to stop breastfeeding and give "regular" milk instead, so to me the natural time to do that is when milk becomes less of the main aspect of their diet and just something extra, so around a year old or so.
> 
> But I fully see why people question why they should give cows milk when they produce something specifically design for babies. That's why this issue does confuse me, as I don't even know what I really think about it or why!!
> 
> All I know is that for whatever reasons, I would stop breastfeeding at around a year and give cows milk instead (in the same way that I will stop formula at that stage). But other people can do whatever they like, I would never be so arrogant as to think my way was better than anyone else's.Click to expand...

Well it makes sense to stop when the child can no longer get the milk out I guess. 
For me I have no problem with Maria having cows milk once she turns one (like when her grandparents are looking after her) but I'd rather give her breastmilk when she's with me. Mainly cos its free and I'm cheap. The health benefits are just a nice bonus :rofl:

But I suppose if someone can express a lot, and keep their supply up, I don't see the problem with them continuing to give breastmilk in a cup to an older child who has already self-weaned from the breast, if they want it still.


----------



## freckleonear

Meredith2010 said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.
> 
> I suppose that's when I wonder where people draw the line - if breastmilk is so beneficial (which I'm not questioning), then why is it stopped at all? Why are children not given it all throughout childhood? Where do you draw the line with giving it to your children if it is always going to have a positive effect on them?
> 
> Again, I suppose to me it feels like a choice has to be made as to when to stop breastfeeding and give "regular" milk instead, so to me the natural time to do that is when milk becomes less of the main aspect of their diet and just something extra, so around a year old or so.Click to expand...

Nature draws the line when children lose their milk teeth and the ability to suckle, although most are likely to self-wean long before that anyway. Of course expressed breastmilk is still beneficial beyond that age, but I doubt many women would want to make more of a sacrifice of time, effort and their bodies than they already have. I just don't see the point of imposing my own cut-off time when nature has already got it all planned out perfectly.


----------



## midori1999

minties said:


> Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.

I don't disagree as such, but suggesting 'breast is best' suggests it's the best choice, when really, the choice shouldn't be a choice in the way it is, breastfeeding should be the 'default' setting and formula the alternative when BF isn't possible or if the Mother doesn't want to BF. 

Plus, I think the whole 'breast is best' thing is what alienates and crates negative feelings in a lot of women who FF or who really want to BF but struggle and therefore find it impossible (for them) or who are physically unable to BF.


----------



## Natsku

midori1999 said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.
> 
> I don't disagree as such, but suggesting 'breast is best' suggests it's the best choice, when really, the choice shouldn't be a choice in the way it is, breastfeeding should be the 'default' setting and formula the alternative when BF isn't possible or if the Mother doesn't want to BF.
> 
> Plus, I think the whole 'breast is best' thing is what alienates and crates negative feelings in a lot of women who FF or who really want to BF but struggle and therefore find it impossible (for them) or who are physically unable to BF.Click to expand...

I agree with you. They don't have the whole 'breast is best' campaign here, they just assume everyone will breastfeed and indeed 99% do at the start so I guess it works.


----------



## midori1999

Meredith2010 said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> Also on the whole breast is best, I agree with it. Breastmilk is best, there can be no arguing it. Formula is fine but breastmilk is perfect. You can't get anything better. In fact, I would drink it now if I could (from a cup, obviously). It has cancer killing properties amongst the many other amazing things it does.
> 
> I suppose that's when I wonder where people draw the line - if breastmilk is so beneficial (which I'm not questioning), then why is it stopped at all? Why are children not given it all throughout childhood? Where do you draw the line with giving it to your children if it is always going to have a positive effect on them?
> 
> Again, I suppose to me it feels like a choice has to be made as to when to stop breastfeeding and give "regular" milk instead, so to me the natural time to do that is when milk becomes less of the main aspect of their diet and just something extra, so around a year old or so.
> 
> .Click to expand...

We don't need milk in our diets past a certain age at all, we can get all the nurtrients we need from other foods. We have evolved to be able to tolerate dairy products and some people still can't. In fact, their are whole cultures that can't 

I don't think it's any coincidence that human children lose their milk teeth and their ability to latch on to the breast at around the same time as their immune system is fully developed.


----------



## freckleonear

Darn you Midori, I'm pretty much thanking your every post because you say everything I would like to say (and more) but much more clearly! I'm not a weird stalker, honest! :rofl:


----------



## midori1999

freckleonear said:


> Darn you Midori, I'm pretty much thanking your every post because you say everything I would like to say (and more) but much more clearly! I'm not a weird stalker, honest! :rofl:

:haha: I feel like that sometimes too. 

Your spelling/typing would have probably been much better than mine, it's late and I'm multi tasking... :haha:


----------



## hot tea

Midori, I always enjoy reading your posts. You have such great things to say and you are always so clearly respectful. 

Dairy is completly unnecessary. There is nothing healthy about cows milk, actually. The only reason there are any benefits is because we add calcium and vitamins to it. There are MUCH better ways to get your nutrience, especially as a one year old. Like... Breastmilk, for instance.


----------



## whit.

hot tea said:


> Midori, I always enjoy reading your posts. You have such great things to say and you are always so clearly respectful.
> 
> Dairy is completly unnecessary. There is nothing healthy about cows milk, actually. The only reason there are any benefits is because we add calcium and vitamins to it. There are MUCH better ways to get your nutrience, especially as a one year old. Like... Breastmilk, for instance.

Then would formula be better to keep giving than starting cows milk since it has more nutrients? 

(serious question)


----------



## hot tea

whit. said:


> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> Midori, I always enjoy reading your posts. You have such great things to say and you are always so clearly respectful.
> 
> Dairy is completly unnecessary. There is nothing healthy about cows milk, actually. The only reason there are any benefits is because we add calcium and vitamins to it. There are MUCH better ways to get your nutrience, especially as a one year old. Like... Breastmilk, for instance.
> 
> Then would formula be better to keep giving than starting cows milk since it has more nutrients?
> 
> (serious question)Click to expand...

Yes, it would be. Goats milk is also a LOT easier for humans to digest. This is another option.


----------



## whit.

Interesting. I wonder if people who FF ever do that or switch to cows because it's cheaper.


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## hot tea

I know a lot of moms who keep with toddler formula. If I formula fed I would not give cows milk until around the age my eldest weaned off the breast (so three +). People are so weird when it comes to cowsmilk, thinking it is healthy. It is all just a business, nothing more. Calcium is found in SO many better ways.


----------



## LittleBoo

midori1999 said:


> LittleBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> To those that wouldn't want their children drinking from a bottle at that age, can I ask in what way you think a breast is the same?
> 
> My son was happy to drink from a cup from about 9 months maybe older, well a sippy cup then a beaker. Bottle and breast in my eyes are babies tools, they need the sucking reflex to drink the milk, past 1 or even a few months earlier they can quite easily drink from a cup. I don't see the point in dragging it out, if I breastfed I'd just express it into a cup.
> 
> I get why people do it, I get why people in this culture do it and I more than understand why people in other cultures do. I just personally wouldn't carry on, if my child was able to drink from a cup then I'd celebrate that and help him along his next little acheivement. That's just me, and it doesn't affect my opinion (I don't really have one actually, it's just something people do, no harm, no benefit, just another choice really) on others breastfeeding past 1. It's their business right?Click to expand...
> 
> My baby is almost 6 months old and she can drink from an open cup. (In fact, babies from birth can drink from an open cup) I still breastfeed her though and I don't see it holding her back in any way, she is breastfed and she also drinks from a cup.
> 
> There actually is benefit of feeding directly from th ebreast as long as you are breastfeeding and feeding expressed milk is seen as 'second best' by the WHO. A mothers milk is tailored to suit her babies/child's needs exactly only if they feed directly from the breast. One theory for this is saliva receptors in the nipple which detect if the child has a cold, infection etc.
> 
> Plus, of course, some women simply can't ever express and the majority can't express enough for a full feed in one go.
> 
> Then there's the fact that it's a real PITA to express and I, for one, am lazy. Whilst there is no reason not to feed from the breast (eg, it doesn't damage teeth etc) then why go to all the bother of expressing?
> 
> I can see why you think a breast is for babies, a lot of society do, but that is because it is ingrained into our culture.Click to expand...

Like I said, I get why others do it, I don't think it's wrong or weird. I just wouldn't do it. I don't assume other mums hold their babies back, I just wouldn't do it myself. If I gave breastmilk after 1, it would be via cup. That's just how we roll :) I'd give OH breastmilk in a cup too. But I wouldn't feed him straight from the breast. Speaking of which, he REALLY liked breastmilk (tried it a few times when I was expressing in the first month). Sometimes I want to buy another pump (passed it on to a friend) and start expressing some for both the boys, Jack tried some and wanted more :haha:


----------



## LittleBoo

Also agree with the ladies who say cows milk/dairy has virtually no benefits for most people. I rarely have it apart from in coffee, and try to get rice/almond milk (or chocolate soy milk, nomnom :D) I read once (I'm really quite thick so this wont be the best wording) that there's something in milk that actually prevents calcium being absorbed to an extent? Not sure on whether it's true or not, but apparently (do not take my word as fact, never ever do this, I'm incredibly gulliable) that one of the lowest rates of osteoperosis is in a country where dairy is eaten very rarely, if at all. Anyone know if that's true? xx


----------



## hot tea

LittleBoo - it is true. Dairy has been proven to leech calcium from your bones.


----------



## louandivy

oh nooo don't say that! I love milk! I'm such a big baby.


----------



## Arisa

louandivy said:


> oh nooo don't say that! I love milk! I'm such a big baby.

Same I love dairy and wont be giving it up.
The little kids I know love cheese and yoghurt and chocolate and ice cream.
Good on those women who are abler to cut out dairy because their babies are intolerant to it while breast feeding, that takes tremendous selflessness and dedication but i am in no way an anti dairy advocate and I am unable to drink milk during hay fever season. It aggravates my nostrils and eyes something terrible, in fact when I switch to soy milk and avoid yoghurt and ice cream during the summer months my hay fever clears right up, anyone else find this??

soy milk is yum, I love soy latte and cappuccino and its really nice in rolled oats and cereal, mmm vanilla soy milk :thumbup:
I never give up cheese though:blush:


----------



## hot tea

I LOVE cottage cheese, could never give it up. I see dairy as my little indulgence. I know it's not good and that is enough. Ignorance just isn't bliss if you know what I mean.


----------



## Seity

I combo feed. I'll let my LO nurse until he's ready to stop. I switched to cow's milk at 1 year from formula because it's cheaper. We only eat/drink whole milk products in our house. I love dairy and believe it is part of a healthy diet.


----------



## membas#1

we also only do whole raw dairy products in our house...raw goats milk for me (LO is breastfed but will eventually go to raw goat's when we are ready) and raw cheeses for all of us. i believe dairy is important in our diets, but prefer goat over cow, and raw over pasteurized/homogenized. 

to each their own :)


----------



## x__amour

However long you're comfortable in doing so. :thumbup:


----------



## TigerLady

LittleBoo said:


> past 1 or even a few months earlier they can quite easily drink from a cup. I don't see the point in dragging it out, if I breastfed I'd just express it into a cup...
> if my child was able to drink from a cup then I'd celebrate that and help him along his next little acheivement. ..it's just something people do, no harm, *no benefit*, just another choice really) on others breastfeeding past 1. It's their business right?

My kids both started drinking from cups at less than 6 months old. I didn't offer them sippy cups to start with. They were offered doidy cups and got their water that way. Continuing to allow a child to breastfeed past their ability to drink from a cup is not "dragging it out." It is actually natural and even necessary (if you are BF and don't want to switch to FF). My DS _can_ pee in the potty as could my DD if I were to make her (EC style). But that doesn't mean I am dragging out potty training for either of them because they are still in diapers most of the time. Growing up is a process, some milestones take longer than others to fully realize. Weaning is a milestone that is a _very_ long process when done "naturally." I don't feel I am dragging out the weaning of my children, I am doing it naturally. :shrug:

Not to mention the fact that expressing into a cup is a major pain. I'm not sure you really understand what a PITA it is. LOL Besides, how many animals in the "natural" world do you see expressing into a cup after their baby reaches a certain age? None, because it isn't the way nature really intended for it to go. 

And there are MANY benefits to BF past 12 months. Many. Read on as I will elaborate.




whit. said:


> Is the guidelines for BF different from FF with cows milk?

No. Cow's milk is okay to offer at 1 year old regardless of BF or FF. 

*However, what I think so many are missing in this discussion is that  BF is about so MUCH more than just nutrition. *It is about connection, comfort, immunity, brain development, facial muscle development, and more. It would be a different story if it was simply for nutritional purposes, but it is not. And you don't really realize that until you do BF past 12-18 months. My DS has no nutritional NEED for breastmilk any longer. However, he has a psychological need, an immunilogical need, and a brain development need. It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and the higher their IQ is (with diminishing returns after a certain age, which coincidentally is roughly the age of natural weaning).



Meredith2010 said:


> I suppose I have mixed feelings about this - in someways I think breastfeeding obviously is natural and the food intended for babies, therefore why not continue it as long as the child wants but in other ways...I don't know....I suppose I do find the thought of breastfeeding a 2, 3 or 4 year old strange! But then I think, why do I think this? Do I only think this because society has drummed it into me that it is strange? I genuinely can't think of a good argument for why I find it a bit bizarre, but it's just the sort of gut feeling I have. So personally, I would find breastfeeding over the age of 1 a bit odd but I couldn't say why I think this.

Thank you for this honestly and candor. I think many people feel exactly the way you do. They don't know why they are against it, they just are. When pressed they will give all sorts of reasons they sort of make up on the fly because it feels silly to have a strong opinion for no real reason. I've been through this argument with so many ppl IRL I have lost count. It usually ends with my having given a dozen reasons why it is beneficial for me to continue to BF my kids and the other person saying, "Well, whatever. I still say it is wrong." :dohh:



minties said:


> I am curious about other primates and breastfeeding - I wonder what ages our closest relatives breastfeed until?

It depends on the primate. Prosimians (lemurs and the like) wean fairly young, but not before the youngster is well established on solids. Monkeys tend to nurse for longer and will comfort nurse quite a bit. A nursling is often cut off by its mother when she starts to cycle and/or becomes pg again. Sometimes not actually getting fully cut off until mother actually gives birth again. 

Great apes (chimps, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans) nurse in a way that is very similar to humans when humans do it with natural weaning. They nurse for extended periods of time -- years. They do a great deal of comfort nursing. Chimps especially will even tandem nurse regularly. Nurslings are not cut off until they are much older, far past the strict nutritional need for BF. 



midori1999 said:


> Meredith2010 said:
> 
> 
> I suppose that's when I wonder where people draw the line - if breastmilk is so beneficial (which I'm not questioning), then why is it stopped at all? Why are children not given it all throughout childhood? Where do you draw the line with giving it to your children if it is always going to have a positive effect on them?
> 
> .
> 
> We don't need milk in our diets past a certain age at all, we can get all the nurtrients we need from other foods. We have evolved to be able to tolerate dairy products and some people still can't. In fact, their are whole cultures that can't
> 
> I don't think it's any coincidence that human children lose their milk teeth and their ability to latch on to the breast at around the same time as their immune system is fully developed.Click to expand...

Yes! It is actually quite unnatural for us to drink milk as adults. We only evolved the adaption to do so when we started colonizing more hostile environments were plant foods were scarce. Domesticated animals provided milk as a good source of nutrition without the need to kill the animal -- so it was longer lasting. It made sense to start drinking it then. If I remember correctly, lactose intolerance is more common in ethic groups that don't have that sort of colonization in their backgrounds (so native African, native South American, etc.) Northern groups tend to tolerate milk better because their ancestors drank it and evolved the ability to digest it in order to survive. 

And remember, we are the ONLY species that drinks the milk of another species. All other species offer their own milk to their own babies until natural weaning occurs and then no milk thereafter. So, substituting another animal's milk for your own when your baby reaches a certain age is not really the way nature intended it on the whole.

---------------------

I'd just like to stress this point again.... for those that find it strange to BF a child past a certain point, please try to look at it from this perspective. 

BF a child past the age of 1-2 (really 2), is not about nutrition. It is not about needing a milk additive to the diet. It is about brain development, comfort, facial muscle development, bonding, and building immunity. I know that is hard to remember because if you have not BF past 2, then you don't really know what it's like. It is VERY different from BF a newborn, or even a 6 month old. 

I continue to BF my 2.5 yo DS because it makes him feel good. Because it calms him at night before bed. Because he is in Pre-School and very often sick, so BF helps him with that. Because all those extra special fats might give him a brain boost. But, mostly, I do it because it is clear to me he is not quite ready to quit. 

Believe me, we will quit one day. I don't know when, but I suspect sometime in the next year or so. Either way, it will be when one of us (either him or me) is SURE we are ready to stop. And it will be LONG before it is weird, creepy, or has any hint of sexual overtones to it. He will outgrow his need for it as his immunity natural gets stronger... and as he naturally becomes more independent and needs mama less and less. One day he'll just say, "I don't need that to make me feel loved and safe enough to go to sleep anymore." And that will be it. :thumbup:


----------



## Celesse

I'll feed her until she wants to stop. She most definatly doesn't feed for nutrition anymore,and her only motivation to feed is comfort and security. My milk supply went down to *nothing* around 18 weeks into this pregnancy, but she continued to "feed". Since 24 weeks I've made small amounts of colostrum which she takes, but not enough to fill her tummy or quinch her thirst. In the morning she will come into our bed, have a boobie for 15 minutes then ask for and drink a beaker full of juice. She may decide to wean when the milk comes in for the new baby, she may decide to feed more.

She doesn't usually feed outside of the house anymore. She wants to feed when she has fallen over, or is tired, or has had a busy day and needs to collect her thoughts. It security, warmth and somewhere very familiar for her. Yes, she looks a bit silly if I feed her in the cradle hold as she is so long. But she still gains a lot of benefit from BFing its just not much nutritional anymore.


----------



## teal

I chose self weaning but that was my personal choice. My son self weaned at 17.5 months so I'm not sure how I would feel if he was 3 and still wanting to breastfeed.. 

I also feel that _expressing into a cup_ isn't as easy as it sounds. I always found expressing rather time consuming and the few times I did offer expressed milk in a cup it was heartbreaking when my son would spill it everywhere!


----------



## pinkie77

To answer the question, I'm happy to continue until she self weans, but would be concerned about her being picked on if she was at school by then. But to the community around me, the acceptable age seems to be either until they have teeth, are walking or can ask for 'boobie'. As we have passed all 3, I get lots of negativity :shrug:


----------



## LittleBoo

TigerLady said:


> LittleBoo said:
> 
> 
> past 1 or even a few months earlier they can quite easily drink from a cup. I don't see the point in dragging it out, if I breastfed I'd just express it into a cup...
> if my child was able to drink from a cup then I'd celebrate that and help him along his next little acheivement. ..it's just something people do, no harm, *no benefit*, just another choice really) on others breastfeeding past 1. It's their business right?
> 
> 
> Not to mention the fact that expressing into a cup is a major pain. I'm not sure you really understand what a PITA it is. LOL Besides, how many animals in the "natural" world do you see expressing into a cup after their baby reaches a certain age? None, because it isn't the way nature really intended for it to go.
> 
> 
> ^ I do understand what a "PITA" it is babe, I expressed for a month. Bloody hell :lol: I regret saying anything, I know no one's attacking or owt but I've been nice as anything about it and things are still getting bolded :haha: someone just needs to add the :shrug: or :flower: smilie :haha:Click to expand...


----------



## Frooty

When the child reaches 1 year they need more than just breast milk or formula thats what i read somewhere but should not be given before 1


----------



## bumpy_j

^^ what do you mean, as in food?


----------



## Septie

I exclusively BF DS1 until 13 months (no solids) - and he literally was never sick in that year. No allergies, nothing. No digestive problems when introducing solids. Nothing. I then continued BF until around 18 months, when he self-weaned during my pregnancy (he did not like suckling on an empty breast) - I was very sad, and would gladly have tandem-nursed. But he has been a very healthy kid with a great immune system (heck, I had a month-long cold in January while BF a lot - and LO had one day of fever; can't beat that). I would have continued until natural weaning, whenever, for the immune benefits and his comfort. BF a toddler is also soooo simple compared to a newborn, say, a few minutes of drinking, and off he runs. And it's a fantastic comfort - he used to drink briefly after hurting himself and forget all about his pain.
The only people that ever made comments were my inlaws. And they made a lot of comments, starting maybe around 3 months. If I had enough milk (even though or perhaps because he was a huge fat baby during BF!), shouldn't I be introducing dairy, didn't he need solids, would he ever learn to eat properly and appreciate the diversity of food etc etc etc. Neverending :growlmad:. I hope they've learned and won't do the same with DS2 (though I wouldn't be surprised if DS2 wants solids prior to 13 months, to imitate DS1).


----------



## Septie

Oh, I also wanted to mention, DS1 had an iron test sometime after 6 months, while still exclusively BF, and it was completely in the middle of the normal range! To the doctor's surprise (he was also a tiny 6 lb baby at birth, so the stores at birth should long have been depleted)!


----------



## cherryglitter

personally, i would probably stop when the child is 12 months. 

but i have no issue with anyone else who were to let their child self wean at whatever age.


----------



## whit.

TigerLady said:


> whit. said:
> 
> 
> Is the guidelines for BF different from FF with cows milk?
> 
> No. Cow's milk is okay to offer at 1 year old regardless of BF or FF.
> 
> *However, what I think so many are missing in this discussion is that  BF is about so MUCH more than just nutrition. *It is about connection, comfort, immunity, brain development, facial muscle development, and more. It would be a different story if it was simply for nutritional purposes, but it is not. And you don't really realize that until you do BF past 12-18 months. My DS has no nutritional NEED for breastmilk any longer. However, he has a psychological need, an immunilogical need, and a brain development need. It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and the higher their IQ is (with diminishing returns after a certain age, which coincidentally is roughly the age of natural weaning).Click to expand...

So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?

Sorry, wasn't trying to be rude but I tried for weeks to breast feed and ended up having to switch to formula. Cried for hours daily, and tried so hard. I feel like I couldn't do it and failed her - reading statements like that upsets me even more.


----------



## MrsHamstra

I would really like to know.
6 months ago I.was informed that my fiance.was.breast fed till he was.4. Oh hell no. he.told me our kids will still be breast feeding at that age I said over my dead body. Maybe if I pumped or something but I think 4 still sitting on his mothers lap is too old. She finally quit after he bit her really hard.


----------



## MrsHamstra

whit. said:


> TigerLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit. said:
> 
> 
> Is the guidelines for BF different from FF with cows milk?
> 
> No. Cow's milk is okay to offer at 1 year old regardless of BF or FF.
> 
> *However, what I think so many are missing in this discussion is that  BF is about so MUCH more than just nutrition. *It is about connection, comfort, immunity, brain development, facial muscle development, and more. It would be a different story if it was simply for nutritional purposes, but it is not. And you don't really realize that until you do BF past 12-18 months. My DS has no nutritional NEED for breastmilk any longer. However, he has a psychological need, an immunilogical need, and a brain development need. It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and the higher their IQ is (with diminishing returns after a certain age, which coincidentally is roughly the age of natural weaning).Click to expand...
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?Click to expand...

Your daughter is just adorable. Love her name.


----------



## Arisa

whit. said:


> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?

No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.

My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.


----------



## MrsHamstra

Arisa said:


> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...

I.agree. Nutrition is really the only benifit. My mom had me a month after her 15th.birthday and she was.too young to breast feed me and I was a very.sick baby. My immune system was so weak. 2yrs later my sis was born and she breast fed her she was never sick! 2yrs after her my.brother was born she breast fed him and he was never sick either. I would get the flu first, colds first, everything.


----------



## Leopard

MrsHamstra said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...
> 
> I.agree. Nutrition is really the only benifit. My mom had me a month after her 15th.birthday and she was.too young to breast feed me and I was a very.sick baby. My immune system was so weak. 2yrs later my sis was born and she breast fed her she was never sick! 2yrs after her my.brother was born she breast fed him and he was never sick either. I would get the flu first, colds first, everything.Click to expand...

Too young to breastfeed? That's the only bit I'm interested in. *how was she too young to breastfeed?* Just curious.

As for immunity etc, I ended up having to be Ff because mum dried up and I've had nothing but medical problems since. However with regard to IQ, I have a higher IQ then Einstein (not telling you how high :haha:) and I was FF, throws that idea out the window :thumbup:


----------



## KatieB

I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.


----------



## ashley2pink

Well, it is proven that bf babies do have higher IQ's in general than ff babies. But of course there will be some ff that do have higher IQ's than bf babies. 
https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/b...best/how-breastfeeding-builds-brighter-brains
I was ff, but my IQ is 135- that's well above the average IQ of 100.


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## Blah11

Why do people try and argue scientific FACTS? BF is not just nuitrition and its widely known and accepted. The fact that you couldn't BF doesn't make you a bad parent but the benefits of breastfeeding are still there :shrug:


----------



## Blah11

Arisa said:


> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...

what would a psychiatrist know about breastfeeding lol 

How lovely of you to call a friends child dumb too btw.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

I was gonna say, if it's just nutrition, why does it help protect women against breast cancer and osteoprosis? LOL, as for IQ, I was breastfed. I'm pretty smart, but I can't spell worth a damn! :haha:


----------



## midori1999

Someone has stated facts about BF/breastmilk. I will never understand why people get offended or upset by this. Surely if you wanted to BF in the first place then it isn't news to you anyway? 

It is dreadful that women who wanted to breastfeed did not get the correct support or information to enable them to. In fact, it's disgusting. What's almost as bad is that women who didn't BF but wanted to don't get any sort of emotional support after giving up. (you can get this from a BF cousellor with any of the big organisations BTW) However, that is not the fault of anyone on this forum and anger should not be directed at them.


----------



## midori1999

Blah11 said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...
> 
> what would a psychiatrist know about breastfeeding lol
> 
> How lovely of you to call a friends child dumb too btw.Click to expand...

Your right, I've recently sadly found out that even the hospital Breast Clinic do not know that much about Bf. Shocking, isn't it?


----------



## DarlingMe

First off the study that shows BF babies have higher IQs only shows a difference of like 10 points or so. (BREASTFED -- not expressed breastmilk) 

Second off I think that alot of the benefits of breastfeeding come from the nurturing and closeness a breastfeeding mother and child share. When breastFEEDing it is definately that you will sit down with your child and bond. Not that EBM isn't great, but physically and physiologically it does not have the same benefits and hormones that a nursing baby gets. 

Also it has been proven that breastFED babies and moms are better in tune with each other. These pairs actually share the same hormones (some specific to time of day) and seem to have a 6th sense for one another according to the studies. So i can definately see the benefits later than one year.

this is not to say that a bottle fed baby and mother cannot mimic some of those same nurturing benefits. I was FF and do not feel neglected and I am not dumb. I do believe that because a lot of benefits of BF are from that bond, that it is possible for some moms to get this same closeness regardless of their feeding vessicle.


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## cherryglitter

don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them. 
they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.


----------



## Dragonfly

How ever long they want to be its not harming any one and no one elses business either same as a mum formula feeding her baby how ever long she wants to is ok to. I dont get why people are allowed to stand there and dictate to others how long someones child is to feed , I mean health professionals by the way. I dont get the row about it not being any good for the child after x amount of months, it always is good personally I can see it does my two good and I am glad I stuck with it for my efforts have not been wasted.

ps some of us live where breastfeeding is not pushed :( but if it is we wouldnt have the lowest rates in the UK. The support for any sort of feeding is pretty bad to be honest.


----------



## DarlingMe

cherryglitter said:


> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.

Funny you say breastfeeding is pushed. I think most nursing moms feel formula is pushed. I honestly have never heard any benefits specifically from formula, besides false ones. Everyone talks about the BF benefits because there are so many. 

For example, "FF fed babies sleep longer" my Exclusively breastfed baby has slept 12 hours waking once for a feed since 12 weeks. Fact is BF moms get more sleep on average due to the sync in hormones and sleep cycles.

"FF is easier": IMO it is easier not to wash bottles, mix formula, purchase formula, heat it, and then have to make sure LO drinks it all someone is wasted. I always have my milk mixed, at the perfect temp, in a clean "bottle".

"if I BF than my husband can't get up at night with the baby!" how many husbands actually do this more than once a week max??

"no one else can feed the baby" well they can, you can always pump. But there are plenty of other ways to bond besides feeding.

Of course formula is great when needed and can be beneficial but I don't see any benefits to formula over breastmilk, that is why no one talks about them.

Sorry OP this has definately turned into one of those threads...


----------



## Laura2919

cherryglitter said:


> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.

Oh my fishette.. You are so right.. I'm sick of this same argument!! Breast is best if it suits mum and baby... You can't force someone to do it!


----------



## cherryglitter

it must be different in the UK then.


----------



## cherryglitter

Laura2919 said:


> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.
> 
> Oh my fishette.. You are so right.. I'm sick of this same argument!! Breast is best if it suits mum and baby... You can't force someone to do it!Click to expand...

same, there seem to be a few of them around at the moment too. note to self, steer clear of baby club when this babies born. :shock:


----------



## midori1999

cherryglitter said:


> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.

Do you ever wonder why they are 'pushing' BF so much?


----------



## cherryglitter

midori1999 said:


> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.
> 
> Do you ever wonder why they are 'pushing' BF so much?Click to expand...

not really. these things don't bother me. people feed their child, that's all that matters to me. :shrug:


----------



## Laura2919

I think that if a baby is being fed and is healthy that should be all that matters. There's lots of reasons to why people don't/can't breastfeed.. Wish people would remember that..


----------



## babyhopes2010

while i know BF is best nutritionally.i had a 3 day old very hungry dehydrated baby.
she hadnt had anything since her 1st feed when is was born.

the so called support i got actually made me and baby so distressed in the end i gave her formula. the pressure is there to bf but the support is not there :cry:


as for BF id say when they get teeth id have stopped.


----------



## mum22ttc#3

KatieB said:


> I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.

Agree. Even if she did I don't know why people get so offended, its statistics at the end of the day, it doesn't mean that just because your child is FF that they aren't going to be very intelligent. I'm sure if you looked at BF children it would be the same, not everyone of them is going to be overly intelligent. There are many more factors contributing to a child's/adults intelligent then how they were feed as a baby.

I formula fed DD1 and she is well above average in her class for many of the areas and TBH I'm confident that DD2 and 3 aren't going to be 'lacking' either just because they had formula.

As for breast being 'pushed' for me this is completely untrue. The midwife asked each time how I would be feeding and after I had said formula it was left at that. Not once was it followed up on and not once was Breast suggested. In fact I wish it had been suggested and the facts presented to me, I may well have come to the same decision, but at least it would have been an informed one.
Saying that though I do not feel guilty having formula feed my LO's because thats exactly what I did, feed them. There are alot worse things I could have done.

:flower:


----------



## Leopard

I just had a total light bulb moment; how about we all feed our kids. As long as they aren't hungry we must be doing something right!

I have a few friends in this thread and it saddens me to see such bickering. Yes breastfeeding has great benefits for both mum and bub, yes for some people formula is an easier (albeit more expensive) way to feed their children.

I will openly admit, I used to be dead against formula until joining BnB. The ladies here have shown my attitude tolerance and my attitude has changed to show them acceptance. We are all parents, and we all have different parenting styles. Does that mean our children will grow up worse then someone else? No, it simply means they will be different; as we all are!

I think you all need to realize that we are all just human. :friends: ​


----------



## midori1999

cherryglitter said:


> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.
> 
> Do you ever wonder why they are 'pushing' BF so much?Click to expand...
> 
> not really. these things don't bother me. people feed their child, that's all that matters to me. :shrug:Click to expand...

Luckily, some people look at the bigger picture. 



Leopard said:


> I just had a total light bulb moment; how about we all feed our kids. As long as they aren't hungry we must be doing something right!
> 
> I have a few friends in this thread and it saddens me to see such bickering. Yes breastfeeding has great benefits for both mum and bub, yes for some people formula is an easier (albeit more expensive) way to feed their children.
> 
> I will openly admit, I used to be dead against formula until joining BnB. The ladies here have shown my attitude tolerance and my attitude has changed to show them acceptance. We are all parents, and we all have different parenting styles. Does that mean our children will grow up worse then someone else? No, it simply means they will be different; as we all are!
> 
> I think you all need to realize that we are all just human. :friends: ​

Why on earth would anyone be _against_ formula? You are the only one that has said that on this thread and I don't think I have actually seen anyone else say that on this forum. In fact, the only reason the discussion has turned to having anything to do with formula is because people can't state _facts_ about BF without someone getting offended and because people compared the duration of BF with the duration of giving bottles/formula. Other than both FF and BF both feed babies, the two things are completely different. 

People consistently confuse being _pro breastfeeding _with_ being anti formula_ and the two things are not the same at all.


----------



## Dragonfly

I am curious and disturbed someone answered it was never ok to breastfeed on the poll.


----------



## Frooty

I felt pushed into breastfeeding and i did for 6 weeks and i couldn't wait to stop honestly as i wasn't bonding with my baby so had the total opposite effect on me. When i finally moved onto FF me and my baby were so much closer. Like i've said many times before bf is not best for every baby my uncle wouldn't even go on the boob so even some babies don't like it. 

Who cares if u bf or ff if your baby is happy then thats all that matters. No point getting on a high horse saying oh this milk is better for baby they will become more intelligent bla bla bla just keep doing what your doing :)


----------



## cupcake

I think that for me the problem is that breasts are for nursing, but at some stage a child must be taught that breasts are a private part of a womans body and I think that once a child is old enough to realize that , which would be about 3 years old, I think that its not longer a good idea to carry on nursing. I am still nursing my son who is a year and 8 months, but already he is say booby in public, and pulling up my shirt. This makes me feel uncomfortable as I feel he is older already. I also think that nursing is for babies and young toddlers and that part of a child growing up is shedding those things that he had as a baby, pacci, bottle, crib, pureed food etc, and nursing is one of those things. It is to the childs benefit to be helped to mature, and a 5 year old nursing is to me still holding on to something that prevents that. Obviously just my thoughts on the matter.


----------



## Tasha

My seven year old, doesnt even know that breasts are seen in society as sexual let alone my six and three year olds. I dont know how they would possibly know that unless they were being exposed to stuff that isnt age appropriate?


----------



## Leopard

Midori (awesome drink :winkwink:) I was against it because I did not know any better. I was naive and stupid to put it simply. Life and parenting is all a learning curve and since being pregnant and having my daughter a lot of my misconceptions have changed.​


----------



## cherryglitter

midori1999 said:


> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.
> 
> Do you ever wonder why they are 'pushing' BF so much?Click to expand...
> 
> not really. these things don't bother me. people feed their child, that's all that matters to me. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> Luckily, some people look at the bigger picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Leopard said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just had a total light bulb moment; how about we all feed our kids. As long as they aren't hungry we must be doing something right!
> 
> I have a few friends in this thread and it saddens me to see such bickering. Yes breastfeeding has great benefits for both mum and bub, yes for some people formula is an easier (albeit more expensive) way to feed their children.
> 
> I will openly admit, I used to be dead against formula until joining BnB. The ladies here have shown my attitude tolerance and my attitude has changed to show them acceptance. We are all parents, and we all have different parenting styles. Does that mean our children will grow up worse then someone else? No, it simply means they will be different; as we all are!
> 
> I think you all need to realize that we are all just human. :friends: ​Click to expand...
> 
> Why on earth would anyone be _against_ formula? You are the only one that has said that on this thread and I don't think I have actually seen anyone else say that on this forum. In fact, the only reason the discussion has turned to having anything to do with formula is because people can't state _facts_ about BF without someone getting offended and because people compared the duration of BF with the duration of giving bottles/formula. Other than both FF and BF both feed babies, the two things are completely different.
> 
> People consistently confuse being _pro breastfeeding _with_ being anti formula_ and the two things are not the same at all.Click to expand...

why on earth is that luckily?!


----------



## cherryglitter

Dragonfly said:


> I am curious and disturbed someone answered it was never ok to breastfeed on the poll.

that would be my OH :rofl: if he were on this forum! very narrowminded bless him.


----------



## Lauki

I don't see why children need to learn why breast are a part of a woman's private body. Because to me, they are not. This is something society has us believe, but to me they are to feed, nurture, nurse and comfort my child.

Edit: Not that I go around half naked all the time. But boobs aren't sexual to me anymore.


----------



## cherryglitter

if i remember rightly, in sex ed at school we were taught that boobs were for breastfeeding children but they were also 'sexual' 

maybe that's where they're going wrong.


----------



## Dragonfly

We never had sex education in school. Never where told that woman fed from breasts I think that was left to parents to do which some like mine didnt do either. Breasts not for feeding where I am from :( I do remember the shock of my family that I breastfed and the recoil where they dont visit me in case my baby is hungry. No one wants to see that stuff here. I feed in front of my friends they dont bat an eye lid and they are male. I find males are for breastfeeding more around here and dont bat an eye lid.


----------



## milf2be

Dragonfly said:


> I am curious and disturbed someone answered it was never ok to breastfeed on the poll.

same! :wacko:


----------



## cherryglitter

around here it's more the men who find it shocking to see a boob in public unless it's from some scantily clad girl on a friday night :D


----------



## Lauki

Or on Page 3 :shrug:.


----------



## cherryglitter

yup! breasts are for sex, not for feeding. 

(that's not my opinion just to add!!)


----------



## midori1999

cherryglitter said:


> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.
> 
> Do you ever wonder why they are 'pushing' BF so much?Click to expand...
> 
> not really. these things don't bother me. people feed their child, that's all that matters to me. :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> Luckily, some people look at the bigger picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Leopard said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just had a total light bulb moment; how about we all feed our kids. As long as they aren't hungry we must be doing something right!
> 
> I have a few friends in this thread and it saddens me to see such bickering. Yes breastfeeding has great benefits for both mum and bub, yes for some people formula is an easier (albeit more expensive) way to feed their children.
> 
> I will openly admit, I used to be dead against formula until joining BnB. The ladies here have shown my attitude tolerance and my attitude has changed to show them acceptance. We are all parents, and we all have different parenting styles. Does that mean our children will grow up worse then someone else? No, it simply means they will be different; as we all are!
> 
> I think you all need to realize that we are all just human. :friends: ​Click to expand...
> 
> Why on earth would anyone be _against_ formula? You are the only one that has said that on this thread and I don't think I have actually seen anyone else say that on this forum. In fact, the only reason the discussion has turned to having anything to do with formula is because people can't state _facts_ about BF without someone getting offended and because people compared the duration of BF with the duration of giving bottles/formula. Other than both FF and BF both feed babies, the two things are completely different.
> 
> People consistently confuse being _pro breastfeeding _with_ being anti formula_ and the two things are not the same at all.Click to expand...
> 
> why on earth is that luckily?!Click to expand...

Lots of reasons that I am not going to go into on this thread as it's not appropiate and why would I anyway? It's not what this thread is about and you said yourself you're only interested in the fact that babies' get fed.


----------



## cherryglitter

could've got the tone of your post wrong there then.


----------



## Dragonfly

My other half is very pro breastfeeding and his mates have said to him they wanted their babies breastfed (he probably told they that men dont have to do anything lol) but none of them would even entertain the idea the partners. Same when one had a premature baby they looked at him like he was mad when he said it would help their baby who was in a unit. Wouldnt hear of it the mum.


----------



## midori1999

I do find it weird that (some!) men, and women actually, think that breasts are for sex/sexual and not for feeding babies, since it is the fact they are there to feed babies that made them attractive to the opposite sex in the first place, since breasts = ability to feed your offspring.


----------



## Dragonfly

midori1999 said:


> I do find it weird that (some!) men, and women actually, think that breasts are for sex/sexual and not for feeding babies, since it is the fact they are there to feed babies that made them attractive to the opposite sex in the first place, since breasts = ability to feed your offspring.

yes you and I think that now knowing but believe it or not when you dont see breastfeeding or know anything about it due to constant sexialising breasts and formula thats what happens.


----------



## cherryglitter

Dragonfly said:


> My other half is very pro breastfeeding and his mates have said to him they wanted their babies breastfed (he probably told they that men dont have to do anything lol) but none of them would even entertain the idea the partners. Same when one had a premature baby they looked at him like he was mad when he said it would help their baby who was in a unit. Wouldnt hear of it the mum.

my OH isn't anti or pro he just doesn't think about it if that makes sense. babies drink bottles. that's all he's ever known.


----------



## LoraLoo

cherryglitter said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> My other half is very pro breastfeeding and his mates have said to him they wanted their babies breastfed (he probably told they that men dont have to do anything lol) but none of them would even entertain the idea the partners. Same when one had a premature baby they looked at him like he was mad when he said it would help their baby who was in a unit. Wouldnt hear of it the mum.
> 
> my OH isn't anti or pro he just doesn't think about it if that makes sense. babies drink bottles. that's all he's ever known.Click to expand...

I find alot of ppl are like that. My children have been asked twice this week if they help to feed the baby. Its like its just assumed :nope:


----------



## mum22ttc#3

Tasha said:


> My seven year old, doesnt even know that breasts are seen in society as sexual let alone my six and three year olds. I dont know how they would possibly know that unless they were being exposed to stuff that isnt age appropriate?

Couldn't agree more :thumbup:

My 8 year old doesn't know that society sees breasts as sexual and I would hope that she wouldn't find this out for a while yet. I really can't get my head around a 3 year old knowing this, totally inappropriate IMO. Even though I formula fed all 3, as did everyone I know, so DD hasn't been around breast feeding she still understands that that is what breasts are for.

I really don't understand why children are being made to grow up quicker and quicker these days. The longer I can keep my children as children, the better for me. :)


----------



## Frooty

I think kids when they reach that age should be taught about things not a 3 yr old obviously but i wouldn't want to keep my kids in denial either.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

My DH says my boobs are "on loan" to LO :haha:

Seriously though, he went on a rant to his best mate's wife about why she should BF. She thought that it would be easier to FF because her hubby would get up in the middle of the night :rofl:


----------



## Dragonfly

https://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/mannursediaries/dadprefersbreastfeeding.gif
my other half agrees.


----------



## midori1999

Ozzieshunni said:


> My DH says my boobs are "on loan" to LO :haha:
> 
> Seriously though, he went on a rant to his best mate's wife about why she should BF. She thought that it would be easier to FF because her hubby would get up in the middle of the night :rofl:

:haha:

My daughter firmly believes my 'mooks' (long story, don't ask! :haha: ) are hers and for her. She had a 'paddy' in the M&S changing rooms when I was trying on bras while she was getting hungry and she could see them and when I was examined at the breast clinic the other day she was looking on in disbelief as if to say 'excuse me, what are you doing with those, they are mine you know'. 

As for ranting DH's and night feeds, on our way home from the hospital my MIL told DH he could help with the night feeds now. When he replied he couldn't at first as I was BF, she said 'Oh, well, your SIL was clever, she FF from birth'. DH went right off on one about BF reducing the risk of SIDS etc etc. Bless him! He was a bit freaked out at first when I started mentioning natural term BF, but now he's in full support, although he does worry what others will think, mainly as I will BF anywhere and everywhere and it sort of matters for his job what people think. I, on the other hand, couldn't care less...


----------



## mum22ttc#3

Frooty said:


> I think kids when they reach that age should be taught about things not a 3 yr old obviously but i wouldn't want to keep my kids in denial either.

What age? I would never purposely keep my child in denial but I'm also not going to teach her at such a young age (8 at the moment) that some men, and women for that matter only look at breasts in a sexual way, I seriously don't see what it would achieve? 
If kids at school were saying these kinds of things and she started asking questions then personally for me that would be the age that I would start needing to explain things a little bit further.

Perhaps I'm the naive one in thinking that she doesn't need to know these kinds of things at her age, I don't know? I suppose if I could see a need for telling her then maybe I would, but as I can't then she will be staying in the dark about it for at least a little while longer. :)


----------



## Frooty

I agree 8 is a bit too young but at school some of the other kids do already know if not from the parents from society that is out of parents control?


----------



## milf2be

Ozzieshunni said:


> My DH says my boobs are "on loan" to LO :haha:
> 
> Seriously though, he went on a rant to his best mate's wife about why she should BF. She thought that it would be easier to FF because her hubby would get up in the middle of the night :rofl:

TBH i would find it pretty hurtful if someone started ranting at me about why i wasn't breastfeeding. i had to express for 6 weeks until my milk dried up because LO wouldnt latch on as i have flat napples. i feel/felt (depends what mood im in :haha:) like such a failure, yet i dont know what else i could have done apart from hold a gun to my GPs head and make him give me domperidone (for milk production) :haha:

i used to be so pro breast feeding and anti formula before and during pregnancy, but iv opened my eyes a little bit wider now iv struggled breastfeeding myself. im still very much pro breastfeeding, my opinion of 'everyone should at least try, you dont know if it wont work for you until you've tried it' is still very much the same, but i definitely have more of a open mind now and not anti formula anymore, my LO is thriving on it now at the end of the day.

it definitely has changed my practice as a student midwife too. i have to promote breastfeeding and ask women if they plan to and encourage them to (as per BFI guidelines), but i think i am a lot more sensitive and understanding with it now.

i dont really know what the point of my rant is anymore :haha: maybe dont push/rant at people about breastfeeding too much, you dont know the whole story and it does really hurt when you cant do it and feel like a failure as it is, without people doing things like that?:flower:
btw, this is no way a go at you ozzie or your OH, your post just set me off thinking about this :haha:


----------



## Laura2919

cherryglitter said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I am curious and disturbed someone answered it was never ok to breastfeed on the poll.
> 
> that would be my OH :rofl: if he were on this forum! very narrowminded bless him.Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## Laura2919

Dragonfly said:


> https://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/mannursediaries/dadprefersbreastfeeding.gif
> my other half agrees.

My FOB did nothing anyway. :rofl:


----------



## XJessicaX

My OH is massively pro-breast feeding and is fantastic at promoting it with pregnant female colleagues and their husbands!


----------



## milf2be

my OH was happy with whatever i wanted to do. couldnt have done it without him :)


----------



## Ozzieshunni

No worries. I think I was more amazed that he was supporting me. She only wanted to FF because she thought her husband would help at night. I admire women that genuinely try to BF and have trouble because of medical reasons or other issues. I believe in trying everything, within reason of course, before deciding :)


----------



## mum22ttc#3

Frooty said:


> I agree 8 is a bit too young but at school some of the other kids do already know if not from the parents from society that is out of parents control?


No, I totally agree that what they are learning from their peers is out of our control, but it is within my control to then correct them and let them know that it isn't right, women's breast shouldn't just be seen as sexual objects. 

Like I said if she does start asking questions then that is the time that I will start answering them. TBH though I really hope that her friends aren't learning these things from their parents, it kinda makes me a little sad. :)


----------



## MrsHamstra

Leopard said:


> MrsHamstra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...
> 
> I.agree. Nutrition is really the only benifit. My mom had me a month after her 15th.birthday and she was.too young to breast feed me and I was a very.sick baby. My immune system was so weak. 2yrs later my sis was born and she breast fed her she was never sick! 2yrs after her my.brother was born she breast fed him and he was never sick either. I would get the flu first, colds first, everything.Click to expand...
> 
> Too young to breastfeed? That's the only bit I'm interested in. *how was she too young to breastfeed?* Just curious.
> 
> As for immunity etc, I ended up having to be Ff because mum dried up and I've had nothing but medical problems since. However with regard to IQ, I have a higher IQ then Einstein (not telling you how high :haha:) and I was FF, throws that idea out the window :thumbup:Click to expand...

thats what the nurses told her so they advised my mom to bottle feed. Less stress on a teenage mom I bet to struggle with me not taking it. But at 18 and 20 she breast fed the other 2 and then 10 yrs apart from me I got a half brother and he was BF too.


----------



## Maid Marian

As long as the little one wants. I'm going to let my boy self-wean when he's ready, I breastfeed for him, cos breastmilk has so many benefits for him, so I don't feel it's my place to choose when he's had enough.


----------



## Laura2919

I dont think I would feel comfortable discussing breastfeeding with a man but then thats probably just me..


----------



## whit.

KatieB said:


> I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.

"It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and *the higher their IQ is"*

That's what made me lead to believe she was saying BF babies have a higher IQ. 




Blah11 said:


> Why do people try and argue scientific FACTS? BF is not just nuitrition and its widely known and accepted. The fact that you couldn't BF doesn't make you a bad parent but the benefits of breastfeeding are still there :shrug:

There have to be other factors in it. It can't just be "just because the baby is BF means it WILL have a higher IQ." How can that statement not be "offensive" to some or "hurt" someones feelings who HAD to FF after trying to BF? I don't know about anyone else but it made me feel inadequate because I *couldn't.* Like I'm failing my child.


----------



## mum22ttc#3

whit. said:


> KatieB said:
> 
> 
> I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.
> 
> "It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and *the higher their IQ is"*
> 
> That's what made me lead to believe she was saying BF babies have a higher IQ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Why do people try and argue scientific FACTS? BF is not just nuitrition and its widely known and accepted. The fact that you couldn't BF doesn't make you a bad parent but the benefits of breastfeeding are still there :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> There have to be other factors in it. It can't just be "just because the baby is BF means it WILL have a higher IQ." How can that statement not be "offensive" to some or "hurt" someones feelings who HAD to FF after trying to BF? I don't know about anyone else but it made me feel inadequate because I *couldn't.* Like I'm failing my child.Click to expand...

I honestly don't think that she said it to try and cause offence or to make you feel inadequate. :hugs:

That may well be what is proven statistically but like you say there are always going to be other factors involving someones IQ. On both sides you are going to find people with both high and low IQ's, just because you BF you are never going to be guaranteed to have a well above average child, the same as just because you have FF doesn't mean that your child is going to be underachieving either.
At the same time though you can't argue that there aren't additional benefits of BFeeding.

:)


----------



## bigbetty

Ozzieshunni said:


> Seriously though,* he went on a rant to his best mate's wife about why she should BF*. She thought that it would be easier to FF because her hubby would get up in the middle of the night :rofl:

If he'd done that to me he would have been told where to go in a not very polite way! It's no-one's business but the parents how they decide to feed their baby and a mother's decision whether or not she bf's. I most certainly wouldn't be happy with anyone telling me what to do never mind a man! 

I chose to ff from birth. I'm an intelligent woman and know all about the pro's of bf but it's not something I've ever had the urge to do and wouldn't have felt comfortable with it. Yes I considered it but I knew that I would get stressed because my heart wasn't in it and didn't want to stress my baby out either. My husband wanted me to bf but totally supported me in my decision and at the end of the day I'm happy and my baby is absolutely thriving. I make no apologies for it and I really couldn't give a flying monkey what people think of me for it. I did what was best for me and my baby.

I believe in being pro-choice and my friends who bf know I am their biggest advocate because despite it not being for me, I think bf is an amazing thing.

So what if a woman decides to ff so her partner can help with the night feeds? That is a decision for them to make and decide together and is not something to be laughed at or ridiculed by anyone just because they believe breast is best.


----------



## milf2be

whit. said:


> KatieB said:
> 
> 
> I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.
> 
> "It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and *the higher their IQ is"*
> 
> That's what made me lead to believe she was saying BF babies have a higher IQ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Why do people try and argue scientific FACTS? BF is not just nuitrition and its widely known and accepted. The fact that you couldn't BF doesn't make you a bad parent but the benefits of breastfeeding are still there :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> There have to be other factors in it. It can't just be "just because the baby is BF means it WILL have a higher IQ." How can that statement not be "offensive" to some or "hurt" someones feelings who HAD to FF after trying to BF? I don't know about anyone else but it made me feel inadequate because I *couldn't.* Like I'm failing my child.Click to expand...

breastfeeding in one variable amongst a lot of bigger ones for example, genetics, environment, education, social circumstances etc. there's no denying it isn't true but like you said there are a lot of other factors too :hugs:


----------



## Ozzieshunni

:dohh: I love how everyone thought my DH was having a go. I thought he was being supportive of me because she was saying that Martin didn't help out at night. My fault for not writing the whole story.


----------



## minties

I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?


----------



## Maid Marian

minties said:


> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?

And just let baby have the colostrum at the very least, such a small time for you, but such a big benefit to baby.


----------



## Ashley8806

Because women have a right to choose how they parent, just as you choose, and some simply choose not to. There should be no need for a FF mother to have to explain herself as to why she chose that route.


----------



## bigbetty

minties said:


> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?

How condescending! 

I didn't want to breastfeed and I don't have to explain myself to anyone. Instead of trying to make people feel bad for their choices, try supporting them for doing what they feel best for them and their baby.


----------



## minties

But they do explain, that they just didn't feel like it, which I find is a bit sad. They may have enjoyed it if they tried. I just find it a bit sad, that's all. Like I would be sad to see a mother who chose to smoke while pregnant. Her choice of course, but it still saddens me.


----------



## minties

bigbetty said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> How condescending!
> 
> I didn't want to breastfeed and I don't have to explain myself to anyone. Instead of trying to make people feel bad for their choices, try supporting them for doing what they feel best for them and their baby.Click to expand...

I'm not being condescending, I'm curious. Nothing wrong with wondering something. I seriously do not understand, that is all.


----------



## Maid Marian

minties said:


> But they do explain, that they just didn't feel like it, which I find is a bit sad. They may have enjoyed it if they tried. I just find it a bit sad, that's all. Like I would be sad to see a mother who chose to smoke while pregnant. Her choice of course, but it still saddens me.

:hugs: I understand where you're coming from hun.


----------



## angelic_one

minties said:


> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?

Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO. 

I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world. 

So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.

As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.


----------



## angelic_one

Ooh, sorry that reads like a personal attack, its not!! :D :D


----------



## Laura2919

minties said:


> bigbetty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> How condescending!
> 
> I didn't want to breastfeed and I don't have to explain myself to anyone. Instead of trying to make people feel bad for their choices, try supporting them for doing what they feel best for them and their baby.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not being condescending, I'm curious. Nothing wrong with wondering something. I seriously do not understand, that is all.Click to expand...

Thats not wondering something you said you find it 'sad' :shrug: I think your choice of words were completely wrong. 
So because we have just become parents mean we no longer are allowed choices. We have to BF because it suits you and everyone else who BFs some people just dont feel comfortable. Ever thought of that while you were just 'wondering'


----------



## minties

I'm not trying to be nasty at all. You guys are taking what I said, and you're running away with it.

It IS sad when someone is capable of doing something that would greatly benefit their child, and doesn't because they just don't feel like it. Like me for example, I could have been taking Thomas for swimming lessons, but I haven't bothered and he's already past 1 now. It would benefit him greatly. But obviously I am lazy!


----------



## mum22ttc#3

minties said:


> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?

My reasoning was that it is just something I'm not comfortable with. Not with others doing it, that doesn't fuss me in the slightest, but with me doing it. I know them feelings are wrong and thinking rationally I can see that it is the natural way but I also can't help feel that way iykwim? Nor will I feel guilty about formula feeding because of them reasons. The way I see it is as long as you are feeding your baby then who has the right to judge?

Saying that though if we do have another little one then I would like to try exclusively expressing, I really wish that I had known that it was even possible when pregnant with my others. Like I said before though as soon as I said bottle feeding it just wasn't questioned, breast wasn't even suggested?


----------



## minties

To suit me? No, it's to suit the baby, lol! I'm not asking you to do anything. I said, I find it sad if someone wont even give something a try. 

I am not losing sleep over it. I just feel how I do about it, which is sad. Doesn't mean you have to, or anyone else has to.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

I believe in trying everything once. How do you know you'll hate it if you dont try it?


----------



## Ashley8806

What would it make you feel like if someone said that they feel it's sad you chose to breastfeed just because they don't agree with it?


----------



## bigbetty

I'm sorry but you don't have to understand, you just have to accept!


----------



## Laura2919

minties said:


> I'm not trying to be nasty at all. You guys are taking what I said, and you're running away with it.
> 
> It IS sad when someone is capable of doing something that would greatly benefit their child, and doesn't because they just don't feel like it. Like me for example, I could have been taking Thomas for swimming lessons, but I haven't bothered and he's already past 1 now. It would benefit him greatly. But obviously I am lazy!

Taking a child swimming is completely different.. Its not personal like breastfeeding. Some women dont want to, some women have insecurities about their breasts, some women just dont like the idea. Whatever.... Its their choice. So I dont think they are lazy or anything else but doing what they think is best


----------



## minties

Anyway, I wont say any more because I do not want to get into an argument about something. I can feel sad about it if I like, just as you don't have to breastfeed if you don't like. I can state my feelings, you can state yours. You are happy with your choice, that is great.

P.S I am someone who did not want to breastfeed, but I gave it a go and it did work for me.


----------



## KatieB

whit. said:


> KatieB said:
> 
> 
> I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.
> 
> "It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and *the higher their IQ is"*
> 
> That's what made me lead to believe she was saying BF babies have a higher IQ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Why do people try and argue scientific FACTS? BF is not just nuitrition and its widely known and accepted. The fact that you couldn't BF doesn't make you a bad parent but the benefits of breastfeeding are still there :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> There have to be other factors in it. It can't just be "just because the baby is BF means it WILL have a higher IQ." How can that statement not be "offensive" to some or "hurt" someones feelings who HAD to FF after trying to BF? I don't know about anyone else but it made me feel inadequate because I *couldn't.* Like I'm failing my child.Click to expand...

Breastfeeding didn't work out the way I wanted it to either, I had severe problems due to Louis having a bad tongue tie. I was heartbroken as breastfeeding was all I ever wanted to do, I imagined being able to feed my baby when I was pregnant and it all went wrong. I managed to pump for months and do combined feeding (and he still had some feeds from me although these were probably more for comfort, not sure how much he actually got as my confidence had been completely knocked with it all). I didn't take this comment the wrong way as I don't think she was saying that FF babies have a lower IQ automatically, of course there are other factors, but the inference that I got from the comment was that BF babies have the benefit of boosting immunity and IQ through a mothers millk, another one of nature's miracles. That's how I took it anyway.


----------



## minties

Ashley8806 said:


> What would it make you feel like if someone said that they feel it's sad you chose to breastfeed just because they don't agree with it?

That's fine, they can feel sad. My mum is sad and dissapointed that I am breastfeeding. She is entitled to her feelings.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.


----------



## angelic_one

Oh and as for the question at the start of this thread, I would again say whatever age is right for the woman and child!

And yes, I do think the term 'sad' is incredibly judgmental and offensive to some. Plus, you do not know that BFing would necessarily benefit the baby. In my case, the negatives far outweighed the positives. A woman feeling obliged to do something she is not comfortable with would have damaging consequences for baby and child, and potentially cause a rift between them which could have worse effects than FF. Perhaps, if you're simply interested, it is worth considering the possible benefits that Formula Feeding can have.
Again I would like to point out that I AM an ardent supporter of breast feeding, I just can see both sides of the argument.


----------



## freckleonear

Let's just clear up what the science does and doesn't say about IQ. Several studies have shown that breastfeeding increases IQ, meaning that a particular baby will have a slightly higher IQ if breastfed than the *same* baby would have had if they had been formula fed. Some studies put the figure at 5.2 IQ points higher, of which 40% was probably due to maternal bonding, but the remaining 3.2 IQ points was related to the actual nutritional value of breastmilk, in particular very specific fatty acids that aren't available in formula. Other research has shown that the IQ increase is dose dependent, so the longer you breastfeed, the more it increases. You can't use anecdotal evidence to say "well abc was FF and they are smarter than XYZ who was BF", nor can you say "well I FF my LO and they are very smart" because you don't know what their IQ would have been if they had been fed differently. At the end of the day though, 5 points is a fairly small difference and, as people have already pointed out, there are lots of other factors that influence IQ.


----------



## Laura2919

minties said:


> To suit me? No, it's to suit the baby, lol! I'm not asking you to do anything. I said, I find it sad if someone wont even give something a try.
> 
> I am not losing sleep over it. I just feel how I do about it, which is sad. Doesn't mean you have to, or anyone else has to.

Personally I think its sad that you cant even have an open mind. There could be more to why they dont want to breastfeed... Why should they have to try something they dont want to. Because it benefits baby? So would a happy mum but being made to try something they dont want wont give the baby a happy mum would it?


----------



## minties

angelic_one said:


> Oh and as for the question at the start of this thread, I would again say whatever age is right for the woman and child!
> 
> And yes, I do think the term 'sad' is incredibly judgmental and offensive to some. Plus, you do not know that BFing would necessarily benefit the baby. In my case, the negatives far outweighed the positives. A woman feeling obliged to do something she is not comfortable with would have damaging consequences for baby and child, and potentially cause a rift between them which could have worse effects than FF. Perhaps, if you're simply interested, it is worth considering the possible benefits that Formula Feeding can have.
> Again I would like to point out that I AM an ardent supporter of breast feeding, I just can see both sides of the argument.

Yes I agree with what you are saying. I did not want to breastfeed at all before and during pregnancy. The idea made me very uncomfortable - like a lot of women, I view my breasts as a sexual body part. But I did not breastfeed for myself, or to be a smug bitch or anything like that, I did it for Thomas.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

I think it's even sadder that we have the same arguments over and over again.


----------



## angelic_one

Ozzieshunni said:


> I think it's even sadder that we have the same arguments over and over again.

HAHAHA!!! LIKE!! :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## mum22ttc#3

minties said:


> Ashley8806 said:
> 
> 
> What would it make you feel like if someone said that they feel it's sad you chose to breastfeed just because they don't agree with it?
> 
> That's fine, they can feel sad. My mum is sad and dissapointed that I am breastfeeding. She is entitled to her feelings.Click to expand...

I think what is sad is society's perception on breastfeeding, I know people have said how it has been pushed down their throats etc but personally I haven't seen any of that, more in fact the opposite.

If it was the norm then I probably wouldn't feel uncomfortable about myself doing it, nor I imagine would many others.

This is one of the main reasons that I am adamant that I will not be teaching my girls that breasts are just a sexual object and intend on teaching them the real reason why they are there. :flower:


----------



## angelic_one

minties said:


> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> Oh and as for the question at the start of this thread, I would again say whatever age is right for the woman and child!
> 
> And yes, I do think the term 'sad' is incredibly judgmental and offensive to some. Plus, you do not know that BFing would necessarily benefit the baby. In my case, the negatives far outweighed the positives. A woman feeling obliged to do something she is not comfortable with would have damaging consequences for baby and child, and potentially cause a rift between them which could have worse effects than FF. Perhaps, if you're simply interested, it is worth considering the possible benefits that Formula Feeding can have.
> Again I would like to point out that I AM an ardent supporter of breast feeding, I just can see both sides of the argument.
> 
> Yes I agree with what you are saying. I did not want to breastfeed at all before and during pregnancy. The idea made me very uncomfortable - like a lot of women, I view my breasts as a sexual body part. But I did not breastfeed for myself, or to be a smug bitch or anything like that, I did it for Thomas.Click to expand...

So therefore if you understand where they're coming from, perhaps you can understand that perhaps this feeling may be insurmountable for some women? :) x


----------



## mum22ttc#3

freckleonear said:


> Let's just clear up what the science does and doesn't say about IQ. Several studies have shown that breastfeeding increases IQ, meaning that a particular baby will have a slightly higher IQ if breastfed than the *same* baby would have had if they had been formula fed. Some studies put the figure at 5.2 IQ points higher, of which 40% was probably due to maternal bonding, but the remaining 3.2 IQ points was related to the actual nutritional value of breastmilk, in particular very specific fatty acids that aren't available in formula. Other research has shown that the IQ increase is dose dependent, so the longer you breastfeed, the more it increases. You can't use anecdotal evidence to say "well abc was FF and they are smarter than XYZ who was BF", nor can you say "well I FF my LO and they are very smart" because you don't know what their IQ would have been if they had been fed differently. At the end of the day though, 5 points is a fairly small difference and, as people have already pointed out, there are lots of other factors that influence IQ.

See personally I think 5 points is a fair bit. :)

Still it doesn't make me feel guilty for the way I fed, just disappointed I suppose that this sort of thing isn't told to you by the midwifes. Well at least for me is wasn't. :)


----------



## cupcake

Tasha said:


> My seven year old, doesnt even know that breasts are seen in society as sexual let alone my six and three year olds. I dont know how they would possibly know that unless they were being exposed to stuff that isnt age appropriate?

it is interesting that everyone took my words private to mean sexual. I was not saying that a 3 year old should think of breasts as sexual, I was saying that a 3 year old is able to understand private parts of your body others should not see or touch. hope that is clearer now


----------



## Ozzieshunni

But teaching personal safety has nothing to do with bfing.


----------



## whit.

mum22ttc#3 said:


> whit. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KatieB said:
> 
> 
> I don't think TigerLady was saying that FF babies will have a lower IQ? It is said that breastmilk contains fatty acids that promote brain development, am sure that is what she is referring to.
> 
> "It has been shown that the longer you BF, the better a child's immunity is and *the higher their IQ is"*
> 
> That's what made me lead to believe she was saying BF babies have a higher IQ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Why do people try and argue scientific FACTS? BF is not just nuitrition and its widely known and accepted. The fact that you couldn't BF doesn't make you a bad parent but the benefits of breastfeeding are still there :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> There have to be other factors in it. It can't just be "just because the baby is BF means it WILL have a higher IQ." How can that statement not be "offensive" to some or "hurt" someones feelings who HAD to FF after trying to BF? I don't know about anyone else but it made me feel inadequate because I *couldn't.* Like I'm failing my child.Click to expand...
> 
> I honestly don't think that she said it to try and cause offence or to make you feel inadequate. :hugs:
> 
> That may well be what is proven statistically but like you say there are always going to be other factors involving someones IQ. On both sides you are going to find people with both high and low IQ's, just because you BF you are never going to be guaranteed to have a well above average child, the same as just because you have FF doesn't mean that your child is going to be underachieving either.
> At the same time though you can't argue that there aren't additional benefits of BFeeding.
> 
> :)Click to expand...

I agree that there are additional benefits to BF - that's why I was going to do it. BUT, I see both sides now. I don't feel like because we're FF means we need to feel like we aren't doing the best for our babies because many FF moms DO feel this way especially from some BF moms. 

I'm not trying to cause an argument, was just offended by how that post was made.


----------



## minties

angelic_one said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> Oh and as for the question at the start of this thread, I would again say whatever age is right for the woman and child!
> 
> And yes, I do think the term 'sad' is incredibly judgmental and offensive to some. Plus, you do not know that BFing would necessarily benefit the baby. In my case, the negatives far outweighed the positives. A woman feeling obliged to do something she is not comfortable with would have damaging consequences for baby and child, and potentially cause a rift between them which could have worse effects than FF. Perhaps, if you're simply interested, it is worth considering the possible benefits that Formula Feeding can have.
> Again I would like to point out that I AM an ardent supporter of breast feeding, I just can see both sides of the argument.
> 
> Yes I agree with what you are saying. I did not want to breastfeed at all before and during pregnancy. The idea made me very uncomfortable - like a lot of women, I view my breasts as a sexual body part. But I did not breastfeed for myself, or to be a smug bitch or anything like that, I did it for Thomas.Click to expand...
> 
> So therefore if you understand where they're coming from, perhaps you can understand that perhaps this feeling may be insurmountable for some women? :) xClick to expand...

I do understand, I think that is why I take it to heart. Not because I'm nosey, or trying to judge someone, just that I think "that could have been me" or "that was me, and I gave it a try and I actually like it!". 

I think it's ok to feel sad that more woman don't give it a try. I do not care how Mrs So-and-so feeds her baby, it is her choice, and breastfeeding isn't for everyone. Especially if you have a physical or mental/emotional issue tied to it. 

I would just like to see more women giving it a try, I guess. I don't know. I just feel quite passionate about it I suppose. Though it's none of my business, I just have an interest in it. 

I'm not against formula at all, and Thomas has had plenty in his time. Expecially since weaning, he's had it on his cereal and things like that. Formula is great! Much better than in the old days, where my grandma boiled condensed milk on the stove.


Also there may be some cultural differences at work here. I don't feel that raising a baby is all down to it's mother and no one else should have any input. I feel it's a community effort to raise a little person.


----------



## bigbetty

Ozzieshunni said:


> I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.


I totally agree with this. 

Ok I know I've never breastfed but I know a lot of people who have encountered problems while breastfeeding and they have been straight away advised to switch to formula instead of providing proper support and help to overcome the difficulties. It's no wonder so many women feel failures when they swap to formula because of the way bf is promoted but not followed up with adequate information and help.

I also feel that there is not enough information on formula feeding - it may be seen as an easier option but it's very important to make it up correctly and many midwives and hv's advise methods that are not recommended by the World Health Organisation. Many women swap to formula from bf for various reasons and they should have just as much support at what can be a stressful time.


----------



## Laura2919

Well I didnt give it a try. I expressed instead. My babies were early so were tube fed for the first few weeks then when old enough I gave them a bottle. Im pretty happy with my choice, even though my girls were born 10 weeks early they are healthy and are happy and really enjoy cows milk :thumbup:


----------



## blinkybaby

I had an awful time of breast-feeding and switched when LO was 2 weeks old. That said, I when I have subsequent children I will still give it another go. Even a couple of hours worth of the colostrum is beneficial to baby so if that's all I can manage, then that's fair enough.

As for the original question, I think if I had managed to BF I would have aimed for between 1 and 2 years old, but as I didn't actually BF I can't say whether if I'd been successful whether I'd have wanted to carry on longer. To be honest I probably would have.xx


----------



## milf2be

Ozzieshunni said:


> I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.

agreed. my midwife was terrible. she came in and said "please dont let your baby starve, please give him some formula, promise me you will" way to make me feel like a bad mum. 

she then sent in a healthcare assistant (instead of helping me herself) who just stared at me while i struggled. :nope:

every time i tried to feed him after that he would scream because he was so frustrated.

someone was supposed to come to myself and help me but they never turned up because they were too busy.

once, i got my baby to latch on and feed and that was because someone contorted my nipple into a weird shape and he sucked until my nipple was bright red (and when i came to express later it just streamed with blood.) iv never been in so much pain, yet seeing my baby feed was one of the best moments. i just wish i could replay it again and again.:cry:

nobody believed i would be able to do it with flat nipples so they just didnt want to help.

going to go feel sorry for myself now....where did i put the chocolate???


----------



## Laura2919

I got a little folder with a breastfeeding DVD and some info sheets at Epsom Hospital. I didnt read it because I knew breastfeeding wasnt for me. I chose to express for the girls and then at 3 weeks I changed them to formula.


----------



## bigbetty

milf2be said:


> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.
> 
> agreed. my midwife was terrible. she came in and said "please dont let your baby starve, please give him some formula, promise me you will" way to make me feel like a bad mum.
> 
> she then sent in a healthcare assistant (instead of helping me herself) who just stared at me while i struggled. :nope:
> 
> every time i tried to feed him after that he would scream because he was so frustrated.
> 
> someone was supposed to come to myself and help me but they never turned up because they were too busy.
> 
> once, i got my baby to latch on and feed and that was because someone contorted my nipple into a weird shape and he sucked until my nipple was bright red (and when i came to express later it just streamed with blood.) iv never been in so much pain, yet seeing my baby feed was one of the best moments. i just wish i could replay it again and again.:cry:
> 
> nobody believed i would be able to do it with flat nipples so they just didnt want to help.
> 
> going to go feel sorry for myself now....where did i put the chocolate???Click to expand...

:hugs:


----------



## Ozzieshunni

:hugs: I think that we need to be more supportive of each other. Let's focus our efforts on making sure children don't go hungry.


----------



## whit.

freckleonear said:


> Let's just clear up what the science does and doesn't say about IQ. Several studies have shown that breastfeeding increases IQ, meaning that a particular baby will have a slightly higher IQ if breastfed than the *same* baby would have had if they had been formula fed. Some studies put the figure at 5.2 IQ points higher, of which 40% was probably due to maternal bonding, but the remaining 3.2 IQ points was related to the actual nutritional value of breastmilk, in particular very specific fatty acids that aren't available in formula. Other research has shown that the IQ increase is dose dependent, so the longer you breastfeed, the more it increases. You can't use anecdotal evidence to say "well abc was FF and they are smarter than XYZ who was BF", nor can you say "well I FF my LO and they are very smart" because you don't know what their IQ would have been if they had been fed differently. At the end of the day though, 5 points is a fairly small difference and, as people have already pointed out, there are lots of other factors that influence IQ.

Thank you, Mrs. Scientist. :haha: ;)


----------



## midori1999

Reading the stories of how women tried and wanted to BF and who it didn't work out for makes me very sad. It is one of the reasons I hate the phrase 'Happy Mummy = Happy Baby' with a vengeance. For a start, it suggests that if Mum isn't happy for whatever reason, PND perhaps, then their baby will not be or cannot be happy and that is wrong. 

This explains it far better than I can: 

https://www.howbreastfeedingworks.com/

FWIW, I didn't manage to BF my first three children for very long at all. I never carried any feelings of guilt, but I did think I'd had no choice, that it just hadn't worked out for me and I did feel regret that I 'couldn't' BF my babies. It is only because I made sure I got my own information this time and actively sought my own support and advice that I have been able to BF. It really shouldn't be like that though. :nope:


----------



## midori1999

Ozzieshunni said:


> :hugs: I think that we need to be more supportive of each other. Let's focus our efforts on making sure children don't go hungry.

And I'm putting that comment in the box along with 'Happy Mummy = Happy Baby'. :haha:

For some women, BF is extremely important and that shouldn't be undermined. How often do health professionals suggest to women having problems to give up, the important thing is their baby gets fed. Well, of course, it's important to make sure a baby doesn't starve, but how the Mum feels about her feeding choice, be that FF or BF, is important to. :flower:


----------



## Ozzieshunni

It's not the same. It's being supporting of others parenting choices. There are worse things in the world.


----------



## milf2be

Ozzieshunni said:


> It's not the same. It's being supporting of others parenting choices. There are worse things in the world.

i think in the way you meant it, it was supportive, but in the way the midwife meant it "please dont let your baby starve" was more what the PP meant :flower:


----------



## Arisa

Blah11 said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...
> 
> what would a psychiatrist know about breastfeeding lol
> 
> How lovely of you to call a friends child dumb too btw.Click to expand...

You are the one who sounds rather foolish, why would he not know?
He has children himself and he was making a point. FF babies are just as smart, it depends on how you raise them, the time you take to teach them and so on.
So should I lie and say the child is a genius instead?


----------



## midori1999

milf2be said:


> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> It's not the same. It's being supporting of others parenting choices. There are worse things in the world.
> 
> i think in the way you meant it, it was supportive, but in the way the midwife meant it "please dont let your baby starve" was more what the PP meant :flower:Click to expand...

That's exactly what I meant, in a lot of cases those type of phrases are exactly the opposite of being supportive of other people's parenting choices.


----------



## midori1999

Arisa said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit. said:
> 
> 
> So since my baby isn't breastfed, EVEN THOUGH I TRIED and *couldn't*, your child who is breastfed will have a higher IQ than mine?
> 
> No way. My psychiatrist was bottle fed, he told me and he seems to think it makes no difference on I.Q or else he would not have been a successful registrar first lol before becoming a qualified psychiatrist.
> 
> My friends three kids are breastfed, well they were and the middle one is really well for lack of a better word docile and a bit dumb. It does not make a difference when it comes to Intelligence.Click to expand...
> 
> what would a psychiatrist know about breastfeeding lol
> 
> How lovely of you to call a friends child dumb too btw.Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one who sounds rather foolish, why would he not know?
> He has children himself and he was making a point. FF babies are just as smart, it depends on how you raise them, the time you take to teach them and so on.
> So should I lie and say the child is a genius instead?Click to expand...

There's no need to resort to personal attacks and saying people sound foolish. :nope:

The PP has a point, why would someone being a psychiatrist make any difference to what someone knew about BF? (and lots of people who do BF don't actually know all that much about it either, I have met more than several health professionals involved in the care of pregnant and lactating women who also BF that don't really know much about it at all)

Just because you (or your psychiatrist!) don't agree with scientific fact doesn't mean it's not true.


----------



## Maid Marian

milf2be said:


> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.
> 
> agreed. my midwife was terrible. she came in and said "please dont let your baby starve, please give him some formula, promise me you will" way to make me feel like a bad mum.Click to expand...

Ugh, I had a MW just like that. Told me I was starving my baby and it wasn't fair on him - that was the lowest point in my life. She kept cajoling and bullying me to let her give him formula, but somehow I managed to keep my foot down and just kept fobbing her off with 'i'll think about it' until i could go home. 
MWs really need to be much more well-informed on all things baby related, including breastfeeding. It's a bloody hard thing to get started and learn, for mum and baby, and we need a lot of support and reassurance that it is normal ... not a witch standing in the corner pushing formula on us when our baby's not even a day old!


----------



## Tasha

Arisa said:


> You are the one who sounds rather foolish, why would he not know?
> He has children himself and he was making a point. FF babies are just as smart, it depends on how you raise them, the time you take to teach them and so on.
> So should I lie and say the child is a genius instead?

Calling any child dumb is just plain rude and wrong.


----------



## bathbabe

Whats the natural weaning age? About 6 or something isnt it?


----------



## freckleonear

bathbabe said:


> Whats the natural weaning age? About 6 or something isnt it?

The natural weaning age is anywhere between 2.5 years and about 7 years when they lose their milk teeth, the worldwide average is 4.5 years.


----------



## Dragonfly

bathbabe said:


> Whats the natural weaning age? About 6 or something isnt it?

No 4 years old is it not?


----------



## Arisa

DarlingMe said:


> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> don't forget that BF is being 'pushed' so of course they will talk about all the benefits of BF and promote them.
> they're not going to do that with formula as it would go against everything they're trying to do. _even if_ there are some benefits to formula.
> 
> Funny you say breastfeeding is pushed. I think most nursing moms feel formula is pushed. I honestly have never heard any benefits specifically from formula, besides false ones. Everyone talks about the BF benefits because there are so many.
> 
> For example, "FF fed babies sleep longer" my Exclusively breastfed baby has slept 12 hours waking once for a feed since 12 weeks. Fact is BF moms get more sleep on average due to the sync in hormones and sleep cycles.
> 
> "FF is easier": IMO it is easier not to wash bottles, mix formula, purchase formula, heat it, and then have to make sure LO drinks it all someone is wasted. I always have my milk mixed, at the perfect temp, in a clean "bottle".
> 
> *"if I BF than my husband can't get up at night with the baby!" how many husbands actually do this more than once a week max??*
> 
> "no one else can feed the baby" well they can, you can always pump. But there are plenty of other ways to bond besides feeding.
> 
> Of course formula is great when needed and can be beneficial but I don't see any benefits to formula over breastmilk, that is why no one talks about them.
> 
> Sorry OP this has definately turned into one of those threads...Click to expand...

I do not think its fair to categorize all men like that. My dad was extremely hands on and got up in the night with us as well. 

I also find it rude that someones husband would have a go at a woman for not breastfeeding, who does he think he is?? :growlmad:


----------



## mum22ttc#3

Tasha said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> You are the one who sounds rather foolish, why would he not know?
> He has children himself and he was making a point. FF babies are just as smart, it depends on how you raise them, the time you take to teach them and so on.
> So should I lie and say the child is a genius instead?
> 
> Calling any child dumb is just plain rude and wrong.Click to expand...

Was just going to write the same thing. I would be majorly pissed of if I ever heard what was meant to be a 'friend' calling my child dumb, not to mention rather hurt.


----------



## midori1999

Saying:

* "if I BF than my husband can't get up at night with the baby!" how many husbands actually do this more than once a week max??*

Is not categorising anyone, it is asking a question.

This thread, although not back on track was actually going pretty well and some women were even able to share their experiences of BF not working out for them and how health professionals, who should have been supporting them, really let them down. Lets not turn it back into an arguement.


----------



## Meredith2010

With my first (and only) post so far in this thread I tried to keep it on topic with the question, but seeing as it has of course turned into a bf vs ff debate I thought I'd put my two pence in and also comment on some of the things already said...

I bf for 8 weeks (with some expressing so hubby could do the odd feed) and was very lucky in that I had absolutely no issues whatsoever. LO latched on perfectly from day one, and other than him getting a bit upset in the early days before my milk came in, there were no issues. I never had mastitis, sore nipples or anything like that. I also found that bf WAS pushed by midwives, health visitors etc and the impression I got was certainly that everyone is expected to bf initially. We had a bf nurse/specialist (can't remember the official term) who was in the hospital full time and came round and saw all the mothers on our ward within the first few hours after birth. We could also call her and she would come and help with latching on etc at any time during the hospital stay.

I always expected to bf and didn't know anything about formula - how to make it up, what the different brands were, what bottles to use etc (I had bought some bottles but these were to fit the breast pump for expressing).

However, despite my assumption that I would bf, the huge support I had (honestly formula feeding just wasn't mentioned to me), and the fact that bf for me was so easy, I STILL chose to switch to formula feeding after 8 weeks. I am an intelligent, educated woman with more support around me that I would ever need but still I prefer to formula feed my LO. There is no support, education or anything like that which would have changed my mind.

I am fully aware of the advantages of bf (to whatever age) and would never be so foolish as to try to deny them. However, I think any advantages have to be put into context alongside all other aspects of mothering. For example, bf may be "better" nutritionally and developmentally for LO, but if by bfing the mother becomes exhausted, stressed, etc then baby will suffer from that therefore the benefits start to diminish.

I do think that a lot of ffers are very (too?) sensitive about it, and are very quick to accuse people who breastfeed of trying to make them feel guilty. The facts and benefits of breastfeeding really can't be denied, and people stating them doesn't mean they are trying to make those ff feel bad! Nothing anyone said could ever make me feel bad about formula feeding as there is not an ounce of guilt in my body. I understand that this is probably because I choose to do it and wasn't forced into it by not being able to bf, but it is unfair of people who feel bad about not bfing to blame those who can for making them feel bad. No one would ever say "you weren't able to breastfeed therefore you are a failure" - and people who breastfeed should be allowed to talk about it and it's benefits without fearing they will be accused of making others feel bad. Having said that, I think that there are some bfers who are very closed minded about formula feeding and could benefit from opening their eyes to other possibilities a little bit.

Wow, I've gone on and on, I'm not really sure what my point it lol! At the end of the day, if and how long people choose to bf for is down to the individual and I don't think it is for other people to dictate what is and what isn't acceptable. I personally wouldn't do it beyond a year or thereabouts, but others can do whatever they like. Yes, it may not be something I'd do and I have various reasons for thinking this way but I have no right to impose my views on other people.


----------



## ashley2pink

angelic_one said:


> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...

The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.


----------



## blinkybaby

To be honest, I think BFing is pushed in the pregnancy stage because it is in the WHO guidlelines or whatever it is, but then in the post-partum stage because there is not enough funding for continued sustained support for women who choose to BF, it is formula that is pushed as an easy option and one that doesn't take up health professionals valuable time and resources. Moral of the story is that more funding is needed into helping women who are stuggling!xxx


----------



## Maid Marian

ashley2pink said:


> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compared to what comes after!!

SO so true! Mws and doctors should make this more widely known before the baby arrives. Breastfeeding is often very very difficult: a steep learning curve, but the struggling is more than worth the goal.


----------



## rwhite

Rose_W said:


> milf2be said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.
> 
> agreed. my midwife was terrible. she came in and said "please dont let your baby starve, please give him some formula, promise me you will" way to make me feel like a bad mum.Click to expand...
> 
> Ugh, I had a MW just like that. Told me I was starving my baby and it wasn't fair on him - that was the lowest point in my life. She kept cajoling and bullying me to let her give him formula, but somehow I managed to keep my foot down and just kept fobbing her off with 'i'll think about it' until i could go home.
> MWs really need to be much more well-informed on all things baby related, including breastfeeding. It's a bloody hard thing to get started and learn, for mum and baby, and we need a lot of support and reassurance that it is normal ... not a witch standing in the corner pushing formula on us when our baby's not even a day old!Click to expand...


I think this is exactly how women are convinced by so called medical professionals into believing that their children are starving. It's awful. Obviously this isn't a common occurance but it just baffles me. I see your LO is still going strong at 5 months so I don't know what that midwife was talking about :wacko: x

I am thankful that here in NZ things are really quite pro-breastfeeding. There are lactation consultants on site at the hospital (or at least my one there was) and when I was having some issues when my son was only a day or two old I was offered support but didn't end up needing it. There are also free breastfeeding support classes like La Leche League dotted around the place. It was great that the support was there, too, and my midwife was wonderful. I would imagine if a midwife said something so anti-bfing here (like yours did) they would be in a bit of trouble, and you're right in saying the support and reassurance is so important to build up a woman's confidence.

And, ladies, at the end of the day it is okay to supplement! Don't feel you have to do one or the other, but usually it is important to establish baby on the boob in the early days if at all possible so that there is less likelihood of nipple confusion :flow:


----------



## XJessicaX

https://www.ajcn.org/content/70/4/525.short 
https://www.ajcn.org/content/70/4/433.short
Interesting reads on breastfeeding and cognitive development. The IQ difference is only 2-7 points.


----------



## ashley2pink

Rose_W said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compared to what comes after!!
> 
> SO so true! Mws and doctors should make this more widely known before the baby arrives. Breastfeeding is often very very difficult: a steep learning curve, but the struggling is more than worth the goal.Click to expand...

I know not everyone has it hard that long, but I sure did with my 2nd. Sure she latched and nursed fine, but I was very overwhelmed with her constant cluster feedings. With my newest lo it wasn't that long, maybe 2 months. But I knew I'd get past it and feedings would be looked forward to!!


----------



## bathbabe

freckleonear said:


> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> Whats the natural weaning age? About 6 or something isnt it?
> 
> The natural weaning age is anywhere between 2.5 years and about 7 years when they lose their milk teeth, the worldwide average is 4.5 years.Click to expand...

I knew it was something to do with teeth.
My friend didnt loose her milk teeth till she was 18! :shock: her dentist was amazed :haha: 

Anyway - if you bf, bf for however long you both feel comfortable, after all i assuming not many people would feel comfortable breastfeeding a 15+ old?!
- if you FF (as i do) do so for however long you feel fit, there is formula out now for 2-3 years that im assuming you could use for longer, if you wanted to. :shrug: 

Yes BF has many benefits, but lets face it, not everybody wants to, or can, or is even bothered about it, some people do choose to FF because their partner can help during the night, so what? Thats their choice.

I FF from birth, i had no interest in BFing :shrug:
However, i WILL at least attempt and give it ago with the next baby, i dunno why, just a change of heart i guess.

ETA: I probs would of attempted BF with harrison if we would of known how much my OH would be able to do with him (OH has a disability) but we figured that he would be ok with feeding him. I probs would of taken more interest in BF too if i was a single parent or OH didnt have a disability and didnt express an interest in wanting to be involved with feeding.


----------



## midori1999

I BF and my husband can help in the night. In fact, I even went out and got rather drunk a week or so agao and my husband took care of the baby from 6pm until 2pm the next day. BF isn't as restrictive as some people think.


----------



## mrs_park

I think we all need to stop and just breath... Being a new mum is bloody hard regardless of whether you bf or ff (I combi fed for the first 6 weeks so I experienced the best and worst of both worlds). So let's just be kind to one and other :hugs:

I watched a story on the drought crisis in Africa a while back. There are women there who have NOTHING to feed their babies. When they do get some water, theyve had to walk for miles and miles to find it and generally it's filthy, dirty and disease ridden. Can you imagine that as a mother to give their child something that could make them sick or give them nothing. This is going on right now, as we argue about our choice to bf or ff. 

Instead of bickering and fighting, and getting worked up and angry, let's think about our sisters who have issues that are worth getting upset about!


----------



## angelic_one

bathbabe said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bathbabe said:
> 
> 
> Whats the natural weaning age? About 6 or something isnt it?
> 
> I knew it was something to do with teeth.
> My friend didnt loose her milk teeth till she was 18! :shock: her dentist was amazed :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off topic, but I'm 22 and I still have mine. Apparently I always will :) xClick to expand...


----------



## whistle

milf2be said:


> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> I think that the amount of info and support for bfing moms is sooooooo limited. That's what's really sad.
> 
> agreed. my midwife was terrible. she came in and said "please dont let your baby starve, please give him some formula, promise me you will" way to make me feel like a bad mum.
> 
> she then sent in a healthcare assistant (instead of helping me herself) who just stared at me while i struggled. :nope:
> 
> every time i tried to feed him after that he would scream because he was so frustrated.
> 
> someone was supposed to come to myself and help me but they never turned up because they were too busy.
> 
> once, i got my baby to latch on and feed and that was because someone contorted my nipple into a weird shape and he sucked until my nipple was bright red (and when i came to express later it just streamed with blood.) iv never been in so much pain, yet seeing my baby feed was one of the best moments. i just wish i could replay it again and again.:cry:
> 
> nobody believed i would be able to do it with flat nipples so they just didnt want to help.
> 
> going to go feel sorry for myself now....where did i put the chocolate???Click to expand...

Poor you. This is horrible. :nope::hugs:


----------



## angelic_one

As far as support goes it is definitely a factor. Part of the problem with my LO is that she was born on 23rd, just before christmas and the new year, so the support that should have been there, e.g. breastfeeding clubs, health visitor visits, was much worse than it really should have been due to holidays. I had no idea what I was doing, what she needed, etc. Looking back now, I think I was over-producing and that was causing a lot of my problems...but because of the lack of support I had no idea!

Ultimately though mrs park is right. I had the same sort of experience as her, and I do think that experiencing both sides of the coin makes you appreciate much more, how horrible it is that we even have this argument and that we should be more accepting of people's decisions.


----------



## kit10grl

whit. said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> Let's just clear up what the science does and doesn't say about IQ. Several studies have shown that breastfeeding increases IQ, meaning that a particular baby will have a slightly higher IQ if breastfed than the *same* baby would have had if they had been formula fed. Some studies put the figure at 5.2 IQ points higher, of which 40% was probably due to maternal bonding, but the remaining 3.2 IQ points was related to the actual nutritional value of breastmilk, in particular very specific fatty acids that aren't available in formula. Other research has shown that the IQ increase is dose dependent, so the longer you breastfeed, the more it increases. You can't use anecdotal evidence to say "well abc was FF and they are smarter than XYZ who was BF", nor can you say "well I FF my LO and they are very smart" because you don't know what their IQ would have been if they had been fed differently. At the end of the day though, 5 points is a fairly small difference and, as people have already pointed out, there are lots of other factors that influence IQ.
> 
> Thank you, Mrs. Scientist. :haha: ;)Click to expand...

This ^^ The IQ infromation is in regards to FF or BF the SAME child, If a child is destined to have an IQ of say 50 and is FF his IQ is 50 if hes BF its 55. FF isnt doing any harm. BF can give benefits like the many others ie immunity for mum and baby etc but thats a mothers decision to make and they shouldnt feel guilty about it. And the same as every other aspect of development comparing kids is just stupid cos there ALL different. For the record i was FF and have a pretty high IQ




cupcake said:


> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> My seven year old, doesnt even know that breasts are seen in society as sexual let alone my six and three year olds. I dont know how they would possibly know that unless they were being exposed to stuff that isnt age appropriate?
> 
> it is interesting that everyone took my words private to mean sexual. I was not saying that a 3 year old should think of breasts as sexual, I was saying that a 3 year old is able to understand private parts of your body others should not see or touch. hope that is clearer nowClick to expand...

I understood what you were saying originally. For others the point was that at three years old a child should really know where its not ok for people to touch them. Inevitably you teach a little girl ppl shouldnt be touching her breasts she will want to know why its ok for her to touch her mothers? Its not about teaching her their for sex its about protecting herself. And yes that would then tie in with the same three year old beginning to feel uncomfortable bfing in public and weaning them off.

I feel so bad that everyone else seems to have got such crappy bfing support. I got great advice while pregnant, dvds, leafltes, a whole class at antenatal group dedicated to feeding in general with a focus on bfing as everyone in the group wanted to try it. Afterwards the midwives didnt want me to leave the hospital till i had breastfeeding established (4 days) and i was never offered formula at any point but it was avaiable if i had asked. My first three days home i had lactation speacialsts sent out and given the numbers of 3 different ocal groups. Even after serious weight loss when they reccomended i give some formula they were really supportive of letting me decide if i wanted to. Our peadeatriian had a trainee in with him (both male) and gave him a long talk during about how great it was i was still bfing and how to give supoort and how never to underestimate how tiring it can be etc.

Iabsolutly couldnt fault the support i got. But on the other hand my sister and freind went through the same unit idid and both FF and never felt they were pushed to bf or made to feel bad for their choice


----------



## Dragonfly

midori1999 said:


> I BF and my husband can help in the night. In fact, I even went out and got rather drunk a week or so agao and my husband took care of the baby from 6pm until 2pm the next day. BF isn't as restrictive as some people think.

My other half is the cook and cleaner :smug: I get hot chocolate made for me as I have two attached to me and cant possibly get it myself :haha:


----------



## midori1999

Dragonfly said:


> midori1999 said:
> 
> 
> I BF and my husband can help in the night. In fact, I even went out and got rather drunk a week or so agao and my husband took care of the baby from 6pm until 2pm the next day. BF isn't as restrictive as some people think.
> 
> My other half is the cook and cleaner :smug: I get hot chocolate made for me as I have two attached to me and cant possibly get it myself :haha:Click to expand...

That sounds like a plan! :haha:


----------



## bigbetty

ashley2pink said:


> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...

Some people just can't seem to do right can they? So apparently it's sad when a mother doesn't attempt to breastfeed and that even just having colostrum can be a major benefit to a baby, but when someone really tries for 8 weeks to get it to work then swaps she hasn't tried long enough?

I think your reply is judgemental and totally pointless - there's nothing she can do about it now! She should be praised for trying instead of being told she didn't try hard enough. So you made it through the tough time and came out all happy at the other end - not everyone is as lucky as you and you have no right to make a comment like that when she so obviously did her best.


----------



## angelic_one

ashley2pink said:


> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...

Respectfully, I challenge the assumption that it will get better for every body. I didn't just give it a half-hearted 2 week attempt, I put my heart and soul in it for eight whole weeks. The reason for me quitting was not pain, although that was a factor, it was psychological and emotional reasons. For me, breastfeeding was a barrier to bonding, and caused a great deal of horrific depression and unhappiness. All I could do was obsess over feeding, I could not be a mother, I could not care or nurture. I could only just survive. There is absolutely no guarantee that these things would have got better, and if they had, whether it would have been too late. 
Then once I thought about giving up I cried for hours and hours wrestling with my conscious, tearing myself apart over it. The second I finally did give up, that was it. It was gone, immediately. And I began to bond with my daughter straight away.

I just think it is worth bearing in mind that the assumption that 'it gets better with time' relates only really to the physical pain or confusion.


----------



## LockandKey

I said 2-3 years, although I plan on bf DD until around 18 months, maybe a bit more, I've found that the women in my family bf their lo's until 2 or beyond.


----------



## mrs_park

angelic_one said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...
> 
> Respectfully, I challenge the assumption that it will get better for every body. I didn't just give it a half-hearted 2 week attempt, I put my heart and soul in it for eight whole weeks. The reason for me quitting was not pain, although that was a factor, it was psychological and emotional reasons. For me, breastfeeding was a barrier to bonding, and caused a great deal of horrific depression and unhappiness. All I could do was obsess over feeding, I could not be a mother, I could not care or nurture. I could only just survive. There is absolutely no guarantee that these things would have got better, and if they had, whether it would have been too late.
> Then once I thought about giving up I cried for hours and hours wrestling with my conscious, tearing myself apart over it. The second I finally did give up, that was it. It was gone, immediately. And I began to bond with my daughter straight away.
> 
> I just think it is worth bearing in mind that the assumption that 'it gets better with time' relates only really to the physical pain or confusion.Click to expand...

:hugs: and hats off to you, sounds like you had a horrific time and you ended up making the right decision for you and your baby xx


----------



## milf2be

hmmm anyone who doesnt think i tried hard enough can come and help me next time i have a baby. i tried everything: latch assist, expressing to get nipple out - didnt make a difference it disappeared within 2 seconds


----------



## angelic_one

mrs_park said:


> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...
> 
> Respectfully, I challenge the assumption that it will get better for every body. I didn't just give it a half-hearted 2 week attempt, I put my heart and soul in it for eight whole weeks. The reason for me quitting was not pain, although that was a factor, it was psychological and emotional reasons. For me, breastfeeding was a barrier to bonding, and caused a great deal of horrific depression and unhappiness. All I could do was obsess over feeding, I could not be a mother, I could not care or nurture. I could only just survive. There is absolutely no guarantee that these things would have got better, and if they had, whether it would have been too late.
> Then once I thought about giving up I cried for hours and hours wrestling with my conscious, tearing myself apart over it. The second I finally did give up, that was it. It was gone, immediately. And I began to bond with my daughter straight away.
> 
> I just think it is worth bearing in mind that the assumption that 'it gets better with time' relates only really to the physical pain or confusion.Click to expand...
> 
> :hugs: and hats off to you, sounds like you had a horrific time and you ended up making the right decision for you and your baby xxClick to expand...


:hugs::hugs: Yeah thank you, it definitely was, I really don't think I'd be as close to her if I'd have carried on, sadly. It's still hard every time she's ill though a part of me wonders whether she would be if I'd carried on. :cry:

But I don't regret it. I'd do anything for her, but that's included kicking my depression and being healthy and able to care for her. In our situation, that is the far more loving, difficult and bravest thing that I could do. :shrug:


----------



## cat lover

angelic_one said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...
> 
> Respectfully, I challenge the assumption that it will get better for every body. I didn't just give it a half-hearted 2 week attempt, I put my heart and soul in it for eight whole weeks. The reason for me quitting was not pain, although that was a factor, it was psychological and emotional reasons. For me, breastfeeding was a barrier to bonding, and caused a great deal of horrific depression and unhappiness. All I could do was obsess over feeding, I could not be a mother, I could not care or nurture. I could only just survive. There is absolutely no guarantee that these things would have got better, and if they had, whether it would have been too late.
> Then once I thought about giving up I cried for hours and hours wrestling with my conscious, tearing myself apart over it. The second I finally did give up, that was it. It was gone, immediately. And I began to bond with my daughter straight away.
> 
> I just think it is worth bearing in mind that the assumption that 'it gets better with time' relates only really to the physical pain or confusion.Click to expand...

I think this is a fair point, we must bear in mind emotional health. I think its a little bit rude to tell people they have given up 'too soon' and its this type of thing that can make some people think BFers are holier than thou which isn't generally the case. I combi feed and totally get and understand the benefits of BFing, they are scientifically proven. But bonding with your baby is more important than how he /she is fed and no baby comes to any harm by being FF.

PLEASE can we respect each other and be friends? Its a bit of a shame that this has turned into yet another BF / FF debate - its every mothers right to choose how she feeds her baby - as long as we are happy with how we are feeding our own, we shouldn't be at all bothered.

I don't mean to be nasty here at all, just feel we have done this to death and should just respect each others choices


----------



## ashley2pink

angelic_one said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...
> 
> Respectfully, I challenge the assumption that it will get better for every body. I didn't just give it a half-hearted 2 week attempt, I put my heart and soul in it for eight whole weeks. The reason for me quitting was not pain, although that was a factor, it was psychological and emotional reasons. For me, breastfeeding was a barrier to bonding, and caused a great deal of horrific depression and unhappiness. All I could do was obsess over feeding, I could not be a mother, I could not care or nurture. I could only just survive. There is absolutely no guarantee that these things would have got better, and if they had, whether it would have been too late.
> Then once I thought about giving up I cried for hours and hours wrestling with my conscious, tearing myself apart over it. The second I finally did give up, that was it. It was gone, immediately. And I began to bond with my daughter straight away.
> 
> I just think it is worth bearing in mind that the assumption that 'it gets better with time' relates only really to the physical pain or confusion.Click to expand...

I was depressed for 3 months as well. I know it was because I was having a hard time with constant nursings and feeling like my baby was attached to me 24/7. I bonded with her much more after that-it was amazing. My physical pain was gone after 2 weeks btw.
You guys are looking too much into what I said as if I said you are failures. I'm trying to get out there that yes, it can be immensely difficult. But it does get better. For those out there who are in the early weeks of bf'ing and wanting to give up, I urge them to stick with it. Because it does get better. All I know is I am sooo happy I didn't stop bf'ing her and that I stuck with it. I would live with guilt had I stopped. That's me though.
She nursed for 2 years. I plan on doing at least 2 years again.


----------



## mum22ttc#3

bigbetty said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...
> 
> Some people just can't seem to do right can they? So apparently it's sad when a mother doesn't attempt to breastfeed and that even just having colostrum can be a major benefit to a baby, but when someone really tries for 8 weeks to get it to work then swaps she hasn't tried long enough?
> 
> I think your reply is judgemental and totally pointless - there's nothing she can do about it now! She should be praised for trying instead of being told she didn't try hard enough. So you made it through the tough time and came out all happy at the other end - not everyone is as lucky as you and you have no right to make a comment like that when she so obviously did her best.Click to expand...

I've got to say I agree :thumbup:

I don't know whether you meant it or not but your post did come across as very judgemental and if I'm honest rather a little rude. It's like your saying she wasn't willing yet you was, she didn't try hard enough but you tried harder.

Like BigBetty said, should she not be praised for at least trying for the 8 weeks that she did.


----------



## angelic_one

cat lover said:


> I think this is a fair point, we must bear in mind emotional health. *I think its a little bit rude to tell people they have given up 'too soon' and its this type of thing that can make some people think BFers are holier than thou which isn't generally the case.* I combi feed and totally get and understand the benefits of BFing, they are scientifically proven. But bonding with your baby is more important than how he /she is fed and no baby comes to any harm by being FF.
> 
> *PLEASE can we respect each other and be friends? Its a bit of a shame that this has turned into yet another BF / FF debate - its every mothers right to choose how she feeds her baby - as long as we are happy with how we are feeding our own, we shouldn't be at all bothered.*
> 
> I don't mean to be nasty here at all, just feel we have done this to death and should just respect each others choices

^^^^ 
This, exactly.

I don't normally get involved with these types of debates because I can see both sides of the argument and it saddens me that people can't be more understanding. But I do find it offensive the condescending attitude that it would have been alright if i'd stuck to it. How can anyone possibly know that? Magic Mirror? :(


----------



## Natsku

OH has just revealed that he wants me to breastfeed Maria til she's 8 :shock:



I understand where Ashley2pink is coming from, I am so glad I stuck with breastfeeding even though the first two months were horrible, because now its so easy. But I did come close to giving up and totally understand why people would give up at that point. Prob the only thing that stopped me giving up was the price of formula :haha:


----------



## Frooty

Formula has been made very carefully to give the same amount of nutrition as breast milk its just the complex is different.


----------



## Natsku

Formula doesn't have the fatty acids though, does it?


----------



## ashley2pink

Natsku said:


> OH has just revealed that he wants me to breastfeed Maria til she's 8 :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand where Ashley2pink is coming from, I am so glad I stuck with breastfeeding even though the first two months were horrible, because now its so easy. But I did come close to giving up and totally understand why people would give up at that point. Prob the only thing that stopped me giving up was the price of formula :haha:

Was he serious? I think I would like if my husband wanted me to nurse a long time. Not 8, but if he told me he would like me to continue until 4 years I probably would! He told me 2 years tho-which is how long I went.


----------



## angelic_one

mum22ttc#3 said:


> bigbetty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> angelic_one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minties said:
> 
> 
> I find it sad when a woman wont even give it a try. At least give it 2 weeks. Why would you not want to at least try?
> 
> Why is it? It should be a woman's choice! I think its far sadder that mothers will make other mothers feel guilty for trying to do what's best for them and their LO.
> 
> I personally feel on the line between BF-ers and FF-ers. I was determined to BF when I was pregnant, but after 8 weeks of trying desperately, I had to give up. And do you know what? It was, hands down, the best decision I ever made for me and my whole family. I had barely loved my daughter before, I hated feeding so much. From the day I stopped I never looked back, she became my best friend in the whole world.
> 
> So I can strongly see both sides of the argument. I understand BF-ers passion for BFing, and I understand why someone would give up. I also now understand why someone would not try in the first place, as I'm pretty sure I would not if I have another.
> 
> As far as I am concerned the ONLY important thing in this whole debate, is to RESPECT EACH AND EVERY MOTHER'S DECISION, WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. And try and show some compassion, and understanding, and take a moment to think, that just maybe, they know what's best for their family.Click to expand...
> 
> The first 3 months are hard. That doesn't mean that's how bf'ing will be the entire time. I was willing to have it hard for a very small amount of time. In the long run, that period of difficulty, is nothing compare to the wonderful part comes after.
> I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon. It IS hard at first. Trust me, when you get past that, it's amazing. You won't even remember the struggle.Click to expand...
> 
> Some people just can't seem to do right can they? So apparently it's sad when a mother doesn't attempt to breastfeed and that even just having colostrum can be a major benefit to a baby, but when someone really tries for 8 weeks to get it to work then swaps she hasn't tried long enough?
> 
> I think your reply is judgemental and totally pointless - there's nothing she can do about it now! She should be praised for trying instead of being told she didn't try hard enough. So you made it through the tough time and came out all happy at the other end - not everyone is as lucky as you and you have no right to make a comment like that when she so obviously did her best.Click to expand...
> 
> I've got to say I agree :thumbup:
> 
> I don't know whether you meant it or not but your post did come across as very judgemental and if I'm honest rather a little rude. It's like your saying she wasn't willing yet you was, she didn't try hard enough but you tried harder.
> 
> Like BigBetty said, should she not be praised for at least trying for the 8 weeks that she did.Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly this. And then carrying on to say 'Well I was depressed too but I carried on..' well clearly you couldn't have been as bad as I was as I clearly explained that I was unable to care for my baby... 

I understand the point you're trying to make here is saying 'don't give up, keep going' to those who might be thinking of giving up, and I applaud your enthusiasm, we should all try and support breast feeders and formula feeders alike, but in the same stroke you are coming across as attacking those for whom giving up was simply the lesser of two evils... :)


----------



## Natsku

ashley2pink said:


> Natsku said:
> 
> 
> OH has just revealed that he wants me to breastfeed Maria til she's 8 :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand where Ashley2pink is coming from, I am so glad I stuck with breastfeeding even though the first two months were horrible, because now its so easy. But I did come close to giving up and totally understand why people would give up at that point. Prob the only thing that stopped me giving up was the price of formula :haha:
> 
> Was he serious? I think I would like if my husband wanted me to nurse a long time. Not 8, but if he told me he would like me to continue until 4 years I probably would! He told me 2 years tho-which is how long I went.Click to expand...

I'm never sure if he is serious or not but he is very pro-bf.


----------



## bigbetty

ashley2pink said:


> I was depressed for 3 months as well. I know it was because I was having a hard time with constant nursings and feeling like my baby was attached to me 24/7. I bonded with her much more after that-it was amazing. My physical pain was gone after 2 weeks btw.
> You guys are looking too much into what I said as if I said you are failures. I'm trying to get out there that yes, it can be immensely difficult. But it does get better. For those out there who are in the early weeks of bf'ing and wanting to give up, I urge them to stick with it. Because it does get better. All I know is I am sooo happy I didn't stop bf'ing her and that I stuck with it. I would live with guilt had I stopped.
> She nursed for 2 years. I plan on doing at least 2 years again.

I'm sorry but your comment "I feel those who wanted to bf but gave up early on because it didn't work for them, gave up too soon" is extremely critical - especially since you don't know how that person felt. Yes you have experienced the pain and mental anguish yourself and have overcome it, but that doesn't mean you know exactly how every other mother who struggles to bf is feeling. You were happy that you continued to bf, Nat was happy she decided to stop and change to formula - at the end of the day you are both happy mother's with beautiful, healthy and happy babies.

You might not have said they are failures but your comments make make it sound like you think they are. Perhaps you should think about how you word things if that wasn't your intention.


----------



## ashley2pink

I was explaining my part. Just as you stated you were depressed and stopped bf'ing, I told you my side that I was depressed and kept trudging through. I want others to know that I did start enjoying it. Just as you want others to know it's ok to give formula. I'm not disagreeing with you. Formula is fine. I can't just sit here with my experience and not say a darn thing when someone could be reading and be on the fence about which way to go. I will keep saying that I had it difficult, BUT I hung in there and it DID get worlds better. I completely enjoyed bf and I am overjoyed that I stuck with. I don't care what you do. So please stop telling me that I must think I'm better. Now you're the one not being fair. I am able to state my side as well just as you are. Stop picking it apart


----------



## Mummyjessie

I also was only able to bf for a few weeks. Due to DD being in SCBU she had EBM in very minute quantities for a few weeks and I was only able to BF for a short time. Due to being so unwell I was unable to give her all she needed. I switched to FF and she was settled and happy, this alone meant we were able to leave the hospital. In that same situation again i would not hesitate to switch to FF, if it means that you have a happy and well fed baby and Mum too then there is no argument.


----------



## ashley2pink

When I said gave up too soon, you can either choose to interpret it as, She thinks we are failures or you can interpret it as- bf being enjoyable was just around the corner.


----------



## rwhite

milf2be said:


> hmmm anyone who doesnt think i tried hard enough can come and help me next time i have a baby. i tried everything: latch assist, expressing to get nipple out - didnt make a difference it disappeared within 2 seconds

:hugs: I'm sorry you had such an awful time of things x I also had this problem (my nipples are inverted and pretty stubborn) and the one thing that really helped over anything else was nipple shields (the medela ones are awesome). I used them for the first few months until by three months my nipples were staying out for longer and was able to get LO to latch :dance:

I would definitely recommend shields if you plan on trying BFing next time, for me they were a lifesaver :flower:


----------



## bigbetty

ashley2pink said:


> I was explaining my part. Just as you stated you were depressed and stopped bf'ing, I told you my side that I was depressed and kept trudging through. I want others to know that I did start enjoying it. Just as you want others to know it's ok to give formula. I'm not disagreeing with you. Formula is fine. I can't just sit here with my experience and not say a darn thing when someone could be reading and be on the fence about which way to go. I will keep saying that I had it difficult, BUT I hung in there and it DID get worlds better. I completely enjoyed bf and I am overjoyed that I stuck with. I don't care what you do. So please stop telling me that I must think I'm better. Now you're the one not being fair. I am able to state my side as well just as you are. Stop picking it apart

The point here isn't that you shared your story about how you struggled and overcame the difficulties, it's the way you have worded your opinion on those who decided to give up "too soon". It comes across as "I struggled, I carried on, I succeeded, you struggled, you gave up too soon"!!! Which comes across that you feel everyone should put up and carry on and if they don't they are failures. 

I'm not saying that is how you mean it to be, that's just how it comes across.


----------



## midori1999

Tbh, I see the assumption that those who BF must have had an easy time of it, or didn't encounter any problems, just as much as I see women who BF thinking others 'didn't try hard enough'. 

I think giving it a go for 8 weeks is giving it a pretty fair shot and maybe it would have got better, maybe it wouldn't, who knows? However, quite a lot of women do try for a week or two, say they found it too hard and then stop BF and for most of them it would have gotten easier and a lot of what these women experience is normal, but they don't know that as they didn't have the right support. I often see women posting they 'had' to stop BF for whatever reason, which they post and I know that that is probably not a reason to 'have' to stop BF, but I don't say anything, because what would that achieve? 

However, that said, the threshold at which things are too much for someone to continue to BF varies from person to person. I am just getting my 7th bout of mastitis and I know it's almost a certaintly that I will get it again. However, for me _personally_, it is not a reason to stop BF and I'll just keep putting up with it because for me BF is really important to me and stopping for me would be worse. I'm not some martyr, I do want what BF provides for my daughter, but I also get lots out of it and for me that 'outweighs' the mastitis. Some women get mastitis once and feel that they want to stop BF because of that. I certainly don't think any less of them, that is their decision and their choices are different to mine._ Not _inferior, just different and that is their choice to make.


----------



## angelic_one

ashley2pink said:


> When I said gave up too soon, you can either choose to interpret it as, She thinks we are failures or you can interpret it as- bf being being enjoyable was just around the corner

But the problem is, that you're implying the best was around the corner for me too, if only I'd been stronger and stuck it out. I'm saying that is not necessarily the case, it might not have gotten better for me.


----------



## angelic_one

midori1999 said:


> Tbh, I see the assumption that those who BF must have had an easy time of it, or didn't encounter any problems, just as much as I see women who BF thinking others 'didn't try hard enough'.
> 
> I think giving it a go for 8 weeks is giving it a pretty fair shot and maybe it would have got better, maybe it wouldn't, who knows? However, quite a lot of women do try for a week or two, say they found it too hard and then stop BF and for most of them it would have gotten easier and a lot of what these women experience is normal, but they don't know that as they didn't have the right support. I often see women posting they 'had' to stop BF for whatever reason, which they post and I know that that is probably not a reason to 'have' to stop BF, but I don't say anything, because what would that achieve?
> 
> However, that said, the threshold at which things are too much for someone to continue to BF varies from person to person. I am just getting my 7th bout of mastitis and I know it's almost a certaintly that I will get it again. However, for me _personally_, it is not a reason to stop BF and I'll just keep putting up with it because for me BF is really important to me and stopping for me would be worse. I'm not some martyr, I do want what BF provides for my daughter, but I also get lots out of it and for me that 'outweighs' the mastitis. Some women get mastitis once and feel that they want to stop BF because of that. I certainly don't think any less of them, that is their decision and their choices are different to mine._ Not _inferior, just different and that is their choice to make.

See, THAT'S how to word it without offending people, haha :thumbup::thumbup:
Well done you, you're an absolute hero! Don't know how I would have coped with mastitis. Although I like to think I'd have worked through it as I did manage to work through a lot of physical pain...but still...wow for you! :)


----------



## mum22ttc#3

ashley2pink said:


> I was explaining my part. Just as you stated you were depressed and stopped bf'ing, I told you my side that I was depressed and kept trudging through. I want others to know that I did start enjoying it. Just as you want others to know it's ok to give formula. I'm not disagreeing with you. Formula is fine. I can't just sit here with my experience and not say a darn thing when someone could be reading and be on the fence about which way to go. I will keep saying that I had it difficult, BUT I hung in there and it DID get worlds better. I completely enjoyed bf and I am overjoyed that I stuck with. I don't care what you do. So please stop telling me that I must think I'm better. Now you're the one not being fair. I am able to state my side as well just as you are. Stop picking it apart

I'm not disputing that you was just trying to help others that were struggling and of course you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, no-one is expecting you to just sit back and say nothing.

Maybe though you could re-read your threads before posting because the way you worded it did come across as rather judge mental even though I do understand that wasn't your intention. Hey everyone words things wrong from time to time, I know I'm probably guilty of it on more than one occasion, sometimes reading it in text form doesn't come across the same way it would if you were speaking it iykwim. :flower:


----------



## ashley2pink

midori1999 said:


> Tbh, I see the assumption that those who BF must have had an easy time of it, or didn't encounter any problems, just as much as I see women who BF thinking others 'didn't try hard enough'.
> 
> I think giving it a go for 8 weeks is giving it a pretty fair shot and maybe it would have got better, maybe it wouldn't, who knows? However, quite a lot of women do try for a week or two, say they found it too hard and then stop BF and for most of them it would have gotten easier and a lot of what these women experience is normal, but they don't know that as they didn't have the right support. I often see women posting they 'had' to stop BF for whatever reason, which they post and I know that that is probably not a reason to 'have' to stop BF, but I don't say anything, because what would that achieve?
> 
> However, that said, the threshold at which things are too much for someone to continue to BF varies from person to person. I am just getting my 7th bout of mastitis and I know it's almost a certaintly that I will get it again. However, for me _personally_, it is not a reason to stop BF and I'll just keep putting up with it because for me BF is really important to me and stopping for me would be worse. I'm not some martyr, I do want what BF provides for my daughter, but I also get lots out of it and for me that 'outweighs' the mastitis. Some women get mastitis once and feel that they want to stop BF because of that. I certainly don't think any less of them, that is their decision and their choices are different to mine._ Not _inferior, just different and that is their choice to make.

Oooo, sorry. I had mastitis twice with my 2nd. The thought never crossed my mind to stop. I'm sorry that mastitis keeps recurring for you! It's awful


----------



## Maid Marian

ashley2pink said:


> Oooo, sorry. I had mastitis twice with my 2nd. The thought never crossed my mind to stop. I'm sorry that mastitis keeps recurring for you! It's awful

I'm so lucky, somehow I've avoided it as yet!!! Did have thrush though - ouchie! What's mastitis feel like?


----------



## ashley2pink

I thought I was getting the flu. I started feeling very feverish, achy, and nauseous. It happened very quick. One moment we were watching a movie and by the end I was feeling very ill. Then when I went to undo by bra to nurse my dd it hurt. One part of my breast was hard and very painful.


----------



## Maid Marian

ashley2pink said:


> I thought I was getting the flu. I started feeling very feverish, achy, and nauseous. It happened very quick. One moment we were watching a movie and by the end I was feeling very ill. Then when I went to undo by bra to nurse my dd it hurt. One part of my breast was hard and very painful.

what's the treatment?


----------



## cherryglitter

i have a quesssstion. if someone knows the answer!
women who don't have access to anti-biotics and things who breastfeed in other countries. how do they get over things like mastitis? or do they just feed through the pain?


----------



## midori1999

I do usually manage to offend people, but I am BF while typing, so all those 'feel good' BF hormones must be helping... :haha:


----------



## Maid Marian

cherryglitter said:


> i have a quesssstion. if someone knows the answer!
> women who don't have access to anti-biotics and things who breastfeed in other countries. how do they get over things like mastitis? or do they just feed through the pain?

good point!


----------



## Maid Marian

midori1999 said:


> I do usually manage to offend people, but I am BF while typing, so all those 'feel good' BF hormones must be helping... :haha:

oooh I lurrve the hormones: I seem to feel it so strongly, as soon as Robin latches on I just feel really relaxed and a bit drunk :blush: :haha:


----------



## midori1999

Rose_W said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> I thought I was getting the flu. I started feeling very feverish, achy, and nauseous. It happened very quick. One moment we were watching a movie and by the end I was feeling very ill. Then when I went to undo by bra to nurse my dd it hurt. One part of my breast was hard and very painful.
> 
> what's the treatment?Click to expand...

You can sometimes get rid of it with self help measures before it becomes infectious (expressing/feeding often from the affected breast, taking ibuprofen, gentle massage etc) but otherwise it's antibiotics along with the self help. I'm pretty lucky, I don't seem prone to thrush as I haven't got that yet from the antibiotics. 




cherryglitter said:


> i have a quesssstion. if someone knows the answer!
> women who don't have access to anti-biotics and things who breastfeed in other countries. how do they get over things like mastitis? or do they just feed through the pain?

I don't know tbh. I am not sure how common mastitis would be in countries without access to antibiotics though, seeing as they are also likely to be countries where they would carry their babies in slings and allow them unrestricted access to the breast, so they often feed every 15 mins or so and often usually only one breast is used, so the breast would be drained more. 

I would imagine if it progressed to a breast abcess they'd have ways or perfoming minor surgeries to help drain it. Ouch!


----------



## cherryglitter

sounds painful :shock: so the more you feed the less chance you have getting mastitis?

(just curious as i have no clue about mastitis or breastfeeding really :haha:)


----------



## ashley2pink

Rose_W said:


> cherryglitter said:
> 
> 
> i have a quesssstion. if someone knows the answer!
> women who don't have access to anti-biotics and things who breastfeed in other countries. how do they get over things like mastitis? or do they just feed through the pain?
> 
> good point!Click to expand...

I got over it without antibiotics both times! I know that's actually unusual though. The first time I just couldnt get in to see a Dr. My previous ob had moved so I didnt have a Dr. I called around but everyone either said the next day or 2 days away. So I called back to the dr office who had said I could be seen the next day, but the spot was taken! I ended up not even making an appointment that day. The next day I was still very ill. I went into some random walk in clinic and was finally prescribed an antibiotic. Keep in mind this entire time I nursed my dd frequently on my infected side and pumped it like crazy. I also massaged it even tho it hurt very badly and was red. By the time I got the rx I was feeling much better. I called a lactation consultant who told me to wait 1 day and see before taking the rx. I waited and I was better the next day. She said its unusual for it to get better like that, but I was lucky I guess. 2 months later I got mastitis again. Again I nursed her more often on the affected side, and massaged and pumped it every hour. I had the rx still but waited 48 hours and again it disappeared on its own. Of course I don't advise this to everyone. Mastitis can get bad very quick and must be treated as soon as symptoms appear


----------



## ashley2pink

Yes, cherryglitter. What happened with me, was my dd was a year old and had started to nurse less often. My right breast is odd and has a hard time making what it needs. It always makes too much milk. So it wasn't being fully emptied anymore. Earlier on I would pump it so it would at least be emptied once a day.But then I stopped pumping altogether. The milk never fully emptied and so I got mastitis. After the 2nd bout when she was 13 months, I made sure to empty it fully at least once a day


----------



## midori1999

cherryglitter said:


> sounds painful :shock: so the more you feed the less chance you have getting mastitis?
> 
> (just curious as i have no clue about mastitis or breastfeeding really :haha:)

It's not very nice. :haha:

You're sort of right. Mastitis is often caused by milk left hanging about in the breast, which is one of the reasons a lot of cases are early on. Most women have oversupply at first, which then regulates and so as there is much more milk than the baby needs, the breasts don't get drained properly. 

In my case the cause isn't clear, although I have got it once when my baby slept through for a bit. I am very prone to oversupply and have also have previous breast surgery which may mean a milk duct or two could have been damaged/affected, which would cause milk to pool there. Obviously if it's the surgery that cused it (and no one seems to know!) then I just have to suck it up! :haha: On a more serious note, if it keeps happening, I may just feed only from my 'good' breast and let the other side just dry up as I want to BF to natural term.


----------



## Maid Marian

Thanks for all the answers, when I got thrush the doctors and even HV were no use diagnosing, so I want to be clued up!!


----------



## whit.

So, I know there were a few things that were said that didn't make people happy (myself included) but I think this thread went really well for ending up being a BF/FF thread.

Well done ladies, we *can* be somewhat civil! ;)


----------



## ashley2pink

Yes, Whit. It is a VERY touchy subject!


----------



## AirForceWife7

I personally wouldn't be comfortable breastfeeding past 2, but that is just me!

I think the right time to stop though is when the child self-weans :flow:


----------



## LockandKey

All I can say about this is wow, sorry if this comes off as a bit bitchy, but I've always felt that mothers were the most judgemental people on earth, and sorry but this thread kind of proves it. If your bf good for your, if not good for you too. 

I don't understand what's so hard for people to understand that what works for some people doesn't work for others. To each his own, and such. As a mother myself I try to be open minded and respect everyone's personal choices. Just because someone chose to parent differently than I doesn't automatically make them a bad parent. In all honesty there are probably ff babies out there who have much better moms than my baby does


----------



## Leopard

Well on a different note, LO has gained 200g in 1 week from extra feeds. The Pediatrician isn't pushing for formula top ups now :winkwink: 

As for mastitis, one of the best treatments (though I have heard it hurts like hell) is to have the baby on the breast more often, my lact' consultant and I were talking about it and she says it seems to be the best cure everytime that she has seen.


----------



## ashley2pink

I know I'm not the best Mom out there. I have a friend who I think is the most amazing Mom, and she ff's. I think I'm a boring mom compared to her! She does crafts with her kids, keeps her house so clean always, cooks dinner every night, is the school pta president. I'm like, how the heck does she do all that and have 3 kids!? I can barely dress myself everyday and I'm almost late everyday rushing my daughter to school. House is a pigsty etc etc. Well, now I'm going off topic


----------



## midori1999

LockandKey said:


> All I can say about this is wow, sorry if this comes off as a bit bitchy, but I've always felt that mothers were the most judgemental people on earth, and sorry but this thread kind of proves it. If your bf good for your, if not good for you too.
> 
> I don't understand what's so hard for people to understand that what works for some people doesn't work for others. To each his own, and such. As a mother myself I try to be open minded and respect everyone's personal choices. Just because someone chose to parent differently than I doesn't automatically make them a bad parent. In all honesty there are probably ff babies out there who have much better moms than my baby does


I disagree. Yes, there have been a few judgey comments on this thread, but they are in the minority over 40 odd pages


----------



## midori1999

Leopard said:


> Well on a different note, LO has gained 200g in 1 week from extra feeds. The Pediatrician isn't pushing for formula top ups now :winkwink:
> 
> As for mastitis, one of the best treatments (though I have heard it hurts like hell) is to have the baby on the breast more often, my lact' consultant and I were talking about it and she says it seems to be the best cure everytime that she has seen.

Frequent feeding helps clear the milk, which can help, but there are two types of mastitis, infectious and non infectious and if you have the infectious kind you have to have antibiotics. I think non infectious mastitis is more common though, although sadly not for me.


----------



## KatieB

midori1999 said:


> LockandKey said:
> 
> 
> All I can say about this is wow, sorry if this comes off as a bit bitchy, but I've always felt that mothers were the most judgemental people on earth, and sorry but this thread kind of proves it. If your bf good for your, if not good for you too.
> 
> I don't understand what's so hard for people to understand that what works for some people doesn't work for others. To each his own, and such. As a mother myself I try to be open minded and respect everyone's personal choices. Just because someone chose to parent differently than I doesn't automatically make them a bad parent. In all honesty there are probably ff babies out there who have much better moms than my baby does
> 
> 
> I disagree. Yes, there have been a few judgey comments on this thread, but they are in the minority over 40 odd pagesClick to expand...

I agree, it's nice to see a thread that could so easily become nasty remain civil and well debated (on the whole), a refreshing change.


----------



## Maid Marian

Leopard said:


> Well on a different note, LO has gained 200g in 1 week from extra feeds. The Pediatrician isn't pushing for formula top ups now :winkwink:

Well done mama!! Be proud of yourself :hugs: :thumbup:


----------



## milf2be

rwhite said:


> milf2be said:
> 
> 
> hmmm anyone who doesnt think i tried hard enough can come and help me next time i have a baby. i tried everything: latch assist, expressing to get nipple out - didnt make a difference it disappeared within 2 seconds
> 
> :hugs: I'm sorry you had such an awful time of things x I also had this problem (my nipples are inverted and pretty stubborn) and the one thing that really helped over anything else was nipple shields (the medela ones are awesome). I used them for the first few months until by three months my nipples were staying out for longer and was able to get LO to latch :dance:
> 
> I would definitely recommend shields if you plan on trying BFing next time, for me they were a lifesaver :flower:Click to expand...

thank you :flower: i will try nipple shields again next time, i did have a go, but it was at the point when i got LO in position to feed he would scream because he was so frustrated. i also had no idea if i was using them right, if i had the right size etc. as i had no help at this point and my local support group wasn't on as it was the summer holidays :dohh:

iv got a niplette now too so im going to give that a go before i get pregnant again :thumbup: x


----------



## rwhite

milf2be said:


> rwhite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> milf2be said:
> 
> 
> hmmm anyone who doesnt think i tried hard enough can come and help me next time i have a baby. i tried everything: latch assist, expressing to get nipple out - didnt make a difference it disappeared within 2 seconds
> 
> :hugs: I'm sorry you had such an awful time of things x I also had this problem (my nipples are inverted and pretty stubborn) and the one thing that really helped over anything else was nipple shields (the medela ones are awesome). I used them for the first few months until by three months my nipples were staying out for longer and was able to get LO to latch :dance:
> 
> I would definitely recommend shields if you plan on trying BFing next time, for me they were a lifesaver :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> thank you :flower: i will try nipple shields again next time, i did have a go, but it was at the point when i got LO in position to feed he would scream because he was so frustrated. i also had no idea if i was using them right, if i had the right size etc. as i had no help at this point and my local support group wasn't on as it was the summer holidays :dohh:
> 
> iv got a niplette now too so im going to give that a go before i get pregnant again :thumbup: xClick to expand...

Good on you doll, it's very brave of you to consider bfing again :) As for sizing, I started off on the medium sizing (got given those at the hospital) and they were okay, but I went out to get some more and got the small ones and they were fab for me! So sizing can make a difference for sure. Ohh those niplettes look good, I wanted to try one of those! All the best hun x


----------



## TigerLady

Wow.... load of pages since I was last on here. :lol: 

I do think on the whole it has stayed fairly civil compared to other threads that have turned into FF/BF debates.

I won't go into massive detail because it has already been gone over. But since I was the one that orginially said I do extended BF, in part, because it is about brain development, I want to say that I never -- and still do not -- claim BF babies are smarter than FF babies. That's a false comparision. What IS true is that breastmilk contains complex fatty acids that cannot be replicated in formula perfectly, and which have been proven to assist brain development. That has been proven to translate into slightly higher IQs. It doesn't mean all FF babies are dumb and it doesn't mean all BF babies are smart. I figured that went without saying. :shrug: 

I was only BF for about 6 months after which I received cow's milk, not even formula. My IQ is north of 140 (I won't say exactly) so obviously the lack of breastmilk after 6 months didn't hurt my IQ too much. LOL My DS is currently considered very advanced and gifted for his age. Is this because he is BF or because both his parents are too clever for their own good?? Probably mostly genetics with a boost from BF. I certainly would never say he is smart because I BF him. :nope: 

For the record, some higher end formulas have been trying to replicate the DHAs that are good for brain development. However, the real thing is always better and always metabolizes better. Though I'm sure having the DHAs in the formula certainly doesn't hurt. As far as I know not all formulas have them, though. That doesn't mean formulas are not as nutritionally complete as they need to be -- on the contrary, they are. But there is good (formula) and better (breastmilk). I don't think that is up for debate. There's plenty of evidence for that to be the case. 

I also have to agree with the statement that was made somewhere: Being pro-BF does not mean you are anti-FF. I wish people understood this more. I am very pro-BF. Absolutely. But I also understand the vaule of formula. It is life saving and important. I feel strongly every mother that can BF should BF. However, when a mother can't, and there are a variety of reasons that would be the case, formula is a wonderful alternative. 

Whether you find BF hard or easy and whether you power through it or not is all a matter of personal choice. For me, it has been easier than for some, but has come with its fair share of difficultly. I BF my DS all through my pg with my DD and that was incredibly painful for me. Every single feed, for months, came with acute pain. I've BF while working full time, which has meant a great deal of expressing (goodness, I hate that pump!). I continue to BF two toddlers. Recently my nipples have been thrashed and trashed by various problems -- raw, sore, split, bleeding, cracked, inflammed... it is horribly painful constantly and even worse when they are feeding. 

So, excuse me if I am a little proud of my accomplishment, but I am. I tend to just keep the difficulty to myself because it is my deal. It has been my choice to BF my children, for me there was no other option. So, it didn't matter what I had to battle, battle it I would and did. 

I have pumped extra milk and donated it to friends when their babies needed it. I have encouraged BF mothers to stick it out through difficulty. Does that make me the BF mafia? I don't like to think so, but maybe you do. In my defense, I absolutely have no qualms about telling a mom to go to formula if it is what she feels is truly right. Whether that is at 1 day or 1 year. If BF is just not working, depsite all the efforts, formula is then the answer. 

If you choose to FF rather than BF from the beginning, that is your choice and your business. 

And that's how I feel. I would hope no one would find that offensive, but I am sure there are some that do. I guess I can't help that. 

As for the orginial post -- it was about finding BF acceptable. Surely even those that have FF their babies find BF acceptable. The debate is about when do you find it unacceptable. That means, in general, do you accept extended BF? 

_More specifically, do you find it unacceptable that I continue to breastfeed my son who is nearly 2.5? Would you find it unacceptable if he is still feeding 2 years from now?_

I have to say, I was very thankful he is still BF last night. I ended up in the ER with him because he was very suddenly ill. As we were waiting for the medicine to take effect, he was draped across my lap in the most miserable fashion. I asked him if he wanted bite (what he calls it). He gratefully accepted. He nursed for about 20 minutes and drifted off into a calm, healing sleep. I know he certainly found it acceptable... and even helpful... to nurse in his time of need last night.


----------



## mum22ttc#3

TigerLady said:


> Wow.... load of pages since I was last on here. :lol:
> 
> I do think on the whole it has stayed fairly civil compared to other threads that have turned into FF/BF debates.
> 
> I won't go into massive detail because it has already been gone over. But since I was the one that orginially said I do extended BF, in part, because it is about brain development, I want to say that I never -- and still do not -- claim BF babies are smarter than FF babies. That's a false comparision. What IS true is that breastmilk contains complex fatty acids that cannot be replicated in formula perfectly, and which have been proven to assist brain development. That has been proven to translate into slightly higher IQs. It doesn't mean all FF babies are dumb and it doesn't mean all BF babies are smart. I figured that went without saying. :shrug:
> 
> I was only BF for about 6 months after which I received cow's milk, not even formula. My IQ is north of 140 (I won't say exactly) so obviously the lack of breastmilk after 6 months didn't hurt my IQ too much. LOL My DS is currently considered very advanced and gifted for his age. Is this because he is BF or because both his parents are too clever for their own good?? Probably mostly genetics with a boost from BF. I certainly would never say he is smart because I BF him. :nope:
> 
> For the record, some higher end formulas have been trying to replicate the DHAs that are good for brain development. However, the real thing is always better and always metabolizes better. Though I'm sure having the DHAs in the formula certainly doesn't hurt. As far as I know not all formulas have them, though. That doesn't mean formulas are not as nutritionally complete as they need to be -- on the contrary, they are. But there is good (formula) and better (breastmilk). I don't think that is up for debate. There's plenty of evidence for that to be the case.
> 
> I also have to agree with the statement that was made somewhere: Being pro-BF does not mean you are anti-FF. I wish people understood this more. I am very pro-BF. Absolutely. But I also understand the vaule of formula. It is life saving and important. I feel strongly every mother that can BF should BF. However, when a mother can't, and there are a variety of reasons that would be the case, formula is a wonderful alternative.
> 
> Whether you find BF hard or easy and whether you power through it or not is all a matter of personal choice. For me, it has been easier than for some, but has come with its fair share of difficultly. I BF my DS all through my pg with my DD and that was incredibly painful for me. Every single feed, for months, came with acute pain. I've BF while working full time, which has meant a great deal of expressing (goodness, I hate that pump!). I continue to BF two toddlers. Recently my nipples have been thrashed and trashed by various problems -- raw, sore, split, bleeding, cracked, inflammed... it is horribly painful constantly and even worse when they are feeding.
> 
> So, excuse me if I am a little proud of my accomplishment, but I am. I tend to just keep the difficulty to myself because it is my deal. It has been my choice to BF my children, for me there was no other option. So, it didn't matter what I had to battle, battle it I would and did.
> 
> I have pumped extra milk and donated it to friends when their babies needed it. I have encouraged BF mothers to stick it out through difficulty. Does that make me the BF mafia? I don't like to think so, but maybe you do. In my defense, I absolutely have no qualms about telling a mom to go to formula if it is what she feels is truly right. Whether that is at 1 day or 1 year. If BF is just not working, depsite all the efforts, formula is then the answer.
> 
> If you choose to FF rather than BF from the beginning, that is your choice and your business.
> 
> And that's how I feel. I would hope no one would find that offensive, but I am sure there are some that do. I guess I can't help that.
> 
> As for the orginial post -- it was about finding BF acceptable. Surely even those that have FF their babies find BF acceptable. The debate is about when do you find it unacceptable. That means, in general, do you accept extended BF?
> 
> _More specifically, do you find it unacceptable that I continue to breastfeed my son who is nearly 2.5? Would you find it unacceptable if he is still feeding 2 years from now?_
> 
> I have to say, I was very thankful he is still BF last night. I ended up in the ER with him because he was very suddenly ill. As we were waiting for the medicine to take effect, he was draped across my lap in the most miserable fashion. I asked him if he wanted bite (what he calls it). He gratefully accepted. He nursed for about 20 minutes and drifted off into a calm, healing sleep. I know he certainly found it acceptable... and even helpful... to nurse in his time of need last night.

I FF and have found none of your posts offensive what so ever. Everything that you have said has been written in a respectable way and personally I don't think judgemental at all. :thumbup:


----------



## Ozzieshunni

Very well put tiger lady :thumbup:


----------



## KittyVentura

Until child self weans... however I do not think personally I would BF past the age of 1-2... but that's because I look at my brute of a son and the thought of him near my pregnant tits makes me want to cry. Lol xx


----------



## TigerLady

KittyVentura said:


> Until child self weans... however I do not think personally I would BF past the age of 1-2... but that's because I look at my brute of a son and the thought of him near my pregnant tits makes me want to cry. Lol xx

:rofl:!!! This made me literally chuckle out loud. When I remember those razor blades shooting through my boobs and slicing my nipples (figuratively speaking, of course) when I was nursing DS and pg with DD, I still cringe.


----------



## Lauki

Ugh that sounds horrible! I'll wait with TTC till she's weaned :rofl:


----------



## Raven24

I think the acceptable age should be when the child self weans as boobies are for feeding babies end of but i understand people may choose to wean earlier than that for various reasons and that is their individual choice i hope we can continue till mikey self wean but who knows what the future holds we may haveto stop sooner for many reasons.


----------



## whit.

Please don't think this is a stupid question...but..

If you're bf'ing, become pregnant, and still plan to bf first child (child around 1-2, or whatever you feel comfortable bf'ing to) Would you continue to bf the first child AND the newborn? Would your supply keep up?


----------



## Raven24

whit. said:


> Please don't think this is a stupid question...but..
> 
> If you're bf'ing, become pregnant, and still plan to bf first child (child around 1-2, or whatever you feel comfortable bf'ing to) Would you continue to bf the first child AND the newborn? Would your supply keep up?

Hi its not a stupid question :hugs:
Yes you can tandem feed and there are a few women on here who do tandem feed i wish i had continued to feed my eldest as id have loved to tandem feed but it wasnt meant to be, tandem feeding mommies are amazing i imagine it must be hard work but very rewarding


----------



## Dragonfly

whit. said:


> Please don't think this is a stupid question...but..
> 
> If you're bf'ing, become pregnant, and still plan to bf first child (child around 1-2, or whatever you feel comfortable bf'ing to) Would you continue to bf the first child AND the newborn? Would your supply keep up?

I did it, I have a 1 and a 2 year old still breastfeeding them, never had supply issues.


----------



## ashley2pink

Yes, many tandem feed hun. I wouldnt be able to bf while pregnant because I'm high risk.
When the baby is born the colostrum still comes in. Milk does increase to satisfy both. You just make sure the younger gets its fill before the larger child. Tho many bf both at same time.


----------



## TigerLady

whit. said:


> Please don't think this is a stupid question...but..
> 
> If you're bf'ing, become pregnant, and still plan to bf first child (child around 1-2, or whatever you feel comfortable bf'ing to) Would you continue to bf the first child AND the newborn? Would your supply keep up?

Your supply totally keeps up. :thumbup: I became pg when my DS was 5 months old. He continued to feed throughout my pregnancy. DD was born when DS was 13 months old, to the day. He was still nursing 3 times per day at that point and we continued with that. On the day DD was born, he nursed in the morning after my waters broke. Then came to the hospital in the evening, met his baby sister and had a quick nurse before going home with Daddy for the night. 

Your milk turns to colostrum for the new baby just as it would for any newborn. Then it comes back in properly after the normal 3-5 days. After that your supply will regulate to feed both of them. 

Both my kids are still nursing, they will be 29 and 16 months in about a week. So, I have been nursing 2 for 16 months. :D


----------



## whit.

Very interesting. I've never heard of it before. I can imagine it would be hard work. BF'ing for the weeks I did with Sophia was hard work but we had some other issues. I'm sure it would be rewarding as well, I'm a little jealous. :haha:

Maybe if our next will BF then I'll express and give Sophia milk in her cup.


----------



## TigerLady

It's not as much hard work as you think... at least I didn't find it so. I actually found it wonderful. It became an important way for me to keep my bond with DS solid and special when his little sister arrived. I really think it helped him be less jealous of her. He's actually showed no jealousy toward her. 

:flower:


----------



## ashley2pink

TigerLady said:


> whit. said:
> 
> 
> Please don't think this is a stupid question...but..
> 
> If you're bf'ing, become pregnant, and still plan to bf first child (child around 1-2, or whatever you feel comfortable bf'ing to) Would you continue to bf the first child AND the newborn? Would your supply keep up?
> 
> Your supply totally keeps up. :thumbup: I became pg when my DS was 5 months old. He continued to feed throughout my pregnancy. DD was born when DS was 13 months old, to the day. He was still nursing 3 times per day at that point and we continued with that. On the day DD was born, he nursed in the morning after my waters broke. Then came to the hospital in the evening, met his baby sister and had a quick nurse before going home with Daddy for the night.
> 
> Your milk turns to colostrum for the new baby just as it would for any newborn. Then it comes back in properly after the normal 3-5 days. After that your supply will regulate to feed both of them.
> 
> Both my kids are still nursing, they will be 29 and 16 months in about a week. So, I have been nursing 2 for 16 months. :DClick to expand...

Did you get contractions while bf'ing when you were further along? I hate to think if I accidentally got pregnant that I would have to wean earlier than I want. I just get loads of braxton hicks while pregnant and I have to take it easy.


----------



## ashley2pink

whit. said:


> Very interesting. I've never heard of it before. I can imagine it would be hard work. BF'ing for the weeks I did with Sophia was hard work but we had some other issues. I'm sure it would be rewarding as well, I'm a little jealous. :haha:
> 
> Maybe if our next will BF then I'll express and give Sophia milk in her cup.

That's a great idea. I give my 2 older kids expressed breast milk. It does make me feel better because my oldest didn't get breastmilk for very long:)


----------



## Dragonfly

TigerLady said:


> It's not as much hard work as you think... at least I didn't find it so. I actually found it wonderful. It became an important way for me to keep my bond with DS solid and special when his little sister arrived. I really think it helped him be less jealous of her. He's actually showed no jealousy toward her.
> 
> :flower:

Agree to, hardest think I found is trying to get the two of them on me comfortably. William and Alex hold hands when they feed and just touch each others hands its cute. :cloud9:


----------



## TigerLady

ashley2pink said:


> Did you get contractions while bf'ing when you were further along? I hate to think if I accidentally got pregnant that I would have to wean earlier than I want. I just get loads of braxton hicks while pregnant and I have to take it easy.

Nope. But I never got BH much at all with either pg. DD did come early -- at 36 + 4, but it was from my waters breaking mostly. They broke in the middle of the night and mild contractions started about 8 hours later. I had to have both my kids by c-section, though. 

If you have a history of preterm labor, then it is recommended to be cautious about bfing while pg. But it doesn't automatically rule it out. It would be something to discuss with an OB that knows your history well.


----------



## Dragonfly

I went very over due while breastfeeding , no early labor. I was told several times I was putting my baby at risk or as a midwife put it " you are stealing nutrients from your unborn baby" And shouted at me"who told you you could do that?". humm. I didnt have a high risk pregnancy.


----------



## GypsyDancer

My goal was only to go to a year when i first started..now im past that and i definately know id like to keep going until 2 years..however im now pregnant with baby number 2 so providing LO is still happily bf i will most likely be tandem nursing well past his 2nd birthday until he is happy..i wouldnt want to suddenly take it away from him and feed the new baby infront of him..

The only thing i would worry about is..even though im incredibly proud of myself for bf..i wouldnt want my LO to be bullied at school if he happened to mention still being breastfed so i think maybe if he got to an older age..i would maybe express into a cup for him..:shrug:

My OH's little sister is 5 i think now and she still has a bottle and dummy and i cant help but feel its weird..however if she was breastfed i wouldnt see it as being wierd if her mum still wanted to express milk for her into a cup..


----------



## Ozzieshunni

We are NTNP, so it's possible I could get pregnant while Alex is still BFing. I'd love to tandem feed (might be coming to you Tiger for advice :haha:). I can just imagine how people are going to react to that though, especially back home in Cali.


----------



## MrsKTB

I voted 9-12, but for me, I feel 12 months would be the limit. I actually stopped bf lo at 2 months, because I felt he needed more than I could give him, since then he's been a much happier and content little boy, but for any future children, any future bf, for me 12 moths would be the max.


----------



## Celesse

whit. said:


> Please don't think this is a stupid question...but..
> 
> If you're bf'ing, become pregnant, and still plan to bf first child (child around 1-2, or whatever you feel comfortable bf'ing to) Would you continue to bf the first child AND the newborn? Would your supply keep up?

I conceived when DD was 12.5 months, I was working part time 5 days a week and away from her 6 hours so she was naturally dropping feeds at the same time my milk was being effected by the pregnancy. My supply didn't do too well. It was ok first tri, but then started dipping second tri. It went down to *nothing* between about 18-24 weeks, although DD continued to *"dry nurse"* through it. I really thought she would self wean at this point and making the decision to continue to nurse in spite of no milk was not an easy one. 

So I essentially spent 6 weeks, with my then 18 month old going to the breast at least once a day with absolutly no milk or nutritional benefit. I'm sure this seems a bit freaky to a lot of people and I'm sure a lot of people in the same situation would decide to wean or discourage feeding. 

I went on maternity leave at 24 weeks and around the same time my colostrum for this pregnancy came in. After a couple of yucky faces, she decided it was ok and is now back to feeding 3+ times a day and showing no signs of stopping.


----------



## Frooty

I've thought i actually miss breastfeeding only could cope for 6 weeks wish i could for longer i probably would of bf til he was 11 months and then cows milk at 1 this is just cus i'd be comfy til that age. I just didn't know how to cope me and my oh were going through a rough time at the time and baby was crying non stop everytime he came off the boob. I don't feel guilty FF its just a faff making up bottles too lol and sometimes he still routes on me. Oh well maybe the next baby i will try again but won't feel bad if it doesn't go well again.


----------



## Arisa

This may sound like a silly question as its not done these days but did anyone else have a wet nurse? well not a designated one but because my mother had an infection and her milk dried I was fed by a close friend via breast and my mother with her last two children she had loads of milk and was able to breastfeed other children whose mothers did not have milk.

As little as 90 years ago a lot of women well the wealthy ones had wet nurses, and it was known in the royal families in Europe up until the 1900s for the queens and royal family members to have wet nurses or ladies in waiting feed them


----------



## daddiesgift

Im going to be honest here..that picture on the link freaked me out. I think you get to choose whatever you want breast feed till you want BUT do I want to see you bf your five year old in public? Um no.


----------



## ashley2pink

Arisa said:


> This may sound like a silly question as its not done these days but did anyone else have a wet nurse? well not a designated one but because my mother had an infection and her milk dried I was fed by a close friend via breast and my mother with her last two children she had loads of milk and was able to breastfeed other children whose mothers did not have milk.
> 
> As little as 90 years ago a lot of women well the wealthy ones had wet nurses, and it was known in the royal families in Europe up until the 1900s for the queens and royal family members to have wet nurses or ladies in waiting feed them

I think thats awesome!! Me and my sister(who is bf'ing her son currently) decided that if ever I was babysitting her son and he was hungry and she wasnt around that I could bf him or the other way around, she bf my lo. It would be different at first for sure! 
Your Mom sounds like she was busy! bf'ing the neighborhood! Did she just do it out of the goodness of her heart?


----------



## mummyclo

Who the fuck put it I don't think it is ever acceptable!!??
Idiot!


----------



## Maid Marian

ashley2pink said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> This may sound like a silly question as its not done these days but did anyone else have a wet nurse? well not a designated one but because my mother had an infection and her milk dried I was fed by a close friend via breast and my mother with her last two children she had loads of milk and was able to breastfeed other children whose mothers did not have milk.
> 
> As little as 90 years ago a lot of women well the wealthy ones had wet nurses, and it was known in the royal families in Europe up until the 1900s for the queens and royal family members to have wet nurses or ladies in waiting feed them
> 
> I think thats awesome!! Me and my sister(who is bf'ing her son currently) decided that if ever I was babysitting her son and he was hungry and she wasnt around that I could bf him or the other way around, she bf my lo. It would be different at first for sure!
> Your Mom sounds like she was busy! bf'ing the neighborhood! Did she just do it out of the goodness of her heart?Click to expand...

That's so lovely that you are close enough to decide that :cloud9:


----------



## Dragonfly

I know Queen Elizabeth Breastfed.


----------



## Ozzieshunni

Queen Victoria called her daughters "milk cows" for BFing.


----------



## Dragonfly

She didnt seem such a nice woman was she?


----------



## kerrie24

cherryglitter said:


> i have a quesssstion. if someone knows the answer!
> women who don't have access to anti-biotics and things who breastfeed in other countries. how do they get over things like mastitis? or do they just feed through the pain?

I have had mastitis twice now,both times I was able to recognise the symptoms and self treat at home by regular feeding with pumping and breast massage.I only had it for a few days max.:thumbup:


----------



## kerrie24

Woah,havent been in baby club for a while...look what I missed!:haha:

I chose till baby self weans,whatever age.
Personally If Owen gets to 2 and is still feeding I will start and only feed at home because of other peoples reactions at him still bf.I will continue to feed at home till he is done,as that is nobody elses business.

If anyone else bfs till baby is 7,8,whatever,thats got nothing to do with me,so good on them I say.


----------



## Frooty

Tbh i wouldn't feel comfortable letting someone else bf my child but if they expressed i would think about giving it in a bottle MAYBE.


----------



## TigerLady

I haven't known any wet nurses personally. However, I have expressed and given my milk to a friend for her baby. My friend was unable to BF due to hormonal imbalance issues :( and her little girl was struggling with loads of sickness. So (despite feeding my infant son, who is 4 months younger than her little girl AND being pg LOL) I expressed an extra 4-7 oz every day for her LO. I also gave her all my back up freezer stash. The little girl had a bottle of expressed milk everyday until she was over 1 yo. She loved it. And she was sick MUCH less often. :thumbup:

My DS and the little girl are now inseparable best friends. The Pre-School calls them "The Old Married Couple." :rofl:


----------



## cat lover

^^ Thats such an amazing thing to do x


----------



## Arisa

ashley2pink said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> This may sound like a silly question as its not done these days but did anyone else have a wet nurse? well not a designated one but because my mother had an infection and her milk dried I was fed by a close friend via breast and my mother with her last two children she had loads of milk and was able to breastfeed other children whose mothers did not have milk.
> 
> As little as 90 years ago a lot of women well the wealthy ones had wet nurses, and it was known in the royal families in Europe up until the 1900s for the queens and royal family members to have wet nurses or ladies in waiting feed them
> 
> I think thats awesome!! Me and my sister(who is bf'ing her son currently) decided that if ever I was babysitting her son and he was hungry and she wasnt around that I could bf him or the other way around, she bf my lo. It would be different at first for sure!
> Your Mom sounds like she was busy! bf'ing the neighborhood! Did she just do it out of the goodness of her heart?Click to expand...

I think she felt really sad about not being able to feed me for longer than six months and seeing other babies the next time round who could not feed really pulled on her heart strings and she felt a sense of achievement being able to feed these babies :cloud9:

Yeah Elizabeth breastfed but that was later on, not in the 1800s or early 1900's when it was acceptable for royal women to have wet nurses but by the time Elizabeth was queen women were fighting for the right to breastfeed in public as it was seen as "unclean" for so many years.

women have had a lot to contend with over the years :(


----------



## mum22ttc#3

Frooty said:


> Tbh i wouldn't feel comfortable letting someone else bf my child but if they expressed i would think about giving it in a bottle MAYBE.

I've got to say I would feel the same. Not because I feel that there is anything wrong with other people doing it but because I would feel that the person BFing her would be getting a bond that I wasn't. I don't know, just like they was having an emotional attachment in a way that I wasn't. :shrug:

I have never breast fed but do imagine that there is alot of emotional attachment etc involved and for somebody else having that with my baby when I wasn't just wouldn't feel right.

Even though if need be I would have no problem giving my LO expressed milk from somebody else. :)


----------



## HellBunny

:rofl: i've been to the other end of the country and back for almost a week and this is _still_ going on? hahahaha


----------



## Maid Marian

ashley2pink said:


> Arisa said:
> 
> 
> This may sound like a silly question as its not done these days but did anyone else have a wet nurse? well not a designated one but because my mother had an infection and her milk dried I was fed by a close friend via breast and my mother with her last two children she had loads of milk and was able to breastfeed other children whose mothers did not have milk.
> 
> As little as 90 years ago a lot of women well the wealthy ones had wet nurses, and it was known in the royal families in Europe up until the 1900s for the queens and royal family members to have wet nurses or ladies in waiting feed them
> 
> I think thats awesome!! Me and my sister(who is bf'ing her son currently) decided that if ever I was babysitting her son and he was hungry and she wasnt around that I could bf him or the other way around, she bf my lo. It would be different at first for sure!
> Your Mom sounds like she was busy! bf'ing the neighborhood! Did she just do it out of the goodness of her heart?Click to expand...




HellBunny said:


> :rofl: i've been to the other end of the country and back for almost a week and this is _still_ going on? hahahaha

:haha:


----------



## ashley2pink

Well we keep going off on other aspects of bf'ing so yes.


----------



## whit.

I was offered to give Sophia donated milk while we were in the hospital. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I don't know why, really. Maybe if it were someone I knew I could do it. _Maybe._ It would have to be my sister or close family member though. It's an awesome choice for mothers who can do it though. :thumbup:


----------



## angel2010

TigerLady said:


> I haven't known any wet nurses personally. However, I have expressed and given my milk to a friend for her baby. My friend was unable to BF due to hormonal imbalance issues :( and her little girl was struggling with loads of sickness. So (despite feeding my infant son, who is 4 months younger than her little girl AND being pg LOL) I expressed an extra 4-7 oz every day for her LO. I also gave her all my back up freezer stash. The little girl had a bottle of expressed milk everyday until she was over 1 yo. She loved it. And she was sick MUCH less often. :thumbup:
> 
> My DS and the little girl are now inseparable best friends. The Pre-School calls them "The Old Married Couple." :rofl:

You never cease to amaze me with this!! What a wonderful thing to do for a friend!


----------



## Arisa

Its not a bad thing in my opinion especially if you cannot cope, have a traumatic birth and need some respite care like my mother did and are unable to bond with baby. I was unable to be fed for the first four days as my mother was physcially and mentally traumatized from her birth experience and I was sort of left in the little baby bed next to her crying while she was out of it and the nurses had to feed me via bottle so I never really bonded with my mother which has caused problems in later life, I do not want that for my LO


----------



## Natsku

I wouldn't mind wet nursing another baby. Wouldn't be as comfortable having someone else wet nurse Maria but if I couldn't breastfeed and I had that option I think I would go for it for Maria's benefit (or at least very seriously consider it)


----------



## Tacey

I'd happily wet nurse or allow my baby to be wet nursed if I couldn't feed her. I'd rather they got it straight from a person than a bottle, even if that wasn't me. It would definitely be tough though!


----------



## Ozzieshunni

I'd do it :). I think it's very noble :)


----------



## Eve

I would in a heart beat :) I don't think it would be right either to deny K the benefits of breast milk for my own insecurities so I would hve allowed another to nurse her if I couldnt.


----------



## Dragonfly

I would wet nurse to, though i would feel jealous of someone nursed my baby.


----------



## Maid Marian

Tacey said:


> I'd happily wet nurse or allow my baby to be wet nursed if I couldn't feed her. I'd rather they got it straight from a person than a bottle, even if that wasn't me. It would definitely be tough though!

This too :thumbup:


----------



## bumpy_j

Mm I dunno if I could wet nurse, I'd feel awkward having that bond with a baby that wasn't mine - and like dragonfly said I'd feel jealous if someone did it for me. 

I would donate milk with no hesitations.


----------



## Foogirl

Mr Foo and I were talking about this just last night. I gave up BFing at about 18 months, (Abby was 15 months corrected age). She probably would have stopped sooner but I kept going simply because she wasn't a big drinker from any other source and a dairy intolerance meant I was worried about her getting enough milk. For me, and this is simply the point where I would feel less comfortable, it is when they start becoming "little people" and stop being "babies". Abby, being premature, was still relatively baby like and wasn't walking, although she was a very early talker.

If I have another and can establish BFing, Abby will definitely get expressed milk in a cup. We noticed within a week she was picking up all the bugs at nursery whereas in her first 3 months, she had none at all. It appears breast milk did give her some immediate protection so I'm keen to see if it makes a difference if she starts having it again.

For other women, I don't really care when they stop BFing. The only concern I would have is whether they were doing it to keep their children as "babies" for longer and it was combined with other babying type behaviour. But even with that, they are not my children so it is none of my business.

I would absolutely refuse to have someone else breast feed my child. And I would feel very uncomfortable doing it for another baby. It is a very intimate thing. It would be like another woman kissing my husband. Unless I was in the Salma Hayek situation where a child was facing starvation, I couldn't do that to another mother.


----------



## Dragonfly

Foogirl said:


> Mr Foo and I were talking about this just last night. I gave up BFing at about 18 months, (Abby was 15 months corrected age). She probably would have stopped sooner but I kept going simply because she wasn't a big drinker from any other source and a dairy intolerance meant I was worried about her getting enough milk. For me, and this is simply the point where I would feel less comfortable, it is when they start becoming "little people" and stop being "babies". Abby, being premature, was still relatively baby like and wasn't walking, although she was a very early talker.
> 
> If I have another and can establish BFing, Abby will definitely get expressed milk in a cup. We noticed within a week she was picking up all the bugs at nursery whereas in her first 3 months, she had none at all. It appears breast milk did give her some immediate protection so I'm keen to see if it makes a difference if she starts having it again.
> 
> *For other women, I don't really care when they stop BFing. The only concern I would have is whether they were doing it to keep their children as "babies" for longer and it was combined with other babying type behaviour. But even with that, they are not my children so it is none of my business.*

I have never seen any one do that that "extended" breastfed I do it for my children's health I know they are not little babies. :wacko:


----------



## Foogirl

HellBunny said:


> Not trying to cause a debate, but a 10 month old who is advanced could say for example "mummy, milk" does that mean they are too old for it? :S :wacko:

As an aside, I always said this about chocolate. When she could ask for it she could have it. She talked very early and could certainly say chocolate at 13 months. No way she was getting it though!

Just had another thought though. For those who have said a relatively high age, they think is acceptable for BFing, do they feel the same about children drinking from bottles? Would you be happy to see a 4 year old drinking out of a bottle?


----------



## Ozzieshunni

I think it was a trend a while back where teens were drinking out of bottles :haha:


----------



## Maid Marian

Foogirl said:


> Just had another thought though. For those who have said a relatively high age, they think is acceptable for BFing, do they feel the same about children drinking from bottles? Would you be happy to see a 4 year old drinking out of a bottle?

That's a good question. TBH, I don't know what, if anything, I'd think about it, except that it's each mum's choice, so not really my place to judge. I spose I do see it differently to 'extended' breastfeeding though, as bottle/dummies affect the development of the teeth/gums, I think :shrug:


----------



## Foogirl

Dragonfly said:


> I have never seen any one do that that "extended" breastfed I do it for my children's health I know they are not little babies. :wacko:

I'm thinking back to a couple of episodes of Supernanny where one mother was still feeding her 3 year old, the youngest (and last) of 4 children. She was, at first, talking about all the benefits, but then admitted it was actually about the fact she didn't want her baby to grow up. Similarly she had made no attempt to potty train, or get rid of a dummy, was still rocking and shussing to sleep. All things that in themselves weren't an issue, but combined showed an unwillingness to let go.

I have absolutely no doubt she is the exception rather than the rule, but it certainly does happen and that would be the only time I would be concerned.


----------



## Foogirl

Rose_W said:


> That's a good question. TBH, I don't know what, if anything, I'd think about it, except that it's each mum's choice, so not really my place to judge. I spose I do see it differently to 'extended' breastfeeding though, as bottle/dummies affect the development of the teeth/gums, I think :shrug:

But, would there not be the same risk from BFing? And I ask that genuinely as I have no idea. I'd just be surprised if having a couple of feeds of milk in a bottle would be much different to having a couple of breastfeeds. I think with bottles, is it not about the way they can be used e.g over longer periods and containing more tooth rotting substances?


----------



## Ozzieshunni

Babies don't "suck" at a nipple, rather they massage it with their mouth and tongue to get out the milk.


----------



## pinkie77

I'm always being accused of babying my daughter by continuing to bf as she is usually thought to be older than she is (even by the clinic staff!). So at what age does that become a 'problem'?


----------



## Dragonfly

Foogirl said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I have never seen any one do that that "extended" breastfed I do it for my children's health I know they are not little babies. :wacko:
> 
> I'm thinking back to a couple of episodes of Supernanny where one mother was still feeding her 3 year old, the youngest (and last) of 4 children. She was, at first, talking about all the benefits, but then admitted it was actually about the fact she didn't want her baby to grow up. Similarly she had made no attempt to potty train, or get rid of a dummy, was still rocking and shussing to sleep. All things that in themselves weren't an issue, but combined showed an unwillingness to let go.
> 
> I have absolutely no doubt she is the exception rather than the rule, but it certainly does happen and that would be the only time I would be concerned.Click to expand...

I havnt seen that but heard about it and how harsh she was . I make no attempt at potty training my son either but I have a potty and he uses it, I go baby led he develops at his own pace. Some people do that dosnt mean they want to keep them babies forever. I dont use dummies on them but they fall asleep on own now.


----------



## Foogirl

Dragonfly said:


> I havnt seen that but heard about it and how harsh she was . I make no attempt at potty training my son either but I have a potty and he uses it, I go baby led he develops at his own pace. Some people do that dosnt mean they want to keep them babies forever. I dont use dummies on them but they fall asleep on own now.

Well, Jo Frost is always harsh! But to be honest it was the woman's own admission that she was definitely holding her child back from growing up. There was a similar one where a woman of 4 under 5 was doing the same, although there was no Bfing involved. The children themselves were clear they didn't want to still be wearing nappies to bed (at 4 years old) and drinking bedtime milk out of bottles. The look on their faces when they got to drink out of cups like big children do, was priceless!

As I said, individually, these things are usually quite normal, it is the combination of them which usually shows there is an issue. Letting your child lead you is one way to go and whilst not my preference, I don't believe it shows an unwillingness to let a child grow up. Probably quite the opposite actually.

Pinkie, I think the babying becomes an issue where children are being held back from developing life skills at the same rate as the majority of their peers. Although I suspect I will still be babying Abby when she is a grown up!


----------



## Dragonfly

Foogirl said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I havnt seen that but heard about it and how harsh she was . I make no attempt at potty training my son either but I have a potty and he uses it, I go baby led he develops at his own pace. Some people do that dosnt mean they want to keep them babies forever. I dont use dummies on them but they fall asleep on own now.
> 
> Well, Jo Frost is always harsh! But to be honest it was the woman's own admission that she was definitely holding her child back from growing up. There was a similar one where a woman of 4 under 5 was doing the same, although there was no Bfing involved. The children themselves were clear they didn't want to still be wearing nappies to bed (at 4 years old) and drinking bedtime milk out of bottles. The look on their faces when they got to drink out of cups like big children do, was priceless!
> 
> As I said, individually, these things are usually quite normal, it is the combination of them which usually shows there is an issue.
> 
> Pinkie, I think the babying becomes an issue where children are being held back from developing life skills at the same rate as the majority of their peers. Although I suspect I will still be babying Abby when she is a grown up!Click to expand...

I think theres a lot of confusion about child development, unrealistic expectations of children expecting to be potty trained way to early or treating it like its a competition etc I go with my child's lead he does get it within good time I trust him to do so. I guide him more than anything. I defo dont baby him I have Alex to baby for now :haha:because he is a baby :baby:


----------



## Foogirl

Dragonfly said:


> I think theres a lot of confusion about child development, unrealistic expectations of children expecting to be potty trained way to early or treating it like its a competition etc I go with my child's lead he does get it within good time I trust him to do so. I guide him more than anything. I defo dont baby him I have Alex to baby for now :haha:because he is a baby :baby:

Jeez. I'm about to give up.:dohh:

It isn't about when a child is potty trained, it is about *all* of the things *together*

I used it as one example but I could have just as easily spoken about a 4 year old who sleeps in a cot. As I said, letting a child lead you is different from not letting a child move to the next step.


----------



## Dragonfly

Foogirl said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I think theres a lot of confusion about child development, unrealistic expectations of children expecting to be potty trained way to early or treating it like its a competition etc I go with my child's lead he does get it within good time I trust him to do so. I guide him more than anything. I defo dont baby him I have Alex to baby for now :haha:because he is a baby :baby:
> 
> Jeez. I'm about to give up.:dohh:
> 
> It isn't about when a child is potty trained, it is about *all* of the things *together*
> 
> I used it as one example but I could have just as easily spoken about a 4 year old who sleeps in a cot. As I said, letting a child lead you is different from not letting a child move to the next step.Click to expand...

I know :flower:


----------



## Foogirl

Dragonfly said:


> I know :flower:

Phew. I thought I was going nuts there! :hugs:


----------



## Dragonfly

Foogirl said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I know :flower:
> 
> Phew. I thought I was going nuts there! :hugs:Click to expand...

no, but I think people always think I am looking a row when I am not its really just conversation I do ask a lot of questions sometimes and waffle on :blush: helps me get others views and understand more , even forms my views and opinions. :coffee:


----------



## Lauki

I think with breastfeeding it's more than just nutrition for my baby. Sometimes she really needs it to calm down enough to fall asleep. Without it she'd have a major meltdown and be very unhappy. 

I know she's still very young, but I can see her personality developing and she really doesn't seem to have an off switch. I will hopefully continue breastfeeding for at least 2 years, especially the nightfeed as it can help her relax enough to actually be able to fall asleep.

I assume this'll be the same when she's all excited toddling about when she's 1 or 2 years old. I'll be using it for her to collect her thoughts and prepare for bedtime.


----------



## Lauki

Dragonfly said:


> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I know :flower:
> 
> Phew. I thought I was going nuts there! :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> no, but I think people always think I am looking a row when I am not its really just conversation I do ask a lot of questions sometimes and waffle on :blush: helps me get others views and understand more , even forms my views and opinions. :coffee:Click to expand...

I think following your babies lead is brilliant! Yes it's not good to prevent your baby from developing things they want to develop/learn, but there's so much pressure nowadays for little babies to grow up. It's like certain things HAVE to happen at a certain age, otherwise something is 'wrong'.. 

I hope to be able to follow Sophies lead, just like you do with your kids!


----------



## ashley2pink

You know, I hear quite often that breastfed toddlers are clingy and dependent. Just the same as I hear that if you hold your baby too much the same will happen. But it's the opposite. They actually are more independent and grow into more confident children and adults when their needs are met without restriction.


----------



## mum22ttc#3

ashley2pink said:


> You know, I hear quite often that breastfed toddlers are clingy and dependent. Just the same as I hear that if you hold your baby too much the same will happen. But it's the opposite. They actually are more independent and grow into more confident children and adults when their needs are met without restriction.

Personally I also think the upbringing and the raising of that particular child has alto to do with it, I really don't think it depends just on the way the baby is fed. I think you can raise a child to be both independent and confident whether you choose either breast or formula. 

I don't know what statistics say but if somebody told me if I breast fed my baby then I really wouldn't read anything into it. :)


----------



## HellBunny

Foogirl said:


> HellBunny said:
> 
> 
> Not trying to cause a debate, but a 10 month old who is advanced could say for example "mummy, milk" does that mean they are too old for it? :S :wacko:
> 
> As an aside, I always said this about chocolate. When she could ask for it she could have it. She talked very early and could certainly say chocolate at 13 months. No way she was getting it though!
> 
> Just had another thought though. For those who have said a relatively high age, they think is acceptable for BFing, do they feel the same about children drinking from bottles? Would you be happy to see a 4 year old drinking out of a bottle?Click to expand...


To be honest i couldn't care less, i'm not biased in anyway as i bottle fed my boy and i plan to breastfeed this time, so i don't tend to put much thought into how a baby is drinking or a 4 year old, its not really that relevant to me.


----------



## Arisa

LOL no chocolate at 13months? its nice to give your LO a treat when they turn one but thats me, and my parents and DH and his parents :) everyone is different though

There was a lady breastfeeding her little girl in the waiting room at midwives surgery today and she was so relaxed and happy, its a special thing really, i did not realize until being pregnant though


----------



## lisaf

On the topic of mothers who hold back their child's development. My friend who is a teacher knows of a kid at her school who is potty-trained but whose mother puts him in diapers over the weekends because she 'misses him being a baby'. UGH.

Not a comment on extended breastfeeding, just saying holding a child back DOES happen.


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## ashley2pink

mum22ttc#3 said:


> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> You know, I hear quite often that breastfed toddlers are clingy and dependent. Just the same as I hear that if you hold your baby too much the same will happen. But it's the opposite. They actually are more independent and grow into more confident children and adults when their needs are met without restriction.
> 
> Personally I also think the upbringing and the raising of that particular child has alto to do with it, I really don't think it depends just on the way the baby is fed. I think you can raise a child to be both independent and confident whether you choose either breast or formula.
> 
> I don't know what statistics say but if somebody told me if I breast fed my baby then I really wouldn't read anything into it. :)Click to expand...

Yes. I wasnt just saying bf babies are more confident. I was only trying to imply that bf'ing past infancy doesnt keep them as babies longer. It actually helps them be more independent. Just like holding your baby whenever they fuss or cry is meeting their needs and in turn will make them more confident. But I was just giving those 2 examples since we are on the bf'ing topic. There are more ways to build a confident child too


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## mum22ttc#3

ashley2pink said:


> mum22ttc#3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ashley2pink said:
> 
> 
> You know, I hear quite often that breastfed toddlers are clingy and dependent. Just the same as I hear that if you hold your baby too much the same will happen. But it's the opposite. They actually are more independent and grow into more confident children and adults when their needs are met without restriction.
> 
> Personally I also think the upbringing and the raising of that particular child has alto to do with it, I really don't think it depends just on the way the baby is fed. I think you can raise a child to be both independent and confident whether you choose either breast or formula.
> 
> I don't know what statistics say but if somebody told me if I breast fed my baby then I really wouldn't read anything into it. :)Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. I wasnt just saying bf babies are more confident. I was only trying to imply that bf'ing past infancy doesnt keep them as babies longer. It actually helps them be more independent. Just like holding your baby whenever they fuss or cry is meeting their needs and in turn will make them more confident. But I was just giving those 2 examples since we are on the bf'ing topic. There are more ways to build a confident child tooClick to expand...

Oh no I get that, I was actually agreeing, if anyone said to me any of the examples you used then I would just dismiss them personally. Again there are so many factors. :)


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## Natsku

I'm so glad I'm still breastfeeding, when the other day Maria fell over in the supermarket and started screaming and everyone was giving me dirty looks so I popped her on the boob and she calmed down straight away - phew!


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## Staceysparkle

I said whenever the child chooses to self wean no matter what age. Sadly bf didn't work out for me and LO and 9 months on I'm still upset by this but if I was breastfeeding I think I would continue as long as LO wanted to.


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## Dragonfly

lisaf said:


> On the topic of mothers who hold back their child's development. My friend who is a teacher knows of a kid at her school who is potty-trained but whose mother puts him in diapers over the weekends because she 'misses him being a baby'. UGH.
> 
> Not a comment on extended breastfeeding, just saying holding a child back DOES happen.

Thats not right at all :wacko: I cant wait for mine to be out of nappies!


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## xxClaire_24xx

em I never BF I expressed but I would not feel comfortable with a child older than 18 months and I would def not do it when they are at school but thats just my opinion and def each to their own I say but I do agree with the bullying side of things xx


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## Foogirl

Natsku said:


> I'm so glad I'm still breastfeeding, when the other day Maria fell over in the supermarket and started screaming and everyone was giving me dirty looks so I popped her on the boob and she calmed down straight away - phew!

Yes, I do miss my magic boobs!


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## T-Bex

I'll stop breastfeeding when she wants to stop!

I initally thought you stopped when they got teeth, because I had never met another woman who breastfed, and didn't know how it worked... :dohh:


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## Foogirl

Arisa said:


> LOL no chocolate at 13months? its nice to give your LO a treat when they turn one but thats me, and my parents and DH and his parents :) everyone is different though
> 
> There was a lady breastfeeding her little girl in the waiting room at midwives surgery today and she was so relaxed and happy, its a special thing really, i did not realize until being pregnant though

It was partly because she has a dairy intolerance and we hadn't found asda's fabby free from range, but also because I'm a real chocolate fiend and didn't want to pass that to her so young. At 2 and a half though, she does get more than enough to make up for it!


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