# Taking term time holidays.



## Noodlebear

I don't have a school aged child but my youngest siblings are still at school and many of my friends have LOs who now go. I still can't get over how outrageously strict the rules on taking children out of school are. Some would never dream of doing it, others just want to take their children on a holiday that won't cost the Earth. Aslong as parents are reasonable and aren't doing it every single term and their child isn't off sick a lot then I really think it should be at their discrection and they should be allowed to request 10 days for their children.

I don't want a debate, if you agree that children shouldn't be allowed to take absences from school then it won't affect you either way and that's fine :) Just thought I'd share this petition with those who are against it all and would like to sign it/share with others if anyone hadn't already seen it, I've only just stumbled across it! Lol.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/reverse-the-changes-to-school-term-time-family-holiday-rules


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## lindseymw

I completely agree with you.

We are actually stuck with DH's shift pattern. He gets no say/choice when his leave is. So far, from September none of his leave has fallen on the school's leave. It will in May half term (so far anyway but there is talk of transferring him to a new shift), which we are planning to go away. Price difference was around £1,000 for the week before!


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## Eternal

I agree ... I'm pulling mine out of nursery to go but still made to feel guilty even though it's not a legal requirement. My eldest has autism and he cannot cope with other children, noise, crowds etc, he lashes out when others get close, so I cant see how we can ever go until he can learn to cope. So frustrating, especially when they are so young, different if he was sitting exams etc.


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## messica

I read the petition but am having a hard time understanding it....are you guys really not allowed to take your children out of school for a family vacation?


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## Noodlebear

Obviously children have school holidays and companies see that as an opportunity to charge extortionate amounts of money which can be a real problem aswell as all the issues of parents working away, having to get leave from work etc. Up until last year it was up to the headmaster to grant children extra time off from school for holidays, now you're just not allowed unless there are exceptional circumstances. There have been cases in the papers of parents being fined ridiculous amounts of money for doing so.


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## karlilay

I have already signed :)

I'm taking Madi out of school on 7th July, just for a Haven trip with The Sun Holidays.
That's Our holiday, it's all we can afford, and they don't do them during holidays, so so be it, they can fine me all they like, she is my child. 

(it's also £400 cheaper WITH the fine!!!)


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## Noodlebear

It's completely insane that it's cheaper to take a term time holiday AND pay a fine! I can't believe that....


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## aimee-lou

Noodlebear said:


> It's completely insane that it's cheaper to take a term time holiday AND pay a fine! I can't believe that....

Doesn't surprise me at all! We're going away in june for 2 weeks. It's the last time we'll ever be able to do this (Hubby starts teacher training in September so even without the kids, he wouldn't be able to take time off either!) so we're making the most of it. 2 weeks in a top caravan in Cornwall for 5 of us plus FIL and his gf, all mod cons etc, £800. Same place, caravan etc 1 month later so in school holidays - £1800!!! :wacko:


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## Eternal

We are away for a week at a hotel next week, costing about £1000, would be at least double for school holidays. So annoying, as I said my issue is more that my ASD child can't cope with noise and crowds etc yet, annoys me that there is no flexibility in it, especially when they are happy to exclude a 3 year old at a drop of the hat but not allow him to take holiday.


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## Noodlebear

The more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems.


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## kerrie24

I agree its ridiculous! We havent been able to afford a holiday abroad for the last 3 years because of the threat of fines and sky high prices outside term time.Its one week of the year we really enjoy and look forward to.It is ridiculous.Our school has a large amount of people whose family live in other countries and when they go AWOL for 3-6 months they never get fined as its not a holiday apparently.


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## WW1

kerrie24 said:


> I agree its ridiculous! We havent been able to afford a holiday abroad for the last 3 years because of the threat of fines and sky high prices outside term time.Its one week of the year we really enjoy and look forward to.It is ridiculous.Our school has a large amount of people whose family live in other countries and when they go AWOL for 3-6 months they never get fined as its not a holiday apparently.

Are you sure about your last comment? We have a number of families with families overseas and the rules apply to them too. If they take term time holiday, they get fined. The only exception is serious illness of a relative. 

If they're not back in 4 weeks, they're taken off role. If they are away longer, they would only get the space back if there is a space in the year group on their return. Assuming your school is a Local authority school, the rules are likely to be similar.


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## Celesse

What annoys me most is that if I decided to home school I could take my child away whenever. If I decide to send them to school then I'm stuck with the school holidays, even though they will most certainly be getting an education (or sorts) whilst on holiday. 

Looking at it I think to begin with we will just pay the fine and book term time. Its cheaper and DD will probably learn far more from a week or two camping than at school. More than willing to carry on what she's learning at school, we can do phonetics of seaside words and count sea shells or whatever. 

I think perhaps closer to exam years it will be better to stick to school holidays, but at primary school I'm not gonna worry that her education will be lacking as it wont be.


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## kerrie24

WW1 said:


> kerrie24 said:
> 
> 
> I agree its ridiculous! We havent been able to afford a holiday abroad for the last 3 years because of the threat of fines and sky high prices outside term time.Its one week of the year we really enjoy and look forward to.It is ridiculous.Our school has a large amount of people whose family live in other countries and when they go AWOL for 3-6 months they never get fined as its not a holiday apparently.
> 
> Are you sure about your last comment? We have a number of families with families overseas and the rules apply to them too. If they take term time holiday, they get fined. The only exception is serious illness of a relative.
> 
> If they're not back in 4 weeks, they're taken off role. If they are away longer, they would only get the space back if there is a space in the year group on their return. Assuming your school is a Local authority school, the rules are likely to be similar.Click to expand...

Yes I am sure,there are families I know who had 3 months off more than once and still returned to the school,even though they say its oversubscribed.


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## WW1

kerrie24 said:


> WW1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kerrie24 said:
> 
> 
> I agree its ridiculous! We havent been able to afford a holiday abroad for the last 3 years because of the threat of fines and sky high prices outside term time.Its one week of the year we really enjoy and look forward to.It is ridiculous.Our school has a large amount of people whose family live in other countries and when they go AWOL for 3-6 months they never get fined as its not a holiday apparently.
> 
> Are you sure about your last comment? We have a number of families with families overseas and the rules apply to them too. If they take term time holiday, they get fined. The only exception is serious illness of a relative.
> 
> If they're not back in 4 weeks, they're taken off role. If they are away longer, they would only get the space back if there is a space in the year group on their return. Assuming your school is a Local authority school, the rules are likely to be similar.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I am sure,there are families I know who had 3 months off more than once and still returned to the school,even though they say its oversubscribed.Click to expand...

If you know it to be true and you're unhappy, ask the school for a copy of their attendance policy and complain to the Governors if you wish to. Were these examples pre Sep 2013 because the rules became much more strict at that point. Prior to that, there was more Headteacher discretion.


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## kerrie24

These cases probably were before sept yeah,time passes so quickly I cant be sure.I do know one person who just took 3 months out and someone else took a week to go to london but niether got fined.


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## monkee12

I do agree with you regarding it being stupid however I can also see it from the governments point of view, personally I blame the holiday companies, if they lowered the prices during half term then people wouldn't feel the need to take holidays during term time, risking a fine and child welfare on their backs. It's sad really :(


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## kerrie24

Absolutely.The teachers also could take more holidays then as they dont have the option of going during termtime.


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## morri

it is definitely not allowed here. maybe a day before holiday because of the flights but deffo no unexcused absenses during term


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## monkee12

I can see why they have done it though :( i'm not sure about every school but with my DDs school, anything under 85% is a fine and they put Child Welfare on the case, if it continues then the parent can be taken to court :( its a shame really, I know we can never go on holiday as we can't afford to go during half term :(


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## Noodlebear

That was the case when I was a kid (Maybe not 85% but a similar system) so it's not like it wasn't policed before. I understand having a line, I'm not condoning poor overall attendance at all. It's very different now though and totally ridiculous. We don't even have to send them to school, we can home school them, so if we catch them up why is it acceptable to have someone dictate to us what we can and can't do with our children? Especially while they're at primary school!


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## monkee12

I do agree with you, unfortunately many people now keep their children off school for no reason which means the government/council/schools are taking action to prevent that happening, its just a shame it tares everyone :( as I said before I am happy for this to be enforced, however i'm not happy that holiday companies, decide to jump on the price hike bandwagon..


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## Noodlebear

They should've been more vigilant with the previous rules if they were having issues, perhaps as attendance started nearing the lower limits they should've given more warnings and made more serious steps to preventing it. I don't think it's acceptable AT ALL to tar everyone with the same brush. I work with countless other parents, when my son goes to school what happens then? We can't all go on holiday at the same time so we're not only meant to pay ridiculous prices for it or face a fine but are we meant to alternate so that we're only allowed 1 holiday every 3 or 4 years so that everyone gets a turn? The same with my OH, so then what if we can't get the same week off? That is a joke. Their prices have ALWAYS gone up in school holidays, it's not them jumping on the bandwagon it's the government making life difficult.


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## monkee12

I agree with you, it's not fair, 2 years ago I got to go Egypt in April halftterm a week all inclusive with my Los less then a grand all inclusive, this year it would cost us around 2 grand so prices have gone up alot, My OH is in the forces and is unable to get a half term off until Aug when prices are at the highest :-(


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## Rachel_C

I think people focus on the wrong thing when criticising the rules. I'm sure it's beneficial to the child concerned to go on holiday - quality time with the family, new experiences, new cultures etc but it's not just about them, is it? What about the teacher who will have to either spend their own free time helping the child catch up or take time out of teaching other children/planning lessons for the whole class to help the one child who's been away? I don't think other children and the teacher should 'pay' for my child to go on holiday like that. 

I have no issues taking MY children out of school but I won't do it because it's not fair to OTHER people's children. It's not all about my family, which I think people forget. I've chosen to send my kids to school so I need to think of the other kids. If I want to live by my own rules, I need to home educate. 

I don't think it's fair that prices are so much higher in school holidays but I think people should focus on getting that changed - perhaps the government should look at ways to make sure companies can only charge a set percentage more than the average for the rest of the year during school holidays? Or maybe different local authorities should move their holidays around so it's harder for holiday companies to set the dates for increased prices. I don't think it's the schools' faults so I don't think the schools should be the ones dealing with the problem of children causing disruption to the rest of the class by going away in term time.


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## Noodlebear

It should be up to the parents to catch their children up, not the teachers. If you wouldn't take your child out during term time then that's cool, the new rules won't make a difference to you.


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## monkee12

Many parents won't though, that's the problem. If I had enough time in the day I would home school, I do as much as I can with my children but find it hard to dedicate alot of time to catching them up, I try doing day trips to compensate not going on holiday, however even that gets expensive now x


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## Rhi_Rhi1

The schools should set their own holidays (I know academies can) so schools within the same area are off at roughly the same time but so it is varied across the country... my lo happens to be at an academy but they haven't changed their holidays which alot of people are annoyed about. Even moving the summer holidays around a week in either direction would make a huge dent in the cost etc x


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## Foogirl

Rhi_Rhi1 said:


> The schools should set their own holidays (I know academies can) so schools within the same area are off at roughly the same time but so it is varied across the country... my lo happens to be at an academy but they haven't changed their holidays which alot of people are annoyed about. Even moving the summer holidays around a week in either direction would make a huge dent in the cost etc x

Not really. If the school holiday season was extended by half the schools, either side of the holidays, then these weeks would simply be designated as peak season too. This is already the case where some places consider the last two weeks of summer term as peak season because that is when the Scottish Schools are off.

The argument the travel industry make is, they have to make a profit during peak season to make up for the fact that in the low season they run at a loss. Speak to anyone involved, especially folk who live and work in tourist destinations. If you own a hotel or restaurant in Cornwall, You are only making money 6 months in a year. You have to make sure you can afford to live on your profit for the whole year. And during that 6 month period you have to employ more staff, which is a costly thing to do. That is the real reason why prices are much higher during the holiday season. It's about supply and demand, rather than profiteering which is what they are accused of. I know it seems unfair that some people can't afford to go on holiday but that's just the way of the world. We rarely had overseas holidays when I was younger. We went camping in the UK every year. Cheap holidays are still possible to have and we enjoyed every minute of them. Because of our daughter's disability we find it impossible to travel abroad. So guess what? We don't. We have managed to get away somewhere, every summer, in the UK, and at a fraction of the cost of an overseas holiday. It can be done and for us is far less stressful than having to take her and all her equipment on a plane.


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## WW1

Rhi_Rhi1 said:


> The schools should set their own holidays (I know academies can) so schools within the same area are off at roughly the same time but so it is varied across the country... my lo happens to be at an academy but they haven't changed their holidays which alot of people are annoyed about. Even moving the summer holidays around a week in either direction would make a huge dent in the cost etc x

This could potentially become a nightmare for teachers with families. My daughter is in one authority and I'm just over the border teaching in another. Our half term and 1 week of Easter have not matched so DH has had to use annual leave to cover it. Thankfully I'm part time so it's not two full weeks but given my hubby only gets 4 weeks per year (which we have to take at peak times), it's quite a proportion of his leave. If all schools have separate holidays, prices will go up all year and many teachers will be left with holidays separate to their children. I know this wouldn't impact on everyone but staff who work in schools do make up a fair amount of the workforce!


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## SarahP13

Foogirl said:


> Rhi_Rhi1 said:
> 
> 
> The schools should set their own holidays (I know academies can) so schools within the same area are off at roughly the same time but so it is varied across the country... my lo happens to be at an academy but they haven't changed their holidays which alot of people are annoyed about. Even moving the summer holidays around a week in either direction would make a huge dent in the cost etc x
> 
> Not really. If the school holiday season was extended by half the schools, either side of the holidays, then these weeks would simply be designated as peak season too. This is already the case where some places consider the last two weeks of summer term as peak season because that is when the Scottish Schools are off.
> 
> The argument the travel industry make is, they have to make a profit during peak season to make up for the fact that in the low season they run at a loss. Speak to anyone involved, especially folk who live and work in tourist destinations. If you own a hotel or restaurant in Cornwall, You are only making money 6 months in a year. You have to make sure you can afford to live on your profit for the whole year. And during that 6 month period you have to employ more staff, which is a costly thing to do. That is the real reason why prices are much higher during the holiday season. It's about supply and demand, rather than profiteering which is what they are accused of. I know it seems unfair that some people can't afford to go on holiday but that's just the way of the world. We rarely had overseas holidays when I was younger. We went camping in the UK every year. Cheap holidays are still possible to have and we enjoyed every minute of them. Because of our daughter's disability we find it impossible to travel abroad. So guess what? We don't. We have managed to get away somewhere, every summer, in the UK, and at a fraction of the cost of an overseas holiday. It can be done and for us is far less stressful than having to take her and all her equipment on a plane.Click to expand...

Thank you for saying this! I've been meaning to post about this for a while. My husband works in the travel industry - business rather than tourism- but he is well aware of the loss the travel company's suffer during off peak times. If they are forced to lower their prices during school holidays then they will simply have to raise them for the rest of the year. So, yes, you may then get lower prices but people without kids will have to pay a lot more. Then they'll refuse and travel companies will go out of business. That's simplified hugely but as Foogirl said it's all about supply and demand, not profiteering. And they are a business after all!!


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## WW1

Foogirl said:


> Rhi_Rhi1 said:
> 
> 
> The schools should set their own holidays (I know academies can) so schools within the same area are off at roughly the same time but so it is varied across the country... my lo happens to be at an academy but they haven't changed their holidays which alot of people are annoyed about. Even moving the summer holidays around a week in either direction would make a huge dent in the cost etc x
> 
> Not really. If the school holiday season was extended by half the schools, either side of the holidays, then these weeks would simply be designated as peak season too. This is already the case where some places consider the last two weeks of summer term as peak season because that is when the Scottish Schools are off.
> 
> The argument the travel industry make is, they have to make a profit during peak season to make up for the fact that in the low season they run at a loss. Speak to anyone involved, especially folk who live and work in tourist destinations. If you own a hotel or restaurant in Cornwall, You are only making money 6 months in a year. You have to make sure you can afford to live on your profit for the whole year. And during that 6 month period you have to employ more staff, which is a costly thing to do. That is the real reason why prices are much higher during the holiday season. It's about supply and demand, rather than profiteering which is what they are accused of. I know it seems unfair that some people can't afford to go on holiday but that's just the way of the world. We rarely had overseas holidays when I was younger. We went camping in the UK every year. Cheap holidays are still possible to have and we enjoyed every minute of them. Because of our daughter's disability we find it impossible to travel abroad. So guess what? We don't. We have managed to get away somewhere, every summer, in the UK, and at a fraction of the cost of an overseas holiday. It can be done and for us is far less stressful than having to take her and all her equipment on a plane.Click to expand...

It's interesting how expectations have changed over time. When I was a kid (late 70s and 80s) very few of my friends went abroad for our holidays - we simply didn't have the money and it wouldn't have occurred to us that we should go. My family holidays as a child involved camping or going in a caravan. We loved it! Even in the midst of August you can get a campsite pitch for a reasonable price. Holidays don't have to coat the earth - but I accept camping is not everyone's cup of tea!


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## RachA

I totally refuse to sign petitions regarding allowing term time holidays. We have 13 weeks of the year in which to take family holidays and i think it's down to the holiday companies to reduce the cost of the holidays.
I also don't think it's hugely more expensive to take holidays during school holidays anyway - we are going to rhodes this year for two weeks half board in the summer holidays and it's costing us less that we paid for 2 weeks to crete in september a couple of years ago. The hotel we are staying in this time is a better hotel too. If you are savvy then you can pick holidays up for really good prices.

The only time that i think there should be exceptions are for those people who have no say in when they are allowed their time off work.


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## Noodlebear

So don't sign it then :shrug: I've posted for those that would be interested :thumbup:


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## Pearls18

I've signed, it's too controlling and draconian in my books. As a military family we have very little say as to when DH can take leave (in the posting he has now at least). I totally understand why this has needed to come in but I think it's a lazy way to resolve the issues and punishes everyone, I won't go into it anymore as this isn't a debate thread but just wanted to say I agree with you and have signed :)


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## HPmum2B

I do not have school age children yet, but I resent someone telling me how to parent my own children. I will decide if a holiday is worth missing school for.

When i was a child, we went on lots of holidays and I was very well traveled and mostly in the school holidays. However, my parents took us out of school on two occasions.

When I was 12 we went to Australia for christmas, as it was such a long way to go, my parents decided to take us for a month. For this I had to miss about two weeks of school. I am one of five children, three of us missed a week of school. My oldest brother and sister were 17 and 18 at the time, and they flew out a week later as they were studying A-levels at the time, so my mum and dad did not want them to miss so much. We always went to 'education' places too. (eg Cooks landing place).

Two years later, we went to South Africa, this was in a half term, however, we went for about 11 days, so it overlapped into the school term. While I was there I visited Nelson Mandalas prison cell and toured the whole of Robin Island (where the prison is). I learned a lot about apartide. Saw shanty towns. And went to boulders beach (where you can literally sunbathe with penguins).

To me these were experiences worth missing school for, I got so much from it that you just can't get from books.

I don't think a fine will stop me taking my kids out.

As for the person that thinks it makes a teachers life harder... I don't remember any teachers 'catching me up'. I remember picking up missed work off my friends. And my parents going through it with me.


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## Foogirl

I totally agree travel can broaden the mind and can be as much of an education as school. Mostly though, parents are doing it for two weeks on a beach in Magaluf. Not much broadening there.


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## SarahP13

Our first holiday with DD1 was to Australia and we are planning to go to South Africa this year. Obviously the kids are too young to get much out of it at the mo but, on the whole, these types of holidays can be educational and worth taking kids out of school for. 

However, as foo girl said, a lot of people are just going to the beach for a week. I do think family holidays are very important but I don't agree with taking kids out of school for a beach holiday. It is possible to get cheaper holidays closer to home during school holidays. 

The only exception are those who are in the military for example, I think some special treatment should be given there. 

Unfortunately it's not a black and white issue but education should take priority in my opinion.


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## Noodlebear

I agree that education is vital and yes, it's not black and white. It's not about whether or not you personally would do it but whether it's right to have the restrictions forced upon everyone. I'm not saying I ever would take LO out of school for a holiday but I'm not having someone tell me I can't. My child, my choice. Especially as, for working parents, you have to jump on whatever time off you can have together.


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## monkee12

SarahP13 said:


> Our first holiday with DD1 was to Australia and we are planning to go to South Africa this year. Obviously the kids are too young to get much out of it at the mo but, on the whole, these types of holidays can be educational and worth taking kids out of school for.
> 
> However, as foo girl said, a lot of people are just going to the beach for a week. I do think family holidays are very important but I don't agree with taking kids out of school for a beach holiday. It is possible to get cheaper holidays closer to home during school holidays.
> 
> The only exception are those who are in the military for example, I think some special treatment should be given there.
> 
> Unfortunately it's not a black and white issue but education should take priority in my opinion.

This, I'm a military wife and we barely get anytime with hubby as it is :(
I do agree with the other posters in the sense that we shouldn't be told when we can spend time with our children, where does it end? first fines, next it will be child welfare and jail time :nope:


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## hattiehippo

I get it's hard for people in some jobs to get the time off that they want and especially in the military you get no choice. And there should therefore be some discretion for these circumstances.

But I am a teacher, I will never be able to take my son on a holiday in term time because I can only go on holiday in the school holidays. Yes I get 13 weeks to choose from but it can only ever be the expensive ones.

My mum was also a teacher so I grew up with holidays in the UK in school holiday time. I never felt I was missing out on 'learning experiences' by not going on exotic holidays during school time.


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## JASMAK

Crazy! Mine are missing three weeks of school for a trip to Mexico. We are leaving in 12 days. :) I hired two teachers to help them stay on track, but I TOLD the school. I don't ask. They are my kids.


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## monkee12

It's 60 per parent for each child if paid within 21 days, rising to 120 per parent for each child if paid after 21 days but within 28, if jot paid within 28 days then it can be prosecution, that's what it says on our attendance letter.. Yikes


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## Pearls18

monkee12 said:


> It's 60 per parent for each child if paid within 21 days, rising to 120 per parent for each child if paid after 21 days but within 28, if jot paid within 28 days then it can be prosecution, that's what it says on our attendance letter.. Yikes

I think they are going to be doing special dispensation for military families, but I'm not sure if this is around deployment only. My husband has 50 days of annual leave owed to him...he can barely take any leave at the moment let alone choose when lol.


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## Noodlebear

JASMAK said:


> Crazy! Mine are missing three weeks of school for a trip to Mexico. We are leaving in 12 days. :) I hired two teachers to help them stay on track, but *I TOLD the school. I don't ask. They are my kids*.

:thumbup: this is absolutely how it should be.


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## WW1

hattiehippo said:


> I get it's hard for people in some jobs to get the time off that they want and especially in the military you get no choice. And there should therefore be some discretion for these circumstances.
> 
> But I am a teacher, I will never be able to take my son on a holiday in term time because I can only go on holiday in the school holidays. Yes I get 13 weeks to choose from but it can only ever be the expensive ones.
> 
> My mum was also a teacher so I grew up with holidays in the UK in school holiday time. I never felt I was missing out on 'learning experiences' by not going on exotic holidays during school time.

I am also a teacher so in the same boat but this ruling will make school holidays even more expensive and harder to get. Also my DH is not a teacher and there is a distinct possibility he won't get holidays at the same time as only a certain number of people can be off at the same time. Now everyone wants 4/ the same 13 weeks it will mean even fewer get their choice. I don't care about going abroad (we tend to holiday in the UK) but I would prefer to holiday with my DD and DH at the same time!

The other issue I have is she's MY child (and DH's of course) - and no one takes her education more seriously than I do. If I feel a holiday is going to have a greater educational benefit then it should be my choice to make. I know some parents just want a week in the sun (and I'm not sure that is bad either) but as ever the government have gone to the lowest common denominator and told everyone they can't do something even if it may benefit some. Most parents don't take their children out anyway so it's unnecessary meddling in my opinion.


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## monkee12

MarineWAG said:


> monkee12 said:
> 
> 
> It's 60 per parent for each child if paid within 21 days, rising to 120 per parent for each child if paid after 21 days but within 28, if jot paid within 28 days then it can be prosecution, that's what it says on our attendance letter.. Yikes
> 
> I think they are going to be doing special dispensation for military families, but I'm not sure if this is around deployment only. My husband has 50 days of annual leave owed to him...he can barely take any leave at the moment let alone choose when lol.Click to expand...

That's like my hubby x


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## Foogirl

monkee12 said:


> This, I'm a military wife and we barely get anytime with hubby as it is :(
> I do agree with the other posters in the sense that we shouldn't be told when we can spend time with our children, where does it end? first fines, next it will be child welfare and jail time :nope:

I'm not sure I agree with it just being a military dispensation though. There are loads of professions where families get limited time together because of work patterns forced upon them. I think the idea of having a fixed number of days per pupil per year where there can be an "unauthorised" absence without there being a penalty is the best way to go. That way ALL families can make sure holiday time is spent together.


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## Pearls18

Foogirl said:


> monkee12 said:
> 
> 
> This, I'm a military wife and we barely get anytime with hubby as it is :(
> I do agree with the other posters in the sense that we shouldn't be told when we can spend time with our children, where does it end? first fines, next it will be child welfare and jail time :nope:
> 
> I'm not sure I agree with it just being a military dispensation though. There are loads of professions where families get limited time together because of work patterns forced upon them. I think the idea of having a fixed number of days per pupil per year where there can be an "unauthorised" absence without there being a penalty is the best way to go. That way ALL families can make sure holiday time is spent together.Click to expand...

Absolutely, I don't think either of us have said that we should be the only ones for special dispensation but just that it highlights the flaws in the new system, we are lucky in that they will probably ensure military families don't lose out on this due to the nature of their jobs (it's obviously not just that annual leave is hard to take but that special leave is given before and after deployment to enable us to spend time with them before/after long absences and we can't dictate when this will be).

My dad was a postman and he rarely got to pick his annual leave when I was younger, in my mum's work they are all parents and when I was younger my mum couldn't take a lot of school holidays as she had to share when amongst all the other parents.

As I say I think the policy is lazy and badly thought out, the military is just an easy example of highlighting this but certainly not the only one. It punishes everyone.


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## Foogirl

There are schools who do allow children to take time off during special leave already, as they absolutely should in that situation. I think at the moment there isn't a blanket rule for military families, it is up to individual head teachers in individual cases.


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## HPmum2B

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that local councils can choose whether or not to enforce this new law. So whether you get fined or not, is down to your local authority.


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## Pearls18

Foogirl said:


> There are schools who do allow children to take time off during special leave already, as they absolutely should in that situation. I think at the moment there isn't a blanket rule for military families, it is up to individual head teachers in individual cases.

Yeah it's something the Families' Federations are looking into I believe, but with the military covenant and schools getting money for accepting military children I doubt it'll be too difficult for us (not that it would be something I would do at all often), however, I live near base, some families live unaccompanied so I'm not sure what this would mean if you were the only forces' child in the school, they may be less understanding. But anyhow as you say it doesn't just affect military families, which is why I am so against the way it is being handled at the moment.


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## Noodlebear

HPmum2B said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that local councils can choose whether or not to enforce this new law. So whether you get fined or not, is down to your local authority.

I don't get what difference that makes...?


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## Foogirl

Noodlebear said:


> HPmum2B said:
> 
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that local councils can choose whether or not to enforce this new law. So whether you get fined or not, is down to your local authority.
> 
> I don't get what difference that makes...?Click to expand...

I think it means that no matter how successful any petition is, or how the legislation ends up, everyone is still at the mercy of individuals of local councils or local schools, which is how the situation is at the moment.


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## Noodlebear

Yeah I get that but I mean that you're still being dictated to. I don't think it matters who's doing it.


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## Foogirl

Noodlebear said:


> Yeah I get that but I mean that you're still being dictated to. I don't think it matters who's doing it.

Oh for sure. But I can't see anything proposed which will change that. And to be honest, without being too philosophical about it, isn't that just the way of life? We're all dictated to by governments, councils, employers, corporations to some extent.:shrug:

I mean, I get annoyed when a shop closes too early when I want to buy something from it. Isn't that my shopping habits being dictated by a corporation?

My boss get pissed off when I'm late. But I'm late because I can't get all my daughter's therapy done first thing in the morning without being late. So they are asking me to choose between my daughter and my job. That's being dictated to for sure!


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## RachA

Foogirl said:


> Noodlebear said:
> 
> 
> Yeah I get that but I mean that you're still being dictated to. I don't think it matters who's doing it.
> 
> Oh for sure. But I can't see anything proposed which will change that. And to be honest, without being too philosophical about it, isn't that just the way of life? We're all dictated to by governments, councils, employers, corporations to some extent.:shrug:
> 
> I mean, I get annoyed when a shop closes too early when I want to buy something from it. Isn't that my shopping habits being dictated by a corporation?
> 
> My boss get pissed off when I'm late. But I'm late because I can't get all my daughter's therapy done first thing in the morning without being late. So they are asking me to choose between my daughter and my job. That's being dictated to for sure!Click to expand...

I agree with this. Many people work in environments whereby they are dictated to by someone. My OH used to work for a company where he HAD to take 2 weeks of his holidays together so he didn't actually have the choice that he wanted. 

I understand that we don't like being told what to do but actually if we want to take our children out of school we still can-we will just get fined for doing so. Chances are the overall cost of the holiday we book will still be cheaper if we do it in term time. 
I would have no problem in taking mine out of school if we were doing a holiday that was actually going to be educational for them but I don't see why I should take them out of school for 2 weeks just to be with them while they play on the sand on another country. 

I think it's a good thing to teach our children that life isn't easy or fair and to me part of that is sticking to policies like this otherwise what you are actually teaching children is that a policy is in place but we don't actually have to respect that and we can so whatever we want.


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## Noodlebear

I think that's a little different than being told what you can and can't do with your children lol.


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## Gingerspice

My husband works away for long periods of time. He doesn't get much say when he is home. We have to grab the opportunity to get away as family whenever that might be. When my little one hasn't seen her dad for weeks, possibly months abd he gets a week at home before heading off again and we decide to go away. I will. I'll pay the fine. Whatever. I reckon a child getting time with an otherwise often not around father is more important than a week of work which I'll happily take away with us and work through when away....


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## Foogirl

Noodlebear said:


> I think that's a little different than being told what you can and can't do with your children lol.

Not really, after all the school dictates curriculum and food options and uniform and all sort of other stuff.:shrug: And if it weren't for cost, no-one would give a damn.


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## hattiehippo

Foogirl said:


> Noodlebear said:
> 
> 
> I think that's a little different than being told what you can and can't do with your children lol.
> 
> Not really, after all the school dictates curriculum and food options and uniform and all sort of other stuff.:shrug: And if it weren't for cost, no-one would give a damn.Click to expand...

Agree completely. Tbh once your child is at school you will find an awful lot of things are dictated by the school including what they can take in their lunch box, what books they should be reading etc. Not taking your children out in term time is just another small thing to get used to. Just like anything you can still choose to do it but it will just cost you more money if the head teacher and LA are hot on fining for it.

Personally I do think people should be able to take their kids out for up to 2 weeks without consequences but I get why they're doing it. 2 weeks out at the end of a term may not be too disruptive but 2 weeks out in the middle of a topic or just before summer exams can have a big impact on the children.


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## Foogirl

Gingerspice said:


> My husband works away for long periods of time. He doesn't get much say when he is home. We have to grab the opportunity to get away as family whenever that might be. When my little one hasn't seen her dad for weeks, possibly months abd he gets a week at home before heading off again and we decide to go away. I will. I'll pay the fine. Whatever. I reckon a child getting time with an otherwise often not around father is more important than a week of work which I'll happily take away with us and work through when away....

Whether you go away or not, having some time off school when he is home is something you should talk to the school about. I know the fines hit the headlines but most schools do allow some flexibility in these sorts of circumstances.


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## Midnight_Fairy

I asked for a week and it got granted no fight :)


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## shanny

As someone else said - before the meddling this was not so much of an issue -schools and parents could have an adult conversation about this and children could have appropriate time off

I do think that you can't just take a child out whenever..........like at the start of a new school year or around sats and you need to have good attendance too.....just because they are your children does not give you a blanket right to remove them when it suits. Schools are trying to work with you to educate your child.

I think there are more issues to deal with for the children who have persistant days off here and there - ill?


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## Foogirl

I think the problem has arisen because so many people do it. I remember a nursery teacher commenting that on the last two days of term there was only 1 child in the class. Primary classes towards the end of terms can be quite empty so this is why they had to clamp down on it. That said, I still do believe with most schools you still can have an adult conversation with school heads and arrange time off when it is genuinely required.


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## Quartz

The actual wording is this &#8220;(1A) Subject to paragraph (2), leave of absence shall not be granted unless&#8212; 
(a) an application has been made in advance to the proprietor by a parent with whom 
the pupil normally resides; and 
(b) the proprietor, or a person authorised by the proprietor in accordance with 
paragraph (1), considers that leave of absence should be granted due to the 
exceptional circumstances relating to that application.&#8221;; 

which means that the school head does have some leeway and in my opinion things such as military holidays are - going just to get a cheaper holiday would not.

For the cheaper holiday aspect I am torn a little, I think the impact having time off school can be vast depending on the child - socially I think more than academically in the infant school. A week can be a long time and friendships can easily change.

Also (at least in our local authority) its only for 4 days or more. For our holiday we are going the friday before half term its cheaper and we dont get fined. You can save a lot of money going weds-weds in half term without getting the fine.


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## Midnight_Fairy

Foogirl said:


> I think the problem has arisen because so many people do it. I remember a nursery teacher commenting that on the last two days of term there was only 1 child in the class. Primary classes towards the end of terms can be quite empty so this is why they had to clamp down on it. That said, I still do believe with most schools you still can have an adult conversation with school heads and arrange time off when it is genuinely required.

Yep, I think schools are more than willing to help and understand x I asked them for dates that would mean my son didnt miss any tests etc


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