# spoiled and lazy



## ablacketer

right off the bat let me admit that its partially my fault and I know it.

I was a single mom from the time my daughter was 4 till 3 years ago and she is now 14. Im also active duty military.

she has always had a light load as far as chores go. she has never really had to do dishes every day or her own laundry and I gave up the battle on her room long ago. 

she is crazy smart, a huge reader, and basically a good kid. Now to what is driving me to tears. 

she now has 2 responsibilites. When her step dad isnt home (he works 2 days straight off 2 days and works every other weekend) she is supposed to potty our two boxers, water and feed them and do the dishes. When he isnt home, there isnt many dishes because I dont normally make a huge meal, usually just a skillet meal. 

weve had issues with her doing the dishes. Ive explained my expectations (and to step dad who seems to have the same issue with dishes), collect the dishes, rinse them, run the dishwasher, wipe the counters and stove, and sweep the kitchen (only a 10x10 space). Ive explained why I want those things done but I am still fighting to get her to do them!!!!! she wont wipe the counters or sweep. she puts dirty dishes away so the dishwasher is empty for the new dishes. she wont load the whole dishwasher then runs it. I went to get a cup this morning and it was still very obviously dirty! there were spots of dark soda all over the outside and the inside!!! I cant tell you how many times she has had to be made to do the dishes for a solid week or more and its not working!

and the dogs! I wake her up an hour before she needs to leave. I have told her, potty the dogs first over and over and over. yet she is still dashing out the door, "oh I forgot". 

she forgets to feed them, even though I have told her to feed them at 4pm every day. I had to take her dinner away from her and I made her wait an hour from the time she fixed it because when she sat down an hour past the time to feed the dogs to eat, she admitted she hadnt fed them yet.

she wont let them out of their crates at all because she has gotten in trouble for not paying attenting and letting them potty in the house (the younger is almost 3) even though she is sitting in the same room with them watching tv.

and thats another thing. we had to MAKE her try out for dance team last year (she made it and was allowed to accept or decline the invite to be on the team which she accepted), she didnt want to do it again this year. We MADE her choose a physical activity, she chose gymnastics (and I cant take it away as a punishment because she is not hesitant to remind me that she didnt want to do it in the first place). I cant get her to do ANY thing else. Our base offers Teen stuff to do, get togethers, game nights, movies, trips to the mall etc. she has only participated twice in 6 months!!! every time I ask, she says no. 

I dont know what to do with her :(


----------



## ablacketer

I want to add that I literally spent 9 years grounded to my room with nothing but school books (my step dad's version of grounding, no matter what the offense was take away everything and stick us in our room only allowed to emerge to do dishes, eat, shower and bathroom from the time we got home from school till bedtime). I wasnt allowed to do anything, spent the night with 2 different girls, one time each in that nine years. no extra curriculars at all. so it really upsets me that she has all this opportunity and dosent WANT to do any of it.


----------



## Ali33

Do you give her any consequences for not doing what she is supposed to do? My daughter is 9 and until recently she was doing the same thing. I blame myself as I would just do it all on my own. ( I was also a single parent until recently.) She now has a list of chores and I cut her allowance if she doesn't complete the chores she has to do.


----------



## ablacketer

weve tried cutting allowance, once we took the door off her room because she refused to keep it clean (you couldnt walk in there), we've grounded her from all electronics (grounding from the computer had her checking facebook from her phone the little nerd)


----------



## Ali33

Wow... I am at a loss...Maybe take away her phone? That would have killed me at that age lol..


----------



## ablacketer

that was part of the "all electronics" grounding lol


----------



## Ali33

How long do you take the stuff away from her? Maybe you should try stripping her room until she does what she is supposed to do?


----------



## ablacketer

a week usually


----------



## fuffyburra

I don't know what to suggest for the looking after the dogs and doing the dishes really, I would've suggested cutting allowance but obviously you've tried that :shrug: 

My friend has a 12 year old daughter, and her chores were cleaning the dog poop off the lawn and tidying her room. She said she didn't want to clean the poop off the lawn anymore, so her mum called next door's kid round, and asked if he'd like to earn £5 for doing it. When her daughter saw that the money was going to someone else for such an easy job, rather than the money just not going to her, she got pretty upset about it and changed her mind again :haha: 

As far as making her do dance and gym, I would stop making her. My mum MADE me go dancing for 12 years and the resentment I still feel towards her, even though we have a great relationship now, is unimaginable. Even if she mentions dancing I can feel my blood beginning to boil, I felt completely bullied in to it and it was horrible :( I'm just not that in to dance or anything like that, maybe she's just more in to quiet things? I also found that the more my mum pushed me in to something, the less I wanted to do it. Maybe try just leaving her to it and she'll eventually get so bored that she'll begin taking part? If not, she might just be quieter. 

Good luck, hope you manage to get it sorted soon :hugs: she sounds like a good kid really, just a typical teenage girl lol  x x


----------



## ablacketer

we didnt force her into gym specifically, we forced her into a Physical activity. the specific one was her choice and this is what she chose.

Kids that do nothing extra tend to get in trouble and she needs SOMEthing for her college applications. sigh


----------



## Ali33

A week probably isn't enough... she knows she is going to get her stuff anyway so why even try? Maybe you should take it away indefinitely until things improve?


----------



## Sam Pearson

ablacketer said:


> she now has 2 responsibilites.<SNIP>she is supposed to potty our two boxers, water and feed them and do the dishes.

I wonder did your daughter ask to have the dogs? And did she agree to help care for them at the time they were acquired? When she is an adult and independent and if she chooses to get pets she will be responsible for them entirely but in this situation I think it's unreasonable to demand that she care for them.

We have 5 pets. One cat and one dog are my responsibility because I was the one who made the decision to bring them in to our home. So while we all care for them somewhat I am ultimately responsible for their health and wellbeing and cleaning up after their vomit and poo. My youngest daughter asked for a cat for her 4th birthday - she cares for that cat entirely aside from paying the expense and OH and I will always give the cat a tablet if needed because that's a two person job and really hard. My two girls also have a mice each that they asked for and paid for and they are entirely responsible for those animals. I will remind them if needed to clean out the cage or check their food but I don't do it for them.

Did your daughter agree to take on the washing up and cleaning the kitchen as her sole responsibility? If not again I feel it's unreasonable to make it her job and hers alone. You all make mess in the kitchen so what I feel is reasonable, unless one famliy member puts their hand up for that job, is that you take turns.

My kids are expected to contribute their fair share. That means we all spend the same amount of time cleaning although naturally the younger ones will take more time to do jobs and can't do all jobs yet. They know that I am not a housewife, I don't like housework. When they don't pull their weight we never punish them but we talk about why they aren't helping out and what we can do to support them do more - maybe change the jobs they are to do or the times they are to do them or perhaps we might decide to do a job together e.g. cleaning the bathroom was overwhelming my youngest so now we do that together and in return she helps me sort out my workspace. She finds it hard to change her sheets so I help her and in return she helps me change my sheets on the big bed. We try to work out what jobs they can happily do that add up to their fair share rather than allocate jobs for them. I persnoally hate doing floors so my OH does them but he never cleans out the fridge so I do that myself.

I point out to our kids that we are a bunch of people living together and it's not fair for any one person to do more than their share. I also point out that I am doing many jobs they don't like and that in return all I ask is that they do their fair share of work. They agree this is fair. They also agree that they want the house to be fairly clean and tidy, not perfect but to a standard that we can all function in. 

When they let something that they agree to take on lapses I say, "okay, I can see you are struggling to get that chore done so I will do that for you" then I ask them what they would like to do instead. If they say "nothing" then we get back to the discussion about being fair and respecting every family member and not expecting any one person to be a slave for the rest.

My kids do a lot. Almost as much as me. But I never make them do it and I never choose what they do (aside form their own mess which is their own responsibility). 

One day my 9yo announced that she was over housework and was going on strike. I said "okay, but if you choose to do that it means the rest of us will have to do your share of housework for you which won't be fair." She stopped doing anything around the house. Her siblings were naturally not impressed that they had to pick up the slack. I explained to them that for whatever reason, their sister was finding it hard to contribute and that we would simply do her jobs for her until she could contribute again and that I was certain she would pitch in again given time. I explained that if, for whatever reason, they felt they couldn't contribute, we would do the same for them. They still complained. I explained that if they didn't help me do their sister's share they would be leaving me to do all the housework on my own. So they agreed to share the load without her help. We didn't hassle her or punish her. We carried on happily doing the house. She had to lift her feet while we swept, she saw us doing the washing up together, laughing and enjoying the togetherness, she saw me thank her siblings for doing jobs and compliment them on doing them well. After a whole week of watching us work around her she quietly started to chip in and hasn't stopped contributing since (she is almost 12yo now). Actually, she is my most helpful chlid and does the biggest share of work. If we had fought with her and tried to bully her into doing jobs we might still be having problems over it now. At the end of the day all we lost was a week of her help. No biggie but she learned that she actually does want to help and while it was great not having to do chores it didn't feel great being the one not contributing.



ablacketer said:


> she forgets to feed them, even though I have told her to feed them at 4pm every day.

When my dd doesn't feed her cat I don't feed it but casually say "Bean is hungry" and leave it at that. If she still doesn't do it I'll say "Poor Bean must be really hungry now" but I don't feed her cat for her. Naturally, because she loves her cat, she will eventually feed her. Do you think your dd would feed the dogs if you did that? Just not fed them and let her see that without her helping them get to food they are left hungry? Would she be that insentive to not feed the dogs when you remind her and point out they are hungry? I don't think many kids, knowing nobody else will feed them, would leave an animal hungry. If ever my kids can't feed their pets for some reason, say a sleep over, they ask me if I will do it and of course I do.



ablacketer said:


> and thats another thing. we had to MAKE her try out for dance team last year <SNIP>(We MADE her choose a physical activity, she chose gymnastics <S I cant get her to do ANY thing else.

Why do you have to force her to do these things? I have one naturally sedintary child. When we are standing she is sitting, when we sit to watch tv she lies down. She loves to sleep in and the hammock is often where I'll find her. But I realise that forcing her to do things would take all the enjoyment out of it and she would be fighting me to avoid doing those things. I"m not interested in creating a power struggle. So instead I try to find things she wants to do. It's hard e.g. we got her a bike which she never rides.

What I have worked out is that she loves to socialise best of all. When she was not doing any sport or dance in an attempt to get her moving I invited her to walk the dog with me but she would rather stay at home and watch tv. So I got all the other kids and their neighbourhood friends to all get together on an afternoon dog walk That made walking the dog a social event and suddenly she was keen to come along. 

We encourage her to try things but don't force her or make her continue if she's not having fun. After all if I take a dance class that I don't enjoy I don't make myself keep going. We got a Wii and so long as I do it with her she loves to join in so it's great for both of us. I feel that if I force her to do physical stuff it will put her off even more but if I can show her how she can have fun that will be the most positive thing. We cold punish her but that would only affect our relationship and then I'd have less chance of her wanting to do physical things with me becasue she will be cross with me and not wanting to share activities.

My kids do get an allowance but that is independent of any jobs or activities. We don't punish them but try to work with them. When we are at a loss as to how to help them we talk to them about that and ask them what ideas they have. Same when they are bickering and I can't sort it out I sit them down and help them work out their own strategies or I ask them what they think I could do that will help the situation. When kids are involved in the solutin they are usually more willing to stick to the agreement.


----------



## ablacketer

wow, Im at a loss to respond to you. I shouldnt MAKE my child do things that she doesnt like??? thats just insane. 

first, the reason for the dog responsibility. She HAD her own dog. a dog she refused to take care of or train appropriately. a dog that was still CRAPPING in my house at 2 yrs old. she lost her dog (which is NOT fair to any animal) and was given the family dogs to take care of, and yes she had a hand in choosing the second dog). Then we tried letting her have cats, she refused to clean the litter boxes once a week. so bye bye cats (again, not FAIR to the animals) and she was again given the dogs to take care of to show me she can before she gets ANY pet of her own. she has since asked for several pets and because she cannot show me she can care for the dogs, she doesnt get a pet.

lets address dishes, when you have FOUR children in the house you have the option of "sharing" the responsibilities. Im guessing you are also a stay at home mom. Im not. Im active duty military, as is my husband. I have two children living in my home compared to your FOUR. my daughter is the only one capable of any type of chore (I wold love to see what you suggest that a 13 month old baby should do). I make dinner every night, its only FAIR that I not have to do the dishes on TOP of that and an 8 hour work day. My husband takes care of out doors and the trash, and you may want to read my post again, because he does the dishes when he is home which is 1/2 the time so its not her SOLE responsibility. Additionally, he takes care of the dogs when he is home so that is ALSO not her sole responsibility. I wash her clothes, I cook her food, I clean the 2700 square foot home, I take her everywhere she needs wants to go, and I buy her what she needs/wants within reason. its COMPLETELY fair that I ask her to do two chores and only do those two chores HALF the time.

Ive tried everything to get her to feed the dogs, she finally started remembering when I withheld her dinner for over an hour because she was 2 hours late feeding the dogs. 

Justice is not a sedentary child. now that she was pushed to gym she likes it and she reminds ME when she has class. she would just rather spend her time watching tv, reading, surfing the internet etc. I firmly believe letting a child sit around on their butt all the time is setting them up for failure in life. but that isnt even the issue, she would rather sit here than go anywhere. all the social activities on base she turns down unless I push, then she enjoys herself. even that really isnt what Im upset about. Im upset about her half-assing everything that she is asked to do. then giving me tude because I stop her from doing the computer or listening to music to make her do it over. 

and Im sorry, I completely disagree with your parenting style. Life is not fair. Im not setting up my child to struggle later because she expects everything to be fair. everyone to do their fair share. life doesnt work that way, while it may make for a happy child I honestly dont believe she will thank me for that in the long run. I also believe raising a child to believe that they deserve an allowance regardless of what they contribute etc is setting them up to be just like the dirtbags that stole my wallet and used my credit cards, She needs to know that you get nothing in life for free. I want her to have a good work ethic, and learn that you still have to do the unpleasant things in life and that no one is going to reward you for doing the things you have to do. I want my child to know the right way to do things, so she doesnt get salmonilla because she just rinsed a knife and stuck it back in the butcher block.


----------



## Sam Pearson

I do feel that a pet is a huge responsibility, too much for most children, and that as adults when we agree to bring an animal into our home ultimately we need to take responsibility for them. If you could switch the job of caring for the pets for another chore that you currenlty do that takes up an equal amount of time as the pets and if it's a chore that she enjoys more than caring for the pets and is a chore that she has selected for herself, you might find she does that job happily. Personally I would not have got more pets and expected her to care for them when she had already demonstrated that she wasn't capable of responsibly caring for the first dog.

Yes, I am a stay at home Mum but I also run a business from home which takes up a lot of my time and I am also a homeschooling Mum so 4 days of the week are spent out of the home at homeschool activities. I also care for my elderly Godmother who lives next door and have an invalid father who needs a fair amount of my time so I probalby have less time that mother's who work out of the home and utilise paid childcare. Also one of my children have moved out of home leaving three, only two of which are old enough to do chores effectively. Add to that the fact that my hubby works away and is only home for 1.5 days each month I am basically parenting solo. I don't think this is a time issue but one of finding ways to get along peacefully and respectfully and having a situation where everybody contributes. 

Ultimately, I could do all the housework myself but I feel that contributing is important for my children so that they can feel proud of their contribution and also so that they are developing their skills - it takes years of practice to do housework efficiently.

If my daughters were giving me attitude when I turned off the tv or computer or expected them to do chores I'd see that as a much more serius issue than not pulling their weight around the home. I'd be working on my relationship with them and trying to relate to them better which in turn may make them more willing to chip in but ultimately I would do that for the benefit of our longterm relationship rather than to get them to do more housework.

Of course, life isn't fair, but I try to be as fair within my home as possible. I don't see my children struggling because we work with them rather than coerce them to do what we want them to. They get enough of a dose of reality out of our home to learn all about that. My children get a share of the money we have regardless of chores based on their age, it's for clothing and accessories and magazines and bus fairs, things like that. But I made it clear in my post that they are expected to do their fair share of housework which they do not at the threat of having their money withheld or some other punishment but because we work as a team and we treat each other fairly. My older two children work outside the home so they completely understand that you don't get things for free. Their work ethic is sound and their employers value them and compliment me on their responsible attitude. My children, since they aren't punished or rewarded for doing chores, do things they don't like all the time out of a sense of duty and service and because it makes them feel good, they aren't looking for that carrot on the end of a stick. They have learned how to safely deal with food without punishments or rewards. 

I don't mind that you disagree with my parenting style but I will continue with it since my kids happily do more housework than any other kids I know which suits me very well as I'm not willing to be a houseslave and I don't want to have to nag them. I told you of how I do things not to criticise your parenting style but because it might have resonated with you as something worth trying in your own home. If not, no hard feelings, and I hope you can work out a solution with your daughter that suits you.


----------



## LilDreamy

Hi Ablacketer. :hi:

I too am active duty Military stationed in Germany and living as a single parent to a 13 month old. So I don't have personal experience as to how to parent a young adult.

But I did want to say that I don't think you should feel that Sam Pearson was personally attacking you or your parenting style. And people's views and opinions are different from person to person. 

Her suggestions to me, were very informing and good suggestions. I try to keep an open mind to everyone's opinions if what I'm doing doesn't seem to be working.

I too am a fine believer that my children will have to be active in some shape or form whether it be sports, dance, or a club. I never thought of, what if they don't want to. That is a very tough situation to be in and I personally am not sure How I will handle that situation. And I know being in the military and trying to do all of the house work can be sooo flipping annoying! I NEARLY wanted to kill my OH who only visits once a month because he is stationed 3 hours away, because I would cook, and take care of baby, and clean all by myself and he wouldn't lift a finger. I wanted to wringe his neck! :growlmad:
So I know how frustrating it can be, not getting any help. you feel like people don't realize how hard you work and how appreciative they can be. And you would think they would be considerate of you and help out.

I'm guilty of being one of those lazy children. I feel so sorry for my mother... It would take an act of God to get me to do house work. But it WAS because my mom was always yelling at me to get off my ass to help and my house always seemed so angry, so I tended to close up and drown my family out. almost like a depressive state, not saying your daughter is in this position... But they more my mom got angry with me the less I wanted to do. I didn't feel motivated to do anything. I just wanted hide from the world and be left alone. 

At this age, their hormones really are kicking in. And somehow, even though it will be very hard due to the stress you have to put up with day to day just being in the military, there has to be a change to how things are being run. not saying you're parenting wrong, but each child is different. What works for one child won't necessarily work for another.
And sense your daughter sounds a lot like me, I think if you try to work on chores together with her, and be positive about it, and try not to get angry with her, even though it feels impossible not to get angry, she will hopefully change a bit.

And instead of punishing her for not doing something, try rewarding her for doing something. Let her know her hard work pays off. That if you work hard towards something, good things come in the end. it's a lesson on life. Work hard in school, have a good career. Work hard in your job have a good encome. Work hard in a relationship have a loving family and so on.

I wish you luck... And hope I can take my own advice when I get there. 
I'm rather scared raising children/teens. It seems like you have to earn a Masters Degree to doing it right. parenting takes a lot of trial and error. If it isn't working try something different... Even if it isn't what we were raised to believe is the right way to raise our children. Find what works and be flexible. If you want it to work in the end. Hopefully in the end everything will come together and become a lot easier for you and your family.

Hope my message came across as helpful and not a personal attack or anything, because it isn't. just sympathizing, because you are in a very rough situation and I know exactly how you feel trying to be in the military and being a parent.

I think that is the hardest job in the entire world. Being in the military and trying to be a parent. Especially when the military wants to be #1 in our lives, but we have to put our children first of course. Too stressful.


----------



## WantingABubba

There was no need to go off like that on poor Sam. She was only giving you suggestions, and she wasn't being judgmental or rude. You asked for advice, and she gave some. Good advice. You don't have to take it on board, but it wasn't very nice to speak to her like that and criticize her parenting style, especially when it works for her and isn't violent or abusive.


----------



## JASMAK

Once you take her things away, there really isn't any point in her doing her chores, since those things are now gone. Why not make her earn her items instead. If she wants her phone tomorrow, she needs to do the dishes today. Then there is no arguing, and it's her choice. You can have an item she can earn for each chore...then it's up to her. I personally, don't agree with using food as a reward, or punishment. There are some awesome parenting books out there for teens, too. As far as sports, my kids are allowed to choose, but have to be in something, and I don't see anything wrong with that. School must come before all chores/activites in our house though.


----------



## Sam Pearson

ablacketer said:


> (I wold love to see what you suggest that a 13 month old baby should do). .

Since you've asked I'll tell you what we did with out little ones but I am quickly learning to stick to the natural parenting threads on this forum where my words are welcomed and keep well away from the rest.

Personally, I like to start them young...around walking stage or as soon as they are capable...when they are keen and it's fun for them. People are always asking me how I get my kids to do so much housework (which is why I bothered to respond to your OP) and I put it down partly to the early start. Natually, at that age they need supervision and help but I always allow them to contribute to the best of their ability. To a toddler doing simple tasks is engaging and satisfying. Sometimes they got bored and ditched a chore midway, sometimes they made more mess than when they started, so in that way their help wasn't always that helpful...but they have to start somewhere and in their mind they were helping which is the mindset we are trying to encourage.

My young toddlers fed the dogs and cats. I'd serve it but the baby would put the bowls in the spot where the pets eat and fill up their water bowls using a sports bottle. 

They would help put their clothes in their drawers.

They never got tired of passing pegs to me when hanging out the laundry.

They helped make the beds by passing pillows.

They helped put their toys in the toy basket.

I'd give them shopping bags to carry with just one or two light items so they felt useful.

A bigger person would take them to the letterbox and they'd fetch the mail out.

They enjoyed putting things into the bin.

They would fetch their own clean nappies.

They enjoyed throwing salt and herbs into the dinner pot and liked to stir (obviously with close supervision, usually when in a baby sling). 

They would also be generally helpful in other ways e.g. they knew by colour whose toothbrush was whose and would pass them out at teeth cleaning time. They knew Dad's work boots and would lug them to him when he was getting ready. They would bring me my reading glasses if they found them.

In our house it's expected that everybody chip in and while we never make a 1yo do anything they don't want to they always wanted to help and try to copy what we were doing and so we always helped them to achieve that. When they start doing things as a toddler by 4yo they have mastered many simple tasks and can start doing them unassisted.


----------



## Statik

You have great advice Sam! You sound like a truly wonderful mom, too.


----------



## ablacketer

Sam, your advice is great if you have done it for as long as the child remembers. that wont work here with a 14 year old who doesnt think she should do anything... she sleeps on her sheets forever till I make her go wash them. her bathroom gets nasty because she wont clean it if I dont make her, her room.... you cant even walk in it if you just let her do what she wants or feels is fair to do.


----------



## Sam Pearson

ablacketer said:


> Sam, your advice is great if you have done it for as long as the child remembers. .

I agree. At your daughter's age it would me a matter of getting her on board and negotiating with her. For me the first step would be seeing how much you can get her to agree that 1. it's nicer to have a clean environment and that is somethign she actually wants for herself 2. it's reasonable for somebody of any age to contribute and at her age she would be on par with other kids her age to be doing a great deal of her own mess and also contributing to the main household chores.

Sometimes my kids tell me they are happy to have a pig sty of a room but I counter with the fact that this is my house and it's reasonable for me to want to live in a reasonable clean/tidy environment and this goes double for their room since it's the first thing you see when you walk in the house. 

Sometimes they say "that's what doors are for, I'll keep the door closed when people visit" but I counter with the fact that they never do remember to keep the door closed and that I go in that room to help them clean, take their belonging in, to hop into bed with the youngest to help her fall to sleep and it's unreasonable to expect me to be tripping over stuff. 

I am also honest and point out that while I'm not houseproud to the point of it having to be perfect I feel ashamed if the house is so bad that I feel I have to close doors to hide mess and I think it's unreasonable, when keeping it relatively neat is totally doable, that I should have to feel ashamed. After all I don't wear clothes or act in a way that makes them ashamed and therefore it's reasonable to request that they do the same.

The other thing I remind them is that if they don't contribute enough they are basically lumping me with all of the work. This is unfair but also means I have less time and energy to do fun things with them like take them to the pool or movies.

It's the same when they don't turn lights off or otherwise waste money, I point out how this affects them in that we have less money to do fun things like movies and means less presents at birthdays etc.

They always do better when I help them a bit even if it's just pointing out strategies. They don't need me to actually do it but they do appreciate me being around and keeping them on track. I might say designate an area to be cleaned e.g. do everything from the bed to the door, then have a rest, then do everything on top of the drawers, then have a rest etc. and that way I am breaking it down into smaller zones. Sometimes a whole room can seem too big to tackle.

Also, when my kids are getting used to a new job or becoming acquainted with an old job they have let lapse I don't expect too much at once. I noticed recently my kids had started leaving their dirty dishes in the loungeroom and my eldest has stopped washing up at all - partly my fault for doing it at times she isn't home. So I started working on that. Only once they got in the habit of bringing the dishes back to the kitchen did I start to work on them rinsing and stacking them. They are currently doing this so the next step is taking turns with my eldest in washing up. OH works away but he takes turns, too, when home.

I find if I take turns with them that works better than expecting one child to fully be responsible for an entire job. E.g. my 8yo and I take turns cleaning the bathroom, my almost 12yo and I are meant to take turns washing up (and we are working towards that happening again). 

My girls love music and cranking the radio loud really helps them to feel like it's not such a drag to clean. 

I'll also allocate a legnth of time to clean before a break e.g. I might say "see how much you can get done in 10 minutes then lets have a hot chocolate" and that seems less oppresive to them than "clean the entire room". Kids get overwhelmed easily and then tend to give up if the job seems insurmountable.

I have found that having less stuff helps immensely so we periodically have a chuck out of clothes and toys. Of course they only set about bringing more items in to the house but this is another way I sell them on chucking stuff out. If they sort through and throw out the stuff that they no longer wear that makes room for new clothes something they are always keen on. 

Sometimes rather than a full clean out I'll allocate a number of things to be tossed out e.g. I'll say let's all find 23 items we can throw away or give away and I do this, too.

Another thing I do to help them clear the house of their mess, especially handy if visitors are due, is have a basket for each of them. When their things have spread about the house too much, and we homeschool so this is often, rather than get them to immediately put everything away as a first step I ask them to go through the house with their basket and fill it with everything that is theirs that should be in their room or school room. Once the basket is filled they have a break but later I get them to put the stuff in the basket away. In this way at least the house is neater for the visitors even if the belongings aren't fully put away.

For bringing in the laundry, which they do on theri own as I do the washing and hanging out, I have a strategy to avoid any one person having to sort. We each have a small basket allocated to eacdh family member and one for the linen. The clothes come off the line directly into each person's basket which they take to their room to put away. We don't fold and only iron on special occassions.

To be honest I probably spend almost as much time getting the kid to effectivley do their chores as it would take me to actually do it all for them but I'm not willing to go there.

For what ti's worth my eldest, who was the worst with contributing to the house, now flats with his girlfriend and he keeps a tight ship. I was nervous to visit the first time but so impressed. I asked his girlfriend if he had mopped and cleaned especially for our visit but she said he keeps on top of it all the time and he isn't leaving it all for her so while I often felt I was fighting a losing and constant battle it seems I did okay in that regard.

I hope some of the above might be helpful. I ahte to see Mums being a slave to the house while the kids bludge. I'm a Libran so fairness is important to me.

Sam


----------



## ablacketer

thank you Sam. thats so much better as it applies more directly to what Im dealing with. "fairness" and "what you want to contribute" just plain doesnt work here. 

I already have the basket per person, I only fold mine and the baby's stuff. both hubby and daughter are expected to bring in their wash and sort it into the proper bins for washing. I still have to push to get the baskets to the room (both hubby and daughter try to live out of the basket and my laundry is actually a hallway to our den). 

i will try some of the other ideas you shared.


----------



## TattiesMum

I've raised 3 teens to adulthood ... all 3 are responsible, employed, self supporting and decent citizens and I think Sam's advice is spot on :flower:

14 is a difficult age ... she's not lazy or spoiled - she's just driven by hormones, confused a lot of the time and striving to find her feet in an adult world and find some independence.

Yes - it's challenging as a parent - and frustrating and awful sometimes ... but they have to go through this in order to come out the other side - and just as you couldn't force a toddler through the terrible twos and threes, you can't fast forward a teenager through the hormones :winkwink:

So first off I would try making her allowance dependent on the jobs she completes rather than punishing - carrot instead of stick (stick just makes teens even more resentful). 

I did still use punishments, but they were reserved for more serious transgressions... for chores payment not only works best but it also teaches them that money only comes in direct exchange for time/labour.

Personally I wouldn't worry about her not going out ... every child is different and she may just not enjoy socialising (or maybe is being bullied or feels like the odd one out - teenage girls can be positively foul to each other :( ? ) I would never have forced my teens to take part in a sport or social event (apart from family ones lol) ... that, to me, is controlling them too much.


----------



## Sam Pearson

You're welcome :o)



ablacketer said:


> (both hubby and daughter try to live out of the basket and my laundry is actually a hallway to our den).

Umm, I'm frequently guilty of that myself. I'm doing it right now but at least the washing basked is next to my bed not in a thoroughfare. While it's true that if you wait long enough you wear everything in the basket and avoid having to put anything away :o), I really should rethink what I am modelling here. Thanks for the reminder.

We stopped doing chores for money because after paypday they were slack for a few days until they started to look to the next week's pocket money. So we give them the money without conditions and it's just their conscious prodding them to contribute. While not perfect it seems to be working better for us.

However, the pocket (and birthday and tooth fairy) money does serve my purposes in that my middle two who get pocket money are too young to get to the store alone so I will ask them to pick up their mess before taking them to the shop where they can spend their money.


----------



## judge12

I am 22 years old but can remember being a teenager at home and I can tell you how your daughter is acting is very normal! My parents have 4 kids (including me) they tried to make us do housework and we did sometimes wash dishes and tidy our rooms but we did not do much and it did build resentment on their part on how we acted.

I moved out of home and am in my own flat, am I still lazy? no way, I clean my flat and keep it nice and clean. I followed the example of my mum, dad and how they kept a clean house. It is always different when it's your own house.

With my child, I try get her do some housework from an early age and maybe that make her more helpful around the house but once they hit those teen years...nightmare but she won't always be like that!


----------



## angiepie

Sam Pearson said:


> ablacketer said:
> 
> 
> she now has 2 responsibilites.<SNIP>she is supposed to potty our two boxers, water and feed them and do the dishes.
> 
> I wonder did your daughter ask to have the dogs? And did she agree to help care for them at the time they were acquired? When she is an adult and independent and if she chooses to get pets she will be responsible for them entirely but in this situation I think it's unreasonable to demand that she care for them.
> 
> We have 5 pets. One cat and one dog are my responsibility because I was the one who made the decision to bring them in to our home. So while we all care for them somewhat I am ultimately responsible for their health and wellbeing and cleaning up after their vomit and poo. My youngest daughter asked for a cat for her 4th birthday - she cares for that cat entirely aside from paying the expense and OH and I will always give the cat a tablet if needed because that's a two person job and really hard. My two girls also have a mice each that they asked for and paid for and they are entirely responsible for those animals. I will remind them if needed to clean out the cage or check their food but I don't do it for them.
> 
> Did your daughter agree to take on the washing up and cleaning the kitchen as her sole responsibility? If not again I feel it's unreasonable to make it her job and hers alone. You all make mess in the kitchen so what I feel is reasonable, unless one famliy member puts their hand up for that job, is that you take turns.
> 
> My kids are expected to contribute their fair share. That means we all spend the same amount of time cleaning although naturally the younger ones will take more time to do jobs and can't do all jobs yet. They know that I am not a housewife, I don't like housework. When they don't pull their weight we never punish them but we talk about why they aren't helping out and what we can do to support them do more - maybe change the jobs they are to do or the times they are to do them or perhaps we might decide to do a job together e.g. cleaning the bathroom was overwhelming my youngest so now we do that together and in return she helps me sort out my workspace. She finds it hard to change her sheets so I help her and in return she helps me change my sheets on the big bed. We try to work out what jobs they can happily do that add up to their fair share rather than allocate jobs for them. I persnoally hate doing floors so my OH does them but he never cleans out the fridge so I do that myself.
> 
> I point out to our kids that we are a bunch of people living together and it's not fair for any one person to do more than their share. I also point out that I am doing many jobs they don't like and that in return all I ask is that they do their fair share of work. They agree this is fair. They also agree that they want the house to be fairly clean and tidy, not perfect but to a standard that we can all function in.
> 
> When they let something that they agree to take on lapses I say, "okay, I can see you are struggling to get that chore done so I will do that for you" then I ask them what they would like to do instead. If they say "nothing" then we get back to the discussion about being fair and respecting every family member and not expecting any one person to be a slave for the rest.
> 
> My kids do a lot. Almost as much as me. But I never make them do it and I never choose what they do (aside form their own mess which is their own responsibility).
> 
> One day my 9yo announced that she was over housework and was going on strike. I said "okay, but if you choose to do that it means the rest of us will have to do your share of housework for you which won't be fair." She stopped doing anything around the house. Her siblings were naturally not impressed that they had to pick up the slack. I explained to them that for whatever reason, their sister was finding it hard to contribute and that we would simply do her jobs for her until she could contribute again and that I was certain she would pitch in again given time. I explained that if, for whatever reason, they felt they couldn't contribute, we would do the same for them. They still complained. I explained that if they didn't help me do their sister's share they would be leaving me to do all the housework on my own. So they agreed to share the load without her help. We didn't hassle her or punish her. We carried on happily doing the house. She had to lift her feet while we swept, she saw us doing the washing up together, laughing and enjoying the togetherness, she saw me thank her siblings for doing jobs and compliment them on doing them well. After a whole week of watching us work around her she quietly started to chip in and hasn't stopped contributing since (she is almost 12yo now). Actually, she is my most helpful chlid and does the biggest share of work. If we had fought with her and tried to bully her into doing jobs we might still be having problems over it now. At the end of the day all we lost was a week of her help. No biggie but she learned that she actually does want to help and while it was great not having to do chores it didn't feel great being the one not contributing.
> 
> 
> 
> ablacketer said:
> 
> 
> she forgets to feed them, even though I have told her to feed them at 4pm every day.Click to expand...
> 
> When my dd doesn't feed her cat I don't feed it but casually say "Bean is hungry" and leave it at that. If she still doesn't do it I'll say "Poor Bean must be really hungry now" but I don't feed her cat for her. Naturally, because she loves her cat, she will eventually feed her. Do you think your dd would feed the dogs if you did that? Just not fed them and let her see that without her helping them get to food they are left hungry? Would she be that insentive to not feed the dogs when you remind her and point out they are hungry? I don't think many kids, knowing nobody else will feed them, would leave an animal hungry. If ever my kids can't feed their pets for some reason, say a sleep over, they ask me if I will do it and of course I do.
> 
> 
> 
> ablacketer said:
> 
> 
> and thats another thing. we had to MAKE her try out for dance team last year <SNIP>(We MADE her choose a physical activity, she chose gymnastics <S I cant get her to do ANY thing else.Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you have to force her to do these things? I have one naturally sedintary child. When we are standing she is sitting, when we sit to watch tv she lies down. She loves to sleep in and the hammock is often where I'll find her. But I realise that forcing her to do things would take all the enjoyment out of it and she would be fighting me to avoid doing those things. I"m not interested in creating a power struggle. So instead I try to find things she wants to do. It's hard e.g. we got her a bike which she never rides.
> 
> What I have worked out is that she loves to socialise best of all. When she was not doing any sport or dance in an attempt to get her moving I invited her to walk the dog with me but she would rather stay at home and watch tv. So I got all the other kids and their neighbourhood friends to all get together on an afternoon dog walk That made walking the dog a social event and suddenly she was keen to come along.
> 
> We encourage her to try things but don't force her or make her continue if she's not having fun. After all if I take a dance class that I don't enjoy I don't make myself keep going. We got a Wii and so long as I do it with her she loves to join in so it's great for both of us. I feel that if I force her to do physical stuff it will put her off even more but if I can show her how she can have fun that will be the most positive thing. We cold punish her but that would only affect our relationship and then I'd have less chance of her wanting to do physical things with me becasue she will be cross with me and not wanting to share activities.
> 
> My kids do get an allowance but that is independent of any jobs or activities. We don't punish them but try to work with them. When we are at a loss as to how to help them we talk to them about that and ask them what ideas they have. Same when they are bickering and I can't sort it out I sit them down and help them work out their own strategies or I ask them what they think I could do that will help the situation. When kids are involved in the solutin they are usually more willing to stick to the agreement.Click to expand...

I have to 100% agree with everything Sam says. What great advice. Perhaps a gentle approach will help you to succeed in getting through to her. :) I speak from experience [when I was 14] when I say nagging/punishment is only so effective. In fact, for me, it was completely ineffective. So maybe these suggestions will work. I also like Jasmak's suggestion.

To Sam- sounds like your family live in such peace! You seem like a great, in-tune mother.


----------



## MommaAlexis

Maybe instead of expecting her to feed the dogs, just let her know her getting her own pet is dependant on how well she takes care of the house pets (which I'm sure she knows) and leave it to her to decide how bad she wants a pet. And still assign two chores but give her the choice as to which they are. To be honest, if someone pushes me to do something, even if it's something I want to do, I don't want to do it anymore. So if you write down a list of chores and she can choose two a week, depending on her mood, and write down the dog's schedules if she doesn't know them, she can have feeding them as an option. She knows she has to step up to the house pet responsibilties to get her own, but you shouldn't have to force her to be a good pet owner. Either she'll learn or she doesn't get a pet. As long as she lets you know that she'll be feeding them instead. I moved out of my parents house at fifteen, so have a little bit of a different view then most my age!


----------



## ClairHawkins

I agree with sam, I have six children three of them are teenagers what works for us is family meetings. I can't make them do anything they don't want to do but perhaps a disscusion on how frustrated you are might help. Perhaps you could help her clean her room have a girly chat??? My daughter loves loud music whilst cleaning so we have a dance too I have always found that making an effort to keep that comunication going helps all of us. I think it is in all of our nature to want to please others its just finding what works for both of you! Good luck x


----------



## almostXmagic

this kind of follows along with what he are studying in my child guidance class. when punishing a child you want to make sure the punishment goes hand in hand with the "crime". if she is neglecting doing the dishes then something along the line of "if you dont do the dishes then dont expect to have dishes to eat off of as they will stay dirty until you wash them." if she doesnt let the dogs out and they potty in the house then she is responsible for cleaning it up. another thing that could really help is sit down with her and let her be involved in picking her chores and/or the punishment for not following through. ask her what she thinks her punishment should be if she does not follow through on the chores, discuss it as a family and come to an agreement. if she feels like she has a say and is being heard then she will be more likely to comply. (im sorry if this doesnt make sense, its very late :lol:)


----------



## Sam Pearson

The problem with punishments is that they just don't work. 

Alfie Kohn talks a lot about this in his book Punished by Rewards and you can read a summary here: https://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/pdf/Punished by Rewards.pdf

Our children never receive punishments and they aren't running amok...the opposite actually. They rarely make the same mistake twice and when we negotiate things like housework they almost always happily stick to the agreement. Aside from the occassional bickering over silly things like whose turn it is in the front seat of the car or who had the longer turn on the computer they get along with each other. They get along with all of their friends. They are quite outspoken but they aren't disrespectful.

It's just not necessary to punish children in order to get good behaviour out of them and there's a lot of negatives that happen when we punish kids. Mainly that they learn not to do negative things in order to avoid punishment rather than through developing a healthy social attitude where the drive to do the right thing occurs internally not through a disire to achieve a reward or avoid punishment.

I find communication to be the key to our household runnings smoothly and punishing my kids interferes with open communication.

I've been told so many times by parents that they must punish their kids or they misbehave and don't listen to them but what I notice is that their kids still misbehave and re disrepsectful towards their parents so clearly the punishment system isn't working and as it's so draining and unpleasant for everybody it inhibits open communication.


----------

