# totally stuck athow to help dd



## Bex84

My dd is 4 and started school in September. She is under speech and language theropist and speech has been effected by confidence. She gets very shy and anxious. She can make eye contact but when feeling shy looks to side made worse as she has lazy eye which she is self conscience of. Teachers want to refer her and sent a form him for me to sign which is full of rubbish including not doing imaginary play, she does this all time at home and everyone comments on her imagination and she did it at nursery which is in learning journey and done in front of speech and language theropist. The biggest thing they have done has been to tell other children to tell her to stop (such as singing or talking so annoying them) this came out when I spoke to teacher about a child telling my daughter to shut up and she was making noise in his ear when all she was doing was talking and singing to myself and ds, I was told they told them to this, we are trying to encourage dd to talk but they are setting this back, she I losing confidence. I suspect she I dyslexic as I am and the school is ignoring me when I say she's anxious, the teacher was rude this morning as she said she doesn't care what she I like at home or another setting. I requested meeting with senco and teacher before sign form so can put my point across, I requested this start of last week but been told have to wait till next term and they will tack on to end of iep meeting for speech. I'm just at a loss, they have obviosly not got to know my daughter, I have no problem with referal as long as information is correct but is not


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## tommyg

Bex we have chatted before. It sounds to me the teacher is getting the wrong end of the stick and is suspecting autism and then looking for signs off it (lack of imaginary play)

I can understand it being annoying is a child is gibbering / singing to themselves in a classroom situation. Its also hard on the teacher to say that is ok when its not ok to chat to other kids iykwim.

I agree speaking with the teacher and senco makes sense before signing the form. But even if you do sign the ed pys. is likely to rule out autism fairly quickly. 

They might also see what the teacher can do (or not do) to help. I certainly would be upset at children being given permission to be down right rude to her. The teacher should move her away from the others if she is being annoying. 

Hugs


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## Bex84

Thankyou for replying.Unfortunately its not in classroom situation she's been told this by other children, this is when playing and incidents I've seen have been when lining up in morning. Teacher says she does not think autism but that's what paper work looks like angling at. They put my dd on red other day due to she was upset couldent find glove and went back to find it at lunch time. My dd keeps saying I want to be good. She is well behaved at home, feels confident here, makes eye contact and does imaginary play all the time but school dont see that and as she sticks a smile on face thinks she isn't anxious. Even at school behaviour is normal 4 year old behaviour. They have decided on this referal in a week. Nothing bought up before. A week where daughter had been kept up by my son as he was ill and on steroids so wasn't concentrating as well plus not 100% herself. I knew social side she was struggling with due to being shy and bought it up in senco meeting but apparently there way is encouraging children to pick at my daughter. How they are even doing referal i don't know as they haven't got enough evidence and I have helped with doing referals in past. I was in tears today as feel like they realpy dont like the bother of my beautiful little girl and don't want to support her. Think another parent had point when they said that that school is fantastic if your child doesn't struggle. I rang speech therapist and they are going to observe next term as agree with me and spoke to optomotist who agreed with me about reason for daughter not liking eye contact when nervous (partly due to tiering when her eye finds difficult to focus, partly due to anxiety as shy after comments from others about her eye) the play stuff I am just shocked as other professionals have gone down on record saying how good she I at it, I could record any time at home and yet apparently doesn't matter


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## Bex84

Sorry just gave huge reply didn't I, can you tell I'm upset


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## tommyg

Hugs, I don't think the school are handling it well do they know she has been disturbed at night by baby?

Totally wrong that the teacher has allowed others to pick on her - complain to head I think


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## Bex84

Yes they knew as told them, they just seem to have handling unproffesionally and when I was teacher I defenetly would have listened to a parents view. When told my sister and dad they were completely shocked as she is such an imaginanation and has good eye contact with them and nephew. Going to film her in holidays and take to meeting and insist I will only sign referal if done properly together. Poor dd had cough all last week and absolutely exhausted as well but hey as usual they took no notice. Thankyou for all your support. She came out crying which is always a good start to evening poor love. Put it this way if she does have something wrong it wont bother us we will just support her


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## tommyg

Oh Bex I want to hug you and DD. 
There is a bit of me thinks getting the referal might be the right thing to do. The teacher might not like what she is told - nothing wrong with the kid but ruining her confidence and allowing others to pick on her isn't on - the teacher might listen to Ed Psy more than you.
Preschool were angling at ADHD for DS the Ed Psy basically said No he just needs more encouragement and people to notice the good things. Yes he is a chancer and always trying his luck to see what he can get away with. But watching out the corner of his eye at who is watching him - never acting impulsively.
She gave a few ideas on how to help, preschool poo pooed them, and not much has changed. However he is very low on her priority list after i gibbered to her like a friend while DS played away happliy for the best part of 2 hours.
But I no longer bother when he hasn't been listening at preschool. I'm sure school will be different.


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## Bex84

Thankyou, hope all goes well with your son, its amazing how they can ignore other professionals (I know when I taught I made sure I listened) speech and language will go in next term at my request. I'm happy to do referal as long as our views also put on. Its just difficult as she's in reception so she is not getting best start


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## Quartz

I would talk to the headteacher - at the moment you and the school seem to be working against each other and I think that is the best place to start with working together and getting the referral done properly.

With the imaginative play I think this could very well be something that they believe to be true - she may well not do it at school (although capable at home) and that fact is something that needs to be documented I think in order to help her. The teacher is wrong though about differences in setting not mattering I think its a vital point in getting your daughter the correct help.

The encouraging children to get her to shut up is appalling and not on at all I would definitely demand to speak to the headmistress.


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## Bex84

Thankyou, I've said to dh will go to meeting and if not resolved then speek to head teacher. Stupid thing is I want to work with school and usually back them up 100% and have been thanked for it. She may not do imaginary play there as trying to play with others but all this seems to be cobbled together in week and have seen in learning journey where teacher says she has and obviosly nursery saying it was one of things best at. All I've said to them is I would rather have a meeting to discuss and then sign and make sure all correct stuff sent. I feel like I try back them up with most stuff but they don't listen to me. I did same job as teacher, working with reception and the way they have gone about it is weird, no concerns have been bought up until last week including at parents evening and speech and language meetings. The senco hasn't even observed


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## tommyg

Bex I didn't realise you were a teacher yourself. I do think the way they are going about things isn't right. Do you think the teacher is young and inexperienced?

I wonder if DD is displaying other behavioural issues due to everything that is going on. The lazy eye, and speech issues resulting in lack of confidence, possibly struggling to pick things up as quickly as others (dyslexia), a week of poor sleep, which will lower her tolerance to deal with anything. Then throw into the mix permission for class mates to be rude and bully her why any teacher has given that permission is completely beyond me. 

I really feel so sorry for the poor wee girl she seems to be getting a rough time. 

I think you are doing the right thing asking for a meeting, tbh I think I would ask that the head is included within the meeting. You need to get to the bottom of why others are being allowed to be rude to her. 
And getting into trouble for going looking for a glove is just wrong. She is 4 FFS, in other countries she wouldn't even be in school. 

When is the meeting meant to take place?


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## Bex84

Start of January. The teacher is fairly young but on senior leadership team, she seems to lack experience of sen, and senco only in Friday. I think its fairly likely she is dyslexic but they wont test till 6. The teacher doesn't seem to get children who are shy. Thanks so much for replying. I don't think any other behavoral stuff just the usual 4 year old stuff of occasionally looking around when sitting on carpet and stuff like that


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## Bex84

She's not particularly behind either which makes it odd. She I pretty average for age


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## Quartz

Bex84 said:


> Start of January. The teacher is fairly young but on senior leadership team, she seems to lack experience of sen, and senco only in Friday. I think its fairly likely she is dyslexic but they wont test till 6. The teacher doesn't seem to get children who are shy. Thanks so much for replying. I don't think any other behavoral stuff just the usual 4 year old stuff of occasionally looking around when sitting on carpet and stuff like that

Is she new to the senior leadership team -it sounds like she is trying to make a case study for your daughter to further her own career.

She definitely needs to get SENCO in though and follow the proper procedure I would make it clear to the headmistress that you want to work with the school but follow the right procedure.

Is it a school who wants every child to fit into a particular box? Are there any other schools nearby it might not be the right learning environment


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## Bex84

There is alot of wonderful things about school like forest school, gardening, lots of outdoor learning which lo loves and upto now seemed ok helping lo but in last two week teacher has a bee in her bonnet. Its a village school, there is others but bit of a trek plus think dd would get very stressed starting again as starting to have friends. Think it would be last resort to move. Dont think she is particularly new but do think she is trying to make case study and her and the senco are annoyed at the speech and language team so think they are trying to make a point though not speech and language team fault they had budget cut and not enough theropists


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## tommyg

Could DD be having to work twice as hard to keep pace with the others?

I'm sure you know working memory and concentration can be part of the underlying causes of dyslexia. 

When is the meeting with school, any chance you could both go providing back up for each other.

I don't know that I would look at moving school just yet. I'm a believer that there's good / bad teachers in every school moving now might sort this issue but you can't move school every time she runs into an issue.


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## tommyg

How to help her keep playing games with her try to spoil her with your time. And keep reassuring her she is great.


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## Bex84

She is a sweetheart so we do lots of positive at home. She does try ever so hard. They had a list of words to learn and she struggled but she worked so so hard. The teacher seemed suprised when I suggested she might be dyslexic despite her having classic symptoms and I have it. DD I off today with sick bug so she has a break from I all today. Dh is going to come to meeting with me and sister will look after dd and ds so they can play with cousin and dh will read them the riot act as he is teacher to so knows they are going about wrong way


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## tommyg

I'm glad DH is able to go to the meeting with you. And even better that the school have met their match in the form of 2 teachers who know the system and the rights & wrongs of their actions. 

How is DD tonight, is she feeling any better?


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## Bex84

Have a happy girl tonight despite ill as she got day at home :-\ she seems ok about back to school tomorow. She needed the brake. At least at break time I know one of the older girls is protective of her. The girls mum came over to me other day saying about her daughter always played with lo at break, think she must be yr 2 but she is very sweet girl and plays lots of games with dd, dd seems to be drawn to older ones, even friends in her class are neerly a year older. This seems to protect her a bit from nastiness


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## tommyg

How is she doing now?


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## Bex84

Still feeling unwell. She had a play date with another child yesterday and and one on friday with same girl. She has fallen out with friend apparently as they were playing chase and other girl said stop and pushed her over as she didn't stop strait away (the game had been decided before so dd wasn't randomly chasing) she is currently counting days to Christmas holidays


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## Bex84

Thanks for asking


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## Bex84

Yay had a good day, really hope it carries on. Fingers crossed


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## tommyg

Good to hear she has had a good day. I'm hoping the other kids have stopped being nasty to her.


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## noon_child

I would not be happy with this school at all. Reception children can sing and chat during play time and other children shoul NOT be saying shut up - if they are annoyed they can move away, or maybe ask if she can use a quieter indoor voice (at most) - it's play time for goodness sake! My daughter is also shy but the school know this and they've really helped her develop and she has come out of her shell so much due to them taking the time to get to know every child.

was this school your first choice? Did you get a clear impression of what the school ethos was and what their main school rules are?

I think S&L therapy going in to schoolis a great idea.

Btw I have times even now as an adult where I can't make eye contact and it was worse as a child. I am not autistic or aspergers but I DO have a lot of anxiety. For some people it can be hard to spot the difference.
However even if she was autistic it wouldn't be recommended to tell her to shut-up when singing, so that's pretty unacceptable in my view.

Ps I wouldn't worry about the dyslexia just now. At this age so many children have the classic symptoms and most reading and writing schemes adopted by reception classes are multi sensory (which is the best approach for dyslexia anyway and helps all children that age). As she gets older you'll be able to tell if her symptoms persist or follow the more usual pattern (my daughter currently confuses b and d, u and n, writes backwards sometimes and has just started inserting random capitals. She could be dyslexic like her dad but these are also the normal stages of reading and writing, so for now I'm just watching and waiting).


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## Bex84

I'm thinking she may be dyslexic more due to other things which was very much like myself but to be honest if she is its no bother. The school ethos is usually good and for most part is good school but its sen is not fantastic. I'm hoping meeting may help. I hate eye contact to so can understand where dd coming from. Her teacher can be lovely but seems very inexperienced with children who have any difficulties and found out a few parents had issues. Will be complaining above if not impressed by meeting. DD has made a friend and seems happier and think even teacher realised has been unfair. Unfortunately from working in schools I know this is not unusual


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## Bex84

Had meeting, they backed down on some stuff and just said wanted to re refer for speech and language which I fine. Speech is ok at home but at school I know is worse due to anxiety. I suggested a few things they could do which seemed to shock them, such as visual time table for showing structure of day which is used alot in reception classes anyway and did mention doing group work where they took her and a few children to help her with social but they reconed they had not enough staff. They have 2 adults in classroom so they could take a group outside in reception garden so not sure why they cant model social stuff with her


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## tommyg

How are things going?
Have they made any changes since the meeting? Was the head aware of her being told to"shut up"?


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## Bex84

They brushed it off a bit, this meeting was with senco and teacher. Was interesting, I spoke to one of other mums today. Our little girls have become friends and her little girl is also shy. I was told it was as other children frustrated which I think is an awful excuse as my DD should not be descriminated against as she has special needs and they should teach children acceptence. The other mum told me other children were doing same to her dd and her dd has no speech problems. They have now ordered stuff for dd for helping such as pink over lay as she can read better off pink background which we found out not them. Dd seems happy at moment as has her friend now


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## jensonsmummy

No advise but hope your little girl is doing well and the school get their act together. My son is. 3.5 and goes to nursery. He has speech and language delay and also suspected development delay and suspected adhd. His nursery weren't great at very start as I think they thought I was making excuses for him at the very start. They however are excellent now, the head comes in and does one to one with him at points of the day that he finds difficult such as during story time. I'm dreading him having to go to primary school but thankfully he has another nursery year the way his birthday falls


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## Bex84

Thanks, hopefully all will get sorted


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