# People Are So Rude When I Tell Them I Enjoy Being a SAHM



## Wobbles

I'm a full time SAHM and have been for years. It annoys me no end that I'm supposed to be miserable about that. Being a SAHM is actually pretty rad indeed.

Click HERE!


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## george83

I'm totally jealous that you're a sahm - i would love to be! I honestly think times need to change so that every family has the opportunity for one parent to be able to stay at home if they want to


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## loeylo

Being a SAHM isn't really an option for us, what does annoy me is that often SAHM's have an attitude which implies that they are somehow better parents because they spend more time with their children (for example, calling themselves "full time mums" - do I quit being a mum during the day when I'm at work? All mums are full time mums!) 

Parents (regardless of gender) should do what works best for their families. I hate that it is assumed that a woman should give up her career (and therefore part of her identity) to start a family, whereas a man can continue his life as usual. 

I'm all for women choosing to stay at home (providing they don't expect the government to pay them to do so) BUT I also think that equal maternity benefits should be offered to dads, should that be what works for the family. Similarly, support should be offered to help mums return to work if they choose to go down that route.


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## happynewmom1

loeylo said:


> Being a SAHM isn't really an option for us, what does annoy me is that often SAHM's have an attitude which implies that they are somehow better parents because they spend more time with their children (for example, calling themselves "full time mums" - do I quit being a mum during the day when I'm at work? All mums are full time mums!)
> 
> Parents (regardless of gender) should do what works best for their families. I hate that it is assumed that a woman should give up her career (and therefore part of her identity) to start a family, whereas a man can continue his life as usual.
> 
> I'm all for women choosing to stay at home (providing they don't expect the government to pay them to do so) BUT I also think that equal maternity benefits should be offered to dads, should that be what works for the family. Similarly, support should be offered to help mums return to work if they choose to go down that route.

You seem to be stuck on sahm's being the only ones with that kind of mentality. Thing is it goes both ways. Working moms have quite the uppity attitude as well as if they do more are more important to the society since they also work outside the home. Of course you are always a mom but you don't watch her full time which is all that is implied by that. If you say you have a full or part time job outside of the home, what are you implying? How much you work outside the home and that is all that's meant by that. Yes.. My job is being at home with the kids and raising them to be responsible and caring people to go out into the world. I do not go to a paying job so of course I say I'm a full time mom. It's what i am. I wouldn't go and say that makes me a part time wife because my husband goes to work and I don't see him all hours but I absolutely don't see him full time. 

It's ridiculous really. All moms should just accept each other for who they are and how they choose to so things in their family. It's totally fine for you to work.. And it's fine for me to stay home but if you don't want an attitude from moms who stay at home, then don't give an attitude to them. Respect goes both ways.


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## catty

Some people may write they are a full time mum because they think well what else am i? If there not working they are at home full time.
I am sure there not doing it to piss working mothers off but more to give them a reason with what they do in their day. 
Iv had many people say to me, 'Id love to be a SAHM what do you do all day' and i either want to punch them in the face or laugh at them! 
Its not a bloody holiday. Your always writing about this Loeylo and i often wonder that maybe the people you come across are just assholes and not the norm


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## ClaireS74

If you can and you want to, why not?


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## loeylo

happynewmom1 said:


> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> Being a SAHM isn't really an option for us, what does annoy me is that often SAHM's have an attitude which implies that they are somehow better parents because they spend more time with their children (for example, calling themselves "full time mums" - do I quit being a mum during the day when I'm at work? All mums are full time mums!)
> 
> Parents (regardless of gender) should do what works best for their families. I hate that it is assumed that a woman should give up her career (and therefore part of her identity) to start a family, whereas a man can continue his life as usual.
> 
> I'm all for women choosing to stay at home (providing they don't expect the government to pay them to do so) BUT I also think that equal maternity benefits should be offered to dads, should that be what works for the family. Similarly, support should be offered to help mums return to work if they choose to go down that route.
> 
> You seem to be stuck on sahm's being the only ones with that kind of mentality. Thing is it goes both ways. Working moms have quite the uppity attitude as well as if they do more are more important to the society since they also work outside the home. Of course you are always a mom but you don't watch her full time which is all that is implied by that. If you say you have a full or part time job outside of the home, what are you implying? How much you work outside the home and that is all that's meant by that. Yes.. My job is being at home with the kids and raising them to be responsible and caring people to go out into the world. I do not go to a paying job so of course I say I'm a full time mom. It's what i am. I wouldn't go and say that makes me a part time wife because my husband goes to work and I don't see him all hours but I absolutely don't see him full time.
> 
> It's ridiculous really. All moms should just accept each other for who they are and how they choose to so things in their family. It's totally fine for you to work.. And it's fine for me to stay home but if you don't want an attitude from moms who stay at home, then don't give an attitude to them. Respect goes both ways.Click to expand...

I might not "watch" her full time, but I still need to do all the same duties as a stay-at-home mum, but compressed into less hours. My partner and I (we both work so parenting is split 50/50) so we need to get her bathed, dressed, fed and out the door by 7:30 every morning, plus do all the same cooking and cleaning and playing and teaching her that SAHMs do, but compressed into evenings rather than having all day to do it. I'm still a full time mum. I'm also a full time worker. Yes, you are a full time mum, but so are we all. 

I'm not giving any sort of attitude. I'm happy being a working mum, I have strong reasons why I do it and it isn't just financial (I want my daughter to know that you can be whatever you want to be and you don't need to choose between family and career if you don't want to) - everyone is entitled to have their own opinion and everyone does what they feel is best for their family. 

For my family, two working parents is best. For others, one working is best. It isn't anyone else's place to judge as long as the kid is looked after and fed.


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## loeylo

catty said:


> Some people may write they are a full time mum because they think well what else am i? If there not working they are at home full time.
> I am sure there not doing it to piss working mothers off but more to give them a reason with what they do in their day.
> Iv had many people say to me, 'Id love to be a SAHM what do you do all day' and i either want to punch them in the face or laugh at them!
> Its not a bloody holiday. Your always writing about this Loeylo and i often wonder that maybe the people you come across are just assholes and not the norm

I just feel passionate about it, from a feminist point of view. Personally I term it a SAHM rather than a full time mum. I understand why people use it, but it annoys me (similar to SAHMs being annoyed by people asking what they do all day I guess) - personally when I was on maternity leave I struggled to fill my day but I do only have the one kid so I understand that having more kids might be different! I also don't have many mum friends who don't work so all my friends were at work while I was at home.


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## Gypsy99

It's hard either way and talking about myself I've felt guilty from every angle. 

The stay at home mum part for me was important and I was lucky to do it for a year with my first. I had to go back to work part time because useless ex-husband decided he didn't need to work to support his family. I felt guilty because I didn't feel like I contributed enough. 
Then with my son I was a single mum for 6 months and it was horribly stressful. I bit the bullet and worked part time and then full time and hated that I was leaving them. 

My point is we do what we have to do. Every parent has the reasons for what they are doing. The value of spending time with your children at a young age. Some people are lucky to do that but some people are lucky to be able to work if they need the break from parenthood. 

I need adult interaction, but at the same time I hate that I missed my children grow up. Just make the time when you are around them to make memories.


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## catty

Yes i agree that one child is completely different to multiple children. Im not trying to cause a debate but how can you do the same as a sahm when your at work during the day? 
Im saying this as a working mother btw im just on maternity leave at the moment.


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## loeylo

catty said:


> Yes i agree that one child is completely different to multiple children. Im not trying to cause a debate but how can you do the same as a sahm when your at work during the day?
> Im saying this as a working mother btw im just on maternity leave at the moment.

Nothing wrong with healthy friendly debate &#128578;

Well, I still need to get my kid up, dressed, bags packed, fed etc before I go to work. Then our families spend the day with her doing the "fun" side of looking after her (playing with her etc) and then feed her food I have prepared (she has allergies so I send food over) 
After work I still need to do all the things that SAHMs do - cook dinner, clean the house, take her to the park or swimming or soft play, pack her bags, bath her, read to her and so on.

I didn't work until she was 8 months old and then was part time until she was 11 months. I found life a million times easier before I was at work. I get really generous holidays so I still do spend more time with her than many working mums, which does allow me maybe a better work life balance than other working parents. Part of the reason I work full time is to allow my partner to purchase additional holidays through his work so we get a lot of time together as a family. As I said, it's about finding out what sacrifices you are willing to make to get a balance which works for your family.


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## catty

I say this from a jealous point of view tbi as i want to work soon but i just cant get childcare to fit. Id love to work 2 full days at work and the rest off but when i go back to work its 5 evenings so still with the kids allday then off to work for 5pm 
I do think that when i had one child it was very different (especially when there was such a thing as naps) but now i am literally on the go all day. The mess they create is just unbelievable so i try and be out of the house majority of the day. 
Anyway i do enjoy it which i guess is what the thread is about but i am envious as i want to be able to work i just cant get childcare that would even remotely suit.


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## .Mrs.B.

Me and my husband have taken it in turns, we've each been the working parent and the stay at home parent. I worked for a year while my husband was off with the kids. I worked in an easy job close to home and I loved it. However I feel like I missed out on so much in that year I would never go back to work now. My daughter will reach nursery age come September and I've searched around to find one that will let her do just one day a week. I just hope the kids are enjoying their time with me as much as I am with them. :)

Also, in response to an earlier comment, Dads are now entitled to a year off for paternity if mum doesn't take it. I took the first 8 months off then my husband took the last 4 months.


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## happynewmom1

If it was a healthy debate, I'd be for it but I've already seen you continually debate this thing. I think since we do work full time and we don't even get paid.. Hardly even in gratitude ever then we have the right to say we are a full time mom. That's me, personally. Obviously I'm also very passionate about this as you come across as if we sit home and play all day which is not at all the case. But maybe thats a difference in how many kids one has. I'm not for a second saying you don't work with your child or do the work surrounding her. But you simply are not with her full time if you are working full time outside of the home. I have always admired working moms.. Working all day and going home to take care of their family but I don't admire the attitude that comes across in your posts. It feels every time like you are putting a sahm down. Call us what you want, I AM a full time mom.. Because I am. For 14+ hours a day working with and for my kids. I go to bed exhausted like you and wake up to more every day.. Just like you so.. Yes.. I do think I can call myself a full time mom.


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## Kiwiberry

I am a full time mom and proud of it. Take it from my husband who had to manage the kids when I was sick. It's hard WORK and going to a paying job whether you want to acknowledge it or not IS a break in comparison. I think all mom's are strong whether they stay at home or go to work. What is not cool, is when we attack each other for how we choose to parent. If this crazy world and my crazy Life has taught me anything it's this; Do not judge others for if you could only walk a day in their shoes, you would realize just how ignorant you have been towards them. Many many times in my life I have judged others only to realize my judgments were based in pure ignorance. Compassion and understanding goes a long way and makes a bigger impact on our individual lives that we sometimes never even notice.

We all do our best to provide for our children, whether at home slaving to our kids or at a desk slaving to society.


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## catty

I do feel that you make it out that all we do is play, maybe i read your post wrong but when i read them i do feel put down and like im not as worthy.
By 8.30am iv got 4 people ready and out the door, drop one at nursery at 8.30am and one at playgroup at 9.45am (3 days per week) go home, clean, breastfeed, usually some type of shop is needed a few days per week. Pick son up 11.25am pick daughter up 11.45am (have 20 mins to pick one up and run a mile up the road) get home prepare lunch and then have afternoon activities 12.30 -4.30pm
These are not usually all fun and games i normally have an appointment at least twice a month, work on my sons speech therapy which really isnt all that fun for me. We do 2× toddlers groups per week, 1x softplay/sensory group and then we have 2 afternoons we can decide which normally involve lots of walking and parks (which believe me is not always fun with 3 but i make myself or wed be stuck in) majority of these things im surrounded by childminders being paid £4ph per child and were doing the exact same things at the nursery pick ups and groups etc so i do think if they werent my children id be getting £12ph except they are my children and i then get dinner on and house tidied, pick up OH, dinner served, both of us bath and bed kids but then iv still to get clothes, bags orhainsed for the next day and everything else like you say.


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## loeylo

catty said:


> I say this from a jealous point of view tbi as i want to work soon but i just cant get childcare to fit. Id love to work 2 full days at work and the rest off but when i go back to work its 5 evenings so still with the kids allday then off to work for 5pm
> I do think that when i had one child it was very different (especially when there was such a thing as naps) but now i am literally on the go all day. The mess they create is just unbelievable so i try and be out of the house majority of the day.
> Anyway i do enjoy it which i guess is what the thread is about but i am envious as i want to be able to work i just cant get childcare that would even remotely suit.

Do you have a partner that could look after the kids in the evenings? That sucks. I did consider going part time however during the time I did work part time I found that I worked way more than the hours I was paid for and I was doing only slightly less work but getting paid far less for it. They just timetabled classes so most of the senior classes came on the days I was there to teach them, and those are the classes which I spend more time planning/marking for. I also seemed to have every single parents night on the days I worked! TBH id rather be paid for full time and work the hours, rather than be paid for 0.5 or 0.7 and then end up working only a few hours less per week. This is off topic now though!


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## loeylo

.Mrs.B. said:


> Me and my husband have taken it in turns, we've each been the working parent and the stay at home parent. I worked for a year while my husband was off with the kids. I worked in an easy job close to home and I loved it. However I feel like I missed out on so much in that year I would never go back to work now. My daughter will reach nursery age come September and I've searched around to find one that will let her do just one day a week. I just hope the kids are enjoying their time with me as much as I am with them. :)
> 
> Also, in response to an earlier comment, Dads are now entitled to a year off for paternity if mum doesn't take it. I took the first 8 months off then my husband took the last 4 months.

My daughter is only in nursery 1 day, well right now she isn't in at all but in the past she did 1 day and she will be returning 1 day. Pretty much every nursery which we considered to be "good" enough for her had spaces. Maybe we were fortunate. 

I think it does depend on the demands of your job though. In my last job(s) I can understand that it was a "break" in comparison to being at home, but now I have 30 kids instead of 1 so at home is definitely easier for me, I still don't get a coffee or a lunch break in peace at work now whereas I did in my previous jobs, however now I do get paid far more so it is definitely swings and roundabouts. Most parents in my last job felt like work was a break and weren't too keen to go home, whereas now it is different and there is so much pressure on to perform well that I can't relax, whereas at least at home we can decide to have a pyjama day and I can let standards slip for a day if need be. Again, I'm willing to do it as I actually do love my job, being a teacher is a huge part of my identity, in a way that working in a travel agent or a shop wasn't.


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## loeylo

happynewmom1 said:


> If it was a healthy debate, I'd be for it but I've already seen you continually debate this thing. I think since we do work full time and we don't even get paid.. Hardly even in gratitude ever then we have the right to say we are a full time mom. That's me, personally. Obviously I'm also very passionate about this as you come across as if we sit home and play all day which is not at all the case. But maybe thats a difference in how many kids one has. I'm not for a second saying you don't work with your child or do the work surrounding her. But you simply are not with her full time if you are working full time outside of the home. I have always admired working moms.. Working all day and going home to take care of their family but I don't admire the attitude that comes across in your posts. It feels every time like you are putting a sahm down. Call us what you want, I AM a full time mom.. Because I am. For 14+ hours a day working with and for my kids. I go to bed exhausted like you and wake up to more every day.. Just like you so.. Yes.. I do think I can call myself a full time mom.

Okay, but I am also a full time mum. That's my point. I might not be physically with her, but if you nip to the shops for an hour without your kid, do you stop being their mum? Nope. Being a mum is not just about being physically right beside your child. I'm at work to earn money for HER inheritance. I go to work to provide a future FOR HER. Is your partner a full time dad? It's the terminology which I find annoying, not the principal of being a stay at home mum. I understand that some mums are fulfilled with being a SAHM and that's great, but I'm not. Just as you wouldn't be fulfilled working full time.


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## .Mrs.B.

loeylo said:


> .Mrs.B. said:
> 
> 
> Me and my husband have taken it in turns, we've each been the working parent and the stay at home parent. I worked for a year while my husband was off with the kids. I worked in an easy job close to home and I loved it. However I feel like I missed out on so much in that year I would never go back to work now. My daughter will reach nursery age come September and I've searched around to find one that will let her do just one day a week. I just hope the kids are enjoying their time with me as much as I am with them. :)
> 
> Also, in response to an earlier comment, Dads are now entitled to a year off for paternity if mum doesn't take it. I took the first 8 months off then my husband took the last 4 months.
> 
> My daughter is only in nursery 1 day, well right now she isn't in at all but in the past she did 1 day and she will be returning 1 day. Pretty much every nursery which we considered to be "good" enough for her had spaces. Maybe we were fortunate.
> 
> I think it does depend on the demands of your job though. In my last job(s) I can understand that it was a "break" in comparison to being at home, but now I have 30 kids instead of 1 so at home is definitely easier for me, I still don't get a coffee or a lunch break in peace at work now whereas I did in my previous jobs, however now I do get paid far more so it is definitely swings and roundabouts. Most parents in my last job felt like work was a break and weren't too keen to go home, whereas now it is different and there is so much pressure on to perform well that I can't relax, whereas at least at home we can decide to have a pyjama day and I can let standards slip for a day if need be. Again, I'm willing to do it as I actually do love my job, being a teacher is a huge part of my identity, in a way that working in a travel agent or a shop wasn't.Click to expand...

I meant nursery as in the year before they start reception. All of our local ones offer the 15 hours by doing 3 hours per day Monday to Friday. I wish they didn't do it like this.
I didn't want her to miss out but going every day would limit our time for days out. I ended up finding a farm nursery that will take her for one day a week. Fingers crossed she likes it.


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## loeylo

.Mrs.B. said:


> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .Mrs.B. said:
> 
> 
> Me and my husband have taken it in turns, we've each been the working parent and the stay at home parent. I worked for a year while my husband was off with the kids. I worked in an easy job close to home and I loved it. However I feel like I missed out on so much in that year I would never go back to work now. My daughter will reach nursery age come September and I've searched around to find one that will let her do just one day a week. I just hope the kids are enjoying their time with me as much as I am with them. :)
> 
> Also, in response to an earlier comment, Dads are now entitled to a year off for paternity if mum doesn't take it. I took the first 8 months off then my husband took the last 4 months.
> 
> My daughter is only in nursery 1 day, well right now she isn't in at all but in the past she did 1 day and she will be returning 1 day. Pretty much every nursery which we considered to be "good" enough for her had spaces. Maybe we were fortunate.
> 
> I think it does depend on the demands of your job though. In my last job(s) I can understand that it was a "break" in comparison to being at home, but now I have 30 kids instead of 1 so at home is definitely easier for me, I still don't get a coffee or a lunch break in peace at work now whereas I did in my previous jobs, however now I do get paid far more so it is definitely swings and roundabouts. Most parents in my last job felt like work was a break and weren't too keen to go home, whereas now it is different and there is so much pressure on to perform well that I can't relax, whereas at least at home we can decide to have a pyjama day and I can let standards slip for a day if need be. Again, I'm willing to do it as I actually do love my job, being a teacher is a huge part of my identity, in a way that working in a travel agent or a shop wasn't.Click to expand...
> 
> I meant nursery as in the year before they start reception. All of our local ones offer the 15 hours by doing 3 hours per day Monday to Friday. I wish they didn't do it like this.
> I didn't want her to miss out but going every day would limit our time for days out. I ended up finding a farm nursery that will take her for one day a week. Fingers crossed she likes it.Click to expand...

Ah right. There's no way we could do mornings or afternoons, most nurseries near us don't start early enough for us to drop her off and get ourselves to work on time, so my partner had to change his hours on the day that she goes to nursery and work a half day to fit in drop offs and collections. Both of our mums don't drive and live in different towns (and we also live in a different town) so on the days they look after her we couldn't do drop offs or pick ups. We are probably need to do a childminder AND nursery if we want to use the free hours.


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## catty

Some private nurseries do accept the 15 hours free childcare too but from what iv heard from friends you cant just put them in 15 hours they need to be in a bit more i think. Also its only 15 hours for the school year so any school holidays that they go to nursery that wouldnt be covered.


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## .Mrs.B.

catty said:


> Some private nurseries do accept the 15 hours free childcare too but from what iv heard from friends you cant just put them in 15 hours they need to be in a bit more i think. Also its only 15 hours for the school year so any school holidays that they go to nursery that wouldnt be covered.

Yeah most nurserys seemed pretty inflexible.
I mean 3 hours a day would not work for working parents or stay at home parents, it seems silly.
Our one on the farm is an 11 hour day (7.30am to 6.30pm), year round, even in school holidays. It's fully funded with cooked breakfast, lunch and dinner.
They told me I can drop my daughter off and pick her up whenever I like between those hours so it doesn't have to be a long day. I'm pretty happy with that and I also told them she probably wouldn't be going in on school holidays and that was OK with them as well.


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## loeylo

catty said:


> Some private nurseries do accept the 15 hours free childcare too but from what iv heard from friends you cant just put them in 15 hours they need to be in a bit more i think. Also its only 15 hours for the school year so any school holidays that they go to nursery that wouldnt be covered.

The nursery my daughter is starting is private, they do accept you for the 15 hours but it is either mornings or afternoons. you can do it over 2.5 days but you need to pay the extra for them to cover lunchtime which I think is £4 per day. They don't just do term time, I did ask about that as just term time suits me with me being a teacher but we need to enrol her for the full year and still pay for holidays (they are closed between Christmas and New Year though) - it's frustrating as even working a normal 9-5 job with my partners or my commute, normal nursery hours don't suit so we need to pay £8 extra per day for extended hours. They definitely need more flexible nursery options, especially in dormitory settlements!


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## catty

.Mrs.B. said:


> catty said:
> 
> 
> Some private nurseries do accept the 15 hours free childcare too but from what iv heard from friends you cant just put them in 15 hours they need to be in a bit more i think. Also its only 15 hours for the school year so any school holidays that they go to nursery that wouldnt be covered.
> 
> Yeah most nurserys seemed pretty inflexible.
> I mean 3 hours a day would not work for working parents or stay at home parents, it seems silly.
> Our one on the farm is an 11 hour day (7.30am to 6.30pm), year round, even in school holidays. It's fully funded with cooked breakfast, lunch and dinner.
> They told me I can drop my daughter off and pick her up whenever I like between those hours so it doesn't have to be a long day. I'm pretty happy with that and I also told them she probably wouldn't be going in on school holidays and that was OK with them as well.Click to expand...

That sounds really good and nice you can pick her up earlier if you wanted too.
My son goes to school nursery 8.30am -11.30am mon-fri. I quite like the routine of it and we still manage shorter days out in the afternoons but there is 40 kids and at times i feel like iv no idea what hes been upto. No reports on what hes done i ask him and he says he cant remember so i dont 100% feel comfortable with it but around here iv never met a kid that doesnt go to school nursery so i do think hed miss out on friendships and its good for his speech as he is a bit behind with that.


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## .Mrs.B.

catty said:


> .Mrs.B. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> catty said:
> 
> 
> Some private nurseries do accept the 15 hours free childcare too but from what iv heard from friends you cant just put them in 15 hours they need to be in a bit more i think. Also its only 15 hours for the school year so any school holidays that they go to nursery that wouldnt be covered.
> 
> Yeah most nurserys seemed pretty inflexible.
> I mean 3 hours a day would not work for working parents or stay at home parents, it seems silly.
> Our one on the farm is an 11 hour day (7.30am to 6.30pm), year round, even in school holidays. It's fully funded with cooked breakfast, lunch and dinner.
> They told me I can drop my daughter off and pick her up whenever I like between those hours so it doesn't have to be a long day. I'm pretty happy with that and I also told them she probably wouldn't be going in on school holidays and that was OK with them as well.Click to expand...
> 
> That sounds really good and nice you can pick her up earlier if you wanted too.
> My son goes to school nursery 8.30am -11.30am mon-fri. I quite like the routine of it and we still manage shorter days out in the afternoons but there is 40 kids and at times i feel like iv no idea what hes been upto. No reports on what hes done i ask him and he says he cant remember so i dont 100% feel comfortable with it but around here iv never met a kid that doesnt go to school nursery so i do think hed miss out on friendships and its good for his speech as he is a bit behind with that.Click to expand...

Those are the same hours my son does. (He is 4 and will start reception in September). 11.30am is not too bad, I still find there's plenty of time for playdates and local soft play trips etc after I collect him. However I have taken him off nursery an awful lot for days out, it wouldn't be worth us getting to somewhere like a zoo at gone midday. I like taking them out on weekdays because it's quieter and cheaper.


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## ClaireS74

I think having the option to do what you want is great. Some people want to work, some want to stay at home. Others are just jealous that you've got that option and are doing what they would probably have wanted to do.


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## jd83

I'm just over here wishing I could have a balance more in between the 2. I work full time, and it's 45 minutes away from home. I would love to be part time and get to be home more, but we can't afford for me to be part time since my job provides our family insurance and benefits.


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## fxmummyduck

I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made. 

I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.


----------



## 6lilpigs

When registering one of our babies the registrar asked what I did for a living at time of babies birth to put down on the birth certificate, I said Housewife, she stopped gave me that slightly comforting look and said 'We don't have to put that down, we can put Home Maker or Full time Care giver' I said with a big smile I work very hard at being a housewife and I'm not embarrassed about it, she laughed along and said something light hearted back and we put down housewife. Strange how people view different situations sometimes, I wonder if next lady who came in saying they were a housewife was instead offered a big grin and a pat on the back lol :)


----------



## loeylo

fxmummyduck said:


> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.

I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified. 

Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?


----------



## catty

For us my partners wage and the smp (£580pm) is enough for us and i know exactly what you mean about the 'your so lucky' mummy duck because i get that too. But then i think well no we drive 1 car, have a low mortgage, dont do holidays often and if we do we save for ages (like years) 
I often buy the kids 2nd hand clothes and we dont eat out much. Im sure if people had to they could too but my friend who has 2 cars and a holiday to America i get the 'your so lucky' 
Im in nursing and i feel the same it been 8 years since i graduated now so i have to go on a retraining course which is about 6 mo ths and after that it says there is work so i plan to do that in a few years when my youngest is at nursery but otherwise its very difficult.


----------



## loeylo

catty said:


> For us my partners wage and the smp (£580pm) is enough for us and i know exactly what you mean about the 'your so lucky' mummy duck because i get that too. But then i think well no we drive 1 car, have a low mortgage, dont do holidays often and if we do we save for ages (like years)
> I often buy the kids 2nd hand clothes and we dont eat out much. Im sure if people had to they could too but my friend who has 2 cars and a holiday to America i get the 'your so lucky'
> Im in nursing and i feel the same it been 8 years since i graduated now so i have to go on a retraining course which is about 6 mo ths and after that it says there is work so i plan to do that in a few years when my youngest is at nursery but otherwise its very difficult.

I get the "you're so lucky" too because apparently we must be well off because we have a car, own our own home and both have jobs. Our house is a two/three bed ex local authority (admittedly in a nice area) which we got at a brilliant price, our car is a 58 plate and falling apart. We haven't been on a proper family holiday yet, although we do have money for days out and we eat out as a family once per week. 

It really does work both ways. People imagine two income households to be loaded, when in reality we aren't - there are not many short term benefits, the main thing that we can do is pay our mortgage off quicker (we will be mortgage free by 35 at this rate) - yet my non working friends always ask me to go on expensive play dates at the weekend, which I can't do because 1. I can't afford it and 2. Weekends are family time.

Both options have sacrifices but for us it isn't a choice as due to my partners illness he can't work full time hours (he did work full time when I was pregnant, the original plan was that we would both drop one day per week but he had to drop 2.5 so I couldn't drop any)


----------



## catty

I really agree it works both ways! My friend who works around 24 hours per week actually makes less than i do working 15 hours or on smp (i get the same either way really) because she has childcare to pay. Its swings and roundabouts really. i really just dont think there is an 'easy' way. 
On my fb account i have honestly about 25 people selling things - toothpaste, coffee, diet products, branded make up and toiletries and saying how you should join and have it all just like them. I just want to laugh, i know someone who works for one of the companies hes very high up and gets around £800pm so the people on the bottom are not making all that much and make it look amazing. Anyway im going off topic but i keep getting fb messages from certain ones i feel im a bit of a target to them since i have kids.


----------



## loeylo

catty said:


> I really agree it works both ways! My friend who works around 24 hours per week actually makes less than i do working 15 hours or on smp (i get the same either way really) because she has childcare to pay. Its swings and roundabouts really. i really just dont think there is an 'easy' way.
> On my fb account i have honestly about 25 people selling things - toothpaste, coffee, diet products, branded make up and toiletries and saying how you should join and have it all judt like them. I just want to laugh, i know someone who works for one of the companies hes very high up and gets around £800pm so the people on the bottom are not making all that much and make it look amazing. Anyway im going off topic but i keep getting fb messages from certain ones i feel im a bit of a target to them since i have kids.

As I said my partner is part time, he wanted to work 3 days but he would be £50 per MONTH better off than working 2.5 days. He has a reasonably well paid job so I can totally understand why many families make the choice to have one parent working part time or not at all. 

With regards to my comments about sexism, he gets quite a lot of stick for having to take time off work for her appointments and things (he uses holidays or swaps his days working) as he is asked why I can't go instead - it's assumed that just because I'm the mother I should be the one going, when he is actually our daughters main caregiver.


----------



## Wobbles

george83 said:


> I'm totally jealous that you're a sahm - i would love to be! I honestly think times need to change so that every family has the opportunity for one parent to be able to stay at home if they want to

Its not me personally - I share the articles for discussion.

x


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## CRWx

This was such an interesting debate to read! I think there's always going to be people from both a working POV and a SAHM POV that feel as though they're being judged (etc) for whichever choice, someone always has something to say!

I'm a full time student and my daughter is in nursery 4 days a week, I don't fit the SAHM criteria nor the working mum criteria- I'm inbetween! I get the 'oh you're so lucky' comments as well as the pity, lol. It's a choice that works for us but I still get the mummy guilt whether that be due to working too much or not enough :dohh:

The way I look at it is that everyone's so completely different, how can we have a big sweeping view on either sides? Whatever works for you- whether that's working, staying at home or looking after your kids whilst upside down, on a pogo stick.


----------



## fxmummyduck

loeylo said:


> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...

I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.

To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.


----------



## loeylo

fxmummyduck said:


> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...

Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!


----------



## fxmummyduck

loeylo said:


> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...
> 
> Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!Click to expand...

How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?


----------



## zorak

fxmummyduck said:


> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...
> 
> Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!Click to expand...
> 
> How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?Click to expand...

It's not true. I'm Scottish trained, have a few years experience. I lived in the US for nearly 5 years and couldn't teach there. I'd have had to get all my transcripts accredited and go back to uni for certain modules. It's extraordinarily expensive and I was in CA where loads of teachers were being laid off so it was not worth the hassle. You only tend to get accepted in totally private schools. I have a friend living in NV, same qualifications, experience as me, she's taught in the UK and Italy but is having to spend 20000 US dollars to get her masters allowing her to teach in Nevada.

That being said I have slotted back into the Scottish system no problem. I just did some volunteer time in school to get up to date and get an up to date reference.


----------



## zorak

I did work in the US though but there's so many different visa types.


----------



## Pearls18

Well try telling people you CHOOSE and ENJOY being a working mum and see what rude reaction you get to that ha! We can't win, you're only allowed to be a working mum if you have no choice, if you choose/have little choice in being a SAHM (I'm another who will never use full time mum, way before I was even a mother myself) then you're seen as not being ambitious. Buuut put them in childcare and you're not raising them yourself apparently. Buut stay home and what are you doing all day?
WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US? Or do we all have more of a collective impact on this than we realise...I'd be lying if I said I didn't have my own insecurities and prejudices despite claiming everyone should do what's best for them. In the end I just have to do what's best for me and support those around me in the decisions they make.

The one thing I always say to myself in all this, when has my husband be judged for working full time despite being a dad? When has he been asked if he will be returning to work? Or when has he been asked "where are the children?" when he works away. I have an awesome husband btw, it's not a reflection of him.


----------



## loeylo

zorak said:


> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loeylo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...
> 
> Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!Click to expand...
> 
> How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?Click to expand...
> 
> It's not true. I'm Scottish trained, have a few years experience. I lived in the US for nearly 5 years and couldn't teach there. I'd have had to get all my transcripts accredited and go back to uni for certain modules. It's extraordinarily expensive and I was in CA where loads of teachers were being laid off so it was not worth the hassle. You only tend to get accepted in totally private schools. I have a friend living in NV, same qualifications, experience as me, she's taught in the UK and Italy but is having to spend 20000 US dollars to get her masters allowing her to teach in Nevada.
> 
> That being said I have slotted back into the Scottish system no problem. I just did some volunteer time in school to get up to date and get an up to date reference.Click to expand...

In Scotland you need a PGDE not a PGCE. I don't have either though, I did a joint honours with education. With my degree I can teach pretty much anywhere - although when I did my degree (started in 2009) there was only one university which offered this in the secondary sector. I'm hopefully starting a masters in education soon. 

Maybe the fact I did the concurrent degree is the difference.


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## zorak

loeylo said:


> zorak said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
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> loeylo said:
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> loeylo said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
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> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...
> 
> Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!Click to expand...
> 
> How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?Click to expand...
> 
> It's not true. I'm Scottish trained, have a few years experience. I lived in the US for nearly 5 years and couldn't teach there. I'd have had to get all my transcripts accredited and go back to uni for certain modules. It's extraordinarily expensive and I was in CA where loads of teachers were being laid off so it was not worth the hassle. You only tend to get accepted in totally private schools. I have a friend living in NV, same qualifications, experience as me, she's taught in the UK and Italy but is having to spend 20000 US dollars to get her masters allowing her to teach in Nevada.
> 
> That being said I have slotted back into the Scottish system no problem. I just did some volunteer time in school to get up to date and get an up to date reference.Click to expand...
> 
> In Scotland you need a PGDE not a PGCE. I don't have either though, I did a joint honours with education. With my degree I can teach pretty much anywhere - although when I did my degree (started in 2009) there was only one university which offered this in the secondary sector. I'm hopefully starting a masters in education soon.
> 
> Maybe the fact I did the concurrent degree is the difference.Click to expand...

I have a PGDE and was told we'd be able to teach pretty much anywhere. The reality isn't true. In the US different States have different rules. Having a concurrent degree wouldn't help, it's not relevant to each State (even out of State teachers often have to do additional classes). I have a friend who emigrated to Canada and she also had to do additional training. It really does just depend on the job market at the time. I didn't expect to get a permanent job so quickly after moving back to the UK, but with the teacher shortage I got one pretty easily.


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## loeylo

zorak said:


> loeylo said:
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> zorak said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
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> loeylo said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
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> loeylo said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...
> 
> Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!Click to expand...
> 
> How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?Click to expand...
> 
> It's not true. I'm Scottish trained, have a few years experience. I lived in the US for nearly 5 years and couldn't teach there. I'd have had to get all my transcripts accredited and go back to uni for certain modules. It's extraordinarily expensive and I was in CA where loads of teachers were being laid off so it was not worth the hassle. You only tend to get accepted in totally private schools. I have a friend living in NV, same qualifications, experience as me, she's taught in the UK and Italy but is having to spend 20000 US dollars to get her masters allowing her to teach in Nevada.
> 
> That being said I have slotted back into the Scottish system no problem. I just did some volunteer time in school to get up to date and get an up to date reference.Click to expand...
> 
> In Scotland you need a PGDE not a PGCE. I don't have either though, I did a joint honours with education. With my degree I can teach pretty much anywhere - although when I did my degree (started in 2009) there was only one university which offered this in the secondary sector. I'm hopefully starting a masters in education soon.
> 
> Maybe the fact I did the concurrent degree is the difference.Click to expand...
> 
> I have a PGDE and was told we'd be able to teach pretty much anywhere. The reality isn't true. In the US different States have different rules. Having a concurrent degree wouldn't help, it's not relevant to each State (even out of State teachers often have to do additional classes). I have a friend who emigrated to Canada and she also had to do additional training. It really does just depend on the job market at the time. I didn't expect to get a permanent job so quickly after moving back to the UK, but with the teacher shortage I got one pretty easily.Click to expand...

You are lucky. Where I am (central belt) there are little to no jobs in my subject. Out of my class, roughly half are still doing supply.


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## zorak

loeylo said:


> zorak said:
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> loeylo said:
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> zorak said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
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> loeylo said:
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> fxmummyduck said:
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> 
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> loeylo said:
> 
> 
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> fxmummyduck said:
> 
> 
> I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.
> 
> I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
> 
> I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (£480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.
> 
> Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?Click to expand...
> 
> I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.
> 
> To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.Click to expand...
> 
> Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly £5 per paper!Click to expand...
> 
> How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?Click to expand...
> 
> It's not true. I'm Scottish trained, have a few years experience. I lived in the US for nearly 5 years and couldn't teach there. I'd have had to get all my transcripts accredited and go back to uni for certain modules. It's extraordinarily expensive and I was in CA where loads of teachers were being laid off so it was not worth the hassle. You only tend to get accepted in totally private schools. I have a friend living in NV, same qualifications, experience as me, she's taught in the UK and Italy but is having to spend 20000 US dollars to get her masters allowing her to teach in Nevada.
> 
> That being said I have slotted back into the Scottish system no problem. I just did some volunteer time in school to get up to date and get an up to date reference.Click to expand...
> 
> In Scotland you need a PGDE not a PGCE. I don't have either though, I did a joint honours with education. With my degree I can teach pretty much anywhere - although when I did my degree (started in 2009) there was only one university which offered this in the secondary sector. I'm hopefully starting a masters in education soon.
> 
> Maybe the fact I did the concurrent degree is the difference.Click to expand...
> 
> I have a PGDE and was told we'd be able to teach pretty much anywhere. The reality isn't true. In the US different States have different rules. Having a concurrent degree wouldn't help, it's not relevant to each State (even out of State teachers often have to do additional classes). I have a friend who emigrated to Canada and she also had to do additional training. It really does just depend on the job market at the time. I didn't expect to get a permanent job so quickly after moving back to the UK, but with the teacher shortage I got one pretty easily.Click to expand...
> 
> You are lucky. Where I am (central belt) there are little to no jobs in my subject. Out of my class, roughly half are still doing supply.Click to expand...

I'm central belt too, but Primary.


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## whatwillbex

Hi wow big thread. I remember this one time I went to a baby group and this lady asked me what I did for a living. I said oh I'm a sahm and she looked at me like I swore and walked off? Haha I can never get my head around that encounter it was like she made a snap decision about me and thought no we will have nothing in common or something.. was so rude and I felt so small, she was so snooty so she was probably right!. Lol x


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## loeylo

whatwillbex said:


> Hi wow big thread. I remember this one time I went to a baby group and this lady asked me what I did for a living. I said oh I'm a sahm and she looked at me like I swore and walked off? Haha I can never get my head around that encounter it was like she made a snap decision about me and thought no we will have nothing in common or something.. was so rude and I felt so small, she was so snooty so she was probably right!. Lol x

That's just weird, as much as I find most of my mum friend work, I wouldn't be put off by someone who was a SAHM. I find working people are maybe a bit more understanding of the fact I can't really commit to meeting up regularly or making short term plans. That person was definitely just judgemental!


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## whatwillbex

I know it was upsetting at the time as I just plucked up the courage to try and go and make some mum friends. I have to admit every time Weirdly meet some one like a new parent at my DD preschool I dread the question and feel embarrassed when I tell them.
Its crazy as I feel I need to justify why I'm at home. I'm getting more questions about when I'm returning to work now that I'm expecting with no#2? Such a funny world we live in there's no right or wrong as every family is different x


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## lau86

whatwillbex said:


> I know it was upsetting at the time as I just plucked up the courage to try and go and make some mum friends. I have to admit every time Weirdly meet some one like a new parent at my DD preschool I dread the question and feel embarrassed when I tell them.
> Its crazy as I feel I need to justify why I'm at home. I'm getting more questions about when I'm returning to work now that I'm expecting with no#2? Such a funny world we live in there's no right or wrong as every family is different x

That woman was just rude and weird, it's a complete non issue to me and every other mum I know irl. I can't see why it's still a debate. This whole thread was started by a (made up?) article.


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## catty

I do find it funny because its not as if any of the SAHM on this thread or any that were talking about are gaining money from it or doing something 'bad' 
I do find it frustrating when people choose it as a lifestyle but have to claim benefits or i know one person in particular who pretends shes looking for work so still recieves jobseekers allowance. I also know another girl who i worked with, she never put her partner on the birth certificate and pretended she is single. She honestly recieves everything under the sun because she works 16 hours so between them they have range rovers, a gorgeous house etc etc i was so close to phoning up about it. 

So yes if you can afford to be a SAHM and choose that as your lifestyle and you WANT to then good on you. if you want to go back to work then thats brilliant too.
Just dont be one of those that are moaning about the other. The grass isnt always greener. I feel like i can say from both sides because i do normally work (on mat leave) but at the same time i cant imagine what working full time is like with kids just as i dont think being on maternity leave for 9 months is anything like the reality of being a SAHM to multiple aged children.


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## loeylo

whatwillbex said:


> I know it was upsetting at the time as I just plucked up the courage to try and go and make some mum friends. I have to admit every time Weirdly meet some one like a new parent at my DD preschool I dread the question and feel embarrassed when I tell them.
> Its crazy as I feel I need to justify why I'm at home. I'm getting more questions about when I'm returning to work now that I'm expecting with no#2? Such a funny world we live in there's no right or wrong as every family is different x

Oddly enough I get "oh that's a shame you have to go back to work so soon" and people assuming I am a single parent! - my daughter is 18 months, I don't really consider that to be young for me to be working nowadays. 

I live in an elderly neighbourhood. My neighbours are nice, but very old fashioned. I really needed to bite my tongue earlier when they made a comment that it was shocking that my partner was the one bringing in the washing!


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## catty

18 months is probably a great age. 
I took a part time job when my 2nd was 4 months because i was bored out my mind after having 2 back to back maternity leaves. Its only 3 hours a night though but still nice to get away for a bit haha. 
The washing how funny im sure men are prefectly capable!


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## Tanikins

I work full time and I take my hat off to sahms. Yes my life is full on and hectic. I have to fit in drop offs /pick ups, and 8hr work day, cleaning, washing, cooking etc. But honestly I cannot be a sahms. I tried it for 8 months and that was enough. Being sold responsably for your child's everything all day every day is hard. Lack of adult convo is hard.

I don't care that other people might not see me as a full time mum. Your opinion doesn't really affect my life. I am a mum all the time, but spending all my time with my kids isn't for me. Kids are hard &#128514;


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## fantastica

I've done both (currently work full time) and I think mums feel judged no matter which we do or choose. I do find it hard to stay on top of things my son has on at school and homework etc. when working and without a lot of help from family I'd really struggle (but I'm not an organised person!), the ideal for me would be to work part time..so I'd still get the adult time and be able to be there more for my son. I honestly couldn't care less what other mums do though, whatever is best for each individual family...women probably need to be a lot more supportive of each other though, it's tough enough being a mum!


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## Twag

Tanikins said:


> I work full time and I take my hat off to sahms. Yes my life is full on and hectic. I have to fit in drop offs /pick ups, and 8hr work day, cleaning, washing, cooking etc. But honestly I cannot be a sahms. I tried it for 8 months and that was enough. Being sold responsably for your child's everything all day every day is hard. Lack of adult convo is hard.
> 
> I don't care that other people might not see me as a full time mum. Your opinion doesn't really affect my life. I am a mum all the time, but spending all my time with my kids isn't for me. Kids are hard &#128514;

I could have written this word for word! I am a mum to 2 little people and I work full time (accountant) and I am amazed by SAHM & childminders as that job is damn hard! 

Don't get me wrong I love spending time with my children and I feel a tonne of Mum guilt daily but I financially cannot do part time or be a SAHM :wacko: plus I have studied hard for my career (recently qualified). My children know I love them unconditionally, working does not change that :shrug:

Working Mum or Stay at home Mum we are *ALL* Full Time Mum's


----------

