# Dealing with azoospermia?



## Deb111

Hi ladies,

A little of over 3 months ago hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia - I'd never heard of it. I'd also never heard of ICSI which we are now heading for. All I can say is 'thank God' for forums like this! I have found several others on here who are at various stages of going through the same process as we are and thought it would be good to have a place where we can all share our experiences and feelings. 

So a little about me ...

My name's Deb and I'm 36. Hubby is 44. We've been TTC since we got married 2 years ago. After the first few months I always felt something was not quite right, but everyone told me to 'relax' and stop stressing.

In Dec 2009 we went to our GP and got referred to the fertility clinic who did some basic tests and diagnosed hubby with azoospermia (after initially telling us that hubby's first SA was 'normal' ... but that's a whole other story!)

He is now waiting for his SSR in October. It was our choice to delay until then as I wanted to get hubby on the supplements to make sure that if they do find sperm, they're the best quality they can be.

Whilst I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone, I hope that those of you who are dealing with it will drop by and introduce yourselves and if you want to let me know dates of SSR's, ICSI treatments etc, I will add them to the front page.

It would also be nice to hear any azoospermia / SSR success stories! 

Deb xx

*Thought it would be a good idea to add a list of some of the things we've come up with that it might be useful to ask urologist / medical professionals. I'll add it as a spoiler so that those who want to can access it without it taking up loads of room.*

Spoiler
Urologist will check for presence of the vas deferens and may also do an ultrasound scan

Was the sperm sample centrifuged? This can sometimes locate an occasional sperm that may otherwise be missed

Make sure the folllowing blood tests are done - FSH, LH, estradiol, prolactin, testosterone, thyroid, test for cystic fibrosis carrier, test for Y chromosome microdeletion, karyotype test

Also ask if they will freeze any sperm if found in future SA's

They may plan to do a surgical sperm retrieval - ask if this will be:
- PESA (Percutaneous Epididymal Sperm Aspiration)
This procedure may be performed under GA or local anaesthetic with sedation. A fine needle is passed into the epididymis to extract fluid. This is then checked in the laboratory by the embryologist for sperm.
- TESE (Testicular Sperm Extraction)
This procedure may be performed under GA or local anaesthetic with sedation. A small sample of testicular tissue is extracted from the testes. This can be achieved by either a fine needle being inserted into the testes or a small incision being made.
- MESA (Micro-epididymal Sperm Aspiration)
MESA is a procedure to retrieve sperm from the epididymis in men who have a diagnosed blocked vas deferens It is normally carried out under general anaesthetic. The sperm that is taken from the epididymis usually has poor motility so doctors usually proceed to ICSI on the same day.

Also VERY important to ask if they find any sperm, no matter how few, will they freeze for future treatment? With my hubby, they found 3 perfectly healthy, well developed sperm, but our clinic got rid of them because they said that they have a minimum requirement of 100 for freezing! We were NOT told this prior to the surgery)
*If your dh's want to chat about azoospermia with other men going through it, I've set up a thread on another forum

Spoiler
https://www.southwestvasectomyreversal.com/forum/viewthread/180/
*
*REPOSTED VIDEO AS THE PREVIOUS LINK DIDN'T WORK ANYMORE. I know I've posted this in the thread somewhere, but I can never find it. You might like to have a look at a video journal I've put together of some of the emotions and feelings we've been going through, and are going through. It was something that I initially just did for myself and to share with close family and friends, but I hope by posting it here, others might realise they're not going through these feelings alone.*


Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzaBYcrlFB4

 deafgal01 - My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. Biopsy done July 2012 which revealed no blockage issues. DH tried on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole, but it didn't do the trick. Tried two IUI in 2013, one natural and one with injections before IUI process, both didn't work. Now on break awaiting for 2015 to try again but with home insemination.

rdleela - obstructive azoos; Vasoepididymostomy (VE) surgery was successful in Sept.2012, natural pregnancy 14 months later resulted in healthy baby girl born Aug.2014 

Rainbow123 - BFP after failed mTESE and went to option B of IUI with donor sperm. Baby due 3rd Feb 2015

arzoo - synchonised cycle at the Lister in March 2014 and we were exteremely luck to find sperm - :bfp: It's twins!:baby: :baby: 

loobylou_01 - Owen Leslie (8lb 8oz) born 1st May 2011 :baby::blue: and a little sister for Owen; Imogen :pink: 

Flake-y - Xander Blair Robert (8lb 15oz) born 11th November 2011 :baby::blue: and a little brother for Xander; Caleb :blue:

Deb111 - successful microTESE, 1 falied ICSI, :bfp: 23rd Feb 2012 from FET Aimee Meghan born 26th Oct 2012 (8lb 13.5oz) :baby::pink: Soon to be starting 2nd round of ICSI to see if we can get a little brother or sister for Aimee

Pink Lolly - Second DIUI - :bfp: April 2012 :dance:

Raelynn - Daughter born May 2013 from DIUI, doing DIUI again for baby 2

Bubumachi - 6th ICSI cycle (using frozen sperm - thanks to tamoxifen) :bfp: :blue: due Nov 3rd 2014

Mikihob - currently on the road to IVF. Fourth failed IUI and am now moving onto IVF. 




silverbell - mTESE - 0 sperm. Currently TTC with donor sperm IUI.

Bookworm - first ICSI cycle December 2011; OTD 23rd December 2011 :bfp: :dance:

Sar187 - 2nd IVF/ICSI cycle - :bfp: 23rd December 2011 :dance: 

wibble wobble - waiting for donor matching 

KB38 - trying to decide what to do next ..... 

Tigerlily - DH to have TESE 23rd March 2012 (keeping everything crossed!) 

SND - Waiting for 1st IUI w/ Donor in May/June, 2012 

CanadianMaple -We have ruled out mTESE and am on BCP, preparing for a dIUI with clomid and a trigger shot. IUI planned for the end of July or very first week of August 2012 

MissAma - LTTTC since 2006, NOA diagnosed April 2008 - successful SSR and iCSI in Spain 2008 - chemical no frosties- new SSR and ICSI in Sweden 2010 - Dara Tea Maria our miracle azoo baby born 11th of Dec 2010 :pink: - 3rd SSR on the 17th of January 2012 

mumanddad - Corbyn Matthew born 28th January 2012 (4lb 15oz) :baby::blue: 

Stinas - ER - Aug. 6 - 12 Eggs - 10 Mature - 3 Embryos, possibly couple more late fertilization - ET 8/11 

Cosita - Appointment with ICSi consultant - 7th May 2012

MJ - one grade A frostie on board - OTD 21st June 2012 :bfp: :dance: 

SunUp - May 2012 - doing IUI with clomid

Wanbmum - 20th Jan 2011 - waiting to find out if they will operate on dh 

Wrightywales - ET July 2010 :angel: :hugs:

Step Mummy - SSR 1st September 2010

Waitingginger - Hubby's ultrasound scan - 3rd September 2010

April4jdg - HSG - 14th September 2010 - all clear - testicular biopsy 6th Jan 2011 - D-IUI 18th May 2011

Hulahoops04 - Urology appointment 14th September 2010 - Infertility Clinic appointment - 1st October 2010

laura25 - Appointment 4th October 2010

Nayla82 - 12th March 2011 EC :bfn: :hugs:

Dancergirl - IUI 26th Feb 2011 :bfp: :happydance: 

ArmyWifey - Dr's appt - 22nd April 2011

Wifeyw - DH awaiting TESE biopsy appointment

Luckdragon - First urology appintment - 27th July 2011


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## Deb111

Anyone? :coffee:


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## Flake-y

Hello Deb, it's me, sorry your first thread post isn't going to be a success story!! So far, anyway.

You know it all anyway, but I'll tell my story...

I'm Jo, 31, hubby has just turned 41. We've been together for 5 years, married for 18 months. Azoospermia was diagnosed in March after properly trying for nearly a year, and NTNP for probably about 2 years or more. Like Deb, I jus knew something was wrong, although I was convinced it was me!

Anyway, we've been attending the GCRM in Glasgow for our treatment, it's unfortunately a private clinic, the NHS waiting times here are over 2 years! Ridiculous.

SSR was on 13th July, and very sadly, no sperm was found. So my poor habby has been hobbling around with swollen, bruised & stirched balls since then. And all for nothing.

We've decided to go ahead with treatment using donor sperm, we're going back to the clinic on 4th August to find out whether we'll still need the IVF or whatever.

All in all, we've had a really shitty year, but are over the latest shock & hoping nothing else bad will happen! Please?


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## Deb111

Thanks for popping by Jo. I've added your appt to the list.

Will pop over to your journal and see how you're doing xx


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## loobylou_01

Hi Deb & Jo,

Only me, again you know our story too but here goes:

I'm 24, DH 25, married for almost 2 years and ttc same amount of time. Again i knew something was wrong but everyone says 'relax!' and i also thought it was me.

Saw GP last November, SA came back showing azoospermia, 2nd SA confirmed the same. DH seen by urology and then we were referred to FS. Discussed and agreed to have SSR coinciding with IVF cycle with donor sperm back up.

Currently been D/R for 13 days, D/R scan booked for Tuesday, hoping to start stimms next week. DH's SSR and my EC scheduled for sometime during wc 9th Aug. This is our one and only NHS go.

Fingers crossed for some good news before the year is out, it started very badly with the azoospermia diagnosis on new years eve :(

Fingers crossed for us all, would be fab to hear some success stories xx


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## Deb111

Nice to see you hun :flower:

Have added you too. Good luck for Tuesday!


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## wrightywales

hello ladies

hope your all well

so heres a little bit of background
im anita im 29 and hubby is 43 with been together 12 yrs married for nearly 10. 
NTNP for first 7 yrs but started taking it more serious in 2005. 
hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia in november 06 caused by a genetic disorder we didnt even know he had so was told that ICSI with a donor was our only choice. was very hard to hear so took a little time out to make sure we were ready and it was what we wanted. 
My Treatments
May/June 09 IVF ended with a BFN
Sept 09 FET BFP ending in early miscarrige 
July 10 FET BFP 

only had my BFP yesterday after waiting 8 days after AF was late to do a second test :dohh::dohh::dohh::dohh::dohh: so wish i had done one sooner. i know its only early days just hoping this little beans sticks. have my first scan on 10th of august.

wanna wish all you ladies the very best in treatment hope you get your BFPs very soon :dust::dust::dust: :hug::hugs:


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## Deb111

It's so nice to hear a success story :happydance:

Am I right in thinking you froze embryos from your first IVF for your second and third? I'm not up on all the IVF / ICSI process yet :dohh:

Can I ask how hubby dealt with the whole donor thing? 

H&H 9 months to you

Deb xx


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## Flake-y

wrightywales said:


> hello ladies
> 
> hope your all well
> 
> so heres a little bit of background
> im anita im 29 and hubby is 43 with been together 12 yrs married for nearly 10.
> NTNP for first 7 yrs but started taking it more serious in 2005.
> hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia in november 06 caused by a genetic disorder we didnt even know he had so was told that ICSI with a donor was our only choice. was very hard to hear so took a little time out to make sure we were ready and it was what we wanted.
> My Treatments
> May/June 09 IVF ended with a BFN
> Sept 09 FET BFP ending in early miscarrige
> July 10 FET BFP
> 
> only had my BFP yesterday after waiting 8 days after AF was late to do a second test :dohh::dohh::dohh::dohh::dohh: so wish i had done one sooner. i know its only early days just hoping this little beans sticks. have my first scan on 10th of august.
> 
> wanna wish all you ladies the very best in treatment hope you get your BFPs very soon :dust::dust::dust: :hug::hugs:

Congratulations!!!:happydance:


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## Deb111

Loving the new pic Jo :thumbup:


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## Hopeful27yrs

We're dealing with azoospermia as well. Our story is much the same - although DH had bilateral undescended testicles which weren't corrected until much later in life - at the age of 28. He decided to get them fixed to enable himself to check them as the chances of testicular cancer are higher. 

We got a SA which showed azoospermia on 2 separate occasions and we're not attempting SSR as we've been advised that it's basically clutching at straws - no biological child has ever been born to anyone with correction this late in life and the quality of any sperm found would be very questionable. 

Our choices are basically adoption or donor sperm - which is probably the route we're most likely to take. I must admit I am rather frustrated by the fact that his undescended testicles weren't corrected much earlier in life - his mother now denies knowing (?!) despite telling us his own father had one undescended testicle corrected as a child!!!


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## Deb111

Hi Hopeful

It must be so frustrating for you dealing with this in such circumstances :hugs:

I'm really glad you've joined us though to share your story and the ups and downs of your journey. Hopefully you will have a baby in your arms before too long.

Deb xx


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## Hopeful27yrs

Thank you - it's difficult but we have to move on and look at our options. It's nice to know we're not alone :)


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## loobylou_01

wrightywales said:


> hello ladies
> 
> hope your all well
> 
> so heres a little bit of background
> im anita im 29 and hubby is 43 with been together 12 yrs married for nearly 10.
> NTNP for first 7 yrs but started taking it more serious in 2005.
> hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia in november 06 caused by a genetic disorder we didnt even know he had so was told that ICSI with a donor was our only choice. was very hard to hear so took a little time out to make sure we were ready and it was what we wanted.
> My Treatments
> May/June 09 IVF ended with a BFN
> Sept 09 FET BFP ending in early miscarrige
> July 10 FET BFP
> 
> only had my BFP yesterday after waiting 8 days after AF was late to do a second test :dohh::dohh::dohh::dohh::dohh: so wish i had done one sooner. i know its only early days just hoping this little beans sticks. have my first scan on 10th of august.
> 
> wanna wish all you ladies the very best in treatment hope you get your BFPs very soon :dust::dust::dust: :hug::hugs:

Congratulations! Great to hear a success story! Good luck x


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## Deb111

loobylou_01 said:


> Currently been D/R for 13 days, D/R scan booked for Tuesday, hoping to start stimms next week.

Hope the scan goes well tomorrow and that you can move onto the next stage. Let us know how you get on hun xx


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## wrightywales

hello ladies

my good news was short lived started bleeding this morning and hasnt stopped so thats the end for now. i hope to have a fresh ICSI cycle in a few months

good luck to you all and i will be back xxxxxx


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## Deb111

So sorry hun :hugs:

Look after yourself xx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Wrightywales,
I am so sorry, you must be so upset, what a tough journey and horrible roller coaster ride!

My thoughts are with you, and fingers crossed for next time,
AngelaX


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies

Thank you for setting up this thread, this is my story: (Sorry its a long one - I get carried away!!!)

I am 32, DH is 48, he has 18 yr old son. We have been together 10 1/2yrs, married since last June, I came off pill in the Jan previous so that we were ready to try the morning after the wedding (well I had been waiting to get married and have babies for at least 6 years! so I was in a hurry to get it all going, DH was scarred by his first wife and took a long time to feel confident enough to do it all again!)

I was confident and never imagined I would be here a yr later with no baby, especially as DH has a child. Anyway I got on quickly with the OPK's and temp kits, so after 10 months went to doctors. We were horrified when DH was told there was NO sperm whatsoever! Completely shocked and upset.

We have since had our first referral to hospital, he has been checked by specialist, and his scan is booked for 13th Aug. We are praying that the scan shows something up, like a blockage, as it is either a blockage or he has stopped producing them altogether. After the scan it is likely he will have the "cutting him open" op (sorry don't know technical term yet!). Although if the scan shows the blockage then we will go for the corrective op, so we can go away and try ourselves before doing ICSI. I hope we get to do this, although I am not sure at this stage, because no-one is around to ask questions. Its like you wait 6 weeks for the appointment, then after that one you get booked for the next one with anothr 6 week wait, and no-one is around in between to ask questions.

After the op this is far as NHS will go, as because he has a son, we don't qualify for ICSI through NHS. So we have to go private.

I am mostly worried about DH's age, as he is going to heading towards retirement soon, although he does not share this concern (I think he should) so I want to get things moving quickly!

Prior to deciding to go with this, we did strongly consider adoption, but after chatting to friends we agreed that we should at least find out if the swimmers are there - otherwise we would always regret not trying.

What vitamins etc should DH be taking to help his swimmers (if they are there)?

I look forward to going through the tough journey with you all, best of luck everyone
Angela
X


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## Deb111

Hi Angela and welcome 

Whilst I wouldn't wish this on anyone, we're glad you've joined us :flower:

We have no explanation for hubby's azoospermia at the moment. We are just keeping everything crossed for his SSR (Surgical Sperm Retrieval)

As for supplements and diet advice; I asked hubby's urologist exactly the same question and I did point out that we knew nothing would help if there weren't any sperm found, but wanted to know what he could do to make sure that if any were found, they would be the best quality possible. He was very dismissive and said there was nothing we could or should do!!! I wonder if he misunderstood :shrug: but I would have thought he should have been offering this advice even if we hadn't have asked.

Now I know there is a lot of advice out there and some of it is dubious as to whether it helps or not, but for example, it is a well know fact that zinc is crucial in the production of sperm, so I was shocked that he didn't even mention that for a start.

Anyway, when we had our info session with the nurse about the SSR in June, she was going to book us in for August, but we delayed it til October because we wanted to give the supplements a chance and she thought it was a sensible idea. We have delayed the op until end of October as sperm take 3 months to form and the supplements wont do anything for the ones that had hopefully already started to form.

Hubby takes wellman conception, which has a load of stuff in including maca that a lot of people talk about on here and then he is also taking omega 3 fish oil. From what I read at the time, omega 3 hasn't been proven to change things, but there is some suggestion that it can help, plus there was an experiment done with infertile mice and the omega 3 sorted it! Now I'm aware that this is early research, but I figured that it wont do him any harm at all and may actually help. There's some interesting reading if you google it.

Anyway, we all know what's it like to be waiting ages for appts and we're all at different stages so feel free to ask away if we can help.

Sorry for the essay :blush:

Deb xx


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## Deb111

Sorry - have edited the previous post. The SSR wont be the op your hubby is having Angela

Do you have any idea when they will be doing his op?

xx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Debs, thanks for the info, I will make a trip to Boots and dose him up with stuff!

Re the SSR, that sounds like the name, so it may be the same, they cut his bits open and take out tissue which would hopefully contain the swimmers? So it may be the same?

You now are playing a waiting game, not having anything booked until October, but I understand the reasons fully and its a good idea.

I hope that in the meantime you can try to relax and enjoy yourself before the hard part comes. Best wishes and keep in touch
Angela
X


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## Deb111

Thanks Angela. Being in limbo is horrible.

That does sound like the SSR op. I was getting confused with you talking about an op to remove a blockage :dohh:

Hope you're having a good day xx


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## loobylou_01

wrightywales said:


> hello ladies
> 
> my good news was short lived started bleeding this morning and hasnt stopped so thats the end for now. i hope to have a fresh ICSI cycle in a few months
> 
> good luck to you all and i will be back xxxxxx

Very sorry to hear this news, take care of yourself xxx


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## loobylou_01

Hi girls,
Just to say the scan went well, everything going to plan apparantly, endometrium nice and thin and ovaries looking okay, had bloods done and the nurse has just rung to say i am to start stimms injections on thursday night and due to go back on monday morning for another scan!

Angela, welcome to the thread! Good luck with your journey, hope you get some good news soon. My hubby is also taking wellman conception, our SSR will be in the next couple of weeks, getting very close. When will your DH get his scan?

xxx


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## Deb111

Glad to hear the scan went well hun and that you can get onto the next stage.

I guess hubby's SSR depends on the exact day of your EC?

xx


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## loobylou_01

Deb111 said:


> Glad to hear the scan went well hun and that you can get onto the next stage.
> 
> I guess hubby's SSR depends on the exact day of your EC?
> 
> xx

yep that's right, they said w/c 9th aug but obviously it will all depend on how the stims goes. getting excited now x


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## Flake-y

wrightywales said:


> hello ladies
> 
> my good news was short lived started bleeding this morning and hasnt stopped so thats the end for now. i hope to have a fresh ICSI cycle in a few months
> 
> good luck to you all and i will be back xxxxxx

I am so sorry to hear your bad news; hope you are ok:hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Hopeful27yrs

All the best loobylou for the IVF. 

Wrightywales - sorry to hear your news.

We're thinking about looking more into sperm donation in 18months - 2 years. It'll give us time to research it fully and our options.


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## Step Mummy

Hi Loobylou - the scan is booked for 18 Aug now, so not too long now! Just got wait it out then we will know what we are facing - i am sure you have all been there !

Waiting as always!


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## Deb111

wrightywales said:


> hello ladies
> 
> my good news was short lived started bleeding this morning and hasnt stopped so thats the end for now. i hope to have a fresh ICSI cycle in a few months
> 
> good luck to you all and i will be back xxxxxx

Just wanted to see how you're doing hun? We're all thinking of you xx


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## Dancergirl

Thanks for inviting me over to this thread Deb, I really don't know how this site works, but I love reading others stories and know that I am not alone with the stress of dealing with donor.

I am 27, my husband is 30. He has had two SA that each showed no sperm. He saw urologist who told us we could try SSR but all the testing and process could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Know we didn't have that income in our life situation right now, we have tried IUI twice using anonymous donor sperm that was frozen. Each time was unsuccessful, but Dr. said we should try two more times. 

They have put me on clomid pill (50), which has greatly increased my progesterone level(which was only a 9) up to 118. Hoping to try IUI again this next cycle if our vacations don't get in the way. 

I look forward to chatting with you all and sharing stories and advice!


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## Deb111

Welcome to the group :flower:

Can I ask if they gave you any possible reason for hubby's azoospermia? undescended testes as a child? groin injury? etc

How is he dealing with all this?

I hope you find the support you need here and that the clomid works for you next IUI cycle.

Have they suggested IVF of ICSI or is this too costly over there for you?

Deb xx


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## Dancergirl

They checked his fructose l


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## Dancergirl

Oops... they checked his fructose level and found that there is no block as we were hoping for. They have given us no reason for his no sperm results. They never really labeled it azoospermia, but since there is no sperm I suppose that is what he has. We can't remember any injury or anything that could have caused it. He has everything he is suppose to have and nothing is abnormal down there. 

He often tells me that he feels like less of a man and that the one thing wants to give me, he can't. I cry every time he tells me this. I have to constantly remind him that I am so in love with him and still grateful everyday that I married him.

We can't afford IVF... I don't know how people pay for that. Hopefully one day when we have more money saved we can have more tests done on him and possibly find some sign of sperm and try IVF with his sperm. 

For now we are trying sperm donor and I am so grateful that he ok with that.


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## Deb111

I asked our clinic about testing for fructose but they said it's not something they test for!!?!?! :shrug:

Also found this info - not sure if you are aware of it - 

"Lastly, your husband should ejaculate and then have the urine following ejaculation tested for the presence of sperm. If there is sperm in his urine, this could indicate that the entry to the bladder isn't closing properly, and is therefore allowing the semen to flow into the bladder."

Again - it's not somehing our clinic investigate. They say the only way to really know is to do the SSR - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that hubby wont be going through it all for nothing.

Someone recommended a book to me - which I haven't got round to getting yet, but may be some interest to you 

"Helping The Stork, the choices and challenges of donor insemination by Carol Frost Vercollone M.S.W, Heidi Moss M.S.W and Robert Moss P.H.D."


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## Dancergirl

Deb, thank you so much for referring that book. I have looked it up and ordered it. I was in tears as I read the little pieces of the book available online (introduction and first chapter) and can't wait to read it. 

Thank you and I will keep you posted on it as I read it and when I finish it! O:)


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## Deb111

Just checking in and bumping the htread incase there's anyone out there who hasn't found us.

Looby-lou - have added your EC and SSR date to the front page.

I know I speak for all of us when I say we wish you both all the luck in the world xx


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## loobylou_01

Thanks Deb, have been meaning to update on here also.

So E/C and SSR scheduled for tomorrow at 9am, not sure how it will work, I think i'm going down to theatre at 9.30, not sure if ben will go down at the same time or not. It's all very exciting but nerve wracking, hoping for a miracle and that they will find some sperm but not counting on it. Either way tomorrow at this time we should be done and hopefully the eggies will be fertilising!

Will update tomorrow once we get home xxx


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## Flake-y

Just a wee update for the front page! Echovist all ok, tubes clear! Donor sperm picked, we're signing consent forms on the 23rd Aug, and we can start as soon as the sperm is here!!!


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## Deb111

Front page all updated girls x


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## loobylou_01

Well ladies, EC went well and we got 10 eggs! Quite pleased with that, although a couple more would have been nice, i am greedy!
SSR went okay, ben feeling a bit sore but not as bad as he thought so far. Anyway against all odds they did actually find a reasonable number of sperm, however they were all pretty rubbish and not properly formed etc, she said they didn't know whether or not they would fertilise the eggs and they pretty much encouraged us to use the donor. I would have let my heart rule and tried ben's sperm, but ben was very sensible and asked them about odds etc and they said that the best chance of success would be to use the donor, so that is what he decided. He was so brave and strong, he said he wants us to get pregnant therefore that is what he felt was best. So it was all a bit shocking really as neither of us expected that they would find any - good or bad quality as they only gave a 25% chance, so we weren't actually having to expect making a decision!
So we've gone a head with the donor and we're both okay with that. And at the end of the day who knows, maybe in a few years time they would be able to do something with the dodgy sperm, by then though i'm sure it won't matter to us as i hope we will have our baby by then.
So we will find out between 8-10am in the morning how many have fertilised and whether we will be able to go to blast - either way it'll either be transfer on Saturday or Tuesday. Fingers crossed for us! xxx


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## Deb111

Have posted in your journal hun. Hoping for some great news tomorrow and that lots of those eggs fertilise xx


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## loobylou_01

Hey girls, we got 8 mature eggs and 6 have fertilised so the clinic are hoping for some blasts, transfer will be on Tuesday, they're gonna ring us on Sunday and update us as to how they're doing, so trying to relax now and rest up. Both still very sore today but were doing good!

xxx


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## Deb111

Great news hun. Enjoy your weekend xx


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## Deb111

Step Mummy - was hubby's scan 13th or 18th? Seem to have 2 dates and I'm confused (which is easily done!! :dohh:)

If he's had it, I hope it went well and gave you some answers, if he hasn't, hoping it all goes well xx


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## Step Mummy

Hi ladies, we had the scan yesterday, sorry I did mention the wrong date, we have the pre-op meeting on 18th. The scan was no good really - it showed nothing at all - no probems, no blockages, everything is doing what is should everything looks normal. So it is all a mystery. I am thinking that surely if there is nothing wrong, then this is pointing to him not producing the sperm. However the doctor who did the scan said that his balls have not shrunk, which normally shows that a man is not producing sperm. So that is a little hope.

The op is booked for the 1st September, but I am thinking we are heading towards a bad result, If he is producing them then surley the would be coming out?!?!

Unfortunately he can't get his head around a donor, but I think he might change if we do get a bad result, otherwise he is asking me never to have a baby, and I can't do that! I have looked after his son for the last ten years, so - how can I find the words without sounding horrible - so this would be like him looking after a baby that was mine, but of course it wouldn't be just mine it would be ours - his, even if not biologically! But of course this isn't the dream - I want his child no anyone elses!

Anyway onwards with the waiting game!!!

How are things going with you?


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## Deb111

It's so frustrating when nothing is showing up one way or the other. Have they checked his urine straight after he gives a semen sample? I read somewhere that there can be a problem with a valve I think and the sperm are released into the bowel instead.

I have to say I agree with you about raising your hubby's son. But the difference here would be that it was something you embarked on together. Ok it wouldn't biologically be his child, but he would be there from the minute you conceived, the scans, through the whole pregnancy, the birth, it's first smile, it's first words etc. It would grow up with both yours and your husbands values. I can't help but feel that has to be less of a challenge than someone bringing up someone else's child from part way through their lives :shrug:

Sending you lots of hugs - we all know what a difficult time this is for you xx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Deb, thanks for your comforting words, I know - as always, think positive and hope for the best.

Yes he has done all the blood tests etc. They have not checked the urine, but I read about that, but he gets - stuff - coming out, and there is a good amout, so I don't think it applies - but thanks for the idea

Good luck to you too!


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## waitingginger

Hi
Ladies just read all the back posts and although i wouldnt wish what we are going through on anybody in the world it is a comfort having people out there going through the same thing!! i know that may sound so horrible and selfish!!

Well here is my story:
Me 25 W 27 we have been TTC for 2 years now. i had bloods, scans, HCG etc and everything was coming back ok. I broached the subject with W about getting his sperm tested something which i expected to be a lot harder then it was but he just went along with. I think we both knew there was going to be an issue with him because we were doing everything so right and i was fine and OVing really regular.
I think it was in june both SA came back with 0 sperm. 
we had an appointment with the urologist end of july who felt around and took some bloods. he said everything felt normal as apparently testicles can sometimes have different textures! W has a thing that his 'balls' are small. (i have read about this online and what it can mean but havent told him) but the urologist said they were normal sized! but tbh honest i kind of dont know whether to belive him or not as he said he couldnt really tell us much just referred us for a scan and then told us to go back to GP to get refferred to Queens Marys fertility clinic in Manchester.

so this is where we are at at the moment: Ultrasound scan booked for fri 3rd Sept
then back to GP for joint referral to fertility clinic.

The only thing that i am annoyed about is the blood results will of gone back to the GP by now and W keeps saying he is too busy to phone up for them!! slightly annoying but not much we can do with what they say anyway not going to push him will just wait for scan results i think!!!

W has become very worried about my safety and what people are thinking about him. He has been getting very upset about not producing any sperm and also said he isnt a real man and just wants the chance to have 1 child. he gets really upset whenever his 4 month old nephew is around and most times has to leave the room when i am holding him. 

Has anyone else gone from urologist to fertility clinic? i am wondering who will do the SSR? W had 1 undecended testicle he had pulled down when he was 7 but other then that nothing no mumps. no major groin injuries etc. urologist was interested in the fact he had been on a life support machine when he was about 13 after falling off a rope swing and was in a coma for a few days. but then didnt say anything about why he was interested?!

sorry rambled on for a long time there!! i just feel like we dont really know what is going on sometimes!! 

Thanks for listening!!!! hope you are all well!!
x x


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## Flake-y

Hi there; I remember your posts from a couple of months ago; wondered how you were getting on!

It is totally frustrating not knowing, I know how you feel. We were lucky in that our urologist was a male infertility specialist & knew loads about it. DH's testicles were normal sized & he expected to get sperm, but there wasn't any. It's sertoli cell only sundrome that he has, either from birth or from the severe mumps he had.

Hope you get some answers soon, just keep phoning & pestering them; I did!!!


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## Flake-y

Oh Deb, so you can update the front page!

Donor sperm on its way, IUI starts 6th September!!!


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## Deb111

Hi ginger

Welcome to a great group that no one wants to be a member of!

My hubby saw a urologist at the fertility clinic and it will be the urologist who does the SSR.

Hoping that you get soem answers soon x


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## waitingginger

lol! think thats a good description of the group!!

Urologist said we wouldnt be seeing him again but was thinking thats maybe because the fertility clinic is such a big one
This is their website and it is unbeliveably helpful i am feeling full of positvity now they will be able to help us:
https://www.cmft.nhs.uk/directorates/ivf/firstreatment.asp 

 x


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## Deb111

Front page updated girls x


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## loobylou_01

We also saw a urologist, but to be honest although he was very nice it wasn't very useful. He checked DH's testicles and said they seemed normal and did hormone blood test and ordered U/S scan which showed nothing to note, and in the meantime our GP referred us to the fertility clinic, we saw them very quickly and then started the road towards the IVF with SSR on day of egg collection. We were lucky, it's all happened quickly for us, just waiting to poas now!

Jo - you start on the 6th Sept? That has to be a good sign for you, it'll be our 2nd wedding anniversary! 

xxx


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## Flake-y

loobylou_01 said:


> We also saw a urologist, but to be honest although he was very nice it wasn't very useful. He checked DH's testicles and said they seemed normal and did hormone blood test and ordered U/S scan which showed nothing to note, and in the meantime our GP referred us to the fertility clinic, we saw them very quickly and then started the road towards the IVF with SSR on day of egg collection. We were lucky, it's all happened quickly for us, just waiting to poas now!
> 
> Jo - you start on the 6th Sept? That has to be a good sign for you, it'll be our 2nd wedding anniversary!
> 
> xxx

Really? Excellent! Plus, a pretty amazing wedding anniversary for you if you get a bfp just before it!!!


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## Deb111

Step Mummy - just stopping by to wish you all the best for hubby's op. Praying that you both get the news you so long for xx


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## loobylou_01

Good luck for tomorrow Step Mummy, hope you get some good news, will be thinking of you.

Well as most of you girls know, we tested on Friday and got a BFP! Official test was yesterday, done 7 tests so far still not convinced! And got 1st scan booked for 23rd Sept, please go fast september?!

Hope everyone else okay?? xxx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Loubylou, great news, well done, I hope the tests are correct!

Thanks to you all for your best wishes, DH has gone in this morning, but they would not let me wait, so I have come in to work to try to kill some time, I cant wait to hear from the hospital to tell me he has come round, you always worry about something going wrong.

Hi waiting ginger - welcome to the club!! It sounds as though you have a similar story to me, however my DH has a 18yr old son, so we know that they were there once! But he has nothing coming out at all, the scan showed nothing up, and the specialists cannot find anything. Good luck with his scan on Friday, I hope you get told something, as we got told there was nothing at all wrong, everything was normal, I was hoping that they'd find something like a blockage so that this would indicate the sperm are there. Dont tell your DH, but my DH said that having the probe put up his bum was not very nice and a bit painful, I think they used the same internal ultrasound scanner that they use on us ladies!! but he did not like it at all and said it was quite uncomfortable (but he does have a low pain threshold!), however he was only in there for 10-15 mins, so its not too long. I know that the recovery from his op will be much much worse, poor thing. I just hope it is worth his pain. Like you my DH has taken it badly that he can't give me a baby naturally, especially when he already had one and he kept me waiting for 6 years!!!

I guess like me you have struggled to deal with not being able to get pregnant naturally now, and that the only way you will have one is through the hospital, and that is the best we can hope for. Otherwise we have to make the decision about a Donor, which for us is seeming like a very hard path, as DH is not keen on that at all.

Good luck for Friday, I hope you get some positive news - whatever that may be! I will let you all know how I get on,
XXX


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## Deb111

That's so tough that you can't hang around. I'm a dreadful worrier about things going wrong too but your hubby will come through this fine. I really hope they have some good news for you and don't keep you waiting too long! :hugs:


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## Deb111

Any news StepMummy? Hope hubby is ok after his op xx :hugs:


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, we got bad news I'm afraid, the op went well, except the op was 1 hour long instead of the normal 30 mins. They had a good dig around to find the sperm and have discovered that he has a problem where he is producing the sperm but they are not maturing nor are they coming out. This could be something that would have happened anyway or could be due to something "environmental" (whatever that means!") but has obviously happened in later life. There is nothing that they can do. Also while he was in there they found a "Lesion" which they have taken away for testing and we have to wait 5 days for the results on that too, so we are now worried about this, my DH always thinks the worst on these things and is thinking about the big "C", but if it is a lesion, thats just tissue growth hopefully, but one of the doctors we spoke to on the phone today mentioned lump - which scared him even more!

We are now waiting for the results of that!

We don't know what to tell people, because if we tell them he has no sperm and we go for the donor route, we don;t know who to tell, I would only tell parents and borthers and sisters, as you would never want friends to know that, but its difficult trusting them to such abig secret, and if it gets out later, how does this all affect the child - do you tell the child - one million questions!!! So at the moment we are telling everyone we have not got the results yet, while we think about what to say. We have an appointment at the IVF clinic to discuss donor, but thats not until 13th Sept, we hope that they will give us guidance on what to say to people, but what do we do in the meantime!!!

Anyway we are considering Donor, but I don't know if I want that, but I know its our only choice. I think this has not really hit met yet, I know I am sad about something, but in the back of my mind I am still thinking about my DH's baby and not someone elses!

I will keep you informed, I hope you all get some better news soon to cheer me up!!!


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## Deb111

I'm so sorry hun :hugs: and to have the extra worries too, must be awful for you.

How is hubby physically?

I think Flake-y and Looby-Lou are the ones who will be able to better answer your questions about the donor thing. My feeling is that if the results are bad when hubby has his, we will only tell immediate family. Other people don't need to know especially if we take the donor route - Like you - I wouldn't want everyone knowing and giving their opinions.

Thinking of you both xx


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## Flake-y

Hey Stepmummy, so sorry hubby's op didn't go to plan, hope his test results come back with some good news though.

You might have read my earlier posts; my DH had a SSR about 6 weeks ago, and no sperm was found, he is not producing them at all. This is either caused by the severe mumps he had as a teeneger, or from birth, we don't know for sure.

Anyway, we had decided before this if there wasn't any sperm, we would go down the donor route, and we are starting IUI with donor sperm next week.

We will still think of it as our baby, and at least it'll be half 'properly' ours. We've told our parents & my best friend knows, although we fully intend to tell our child as young as possible, as we feel is their right to know, and I'm not good at keeping secrets anyway!!!

If you want to pm me with any questions about using donor sperm, I'd be happy to answer them. I know using a donor isn't for everyone, and believe me, it's not our ideal situation either, but it's either that, adoption or no kids at all, and we're happy with the choice we've made.

You should go on the donor conception network, there's a really nice article written by a man in a similar situation to our hubbies, his wife has just had a baby conceived with donor sperm & it's a really uplifting article, we both found it really helpful.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. Hope you are ok & please feel free to get in touch!!!


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## Step Mummy

thank you both very much for your kind words!

It is hard to deal with and I am worried about his lesion results. But in the meantime I am desperate to tell our immediate family, as like you I am no good a telling lies, the main worry is that someone else will let it slip, my DH's brother is not good at keeping secrets, and I would hate for him to tell one of our friends, who tells another and so on.

I am keen on the Donor idea, I have never had a baby, so like you its the only real option, and I think DH has settled on that too, as he realises he can't ask me to live without a baby and he does want one v much too. I am so glad that he already has a child, so that he has at least had that experience before. I think our main problem is more I am keen to share with those closest, but DH is worried what people will think, after all he is the one who wont be the biological parent not me, and you want the family to accept the child as their neice, nephew grandchild etc, when in fact they won't be, and most of all my step son's brother/sister.

Whatever we do I think we are going to take some time out, once we have DH's biopsy results, assuming that is ok, as we have had such a long time, worrying stressing and thinking of nothing else, we are going on holiday on October, and have agreed to not start the next step until Jan, then hopefully by then I can get myself into good healt, cut down drinking wine, and be ready for the course of drugs etc that is needed.

Thanks again for your help its really appreciated!

XXX


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## Deb111

It's so good to hear you sounding a bit more positive today and great news that hubby is becoming more open to using a donor.

It's hubby I worry about if our news isn't good and we end up using a donor - he just cannot keep ANYTHING to himself - he's just too open and honest with people! I would never want him to feel bad about his azoospermia, but equally, I didn't expect (or want) him to tell virtually everyone we know; not just family but neighbours, friends etc

I'm glad he doesn't feel bad about it, but I keep telling him to be VERY careful - the last thing I would want if we used a donor is every single friend, neighbour etc knowing! I've told him that apart from immediate family, as far as anyone else is concerned, they found sperm (whether they do or not) but I'm not sure he can keep anything to himself !

I think your plans sound great and a holiday will do you the world of good.

Keep your chin up xx


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## loobylou_01

Hi Angela,
Sorry to hear your news and that you're having a really rough time. We also had SSR 3 weeks ago, with my hubby they did actually find some sperm, which we were not expecting at all as they had only given us a 20% chance, however none of it was 'normal' and although they wouldn't say either way whether it would fertilize or not, my dh made the decision to go ahead with the donor sperm that we had lined up, to give us the best possible chance of a BFP - and it worked! We were both resigned that we may have to use the DS, but to be honest when they said that they had found sperm, i would have opted to use DH's very easily, however he was more sensible and i do feel that we have made the right decision, especially now we have found out we're pregnant! It is a really really hard decision to make and one that you don't ever consider however it is so the best thing for us. We are so excited, we both desperately wanted a baby and after trying for 2 years we are so happy. This baby will be ours and we will love it so much, we've just had to do things differently but we are so grateful to the donor. Regarding telling people, only our parents know that we are using the DS, we didn't feel it necessary to tell everyone else, after all it is so personal and what it is to do with anyone else? They are all assuming that sperm was found and that's fine, we have had a few remarks like 'ooh i'm so glad you didn't have to use the donor' but frankly we don't care as our baby is our baby. We haven't talked about telling the baby about the donor since we became pregnant, we will definitely do this but at the minute i don't want to go on about it to DH as he still comes out with terrible things about him being no good etc and i don't want to spoil this time. Last weekend he said to me 'i'll never ever leave you because no one else would ever love me like you do because i've got no sperm and couldn't give anyone children' Suffice to say he got a slap for this! 
But bless them, i think it must one of the hardest things to go through, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. When we found out last December i never expected that we would be pregnant in September.
Take care and look after each other, and i really hope the lesions are nothing.
Linzie xx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, thank you again for your lovely words, and congratulations to Loubylou, you both must be so pleased.

DH is having a tough time, he felt much better on day one and really good on day 2, but yesterday and overnight this morning he has not slept, is feeling a bit flu like and is very uncomfortable. I think that the amount of tablets he has had over the last few days have made him feel rough. The cut is healing well though, and it has finally stopped bleeding. He has really black bruises, but I think because they took over 1 hour to operate on him the really had a good dig around and had to take the biopsy! Poor thing. Also he has not mentioned not being able to have a baby and does not want to talk about it, the only real thing that he has said is when he told me at the hospital that he wanted to go for the donor route. He is more worried about the lession, which is fair enough, I am too, but I would like to chat to him about the results as I have no-one except you ladies, as we have told everyone we are still waiting for results. I think because we are telling people this, its like we partly believe that! As you say I am giving him lots of cuddles, running around after him and giving him lots of love, but without him talking about it its hard to reassure him! How long was the recovery process for you DH??

I just want to have the results of the biopsy with good news, and tell my mum and dad and sister in laws then I think we can start to focus on more positive things and start to look forward.

I am so pleased that you and your DH were able to make such a quick and sure decision, I wish we could have but we did not want to consider that route really until we had no choice I suppose.

Its great news that you are now on the home run, and you have completed the hardest part of the journey, now you and your DH have the fun stuff to look foward to, sharing the great news, everyone will be so pleased for you after such a long time!

Thanks and good luck and look after yourself and your bean!
XXX


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## Flake-y

Hey Angela,

Mt DH took quite a while to recover from his SSR too; the urologist had said he would only be out of sorts for a couple of days, but he had the SSR on the tuesday, was ok on the wed/thurs, just a bit sore & uncomfortable, but on the Friday when I went back to work, I came home to find that he had only moved from the couch once, to crawl to the fridge for a small carton of orange juice. He didn't eat properly for a couple of days, and on the Sunday night I told him that if he wasn't improving by the Monday, he would have to go stay with his Mum & Dad, cause I had to go back to work & I didn't want to leave him all day if he wasn't going to eat or drink anything.

That seemed to spur him on cause he was much better by the beginning of the next week.

I think it was the op, combined with the shock of there being no sperm that made him so unwell. I just tried to act as normal as possible around him; and his mum & dad came round with takeaways etc to try & cheer him up!

Hope your DH feels better over the next couple of days, just keep giving him lots of TLC!!!


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## waitingginger

Hi Ladies

First of all congratulations Loobyloo!! that is brilliant news!!! 

Step mummy i am sorry you have had the bad news about finding no sperm!! OH had his ultrasound although no mention of anythign up the bum!! i am not going to mention that to him incase he has to have it done at the fertility clinic!! he would not be impressed lol!!! they didnt find any blockages either but kept saying things were flowing what ever that means! i wasnt allowed in so couldnt ask any questions!!! 

were not really too sure how to take the news of no blockages as in someways that would be the easiest thing to deal with! but when he had is SA results they did say there were a few sperms too few to count and were dead?! not sure what that means! GP once results come back and referral to fertility clinic where i am sure we will repeat a million tests all over again!!! 

we have also not been able to discuss the donor sperm properly i think he has this thing about it being somebody elses child! which is heartbreaking for me! i cant live without a child and want him to love a donor baby just as much!! i would also be tempted to not tell a single sole so that they would be none the wiser! but no its not the way to do things!! 
x


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## Flake-y

I'd think if they found one sperm in the SA, even if it was dead, then that means he is producing them somewhere? Did the urologist give you any ideas?


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## waitingginger

nope urologist was really useless said he didnt know why we had come to see him?! he examined OH and got his nurse to take some blood and referred us for the ultrasound and then said to go back to our GP and ask to be reffered to an actual fertility clinic!! 
I dont think urologist had a copy of the SA results different hospital!! i am going to ask for copies of everything i think so that i am ready and armed when we go to see a consultant!!!


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## Flake-y

Omg what a rubbish urologist!!! That's not the kind of service you'd expect when you get referred to a so-called 'expert'!!!


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## Step Mummy

We have had the week from hell! Things got from bad to worse over the weekend and by Monday DH was feeling really really ill, and in pain. I am not writing this to scare the hell out of you all, but I want to encourage you all to ask a lot more questions and find out what to expect and what things to look for if things are going wrong. I know I have read a lot of posts where guys have the SSR and are back to normal within a few days, unfortunately we are not one of those, but things could have been a lot easier and less upsetting, if I had know what to look for and who to contact. I am sorry, this is a really long post!:wacko:

DH had the op on Wednesday 1st Sept, on Friday he was feeling really well, he was eating, downstairs, even sat in the garden and did some canvas painting! He was quite swollen which we expected. 

Saturday he started to feel Flu'y but the swelling had gone down, Sunday worse.

Monday- much worse, one ball now 3 x the size of normal, he felt like he had proper flu without cold part, but he was in much more pain. I called the hospital but no-one would speak to me - I had to go to the doctor, had the normal challenge to get an emergency appt, this was then booked for 3.50 that afternoon, but at 3pm, DH went for a wee and could barely make it to the ensuite, he was wincing/growling in agony. I called the GP again and had to beg the unhelpful receptionist to get someone to call me back, which they did and they told him to take double the dose of the Ibuprophen just so he could get in to the doctors!! Which we did and he managed to get there -DR said it looked like an infection and gave him antibiotics, did not comment on the flu'y symptoms!

Tuesday, worse still, but waiting for the antibiotics to kick in. Tuesday 9pm, he was really ill, now being sick, still swollen 4 x the normal size - really red, feeling worse flu like, could barely move, I tried to call the hospital, every 11 of the numbers I had were all office hours, I tried the doctor but constantly engaged, I am now crying my eyes out! I had to search on the internet to get the NHS Direct number, called them - poor lady had to deal with me trying to explain whilst crying!!! She did well and said someone would call me back in about 1 hour!!! "What I need someone now"! Bless her she went and got a nurse to talk to me. This finally calmed me down as she gently explained, that the flu symptoms are part of the infection so to be execpted, not something else as we were thinking, the sickness is due to taking Co-codamol for so long, so stop taking them and use paracetamol instead, the swelling should go down or at least be the same at 48 hours after starting to take the antibiotics. They then got our out of hours GP to call me back, she was prepared to do a house visit, but we decided there was nothing more that could be done then.

He is now much better, we had a check up yesterday, the swelling is now gone down to nearly normal size, and a week later he has finally made it back downstairs and is a bit more mobile. Thank god, it has been the worst week of my life, I am absolutely nackered, I have hardly slept, and feel like I have not stopped running around after him and trying to work from home in between!
 
If we had known what the symptoms were of an infection, I think we could have picked this up on Saturday, and he would not have gotten so bad. The hospital just seemed to kick you out and give you Ibuprophen and Co-codamol and say take it as per the packet says. This was not sufficient pain killers, as there are not enough tables to make it through the day! They send you away with no "what to expect" "how it should look" "What to look for if things are going wrong" and "who to contact" - nothing. 

I am writing this to encourage all of you who are heading for this op, to really plan ahead and ask for as much info as possible - and take notes so you can confidently refer to it later. It is very unlikely you wil lhave the same experience as me, as I am sure most guys are back to work within the week. But you need to be prepared for - what if things aren't healing like they should. We went into this far too casually, thinking it would be an easiy ride with a couple of days of pain I couldn't have been more wrong. You need to ask who you can contact, day or night if you have a question, how it should look after a few days, and what to look for if things aren't normal. What you can do to increase the pain killers, and what side effects come from taking them for several days. You also may want to consider sleeping seperately so he can spread his legs out, you may also want to tell your job that if things do go wrong you could be off work too for over a week. Also have someone locally who can help you if things get too much for you, I could really have done with someone to call that night for support and help and another pair of eyes! And someone who could have dealt with my husband less histerically - as I expect I did not help him!

Please don't feel scared by my experience (remember if you don't have the op - you will never know!), the worst of my experience was not being prepared, if I could have expected some of this, it would have been much easier to deal with and we could have dealt things quicker. Just take my advice and ask the questions, and even if he doesn't recover so quickly, then at least you are prepared.

I am just so pleased now that we are (Hopefully) on the home run now, we are even venturing out of the house this afternoon!

Good luck to you all, and fingers crossed you get the result you are all looking for.

If you want to ask any questions, then please do I am happy to help anyway I can.

With best wishes to you all
Angela
XXX


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## Deb111

Hi Angela

So sorry you and hubby have had such an awful week - it must have been dreadful especially on top of everything else you're dealing with right now. I've always been really worried about something going wrong.

Our pre op SSR info appt was pretty good and the nurse was very good at explaining what to expect etc, but I appreciate the info you have given and I have talked to hubby about it. I'm not into hiding things from him and have always said it's his decision whether he wants to have the SSR or not. It hasn't put him off luckily and as he says - I'm such a neurotic worrier that he'll only have to wince one too many times and I'll be on the phone to the Dr! :dohh:

Anyway, thanks again for the info and I hope hubby is getting better each day. When do you get more news about the lesions? Thinking of you both xx


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## Flake-y

Angela; what an awful time for you & ur DH!

My DH was quite unwell afterwards too, not an infection, but just took more out of him than we thought.

Our urologist gave him antibiotics to take for 3 days as well as co-codamol & tramadol, so I knew he didn't have an infection but was still worried nevertheless.

The hosp we went to was also crap, we had to actually ask if DH was to take any medications, they just gave us the bag of meds & said nothing about aftercare. In fact, I actually had to phone the hospital the next day to find out if it was ok for him to have a shower & remove the support strap thing he had on.

I have vowed never, ever to go back to that hosp, the care was appalling!!

Hope ur DH is feeling much better now & is on the road to recovery!!!


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## Dancergirl

Deb111 said:


> I asked our clinic about testing for fructose but they said it's not something they test for!!?!?! :shrug:
> 
> Also found this info - not sure if you are aware of it -
> 
> "Lastly, your husband should ejaculate and then have the urine following ejaculation tested for the presence of sperm. If there is sperm in his urine, this could indicate that the entry to the bladder isn't closing properly, and is therefore allowing the semen to flow into the bladder."
> 
> Again - it's not somehing our clinic investigate. They say the only way to really know is to do the SSR - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that hubby wont be going through it all for nothing.
> 
> Someone recommended a book to me - which I haven't got round to getting yet, but may be some interest to you
> 
> "Helping The Stork, the choices and challenges of donor insemination by Carol Frost Vercollone M.S.W, Heidi Moss M.S.W and Robert Moss P.H.D."

Deb, it has been awhile since I have been on here, but I got the book you suggested and have read it. I loved how I could relate to so much in that book. So many of the feeling myself and my husband have been feeling were discussed in that book. We actually read it together on a long road trip. It really helped me think about our options with Donor sperm. So thanks again and I would recommend it to others deciding if DS is a right choice for them. It also discusses ways others have dealt with deciding who to tell and tell the child or not.

After two unsuccessful IUI attempts with DS, we took a few months off to emotionally recharge. We are trying it again this next cycle... We are really hoping it works this time.


----------



## Deb111

Glad the book was of use. I haven't read it yet, but will definitely look it out if we don't get good news next month.

Wishing you loads of luck for your next IUI cycle xx


----------



## april4jdg

Hi, My husband was diagnosed with azoospermia on his very first SA... He has an appt with a urologist later this month...We hadnt had sex for over a month before the SA was done...could this be a cause of azoospermia? I tried looking online, but can't find anything...


----------



## Deb111

Sorry hun, from what we've been told, that wont be the cause of the azoospermia. It may be a cause of them not being great swimmers etc, but not of no sperm at all. He should have a repeat test done though and also ask them to check for fructose.

Good luck xx


----------



## april4jdg

It is so hard finding info on azoospermia... Seems like all the IF books are geared towards women, and MFI is not spoken of much...

Our RE told us to go to the urologist, and then after that make another in office visit with her so we could talk about the steps to take next...I think we will be going the IVF/ICSI route...

We tried 11 months- and against the advice of my ob/gyn, we went to an RE...My ob/gyn said to try 2 years...then seek help... I am so glad I did, because all along it was MFI...

I just hope if we have to do TESA, that we find some swimmers...

I have an HSG tomorrow at 1:45- but every test I have had has come back normal, at this point it is strictly MFI....

I just hope they find some swimmers
DH and I have already decided against donor sperm
the next step would be adoption

Seems like we have been in the dark for the past 11 months, and the last 2 weeks has been LIFE ALTERING
I hope y'all do not mind me posting here-I know I am not a regular poster- yet... It is nice to talk to people that actually know about azoospermia...

:flower:


----------



## april4jdg

I notice most of you all are from England...Is the baby and bump website based out of England? It has been a dream of mine to visit England one day!!! I constantly watch bbc/america shows, have always wanted to go- maybe one day!!!

I am a a cosmetology instructor, and when I worked in the salon before becoming an educator, most of my clients were from the UK... Everything about the UK interests me, the people, the accents, the culture, the food, the landscape...Maybe I will get to go one day!!!
:plane:


----------



## hulahoops04

Hi everyone,
My husband was diagnosed with azoospermia in July and this has since been confirmed with a further SA. We have an appointment with a Urologist specialising in infertility tomorrow. We decided to have the initial consultation privately as our NHS appointment came for January, however we won't be able to go private for any further treatment. Does anyone happen to know how much SSA is privately? We have our first appointment at the infertility clinic on 1st Oct.

I have no idea what the best way is to cope with this. My husband is clinging onto the hope that they will find some sperm there, but I have a strong feeling this will not be the case. I am also a midwife, so my life at the moment is extremely tough, delivering babies and being asked if I have any children on a daily basis! I just hope the whole process doesn't take too long!

Nice to hear we are not the only ones out there :cry: xxx


----------



## Deb111

Hi Hula and welcome :flower:

I'm sorry you are going through this and it must be SO hard doing the job you do :hugs:

I know that although we are going through the NHS, it doesn't cover the SSR op and we have to pay £900, but others have gone privately and will be able to give you a better idea of the private cost.

We too, don't feel there is much hope of finding sperm, but we feel we have to try :cry:

I hope you're journey isn't too long and that the urologist appt tomorrow is helpful. Ask him about doing a test for fructose (apparently fructose in the SA suggests there isn't a blockage). Also ask about them taking a urine sample straight after the sperm sample as apparently there can be a valve problem where the sperm are released into the bladder instead. Our FS doesn't do either of these tests, but no harm in asking.

Good luck and keep us posted xx


----------



## Deb111

Check out amazon if you haven't already - I haven't read any of the books, but there seem quite a few on male infertility and alot of them give you the option to see the contents page to see if they mention azoospermia xx


----------



## Deb111

april4jdg said:


> It is so hard finding info on azoospermia... Seems like all the IF books are geared towards women, and MFI is not spoken of much...
> 
> Our RE told us to go to the urologist, and then after that make another in office visit with her so we could talk about the steps to take next...I think we will be going the IVF/ICSI route...
> 
> We tried 11 months- and against the advice of my ob/gyn, we went to an RE...My ob/gyn said to try 2 years...then seek help... I am so glad I did, because all along it was MFI...
> 
> I just hope if we have to do TESA, that we find some swimmers...
> 
> I have an HSG tomorrow at 1:45- but every test I have had has come back normal, at this point it is strictly MFI....
> 
> I just hope they find some swimmers
> DH and I have already decided against donor sperm
> the next step would be adoption
> 
> Seems like we have been in the dark for the past 11 months, and the last 2 weeks has been LIFE ALTERING
> I hope y'all do not mind me posting here-I know I am not a regular poster- yet... It is nice to talk to people that actually know about azoospermia...
> 
> :flower:

You're very welcome here april. I'm surprised they're doing an HSG at this stage. I haven't had one as it's irrelevant if you're going to be having IVF / ICSI. Wishing you the best of luck for tomorrow.

We were in the dark for 18 months. I always felt something wasn't right but everyone told me to relax and stop stressing about it. Well I'm glad I didn't listen and finally managed to get hubby to come to the Dr's with me.

It really is so hard to deal with. It seems so unfair :cry:

We're waiting for hubby's SSR op in October. they would have done it in August but we wanted to put him on whatever supplements we could and give it the standard 3 months for them to affect any new sperm. We know it wont change anything if there are none there, but if they do find any, we want them to be as good as they possibly can xx


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## april4jdg

All my tests are fine- but they say that the HSG is standard- I guess just another way for them to make more $$$.

My doc prescribed the clomid and HCG, at our first visit, but when azoospermia showed up on the SA in the results from our initial tests, she said to stop, because all my levels are fine except his FSH was 17.5 and she said it was slightly elevated, and that the next step was a urologist and then talked about the different types of azoospermia...and then ivf/ icsi through TESA...

DH says he is willing to do whatever it takes...


----------



## loobylou_01

Welcome Hula!

Sorry that you have to join us in this thread, working as you do must make this even more difficult to deal with, i know i have found it very hard (i'm a nurse) but it does get better.

We found out about the azoospermia last December, we have been very lucky and had our first ivf cycle in august with ssr combined into the cycle. unfortunately although they found sperm it was all abnormal and they didn't give us any hope of it being successful therefore we continued the cycle with donor sperm and am delighted to say that i am pregnant! about 6 and a bit weeks, got a scan next week so hoping everthing is okay.

Flakey is the best to ask about the cost of ssr, we've been lucky and ours was covered on the nhs, but i think that they paid privately. Again with our treatment we have been lucky, our clinic doesn't have a nhs list you can just start as soon as the funding is sorted. So we were massively lucky, we first saw them at the end of march and i started the injections the middle of july, our biggest wait was for a donor sperm match.

Anyway i've gone a bit, but lots of luck with the appointment tomorrow, keep us posted please xxx


----------



## april4jdg

the hardest thing is that my sister is 10 weeks pregnant with twins, however that was achieved through the same ART clinic...as was her now 3 year old daughter, so I hope we have a little luck...

But DH's appointment is on the 27th, and I am driving myself crazy...it can't get here soon enough...


----------



## Flake-y

hulahoops04 said:


> Does anyone happen to know how much SSA is privately?
> 
> Nice to hear we are not the only ones out there :cry: xxx

Hi hula, sorry to head about DH's diagnosis, we have all been there & know exactly how hard it is. 

To give you an idea of cost, we went private for the urologist appt; we were referred in march, and at the beginning of may I phoned the urologist's secretary to find out how long his appt would be, and was told it would be july/august at the earliest! And that was just for the initial consultation. So we decided to go private from there; we were going to anyway, cause the IVF/ICSI waiting lists in scotland are 2 years.

Anyway, within a week we had an appointment with the urologist, who thought it was likely to be a blockage, cause everything looked normal, testicle size, FSH levels etc.

DH had the SSR 2 months later, after I had an ovarian reserve & compulsory blood tests. It cost £2500, very expensive I know, but luckily our parents have massively helped out with the cost. I think it was so dear cause DH had a general anaesthetic.

Unfortunately, there was no sperm, but we're going with the donor option, & I'm having IUI this weekend. We were upset at first, but we're just excited now to be parents, the donor thing doesn't bother us at all anymore, we've completely got used to the idea.

Anyway, sorry for the novel, lots of luck for ur urologist appointment, and hope if you do decide to go private, it doesn't cost too much!:hugs:


----------



## Dancergirl

Feeling pretty discouraged tonight as it seems like many of my friends around me are pregnant. 

We have told a few close friends and a few immediate family members about our using DS for our IUIs, but for the most part everyone (not knowing my husband has no sperm)tells me to relax and it will happen. Because hey, it happened for them.

Any advice on what you all do when it feels like you have hit rock bottom and your longing for children takes up all your thoughts. 

Really hoping next IUI works for us, but hate to get my hopes up just to have them crushed down like the last two times.

Also, others trying IUI with DS..... what do your Dr's have you doing throughout the cycle? I have been put on clomid, have multiple ultrasounds, do home ovuation kits, then go in the day after my positive test for the insemination. I am interested in what else we should/could be doing? My dr. said we would try IUI with clomid pill two more times before we start clomid injections.


----------



## april4jdg

I have my HSG at 1:45 pm today... I hope it is over quick!


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## Deb111

Dancergirl said:


> Any advice on what you all do when it feels like you have hit rock bottom and your longing for children takes up all your thoughts.


I wish I had the answer for you - I feel like I'm pretty much at rock bottom at the moment and just don't seem to be able to drag myself out of it. I'm angry at the world and on the verge of tears all the time. I really don't know how I dragged myself out of bed for work today. I know that's of no help to you, but just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. Why don't you set yourself up a journal and then at least you can come on here and vent when things get bad. Sometimes it just helps to get it all written down.

Hope you start to feel better soon xx :hugs2:


----------



## Deb111

april4jdg said:


> I have my HSG at 1:45 pm today... I hope it is over quick!

How did it go April? Hope you're feeling ok xx


----------



## april4jdg

Oh-it is 11:00 am here in the USA-I am in the CST timezone and I live in Alabama-so It won't be for another few hours...thanks for asking-I will let you know how it is though...soon!


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## Dancergirl

It is nice to know I am not alone. Often I feel alone because people don't really talk about using a donor when discussing getting pregnant. I have a journal, but quit writing in it because it seemed to be all negative, but maybe I will try that again. Thank you Deb. Best of luck with the SSR you are awaiting.


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## hulahoops04

Well we saw the urologist today who was really good. He said he thinks we have a very high chance of retrieving sperm as there appears to be a blockage. Fingers crossed, but he said we have a good case to get the SSR covered on the NHS. So finally we have some good news!

Its so difficult because I don't want to be too pleased as we obviously have a long way to go yet, with actually retrieving the sperm and IVF. But its a start and one step closer to our own :baby:


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## Deb111

That's positive news hun :thumbup:

On what did they base that information?  I only ask as most people seem to have had more 'tests' done than my hubby :shrug: Did he have a scan?

Have they given you a time scale for the SSR?

Really pleased you're feeling more positive xx


----------



## Flake-y

Dancergirl said:


> Also, others trying IUI with DS..... what do your Dr's have you doing throughout the cycle? I have been put on clomid, have multiple ultrasounds, do home ovuation kits, then go in the day after my positive test for the insemination. I am interested in what else we should/could be doing? My dr. said we would try IUI with clomid pill two more times before we start clomid injections.

Hello, we're doing IUI with DS too, I was on letrozole (femara) for 5 days, then 3 days without, had an ultrasound scan on Monday & I've to go back Thursday when they will hopefully give me the trigger then the IUI on Fri or Sat.

From what I've read, every clinic seems to do it differently, think it also depends if there are any female issues; I've got no probs apart from mild pcos; they originally wanted to do a natural cycle but cause my cycles are so long & I never know when I'm going toovulate, they chose to give me the letrozole.

We'll do the IUI 3 times before we go on to IVF. Hopefully it won't get that far but I know the odds for IUI aren't brilliant, my dr said 25% for me.

Lots of luck for your next IUI cycle!


----------



## Flake-y

hulahoops04 said:


> Well we saw the urologist today who was really good. He said he thinks we have a very high chance of retrieving sperm as there appears to be a blockage. Fingers crossed, but he said we have a good case to get the SSR covered on the NHS. So finally we have some good news!
> 
> Its so difficult because I don't want to be too pleased as we obviously have a long way to go yet, with actually retrieving the sperm and IVF. But its a start and one step closer to our own :baby:

That sounds very promising; did he do any tests, or just an examination? Ours told us it looked like a blockage too, & all the tests came back normal but there was no sperm. 

DO you know how long you'll have to wait for the SSR? Just out of interest, are you in Scotland too?


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## Deb111

Out of interest, what tests did your hubby's all have before the SSR?

Terry's just had blood tests and a 20 second physical examination :shrug:


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## Flake-y

Deb111 said:


> Out of interest, what tests did your hubby's all have before the SSR?
> 
> Terry's just had blood tests and a 20 second physical examination :shrug:

Same, our urologist did a physical exam, said they were normal sized, he took a full medical history & did all the blood tests, chromosome, FSH etc, which all came back normal!

The poor urologist was expecting to get sperm & he didn't; think he was very surprised & felt quite bad!!! Hmf!!!

He said it was only a testicular biopsy that could diagnose the condition that caused K to have no sperm, so any other tests he did would have come back normal too.


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## Dancergirl

Thank you for your response Flake-y. They also gave us a 25% chance, but told us if we do the injections than it will boost up to about 37% chance of the IUI working. 

My cycle is very regular and everything looks great with me except my progesterone level was low, but the clomid has made that level sky rocket. 

Good luck with your IUI this week!!!


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## Flake-y

37% is very good! Hope it works for you this time.


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## april4jdg

oh- I had the HSG done and the radiologist said everything was clear-He even called one of the nurses over to look at "the beautiful, perfect spillage from both sides" 
So weird...anyway I am all clear- next up DH to the urologist to for an exam because of the azoospermia.


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## Deb111

That's great news april. Glad everything is clear :thumbup: xx


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## april4jdg

Just a physical exam?


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## waitingginger

Hi Ladies.
Just checking in, feeling very down also at the minute!! i think its hard when nothing appears to be happening and there are no appointments in sight!

These are the tests my OH has had so far:
2 Sperm Analysis - 0 sperm there was a note saying evidence of dead sperm 
External examination (Urologist)- couldnt feel any blockages everything normal
Ultrasound scan- 'free flow' dont know whether that means no bloackages or they could see sperm!! wasnt allowed in with OH

we now get reffered to a fertility clinic and i am guessing have to do all the tests all over again!! having read some of these posts really hoping OH will get SSR! i am slightly worried now!! x


----------



## loobylou_01

Deb111 said:


> Out of interest, what tests did your hubby's all have before the SSR?
> 
> Terry's just had blood tests and a 20 second physical examination :shrug:

My DH had examination by urologist and bloods done, he referred for a scan which showed no problems, then we saw fertility consultant who did another exam, he gave us 30% chance of finding sperm with the ssr, then straight onto surgery. they did find sperm it was just abnormal xx


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## loobylou_01

hulahoops04 said:


> Well we saw the urologist today who was really good. He said he thinks we have a very high chance of retrieving sperm as there appears to be a blockage. Fingers crossed, but he said we have a good case to get the SSR covered on the NHS. So finally we have some good news!
> 
> Its so difficult because I don't want to be too pleased as we obviously have a long way to go yet, with actually retrieving the sperm and IVF. But its a start and one step closer to our own :baby:

That's fantastic news, really hope there's a big fat blockage stopping the swimmers from getting out!


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## loobylou_01

loobylou_01 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Out of interest, what tests did your hubby's all have before the SSR?
> 
> Terry's just had blood tests and a 20 second physical examination :shrug:
> 
> My DH had examination by urologist and bloods done, he referred for a scan which showed no problems, then we saw fertility consultant who did another exam, he gave us 30% chance of finding sperm with the ssr, then straight onto surgery. they did find sperm it was just abnormal xxClick to expand...

DH had the chromosome blood test too!


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## hulahoops04

He has had blood tests and a few physical exams. The urologist he saw yesterday who specialises in fertility did a physical exam and said he's pretty sure he has no van deferens (the tubes which transport the sperm). He felt that the epididymis is distended in each testicle (which you can definately see i one, but he was earlier told this was a cyst). He has to have one further blood test to see if he is a cystic fibrosis carrier, as this is linked to the absense on van deferens. This would only be a problem though if I were also a carrier.

No dates for SSR. As our appointment with the fertility specialists is on 1 october he said it is best if they organise this so everything will be organised through one speciality, rather than seeing everyone like we have been doing!

So does anyone know what comes next for us? I was hoping they would start giving me hormones at our next appointment to get me ready for IVF. Not sure though if they will wait until the SSR is done first. I really hope not as I just want everything done as quickly as possible as its so difficult waiting.


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## hulahoops04

Hi Flake-y, forgot to add that I'm in Manchester not Scotland. Wish I were though as I love it up there x


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## waitingginger

Hulahoops i am in Manchester too!! whwre about are you? we saw a urologist too who said we would be better dealing with everything through a fertility speacalist! we dont have our date for the fertility specalist yet just waiting on appointment with GP for the referral. Urologist told us to ask for St Marys hospital though! 

Just out of interest how could the urologist tell about the absence of the van deferens? my OH also has what we were told was a cyst! we havent had full report from urologist at doctors yet! wonder if this is something that would be picked up at the ultrasound! its all so confusing i want to make sure we have covered everything! x


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## hulahoops04

We are at St Mary's too, mainly because that is where I am a midwife. You can tell about the absense of van deferens just from a physical exam. My husband said he did have a very good poke around! The urologist we saw yesterday was Dr Payne normally based at the MRI who was really good. It was definately worth the £200 to see him privately, which hopefully will have speeded things up a bit. I would definately recommed him and he explained everything really clearly.


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## waitingginger

the Urologist we saw was at stepping hill in stockport. he said he couldnt do much for us had a feel around and would send a report back to the GP and said to ask our GP to refer us to st Marys. we will know more i suppose when we get all the results and reports and things back. just cant wait to get referred there because feel like we are getting passed from pillar to post! I have had a look at St marys fertility website and they do seem very good!! 

x


----------



## Flake-y

hulahoops04 said:


> He has had blood tests and a few physical exams. The urologist he saw yesterday who specialises in fertility did a physical exam and said he's pretty sure he has no van deferens (the tubes which transport the sperm). He felt that the epididymis is distended in each testicle (which you can definately see i one, but he was earlier told this was a cyst). He has to have one further blood test to see if he is a cystic fibrosis carrier, as this is linked to the absense on van deferens. This would only be a problem though if I were also a carrier.
> 
> No dates for SSR. As our appointment with the fertility specialists is on 1 october he said it is best if they organise this so everything will be organised through one speciality, rather than seeing everyone like we have been doing!
> 
> So does anyone know what comes next for us? I was hoping they would start giving me hormones at our next appointment to get me ready for IVF. Not sure though if they will wait until the SSR is done first. I really hope not as I just want everything done as quickly as possible as its so difficult waiting.

THat's a good sign, no vas deferens, that means that it's more likely that there is sperm in the testicles, but it can't get out. Our urologist had a good feel about & said DH had a vas, that he could feel it. I had a feel about too (!!!!) & I felt a tube that goes from the testicles; think that might be it? I didn't know what I was feeling for though, I was just nosey!!!

I guess it will be the SSR for your DH next; we had that first, although some clinics will do the SSR at the same time as EC. Prob your FS will be able to tell you more. Hope you do't have to wait too long!!!:hugs:


----------



## Dancergirl

My husband had an ultrasound and a physical exam with the urologist. He also has a cyst that they found. The urologist just told him to make sure to get it checked annually to make sure it doesn't turn into anything more serious. But he also told us that the cyst he has doesn't have anything to do with the infertility aspect.


----------



## Deb111

waitingginger said:


> Hi Ladies.
> Just checking in, feeling very down also at the minute!! i think its hard when nothing appears to be happening and there are no appointments in sight!
> 
> These are the tests my OH has had so far:
> 2 Sperm Analysis - 0 sperm there was a note saying evidence of dead sperm
> External examination (Urologist)- couldnt feel any blockages everything normal
> Ultrasound scan- 'free flow' dont know whether that means no bloackages or they could see sperm!! wasnt allowed in with OH
> 
> we now get reffered to a fertility clinic and i am guessing have to do all the tests all over again!! having read some of these posts really hoping OH will get SSR! i am slightly worried now!! x

Hi Amy

The waiting is just horrible and so frustrating!

I don't see why you wouldn't get the SSR. It wasn't even a question with us, but we do have to pay £900 towards it. The ICSI will be free though. The urologist couldn't explain why we have to pay for that bit in our circumstances (not like it's because of a vasectomy for example). We haven't had any funding to apply for. 

Hoping you get some good news soon xx


----------



## Deb111

april4jdg said:


> Just a physical exam?

That's all hubby had done and some blood tests but I think everywhere seems to do things differently xx


----------



## Deb111

hulahoops04 said:


> So does anyone know what comes next for us? I was hoping they would start giving me hormones at our next appointment to get me ready for IVF. Not sure though if they will wait until the SSR is done first. I really hope not as I just want everything done as quickly as possible as its so difficult waiting.

Most clinics seem to do the SSR first and then will start you on the meds when you either know you have sperm to use, or decide on a donor. Some do the EC and SSR on the same day (like Loobylou) but you would have to have made the decision to use a donor and have one lined up ready else your ICSI prep could all be for nothing otherwise


----------



## Deb111

Thanks for the info ladies :flower:

I was just concerned (with the other problems we've had at our clinic) that they weren't doing all the test they could be beforehand and that would have raised issues about how good they were. We were discussing having the SSR done privately last night as we didn't want to get told there were no sperm and then doubt the clinics competence and always be wondering. So I emailed a private clinic last night and asked what tests they would do before an SSR in azoospermia cases. They told me exactly the same tests as huby has had done so it put my mind at rest a bit.

Just seems there are so many tests that could at least give an indication that haven't been done ... ultrasound, fructose, urine :shrug:


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## Deb111

OMG just noticed my ticker ... it suddenly seems to have shot from 2 months to just over 1!!!! Where did those 3 weeks go?!?! :argh:


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## Deb111

If anyone has any appt dates etc that they want putting on front page, please let me know and I will update. Haven't kept a very good track of things lately sorry xx


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## Dancergirl

Can someone explain the journal thing? I am so new to this site and don't understand exactly how things all work, but would love to learn more?


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## Deb111

If you want to set up a journal, it's just like an online diary but people will pop in and write in it too, just go to https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-ac-journals/ click on 'new thread' and add your journal just like you would add a new question or message, choose a name for your journal and away you go.

Can't remember off the top of my head how to add your journal link to your signature but will post later with that info, if no one else beats me to it :thumbup:


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## Flake-y

Appointment dates to add! IUI tomorrow morning at 11.30!!!


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## waitingginger

ahhh! Jo i am guessing you will of had your IUI by now so exciting! hope all goes well!! let us know!!

Well W had an ultrasound done on 2nd September and yesterday had a letter from the 'Consultant Urological Surgeon' who carried out the ultrasound reading
'Your ultrasound scan of the scrotal contents was normal and your serum testosterone was normal. I have written a letter of referral to the North Western fertility expert, Mr Stephen Payne at Manchester Royal Infirmary/St Mary's Hospital. He will see you shortly and will be taking over your mangement. You are in very capable hands and i hope all goes well'

i have been so down this week and then to get this letter yesterday i feel like things are moving forward at last!! Hulahoops Dr Payne is the same doctor you saw isnt it?!!
dont have a date for first consultation yet but will perhaps leave it 3-4 weeks then phone his secretary or something and see if they know anything!

also would an ultrasound show sperm swimming around 'scrotal contents was normal' seems a strange phrase if you cant see sperm?! but dont know whether to be more worried there isnt obviously something wrong as this would be easier to fix??!!

Oh i dont know what to think! Hope you are all having a good weekend!! oh has just phoned me after his footy match saying i am just going to watch the first half of the match in the pub then will come home... me: 'ah dont worry love stay as long as you want' (i love my quiet sunday mornings catching up on all my programmes and sitting on the internet for hours :))
x x


----------



## laura25

Deb111 said:


> Hi ladies,
> 
> A little of over 3 months ago hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia - I'd never heard of it. I'd also never heard of ICSI which we are now heading for. All I can say is 'thank God' for forums like this! I have found several others on here who are at various stages of going through the same process as we are and thought it would be good to have a place where we can all share our experiences and feelings.
> 
> So a little about me ...
> 
> My name's Deb and I'm 36. Hubby is 44. We've been TTC since we got married 2 years ago. After the first few months I always felt something was not quite right, but everyone told me to 'relax' and stop stressing.
> 
> In Dec 2009 we went to our GP and got referred to the fertility clinic who did some basic tests and diagnosed hubby with azoospermia (after initially telling us that hubby's first SA was 'normal' ... but that's a whole other story!)
> 
> He is now waiting for his SSR in October. It was our choice to delay until then as I wanted to get hubby on the supplements to make sure that if they do find sperm, they're the best quality they can be.
> 
> Whilst I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone, I hope that those of you who are dealing with it will drop by and introduce yourselves and if you want to let me know dates of SSR's, ICSI treatments etc, I will add them to the front page.
> 
> It would also be nice to hear any azoospermia / SSR success stories!
> 
> Deb xx
> 
> loobylou_01 - OTD 30th August 2010 - :bfp: :happydance:
> 
> Flake-y - IUI 17th September 2010 - PUPO :happydance:
> 
> Deb111 - SSR booked for 28th October 2010
> 
> Wrightywales - ET July 2010 :angel: :hugs:
> 
> Step Mummy - SSR 1st September 2010
> 
> Waitingginger - Hubby's ultrasound scan - 3rd September 2010
> 
> April4jdg - HSG - 14th September 2010 - all clear
> 
> Hulahoops04 - Urology appointment 14th September 2010 - Infertility Clinic appointment - 1st October 2010

hiya my names laura ive just joined so this is all new to me! its comforting to see someone else going through the same thing as much as its a difficult thing to go through.:cry: My partner as also azoospermia but due to tamoxifen as been able to produce a low sperm count for freezing!!! we are just waiting to get on the ivf waiting list!! we have an apportment at lwh on the 4th oct 2010 so hopefully we will know what the next step will be!! 
i wish you the best of luck hun!! xx


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## Deb111

Hi Laura and welcome :flower:

Sorry to hear about your situation. It's interesting to hear about the tamoxifen. It's not something that hubby has been offered. Were they able to give you a reson for hubby's azoospermia?

Can I ask what kind of sperm count they managed to get from your hubby?

I'm intrigued now ... :-k


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## Flake-y

Hey everyone, so IUI went well, DS count was 56 mill pre-wash, 20 mill post-wash with 80% motility so looks like we made a good choice!!! lol

Now just 2 weeks to wait...


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## Dancergirl

Keeping my hopes up for you Flake-y.... I know how devastated it can be when IUI with DS doesn't work and I really pray you don't have to face that. Sending baby dust your way!!!

My dr. didn't give me the numbers with the DS we used, they just said that the number and mobility looked great. I will have to make sure to ask for the numbers when we go in Oct. 4th for our 3rd IUI attempt.


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## april4jdg

hey- there-I have been out of town for a week on business-and I am still messed up witht he timezone...LOL.... 

Well, DH has the appointment with the urologist this morning... I hope there is good news...


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## Deb111

Hope you get some good news April xx


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## Deb111

So today I'm feeling ... angry, frustrated, lost and probably many more things!

I will try to write this as briefly as possible as I would value opinions

- Terry's blood test at hospital showed very low testosterone. They didn't comment other than giving us the figure, which I researched and he went to speak to GP. GP agreed too low.

- GP re-did blood test - slightly better testosterone level but wanted a third one

- He's been today for results - still extremely low and think it suggests testicular failure due to very low hormones and wants him to see endocrinologist

- He thinks we should probably go ahead with the SSR as we can always have it again and may wait a while for appt with endocrinologist and treatment may then take a while

SO, MY THOUGHTS ARE ...

- why the hell didn't the hospital even suggest we saw GO about low testosterone level esp if it could indicate testicular failure - surely there is a probable link there to the azoospermia?

- why did the urologist say there was nothing we could do to help things, when this could be something that will change things, as could the tamoxifen that Laura mentioned?

- what the hell do we do about the SSR? The thought of waiting months more is unbearable, but is there really any hope as things stand with suggested testicular failure? Waiting for an appt and any treatment could delay things by 12 months and I'm nearly 37 as it is

- if we do have it done now and then the endocrinologist feels treatment for the testosterone could improve our chances, obviously, as long as there's not a blockage, we may then be able to get pregnant naturally, but if they needed to do another SSR, how long do we have to wait between SSR's?

I'm so furious with the hospital and urologist for keeping us in the dark and not even suggesting speaking to GP about low testosterone as it can suggest other issues too. I feel we get told nothing by them unless I do the research and go in all guns blazing with questions, and even then they just fob us off

Where the hell do we go from here? There's no way we'd be able to get an appt with our urologist before the SSR is booked

I just feel lost and angry


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## Flake-y

:hugs: to you Deb...


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## april4jdg

Well, the urologist wants another SA- he said he hates to diagnose azoo without another SA- so DH is supposed to do another SA next week- then urologist will check the results of that- and then the urologist said we would go from there- he talked about a biopsy- he also said that from the physical exam yesterday- everything seemed normal...he said that maybe it was just a problem with "production" the day of the 1st SA- but I was thinking to myself- DH should have atleast some sperm, right- guys don;t have a SA of 0 and then have a SA with sperm- right? he should atleast be producing some, right?

oh yeah and we did get results back from DH blood test from 2nd appt- his FSH was 17.5- apparently a higher lever in the "normal" range...everything else was normal...


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## Deb111

I'm afraid I agree with you April. I don't think any guy would go from absolutely NO sperm, to things being ok. However, I guess they have to cover everything, from the sample not being stored correctly, to human error too. I mean, we had a letter after hubby's first sample saying everything was within 'normal range' but that they always asked for a second sample for comparison. Well it turned out someone had just pressed the wrong letter and generated the wrong letter as everything was far from fine. I guess they're just being careful. It's standard practice.

Keep us posted xx


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## april4jdg

I'm sure the doctor wants to cover the bases- cause the RE told us that the urologist would probably ask for another sample...

It is hard not to get mad, cause I wanted to tell the doc- listen, we have tried for the last 11 months, used opk's and I always got a positive- all my tests are fine, and I know we are going to have to do IVF/ICSI if there are any sperm to be retrieved...
so let's move on.

I am just frustrated, and nervous, and I know what the results of SA #2 are gonna be-the same as the first one.. 0

I think the doc already kinda knows he is gonna be doing a biopsy- because he talked about it with my husband that day too...


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## hulahoops04

Hi everyone, 
We had our first appointment at Reproductive Medicine Clinic today. After the urologist telling us we had a high chance of retrieving sperm with the SSR, my husband's FSH and LH have both come back high which may indicate testicular failure. Its like a rollercoaster!
Today she gave us a 25% chance of retrieving sperm and an 11% chance that this would be effective when used in IVF. At the minute we are clinging to that 11% chance!

There is a 9-12 month waiting list for the SSR operation. After a long talk I feel that I cannot take another 12 months waiting. I would have to quit working as a midwife as its just too hard. I've decided to do as much hospital agency work and extra shifts as possible to try and fund this privately. She said it would be about £2500, so I have a fair few shifts to do to cover this, but just can't wait a year! I am so worried that my PCT will pull funding as they have in lots of areas around Manchester if we hold out much longer.

So it was kind of a bitter sweet appoinment today. The consultant was excellent and I have total trust in her. I was worried about going today and coming out still confused and feeling like we had a long way to go!


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## Flake-y

Hi there; you know, I wouldn't bother too much about the hormone levels; my DH's both came out fine, in fact, the urologist said he was very pleased with the levels & he was very hopeful of finding sperm, but there wasn't any.

So you never know! I'm with you on going private too, we went private cause I couldn't stand waiting either! Cost was about £2500 too.

Lots of luck!


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## Deb111

Hi Hula

Sorry about your hubby's blood test levels - hubby's FSH is slightly high, but not much and his testosterone is very low! FS didn't seem bothered about either, but GP is not happy with testosterone levels and is referring us to endocrinologist. We're going privately for that initial appt as I'm hoping he will be able to shed some light on whether or not this could be connected to the azoospermia. The urologist didn't even mention getting it re-checked! I have very little faith in him :nope: 

As Jo says, I don't think blood results tell you much, but I'm keeping everything crossed for you.

I'm so pleased that you have a lot of respect for your FS - it is so important to feel you have someone who knows what they're talking about on your side.

Sending you hugs xx:hugs:


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## Deb111

Well today's appt with the urologist went much better than the last one. He was much more friendly and answered all of our questions. I have come away having more faith in him this time which is good.

I have lots of info about the different blood test levels / reasons for doing or not doing certain tests etc, which I will post here when I get a chance - who knows? It may help someone else to know what questions to ask.

Hope everyone is doing ok xx


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## Flake-y

Good news Deb!


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## Deb111

Just copied this across from my journal as I thought it might be useful for anyone going through this right now or in the future.

Right time to try and update with all the info we found out yesterday. I'm sure a lot of you already know this, but thought it would be a useful place to record it all for my own reference

The urologist was like a different person. Very helpful and supportive and understanding of our need to ask lots more questions.

Info from the urologist
- Pituitary gland makes FSH, LH and TSH (thyroid stim. hormone)

- Terry's FSH is 15 and normal is up to about 7

- The fact that his is higher than normal tells them that he doesn't have a problem with his pituitary gland itself

- If there was a blockage, the testes would be making sperm normally but they just wouldn't be getting through. This would mean that his FSH would be normal so the fact that his FSH isn't normal suggests that the body is struggling to make sperm rather than there being a blockage

- Therefore they haven't felt it necessary to do a scan

- Tamoxifen stimulates the pituitary gland to make FSH when it isn't making any / enough. The fact that Terry is making too much means that tamoxifen is not needed and would not solve any problems in our situation

- SSR can be done again in about 6 months IF necessary for whatever reason

- 90% of the tissue they take in the SSR will be used by the clinic to look for sperm, the other 10% goes to the hospital pathology dept to see if they can establish a cause etc. He said in some cases, the testes have pockets / small areas where normal sperm is being produced and that there is always a slim chance that when they take a sample, they will miss the pockets of sperm which is why they try a few places. He also warned us that there is a minute chance that they could take samples, catch the edge of one of these pockets of normal sperm production and that the part with healthy sperm in could be the 10% that goes to the pathology lab! From the way he was talking, that wouldn't be dealt with in the right way / time frame for those sperm to be recovered. I'm guessing that's when we would consider a possible further op in 6 months time? 

If you've read this far I'm impressed! No wonder my brain aches! I feel like I could write a book about it at the moment! Whoever knew TTC would be so technical and indepth! 


And now for the endocrinologist appt! (the one where we got to park right outside :winkwink: and had our parking refunded as we went private!!! :happydance: :rofl: )

He agrees it not a major problem with Terry's pituitary gland but says he needs testosterone replacement therapy as low testosterone can cause osteoporosis.

However, he wont give him that treatment now as it would trick the brain into thinking he was making enough testosterone which would mean his FSH level would drop and then sperm definitely wouldn't get made. 

He wants us to go back and see him on the NHS when the TTC / SSR issues have been dealt with and will then do some more tests and start him on 12 weekly testosterone injections.

As we left he said "I will pretend I know you and reduce tonight's charge accordingly"!!!! We have no idea why?! Maybe he felt he couldn't / didn't really do much for us right now but it was a nice surprise so will be interested to see the bill when it comes.

Right, I think that's it for now .....


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## april4jdg

I feel like I already know what they are going to be in my heart... So does the urologist do the biopsy? Or the RE?


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## Deb111

Hi April

I really wish you all the best for tomorrow. If they tell you there are no sperm in this sample, make sure to ask them if it was centrifuged (I think I've remembered that right!) Apparently, even when a sample appears to have no sperm, if it is centrifuged, there may be a few present which will sink to the bottom. Worth asking?

It is our urologist doing the SSR

All the best xx


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## Deb111

Laura - Any news form your appt hun?

Stepmummy - I hope you had some good news regarding the follow up tests from hubby's op

Any more updates from anyone? It's been quiet in here lately. Hope everyone is doing well.

Hugs to you all xx :hugs:


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## Dancergirl

Had IUI #3 last Monday (10/4) now just waiting to see if it worked. Feeling nervous and scared to get my hope up because I know how crushing it can be to find out it didn't work. I should know this weekend and will keep you posted. Wishing for the best.


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## Flake-y

Good luck dancergirl; keep us updated!


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## april4jdg

#2 Sa was a 0 again, they do centerfuge it and it was done at two different dr's offices...One at the RE and the 2nd SA at the urologist... So we have been referred to another urologist for a biopsy consultation this coming Wednesday...

This urologist works at the same hospital as our RE does... which is about 2 hours away from us...


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## Deb111

Sorry to hear your news April. I hope you can get an appt soon and get some answers xx


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## Deb111

Question for those women whose hubby's have had the SSR ...

We've been told Terry will need 'tight fitting, supportive underwear' after the op. Ironic when he spends all the time TTC wearing lose fitting, cool undies!

Anyway, I have no idea what to get and I know he wont - were your hubbies told to wear anythin specific or did they find one sort more supportive than other?

I don't know whether he needs 'speedo' type briefs (which look like they may be supportive but maybe a bit too confined if swollen,) or jockey shorts type with the support pouch at the front?

Any ideas girls?


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## Flake-y

K was given a supportive jockstrap after his SSR; he took it of the next day though & had a shower; he just out on his ordinary undies; you know, the tight boxers, like the Calvin Klein ones?


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## lemongal7

Hi ladies. Just stumbled onto this thread. Sounds like you all are going through some real cruddy situations. I just got hubby's SA back today and it was 0. How awful. I had hopes they were low, but 0???
Anyway, it's been helpful to see some of the things your hubbies have gone through, so I kind of know what to expect my hubby to go through next. We were told to see a urologist, so praying my hubby agrees to go. He hates DRs! Why does this have to be so hard???


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## Deb111

Hi Lemongal - welcome :hi:

So sorry you're going through this. It sucks big time - but there is hope. There are so many advances in medicine these days. If this had happened 10 years ago, we would all have ended up childless or having to adopt, but there are now options, which is reassuring and I think we have to cling on to that.

Have they requested another SA to be done? I hope hubby is open to discussing this with you and getting some help.

Keep us posted
Deb xx :hugs:


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## lemongal7

Hi Deb111 - going to talk to hubby tonight. i know he's going to fight having to see a urologist...he just wants this all to happen naturally and is freaked about having a doctor examine his "stuff" , ya know? Poor guy. I think he eventually will come around to agreeing to it, but may take some time and lots of prodding. 
The clinic where he had the SA suggested that when he sees the urologist to have another SA, so who knows. Maybe the next one will show us a couple sperm?? Anything, please!!


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## MariaF

Hia Deb! I've been following your thread and just wanted to wish you and hubby best if luck for the 28th. I'll be keeping everything crossed for you! Xxx


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## Deb111

lemongal7 said:


> Hi Deb111 - going to talk to hubby tonight. i know he's going to fight having to see a urologist...he just wants this all to happen naturally and is freaked about having a doctor examine his "stuff" , ya know? Poor guy. I think he eventually will come around to agreeing to it, but may take some time and lots of prodding.
> The clinic where he had the SA suggested that when he sees the urologist to have another SA, so who knows. Maybe the next one will show us a couple sperm?? Anything, please!!

If it helps to convince your hubby - the urologist's examination was less than a minute long, but I know how it is for us women; the first time you have an examination it's awful but then with smears etc and all the poking and prodding with fertility tests, you soon lose your inhibitions! Hopefully, he will get used to it.

As far as the SA goes. Make sure to ask them if they centrifuge it. It's an important part of the process and can sometimes show the odd sperms that would otherwise have been missed.

xx


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## Deb111

MariaF said:


> Hia Deb! I've been following your thread and just wanted to wish you and hubby best if luck for the 28th. I'll be keeping everything crossed for you! Xxx

Thanks :flower: Much appreciated xx


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## waitingginger

Hi Lemongal!
Welcome to the thread! my oh was exactly the same about seeing the urologist but really its such a short appointment i think once he can get over the first the rest of the appointments wont be so bad! as OH really doesnt mind now he says that there is just no way of it happening naturally he says he would walk round the hospital with no trousers on all day if it meant he could ahve just one child! The worst thing for my OH so far was the ultrasound as they do touch and move around your balls for about 15 mintues!! i always find it best not to tell him whats actually going to happen in there because once he is the room he doesnt have much choice! lol!

and an update form me:
after being reffered in August i hadnt heard anything from St Marys so phoned them and they hadnt recivced our referral letter. so had to phone around and get it faxed to them!
Phoned them again today and they have got and they are waiting for some more clinics to be added on and we should get a letter with our appointment by Jan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bloomin jan just to wait for a letter about when our appointment is!!!!!! and its a different doctor to the one we were referred to!!!! 

I ahve so many questions for them cant belive its going to be so long before we even get to see anybody and then we ahve to go through the SA testing all over again before even thnking about SSR!!! GRRRRRRRR!


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## lemongal7

Hi waitingginger - thanks for the info. Glad to hear the Urologist appt isnt so bad. I have talked about it with DH, and he seems ok, just wants me to call and ask the office what they do so he's prepared. I think he's the type where he has to work himself up to doing something and the more he knows what to expect the better. Feel so bad for your guy...so sad to have that kind of diagnosis and not be able to conceive naturally. What a heart break. :cry:

Stinks you have to wait so long to find out more. Two and a half months from now - geez! I'm in the US and we have private insurance, so I've thankfully been able to get most appts within a couple weeks of calling. Sorry you have to wait so long for answers...it is a frustrating battle when you have to wait so long in between treatments and exams.

By the way - I like the verse from Samuel you quoted...when we first started having trouble, I read through that book and it was and is still a great encouragement. I'll be praying for your guy and my guy to miraculously create some spermies!!! :happydance:


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## Flake-y

Well girls, I am now thanking my lucky stars that we were able to go private...

We were referred to urology in March this year, & were told it would be prob a 12 week wait for an appointment. I phoned in May & was told that it was more likely to be August before we got an appointment so we decided to go private.

Guess what came in the door today? Our appointment! For the 12th of November! 8 months after our original referral; am I just expecting too much or does that seem like quite a long time to wait?

Am so glad we just went private!!!


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## waitingginger

It is very hard for the men i think because they dont articulate how they are feeling! i know my OH wants children more then anything and it breaks his heart even holding his baby nephew at the minute and we go out with all our family and the talk has sunddenly turned to what to get the kids for xmas and when to have another and we just look at each other feeling completely left out!! i would like to say it gets easier with time but i am not sure it does perhaps because it has still only been 6 months with us and i cry at everything! but it certainly seems to be always on my mind!!!

8 months!!!!!! i am hoping mean as tho they are 'adding more clinics' the wait after Jan shouldnt be too long! but then by the time you include having to have the SAs done again, then the waiting list for SSR and then another waiting list for IVF/ICSI its going to take forever!!!!!

Once the wedding :wedding:is paid for we are going to look at going private! i want this NHS process to hurry up but am thinking we also have plenty of time as even a 3 year wait on NHS would mean i was still only 28 and still plenty of time for private treatment!!! I think its just the wait to know what is actually wrong if there is any sperm in there thats killing me!!! the IVF can wait i just need to know if there is a chance!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you all have brilliant weekend!! I have a weekend of wedding dress shopping planned :yipee:


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## Flake-y

Enjoy wedding dress shopping! Sounds like fun!


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## Deb111

Just an update with hubby's SSR results from today.

They found one healthy motile sperm immediately which we were told was really promising. But they only managed to find 2 more. We thought that meant there was at least someting to work with, but the NHS wont even bother to freeze them unless there are 100+ as they don't consider it a viable number

Right now it feels incredibly cruel that we had our hopes raised, that he's obviously capable of producing some, even though numbers are obviously low and that they've now been discarded.

Didn't help that the other 2 guys on for SSR today both had ample numbers of sperm found - I knwo that has no effect on our results, but still hard to hear :cry:


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, it has been a long time since I was here last, we have been on a horrible journey. However it sounds as though no-one else has had a good time either - no good news has come in while I have been away.

Deb - I am so sorry you had your hopes raised - how cruel of them - what are you going to do now? Are you considering the donor route - how is your hubby doing?

Flake-y - fingers crossed for this IUI - are you taking the drugs or have you opted to go natural? Come on be the one to get some good news out to us all!!!! 

The last time I wrote, I warned everyone to ask lots of questions after the SSR op so you know what to expect and know what to look for if things go wrong so you can pick them up quicker. DH had is SSR op on 1st September he is still on drugs to get better, one of his balls are still swollen, he is also still on prescribed painkillers.

The outcome of the SSR was no sperm at all, something to do with hormones, which was picked up in the blood tests and aparantly we only had a 10% chance of success but no-one told us this until DH was in hospital that morning of the op, so we might not have gone ahead had we know. He is producing sperm but they are not maturing. Our only option is the Donor, which we have agreed to go for, but are both struggling witht his still. I am "greiving" for not having my DH's baby, I think DH is dealing with it better than me - thank god he already has a son aged 18!

After the op DH got an infection and one ball swelled up to 4 times the normal size. The infection was treated with 3 weeks of anticiotics, during this time he was ill like having proper flu and was bed riden for the three weeks after the op and i had to have time off too to look after him. On 26th Sept he stopped the antibiotics and he was ok, we had a 2 week holiday planned in Turkey on 2nd Oct so this was really good news. However 2 days into the holiday the pain came back and he was on paracetamol constantly for the pain for the whole holiday. We were on a water sports holiday and he could not do anything so we literally spent 2 weeks on the sun bed doing nothing, which is nice for a couple of days but not 2 weeks - it ruined the holiday, it was very frustrating! he couldn't even walk around the resort it was too painful. When we got back he had a doctors appt, they have prescribed 1 months strong painkiller with anti-inflamatory. One ball is still quite swollen and when the painkillers wear off he is still in pain.

So all in all the last 2 months have been poo!!! We are very upset about having to use a donor and have decided to have a break now until after Christmas, so we can have some time not worrying and constantly stressing about the results etc, and of course during this time you can live in hope that everything will work out ok!

I wish you all well, and hope that one of us gets some good news soon!
XX


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## Flake-y

Angela; hope your DH is doing a bit better now! It is def a strain on them, esp when the outcome is bad news.

IUI cycle is with letrozole, I do ovulate on my own but cycles are pretty long so I'm happy with the drugs! Fxed for a +ve result, will keep you updated.


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## Flake-y

Deb111 said:


> Didn't help that the other 2 guys on for SSR today both had ample numbers of sperm found - I knwo that has no effect on our results, but still hard to hear :cry:

They really shouldn't have let you find out about that! That's pretty poor.
You know, I was thinking today, that out of all the girls whose hubby's have had SSRs recently, none of us have had good results. I wonder if I had known this, would we still have gone ahead with the SSR? It might just be that we all have bad luck though!


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## waitingginger

Deb, i am so sorry you have had bad news!!! are you going to consider the donor route?

Angela, its sounds like your poor hubby has had a terrible time following his SSR!! i hope he gets better!! sorry you ahve had such a rubbish couple of months!!

I must admit having not started the process of SSR yet, i have been sitting here for the past month or so thinking OMG!!! whats the point nobody seems to have good news from these SSRs? maybe its rare to find sperm in an SSR. But i found on the fertility network webiste a forum specifically for the hospital we ahve been referred to and there are some success stories out there!!!

I do have an update on the long wait i was expecting for our first consultation at the clinic... on thursday morning before work i was having some PMT and had a bit of a weepy moment to W about not knowing when our appointment is and its taking so long etc! and then he phoned me at work to say a letter had come for our intial consultation for 22nd December!!!! woohoo!!! the weird part is last week we booked our wedding for 22nd Dec 2012!!!!!!!!!! i would never even of thought docs worked that late up until xmas! hoping its a good luck sign for us!!!

Hope you are all well!! and :dust::dust::dust: for you Jo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
x x x x


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## Deb111

Just found this information about a clinic in San Francisco.

https://www.theturekclinic.com/testicular-mapping.html

It's a really interesting read - tomorrow's task; to see if I can find anything like this in the UK!


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## april4jdg

I am sorry it has been awhile, we have been busy with work and other things... Dh had his pre surgery blood work done this past wednesday for the biopsy. They said it would take about a week to get the results back... He is planning to have the biopsy done the first week in December... They gave us packets on TESA, and cryopreservation... But I was kind of mad because, I am like, I don't think you are going to find anything...Giving us that packet just will get our hopes up... for nothing I am afraid... We have already started to talk about adoption... But DH says he has to get the biopsy done, so we will know we have exhausted all routes...


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## Dancergirl

Well, IUI #3 with DS was unsuccessful again. It was devastating all over again. I was again put on clomid for another try. This last Wed I went in for an ultrasound after I got a positive on my home ovulation test (I do ovulate each month) and my lining looked great... 16 and only needed to be 10! I also had 4 eggs rearing to go at the perfect size! So Thurs we went in for IUI #4 and am in the 2-week wait to find out if it worked. They also put me on progesterone since that was the only issue they had originally found with me. 

We never did SSR with my husband b/c our urologist said it would cost a lot of money and we probably wouldn't find out any different news. I think in the future when we are not students and making more money we will get more tests done on my husband. Until then, really praying it works this month. If not, my dr. is encouraging us to do Gonadrotropin Therapy with injections in my rearend several days during the cycle and the cost jumps up quite a bit. 

Really hoping to have good new for you all soon!


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## Flake-y

Dancergirl, Sorry for IUI#3, but fxed for IUI#4!!!

Forgot to update myself; IUI#2 bfn, moving on to IVF, starting meds middle of next cycle, metformin to prevent OHSS, then injectables at the start of the next, next cycle, EC prob end of January!


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## Dancergirl

Flake-y... so you only tried IUI with DS 2 times and now you are going start to IVF? We don't know if we will do IVF since it is not my husbands sperm, but still don't know since we have mixed feelings about it. But I guess it is either IVF or adoption, not really any other opinions.

Has anyone here tired the Gonadotropin therapy?


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## Deb111

Sorry to hear your news Dancergirl :hugs:

Haven't heard of gonadotrophin therapy (unless it's also called something different) but am off to google it now xx


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## Deb111

So it's been a long and difficult couple of weeks but we've potentially had some encouraging news.

After finding out that Terry was in fact making 'some' sperm and being offered another SSR in 6 months time to have another 'pot luck' attempt, we started scouring the internet yet again for more info. Whilst Terry is prepared to discuss using donor sperm, he is not prepared to discuss it until we have tried something a bit more scientific in terms of finding sperm. I don't think his aunt's comments about using a donor help - it messes with his head and with it being his Mum's twin sister, I feel he probably thinks his Mum's views would be the same. The afternoon of the op, when he told her they'd found 3 but that it wasn't any good for the NHS, she said - "Oh well, I'm so glad they found some. You won't have to use donor now, but then you wouldn't have done anyway ... WOULD YOU!!??" and of course, Terry not wanting to offend, placates her.

Anyway, we stumbled across a website for the Turek clinic where Dr Turek does a sperm mapping procedure, where he can use a combination of up to 20 fine needle aspirations in each teste and ultrasound and has a much better chance of finding the areas where the sperm are in order to then go in and retrieve them. Only trouble is, he is is the US (San Francisco to be more precise! - which raises lots of issues for me, but that's a whole other story ...)

Anyway, we had a phone consulatation with Dr Turek today, who was incredibly positive, was thrilled to hear that they found some sperm but had the following concerns
- firstly he was shocked that the piece of tissue they took was 3-5% from either side - he said that that is WAY too much to be able to search through properly for sperm
- secondly, he asked what the clinic had done with the 3 sperm they found ; did they freeze them or use them fresh?? and was absolutely horrified to hear they'd just discarded them. He said they would use ANY they find that are viable and that the lowest limit of 100 that the NHS talk about would be like hitting a goldmine in an azoopsermic man

He instantly said that Terry should be on clomid and that that will naturally increase his testosterone levels. Our clinic dismissed it when I mentioned it and our GP said clomid was only for women - which I know it was originally, but I've read so much about men taking clomid too. He actually said it's not out of the question that clomid would help to the extent that he may be able to produce a sperm sample and they may find and be able to retrieve sperm for ICSI - that would mean it could even be done over here 

Anyway, they have sent us some forms to fill in to request what they call a 'second opinion' and wants to see all Terry's SA results and blood test results. We didn't have a note of Terry's LH level but told him we were told it was 'within normal limits' - he said he needs more info than that as his actual level in relation to his testosterone is crucial whether it's in the normal range or not Then we have to get baseline blood tests and anothe SA done in 3 months time and then he will liase with our GP to get him started on 3 months worth of clomid and anything else he feels necessary and then get all results re-done in another 3 months and then we can go over there if we want and if still necessary and have the procedure.

Anyway, I'm not getting carried away or getting my hopes up, but it is so nice to hear someone being a bit more positive for once and not treating us like a statistic.

Sorry for the long essay, but I needed to get all that down whilst it's fresh in my mind xx


----------



## Dancergirl

That is great news Deb. I really hope this works for you and Terry! It is always nice when the Dr.'s talk positively about opinions still out there!:flower:


----------



## Flake-y

Dancergirl said:


> Flake-y... so you only tried IUI with DS 2 times and now you are going start to IVF? We don't know if we will do IVF since it is not my husbands sperm, but still don't know since we have mixed feelings about it. But I guess it is either IVF or adoption, not really any other opinions.

Yep, we were going to do another IUI, but we only have 5 vials of the donor sperm, and that's 2 gone already, so we thought we'd be better using it on the IVF which has a better chance of working than the IUI.

We don't want to use all the DS on failed IUI, then have to buy more, cause it's really expensive to buy; we'd like the sperm we have to be our whole family, and if we keep doing the IUI it's likely we'd need to buy more sperm, and we might not be able to get more from the same donor, also if we managed to get pregnant from this donor, then wanted another child but had used up all our sperm, we might have to choose a different donor which we'd rather not do.

It's all a bit complicated!!!:shrug:


----------



## Dancergirl

Flake-y, that completely makes sense to me. 

We have used the same donor all 4 times we have attempted IUI, but we order each vial monthly. Our donor has 20+ vials available and if it works for us, we too want to use the same donor for all our future children. The place that we order the sperm from will actually store the sperm we buy for as many years as we want (it does cost some of course). 

Sperm donor definitely can get complicated and it has been a roller coaster of emotions for us. I really hope IVF works for you the first time!!


----------



## Flake-y

Dancergirl said:


> Flake-y, that completely makes sense to me.
> 
> We have used the same donor all 4 times we have attempted IUI, but we order each vial monthly. Our donor has 20+ vials available and if it works for us, we too want to use the same donor for all our future children. The place that we order the sperm from will actually store the sperm we buy for as many years as we want (it does cost some of course).
> 
> Sperm donor definitely can get complicated and it has been a roller coaster of emotions for us. I really hope IVF works for you the first time!!

It really is a rollercoaster!!! 

We bought all the sperm from our donor, he's now sold out!!! :rofl:


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi Flake-y, sorry you are having such a tough time, I really hope the IUI works for your before you have to get as far as IVF.

Have you been given the all clear on health, is it just DH that has the problem? As I thought on someone healthy the odds were quite good? If thats the case then hopefully the next go will be the one that works for you 

fingers and everything crossed for you both,
X:flower:


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## MariaF

Hi Deb,

Doesn't the NHS make your blood boil?! :growlmad: They've messed me up big time with PCOS so personally I have no trust in them and so far we've been going private.

Is this something you considered? May be if a fertility specialist in the US has very different opinion to the NHS so will the private guys here in the UK?

All it may take is one IVF for you and BAM - you have your very own baby!

The NHS do only do the minimum. Unfortunately there's no funding to treat each case separately and try their best, they need to set threshold and minimums....you can sort of understand that.
For us they said that to just get the first fertility appointment on the NHS is more than a 6 months wait in the south-east because all the money has been spent till spring 2011!!


----------



## Flake-y

Step Mummy said:


> Hi Flake-y, sorry you are having such a tough time, I really hope the IUI works for your before you have to get as far as IVF.
> 
> Have you been given the all clear on health, is it just DH that has the problem? As I thought on someone healthy the odds were quite good? If thats the case then hopefully the next go will be the one that works for you
> 
> fingers and everything crossed for you both,
> X:flower:

Hi Angela,

We're actually just going to do IVF next cycle, cause we've only got 3 vials of sperm left & would rather use it on something with a higher success rate.

I've got no fertility probs, apart from very mild pcos, but that doesn't cause me any problems apart from long and occ irregular cycles.

The odds for IUI are not brilliant though, even if you have no fertility issues; it's not that much different from ordinary sex, which is about 20% each cycle.

In fact, the FS told me the odds for IUI were 10-25%, which is why we're doing the IVF next time with odds of 55% which is so much better!!!!

Doing IVF doesn't bother me at all though, just looking forward to getting started!!

Hope you're doing ok, have you had any more thoughts on using a donor?


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Everyone...

Do you mind if I join you? Flake-y directed me to this thread as I have just found out that my husband has azoospermia.

Here is a little about us -

Me (27) and DH (30) have been ttc for 15 months. I have had the initial blood tests which came back OK, but DH had his SA results last week which showed no sperm - needless to say we were both devestated and very anxious about what happens next...

He has to do another SA, then will be referred for a biopsy to see if its a blockage or if he just doesn't produce any.

Then it's either onto ICSI or the donor route if they don't find any....

I'm feeling very anxious and a bit dauted about what lies ahead - but have found comfort in knowing there are others out there with the same situation (in the nicest possible way...)

Thank you Flake-y for introducing me to this thread x


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## Deb111

Hi Pink

I'm so sorry you've had to join us here, but you're very welcome. It really is very daunting and I don't really feel I'm still coping very well with it all. Sometimes I feel like I'm just numb and in a bubble and everything else is going on around me and without me. Sometimes, I just feel very angry.

Has your DH had blood tests done? They need to be checking for
- cystic fibrosis
- LH levels
- FSH levels
- Y chromosome micro deletion
- testosterone levels

These will tell them alot about whether there is a blockage or not before you go ahead with any operations. They will also need to check if there is any sign of a varicocele or absence of the vas deferens.

Also ask them whether they centrifuge the SA?

I'm sure you probably know a lot of this so sorry for repeating it all if you do.

I'm sure there are some other things that hubby's also been tested for so I'll check through my notes later.

Wishing you all the best 
Deb x


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## Pink Lolly

Deb111 said:


> Hi Pink
> 
> I'm so sorry you've had to join us here, but you're very welcome. It really is very daunting and I don't really feel I'm still coping very well with it all. Sometimes I feel like I'm just numb and in a bubble and everything else is going on around me and without me. Sometimes, I just feel very angry.
> 
> Has your DH had blood tests done? They need to be checking for
> - cystic fibrosis
> - LH levels
> - FSH levels
> - Y chromosome micro deletion
> - testosterone levels
> 
> These will tell them alot about whether there is a blockage or not before you go ahead with any operations. They will also need to check if there is any sign of a varicocele or absence of the vas deferens.
> 
> Also ask them whether they centrifuge the SA?
> 
> I'm sure you probably know a lot of this so sorry for repeating it all if you do.
> 
> I'm sure there are some other things that hubby's also been tested for so I'll check through my notes later.
> 
> Wishing you all the best
> Deb x

Thanks for the info Deb - I didn't know all of that. I can't remember the GP mentioning blood tests but to be honest I don't remember much of what he said....I think we were so stunned when he told us the result, it was like he was talking but we couldn't hear him. 

DH has to repeat the SA which should be within the next couple of weeks, then we're going back to the GP. This time we will (hopefully) be feeling a bit more level headed and less shocked so we can find out a bit more.

What is your situation - did they find sperm or are you using a donor? We have talked about a donor and will be going down that route if they find nothing. It's not ideal but we have both decided if it's our only option then it's the best chance we have.

Thank you xx


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## Deb111

Pink Lolly said:


> Thanks for the info Deb - I didn't know all of that. I can't remember the GP mentioning blood tests but to be honest I don't remember much of what he said....I think we were so stunned when he told us the result, it was like he was talking but we couldn't hear him.
> 
> DH has to repeat the SA which should be within the next couple of weeks, then we're going back to the GP. This time we will (hopefully) be feeling a bit more level headed and less shocked so we can find out a bit more.
> 
> What is your situation - did they find sperm or are you using a donor? We have talked about a donor and will be going down that route if they find nothing. It's not ideal but we have both decided if it's our only option then it's the best chance we have.
> 
> Thank you xx

You will probably find that once your GP refers you to a urologist for the biopsy, he will carry out the tests I mentioned. I will check out the other info I have when I get a chance - in the middle of decorating at the moment and have no idea where my folder of info is! :dohh: xx


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## Dancergirl

IUI attempt #4... BFN :( 

Taking the month of December off since we are so busy with the holiday season. In January we will meet with our Dr. for a consolation to discuss what steps/procedures we want to take next. 

Welcome Pink Lolly, it is all definitely difficult to take in and I wish I could tell you that it gets easier, but I am still daily reminded about what we can't have.... our own biological child. Hope you have some good news next SA!


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## Deb111

So sorry Dancergirl. I wish there was soemthing I could say to help, but just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you x :hugs:


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## waitingginger

So sorry the IUI didnt work out for you dancer:hug:

And welcome pink lolly!! i am in the early stages like you!!

We had the 2 SA results in april/may time and found my partner had no sperm. He has had blood tests and an ultraousnd scan which have come back 'normal' but havent had any further info on them!

We have our first consultation about the Surgical Sperm Retireval on 22nd dec! and i think the waiting list for it is about 8-10 months! then its on to what ever we need to do next!!

How is your OH handling it? i think you are a bit shell shocked at first and for me i wish i could say it gets easier to live with in time but actually i think it gets harder and harder every day! my OH is getting more and more upset as the time passes! and in the past 2 weeks he has broken down twice and i have never seen him cry he is such a big strong man you would never think it!!!

Do you ahve any idea why your OH may have Azoospermia? Mumps or undescended testicles?. 

I send you tons and tons of :hugs2: for you and OH because i know how hard it is!!!!
x x x


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## Pink Lolly

waitingginger said:


> So sorry the IUI didnt work out for you dancer:hug:
> 
> And welcome pink lolly!! i am in the early stages like you!!
> 
> We had the 2 SA results in april/may time and found my partner had no sperm. He has had blood tests and an ultraousnd scan which have come back 'normal' but havent had any further info on them!
> 
> We have our first consultation about the Surgical Sperm Retireval on 22nd dec! and i think the waiting list for it is about 8-10 months! then its on to what ever we need to do next!!
> 
> How is your OH handling it? i think you are a bit shell shocked at first and for me i wish i could say it gets easier to live with in time but actually i think it gets harder and harder every day! my OH is getting more and more upset as the time passes! and in the past 2 weeks he has broken down twice and i have never seen him cry he is such a big strong man you would never think it!!!
> 
> Do you ahve any idea why your OH may have Azoospermia? Mumps or undescended testicles?.
> 
> I send you tons and tons of :hugs2: for you and OH because i know how hard it is!!!!
> x x x

Hi waitingginger,

Thank you - :hug: to you both too - it really was the most devestating news we could ever have imagined. Had the appointment time through for the second SA this morning and it's 21st December which is a shame coz we were hoping to get the results back before Christmas but never mind - we know they'll come back the same anyway so I don't suppose it matters!

DH had one undescended testicle which was corrected when he was 4 or 5. The GP said he didn't think this would be the cause, as the other one should still be working OK but I wonder if it may be related, otherwise it's quite a coincidence....how about your DH?

I'm sorry your DH is finding it hard - mine has been putting on a brave face. The main problem is that he feels guilty and keeps saying that it's all his fault and that he feels useless - nothing I say seems to help that either and I don't know how to make him feel better. 

To be honest I can't imagine how awful it must be for the boys. We have been talking about using a donor (if we need to) and DH is preparing himself for that to avoid being disappointed - that way if they do find sperm and can use it it will be a bonus! He has been great and is prepared to do whatever it takes but it must be so hard.

Have your investigations been funded by the NHS or are you self funding? We are thinking about self funding to speed it up, but it all depends on the costs and what we can afford. The problem is where we live there are few clinics so I think that makes the waiting times are longer.

Keep in touch - it will be good to share our experiences xxx


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## Flake-y

So sorry to hear about the bfn Dancergirl, hope you are ok.

Pinklolly; it really is hard for the men, my DH was being positive the whole way through, but I think he was expecting to get sperm from the op, even though I kept saying to him to be prepared in case there wasn't. He took it very hard & was really ill after his op, probably partly from stress & upset.

I tried to get it in my head from day one that we might have to use a donor, so when it came down to it I had already thought loads about it. But it was still awful when it happened, although we feel absolutely fine about it now!!! 

Time will fly till your dec appt, hope you get some answers then!


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## loobylou_01

Pink Lolly said:


> waitingginger said:
> 
> 
> So sorry the IUI didnt work out for you dancer:hug:
> 
> And welcome pink lolly!! i am in the early stages like you!!
> 
> We had the 2 SA results in april/may time and found my partner had no sperm. He has had blood tests and an ultraousnd scan which have come back 'normal' but havent had any further info on them!
> 
> We have our first consultation about the Surgical Sperm Retireval on 22nd dec! and i think the waiting list for it is about 8-10 months! then its on to what ever we need to do next!!
> 
> How is your OH handling it? i think you are a bit shell shocked at first and for me i wish i could say it gets easier to live with in time but actually i think it gets harder and harder every day! my OH is getting more and more upset as the time passes! and in the past 2 weeks he has broken down twice and i have never seen him cry he is such a big strong man you would never think it!!!
> 
> Do you ahve any idea why your OH may have Azoospermia? Mumps or undescended testicles?.
> 
> I send you tons and tons of :hugs2: for you and OH because i know how hard it is!!!!
> x x x
> 
> Hi waitingginger,
> 
> Thank you - :hug: to you both too - it really was the most devestating news we could ever have imagined. Had the appointment time through for the second SA this morning and it's 21st December which is a shame coz we were hoping to get the results back before Christmas but never mind - we know they'll come back the same anyway so I don't suppose it matters!
> 
> DH had one undescended testicle which was corrected when he was 4 or 5. The GP said he didn't think this would be the cause, as the other one should still be working OK but I wonder if it may be related, otherwise it's quite a coincidence....how about your DH?
> 
> I'm sorry your DH is finding it hard - mine has been putting on a brave face. The main problem is that he feels guilty and keeps saying that it's all his fault and that he feels useless - nothing I say seems to help that either and I don't know how to make him feel better.
> 
> To be honest I can't imagine how awful it must be for the boys. We have been talking about using a donor (if we need to) and DH is preparing himself for that to avoid being disappointed - that way if they do find sperm and can use it it will be a bonus! He has been great and is prepared to do whatever it takes but it must be so hard.
> 
> Have your investigations been funded by the NHS or are you self funding? We are thinking about self funding to speed it up, but it all depends on the costs and what we can afford. The problem is where we live there are few clinics so I think that makes the waiting times are longer.
> 
> Keep in touch - it will be good to share our experiences xxxClick to expand...

Pink, your DH's reactions sound much like my DH's. He was exactly the same, in the end he'd already decided there would be no success with the SSR as he found it easier just to expect to use the donor. He still says things to me sometimes about everything being his fault and i know he found it really hard having to watch me inject myself once and twice a day when doing the ivf. i just try to make him know all the time how much i love him and how we can get through anything together, it can't get alot worse than the last year! and for information DH had bilateral undescended testicles as a little boy which were corrected at about age 5-6. Seems that one was more damaged than the other as they only had success at the SSR from one (can't remember which!) although GP etc didn't think that this would affect it, but obviously it had. take care xx


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## waitingginger

Yep my OH says 'he isnt a real man' and things like that!! i feel so sorry for him!! i cant decide whether he has got his head around using a donor or whether he is trying to stay positive by thinking they will get sperm from the SSR but i dont want to knock his positivity and send him into a depression or something by going on about a sperm donor when its prob gonna be about another year away!!

Pink exactly the same as you my BF had one undescended testicle corrected when he was 6!! doc reckons as it was only one shouldnt have made much difference and the ultrasound showed the other testicle had alwasy been in the right place doc even said the operation had been done really well!! very strange its one testicle the same as your OH!!!

We have discussed going private but going to go to our intial consultation first see how long the SSR wait is because IVF has a maximum wait of 18 weeks! so thats not too bad!! plus need to save the money!!
CARE manchester which would be our private clinic offers egg sharing which means if you donate your eggs you get your IVF half price which is what we would do as i dont have any problems and would love to help other couples having problems! i think there are a few CARE centres around the country perhaps you could look at this if you would like to go private?!!x x


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## april4jdg

hey there- just checking in... DH has his testicular biopsy scheduled for Jan 6, 2011...


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## Flake-y

april4jdg said:


> hey there- just checking in... DH has his testicular biopsy scheduled for Jan 6, 2011...

Good luck...:thumbup:


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## Greta.Fi

DH and I were TTC for a year before DH was diagnosed with azoospermia in Nov 09. We were told that he had no sperm and therefore he would not be able to have biological children. We went down the donor sperm route and I became pregnant 1st cycle in jan but sadly miscarried early on. 
We have just started to try using DS again last month. 
I am very frustrated that my doctor never mentioned any of the techniques mentioned here to give DH the chance to have bio kids. 
Good luck to everyone.


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## Deb111

april4jdg said:


> hey there- just checking in... DH has his testicular biopsy scheduled for Jan 6, 2011...

Good luck April - I've added your date to the front page xx


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## Deb111

Greta.Fi said:


> DH and I were TTC for a year before DH was diagnosed with azoospermia in Nov 09. We were told that he had no sperm and therefore he would not be able to have biological children. We went down the donor sperm route and I became pregnant 1st cycle in jan but sadly miscarried early on.
> We have just started to try using DS again last month.
> I am very frustrated that my doctor never mentioned any of the techniques mentioned here to give DH the chance to have bio kids.
> Good luck to everyone.

Hi Greta

I'm so sorry your dr hasn't gone through all your options with you. Can you speak to him about the things you've read on here?

I wish you all the best whether you decide to look in alternatives or continue with the donor sperm route.

Let us know what happens xx


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## loobylou_01

Good luck April for january!

Greta - can't believe your doctor didn't discuss other options with you. Sorry to hear about your miscarriage too. Wishing you luck for your next cycle xx


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## april4jdg

I just wanted to say hi. Hope you all are doing well. No news for us- just waiting for the biopsy...It is snowing in Alabama though today! That's exciting! : )


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## Nayla82

Hi ladies.

Can I please Join? I have not stopped crying for the past 48hours :cry:

My Husband got his semen analysis result 2 days ago and it was ZERO AND 1 DEAD ONE :cry::cry::cry::cry:

We have been trying religiously for 15 Months and I begged him to do the test for over 1 year, he was very very stubborn, My Gyno said to me she will book me for IUI this Month as all my tests were perfect and she said IUI will be the next step. I was very excited :cry: Husband of course had to give a Sample and the result never in a million years ZERO AND 1 DEAD, mayb low i can cope with but ZERO :cry:

Im so so scared and im trembling, Urologist wants to see him 2 weeks for another sample.. I keep thinking zero and 1 dead? Is there hope that a dead1 means there is a sperm? and is it a high chance that its a blockage? and once its unblocked millions of sperms will flow again and i might get pregnant naturally??

Help me please, I dont know what will happen? im so so so scared, any1 heard success stories with azoospermia? I thought i would be pregnant in the new year with IUI :cry: now its a whole new story.

My Christmas isnt going to be a good one :cry: 

Help me please even a tiny bit of info i will be appreciate xx thank the lord i can talk to some1 in here about this.


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## Deb111

Hi Nayla

Firstly I wanted to send you a :hugs:. You are very welcome here and will get lots of support and information.

The one thing I have learnt is that no 2 cases of this seem to be the same. But our reactions to it have a lot in common; shock, anger, fear, denial, grief. Right now it sounds like you are in shock and grieving for your ideal image of how you would become parents. People who haven't been through this tell me "it will all be ok". What they don't understand is that none of this is ok. Even if I end up with a baby one day, the trauma we will have had to go through to get there will never be "OK"!

There are lots of reasons why you hubby may have this problem. He may have something called a varicocele (an enlarged vein), his FSH / LH levels may not be right, he may have had undescended testes as a child which were dealt with later than they should have been, he may have had a groin injury, he may have a blockage - the list goes on. Some of these are treatable and things could still happen naturally. Some are not treatable, but may mean that your hubby has a procedure called surgical sperm retrieval where a urologist will carry out a short op where he tries to retrieve sperm which either can't get out because of a blockage or because of extremely low numbers. If this is the case and they can retrieve sperm, they can use them for ICSI.

There is of course the chance that they will not find any sperm, but whilst you should not rule this possibility out, try not to worry too much until you have some more info. I'm not sure of the significance of the one dead sperm as I don't think any of the girls on here have had that result. Do you actually have an appt with the urologist in 2 weeks or are you just taking a sample in? Do ask them if the centrifuge the sperm sample - it's important that they do as they can find some sperm that way that they may otherwise miss.

I'm sure we can all help you to put together a list of the questions you need to be asking him, but I don't want to bombard you with too much info all in one go.

Please know that you are not alone. It is very difficult when you get a diagnosis like this because your hubby will be hurting too and if you're anything like me, you don't want to put anymore pressure on him, but it affects you too.

If you want to PM me feel free. We will do all we can to support you as you move through this tough journey xx


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## Flake-y

Hi Nayla;
So sorry about the news of the zero sperm counr; we had the same news in March this year, it is absolutely devastating & I know exactly how you must be feeling.

We are about to start IVF using donor sperm as no sperm was found after the retreival op. We've had 2 unsuccessful IUIs so far.

I see you are also in Scotland, feel free to PM me also if you want to ask any questions about the doctors we've seen; they may well be the same ones that you will see. Certainly the urologist that did my DH's operation does all the sperm retreival ops in the west of Scotland so if you're in the west it'll be the same guy.

Anyway, we are all here for you, the thread is a great place to vent all your anger & know you are not alone!!!


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## Nayla82

Hi Ladies 

Firstly from the bottom of my heart I thank you so so much for your fast responses :hugs:

Debs- Thank you so much for all the information, The Urologist wants him to give a sample on the 28th December and on the 29th they will discuss what they find if anything? This next 2 weeks will be very very tough, not got a clue what to expect? Just want to wake up and we have the 2nd sample. I just hope and pray that its a blockage...

My husband slipped 3 discs in his back in September? I have read that this can cause the lack of Sperms? Im just trying to get as much knowledge as I can on this topic. We have only known for few days but my husband refuses to talk to me :cry: he will just come in from work and sleep. Hes gone very quiet and told me 'find another man that can give you a child I might as well be a women' :cry: I told him we get through this trial, it will be ok, Im trying to be relaxed but deep deep down i have never felt like this (as if some1 has ripped my heart straight out of me) God bless you ladies you all sound so so strong :hugs:

I told my husband what ever happens we will do this together. We never thought this would happen :nope: Urologist didnt give him anything his exact words 'go live your life as normal, and i will see you in 2 weeks' for the past year i have bought him male vitamins not once has he took them :nope: last night after dinner i saw him quietly take the vitamin :cry:

I just feel with my husband when the problem is already there thats when he acts! hes a little over weight after he slipped his disc he had now started being active and avoiding snacks (again i begged him to be healthier 3 years ago) and now they have found ZERO count hes taking his vitamins.

I remember once my period came i was very upset and went down on my knees and begged him so much to take the sample for a peace of mind (last summer) He would get angry and tell me leave him alone and theres no need for any tests! yet i would go in month after month monitor my ovulation, i took blood tests, they checked if my tubes are blocked with the blue dye,, they did everything not once did any of the professionals say 'it might be your husband' deep deep down I thought it might be a problem... I have every emotion running through my vain.. Empty, sad, angry at him, very very scared ... I dont know how to think straight :nope:

I will definitely ask them to centrifuge the sample, as it just takes 1 to make a baby. Thank you again for that.

Have you told anyone about this? I told my best friend of 12 years last night and she said to me 'oh it will be ok just do IVF or Adopt' im like WHAT? as you mentioned no1 really knows whats going on just you.. She also said chill were in 2010 good technology, Again maybe i should not have told her, as it seems like she thinks im upset over nothing?? Ladies since i have been married i breath live and dream of being a mother :cry:

So sorry for sounding so so depressed, my heart cant stop beating fast im afraid people can see it :cry:

Flake-y- I wish you all the best with IVF we deserve happiness at the end of all this :hugs:, All my family and friends are in Scotland, we moved down to london 5 Months ago with husbands job, im so so ALONE down here :cry: 

I really wish I can jump through the screen and give you both a huge hug. I will stay on this forum now theres really no need for me to be anywhere else.. woow it all happened in a blink of an eye.

Im so scared it will be ZERO again in 2weeks dont think mu husbands heart is strong enough :nope: Deb on the 2nd sample did they find any sperms?

Sorry i will have to read your journal from the start, im sure everything im asking will be on there.

Again thank you so so much for allowing me to talk away, hopefully i will be much stronger and ready to face the world in the next few days

Love and hugs to you all xx


----------



## Deb111

You have to realise that you are both in shock right now and you can never underestimate what shock can do. Your husband's reaction and comments at the moment are very normal. It's very hard to deal with because YOU need his support too and it doesn't sound like he can offer that at the moment. As for confiding in people; that's up to you, but I have found I couldn't tell people half the story i.e. that we are having problems and IVF is our only option if even that, without the inane comments of "it will be ok - I know loads of people who have had children through IVF". This is so much more than all that!

Your friend is right about one thing though. We are lucky to be in this age of technology. 10 years ago, the diagnosis will have been the end of the line for our hubbys. SSR / ICSI would not have been an option

I don't know how busy your loves are, but we really had to make some time for us. We went for some long walks. Sometimes we talked about it all, sometimes we didn't really talk at all, but it did us good to get away from the phones, tv, mobiles and just be together. 

You WILL get through this and he WILL get to the point when he's ready to talk to you about it more. It's a good start that you have seen him taking the vitamins. It's a positive step. You could suggest that he might want to confide in a close friend or family member if he doesn't feel he can talk to you about it right now. I suggested that to hubby, which he did (he has now interestingly told EVERYONE we know the full details, which I find very weird but my counsellor says he must be getting something he needs from doing that :shrug:)

They didn't find any sperm in any of his samples but found 3 when they did the SSR. We were told that they were well formed, developed and motile, but they discarded them because they wont freeze for ICSI if less than 100 :cry: so our journey continues ... We're not ready to give up yet as we know he is capable of making 'some' so are busy researching alternatives.

Don't forget that sperm take 90/100 days to develop from start to finish and that you can't have an affect on those that have started to develop, so anything he decides to do in terms of changes in lifestyle, vitamins, exercise etc wont have any effect for 3 months.

What are your plans for christmas? I know it's hard, but you both need to try and enjoy christmas. There really is nothing either of you can do right now. Just keep reminding him that whilst this diagnosis is terrible for you both, they haven't found out he has some terminal illness and that you can get through this but you need to get through it together and with the support of us all here.

I'm not sayng things will get easier right now, but they will soon start to feel less raw and less of a shock.

Big hugs to you :hugs: xx


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## waitingginger

Hi Nayla,

Just wanted to say i am so sorry you are going through this!! my man was also the same when he found out and i wish i could say it got easier but its 8 months down the line for us and its still hard!! My bloke doesnt want to speak about it at all!! i have tried broaching the subject and he just says he doesnt want to talk about it until he knows whats going on!! i have to respect thats what he wants and just wait for the doctors!!
What i would say is keep pushing the doctors make sure you get all the tests you can and you know how long before you get treatment because i havent and it has been a very quiet 8 months when other ppl have had their treatment by now!!

We also still have people staying to us all the time 'oh just relax it will happen' erm hello have you not just heard us say his sperm count is 0! my OH started off not wanting to tell many people because he thought they would laugh at him!! but we get asked so regularly when we are going to have children it was easier to start to tell people or when ppl ask just say we are trying! we were trying for 18 months before we found and we both knew it was a problem with him before we found because i had had tests and was ovulating so regularly its been 2 years and 4 months for us know of TTC. 

Our sperm analysis also said they could see evidence of dead sperm but 'too few to count' we dont know what this means it has been a very slow 8 months we have had a blood test and an ultrasound but we have an apoinment on 22nd so i will be asking about the dead sperm and what it means and then will let you know!!

I am not sure about the slipped disk connection but i do know sperm regenerates every 3 months so sperm is never older then 3 months! 

Its a hard time and it wont always be easier and i think because men dont like to talk about their feeling anyway to then have something like this happen to them makes them shut down even more! but its so frustrating you can always come and vent to us though sometimes we are all down too but atleast we can have a moan!!

:hug: x x x x


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## Pink Lolly

Nayla82 said:


> Hi Ladies
> 
> Firstly from the bottom of my heart I thank you so so much for your fast responses :hugs:
> 
> Debs- Thank you so much for all the information, The Urologist wants him to give a sample on the 28th December and on the 29th they will discuss what they find if anything? This next 2 weeks will be very very tough, not got a clue what to expect? Just want to wake up and we have the 2nd sample. I just hope and pray that its a blockage...
> 
> My husband slipped 3 discs in his back in September? I have read that this can cause the lack of Sperms? Im just trying to get as much knowledge as I can on this topic. We have only known for few days but my husband refuses to talk to me :cry: he will just come in from work and sleep. Hes gone very quiet and told me 'find another man that can give you a child I might as well be a women' :cry: I told him we get through this trial, it will be ok, Im trying to be relaxed but deep deep down i have never felt like this (as if some1 has ripped my heart straight out of me) God bless you ladies you all sound so so strong :hugs:
> 
> I told my husband what ever happens we will do this together. We never thought this would happen :nope: Urologist didnt give him anything his exact words 'go live your life as normal, and i will see you in 2 weeks' for the past year i have bought him male vitamins not once has he took them :nope: last night after dinner i saw him quietly take the vitamin :cry:
> 
> I just feel with my husband when the problem is already there thats when he acts! hes a little over weight after he slipped his disc he had now started being active and avoiding snacks (again i begged him to be healthier 3 years ago) and now they have found ZERO count hes taking his vitamins.
> 
> I remember once my period came i was very upset and went down on my knees and begged him so much to take the sample for a peace of mind (last summer) He would get angry and tell me leave him alone and theres no need for any tests! yet i would go in month after month monitor my ovulation, i took blood tests, they checked if my tubes are blocked with the blue dye,, they did everything not once did any of the professionals say 'it might be your husband' deep deep down I thought it might be a problem... I have every emotion running through my vain.. Empty, sad, angry at him, very very scared ... I dont know how to think straight :nope:
> 
> I will definitely ask them to centrifuge the sample, as it just takes 1 to make a baby. Thank you again for that.
> 
> Have you told anyone about this? I told my best friend of 12 years last night and she said to me 'oh it will be ok just do IVF or Adopt' im like WHAT? as you mentioned no1 really knows whats going on just you.. She also said chill were in 2010 good technology, Again maybe i should not have told her, as it seems like she thinks im upset over nothing?? Ladies since i have been married i breath live and dream of being a mother :cry:
> 
> So sorry for sounding so so depressed, my heart cant stop beating fast im afraid people can see it :cry:
> 
> Flake-y- I wish you all the best with IVF we deserve happiness at the end of all this :hugs:, All my family and friends are in Scotland, we moved down to london 5 Months ago with husbands job, im so so ALONE down here :cry:
> 
> I really wish I can jump through the screen and give you both a huge hug. I will stay on this forum now theres really no need for me to be anywhere else.. woow it all happened in a blink of an eye.
> 
> Im so scared it will be ZERO again in 2weeks dont think mu husbands heart is strong enough :nope: Deb on the 2nd sample did they find any sperms?
> 
> Sorry i will have to read your journal from the start, im sure everything im asking will be on there.
> 
> Again thank you so so much for allowing me to talk away, hopefully i will be much stronger and ready to face the world in the next few days
> 
> Love and hugs to you all xx

Hi Nayla

So sorry to hear your news and sadly know exactly how you feel. My DH had his results of his first SA on 19th November and we found he had zero sperm. We were so devestated - when the GP told us I felt like the world stopped and I couldn't hear what he was saying any more. It sounds extreme but I almost felt like someone had died, or that something had been taken from me.

I can honestly say I cried non stop for the whole weekend and it really knocked me for six. I felt devestated, angry, upset and resentful that this had happened to us and I know my DH felt the same too. His second SA is next Tuesday and we have already geared ourselves up for the same news again. 

So I know it isn't any consolation, but you're not alone. When we first got our results, I found this thread and it helped me come to terms with it all. But it takes time and it is understandable to be devestated. Even now after a few weeks, I still break down in tears from time to time but we are trying to focus on the way forward. 

We have our first appointment with a consultant at the end of January and I can't wait for that so that we can find out a bit more.

Take care and keep in touch xx :hugs2:


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## loobylou_01

Hi Nayla, 

We are another couple who are suffering from azoo. My DH was diagnosed on 30 Dec 2009 and lets say it was a terrible start to the new year. Like pink lolly says the room just swirled around us both and we were so shocked. We'd been TTC for 18 months at that point and my bloods had come back fine.

However we have got through it together and we are definitely a stronger couple for it. We had our first cycle of IVF in july/august this year and although we were gutted when the ssr was unsuccessful - sperm was found but it was abnormal and therefore despite not knowing that this was a possibility we had to decide there and then whether we wanted to try the cycle with DH's sperm or use the donor sperm that we had lined up 'just in case'. anyway my amazing dh felt we should use the donor sperm as he wanted us the best possible chance to have a baby - i was too upset to make any kind of choice. So we went ahead and used the donor sperm and as you can see from my ticker we're 21 weeks pregnant.

Been a massive rollercoaster and we still think about it everyday but we are pregnant and having a much wanted baby and who knows what the future treatments etc will bring.

Good luck and take care, all the girls who are going/been through this are fab and i don't think any of us could cope without each other at times

xx


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## Nayla82

You ladies are my Guardian Angels, I cried as I read each one of your msg's really close to home :cry:

This is our 4th day of knowing and I dont even recognise the Man I married hes so angry and he blames me for nagging him and making him do the test :cry: I dont know why hes so so angry towards me? He even told me he will throw my laptop in the bin if he sees me on it?? :cry::cry:

Im just trying to educate myself on the subject, I really want to shout at him im hurting just as much as him! his results were MY RESULTS also :cry:, Looking up vitamins is for OUR benefit. And being on this thread is a breather to know I have people that encourage me that there might still be hope. 

When ever i tell him subtly the success rates of ICSI or vitamins that he must start soon, he just yells:

'shut up shut up!! I need my space your obsessed even though I have done the test your are still obsessed!" You know ladies I was excited of being a mom and maybe i was into charting tempting, now its all changed, im not obsessed anymore, I have gone crazy over something else how to get him healthy again! Woow for the past 15Months I have been so excited in my 2WW, Going to be weird to let this cycle come and go and know for a fact its a ZERO chance that I am pregnant :cry: i still feel its not hit me?? and I still will symptom spot and think im pregnant? that all i have been used to for so so long.. :cry: 

Yesterday we tried to carry on as usual and do a little Xmas shopping I broke down in the toilets, everywhere were mothers with Babies and pregnant women.. and lovely baby shops.. I almost collapsed I just told my DH I missed lunch and was getting stuffy, I couldnt tell him my TRUE feelings, I used to get so excited seeing new mothers and knowing soon that would me! now my whole world turned black .. Yes it feels like a death has happened.

Oh Goodness, Im feeling so ALONE. The anger my husband has towards me :cry: this morning I tried to be strong and initiate sex to show him i still love him.. His words: 

" I know you dont want it! your just doing it to be polite I cant get you pregnant so dont bother' and he broke down.. Im doing my best to be normal. I told him you dont have a disease! its still in function and I love you its a problem that soon will be fixed! he rolled over and said leave me alone.. its walking on eggshells.. saying he would have been happier not knowing and the lord would have helped us!! I told him how can we get pregnant with ZERO SPERM, his words were that i have lost faith in God... :cry: Instead of knowing that theres a problem, that science might be able to fix hes still angry he did the test??? :shrug: and 100% fixed it would have happened naturally.... hes making me feel guilty that i made him do the test! and what scares me sooo much ladies ok we let 16Months slip by, imagine if he was still stubborn for another 16Months :cry: At least we know what the problem is and its not 'unexplained fertility'

I know ladies with anything in life times a healer..for 15 Month NOT A SOUL knew we were TTC not even my mother, Now what do i say? we have been trying for well over 1 year and my husband does not have Sperms?? :cry:

I just hope and pray over Christmas no one brings it up, I will probably break down, while my usual answer would be very soon.. :nope:

We will be going up North to spend Christmas day with my family and I will be surrounded by babies and kids, just wished Christmas was over now and i can focus on this. I love Xmas so so much but now :nope: will be tough to be merry when its so so heavy on my mind!

Pink Lolly- Its Tuesday 28th also my husband gets to do the 2nd test, you will be in my prayers x I dont know if im just being stupid or naive but im telling myself the sample will definitely have some, it just has to! :cry: Maybe im setting myself for a 2nd crush to the heart, but another ZERO Noo Lord please it has to be some. I guess were in this waiting period together :hugs: Is your husband talking anything Dear at the moment? The urologist gave nothing.. But I have made him take FertilAid for Men has Zinc and all sorts inside it?? Hope its a MAGIC pill :cry:

Debs- I read alot on the TurkClinic he sounds amazing!! and yes even with 5 im sure that will be ample to make your baby xx They emailed me within hours asking for a phone interview, I will see what 2nd sample says? but I will get back to them either way. If it means going to America I will ask my family for a little help with £ and im willing to go over... I want OUR babies more than anything...

Looby-lou- Huge congratulations on your pregnancy, Well done you deserve it xx I have not thought of a sperm doner and i dare to ask husband about it just yet.. if there is no way i may consider it?? .. Its a personal question Dear you dont have to answer, but would you tell your baby that He/She was a sperm doner? or as far as the babies concerned He/She is made from you both?? Again sorry for the question Im thinking would i tell or would i keep it to myself? I have soooo much running through my brains. I would consider it before adoption though, as i want to FEEL AND BE pregnant :cry: my heads spinning right now....

WaitingGinger- Thank you again for your kind words, will update everyone on here. 8Months is such a long time to wait in limbo, Im also eager to know with the DEAD SPERM found is there more dead ones hidden in there? can they bring it to life..? I have soo many questions in my head.. What i find out in the next test will share with everyone. 

My husband said he will go alone on tuesday 28th and when he gets the results on the 29th :cry: he does NOT WANT ME THERE, those words killed me, even though this is about US he still feels its not my business and to leave him alone.. Which I will :nope: Just want to feel loved again.. this is the time we need each other the most, yet its all my fault??

I just hope hes just going to get over the shock as im worried stress will tarnish his next sample :shrug: and realise either way IVF or ICSI is the next step whether he wants to believe it or not, the old fashioned way was not in our destiny :cry:

I went online quickly while he went to the garage, I bettr get going before it will be a reason for him to have a go at me :cry:

Again thank you so so much for your precious time and information, and i will try and pop in daily. Have a lovely weekend.

Love and hugs x


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## Flake-y

Nayle, so sorry you & your DH are having such a hard time; it's so awful, and I can't imagine how your DH will be feeling.

When we got the diagnosis, I tried to boost my DH's ego as much as possible; another girl with the same problem suggested I say things like "you're such a stud if you'd had sperm you'd probably have hundreds of children by loads of different women by now!" It was just a joke but it made him laugh & cheered him up. And I'd say things like "it's always the best looking guys that have this problem, the ugly ones all get to reproduce when they shouldn't"! Again, just a joke but it certainly helped to puff up his ego.

Maybe when the diagnosis is so fresh it's not the best time for jokes, but just making him realise that you still love him & the sperm thing doesn't matter might help him come to terms with it & will hopefully make you stronger as a couple.

The way he's acting is not helping at all, but he will be hurt, embarrassed & probably frightened that you might leave him. It's maybe just his way of dealing with it, although it is hurting you.

Hoping & praying that the 2nd SA comes back with better news for you. :hug:


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## Nayla82

Thank you Flake-Y you are correct hopefully within time I will be strong enough to crack some jokes I would love to get to that stage.. :thumbup: and I will do anything to see my husband smile again, he really is a BROKEN MAN,

He lost his Mother at the start of the year god bless her soul, Slipped discs in his back recently, and now this :cry: My heart bleeds for him, I try not to upset myself when he gets angry and shouts at me. Really has been a rotten year on so many levels. i pray 2011 will bring us 1% of Joy [-o&lt;[-o&lt;

I have read when Doctors say its better the man having the problem than the women? as its simple to fix the problem?? Did you women secretly wish that it was yourselves and not your partner? :shrug: As i feel im much stronger than him and more open to go and get poked and prodded at if necessary.. I just want to take ALL HIS PAIN, I dont want to jinx myself! knowing my luck when everything will be ready for ICSI I will probably have something :cry: I just feel that everything that can goes wrong does go wrong?? I must always think of the worse case scenarios :nope:

My husband never ever dreams, this morning he woke up crying will i leave him? and i cheated on him? I said NO WAY! he said I will not blame you if you did... My goodness it will be 3 years of marriage in May 2011 and I took my vows seriously, sickness and in health.. Never ever will i cheat on him. He tosses and turns and I dont know what horrors are going through his poor head :cry: I also had a bad dream last night, my husband was crying telling me it isnt going to look good, be prepared.. I just wish I can get through this unknown period very very quickly! (and on christmas week! thats the icing on the cake :nope:)

I really wish I can come back in here in a few weeks saying it was a bad sample and he has millions in there, WISHFUL THINKING :cry: alot of cases that I have read states 90% of 2nd sample is also zero.. also I dont know if I mentioned that he had white blood cells in the sample? not sure if you ladies know what that means? I know it fights bacteria? but has it killed the sperms?? I dont know? times like I now I wished I studies Medicine at unversity... It gets all confusing :wacko: 

Love and hugs to all, and keep warm what a bitter day it is x


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## Deb111

Sorry haven't got much time to post at the moment, but just came across this which may be helpful. It seems that IF the white blood cells are very high they could be causing an issue but think they can treat as they can be present due to an infection so if infection is cleared white blood count will lower

"White Blood Cells:
The semen may contain a high number of white blood cells, which may be an indication of either infection or inflammation. White blood cells are considered significant if more than one million are found in each milliliter of the ejaculate.

White blood cells cannot be differentiated from other round cells normally found in the semen (debris and immature sperm) without special staining. If more than one million round cells are found in the ejaculate, a portion of the ejaculate should be specially stained to look for an increased number of white blood cells.

If the white blood cell count is elevated, semen cultures should be performed on a subsequent specimen. Unfortunately, the semen culture cannot be performed on the original specimen as it must be the first step performed on the specimen in order to keep it sterile. "


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## april4jdg

white blood cells means infection somewhere in the body-It could be a cold, or just anything...

They won't do IUI'S or IVF'S if there are too many white blood cells an the SA...

We are in the same boat you are. we are waiting on DH's biopsy on Jan 6..

I read you previous posts... It is so hard to deal with people who do not deal with infertility issues making comments like- "oh get ivf, or adopt"

When people hear infertility issues- they assume usually either it is the woman's "fault" or the man has low sperm count...

They never think that a SA can come back 0.

I never did. Until we had 2 come back 0.

They are reasons for azoospermia- non obstructive and obstructive... educate yourself. Lots of good books on Amazon. Did your doctor give any other results from SA? like volume? if it is low- it can be due to blockages, etc- fsh level? 

Where have you read slipped disks can cause azoospermia? I thought I saw that somewhere...DH has trouble with his back as well- on L-3, L-4 he has had epidurals for it too-but when we got the azoo diagnosis- the RE never said anything- so I just let it kinda let it go.

Just know- you are not alone- anything you are feeling- just know we do/have have felt that way too. And when you feel like you can't talk to someone that understands...you can come here- because we understand perfectly. : )


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## Pink Lolly

Nayla - yes we are going through the horrible wait together and it is true that it is awful timing with Chrtistmas etc, but at least that will help the time go by more quickly...

I know you can't see it now but you will start to feel better soon. We got our results four weeks ago yesterday and I have never felt so devestated in my life. I had to be signed off work with stress for 2 weeks because I kept crying, couldn't sleep and I think it is understandable as it is such a shock. But now four weeks on I feel much more positive and I can't wait to get the next SA done and move onto the next stage. 

When we got our results, the GP we saw was fantastic and he was the one who said to my DH that even if no sperm is found, we could consider a donor. My DH had never heardof a donor and he said that made him feel better, as he could see that we still had a chance even if the worst case happens - it's not the end of the road. Maybe your DH might feel the same? 

Initially my DH was very positive about it all, but he did break down a couple of weeks ago saying he felt worthless and guilty that 'he was stopping me having a baby'. That was a turning point for me to be honest because I realised that me being miserable was making things worse for him as he was feeling guilty.At that point I decided to try to pull myself together and although I still feel devestated, I am being as strong as I can for him. I went back to work and tried to restore some normaility to our lives and I think we both feel a bit better now.

I can understand why you're hoping for a better sample next time around but we have opted for the 'self preservation' approach and are already expecting a zero count again (that way we will be over the moon if it's any better!). In fact, we just want to get it out of the way so that we can start to do whatever is next.

Interestingly my DH felt I was spending too long reading things online and said I was making things worse by going over and over it. But when I came across this thread, I told him that I had met some girls online who were going through or had gone through the same and I read some of the messages I had to him. He completely changed his mind and said he could see how it was helping me and I think it made him feel better that hes not the only one.

I'm sure things will settle down for you soon - it is such early days. I know my DH felt like I was going on and on about it at one point and racing ahead so we have agreed to take one step at a time now. I expect your DH just needs some time to come to terms with it all and it must be a thousand times worse for the DHs. If you have got someone you can confide in then it would really help, as you need support. We have told both sets of parents and couldn't have got through it without them.

Take care and Keep in touch xxx


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## Deb111

Hi Pink

So glad to hear you sounding more positive about things. I hope you are able to get some answers and move on to whatever the next step is for you very soon 

Hugs 
Deb xx :hugs:


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## Pink Lolly

Deb111 said:


> Hi Pink
> 
> So glad to hear you sounding more positive about things. I hope you are able to get some answers and move on to whatever the next step is for you very soon
> 
> Hugs
> Deb xx :hugs:

Thanks Deb

It seems strange - only a couple of weeks ago I was the newby here but now I am feeling stronger and can try to comfort others like you all did for me :kiss:. 

My GP made a referrel to the fertilility clinic before DH had done a SA. So although DHs 2nd SA isn't until next week, I have already got the consultant appointment through for 20th Jan so it has sped things up a bit. I am really looking forward to it just to see what happens next and I feel like the ball is starting to roll. Hope you're doing OK xx


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## Nayla82

Good Morning Ladies.

Debs- Thank you for the white cells information, I guess it not anything too serious that i should i worry about.

Again thank you ALL for your Kind Words. I think I have read everything I can on Azoospermia but i still feel confused about certain things and trying to hold on to hope :cry:

I cant really seem to find Whats more popular the blocked or unblocked Azoospermia? I would appreciate any knowledge? Do you think theres a high chance he was born with it or did it happen overtime? his brother has 5 children so I don't think its genetic or maybe?

Urologist gave NO added information, just come back on the 28th and do the 2nd test. No blood tests? hormone tests? just wants to see 2nd test (worst thing my husband does not want me to be there when he gets the 2nd results so hoping and praying he tells me every information they found, I don't want him to keep it to himself) As his exact words were:

'i dont want to know and i dont care about other peoples success stories as there not mine!' He's very very upset and keeps telling me to wake up! hes a realist and im a dreamer! hate his attitude when he says theres a 90% chance we will never have our biological kids, he told me last night get used to the idea of having no kids will be hard for the first few weeks but we will get used to it... :cry::cry: NO WAY! I want to adopt or anything!! How can i just agree and say 'yes dear we will just carry on' I cant ladies I really cant.. :nope: Again I hope and pray its ANGER talking not him. I feel like he wants to give up now! Theres no fighting left in him?? and hopefully if i move on to IVF OR ICSI i need him to be supportive as it may not work 1st time.. theres a longgg road ahead of us and i need him to be STRONG.

I just want to live in my bubble 'they will find sperms put it in me and i will be pregnant ' i tremble at other thoughts... :nope:

Also ladies Have you read anywhere (MY IDEAL SITUATION) where it can just be a blockage and when they unblock the problem you can go ahead have sex and get pregnant naturally? or either way IVF OR ICSI will be on the cards?

I feel my brian will blow with all the information, When i stop looking up information i feel GUILTY im not doing my part.. and i really cant see much information online that will tell be IT WILL BE FINE? But I thank the lord for this thread..

April- Thank you so much for your warm words x. In regards to the slipped discs, i have been jumping through one site to another but i will try and find the quote in regards to slipped and hernia dics, definitely a link with low/zero sperm..

Take care love and hugs xx

Your all in my prayers xx


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## april4jdg

Sounds like your husband has given up. My husband- he said- well atleast I know how you felt for 11+ months of ttc... That wasn't the best, but I understood what he meant... after he saw me going through the upset, he felt it too now... 

I have read it is better to talk to men while they are doing something like fishing, or on a walk-they will open up more...
You can rarely just sit them down for a chat, like us women do...

anyway-let him now there are different types of azoo, that have successes...
you said there was one dead sperm, right? So he is atleast producing some.

it may be obstructive, with a variocele, or anything- that surgery corrects. it is very early for you all now... You cannot let it eat you up- it will put a strain on your marriage...

It can be hormonal-and they get put on meds for a few months and it corrects itself-
It is too early to write it off as - you will never have kids-

I told my husband, I married you-unconditionally, and even if I knew about it before we got married, I would have still married you. This changes nothing- for love is unconditional.

I am surprised your doctor didn't give you any of the other results-
ours told us volume was good- everything was good- except fsh was slightly elevated at 17.5, ph level etc...
Our RE told us of the azoospermia- then had DH do another sample with a local urologist and a physical exam-and the results there were 0- then we got referred to another urologist for a biopsy.


Dh is probably going through a range of emotions-like, embarrassment- which most guys turn it to anger when they are embarrased.
Shock, and other things...

My DH just clammed up (and I am a talker...lol But I had to remember that is how some guys deal) when I confronted him, he said- what do you want me to say-this is the hand we have been dealt- I'll do whatever I need to do to see if I can have a baby- biopsy- SA, whatever. But for now this is the hand that we have been dealt. We will be parents- one way or the other- we will do IVF-ICSI, if possible, or we will adopt.


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## Deb111

Nayla - as far as the IVF / ICSI is concerned, we were told that if it was a blockage, they would probably not repair it, just get the sperm out and use if for ICSI. We were told the success rate of correcting a blockage which is on a very small scale is not very reliable.

I know it's hard and you have to respect your hubby's wishes, but it is a real shame that he wont let you go with him. Could you write down a list of things for him to ask, or try to get another appt for you so that you can go and get the information that you need. You need some answers and some information too. My experience is, that with the best will in the world; men come away having listened to 50% of what they are told and remember about 10% of that! :dohh:

Whilst I think about it (and hopefully others here will add to the list), some of the tests that you need to be asking about are

- FSH, LH and testosterone level blood tests
- blood test for Y chromosome micro-deletion
- test for presence of fructose in sperm sample as the absence of this indicates a likely blockage
- karyotype blood test
- blood test for cytstic fibrosis carrier

The results of these will tell you a lot about the cause, although we were told the only sure way to know if there are sperm is to do the SSR. Until those tests are done, there is no way of knowing whether it is obstructive or non obstructive

:hugs: xx


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## april4jdg

Deb111 said:


> Nayla - as far as the IVF / ICSI is concerned, we were told that if it was a blockage, they would probably not repair it, just get the sperm out and use if for ICSI. We were told the success rate of correcting a blockage which is on a very small scale is not very reliable.
> 
> I know it's hard and you have to respect your hubby's wishes, but it is a real shame that he wont let you go with him. Could you write down a list of things for him to ask, or try to get another appt for you so that you can go and get the information that you need. You need some answers and some information too. My experience is, that with the best will in the world; men come away having listened to 50% of what they are told and remember about 10% of that! :dohh:
> 
> Whilst I think about it (and hopefully others here will add to the list), some of the tests that you need to be asking about are
> 
> - FSH, LH and testosterone level blood tests
> - blood test for Y chromosome micro-deletion
> - test for presence of fructose in sperm sample as the absence of this indicates a likely blockage
> - karyotype blood test
> - blood test for cytstic fibrosis carrier
> 
> The results of these will tell you a lot about the cause, although we were told the only sure way to know if there are sperm is to do the SSR. Until those tests are done, there is no way of knowing whether it is obstructive or non obstructive
> 
> :hugs: xx

I agree! Men don't think to ask that stuff- maybe you can send a list of questions with him!


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## Flake-y

As far as we were told, there are 2 types of azoo; obstructive, or non-obstructive. I don't think either one or the other is more likely.

The obstructive is caused by a blockage, and as Deb said, they won't repair it, they would do an SSR, then do ICSI. I think in obstructive azoo there is the highest chance of sperm retrieval.

The non-obstructive can be caused by lots of different things; a hormone imbalance, a birth defect, or in (possibly) my DH's case, a severe case of mumps. I know there are some guys who are given meds & they start producing sperm again, although from what we were told, there is less chance of getting sperm if the problem is non-obstructive.

I think, apart from blood tests, the only way of knowing whether there is sperm is to do the SSR op. I think each case is different though, hope your urologist gives you some more answers when you go!


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## Nayla82

Thank you again for your very helpful answers :flower:

Deb- I just jotted down all those questions, really I thank you again, as I dont know what to be looking for or asking for? Those questions are safe in my diary when needed i will ask ASAP.

Jo- Thank you for your msg, You have cleared it up for me, I need to get it in my head that either way i will have to have ICSI or IVF Ouch in typing that, never ever did I feel it would get this far :nope: Im still in my little bubble thinking if i secretly have sex with him this week i will get pregnant as im in my fertile window... :cry: I just need to WAKE UP.. I have been so used to timing sex and :sex: around Ovulation going to be feel weird not charting opking and everything else. (im so in denial thinking his :spermy: will get to me naturally sooner or later)

What topped it off for me, An hour ago i got a phone call from the nurse confirming my IUI for tomorrow and to come early, I told her the Gyno cancelled it and told me she would have informed you? :growlmad: really just adding salt to the raw cut. I keep thinking if hubbys Sample came back ok, we would have had IUI tomorrow :cry: as i type i feel strong Ovulation pains and i have been having alot of EWCM (sorry TMI) but my body was more than ready for IUI, but here I am a whole new situation. Im sure many more periods will come and go, I need to sit tight as its a longggg road ahead of me.

On a positive note my husband opened up to me for the 1st time since getting the results, His words were we might need to do IVF :blush: bless him on the little he knows. Told me hes very scared and he knows how much being a mom means to me etc etc. I said dont worry we will overcome this lets take each day as it comes, i said you are my superman and we will overcome it. His reply was i might as well be your superwomen! its really got him questioning his manhood?? I told him if i didnt have breasts or had no eggs? I would not say im less of a women! I said its a problem that will be fixed we have to unite as 1. (I thank the Lord hes talking to me)

I told him about this forum than a million questions he was asking me! (i was secretly happy about the fact he wants to know) :thumbup: he was like theres other people also? how long were they TTC? whats happened? what have they done? do they have kids? etc etc.. I just told him theres a handful of us and its a supportive group and were all in the process. Didnt want to scare him.

I told him ICSI does not mean it will be done than im pregnant, i said it can not work and mayb 3 or 4 times is needed. His words were every time they do ICSI will they have to slice my balls? I honestly dont know? unless 1st ssr they freeze whatever they find? But it was a valid question? Do any of you ladies know with every IVF and ICSI will SSR be NEEDED? Hes so scared when it comes to surgery.

April- The hands that we have been dealt. I really love that saying and its so so true either way we will have kids and im open for adoption also, but the baby has to be NEWBORN, I know beggers cant choose much in life, but I just want a baby fresh from the womb which I can raise and love from day one. I also heard its very difficult to adopt newborns as theres a waiting list, usually there much older when it comes to adoption. Again i will not jump that far, and try to concentrate on the present.. So many things are whizzing in my head :wacko:

Also April you are correct, Even though it was a ZERO COUNT and 1 DEAD you are correct he must be producing something deep within? and i told him some results are ZERO ZERO and women have gone to have pregnancies I said hold on to that 1 DEAD SPERM must be more hidden inside? it will be 1 week tomorrow since we found out, been a very weird week and very blurry indeed.

Im feeling a little stronger today, mainly because hubby chatted to me and hes willing to learn and prepare for the worst or the best situations?. 

I cant believe the weight thats has dropped off me was 7ST.5 last week and I weighed myself this morning and im just hitting 7 stones. This is not healthy at all and if i have to prepare my body for IVF and drugs maybe a multiple pregnancy, I need to gain weight. the problem is that when im stressed i find it difficult to even nibble. I need to keep thinking my bits have to be 100% last thing I need is that if they find sperms than my eggs start playing up... 
That will not be the case fingers crossed.

over christmas i will eat everything around that should do the trick. I have to hang in there now and see what 2nd semen sample says.. im very very nervous.

Has anyones read or seen the 1st sample to be zero than the 2nd sample to have a few hundreds or millions? or is it usually a fact that the 2nd semen analysis will always be identicle to the 1st?? Again I just dont want to have my hopes high that there will be a few 1000 next week? will be better if i know for a FACT another ZERO will be on the cards??

Hope you all have a lovely week and thank you in advance for your kind and warm replies :hugs:


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## april4jdg

I can't speak for others, but just for me and DH. His 2nd SA was a zero as well...
Then he had an appointment for a urologist- that did the physical exam and the 2nd SA.
That is when we got scheduled for the biopsy. They will put him under and do the biopsy. They then immediately rush the tissue to the embryologist and they examine it under the microscope. If they find any sperm cells, then they will freeze them to later do he ICSI-IVF. 

It is tough for guys- There are a lot of good books- I have a TON! and webstes like this one, and another one I go to called www.thebump.com I am on the infertility board there- they have a check-in on Thursdays with azoospermia.


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## Deb111

Hi Nayla,

It is really good to hear that your husband is taking some small steps towards accepting this and that this is helping you too. You come out of the hospital feeling very alone and like you are the only ones going throught this. It will take a lot of time, but even small steps are good and the fact that he's asking questions is great.

Maybe he will reach the point where he is happy to let you go to the appt with him. Perhaps telling him that you are feeling helpless in all of this and need to be able to be there to support him may help. I'm glad he is more open to you being on sites such as this because you do need to arm yourself with information and support from others going through the same. I think it's pretty fair to say that none of us are likely to meet someone in 'real life' who is going through the same so this group is a god-send.

With regard to the sperm sample; our second one came back the same as the first. But we didn't have the worry at that stage, because we'd mistakenly been sent a letter saying the first sample was 'normal' but that they always did a second one for comparison, so we were unaware until our appt when we were shocking asked "so you know there's a major problem with your husband?"?!?!?!? We were totally unaware because of their error. I think it's quite probable to assume that the 2nd sample wont show anything very much different, but that doesn't mean there's not things that they MAY be able to do to help, depending on the outcome of other tests.

With the SSR, they will do the procedure and if they find any they are likely to freeze them (unless you time your cycle and egg collection with the SSR - in which case they would freeze any excess sperm). If they have enough, they will use it for additional cycles, if not, he may have to have the surgery again.

With regards to your weight, you need to see what your BMI is, which you can do if you google it. Most hospitals will not do IVF / ICSI if your BMI is too low or too high and so it may be something you need to look into now rather than 'wasting time' further down the line. I know I have to get my BMI down and I'm working on that now.

I'm really sorry about the IUI phonecall - that was really bad organisation on the part of the clinic and I'm sure it was very hard for you xx :hugs:


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## Nayla82

Thank you a million Debs for your honest and warm responses :hugs: really appreciate it xx may the lord reward you for your sweetness xx

I read your msgs over and over again so i don't miss anything :blush: it all makes perfect sense. I must inject in my head that it may also be a ZERO so i don't upset myself more than I am.

It makes perfect sense, i will try and make sure his SSR is the same time when I'm ovulating so we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone :thumbup: and do ICSI at the same time. I know it will never be that straight forwRd.
that would be ideal

Can frozen sperms live for along time? Just thinking how long they can store them for?

I have not read much on IvF but i think i need to educate myself on this now 
:dohh: my BMI is under, I'm sure I'll get rejected if i don't put weight on, i don't want to hinder any chances of getting pregnant :nope: I need sort this out asap . My husbands words earlier were soon the boat will be in your court so you better look after yourself and be popping those eggs :dohh: if it makes him feel better, no pressure on me :wacko:

April- thank u so much for your quick answer x will definitely have a nosey in that link, it makes sense everything will have to be done very fast and of course with professional medics, as its a very sensitive procedure getting those little sperms safely from A-B. I'm definitely getting all my information in here rather than spending hours googling :blush:

I'm so happy the fact that my husband does not mind me online now, as he knows I'm talking to "real women" as its so true deb what are the chances of meeting someone in real life that has the same problem?? Its so crazy this time last week i was a happy camper did not even know Zero sperm really existed :nope: it all changed last Tuesday, 1 week almost over , the pain has to get better, just has to

So sorry if I'm ranting on like a crazy women on this thread :blush: I really have no where else to go, you really are my angels :hugs:

I have faith in the Lord that this will all be a thing of the past :hugs: health and happiness is what i want for Christmas x

You are all lovely women with beautiful souls and hearts i so pray we all get to be mothers soon.

Thank you again Ladies for cooling of the heart x :hugs:


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## Deb111

One thing I said to my husband when he had his diagnosis - and I think this kind of helped us to focus on the way ahead - is that nothing changed on the day we were told. The azoospermia had been there for a long time, maybe since birth, who knows? but it wasn't as if the day we were told, he stopped producing sperm. The only thing in reality that changed is that we found out. When we were oblivious to the problem, there was no way we could have had a child (little did we know) but now you know, you can start getting tests and answers and hopefully find a way forward.

Lots of love to you both xx


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## waitingginger

your messages are starting to sound more positive Nayla thats good!!

Once you come out of these dark times you will be so much stronger ready to face anything!! i would always say me and my OH were super close and in love and couldnt be anymore but since we found out we have actually just got even stronger and more in love! we face things together! yeah we both get upset i balled my eyes out the other day because my brother in law had put on facebook 'me and harry chilling on the sofa having cuddles and watching in the night garden' it just got me!! my OH cant sleep and is having nightmares every single night its taken him a long time to come to turns with it and i dont think he fully has still but he knows i love him! he always says he doesnt want to discuss anythign until we know if there is any sperm in there! and to be honest i am not going to force the issue because i know he will have to talk about with the doctor at the fertility hospital so i am just going to leave it for now!! i dont want him thinking about it all day because i know it is all i think about!! to go from obsessing about TTC and charting and to still be ovulating is like a kick in the teeth but i try to stay positive that at least we shouldnt have a problem with whichever treatment we have to have!!

Now i just keep thinking well atleast when our baby gets here it will be the most longed for baby and will be spoilt to death and we will love it so much because of all we went through to have him. some babies are more special and ours will be even more so because there must be a reason why we had to work so hard for them right??!

My OH still says to me now you could go and find someone who would get you pregnant tomorrow. i think its just when he is feeling a bit down anyway like when i moan when i have PMT :winkwink: all you can do is keep reassuring him you are doing it together its not just his results its 'your results'. my bloke actually felt loads better once he started to tell his brothers and mom and things because everyone was concerned and caring and are actually really interested in the treatment and where we are up to and things and i think it makes him feel better plus nobody asks when we are going to have children any more!!! 

I will log back on wed afternoon to let you all know how the appointment goes!! Just writing my list of questions for the consultant and am so annoyed with myself that i havent pushed for any answers before now i think my brain had just been in a premanent muddle about it all since april!!! because you have no answers and no reasons you cant move on!!

Much love x x x x


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## Deb111

waitingginger said:


> I will log back on wed afternoon to let you all know how the appointment goes!! Just writing my list of questions for the consultant and am so annoyed with myself that i havent pushed for any answers before now i think my brain had just been in a premanent muddle about it all since april!!! because you have no answers and no reasons you cant move on!!
> 
> Much love x x x x

Wishing you all the best with your appt on wed xx :hugs:


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## Flake-y

Nayla, so glad your DH has started talking to you & opening up. Hopefully he is coming to terms with it all & will be feeling a bit more positive now.

With regards to the SSR, we were told that the urologist will try to get as much sperm as possible from the op; this can either be done from aspiration of the fluid from the tubes that carried the semen, or from testicular biopsies, depends on what the problem is. I think they freeze what are called 'straws' of sperm, each straw is used in one cycle of ICSI. How many straws they get depends on how many sperm are found but if it's just a blockage, then you'd probably get plenty of sperm so your DH wouldn't have to go through the op every time.

Then, they will freeze it & thaw it when you are getting your ICSI. You don't need to worry about timing the SSR for when you are ovulating, during ICSI the clinic will control your cycle with medications so you won't have to worry about timing.

I think some clinics will time the egg collection part of the ICSI with the SSR, so that the sperm is used straight away, although if they don't find any then donor sperm would need to be on standby so that the cycle of ICSI is not wasted. 

It sounds really complictated but you will find out so much information on your journey you will end up a sperm expert!!!!!


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## Nayla82

Good Morning Ladies :flower:

Thank you ever so much for your reply Jo wow your really cleared it up, and your right im sure with the whole timing thing they know what they are doing and what ever they find they will be stored in a very safe place :thumbup:

I really hope and pray they find something next week [-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;

Cant believe its been 1Week today that we got the news, What a dark and depressing week its been! But i will get a grip and the show must go on! whether i like it or not, there is a problem and there MUST be a solution :thumbup:

WaitingGinger- Looking forward for the news that they will give you and what your next course is? I really hope 2011 will be magic for you :dust:

My husband 2nd analysis is next tuesday, vry vry nervous, How many days should he wait? i want the maximum sample that he can give? 2 days 3 days? how many days did your partners wait before their semen analysis?

I really want this weekend to go quickly, sad as it is :nope: as i love christmas! need to see whats happening x

take care and thank you again xx

love and hugs :hugs:


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## Deb111

We were told hubby should abstain for 2 - 4 days before giving a sample, but when I said "oh maybe our timing was out" when we got our second result, we were told it really wont make THAT much difference in cases like this. xx


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## april4jdg

Yeah- same here! The first SA DH did, it had been 7 or 8 days-because we had timed sex so much ttc, I was disgusted, and didn't even want to try anymore...When the nurse called back and said, it was 0, I said, "well, I know you are supposed to abstain, but it has been a while, like a week... " and she said "yeah, but he should have had some in the sample."

So, on 2nd SA it was 3 days...but it was 0 too...

But like I said earlier-they said he had one dead sperm, sooo, that mean they are getting made,they just will have to find out what is happening...


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## Nayla82

Thank you ladies I think i will let him abstain 4-5 days just to see.

The sad thing is that we have been talking to each other openly as if they will DEFINITELY find sperms and we will go on and have kids and live happily ever after. I think were both in denial and were chatting away like they have already found sperms and when will i be ovulating next for IVF?? Its crazy we need to know it will take more time and more heartache to get my :baby: I just love that were chatting away with that feeling it will be ok :nope:

I dont know why today I had a panic attack? Im feeling very over whelmed with it all, its all i eat breath and sleep Azoospermia :cry: Last week didnt even know what it was...

Please keep me in your Prayers I just feel I dont have 1% of the strength that you women have.. im thinking also fingers crossed they find something than with ICSI we have to wait again... alot of patience is needed in this very long journey :hugs: of TTC


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## Nayla82

Morning Ladies :flower:

Hope everyone is well and ready for Christmas, Not long left! Well the best we can be anyway :hugs:

Waiting ginger- I really hope it goes well today and you get good feedback :thumbup: Looking forward to see what was discussed. I hope it works our for you Hun :hugs:

I just feel like im getting myself so worked up cant seem to shake off my panic attacks? . Ladies sorry for being a pain :blush: but in regards to the Semen Analysis when you got both results back was it ZERO ZERO? or were there dead ones in there? I mean was it black and white NOTHING in the sample?? So sorry for asking?? or when they saw the dead ones they didnt bother to mention them and say that they were ZERO SAMPLE?

I have just read the full thread all morning (God bless you women your all tough cookies, it scares me to think I have a longggg road ahead of me!) It seems that SSR isnt that Magical?? :cry: It seems like they either find nothing? or when they do there not really any use? or they just find a couple that NHS will not entertain??

Deb I have read alot on dr Turks clinic and ive read it over and over again! please do fight again as im more than certain if they were healthy i know it was just a couple they can still use it in ICSI! No way 100 is minimum as it just takes that 1, I hope and pray you will get the anwsers you need, im 100% Certain within time you will have your own baby :hugs: just question them till your blue in the face! xx

Im so sorry again for being the dull one on this thread but i so wish and pray next weeks sample will be a good one so i can start 2011 on a high :shrug:

Imagine next christmas we all have babies or pregnant!! Also does ICSI mean you will have twins? or will you have to ask them put 2 eggs in?? Im just thinking I would love twins than repeat this all over again... Again im jumping ahead of myself will cross that bridge later!

Love and hugs xx :kiss: Thank you in advance for your replies especially the Semen Analysis results? xx


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## Deb111

Thanks for your kind words Nayla.

As far as our samples were concerned they found nothing at all. We asked about dead sperm but they said there weren't any dead ones in them.

ICSI doesn't mean you will have twins and I think if you have an NHS cycle and are under 35, they will only put one back (I'm sure someone who's been there will correct me if I'm wrong). I think the chances of twins are higher but it's not guaranteed.

There is a girl on the forums that must be either nearly due or had her baby already, whose hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia and her hubby had SSR. I can't remember her name right now, but there are success stories out there xx


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## waitingginger

Hi Ladies
Well our appointment today not really any further along...

Apparently the blood test we had back in August wasnt comprehensive enough and so OH has given more blood today for the Kerotype test, think thats how it spelt! you mentioned it to be before Deb! and for FSH and something else!! i cant believe they werent done last time! apparently all that was done was testosterone! which doc says was low and so i eveident that there is a problem with the testicles 'functioning globally'. not obstructive!! although every case of azzospermia i have read nobody ever seems to have obstructive!! 

And so we have to wait for a month for the blood test results and then he said we go from there. I asked about the SSR and he said would you want to go ahead with it despite whatever comes up on the blood tests and we both said yes! so hopefully we will get that doen anyway!

I asked about the dead sperm he couldnt explain why it was there but that every mans sample will always have dead sperm amongst the fresh ones. maybe there is no answer for why the sperm is dead or maybe something is killing it i dont know! but looks liek doc thinks the testicles arent working. He also said his testicles were on the small side and this is eveident again of the testicles not working.

And so there we go doesnt sound like good news does it? pretty much born like this? and now a wait for more blood results that we could of done whilst we were sitting here waiting for 8 months being messed around by the other hospital then sent here!

Owell not much we can do about it!! i was so hoping they might turn round and say oh evidence of dead sperm thats good there is prob some behind there but nope!:nope: and the outlook doesnt look good for his biological babies! 

He said oh atleast this guy knows what he is talking about and its the first person who does i think he is going to find some!! i am just going to leave OH with the hope because no point putting a downer on it until we have to. I did hear him say to his brother before 'got to have an operation and if they cant find any sperm then will have to have a sperm donor' so atleast he is thinking abit ahead.

Chippy for dinner and break up from work tomorrow so going to focus on something good! 
x x x x


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## Deb111

How frustrating for you hun. I would consider putting in a complaint letter. We had many, many issues and these 'experts' need to consider how they are treating vulnerable people going through this kind of stuff. You shouldn't have to put up with it.

My hubby's testosterone level is low and testicles are slightly small apparently :shrug: but they found 3 live, healthy, motile sperm when they did the SSR.

Some things to consider talking to them about before your SSR (going on our experience)
- do they have a cut off point for how many sperm they need to find during the SSR before they will freeze them? Our 3 were just discarded as they said it didn't meet their criteria :growlmad:

- if you are prepared to consider using a sperm donor as a back-up, would they prepare you for egg collection on the same day as your husband's SSR so that at least if they did find some they thought they could use, they could use them fresh without having to freeze. When I had previously asked if freezing damaged them; I was told no, but now we are told that 25-50% are lost during various thawing processes!

- thirdly, talk to them about clomid for your HUSBAND. We have done some research and spoken to Dr Turek who says that clomid will boost his testosterone naturally and may increase the small number of sperm found. You may really have to push the issue or do some research yourself to show them , as UK NHS Dr's seem to just fob you off and say it's a drug for women. Testosterone replacement therapy would not be a good option as it would increase his levels unnaturally and would trick the body into thinking it didn't need to make any testosterone and so would make no sperm

Hope you manage to have a lovely christmas xx


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## waitingginger

I know i never noticed his testicles are small either!!! but hey ho!!

Its just so frustrating isnt it? its been a complete waste of 8 months because we are right at the start of the process still!!atleast we seem on the right track now!!
I will ask all of these things when we go back!! I cant belive they would couldnt carry out the procedure even with 3 sperm!! it would of been worth seeing if it would of been succsesful surely??!!!

Hope you have a lovely xmas too!! looking forward to some time off although one of my OH close friends has just text to say they are expecting! not great timing but owell!! we just feel really angry now like why us?!

x x x x


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## Nayla82

Good Morning Ladies :flower:

Waiting Ginger- huge :hugs: Im sorry its taking even more time. They have told you its not Obstructive? Hope and pray that you get the answer. Always remember Hun its just HIS VIEW, go ahead and do the SSR i just have high hopes for you dear xx They found Dead Sperms where are they coming from? they must have been alive before they died? It only takes ONE. Just makie sure hes taking his Zinc and Omega 3 in the mean time. Hope the blood tests clear everything up for you both.

Bless your O.H my husband has gone from being quiet to none stop talking about it!! :dohh: hes telling me when they find sperms next week make sure your there maybe they will rush you in the room and do IVF! Bless him he thinks its that simple! I told hope I will not be ovulating and it isnt that simple.. as you said Hun I really dont want to burst his bubble, if this is how hes dealing with it let it be.. :shrug:

Deb- Bless you Deb you know so much! :hugs: I have a note book whenever im on here to jot down everything! :hugs: Hun I have read Farah Hospital in Amman (Jordan) there suppose to be one of the best on the world! For ICSI and IVF, and i have read a couple paid no more that £4000 for the full ICSI, People travel from all over UK, USA, EUROPE etc etc and the feedback is amazing. There also the best in the world for Gender selection (didnt even know that existed?) and the success rate is great! I read a women from London had 4 boys really wanted a girl and yes he managed to help her! :thumbup: imagine if he's perfect choosing the correct sex that you desire, Women like us dont mind what he puts back in us as long as its a healthy :baby: I really have faith in him and its much closer to us than USA... Really hun theres so much more out there than our local Drs telling us bad news :thumbup: Again im ahead of myself but If it has to be Im willing to go and do everything humanly possible. Theres a forum with 1000s of women chatting and sharing their experiences, not read anything bad yet??

Again your all in my prayers xx

The waiting Game is more the killer than anything else :cry:

Be strong and healthy xx


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## Flake-y

waitingginger said:


> I know i never noticed his testicles are small either!!! but hey ho!!
> 
> Its just so frustrating isnt it? its been a complete waste of 8 months because we are right at the start of the process still!!atleast we seem on the right track now!!
> I will ask all of these things when we go back!! I cant belive they would couldnt carry out the procedure even with 3 sperm!! it would of been worth seeing if it would of been succsesful surely??!!!
> 
> Hope you have a lovely xmas too!! looking forward to some time off although one of my OH close friends has just text to say they are expecting! not great timing but owell!! we just feel really angry now like why us?!
> 
> x x x x

Sorry you didn;t get any definite answers, but hopefully like you said, you are on the right track & you can only go forward from here!!!!


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## Flake-y

Nayla82 said:


> Morning Ladies :flower:
> 
> I just feel like im getting myself so worked up cant seem to shake off my panic attacks? . Ladies sorry for being a pain :blush: but in regards to the Semen Analysis when you got both results back was it ZERO ZERO? or were there dead ones in there? I mean was it black and white NOTHING in the sample?? So sorry for asking?? or when they saw the dead ones they didnt bother to mention them and say that they were ZERO SAMPLE?
> 
> I have just read the full thread all morning (God bless you women your all tough cookies, it scares me to think I have a longggg road ahead of me!) It seems that SSR isnt that Magical?? :cry: It seems like they either find nothing? or when they do there not really any use? or they just find a couple that NHS will not entertain??
> 
> Love and hugs xx :kiss: Thank you in advance for your replies especially the Semen Analysis results? xx

Hey Nayla;

Our SA was zero sperm, no dead or alive ones at all, just nothing.:nope:

As for the SSR, whether it works or not really depends on what the problem is; it does seem from reading the thread that it doesn't work that much, but I think we've all just had bad luck! Like Deb said, there are a couple of ladies on BnB who have had successful SSRs & have gone on to get pregnant through ISCI. So it does & can work!!!!:thumbup:

And, like Deb said, ICSI doesn't mean you will have twins, it all depends on the egg quality, your age & AMH, & what clinic you go to. For me, my clinic have strongly recommended single embyro transfer, unless I get very few eggs & they are poor quailty. Honestly though, I'd rather have just one. Twins would be too much like hard work!!!:winkwink:


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## HopeWhispers

Hi Ladies,

I have read your thread from the beginning. It's taken me several days and I've cried more than once, but I'm so relieved to have found it. I've been looking for the sort of support you are all offering to one another for over a year. It probably shouldn't have taken me so long to find, but then maybe I wasn't ready to do this until now. 

A bit about me:

My OH (is that other half? 'Scuse me, I don't know the lingo!) and I are not trying to conceive, and actually never have been. Our discovery of his infertility came through another, but also traumatic, route. He was told in Aug 09 that he had a testicular tumour. We had not found a lump or anything, and it really was found by chance - it was a bolt out of the blue. We were told that only a very small proportion of testicular tumours turn out to be benign, so we had to start preparing ourselves for the high likelihood that he had cancer. Sadly, he had an injury as a little boy, and one of his testicles had been removed. So we were looking at cancer in his only remaining testicle.

I think the normal route that is taken with testicular cancer (where the man has two testicles) is to simply remove the one with the tumour (the proportion of testicular tumours that are benign is only something like 3-4%). However, because he only had one testicle left, my OH was sent before his op to try and store sperm. Two separate sperm analyses were done - both showed zero sperm. Obviously, he needed the op to remove the cancer asap, so after the second zero result the cancer op was scheduled. An embryologist was arranged to attend at the op so that he could do the SSR of any sperm that were there. We were hopeful that the tumour may be causing an obstruction, and that we would have his sperm frozen for us to use in the future.

When op day came it was the most difficult day of my life. It was agonising to watch him go through all of it, and the results were devastating: biopsy showed the tumour was definitely cancerous; testicle was removed so that OH now had no testicles; and embryologist had been able to retrieve no sperm. Pretty much a triple whammy of the worst possible results.

We had to pick ourselves up from the initial shock and get on with dealing with the cancer. Fortunately, we found out several weeks later that it had not spread, and no further treatment was needed - just monitoring to make sure it doesn't come back. We are now over a year cancer-free!

We are now living in the aftermath of it all. I worry about the cancer coming back. There are the psychological problems for him dealing not only with being unable to have babies, but also having no testicles. He also can not produce any testosterone, so there are painful testosterone replacement treatments. The stress of the whole thing has left me with some physical symptoms of the continuing anxiety of my own. But by far, for me, the most difficult part of it is dealing with the fact that I will never have his children.

I'm not sure yet how I feel about donor sperm, but it's our only option for me to conceive and carry a baby. A counsellor mentioned to me that "they" are working on a treatment that would use donor sperm but remove the donor DNA and replace with OH's DNA. Has anyone heard of this? I don't think it's a treatment available at the moment, but something researchers are looking into. It seems like if it is something that is being researched, it may not come to anything, or at least be too far in the future for us. Like I said, we are not TTC but expect that we will be at some point.

Through all of this, we never once got to speak to a fertility doctor, so I really don't know much (anything) about the treatments. Could any of you who know tell me what sort of say you have with the NHS about the attributes of the donor? I'm assuming that you would only be offered sperm from someone without a history of serious illness/genetic problems, but can you specify e.g. hair and eye colour? It sounds superficial but one of the issues I have about whether or not we would tell our children that they were not biologically ours/his is whether it would become obvious. I find it hard to imagine our future family sometimes because there are so many gaps in the picture, and things like that help me to close the gaps. It's not like I ever had a clear picture of what our family would be like in the past, I was just content to know (think) that there would be a future family! 

I have not shared the full extent of what we've gone through with many of my friends or family. Some know, but others I just felt were too remote, or would say the sort of inane, insensitive things that I see some of you have experienced. I'm finding it difficult now that the few I have confided in don't want to talk about it any more. For some, it's old news and I feel I'm dragging them down and being all doom and gloom when I mention it. Others, I know, find it hard to know how much it still hurts me, and it's kinder to them not to let them know how much it still hurts and still occupies most of my thoughts most of the time. So any support you ladies can give is really very, very much appreciated.

So much of what you talk about in this thread is close to home for me, either because I have been there and felt it in the past, or because I know it waits for me in my future. There are quite a few of you on here and I'm afraid I can't quite remember everyone's own story yet, but I wish you all the very best in your various tests and treatments.

Love to you all.


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## april4jdg

I hope this helps a little- from what I have seen- you can google sperm banks- there are a lot of different ones- and it is kind of like a catalog, with the donor's info- occupation, hair color, eye color, build, weight, texture of hair, ethnicity, parent's ethnicities, picture of them as a child, and some as an adult, some have handwriting samples, some have voice interviews with them, some have the sperm bank staff's opinions of them, they are always tested to for disease, etc- they have all the disease stuff on there- it is the law they have to do that, and family histories on them, all kinds of stuff...they have basic profiles that are free, and some you pay more and get more info. they will even tell you if they have achieved any pregnancies before.

Hope this helps


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## Deb111

Hi HopeWhispers :flower:

Welcome to the group. I'm so sorry you have been through so much but glad to hear that the news on your OH's health is good.

I know where you're coming from when you say that you feel people don't want to keep hearing about how much it hurts still. People either don't understand and make inane comments or understand and are very supportive, but you get the impression they think you should be "over it" by now.

One thing I know for sure is that you will get a lot of support here - there are some great ladies here, all at different stages of this.

Take care
Deb x


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## Nayla82

Hi Ladies I hope you all had a Merry Christmas :hugs:

HopeWhispers- 1000 Hugs coming your way :hugs: What a very painful journey you have been through xx Excellent to know your O.H is in the best health and got the all clear, and hopefully 2011 will just go from strength from strength for you :hugs: My knowledge is not the best when it comes to S/D but there a couple of women who have used Doners and im sure will explain everything to you... Stay Strong and Healthy and Welcome to This Thread xx

Jo- Thanks for your answers dear, My Husbands handing in his 2nd Semen Analysis Tomorrow and im getting very nervous what it will be? Im just trying to prepare myself for the results? I know im not being realistic by saying there will be a few million sperms in his sample tomorrow (I wish :cloud9:) I dont think it can jump from ZERO to a few Million in 2 weeks?? I guess I will have to wait and see? Sorry What does AMH Mean? :blush: I know what you mean twins can be a handful and it will all depend on our eggs when and if they do ICSI. I read 65% oF Pregnancy with ICSI thats an excellent statistic :thumbup: Really looking forward for when you get your :bfp: soon :happydance: 2011 has to be our year!

Again started to do more research :coffee: and Im getting little confused with TESE and SSR? I have read one is just an injection that tries to suck all the sperms out? and the other is a slice it open operation? I just thought its the cutting open of the testicles thats the main way to find the sperms? 
if you dont mind me asking ladies :blush: why didnt Drs use the fine injection? less invasive? or with the SSR they have a better chance in finding more Sperms?? or you did them both? I would just love my husband having the injection? Hes a wimp when it comes to surgery.

I guess on Wednesday we will get the results on the 2nd sample and what the Urologist want us to do from there? My husband said I cant go with him when he gets the results and has a chat :nope: i just hope and pray he hears everything and tells me everything. I will just be waiting by the phone and praying for any good news [-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;

I will update you all in a few days. Please keep me in your precious Prayers.

I hope everyone is enjoying the Break x :kiss:


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## Deb111

Wishing you lots of luck for tomorrow Nayla. You will be in my thoughts and prayers xx


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## Flake-y

*Hopewhispers*-welcome to the thread, hope you get lots of support here. Sorry to hear about all you have gone through, but glad that your OH is now in good health.

*Nayla*-lots of luck for tomorrrow, will be thinking of you. Hope the results are better.

With regards to your questions about the SSR, I will tell you what I know! We were told that if a blockage is suspected, they will do an aspiration, which I think is just a needle taking fluid from the tubes that come out of the testicles. Straight away the fluid will be looked at under a microscope to see if there is sperm there. If there isn't any sperm, they can do a TESE, which is basically taking many small biopsies of the testicles. The bits they take will be looked at under a microscope again to see if there is sperm.

I think there are other SSR-type ops, a PESA or something similar, I think they might be for men that have had vasectomies, so they know there is sperm there. I'm not totally sure though, cause my DH didn't have those, he just had the aspiration & the TESE.

Oh, and AMH is a blood test that tells you your egg reserve, that is, the number of eggs you have left in your ovaries. The higher the number the more you have, so you've got a better chance of getting more eggs retreived during IVF/ICSI, and also a higher pregnancy potential. Apparently!!!


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## Nayla82

Morning Ladies :flower:

Thanks again Jo for clearing that up :hugs: I just hope and pray that my husband will not have to perform the SSR and that they find some sperms with TESE... Its just very daunting the unknown. Thanks also for explaining the AMH blood test im sure that I have all that to look forward for :dohh:, 

I think once i know that my husband has a few healthy sperms i will definitely go back and see my Gyno and get all the necessary checks done... (I just hope that my stuff are behaving , as i went in for Reflexology last night, as a relaxing treat and she pressed a point on my feet was very very tender and sore.. I asked her thats very painful, her words 'mmm interesting thats your Reproductive organs, do you have your periods regular and you have been checked...' I was thinking Damn it! just hope its nothing sinister [-o&lt; she said i would get it checked if she was me.. :wacko: I keep teling myself its only my foot and i should not be to paranoid.


Well we handed in his Semen Analysis this morning, I timed it from the second he did the sample to us handing it in to the staff he took 14min and i have never seen my husband drive the way he did (luckily there was not a soul on the road and the green lights were kind :thumbup:) it was tucked in safely in his boxers lets just see what happens tomorrow as we get the result after 4pm..

I woke up wide eyed since 5 this Morning, had a dream that it was Zero count with No Dead Sperm this time 100% Zero, Than the Urologist says to us ' I cant do anything else for you both its beyond my knowledge go and find a new Doctor' :cry: that dream was so so real it shook me up, and I was frantically yelling that I know women online that have done X Y and Z, This cant be the end.. the Dream ends by him saying please leave the Room... :nope: I didnt want to share my dream with my husband just hope im wrong!

I better make myself some breakfast, they have the sample nothing more can be done. I kept saying to my husband do you think it was more than last time? you were comfortable at home so i think you were less stressed than forcing yourself to do in a small dingy room... He was like where ever I do the sample the results will be the same.

I must have stressed out the Lab people big time :blush: I was saying to them can you please centrifuge the sample! can you please please take it in now time is running out, can you please get a senior staff to do it and please please find something :cry: was a very sweet man that told me we can not centrifuge the sample as the Urologist just wants the semen analysis.... I said Ok can you please please try and find some alive..? He said we will do our best... I dont know what came over me... I guess im just a desperate women that wants to be a Mother :cry: My Husband just stood behind me quietly thinking let me ask away...

Im so so scared Ladies i think im talking forever! hope im making sense :wacko:

Enjoy your day

Love and Hugs xx


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## Pink Lolly

Hi All

Hope you all managed to enjoy Christmas and had a good break from work!

Nayla - We are also waiting for the second SA results too - ours was actually taken to the lab last Tues but we're actually not getting the results until next week. We could have got them on Christmas Eve but decided that we didn't want to ruin Christmas, and we are both back to work tomorrow and mega busy for the three days so decided to wait and get them next week so we have an appointment on Wednesday. We are already expecting a zero result - last time ours was completely zero (none alive or dead) so figured we would try to forget about it over Christmas and waiting a few more days wouldn't hurt. I'll let update you next week when I have some news.

Of course in reality we actually didn't manage to forget it at all over Christmas! In fact I felt quite emotional on Christmas day seeing all the babies in the family. Partly because I'm sad that we seem to have wanted a baby forever and can't believe this is happening to us, and partly because I am also quite scared of what lies ahead. I'm sure all of you ladies know exactly how I feel....

We have our appointment at the Reproductive Centre at the end of Jan so at least thats not too long to wait and hopefully we might get an idea of what tests etc are next and hopefully the time will go quickly.

Take Care and love to you all - hopefully 2011 will be a good year for us xxx


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## Deb111

Nayla - will be thinking about you tomorrow and praying that you get some more positive news xx

Pink lolly - Christmas is such a hard time isn't it? I hope you are able to get some positive news and information and move on with your journey towards that bfp xx


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## Flake-y

Good luck for your results Nayla for tomorrow, & pinklolly for next week.


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## Nayla82

Morning I will pop in before im off to work, Thank you for your lovely msgs xx

Today is the day, Zero? Something? Nothing? explanation? I didnt sleep a wink! :wacko: Im soooo nervous just want to get the ball rolling! its just gone 5.30am and we will not know till after 4pm :wacko: seems hours and hours away.... My Husband is making predictions how many will they find? he said he just wants 3 healthy ones... I said please prepare for nothing also... (secretly i would love for a couple also)

Ohhh Will update you all later tonight xx Thank you so much for the love and support you all have given me in the last 2 weeks :cry: I would have been blinded by it all by now, You girls really is all I have when it comes to opening up and discussing this awful situation :hugs: God Bless u all xx

Pink Lolly- I know the butterflies and the fear of the unknown :hugs: i keep telling myself like the book SECRET when you think good things it will happen...? so im trying to say to myself 2nd results has to be a wee be stronger.... Will know by the end of today, All the best for next week Hun x

Enjoy your day everyone xx and thanks again for all the support :kiss:


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## Deb111

Just stopping by to see if there's any news?

Hope you and hubby are doing ok hun xx :hugs:


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## Nayla82

Hi Ladies,

Hope everyone is well x

Ok we got our 2nd Result yesterday and it was 2, but not the healthiest or active 2 sperms ever but he mentioned there was 2 sperms in the whole sample that need alot of looking after (in other words not sure if they would get the all clear for ICSI?) Hearts of hearts Im over the moon that they found 2 even though there were barely alive.. I truly am overjoyed :cry:

The action plan that the Urologist gave was that today my husband has to go for Testicle Ultrasound or the Xray my husband forgot which one :dohh: but he knows that he has to drink 1Ltr of water before the test (Any Ideas ladies which test it is? and can they say if theres blockage there and than?)

My Husband also had a blood test yesterday for FSH TESTORONE LH not got a clue what they will be looking for but I hope and pray that the Blood tests will hold clues.

On Monday 3rd Jan The Urologist will discuss the Blood test results and the scan that will be done today. Urologist will give him the required Medicine that he has to take for the next 3 Months than go back in for another Sample too see whether a fresh batch of sperm and the medicine has managed to increase the count or made any difference? I think this will Take us to April Or May?

Im scared that in 3 Months it might go back to Zero? anything is possible now, All I can do is sit back and wait for Spring. Don't want to convince myself that all will be amazing in 3 Months just going to take each day now as it comes.. ( I feel like im wishing my life away! as i want spring to be here now)

Im not sure why my Husband is more upset this time around?? last time he was very upset and he seems to have took the result very badly? ok there were 2 not so great sperms but its better than 0 and dead? but I really believe he thought the 1st test was 100% wrong and this sample would be normal..? I just hope and pray he excepts it now and focus on being healthy and happy the best we can be.

Husband said to me the Urologist said its IMPOSSIBLE for us to get pregnant naturally ever.. and maybe just maybe ICSI/IVF will help and even than theres no gurantee. I told my husband for the past 2 weeks I have been more than 100% aware this will NOT happen naturally and i have read so much about ICSI so dont worry (Again with his old fashioned way of thinking he still thought I could get pregnant the natural way) 

Thank you again ladies for all the love and support and very warm words :hugs: I will update you on Monday about his blood test results and the medicine that he will be given... He already taking Zinc and Omega3 any others you can recommend? I just want the best result he can give in 3 Months [-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;

Hope you all have a lovely day.

Just feel 2011 will be a very Longggg year for me, Im sure it will all be worth every tear and every heartache :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Hi Nayla

I'm glad the news was slightly more positive yesterday :thumbup:

My hubby's testosterone levels are very low and we're currently looking into what can be done about that naturally as increasing it artificially would actually make things worse.

If his FSH level is high it indicates that the testes are not working properly as his body is having to produce extra FSH in an attempt to get things working. If his FSH is low, they can give him something to increase this which will hopefully increase his sperm production.

I can't find the notes I made about LH from our consultations, but found this ...

"In men, LH controls the production of testosterone from the testes and FSH controls the production of sperm. High LH and FSH levels are due to primary testicular failure. This can be due to developmental defects in testicular growth or to testicular injury."

My hubby takes wellman conception and omega 3 as we wanted to make sure that any sperm that were there were as healthy and strong as possible.

Is your hubby letting you go to the next appt with him?

Stay strong hun xx :hugs:


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## Flake-y

Hey Nayla, Glad the reaults were a bit better for you, hope the blood tests give some answers as to what could be causing the problem!!!


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## Nayla82

Thank you so much Debs for all that information, really saves me jumping through 1001 pages xx on Monday I'm looking for low FSH and low LH, I'm a little nervous what will be said? If you don't mind me asking how high is high?? With 2 barely alive sperms I'm more than certain all his blood tests will be high :cry:

Also I'm still not allowed to go to his appointment on Monday :nope: it's really getting me down. Yesterday before he saw his urologist he was sending me 100's of MSG's asking what should he ask the dr and was the word centruficing the sample :dohh: I typed centrifuging!! Than he msgs me Claudia to see will the dr give it to him.?? I said its Clomid ask for that!! I was getting myself in a pickle texting awAy at my desk I so wish he would just let me go.

I told him it's our results he's like leave me be, I don't butt into your GYno appointments and I don't want you to get involved in mine?? :nope: he's very angry at me. I don't know ladies by the time this 3 months is over I really don't know the state our mArriage will be in?.

After Monday we are not allowed to bring up babies appointments sperms Nothing, just pretend this month didn't happen and wait till April quietly :nope: I will do my best. I wish our relationship was as open and we can discuss freely everything. He's just a very very angry man and when I tell him happy stories I read online he doesn't want to know :shrug:

Just having a down day, my period is due soon, the past 2weeks feels like I have been thrown in the washing machine full spin!!! I'm just overwhelmed. No one to open up to just you ladies x

Debs I hope they find some natural way to increase your husbands Test levels as I'm also wiry of all these strong drugs that cAn just make matters worse 
:shrug:

Thanks Jo will update you all with the numbers on monday xx just want to get to the bottom of this mystery.

Thanks again ladies, xx sorry for sounding mushy but I'm so blessed to find you all x


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## april4jdg

hey there! Just checking in with you girls... I am trying to updat my information on here- but I think it is a bit high tech for my feeble brain...LOL

Believe me I am not trying to be secretive about my tttc information...

I am on vacation until Jan 11th- DH has his biopsy on the 6th of jan...We got a call yesterday from the RE's office and even though we have insurance, we have to prepay 1450.00 for the procedure...UGH! I am not sure why we had to do this... whatever.
But I prepaid yesterday. Then they told us we had to come by thier office 2 hours before the procedure to fill out the cryopreservation forms, etc...and also to pick up the vials that the tissue "sample" was to go in...weird...
Thankfully our re's office connects with the hospital dh will be having the biopsy in.

I am just trying to prepare myself-hoping for the best but expecting the worst...I have read so much info on that some doctors don't read into FSH, and a lot that say the do read into it... I am confused...Dh's test were all normal except fsh it was 17.5- not terribly high- but higher than what it should be...

I have driven myself nuts looking for info on klinefelter's, SCO, Kallman's- but the only one i think DH might fight into is SCO...
I also read about the chromosome deletion testing- I read somewhere that if you had a or c deletion there was still hope,but if b it was less hopeful...

My brain is fried...LOL

Anyone here's dh have genetic issues for the azoo?


I have been thinking about you all-maybe I can make it over one day!!! : )


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## Deb111

Hi April

That's pretty much what my hubby's FSH level was and I think it should have been below 15. Our urologist told us that even with a level as high as 30, they have sometimes found sperm, so 17.5 doesn't really conclusively tell them anything. And with our SSR, they did find some; only 3; but they were healthy and it still shows he is capable of making them.

His y chromosome micro-deletion test and all of the other genetic tests for CF, Klinefelter's etc, all came back normal so we are at a bit of a loss as to why he has so few sperm and I think that's the frustrating thing; until someone can tell us exactly why we can't definitively say "he has none so let's move onto something else" or "this is the problem and this will fix it". 

I totally understand feeling like your brain is fried!!! I said to hubby the other day; "Getting pregnant should be an evening of fun, not something that I feel I can now write a degree about!"

I've checked the first page of this thread and I've already listed your hubby's biopsy date for people to keep track of

Sending you hugs
Deb xx


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## Deb111

If anyone else has any dates for me to add to the first page of the thread, let me know and I'll add them xx


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## april4jdg

when they tested for all the genetic stuff- what that through tissue sample? or blood samples?


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## Deb111

Klinefelter's, CF carrier, y chromosome micro-deletion were all just blood tests

Seroli cell only syndrome is something they would diagnose from the biopsy

xx


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## april4jdg

oh- so do think my dh has already been tested for these? he had to do another bloodtest before the biopsy a few months back (he already did one the first day we were at the re's office- the first visit- then the 2nd visit they did another)... they said they were testing it for the same thing as the first time, like aids, and hiv, and std- but the results took longer to get in- like 3+weeks.... that was his 3 round of bloodwork... so you think they would have not scheduled the biopsy if they had found one of the above disorders you mentioned- do they usually test prior to a biopsy before that?

I really think DH may have SCO syndrome- but i am not saying a word.


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## Deb111

I would like to think they would have tested his testosterone, FSH and LH levels as well as the HIV, STD's etc and also the genetic ones I mentioned prior to the biopsy. We were told that none of these results would conclusively tell us whether they would find sperm or not and that the only way to do this was to do the biopsy / SSR.

However, certain results can give them an indication of what might be causing it and therefore there may be medications that they feel may help, even if the biopsy is still necessary.

On the other hand, I would not take anything for granted and would ask for a list of what they have tested for and what the results were

xx


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## april4jdg

i know they tested for lh, and testosterone, fsh, prolactin, thyroid, Aids, all kinds of stds, mycoplasma, CF, HIV, HBV- that is all i can remember right now.


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## Nayla82

Hi Ladies :flower:

We were suppose to get my husbands Blood results on Monday but after work last night the Urologist called my Husband to go to the clinic as the blood tests and results came in within 24hours.

My husbands blood test was within the Normal range, DH said the DR did not give a figure just said his LH and FSH and Test are all fine :thumbup: Also does Ultrasound see any blockages? That came back ok, just said that the veins look a little bigger than usual (if you sit and stand for long periods it causes that?) and its a little inflamed again Urologist said that will sort itself out.

He has put my Husband on 50 mg on Clomid for the next 6 weeks and told him to continue with Zinc and Multi vitamins and wants him to do the 3rd sample than. March 4th will be his 3rd and final Sample if you dont mind putting me on the front page Deb for Testing Thank you.

Urologist said once he sees if the Clomid has worked? and even though it was 2 that was found hopefully the Clomid would make them a strong healthy 2 [-o&lt; and hopefully if theres any Sperms we can go on to do ICSI :thumbup: Again this all Depends on Sperms that are found and if they are healthy? Im very nervous, and I just feel were hanging on a string of thread :shrug:

Going to try and think Happy thoughts and we will see.

Wishing you all a happy and safe new year xx :hugs:

Will just wait and see now xx


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## Deb111

Nayla - that's great that your Dr seems to be on board - our FS / GP just fob us off when we mention clomid, but it's great that your Dr is open to trying things

Wishing you everything you wish for in 2011 :hugs: xx


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## Nayla82

God bless you Deb! Urologist said it might or it might not work? will just see now :wacko: its crazy he has 6 boxes of clomids I have read the boxes no information about sperm increasing?? Just a lot about ovulation and regulates periods?? Hope it does the trick : its costing us an arm and a leg but I hope it works for us.

He also said come back in 2 months not 3?? And sperms get better after 6weeks i would rather wait 3 months just in case :shrug: he seems to know what he's doing.

I hope and pray 3rd time lucky, if all goes to plan ICSI will be booked. He told DH anything can happen and he's doing his best. 
He has not mentioned blockages and azoospermia?? Do you just think my husband has a severly low count? Theres no explanation and ultra sound was ok:shrug: I'm think zero two must be a little better with Clomid?? Will update you all soon....

I also pray that 2011 will be sheer magic for us all xx :hugs:


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## Deb111

I don't know enough about it, but wanted some info from our FS - but he was unable to help. However, when we spoke to Dr Turek in the US, he immediately said hubby should be on it :shrug: It does feel like we're clutching at straws at times, but anything is worth a go.

Do you mind me asking how much the clomid has cost you?

xx


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## Deb111

Thought this might give some of you a little boost. This time of year can be so hard xx

https://www.thedontquitpoem.com/


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## Nayla82

Debs my husband has all the receipts and I'm looking at it now looks rather confusing I think it looks like £62 Clomid and normal multi vitamins is £24 than £160 for blood tests full examination and ultra sound, so far it's like £250 :wacko: but i just hope its worthwhile.

I wonder why your GP is refusing Clomid theres no harm in trying?? I'm trying to read up on it and there's a few Good stories online.

Xx


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## Deb111

I don't think the GP is refusing it so much as not aware that it can be used for this and knows nothing about it :shrug: xx


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## Deb111

Just stopping by to wish you all a happy new year!

Linzie - so excited that 2011 will be the year you get to meet your LO! :baby:

To everyone else, I hope that 2011 brings us all some positive news and that we can all start taking those steps towards a 2011 :bfp: xx :friends:
 



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## loobylou_01

Thanks Deb! What a strange year it has been, still feeling stunned by everything to be honest! 

Just logged on to have a quick catch up and gosh it looks like loads has been happening. Wishing all the ladies on here all the very best, when i think of the low place we were in a year ago it amazes me how lucky we have been :) even if we've had to do things differently than we'd hoped. I hope so much that you all get the outcomes you dream off xxxx


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## Nayla82

Happy New Year to all you lovely ladies!! :kiss:

Hope everyone had a great start to 2011!! xx and im sure most of us last year thought that we will be seeing in 2011 with a bump or a baby :shrug: Because I certainly did :blush: I remember so clearly at the start of 2010 saying this is the year I will get pregnant 100%.... Its crazy the difference a year makes.

I promised myself to smile in 2011 even though when i think long and hard of the hardships I faced I just wanted to :cry: but I did pull myself together and went to a lovely house party... Despite people going around the room asking one and other what would you like to happen/change this year.. :growlmad: I said to be healthy and happy :blush: and someone thought to butt in and say you should make starting a family your priority for the new year you will be a great mum.. aghhhh There is always one in every group I guess :shrug: asking questions about babies I think should be considered Rude and a never Question :thumbup: Really is upsetting.

Like i mentioned new year new start. and im sure by the end of 2011 we will all have some good stories to share :thumbup:

Jo- I pray iVF works magic for you..

Debs- I hope you find all your answers your a tough cookie keep going :hugs: i have good feelings about 2011 for us all. Also about Clomid your FS is right in the sense that its a pot luck treatment, my DH said the Urologist made it very clear that it may work and it may not..? its not guranteed to work wonders? but seeing that my husband had 2 very bad sperms I think his aim is trying too see if they get stronger or can move up a bit? Dr said in some patients nothing happens and in others bring them up by a few? certainly not hundreds and thousands? Im leaving everything in Gods hands I hope it works [-o&lt; Im very very curious if it works.. theres also 100mg Clomid but he just gave 50mg (wished was 100mg as im getting so desperate and scared) will just see what happens.. I just hope and pray there will be 1 healthy sperm as he said to my husband even if they find the 1 they will go on to ICSI... Again I know all my dreams can end in a blink of eye only time will tell.

Will keep everyone updated,

Enjoy your weekend love and hugs xx:hugs:


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## Deb111

Nayla - you should start a journal hun so we can come and stalk you! - great place to have a good old rant sometimes, but also nice to have a record of your journey to that :bfp: xx


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## Nayla82

Your right Hun! I just started a Journal what a time to start 1 Jan :happydance:

I might sound a little silly how do i get it on the bottom of my screen now? :blush: I cant seem to figure it out?? xx

Please tell me the easy way of doing it lol thanks xx


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## Nayla82

Help! LOL not sure if I have done it correctly? just copied and paste my Journal Heading in my signature section?? if u click it to you get to see my Journal help anyone lool x


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## Pink Lolly

Happy New Year Everyone! Let's all try to think positively for 2011 - wishing you all lots of luck in your TTC journeys xxx

Nayla - I have tried to click the link to your journal but it doesn't seem to be working!


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## Deb111

Check this out Nayla - explains how to do a journal link xx

https://www.babyandbump.com/forum-help-testing-area/481539-make-text-link.html


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## Deb111

* Deleted *
Ignore original post - thought of a better way to do it lol


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## Nayla82

Thanks ladies. My MAC BOOK is not playing nice :growlmad: I think I have sorted it out, Hope you can see my Journal xx


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## Nayla82

test


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## Nayla82

Ok I think its done! My goodness im making a meal out of this lol


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## Flake-y

Happy new year everyone! Here's to a 2011 full of good news & bfps for us all!!!!!


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## Pink Lolly

Hello Girlies

Hope you're all OK! Just thought I'd check in and update you all....

Went back to the GP today and got DHs 2nd SA results and as expected it was zero again :cry:

We had already prepared ourselves for this though and were much more level headed this time and able to take in what the Dr said! 

DH is booked in for a blood test next week to check his hormone levels so the results will be back in time for our appointment at the Reproductive Centre on 20th January. DH did have an undescended testicle corrected as a child and although the GP said this would not be the cause, he did suggest that maybe DH could have a blockage caused by scar tissue from when he had his op - but said he is by no means an expert and we will not know anymore until he has further tests etc. 

I'm very thankful that the referrel was made ages ago before the results, as it now means we only have 2 weeks to wait until we see the specialist, which is not too bad as the waiting is the worst bit.

Hope you're all OK :hugs:


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## Flake-y

Pink Lolly said:


> Hello Girlies
> 
> Hope you're all OK! Just thought I'd check in and update you all....
> 
> Went back to the GP today and got DHs 2nd SA results and as expected it was zero again :cry:
> 
> We had already prepared ourselves for this though and were much more level headed this time and able to take in what the Dr said!
> 
> DH is booked in for a blood test next week to check his hormone levels so the results will be back in time for our appointment at the Reproductive Centre on 20th January. DH did have an undescended testicle corrected as a child and although the GP said this would not be the cause, he did suggest that maybe DH could have a blockage caused by scar tissue from when he had his op - but said he is by no means an expert and we will not know anymore until he has further tests etc.
> 
> I'm very thankful that the referrel was made ages ago before the results, as it now means we only have 2 weeks to wait until we see the specialist, which is not too bad as the waiting is the worst bit.
> 
> Hope you're all OK :hugs:

Sorry to hear about the 2nd SA, but I guess you were prepared for it being the same results.

I don't want to go against your GP, but we were told that an undescended testicle can cause azoospermia, although I think it depends when the corrective surgery was done?


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## Pink Lolly

Flake-y said:


> Pink Lolly said:
> 
> 
> Hello Girlies
> 
> Hope you're all OK! Just thought I'd check in and update you all....
> 
> Went back to the GP today and got DHs 2nd SA results and as expected it was zero again :cry:
> 
> We had already prepared ourselves for this though and were much more level headed this time and able to take in what the Dr said!
> 
> DH is booked in for a blood test next week to check his hormone levels so the results will be back in time for our appointment at the Reproductive Centre on 20th January. DH did have an undescended testicle corrected as a child and although the GP said this would not be the cause, he did suggest that maybe DH could have a blockage caused by scar tissue from when he had his op - but said he is by no means an expert and we will not know anymore until he has further tests etc.
> 
> I'm very thankful that the referrel was made ages ago before the results, as it now means we only have 2 weeks to wait until we see the specialist, which is not too bad as the waiting is the worst bit.
> 
> Hope you're all OK :hugs:
> 
> Sorry to hear about the 2nd SA, but I guess you were prepared for it being the same results.
> 
> I don't want to go against your GP, but we were told that an undescended testicle can cause azoospermia, although I think it depends when the corrective surgery was done?Click to expand...

Hi Jo

DH only had one undescended testicle which was corrected at 5/6 (I have seen online they now recommend by age 2). One side was always 'normal' (for want of a better word!)

Both of the GPs we have seen said that even if the undescended one was damaged the other one should be working OK and producing sperm which is why they are saying it wouldn't be the cause. Having said that I have come across several people online who's DHs have azoospermia and have had the same childhood op for just one or both sides which suggests there is a link there.....

TBH the GP openly told us that he has little experience in this area so he might well be wrong. Me and DH are both keeping a completely open mind and airing on the side of caution - we're geared up to use a donor and if they do find sperm then it will be a bonus :happydance:

How are you? When do you start IVF? I bet you can't wait now. If you don't mind me asking did the clinic provide your donor sperm or did you order it yourself? Also how much did it cost you? xx


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## Flake-y

Yes, if it was just one testicle that was affected then I would imagine that it would be working ok, I'm not sure of all the ins & outs of the testicles tho! :rofl:

Well we've already started IVF! Started taking the metformin yesterday, I've to take that for 3 weeks before I start the injections. It's a long process!

Our clinic had 5 sperm donors, but none of them were a match for DH; fortunately our clinic are linked to the European Sperm Bank in Denmark they have humdresd of donors so we had plenty of choice!

It was pretty dear though, altogether it worked out at £2000 ish for the sperm. No other choice tho, so we had to go for it!


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## GrantsWife

...


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## Deb111

Hi Alisha

You're very welcome here :flower:

It is very hard accepting that it wont happen naturally; it's a grieving process, but it sounds like there is hope there for you two to have your own biological child xx


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## Deb111

So sorry to hear your news Pink Lolly, but hope they are able to find some answers with the further tests you're waiting for. Great that you don't have to wait too long too xx


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## GrantsWife

....


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## april4jdg

We are on our way to dh's biopsy now. I will update later on this morning.


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## Flake-y

Welcome to the thread Alisha!

And lots of luck April, hoping for good news for you.


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## Deb111

Hoping you had some good news April and that DH is ok after the op xx :hugs:


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## april4jdg

hi, unfortunately we didn't have good new. The urologist told me that they didn't find any sperm. I spoke with he RE and she said that they had sent his tissue off to a pathology lab to determine the reason why. I asked her specifically about sertoli cell only and she said it certainly seemed suspicious of it... so she thinks that's what it is... We should get results back Tuesday...As for DH he is ok. But it broke my heart to tell him that the doctor didn't find anything... the urologist never came back to tell us together- he left me to tell DH which that was HORRIBLE. I could have dealt with it better together. I spoke with our RE yesterday, as I said earlier,and she told me it was completely normal to feel "stuck" right now...she said that people chose to complete their families in different ways (like she had- she used donor eggs, and she adopted a child from Russia)... So, I did mention Cornell university to DH and Dr Turek... So depending on what these lab results say- we may just do the second opinion clinic with Dr Turek... Just to see what he has to say...

DH hasn't really said much... I almost felt like I knew the results before they did the biopsy, because I had time to research information... I think it is kind of a shock to DH because he hasn't has as much time to stew over it...


not to mention the urologist gave DH a prescription for antbiotics, keflex...
and DH was severely allegic to it- so I had to rush him to the emergency room yesterday morning at 6 am.... we didnt leave til 12:30 in the afternoon.
ugh.:nope:


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## Deb111

Oh April, I'm so sorry hun :hugs: and to have the added problems with the anti-biotics too - I bet you're exhausted 

When you get the pathology report through, I would definitely have a chat with Dr Turek - we haven't decided which way to go yet, but we had a totally free 10 minute conversation with him, which was really useful

Thinking of you both
Love and hugs
Deb xx :hugs:


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## Hopeful27yrs

Our year started with reconsulting our urologist who's said we have a less than 2% chance of anything being retrieved at SSR and even less chance of any viable usable sperm *if* _anything_ is found. DH had hormone tests repeated and they indicate what we suspected - that nothing is going on. We've decided to go to the LWC in July and start planning for IUI then.


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## april4jdg

i saw that Dr Turek had the 2nd opinion clinic- and it was like 700.00 I think... But a free 10 min conversation... FREE! sounds good! I just am at a loss right now... plus my flexible spending account at work is hasseling me about paying for Dh's biopsy... to the tune of 1,420.00 and I am like, give me a break!!!!!:growlmad:


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## Deb111

Go to the link and you fill in the form - we got an email reply within an hour, but may take longer with the weekend.

https://www.theturekclinic.com/male-fertility-consultation.html

Then we arranged a time and phoned at that time and were put through to Dr Turek. Obviously we had to pay for the phonecall, but it's worth a few £'s or $'s just to get his opinion.

No point doing it until you have pathology results though and useful to have any other blood test / ultra sound results in front of you if you have them xx


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## Flake-y

april4jdg said:


> i saw that Dr Turek had the 2nd opinion clinic- and it was like 700.00 I think... But a free 10 min conversation... FREE! sounds good! I just am at a loss right now... plus my flexible spending account at work is hasseling me about paying for Dh's biopsy... to the tune of 1,420.00 and I am like, give me a break!!!!!:growlmad:

So sorry to hear the news April, hope DH is ok & recovering from his allergy too.

Sertoli Cell Only syndrome is what my DH has, this was only diagnosed once we had the pathology report though. 

Hope you are ok.


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## Nayla82

Huge Hugs April :hugs:

You have all been in my prayers. I hope and pray that you get answers very soon. My heart breaks for you dear. As Debs mentioned Dr Turk will only say its impossible when it really is! Im sure he will give 150% of his knowledge and expertise before he says explore other avenues.

I wish you all the best Hun and do keep us updated :hugs:


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## waitingginger

Hi all!!

Just stopping by quickly to update you on our appointment at the fertility clinic this morning!

Well we met with Doctor Sajjad at St Marys hospital had to have some blood testes repeated and another sperm analysis because it was done back in April and we have been messed around and she doesnt have all the results that she would need but she said the bloods she did may point towards a problem with the paturity gland not releasing hormones properlly to the testicles and that injections may help! she cant give us anymore info until all bood test results are back but she did say it isnt a genetic condition as has XY chromosones as expected. 
So we arent any further on but the fact she is saying about hormone levels and injections and things has given me so much hope that maybe there is something they can do. as i have been sitting here for months thinking there isnt any hope and we will have to use a donor.

W has to give in his next SA on 28th Jan and he has to go and produce it at the fertility clinic so that if any sperms do turn up they can freeze them!!! We made another appointment to se Dr Sajjad too but the receptionist said the next available one was 27th July!!! we booked it but she said we may get sent another appointment for before july!!

She really knew her stuff and is very very academic but very knowledgable. wish we would of been reffered correctly in the first place as if we had seen her first like we were suppossed to we would of been so much further down the line!!! she said still another 12-18 months from this point!! 

I know your IVF is planned soon Jo!! hope its all going ok!!
x x


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## Step Mummy

Hi ladies, I hope you are all well, and struggling on!

You may remember me, it is sometime since I last joined in, I am the one whose DH had the SSR and got the infection. 

I would absolutely love to be thinking about donors and babies, but unfortuantely we have been to hell and are still there! DH's infection got worse and worse, the doctors have ignored us, would not refer us back to the specialist who did the op, I had to do this myself in the end. basically the infection turned the testicle huge - as big as all that baggy skin could allow, then it burst at the start of Dec - it turned into an abscess!! how did the doctors not see this - god only knows! We should have been referred back for scans etc a long time ago. 

DH cannot walk far, cannot do any excercise, feels rough from the drugs, has to change a dressing down there every 3 hours, we have no life at the moment, he is only just managing to go to work as he is office and car based.

Finally we got back to see the specialist who was horrified he had been left and the doctors had told us to stay away from the hospital and A&E, he could not believe it. DH is now on a final 2 week course of antibiotics and if this doesn't show an improvement then he has to have a serious op which could result in losing the testicle.

All i can say to anyone who is considering an op - ask what to expect, what to look for when things go wrong, listen to your own intuition and go to A&E, don't be put off by the doctors telling you not to. at one stage I spoke to a doctor or NHS Direct Doctor twice a day for a week and they all said try and stay at home away from the doctor until your referral with the specialist which was a week away. He could not even get up for a wee and was peeing n a bottle, his ball was massive and as a result it popped (and then he could then not move so we couldn't get to A&E, so i called NHS direct again, and still they tell you to stay out of hospital, at that stage i should have called an ambulance).

I hope someone can learn from our expeirence, the main problem was no doctor really knew what they were dealing with as this is a new proceedure, also our first and only meeting with the specialist was 10 mins, thats not enough to discuss the proceedure and how to look after it afterwards and what to expect, we had never had ops before so had not idea what happens with swelling etc. When I collected him from hospital the nurses gave us paracetamol and ibuprophen and no dressings or instructions, as again they don't have the time. So you need to make sure you take the time.

All in all we have discussed donors and after all of this this is what we will do, but first we would like our lives back, for DH to be healthy off painkillers, no longer having a hole in his ball that is constantly pussing and just to be happy again, all before we take the next rollercoasting of trying to get pregnant! I think we deserve to have a holiday too (we have had to cancel two now - I booked a holiday each time it seemed he was getting better - but this time I will wait until he has been recovered for a month!)

I hope this helps someone make an informed decision! I don't wish to be the voice of doom, but if no-one tells their story then no-one can learn from it!

Good luck to all, I will try to access the site a little more now,
best wishesXXX


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## waitingginger

Oh my god step mummy!!! i cant believe all of that has happened! your poor hubby!!! i hope he is finally getting on the mend and getting lots of special attention after all of that!! x x x x


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## Deb111

Waiting ginger - Your FS sounds great! I'm impressed that they're getting hubby to do his next sample somewhere that they can freeze anything they find - very good planning. I'm also really interested to read about the hormone thing as my hubby has low testoserone and also underactive thyroid. I'd be grateful for any info regarding this as and when you get it :coffee:

Step mummy - so sorry that this has all been such a nightmare for you but hope that hubby is now finally on the mend and that you can get that well deserved holiday 

xx


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## Pink Lolly

Hi All

Just popping in to say hello! It seems like loads has been happening already this year!

Flakey - how is your IVF going? You must be so excited to be finally starting it! Fingers crossed for you hun xxx

Waiting Ginger - Glad that you have finally seen someone who can help you, sounds like it was a positive appointment for you!

April - so sorry to hear your news. I hope you and DH are hanging in there.

Step Mummy - So sorry to hear of the trauma you have been through and thank you for sharing your story. I think we are all in the unknown and the more clued up we are on the good and bad sides the better. Lots of love to your poor DH X

We have our appointment this Thursday so will pop by again and let you know how we get on.

Lots of love to you all xxx


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## Flake-y

Omg stepmummy, your poor hubby! Glad he had finally seen the specialist & is on he mend. Y'know when we left the hospital we were also given no care instructions, what to expect etc, I had to phone to find out when DH was to take his dressing off!

Hope you manage to get a holiday soon!


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## waitingginger

Hi Everyone

Just a quick update from me. We have had a letter from our appoinment last week with the results of the blood tests on. OH wouldnt read ti word for word over the phone so only have the info he has remembered which goes along the line of 'Testosterone normal' 'FSH and LH inappropriatley low' the Dr reccomends we dont have a the SSR and has reffered to see another Dr. someone called Dr Woo i dont know what they do might need to ring up if the letter doesnt expand.
From my understanding i think that is fairly good news as sounds like it is a hormone inbalance and i am sure she said if this was the scenario she would look at the injections. We are now wondering if when OH fractured his skull when he was a child and was on a life support machine has done something to his paturity gland which controls these hormones as oen of the questions the doctors alwasy ask is have you had any head injuries.

Anyway enough of my ramblings i am off to do some googling lol!

Hope you are well! atleast we half way through the week!! 
Much love


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## waitingginger

Sorry mean to post this in my journal now i cant see how to delet it!!!

Hormone imbalance
Unlike the woman, hormone imbalances in the man are not a common cause of fertility problems . These problems can stem from organs as far apart as the brain or the testicles, and can show up in blood tests. They can arise because of:

Head injury 
A tumour in the pituitary gland at the base of your brain 
A tumor in the adrenal gland, above the kidneys. 
Malfunctioning of the pituitary gland 
Cirrhosis of the liver 
Conditions present from birth, such as and Klinefelter's syndrome (47, XXY syndrome) 
A thyroid problem 
One problem is that of hyperprolactinaemia (a high prolactin level). This is usually caused by a pituitary malfunction or tumour; and can be detected by a blood test. Patients with hyperprolactinemia often also have decreased libido and may be impotent. Treatment with bromocryptine to suppress the high prolactin levels is highly successful in achieving pregnancy.

Another problem is that of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (poor function of the testes because of inadequate stimulation of the testes by the gonadotropic hormones, FSH and LH produced by the pituitary). Most hypogonadotropic patients are hypogonadal - that is, they have low levels of the male hormone, testosterone. This means they have poorly developed secondary sexual characters ; an effeminate appearance; scanty hair; decreased libido , and small flabby testes. This can be confirmed by blood tests which show low levels of FSH and LH. This can be treated by replacement therapy with the gonadotropin hormones - HCG and HMG. These are expensive injections and a fairly long course of treatment is needed for them to work , but they are effective in enhancing sperm production in these men.

Well we can rule out the hypogondal part because W has normal testosterone and is defo not 'effeminate' ha ha he is so muscly and covered in body hair. hope we see the doctor soon!!


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## Deb111

Linzie - we NEED to see a bump pic of your eggplant!!!! :happydance: xx


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## Flake-y

Deb111 said:


> Linzie - we NEED to see a bump pic of your eggplant!!!! :happydance: xx

I was thinking the same thing!!!


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## loobylou_01

LOL! i will try! am off work this week and nothing doing tomorrow so i will make it my aim of the day!! i am rubbish!! xx


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## Nayla82

Hi All :flower:

Waiting Ginger oh thats excellent news!! im so made up for you. Hopefully with the right drugs and getting everything balanced he will be able to produce some good healthy sperms for ICSI! :happydance:

Jo- your definitely in my prayers really looking forward for your :bfp:, Your really deserve it after all that you have been through :hugs:

AFM It has been the craziest 5 weeks off my life, From finding our my husband has zero sperms to a couple of sperms, Now I have been told that i can start my treatment ICSI at the start of feb which is just over 10 days away! :wacko:
Im really am so confused/excited/nervous etc etc as were still waiting to see has the Clomid increased his count to a decent number??

The FS is 100% informed of where we are with the Urologist and said it should not be a problem what so ever and wants to prepare my body in Feb all ready for Marchs Cycle?? Again my husband feels the same as me not sure whether we go ahead and wish for the best or get our fears ironed out...

Were going on Monday to chat to the Urologist tell him is it worth preparing my body in Feb for Marchs cycle or should we wait?? I will be elated if he says we can go ahead with the treatment, the thought of him saying yes really brings tears to my eyes :cry: but we definitely need to know ASAP as the FS wants me to take blood test when my period comes, again thats only 10 or 11 days away :wacko:

I will keep you all updated, it just seems the rollarcoster has already started before the treatment!

I so wish that Happiness will hit me again...

Lots of love and luck to everyone else in here, and Looby lou wow not long left for you Hun hope pregnancy is a smooth ride xx


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## Pink Lolly

Hi All,

Just an update as we had our appt with the consultant today....here is what happened.

First of all they asked us both some questions and checked our eligibility for funding etc. Then she said I will need to have an internal scan on Day 10/12 of my next cycle to check my uterus and ovaries- they would have done it today but I'm too far on in this cycle so I have to ring them next time the :witch: arrives to book it in for next cycle! For once I can't wait for the :witch:, should be here next week so scan in about 3 weeks!!

They checked through my blood results sent by my GP and said they all look good but they have taken some more today as there were a couple of other things they needed to check for - AMH (ovarian reserve), Rubella and Chlamydia antibodies (that could indicate blocked tubes). However, they did say they're not anticipating any problems as we have an obvious reason already with DH - but they have to check everything.

As for DH....his blood test results were there but his GP only tested for Testorerone which came back normal, not LH or FSH. The nurse took some more blood today to check his LH and FSH levels too. They have also sent another blood sample away for the Genetic side of things and the results will be back in 3/4 weeks for that. I am not really sure what this is though, although she did explain I can't remember! 

DH also needs to be examined which he is dreading - I would have preferred it if they did that today to get it done and out of the way because he will be worrying about it now! But that is going to be with a different consultant. They said they would request that now and the appt will prob come through for March and by then all of our results will be there and we can then discuss the way forward at the same time!

All in all I feel like it went really well, they were all so lovely at the clinic and I'm happy that things are moving forward.

I'm also glad to see your good news Ginger - its fantastic that they are going to look at injections for DH! Fingers crossed for you!

Nayla - very pleased to see that things are also moving on for you! That is so quick which is great because the waiting is the worst bit of it all. Will your DH be having an SSR or are they hoping the chlomid will have worked by then?


Sorry for such and long post and thank you to you all! When the consultant was talking to us today I was so familiar with the tests and terms etc already because I have learned so much on here and it is so good to feel well informed. :hugs: to you all xx


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## Flake-y

Glad things are going well pinklolly! Hope your DH survives his examination...not the nicest thing but has to be done!!!


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## loobylou_01

Trying to upload a bump photo, not sure if it's gonna work! :dohh:

Pinklolly, really pleased your appointment went well, sure the exam won't be as bad as he expects. MArch isn't too long to wait either for your next appt either. hope you're feeling but more positive after today :winkwink:
 



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## Flake-y

Love the bump piccie! It's all so exciting! Did you find out the sex? I seem to remember you wanted a surprise?


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## loobylou_01

No it's a big surprise! and have no idea either way, we don't have a gut feeling or anything! one day i think boy, then i think girl! xxx


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## Deb111

Hi Pink

Glad your appt went so well. The genetic tests will be to see if he is a cystic fibrosis carrier, to check for Y chromosome micro-deletion and also a karyotype test 

xx


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## Deb111

Yay for the bump picture Linzie!! :happydance: Very cute xx


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## Pink Lolly

Thanks all and thanks for the info Deb - that makes sense now!

Louby - loving the bump pic!! x


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## MissAma

Oh wow, never seen this thread, hope you ladies don't mind me popping on here to wish you loads of good luck. Hell soon I may make this thread a home when we have enough money and energy to try again.


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## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Oh wow, never seen this thread, hope you ladies don't mind me popping on here to wish you loads of good luck. Hell soon I may make this thread a home when we have enough money and energy to try again.

Glad you found us. It's nice to hear of a success story :happydance:


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## Mrs. V

Hi ladies!
I would like to join this thread if you all don't mind.


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## MissAma

I'm very new to it too Mrs V but from having read many of these wonderful -and might I add because heck it's true, very strong! ladies- before I can't imagine they would be anything other than happy that you're here:)


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## Deb111

Hi Mrs V and welcome :flower:

Let us know a bit more about your TTC story when you get a chance x


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## loobylou_01

Welcome Mrs V! x


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## Flake-y

Mrs. V said:


> Hi ladies!
> I would like to join this thread if you all don't mind.

Welcome to the thread!:hi:


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Mrs V - you are very welcome here. What's your story? X


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## Mrs. V

Thanks for the warm welcome ladies! You're all so friendly.
I must be at the right thread at last!

Well, this is my story.....in short:

My DH has always had a low everything, so we had to to ICSI in December as this was our
only chance at conceiving. Our FS knew all our history but skipped testing my DH's hormone tests, as which we discovered he has extremely low FSH. His FSH just got less and less for some reason. If there's no FSH, then sperm production stops completely. This was only discovered on the day of my ER and after two sperm samples and an emergency TESE. Someone didn't do there homework.....
So, basically alot of money down the drain and we are starting from scratch.
As you see in my signature we are in the process of making spermies. My DH was given a bag of injectable meds, Ovidrel and Menopur. He has just completed week 4 of 8.
I really hope this is going to work...I do have hope. 

What I have come to realise is that all tests possible should be done to see what is the cause of azoospermia. I think alot of the causes can be fixed. We just need to keep ourselves updated by surfing the net and looking at symtoms and possible causes. There is so much info out there.

I will post the news if we find sperm in his next SA.

Thanx again for the welcome, looking forward to getting to know you all soon.


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## Flake-y

Omg Mrs V, how horrendous for you both! I hope your clinic is giving you a free cycle for their blunder. 

Yes, I've heard that they can replace the missing FSH & that can completely correct the problem. Hope that happens for your DH. 

Keep in touch!!!


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## Deb111

Looking forward to hearing how it all works out for you Mrs V. It really does seem like each of our hubby's has different causes for their azoospermia so it's good that we can share the knowledge we have learnt along the way - you never know who might be helped by the info that someone posts

xx


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## Mrs. V

I will definitely keep posting, it will be nice to help others too. xxx


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## waitingginger

Welcome Mrs V! good to here you story, we have also just been diagnosed with low FSH and lh, testosterone and everything else normal. we have an appointment on 17th March with an endocrinologist, who is a specialist in hormones and the systems which secrete them! fingers crossed we should then start on the same injections as your hubby mrs V! have they said what has caused the low FSH is it a problem with the paturity gland? If anyone else is interested in thr whole azoospermia and hormone link have found the entry on wikipedia good although way too much stuff to research now! i am just so thankful we have some really good doctors exploring every single option for us!! the next doctor we see is such a specalist research doctor in his field!!

I hope all the rest of you are doing ok!!! it great to see some success stories!!!
x x x x


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## Mrs. V

waitingginger said:


> Welcome Mrs V! good to here you story, we have also just been diagnosed with low FSH and lh, testosterone and everything else normal. we have an appointment on 17th March with an endocrinologist, who is a specialist in hormones and the systems which secrete them! fingers crossed we should then start on the same injections as your hubby mrs V! have they said what has caused the low FSH is it a problem with the paturity gland? If anyone else is interested in thr whole azoospermia and hormone link have found the entry on wikipedia good although way too much stuff to research now! i am just so thankful we have some really good doctors exploring every single option for us!! the next doctor we see is such a specalist research doctor in his field!!
> 
> I hope all the rest of you are doing ok!!! it great to see some success stories!!!
> x x x x

Hi Amy!

I'm not sure why my DH's FSH is low, but at least is can be corrected. It was something like 0.3 and normal is between 1.5 - 25 (something like that)...not sure, but below the 1.5.
I hope we can go through this journey together and keep eachother updated since we are going through a similar situation. If I may ask, what was your DH's FSH level?

Keep in touch.
xxx


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## waitingginger

Hi Mrs V,
I am so looking forward to getting started on the injections!! i dont know the levels the letter we got just said low but we have an an appoinment on 17th March although now you have said that i might phone the clinic and ask!! :) x


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## Mrs. V

waitingginger said:


> Hi Mrs V,
> I am so looking forward to getting started on the injections!! i dont know the levels the letter we got just said low but we have an an appoinment on 17th March although now you have said that i might phone the clinic and ask!! :) x

Hi Amy!

Such a long time until the appointment. I would go nuts waiting so long. :)
Please let me know if you get the FSH result.

Keep me posted!

Mrs. V.
xxx


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## waitingginger

Hey! well before i could phone a letter came with the hormone results on:
FSH: just says less then 1
LH: 0.5
Testosterone: 14.6

Hope that helps everyone else to compare too aswell!
x


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## april4jdg

hope you all are are doing ok.
DH and I are in the process, of using donor sperm first, before we move on to adoption... I just want to experience carrying a baby, and giving birth. So I am going to call RE's office, and ask about $, so we can start crunching numbers, I already sent Dh's photo's to a sperm bank that is small, and does photo matching for free. so, that was interesting all in itself... But, using DS, is going to be cheaper than adoption for us...

welcome new ladies! : )


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Everyone

Just thought I'd say hello as I have an appointment tomorrow for my mid cycle internal scan - feeling a bit nervous tonight :nope:

Be glad when it's over though and at least it means we're one step closer!!

Hope you're all ok xxx:flower:


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## loobylou_01

Good luck with your scan honey, it will be fine, they're not as bad as you think xxx


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## Dancergirl

Hi All.... it has been awhile since I have been on here as we took the months of Dec. and Jan. off due to vacations and various reasons. It was nice to get a little time off without thinking about my cycle and all the appointments, but we are ready to get back into the swing of working on expanding our family.

I went in for an x-ray to check my tubes and internal parts last Tuesday. Everything looks great! That was good news, it seems like we haven't gotten any good news in many, many months. 

We are planning on starting injections this next cycle!! Not excited for getting shots in the butt daily, but if it gets us a child, it will definitely be worth it!! So wish us luck this month as my cycle should start this Friday. 

Oh, one question. With our 4 failed IUI's we used the same donor. We felt good about choosing this unknown donor and they have had success with the donor sperm. Dr. said it looked great each time she examined it before using it for IUI so we just used the same one. I am wondering if anyone has advice about keeping with the same donor and if we should choose another one?


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## Deb111

Hi girls

Dancergirl - wishing you lots of luck with your next cycle. Personally, if it was me, I think I would be wanting to try a different donor, but that's just a gut instinct as I haven't been in that position.

Pink - you will be fine I'm sure. I *really* struggle with smears, but I managed the internal scan a lot more easily

Let me know any dates that need updating on the front page girls

xx


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## Flake-y

April-good luck finding the right donor for you & your DH!

Pink-hope your scan went well today! 

Dancergirl-Lots of luck for this cycle; I woulnd't know what to do about changing the donor or not, but I'd say it wouldn't do any harm. I've read about people who changed the donor & got a bfp on the next cycle, but of course that might have been just a coincidence. Good luck anyway.


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Everyone

Well I went for my scan today and you were right it wasn't as scary as I thought it would be! :thumbup:

The nurse was really nice which helped and said my ovaries and uterus looked fine - :happydance: She showed me on the screen - it was fascinating!

She could see that my left ovary was bigger and said that means that this one will release the egg this month, but it was a bit early in my cycle so I have to have a blood test on Day 21 just to confirm ovulation as well.

While we were there we asked the nurse if DHs results were back....she said his Testosterone is normal and LH and FSH was borderline high (whatever that means). She couldnt tell us anymore and said we have to wait until our appt with the consultant on 8th March and they will explain it all. 

Hope you ladies are all well xx


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## loobylou_01

Glad it went well for you hun :) and that your innards were looking good! that's a big relief, i remember!

Off the top of my head i think that my DH's FSH was on the higher side too. 8th March is gonna come round pretty quick now, i'm wishing the time away too.

Take care xxx


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## Deb111

Glad it went well hun and hope you get some positive news at your appt in March xx


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## Pink Lolly

Thanks Girls, the time is going really fast which is great and 8th March will be here before we know it, it does feel like us TTCers wish our lives away doesnt it, always looking forward to the next appt! But oh well, when we all get our :bfp: the time can go as slow as it likes!!

When DHs appt was booked, they said he would need to be examined...can anyone tell me what exactly they are likely to do? I have heard that some men have an ultrasound scan done. Whatever it is I won't tell DH because he will be dreading it! But I would like to be prepared!

We have also just put our house on the market on top of it all....as if life isn't stressful enough!! But gives something else to focus on! xx


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## Deb111

Terry just had a quick physical examination - size of testicles etc :shrug: Didn't take more than a minute or two.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think they only do an ultrasound if other results suggest it's necessary. Like if they can't feel the vas deferens, they may do an ultrasound to check if it is there. Terry's blood test results didn't suggest a blockage so they felt no need to do an ultrasound

xx


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## MissAma

Pink Lolly said:


> But oh well, when we all get our :bfp: the time can go as slow as it likes!!

Nope as son as you do, you will start wishing it away till the first scan then till the second trimester then till Viability day then till birth. And then till 1 year when SIDS is no longer a concern... you get the picture. :haha:



Deb111 said:


> Terry just had a quick physical examination - size of testicles etc :shrug: Didn't take more than a minute or two.

Same here. The doctor even had a few plastic testicles to compare against - I would have laughed were I not that teary over the zero sperm results. The ultrasound and all are to discover blockages, if they have no reason to presume any obstruction then it's NOA (Non-Obstructive Azoospermia) and not much they can test for.

But one thing I will say, if I were to do it all again I would ask for EVERY test under the sun. Mapping, ultrasound, kidney tests, you name it. Anything that may even remotely uncover a cause.


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## Deb111

Kidney tests? I'm curious?

Gorgeous avatar of Dara!


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## loobylou_01

DH had examination but again it was only a very quick physical exam to check sizing etc. He had also previously had a scan to check for any blockages - unfortunately none were found.

Physical exam did only last a couple of minutes, if that. Unfortunately by the end of treatment etc your DH will be well used to the docs having a good feel! Oh the joys xxx


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## Flake-y

Yeah, my DH just had a quick physical exam too, the urologist said he could feel the vas deferens, wherever that is!!!


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## GrantsWife

...


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## MissAma

Deb111 said:


> Kidney tests? I'm curious?
> 
> Gorgeous avatar of Dara!

Thanks! I'm thinking of making her a baby grow with the text "I kicked Azoospermia's butt"

Yes, we were offered early on a kidney ultrasound or at the very least blood tests to establish acid ureeic content and others and check the function of the kidney. It seems some kidney diseases can result in Azoospermia and hence, there is a very slim possibility that if something urological is found then the cause can be treated.

In fact, unconnected to our IVF saga we are having the Viking check his kidneys again these days and tomorrow he has a meeting with an urologist lady to check results of a catscan so I will have him again ask if there is any possible correlation and any other test that can be performed. I'll update after he does so. -Or have his balls if he forgets to do so! Oh wait, no we need those for another TESE so he can keep them meanwhile.:haha:-


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## HopeWhispers

Hi,

It's been a while since I last stopped by. I am the one whose OH lost both testicles due to injury and then cancer. We are not TTC, so there's no update to share really. I just like to pop in every now and again to read how you are all getting on. I suppose it's kind of preparation for my turn, when/if that ever comes.

Glad to see some of you have had good news since I was last here, but saddened for those who have had more tough times.

Step Mummy - how are things now? Sorry to hear how bad things have been. My OH was turfed out of the hospital the same day his testicle had been poked and prodded and biopsied (for cancer and sperm retrieval), then removed an replaced with a prosthetic, with a small bag of paracetamol and ibuprofen. When we realised we marched back in (well, we walked very slowly and very carefully) and it turned out that they had forgotten to give him his full prescription, which should have included tramadol!! It also turned out weeks later that he should have had a strong anti-inflammatory which they never gave him and that resulted in weeks of unnecessary pain. 

I'd still be interested to hear from anyone who has used donor sperm in the UK about how the process works. Through all of our ordeal we never once got to speak to any kind of fertility doctor, so we have absolutely no information about the options available to us. We have figured out that with no sperm stored and no possibility of making new sperm, we will never have our own children (although if I'm being totally honest I do fantasise that by the time we want to start a family there will be a new treatment that makes it possible to have his baby - setting myself up for a fall there). We think our options are adoption or sperm donor, but as I say, we really don't know how either process works.

Wishing and hoping for you all.


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## Flake-y

Hey hopewhispers,

Glad to see you back!

We are using a sperm donor, we got the sperm from the european sperm bank, which is in denmark, but will supply the UK. You can check out the website which is pretty good.

As for new technology, I've heard that they are researching into swapping the DNA of the donor, with the DNA of the azoospermic man, making him the biological father, rather than the donor. Don't know how long it'll be before this is widely available though, but it's still interesting to know that it will probably be possible to have biological kids even if you have no sperm!


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## loobylou_01

Hi hopewhispers,

We used donor sperm last year for our IVF cycle and as you can see from my ticker it was successful! Our clinic sourced our sperm which is UK based i think. And it's all been really straight forward, lots of forms to fill, a compulsary counselling session and that's it!

Our SSR did actually retrieve sperm but it was ? poor quality and had to make decision there and then as i'd just had my eggs retrieved, they couldn't really advise us whether or not DH's sperm would work or not, therefore DH decided that we should go with the donor as he wanted it to work. Therefore i also harbour hopes that one day we will be able to use some of DH's sperm, who knows! we have 2 frozen embryo's in the freezer too. We have been very lucky. I think that anyone who has experienced azoospermia etc harbours some hope for the future.

xxx


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## MissAma

Speaking of hoping against hope how many people keep TTCing despite the azoospermia diagnostic? Or am l the only weirdo?


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## waitingginger

Your not alone MissAma!! i know its not going to happen but everytime is see that i am ovulating its like right its time just in case! :) ha ha think i would learn after 2.5 years of nothing!

My OH has a quite a few physical exams now they just have a general feel around! for texture and size and things! and he had an ultrasound too!
He has had the chromosone blood test came back as normal. Full hormones put the results on earlier, normal testosterone and low FSH and LH. Now we are seeing an endrochronolgist which is a brain specalist to see why his hormones arent being released properly. they think it could be an issue with his paturity gland which could then be fixed with injections.

I feel so grateful that we are able to explore every option. they have said though that there is no point in doing an SSR now its impossible to find anything and only if sperm is eveient after injections would we have an SSR. so injections are our only option really!!

Keeping my fingers crossed next appointment with the brain man on 17th March. couldnt come quickly enough! is it just me or is everyone pregnant at the moment? x


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## Deb111

HopeWhispers said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Glad to see some of you have had good news since I was last here, but saddened for those who have had more tough times.

Nice to see you Hope. Hope things are good with you xx



Flake-y said:


> Hey hopewhispers,
> 
> As for new technology, I've heard that they are researching into swapping the DNA of the donor, with the DNA of the azoospermic man, making him the biological father, rather than the donor. Don't know how long it'll be before this is widely available though, but it's still interesting to know that it will probably be possible to have biological kids even if you have no sperm!

I will have to google this!! That would be amazing!!!



MissAma said:


> Speaking of hoping against hope how many people keep TTCing despite the azoospermia diagnostic? Or am l the only weirdo?

I would if I had the chance! There's certainly no harm in it! But, I have a hubby with extremely low testosterone levels and no sex drive, and it didn't help when the specialist said there was no point in TTC naturally! I could have smacked him one! So although hubby has dealt with it all very well in many ways, I'm embarassed to say we've only :sex:'d twice since his diagnosis 10 months ago! :nope:



waitingginger said:


> Now we are seeing an endrochronolgist which is a brain specalist to see why his hormones arent being released properly. they think it could be an issue with his paturity gland which could then be fixed with injections.

Keeping everything crossed for you that this is something that's fixable xx


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## MissAma

Oh sadly l know all about low sex drive! If it were after him we'd do it twice a year! I never thought l'd envy women who complain their men pester them for a shag!


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## Deb111

Flake-y said:


> Hey hopewhispers,
> 
> As for new technology, I've heard that they are researching into swapping the DNA of the donor, with the DNA of the azoospermic man, making him the biological father, rather than the donor. Don't know how long it'll be before this is widely available though, but it's still interesting to know that it will probably be possible to have biological kids even if you have no sperm!

Has anyone got a link to anything about this?? I'd be interested in having a read but can't find anything anywhere



MissAma said:


> Oh sadly l know all about low sex drive! If it were after him we'd do it twice a year! I never thought l'd envy women who complain their men pester them for a shag!

It's nice to know I'm not alone :nope:


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## Flake-y

I can't remember where I heard it Deb, it was on here somewhere though, maybe on this thread or one of the other girl's journals?


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## Deb111

Hhhmmm I think I know where I may have seen it now you mention it ... but I don't seem to be able to find ANYTHING on google! Strange ... :coffee:


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## Pink Lolly

MissAma said:


> Speaking of hoping against hope how many people keep TTCing despite the azoospermia diagnostic? Or am l the only weirdo?

Miss Ama and Ginger - you are not mad for hoping!!

I had completely given up hope and hadnt even been TTC....but when I went for my internal scan last week the nurse said 'It looks like you will ovulate at the weekend so you should start trying from Thursday'

And I actually looked at her and thought 'Trying what??!!' lol!! Then I caught on, but she must have realised because she said never give up hope, you only need one!! 

We didnt bother though because I hate that disappointed feeling that we all know so well! xx


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## Deb111

Well we have our appointment with Dr Ramsay on Saturday and I'm starting to really worry. Of course I'm desperate for a baby but starting all over again just feels like we are setting ourselves up for more disappointment. I'm scared of what we will be told, but I guess we will never know if we don't try.

My IBS has been dreadful every evening this week and I'm sure it's because I'm worried about the appt. I wish we had the time to back off and take a bit of a break from it all but I'm 37 and Terry is 44 so we don't have that luxury.

Anyway, I've kind of got out of practise of working out what we need to ask so here's what I've come up with so far ... any other ideas gratefully received!

- what does his procedure involve and how does it compare with what Dr Schlegel and Dr Turek do / mTESE / sperm mapping?

- would he put Terry on clomid leading up to the op? (Dr Turek said it is important that he's on it beforehand so we want to know his opinion on it)

- will they freeze anything they find in SA's?

- will they co-ordinate so that I can do a fresh cycle if they find sperm?

- will we be able to co-ordinate that with a clinic here so I don't have to travel down to windsor for the whole process - just EC / ET?

- need to ask about his prolactin levels in case hyperprolactinemia is an issue

- need to ask about kidney function test

- costs involved? :wacko:

Am I missing anything obvious?? xx


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## loobylou_01

Gosh Deb you seem to have covered loads there, i can't think of anything at the moment but i will post if i do think of something else. Good questions. Really hope it goes well xx


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## Pink Lolly

Oh Deb - try not to worry and think you are taking a positive step closer. 

I am not really up on it all but your list looks good - I will post again if I think of anything xxx


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## Flake-y

That's great your appointment is Saturday, don't worry, it's the next step forward to getting your baby!

Think you've got all the bases covered with your questions, make sure you write them all down so you don't forget at the time!


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## MissAma

PinkLolly - I am doing more than hoping, I confess I gave up any trace of rationality and actively TTCed this cycle. What can I say, I'm a proper masochist. 

Deb - I really like your list and think it's rather complete. -And am envious that you get to see the great Ramsay- The only things I would add if I were to see such a great specialist are:

- Is thawed sperm less likely to succeed?
- Is it true that embryos from testicular sperm are far less likely to divide/ survive past day 3 and in that case isn't it logical that only Blastos should be transfered? What is the argument towards doing a 3DT transfer? Better chances in womb? By what percent? 
- What is the proposed course of action stimulation wise? Is trying to get as many eggs as possible -to increase the chances for blasto- a good idea or is quantity diminishing quality? 
- Does he do any Anepluidy and HSG testing?
- Is aggressive Progesterone therapy afterwards useful?`- E.g. Injectable instead of pills
- Would steroids after help? How do they affect the new embryo? Will it help an embryo failing to divide because it is from testicular sperm? Is it worth it in terms of throwing everything at it to make it succeed?
- Is PGD recommended in male issues?
- Would Assisted Hatching help the embryo in our case or do you not believe implantation is an issue?


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## Deb111

MissAma said:


> PinkLolly - I am doing more than hoping, I confess I gave up any trace of rationality and actively TTCed this cycle. What can I say, I'm a proper masochist.
> 
> Deb - I really like your list and think it's rather complete. -And am envious that you get to see the great Ramsay- The only things I would add if I were to see such a great specialist are:
> 
> - Is thawed sperm less likely to succeed?
> - Is it true that embryos from testicular sperm are far less likely to divide/ survive past day 3 and in that case isn't it logical that only Blastos should be transfered? What is the argument towards doing a 3DT transfer? Better chances in womb? By what percent?
> - What is the proposed course of action stimulation wise? Is trying to get as many eggs as possible -to increase the chances for blasto- a good idea or is quantity diminishing quality?
> - Does he do any Anepluidy and HSG testing?
> - Is aggressive Progesterone therapy afterwards useful?`- E.g. Injectable instead of pills
> - Would steroids after help? How do they affect the new embryo? Will it help an embryo failing to divide because it is from testicular sperm? Is it worth it in terms of throwing everything at it to make it succeed?
> - Is PGD recommended in male issues?
> - Would Assisted Hatching help the embryo in our case or do you not believe implantation is an issue?

Wow! thanks for the suggestions - I thought I was pretty clued up on all this, but there's a few things there I'm off to google! :wacko: xx


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## waitingginger

anyone else getting to a point where they are just soooooo tired of waiting!!! it will of been a year in April since we found out about the Azoospermia and it doesnt feel like a great deal has been accomplished! whilst around you loads people keep getting pregnant!
I was good to start with just waiting but now its really starting to get to me 2 1/2 years of trying and feels like another 2 1/2 to go!!
Sorry i am sounding so downbeat! its just all i can think about at the moment!
x


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## Flake-y

waitingginger said:


> anyone else getting to a point where they are just soooooo tired of waiting!!! it will of been a year in April since we found out about the Azoospermia and it doesnt feel like a great deal has been accomplished! whilst around you loads people keep getting pregnant!
> I was good to start with just waiting but now its really starting to get to me 2 1/2 years of trying and feels like another 2 1/2 to go!!
> Sorry i am sounding so downbeat! its just all i can think about at the moment!
> x

Yeah, it can seem like it's neverending, but once things get started, it all goes so quick, it won't seem like you've been waiting at all!!!


----------



## Pink Lolly

waitingginger said:


> anyone else getting to a point where they are just soooooo tired of waiting!!! it will of been a year in April since we found out about the Azoospermia and it doesnt feel like a great deal has been accomplished! whilst around you loads people keep getting pregnant!
> I was good to start with just waiting but now its really starting to get to me 2 1/2 years of trying and feels like another 2 1/2 to go!!
> Sorry i am sounding so downbeat! its just all i can think about at the moment!
> x

Ginger I know how you feel - I have been feeling a bit the same lately. So far quite a lot has happened for us since Christmas and things are moving and I was glad about that...but this week it has got on top of me again and I suddenly feel that it is all very unfair and have been feeling sorry for myself.

Youre right it does feel like everyone else is pregnant or already has a baby. Like today I was at Asda and it was like everywhere I looked I saw a tiny baby - I'm not sure if there really are loads or if its psychological and you just notice them more - do you know what I mean? 

We only found out in November which has only been 3 and a bit months, so I really feel for you having waited so long. It is hard but we must try to stay positive - keep busy and the time will go fast. I have started doing exercise classes two evenings a week and that seems to make the time go too as it comes around so quickly and plan lots of nice things to keep you occupied.

:hugs: xxx


----------



## Deb111

Hugs to you all xx :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

COPIED FROM MY JOURNAL - Ok here goes, so bear with me because this may be long :coffee: lol but hopefully some of what we have been told may help someone else and it's a good record for me to keep of all the info too

So Dr Ramsay was such a lovely man. Very humble and says what he does is easy - he's not clever and just needs to know how to use a microscope! Well I guess a lot of people know how to do that, but I don't think Terry would let them cut his bits open! :rofl:

He immeidately put us at our ease and although he was nearly 20 minutes late seeing us, he reassured us that we had plenty of time to discuss everything we needed to and our 30 minute appt ended up being nearly 50 minutes.

So here's what he told us

- testosterone level measured in a blood test will not be the same as testosterone level in testes. There will be about 20 times as much in testes and therefore even with Terry's low blood testosterone level, there should still be enough in testes for normal sperm production

- clomid doesn't raise testosterone, but will increase FSH in order to drive sperm production

- normal FSH is 10-12. Terry's is 15 so not excessively high, but body has already tried to boost itself and probably needs a helping hand

- in a few men he has treated with clomid where FSH has been normal before treatment, they have gone on to produce some sperm in the ejaculate

- however, with the small number of NOA cases in the UK, there are not enough cases to do random studies to give conclusive results on this kind of treatment 

- serum oestradiol levels / ratios with other hormones will tell him which drug to use to condition Terry before the op (Clomid / Arimadex etc)

- as Terry has put on a lot of weight becuase of his thyroid problem, it is possible that his body is metabolising some of his testosterone in the fat (?)

- going to the gym, getting fitter and losing weight will increase his testosterone and will help the situation

- the op he will perform is mTESE where he will open the testicle and study it with a powerful microscope and look for the fuller tubules to remove for embryologist. Now I thought waiting 15 mins for the TESE procedure was hell, but this will be an hour and a half with a general anasthetic

- ICSI will cost about £7000 and Terry's side of things will be £3000 - £3500

- he would advise a donor back up, but doesn't insist on it

- he will want a SA doing and they will freeze anything they find - even if they only find one in SA, he definitely wouldn't feel any need for a donor back up

- could be NHS funded at Hammersmith, but it couldn't be a fresh, co-ordinated cycle there

- only place we can do a fresh co-ordinated cycle with him is at The Lister and would have to be privately funded

- Terry's prolactin levels are normal (so no hyperprolactinaemia)

- no need to do kidney tests as he's happy the cause has been identified so not looking for another cause

- not worried about lowering testosterone levels for Terry's future health by doing op as he will only do one side - the 3 sperm were all previously found in the one side, so he says he knows there are in there. He says it's highly likely there are some in the other side too, but will go for the definite side

So there you go lol and when asked "We know you can never be 100% with something like this, but how sure do you feel that you will find some?" His reply .... "Can't you tell by my reactions to your questions that I'm very happy about where we're at?"

"So you think you will find some?"

"Oh yes!"

So the plan now ...

Blood tests from GP - FSH, LH, Testosterone, SHBG (?), LFT, Thyroid Function Tests, Prolactin, Oestadiol

And then when we have those results, it's back down to Windsor for a follow up appt and plan of action

If you made it to the end of this ... I'm impressed! xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

Wow deb - glad you got on well with Dr Ramsay. That all sounds very promising xxx




Deb111 said:


> COPIED FROM MY JOURNAL - Ok here goes, so bear with me because this may be long :coffee: lol but hopefully some of what we have been told may help someone else and it's a good record for me to keep of all the info too
> 
> So Dr Ramsay was such a lovely man. Very humble and says what he does is easy - he's not clever and just needs to know how to use a microscope! Well I guess a lot of people know how to do that, but I don't think Terry would let them cut his bits open! :rofl:
> 
> He immeidately put us at our ease and although he was nearly 20 minutes late seeing us, he reassured us that we had plenty of time to discuss everything we needed to and our 30 minute appt ended up being nearly 50 minutes.
> 
> So here's what he told us
> 
> - testosterone level measured in a blood test will not be the same as testosterone level in testes. There will be about 20 times as much in testes and therefore even with Terry's low blood testosterone level, there should still be enough in testes for normal sperm production
> 
> - clomid doesn't raise testosterone, but will increase FSH in order to drive sperm production
> 
> - normal FSH is 10-12. Terry's is 15 so not excessively high, but body has already tried to boost itself and probably needs a helping hand
> 
> - in a few men he has treated with clomid where FSH has been normal before treatment, they have gone on to produce some sperm in the ejaculate
> 
> - however, with the small number of NOA cases in the UK, there are not enough cases to do random studies to give conclusive results on this kind of treatment
> 
> - serum oestradiol levels / ratios with other hormones will tell him which drug to use to condition Terry before the op (Clomid / Arimadex etc)
> 
> - as Terry has put on a lot of weight becuase of his thyroid problem, it is possible that his body is metabolising some of his testosterone in the fat (?)
> 
> - going to the gym, getting fitter and losing weight will increase his testosterone and will help the situation
> 
> - the op he will perform is mTESE where he will open the testicle and study it with a powerful microscope and look for the fuller tubules to remove for embryologist. Now I thought waiting 15 mins for the TESE procedure was hell, but this will be an hour and a half with a general anasthetic
> 
> - ICSI will cost about £7000 and Terry's side of things will be £3000 - £500
> 
> - he would advise a donor back up, but doesn't insist on it
> 
> - he will want a SA doing and they will freeze anything they find - even if they only find one in SA, he definitely wouldn't feel any need for a donor back up
> 
> - could be NHS funded at Hammersmith, but it couldn't be a fresh, co-ordinated cycle there
> 
> - only place we can do a fresh co-ordinated cycle with him is at The Lister and would have to be privately funded
> 
> - Terry's prolactin levels are normal (so no hyperprolactinaemia)
> 
> - no need to do kidney tests as he's happy the cause has been identified so not looking for another cause
> 
> - not worried about lowering testosterone levels for Terry's future health by doing op as he will only do one side - the 3 sperm were all previously found in the one side, so he says he knows there are in there. He says it's highly likely there are some in the other side too, but will go for the definite side
> 
> So there you go lol and when asked "We know you can never be 100% with something like this, but how sure do you feel that you will find some?" His reply .... "Can't you tell by my reactions to your questions that I'm very happy about where we're at?"
> 
> "So you think you will find some?"
> 
> "Oh yes!"
> 
> So the plan now ...
> 
> Blood tests from GP - FSH, LH, Testosterone, SHBG (?), LFT, Thyroid Function Tests, Prolactin, Oestadiol
> 
> And then when we have those results, it's back down to Windsor for a follow up appt and plan of action
> 
> If you made it to the end of this ... I'm impressed! xx


----------



## waitingginger

wow deb that all sounds great!! he really knows what he is doing! which must feel great for both of you! x


----------



## april4jdg

Hey there! Just checking in... We have decided to use a sperm donor from European Sperm Bank here in the US- they have a branch in Seattle... They have to do a few blood tests on me in the next couple of weeks to prepare for the d-iui...


----------



## Flake-y

april4jdg said:


> Hey there! Just checking in... We have decided to use a sperm donor from European Sperm Bank here in the US- they have a branch in Seattle... They have to do a few blood tests on me in the next couple of weeks to prepare for the d-iui...

That's good April, we used the European Sperm Bank too.


----------



## april4jdg

Did you have strictly MFI? We have been pleased with all the contact we have had with them so far. The free photomatching, etc. I hope you get your BFP!


----------



## Flake-y

april4jdg said:


> Did you have strictly MFI? We have been pleased with all the contact we have had with them so far. The free photomatching, etc. I hope you get your BFP!

Yep, DH has sertoli cell only symdrome. I have mild pcos, but it's not really a problem, just irregular periods.

All the stuff from the ESB is great, I love the baby photo you get to see! Although some of them look a bit dubious!!!:haha:


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi ladies, me again, the one with the DH who has had 6 months of infection following his failed SSR!

Dh is doing better, now off the pain killers, his ball has shrunk and is now nearly twice the size of normal, still on antibiotics until Thursday, and back to see the specialist on Friday morning. We hope we will get sent away, I don't know why they would still want to operate, the only worry is that they say that the ball is dead.

We are wondering if this has all kick-started his other ball into working, he has got a lot hairier and his hair is darker which is strange, but we have been told this is virtually impossible - but you still have to hope and wonder as the end of the month comes closer! I don't think you ever stop trying naturally!

We are planning to start the donor venture in May-June this year. We just want a break and a bit of happiness before the next load of upset and I am still struggling to come to terms with not having my husbands baby, does any one else have this problem. I really wanted to look at our baby and see his features, his personality etc. and I know it will be his baby, but it's not the same - I guess after 11 years together and that was what you always wanted since you were dating - its hard to adjust. 

We are getting preasure as well from some of our family - they can't understand why we want to wait and think we should just get on with it - I don't think they realise how hard it is do they! So this weekend I had to harshly explain the percentages of success and that at the end of it we could end up with dealing with never having a baby, and how upsetting and hard work each go will be - its easy for them - they have two beatiful little girls, both easily conceived - so they have no idea how hard it is, how stressfull and upsetting it will be for us and how horrible that two week wait will be!

I am glad to see we have had some good news while I have been away and that some are getting the BFP, however it is also sad to see that some of you have not suceeded and are waiting for the next go. Oh don't we all set ourselves up for a challange! Sometimes I wonder if we are all just mad or desperate - or both!!!

Anyway enough of me doing my bi-monthly ramble! Keep the hope up ladies, best wishes and good luck to you all!

P.s Flake-y - how are you doing - nervous and impatient I bet?

XXX


----------



## Deb111

Hi Angela

It's so nice to finally hear that hubby is on the mend :thumbup:

I can totally understand the 'scared to start the next step' feeling. We've all been through so much and the thought of setting yourself up for more disappointment is tough.

With regards to the extra hairiness etc, we have been told that when hubby has the one side operated on, the other side will help to compensate in making a bit more testosterone. If he's getting hairier, it sounds like maybe that's what's happening and who knows what effect that may have?

xx


----------



## MariaF

WOW, Deb. Im speachless.

It sounds like you've accomplished so, so much! It must be worth something and finally result in a BFP and a healthy bouncing baby :hugs:

So which route will you follow? NHS or private? the private one sounds very expensive.....But I guess there won't be much of a wait?

Oh and SHBG is Sex hormone binding globulin. I think it's also something to do with testosterone and how it binds to something. I had to have it done for my PCOS.

You've come so far, I really believe you are so very close!!!! :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Thanks hun :flower:

I don't know much about the SHBG test, but from what I have read, it seems crazy that the NHS didn't do it when Terry's testosterone is so low - we've always felt theres a hormone connection with both his thyroid and testosterone being low.

I'm pretty sure we will go down the private route - yes it's expensive, but plenty of people spend £10K on a car and think nothing of it :shrug: It wont be easy, but we can cut back and save a chunk of it and my parents have said they will lend us whatever else we need.

I just feel that if we try and cut corners and I don't get pregnant; we will always wonder "what if .....?" Although my side of things may well have to happen more than once, Terry will only be having this procedure once so we want to get it right and use what they find fresh

xx


----------



## MariaF

I agree Deb. They can freeze emryos for several tries in the future so it's best to have the first procedure done in the best possible way.

And I do believe going privately does make a difference - and not only from the shorter waiting list point of view. They do have better drugs, etc. And although it may be wrong, but I do genuinely believe they take more interest/care in you!

My parents have also helped with the IUI and if need be will help with the IVF and we are forever grateful.

The very best of luck to you :hugs:


----------



## waitingginger

Jo! i am going to post on here because you have so many on your journal and it would be good for those of us who have been down!!!

*Massive Massive Congratulations on your BFP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

so happy for you!! you really deserve it!!
xxxx


----------



## Flake-y

waitingginger said:


> Jo! i am going to post on here because you have so many on your journal and it would be good for those of us who have been down!!!
> 
> *Massive Massive Congratulations on your BFP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> so happy for you!! you really deserve it!!
> xxxx

Thank you! We are so over the moon!!!:cloud9::cloud9::cloud9:


----------



## Deb111

Love the new avatar Jo! Off to update the front page :happydance: xx


----------



## Flake-y

Deb111 said:


> Love the new avatar Jo! Off to update the front page :happydance: xx

Yay!:happydance:


----------



## loobylou_01

Yay! had just come on to see if you'd updated the front page! great minds and all that! and also just realised Jo that our scans will have been exactly 6 months apart - our 1st scan was 23rd Sept! xxx


----------



## Deb111

We need another bump pic Linzie! and when's your due date? :happydance:


----------



## loobylou_01

Deb111 said:


> We need another bump pic Linzie! and when's your due date? :happydance:

:baby: due n28th April Deb! And will try get a pic on this weekend, will get posing in the mirror!! Seen midwife today, baby behaving so far and is in the right position, head down!


----------



## Deb111

loobylou_01 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> We need another bump pic Linzie! and when's your due date? :happydance:
> 
> :baby: due n28th April Deb! And will try get a pic on this weekend, will get posing in the mirror!! Seen midwife today, baby behaving so far and is in the right position, head down!Click to expand...

Yay! :happydance: Will update front page with your due date too!


----------



## Flake-y

loobylou_01 said:


> Yay! had just come on to see if you'd updated the front page! great minds and all that! and also just realised Jo that our scans will have been exactly 6 months apart - our 1st scan was 23rd Sept! xxx

Cool!!! Can't believe you're due in about 2 months; how exciting!!!!!:happydance:


----------



## waitingginger

wow Jo look at all your lovely lines :happydance:


----------



## Flake-y

waitingginger said:


> wow Jo look at all your lovely lines :happydance:

Thanks! The first one looks practically non-existant now, & I thought it was quite clear when I did it! Ha ha!!!


----------



## Dancergirl

Flake-y.... CONGRATS!!!! I am so excited for you and gives hope to those of us TTC using donor sperm. 

We have been doing injections daily this last week in order to increase the quality of my cycle. We did an IUI this morning and are really hoping that it works for us this month. THis is our first time trying IUI with injections rather than with clomid. One more chance with injections if this doesn't work and then our only opinion is IVF. Which we can't afford right now... so REALLY, REALLY praying this works for us. 

At the dr. office this last Wednesday, I found myself surround by 3 women from my local church that were all pregnant. I left crying our of envy. I just keep waiting for it to be my turn to be the glowing, happy pregnant woman. It is hard because my crying makes my husband feel bad because him having no sperm is what is making it so we can't seem to get pregnant. I feel bad crying, but I can't help it. I cry all the time.

This is going to be a long 2-week wait. I don't want to get my hopes up that it worked, but at the same time, I don't want to think that it didn't work for us. 

I know my thoughts are all scrambled, but that is exactly how I feel. All scrambled up inside.


----------



## Deb111

Hi Dancer

Sorry you're going through such a difficult time. I think we all know that feeling of wanting to have a good cry but not wanting to make our hubby's feel bad. Is there anyone you can talk to and have a good cry on away from your hubby?

I am praying that this works for you - I think Flake-y has started off a run of :bfp:'s :thumbup:


----------



## Flake-y

Dancergirl; lots of luck for this IUI, praying this will be the lucky cycle for you! No reason why not!!!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Flakey - They are lovely lines! You have inspired us all :dance:

Wishing you a happy and healthy 9 months and please keep in touch with us :hugs: 

Dancer Girl - I know exactly how you feel. I have been really miserable lately - I just can't seem to help it. Then DH asks whats wrong and I tell him I'm fed up with it all, but that makes him feel bad. But the truth is I am feeling sad for us both, the whole situation just seems so unfair and I feel like there is a big brick wall stopping me from getting where I need to be. I think we all understand how you feel and azoospermia is a terrible thing to try to deal with. Wishing you all the best with this cycle and sending you loads of 

:dust::dust::dust::dust:


----------



## Deb111

Some of you may have seen this - someone posted it in LTTTC and I posted it in my journal, but thought it was worth posting here too.

Very touching, but get your tissues to hand. It helped me to realise that there are other people who are feeling EXACTLY what I am

https://www.tearsandhope.com/emptyarms_video.html


----------



## Pink Lolly

Deb111 said:


> Some of you may have seen this - someone posted it in LTTTC and I posted it in my journal, but thought it was worth posting here too.
> 
> Very touching, but get your tissues to hand. It helped me to realise that there are other people who are feeling EXACTLY what I am
> 
> https://www.tearsandhope.com/emptyarms_video.html

Wow that video sums up exactly how it feels - and I think nobody really understands until they have been or are going through it. Thanks for posting Deb xx


----------



## loobylou_01

Dancer and Pink Lolly, sorry that you're both feeling so down. It is a crap situation that were all in but at least we all understand that despairing feeling that we all get. Wishing u lots of luck for this iui cycle dancergirl, hope jo has started the ball rolling with the bfps.

take care all xxx


----------



## HopeWhispers

Flake-y said:


> waitingginger said:
> 
> 
> Jo! i am going to post on here because you have so many on your journal and it would be good for those of us who have been down!!!
> 
> *Massive Massive Congratulations on your BFP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> so happy for you!! you really deserve it!!
> xxxx
> 
> Thank you! We are so over the moon!!!:cloud9::cloud9::cloud9:Click to expand...

Jo, I just logged on to see what everyone was up to and the first thing I saw was your new photo - amazing news, so happy to read about it! I definitely empathise with the ladies on here who find it so hard when everyone around you seems to be getting pregnant, and all of the envy and sadness it brings, but reading your news has genuinely cheered me up today. Congratulations!


----------



## HopeWhispers

Step Mummy said:


> Hi ladies, me again, the one with the DH who has had 6 months of infection following his failed SSR!
> 
> Dh is doing better, now off the pain killers, his ball has shrunk and is now nearly twice the size of normal, still on antibiotics until Thursday, and back to see the specialist on Friday morning. We hope we will get sent away, I don't know why they would still want to operate, the only worry is that they say that the ball is dead.
> 
> We are wondering if this has all kick-started his other ball into working, he has got a lot hairier and his hair is darker which is strange, but we have been told this is virtually impossible - but you still have to hope and wonder as the end of the month comes closer! I don't think you ever stop trying naturally!
> 
> We are planning to start the donor venture in May-June this year. We just want a break and a bit of happiness before the next load of upset and I am still struggling to come to terms with not having my husbands baby, does any one else have this problem. I really wanted to look at our baby and see his features, his personality etc. and I know it will be his baby, but it's not the same - I guess after 11 years together and that was what you always wanted since you were dating - its hard to adjust.
> 
> We are getting preasure as well from some of our family - they can't understand why we want to wait and think we should just get on with it - I don't think they realise how hard it is do they! So this weekend I had to harshly explain the percentages of success and that at the end of it we could end up with dealing with never having a baby, and how upsetting and hard work each go will be - its easy for them - they have two beatiful little girls, both easily conceived - so they have no idea how hard it is, how stressfull and upsetting it will be for us and how horrible that two week wait will be!
> 
> I am glad to see we have had some good news while I have been away and that some are getting the BFP, however it is also sad to see that some of you have not suceeded and are waiting for the next go. Oh don't we all set ourselves up for a challange! Sometimes I wonder if we are all just mad or desperate - or both!!!
> 
> Anyway enough of me doing my bi-monthly ramble! Keep the hope up ladies, best wishes and good luck to you all!
> 
> P.s Flake-y - how are you doing - nervous and impatient I bet?
> 
> XXX

Hi Angela,

Just wanted to reply to this post - it made me shed a little tear because I too struggle to come to terms with not being able to have OH's biological baby. I think there's a strong primeval instinct that kicks in when you're choosing your spouse/partner, and you are definitely attracted to someone because you recognise parts of them that you want to pass onto your children. I don't really know what to do about it, because it will never get better. It will never be any less sad. 

I know it's not the same, but I try to console myself with thinking about the ways that our children will be like him because he is their dad and he raises them. For example, my other half is really musical, and it gives me some peace to think of him teaching them to play the piano, or to read music. When I was little my dad left the family home for a while because of work. We saw him at weekends but that was all. When he found work closer to home and could move back home full time, my little brother (who at that point was about 12 or 13) immediately started mimicking my dad's mannerisms, sayings, intonations, attitudes etc. He became a proper mini-me just because he was spending so much time with his dad for the first time in a long time. So I think you will see your husband's personality traits in your children, even if they are not biologically his, because children learn how to live and how to express themselves from their parents.

I can empathise re the family members too, it's tough when everyone has an opinion and thinks they can tell you how to handle the situation. It puts a lot of expectation on your shoulders too. On top of my own disappointment and sorrow, and for my OH and the things he has to deal with, I also feel guilty sometimes that I won't be able to give my parents grandchildren. And lets not even get started on his parents!!

Glad to hear your hubby is getting better. Keep us updated.

Hope xx


----------



## HopeWhispers

Deb111 said:


> Hhhmmm I think I know where I may have seen it now you mention it ... but I don't seem to be able to find ANYTHING on google! Strange ... :coffee:

Hi Deb,

A counsellor I saw for a bit last year mentioned this to me. I've also looked but found absoutely nothing, and because we aren't TTC we don't have contact with any doctors to ask. Who knows..........


----------



## MissAma

Huge congrats Flakey!!!

As for the video... I saw this ages ago when we were doing IVF and cried and cried.... I'm sad to say I saw it again now and I still cried. I wish I could say that once your arms are not empty anymore -which is a stage each and every one of you here will reach!- it doesn't hurt anymore but it does. Having been there, where a baby is not the result of a steamy shag on Valentine's Day surrounded by rose petals and candles but a cold series of medical procedures surrounded by implacable faces of strangers and only half sympathetic faces of friends, having suffered through it marks us for life.


----------



## loobylou_01

Latest bump pic as requested by Jo & Deb! 32 +1 weeks.
 



Attached Files:







IMG_7204.jpg
File size: 21.3 KB
Views: 10


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## Flake-y

loobylou_01 said:


> Latest bump pic as requested by Jo & Deb! 32 +1 weeks.

Wow!!!:happydance:


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## Deb111

Gorgeous bump!! :dance:


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## april4jdg

hey there! Looks like lots of new faces on here!!!
I am supposed to start AF next week, and then do a cycle 3 day monitoring, and start clomid on days 5-9 and a trigger of HCG when I test positive for my OPK...then we will be doing the d-iui... 
Thanks for the video! Made me cry!


----------



## Flake-y

april4jdg said:


> hey there! Looks like lots of new faces on here!!!
> I am supposed to start AF next week, and then do a cycle 3 day monitoring, and start clomid on days 5-9 and a trigger of HCG when I test positive for my OPK...then we will be doing the d-iui...
> Thanks for the video! Made me cry!

Good luck!!!!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Hello Everyone

I thought I would just post a quick update for you all as we had another hospital appointment on Tuesday....

All in all it went really well. The consultant went through all of DHs results and said his bloods all came back as normal. I have a summary here and it also says - 'Normal Karyotype & cytogenetics'. 

He examined DH and said the right testicle is damaged (this is the side that was undescended as a child) :nope: but the left side looked normal :thumbup:

The consultant is hopeful that they will be able to extract some sperm from the left side going by DHs results and has recommedned some vitmains to take meanwhile - although there is of course still the chance they won't find any. Anyway he said once we have gone through all of the paperwork etc, he recommends DH has a trial PESA to find out for sure. If this is successful, we will then move to ICSI and the PESA will be co-ordinated with my EC and fresh sperm used. 

He confirmed that our first cycle will be fully funded by the NHS (Including the PESA). We asked about timescale and he said we are looking at completing the first go in about 4 months which is fab as I was sure we would have a really long wait! :happydance:

If it isn't successful, then we will persue the donor route. Sorry for the essay - it didnt seem much in my head but when I typed it realised how much there is!! 

Anyway hope you are all OK - still so happy for you Flakey and love the bump pic Linz - you two are an inspiration to us all!

Good Luck to you April - have everything crossed for you :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

That all sounds very positive! :thumbup:

Make sure you speak to them about freezing anything they find when they do the trial PESA, just as a back up


----------



## Pink Lolly

Deb111 said:


> That all sounds very positive! :thumbup:
> 
> Make sure you speak to them about freezing anything they find when they do the trial PESA, just as a back up


Thanks Deb - I wouldn't have thought to ask that! How are things with you? x


----------



## Deb111

So so thanks. We've finally found a private urologist who is as certain as he can be that he can help Terry (seeing as the NHS managed to find a very small number). He will do microTESE. Currently waiting for our GP to do the blood tests that this urologist wants. He reckons the whole ICSI cycle plus Terry's microTESE will cost £10,000 - £11,000 and just as we felt we finally had some hope; Terry has been made redundant! :nope:

My parents have said they will help out, but we'd rather not have to rely on them. If he could only get another job, we've got a nice chunk of redundancy money to put towards the ICSI!


----------



## Pink Lolly

:bfp:


Deb111 said:


> So so thanks. We've finally found a private urologist who is as certain as he can be that he can help Terry (seeing as the NHS managed to find a very small number). He will do microTESE. Currently waiting for our GP to do the blood tests that this urologist wants. He reckons the whole ICSI cycle plus Terry's microTESE will cost £10,000 - £11,000 and just as we felt we finally had some hope; Terry has been made redundant! :nope:
> 
> My parents have said they will help out, but we'd rather not have to rely on them. If he could only get another job, we've got a nice chunk of redundancy money to put towards the ICSI!

Oh Deb - fingers crossed he gets another job and then you can use that redudancy money for ICSI! I think you very much deserve some good luck and it's about time things started to look up for you - after all 2011 is going to be the year of the :bfp: for us all! xx


----------



## Flake-y

Great news pinklolly, and only 4 months to wait; that's fantastic!!!


----------



## Dancergirl

HI ALL.... my heart is so full today!! I took a test and got a *BFP*!!!! I am so overwhelmed with excitement, yet somehow it still creeps in my mind that something negative could still happen. I know I don't get on this site very often, but I am so grateful for the love and support of all you women. It is nice to chat with others about their experiences dealing with infertility.


----------



## waitingginger

Ah congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant belive another BFP feels like we are on a roll!!! brilliant news well done!!
xxxx


----------



## Deb111

CONGRATS Dancergirl :happydance::dance::headspin:

H & H 9 months to you xx


----------



## Flake-y

Dancergirl said:


> HI ALL.... my heart is so full today!! I took a test and got a *BFP*!!!! I am so overwhelmed with excitement, yet somehow it still creeps in my mind that something negative could still happen. I know I don't get on this site very often, but I am so grateful for the love and support of all you women. It is nice to chat with others about their experiences dealing with infertility.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

Brilliant news, so happy for you!!!


----------



## loobylou_01

Congratulations Dancer! That's fantastic news, really happy for you :) xxx


----------



## loobylou_01

Pink Lol - great news about your OPA! That sounds really positive, and so happy that you hopefully won't have too long to wait. Definitely the year for you and for Deb too.

Not meaning to ask the unthinkable, but what will you do if no sperm is found?


I need to put another picture up, bump has exploded this week, feel like a whale!! xxx


----------



## Flake-y

Oh my gosh Linzie, 43 days to go? Wow wow wow!!!!


----------



## loobylou_01

Flake-y said:


> Oh my gosh Linzie, 43 days to go? Wow wow wow!!!!

i know!! i finish work a week tomorrow too which is very exciting! had to go up into my maternity tunics for work this week and oh my god, what a sight!! the nhs don't provide a very flattering uniform, esp if you're pregnant!!

Definitely on the count down now! Still doesn't seem real though!


----------



## Flake-y

Highly exciting! You'll be glad to finish work then, esp with the unflattering outfits!


----------



## waitingginger

ok so had our appt with the endocronologist today, and he has said keep trying naturally for atleast another 6 months whilst he monitors sperm and does blood tests at the same time!! he reckons because its hormonal there is no reason why it might not right itself and had now got OHs hope up we will get pregnant in the next couple of months! despite is being 2.5 years with nothing!! o well if this is what it takes to get the help then i will wait another 6 months he even said because your young Amy its not so much of a rush! 

so we have to go back and see him in 6 months and had blood test and SA today and than another SA and bloods in 3 months and then again just before our appt!! i have no doubt they will say the same again 0 sperm, 0 FSH, 0LH but i will live in hope! i just feel like he has condemended us to trying naturally going back to hoping every month that its going to happen when its not and i know how hard it is month and after month not getting pregant it was actually easier once we found out the reason! 

so thats is going to take us until sept!! OH was like why arent you happy its really good news we will prob be able to get pregant naturally! but i just dont understand how they can say that after 2.5 years of nothing!

and i know we are young so its good they dont have to rush the treatment and can find out the real reason for the azzospermia and rule out everything but i was really hoping he would say we can kickstart your hormones here is a prescription for some injections do this, do that etc!

am i being unreasonable??!! just feel he has built up OHs hope that something is going to sunddenly change! maybe its just me being negative, and i dont want to be the person to be all down!!


----------



## Deb111

Sorry your appt didn't go quite as well as you hoped hun :hugs: It really is all one hell of a minefield


----------



## Flake-y

Amy, I must admit I'm surprised you were told to keep trying for 6 months, have you already been given another appointment to go back?

I would assume if the SAs haven't changed in 6 months then they will have to do something more productive to help you get pregnant. I hope so anyway, you have been waiting a long time!


----------



## loobylou_01

Sorry your appointment didn't have the outcome you were hoping for, i can understand why you're feeling down.

However i hope he's right and you get a surprise natural bfp xxx


----------



## waitingginger

Yep got an appointment in sept! i think its more the bloods they want to monitor as he testosteron was in the low/normal range so need to see if thats stable or if it goes lower or stays in the normal range. I am assuming it makes a difference to what treatment you get whether they mix testosteron treatment in or just have the HCG injections! i am assuming!

but you know it really felt like he was saying your only 26 and 27 go away and keep trying you never know whats going to happen! and that just feels completely unfair! maybe i am not being forceful enough! but maybe i am just readin too much into it and they just want to get the treatment right!


----------



## Deb111

We were told that although hubby's testosterone levels are low, they cannot give testosterone replacement therapy as this would convince his body that his levels are normal which means that his body would stop producing the little amount it is and then there would definitely be no sperm whatsoever


----------



## Pink Lolly

Dancergirl said:


> HI ALL.... my heart is so full today!! I took a test and got a *BFP*!!!! I am so overwhelmed with excitement, yet somehow it still creeps in my mind that something negative could still happen. I know I don't get on this site very often, but I am so grateful for the love and support of all you women. It is nice to chat with others about their experiences dealing with infertility.

Congratulations Dancer!! Very very happy for you!! Woohooo! xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

Hi Girls!

Sorry it has been a while again - I always read all your posts on my phone but only ever update when on the laptop which is why sometimes it takes me ages to post replies!

Looby - def need another bump pic please! Finishing work....woohoo!! That is so exciting! Do you feel like it's real or does it feel like a dream?? I should imagine it is still hard to believe! Just think soon you will have your :baby: I wonder if it will be Team Pink or Team Blue!

As for me and DH, we have already prepared ourselves that they may not find sperm and are 100% certain that we will use a donor if this happens (although I am a little worried that DH has got his hope up a bit...) The consultant did mention that we could go straight to IVF with donor sperm as back up, but he suggested the trial PESA instead as there is a massive shortage of DS in our area. I guess if we need it we may have to import it in (but we didnt go into that in any detail - cross that bridge when we come to it I suppose!)

Ginger - so sorry you were disappointed at your appt hun....I don't think you are being unreasonable at all because this whole LTTTC thing is so stressful and such a rollercoaster. It also seems to take over your whole life, and you can't think of anything else can you. If you have an appt in Sept then it will be here before you know it....until then plan lots of things to make the time go quickly and maybe a summer holiday?? Then hopefully in Sept they will start the ball rolling :hugs: Or have you thought about payng privately for a second opinion if it's getting you down - I think I would be tempted to 


Hope everyone else is good xxx


----------



## waitingginger

thanks ladies, it really is a minefield! i just dont know what to do! tempted to pay privately but it would have to come out of our wedding fund at the moment so we going to wait until after the wedding to go private if we thought we needed to!
I think i am just going to have to put my trust in the doctors that they know what they are doing and hopefully in sept they will start some sort of treatment!
It feels like i am not getting the full story like there is something going on or things that have been missed that should of been done already you know what i mean? the doctor we saw on thursday was really shocked that we found out in April 2010 and have only just saw him! maybe they just cant figure it out! because i cant get any of the conditions that i read about to fit OH, other than this paturity gland thing shutting down his hormone systems form a head injury he had at 13 when he was in a coma!
but who knows! its like when we go into the appointments we become mute and than afterwards have a million questions!

One thing he did say was dont take any vitamins or natural supplements at all when your hormone systems are delicate they can knock them even more off!! so all vitamins in the bin!!

Hope your all having a good weekend! back to cleaning my cupboards for me


----------



## waitingginger

I forgot to say apparently the last SA OH did in Jan showed a few live sperm!
although doc said 'may as well still be 0 as too few to really matter' :wacko:


----------



## Pink Lolly

Amy I know what you mean about becoming mute in appointments! Beforehand I am always ranting on to DH realing off what I'm gonna say and then when I actually get in there with the consultant all I can manage is 'OK', 'Right', 'Hmmm' etc!! I must look like a rabbit caught in the headlights!

At least you have your wedding to look forward to, which will help take your mind off of things :wedding:


----------



## bodaciousajac

Hi ladies :) I've been reading this forum for awhile, but had yet posted. My wonderful husband and I are high school sweethearts, and recently wed last year, we had ntnp for about six years, and really started "focusing" last year- I knew something might be up, so with the start of 2011, I made an apt to see a fs. Wow, how our world changed, my husband was diagnosed with an azf-a micro deletion. After seeing a urologist, the chances of them finding sperm through a tese, was sooo rare ( in fact most research I've read with this deletion, none has been found), so we decided to try Iui with donor sperm... However, I was diagnosed with reduced ovarian reserve...so I'm currentlyntaking DHEA, along with acupuncture to hopefully increase my odds once we start our Iui cycles. ( we have to wait for at least three months, so looks like the end of may, we would hopefully start! Have any of you used DHEA and had good results? What about Iui with DS?


----------



## Deb111

bodaciousajac said:


> Hi ladies :) I've been reading this forum for awhile, but had yet posted. My wonderful husband and I are high school sweethearts, and recently wed last year, we had ntnp for about six years, and really started "focusing" last year- I knew something might be up, so with the start of 2011, I made an apt to see a fs. Wow, how our world changed, my husband was diagnosed with an azf-a micro deletion. After seeing a urologist, the chances of them finding sperm through a tese, was sooo rare ( in fact most research I've read with this deletion, none has been found), so we decided to try Iui with donor sperm... However, I was diagnosed with reduced ovarian reserve...so I'm currentlyntaking DHEA, along with acupuncture to hopefully increase my odds once we start our Iui cycles. ( we have to wait for at least three months, so looks like the end of may, we would hopefully start! Have any of you used DHEA and had good results? What about Iui with DS?

Welcome to the group hun. So sorry you're going through this :hugs: I'm afraid I can't answer any of your specific questions but look forward to following your journey xx


----------



## april4jdg

so, I have my CD 10 bloodwork, u/s, and see if I have responded to the clomid- from the clomid challenge test, and a fasting lab to be done -all to do tomorrow at 7:15 am!!! Then I just will start testing for my lh surge on CD 12, then call, and I guess I go there and the give me my trigger shot of hcg, and then we will do the d-iui , I guess the next day...not really sure! But I will be getting the iui done befreo the end of the month...
I really feel like I have responded to the Clomid...
I swear I can feel it working...I have felt twinges in my ovary areas... On CD when I went in for the bloodwork and u/s the nurse said I have 7 follies on one side an 3 on the other... and that was without Clomid- so hopefully I will have responded well with the Clomid... I took 100 mg CD 5-9 ( today is my last day of it)...
I am really to get thing done!!! : )


----------



## Flake-y

bodaciousajac said:


> Hi ladies :) I've been reading this forum for awhile, but had yet posted. My wonderful husband and I are high school sweethearts, and recently wed last year, we had ntnp for about six years, and really started "focusing" last year- I knew something might be up, so with the start of 2011, I made an apt to see a fs. Wow, how our world changed, my husband was diagnosed with an azf-a micro deletion. After seeing a urologist, the chances of them finding sperm through a tese, was sooo rare ( in fact most research I've read with this deletion, none has been found), so we decided to try Iui with donor sperm... However, I was diagnosed with reduced ovarian reserve...so I'm currentlyntaking DHEA, along with acupuncture to hopefully increase my odds once we start our Iui cycles. ( we have to wait for at least three months, so looks like the end of may, we would hopefully start! Have any of you used DHEA and had good results? What about Iui with DS?

Hi there, welcome to the group!

I have had IUI with donor sperm, we ended up using IVF to actually get pregnant though. Although that was just in our case, there are plenty of success stories with IUI & DS, some on this thread!!!

Good luck!!!


----------



## Step Mummy

HopeWhispers said:


> Step Mummy said:
> 
> 
> Hi ladies, me again, the one with the DH who has had 6 months of infection following his failed SSR!
> 
> Hi Angela,
> 
> Just wanted to reply to this post - it made me shed a little tear because I too struggle to come to terms with not being able to have OH's biological baby. I think there's a strong primeval instinct that kicks in when you're choosing your spouse/partner, and you are definitely attracted to someone because you recognise parts of them that you want to pass onto your children. I don't really know what to do about it, because it will never get better. It will never be any less sad.
> 
> I know it's not the same, but I try to console myself with thinking about the ways that our children will be like him because he is their dad and he raises them. For example, my other half is really musical, and it gives me some peace to think of him teaching them to play the piano, or to read music. When I was little my dad left the family home for a while because of work. We saw him at weekends but that was all. When he found work closer to home and could move back home full time, my little brother (who at that point was about 12 or 13) immediately started mimicking my dad's mannerisms, sayings, intonations, attitudes etc. He became a proper mini-me just because he was spending so much time with his dad for the first time in a long time. So I think you will see your husband's personality traits in your children, even if they are not biologically his, because children learn how to live and how to express themselves from their parents.
> 
> I can empathise re the family members too, it's tough when everyone has an opinion and thinks they can tell you how to handle the situation. It puts a lot of expectation on your shoulders too. On top of my own disappointment and sorrow, and for my OH and the things he has to deal with, I also feel guilty sometimes that I won't be able to give my parents grandchildren. And lets not even get started on his parents!!
> 
> Glad to hear your hubby is getting better. Keep us updated.
> 
> Hope xx
> 
> Hi Hope
> 
> thanks for your lovely words, it's nice to know I am not alone, because sometimes I do think I should just get on with it, but I can't. And we've agreed now that I need to deal with it before we go any further, I would not want to get in the situation where I am feeling depressed after the birth because I have not dealt with it before, although I am sure as soon as I get a BFP it will all go out of the window and I won't care - I will just be so excited.
> 
> I am not one to get emotional very often, and I don't tend to cry in front of anyone, even my DH, but I did have a long chat with one of my sister in laws - she understands a bit more because she got right up to IVF then got a BFP, and then I had a breakdown with my DH, so he knows more about how I feel now which is good - I needed that!
> 
> It's weird I don't know what it is thats stopping my, but I am uncomfortable with the whole having that "stuff" put in me, even though its cleaned etc. I also have the problem with looking at the baby and not seeing Andrew and wondering "where did he get those eyes?" etc. Also we went to my DH's family at the weekend and they are all talking about family history and likenesses and personality traits that have followed through - we won't have that and that is what is really making me sad. DH already has a son, and I am so pleased that he has otherwise that would be so much worse - I feel for all of those DH's that have never had a kid - but as much as I love my step son (he is now19) that just makes me want DH's baby more, because his son is so like him and I love seeing the similar personalities - and I want that!
> Are you in the same boat too Hope - you mention that you are not going to be able to give your parents grand children - are you waiting for IUI or do you have to do another route?
> 
> Best wishes and lots of luck for when you do start!
> XXXClick to expand...


----------



## mumanddad

Hello ladies can i please join you all?

Bit about me n oh...

Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..

We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..

Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..

We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?

We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment

thanks for reading x


----------



## Deb111

Step Mummy said:


> It's weird I don't know what it is thats stopping my, but I am uncomfortable with the whole having that "stuff" put in me, even though its cleaned etc. I also have the problem with looking at the baby and not seeing Andrew and wondering "where did he get those eyes?" etc.

I struggle with all these feelings and thought too :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

mumanddad said:


> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x

Welcome Hayleigh

So sorry you're going through this and so sorry about the loss of your precious boy.

I don't have experience of SA's being ok and then suddenly not, but I do have experience of hospitals losing stuff. I really hope it's just a bad test for you or that you can get some answers. Are you waiting for another SA? xx


----------



## Flake-y

Hi Hayleigh, glad you have found us here...

So sorry to hear of your loss.

I would assume they'll do a 2nd sample for your OH, just in case there was a mix up or something. Esp if there has been sperm in previous tests, it's best to double check.

There is another girl on the thread whose OH has a child already, but then was diagnosed with a zero sperm count, not sure of the reasons though.

Hope this was just a one off for your OH, & another test shows better reaults. Good luck...


----------



## mumanddad

Thankyou the fs did say a mans testicals can just stop working... 

He has another two tests... He has a high ph level to which we are trying to get downx


----------



## wifeyw

mumanddad said:


> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x

Hey Hayleigh, 

Welcome... I'm so so sorry for your loss xx i was reading about your OH and zero sperm my DH had a SA done which came back zero sperm and he done another on Tuesday so we are awaiting the results so nerve wrecking he hasn't had a previous child though so i wouldn't say we are the same situation but keep us posted x What does your BMI have to be for IVF??

Just a question for everyone...Does anyone who has been in similar situation know what happens after the 2nd SA? will they do more bloods then refer us to FS? or refer us first then do more test. My DH asked the DR and he just said we will cross that bridge wen it comes to it.. not helpful at all:growlmad: so nervous and anxious! Just want to get the ball rolling to have our own little :baby:

xxx:hugs:


----------



## loobylou_01

wifeyw said:


> mumanddad said:
> 
> 
> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x
> 
> Hey Hayleigh,
> 
> Welcome... I'm so so sorry for your loss xx i was reading about your OH and zero sperm my DH had a SA done which came back zero sperm and he done another on Tuesday so we are awaiting the results so nerve wrecking he hasn't had a previous child though so i wouldn't say we are the same situation but keep us posted x What does your BMI have to be for IVF??
> 
> Just a question for everyone...Does anyone who has been in similar situation know what happens after the 2nd SA? will they do more bloods then refer us to FS? or refer us first then do more test. My DH asked the DR and he just said we will cross that bridge wen it comes to it.. not helpful at all:growlmad: so nervous and anxious! Just want to get the ball rolling to have our own little :baby:
> 
> xxx:hugs:Click to expand...

Our GP referred us to a urologist and to the fertility clinic at hte same time, then we saw urologist who did a couple of blood tests and repaired a variocele, then we were straight in with the fertility clinic who did a baseline scan on me which was fine and basically booked us for ivf straight away as we met all nhs criteria so funding was no problem. We first saw them in march last year, our ivf started in july and we are 5 weeks off having our much waited and longed for baby!

Wishing you all the best xxx


----------



## wifeyw

loobylou_01 said:


> wifeyw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mumanddad said:
> 
> 
> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x
> 
> Hey Hayleigh,
> 
> Welcome... I'm so so sorry for your loss xx i was reading about your OH and zero sperm my DH had a SA done which came back zero sperm and he done another on Tuesday so we are awaiting the results so nerve wrecking he hasn't had a previous child though so i wouldn't say we are the same situation but keep us posted x What does your BMI have to be for IVF??
> 
> Just a question for everyone...Does anyone who has been in similar situation know what happens after the 2nd SA? will they do more bloods then refer us to FS? or refer us first then do more test. My DH asked the DR and he just said we will cross that bridge wen it comes to it.. not helpful at all:growlmad: so nervous and anxious! Just want to get the ball rolling to have our own little :baby:
> 
> xxx:hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> Our GP referred us to a urologist and to the fertility clinic at hte same time, then we saw urologist who did a couple of blood tests and repaired a variocele, then we were straight in with the fertility clinic who did a baseline scan on me which was fine and basically booked us for ivf straight away as we met all nhs criteria so funding was no problem. We first saw them in march last year, our ivf started in july and we are 5 weeks off having our much waited and longed for baby!
> 
> Wishing you all the best xxxClick to expand...

That sounds amazing thank u so much for letting me know.. hopefully you will get that BFP soon then eh!!:thumbup: DO u mind if i ask what ur BMI is as I've heard it has to be a certain number. Well under 30 if you have to head the IVF route is that true? cause for my BMI to reach that i have to lose 14lbs so i was going to work hard now rather than get there and them saying come back when you have lost that amount. :shrug: Wishing you all the luck in the world and i'll be thinking about u xx:hugs:


----------



## Pink Lolly

mumanddad said:


> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x



Hi Hayleigh

So sorry to hear about your loss and that you are going through this but welcome to the thread. We had been TTC for 15 months when we decided to visit the GP. My DH's first SA showed no sperm in November 2010 and 2nd in Dec confirmed the same. Our FS is hoping to surgically retrieve sperm and we are currently on the waiting list for IVF. It is a horrible situation to be in but we all try to support each other xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

:hugs:


----------



## Pink Lolly

wifeyw said:


> mumanddad said:
> 
> 
> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x
> 
> Hey Hayleigh,
> 
> Welcome... I'm so so sorry for your loss xx i was reading about your OH and zero sperm my DH had a SA done which came back zero sperm and he done another on Tuesday so we are awaiting the results so nerve wrecking he hasn't had a previous child though so i wouldn't say we are the same situation but keep us posted x What does your BMI have to be for IVF??
> 
> Just a question for everyone...Does anyone who has been in similar situation know what happens after the 2nd SA? will they do more bloods then refer us to FS? or refer us first then do more test. My DH asked the DR and he just said we will cross that bridge wen it comes to it.. not helpful at all:growlmad: so nervous and anxious! Just want to get the ball rolling to have our own little :baby:
> 
> xxx:hugs:Click to expand...

Hi Wifey

Welcome to the thread. I am in a similar situation to you - we had been TTC for 15 months when we went to the GP in October. In November my DH did his first SA and we received the devestating news that it contained no sperm. A repeat test in December confirmed the same. Our GP referred us to the Fertility Clinic and we had our first appointment in January. At this appoinment they took bloods from me and DH and booked me in for a mid cycle scan the following month. 

We went back at the beginning of March for the results and all of DHs bloods came back normal. The consultant gave him a quick examiniation - he had an undescended testicle which was corrected as a child which has left one side damaged. The consultant is hoping to retrieve sperm from the good side using a PESA and we are currently on the waiting list for that and IVF (have been told it will take roughly 4 months until we can get started on first cycle). If the worst case happens and they find no sperm we will use a donor. 

Hope that helps explain what may happen next for you. As for BMI - I think it depends on the eligibility criretia in your area. In our area both of our BMIs had to be below 30 to be eligible for funding. We were lucky as mine was only 24 and DHs was 30.1, which they said was OK!

Good luck and keep in touch with us xx


----------



## Deb111

I think our GP etc did things the wrong way round! We were referred to the fertility clinic without having any tests done so all our blood tests, scans, SA's were done once we had been referred

The NHS criteria for our area is below BMI of 30 for me and even though we're going to be going privately now, that's what I'm trying to get mine down to as I figure it's got to be better for me anyway BUT if I lived about 8 miles away, that PCT don't have a maximum BMI for NHS funding! CRAZY!


----------



## wifeyw

Pink Lolly said:


> wifeyw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mumanddad said:
> 
> 
> Hello ladies can i please join you all?
> 
> Bit about me n oh...
> 
> Im hayleigh and im 23 and matt is 25, we have a beautiful angel son Logan-george who was still born at 43 +2..
> 
> We have been ttc now for 35 cycles and nothing.. We have had tests and scans then the doctor refered us to the hospital..
> 
> Well oh's results had been lost in the hospital movement so the fs asked him to produce a new sample..
> 
> We got the results on thursday and there is no sperm present :( but there waa in previous tests, has this happened to anyone else?
> 
> We are waiting for ivf i have to lose 2 stone yet to get it on the nhs but we are not sure about using a sperm doner... Still in talking at the moment
> 
> thanks for reading x
> 
> Hey Hayleigh,
> 
> Welcome... I'm so so sorry for your loss xx i was reading about your OH and zero sperm my DH had a SA done which came back zero sperm and he done another on Tuesday so we are awaiting the results so nerve wrecking he hasn't had a previous child though so i wouldn't say we are the same situation but keep us posted x What does your BMI have to be for IVF??
> 
> Just a question for everyone...Does anyone who has been in similar situation know what happens after the 2nd SA? will they do more bloods then refer us to FS? or refer us first then do more test. My DH asked the DR and he just said we will cross that bridge wen it comes to it.. not helpful at all:growlmad: so nervous and anxious! Just want to get the ball rolling to have our own little :baby:
> 
> xxx:hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Wifey
> 
> Welcome to the thread. I am in a similar situation to you - we had been TTC for 15 months when we went to the GP in October. In November my DH did his first SA and we received the devestating news that it contained no sperm. A repeat test in December confirmed the same. Our GP referred us to the Fertility Clinic and we had our first appointment in January. At this appoinment they took bloods from me and DH and booked me in for a mid cycle scan the following month.
> 
> We went back at the beginning of March for the results and all of DHs bloods came back normal. The consultant gave him a quick examiniation - he had an undescended testicle which was corrected as a child which has left one side damaged. The consultant is hoping to retrieve sperm from the good side using a PESA and we are currently on the waiting list for that and IVF (have been told it will take roughly 4 months until we can get started on first cycle). If the worst case happens and they find no sperm we will use a donor.
> 
> Hope that helps explain what may happen next for you. As for BMI - I think it depends on the eligibility criretia in your area. In our area both of our BMIs had to be below 30 to be eligible for funding. We were lucky as mine was only 24 and DHs was 30.1, which they said was OK!
> 
> Good luck and keep in touch with us xxClick to expand...

Thank u sooo much for explaining everything to me it helps alot!!!! :flower: How did your DH and u feel whenever you got the results.. we just wanted to lock ourselves away from everything and cry we felt so down after 1st one. :happydance: soo soo happy for u that u are on ur way i'm really really hoping you can have a bio child.. thats another question if u don't mind me asking was ur DH upset at the fact of using donor sperm? we have talked alittle about it and its kind of mixed emotions on both sides. 4 months for first cycle isn't as bad as i thought, although at that time it might see a lifetime to wait but i thought it would be around 6 months to 8 months. 

Did everything turn out ok with u, ur bloods come back normal too? would you have reg AF? 

My DH has other complications like operations near there like hernia, when he was 16 he had kidney transplant which is now failing only working 25% and in 2002 he had lymphoma cancer. Which makes me think all the medication he's on for that could be causing harm to the sperm but when he asked the transplant dr and he said the medication shouldn't affect him fertility wise... :shrug:

As for BMI I'm 31.7 DH is 24.. sooo need more :sex: to get that down haha :haha:they say thats best exercise:thumbup: How do you find out if you meet the critera through your FS or dr or just by looking on NHS website? I want to get down in weight anyways when i lost 3 1/2 stone for the wedding it gave me will power so hopefully this will i've me the motivation to get back on it again.. sooo hard tho, will get easier wen bright nights and summer comes tho:winkwink:

Wen have u to go back wat date did they give u one? let us know wat happens wen and if u find out anything else. xx GL with getting :bfp:


----------



## wifeyw

Deb111 said:


> I think our GP etc did things the wrong way round! We were referred to the fertility clinic without having any tests done so all our blood tests, scans, SA's were done once we had been referred
> 
> The NHS criteria for our area is below BMI of 30 for me and even though we're going to be going privately now, that's what I'm trying to get mine down to as I figure it's got to be better for me anyway BUT if I lived about 8 miles away, that PCT don't have a maximum BMI for NHS funding! CRAZY!

How long did it take ur DR to refer u's? i hate the thought of it being out of our hands and in limbo... I'm not very good with waiting my DH calls me Monica out of friends lol cause I have to have everything done yesterday... he finds it cute :shrug::shrug: no idea y lol. 

I've only seen girls saying it has to be under 30 for going to IVF i think i seen one girl saying as long as it's under 35 that's wat got me confused. Your right it's totally CRAZY i don't see the point! :nope:

Is ur BMI ticker right? cause if so we have the same weight to lose woo hoo we can push each other to get to there quicker... Monica style!! lol. Are you cutting down or exercising? How are u finding the whole weight loss thing? 


Lots of hugs xxx GL


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi Hayleigh, welcome.

I am so sorry to hear of your loss, it must be really tough on you to now be in this situation!

My DH has unexplained infertility, he has a 19 year old son from his first marriage and they got pregnant first month of trying! And now - nothing at all! He had the SSR and they found sperm are not maturing. Completely unexplained, but something to do with hormones I think, they never really explained it to us.

Our only option now is using a donor, and although DH is really fine with it, I am not, I am struggling, I really want by DH's baby and I am strugglign with the whole thing. We will do it, I just need to get my head around it first. It's really strange - I am fighting one against the other - I really really want a baby but at the same time I don't want to do this! I am sure I just need time! I hope! Because DH has a son, the NHS won't do it for us, we have to go private, which after the nightmare with his SSR op (with NHS) this is no bad thing for us!

Althogh we have a problem, it is many many years since my DH had a baby so I can udnerstand a change in him, but for your DH, this must have been such a shock as you have been pregnant recently, so I would imagine the drugs he is taking is having an effect, but they should be able to tell you that. God you guys have had a tough time! you poor things, :(

The main thing is that the two of you talk to each other and be honest, also share it with someone close to you, do you have any friends who have had trouble conceiving, even if they ended up doing it natrually, I have my sister in law who got to IVF and found out they were pregnant when she was just about to start the drugs, and she is the only one who can really simpathise with me and understand as IVF was a real option for them, everyone else seems to just think we should get on with it, they just don't understand and their pressure does not help!

Good luck, I really hope you get some news that tells you what the problem is, also well done with the weight loss - keep it up thats great!
XX


----------



## mumanddad

Step Mummy said:


> Hi Hayleigh, welcome.
> 
> I am so sorry to hear of your loss, it must be really tough on you to now be in this situation!
> 
> My DH has unexplained infertility, he has a 19 year old son from his first marriage and they got pregnant first month of trying! And now - nothing at all! He had the SSR and they found sperm are not maturing. Completely unexplained, but something to do with hormones I think, they never really explained it to us.
> 
> Our only option now is using a donor, and although DH is really fine with it, I am not, I am struggling, I really want by DH's baby and I am strugglign with the whole thing. We will do it, I just need to get my head around it first. It's really strange - I am fighting one against the other - I really really want a baby but at the same time I don't want to do this! I am sure I just need time! I hope! Because DH has a son, the NHS won't do it for us, we have to go private, which after the nightmare with his SSR op (with NHS) this is no bad thing for us!
> 
> Althogh we have a problem, it is many many years since my DH had a baby so I can udnerstand a change in him, but for your DH, this must have been such a shock as you have been pregnant recently, so I would imagine the drugs he is taking is having an effect, but they should be able to tell you that. God you guys have had a tough time! you poor things, :(
> 
> The main thing is that the two of you talk to each other and be honest, also share it with someone close to you, do you have any friends who have had trouble conceiving, even if they ended up doing it natrually, I have my sister in law who got to IVF and found out they were pregnant when she was just about to start the drugs, and she is the only one who can really simpathise with me and understand as IVF was a real option for them, everyone else seems to just think we should get on with it, they just don't understand and their pressure does not help!
> 
> Good luck, I really hope you get some news that tells you what the problem is, also well done with the weight loss - keep it up thats great!
> XX

Thank you for the reply, im dealing with it badly too it makes me think well its just like chesting on oh.... He seems to be ok though about it now..

I hsve looked at adoption so if he gets bsd results in a few weeks then wecare going to jointhe waiting list.
I reply more later once im in from work x


----------



## Pink Lolly

*Wifey*

Hi again Wifey - thanks for the good luck and glad to have been of help! It really is a horrible scary thing to have to deal with and I can imagine how you must be feeling. 

When we first found out we were devestated like you - it was a Friday after work when we got the results and we both just broke down in tears when the GP told us. It was awful and we literally spent the whole weekend feeling miserable and crying :nope: I felt heartbroken like someone had died or something, I'll never forget that feeling. That was when I found this forum which has been a brilliant help to me so I'm glad you found us too! The girls here are fantastic and I am really grateful to them all :happydance:

I know what you mean about being impatient, I have been exactly the same (have been driving DH Mad I think!) but the time does go by quicker than you expect.

Our GP was really good when he broke the news of the first SA - told us not to give up hope - he told us there was a chance they could retrieve sperm surgically through SSR and also mentioned using donor sperm. From the very beginning we both said that we would use a donor if we needed to and I think the way the GP introduced us to the idea really helped with that. Overall DH has been OK about using a donor as he really wants a baby - but he still has the occasional day when he gets upset about it all. I think it takes a while to get used to the idea and it is such a shock when you first get the results.

For me all of my results have been absolutely fine :thumbup: I have had bloods taken and an internal scan which was all OK and AF is fairly regular so no problems there either.

Funding wise - just after the GP referred us to the fertility clinic, they sent us a questionnaire to fill in and also some info which included the NHS funding eligibility criteria for our area. When we had our first appointment at the clinic, the nurse we saw went through it all with us and confirmed we were eligible :thumbup: We do only get funding for one go though so will have to pay for anything after that. Your BMI is not far off 30 anyway so it wont take long. To be honest even though mine is OK I have joined the gym and do exercise classes twice a week anyway as I want to be as healthy as possible for the treatment. I've also found it helps relieve some stress as well and makes the weeks go by quicker when busy!

I have put together a timeline below for you to see as a guide what has happened so far for us and when - hope this helps you. As you will see our GP referred us to the Fertility Clinic pretty early on which I think moved things along a bit but because there are lots of tests and appointments involved the time does go quickly -

5th October 2010 - First visit to GP as TTC for 15 months. GP ordered initial fertility blood tests for me and suggested SA for DH

20th October 2010 - Initial Fertility Blood Tests for me - Results 25th October were all normal. GP suggests Day 21 Blood Test (Progesterone) to check ovulation. GP made referral to Fertility Clinic.

5th November 2010 - Initial Questionnaire and Funding Criteria received from the Fertility Clinic

16th November 2010 - First SA for DH

19th November 2010 - Results of SA showed Zero Sperm - devesated :cry:

1st December 2010 - Day 21 Blood Test for Progesterone confirms I am ovulating

21st December 2010 - Second SA

5th January 2011 - Results of Second SA confirmed Zero Sperm

20th January 2011 - First Consulation at Fertility Clinic. 
Blood Tests for me -AMH (Ovarian Reserve), Rubella and Chlamydia Antibodies - All results OK. Internal Scan order for the middle of next cycle.

Blood Tests for DH - Hormones (Testosterone, FSH and LH), Micro Y Deletions Cystic Fibrosis Carrier and Karyotype. All Results Normal.

BMI checked and confirmation that we are eligible for funding for our first cycle IVF/ICSI.

8th February 2011 - Internal scan on Day 11. Everything looks OK but nurse feels it is a little early in the cycle so orders Day 21 bloods to check ovulation. Results confirmed ovulation.

8th March 2011 - Second Appointment at Fertility Clinic. FS goes through all results, quick examination of DH reveals that the right testicle is damaged (this one was undescended and corrected as a child). Left side is normal so FS hopes to retrieve sperm from this side. Put on the waiting list for IVF/ICSI with PESA (trial PESA beforehand to see if sperm is found).

Now waiting IVF consultation appointment

So that's our story so far!! I hope that helps and sorry it has turned into such an essay! When do you get your next lot of results? Have you had any tests done yourself yet?

Take care and keep in touch :hugs:


----------



## Pink Lolly

Ladies I thought it was about time I started a journal - I have a link of my signature please come and stalk me! xxx


----------



## Dancergirl

bodaciousajac said:


> Hi ladies :) I've been reading this forum for awhile, but had yet posted. My wonderful husband and I are high school sweethearts, and recently wed last year, we had ntnp for about six years, and really started "focusing" last year- I knew something might be up, so with the start of 2011, I made an apt to see a fs. Wow, how our world changed, my husband was diagnosed with an azf-a micro deletion. After seeing a urologist, the chances of them finding sperm through a tese, was sooo rare ( in fact most research I've read with this deletion, none has been found), so we decided to try Iui with donor sperm... However, I was diagnosed with reduced ovarian reserve...so I'm currentlyntaking DHEA, along with acupuncture to hopefully increase my odds once we start our Iui cycles. ( we have to wait for at least three months, so looks like the end of may, we would hopefully start! Have any of you used DHEA and had good results? What about Iui with DS?

Hi Bodaciousajac.... just wanted to respond to your IUI with DS? My husband and I did IUI 4 times using DS while I was on the clomid pill. All four tries were unsuccessful. The doctor told us we only had one more option before we would have to turn to IVF (which we couldn't afford right now). 

Starting on day 5, my DH had to give me a daily shot (HMG). I went in on day 9 to see if my follicles and lining were progressing as much as they would like. The decided to double my dose in the shots since the follicles were just slightly smaller than they liked. On day 11, I went back to the dr. Everything looked great and on day 12, instead of the HMG shot, my husband gave me the HCG shot that would trigger my ovulation to happen. Day 13 we went in for the IUI using DS. They also put me on progesterone trouche twice daily to help secure the pregnancy if it did take. 

It was a painful month for both my husband who had to give me the shots and for me who had to get the shot each night. But it was totally worth it when we got the :bfp:a few weeks later!!! We doubted the IUI with DS would work, but it did for us!! 

Best of luck to you as you find the process that works for you!!


----------



## wifeyw

Pink Lolly said:


> *Wifey*
> 
> Hi again Wifey - thanks for the good luck and glad to have been of help! It really is a horrible scary thing to have to deal with and I can imagine how you must be feeling.
> 
> When we first found out we were devestated like you - it was a Friday after work when we got the results and we both just broke down in tears when the GP told us. It was awful and we literally spent the whole weekend feeling miserable and crying :nope: I felt heartbroken like someone had died or something, I'll never forget that feeling. That was when I found this forum which has been a brilliant help to me so I'm glad you found us too! The girls here are fantastic and I am really grateful to them all :happydance:
> 
> I know what you mean about being impatient, I have been exactly the same (have been driving DH Mad I think!) but the time does go by quicker than you expect.
> 
> Our GP was really good when he broke the news of the first SA - told us not to give up hope - he told us there was a chance they could retrieve sperm surgically through SSR and also mentioned using donor sperm. From the very beginning we both said that we would use a donor if we needed to and I think the way the GP introduced us to the idea really helped with that. Overall DH has been OK about using a donor as he really wants a baby - but he still has the occasional day when he gets upset about it all. I think it takes a while to get used to the idea and it is such a shock when you first get the results.
> 
> For me all of my results have been absolutely fine :thumbup: I have had bloods taken and an internal scan which was all OK and AF is fairly regular so no problems there either.
> 
> Funding wise - just after the GP referred us to the fertility clinic, they sent us a questionnaire to fill in and also some info which included the NHS funding eligibility criteria for our area. When we had our first appointment at the clinic, the nurse we saw went through it all with us and confirmed we were eligible :thumbup: We do only get funding for one go though so will have to pay for anything after that. Your BMI is not far off 30 anyway so it wont take long. To be honest even though mine is OK I have joined the gym and do exercise classes twice a week anyway as I want to be as healthy as possible for the treatment. I've also found it helps relieve some stress as well and makes the weeks go by quicker when busy!
> 
> I have put together a timeline below for you to see as a guide what has happened so far for us and when - hope this helps you. As you will see our GP referred us to the Fertility Clinic pretty early on which I think moved things along a bit but because there are lots of tests and appointments involved the time does go quickly -
> 
> 5th October 2010 - First visit to GP as TTC for 15 months. GP ordered initial fertility blood tests for me and suggested SA for DH
> 
> 20th October 2010 - Initial Fertility Blood Tests for me - Results 25th October were all normal. GP suggests Day 21 Blood Test (Progesterone) to check ovulation. GP made referral to Fertility Clinic.
> 
> 5th November 2010 - Initial Questionnaire and Funding Criteria received from the Fertility Clinic
> 
> 16th November 2010 - First SA for DH
> 
> 19th November 2010 - Results of SA showed Zero Sperm - devesated :cry:
> 
> 1st December 2010 - Day 21 Blood Test for Progesterone confirms I am ovulating
> 
> 21st December 2010 - Second SA
> 
> 5th January 2011 - Results of Second SA confirmed Zero Sperm
> 
> 20th January 2011 - First Consulation at Fertility Clinic.
> Blood Tests for me -AMH (Ovarian Reserve), Rubella and Chlamydia Antibodies - All results OK. Internal Scan order for the middle of next cycle.
> 
> Blood Tests for DH - Hormones (Testosterone, FSH and LH), Micro Y Deletions Cystic Fibrosis Carrier and Karyotype. All Results Normal.
> 
> BMI checked and confirmation that we are eligible for funding for our first cycle IVF/ICSI.
> 
> 8th February 2011 - Internal scan on Day 11. Everything looks OK but nurse feels it is a little early in the cycle so orders Day 21 bloods to check ovulation. Results confirmed ovulation.
> 
> 8th March 2011 - Second Appointment at Fertility Clinic. FS goes through all results, quick examination of DH reveals that the right testicle is damaged (this one was undescended and corrected as a child). Left side is normal so FS hopes to retrieve sperm from this side. Put on the waiting list for IVF/ICSI with PESA (trial PESA beforehand to see if sperm is found).
> 
> Now waiting IVF consultation appointment
> 
> So that's our story so far!! I hope that helps and sorry it has turned into such an essay! When do you get your next lot of results? Have you had any tests done yourself yet?
> 
> Take care and keep in touch :hugs:

You were very lucky that your GP referred u quick thats wat i want to happen for us... it has happened quicker than i suspected on ur side. Hopefully we are as quick. sounds like you got a good GP! We have 2 seperate GP's which is a pain because it's in 2 different areas and as my GP is closest i would love my DH to join mine but because he has had all different medical issues and his GP is used to that he doesn't want to change as he knows his situation best. but hey ho i guess that takes longer going between the 2 aswell. anyways..

Last time i went to my doctor he ordered all different blood tests he said hes testing for all hormones levels etc and the usual checks they do and they all came back fine just showing i had PCOS which i knew anyway. I don't know the exact test that was done though :shrug:

As for DH SA 2nd results we have to phone up on wednesday but i might phone up tuesday to see if they are back yet and if not phone again on wednesday... so nervous to hear it all over again. DH thinks they have it mixed up i think he doesn't want to accept it which is why i'm nervous because he hasn't got as emotional as me the 1st time he says he want to see wat the next result is so if its the same he's going to be so devastated. He says he wants there to be even a few just so he knows he's producing them.

I'm glad for you it's just one of you and not the 2 as it would have taken longer even though it would be better if none of u's had problems but it could be worse i guess - which i think it will with us because i have PCOS and wats going on with DH. 

I've been trying to go to gym 3 times a week from before our wedding and cutting down i don't have much of an appetite and wen i do its carbs which is a no no for PCOS. I have to train myself into eatting properly through the day cause i'm stuck in this if i'm not hungry i don't eat thing. BMI isn't far off but I've seemed to hit a brick wall i think i need to up my workout abit more:dohh: i agree with u it is a good stress releaser! I've tried the classes once or twice and i'm always conked out on the floor not being able to move after :haha: I done a body combat class and DH and his bro decided to come ( the only 2 men there haha) was funny cause DH was wanted to stop for water and the instructor kept shouttin at him was a kodak moment:haha: after the 45 min class we went back into the gym for another 2 hours :laugh2: yeah never again that whole week i was like a woman at 70!!!

Thank u so much for taking the time to write everything down for me.:thumbup: I hope you aren't waiting too long on the waiting list and i'm hoping everything goes smoothly whenever the time comes which i'm sure it will. I'll let u know how goes on tuesday/wednesday xxx U do the same :hug:


----------



## Pink Lolly

wifeyw said:


> Pink Lolly said:
> 
> 
> *Wifey*
> 
> Hi again Wifey - thanks for the good luck and glad to have been of help! It really is a horrible scary thing to have to deal with and I can imagine how you must be feeling.
> 
> When we first found out we were devestated like you - it was a Friday after work when we got the results and we both just broke down in tears when the GP told us. It was awful and we literally spent the whole weekend feeling miserable and crying :nope: I felt heartbroken like someone had died or something, I'll never forget that feeling. That was when I found this forum which has been a brilliant help to me so I'm glad you found us too! The girls here are fantastic and I am really grateful to them all :happydance:
> 
> I know what you mean about being impatient, I have been exactly the same (have been driving DH Mad I think!) but the time does go by quicker than you expect.
> 
> Our GP was really good when he broke the news of the first SA - told us not to give up hope - he told us there was a chance they could retrieve sperm surgically through SSR and also mentioned using donor sperm. From the very beginning we both said that we would use a donor if we needed to and I think the way the GP introduced us to the idea really helped with that. Overall DH has been OK about using a donor as he really wants a baby - but he still has the occasional day when he gets upset about it all. I think it takes a while to get used to the idea and it is such a shock when you first get the results.
> 
> For me all of my results have been absolutely fine :thumbup: I have had bloods taken and an internal scan which was all OK and AF is fairly regular so no problems there either.
> 
> Funding wise - just after the GP referred us to the fertility clinic, they sent us a questionnaire to fill in and also some info which included the NHS funding eligibility criteria for our area. When we had our first appointment at the clinic, the nurse we saw went through it all with us and confirmed we were eligible :thumbup: We do only get funding for one go though so will have to pay for anything after that. Your BMI is not far off 30 anyway so it wont take long. To be honest even though mine is OK I have joined the gym and do exercise classes twice a week anyway as I want to be as healthy as possible for the treatment. I've also found it helps relieve some stress as well and makes the weeks go by quicker when busy!
> 
> I have put together a timeline below for you to see as a guide what has happened so far for us and when - hope this helps you. As you will see our GP referred us to the Fertility Clinic pretty early on which I think moved things along a bit but because there are lots of tests and appointments involved the time does go quickly -
> 
> 5th October 2010 - First visit to GP as TTC for 15 months. GP ordered initial fertility blood tests for me and suggested SA for DH
> 
> 20th October 2010 - Initial Fertility Blood Tests for me - Results 25th October were all normal. GP suggests Day 21 Blood Test (Progesterone) to check ovulation. GP made referral to Fertility Clinic.
> 
> 5th November 2010 - Initial Questionnaire and Funding Criteria received from the Fertility Clinic
> 
> 16th November 2010 - First SA for DH
> 
> 19th November 2010 - Results of SA showed Zero Sperm - devesated :cry:
> 
> 1st December 2010 - Day 21 Blood Test for Progesterone confirms I am ovulating
> 
> 21st December 2010 - Second SA
> 
> 5th January 2011 - Results of Second SA confirmed Zero Sperm
> 
> 20th January 2011 - First Consulation at Fertility Clinic.
> Blood Tests for me -AMH (Ovarian Reserve), Rubella and Chlamydia Antibodies - All results OK. Internal Scan order for the middle of next cycle.
> 
> Blood Tests for DH - Hormones (Testosterone, FSH and LH), Micro Y Deletions Cystic Fibrosis Carrier and Karyotype. All Results Normal.
> 
> BMI checked and confirmation that we are eligible for funding for our first cycle IVF/ICSI.
> 
> 8th February 2011 - Internal scan on Day 11. Everything looks OK but nurse feels it is a little early in the cycle so orders Day 21 bloods to check ovulation. Results confirmed ovulation.
> 
> 8th March 2011 - Second Appointment at Fertility Clinic. FS goes through all results, quick examination of DH reveals that the right testicle is damaged (this one was undescended and corrected as a child). Left side is normal so FS hopes to retrieve sperm from this side. Put on the waiting list for IVF/ICSI with PESA (trial PESA beforehand to see if sperm is found).
> 
> Now waiting IVF consultation appointment
> 
> So that's our story so far!! I hope that helps and sorry it has turned into such an essay! When do you get your next lot of results? Have you had any tests done yourself yet?
> 
> Take care and keep in touch :hugs:
> 
> You were very lucky that your GP referred u quick thats wat i want to happen for us... it has happened quicker than i suspected on ur side. Hopefully we are as quick. sounds like you got a good GP! We have 2 seperate GP's which is a pain because it's in 2 different areas and as my GP is closest i would love my DH to join mine but because he has had all different medical issues and his GP is used to that he doesn't want to change as he knows his situation best. but hey ho i guess that takes longer going between the 2 aswell. anyways..
> 
> Last time i went to my doctor he ordered all different blood tests he said hes testing for all hormones levels etc and the usual checks they do and they all came back fine just showing i had PCOS which i knew anyway. I don't know the exact test that was done though :shrug:
> 
> As for DH SA 2nd results we have to phone up on wednesday but i might phone up tuesday to see if they are back yet and if not phone again on wednesday... so nervous to hear it all over again. DH thinks they have it mixed up i think he doesn't want to accept it which is why i'm nervous because he hasn't got as emotional as me the 1st time he says he want to see wat the next result is so if its the same he's going to be so devastated. He says he wants there to be even a few just so he knows he's producing them.
> 
> I'm glad for you it's just one of you and not the 2 as it would have taken longer even though it would be better if none of u's had problems but it could be worse i guess - which i think it will with us because i have PCOS and wats going on with DH.
> 
> I've been trying to go to gym 3 times a week from before our wedding and cutting down i don't have much of an appetite and wen i do its carbs which is a no no for PCOS. I have to train myself into eatting properly through the day cause i'm stuck in this if i'm not hungry i don't eat thing. BMI isn't far off but I've seemed to hit a brick wall i think i need to up my workout abit more:dohh: i agree with u it is a good stress releaser! I've tried the classes once or twice and i'm always conked out on the floor not being able to move after :haha: I done a body combat class and DH and his bro decided to come ( the only 2 men there haha) was funny cause DH was wanted to stop for water and the instructor kept shouttin at him was a kodak moment:haha: after the 45 min class we went back into the gym for another 2 hours :laugh2: yeah never again that whole week i was like a woman at 70!!!
> 
> Thank u so much for taking the time to write everything down for me.:thumbup: I hope you aren't waiting too long on the waiting list and i'm hoping everything goes smoothly whenever the time comes which i'm sure it will. I'll let u know how goes on tuesday/wednesday xxx U do the same :hug:Click to expand...


Will definitely keep in touch - let us know how you get on on Tuesday and good luck for the results. BTW me and DH are also registered at two different GPs and it has been fine. My GP did the referral to the fertility clinic and after the initial bloods and SAs we hav dealt with the clinic direct so being registered at different GPs wasn't a problem at all so hopefully be the same for you. I thought about changing whenh we first got the results but there wasnt any need xx


----------



## Dancergirl

My DH and I always talk about how many people get pregnant for free while having pleasure. Yet, infertility making conceiving expensive, painful at times, and definitively not a sexually pleasurable thing to do.


----------



## april4jdg

we didn't get to do the d-iui.... Dr said everything looked good. Estrogen was at 1500 on CD13, but my endometrial lining was too thin... i am meeting with her today to get a new plan for this month... She said it happens with Clomid sometimes. I had to give myself an HCG shot, to make sure I would ovulate, so the follicles wouldn't turn into cysts next month... I am so bummed out... But today, I will feel better, because atleast we will have a new game plan...


----------



## wifeyw

april4jdg said:


> we didn't get to do the d-iui.... Dr said everything looked good. Estrogen was at 1500 on CD13, but my endometrial lining was too thin... i am meeting with her today to get a new plan for this month... She said it happens with Clomid sometimes. I had to give myself an HCG shot, to make sure I would ovulate, so the follicles wouldn't turn into cysts next month... I am so bummed out... But today, I will feel better, because atleast we will have a new game plan...

Hey april, my sister has endrometriosis and PCOS and her lining was thin and she carried her first full term but there was abit of bleeding. don't know if thats good info but just thought i'd let u know! but GL with next months and hoping for a BFP soon for u xx


----------



## wifeyw

So i phoned up today about the results just to see if they are back and they are they won't say over the phone so we have an appointments for wednesday at 3:50 DH is so nervous I just want to get all questions together for when i'm there that i want to know and write them down so i don't forget. but i will keep posting letting everyone know xx how is everyone feelings?


----------



## Pink Lolly

Dancergirl said:


> My DH and I always talk about how many people get pregnant for free while having pleasure. Yet, infertility making conceiving expensive, painful at times, and definitively not a sexually pleasurable thing to do.


You are very right Dancer, me and my DH always say the same. It doesn't seem fair somehow. Hope you are doing ok xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

wifeyw said:


> So i phoned up today about the results just to see if they are back and they are they won't say over the phone so we have an appointments for wednesday at 3:50 DH is so nervous I just want to get all questions together for when i'm there that i want to know and write them down so i don't forget. but i will keep posting letting everyone know xx how is everyone feelings?

Hi Wifey - good luck for DHs results and let us know how you get on. I remember when we got DHs second results, we were geared up for the results and had prepared ourselves which made it much easier than the first time. Hope you and your DH are OK - just remember you do have options. Thinking of you both xxx


----------



## wifeyw

Pink Lolly said:


> wifeyw said:
> 
> 
> So i phoned up today about the results just to see if they are back and they are they won't say over the phone so we have an appointments for wednesday at 3:50 DH is so nervous I just want to get all questions together for when i'm there that i want to know and write them down so i don't forget. but i will keep posting letting everyone know xx how is everyone feelings?
> 
> Hi Wifey - good luck for DHs results and let us know how you get on. I remember when we got DHs second results, we were geared up for the results and had prepared ourselves which made it much easier than the first time. Hope you and your DH are OK - just remember you do have options. Thinking of you both xxxClick to expand...

Aww thank u Pink Lolly, right now i am waiting on DH to come home from work to go find out DH was just on the phone saying he was anxious..its so nerve wrecking i know i'm going to have to be strong for him if they come back the same this time cause i've prepared myself be DH hasn't, i don't know how to feel at the moment. as soon as i get them i will let u know. couple hours to go. xxx


----------



## wifeyw

ok...um where to start so sorry if i go on alittle.. well...we went down for the results and got a junior doctor :shrug: he told us that the tests results came back more or less the same as the last time that there wasn't any sperm wat so ever there. :nope:

So he started asking about DH kidney transplant etc and past DH has had 3 hernia operations when he was 13 or so so we asked if that would have any affect and the doctor replied with " i don't know" ( at this point i looked over to DH and i could see he was getting emotional about the whole thing and trying to take everything in i just wanted to give him a massive hug) he didn't seem to know alot about anything. I was the one questioning everything.. ( i bet i seemed like a real nasty pasty but i just want to get all the information and blanks filled in) I know the FS will answer alot of them for us... ( but me being me i want it all done yesterday)

On that note he said he would refer us to FS yay! which could take 14 weeks or more depending on the list... I feel so relieved in a way that things will finally get started... but in the mean time he's sending DH for ultra sound scan and blood ( which i had to ask him for and the DR didn't know which bloods he was going to find out and then send for DH) but i think it's a good thing that they are doing that before referred to FS we wont have to go through more waiting and it will mean we will feel like somethings getting done rather than a big gap of nothing and worrying more aswell as dragging it out more.:thumbup:

Question for everyone in same situation.. When referred to FS did u and ur partner have to say to the others GP about it? Did your GP's have to refer you's seperately?

So i'm still unsure weather to go to my GP and tell him everything and say to him about the referral as my GP was the one who asked me to get DH to do a SA. I asked DH's GP if i needed to go to mine and he looked puzzeled ( uh did i say something wrong?) he said well yeah u can if want i don't see why not :-s so as soon as we got out i phoned my GP and there was a cancelation app for tomarrow at 4:40pm so i'm booked in and while i'm there i might ask for some weight loss tablets or something to get me down faster... does anyone know what they call the one that helps with weight loss for PCOS suffers?


Oh and my sister got her 1st scan today which my mum phoned me up to ask about how the GP went and i told her everything, and i asked about how my sisters scan went and she said that there's a fibroid ( which they thought it might been a twin that died) growing in with the baby and its bigger than the baby's head and they have to keep a close eye on everything and asked her to consider a planned C-section to deliver baby as going the natural way might harm it. and she might need a blood transfusion too. as much as i am really sad that shes PG and i'm not i don't wish any harm on any of them. I just sometimes think that my mum doesn't really truely understand what we are going through. she said tell DH that everything will be fine but she seemed more worried about what was going on with my sister than us.. i know that sounds so selfish but it was always the way.:cry: maybe i feel like this cause i was up worrying and never got any sleep.. i dunno. my heads a mess trying to stay strong for DH when we got home i tried to stay positive as DH is so down and he asked are u not upset or gutted, i said yeah course i am i know its hard to hear but i know we will get there in the end and at least this is the start of a long journey but we will get there and the baby will be so wanted and so loved which makes it even more special experience ( i was crumbling on the inside though i just wanted to be strong). i will keep everyone informed about tomarrow.


I'm sorry girlies that i've went on so long .. oh my i had'nt realised how much until i checked there now lol

Pink polly i'm just going to your journal to read wats been happening with u i hope everyones having a better day than us xxx


----------



## Pink Lolly

wifeyw said:


> ok...um where to start so sorry if i go on alittle.. well...we went down for the results and got a junior doctor :shrug: he told us that the tests results came back more or less the same as the last time that there wasn't any sperm wat so ever there. :nope:
> 
> So he started asking about DH kidney transplant etc and past DH has had 3 hernia operations when he was 13 or so so we asked if that would have any affect and the doctor replied with " i don't know" ( at this point i looked over to DH and i could see he was getting emotional about the whole thing and trying to take everything in i just wanted to give him a massive hug) he didn't seem to know alot about anything. I was the one questioning everything.. ( i bet i seemed like a real nasty pasty but i just want to get all the information and blanks filled in) I know the FS will answer alot of them for us... ( but me being me i want it all done yesterday)
> 
> On that note he said he would refer us to FS yay! which could take 14 weeks or more depending on the list... I feel so relieved in a way that things will finally get started... but in the mean time he's sending DH for ultra sound scan and blood ( which i had to ask him for and the DR didn't know which bloods he was going to find out and then send for DH) but i think it's a good thing that they are doing that before referred to FS we wont have to go through more waiting and it will mean we will feel like somethings getting done rather than a big gap of nothing and worrying more aswell as dragging it out more.:thumbup:
> 
> Question for everyone in same situation.. When referred to FS did u and ur partner have to say to the others GP about it? Did your GP's have to refer you's seperately?
> 
> So i'm still unsure weather to go to my GP and tell him everything and say to him about the referral as my GP was the one who asked me to get DH to do a SA. I asked DH's GP if i needed to go to mine and he looked puzzeled ( uh did i say something wrong?) he said well yeah u can if want i don't see why not :-s so as soon as we got out i phoned my GP and there was a cancelation app for tomarrow at 4:40pm so i'm booked in and while i'm there i might ask for some weight loss tablets or something to get me down faster... does anyone know what they call the one that helps with weight loss for PCOS suffers?
> 
> 
> Oh and my sister got her 1st scan today which my mum phoned me up to ask about how the GP went and i told her everything, and i asked about how my sisters scan went and she said that there's a fibroid ( which they thought it might been a twin that died) growing in with the baby and its bigger than the baby's head and they have to keep a close eye on everything and asked her to consider a planned C-section to deliver baby as going the natural way might harm it. and she might need a blood transfusion too. as much as i am really sad that shes PG and i'm not i don't wish any harm on any of them. I just sometimes think that my mum doesn't really truely understand what we are going through. she said tell DH that everything will be fine but she seemed more worried about what was going on with my sister than us.. i know that sounds so selfish but it was always the way.:cry: maybe i feel like this cause i was up worrying and never got any sleep.. i dunno. my heads a mess trying to stay strong for DH when we got home i tried to stay positive as DH is so down and he asked are u not upset or gutted, i said yeah course i am i know its hard to hear but i know we will get there in the end and at least this is the start of a long journey but we will get there and the baby will be so wanted and so loved which makes it even more special experience ( i was crumbling on the inside though i just wanted to be strong). i will keep everyone informed about tomarrow.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry girlies that i've went on so long .. oh my i had'nt realised how much until i checked there now lol
> 
> Pink polly i'm just going to your journal to read wats been happening with u i hope everyones having a better day than us xxx


Sorry you got bad news again wifey but at least you know now. I wouldn't worry about having a Junior Dr that didn't know much, the GPs we saw were quite experienced in general but still knew very little about a zero count at all and were of very little help, they couldn't really answer many of our Qs as to causes etc. When we got to see the FS they were really knowledgable so you will find out so much more then. 

As for the referrals.... when we got DHs results, my GP had already referred us to the FS so I told DHs GP this and he said that that referral would be for both of us and that he didn't need to refer us again. I did go back to my GP and told her the results to update my records. However, she said she would add a note to the file but as we had already been referred, they didnt really need to be involved anymore as it was in the hands of the specialists now. I think its probably wise to keep your appoibtment though and speak to your GP, even if only to update the file.

Also, I have seen some girls on here whose DH has been referred to a Urologist and then they have also been referred to an FS, so may be best to check (although that wasn't the case for us) Hope that helps. 

My heart goes out to you, know exactly how you feel, I know it doesn't seem like it but you will feel better when you get to see the FS :hugs:


----------



## wifeyw

Hey girlies how are you all came on for another rant i've had another one of those down days just doesn't seem to b getting better at all.

I had got a cancelation appointment at my GP today and they were so busy they forgot about me i was siting 1 hour 10 mins waiting - i was so MAD!!! I was telling him about everything about DH and no sperm he asked "no sperm at all?" i said no he said "well.. looks like ur going to have to think of donor sperm" ( not even saying that theres other options nothing) ... my DH and i have already talked abit about it but then he said " u know that theres very little donor sperm about here ( in northern ireland) because they can't stay anonymous anymore the only places is Dublin in ireland or holland ok so as soon as he said that i felt so sick because even though i'm not prepared to go to donor sperm unless we have excusted every option to have our own bio child i always knew it was a plan B... but now that feels like everythings getting worse... 

AF is due and im so emotional as it is i just feel so down i couldn't help it i burst into tears on my way home from the GP got back home and DH was already home from work and he was asking what was wrong and what he said and i told him... and i didn't want to break down in front of DH as i know he feels bad and that he feels as if its all his fault and he said to me last night he feels less of a man, he asked if i wanted to go and get someone who can give me a family and i broke down even more how can he think that way? he says he wouldn't want me to not have a family because of him 

I just can't wait to the FS hopefully whenever we do test and get to the bottom of things there might be hope somewhere. we are also considering tellin our immediate family. My mum is the only one who knows and DH mum has past away and he's very closest to his eldest brother so i said for him just to tell his bro for now and then whenever we know more or if the others ask then tell them. 

Has anyone else said to their families before referred or when did u's tell them?

I think i'm just going to go for a hot bath and climb into bed and hopefully wake up tomarrow feeling better and more positive!

xxx


----------



## Flake-y

Hey wifey...

My DH's GP was also useless, hadn't even heard of there being no sperm in the SA!!! It's the same in the UK for sperm donors, they can all be traced once the child turns 18. Although there are still donors available, our clinic had a few donors & there are some available through the NHS too. We got ours from the European Sperm Bank as they had better matches for my DH.

Hope you are feeling a bit better & try not to bother about your ignorant GP!!!!


----------



## wifeyw

Flake-y said:


> Hey wifey...
> 
> My DH's GP was also useless, hadn't even heard of there being no sperm in the SA!!! It's the same in the UK for sperm donors, they can all be traced once the child turns 18. Although there are still donors available, our clinic had a few donors & there are some available through the NHS too. We got ours from the European Sperm Bank as they had better matches for my DH.
> 
> Hope you are feeling a bit better & try not to bother about your ignorant GP!!!!

Hi flakey, i'm glad we rn't the only ones feel so bad moaning about it. Its the NHS way we are going through what way does the european sperm donor work if u don't mind me asking? xx


----------



## Deb111

So sorry you've had a bad day hun

I know it's horrible when you are faced with an ignorant GP who makes such flippant comments, but try to think of it like this - a GP is just your first port of call for any medical problems - they cannot be experts in everything and I guess we can't expect them to be, which is why there are specialists that we can be referred to. Most of them will admit that they don't know much detail about it, but the problem comes when they claim to be the fountain of all knowledge and make comments such as your GP.

I'm sure you will feel in better hands once you see a specialist

Hope tomorrow is a better day xx :hugs:


----------



## Step Mummy

wifeyw said:


> Hey girlies how are you all came on for another rant i've had another one of those down days just doesn't seem to b getting better at all.
> 
> I had got a cancelation appointment at my GP today and they were so busy they forgot about me i was siting 1 hour 10 mins waiting - i was so MAD!!! I was telling him about everything about DH and no sperm he asked "no sperm at all?" i said no he said "well.. looks like ur going to have to think of donor sperm" ( not even saying that theres other options nothing) ... my DH and i have already talked abit about it but then he said " u know that theres very little donor sperm about here ( in northern ireland) because they can't stay anonymous anymore the only places is Dublin in ireland or holland ok so as soon as he said that i felt so sick because even though i'm not prepared to go to donor sperm unless we have excusted every option to have our own bio child i always knew it was a plan B... but now that feels like everythings getting worse...
> 
> AF is due and im so emotional as it is i just feel so down i couldn't help it i burst into tears on my way home from the GP got back home and DH was already home from work and he was asking what was wrong and what he said and i told him... and i didn't want to break down in front of DH as i know he feels bad and that he feels as if its all his fault and he said to me last night he feels less of a man, he asked if i wanted to go and get someone who can give me a family and i broke down even more how can he think that way? he says he wouldn't want me to not have a family because of him
> 
> I just can't wait to the FS hopefully whenever we do test and get to the bottom of things there might be hope somewhere. we are also considering tellin our immediate family. My mum is the only one who knows and DH mum has past away and he's very closest to his eldest brother so i said for him just to tell his bro for now and then whenever we know more or if the others ask then tell them.
> 
> Has anyone else said to their families before referred or when did u's tell them?
> 
> I think i'm just going to go for a hot bath and climb into bed and hopefully wake up tomarrow feeling better and more positive!
> 
> xxx

Hi WifeyW
We were told it was important to share our journey with those closest to us, and althogh I was very keen on this, My DH was not so, we decided that we should tell brothers and parents. Unfrotuantely we have had trouble though, DH's brother decided to tell someone else, and we did not want another living sole to know other than those we chose, that we were using a donor, and this was very upsetting, fortunately the person he told is very close to us. This then lead us to having to tell more of our family. It has been very tough, becasue we are trying to be so secretive but at the same time sharing with those closest to us. My borther and sister-in-law decided to put pressure on us and kept telling us to just get on with it, (they have 2 beautiful young girls and feel PG straight away so had no idea) and we have recently had to sit them down and tell them how difficult this all is and how I am struggling greatly with the whole donor thing, and although we will do it, I just can't handle or deal with at teh moment. But on the other hand it is good to have someone to talk to, and as relatives to our child we felt that they had a right to know.

So I think chose carefully who you tell, and if you are trying to keep it a secret, then you are asking a lot of those you do tell, who then have to lie to others to keep your secret.

The outcome for us is - that if no-one has faced this - they have no ideea how hard it is!

As you say you do need someone other than your DH to talk to, because they feel guilty - I had the same offer - did I want to find someone else!!!No I am so upset because I want HIS baby SOOOO much!!!

Good luck,
XX


----------



## waitingginger

Hi Wifey!

Just want to say so sorry you have had the same news again! but atleast you were kind of prepared for it!! its really is a shit time for everybody especially the hubbys! mine went through eactly the same thing you should leave me for somebody who can give you a child, i am not a reall man etc! thankfully that has gotten better with time but it has been a year! 

I had exactly the same thing with my OH GP (Yep we have different one too :thumbup: i did tell mine but only because my tests all came back ok and they didnt need to do any more fertility tests on me) he said he had never came across anybody with 0 sperm before and referred us to a urologist who was completely useless who then reffered us to a urologist surgeon and then we finally got reffered to a fertility specalist!

I think the best thing you can do is prepare that is is going to take some time, its takes many appointments to find out what is actually wrong we are nearly 1 year down the line and its been about 10 appointments in total and 4 with feritility clinic and we still dont know what the problem is! i know its annoying when the doctors say this is a long and difficult journey and i wont lie it really is! you come out of the appointments so frustrated because you just want the problem to be fixed and nothing seems to be moving forward but i think its quite hard to diagnose the problem because the treatments are all so different!!

I was so impatient at first i remember and have prob wrote it in my journal but then a read some IVF stories etc and know it can take a few years for all the waiting lists and things so started to be a bit more realisitc that this probably wasnt going to happen for us until 2012 and now i feel a lot less pressure!! its still upsetting when it seems like everyone is pregnant around you i struggled with that for sometime but it does get better! i know it will happen one day for us and in the mean time we are going on great holidays planning a massive wedding and making the most of the extra money lol!! i used to hate it when ppl said that but it does help and now when ppl say i knew this bloke who got told he couldnt have kids because his sperm count was low and now he has 19 children or when people just brush you off and say i know it will happen or you dont need to worry i have realised they are just being nice and positive because they really do believe it will happen for you not because they dont care!!

sorry just realised how long that was!! 
anyway hope everybody is well and enjoying their weekend!! 

update on where we are: just waiting for an appointment for another SA (the 5th one lol) although OH doesnt seem to mind the fertility clinic SA rooms much better then the urologits one mainly because of all the porn i think ha ha!! after the first time he went there his brothers phoned to see how he got on and all he wanted to tell them about was the loads of porn lol :haha:

xxxx


----------



## wifeyw

Deb111 said:


> So sorry you've had a bad day hun
> 
> I know it's horrible when you are faced with an ignorant GP who makes such flippant comments, but try to think of it like this - a GP is just your first port of call for any medical problems - they cannot be experts in everything and I guess we can't expect them to be, which is why there are specialists that we can be referred to. Most of them will admit that they don't know much detail about it, but the problem comes when they claim to be the fountain of all knowledge and make comments such as your GP.
> 
> I'm sure you will feel in better hands once you see a specialist
> 
> Hope tomorrow is a better day xx :hugs:

I guess ur right i knew he didn't the reason i got so upset was he commented even though he knew little about it he should just said we will get to the bottom of it when the FS does the necessary test. He is a good GP though if i have a problem he usually doesn't stop until he find the cause and he refered me even though DH has referred us both so i guess that was good of him. It's just a waiting game with the FS they said 2-3 months but i know it will be longer. oh well sorry i was just so upset the other day. 

That u though that's a good way to look at it! 

How are things with u Debs?

xxx


----------



## wifeyw

Step Mummy said:


> wifeyw said:
> 
> 
> Hey girlies how are you all came on for another rant i've had another one of those down days just doesn't seem to b getting better at all.
> 
> I had got a cancelation appointment at my GP today and they were so busy they forgot about me i was siting 1 hour 10 mins waiting - i was so MAD!!! I was telling him about everything about DH and no sperm he asked "no sperm at all?" i said no he said "well.. looks like ur going to have to think of donor sperm" ( not even saying that theres other options nothing) ... my DH and i have already talked abit about it but then he said " u know that theres very little donor sperm about here ( in northern ireland) because they can't stay anonymous anymore the only places is Dublin in ireland or holland ok so as soon as he said that i felt so sick because even though i'm not prepared to go to donor sperm unless we have excusted every option to have our own bio child i always knew it was a plan B... but now that feels like everythings getting worse...
> 
> AF is due and im so emotional as it is i just feel so down i couldn't help it i burst into tears on my way home from the GP got back home and DH was already home from work and he was asking what was wrong and what he said and i told him... and i didn't want to break down in front of DH as i know he feels bad and that he feels as if its all his fault and he said to me last night he feels less of a man, he asked if i wanted to go and get someone who can give me a family and i broke down even more how can he think that way? he says he wouldn't want me to not have a family because of him
> 
> I just can't wait to the FS hopefully whenever we do test and get to the bottom of things there might be hope somewhere. we are also considering tellin our immediate family. My mum is the only one who knows and DH mum has past away and he's very closest to his eldest brother so i said for him just to tell his bro for now and then whenever we know more or if the others ask then tell them.
> 
> Has anyone else said to their families before referred or when did u's tell them?
> 
> I think i'm just going to go for a hot bath and climb into bed and hopefully wake up tomarrow feeling better and more positive!
> 
> xxx
> 
> Hi WifeyW
> We were told it was important to share our journey with those closest to us, and althogh I was very keen on this, My DH was not so, we decided that we should tell brothers and parents. Unfrotuantely we have had trouble though, DH's brother decided to tell someone else, and we did not want another living sole to know other than those we chose, that we were using a donor, and this was very upsetting, fortunately the person he told is very close to us. This then lead us to having to tell more of our family. It has been very tough, becasue we are trying to be so secretive but at the same time sharing with those closest to us. My borther and sister-in-law decided to put pressure on us and kept telling us to just get on with it, (they have 2 beautiful young girls and feel PG straight away so had no idea) and we have recently had to sit them down and tell them how difficult this all is and how I am struggling greatly with the whole donor thing, and although we will do it, I just can't handle or deal with at teh moment. But on the other hand it is good to have someone to talk to, and as relatives to our child we felt that they had a right to know.
> 
> So I think chose carefully who you tell, and if you are trying to keep it a secret, then you are asking a lot of those you do tell, who then have to lie to others to keep your secret.
> 
> The outcome for us is - that if no-one has faced this - they have no ideea how hard it is!
> 
> As you say you do need someone other than your DH to talk to, because they feel guilty - I had the same offer - did I want to find someone else!!!No I am so upset because I want HIS baby SOOOO much!!!
> 
> Good luck,
> XXClick to expand...

Hey step mummy, That's what bugs me about people the little comments they make some i guess r just speechless and trying to comfort and say things like, don't worry u will get there and stay positive it will happen or i know these people who had IVF and they have couple children what they don't really realize is that these other people didn't have 0 sperm count they just had un-explained fertility all there test came back fine... can't believe they said "just get on with it" how rude... 

I'm so sorry that you are having bad time with donor option, to be honest i do to we have talked about it. I so badly want to see how our little one would be like, who it would take after looks and brains wise etc. ( hope not my brains lol) right now at our point i said to DH i can't have someone else's baby i married u to have ur baby, our baby.. i said right now because we have tests to go i can't say i'm in that position to be ok with donor but if all the test came back saying we can't have DH child who knows i don't think i'd be ok but u never know how ur feelings by then.

soo... over the weekend DH said he was going to tell his bro's and sis's and dad which i thought was a bad idea but i thought if that's what it takes for him to help him deal with it then i guess i'll be ok as long as he is. I get what u mean it is alot to ask of people i don't want it to go past our immediate families for now... i'm afraid that they will tell we said not to but it will be a knock on affect then everyone will know and we aren't even sure whats happening at all at the moment without getting tests done and a FS. Having said that they all were very understanding to a point that they could cause i don't think anyone who hasn't been through it would understand or feel how people in our situation would.. and we don't expect them to. His 2 sis's were crying and hugging... one of his sisters said i don't know if i should tell u this right now and DH asked what it was and apparently as i've said before at aged 16 DH had a kidney transplant and the DR said that one of the risk factors to the operation might cause him to have fertility problems later in life. but his mum pasted away when he was 21 so we can't ask her more about this but his sister said she think her mum said that he was to young to say anything to and because it was a MIGHT along with other risk factors they thought nothing of it plus he wasn't wanting a child a 16 no one knew his mum would pass before then and i'm sure she never thought that either. DH wasn't annoyed about it all he thought it was just one them things the DR warns you about before operations but what is the chances??


Thank u for the advice... sorry i went on alittle i always seem to do that once i get started:blush:

How have you been?? xxx


----------



## Deb111

I'm doing ok thanks hun. Had a nice weekend which always makes Monday morning not quite so bad :thumbup:

Just to answer your question about the ultrasound that you mentioned in Pink's journal - my hubby never had an ultrasound either and after reading about people on here whose hubby's had it, I questioned our urologist. He said that because hubby's FSH level was slightly high, there was no need to do an ultrasound because his body knew there was a problem and had slightly raised his FSH to try to compensate. If there is a blockage, sperm would be being made normally, but just not getting through so all blood test levels would be normal.

I will double check in my notes tomorrow that I've got that right, but hope it at least makes sense! :thumbup: xx


----------



## wifeyw

waitingginger said:


> Hi Wifey!
> 
> Just want to say so sorry you have had the same news again! but atleast you were kind of prepared for it!! its really is a shit time for everybody especially the hubbys! mine went through eactly the same thing you should leave me for somebody who can give you a child, i am not a reall man etc! thankfully that has gotten better with time but it has been a year!
> 
> I had exactly the same thing with my OH GP (Yep we have different one too :thumbup: i did tell mine but only because my tests all came back ok and they didnt need to do any more fertility tests on me) he said he had never came across anybody with 0 sperm before and referred us to a urologist who was completely useless who then reffered us to a urologist surgeon and then we finally got reffered to a fertility specalist!
> 
> I think the best thing you can do is prepare that is is going to take some time, its takes many appointments to find out what is actually wrong we are nearly 1 year down the line and its been about 10 appointments in total and 4 with feritility clinic and we still dont know what the problem is! i know its annoying when the doctors say this is a long and difficult journey and i wont lie it really is! you come out of the appointments so frustrated because you just want the problem to be fixed and nothing seems to be moving forward but i think its quite hard to diagnose the problem because the treatments are all so different!!
> 
> I was so impatient at first i remember and have prob wrote it in my journal but then a read some IVF stories etc and know it can take a few years for all the waiting lists and things so started to be a bit more realisitc that this probably wasnt going to happen for us until 2012 and now i feel a lot less pressure!! its still upsetting when it seems like everyone is pregnant around you i struggled with that for sometime but it does get better! i know it will happen one day for us and in the mean time we are going on great holidays planning a massive wedding and making the most of the extra money lol!! i used to hate it when ppl said that but it does help and now when ppl say i knew this bloke who got told he couldnt have kids because his sperm count was low and now he has 19 children or when people just brush you off and say i know it will happen or you dont need to worry i have realised they are just being nice and positive because they really do believe it will happen for you not because they dont care!!
> 
> sorry just realised how long that was!!
> anyway hope everybody is well and enjoying their weekend!!
> 
> update on where we are: just waiting for an appointment for another SA (the 5th one lol) although OH doesnt seem to mind the fertility clinic SA rooms much better then the urologits one mainly because of all the porn i think ha ha!! after the first time he went there his brothers phoned to see how he got on and all he wanted to tell them about was the loads of porn lol :haha:
> 
> xxxx

Hi waitingginger, Thank you so much for writing that, i showed DH and it's just straight to the point which i love. scarey how much u have been through already.. why didn't they send you to a fertility specialist aswell? I don't get that :nope: As for the waiting and long journey i knew deep down inside that it would be a long hall i said prob 5 years we might get somewhere it is soooooo frustrating :cry:i just feel like crying every time that i think about how long it will take to get to the end or even just to get the answer to one question. I just wish we had done a SA sooner before we got married. I asked DH to go back at march / april last year so we can rule out if it's just me we have to deal with my PCOS or if the two of us. and maybe we would be a little further on. 
I know that little comments annoyed me and how people say things that is so frustrating cause they don't prob never will understand but u just wish they could step into ur shoes for a little while to let them know or understand but at the same time i know theres not alot that people can say to comfort us and it's not their fault. I guess if they say comments on a down day everything seems worse than it is sometimes than it would if we were having a good day.
Are you going private or NHS id u don't mind me asking? DH got to do SA at home and bring it into to clinic do they not allow that there? GL and thank u for spending time to tell me everything it really was really helpful :hugs: xxx


----------



## Deb111

I know lots of you have already seen this in my journal but not sure if I ever posted it here and thought it might be helpful to the new girls we have had join us.

https://www.zshare.net/video/875093656890091d/

Just close the advert window that opens up in front of the viewing screen


----------



## wifeyw

Deb111 said:


> I know lots of you have already seen this in my journal but not sure if I ever posted it here and thought it might be helpful to the new girls we have had join us.
> 
> https://www.zshare.net/video/875093656890091d/
> 
> Just close the advert window that opens up in front of the viewing screen

holding back the tears watching that it just says it all - it's a lovely video debs very touching and soo soo truexxx


----------



## waitingginger

we are NHS at the moment, we are at the fertility clinic at St Marys hospital in Manchester! it has been a long road to get to where we are now but i am fairly confident they know what they are doing :winkwink: have agreed with OH will see how the NHS pans out and if we are really not getting any answers at all we will look at private treatment at the start of 2013! giving us such a big time frame has really helped!

I am glad my comments helped i was worried i was to straight forward but from my expereince it does take time! i really was frustrated at cried at every appointment but it really does get easy although it doesnt feel that way at the moment! in fact the past 2 appointments i havent cried at all :smug: lol!

at first you need to go through a grieving process and while i think we sit here and know what our men are going through and can imagine how painful it is just as painful for us because we have spent every month for perhaps years wondering if this is the time AF doesnt show up and could it be this month we have lives and breathed getting pregnant for a long time and to suddenly have that taken away from you with a 0 sperm count its such a shock!

Our nephew was bron 2 weeks after we had that first result i couldnt look at him without crying! i am in a much more stable place now and can see my best friend getting ready to become a mom and feel realy happy for her!

I know it will happen and i know all of the ladies on here will have their baby one way or another its just not going to happen in the way every one thinks but i think if anything that means our babies will be extra loved and extra special because of all we will go through to have them!

you will cry, your OH will feel like shit, you will come out of appoinments feeling like it was a waste of time and nothing is happening it is a shit time for both of you nobody will understand they will always say dont worry it will happen! but you stay strong for each other, your learn to cope and you just end up agreeing with those ppl who dont have a clue! 

:hug:


----------



## Pink Lolly

waitingginger said:


> at first you need to go through a grieving process and while i think we sit here and know what our men are going through and can imagine how painful it is just as painful for us because we have spent every month for perhaps years wondering if this is the time AF doesnt show up and could it be this month we have lives and breathed getting pregnant for a long time and to suddenly have that taken away from you with a 0 sperm count its such a shock!.........................
> 
> you will cry, your OH will feel like shit, you will come out of appoinments feeling like it was a waste of time and nothing is happening it is a shit time for both of you nobody will understand they will always say dont worry it will happen! but you stay strong for each other, your learn to cope and you just end up agreeing with those ppl who dont have a clue!
> 
> :hug:

Hi Ginger - how are you>? Hope you're doing OK. Reading your comments there was amazing because that is exactly what I think as well. Shows how we are all going through similar things even though we have slightly different situations. :hugs:


----------



## waitingginger

Hi Pink lolly! how are you??

I am fine thanks! i thought i would just be honest and say it how it is lol!! the whole thing is so frustrating!! we have been TTC 2 1/2 years now and have found out last april about the Azoospermia and i can finally say i am in quite a good place at the moment!! even joked to my OH last if we never have any children can we turn the spare room into a walk in wardrobe ha ha!

for those just starting out on the journer our endocronologist who is the doctor who deals with hormone systems did say to OH not to take any vitamins or anything it wont make any difference in an azoospermic man and can effect your hormone levels so the real cause of the azoospermia is missed!! mine always forgot to take his vitamins anyway lol!!


----------



## Deb111

Well we've had some potentially interesting news today. Terry has been to collect his recent blood test results from the Dr's ready for our private specialist. His prolactin is WAAAAY too high! I don't have them in front of me but something like should be under 410 and his is 925 

So, good old google tells me that men with high prolactin levels are likely to be azoospermic and that high prolactin levels are related to hypothyroidism (which Terry has) and that high prolactin levels can be very successfully treated! 

Now we're not getting our hopes up as we're no experts (even though it feels like it sometimes) but I actually feel like we have some possibly really positive news - and this feels like it ould be that missing link that we've always felt has something to do with his thyoid problems / pituitary gland 

Will keep you posted! xx


----------



## waitingginger

Wow deb that is brilliant news!! i have read about prolactin levels too with suspecting W has a paturity gland prob!!! and they can treat it!! is this the first time in the year since you found out that he has had his prolactin tested? i dont think W has ever had his done either!!
xxxx


----------



## Deb111

No he's had his prolactin tested before - but I need to dig out the results to see what they were. I think they may have been slightly high, but nothing this extreme. Mind you they say your blood test results are only as good as your worst level so I guess it's this etreme one that counts


----------



## MariaF

Hi Deb, really good to hear you are having some progress with the test results. Luckily they can treat most hormonal problems quite effectively nowdays. Definitely the high prolactin can be lowered! when's your FS private appointment?


----------



## Deb111

Thanks Maria. We couldn't book our appt until we had the blood test results so I will get onto it tomorrow. It would be wonderful to finally find that missing piece of the jigsaw and to be able to treat it. Trying not to get too excited just yet though ...


----------



## Deb111

Hi girls

Just been doing some research into hubby's high prolactin levels and how it could be affecting our TTC issues.

I thought I'd post some of the info I've found here in case it is of use to anyone else at any point in their journeys


Men can also have *high prolactin levels. Typically, these men have azoospermia , *decreased libido and erectile dysfunction. While this is not common, if diagnosed properly, *it can be very effectively treated with medications !*

The hormone prolactin is generally only thought of as a factor in female infertility, but in fact, prolactin also plays a role in male fertility. If you are suffering from male infertility, you may want to investigate prolactin in order to find out if it may be affecting your reproductive capabilities.

Prolactin is a hormone that is secreted by both men and women. It is released by your pituitary gland, an organ responsible for regulating many of your bodys functions, including reproduction. The pituitary gland is a small, bean-shaped organ located in the middle of your brain. Your pituitary gland releases prolactin on a daily basis, both in the morning and throughout the night. Certain activities like sexual intercourse and exercise also cause your pituitary gland to release prolactin.

Hormones Regulating ProlactinProlactin is actually regulated by other hormones that your body produces. These include:

	dopamine (which blocks prolactin) 
	serotonin ( which triggers prolactin release) 
	*thyroid-producing hormone (which also triggers prolactin) *

Effects on Male Fertility
Like prolactin infertility in women, prolactin can also affect male fertility. In fact, if you have too much prolactin in your blood stream it can cause you to become infertile. 

*High prolactin levels have an adverse affect on the function of your testicles, and can cause decreased testosterone levels *or abnormal sperm. This can cause serious problems when it comes time to conceive. Normal prolactin levels in men are typically less than 15 ng/mL. Elevated prolactin may indicate a condition called hyperprolactinemia, and this could account for your fertility difficulties.

Hyperprolactinemia
You can be diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia when you have more than 15 ng/mL of prolactin in your bloodstream. *Symptoms of excess prolactin are often internal and difficult to see. Symptoms can include:
*	decreased sperm count 
	*hypogonadism (in which your testes do not produce the right amounts of testosterone) 
	decreased sex drive *
	impotence


----------



## waitingginger

oh thats interesting! i have never had a full breakdown of my OHs blood results i think i am going to ask for one now though!! 

I hope they do manage to get to the bottoms of everything for you soon!!! both our OHs got diagnosed in April 10 so i know its been a really long road to get thsi far for you!!
xxxx


----------



## mumanddad

Well oh has handed his 5 th test in today role on the 26th for the results. ... I dont want to wait :(


----------



## babysoldier

Hi ladies. Someone gave me a link to this thread because I am new to bnb.

My hubby got his SA results back today.. The count came back as zero. He has to do another one, doc said its just to be sure. He told me this morning and I havent stopped crying yet. But Im trying to be strong for him because he feels guilty coz he thinks hes let me down which he shouldnt feel, we are in this together and have been for 2years ttc. 

I just need somewhere to vent. Some ladies in the same boat because I dont want to make him feel worse than he already does.

Thankyou 

x

ps. what does azoospermia acctually mean? And does anyone know if it can be reversed?


----------



## mumanddad

Hello sorry you are going through this too my oh feels so bad about this too..

He has been given an option to have an operation to make sure there is no sperm hiding away..

Azoospermia can be just because of a blockage..

My oh has been reading about it loads and has realised he is now not the only person in the world to suffer from this.


Have they taken blood tests yet as they will test the chromozones (sorry about spelling)?

I hope this was just a dud test for you hun x


----------



## waitingginger

hi baby soldier.

and welcome to the thread although i wish you didnt have to be here!
Azoospermia is the complete lack of sperm in the semen.

There can be lots or reasons and they will investigate them all:
-blockage
-mumps
- undescended testicles
- genetic disorders e.g Kallmans etc
- hormone function
- paturity gland malfunction
-steriods

these are just some off the top of my head! you may want to do some google searching!!
Has you hubby ever had any problems such as undecended testicles, cancer or mumps?

I am really sorry your going through this and it is a grieving process and it will be really hard for you just as much as your hubby!! at first you think it will never get any easier and it prob gets worse before it gets better but it does get easier!!

probably next you will get referred to the fertility clinic they will do blood tests and ultrasound scans and prob more SA samples and then go from there!!

I hope you can read back and see the others posts from us all and see hoe our journeys have developed!!

we are all here to talk to


----------



## babysoldier

I'm so glad I joined this forum. I really did think we were alone. Now I know we arent it makes me feel a little better (not that i wish this on anyone!!). 
Ive just emailed your reply to dh as he is in work on cerimonial today and it has made him feel better too. 
Does anyone know if there are any sites like this one for men? Coz I know that men are a bit funny with talking about things like this and I thought well if I have people to talk to here, then surely there must be something for the men?!

xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

babysoldier said:


> Hi ladies. Someone gave me a link to this thread because I am new to bnb.
> 
> My hubby got his SA results back today.. The count came back as zero. He has to do another one, doc said its just to be sure. He told me this morning and I havent stopped crying yet. But Im trying to be strong for him because he feels guilty coz he thinks hes let me down which he shouldnt feel, we are in this together and have been for 2years ttc.
> 
> I just need somewhere to vent. Some ladies in the same boat because I dont want to make him feel worse than he already does.
> 
> Thankyou
> 
> x
> 
> ps. what does azoospermia acctually mean? And does anyone know if it can be reversed?

Hi Baby Soldier,

Welcome to the group - sorry to read about your hubbies SA. We all know exactly how you feel, it is a devestating situation to find yourself in. Ginger is right,it does get easier, although I think the whole journey is a bit of an emotional rollercoaster!

You will get loads of support from all of the girls here xx


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## Deb111

Hi Baby Soldier and welcome

So sorry to hear your news :hugs:

This site has been a god-send to me and to be able to chat with other people going through exactly the same is so helpful - ok, it's fairly possible that you could happen to know or meet someone face to face who has had IVF, but to meet someone face to face dealing with azoospermia is very unlikely. Unfortunately, people who haven't been through it are likely to make the usual "oh there's always IVF" comments but I guess it's a pretty uncommon thing so we can't expect them to understand.

I really hope your hubby's second SA gives you some positive news but if further investigations are needed, then we can, between us, give you a list of things to make sure get checked. Are you using NHS? One thing I was told was to check if they centrifuge the SA as this can sometimes identify the odd sperm that may otherwise have gone unnoticed.

As Ginger said, take some time to read through this thread if you get a chance. I know how confusing it all seems right now, and you should shout, cry, scream - do whatever you need to at the moment, because it sucks! but you will pick yourself up before long and you will find the motivation to do what it takes to fulfill your dream of having a baby together and in the meantime, we're all here to support you.

As for a men's forum, I'm not aware of one, but will post a message to the admin team and see if they could set one up - I think it would be great if our men could share some stories and give each other some support

Deb xx


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## Deb111

I found a couple of sites - this one has quite a lot of helpful info on, but not a very active men's forum - https://www.mensfe.net/

This one seems to be pretty active - I don't think it's a men's forum specifically, but there seem a lot of men posting https://www.fertilichat.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

I will see if I can get hubby to sign up and set up a thread and I will post the link if anyone else interested


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## Deb111

I've got hubby to set up a thread on this site if anyone's hubby's / partners want to share info or chat about azoospermia

https://www.fertilichat.com/showthread.php?p=588539#post588539

Hope they'll drop in and have a natter! :coffee:

*EDIT : ACTUALLY THINK I HAVE FOUND ONE WHICH MIGHT BE BETTER - WILL POST LINK TO THREAD TOMORROW*


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## babysoldier

Aw Deb, You are AMAZING!!
Omg! I just clicked on that link, and have you seen the first reply? How supportive! (NOT) What an idiot!

Thankyou for your first msg aswell.. You are a very supportive lady and it made me sad that my only support network is virtual... I live a very long way from my family and friends and everything I know and have found it hard settling.. I am originally from Wales and, everything is just so different (Theres not many sheep here!!! haha) JOKESSS I have to take the mick outta myself lol...
Seriously though, thankyou, all of you.

Im off to cook a beef roast now... yummmm

xx


----------



## april4jdg

I am sorry, I have been crazy busy with work... Well, our 2nd iui got cancelled, because of the Clomid that I took last month- made me have 4 cysts on my right ovary that were all over 1 cm...so I have to sit out this cycle. I was so upset. But, what can you do? We start over next month with the donor - iui and see what happens... it is so frustrating!


----------



## Deb111

babysoldier said:


> Aw Deb, You are AMAZING!!
> Omg! I just clicked on that link, and have you seen the first reply? How supportive! (NOT) What an idiot!
> 
> Thankyou for your first msg aswell.. You are a very supportive lady and it made me sad that my only support network is virtual... I live a very long way from my family and friends and everything I know and have found it hard settling.. I am originally from Wales and, everything is just so different (Theres not many sheep here!!! haha) JOKESSS I have to take the mick outta myself lol...
> Seriously though, thankyou, all of you.
> 
> Im off to cook a beef roast now... yummmm
> 
> xx

Well I was going to ask admin here to see if they could set something up and then I thought our men may prefer not to be on the same site as us so they feel they can maybe be more open with each other.

Waiting for hubby to access link from his email when he gets in and I will get link posted here. Yes I did see that reply - which is why I thought I'd look for something better! :winkwink: I guess it will develop into whatever our guys want it to develop into - support? info sharing? Will get onto him when he gets in :coffee:

I know what you mean about the virtual support, but actually I think it's possibly the best support ever once you get into it - these are real people who know EXACTLY what you are going through. My mum is very supportive as are a few of my friends, but they don't truly understand and you get to a point where you think "I can't keep going on at them about it all - they will get fed up of hearing about it" but I've never felt that on here - there's always someone who's going through it all with you or who's been through it before

Hope you're managing to have a good weekend xx


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## Deb111

april4jdg said:


> I am sorry, I have been crazy busy with work... Well, our 2nd iui got cancelled, because of the Clomid that I took last month- made me have 4 cysts on my right ovary that were all over 1 cm...so I have to sit out this cycle. I was so upset. But, what can you do? We start over next month with the donor - iui and see what happens... it is so frustrating!

Sorry to hear that April - I hope you are physically feeling ok?

Keeping everything crossed for your next cycle xx


----------



## Deb111

Firstly I apologise for the long post or if I've already said some of this after our last appt - but it's always good to keep a record of it all 

- Terry's oestradiol is within normal limits but he feels this could be pushed down further and this will help

- His testosterone is still slightly low - so he wants to get his body to increase this naturally through the use of medication rather than just giving him testosterone. He says even a slight increase will help. I think I mentioned last time that he said that whatever level of testosterone shows up in the blood test; there is 10 or more times that amount in the testicles

- His FSH is slightly raised @ 17.5 and says this is the body's way of trying to get the testes to produce more sperm. His own body has only raised it slightly (I read that high prolactin will suppress FSH so will have stopped it pushing itself as high as it should be able to) but he wants to force it up to about 30

- He says the high prolactin is significantly high and it is very important to get this down

Whilst he can make suggestions about how to do all of the above, he wants Terry to see an endocrinologist next as he will have a much better knowledge of how all these hormone inbalances are affecting each other. We've seen an endo before, but now we have this high prolactin level, there should be a lot more that can be done

He says the endo will want to do an MRI scan to check what's going on with the pituitary gland but says it's probably just a harmless microadenoma if anything

Slightly disappointingly, he was pretty definitie about the fact that he feels natural pregnancy still cannot occur as the effects of high prolactin (in terms of getting back to normal sperm count) can take a year or two to undo and we don't have that time to wait and also the fact that the testicular biopsy wasn't normal suggest there will still be issues with there only being pockets of sperm - although trying naturally once hormones are treated can't hurt!

So our plan of action now is ...

1) Book appt with GP to get referral to endo in Coventry who mentions some of his specialist interests as being "thyroid, hypogonadism and androgen replacement" - sounds pretty good to me!

2) Have appt with endo to discuss hormones, medication and have an MRI scan and get some conclusions from him

3) When we have conclusions and a treatment plan from him, we have to go back to see "The Ram Man" who may add some other meds

4) 6 weeks after starting an meds he has to go back to GP and have blood tests re-done

5) Once we have blood test results, we have to go back to see "The Ram Man" and discuss results and Terry has to provide a sperm sample. If there are any found they will freeze them there and then

6) Then a further 6 weeks on meds and probably get me ready for ICSI so that when I'm ready for EC, they will get Terry to provide a fresh sample and use anything decent they find in that. If nothing or nothing any good, they will thaw any they found in SA (if anything was there in first place) and if all else fails, they will do microTESE there and then

So he said approx 18 weeks ahead from endo appt is the soonest things could be really happening in terms of microTESE / ICSI

But he said - it's all looking really good and these blood test results are definitely good news!


----------



## babysoldier

Oh Deb! Its brilliant that things are coming along! It may take a while but hey! At least its getting done! 
Your doc sounds amazing!! 
I can see why your able to give such good advice!! I just wish I knew enough to give you some words... All I can say is.. Im glad you found the strength to keep going, and as far as I can see... you're nearly there :) :flower:


Sorry to hear iui got cancelled April... :hugs:
xx


----------



## Deb111

Still waiting for that other site to approve hubby's membership so he can post men's thread - but haven't forgotten :thumbup:

I was thinking, as I'm on school hols and have a bit more time, *please let me know of anything that needs updating on first page - any dates of appts / scans / tests etc - especially the newbies *


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## mumanddad

Ooo we are getting matts sa results on the 26th april and also seeing the fs x 


hope you ladies are ok, i have had alot of tears today :(


----------



## ArmyWifey

Iv got an appt for you to add.. here goes...
Soo, before we had dh results my doctor booked me in for an ultrasound because he thinks i may be pregnant.. anyway.. i called him when hubs got sa back and told him the bad news and he said well still go on friday to see whats going on with you not only may i be pregnant but it may be a case that they see if theres anything wrong because i 'look' and 'feel' pregnant... me thinky phantom pregnancy coz i want it that bad haha, that would be my luck.. i didnt want to say anything coz everytime i say anything about anything i jynx it lol.. i just didnt want you all to be like woah if i am.. fx though.. praying one little sucker got through

Hope everyones ok

Xx


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## Deb111

Wow! - how confusing for you! Have you taken a pregnancy test? Did your hubby's SA come back with low sperm count or none at all?


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## Pink Lolly

Deb - could you update the front page with my appt -

First IVF consultation - 24th May! :happydance:


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## Nayla82

Hi Ladies :hi:

Sorry I have not been in this Thread for a while! Since I started my Journal i tend to type my heart and soul away in there! wow it seems like alot has happened and a few new names, hope your stay will be short :hugs:

As many of you know my story , Dec 2010 Zero sperms than husband was on Clomid which gave him a count of 2.5 Million (miracle indeed! but ALOT of abnormal ones so ICSI had to be the way Forward)

Did ICSI last Month and it Failed :cry: Few days back had a scan i have a HUGE 5cm cyst on my Right Ovary which covered the full screen I was shocked as i have never had cysts before :shrug: (I was told very normal after failed IVF'S) Im hoping to start again soon [-o&lt; This depends on the Cyst and if it goes or shrinks below 3cm?? she said it can take up to 8 weeks :shrug: It feels like one drama after the other.... 

I so hope we all get there in the end :hugs:

Congratulations on the Pregnant ones, and GOOD LUCK to everyone where ever you are in this Journey :hugs:


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## loobylou_01

[/ATTACH]Bump picture as requested by Jo and Deb. This is today, 40wk + 1. Feeling very ready to pop!!
 



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## Deb111

Gorgeous bump Linzie :thumbup: Can't wait to 'meet' your little one! :hugs::kiss:


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## mumanddad

Well ladies we found out tuesday matts testicals have started failing his fsh hormone is 15 i think that was the right hormone and apprently nothing can stop them failing :(

he has agreed to hve a minor op to see if there are any immature sperm in there they can save, has anyone else gone through this??? X


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## Deb111

mumanddad said:


> Well ladies we found out tuesday matts testicals have started failing his fsh hormone is 15 i think that was the right hormone and apprently nothing can stop them failing :(
> 
> he has agreed to hve a minor op to see if there are any immature sperm in there they can save, has anyone else gone through this??? X

Presumably they're talking about Surgical Sperm Retrieval hun and presumably you're with the NHS? Hubby had this, as have a few other dh's on this thread.

Firstly, try not to panic and please don't take anything I'm saying here as 'gospel'. I can only tell you about our circumstances and I don't want to get your hopes up - and of course there may be other results that are telling your FS this, BUT ...

Normal FSH for a man is between 2 and 12 - my hubby's is 17

We've been told that a man's body will increase the FSH to try and drive sperm production if it is not happening properly. Our NHS specialist has seen levels of 30 ish and still found sperm to retrieve!

Our new private urologist says that there is something stopping hubby's body pushing it up as high as it could - we've been told that 17 is not really 'that high' - with my hubby his prolactin level is more than double what it should be and we've been told this will be inhibitting the FSH form increasing and in turn increasing the sperm production. He has also said that there are various medications like Clomid and HCG will help to elevate the FSH.

Do you have a note of other blood test results that have been done on your dh?


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## Deb111

And what time were the blood test taken?


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## mumanddad

They wouldnt print the results off for us but i thought his testosterone was low but she said it was fine.

Also she has booked us in with the head consultant and he will do more tests...
He found a lump when i was pregnant he had it checked and they said it was a cyst but its stil there so om wondering if it did any damage.

All his other tests were normal and this test colour and thickness was normal but last one was to thick with mucus.

She didnt even offer us any thing like a hcg or clomid.

Yes it is with the nhs.


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## mumanddad

O he did his blood test around lunch time and last sa test at 10:30 x


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## Deb111

Sorry for rant coming up ... but it makes me so mad the way the NHS treat people. To them we're just a number, not someone who's desperately trying for something really precious. I'm going to PM you x


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## snd80

Might as well add me to your list...:cry: 

I'm 30 and my hubby is fixing to be 34, and we just found out Dec. 2010 that he has end stage kidney failure and had to be put on dialysis. We have been "trying" for 10 years. The first 5 years NTNP, but serious these past 5 years. We finally went to our first joint appt. 4/19. Me= traces of PCOS on U/S and blood work picture perfect. My hubby did his SA on 4/28. I went to order my OPKs this past thurs, and decided to call and check on his results before spending that $40. I was FLOORED when she told me zero count! I died inside!!!! I kinda thought it was him cause I do ovulate and have reg. periods, but never thought it would be zero! I had an appt. to go back this coming Tues for all the checkups, but canceled it Fri in my emotional fit b/c there was no point in spending more money for nothing! Right? Now I wish I hadn't. I've got so many questions. I haven't slept much since Thurs and have done nothing but cry and cry... I just feel like I have been gutted. Glad to have found this forum for support!


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## Deb111

Welcome snd80 - I'm so sorry you've had to join us and been given this news, but glad that you've found us :hugs: This is a fantastic, supportive group of women who know so much of what you're going through.

Take some time to grieve, because that is what you're likely to be feeling right now - if nothing else; grief that having a baby is not likely to be like you've always imagined. Scream, shout, cry, get it out of your systyem and then take some time to read through our stories on here when you get a chance. I promise you, it will give you hope and the strength to get out there and get on with whatever your next step is.

I would suggest that you get a notepad and pen and write down any questions that pop into your head for when you see your FS - I'm sure you will have things to add to your list once you have read through this thread too.

Get your appointment re-booked hun so that you have something to work towards.

Keep in touch
Deb x :hugs:


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## loobylou_01

Hi Girls!

Thought it was about time I got on here and updated you all with what has been going on! Suffice to say we have a beautiful baby boy!

Went to bed as usual last Saturday night and was woken at 1am as my waters broke! Contractions were suddenly coming every 3 minutes! Got to hospital at 2am, contractions now every 1 1/2 mins, and anyway baby b was delivered at 05.37 Sunday (1st may) morning!!!!

Gorgeous gorgeous little boy, Owen Leslie (named after our grandad's), and a little porker at 8lb 8oz!! Labour was very fast and bloody hurt! but it was well worth it! Managed with gas and air and one shot of diamorphine! Unfortunately got a 2nd degree tear seen as he was so big and in such a rush! so got an internal stitch and 5 outer stitches - feeling a little bruised but overall very good! 

And we came home the same day and he's doing really well. Feeding well and we are both over the moon, he's currently snuggled up with his daddy on the sofa, who hasn't stopped grinning since he arrived! And he didn't come through unscathed - he has massive bruises to his hand from where i was squeezing it during labour!

So it's amazing that we finally have our much wanted and special little baby. It is absolutely amazing and I hope that we all get a happy ending eventually.

He is worth every single bit of pain and heart ache and all the horrible tests and invasions that we have experienced over the last 3 years. 

Wishing you all loads of luck on your journeys xxxxx


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## Deb111

Lovely to hear from you hun and hear that you're all doing so well. What a quick labour! 

I will update the front page.

Look after yourselves xx :hugs:
 



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## Flake-y

Congratulations Linzie!!! Brilliant to hear your birth story & glad everything went so well! Looking forward to seeing the next set of fb piccies of Owen!!!!!!!!


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## Pink Lolly

snd80 - So sorry to hear your news - it is a horrible situation to have to deal with, but one that unfortunately we all know very well :nope:

The initial shock is unbreable but it does get a bit easier - although it is a rollercoaster all the way! There are a few of us on here all at different stages and with slightly different situations so you'll find lots of support here :hugs:


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## Pink Lolly

Congratulations Linzie 
:happydance: :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Owen is absolutely gorgeous and it is so nice to see a happy ending azoospermia story! The birth sounds like it was really quick but that was probably good because I think you had waited long enough to get your adorable little :baby:

Hopefully there will be lots more happy endings on this thread soon! xxx


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## snd80

Pink Lolly said:


> snd80 - So sorry to hear your news - it is a horrible situation to have to deal with, but one that unfortunately we all know very well :nope:
> 
> The initial shock is unbreable but it does get a bit easier - although it is a rollercoaster all the way! There are a few of us on here all at different stages and with slightly different situations so you'll find lots of support here :hugs:

Thank you hon. I am getting better day by day. Mother's Day was REALLY hard, but I think I have most of my crying out of my system and am ready to move on to plan B... 

Hubby and I talked about all options over the weekend. He really doesn't want to go to the uroligist and have his junk handled or cut on. And I'm like, it's OK for me to have _my_ junk fondled and poked and pryed on, but not you? So, I have given him a year to figure out what he wants to do. I told him that this time next year I was going forward with or without him, his choice! Looks like it's going to be the donor route since we can't afford the ICSI or IVF, even if he wasn't being so selfish and stubborn about the uroligist. In the mean time we are going to continue going to the gym and working on our weight loss. I guess in the back of my mind I'm hoping for a miracle if we lose the weight...

I went back to the Dr. this morning and he went ahead and gave me a low dose of Metformin for my PCOS and insulin resistance and go back in a month for them to up the dosage. I told him I wanted to go forward and get my body ready for the next step, whatever that might be! Then he offered me a low dose BCP!!! I laughed, and was like for what? No thank you! That's why I am as big as I am now!

Sorry for such a long post, but wanted to thank each of you for listening and the support!!! I has really helped my state of mind! :hugs:


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## waitingginger

now i dont normally watch jeremy kyle but i was in the gym and title was 'why cant we have a baby? fertility test results' so came home and put it on itv+1 hour and looks like its male feritlity issues.... just waiting on results....


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## waitingginger

it was a low sperm count came back at 13million. trying for 5 years and still no baby! doctor said under 10million sperm would take on average 6 years. 15 million would take around 3 years!! well that was actually very interesting!!! x


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## Flake-y

Gosh most of the girls on this thread would be quite pleased to have a sperm count of 13 million! Or even 1 million for that matter!!! Love Jeremy Kyle!


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## waitingginger

I know was very shocked at the average years and here i am thinking it only takes one! if 10 million takes 6 years god knows how long it would take one:wacko:


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## chelenic

Hello

My husband was diagnosed with Azoospermia last year. i really want to give you some hope and encouragement.

I am now on day 20 of my first IVF cycle!!!!

I know sometimes it seems so scary and at times we felt hopeless but I wanted to share our journey with you because it may give you hope.

I know when we got this news we didnt know where to turn to find hope.

I have been lurking on here now for a few years. I have recently started a channel on You Tube so that I could reach out to others going through this and see if I can help them and also to show the injections etc.

If you go on you tube and search chelenic you will find me

I thought I would put a reply on here incase you wanted to check out my channel as you may find it useful. I went on youtube a lot before i started so that i could see what others were feeling and how to do injections and side effects etc.

I have had a good response so far and have made a lot of nice friends who are going through this jorurney, they have given me advice and I have been able to give it too. 

If you would like to look, please feel free, i will help in anyway I can.

Here is a brief outline of how we got here.......

Andy and I married in May 2008.
We immediately began trying for a baby.
We tried naturally for about a year with no success so I went to the GP for tests.
I had blood tests and they all came back ok. The GP would not test anything further with me until they ruled out any problems with Andy by doing a semen analysis.
It took some months to convince Andy to go for tests, he has since said that he was delaying it as he was so worried about the outcome.
Andy's results came back showing there was 0 sperm in his 
semen. This condition is known as Azoospermia.
They then performed an ultrasound on Andy.
We were told at this point that we would not be able to have children together, this was devastating.
Meanwhile I had a HSG, where dye is flushed through the fallopian tubes to check for blockages. This came back fine,
We were then referred for IVF in September 2010.
We had various consultations and were due to start IVF in November/December 2010.
We went to our co-ordination appointment and at this point were told that Andy tested positive as being a carrier for Cystic Fybrosis and that this would most likely be the cause of his Azoospermia, non-obstructive Azoospermia.
The IVF cycl was then put on hold as they had to test me for Cystic Fybrosis. If both partners carry the gene there is a high risk of their child having Cystic Fybrosis. This was a worrying time as this could have meant again that we wouldnt be able to proceed with the IVF due to the high risk factor if I was also a carrier.
I had a blood test and we waited two weeks for the results, thankfully I was not showing as a carrier. They only check 23 parts of the gene as there are hundreds of different mutations but they considered us low risk as it suggested I didn't carry the gene.
They concluded then also that Andy's Azoospermia was attributed to the absence of the Vas Defrens.
We were given the go ahead to proceed with IVF.
On 14th February 2011 Andy had a surgical sperm retrieval proceedure, hoping they could find some sperm to freeze so that we could have the IVF.
They found loads!!! This was the best news ever!!!
I started my Buserelin injections for our first cycle on 28th April 2011......and here we are now at day 20 of injections. This is my 2nd day of the GonalF, Stimulation injections.
So far the side affects i have are achy, bloated tummy and a bit of nausea, and some hot flushes.

Thank you for reading and if I can help in any way, I am so so happy to do so.

Babydust to you!!! xxxxxxx


----------



## Pink Lolly

chelenic said:


> Hello
> 
> My husband was diagnosed with Azoospermia last year. i really want to give you some hope and encouragement.
> 
> I am now on day 20 of my first IVF cycle!!!!
> 
> I know sometimes it seems so scary and at times we felt hopeless but I wanted to share our journey with you because it may give you hope.
> 
> I know when we got this news we didnt know where to turn to find hope.
> 
> I have been lurking on here now for a few years. I have recently started a channel on You Tube so that I could reach out to others going through this and see if I can help them and also to show the injections etc.
> 
> If you go on you tube and search chelenic you will find me
> 
> I thought I would put a reply on here incase you wanted to check out my channel as you may find it useful. I went on youtube a lot before i started so that i could see what others were feeling and how to do injections and side effects etc.
> 
> I have had a good response so far and have made a lot of nice friends who are going through this jorurney, they have given me advice and I have been able to give it too.
> 
> If you would like to look, please feel free, i will help in anyway I can.
> 
> Here is a brief outline of how we got here.......
> 
> Andy and I married in May 2008.
> We immediately began trying for a baby.
> We tried naturally for about a year with no success so I went to the GP for tests.
> I had blood tests and they all came back ok. The GP would not test anything further with me until they ruled out any problems with Andy by doing a semen analysis.
> It took some months to convince Andy to go for tests, he has since said that he was delaying it as he was so worried about the outcome.
> Andy's results came back showing there was 0 sperm in his
> semen. This condition is known as Azoospermia.
> They then performed an ultrasound on Andy.
> We were told at this point that we would not be able to have children together, this was devastating.
> Meanwhile I had a HSG, where dye is flushed through the fallopian tubes to check for blockages. This came back fine,
> We were then referred for IVF in September 2010.
> We had various consultations and were due to start IVF in November/December 2010.
> We went to our co-ordination appointment and at this point were told that Andy tested positive as being a carrier for Cystic Fybrosis and that this would most likely be the cause of his Azoospermia, non-obstructive Azoospermia.
> The IVF cycl was then put on hold as they had to test me for Cystic Fybrosis. If both partners carry the gene there is a high risk of their child having Cystic Fybrosis. This was a worrying time as this could have meant again that we wouldnt be able to proceed with the IVF due to the high risk factor if I was also a carrier.
> I had a blood test and we waited two weeks for the results, thankfully I was not showing as a carrier. They only check 23 parts of the gene as there are hundreds of different mutations but they considered us low risk as it suggested I didn't carry the gene.
> They concluded then also that Andy's Azoospermia was attributed to the absence of the Vas Defrens.
> We were given the go ahead to proceed with IVF.
> On 14th February 2011 Andy had a surgical sperm retrieval proceedure, hoping they could find some sperm to freeze so that we could have the IVF.
> They found loads!!! This was the best news ever!!!
> I started my Buserelin injections for our first cycle on 28th April 2011......and here we are now at day 20 of injections. This is my 2nd day of the GonalF, Stimulation injections.
> So far the side affects i have are achy, bloated tummy and a bit of nausea, and some hot flushes.
> 
> Thank you for reading and if I can help in any way, I am so so happy to do so.
> 
> Babydust to you!!! xxxxxxx

Hi Chelenic

Thank you for sharing your story - great news that they found loads of sperm when they did the SSR!

We found out that my DH had azoospermia on 19th November last year and like you we were devestated. We have our first IVF consultation next week, which I am excoited about but DH has not yet had an SSR so I'm a bit nervous about that and anxious to find out whether we can use DHs sperm or if we need to use a donor.

Its funny how your DH avoided having the SA because he was scared - mine was exactly the same and put it off for ages. When we were in the waiting room waiting to get his first SA results, he was so nervous and said 'I just hope there is some sperm in there....' and I said 'Dont be silly, at the worst it will be low...' 
If only I knew at that point what lay ahead. Its weird though - almost like their subconscious told them something was wrong?

Good luck with your IVF - hope you get a well deserved :bfp: - keep us posted! And great news to read about the You Tube section you have started. I am constantly trawling the internet and know this site has been a lifesaver 

Take care and keep in touch xxxx


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## Pink Lolly

Flake-y said:


> Gosh most of the girls on this thread would be quite pleased to have a sperm count of 13 million! Or even 1 million for that matter!!! Love Jeremy Kyle!

I agree Jo - we would be on :cloud9: if they found 13 sperms let alone 13 million!!


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## Pink Lolly

waitingginger said:


> now i dont normally watch jeremy kyle but i was in the gym and title was 'why cant we have a baby? fertility test results' so came home and put it on itv+1 hour and looks like its male feritlity issues.... just waiting on results....

Amy how are you? Havent seen you on here for a while x


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## Flake-y

Chelenic; thanks for sharing your story! Lots of luck for your IVF cycle, hope it is first time lucky for you!!!


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## april4jdg

I am getting a d-iui today. DH is coming with me. I have done Follistim (I think y'all call it Puregon overseas) 75 iu's cd 4-9 and triggered with Ovidrel cd 10 at 10:30 pm and I have my d-iui today at 10:30 am... I hope this works!
I have been thinking about y'all- Looks like lots of new faces here! : )


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## mumanddad

chelenic said:


> Hello
> 
> My husband was diagnosed with Azoospermia last year. i really want to give you some hope and encouragement.
> 
> I am now on day 20 of my first IVF cycle!!!!
> 
> I know sometimes it seems so scary and at times we felt hopeless but I wanted to share our journey with you because it may give you hope.
> 
> I know when we got this news we didnt know where to turn to find hope.
> 
> I have been lurking on here now for a few years. I have recently started a channel on You Tube so that I could reach out to others going through this and see if I can help them and also to show the injections etc.
> 
> If you go on you tube and search chelenic you will find me
> 
> I thought I would put a reply on here incase you woanted to check out my channel as you may find it useful. I went on youtube a lot before i started so that i could see what others were feeling and how to do injections and side effects etc.
> 
> I have had a good response so far and have made ia lot of nice friends who are going through this jorurney, they have given me advice and I have been able to give it too.
> 
> If you would like to look, please feel free, i will help in anyway I can.
> 
> Here is a brief outline of how we got here.......
> 
> Andy and I married in May 2008.
> We immediately began trying for a baby.
> We tried naturally for about a year with no success so I went to the GP for tests.
> I had blood tests and they all came back ok. The GP would not test anything further with me until they ruled out any problems with Andy by doing a semen analysis.
> It took some months to convince Andy to go for tests, he has since said that he was delaying it as he was so worried about the outcome.
> Andy's results came back showing there was 0 sperm in his
> semen. This condition is known as Azoospermia.
> They then performed an ultrasound on Andy.
> We were told at this point that we would not be able to have children together, this was devastating.
> Meanwhile I had a HSG, where dye is flushed through the fallopian tubes to check for blockages. This came back fine,
> We were then referred for IVF in September 2010.
> We had various consultations and were due to start IVF in November/December 2010.
> We went to our co-ordination appointment and at this point were told that Andy tested positive as being a carrier for Cystic Fybrosis and that this would most likely be the cause of his Azoospermia, non-obstructive Azoospermia.
> The IVF cycl was then put on hold as they had to test me for Cystic Fybrosis. If both partners carry the gene there is a high risk of their child having Cystic Fybrosis. This was a worrying time as this could have meant again that we wouldnt be able to proceed with the IVF due to the high risk factor if I was also a carrier.
> I had a blood test and we waited two weeks for the results, thankfully I was not showing as a carrier. They only check 23 parts of the gene as there are hundreds of different mutations but they considered us low risk as it suggested I didn't carry the gene.
> They concluded then also that Andy's Azoospermia was attributed to the absence of the Vas Defrens.
> We were given the go ahead to proceed with IVF.
> On 14th February 2011 Andy had a surgical sperm retrieval proceedure, hoping they could find some sperm to freeze so that we could have the IVF.
> They found loads!!! This was the best news ever!!!
> I started my Buserelin injections for our first cycle on 28th April 2011......and here we are now at day 20 of injections. This is my 2nd day of the GonalF, Stimulation injections.
> So far the side affects i have are achy, bloated tummy and a bit of nausea, and some hot flushes.
> 
> Thank you for reading and if I can help in any way, I am so so happy to do so.
> 
> Babydust to you!!! xxxxxxx

Thankyou for sharing with us my other has just had a read and his words where see the doctors where wrong there

(they told him on the sperm retrival op the would probably not find anything just to low hormones) so he is thinking more positve as he reads each success story xxx


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## Deb111

Thanks so much for sharing chelenic. Good luck with your cycle :thumbup:

Sorry I've been MIA a bit lately - not been an easy time

Great to hear your news april - have updated the front page. Keep us posted xx


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## waitingginger

Thanks for sharing chelenic! really good to hear your story! i hope you get your BFP very soon!
April good luck for you too!!

Pink Lolly, i have been a bit absent lately think more because we are just still waiting OH had to give bloods and SAs every 2 months so they can get a better idea of hormone levels and see if SA changes and its not due to be reviewed until september i think!! so just in a state of limbo waiting! although i am so chilled out about it at the minute i thought i would never get to this point! still a bit angry we have been fobbed off with monitoring for 6 months but cant wait to go back in see nothing has changed and be like see i told you! now can you help us please?

Hope everyone else is ok?

Deb, you seem down? everythign ok there?
xx


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## Deb111

Can't remember what my last update was on here, but hubby's prolactin was found to be very high which seemed to be the missing link that linked the azoospermia, his underactive thyroid and his low testosterone. 

We saw an endocrinologist to try and sort it out and he retested and his prolactin was back well within normal limits - so frustrating! High prolactin can be treated and should at least have made some improvement. Hubby is having an MRI for our peace of mind just to double check the pituitary gland as that is what deals with the prolactin. So that's booked for Monday, but I'm not very hopeful. 

I think I'm struggling with not knowing what the cause of the azoospermia is -probably naively, but I kind of feel if we know the cause, we can do something to help :shrug:

And in addition to the TTC stuff and the total lack of any :sex: (due to low testosterone so the urologist and endo say) and his redundancy, he's just becoming more distant and 'shut off' from me. I think it's hard for men - we come on here and have a rant or have a cry on a friend's shoulder, but the men (well mine at least) make out that they're dealing with it fine, but I guess it shows itself in other ways .

Thanks for the concern xx


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## waitingginger

so sorry your having a hard time of it Deb!! have they not spoke to you about seeing if injections will work? 
i can imagine it must be hard not knowing why, we are in the same boat, but you will get there in the end. they will find a reason and will be able to help. in someways maybe naively i think its better because atleast my OH hasnt been diagnosed with a genetic disorder or something and its a definate for no bio children you know what i mean? 
there is still some hope there thats injections or something will work!!
xx


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## Deb111

Thanks Amy :hugs:

Well the urologist is looking at maybe something like HCG / clomid or arimadex to try and boost things naturally - I think the HCG would be injections, but in terms of the testosterone itself, they can't just give him artificial testosterone as this would cause 'negative feedback' and would make his body think that it had enough testosterone and would therefore shut down the production of any naturally which would mean no sperm whatsoever.

So he has his MRI tomorrow and hopefully results within a couple of days and then maybe medication if there is a problem with the pituitary gland, which should help to regulate things a bit and then back to the urologist for the clomid etc maybe?


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## WANBMUM

Hi guys, 
We are currently in the process of getting some answers. I tried to have a quick glance through alllllll these pages but......
Do any of you have experience of your OH's going for an ultrasound and what to expect? 
Is it generally an abdominal or scrotum ultrasound? they also mentioned something being inserted in the penis. 
I would be grateful if you gave an insight/ experience shared. 
X


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## mumanddad

Im gutted i have just found out my oh has been putting a brave face on and is unsure if he wants children now :( is this depression do you think i try talking to him but he clams up

i found him sitting in the bath crying last night this azoospermia has alot to bloody answer for :((


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## Deb111

Hi Wanbmum

Welcome to the group. My hubby never had an ultrasound, but I am sure someone else here will be able to help you - just wanted to say hi. Keep us posted on your progress :hugs:

MumandDad - I'm so sorry to hear this - I would say it could be depression / shock. Would he talk to a counsellor? Our clinic had an excellent one that I saw but hubby said he didn't need to :shrug:

By the way, I know I mentioned about a support group for our men, but I have got hubby to sign up for a couple and the approval from the admin staff has never come through! I will keep looking xx


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## snd80

mumanddad said:


> Im gutted i have just found out my oh has been putting a brave face on and is unsure if he wants children now :( is this depression do you think i try talking to him but he clams up
> 
> i found him sitting in the bath crying last night this azoospermia has alot to bloody answer for :((

I'm sorry doll. Mine won't even go to the uroligist to see what the problem is, so your's has gone further than mine has! I'm sure it has to be a pride issue, but still doesn't help _us_ out! :sex: has become obsolete in my house since we found out... IDK what to make of it. All we can do is give them space and see what the future holds. The only thing that keeps me going is the thought that in one year to the date I will have lost this weight and PCOS (HOPEFULLY!) and can go forward with IUI through donor. Weither he wants to be part of it or not, that is MY plan! 10 years has been long enough for me... Hope things come together for you soon! :hugs:


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## snd80

Deb111, thanks for all your support and advice for all of us and hope things get brighter your way hon!!! You are ONE AWESOME LADY! :hugs:


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## mumanddad

Yeh its scarse in my house too. Im struggling to loose my last two stone aswell :(

Im hoping he will come round soon


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## WANBMUM

Thanks Debs, yes hopefully somebody can give me an idea. :)

MumandDad - your poor OH, it is so shit having to deal with this, but we can only guess what our OH's are really truly going through. 
It sounds to me like your OH is saying he doesnt want kids as a way of coping, I am sure it is just a stage he is going through and it will pass when he can cope better.
My OH sperm tests have come back with no sperm, a scan showed nothing definate so the ultrasound is the next step. He has gone from ignoring there is an issue, pretending nothing is going on, to feeling down, being angry (at me sometimes) to researching and looking to the future. It really is a journey, as cheesey as that sounds. 
x


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## waitingginger

Hi Deb, Yep they have mentioned HCG to us too but i just dont know why they havent given us an ultrasound! how are they to know its not something like a tumour! how did your ultrasound go?

Hi WANBMUM, my oh had an ultrasound, i wasnt allowed in (god knows why- his poor little face when he found he had to go on his own :() anyways its was an ultrasound scan of testicles and the bit above the willy (what on earth is that called? lol) its to check for the grain of the testicled and size etc. i know that they do touch your willy a bit and move it around and out of the way. OH said he had to hold it up out of the way with a paper towel and he felt lik an idiot whilst this women 'played with his balls'.

I knew what was going to happen but have found it best not to tell him whats coming as if he knows someone is going to be messing he will just worry and talk himself out of going. our ultrasound came back ok, they also check all the tubes are there correctly!

so sorry alot fo you are going through a hardtime at the moment. we went through the same thing in fact at one of fertility appointments the doctor asked my OH if she could bring some nurses in whilst she examined his privates. and he was like 'i would rather you didnt, i have 6 different doctors examine me and its embarrassing and they all say the same thing'. now we see a male endocronologist doctor who he feelsw much more comfortable with and takes him into another room. 

It sounds easy to say, we found out April '10 so its been like 13 months for us and 2.5 years of trying and it is getting easier, we are much more chilled out about things although sometimes a bit frustrated about the waiting lists but as a couple we are good. infact we joke now 'ah its not so bad right now look at all the time and money we have to ourselves' we make sure we enjoy the benefits of not having children so that it is not the be all and end all of our lives.

it is a grieving process and everyday it gets a little bit easier. My oh really felt like absolute shit and went through the whole leave me for a real man who can give you children. all you care about is having a child not who its with. etc etc. its a massive shock for them! i dont know how i would cope if it was me.

What i have learnt is they are men, they dont want to know all the facts and processes and to talk about it every night. they know they dont make any sperm belive me it will be all they think about. but oh has trust in me and my research that i know what i amtalking about when we see the doctors. it a scary time and they want to feel safe. and men hate talking about most things so something like this will be even worse for them. i know he is thinking about it, we cant make the doctors move any quicker so no point going over it. i wanted to talk about it at first because it was all i could think about but honestly it really does get easier. You get through the frist bit and your just so close for having gone through this massive thing together. and i think turn out to be much better parents in the long run we have waited so long for a baby, will have very loving parents when they get here.

you will both cry, say it isnt fair, get angry. but it will get easier to deal with. promise
xx


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## Deb111

waitingginger said:


> Hi Deb, Yep they have mentioned HCG to us too but i just dont know why they havent given us an ultrasound! how are they to know its not something like a tumour! how did your ultrasound go?
> 
> What i have learnt is they are men, they dont want to know all the facts and processes and to talk about it every night. they know they dont make any sperm belive me it will be all they think about. but oh has trust in me and my research that i know what i amtalking about when we see the doctors. it a scary time and they want to feel safe. and men hate talking about most things so something like this will be even worse for them. i know he is thinking about it, we cant make the doctors move any quicker so no point going over it.
> xx

neither hubby or I have had an ultrasound. i had the delightful 'dildo cam' but not much else apart from blood tests. i can't remember exactly what they said but hubby's blood test results weren't consistent with a blockage so they said no need for ultrasound

i really like what you've said there - my hubby is exactly the same :hugs:


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## Deb111

mumanddad said:


> Yeh its scarse in my house too. Im struggling to loose my last two stone aswell :(

Scarse would be good! twice in 16 months here :nope: I guess it must really affect them mentally


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## WANBMUM

Thanks so much waitingginger :) It was more for me i wanted to know what happens, he was told they would be inserting something into his penis, so not sure why or what for. I guess like everything on this journey we will learn in time. 
Do u guys go with your oh's for his appointments. I havent i guess bevause of work for me but also my oh is so independant i dont think he would let me. Is that weird? 

you have spoken so much truth of what we are going through. Even though our hearts are breaking, we feel positive as we seem to be on the same page, at the moment anyway. 
It is some rollercoaster :)


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## Deb111

I always go to the appts with hubby. He says he wants me there because I know what I'm talking about and understand a lot of it and know what to ask - I'm glad because he doesn't often take info in very well (like most men!). I just go out of the room if it's an examination - even though it's behind a curtain. He says there's no need for me to and that he doesn't have a problem with it but I just think maybe it's a bit easier for him. Mind you, as he says, how many women can say they've sat in a room whilst another bloke fiddles with their husbands bits!? :haha:


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## mumanddad

We are meeting the head consultant tomorrow to see where we go with oh he also has to get a lumo checked out because its been in his testicals for 3 yrs now..

Il fill you in tomorrow x


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## mumanddad

Deb111 said:


> mumanddad said:
> 
> 
> Yeh its scarse in my house too. Im struggling to loose my last two stone aswell :(
> 
> Scarse would be good! twice in 16 months here :nope: I guess it must really affect them mentallyClick to expand...

O thats not good we have gone from every day to once a month x


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## mumanddad

I GIVE UP WHAT A WASTE OF TIME

our appointment was at 9 and we got seen at 9:45 we was the head consultants first appointment!!!

His words where yep aszoospermia we need to do chromozone testing which will probably come back normal...

I asked what would happen if they did and he said u better loose weight quick......FFS IM TRYING TO

then he took matt for an examination as he has a lump in his testical and he said its a varacus vain and it wont be the problem ( but dont the swell!)

I asked what else we can do he said nothing at all so i asked about the scans and sperm retreval and be shrugged his shoulders grrrrrrrr i was cryi g my eyes out by this time..

He was the bloody head of the fertility center!!!!

Then he said he had recieved me notes from the birth of my son and the post mortem results..... Well i was told i would be classed as high risk in my next pregnancy (more scans once month probably and deliver at 35 weeks) and he said well i suppose we can give you one extra scan  

I give up now i really do


o how long does it take to get the chromozone results?? 

I feel like curling up in a ball and crying :'-(


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## Deb111

Oh hun that's dreadful! I would seriously put in a complaint - they are dealing with vulnerable people here, not just a number on a piece of paper :growlmad: and I would ask to see someone else next time

With regard to the chromosome testing, I'm not sure how long it takes because we just had our results at our next appt.

With regard to the varicose vein - from what the FS says it sounds like a varicocele (google it if you haven't already hun) and that is very definitely a cause of infertility / azoospermia. Maybe his examination showed it wasn't big enough for it to be an issue - I don't know :shrug: but I would request to see someone else and get a second opinion 

Sending you hugs hun :hugs:


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## mumanddad

I need to get my bmi down from 34 to 29 and ut aint happening lol


matt is going private for some tests he is sick of the nhs x


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## Deb111

whether you need to get your weight down or not - that's no way for the FS to be dealing with you :hugs:

I'm going to PM you hun x


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## silverbell

Hi everybody

I'm so glad to have found this thread.

We found out yesterday that DH's SA showed no sperm and he had a repeat one done yesterday afternoon, the results of which confirm azoospermia. :cry: We're both absolutely and utterly devastated. Unfortunately after the initial shock we've both been incredibly tearful and had to leave work early today because we were both under too much strain and trying to put on a brave face. We feel like we're grieving. I can't remember ever crying this much and just feeling so overwhelmingly sorry and sad for DH.

We're not sure about the cause, although DH appears to have certain physical characteristics that fit with Klinefelter's Syndrome, so we'll be mentioning that to our GP when we see them on Monday.

I assume they'll take bloods and perhaps refer him for a scan as the next step?

I'll be subscribing to this thread and will update as and when we get any news.

Wishing you all so much luck and health and happiness.

xx


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## Pink Lolly

Hello ladies - sorry I have been a rubbish stalker lately, time just seems to be running away with me at the mo. 

Hope youre all OK. I have an update so I'm off to update my journal now xx


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## Deb111

Welcome silverbell. I'm so sorry to hear about your news but glad that you found us :hugs: I have to admit I hate seeing a new name on this thread because I know it means that another couple are having to deal with this :nope:

I don't know much about klinefelter's syndrome, but have read that sperm retrieval can be quite successful so I hope it's good news for you. 

We all understand what you're going through and it might help you to read through this whole thread if you get some time - you will see that you are definitely not alone, because right now, I know it's easy to feel like you are.

Where abouts in the UK are you? xx


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## silverbell

Hi deb and thank you. I know what you mean - it's so sad to see so many people on this thread, although comforting to know we are all here for one another. 

We live just off the south coast near Portsmouth. I note you're from Brum. That's where I was born and brought up.


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## jennyc2412

Hi,

I'm hoping to join your thread as I'm also dealing with the news that my hubby has azoospermia and I really need to speak to other people who are going through it.

We found out on 30th December and were completely shocked and devastated.. I didn't even know the condition existed and I cried for days. We had been TTC for 2 years. Since then he has had blood tests done for hormone levels etc, which all came back fine, so the doctor said that there is no reason for him to have no sperm. But .. he had the op last week to retrieve sperm but sadly there was nothing there. I'd got my hopes up after the doctor saying the above and really wish I hadn't now. 

Hubby is doing ok, but he keeps saying sorry and he feels that he has let me, and our families down. So our only options now are sperm donor, adoption or be childless.. which is not an option for me. We are veering towards the SD option, but i'm dreading what is ahead of us now in terms of decisions we have to make, and the feelings we are going to have throughout the SD process and the rest of our lives (and the babies if it is successful!)

I'm so upset about it, and can't get my head around the fact that I will never have my gorgeous husband's babies. But we're trying to stay positive, as hard as it is..

any advice on how to cope with this would be great..
x


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## Deb111

Hi Jenny

You are very welcome here :hugs:

I'm so sorry you and your husband are going through this. There are a few women on here who have gone / are going down the SD route so they will be able to give you lots of advice.

Are you in the UK? Do you have a note of your husband's hormone levels?

I'm glad that you and your husband are able to agree that SD is a possibility - my husband is totally against it (thanks largely to his aunt! - but that's a long story)

Take some time to read through this thread if you get a chance. This is a great group of women who will support you through your journey

Keep in touch xx


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## waitingginger

Hi Jenny and silverbell!
so sorry you have had to join this group, but i am glad you have found us!
It is a really hard time and your right silver it is like your grieving. Its sounds so patronising but i promise things do get easier! its a very long round with all the tests etc and its something which is always at the back of your mind but you eventually get to a point where you dont see a pregnant lady or baby and start to cry!

Silver, your OH will have blood tests and an ultrasound scan next and then they will see about treatment from there. we have been told because his bloods arent right there would be no point having a sperm retrieval now as his bloods point to something else being the cause.

Jenny as deb said are you in the UK? they seem to of got your OH in for an sperm retireval really quickly, would be interested to know what other tests he had for them to find out that was the best option before trying any other treatment? or if they did found out the cause of his azoospermia?

Hope everyone else is ok and enjoying the sun in the UK! i am off to spin and then wedding dress shopping while OH is away on a stag weekend! wine is called for tonight i think! :) xx


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## silverbell

Hey wg. Thank you for the lovely welcome and for your advice and kind thoughts. You're right - I've already experienced crying at seeing babies yesterday when we went shopping. Not just babies either - just any kids at all. It just hurts so much at the moment. It's all still so very raw.

Thank you for letting me know what will happen next. I really hope it all moves quickly, as I feel the waiting is going to be horrendous, but I guess there's not much you can do if you don't have private healthcare and rely on the NHS. The good thing is that we both work at the NHS hospital, so hopefully he can be put on the list in case there's a last-minute cancellation and he can just pop down to have his scan or whatever.

Wow, I hope the wedding dress shopping goes really well. I only ever tried one dress on and fell in love instantly and bought it - all within about 10 minutes :haha: It must be fun to go and try lots of different dresses on.


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## snd80

Jen-I just bought the book "Helping the Stork". You might want to pick it up. It is about the decisions of DI and was written by a infertile couple that went through DI. I haven't finished it yet, but so far so good!!!! Hope it helps you out some. My hubby won't even go to the urilogist to see what his problem is, so DI is my plan for next year, so I am prepping myself early! 

Hugs to all the girls on here!


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## Flake-y

Jenny & Silverbell, welcome to the thread, you will def find lots of support here.

Jenny, like your DH, my DH also had an unsuccessful sperm retrieval operation. The cause of his azoospermia was found to be sertoli cell only syndrome. We decided to go down the sperm donor route, and as you can see from my ticker, we are looking forward to our baby coming in November!!! To be honest, its going to be our baby through & through; DH was there when I took the test, when we went for the first scan, he'll be there at the birth & for the rest of our baby's life. It doesn't matter that he's not the biologocal father, that's not what makes a good Dad. I know it might feel like the worst thing ever right now, but those feelings really don't last forever.

Once you see those 2 lines appear, all the tests & heartache just get forgotton!!!


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## mumanddad

Hay welcome to the group im sorry you have had to join u x x


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## silverbell

Thanks everybody. You've all been so welcoming and kind.

DH had his GP appointment today. The guy was a bit clueless and said he'd never come across this in 25 years of being a GP. He really didn't know what to say to us and kept shaking his head and was all a bit doom and gloom. I definitely knew more than he did in the few short days I've been researching it and I told him about the blood tests and ultrasound scan. He has given DH forms for both (bloods just testing for hormones) and has referred him to a Urologist.

He mentioned that we would need to consider donor sperm or adoption in the future. Didn't even seem to be aware of the possible success of sperm retrieval, but perhaps he didn't want to build our hopes up. Saying that though, I think it's more likely he didn't even know it existed.

He also examined DH and said his testicles were smaller than normal.

All in all a bit depressing, but I've told DH not to focus too much on it as he was just a bit clueless and isn't an expert.

On a lighter note, it seems my blood are mostly OK. There was some slight query as to whether the progesterone was high enough, but I did tell the doc I had the test late due to the weekend and a Bank Holiday and got my AF 4 days after the test, so I'm sure it's not entirely accurate. He said not to worry about that yet, if at all, and to focus on DH.

DH has expressed a desire to speak to other men online about azoospermia and asked me to see if I could get emails of any men with it. I don't suppose any of you know of any place I might get this, such as a support group etc?


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## Flake-y

Silverbell, my DH's GP said the exact same thing! In fact, until I did a bit of googling, we thought he was the only one in the world with it! 

I'd bet your GP didn't know that sperm retrieval is an option; they don't seem to know anything about the whole thing. And I wouldn't go with his opinion on testicle size either, I'd wait to get a urologist's opinion on that.


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## Deb111

Jo just took the words out of my mouth :thumbup: Gp's cannot be experts in every area - the important thing is that he has referred you to the right person.

As far as talking to other men goes, I tried a while ago to find a good site to post a link too - found a really good one but never had hubby's request acknowledged and approved so I will have another scout around xx


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## silverbell

Thanks so much, Flake-y and Deb. :hugs:

That's made me feel better.

That would be great if you did manage to find somewhere, Deb. I had a look too and couldn't find any kind of male support centre ... such a shame.


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## Deb111

Right, I'm going to attempt to create a private facebook group that only invited members can join and is invisible in searches and in peopl's profiles.

Thing is I need to add people as friends and then invite those friends so I need someone's dh's facebook name. Once i have set it up I will remove myself and just leave it to the men to chat.

PM me details if your dh's want adding


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## Flake-y

Great idea Deb! You are very fb savvy now, I wouldn't have a clue how to do that!

My DH doesn't have fb, otherwise you could add him, I'm always trying to convince him to join but he won't!!!


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## Deb111

I didn't say I COULD do it :rofl: but the helpful page I've found that explains it step by step tells you to look for the navigation bar at the bottom of every facebook page ... and I can't find it! Back to the drawing board!

And I'm definitely not facebook savvy Jo lol - I hate it and just don't 'get it' :shrug:


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## silverbell

Great idea! Just asked hubby and he said he'd be ever so keen to join, but he would absolutely 1 million per cent need to know that nobody would know he'd joined and it wouldn't be visible on his profile or any messages posted wouldn't be visible on his profile.

Unless we set up a tester group first and tried it out for them? Called it something totally non-obvious? I'm not sure?

I'm fairly au fait with FB and wouldn't mind looking into this if you wanted? I can't right now, but perhaps an evening this week. If so, I'll report back as and when I know more. Great idea :thumbup:


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## Deb111

It's something I will look into, but although it's totally possible to make it totally secret, I'm having some trouble getting the correct links to open and as you say, don't want to risk anything not being totally private, so I will keep investigating.

But in the mean time, I've found a forum that looks pretty good. I've signed hubby up and it only took a couple of minutes and you just follow the link sent to your email to start. This is the link to the thread I posted on his behalf (but I will leave it to the men now) https://www.southwestvasectomyreversal.com/forum/viewthread/180/

The site doesn't seem hugely active, but if all our dh's go on, they can make it as active and as supportive as they like :thumbup:


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## silverbell

Excellent! I'll let DH know :thumbup:


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## Flake-y

Deb111 said:


> And I'm definitely not facebook savvy Jo lol - I hate it and just don't 'get it' :shrug:

But its addictive!!! :blush:


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## Deb111

Chocolate ... sleep ... B'n'B ... now they're addictive, but honestly I just don't get what's so addictive about facebook :shrug: (apart from being able to look at piccies of Baby Owen and piccies of Dilly's bump :winkwink:) 

Right I'm off to measure a mango and pay your journal a visit!! :rofl:


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## waitingginger

Deb, was your apppintment with your Dr yesterday? or i am i just imagining things!! xx


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## Deb111

We see Dr Ramsay tomorrow Amy. How are you doing? xx


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## loobylou_01

hi ladies, sorry i've not been around much lately, my gorgeous little owen has been keeping me very busy. he's an absolute gem and i'm loving bein a mummy.

silverbell and jenny - sorry to see you've had to join us, i can completely understand how utterly crap your feeling. my dh had his ssr last august and although they found sperm it was not regular therefore for the best chance of pregnancy ssuccess we were advised to use ds and nine months later we have our gorgeous baby boy. he is so perfect and completely ours, dh has been there every step of the way and our little boy means the world to us, dh is besotted.
i hope and wish you both the very best of luck whichever path you choose xxx


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## silverbell

I hope that the appointment with Dr Ramsey today goes well, Deb. :hugs:

Thanks so much, looby x


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## Deb111

Thanks SB. I've just posted a very long update in my journal xx


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## silverbell

.


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## Bookworm

Hi all - I hope you guys don't mind me kind of butting in; Azoospermia hasn't been officially diagnosed for us yet, but it is very much on the cards and I'm really looking for a bit of info/advice/support...

DH had his first SA last month and unfortunately between the stress and a bit of stage fright he missed the target and returned a sample too small to test - so we had to reschedule and his 2nd test has come back last week with no sperm. We have a consultation tomorrow and at the same time he'll take a 3rd test. We've been trying for 2 years and we are realistic about the results of the 2nd test....

So, I've been doing my research and I'm terrified of what this means for us. I know that in the majority of cases they do find sperm in the testis; but when you've already found yourself in the 5% of people who don't conceive in 2yrs and the 1-2% of people that have no sperm it's difficult to find comfort in the statistics.

I'm also frustrated because I've been reading up on azoospermia and there's lots of interesting stuff about less invasive ways to diagnose it and how to identify and potentially treat the cause - but looking at our clinic's website it seems to me that they will just want to biopsy and move to ICSI if they find anything.... and for DH sake I don't want him to have to go through a horrible procedure only to hear more bad news! But DH is being so amazing and is willing to go through whatever he has to in order to make this happen for us...

Actually DH's putting me massively to shame! Since we got the news on Thursday I've been a wreck! Crying at every little thing (my fear being that we're about to come to the end of the road TTC). And this is obviously not the best thing for me to do when this is his issue - I've had a text book bad reaction! And instead of getting angry at me he has been picking me up and supporting me! 

We'll be asking about our options on diagnosis and treatment at the clinic tomorrow. It's a private clinic and I'm kind of wondering if we are lucky enough and ICSI turns out to be an option for us is it possible to go ahead with ICSI private but seek a longer term solution through the NHS (if the cause is a treatable one) - I know this sounds completely selfish, but if we could start our family sooner rather than later and then potentially 'correct' the issue causing azospermia for the future wouldn't that be amazing? But is this even possible? 

*This is a far cry from the girl who spent the last 4 days crying at the thought of never having an ultrasound/hearing my baby's heartbeat/receiving a mother's day card.... hope is creeping back in, but that is scary too! The potential disappointment is so great & even if it turns out ICSI is an option success is not guaranteed.... How do you handle the fear/stress/disappointment?


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## silverbell

Bookworm, I could have written most of that myself. We're in very similar situations in that we only found out DH had no sperm in his samples 1.5 weeks ago. It seems like a lifetime already with all the emotions, research and discussions that have taken place since.

I'm sorry you've found yourself here too. :hugs: The ladies on this thread are lovely and I'm sure will be here to give you lots of encouragement and advice. Obviously I'm very new to it all as well, so probably won't be too much help.

DH and I have already accepted that he'll probably need an op or 2 to see if there are sperm and he's happy with this. We want to know we've done everything we can before going down the sperm donor or adoption route. We have also tried to counsel each other to be prepared for further bad news and that we may well end up having to use a sperm donor.

My DH is being amazing too. I think us ladies really struggle quite a bit more, as we're so emotional and think of so many different things and over-analyse everything.

When DH and I found out on the Wednesday afternoon we went home from work early as DH felt physically sick. He told me the news in the car on the way home and I thought I was going to throw up. Later on he left home to get another sample pot from the docs and I just burst into uncontrollable floods of tears. Fast forward to the Thursday and all morning at work I was falling apart. I just couldn't cope. I kept breaking down in the loos and tearing up all the time. DH was apparently having a really tough time too. We were definitely in shock and devastated at that point and shouldn't have been at work. After I completely fell apart in front of my colleague, we both went home and took the Friday off work. We needed a few days to get our heads straight and lean on each other and just be together.

It has gotten easier now, but is still utterly heartbreaking. It's different from lots of other forms of infertility because you're basically being told there's a high possibility you may never have biological children with the man you love. It's a MASSIVE thing to deal with and understand and you're probably still in some shock now.

You're very lucky to get a private appointment so soon. I don't think it's at all selfish to want to start your family sooner rather than later. You've waited long enough already and the thought of loads of waiting lists wouldn't be helping your current emotional state either. In fact, DH and I are considering getting a loan in order to get any treatment done privately as we just can't bear the thought of waiting on the NHS, especially when you only get one try at IVF where we live. 

As I say, I'm still very new to the world of azoospermia, but I don't think a longer term solution is possible for the majority of men unfortunately. I sincerely hope it is in your case and I believe it is possible, though the chances are low.

In answer to how to handle the fear, stress and disappointment ... I still don't know. Just take each day as it comes and more than anything talk, talk, talk to each other. Tell each other every little thing that's crossing your minds. You've got to be so strong for each other now more than ever and if you're anything like my DH and I, you'll become counsellors for each other.

We've decided to just take it one step at a time and see what each step reveals, though we are prepared for the possibility of yet more heartache and extremely difficult decisions in the future.

I wish you all the very best x


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## mumanddad

Hay ladies sorry i havent been around.

Well we started the ball rolling for adoption on friday... So im excited about all that and we are going to save for ivf 

but guess what im 2 days late... One minute i think af is on its way but next minute i have the same pregnancy symptoms j had with my angel


ahhhhhhh why cant my body make its mind up. Surely im not pregnant because of azoospermia!?!


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## Deb111

Welcome Bookworm and I'm glad you've found us. What you are experiencing is perfectly normal - you are in shock. You are grieving for how you thought things would be and for the time being you have to just go with it - cry, scream, shout, stamp your feet because it's NOT fair.

What you said about hoping but being so scared is exactly what I said to my husband's urologist on Saturday - qhilst you're in limbo and waiting, nothing can go wrong but as soon as you start doing something to try and get where you want to be, you will hopefully get some success but are also setting yourself up for disappointment and he couldn't have put it better. He said "If you don't cross the road, you can't get run over can you?" But I guess if we never try, we will never know.

Silverbell is right - you just have to take each day as it comes. Some will be ok, some might be good and some will be dreadful right now, but your bad days will start to feel less bad and you will strat to look forward to what you can do.

Will be thinking of you both tomorrow xx


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## Deb111

mumanddad said:


> Hay ladies sorry i havent been around.
> 
> Well we started the ball rolling for adoption on friday... So im excited about all that and we are going to save for ivf
> 
> but guess what im 2 days late... One minute i think af is on its way but next minute i have the same pregnancy symptoms j had with my angel
> 
> 
> ahhhhhhh why cant my body make its mind up. Surely im not pregnant because of azoospermia!?!

Lots happening for you hun! Will keep everything crossed that things work out for you one way or another xx


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## silverbell

OK, ladies, I need to pick your brains! Deb very helpfully suggested that I could check on here to see what questions we should be asking the Urologist when we eventually get to see him (hopefully soon).

I thought I'd ask now and start writing them all down because Deb is right and I will forget once we're in there face-to-face.

Just to bring you all up to speed, DH has had 2 SA and both show absolutely zero sperm. He's had an ultrasound (apparently shows smaller testicles than normal and an epidydimal cyst) and he has had his hormone blood tests done (will get results from GP next Monday). 

What should we ask the Urologist when we see him?


----------



## Bookworm

Hi Silverbell - I'm really green here so I'm afraid I might jump in here and embarrass myself... but here's my thought anyway and please forgive me if these are silly/redundant:

If tests all come back OK what way do they test to see if there is sperm in the testis: ie biopsy/PESE/etc At my clinic there is a tendency to go straight to biopsy but apparently the PESE is less invasive but only some of the consultants do it at the moment;
Will he have to have more than 1 procedure? so if they go in once can they try to get as much as possible and try to freeze and thaw some to test that it will work - if so job is done and move straight to cycle1;
Will you need more tests?

Good luck - FX for good test results


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## Deb111

Ok here's a few things off to top of my head - I'm sure others will add more (and don't feel that anyone will think you're making silly comments Bookworm - we were all new to this once and are still learning)

- did they centrifuge the sperm sample? (as apparently, centrifuging it can sometimes find one or 2 at the bottom)

- get a note of his FSH, LH, oestradiol, prolactin and testosterone blood test results and also see if they have done / will do a thyroid test

- needs karyotype test, cystic fibrosis carrier test and blood test for y-chromosome microdeletion

- ask if NHS find sperm, is there a minimum number they need to freeze them?
(they got rid of our 3 very healthy ones because it didn't meet their criteria of 100!)


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## Deb111

I was just thinking, when we have come up with a comprehensive list of questions, I will add it to the first page as an easy reference for newbies :thumbup:


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## Flake-y

Bookworm said:


> Hi Silverbell - I'm really green here so I'm afraid I might jump in here and embarrass myself... but here's my thought anyway and please forgive me if these are silly/redundant:
> 
> If tests all come back OK what way do they test to see if there is sperm in the testis: ie biopsy/PESE/etc At my clinic there is a tendency to go straight to biopsy but apparently the PESE is less invasive but only some of the consultants do it at the moment;
> Will he have to have more than 1 procedure? so if they go in once can they try to get as much as possible and try to freeze and thaw some to test that it will work - if so job is done and move straight to cycle1;
> Will you need more tests?
> 
> Good luck - FX for good test results

Hey Bookworm, welcome to the thread, you will find lots of support here.

My DH has already had a surgical sperm retrieval done, thought you might be interested in exactly what he had done.

All his blood tests came back normal, testes were normal sized, the urologist waid the only way to know for sure if there was sperm in the testes is to do the SSR. He suggested a PESE first, which aspirates fluid from the epididymus, then if there was no sperm found there, to go straight to the TESE which takes multiple testicular biopsies. These were both done at the same time under a GA.

I think it would depend on the blood results, if the bloods come back with something treatable then they would do that before doing any surgery.

Wishing you lots of luck!!!!


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## silverbell

Bookworm, I think Flake-y has answered far better than I could have and I'm still so new I'm just going by what I've researched at the moment. Hope you're doing as OK as you can be :hugs:

Deb - thank you so much! Some great questions there and I've written them down. Adding them to the first page would be fabulous and, I agree, very helpful indeed for newbies.

I have one more question that's been bugging me.

I believe that at some point (as we'll be using donor sperm if no sperm is found on SSR for DH), I will need to be checked to ensure I'm OK to have IVF? Who does this? Is this a Gynaecologist or a Fertility Centre? The reason being is that I live on an island with no Fertility Centre. Going across to the mainland is fine for the IVF/ICSI side of things, but will mean lots of days off work and travelling/money if I have to do everything there (such as scans, blood tests, examinations etc - I don't know exactly what a workup for me would entail, so forgive my ignorance).

Therefore, is it worth me requesting a referral to see the Gynaecologist here so that I can get fully worked up and checked so we're all ready to go once DH has had investigations? Or will they not do that?

We're just trying to save time and cut corners and speed things along and if I can get in the system and fully checked out then that would certainly help.

Any ideas? Sorry for all the questions, but still very clueless.


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## waitingginger

hi bookworm!

so sorry you have had to join us! but so glad you have found us!! seems to be more and more people joining every week! scary to think how many people there are out there dealing with this!

Our process so far has been:
2 SAs
ultrasound scan
numerous examinations
Blood tests

because OH blood tests have come back as having practically no FSH or LH, we arent going to be considered for a SSR at this time because his bloods point to the problem being hormonal or something with the paturity gland, which is something that may be fixable with drugs!! so we are just waiting at the moment whilst OHs bloods are checked over a 6 month period!

I think if you have chance to read any of the pages or our journals you see not that none of our journeys seem to of been the same! we have had different tests in different orders! i hope you can make some sense from it and ask your fertility consultant about all of it! so nothing is missed out!! would be great to hear on your OHs blood test results when you have them!!

Silverbell- yes i saw a gyno seperately but i got reffered quicker then my OH and now i just have to get copies of my test results for the fertility clinic! think it would speed time up! i told our fertility specalist i had had day 21 bloods, ultrasound, internal scan and HSG and she said that was everything and it made it easier she knew she was only treating one issue! depends if your Doc is prepared to refer you too :) 

Hope everybody else is well!!

xxxx


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## Flake-y

Silverbell, if you go thru the NHS, it'll be a gynocologist that'll do all your tests. I'd say it doesn't do any harm to get referred & get all your tests done. They'll def do them before any IVF anyway, but getting them done now might save a bit of time!


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## silverbell

Waitingginger and Flake-y - thank you so much :hugs: That's made me feel so much better. I will definitely ask on Monday now that you've said that and leave it up to him. Hopefully he'll agree and I can at least get my part all sorted and in tip-top shape ready for any treatments. It's great too, waitingginger, as our processes are the same at the moment (2 SAs, USS, exams and blood tests). We're just waiting to find out the results of the scan and bloods on Monday and review with a Urologist in July.

I have noticed that no 2 stories seem to be the same and lots of different things done in different orders. It makes it very confusing and frustrating for a newbie, as you can't figure out what on earth will happen next. :wacko: 

That's such great news about them thinking yours might be a hormonal problem that may be able to be fixed. I really do hope this is the case and am keeping everything crossed for you!


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## Bookworm

Thank you so much everyone for the welcome, answers & advice - unfortunately we've had it officially confirmed & are 'dealing with azoospermia'

I think I will cruise by some journals if you don't mind - it's all so new and it'd be great to have an idea of what's in store... Though I'd echo Silverbell; having just read some of this thread it's a minefield!

We're trying not to pre-empt anything but we know there has been another case of obstructive azoospermia in DH's family which led to 2 ICSI babies. The couple were very open & have said that the cause of the obstruction was unknown.... When we mentioned that the consultant indicated a strong suspicion that we could be looking at DH being a CF carrier. I'd love to talk to the other couple to ask what tests they had etc but DH is unwilling to tell people yet. 

The other couple went through this some years ago (their oldest is almost 10) - do you think it's possible that the testing/investigations weren't as thorough/developed then? The dr seemed quite sure that CF is a possibility but I believe that if the couple knew he was a carrier they would have told the rest of the family - particularly when they were so open about everything else...

I suppose it doesn't much matter though; we have to go through the process anyway & we'll get answers eventually. Strange I feel like I'm finally coming to terms with the news & now DH seems to be flagging! 

Thanks again


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## silverbell

I'm sorry it has been confirmed, Bookworm :hugs:

My DH doesn't want to tell anybody either.

I imagine testing is better these days - I think tests and investigations are constantly improving.

It's the waiting that is hard. I've found that out already and we only found out he had AZ 2 weeks ago!

Don't worry about your DH flagging. If you're anything like my DH and I your emotions will be up and down for a while yet. One day you might be fine and the next in pieces. Some days things will get to you and another they won't. You'll both feel a bit up and down for a while I would think. It's so much to take in and think about and hope for. I don't think you'd be human if your emotions weren't all over the place. :hugs:


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## Deb111

Bookworm said:


> We're trying not to pre-empt anything but we know there has been another case of obstructive azoospermia in DH's family which led to 2 ICSI babies. The couple were very open & have said that the cause of the obstruction was unknown.... When we mentioned that the consultant indicated a strong suspicion that we could be looking at DH being a CF carrier. I'd love to talk to the other couple to ask what tests they had etc but DH is unwilling to tell people yet.
> 
> The other couple went through this some years ago (their oldest is almost 10) - do you think it's possible that the testing/investigations weren't as thorough/developed then? The dr seemed quite sure that CF is a possibility but I believe that if the couple knew he was a carrier they would have told the rest of the family - particularly when they were so open about everything else...
> 
> I suppose it doesn't much matter though; we have to go through the process anyway & we'll get answers eventually. Strange I feel like I'm finally coming to terms with the news & now DH seems to be flagging!
> 
> Thanks again

Sorry you've had confirmation Bookworm :hugs:

The first ICSI treatment wasn't done until 1992 and we were told that surgical sperm retrieval has only been around for something like 10 years, so I'm sure medically, things have progressed an AWFUL lot since then.

10 / 12 years ago none of us would have had any other option but donor sperm / adoption. Medical research is progressing every day. Don't know much about the CF carrier thing though sorry.

Thinking of you both xx


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Bookworm 

Welcome to the thread - sorry to hear you are having to deal with this :hugs: We all know how you feel. It is such a massive thing to have to deal with and I know it has been a complete rollercoaster for me and DH over the last 7 months. One minute we're upset, then impatient, angry, sometimes positive, then feel like giving up....and so on.....I expect you have already experienced a lot of these emotions. 

We got the results of our first SA in November, and thankfully I found this thread. Since then DH has had all sorts of blood tests and an examination. DH had one undescended testicle as a child, which was corrected when he was 5/6 and has been confirmed to be damaged. The other side looks OK so they are hoping to extract sperm as all of his bloods have also cme back Ok. DH will be having his SSR in July/Aug (we are waiting now) and hoping to start our first cycle of ICSI straight after. 

Keep in touch and please feel free to ask any questions (although I am not as clued up as some of the others on here though!) :hugs:


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## Deb111

We're 14 months down the line and still have bad days, but as I've said before - unfortunately it just becomes part of who we are. Hubby and I are lucky in that we rarely have down days together. One of us is usually able to look on the positive side. Although I have to admit, I find appointment days very hard and hubby knows to stay out of my way whilst we're getting ready :dohh: I just can't get the feeling of 'we shouldn't have to be doing all this' and 'what's going to go wrong at this appt?' out of my head. But .. we are doing it and we will do it, because that's how it has to be xx


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## Pink Lolly

Deb111 said:


> We're 14 months down the line and still have bad days, but as I've said before - unfortunately it just becomes part of who we are. Hubby and I are lucky in that we rarely have down days together. One of us is usually able to look on the positive side. Although I have to admit, I find appointment days very hard and hubby knows to stay out of my way whilst we're getting ready :dohh: I just can't get the feeling of 'we shouldn't have to be doing all this' and 'what's going to go wrong at this appt?' out of my head. But .. we are doing it and we will do it, because that's how it has to be xx

Wow that's wierd because me and DH are exactly the same - if I'm having a down day he seems to be OK. Then when I'm OK he seems to get really down!


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## Deb111

I think it's possibly a sub-conscious feeling of, he's down so I better try to put a brave face on and vice versa xx


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## Deb111

Right girls, I've updated the first page with some easy to access info - if you think of anything it would be useful to add, let me know.

Also let me know of any appt dates to add as I've lost track of some of those that have been mentioned in passing in posts xx


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## silverbell

_Taken from my journal_

I've been reading my 'Making Babies the Hard Way' book and it's made for really interesting reading. It's made me cry a few times though. They also had a shocking GP who actually just got rid of them after giving them the sperm results without referring them or anything! GP just said, "Sorry". Thankfully they knew a Gynae Consultant who advised them that this wasn't the end of the road yet.

One thing they said in the book was that the feelings a couple experience when they find out are exactly the same as grief and bereavement. This made me feel better, because it's exactly how we both felt with a dash of shock thrown in. 

DH and I talked more about donor sperm last night. I told him more about it and the implications. I said I needed him to be entirely 1 million per cent sure about it and not just to say 'yes' because he thought I wanted to hear that or because he thought I wanted to experience pregnancy and birth. He was adamant that he wants to use donor sperm. He says he'll still be the dad, even if his genes aren't the same. He likes the idea of being there from day 1, all through pregnancy, going with me to scans etc, picking out baby items and being there at the birth. He always thought he'd experience that and still wants to now. We are both happy with the idea of adoption, but we know the waiting lists are very long and strict, particularly if you want a baby. 

So I've just got to hope that I'll be OK when they check me out. I hope life isn't cruel enough that I have problems too so donor sperm isn't an option, should it come to that.

It's horrible to think of these things without knowing yet exactly what's going on with DH, but we both feel it's important to be prepared and to discuss what our feelings are should no sperm be found.


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## silverbell

Great edit to the first post, Deb. Really informative and useful - thank you soooo much.

I will watch your video when I get the chance and I also forgot to get DH to sign up to that forum, so will try to get that sorted too. Thank you x

PS - to add to the front - our Urologist appt is 12 July (unless a cancellation comes up).


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## mumanddad

Hello ladies

well we are still waiting for ohs chromozone results but i got a bfp yesterday :) 

Im so shocked and taking it carefully.. I have already had one of his family members as if this baby is actually matts :( how dare they i would never cheat on him and i would never have the time! If im not at work ( i have 2 jobs n work 7 days aweek) then im with matt.

I keep asking how this has happened, did they get it wrong?


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## silverbell

mumanddad said:


> Hello ladies
> 
> well we are still waiting for ohs chromozone results but i got a bfp yesterday :)
> 
> Im so shocked and taking it carefully.. I have already had one of his family members as if this baby is actually matts :( how dare they i would never cheat on him and i would never have the time! If im not at work ( i have 2 jobs n work 7 days aweek) then im with matt.
> 
> I keep asking how this has happened, did they get it wrong?

Oh my goodness me, congratulations! :happydance:

I'm guessing just 1 single sperm made it out for some reason and defied all the odds to reach your egg? How bizarre (but fantastic).

You lucky, lucky lady. I'm so pleased for you.

As for the rude people :growlmad: Just try to ignore them. You and Matt know the truth and that's all that matters.


----------



## mumanddad

silverbell said:


> mumanddad said:
> 
> 
> Hello ladies
> 
> well we are still waiting for ohs chromozone results but i got a bfp yesterday :)
> 
> Im so shocked and taking it carefully.. I have already had one of his family members as if this baby is actually matts :( how dare they i would never cheat on him and i would never have the time! If im not at work ( i have 2 jobs n work 7 days aweek) then im with matt.
> 
> I keep asking how this has happened, did they get it wrong?
> 
> Oh my goodness me, congratulations! :happydance:
> 
> I'm guessing just 1 single sperm made it out for some reason and defied all the odds to reach your egg? How bizarre (but fantastic).
> 
> You lucky, lucky lady. I'm so pleased for you.
> 
> As for the rude people :growlmad: Just try to ignore them. You and Matt know the truth and that's all that matters.Click to expand...

Thank you x

i have explained to matt just because its happened this time doesn't mean it will happen again but he is just so excited because one little spermy servived bless him.

I would really like it if i can stay around with you all? X


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## Deb111

mumanddad said:


> Hello ladies
> 
> well we are still waiting for ohs chromozone results but i got a bfp yesterday :)
> 
> Im so shocked and taking it carefully.. I have already had one of his family members as if this baby is actually matts :( how dare they i would never cheat on him and i would never have the time! If im not at work ( i have 2 jobs n work 7 days aweek) then im with matt.
> 
> I keep asking how this has happened, did they get it wrong?

Fabulous news! They do say that men with azoospermia often have a VERY low sperm count and it's just that no sperm make it through to the semen. I guess one or two must have!! :happydance:

Of course you can stay around with us - this is all part of your journey. We need to be reading success stories like this and Flake-y's and Looby-Lou's


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## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> Of course you can stay around with us - this is all part of your journey. We need to be reading success stories like this and Flake-y's and Looby-Lou's

Couldn't agree more :thumbup:


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## waitingginger

congratulations mumanddad! its brilliant news!

i can echo silverbell and Deb would be great for you to stick around :)
xxxx


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## waitingginger

on another note can i ask a stupid Q?
anyone know why is my signature always so far down my posts? is it something i can change in settings? :wacko:


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## Deb111

waitingginger said:


> on another note can i ask a stupid Q?
> anyone know why is my signature always so far down my posts? is it something i can change in settings? :wacko:

Only thing I can think is that the message box has to be quite deep to fit in all of the info and your avatar on the left hand side and it puts it at the bottom of that so if you're only writing a shortish post there will be a big gap??:shrug:


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## silverbell

waitingginger said:


> on another note can i ask a stupid Q?
> anyone know why is my signature always so far down my posts? is it something i can change in settings? :wacko:

That's very odd indeed - I would ask on the forum help board and hopefully a Mod can help you sort it out, as I've no idea what could be causing that.


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## WANBMUM

Hi Girls :)
I've been stalking this thread for weeks. Been reading right from the beginning and its great to see that alot of the girls at the start of this thread have baby signatures now. :happydance:
Anyway, after reading the last few pages I feel like I am going through a similar journey as alot of you. 
My hubby and I have been TTC over 2 years now. My OH has been for 3 SA tests and all have come back with no sperm. He has had a scan and we are currently waiting for an Ultrasound at the end of July. 
It has been a SLOW LONG drawn out process between tests, I this is what I have found so frustrating, but I guess looking back maybe it has been a good thing (kind of) as the time inbetween has given us the time to prepare for whats next. 
So like most of you, we have good days and bad days, My OH deals with it quietly, I just cry alot, i can cry at the drop of a hat! :wacko:
Do you girls feel horrible or guilty feeling down? I am afraid my hubby will think I am blaming him or he will feel responsible for my sadness. Its so terrible feeling like this. We do talk about this which is good. I think I am just mad at the world! ;) not him!
So basically on the 22nd July my OH has his ultrasound and he has been told, he will have a definate answer from this, he thinks they have an idea of what is wrong after the scan but they advised they will tell him for definate after the ultrasound. (not sure if i believe them but thats another story - hehe)
We have discussed donor sperm if needed, it was hubby that brought this up, he said he has no probs with this. Which is great, but it kills me to think we cant have my OH's biological baby.:cry:
Anyway, sorry for ranting. :hugs:


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> We have discussed donor sperm if needed, it was hubby that brought this up, he said he has no probs with this. Which is great, but it kills me to think we cant have my OH's biological baby.:cry:
> Anyway, sorry for ranting. :hugs:

Welcome, Wanbmum, and I'm so sorry you find yourself here. Rant away!

Your quote above is exactly how I feel. It's just heartbreaking to think we might not carry our OH's babies. Truly heartbreaking.

I couldn't agree more about being mad at the world. That's how I feel. Just mad at the unfairness and the way we are being made to suffer because of this through no fault of our own, when all we ever wanted was to get married and have a lovely little family of our own. It didn't seem like much to ask for and pretty much everybody else seems to manage. Yep, still very angry. I have days when I'm more angry than others. 

For me I must admit that I have come to already believe that DH doesn't produce sperm at all. I know I'm jumping the gun, but I think it's my way of dealing with it. If I convince myself he hasn't got any then at least I've prepared myself a little, although I'm sure that piece of news would knock me down all the same.

Take care of each other and keep talking :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Hi Silverbell and thanks :)
YES I AM EXACTLY THE SAME! I also believe the same as you, I think it is just a natural coping mechanism, at least when we get the news, we have almost prepared for it i guess. Even though, i am not looking forward to that blow and I know it will be traumatic!
Do you feel like when you think about it, it is all so surreal? As if it cant be true, that your not really going through something as awful as this? 
Yes people say women chose their husbands on being potential fathers to their future children, their best qualities, so it is bound to be devastating when that cant be :(
Who knows, maybe we wont have to worry and things will be ok.
I do know something, when we do have children, however we may get them, we will cherish EVERY SECOND of every day. I see some people and they really dont realise how lucky they are. Such is life hey!


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## silverbell

Yep, some days I wake up and for a split second I wonder if I dreamed it. Sometimes during the day I will just be thinking about it and just cannot believe it's really happening to us. It seems the stuff of nightmares.

I do hope that we won't have to worry and things will be OK. More than anything.

I know what you mean about people not realising how lucky they are.


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## silverbell

_Taken from my journal and if any of you can shed any light on any of these results it would be ever so much appreciated. Also if you spot any mistakes - I'm still very new to this and am just gathering info from the internet so it might be inaccurate._

I won't go into detail about how depressing the GP was and how he literally turned to DH and said, "We know there's no sperm in there - if there were it would be coming out and there's just nothing at all, so it's not being produced." Which we clearly know is not true, as some sperm is found in men who have no sperm in their ejaculate. 

Anyway, clearly he's still as clueless as ever and we went in knowing that.

I'm late posting on here because I've been researching like a mad thing, as we asked for a copy of the results.

I haven't even come up with anything concrete, because it's just all so confusing.

Basically:

Ultrasound is as mentioned before - cyst on left side, both testicles abnormally small, and abnormal echotexture of testicles (something about visual appearance).


Bloods ...

DH has a very, very low Testosterone level 8.8 nmol/L ... which we're finding hard to understand as DH has no trouble in the sex drive department and has never had erectile problems either the whole time I've known him. The only thing he can't do is have sex without a break of a few hours in between, but I hardly think that's a problem!

His Free Androgen index is very low at 26.6. This measures abnormal androgen status. Androgen is basically a hormone and in this circumstance relates to actvity of the male sex organs.

He has a very high FSH at 34.5 iu/L. This regulates the reproductive processes. It indicates testicular failure.

His SHBG (34.9 nmol/L), prolactin (217 miu/L) and LH appear to be OK (although I found different 'normal' ranges for LH so could be wrong here - it's 14.2 iu/L if that helps). 

There is a note to say, "Pattern suggestive of dysfunctional H-P-Testicular axis, SHBG and FAI supports dysfunctional HPT axis." I have had a Google and this seems to relate to a disorder of the glands in the brain, but I am still rather clueless.

His results above seem to fit with primary testicular failure, which basically means that the testicles are failing to produce sperm. 

This is really, really bad news, as you can imagine. The best result would have been a normal result so at least we'd have thought he'd been making sperm inside him somewhere. These results all seem to suggest that he's not making anything at all.

Obviously I'm just going by stuff I have tried to piece together on the internet and could be entirely wrong, but I don't think I'm far off.

GP said that DH will need to go on Testosterone replacement therapy and that this won't help with fertility, but will be for his own sake as he cannot go through life with this low testosterone level. He has been referred to the Endocrinologists to discuss the blood results and hormone replacement therapy further. We've had a look at what low Testosterone means and I'm finding it really confusing because he just doesn't have half of the symptoms. However, we've read how important it is to get testosterone replacement for men with low levels, as it can affect almost every function in the male body, both physically and psychologically and can have the effect of prematurely aging a man and leaving him more vulnerable to heart disease and mental illness.

It's all very confusing.

I also managed to get myself referred to the Gynaecologists because I told the doc that we wanted to get the ball rolling using donor sperm (I chose not to tell him about successful sperm retrieval ops in azoospermic men). I'm being referred for us both to discuss our options and get me 'worked up'. I thought it was quite amusing that the GP thought I didn't need 'working up' because I had normal bloods ... hmmm, well what would be the point of all the expense of IUI treatments if I had blocked tubes, for example? I'm pretty sure I'll need to be scanned prior to any treatments.

Basically we're gutted as it seems likely that DH has never produced sperm. It's not absolutely 100% written in stone, but it seems to be that way from what I've gathered together. I could be very, very wrong (and I am praying I am), but we'll have to spend the next few days really letting that sink in and getting used to it. I even told DH a couple of days ago that I had very subtly and over time and possibly without even knowing, convinced myself that he has no sperm at all. I said I guessed it was a self-preservation thing so I wouldn't be as disappointed if it were found to be true. 

It will be so great to finally see the Urologist and now the Endocrinologist to hopefully shed some light onto this problem and give us just a few answers.


----------



## Deb111

So sorry to read this SB, but I'm glad you have tried not to take the GP's opinions on board. For a start off, as I'm syre you know (but your GP doesn't seem to!) azoospermia is NOT a diagnosis that says a man is not producing any sperm, it simply means there is no sperm in the ejaculate. This 'can' just be due to exceptionally low numbers. He has no right to give you a prognosis like this when he had never even seen a case of this before - but you know that - so let's ignore that and focus on the results.

Ok - here's my take on some of it for what it's worth (and I need to look through some of my research later for more info on some of the results)

That's about the level of my hubby's testosterone. From what we've been told, it's not excessively low, but is a little under the normal lowest acceptable level. Things like clomid, arimadex, tamoxifen can help with that BUT you would need an endo / urologist to tell you whether that is an option based on his other results. My hubby is on tamoxifen to a)boost the testosterone and b)drive his FSH level, which is 17. Your dh obviously doesn't need to drive his FSH.

Now I don't want to get your hopes up and I think you have been doing the right thing all along by considering the worst case scenario, but we were told that it has been known for men with an FSH level of 30 - 40 to sometimes have sperm found.

With regards to the testosterone replacement therapy, giving it to him now will cause negative feedback and will stop the body producing it's own testosterone and he will definitely then not make any sperm. But as I said, there are medications that can at least boost it short term until you have dealt with the fertility stuff.

Did they do an estradiol or estrogen blood test??

I will be back later when I've dug out some of my research! 

Big hugs xx


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## silverbell

Thanks so much, Deb :hugs:

Thank you ever so much for your take on things and there's some really interesting info in there that I didn't know. There's so much stuff on the internet to wade through and you don't know whether to believe half of it. 

No, they didn't test for estradiol or estrogen - should they have? Bloody typical he's missed it off if so!

I shall be asking the Urologist or Endocrinologist to do Karyotype, CF carrier and y-microdeletions testing anyway, so will add this to the request if it needs to be done. I was going to ask the doc today to request these tests, but he's just so clueless I swear he wouldn't have known what I was talking about, so I had already decided mid-consultation to speak with the Urologist (or now maybe the Endocrinologist) about getting these done. 

Thank you so much. It's all so confusing and you've been ever so helpful.

PS Out of interest (and please, please don't answer this if you're not comfortable to discuss it), did your DH have any problems with sex drive, erection etc? It's just confusing us that DH has no obvious symptoms of a low testosterone and yet sex drive and erection problems seem to be the main ones.


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## Deb111

I don't think Terry's estrogen / estradiol was initially done, but as I posted in my journal the estrogen : testosterone ratio is almost more important than the testosterone level and that's one of the things that things like tamoxifen help to sort out.

It really might be worth you emailing Dr Ramsay with all the results you have. Tell him that Debbie and Terry that he has been seeing pointed you in his direction. He answered our email very promptly and I'm sure if you ask him, he will tell you whether he feels he might be able to help you and whether it would be worth a visit. He really does seem to be one of the best in the UK.

[email protected]


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## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> It really might be worth you emailing Dr Ramsay with all the results you have. Tell him that Debbie and Terry that he has been seeing pointed you in his direction. He answered our email very promptly and I'm sure if you ask him, he will tell you whether he feels he might be able to help you and whether it would be worth a visit. He really does seem to be one of the best in the UK.
> 
> [email protected]

Thank you so much, Deb. I have just emailed him :thumbup: I copied out all the results and scan report and gave a bit of the history and asked for his honest opinion. I mentioned you'd pointed me to him.

If anything it'll just be nice to have the view of somebody who actually knows what he's talking about! I'm prepared for bad news, but can't wait to hear what he thinks all the same.


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## Deb111

Don't expect too much from his reply - it's likely to be quite brief. But, he will honestly tell you whether or not he feels it is worth him looking into it further and he will not get you there for an appointment just to exploit money out of you. He has managed to get all of Terry's blood tests done on the NHS to save us money :thumbup:

I really hope he gets back to you with some positive news xx


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## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> Don't expect too much from his reply - it's likely to be quite brief. But, he will honestly tell you whether or not he feels it is worth him looking into it further and he will not get you there for an appointment just to exploit money out of you. He has managed to get all of Terry's blood tests done on the NHS to save us money :thumbup:
> 
> I really hope he gets back to you with some positive news xx

I had a reply back this morning and I got all excited, but it was his PA advising that he's not back until 7 July now, but she would leave my message out for him upon his return.

Thank you :hugs:


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## Deb111

silverbell said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Don't expect too much from his reply - it's likely to be quite brief. But, he will honestly tell you whether or not he feels it is worth him looking into it further and he will not get you there for an appointment just to exploit money out of you. He has managed to get all of Terry's blood tests done on the NHS to save us money :thumbup:
> 
> I really hope he gets back to you with some positive news xx
> 
> I had a reply back this morning and I got all excited, but it was his PA advising that he's not back until 7 July now, but she would leave my message out for him upon his return.
> 
> Thank you :hugs:Click to expand...

Oh how frustrating! Well if you want to speak to an 'expert' before then you could try Dr Turek. We spoke to him before we found Dr Ramsay. He is based in the US, but ended up giving us very similar medical advice to Dr Ramsay. He will give you a free 10 min phone consultation - it will just cost you the price of the phonecall.

Go to https://www.theturekclinic.com/fertility-doctor-san-francisco.html and click on the 'schedule consultation' button on the right hand side and I think that will let you send an email to his PA, who will get back to you and arrange a convenient time for a chat xx


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## Bookworm

Hi All - back again.... I really try not to obsess too much but sometimes I just can't help myself and dropping by and just knowing that other people out there are obsessing about the same thing helps!

First - big congratulations to Mumanddad!!! What an amazing result and nice to know that sometimes it all works out despite the odds :flower:

2nd I think I should explain about the CF carrier thing: CF being Cystic Fibrosis. If a man is a CF carrier (meaning he carries the gene but does not suffer the illnesss) it can still cause a problem in the vas deferens (connection) - essentially causing obstructive azoospermia
So with DH brother having obstructive azoospermia (with un-known cause) the consultant at the fertility clinic seemed to think there is a good chance this is the problem. I guess it is so unusual that to have 2 instances in one family must point to a genetic link.

If this is proven correct the good news would be that there is a good chance that DH, like his bro, is producing healthy sperm, just missing the connection... bad news is that if I am also a carrier we have a 50% chance of having children with CF - we live in Ireland and there is a CF gene called the Celtic Gene and is very common here (obviously), we have high instances of CF and one of highest rates of multiple CF children per family.... so we can't rule out the possibility that I'm also a CF carrier, and it brings a new dimension to our decision and whether it would be morally acceptable for us to bring a child into the world that has a 25% chance of being extremely ill.... also because I don't think they would even implant a zygote that they thought had CF (and I read that they do screen) so our chances of even getting to IVF could be halved if they discard some/all

So anyway - we are currently waiting on the results of DH hormone tests and we've also been a bit pushy and got the GP to do the Karotyping and Y-chromosone thing at the same time (with the CF issue it's very likely that'll have to get done anyway so might as well save everyones time and get it done now). My GP is also looking into getting me screened for CF too so that we have all the info we need to make an informed decision.


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## Deb111

Found some info about high FSH, normal LH Silverbell

I'm sure the part about differentiating between the different causes may be of interest to others too.

FYI, my hubby's TESE report indicated some areas of hyalinization of the seminiferous tubules and same areas of sertoli-cell only syndrome, but as we also know from the few they found, also some tiny areas producing sperm normally.

"Primary gonadal failure in men and women leads to high levels of FSH and LH, *except in selective destruction of testicular tubules with subsequent elevation of only FSH*, as in Sertoli-cell-only syndrome"

"In the azoospermic man with normal-sized testes, the differential diagnosis includes hyalinization of the seminiferous tubules, Sertoli cell-only syndrome, gonadotropin deficiency, ductal obstruction, and maturation arrest. Plasma testosterone, LH (luteinizing hormone), and FSH (follicle-stimulating hormone) measurements are helpful in separating these conditions. With hyalinization of the seminiferous tubules LH and FSH are elevated, and plasma testosterone is low or borderline normal. Men with Sertoli cell-only syndrome usually have normal LH and testosterone, but elevated FSH levels. In gonadotropin deficiency LH, FSH, and testosterone are low, and in ductal obstruction or maturation arrest all endocrine studies are normal. To differentiate between the last two disorders, a testicular biopsy is necessary."


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## Flake-y

SIlverbell, I wouldn't look too much into the blood results. My DH's bloods all came back normal, & the urologist was very hopeful of finding sperm, thinking it was just a blockage. So it was a pretty big blow when the SSR didn't find any sperm at all.

I think you're always best to consider both scenarios, don't get your hopes up too much, but also, don't assume that one test rules out the possibility of finding sperm. Like Deb said, there still might be sperm there, in small numbers!!!


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## WANBMUM

Just wanted to send you hugs Silverbell. Wish I could say something worth while but I am still new to all this and really dont know too much about it, apart from what ive googled and with that i dont know what is true and what isnt. Im so confused.

My OH hasnt been sent for a blood test at all and it hasnt been mentioned?? he has had 3 SA's, a scan and next going for an ultrasound. There really doesnt seem to be a straight forward process does there.


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## waitingginger

Hi again bookworm!
i must say it would certainly seem to point to a gentic issue if your OHs brother also has Azoospermia!! as its so rare but at the same time i know its also a relief to have any form of answr as stops your mind from going into overdrive!

Wanbmum, so sorry you have ended up here but please feel free to rant away about all the rubbish doctors or how you are feeling!! its great you and OH can talk about it, i cried all the time at first but it really does get easier to deal with! :)

silverbell we at an encronologist at the moment! and i must say he is so knowledgable and i feel much more secure with him then with any of the urologits/fertility consultants we have seen so far.

we went to see him and he did an examination and then asked if OH would give 3 lots of blood samples and SAs over a 6 month period so he see the bloods which go with which SA and try and figure out what is happening. we were told that why his hormone levels were not correct they would not even consider an SSR as the likelihood of finding anything with abnormal hormone results was slim. the cause of the abnormal results would need to be fixed first.

we dont go back until september from what i have read my OHs results seem to point to secondary hypogonadism
xx


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## Deb111

Sounds like a very thorough endocrinologist Amy. It really does make all the difference when you find a professional you're happy with doesn't it? xx


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## WANBMUM

Thanks waitingginger, ya i hate being able to cry so easily! i was always an emotional person, but my eyes now can literally fill up in a second, Ive been like that for a few months now. I hope it does get easier :( 
Last weekend I was at my nephews play, my nephew wasnt even on stage but i got really emotional, a bunch of other little kids were up there & I was thinking if that was one of my children up there i would be so proud, while i was looking at all these parents really not wanting to be there, ha. Yes I am very emotional! Oh well. 
Hope the rest of you are ok today? :)


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## waitingginger

Yes, Deb feel much happier with the endocronologist although maybe ask em again after our next appoinment in sept! lol things seem to take a very long time!!

wanbmum, i know its sop hard i bloomin cry and everything! new years eve a random little girl about 3 came up to me gave me a hug and happy new year lady! that was it i was gone in absolute floods in a packed pub 

I think when we get our babies we will appreciate every little thing! even though this is a horrible thing to go through i think it will make us all the most amazing parents!!

xx


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## silverbell

Thank you everybody :hugs:

Deb, thank you for the information about Dr Turek but I have to admit I'm not a 'phone person' and will go out of my way to avoid a phone call at all costs, so this is just too much for me to do right now. However, at the advice of a lady on the FF boards, I did email Dr Schlegel in New York and he has replied to me :dance:

He said that I was right in that my evaulation of the results does point to testicular failure. However, he said most men with this condition can be effectively treated with sperm retrieval and IVF. He said we needed the Karyotype and Y chromosome tests. Does anybody know who is the best person to ask to get these done? Is it our GP or should we wait for the Urologist??? I'm so clueless. If it is our GP we will have to go to another one, as I have mentioned these tests twice to him now and he has just looked at me blankly.

Dr Schlegel also advised not to let him take Testosterone yet (which we knew) and that an advanced centre would really be best to provide the bgest results. He said a high FSH of 35 does not adversely impact the chance of successful sperm retrieval.

He also attached 2 very detailed 'handout's, which contain lots of information about NOA and the various success rates of sperm retrieval. I've only just started reading it, but it says that research suggests that at least 60% of men with NOA will actually have sperm production in the testes.

I know that we may still find that DH has nothing, but I must admit that this has given us a little bit of hope.

Also, we've been talking about getting Dr Ramsay to help us here as we want the best there is in the country and we will get a loan to pay for it if need be. However, I'm pretty sure that the NHS won't do IVF with privately frozen sperm. Does anybody know if this is correct? In which case, we'll probably go privately for all of it. 

We both agreed that we'd want to know 1 million % that there's just no sperm at all in there before going ahead with donor sperm and we feel that the best way to do this is to visit the best there is. 

Anybody got any thoughts?

Deb - after your initial appointment with Dr Ramsay, did he start your DH on Tamoxifen straight away to improve hormones or was that at your next appointment? Sorry I don't know, but obviously not 'known' you long and wasn't sure what the timeline was for that sort of thing, as I know he'll want to improve DH's hormones prior to doing any surgery.


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## Bookworm

silverbell said:


> He said we needed the Karyotype and Y chromosome tests. Does anybody know who is the best person to ask to get these done? Is it our GP or should we wait for the Urologist??? I'm so clueless. If it is our GP we will have to go to another one, as I have mentioned these tests twice to him now and he has just looked at me blankly.

Hi Silverbell - because of the familial link in our case the consultant pretty much told us straight of that when the bloods came back we would almost certainly have to get the Karyotype and Y-chromosone tests. They indicated that our GP might do it - stressing the might...

So when getting the bloods we decided to push a bit and see if we could get the GP to do it there and then - basically we had the blank stare you mentioned. Luckily my DH previously worked in labs so he has some experience and was able to suggest that they call the lab and ask if they can run the test and also how the blood should be collected (ie what tube do they use - with or without anti-coagulant).
In our case the lab said yes and it was to be collected in the red tube (with anti-coag.) - however I understand that you could also be refered to genetics for pre-natal consultation for this too(?) it was an option DH's GP was mulling over before DH suggested he just call the lab.

Perhaps you could convince your dr to make a similar call? Or is there another dr at the same surgery that you could opt to see instead if you've lost faith in this guy? Might be easier than switching surgeries entirely (I'm in the UK so basing this on the system over here - not sure where abouts you are)


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## silverbell

Thank you Bookworm! I actually work in the hospital, as does DH, and we live in England.

I will give them a call myself I think and see what they say. Can I just check if they would do CF testing too and, again, would this need to be something I need to ask the lab about how to test for etc?

Thank you!


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## waitingginger

I dont know about the Urologist, from my expereince they are pretty rubbish and look for any obvious causes and measure size fo testicles, the texture etc and then will forward you to to a fertility specalist! i remeber thinking why didnt we just come here first!

Endocronolgist will do all the blood tests though too!! i dint bother with our GP he openly admited he had never come across it before and ddint know a thing about it but that if we needed him to put pressure on getting tests done quicker or wanted more funding from PCT after we have exhausted all options then to speak to him again and he will try and get us anything we need!!

I think our endo did lots of stuff on our first appointment that a urologist would normally do anyway! my OH has had a thing about having small testicles and the endo had all these balls on a string and he examined my OH and said his werent small they were a 15 out of 20 and this wasnt small at all, its just they had been stiched closely together when he had an undescended testicle repaired as a child. )his testicles are now always known as his 15s lol)

from what i know it will be the endo more than likely who does all the indepth blood tests as i dont think a urologist would be able to interprate them? but perhaps i am wrong? it seems to work differently all over the country but we only saw a urologist once and we wont ever see another one, just the endo and the fertility speaclist!

xxxx


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## silverbell

Thank you so much, waitingginger.

I actually emailed one of our Pathology Consultants in the end and have asked her advice as to how a GP would go about ordering these tests. Reason being is I have no idea how long we'll be waiting for the Endocrinologist appointment and if we can at least get the ball rolling with these tests then that would be grand. If we have to wait for that appointment then so be it, but I figured it was worth trying.

Thanks ever so much. What you say makes a lot of sense and has all been taken on board. I did say to DH that I didn't think there was much a Urologist could do in terms of trying to help us conceive, but there you go! I guess you have to go down these routes first or something like that.

It's such a shame that so many of us ladies and their partners are left with so little information and really no idea as to what will happen next simply because GPs and other professionals aren't clued up at all about azoospermia. In the book I read recently that was a lady's account of how she and her husband went through the azoospermia route from start to finish, she said that at first their GP just told them there was no sperm, then told them she was sorry and showed them to the door! It's such an upsetting and shocking diagnosis that you would think GPs were a bit more well-informed. I know it's not a common problem, but that's still really no excuse. 

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. :haha:

Thanks so much to you all - you have all been so helpful and it's so reassuring to have you ladies to talk with.


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## Bookworm

Silverbell - I know what you mean, I don't think my GP had heard the term 'azoospermia' before and I had to explain it to her! 

On the CF screening I'm still chasing that up too - my GP had never come across the issue but has been very helpful and is trying to work out if they can do the test or have to refer us to the hospital for that one. Unfortunately no-one was answering the phone at the labs while I was there but they're going to follow it up and get back to me. If they can do the Karyotype & Y-chromosone you'd imagine they could do it....right? 

I'm only really worrying about CF because of this apparent family link - that certainly points to CF as a probability for us, and that's the only reason I want to be tested. (I wish DH would give me the all clear to quiz our SIL about it!! But he won't and I wouldn't go behind his back, specially to his side of the family - I'll just have to wait until we get our own answers!)

I have no idea of how common an issue this is - considering that it's not on the list of typical tests I'm guessing not very - so please don't add another stress on yourself! This whole thing is bad enough without adding stuff - I hope I haven't given you another azoospermia bogey man to fear!


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## Deb111

Silverbell - I've answered your post about Dr Ramsay in my journal :flower:

There really doesn't seem to be a set way that these investigations are done does there?

Our GP did NO blood tests or SA's before referring us to the NHS fertility clinic. The clinic did my bloods and hubby's bloods, y chromosome test, karyotype and CF test. Since then the endo has ordered blood tests directly and our urologist writes to our GP to request bloods done on the NHS (our GP is very accomodating)


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## lemongal7

Hi ladies. Havent been on here in a while. We recently found out after much bloodwork and several visits to the endocrinologist, that DH has Kleinfelter's syndrome. Everything I'm finding says men with this syndrome are infertile 95-99% of the time. Are there any forums on here for people dealing with this? We've pretty much given up hope of having our own children, but in the back of my mind I hope we are one of the 1-4% that can achieve pregnancy! Wishful thinking!!!


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## silverbell

lemongal7 said:


> Hi ladies. Havent been on here in a while. We recently found out after much bloodwork and several visits to the endocrinologist, that DH has Kleinfelter's syndrome. Everything I'm finding says men with this syndrome are infertile 95-99% of the time. Are there any forums on here for people dealing with this? We've pretty much given up hope of having our own children, but in the back of my mind I hope we are one of the 1-4% that can achieve pregnancy! Wishful thinking!!!

Hi lemongal

DH has low testosterone and has been referred to the Endocrinologist and he appears to have some characteristics compatible with Klinefelter's. Not had this test yet, but will be pushing for it with the Urologist and Endocrinologist shortly.

Please don't despair. If you PM me your email I will send you an article that Dr Schlegel sent me (I believe he's the world's best at dealing with azoospermia). I was having a read last night and it's not all doom and gloom and there is specific reference to Klinefelter's and sperm retrieval. In fact it seemed to suggest that deletion of a particular y-chromosome was far more worrying. 

I think it's good to prepare yourselves for the worse, as we have, but it's also nice to have that bit of hope until proven otherwise and the information he sent me has certainly done that. PM me!


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## luckdragon

Hi girls, mind if i step in?

My name is Victoria, Dh is 32, and i'm 26 from Derbyshire!! Been ttc for over 18 months now and I knew there was a possible problem from day but it took us a long time to get anything done!!
Anyhoo to cut a long story short DH has azzoospermia as diagnosed after 3 Semen Analysis's showing nothing in them!! He had undescended testicles that were left untreated until the age of 15 which is very late on!!

we are both just waiting for the hospital now to decide wether we will be treated on the nhs or have to go private. And whther they can retrieve anything using ssr or we will have to look into the donor route...

hope everyone else is alrighty xxxx


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## silverbell

Hi Victoria :wave:

I'm so sorry you find yourself here, luckdragon :hugs:

Is there any reason why you guys shouldn't be treated on the NHS? I thought everybody was entitled to help on the NHS? It's all a bit confusing to be honest with their silly rules and government guidelines etc.


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## luckdragon

I'm not sure, i think funding is a bit sparse round here but i'll let you know as soon as we know 

i'm a bit annoyed with my other half, gone on a drinking weekend with about 12 other guys and he doesnt usualy smoke but they are a bad infulence and just when we don't need to be having bad influences the only thing he could say tome this morning was 'i'll try not too' (smoking whilst drinking)

men!!!! he usualy hates smoking and only does it to look cool, at 32 i see this as a bit silly but what would i know :-/


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## Bookworm

Hi Victoria, sorry you got bad news, but I bet you've been reading/researching loads and know that while this isn't good there is hope!

DH & I had a similar difference of opinion the weekend after we got the 2nd SA results and before he had another SA scheduled - my thought was do EVERYTHING to ensure that, if the is ANYTHING in there and able to get out, it is the healthiest, strongest, fastest it can possibly be - DH on the other hand really needed to blow off some steam and be a completely normal and inconspicuous one of the lads.... and with hindsight I can't really blame him & I think I was retreating from the world a bit to lick my wounds and consider things, and couldn't understand why he wasn't doing the same!

It's just been about 3weeks for us since whole issue appeared and has been confirmed and we're pushing really hard for tests to move asap. It's been really tough few weeks - one of the blackest periods of my life I have to say; but I am starting to come through it now, there'll still probably be a few bumps in the road but my coping mechanisms are starting to kick in now and I'm managing to balance between hope for ICSI & coming to terms with the notion of adoption.... like Silverbell said I think there is a need for realism here and once you start going down this road you have to accept that the answers might not be the ones you want... but as DH keeps saying: you're not out until you're out!

I'm also finding this thread really great for information/direction/support - particularly as we're not sharing this information with f&f unless we have to.

Really good luck with NHS! I hope you get a smooth/fast run of it in your region:flower:


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## WANBMUM

Hi Girlies, 
how are you all? Its Fridayyyyy! thankfully!
Welcome Luckdragon, sorry you find yourself here :( it sucks! But this lot are a great bunch and understand the ups and mainly downs of what we are going through. Im sure your husband dealing with the news his own way, I say let him smoke, he prob hasnt been able to (or allowed hehe) for the last 18 months and now he can I guess. 
I think its really hard to know exactly what our men are going through, only by their actions. It must be so hard for them, i think the look on my husbands face after the last test was enough for me. :(
I do believe we will all get there, on whatever road we have to go on, but one day we will all hold our most precious babies in our arms and our babies will be so blessed as we have wanted them SOOOOOOO much :)


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## WANBMUM

I wanted to ask you all a question. Its something I am having issues with lately.

Have you told family/friends about LTTTC and have you told them the reasons why? We havent spoken to anyone about any of it and I feel like I need/want to talk to someone as I feel I dont want to burden my husband with alot of it as I know he is going through enough and I am trying to be strong for him. I think I want to talk to my mother as I know I can trust her and I know she will be supportive, but I think it will be weird telling her about my husband going for tests etc.
Do you worry that others will look at your husband differently? Not that I really give a toss even if they do, but i just worry for my OH. Maybe if I just say we are having difficulties and not go into the ins and outs.


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## Deb111

lemongal7 said:


> Hi ladies. Havent been on here in a while. We recently found out after much bloodwork and several visits to the endocrinologist, that DH has Kleinfelter's syndrome. Everything I'm finding says men with this syndrome are infertile 95-99% of the time. Are there any forums on here for people dealing with this? We've pretty much given up hope of having our own children, but in the back of my mind I hope we are one of the 1-4% that can achieve pregnancy! Wishful thinking!!!

Sorry to read this hun :hugs: Might be worth you putting starting a thread in 'male factor' to see if anyone else is going through this particular issue? When I started this thread I only knew of 2 others on here dealing with azoo and now there's a load of us so you never know. 

Just wanted to ask; I see in your signature it talks about testosterone therapy - what therapy is that? xx


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## Deb111

Welcome Victoria - I'm glad you found us :flower:

I hope you get some good news about funding soon xx


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## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> I wanted to ask you all a question. Its something I am having issues with lately.
> 
> Have you told family/friends about LTTTC and have you told them the reasons why? We havent spoken to anyone about any of it and I feel like I need/want to talk to someone as I feel I dont want to burden my husband with alot of it as I know he is going through enough and I am trying to be strong for him. I think I want to talk to my mother as I know I can trust her and I know she will be supportive, but I think it will be weird telling her about my husband going for tests etc.
> Do you worry that others will look at your husband differently? Not that I really give a toss even if they do, but i just worry for my OH. Maybe if I just say we are having difficulties and not go into the ins and outs.

I think I'm in an unusual situation to be honest ... Initially I was worried that hubby would bottle it all up and not talk to anyone, so I was really pleased to come in the day after we found out, to hear him on the phone confiding in his best mate. We told my parents straight away as I can't (and wouldn't want to) hide anything from them - especially my Mum and I confided in a couple of close friends. I have to say I have immense admiration for any of you girls who manage to keep this totally to yourselves and put on a front for the rest of the world. I could put a front on at work etc as long as I knew I had people to come home and talk to, cry to etc.

But after that it just went on and on - of course I'm glad that Terry isn't ashamed or embarrassed, but he is SO open with everyone about his issue and treatment and surgery etc I find it hard that we can never meet up with people and forget about it all for an evening - it always comes up because EVERYONE knows! It's a weird feeling stepping out of the front door knowing that the next door neighbour knows and his couple of best mates and the pharmacist in boots when he got his wellman conception!! I bet even the postman knows!!!! :dohh: I think it must be his way of getting reactions out of people so that he doesn't feel he needs to hide it or be ashamed of it.

If I were you I would talk to 'someone' in the flesh - you need someone you can confide in and in my experience it needs to be someone other than your hubby as you don't want them to feel guilty when you're having a really down day xx


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## WANBMUM

Thanks Deb :) 
Yes I think it is time as I am starting to feel I'm consumed with it. But I know what your saying about everyone knowing and not having a break cos there are so many days u just don't want to think about it or talk. I think that is what has stopped me talking. Also we were thinking we would find out for definate what the issue is and what way our path is going, ie, if we have to get donor sperm, will we be open to everyone or just close family etc etc. 
But thanks I appreciate your reply. I think I've kind of decided if the opportunity arrises or the right time, I will speak to my mother. (although not sure how I'll bring this one up lol)


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## HopingTC2011

Hi Ladies,

This is my first post on this site. I came across this conversation in my internet searches. This board seems like a great group of supportive women who are all (unfortunately) being faced with this terrible obstacle.

DH was dx with azoospermia a few weeks ago. We were heartbroken and cried the entire night - but I kicked into action and found one of the best urologists in our area who specializes in MI. We had an appt with him last Thursday but they rescheduled at the last minute. These have been the longest 4 (additional) days of waiting and we finally have an appt tomorrow. I know we probably will not get a log of information on our first visit but I was hoping you all would have some insight into what to except from a first visit.

Not to self-diagnose, but I suspect DH's azoospermia is due to medications that he's on for anxiety and depression. I've read that antipsychotics can cause this...and he's on THREE! Has anyone on this board faced that? I fear him wanting to come off the medications to have a biological child, but I also fear that he will not be able to function without his meds. He's under the care of a great psychiatrist so I know this isn't really my problem to solve, but this is the way I am. I think about everything...all the time.

(Sorry if this was a long intro!)


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## Deb111

Hi HopingTC - I'm glad you've found us :hugs:

Where do you live? Has your dh had any other tests done yet except from a SA? It seems the order we've all had stuff done in has been totally different and done by different people

I really hope you get some positive news tomorrow xx


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## silverbell

WANBMUM I just wanted to say that I told my mom last week and although it was a very upsetting phone call (re-hashing it all and hearing her obvious sadness), I felt immediately better and glad I'd told her. DH had given his blessing for me to tell my parents if I felt it would help. It's just been nice having somebody else know to be honest in the offline world. It doesn't feel like you're quite dealing with it all by yourself if you see what I mean. DH hasn't told a soul yet - he has given his boss an idea of what's going on, but not actually told her exactly, but that's as far as it goes. He says he doesn't want to tell his parents yet and doesn't feel the need to, but I imagine he will at some point.

I also note your point about whether people would look at him differently etc? I didn't find this at all with my parents. They're just more concerned about him and how terrible he must be feeling and keep telling me to be strong for him and to just be there for him. They've been lovely about it. My mom's also well up for the use of donor sperm if need be, which really surprised me. She said she would have done that if they'd had the same problem. I was ever so shocked. I thought I might as well tell her about donor sperm, because DH and I have already decided it's the route we'll go down if we find he doesn't have any and we'd also be very open about the fact with close family and friends, so at least she got a warning sort of thing.

Glad you found us, hoping. The waiting is excrutiating and we're only at the start of our journeys. That's one of the reasons we're considering getting all treatment done privately - we just want things to happen sooner rather than later. The waiting is worse than WTT and the 2ww a million times over! :thumbup:

I hope you get the answers to lots of questions tomorrow. :hugs:


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## HopingTC2011

Thanks, ladies. I'm from the US (NYC) so we're lucky to have some of the best (and most expensive!) doctors around. So far DH only had a SA. I'm assuming tomorrow he'll have at the very least some blood work. I'm not really sure what else there is to do. I'm pretty confident it's medications that he's on that causes this, and not a blockage or anything. But again, these aren't meds he can come off of. :nope:

Do you all go with your DHs to their appts? I took the day off last week to go with DH but then the appt was rescheduled and I can't take off again tomorrow. It's not far from my office but it's hard to get away for so many hours...but I really want to be there for DH and hear was the dr has to say.


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## waitingginger

first, welcome to all the newbies but at same time so sorry to see you here!
i cant believe how many new joiners we have had lately! and shocking that if there are this many of us why the doctors dont seem to know what they are doing!!

we started off not really telling anybody becuase my OH said everybody would laugh at him, but as time has gone on (15th months since we found out) oh doesnt mind telling people now all of our family and friends know. it got easier to be able to tell people instead of getting all the oh you will be next, plus we were all over the place and it really helped having people to talk to.

hope you are all ok! xxxx


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## mumanddad

Welcome sorry you have had to join the group hun there is some wonderful ladies here that have some great advice x


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## WANBMUM

Thanks Silverbell - that is great to know - Im so happy to hear your parents are being so good, it gave me tears in my eyes them telling you to stay strong for him :) You are very lucky and for your mum to be so open to donor sperm. Wow. Question, did u cry while telling them? (what i worry about is starting to cry and not stopping lol)
I think I have made up my mind to speak to my mum but i will wait until that time just happens. I know she will be so supportive but I'm also apprehensive to tell her as i know she will be so upset for me as she knows how much Ive always wanted babies all my life. 
Hopingtc2011, I havent been to ANY of my hubby's app/tests. mainly because my work are not the best to get time off and i dont want to explain to them but secondly my OH wants to do it all alone, he is always like this, likes to just get on with it. he did say if i wanted to go i could but he would prefer to do it by himself. 
Waitingginger, I KNOW they really dont have a set process, it seems like whoever you see has their own way of doing things. Surely it should be ABC. I dont know :(


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## WANBMUM

For those in UK/Ireland, there is a programme/documentary on Channel 4 tomorrow night to do with donor sperm. I think its a story following a girl conceived by donor sperm and her story to find her biological father. 
I hope its a positive experience as sometimes these docu only show extreme bad cases.


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Thanks Silverbell - that is great to know - Im so happy to hear your parents are being so good, it gave me tears in my eyes them telling you to stay strong for him :) You are very lucky and for your mum to be so open to donor sperm. Wow. Question, did u cry while telling them? (what i worry about is starting to cry and not stopping lol)
> I think I have made up my mind to speak to my mum but i will wait until that time just happens. I know she will be so supportive but I'm also apprehensive to tell her as i know she will be so upset for me as she knows how much Ive always wanted babies all my life.

Thanks for the heads up about the donor sperm program :thumbup:

I did cry when I was telling my mom, but not full on bawling. My voice shook a lot and I had to take a few deep breaths, but I just asked her to hang on and said it was difficult and she said it was OK and waited. I would have much preferred telling her to her face, but unfortunately we live 140 miles away and not due to visit for a while yet.

She was very upset for the both of us, as was my Dad apparently when she told him, but they were very sweet with it too and were very concerned about how DH was feeling. Like I say, I felt like there was a massive weight lifted off me when I told her for some reason. Just having shared it and having them know what we're going through has helped me somehow.


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## snd80

As far as telling our families, I told my sister and my aunt the day we found out. They knew all the troubles we were having, and of course wanted to know the outcome of each appt. My aunt (2nd mother really) cried with me and even offered to pay for the DI when the time comes. My older sister, who also had trouble TTC, cried with me as well but never really said much about the DI situation, just thought my hubby should go to the urilogist (which he won't go)... Now my mother had the best tact of them all! She pretty much told me that we couldn't afford DI and that adoption or having an affair were my only options. Then she quickly turned the subject onto herself and proceeded to tell my how bad her hair looked. Me, in a fit of tears now, said "well go fix your damn hair" and hung up. You would just have to know my mother to know how she is! I found it funny later, but not at the time. Hubby doesn't have much family left. He has one sister that we are close to and that is it. I told her. She offered to have a child for us, but it's not the same. It's amazing how different each family is...


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## HopingTC2011

Just wanted to post an update...

I went with DH to his urology appt today. The dr seemed really nice and answered all of our questions - we didn't have many since it's so early on though!

Then he examined DH and did an ultrasound. He said everything looked good, whatever that means. Then DH had blood taken. Now we wait 4 weeks(!!!) while the lab runs all the blood work, including genetic testing. We should know more when we go back in a month. I hope this month goes quickly so we can find out what our options may be.


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## silverbell

HopingTC2011 said:


> Just wanted to post an update...
> 
> I went with DH to his urology appt today. The dr seemed really nice and answered all of our questions - we didn't have many since it's so early on though!
> 
> Then he examined DH and did an ultrasound. He said everything looked good, whatever that means. Then DH had blood taken. Now we wait 4 weeks(!!!) while the lab runs all the blood work, including genetic testing. We should know more when we go back in a month. I hope this month goes quickly so we can find out what our options may be.

I hope it goes quickly for you too, hoping. I'm guessing that the doc meant that everything looked and felt normal from visual appearances ... whereas, for example, my DH had abnormal clinical findings on examination (small testes and 2 lumps in one sac, which we later found to be a cyst on ultrasound scan). Small testes are also a sign of testicular failure (not producing sperm). If everything looked good/normal then that has to be a good thing. Keeping everything crossed for you and I hope the scan and bloods shed some light on what's happening. :hugs:


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## Bookworm

HopingTC2011 said:


> Just wanted to post an update...
> 
> I went with DH to his urology appt today. The dr seemed really nice and answered all of our questions - we didn't have many since it's so early on though!
> 
> Then he examined DH and did an ultrasound. He said everything looked good, whatever that means. Then DH had blood taken. Now we wait 4 weeks(!!!) while the lab runs all the blood work, including genetic testing. We should know more when we go back in a month. I hope this month goes quickly so we can find out what our options may be.

Hi Hoping TC2011 - I know what you mean, the waiting is awful! This is the first time in my life that I've ever felt this urgency for something - even our wedding! When I get into bed I think thank god I got through another day, we're one closer - I really understand the "one day at a time" thing now!! 

I've been thinking lots about the 'to tell or not to tell' question... I think it really depends on the couple and the person/people you're thinking of telling. I'm really close to my mum, I've never had a secret from her before... but her family and having children is everything for her and in the past she has pretty much made it clear that her greatest desire for her daughters (DS & I) is that we have children so that we can be truly happy.... that's a lot of pressure when you find that having children is not as easy as all that! So for the first time in my life I find that I'm unable to confide in my mother... 

I have told my sister and in some ways I wish I hadn't. She had IVF (low SA results for them them) and up to the point were we got the news about 0sperm she was a great sounding board and really positive. But now she doesn't know how to handle it, she told me that after I told her she cried for me all night - that made me feel worse because it made me feel that it really is one of the worst things that could happen; she's a mother and she was crying that I might never have that... I really needed someone to help me through, not reflect my fears back at me.

I also told my BF via phone - she reacted more in the way I needed but she is very far away and again didn't know how to react and it was hard..... 

Plus of course with DH not wanting to tell anyone at all I chose the 2 I did tell very carefully! I had to know that it would go no further! But to be absolutely honest I'm not sure that telling people helped.... and once it's out there you can't take it back.


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## Pazienza

Hi everybody,

I do not post often but I read the posts very regularly.
I would like to give hope for everybody dealing with male infertility caused by high prolactin.

We were struggling with TTC from 2005 till 2008. Infertility cause: male infertility.

We had twice ICSI treatments without success and bad hyperstims twice.

After these treatments, I decided to go with alternative treatment.
For me: acupunture
For him: multivitamines + minerals and Pycnogenol.
3 months later his SA became almost normal ( 55 Millions / ml) despite his high prolactin...
5 months later I got pregnant. Our baby is now 2 years old.

We are trying our luck again: I sent dh to an urologist. Bad news: his SA is again bad and his prolaction is high.
His prolactin is twice high as the maximal allowed value...

Signs: his libido was not very weak.
He gots from an endocronologist dostinex and takes one tablet once a week. The libido is coming back , yeh!
He is taking his multivitamins/minerals and pycnogenol again.

So ladies, just to told you: if you are concerned with male infertility, see if the prolactin is high and testosterone low.

There are many solutions: an anti-prolactin like cabergoline.
And Pycnogenol, Multivitamins, Minerals, etc...

It can solve your problems! Do not give up!


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## WANBMUM

hi Bookworm. You hit the nail on the head, that is what i am so afraid of, once i tell someone ,I can never get that back, i can no longer hide from it and keep up the pretence that everything is rosey and I really dont want people asking me when we really have nothing to say or dont want to talk about it.
Thanks for your update Pazienza, it is so great to hear a success story and hopefully you will have success number 2 very soon. Question? as i have no idea what/why prolactin affects male fertility, Did your OH have NO Sperm in his SA?


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## WANBMUM

Thanks silverbell, Yes whereas i would love to tell my mother over the phone, lol, no eye contact,lol. Your mom sounds great, your very lucky. I know my mum will be too, but i dont think i am quite ready to talk about it just yet, maybe soon, after I have dealt with it a bit more maybe. 
SND80 - thanks :) it goes to show really everyones reaction is different and maybe you never can tell what they will say or do. That was really nice of your sister in law to offer. 
Yes i hope this programme on tonight is good and not a horror story. Im sky plussing it as not sure if OH will want to watch. Keep u posted :)


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## Pazienza

Hi Wanbmum,

Yes, I read a lot about high prolactin and effects on male fertility/infertility.
High prolactin is caused by prolactinomas ans some big prolactinomas can cause severe OAT or azoospermia...
This prolactin problem was already there since years. But no doctor realised that high prolactin could be a cause.


The urologist has sent hubby to an endocronologist and he became a generic for cabergoline. He will receive the results for his SA soon. I will update then.


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## Deb111

Info about high prolactin copied from my journal ... 
Just been doing some more research into high prolactin levels so thought I'd pot it here so I can look back at it easily if needed

Men can also have high prolactin levels. Typically, these men have azoospermia , decreased libido and erectile dysfunction. While this is not common, if diagnosed properly, it can be very effectively treated with medications !

The hormone prolactin is generally only thought of as a factor in female infertility, but in fact, prolactin also plays a role in male fertility. If you are suffering from male infertility, you may want to investigate prolactin in order to find out if it may be affecting your reproductive capabilities.

Prolactin is a hormone that is secreted by both men and women. It is released by your pituitary gland, an organ responsible for regulating many of your bodys functions, including reproduction. The pituitary gland is a small, bean-shaped organ located in the middle of your brain. Your pituitary gland releases prolactin on a daily basis, both in the morning and throughout the night. Certain activities like sexual intercourse and exercise also cause your pituitary gland to release prolactin.

Hormones Regulating ProlactinProlactin is actually regulated by other hormones that your body produces. These include:

 dopamine (which blocks prolactin) 
 serotonin ( which triggers prolactin release) 
 thyroid-producing hormone (which also triggers prolactin) 

Effects on Male Fertility
Like prolactin infertility in women, prolactin can also affect male fertility. In fact, if you have too much prolactin in your blood stream it can cause you to become infertile. 

High prolactin levels have an adverse affect on the function of your testicles, and can cause decreased testosterone levels or abnormal sperm. This can cause serious problems when it comes time to conceive. Normal prolactin levels in men are typically less than 15 ng/mL. Elevated prolactin may indicate a condition called hyperprolactinemia, and this could account for your fertility difficulties.

Hyperprolactinemia
You can be diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia when you have more than 15 ng/mL of prolactin in your bloodstream. Symptoms of excess prolactin are often internal and difficult to see. Symptoms can include:
 decreased sperm count 
 hypogonadism (in which your testes do not produce the right amounts of testosterone) 
 decreased sex drive 
 impotence


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## silverbell

I watched the sperm donor program. Won't give it away if you've not seen it but just to give others an idea ... The main donor conceived girl was born to lesbian mothers and a couple others were the same. No mention of azoo. The sperm donor is highly eccentric and seemed more interested in a pigeon than the children who had come to meet him. The only relevant parts to the program for me were the kid's reactions to being told they were donor conceived and just how they felt about it. Other than that I must say I wouldn't recommend it! But you guys might feel differently.


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## hippiehappy

Hi Deb/ all, I am 31 years old and my hubby is 27 (nearly 28). We have been together for 8 and a half years and married since April.
Hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia about 12 months ago. We live in Manchester and found that there is ONE male fertility doctor in all of Greater Manchester :nope:. 
It took 6 months to get an initial appointment to see her, she ordered some tests which took another 2 months to get back. The follow up appointment was 6 months after the 1st one, and that only to get test results! 
After TTC for 4 years I had a breakdown in September 2010 and by March 2011 hubby agreed to go and see the doc at her private clinic. 
As it happened, he had to be put on the waiting list for TESA which she said would take about 18 months on the NHS so we decided to go private. By the way, in case anyone is wondering, it cost us approximately £2,700, which was the best money I have spent in my life. The private appointment with the doc was March 30th, the appointment for the TESA op on May 16th (6 weeks instead of 18 months!!! :thumbup:) and they were able to recover 16 straws (strands?) of sperm which is now frozen while waiting for IVF/ICSI on NHS. Apparently the waiting list for that in my area is 'weeks rather than months' and though I have now been waiting 4/5 weeks to hear from them for an appointment to do all the paperwork and start the tests, I feel a lot better knowing that hopefully now things will be moving forward a bit quicker.
My advice would be that if you are findng it hard to cope with all the waiting, GO PRIVATE. I know it's expensive but I got to the point where even bad news would have been better than no news month after month. If you get referred from your GP, get to see someone and then have to wait months or even years for anything else to happen, it's not worth it. Believe me. Your mental health is the most important thing of all and you can't put a price on it.

Also I would like to say that thanks to the new ConDemn government the PCT's in the Greater Manchester areas have now reviewed funding for IF and ICSI, with some authorities such as Stockport and Warrington giving couples NO CYCLES on the NHS. I am very lucky to live in Salford where at the moment the PCT is still providing 2, but my heart goes out to all those couples who will be affected by this. Keep your chin up, keep the faith and if you have to, move. It will be worth it in the end. 

Feel free to contact me if you live in the area and are going through the same or just if you want any more advice or info on TESA and the Greater Manchester way and I will do my best to help.
Lots of love to all Long Term TTC xx


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## Deb111

Welcome to the group and it's lovely to hear a positive story :thumbup:

Were you ever given any reasons for the azoospermia?

Wishing you all the best on the next part of your journey xx


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## hippiehappy

Hi, yes the reason is his tubes are very very blocked, the doc reckons it was due to an infection. Sadly it wouldn't be possible to unblock them but at least we know there's something in there that can be extracted again and hopefully what they got this time will be enough for 1 full cycle, possibly more than 1 go too... But not getting too carried away.
Thanks for your response and good luck to all again xx


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## WANBMUM

Thanks for the info deb :) there really is so mch to know! 

Silverbell I just watched that programme tonight, have the same views as you, as they were lesbian couples babies the kids were searching for a 'dad', so completely diff to any of our cases may be. Ya wasn't he strange, could only love animals, that's what drugs do I guess. 
Thanks hippyhappy, that is really good to hear, I hope ur dreams come true very soon. Here in Eire, because our health system is so messed up it really doesn't matter if your public or private, waiting times are the same :( terrible really.


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## silverbell

Hi hippiehappy and thank you for sharing your story so far.

I was interested in this because I thought I'd read somewhere that privately retrieved frozen sperm couldn't be used in an NHS IVF cycle? Have you heard of this before? I wonder if it's just my PCT's rules or whether I just read false information?

You've also reconfirmed to me that going privately, at least to start with, is the way to go.

Thanks so much and I hope we have a very happy ending for you soon. :hugs:


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## hippiehappy

Hey Silverbell, no problem. As far as I know, technically you could retrieve sperm from anywhere say if you use a donor who is in another city so that sounds strange to me...
We've been told that once we're ready to go we can go and collect it and take it to the hospital where we will be doing the ICSI. if we don't want to do it ourselves they can arrange for a courier but apparently that costs about £500!
Again, any q's please ask x


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## Bookworm

Hi Silverbell, we're only at the investigation stage but I definitely echo happyhippie - the waiting is hell and if you have the option go private.

In this situation - where natural conception has been completely ruled out (not unlikely/difficult but impossible) the NHS wait is torture! We still don't even have an official diagnosis of azo via NHS! And we probably won't have it for another 3-6 months! And that'll just be to schedule another round of hormone/gene tests so it could be end of next year before we would know on the NHS if we can have children of our own - privately we have been told that we'll know by the end of July! And all things being well they are confident that we'll have an ICSI cycle before the end of the year.

At the moment I'm counting us very lucky to have the flexibility to do this privately while working through the NHS too. I feel for anyone who finds themselves in this limbo with no option but to plod through NHS waiting lists. I think I would definitely find myself in happyhippie's position with a breakdown (I was almost there as it is!).

*BTW just an update on where we are- DH hormone results all back normal but GP received a call from the labs to say they wouldn't do the Karyotype/Ychrom/CF as request came from private clinic (this is after GP phoned them and they said they would:growled:). So with hormone's down we're a step closer to our suspicion the CF is the cause... but private fs will probably recommend the tests done through them before the PESE (which is more money but as above, well worth it)


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## silverbell

I agree the waiting is terrible and we've only just started. It's horrendous and you're stuck in complete limbo knowing you can't get pregnant and just waiting and waiting and not even being able to do anything to improve the situation.

We had another chat last night and we both feel we just want to speak to somebody who knows what they're talking about and get things moving. 

We are still in a bit of debt (DH's side), but we'll most likely be taking out a loan to pay for private treatment. Otherwise I genuinely believe we'll both end up depressed and struggling just to get through each day. Funnily enough I even said last night that I could easily see how you could have a nervous breakdown over this diagnosis.

Bookworm, not sure if you've already done this, but it may be worth speaking with one of the Pathologists at your local hospital and asking them if they do the Karyotype, Y-chromosome and CF carrier blood tests there and, if not, where they can test for these and, if so, how you go about requesting them. I found out that my local hospital didn't do it, but the Pathologist suggested I try Southampton. I contacted Southampton to be told it was the Wessex Genetics Service. Contacted them and they said that this was no problem and they just needed a brief note from the referrer to say what they were testing for and why and we could have the blood taken at our local hospital and posted first class to them to test over there! We've yet to ask anybody to do this, but I hope this helps. It may well be worth checking this out before having to get it done privately. Anything to save more money.


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## luckdragon

hi girls how you all doing? sorry i've not been on for a while, i decided to give thinking bout it all a bit of break lol but had mine and dh's first urology appointment through today for the 27th of july so i thought i'd let you know  mwah xxxx


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## waitingginger

Hi all!
Hippiehappy i am also in Manchester! was it Dr Sajad you saw at St Marys? we saw her but got referred to an endocronologist Dr Wu due to my OHs irregular blood work.
The wait to see Dr Sajad is ridiculous i am glad we got reffered to someone else! 

We are going to wait out the NHS way for now because i am 26 so we figured even if it takes a couple of years we still have plenty of time to go privately afterwards. (my next 2 bonus payments needs to go on our wedding:wedding:) :happydance:

Hope you all have a great weekend! i am on coundown until we go on holiday 5 weeks tomorrow!! then see our endocronologist about 5 weeks after we are back!
xxxx


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## hippiehappy

Hey, yes it is Dr Sajjad. She did the operation at her private clinic in Liverpool, which was worth it. His hormones were ok it was a purely mechanical issue but you're right about the wait to see her being silly!
Good luck with the trying x


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## KB38

Hi everyone, mind if I join you.? DH is 34. I am 32. We have been TTC since September last year whne we married. DH was diagnosed with azoospermia about two weeks ago and, just like that, my world turned upside down :cry::cry::cry:. 

We had a urology appointment yesterday where the urologist commented that DH's testicles were 'a little on the small side' and referred us for blood work which DH had done this morning. We should have the results on Tuesday and, all things going well, be referred to an FS later in the week. 

The urologist wasn't prepared to do any other tests because he said they were best done by a FS which makes me angry. Why in the world did we have to go there at all. The whole small testicle comment has made DH question his manhood and his self-esteem is totally shot. 

TBH with all the stress that this is putting us through there is a part of me that wonders whether this is really all worth it or if I should just cut my losses and move on with my life. This is v weird for me as I have been desparate for a baby for so long (just put it off with study and work).


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## silverbell

Hiya KB :hugs: I'm so glad you found this wonderful thread and I'm just so sorry you're another couple going through this terrible diagnosis. My DH was diagnosed 1 month ago yesterday. 

Don't worry about the feelings with regards to just giving up. You'll still be in shock and it takes quite some time to start getting your head around things. In fact, I'm still trying. My mind still feels very much all over the place and I think all sorts of things. Don't over-analyse anything either of you are feeling at the moment - it's all normal and natural. :hugs:

My DH was also told his testicles were smaller than normal and the look on poor DH's face will stay with me forever. He looked like he was going to be sick and I think it was a mixture of worry and a knock to his confidence. DH was referred for a scan and for bloods (the scan because the GP could feel 2 lumps on one side of DH's testicles, which DH had known about anyway and it turned out it was a cyst).

The bloods showed he had very low testosterone and a high FSH (which proves testicular failure), so he was referred to an Endocrinologist as he needs some kind of hormone therapy to improve his health (not related to fertility).

As for the Urologist, we've not seen ours yet but due to see him in 1.5 weeks and I've already came to the same conclusion in that they won't be able to do much at all and he'll probably just send us away to see a FS. I think a lot of this comes about because GPs panic and honestly don't know where to send people with this diagnosis, as they very rarely come across it. I wish they were better informed because when you're given such a shock the last thing you need is the medical professionals floundering and not really knowing anything. In fact, our GP isn't even aware of sperm retrieval and how it can sometimes be successful for azoospermic men. He simply told us that we were left with donor sperm or adoption. :shrug: I thank heavens for the internet and the knowledge it can provide.

We're going to see a specialist privately very soon hopefully, as the waiting is not doing much for our mental health right now.

Keep talking to your DH and be as open as possible between each other. You need to be strong and supportive for each other and you'll both be going through your own personal grief and sadness. He is absolutely not 'less of a man' due to the azoospermia or small testicles. If anything, he's more of a man because it takes a really strong man to get past this and move on and find peace with it. I have so much more respect and admiration for my DH since the diagnosis than I thought was possible and, despite everything, our relationship has gotten much stronger over the past month.

Thinking of you and please stick around on here. Everybody here is going through the same thing and that makes it a very safe and understanding place. :hugs:


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## hippiehappy

Hi KB38 & thanks for posting. I think what you're going through is like silverbell says completely normal. When I went through my rough patch at the end of last year that is exactly how I felt. I thoughtthis isn't worth it and just started going out and getting off my head. Apparently it's a way your brain reacts to protect you from grief. It's taken months of counselling to get me right again.
The good news is that one of the first things we were told is that male problems are generally easier to solve than female ones. 
I know this doesn't sound like much at the moment but like silverbell says, keep talking to each other. Doctors and fertiliy specialists usually go for the worst case scenario approach: we were told about considering donors and adoption as soon as the azoospermia was diagnosed, without him even having done the hormone blood tests!

My advice as well would be to try and see a fertility specialised counsellor. Ours has done us the world of good as a couple, I couldn't recommend it enough.
I know just the thought that you now need to consider this is depressing, I broke down when they told us the solution would be ICSI. it's like the reality of the situation bashes you in the face, but help is out there, even though sometimes it's no that easy to find.

Good luck and keep your chin up xx


----------



## Deb111

Hi KB38 and welcome :hugs:

Silverbell and Hippy have pretty much said it all perfectly. Be kind to yourselves and give yourselves time to grieve. I don't know where we get it from, but like all the other couples on here, you WILL get the strength to move forward with this and pursue your dream xx


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## WANBMUM

Hi kb and all you other lovelies :) 
So sorry your here with us kb, it really sucks but being here with this support really helps and from people who understand completely what you are going through. 

Girls, I know this may sound weird or you will think I'm a freak but very occasionally (maybe I try to think like this to make me feel better) I feel in a way, we are almost lucky, maybe lucky isn't the word but I feel proud that we are getting through this nightmare together, in a crappy way me and oh have become closer, its like us againstthe world. we have been reminded how precious life is, I almost sorry for people who can have babies willy nilly as they will always take them for granted and never truly know how lucky they are, whereas when we finally have our precious baby, every second we will be grateful. 
Ok sorry, got carried away there, I hope some of u understand, I still wouldn't wish this situation on anyone and it breaks my heart every day but at least I have my husband :)


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## silverbell

I don't think it sounds weird and I don't think you're a freak and while I don't think we're lucky by any means I do understand what you're getting at there. My relationship with DH is a lot stronger already after just 1 month and I'd already thought it was solid before all this. I also think that we will definitely treat pregnancy and a child a bit differently to other people who have no fertility issues. It's only natural that those with infertility would feel much more blessed, having gone through so much to get that end result.

However, having said all that ... I still wish we could just have sex and get pregnant like so many other couples :blush:


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## WANBMUM

Ya I wonder what it's like to have sex and get pregnant? I almost dont put the 2 together anymore. :( 
Only 20 days until the U/S, it is going quick I guess and even though it kills me to wait, in a way it's given us time to process what may be ahead, at the moment we are feeling alot different than 5 weeks ago. Maybe that's because it's not as fresh or even real, the time around tests is the worst :( ok I'm waffling again ;)


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## twilliamssbt

Ok here goes, my partner had a pituitary gland tumour in 2001, excess growth hormone and raised prolactin, low testosterone, low cortisol, low LH low FSH.

He has Acromegaly, his cousin has a prolactinoma, it seems his family carry a gene mutation on the AIP gene which codes for a tumour supressor gene.

On diagnosis he was 23, I was also 23.

In 2006 he had SA which was total azoospermia, I worked in the lab that tested the sample and I saw the slides myself, (only after the doctor had given the result officially etc etc).

In May this year after not using protection for 5 years, due to the previous azoospermia result, we approached the Endocrinology Professor that overseas his treatment about fertility treatment.

He informed us that HCG injections 3 times a week would within 6 months raise his count from 0 to enough for natural conception.

Our GP sent the funding referral to our PCT in May, and because he has issues with erections at times due to the hormone imbalance was also referred to a Urologist. The urologist is sorting the erections, and there is considerable improvement, but he also asked for 2 semen samples for analysis before the fertility treatment could begin.

Here was the big shocker, since the azoospermia result, he now has a low count with some progressive motility problems (I have berated him for not getting figures when he phoned the GP for the results). Even our GP was shocked at the increase in sperm.

He has been taking all the hormone replacements he needs day to day, 4 years ago he was also swapped from Sandastatin LAR growth hormone supressor to Somavert, which finally has got his IGF-1 level back in the normal range (IGF-1 is the representative test for measuring Growh Hormone levels, random levels change depending on time of day), he has been on Cabergoline daily since 2001 to decrease his prolactin and allow his testosterone to increase. His testosterone has been one of the complicated ones to get stable, and often goes up and down in bad swings.

We are now trying actively on our own charting while waiting for all the doctors to get their acts together to decide on the next step and acquire funding.

We were kind of gutted a few weeks back when we found out his tumour is hereditary and that our children will be DNA tested for the mutation before they are 4 years old as this is the gene responsible for pituitary gigantism. We have been assured that we will be entered into the study at Barts and London hospital and our children will be monitored closely for any signs of increased growth hormone, Prolactin and dips in other hormones along with MRI scans yearly for those who carry the gene mutation.

I am so lucky I have a medical background even though retired after an accident, it was me that put two and two together when we found out about his cousin and contacted the professor in London who discovered the gene mutation. She thinks my partners tumour began in adolescence which technically makes him giant in comparison to his parents even though he is only 6'4 and usually giants are approaching 7 foot if not more.

There can be light at the end of the tunnel, but undiagnosed endocrine problems really can play havoc on fertility for both men and women.


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## Deb111

Hi twilliam and welcome to the thread

It's really interesting to hear how everyone's azoospermia stories are so different and with so much info to delve into, it really sounds like your medical background is a godsend. I really hope you get some positive news soon. Keep us posted xx


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## silverbell

Hi everybody

Hubby has found out today that he has to have an operation on his nasal passage to remove and straighten some cartilidge (is causing him problems with sleeping and breathing).

This has to be under general anaesthetic and apparently will be done within 5 weeks, as it's just a day case op.

Does anybody happen to know whether general anaesthetics effect the treatment of azoospermia in so much as a biopsy in the future or medication etc? I'm pretty sure it would be fine, but DH is concerned that this might further delay any treatment, as we're hoping to go privately for everything. I have emailed Mr Ramsay to ask him, but as it's his first day back today after leave I realise this may take a while and wondered if any of you knew so we could get DH put on the list rather than waiting for a reply?


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## Deb111

Sorry SB I don't really know. My instinct would be that it wouldn't be a problem, but I understand the concern. Could you get him on the waiting list anyway ? - you can always cancel it xx


----------



## silverbell

No probs, Deb. Yeah that's what I've told him. I actually think from bits he's told me today that he's trying to delay it because he's worried about the effect it's going to have on my current state of mind, bless him.

I'll keep persuading him! Thank you x


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## waitingginger

Hi twilliam

Thanks for your post really interesting! my OH is so scared his azoospermia is caused by a brain tumour, his testosterone and FSH and LH are also low, nobody seems to be considering a tumour as a possibility, we havent had a scan but i think i am going to ask when we go back in Sept, even if its just to put his mind at rest!

I really hope you have luck naturally very soon!
xxxx


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## twilliamssbt

waitingginger said:


> Hi twilliam
> 
> Thanks for your post really interesting! my OH is so scared his azoospermia is caused by a brain tumour, his testosterone and FSH and LH are also low, nobody seems to be considering a tumour as a possibility, we havent had a scan but i think i am going to ask when we go back in Sept, even if its just to put his mind at rest!
> 
> I really hope you have luck naturally very soon!
> xxxx

I see you are in Manchester, has your OH been referred to an Endocrinologist yet, Professor Trainer at Christie is an amazing endocrinologist and is very versed with pituitary disorders as well as tumours. He is my other halfs Endo.

There does not necessarily need to be a tumour for his hormone levels to be out, a good Endo will do further blood tests and an MRI however.

Has he had cortisol, prolactin and Thyroxine checked yet. Am presuming Testosterone, LH and FSH were performed as you had problems with fertility. Possibly following an azoospermia result.

Thank you, fx for your OH too x


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## waitingginger

hi yep we are seeing an endocronologist Dr Wu at Manchester RI in fact...

We have had the most amazing letter today 

' i am pleased to report that your analysis on 8th June showed a return of spermatogenesis with a sperm concentration of 4.2x10^6/ml. although this is still relatively low this is an encouraging sign'

soooo... woohoo for us. i dont know much about the levels so dont know what 4.2 means i am assuming 4.2 million!! even if his sperm count is now just low atleast there is some there for TESE/IVF etc!!!! 

thats all the letter says no reason for why it might of gone up etc, so i suppose we will find out more when we go in september!!!

i am just in absolute shock! i have been crying like a baby and jumping up and down its just so unexpected!!!

Hope you are all having a good weekend!!


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## Deb111

What amazing news!!!!!!! SO thrilled for you both! :headspin: :headspin: I'm no expert, but even if they still want to do ICSI - which they may well want to; let's hope they don't need to do the TESE now. And who knows?? No harm in trying naturally - it only takes one :spermy: and 4.2 million is a lot more than 1 !!!! :happydance:

Remind me what meds hubby has been on? It was a hormone issue right? xx


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## twilliamssbt

waitingginger said:


> hi yep we are seeing an endocronologist Dr Wu at Manchester RI in fact...
> 
> We have had the most amazing letter today
> 
> ' i am pleased to report that your analysis on 8th June showed a return of spermatogenesis with a sperm concentration of 4.2x10^6/ml. although this is still relatively low this is an encouraging sign'
> 
> soooo... woohoo for us. i dont know much about the levels so dont know what 4.2 means i am assuming 4.2 million!! even if his sperm count is now just low atleast there is some there for TESE/IVF etc!!!!
> 
> thats all the letter says no reason for why it might of gone up etc, so i suppose we will find out more when we go in september!!!
> 
> i am just in absolute shock! i have been crying like a baby and jumping up and down its just so unexpected!!!
> 
> Hope you are all having a good weekend!!

Yep 4.2x10^6 is 4.2 million, writing x10^6 means 10 with 6 zeros, easier than messing up the numbers and having to count the amount of zeros you enter onto a report.

Good news about the endocrinologist, he may well be able to explain what is going on, and why sperm levels increased.

Good Luck trying x


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## waitingginger

well he hasnt been takin anything thats what so strange!! the only thing that has been diffirent is that the endo told him to stop taking all the vitamins i had got him taking because these could interupt his hormones.

when he has had his tests before he has never had the blood and semen at the same time, the endo asked him to do that so he could work it out, i think because the results of the SA and the bloods never quite matched up.

i am in shock thats it managed to go up with nothing! i dont know whether they are dead or not or swimming around, in all his other SAs it has always said eveidence of dead sperm but too few to count!
i dont know if 4.2million is enough to get pregnant with naturally! who knows!!
so unbelievablly excited as your right deb there shouldnt be an issue with ICSI if thats the route we have to go down!!


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## WANBMUM

Wow waitinginger! What amazing news, so happy for you. Bet your hubby is thrilled!!! Congrats! I've heard of people getting preggo on alot less than that! 
That is crazy to think the vitamins were more than likely doing more harm than good. Who would have thought! (mine gave up taking his ages ago) 
Keep us posted on what's next :)


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## wibble wobble

Hiya is it ok for me to join your thread (i'm new to this forum,but I'm on a few others)

I'm 29 and hubby is 32 (well almost,he got really defensive a couple weeks ago when I mentioned 32 bless I think he's worried about getting old! lol) We got the intial diagnosis of azoospermia from our gp in March and got referred to Liverpool Womens gynae outpatients for more tests. Hubby had another sa,bloods for hormones,gene defects and an ultrasound and then we got the official diagnosis of Non Obstructive Azoospermia. He has a raised fsh level which Dr Lewis Jones says is an indication of maybe mumps having caused it. All other hormones were fine so no probs with the pituitary gland and no gene defects,ultrasound was also normal. So the next step for us is for hubby to have a tese,so we're now waiting for an appointment to arrive. The Dr couldn't tell us how long we'd be waiting as they were in the middle of changing management and the procedure is being moved from broadgreen hospital to the womens so they need time to implement this too. So far we've been waiting 5 weeks and it seems like a life time,I really wish I knew how long we'd be waiting so I had something to focus on. I've had my bloods done on day 21 and 3 and all results are normal,think I have to wait until we are referred for tx until they do an ultrasound to check me out


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## Deb111

Hi Wibble Wobble and welcome :flower:

I think we all know how hard the waiting is - it just makes you feel like you spend half of your life in limbo!

Please make sure when you discuss the TESE with your specialist, that you ask them if they will freeze ANYTHING decent they find. We were told they'd freeze what they found until they only found 3 and then they destroyed them because they said it didn't meet their minimum criteria of 100!

All the best and keep us posted xx


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## KB38

Hi everyone, thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. I'm sorry I haven't replied until now - I've been hiding myself away, trying to process everything. 

DH's bloods came back late last week. They are:

FSH 17 U/L
LH 6 U/L
Prolactin 327 mIU/L
Testosterone 8.7 nmol/L

We are still waiting for the chromosome analysis etc.

From what I can tell the concerning ones are FSH and Testosterone. We have been told that it points to a 'primary deficiency of the testicle'. 

We are booked in for a TESE on Friday morning at 8am but doesn't sound too promising to be honest.

I've been doing lots of research and am coming up with nothing but am sure that I read, on this thread, the names of a UK and/or US doctor who specialised in the management of this sort of thing and who were happy to look at results and offer other suggestions. If so, could you please let me know.

In the meantime, if any of you have any other suggestions about which way to go, I'd really appreciate it. Its so hard to keep looking for solutions when you're basically being told there is nothing more that can be done.


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## silverbell

KB, don't give up hope. I got in touch with Dr Schlegel in New York by email and he replied and attached 2 interesting articles about azoo and basically it seems to me that blood results really don't give you an answer either way as to whether they'll find anything inside on TESE. Ie. there can be a guy with normal results and no sperm or there may be a guy with abnormal results and sperm found. I really do hope that Friday proves to be a day of celebration for you both.

Mr Jonathan Ramsay in London is the UK specialist in this area. He has been away on leave and has not responded to my email as yet, but once he does I shall be booking to go and see him with my DH. We just want to talk to somebody who specialises in this and knows what the heck they're talking about.

Don't give up hope and PM me with your email address if you'd like me to forward you the 2 articles. They're very medical and intense, but make some sense and are quite encouraging at a time when you need a bit of hope, no matter how small. :hugs:


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## hippiehappy

waitingginger said:


> hi yep we are seeing an endocronologist Dr Wu at Manchester RI in fact...
> 
> We have had the most amazing letter today
> 
> ' i am pleased to report that your analysis on 8th June showed a return of spermatogenesis with a sperm concentration of 4.2x10^6/ml. although this is still relatively low this is an encouraging sign'
> 
> soooo... woohoo for us. i dont know much about the levels so dont know what 4.2 means i am assuming 4.2 million!! even if his sperm count is now just low atleast there is some there for TESE/IVF etc!!!!
> 
> thats all the letter says no reason for why it might of gone up etc, so i suppose we will find out more when we go in september!!!
> 
> i am just in absolute shock! i have been crying like a baby and jumping up and down its just so unexpected!!!
> 
> Hope you are all having a good weekend!!

Hey waitingginger that is SUCH good news I'm over the moon for you guys! :happydance:
I see that you are in Manchester, we are too. Not sure if you have read my post, but we too have been dealing with azoospermia. Have you seen anyone at St Mary's Department of Reproductive Medicine yet? 
If your OH has sperm at all the TESE might not be necessary as I hope for your sake it will not be. We have had that done recently and sadly the wait for that on the NHS is over 12 months, which is why we went private. Also as I understand it, in cases of azoospermia where sperm is recovered via TESE or there is a low count you will probably be referred for ICSI to the IVF clinic again at St Mary's. I know a little bit about this as I am waiting for results to start DR'ing.
If you want some advice, whether it's on TESE or IVF/ICSI in Manc, feel free to contact me. We've had lots of dealings with Dr Sajjad who is probably who you would be referred to. Also, though I might be no expert on IVF/ICSI (as a first timer) I am finding out more as I go along so again, feel free to get in touch and I will do my best to answer.
Good luck and lots of hugs xx :hugs:


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## hippiehappy

wibble wobble said:


> Hiya is it ok for me to join your thread (i'm new to this forum,but I'm on a few others)
> 
> ..........
> 
> So the next step for us is for hubby to have a tese,so we're now waiting for an appointment to arrive. The Dr couldn't tell us how long we'd be waiting as they were in the middle of changing management and the procedure is being moved from broadgreen hospital to the womens so they need time to implement this too. So far we've been waiting 5 weeks and it seems like a life time,I really wish I knew how long we'd be waiting so I had something to focus on. I've had my bloods done on day 21 and 3 and all results are normal,think I have to wait until we are referred for tx until they do an ultrasound to check me out


Hi wibble wobble and welcome. You must be quite near me geographically, I'm in Manchester and we had TESE in Liverpool at Spire. Sadly, this had to be done privately as the wait in Manchester was over 12 months. I don't want to give you bad news as it all depends on the PCT so the wait in Manc might by all means be much much longer than L'pool. However in Manchester the consultant (1 male fertility specialist for the whole Greater Mcr area btw :nope:) now has to apply to the PCT for funding for TESE, which means you are completely at their mercy. I'm guessing that as time goes on, this will make the waiting list longer and longer. As soon as you are accepted in Manc and funding is approved, the W/L is about 12 months. I should say WAS actually as this is what we were told in December 2010 so probably even longer now?
Anyway like I said we went private in L'pool, reason being that the consultant we were seeing in Manc has a private clinic at L'pool Spire. We booked in to see her privately in March, got an appointment 10 days later and had the TESE op done 6 weeks after that. It might have been even quicker if we weren't going away on honeymoon in April :winkwink:.
I'm not an ambassador for private above NHS, but like I have said in other threads, do it if it will save you from having a breakdown. I waited, waited, almost had a breakdown, then went private. Best decision I ever made. I know perfectly well how the sitting around waiting is by miles the worst part. I just wish I had gone private when, after waiting 6 months to see a consultant, we were told that the follow up appointment to get the results would also be 6 months later!
Anyhow...
Please feel free to DM me if you want any advice on costs, time scales etc.


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## Deb111

KB38 said:


> DH's bloods came back late last week. They are:
> 
> FSH 17 U/L
> LH 6 U/L
> Prolactin 327 mIU/L
> Testosterone 8.7 nmol/L

The FSH and Testosterone are virtually the same as my hubby's and they found 3 perfectly healthy sperm when they did the TESE - the NHS / clinic wouldn't freeze them as they said their minimum was 100! Worth checking out before the procedure.

Even if they don't find any on Friday - don't despair - my hubby is currently on tamoxifen to raise his testosterone naturally and is a different man! I just hope it's having the same effect on his sperm.

As well as Dr Schlegl and Dr Ramsay, you could have a phone consultation with Dr Turek in the US - you get 10 mins and all it costs is the phonecall

Wishing you both bucketloads of luck for Friday xx


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## waitingginger

Hippie Happ- we are in Manchester yes, we got referred to St Marys and did see Dr Sajad then she reffered us to an Endocronologist at MRI Dr Wu because OHs hormones were all over the shop.

You know i have been thinking nobody has ever sat there and said you have Azoospermia to us never had an offical diagnosis and the 2 SAs tht had 0 readins were done in April/May 2010 2 weeks apart so would of been from the same sperm sample. we then didnt have another SA until we went to see Dr Wu in April this year! so the samples are like a year apart! 

is it possible the 0s were just reflective of one time period and not really a good indicator of how he is all the time! and Dr Wu knew this from looking at his blood tests! which is why he made us wait and get tested over 6 months before giving any treatment?

suposse i will get the answers soon! back to St Marys we go i think Dr Wu will of done everything he can now


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## silverbell

Just an update to say ...

Today I have:

1. Got an appointment sorted privately with Mr Ramsay a week on Saturday :thumbup:

2. Had counselling as I've not been coping well (and found it incredibly beneficial) :thumbup:

3. Seen the NHS Urologist with DH who said a biopsy (not a retrieval, but just a biopsy to see what's going on) was the next step and agreed seeing a Specialist was a good idea. He fully supported our decision to see Mr Ramsay and is sending him a letter and all our results off to him. 

He did say that the biopsy (not a retrieval) could be done within a couple of months as a day case, but we feel we want any procedures done by Mr Ramsay as he specialises in this and we would feel safer with him. Urologist was fine with this and said it was sensible to keep everything together instead of bits and bobs done with various different people at various hospitals etc.

Hoping to update further a week on Saturday after we've seen Mr Ramsay.


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## Bookworm

Hi KB, Twilliams & wibble wobble - and everyone else!

Been ages since I've been on; coping alright and didn't want to tempt another crash! But I do feel pretty ok at the moment (which I'm hoping isn't just denial....)

Anyway - I thought the comments about looking at some of the positives of azo. were interesting; even before we had a diagnosis of a problem we'd been TTC for so long that I had already had that 'I'll never take my children for granted' feeling. But since our diagnosis I've binned the OPKs and stopped looking at CM and over analysing every twinge of my body. On nights out I don't worry should I drink or not. 

Obviously we now have one BIG scary stress factor, but it's a stress with a name and a process to follow and a possible solution where as with TTC it's everything you eat/drink/excerise/when you DTD... having the diagnosis is strangely liberating and terrifying at the same time... 
Of course I'm still taking my vitamins and alcohol and coffee intake is limited - and generally I eat pretty well and I walk the dog everyday and do yoga a couple of days a week, but most of that I would be doing anyway so it's not a concerted effort.

Quickly on where we are right now:
We're on the dual NHS/private track so there's some overlapping (and just plain lapping as we're so much further ahead with private!!)
Got (NHS) hormone results back (normal)
Been to another consultation (private) armed with hormone results - they've taken more blood from DH to do screening (HIV etc) which they do before doing TESE (eek!)
Got referral letter from (NHS) re: chromosome testing (that's separate from fs, at a different hospital and down to me pestering GP) - thanks SilverBell for the advice there!!
Got call for 2nd (NHS) SA in August(!!!!!) - no results of 1st SA, just call for 2nd.

So moving forward:
Calling NHS to see if they'll accept the SA results from private clinic and so cancel 2nd NHS SA and move to next step with them (not likely though - wording of letter is extremely officious and says if we don't go we get removed from their care and back to GP)
Calling NHS to set up appointment for genetic stuff and FX we can move that forward really quickly!
Waiting for bloods back from private clinic (expected to be available Thursday) and once they're in we can make an app for TESE/biopsy (expected to happen in next 2 weeks)

So basically we'll know by the end of July if there is anything in there! If there is, I'm hoping that the NHS genetic testing will move along quite quickly as that could save us quite a bit. If it doesn't we'll just get that done private too and move on to ICSI (FX FX FX FX). I think the private clinic would do ICSI and leave the further testing as recommended but to our discretion; but with the possibility of CF gene causing the problem I think we'd be irresponsible not to do it.

I'm still amazed that (if NHS say they won't accept the SA results we already have) we could already have a full private ICSI cycle over us before we even get our NHS azo. diagnosis! With an NHS SA in Aug and a potential 5mth wait for a review app (where you get the results) we'll be more than 1year in the system before they tell us we can't have children naturally.... I dread to think what the waiting list for actual treatment is like!!! 

But then my next thought is "don't get ahead of yourself! Treatment might not be on the cards" (did I already say FX?!?!?!?!)


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## WANBMUM

FX FX FX FX FX FX FX is right. It is shocking that the whole process just to get diagnosed takes so long. 

What is TESE? I guess i shall go google anyway. 

A week on friday we have my OH u/s, FINALLLY - it has been the longest 8 weeks and its still ages away. :(

Ive been feeling quite crappy the last few days, i have had alot of constant reminders we dont have kids and alot of constant reminders other people can have kids willy nilly. :( Im sure it will pass..................or will it ever :(


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## silverbell

Hey Bookworm

How are you managing to do NHS and private? I didn't know you could do that? So does this mean he'll have TESE privately and you have IVF on NHS? If so, do you know if they'll use privately retrieved sperm for NHS IVF?

I'm so glad you managed to get a referral re the chromosome testing :thumbup: Great news and glad it worked.

You're right about the waiting for the NHS being so long and never-ending. It's absolutely depressing. At least those with non-severe infertility can keep trying in the meantime, but us ladies know there's no use doing that and so you're just stuck in limbo. It's horrible.

Wow, the biopsy is just around the corner for you guys now. I'm keeping everything crossed.


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Ive been feeling quite crappy the last few days, i have had alot of constant reminders we dont have kids and alot of constant reminders other people can have kids willy nilly. :( Im sure it will pass..................or will it ever :(

I've been feeling the same, Wanbmum. I just went for counselling today, in fact, as it all has gotten too much especially with some other bad news I've had on top of that (my Nan is dying).

I wonder if it'll ever pass for me too. I just have to believe that one day we will have our little family somehow and that is what is keeping me going.


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## Bookworm

Well the different nurses & drs/consultants seem to use slightly different terminology but the process they are referring to is the same thing: DH will go in and be put under a general anaesthetic, then they'll do the least invasive procedure which involves 'piercing' the outer layer og the testis (the epydidimus) and extract sperm - that's the TESE but some say PESE? I think there's a slight difference in procedure? If that bit is unsuccessful they move straight to biopsy there & then. I'll be in the waiting room... 

With our dual approach I think it is quite common. We started with NHS before Christmas & just getting to referal & scheduling SA with fs took us to June so we just thought that was ridiculous. So without cancelling anything with NHS we approached a local private clinic & started the process with them. I asked at NHS if that would be a problem and they said no, and according to the person I spoke to even if we successfully conceive & deliver privately it won't effect our entitlement to NHS treatment further down the line..


----------



## KB38

Wow Silverbell and Bookworm, you girls are on fire!!! I think I'm going to start planning the way you both are. I think doing something is better than sitting around doing nothing. 

I am getting nervous about Friday although I feel like a bit of a dill because DH is having a TESA not a TESE. The research is a bit equivocal about which one has a better chance of finding sperm but it seems that our specialist likes to do the least invasive procedures first. I guess I'm just going to run with that. I've also asked our specialist whether he can order an estrogen test. I haven't heard back yet though. Did your OH have estrogen done Deb111? 

Call me crazy but I've also been exploring alternative therapies like acupuncture and homeopathy. I've emailed a few people and am just waiting for their replies. DH doesn't sound too keen but who knows....

Oh and I've thought of a positive to add to your list Bookworm - if I can move past this point, bigger picture = no more birth control


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## silverbell

I don't think it's crazy to investigate any alternative measures, but do just be cautious before trying anything in case it will interfere with any of the more medical stuff/procedures etc. I'm sure you know this anyway.

That's the only good thing about all of this, KB - no more birth control! Which is good, as I wasn't going to go back on the pill again after this anyway. I hadn't ever had problems on the pill, but just didn't like the idea of giving myself artificial hormones. Of course, this does mean more of the dreaded 'wet patch' ... :sick: I told DH that's one thing I am not looking forward to. I hate the wetness after! (sorry if TMI) DH is rather chuffed he probably won't have to use condoms again as well.


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## Sar187

Hi everyone. I will give you a little background information first. 

I'm sarah(24) and OH is Daron(26) we have been married 3 years and together 7 in November. We have been TTC for almost 2 years now. 

In march we had an SA done on OH and it came back showing 0 sperm. Our physician then referred us to a Urologist who we have now seen twice. At our first appointment with him he did a physical exam on OH and looked at and talked to us about our medial histories. On the bright side both our physician and the urologist so far think I am perfectly healthy! The physical exam for hubby showed that he has all the correct tubes and everything and nothing seems to be wrong there. The urologist told us he believes the azoospermia is caused by a blockage/damage to the vas deferens due to hernia surgery OH had when he was 3. He told us to get a blood test done to check OH's hormones and to schedule a follow up appointment with him in 2 weeks. 

At the 2nd appointment he told us all of OH's hormone levels were good(we were hoping they would find something due to his sex drive seeming low for the last 3.5 years). The urologist told us he still believes the problem was caused by the hernia surgery and that a repair surgery would have less than a 5% chance of working and we would be better off to go straight to IVF with SSA. He referred us to a fertility clinic Where we have an appointment scheduled for August 1st.

It has all been very frustrating for OH as he comes from a large family where he is 1 of 7 and 5 of his sibling have 21 children between them. We did tell his parents, my mom and 2 of our close friends what is going on. Though his moms only comment was "oh well, these things happen", my mom has been very supportive and keeps telling me i will end up with twins now since i've always said i didn't know if i could do twins :). 

Sorry for writing a book. Its nice to meet all of you and was very helpful reading through some of the posts.


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## mumanddad

Welcome hun my oh went through kinda the same and he has a very fertile family.

My oh had a vain blocking his tube but in now 9 weeks pg and it happened naturally so please dont give up. We had been ttc 38 long months and one wiggly man got through finally x


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## Sar187

Congrats on the BFP! We have been trying to stay positive, and he is very willing to do all the dr appointments and everything which is great. Good to hear a natural success story!


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## silverbell

Nice to meet you, Sar187, and I hope to read lots of happy news over the coming months :hugs:

Congrats, mumanddad!


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## Deb111

KB - hubby has had an oestradiol test which is one of the estrogen hormones - the tamoxifen should be blocking the estrogen receptors in order to improve ihis testosterone : estrogen ratio, which we're told is more important than the actual individual numbers. 

Sar187 - welcome :flower:
HMy hubby has virtually no sex drive either - do you know what hubby's testosterone level is?

I really hope you get some good news soon xx


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## silverbell

Just a quick update. Managed to finally get GP to order karyotype and Y-chromosome microdeletions testing today as well as oestradiol (as per Mr Ramsay's recommendation).

Took a lot of pushing though. :growlmad:

I didn't ask about the cystic fibrosis carrier test, as I thought I'd already asked enough and this one doesn't seem as recommended as the other 2. I guess I could be cheeky and add it to the blood form under the other 2 requests, as it does say 'chromosome analysis' and then a description of the specific tests required ... I guess it wouldn't hurt. They'll just ignore it if they're not happy?

Doc did warn us about the cost implications of going privately for these things, especially when procedures are involved. I thought it was nice he was concerned, but DH told me afterwards he found it a bit offensive and that it was OK for him as he had kids already. Oh dear.

We haven't decided on the IVF being private yet though. It's something we'll need to discuss with Mr R next week. I know same day sperm and egg collection gives better chances of success, but it's just a huge amount of money for us to consider and we just want to know our options and chances if we went down other routes before we do that. I wish we could have won the Euromillions last night ... !

I feel like everything is in place now ready to see Mr R next week. I can't wait.


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## Deb111

Don't worry too much about using frozen sperm if necessary - Dr Ramsay understands our wish to do a synchronous cycle and hopefully use fresh sperm, but if they find any in a SA prior to EC, they will thaw that and hopefully use that. He said that although they lose quite a few during the thaw, it's simply a process of natural selcetion and it's the weak ones that wouldn't be much good in terms of fertilisation anyway that they lose and the stronger ones survive and are great ones to be using xx


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## Sar187

Deb, I haven't gotten around to requesting a copy of the actual results from the hormone tests, I just know the Urologist said they were in normal ranges, not what the actual numbers were. I really think the sex drive is mostly due to Stress and not enough sleep for him. It has improved a lot over the last year and a half since he switched shifts at work.


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## WANBMUM

Hi gals & welcome sar187 :) so sad seeing new people going throughthis but it is such a great group here & u will get great advise and suppor. As we are at the beginning of this azoo journey I haven't a clue what most of these tests are for yet so if your asking and I'm not responding, it's bcos I haven't a notion :)

I think I am going to speak to my mother this weekend!!! Any tips on how to bring it up/start the convo. I know once I start talking I will be fine but I'm really struggling on how to bring it up initially :( it's not the most common convo to have with your mother is it :)


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## Bookworm

Hi Sar187, sorry you find yourself here... I'm relatively new too and it is a great thread for info & support.

SB - way to go on the testing!! So good when GP is able to get this stuff done for you!! 

Actually I'm wondering if I can mine a bit of info from some of you who are a bit further along: we're trying to schedule DH's initial surgery & we're wondering what the usual recovery time is?

We know the surgery will take place in the morning, will take about 20min plus additional recovery time at the clinic before I can take him home. We're assuming that we should put that whole day aside for him but wondering if we should extend that to a couple of days....?

DH has a pretty demanding job & has a particularly busy time approaching when time off isn't an option, so we don't want him hobbling around in agony!!


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## silverbell

Wanbmum - I personally just told my Mom I had something I needed to tell her and that it wasn't happy news, but I wanted to share. Started by saying that we had been trying for a baby for quite some time and nothing had happened, so we went to our GP for some tests to see if anything unusual was going on. At this point my Mom said 'Oh God, what's wrong with you?' :haha: Then I said that DH had had a SA and it showed absolutely no sperm and this had been confirmed on a repeat test. 

There's no real easy way to say it. But I do feel better having my parents know about it and it's nice to know they're there if I ever needed to chat to them about it.

Bookworm - I could be very wrong, but I'm sure I read the average recommended time off after a biopsy is 1 week??


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## KB38

Thanks Deb111. I've asked the specialist to order an estrogen test today and he said he can do it with the bloods we've already given so should get the results soon. 

We were told that DH needs to have at least 2 days off work, possibly more depending on how he is going Bookworm. We've scheduled the procedure for a Friday so hopefully he'll be right to go back to Monday. I'll let you know Monday how realistic that is...

Hi everyone else. I've found so much support here. I'm sure you will too.


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## silverbell

Hey KB. Just in case I'm not about tomorrow, just wanted to say I'll be thinking of you and your hubby tomorrow and thinking very happy, positive thoughts :dust: 

Will you find out straight away what they found?


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## Bookworm

Thanks KB! that helps! The clinic will be calling us later to schedule the app and for us it'll have to be either next week or the first week of Aug then (as there is no way DH will be able to commit to 2/3 days rest the week after next, and the weekend is actually his busiest time that week so he'll be doing a 7-day week...) Bit frustrating as I'm sure next week will not be an option for the clinic at this late stage - but there you go.

It's a small delay and it might actually be in our favour if we can get our genetics appointment etc organised via NHS in the meantime. 

And as SilverBell says we'll be keeping you in our thoughts tomorrow! Everything crossed for you guys - hope you both manage to get a good nights rest too... I know how my DH is dreading it already and it's not even scheduled :dohh: so hope you can help your OH relax tonight!!


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## Sar187

WanbMum, I have a very open relationship with my mother so the conversation was fairly easy to start. Does your mother know you have been TTC? If she does maybe bring it up that way, she may already be wondering if there is something going on. Otherwise maybe just start with talking about kids/babies and work it into the conversation. Good Luck! :)


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## twilliamssbt

Finally got the numbers and progressive motility is absolutely diablolical


Total count 43.7 x 10^6

Motility A (Progressively Motile) 2.7%
Motility B (Non Linear motilie ) 16%
Motility C (Non Prgressive but move tails) 14.3%
Motility D (Immotile and fail to move) 67%

4.3% Normal Morphology

Ok, 2.7% of 43.7 million is a lot, but when the GP says little to no chance of natural conception, you really don't want to hear that.

Got appointment with fiances Endocrinologist at beginning of August, I so wanted to go back and tell him we did it naturally.

Not sure whether they will still go for 3x HCG injections weekly or IUI or ICSI. Next few weeks till appointment is going to drive us crazy I think :nope:


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## Deb111

With regards to recovery time, we were told hubby would be ok to go back to work on the Monday, having had the procedure on the Thursday before, but being in a manual job, he decided to book the whole of the following week off. Now I will be totally honest and say that I saw the other 3 guys get up within an hour of surgery and walk out like nothing had happened. However, my hubby was in quite a lot of pain, had to take extra pain killers afterwards before leaving the hospital and had to be helped out walking like john wayne!!

He wasn't even back at work the following week and was pretty much a whole week in bed - reasonably pain free after the first 36 hours - until he moved much.

A lot of his pain / discomfort seemed to be around the top of his pubic area and they said there is quite a bit of pulling and tugging involved and so it can be painful there, but I think a lot of the problem is that he is quite overweight and they only have 'one size' supportive jockstraps!! and he found this VERY VERY uncomfortable after the pulling etc in that area so actually took it off once he was lying down and this eased it alot. 

It can't have been all that bad though because he's prepared to go through it all (and more) again, but just wanted to warn you that recovery time really can seem to vary quite a lot


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## Deb111

Twilliam - I guess 2.7% of 43.7 million sounds like a hell of a lot to those of us who have none, but it's hard when the doctor says that to you; giving you some good news and then taking it away with a negative. However, at least there are plenty for IVF / ICSI and hey, no harm in trying! :winkwink: It only takes one as we've seen with MumamdDad :happydance:
xx


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## Deb111

KB - Will be thinking of you and hubby tomorrow and praying that it's good news for you both. Big hugs xx :hugs:


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## Deb111

Wanbmum - I have to say I have a very open relationship with my parents - especially my Mum, so she knew every time we had an appt at the FS and when we got the news I text her and told her what they'd said but that we needed some time to deal with it and I'd talk to her the following day.

If she doesn't know much of what you're going through, I would make sure you tell her that it's nothing 'serious' but that it is a very difficult and sad time for you before you sit her down and talk to her xx


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## twilliamssbt

Deb111 said:


> Twilliam - I guess 2.7% of 43.7 million sounds like a hell of a lot to those of us who have none, but it's hard when the doctor says that to you; giving you some good news and then taking it away with a negative. However, at least there are plenty for IVF / ICSI and hey, no harm in trying! :winkwink: It only takes one as we've seen with MumamdDad :happydance:
> xx

Yep, I know, I am not sure which was worse, the azoospermia result or some there but no good.

If we have to go IVF or ISCI route, time is ticking too quickly, am 33 next month and family history of early menopause at 38, NHS waiting list even with explained fertility may well be too long and we really can't afford the private route.

All we can do is see what Endo says about whether HCG will help, as that should only take a few months to conceive naturally.

Plus the fact we know he probably has some kind of genetic mutation on AIP gene, means our children could be pituitary giants, so that probably does not help his sperm at all.

I want to feed them a can of redbull and tell em to get on with it :growlmad:


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## mumanddad

The clinics are never speedy are they - we are still waiting for matts chromozone results from 3 months or so ago like we are going to listen to them tho.

I think they prefer to give you bad news!


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## twilliamssbt

mumanddad said:


> The clinics are never speedy are they - we are still waiting for matts chromozone results from 3 months or so ago like we are going to listen to them tho.
> 
> I think they prefer to give you bad news!

The DNA result is being done by FIPA under care of Professor Korbonitz at St Barts and London Medical School, Acromegaly is rare enough but FIPA families are even rarer, so there is research funding for the project. If positive, all of his family will be tested too, it will mean that all his cousins and his sister could potentially develop pituitary gland tumours and his cousins children could potentially be pituitary giants.

All the family will have blood tests and MRI scans every 12 months if they are positive as early detection can be curative.

Unfortunately for my other half and his cousin, that is not the case.


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## WANBMUM

Thanks so much for your help girls :)
You have given me some really good advise on how to approach it. I definitely need to say its nothing serious initially as I dont want to give her a heart attack lol. 
I have a feeling she knows something is up, even though she doesnt know we have been TTC, I am sure she has an idea, as we are married a couple of years now and she knows we have always wanted kids, so i am sure she is wondering. 
Hope the rest of you are as good as you can be. good luck to those going for results tomorrow. :)


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## KB38

Possibily the worst day ever of my life. I know that sounds dramatic but it is how it feels. No sperm or spermatozoa found with TESA and the scientist in the procedure told the specialist that the cells looked DH has sertoli cell only syndrome. We've been told the only option is to go for donor sperm. Then no less than 5 seconds after I got the phone call from our specialist whilst I was in the waiting room, my BF sent me a text saying that she was pregnant for the second time (and now I'm sounding nasty but she didn't even want a baby until she was at least 7 months pregnant with the first). Then I got a call from the recovery nurse to come and see DH and when I got there was told that they "thought the news would be better coming from me" so I had to tell DH what I'd been told. Then we got told we had to wait two weeks for another appointment with the specialist.

I've cried all day but am now wondering whether that advice is a bit premature as I've just read that even in sertoli cell only syndrome, sperm/spermatozoa has been found in mTESE. I feel like I'm always asking for advice but do any of you have any suggestions about what I should do? I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down and the hits just keep on coming. I'm not prepared to give up but I don't have the emotional strength to be supporting DH and researching this myself today. My GP is arranging some counselling for us so I'm sure that'll help and, at the end of the day, I do know it'll all work out in the end.


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## WANBMUM

KB38 I am so so sorry you are going through this and can truly understand it is your worst day! I'm afraid I can't help in relation to research but I'm sure someone here will be able to. I can't imagine how you must be feeling.
Even though throughout this journey it can never make it easier hearing that news. :( 
Try to stay strong together, break down together but hold onto each other, you have never needed each other as much as you do now. 
Sending you love and hugs x


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## WANBMUM

Ps what a cruel blow getting that txt from your friend. I'm presuming she doesn't know your going through this. This happens to me all the time, always hearing bfp news at the worst times!!!!


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## silverbell

KB, I'm so very sorry. I had hoped to hear some wonderful news today.

From what we have read mTESE is better and more advanced than normal TESE and this is why DH is so keen to go privately and get the mTESE done. Because he wants to be 1 million per cent sure that there is nothing there, rather than him having the TESE and then doubting the result and possibly having to go through it all again.

DH and I have discussed and are prepared to use donor sperm, but we still know that if we find he has nothing there we will be absolutely horrified. I don't think you can ever prepare yourself for that, just the same as you can never prepare yourself for the azoo diagnosis.

I'm sure some ladies who have been at this point before will be along shortly to offer help.

In the meantime, stay strong and look after yourself and your DH. Thinking of you :hugs:


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## Sar187

KB38, so sorry to hear about your results, Wish i could give you some advice but I really don't know all that much yet at this point. I can definitely sympathize with the friend and her bfp though, It can be very frustrating to see all the people who get pregnant and aren't even trying or don't even want a child. Hopefully the counseling can help you and your DH deal with some of the emotions that go along with this. Good Luck!

I actually got a little bit of good news yesterday. I know a lot of you are from the UK so not sure how much you know about US healthcare but the fertility clinic we are scheduled to go to is out-of-network for our insurance company. They have a much better success rate with Male factor cases than the in-network one and got much better reviews so we chose to stick with the out-of-network one the urologist referred us to and deal with them only covering 65% of expenses as compared to 85% for in-network(still better than nothing!). We also have a $10,000 lifetime max for infertility services. When talking to the insurance company yesterday to make sure we didn't need to fill out any paperwork to go out-of-network DH was answering some questions for the woman and was told that because of his situation if we could prove that his problem was caused by the hernia surgery he had when he was 3 they will waive the $10,000 maximum which would enable us to do more than 1 IVF cycle if needed! 

This does raise a question though, how do we prove that the surgery caused the problem? Our initial thought is to get proof from DH's physician that he had the surgery as a child, and then maybe have the urologist actually perform an ultrasound to show there is a blockage. Any other suggestions?


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## silverbell

Sar187 said:


> When talking to the insurance company yesterday to make sure we didn't need to fill out any paperwork to go out-of-network DH was answering some questions for the woman and was told that because of his situation if we could prove that his problem was caused by the hernia surgery he had when he was 3 they will waive the $10,000 maximum which would enable us to do more than 1 IVF cycle if needed!
> 
> This does raise a question though, how do we prove that the surgery caused the problem? Our initial thought is to get proof from DH's physician that he had the surgery as a child, and then maybe have the urologist actually perform an ultrasound to show there is a blockage. Any other suggestions?

That's great news, Sar! Very pleased for you.

I don't know about your questions, but I'd say that seems a good place to start. I think I'd be tempted to ring the lady again and ask how you're supposed to get proof - what they suggest. They must have come across that before and should be able to tell you what to do? Otherwise I've no idea, sorry.


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## WANBMUM

Hi girls. 
Sar, I think silverbells idea to ring them back and ask what they would expect as proof is a great idea. Maybe they want a consultant or gp's opinion to confirm it or a report, do you think you will get that as the docs might be apprehensive to do so. Maybe his records say that already? 
I hope you get what you need as that would be brilliant if you could.


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## Sar187

Well the Urologist told us he is 90% sure that is what has caused the problem, but that is based only on medical history and a physical exam. From what DH said the woman he talked to was thinking more proof than that, all she could give him though was to get more tests run. So I think we will start with proof of the surgery, a copy of the SA results and maybe talk to the urologist to see what he thinks.

I am letting DH do most of the talking to the insurance company though as the last time I talked to them they hung up on me because i got frustrated with them for asking the same question 5 times :).


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## Bookworm

KB38 said:


> Possibily the worst day ever of my life. I know that sounds dramatic but it is how it feels. No sperm or spermatozoa found with TESA and the scientist in the procedure told the specialist that the cells looked DH has sertoli cell only syndrome.
> 
> I've cried all day but am now wondering whether that advice is a bit premature as I've just read that even in sertoli cell only syndrome, sperm/spermatozoa has been found in mTESE. I feel like I'm always asking for advice but do any of you have any suggestions about what I should do? I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down and the hits just keep on coming. I'm not prepared to give up but I don't have the emotional strength to be supporting DH and researching this myself today. My GP is arranging some counselling for us so I'm sure that'll help and, at the end of the day, I do know it'll all work out in the end.

Hi KB :hugs: I'm really sorry... I know that this is a possibility, but there's just no preparation. I wish I knew more about the alternative testing, but I'm afraid I'm still learning - hope you get the answers though.


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## Bookworm

Thanks Debs for sharing you experience - sounds like quite an ordeal for your OH! I hope that's not how it goes for us as DH & I have our own business and time off can be very difficult.. Sometimes it would be lovely to be back in employment where you can be sick and it's someone else's problem!


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## KB38

Hi Bookworm, one of the nurses suggested to DH that rather than wearing a supportive strap, he'd be better off in regular jocks then an icepack and another pair of jocks for extra support. He's been relatively comfortable (at least not whinging as much as I expected he would be) .


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## Deb111

KB38 said:


> Possibily the worst day ever of my life. I know that sounds dramatic but it is how it feels. No sperm or spermatozoa found with TESA and the scientist in the procedure told the specialist that the cells looked DH has sertoli cell only syndrome. We've been told the only option is to go for donor sperm. Then no less than 5 seconds after I got the phone call from our specialist whilst I was in the waiting room, my BF sent me a text saying that she was pregnant for the second time (and now I'm sounding nasty but she didn't even want a baby until she was at least 7 months pregnant with the first). Then I got a call from the recovery nurse to come and see DH and when I got there was told that they "thought the news would be better coming from me" so I had to tell DH what I'd been told. Then we got told we had to wait two weeks for another appointment with the specialist.
> 
> I've cried all day but am now wondering whether that advice is a bit premature as I've just read that even in sertoli cell only syndrome, sperm/spermatozoa has been found in mTESE. I feel like I'm always asking for advice but do any of you have any suggestions about what I should do? I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down and the hits just keep on coming. I'm not prepared to give up but I don't have the emotional strength to be supporting DH and researching this myself today. My GP is arranging some counselling for us so I'm sure that'll help and, at the end of the day, I do know it'll all work out in the end.

Oh KB, I'm so sorry but please don't feel bad about asking for advice!! This is what the thread is here for - especially as it affects relatively few people. It is SO important to be able to talk to people who know exactly what you are going through.

My husband's op biopsy results said 'areas of sertoli cell only syndrome'. I don't want to get your hopes up unrealistically, but we were told that because it's a random biopsy, they can easily miss pockets of sperm wthat may be in some areas and may have just hit the pockets without them

Where in the UK are you? 

Thinking of you both xx :hugs:


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## Deb111

Bookworm said:


> Thanks Debs for sharing you experience - sounds like quite an ordeal for your OH! I hope that's not how it goes for us as DH & I have our own business and time off can be very difficult.. Sometimes it would be lovely to be back in employment where you can be sick and it's someone else's problem!

He coped Bookworm - it wasn't too bad after the first 24 hours and nothing ever stops him sleeping which was good. I just wanted to point out that being back to 'normal physical fitness' can take longer than they tell you - in SOME cases xx


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## Deb111

KB38 said:


> Hi Bookworm, one of the nurses suggested to DH that rather than wearing a supportive strap, he'd be better off in regular jocks then an icepack and another pair of jocks for extra support. He's been relatively comfortable (at least not whinging as much as I expected he would be) .

Hubby went into some regular jocks too as soon as he got home and it helped a lot :thumbup:


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## hippiehappy

KB38 said:


> Possibily the worst day ever of my life. I know that sounds dramatic but it is how it feels. No sperm or spermatozoa found with TESA and the scientist in the procedure told the specialist that the cells looked DH has sertoli cell only syndrome. We've been told the only option is to go for donor sperm. Then no less than 5 seconds after I got the phone call from our specialist whilst I was in the waiting room, my BF sent me a text saying that she was pregnant for the second time (and now I'm sounding nasty but she didn't even want a baby until she was at least 7 months pregnant with the first). Then I got a call from the recovery nurse to come and see DH and when I got there was told that they "thought the news would be better coming from me" so I had to tell DH what I'd been told. Then we got told we had to wait two weeks for another appointment with the specialist.
> 
> I've cried all day but am now wondering whether that advice is a bit premature as I've just read that even in sertoli cell only syndrome, sperm/spermatozoa has been found in mTESE. I feel like I'm always asking for advice but do any of you have any suggestions about what I should do? I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down and the hits just keep on coming. I'm not prepared to give up but I don't have the emotional strength to be supporting DH and researching this myself today. My GP is arranging some counselling for us so I'm sure that'll help and, at the end of the day, I do know it'll all work out in the end.


Hi KB38 honey, so sad to hear about your news. :cry: Getting that text message must have just finished you off as well, you have all my sympathy. We have been TTC for about 3/4 years and are dealing with azoo too. My sister is also expecting her 2nd, she keeps rubbing my face into it and I'm starting to really hate her. It's even worse if your friend doesn't even appreciate what she has, but then, her babies will never be as loved as yours will be, when they eventually come. And have faith, it WILL happen :hugs:.
Sadly I can't give you any advice but to keep trying specialists and to get a second, third and even fourth opinion if necessary.
Counselling is also a great idea, I have been seeing a counsellor for almost a year now and though sometimes the sessions are draining, it has brought me and hubby closer than ever.
Keep your chin up, lots of love :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Hi Guys :) WHERE IS EVERYBODY? :)
Hope you all are good. 
I TOLD MY MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arrghhhhhh!!! I must say it was tough as I thought and thought about the actual convo but when it came to it I just cried and couldnt get the words out - I am such a tit! But she was so good and helped me along. What I was shocked at was, she was so positive, to stay positive until you have the answers for sure, which I know we are always going to think of what may be ahead, but normally in any situation I am always the positive, glass half full sorta girl and I must say, on this 'journey' I have really lost sight of that because after each test it has been more bad news but I know for my OH's sake he really needs someone positive to help him through this. I know i wont always be able to do that when I am low etc. But you know what I mean. 
I did say to her too, that we are prepared to do what we have to do to have a child biologically and that there are lots of alterntives, so if it is donor sperm, it might be less of a shock. We;ll see, as she said, we will wait and see what happens.
U/S is this friday - arrgghhhhhhh - my poor OH for some reason he thought it was thurs + when I said it was friday, the relief on his face that he had one more day was so funny. 
Hope you are all doing ok ;)


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## Bookworm

Hi Wanbemum - well done for getting through it!! So glad your mum was so positive!

I've told my sister but just don't have it in me to tell my mum - her whole life was/is her children and she is just dying for me to have children 'so that I can be happy' (which is her view on life for the average woman). I feel a lot of pressure from her. We're very close and this is the first time I've kept something like this from her, but I am just about managing my own disappointment right now, I don't think I could handle hers as well. 

She's been through a really tough time over the last number of years and I just don't want to put anything else in her way unless it's absolutely necessary...


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## Sar187

So glad it went well wanbmum. I think its a huge challenge to stay positive but keeping that little bit of positivity is a great help for our OH's and ourselves. 

I don't have any other news yet, still just antsy for our appointment on the 1st. :)


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## silverbell

Glad the telling went well, Wanb. :hugs:

Can't wait to see Mr Ramsay this Saturday!

Finally we'll have more of an idea as to where we go from here. Even if it's negative at least we'll know more than we know now. Can't wait.

Bring on Saturday!


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## WANBMUM

Bookworm - I can understand why your not comfy talking to your mum, it does sound like she has enough on her own plate and she would probably not be the best person to tell for you. maybe in time :)

Sar187 - yes it is hard to have news inbetween tests, its just a waiting game. Coming from someone who has had to wait 7 weeks for our appointment this friday, it really has gone sooooo quiick. so i hope your time goes quickly. 

Silverbell - do you know what Dr Ramsey is going to do this saturday or is it a consultation and learn where to go from here? I hope it goes well for you ;) 

I am good, counting down the days til friday. Its a scarey feeling - the unknown. :(


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Silverbell - do you know what Dr Ramsey is going to do this saturday or is it a consultation and learn where to go from here? I hope it goes well for you ;)

It's our first consultation with him or with anybody who knows anything about azoo, so we're very excited about it. We just want to find out what he thinks we should do/try next and then go from there. We've been stuck in limbo for the past 1.5 months since we found out and just want to know where we're at. No idea what he'll suggest (medication or straight to biopsy or something else entirely), but just looking forward to speaking to somebody who knows all about this.


----------



## Deb111

As you will see from my first ticker, our appt at The Lister has been postponed from 9th Aug to 17th Aug :growlmad:

Bookworm and Wanbmum - glad you've been able to confide in someone - it definitely helps.

Thinking of you all xx


----------



## WANBMUM

Yes I can understand why you are so excited to finally speak to someone who is familiar with this whole process. Hope it goes really well :)

Thanks Deb - Aw I would be so annoyed at appointment times being changed, it is tough enough waiting never mind for it to be postponed. 

This is what I am dreading the most about our app on friday, i know they will just reschedule more tests and more waiting will be needed :( 
PMA PMA PMA :)


----------



## Y B AVG

Hi,
This is my first post. I have no one to talk to (DH is out of town on a business trip) and need some support. I've been happily married for 4 years and have been pregnant 3 times. BFP #1 TTC 1 cycle -m/c, BFP #2 TTC 6 cycles - DD, BFP #3 TTC 2 cycles-ectopic.
We started with an RE a few months ago and the nurse called today and said there were zero sperm in DH's SA. I'm wondering if there was a mistake or if there was an error in the collection.
DH went to a urologist for another issue last year and had an exam and sonogram and they never mentioned any blockage or problems.
I'm so confussed and have a call into the doctor, but would love to hear from those who have been dealing with azoo. Is it more likely that there was something wrong with the sample or that he really has zero sperm? Thanks for your help!


----------



## KB38

Hi Y B Avg, I'm no expert but I'd say if you've been pregnant 3 times recently there is a good chance the SA is wrong. I'm sure they'll order a retest for you (I think they always do) so you'll know one way or the other really soon. In the meantime, try not to stress. Easier said than done I know but I'm sure you'll be fine :flower:


----------



## KB38

Hi everyone, well done Wanabemum for telling your mum! Good luck for your upcoming appointment.

I have my fingers crossed for you for Saturday, Silverbell. I hope you find 
some direction if not some answers.

I am so very sorry to hear about your appointment Deb111. The waiting is bad enough. What will they be doing when you finally get there?

I don't have much to report today. I've been trying to go about normal life but everything seems different now. 

Our doctor's receptionist called today to confirm our appointment for Monday to get all of our results. I already know what they're going to say so I'm really just keen to get it over and done with and move on to the next stage, whatever that might be.


----------



## KB38

PS Deb111, I don't live in the UK. I'm from Australia  Sorry I missed your earlier question.


----------



## MissAma

Y B AVG said:


> Hi,
> This is my first post. I have no one to talk to (DH is out of town on a business trip) and need some support. I've been happily married for 4 years and have been pregnant 3 times. BFP #1 TTC 1 cycle -m/c, BFP #2 TTC 6 cycles - DD, BFP #3 TTC 2 cycles-ectopic.
> We started with an RE a few months ago and the nurse called today and said there were zero sperm in DH's SA. I'm wondering if there was a mistake or if there was an error in the collection.

Hi there, a mistake in the SA is very possible and we are keeping our fingers crossed that it isn't Azoo but the good news with your history is that if it is Azoo it would be obstructive and that can be cause by many things all of which are treatable by medicine or surgery and hence you'll get your swimmers back eventually :happydance:



KB38 said:


> PS Deb111, I don't live in the UK. I'm from Australia  Sorry I missed your earlier question.

Where abouts in Australia? We're hoping to move to WA next year.

Deb111 - read on your diary that you got pushed back. I vividly remember how horrid even a day is when you're waiting for treatment. :hugs:

Speaking of days and treatment :) I am back on BnB -to the extent my hectic life allows- as we've decided we're going back to cut our family jewels and extract whatever swimmers we still have to try and make Dara a brother or sister next year so it well and truly feels like the LLLLLLLTTTC roller coaster over again so I was hoping to meet some people although I am sure I will not have treatment till mid next year or so hence all of you will be very pregnant or mummies at that time!


----------



## Y B AVG

Thanks KB38 and MissAma for taking the time to reply! When the nurse called and said the doctor wanted a follow up, I thought she meant a follow up to the SA, but she said no, the doctor wants you to come in to see him for a follow up. We have to wait 3 weeks to see him so, it helps tremendously to know that IF there is any issue it is something that has a fix.

Prayers and FX for happy and healthy babies for everyone!:hugs:


----------



## Sar187

Y B AVG, I agree with the others who replied in that it could be a bad SA or is something that has a fix. I have a friend who When trying for their 3rd child had an SA with 0 sperm and it ended up being due to medication he was taking. As soon as he stopped the medication his sperm count was back to normal. Good Luck!


----------



## Deb111

KB38 said:


> I am so very sorry to hear about your appointment Deb111. The waiting is bad enough. What will they be doing when you finally get there?

We've been told to allow a couple of hours. Transvaginal scan for me, SA for hubby, lots of forms to fill in and then appt with consultant to discuss our blood test results and see where we go next - from what I gather we should get results of hubby's SA and my scan whilst we're there
xx


----------



## Deb111

Welcome YB - as other have said, it could be down to medications if he's taking any or a blockage or maybe a faulty SA. I think the fact that you've been pregnant before is a very positive sign. really hoping you get good news soon xx


----------



## Y B AVG

Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm really hoping and praying that there was a problem with the collection. He collected at home and it was almost two hours before he dropped it off, but the instructions said no more than two hours. If not then I hope there is a quick and easy fix. I'm over 35 and DH is older and I don't know if he would be open to surgery since we already have a child. So much to think about over the next three weeks. No one knows we are TTC so, it's good to know you all are out there to listen as we deal with the next chapter in our journey.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

I hope you don't mind me dropping by?

We've been ttc since Jan '11 (came off BCP Nov '10) and as it's been over 6 months and I'm 36 we decided we should see the GP.

We got the test results yesterday and husband has Azoospermia. We're still a little shell-shocked to be honest.

The GP is going to send us to a see a specialist - not sure how long the wait is. He's also suggested adoption and sperm donors as an option, but I can't even think about that right now.

I need to catch-up on all your posts, but I just wanted to drop by :flower:

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## silverbell

tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello everyone :hi:
> 
> I hope you don't mind me dropping by?
> 
> We've been ttc since Jan '11 (came off BCP Nov '10) and as it's been over 6 months and I'm 36 we decided we should see the GP.
> 
> We got the test results yesterday and husband has Azoospermia. We're still a little shell-shocked to be honest.
> 
> The GP is going to send us to a see a specialist - not sure how long the wait is. He's also suggested adoption and sperm donors as an option, but I can't even think about that right now.
> 
> I need to catch-up on all your posts, but I just wanted to drop by :flower:
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> C xx

I'm really sorry to see another lady joining this thread, but at the same time I'm glad you've found us. You seem to be handling it very well at the moment and I hope you continue to do so.

Yes, don't worry about adoption or sperm donors yet. There are other things to think about. We are seeing a private specialist this Saturday, after we decided to just see somebody who specialised in this sort of thing.

I really feel for you right now. Any questions or comments, feel free to post away on here. It's great to have the support from those who are going through the same thing.


----------



## MissAma

It is SO unpleasant that the first thing they suggest is Donor or Adoption. Nothing wrong with either but why make people believe there are no alternatives when there are SO many Azospermia babies out there?

If you want a bit of hope tigerlilly1975, a few years ago we were right where you are today, an urologist shook his head and said "well you won't have your own children but donor is always a possibility" and today we spent the day worrying about the impossible-child's chicken pox and researching which IVF clinic we'll make her a brother at!


----------



## silverbell

MissAma said:


> It is SO unpleasant that the first thing they suggest is Donor or Adoption. Nothing wrong with either but why make people believe there are no alternatives when there are SO many Azospermia babies out there?
> 
> If you want a bit of hope tigerlilly1975, a few years ago we were right where you are today, an urologist shook his head and said "well you won't have your own children but donor is always a possibility" and today we spent the day worrying about the impossible-child's chicken pox and researching which IVF clinic we'll make her a brother at!

What an inspiring and wonderful post. :hugs: 

Our GP didn't even realise that a biopsy to the testicles existed, let alone that those with azoospermia could father children with sperm retrieved. You should have seen his face when he found out. I felt it was my place to educate him at our last visit :haha:

Our doc wrote to the Urologist that he doubted my DH would ever father his own children and the Urologist didn't exactly dismiss it. It makes me mad and just glad we're seeing a real specialist in a couple of days, as at least we'll know 100% that there's no chance or some chance instead of professionals who aren't actually clued up at all on this subject making flippant and unsubstantiated comments. :growlmad:

Thanks for your positive post and for reminding those of us who haven't been through an SSR/TESE that there is still a bit of hope out there, despite what so many in the medical profession seem to suggest.


----------



## MissAma

You're very welcome. I well remember the heart ache and complete brain freeze. After crying for 3 days straight I told myself "hold on a minute, this can not be, there HAS to be a way, Google, here I come!" and 2 days of research later I was on all infertility forums possible and had an appointment booked with an IVF clinic in Spain and a bank manager :rofl:

Now let me get this straight, I do not advise creating huge debt to go have your first ICSI with SSR abroad because at the time it sounded like a much better idea than waiting one more hour:D but then again I know not many people are that mad ;) 

On a more serious note, this journey is horrid, we get thrown in Infertile mode after joyous rose-petal-BD-for-baby-TTC mode and it's a real psychological shock followed by expense, wait, information overload and more headache and heartache than imaginable (each step of IVF is darn hard, the SSR nerves of not getting any sperm, the stimulation nerves of not having any eggs, the Petri dish nerves of poor fertilization reports, the wait in between, EC, scans, OTDs and all that, hell the acronyms alone and they're daunting!) but we don't need this difficult journey to start with misinformation from the medical profession!


----------



## Mrs Mazzeo

Hello,
Just come across your post sorry its so long since u wrote it.

Well my hubby has Azoospermia all his sperm samples said no sperms found, Burton Centre For Repoductive Medicine tested his hormone levels and all seemed normal, so they suggested SSR well they found 3 ampules of sperm, was told it was healthy and could be frozen. So we started ICSI AND IVF. First cycle they over stimmed me so was abandoned 2nd cycle ive just finished it was all going great then they decided to up my Menopur dosage and when i went back for a scan one folly had gone mental and taken all the drugs :( so was rushed to egg collection for one folly. We pinned all out hopes on that one as it was 23mm well had egg collection 13/07/11 they said they collected the one folly and it had a mature egg but later on in the afternoon when they checked it, it was empty. So our cycle was over!! As we was NHS funded we was told that was the end of our funding as we have had SSR funded and 2 lots of ovulation induction. even tho i was supposed to be funded for one full cycle of IVF and i never actually received that due to Burtons mistakes. 

Were so gutted and im launching an appeal to our PCT as it wasnt down to any fault of ours why i over stimmed they knew my AMH levels were 77.7 so had high risk of over stimming but they still carried on there answer was tp use this as a trial run and have offered us a fresh cycle but done differently but that will cost us £4000 which we dont have so our only option is to appeal. I cannot believe they actually got it wrong twice but yet were being penalised doesnt seem right or fair!!1

Anyway i hope u had more luck than us.
BTW i have endo and poly cystic ovaries


----------



## Deb111

Y B AVG said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm really hoping and praying that there was a problem with the collection. He collected at home and it was almost two hours before he dropped it off, but the instructions said no more than two hours. If not then I hope there is a quick and easy fix. I'm over 35 and DH is older and I don't know if he would be open to surgery since we already have a child. So much to think about over the next three weeks. No one knows we are TTC so, it's good to know you all are out there to listen as we deal with the next chapter in our journey.

Hubby has always done his samples at the clinic, but I'm sure I've read that sample should be at clinic within 45 minutes if doing it off site. 2 hours seems a very long time :shrug:


----------



## Deb111

Hi Tigerlily and Mrs Mazzeo and welcome :flower:

Tigerlily - we are seeing Mr Ramsay in London - I'm sure he does some NHS work and if you're in the area there wouldn't perhaps be the stress of trying to fight to get the funding transferred. I've just found something that seems to suggest that he doesn some NHS work at West Middlesex hospital and he really is an amazing guy!

MissAma - lovely to see you back and very excited that you're planning number 2 :happydance:

Hope everyone else is ok and that anyone with upcoming appts gets some positive news xx


----------



## Y B AVG

Hubby has always done his samples at the clinic, but I'm sure I've read that sample should be at clinic within 45 minutes if doing it off site. 2 hours seems a very long time :shrug:[/QUOTE]

I thought so too, but it says in the paperwork that they suggest you collect at home and have it to them no longer than 2 hours. I've also read about people keeping the sample next to their body for an ideal temp, but we were never told to do that. I wish they would just order another SA so we know what we are dealing with. We have 18 days before our appointment with the doctor. 

The information in this thread has been so helpful. I'm sorry that it had to be created, but I'm thankful that everyone is coping and doing what they can to become parents or increase their family. Each of you are in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Deb111

Yes, I've read about keeping it warm too. Also, when you have next one done, ask them if they centrifuge it - sometimes centrifuging the sample can find a few that might be missed otherwise.

I'm really glad you have found this thread helpful xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

Thank you for the very warm welcome. It's nice to know we're not going through this alone. :flower:

We're still reeling from the results and have only just begun discussing the situation and what we might decide to do - depending on the outcome from our next appointments. Speaking of which, we're not sure how long we're going to have to wait to see the specialist.

Deb, that's very interesting news about Mr Ramsay. We actually live in North-West London, so we're not too far from where he practises. Our Dr is referring us to Hillingdon hospital, so I'm not sure if we can approach him and ask to be referred to Mr Ramsay instead. We were also suprised that the GP didn't send DH for a second test to be certain, but then again, he was very honest and said he's not an expert and that we'd be better off seeing the specialist.

A big concern I have is my age. If we are to go down the IVF route (which seems inevitable), I think we only get one NHS funded procedure, do we get 'bumped up' the list or any additional attempts? I guess it's impossible to make any decisions until we know all the facts. 

I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense (not that I normally do!), I'm in a daze at the moment. You just don't expect this sort of news, do you? I know you all understand what I'm going through all to well, thank goodness I found you!

Okay, it's lunchtime, so I need to step away from the Computer and go for walk to clear my (fuzzy) head.

Thank you all again and I hope that we all have our wishes fulfilled.

Much love and :hugs:

C xx


----------



## Deb111

Tigeriliy - it is so hard dealing with this kind of diagnosis, but you have to try and hold on to the fact that our hubby's have obviously had this problems a fair while at the least and until the diagnosis, we were all living in blissful ignorance that 'it will happen eventually'. I remember my husband saying "yesterday everything was fine and today I have no sperm" but I pointed out that he didn't have any sperm 'yesterday' ; the only difference 'today' was that we actually knew and until you know, you can't do anything about it :nope: At least we have a chance of dealing with it now we know. I'm just glad you sought help so soon and try not to worry too much about your age - I'm 37 - yes of course it worries me too, but you've got a year on me :winkwink:


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi girls. I wanted to give you an update. Welcome newbies too :) 

So my oh had his ultrasound and tubes up his penis. Basically one of his testicles is severely damaged with scar tissue, the other has some damage. No turning back for one but the other, he thinks some of the scar tissue might be causing a blockage and it 'may' possibly be removed. He has referred him to a surgeon so he can decide what to do next.
They also took 2 samples, one tissue and one sperm (not 100%). 
So that's where we are :( At least we know and at least there is hope :)

For the girls that have had just 1 sa done, please don't try to worry, there are lots of reasons why no sperm shows, after my OH's first sa, they put him on 2 rounds of strong antibiotics incase an infection was affecting this. 
Also I would have thought 2 hours is way too long, when my oh went for sa, he was given 1 hour max to bring it to the hospital and keeping it warm (container on his skin). 

Good luck everybody :) x x


----------



## WANBMUM

Ps when I say sperm I mean particle's where they hope to find sperm :) (sorry I read it back and it didn't make sense)


----------



## Deb111

Wanbmum - I'm glad the dr has given you some hope. Have they sent the samples to pathology to look for sperm?

Hope you're both doing ok xx


----------



## silverbell

Wanb, I'm glad there's a bit of hope. Do you know when you'll get the results? 

---

So excited about tomorrow! Can't wait to just know what to do next.


----------



## Deb111

Very excited for you! Have a safe trip and look forward to hearing your news xx


----------



## Sar187

Wanbmum, glad to see you got some hopeful news from your appointment. 

DH called the Dr.'s office to get the records that he had his hernia surgery, and had to fill out release forms for them. Now even though they were looking at them when he was there it takes a week for them to be released and then he has to pay a fee to get them. Go figure a Dr.'s office would charge you to get your own medical records for yourself :).


----------



## Deb111

We had to pay £50 for hubby's records from the fertility clinic :growlmad:


----------



## WANBMUM

Thanks Girls :)

Good luck tomorrow Silverbell, keep us posted :)

My OH has to go back on 19th Aug, he is also trying to get an app with the surgeon before then, so he will look at all his files etc and they will send any further results to the surgeon. So fingers crossed he can get the app before 19th.
My hubby is chuffed with the results as he really had expected and prepared for the worst. Because I have been more optimistic, I think I am in shock really, the confirmation that one testicle is basically not functioning is kind of sad really :( But I will remain optimistic and positive, at least we werent getting that news about the 2 of them. I am so glad my OH is happy and its great to see the scariness/terror off of his face.


----------



## KB38

I live in QLD MissAma. I've never been to WA but have heard its gorgeous. Lots of beaches and awesome wine regions too!

Good luck today Silverbell. Have my fingers crossed for some positive news for you and your OH.

I hope everyone else is feeling ok too. Its such a rollercoaster ride isn't it. One minute I think I'm fine the next I'm crying my eyes out...


----------



## silverbell

I'm so glad wanb that your DH is feeling a bit more positive and I do hope his test results give you guys even more positivity. 

Yes,KB. It sure is a roller coaster of emotions. It's just horrible. 

Thanks for your well wishes ladies. On the ferry now (hence the Internet access). Very excited to get some explanations of blood results and his thoughts on the next step.


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## tigerlily1975

Good luck, Silverbell! I hope it goes well.

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

KB38 said:


> I live in QLD MissAma. I've never been to WA but have heard its gorgeous. Lots of beaches and awesome wine regions too!
> 
> Good luck today Silverbell. Have my fingers crossed for some positive news for you and your OH.
> 
> I hope everyone else is feeling ok too. Its such a rollercoaster ride isn't it. One minute I think I'm fine the next I'm crying my eyes out...

Oh, I know exactly what you mean. We only found out on Wednesday and I think we're still both kind of 'numb'. I cried for the whole of Wednesday, but have perked up a bit after find you lovely ladies. Although, I did have a little sob on the tube to work Friday morning.... did mean I got a bit more space as people didn't want to sit next to the blubbing woman!!

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

WanBMum: I'm keeping everything crossed for you.

C xx


----------



## silverbell

Hey ladies. Thanks so much for your lovely thoughts.

Here is a cut and paste from my journal:

Basically DH's bloods are all ok in Mr Ramsay's opinion and nothing to worry about in terms of improving with medication. He said although his testosterone is on the lower side of normal, it is certainly not low enough to worry about and will NOT harm him at this level, despite our gp's panic! He said the oestradiol fits well with his testosterone and gives a good ratio. Also his very high FSH level is not harmful and shows that his pituitary gland in his brain has recognized the problem and is trying its best to fix it, which is a normal and encouraging response. 

DH was so relieved to hear all this and that his body 'isn't completely screwed up'. He says it was a massive relief to hear the low testosterone is ok too and won't harm him. He feels like a weight has been lifted. 

Long story short, Mr Ramsay got the letter from our Urologist and says he's going to process it at the Hammersmith London NHS hospital, will see DH for consultation there around October and microTESE around December. 

So I know we're talking waiting until October just to be put on the waiting list and then until around December for the microTESE, and it kills me to be waiting this long, but at the same time DH and I feel that although we could get it done now privately for around £3500 (which would be a struggle and would require a bit of borrowing), it would only really bring the op forwards by a couple of months, as we have some things coming up that just can't be cancelled or changed about (his Ferrari weekend, his nose op, our mini holiday away, going up to visit family and meet some forum buddies etc). So for the sake of a couple of months more waiting, we'd much rather do that than lose £3,500. We didn't expect it to be so soon on the NHS.

Another reason that it's OK being a bit of a wait is that I'm due to be seen by the Gynae team in mid-September in order to 'get worked up' prior to IVF (or IUI if we have to use donor sperm). They'll need to do whatever tests they need to do and possibly refer me to the Fertility Clinic in Southampton or Portsmouth and I guess this could all take a while anyway. 

So even though it's soooo horrible waiting and we'd much rather just have had it all done yesterday, we know waiting is the right (and financially sensible) thing to do. 

Mr Ramsay also arranged for us to speak to the Embryologist who was on-site and so we saw her after him and she went into more detail about the ICSI I would require if sperm were found on microTESE and IVF as well as IUI if we had to use donor sperm. Lots of talk about donor sperm, which just further confirmed to us that it's definitely what we'll do if DH has no sperm.

Soooo glad we went and saw him and the relief on DH's face afterwards was so obvious. He looks like he's had a weight lifted and it has given us a bit more hope. We're still well aware we could end up with no sperm on biopsy, but a little bit more hope was much-needed and we got it after today. We both said we'd have paid 4 times the amount we paid today for the peace of mind, education and help we got. 

Yay!


----------



## Deb111

So pleased your appt went well and that he has given you some much needed support and information :thumbup: Great that it's helped dh mentally too

It's great that you will be able to get the treatment on the NHS and I really think by the time you've got all your results sorted and got your head round things, it will be here before you know it. I know our situation is slightly different, but we saw Mr R in April this year and Terry's op won't be until Oct / Nov so it's not always really quick with private treatment

If you're anything like me after a long day with an appt, you're probably :sleep: by now lol

xx :friends:


----------



## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> So pleased your appt went well and that he has given you some much needed support and information :thumbup: Great that it's helped dh mentally too
> 
> It's great that you will be able to get the treatment on the NHS and I really think by the time you've got all your results sorted and got your head round things, it will be here before you know it. I know our situation is slightly different, but we saw Mr R in April this year and Terry's op won't be until Oct / Nov so it's not always really quick with private treatment
> 
> If you're anything like me after a long day with an appt, you're probably :sleep: by now lol
> 
> xx :friends:

Thanks, Deb!

Yep, all in all it was just wonderful and has done so much for us both. I'm so glad we decided to go.

Yes, I think we seem to have a lot of things to keep us busy over the next couple of months, so hopefully it'll whizz by. That's why I put a new ticker up - next thing to look forward to and all that.

Not quite sleeping yet, but close!


----------



## KB38

I'm really happy for you Silverbell. What were your DH's blood test results again?

I agree with Deb111 that the time will fly by and I love your idea of using a ticker for something other than ovulation or medical appointments :thumbup:. 

We've got our next appointment tomorrow to find out all of DH's results and talk about where to from here. I guess we'll know exactly where we stand (even though I don't expect anything different from what we've already been told). 

We're both coming to terms with the idea of using donor sperm if it is our only option so I don't think I'll be too upset about it all when they start talking about it tomorrow. I am going to sit down tonight and work out a list of questions though as I don't feel that we've fully explored DH's options.

I hope you've all had a lovely weekend xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

SilverBell: I've just been reading your journal and I'm at the part where you found out. You are describing exactly how I fee right now. I'm so unbelievably sad.

I'm so pleased you had a great meeting with Mr Ramsay and I wish with all my heart that you get the right results and get your baby - as I wish everyone else, too.

C xx


----------



## WANBMUM

Silverbell - so glad it went well. Great relief for both of you. 
October really isnt that far away and the time will fly :)
It is great you know where you stand with IVF, IUI etc.

Good luck tomorrow KB38. Keep us posted. Fingers crossed you get some good news :)


----------



## silverbell

Thanks ladies. KB, he had testosterone of 8 and high FSH and low oestradiol. 

I hope the appointment tomorrow goes well. 

Tiger, I'm so sorry that is how you're feeling right now. If it's any consolation it does get better when the shock subsides and you learn more about options and causes etc. I really feel for you and hope you don't feel this way for too much longer.


----------



## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> SilverBell: I've just been reading your journal and I'm at the part where you found out. You are describing exactly how I fee right now. I'm so unbelievably sad.
> 
> C xx

Tiger, have a look at my video journal link on page 1 if you feel up to it. It's quite emotional, but will definitely make you realise that you're not alone and might help you to put some of what you're feeling into words :friends:

KB - will be thinking of you both tomorrow xx


----------



## Deb111

Oh and girls - don't forget to point your dh's in the direction of the azoo thread hubby set up https://www.southwestvasectomyreversal.com/forum/viewthread/180/
I'm sure it will do them good to realise that they're not going through this alone xx


----------



## silverbell

I meant to tell you, Deb, I did tell my DH about that thread, but he was a bit wary that anybody could just read it despite the fact he could create an anonymous name :shrug: Great idea though and I'm sure I could persuade him if more people joined and got talking?


----------



## Deb111

It's an american website, totally separate to this site and the whole site is about male infertility issues so I can't see that people would just go on there if they too didn't have a problem. But like you say, if he's not comfortable with it then he wouldn't benefit from it. Hopefully soem more people will join and like you say, he might then.

I guess because I can't imagine NOT having such a wonderfully supportive group of people to go through all this with on here, I think our men must need it too - but maybe not :dohh: lol Time will tell xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Good luck for tomorrow, KB38. I really, really hope you have some positive news.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> tigerlily1975 said:
> 
> 
> SilverBell: I've just been reading your journal and I'm at the part where you found out. You are describing exactly how I fee right now. I'm so unbelievably sad.
> 
> C xx
> 
> Tiger, have a look at my video journal link on page 1 if you feel up to it. It's quite emotional, but will definitely make you realise that you're not alone and might help you to put some of what you're feeling into words :friends:
> 
> KB - will be thinking of you both tomorrow xxClick to expand...

Thank you so much, I'm really fragile (a.k.a. weepy!) at the mo', but when I feel a bit stronger, I will most certainly look at your video. It must've taken a lot of strength to record it?

Once again, thank you for the support and tremendous warmth :hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

I just wanted to say a big thank you again for all the help, advice and support you've given me. I'm in a really low place at the moment, but I think I'd be feeling even worse if I hadn't found you. :hugs:

Having only just found out, I know we're at the very early stages of dealing with this issue and coming to terms with it, but we've already been discussing options. So, I just wanted to ask a general question; was the the idea of using a sperm donor ever an issue?

At the moment, I just don't think I can go down that route. I know that if we really want even a partially biological child, it may be the only option, but right now I think I'm too heartbroken to even think about it. 

I'd be intrigued to read some of your stories/thoughts.

Much love, 

C xx

P.S. Please, for the sake of my dwindling sanity, someone keep me away from Google!! :wacko:


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## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerlily1975 said:
> 
> 
> SilverBell: I've just been reading your journal and I'm at the part where you found out. You are describing exactly how I fee right now. I'm so unbelievably sad.
> 
> C xx
> 
> Tiger, have a look at my video journal link on page 1 if you feel up to it. It's quite emotional, but will definitely make you realise that you're not alone and might help you to put some of what you're feeling into words :friends:
> 
> KB - will be thinking of you both tomorrow xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you so much, I'm really fragile (a.k.a. weepy!) at the mo', but when I feel a bit stronger, I will most certainly look at your video. It must've taken a lot of strength to record it?
> 
> Once again, thank you for the support and tremendous warmth :hugs:
> 
> C xxClick to expand...

It's not a video as such - it's basically pictures with my thoughts and feelings to music. It was strange doing it because I planned to do a bit each day but once I sat down and started, that was it, I ploughed on the whole weekend until it was finished. It was very cathartic and did me a lot of good - it also got things straight in my head I suppose, BUT because I was so wrapped up in the process of putting it together, it didn't upset me and I don't get upset now watching it either :shrug:


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## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello everyone :hi:
> 
> I just wanted to say a big thank you again for all the help, advice and support you've given me. I'm in a really low place at the moment, but I think I'd be feeling even worse if I hadn't found you. :hugs:
> 
> Having only just found out, I know we're at the very early stages of dealing with this issue and coming to terms with it, but we've already been discussing options. So, I just wanted to ask a general question; was the the idea of using a sperm donor ever an issue?
> 
> At the moment, I just don't think I can go down that route. I know that if we really want even a partially biological child, it may be the only option, but right now I think I'm too heartbroken to even think about it.
> 
> I'd be intrigued to read some of your stories/thoughts.
> 
> Much love,
> 
> C xx
> 
> P.S. Please, for the sake of my dwindling sanity, someone keep me away from Google!! :wacko:

As far as google goes, it is exhausting just googling aimlessly about azoospermia, but it is so hard not to! If I were you I would take some time to read through this thread from the start (and maybe some of our journals) - it will save you a lot of research and complicated jargon and then you can jot down things that you might want to google futher. I really do feel that gathering info about it, helps us to feel pro-active in a situation where you otherwise can feel VERY out of control and useless.

With regards to the donor sperm, I understand how you feel; it's something that I don't know if I could deal with, but at the same time, needed to know it was an option that was out there for us should we ever need it - and my husband said he was certainly open to discussing it if necessary, but thanks to his aunt (long story) he is now dead against it and wont even discuss it - he just says that now we are getting the right help; it will all be fine and wont be an issue anyway. I hope to God he's right, but I do feel like I've lost my safety net. It is something you would HAVE to have counselling for before you could go ahead with it anyway and there have been some wonderful success stories with sperm donors in this thread.

I hope you start to feel a little better soon - you WILL find the strength from somewhere to pick yourselves up and move on with this journey towards getting your little one - you only have to look how far people like silverbell have come in just over a month I think it is xx


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## Sar187

Silverbell, Glad your appointment seems to have gone well and that your OH's spirits seem to have improved a bit now. It also seems like you have a lot to keep you buys/look forward to over the coming months while you wait for your next step :).

Tigerlily, I know how you feel about google, it is good and bad at the same time. Without it I wouldn't have found this thread but it can be a little overwhelming. I work at a computer all day and hard sometimes to stop myself. It does get better, but it is still a roller coaster ride of emotions we found out in March about DH's and we both still have our days. 

Good luck to all those with upcoming appointments!


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## silverbell

Good luck today, KB :hugs:

Tiger, for me before all this happened I just couldn't understand how anybody could use donor sperm ... but I must say my opinion has changed to the complete opposite since DH's diagnosis :blush: Just goes to show that you really can't comment or judge until you're in the situation that requires it.

I bounced the idea off DH a few days after we found out and I was very surprised how keen he was to do it. It was him pushing it that finally led to me accepting it. He says he'd much rather have a child that was part of me instead of part of neither of us. Plus, for him he said that the whole pregnancy thing was something he'd always thought of as being a shared experience and he couldn't imagine me never being pregnant and not sharing that time with me and not being there for any birth. 

It is obviously a very personal decision and only one the 2 of you can make together, but if you're not happy to think about it now then please don't and just wait until you're in a better place before considering it. I will say, though, that for us it helped a great deal as at least we knew we would have a baby one day, whether biologically DH's or not. Don't get me wrong - knowing I may never have DH's biological child is devastating and heartbreaking, but at the same time I'm pleased there is the option still for me to get pregnant and have a baby and that DH is so keen for this to happen. He continues to amaze me. :cloud9:


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## wibble wobble

Hi everyone 

I haven't been on here for a while,so I'm a bit lost in the postings. will try to be better in future.

I had a bit of breakthrough with hubby regarding the issue of donor sperm. Initially he didn't want to know. Then he said he would think about it if he gets the tese done and they find none. I said to him a while back that he should really think about it before as it's a possibility and better to think a little now rather than be in the position your told it's the only option (sorry I'm rambling a bit) the other day he said that 'obviously we'll go ahead with donor sperm I'll just need time to get over never having biological kids' 

I found out today that we should get the tese appointment through in the next 2-3 weeks too so I'm actually counting down the days until 3 weeks from today. I'm so excited just to know that the appointment will be here soon!

sorry for the ME post it's just the first time in almost 2 months that I've had something to look forward to..... A LETTER!!! How sad!!!


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## wifeyw

Hi wibble wobble, I was the same with DH and donor option but i sort of had mixed feelings myself. I said we will leave it as a plan B if we need to come to it then we will but we gotta have that other option after all its better than none. DH had his TESA today we both were very anxious think the nerves got the best of DH as its in a sensitive area and i was worried about the results so glad its done with now though and DH is recovering fine still sore though but they gave us the result a couple hours later and they found some wigglies there so all is good and they r testing to see if they freeze ok and if not then DH has to get the TESA done again so fingers crossed we have to find that out tomarrow. But i wish u all the luck in the world and i think its like everything as time goes on it doesn't get easier.. you cope with things more so you see your options in a different way i think thats what most DH goes through mines certainly did. Your time will go in so quick. how is your DH feeling about the actual procedure? we are awaiting a review appointment now in 6-8 weeks so its a waiting game but still can't wait to see what is the next step. I've learnt to keep busy and time goes by in a flash. best of luck and babydust xx


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## silverbell

Fantastic news, wifeyw! :thumbup: :wohoo: I bet you're both over the moon. I hope you get further good news today.

Hey wibble wobble. I'm glad you and your DH seem to have come to a decision about 'plan B'. It can really help to have a 'backup plan'.

I wish DH's op was in the next 2 to 3 weeks instead of around December :nope: Oh well, c'est la vie and at least it's all going to be free.

Don't apologise about a 'me' post - that's what this thread is all about I think. Sharing our own personal journeys and lending an ear to others. :hugs: Hope you get that letter soon!


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## Charmed33

Hello, Not really sure how this site works....My husband and I have been trying for 2+ years and he was just tested about 6 months ago (our original doctor told us it's usually the female with infertility issues (???), so he didn't want to test my husband. My new OB immediately tested my husband, who has azoospermia of unknown cause. Now our only option is donor sperm...We're planning on going ahead with this, and we talk about it a lot. I want to be supportive of my husband...not sure what issues guys all face with the idea of donor sperm. Any insights would be helpful.


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## silverbell

Hello, Charmed, and sorry you find yourself here.

Has your husband been advised about TESE - a biopsy of the testicle to try to retrieve sperm? Prior to considering donor sperm?

https://www.donor-conception-network.org/

This site is very helpful. 

We'll be using donor sperm if mTESE is unsuccessful. It's a big decision and there's certainly a lot to talk and think about.

That's shocking about your previous doctor. I have read that fertility problems are roughly a 50/50 split between male and female factors. How frustrating (for you both) that he was so dismissive of your husband.


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## Bookworm

Hi Everyone - and hi all the new people! I've been purposely staying away the last while and I'm sorry to see so many new people finding themselves here in such a short time! But at the same time glad that the site/thread is here for support!! It always really shocks me how many people are dealing with this...

And so much happening since I last checked into the thread! Movement for lots of you :thumbup:

With the donor sperm I thought I'd chip in as (I think?) we're in the minority of couples who are not planning on going down that route if that becomes an issue.

When we got the news of dh azoospermia at first I was devasted - tigerlilly you're response is 100% normal!! And DH was so sad to see just how devastated I was - there is such a deep desire in me to be pregnant, to know that little life is growing and to see my belly expand, to feel the kicks and punches and ultimately to give birth and hold my newborn child in my arms... and knowing that might never happen still brings tears to my eyes (threatening to spill over as I type!). But when, in those first few days, dh said brightly "well there's always the option of donor sperm" I only had to think for a few seconds; if it was the other way would I be happy for a donor egg/surogate? And the answer was 'no'. And the truth is that I don't want to have anyone else's child but dh's - I never thought about children until I met him, and was never a broody sort. And when I said that to him his relief was clear - it's not a path he wanted to go down but he was willing to in order to make me happy (or at least happier). 

I'm grateful that he was willing to consider it, but if the biopsy is the final word for us re TTC then we'll take time to grieve and probably move on to look at adoption. I have to admit that the temptation is there to put it back on the table for discussion... but that's the selfish part of me that wants to be pregnant, when I think of the reality of it I know that's not for us.


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## Deb111

Firstly welcome Charmed :flower: I too am shocked at your first doctor dismissing your husband and also shocked that (unless I misunderstand) you have been given the diagnosis and told that donor sperm is your only option. Have a look at the link silverbell has given you - there really are things that you can at least try before knowing that donor sperm / adoption are your only options. Have you been told if they think it is ostructive azoo or non-obstructive?

Wifeyw - that's such wonderful news!!! So thrilled for you both and hope you get some good news about the freezing :thumbup:

Bookworm - reading what you wrote about your decision over donor sperm really touched me. It can't be easy to put yourself in your hubby's shoes and shows how selfless you are. I really hope and pray things work out for you one way or another 

As for me, I've had my CD3 load of blood tests done today ready for The Lister Clinic (6 vials of blood!!!) and hubby has had all his bloods done too. He should get his testosterone one back on friday so we'll see if the tamoxifen has made any difference!! :shrug:

Hope everyone else is doing well :thumbup:


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## Bookworm

Thanks Debs - but I feel that I shouldn't mis-lead: I'm no angel:dohh: I know in my heart of heart that donor sperm is not the path for us so it's not that selfless really! I'm actually very very selfish and am struggling against it :haha: 

Charmed - maybe we've picked you up wrong, what tests has your OH been through to get the diagnosis of 'unexplained azoospermia'? Have you gone from 0 sperm count straight to Donor Sperm - or have we taken you up wrong and there were more steps in between? the usual path that most people here are working / have worked through seems to be hormone tests, some genetic tests and biopsy to confirm a total lack of any viable swimmers - have you guys gone through all that?


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## silverbell

What an honest and thoughtful post, bookworm. I do so hope that Friday brings you both very happy news. 

Just to add some more thoughts on the subject of donor sperm. . .

For us it was a decision we both spent a long time considering and donor sperm is most definitely not for everyone and is extremely personal to each couple. DH told me he had always imagined me pregnant and attending scans and being there at the birth and being denied that experience was heartbreaking to him. He also said he'd rather have a child half of one of us biologically than neither of us. He also said that any child we had together would be incredibly loved and cherished and that it doesnt just take his genes to be a blessing. I did wonder what we'd do if the issues were reversed and I think I would have gone for donor egg for the exact same reasons. As I say it really is very personal and each of us is very different in the way we look at things. It's a decision that must be made as a couple and we're all different. But you'll know the right decision for the both of you.


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## WANBMUM

Hi Girls and welcome Charmed 33 :)

Silverbell has referred you to an amazing website, it really gives you an insight into donor's from every aspect/point of view, some great stories from the men themselves and how they found it. 
My OH was the first to mention Donor sperm months back and I must say I got quite a shock and my initial thoughts were 'no way' but having discussed and researched, we have decided it is something we have as a back up plan, before adoption etc. My OH is ALL for it, I am also willing to do anything but I know it wont be such an easy journey for me. 
I also put myself in my OH's shoes and he explained to me, he would give anything to have a baby with me, to have my baby and if not a part of him, at least it would be a part of me. The same way I think, I will give anything to have my hubbys baby. so from his point of view I would like to give him that. But again, it really is a personal choice. 
My OH thinks even if a baby was dropped to our front door, we would cherish and love it as if it was our own, no difference. Ok i am waffling a bit, but that is how we think about it. 
Dont get me wrong, once you decide on donor sperm there is a whole different aspect to consider, do you go for an anonymous donor, open, do you tell your child, do you keep it a secret, do you tell your family? etc etc etc
But we wont worry too much at the moment - even though I have a fair idea how I would go about it. :)


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## wibble wobble

Welcome charmed...... you should definately ask for hubby to have more tests done,it may be that he has sperm that can be removed by ssr and used in icsi

silverbell it's just the appointment letter that will be arriving in the next 3 weeks(I'm excited just at getting the letter through), the actual tese could be quite a way off still.... I'm hoping it will be between 12 and 18 weeks after receiving the letter so it's done by the end of the year. I'm so ready to have a baby... realistically thinking (which I don't really want to!prefer to be hopelessy optimistic) I probably wont start treatment til early next year,after the tese I have to get referred to the fertility clinic at the hospital (a few weeks) wait for the pct to confirm they will fund us (another few weeks) go to the patient information evening for ivf (probs a few more weeks) then you have to go for 2 day bloods on your next cycle... it just feels like something is happening now after waiting 7 weeks and hearing nothing.

Wanbmum there are loads of different things to consider with donor sperm and none of it's easy either. Me and my hubby have decided that if we have to use donor,then it'll stay between the 2 of us. Obviously we'd have to tell the baby when he/she is old enough,probably wait until he/she is mature enough not to throw your not my dad and can't tell me what to do at hubby.... can donors still remain anonymous? I thought the laws had been changed

Deb are you starting treatment soon?


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## silverbell

Wibble, I wonder if you could get referred to the Fertility Clinic ahead of DH having his TESE? That's what I'm hoping to do. I'm seeing the Gynae Dept in September and going to ask them if they'll refer me from there, in readiness. It's worth a try at least.

Most ops have to be done within 18 weeks nowadays, but I don't know if this is the case for SSR. I hope it is. 

Donor sperm is no longer anonymous in the UK. :thumbup:

Telling people is one of the things they counsel each couple about. DH and I will be telling close friends and family and the child from very early on. We've read this is the best way to do things, as the child never feels they were lied to and as everybody else knows it's not a big shock to the child and is 'normal'. Telling is, again, a very personal decision. There's so much to think about with regards to donor sperm. I sooooo hope that neither of us have to go down that route ... but it is comforting for us to know that it is an option should we need it.


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## KB38

Congratulations wifey!!! I am so very happy for you and your OH. 

Fingers crossed you get some good news from your tests Deb111. I watched your video the other day and cried my eyes out. It was like you were in my head. So therapeutic. :thumbup:

Thanks all for your posts about donor sperm. To be honest, I don't know which way we will go. I agree that the counselling we went to was really helpful but like everyone has said, it is just such a personal decision. DH was initially completely opposed to the idea but the other day one of DH's best friends was talking about his baby looking up at him like he was the best thing in the world. DH said, 'do you think he knows that your his dad' and his friend (who by the way we haven't told what was going on) said 'you know, I don't know but what I do know is that he knows I love him more than anything and I'll always be here for him. So if that's what being a dad is, I guess he does'. I had to leave the room because I started crying. Since then DH has been all about donor sperm and keeps assuring me that he's pretty sure he can fit all of the Dad criteria. What I didn't realise was how he had equated not being able to produce sperm with not being able to be a good parent. Its weird but his outlook has totally changed from being what he calls "a provider of dodgy DNA" to "a provider for our children". I'm not quite in the same headspace and I'm not sure he'll stay where he is now but it is so nice to see him positive. 

Well, as for me,....I was really hoping to go and have an informed discussion with someone who knew what they were talking about at our appointment on Monday but, unfortunately, it seemed that I knew far far more than our doctor did. What I could get out of him is that there doesn't seem to be any "known genetic cause" for DH's azoospermia and the official diagnosis is sertoli cell only syndrome BUT, despite me double checking that they would before and after the procedure, the pathology lab didn't test to see if it was the pure form or the mixed form. 

When I asked the specialist why he said that it was unnecessary because they had done 4 (not 6) biopsies and only got sertolic cells. I am really, really disappointed with this because DH (as part of his degree at uni - at least that is what he is telling me) had gave a semen sample for examination in one of his lab classes and he had "plenty" of sperm then. I only wish he'd saved some :dohh: LOL!!! To make matters worse, the doctor then proceeded to go through our options which were essentially to use donor sperm or not to have children at all. When I asked what we could do to actually make sure DH was ok health-wise, he looked at me blankly and said "I thought you wanted a baby". Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr..............

I've had a long chat to our GP who agrees with me that the whole thing is entirely unsatisfactory. He agrees with me that we need to look at regularising (or at least having someone consider whether we need to) regularise his hormones. We are also going to change specialists. I'm waiting to hear back from him now about what happens next. When I get the official blood test results (which should be in the mail anyday), I'm planning to get back into finding a decent doctor mode.

DH and I are going away this weekend. We've picked an adult only resort so we don't have to face anyone's babies and we plan to just spend time together and for the first time in over a year not talk about what time of the month it is, whether I should drink, ttc, no sperm, or doctors. 

Sorry for my super long venting post. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend and I look forward to hearing all of your good news very soon, xx


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## silverbell

Ah, that's ever so sweet about what your DH's friend said about his boy :cloud9: Also great that it had such a positive effect on your DH and I hope it continues.

We got sick of seeing people who didn't know what they were talking about and that's why we were so relieved last Saturday to see Mr Ramsay. It was such a pleasure to talk to somebody who knew the subject inside out. I felt like I was educating the professionals before we met him, so it was nice for it to be the other way around like it should be.

I'm so sorry they weren't as well-informed as they should be. That's a ridiculous response to your question about making sure DH was OK health-wise. How insensitive and unhelpful :hugs:

I am ever so pleased you'll be changing Specialists.

Very well done on booking a weekend away just the 2 of you with no kids around. It'll be so lovely and I think will do you both the world of good. I hope you both enjoy yourselves and relax and just enjoy each others' company. Have a wonderful time, KB.


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## silverbell

Deb, just wanted to say I finally just got around to watching your video on page 1 and I'm glad I did. It sums everything up perfectly - the frustration, the tears, the injustice and the strength to go on. Thank you for a lovely way of expressing everything we - and all others affected by infertility - are going through. :hugs:


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## Sar187

Charmed, Welcome though i'm sorry you are having to join the thread. I can't give much insight on the donor sperm as its something that DH and I haven't really considered too much at the moment. We briefly mentioned it but I'm not sure right now if I could actually wrap my mind around it, and I know its something he doesn't really want to consider at the moment so If it comes to it then we will consider what options we have.

Deb, I hope you get good news from the blood results!

KB38, Sorry to hear that your appointment didn't go anywhere near as well as you had hoped. I think it sounds like a good choice for you to switch specialists. Hope you have a great trip with your hubby I'm sure it will do you both good!

As for me DH just did a health/wellness checkup at his work and found out that his glucose is high and he is pre-diabetic and has high blood pressure so he finally decided to listen to me and start eating healthier and exercising more. He is getting in to get checked for that stuff now, one more thing :). At least the healthier lifestyle should also help him be healthy for all the infertility stuff!

We did get the records from his hernia surgery which was done when he was 5 months old. He had what they called hydrocelectomy/inguinal hernia surgery. The report mentions the vas deferens and the pampiniform plexus(veins in the spermatic cord). I also found an abstract from a scientific journal that shows 3 cases where this surgery caused azoospermia later in life. So hopefully we can get the proof that insurance wants that this is what has caused his azoospermia!

I Filled out almost all our papers for our IVF consultation this coming monday. I don't think its fair that i have 6 pages of question and he has 1 but oh well :). I also told DH I want to sit down and make a list of all the questions and such we have for the appointment. Is there anything in particular any of you would suggest asking?


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## silverbell

Hey that's great about the glucose being picked up, Sar, and I'm glad he's doing something about it :thumbup:

Not long now until your consultation.

That sounds promising about having found evidence with regards to the surgery and azoospermia. I hope this will satisfy the insurance company.


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## luckdragon

Hi guys how are you all? hope your all well. Sorry I havnt been on in a while i just tried to put things to the back of my mind a bit. 
Today we had our first appointment with the consultant at the hospital and it didn't go as well as i'd hoped. She said that because dhs fsh and lh were so high this indicated that there was no point in doing a sperm retrieval because it meant there was too much damage done and our only option would be to use a donnor. 

We are gutted, and my dh is adament he wont use a donnor :-( so I don't know what to do or say.

how are you all getting on? xxxx


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## silverbell

Luck, that doesn't sound right to me at all.

My DH has a very high FSH (43 I think it was at last test) and Mr Ramsay - who is the UK expert - said last Saturday that this was proof that DH's body knew something was wrong and was trying to fix it. It was entirely normal and was in fact a natural and encouraging response.

I'll go and find what his LH level was. Mr R didn't mention that, but I'm pretty sure doctors shouldn't be dismissing SSR just because of some blood results. Everything I have read has suggested that you can get entirely different sperm retrieval results on each individual and no one test can completely determine what they will find on biopsy. If you PM me your email address I will send you 2 articles that Dr Schlegel sent me that verifies this (and he is the worlds' azoo expert).

:hugs:

EDIT - had a look and last LH was 16.8 and wasn't mentioned by Mr Ramsay.

I must say that our visit to Mr Ramsay was the best £200 we've ever spent :thumbup: Cannot recommend him enough.


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## Deb111

Wow I keep missing so many posts - no matter what I do and how many times I subscribe, I don't get email updates for this thread like I do others :growlmad:

Anyway ...

Wibble - we are probably heading for EC Oct / Nov time to co-incide with when Mr Ramsay feels is the right time for hubby's microTESE but our first appt at IVF clinic is 3 weeks today! :argh:

KB - what a lovely and very touching story about your dh and his friend :thumbup::cry:

Silverbell and KB - I'm so glad you found the video helpful :thumbup: I will have to start thinking about another one for our next stage of the journey!

Thanks to all of you for your good wishes for the blood test results :kiss:


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## luckdragon

dhs lh was high 20 somethings or other :-/ i can't remember now though silly me. should have written it down


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## silverbell

Have PM'd you, luck. I'm really quite angry for you.

I honestly feel if you can make it to Mr Ramsay or at least email him it would be worth it. :hugs:


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## Bookworm

Luckdragon, sorry to hear you've hit a bit of a road block, but hopefully another avenue will open up through SilverBell's info (thank god for this forum!!).

Good luck Deb111 too - hope it all goes really smoothly. I've noticed the same thing with the subscription btw - weird. But since I'm obsessing a bit atm & visiting daily I'm managing to keep up:blush:

We're off for our TESE/biopsy tomorrow (hence the obsessing). I'm really terrified about what answers we're going to get - DH seems to be keeping it all together quite well; I think he's trying not to think about it until he has to. And I feel a bit guilty as I'm really focused on the outcome and feel that I should be much more concerned/sympathetic about the actual process he has to go through - bad wife! Must try better!!

And now I'm going to try to dial down my crazy so that I can get some work done! Can't get it out of my head right now - probably be right back here in a few hours:dohh:


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## wifeyw

Bookworm said:


> Luckdragon, sorry to hear you've hit a bit of a road block, but hopefully another avenue will open up through SilverBell's info (thank god for this forum!!).
> 
> Good luck Deb111 too - hope it all goes really smoothly. I've noticed the same thing with the subscription btw - weird. But since I'm obsessing a bit atm & visiting daily I'm managing to keep up:blush:
> 
> We're off for our TESE/biopsy tomorrow (hence the obsessing). I'm really terrified about what answers we're going to get - DH seems to be keeping it all together quite well; I think he's trying not to think about it until he has to. And I feel a bit guilty as I'm really focused on the outcome and feel that I should be much more concerned/sympathetic about the actual process he has to go through - bad wife! Must try better!!
> 
> And now I'm going to try to dial down my crazy so that I can get some work done! Can't get it out of my head right now - probably be right back here in a few hours:dohh:

Hi Bookworm, Just wanted to say good luck for tomarrow and i hope the outcome is what you both have been wanting. Do you know when you get the results? We got ours a couple hours later. I was the same focusing on the outcome, it's only natural i felt guilty to... even when DH was having it done i seen his face and i felt so bad because i wasn't having anything done and he was. My DH got himself worked up in the end and got quiet nervous when in the room he got a local anesthetic and gas and air but he said he had worked himself up for nothing as it wasn't as bad as he thought and the pain after was some pain and discomfort but again not as bad as he had thought. best of luck x:hugs:


----------



## Bookworm

Thanks Wifeyw - that's good to hear! He is getting a general, incase they have to go in for full biopsy so we know that much already. I got the impression from them that we'll know that day if they find anything, but not sure if it'll be straight away or a phonecall later.... should have asked that:dohh:

Think dh is starting to freak out - I chatted to him just before lunch and he was asking: so who does this surgery? how many do you think they've done before? wonder how clean this place is? :dohh: 
Just so you guys know this is the top fertility clinic in our region - matched only by the NHS specialist clinic... it is very clean, very professional - I don't think they'll have the summer intern doing the surgery :haha:

We did have a bit of a giggle but just shows you how much it is freaking him out - and I have to admit I'm a bit relieved that it is! He seemed so cool about it all up to now that thought he either is in denial or he doesn't care, or I'm just a basket case for getting myself so worked up:wacko:


----------



## Sar187

Bookworm, Hope everything goes well with the TESE/Biopsy. I think the guys get just as freaked out about things as we do, they just don't show it in the same way. I think they feel like they need to hide it a lot of times too because they feel like they should be the strong ones. I just found out DH has actually told a few people he works with about things which makes me feel a little better since his side of the family has not been very supportive of him in this since he told them. 

The urologist made it sound like DH would be getting a general anesthetic when they do the SSR and also as if we would not be doing one until they have me ready for an egg retrieval, I suppose all of that info could change once we have our IVF consultation on monday though.


----------



## lbm2009

Hi my hubby had undecended Testical corrected aged 2. The sa was 0 on one and 4 dead sperms on the centrifuge. We have been told to go for Icsi but I have noticed some of you have gone to urologists, what's the difference if it's a blockage surely a urologist would have to look at my hubby first all his bloods are ok and all my tests were fine. 
I'm getting so frustrated I have too loose weight before we get Icsi but I think we should have been referred to a urologist. 

Can anyone advise what happened to them?


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## Deb111

Welcome Ibm :flower:

My advice would be to ask for a referral to a urologist - they are the experts in these matters. He should be able to work out whether any medication would help or whether it points to a blockage.

Where abouts do you live?

Do you have a note of hubby's blood results?


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## Deb111

So apparently some of our blood test results are in ... but got to wait til tomorrow for Dr to view them before receptionist can give any details


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## tigerlily1975

Bookworm said:


> Luckdragon, sorry to hear you've hit a bit of a road block, but hopefully another avenue will open up through SilverBell's info (thank god for this forum!!).
> 
> Good luck Deb111 too - hope it all goes really smoothly. I've noticed the same thing with the subscription btw - weird. But since I'm obsessing a bit atm & visiting daily I'm managing to keep up:blush:
> 
> We're off for our TESE/biopsy tomorrow (hence the obsessing). I'm really terrified about what answers we're going to get - DH seems to be keeping it all together quite well; I think he's trying not to think about it until he has to. And I feel a bit guilty as I'm really focused on the outcome and feel that I should be much more concerned/sympathetic about the actual process he has to go through - bad wife! Must try better!!
> 
> And now I'm going to try to dial down my crazy so that I can get some work done! Can't get it out of my head right now - probably be right back here in a few hours:dohh:

Good luck for tomorrow, Bookworm. 

I hope it all goes smoothly and you get the right result.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> So apparently some of our blood test results are in ... but got to wait til tomorrow for Dr to view them before receptionist can give any details

Fingers crossed they're all good, Deb111.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Charmed33 said:


> Hello, Not really sure how this site works....My husband and I have been trying for 2+ years and he was just tested about 6 months ago (our original doctor told us it's usually the female with infertility issues (???), so he didn't want to test my husband. My new OB immediately tested my husband, who has azoospermia of unknown cause. Now our only option is donor sperm...We're planning on going ahead with this, and we talk about it a lot. I want to be supportive of my husband...not sure what issues guys all face with the idea of donor sperm. Any insights would be helpful.


Hello Charmed33 :hi:

We only found out last week and there's so much to take in, isn't there? Our GP is referring us to a specialist, but he also suggested adoption or a donor as options, but we're not quite in the right place to think about it yet.

The ladies here have been so helpful and supportive, you really couldn't have found a nicer group. 

Good luck :hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

wifeyw said:


> Hi wibble wobble, I was the same with DH and donor option but i sort of had mixed feelings myself. I said we will leave it as a plan B if we need to come to it then we will but we gotta have that other option after all its better than none. DH had his TESA today we both were very anxious think the nerves got the best of DH as its in a sensitive area and i was worried about the results so glad its done with now though and DH is recovering fine still sore though but they gave us the result a couple hours later and they found some wigglies there so all is good and they r testing to see if they freeze ok and if not then DH has to get the TESA done again so fingers crossed we have to find that out tomarrow. But i wish u all the luck in the world and i think its like everything as time goes on it doesn't get easier.. you cope with things more so you see your options in a different way i think thats what most DH goes through mines certainly did. Your time will go in so quick. how is your DH feeling about the actual procedure? we are awaiting a review appointment now in 6-8 weeks so its a waiting game but still can't wait to see what is the next step. I've learnt to keep busy and time goes by in a flash. best of luck and babydust xx

That's wonderful news, I'm so chuffed for you :happydance:

Freeze well, little swimmers!! 

C xx


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## Deb111

Luckdragon - I'm so sorry that you have come up against this ignorance :hugs:

If you're like the rest of us, you at least need to know that you've tried every avenue open to you, when and IF you need to move onto to thinking about other ways of having your family.

I really hope the info silverbell sent you was helpful - I know she found it incredibly informative and useful xx


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## Deb111

Girls - I had to share this with you - I'm sure the person who posted it wont mind ... It's always good to hear some good news stories ...

_"Our 2nd and 3rd NCT babies were born this morning (TWINS!) Naturally as well!!!!.... Her OH was azoo (from previous chemo) had TESE, only 2 fertilised eggs and taddaaa both took. So lovely news for them, a little girl and a little boy" _


----------



## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> Girls - I had to share this with you - I'm sure the person who posted it wont mind ... It's always good to hear some good news stories ...
> 
> _"Our 2nd and 3rd NCT babies were born this morning (TWINS!) Naturally as well!!!!.... Her OH was azoo (from previous chemo) had TESE, only 2 fertilised eggs and taddaaa both took. So lovely news for them, a little girl and a little boy" _

Fabulous news! Just what us ladies need to hear when things are getting us down and it all seems so hopeless.

Thanks so much for sharing and what wonderful news. Lovely :thumbup:


----------



## mumanddad

Well ladies matts chromazone results finally came in the post and after rowing with the consultant because he said they would never in this world come back normal but guess what he is DELIGHTED to tell us everything is normal..

I personally think that matts azoospermia stems from stress with his job just because of having got good sperm results at the beginning of last year, my nana thinks it is also because he has finally had time to grieve for our angel all factors of azoospermia..

Its not all doom and gloom and i really hope you all the best with your journeys.

I am always reading, hope your all well xx


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## WANBMUM

Good luck tomorrow Bookworm. I have everything crossed you get the results you are praying for and I hope you OH doesn't have too much of a tough time :)


----------



## Bookworm

Hi All - 

Thanks Debs for sharing a success story! Really nice to see some light at the end of the tunnel!!

And congratulations Mumanddad!!!!! So pleased for you - and it seems that you feel there may be a cure/reversal for azoospermia somewhere down the line for you guys? That would be amazing!

Finally thank you all so much for the good wishes! I'd gotten myself quite worked up about todays TESE (natural enough!) so the support meant a lot. 
We got the news we wanted and there are swimmers in there. And they were reasonably accessible, just 2 punctures, with both immature & matture sperm found (suggesting production is normal). We're just waiting to hear how they freeze and also we have the genetic tests still to go - but it's a big hurdle over us today:thumbup:

Thank you all again :flower:


----------



## Bookworm

This copied from my journal - putting it up here to encourage everyone to ask questions when something seems strange:

"And oddly enough we had some more movement on the gene tests too: I explained in one of the earlier posts that DH's GP, who had never heard of azoospermia or the relevant tests, initially contacted the lab to confirm that they could do the gene tests. This confirmed they took blood samples and sent them away only to call DH back to tell him that actually they couldn't. DH obviously asked why and was asked a few more questions about why he wanted them and then told that it was because the diagnosis came from a private clinic so the NHS labs wouldn't take it further until the diagnosis came from NHS. At the time we thought it strange and quite frustrating but my GP was willing to refer us to a specialist so we moved on.

Then yesterday, out of the blue, DH's GP calls him to remind him to come in again to get those tests redone... DH was a bit confused and they explained that the blood had been collected in the wrong type of container and so the test couldn't be run so they need to be taken again!!!"

So obviously the girl that made that phonecall to say the tests couldn't be run did not infact know the reason why but decided to surmise what she thought it might be based on the information she gleened from us over the phone!!


----------



## silverbell

Bookworm said:


> Finally thank you all so much for the good wishes! I'd gotten myself quite worked up about todays TESE (natural enough!) so the support meant a lot.
> We got the news we wanted and there are swimmers in there. And they were reasonably accessible, just 2 punctures, with both immature & matture sperm found (suggesting production is normal). We're just waiting to hear how they freeze and also we have the genetic tests still to go - but it's a big hurdle over us today:thumbup:
> 
> Thank you all again :flower:

Again, I'm over the moon for you and your DH, bookworm :friends:


----------



## tigerlily1975

Bookworm said:


> Hi All -
> 
> Thanks Debs for sharing a success story! Really nice to see some light at the end of the tunnel!!
> 
> And congratulations Mumanddad!!!!! So pleased for you - and it seems that you feel there may be a cure/reversal for azoospermia somewhere down the line for you guys? That would be amazing!
> 
> Finally thank you all so much for the good wishes! I'd gotten myself quite worked up about todays TESE (natural enough!) so the support meant a lot.
> We got the news we wanted and there are swimmers in there. And they were reasonably accessible, just 2 punctures, with both immature & matture sperm found (suggesting production is normal). We're just waiting to hear how they freeze and also we have the genetic tests still to go - but it's a big hurdle over us today:thumbup:
> 
> Thank you all again :flower:

That's brilliant news, Bookworm! I couldn't be happier for you. Fingers and toes firmly crossed that they're happy in the deep freeze.

:hugs:

C xx


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## Sar187

So happy for you Bookworm! Hope there are no problems with the freezing!


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## Deb111

Great news Bookworm - have posted in your journal :hugs:

MumandDad - also great news about the tests :thumbup:

It must be a good news day ... found out today that hubby's testosterone has risen from 8 in April to 13.4 now - all thanks to the tamoxifen :happydance:


----------



## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> Great news Bookworm - have posted in your journal :hugs:
> 
> MumandDad - also great news about the tests :thumbup:
> 
> It must be a good news day ... found out today that hubby's testosterone has risen from 8 in April to 13.4 now - all thanks to the tamoxifen :happydance:

Oh, yay!! :happydance:

C xx


----------



## wibble wobble

hiya loads of good news on here today!!! 

bookworm hope everything goes well with the freeze/thaw are you close to starting treatment now?

deb does the testosterone have to get much higher now? will your dh start producing sperm or will you still need to have icsi? (sorry for all the questions)

I've got some news of my own to share hubby's tese is booked in for sept 29....really wasn't expecting it to be so soon I'm so happy :)


----------



## Deb111

wibble wobble said:


> hiya loads of good news on here today!!!
> 
> bookworm hope everything goes well with the freeze/thaw are you close to starting treatment now?
> 
> deb does the testosterone have to get much higher now? will your dh start producing sperm or will you still need to have icsi? (sorry for all the questions)
> 
> I've got some news of my own to share hubby's tese is booked in for sept 29....really wasn't expecting it to be so soon I'm so happy :)

Great news - I've added your appt to the front page :thumbup:

Well our GP tells us that his levels are now within normal range and Mr Ramsay told us that even a slight increase in testosterone will have a big effect on the few sperm we know he's producing. I don't know if the level will rise anymore but we've emailed Mr Ramsay just to let him know in case he wants him to alter his medication at all, but it's all heading in the right direction :thumbup:


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## wifeyw

Sooo soo happy bookworm and mumanddad got some good news... woohoo Debs thats exciting news so over the moon they are rising. Fingers crossed for the freezing/thaw bookworm although i'm sure there all strong enough to make it through even them being sluggish is good enough ( at least thats what they told my DH) have you to phone back tomarrow for the results? Seems alot of good luck has been going about hopefully it keeps up and rubs off on the rest of you girlies xxx and wibble wobble just read about your appointment thats brilliant news.


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## Deb111

Girls, I've been really busy with work lately and haven't been very good at updating the front page so can you all check your info / appts on the front page and let me know of anything that's missing

If you can type you name followed by the info / appt, followed by date then I can just copy and paste it to the front page


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## Deb111

WifeyW - I've just seen the numbers of :spermy: in your signature!!! Fabulous news!!! :happydance:


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## Bookworm

:happydance::happydance::happydance:


Deb111 said:


> Great news Bookworm - have posted in your journal :hugs:
> 
> MumandDad - also great news about the tests :thumbup:
> 
> It must be a good news day ... found out today that hubby's testosterone has risen from 8 in April to 13.4 now - all thanks to the tamoxifen :happydance:

:dance::yipee::dance: that's such good news:thumbup: waiting is so difficult - but getting some good news at the end does make it easier.

We heard back from clinic and after they'd washed/spun/examined our swimmers there were only enough left to freeze 1 vile.... They told DH that it was our 'back-up' as they would want to to the SSR again on the day of ER to ensure success. Now I have to say if they had phoned me I'd have been asking a few more questions - like backup for what? If they don't want to u freeze it now then why keep it as we'll never know if it's ok to thaw.... Any of you ladies any ideas? I'm going to call them again on Monday and ask exactly what back up means....


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## Deb111

1 vial is still 1 vial hun :thumbup:

Well we've been told that whenever hubby gives a sample now, they will freeze anything they might find. Then on the day of EC, they will ask him to give a sample. If they find some decent ones, they will use those fresh. If not and they have some frozen, they will thaw them and see if they're any good and then if none of that works, they will do the microTESE.

Maybe that's what they meant??

You might want to consider looking into microTESE (not sure where you live sorry) as it is not random like what your hubby has had done today. If there are areas producing sperm and areas not, the microTEST will find them rather than just going into an area pot-luck xx


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## Bookworm

Yes - that's my assumption of what they meant too, but I think I'll call on Monday and ask just to make sure and put my mind at rest - I'm a great believer in stupid questions:dohh: I want to book myself in for my amh & screening anyway - we're relatively confident now that we'll be going forward with ICSI so might as well get as much of the prep out o they way as possible.

I was wondering if any of you who ave already had the genetic tests done could help me out a bit: Yesterday after the surgery we were told that the results of the genetic tests could take months - but I've been researching today and it looks like they should only take 2-3 weeks.... How long does it really take?

I'm really hoping that this was down to miscommunication and they thought we're still waiting on a referral when in fact we're actually going to provide the blood samples this week.


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## silverbell

Hey bw. I was told probably 4 weeks but not sure how accurate that is as it came from our clueless GP. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Deb111

Right I've dug out Terry's records and his karyotype was taken on 16/4 and report date is 17/5. His CF one was done on the same date and report is dated 30/4. Those reports then seem to be date stamped almost a week later as to when the clinic received them xx


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## Deb111

How's hubby today Bookworm? xx


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## WANBMUM

Hi Guys,

Some good news from some of you since I was here last. That is so good to hear and uplifting :)

For any of you that have researched ICSI, Are there any rules or regulations around us ladies having the treatment, ie do we have to be a certain weight? I am trying my hardest to lose some LB's for (more than likely) future fertility treatments, be it with hubby's sperm (please god) or with a donor, but I was just wondering, even though I am healthy (fertility wise), could they refuse just on weight? :(


----------



## Deb111

Remind me Wanbmum, are you in the UK?

If so, you can probably find out from your PCT. When we were looking at having ICSI on the NHS, I was told my BMI needed to be below 30 and yet at the same clinic, if my postcode had been 3 miles away, they didn't set an upper limit in that PCT :shrug:

From what I understand, with private treatment, they don't force you to be below a certain BMI, but I'm trying to get mine down anyway just so I'm a bit healthier xx


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## WANBMUM

Thanks Deb, Im in Ireland so I presume it would be similar.
Yes I am trying to do it just to be healthy too but also NEED to aswell/ Maybe knowing this will give me the extra kick I need :) 
Its so difficult when your emotions are up and down isnt it :( (especially as i am an emotional eater)


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## WANBMUM

PS i just see your sig, how have you managed to lose 18.5 lb's? Any tips? (bar the obvious :) )


----------



## Bookworm

Thanks sb & deb! That helps - & deb you made me laugh:winkwink: so detailed! So do you have everything filed? And I ask as a woman running 2 files on this, with dividers & everything:haha: make me feel better & tell me everyone is this neurotic:dohh:

Hubby is doing great & is currently on his way home from work!!! He even went in yesterday - I had to drive him in & collect him because he wasn't allowed to drive after drugs:dohh: He had a big thing in work this weekend & while he had it sorted that he could be off he swears that he isn't even feeling any pain and there was no stopping him - I did try, but he swears he's fine. 

While I wish he'd taken a bit more time to recuperate I can't really complain - he's picking up a Chinese & a bottle of wine on the way home; I'm relaxing at home with a good book:blush:


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## silverbell

That's great news about your DH, Bookworm! I hope he continues to do so well. Enjoy the takeaway and wine! :wine: You both deserve it.


----------



## Bookworm

Hi Wanbmum - I'm an emotional eater too! I struggle a bit with my weight and I find the only thing that REALLY works for me is exercise. I could live on salad, but if I don't exercise I balloon.

But there are a few eating habits that have helped me:

I never 'diet' anymore, as soon as I say 'I'm off chocolate' I become obsessed & can't help myself - then I hate myself an do this weird thing where I think 'well today's ruined so I'll leave it today & start tomorrow'..... But that doesn't happen cause the same thing happens the next day.

Put you're big dinner plates away and use smaller plates/bowls - this REALLY works! Generally people fill up the plate & average dinner plate holds lots more food than up you need. So small plates, or even better bowls (small amounts in a bowl looks like more and tricks your brain).

If you make more dinner than you actually need or fits on the plate, put the leftovers in a bowl/container when you're dishing out the dinner - you'll be less likely to polish it off then.

If there's something you really like DON'T save it to the end of the meal to enjoy - people who do this (I used to) are more likely to gain weight because subconsciously they've already made the decision to eat everything whether they're hungry or not - makes sense when you think about it.


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## WANBMUM

Thanks Bookworm :) Great your hubby is feeling great after it :)
Wow i never new that about your last point!! I always keep the nicest thing to the last (i try to get the veg off the plate as quick as poss) Interesting i will start doing that. 
The plate thing I am struggling with but will deffo try more of.
Exercise really is the key isnt it. 
Hope you are all having a good day. I love Sundays.


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## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> PS i just see your sig, how have you managed to lose 18.5 lb's? Any tips? (bar the obvious :) )

To be honest I have just been really careful. I'd got into some bad habits like stopping for a chocolate bar on the way home from work :dohh: so I stopped that, but I'm also a great believer in not denying yourself anything plus I don't like salads - that's why weight watchers has worked for me before and I guess I've used some of the same principles this time - although it's taken probably 6 months to lose that 18lb so it's not been quick. I've not done the whole going to meeting things - I'm not for that kind of stuff, but I do have the points for all the regular stuff I eat stuck inside the food cupboard door.

I'm an emotional eater too and I have to admit even times like when the Dr had a moan at me about my weight without bothering to check I'd lost 18lb, I went straight to the shop and bought a load of comfort food. The thing is we don't smoke, barely drink and don't eat out a lot, but we do enjoy our food :dohh:

The smaller plate thing definitely helps and I've cut down on carbs too, so if I have a stirfry, I'll sling a load more veg in there and just have half as much rice as I used to.

I don't really exercise as it bores me, but I did treat us to a wii fit and that was great for shifting the weight without feeling like exercise and the hula hooping and stuff is great for toning the waist :thumbup: Now I'm on summer hols I must get back to it. Also putting a weight loss ticker up really helped me too xx


----------



## Deb111

Bookworm said:


> Thanks sb & deb! That helps - & deb you made me laugh:winkwink: so detailed! So do you have everything filed? And I ask as a woman running 2 files on this, with dividers & everything:haha: make me feel better & tell me everyone is this neurotic:dohh:
> 
> Hubby is doing great & is currently on his way home from work!!! He even went in yesterday - I had to drive him in & collect him because he wasn't allowed to drive after drugs:dohh: He had a big thing in work this weekend & while he had it sorted that he could be off he swears that he isn't even feeling any pain and there was no stopping him - I did try, but he swears he's fine.
> 
> While I wish he'd taken a bit more time to recuperate I can't really complain - he's picking up a Chinese & a bottle of wine on the way home; I'm relaxing at home with a good book:blush:

Great that hubby is doing so well. I'm sure that having positive news helps the healing process mentally and physically.

And yes, I am a bit neurotic with all this info - BUT I haven't gone as far as dividers in my folder :haha: (mental note to get some next time I'm in Asda :winkwink: :rofl:)

To be honest I just have all that info because we had to get a copy of all our NHS records when we decided to go privately and I also have a notebook where I write down all my questions (and answers) for appointments

Someone's got to be organised with all this info and I guess it had to be me 'cos it sure as hell wasn't the NHS clinic! :dohh: xx


----------



## Bookworm

Deb111 said:


> Someone's got to be organised with all this info and I guess it had to be me 'cos it sure as hell wasn't the NHS clinic! :dohh: xx

Don't I know it! DH went back to GP this morning to give blood samples for genetic tests (the ones they initially took in the wrong vial and then when they were returned told us the reason for the test not being done was that we had a private diagnosis so they won't take it further - then weeks later called back to see why he hadn't rescheduled the tests...)
So anyway, when he got to the surgery they were only taking blood for the Karotyping. He asked about the others but the girl's job is just to take the bloods so she only knew what was on the file - they went to a GP who just shrugged and said she'd never even heard of the tests so couldn't help!!!!!!

I'm about ready to pull my hair out with DH's useless surgery! My GP (different surgery) had never heard of this stuff either, but listened to what I had to say and phoned the labs and did everything she could to get me the CF test! She couldn't have been more helpful.

I've made another appointment for DH for next week and I'm going with him - I don't think he is very good at communicating with the dr. He is a very smart guy, a business man through and through and great with numbers - but he was never 'academic' and I think he gets a bit intimidated by Drs, even though in this instance he knows more than they do...


----------



## GrantsWife

Hi guys! How are you all? 
Well, I feel silly and just wanted to come here to talk. I guess I went through a denial stage and just wanted to "think" we could still have one fun TTC cycle. :blush: :haha: Maybe it was just a need to feel "normal" for a bit but I also feel just plain silly. Please tell me I am not the only one to do this. :? 

I also guess it is just so hard because no one seems to understand and not to mention I just feel out of place because I want a baby so badly but we can't even begin to try and until maybe 2015-2016 if not more. I just want to get started so badly. We are going to be talking to a genetics counsellor soon though to see if I have the CF mutation (hubby has CF) so at least that is one step forward. 

Ugh...I just feel like I am constantly trying to fool myself. I just want a miracle to happen. Sorry for the rant, I just needed to talk it out. :cry:


----------



## GrantsWife

Also, I just want to say "Thank You" Deb111 for the video that you posted. You have no idea how much I needed to see that. It helped so much to know we aren't alone and all these feelings are normal but it still is tough.


----------



## KB38

Congratulations Bookworm and Deb111! Its sooo nice to hear some positive news. 

I don't have anything to report at the moment. No appointments planned or anything.


----------



## silverbell

Deb, just remembered you said you wanted updates from people.

Well I have no appointment dates as yet, but we're awaiting Mr Ramsay NHS appointment in order for him to list DH for NHS mTESE. The appointment with Mr Ramsay will hopefully be for some time in October. I'll update here once I have a confirmed date.
:thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

Grantswife - nice to see you back. It is so hard for all us with these waiting times that get imposed on us, but I can't imagine how hard it must be knowing you have such a wait ahead. 

I don't think it's at all strange to just want a normal TTC cycle, but it does change the whole thing when you know there will be no chance of a :bfp:

It's hard for me to comment in some ways because we have only :sex: twice in the 18 months since hubby's azoo diagnosis - I think with hubby part of it is the mental side of knowing he cannot get me pregnant, but also his hormones, especially his testosterone, have been all over the place lately.

Do you have a journal hun? It's a great place to have a rant or just to get those thoughts out. I really do find that it helps to get the thoughts out of your head and onto 'paper'. It's also interesting to look back on and see how your journey has progressed.

I'm glad you found the video helpful xx


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## Sar187

Well our appointment went Well on Monday, the Dr. gave us very good chances of 1. Finding Sperm in hubby and 2. Conceiving. They sent DH and I both for bloodwork which we had done yesterday. They prescribed me a prescription prenatal vitamin and told me to call on the first day of my cycle. At that point they are going to bring me in for a transvaginal ultrasound and to start me on a birth Control pill that will control my cycle as well as give me the hormone meds that I will be taking through the cycle. 

Everything is all moving so fast at this point that it is kind of scary! They will be retrieving my eggs and DH's sperm on the same day. The only thing that irritated me a little about the appointment was that the Dr. seemed annoyed with with us when we told him we did not want a DS backup on the day of egg/sperm retrieval, and that I would then have to either dispose of the eggs they get or donate them. I am going to call and ask about freezing them If they don't find sperm though fx that they do find some and we don't have to worry about that!


----------



## Deb111

WOW! that's great progress Sar! I think they like you to have DS as a backup mainly because it's a lot of money if they don't find anything, plus you will have put your body through a lot and I guess from a medical, clinical point of view, they don't want you to have to go through that for no reason.

Our urologist says they recommend having a DS backup, but hubby refuses and they don't insist on it. Plus our urologist is pretty confident because a previous, more random operation found tiny numbers of :spermy:

If they don't insist on a donor backup and you really don't want one, then go for it. I would definitely ask about freezing your eggs of the worst comes to the worst though - it would be a shame to waste the eggs from the IVF cycle and leaves you options for the future xx


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## Sar187

I completely understand the reasons for having the DS backup, but hubby and I are at least at this point not comfortable with using DS. They don't require the backup but I was just a little annoyed that the Dr. seemed to judge us for not wanting it. Oh well. 

I am definitely hoping they let me freeze my eggs if they don't find anything though as I wouldn't want the cycle to be a complete waste!


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## Deb111

I can't see any reason why they wouldn't let you freeze your eggs - but hoping that you wont need to. Keep us posted xx


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## Sar187

Deb--very much hoping that is the case!

I also had a question I forgot to ask when I posted earlier. Are there any supplements or vitamins DH should be taking to help make any sperm they do find healthier? I know it takes 2-3 months for any of these to take effect but we may have that amount of time between now and retrieval. We asked at the fertility clinic but they said that would be a question for the urologist who is now out of town for the next week and a half.


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## WANBMUM

Wow SAR, that is amazing news! You really are on the right track. Fingers crossed all goes to plan. :) Im not sure about supplements for hubby, i wouldnt get him to take anything unless they approve it, so many vitamins for men can go against them, thats just in my experience, i would ask them beforehand. 

Hi Grantswife :) Lots of us newbies here since you were here last as you can probably tell. Your not crazy, although we have completely relaxed with the TTC situation and in a good way are DTD to enjoy now rather than re-produce, so i guess it is diff for everyone. 
Do you mind me asking why you have to wait until 2015/2016? Hope I dont intrude, I am not familiar with your story. Lets hope it doesnt get to that and there is a miracle around the corner.
Hi Deb, how are you? My OH's next app is 22nd Aug - Surgeon Consultant and 26th Aug - Personal consultant. I've always been afraid of creating a journal as I think I'd be talking to myself and no-one would want to read me waffling. lol Maybe one day.
Hope the rest of you are ok :) I am doing ok, in limbo at the moment and plodding along as if its all a dream. Until the next appointment/rollercoaster.


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## WANBMUM

Woops sorry sar, i see you said you couldnt ask, is there anyone else you could ask? A Urologist from a diff area/town, quick phonecall would be worth it.


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## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> Deb--very much hoping that is the case!
> 
> I also had a question I forgot to ask when I posted earlier. Are there any supplements or vitamins DH should be taking to help make any sperm they do find healthier? I know it takes 2-3 months for any of these to take effect but we may have that amount of time between now and retrieval. We asked at the fertility clinic but they said that would be a question for the urologist who is now out of town for the next week and a half.

We checked with our urologist and he is perfectly happy that hubby is taking wellman conception and also omega 3, but I do know one of the girls dh's in this group (can't think who off the top of my head sorry) was told to stop taking any supplements so I think it really is best to wait until you can ask the urologist his opinion x


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## Deb111

Wanbmum - I'm doing ok thanks and will add your appts to the first page :thumbup:

As for starting a journal; I can assure you there would be plenty of people who will read it and support you xx


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## GrantsWife

Deb111 said:


> Grantswife - nice to see you back. It is so hard for all us with these waiting times that get imposed on us, but I can't imagine how hard it must be knowing you have such a wait ahead.
> 
> I don't think it's at all strange to just want a normal TTC cycle, but it does change the whole thing when you know there will be no chance of a :bfp:
> 
> It's hard for me to comment in some ways because we have only :sex: twice in the 18 months since hubby's azoo diagnosis - I think with hubby part of it is the mental side of knowing he cannot get me pregnant, but also his hormones, especially his testosterone, have been all over the place lately.
> 
> Do you have a journal hun? It's a great place to have a rant or just to get those thoughts out. I really do find that it helps to get the thoughts out of your head and onto 'paper'. It's also interesting to look back on and see how your journey has progressed.
> 
> I'm glad you found the video helpful xx

Thanks Deb111 for taking the time to write back. Yes, the wait is very hard. Unfortunately we weren't one of those that just discovered one day this may be the only route (not that that is good either) but we have known since the moment we started dating. Which was almost 3 years ago. Since he has CF you just kind of know, it isn't going to work out that way for you since all you ever hear is that "No they can't have kids". I was told often that it would never happen for us but finding out that it could happen was just such a relief. Still it is upsetting because I sometimes feel our chances of getting to TTC were taking away from us. We never even got to at least imagine that it would happen, we just knew all along it wouldn't. :nope:

I can't really speak on the front of :sex: because since we have known all along and we were young we never saw it as a disadvantage. We felt we were the lucky ones that could brag that we couldn't have mishaps but it just isn't that way anymore. I think now it is mostly me that doesn't ever feel up to as much and neither does hubby but that comes and goes with his health. And I know we are so young still but sometimes I just worry that his health will decline and the inevitable will happen before we even get that chance so sometimes I feel a bit of rush on life. If that makes sense?

No, I don't have a journal at the moment but was thinking about it. Sometimes I can open up too much online and then makes me feel weird so then I delete things. :shrug: Don't ask, lol. But maybe I should have one. I was reading some from here and it has definitely helped. It always nice not being alone. :hugs:


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## GrantsWife

WANBMUM said:


> Hi Grantswife :) Lots of us newbies here since you were here last as you can probably tell. Your not crazy, although we have completely relaxed with the TTC situation and in a good way are DTD to enjoy now rather than re-produce, so i guess it is diff for everyone.
> Do you mind me asking why you have to wait until 2015/2016? Hope I dont intrude, I am not familiar with your story. Lets hope it doesnt get to that and there is a miracle around the corner.

Hi WANBMUM, so nice to meet you. :flower: That must be a good thing to be able to enjoy DTD instead of feeling like a chore. Lately our libidos have been a bit down. I am thinking its because of my hormones (had low progesterone on last blood check) and hubbys health (he has Cystic Fibrosis). I go back for hormone checks again this next week. 

No, I don't mind you asking and you aren't intruding. Well to tell you the truth we don't really have a year in mind but hubby wants to wait until at least 4-5 years before this happens. We are still quite young (21) and still would like to go to school and buy a home before trying. Hopefully we can at least get most of that accomplished sooner than that though. Plus, I just finished immigrating to Canada and that took a year to pull through plus the year I was living here before that. I had to stay here the whole process without being allowed to work or study so I am a bit behind on that front. I really hope we get to try sooner but I guess we will know exactly when the time is right. 

I am trying to convince hubby to get a SA just so we can actually confirm azoo even though we know thats what it is but it would just be nice to have that confirmed or not. And I will be getting tested for the CF carrier test soon so one step at a time. Aww and thank you, I hope you have a little miracle around the corner too. :hugs:


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## Sar187

GrantsWife, Nice to meet you! 

I can definitely see your point in that there are advantages and disadvantages to knowing from the beginning that there will be problems conceiving. 

The only thing I would say is try not to put too much emphasis on making sure it is the right time because there will always be something that comes up that makes you feel it isn't the right time, no time is ever perfect in my opinion but we make due with what we have and we figure things out.

Good luck with your journey and it sounds like a great idea to get some tests done early I would just make sure you check on how long the results are good for I know some things like blood tests they will only consider the results if they are less than say 3 years old.


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## GrantsWife

Sar187 said:


> GrantsWife, Nice to meet you!
> 
> I can definitely see your point in that there are advantages and disadvantages to knowing from the beginning that there will be problems conceiving.
> 
> The only thing I would say is try not to put too much emphasis on making sure it is the right time because there will always be something that comes up that makes you feel it isn't the right time, no time is ever perfect in my opinion but we make due with what we have and we figure things out.
> 
> Good luck with your journey and it sounds like a great idea to get some tests done early I would just make sure you check on how long the results are good for I know some things like blood tests they will only consider the results if they are less than say 3 years old.

Nice to meet you Sar187! :hugs: I just want to say congrats on the great news you got. That is wonderful. Thank you for the advise. To me, it always feels like the right time but I will let hubby have his opportunity to feel more stable. I guess he wants to do the right thing and be the man of the house and knowing that he could provide for us. :winkwink: Thank you for the good luck wishes. I wish you lots of good luck at well. Yes, I am aware that some tests may expire but I think for say the CF carrier test, you might need it redone but you should have the same result as before, whether that be positive or negative, you know. But things like hormone levels, etc would need to be redone. Right now, I just want to discuss with a doctor about our options, learn some things, start preparing, etc. I am hoping that one day we have a :baby: of our own.


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## Bookworm

Hi Grantswife :hi: 
DH & I just had our bloods drawn today for CF screening and we're kind of expecting that to confirm CBAVD. There is a history of unexplained obstructive azoospermia on DH's side of the family, but the last case was about 10yrs ago and while the general CF screening was available at that time more recent research has shown some CF gene variants are relevant and they are also now tested - so 'unexplained' may be about to become explained. I know that won't solve the issue but I feel that an explanation might be comforting somehow, even if there is no 'cure'.

You're not alone in wanting to hide from the awful reality of azoospermia! The truth in this case is horrible. When we got our first SA result and with it the news that it should be confirmed by a second test we still continued to try in between, even though we knew about the family history of infertility and we knew in our hearts that we were infertile too. I bet just about everyone does this - and it's perfectly natural and probably a bit of a cushioning method allowing you to deal with the news properly and in stages.

For my part, with the possible similarities in our situations I would definitely be interested in hearing more about your story if you ever feel like starting a journal. And personally I've found the journal quite useful place to indulge a little, even if no-one does read it you can get out a lot of frustrations, anger, and the blind hope of that miracle! And if someone is reading, generally they are people in similar situations who know the helpful things to say, or not say for that matter (I find that of the few people who know about this in my life none of them really understand what it is like).

And I hope that miracle is on it's way to you right now!


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## tigerlily1975

That's brilliant news, Sar187!! 

C xx


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## Sar187

Well I got a call back from the fertility clinic today and no they will not freeze eggs. They freeze embryo and sperm but not eggs. My guess is due to the fact that egg freezing is a fairly new technology they don't do it yet. In that case our options for my eggs if they don't find sperm from DH are DS, disposing of the eggs, or donating them. 

But on that note All the doctors seem confident they will find sperm in DH so hopefully its not going to matter anyway!


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## silverbell

Sorry they won't freeze eggs, but it's great they sound so positive about your DH's chances.


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## Bookworm

Sar, it's a shame that new technology isnt more widely available sooner; im sure that was a bit frustrating. But it sounds as though the Drs are optimistic and hopefully it won't even be an issue for you - fx!!


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## WANBMUM

That is a pity Sar. But it is great to hear the docs are confident, that is a great sign, because in my experience they dont tend to give false hope.

How do you all feel about egg donation? As in, donating your eggs? It is something I have crossed my mind over, from researching alot on donor sperm and deciding that we will go down this route I often thought, would I be able to do it and my own personal conclusion was that it is something I definately would do in the future to be able to help couples in a similar situation (but the other way round) but I think only after we have had our own baby, I am not sure if I could handle it mentally, if we werent successful ourselves. Is that selfish though? I guess as we are having trouble TTC it is not like just deciding to donate in other circumstances, like donors across the world, but I suppose they each have their own story why they do it. 
Ok that is my thoughts for this evening, lol. Its off to bed I go. Sometimes I think too much :)


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## Sar187

Wanbmum, yes that is what helps is that they are so confident, it would have been nice to have that little fallback cushion but I am ok with not having it as well. At this point I'm not real comfortable with egg donation right now, while I would love to help other infertile couples, I think I would hate knowing that I could have children out there somewhere with some other guy. Maybe it is a little selfish on my part :). DH and I have discussed though that if everything goes well and we get several embryos, once we decide we are done having kids we would consider donating our unused embryos for another couple to do embryo adoption. I think all of the decisions that go along with these things are challenging.


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## MissAma

Sar187 said:


> the Dr. seemed annoyed with with us when we told him we did not want a DS backup on the day of egg/sperm retrieval

We had that twice. Once they were only annoyed but the second time they were downright pushy complete with a suggestion of taking a psychological evaluation in case we're in denial about or infertility. I had to firmly explain that one of my degrees is in Psychology, I am not that crazy, we just want to use IVF and ICSI to try for OUR genetic baby and if that is not doable then we can do tens of IUIs with DS after. It is nerve wrecking to gamble on the SSR being successful but if that's what you want then sticking to your guns can be rewarding.

I haven't written in forever ladies, apologies, I have been traveling like mad and when I only have 2-3 days a week home I tend to never do anything other than talk to ICSI pixie, coo and marvel how lucky we are.

Today I thought I had to share this: I have great news! In particular for you 21 year olds :) not us oldies... Look here, they made artificial sperm!!!

https://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201108050292.html


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## silverbell

MissAma, that's fabulous news! It just lightens my heart to think that in the future azoospermia couples will hopefully have more options and hope. Thank you for sharing.

WANBMUM - not long after we got our diagnosis, I told DH I wanted to do egg donation, whether we are successful with SSR or not. :thumbup: It's a very personal decision and not one to take lightly (just like deciding whether to use donor sperm or not), but I feel it's something I would like to do if my eggs are good enough. However, I did find out that a lot of places aren't interested if the lady is 30 or over :growlmad: This makes me very sad, but is something I will look into in the future after our SSR is over.

I did wonder how I would feel if there were children out there that were 'half me', but to be honest it makes me happy to think that I could help ladies who are in our position but with the opposite problem. Without people donating sperm and eggs, those with severe infertility would have far fewer options.


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## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Today I thought I had to share this: I have great news! In particular for you 21 year olds :) not us oldies... Look here, they made artificial sperm!!!
> 
> https://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201108050292.html

Thanks for sharing the article. It seems like it's still a long way off but WOW what a start!


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## Sar187

MissAma said:


> We had that twice. Once they were only annoyed but the second time they were downright pushy complete with a suggestion of taking a psychological evaluation in case we're in denial about or infertility. I had to firmly explain that one of my degrees is in Psychology, I am not that crazy, we just want to use IVF and ICSI to try for OUR genetic baby and if that is not doable then we can do tens of IUIs with DS after. It is nerve wrecking to gamble on the SSR being successful but if that's what you want then sticking to your guns can be rewarding.

That is our thing we want to try for our baby with IVF/ICSI. If we end up unsuccessful with that option, we will most likely be looking into adopting an embryo rather than using donor sperm. I can understand the view of the Dr. that they are putting all this time and effort into preparing you for a cycle just to have it be a "wasted" cycle if nothing is found, but hey they can't complain too much if they are still getting paid for the time and effort right :).


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## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

I hope you've all survived Monday :winkwink: Sorry I haven't posted sooner, I didn't really have any news and I've been trying to come to terms with it all.

On the (hopefully) plus side, we now have our first appointment with a specialist. We're going to Queen Charlotte's in west London. It's so daft how I picked it; firstly, my name is Charlotte and secondly, it's part of Imperial college, which is where my husband got his PhD. I'm hoping it's a good omen!! (I know you're all secretly doing this: :dohh:) :haha:

I just hope the appointment goes better than the actual booking. Between the NHS Choose and Book system and the hospital itself, they managed to book me into an appointment that I had cancelled, then they sent me an appointment letter three days after the re-booked (unwanted) appointment...!!! :dohh: I spent 30 minutes on the phone this morning being told that I'd been discharged for not attending the appointment - the one I cancelled and they rebooked. I almost gave-up then and there. :wacko:

Oh well, we're seeing the specialist this Wednesday (10th) and we're already worrying what's going to happen next. Any advice or questions/test we should ask/request? I'm hoping they'll also test me, as I'm 36 and I want to make sure that things are working normally. My one concern is my periods, they are so short now (sorry for TMI). I can't help thinking that maybe it isn't meant to be... 

It's interesting reading the various comments regarding DS. We've discussed it a little and my husband has said three times that we can and he wouldn't have a problem with it. It's actually me who's not so keen. Is it wrong to dream that I get to carry my husband's child? I want a little cherub with his cracking smile and sweet disposition. I know we've some way until we have to make those decisions, but you all know better than I do how this question rattles around your brain.

I will love you and leave you now and until next time, take care and big, BIG :hugs:

C xx


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## silverbell

Well done on getting that first appointment sorted, tiger. I don't think there's anything wrong with your choice of Queen Charlotte's at all. I think anything that feels right is a good sign and if you're happy with it and your reasons for choosing it then it'll be good for you :thumbup:

I hope all goes well on Wednesday. I think Deb posted a list of a few questions that were good to ask at a first appointment on the first page of this thread.

I got referred to a Gynaecologist for them to start checking me out prior to ICSI or IUI with donor sperm if it comes to it. I'm seeing them next month. No idea what they'll do (if they even will), what tests they'll do etc, sorry.

How can it be wrong to dream that you'd get to carry your husband's child? I think that's why all of us as ladies take the diagnosis as hard as our OH's. It's only natural and let's be honest when you enter a relationship and realise it's serious and you start to imagine your life, you always imagine a child that looks and acts like the 2 of you. 

However, saying that I do think that genetics only play a small part in how a child develops. I think perhaps genetics play a smaller part than we give them credit for, in fact. It's the way kids are brought up and loved that play the bigger part in my opinion. Plus you do get a lot of specifications to select when choosing a sperm donor. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have DH's biological child and I do think there are a lot of questions and feelings to take into account on this difficult issue. It's something I wish no couple ever had to discuss. :cry:

Best of luck for Wednesday.


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## Bookworm

Hi Tiggerlilly - I really think the DS issue is soooo personal. If couples find they need to consider their options then it can be great, but some just don't feel comfortable with it. It's a big decision so you should definitely let it rattle around for a while before ruling it in/out.

I agree with SB, genes have some importance but ultimately I reckon nurture has the edge on nature so whether it's genetically the produce of you & OH / DS / Adoption your family will be your family.

Oh - and I've noticed that just about everyone on this thread has had some kind of administrative nightmare!! I think it's like a rite of passage - they're testing us to see how much we really want this:dohh: Glad you got it sorted:thumbup:


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## Sar187

Tigerlily, Glad you've got your first appt. booked! Good luck with the specialist tomorrow! DS is a very personal decision, I think it is great that the option is there and it is definitely something to take the time to think about if it comes to that. Personally I know that if the problems were reversed and I was the one with the problem we would not choose to use donor eggs either. It is just not us. We both feel that if we can't have a baby that is biologically both of ours we would rather have one that is biologically neither of ours. I think silverbell is correct in that the biggest thing that makes a child yours and affects them the most is the way they are raised and brought up. 

On another note I thought you all might enjoy this video :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvZIAlK-PO0&feature=related


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## tigerlily1975

Oh, Sar. I loooooved the video and I'm not embarassed to say that I did tear-up!!

C xx


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## twilliamssbt

i wish to give all you ladies hope.

after 5 years not trying not preventing, then being told last month natural conception was not going to happen due to 2.7% progressive motility only, I found out today I am actually pregnant. Went to see Endocrinologist yesterday about the fertility treatment too, will be soooo pleased to tell them we don't need it after all 

https://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt146/twilliamssbt/eb17534d.jpg


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## KB38

Congratulations twilliams ssbt! What a fantastic surprise for you. 

I'm sorry I haven't been around much lately. I've been so incredibly frustrated by everything - work and home! I decided I needed some time out but I'm back now more determined than ever to get a result on the home front which is of course sorting DH out. I re-read those articles you emailed to me Silverbell and I've got a new resolve so I gave our GP a bit of a kick today. He's supposed to be finding an appropriately qualified specialist to refer DH too rather than all doctors who don't know what they're talking about that we have been going too but I think its in his too hard basket. I've now suggested a few names and I'm also thinking about emailing Dr Ramsay to see if he can recommend anyone in Australia. I'm not sure how that will go down but I figure nothing ventured, nothing gained.

As for work, I've been trying to stick it out so I get my maternity leave but as that's looking less and less likely to happen anytime soon, I've decided to look around a little bit. I'm not going to make any big decisions whilst I'm in this frame of mind but it'll give me some comfort to know where I sit.

I've also talked DH into planning a holiday with me. We can't really afford it as we've spent soooo much on medical appointments but I really need some headspace and our recent weekend away just wasn't enough!!! 

How are you all going???


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## Bookworm

Congrats twilliams - you must be over the moon!!! 

KB - I guess you've work issues too? Just wanted to send you a big :hugs: I've been there and it's horrible! I hope you get it all sorted:hugs:

Loooooved the video - Dumbo is one of my favourite childhood films so it really made me smile... Until the the early cut off (but much like real life then; you assume you know how it's going to go & then BAM!) - for those optimists out there who haven't seen the film she does get her little bundle in the end.


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## silverbell

Well, about 1.5 hours ago DH and I found out the reason for his azoospermia.

He does indeed have Klinefelter's Syndrome (sex chromosome disorder/mutation).

Funnily enough I'd said to him I thought it was this after Googling just a few days after we had the azoospermia results confirmed, as I thought he had some of the physical characteristics.

DH is strangely pleased. I think he's relieved to know the cause and that there really wasn't anything he could have done to stop it (I believe it's a fluke at conception, but need to do more research).

He is not a CF carrier and no y-microdeletion abnormalities. :thumbup:


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## twilliamssbt

i forgot to say in earlier post, incase anyone did not see oringinal post a few pages back, DH had total azoospermia in 2006 due to Acromegaly - a pituitary gland tumour.

He had a DNA taken on Monday this week to test for the gene for giantism, baby could be a pituitary giant, it can now be treated and prevented but will be DNA tested asap after birth. We are part of a study at St Barts in London into gene abnormalities for families with more than one case of a pituitary tumour. Baby will be monitored every 12 months for life for any type of tumour, which will be enough to prevent any serious implications.

Never ever give up, good luck to you all xx


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## Bookworm

silverbell said:


> Well, about 1.5 hours ago DH and I found out the reason for his azoospermia.
> 
> He does indeed have Klinefelter's Syndrome (sex chromosome disorder/mutation).
> 
> Funnily enough I'd said to him I thought it was this after Googling just a few days after we had the azoospermia results confirmed, as I thought he had some of the physical characteristics.
> 
> DH is strangely pleased. I think he's relieved to know the cause and that there really wasn't anything he could have done to stop it (I believe it's a fluke at conception, but need to do more research).
> 
> He is not a CF carrier and no y-microdeletion abnormalities. :thumbup:

:thumbup:glad you got a diagnosis - what does that mean for you guys going forward? I did look at Klinefelter's Syndrome round the time of our azoo diagnosis, but can't remember much of the detail:blush:


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## silverbell

Bookworm said:


> :thumbup:glad you got a diagnosis - what does that mean for you guys going forward? I did look at Klinefelter's Syndrome round the time of our azoo diagnosis, but can't remember much of the detail:blush:

From my limited research it doesn't seem to have any effect on the chances of finding sperm, which is a huge relief. I am checking this with Mr Ramsay by email, but I'm pretty sure this is the case.

Also, I believe there is no chance of 'inheriting' this condition - it is simply a genetic mutation/variation fluke at conception and not something that is inherited, which means we shouldn't have to worry about passing it on if they do find sperm.

Still lots and lots of research to be done by me, as I'd only read up about it fairly briefly prior to today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter's_syndrome


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## Sar187

twilliams, Congrats on the BFP, so happy for you! I hope everything goes well with the pregnancy!

KB, I'm with you on the work thing, I absolutely can't stand my job but i'm making decent money and If i switch would probably have to start making quite a bit less than I am now so am sticking it out for the moment. I hope your GP gives you the referral you are looking for this time!

Bookworm, The early cutoff threw me off a little too :).

Silverbell, Glad to see you got a diagnosis! Good luck!


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## Y B AVG

Hi All!
I wanted to come back to let you know what happened. The diagnosis is oligozoospermia (reduced spem count). Anything under 20 million is considered abnormal and DH had 17 million. DH was a little upset, but thanks to all the information you have shared, I was able to calm him. We are doing IUI next cycle[-o&lt;. Thanks for sharing your stories and I wish you all successful pregnancies and healthy babies! I will be checking in on you to see those BFPs and to report one of my own.

Big congrats twilliams.


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## silverbell

Congratulations to twilliams :thumbup:

Y B AVG - 17 million instead of 20 million is really not bad at all and a natural pregnancy is still very possible, so that's fantastic news. You'll have to tell your DH how jealous us ladies with azoospermic husbands are.

I do hope to hear about your BFP soon.


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## KB38

Y B AVG, you must be so relieved! Very happy for you!!! Can't wait to hear of your BFP soon.

Silverbell, I'm glad you got a diagnosis and happy to hear that DH is doing well. From what I've read, you're absolutely right about your chances of still finding sperm on biopsy (but I'm sure you're way way past that point with your research now  )!

Work has been pretty average for me but to be honest, I know I haven't been helping my own cause since DH's azoo diagnosis either.


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## Bookworm

KB38 said:


> Work has been pretty average for me but to be honest, I know I haven't been helping my own cause since DH's azoo diagnosis either.

I can sympathise with that! I just can't seem to focus at all atm! It's a nightmare. My thought's are constantly on counting how long before test results are back and contemplating whether I should contact Dr just to see if any are in:dohh: Work is suffering a bit I think...:wacko:


----------



## Deb111

Congratulations twillaims - that's fab news! :happydance:

Also great news YB :happydance:

Hope everyone else is doing well xx


----------



## wibble wobble

twilliamssbt said:


> i wish to give all you ladies hope.
> 
> after 5 years not trying not preventing, then being told last month natural conception was not going to happen due to 2.7% progressive motility only, I found out today I am actually pregnant. Went to see Endocrinologist yesterday about the fertility treatment too, will be soooo pleased to tell them we don't need it after all
> 
> https://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt146/twilliamssbt/eb17534d.jpg

congrats hope you have a happy and healthy 9 months (ish) It's really nice to hear stories of hope


----------



## Sar187

Hope everyone is doing well.

They have me starting a Birth Control Pill tomorrow then I go in Aug. 23. for a physical and a hysterosonogram. Hopefully I can get somewhat of a timeline from them at that point.


----------



## snd80

Hi all! Long time since I've been on this thread... Glad to see bunches of good news coming through!!!!

Well, after 3 months of torture with hubby refusing to go to the urilogist and everyone around me being pg. (I swear), I finally had a breakdown/meltdown on him about my issues of him being so selfish and inconsiderate about all this. And to my surprise, the next day he asked me to make him an appt. with the urilogist! :happydance: But his words were, "find me a good one that won't be touching on me" LMAO! 

I tell you though, my mood has totally changed since he decided this! I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off me and don't feel like slitting my throat everytime I see a baby/pg woman. I know that sounds horrible, but that is the point I had gotten to; a dark, careless depression... 

So, I was hoping some of you could tell me what we can expect on his first visit? Just blood work, exam, etc? I kinda don't wanna tell him incase he decides to change his mind, but still wanna know for myself... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Hugs to all!


----------



## Sar187

snd, glad your hubby is on board now, and glad you are feeling a bit better! For my DH's first urologist appt. him and I both went, the dr. talked to us about our medical histories and then did a quick physical exam on DH to make sure he had all of his tubes and everything. He also gave us an order to get bloodwork done at our local hospital to check hormone levels.


----------



## silverbell

Sar187 said:


> Hope everyone is doing well.
> 
> They have me starting a Birth Control Pill tomorrow then I go in Aug. 23. for a physical and a hysterosonogram. Hopefully I can get somewhat of a timeline from them at that point.

Glad things are moving for you :thumbup:


----------



## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Hi all! Long time since I've been on this thread... Glad to see bunches of good news coming through!!!!
> 
> Well, after 3 months of torture with hubby refusing to go to the urilogist and everyone around me being pg. (I swear), I finally had a breakdown/meltdown on him about my issues of him being so selfish and inconsiderate about all this. And to my surprise, the next day he asked me to make him an appt. with the urilogist! :happydance: But his words were, "find me a good one that won't be touching on me" LMAO!
> 
> I tell you though, my mood has totally changed since he decided this! I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off me and don't feel like slitting my throat everytime I see a baby/pg woman. I know that sounds horrible, but that is the point I had gotten to; a dark, careless depression...
> 
> So, I was hoping some of you could tell me what we can expect on his first visit? Just blood work, exam, etc? I kinda don't wanna tell him incase he decides to change his mind, but still wanna know for myself... any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Hugs to all!

Yay! Glad to hear this, snd. :hugs: I think everybody's different because a lot of people have done things in different orders before they see a Urologist.

For us by the time we'd seen the Urologist DH had had 2 sperm analyses with zero sperm found, his bloods done (hormones etc) and an ultrasound scan. The Urologist literally just had a quick 'feel' and then said that he'd put him on the list for a 'look around' (not sperm retrieval). We declined, as we had decided to be seen by an expert privately at this point and didn't want DH going through biopsies more than he needed to (especially as scar tissue can affect future biopsies).

I hope this helps and really pleased he has come round.


----------



## snd80

Thanks so much girls for the responses... it will be Sept. before we can make an appt. (hubby has soo many appts. these next few weeks with his kidney/dialysis troubles), so I am hoping for some great news around my b'day next month! 

I will keep you guys updated and just know that this thread has been the best thing since sliced bread! It has really helped me along this horrible journey... Thanks again for all the support, even if you didn't know you were supporting me! :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Great news snd! Must be such a relief for you. 

Well girls ... first appointment at The Lister clinic to start planning my side of things tomorrow. Terrified! but will be good to start getting somewhere :thumbup:

Hubby is having SA done tomorrow too so we will see if the tamoxifen has had any effect - might be a bit too early yet tho :shrug:


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## snd80

Thanks & Good luck Deb! Fingers x'd for you! :hugs:


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## mumanddad

Good luck for tomorrow? X


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## Y B AVG

Good luck with the upcoming appointments!


----------



## KB38

Good luck Deb!!!


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## Sar187

Good luck today Deb!


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

How are you all doing?

Sar187: Good luck for the 23rd, I hope it all goes smoothly for you :hugs:

snd80: That's great that your hubby is getting some help. It's so difficult seeing pregnant woman when you're out and about, but I really hope it'll all be our turn, soon :hugs:

Deb111: Good luck for tomorrow, I hope the tamoxifen has helped. :thumbup:

AFM: We had our appointment last week and some of you will find this interesting; guess whose name was on the clinic board for appointments that day? Mr Ramsay! Queen Charlotte's is linked with Hammersmith (I will be going there for my scans, actually), so that's why he was listed. Unfortunately, we're not able to see him through the NHS, as Hammersmith isn't in our catchment area. 

As for the appointment, lots of questions, nothing jumping out as to the cause - you all know the "have you had mumps/injuries in the area yada-yada" drill. I have to watch my weight.. boo! Husband is being sent for blood work (hormone and microbiology, not genetic) and a repeat SA. Depending on those, he'll then be off for scans. I'm down for more blood tests, a HSG and an ultrasound. We're back to see him on the 21st September... I'm going armed with holiday brochures in case the news is bad. 

I'm trying hard not to be pessimistic, but once you get bad news, it's hard to shake it off and get positive again. In the meantime, we're off to Madrid this weekend, so a bit of sun and some red wine will most certainly help!

Big :hugs: to all, 

C xx


----------



## silverbell

tigerlily1975 said:


> I'm trying hard not to be pessimistic, but once you get bad news, it's hard to shake it off and get positive again. In the meantime, we're off to Madrid this weekend, so a bit of sun and some red wine will most certainly help!
> 
> Big :hugs: to all,
> 
> C xx

Glad the appointment went well, tigerlily, and I know exactly what you mean about trying hard not to be pessimistic once you get bad news. To be fair we're all only human and being told what we've been told really shakes you to the core no matter how tough you are. :hugs:

Have a fabulous time in Madrid, you lucky lady! Enjoy it x


----------



## Deb111

Well ... update on our appointment at the fertility clinic on Wednesday

Still no :spermy: in SA, but hubby's only been on the tamoxifen just over 2 months and as we know, :spermy: take 3 months to fully develop so still early days.

My scan was ok - no cysts, womb lining all fine etc etc, just that they could only see 3 follicles on right ovary and 2 on left - so that's not great news with regards to my fertility, but still hopefully workable with but looks like I'll be on a higher dose of stims when we start

Waiting for my AMH test result from them and off to see Mr Ramsay (hubby's urologist) again tomorrow - think his meds may need adjusting / changing as his oestraiol is waaaaay too high and that will probably cancel out the raised testosterone. 

As soon as we get some dates from urologist with regards to when he wants to do hubby's microTESE, we can start working out some dates. I can start to fit in with him, on any CD1 from now on.

So ... another update coming up tomorrow xx


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi everyone

just thought I'd pop on and say hi, quietly counting down the days to hubby's tese on 40 sleeps now so not too far away.

hope everyone is doing ok, I'll be back to catch up when I can


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi Guys, 
Hi wibble wobble, i hope your time flies :) 40 sleeps is nothing!
Hi Deb, yes it is early days for your OH. That is a bit disappointing about your own fertility I'm sure. What do they plan to do for you?
Ive been offline for a few weeks as I have been trying to not dwell on TTC, which I haven't until now as My OH finally has his app on monday with the surgeons consultant, so I will keep you all posted. I think this is the first test we havent been worried/nervous about, probably because we know now and our fate is out of our hands I guess. Although realistically he is the one who will decide if my OH can be operated on. Fingers crossed it is good positive news. 
Hope you are all ok :)


----------



## Deb111

Copied from my journal ...

Well Mr Ramsay was his usual charming, reassuring self today :thumbup:

Didn't really talk about my side of things in terms of follicles apart from to tell him we don't have time to 'hang around' He didn't seem alarmed by it, but I guess at the end of the day he is a urologist, so although he knows a fair bit about the whole IVF process, he wouldn't know statistics etc for me

Anyway, he is really pleased at Terry's testosterone result and extremely pleased that the FSH has been driven higher.

The oestradol, he isn't too concerned about. He has added arimadex to his tamoxifen which will bring his oestradiol down pretty quickly, but he says it doesn't put us back 3 months as it is the FSH that will have driven sperm production and the oestradiol wont have affected that, it will just be stopping them from being 'all singing, all dancing sperm' which doesn't matter too much as they don't need to be good swimmers etc for ICSI.

Apparently arimadex is quite expensive, but he's told us to go to superdrug as they're cheapest - bless him.

Still nothing in SA, but we would have been highly surprised to find any so soon after Wednesday's negative result. If microTESE has to go ahead, recovery time will be about 10 days, but he says he will have plenty of local anasthetic to get him home comfortably and will also get tramadol for pain relief 

So, drum roll .......
We're looking at microTESE / EC in October most likely as long as we can fit round his few days holiday. This will be good for me as I can hopefully get EC done in half term and have a few days to recover. So once I've got a clinic sorted out for scans / bloods - which will hopefully be Monday, I can email Dr Nicopollous and hopefully start BCP at the beginning of my September cycle!!!!!


----------



## jennyc2412

Hi everyone, not sure if you remember me but i joined this post back in May after my hubby had the PESA/TESA and they found nothing. Was totally devastated at the time, and I'm sorry for not thanking you all for your kind words and encouragement. It really did help to know there are other people feeling exactly the same!
So, we decided to use a donor, its been really hard to get my around it all and accept it, but they found a match within about 4 weeks! So we're booked in for an info session about IUI and IVF.. does anyone have any experience of IUI? We get 2 gos of IUI on the NHS and 1 IVF, so we're going to give the IUI a try. 
But.. we booked a holiday with our best friends last Sunday, 10 days in the sun to have a break from all the upset and thinking about babies. And then on Saturday just gone, they told us that they are pregnant! So now I have 10 days of having it shoved in my face. I'm so upset with them for not telling us before we booked it and don't want to go anymore. Am i being unresonable??
Hope you are all ok

snd80 - I bought the 'helping the stork' book that you recommended, thanks! I would recommend it if anyone else is considering SD..
xxx


----------



## silverbell

WANBMUM - I hope all has gone well today :hugs:

wibble - not long now! :dance:

jennyc - you would have been on here before my DH got diagnosed so I missed you that time around. I'm glad you've both decided on sperm donor and fab news that they found a match so quickly and you're all set for IUI. :thumbup:

I don't think I'd particularly want to go on holiday either, knowing what they'll be talking about and if you don't talk about it then it'll look bad and if you do then it'll upset you ... what a difficult situation. I take it they knew before you guys booked then? Also, I'm assuming they're aware of your situation? Really tough situation. Sending you lots of :hugs:


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## luckdragon

hi there guys just to let you know me and my dh have decided to also go ahead with ivf using a donnor  we have to done one more semen sample in september just to double check and then were going ahead with treatment. hope it works, as we have to pay for it!! eeek hope everyone else is ok xxxxx


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## mumanddad

Good luck ladies xx


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## Pink Lolly

jennyc2412 said:


> Hi everyone, not sure if you remember me but i joined this post back in May after my hubby had the PESA/TESA and they found nothing. Was totally devastated at the time, and I'm sorry for not thanking you all for your kind words and encouragement. It really did help to know there are other people feeling exactly the same!
> So, we decided to use a donor, its been really hard to get my around it all and accept it, but they found a match within about 4 weeks! So we're booked in for an info session about IUI and IVF.. does anyone have any experience of IUI? We get 2 gos of IUI on the NHS and 1 IVF, so we're going to give the IUI a try.
> But.. we booked a holiday with our best friends last Sunday, 10 days in the sun to have a break from all the upset and thinking about babies. And then on Saturday just gone, they told us that they are pregnant! So now I have 10 days of having it shoved in my face. I'm so upset with them for not telling us before we booked it and don't want to go anymore. Am i being unresonable??
> Hope you are all ok
> 
> snd80 - I bought the 'helping the stork' book that you recommended, thanks! I would recommend it if anyone else is considering SD..
> xxx

Hi Jenny

We are in exactly the same boat -my DH has a Pesa/Tese on 5th August and they found just very i8mmature sperm that we can't use - they said DH basiclaly produces sperm but production halts at a certain point.

We have also decided to use a donor -we will get 4 goes at IUI and 1 IVF on NHS.

Keep in touch x


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## dodoting

Nice to see you


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## silverbell

Great news, luckdragon (I remember you saying a month or so ago that your DH was adamant he wouldn't do this, so I am pleased he's changed his mind), and I hope to hear very happy news soon :dust:


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## WANBMUM

Nothing really new to report after my OH's app yesterday. His consultant wants someone else to look at his file before they decide what happens next. 
He has another app this friday with his original consultant and should be getting the results of his last test (he has had so many tests now I am losing track)

I am really down today, ive been so upbeat for the last while, but my cousin announced today she is pregnant and I think it has knocked me for six :( I feel like such a failure and inadequate. I hate that my poor husband has to go through this. Why cant we just be able to conceive normally, why do we have to go through this? sorry for the negativity but I cant help it :(
Ok I think i will go to bed, tomorrow is a new day.


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> I am really down today, ive been so upbeat for the last while, but my cousin announced today she is pregnant and I think it has knocked me for six :( I feel like such a failure and inadequate. I hate that my poor husband has to go through this. Why cant we just be able to conceive normally, why do we have to go through this? sorry for the negativity but I cant help it :(
> Ok I think i will go to bed, tomorrow is a new day.

This is completely understandable and we've all been there and we've all asked those questions. It all seems so very unfair. 

But we will all get there in the end, in our own way. :hugs:


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## Sar187

Deb- glad your appointment went well, and that it seems like things are moving along for you!

Jenny-I joined after you were on here last, but congrats on finding a donor! I'm with you on how you feel about the Holiday, it would be hard.

Luckdragon- glad you were able to reach a decision on the DS hope everything goes well!

Wanbmum- Sorry your appointment doesn't really seem to have moved you any further along :(. I think we all have those down days where we feel like nothing is going right. Especially when we hear how easy it is for some other people. Hope things start looking up for you soon :).

I had my Hysterosonogram yesterday and everything looked good. All measurements were good and the woman doing it said that everything looked perfect. She even said the IVF coordinator would be very happy because usually they find something when they do this. The next IVF cycle at our clinic is in October so our ER will be sometime between october 3rd and october 21st. They try and do them on mondays and fridays. The IVF coordinator is going to talk to the urologists office to see when they are available to do the MESA/TESE and plan ER accordingly. For right now we are just waiting for her to hear from them and she will call us to schedule IVF orientation. Until then continuing to take bcp and prenatals.


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## silverbell

Sar187 said:


> I had my Hysterosonogram yesterday and everything looked good. All measurements were good and the woman doing it said that everything looked perfect. She even said the IVF coordinator would be very happy because usually they find something when they do this. The next IVF cycle at our clinic is in October so our ER will be sometime between october 3rd and october 21st. They try and do them on mondays and fridays. The IVF coordinator is going to talk to the urologists office to see when they are available to do the MESA/TESE and plan ER accordingly. For right now we are just waiting for her to hear from them and she will call us to schedule IVF orientation. Until then continuing to take bcp and prenatals.

Wow, that's great news! October will soon be here :happydance:


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## MoBaby

Hi! SO I am going to join this thread. .. Here is my story:
Me and DH married 10 years. Me 29, Him 31. On BC/IUD the whole marriage, IUD removed Feb 2011. Excited that cycles returned to normal right away, 28 day cycle, ovulate day 14/15. Good to go! We were a little concerned when we started b/c DH had some issues as a child (hernia, torsion, testicular injury) but we decided after 3 months if nothing, then get the SA... Well, 3 months came and I was not ready to deal with an abnormal SA so we tried 3 more months. And nothing. So SA done and shows very rare sperm, some motile, some non-motile, no forward progression. So we started our journey to finding an answer :( This all started around the beginning of August... We went to RE who had good hopes if we can get sperm. He sent us to the best reproductive urologist in our city for evaluation. This was yesterday. He called the results azoospermia (even though there were a few). DH had exam and doctor told him he has soft and slightly small testes and wanted to run some labs to see if there is a hormonal or genetic issue since he feels it is a congential abnormality totally unrelated to the incidents. Either way, the doc said he would need microTESE. He also said based on his exam and his patient population, there is a 65% chance of finding usable sperm. Great. To me thats like 50/50. We have to do the labs first which take 4 weeks to come back and then schedule to surgery. If they find anything they freeze them and then when my eggs are ready they go ahead with the egg retrevial and fertilization with ICSI. But we can't start that process until they are sure they have some sperms. I am having my blood work and saline uterine ultrasound in the next week or so (waiting for AF). We also found out that insurance wont cover much of anything (except MY diagnostic workup, but since I have a deductible, its basically nothing!) and DH workup is $9000... So we are looking at a lot of money out of pocket. I am not ready to adopt nor will I use a donor sperm. I know a lot of women on here have success, but it just freaks me out and I can not bring myself to injecting another man's stuff in me. So, thats where we stand. FXd for everyone on here for good news soon. I am sooooo anxious and worried that we are not going to be able to have children together. I am sure he feels terrible also. Who knows. Maybe we will have a little miracle BFP (it could happen!) :) DH having repeat SA on Monday so hopefully its a little better...


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## lbm2009

Welcome mobaby I'm new in here too, dh is 28 I'm 27, ttc 3.5 years, hubby diagnosed with azoo earlier this year. Not getting very far as Nhs in England will not treat us until I have lost weight. :(. Although we have decided if they cannot harvest any sperm from him we will have donor sperm. It was a big decision but once my husband realised it would be his name on the birth certificate , and the fact he will have chance to bond with the child while it's growing inside we both relaxed about the idea. I agree it will be strange and in an ideal world they will harvest millions of healthy sperm from my hubby. But in reality we cannot face 
A life without children. I feel like our life has come to a stand still because we are still awaiting the baby we started trying for all those years ago. 
Im waiting for a miracle at the moment. 
One thing I keep on thinking about is the doctors think my husbands problems may be caused by surgery from a undecended testicle operation. If there is damage to the tubes can this be repaired? Has anyone else had this repaired. I'm clutching at straws but if they fix the problem we may not need ivf???


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## silverbell

Welcome to the thread, MoBaby, though I'm sorry you've had to join us. I hope your outcome is a happy one :hugs:

Welcome too to lbm :hugs: I'm afraid I don't know if they can repair damaged tubes. Hopefully somebody here will have experience of this. I know what you mean about hoping for a miracle. 

:dust: to everybody x


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## Deb111

Welcome MoBaby and Ibm - I'm sure you will find loads of info and support here - we are all at different stages in the journey

Ibm - I don't know specifically about your issue, but we were told that if it turns out to be obstructive azoospermia (OA) (which it would be if there was damage to the tubes stopping the sperm getting through) they are unlikely to try to repair it as it is very difficult to do and not particularly successful.

What it could mean though, is that if it is OA and they find a normal supply during surgery, you would most likely be candidates for IUI

Has hubby had blood test results back yet, the FSH level is a good indication of whether it is obstructive azoo or not


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Mobaby and Ibm,

Welcome to the thread but also so sorry you've had to join us. 

As Deb said there are lots of us on here, all at different stages of our journeys.

My DH has just had his SSR, but unfortunately they found no sperm so we are now going ahead with Donor IUI. I won't bore you with the details but here is a link to my journal below if you want to have a read.

My heart goes out to you both, it is the most awful situation to find yourselves in. 

Sending you both lots of love :hugs:


----------



## MoBaby

What is ssr? Sorry I couldn't find it!


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## Deb111

MoBaby said:


> What is ssr? Sorry I couldn't find it!

SSR = Surgical Sperm Retrieval - there are different ways of retrieving them


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## lbm2009

Hi, his bloods all came back fine, So it's is pointing to an obstruction. Have any of your dh 's had a ultrasound to see if it is a obstruction. We haven't been offer anything else other than fertility treatment once have lost weight. 
One other question is do any of your dh's get a swelling above their testicles? My hubby gets this alot and itcan be painful for him Also sorry to go into details but his semen can be very yellow.


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## Sar187

Welcome Mobaby and Ibm, though I'm sorry you are having to join. 

ibm, My DH's azoospermia is believed to be due to an obstruction caused by inguinal hernia/hydrocele surgeries he had as a child(he had 2 the left side at 5 months and the right at 4 years). 

We have not had an ultrasound done, we did ask about it but the urologist is about 95% confident that an obstruction is the problem so doesn't feel we need to do it. He gave us a 79-85% chance of retrieving sperm.

We asked our urologist about repairing the obstruction and he said that in cases of azoospermia a repair surgery would have less than a 5% chance of working to the point where you don't have to do IVF, so therefore is basically a waste of money. We were also told that even If they find a very high number of sperm during retrieval we are still looking at IVF/ICSI and not IUI. This is due to the fact that the sperm they retrieve have not usually progressed far enough in their lifecycle to learn to "swim" yet therefore they need the help of ICSI to fertilize the egg.

As to the swelling and yellow semen, I have no experience with that. Good luck to you!


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## MoBaby

My dh has yellow semen.. the urologist didn't say anything but if its yellow on mondays I will ask abouut it.


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## MoBaby

DH SA today was the normal color. No yellow at all.


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## Sar187

Just thought I would give you all an update. I got a call from the clinic yesterday and they have talked to the urologists office. They are aiming for a retrieval date of October 3rd. We go in for IVF orientation and a mock transfer Next Tuesday September 6th. I start Injections around the 11th of September. It all seems to be moving so fast now!


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## silverbell

Oh, wow, Sar! That's excellent news :happydance: It's great it's moving so fast now. I will be keeping everything crossed for you and can't wait to follow your journey x


----------



## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> Just thought I would give you all an update. I got a call from the clinic yesterday and they have talked to the urologists office. They are aiming for a retrieval date of October 3rd. We go in for IVF orientation and a mock transfer Next Tuesday September 6th. I start Injections around the 11th of September. It all seems to be moving so fast now!

Looks like you'll be a week or 2 ahead of me :thumbup:


----------



## Sar187

Thats great Deb! Hopefully the cycle goes well for both of us!


----------



## silverbell

Just a little update, but it's made me a very, very happy lady.

Today we found out that DH's appointment to see Mr Ramsay on the NHS is on 28 September. :happydance: We had thought it would more than likely be November/December due to a delay with a GP referral to him.

We're over the moon.

Nothing new will happen at this appointment, but it's to get him in the NHS system and on that day he will be put on the waiting list for the mTESE, so it's a massive step forwards to finding out once and for all where we stand with regards to DH's sperm.

I'm on :cloud9:


----------



## Deb111

Fantastic news SB!!! So with it being the 1st September today, we can oficially say you're seeing Mr Ramsay THIS month :happydance:


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## Deb111

Off to pick up my IVF meds this morning :happydance:


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## silverbell

Oh, Deb, it's so exciting! :dance:

Yes, I can say we'll be seeing Mr R this month. I can't get over it - very chuffed :flower:


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## Sar187

Thats great silverbell! Glad you don't have to wait nearly as long as you thought you would. 

I bet your excited to get all your meds deb! Will probably be that final step realizing this is actually moving for you!


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## Deb111

So I've got 40 vials of the menopaur for injections - waiting on another 20 to come in

Got the delightful cyclogest pessaries! :wacko:

Got the nasal sprays for DR

Waiting for the ovitrelle to come in tomorrow

Got to get some antiseptic wipes tomorrow when I go to Asda and will get needles etc from MFS on Monday

All ICSI forms filled in and sent off today

So it's pretty much all systems go when CD1 comes!

To be honest, whilst I'm excited about it all; it still feels very unreal - maybe it will be more real once I've got the needles and had the training xx


----------



## wibble wobble

hey everyone 

I'm lurking but as I have nothing new to report I'm staying quiet. Just wanted to send everyone a big (((((hug)))))


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## MoBaby

Hi! So my update..... we secured funding (all out of pocket) and I have bloods tomorrow and hydrosonograpgy and trial transfer on wednesday. Dh repeat sa results monday and he will have bloodwork and genetic testing. Assuming nothing to bad, will schedule the mtese (6-8 2 weeks) and hopefully I can start meds in november. Fx for no genetic issues and swimmers in tese (there were rare ones in last sa).... seems like its coming together now.


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## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> To be honest, whilst I'm excited about it all; it still feels very unreal - maybe it will be more real once I've got the needles and had the training xx

Wow, Deb! I can't believe it's nearly here after you've waited to so long. Your side of things seems to have really gone at full steam recently. I think it will seem more real once you've had the training too. So excited and hopeful for you.



wibble wobble said:


> hey everyone
> 
> I'm lurking but as I have nothing new to report I'm staying quiet. Just wanted to send everyone a big (((((hug)))))

Sending you massive hugs too, WW :hugs: Not long to go now - this month :happydance:



MoBaby said:


> Hi! So my update..... we secured funding (all out of pocket) and I have bloods tomorrow and hydrosonograpgy and trial transfer on wednesday. Dh repear saresults monday and he will have bloodwork and genetic testing. Assuming nothing to bad, will schedule the mtese (6-8 2 weeks) and hopefully I can start meds in november. Fx for no genetic issues and swimmers in tese (there were rare ones in last sa).... seems like its coming together now.

MoBaby - sounds like all systems go and it's definitely coming together for you. I hope all goes well on Monday and that's awesome about November - so soon now!


----------



## KB38

Hi everyone, I'm so happy to hear/read everyone so positive at the moment! 

I had to giggle when I saw your post Deb111. I never thought I'd see the day I knew someone who was so delighted about all of those needles and medication BUT if I were you I would be too!!!

I'm really no further advanced at the moment. We have no other appointments planned and I'm really not sure which way to turn next. I've been trying to forget about it all and get the other aspects of my life back on track but it is still all consuming me. Sigh... It is father's day here this weekend so I've decided to go home (about 2 hours away) and see my Dad and it's my first wedding anniversary the weekend after and I've planned a secret trip away with DH so really I have plenty to be excited about.


----------



## silverbell

KB38 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm so happy to hear/read everyone so positive at the moment!
> 
> I had to giggle when I saw your post Deb111. I never thought I'd see the day I knew someone who was so delighted about all of those needles and medication BUT if I were you I would be too!!!
> 
> I'm really no further advanced at the moment. We have no other appointments planned and I'm really not sure which way to turn next. I've been trying to forget about it all and get the other aspects of my life back on track but it is still all consuming me. Sigh... It is father's day here this weekend so I've decided to go home (about 2 hours away) and see my Dad and it's my first wedding anniversary the weekend after and I've planned a secret trip away with DH so really I have plenty to be excited about.

KB, a secret trip for your first anniversary sounds wonderful! :wedding:

I'm sorry you're no further forward at the moment. Have you both had a discussion about whether to try for mTESE or whether to see a specialist to discuss whether this is likely to give you good results, after the results of the last op? I suppose if you've been trying to forget it then you won't have discussed this further yet. Have you had the counselling yet or not? If so, I hope this has helped. Sending you lots of :hugs:


----------



## kellymarie86

Hello ladies i've been floating in and out of here having a read of all yes all the posts. 
Here's my story......

After 4yrs of trying. We both decided to go docs and had tests done mine came back that im fine. Other half not good news.
Okay so im feeling very lost and confussed waiting for OH to see specialist doc.
We got the news from doc after seamen test was done. Not 1 sperm alive! None dead just none? 

Okay so now have an appointment with the male infertility service at university collage hospital for 13th Oct 2011. 

But since having the seamen results back we have been investigating ourselves searching the internet ect.
TMI COMING UP. Well had a feel of other halfs balls myself he's tube thing that carries the sperm on he's left ball is enlarged. We did see a doc about this a while ago doc said this shouldnt caulse a problem as he still has another ball. Im starting to wonder if he just fobbed us off as this was said before the seamen sample......

So we experimented more.....TMI With going by what i read on google I had my other half with he's legs up high and done a sperm test myself . He done it and it was a hell of alot whiter then the test that we sent off. 

Has anyone else tried this or got the swallon tube?
That's all i can say for now.


----------



## MoBaby

So good results today. My antral follicle count was 17 (7 right 10 left) and everything else looked good (I do have 2 fibroids, but they are not interferring with anything)... I gave blood and have my saline ultrasound on Wednesday. DH getting his blood. Then we will put 2 and 2 together and I will start my meds! Yippie :)


----------



## silverbell

kellymarie86 said:


> Hello ladies i've been floating in and out of here having a read of all yes all the posts.
> Here's my story......
> 
> After 4yrs of trying. We both decided to go docs and had tests done mine came back that im fine. Other half not good news.
> Okay so im feeling very lost and confussed waiting for OH to see specialist doc.
> We got the news from doc after seamen test was done. Not 1 sperm alive! None dead just none?
> 
> Okay so now have an appointment with the male infertility service at university collage hospital for 13th Oct 2011.
> 
> But since having the seamen results back we have been investigating ourselves searching the internet ect.
> TMI COMING UP. Well had a feel of other halfs balls myself he's tube thing that carries the sperm on he's left ball is enlarged. We did see a doc about this a while ago doc said this shouldnt caulse a problem as he still has another ball. Im starting to wonder if he just fobbed us off as this was said before the seamen sample......
> 
> So we experimented more.....TMI With going by what i read on google I had my other half with he's legs up high and done a sperm test myself . He done it and it was a hell of alot whiter then the test that we sent off.
> 
> Has anyone else tried this or got the swallon tube?
> That's all i can say for now.

Hi there. Sorry you've had to come here. We've all been there though and this is a really great place to ask questions and seek support.

My DH doesn't have the swollen tube as such, but he did have what felt like 2 testicles on one side (so a total of 3!) It turns out that this extra lump is in fact an epidydimal cyst and is harmless and wouldn't cause problems with sperm flow. It's very common for men to have these apparently and usually nothing to worry about. I'm not sure if this is what your OH has, but hopefully the specialist can tell you more next month.

As for colour of semen - I have seen a few things about this and to be honest it doesn't seem to matter at all. It seems that change in colour, quantity and consistency can vary from time to time and this is normal.

I hope this helps and good luck with your appointment. I am keeping my fingers crossed for a happy outcome for you both.



MoBaby said:


> So good results today. My antral follicle count was 17 (7 right 10 left) and everything else looked good (I do have 2 fibroids, but they are not interferring with anything)... I gave blood and have my saline ultrasound on Wednesday. DH getting his blood. Then we will put 2 and 2 together and I will start my meds! Yippie :)

Great news, Mo! Not long now :happydance:


----------



## mumanddad

kellymarie86 said:


> Hello ladies i've been floating in and out of here having a read of all yes all the posts.
> Here's my story......
> 
> After 4yrs of trying. We both decided to go docs and had tests done mine came back that im fine. Other half not good news.
> Okay so im feeling very lost and confussed waiting for OH to see specialist doc.
> We got the news from doc after seamen test was done. Not 1 sperm alive! None dead just none?
> 
> Okay so now have an appointment with the male infertility service at university collage hospital for 13th Oct 2011.
> 
> But since having the seamen results back we have been investigating ourselves searching the internet ect.
> TMI COMING UP. Well had a feel of other halfs balls myself he's tube thing that carries the sperm on he's left ball is enlarged. We did see a doc about this a while ago doc said this shouldnt caulse a problem as he still has another ball. Im starting to wonder if he just fobbed us off as this was said before the seamen sample......
> 
> So we experimented more.....TMI With going by what i read on google I had my other half with he's legs up high and done a sperm test myself . He done it and it was a hell of alot whiter then the test that we sent off.
> 
> Has anyone else tried this or got the swallon tube?
> That's all i can say for now.

Hello sorry you have had to join the group but everyone here is so supportive.

My oh had no sperm in his last 6 tests and has a vargus (sp) vien in his tube so i kind of understand your upset.

We thankfully got a naturally bfp after we applied for adoption.

I really hope you get your bfp soon x


----------



## wibble wobble

kellymarie86 said:


> Hello ladies i've been floating in and out of here having a read of all yes all the posts.
> Here's my story......
> 
> After 4yrs of trying. We both decided to go docs and had tests done mine came back that im fine. Other half not good news.
> Okay so im feeling very lost and confussed waiting for OH to see specialist doc.
> We got the news from doc after seamen test was done. Not 1 sperm alive! None dead just none?
> 
> Okay so now have an appointment with the male infertility service at university collage hospital for 13th Oct 2011.
> 
> But since having the seamen results back we have been investigating ourselves searching the internet ect.
> TMI COMING UP. Well had a feel of other halfs balls myself he's tube thing that carries the sperm on he's left ball is enlarged. We did see a doc about this a while ago doc said this shouldnt caulse a problem as he still has another ball. Im starting to wonder if he just fobbed us off as this was said before the seamen sample......
> 
> So we experimented more.....TMI With going by what i read on google I had my other half with he's legs up high and done a sperm test myself . He done it and it was a hell of alot whiter then the test that we sent off.
> 
> Has anyone else tried this or got the swallon tube?
> That's all i can say for now.

my hubby was told when he was joining the forces that he had a swollen testicle tube (this was over 12 years ago) he was told it was nothing to worry about and quite common. When he got dx as having non obstructive azoospermia, the urologist never mentioned the swollen tube even tho it is still the same now. His fsh was raised slighty so that points to NOA. I haven't tried the sperm test and don't really know anything about it what is the whole keeping the legs up high about? Hope the time flies by quickly until your appointment with the specialist


----------



## MoBaby

Dh semen analysis came back instead of a few to 600,000 per drop! I know that is still severe male factor infertility but to go from nothing to that many is awesome for us! We are waiting for labs still so I am wondering what the urologist will want to do next. :)


----------



## Deb111

Welcome Kelly :thumbup:

Fab news Mobaby - what has happened to improve things so much? xx


----------



## silverbell

Wow, Mobaby! :happydance:

I agree, I'm intrigued. I wish, wish, wish that would happen for my DH. It would make things so much easier and at least there would be that 'possibility'. I'm very jealous :haha:


----------



## MoBaby

Idk why... he started on an organic multivitamin which I assume helps....I hope the urologist tells us we can just freeze a few samples and use them instead of having a mtese :)


----------



## silverbell

Well something has worked for sure! I'm sure they will allow that, Mobaby. :thumbup:


----------



## MoBaby

So DH spoke to urologists..... He has agreed that with the new numbers we can do a few samples frozen and use them for the IVF!! He said the counts seem to flucutate between none and 600,000 per drop of semen. He has to get genetic testing first to make sure everything is okay. If so it looks like I can start meds in late October instead of November!! I pray this all goes well. Obviously this makes me nervous that what is the frozen samples do not have any in them? I am sure the doc will go over all this with us. 

Does anyone know why it would be reported in number per drop versus per mL?


----------



## kellymarie86

my hubby was told when he was joining the forces that he had a swollen testicle tube (this was over 12 years ago) he was told it was nothing to worry about and quite common. When he got dx as having non obstructive azoospermia, the urologist never mentioned the swollen tube even tho it is still the same now. His fsh was raised slighty so that points to NOA. I haven't tried the sperm test and don't really know anything about it what is the whole keeping the legs up high about? Hope the time flies by quickly until your appointment with the specialist[/QUOTE]

Sorry taken so long to reply. Right now i got to try and explain this. Cos the blood flow travels down the body i read somewhere that if a man was to raise hes bottom and tmi squirt cos the blood flood is flowing in other direction the vain wont be blocking the tube.


----------



## Sar187

Welcome Kelly Sorry you are having to join us. 

Mobaby that is great news!

We had mock transfer and orientation yesterday. The mock transfer went well other than them keeping me waiting an extra half an hour with a full bladder. We went over all the injections and everything and I got my initial calendar. I start Lupron on the 11th, stop BCP on the 14th and go for a baseline ultrasound the 16th. After that they will tell me when I will be starting the next drug which will either be follistim or gonal-f. Its starting to hit now that this is actually happening.


----------



## MoBaby

I had my hydrosonography and trial transfer today. Everything went well. I had some cramping with the hydro catheter but other than that I was fine. All my tests have been good with no red flags (my 2 fibroid friends are not an issue :) ) . So I am finished testing next step for me is the meds and will start those when we get the thumbs up from the urologist... should be around the end of october hopefully. Doc asked me how many embryos to transfer today and I told him 2 which is scary but I think we want to do that..... we will see when it gets closer! :)


----------



## Zipp

kellymarie86 i could have written that myself. My DH & I have been trying for about the same length of time. His sample had no sperm in it either.


----------



## Deb111

So :witch: is here tonight so birth control pill starts tomorrow and I have to ring in to the clinic. Seems like quite a few of us will be cycling at the same time :thumbup: xx


----------



## silverbell

Great news for Sar, Mo and Deb! Keeping everything crossed for all of you :hugs:


----------



## desperate4567

I am 25 yr old and my husband and I have been trying to get prenant for 14 months now. My tests came back ok. But he was diagnosis with azoospermia. We have seen urologist and all tests and labs have come back ok. They were baffled and sent us to a fertility specialist that we see for the first time on Sep 30. So nervous and worried. I never knew that there was a forum to talk to other people dealing with this issue. To top it off I work on and ob floor of a hospital.


----------



## silverbell

desperate4567 said:


> I am 25 yr old and my husband and I have been trying to get prenant for 14 months now. My tests came back ok. But he was diagnosis with azoospermia. We have seen urologist and all tests and labs have come back ok. They were baffled and sent us to a fertility specialist that we see for the first time on Sep 30. So nervous and worried. I never knew that there was a forum to talk to other people dealing with this issue. To top it off I work on and ob floor of a hospital.

I'm so sorry, desperate :hugs: You've found a safe haven to talk about it here. We're all going through it too.

At your first appointment you will find out much more and what will happen next and just knowing what the next steps may help you both.


----------



## silverbell

OK ladies, just after a bit of knowledge from those of you who've seen Gynaecologists.

I'm due to be seen by Gynae this Thursday after getting referred a few months back following DH's diagnosis. Reason being is that I wanted to ensure that I was functioning OK etc prior to ICSI and IVF (if we're incredibly lucky) or IUI with donor sperm.

I just wondered if any of you knew what sort of things might be discussed or tested for on Thursday? On the letter it does say it's likely a doctor will perform a clinical vaginal exam +/- vaginal ultrasound scan and other investigations. But this looks like a standard letter, so I'm not sure it applies.

Not panicking - just wondering what they might or might not be doing and what I should ask them perhaps. I obviously just want to ensure I'm working fine before going ahead with IUI or IVF and this is to get the ball rolling a bit.

I also don't know if it's my GP or this Gynae that will refer to a Fertility Centre?


----------



## Pamplemousse

Hello Ladies,

I have been a member of Band B for a few months now, but it seems that I now find myself joining this group after receving new from FS.

Yesterday my husband and I were told that he had Azoospermia. We genuinly thought that we would be told low sperm count and were devasted to hear the news. 

A few months back I had a false BFP, which I assumed was chemical pregnancy, so now it appears it was just another cruel trick played on us.

Our next step is to discover whether this is genetic (in which case we are advised that we will not be able to have biological babies of uur own) or whether there is a blockage which would mean the chance of IVF/ICCS. The next step is a blood test for O.H.

I would love to hear from Ladies in a similar situation and also some postive stories of happy endings.

I know that this group is full of women who can really relate to the heartbreak that I have right now! Looking forward to sharing out experiences and hopefuly celebrating happy endings!!


----------



## Deb111

Welcome Pamplemousse and Desperate :hugs: There is a wealth of info on this thread so ask away and we will do our best to help :flower:

SB - have you had blood tests yet? If not, they will order blood tests for somewhere between day 1 and day 5 of your cycle. They will also want day 21 progesterone blood test. Also see if they will do an AMH test whilst you're there. Going by my experience, I imagine you will have an internal vaginal scan (aka dildocam!) - if so, ask them if they are able to tell you how many follicles you have. If you end up having IUI, they will want to do some other tests to check your tubes etc - can't remember the names, but not really any point going ahead with those until if you know about hubby's microTESE results as it doesn't matter what your tubes are like if you're having IVF / ICSI xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

silverbell said:


> OK ladies, just after a bit of knowledge from those of you who've seen Gynaecologists.
> 
> I'm due to be seen by Gynae this Thursday after getting referred a few months back following DH's diagnosis. Reason being is that I wanted to ensure that I was functioning OK etc prior to ICSI and IVF (if we're incredibly lucky) or IUI with donor sperm.
> 
> I just wondered if any of you knew what sort of things might be discussed or tested for on Thursday? On the letter it does say it's likely a doctor will perform a clinical vaginal exam +/- vaginal ultrasound scan and other investigations. But this looks like a standard letter, so I'm not sure it applies.
> 
> Not panicking - just wondering what they might or might not be doing and what I should ask them perhaps. I obviously just want to ensure I'm working fine before going ahead with IUI or IVF and this is to get the ball rolling a bit.
> 
> I also don't know if it's my GP or this Gynae that will refer to a Fertility Centre?

Hey Silverbell :hi:

The consultant at Hammersmith booked me in for tests; I had the vaginal ultrasound last week (to check the lining etc) - not painful, but a little odd! And today I had the HSG (check that my tubes were clear), which (thankfully) was not as painful as I feared. It's like a smear test, uncomfortable more than anything, but do take a couple of nurofen an hour before, I think it really helped. 

Good luck with the tests and let us know how you get on. 

:hi: to everyone else, I really need to catch-up on the thread, looks like a lot of ladies are moving along, that's so good to hear! Hello to the new lasses, too, you've come to the right place, lots of warmth, support and advice here :flower:

As for us, we've had all our tests and next Wednesday (21st) we're back to see the Consultant. Depending on husband's results, I guess we'll have some idea of what the next step is... keeping everything crossed that there is one.

Look after yourselves!

C xx


----------



## Pamplemousse

desperate4567 said:


> I am 25 yr old and my husband and I have been trying to get prenant for 14 months now. My tests came back ok. But he was diagnosis with azoospermia. We have seen urologist and all tests and labs have come back ok. They were baffled and sent us to a fertility specialist that we see for the first time on Sep 30. So nervous and worried. I never knew that there was a forum to talk to other people dealing with this issue. To top it off I work on and ob floor of a hospital.

Hi Desperate, you and I are in the same boat.

the only thing i can say about your appointment is not to worry if you can't take everything all in. Take a note book, and afterwards jot down some things you want to ask and then call them back. It is so hard to digest information when you dealing with raw emotions at the same time!!

It seems I am about a month ahead of you in the testing sagas, hope I can help you with some answers!!


----------



## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> SB - have you had blood tests yet? If not, they will order blood tests for somewhere between day 1 and day 5 of your cycle. They will also want day 21 progesterone blood test. Also see if they will do an AMH test whilst you're there. Going by my experience, I imagine you will have an internal vaginal scan (aka dildocam!) - if so, ask them if they are able to tell you how many follicles you have. If you end up having IUI, they will want to do some other tests to check your tubes etc - can't remember the names, but not really any point going ahead with those until if you know about hubby's microTESE results as it doesn't matter what your tubes are like if you're having IVF / ICSI xx

Thanks, Deb! I've had Day 21 blood test, but it kind of got messed up due to falling at a weekend and a Bank Holiday :dohh: The result was OK, but didn't look quite right, though when the GP found out I got my AF 2 days after the test the GP seemed happy with the results. I guess they'll want to repeat it. I've not had the Day 1 to 5 test yet. It'll be good if they do want that, as I should get AF on Saturday.

Thanks for your help :hugs:



tigerlily1975 said:


> Hey Silverbell :hi:
> 
> The consultant at Hammersmith booked me in for tests; I had the vaginal ultrasound last week (to check the lining etc) - not painful, but a little odd! And today I had the HSG (check that my tubes were clear), which (thankfully) was not as painful as I feared. It's like a smear test, uncomfortable more than anything, but do take a couple of nurofen an hour before, I think it really helped.
> 
> Good luck with the tests and let us know how you get on.

Thank you, tigerlily :hugs:

That's really helpful.


----------



## silverbell

Pamplemousse said:


> Hello Ladies,
> 
> I have been a member of Band B for a few months now, but it seems that I now find myself joining this group after receving new from FS.
> 
> Yesterday my husband and I were told that he had Azoospermia. We genuinly thought that we would be told low sperm count and were devasted to hear the news.
> 
> A few months back I had a false BFP, which I assumed was chemical pregnancy, so now it appears it was just another cruel trick played on us.
> 
> Our next step is to discover whether this is genetic (in which case we are advised that we will not be able to have biological babies of uur own) or whether there is a blockage which would mean the chance of IVF/ICCS. The next step is a blood test for O.H.
> 
> I would love to hear from Ladies in a similar situation and also some postive stories of happy endings.
> 
> I know that this group is full of women who can really relate to the heartbreak that I have right now! Looking forward to sharing out experiences and hopefuly celebrating happy endings!!

Hi there Pample :hugs: Sorry you find yourself here, but welcome.

I don't think that anybody can be prepared for finding out there is literally no sperm in the SA. You may wonder if it's going to show low count, but nobody ever expects or even wants to think that there might be 0. Thinking of you at what I know will be a very difficult time for you both :hugs:

I just wanted to comment on something you said, as I'm not sure if you realise. If there is a genetic problem with your DH, that doesn't mean that you can't have biological children together. My DH has a genetic problem (Klinefelter's), but if sperm are found on biopsy then we can still go ahead with ICSI and IVF. Only they are likely to do some genetic testing on the sperm prior to the ICSI to ensure the condition won't be passed on. There are other genetic problems that aren't passed on as well, so don't dismiss everything until you know for sure. Also, even if there isn't a blockage there are still successes with men having sperm found on biopsy and ICSI/IVF - there are lots of examples in this thread of very happy endings in this regard with non-obstructive azoospermia.

Hope this helps and good luck to you both on your journey. x


----------



## KB38

silverbell said:


> OK ladies, just after a bit of knowledge from those of you who've seen Gynaecologists.
> 
> I'm due to be seen by Gynae this Thursday after getting referred a few months back following DH's diagnosis. Reason being is that I wanted to ensure that I was functioning OK etc prior to ICSI and IVF (if we're incredibly lucky) or IUI with donor sperm.
> 
> I just wondered if any of you knew what sort of things might be discussed or tested for on Thursday? On the letter it does say it's likely a doctor will perform a clinical vaginal exam +/- vaginal ultrasound scan and other investigations. But this looks like a standard letter, so I'm not sure it applies.
> 
> Not panicking - just wondering what they might or might not be doing and what I should ask them perhaps. I obviously just want to ensure I'm working fine before going ahead with IUI or IVF and this is to get the ball rolling a bit.
> 
> I also don't know if it's my GP or this Gynae that will refer to a Fertility Centre?

It might be a little bit different here but my GP referred me to a Fertility Centre who in turn referred me to one of their O&Gs for my "work up" which consisted of lots and lots of bloods, a transvagnial ultrasound (ick) and clinical examination (ick ick).


----------



## silverbell

KB38 said:


> It might be a little bit different here but my GP referred me to a Fertility Centre who in turn referred me to one of their O&Gs for my "work up" which consisted of lots and lots of bloods, a transvagnial ultrasound (ick) and clinical examination (ick ick).

That's great, KB, thank you! I feel I know what to expect now so thanks everybody for all your help :hugs:


----------



## Pamplemousse

silverbell said:


> Pamplemousse said:
> 
> 
> Hello Ladies,
> 
> I have been a member of Band B for a few months now, but it seems that I now find myself joining this group after receving new from FS.
> 
> Yesterday my husband and I were told that he had Azoospermia. We genuinly thought that we would be told low sperm count and were devasted to hear the news.
> 
> A few months back I had a false BFP, which I assumed was chemical pregnancy, so now it appears it was just another cruel trick played on us.
> 
> Our next step is to discover whether this is genetic (in which case we are advised that we will not be able to have biological babies of uur own) or whether there is a blockage which would mean the chance of IVF/ICCS. The next step is a blood test for O.H.
> 
> I would love to hear from Ladies in a similar situation and also some postive stories of happy endings.
> 
> I know that this group is full of women who can really relate to the heartbreak that I have right now! Looking forward to sharing out experiences and hopefuly celebrating happy endings!!
> 
> Hi there Pample :hugs: Sorry you find yourself here, but welcome.
> 
> I don't think that anybody can be prepared for finding out there is literally no sperm in the SA. You may wonder if it's going to show low count, but nobody ever expects or even wants to think that there might be 0. Thinking of you at what I know will be a very difficult time for you both :hugs:
> 
> I just wanted to comment on something you said, as I'm not sure if you realise. If there is a genetic problem with your DH, that doesn't mean that you can't have biological children together. My DH has a genetic problem (Klinefelter's), but if sperm are found on biopsy then we can still go ahead with ICSI and IVF. Only they are likely to do some genetic testing on the sperm prior to the ICSI to ensure the condition won't be passed on. There are other genetic problems that aren't passed on as well, so don't dismiss everything until you know for sure. Also, even if there isn't a blockage there are still successes with men having sperm found on biopsy and ICSI/IVF - there are lots of examples in this thread of very happy endings in this regard with non-obstructive azoospermia.
> 
> Hope this helps and good luck to you both on your journey. xClick to expand...

Thank you so much for message. It really has helped me feel that all is not lost.
How is eveything going for you?!


----------



## silverbell

Pamplemousse said:


> Thank you so much for message. It really has helped me feel that all is not lost.
> How is eveything going for you?!

I'm very glad :hugs:

I had my gynae appt this week. Had vaginal exam, swabs and dildo-cam :haha:. I have an unusually tiny cervical opening. Right ovary perfect. Left ovary couldn't be visualised due to lots of bubbles covering area. No cysts or tumours. HSG dye scan referral made - could be couple of months wait. Having day 2 to 4 bloods done (tomorrow) and day 19 bloods done (day 21 is too late for me with my shorter 26-day cycles).

Just waiting for DH's appointment with Mr Ramsay now in 1.5 weeks when he'll get put on the list for the mTESE :happydance: The sooner he gets that, the better. It'll be nice to know for sure exactly where we stand instead of just guessing all the time.


----------



## Deb111

Wow - I can't believe that your appt with Mr R has come round so soon :happydance: and not long til centre parcs either :happydance::happydance:

I wouldn't worry too much about them not being able to see your left ovary - don't know anything about the bubbles, but they couldn't see mine on my NHS scan either - but it was definitely there - well the private scan at The Lister found it anyway :thumbup:


----------



## Pamplemousse

silverbell said:


> Pamplemousse said:
> 
> 
> Thank you so much for message. It really has helped me feel that all is not lost.
> How is eveything going for you?!
> 
> I'm very glad :hugs:
> 
> I had my gynae appt this week. Had vaginal exam, swabs and dildo-cam :haha:. I have an unusually tiny cervical opening. Right ovary perfect. Left ovary couldn't be visualised due to lots of bubbles covering area. No cysts or tumours. HSG dye scan referral made - could be couple of months wait. Having day 2 to 4 bloods done (tomorrow) and day 19 bloods done (day 21 is too late for me with my shorter 26-day cycles).
> 
> Just waiting for DH's appointment with Mr Ramsay now in 1.5 weeks when he'll get put on the list for the mTESE :happydance: The sooner he gets that, the better. It'll be nice to know for sure exactly where we stand instead of just guessing all the time.Click to expand...


Ooh, good luck to you!! I keep hearing about Dr Ramsay, he seems to be the Man!

I know what you mean about waiting for results, once you have answers (no matter how awful they are) you feel as if you can keep moving forward.

Can I ask what the TESE involves? My DH is due to have a blood test on Tuesday, the results will hopefully shed some light on what is causing the problem. Fingers crossed it will be good news for all of us!!


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi everyone I'm still lurking, I'm keeping up with all your posts and journeys but mine is still at a stand still until the 28th at least when hubby has his tese. Good luck for your appointment on the same day silverbell.
me and hubby had a heart to heart about our situation a few days ago. He's trying not to get his hopes up on them finding sperm as it's a 40% chance (I actually think this is quite high) He's already talking about sperm donor, he says he has no problem with raising a child that has no biological link to him... he just wants me to be happy and is prepared to do anything it takes to make it happen :)


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## Sar187

Hi everyone! Welcome to desperate and pamplemousse, sorry you ladies are having to join us but this is a great board and very supportive!

Lupron has been going well for me I haven't had any side effects at all from it aside from some headaches which I'm not even sure can be blamed on the lupron. My Baseline ultrasound went well, they said everything looked great. I finished BCP's on the 14th and start Stims(gonal-f) tomorrow. So as of tomorrow I will be on Lupron and gonal-f which will be 3 injections a day. Retrieval for both Hubby and I is officially scheduled for October 3rd as of right now. Hopefully everything goes as planned and that date doesn't change!


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## silverbell

Pamplemousse said:


> Can I ask what the TESE involves? My DH is due to have a blood test on Tuesday, the results will hopefully shed some light on what is causing the problem. Fingers crossed it will be good news for all of us!!

It's the microTESE that DH is having, which I believe is only performed in the UK by Mr R. It's a very advanced biopsy of the testicles under strong microscopes to try to find sperm. 

Hope the blood test has went well today and that you get the results soon.



wibble wobble said:


> Hi everyone I'm still lurking, I'm keeping up with all your posts and journeys but mine is still at a stand still until the 28th at least when hubby has his tese. Good luck for your appointment on the same day silverbell.
> me and hubby had a heart to heart about our situation a few days ago. He's trying not to get his hopes up on them finding sperm as it's a 40% chance (I actually think this is quite high) He's already talking about sperm donor, he says he has no problem with raising a child that has no biological link to him... he just wants me to be happy and is prepared to do anything it takes to make it happen :)

That's great news, ww. I am pleased to hear there is a back-up plan in place should things not be great news following the TESE on 28th (though I am praying that they find lots of lovely, healthy sperm for you both). I was worried about what my DH would think of donor sperm initially, but he was all for it and says that he would much rather the child was biologically one of ours rather than neither of ours. He said he loved me so much he would have no problem loving a child that had half my DNA :cloud9:



Sar187 said:


> Hi everyone! Welcome to desperate and pamplemousse, sorry you ladies are having to join us but this is a great board and very supportive!
> 
> Lupron has been going well for me I haven't had any side effects at all from it aside from some headaches which I'm not even sure can be blamed on the lupron. My Baseline ultrasound went well, they said everything looked great. I finished BCP's on the 14th and start Stims(gonal-f) tomorrow. So as of tomorrow I will be on Lupron and gonal-f which will be 3 injections a day. Retrieval for both Hubby and I is officially scheduled for October 3rd as of right now. Hopefully everything goes as planned and that date doesn't change!

Glad all is going well, Sar. It's all very close now! I'll be on holiday that week, but I hope to hear how it went upon my return. I am keeping everything crossed for you both.


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## snd80

Hi girls! Looks like lots of good news floating around! :thumbup:

Today is our first appt w/ the urilogist... I think I am more nervous than hubby is! I have made my little list of things to ask about. I only have 3 on it, so hope I don't forget anything else! lol! I don't know if I am prepared to hear any bad news either... Please say a little prayer for us today! I feel like we *really* need it!!!!!!! :hugs: to all!


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## silverbell

Good luck, snd! I shall be thinking of you and thinking very positive, happy thoughts. Let us know how you get on :hugs:


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## Sar187

Good Luck snd, I hope everything goes well will be thinking of you!


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## Pamplemousse

It seems there is some progress with us all over the next month or so. Good Luck Ladies.

DH had his blood test today. Hopefully results back in 5 weeks time. I like to think that given no sperm was found on last two samples we are due SOME good news!!!


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## snd80

Ok, here is our update!!!

So, the dr. was super nice and down to earth... didn't talk to us in "dr. terms" and look at us crazy when we didn't understand like most do. 

He walked in and introduced himself and asked how many children we wanted b/c he was gonna make it happen. Loved the positivity! Hubby told him he wanted to do whatever it took to make this happen for us (a complete 180 from 4 months ago when he refused to go to the dr. and have his junk "touched on"!!! I was very stoked to hear hubby say that!) Then he talked to hubby about his medical condition w/ his kidney and dialysis situation, asked about his sex drive (or lack there of), took him the next room for a quick exam and came back. He said that hubby had one testical a little smaller than the other, but it was no biggie and that everything looked and felt good down there. So it could be one of two things, and this is how he explained it to us (gotta love this)... the brain is the "boss" and the testicals are the "factory". Either the "boss" isn't telling the "factory" to make the sperm, or the "boss" is telling them to and the "factory" isn't doing their job. So basically he thinks it is testosterone/hormones. He wrote up the papers for blood work and said it takes about 2 weeks for the results to come back, and that he would call us as soon as he got them in. We went straight to the hospital from there and had the blood work done, and now it is a waiting game. 

I thought it sounded very promising! I could be just too hopeful, but even hubby thought it sounded good! I am on cloud nine! To think that it just might be that simple! What do you girls think?! All imputs welcomed! :flower:


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## Deb111

Lovely to see lots of positives in your post snd :thumbup: It's great news that hubby is on board and that you have found a specilaist who you have a good rapport with and who is very positive about your situation. It is great when you feel like you are in safe hands - you can then at least breathe a small sigh of relief xx


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## MoBaby

SOOOOO.... DH had his hormone levels checked. Everything good except testosterone was slightly low. We are waiting on genetic tests and have an appt to discuss on Oct 17th. Would slightly low testosterone cause azo?? Hopefully genetic tests are all okay then we are set to start at end of October!! :)


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## silverbell

From what I understand, low testosterone is a symptom of azoo and not a cause. 

Oh and there are certain genetic results that if positive don't preclude your DH from having success at biopsy. My hubby has a genetic disorder but many are still found to be making sperm at biopsy.


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## Sar187

SND-Glad to see you seeming so positive after your appointment. So glad your hubby is on board now. I hope things continue to go well!

Mobaby- I hope everything comes out ok for you. I don't know much about low testosterone so can't really help you there. 

AFM-Started stims yesterday going pretty well so far other than that the shots on my belly have started to cause bruising when I do them. Going to try my thigh tonight to see if thats any better. 

Hope everyone else is doing well!


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## Pamplemousse

wibble wobble said:


> Hi everyone I'm still lurking, I'm keeping up with all your posts and journeys but mine is still at a stand still until the 28th at least when hubby has his tese. Good luck for your appointment on the same day silverbell.
> me and hubby had a heart to heart about our situation a few days ago. He's trying not to get his hopes up on them finding sperm as it's a 40% chance (I actually think this is quite high) He's already talking about sperm donor, he says he has no problem with raising a child that has no biological link to him... he just wants me to be happy and is prepared to do anything it takes to make it happen :)

Good luck with the tese. I really hope it brings positive results for you both:hugs:


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## wifeyw

Hi wibble wobble good lucky with your TESE and i hope your DP isn't too nervous. Mines worked himself up and couldn't get over how easy he recovered after. thinking of you's good luck xx


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## Bookworm

Pamplemousse said:


> Hello Ladies,
> 
> 
> Our next step is to discover whether this is genetic (in which case we are advised that we will not be able to have biological babies of uur own) or whether there is a blockage which would mean the chance of IVF/ICCS. The next step is a blood test for O.H.

Hi Pamplemousse, Desperate & KellyMarie, really sorry that you find yourselves here, but hopefully you'll find a few answers, advice & support to help you through - the ladies here really know their stuff & always know the right thing to say (and what not to, which can be just as important).

Pamplemousse I know that Silverbell has already answered you on this but I just want to reassure again that very often genetic causes of azoospermia do not eliminate the possibility of having your own biological children. I've just copied this over from my journal;

Anyway,results in, & it's pretty much as expected: DH is a CF carrier & I'm not (which is great news from ICSI point of view:thumbup:). The slightly more unsettling news is that in addition to the CF mutation (which should be a ressive gene) on one gene, DH also carries a 'variation' on the other which 'supercharges' the CF mutation & can cause CF symptoms (though not full blown CF).

So basically DH, due to carrying a CF gene, is missing the tube that should deliver the sperm from the testis to the rest of the seman for 'delivery'. This is great news for us at this point as it was the last hurdle before beginning ICSI, & now we're just waiting on an appointment with the fs to talk about scheduling!

Btw, I've not been on the site much recently, sorry - been finding the whole thing a bit overwhelming and my coping mechanism is to bury my head in work.... but with the results in I'm feeling a lot more positive:happydance: 
I've been loving reading upon the posts though - I've everything crossed for all you guys cycling or just about to!


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Bookworm,

Thanks so much for your post. Two weeks ago I felt that there was no hope, but all the posts make me feel so much more positive.

I hope everything goes well for you. We are waiting on DH blood tests results. Have been told another 4 weeks. Hopefully we can get an appointment pretty soon after that. so... onwards and upwards


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## silverbell

Wishing the lovely wibble wobble absolutely bundles of luck, strength and support for tomorrow when her hubby has his TESE.

I am wishing ever so hard for a very positive outcome for you both :hugs:

:dust:


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## MissAma

Hello ladies! Lots of positive outlooks in this thread! Good, that will get all those good sperm vibes going. O...kay, not attractive mental imagery there :)

Our brief update: we have a pre-screening call from the IVF clinic tonight and also today he is getting his Prolactin and Testosterone checked again in a desperate last ditch attempt to get hope without having his jewels cut open again :) Will keep you posted and keep reading your updates!


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## Pamplemousse

Good luck for tomorrow Wibble Wobble!!


MissAma, just read some of your journals. Your story gives me so much hope!! And Dara is beautiful!!!


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## MissAma

Thank you very much, you're very kind! I'm glad my story helps, Dara even helps give me hope now that I'm on the ICSI road again. We can get this no-sperm beaten, girls!


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## Deb111

Will be thinking of you and dh wibble wobble - keeping everything crossed for you :thumbup:

Sar - glad it's all going well with the stims.

SB - so excited your appt is here - good luck tomorrow - I know it's just a formality but hope you get a realistic picture of timescales involved 

AFM, I start sniffing thursday morning and have my injection training and mock transfer Thurs am too :happydance:

Hope everyone else is doing ok xx


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Deb111,

I see you start sniffing tomorrow. Good luck with it all!! I realy hope this is the start of your happy ending!

We have another 3-4 weeks of waiting for DH blood tests results. Hopefully our FS appointment will not be too long after the results come.

We are seriously thinking of buying our first house next year, but worried about investing so much money in a house. My concern is that we may need/want to go private for some stuff and buying a house may mean a little less in the rainy day jar! Aghhhh.. what to do!


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## silverbell

I have been thinking of wibble wobble and her hubby all day. I hope it's good news. 

As for me, saw Mr R today. DH listed for mTESE and will likely be done in January. 

Unfortunately we have a very low chance of success. We have a 5% chance of getting useable sperm at biopsy :cry:


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## Deb111

Sorry to hear that SB - what has he based that on? The K. syndrome? 5% is still 5% though and I have everything crossed for you

Thanks pamplemousse - hope your results come through asap xx


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Silverbell!

Good luck for January. Keep positive!! I echo what Deb111 says, do you know what the 5% is based on?

In the mean time I too will have everything crossed for you.


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## silverbell

Yes it's purely based on the Klinefelter's Syndrome. 

Thanks both :hugs: 

Have been thinking of wibble today and hoping she and her husband are ok.


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## KB38

Hi everyone, just been trawling back through everyone's posts. I didn't realise how long it'd been since I'd been on here! 

I've been having such a hard time lately, I really thought that by now (three months after DH's diagnosis) I'd be coming to terms with it a bit better than I am. It just doesn't seem to get any better  

Glad to see everyone's positive news. I'm sorry to hear about your appointment Silverbell, definitely not the news you were hoping for :-(


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## silverbell

KB38 said:


> I've been having such a hard time lately, I really thought that by now (three months after DH's diagnosis) I'd be coming to terms with it a bit better than I am. It just doesn't seem to get any better

I'm so sorry, KB. I'm 2 days away from 4 months since diagnosis and I am still a bit 'all over the place' at times. I found counselling helped me a great deal and made me look at how I was coping and what exactly it was that was making me feel like I was going to fall apart. Is this something you might consider? I was a bit skeptical at first, but I'm so glad I went. It honestly really helped me and I only needed 2 sessions to start making sense of all my emotions.

I read that an azoo diagnosis or any diagnosis of severe infertility causes emotions that almost exactly match those after the death of a loved one. You are going through a strong mix of grief and loss and everything you're feeling is entirely normal. I wish I could tell you how long it will last and I honestly thought I'd be much better about things right now, but it just doesn't appear to work that way, at least not for all of us.

Sending you huge bucketloads of :hug:


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## Pamplemousse

KB38 and Silverbell: I am 2 and bit weeks from diagnosis. On the whole I think I am coping, but then I get the odd day where I just want to cry. I have done the 'why me, why us', I have done angry and I have done despair.

I have had immense support from my mum who really helped. You see my older brother has Down's Syndrome, not diagnosed pre-birth. My mum explained that she went through a mourning period for the 'healthy' child she never had and told me that I had every right to mourn the fact that I will probably only conceive a child once many more hoops have been lept through. The fact that some one told me it was ok to grieve helped so much.

I think what I am trying to say is that we are all going through loss and mourning process and it may be a few steps forwards and then a few steps back. 

We all need to be extra gentle on our selves. I hope this helps in some way. One way or anothe we will get there, just maybe in a different way to how we imagined!

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> I have been thinking of wibble wobble and her hubby all day. I hope it's good news.
> 
> As for me, saw Mr R today. DH listed for mTESE and will likely be done in January.
> 
> Unfortunately we have a very low chance of success. We have a 5% chance of getting useable sperm at biopsy :cry:

5% is sometimes all you need keep positive :hugs:


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## silverbell

Pamplemousse said:


> KB38 and Silverbell: I am 2 and bit weeks from diagnosis. On the whole I think I am coping, but then I get the odd day where I just want to cry. I have done the 'why me, why us', I have done angry and I have done despair.
> 
> I have had immense support from my mum who really helped. You see my older brother has Down's Syndrome, not diagnosed pre-birth. My mum explained that she went through a mourning period for the 'healthy' child she never had and told me that I had every right to mourn the fact that I will probably only conceive a child once many more hoops have been lept through. The fact that some one told me it was ok to grieve helped so much.
> 
> I think what I am trying to say is that we are all going through loss and mourning process and it may be a few steps forwards and then a few steps back.
> 
> We all need to be extra gentle on our selves. I hope this helps in some way. One way or anothe we will get there, just maybe in a different way to how we imagined!
> 
> :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Great post :thumbup: Thanks for this and for making me feel less daft. It's such a difficult time and sometimes I think 'there are far worse things that could have happened', but at other times I feel like my world is falling apart and I should just give up :nope: It's nice to know we're not all alone in this.

Thanks WW. I can't believe you've got to wait until Monday for your results. I hope the weekend zooms by for you both and that you get a great result come Monday.


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## Deb111

So, I survived 

Had the mock transfer and coped. He put on his report "no problems. patient tolerated procedure well." He's faxed the nurses at the Lister to tell them exactly which type of speculum and catheter he used. Didn't even feel the catheter going in - don't know if that's normal or not? Yes, the procedure was uncomfortable and when they clean the cervix it's a horrible sensation, but he didn't have to stop at all and I can't see that it took any longer than it would have for anyone. I'm very chuffed. Went in on my own and had a lovely nurse (not the one I'd expected) holding my hand and she was amazed how well I did too.

Then we had injection training - all seems ok - just got to double check the amount of liquid the Lister want me to mix with the 5 powders. Got my sharps box and needles and did an 'empty' injection. Once I'd plucked up the courage to just stick it in, I was fine. I guess I was just worried about how hard to do it etc.

Done my 2 lots of sniffing today - no problems so far. No headaches (not sure if it's early days ). Keep thinking I'm having hot flushes and then realise - no!! It's just bloomin' hot!!!!


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## Bookworm

Deb111 said:


> Done my 2 lots of sniffing today - no problems so far. No headaches (not sure if it's early days ). Keep thinking I'm having hot flushes and then realise - no!! It's just bloomin' hot!!!!

:haha: that made me giggle! Delighted to hear it went well!! 

Good to hear some good news too, like KB & Silverbell I have to admit that even months on from the initial diagnosis I still have very bad days. I do feel very angry at times. TTC is meant to be this wonderful, exciting tme, but for us it's very painful, scary, humiliating and invasive at times - now, I do understand that it will all be worth it in the end and I would never give up, but I don't feel that I'll ever reach a point where I'll be truely ok with all of this.... 
Please don't take this the wrong way girls - it's not that I want you to feel bad, but it is a bit of a relief to know that sometimes you do - I've not even been able to come near this site for more than a month because I was feeling so down about it all.... Sometimes it seems that everyone else copes so well and manages to stay so positive, i thought it was just me dwelling too much. Much better now though.

But like SB said we will all get there, it's just a slightly longer road, and it will make the reward at the end all the sweeter.


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## Deb111

Bookworm - you are very definitely NOT alone in how you are feeling. I've made no secret of the fact that I will never be 'ok' with what we're having to go through, although of course it will be worth it :baby:

Have you seen my video journal (link on page 1 of this thread) - it will def make you realise you're not alone with how you feel xx


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## Deb111

Pamplemousse - don't be too hard on yourself. 2 and a half weeks from diagnosis is no time at all :hugs:


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Bookworm, 

You have taken the words right out of my mouth!! It is a rather pants situation to say the very least! And lets face it UNFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one of us should feel bad about having down days!

Deb111: Well done with day one!


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## silverbell

Bookworm said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way girls - it's not that I want you to feel bad, but it is a bit of a relief to know that sometimes you do - I've not even been able to come near this site for more than a month because I was feeling so down about it all.... Sometimes it seems that everyone else copes so well and manages to stay so positive, i thought it was just me dwelling too much. Much better now though.
> 
> But like SB said we will all get there, it's just a slightly longer road, and it will make the reward at the end all the sweeter.

You're most definitely NOT alone. I don't think any one of us on this thread is 'OK' with what we've had to go through or what we're going through. It's an absolutely devastating thing to deal with and whatever the result it still doesn't take away the fact that it was never easy and was an incredibly emotionally upsetting time.

Sending you lots of :hugs:


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## wibble wobble

Hi all

I thought I was doing ok on the azoo diagnosis front, shed a few tears the day the gp gave us the sa results,but then after that nothing.... well until after we got home from hubby having his TESE the other day. Think I realised then that everything that can be done now has it's like it's the end of chapter 1 looming and we're powerless to change the outcome. I just hope we did enough with lifestyle changes to make a difference to what could be in those samples they took.

Deb111 hope the injections go well


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## silverbell

Wibble, that's exactly how I feel. The TESE really is the end of a massive chapter and I know that I'm going to feel the same. I've already said to DH that it'll be nice for him to know that's it and he won't be bothered or messed with again after that. It'll all be down to me.

I also feel very powerless and I don't like that feeling, as I quite like being in some sort of control. 

DH takes vitamins and minerals and has done since we started TTC and he asked Mr R about it but he said to continue them. It's weird to think that he could stop lots of these though as soon as he has had his biopsy. Because after that it'll be pointless. 

So I totally understand where you're coming from. :thumbup:


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## wibble wobble

SB I really wish I didn't have to take the vitamins anymore the conception one has a really bad after taste on it :sick:


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## silverbell

wibble wobble said:


> SB I really wish I didn't have to take the vitamins anymore the conception one has a really bad after taste on it :sick:

Oh dear. Do you take it with a meal at night? I take the Pregnacare Conception one at this time and never had a problem. Hope that helps? If not ... sorry! Yet another thing we go through, eh?


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## MoBaby

Hi everybody! Good hearing all these updates and stories. Yes this is a difficult road and we will all get through it one way or another. I was feeling soooo angry with life and god when I first learned about dh but we are dealing with it now. I think what has helped is the fact his second sa came back with a good number of sperm 600000 per drop (still very very low) but we were given the okay to do frozen samples. He has appt with uro to discuss genetic testing on october 17th.... I am starting my ivf meds tomorrow. Egg retrevial around nov 7th. We are praying genetic testing is okay.. if anything, I will only have been on birth control if anything is serious because I don't start lupron until oct 19th. Sooo girls there is hope... if we can't get swimmers with 2 frozen and 1 fresh then we will have to go to original plan of tese.....fx we don't.


I know this is still a long road but I know that something good has to come out of all this no matter what. Hugs for all you and I look forward to hearing all the updates!


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## Bookworm

H thanks everyone, I should know better really but I guess the emotions just got the better of me recently with the results of the genetic test looming and then the confirmation of CF and having to tell the family - just a big jumble of concerns and anxiety.

SB, I know that the best possible solution is that the test biopsy will also yield enough swimmers for ICSI too, but don't worry if they only find a few to work with on the day - in that case, or if the quality isn't quite there they might still suggest that DH comes back for another biopsy when you're doing ER - that's what we're doing.

They got 2 vials at the initial biopsy, 1 was used on the day to see how it reacted to the process and 1 frozen. I think because we have decided against donor sperm they want to bring DH back in on the day and the frozen batch will be our back up - they didn't want to bring me in and risk the swimmers not making it through the thaw; but equally they didn't want to try thawing our only remaining vial early for further tests and then maybe they don't find swimmers next time.... Freaks me out if I think about it too much. 

I don't want to bring you down SB but just wanted you to be aware it's a possibility - when they first talked about it wit us I got a bit needlessly worried, but realised later that it does make sense for us. But FX that you guys will get 5 vials of top notch swimmers:thumbup:


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## Bookworm

Wibble Wobble - I've been thinking of you guys, when will you hear?


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## silverbell

I have to be honest, Bookworm. Right now I honestly don't think they'll find a single sperm in there. I just don't think he's making them. :nope: Sounds terrible, but that's where I am right now. Maybe I'll change my mind again in a few weeks or whatever, but there you go.

I see what you mean about calling him back again to do a fresh transfer etc. It could start to get very complicated if that's the case though, as mTESE is my DH's only real hope (as told by Mr R) and this is done in London and I can't get NHS funding to get ICSI and IVF at London. So it would have be private, which we really cannot afford.

I think it's just a case of waiting to see what happens and going from there. I'm not going to try to think of all the possible outcomes because my brain will explode :haha:


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## MissAma

:( It's heartbreaking to read of how you all feel. How we all feel. I guess I am a worse person than you ladies because one sentiment I don't see mentioned that I had in spades was being mad at him. Rationally I know it was not his fault, how on earth would it be?!? but emotionally I could kick him that's how mad I was that I could not be pregnant like everyone else, that I could not see two lines on the HPT, that I could not put on romantic music, pop open a bottle of wine and set about to make a baby that night. It seemed like his fault that all of this I had no control over and was out of reach. But I learned to deal with it and remember that it was my choice to be with him -if only because of an out of control reason: loving him- and then I learned to understand that we're a team and in this together. It didn't make the TESEs any easier and none of the tens of cycles in the many years we struggled to pry a baby from azoospermia's hands has been without mourning and, if I'm honest I even mourn now despite my arms not being empty anymore. 

The friends we started TTC with are on their 3rd and 4th baby since we started, the ones we did the first IVF with have kindergarden goers and those we gave birth with are pregnant. We can have none of that, the being-forced-to-be-different-by-infertility we'll all always mourn but it gets better and it gets easier and there are :baby: s waiting for all of us at the end of this challenge who will get much more loving, appreciating parents than most other babies so it's absolutely worth it.

And at the end of all that mush an update: we have a pre-screening meeting at the clinic on Tuesday to discuss TESE and when to do that -i.e. wait for Jan and cut him fresh at the same time as my EC or cut him now to ensure there is sperm and freeze it-.


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## wibble wobble

Bookworm it's monday we find out the result, don't think I've ever wanted a weekend to go so quick

SB it's the pregnacare conception I take too,it doesn't matter what time of day I take them at if I take them with water I can taste them. The makers need to sugar coat them a little better!


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## Sar187

Wow I've missed a lot since I was on last. 

Silver, 5% chance is better than none, that is great that your hubby is still going through with it even with that small of a chance, I'm not sure mine would do the TESE if the chances were that low. 

Those of you talking about the grieving process, it really is just that when you find you about something like this. I lost my dad a year and a half ago, after finding out about our infertility I went through the same process I did with my dad, maybe not quite as intense but definitely the same. We grieve the loss of our ability to do this on our own. For it to be a romantic experience. Instead it is a cold medical procedure with fertilization not even happening inside of our bodies.

MissAma-I went through a stage where I wanted to be mad at someone, I think we tend to turn on our hubbies because who else can we really be mad at. I knew it wasn't his fault though and that I shouldn't resent him for it. It just as easily could have been me with the problem. So if anything I am going to blame that dr. that did his hernia surgery that most likely caused this lol.

Wibble-I hope the results from the TESE are good!

Deb, When I went in for my mock transfer I didn't feel the catheter either. Cleaning the cervix is an odd sensation but didn't really bother me any. I think the worst part for me was having to have a full bladder, that makes it really uncomfortable. The injections get easier the more you do them. Be prepared for possible bruising wherever you do them though. I have had a few of them bruise but most are just fine. 

AFM-My last monitoring appt. was today. I had lots of good follies and everything else looked good. I take my last stim shot tonight, my last lupron shot tomorrow morning, and will take my HCG shots tomorrow night. We are all scheduled for Monday morning. I am scheduled for retrieval at 9am monday and hubby is scheduled at 12:30pm Monday. Not sure whether to be excited or nervous right now :).


----------



## silverbell

wibble wobble said:


> SB it's the pregnacare conception I take too,it doesn't matter what time of day I take them at if I take them with water I can taste them. The makers need to sugar coat them a little better!

Oh! I never noticed at all. I guess I'm used to taking various large tablets as I take 6 a day for my colitis and they're not particularly nice.



Sar187 said:


> Silver, 5% chance is better than none, that is great that your hubby is still going through with it even with that small of a chance, I'm not sure mine would do the TESE if the chances were that low.
> 
> AFM-My last monitoring appt. was today. I had lots of good follies and everything else looked good. I take my last stim shot tonight, my last lupron shot tomorrow morning, and will take my HCG shots tomorrow night. We are all scheduled for Monday morning. I am scheduled for retrieval at 9am monday and hubby is scheduled at 12:30pm Monday. Not sure whether to be excited or nervous right now :).

Thanks, Sar. He never even suggested not going ahead and has always said from the start that he would have this op even if given a 1 in a million chance because he would have to know in his own head whether it was a possibility or not or he wouldn't be able to go for donor sperm, which I think is fair enough. Bless him, he even said today he'd undergo it as many times as were required if it meant we had a chance.

Oh wow! How exciting about Monday! I really do hope that all goes absolutely brilliantly and smoothly. Looking forward to hearing how it went.


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## Bookworm

SB:hugs: I think we all have to hope for the best & try to be prepared for the worst... It's a horrible waiting game at every stage. I really hope you guys get some good news.

I have to say I've never felt angry at DH, which I thought I would (maybe that denial talking). I see him very much as a victim of this too, so I'm not angry at him- I am however ANGRY!!!!! I sometimes feel like I'm full of a massive directionless rage; I want to be angry at people who announce pregnancies, and people who keep reminding me about people who are pregnant and people who ask me when I'm planning to get pregnant - the frustration & anger bubble up in me at times like this but you can't really vent can you? I just grin and try to make it through the conversation and usually there are tears shed in private... Not always, but sometimes it just all gets too much.

And I think I'll always feel this way, like MissAma said this won't just evaporate with one successful cycle - I know already from friends & family with 1 child, as soon as the 1st is born people are looking for no2... 

My main problem is my mind works too hard - I should be taking a leaf out of SB's book and not trying to think through all possible future problems (though on a semi-positive note I've even manage to worry about post-natal deoression:dohh:)

I've everything crossed for you Wibblewobble, really hope Monday brings some good news.


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## snd80

Bookworm said:


> I have to say I've never felt angry at DH, which I thought I would (maybe that denial talking). I see him very much as a victim of this too, so I'm not angry at him- I am however ANGRY!!!!! I sometimes feel like I'm full of a massive directionless rage; I want to be angry at people who announce pregnancies, and people who keep reminding me about people who are pregnant and people who ask me when I'm planning to get pregnant - the frustration & anger bubble up in me at times like this but you can't really vent can you? I just grin and try to make it through the conversation and usually there are tears shed in private... Not always, but sometimes it just all gets too much.

I could have written this myself! I can't help it! I am SO mad at the world, GOD, and everyone I see with a bump!!! I can't control it! I can't tell you how often I cry silently in the shower at night... hubby doesn't understand it. Then that makes me mad at him b/c I think he doesn't care as much as I do about having a child! It is one vicious cycle! IDK what to do anymore... it is just SOOO unfair! I think about those I know with kids (some really unfit to be parents, and no, I'm not being mean about it either, it is TRUE!) and ask God why they deserve it more than we do? I just want my heart to "heal"... or maybe I am just having a "hormonal" moment! Hope it gets better for you...


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## Deb111

Snd - :hugs:

Wibble wobble - have been thinking of you and hoping for fab news for you on Monday - can't understand why you've had to wait?? :growlmad:

Sar - so excited for you for Monday - hope all goes well for you both :hugs:

Hope everyone else is ok xx


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## silverbell

Bookworm said:


> SB:hugs: I think we all have to hope for the best & try to be prepared for the worst... It's a horrible waiting game at every stage. I really hope you guys get some good news.
> 
> I have to say I've never felt angry at DH, which I thought I would (maybe that denial talking). I see him very much as a victim of this too, so I'm not angry at him- I am however ANGRY!!!!! I sometimes feel like I'm full of a massive directionless rage; I want to be angry at people who announce pregnancies, and people who keep reminding me about people who are pregnant and people who ask me when I'm planning to get pregnant - the frustration & anger bubble up in me at times like this but you can't really vent can you? I just grin and try to make it through the conversation and usually there are tears shed in private... Not always, but sometimes it just all gets too much.
> 
> And I think I'll always feel this way, like MissAma said this won't just evaporate with one successful cycle - I know already from friends & family with 1 child, as soon as the 1st is born people are looking for no2...
> 
> My main problem is my mind works too hard - I should be taking a leaf out of SB's book and not trying to think through all possible future problems (though on a semi-positive note I've even manage to worry about post-natal deoression:dohh:)
> 
> I've everything crossed for you Wibblewobble, really hope Monday brings some good news.

Another very angry lady here :blush: I get angry at so many things. I am getting particularly angry at the moment with acquaintances pregnancy updates. Completely harmless and I can't wait to be doing that myself, but for me right now it's bloody heartbreaking. As I've said before, it's different with my friends I've made on here somehow, but with friends and colleagues I find it a real struggle to be happy for them.

Bookworm, I'm usually terrible for thinking too far ahead, overanalysing and thinking of every single possibility. However, I have gotten to the point where there are literally so many possible outcomes that it seems daft to dwell on each one individually. Plus I honestly don't feel like I can take it any more. It's like my brain is too 'full' already and I think I'd just stress out if I started really pondering things too much. So it is completely against my usual character, but is something that's definitely helping me to just cope at the moment.


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## KB38

:hugs::hugs::hugs: thank you all so very much for sharing how you are all feeling as well. It really helps to know that I'm not alone in how I'm feeling. 

It sounds like a big week a few of you this week. I have my fingers crossed for you. I hope you get the news you are hoping for and deserve. 

AFM, we still have no plans. DH has been seeing a chinese herbalist (never thought I'd be the alternate type but it is our last chance) so I guess we'll just wait and see. 

In the meantime, I really have to snap out of it and I clearly can't do it on my own so I'm going to find a counsellor who can help like you suggested SB. 

I've also got to start looking after myself as, gulp, I've been putting on weight like there's no tomorrow which is making a bad situation so much worse. I wore the same pair of pants to work every day last week as none of my other clothes fit :dohh::dohh::dohh:


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## wibble wobble

KB38 I've also been eating non stop,even though I know I'm doing it and want to stop it's hard to break the pattern at the minute. I've put on the half a stone I said I was determined to lose :blush: :growlmad:


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## silverbell

KB38 said:


> In the meantime, I really have to snap out of it and I clearly can't do it on my own so I'm going to find a counsellor who can help like you suggested SB.

I am so pleased to hear this. This is how I ended up contacting a counsellor, KB. I just got to the point where I felt too overwhelmed to even think straight and I felt like was falling apart and that's when I got a counselling session organised. I was lucky enough to have some free sessions with my place of work. I hope you get something quickly. It honestly really helped me to understand that what I was feeling was normal and also why I was feeling what I was feeling if that makes sense. She pointed out 2 really obvious things that I just wasn't seeing at the time and as soon as I took note of these I started to feel a heck of a lot better. Sometimes we're so deep in our grief and upset that we don't see what is blindingly obvious.



wibble wobble said:


> KB38 I've also been eating non stop,even though I know I'm doing it and want to stop it's hard to break the pattern at the minute. I've put on the half a stone I said I was determined to lose :blush: :growlmad:

Wibble wobble, please don't worry about your weight right now. That goes for all of you. You all have so much to deal with and it's a shame to think you're worrying about your weight on top of everything else :hugs:

I shall be thinking of you tomorrow, my friend, and I shall be hoping for very wonderful, positive news. :flower:


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## MissAma

Good luck today Wibble Wobble and Sar!


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## Pamplemousse

Big days for Wibble Wobble and Sar. Really hope good things happen today!!

Oddly enough for me, my first AF since the news of the evil Azoo has arrived (TMI, I know!) and I thought I would be a weeping bucket of mess, and I am not. Maybe its because this is the first month of knowing that I am not going to be pregnant instead of the all the high hopes and analysing of every twinge.

I did bail out of a christening on Sunday though. I really could not face a string of questions about when I am going to have a baby etc etc. Normally I am pretty good at shrugging things off, sometimes I play the career minded card in order to get people off my back. This also stops people asking DH questions and it breaks my heart when that happens. Sunday, however, I justed wanted to chill with DH and think about the things in our life we are happy with instead of being made to feel miserable.

Hope all you ladies are doing ok!


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## Deb111

Been thinking of Wibble and Sar xx


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## Deb111

So I took my last OCP last Wednesday and :af: still hasn't shown up. Phoned the clinic today as I thought it may affect me starting my stims on Thursday but the IVF nurse spoke to a Dr to clarify and apparently it's fine. I was only on the pill for just over 2 weeks and my lining was only 3.4 (I think) when I had my scan the other day so apparently my lining didn't have time to get very thick before I stopped the pill, so I may spot a bit (which I am - a TINY bit), I may get :af: or I may not, but I'm fine to continue as planned :happydance:


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## Pamplemousse

Deb111 said:


> So I took my last OCP last Wednesday and :af: still hasn't shown up. Phoned the clinic today as I thought it may affect me starting my stims on Thursday but the IVF nurse spoke to a Dr to clarify and apparently it's fine. I was only on the pill for just over 2 weeks and my lining was only 3.4 (I think) when I had my scan the other day so apparently my lining didn't have time to get very thick before I stopped the pill, so I may spot a bit (which I am - a TINY bit), I may get :af: or I may not, but I'm fine to continue as planned :happydance:

Good news Deb111, it seems that it is all systems go for you!

Hope Wibble Wobble and Sar have good news!!


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## MoBaby

Good News Deb!!

I am on day 3 of birth control (making me a bit sick to my stomach :( )

Today the andrology lab called and said they do not think DH sperm could survive a cryo process so they are only going to allow us to provide a sample on the egg retrevial day, which scares me since his count flucutates. I dont know what to think of this. They said if they cant get sperm then they have had good success with freezing eggs and fertilizing later (if DH would have to have TESE)..... What I wish we could do is have the urologist on standby to do the TESE if needed, but I feel he doesnt want to do anything withougt seeing $$ upfront... I told DH if I have to pay for him to be on standby then at least we would have that option. We will ask the urologists when we see him.

I am really frustrated today because there has been a lack of communication with the urologist and to our RE. DH was told that he could do cryo by the uro but the lab said no and the uro never communicated this with our RE but DH has a voice mail on his phone that says go ahead and do this. Now they are like you are on a numbers cruch since I am scheduled to go Nov 7th, but I did what the RE said to do. I gave him all this info, including the fact we didnot have an appt with uro to follow up until oct 17th, but all they had to say was call when your period starts. And now all the meds are going to be at the pharmacy soon.... Just worried and frustrated that we may not get sperm on egg day :( I would like to use fresh eggies but I am not going to waste eggies if there is no sperm. Oh well... 

Hope Wibble and Sar have good news also :)


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## Sar187

Mobaby-Sorry things are not going well. Dr's can be so frustrating sometimes!

Deb-You are so close to starting stims, so exciting! I was told that the period after stopping birth control didn't really matter, it was more of a formality that they even wanted to know about it. 

AFM-the TESE went well and sure enough the urologist said there is a lot of scar tissue in there from the hernia surgeries DH had when he was a child. He is now 99% positive this is the cause of the problem. We got 14 eggs from me and enough sperm to fertilize those 14 eggs plus freeze 6 vials! Our fertilization report wasn't as good as we had hoped but we had 4 eggs fertilize normally. So we now have 4 little embryos growing in dishes! Transfer will be on Thursday. Hopefully we will be able to transfer 2 and freeze 2.

I hope Wibble Wobble got some good news yesterday!


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## MoBaby

Thats great Sar! :) Good luck.


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## silverbell

Huge congratulations, Sar. What a simply amazing result for you both. Fantastic news :dance:


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## MissAma

OMG Sar that is loads and loads of sperm! One Fresh go and 6 vials -likely one or two more goes after it's thawed-? That is awesome news! Why haven't you guys done ICSI this time? Or have you?

Deb - Glad everything is going according to plan, you must be getting so excited now!

MoBaby - I would do exactly what you describe - have the TESE alternative on stand by although, I will say they will probably argue that if the count that day is bad then the production hasn't been that stellar on the inside either so they shouldn't cut? Just speculating I guess.

AFM - Well first appointment is done and dusted. It barely feels like a FS visit what with just talking and no wand-ing but it couldn't have went better. We need to get him our records and some details need deciding but he's happy with us starting any time, sees no show stoppers - read "must be blind"!- , is optimistic about chances and is looking forward to downregulating me mid Jan and we can likely have our surgeries beginning of March. LastBorn enjoy your last few months floating in babies-in-waiting land, mommy and daddy are coming to getcha!!!


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## Sar187

Thanks everyone!

MissAma-We did do ICSI this time, our clinic requires ICSI when doing a sperm retrieval. Just so glad we got 6 to freeze so DH shouldn't have to go through TESE again. 

Right now I am just trying to restrain myself from calling the clinic to see how my embryos are doing. I don't get an update until I go in for transfer tomorrow morning.


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## wibble wobble

Hey everyone, thanks for thinking of me and sending best wishes.

The results on Monday were the worst news,no sperm found. We're both cut up about it,but we'd already talked about the possibility of this happening and we're happy to go ahead with our dream of having a baby using donor sperm. It's going to take a while to get used to the idea of having a strangers baby and I have loads of questions that need answering,but for the moment we're left in limbo land while we wait for the hospital to process us for diui (if my hsg comes back clear) I'm hoping the don't leave it too long to write.... I need to know whats happening next


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## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> Mobaby-Sorry things are not going well. Dr's can be so frustrating sometimes!
> 
> Deb-You are so close to starting stims, so exciting! I was told that the period after stopping birth control didn't really matter, it was more of a formality that they even wanted to know about it.
> 
> AFM-the TESE went well and sure enough the urologist said there is a lot of scar tissue in there from the hernia surgeries DH had when he was a child. He is now 99% positive this is the cause of the problem. We got 14 eggs from me and enough sperm to fertilize those 14 eggs plus freeze 6 vials! Our fertilization report wasn't as good as we had hoped but we had 4 eggs fertilize normally. So we now have 4 little embryos growing in dishes! Transfer will be on Thursday. Hopefully we will be able to transfer 2 and freeze 2.
> 
> I hope Wibble Wobble got some good news yesterday!

Fabulous news sar! :happydance::happydance: Hope you are both feeling ok physically xx


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## Deb111

wibble wobble said:


> Hey everyone, thanks for thinking of me and sending best wishes.
> 
> The results on Monday were the worst news,no sperm found. We're both cut up about it,but we'd already talked about the possibility of this happening and we're happy to go ahead with our dream of having a baby using donor sperm. It's going to take a while to get used to the idea of having a strangers baby and I have loads of questions that need answering,but for the moment we're left in limbo land while we wait for the hospital to process us for diui (if my hsg comes back clear) I'm hoping the don't leave it too long to write.... I need to know whats happening next

I'm so sorry to read this Wibble :hugs: 

I'm glad you have a plan and are happy to discuss donor sperm. Of course you will have loads of questions and there will be lots to discuss, but I know you will get your baby. 

I hope hubby is recovering well.

thinking of you both and sending you lots of hugs :hugs: Be gentle with yourselves xx


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Wibble Wobble,

Hope you and DH are doing ok? I can only imagine how hard it must feel for you right now. It may be cold comfort but over the last weeks I have drawn the conclusion that for all of us there is a child which is "ours" waiting to be loved and adored by us. the "science" of it may be different to how we imagined, but none the less if we continue to hope then that child will come to us in various ways.

Be easy on yourself!!! Lots of hugs! x


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## Pamplemousse

Sar187 said:


> Mobaby-Sorry things are not going well. Dr's can be so frustrating sometimes!
> 
> Deb-You are so close to starting stims, so exciting! I was told that the period after stopping birth control didn't really matter, it was more of a formality that they even wanted to know about it.
> 
> AFM-the TESE went well and sure enough the urologist said there is a lot of scar tissue in there from the hernia surgeries DH had when he was a child. He is now 99% positive this is the cause of the problem. We got 14 eggs from me and enough sperm to fertilize those 14 eggs plus freeze 6 vials! Our fertilization report wasn't as good as we had hoped but we had 4 eggs fertilize normally. So we now have 4 little embryos growing in dishes! Transfer will be on Thursday. Hopefully we will be able to transfer 2 and freeze 2.
> 
> I hope Wibble Wobble got some good news yesterday!

Great news Sar! Exciting/nerve racking times ahead. Really hope all goes well! xx


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## MoBaby

wibble- sorry things did not go so well :( But I am happy to read you guys are okay with donor sperm :) You both will love that baby and it wont matter where the sperm came from :) Good luck with your HSG :)


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## Sar187

Wibble-So sorry to hear that there was nothing found. I'm glad you are both embracing the idea of donor sperm. I'm sure it won't be an easy road, but you will love the baby you get from it!

AFM-We transferred 2 A quality embryos today a 6 cell and an 8 cell. Sadly our other 2 embryos were C quality(worst for our clinic) and didn't meet freezing requirements. Now we wait. My Beta is set for october 17th.


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## Deb111

So exciting Sar - you sound very calm about it all!! 

Hope everyone else is doing ok. Thinking of you and hubby Wibble

AFM, did my first injection this morning and apart from a little stinging when the fluid went in and the fact that I stabbed my thumb with the nice thick mixing needle before I even started :rofl: all went well xx


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## silverbell

Thinking of you, Wibble. :hugs:

Sar that's great news. Can't wait to hear how it goes and crossing my fingers for you. X x


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## Sar187

Deb-This 2ww is going to drive me crazy! haha. Right now just praying 1 or both of these implant and trying to stay stress free at the same time. Glad your injection didn't go too bad. The biggest things I found were to make sure I really relaxed the muscles where I was injecting and to make sure the med was at room temperature before injecting. Also you may have been told this but it helps prevent brusing and bleeding if you leave the needle in for a count of 5 seconds or so before you pull it out. Really hoping everything goes well for you!

DH has already been constantly touching my belly going, theres embryos in there! I'm not sure what to think right now. I know their there but I don't feel any different so its kind of like ok well other than resting theres really nothing I can do to help make this work right now.


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## snd80

I can't believe I let my hopes run high again. Got news from the dr. that bloods indicated that it was in fact testicular. Testosterone was low and FSH was high, so that's that. I'm out. I can't afford the next step so I am doomed to infinate childless hell. I'm so hurt, I can't stop crying and hubby is blaming himself. I just don't understand. Dr. wants us to come Tues to discuss options, but what is the point? Another bill to have to pay? I'm over it. I'm soooooo over it.


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> I can't believe I let my hopes run high again. Got news from the dr. that bloods indicated that it was in fact testicular. Testosterone was low and FSH was high, so that's that. I'm out. I can't afford the next step so I am doomed to infinate childless hell. I'm so hurt, I can't stop crying and hubby is blaming himself. I just don't understand. Dr. wants us to come Tues to discuss options, but what is the point? Another bill to have to pay? I'm over it. I'm soooooo over it.

snd80 :hugs: I'm so sorry you're feeling this way.

I don't really understand though? Low testosterone and high FSH is quite a normal result for an azoospermic man. My husband has the same results. In fact, Mr R said that a high FSH simply shows that the body has recognised a problem and is trying to rectify it, which he said is always encouraging. These results show testicular failure, but tesicular failure doesn't mean no sperm at all. The only real way of knowing for sure is to have the biopsy/TESE. No one result or set of results can say for sure if a man is producing sperm or not.

I have absolutely no idea about the US healthcare system. When you say you can't afford the next step, what would this be exactly? The testicular biopsy?

I'm sorry you're feeling so incredibly low and I really hope you're wrong about the 2 of you being childless forever. There are so many ladies going through the same thing with a family of their own, with so many different journeys to get that final outcome. :hug:


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## snd80

Thank you SB, but what I mean is I know  the next step will be the TESE and ICSI/IVF, to which we have no insurance, divorced b/c of issues due to his Kidney Failure insurances, and no judge will dare let us/me adopt, which I don't want in the first place. Call me selfish, but I just want my OWN child. Is that too much to ask for?! I'm just so mad for that dr. giving me false hope! Like "oh, this is gonna be a easy fix". I should have known better. Nothing in my life has ever been easy, so I am mad at myself as well for believing. At one time I was ready for going for donor, but after this it is like to what avail? Will hubby resent it? Will it be the end to our "marriage"? Then there again is the money factor. My aunt/2nd mother said she would pay for it, but she shouldn't have to! This shouldn't even be an issue! Punish those who DON'T deserve to me mothers! Why give me this STRONG desire for a child to then be like "nah". How effing cruel. Right now I am just mad at the world, GOD especially, and everyone in my path. I just feel like going home and downing my whole bottle of xanex right now. Tomorrow might be different, but I highly doubt it... I feel like I have lost the child I have wanted so bad but never had.


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## silverbell

snd, I am so sorry I really am :hugs:

Please don't do anything silly. Take a good look around you and try to realise how many people's lives are touched by you. I bet there are a great deal, as you seem to be a very sensitive and caring person.

I'm so sorry about the doctor giving you false hope. 

I understandly ENTIRELY what you mean when you say, "I just want my OWN child. Is that too much to ask for?!" That's precisely how I feel and I'm pretty certain that's how all of us here have felt at one point or another. It seems terribly unfair that us couples who really want a child more than anything are being denied the chance through no fault of our own and by something that is beyond our control. There is absolutely *nothing* fair about azoospermia. Period.

You're not alone and I only wish I could give you a big hug right now. Please speak openly to your partner. It will help to get all of this off your chest. I don't know what I would have done without my husband's support, you ladies on here and counselling.

I hope you're feeling better soon, snd. :hugs:


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## Sar187

snd-There are some options to look into in order to afford the next step/steps. If you have any insurance at all, you might be able to get part of TESE covered. There are also grants that you can apply for here in the US that are specifically geared toward people with no insurance. Another place to check is fertilitylifelines.com. They have a lot of good information about both questions to ask and you can apply for help in paying for your infertility costs. There are also a lot of companies that are geared toward financing IVF and related medical procedures for a fairly low rate somewhere around 8.5%. I can't think of the examples off the top of my head but if you would like them I can get you the info. 

Another thing would be to consider adopting an embryo. I know this isn't really what you want but if you said no judge would consider you to adopt a child. An embryo adoption is not as rigorous a process as a child adoption nor is it as expensive and in the US there are a lot of fertility clinics starting to offer this option as a lot of parents who have ended up with many frozen embryos are deciding they want to donate their embryos after they finish creating their own family. 

Don't give up hope though. If I have learned anything from infertility it is that I am stronger than I ever thought I was. That I will fight for my children even if they don't exist yet. Infertility is an awful thing but the more we fight the better it will be for women going through this in the future. 

Hugs to you!


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## silverbell

Sar187 said:


> snd-There are some options to look into in order to afford the next step/steps. If you have any insurance at all, you might be able to get part of TESE covered. There are also grants that you can apply for here in the US that are specifically geared toward people with no insurance. Another place to check is fertilitylifelines.com. They have a lot of good information about both questions to ask and you can apply for help in paying for your infertility costs. There are also a lot of companies that are geared toward financing IVF and related medical procedures for a fairly low rate somewhere around 8.5%. I can't think of the examples off the top of my head but if you would like them I can get you the info.
> 
> Another thing would be to consider adopting an embryo. I know this isn't really what you want but if you said no judge would consider you to adopt a child. An embryo adoption is not as rigorous a process as a child adoption nor is it as expensive and in the US there are a lot of fertility clinics starting to offer this option as a lot of parents who have ended up with many frozen embryos are deciding they want to donate their embryos after they finish creating their own family.
> 
> Don't give up hope though. If I have learned anything from infertility it is that I am stronger than I ever thought I was. That I will fight for my children even if they don't exist yet. Infertility is an awful thing but the more we fight the better it will be for women going through this in the future.
> 
> Hugs to you!

Lots of things to think about from Sar's post here, snd. 

I also fully agree with the last paragraph. All of us azoo couples are incredibly strong. I would imagine there are many couples that wouldn't stay together with all this going on and it's testament to our strength of character and the strength of our relationships with our partners that we're battling on through and still aiming and hoping for that dream of a family.


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## KB38

snd, I am so very sorry to read your news and of how you're feeling. My heart is aching for you. 

I agree entirely with what Silverbell and Sar187 have said. 

I also wanted to add that whilst it is perfectly normal and really important to grieve (like you are), it is really important that you always remember you are NOT alone. In fact, you are far from alone. For starters, it sounds like you have a wonderfully generous aunt and of course, all of us who know exactly what it feels like to learn of an azoo diagnosis and to grieve for the children we can't have "normally".

Take one step at a time and don't get too far ahead of yourself with worrying about your marriage or donor sperm or anything else that you might be thinking. It is impossible to make any rational decisions when you're feeling the way that you are now so don't even try. 

Have a think about something you loved to do during a happier time in your life and do it, either alone or with your DH. If you can't think of anything, then you can borrow mine. Find a swing in a park and see how high you can go before you jump off (I'm embarrassed to say I was too scared to jump so I had to slow right down and step off)!


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## KB38

Wibble, I've just read your post from earlier in the week too. 

Having been in your position only a few months ago, I know that nothing anyone can say will make you feel better. 

I'm so pleased to read that you and your DH have made a decision to use donor sperm and hope you don't have to wait too long to get things moving!


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## Deb111

Gosh, I've missed a lot!

Snd - I am SO sorry you're feeling so low right now :hugs: The other girls are right - we've all been through these feelings. The other girls have summed it all up perfectly. 

When you get 'yet another' piece of bad news, your world falls apart yet again and it feels so overwhelming, but somehow, the body must have something that kicks in to deal with the shock, because we somehow manage to drag ourselves back up and start to focus on the next tiny step.

SB is right - your dh's blood results do indicate testicular failure and I'm sure I've posted a link somewhere in this thread before - there is no way of knowing how much of the testes are failing. There is no way of knowing if parts of the testes are still making sperm.

Like SB, I know nothing about the US medical system, but if you are saying TESE is no an option, DEFINITELY talk to the specialist about tamoxifen or arimadex.

I am another one whose hubby has raised FSH and low testosterone and he has been prescribed these and his blood results have improved greatly. 

His testoserone has gone from 8 up to 13 and the purpose of the meds is actually to drive the FSH higher, which it has done agreat job of.

At his last SA, there were still no sperm, but he hadn't been on them for the full 3 months at that point. It's looking like he'll still need the microTESE but we're told it can return sperm to the ejaculate.

As for cost - the tamoxifen cost is £9.93 for a 3 months supply!!! and when he switched to the arimadex, it was just under £30 for 2 months! 

What were your dh's testosterone and FSH levels?

I really hope you are starting to feel a little more positive and please feel free to come on here and rant as much as you like - we've all been there xx


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## snd80

First off I want to thank each of you for your thoughts and comments! 

I knew this was destined to be a bad week. Tues my ex-BF had her baby and it has been a struggle since then, then all this shit happened Thurs as I was walking out the door from work. Today is a little better, but I am on my xanex though, so that might have something to do with it. LOL! Plus I got scolded at work this morning for being such a crying lump yesterday and was told to come back Mon with a better attitude. WTF do they expect?! Like I have told all of them, until you've been there, you have NO idea! Plus I am the only girl here, so what do you expect?! Men are made of steel, and assholes...

Hubby is being so supportave about all of this. He keeps blaming himself, but I told him I think of him as a victim as I am in this. He said we would go to the appt. Tues to see what the dr. had to say and we would go from there. (And I will ask about those meds Deb! Thanks!!!!) 

Here in BFE Mississippi, there aren't many choices for places to go for IUI w/ donor or even IVF but Jackson, which is about 5 hours from us. There are programs offered in Louisiana and Alabama for egg donor trade outs for IVF, but you have to be "tax paying residents" to be elligable. BOOOOO! I would do it in a HEARTBEAT if it meant helping someout out like I _need_ helping out right now!!! 

Sar, if you happen to run up on any of those loan places, please let me know! I found the Springstone Patient Financing one, but I think you have to have a dr. that participates in the program b/c they pay the dr. directly. IDK!

So if I can remember right, his Testosterone was 192 and FSH was 15.1? I have the crappy letter they sent instead of calling me like they PROMISED! I'll double check when I get home. IDK if I really need to be present at the appt. for fear of going off on him for being so insensitave, but hubby is a forgetful one about important dr. related issues (a nightmare when it comes to his dialysis stuff!), so I guess I will *have* to go...

Sorry for a life story, but really wanted to let you girls know again that I love you all w/out even "knowing" you and am so thankful to have found ya'll!!!! :hugs:


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## Deb111

snd80 said:


> Plus I got scolded at work this morning for being such a crying lump yesterday and was told to come back Mon with a better attitude. WTF do they expect?! Like I have told all of them, until you've been there, you have NO idea! Plus I am the only girl here, so what do you expect?! Men are made of steel, and assholes...
> 
> So if I can remember right, his Testosterone was 192 and FSH was 15.1? I have the crappy letter they sent instead of calling me like they PROMISED! I'll double check when I get home.
> 
> Sorry for a life story, but really wanted to let you girls know again that I love you all w/out even "knowing" you and am so thankful to have found ya'll!!!! :hugs:

Being spoken to like that at work in unacceptable whether or not they know what you're going through. If it continues I would put a complaint in!

If the FSH is measured in the same units as in the UK, that sounds very positive. That is similar to my hubby's and the specialist said it was very promising because it meant his body had recognised there was a problem, but still had plenty of scope to be pushed much higher to drive production even further.

I will be interested to see what the results are when you double check and what units they are measured in.

So glad you have found this group helpful and supportive. I guess when we try to find small positives in this journey, one of mine is definitely the wonderful support I've found on here and the sharing of information and of course, the wonderful friends I have made xx


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## snd80

Again, many, MANY thanks to Sar, KB, SB and Deb! I wish we could all meet and have a good pity-party cry together... ha! I do not have internet at home so I will bring the lab results and post them Mon. Deb. As far as work, I work for a small family owned furniture store doing the book keeping and was scolded by the owner, so no one to report to! LOL! He's a grumpy old man anyways, so whatever! He'll get over it! 

Hope everyone has a great weekend and sorry for taking the "spotlight" away from those with great things rolling along! You all deserve them! :hugs: and lots o' love!!!!!!!


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## Deb111

Hoped I might catch you before you finished for the day at work. Anyway, I paid a visit to my dear friend Dr Google and it looks like your dh's testosterone level would be measured in ng/dL and in the uk it is measured in nmol/L. If so 192 in the US would translate to about 6.6 in the UK. My hubby's results varied between 5.8 and 8ish before the tamoxifen and is now 13.4 ish (converts to about 385 in US scale) and could be even higher now we're past the 3 month mark.

Definitely push it with the specialist. Might even be worth you putting in a call to dr turek in the US. He will give you a free 10 minute consultation about your dh's results etc and it will give you some things to discuss at the specialist appt. Just email his secretary - would be worth a second opinion even if you can't sort it before Tuesday 

https://www.theturekclinic.com/male-fertility-consultation.html


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## silverbell

snd, don't worry about 'taking the spotlight away' from others. This thread is for all of us - at good times and bad - and you're free to post what you want.

I like Deb's suggestions :thumbup:


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## Pamplemousse

Snd80,

I am so sorry to hear you are having a rough time at the moment. It seems you been given some great advice from Deb111 and others and I hope it has helped.

I think I speak for everyone else when I say that you must never feel you are "taking the spotlight". We all come to the site because it is the only place we know our feelings can really be understood. I am new to all this, so my advise is no way as experienced as Deb111, but I do send lots of hugs!!! 

AFM: Had a really weepy moment on Friday. A baby of my own seems so far away and I am so angy that all the excitement of having a baby has been taking away from me. So cue late night call to my mum and 40mins of tears. 

DH and I have been discussing adoption. We are so ready to try ICIS and anything that can help us have a biological baby but we feel that if we prepare ourselves for the adoption route then if it does come to that we are a step closer to the mental preparation. Again, it brings me to tears. Over the weekend I was thinking about how as a little girl I loved nothing more than pushing my dolly's pram around my house, and being"mum" to my baby dolls, and I never imagined in a million years that not being a mum was something I would have to even think about.

So, enough of my woeful rants!! Any good news out there to keep us smiling? I would love for all of us get some goo news that takes us into 2012!!!


Wibble Wobble: How are you doing? I am sending you big hugs!!

Sar? How are things for you also?


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## Deb111

Would you consider a donor embryo Pamplemousse? I think this is something we would consider IF we have to. For us it would be preferable to adopting expecially as it would be very unlikely we'd get a baby or even a toddler as we are older.


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## wibble wobble

Hi pamplemouse I'm doing ok thanks, just want a letter to turn up to say when things will start happening again for us. I hate all the waiting around with nothing happening. 

I've spoken to a girl who had a donor ivf at my clinic and she's told me she had to wait about a month for the counselling and not very long after for everything else. So if our case is similar then at least it's not a huge wait, still I just need to have a letter with an appointment date... just for peace of mind that I haven't been forgotten about....

Deb111 I don't think embryo adoption is available in the UK yet. People I've spoken to that have had multiple frosties available after IVF either have to donate them to research or have them destroyed (it's a stupid rule, you can donate eggs and sperm but not combined)

SND Hope you are feeling a little better x


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## Deb111

wibble wobble said:


> Deb111 I don't think embryo adoption is available in the UK yet. People I've spoken to that have had multiple frosties available after IVF either have to donate them to research or have them destroyed (it's a stupid rule, you can donate eggs and sperm but not combined)

I've seen statistics on the HFEA website about treatment cycles with donor embryos. Not sure if it's available on the NHS or widely available, but I assume that info on the HFEA site means you can do it in the UK - here's hoping it's at least an option xx

EDIT - In fact I've just searched the HFEA website and according to their search criteria MFS where I am having my scans do it :thumbup:


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## MissAma

Wibble Wobble - you two are very strong and will only grow stronger from this. I've been on this merry-go-round along with others suffering from Male Infertility for 4 years now and have seen a good many couples who did dICSI and I just wanted to re-re-re-assure you that it is no different, not one even remembers to mention it was a donor cycle when they talk about their journey and on the plus side? You may go again fast and be a mommy by mid next year!

Silverbell - when will you be having treatment again? 

Snd80 -This road is not easy for anyone but you are doing well regrouping and looking into embryo adoption is indeed a great idea, it is our backup plan too.

I started a thread for those of us who will have treatment in the first part of 2012 and it was surprising how many of the new ladies going in for the first IVF are Male Factor

Sar - Are you going to be a good girl and test on you should or sneak a few peeks in earlier? I can never make it to TD, I don't even try, I test since the ovulation inducer all the way till either AF comes or -in Dara's case- till the tests faded because I was now 7 weeks along or such :)-

Deb - Excited? Only two more sleeps till the scan! How many are you hoping for?

Pampelmousse - Good idea, set your sights for the longer goal and then be pleasantly surprised if things work out sooner.

AFM - I am counting down the days till we can go again but I forget that there is no telling how many times we will have to try before we get pregnant. (Not that we have the resources to try forever, we can only afford a 3-tries-pack on our employer's tax/insurance system)


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## Sar187

SND-I know I have come across another one other than springstone financial but I can't find where I saw it right now. It wouldn't hurt to talk to the clinic you would be going to and see if they have any financial options or can recommend anything. Personally DH and I ended up taking out a line of credit. Our interest rate is 8.9% about the same as most medical financing companies can give, it is variable but it also has a cap. And as everyone else has said this is what this board is for you are not taking the spotlight away from anyone!

MissAma-I am going to try to wait to test but I don't know if I can make it. The Trigger shot(ovulation inducer) should be officially out of my system tomorrow. I was going to try to wait until Monday morning and test right before my blood draw but I may test Thursday or Friday. A couple of other women I have been chatting with that also did an october cycle tested 4dp5dt and 5dp5dt and got positives that keep getting darker. Thursday would be 7dp3dt, I am oh so tempted lol.

Pamplemousse-I'm doing pretty good, my boobs are incredibly sore, I think from the progesterone. Just trying to keep myself busy until I can test :).


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## silverbell

MissAma said:


> Silverbell - when will you be having treatment again?
> 
> AFM - I am counting down the days till we can go again but I forget that there is no telling how many times we will have to try before we get pregnant. (Not that we have the resources to try forever, we can only afford a 3-tries-pack on our employer's tax/insurance system)

DH has to have his microTESE first and that's due around January. I'm currently waiting to have an HSG scan and some bloods to check that I'm doing OK prior to having ICSI (if sperm are found) or DIUI (if no sperm found). So still in limbo land right now.

I know what you mean about the resources. This infertility lark sure is expensive. :cry: It seems so unfair that others have it so easy.


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## MissAma

Sar - I've sent you a PM :)

Silverbell - as I said there is a thread for us have-to-wait-long-ers here if you wanted company:

https://www.babyandbump.com/assisted-conception/756099-ivf-icsi-2012-luckies-group.html


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## snd80

Deb111 said:


> Hoped I might catch you before you finished for the day at work. Anyway, I paid a visit to my dear friend Dr Google and it looks like your dh's testosterone level would be measured in ng/dL and in the uk it is measured in nmol/L. If so 192 in the US would translate to about 6.6 in the UK. My hubby's results varied between 5.8 and 8ish before the tamoxifen and is now 13.4 ish (converts to about 385 in US scale) and could be even higher now we're past the 3 month mark.
> 
> Definitely push it with the specialist. Might even be worth you putting in a call to dr turek in the US. He will give you a free 10 minute consultation about your dh's results etc and it will give you some things to discuss at the specialist appt. Just email his secretary - would be worth a second opinion even if you can't sort it before Tuesday
> 
> https://www.theturekclinic.com/male-fertility-consultation.html

Ok, here's what they say...

FSH= 15.1 (High) Normal Range 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Prolactin= 8.9 Normal Range 4.0-15.2 ng/mL (what is Prolactin anyway?)
Testosterone= 194 (Low) Normal Range in Males 20-49 yo 262-1593 ng/dl

Thanks for the above site too... will check into this! "Free" is my kind of talk! No pun intended... =)


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## snd80

Hope everyone had a good weekend! Mine was a little better. Splurged on food and mixed drinks all weekend, which shot my diet to shit, but starting the gym again today after work. Gotta keep on rolling for my next step. I'm not gonna put too much into "fixing" hubby's problems, thinking more of what is financially sound for us. The IVF clinic here in MS (Jackson) ivfmississippi.com is actually more reasonable than I first thought! Which helped my feelings ALOT! IVF w/ sperm retrieval somewhere along the lines of $9000 and they do have financing! :happydance: IUI procedure is only $350, not including the cost of donor sperm w/ their shipping and such, but I figure all together with everything (sperm, travel and time off work) about $2000 per try? Very fesable for us. Sometimes I think it would be cheaper to find a college student and offer to buy him "off"! Lol! How would you even start that conversation? Hubby said he should just let me go off one weekend and "moonlight". At least he has some sense of humor about all this. I couldn't help but think of that old Heart song/video of "All I wanna do" from the 80s/90s. Who remembers that one?! Don't think I haven't thought about it either! :rofl:


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Ok, here's what they say...
> 
> FSH= 15.1 (High) Normal Range 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
> Prolactin= 8.9 Normal Range 4.0-15.2 ng/mL (what is Prolactin anyway?)
> Testosterone= 194 (Low) Normal Range in Males 20-49 yo 262-1593 ng/dl
> 
> Thanks for the above site too... will check into this! "Free" is my kind of talk! No pun intended... =)

If it helps, here are my DH's most recent results:

FSH = 47.8 IU/L
Prolactin = 217 mIU/mL (normal 26 to 280) _(can't find how to convert this to ng/mL)_
Testosterone = 239 (converted from 8.3 nmol/L)

I am obviously no expert, but from what I understand the reason my DH hasn't been given any medication to try to improve these results are because:

a) Although the Testosterone is low, it isn't scarily low.
b) The very high FSH suggests his body already knows there's something wrong and is trying to fix it. 

On looking at your husband's results, although the FSH is high it isn't that high and I wonder if they might decide to put him on some drugs to try to improve this (and thereby increase any sperm production that might be happening) prior to anything else? Deb knows a lot more than I do about this and I'm sure will be able to advise further.

I'm so pleased you've had a better weekend :hugs:


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## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Deb - Excited? Only two more sleeps till the scan! How many are you hoping for?

Very excited :happydance: Trying not to get my hopes up too much about a particular number. My AMH is very low and I only had 5 follicles last cycle when they scanned so anything more than that will be good I guess


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## Deb111

Snd - Glad your weekend improved and that options are opening up. Those results definitely seem similar to my hubby's so I would definitely ask about the tamoxifen / arimadex and don't let them fob you off without a proper discussion or reason why it wouldn't help. It may be that there are other reasons why it wouldn't be suitable for your dh, but I asked the NHS to put hubby on this 18 months ago and they said it wasn't used for men and they wouldn't prescribe it. Forgetting what it's done for his hormone levels; he was a different man on the tamoxifen - more energy, better mood, better outlook on life and the NHS refused. It took 18 months and a private specialist to get him on the right meds.

Don't worry too much about the prolactin as your dh's is within normal range, but to cut a long story short ... if it was too high ...

*"What Does Prolactin Do?
In women, the role of prolactin is fairly clear: it is released in order to stimulate milk production during pregnancy. Prolactin causes the mammary glands in a womans breasts to enlarge, and upon birth, prolactin encourages the formation of milk. Unfortunately, it is unclear what role prolactin plays in men. However, it is evident that prolactin and infertility are linked.

Effects on Male Fertility
Like prolactin infertility in women, prolactin can also affect male fertility. In fact, if you have too much prolactin in your blood stream it can cause you to become infertile. High prolactin levels have an adverse affect on the function of your testicles, and can cause decreased testosterone levels or abnormal sperm. This can cause serious problems when it comes time to conceive. Normal prolactin levels in men are typically less than 15 ng/mL. Elevated prolactin may indicate a condition called hyperprolactinemia, and this could account for your fertility difficulties.

Hyperprolactinemia
You can be diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia when you have more than 15 ng/mL of prolactin in your bloodstream. Symptoms of excess prolactin are often internal and difficult to see. Symptoms can include:

decreased sperm count 
hypogonadism (in which your testes do not produce the right amounts of testosterone) 
decreased sex drive 
impotence *


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## Deb111

Oh snd - just to add - DON'T let them put your dh on any testpsterone replacement yet - it will trick his body into thinking things are fine and he will stop making the small amounts of sperm that he may be at the moment


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## snd80

I did google "prolactin" and remembered the urilogist talking about the "boss" (the brain), so then it all came back to me. Duh! I had a blonde moment... sorry! :blush:

I also looked up those two meds you were talking about and was wondering about them both being for breast cancer and was like ? But I see what you mean now. The only deal w/ my hubby is that he is on dialysis and on a ton of meds like blood pressure meds and heart meds, and has to take blood thinner shots the days of his treatments, so those might be iffy according to webmd's interactions, but I will still ask about them. 

I have decided to be very cut and dry w/ doc tomorrow, telling him no more false hopes, that I need to know for sure. No "probably's" like he worte in his crappy mailed results, and NO MORE he-hawing around just to get paid from Medicare. I can't handle another low ball again, and if he doesn't have the experience or knowledge of all this, then refer us to Dr. Whitehead in Tupelo. I found him from the fertilitylifelines.com that Sar recommended and he is a male infertility specialist. Wish I would have found him before this one. But what can you do?

Gosh, we will ALL just about be urilogists ourselves by the time all this is over for us! haha! Thanks again girls!


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## Deb111

I know the whole breast cancer drug thing is weird but basically it works by blocking the oestrogen or something - I forget now - but the principal of how it deals with breast cancer is the same as how it deals with testosterone - stops it being converted to oestrogen if I remember rightly :shrug:

In fact, when I got hubby's prescription dispensed, the pharamcist has 'a quiet word' to make sure the dr hadn't made an error :haha:


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> I have decided to be very cut and dry w/ doc tomorrow, telling him no more false hopes, that I need to know for sure. No "probably's" like he worte in his crappy mailed results, and NO MORE he-hawing around just to get paid from Medicare. I can't handle another low ball again, and if he doesn't have the experience or knowledge of all this, then refer us to Dr. Whitehead in Tupelo. I found him from the fertilitylifelines.com that Sar recommended and he is a male infertility specialist. Wish I would have found him before this one. But what can you do?
> 
> Gosh, we will ALL just about be urilogists ourselves by the time all this is over for us! haha! Thanks again girls!

Sounds like a great plan and I'm glad you've got the name of an expert. I honestly think with this particular diagnosis (azoo), it's worth getting the opinion of an absolute expert. There are so many out there who just haven't got a clue and it can be very upsetting and disheartening, which is just what you don't need.

You're right about us being Urologists before this is all over! Sometimes it's freaky knowing more than the GP or local Urologists about these matters :haha:


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## wibble wobble

It's actually hit me now that I'll never have hubby's baby :( for the past few days I've been fighting the feelings inside me...... 

I was holding out so much hope on the tese I was convinced it was going to work they gave us a 40% chance thats high in my book. I even talked myself into believing it would work because when doctors diagnosed my dad with cancer they gave him 40% chance of survival and against the odds he went on to live another 3 years..

2 months ago I was so sure that if we had to use donor sperm it wouldn't be an issue,we've had months to get used to the idea right??? but now that it's the only way I'm so confused about how I really feel.... It's like I never really thought before that it was going to be a real option because the tese was going to find sperm and that would be the end of it theres so many strange things I'm thinking now.... like basically I'm cheating on hubby.....

My manager actually pulled me out of work,she could see that I'm 'bothered' by something, I've been close to tears on and off all day in work. She took me for coffee after the 4pm meeting. I'd told her ages ago about what was happening with my fertility journey,so she had an idea of what was wrong... don't think she was quite expecting what I told her...she was nearly in tears herself,when I said I was never having hubby's baby,she pointed out that it's me that seems to have hit a brick wall.. I'm thinking too much about the dna link,where as hubby came from a messed up family his dad walked when he was 2 his mum re-married and his brothers dad later commit suicide,she re-married again and his sisters dad is the man they all call dad (all 3 are half brother and sister) so not much dna 'the same' in them but as a family close as anything so to him dna isn't really a big issue (he's still gutted he can't have his own kids) he says my life was sheltered I came from the average family of 2.4 children when my parents married they married for life so I don't really know diversity and that's why I'm finding it more difficult to accept.

I feel really bad for hubby his family line ends with him,but he isn't as bothered as me am I just over thinking things?

I really want a baby,but part of me is scared that hubby wont love me as much after I do. 

So much I'm thinking about........ it's really winding me up :(


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## silverbell

Aw bless you :hugs: 

As I have convinced myself nothing will be found for us, I have already been thinking most of the things you've mentioned. I worry if DH will reject me or if he'll refer to the child as mine instead of ours. But to be honest I have read a lot about it and have yet to come across a couple that had this problem. Donor babies are wanted just as much as bio ones, if not more. If you think of the strength, commitment, love and longing it takes to consider using a donor, then it's easy to see why these babies are so loved and wanted. 

I read somewhere that a donor baby will always be that couple's baby simply because it wouldn't exist without the incredible love and bond between that couple who decided to create it. 

My DH thinks DNA is overrated :haha: he says it's the way you treat that child and bring them up that makes them yours; not whether they have your genes. Just look at all the amazing step-fathers out there who love kids that aren't tied to them by DNA. 

There is a really great donor website that has helped me come to terms with things a bit better. I will look for link when I'm on PC. There are lots of accounts of couples and their feelings at all stages and also really honest, touching accounts of those conceived by donor sperm or egg. 

I'm sorry you're feeling like this, but I do believe it's entirely normal and something all ladies go through prior to going ahead with a donor. With this diagnosis I have come to realise that as much as you think you've prepared yourself for something, when the next step becomes clear you realise you were barely prepared at all. :hugs:


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## Deb111

So sorry to read you're struggling so much Wibble - I think it's only natural - we tell ourselves it's an option we can deal with but when we are faced with it in reality, it's very different.

Will post more later but just wanted to send you a big hug :hug:


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## MissAma

Same here. Not the posting but the sorry and the big big hug and strength vibes your way.


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## silverbell

https://www.donor-conception-network.org/index.htm

There you go. 

At the end of the day it's a massive decision and you're only human to be questioning things. :hugs:


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## snd80

WW- I completely feel you! I have been thinking the same things too here lately. But I am one to always look ahead for the what if's instead of living for the now. At first when we found all this out and hubby REFUSED to go to the dr., I started prepping myself for donor. I would suggest picking up a copy of the book "Helping the Stork". At first it was a lot to take in, but it really gets you thinking about what is to come if/when the child finds out it's "creation"... things I would have never thought about before... but in situations like this we can't help but to think of the "what if's"... It was written by a couple with male infertility just like us and their trials and tribulations through all this, along with other stories of other couples. Very helpful!!! I would be glad to send you my copy if you like! Hope you get to feeling better. All the girls on here really know how to get us back on our feet after a fall! :hugs:


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## silverbell

Your last sentence is so true, snd. :thumbup:

The ladies on here are amazing. It's so comforting to be in touch with so many other ladies going through the same thing. I know this journey can take you down a few different routes and emotions, but there's always someone here who knows precisely how you feel and/or is going/has gone down the same route. It's a great thread and my sincere thanks to Deb for creating it so we can all provide shoulders for each other to cry on and invaluable support, advice and friendship.


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Wibble Wobble,

Wanted to send you a big hug!!!! I think you're feelings are perfectly normal. You have really been through it recently, remember we all need time to greive for the situation we are in.

I can echo what the others have said. My dad adopted my elder brother because his dad was not interested. I can say honestly my dad loves all of us euqally and if the truth be known his parents (so not my brother's 'bio' grandparents) have a really really special bond with him becasue he is their first grandchild!

Whichever route you take your child will be loved because you have both made a committment to raising a child and giving it all the love it deserves.  Your child will be just like you and DH because you will have raised it and loved it!

I hope this helps. Take it easy!!! xxx


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## Deb111

I wish hubby could understand the reassuring advice you've all given about not being biologically theirs. I think he underestimates himself when he says he won't discuss it because he couldn't deal with it. I've not yet read or heard about any couples where this has been the case. 

I actually have a real life friend who knows someone who used donor sperm. Apparently although her husband agreed to it, he was very withdrawn and not involved in much of the pregnancy but the minute he saw the baby on the scan, he was smitten and just adored him. I'm sure others on here who have been through it will say the same.

Hope you're feeling a bit better wibble and hope your appt today went well snd xx


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## Deb111

Check out this link girls - I was recommended pomegranate juice to help with implantation, but look what I found whilst researching it - worth a try but has to be the stuff NOT from concentrate

https://www.naturalnews.com/025359_juice_sperm_pomegranate.html


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## snd80

You know I never really thought about it this way til now, but in some sense I _am_ a donor child too! My bio-mother got pg w/ me on her 15th b'day and my bio-father flaked out and ran off (he was only 17) and my grandparents wound up raising me as if I was their own. Sure they were mad b/c of the circumstances, but I have always been told the minute I was born my grandfather ("Daddy" to me) was smitten and I was his "baby girl" til the day he died. They never hid the truth from me and I always knew who was who in my life. I always called my bio-father "the donor" (ironically) and had hard feelings towards him b/c of what he did back then, only to find and meet him when I was 25 and we now have a great relationship! (Thanks to my "mother" [grandmother] reminding me of all this on the phone earlier). So basically not _all_ donor children, concieved one way or another, are "doomed". It is all in who and how they are raised. And I think I turned out pretty swell! :flower:

PS- Appt is at 3 today! Got my boxing gloves on and ready! :haha:


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## Deb111

Lovely story snd :thumbup:



snd80 said:


> PS- Appt is at 3 today! Got my boxing gloves on and ready! :haha:

You go girl!!!! :happydance:


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## Sar187

Wibble-So sorry you are having a tough time right now. I think all the other ladies are right though that we all go through these feelings. When I was considering this as an option I had all the same feelings and thoughts you are. In our case DH and I ended up concluding that if it came down to it we would prefer to adopt an embryo rather than using donor sperm. This is just what we were more comfortable with. It is a very hard and very personal decision. Hugs to you!

Deb-You mentioned things that help implantation. I'm going to list a few links about pineapple. Apparently eating the core is supposed to help with implantion. However the rest of the pineapple is not good during this time so just the core. Someone from another site I'm on posted these. 

https://www.amandabears.com/pineapple-core-for-implantation.html
https://ezinearticles.com/?IVF-Implantation-Help-With-Food&id=4083098
https://ivf.ca/forums/topic/20995-walnut-and-pineapples-for-implantation/
https://thepregnancycentral.com/201...tion-three-foods-that-can-help/#axzz1Ze3Es5GW


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## wibble wobble

Hi that'd be great if you could send me the book,it'd be much appreichiated


snd80 said:


> WW- I completely feel you! I have been thinking the same things too here lately. But I am one to always look ahead for the what if's instead of living for the now. At first when we found all this out and hubby REFUSED to go to the dr., I started prepping myself for donor. I would suggest picking up a copy of the book "Helping the Stork". At first it was a lot to take in, but it really gets you thinking about what is to come if/when the child finds out it's "creation"... things I would have never thought about before... but in situations like this we can't help but to think of the "what if's"... It was written by a couple with male infertility just like us and their trials and tribulations through all this, along with other stories of other couples. Very helpful!!! I would be glad to send you my copy if you like! Hope you get to feeling better. All the girls on here really know how to get us back on our feet after a fall! :hugs:


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## Deb111

Many thanks for those links sar. How are you doing? xx


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## KB38

I've been feeling pretty much the same way as you Wibble for a while now :flower:

I keep telling myself that it is a normal way to feel and in reality, as long as we are comfortable with the decision that we've made, it'll all be fine BUT then I see something negative and for some reason, its easier for me to believe the bad than the good. 

For eg) I was in the newsagent the other day and I read an article in the Woman's Weekly (I picked it up because I saw the story on the front cover) which was about how donor children feel about their origins and it was awful!!! They were all entirely divorced from their families now and harboured such resentment. I locked myself into the nearest public toilet and cried for about half an hour. I'm sure I must have looked like a nightmare when I went back to work :dohh:

I really like the way you're thinking about it Silverbell. I'm going to print out that paragraph in your post and stick it in my purse to read if you don't mind.


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## silverbell

Of course it's ok and I hope it helps. 

You have to remember that magazines are often very one-sided. I have read quite a bit about donor conceived children and the only ones I have personally read about that have deep seated issues with their parents about it are those children who aren't told how they came about from an early age. There is a sweet little book for kids to explain it in simple terms (ie. Mommy and Daddy wanted a baby but it didn't work, so a very kind stranger helped because you were wanted so much ... ). 

I've read that you should be completely open with the child and close family from day 1. Because then it's normal, nothing is hidden and it doesn't seem like there's anything to be ashamed of. It seems to be the children that aren't told at all and find out by accident or those that are told late on (teens onwards) that have - understandably - issues with it. 

I would be interested to know if the people in that magazine had known from a very young age or not. 

Try not to pay attention to articles like that, KB. It's just upsetting and isn't an accurate reflection of how most donor children feel. Definitely check out the website I posted the link for yesterday, as there are honest statements from donor conceived children. 

:hugs:


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## Sar187

KB38-I agree with Silverbell in that those magazines tend to like the stories that have "shock value" to them. They don't want the stories about how it turned out great, nothing went wrong, and everything was good. So even when the bad stories make up the minority thats what they tell. 

Deb-feeling pretty good, just had a few weird encounters with my taste buds lately. Perfectly good things have started tasting moldy occasionally.

So I decided to take a test yesterday to make sure the trigger shot was out of my system and got the expected definite BFN. I was going to wait until tomorrow to take another one but decided I might as well take one today completely expecting a negative result. Surprisingly I got a faint but definitely there BFP! However, I am now wondering whether I just missed a line on yesterdays test so won't really belive it until I see that line getting darker. In the mean time I'm cautiously optimistic.


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## snd80

Sar.... :happydance: I BELIEVE it!!!!


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## snd80

snd80 said:


> PS- Appt is at 3 today! Got my boxing gloves on and ready! :haha:

Ok, so I talked a good game, but wound up staring at the wall stone faced trying not to let my eggshell face break apart as dr. point blankly told us there was no hope or meds to "fix" hubby, that only IVF was an option, and then that is an iffy option due to hubby's health problems. So he suggested donor insemination or adoption. I got up and walked out, wrote the lady a check for $28 for nothing but bad news, and went outside and waited for hubby to come out. AS soon as we got in the car, he told me to get the ball rolling for donor, that there was no since wasting anymore time, that it is what it is. I told him I didn't want him to resent me or the baby, to which he replied that his grandparents raise him as well and they were mom and dad to him, and that this situation would be no different to him as his own was. Glad _he's_ ok with it as I am still a wreck and cried myself to sleep last night. I guess I knew all along what the outcome was gonna be, but it took hearing it from a professional to make it "real"... That the little curly lipped, gap toothed child (like my hubby) we wanted *so* bad would never be. And that to me is just plain sad! So today I will call my dr. and then Jackson to see what we do from here.


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## silverbell

Sar187 said:


> So I decided to take a test yesterday to make sure the trigger shot was out of my system and got the expected definite BFN. I was going to wait until tomorrow to take another one but decided I might as well take one today completely expecting a negative result. Surprisingly I got a faint but definitely there BFP! However, I am now wondering whether I just missed a line on yesterdays test so won't really belive it until I see that line getting darker. In the mean time I'm cautiously optimistic.

OMG Sar! I really hope it's a positive :happydance: :dust: :dust: :dust: Will you be testing again tomorrow?


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Ok, so I talked a good game, but wound up staring at the wall stone faced trying not to let my eggshell face break apart as dr. point blankly told us there was no hope or meds to "fix" hubby, that only IVF was an option, and then that is an iffy option due to hubby's health problems. So he suggested donor insemination or adoption. I got up and walked out, wrote the lady a check for $28 for nothing but bad news, and went outside and waited for hubby to come out. AS soon as we got in the car, he told me to get the ball rolling for donor, that there was no since wasting anymore time, that it is what it is. I told him I didn't want him to resent me or the baby, to which he replied that his grandparents raise him as well and they were mom and dad to him, and that this situation would be no different to him as his own was. Glad _he's_ ok with it as I am still a wreck and cried myself to sleep last night. I guess I knew all along what the outcome was gonna be, but it took hearing it from a professional to make it "real"... That the little curly lipped, gap toothed child (like my hubby) we wanted *so* bad would never be. And that to me is just plain sad! So today I will call my dr. and then Jackson to see what we do from here.

:hugs: I'm so sorry. I really feel so sad for you. It's great that your hubby is so up for the next stage, but of course you both have to be on the same page at the same time.

Is there really no chance at all of them doing a biopsy to find out for sure? I know that when DH and I were at the start of this diagnosis we both said we'd have to get him to have that biopsy in order for us to move onto an alternative way of getting our family. We were prepared to pay privately for that, if need be. I know things are different in the US, but is there not a specialist in TESE/microTESE that you could visit to see what they think? I know Dr Schlegel will give brief advice by email as to whether there's a chance of successful sperm retrieval or not and I think there are a few others in the US that give free advice (which I think were mentioned yesterday or the day before).

I just wonder if perhaps you would need to know 10000% before you feel more able to face donor sperm? I know that's how both my DH and I felt and still feel.

Sending you lots of :hugs:


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## snd80

I'm sure they could, but I just can't afford to or waste anymore time on him. I know that sounds horrible, but we have to think of what is financially sound for us that will work for sure. I've got a call into my dr. to see if he thinks I am ready (body and cycle wise) and how to get referred for the next step and also to see if there are anywhere closer to us than Jackson. We shall see. I am ready too. It was my original plan to begin with 6 months ago, I just had to re-adjust after getting false hopes.


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> I'm sure they could, but I just can't afford to or waste anymore time on him. I know that sounds horrible, but we have to think of what is financially sound for us that will work for sure. I've got a call into my dr. to see if he thinks I am ready (body and cycle wise) and how to get referred for the next step and also to see if there are anywhere closer to us than Jackson. We shall see. I am ready too. It was my original plan to begin with 6 months ago, I just had to re-adjust after getting false hopes.

That's fair enough then, snd :hugs: I hope you get an answer soon so you know what the next step is. Sorry it wasn't better news today.


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## Deb111

Snd - I'm sorry it wasn't better news, but glad you are moving on.

Sar - very excited for you and keeping everything crossed xx


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## Sar187

Silverbell-I will be testing again tomorrow. Hoping to see that line getting a little darker :). 

Snd-So sorry you didn't get better news today. Really hoping things work out for you!

Deb-How are things going for your cycle?

Hope everyone else is doing well!


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## Deb111

*Well this morning's news ... when I felt quite happy with things *right hand side - 2 follies - 17.5mm and 10mm
left hand side - 3 follies - 13.5mm, 10mm and 1 less than 10mm

No free fluid

Endometrium 7.5mm

He was very pleased with lining and 5 follies was about all we could expect

bit worried aboutt timing now as he thinks 19th may be too far ahead for EC, but I think the lister will slow down my meds to compensate 

*And then copy of an email I've sent to my specialist at London clinic after call from their IVF nurses - not feeling very happy now*

"Dear Mr Nicopoullos,

I just wanted to run a couple of concerns about my ICSI cycle past you. As you are aware, we are having a synchronous ISCI / microTESE cycle. 
When I initially spoke to the nurses about the dates for my medications, I was told to start the menopur injections on 6th October and was assured that this would be fine for egg collection being after 17th / 18th as Mr Ramsay is not available on those 2 days for Terry's microTESE. I was also reassured that if necessary my menopur could be reduced slightly so that I could coast if necessary. I think it was a nurse called Donna that I spoke to.

Today I have had a scan at MFS and received a call from the Lister IVF nurses (I think her name was Kita) telling me to increase my 375 dose to 450 dose for the next 2 days. I queried this as I was worried that it might bring egg collection forward too early and had a phonecall back to tell me, under the circumstances, to stay on 375 for the next 2 days and to see what Friday's scan showed. I was then told, again, that egg collection will then most likely be from Monday onwards and again, I pointed out that Monday or Tuesday are no good for our synchronous cycle. I was made to feel that coasting is not an option.

I am really concerned that I was incorrectly told to increase my medication, without there seeming to be an awareness of the synchronous microTESE and even more concerned that egg collection might end up being too early based on what I was told today. I was also told that "hopefully, the follicles wont have been lost by then."

It also seems that I have been taking my menopur at the wrong time. I had been told to reduce my nasal spray to one sniff in the morning and to add the menopur and then one sniff 8 hours later. It is only today that I have been told I should have been taking it after 7pm and not in the morning. This has never been mentioned to me and I cannot see any mention of it in the literature I have been given. 

I am sure you understand our concerns, afterall it has taken us over 2 years to get to this stage and a lot of money!

I would be grateful of your thoughts regarding the timing of my cycle and any advice you can offer as we are quite anxious about this.

Many thanks"


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## Sar187

Deb-I am frustrated for you right now! It sounds like they really have not coordinated as well as they should have or are not taking the time to properly look into your case. 

I'm not familiar with the common protocol for IVF cycles used in the UK so don't know much about the nasal spray and while I know we do use menopur here in the US I am not familiar with that protocol.

According to the information I have though follicles tend to grow about 1-2mm/day so I would think your 13.5mm and smaller follies would have a very good chance of being perfect for Retrieval after the 17th/18th. I would be a bit worried about losing the 17.5mm one if it ends up having an egg that is too "mature". Over here they usually like follies between 18-22mm at retrieval for optimum egg maturity. 

I really hope they didn't screw something up and that this cycle can work for you!


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## Deb111

I think I just have to accept that I could lose the bigger one. The Dr who scanned me at MFS said that they wouldn't go in aiming for that one, as the others wouldn't be ready, so it makes sense to aim for the other 4 and hope we get the bonus of the bigger one.

Thanks for the info about growth rate xx


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## Sar187

I had 1 follicle that was 26mm 3 days before retrieval, not sure what its final size was or if they collected an egg from it and whether it was good. I do know that out of the 14 eggs they collected from me 13 were usable. 

4 is still a lot better than nothing hopefully you will get some good quality eggs :).


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## MissAma

Deb they almost always lose the bigger one. With that in mind.... it does sound uncoordinated, have they answered? But good crop girl!

Sar - :happydance: cautiously very happy for you!

Snd80 - you two sound exactly like we sounded after we got diagnosed and told to adopt, the exact same conversation and I even posted on a forum saying I had months to consider this, donor it is but for me that would have been a monstrous mistake as I really wasn't ready to give up the fight for a baby of our own and after a bunch more soul searching we embarked on the TESE route. I'm not saying the same will happen to you or that I made the wiser choice -our credit score sure doesn't think so!- but I am just saying you sound like I was, still emotional and confused and if that is the case then you should take more time to think it through? :hugs:


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## snd80

Some good news for me, I gotta call from my dr. this morning giving me the green light to go forward. Said my bloods from July looked great and as far as he could tell I was good to go and that my weight shouldn't be an issue b/c my cycles are regular and I do ov. He asked who I was talking to in Jackson and told me I made a great choice and keep him updated, to which I told him hopefully I would be seeing him again soon. But....

Hubby finally admitted this morning he is having a hard time w/ everything, as I knew and can understand, so I told him we would wait until he was ready for sure. I told him we could go the IVF route instead, but as he pointed out with his dialysis schedual, it would be hard for him to be there for everything that needs to be done. So until he is ready for whatever we shall stay in limbo. Which is fine with me cause that gives me even more time to lose more weight. He said he has the middle names picked out, that if it couldn't be "his", he at least wanted it to have a piece of him with his middle name; Allen for a boy or Alaina for a girl. IDK how I'm buying the girls name as I have had names picked out for the past 10 years, and not sure I am ready to surrender my girls name yet! LOL! I'll have to think on that one...

Hope everyone is well this morning! =)


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## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Deb they almost always lose the bigger one. With that in mind.... it does sound uncoordinated, have they answered? But good crop girl!


Still heard nothing from the Lister. My consultant's automated email reply said he'd reply within 2 days. Decided it might be a good idea to try to arrange a phone consultation with him (or even another consultant) tomorrow, after I've had my next scan. It might cost us, but for the sake of a few quid; I'd rather not risk the cycle.

So I phoned his secretary - 5 times - no answer, no option to leave message 

Phoned the appts line - several times - no answer 

Not a happy bunny! Hopefully I will get some answers from them tomorrow and will also ask at MFS - maybe they can at least give me some reassurance about delaying a long protocol by a day or 2


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## MissAma

Snd - good stuff, glad to hear you guys are taking it slow. For the record, it is only ONCE in the entire ICSI process when they are needed there, when they -pardon my French- cut their neder regions all the other times -2-3 scans, an initial meeting, Egg Retrival and Embryo Transfer- it is only you they need. Would it be nice if he were there? Sure but I know many women who went alone to all appointments for various reasons or with a friend or family member and they were ok. Just sayin' :)

Deb - this is ridiculous! Nothing I hate more than medical professionals not keeping their word when they know everything is nerve wrecking to us at these stages! WTF! If I were you I would probably express very clearly how disappointed I am so that you scare them into action, at the end of the day you are a paying customer not only a patient! Hope they answer very soon. Meanwhile please try and calm down, while I don't think PMA makes a lick of a difference, stress does and while you can't eliminate it all trying hard to stay calm may help? I'd be boiling if I were in your shoes, I am not as level headed as you are!

Sar - hope you have great news for us.


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## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Deb - this is ridiculous! Nothing I hate more than medical professionals not keeping their word when they know everything is nerve wrecking to us at these stages! WTF! If I were you I would probably express very clearly how disappointed I am so that you scare them into action, at the end of the day you are a paying customer not only a patient! Hope they answer very soon. Meanwhile please try and calm down, while I don't think PMA makes a lick of a difference, stress does and while you can't eliminate it all trying hard to stay calm may help? I'd be boiling if I were in your shoes, I am not as level headed as you are!

Thanks MissAma - I'm ok - I guess it helps knowing I can talk to the other clinic about it when I go for my scan tomorrow. I'm not impressed! and I'm not stressed, just worried. I will be pointing out that I'm not happy about the incorrect advice I was given about increasing my meds when we are paying £11K for this 'synchronous cycle' - I will make sure I stay calm though :winkwink:


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## silverbell

That's fab, snd, that you've both come to an agreement. A bit of time to digest and think about things is a great idea. 

Deb I am livid for you! I hope you get some answers soon.


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## Sar187

SND-Glad you got some good news and also that you and your dh have come to an agreement about proceeding. I think its good that you take some time to come to terms with everything.

Deb-Hoping you get some answers soon.

AFM-yesterday's test was actually lighter than the 2 I took on Wednesday, to the point where I wasn't sure If I was seeing a line or it was my imagination. Today's test was a definite BFN. Hoping that Wednesday was still trigger and I missed a line on tuesday's test. I'm not giving up hope until my beta results on monday!


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## snd80

Any news Sar?


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## steffa

:coffee:
Hi to all of you. 2 days ago we got the SA results that we were not expecting...azoospermia (1 immobile sperm found). I am 33 and my DH is 37 and we have been ttc since February. I always thought it was me and my short-ish luteal phase and had just bought pre-seed. But as it turns out...
So it was a big shock and we slowly walked home from docs office in silence, not knowing what to think. I should explain that we live in Spain (DH is Spanish) and most things are done thru specialists. So we got the results from urologist. He didnt really explain anything, took a look at testicles and said they seem fine and this week blood testing will be done and probably the ultrasound aswell although he didnt think that would give us any news. 
We are calm. On Friday night (before googling anything!) we talked about adoption (we had actually discussed this before any of this happened) and my DH surprised me by saying he wanted me to have a baby even if it wasnt him. So I guess our options are quite varied. After reading thru a lot of this thread I see that we need to be very patient and for the moment...we really don't have any idea whats going on and th road will be a long one. 
For the moment we are not telling anyone, I will tell my sister as they have the same problem but have not done anything about it. As donor sperm is an option for us we have decided never to tell anyone (except by sister) about the azoospermia. 
Sorry my intro is sooooo long, but there is so much to say!!
:shrug:


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## Deb111

Hi Steffa :flower:

Welcome - you will find loads of support here.

Wishing you every luck with your journey xx


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## wibble wobble

Hi Steffa welcome to thread. You've found a nice bunch of ladies full of loads of information and more importantly they are the most supportive bunch I know x


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## Deb111

So as of Friday's scan - Follicles are 18, 14, 12 on one side and 14, 10 and 1 less tha 10 on the other side ... yes! I now have 6 follicles and the lead one doesn't seem to have grown too quickly either.

Lining is 9.4mm 

Next scan tomorrow and EC aimed for Thursday :argh:


----------



## steffa

Thanks a lot girls, to be honest I have so much to learn and we have a long journey ahead of us as you all know. We had a nice weekend, we are feeling a strange sense of calm...I am especially compared to the previous months of mad TTC and charts and CM and whatnot!!I´m going to enjoy this newfound calm while it lasts. 
We have a good friend who is an acupuncturist and a chinese medicine consultant. Have any of you any experience with this?


----------



## KB38

steffa said:


> Thanks a lot girls, to be honest I have so much to learn and we have a long journey ahead of us as you all know. We had a nice weekend, we are feeling a strange sense of calm...I am especially compared to the previous months of mad TTC and charts and CM and whatnot!!I´m going to enjoy this newfound calm while it lasts.
> We have a good friend who is an acupuncturist and a chinese medicine consultant. Have any of you any experience with this?

Hi Steffa, my DH was diagnosed with azoospermia in May of this year. He had a TESA procedure in July and we were told he has sertoli cell syndrome. We have since explored every option other to no avail so we are trying acupuncture and chinese herbs. We aren't really expecting a result but it has given us something to do until we can retest DH in 6 months (his request not a medical opinion). 

I've read a lot about the benefits of acupuncture with IVF. So....every Thursday we both go to see our therapist. It is quite expensive for the herbs for DH but its really nice to both leave work on time and the accupuncture is soooo relaxing. We've been making it a bit of a 'date night' so we go out for dinner afterwards. As to whether it works, I have PCOS and always had a slightly short luteal phase. After almost 4 months of acupuncture my lp has consistently been 14 days which is picture perfect. It is also supposed to improve egg quality and quantity. We aren't testing DH until the 6 month mark because like I said, we aren't really expecting a result but we're using the time to get used to the idea of donor sperm too.

Like you, we haven't told anyone either. It was important to DH not to tell people until after we've had the second testing done but I have to say I'd recommend just being open. It's really hard keeping "a secret" and sometimes I'd really like a shoulder to cry on. I feel bad when DH seems to be doing ok and I'm having a "totally devastated moment" :flower:


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## REllen

Hi

My husband had azoospermia and he too ayurveda medical treatment and has sperms now. we need to do a ICSI now.

Please read my blog Azoospermia Cure to share my experience. :thumbup:

blog name : azoospermia-cure 

it is a google blog. i cannot enter the web address now. hope you guys will find it.


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Ladies,

I have manged to peep a little at people's progress over the weekend but have not wanted to write and run... so here goes:

Steffa: Welcome to a group that no one wants to be part of, but rest assured you will get so much support here. DH was diagnosed 5 weeks ago, we await blood results any time now to ascertain what is causing this issue. I completely understand what you mean about the calm. I have felt realtively calm about the whole but then at times it hits me like a bolt and I am heartbroken. Take your emotions as they come and be easy on yourself! When in doubt get on this forum, we are all here for each other!

Sar: I hope things are looking good everything croseed for you!

Deb111: It seems like it is going well for you too. I really admire the way you deal with this. Good for you for not sitting back and taking the rubbish that comes with the specialists. I think you give us all the courage to keep fighting for our hopes!!

Snd80: How are you feeling about it all? It seems you are more hopeful than last week. Sending you hugs!

As for me, waiting for the blood test results, I feel ok about getting them, but who knows once we have them. I am kind of glad that the end of the year is approaching, it seems next year (hopefully) one way or another will have my child, or at least well on the way to having one!

Be sure when we get the blood results I will be pestering you all for info, talking of which does anyone have any tips on questions to ask when we get our results? When we were diagnosed I really thought we would have to be dealing with low sperm count. I took my note book to write down results, but once we were told there were none I dazed out a bit. Can anyone suggest which results I should try and get, any breakdowns etc??


Hugs to every one else!


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## snd80

Welcome Steffa! Sorry to see you here, but we have all been where you are right now and all have open "ears" to listen to anytime! Deb is such an awesome lady to have started this thread for us and is very knowlegable, and might I add, an expert when it comes to this! And we can't thank her enough! :hugs:

AFM- I am in limbo land right now... hubby finally looked over potential donor profiles I printed out over the weekend and made a "maybe" pile to look into. Now we have to officially sign up and pay the $165 fee to look at pictures to match one as closely as we can to him. I am going to try to make my initial appt for Jackson the week of Thanksgiving while my aunt will be in town so she can go with me. And hopefully Jackson can make some arrangements to work w/ my local gyno to do all the monitoring for them so I won't have to be traveling back and forth so much. (FINGERS CROSSED for that one!!!) Really hoping to have my first IUI in Dec! Or maybe I am just daydreaming.... IDK! But a Christmas BFP would be A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!!!!

Hope everyone else is doing well too! =)


----------



## MoBaby

Deb: SOOO EXCITING!!! :) Steffa: Welcome to the thread :) Its really helpful! 

UPDATE: DH genetic testing normal... urologists gave us the green light to contiue! I start stim cycle on 10/27!!! :) egg collection scheduled for around nov 7th :) 

snd: thats exciting you are looking at profiles!! cant wait for your update.


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## Pamplemousse

MoBaby said:


> Deb: SOOO EXCITING!!! :) Steffa: Welcome to the thread :) Its really helpful!
> 
> UPDATE: DH genetic testing normal... urologists gave us the green light to contiue! I start stim cycle on 10/27!!! :) egg collection scheduled for around nov 7th :)
> 
> snd: thats exciting you are looking at profiles!! cant wait for your update.


Great news MoBaby!!!!


----------



## steffa

HI all, hubby went for bloods test today and on Friday he is having ultrasound. So I guess we will visit urologist next week. Meanwhile this weekend I will be ovulating, seems like maybe clutching at straws but for the moment we´re gonna keep trying, you never know, well at least at the moment we don't know!


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## snd80

Yay Deb and MoBaby!!!! Great stuff happening!!!! :hugs:


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## Sar187

Steffa-Welcome to the group. There is a great group of women here!

Snd-Sounds like things are really moving along now for you!

Deb-your follies seem great. I hope everything continues to go well for you!

pamplemousse-I hope blood results come back with some decent news.

Mobaby-So exciting! I hope the cycle goes well for you!

AFM-Yesterdays beta results were negative. The clinic can get us on Decembers cycle, but right now we are trying to figure out where the money will be coming from. On the bright side if we do decide to do another cycle in December most of our insurance out of pocket maxes are met already so insurance should pay a decent chunk of the portions of the cycle that aren't technically classified as "Infertility". I really don't know what I want to do at this point. On the one hand I really want to jump right back in to another cycle. on the other hand, I really don't know If I am ready emotionally and physically to handle another cycle just yet. I have to decide soon as my period arrived today and they need to get me on birth control if I'm going to do the december cycle.


----------



## Deb111

You girls are so sweet thanks :cry: - must be the hormones! :haha: I'm just glad we all have somewhere where we can talk to people who truly understand without us even having to explain the different feelings we go through.

Sar - I'm so sorry hun. Hope you are both doing as well as can be expected :hugs:

AFM - yesterday's scan results - I now have 8 follicles!! :happydance: Although one will definitely be too small, as may a couple of the others, but still, the more the better. So they were 21.5, 20.5, 17.5, 17, 15.5, 13.5, 13 and 1 less than 10 - lining was 10mm and my consultant is really pleased with how it's all going. 

So ..... I trigger at 10pm tonight (1 hour's time) and we're off to Chelsea tomorrow, stopping overnight and then at the clinic for 6.45am Thurs morning! :argh:


----------



## steffa

Best of luck Deb, I really don't understand much of what you all say (the terminology) and to be honest I am in no rush to find out :nope:
But best of luck and stay positive! Hugs


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## snd80

Sar- So sorry hun! Great BIG :hugs:!!!!


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## Sar187

Deb-So glad to hear you have more follies and are triggering. Praying everything goes well for both of you!


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## Pamplemousse

Sar: So sorry for you. I am sending you lots of hugs!!! 

Deb111: Good luck with today, will be thinking of you!

AFM: We have left two messages with the FS in order to find out if our blood test results are back. Guess what? Not a reply yet. I am thinking I may have to go into stalking mood soon. I just want to know what is causing the problem so we can get on a deal with it. Better the devil you know and all that! Grrr!!!!


----------



## KB38

Good luck Deb111, I have everything crossed for you that it is almost "your" month xx

I am so sorry to hear your news Sar. Keep positive. Your time will come soon, be it in December or next year. 

snd, I'm so happy to hear you're sounding so much more positive than you were a few weeks ago!

AFM, I'm finally starting to feel more normal again. I only went once, but the counselling helped sooo much. Thank you Silverbell. I owe you big time. DH is going through a bit of a hard time with everything - it seems like we're never on the one page at the one time but I've convinced him to go to the counsellor too so hopefully that helps. I've set a goal to lose 20kgs (sensibly) to get me to a healthy weight for IVF so I'm concentrating on that now. Day 4 and I haven't faltered once (except that I had an extra coffee today without even thinking about it - I'm trying to cut back to one a day. Oh well. It's a step in the right direction, I suppose


----------



## Pamplemousse

KB38 said:


> Good luck Deb111, I have everything crossed for you that it is almost "your" month xx
> 
> I am so sorry to hear your news Sar. Keep positive. Your time will come soon, be it in December or next year.
> 
> snd, I'm so happy to hear you're sounding so much more positive than you were a few weeks ago!
> 
> AFM, I'm finally starting to feel more normal again. I only went once, but the counselling helped sooo much. Thank you Silverbell. I owe you big time. DH is going through a bit of a hard time with everything - it seems like we're never on the one page at the one time but I've convinced him to go to the counsellor too so hopefully that helps. I've set a goal to lose 20kgs (sensibly) to get me to a healthy weight for IVF so I'm concentrating on that now. Day 4 and I haven't faltered once (except that I had an extra coffee today without even thinking about it - I'm trying to cut back to one a day. Oh well. It's a step in the right direction, I suppose

Good to hear you are feeling better about things and are looking forward! You go girl!:hugs:


----------



## MissAma

Saffa - Welcome! Our first ICSI cycle with TESE for Azospermia was at the Eugin clinic in Barcelona and that urologist seemed to know his way around a set of balls and a scalpel! :rofl: in other words, I am sure you'll find specialists if you decide to go down this route.

Sar - oh noes.... I had my fingers tightly crossed for you babes! Let us know what you decide about the next cycle, if it were me I'd jump right into it but maybe you're wiser and more patient!

Deb - you go mother hen!!!! That's one impressive eggy crop! Don't forget not all will be mature enough so aim very low tomorrow to be pleasantly surprised. OMG you are currently still housing an eggy which will be 50% of the baby you will receive back in a few days, how amazing is that? :hug:

AFM - we had a chemical I believe. -Not the first one, it seems our Azoo is potentially obstructive and sometimes a pathetic little guy escapes but they are immature and never seem to make it past day 3 which is key for the development of embryos with sperm issues- so we will be careful not to repeat this sad episode and let science and a beautiful blasto be our next step in the Azo saga. About which there are some good news: DH got his tax rebate approved by the employer and if I do too then we will be paying only 60-70% of the next cycle.


----------



## Pamplemousse

MissAma said:


> Saffa - Welcome! Our first ICSI cycle with TESE for Azospermia was at the Eugin clinic in Barcelona and that urologist seemed to know his way around a set of balls and a scalpel! :rofl: in other words, I am sure you'll find specialists if you decide to go down this route.
> 
> Sar - oh noes.... I had my fingers tightly crossed for you babes! Let us know what you decide about the next cycle, if it were me I'd jump right into it but maybe you're wiser and more patient!
> 
> Deb - you go mother hen!!!! That's one impressive eggy crop! Don't forget not all will be mature enough so aim very low tomorrow to be pleasantly surprised. OMG you are currently still housing an eggy which will be 50% of the baby you will receive back in a few days, how amazing is that? :hug:
> 
> AFM - we had a chemical I believe. -Not the first one, it seems our Azoo is potentially obstructive and sometimes a pathetic little guy escapes but they are immature and never seem to make it past day 3 which is key for the development of embryos with sperm issues- so we will be careful not to repeat this sad episode and let science and a beautiful blasto be our next step in the Azo saga. About which there are some good news: DH got his tax rebate approved by the employer and if I do too then we will be paying only 60-70% of the next cycle.


Sorry to hear about your chemical. Before we were diagnosed I had what Dr's believed was a chemical. After diagnosis I was confused as to how I could have 'conceived' if DH has zero sperm. It never occurred to me that some could slip through. I think other than finding out about the diagnosis itself the chemical was the most heartbreaking thing I had been through. To test postive and then see the:witch: just seemed the cruelest of tricks Mother Nature could play.

I really hope you are doing ok now. Onwards and upwards :hugs:


----------



## Sar187

Thank you all so much.

Missama-I am anything but patient. Patience is something I don't have. Sorry to hear about the chemical pregnancy.

I am fairly certain we are going to try another cycle in December. DH's parents have offered to help financially, and while I hope to afford it on our own it helps to know the offer is there. 

Right now I am just hoping we can get some information on friday at our consult with the Dr.

I am not sure what he will suggest to make this cycle more likely to work than the previous one. While I know it is going to be hard on me emotionally and physically I feel like I would rather go through it again than wait knowing there is really no hope of us getting pregnant on our own. Just glad that DH is done with his part and we have 6 vials of frozen sperm.


----------



## steffa

MissAma said:


> Saffa - Welcome! Our first ICSI cycle with TESE for Azospermia was at the Eugin clinic in Barcelona and that urologist seemed to know his way around a set of balls and a scalpel! :rofl: in other words, I am sure you'll find specialists if you decide to go down this route.

Hey, thanks a lot, out of interest, how much did it cost in Spain??


----------



## MissAma

Oh Gods I was hoping you wouldn't ask :) I think the cycle in itself was "only" 7000 Euros but between the multiple trips and the things we lost at work to make it happen it got us a good 20k in the financial hole and we're still not back on track. BUT that is our horror story scenario, it would be around 3-4000 for one pop for locals I would presume!

Pampelmousse - it is why I wish they told not only us but anyone with sperm issues "wait for blasto". The success rate with blastos for sperm issues is THROUGH THE ROOF and that is because of day 3/4 division issues with our embryos and consequently chemicals for the same reasons why the magic happened outside of a Petri dish.

Sar - considering the above that is what I would suggest - asking if they would consider going for blasto.

Off to check on Deb! Thinking of her today.


----------



## Pamplemousse

Hi Ladies,

Know it sounds a bit daft but does anybody else feel a bit down when they see all the Christmas stuff entering the shops? I went into John Lewis yesterday and saw xmas trees, stockings, loads of lovely festive bits and bobs. I love xmas, I really believe it is a time for children and the cute stuff has made me as broody as hell. I want to be hanging a stocking up for my children and I want to be making paperchains and gingerbread with them and my dream just seems like it is so out of reach.

I think waiting for blood test results is starting to get to me. Having a bit of a down day today.
:cry:


----------



## Sar187

MissAma-The reason they did a 3 day transfer this time is because those 2 embryos were the only ones that were going to make it and my doc believes that in that case it is better to get them back into their natural environment where he believes they have a better chance of survival. If we had more good quality embryos to work with he would have waited for a day 5 blasto transfer. 

Pamplemousse-Sorry to hear you are feeling so down. It is hard seeing all the things we could do with our children and feeling like it is so out of reach for us. Christmas is honestly one of my least favorite holidays because it has become so commercialized but for me Halloween is hard. It has always been one of my favorite holidays and I can't wait until I can help my children carve pumpkins and pick out and make a costume. I hope your wait goes fast for your blood results, waiting sucks!


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## Deb111

Copied from my journal - apologies!

Hi girls - we're back. Sorry was unable to get on internet anywhere whilst we were away.

Thanks for all your lovely, supportive messages!

So, I am quite weary so just a quick update and then will update more in the morning

All went VERY smoothly

They got 8 eggs from me and 7 are definitely mature and the 8th may be 

Didn't get as much sperm from Terry as we hoped (and in fact it seems a bit of a mircale that the random biopsy on the NHS managed to find 3!! They found 5 motile and 2 twitching within 20 mins - There were others - no idea how many, but they weren't moving and she said it's impossible to tell if they're alive or not. Anyway, it turns out they've got enough to fertilise me eggs and Terry's not sure if they said they've got the same twice over again to freeze or 3 times over again to freeze. It's still very low numbers, but they only needed 8 decent ones for my eggs today.

Everyone we spoke to from the nurses, anesthetist, urologist, embroyologist are really pleased and very happy with the results so far. Apparently even the injecting of the sperm into the eggs was going really well 

Terry was quite sick once after he had a bit of lunch, but he felt heaps better after that.

Neither of us have had one second of pain and Terry has just sat down here for half an hour before going up to bed.

Like I say, I will update a bit more tomorrow, if only for my interest when looking back

So ... fertilisation report by 12pm tomorrow.


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## Sar187

Deb-8 eggs is great! So happy they were able to at least get enough to fertilize and some to freeze. Maybe not what you hoped for but definitely better than none! Praying you get a good fertilization report tomorrow! I can't wait to hear!


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## Deb111

Thanks sar :hugs:

Hope you're doing ok hun xx


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## cosita

Hi guys, 
I actually joined the forum a week ago but my name is identifiable so I just started a new account, dont know how wrong that might be! Anyway, previously steffa (someone would want to really read all of this threadat length to find me). 
So the bloods came back and all within limits, although testosterone although within in limits in heading towards low. Ultrasound on Monday so we&#314;l have to see what happens with that. What exactly does the bloodwork indicate anyway? Im sorry Ive tried to go back thru the thread but I cant find anything and dont have time to read it all. 
Fingers crossed for Deb!


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## Pamplemousse

Deb111: Great news!!! Really hopeful for you. Exciting times ahead!

Corsita: I understand that the blood tests are taken in order to determine whether the azoospermia is caused by an obstructive or a non-obstructive factor. So, whether lack of sperm is due to something blocking the sperm coming through in a physical way, or whether there is genetic issue which mean less or no sperm is produced. Anyway, that is what we were told the blood test was for. But I am no expert!!! My understanding maybe incorrect, I am new to all this and learning the ropes!

The main thing to remember is that anything is possible, yes, a longer process than you probably imagined, but not impossible! 


AFM: Feel lots better today, having a day out with my mum, looking forward to that!


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## Deb111

Hi girls - will try to catch up with all your news later.

As for us - both slept well and still no pain for either of us - in fact hubby has slept on his stomach most of the night! Amazing when you think what he's had done!

Cosita - Pamplemousse has pretty much covered it with the bloods. If they are normal - especially the FSH and LH - it suggests there is a blockage, but internally, everything is running normally. If the FSH is raised, it suggests that there is 'some' testicular failure and that body is raising it's FSH to deal with it and try to produce more (they are unable to tell exactly how much of the testicle is failing until doing SSR etc)

So less than 3 hours to go til fertility report :wacko:


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## snd80

Yay Deb! Those eggies and "boys" sound like some good news a brewing!!! :happydance: Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AFM-I made my initial appt. for Jackson Nov 21st.! My aunt/2nd mother is going with me, cause of course, she is funding this for us! I am SOOO excited!!! Still gotta make the final decision of which donor we are going to pick before then, but as hubby and I were talking about it the other night, he had a panic attack and we stopped the discussion for the time being. I guess it was info overload for all in one night... but even if we don't do the first cycle in Dec, that is ok w/ me. I'll live... I always do!

Hope everyone else is doing good! :flower:


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## silverbell

KB38 said:


> AFM, I'm finally starting to feel more normal again. I only went once, but the counselling helped sooo much. Thank you Silverbell. I owe you big time. DH is going through a bit of a hard time with everything - it seems like we're never on the one page at the one time but I've convinced him to go to the counsellor too so hopefully that helps. I've set a goal to lose 20kgs (sensibly) to get me to a healthy weight for IVF so I'm concentrating on that now. Day 4 and I haven't faltered once (except that I had an extra coffee today without even thinking about it - I'm trying to cut back to one a day. Oh well. It's a step in the right direction, I suppose

You're so welcome, KB, and I'm overjoyed that it helped you. I am so pleased :hugs:



Pamplemousse said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> Know it sounds a bit daft but does anybody else feel a bit down when they see all the Christmas stuff entering the shops? I went into John Lewis yesterday and saw xmas trees, stockings, loads of lovely festive bits and bobs. I love xmas, I really believe it is a time for children and the cute stuff has made me as broody as hell. I want to be hanging a stocking up for my children and I want to be making paperchains and gingerbread with them and my dream just seems like it is so out of reach.
> 
> I think waiting for blood test results is starting to get to me. Having a bit of a down day today.
> :cry:

It's happening to me a lot as this is the first Christmas knowing we're dealing with what we're dealing with. So it's tough seeing all the Christmassy stuff. Christmas is my most favourite time of the year and I get so excited, but I honestly thought I'd have a little one or be pregnant by now, so it's tough. You're not alone.



snd80 said:


> AFM-I made my initial appt. for Jackson Nov 21st.! My aunt/2nd mother is going with me, cause of course, she is funding this for us! I am SOOO excited!!! Still gotta make the final decision of which donor we are going to pick before then, but as hubby and I were talking about it the other night, he had a panic attack and we stopped the discussion for the time being. I guess it was info overload for all in one night... but even if we don't do the first cycle in Dec, that is ok w/ me. I'll live... I always do!
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing good! :flower:

Great news! I'm so pleased that things are moving forwards for you. Sorry about your husband's panic attack. It must be ever so difficult for the guys when talking about donor sperm I imagine. It's difficult to try and put ourselves in their shoes and imagine it. :hugs:


Welcome, corsita :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

So glad the counselling is helping KB - I think I would have gone mad without mine!

Pamplemousse - you're definitely not alone in finding christmas a difficult time :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Just realised I hadn't updated on this thread with my fertility report! :dohh:

Well, we have 3 lovely fertilised eggs and are looking at a probable transfer on Sunday - although there's a possibility it might be Tuesday :happydance:


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## MissAma

Sounds great Deb! Very pleased for you! 

Corsita if it was you who asked about costs in Eugin l answered a few pages ago.


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## cosita

Thanks all, Miss Ama yes it was me and greatly appreciate your answer. Deb111 I have fingers crossed for you!Have a good weekend all x


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## KB38

Fingers crossed for you Deb111. Can't wait for the next installment!


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## mumanddad

Deb thats fantastic news x


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## tigerlily1975

That's wonderful, Deb! Good luck!!

C xx


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## Sar187

Thats great Deb! I am hoping they divide really well and you have 3 great quality embryos! How many are you transferring, If I remember correctly UK has more strict rules on this than the US does. 

I will update later with my WTF appt results gotta run right now.


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## Deb111

All being well, they will put 2 back and hopefully freeze the other one. They would only put 3 back if I was over 40 xx


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## Deb111

So, we're not going to the clinic today ...

Clinic phoned - all 3 embies doing so well that they can't choose between them and want to take them to blastocycst and transfer Tuesday at 12pm

She said they are all Grade 1 (top notch) and are at the 8 cell stage (should be 5 - 8 cells by now) 

:bunny:


----------



## Pamplemousse

snd80 said:


> Yay Deb! Those eggies and "boys" sound like some good news a brewing!!! :happydance: Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> AFM-I made my initial appt. for Jackson Nov 21st.! My aunt/2nd mother is going with me, cause of course, she is funding this for us! I am SOOO excited!!! Still gotta make the final decision of which donor we are going to pick before then, but as hubby and I were talking about it the other night, he had a panic attack and we stopped the discussion for the time being. I guess it was info overload for all in one night... but even if we don't do the first cycle in Dec, that is ok w/ me. I'll live... I always do!
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing good! :flower:

Good for you. Looking forward is the name of the game!! Roll on 21st November :hugs:


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## Pamplemousse

Deb111: Fantastic news for you. I am smiling away as I type!! This really is an exciting time for you, all fingers and toes crossed. 

AFM: We received an e-mail from the hospital to say that our blood test results are in. No clues as to what the results maybe, just waiting for an appointment date now so I guess we are one step forward on the long path!!!

I am trying to think of qusetions to ask at the next appointment, other than establishing the cause of evil azoo (my new name for it!!). So, I think I need to ask whether the FS detected any sperm at all from DH samples. He said none, but he may not have mentioned any dead ones, so I want to clarify that. Also, I want to know what DH's hormone levels are, and if we can do anything to improve them if there is a problem.

Ooh, also, has anyone else got their DH on wellman vitamins? Dh has agreed to start taking them, and I would like a good three month of vitamins in him prior to an SSR (if we can have one) in order to ensure anything found is as tip top as can be. Anyone got any postive news with wellman?

As you can probably tell I am at present fully motivated to deal with this evil azoo. It will rue the day it thought to cross me and my DH!!!! :ninja:


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## wibble wobble

Hi all

Pamplemouse hope you get your appointment through soon to discuss results

Deb yay for going to blast I'll have my fingers crossed that all 3 continue to grow well over the next couple of days

SND 21st of november isn't too long away hope the time flies by really for you and that you get to speak to hubby more about the donor. In the uk they only give very basic information about donors height,weight,blood group,hair colour etc. I browsed a U.S sperm bank website and you get information about all kinds and a picture too (not sure if personally I'd want to see what my future childs father looks like,think I'd spend to long thinking about it)

afm I've been a victim of a clerical f*** up at the hospital, they invited me to a patient information evening (next thurs) When I spoke to others who had been to one at LWH they said it was all about IVF/ICSI so I rang up fri to ask and turns out the nurses had read my notes wrong and thought I was going straight to IVF when I'm not. So now I'm back in limbo land waiting for an appointment to see the consultant again. I'm a little disappointed as it'll most likely be mid november now before we get in to see him,when it could have been next week that we started the ball rolling with counselling and donor matching... life goes on though I'm sure work will keep me busy enough to keep my mind off it


----------



## Deb111

Pamplemousse said:


> I am trying to think of qusetions to ask at the next appointment, other than establishing the cause of evil azoo (my new name for it!!). So, I think I need to ask whether the FS detected any sperm at all from DH samples. He said none, but he may not have mentioned any dead ones, so I want to clarify that. Also, I want to know what DH's hormone levels are, and if we can do anything to improve them if there is a problem.
> 
> Ooh, also, has anyone else got their DH on wellman vitamins? Dh has agreed to start taking them, and I would like a good three month of vitamins in him prior to an SSR (if we can have one) in order to ensure anything found is as tip top as can be. Anyone got any postive news with wellman?
> 
> As you can probably tell I am at present fully motivated to deal with this evil azoo. It will rue the day it thought to cross me and my DH!!!! :ninja:

Hubby has been on wellman for fertility, plus omega 3 capsules https://male-health.org/low-levels-of-omega-3-dha-linked-to-male-infertility/ The NHS said it was pointless! :growlmad: But Mr Ramsay said that it obviously wont make him create them if he's not, but will make sure there is the best possible environment for any that are being made.

I've also read that pomegranate juice *not from concentrate *can help https://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Pomegranate-juice-boosts-sperm-quality-study

As to whether or not they helped, who knows :shrug: we still only found minute numbers!! I mean 35 ish in one testicle when most men produce 1000 per heartbeat just seems crazy - in fact it is a miracle that an NHS random biopsy managed to find 3 - I guess that's one thing we have to thank the NHS for because if they'd found none, I doubt we would have pursued things :nope:

As for questions to ask
- ask if they centrifuged the sperm sample - minute numbers that wouldn't show up normally can show up if they centrifuge it
- get them to do a prolactin blood test - high levels can cause azoospermia and can be treated (the details escape me now - it's been a long time sonce we were looing into that, but definitely worth getting it checked)
- definitely make sure you get a note of his testosterone and FSH levels

Can't think of any more right now

You go kick this azoospermia's butt hun!! :ninja:


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## Deb111

So sorry about the mess up Wibble - it is so frustrating that we have to keep on at them and make sure things are done right, but I've sometimes wondered if it's our saving grace that it gives us something to throw ourselves into xx


----------



## cosita

Good luck Deb!!!Things are looking good! :flower:


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## Sar187

Deb-So happy your 3 embies are growing well! I hope they continues as well as they have been! 

pamplemousse-Sounds like you are really motivated right now! I hope you get that appointment soon.

Sorry to hear about the screw up wibble. Hoping you can get that appointment relatively soon and move on to the next steps. 

AFM-WTF appt. went well. The Dr. really thinks our bad fertilization rates were due to DH's sperm quality. The only change being made this cycle is that we will be using assisted hatching. Everything else should remain the same, as the doc feels I responded very well to the meds and that 14 was a good # of eggs. He also feels we have a decent chance since we did end up with 2 good quality embryos last time. I am just hoping right now that we can get better fertilization this time around. I am going to be starting acupuncture this cycle in hopes that if nothing else it at least helps keep me relaxed as I have a gut feeling that stress on my part was a big contributor to last cycles failure.


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## Pamplemousse

Wibble Wobble: How annoying for you. Is it not enough that you have so much to go through? You like to think that you don't have to worry about medical muck ups which may be of no consequence to the medic dealing with the matter but of real importance to you!
AFM: Looks like conultation will be on the 7th November. So pleased to have a date so that we can start moving forward. I am going to start drafting my list of questions this eve. Poor Consultant is in for a grilling!


----------



## cosita

Hi all, 

So my husband went for his ultrasound today and the tech said it all looks fairly ok, although he does have cysts on the epididymis and the guy says that a lot of guys have this. So we are going to the urologist with what seem like average blood results and what seems like normal ultrasound. I hate to get my hopes up and am really trying not to. Has anyone had normal results indicating other reasons for azoospermia? 
I´m trying to find it on the internet that maybe the cysts could be the cause but I´m not really finding anything conclusive. :shrug:
Hope you are all having a good week 
x


----------



## wibble wobble

Cosita I think everyone has been in your situation of praying for the best. Hopefully for you both it'll be the cysts causing the azoo so you'll have a high chance of sperm being present.

Deb love your new profile pic x

Pamplemouse hope you get some good answers on the 7th

Sar have you been given a date for your next cycle? Hopefully the assisted hatching will do the trick for you. Acupuncture is great I've been going for around the last 6 months

afm My next appointment has turned up 15 november, so 3 weeks away. I've read somewhere that I may need to have gene screening myself incase I am a cf carrier so I don't get matched with a cf carrier and have a baby that ends up with cf. Those bloods are a 6 week wait so I'm kind of thinking that not much will happen between now and christmas.. unless of course they arrange for the counselling and donor matching appointments to be done before the results come back. Somehow I doubt it as this is the nhs we are talking about. I really hate being in this situation of not knowing what happens next, at least I only have 3 weeks to torture myself with... hopefully I'll be able to lose a few pounds to get me under the 25 bmi in that time


----------



## Sar187

Cosita-My DH has a blockage due to scar tissue around the vas deferens and the epididymis. The scar tissue was caused by hernia/hydrocele surgeries that DH had at 5months old and another at 4 years old. His blood work came back normal and our urologist told us an ultrasound wouldn't show us anything definite because of where the blockage was at(high towards the groin not low towards the testicles). 

Wibble-I hope this 3 weeks goes fast so you can figure out your next steps!

Deb-Hope you had some great blasts and your transfer went well!

AFM-We did get a timeline for our cycle. I guess I forgot that part in my last update. I actually got my calendar when we went for our wtf appt on the 21st. I started BCP that evening. I start Lupron on 11/17 and I go in for my baseline u/s on 11/21. They are targeting me for a Dec. 9th ER(EC). All my meds are ordered and should be delivered 11/15. After all the appointments I have had recently it is kind of weird to just have a schedule and know when I need to start/stop things and not have an appt. for a whole month. :)


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## Deb111

So we had a beautiful blastocyst transfered yesterday and also a morula (stage before blastocyst). Procedure wasn't pleasant - by far the worst thing for me in the whole injecting / EC / drugs cycle (so 10 mins of discomfort isn't bad I guess) :winkwink:

They left the other morula overnight as it was slow developing and they hoped it owuld turn into a blastocyst - and we had the phonecall today to say it has :happydance:

So we have 2 embryos back where they belong, a frozen embryo and a small amount of frozen sperm :thumbup:

Thanks for all your good wishes girls :hugs:


----------



## Sar187

Thats great Deb! The transfer is definitely uncomfortable. It wouldn't be so bad except for the full bladder. The 2ww was the hardest part of the whole cycle for me, I am really hoping at least one of those little embies takes for you!


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## Deb111

The thing is Sar - when I had my dummy transfer at the local clinic that were scanning me, it was uncomfortable, but a lot easier than yesterdays. They were lovely and understanding about my issues and took it slowly. 

The bloke yesterday was one of those 'old school', "you're only making it worse for yourself by being tense" ones who made me feel like all he bothered about was getting it done 

Hope urologist appt goes well for you and hubby Corsita


----------



## cosita

Thanks all I´ll let you know!


----------



## MoBaby

Deb! Thats sooo exciting!! Cant wait to hear your update!! 
Cosita: GL at the urologist!!

For me: Been on Lupron since oct 22, tomorrow my 1st u/s and bloodwork before begining gonal f which is on Friday :) then a series of scans and bloods and more shots etc..... lol... then EC day on nov 7th hopefully! 
Im really worried about the full bladder/cath thing.... they put a catheter in your bladder at my clinic! I think this is the worst part! They do give you some valium so maybe that will help! 
Oh and DH's sperm count is still up 500,000-600,000.... we were initially told he could freeze then told no it wont make it then okay freeze a sample... so glad we did because they did a trial and spermies survived!! SO we have a backup now in case DH has none on day of egg retrevial :)

Will have fx for you deb!

Wibble: sorry you are having to deal with medical mishaps! :( 

Sar: Exciting you get to start soon!!


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## Sar187

Deb-That really sucks that the dr. wasn't very gentle! Hopefully it will have been worth it though!

Mobaby-Sounds like you are really moving along! I have talked to one other woman where the clinic uses a catheter for the bladder. I hope those follies grow really well once you start the gonal-f. Have you had any side effects from the lupron? I had none with that but the gonal-f gave me horrible migraines. Glad you were able to freeze a backup for your DH, besides having it in case they don't have any I think it makes it much easier for them to perform on that day.

AFM-DH and I have both been kind of down the last couple of days. We are having trouble really getting excited and being positive about this next cycle. I am hoping that once things get moving again it will be a little easier. I had a massage last night, have my acupuncture consultation tonight, and am also going to look into Reiki which my massage therapist has suggested.


----------



## cosita

So it went...ok. We still know nothing. He has referred us to gyno cos its thru them and not him that we get to fertility specialist. And now Spanish red tape starts! Hubby will have to go for biopsy to see if any sperm there (sorry dont know correct terminology this is all done thru spanish). He said they will probably want to repeat all tests again etc just to be sure. The good news is (or rather the look on the bright side part) is that I am covered by public health insurance and hubby is covered by private insurance so we can go both ways if we want to. He recommended public. So we are both ringing for appointments tomorrow to get things moving. Only thing is as u all well know, public is sloowwwww and I have to go thru GP to get appointment for Gyno. Hubby is disappointed as I think he was expecting to be told something. I wasn't really. I was expecting a little more info on possible causes but if the urologist isn't savvy on fertility its better he doesn't say anything. 
So my other struggle in life (weight) is also annoying me. I have lost 20kg in the past 18 months and since may have been at a standstill. Seeing endocrinologist for tests in a couple of weeks but its annoying cos i know i have another 10 to go before we can be treated. Im hungry, sweating it out in the gym but that damn scales wont budge!!
Sorry for ranting!!


----------



## MoBaby

Sar no effects from lupron.maybe a hot flash here and there. I've had waves of nausea but i was on doxy so I think its from that. Gonal f started last night. So this morning I have a killer headache and also upset tummy ...headache maybe from gonal f but since I have a slight cold it could be that...I took some pain relievers and it did not go away :(
cosita hope for answers soon!


----------



## silverbell

Hey everybody.

Not much going on with me and I've been a bit down, so I've not been on for a while. Had my day 21 bloods done today and then it's off to the Gynae in a couple of weeks for the results of my HSG and day 3 and day 21 bloods and hopefully a referral to the Fertility Clinic so I can at least get in the system while DH is waiting for his mTESE.

Glad to hear things are moving for pretty much everyone :thumbup:

Cosita, as you asked - my DH had a cyst on his testicle at USS and they said it's incredibly common and a huge amount of men have this. Our fertility specialist (specialises in azoospermia) in London said this is of no consequence to the azoospermia.

I hope that things move quicker for you than expected :hugs:


----------



## MissAma

Hello everyone! 

Good stuff going on here with the cycles ticking along nicely and some appointments happening.

But of course, most importantly, Deb you are my hero, the stats of your cycle will go in the annals of the clinic, I bet you they never saw that picture perfect of a situation. 3 and then all 3 made it past day 5 - 1 on the outside! You are SO pregnant with twins lady, I will eat my hat if not!

AFM it looks like this baby No. 2 show is gonna get on the road whether we want it or not. I mean of course we can put the breaks on whenever we like but I had forgotten how a private clinic works. They are on the ball. 

Speaking of balls.... :rofl: they sent a letter asking the Viking to go get his bloods done because they would like to do the TESE ahead of time and freeze. I of course, panicked because we told them time and again we want to use fresh so we called them ready to whine. They said they can show us documented results of the same outcome with frozen and fresh in their particular clinic due to their selection routines BUT said that if we want to then there is no issue to use frozen for back-up and still do fresh on the day so I feel much better now that we have the option. Since we have a 3-pack we may even do frozen first -cheaper- and then second time around do fresh even if we have enough frozen left over or do both on cycle 2 and 3. Because yes, we fully expect to have to go through most of our 3 tries, we won the IVF lottery once before, this next rodeo won't be easy.

So they want him cut end of November. Which, if we get the funds -very doubtful unless our employers want to throw in a balls slashing as a Xmas bonus!- would be smart so that it's not after binge drinking for the holiday's. Now I'm starting to freak out. This whole thing could get to a very abrupt end if they find no sperm this time and I have a much longer way to fall now when I saw it was possible.


----------



## Pamplemousse

Hi Ladies,

Hope all is well?

Deb111: How are things? I have everything crossed for you!!

AFM: Mini meltdown yesterday when I discovered that my area will only fund one round of ICIS. To be honest, it is what I expected. DH and I are in a position to fund other attempts but that money is gonna have to come from somewhere. Also, we are in the situation where we are buying a family sized home so if we have to find our baby through adoption then we can show that we have a nice warm child friendly home waiting for a child that deserves it. 

And then for the first time ever I got really angry. Not at my DH, but just down to the fact that it is so unfair. To be honet I was not really lucky in love until I met my DH, who oddly I knew when we were 16. It took me so long to find Mr Right and I just thought my lucky breaks had arrived. I work in a job where I see rubbish mothers and fathers everyday, I hear about their kids being taking into care and how they managed to conceive children whilst addicted to drugs, and I can't help but feel that I am more deserving. I know that we don't have a right to have a child, but aghhhhh!!

Then, yesterday night I dreamt I had a new born baby girl in a pink cardie and jet black hair just like mine her head on my shoulder. It was such a realistic dream that I felt robbed when I woke up. Hopefully I will be back in postive mood soon, just feeling impatient, I want to get cracking on having my family, got plenty of love to be giving out!!!

Rant over!: Right, does anyone have any funny/good news?


----------



## cosita

Hi Ladies, 
Hope alls well...

Pamplemouse: I know how you feel about looking at people who seem to pop out kids without even thinking about it but I try rise above it by thinking that cos they dont even think about it, they dont appreciate it and nothing should be taken for granted in life. I also feel that people who go thru tough times in life learn from the experiences and in return can teach other people to appreciate what they have. I don't know, but I do know that being happy is sooo important and I'd prefer to have my life, my job and my hubby (with his azoospermia) that have someone elses life and lots of babies. I don't know if its what you need to hear but be strong, your time will come!:flower:

AFM: I went to my doc (public health) today to get referral to gynaecologist (works that way apparently) for them to refer us to fs. Got appointment for 2 weeks time. On friday i sent an email to a private clinic (hubby has private insurance) asking what our next step would be. They called today offering an appointment with andrologist next tuesday!!
Unbelievable the difference. Apart from the fact that my doc highly recommended going private!
So things have started moving at least.


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## Pamplemousse

Thanks for your message Corsita, just what I needed to hear. I am back on positve mode now. I agree in that I am happy with my life and I would not swap my DH for any other, I want children with him and I am willing to take our children which ever way they come to us!!

Glad things are moving forward with you, progress is good, it can keep you looking forward!! xx


----------



## Deb111

Pamplemousse said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> Hope all is well?
> 
> Deb111: How are things? I have everything crossed for you!!
> 
> AFM: Mini meltdown yesterday when I discovered that my area will only fund one round of ICIS. To be honest, it is what I expected. DH and I are in a position to fund other attempts but that money is gonna have to come from somewhere. Also, we are in the situation where we are buying a family sized home so if we have to find our baby through adoption then we can show that we have a nice warm child friendly home waiting for a child that deserves it.
> 
> And then for the first time ever I got really angry. Not at my DH, but just down to the fact that it is so unfair. To be honet I was not really lucky in love until I met my DH, who oddly I knew when we were 16. It took me so long to find Mr Right and I just thought my lucky breaks had arrived. I work in a job where I see rubbish mothers and fathers everyday, I hear about their kids being taking into care and how they managed to conceive children whilst addicted to drugs, and I can't help but feel that I am more deserving. I know that we don't have a right to have a child, but aghhhhh!!
> 
> Then, yesterday night I dreamt I had a new born baby girl in a pink cardie and jet black hair just like mine her head on my shoulder. It was such a realistic dream that I felt robbed when I woke up. Hopefully I will be back in postive mood soon, just feeling impatient, I want to get cracking on having my family, got plenty of love to be giving out!!!
> 
> Rant over!: Right, does anyone have any funny/good news?

Things were going ok until about 4 days ago and now I'm going out of mind - couldn't wait for OTD to be here and now it will be tomorrow; I'm terrified!! It didn't help that when someone I thought was a good friend who knows all of this is not general knowledge where I work, was asked byt someone why I was off when I went for EC and she told her it was because I'd gone down to London for IVF!! and she wasn't the only one in the staffroom when she told her! I'm livid. She knew it wasn't common knowledge and now I'm feeling very vulnerable and paranoid at work wondering exactly who knows what :nope:

I know exactly where you're coming from with the whole unfairness of this. I wish there was something I could say to make it feel better, but just know that you are TOTALLY not alone in how you are feeling :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Good stuff going on here with the cycles ticking along nicely and some appointments happening.
> 
> But of course, most importantly, Deb you are my hero, the stats of your cycle will go in the annals of the clinic, I bet you they never saw that picture perfect of a situation. 3 and then all 3 made it past day 5 - 1 on the outside! You are SO pregnant with twins lady, I will eat my hat if not!

Awww bless you :cry: I wish I'd done a test sooner after doing the HCG shot so I could at least imagine seeing 2 pink lines - I just can't visualise ever seeing them, but it's nice to hear you're all feeling confident for me :thumbup:



MissAma said:


> Speaking of balls.... :rofl: they sent a letter asking the Viking to go get his bloods done because they would like to do the TESE ahead of time and freeze. I of course, panicked because we told them time and again we want to use fresh so we called them ready to whine. They said they can show us documented results of the same outcome with frozen and fresh in their particular clinic due to their selection routines BUT said that if we want to then there is no issue to use frozen for back-up and still do fresh on the day so I feel much better now that we have the option. Since we have a 3-pack we may even do frozen first -cheaper- and then second time around do fresh even if we have enough frozen left over or do both on cycle 2 and 3. Because yes, we fully expect to have to go through most of our 3 tries, we won the IVF lottery once before, this next rodeo won't be easy.

We were very definite about wanting to use fresh sperm too and in the end, with our minute numbers, I don't regret it for a minute, but we were also assured by Mr Ramsay that actually frozen can almost be better because when there are enough sperm to choose from, the thawing acts like a process of natural selection, the strong ones survive and the weak ones don't which means the ones that survive are more likely to fertilise the eggs



MissAma said:


> So they want him cut end of November. Which, if we get the funds -very doubtful unless our employers want to throw in a balls slashing as a Xmas bonus!

You should ask! :rofl:

Very exciting that you could be starting the journey soon xx


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## Deb111

:bfn: Beyond devastated :cry:


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## MissAma

I don't think that's the final verdict on this, I honestly don't believe you are out, likely just a late implanter but if you are.... please remember you have frostie waiting for mommy and daddy to pick him up.


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## KB38

Deb111, my heart is breaking for you. I know there is nothing I can say or do that will make you feel better. I wish I could give you a big hug but this will have to do :hugs::flower::hugs:


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## wifeyw

Deb111 - i have just been lerking about just haven't been writing just reading. I am sorry about your BFN i still wouldn't take that answer the first time wait and test again it's worth the try *HUGS* my heart aches for you's it's devastating getting BFN normally on your test trying naturally but when you have been through your journey, It's even worse. I hope you's are ok considering the news xxx


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## Sar187

Deb-So so sorry. Hugs to you! Read your journal too, and I know how easy it is to think its your fault but you didn't do anything wrong. Take time to grieve and to get back on track and then remember that little one you have frozen. It really could have been anything, but it definitely was not your fault! I'll be thinking of you, and As missAma said don't give up all hope until AF shows.


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## MoBaby

Deb I am sooo sorry :(


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## Pamplemousse

Deb I am so, so so, sorry for you and really do not know what to say other than that my thoughts are with you. 

Everyone is here for you. Take your time to deal with this and in the mean time I sending you the biggest hug I can :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Hi girls,
I havent been on here for ages. Im unhappy to see some new faces, i feel horrid that there are more people going through this. 

Debs I am so sorry, Ive just read back a couple of pages and Im heartbroken for you. 


Me, I think I have fallen into a slight depression and I am usually so good at picking myself up out of it, but its so hard at the moment. Everywhere I turn I am reminded that we are so so unlucky to be going through this. I am really mad, but I dont know at who I am mad at???? With Christmas coming up I think that is depressing me as it is the 3rd Xmas without a baby, every Christmas, we have said, hopefully by the next one. I think i need to stop focussing on that. 
We have our next app in 3 weeks (finally after waiting months) + we will basically find out if they want to operate to try to un block OH's tubes.

Has anyone any tips on how to lift their mood. I think my problem is, I have tried for so long to stay positive, the sadness was always pushed away, but i just cant do that anymore :(

I hope the rest of you are all doing ok. 

sending you hugs and support Debs.


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## tigerlily1975

Oh, Deb, I'm so sorry :hugs: 

Is there any chance you could've tested too early? The World can be a very cruel place at times. I'm going to hope little 'freezie' will bring you the joy you so richly deserve. :hugs:

AFM, we're back to see the consultant tomorrow to get DH's results (CF carrier and Karyotype). I'm not really sure what to expect and how the outcome will affect the next step. During our last appointment, the Dr originally said DH would have an ultrasound, he then proceeded to have a 'fumble' and said DH didn't need one (??). He did mention that they'd be going in to see if they can find any and freeze them... but he wanted to wait for these blood results before booking it. So, I'm quite apprehensive about tomorrow, if the result aren't 'good', is that the end?

I must apologise for not popping on more often. I've felt in 'limbo' these last couple of months.. when it's out of your hands, you just don't know what to do, do you? I know you ladies understand these feelings better than anyone else. On top of that, I've had to put up with baby after baby at work. It's not like we're even a big company! But again, you can all relate to this. 

For now, I'm going to keep you all in my thoughts and hope with all the hope I can muster that good things come your way.

:hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> Oh, Deb, I'm so sorry :hugs:
> 
> Is there any chance you could've tested too early? The World can be a very cruel place at times. I'm going to hope little 'freezie' will bring you the joy you so richly deserve. :hugs:
> 
> AFM, we're back to see the consultant tomorrow to get DH's results (CF carrier and Karyotype). I'm not really sure what to expect and how the outcome will affect the next step. During our last appointment, the Dr originally said DH would have an ultrasound, he then proceeded to have a 'fumble' and said DH didn't need one (??). He did mention that they'd be going in to see if they can find any and freeze them... but he wanted to wait for these blood results before booking it. So, I'm quite apprehensive about tomorrow, if the result aren't 'good', is that the end?
> 
> I must apologise for not popping on more often. I've felt in 'limbo' these last couple of months.. when it's out of your hands, you just don't know what to do, do you? I know you ladies understand these feelings better than anyone else. On top of that, I've had to put up with baby after baby at work. It's not like we're even a big company! But again, you can all relate to this.
> 
> For now, I'm going to keep you all in my thoughts and hope with all the hope I can muster that good things come your way.
> 
> :hugs: to all,
> 
> C xx

Thanks Tiger - it was the date the clinic gave me to test. They have said that if I want I can keep taking the pessaries and test again on Saturday but they think the result is very unlikely to change, especially as this was an FRER test and there wan't even a hint of a line

I hope you have positive news tomorrow xx


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## Sar187

wanbmum-I try and focus on the good things in my life and the things I enjoy doing. It is hard when I am at work though, that is when I tend to get down. I think too much at work. Hope your appt. coming up goes well. 

Tiger-Good luck tomorrow! My DH never had an ultrasound done I think it all depends on the dr. 

Deb-I am a little surprised that they don't do a blood test over there. Here in the US as far as I know a blood pregnancy test is required at the End of an IVF cycle to determine the results. I'll be praying something changes by saturday!


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## Deb111

Our clinic in Chelsea don't REQUIRE a blood test, but will do one if you want - only thing is our clinic is 3 hours drive away. I may phone local clinic where I had my scans and see if they will do one just so we know for definite.


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## Sar187

Deb-That makes sense. If I was you I would probably see if the local clinic would do one, but then I am an incredibly impatient person. It may make you feel a bit better to know for sure though. I took a HPT the morning of my blood test(11dp3dt) but the results of the blood test were what really made me believe the fact that mine hadn't worked.


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## snd80

Deb, sweetie, I am SOOO sorry! Hoping you aren't out of the woods yet though... Don't count yourself out til the witch shows up!!! Fingers crossed real tight for you! We are all still routing for you!!! Great BIG :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:!!!!

Tiger, I understand COMPLETELY what you are talking about! At work is when my minds wonders 90 to nothing, and I seem to put my "wall" up and start to doubt everything all over again! It's like you have had so many disappointments and are scared of another one, so you automatically put this shield up to prevent getting hurt again, well for me at least anyway. So I take my frustrations out in the gym. Although I have been crying once or twice while on the eliptical... that had to be funny to see! Hoping it gets better. 

Hope everyone else out there is doing well! :hugs: to each of you too!


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## wibble wobble

sorry to hear you got bfn deb thinking of you xx


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## Deb111

Have decided not to bother geting blood test done - it wont change anything. Will test tomorrow morning as told and then stop the progesterone


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## Damita

So sorry :hugs:


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## MissAma

I'm still ever so livid for you Deb...

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

We got the order for this blood tests through the mail today so that made it 100% more real, we are really doing this :O

When we are doing it may be in balance though, we were meant to do the TESE late this month, early the next but they want payment for it immediately I would suppose and that's an issue for it as he's just changed jobs and while the new employer agreed to help they won't start paying him till Feb... so unless they are going to be ok with us paying later then we would have to wait with the TESE itself....


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## MissAma

Update: he just called to say that he called the clinic and did a big of groveling and hey presto they will wait with the payment till the new employment kicks in. So woot! We can has slashed-balls-road-trip!


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## Deb111

Great news that they will wait for payment :thumbup: xx


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## Pamplemousse

Boo. My consultant's meeting has now changed to the 9th. 2 extra days of waiting. In the grand scheme of things I suppose paitience is a quality I am going to have to acquire!


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## tigerlily1975

How are you doing, Deb? Sending you massive, big monster hugs (the kind I give my niece and nephew) :hugs: :hugs: I hope you get some useful feedback when you talk to the clinic. :hugs:

That's great news, MissAma. Sounds like you're good to go!

snd: it's so hard just getting through the day sometimes, isn't it? :hugs: You're so good taking the frustration out at the gym, I just want to head for the biscuit tin! 

I'm sorry they've moved your appointment, Pamplemousse. All the waiting adds to the frustration. Hopefully a good consultation will make the wait all worthwhile. Good luck! :hugs:

As for us, we saw the consultant this morning. DH's karyotype and CF came back clear, so we're still at a loss as to the cause. So, next up is the TESE which will hopefully be sometime in February (we're moving in Jan and DH has a big lab move at the start of Feb, so we can't do it anytime before). It's weird to think that a huge part of our lives (our dream?) will depend on a biopsy. If we're lucky enough to find any (oh, pleeeeease), I think the Dr said we'd get 3 NHS ICSI cycles - has anyone else been told this? 

The words 'sperm donor' popped up during the consultation and we're still not sure whether to go down that route. To be honest, we've not really talked about it. I think we've both thought it's something to discuss when we know it's our only option, although the fact that I'll turn 37 next year, I know time is most defintely not on our side. Anyway, it's the weekend here, I have a bottle of wine chilling in the fridge, so I'm going to relax and wish you all a wonderful weekend.

Much love and BIG :hugs: to all you lovely ladies.

C xx


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## Deb111

I was bearing up today - trying to research the next stage and where we go from here but I've just had some spotting so it looks like my embies are on their way. Feel like I'm grieving again - how many times do we all have to grive in this horrible process?! :cry:

That's great news that you can get 3 NHS ICSI cycles - areas differ greatly. Which specialist is your dh seeing? We could have had one where we live, but couldn't use it because we needed private specialist for hubby or chose to do a synchronous cycle.


----------



## silverbell

Deb - as posted on your journal, I'm so sorry :hugs: Life is so unfair.

Ama - very exciting that things are definitely on track for your second.

Pample - I feel exactly the same about getting angry at people who almost shouldn't be allowed to have children because of the way they are etc. I also think that it kind of _is_ a human right to have a child - procreation is the most natural thing in life. So it angers me no end that so many of us are being obstructed in this regard.

Tiger - 3 cycles is amazing. We only get 1 cycle where I live. It differs depending on where you live, which I think is horrible :nope: I'm glad the genetic tests came back clear :thumbup:

AFM - We got the date for DH's microTESE - 10 January :dance:

It seems very strange that on 11 January - all being well - we shall know whether he's got any sperm at all or not. It kind of feels surreal that we'll know one way or the other. I have to admit though that I'm feeling there won't be anything at all. I can't imagine how upsetting it's going to be if this is the case, even despite the fact we'll be using donor sperm. It just seems so wrong and so unbelievably sad that some wonderful, perfectly deserving men are completely denied the chance of creating life. :cry:

I have to focus on the good things though - I have a lovely, caring DH who I wouldn't change for the world and who makes me smile and laugh every day.


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## tigerlily1975

How are you doing, Deb? Have you managed to talk to the clinic? Sending you BIG :hugs:

Silverbell - Glad you've now got your date. Yeah, I thought we only got one cycle, but I'm sure he said three. You've pretty much summed up exactly how I'm feeling at the moment. You see all these a**eholes on shows like Jeremy Kyle popping out kids left, right and centre, but you have lovely, decent men, like our fellas who would make wonderful dads and by a cruel twist of fate, they might be denied the chance to have a child of their own. It makes no sense. :nope:

As always I send you all much love and lots of :hugs:

C xx


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## wibble wobble

Silverbell congrats on getting your tese date through,hope the time flies by for you and that you get a positive result from it.

Tigerlily thats good news getting 3 cycles, hopefully you wont need them all

Deb thinking of you

pamplemouse good luck for tomorrows appointment


afm got some info from a girl who is needing donor sperm from the clinic I'm also at, she got told that there is a 1 year wait... gutted doesn't even come close to how thats made me feel. It wont be a year from now it'll be a year from when we see the donor nurse which most probably will be the last appointment we get, so right now I'm thinking it'll be say 6 months for all the appointments we need so add a year to that and it'll be mid 2013 before anything starts to happen. I'm feeling really sorry for myself right now, lost my enthusiasm for next weeks appointment too... just know not very much is going to happen so fed up of life right now


----------



## Antoinette

Hi All,

Im just new to this forum and its like a complete relief to me to come on here and read similar stories to mine. I feel like im not alone. 
My husband has Azoospermia and has had all the tests, it isn't blocked sperm, he has no sperm at all :cry: we are both gutted but have decided to go down the donor sperm route. 
I was refered to the hospital by my GP and we received a letter from the hospital (Glasgow) in Aug saying they would be sending us another letter out in 6 months time with an appointment to see about getting on the waiting list to do IUI with an annoynomous sperm donor.
Has anyone else been down this route? :shrug: Could you tell me how long it took you from start to finish? I feel disheartened because if it is taking 6 months just to get a letter out for an appointment to SEE about getting on the waiting list... I just don't want to imagine how long it is going to take to get on the waiting list and how long the waiting list is.

Thanks for any replies I get :hugs:


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi Antoinette welcome to the thread

I haven't finished my journey yet but so far it's taken me since March this year, we also need a donor and I've heard from someone (not our consultant) that there is a year waiting list for donors then after that and your at the top you then have to wait to be matched and that to can take a while. There is options to buy/import from other countries I'm not sure at the minute if this would be right for me.... I don't really want to use money that should be paying off debts to save for sperm :(


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## Antoinette

Thanks for your reply. I was worried it would be that long, its so disheartening when its going to take so long. I have also looked at sperm that you can buy and it really is expensive. I have also seen other websites that people are offering to be sperm donors for home insemination. There are loads of success stories but I dont know how I feel about this.
xx:shrug:


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## wibble wobble

If you inseminate from home you don't really know what you'll be getting. At a clinic they check for gene abnormalities as well as infections... it just depends on how much of a risk you want to take..

The girl that told me of the year waiting list asked about buying sperm from elsewhere and got told matter of factly don't expect much change from 2 grand!!! to say I'm in a bad place emotionally right now is an understatement!

I've been on european sperm bank so far without additional uk costs it's up to £1680 (6 iui's worth)thats if I can match with an anonymous donor a lot seem to want to be known on their list and that'd add almost an extra 1000


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## Deb111

Hi Antoinette and welcome. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

I can't believe the donor thing takes so long. This journey really is one long waiting list and it's so unfair!

I agree with wibble about just buying sperm from websites - you have no idea what you are getting.

Wibble - so sorry this has all out you on such a big downer. I really don't know what to say. You ust have to look ahead to your next appointment I suppose. Thinking of you xx


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## Antoinette

I know Wibble I was looking at prices too and it was going to come to at least a couple of grand. I feel pretty down about it too, its like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I was on the GCRM website (Glasgow Centre for Reproductive Medicine) and to even just get a 'pregnancy slot' is £750. Then one straw of sperm is £175. Then to get the IUI treatment is £885, and thats not even including all the consultations etc you need to pay for.
I have also been on websites such as Pride Angel and looked at people donating sperm. Its free and apparently to register to the site they need to go through checks etc. I think you pay to contact a donor but it isn't much. I keep thinkng about this option as it would be so much less money and would get results quicker but I just don't know. I wouldn't want the donor to have any contact with the child as my husband would be the father in our eyes.

Debs, thanks for your support, it is just unfair. Especially when you hear of people that are horrible to their kids and do awful things, why are they able to have children when the people that would give them an amazing life are subject to waiting lists and endless heartache.
xxxx


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## wibble wobble

I'm not going with a website like that for the very same reason, my husband will be the father of my baby, pride angel would complicate things as there is no legal 'paperwork' to stop the donor from being in their childs life... whereas having treatment at a clinic makes your husband legally responsible for the baby,their name goes on the birth birth certificate.

If only there wasn't such a wait for sperm, I already know deep down that I have no choice but to wait it out. I could sacrifice paying off credit cards to save the money, but that would be stupid as the reason I'm paying them off is because I don't want the bills dropping through when I do have a baby to look after. This way I'll most likely have paid off the lot by the time we start.... a silver lining just not an easy one to see the bright side in at the minute :(


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## snd80

Hi Antionette and welcome! Sorry to see you here, but some of us on here have been down a similar road you are on now, each a little different though. Life can be SO unfair! But it is what it is and what else can you do about it? Just take it one day at a time. Great big :hugs: to you!

I might offer this website.... www.xytexinternational.com They are the same bank we are choosing from here in the US, just their international bank, and from what the specialist we are going to told us that Xytex is their #1 choice in donor situations b/c they have the best quality and are truly legit! You can choose from ethnic orgins and even choose from picts (for a fee) to match one as closly as you can to your hubby. I loathed the idea at first b/c I was so mad at the whole azoo situation, but have really become excited about it all the closer the time gets here!!! Just some food for thought....

Hope everyone else is doing as well as expected.... :hugs: to each of you!


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## cosita

Hi there girls, haven´t been around for a while to be honest cos I was spending sooo much time reading all the different stories and trying to make sense of our problem without really having any information. I am trying to accept that there are a lot of reasons for this and so far we don´t know ours so I just have to be patient!!
On tuesday we went to andrologist. He was very helpful and on Friday my dh is going for another spermiogram but this time including fructose and lots of other stuff that got lost in translation! He explained to us that it doesn´t look like its hormonal (getting tested for prolactin) and that quite possible biopsy will be what he tells us next time we go back (22nd). He told us that he prefers not to freeze sperm (in the case any if found). 
So we weren´t expecting him to tell us anything else really although dh was a little dissappointed cos I think up until now he believed it was all just one big mistake! So the doc told us that the sperm had to be no more than 4 days and no less than 2 days old. So last night we had to get down to business to release a bit!!
Beware TMI!!!!
So without going into details we both noticed that he ejaculated a very small amount. The urologist did comment that the amount of his first sperm test was low but said no more. So anyway I googled retrograde ejaculation and low volume and to make a long story short. He says his pee is almost always cloudy after we dtd...this seems to be a symtom. Last year he took antidepressants..I´ve found this can be a cause of this. So I´m now back to trying to make sense of this without any information!!
Any ideas??


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## Deb111

I hadn't heard about the anti-depressant link (until I just googled it) but have heard of retrograde ejaculation. From what I understand, it just requires a simple urine test. If that is the cause it may be able to be treated with medication or may mean retrieving the sperm either from the bladder or it's source. If he is creating them normally, I would imagine the procedure would be pretty simple and not too invasive. My hubby's first sperm retrieval was just a 20 min biopsy under local anasthetic and if your dh is making sperm normally, that's all they'd most likely need to do to retrieve a decent amount.

I hope you get some answers soon xx


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## cosita

Thanks a lot Deb, as you can see I am self diagnosing and that is dangerous!! Cos I know this would be a good case scenario (if it was RE). He hasn´t taken the pills in almost a year, we started TTC after he stopped, they also took away his sexdrive completely. 
How are you doing this week hun?:flower:


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## Deb111

Definitely worth investigating the RE further but like you say, try not to get your hopes up too much. However, I have to say the 3 symptoms it mentions when I just googled it are lack of semen, infertility and cloudy urine after sex - so definitely a possibility I reckon.

We're getting through it thanks hun - you have to somehow don't you :shrug:

:af: is slightly less painful as of today - been in agony since saturday - but still going strong!

I have put my back out though too and I'm in so much pain with that too - weird thing is I've felt 100 times worse physically the last few days than I did at any point during my IVF cycle :growlmad:


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## MoBaby

cosita glad to see you are getting some answers! checking for retrograde ejaculation may not be a bad idea since you notice cloudy urine..... 

I had my egg retrieval today. Not as bad as I imagined. 
The one thing I am worried about is did DH have enough swimmers for the fertilization? We retrieved 20 eggs! Do you think the clinic would have called by now if there was an issue? They are to call tomorrow morning but I am dying here! I want to know now! I imagine if there was an issue they would have told us instead of making us wait, right?


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## Antoinette

Wibble I know exactly what you mean. We keep thinking about the money it would cost and think about putting it on credit cards but we also are paying off debts in order that when we finally do have a baby we are debt free. Me and my husband have had a few disagreements about it, I get to the stage where I get so frustrated that I don't care about the money and just say for us to put it on credit cards, my husband has to bring me back down to the ground and make me realise we can't just do that. Its so frustrating. I suppose we have to accept the fact that there is going to be a wait and reassure ourselves that it WILL happen and it IS worth the wait :kiss:

Snd80 - I will certainly look on that website you gave me, thankyou :hugs:. What stage of the process are you at? Have you chosen your donor sperm yet or is it a long waiting list like over here in the UK? This forum is such a relief for me because its nice to beable to speak to people that are going through the same thing.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Deb111

MoBaby said:


> cosita glad to see you are getting some answers! checking for retrograde ejaculation may not be a bad idea since you notice cloudy urine.....
> 
> I had my egg retrieval today. Not as bad as I imagined.
> The one thing I am worried about is did DH have enough swimmers for the fertilization? We retrieved 20 eggs! Do you think the clinic would have called by now if there was an issue? They are to call tomorrow morning but I am dying here! I want to know now! I imagine if there was an issue they would have told us instead of making us wait, right?

I would have thought they'd have told you if there was a problem too. What procedure did hubby have? Our clinic told us there and them how many they'd found - and told us as soon as they knew they'd got enough for the eggs they retrieved form me.

Have they got back to you? These different time zones are a nightmare! Do I see from your signature that you've now got fertilised eggs?? :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Glad you're finding this group helpful Antoinette - it's a great group of girls with loads of advice and information.

Trying to look on the positive side for those of you who are facing a long wait ... We were told if men had been diagnosed with azoospermia 10 years ago (maybe a bit longer now), there wouldn't have been any options other than donor sperm or adoption. Obviously ICSI, microTESE etc are oretty new. Medical advancements are happening all the time - so who knows in a year or 2 what further advancements will be available to help you get your dream? :hugs:


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## snd80

Antoinette said:


> Snd80 - I will certainly look on that website you gave me, thankyou :hugs:. What stage of the process are you at? Have you chosen your donor sperm yet or is it a long waiting list like over here in the UK? This forum is such a relief for me because its nice to beable to speak to people that are going through the same thing.
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well, so far we have looked at some profiles and made a "maybe" pile, now I have to pay the $165 fee and look at their picts to find one that matches as closely as we can to hubby. We do not have internet at home, so I'm going to have to get hubby up here at my work to look at the pict profiles before I go to Jackson to the fertility specialist on Nov 21 to see if he thinks I am ready body and cycle wise to go forward with donor. If so, we plan to do the first one next month. As far as I can tell from Xytex's site, all of them are in stock and if a certain one is "sold out", they say so in a pop up disclamer as soon as you click on the profile, so no waiting! They even offer over night shipping. This site has been a lifesaver for me too! I felt like I was going crazy until I found Deb and all these other great ladies in our same shoes! Good luck sweetie!


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## Deb111

So I realised that I haven't updated about our review appt on here - afrid I've been lazy and copied it across from my journal

So basically the consultant was very pleased with our cycle in terms of number and quality of eggs, my response, fetilisation etc but obviously we didn't get the outcome we wanted 

He said his job can be the best job sometimes, but in cases like mine; it can be the worst job, because everything was as good as it could be on paper, but there's not a damn thing they can do about it once they transfer it back

He said the usual reason why embryos don't implant is because they were not genetically normal embryos, but that doesn't mean that the 3rd one from the same 'batch' will be the same.

He says he doesn't think assisted hatching will be necessary and the clinics stats don't really show any difference, unless when they examine the embryo, the zona 'something or other' looks particulary thick and then they would suggest doing it. It may be that they suggest it on FET day if they think it needs it.

He doesn't think the fact that the transfer was difficult and uncomfortable for me means that it was technically a difficult transfer - if it was, it would have taken longer or they would have given me an anasthetic. He was surprised that the Dr doing the transfer didn't know about my vaginismus because it's plainly there in my notes, as is my write up about the mock transfer. Anyway, he said as it was obviously difficult for me, he feels that seeing a 'friendly face' would be better for me and that when I have a transfer date I'm to email him and he will come and do my transfer whether he's on the rota to do them that day or not - bless him 

He said whilst they can do immune tests, it's obviously not cheap and nothing jumps out after just 1 failed cycle to make him think it's necessary at the moment, likewise with steroids after transfer or DHEA.

He says it makes sense to do FET first and it will only delay us by 1 month if we end up needing another full cycle, but could save us a lot of money if it works. 

He wants me to wait until Jan to do the FET as he wants me to give my body a month's rest. That disappointed me a little bit, but then there's so much going on over the next few months (joint 70th party at ours for my mum and dad, nativity play that I'm in charge of at school, terry has a tribunal court case about his redundancy and then of course christmas) so it makes sense really.

So we're going with a non-medicated FET in Jan - he's sending the portocol info out to me in the post and if we have to go for another fresh cycle, he said he wouldn't change anything as it would only be 'tweaking' it for the sake of it as everything up to transfer went brilliantly.

Oh and apparently their clinic have a 90% success rate in thawing blastocysts because they only freeze top quality ones.

So I guess now I just have to shift this cycle's extra weight (plus a bit extra), enjoy christmas and hope the new year brings us a :baby:


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## Dancergirl

Hey all, I haven't been on here for a long time. As some may remember, we ended up doing IUI with Donor sperm and after 4 failed attempts, it finally worked the 5th time! Choosing a donor can be very difficult and now I am wondering what this miracle baby inside me looks like. 

My due date is next Wed. (16th) and I am anxiously waiting to meet the little boy moving inside me. My heart breaks as I continue to read the stories you are all going through. My thoughts and prayers will continue to go out to you all as you deal with this trial we have all had to cope with.


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## Pamplemousse

Hi Ladies,

Wow, so much news in the last few days.

Deb111: How are you doing? I guess January is in fact not that far off, just two months. Glad to hear that your consultant is considerate to what you have been through!

Tigerlily: Good luck for your TESE in February. It is great news that you get 3 NHS cycles in your area, alas, for me it is just the one, but more on that below!

Wibble Wobble: I just can't believe that things will take longer for you. How are you feeling about it now? I really hope for all of us that this is one of our last Christmases without children, regardless of how they come to us.

Antoinette: Welcome!!!! I hope you find lots of support here. This has forum has been a life saver for me and somehow, I feel less alone going through this PANTS time.


Mobaby: Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!

AFM: So... the good news is that there is not suggestion of a genetic disorder with DH. His FHS level is 22.7, which although is higher than the norm, it is not worringly so. Although the Consultant advised to err on the side of caution and would suggest the issue is production rather than plumbing!

Our next step will be a PESE to see if there is anything to be obtained. We are now being referred to Southampton Hospital and our Consultant there will let us know whether they freeze from the first PESE or whether they will conduct another one in connection with boosting me up.

After a very deep and meaningful converstion DH and I have decided that we will not take the sperm donor route. In our area we are only entitled to one round of NHS. Again, after much discussion we have decided that if it does not work the first time then we will move on to adoption. Although we could get the money together for private I just don't know if I have the strength of emotion to go through another round if the first fails. Oddly, DH and I know quite a few adopted people and we have decided that we just want to get cracking with raising a family.

As you all know the decisions you have to make when faced with this situation are decisions that you never expected to have to make. They are made with a mixture of sadness, anger and relief (which is strange). I just keep thinking that 2012 is going to be a hell of a year for me, but by the end of it I will know which way my children will be coming to me, and that feels me with so much excitement!!

So, onwards with trying to balance 'keeping postive' combined with 'not getting my hopes up'. Agghhhhh!!!!!


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## MoBaby

Deb: Glad you had your review and have plans to transfer the 1 back. Sounds like they are hopeful!
DH did not have to undergo any procedure because he had a sample that had 600,000 swimmers (he has flucutating azo apparently) in it so we talked with the uro and RE and we went ahead and froze a sample (they said they would freeze the eggies if no sperm on day of retrevial and plan for the TESE which what we originally were going to do but we were not on board 100% with that just yet)... They initially said freezing a sample would not be beneficial because none would survive.... BUT I am here to tell you all that THEY DID SURVIVE!!! The fresh sample had few and far between swimmers so they used the frozen and here is our fertilization report:

20 eggies
17 mature
3 immature
14 fertilized normal
1 fertilized abnormal and 
2 did not fertilize


SO they said Monday for the transfer which will be a 5 day transfer, but they are going to call tomorrow in case there is a change and they can tell which 2 are the best I am getting excited but nervous! 

I am sooo glad we were able to use that frozen stuff because if not, who knows if we would have any. 

Pample: sounds like things are starting to come together!! How exciting :) Good luck in the upcoming weeks!


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## Deb111

Wow Dancer, time seems to have flown by - I can't believe you're nearly there! Good luck :baby: xx

MoBaby - that's great news - looking forward to hearing how they develop :thumbup:

Hope you're all doing ok.

Oh and I'm sure she wont mind me saying, because her friend has posted it in her journal - but Jo (Flake-y) went in for an induction yesterday afternoon I think it was - no more news yet xx


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## Pink Lolly

Hi All

Sorry I haven't been on this thread for such a long time and I'm very sad to see so many news names here since my last visit :hugs:

I haven't had time to read back over all of your posts to see what your situations are but thought I'd re-post a snap shot of my situation and there is a link to my journal below with the full story as it may help some of you along the way.

So basically DH was diagnosed with Azoo in November 2010 and we were devestated beyond explanation (a feeling I know you will all be familiar with). Thankfully I found this thread and some insipartional girls like Deb111 who is an azoo expert and has helped me so much along the way! 

Several hospital appointments later and lots of tests Doctors told us that they felt the cause was that DH had an undescended testicle corrected at 5/6 years - all of his results were fine so they were confident that they would be able to retieve sperm through the other testicle using SSR. DH had PESA and TESE in August 2011 and unfortunately that wasn't the case. They only found very immatture sperm (Maturation Arrest) and said the cause was unknown but possibly genetic. Obviously we were devestated again. Anyway onwards and upwards - we had already decided to use Donor Sperm beforehand if the worst had happened as we both want a family so much. We are now about to start our first IUI in about 10 days time! I'm nervously excited to be finally starting and I know we are both a little apprehensive! It has certianly been an emotional rollercoaster and I'm sure there are more peaks and troughs to face yet!

Anyway my heart goes out to you and I wish you lots of success whatever stage of your journeys you're at. I will definitely check in here more often from now on! xxxx


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## Deb111

So excited that the next stage of your journey is almost here PL :happydance: How are you feeling?

Just a quick update - HUGE CONGRATS TO JO (Flake-y) both her and :baby: doing well. I will leave her to update more when she gets a chance

MoBaby - will be thinking of you on Monday and keeping everything crossed

Hope everyone else is doing ok xx


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## Pink Lolly

Yes massive congrats to jo!! Looks like her gorgeous little boy was worth the wait! Xx


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## cosita

Hi girls, I don't have any news to update just that today I found out one of my best friends is in the same boat. I couldn't believe it. We live in different cities and hadn't spoken in a while, mainly cos I was waiting for her to drop her news (we both started trying around the same time)...its her birthday next week and she is having a get together and while I was looking forward to it, I was a bit apprehensive...waiting for her news. Well today she sent me an email with the news I really wasnt expecting. I now realise that I have been making an effort not to speak to my friends as I don't want the subject to come up. in her email she said 'I hope you'd tell me if you are pregnant'. So I guess she had been thinking the very same thing. 
I dont know the ins and outs of it yet. I just know that its very hard for her to talk about it and even worse for her dh. What are the odds, to be accompanied in this horrible situation by my sister and one of my best friends. I guess its good in a way but I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Hugs to all.


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## Deb111

cosita said:


> Hi girls, I don't have any news to update just that today I found out one of my best friends is in the same boat. I couldn't believe it. We live in different cities and hadn't spoken in a while, mainly cos I was waiting for her to drop her news (we both started trying around the same time)...its her birthday next week and she is having a get together and while I was looking forward to it, I was a bit apprehensive...waiting for her news. Well today she sent me an email with the news I really wasnt expecting. I now realise that I have been making an effort not to speak to my friends as I don't want the subject to come up. in her email she said 'I hope you'd tell me if you are pregnant'. So I guess she had been thinking the very same thing.
> I dont know the ins and outs of it yet. I just know that its very hard for her to talk about it and even worse for her dh. What are the odds, to be accompanied in this horrible situation by my sister and one of my best friends. I guess its good in a way but I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Hugs to all.

When you say she's in the same boat, do you mean struggling to conceive or azoospermia? Whichever it is, whilst it is hard to think of anyone having to go through this, at least you will be able to talk to each and help each other. Being able to talk to someone who is going through the same is invaluable xx


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## froliky2011

Hi Everyone. My DH has azoospermia too. We have a known donor and are going to co-parent the child (all three of us). We have hired an attorney who is an expert in this field and has experience with different situations. We are excited!


----------



## silverbell

wibble wobble said:


> afm got some info from a girl who is needing donor sperm from the clinic I'm also at, she got told that there is a 1 year wait... gutted doesn't even come close to how thats made me feel.

I'm so sorry, wibble. They told us that it's quite fast where we live. We've been saving up like mad things since we started TTC and we stepped it up a gear when we got DH's diagnosis 5 months ago, as we knew it was likely we'd need all this money in our quest to get a child. Thank heavens we did, as we just want to get cracking now. 

Is there any way you can get the money loaned to you by a relative? It seems so unfair that so many of us couples get into financial difficulties or, worse, delay our lives due to this diagnosis. I wish I could make it all magically happen for each of us. Sending you lots of :hugs:

MoBaby - congrats on the egg collection and fertilisation. I hope the transfer went just as well today. Sending you lots of :dust:



Deb111 said:


> Trying to look on the positive side for those of you who are facing a long wait ... We were told if men had been diagnosed with azoospermia 10 years ago (maybe a bit longer now), there wouldn't have been any options other than donor sperm or adoption. Obviously ICSI, microTESE etc are oretty new. Medical advancements are happening all the time - so who knows in a year or 2 what further advancements will be available to help you get your dream? :hugs:

That's so lovely and definitely food for thought :thumbup:



Deb111 said:


> So I realised that I haven't updated about our review appt on here - afrid I've been lazy and copied it across from my journal
> 
> So basically the consultant was very pleased with our cycle in terms of number and quality of eggs, my response, fetilisation etc but obviously we didn't get the outcome we wanted
> 
> He said his job can be the best job sometimes, but in cases like mine; it can be the worst job, because everything was as good as it could be on paper, but there's not a damn thing they can do about it once they transfer it back
> 
> He said the usual reason why embryos don't implant is because they were not genetically normal embryos, but that doesn't mean that the 3rd one from the same 'batch' will be the same.
> 
> He says he doesn't think assisted hatching will be necessary and the clinics stats don't really show any difference, unless when they examine the embryo, the zona 'something or other' looks particulary thick and then they would suggest doing it. It may be that they suggest it on FET day if they think it needs it.
> 
> He doesn't think the fact that the transfer was difficult and uncomfortable for me means that it was technically a difficult transfer - if it was, it would have taken longer or they would have given me an anasthetic. He was surprised that the Dr doing the transfer didn't know about my vaginismus because it's plainly there in my notes, as is my write up about the mock transfer. Anyway, he said as it was obviously difficult for me, he feels that seeing a 'friendly face' would be better for me and that when I have a transfer date I'm to email him and he will come and do my transfer whether he's on the rota to do them that day or not - bless him
> 
> He said whilst they can do immune tests, it's obviously not cheap and nothing jumps out after just 1 failed cycle to make him think it's necessary at the moment, likewise with steroids after transfer or DHEA.
> 
> He says it makes sense to do FET first and it will only delay us by 1 month if we end up needing another full cycle, but could save us a lot of money if it works.
> 
> He wants me to wait until Jan to do the FET as he wants me to give my body a month's rest. That disappointed me a little bit, but then there's so much going on over the next few months (joint 70th party at ours for my mum and dad, nativity play that I'm in charge of at school, terry has a tribunal court case about his redundancy and then of course christmas) so it makes sense really.
> 
> So we're going with a non-medicated FET in Jan - he's sending the portocol info out to me in the post and if we have to go for another fresh cycle, he said he wouldn't change anything as it would only be 'tweaking' it for the sake of it as everything up to transfer went brilliantly.
> 
> Oh and apparently their clinic have a 90% success rate in thawing blastocysts because they only freeze top quality ones.
> 
> So I guess now I just have to shift this cycle's extra weight (plus a bit extra), enjoy christmas and hope the new year brings us a :baby:

Sorry you have to wait a bit, Deb, but it sounds like he knows just what he's talking about and it's a great plan. I'm going to keep everything crossed that January is your time :hugs:



Dancergirl said:


> Hey all, I haven't been on here for a long time. As some may remember, we ended up doing IUI with Donor sperm and after 4 failed attempts, it finally worked the 5th time! Choosing a donor can be very difficult and now I am wondering what this miracle baby inside me looks like.
> 
> My due date is next Wed. (16th) and I am anxiously waiting to meet the little boy moving inside me. My heart breaks as I continue to read the stories you are all going through. My thoughts and prayers will continue to go out to you all as you deal with this trial we have all had to cope with.

Congrats, Dancergirl. :blue:



Pamplemousse said:


> As you all know the decisions you have to make when faced with this situation are decisions that you never expected to have to make. They are made with a mixture of sadness, anger and relief (which is strange). I just keep thinking that 2012 is going to be a hell of a year for me, but by the end of it I will know which way my children will be coming to me, and that feels me with so much excitement!!
> 
> So, onwards with trying to balance 'keeping postive' combined with 'not getting my hopes up'. Agghhhhh!!!!!

That's great that you have a plan, Pample. I know precisely what you mean with your last sentence. It's horrible, isn't it? I'm glad you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel though and it's a lovely thought that you'll be finding out which way your children will be coming to you :cloud9:

Congrats to Flake-y :dance:

Sorry to see so many newbies on here :nope:

But I'm glad that you've all found this place. I hope your journeys here are short, successful ones.

AFM - nothing much to report. Got my gynae appointment this Thursday and going to ask her to refer me to the Fertility Centre so I can get the ball rolling for either ICSI and IVF or IUI if DH's mTESE in January is unsuccessful. Still having lots of 'it's so unfair' days.


----------



## cosita

Deb, Well I´m not sure to be honest as she didnt go into it, but they have male infertility problems, thats all she told me. They were told it was next to impossible to have children. I felt like she had thrown me back to 1970! Thanks to all you girls I was able to tell her that there are options and to never say never. Unfortunately she has issues too, so they are dealing with both factors. It was nice to talk about it though. 
This a great place and I know I don't post that often as I struggle remembering each persons story and I don't want to put my foot in it! 
But thanks to all of you. :flower:


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## Deb111

Welcome froliky - I'm glad you have a plan - it always helps. Hoping your journey is a short one 

Hope everyone is ok xx


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## MoBaby

Hey frolicky, welcome. 

Transfer went well :) 2 beautiful embryos put back. Now just a waiting game. Im a little crampy. But otherwise feel good. Lying in bed for now.


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## Deb111

So glad all went well MoBaby. When is OTD? Make sure you take it easy xx


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## silverbell

MoBaby said:


> Hey frolicky, welcome.
> 
> Transfer went well :) 2 beautiful embryos put back. Now just a waiting game. Im a little crampy. But otherwise feel good. Lying in bed for now.

Very pleased to hear this, frolicky. Great news indeed :dust:


----------



## MoBaby

Deb111 said:


> So glad all went well MoBaby. When is OTD? Make sure you take it easy xx

I think 11/23 (14 days from er which was 11/9)....we'll see if I can hold out without poas before then! Lol :)


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## froliky2011

Thank you all so much! This is definitely not easy, but I know it will all be worth it. Keeping the faith & hope. Luckily we live in a time when the definition of family is not longer what it was in the 50s. :) However, it has been tough finding a doctor who would inseminate (known donor is keeping their parental rights) and an expert attorney who could draft up all the correct legal documents. The IVF docs would not inseminate me without a consent from the known donor (it was very complicated legal issues due to the donor statute where we live). I made several calls trying to find the right attorney and the comments were less than pleasant. People are very judgmental and closed minded unfortunately. Children need love, shelter, good, respect, etc. As long as those important things are in place and everyone is reasonable, respectful, loving, compassionate and puts the children's needs first, etc. it will all work out fine. Thanks for letting me get this out. What a journey. Baby Dust to you all!!!! Hugs!!!!!


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## Sar187

MissAma-That is great that they will wait for payment!

Tiger-I'm hoping you get good news when DH gets his TESE done! That is great that you get 3 cycles.

Silverbell-So glad to hear that you have a date!

Wibble-Sorry to hear there could be such a long wait for you. 

Antoinette-Welcome to the group and good luck with your journey!

Cosita-I would definitely make sure that he gets checked for retrograde ejaculation. As deb said I believe he just has to give a semen sample, and then directly after a urine sample. Since he has some of the signs it could definitely be worthwhile to mention.

Mobaby-Glad the Retrieval and Transfer went well for you! I hope the 2ww doesn't treat you too badly! Were you able to freeze the rest of your embryos?

Antoinette-I haven't heard of anyone over here having that much of a wait, I have talked to a few other ladies and within a month of deciding on donor they had their vials of sperm and did their IUI. Over here the donor sperm is about $785 a vial on the high end and that includes shipping. I'm not sure how that converts though.

Deb-I'm glad your follow up went well. I am hoping the FET works for you! Your consultant is definitely correct that the first 2 failing definitely does not mean your 3rd embryo is not perfectly healthy. I am kind of surprised they are not recommending Assisted hatching, our clinic does assisted hatching for all of those who have a failed cycle, and there have been a few studies done showing that assisted hatching actually makes an embryo that has been frozen more likely to implant. I know of several other clinics here that have the same policy. Maybe it is just the difference between the UK and the US. Either way I think you have a good chance though! I'm sure the break with actually end up doing you some good. Everyone I know that has ended up with a forced break between cycles has been thankful for it in the end.

Dancer-I hope everything goes well. It will be wonderful for you to meet your little one!

Pample-I am thinking you are meaning PESA or TESE. If your DH is doing PESA, just be aware that it is a completely blind retrieval of sperm from the epididymis, and in some cases does not give a clear picture, as your DH could be producing sperm in his testicles and it is not making it into his epididymis. This case would return no sperm with PESA but would return sperm with TESE. Good Luck!

Pink Lolly-Glad to hear you have a plan. Your IUI will be here before you know it!

Congrats to Jo! 

Froliky-Welcome!

AFM-Meds arrived today for cycle #2! Lupron starts on thursday! I am starting to get excited about this cycle now. I have decided to try to step back a bit and just have life have its way. I am feeling very positive about this cycle and about things in general. I started Reiki last week which I enjoyed immensely. If this cycle doesn't work then I have confidence that I will be directed where to go next. Retrieval will be on December 9th, less than a month and I'm sure it will be here before I know it!

Sorry I missed anyone and hope everyone else is doing well!


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## MoBaby

Sar: they just called and said none were good enough for freezing :(


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## Sar187

Mo-So sorry to hear that :(. Just remember that doesn't mean anything about the 2 you transferred. Those are the 2 best ones and they are in the best place possible! Hoping you get your BFP!


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## WANBMUM

Wow this thread has been so busy the last few days, I cant keep up.

Can I ask a question about donor sperm? for those that know. 

Are there legitimate companies that deliver donor sperm for home insemination? Rather than IUI? 
What are the pro's and con's?

I am not planning on doing this, I am more curious and want to know ALL of our options.


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## wibble wobble

Hi everyone

Mobaby sorry to hear you didn't get any frosties but try to stay positive about the 2 embies that are taking up a 9 month residence in you right now

Wanbmum sorry can't help with companies that deliver sperm, I'm not sure if any of them are legit tbh. 1 of the downsides would be that your partner would not have legal responsibility for a child conceived this way, can you be sure that donors to these kind of companies go through the same tests as sperm bank donors for example gene defects they may have

Sar in the UK if we pay for treatment it can go ahead as soon as you've arranged for a donor. A lot of people are NHS funded and at the minute (because of a change in the law a few years ago,meaning donors can no longer remain anonymous) there is a shortage of men willing to donate it doesn't affect all areas and clinics. I think it's mainly clinics like mine which have only had their own sperm bank for a short time. 

Froliky welcome to the thread, sounds like you've had a real tough time getting everything sorted ready for your treatment. Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to what a family unit should consist of.... I think it's great that your future child will have an extra parent in his/her life 

afm I saw the consultant today, I didn't get an answer on the waiting list for donor sperm I'll get that when I go next time. It was positive though we got an information pack with all the neccessary forms to fill in,we've been forwarded for counselling and should hear from them in the next week or so. I've had all the forms to repeat blood tests for hormone profiles (my Gp did cd2/3 and cd21 from separate cycles which the clinic doesn't like) and they're doing an AMH test too. All of this should be complete by christmas so hopefully I'll get in to see the consultant in early January. I didn't think so much would happen at this appointment so I'm actually really happy :)


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## Sar187

wibble-I figured that it was due to the NHS system that there was such a wait. I really feel for you guys having to wait so long for all of this stuff to get done! There are definitely pros and cons. Glad to hear your appointment accomplished a lot! I hope things continue to move along for you!


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## wibble wobble

I'm so impatient.... only got referred to counselling yesterday and today I'm already waiting for the appointment to turn up!!!! I just can't help myself and I've started counting down the days until my blood tests.... weird or what, but as my cycles are no longer the average 28 days, 1 month it'll be 30 days the next 32 and they seem to alternate all I have is a rough estimate on the countdown


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## Deb111

Not weird at all wibble. This journey is just one long waiting list most of the time and so any appt to work towards helps to pass the time and make you feel one step closer xx :hugs:


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## waitingginger

hi all,

its been a while since i posted on here and am sorry to see new members but also happy they found the group for support!!

well an overview of where we are up to:
Diagnosed azoospermia in April 2010
we had a long wait for appointments and scans etc before finally seeing a fertility specalist in April 2011 we were reffered to an endocronologist as there seemed to be issues with my OHs hormone levels. OH was asked to provide regular SAs and blood tests over a 6 month period, which he did, his SAs seemed to show a jump in sperm production to 4.5 million. still no where near enough to get pregnant naturally but a start. however when we went back to see the endocronologist he couldnt give us any info on the quality etc or why his SA results flucuated so much and refused to refer us for any treatment. so i dont know if the good SA result was just a fluke or if the sperm is any good for ICSI.

oh has to give regular SAs and blood tests for another 6 months now. to again monitor what is going on. our next appointment is in March 2012 nearly 2 years after being diagnosed and still not even close to any treatment or any answers.
during our last appointment they couldnt of had us in or out any quicker, they didnt want to answer any questions.

i see so many stories of the shocking care infertile couples seem to get i really think medical staff should have to go through training so that they can understand the importance of these appointments to couples struggling with infertility. 

I hope everyone is well!


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## Step Mummy

Hi ladies, although I often visit, I don't actually make many posts, except to keep an update on what is happening with us. But I do like to keep up to date on everyone who is going through the same tough journey as us.

Some of you may recall we were diagnosed nearly 2 years ago with Azoo..., and DH had the SSR op in September 2010 and caught an infection which lasted until April 11. Once he recovered we started to deal with using a donor, which we both really struggled with, it took me a few months to come to terms with this before I could start to look at donors. We started the IUI with donor in August and have now had our 3 goes and all have failed. 

We went in for our follow-up consultation and I have been told that I now have a low egg reserve - low AMH - which was a complete shock, as all tests before had been fine and I was given a clean bill of fertility health. It seems that the company they were using for tests over a year go were providing incorrect results, and it seems my results must have been a false "normal", when they should have showed up "low". We are completely shocked about this, had we known we may not have taken so long coming to terms with using a donor and giving us time, we would have probably forced ourselves to get on with it last year. They say I am ok as long as we do IUI because this is using natural supply of eggs, but if we need to go into IVF if the IUI fails another 3 times, then we may face problems. There is then the choice, do we go with IUI using natural eggs which are now valuable or go into IVF straight away to make use of the eggs left. Also there will be issues if we wanted a 2nd child later on - so should we IVF now to save some emryos for second child (after getting PG now) - although I think we will be lucky enough to get one baby!

I am just so shocked at this news, also I think I am in denial about the 3 goes have been and gone without a positive response. Because I was told I was fine, I never really imagined needing more than 3 goes.

So now we have to have a 2 month break, this month because of the tube check, and next month because my proceedure would be due on or around xmas day and they are closed.

Just can't believe it - when you think it can't get any worse - oh it does!!!!

Thinking of you all, it's just such a roller coaster - no one really understands who is not or has not been through it - do they?! It's good we all have each other and can see that we are not alone. It also helps just writing it all down!

Keeping postive (well trying)! x


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## Pink Lolly

Hi step mummy and Ginger :wave:

Lovely to hear from you both.

Ginger - sorry you're still stuck in limbo land :hugs: how are thevwedding plans? At least that's a distraction.

Step mummy so sorry about your amh - shocking that they got it wrong first time. We are also about to start donor iui. Have your cycles been medicated? Please don't give up hope xxx


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## Deb111

So sorry step mummy - you could do without this! What is your AMH now? Have you had a scan to know how many follicles you have?

Ginger - lovely to hear from you. I'm sorry it seems so frustrating at the moment. Great news that hubby is producing some though. Can they not freeze what they find?


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## MJ73

Hi All,
I was wondering if it was ok if I joined you all? (The club that no-one wants to be a member of lol)...Firstly I wanted to say a massive thanks to *Deb* for starting this thread, we have been on this journey for a while now & this is by far the most intelligent, caring & informed group that I have found. I have read every post on this thread now, so feel like I have been on the journey with you all. 
A little (ok, *alot*) about me; my DH was diagnosed with Azoospermia in September 2010 & I can safely say that it was one of the most devastating pieces of news that I have ever received. We had only been TTC for 4 months (we were married in April 2010 but due to my age we didn't want to wait around) when I had been tracking my cycle & was pretty sure that I was ovulating & were were timing DTD to precision, but still nothing. I just had a gut feeling that something was not right with DH's swimmers, so I convinced him to do a SA, expecting that it may come back with a low number or poor morph but never imagined that the results would come back as *zero*. 
We too had a GP who was ill informed & helped us feel even more hopeless by informing us that there was basically NO hope & that our only option for a child would be to use donor sperm or adopt. Now that I know what I know (and I started researching on the internet instantly) I am furious that GPs seem to know nothing about TESE or ICSI or that it is even possible to extract testicular sperm, let alone the fact that some men with Azoos do go on to father children through this procedure. As is the case with many of you ladies I was the driving force; researching & getting a referral to a Urologist (who was hopeless) then eventually a referral to our beautiful Fertility Specialist.
In the end DH was diagnosed with NOA (Non-Obstructive Azoos) although he does have a Cystic Fybrosis Gene Mutation that is thought to be responsible for the problem, he also has one undescended testicle that was not repaired as a child which probably doesn't help matters. In december 2010 he had a TESE which found some sperm (phew) which were put on ice for our IVF/ICSI cycle in March. However the sperm died upon defrost, something that we were told is very common for testicular sperm. (Our scientist explained to us that with a normal frozen sample well over half the sperm dies upon defrost & that the unfortunate thing with testicular sperm is that there are so few, so the odds of them surviving the thaw are slim.)
In March, my side of the cycle went very well & like I said our frozen sperm did not survive, so DH had to go through his trauma again (in Aus, it is all done under a local, not general aneasthetic), this time they did 16 needle aspirations & eventually had to do surgical retrieval to find swimmers. They retrived 12 eggies from me, 10 were mature, 8 fertilised & 3 made it to 5 day A grade hatching blastocysts. 1 was put in & 2 were put on ice (our clinic prefers to do single embryo transfers). From this cycle I did (surprisingly) achieve a BFP, however suffered a very complicated miscarriage (was in hospital for 3 days) at 6 weeks, the day our heartbeat scan would have been due:cry:
We are just at day 10 of a natural frozen cycle to use one of our frosties so all we can do is hope & wait.
*Deb* the video journal that you did is amazing, DH & I both watched it last night; I sobbed & he got teary too. I need this group, I need to know that we are not alone, that there are other couples out there who are going through this horrible, testing journey. If we must endure this, at least we do not have to do it alone. Who else can ever understand how sad it is to watch the man you love lose his sense of self & doubt his masculinity? My Dh feels too that he is 'not a real man' anymore. We too went from having sex almost daily to once a month if we're lucky. Yet, our relationship has grown stronger & we have grown closer. It does sometimes feel like it's US against THE WORLD... I have read all your stories with tears in my eyes & thank you all for your honest sharing.
I'll sign off for now, thanks so much for listening Sorry for the looong post. Great to 'meet' you all.
MJ:flower:


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## MissAma

MJ73 said:


> my DH was diagnosed with Azoospermia in September 2010 & I can safely say that it was one of the most devastating pieces of news that I have ever received. We had only been TTC for 4 months (we were married in April 2010 but due to my age we didn't want to wait around) when I had been tracking my cycle & was pretty sure that I was ovulating & were were timing DTD to precision, but still nothing. I just had a gut feeling that something was not right with DH's swimmers, so I convinced him to do a SA, expecting that it may come back with a low number or poor morph but never imagined that the results would come back as *zero*.
> We too had a GP who was ill informed & helped us feel even more hopeless by informing us that there was basically NO hope & that our only option for a child would be to use donor sperm or adopt. Now that I know what I know (and I started researching on the internet instantly) I am furious that GPs seem to know nothing about TESE or ICSI or that it is even possible to extract testicular sperm, let alone the fact that some men with Azoos do go on to father children through this procedure.

MJ - hello there mate! Glad to have you here. Of what you wrote before, if you replace that with our respective dates -2008- then I could have written word per word. Or maybe have even done so. The gut feeling, the shock about zero, the suggestion to adopt, all of it. And even the short lived BFP after the first cycle. Except we had no frosties and had to do it all over again ages later. But as you can see on the left side of this post even IDENTICAL stories have happy endings :)

You did however scare me with the sperm thaw story and what the specialist said -we tend to believe all things Aussie, we're in the process to immigrate to Perth :)- because we are going to try that this time around.



Step Mummy said:


> It seems that the company they were using for tests over a year go were providing incorrect results, and it seems my results must have been a false "normal", when they should have showed up "low".

Stepmom - that is utterly shocking! I am SO enraged for you, can you sue the laboratory for mental distress? I would!



waitingginger said:


> oh has to give regular SAs and blood tests for another 6 months now. to again monitor what is going on. our next appointment is in March 2012 nearly 2 years after being diagnosed and still not even close to any treatment or any answers.!

Hmmm you're a much better person than I am, I'm more in MJ's impatience boat, I could never wait for them to observe some more, would just jump into ICSI. Have they performed a TESE and frozen any? Is there any reason why you can't get on the IVF waiting list already? In awe of your patience!

Debs - how's you babes?

MoBaby - fingers very crossed!

Silverbell, Wiggle, Sar and everyone else - many :hugs:s!

AFM - we gave blood for new screening (infection, hepatitis, etc, only valid for 2 years and this is the third time we have to do them basically!) today and as I said on my FB status "this is as close as us infertiles get to a morning romp, ya'll!" 

We're likely going to do the ball slashing road trip first week of December and after reading MJ's account about non thawing I am beyond bricking it that something will go wrong and there will be no more sper. As you know when they do SSR they extract tissue and there are only so many extractions before they have no more tissue with spermatogenesis and we already had 2.

Nonetheless I am excited, you girls know how it is, we're a special breed, we're pregnant from the day we started researching the clinic and certainly once we start appointments and injecting, we don't have the rose petals wine fueled romantic night to define when we should start thinking baby but the constant worry and longing and then feeling that if treatment is in progress baby is on its very long way to us... But how exciting is it that for all our pains next year this baby that we talk of now in only theory will be a real person in our bellies or in our arms? :happydance:


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## waitingginger

Hi MJ! so sorry you have had to join and so sorry to hear about your loss!! it really does feel like your against the world doesnt it! we are the same so much closer but almost on a different level because you are going through something that most people can ever understand and you just have to cling to each other! i think its a hard transition going from having sex to make a baby to going back to it being all for enjoyment again when really both your hearts are breaking! my Oh seems like a different person sometimes so much quieter and withdrawn with every body else! 

My oh saw a programme i had recorded about a lady whose husband was infertile on sky and he saw it on the planner and read the description and said i am not infertile am i? my heart could of broke for him, i think he doesnt really think about it he just has such a strong determination we will have a child.

Deb, i am assuming they could freeze some pserm although this hasnt been mentioned to us i am assuming they will of just thrown that batch away and moved on to counting the next lot! god help them if it drops back to 0 i will be on the warparth lol! i am assuming if its stays around 4.5mil we will have icsi or ivf. 

wedding plans are coming along well, its a nice distraction my spending may of got a bit out of control but hey this wedding is my baby for now lol!

xxx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, thanks for the positive thoughts.

Deb 11 - I have now done three IUI cycles and the folicles are all growing fine, we had one fully grown on two of the goes and two fully grown on the second go. So that side of things is fine. It seems it's the reserve that is in short supply, so I am fine going forward with more IUI goes because you only want 1 folicle each month, but if this doesn't work and we end up with IVF then we may struggle to produce multiple folicles/eggs.

Pink Lolly - My IUI cycles have all been medicated with Ovidrel and Gonal-F. Don't worry about doing these, your natural instinct takes over that you just have to get on with it, and actually it doesn't hurt, the only pain was that twice it stang, but I think that was because I did it right under my belly button both those times, but it was pain free more to the side in my nice roll of fat I have been growing! Also the procedure is more a less pain free, just a little crampy thats all.

I am not sure of the AMH figure, I was in too much shock to ask for figures, but she said it is "Low".
I have my Tube scan on Thursday next week, I just hope that shows up ok, or I will lose the plot!!!

MJ - Welcome to the group - It sounds like you have had a really tought journey, you poor things having to have to SSR's. I don't know how we all survive and keep going - my thoughts are with you.


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## Deb111

Welcome MJ and thank you for your lovely words :hugs: I really appreciate the kind things you said about me starting this thread (it came at a good time when I have been feeling down and made me realise that at least one good thing has come out of this awful journey - the thread and the great friends I have made on it) But that is all I really did; start it. It is all the wonderful girls who have sadly needed to join the thread who have kept it going and made it the wonderfully, supportive thread which it has developed into. I'm glad you sound to already feel 'at home' here. 

Step Mummy - try and find out what your AMH level is. Mine is very low for my age - I know we have a different scale in the UK, but I was told at age 35, it should be about 10 and at age 40, it should be about 5. I'm 37 and mine is 1.4 :nope: I don't know about IUI, but when I was scanned pre-cycle, I only had a total of 5 follilces - again, not good news when you think that in an IVF cycle, they don't all necessarily produce an egg, not all are mature and not all fertilise or develop. However, with the stims, I grew 8 follicles, got 8 great, mature eggs and 3 fertilised - all to a great standard. Ok - it didn't result in that lovely :bfp:, but that was just down to the odds. Low fertility / AMH is not an end to it all.

MissAma - very exciting about things progressing so soon with the SSR. I must admit, I kind of knew that you quite often lose a lot of sperm on thawing, but MJ's post reminded me - and it is a concern of mine, especially as I think we only have something like 30 ish frozen. however, I have to remind myself that we only need 1 per egg and we were told by Mr Ramsay that actually the ones that don't survive are the ones that wouldn't have been strong enough or good enough anyway, so at least it saves them injecting sperm that may not be the best. I'm not having a great week to be honest, just feeling that everything in life is an uphill struggle and my Jan FET seems miles away (although I know it's just my impatience and it will be here before I know it :dohh:)

Ginger - I really would get them to freeze some of the sperm they're finding, at least as a back-up, especially as they don't seem to know how or why your dh's sperm level keeps changing :hugs:

Love to you all xx


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## wibble wobble

Welcome to the thread Mj you've definately found the best place for advice and information (and also support) for azoospermia. 

Hi Stepmummy hope you get a clear result on your tube scan next week. And that you get some good advice regarding low AMH/IVF or iui to help you make the best choice for you.

Waitingginger good luck with your wedding plans, When's the big day?

Missama good luck for the ball slashing hope it's a 3rd time extra lucky

Big waves to everyone

afm nothing new to report, still waiting for the counselling appointment to arrive. Oh and I'm praying af doesn't arrive late as day 21 (for next cycle)currently falls dec 22/23 which I think is close enough to christmas as it is. just out of curiosity my cycles now alternate between 30 and 32 days what day is best for the '21' day progesterone test to show the most accurate result


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## MJ73

Hi Ladies,
Thanks so much for the warm welcome, it is a great source of comfort to have found you all. 
*MissAma*, it sounds like we have had a similar experience & you are so lucky to be a Mum to a beautiful bubba. I wouldn't worry too much about what the scientist told us about sperm. We were dealing with VERY small numbers. We had 3 'straws' frozen, one had 8 sperm in it & the other 2 each had 13 sperm, so we were talking very small numbers. Fingers crossed that you have more success. Are you definitely moving to Perth? I've never been to Perth, but my Hubby tells me it's a beautiful city.

Hi *WaitingGinger*, nice to meet you. My DH also seems like a different person in a way too, sad hey? Last cycle when I told him we had a BFP he said "I think my ball just tingled" :winkwink:lol. Whilst it was short lived, it was lovely for a while to see him have a spring back in his step again. It's great that you have planning a wedding to distract you!

Hi *Step Mummy*, you & your poor DH have had such a tough time of it. I have really felt for your guys & all the pain & infection that you had to endure. It is SO hard seeing someone you love in so much pain. Whilst my DH's procedure went without drama, he still gets (as he puts it) 'ball pain' & he had his last procedure in March. I see that you have used donor sperm, I am sending loads of :dust:
your way!

*Deb*, thanks so much for the welcome. You're right, all the girls on this thread are lovely. Like I said, I've read every single post now, so feel like I know you all. I hope it's okay, I showed my Mum your video journal this morning & she was in tears. We both agreed that it is such a generous thing to share with the world. You sum up this whole experience so well. If I recall you are a Primary Teacher? Your students are lucky kids! Sorry you have been through such a difficult time lately :hugs:. IVF is one draining experience, isn't it?

Thanks for the welcome *Wibble Wobble*! I hope your counselling appt comes around quickly.

AFM, we had another BT & U/S yesterday & I _think_ everything is coming along ok. I am finding this unmedicated cycle so hard. I keep second guessing everything the nurses tell me each phone call. Basically all I want to know is that everything is on time & right for ovulation & that we can go ahead as planned. I am using my IVF relaxation CDs & am also having acupuncture (as I did last cycle) so am doing all I can, I guess. Other than that all I can do is hope & pray. 

Thanks again for the warm welcome, it is an honour to be among so many strong, courageous women :hugs: You girls rock!!


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## Deb111

Hi MJ - of course I don't mind you showing your mum the video. It isso hard for people who aren't going through something like this to understand, and the more people who can understand, even just a little bit; the better.

You sound like you're in the same position as us pretty much. We are having an unmedicated FET in January and it does feel a bit scary - my head tells me that medicated has to be better because they can control everything, but my clinic tells me that unmedicated is best if your cycles are normal and that there is no difference between the statistics so I have to go with what they say. They were spot on with everything else - it was out of their control once I had had transfer.

We also only have a tiny amount of sperm frozen, but for some reason they decided to freeze it in 1 vial. We have about 30 I think and I think their reasoning was that they will lose a lot of it when thawing, but I still can't help but think freezing it in several would have been better - ok, they may have had to thaw them all for one attempt, BUT we may have got lucky and they might not have needed to :shrug: Anyway, no point stressing about something we can't do anything about

So when are they aiming transfer for? xx


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## silverbell

wibble wobble said:


> just out of curiosity my cycles now alternate between 30 and 32 days what day is best for the '21' day progesterone test to show the most accurate result

I have 26-day cycles on average and was told to do my 'day 21' test on day 19. So I believe it's a week before your period would normally be due. I would do it as if you're having a 30-day cycle, so day 23 should be perfect. I could be wrong though - that's just what I was told.

MJ - welcome to the group nobody wants to join (that's soooo true!) I could identify with so much of what you had to say. :cry: I'm hoping your journey to be a parent is soon at its' end.


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## cosita

Hi girls, welcome MJ. Tomorrow we go back to doc for results of second SA and prolactin test among some other blood tests that they did. We aren't hoping for any news really, just expecting him to tell us it will be biopsy next. We are fine, I'm surprised how calm I am and how quickly we have adapted to this idea. Thats if we actually have adapted at all...its hard to know when whats been taken away from you is a wish, not a fact. 
Miss Ama:my doc also said he doesn't freeze sperm as the results aren't as good as with fresh sperm. How long between biopsies does anyone know? Cos if they do one and find but don't freeze, there is a waiting period between proceedures right? 
Night all, hope tomorrow is a good day for all (including me!!)
:hug:


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## wibble wobble

cosita said:


> Hi girls, welcome MJ. Tomorrow we go back to doc for results of second SA and prolactin test among some other blood tests that they did. We aren't hoping for any news really, just expecting him to tell us it will be biopsy next. We are fine, I'm surprised how calm I am and how quickly we have adapted to this idea. Thats if we actually have adapted at all...its hard to know when whats been taken away from you is a wish, not a fact.
> Miss Ama:my doc also said he doesn't freeze sperm as the results aren't as good as with fresh sperm. How long between biopsies does anyone know? Cos if they do one and find but don't freeze, there is a waiting period between proceedures right?
> Night all, hope tomorrow is a good day for all (including me!!)
> :hug:

Think they leave it 6 months between each biopsy... even if they find some sperm in the first sample there is no guarantee of finding sperm a 2nd time :growlmad:


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## cosita

Well, here's how it went. The SA results show less than 2million. The doc seems really optimistic about this but could not assure us the lab just isn't being specific and that maybe less than 2million means just 1 or 2. He doesn't think so but I just cannot believe it and don't want to get my hopes up. We are going to email the lab and ask them how they measure, we know they aren't going to put an exact number but maybe between 1 million and 2 million or under 1 million, you get the idea. Anyway we told him about the antidepressives dh had been taking 9 months ago and he basically said 'Say no more'. Basically he feels we really need to explore the possibility that the sperm is on the up. This may take a lot longer than the biopsy route but of course its much better long term. So he has prescribed him 'Androferti'...full of zinc and all such things and we have to go back in 2 months. The motility was 100% immobile.:nope:
For the moment we're not going to count ourselves out of azoospermia but its looking like we may have a few spermies to play with. 
Oh by the way, he also mentioned that most of their sperm donors are students and the norm is that during exam time their sperm counts drop to 0. Stress can kill sperm! 
So girls, while this is kinda good news (for the next 2 months anyways) we still have to focus on being patient. I feel that this is what will get us through this. 
:thumbup:


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## snd80

Hey girls! Long time since I have been on... welcome to all the newbies and hope everyone is doing good! :hugs:

So, alot has been going on in my world these past few weeks. Our house got broken into last Tues and my safe with every dime I had saved up for my appt in Jackson yesterday was stolen, not to mention our PS3 and our guns... plus they ransacked our poor house! You talk about one pissed lady! Especially over my "baby" money!!!!! That was the most devistating thing!!! *sigh* But thanks to my wonderful aunt, I was still able to make it to my appt yesterday! Yay! 

So, the dr. was super nice and said that everything looked good cycle wise and that I could proceed anytime I got ready. As far as my weight, he had no problems with it, but if I wanted to loose more weight before I did anything, he would be "my biggest cheerleader". He suggested I have a HSG done locally and have the results faxed to him just to be sure my tubes weren't blocked, gave me a script for clomid w/ 3 refills; said when I got ready to proceed, take the clomid the first month, have my progesterone checked one week after ovulation was detected and have the results faxed to him, then the next month be ready to get pg! LOL! I only hope it works out that easily... he did tell me when we got ready to order the sperm, to get the "unwashed" vials b/c they always wash them anyways, and that would shave off about $200 a vial! =) He also suggested ordering 3 vials when I order b/c shipping cost is the same as if I only ordered one, so that would also save me money.... he seemed very positive and my aunt (who is a RN) really liked him as well and said everything sounded very good, so I am extatic! So it is in my hands now... only we are thinking of waiting until May or June to do the first IUI, giving us time to build our funds back up after all the shit last week. But for now I am going to go ahead and book the HSG and get that (and the holidays) outta the way and get my big butt back in the gym. I had lost 4 lbs since last week when he weighed me yesterday and I have no idea how, unless it was all the stress (which made me start spotting on CD24 last week too). So, that's that.

Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving and thinking of all my "sisters" on here! :hugs:


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## mrsd1606

Hi ladies, i hope u dont mind me joining u, iv started reading this post last nigt and will get throught it all eventually :kiss:

well yesterday we had our 2nd fs appointment, following my lap. me & dh have been ttc conceive just coming up for 12 months (not very long i know), iv always had a feeling there was somthing wrong but assumed it was my side, i have very long cycles (between 45-90 days) anyway at our appointmnt were we were expecting to be given clomid, we wer told that dh's 1st SA showed 0 count and 2nd SA showed 2 million. :cry: im absalutly devastated. can anyone shed any light on what our chances of ivf/icsi with dh's sperm would be with these figures? and also is there anything we can do to increase this? as my fs started talking about DS, and its thrown me a little as this wasnt something that had entered my head, i was maybe expecting sa to be a little low but not 0 :cry:

im so scared bacause i know the rollercoaster weve got ahead of us, i have to go to work now and just dont know how im going to function as normal all day :cry:

thanks everyone in advance x


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## KB38

Hi, I've just spent over an hour reading back through the thread. 

I am so happy to hear things are moving so quickly for so many people. It is exciting to think that by this time next year, you guys will either be pregnant or have a little baby in your arms!

AFM, there's not much to report at the moment. DH and I are still going for weekly accupuncture and taking chinese herbs. We haven't really talked about when DH might take another test, probably in another few months time. We're going to Fiji for 5 nights on Saturday and I'm really looking forward to getting away from this year!!! I am hoping that it will be the start good things!


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## WANBMUM

hi silverbell - So sorry to hear about your poor house and belongings :( I am so glad to hear your ball is really rolling! I am so excited for you. It is great to hear your weight is not affecting you (i am overweight and worry so much that when the time comes they will refuse us treatment because of this)
Can I ask a question, you order the vials, your doc is not the one ordering the vials? Could they have done this for you? did they give you the option? (the reason I am asking is donor sperm in our country, there are not many donors, however I know there are companies internationally who will deliver but only to a medical centre/doctor)

Mrs D, sending you big hugs, this journey is so heartbreaking. Surely it only takes one little spermy? Have they told you why it went from 0 - 2 million? maybe it will go up again.

An update on ME: we have been told there is only a 10% chance that my OH can be fixed, they think there is too much damage. (my OH has scar tissue in both testes, 10% chance it can be fixed) He has another app in dec for a scan and they will give us their decision on whether it is worthwhile to operate. If not, our next option is donor :( dont get me wrong, if we have to use donor we will, but it will kill me and OH if we cant have 'his' baby :( it is so unfair, but we are not willing to give up, we will do whatever is necessary.


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## snd80

WANBMUM said:


> hi silverbell - So sorry to hear about your poor house and belongings :( I am so glad to hear your ball is really rolling! I am so excited for you. It is great to hear your weight is not affecting you (i am overweight and worry so much that when the time comes they will refuse us treatment because of this)
> Can I ask a question, you order the vials, your doc is not the one ordering the vials? Could they have done this for you? did they give you the option? (the reason I am asking is donor sperm in our country, there are not many donors, however I know there are companies internationally who will deliver but only to a medical centre/doctor)

Thanks sweetie! It is getting better day by day, I was just really scared to leave home the first few days, but I have an alarm system now, so it made it a little better. As far as the vials, I have to order them myself, but they only ship to the medical clinic. I asked them the same question too. LOL! But no, they said I had to do the ordering and it would ship to them and they would store them for me at a cost of $50 a month. Not too bad... I can feel your every word about wanting "his" baby to the tee. I was the same way, but I have grown to fully understand that it is either this or no baby at all, and there is no way I can live childless after falling to pieces when we found out all this! I am very excited at the thought that I get to pick out my baby daddy "all over again"! haha! Did you ever look at that site I gave you? If not, it is xytex.com and they have the international site link on there as well! At least give it a look. You'll be suprised... :hugs: and have a Happy Thanksgiving!


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## cosita

mrsd1606 said:


> Hi ladies, i hope u dont mind me joining u, iv started reading this post last nigt and will get throught it all eventually :kiss:
> 
> well yesterday we had our 2nd fs appointment, following my lap. me & dh have been ttc conceive just coming up for 12 months (not very long i know), iv always had a feeling there was somthing wrong but assumed it was my side, i have very long cycles (between 45-90 days) anyway at our appointmnt were we were expecting to be given clomid, we wer told that dh's 1st SA showed 0 count and 2nd SA showed 2 million. :cry: im absalutly devastated. can anyone shed any light on what our chances of ivf/icsi with dh's sperm would be with these figures? and also is there anything we can do to increase this? as my fs started talking about DS, and its thrown me a little as this wasnt something that had entered my head, i was maybe expecting sa to be a little low but not 0 :cry:

Hi there, sorry to see your here, but it really is a great place. The day before yesterday we got 2nd Sa back and results similar to yours (less than 2million) and we were over the moon after the past month thinking that dh had no sperm at all. We still dont know the reason for this or if more will be there next time (or less again). But its positive. Before this we were hoping for some sperm if they had to do biopsy (still not ruling it out) and that finding sperm there we could ICSI. Basically just finding out that he produces sperm at all was great and one less (big) worry. Im thinking the chances with ICSI are pretty good. How was motility etc?


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## WANBMUM

Thanks SND - did i call you silverbell? woops sorry about that,i just noticed. As you know I was talkin to you :)
I will go and check out that website now.
I know if my OH cant be operated on, we are definately going down the donor route, Im sure once we find out, there will be a grieving process (which im sure we will never forget) but then i know it will be onwards and upwards. I never thought of it as finding a new match all over again, haha. I just know my OH would make such beautiful babies :(
I will go and check that out now. 
x


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## Deb111

cosita said:


> Well, here's how it went. The SA results show less than 2million. The doc seems really optimistic about this but could not assure us the lab just isn't being specific and that maybe less than 2million means just 1 or 2. He doesn't think so but I just cannot believe it and don't want to get my hopes up. We are going to email the lab and ask them how they measure, we know they aren't going to put an exact number but maybe between 1 million and 2 million or under 1 million, you get the idea. Anyway we told him about the antidepressives dh had been taking 9 months ago and he basically said 'Say no more'. Basically he feels we really need to explore the possibility that the sperm is on the up. This may take a lot longer than the biopsy route but of course its much better long term. So he has prescribed him 'Androferti'...full of zinc and all such things and we have to go back in 2 months. The motility was 100% immobile.:nope:
> For the moment we're not going to count ourselves out of azoospermia but its looking like we may have a few spermies to play with.
> Oh by the way, he also mentioned that most of their sperm donors are students and the norm is that during exam time their sperm counts drop to 0. Stress can kill sperm!
> So girls, while this is kinda good news (for the next 2 months anyways) we still have to focus on being patient. I feel that this is what will get us through this.
> :thumbup:

Corsita - sounds like positive news potentially - will be keeping everything crossed for you both xx


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## Deb111

Snd - so sorry about the break-in - how awful for you! :hugs:

MrsD welcome - we had microTESE recently ans they only got 40 ish sperm. They used 8 to fertilise my eggs ans 3 of 8 fertilised and developed brilliantly. Ok, we didn't get the :bfp: we wanted, but that was beyond anyone's control. We had a blastocyst and a 5 day morula transferrred and have a blastocyst on ice! 2 million sounds a huge amount when you consider our situation :thumbup:

Sorry I've been MIA lately ladies. I've really not been in a good place. Things built up and built up and the final straw was getting myself geared up to start weight watchers, having dreadful trouble with the website not letting me save the lists of things I eat and then I dropped a bowl of mango salsa I'd made all over the floor last sunday night. I sat in the middle of the kitchen floor and sobbed for an hour and a half :cry:

Still not feeling great, but I missed you girls and the support on this site, so I'm going to start popping back in - makes me feel less alone :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Sorry your having a crap time Deb, sending you lots of hugs. You probably needed that cry more than ever. I find that I am ok and can get on with things for a long time, but boy when I want to cry I need to and it lasts for ages and comes out of no-where :(
This rollercoaster really is a test for all of us, I just wish we could get off it from time to time. 
What is the next step for you and your OH?


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## Deb111

Thanks Wanbmum

Our next stage is FET in January and if that fails, we've got a tiny bit of frozen sperm, but I would have to go through the whole process again and who knows if the sperm would survive the thaw?


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## WANBMUM

Well look - stay positive (as much as you can, i have to keep drilling this into my own head) - we have learned on this journey, once there is hope, there is HOPE! 

It will happen for us, how, when or where, we dont know but IT WILL HAPPEN :)


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## froliky2011

Hi Ladies. Regarding azoospermia...I know it is challenging. However, after dealing with this issue for a handful of years, and reflecting a bit, I think it's important that we try to be strong for our DH. They feel terrible and I know my DH has felt probably worse than I do because they think our sadness is their fault. Make sure to give them a lot of love and affection. They need it! Men don't always show their emotions but it is probably harder on them than us. They blame themselves, feel guilty and ashamed because of the diagnosis. Baby Dust to All of Us!!!!!!! Stay Positive... I know it's not easy, but we're strong, we can do this.


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## WANBMUM

Thanks frolicky, you are truly right! I think that's why we all come on here, to vent. My OH doesn't need constant reminding or constant conversations, that's why I love all these girlies :) who listen, give advice and most importantly know where I am coming from.


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## MissAma

*sigh* seems no one is doing great.. We had major set backs...First my boss had a -veiled-go at me about wanting another IVF baby. Then found out the SSR not till Jan 17 which made me furious -no other time slots- because l didn't want to go over Xmas without knowing if they find sperm and worst of all l had a mini-stroke and spent 2 days in hospital with the prospect of 3 months of anticiagulants and delaying treatment hanging over my head. They decided against it so we can start whenever but it's not ideal.


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## Deb111

Sorry you're having a hard time too MissAma and sorry to hear you've not been well hun :hugs:

It's frustrating having to wait til after christmas :growlmad: we're just trying to convince ourselves the time will fly by with everything that's going on and at least we wont be worried about timings / testing etc until the new year

And as for your boss ... what the hell's it got to do with them?!?!?! :growlmad: xx


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## kosenrufu

MissAma said:


> *sigh* seems no one is doing great.. We had major set backs...First my boss had a -veiled-go at me about wanting another IVF baby. Then found out the SSR not till Jan 17 which made me furious -no other time slots- because l didn't want to go over Xmas without knowing if they find sperm and worst of all l had a mini-stroke and spent 2 days in hospital with the prospect of 3 months of anticiagulants and delaying treatment hanging over my head. They decided against it so we can start whenever but it's not ideal.

Dara - pls tell me the story..my DH has azoospermia too & the doc wasnt sure of the reason - he sd it cud be environmental..huh:growlmad: neways he has put my dh on weekly & alternate injections & sd this will boost hormones but can take sme time..he wasnt sure how much...i m feeling very lost :cry:


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> An update on ME: we have been told there is only a 10% chance that my OH can be fixed, they think there is too much damage. (my OH has scar tissue in both testes, 10% chance it can be fixed) He has another app in dec for a scan and they will give us their decision on whether it is worthwhile to operate. If not, our next option is donor :( dont get me wrong, if we have to use donor we will, but it will kill me and OH if we cant have 'his' baby :( it is so unfair, but we are not willing to give up, we will do whatever is necessary.

I can totally relate to this. We've been given a 5% chance of finding any sperm when DH has his op in January. We've been grieving since we found out and to be honest we've both already accepted that it's highly likely he'll never have his own biological children. There isn't a word strong enough to describe the devastation. We'll be going for donor sperm as well. I have to keep reminding myself that that donor child will exist because of the massive amounts of love, respect and strength DH and I have for one another and that's more than what some biological parents have. Sending you lots of :hugs:



mrsd1606 said:


> as my fs started talking about DS, and its thrown me a little as this wasnt something that had entered my head, i was maybe expecting sa to be a little low but not 0 :cry:
> 
> im so scared bacause i know the rollercoaster weve got ahead of us, i have to go to work now and just dont know how im going to function as normal all day :cry:
> 
> thanks everyone in advance x

Are you able to take some time off? I had to have a day off work the day after I found out, as I was struggling too much to cope. It's an incredibly distressing thing to go through - try and be kind to yourself.

The fact that there were some sperm - even immotile - is a really good thing in my opinion. At least you know he is making them and it's true that they say it only takes 1!



snd80 said:


> So, alot has been going on in my world these past few weeks. Our house got broken into last Tues and my safe with every dime I had saved up for my appt in Jackson yesterday was stolen, not to mention our PS3 and our guns... plus they ransacked our poor house! You talk about one pissed lady! Especially over my "baby" money!!!!! That was the most devistating thing!!! *sigh* But thanks to my wonderful aunt, I was still able to make it to my appt yesterday! Yay!

So sorry about the house break :cry: That's horrible that your money has been stolen (amongst other things). How despicable are these people that do these sorts of things. They make me so mad :growlmad:

I'm glad you still got to your appointment and that you've been given so much useful information. Lots to be thinking about and getting on with now. Exciting for you!



MissAma said:


> *sigh* seems no one is doing great.. We had major set backs...First my boss had a -veiled-go at me about wanting another IVF baby. Then found out the SSR not till Jan 17 which made me furious -no other time slots- because l didn't want to go over Xmas without knowing if they find sperm and worst of all l had a mini-stroke and spent 2 days in hospital with the prospect of 3 months of anticiagulants and delaying treatment hanging over my head. They decided against it so we can start whenever but it's not ideal.

I'm so sorry to hear about the mini-stroke, MissAma :hugs: I'm also sorry to hear about the SSR delay, but 17 January will honestly be here before you know it. Christmas and New Year always seems to fly by with so many social events and excitement.

As for your boss - I agree with Deb: what on EARTH has it got to do with them and why should you stop at one if the potential is there for you to have another? Do IVF couples not get to choose how many children they'd like, like fertile couples get?! Madness.


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## Sar187

MissAma-So sorry to hear about the health issues. I really hope you are feeling better! I cannot believe your boss. As the other ladies said the 17th of January will be here before you know it, the delay sucks but I am sure there is a reason for it!

AFM-I am on day 2 of stims and already have the migraine and stiff/sore neck from the gonal-f. I was hoping to skip that this time but oh well. I go in on friday for my first bloodwork and u/s to check my progress. Last cycle I had about 15 measurable follies at that time so hoping for good progress again! I had about 17 antral follies at my baseline appt. Have still been doing acupuncture and have been doing a fertility meditation that I am loving so far!

Sorry if I missed anyone. I hope EOE is doing well!


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## Deb111

kosenrufu said:


> MissAma said:
> 
> 
> *sigh* seems no one is doing great.. We had major set backs...First my boss had a -veiled-go at me about wanting another IVF baby. Then found out the SSR not till Jan 17 which made me furious -no other time slots- because l didn't want to go over Xmas without knowing if they find sperm and worst of all l had a mini-stroke and spent 2 days in hospital with the prospect of 3 months of anticiagulants and delaying treatment hanging over my head. They decided against it so we can start whenever but it's not ideal.
> 
> Dara - pls tell me the story..my DH has azoospermia too & the doc wasnt sure of the reason - he sd it cud be environmental..huh:growlmad: neways he has put my dh on weekly & alternate injections & sd this will boost hormones but can take sme time..he wasnt sure how much...i m feeling very lost :cry:Click to expand...

Hi Kosenrufu and welcome :hugs:

Can I ask what injections your husband is on? Make sure he's NOT on testosterone injections as giving him artificial testosterone will stop his body producing any of it's own testosterone and therefore sperm


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## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> MissAma-So sorry to hear about the health issues. I really hope you are feeling better! I cannot believe your boss. As the other ladies said the 17th of January will be here before you know it, the delay sucks but I am sure there is a reason for it!
> 
> AFM-I am on day 2 of stims and already have the migraine and stiff/sore neck from the gonal-f. I was hoping to skip that this time but oh well. I go in on friday for my first bloodwork and u/s to check my progress. Last cycle I had about 15 measurable follies at that time so hoping for good progress again! I had about 17 antral follies at my baseline appt. Have still been doing acupuncture and have been doing a fertility meditation that I am loving so far!
> 
> Sorry if I missed anyone. I hope EOE is doing well!

Hi Sar 

I don't know if gonal f works in the same way, but I was told synarel gives you a stinking, constant headache and I had none whatsover. All I can put it down to is that I drink like a fish!!! So make sure you drink loads! xx


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## mrsd1606

thanks for the welcome, the support for each other on here is amazing :hugs:

Iv not been on for a few days as i couldnt face it :cry: after the diagnosis on mon i feel like iv been going through a period of grieving, for the baby we will never conceive without medical intervention, dont get me wrong iv been through every low emotion possibly this week but hopefully i feel like im coming out the other side right now.

wer in the very lucky position that my mum and dad (who thankfully hav been fantastic and so supportive, unlike his parents :growlmad:) hav offered to pay for a private consultation, rather than waiting 6 months for nhs one, i dont think we could cope waiting that long. especially dh who is very good at burying his head in the sand until he has facts in front of him. hes not very good at talking about things and bottles things up claiming he's fine, when i know he cant be! has anyone else had this with their dh's?? i worry about how hes dealing with it?

anyway enough about me, sending hope and hugs everyones way :hugs::hugs: x


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## cosita

Deb111 said:


> Sorry I've been MIA lately ladies. I've really not been in a good place. Things built up and built up and the final straw was getting myself geared up to start weight watchers, having dreadful trouble with the website not letting me save the lists of things I eat and then I dropped a bowl of mango salsa I'd made all over the floor last sunday night. I sat in the middle of the kitchen floor and sobbed for an hour and a half :cry:

Deb, I'm sorry to hear about WW, I don't know if this is any help to do but weightlossresources.co.uk has been a godsend to me. I have lost almost 4 stone because of it, although its been over two years, it has taught me to eat well and the importance of exercise. There is a great support group there and a fantastic forum to make you feel like you've got company all the way thru. They give you a 24 hour free trial to see if you like it. It works out a lot cheaper that WW though and its a lot easier (for me anyway cos living in Spain I find it hard to count points cos a lot of the foods are beyond that. 
Let me know if you want anymore info:thumbup:


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## Step Mummy

I had my tube check and all is fine, however unfrotuantely I had a bad reaction to the examination and had to have the heart rate monitor and blood pressure monitor put on and was not allowed to leave for an hour!! typical it has to happen to me! Anyway good news is we are all ready to chose a new donor.

We spoke to another person at the hospital and they said that sometimes there can be incompatibility issues, so chosing a new donor would be a good idea. She said she has seen this before, 3 goes and failed - new donor - lucky first time with new donor! So fingers crossed now we can find someone we like ready to start in my January cycle. Just got to wait it out now for 6 weeks until we go again!!

Talking about side effects of the drugs, when i do the Trigger Injection I get a really bunged up nose, I mean properly solid bunged up, swollen all around my sinuses and cannot breath at all - for about 3 days. Really bazzar - this is just like rhinitus of pregnancy which is a side effect of pregnancy - - you get it with the drugs because of the pregnancy hormone that they are putting in - god I hope I don't end up having this for the whole pregnancy I will die - it is so painful and uncomfortable and you just can't sleep!!!

For those who asked; I am pretty sure she said my AMH is 1.2 which is quite low, but she said I should be ok as long as we do IUI and don't have to go for IVF, which hopefully we won't have to.

Anyway I am back to smiling again, and just playing the waiting game - but after 2 and half years I am good a this now!!!

Good luck all & speak soon xxx


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## Step Mummy

Wannabmum & Silverbell: QUOTE "We've been given a 5% chance of finding any sperm when DH has his op in January. We've been grieving since we found out and to be honest we've both already accepted that it's highly likely he'll never have his own biological children. There isn't a word strong enough to describe the devastation. We'll be going for donor sperm as well. I have to keep reminding myself that that donor child will exist because of the massive amounts of love, respect and strength DH and I have for one another and that's more than what some biological parents have." END QUOTE

I know it is really tough, it actually took me 10 months to come to terms with this before we could actually go ahead and start looking at donors. My DH dealt with it better than me and wanted to just get on with it, but I couldn't. I think he had a little comfort from already having a son 20 years ago, so at least he has experienced having his own child, but he still found it all very tought - and still does. (although I don't think this helped me, as his son is identicle to DH). We were told environmental issues too, which gives you no help whatsoever, especially when he already has a child.

It is devastating, and I don't think anyone actually knows how this feels unless they go through it. You need to take time to grieve and give yourselves time to deal with it, before rushing into the next steps. We filled our diary with holidays and good things for a few months to help cheer ourselves up after 2 years of misery - before we started the next period of misery! I was very worried how we would react when we got pg finally and how we would feel when it arrived, I was concerned we might somehow reject the baby - strange thoughts considering how much we wanted one - but I so wanted to look at my baby and see my DH in them. Good luck - take all the time you need. xxx


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## Sar187

Deb-I kind of expected the headache this time as I had it last time as well. I have been doing fertility meditation which also seems to be keeping the headache manageable.

Angela- glad to hear your tubes are all clear and there is no issue there. I really hope it was just a compatibility issue and your next cycle with a new donor is a BFP! All the meds do crazy things to us!

MrsD-Our DH's do go through a grieving process as well and we can't expect them to deal with it the same way we do. Just give him some time and he will open up when he is ready. And don't be surprised if he starts thinking he is less of a man or isn't good enough for you or tells you to just find someone else who can give you a baby. It will pass as he starts to come to terms with it. Make sure you both take the time you need to accept the diagnosis. This is a great group of ladies here and will always support you whether you just to vent or need support!

AFM-feeling better today hoping the headache doesn't come back too bad. Looking forward to getting a look at how my follies are doing on Friday!


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## Deb111

Thanks Corsita - WW is sorted now - no help to them or their useless customer services / technical issues team, but I will bear what you've said in mind

Angela - great news :thumbup:

Sar - good luck for friday xx


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## kosenrufu

Hi Deb...

The Doc is giving FSH hormones to my husband..said it should help secrete the right hormones....do u know anything abt them??


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## CanadianMaple

DH was just diagnosed with this yesterday. I haven't stopped crying. I am heading out and will be back to keep reading though this thread. I'm so glad I am not alone in this.


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## Deb111

kosenrufu said:


> Hi Deb...
> 
> The Doc is giving FSH hormones to my husband..said it should help secrete the right hormones....do u know anything abt them??

Not too much - my hubby was on meds to drive his FSH and therefore his testosterone, but from what I've read, FSH will drive the leydig cells and testosterone so fingers crossed for you xx


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> DH was just diagnosed with this yesterday. I haven't stopped crying. I am heading out and will be back to keep reading though this thread. I'm so glad I am not alone in this.

So sorry you're having to deal with this diagnosis :hugs: but you have found a wonderfully supportive group - I don't think any of us have the same story as to our dh's azoospermia, so you will find lots of different info.

Take some time to grieve and don't beat yourself up over how you're feeling. This is a loss - it's not necessarily the end of you and your dh having a baby together and there are lots of things to explore, but knowing it will not happen how you always dreamed it would, is a loss and you will go through many emotions over the next few days and weeks.

Just ask if there's anything you want to know and feel free to rant away xx


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## Bookworm

Hi all - been :hi: been so long since I've been on the thread that I feel like a bit of a newbie here!
Hello to those who have joined recently; in one sense I hate seeing new people here, as I wouldn't wish this on any one - but on the other hand if you have to go through it then you are in the best place possible :hugs: I owe a lot to the ladies on this thread, and just reading through the posts really helped me at the start.

Lots has been happening here! I don't really know where to start... I've just spent the last couple of hours catching up (back to the beginning of Oct). Robberies and cycles and donors and clinic troubles... I'm sorry I wasn't here at the time, but though I've not been about I've been thinking of you all and sending out positive vibes. 

I had a bit of a hard time in October; my SIL gave birth to a little boy - for a lot of reasons this was hard for me, as I know you can all imagine. This one has been the hardest for me - they broke the news at a big family gathering during the summer, just after our 0 SA. He is DH's younger brother, married under a year at the time and this leaves us as the 'childless couple', all of which was explored in detail by the family for humourous effect on the day. It was pretty awful, and there was no escape. Timing wise this means that they got pregnant in the only month I ever had a scare, I really thought I was pg in Feb '11.... Its not really their fault, none of them knew we were TTC or having problems, but something broke in me that day - I felt as if something had been taken away from me. So the birth of this child was very complicated for me - all very selfish and self-indulgent :blush: but there it is - & to top it off they stole my name - which sounds really stupid, but the night we came home from the BBQ when they announced their BFP, I said to DH when we got home " they're going to have a boy and they're going to call him Josh" - and guess what? 
Then there is the whole CF thing too - just weeks before the birth we got the results back showing that DH is a CF carrier ( the cause of his azoospermia) meaning his DB could be too, and potentially if his wife is too they could have had a very sick child. But of course we couldn't tell a mother, weeks before the birth of her child that it might have CF... So we had to guiltily sit on the news and hope to God that the child was healthy (and thankfully he is thriving).

Plus we were waiting to start our first cycle at the time. We started down reg on 8th Nov, I'm taking my trigger shot on Sunday & ER is scheduled for Tuesday. All moving for us now - I'm cautiously optimistic. I realise that the percentages are hard to beat, but I also know that I'm healthy, everything is going well so far, and even at the worst this is just the first cycle - in a way I thinking of it as something that we need to do to get to a BFP on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, but that if it worked 1st time we'd be over the moon - I call it realistic optimism / maybe that should be optimistic realism...

Lastly for us, something that has really helped me turn a corner is that DH has started to show some softness - he has been so strong for me through this all that sometimes it came across as though he was a bit detached, and maybe not that bothered. But recently he's admitted to finding it hard, made a few comments about finding different situations tough, and talking about imagining a LO climbing into bed with us in the mornings and all cuddling up together on the sofa. For some reason that has really helped me, i really needed to know that he was find this tough ( sounds awful when i say that). I think maybe I've been a bit selfish, indulging my own emotions too much and forcing him to be strong for me; maybe I held him back from dealing with it all...

Well - sorry for the waffle - should probably be a journal entry rather than a post here:blush: bet your all glad I don't post more often!! Lots of :hugs:


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## Deb111

Sorry you've had a tough time dealing with things lately hun. I think we beat ourselves up over how we deal with friends having babies / getting pregnant, but I think it's important to remember that we are not wishing they WEREN'T pregnant or HADN'T had a baby, we just wish it was us ASWELL and there's no need to feel bad about that. If it can come so easily to some people, why should others have to go through all this :shrug::nope:


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## wibble wobble

I agree with you Deb... I wouldn't wish azoospermia on anyone,being unable to conceive a baby naturally is the worst thing that can happen to anyone,it's so unfair to deny people the ability to reproduce. Seeing people with babies or pregnant only makes the hurt, hurt harder and the journey more daunting. People are always going to be having babies too easily compared to any of us,we wouldn't be human if we didn't envy them if only for a minute.


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## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> DH was just diagnosed with this yesterday. I haven't stopped crying. I am heading out and will be back to keep reading though this thread. I'm so glad I am not alone in this.

I am so sorry, CM :hugs:

I remember this feeling so clearly and it's the most vile, horrible time and was the darkest, most shattering time in my life. You're not alone in your feelings and we are all here for you whenever you need us or if you have any questions or if you just want to rant. Take your time coming to terms with it and what it brings with it and be kind to each other.

Thinking of you :hugs:

---

Bookworm, glad to hear things are moving forwards for you! :dance:


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## CanadianMaple

Thank you for the welcomes. It isn't a club I ever expected to ever have to join. They are doing a repeat SA on DH this Wednesday. 

He now remembers having inguinal hernia surgery when he was 8. He was also in a car accident when he was hit by a drunk driver in '98. He was in a coma with septicemia, a perforated bowel and a broken back. He had an ostomy for 6 months. We wonder if either one of those are to blame.

He's in denial. He keeps thinking it's a mistake and I am ahead of myself asking for a referral to the RE clinic in the city nearby. I have no idea what will happen. I don't know if we can afford to do ART. :( 

I hate all of the unknowns. DH is seeing a urologist soon, we hope. I also want us to get into the RE, I think it's a 3 month wait. 

It makes me feel weak in the knees when I look at this. Going from using OPKs, waiting for a BFP, obsessing to a total stop. We don't even have a faction of a percentage of a chance to conceive. It's even worse than the definition of IF when you google it.

I'm a mess. We got the results and didn't speak to a doctor. I don't recommend that. No one talked to us and explained anything. I know what I know now because of Dr. Google.


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## Sar187

CanadianMaple-So sorry you find yourself here. As the other ladies have said you will need time to grieve. Some days will be harder than others. This is a wonderful group and here to help answer your questions and give you support. My DH had inuinal hernia surgery twice. The left side at 5 months old and the right side at 4 years old. When he had his sperm retrieval done, there was a lots of scarring from the surgeries, both around his vas deferens and around his epididymis. They were able to retrieve plenty of sperm from his testes though. I know it is a horrible and hard diagnosis but don't give up hope.

Bookworm-Sorry you have been having a hard time. Seeing other people, especially people close to us have babies is hard. Especially when it feels like it happens so easy for them. We are happy for them but we are so sad for ourselves that it is hard to show our happiness for them. I am glad that your DH has been showing a bit of softness. I think sometimes they try to be so strong for us that we don't even realize how hard this all is on them. I know during this 2nd IVF/ICSI cycle I have had a few moments where I was just really worried/scared about things not turning out right and when DH finally admitted that he has all the same worries, and checks my meds every morning to make sure I didn't forget anything it made me feel a lot better. Don't feel like you are being selfish all your reactions are perfectly normal.

AFM-I have my last monitoring u/s tomorrow morning and should be triggering tomorrow night for a Friday EC. As of Yesterday I had somewhere around 17 follies between 11 and 23mm. Can't button the top button on my pants because I am so bloated already this cycle lol. I hope EOE is doing well!


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## Bookworm

CanadianMaple, I think all the ladies here reading your post will be reliving those early days with you. DH & I went through the same process of hoping for a better result on the 2nd SA but at the same time working through what we thought might be causing the azoospermia... it's perfectly natural. There are just so many possibilities for you right now, I hope you can find a way of coping with the uncertainty... It's something that I think we all find tough. 
And I know what you mean about the OPKs... I just threw out an unopened packet last week:blush: been in my drawer for MONTHS; I'd bought them just before we got the SA results & couldn't quite bring myself to deal with them before now.
But try not to think of this as a total stop, it's horrible, scary, stressful, yes - but as my DH kept reminding me in our early days: you're not out until you're out. 

Sar - so far so good on your cycle! :happydance:

AFM - DH & I are at home recovering from our EC/SSR: I had 17 follies of which they picked out 11 at the right size to give eggs & of those 9eggs were mature.
DH had a great result too - since beginning our cycle we were placed with a different consultant (ie not the guy that did the test biopsy) This new guy does the procedure by first attempting to aspirated the sperm off through the epididymis (last guy went straight to cut). So where our test showed swimmers, the guys they got were immature & not great quality; today they got a great batch with enough to inject all 9 eggs plus 3.5 straws frozen - & they seem hopeful of the quality for future thaw (we did have a straw from the test biopsy but lost it this morning when they tried to thaw).

We're still anxious about the process (first-timers!) but we're happy with how things have gone so far (delighted with the SSR) We'll know tomorrow morning how our 9 are doing & I think we schedule ET then....


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## Deb111

Great news so far bookworm. Hope you're both doing ok :hugs: Will be praying for good news for you tomorrow xx


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## Sar187

Bookworm-good news so far. Hoping you get good fertilization and a good # of those 9 fertilize normally!


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## MJ73

Hi Girls,
So much to catch up on, sorry I haven't been on for a while, I have been keeping up to date reading, just have been soooo tired & busy. So many personals to catch up on, so a long post!

*Silverbell* & *Cosita* Thanks for the welcome, nice to 'meet' you. Silverbell, keeping everything crossed for January; Cosita, sounds like a good result, fingers crossed for you.

*Deb*, how are you hun? It sounds like you have been having a tough time. I think the constant waiting that comes with IVf is the hardest part. Especially for those of us who's partners have azoos as we know there is NO chnace of that miracle non-ivf bub that many others doing ivf at least can hope for. Will be hanging out for you to do your natural FET in January & keeping everything crossed. That bloody frozen sperm issue was so tough for us, my poor DH actually went into shock & started shaking & passed out when he realised that he had to have his procedure again. He still suffers pain from his last procedure in March, poor love.At least with the FET you don't have to worry about sperm thawing issues.

*SND*, so, so sorry about the robbery, that's just horrible. It sounds like things are moving along for you, it will be great to follow your journey.

*Wanbmum*, I love your positive attitude, sometimes hope is all we have to hang on to.

Welcome *MRSD*, as long as they can find some sperm there is hope, look at Deb & I, in our situations they're dealing with less than 50 sperm (not 50000; 50!) and we managed to get some fertilisation, so your situation sounds hopeful to me.

*MissAma*; a stroke! That sounds terrible you poor thing! And then your boss having a go at you; your boss should keep their nose in their own business. Will be keeing evrything crossed for you for January too; sounds like January is a big month!

*Sar187*, keeping everything cossed for you, those stim drugs can make you feel so unwell. Rest up & be kind to yourself.

Welcome *CM*, sorry you're having such a tough time, this is truly a devestating time. Take one second, minute, hour, day at a time & hang in there, this is a great, supportive group :hugs:

*Bookworm*, it sounds like it's all happening for you, cycle wise! We also have CF issue, my DH has a CF gene mutation & I am a full carrier, so there is a slim chnace that our child (if we get that lucky) could have an A-Typical form of CF, we, however cannot afford PGD, so are just hoping for the best. I love your "realistic optimism /optimistic realism...", that's the stage we're at at the moment. Sounds like a goof haul, egg wise. Each step that you get through is an achievement, so hang in there!:friends:

*Step Mummy*, how you travelling hun? I agree, if we didn't have patience at the beginning of thus then we sure do by the end. Have you chosen a new donor yet or did I miss that?

AFM, well we made it through the 1st hurdle of ovulation (yay) and then had our lovely thawed hatching blastocyst transfered on tues 29/11. We were soo nervous about this after our experience with the sperm thaw, but it all went well. Thank GOD! Our clinic gives defrosted embryos a % score and ours scored 100% _and_ was re-expanding too. Our beautiful FS (who we love) said "look at it, it's gorgeous; looks just like a fresh one". So currently we are still just waiting. we have the BT on friday. Can I just say that I hate the 2 week wait (although for us it's 10 days). This has to be one of the toughest things I've done in my life. I keep thinking I am getting my period (it's due today). My DH gave me a good talking to this morn, telling me how much he loves & that nothing can change that & that we've done all that we can & the rest is in God's hands... So 2 more sleeps ladies. 
You're all such a great source of comfort & kindness.
:dust: to us all,

Mel xx


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## wibble wobble

Hi MJ hope you get news on friday xx


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## kosenrufu

Thank you..keeping my fingers crossed! I have suddenly started praying harder than i ever have in my life  and keep googling for miracle stories  

i am living on the hope that we will have our miracle soon! 

Thanks for being there..means a lot lot...you are in my prayers too.


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## silverbell

Lots going on for Sar, MJ Bookworm this Friday :happydance: Thinking of you all. :dust:


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## Sar187

MJ hoping Friday is a good day for both of us!


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## Pink Lolly

Sar187 said:


> MJ hoping Friday is a good day for both of us!

Sar and MJ, we have our first IUI with donor sperm on Friday - fingers crossed its a lucky day!!! Sending you lots of :dust: :dust:


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## snd80

Pink Lolly, I am so excited for you! I can't wait til the time comes when we have our first IUI w/ donor done... hopefully May or June of next year! How is your hubby coping with this step? Mine seems ok with it now, but who knows when the time finally comes around? Loads of Good Luck!

Hope everyone else is doing well! And good luck to Sar and MJ for Friday too! So good to see so many girls moving along on here! :hugs: to each of you!


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## Pink Lolly

Thanks snd :hugs:

My hubby seems ok with it all, we had always said that we would use a donor if the TESE was unsuccessful so have been geared up for it since we got the first SA results a year ago - so I guess in hindsight although I've hated waiting the time has helped us come to terms with things.

I think my dh is just grateful that gather are donors out there, as this is our only chance for a family. He did get a bit emotional today saying thank you to me for sticking with him and using a donor as I'm giving him the amazing gift of a child...and he said his parents feel the same about me giving them a grandchild too (well hopefully anyway). He does sometimes say things like 'it won't really be mine' and I get a bit worried, but hoping that will pass when it actually happens!

Good luck to you too - what stage are you at? Xx


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## tigerlily1975

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to pop along to wish GOOD LUCK to MJ73, BookWorm and Sar187, sending you all big, bouncy, positive thoughts.

I hope everyone's well, lots going on here. Sorry this is short and sweet, just got back from much-needed holiday (we need these treats to keep us going, don't we?) and I'm severely jet-lagged. We arrived home to an appointment letter for DH's TESE. They've set it for beginning of Feb, but we'll have to post-pone as we're moving then. It's all beginning to feel very real now, I'm so petrified at the thought that they won't find any. Ah, I need to get some sleep and try and find some PMA!

As always I send you all big :hugs:

C xx


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## Bookworm

Thanks for the good wishes - & it is looking like a Friday ET for us: so I'll be joining Sar, MJ & Pink Lolly for 'lucky Friday'

Hi MJ - when did you learn about being CF carrier? Did you always know?
We have just found out through this process; there is a history of unexplained Infertility in DH's family & just over 10years ago his DB was diagnosed with azoospermia & then tested & cleared for CF - turns out that at that time they couldn't identify the particular mutation they both carry. My BIL has just been retested & found to be positive. We're in the lucky position that I'm not a carrier (of anything they can currently detect that is).

We heard from clinic today that 5 of our 9 eggs have fertilised overnight:happydance: tomorrow we'll hear how they're developing & ET will be confirmed - fx that they make it through the night...

Just a note on 'PMA': when talking to the embryologist today I was trying to get an idea of timing for the ET because I'm doing acupuncture & want to go before the procedure. I was a bit embarrassed to tell him, thinking that this medical man would scoff - but actually he was really supportive! He didn't go so far as to say it works, but in the conversation he commented on how important it is for us ladies to be as relaxed as possible dohh:) & that PMA is important - he talked about 'negative feedback' from the brain if a patient is pessimistic of their chances... 
Now obviously simply being positive & optimistic will not get you pg (unfortunately we all know its a lot more complicated than that) but I did think it was interesting that that the specialists put SO much importance on it..... Mind you; easier said than done:haha: but if it could help I'll definitely be packing up my anxieties, getting my PMA on & trading in my 'realism' for out-&-out optimism:thumbup:


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## Pink Lolly

Good luck bookworm! Lucky Friday....I like it!! 

That's a good point about PMA....I will definitely be trying! :thumbup:


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## snd80

Pink Lolly said:


> Good luck to you too - what stage are you at? Xx

Well, not a stage really. I have been given the green light to proceed at any time I get ready by the specialist. But we are going to wait until May or June so I can loose a bit more weight, and build our funds back up after getting robbed last month. I still have to have a HSG done (hopefully either this month or next), and then when the time comes take the first month w/ clomid and have my progesterone checked, and then proceed w/ the IUI the next. Everyone (our family) is chomping at the bit for us to go ahead and do it, but I would rather wait until I loose more weight first. I just don't wanna risk anything with us only having "one shot", ya know? 

My hubby seems ok with everything for now, I am just scared that if it takes and I do get pg., that he will flake out on me and I will be stuck by myself alone with a baby by a man I don't even know! I guess I am just one of those that thinks waayyy too ahead and jumps to conclusions. LOL! Only a select few in our circle know we are going for donor (my mom, my sister and my aunt). Everyone else in the family thinks we are having IUI done with hubby's sperm. And that is the way he wants it. I guess he thinks it reflects on his "manhood" or something. IDK!

Glad you hubby is being a great sport about it! And really hope it takes the first time!!! Fingers crossed for you!!!


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## Pink Lolly

We have only told our parents about the donor too - everyone else thinks we're using hubbies sperm. Again it was his choice like yours and I think if it makes it easier for them then it's best to go with it! Afterall it must be strange for them really x


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## MJ73

Hi all,

Thanks *Silverbell, SND, Wibble & Tigerlilly *we need all the fairy dust, finger crossing & praying that we can get:thumbup:

Thanks *Sar*; fingers crossed for both of us hun :dust:

*Pink Lolly*, how exciting :dust: to you too hun, friday is a busy.

*Tigerlilly*, good luck for the TESE for FEB, fingers crossed.

Hi *Bookworm*, We found out just before our 1st cycle that I am a full carrier after testing for CF revealed that DH has a CF gene mutation, so they tested me. We've been led to believe that the CFGM could be the cause of DH's azoos. We spent many hours of counselling with the Genetisist at our ivf & in the end were told that we have very little chance of having a child with full CF, a slim chance of having a child with 'atypicle CF' (a lesser form of CF, not life threatening) & a 25% chance that if it is a boy he will inherit the azoos part of DH's CFGM, which is a bit of added stress that no-one needs when doing IVF. I also do acupuncture, I find it so good for stress relief during the cycle. It is, I understand the only natural therapy with any proof of increasing implantation rates during IVF. My specialist even suggested acu to us.

*AFM*, well, one more sleep till we find out if this cycle has been a success. I seem to have hours of being fine & feeling quite positive, interspersed with these moments of sheer, blinding stand-still panic where I'm sure that it hasn't worked. My lovely DH just keeps telling me 'not to borrow trouble' & just wait till tomorrow. Sweetheart that he is.

So, breath in... Breath out...

I will update you all tomorrow afternoon Sydney time to let you know the result. Last time we started off with a low bhcg that caught up & then ended in a nasty miscarriage at 6 weeks. Last time I felt so alone, this time I have all you beautiful girls who are going through the same thing. Thankyou for all the care & support.

Waiting, hoping, wishing, praying.

MJ :dust:


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## CanadianMaple

You girls have no idea how great this thread is for me. I haven't been posting a lot because I am still processing everything. It's been a full week since we got his results back. He did his repeat SA yesterday but we know the odds of it being different it pretty much nil. Our RE will eventually do a detailed SA.

I am not quite ready to jump in with personals, but I want to thank you all for posting in here and keeping me hopeful. Those of you doing IUIs and other big things this week; lots of baby dust!! 

I hope that I can eventually be active here. I just hate being me,me,me in my posts while I process it all. The tears have stopped for now, day 3 without crying, so let's hope that means that I have made progress instead of going into denial.

Becky


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## MrsCompass

Hi Becky!! I'm sorry to hear the sad news. Keeping u in my prayers.


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## Sar187

Pink lolly-Congrats on doing your IUI on Friday! Praying it goes well! And I'm sure once your DH holds that baby, he won't have a 2nd thought about it not being his. 

Tiger-Glad things are moving for you!

Bookworm-Yay for ET on Friday! Friday is a big day around here! Hoping you have some good quality embryos to transfer. You have a very good point about PMA. I told my RE about doing acupuncture and he was very supportive saying that stress can be a big contributor to failure. I have also been doing fertility meditation this cycle and while I don't know if that or the acupuncture are what have helped I have been both a lot more positive this cycle, and all my follies are more mature and hopefully produce better quality eggs. My Reiki practitioner also told me that thinking positive draws positive things to you, so therefore if you think positive your life will be more positive!

Becky-take your time, and just remember we are all here for support.

AFM-Triggered last night. EC is tomorrow morning I have the same # of follies as last cycle however they are all more mature than last cycle which is good! Hopefully we get plenty of eggs and have a whole lot better fertilization than last time. I have a good feeling about this cycle though.


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## Pink Lolly

Good luck sar - will be thinking of you tomorrow morning! xx


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## MJ73

Hi Girls,
Well, we are just heartbroken, its a negative result for us today. I really had hopes for ths cycle, I think because I did actually get pregnant last time (even though we miscarried), I thought I might get lucky this time. Words can't express how devastated I'm feeling. Life just seems so cruel today. I sometimes wonder how we go on each day & just keep on going...
MJ :xmas18:


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## Pink Lolly

Really sorry to read this MJ :hugs:


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## Deb111

So, so sorry MJ. I wish I knew what to say but there really is nothing that will help so I'm sending you lots of :hugs:

Hope everyone else is doing ok today - need to read back through when I get home to check up on everyone who has had big things going on today xx


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## Bookworm

So sorry MJ :hugs: there are no words... We'll be thinking of you both. 

CanadianMaple - This is going to be a tough time for you, that's totally normal. I think it would be worse if you weren't reacting to this news. Take all the time you need to be 'me,me,me', we've all been there:hugs:

AFM: ET went well today; we had 1 grade 2 & 1 grade 2/3 returned... So now I'm at home trying to relax.... I'm all stocked up on 'implantation food' (walnuts, pineapple core & pomegranate juice) & I plan to take it really easy over the weekend.... And so now we wait:wacko:

Big hugs to everyone with appointments today - thinking of you guys & wishing you lots of luck:thumbup:


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Everyone :wave:

Bookworm - glad it went well today! Relaxing definitely sounds like a good idea :thumbup:

AFM we had out first IUI today and are now officially in our first 2 week wait! 

It went well - she told me them post wash donor sperm count and it was 12 million and she said 75% of them were moving. I'm guessing that's OK as they told us that all donors have fertility checks, although as we have no sperm it's not something I'm really familiar with!

So it's just fingers crossed for us now! I start the progesterone pesseries tonight which I am dreading Be glad to get the first one out of the way! 

Hope everyone else is ok? Sar how did you get on? x


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## Bookworm

The pessaries aren't that bad - i've been on then for a couple of days & personally I find them even easier than tampons. Good luck - fx for you:flower:


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## wibble wobble

Bookworm and pinklolly I hope your 2ww are kind to you :hugs:

MJ so sorry to read you got a bfn :hugs::hugs::hugs:

Canadian Maple you need to give yourself plenty of time for things to sink in properly. It's a lot to digest :hugs: 
don't worry about not doing personals, you need to sort your well being first :hugs:

Deb how are you?

Sar how did ec go? 

afm I'm in the middle of getting my hormone profiles done, I've got my counselling arranged for a week monday and a follow up with our consultant on Jan 24th.... things are ticking along for me quite nicely, if only I knew what the next step was :wacko: I just can't help myself, I'm always thinking beyond what is happening.... and wishing my life away until that next appointment, only 10 days to wish away until counselling :happydance:


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## Sar187

MJ-so sorry to hear this. ((Hugs))

Pink-sounds like everything went really well. I hope the 2ww isn't too hard on you!

Wibble-I'm sure 10 days will go by faster than you think. It is hard not to be consumed by all of this. 

AFM-EC went well. We got 13 eggs. I was hoping for a few more because of our bad fertilization last time(4 out of 13), but am happy with 13. Hoping for good fertilization! My hope is for 6 fertilized!


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## clayzor

Flake-y said:


> Hello Deb, it's me, sorry your first thread post isn't going to be a success story!! So far, anyway.
> 
> You know it all anyway, but I'll tell my story...
> 
> I'm Jo, 31, hubby has just turned 41. We've been together for 5 years, married for 18 months. Azoospermia was diagnosed in March after properly trying for nearly a year, and NTNP for probably about 2 years or more. Like Deb, I jus knew something was wrong, although I was convinced it was me!
> 
> Anyway, we've been attending the GCRM in Glasgow for our treatment, it's unfortunately a private clinic, the NHS waiting times here are over 2 years! Ridiculous.
> 
> SSR was on 13th July, and very sadly, no sperm was found. So my poor habby has been hobbling around with swollen, bruised & stirched balls since then. And all for nothing.
> 
> We've decided to go ahead with treatment using donor sperm, we're going back to the clinic on 4th August to find out whether we'll still need the IVF or whatever.
> 
> All in all, we've had a really shitty year, but are over the latest shock & hoping nothing else bad will happen! Please?


This condition, like others, is treatable. Have him take American Ginseng, Vitamin B6, Zinc. Arginine. L-Dopa, Safed Musli.


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## Deb111

Bookworm said:


> So sorry MJ :hugs: there are no words... We'll be thinking of you both.
> 
> CanadianMaple - This is going to be a tough time for you, that's totally normal. I think it would be worse if you weren't reacting to this news. Take all the time you need to be 'me,me,me', we've all been there:hugs:
> 
> AFM: ET went well today; we had 1 grade 2 & 1 grade 2/3 returned... So now I'm at home trying to relax.... I'm all stocked up on 'implantation food' (walnuts, pineapple core & pomegranate juice) & I plan to take it really easy over the weekend.... And so now we wait:wacko:
> 
> Big hugs to everyone with appointments today - thinking of you guys & wishing you lots of luck:thumbup:

The things we do ... pomegranate juice made me heave!!! :sick:

Hope you're managing to relax :hugs: xx


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## Deb111

wibble wobble said:


> Deb how are you?

Not doing too great at the moment but it's not all TTC stuff. Not sure how we're going to manage financially at the moment to even do FET in January, let alone any more ICSI if we need it :nope:


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## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> MJ-so sorry to hear this. ((Hugs))
> 
> Pink-sounds like everything went really well. I hope the 2ww isn't too hard on you!
> 
> Wibble-I'm sure 10 days will go by faster than you think. It is hard not to be consumed by all of this.
> 
> AFM-EC went well. We got 13 eggs. I was hoping for a few more because of our bad fertilization last time(4 out of 13), but am happy with 13. Hoping for good fertilization! My hope is for 6 fertilized!

13 eggs is great hun :thumbup: Keeping everything crossed for a great fertilisation report xx


----------



## Deb111

clayzor said:


> This condition, like others, is treatable. Have him take American Ginseng, Vitamin B6, Zinc. Arginine. L-Dopa, Safed Musli.

Thanks for the information. Pretty much all of these are in the fertility vitamins that many of our partners take. Does your partner have azoospermia? Has your dh had personal experience of the results of taking these supplements?

As I'm sure others will agree, we will try pretty much anything to treat the azoospermia, but improving low sperm production (clearly an understatement for many of our dh's, as some of our men clearly do make 'some' as they are found in SSR's - just obviously being made in minute numbers) and 'curing' men who aren't making ANY AT ALL, are 2 very different things

I look forward to hearing your story and successes xx


----------



## Deb111

Girls - I've noticed that I need to do some serious updating of the front page so to make it a bit easier for me, I'd be grateful if you could type your B'n'B name followed by relevant dates and information about * where you're at right now* - just a line or 2 - and then I can cut and paste to front page.

Thanks :xmas12:


----------



## Pink Lolly

Pink Lolly - First Donor IUI 9th December 2011 :happydance: OTD 22nd December


----------



## Bookworm

Bookworm - first ICSI cycle December 2011; OTD 23rd December:wacko:


----------



## Bookworm

Deb111 said:


> wibble wobble said:
> 
> 
> Deb how are you?
> 
> Not doing too great at the moment but it's not all TTC stuff. Not sure how we're going to manage financially at the moment to even do FET in January, let alone any more ICSI if we need it :nope:Click to expand...

Deb, I can only imagine the stress this putting on you :hugs: Keeping you in my thoughts; hope things get better soon.

Thanks for your thoughts too - I have to admit the pomegranate juice isn't great, but it's the walnuts I'm struggling with... But if I can stick myself with a needle twice a day I can handle a couple of nuts. 
As for relaxing... I'm on this site twice a day so I'm not sure that's working out:haha: I'm actually thinking that I should impose an Internet ban on myself to try to curb the obsessing... So if I don't post again for a while that'll be why:dohh:


----------



## Sar187

Sar187-IVF/ICSI #1 BFN Now on 2nd IVF/ICSI cycle, Hoping for a BFP!


----------



## Sar187

Deb-the financials of these things are so incredibly stressful. I hope things start getting better for you.

Bookworm-relaxing is a challenge sometimes during these things. Good luck!

AFM-they were able to ICSI all 13 eggs. Only 3 of them fertilized normally, so hoping we still have some good embies for transfer on Monday. We may be transferring all 3 of them.


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## Deb111

I recently read somewhere that over 50% of a woman's eggs are gentically abnormal and therefore not capable of fertilising or developing normally, so don't beat yourself up over figures hun

Praying that those 3 grow beautifully for you :kiss: xx


----------



## wibble wobble

wibble wobble: waiting for donor matching


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## KB38

KB38 - trying to decide what to do next .....


----------



## tigerlily1975

MJ73 said:


> Hi Girls,
> Well, we are just heartbroken, its a negative result for us today. I really had hopes for ths cycle, I think because I did actually get pregnant last time (even though we miscarried), I thought I might get lucky this time. Words can't express how devastated I'm feeling. Life just seems so cruel today. I sometimes wonder how we go on each day & just keep on going...
> MJ :xmas18:

Aww, I'm so sorry, MJ :hugs: :hugs:


----------



## tigerlily1975

Tigerlily - DH to have TESE in Feb/March 2012 (keeping everything crossed!)


----------



## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> Not doing too great at the moment but it's not all TTC stuff. Not sure how we're going to manage financially at the moment to even do FET in January, let alone any more ICSI if we need it :nope:

Oh, Deb :hugs: It's so frustrating that money can/could stop us from having that much desired baby. I hope you're able to work it out :hugs:

C xx


----------



## silverbell

I'm so sorry, MJ :hugs:


----------



## silverbell

silverbell - DH awaiting mTESE on 10 January


----------



## snd80

SND- Waiting for 1st IUI w/ Donor in May/June, 2012


----------



## Sar187

Just wanted to let everyone know that transfer went well today. We transferred 1 8 cell A quality embryo and 2 8 cell B quality embryos(some fragmentation but still looking really good). Transferring 3 was on the recommendation of the embryologist. Now the fun of the 2ww starts!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Well done sar - 3 embies! Wow! Sending you lots of :dust: xx


----------



## Bookworm

Great news Sar - get those feet up & take good care of yourself!


----------



## snd80

Yay Sar! Good luck sweetie!


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## Deb111

Great news Sar! They sound great embies. Keeoing everything crossed for you xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

That's fantastic, Sar! Keeping everything crossed for you!


----------



## wibble wobble

Got my fingers crossed for you sar xx


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## KB38

Fingers crossed for you Sar :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Just stopping by to see how you're all doing.

Sar, Bookworm and Pink Lolly - hope the 2WW is being kind to you all xx :hugs:


----------



## silverbell

Wow, nice one Sar. 

Keeping everything crossed for all those in the 2ww at the moment :dust: :dust: :dust:


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## Sar187

I tested out of my trigger shot BFN's 5dpt and 6dpt on Ic's then a light line today(7dpt). I broke down and took an FRER and got a definite line(I didn't even have to squint) in about 30 seconds. I am being cautiously optimistic since last cycle I got a line 6dpt that was gone by 10dpt, however I am feeling good about this cycle and have a feeling this one is both real and going to stick!


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## Deb111

Great news Sar! I'm keeping everything crossed that that line keeps getting darker for you xx :hugs:


----------



## Pink Lolly

Great news sar! Fingers crossed! Xx


----------



## Bookworm

That sounds really hopeful Sar! Are you testing everyday?

I was intending not to test until Thursday at earliest (13dp3dt) but I cracked last night & took a FRER :cloud9: we got a lovely strong BFP... Very early days yet but feeling very hopeful.

Hope everyone else is coping with the TWW:flower:


----------



## Deb111

Fabulous news Bookworm!! What a lovely early christmas present :xmas8:


----------



## mumanddad

Awww merry christmas hun and congratulations x


----------



## Deb111

How are you doing Hayleigh? Not long to go! :happydance:


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## mumanddad

Im good thank you how are you? 

I have been around reading just kept silent for a while xx


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## Deb111

Hanging in there I guess :shrug:


----------



## Sar187

Bookworm-Congrats! That is awesome! 11dp3dt is standard for blood tests for RE's over here so I would say its good news! I am testing every day and am now 8dp3dt and the line was quite a bit darker today and showed up within like 5 seconds. I go for a blood test on Friday!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Congratulations Bookworm! It sounds like a great Christmas present.

A somewhat personal question for all of you... Since we found out about the azoo, we have been having a hard time getting into sex. It seems to be on his mind and it's definitely on mine. How do we get past this?


----------



## Bookworm

Sar sounds like good news for you too! Good luck for Friday - I've just to do a HPT tomorrow (they give you one and advise you do a second bought one for control purposes) then I phone in the results...

CanadianMaple, I can't say we had an 'issue' with this - for me getting he diagnosis helped as i felt it took the pressure off every month, though of course it introduced a whole new basket of pressure. But DHs libido disk suffer a little and he said it was because he felt 'there was no point' and though he didn't say it I think there were issues about his self-image and masculinity too. 
I just had to remind him that it's not all about BD - we had a great sex life pre-TTC... And I needed a little patience to let him process things too

Probably the thing is to understand where he issues are coming from for you both- & this is a really stressful time too & that will have an effect.


----------



## mumanddad

Deb111 said:


> Hanging in there I guess :shrug:

:hugs: i hope it will be your turn soon xx


----------



## Deb111

CanadianMaple - I wish I had an answer for you, but at least I can reassure you that you are not alone :hugs:

My husband has hormone issues (low testosterone and underactive thyroid) which definitely don't help his libido and things weren't easy in the :sex: dept for quite a few months leading up to the diagnosis. I hoped it was just the pressure of knowing exactly when was the right time of the month etc - I'm sure we've all been there.

However, when we got the diagnosis, hubby turned round to the consultant and I remember his words so clearly "so is there any point in us still trying naturally?" the reply was "no point whatsoever". I didn't know who I wanted to hit most - hubby for asking the question or the consultant for (as far as I viewed it) putting an end to our sex life :growlmad::growlmad:

We talked about it on the journey home and hubby said he actually thought it would help as the pressure had been taken away.

Well our diagnosis was in April 2010. We :sex: once in sept 2010 and we've now been 15 months since :cry:

What can I do? The more I try to discuss it with him, the more he says he feels pressured and that's hardly going to lead to anything wonderful. Plus, it's pretty humiliating to feel like you're having to beg your husband for sex. I don't bother anymore :nope: How many times can a girl take being turned down? :shrug:


----------



## mumanddad

Aww hun im sorry your going through this :( xxx


----------



## MissAma

Sar and Bookworm - congrats!!! Great stuff, internal pictures and heart beats next!

Deb - so sorry babes! It's confidence wrecking that they have libido issues... Maybe we should sneak them some Viagra in their tea!


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi Guys, 
Congrats to Sar & Bookworm! Stick beanies stick! What a fantastic Christmas you guys are going to have and you deserve it after all this time. 

In relation to your OH's sex drive, I do think every man is different, my OH hasnt been (thankfully) affected at all. I have tried really hard to make him feel special and show that I 'still' really fancy him, regardless - which I do anyway, so it has come naturally. Also like you have said, it has almost taken the pressure off of us, it is no longer 
for TTC. It is important to talk about it and keep the communication open, I would recommend counselling if possible as well really have no idea of alot of what goes on in our mens minds. 

We got our date, 18th Jan, to finally find out if my OH will ever be able to have biological children - my OH had his final scan last week and the specialist is going to tell him if he is operable to remove scar tissue, if he says no, donor is our next option. It is very scarey thinking we will know which way our path is going to take us. I am being optimistic, but if I allow myself I really dont know what i will do if we find out I cant have my OH's babies, it really does. :(
But I do know we will pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and move on. 

Ok Guys, I want to wish you all an amazing Xmas, thank you for the support, advice and allowing me to vent and vanish all at the same time. 
Lets hope and pray 2012 is going to be all our years!! 
Have fun guys 
xxxxxxx


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## Sar187

I got my official results today and BFP! My Beta draw came in at 116!


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## Deb111

Fabulous news Sar - now I can officially update the front page! :happydance:


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## tigerlily1975

Conratulations, Bookworm! :happydance:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Yay, Sar! :happydance: That's wonderful!

C xx


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## Pink Lolly

Congrats sar and bookworm :happydance:

I just realised I never updated here - :bfn: for me so we're onto iui #2 in jan/feb 2012 x


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## Deb111

Pink Lolly said:


> I just realised I never updated here - :bfn: for me so we're onto iui #2 in jan/feb 2012 x

:hug:


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## Bookworm

Congratulations Sar! Fab news - have a lovely Christmas.


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## Bookworm

Pink Lolly said:


> Congrats sar and bookworm :happydance:
> 
> I just realised I never updated here - :bfn: for me so we're onto iui #2 in jan/feb 2012 x

Thank you so much - really sorry it didn't work. How are you?
Hope you have a good Christmas break.:hugs:


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## Deb111

Well I'd like to wish an amazingly strong, supportive group of girls and their dh's a Happy Christmas! :xmas9:

To those of you who have been blessed with an adorable :baby: - enjoy your first christmas together! (or MissAma - I think maybe it's your second christmas with the gorgeous Dara?) 

To those of you who are still struggling, I hope you are able to put the sadness and frustration to one side for a day (so much easier said than done - I know!) and enjoy christmas with you family / friends. I'm praying that next year you will have your little bundles of joy too (or at least a lovely big bump!) :hug:

Well I can honestly say this is the most I've laughed in a LONG time!!! (Thanks SB - saw yours in your journal :thumbup:)

Make sure your speakers are on

https://sendables.jibjab.com/view/rWOK6TRMfjgZz82p


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## snd80

Yay Sar and Bookworm!!!! :happydance: Merry Christmas to you! :happydance:

Can't help but wishing that this time next year I will have a bump myself... wouldn't it be nice! That is the only thing that is keeping me going this Christmas...

Wishing every one of my "sisters" on here a Very Merry Christmas! :hugs: to each of you!!!!!


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## mumanddad

Merry christmas lovely ladies xxx


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## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> Well I'd like to wish an amazingly strong, supportive group of girls and their dh's a Happy Christmas! :xmas9:
> 
> To those of you who have been blessed with an adorable :baby: - enjoy your first christmas together! (or MissAma - I think maybe it's your second christmas with the gorgeous Dara?)
> 
> To those of you who are still struggling, I hope you are able to put the sadness and frustration to one side for a day (so much easier said than done - I know!) and enjoy christmas with you family / friends. I'm praying that next year you will have your little bundles of joy too (or at least a lovely big bump!) :hug:

What a lovely message, Deb, thank you. I hope that all of us who are not pregnant by now all have big, massive, uncomfortable bumps this time next year :cloud9: 

Sar and Bookworm - what wonderful, amazing news just before Christmas. You must both be over the moon. Congratulations indeed :happydance:

Merry Christmas to all my fellow azoo ladies. :xmas6:


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## Sar187

Thanks so much for all the congrats! 

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas! 

Pink lolly- sorry to hear about the failed IUI, I am praying #2 will do it for you! ((HUGS))


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## CanadianMaple

Just bumping our thread up for someone so posted about an azoo SA. 

Congratulations Sar187! 

We have been starting to talk openly about everything with our friends and family. It's been interesting to see the reactions. My mom thinks we should make it easy on ourselves and look at donor sperm. DH alternates from wanting to do TESE/IVF/ICSI and then back to being happy with my son. At least this has pushed us toward step-parent adoption. My son's father has been a deadbeat.


----------



## raelynn

Hi everyone. I'm joining in since we just received DH's SA results back with no sperm present. My obgyn suggested a retest but we're preparing for the worst and trying to adjust to this new obstacle. I have no idea where we go from here so it is nice to find others going through the same thing.


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## Deb111

Hi Raelynn and welcome :flower:

So sorry to hear your news, but you've come to the right place. When you feel ready, take some time to read through some of the stories on the thread - every single one of our stories is different; different reasons / causes, different processes, different decisions, different outcomes, but you will gain an awful lot of info.

You're right not to get your hopes up about a second SA, but def still worth getting one done - and make sure you check that they centrifuge the sample - they can sometimes find an odd one or 2 by doing that.

Even if that sample is the same, don't lose hope. Check out the 'spoilers' on the front page of this thread for some things you need to be following up and tests you need to make sure are done

Anything you want to know, just ask - someone will have an answer for you and if you want to rant - rant away - there's nothing about this diagnosis that is fair :hugs:


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi everyone hope you've all had a lovely christmas and haven't done what I have and piled on mega loads of weight.... feeling a little porky right now!!!

Hi Raelynn welcome to the thread.

congrats sar, not sure if I've been on since you got your bfp it's been a busy couple of weeks for me.

Congrats to Bookworm too


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## CanadianMaple

Could I please be added to the header in the front page? Diagnosed Dec 1, first RE appointment on Jan 25.


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## Deb111

I've added your info canadianmaple :thumbup:


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## CanadianMaple

Thank you so much. I guess this means that I am an official, card carrying, Azoo club member. ;)

Can I just say how thankful I am for this group? I am still reading through old posts and I love seeing pregnancy tickers in some signatures while reading about their journeys.


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## MissAma

Heh Deb l am not in the list and l am probably the oldest BnB azoospermic! Outrageous! Heh joking but if you want to write it then it's LTTTC since 2006, NOA diagnosed April 2008 - successful SSR and iCSI in Spain 2008 - chemical no frosties- new SSR an ICSI in Sweden 2010 - Dara Tea Maria our miracle azoo baby born 11th of Dec 2010 - 3rd SSR on the 17th of January 2012. 

Have a lovely NYE spermless future and existent parents and may 2012 be beyond awesome!


----------



## Viola77

My DH has no sperm also after any injury last year. We are TTC a sibling for dd since March 2010 but he never got his swimmers back:cry: Has anyone looked into donor sperm? DH and i wanted to have a big family so no sperm does not fit well into our plans....... very disheartening. lots of baby dust to all:)


----------



## snd80

Hi Rae and V! Welcome! :friends: 

V- we are going for donor next year. We were thinking May/June, but maybe sooner... depending on how busy I am at work during income tax season. I am SUPER excited!!! Hubby seems ok w/ it. He knows it is the only way I will be happy if I stay with him. I didn't see where you were from, but we are ordering from xytex.com... they even have international too. Like I keep telling ppl, it is like picking your baby daddy out all over again! LOL!

Hope everyone else is doing well and had a great Christmas... I spent the holiday weekend sick in the bed with a head/chest cold! Merry Christmas to me! haha! Now I am just counting down the days til this shitty year is OVER!!! I am SOOOOOO ready for next year and all the potential exciting things that are coming due to us! :happydance:

Hope everyone has a great New Years! :hugs: to all!!!


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## Deb111

Viola77 said:


> My DH has no sperm also after any injury last year. We are TTC a sibling for dd since March 2010 but he never got his swimmers back:cry: Has anyone looked into donor sperm? DH and i wanted to have a big family so no sperm does not fit well into our plans....... very disheartening. lots of baby dust to all:)

Welcome Viola :flower:

Without knowing much about your situation, could the injury have just damaged things internally meaning that your dh is still making sperm, but they just aren't getting out?

Has he had any blood tests / investigations done?


----------



## nikalicious

Hi Ladies, :hi:

I have been reading all of your stories and admire the strength you all have for going though something so difficult. :hugs:

I don't want my question to come off as insensitive, as it is in no way intended to be. You ladies have gone through a lot. :shy: I worry about this as I have seen other posters on different topics offend ladies who have been LTTTCing and it was very upsetting to see someone so insensitive. I just wanted get advice from people who have dealt with azoospermia. 

DH (30) and I (26) have not been TTC all that long, however he was diagnosed with an auto-immune disease 3 years ago and has been on medication since then. The auto-immune and medication are known to cause azoospermia, it is actually the most common side affect of the drug. As we have not been TTC for over a year, it's unlikely that the doctor will let us do a SA, however we have not tried yet. DH has not been diagnosed with azoospermia, but it is a concern based on his disease and medications. My question is if you think it would be worth it to request a SA now before TTC for over a year? My thought in requesting the SA now would be so save the heartache of going through an entire year of TTC just to find out he has azoospermia.

I really appreciate any help you're willing/able to provide. GL and FX'd for all of you! :flower:


----------



## Deb111

nikalicious said:


> Hi Ladies, :hi:
> 
> I have been reading all of your stories and admire the strength you all have for going though something so difficult. :hugs:
> 
> I don't want my question to come off as insensitive, as it is in no way intended to be. You ladies have gone through a lot. :shy: I worry about this as I have seen other posters on different topics offend ladies who have been LTTTCing and it was very upsetting to see someone so insensitive. I just wanted get advice from people who have dealt with azoospermia.
> 
> DH (30) and I (26) have not been TTC all that long, however he was diagnosed with an auto-immune disease 3 years ago and has been on medication since then. The auto-immune and medication are known to cause azoospermia, it is actually the most common side affect of the drug. As we have not been TTC for over a year, it's unlikely that the doctor will let us do a SA, however we have not tried yet. DH has not been diagnosed with azoospermia, but it is a concern based on his disease and medications. My question is if you think it would be worth it to request a SA now before TTC for over a year? My thought in requesting the SA now would be so save the heartache of going through an entire year of TTC just to find out he has azoospermia.
> 
> I really appreciate any help you're willing/able to provide. GL and FX'd for all of you! :flower:

Your question in no way offends me and I'm sure it wont offend anyone else here :flower:

As you say it is a side effect of his disease and meds, I would definitely get a SA done. If you feel you have an understanding doctor then just explain that you are TTC and are worried about the effects of his meds / disease. If you don't think that would get you anywhere, then, in your situation, I think you would be quite justified to 'exagerate' the length of time you have been trying for. It's not like you're jumping the queue or getting something for free that you should be paying for, you're just pushing things through a bit quicker because of the situation your dh is on

Good luck and please keep us posted xx


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## silverbell

Completely agree with Deb. 

I myself told a white lie to the GP in order to get ourselves tested. I think we went just after my 9th failed cycle, so near enough in my opinion. We said we'd been trying for 1 year. I'm so glad we didn't wait any longer.

Wishing you all the best and hoping it's a great result for you both. :hugs:


----------



## snd80

Nick, I also agree with Deb and SB. I only wish we would have found out sooner and saved myself years and years of hopes, wishes and heartache; and maybe, just maybe, I would have already been a mommy by now! We waited 10 years until we really started digging into our problem... The sooner the better in my opinion! Even if you have to lie to get things on the ball! Best wishes!!!!!


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## nikalicious

Thanks ladies! I really appreciate the advice and support! :hugs: 

He is going to talk to his Rheumatologist about getting on different medication, however the research that we have done shows there aren't really any other drugs he can take because they all pretty much have the same side effects and some of them are even worse (cancer causing!). :dohh:

Unfortunately because of the type of auto-immune he has (Behcet's), there is very little research that is conclusive and most of it really outdated (over 10+ years). The disease mainly affects individuals in Asia and Middle Eastern countries, rarely people in the US and there is no cure for it, only maintenance through medication to control flare-ups. It took him over a 1 1/2 to be diagnosed with it because most doctor's are familiar with it here. 

He'll also ask about the SA and possibly fib if he has any push-back from the doctor. Not sure if the Rheumatologist can order the SA test or if it has to be done by an RE- do any of you in the states know? He's got an appointment on 1/13, so I will let you know how it does!!:hugs:


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## raelynn

Nik, my obgyn referred us for my hubby's SA and the retest so it doesn't have to be by an RE here in the states.

We just submitted our retest today but hubby had a lot of trouble this morning since we were under pressure to fit it into a specific time for our drop off appointment. I doubt that these results will be any better since, if anything, he was more uncomfortable and under more pressure even though we were at home.


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## CanadianMaple

We had only been TTC since July, but since I had been charting since 2005, my doctor took me seriously when I told him I was concerned about my cycles being so long. We did bloodwork on me and my LH and estrogen/testosterone were off. He referred me to a gyn at first, and then agreed that we should do a SA on my DH. His doctor had refused and actually made a sex joke. We were floored when we got his results back. Since he's 43, I'm so glad we didn't wait the whole year. I would absolutely stretch the truth about how long we were ttc if we had to do it over again with DH's doctor.


----------



## Deb111

Well, I know it's a bit early, but we have Terry's aunt here for new year so not sure if I'll get a chance to come on B'n'B before 'the big countdown'!

So, unfortunately the '2011 has to be better than 2010' promise never came true. I know we've had some positive news in terms of finding tiny numbers of sperm and in getting some great embies, but in many ways I actually feel even further back in our journey than I did before - hard to explain though.

Anyway, we have to look forward to 2012 because what's the alternative? :shrug: 

I don't think I am the only one here who will be glad to see the back of 2011 (with the exception of our graduates :baby: :happydance:) Things have to progress in the next 12 months, for all of us, however slowly and frustratingly that might be and however much we have to fight to get things done - and boy do us azoo ladies know how to fight for what we want?! :wink:

So to those of you who have already got your precious bundles - thank you for giving us hope. Make sure you don't forget us and 'visit' us whenever you can :hugs:

For those of you who are still battling this every single day, I'm not going to say "I know 2012 will be our year" because let's be honest, non of us can predict the future, but I keep you all in my thoughts and prayers and hope that 2012 will bring you closer to your dreams.

So yes, 2011 has been a crappy year (for many of us) and I wouldn't wish this diagnosis on anyone, but I have to say that it is only because of this hell that I have been truly privaledged to have 'met' each and every one of you and will always be eternally grateful for all of your support. You really are the only people who 'get it' when to everyone else I'm 'over-reacting' or 'blowing things out of all proportion' or 'being irrational'! I know that we will continue to support those new members who join us too. I'm sure I'm not alone in getting that awful sinking feeling when I see a new member's name - but also that feeling of being pleased that they have found such a great group and hopefully wont feel quite so alone in this. So I'd like to thank you all for making this group what it is :kiss:

I'm really not into all the 'Happy New Year' pictures and fireworks but saw this image and thought it was quite symbolic - washing away 2011 and moving forwards ..... xxxx
 



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## CanadianMaple

Happy new year to you too. What a beautiful post. I hope that 2012 brings all of us another step (or 10) closer to our babies we all long for.


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## deafgal01

Guess I should introduce myself. Been reading some of the posts in this forum since last night (I'm now on page 94) so might be a while longer to catch up on what's up with you all and the information I've yet to learn.

I'm 29, DH is 29. We have been ttc for #1 for more than a year now (as of Dec. even though DH says it hasn't been that long) but at least the dr I went to referred us for tests and stuff. Just got DH's results of the SA yesterday. He went in to give a SA sample at noon and they gave him the results (and did a physical exam) at 1:50. The dr commented that his balls are smaller than average and took blood to check the hormones.

I was crushed to hear that he has 0 sperms. I did the worst thing possible when he came home after telling me that- I laughed my head off because I got this image in my head at realizing all these years we invested in condoms and he was shooting blanks? What a waste of money on condoms that was. Since then the shock has worn off and I've cried some. I managed to find my way over here last night before bed and have been trying to figure out what the chances of us having a baby of our genes (seems like there's a slim chance but not without some help). Granted they will want to do a second SA to make sure, and they'll want to do more exams. Meanwhile, I will go ahead and get my u/s done next week to rule out other issues we might have to prepare for (which I'm expecting there to be none considering how regular my period is and all).

Guess I'm going to be joining you ladies for the long haul. This is only the beginning of my hard journey but I see it will still bear a fruit of some kind somewhere along it. :hugs:

At the moment, it's just DH and me that knows (and my Bnb followers on my journal- which includes one real life friend out of state). :hugs: I'm just relieved that we're not the first or only couple to deal with this "infertility" issue. I'm angry that we turned out to be in that group, I wanted to have his baby by now damn it. But that will take more tests and time than I figured. Thanks for listening and I will be reading some more of your stories and experiences with the tests and stuff along your journey.


----------



## Deb111

Hi Deafgal and welcome :flower:

I'm so sorry to hear of your diagnosis and I'm sure you will realise from the posts you have read, that you will go through every emotion possible over the next few eeks and months - never be afraid to let it all out on here - we've all been there and are still there often.

Good luck with your tests and keep us posted xx


----------



## KB38

Happy 2012 everyone. Fingers are crossed for less :cry: and more :cloud9: for all of us! Thank you all for your support in 2011 - not the year I expected but I've "met" a wonderful group of people here, so not entirely bad :flower:


----------



## KB38

PS Nic, I absolutely agree with what the other girls have said about telling a little white lie to get the SA happening. The less months wasted on tears and heartache the better in my view. Trust your instinct if you think that something isn't quite right, I wish I had!


----------



## Pink Lolly

KB38 said:


> PS Nic, I absolutely agree with what the other girls have said about telling a little white lie to get the SA happening. The less months wasted on tears and heartache the better in my view. Trust your instinct if you think that something isn't quite right, I wish I had!

Totally agree with this. We waited until we had been properly trying for 12 months and ntnp for 4 
months before that... I so wish we'd gone sooner and that's the ine thing I'd change if I could go back x


----------



## Pink Lolly

Happy new year girls :flower:

I know we are all glad to see the back of 2011, and I really hope that 2012 is better for us all.

To get to the rainbow you first have to get through the rain.

Sending lots of :dust: :dust: :dust:


----------



## CanadianMaple

dealgal01, we just got a diagnosis like that on Dec 1. I found the first 2-3 weeks to horrid, I couldn't seem to be able to even talk about it and went from obsessively TTC to a dead stop. It's so, so hard. I hope you get answers soon. We get our first appointment on Jan 25. DH's testicles seems smaller than average too, something I hadn't even really noticed until just before we got his SA done. 

Here's to 2012 being a great year for all of us!


----------



## raelynn

So glad I found this group as well. I've now moved out of shock and into sadness. I can't seem to stop crying over this new diagnosis. I'm sure it will pass but right now I'm just tired of feeling so depressed. Glad we have each other at least.

Sure hope the new year brings better news for all of us!


----------



## silverbell

Happy New Year, girlies.

I'm so sorry to see a few new names over the past few days. It's very sad, but as always I'm pleased that you guys have found yourself here on this thread. Lots of words of wisdom, support and endless understanding.

What a beautiful post, Deb, and I really loved the sand picture - very fitting.

I'm so hopeful that this time next year there will be lots more ladies on this thread with either baby or pregnancy tickers.

:dust:


----------



## wibble wobble

Happy New Year everyone xxx

I myself hate new year,it just reminds me of what I haven't achieved in the last year! Things that haven't happened (yet) and people that aren't around anymore. If only people really knew what was going on inside your head when they wished you a happy new year... I don't even like saying well it can't be any worse than last year... 2011 was a really crappy year but 2010 still ranks worse even tho back then I was oblivious to azoospermia and would have replied with bless you if someone had mentioned it back then :haha:

Welcome to the newbies, sorry you've found yourselves here, but it is a good thread with lots of support the people have tons of info between them... 

I'm still classing myself as someone who knows very little and I'm unlikely to be of much help to anyone. Our azoo journey was quite short lived (hubby still has it) we just reached the end of that road with confirmation nothing could be done. Looking back it happened really quickly we got the first zero sa in mid march and by mid october we were talking through our other options to get our family. Those 7 months dragged by really slowly with plenty of low times and not many highs and I'm so glad that they are over and we can move on. My only advice to people just finding out is (and I know from personal experience it's difficult to do) try not to let the diagnosis consume you, don't live your life looking forward to the next appointment. Try to book in days/nights outs and breaks away to be a couple. Be hopeful but not too hopeful. It only knocks you harder and hurts more if you don't seriously consider all outcomes.

3 weeks tomorrow we have our next appointment with our consultant, I'm hoping that we're finally going to get referred to the donation co-ordinator and we can begin the countdown to hopefully starting diui. I'm also hoping that my test results are all normal. I did have an issue with my prolactin being high but I'm not going to consider having a problem until the results of the retest are through.... stress affects prolactin and who isn't stressed in december,when their shift started over an hour ago and some nurse is trying to figure out how to get blood out of a vein?!?

So here's to 2012 it's going to be a tough year for most of us on here, but some of us are going to be lucky enough to have our dreams come true and if we're not cuddling little babies by the end of 2012 we'll be growing fat with them


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## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> Happy New Year, girlies.
> 
> I'm so sorry to see a few new names over the past few days. It's very sad, but as always I'm pleased that you guys have found yourself here on this thread. Lots of words of wisdom, support and endless understanding.
> 
> What a beautiful post, Deb, and I really loved the sand picture - very fitting.
> 
> I'm so hopeful that this time next year there will be lots more ladies on this thread with either baby or pregnancy tickers.
> 
> :dust:

Good Luck for Dh's mtese I just noticed your ticker is down to 8 days. I'll have my fingers crossed that all goes well on the day


----------



## CanadianMaple

raelynn- It wasn't all that long ago that I was the same way. I could barely function. The thought of it was so overwhelming. It slowly got better and finally having a date on the calendar to see a doctor about it changed things dramatically for us. 

I'm really nervous that IVF is going to be out of reach for us. DH is 43 and we just don't have the time to save. We're also going through the process of him adopting my child, his father has been MIA and stopped paying support. It will likely have to go to a hearing and cost a lot in lawyer's fees. We both have good jobs though and worry we may regret it if we don't do it. It's scary to think that our line of credit could suddenly become huge and not get a baby in the end. We're newlyweds too and haven't had a lot of time to save, especially with my student loans.

For those of you who had a partner do Tesa/Tese/Pesa/etc... Did they do it before you even started IVF to see how it looks or was it saved as a surprise the day before the ER?


----------



## raelynn

Well ladies, we just received the call for the results of the 2nd SA. Same results as before, no sperm present. I guess I'm an official member of the dealing with azoospermia club :cry:

DH is currently very dismissive. This is hard for him to accept. We're going to make an appointment with the fertility specialist next. What should we expect to happen there? Just wondering what our next steps will be...hopefully we can move forward fairly quickly though it seems everything in dealing with infertility takes forever.


----------



## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> For those of you who had a partner do Tesa/Tese/Pesa/etc... Did they do it before you even started IVF to see how it looks or was it saved as a surprise the day before the ER?

Most clinics will do it beforehand as it is a lot of expense and a lot to put YOUR body through to possibly find no sperm. If a clinic is prepared to do it all at the same time, they usually want you to have a back-up donor so as not to waste the woman's cycle. 

My hubby had had TESE on the NHS and they found 3 but discarded them. This told our private consultant that he was pretty sure to find 'some' and therefore he didn't insist on a backup xx


----------



## Deb111

raelynn said:


> Well ladies, we just received the call for the results of the 2nd SA. Same results as before, no sperm present. I guess I'm an official member of the dealing with azoospermia club :cry:
> 
> DH is currently very dismissive. This is hard for him to accept. We're going to make an appointment with the fertility specialist next. What should we expect to happen there? Just wondering what our next steps will be...hopefully we can move forward fairly quickly though it seems everything in dealing with infertility takes forever.

I'm so sorry raelynn :hugs:

Check out the first page / first post of this thread under one of the 'spoliers' - there's some info there ablut what to expect at first appts and what you might want to ask xx


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm sorry. I found the confirmation just as hard. My husband was very dismissive for the first few weeks, especially while I was still crying all the time. I think he was crushed and seeing me so upset threw him into protective mode. 

I'm not sure what to expect with the fertility clinic either. I'm glad you asked. :)


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## tigerlily1975

Happy New Year lovely ladies :hi:

I hope you all enjoyed the festive period. I ate waaaaay too much, so definitely need to start cutting back again. The consultant always nags me about my weight (curvy size 14s can't have ICSI I guess!), but we've a few months before our next visit, so it's Rivitas and Zumba for me!

A big 'Hello!' to the new lasses. Even though we've known for some time, it's still something that's always sitting in the back of your mind. Finding this group and the wonderful women on here has been a life-saver. Not only for the wealth of information, but it's the support, the positive stories and mostly just knowing that someone else is going through it too. That you're not alone in trying to deal with this. 

As for 2012, I think Deb put it perfectly, you want to approach a new year with new hope, but you also know that this could be the year when your greatest fears are realised.

BUT I just wanted to share a story with you that, well, is probably not great for all of us right now, but it's HOPE for couples who may have this problem 10 years from now:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8988011/Scientists-grow-sperm-in-laboratory-dish.html

Wouldn't it be great if couples never have to go through any of this, ever again? 

On that little bit of good news, i'm going to say tara and send you all BIG :hugs: and tonnes of good luck!

C xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

Wow that's amazing!!


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## Sar187

Becky-It is a hard decision to make. Just take the time and make sure you make the decision that is best for you and your DH. I have really found that when they prefer to do the TESE depends a lot on where you are at. I know for these ladies in the UK most places prefer to do the TESE beforehand to make sure there is a chance. Over here in the US most clinics prefer to do synchronous cycles where Egg Retrieval and Sperm retrieval are done on the same day. The clinic I went to actually did my retrieval first and then once they knew I had viable eggs did DH's Retrieval. They did recommend a Donor back up however we declined that option. The reason they do it like that is because they want things to happen as quickly as possibly and like to use Fresh sperm for the first IVF cycle, They also prefer over here to only do one surgery on DH, which leads them to preferring a synchronous retrieval. 

raelynn-So sorry to see another new face here. This thread has some great information in it and lots of reasons for the azoospermia diagnosis. 

Wibble-Don't feel too bad about the weight 2 back to back fresh cycles of IVF/ICSI added about 8lbs for me. Add to that bloating and I haven't been able to button my pants since 2 days before my EC.

Viola-Welcome to the group though I am sorry to see yet another one joining us. There are a lot of stories on here and a great group of ladies. 

Nikalicious-I agree with the other ladies that fudging a little in certain situations is not a problem. Also since you know that can be a side effect of the meds I would think they would not make you try for a year anyway without getting tested. Best of luck! DH's SA was ordered by our family doctor, and he just had to go to the local hospital with the lab requisition, he was then referred to a fertility urologist after getting the results.

deafgal-Welcome, you really have found an awesome group here. You will go through so many emotions with this diagnosis. Just know we are all here to help you along the way. 

AFM-My Beta results have been great, My clinic requires 4 blood draws to make sure numbers are rising as expected and my HCG Beta numbers were 11dp3dt-116 14dp3dt-310 16dp3dt-681 and 18dp3dt-1730! They were very happy with them as am I. I am scheduled for a first u/s to get a look at the baby or babies on Jan. 9th. I am still in disbelief that this 2nd cycle worked and after over 3 years of trying I am really pregnant. 

I have never been a fan of the new year, but I am praying that 2012 brings some good progress and hopefully some bumps and babies for everyone.


----------



## Bookworm

Deb111 said:


> So to those of you who have already got your precious bundles - thank you for giving us hope. Make sure you don't forget us and 'visit' us whenever you can :hugs:

:hugs:thanks for that Deb, I know it's still very early days for us; I've been lurking around since our good news but not sure about posting...


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## Sar187

Apparently the computer lied when it said my post wasn't posted....so disregard this one :).


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## deafgal01

Thanks Sar. Just had my ultrasound/intravaginal one today. Now we just sit tight and wait for the next appt in 2 weeks. I wonder what they will want to do in order to help us to get pregnant.


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## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> AFM-My Beta results have been great, My clinic requires 4 blood draws to make sure numbers are rising as expected and my HCG Beta numbers were 11dp3dt-116 14dp3dt-310 16dp3dt-681 and 18dp3dt-1730! They were very happy with them as am I. I am scheduled for a first u/s to get a look at the baby or babies on Jan. 9th. I am still in disbelief that this 2nd cycle worked and after over 3 years of trying I am really pregnant.
> 
> I have never been a fan of the new year, but I am praying that 2012 brings some good progress and hopefully some bumps and babies for everyone.

Sar - those betas are fab!!! Can't wait to hear how many :baby: you've got in there! xx


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## snd80

Tiger- AWESOME article! I wish I could sign up my hubby for the research!!! LOL! TY for sharing!


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## mumanddad

i hope this is a positive year for this group, and hope more ladies get there BFPS!!

Hello to the ladies who have recently joined- sorry you are going through these tough times x


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## Deb111

Fab article Tiger! Thanks for sharing xx


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## deafgal01

Ok, my husband's blood results came in today. He's scheduled to have another blood draw tomorrow to check the levels again to make sure they got it right but his prolactin is high and the testerone is low. I keep remembering I read something about that somewhere in this forum or something but I can't find it now. Help? I'm trying to prepare my mind for what possibilities this would mean for us.


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## Deb111

Deafgal - I think it was one of my posts that you are talking about - we thought hubby had high prolactin levels at one point.

Check out page 51 of this thread

Good luck and let us know how tomorrow goes xx


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## deafgal01

Googled that to research some more into it after reviewing that page as you suggested... Interesting... My husband is on medicine for his gas reflux thing. My dr said that shouldn't be a problem but we'll find out eventually after he undergoes more testings (another sperm count and another blood test). Be interesting to find out if that's the side effect of that medicine or if it's something else.

Hopefully in our case, it's an easy fix. We will see... It still doesn't explain why we never conceived before that medicine though (he didn't start this medicine until July 2011) so that's 6 months of unexplained possibility (taking into account we've been trying since Dec. 2010). I'm keeping an open mind but at the same time I'm trying to prepare my heart for the possibility that they'll have other news that we'll have to accept (surgery or sperm donor or something else). More waiting to see. I never thought I would be so eager to find out the results of my stuff but I have to remind myself that all in time will be given to us to know.

Dr wants me to do OPK to track my ovulation. Not sure how that's going to help since it appears the problem is on DH's side but I will do it anyways so they can see what the pattern is in terms of my ovulation cycles. It's weird, first two days of finding out, I was torn up inside and on the brisk of tears all day long. Since having that "girls' night in" at a girlfriend's house and letting her in on the secret that we may need help conceiving, she's been extremely supportive (ironically cuz she's single and not trying) but it was just what I needed at that time. I've been upbeat since then but keeping my mind open to more "bad" news in terms of us conceiving naturally. I'll have time to cry about it later since we don't know enough right now.

How are you ladies doing? I hope the ones who are trying right now get their bfps finally with the help of drs. :dust: As for those of us who are still just finding out about this, I hope that you get your referrals and tests done asap so that we can all get our forever babies. :hugs: For the ones who already have success, thank you for giving us hope that in the end we can still have our babies. :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Well, it looks like we're starting our FET cycle tomorrow :argh:

For those of you who haven't read ALL about it in my journal, it's been a really hard decision figuring out whether to do it in Jan or Feb :blush:

I phoned the clinic this morning (the first day they were open after christmas / new year) to see if they could fit me in for my scan either wed, thurs or fri morning, thinking they might say they couldn't and then I'd have had to go with Feb, but I have an appt at 10am tomorrow but I'm still not sure if it's the right month to be doing it. Hopefully I will feel more reassured once I have been tomorrow. The clinic said I'm fine physically to go for FET after having a couple of months off after the ICSI, I'm just not sure if I'm ready mentally or emotionally, but then again, I'm not sure I'm mentally or emotionally up to waiting another month when it's always been January I've been aiming for :shrug:


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## deafgal01

Deb :dust: GOOD LUCK GIRL! I hope this helps you get your bfp! :hugs:


----------



## raelynn

deafgal01 said:


> It's weird, first two days of finding out, I was torn up inside and on the brisk of tears all day long. Since having that "girls' night in" at a girlfriend's house and letting her in on the secret that we may need help conceiving, she's been extremely supportive (ironically cuz she's single and not trying) but it was just what I needed at that time. I've been upbeat since then but keeping my mind open to more "bad" news in terms of us conceiving naturally. I'll have time to cry about it later since we don't know enough right now.

This sounds like me exactly! I was a mess for two days straight. Everything seemed to bring me to tears. I finally broke down and spoke with my sister about it. I cried my eyes out to her. She had very little in terms of advice or information since she too is single and not trying but she just let me sob and told me it would happen one way or another and that when it does happen I'll be a great mom. That must have been exactly what I needed. Since then I have a whole new attitude. I know we can tackle this. It will be a rough journey but we'll make it and we'll have our baby eventually (whether naturally, using donor, or adopting) and that baby will be loved to death because of this struggle for it.


----------



## deafgal01

rae :hugs: Fingers crossed that eventually somewhere at end of that journey we all get our babies (whether it be from our men's sperms, or a donor, or adoption)... One way or another we'll get there. :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

I tried to go to work the day after we found out and my boss sent me home. I tried to give her a head's up and couldn't get a handle on myself. It was truly awful. Like someone died. We had pictured out baby, had names, and everyone knew we were TTC. It was like that little bundle was ripped out of our arms.

I feel lucky, I have a 3.5 year old from a previous partner. He's pretty much MIA so we are going to see an adoption lawyer on Friday to atleast see if DH can adopt him. He's his father in every sense of the word. It makes me bitter though. My husband is raising someone else's child, and the bio dad can't even pick up the phone or pay support. How can deadbeats have kids but nice people with their ducks in a row cannot.

It seems like we have had a lot of stress on our plate. Adoption lawyer, our fridge died today and had a burning smell, my DH got into a fender bender that almost drained our savings, closing costs on our new mortgage. We're taking hit after hit after we got our first SA back.

Let's hope that our luck starts changing. I'm trying so hard to stay positive.


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: oh canadian! It's got to turn around for you sooner or later. :hugs: do u do anything to help you feel better? Lately I've been looking up quotes to pick one to put in my journal to remind myself that life goes on and I can still look on the good things of life. :hugs:


----------



## raelynn

I can recommend a book I'm enjoying so far. It is about dealing with infertility and it is called "Every Drunken Cheerleader: Why not me?!" I thought the title was perfect.

It definitely helps to know we're not all alone in the infertility struggle. Unfortunately, it is still really tough to go through all this. So thankful for you ladies!

On a side note, do you ladies still take your temperatures and chart and use opks and such? I'm thinking about just taking a break from it all and stopping obsessing over every little thing since it doesn't really make much of a difference at this point. But, if there is a reason I should keep tracking, I certainly will.


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## deafgal01

I gave up temping when I went back to work cuz my sleep schedule is all over the place due to working 3rd shift and part time school. However I will start using opk this coming cycle so my dr can see the pattern with my ovulation cycles.


----------



## silverbell

Hey ladies.

Sorry to just barge in here, but I have a question to those ladies whose partners have undergone microTESE or TESE. My husband has asked and I thought some of you ladies might know.

How do they 'sew' up the incision? Is it actual stitches or glue of some sort?

Thanks to anybody who knows.


----------



## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> I tried to go to work the day after we found out and my boss sent me home. I tried to give her a head's up and couldn't get a handle on myself. It was truly awful. Like someone died. We had pictured out baby, had names, and everyone knew we were TTC. It was like that little bundle was ripped out of our arms.

That's precisely how we felt. We had to go home from work when we found out (mid-afternoon) - we both just said we felt unwell, which was true. I thought I was going to be sick. Then the following day we got into work but I kept crying every 10 minutes in the loo and sometimes I didn't make it to the loo and in the end I broke down to my massage therapist (who is also a counsellor) as I had an appointment that day. She said I should go home and so we did and we told work we wouldn't be in the next day either and we stated 'emotional shock' and didn't tell them anything else.

We needed those few days to just be together and let it all sink in and to cry. Because crying at home and together is much easier than crying at work and trying to hide it. That first week was the worst of my life.



raelynn said:


> Well ladies, we just received the call for the results of the 2nd SA. Same results as before, no sperm present. I guess I'm an official member of the dealing with azoospermia club :cry:
> 
> DH is currently very dismissive. This is hard for him to accept. We're going to make an appointment with the fertility specialist next. What should we expect to happen there? Just wondering what our next steps will be...hopefully we can move forward fairly quickly though it seems everything in dealing with infertility takes forever.

I am so sorry, raelynn. I had hoped it was a dodgy first test. I know how you feel right now and I am sending lots of :hugs: your way.

I would imagine they'll do blood tests on your DH and they may scan his groin if they feel there are any abnormalities or anything like that (they don't all do this though). They scanned my DH because they could feel a lump in one of his testicles (it was just a harmless cyst) and because his testicles are apparently smaller than average. If you can, try to push for genetic tests if there is no other reason why your DH might have azoo (ie. no past hernia surgery or injury to the testicles, no drug history etc). The 3 recommended genetic tests are Y-microdeletions, Cystic Fibrosis Carrier and Karyotype. I'm in the UK and took print-outs of various medical sites on the internet stating it was worth checking these and I had also found out in advance where the samples could be taken and where to send them. This meant my GP was happy to do them for DH and ultimately we found out the reason for DH's azoo, which for us helped enormously (though a lot of men unfortunately never find out).

They'll likely then start talking about some kind of surgery to see if they can retrieve any sperm.

I am in the UK though and it does seem to vary a lot abroad. (I'm not sure where you live)

I hope you get some answers soon :hugs:

---

That link is amazing, Tiger. Thank you so much for sharing. It lightens my heart to think that one day in the future couples like us won't have to go through all of this. It's amazing what they're doing.


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## deafgal01

silverbell said:


> Hey ladies.
> 
> Sorry to just barge in here, but I have a question to those ladies whose partners have undergone microTESE or TESE. My husband has asked and I thought some of you ladies might know.
> 
> How do they 'sew' up the incision? Is it actual stitches or glue of some sort?
> 
> Thanks to anybody who knows.



I don't know... I'm still new to all this so hopefully someone gets back to you with an answer.


----------



## Deb111

silverbell said:


> Hey ladies.
> 
> Sorry to just barge in here, but I have a question to those ladies whose partners have undergone microTESE or TESE. My husband has asked and I thought some of you ladies might know.
> 
> How do they 'sew' up the incision? Is it actual stitches or glue of some sort?
> 
> Thanks to anybody who knows.

The only incision that was visible SB was one at the front of the sack - what was internal I don't know but there must have been some in the testicle he operated on.

The stitches were just disolvable ones that were there for 2 - 3 weeks and then disappeared


----------



## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> Hey ladies.
> 
> Sorry to just barge in here, but I have a question to those ladies whose partners have undergone microTESE or TESE. My husband has asked and I thought some of you ladies might know.
> 
> How do they 'sew' up the incision? Is it actual stitches or glue of some sort?
> 
> Thanks to anybody who knows.

Hi silverbell my hubby had disolvable stitches when he had his Tese. The consultant saw him for a post op 5 days later and checked that all was healing as it should be


----------



## silverbell

Thank you so much, both! :hugs:

Deb - did your DH need to be seen by the Consultant again following the op to check on healing or was that it? Obviously we don't want to travel to London again so I'm hoping if he is supposed to get the wound checked that Mr R will agree that we can get this done by our GP.


----------



## Deb111

No SB - with the first SSR (TESE) on the NHS, they told him to book in with nurse at GP surgery (after a week I think it was) to check all was ok and to go sooner if we were concerned about weeping / infection etc, but all was fine.

No need to go back and see Mr R at all and we weren't told to even get it checked out by nurse or GP, but to contact him or GP if we were concerned. As long as you / hubby keep an eye on things and make sure there's no weeping, hotness or anything that looks nasty, he'll be fine :thumbup:


----------



## silverbell

Deb111 said:


> No SB - with the first SSR (TESE) on the NHS, they told him to book in with nurse at GP surgery after a week I think it was to check all was ok and to go sooner if we were concerned about weeping / infection etc, but all was fine.
> 
> No need to go back and see Mr R at all and we weren't told to even get it checked out by nurse or GP, but to contact him or GP if we were concerned. As long as you / hubby keep an eye on things and make sure there's no weeping, hotness or anything that looks nasty, he'll be fine :thumbup:

Thanks so much, Deb :hugs:

I hope all went well today? x


----------



## Deb111

All good thanks SB - apart from the small panic attack I had when I got to the clinic - weird :blush:. No cysts etc so fine to proceed. Next scan on Tuesday :thumbup:


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## deafgal01

Deb- fingers crossed the scan shows something next week. :thumbup: :dust: Grow baby!


----------



## Deb111

deafgal01 said:


> Deb- fingers crossed the scan shows something next week. :thumbup: :dust: Grow baby!

Deafgal - the scan wont show anything in particular with an FET (frozen embryo transfer) - it is simply to help them pinpoint when ovulation will be so that I know when to administer the HCG injection and they know when to time it to put the embryo back in :thumbup:


----------



## deafgal01

injection? :shock: You're brave... At least you will be getting your baby soon! :yipee: Not much longer to wait for that to happen.


----------



## wibble wobble

Got my fingers crossed for you deb xxx


----------



## Deb111

deafgal01 said:


> injection? :shock: You're brave... At least you will be getting your baby soon! :yipee: Not much longer to wait for that to happen.

Let's hope so! The injections really aren't bad - I barely felt most of them and you soon get to be a 'pro' :thumbup: I had to do 15 last cycle (14 dailies and the trigger one to mature the eggs), this time it's just the one - it's the progesterone pessaries I struggled with more and I have to do those this time too, but they don't freak me out as much anymore


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## deafgal01

:thumbup:That's good to know... Of course that means I'd have to get over my "passionate dislike for needles"... shots and blood draws I hate them... DH always has to go with me when I get my blood taken cuz I don't like the needles. As for the shots, I just try to visualize a happy thought/picture to distract myself from the task while they do the shot. Injections... Hmmm... I wonder what the dr will suggest that we need to do for me to get pregnant. Hey, I'll do it if it means I could be pregnant with a baby at some point soon.


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## Sar187

Deb-I completely understand where you are coming from with how hard the decision is. While on the one hand, you want to make sure you are ready, knowing that there is really no possible chance of it happening naturally also makes it so hard to decide to wait. When I did the back to back fresh cycles I was glad I did it that way and yet in some ways wished I had waited, It was tough emotionally, it got me my BFP though. Also remember that FET's are a lot less stressful than fresh cycles both physically and emotionally. Best of luck!

Becky-Ugh, it sounds like its one thing after another for you. Hoping things start turning around!

Silverbell-They used the dissolving stitches on DH. I would think most would use something of the sort to avoid having to remove stitches from that area. DH's incision on his sac was about 1/2" to an 1" and from what I know they just use a testicular biopsy gun to remove the tissue from the testicles. My DH was able to shower the day after surgery and everything and had no issue though he was definitely glad to have the pain meds. He also had a post op appt but it was almost 3 weeks after the op.

Deafgal-For my IVF cycles I had 3 injections a day for 2 weeks, they were simple though and they are tiny needles, the biggest is the trigger and even that one I didn't feel. 

AFM-Not much new, still feeling fine and just waiting for a look at everything on Monday. I just found out yesterday that Next Friday the company I work for is closing for good, so am a little stressed about how we are going to afford everything now but am trying to have faith that everything will work out.


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## Deb111

Deafgal - you are fairly likely to need IVF / ICSI unless your partner has a hormone problem which is fixable and that would mean giving yourself the injections, or your partner doing them for you, but I've read enough stories on here of people who are REAL needle-phobics and yet are real pro's at it within a day or 2 to know that you'd be fine if you had to do it :thumbup:

Thanks Sar :hugs: so sorry to hear about your job - hoping it all works out for you xx


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## Sar187

I also wanted to post this link that I thought you all would like. I posted it on my blog awhile ago, and I think it helps us all realize that we aren't alone in the things we are feeling and thinking.
https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/infertility-etiquette.html

I also wanted to share a poem that someone on another board posted. 



There are women who become mothers without effort, without thought, without patience or loss,and though they are good mothers and love their children,I know that I will be better.

I will be better not because of genetics or money or because I have read more books,but because I have struggled and toiled for this child.

I have longed and waited.I have cried and prayed.I have endured and planned over and over again.

Like most things in life, the people who truly have appreciation are those who have struggled to attain their dreams.I will notice everything about my child.

I will take time to watch my child sleep,explore,and discover.I will marvel at this miracle every day for the rest of my life.I will be happy when I wake in the middle of the night to the sound of my child, knowing that I can comfort, hold, and feed him and that I am not waking to take another temperature, pop another pill, take another shot or cry tears of a broken dream.

My dream will be crying for me.I count myself lucky in this sense; that God has given me this insight, this special vision with which I will look upon my child.Whether I parent a child I actually give birth to or a child that God leads me to, I will not be careless with my love.

I will be a better mother for all that I have endured. I am a better wife, a better aunt, a better daughter, neighbor, friend, and sister because I have known pain.I know disillusionment, as I have been betrayed by my own body. I have been tried by fire and hell that many never face, yet given time, I stood tall.

I have prevailed.I have succeeded.I have won.

So now, when others hurt around me, I do not run from their pain in order to save myself discomfort. I see it, mourn it, and join them in theirs.I listen.And even though I cannot make it better, I can make it less lonely.

I have learned the immense power of another hand holding tight to mine, of other eyes that moisten as they learn to accept the harsh truth when life is beyond hard.I have learned a compassion that only comes by walking in those shoes.

I have learned to appreciate life.

Yes, I will be a wonderful mother.-ANON


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## Deb111

Sar that's beautiful - thanks for sharing :flower:

Can't remember who asked recently about charting / OPK's etc - personally I stopped mine the day we had the azoo diagnosis comfirmed - it was just too painful. The first couple of months were really hard as I had got to know my body really well and knew exactly what the EWCM meant and the ovulation twinges and I thought that would never go away, but it did - pretty quickly too.

Some men with azoo are simply not producing ANY sperm, other however are producing some in MINUTE numbers, just not enough to make it into the ejaculate. I guess if that's the case, there could be 'some' hope, but then if you're like me, who has no sex life anymore because of the hormone problems and azoo, there REALLY is no point in knowing when you're about to ovulate is there :shrug:


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## Deb111

Sar187 said:


> I also wanted to post this link that I thought you all would like. I posted it on my blog awhile ago, and I think it helps us all realize that we aren't alone in the things we are feeling and thinking.
> https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/infertility-etiquette.html

Bawled my eyes out reading that Sar :cry: - thanks for posting it - very insightful xx


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## deafgal01

I teared up several times reading that... Thanks for sharing Sar- and lovely poem. I'm glad you shared with us.

Deb- I think it might be a hormone issue. Hopefully today DH's blood test shows better results but I'm not being too hopeful in case it's the same from last week- high prolactin and low testerone.


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## snd80

On the subject of OPKs and charting, after our diagnosis, I stopped all together. I was so pissed off, I threw away all my charts, prenatal vitamins and my thermometer. Then after about a month, I started temping again when we decided to go w/ donor. When I went to the specialist in Nov, he seen my temp chart and told me to stop. But I still use a little chart to keep up with my cycle days and still do the OPKs (for my sake) w/out the temping. It helps me keep track of everything. I can tell you exactally when I am to OV and to start; although I was late OV by 2 days this month. Could be b/c all the cold meds I've been on? IDK! That said, if you choose to do the OPKs, get the Clear Blue Digitals w/ the smily face. They are the only ones I use! The others I could never read right and at least with the smily face, I know for sure! They are expensive, but so worth it! WalMart.com has a 20 pack for like $40. 

AFM, I had a sudden realization Monday that I only have 5 months left to wait! :happydance: WOW! It seems like along time, but not really! So I have started the gym hard again and am soooo sore! LOL! But I know it will be worth it! I am excited and nervous all at the same time! I have managed to save up more than was stolen from us since Nov and only have about $1000 more to go, but I can do it no problem by May! Hubby says after we get the $1000 finished, he is going to start buying up diapers and a crib, but I think that may be jumping the gun; but at least he is thinking ahead, right?! Guess that means he is on board for sure! :haha:

Deb- I am really praying that this one works for you!!!! You so deserve it! You have been our rock and such a help to all of us on here! :hugs:

Sar- So sorry about your job! Just remember that everything happens for a reason! Hey! At least you got your BFP before your insurance ran out, right? =)

:hugs: to everyone else and hope you are all doing well!


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## Sar187

snd-Yay to only 5 months left! I am actually lucky with insurance because I am on DH's insurance policy. Thank god!


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## deafgal01

Sar- that's a relief that you're still on your hubby's insurance. Sucks to lose the job you had though. :hugs: I'll be praying that you find another job soon.


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## wibble wobble

Sorry to hear about your job sar that's rubbish timing

deafgal I learned the hard way not to be too hopeful for the best. When we got the first sa back with zero sperm my initial reaction was 'he has a blockage' then when that got ruled out I was it's ok he hasn't got any gene defects or major hormonal problems just a raised fsh. I went through the whole journey from the first sa to the tese being too hopeful. I pinned everything on the tese being successful.... it hit me really hard when that came back as zero too. I'd planned so much in my head run away with possible treatment dates.... in fact if everything had gone to my plan I'd have had my first icsi and would be pregnant already. I'm not saying you should have no hope but that you should always have the worse case scenario in your thoughts.

Snd wow only 5 months until you start that'll fly by in no time


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## raelynn

Thanks ladies for the temping/charting/opk insight. I don't really use OPKs since I have PCOS and I'd waste a whole lot of them trying to predict my crazy cycles. I chart for the same reason though. I never have any clue where I am in my cycle since they are never the same. But, I think I'll take a break since there really is little point in it all right now.

I called the fertility center today to try and make an appointment but they said they didn't take our insurance which I was entirely confused by since it is the same place hubby got both his SA's done and they took his insurance, no problem (we're both on his plan). But they called back once I was back at work and said to call them and they have more info on our insurance so maybe they figured it out :shrug: I thought making the appointment was supposed to be the easy part. Guess I will have to try again tomorrow.


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## Deb111

Raelynn -unfortunately you are likely to find that none of this is easy - we all seem to have had to chase referals and appts, chase results, been given some kind of incorrect info at some point (we were actually sent a letter telling us hubby's first SA was 'normal' and then got hit with the azoo at our next appt with no warning - apparently someone had just pressed the wrong button and sent the wrong letter! :growlmad:)

I really hope the clinic get it sorted for you

I don't know how it is with PCOS, but they weren;t that bothered about my cycle dates etc as once you start IVF / ICSI, they control your cycle anyway xx


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## CanadianMaple

Thank you for the support girls. It's been a rough 5 weeks, probably the worst I have gone through in my life.

raelynn- I have been a charter since 2005. I quit the day we found out about the azoo. It was too painful to continue. But, now that I am getting closer to when AF may be due, I'm finding it hard to not know what's happening. But, I don't care, I can't watch myself ovulate like I used to. My cycles were off since we started TTC and I was getting a ton of false OPKs (smiley ones even) so I don't even want to do that. I think that if we end up doing diui, I will start again. With IVF, they control my cycle.

I'm worrying a lot about how how I have noticed that DH's testicles are small. I never used to think a lot about it before we were about to do our first SA. I'm guessing it means non-obstructive, so it makes me feel less optimistic about us having positive results.


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## CanadianMaple

Deb, that's awful about being given the wrong results. That's almost a cruel joke. :(


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## Deb111

We went to our second FS appt thinking it was going to be the next round of tests for me - checking my tubes etc and I was very apprehensive about it and in the space of 2 mins were confronted with "so you know your husband isn't producing any sperm and your best options are probably adoption or donor sperm" - talk about a kick in the guts!!! I remember very little about that appt after that news, but I do remember collapsing in the corridor sobbing.

Anyway, I wouldn't get yourself too worried about the size of dh's testicles - I'm sure all men are different - wait and see what his specialist has to say. And remember, even if the results indicate testicular failure, there is no way of telling how much of them is affected without doing some sort of surgical procedure.

My hubby's results indicated testicular failure and we still got enough great quality sperm to fertilise my 8 eggs (with a small amount left ot freeze). Ok, I didn't get a :bfp:, but that's to do with my body not letting it implant or an abnormality with the eggs (which apparently is the case with a large percentage of any woman's eggs) - not his sperm - his sperm fertilised 3 eggs and produced 3 fabulous blastocysts! :thumbup:

Love the new photo snd :thumbup:


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## wibble wobble

Canadian Maple I never thought anything of hubby's small testicles until we got to the fertility clinic and the consultant measured them. I never asked why but from being on forums and talking to others whose partners have been diagnosed with NOA it seems to be a common characteristic in the men with it. There's still every chance they'll find sperm when they do a Tese. 1 friend got given a 5% chance they'd find sperm and she's almost 6 months pregnant now.


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## raelynn

Well we have a tentative appointment with the RE. They still have to sort out our insurance to be sure but we're scheduled for Jan 30 if they can figure it all out. I'm looking forward to a little down time and am going to try not to stress out for a little while (Easier said than done, I know). I'm sure Jan 30 will be here before we know it.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Good luck Rae! Hope that appointment works out and you're able to relax until then.


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## silverbell

wibble wobble said:


> Canadian Maple I never thought anything of hubby's small testicles until we got to the fertility clinic and the consultant measured them. I never asked why but from being on forums and talking to others whose partners have been diagnosed with NOA it seems to be a common characteristic in the men with it. There's still every chance they'll find sperm when they do a Tese. 1 friend got given a 5% chance they'd find sperm and she's almost 6 months pregnant now.

Canadian Maple - small testicles are a sign of testicular failure which is, of course, closely associated with NOA. Testicular failure means the testicles are not producing adequate amounts of Testosterone and/or sperm. It is quite normal to have a low Testosterone in combination with small testicles.

I've did quite a bit of research in the past and read some papers about NOA and there is not really any particular test or finding that can definitely, absolutely rule out any sperm production going on in the testicles. It doesn't matter what the testicles look like, what the blood results show, what the history is - the experts will not be able to say for sure if sperm is being produced or not until they undertake testicular surgery, such as TESE. So 2 different men could have the exact same test results and physical appearances, but 1 could end up with sperm found and 1 could end up with zero sperm found. If I remember rightly there is only 1 genetic test result that would stop the experts checking for sperm this way and that is a y-microdeletion called AZFa or AZFb. They usually won't check for sperm in this case because there has never been a reported successful sperm retrieval to date. Also I believe that the deletion can be passed down to a child. 

I hope this helps. Definitely don't give up hope yet.

---

Raelynn - that's really soon and will soon be here :hugs:


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## Sar187

I just wanted to give a little more information on the y-microdeletion. Silverbell is correct in that it could be passed down to the children, I know a woman on another board who's DH has this. They were also told that if they were to find sperm (very unlikely) Not only could it pass down to the male children but a female child could be born with male characteristics and a possible combination of both female and male parts. 

Raelynn-I hope everything works out with the appointment! It will be here before you know it. 

Silverbell-DH's TESE is getting closing, you are in my thoughts and prayers!


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## Deb111

Great news about the appt raelynn :thumbup:


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## MissAma

OMG Deb l am not even reading till the last post l have to cheer! W0ot for FET!!! Fingers uber crossed!!!

Silver - had both glue and absorbable stitches he says there is no difderence.


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## CanadianMaple

Pity party here tonight. Why do we need to go deep into debt to have a baby? It's not fair... What if we go in debt and still don't have a baby?


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## raelynn

I completely agree! Caring for a baby will be expensive enough! Now we have to add on all the costs to just get the chance of a baby. We're working on trying to switch our appointment to another fertility center which is not as convenient to get to as the first one but has better coverage by our insurance just because of this. I guess I should be thankful that hubby and I both have full time jobs to help support us through this.


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## deafgal01

That is my biggest concern...:hugs: hope you gets yours on the least amount of debt needed. I agree it shouldn't cost us money to try for a baby! It's not our fault that we need help for conceiving.


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## silverbell

I couldn't agree more about the financial aspect. It's horrible that us ladies and couples have to do all this through no fault of our own. It can really get quite depressing if you focus on it and the unfairness too much though.

---

Well, ladies, wish me luck. It's hubby's microTESE tomorrow morning. We'll know the results by Wednesday evening. We've prepared ourselves for a negative result after being given a 5% chance of success, but I still think it'll be incredibly upsetting if it's confirmed. Still, it will be such a relief to know for sure. 7 months is too long to have waited for that.

Will be sure to post on here on Wednesday to let you guys know the results.

Take care of yourselves.


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## deafgal01

Silver- good luck I am praying and hoping you get some good news from that!


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## KB38

Hi Silverbell, I thought I remembered your DH's m-TESE. Thinking of you, sweet, and sending lots of hugs your way :flower::hugs::flower:


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## raelynn

Good luck silverbell! Praying for some good news for you!


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## Bookworm

Deb good luck with this cycle - DH & I both have everything crossed for you, take good care of yourself. Are you planning on choking down the pomegranate juice? I can't even look at walnuts atm :haha:

Silverbell - thinking about you today too. I hope all goes well and DH has a good recovery and with a good result too! :hugs:

Sar - so sorry to hear about the job! I hope the stress isn't taking over too much, good luck with find something else. You have an app today right? Hope that goes well!!

SND - so pleased you've got a target and are doing so well on meeting it! Good luck with everything:flower:

Raelynn, Deafgal, Canadian Maple - I hope you're all bearing up:hugs: The stage you're at right now is awful; I struggled to cope I have to admit and the uncertainty for the future makes it so much worse - but try not to drive yourselves to crazy focusing on the worst case scenario... I tend to do that, I've lost so much sleep at every stage of this convincing myself that we're going to get the worst news. Of course it's good to educate yourselves and have an idea of whats coming, what tests there are, and to know what to ask the doctors! But I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of this is already decided, there's not very much you can do to change the outcome of the tests so if you can do it try not to drive yourself nuts during the wait.... though that is so much easier said than done and I'm such a hypocrite to give that advice because I've never worked out how to do it myself:dohh: even now....

With charting I did chart for a couple of months but luckily enough everything was pretty regular and 'normal' and I'd only started after more than a year of TTC when it was becoming very stressful and clear we had a problem, so I stopped before we even had a diagnosis because it was making (more) obsessed. I did OPK right up to the diagnosis though (ever hopeful) but stopped after that - my cycles were pretty regular and I o'ed everymonth with a stable luteal phase so I didn't really see the point in wasting the money once we knew natural conception wasn't possible. I've always kept a note of my cycles though just so I could plan once we were ready for ICSI.
But I think it depends on the couple, on the cause of the azoo and on the woman's cycles etc


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## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> I couldn't agree more about the financial aspect. It's horrible that us ladies and couples have to do all this through no fault of our own. It can really get quite depressing if you focus on it and the unfairness too much though.
> 
> ---
> 
> Well, ladies, wish me luck. It's hubby's microTESE tomorrow morning. We'll know the results by Wednesday evening. We've prepared ourselves for a negative result after being given a 5% chance of success, but I still think it'll be incredibly upsetting if it's confirmed. Still, it will be such a relief to know for sure. 7 months is too long to have waited for that.
> 
> Will be sure to post on here on Wednesday to let you guys know the results.
> 
> Take care of yourselves.

Will be thinking of you tomorrow, I really hope it goes well for you both. I know from personal experience that it destroys you inside if the result is negative,even if you know it's a possibility it isn't really a possibility... if you get what I mean. I really hope you don't have to go through it


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## snd80

Good luck SB! Praying for you girl!!!! :hugs:


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## Deb111

Stopping by with hugs SB - thinking of you both xx


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## deafgal01

Silver- I'll be thinking of you and your husband tomorrow. Hope things go well.

Book- thanks for your input. I was so upset the first two days after the first SA but have been cautiously neutral about the whole thing since. I still have my moments where I cry but I try to focus on the positives- like at least now we can find out what's wrong and how they can help us, etc. rather than continue the journey in the dark unaware. I know I'll have my good and bad days in dealing with this but I'll deal with it as it comes rather than prepare myself for the worst or the best (do the research and listen and check stuff out so that I know the WIDE range of what could possibly happen). DH doesn't want to deal with it unless we know more about it- aka don't deal with it until we cross that bridge (so for the time being we've not discussed sperm donor or adoption since finding out). He's open to adoption if we can't have babies, but I'd like to experience "being pregnant" myself so if I could get a sperm donor (which I hope it won't get to that point but if it does), I'd like to go that path- but DH needs more time to think on that. Like I said, we're not gonna address anything until we know more or have tried more things. It is frustrating at times because it's a wait (and sometimes waiting is the hardest part).

My Dr (from the appt Dec. 28th) played phone tag with my husband- Friday and today. Finally got some answers as to why the dr was trying to contact Zach regarding my u/s results. Everything on me (blood work and u/s) came back normal but she expressed concern about a "weird" shaped uterus (it looks like a heart shape). Details in my ttc journal- or you can just read my siggy if you don't need more details. Still waiting for more results, and I'm currently waiting to get a 3d scan scheduled (follow up on my uterus shape) so that we know what we're up against. She wants it asap- so that we have that info for our next appt with her on the 17th (so that gives me about 1 week to get that done). We still haven't heard anything about the second blood work on my DH yet but I guess we will sometime this week and he still has to do a second SA (which is scheduled for the 19th but I'm not too hopeful that it'll be anything different from the first sample).

How are you all doing?


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## Sar187

Silver-Wanted to wish you luck again for tomorrow morning! 

I will catch up with everyone else later, just wanted to drop in and update on our 1st ultrasound. We have 1 beautiful little baby! It is measuring 2 days behind at the moment but they are perfectly happy with that at this stage. We could see its little heart beating away and it brought tears to my eyes it was so beautiful. I am praying that all of you find your way to your little miracles. There are u/s pics posted on my blog if anyone wants to see them, the link is in my sig. We have another u/s a week from today and hopefully will be able to actually hear the heart beat then.


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## deafgal01

Sar- wow... beautiful scan of your baby. :hugs: CONGRATS again... I will definitely be tracking your progress as you experience pregnancy and BRING THIS BABY to full term!!!!!


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## silverbell

Thanks so much ladies. DH hasn't gone in yet, but he has a private room with internet, so here I am.

Just wanted to say that I'm very angry about it (as we'd previously been told otherwise), but we won't know the results of this microTESE until the end of next week. :nope:

So I won't be on here on Wednesday telling you all the news, as I had been told and had expected.

Anyway, I'm very nervous for DH - more than he is I think! - and I'm sure he'll be going down soon. Thanks for all your support.


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## deafgal01

Silver- that sucks that you gotta wait that long for the results!!!! :hugs:


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## silverbell

deafgal01 said:


> Silver- that sucks that you gotta wait that long for the results!!!! :hugs:

I know :nope: 

DH is out of surgery, safe and sound. It's amazing how guilty I'm feeling though. Daft, but true.

Wish it could have been me instead, bless him.


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## deafgal01

Silver- I agree. I feel guilty it's the men who have to undergo this much to give us a baby! :hugs: how is he feeling?


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## Sar187

Silverbell-Glad your DH came through surgery well. So sorry you aren't getting the results when expected. I am praying for good news from them though!


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## Deb111

Glad all has gone as planned SB but so sorry that they've messed you about with the results :growlmad:


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## tigerlily1975

I hope it all went well, Silverbell :hugs: I'm shaking my fist at the hospital for leaving it so late to tell you the results, seems quite cruel. Take it easy - both of you!

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Deb, I somehow managed to miss your update.. how are you doing?

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Sar, that totally sucks :hugs: How are you feeling? All good I hope.

C xx


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## raelynn

Silverbell - Glad your hubby came through everything ok. I completely agree with you. I was fine when the fertility issues were all on me and was happy to go through whatever they recommended. But, now that it is hubby too I feel really guilty for everything I ask him to do. I even felt guilty about having him call to get our appointment set today since I couldn't seem to catch the RE's office on my breaks. That is also crazy that they're making you wait so long for results - even worse they told you they'd be faster first.

As for me, I'm excited. We found an RE that is better covered by our insurance and they are located in the same hospital where I had my HSG and where my obgyn is located. We called to see if we could get an appointment as soon as the other place could get us in (Jan 30) and they scheduled us for this Friday! So happy things are moving a little faster for now. Only problem is, now I have to get all these forms filled out, get our medical records sent over, and pick up my HSG films all before Friday afternoon.


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## deafgal01

Rae- that's excellent news! Good luck getting all the paperwork and everything done before Friday. Keep us posted on what happens at your appointments.


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## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> Deb, I somehow managed to miss your update.. how are you doing?
> 
> C xx

So so I guess - struggling with my depression with a lot of other stuff going on too

Had scan today and all 'as expected' - looking at transfer in about 10 days and then it's just a waiting game

guess I should get a new ticker up xx


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## Deb111

Great news raelynn - you will get used to the paperwork :dohh:

Might be an idea to do what I wish I'd done with the first pile of paperwork and take a copy of it because you're bound to have to put all that info on another form somewhere along the line :winkwink:


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## raelynn

That's a great idea Deb! I was thinking I'm going to need to get a notebook started with all our info and what we've done so far and test results so I should just add in copies of the forms as well.


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## Deb111

Yep - I have a notebook and huge file!! I'm jealous of someone on here (I can't remember who) has a file with all the dividers in for different sections - I obviously need to update mine!!!! :haha::haha:

Mr Ramsay jokes about me being 'the keeper of the file' and commented on it when I walked in with a new, bigger one :dohh: He told me I'd have to let it go when I went into theatre for my EC - I told him my Mum would be trusted with it! :winkwink:

I think I got a bit over the top about it as the NHS lost every piece of paperwork going at one point - letters, referrals, blood test results so it was very important that I kept copies


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## deafgal01

Wonder if I should start doing that... Track my appts at various locations and what tests... My hubby has a different dr (well, a urologist) whereas I have a oby-gn plus I get my tests done at a different location (where I normally go for my labs and stuff) so that makes for 3 different places that I got to keep track of... :wacko: I really should start making a list of questions for my appt next week but not sure what exactly I should be asking about in terms of everything (since DH probably still needs to do his 2nd SA to confirm the results before we know the route to go down on). :shrug:

How do you ladies do it?


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## Deb111

I have a file for letters, test results, referals etc and then I have a notebook where I jot down questions as they enter my head ready for next appt and scribble the answers and notes from appts in there. I had intended to keep it well organised, but I have to say it's a scribbled mess as I'm always too tired after the travelling to appts to copy it all neatly and then I forget :dohh: - all the info is there though - not sure anyone but me could read half of it!


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## raelynn

I've been going through the forms for the RE and one is for genetic screening. For those of you whom have already gone through this, did you opt to get the genetic screening done? I'm not sure I really see the point since they can't guarantee one way or the other and if the baby does have a genetic disease, there is no cure. Hubby is feeling the same way.


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## Deb111

raelynn said:


> I've been going through the forms for the RE and one is for genetic screening. For those of you whom have already gone through this, did you opt to get the genetic screening done? I'm not sure I really see the point since they can't guarantee one way or the other and if the baby does have a genetic disease, there is no cure. Hubby is feeling the same way.

Unless the terminology is different in the US, I would say get it done. The genetic tests are what can give you an answer as to the azoo. I take it it means things like the karyotype, CF, y-chromasome microdeletion? If you and dh are both CF carriers, they will need to know. Certain other results will tell them if there is any point in doing sperm retrieval ops xx


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## raelynn

Thanks Deb. The way that it is worded for our forms mentions nothing about helping us find answers, only that it could identify potential risks for anything we might pass to children. But then it is very clear in saying even if we both have the traits there is no guarantee and there is also nothing they could do regardless so it seems kind of pointless based on the info they stated. But, if it helps determine causes for azoo I'll bring it up with hubby again.


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## Sar187

raelynn-That is great news! Good luck with your appointment Friday! I would call and ask about the genetic screening or leave that form for your appointment on Friday. If it is genetic screening to help determine azoo causes it would be worth it, however it may just be screening for your knowledge and in that case its probably not worth spending the money on.

Tiger-I am feeling fine so far other than tired, I was mildly queasy most of the day Sunday but thats it so far. Looking forward to getting another look at our baby on Monday :).


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## silverbell

Great news, raelynn :dance: The sooner the better in this horrible waiting game.

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts from those yesterday. :hugs:


Well, we're back home now safe and sound. DH OK so far - just a lot of 'pressure' feelings but no real pain as such. Hope it continues like that, bless him.


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## CanadianMaple

I'm glad he's not hurting. I wondering how they feel after it all. How long until results?

AF found me today. Somehow it made everything feel more real. I was charting for years and had no idea when to even expect AF for the first time in a long time. So not charting and getting AF makes me feel so detached from TTC, it makes me even question if I can go through with fertility treatments.


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## raelynn

I know how you feel! AF arrived for me yesterday and it was a total surprise for me as well since my cycles are so irregular. When I was charting I knew exactly where I was. This time, I was just bitter knowing that it doesn't even matter right now.


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## MissAma

Deb - sorry you're not 100% but maybe it's for the best, l got Dara on an IVF cycle l proclaimed the NMA -negative mental attitude- cycle as a reaction to all the forced positivity and since l was sure it was doomed.

SB - glad it's out of the way! Don't feel guilty why? If anything they should be mindful of how lucky they are we go through it all to carry their babies despite this ... Azoo set-back. What a bummer about no results till then. Why? I just left a message with our clinic to confirm we'll get results the same day as in all the other SSRs l couldn't bear waiting past Tuesday you are very brave l would have had a go at them.

So we are booked to sleep the night prior in a fancy hotel in the city this is at and Tuesday is the big day. Bricking it...


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I'm glad he's not hurting. I wondering how they feel after it all. How long until results?
> 
> AF found me today. Somehow it made everything feel more real. I was charting for years and had no idea when to even expect AF for the first time in a long time. So not charting and getting AF makes me feel so detached from TTC, it makes me even question if I can go through with fertility treatments.

It's horrible isn't it - just another reminder / kick in the teeth, but you WILL find the strength to go ahead with the fertility treatments hun,
because you know what the alternative is.

Don't underestimate the effect that this kind of diagnosis has on you mentally, physically and emotionally. It makes things feel impossible, but we've all been there and every time we get a knock back, we take a bit of time to wallow (and yes, we are allowed to! :winkwink:), get our heads round it and somehow find the strength to move onwards and upwards and you will too xx :hugs:


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## deafgal01

Miss Ama- good luck on Tuesday!


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## Deb111

Thanks MissAma :thumbup:

Ooohh good luck for Tuesday - will be keeping everything crossed for you xx


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## MoBaby

I just want to say that me and my DH have just done our ICSI with fresh sperm :) This should be encouraging for you girls. DH was diagnosed with Azospermia but sometimes has a few in the ejaculate so we could not see him getting a biopsy (he had 2 surgeries as a child which is why we are here in the 1st place). Our first IVF w/ICSI was a BFN in Nov- He had NO fresh sperm that day and a few frozen (he had a sample with 500,000 and some were swimming). We had 14 embies and none frozen then. 

We just received our fertilization report today for this cycle and we have 9 embies growning strong. All from his fresh sample! We will find out soon what day to return for ET. I want to encourage you girls on here that even though the dr says there are no sperm, it can happen. Our RE clinic told us to expect to have to freeze the eggies this time because he went on 2 occasions to leave a sample and they found no more than 10 sperm per sample. They froze it. The third time he had a few more and they froze that even though they did not think any of the samples would be viable. When we went yesterday, they called later on to tell us they did not have to use anything frozen!! So sometimes I think the drs get caught up on the medical side. Miracles can happen. We are praying for a BFP this time and I think the embies will be better because of the fresh sperm :) This has to be it for us and we are praying! Good luck to all the other girls! Azo is NOT the end. It does NOT mean it wont happen!

Deb: so excited your FET is soon!!! FX and praying for your BFP this time! :)


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## Sar187

Missama-Good luck Tuesday! Will be thinking of you!

Mo-Good luck with this cycle! Praying for your BFP!


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## raelynn

Mo - That is great news. Thanks for giving us hope!


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## Deb111

Fabulous news Mo - keeping everything crossed for you xx


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## raelynn

Well, we had our 1st appointment today. The RE said hubbys type of Azoospermia is most likely non-obstructive since he's had no infections and his PH level indicates it is not a congenital defect. So we're set to get our pre-screening for IVF and to determine the likelihood of sperm retrieval then off to the urologist. Our RE wants to do a fresh transfer rather than frozen so we'll most likely be using a donor back up so we don't waste an IVF cycle.

The good news is that the next IVF cycle at our fertility center is in May so that isn't that long at all. RE also said he's very positive about our chances given our age and the results of all my prior testing. Hopefully we're now on our way!


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## deafgal01

Rae- that's great news!


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## Deb111

Great news Raelynn xx


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## SunUp

So, I know this group started a long time ago, but I hope I can join! DH was just diagnosed and we go to the RE this week for our first consultation!


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## Deb111

Of course you can join SunUp - you're very welcome.

How are you both coping with the news? Do keep us posted on how you get on this week xx


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## deafgal01

Please do Sun... Some of us are new to it too so you're not alone. :hugs:

I'm still waiting for confirmation. DH goes in for a second SA on the 19th so I should know more after that point but I have my consultation appt on the 17th so will find out what they can do to help. :shrug:


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## CanadianMaple

Wow Raelynn, that was quick results! I'm so hopeful for you, May will be here before you know it!

SunUp- Welcome, while I'm always sad to hear that others are facing what we are, you're in good hands here. This group has been good for me. How are you holding up?

deafgal01- I hope you get your answers soon. The unknown is so hard.

I was just talking to DH about it all, and suddenly, out of nowhere, I felt my voice crack and I started crying. I felt so bad, I had been doing well, and I didn't want him to feel bad. We see our fertility clinic doctor(s) on Jan 25...11 days. I'm so scared of more bad news. I don't know if I can handle it. I'm starting to read about donor sperm and DH is nowhere ready to talk about it being a possibility. We're on the same page, but also really far apart. We're getting along well, this hasn't caused any issue in that sense. We're just newlyweds too, I was thinking about how unfair is it that our first year married has started off this way. I can only hope it makes us stronger.


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## deafgal01

Canadian- I only know that we'll need some help in getting pregnant- that much I do know. My results all came back normal so it looks like the sperm factor is the only thing we're trying to figure out. :shrug: You're right- the unknown is hard, but sometimes it's just easier to wait and see what happens than imagining all the things possible that could be wrong.

:hugs: 11 days isn't that far off... Hope the fs can help you and your hubby get a baby. It's not fair that you had to start off your first year with this kind of news. I'm glad I didn't have to face this in my first year of marriage (I've been married almost 5 years now). I hope this does make your marriage with your hubby stronger- having had to deal with this and go thru it together. :hugs: Like you, I'm not really talking about things with my hubby yet (he's the type that likes to wait until we cross that bridge to discuss) but doing some research into stuff before hand.

That reminds me. I need to get together some questions for my appointment on the 17th. I haven't written any down yet and I really ought to do that. :dohh:


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## Deb111

Deafgal - if you remind us all EXACTLY where you and your dh are at and what tests etc you've both had done, I'm sure we can help with the questions for your appointment xx


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## deafgal01

So far we've had- 2 blood tests (to check hormone levels) and 1 SA test done on my DH.

As for me... I've had my blood drawn (tested for glucose levels and stuff), and I've had 2 ultrasounds, 1 3d ultrasound scan, and 2 transvaginal (dr wanted more pictures than what she got from the first ultrasound). Based on that, my uterus is shaped like a heart- not sure how major the division is but it looks minor to me from what they showed. They printed off a picture for me to see- I might use it as my profile pic after the 17th appointment when I know more of where I stand on things.

That's pretty much all the testings we've had done so far. DH is scheduled to do his second SA on the 19th (which I'm expecting to be the same as the first SA). :shrug:


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## raelynn

Deafgal and Canadian - I'm right there with you with the difficulties with communicating with hubby. This diagnosis has completely shut my hubby down. He doesn't want to talk about it or acknowledge it. He obviously wishes it just wasn't happening and just wants to deal with each step as it comes. I'm really struggling with this because I'm a planner. I want to research the heck out of every possible situation and figure out what our course of action would be in each scenario. I am learning to be very patient to help get my hubby through this. Yesterday, after our appointment, he completely shut down. We went out for dinner and he would hardly even look at me. So...we went bowling :) He's an awesome bowler so it perked up his ego and took his mind off things and we were able to talk a bit afterwards.

We just have to be patient and very supportive wives. I now feel more like a wife than I have in our two years of marriage. He needs me for once and I just have to figure out how best I can support him during this whole mess. As terrible as this diagnosis is, it is forcing us to lean on each other for support and bringing us closer together in order to get through this.


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## snd80

Welcome Sun! :hugs: Things will get better with time, I promise! We have all been in your shoes before, and we are all much stronger now than we were in the beginning. We are all here for you anytime!!!!!

Rae-Hopefully May will be our month! :happydance: I am getting sooo flipping excited! We only like $600 more having all the money! Now I just need to get my big butt back in the gym regularly again! :blush: Hubby finally opened up to his close buddy about our situation. Maybe he is less ashamed now... IDK but it makes me feel better for him though! His buddy even offered his sperm. LOL! That was sweet of him.

Hope everyone else is doing ok today!


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## CanadianMaple

Raelynn- I could write the same post. I am a planner, I had medical background and understand so much of this. He wants to wait and talk to the doctor. He doesn't want to talk it out like I do yet. It's hard. I find that blogging is helping me out. Feel free to read it, I found it helpful to read other people's stories and to see how they processed the diagnosis. https://dealingwithazoospermia.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-first-entry-our-background.html

Snd80- How awesome that you have money saved. We had started saving and had to suddenly buy a fridge. I hope the wait goes quickly for you.

How do you all deal with "advice" people give? I post on a IVF forum and got a well-meaning post from someone who swears that acupuncture and/or working with a naturopath would "fix" DH. Her PM title was "low sperm count" so she obviously didn't understand it. I wanted to lash out, only because it makes me so sad/mad that what we are dealing with is so severe, it can't be fixed. I didn't, but I have no idea how to respond to these people, it automatically makes me feel defensive. I guess I still have a lot of healing to do.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Canadian- I don't know how we could deal with those advice yet... Maybe just ignore it and remember that every case is different- maybe it worked for her but it might not for you or me. :shrug:

I agree it's hard especially when we tend to be "planners" and the men tends to be spur of moment deal with it as it comes (kinda like baseball). :shrug: I don't know what I'm getting at but I'm sure you know what I mean. Best we can do is be supportive of our guys while they deal with it on their terms.

I find it ironic that my man's been cracking jokes left and right (related to dicks). :shrug: I guess that's his way of coping or something.


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## snd80

I will LEARN not to get on FB anymore! I just happen to sneak on there due to boardem at work, and low and behold the nastiest, biggest meth-head whore in this town (who has been in jail for manufacturing meth and had her first child taken away) posted all over that she is pg and due the day before my bday! And I am like "really God, really??!!?" I just don't get it sometimes! Why have we been "chosen" to go through this hell and others he is like "here you go! enjoy!" Blah! I'm going gun shopping when I get off of work to blow off some steam!


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## CanadianMaple

Ugh. It's not fair, is it? :(

I got an email from a friend a few minutes ago. She wanted me to know she's pregnant. She broke the news to me before everyone else, but it hurts. They already have a 1 year old. She 's a good friend and I appreciate her sensitivity, but it hurts. I hate that I am different now and need to be taken aside and have news broken to me first.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: That sucks Canadian. Same to you Snd... It's not fair we're given this lot in life to deal with. :nope:


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## WANBMUM

Hi ladies, Im really poor at posting, but I read alot and keep up to date with all your stories. We are pretty much going through all the same emotions, it sucks.

I've been feeling really emotional today, more so than any other days. We are finding out on friday, after a year and a half of tests, if they can operate on my OH or if there is no hope of him having biological children, so I am anxious awaiting this :(
I get home and make a coffee and then I get a phonecall from my friend to tell me she is expecting, she had a baby last year. (in her defence she doesnt know we are going through this)
Why does it always happen when you could really do without it? I sometimes feel that someone is playing really cruel tricks on me. 
So is life i guess.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Wan


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## CanadianMaple

:hugs:

There seem to be a lot of us going through a hard time this week. :(

I think I need to find something I can control. I may start going on the treadmill at night setting little goals. I'm not overweight, but I am about 10lbs heavier than my average, so maybe that will be something that will help me physically and emotionally.


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## Deb111

raelynn said:


> Deafgal and Canadian - I'm right there with you with the difficulties with communicating with hubby. This diagnosis has completely shut my hubby down. He doesn't want to talk about it or acknowledge it. He obviously wishes it just wasn't happening and just wants to deal with each step as it comes. I'm really struggling with this because I'm a planner. I want to research the heck out of every possible situation and figure out what our course of action would be in each scenario. I am learning to be very patient to help get my hubby through this. Yesterday, after our appointment, he completely shut down. We went out for dinner and he would hardly even look at me. So...we went bowling :) He's an awesome bowler so it perked up his ego and took his mind off things and we were able to talk a bit afterwards.
> 
> We just have to be patient and very supportive wives. I now feel more like a wife than I have in our two years of marriage. He needs me for once and I just have to figure out how best I can support him during this whole mess. As terrible as this diagnosis is, it is forcing us to lean on each other for support and bringing us closer together in order to get through this.

I think many of our men have been like this. I always need a back-up plan so that if something goes wrong, I know in my head where we can go next. Hubby is very much, 'why think about it until - or even if - it's necessary. It's not easy. The most I can sometimes get is that if something goes wrong, we will sit down and discuss whatever it may be is going round my head. Some things he has said he wont contemplate, others he says he is open to discussing.

Luckily he has always been pretty open about talking about the diagnosis etc 

Sometimes I have to do the 'can we just discuss is for 10 mins and then no more?' - sometimes that works??

I wish we had answers for you, but my advice is to keep researching all you want, and need to - and tell him as much or as little as you feel he is able to deal with right now. It will definitely help to have one of you who has a good basic understanding of this when you go to appointments xx


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> Ugh. It's not fair, is it? :(
> 
> I got an email from a friend a few minutes ago. She wanted me to know she's pregnant. She broke the news to me before everyone else, but it hurts. They already have a 1 year old. She 's a good friend and I appreciate her sensitivity, but it hurts. I hate that I am different now and need to be taken aside and have news broken to me first.

:hugs: I'm glad she was sensitive about it. You've hit the nail on the head when you say 'I hate that I'm different now' - it worries me that I will never be the person I was before all this :nope:


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## Deb111

snd80 said:


> I will LEARN not to get on FB anymore! I just happen to sneak on there due to boardem at work, and low and behold the nastiest, biggest meth-head whore in this town (who has been in jail for manufacturing meth and had her first child taken away) posted all over that she is pg and due the day before my bday! And I am like "really God, really??!!?" I just don't get it sometimes! Why have we been "chosen" to go through this hell and others he is like "here you go! enjoy!" Blah! I'm going gun shopping when I get off of work to blow off some steam!

:hugs: It's just not fair :nope:

I hope the FB announcement and the gun shopping aren't related?! :winkwink:


----------



## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> Hi ladies, Im really poor at posting, but I read alot and keep up to date with all your stories. We are pretty much going through all the same emotions, it sucks.
> 
> I've been feeling really emotional today, more so than any other days. We are finding out on friday, after a year and a half of tests, if they can operate on my OH or if there is no hope of him having biological children, so I am anxious awaiting this :(
> I get home and make a coffee and then I get a phonecall from my friend to tell me she is expecting, she had a baby last year. (in her defence she doesnt know we are going through this)
> Why does it always happen when you could really do without it? I sometimes feel that someone is playing really cruel tricks on me.
> So is life i guess.

Seems like there are lots of hugs needed in here today :hugs:

I've added your appointment to the front page hun and will be keeping everything crossed for you xx


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I think I need to find something I can control. .

Oohh this used to be my thinking exactly - when an ex of mine dumped me I got so fit and did brilliantly on my diet as it was all I felt I couod be in control of - I don't know why I can't have this attitude to losing weight for the IVF? :shrug:

It doesn't matter that my BMI is 31 ish as we are going privately but in the NHS it would have to be below 30 - I need to get my **** into gear!


----------



## Deb111

deafgal01 said:


> So far we've had- 2 blood tests (to check hormone levels) and 1 SA test done on my DH.
> 
> As for me... I've had my blood drawn (tested for glucose levels and stuff), and I've had 2 ultrasounds, 1 3d ultrasound scan, and 2 transvaginal (dr wanted more pictures than what she got from the first ultrasound). Based on that, my uterus is shaped like a heart- not sure how major the division is but it looks minor to me from what they showed. They printed off a picture for me to see- I might use it as my profile pic after the 17th appointment when I know more of where I stand on things.
> 
> That's pretty much all the testings we've had done so far. DH is scheduled to do his second SA on the 19th (which I'm expecting to be the same as the first SA). :shrug:

Right - off the top of my head ...
- make sure you get a note of dh's hormone results (should have checked FSH, LH, testoserone, prolactin)
- make sure they've done a thyroid test too
- they should do a physical examination to check for the vas deferens tube
- make sure you get tests for CF carrier, karyotype and y chromosome microdeletion done

My brain's gone a bit blank - it seems so long ago that we were at this stage and I'm afraid my brain forgets it all when we move onto the next stage, but I'm sure others will add their thought too xx


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> How do you all deal with "advice" people give? I post on a IVF forum and got a well-meaning post from someone who swears that acupuncture and/or working with a naturopath would "fix" DH. Her PM title was "low sperm count" so she obviously didn't understand it. I wanted to lash out, only because it makes me so sad/mad that what we are dealing with is so severe, it can't be fixed. I didn't, but I have no idea how to respond to these people, it automatically makes me feel defensive. I guess I still have a lot of healing to do.

This might give you some ideas hun. Someone else posted a link to it recently and it really hit home when I read it

https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/infertility-etiquette.html


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## WANBMUM

Aw deb, look at you replying to everyone. Your so good! 

How are you and hows your hubby?


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## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> Aw deb, look at you replying to everyone. Your so good!
> 
> How are you and hows your hubby?

I actually had a bit of free time tonight and I find it easier to reply with quotes than trying to remember everyone's news or scroll back! :dohh:

Honestly, we're not doing great. I'm battling against my depression again and hubby is pretty low right now due to the problems with finding work. Every time someone at one of the agencies sorts him out some long term, regular work, he gets let down for one reason or another :growlmad: It's getting beyond a joke!

I had so much to do today but I've achieved very little. Everything just feels like such an effort and such hard work. I slept til 11 and then had an hour on the sofa this afternoon - feels like I'm swimming against the tide in treacle :shrug:

I wish I could go back on my meds and I think they'd be happy for me to because there's only a very small risk of congenital heart defects on :baby: but I'd never forgive myself if that happened and it was down to me xx


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Aw Deb you need a hug too... I hope your husband finds proper work for the long term and soon. I know it's gotta be worrying about the money when they jerk him around like that promising work but coming up with nothing. :grr:


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## raelynn

Deb I'm sorry things are so rough on you right now. It has to be so rough dealing with this on top of other issues. I can't imagine. :hugs:


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## CanadianMaple

I'm sorry Deb. You have a lot on your plate too. I wish we could all have a virtual spa day together.


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## deafgal01

I love that idea- Canadian... virtual spa day together... :thumbup:


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## WANBMUM

Deb111 said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Aw deb, look at you replying to everyone. Your so good!
> 
> How are you and hows your hubby?
> 
> I actually had a bit of free time tonight and I find it easier to reply with quotes than trying to remember everyone's news or scroll back! :dohh:
> 
> Honestly, we're not doing great. I'm battling against my depression again and hubby is pretty low right now due to the problems with finding work. Every time someone at one of the agencies sorts him out some long term, regular work, he gets let down for one reason or another :growlmad: It's getting beyond a joke!
> 
> I had so much to do today but I've achieved very little. Everything just feels like such an effort and such hard work. I slept til 11 and then had an hour on the sofa this afternoon - feels like I'm swimming against the tide in treacle :shrug:
> 
> I wish I could go back on my meds and I think they'd be happy for me to because there's only a very small risk of congenital heart defects on :baby: but I'd never forgive myself if that happened and it was down to me xxClick to expand...

Aw Debs you poor thing, sending you :hugs:. It sounds like you have lots of things getting you down, not just this TTC journey, which is tough enough. It sounds like you need to have a good 'mind' relax. 
When I get like you, I find what helps, is doing things you really like to do, that makes you feel good and relaxed. For the last couple of weeks, Ive been feeling really anxious and I just needed to forget about the day to day things and chill, reading for one, is a good way of switching off from it all. Going out for walks. If you have a particular hobby you like. I like glass painting, when I am feeling anxious, I always go back to this and it does the trick.
I hope your OH gets his work situation sorted. It is very disheartening for him when people let him down. 
Sending you :hugs:


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## silverbell

WANBMUM - Good to see you back here and wishing you lots of luck for Friday :hugs:

Massive hugs to everybody :hugs:

Deb, I'm so sorry :nope: Is it worth speaking to your GP about the actual risk of the congential heart defects? Or if there's an antidepressant that doesn't have any such risks? Or have you been there, done that? It sounds like you could do with being on it. There are small risks associated with the ulcerative colitis meds I'm on (both with pregnancy and breast-feeding), but if I don't stay on them I will end up in hospital so my Gastro said it's much healthier if I stay on them and if I'm healthy then baby will be healthy. I know it's not the same thinig, but I'm sure potential baby will be happier if you're happier if you see what I mean? I don't know - such a difficult decision. :hugs:


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## KB38

Hi, I am so sorry to hear that so many of you are having such an awful time right now. Can I add my story to the mix as I really need to vent today and please, please give me your honest views...

My best friend, who is the only person other than you guys who knows that DH and I are having issues TTC (and only that much because I didn't want to betray DH's trust), had her baby this morning. It was always going to be a hard day for me because the day she announced her pregnancy was the day that we got DH's diagnosis so, whilst I am very happy for her, it is hard for me to separate the two (irrational I know). 

Anyway, about 15 years ago, we were talking about what we would name our babies one day and I told her that I loved a certain name because the first name was my dad's grandmother's name and the middle name was my mother's grandmother's name. She told me that she didn't like that name because it sounded too old fashioned. A few months ago I told her that I still loved the name and that I had been imagining myself with a girl by that name when I was feeling down about not having a baby. She laughed and told me again that it was too old fashioned for her and that she preferred other names.

She told me a few weeks ago that she had picked a name but wouldn't tell me what it was. At the time DH assured me that she wouldn't have taken both of my names. Anyway, guess what, she has! I got an email from her at work today and burst into tears at my desk which was so embarrassing. 

I don't know why as I know I can still have the same name if I have a girl and I can't believe that I've reacted so strongly (I never would have thought I would) but I feel like she's taken a little piece of my hope away too. It's not so much the name part but I can't believe she didn't just tell me to my face as, at least if she'd said she liked it, I could have got used to the idea instead of just sending a group email to all of our friends. 

I am not sure if I'm being irrational and unfair because of my own issues or if it is really a nasty thing to do...

And now, because DH is friends with her husband, he really wants to visit them tomorrow after work. I'm not too sure I can cope. This is the first time since DH's diagnosis that I have felt like it is all so unfair.


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## silverbell

For the love of God, some people need shaking and a good slap around the face :growlmad: I'm so angry for you, KB, and I don't think you're over-reacting at all.

What a horrible thing to do. Like you say, at least if she'd said the name had been growing on her or she quite liked it, then maybe it wouldn't have been as much of a shock.

Also - it's just generally a low thing to do. There are millions of names in the world - why not pick one of them?

My sister always told me she wanted a boy of a certain name one day and there's no way I'd 'steal' that name ahead of her, now that I know. You just don't!

I can't believe it's the exact 2 names. :nope: It's just really low.

I'm so sorry, KB. :hugs:

EDIT: Forgot to say ... there is NO WAY I would go visit. Not just because of the name thing - just generally. It seems to affect us ladies more than men when we see babies.


----------



## deafgal01

KB- I wouldn't go visit her so soon... Just because this whole TTC journey is harder on you and seeing the baby before you're ready will make you more angry and the whole journey harder still.

It's not right that she "stole" the name you loved. :grr: She should have at least given you some warning. Maybe she thought you would never be able to have a girl so she thought she was doing you a favor by naming her own baby with the name you love but still it's WRONG of her to do that especially without warning. :ninja: I want to go kick her ass and slap some sense into her head.


----------



## snd80

KB- There is no way in _hell_ I would go see her! Ever again!!! And I would be pissed at DH if he did! My hubby stopped seeing his BF after I didn't want anything to do with my BF (the guy's wife) when she found out she was pg. It was just too hard for me, especially when it was the beginning of our diagnosis. And he honored my wishes. Still does. Sorry if I sound too harsh, but that sent me into a rage for you!!! How dare she!!!! You are a better person than I am, cause when I seen her it would be her a$$! Gosh this LTTC has turned me into a bitter person lately!

See, that is one reason I never tell ppl the names we have picked out... when I was younger and in high school, me and my then BF would talk about how if we ever had a baby what our names would be. Not too long after that she got pg and when she found out it was a boy, low and behold she wanted to name it "my name"; that's ok now cause I don't even like the name anymore. Wasn't long after that we stopped being friends (due to other reasons). But since then I have never told anyone the names we have picked out (other than my family, well those I know won't get pg-LOL!)

Deb- Sorry for being so inconsiderate! Some of us (me=guilty!) get caught up in our own crap and never think much to ask how you are doing?! I wouldn't think it would hurt to take something for nerves up until you do get pg? It would be worth checking into... Massive :hugs: lady! We all love ya!!!! 

AFM- went gun shopping Sat after work and bought a few.... which we needed some anyways since all ours was stolen. Did some shooting yesterday to let some steam off! Felt good!!!!! Big stress reliever! I know I sound like a big ole' redneck! :haha:

Chins up girls! It will be our turn soon! :hugs:


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## raelynn

KB - That is such a terrible thing to do. I could understand if maybe she started liking it and used one of the names but both together just shows she had absolutely no regard for your feelings and stole the name. I definitely wouldn't go see her so soon, if at all. Seeing babies when we're still struggling in our journey is hard enough but add on the extra tension from what she did with the name and it just spells an emotional disaster. I am so very sorry for what she did to you! Especially since these names had special meaning to you.

As for me, hubby and I had our blood drawn today to test for infectious diseases and chromosome abnormalities for him. Hubby had 5 vials drawn and got sick at the end. Poor thing came out white as a ghost. I so wish it wasn't him with all the issues and me instead. I feel so bad for him going through this and it is only just the beginning.


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## WANBMUM

KB - I feel so hurt for you. Whatever it is, this is the one thing I will not be able to handle and I worry that someone I know will name their baby the names we have picked out - we havent told anybody, but it can happen and I dread it :(
Im sorry but your friend is a mean cow! Does your OH know how you feel? What does he think? 
What I would do, being me, because I wouldnt want people to know how I feel as I think I would be the one that looks petty (I'm not saying you will but this is just me talking about myself and how I would worry) - I would make my excuses about not being able to go to the hospital - what about if you made up that you had a stomach bug? you couldnt possibly go to the hospital! :) Then I would see how I am feeling and decide if you really want her in your life or if you want to phase her out. (thas what I would do)
I would ask her straight out, why? She will probably deny knowing. be prepared. 
I feel so bad for you, It gives me a pain in my belly thinking someone could do this knowingly.
Let us know what you decide to do. 

Here counting down the days until Friday. dum de dum dum dum


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## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone.

I just wanted to stop by and say hi and send you all :hugs: but to also add that I might be MIA for a bit. We've had some heart-breaking news, my father has passed away very suddenly and well, we're all in shock really. I lost my mum just under three years ago, it was a long, painful battle against Cancer and in a way, we were prepared, but this has just completely knocked us for six. 

As if we don't all have enough to deal with the constant ache for a baby we may never have, we just keep getting hit with one thing after another.

My brother and I have a lot to deal with right now, but I'll try and stop by when I can.

Take care and much love to all,

C xx


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## deafgal01

:hugs: My thoughts and prayers to your family, Tiger. It's hard enough losing a parent. :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Tigerlilly - I am so sorry to hear this. You poor poor thing. I can't imagine what you must be going through. I hope your ok, as ok as you possibly could be. 
Do let us know how you are doing. 
Sending you hugs x


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## Deb111

KB - I agree with what the others have said

Snd - don't be silly!!! but thanks for the thought :hugs:

So update ... went for a scan today and the Dr thinks I've already ovulated and missed it as he said I have a collapsed follicle :nope: He also did an opk and it was negative. He said if it was their clinic making the decision, they would abandon it because they have to put the blastocyst back 5 days after ovulation and without knowing when ovulation was, they don't know when 5 days later will be :shrug:

So then the Lister phoned and said they don't know why he made that judgement - they haven't seen the actual scans, but said the measurements etc are right on track.

So I have to do an opk tonight and in the morning and if it's + phone them and tell them, otherwise, I have a provisional scan booked down in London for 2.15pm tomorrow.

Why is it so bloody hard?!?! I can't get hold of the head or deputy head at work to talk to them about 'possibly' needing time off tomorrow - I'm sure they will be ok about it, but I hate dropping them in it at such short notice.
I feel like I'm messing them about not being able to actually say yet whether I need the time off or not :shrug:

And wht if we spend a furtune driving down there and paying for another scan and it is too late?? Wondering if I should just accept what MFS said and abandon the cycle!?


----------



## deafgal01

Deb :hugs: That sounds so confusing and complicated. :wacko: I wonder who you can believe in this case... I hope it is still a positive and that you haven't ovulated yet.


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## Deb111

Tiger - so, so sorry to read this hun :hugs: It really does seem that 2012 has started off horribly for an awful lot of people :nope:

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers xx


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## snd80

Tiger- My heart goes out to you hon! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: Can't hug you enough!!!! 

Deb- Jeez! How cruel! Who to believe?! I would hate for you to waste that one precious eggie of yours!!! You've waited this long... one more month (just to be safe and sure) wouldn't hurt... Prayers are with you in whatever you guys decide!!! :flower:


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## Deb111

Thanks snd - now I've calmed down about it all, I think I'm leaning to that way of thinking ... what if we had it transferred because the Lister said it was still ok and it didn't work? We'd always wonder if it had been put back at the wring time :shrug:

I think what's confusing me is The Lister's reaction. If they had just agreed that we'd missed ovulation, then ok, but why are they questioning it? 

I am kicking myself that I didn't research it more (but we've got so much other horrible stuff going on right now, my head's all over the place :wacko:)
- if I had realised the timing of LH surge was so crucial I'd have done opk's myself whether the clinic told me to or not. I thought it was just the fact that they needed to know that I'd actually ovulated, or that the follicle was of a decent enough size to do the trigger shot and force ovulation. 

It never occured to me that we'd actually miss it :nope: but when you think about it, I thought the day 14 scan was bang on time as my cycles are pretty regular and day 14 would be ovulation day, when in fact, surely they should have been scanning me sat / sun (day 12 / 13) which would have co-indcided with the suspected LH surge and allowed them to trigger ovulation.

I'm damn sure I'll be doing opk's next month if we have to abandon this cycle


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## snd80

No doubt! I would start testing the day after AF stops! LOL!


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## WANBMUM

Sorry to hear this Deb :( 
Is there any possibility you might not have ov yet? 
It's catch 22 for you. 
Hopefully you will get the answers/outcome tomorrow that is straight forward.


----------



## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> Sorry to hear this Deb :(
> Is there any possibility you might not have ov yet?
> It's catch 22 for you.
> Hopefully you will get the answers/outcome tomorrow that is straight forward.

In theory, yes - I have had slightly longer cycles when I've been stressed - and I have been very stresses lately, but the Dr scanning me said there was a collapsed follicle - so what else could it mean?

Don't think I said - when he got me to do the opk - it was negative, but there was a faint second line - now I know that technically that's a negative, but surely it is detecting some LH and therefore either just before or just after the surge?


----------



## deafgal01

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a collapsed follicle a sign of the eggs already having been released? So that line might have been catching the end of the surge? Therefore it would make sense why they think they missed it. Best to start anew next month with the opk and monitor it?


----------



## Deb111

deafgal01 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a collapsed follicle a sign of the eggs already having been released? So that line might have been catching the end of the surge? Therefore it would make sense why they think they missed it. Best to start anew next month with the opk and monitor it?

Yes that's what I'm thinking - typed that in wrong order - what I meant is second faint line was picking up something either before or after LH surge which could mean I haven't ovulated, but the dr said the follicle 'looks like' it's collapsed - so that can only mean one thing :nope:


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: I'm sorry they missed it Deb- but it's better to have done it when they didn't have missed it. :dohh: How did they miss it anyways? :shrug:


----------



## Deb111

who knows?! :shrug: day 14 seems too late for a scan now I understand more, but I'd have thought they'd have known what they were doing

Anyway just done opk and it's neg (asda only had the clearblue digi one and I have to say; I love it!)


----------



## Deb111

MissAma - thinking of you and dh today and hoping all goes really well :hugs: xx


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## raelynn

Deb - I'm with the others. Every embryo is precious in this situation and you wouldn't want to always wonder if it didn't happen because it was passed ovulation. I think in this case, waiting to be sure of the best possible situation would be the better option.

Tiger - I'm so sorry! We all know the stress of this is more than enough. My heart goes out to you! :hugs::hugs2:


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## MissAma

Tiger - condolences...

Deb - what the hell??? Incompetents...

AFM we're in the waiting room of the clinic and Dara is being pampered by the personnel and the waiting patients alike while daddy is being foraged for hopefully half a baby and mommy is dieing...


----------



## KB38

Tiger, I am so very sorry to hear your news. Life can be so cruel sometimes. Thinking of you xxx

Deb, I agree with what the others have said. 

AFM, thank you all so very much for your thoughts about the name issue. This being such an emotional time generally for me, I find it difficult to know whether I am overreacting to things sometimes. 

DH and I spoke at length about it last night and DH felt that, as awful as it would be for me (and him - as he is quite affected by it too), we should still go and visit today as we had planned. He said that it was ultimately my call and agrees with me that I am perfectly entitled to distance myself from her forever but, as we have a lot of mutual friends (most of whom don't know we are TTC let alone about the name), he didn't want me to cut myself off from everyone by appearing to behave irrationally. 

So I went, saw but didn't hold the baby and came back home. TBH the build up was worse than actually doing it. I dreaded it all day but now that I've been I know that I've done the "right thing" and given her nothing to complain about me for and, when I am a little bit less emotional about it, I can make a decision about what to do. It will never, ever be the same for me and I am pretty sure that I won't ever be spending any time with her alone but because of our mutual friends, I will see her around. 

On the positive side, I have learnt a very valuable lesson about what she is really like now....


----------



## MissAma

KB - sounds tough....

The Viking is out of surgery and is recuperating from anesthesia in the clinic and Dara too fell asleep in her pram when she ensured he was still here:) they got 6 samples on each side but won't tell us if there is actual viable sperm till tomorrow because they want to freeze and thaw first. It will be hell waiting but such is the life of azoospermics -and SB how much longer for you guys? You're so patient!-


----------



## raelynn

MissAma - Glad everything went well. Hoping for some excellent news for you tomorrow!


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## Deb111

Well done on the visit KB :thumbup:

Glad all has gone well and hoping for great news tomorow MissAma

AFM, just waiting for a response from the clinic to my email about abandoning the cycle :nope:


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## silverbell

I'm so glad all went well, MissAma. Yep, still waiting. :coffee: Likely going to be next week now, apparently. I can't believe how long we are having to wait. It really does make me wish we'd just done it all privately right at the beginning. We're just SICK of waiting, waiting and waiting since his diagnosis. 

KB - I'm glad you feel you did the right thing and I completely get what you mean about having realised what sort of a person she is. :hugs:

Deb - :nope: I don't even know what to say. OMG I'm livid for you. I'd have to agree that that embryo is so very precious that it would be best to be absolutely sure prior to transfer or, like you say, you'll always wonder. Unbelievable. I'm so, so sorry, Deb :hugs:

Tiger - I am sorry to read such sad and upsetting news. You take all the time you need and please accept my condolences. :hugs:


----------



## wibble wobble

KB38 said:


> Hi, I am so sorry to hear that so many of you are having such an awful time right now. Can I add my story to the mix as I really need to vent today and please, please give me your honest views...
> 
> My best friend, who is the only person other than you guys who knows that DH and I are having issues TTC (and only that much because I didn't want to betray DH's trust), had her baby this morning. It was always going to be a hard day for me because the day she announced her pregnancy was the day that we got DH's diagnosis so, whilst I am very happy for her, it is hard for me to separate the two (irrational I know).
> 
> Anyway, about 15 years ago, we were talking about what we would name our babies one day and I told her that I loved a certain name because the first name was my dad's grandmother's name and the middle name was my mother's grandmother's name. She told me that she didn't like that name because it sounded too old fashioned. A few months ago I told her that I still loved the name and that I had been imagining myself with a girl by that name when I was feeling down about not having a baby. She laughed and told me again that it was too old fashioned for her and that she preferred other names.
> 
> She told me a few weeks ago that she had picked a name but wouldn't tell me what it was. At the time DH assured me that she wouldn't have taken both of my names. Anyway, guess what, she has! I got an email from her at work today and burst into tears at my desk which was so embarrassing.
> 
> I don't know why as I know I can still have the same name if I have a girl and I can't believe that I've reacted so strongly (I never would have thought I would) but I feel like she's taken a little piece of my hope away too. It's not so much the name part but I can't believe she didn't just tell me to my face as, at least if she'd said she liked it, I could have got used to the idea instead of just sending a group email to all of our friends.
> 
> I am not sure if I'm being irrational and unfair because of my own issues or if it is really a nasty thing to do...
> 
> And now, because DH is friends with her husband, he really wants to visit them tomorrow after work. I'm not too sure I can cope. This is the first time since DH's diagnosis that I have felt like it is all so unfair.

I think you every right to be annoyed at your friend for stealing your name choice. She should have done the decent thing and told you she was thinking of using the name you'd chosen,to like you say given you the chance to get used to the idea... the least she could have done was told you face to face and not lied about it being too old fashioned to think about!!!


----------



## wibble wobble

Deb111 said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Aw deb, look at you replying to everyone. Your so good!
> 
> How are you and hows your hubby?
> 
> I actually had a bit of free time tonight and I find it easier to reply with quotes than trying to remember everyone's news or scroll back! :dohh:
> 
> Honestly, we're not doing great. I'm battling against my depression again and hubby is pretty low right now due to the problems with finding work. Every time someone at one of the agencies sorts him out some long term, regular work, he gets let down for one reason or another :growlmad: It's getting beyond a joke!
> 
> I had so much to do today but I've achieved very little. Everything just feels like such an effort and such hard work. I slept til 11 and then had an hour on the sofa this afternoon - feels like I'm swimming against the tide in treacle :shrug:
> 
> I wish I could go back on my meds and I think they'd be happy for me to because there's only a very small risk of congenital heart defects on :baby: but I'd never forgive myself if that happened and it was down to me xxClick to expand...

Hope your feeling better soon and that hubby finds some perminant work


----------



## wibble wobble

tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I just wanted to stop by and say hi and send you all :hugs: but to also add that I might be MIA for a bit. We've had some heart-breaking news, my father has passed away very suddenly and well, we're all in shock really. I lost my mum just under three years ago, it was a long, painful battle against Cancer and in a way, we were prepared, but this has just completely knocked us for six.
> 
> As if we don't all have enough to deal with the constant ache for a baby we may never have, we just keep getting hit with one thing after another.
> 
> My brother and I have a lot to deal with right now, but I'll try and stop by when I can.
> 
> Take care and much love to all,
> 
> C xx

So sorry to hear of the passing of your father :hugs: take care xx


----------



## snd80

Deb- If you decide to wait for the next cycle, do try the digital Clear Blue smiley faced opks! They are sooo much better than trying to read "the lines"...just some food for thought! :blush:

Yay MissAma!!!! Hope everything goes ok! :hugs:

KB- Glad you decided to be the bigger person and visit after all. You are still a better person than I am cause I couldn't have done it!... We live and learn, don't we?


----------



## Deb111

Thanks snd - It's the clearblue digi ones I got yesterday and yes, they're fab! :thumbup:


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## WANBMUM

Hi girls! I'm having a really tough day today, i can't stop crying tonight :(
I know it's just the build up for the results on Friday! 
One friend had his baby today AND I got a call from a really good friend of mine to say she's expecting twins! I am so happy for her but I'm an emotional wreck. 
I feel like it's all a hoax, someone is playing tricks on me.
That's 3 pregnancies and 2 births this week! While we await to be more than likely told we(my oh) can't have children biologically!
Sorry for being a miserable old cow.
This journey is turning me into a bitter old woman :( 
It sucks!


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Sucks to hear all these happy news and you're left in this hole. :hugs:

I dread Thursday this week.


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## raelynn

deafgal - We'll be thinking of you and sending positive vibes on Thursday


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## deafgal01

If anything it will be good to have some confirmed answers. Just a question of where we go from here right?

My appt was fine- no worries on my end so my results all normal and my heart shaped uterus is not a concern. Just need to track ovulation with opk over next few months while we explore what's up with dh. :shrug: in other terms I am all set for getting pregnant.


----------



## MJ73

Hi there girls :flower:,
Sorry I havent posted for a while, I have been following, just not posting. There has been so much going on here. I won't do personals this time as there is too much to catch up on. Just wanted to say that I am thinking of all who are struggling (who isn't) & hoping for those who are currently cycling or about to start cycling...
AFM, well we were both pretty devastated after our last cycle was a complete bust. I just felt completely hopeless & that there was no use even trying again as it wouldn't work anyway. So, as I've done through this entire process I just let myself feel what I was feeling. I figure that there is no use running from these feelings; my life experience has taught me that they will catch up to me eventually anyway. 
Then came the anger. *Has anyone else struggled with this extreme anger?* I just felt so angry at God, at the world, at everyone that can fall pregnant at the drop of a hat. (It didn't help that we found out that my 14, that's right *14 year old *niece is pregnant & intends to raise the child). What is God/the universe thinking that a child can get pregnant while all of us have to suffer & fork out thousands of $ to just have the chance to _try_... I gave myself a good talking to about the anger as I realised that I don't want to become one of those bitter old childless women. I had to let some of the anger go, it was eating me up inside. 
I have cried so much in the 16 months since our azoos diagnosis. More than I have ever cried all my life. At times the grief for something we've never known is unbearable. I'm a bit tired of crying. Like everyone, we're running out of money. I estimate that we've already spent close to $25,000 AU trying to get a baby. We will do one more stimulated round & any embies (assuming we're lucky) that come from that & after that we're out. We've already gone into debt for this & my darling sister has offered us $12,000 towards our next round which we will pay off when we can. After that I think it will be time to move on & start accepting that we will be childless. Sperm donor is too hard in Aus (we have to have a 'known donor'), adoption is extremely rare & inter-country adoption is also a very gruelling & expensive option. 
The last couple of weeks DH & I seem to have settled into a sort of contentedness... We are holding onto what we do have, instead of focusing on the one (life consuming) thing we don't have. I even went out & bought a (cheap) coffee machine (all our spare $ have been going into IVF). I decided that I just need to focus on being 'us' again.
Sorry to _dump_. This forum is such a great resource. Azoos is so different from any other type of infertility in that we have no chance of falling pregnant naturally. I feel so thankful for all you girls, for sharing your stories. You give me hope, you keep me going. So, thankyou:hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: mj it is so hard. I have yet to reach that extreme anger stage but I definitely relate on the crying part. :hugs: it sucks to find out a teen is pregnant while you gotta spend money trying to conceive! It's not fair.


----------



## silverbell

MJ73 said:


> Then came the anger. *Has anyone else struggled with this extreme anger?* I just felt so angry at God, at the world, at everyone that can fall pregnant at the drop of a hat.

Yep, I hear ya. Very, very angry sometimes. Incredibly sad most of the time, but definitely angry at other times. It seems soooo unfair. :nope:



WANBMUM said:


> Hi girls! I'm having a really tough day today, i can't stop crying tonight :(
> I know it's just the build up for the results on Friday!

Thinking of you for Friday, WANBMUM :hugs: 



deafgal01 said:


> I dread Thursday this week.

I hope Thursday goes OK, deafgal :hugs:


----------



## MissAma

They called. They found nothing.


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: missAma


----------



## silverbell

MissAma said:


> They called. They found nothing.

MissAma, I don't know what to say. I don't think there's anything I _can_ say.

Thinking of you and your husband :hugs:


----------



## KB38

WANBMUM said:


> This journey is turning me into a bitter old woman :(
> It sucks!

:hugs::hugs::hugs: sorry to hear. I know what you mean about how this journey changes you. I was just thinking the other day that I don't even recognise myself anymore :dohh:


----------



## KB38

Miss Ama, there are no words I know so I'm sending lots of love instead


----------



## KB38

MJ73 said:


> Hi there girls :flower:,
> Sperm donor is too hard in Aus (we have to have a 'known donor')

MJ, not sure which State you're in but have you spoken to any other clinics? 

We don't have a known donor and so we will be using an "unknown" donor. We have all the paperwork to get going if we decide to go that way...


----------



## wibble wobble

MissAma said:


> They called. They found nothing.



so sorry to hear this :hugs::hugs: life can be soo cruel


----------



## snd80

Oh MissAma! :hugs: My heart broke for you when I read this! Thinking of you!!!

MJ- I can totally relate to the extreme anger!!!! I question God, life and everything around me everyday!!! I catch myself being ugly towards pg women all the time! Just outta spite! Looking them up and down with a snarl on my face... I can't help it! I have become a bitter old b*#ch! :blush:

DeafGal-Good luck for Thurs!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Miss Ama - I'm so sorry to read this xx


----------



## Sar187

Rae-Seems like things are really moving for you! We also used fresh sperm for our first IVF/ICSI attempt, however we decided against a donor sperm backup as we were given an 85% chance of retrieving sperm(DH has obstructive azoo). Sadly that cycle failed. We used frozen sperm for our 2nd IVF/ICSI attempt to get our BFP. The only suggestions I can give you for IVF are that if they do find sperm from your DH, don't be surprised if fertilization rates aren't very good. It depends on where they decide to retrieve the sperm from, but sometimes retrieved sperm is slightly less mature and not always able to fertilize the egg even with ICSI. Cycle 1 we had 13 eggs ICSI'd and 2 good embryos on day 3. #2 we had 13 ICSI'd and 3 good embryos on day 3. That said don't let a small #of embryos get you down, all you need is 1 good one. And try not to give up if it doesn't work the 1st time, sadly IVF isn't guranteed. Cycle one I was 24(now 25) with no issues, perfect lining, perfect hormone levels and perfect looking embryos and it didn't work. Sometimes there is no explanation but that doesn't mean you should give up! I'm praying you get there, and have success after 1 try!

Sun-Welcome!

KB-I think no matter what we get a little upset when someone takes a name we like, and it hurts even more when you are dealing with infertility, because it feels like they are taking away the image of that baby you don't have yet. ((Hugs))

Tiger-I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. I lost mine almost 2 years ago to cancer/stroke. Big hugs!

MJ-I have been there with the anger. It got to the point where I had to find some way to get myself balanced and grounded again. I think it takes something different for everyone but for me Reiki has been my savior, it has been absolutely amazing and made me feel so much more whole and myself. During our 2nd IVF cycle DH and I tried our best to not concentrate on the injections and everything else going on and just relax and be ourselves, I think the first time we lost "us" in all of the things going on. The 2nd time the meds and appointments we made just "routine" and were able to not lose ourselves as a couple. ((Hugs))

MissAma-I am so sorry. Do you guys have a next step? ((Hugs))

AFM-Things are going well and we got another look at our baby on Monday, Everything looked good and we got released from the fertility clinic to the OB! We had our first OB yesterday which went well and now I don't have another appt. until Feb. 15. 

Sorry if I missed anyone but I hope you are all doing well!


----------



## MissAma

I realize this is in no way comparable to those of you with a failed SSR and no babies since we got so incredibly lucky and snatched a baby off azoospermia's ugly claws but today has been horrid. It really hit me as bad as being told we have this in the first place. Maybe because we didn't expect it.

We do have a next step actually - l'm one of those people who needs a plan to function- we have a suspicion they did TESA not TeSE due to incompetence by how their recomendation today was to go to another clinic "who cuts a bigger piece of tissue and slices it to find sperm" so obviously we will go do TESE in a couple of months after all the changes Cornell advises - vits, dietary, etc, the fluff- and then if still nothing we will attempt mTESE - the grail would be at Dr.S at Cornell in NY but that's 25.000£ we may never have so maybe in London or Jimened in Turkey and if neither the other TESE nor the mTESE work then we know we've done all we can so we'll do some dIUIs and IVF if necessary and keep adoption as an option. We are getting Azoo baby #2 if l have to lie cheat or steal, l will not condemn te baby to being an only child because we're infertile!


----------



## Sar187

MissAma-I honestly can say I can imagine this is almost as bad as the first time, because having found sperm before you are expecting to go in and find something, not for them to tell you there was nothing. I'm so sorry to hear that you don't think they did the procedure you were expecting, you get all worked up for it and then they screw something up. I'm glad to hear you have a plan though. HUGS.


----------



## Pink Lolly

MissAma said:


> I realize this is in no way comparable to those of you with a failed SSR and no babies since we got so incredibly lucky and snatched a baby off azoospermia's ugly claws but today has been horrid. It really hit me as bad as being told we have this in the first place. Maybe because we didn't expect it.
> 
> We do have a next step actually - l'm one of those people who needs a plan to function- we have a suspicion they did TESA not TeSE due to incompetence by how their recomendation today was to go to another clinic "who cuts a bigger piece of tissue and slices it to find sperm" so obviously we will go do TESE in a couple of months after all the changes Cornell advises - vits, dietary, etc, the fluff- and then if still nothing we will attempt mTESE - the grail would be at Dr.S at Cornell in NY but that's 25.000£ we may never have so maybe in London or Jimened in Turkey and if neither the other TESE nor the mTESE work then we know we've done all we can so we'll do some dIUIs and IVF if necessary and keep adoption as an option. We are getting Azoo baby #2 if l have to lie cheat or steal, l will not condemn te baby to being an only child because we're infertile!

Glad to see you have a plan in place! :thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

So sorry to read your news MissAma but pleased to see I'm not the only one who needs a back-up plan in place at every steo of the way. Geez us azoospermia know how to fight to get what we want!! :ninja:

Sar - so thrilled to hear things are going well for you and the LO. It's so nice to read some good news in what otherwise seems to gave been a pretty horrible year so far for many of the girls in here.

AFM, I'm still getting -opk's :shrug: hubby's still getting no work and today **** news to add to the pile - my dentist phoned to say the xrays she took of my remaining impacted wisdom tooth has shown that it's causing the tooth next to it to decay and I need it out - probably a general anasthetic and because of the way it is lying, a nasty procedure that we've been trying to avoid at all costs :nope: Have had to explain about the IVF and she says we can work round it and dress the tooth to delay things if necessary so at least it wont cause a problem for the IVF - so just got to wait for the appt with the specialist to come through now. Geez - I'm fed up of being poked and prodded! :growlmad: 

Can't wait to see what delights tomorrow brings ... :nope:

Deafgal - good luck for tomorrow hun :thumbup:

I'm sure someone else had some appt this week but can't read back far enough to check whilst I'm typing, but good luck if it's you!


----------



## WANBMUM

We got our final results today.
It's not good. 
I will never have my husbands biological children :( It is inoperable. 
Numb and heartbroken. :(


----------



## deafgal01

How's everyone doing today?

Oh Wan! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:That's not good. :cry: It's not fair.

As for me, it's a waiting game. 2nd SA results will be in today- DH will go find out what they are at 4 pm today (in about 4 hours from now) and when he does, I think the dr will let him know what the plan is from there- what other tests they'll do or whatever. I can't go with him to the appt (he won't let me) so I just gotta stay home and await for word from him when he does find out. :shrug: Kinda scared to hear what the results are but at the same time, it's necessary for me to know where we go from here. I'm not being very hopeful though in case it turns out to be more bad news.


----------



## snd80

WANBMUM said:


> We got our final results today.
> It's not good.
> I will never have my husbands biological children :( It is inoperable.
> Numb and heartbroken. :(

Oh honey! I am SOOOO sorry!!!! I feel your every word! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: Can't hug you enough!!!!


----------



## Pink Lolly

WANBMUM said:


> We got our final results today.
> It's not good.
> I will never have my husbands biological children :( It is inoperable.
> Numb and heartbroken. :(

So sorry wanna - sending you lots of love :hugs:


----------



## Sar187

Wanbmum-So sorry to hear, I was so hopeful you were going to get good news. Praying for lots of strength for you so you can get through this. 

deafgal-Waiting sucks! good luck!


----------



## WANBMUM

Thank you. Yes it is hard to believe. I don't think we realize this is happening to us. It's a very abnormal feeling. 
I'm sure the next while will be tough and we will go through all sorts of emotions. Then it's time to move onto the next step. 
I just can't help thinking, I'll never have a baby with my oh's beautiful eyes, or good looks :( I know this is only a small thing in the grand scheme of things, but these were the images I had. 
It's tough. 
Good luck deafgal for today x


----------



## deafgal01

Wan- oh that's the worst... I'm scared of going thru that. :hugs: Eventually when you've gone thru all the emotions and recover as a couple, do you think you'd be looking at adoption? or other methods (donors) or just accept having no kids? I'm just curious how the heck we're supposed to figure out which path is right for us. :hugs:


----------



## snd80

WANBMUM said:


> I just can't help thinking, I'll never have a baby with my oh's beautiful eyes, or good looks :( I know this is only a small thing in the grand scheme of things, but these were the images I had.

Again, I feel your every word!!!! I'm tearing up for you just thinking about "what might have beens" myself! Life is just not fair, is it?! :hugs:


----------



## snd80

I ran up on this article and wanted to share it with you girls... it does not apply to all of us, but still a good read and hope booster for some! 

https://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn...82-miracle-baby-born-from-single-frozen-sperm

:hugs: to all!!!!


----------



## WANBMUM

deafgal01 said:


> Wan- oh that's the worst... I'm scared of going thru that. :hugs: Eventually when you've gone thru all the emotions and recover as a couple, do you think you'd be looking at adoption? or other methods (donors) or just accept having no kids? I'm just curious how the heck we're supposed to figure out which path is right for us. :hugs:

We had discussed 'what if's'. We decided a long time ago, that donor would be our next option. Thankfully, my OH has no doubts about this. My OH's attitude, is that the baby would be part me and he will love it unconditionally because of this and I understand what he means, because if it was the other way round, I would do anything to have his baby. 
Even though we had set ourselves up mentally, I dont think we actually thought this would be our reality. :shrug:
If for some reason this doesnt happen, adoption would be next on our list.
Accepting having no children is not an option for us :cry:
We will do anything.


----------



## deafgal01

Wan :hugs: Hopefully that works out for you... At least you two agree on something. I haven't really discussed the what ifs with my husband yet. I tried to but he's one of those guys that prefers to deal with it when it comes to it. Right now he's more willing to adopt than anything if we find out we're not able. :wacko: Which is not really fair to me cuz I want to experience being pregnant if only one time in my life. So I wait and see... I think eventually I can convince him though. :shrug: Time'll tell.

How pathetic... I'm watching the Ellen show on tv and she's showing a clip of a lady crying over her football team losing (they didn't make it into the superbowl game round)...


----------



## WANBMUM

Deafgal, give your hubby time, mine was the same after the 1st test or 2, it was only when things became more definite or real that he opened his mind to other options and even at that he would only discuss this on his terms, when he was ready.

Just be there for him and stay positive for him (it was my mother that reminded me of this and it really helped, I did sometimes when I wasnt feeling positive at all) Reassure him you love him no matter what, which is true. you have to be careful when suggesting donor sperm too early, as you can sound like your giving up or that you'll be happy not to have his baby. 
It's such a hard road to be on, sometimes I just had to/still have to remind myself it's 
much worse for them as they feel responsible for your heartbreak. 
How long more before the results? My oh wouldn't let me go with him either, so I understand how you feel.


----------



## deafgal01

We'll know the results from the 2nd SA in wow, 1 hour from now. Bit nervous. I cooked today which should tell him how much I love him considering he's always cooking for me and I never cook.

Definitely appreciate your reminder to be gentle with my man and show him I still love him regardless. I wonder what tests will be next. :wacko: I feel bad they want to do more tests on him (and I'm done with tests for the time being- I'm sure I'll undergo more later when we get referred).


----------



## Deb111

So so sorry Wanbmum - like you say, no matter how prepared we are for bad news, I don't think any of us really think it will be a total no aand the reality we have to deal with. Hoping you're doing as well as can be expected :hugs: 

Your child may not have your husbands eyes or his smile (and trust me, I am know how hard that is to deal with!) but your child will have yours and your husband's morals, values and probably many of your mannerisms and little sayings and all the love (and more) that any child deserves - whatever road this journey takes you down next - and that only has to be a good thing

Daefgal - keeping everything crossed for good news xx


----------



## MJ73

Hi Girls,
How is everyone today? I'm feeling a little more myself these days after my completely selfish post IVF failure meltdown. Able to do personals again. Sorry I was so me focused for a while. Went through a pretty tough time.

*Wanbmum*, so sorry to hear that hun. Know that we are all here for you. I can relate to all that you've said about those hopes of a child that is like your husband. My husband is a talented Jazz musician & we both kind of grieve for that inherited talent if we have to go down the donor path. Not to mention all the other things. Thinking of you & your man today & sending lots of :hugs:

*Deafgal*, have you got those results yet? Thinking of you & keeping everything crossed for you guys.

*SND*, that is such a great story, makes me feel that there is hope for us. It's interesting that the article said she retrieved fewer eggs than expected, I would have thought 12 was quite a good number. How you going hun? Are things moving along for you guys?

*Deb*, how's things going for you? That must have been so frustrating for you that your clinic have missed your ovulation. Our clinic starts testing from day 10 on a frozen cycle & on our last cycle I ovulated on day 14. Funny how we remember these things... Do they still have you tracking or are you just counting it as a missed cycle? 

*MissAma*, so sorry to hear your news. I imagine it is just as heartbreaking this time around. I know that everytime we do a cycle, every step of the way is edge of the seat stuff. Just waiting & hoping. So glad that you're so determined to provide a sib for Dara. We are with you through this journey, whatever your next step is. I know that your story has been a real inspiration for me.

*KB38*, we're in NSW; going through Genea (used to be Sydney IVF). They don't do unknown donor there & I understand that the wait time at other clinics for unkown donor sperm can be really long. Which state are you in & which clinic are you at? 

*Sar*, I cannot believe that I missed your BFP, I just had to have a break from all things 'IVFy' for a while. You guys must have got your BFP just after we found out our cycle was a bust. I am so happy for you, how exciting being released from the clinic to an ObGyn, must make it all feel so real & getting to see your bub; what a gift! So happy for you :happydance:

Sorry to anyone I've missed out. Now that I'm up to date I promise to do shorter posts! 

AFM, I have another appt with my endo on tues, just to make sure my Hashimotos & PCOS are being managed properly... Then on the 15th Feb we have an appt with our reproductive Dr (The Indiana Jones of sperm as we call him:wacko:, if he can't find it, it's not there!) to discuss our failed cycle & where to go from here. Meanwhile I have to get my butt moving & try to budge some of the 20kgs I've gained by comfort eating since we started this bloody azoos journey (& I wasn't small to begin with!)... Step away from the chocolate MJ, step away...
Chat soon :kiss:


----------



## WANBMUM

Deb111 said:


> So so sorry Wanbmum - like you say, no matter how prepared we are for bad news, I don't think any of us really think it will be a total no aand the reality we have to deal with. Hoping you're doing as well as can be expected :hugs:
> 
> Your child may not have your husbands eyes or his smile (and trust me, I am know how hard that is to deal with!) but your child will have yours and your husband's morals, values and probably many of your mannerisms and little sayings and all the love (and more) that any child deserves - whatever road this journey takes you down next - and that only has to be a good thing
> 
> Daefgal - keeping everything crossed for good news xx

Wow thank you Deb, your words are so comforting and so true.
It means alot x


----------



## WANBMUM

Thanks MJ :)
I'm with you on the weight front, I have a tonne to lose!


----------



## Deb111

There seem to be several of us trying to lose weight at the moment so let's get cheering each other on :happydance: Maybe we should get some tickers up and weekly updates? I know I have found you all incredibly supportive with the azoo, so why would it be any different with losing weight - it's all part of this journey and I think the 'depression' that goes with this azoo journey at many stages is different to many other people's journeys.

I joined the ww thread on here, but don't find it anywhere near as supportive as this group (although I have to admit I am just very comfortable here so maybe didn't give it a fair go :blush:)

Off to weigh myself after my first week back on ww since christmas (when I put on 5 of the 6 lbs I'd just lost!) :dohh:


----------



## Deb111

Snd - fabulous article thanks! :thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

MJ73 said:


> *Deb*, how's things going for you? That must have been so frustrating for you that your clinic have missed your ovulation. Our clinic starts testing from day 10 on a frozen cycle & on our last cycle I ovulated on day 14. Funny how we remember these things... Do they still have you tracking or are you just counting it as a missed cycle?

MJ - it's lovely to see you back :hugs:

Our clinic doesn't bother to get you to test yourself with opk's; they just go on scan info. They're still not convinced that the clinic scanning me were correct in saying I'd ovulated, but I've been doing opk's ever since and I'm on cd 19 today and my cycles are pretty regular, so I'm not testing anymore - we clearly missed it.

I regret not doing opk's myself now, but my clinic said it wasn't necessary and I thought why go to the extra expense and screw my head up weeing on a stick every few hours if it wasn't necessary. I blame the stress we've been under with a lot of other things lately for not thinking straight and doing what I usually do in life; not trusting anyone and wanting to be in control of it myself whatever they said :shrug:

Anyway, with the fact that the 2 clinics seem to not agree and our main clinic wanted me to 'pop down' (3 hours journey each way) so they could check for themselves! *WE* took control and took the decision out of their hands and cancelled the cycle. I couldn't cope with all the uncertainty of 'we might' 'we can't' 'oh, maybe we still could' :wacko:


----------



## deafgal01

:hi: Well, we got the results back yesterday. Surprisingly I wasn't as crushed as the first time we found out. So that "mental attitude" of thinking it'd be the same helped.

Results- 2nd SA came in with 0 sperm count. Dr discussed with DH the plan. It's either blockage or sperm production issue - which I already knew from everything I've read in here and the research. Plan of action is to start on medicine for 1 1/2 months and retest the blood work to see if it's helping DH's testosterone. If that doesn't work, we're looking at surgery in the summer (he'll need 4 to 5 days off so if it happens in summer, that works out for us cuz we both are off). I'm thinking the medicine helps with sperm production issue (since they are supposed to "raise" the testosterone level). So surgery would mean blockage...:shrug: We really don't know which one is the issue cuz the dr said it could be either one. I guess this means we're confirmed for azoospermia.

Deb- I like your idea of the ladies in here supporting each other on weight loss. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself (20 isn't that much) while I'm waiting to see how this all pans out.


----------



## Deb111

Sorry the news wasn't better deafgal :hugs:

Surgery doesn't necessarily mean a blockage hun. If the sperm production can't be driven up massively, there still wont be enough to get into the ejaculate. My hubby doesn't have a blockage but needed surgery.

What meds has he been put on? xx


----------



## deafgal01

Idk... DH didn't say which med. Just that it's supposed to raise his testosterone levels to tell his testes to stop being lazy and do its job. :rofl: Love how he worded that this morning... I was asking him how does the whole male function thing works - cuz I didn't realize sperm were in a separate tube from the semen liquid. :dohh:


----------



## Deb111

I'd be interested to know what meds he's on when you get a chance.

My hubby was on tamoxifen which changed him almost overnight! :happydance: and his testosterone level went up pretty quickly, as did his fsh, but his oestradiol also went up which wasn't ideal so the specialist changed him to anastrazole xx


----------



## deafgal01

oestradiol ? Now I gotta go google that when I get a chance.

How did he change overnight? His dr mentioned the mild side effects of this med might be higher sex drive, more hair, and a little weight gain.


----------



## Deb111

oestradiol = female hormone - it can balance out the good effects of the testosterone a bit

My hubby has low testosterone and underactive thyroid, so he quite often mimics symptoms of depression, has no energy, no motivation, NO sex drive whatsoever, not much emotional support for me, in his own little world etc

Within a week of taking the tamoxifen, his energy levels shot up, he was happier, incredibly motivated, much more supportive of me, doing jobs around the house and feeling pleased with himself for doing them. It was like a great cloud had been lifted. Unfortunately his sex drive has never returned :nope:

We had a blood test after 2 weeks and his testosterone had shot up from something like 8 to 13 :thumbup: so it all co-incided with the change of mood / energy

Unfortunately he can't take those tablets permanently, so he's gradually slipped back down to how he was before. We need to see his specialist again to find out of the mTESE procedure can be done if necessary because if it can't or there's no point because he took out all the good tubules then we need to get on him testosterone replacement therapy. Can't do that until we're 100% sure we wont or can't get anymore sperm from him


----------



## deafgal01

Ah interesting. Dh has no prob with his sex drive- he actually wants it more often than I do.:haha:

Good luck with your man - hope they figure out whether or not he has any more sperms.


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry the news wasn't great deafgal. This is such a roller coaster, isn't it? 

Deb, I hope you get yours answers soon. You've been waiting for a long time. I'm sorry things are still so up in the air.

We are trying to mentally prepare ourselves for our first RE visit on Wednesday. We know that they won't have any answers about DH, but I do have questions about my high prolactin and estrogen/testosterone being low. So, while we wait for testing on DH, I hope they can look further at me too. Do you think they could even start B/W on DH without a uro, or will we have another long wait there?


----------



## snd80

Deaf- Sorry the news wasn't any better, but at least you were mentally prepared this time and not as shocked as you were the first time. :hugs:

Deb- I am all for starting a weight loss support of us azoo ladies! I weighed Sunday, 1/15, then again last night at the gym and have lost 2 lbs since Sunday! Now could be cause AF is here this week.... IDK, but I will take it anyways!!! :happydance:

MJ- :hugs: Hate things didn't work out! Don't give up though! One day it WILL be our turn!!!! One way or another!!! :thumbup:


----------



## SunUp

I am super excited....
DH's insurance covers 100% of IVF for us!
Doing a lot of tests this month and hoping to have our plan determined by next month!

Hope you all are having a great week


----------



## snd80

Yay Sun! You are one lucky girl! :thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

Great news Sun - that's one less thing to have to worry about! :thumbup: xx


----------



## wibble wobble

WANBMUM said:


> We got our final results today.
> It's not good.
> I will never have my husbands biological children :( It is inoperable.
> Numb and heartbroken. :(

Really sorry for you sending you huge virtual :hugs::hugs: It's really hard to be told your never going to have your husbands baby. Give yourself plenty of time to grieve the baby that wont be. Take some time to talk through your feelings together,the worst thing you can do is keep it all inside. I did this for 2 weeks and ended up having a meltdown in work. :hugs:

Counselling may not be for you,but it helped me and mine to understand how we were feeling and why we were feeling that way.


----------



## wibble wobble

snd80 said:


> Deb- I am all for starting a weight loss support of us azoo ladies! I weighed Sunday, 1/15, then again last night at the gym and have lost 2 lbs since Sunday! Now could be cause AF is here this week.... IDK, but I will take it anyway

I've lost 2lbs too :happydance: I was hoping that by now I'd be almost back to my weight before the azoo diagnosis but still 10lbs to go for that and I'd like to shift a further 7 after that. I think it's a great idea for us to support with weight loss as well as the azoo. We could swap tips


----------



## raelynn

CanadianMaple said:


> Do you think they could even start B/W on DH without a uro, or will we have another long wait there?

Canadian Maple - I don't know how it works in different areas but here in the US our RE sent hubby for blood work before we've seen the urologist. They'll fax his results over for our first appointment with the urologist so we don't waste any time.


I'm up for the weight loss support too. I've been trying to get back to a better weight so I know that I am in the best possible shape when we start our IVF cycle. I want to know I did everything I can to try and make this work.


----------



## KB38

Definitely up for the weight loss club! I've put on ALOT of weight since DH's diagnosis. I've been trying since New Year but not getting anywhere! We're going away on Wednesday for 5 nights so come Tuesday the week after, I am determined to at least get back to my pre-azoo weight!!!!!


----------



## deafgal01

Clomiphere Citrate is the name of the med they're trying him on. :shrug: Anyone have any experience with their hubby using it?


----------



## MJ73

Sun you are so lucky! That will relieve a heap of stress for you guys. A big YAY! Happy news xx


----------



## MJ73

deafgal01 said:


> Clomiphere Citrate is the name of the med they're trying him on. :shrug: Anyone have any experience with their hubby using it?

Sorry to hear your result wasn't good, but its good that you sound hopeful & so great that the Drs are moving quickly. My DH was never offered any kind of medication as his testosterone levels were within the norm. Good luck xx


----------



## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> There seem to be several of us trying to lose weight at the moment so let's get cheering each other on :happydance: Maybe we should get some tickers up and weekly updates? I know I have found you all incredibly supportive with the azoo, so why would it be any different with losing weight - it's all part of this journey and I think the 'depression' that goes with this azoo journey at many stages is different to many other people's journeys.
> 
> I joined the ww thread on here, but don't find it anywhere near as supportive as this group (although I have to admit I am just very comfortable here so maybe didn't give it a fair go :blush:)
> 
> Off to weigh myself after my first week back on ww since christmas (when I put on 5 of the 6 lbs I'd just lost!) :dohh:

Great idea Deb, I know I need all the support I can get. I have no idea how to do a ticker though, I only just learned that you can thank people for their posts. I'm such a technical luddite lol.


----------



## MJ73

KB38 said:


> MJ73 said:
> 
> 
> Hi there girls :flower:,
> Sperm donor is too hard in Aus (we have to have a 'known donor')
> 
> MJ, not sure which State you're in but have you spoken to any other clinics?
> 
> We don't have a known donor and so we will be using an "unknown" donor. We have all the paperwork to get going if we decide to go that way...Click to expand...

Thanks for that KB. We're in NSW; going through Genea (used to be Sydney IVF). They don't do unknown donor there & I understand that the wait time at other clinics for unkown donor sperm can be really long. Which state are you in & which clinic are you at? Since reading your post I've done some research & found that there is one clinic in Bondi who use unknown donors. DH has finally started being open to the idea that DS may be a path to parenthood for us.


----------



## KB38

MJ73 said:


> KB38 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJ73 said:
> 
> 
> Thanks for that KB. We're in NSW; going through Genea (used to be Sydney IVF). They don't do unknown donor there & I understand that the wait time at other clinics for unkown donor sperm can be really long. Which state are you in & which clinic are you at? Since reading your post I've done some research & found that there is one clinic in Bondi who use unknown donors. DH has finally started being open to the idea that DS may be a path to parenthood for us.
> 
> Hi MJ - We are with QFG. I understand that the wait time for Australian donors is quite long because there are so few people prepared to do it for free as you can't trade in gametes but that it is still possible to import relatively easily. I haven't looked into the cost too much yet and I'm am sure it is really expensive but it is an option if you don't want to wait.
> 
> Anyway, I've just googled 'donor sperm and NSW' and came up with a couple of links to try:
> 
> * https://www.fertilityeast.com.au/donor_sperm.html (this might be the place you'd found)
> *https://www.ivf.com.au/ivf-donor-program/sperm-donation.aspx (I think this place is affiliated with our clinic...).
> 
> There are heaps of others. Make sure you ask your clinic for copies of all of your test results and DH's test results so that you don't have to redo them all at the new clinic. It gets expensive as a lot of them aren't Medicare rebatable.
> 
> I've found that most of the IVF clinics in Australia don't really know a lot about male factor infertility so you have to be really persistent (DH calls it pushy) to get what you want.
> 
> Good luck :flower:
> 
> PS please let me know what you find out. Two heads doing this research are bound to be better than one (especially my very tired and over it one) :wacko:Click to expand...Click to expand...


----------



## deafgal01

Back on page 169- MJ mentions extreme anger... :dohh: it hit me like a train wreck yesterday. After a depressing sermon about cheating in church yesterday, for no reason at all I just got very very very pissed off at the world and at everything. Pretty ugly and I asked dh if I was allowed to be that angry. He said it was fine as long I did not take it out on him. I'm in a better mood today but I guess that angry feeling will come and go.


----------



## SunUp

You can feel angry.
I think that is pretty normal.
//Hugs\\


----------



## snd80

RE: Weight Loss

I have decided to try doing "the Special K Challenge" starting today... suppost to loose 6 lbs. in 2 weeks if you do the following:

B'fast- A bowl of Special K (any flavor- I chose the Chocolate Delight=YUMMY!)
Morning Snack- either a Special K Protein Snack Bar or their Cracker Chips
Lunch- Special K Protein Shake
Afternoon Snack- same choices as morning snack
Supper- a regular meal

We shall see how it works! Hopefully good! I forgot to pick up some of the snacks they say to have, so I and going to eat fruit until I can pick some up. 

I weighed at the gym again yesterday and am back up those 2 lbs. I supposedly lost... who knows! I have been doing 2-3 miles on the treadmill/eliptical 5 days a week. Going to switch up my routine this week to 1 mile and then weight training... Something has got to give!!! In a year I have only lost 30 lbs total and have been working my butt off in the gym up until Nov, but have been back at it for about 3 weeks now... any other suggestions?

Hope everyone has a great day! :hugs:


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## snd80

Oh, here is a funny for ya'll... Yesterday my SIL told me "Nikki, you already have that pregnant look, all glowing and shit", to which I replied "It's just cause I'm fat and don't have on any makeup today!" :rofl: Her husband busted out laughing! She knows we are going for IUI in May (but thinks it will be w/ hubby's sperm), so maybe she was just trying to be nice. :awww: Still thought it was funny! She ain't got no sense!


----------



## silverbell

Can't catch up right now, ladies, but just posting to say we were given the results of DH's microTESE a couple of hours ago ...

Unfortunately he has zero sperm. :cry:


----------



## snd80

Oh SB! :cry: Thoughts and prayers are with you!!!!! :hugs:


----------



## SunUp

Big hugs SB!


----------



## Pink Lolly

:hugs: sb we are all thinking of you xx


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## deafgal01

Oh Silverbells :hugs: That's the worst news possible. :cry:

SND- thanks for sharing that laugh today. Good luck with losing 6 pounds over the next 2 weeks. Maybe I'll do that eventually... Right now I just reduce the amount of food I eat.


----------



## Deb111

SB - I'm so so sorry :hugs: there are no words xx

Deafgal - that med is basically clomid - we were intially told it was one of the eds we could try hubby on, but the blood test results steered him towards the tamoxifen -goo luck xx


----------



## MissAma

Oh FFS what is it with all the horrid news?! Wannabe and dea - sorry to hear it, ladies...

SB - oh no....:( l am ever so sorry... Have you given next steps any thought?

Thank you for the kind words everyone...

MJ, KB - l will be in Sydney sometime in March, fancy an azoo-meet? Deb, SB - in London in two weeks, anyone close?

We've been alternating between mourning and planning. Our next step is to email Ramsey and ask what hos thoughts are, the Viking really want to try hormonal treatment before slashing anything again and we'd like to know if he would let us take the sperm if he found any with mTESE case in whic we'd save for him which would give me some more months to shift the tens of pounds l still have to lose...


----------



## Deb111

We're about 3 hours away from london so not particularly close, but alot closer than you are now! :winkwink:

What dates are you here?


----------



## MJ73

SB, so sorry to hear that hun. Strength & peace to you & DH to get through this time:hugs:

MissAma, I know what you mean about all the bad news. I think we all deserve a bloody medal :thumbup: for facing things with grace & dignity. Although what other choice do we have? I would love to try to organise a get together with you, I think that KB may live in Queensland though, so that may be a bit tricky. What dates are you here, I'm away from the 3rd to 10th March.

KB, thanks for that, I love having another Aussie on this journey. It seems that our govt has done their darndest to make it as difficult as possible to access donor eggs & sperm. It sounds so much easier in the UK & US. I'll let you know anything I find out.

SND, sending loads of strength with your Special K challenge:wave: Sometimes with weightloss it feels like we're ](*,) banging our head against a brick wall. Today is the 1st day for me to get serious again. Back to walking, back to the gym & just generally eating better. 

AFM, I'm off to the my Endo appt this afternoon. She may put me on metformin, we'll see what she has to say...


----------



## MJ73

I saw this on an IVF blog the other day & it made me giggle, you know those stickers you see on the back of cars that say 'my other car is a porsche...' (or some other type of expensive car). Well here's one for us...

*My other car is my reproductive doctor's yacht...* :fool:


----------



## deafgal01

:haha: MJ that's a funny one!


----------



## MissAma

5th to the 10th of Feb, Deb, with 5th evening still open for now. 

18th to the 27th, MJ - l'll probably do Perth, Melbourne and Sydney. Not yet sure on Brisbane.

We're sadly in the hospital with Dara who managed to ride her tiny body with pneumonia... For how precious your azoo-babies will be to you, the worry and the heartbreak will be proportional but you WILL get them, you're all beautiful -irrelevant but true- and strong -relevant!- future mommies.


----------



## MJ73

MissAma said:


> 5th to the 10th of Feb, Deb, with 5th evening still open for now.
> 
> 18th to the 27th, MJ - l'll probably do Perth, Melbourne and Sydney. Not yet sure on Brisbane.
> 
> We're sadly in the hospital with Dara who managed to ride her tiny body with pneumonia... For how precious your azoo-babies will be to you, the worry and the heartbreak will be proportional but you WILL get them, you're all beautiful -irrelevant but true- and strong -relevant!- future mommies.

Oh no, sending lots of healing to Dara, poor little cherub. I should be around during those dates. I've never actually met anyone who's DH has azoos & I've only met one other woman who's done IVF so would definitely be keen for a catch up. What's the reason for your visit?


----------



## MJ73

AFM, I had the appt with my endo this afternoon & she has put me on metformin as my insulin levels are 'extremely high' & my blood glucose level is higher than she'd like if I were to fall pregnant. She reiterated how much she'd like me to lose 5-10kgs before I start my next ivf cycle as she thinks it will improve our chances of conception. She said I had four risk factors for miscarriage; Hashimotos, PCOS, advanced maternal age (eek!) and obesity (double eek!). So basically, I'm sick, old & fat:wacko: Great boost for the 'ol self esteem:blush: I guess I should be thankful she didn't call me hairy too:haha:


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: good luck MJ!

MissAma- hope lil Dara recovers quickly! :hugs:


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi everyone

Silverbell sorry to hear your news xx

afm I've been dealt another blow on the fertility front today. My amh level is only 17.4 so my consultant wont let me try diui as rates of success are better going straight for ivf. Just got to wait 8 weeks or so now for my screening bloods to be processed and then we should get to meet with the donor co ordinator


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone, 

Thanks you so much for all your lovely messages, you really are the most wonderful group of ladies. I'm still waiting for it all to sink in really, I keep expecting the phone to ring and it's dad asking me what I want for tea when I come to visit...

It looks like 2012 is being a right b**ch to a lot of us on here, it just HAS to get better. 

MissAma: I'm so sorry :hugs: It's good to hear you have a plan in place, I'm keeping everything crossed for you. I hope little Dara is on the mend, lots of cuddles to the little sweetheart.

SB: Oh no, sweetie, it's the news we all dread. Sending you huge, HUGE :hugs: I know you were preparing yourself for the worst, but it's still the biggest and most heart-breaking news :hugs:

Wanbmum: darling, I'm so sorry for you and DH. I think you summed-up completely how we all feel. Big :hugs: on their way to you :hugs:

I'm also sending massive, super-squishie :hugs: to Debs, SND, wibble, dg01, raelynn, Canadian, KB38, MJ, Sar and any other lovely lady I've managed to miss in my confused state :hugs:

On the TTC front, we're still trying to get a date for DH's TESE. Can I ask a question; if we have no joy with the TESE, is it worth getting a second opinion and pursuing a mTESE? We're still undecided on using donor, so if there aren't any, I think it might just break me right now. 

I hope you all have a good evening and if 2012 is giving you grief, let me know and I'll happily kick it up the butt!

Much love, 

C xx


----------



## snd80

Good to see you back Tiger! :thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

MJ73 said:


> AFM, I had the appt with my endo this afternoon & she has put me on metformin as my insulin levels are 'extremely high' & my blood glucose level is higher than she'd like if I were to fall pregnant. She reiterated how much she'd like me to lose 5-10kgs before I start my next ivf cycle as she thinks it will improve our chances of conception. She said I had four risk factors for miscarriage; Hashimotos, PCOS, advanced maternal age (eek!) and obesity (double eek!). So basically, I'm sick, old & fat:wacko: Great boost for the 'ol self esteem:blush: I guess I should be thankful she didn't call me hairy too:haha:

Awww bless you :hugs:

Bet I'm older and fatter than you! :haha: xx


----------



## snd80

MissAma- Sending healing hugs to your sweet baby!!!!


----------



## Deb111

MissAma - so sorry to hear about Dara - big cuddles to her from all her B'n'B azoo aunties :hugs:

Sadly, I don't think we will be able to meet up when you are in london this time as it's Mon - Fri and I will be working and couldn't manage to fit in a 6 hour round trip plus time when we got there - hopefully another time 

Tiger - lovely to see you back. mTESE would definitely be an option to consider. Mr Ramsay is one of the best and local to you so that's a bonus! When SB is up to being back here, I'm sure she will tell you how to go about getting a referral on the NHS for him - might be worth going straight for the mTESE - it has a much higher chance of finding sperm if there are some in there, especially of there's very small numbers like we had. The TESE (random biopsy) found 3 - mTESE found 40ish


----------



## Deb111

Apologies for just cutting and pasting from my journal, but would value your opinions girls ...

I'm really, really struggling girls - I think I need to go back onto my anti-depressants but am terrified of it causing a problem for any potential baby. Apparently, the one I'm on raises the risk of congenital heart defects from 1% to 2%. Plus it owuld mean I wouldn't be able to breastfeed.

I am very low right now, but what seems to be really bad is my anxiety. It's worse than it's ever been. In the past it has just reared up a bit when my depression is bad, but this time it is horrendous. Maybe I need anxiety medication, not anti-depressants - who knows?

The thing is, when my anxiety starts usually, it is an excessive worry about something that is going on in my life at that time - it's not pleasant but it's manageable. 

The trouble is, at the moment, so many horrible things have happened that the excessive anxiety about them all is bordering on unmanageable.

My mum's not been well and has been having some tests - it's most likely nothing serious, but they're just having trouble getting to the bottom of it - I'm very worried about her.

Terry's friend dying in his sleep like that has made me think it can happen to any of us and is just frightening.

Our next door neighbours had an attempted break-in one evening when they were in the house just before christmas and I've just started getting over the anxiety of that and I wake up this morning to find a police care a few doors away - they targetted another neighbour last night, when they were all asleep upstairs - went stright over their security gate and forced the FRONT window. I don't know if they disturbed them or if they got in yet but now I'm terrified. We always thought Finn was a deterrent but they have a small dog too.

And when Terry's out driving with any work he does manage to get, I'm anxious about soemthing happening to him, especially when he's doing long distances.

I has made me anxious to be at home, anxious to be out of the house and I suddenly had this horrible thought come into my head when I was at work today that they might get in and do something horrible to finn. I was almost in tears at my desk at work and I can't get these thoughts and images out of my head.

It makes me feel, and probably sound, like I'm going mad 

I guess I have to weight up the risks of being on medication with the prospect of going through IVF and maybe a pregnancy with this high level of anxiety


----------



## tigerlily1975

Oh, Deb, sweetheart :hugs: :hugs: NO you are NOT going mad!

I definitely think you need to sit down and have a good chat with your GP - if they're the understanding type. I've been having 'dizzy fits' (started in October) and after a good chat with the Dr she thinks it's stress related - combo of work and the Azoo (she was actually really surprised that the hospital does not offer counselling for us as couple going through this). I bet every single one of us on here is dealing with additional stress from this situation and we don't get the 'emotional' support that we really need to deal with it or at least, try to. 

If you need to take medication to help you get through this incredibly tough time (I've been depressed and been on anti-depressants and I think most people do at some point in their life), then I think it's an absolute must. Right now you need to get YOU in the right place to face this incredibly hard journey. You are trying to juggle a lot and maybe it's for the best to take a breather and get everything in order and most importantly to FEEL ready for the next step, because it's a big one and you're putting your body and emotions through a helluva lot. 

But PLEASE promise me and all of us that you'll go and have a chat with the Dr, we want a healthy and well Deb. 

Be kind to yourself, hun.

C xx

P.S. I hope your mum is feeling better.


----------



## deafgal01

Wibble - :hugs:

Tiger- I think a 2nd opinion would be good. Hope that other test will find sperms.

Deb- I agree with the girls. You should talk to the dr and see if there's something they can offer- whether in terms of counseling help or a different medicine. :hugs: This is a really hard journey and you're so strong for going thru this (although not by choice- none of us have a say in this situation/challenge life has to throw at us). You've certainly been thru so much recently and I hope your mom feels better soon!


----------



## Deb111

Thanks girls :hugs:

Tiger - the thing is, I'm not prepared to delay the IVF - I'm 38 next month and just not happy to leave things any longer so it's a balance between the risks of the meds and dealing with my anxiety / depression

I tried to make an appt at the dr's and the next routine one they could offer me was 2 weeks today - not an option! :growlmad: So I have to phone at 2pm every day until I manage to get through quickly enough to get one of the 4 appts they release on the day - guess that's a job for hubby as he isn't working and I will be in class teaching at that time :shrug:


----------



## snd80

Oh Deb, you poor thing! I really don't think it would hurt to take something whilst trying, up until you do get pg? It's kinda a damn if you do; damn if you don't type situation. You seem like me, a worry wort, wanting/needing to control every aspect of everything for it to go "right" in your eyes. It's not easy either. :nope: I take a .5mg xanex everyday just to function. But I was put on them before our official azoo diagnosis, when we first found out about Marty's kidney problems. :shrug: Sometimes you just gotta let go. It is what it is.. You can't be the hero all the time. Sometimes the hero needs a hero themselves! :winkwink:

Hope everything turns out ok for you mother! When it rains, it pours doesn't it! 

Jeez, I didn't realize that B&E was as bad overseas as it is here! Might be worth checking into a security system? I am so much more comfortable now that we have ours!!! After we got broken into, like you, I was panicky; scared to even leave the house for fear that they would come back for what they didn't get the first time. The day after it happened I stayed home in the quiet dark just listening and waiting for 6 hours until Marty got home from dialysis. That was the worst day ever!!!!

Now, get your butt to the dr. lady and get something done! :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Thanks snd :hugs:

The thing is with antidepressants, they take a good 2 weeks to start to get into your system and then from experience, another 4 weeks until I was feeling my old self again and then they recommend a minimum of 6 months on them I think, so I have to accept that if I do go back on them, I will be on them whilst we are going through the ICSI and during any potential pregnancy and then I wouldn't be able to breastfeed either

I went back on them for a short time whilst we had several months of waiting before hubby's mTESE, but came off them, without any major issues, before we started the ICSI

It's not been as bad today - I've kept myself busy at work and I knew hubby was home today so felt things were safer - but I know the anxiety is still there waiting to bubble up again

Apparently the dog of the people over the road had a go at the burglars! :happydance: but apparently that was preferable to if the bloke had have got hold of them - he's a kick boxer and an ex boxer :ninja: - now I'd have paid to watch him do that to the lowlife scum!

We have 'trained up' our little guard dog and now leave the hallway door open so we can hear him easily if he barks - I thought he'd be a nightmare keeping me awake barking at every sound last night, but he was absolutely golden - apart from a 10 minute stand - off between him and the cats just after we'd gone to bed - from either side of the stair gate - just the odd low growl and excited bark!! :wacko:

We can't afford a security / burglar alarm system and it would be difficult to use with the pets in the house, but we have just bought a combined security light / camera and voice alert which will hopefully be a deterent - doubt we'll use the voice alert though - I don't think the neighbours would be too impressed with "YOU ARE TRESPASSING" or "YOU ARE BEING FILMED" booming out every time a cat walked past :wacko:

The police say they have caught 2 guys who stole a car about 4 / 5 miles from here - I really don't see the connection to be honest, unless one of them has a dog's mouth sized chunk out of it's leg :winkwink:


----------



## snd80

Deb111 said:


> We can't afford a security / burglar alarm system and it would be difficult to use with the pets in the house, but we have just bought a combined security light / camera and voice alert which will hopefully be a deterent - doubt we'll use the voice alert though - I don't think the neighbours would be too impressed with "YOU ARE TRESPASSING" or "YOU ARE BEING FILMED" booming out every time a cat walked past :wacko:

Ha! Never thought about "what if you have animals in the house" when you leave?! Guess cause we don't have indoor pets! Blonde moment! :dohh:

And never thought about meds and breast feeding! (Only cause I don't plan on it.) Knowing me, I will be back at work the next week after ours is born cause I am a work-a-holic! Another blonde moment! :rofl:


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm sorry things have been so rough Deb. 

I'm so nervous, our first appointment is tomorrow with the RE.


----------



## KB38

Deb111, right now you need to look after you. 

I was feeling a similar way a few months ago and when I went to my GP she looked at me and said 'do you really think you are going to fall pregnant, however that has to happen, while you are this wound up'. I broke down in tears and then and there decided that whilst I didn't have the strength to do it for myself, I most certainly could and would do anything for that baby.

So rather than making DH my project and spending all my time and energy fighting with doctors and nurses and second guessing, I decided for a month I would make myself my project. After all, I am the one who's going to have to give our baby somewhere to grow 

The GP recommended I defer the anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds for a month (this might not be the right decision for you so do talk to the GP) and instead to take a Bach remedy called 'rescue remedy' whenever I felt stressed or anxious. She also told me to write down what I was thinking about when I was feeling anxious or stressed, look at the list, work out whether it was something to be anxious or stressed about and work out what I needed to feel better and write that down in a separate column. 

This really helped me to stop my thoughts racing away from me. It also gave me some perspective about what I could and couldn't influence so that I could use what little energy I had focusing on what I could influence and not worrying about what I couldn't. It also gave me a weird sense of achievement to cross things off my list!

I also started doing jigsaw puzzles and cross stitch (ie things that I don't have to think about but which distract me from my own thoughts especially when they are in the 'things I can't influence column').

I have also been trying to eat really well (I even bought Jenny Craig food for a few weeks so I didn't have to think about cooking - it was just there), upped my accupuncture to twice weekly for a month and started doing some gentle exercise again.
I can't say that I am 100% but I do feel a lot better.

Having said all of that, if you really feel that meds will be a better option for you then you should do it! You've had to make a lot of sacrifices on this journey, don't sacrifice yourself too


----------



## deafgal01

Canadian- good luck tomorrow.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> Thanks girls :hugs:
> 
> Tiger - the thing is, I'm not prepared to delay the IVF - I'm 38 next month and just not happy to leave things any longer so it's a balance between the risks of the meds and dealing with my anxiety / depression
> 
> I tried to make an appt at the dr's and the next routine one they could offer me was 2 weeks today - not an option! :growlmad: So I have to phone at 2pm every day until I manage to get through quickly enough to get one of the 4 appts they release on the day - guess that's a job for hubby as he isn't working and I will be in class teaching at that time :shrug:

I hope you managed to get an appointment with the GP. It's insane now, it's almost like you have to predict when you're going to be ill so that you can make your appointment two weeks in advance! Ker-razeee!

I think KB38 is right on the money. I know where you are coming from with the age (I'm 37 in June, so my clock is ticking loud and clear), but do you feel up to going through IVF right now? If you took, say, a two-month break so that you can be in the best shape for a pregnancy, would that benefit you in the long-run?

You will get there, but you have to help yourself too, hun.

Big :hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Good to see you back Tiger! :thumbup:

Thanks, hun! How are you doing?

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

CanadianMaple said:


> I'm sorry things have been so rough Deb.
> 
> I'm so nervous, our first appointment is tomorrow with the RE.


Good luck, Canadian, I hope it goes well.

C xx


----------



## mumanddad

Hope your all well, ill do some reading back later xx


----------



## snd80

Good luck CM! Thinking of you!

Tiger-How are you holding up? :hugs: Doing good here. Getting impatient! LOL! So ready for May to be here already!!!!! :wohoo:

Hope everyone else is having a great day!


----------



## Deb111

Post about Dr coming up in a minute ...



KB38 said:


> Deb111, right now you need to look after you.
> 
> I was feeling a similar way a few months ago and when I went to my GP she looked at me and said 'do you really think you are going to fall pregnant, however that has to happen, while you are this wound up'. I broke down in tears and then and there decided that whilst I didn't have the strength to do it for myself, I most certainly could and would do anything for that baby.
> 
> So rather than making DH my project and spending all my time and energy fighting with doctors and nurses and second guessing, I decided for a month I would make myself my project. After all, I am the one who's going to have to give our baby somewhere to grow
> 
> The GP recommended I defer the anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds for a month (this might not be the right decision for you so do talk to the GP) and instead to take a Bach remedy called 'rescue remedy' whenever I felt stressed or anxious. She also told me to write down what I was thinking about when I was feeling anxious or stressed, look at the list, work out whether it was something to be anxious or stressed about and work out what I needed to feel better and write that down in a separate column.
> 
> This really helped me to stop my thoughts racing away from me. It also gave me some perspective about what I could and couldn't influence so that I could use what little energy I had focusing on what I could influence and not worrying about what I couldn't. It also gave me a weird sense of achievement to cross things off my list!
> 
> I also started doing jigsaw puzzles and cross stitch (ie things that I don't have to think about but which distract me from my own thoughts especially when they are in the 'things I can't influence column').
> 
> I have also been trying to eat really well (I even bought Jenny Craig food for a few weeks so I didn't have to think about cooking - it was just there), upped my accupuncture to twice weekly for a month and started doing some gentle exercise again.
> I can't say that I am 100% but I do feel a lot better.
> 
> Having said all of that, if you really feel that meds will be a better option for you then you should do it! You've had to make a lot of sacrifices on this journey, don't sacrifice yourself too

Thanks so much for this KB - it's given me some good ideas - I know I need to start looking after myself. Stupid things like my eyebrows need shaping, I haven't worn make up excpet on special occassions for I don't know how long - I look in the mirror and barely even recognise myself anymore! I will definitely try. In fact hubby's watching football this evneing so I plan to go and have a soak in the bath and do my eyebrows :thumbup:



tigerlily1975 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Thanks girls :hugs:
> 
> Tiger - the thing is, I'm not prepared to delay the IVF - I'm 38 next month and just not happy to leave things any longer so it's a balance between the risks of the meds and dealing with my anxiety / depression
> 
> I tried to make an appt at the dr's and the next routine one they could offer me was 2 weeks today - not an option! :growlmad: So I have to phone at 2pm every day until I manage to get through quickly enough to get one of the 4 appts they release on the day - guess that's a job for hubby as he isn't working and I will be in class teaching at that time :shrug:
> 
> I hope you managed to get an appointment with the GP. It's insane now, it's almost like you have to predict when you're going to be ill so that you can make your appointment two weeks in advance! Ker-razeee!
> 
> I think KB38 is right on the money. I know where you are coming from with the age (I'm 37 in June, so my clock is ticking loud and clear), but do you feel up to going through IVF right now? If you took, say, a two-month break so that you can be in the best shape for a pregnancy, would that benefit you in the long-run?
> 
> You will get there, but you have to help yourself too, hun.
> 
> Big :hugs:
> 
> C xxClick to expand...

Thanks Tiger - I understand what you're saying. I've been in much worse places with my depression before and I wouldn't have felt I could face the FET then, but this is very different - I don't feel like this needs to stop me - it's hard to explain. I just need to break the cycle of thoughts - maybe something the GP suggested might help - more about that in the next post.

Will also give this rescue remedy a go - I feel like I just need something short term to give these thoughts a good kicking!


----------



## Deb111

Well I've just been to see the GP - unfortunately our wonderful GP left several months ago and I saw a locum today - just a shame he's not the replacement because he was lovely. Spent over 15 mins with me and took it all on board. Discussed what I'd tried before and I explained that counselling had never done much for me and the fact that you have to wait 6 weeks minumum for an appt that is then in work time is just no use to me.

We talked about medication and he said whilst the ones I was on before were probably the least harmful, if it was his wife; he'd advise her not to take the risk and that if anything went wrong, I would always blame the medication even if it wasn't the cause.

He's given me an online CBT website - I'm guessing it will cost money, but it's a different way of doing things so might be worth a try. Apparently there's programmes you can work through so will have a look later

Not feeling too bad today so I guess it's easy to feel ok with what he said - will have to see how it goes


----------



## WANBMUM

wibble wobble said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> We got our final results today.
> It's not good.
> I will never have my husbands biological children :( It is inoperable.
> Numb and heartbroken. :(
> 
> Really sorry for you sending you huge virtual :hugs::hugs: It's really hard to be told your never going to have your husbands baby. Give yourself plenty of time to grieve the baby that wont be. Take some time to talk through your feelings together,the worst thing you can do is keep it all inside. I did this for 2 weeks and ended up having a meltdown in work. :hugs:
> 
> Counselling may not be for you,but it helped me and mine to understand how we were feeling and why we were feeling that way.Click to expand...

Thanks wibble wobble. It is a very strange feeling. counselling is something I am definitely considering. I've never been before so I am slightly apprehensive , i suppose talking to a stranger. I will see how we are.


----------



## WANBMUM

silverbell said:


> Can't catch up right now, ladies, but just posting to say we were given the results of DH's microTESE a couple of hours ago ...
> 
> Unfortunately he has zero sperm. :cry:

Oh silverbell, I am so sorry to hear this. Hope your doing ok?

Have they given you next steps?

sending you lots of :cry:


----------



## WANBMUM

Deb, I am happy to hear you visited your GP's office. I think its truly a decision you need to make regarding taking the medication, don't let anybody talk you out of it, if you really feel you need it. Only you know. At least you got some good advice.
You have had alot of worrying incidents happen, so you are bound to feel anxious, I get the same way about my dog being at home alone, all the what if's. He sounds like a great little fellow :)


----------



## WANBMUM

I must say, we had had a tough week dealing with the reality, but I know we will get there.

For the Donor girls. I have a couple of basic questions (i mean really basic and probably silly)
Initially, what was your first step once you decide this is what you want to do? 
What tests will I have to carry out? Do i do these before hand or do they carry them out at the fertility clinic?
What is the difference between IUI & IVF? in relation to donor sperm (am I right in saying, IUI is if I am perfectly healthy?)
Also have you any tips for me? What to think about etc?
A personal question? Does the hurt subside when you have a plan in place (im sure it will never go but at what point do you move on and get excited -or does this happen)


----------



## snd80

WANBMUM said:


> I must say, we had had a tough week dealing with the reality, but I know we will get there.
> 
> For the Donor girls. I have a couple of basic questions (i mean really basic and probably silly)
> 
> A personal question? Does the hurt subside when you have a plan in place (im sure it will never go but at what point do you move on and get excited -or does this happen)

It still hurts knowing that I will never have my hubby's bio baby, but the excitement of having a baby period has begun to overcome those feelings. My hubby is even getting excited now, which in turn makes me even more excited! At first he was very apprehensive, more of a "you want it more than me, so I will do it just to make you happy", but now that time is getting closer, he is always talking about it, coming up w/ different names for it, wanting to collect valuable things to pass down to it, and now wanting to go ahead and buy a crib and start stocking up on diapers. (I put a hault on the crib and diapers for fear of jinxing things though.) Don't get me wrong, I still get sad and very bitter from time to time, but it comes and goes, and I figure it will continue until I do get pg.


----------



## raelynn

snd80 said:


> Good luck CM! Thinking of you!
> 
> Tiger-How are you holding up? :hugs: Doing good here. Getting impatient! LOL! So ready for May to be here already!!!!! :wohoo:
> 
> Hope everyone else is having a great day!

Snd - I'm with you here! Time has never seemed to move so slow. I can't wait until May when we can get this show on the road!


----------



## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> Apologies for just cutting and pasting from my journal, but would value your opinions girls ...
> 
> I'm really, really struggling girls - I think I need to go back onto my anti-depressants but am terrified of it causing a problem for any potential baby. Apparently, the one I'm on raises the risk of congenital heart defects from 1% to 2%. Plus it owuld mean I wouldn't be able to breastfeed.
> 
> I am very low right now, but what seems to be really bad is my anxiety. It's worse than it's ever been. In the past it has just reared up a bit when my depression is bad, but this time it is horrendous. Maybe I need anxiety medication, not anti-depressants - who knows?
> 
> The thing is, when my anxiety starts usually, it is an excessive worry about something that is going on in my life at that time - it's not pleasant but it's manageable.
> 
> The trouble is, at the moment, so many horrible things have happened that the excessive anxiety about them all is bordering on unmanageable.
> 
> My mum's not been well and has been having some tests - it's most likely nothing serious, but they're just having trouble getting to the bottom of it - I'm very worried about her.
> 
> Terry's friend dying in his sleep like that has made me think it can happen to any of us and is just frightening.
> 
> Our next door neighbours had an attempted break-in one evening when they were in the house just before christmas and I've just started getting over the anxiety of that and I wake up this morning to find a police care a few doors away - they targetted another neighbour last night, when they were all asleep upstairs - went stright over their security gate and forced the FRONT window. I don't know if they disturbed them or if they got in yet but now I'm terrified. We always thought Finn was a deterrent but they have a small dog too.
> 
> And when Terry's out driving with any work he does manage to get, I'm anxious about soemthing happening to him, especially when he's doing long distances.
> 
> I has made me anxious to be at home, anxious to be out of the house and I suddenly had this horrible thought come into my head when I was at work today that they might get in and do something horrible to finn. I was almost in tears at my desk at work and I can't get these thoughts and images out of my head.
> 
> It makes me feel, and probably sound, like I'm going mad
> 
> I guess I have to weight up the risks of being on medication with the prospect of going through IVF and maybe a pregnancy with this high level of anxiety

Oh Deb, I feel for you so much. I have struggled with depression & anxiety since my early 20s so know how tough it can be. Personally, I made sure that as I approached trying to get pregnant that I got a referral to a specialist psychiatrist (up until that point my GP had always managed it) to make sure that I was managing it as best I could. She was great & we decided that going through IVF is stressful/devastating enough without adding further depression & anxiety. (I think even people who previously have not struggled with depression/anxiety will likely have some problems when undergoing IVF). We agreed that basically me being medication free was not an option, so she took me off my previous meds (which were category D teratogenic) & put me on good 'ol Zoloft. I have had a few friends take this throughout pregnancy & I understand that it is reasonably safe. Whilst it may not be as good as the other meds I was on, it is doing a reasonable job at managing the worst of the depression & anxiety (I hate to think how I would be without them, this azoos path is tough!). 

In the end, it is a decision that only you (& Terry) can make. All I know is that you sound like you are suffering here. I know that like us money is an issue, we spoke to our GP who gave us a referral to a free psych (Do they have those in the UK?) & she has been great. Glad you went & talked to your GP & you must follow the path of least regret for you. Please do not be too hard on yourself, this is such a normal thing to be struggling with, especially given all that you have had happen lately. Praying for your Mum too. Big :hugs:


----------



## MJ73

CM, thinking of you today hun xx


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm just heading to bed, but wanted to C&P an email I sent to a friend tonight. I'll be back for personals tomorrow.

Quick version:
He is concerned with my LH being high. Prolactin is borderline. Cycle day 3, 8 and 21 blood work to be done. If prolactin is high, I need it drawn 3 days in a row and a MRI.

Chris needs hormonal testing and genetic testing. The genetic test results take 4 months to come in. We have to wait for them before seeing the urologist. So, if the hormones are off, we can be pretty sure it's a production issue. If the genetic tests are off, they will not do IVF with us since he would pass the sterility onto his offspring. So, in late May, we will see the RE again and then wait 4 weeks to see the urologist.

They didn't even talk about IVF yet. We may not be candidates. If we do, the fall is the earliest we would have our ducks in a row.

She said the donor sperm is so common, she is sure we know someone conceived that way, we just don't know it. She said they do a ton of those.

So, we have a long wait ahead of us. I knew the first RE appointment would be bittersweet, but I didn't expect it to be so hard.


----------



## snd80

Well, this ball is fixing to start rolling hard on my end! :happydance: 

I called and made my appt. for 2/6 to talk to my local dr. about upping my metformin dose since I've seemed to have developed an immunity to my current dosage (my cycles and ov are going off track again) and get my referal for the hsg test, which should fall either the end of Feb or beginning of March (depending on how my cycle will be this next go round). I've read stories of the hsg test messing with your cycles the few months following.... so if all goes well, I should do my trial run with clomid and CD21 bloods in April and be ready for the actual IUI in May! I liked to have let time get away from me with everything else going on in my world! But I got this! Hopefully it will start making time fly by faster! Now to tackle this weight hard!!!!

The Special K Challenge is a challenge for sure!!! I stay so darn hungry!!!! It says you can fill up on fruits and veggies anytime you get hungry, but I get so hungry that I just eat and eat and eat on them, and then think "is this really helping?" I ate a half a bag of baby carrots yesterday in one sitting. No ranch with them, but still. I read that the Special K stuff is high in GI, and with this metformin, you are suppost to eat low GI foods, so maybe it is defeating the whole purpose?! Who knows! But something has got to give! 

Hope everyone is having a good day!


----------



## Deb111

Wanbmum - I think that it's a stranger is exactly why it 'can' really help - as long as you feel at ease with the counsellor, I found it so much easier to talk to someone who was totally detached - you can be totally honest without feeling like you're blaming anyone or worrying people (I know I felt I couldn't be totally honest with how bad I was feeling even with my family because they would've been worried sick)

It's worth a try - mine was amazing!


----------



## Deb111

Thanks MJ - I'm feeling a little better today, but I am keeping an eye on things.

I sat down and thought about it last night and the one thing that has sent me into major panic is these break-ins and I guess that's fairly rational to an extent. I think the reason it's been so unbearable is because of everything else bubbling under the surface.

So we're busy getting proactive - we already have some lighting at the front, but we have had an LED security light and camera delivered today and I made an enquiry with our local neighbourhood police last night about neighbourhood watch and they called round today when I was at work, so I need to call them back and we're going to look at setting up a neighbourhood watch thing. People round here seem keen but it looks like any organising will come down to me. I really don't want anymore on my plate, but someone has to do it and from what they told Terry today, there is very little to do - they seem to do a lot of it. It will mainly be letting people know if the police inform me of asny issues in the local area and Terry can talk for England so I'll just send him round the houses :haha:


----------



## snd80

Thinking of SB today. Haven't seen her on here since her awful news. Hope she is doing well... :hugs: if you are lurking quietly!


----------



## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I'm just heading to bed, but wanted to C&P an email I sent to a friend tonight. I'll be back for personals tomorrow.
> 
> Quick version:
> He is concerned with my LH being high. Prolactin is borderline. Cycle day 3, 8 and 21 blood work to be done. If prolactin is high, I need it drawn 3 days in a row and a MRI.
> 
> Chris needs hormonal testing and genetic testing. The genetic test results take 4 months to come in. We have to wait for them before seeing the urologist. So, if the hormones are off, we can be pretty sure it's a production issue. If the genetic tests are off, they will not do IVF with us since he would pass the sterility onto his offspring. So, in late May, we will see the RE again and then wait 4 weeks to see the urologist.
> 
> They didn't even talk about IVF yet. We may not be candidates. If we do, the fall is the earliest we would have our ducks in a row.
> 
> She said the donor sperm is so common, she is sure we know someone conceived that way, we just don't know it. She said they do a ton of those.
> 
> So, we have a long wait ahead of us. I knew the first RE appointment would be bittersweet, but I didn't expect it to be so hard.

I think these appts often feel like one step forward and two steps back :hugs:

Hopefully the prolcatin is nothing to worry about - hubby had that with one of his blood tests - it was about 5 times what it should have been if I remember rightly but 3 days later it was fine - it's affected a ot by any signs of stress apparently xx


----------



## Deb111

snd80 said:


> Thinking of SB today. Haven't seen her on here since her awful news. Hope she is doing well... :hugs: if you are lurking quietly!

She's posting the odd post in her journal snd - they're obviously grieving and finding it all incredibly hard, but they're strong and are getting through it slowly x


----------



## wibble wobble

WANBMUM said:


> I must say, we had had a tough week dealing with the reality, but I know we will get there.
> 
> For the Donor girls. I have a couple of basic questions (i mean really basic and probably silly)
> Initially, what was your first step once you decide this is what you want to do?
> What tests will I have to carry out? Do i do these before hand or do they carry them out at the fertility clinic?
> What is the difference between IUI & IVF? in relation to donor sperm (am I right in saying, IUI is if I am perfectly healthy?)
> Also have you any tips for me? What to think about etc?
> A personal question? Does the hurt subside when you have a plan in place (im sure it will never go but at what point do you move on and get excited -or does this happen)

I'm in the Uk (I'm being treated at the Hewitt Centre in Liverpool womens) This is 'my donor journey' so far. (Everything's been done at the fertility clinic) First off we both had to go to a counsellor. I had blood tests on day 2 (amh,rubella,fsh,lh)then again on day 21 (progesterone). I've just had a donor screening blood test (Hiv,cmv,hepatitis b&c,karotyping,cystic fibrosis and something else that I can't quite remember) I would have had a hsg only my consultant has said that I'm best off doing divf as my amh isn't brilliant, so no need to see if my tubes are patent. There was loads of different forms to fill in (legal responsibility to the child/child protection/donor anonimity etc) I have to go back in roughly 2 months for the screening result and then I'll have to get an appointment with the donor co ordinator

I found out in oct that we'd need to use a donor. It took maybe 4 to 6 weeks for the worst of the pain to go (for us to start accepting it properly) I think there will always be some hurt there,that I wont be getting pregnant naturally by hubby,but you have to move on from it if you want to have a baby. I wouldn't say I'm excited about the treatment yet, but then it doesn't feel like it's ever going to happen at the minute.... we're just running through the hfea checklist of to-do's 


IUI is where they put sperm inside you,IVF is treatment with daily needles so for long (down regging and stimming) having your eggs collected and fertilised in a dish then they put 1 or 2 back in.


----------



## wibble wobble

CanadianMaple said:


> I'm just heading to bed, but wanted to C&P an email I sent to a friend tonight. I'll be back for personals tomorrow.
> 
> Quick version:
> He is concerned with my LH being high. Prolactin is borderline. Cycle day 3, 8 and 21 blood work to be done. If prolactin is high, I need it drawn 3 days in a row and a MRI.
> 
> Chris needs hormonal testing and genetic testing. The genetic test results take 4 months to come in. We have to wait for them before seeing the urologist. So, if the hormones are off, we can be pretty sure it's a production issue. If the genetic tests are off, they will not do IVF with us since he would pass the sterility onto his offspring. So, in late May, we will see the RE again and then wait 4 weeks to see the urologist.
> 
> They didn't even talk about IVF yet. We may not be candidates. If we do, the fall is the earliest we would have our ducks in a row.
> 
> She said the donor sperm is so common, she is sure we know someone conceived that way, we just don't know it. She said they do a ton of those.
> 
> So, we have a long wait ahead of us. I knew the first RE appointment would be bittersweet, but I didn't expect it to be so hard.

It's so hard having to do lots of waiting I really can sympathise with you there, it's been 10 months since we started out with all the tests and it could still be 12 months until we are matched to a donor (we're nhs patients and our clinic has a shortage and we don't have the funds to buy our own sperm):hugs:


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## moonhippie

New girl :)
Me:30 DH: 30 He was diagnosed with Maturation Arrest Azoospermia last November. All genetic testing came back normal, but rare mature sperm were found on his testicular biopsies. We opted not to do TESA as they told us it would be rare if any mature sperm good enough for freezing and later ICSI IVF could be found. We asked his brother to be a donor, but after testing he came back with a super low count and horrible motility. After speaking with our fertility dr we opted to use Anonymous Donor Sperm to have our dream baby.
Deaf: My hubby is on Clomid right now. 50mg a day. It is quite pricey as generic is not available in Canada right now. His Endocrinologist put him on it as a last ditch effort to see if his testicles just needed a punch to get them finishing the production of his spermatocytes. So far after 6 months of being on it there are still no sperm in his ejaculate. However, we were dealing with some ED issues. His testosterone levels before clomid were 28 which is low normal now however it over 60 and the ED...is no longer an issue LOL!!! Our Ob/Gyn thinks he can probably stay on a low dose with routine bloodwork, but we will have to wait and see what the Endocrinologist says in April when he has his next visit with him. We were hoping to get him down to either half that dose or half that dose every other day and see how his testosterone levels do. 
Where we are at with ttcing...we are doing at home AI with frozen semen through a sperm bank. We started in may 2011, conceived our second cycle in june, but lost it in august. we took a few cycles off and started again in November. We are currently in the middle od doing our last AI before moving on to IUI's with our dr. Babydust everyone.


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## mumanddad

Welcome to the group hun and sorrh you are going through journey, you will find some greag support from this group.

Sorry i wont be on now for a few days they are going to try induce the baby today but he keeps turning :(


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## silverbell

Aww, thank you for thinking of me, snd, and for answering for me, Deb.

I'm OK. Doing a lot better than I was earlier in the week that's for sure. DH is doing amazingly.

We had our gynae appointment today to discuss referral for DIUI. Here's a cut and paste from my journal just now:

_Oh my goodness.

I'm floored.

I had absolutely no idea that IUI wouldn't be funded in our area ... none at all. What a shock I thought we'd have to pay for the donor sperm, but not for the actual IUI. I'm sure I read somewhere that you get 6 tries, but apparently that's the recommended guide, but the South Strategic Health Authority does not offer any IUI funding. I honestly had no idea. I feel stupid now. 

Gynae guy is going to join forces with our GP to write to commissioning and get them to look at our case and see if they'll make an exception, but he did say that there are absolutely no guarantees and it'll take at least 3 months to get an answer. When they booked my follow-up appointment to be reviewed in 4 months they booked it for .... wait for it .... 1 June. Unbelievable. Exactly 1 year to the day we found out about DH's 0 SA. 

DH and I have told him to go ahead with the letter just in case.

In the meantime it looks like we'll be going privately ... and probably having to get a loan _

So, does anybody in the UK know how much it costs (really roughly) to get donor sperm imported? Only I know that the waiting lists for donor sperm can be really, really long here in the UK. I keep reading 12 to 18 months everywhere. I know we can't wait that long. We just can't.

Thanks in advance!

Hope you're all OK and I will catch up soon, I promise.


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## snd80

silverbell said:


> Aww, thank you for thinking of me, snd, and for answering for me, Deb.
> 
> So, does anybody in the UK know how much it costs (really roughly) to get donor sperm imported? Only I know that the waiting lists for donor sperm can be really, really long here in the UK. I keep reading 12 to 18 months everywhere. I know we can't wait that long. We just can't.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Hope you're all OK and I will catch up soon, I promise.

Life can be so cruel! Can't :hugs: you enough!

I'm not from the UK, but we are going through xytex.com. The have an international link on their site too. Might be worth checking into! Stay strong my friend!


----------



## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> I had absolutely no idea that IUI wouldn't be funded in our area ... none at all. What a shock I thought we'd have to pay for the donor sperm, but not for the actual IUI. I'm sure I read somewhere that you get 6 tries, but apparently that's the recommended guide, but the South Strategic Health Authority does not offer any IUI funding. I honestly had no idea. I feel stupid now.
> 
> Gynae guy is going to join forces with our GP to write to commissioning and get them to look at our case and see if they'll make an exception, but he did say that there are absolutely no guarantees and it'll take at least 3 months to get an answer. When they booked my follow-up appointment to be reviewed in 4 months they booked it for .... wait for it .... 1 June. Unbelievable. Exactly 1 year to the day we found out about DH's 0 SA.
> 
> DH and I have told him to go ahead with the letter just in case.
> 
> In the meantime it looks like we'll be going privately ... and probably having to get a loan :nope:[/I]
> 
> So, does anybody in the UK know how much it costs (really roughly) to get donor sperm imported? Only I know that the waiting lists for donor sperm can be really, really long here in the UK. I keep reading 12 to 18 months everywhere. I know we can't wait that long. We just can't.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Hope you're all OK and I will catch up soon, I promise.

Hi silverbell I had a look at DS prices when we first got our diagnosis, the european sperm bank was cheapest but even those prices were massive. For 6 vials of sperm,delivery,pregnancy slot etc it was going to cost around £3000, you could make it cheaper by ordering less sperm (but what if you wanted another baby,would you be ok with another donor you'd have to pay for another pregnancy slot... some clinics you can share delivery costs with other patients to make it slightly cheaper) 

Do you know which clinic you'd be having the iui with? It might be worth emailing them (or ask on forums) how long the wait is. Some clinics have no wait at all.... I'm just one of the unlucky ones that has to wait.:hugs:


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## Deb111

Well I've started spotting this afternoon, so will be here tomorrow. Looks like MFS clinic were bang on with the scan - I'm only on CD 25 today so if CD1 is tomorrow that's only a 24 day cycle very unusual for me - no wonder we missed ovulation!

So, scan is booked for Tues 8am Had a panic about it earlier - the money, just the one embryo in the freezer and time running out 

Had an reply from my consultant today

_"Debbie, Sorry for delay.
I would stick to a natural cycle.
It is always sensible to use ovulation kits from mid cycle but perhaps the small size of the follicle on the scan on the 13th was what stopped anybody suggesting them.

Let me know when you start and I will keep an eye on the scans myself.
Best Wishes
James"_


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## MJ73

*Deb*, so glad you are feeling a bit better. Interesting that you've had such a short cycle. I always find that stress messes with my cycles big time. So you're going straight into the next cycle, keeping FX for you both :hugs:

*SB*, good to see you back:hugs:. That sucks that there is no funding for your donor IUI, that must be so tough on top of everything else. FX that your Dr's letter will carry some weight for you guys.

Hi *Wibble*, how you going with all the waiting? Hang in there.

*SND*, thankyou so much for sharing so elequently about yours & hubby's feelings/journeys to donor. Even though we're not at that point yet (our specialist has told us that because of DH's small testicular volume we only have one TESE left) I can see my DH & I going through the same process. Accepting that donor is a definite possiblity for us.

Welcome :wave:*Moonhippie*, wishing you all the best with your at home IA, FX for you guys.

*CM*, :hugs: for you with all the waiting. That's basically where we're at at the moment. Waiting, waiting, waiting.

*AFM*, just feeling a bit down today. Trying to decide what is the best way forward for us & feeling time tick, tick, ticking away (I'm 38). Knowing we can't make any decisions till we can see our RE on Feb 15th, feels like forever away (we've been waiting since Dec 10th last year). :hugs: for all.


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## Deb111

Sending :hugs: MJ - I will be 38 in 2 weeks so I'm with you on feeling like the clock's ticking! xx


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## Deb111

Well I've manageds to lose 3lbs this week :happydance: and that's with :witch: arriving yesterday too! :thumbup: 

How's everyone else doing? xx


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## deafgal01

That's great news,Deb! Keep up the good work...

I haven't managed to lose a single pound. :dohh: I've been maintaining it this week though. :shrug: No gain is good. I'm still waiting for AF to show... She's not due for another eh, i think 7 days. Not sure, I'll have to look at a calendar and figure it out.


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## raelynn

Congrats on the weight loss Deb! I'm down 2.5 lbs this week after gaining back the 2 I lost back on week 1.


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## wibble wobble

I've lost 2 lbs again this week :)


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## Deb111

Well done WW and raelynn :thumbup: Maintaning is good too Deafgal :thumbup: xx


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## snd80

Good job on the weight loss girls!!!! :thumbup: I weighed Fri and have lost 4 lbs since 1/15! (well, that includes the gainback I had, but now lost) I am now 2 lbs lighter than I was in Nov when I went to Jackson! :happydance: But who knows what has happened since Fri! LOL!

Hope everyone is having a good day!


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## silverbell

Well done on all the weight loss, girlies. :thumbup:

Just a tiny update - the private clinic couldn't tell me how long the list would be. They said they can't really say without having seen me and discussed what we want etc. DH and I have decided that if we have to wait longer than June then we will be using the European Sperm Bank and getting sperm imported. We just cannot wait any longer to be getting on with things and properly 'trying' if you see what I mean.

Thanks for all the answers to my questions :hugs:


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## Deb111

Great news on the weightloss this week snd xx


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## SunUp

Hey all...
I would really appreciate some thoughts/prayers/vibes this way. We are awaiting DH's genetic results.
I will keep you all in my thoughts! Hoping for lots of baby dust to each of you!


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## deafgal01

Sun- wish granted. Sending lots of thoughts and prayers to your direction. Hope for good news for you.


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## snd80

Sun- Prayers sent your way!!!! xxx


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## snd80

On a different note, got some good news my way yesterday! The sheriff called me to tell me they solved our home breaking and entering case from Nov. and arrested the guy that done it! :happydance: They retrieved our PS3 and found out that our guns and safe are in a creek and will send the diving team out this week to retrieve them for us! I told my hubby it would be AWESOME if our $ was still in the safe, but I doubt it!!! But then again I would have never thought they would have caught the guy that done it either, so here's to wishful thinking! LOL! 

Hope everyone has a great day!!!


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## deafgal01

Snd- that's great news. Hopefully the money's still in the safe.. Pretty please, let that be a miracle... :hugs: Finally I'm glad they caught someone.


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## Deb111

Thinking of you SunUp :hugs:

Fab news snd :happydance: xx


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## snd80

So, I talked to investigator when I picked up our PS3 and he said the guy confessed that he pryed open the safe w/ a crow bar and threw it in a river empty, so no money left! But... if/when he gets outta prison and is on probation, he will have to pay us restitution until it is all paid back. So I might not get back all my $ in one lump, but by the time he starts paying hopefully we will be putting it into a college fund for our little one! :thumbup:


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## Deb111

That's good :thumbup:

I think the british justice system could learn a few things from the US!


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## deafgal01

Oooh, hope they really keep to that... That'll be a nice little college fund you can start for the baby when you have one!


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## MJ73

Hi Girls. 
SO proud of all of you who have lost or maintained weight:thumbup:. I still haven't got back to the gym, or gone walking. I just can't seem to get motivated. I'm so annoyed at myself, I mean what could be better motivation than having a baby? Yet, I'd rather sit around than get out & exercise. I'm so frustrated with myself. I've managed to maintain, but that's not good enough. Must get off my butt.

SND, that is such great news:happydance: about them catching the guy who broke into your place. I hope you will get all your money back & that this guy is forced to make some monetary restitution. 

Sun, sending prayers your way:hugs:


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## MJ73

Actually girls, I could do with some advice. DH & I had a difficult chat today about donor sperm & I'd love some feedback from you gals. (Sorry this is a bit long-winded, there is just so much to explain.) I am just a little concerned about them finding sperm when we do our next cycle. Last fresh cycle they had to do 16 needle aspirations & then they finally found sperm through surgical removal. DH still gets pain and is really nervous about having the procedure again (last time he passed out just at the thought of it:shrug:). I would like us to have some back up sperm to use just in case they cannot find any of DH's (I don't want to waste my precious eggies, I know they can freeze, but defrost success is rare). Our clinic will only use a known donor & we have had a friend very kindly offer to donate. At our clinic it will be at least a four month wait between our friend donating & the clinic releasing the sperm for use (they do a bunch of tests on the donor etc), so if we are going to down this path then I would like to decide soon. The donor & his wife have to go through counselling with us, so even once we get up to that point it may not go through, they may back out. But DH has major issues with using a known donor. I can see advantages to known & anonymous donor.

However, if we decide to go down the anon donor route then we will have to change clinics. I imagine that given my age & health issues that they will want to do IVF/ICSI, not IUI. Anyway, it is a very emotional issue for DH & I just see him retreat back into his shell everytime we talk about these things. I would just love some feedback as it seems that time is ticking away. We're running out of money & therefore options. As I see it we have four options. Give up on using DH's sperm & change clinics & use unknown donor; Go ahead with our full stim cycle in April, with no backup sperm at our current clinic; Use our known donor & have backup sperm for a stim cycle around August. Or just use our frosty & accept that if we get pregnant that it will probably be our only one. (Our RE wants us to do a stim cycle, to get more embies, otherwise if I did get pregnant with our frosty, I would likely be over 40 before we would be able to do another stim cycle= much lower chance of more than one child. I am very aware that statistically our chances at IVF drop from 15% per cycle now, to less than 5% once I turn 40.)

What do you all think about our options? About known Vs Anon donor? Changing clinics? Am I being silly worrying about my age?

I hope this all makes sense. DH got tears in his eyes today & said. "I thought making babies was meant to be easy. I thought that by this stage in our marriage you'd be pregnant with our second :nope:" My poor love, I hate to see him suffering like this. Thanks for listening girls. One of _those_ days here...


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh MJ... How I wish I had some piece of advice. I'm still new to this whole journey so I haven't really crossed that bridge where I have to discuss the option of using donor sperms at all with DH.

It's necessary to have a talk about the options possible. Hopefully your man will come around soon enough and help you decide the best route for you two to take. I don't think it's silly to be worried about your age being a factor here- especially considering you're getting closer to 40. :hugs: That being said, it's not really impossible for you to be able to get pregnant and carry a baby to full term (although not without risks and lots of close monitoring).

I can see where our men would prefer to use unknown donors as opposed to someone we know. I rather would use someone we know- as it'd be easier for medical purposes should there arise (GOD FORBID) but arise a need for some genes or blood or something from the donor to help the child/baby survive something. :shrug: That's just my thinking. Maybe it's a silly thing to think about/consider. :shrug:

If you change clinics- how long would the wait be? I hope it doesn't really take too long if that has to happen. :wacko: I'd say your best chances are go with the friend who's willing to donate, but that in itself is a risk either way- and it also depends on if your man would be willing to accept that.


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## silverbell

Sun - thinking lots of positive thoughts for you.

Snd - great news on recovering the PS3, though I'm sorry to hear about the cash but at least it sounds like you'll get it back at some point or another.

MJ - sorry I have no advice, but it sounds like there are some very difficult decisions to make. I really hope your DH can come to a solid decision so you have something to work towards. Sending you lots and lots of :hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

MJ73 said:


> Actually girls, I could do with some advice. DH & I had a difficult chat today about donor sperm & I'd love some feedback from you gals. (Sorry this is a bit long-winded, there is just so much to explain.) I am just a little concerned about them finding sperm when we do our next cycle. Last fresh cycle they had to do 16 needle aspirations & then they finally found sperm through surgical removal. DH still gets pain and is really nervous about having the procedure again (last time he passed out just at the thought of it:shrug:). I would like us to have some back up sperm to use just in case they cannot find any of DH's (I don't want to waste my precious eggies, I know they can freeze, but defrost success is rare). Our clinic will only use a known donor & we have had a friend very kindly offer to donate. At our clinic it will be at least a four month wait between our friend donating & the clinic releasing the sperm for use (they do a bunch of tests on the donor etc), so if we are going to down this path then I would like to decide soon. The donor & his wife have to go through counselling with us, so even once we get up to that point it may not go through, they may back out. But DH has major issues with using a known donor. I can see advantages to known & anonymous donor.
> 
> However, if we decide to go down the anon donor route then we will have to change clinics. I imagine that given my age & health issues that they will want to do IVF/ICSI, not IUI. Anyway, it is a very emotional issue for DH & I just see him retreat back into his shell everytime we talk about these things. I would just love some feedback as it seems that time is ticking away. We're running out of money & therefore options. As I see it we have four options. Give up on using DH's sperm & change clinics & use unknown donor; Go ahead with our full stim cycle in April, with no backup sperm at our current clinic; Use our known donor & have backup sperm for a stim cycle around August. Or just use our frosty & accept that if we get pregnant that it will probably be our only one. (Our RE wants us to do a stim cycle, to get more embies, otherwise if I did get pregnant with our frosty, I would likely be over 40 before we would be able to do another stim cycle= much lower chance of more than one child. I am very aware that statistically our chances at IVF drop from 15% per cycle now, to less than 5% once I turn 40.)
> 
> What do you all think about our options? About known Vs Anon donor? Changing clinics? Am I being silly worrying about my age?
> 
> I hope this all makes sense. DH got tears in his eyes today & said. "I thought making babies was meant to be easy. I thought that by this stage in our marriage you'd be pregnant with our second :nope:" My poor love, I hate to see him suffering like this. Thanks for listening girls. One of _those_ days here...

Your poor hubby MJ - I want to give him a big hug. I can understand where you are coming from, you almost have too many options. 
I'll try to give my opinion, but it is just that. Can I just say, that it sickens me for all of us that finances can have such an impact on our decisions, as if this road is not tough enough. but I guess that is the reality. 
Taking finances out of it, I would look at what is important to you 2. Does your hubby have issues around actually knowing the donor? Is this known donor going to have an active part in the baby's life? What legalities are you going to set up? I could see where your hubby, or any man in his situation is coming from in relation to knowing the donor because of the above questions. For us we have decided to use a donor (we have no other choice except for adoption) - so far we plan to tell our child, with the option of when it is 18, to find out more, ie:non-anonymous. We made this decision together, however, if my OH said to me, I wouldnt be able to cope with the baby knowing or finding out, I would really have to make a decision based on what my hubby would be comfortable with, because of the circumstances. Sorry I believe I am waffling :) but what I mean is, I think it is important you listen to your hubbys concerns and if he is not 100% comfortable with it, I wouldnt go ahead unless he was - to save future issues.
In relation to your age, I understand your concerns, we are told the concerns all the time but, just to let you know, my cousin is 16 wks pregnant with her first, she is 41, through several attempts at IVF, so it can and will happen. I've nearly forgotten the question I have waffled on so much :nope:

Ok my opinion is, make sure your hubby is 100% sure about the known donor, don't do it unless he is. 
Would it be any harm to contact an alternative clinic, explain your situation, perhaps they can just pick up from where you are, it might be easier than you think? I hope I have made sense. sending u lots of :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Oh MJ - sending you and your hubby big hugs :hugs: My hubby wont even consider donor sperm so these issues are not one we've ever needed to discuss.

Could you get a counselling session at your clinic to discuss things and get some feedback from them on the legal implications etc of your different options? xx


----------



## snd80

:brat: Today has been one of "those days"! I kid you not, I have had 10 preggos come through my work making me feel like they were smearing it in my face, walking around the store rubbing their bumps like "Look Nikki, I am pregnant and you aren't! Haha!"... my hubby called and I told him why I was so down. He told me not to worry about it, that ours was coming soon enough and wouldn't be "a dollar store baby", that ours would be top of the line and straight off the showroom floor! LOL! He was trying to make me feel better, bless him! But you _all_ know how much it hurts. Men can never really understand how we feel in situations like this... what a day! :nope:


----------



## snd80

MJ- sending you and your hubby :hugs:! 

My hubby refuses to use a known donor. He said he didn't want the donor around after it was all said and done.... and I can understand! It is already one blow to not be able to father a child, let alone have the one that can be in the picture too. 

Keep strong my friend! Your answer will come soon enough, one way or another! :hugs:


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## Deb111

Sorry you've had a tough day snd - hubby tries to be positive too when things like that happen - he tells me the fact that yet another friend has announced a pregnancy has no impact on our chances - it's not like now they're pregnant; it means we can't be anymore - but I get where you're coming from - it's a kick in the teeth 

Big hugs :hugs:


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## deafgal01

:hugs: SND aw that sucks about having that many come into work. :shock: :hugs: Love what your man said to you though to cheer you up. :thumbup: Yep, the guys don't understand how hard we have it... :nope: We gotta deal with the emotions too on top of all of that.


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## snd80

Thanks girls! Hope today is a no-show for the preggos! :haha:

dg01- just noticed you are from the USA.... where from?


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## deafgal01

Snd, I'm up in the north- Indiana.


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## Sar187

Wow I missed a ton so while I read through everything personals are not going to be the greatest. 

Silverbell-so sorry you didn't have better news, I am glad you are starting to feel a little better and just know my thoughts are with you. 

SND-Glad you got some good news about them finding the guy that robbed you. 

Deb-Hoping things are starting to look up a little bit for you, I have dealt with depression on and off throughout my life and have found that things such as yoga and meditation can sometimes help just enough to make it bearable. 

MJ-I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time right now. It is such a tough decision to make. We actually decided against donor when DH and I were discussing our backup plan and decided we were more comfortable going with embryo adoption if either there was no sperm found or if we did 3 IVF cycles with no luck. We may still be looking at this option for future children depending on our success with any future IVF cycles. As to your situation, had we gone with donor I would have definitely wanted an anonymous donor. They can still make sure blood type matches your DH if you want it to, and most places do extensive testing on their donors, and I believe give you a full family history.

deafgal-Your Not too far from me, I'm in Northern IL. 

AFM-Just waiting for my next OB appointment antsy for it to be here. I've had almost no symptoms to speak of, except for occasional slight nausea, so I really can't wait to get another look at my baby to make sure its ok. I haven't had any bleeding or anything though either so that reassures me. My belly also is starting to expand a bit more, and my bloat from my swollen ovaries is slowly starting to shift and look more like the start of a baby belly. A little less than 2 weeks until my appointment!

Sorry to those of you missed I hope you are doing well! 
I know I saw a new name or 2, welcome to you!


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## snd80

Hey Sar! Good to see things are rolling along so well for you! We all can't wait to see if we are are going to have a "niece" or "nephew", cause you know we are all going to be it's "azoo aunties"! :haha:

So, can anyone recommend a good book to start reading in prep for when we do finally have our :baby:? I mean, I know the jist of caring for a baby, but I don't wanna be burning the phone up calling my mom or aunt everytime something happens and I don't know what to do! I plan on reading the "what to expect" when I do get pg., but me being me, I am always planning ahead!

Last night my SIL came for a visit and brought her 6 month old baby with her. My hubby was holding her and bouncing her around and she spit up all over him... it was soooo funny seeing his face! He was saying "Do something! Do something!!!!!" I couldn't for laughing sooo hard at him! I told him at least he got his first spit-up outta the way! :rofl: 

Hope everyone is having a great day!


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## deafgal01

:hi: Sar did not realize we are practically neighbors...pretty cool! Hope the scanshows baby is doing alright!

Snd- you are onto something. :dohh: azoo aunties :rofl: love that idea! Not sure about bay advice- they have series of what to expect from a one year old and so forth. :shrug:

Hope everyone else is doing alright. :hugs:


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## raelynn

Snd you sound like me. I think I am starting to drive hubby nuts with all my pre-planning. I want to have a plan for absolutely everything ahead of time and this limbo period right now is driving me nuts. I think that is so funny your hubby got to experience some of the mess that comes along with babies. I can't wait to see my hubby's first diaper change. He had issues when our dogs were puppies and went everywhere...should be interesting.

MJ - I feel for you on the rough decisions. I definitely see the point on wanting an anonymous donor though. I feel that if the tables were turned, I may resent if I knew the donor...knowing they could provide when I was unable too. Its silly but our emotions often are.

For all you US ladies, I'm in Maryland...don't know if any of you are close by.

Also, how did/are those of you who have already gone through some of the IVF work dealing with work? Did you tell your boss? I figure I'm going to have to since I work the early shift and doubt I'll be able to get the monitoring blood work done in time to get to work on time during rush hour.

Hope everyone else is doing well. Lots of hugs to everyone since I'm sure you're all just as anxious as me to finally get our little ones.


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## Sar187

snd-I love that azoo aunties. You still have awhile to wait to find out whether it will be a niece or nephew though as we are going to leave it as a surprise :). I can't really give any advice on good books to read i have gotten most of my experience through doing, as has DH, We both have much older brothers and sisters and were always the go to babysitters when our nieces and nephews were little, between the 2 of us we have 24 nieces and nephews. Have even watched them overnight before when really little so got to deal with that too. 

rae-I told my bosses I was doing IVF, We were having to drive almost an hour each way for appointments so I by the time we drove had the appt, and got back, I usually missed almost a half day of work. However there were some times I regretted I had told them, as I work in a male dominated environment and there were a few times they made stupid comments that really irritated me. They were very good about time off though, and it helped that I have a very relaxed work environment. I have known several women that have just told their bosses they have a medical condition to deal with that is going to require regular appointments if they didn't want to actually tell them they were doing IVF. I also found my failed IVF hard to deal with at work because they knew they were asking me if it worked and that can be hard sometimes. I think a lot depends on how you think it will be received and how comfortable you are giving your boss that information.


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## deafgal01

I don't think it'd be a problem telling my boss about me going thru IVF. She'd probably be one of the best people to understand what it takes actually- because she's a single mother and she bought a donor sperm (anonymous) and had that inserted in her- probably IUI I think... Not sure I didn't ask her for details related to that. Then again when the time comes around, I might not even tell her or anyone at work. I don't know yet. I will see when I cross that bridge- like if it happens during summertime, then I might not even bother saying a word. :shrug: One of the good things about working at a school... You have like 2 months off in summertime.


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## MJ73

Hi Girls,
I'm doing a bit better today, thanks for all the feedback/support. Hearing your opinions on known donor has given me a bit of insight into how DH might feel. After work yesterday I went & had a nice girly chat with one of my besties, so that was good for the soul & a bit of clarity, as is all the caring I've had from you girls. DH & I have decided just to have a break chatting about it till we see our Dr on Feb 15th; hopefully he can give us the cold hard truth on what he thinks our chances are of retrieving sperm.

*SND*, you always make me giggle with your stories & 'Azoo Aunties' is so cool:haha: We have a really good book in Aus called "Babies" by Dr Christopher Green. I have worked with kids aged 0-5 for 20+ years & I like his philosophy. There are SO many books out there & I think they all say something different, so good luck & in the end the best advice I give parents is to trust their own gut instinct.

*Sar,* so good to see you! It sounds like everything is moving along nicely. What joy for you & DH :happydance:

*raelynn*, I told my bosses & they were very supportive. I work as a nanny & start work at 7am & our clinic does testing between 7-9am so I felt like I had no choice but to tell them. I think it all depends upon the bosses, for me it would have caused more problems for my work environment _not_ to tell them.


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## MJ73

deafgal01 said:


> :hugs: Oh MJ... How I wish I had some piece of advice. I'm still new to this whole journey so I haven't really crossed that bridge where I have to discuss the option of using donor sperms at all with DH.
> 
> It's necessary to have a talk about the options possible. Hopefully your man will come around soon enough and help you decide the best route for you two to take. I don't think it's silly to be worried about your age being a factor here- especially considering you're getting closer to 40. :hugs: That being said, it's not really impossible for you to be able to get pregnant and carry a baby to full term (although not without risks and lots of close monitoring).
> 
> I can see where our men would prefer to use unknown donors as opposed to someone we know. I rather would use someone we know- as it'd be easier for medical purposes should there arise (GOD FORBID) but arise a need for some genes or blood or something from the donor to help the child/baby survive something. :shrug: That's just my thinking. Maybe it's a silly thing to think about/consider. :shrug:
> 
> If you change clinics- how long would the wait be? I hope it doesn't really take too long if that has to happen. :wacko: I'd say your best chances are go with the friend who's willing to donate, but that in itself is a risk either way- and it also depends on if your man would be willing to accept that.

Thanks Deafgal, There are definitely some advantages to a known donor. The waiting for appointments can be the hardest part of this. Thanks so much for your feedback hun:hugs:


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## deafgal01

MJ- the waiting part kills to be honest... It's all we ever do... Just wait and wait... I think the tests are all done so we're just now waiting to see what happens. I don't dare hope the medicine works in case it doesn't do the trick.

How are all of you wonderful ladies doing? Any updates on what is happening with y'alls?

At least while I'm waiting, I can keep busy with politics and school and work. :thumbup: My classes have me bugging my parents for answers in regards of "communication" (right now we're focused on language acquisition in English Linguistics). :haha: :dohh: But it's hard answers :dohh: but those I definitely need to hear because I had no idea exactly how much my parents sacrificed for me- I knew they sacrificed a lot but I didn't realize to what extent. :wacko: :shrug: Most of it's emotional and related to my childhood but it's all good... :thumbup:


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## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> Oh MJ - sending you and your hubby big hugs :hugs: My hubby wont even consider donor sperm so these issues are not one we've ever needed to discuss.
> 
> Could you get a counselling session at your clinic to discuss things and get some feedback from them on the legal implications etc of your different options? xx

Hey Deb, we had a counselling appt booked in yesterday, but had to cancel because we had to pick up my mum-in-law from hospital. How are things going for you? Just realised that you must be into the start of your FET cycle. Keeping everything crossed for you hun :hugs:


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## Deb111

I told the head teacher at work and the deputy head about the IVF. I just felt I couldn't be nipping out for all these appts and having to have someone cover my classes without explaining and I have to admit they have been great. Plus I have heard some stories about the effects of IVF meds and I needed them to know that if I felt unfit to be in charge of a class of kids; I would be going home.

I have wondered about telling other staff as people have started noticing I'm having some time off, but have only told a couple of close friends. It's not that I'm ashamed of it or mind them knowing, but I couldn't cope with the questions - 'any news yet?' 'did it work?' etc

You could always tell them you have some fertility problems and are having lots of tests and investigations. That way they know it's a sensitive issue, but wont be waiting for :bfp: or :bfn: results

AFM - day 7 scan today - all as should be - next scan Tues - time to start the opk's after last cycles mess!


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## raelynn

Good Luck Deb!

I'll probably tell my boss just so he knows about the time off and I'll have to tell my team something just so they don't resent me and think I'm slacking off but I have no idea what I'll tell them yet. I don't really have a problem telling them but again its the not wanting them asking about it all the time. When we told our family, we told them straight out that we didn't want to have to talk about it so we would approach them when we had any news.


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## Deb111

I'd just tell your team that you're having fertility testing - I'm sure they'd be sensitive enough to not ask any more xx


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## snd80

Good luck Deb!!!! xxxx

Hope everyone else is doing ok... I'll try to pop in when I can. Tax refund time has started at my work for me and have been super busy these past few days!!!! Hey! At least it keeps me from eating so much! LOL!


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## SunUp

Alright, so we go to the male urology fertility specialist in 2 weeks.
Should have all of our tests done by then.
Its a new kind of 2ww! Lol.
Oh how I am easily amused


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## raelynn

We see the urologist in about a week now SunUp. Good luck with your visit! TTC is just full of waiting isn't it? I'm finding it hard to remain patient.

On a positive note, we booked our first cruise today. We decided that we'd need a little TLC after the first round of IVF (whether it is successful or not)


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## SunUp

Good luck Raelynn! I just sent you a PM
Oh, and thats a GREAT idea about the cruise! I might do something similar, with tax money - I think a vaca is definitely needed.


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## Deb111

Wishing you both the best of luck for your upcoming appts :hugs:

It's just dawned on me that we're coming up to 2 yrs since the azoo diagnosis and still no baby :nope:


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## deafgal01

:hugs: oh Deb. hope this year will change that for you. :hugs:


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## wibble wobble

Deb111 said:


> Wishing you both the best of luck for your upcoming appts :hugs:
> 
> It's just dawned on me that we're coming up to 2 yrs since the azoo diagnosis and still no baby :nope:

Big :hugs::hugs::hugs: I hope this year brings you your long awaited baby.


----------



## silverbell

To the person who asked about books (sorry am on iPod) - What to Expect When You're Expecting looks fab. I have it ready. Lol. Wishful thinking. 

To those of you thinking about donor sperm - I couldn't recommend this book more - "Helping the Stork - The Choices and Challenges of Donor Insemination". Got mine from Amazon. Covers absolutely everything and has real parent and child input.


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## SunUp

Big hugs Deb!


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## snd80

silverbell said:


> To the person who asked about books (sorry am on iPod) - What to Expect When You're Expecting looks fab. I have it ready. Lol. Wishful thinking.
> 
> To those of you thinking about donor sperm - I couldn't recommend this book more - "Helping the Stork - The Choices and Challenges of Donor Insemination". Got mine from Amazon. Covers absolutely everything and has real parent and child input.

SB- It was me! :hi: I have already read the "Helping the Stork" last June! It is a *must read* for anyone doing donor!!! :thumbup: I may read it again before we go in May.... And I am fixing to order the "What to..." book and have it ready! LOL!


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## snd80

Awww... :hugs: Deb! I hope and pray there will be lots of us w/ baby bumps by the end of this year!!!!


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## Pink Lolly

snd80 said:


> silverbell said:
> 
> 
> To the person who asked about books (sorry am on iPod) - What to Expect When You're Expecting looks fab. I have it ready. Lol. Wishful thinking.
> 
> To those of you thinking about donor sperm - I couldn't recommend this book more - "Helping the Stork - The Choices and Challenges of Donor Insemination". Got mine from Amazon. Covers absolutely everything and has real parent and child input.
> 
> SB- It was me! :hi: I have already read the "Helping the Stork" last June! It is a *must read* for anyone doing donor!!! :thumbup: I may read it again before we go in May.... And I am fixing to order the "What to..." book and have it ready! LOL!Click to expand...

I have just ordered the Helping the Stork book too - thank you for your recommendation ladies! :thumbup:

Hope everyone is ok here :wave: sorry I don't update on this thread very often but I always read all of the posts :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Hi Guys. Hope you are all doing good. I am going to look on amazon now for that book - thanks. 
Its been 2 weeks since we got our final azoo diagnosis and after lots and lots of discussions, donor sperm is our next option AND we have made an appointment for a fertility clinic for this Friday. We are both feeling excited and I can't believe how positive we feel after being told that my hubby can't have 'his biological' children. I really didnt think we would. This journey is so full of highs and lows, it is crazy. We hope to start IUI ASAP, all going well. Keep your fingers crossed all my tests go ok. 

Do any of you have any ideas on what I can tell my work, Im not telling them the truth, nor am I telling them about any fertility tests, so what can I tell them as I know I will need to change days off etc. This is the only part that is a concern to me.


----------



## snd80

Pink Lolly said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> silverbell said:
> 
> 
> To the person who asked about books (sorry am on iPod) - What to Expect When You're Expecting looks fab. I have it ready. Lol. Wishful thinking.
> 
> To those of you thinking about donor sperm - I couldn't recommend this book more - "Helping the Stork - The Choices and Challenges of Donor Insemination". Got mine from Amazon. Covers absolutely everything and has real parent and child input.
> 
> SB- It was me! :hi: I have already read the "Helping the Stork" last June! It is a *must read* for anyone doing donor!!! :thumbup: I may read it again before we go in May.... And I am fixing to order the "What to..." book and have it ready! LOL!Click to expand...
> 
> I have just ordered the Helping the Stork book too - thank you for your recommendation ladies! :thumbup:
> 
> Hope everyone is ok here :wave: sorry I don't update on this thread very often but I always read all of the posts :hugs:Click to expand...

PL- I am telling you, that book is awesome! It talks about things you probably wouldn't have thought of otherwise!!! Very good read!!! Lemme know what you think of it!!!!


----------



## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> Hi Guys. Hope you are all doing good. I am going to look on amazon now for that book - thanks.
> Its been 2 weeks since we got our final azoo diagnosis and after lots and lots of discussions, donor sperm is our next option AND we have made an appointment for a fertility clinic for this Friday. We are both feeling excited and I can't believe how positive we feel after being told that my hubby can't have 'his biological' children. I really didnt think we would. This journey is so full of highs and lows, it is crazy. We hope to start IUI ASAP, all going well. Keep your fingers crossed all my tests go ok.
> 
> Do any of you have any ideas on what I can tell my work, Im not telling them the truth, nor am I telling them about any fertility tests, so what can I tell them as I know I will need to change days off etc. This is the only part that is a concern to me.

Can you not just tell them it's female issues or maybe a hormonal problem and that you need regularly monitoring?

Just noticed your weightloss total!!!!! Well done you! :happydance::happydance::happydance:


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## raelynn

We got our blood test results back from the RE today. Husband's FSH level is "slightly elevated". Everything else is normal. We see the urologist next week but can anyone shed some light on what the high FSH means?


----------



## SunUp

Hey Raelynn- 
You might have already read this by now, but here ya go...

https://www.drmalpani.com/book/chapter5b.html


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## SunUp

Would anyone be up for a secret azoo facebook page? I would love a place to actually real - time chat with someone going through the same sort of things... but since no one knows (IRL) that we are LTTTC (or TTC, for that matter), it would have to be a secret.


----------



## wibble wobble

SunUp said:


> Would anyone be up for a secret azoo facebook page? I would love a place to actually real - time chat with someone going through the same sort of things... but since no one knows (IRL) that we are LTTTC (or TTC, for that matter), it would have to be a secret.

I'd be up for a facebook secret group xx


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## raelynn

Me too!


----------



## Deb111

raelynn said:


> We got our blood test results back from the RE today. Husband's FSH level is "slightly elevated". Everything else is normal. We see the urologist next week but can anyone shed some light on what the high FSH means?

It basically means that your dh's body has recognised that there's a problem with sperm production and is trying to sort it out by driving the FSH higher. If it's only slightly raised, it probably means they can drive it much higher still, with meds and hopefully increase production. It also suggest there's not a blockage xx


----------



## Deb111

SunUp said:


> Would anyone be up for a secret azoo facebook page? I would love a place to actually real - time chat with someone going through the same sort of things... but since no one knows (IRL) that we are LTTTC (or TTC, for that matter), it would have to be a secret.

Definitely! I had tried to set something like that up before, but don't really use facebook and didn't know wnough bout it to risk it in case it wasn't totally hidden. If you, or someone else can set it up; count me in! :thumbup:


----------



## MJ73

SunUp said:


> Would anyone be up for a secret azoo facebook page? I would love a place to actually real - time chat with someone going through the same sort of things... but since no one knows (IRL) that we are LTTTC (or TTC, for that matter), it would have to be a secret.

What agreat idea sun!:thumbup: I'd definitely be up for a facebook meet-up. I'd have no idea how to do it so that it's secret though. Count me in too.


----------



## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> Wishing you both the best of luck for your upcoming appts :hugs:
> 
> It's just dawned on me that we're coming up to 2 yrs since the azoo diagnosis and still no baby :nope:


Deb, that's tough... Hopefully this cycle will be the sticky one for you guys:hugs: Any news hun? How you feeling this cycle? Coping okay? I hated the frozen cycle, felt like it was all waiting around.


----------



## cosita

Hi everybody, 
Its been a long time since I've posted, basically cos I have had no news and was enjoying a 3 month break from all of this while my hubby was taking vits and things that the andrologist had told him to take. I mean enjoying a break cos we took it as that. We just kind of put it all on the back burner and thought 'hey, 3 months with no bad news, just being able to enjoy our lives as they are'...and life IS pretty good! 
Anyway, today we visited the andrologist again and he sent another sperm analysis. He wants to venture into the possibility of a hidden infection. So depending on the results of the SA he will be put on antibiotics for a week and then a month later, another SA. 
So we need a lot of pppaaaattttiiieeenccccceeeee! So basically in 6 wks or so, we will know whether we are going down biopsy route or not.
First SA - zero (well 1 sperm found - no motility)
Second SA - less than 2 million (0% motility) - it was never clarified by the lab if this less that 2 million means more than one but doc thinks it is. 
Third SA - TBA
Thanks girls, stay strong.


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## mumanddad

I would be up for joining the fb page if you will have me.

Matt wants to ttc in 6 months but i can see us getting refered straight back to clinic due to azoo x


----------



## deafgal01

Cosita- good luck!

SunUp- Love the idea of a secret facebook group. I'm up for it. I have no idea how that works but I'd love to do that.


----------



## snd80

Sun- I'd join if it was on the down low! Certain ppl on my so called "friends" list I wouldn't want to know; you get my drift...


----------



## WANBMUM

Deb111 said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Hi Guys. Hope you are all doing good. I am going to look on amazon now for that book - thanks.
> Its been 2 weeks since we got our final azoo diagnosis and after lots and lots of discussions, donor sperm is our next option AND we have made an appointment for a fertility clinic for this Friday. We are both feeling excited and I can't believe how positive we feel after being told that my hubby can't have 'his biological' children. I really didnt think we would. This journey is so full of highs and lows, it is crazy. We hope to start IUI ASAP, all going well. Keep your fingers crossed all my tests go ok.
> 
> Do any of you have any ideas on what I can tell my work, Im not telling them the truth, nor am I telling them about any fertility tests, so what can I tell them as I know I will need to change days off etc. This is the only part that is a concern to me.
> 
> Can you not just tell them it's female issues or maybe a hormonal problem and that you need regularly monitoring?
> 
> Just noticed your weightloss total!!!!! Well done you! :happydance::happydance::happydance:Click to expand...

Thanks Deb, yes I will have to come up with something, i like the hormonal issue. I really dont want to point them in the direction of fertility at all, I will definitly be using regular monitoring. Im sure it will all fall into place. 

thanks, my weightloss is going really well, although this past week I have been all over the place and really enjoying myself food wise. Its really funny, I am just starting to physically see it, in my clothes and I then decide to self destruct and eat all around me! I am getting it back on track again and have been at the gym lots so hopefully that will even it out. I;ve been following weight watchers and I love it, its so doable, I still get to have what I want, as in if I want a bar of choc or a chinese, I just factor it into my points. Saying that, I have a couple more stone to go. Hopefully I will get pregnant and get fat anyway - now that would be awesome!


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi Sun, How exactly would that work? wouuld we use our current profiles is it? I'd be happy once it was confidential :)


----------



## raelynn

It looks like this is how you can do the facebook group and just set it to private
https://www.facebook.com/groups


----------



## Deb111

Cosita - lovely to see you back - keeping everything crossed for you

MJ - I'm doing ok thanks - in fact this FET has flown by for us!! It doesn't seem 5 minutes ago that we cancelled the cycle and now a day 7 scan, a day 11 scan today, +opk at lunchtime and trigger shot done 8pm this evening :thumbup: 

FET booked for Valentines day! xx


----------



## raelynn

Deb that is so sweet that it is happening on Valentine's day! Good luck!


----------



## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> Cosita - lovely to see you back - keeping everything crossed for you
> 
> MJ - I'm doing ok thanks - in fact this FET has flown by for us!! It doesn't seem 5 minutes ago that we cancelled the cycle and now a day 7 scan, a day 11 scan today, +opk at lunchtime and trigger shot done 8pm this evening :thumbup:
> 
> FET booked for Valentines day! xx

Deb; Valentines Day; thats awesome. A good omen me thinks. Keeping everything crossed for you hun :flower:


----------



## cosita

Hi again, 
Deb so excited for you, have my fingers and toes crossed for you. Well we got our SA results, back to zero. Still waiting on the biochemical analysis which may or may not give some idea as to why. Could I ask you if you have gotten a reason for your OH's azoospermia, or just a plain diagnosis? Your answers would be greatly appreciated. Hearing you all talk about 'Helping the stork' I almost bought it but we haven't even had a biopsy yet. I guess I should wait but its not a bad idea to consider the option before its landed on us, what do you think? 
Thanks girls.


----------



## wibble wobble

cosita said:


> Hi again,
> Deb so excited for you, have my fingers and toes crossed for you. Well we got our SA results, back to zero. Still waiting on the biochemical analysis which may or may not give some idea as to why. Could I ask you if you have gotten a reason for your OH's azoospermia, or just a plain diagnosis? Your answers would be greatly appreciated. Hearing you all talk about 'Helping the stork' I almost bought it but we haven't even had a biopsy yet. I guess I should wait but its not a bad idea to consider the option before its landed on us, what do you think?
> Thanks girls.

We haven't actually been given a reason for hubby's azoo. His testicles are on the small side (he'd hate me for telling anyone that :haha: ) which is a symptom of failure the raised fsh is another symptom (the higher the fsh the less chance of finding sperm) His mum actually said to us the day before we were due to go back for the results of the tese that 'his balls took a lot longer to drop than his brothers' her exact words, they did drop without a need for surgery not long after he started walking... but damage must have been done to them while they were undescended, with no room to develop normally.

The fact tat he had an elevated fsh they said suggested the brain knew there was a problem and was trying to rectify it. We should have had histology results after the tese,but for some reason the lab was slow in sending them back and by the time we saw the consultant again we'd already decided that it's pointless knowing what histology says as we don't want to put ourselves through another random tese and can't afford the more expensive mtese and anyway that has no guarantees of success. It's way too emotionally draining. I had pinned all my hopes on the tese working that when it didn't it was such a blow.... It floored me for days


----------



## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> It looks like this is how you can do the facebook group and just set it to private
> https://www.facebook.com/groups

Has the group been set up yet?


----------



## Deb111

We were just told it is likely that hubby has always been like this - it's nothing that's suddenly happened - chances are he was born that way, with only a small amount of the sertoli cells being any good


----------



## Pink Lolly

After our SSR, we were told that dh has maturation arrest where he produces sperm but it dies before it matures. They couldn't tell us the cause but said it could be genetic. His testosterone levels were fine, but fsh was on the high side xxx


----------



## snd80

Deb111 said:


> FET booked for Valentines day! xx

Yay Deb! Everything crossed for you!!!

My appt got changed to V-Day too, so maybe it will be a good day!

Hope everyone is doing well!!! :hugs: to all!


----------



## WANBMUM

My hubby had some form of damage to his tubes, causing scar tissue. They think this was either caused as a result of x ray damage, where he wasnt protected correctly or by an operation issue. They can't confirm.


----------



## deafgal01

:dust: to Deb and snd on your upcoming appointments/FET. 

What's the update on the facebook private/secret group?


----------



## raelynn

I was going to leave it up to SunUp since it was her suggestion but I can make it if you all want. What should we call it?


----------



## MJ73

cosita said:


> Hi again,
> Deb so excited for you, have my fingers and toes crossed for you. Well we got our SA results, back to zero. Still waiting on the biochemical analysis which may or may not give some idea as to why. Could I ask you if you have gotten a reason for your OH's azoospermia, or just a plain diagnosis? Your answers would be greatly appreciated. Hearing you all talk about 'Helping the stork' I almost bought it but we haven't even had a biopsy yet. I guess I should wait but its not a bad idea to consider the option before its landed on us, what do you think?
> Thanks girls.

Good to see you back Cosita. We were never given a reason for DH's azoos, although he does have 1 undescended teste (he'd hate to think I was talking about it) & the one he does have is small (within normal) volume. He does have a Cystic Fibrosis gene mutation, which they hinted (but never confirmed) might be the cause of all his probs. Hope this helps. Good luck xx


----------



## MJ73

Snd; good luck at your appt on VD. How exciting that things are moving along xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello lovelies, 

I hope you're all well. Ooh, a secret FB group would be fantastic! Count me in!

Good luck SND and Deb - come on Frostie!

All go here, we had my dad's funeral on the 31st. There was a huge turnout, well over 200 people. There was so much love and fondness for him, it was quite over-whelming. He worked in Breakfast TV here in the UK and one of the presenters wrote a short piece about him in Saturday's Daily Mirror. It was very touching. Now my brother and I are trying to sort out the estate and I'm here finishing up on the packing for our move to South West London. I've just heard that snow is on its way here to North West London (we're we currently live), so that should make Saturday's move 'interesting' to say the least! At least it's all a distraction from thinking about how much I'm missing my dad.

I'm sending out lots of positive thoughts to all... this HAS to be our year! 

Big :hugs: and keep warm!

C xx

P.S. Orange have cocked-up our Broadband, so I might be MIA until we can get it sorted... grrrrr - web developers kinda NEED access to the internet!


----------



## Sar187

cosita-my DH has obstructive azoo and our assumption before surgery which was confirmed during TESE surgery was that the obstruction was caused from scar tissue leftover from hernia surgeries DH had when he was little, he had to have a hernia/hydrocele removed/fixed on the left side when he was 5 months old and one on the right side done when he was 4 years old. After doing the TESE the Urologist confirmed that not only was there a lot of scar tissue around and blocking the vas deferens there was also a lot of scar tissue around the epididymis pretty much making it twice as impossible for sperm to go anywhere from the testicles. Luckily testicular tissue was perfectly healthy!

Deb-Wow your FET is really moving! so excited for you and praying so hard for you that everything goes well! 

Tiger it is overwhelming to see a turnout like that. My Dad's funeral almost 2 years ago was the same way, we couldn't believe how many people there were. Try and get some rest as well dealing with everything can be very exhausting! Hugs!

I know I've missed some things so I hope everyone else is doing well!


----------



## mumanddad

cosita said:


> Hi again,
> Deb so excited for you, have my fingers and toes crossed for you. Well we got our SA results, back to zero. Still waiting on the biochemical analysis which may or may not give some idea as to why. Could I ask you if you have gotten a reason for your OH's azoospermia, or just a plain diagnosis? Your answers would be greatly appreciated. Hearing you all talk about 'Helping the stork' I almost bought it but we haven't even had a biopsy yet. I guess I should wait but its not a bad idea to consider the option before its landed on us, what do you think?
> Thanks girls.

My hubby has a varagus (sorry spelling) vain blocking his tube which we found out a few weeks before i got a bfp x


----------



## Deb111

Congrats MumamdDad on the arrival of your :baby:

Would love to see some pictures :happydance:

Hope you're all doing ok xx


----------



## mumanddad

We are doing well now we are out of hospital, ill update you later with my birth story and pictures xx


----------



## SunUp

Sorry about being so late to respond about the facebook group -
It would be totally private and only members only... 
I did it before to plan my friends wedding festivities and only the bridesmaids could see the page.
Did someone set the page up or does it still need to be done? The only thing is we might have to PM the person who makes the page with your 'facebook name' because I am pretty sure the private groups are invite only (you can't even find it if you search for it)


----------



## silverbell

cosita said:


> Hi again,
> Could I ask you if you have gotten a reason for your OH's azoospermia, or just a plain diagnosis? Your answers would be greatly appreciated. Hearing you all talk about 'Helping the stork' I almost bought it but we haven't even had a biopsy yet. I guess I should wait but its not a bad idea to consider the option before its landed on us, what do you think?
> Thanks girls.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all in considering all options now. It can help later on.

My husband was found to have Klinefelter's Syndrome when he had the karyotype genetic blood test. This is a genetic disorder he was born with that occurred at his conception where either his father had a sperm with an extra X chromosome or his mother's egg had an extra X chromosome. Complete fluke but with devastating fertility results. Thankfully apart from that he's mostly OK. He has low Testosterone and high FSH. Low Testosterone needs to be treated for life with Testosterone replacement due to the effects this can have on bones and general health. He's going to start this next month (we were waiting for the mTESE first, as Testosterone during fertility investigations has a damaging effect on any sperm that might be being produced). I hope this helps.



tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello lovelies,
> 
> 
> All go here, we had my dad's funeral on the 31st. There was a huge turnout, well over 200 people. There was so much love and fondness for him, it was quite over-whelming. He worked in Breakfast TV here in the UK and one of the presenters wrote a short piece about him in Saturday's Daily Mirror. It was very touching. Now my brother and I are trying to sort out the estate and I'm here finishing up on the packing for our move to South West London. I've just heard that snow is on its way here to North West London (we're we currently live), so that should make Saturday's move 'interesting' to say the least! At least it's all a distraction from thinking about how much I'm missing my dad.

Hey tiger. That's so sweet about your Dad's funeral. I'm glad all went as well as it could. Sending you lots of :hugs:



SunUp said:


> Sorry about being so late to respond about the facebook group -
> It would be totally private and only members only...
> I did it before to plan my friends wedding festivities and only the bridesmaids could see the page.
> Did someone set the page up or does it still need to be done? The only thing is we might have to PM the person who makes the page with your 'facebook name' because I am pretty sure the private groups are invite only (you can't even find it if you search for it)

I think a secret FB page is a GREAT idea. Would definitely be up for that. PM-ing FB names to the creator shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think. It sounds like there's a lot of interest for this. I imagine I could even get my DH to join a secret FB group.

---

AFM - first cycle of donor IUI will start during the 2nd week of March :happydance: We're getting very excited now.


----------



## SunUp

Ok how about if I set up a page?
If you would PM me what your name is listed as on facebook - I will send you a friend request in order to ask you to join the group (we don't have to stay facebook "friends" - I just have to have you on my friends list for you to join the group.)

It will be set to secret - only people invited to join are able to see the page


----------



## mumanddad

Here we go, here is what happened to myself and Corbyn, he was born the same day as his big angel brother which was what i didnt want but with the circumstances i think Logan george helped get him here safe.

Sorry for the wrong reply 

Well where to begin on the arrival of baby taylor.

I went to see my consultant on the 18th of January as normal for my two week check up and scan. 

we got our final date of induction which was going to be the 28th January 2012 - which wasnt ideal for us as this is out first babys angelversary but to make sure my boy was here safe and sound i agreed. 

But from this point who knew what was going to happen. 

I had been booked in every day from the 21st January for an ecv (think that was what it was called - but it was to monitor the babys heart beat) i asked why everyday and my consultant said just to be safe :wacko:

Any way i went to labour and deleivery on the 21st and 22nd of january and baby was happy and head down which was great as i was all set for a normal deleivery!!!

on monday 23rd January i went to the Day assment unit which was for a 15 minute monitoring - well how wrong was I??

The little man had turned breech again! not only that but my movements had slowed alot so after 3 scans and an hour on the monitor, it had been decided that i would have to have the baby turned on tuesday 24th January.

I managed to get hold of hubby so that he could be there as i am such a wimp when im alone. 

on the morning of the 24th i called the deleivery ward to see what time i could come in, i finally got through to them after 2 hours of trying and went in- after an hour on the monitor the consultant came in and gave me an injection to relax my muscels and he then turned him within seconds so i was releived but then he decided that it would be better for me to have a sweep while i was there as well.

Well the mw came in to do the sweep which was uncomfertable but my cervix was still high - but soft so she attempted to do one.

Next thing i know i am strapped back up to the monitor and i had another consultant and 2 other mws come in - and guess what the little bugger and turned breech again!!!

Well from then i was admitted on to the mat ward- no one told me that with my history i was 60% more likley to suffer from cord prolapse :cry: and that if i went in to labour naturally they would have seconds to get my baby out alive.

WHY THE HELL WASN'T I TOLD THIS- I WAS SO ANGREY!!

well i was put in to a room with 3 other ladies- one was due to be discharged and the other 2 where in labour and due to be moved so i thought great ill be able to get some sleep--- well how wrong was I??

by the morning i hadn't slept a wink and i wanted to go home :growlmad: but the consultant on call said NO! i had to stay till the baby was born :(

Well my consultant came to see me and the new plan was - to turn the little man again on Friday the 27th January and then induce straight away which i was happy with because there was going to be 2 consultants a mw on hand at all times- i was so sure that i was not having the baby any other way.

Well i was moved in to my own room because i was so tired, which was great.

Well everyday i seen a different oncall consultant and one was soooo rude to me and my hubby.

_It was thursday 26th Jan and Mr Ramsey came in with 4 students and said to me - you do know that you are putting your baby in great danger  this baby is not ready to come out yet i got so upset i voiced my opinion and asked him to leave and for some one to get my consultant._

But my consultant wasnt around till friday.

Well friday came and i had no sleep what so ever due to that horrible consultant, the steroid injections during the night and nerves about everything that was due to happen.

The day was passing very quickly and the labour ward was manic, but the duty consultant came and asked me to get ready and that she was on her way to get me, my consultant was just washing up. But 4 hours later no one had still come to get me so i kicked up a stink and another consultant came to see me. 

He was great, he took me down for a scan and we had a talk- basically he wanted me to wait till friday 4th Feb for a elective c section (which i really didnt want) but if baby was head down then he would induce instead. which i thought was great i would rather give my baby an extra week to cook.

Well the scan showed that the cord was sitting on the little mans head, so he decided that he would turn him now just to be safe (due to how we lost Logan-george) 

The consultant couldnt get the baby to turn at all he was moving a tiny bit but then moving straight back to where he was, so i was put back on the monitor but everything went wrong.

The little mans heart beat kept dipping, not by much but it was. 
They sent my hubby home saying that all would be ok and that i would be allowed home in the morning. 

But as soon as he left the babys heart beat went from 169 to 56 and this kept happening- so i buzzed for the mw and when she came in and looked at the sheet she buzzed for some one to go and get the consultant and the registra and guess what it was the horrible consultant from the thursday.

He said to me this baby is very unhappy and i need to get him out now!! when did you last eat- well i had eaten about half hour before because they said nothing was going to happen, i had also text all the family saying dates have changed i am coming home.

I called matt on strict instructions to tell him not to speed as we had to wait and i was on a monitor so we could tell if baby was getting any more distressed.

Well as soon as matt picked the phone up and i said tonight we will be holding our baby boy he dropped his pint and rushed to the hospital- and yes he got stopped by the police!! they thank god didnt give him a ticket for speeding but they blue lighted him to the hospital.

i was meant to go down for the emergance c section by 11 pm but i was still waiting at midnight which meant my to baby boys where going to share a birthday (which is not what i wanted)

Well they wheeled me down to my recovery room to get me preped for surgary :( i was so scared and i was shivering all i could do was cry. 

when we got to theater everyone was lovely, they had all been briefed about my loss of Logan-george so they where trying to keep me calm but matt wasn't allowed in while they did all the pre checks. 

I cant remember much of the operation apart from the horrible pulling feeling in my tummy :nope: it was auwful it really was. 

But as soon as i heard Corbyn Matthew Taylor Crying i was releived.

he got taken in to another room where they had to give him oxygen to help him breath :( and he also had a feeding tube inserted.

His weight was 4lb 15 1/2 oz he was sooooo small - not what any one expected they all thought he would be 7lb + how wrong where they.

They next few hours where such a blur, i just wanted my boy with me and i was getting mixed messages from nicu telling me on how corbyn was.

over the next day or so corbyn had to be put on oxygen a few times in the nights and wasnt keeping his sugar levels up, this was killing me i thought i was going to loose another baby :( 

Well the lovely man who did the operation came to see me, he said that if i had waited till the 4th of Feb he didnt think corbyn would of made it, apprently my placenta had stopped working and my cord was drying ( it was the longest cord he had ever seen, and he has been delivering babys for 25+ years) 

i was fuming at this point and the mat ward where trying to send me home the day after my surgary :cry: i was lucky that nicu kicked off for me as i wanted to breast feed by little man, and they had to rush a bed for me on transional care. 

We was on TC for 2 days in total, i had to threaten the mw's about using corbyns feeding tube as they where feeding him without me knowing, he wasnt waking and they where feeding him ( which meant he wasn't learning that he had to shout for his food)

We finally got home and we are both doing great, apart from his thrush from his antibiotics :( but that is all getting better now he is on drops.

He is 10 days old and All i keep thinking is that i have to be thankful of Corbyns big brother for making sure he got here safe and sound.

Logan-george is our gaurdian angel :hugs:

Here are a few pictures of Corbyn Matthew Taylor 

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/C370F6AB-orig.jpg

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/6490B429-orig.jpg

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/3387BBD1-orig.jpg

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/16C7FC41-orig.jpg

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/2061BA20-orig.jpg

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/AAB37E9E-orig.jpg

https://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q621/hayleightaylor87/Snapbucket/728EF5B1-orig.jpg

Thank you for reading.

Hayleigh - one very happy mummy xxx


----------



## SunUp

Awww! Adorable :)


----------



## mumanddad

thank you, he is my world being told that we have azoospermia and will never have any more children (proves how wrong some hospitals can be, there must of been one little sperm that got its way through) xx


----------



## silverbell

Thanks for sharing your birth story, mumanddad - he's adorable :cloud9: I do think it's very poignant how he shares a birthday with his big brother. Lovely.


----------



## deafgal01

Mum wow :cry: that is emotional! So glad he found his way safely although it sounds like it was touch and go for a bit there and frustrations. :hugs: congrats Mum on a sweet darling boy!


----------



## mumanddad

It was horrible, i wanted a normal birth but no.

Im just glad he is here xx


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: So relieved he made it here safe and healthy as possible... I know he seems so small (from the pictures and his weight at birth) but he's perfect in every way possible. You're right, his big brother angel was watching out for him.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Congratulations, mumanddad! He's completely and utterly gorgeous, absolutely perfect! What a nightmare though, glad you're all doing okay. And yes, Big Brother is definitely looking out for all of you :hugs:

C xx


----------



## Pink Lolly

Congrats mumanddad, he's gorgeous xxx


----------



## wibble wobble

SunUp said:


> Ok how about if I set up a page?
> If you would PM me what your name is listed as on facebook - I will send you a friend request in order to ask you to join the group (we don't have to stay facebook "friends" - I just have to have you on my friends list for you to join the group.)
> 
> It will be set to secret - only people invited to join are able to see the page

my name is really common,(well since i got married) so i'll try to send the link if thats ok


----------



## wibble wobble

Congrats mumanddad your little baby is perfect xx


----------



## snd80

Dang SB! You got that sh*t on the ball quick!!!! Good for you!!!! Can't wait to see how it turns out! :happydance:

I can't wait till our turn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! :drool:


----------



## Deb111

Wow MumandDad - what a stressful experience for you all. I'm so glad Corbyn is here safe and sound :baby:

Sunup - I will PM you my facebook name xx


----------



## SunUp

I have sent requests for all PMs I have gotten. If you didn't get one please let me know.


----------



## MJ73

*SB*, that's great news hun! How fast was that?:happydance:

*SND*, your time will come around before you know it; hang in there sweetie:hugs:

*MumandDad*, congrats hun,:cloud9: he is just divine, sorry your birth was so stressful, but I'm sure that gorgeous little bundle makes all the stress worth it. His big brother was definitely watching out for him :hugs:

*Tiger*, so glad to hear the funeral was a lovely tribute to your Dad, hope you're coping ok:hugs: Has the move happened yet?

*Sun*, thanks for setting up the FB page, it's great:thumbup:

AFM, only 4 more sleeps till we see our FS to see what he has to say about proceeding...Finally something is actually happening, after 2 months of waiting. Maybe an April full stim cycle? Fingers crossed:dust:


----------



## cosita

Wow, congratulations mumandad!! This is such good news! There is always hope isn't there!:happydance:


----------



## Deb111

Ok, at the risk of sounding stupid :dohh: I barely use facebook and only to really keep up to date with friends photos, so ... I have accepted the friend request, how do I go about actually finding the group / page? COuld someone maybe send me a link to it? xx


----------



## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> Ok, at the risk of sounding stupid :dohh: I barely use facebook and only to really keep up to date with friends photos, so ... I have accepted the friend request, how do I go about actually finding the group / page? COuld someone maybe send me a link to it? xx

I think as it's private, Sun has to send you an invite. Look forward to seeing all the gals on there.:happydance:

PS. Not stupid at all!


----------



## Deb111

Ah that makes sense thanks :thumbup:


----------



## wibble wobble

SunUp said:


> I have sent requests for all PMs I have gotten. If you didn't get one please let me know.

Hi hun I didn't get a request, did the link work that I sent in the pm?


----------



## Luvoboe

Hi all,
I am happy but sad to find this group. Happy because there are people going through the same thing as I am but sad because people are going through the same thing I am. I'm hoping that this thread is still active. I'll share a little about our family's story. 
My husband have been together six years but married 4 1/2 years or so. About six months into our marriage we found out that my husband had a tumor on his pituitary gland. It resulted in him having surgery and having the tumor and most of his glaand removed. He was then given testosterone along with other things to help balance his hormones. He did have a sperm analysis which showed some sperm that wasn't very active. No one thought to tell us that we should freeze the sperm that they do find just in case. No one told us that being on testosterone replacement therapy could cause infertility. In fact, they told us the opposite. When he got the zero sperm count they told us that we need to just wait until the medicen kicks in and his testosterone level goes up. We waited until last year in November. It was then that I decided to do some research to see of there was something else we could do. I figured after three years of nothing has happened by now, it's not going to. It's a good thing that I did because it turns out testosterone is the last thing that he should be taking. You can't believe how angry I was! I have lost all faith in the medical system and will be researching everything before I consent to any treatment for me or my husband. This all could have been avoided if we had saved the sperm from before the surgery. Why didn't they think to says something!!
In any case, we are seeing a urologist who specializes in fertility and hubby is on hcg right now. He has an appointment in march to see how his hormone levels are but right now, everything is very very low. The doctor seems hopeful that this will work. My husband is starting to talk about our children. He's pressuring me to lose weight so that I can be healthy and is generally excited.
I really hope this works because I think he will be very very devastated if it doesn't. I really don't want to see him hurt.


----------



## Luvoboe

Also, sorry for the long post and for the typos. I was typing really fast and didn't have time to proofread. Sometimes auto correct does silly things with your words.


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Luv 

Welcome to the thread but sorry you have to join us :hugs:

There are lots of girls on here all in different situations and we have formed a strong support network so I'm glad you found us :flower:


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## snd80

Hi Luv! Welcome!


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## deafgal01

:hi: Luvoboe :hugs: That's just awful how they did that to you. :hugs: Hopefully you'll have a happy ending to that story... (or should I say "beginning"). :hugs: There are a few success stories here already and then there are others still trying (and then there are a few like us who are still waiting based on more testing/actions).


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## Deb111

Hi Luvoboe and welcome. As PL says, we have a really strong, supportive and active group so I'm glad you found us :thumbup:

I'm so sorry you've had to deal with incompetent medical people - we all seem to have at some point along the way, but yours sound really major. I really hope this FS can help you. Maybe stopping the testosterone and replacing it with something to boost his own levels is a possibility? I'm sure you will have lost of questions for the FS 

Keep us posted xx


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## wibble wobble

Hi luvoboe welcome to the thread

and a big HI to everyone just thought I'd share my little bit of news.... Hubby is coming to terms with using a donor at first he didn't want anyone to know, today he has told his brother thats what we are doing. His brother even offered his sperm, we had considered asking him in the past but I talked us out of it. His brother has 4 kids and I don't know how he'd be able to watch us raise what would've been his baby (biologically) without trying to have his say on upbringing. I guess we can always reconsider in the future but it's not really a real option at the minute... I'd prefer to go through the clinic for anonymous 

I have a open evening at the ivf clinic on thursday evening kinda looking forward to that, I've been speaking to a woman who has been in the exact same situation as me at the clinic and she was matched pretty soon after so thats given me a glimmer of hope that it may not be as long as I thought.... OH and I'm still waiting for my follow up appointment to my screening bloods, I should get a letter soon according to my consultants secretary.... she's amazing when it comes to sorting out the details


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## cosita

Thats great news Wibble, glad you are moving forward. 
Luv - unfortunately the thread is still active and sometimes hyperactive at that!! The women here are a godsend.


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## raelynn

Welcome Luv! Happy to have you but sad you're in the same situation.

Monday didn't start out great for me. I woke up really nauseous. Yuck! We had our appointment with the urologist today and now we're just more confused than ever. We went in expecting that we'd be going for mTESE but now we're not sure. It is hard to think about dropping around 10k on just a chance to find something. And if they find nothing that leaves us with not many other options since the money is gone. Plus, if we manage to get pregnant, we're planning on moving to a bigger place so we have to consider that when dipping into our savings too.


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## Deb111

raelynn said:


> Welcome Luv! Happy to have you but sad you're in the same situation.
> 
> Monday didn't start out great for me. I woke up really nauseous. Yuck! We had our appointment with the urologist today and now we're just more confused than ever. We went in expecting that we'd be going for mTESE but now we're not sure. It is hard to think about dropping around 10k on just a chance to find something. And if they find nothing that leaves us with not many other options since the money is gone. Plus, if we manage to get pregnant, we're planning on moving to a bigger place so we have to consider that when dipping into our savings too.

What are they suggesting instead of mTESE? mTESE is by far the best and as you're paying for it, personally I would INSIST on it!


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## raelynn

They said they can do testicular mapping. They did say it is less likely to find sperm that way but that it costs less. We're kind of leaning towards that and if they find nothing going with donor. But, we won't really know until the financial adviser from the urologist calls us with costs of everything. DH said he really doesn't want to pay so much for them to just tell him there is nothing to be found and then for us to have to pay for a donor on top of it anyway. At this point, I'm kind of leaving it up to him since it is his choice to make what he is willing to go through. Regardless, it will be his child (whether biological or not)


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## Deb111

raelynn said:


> They said they can do testicular mapping. They did say it is less likely to find sperm that way but that it costs less. We're kind of leaning towards that and if they find nothing going with donor. But, we won't really know until the financial adviser from the urologist calls us with costs of everything. DH said he really doesn't want to pay so much for them to just tell him there is nothing to be found and then for us to have to pay for a donor on top of it anyway. At this point, I'm kind of leaving it up to him since it is his choice to make what he is willing to go through. Regardless, it will be his child (whether biological or not)

Very true :hugs:

We seriously considered testicular mapping but couldn't get it in the UK. It has a lot higher success rates than a random biopsy like the NHS do here

I'm sure you've seen it, but if not, have a look at Dr Turek's info on sperm mapping https://www.theturekclinic.com/testicular-mapping.html

He will do a 10 minute free phone consultation - even if you are not planning on using him, he may give you some useful info xx


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## raelynn

Thanks, Deb! This is great info. It seems our urologist would be doing something in between a biopsy and mapping since they won't take as many as 11 samples but he did say he could take three samples from each side. Talked to DH again over dinner and he said we'll still wait to hear the cost of everything to make a decision but we're thinking we'll probably go with the mapping with a donor backup. He's pretty much come to terms with the possibility of a donor at this point and doesn't want to jump through hoops physically and financially to still possibly be told they found nothing and tough luck. I guess we'll know more after hearing costs and our follow-up next week with the FS. Nothing about this diagnosis has been easy but I can definitely say hearing everyone's different stories and the support of this group is a HUGE help. I'd be completely overwhelmed without it.


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## SunUp

Hey Wibble--- never got a PM from you? 
You could also send your name and describe your profile pic.


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## silverbell

Luvoboe said:


> Hi all,
> I am happy but sad to find this group. Happy because there are people going through the same thing as I am but sad because people are going through the same thing I am. I'm hoping that this thread is still active. I'll share a little about our family's story.

Hi Luv - so lovely to meet you :wave: I'm sorry you've had to join us. I'm angry for the both of you about what you've been through - it's crazy that so many in the medical field are so clueless about this sort of thing.

I hope things work out really well for you. :hugs:



wibble wobble said:


> Hubby is coming to terms with using a donor at first he didn't want anyone to know, today he has told his brother thats what we are doing. His brother even offered his sperm, we had considered asking him in the past but I talked us out of it. His brother has 4 kids and I don't know how he'd be able to watch us raise what would've been his baby (biologically) without trying to have his say on upbringing. I guess we can always reconsider in the future but it's not really a real option at the minute... I'd prefer to go through the clinic for anonymous

I think it's great he's coming to terms with it, Wibble. I think it's a major thing for a guy to accept and be happy with particularly. I feel the same as you about an anonymous donor. We don't have the option of a brother anyway, but I would have been put off for the same reasons you suggest. It's just a personal thing.


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## silverbell

Thinking of the lovely Deb today and hoping all goes well and smoothly with her FET :flower:


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## deafgal01

Thinking of you Deb today :flower: and of you too Melinda. :hugs:

:flower: to everyone else- just because it's Valentine's Day and you all are awesome. :blush:


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## MJ73

Thinking of our lovely Deb & sending you all the positive, sticky vibes I have :hugs:


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## Luvoboe

Thank you so much for the welcome! I am so happy that I have found an active group of people! I'm in a good place right now but I really could have used support earlier. 
I've read a lot of the tread and am still trying to catch up. Everyone seems so nice!
My hubby is off of the testosterone right now and only taking hcg. I don't know if it's helping him make sperm but it is at least raising his testosterone level I think. It has at least helped his sex drive. That is the worst thing about a guy with low testosterone!!
I'm just so worried that this treatment won't work. He has been pretty quiet about the whole thing. He's shared a little about what he's felt through the years but for the most part he has suffered silently. 
Now, ever since he started the new treatment, he says something every day about our children. He's so excited. I think he will be devistated if it doesn't work. I really don't want to see him get hurt. I'm so scared that I just kind of want to stop and go back to how things were. At least that way we will never know for sure and he won't be hurt. I know that sounds silly but I can't help but to feel a little panicked for what might happen.


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## Deb111

Luvoboe said:


> My hubby is off of the testosterone right now and only taking hcg. I don't know if it's helping him make sperm but it is at least raising his testosterone level I think. It has at least helped his sex drive. That is the worst thing about a guy with low testosterone!!

Tell me about it!!! Huuby has NO sex drive - it's been nearly 18 months since I saw any action! :nope:


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## Deb111

Apologies for the cut and paste ...

So we're not long back 

Thanks for the lovely messages girls and my consultant's secretary was lovely when I called and explained form the services.

Well, we have a Grade 3BB embryo on board which she says has thawed so well and continued developing that it isn't really distinguishable from a fresh one.

Apparently if more than 50% of the cells survive, they will transfer it; 90% of ours survived and she said it is 100% expanded, meaning that all of the cells have rehydrated (I think )

She also said something about it being stage 3 I think when it was frozen and is stage 5 now - I think it was 'stage' she said - will have to get googling!

So, if I'm honest, the procedure itself wasn't any less unpleasant or uncomfortable than the last one that the other guy did, BUT the whole atmosphere was VERY different and so much more relaxed and we had a good laugh with both the Dr and the nurse.

Anyway, i will write more tomorrow if I've missed anything, but just wanted to update you all

Oh and I forgot to say ... it was starting to hatch before they put it back in so she said it will implant tonight and tomorrow all being well


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## snd80

OMG Deb! That sounds fabulous!!! I see us becoming azoo aunties again very SOOOOON!!!!! :happydance:


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## raelynn

Great news Deb! Paying for a sticky one for you!


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## wibble wobble

Great news Deb hope your keeping your feet up and relaxing 


Today is exactly a year since we had that first appointment with our Gp to ask why I'm not pregnant yet.... what a year it's been!!!


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## MJ73

Welcome to the group *Luv*:flower:, sounds like you've had a tough time of it with medical incompetence.

*Wibble*, that's great news about Hubby coming to terms with things. I've seen my DH go from being completely against the use of a donor to seriously considering it as a better option than undergoing the painful procedure again. I think they blame themselves at the beginning & need time to accept that we're still going to love & accept them no matter what...

*Luv *& *Deb*, I hear you about the sex drive issue... My DH has finally started to get his back recently, 12 months after our last TESE, now we're thinking about him going through it again... Just have to keep telling myself it will all be worth it if we get a bub out of it. I keep telling him that if one little spermy does get through, we'll never know if we're not getting our love on:winkwink:

Getting nervous :wacko: about appt this afternoon, will update tonight.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Wibble

:thumbup: That eggy will stick and snuggle in deep! You're gonna get a bfp and make aunties out of us. Go Deb! :yipee:

MJ- thinking of you as you go to your appointment today. Good luck!


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## mumanddad

Deb that sounds good, this one will be a sticky one you will get you bfp xxxx


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## silverbell

Luvoboe said:


> Now, ever since he started the new treatment, he says something every day about our children. He's so excited. I think he will be devistated if it doesn't work. I really don't want to see him get hurt. I'm so scared that I just kind of want to stop and go back to how things were. At least that way we will never know for sure and he won't be hurt. I know that sounds silly but I can't help but to feel a little panicked for what might happen.

I think we've all been there at some point, Luv. I know I've wished we never found out and wished we were back TTC like a 'normal' couple, but at the same time I'm obviously glad we found out in the end so we could decide what to do next.

You're right - he will be absolutely devastated if it doesn't work, just as you will, but there's really no way of avoiding this hurt and I'm afraid a lot of us throughout this azoo journey have to endure horrible amounts of hurt over and over again. But I think a lot can be said about how lovely the ladies on here still are despite everything and how supportive we are of our partners and how strong they have been for us. We're always here whenever you might need a shoulder to cry on or when you need some positive thoughts. :hugs:



wibble wobble said:


> Today is exactly a year since we had that first appointment with our Gp to ask why I'm not pregnant yet.... what a year it's been!!!

:hugs: :hugs:



MJ73 said:


> Getting nervous :wacko: about appt this afternoon, will update tonight.

I really hope all goes well today, MJ. Look forward to hearing about it :hugs:


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## deafgal01

silverbell said:


> You're right - he will be absolutely devastated if it doesn't work, just as you will, but there's really no way of avoiding this hurt and I'm afraid a lot of us throughout this azoo journey have to endure horrible amounts of hurt over and over again. *But I think a lot can be said about how lovely the ladies on here still are despite everything and how supportive we are of our partners and how strong they have been for us.* We're always here whenever you might need a shoulder to cry on or when you need some positive thoughts. :hugs:

I agree with that Silver. I think it's in the video that Deb made (on the first page) that is perfect- something about when we cry, it means we've been "strong" for way too long. :thumbup: I can't believe half of the things y'all have been through and still come through so sweet and supportive and lovely (that kind of process could make us bitter of other ladies who have it all).


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## Deb111

:hugs: wibble - it's hard when 'anniversaries' start coming up and it reminds you how long this journey is

MJ - all the best for your appt hun

And to all you lovely ladies, lots of :friends: - just because ...


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## Luvoboe

I really hope that things work out for you Deb! If I remember correctly you were the one who first started this thread? 

I haven't caught up on the other pages yet so I don't know what everyone is going through just yet but I wish everyone the best. 

I've been meaning to check out the video but I'm always on my phone. I'll have to make it a point to hop on my computer tonight when I get home. 

I hope this feeling of dread go away soon. I honestly think I'm more worried about him than about me. He's already been through so much with the surgery and then being so sick for so long afterwards. Plus, he tends to keep his feelings to himself so the fact that he is so excited will make thigs so hard for him. I've never seen him so excited about anything. In fact, I didn't even know he wanted children because when he found out at first he couldn't have children he was not upset at all. All he said was oh well, I'd be happy either way with or without children. I was even worried that he didn't even want children and he'd go throguh all this and work so hard to have a child and then be unhappy. Obviously, that was just him hiding his feelings. The big goofball really does want children. 

Sorry for all these me me me posts. I have to catch up on the thread to write more personals and I guess I still have a lot to get off my chest. 

Our appointment is coming up in march and I have to say, usually I look forward to it, but I truely am dreading this one.


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## deafgal01

Luv don't worry about it. We all started out with me posts when we started out our journey in here after finding out about the sperms. :hugs: think that is common for our men to not show feelings one way or another about the diagnosis. I def recommend you see Deb's video- so beautiful and explains things in a emotional way. We started a secret group on fb if you have fb and want to be invited into it. I think Sunup is the contact person to pm your fb name and description of profile pic if you want to join.


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## silverbell

Luvoboe said:


> I hope this feeling of dread go away soon. I honestly think I'm more worried about him than about me.

This sounds so familiar and I'm sure will be recognised by a lot of the other lovely ladies on here. It was certainly true in my case and even now - when we know he has absolutely zero sperm and are heading into our first cycle of donor insemination next month - I am still worrying about him and how he feels and how he'll cope and how he'll react. I guess I'll forever feel this way - you just can't help worrying about the one you love so much.


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## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> Luvoboe said:
> 
> 
> I hope this feeling of dread go away soon. I honestly think I'm more worried about him than about me.
> 
> This sounds so familiar and I'm sure will be recognised by a lot of the other lovely ladies on here. It was certainly true in my case and even now - when we know he has absolutely zero sperm and are heading into our first cycle of donor insemination next month - I am still worrying about him and how he feels and how he'll cope and how he'll react. I guess I'll forever feel this way - you just can't help worrying about the one you love so much.Click to expand...

I'm the same I'm still worried about how hubby will react when I'm passed the baby after delivery and he sees me falling in love. Part of me thinks he might not cope with it, is he going to feel that same love I do? Will he feel rejected because I'll have someone else to love? Is this going to change the way he feels about me? So many questions and none of them can be answered until the very last minute when we are in the situation... sometime I wish I had a crystal ball so I could just glimpse the future.

The appointment for my screening results has turned up today March 20th.... not too far away. After that I'll just be waiting for a donor match going :wacko:


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## lukasandy

hi ladies, i have a question related to azoospermia.. Can it be healed with natural supplements or alternative medications? anyone who have some experience with it, please help me.. Thanks.


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## Deb111

Difficult one to answer as azoospermia just means that there is no sperm getting into the ejaculate. 

In the cases where there is no obstruction (non obstructive azoospermia) it can be because there is simply no sperm being made (in which case I've yet to hear of anything natural or otherwise that will help), but if the sperm count is INCREDIBLY low (it is still unlikely that any sperm would get into the ejaculate hence a diagnosis of azoospermia) then there can be things that will help to improve things in some cases. I've not heard of natural things / alternative meds that can sort this out as it's usually hormonal, but I guess you can never say never :shrug:


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## MJ73

Hi Girls,
Sorry I haven't updated since our appt yesterday afternoon, this is the 1st chance I've had. Well, it was a really informative appt. This time we didn't worry about how demanding or silly we sounded:wacko:, we asked loads of questions. Basically we found out that DH has Sertolli Cell Only Syndrome type II. From what I understood, the sertolli cells are the most immature form of sperm cells & in type I of the syndrome that is as far as the cells mature. As DH has type II, he has some areas in the tubules where the sperm is produced, where the sperm cells do mature to almost fully mature sperm. Apparently these sperm are able to be used for IVF/ICSI, whereas the less mature sperm will not fertilise an egg. He seems to think that as DH's one testicle is of normal (only slightly small) volume he will be able to find sperm again for another stimulated cycle. He told us that DH's persistant pain is not the norm (*do any of your DH's who've had TESA/TESE still experience pain?*), he is sending DH off for bloods & an ultrasound. He also said that he would prefer to bypass the frozen sperm altogether & go for fresh as the fertilisation rate is not as good as fresh. Some good news girls:thumbup:; he said that using testicular sperm only affects fert rates by about 5%, so not too much of a disadvantage there!

He told us that it is a pity that money is an issue for us as he is 'very confident that he could get us a baby _eventually_'. He said that just as a fertile couple may need _many_ cycles to fall pregnant, so may we & that at my 'advanced maternal age miscarriage is a real risk' (as we've already experienced).

So, we came away feeling a bit blah:shrug:, just kind of mixed emotions. As whilst it was lovely to hear that he felt confident he could _eventually_ get us a baby, it may take several cycles. We had decided that we could _beg, borrow or steal_ enough for 1 more full stim cycle & any frozens that we might be lucky enough to get, but that would be it... It just kind of bummed us out that whether or not we have a child may all come down to finances. 

I know that all you gals understand the stresses, financial & otherwise that this bloody IVF business can place on us & you are all a godsend! It is so lovely not to feel alone in this:hugs: I feel bad for complaining as I know that there are many on this thread who would love their DH to have sperm found, I am so sorry if I sound ungrateful. But for us, in some ways it feels useless if we can't afford to have the op to get it out. I'm not sure how Aus compares to the US & UK? We are looking at 12k for my IVF & 5k for DH's procedure, then we get 5k back from medicare (our govt healthcare).
Thanks for listening; told y'all it was a long one.


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## deafgal01

MJ- No worries about venting. :hugs: That is a tough decision to make. :wacko: Wow... to go thru with that and risk not getting pregnant (and have more debt on account of that) or find a way to get pregnant with all the risks known... Hmmm... I wouldn't know what to do in your shoes. It's good you got to ask lots of questions. It is a bit of good news that they are able to use fresh sperm rather than thaw out the frozen ones. 

It is a bummer that it has to cost us all so much to just get one baby in our arms when it's "free" to make a baby for other people. :nope: It ain't fair. It should be free to make a baby for all who wants one. :shrug: Then the only costs we'd have to worry about is the prenatal and post-pregnancy care. :shrug:


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## wibble wobble

MJ so sorry your facing such a difficult situation. You don't need to feel bad that you have sperm and some of us don't. 

In a way I'm happy now that none were found at our biopsy, it's given us the chance to move on which wouldn't have happened if there was sperm present. Who wouldn't want to cling on to the hope that they could one day have their husbands biological baby. 

Your Ivf cycles seem to be pretty expensive, I'll have to find out what the exchange rate is. I checked out prices to go private when we first got diagnosed and the Tese was £2200, and an icsi cycle was around £5000 on top of that we would have had to pay for blood tests so maybe an extra £1500 for those... way too much money for me to afford at the minute.

Hope everyone is well and resting up (Deb) I'm off to the Ivf open evening tonight it's a 2 hour thing I can see us leaving and hubby asking me all the questions that the professionals have just answered! Not sure if I've said either but I've had a date for my results follow up March 20th... so that'll be everything done almost exactly a year after we sat in the Gp's office and he told us ZERO (That was march 18 2011,The day life changed forever)

On the pain after surgery, I don't think my hubby has any, he hasn't mentioned it anyway and men are such wimps that love attention for anything (or maybe thats just mine!)


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## KB38

OMG, I've just spent an hour trying to catch up on everything. Its amazing how much goes on in two weeks when you haven't been on here for a while!!! DH and I had a lovely time away. It was just the break I/we needed to clear our heads.

When we came back DH and I have decided we would get things rolling and my first job has been to find a FS that I trust. We're booked in to see a new one on 9 March 2012. While we are at it, we have decided to talk to the donor coordinator, do our counselling and tick all the other boxes so that we are ready to go if we decide to go with a donor.

We've been told that it's likely to take some time to find a donor (like up to 6 months). I'm trying to be positive about it as it will give us time to go on an overseas holiday and for me to get healthy before we start but I just want to get this baby making happenng!!! 

MJ could I ask you a quick question? What sort of specialist is your DH seeing? I'm getting confused by the inconsistent information about what standard Aust practice is. ...


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## Deb111

MJ - we paid pretty much £12K for our synchronised cycle including the mTESE - the IVF side of things for me could have been done cheaper but we had to use the lister because of the surgey hubby was having and the fact that it was synchronous


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## CanadianMaple

It's such a shame that any of this costs us even a dollar. It just adds to the unfairness and I really hope that someday they realize this is truly a medical issue and we shouldn't have to go bankrupt to have a baby. It's not like we are all wanting plastic surgery or something.

Can someone help me take a guess at what's going on with DH? My fertility clinic did genetic and hormone testing on him. They said they will not refer him until the genetic results are in to see the urologist. They said it could be May. I asked today if his hormone results were in. She said his LH was "a bit" high, not really high. His testosterone was "a bit" low. She didn't give numbers and didn't want to really guess or discuss it with me. No mention of the FSH, which I think is good? Does it sound like it could be testicular failure or should I be a little bit hopeful?


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## raelynn

I completely agree with the finances issue. Ideally, we'd like to do a microTESE but (at least here) insurance covers none of it and we just cannot handle the costs on top of IVF unless we are willing to forgo all our plans for after kids (like moving closer to family). It is a terrible situation to be in knowing that we are making major decisions about our chances of creating our ideal family based simply on money. I wish money was the lowest factor in these decisions not the leading factor.

CM - Sorry I can't be of too much help but when we saw the urologist, he told us the elevated FSH level indicated testicular failure. I've read that elevated LH can be the brain's way of trying to deal with low testosterone so maybe they'll be able to treat with clomid or something to help with the testosterone levels?


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## God give me

Hi,
I read many of the pages because my husband suffers from the same problem. I am 27 and also my husband.
We got married 4 years ago
I want to be joined to you I do not speak English very well. I know a few of the words and the rest do I translate it.
My Story
My husband is my cousin. He loves me and I also love him very much and when we got married was a beautiful day (thank God)
One year later we found out that my husband is suffering from infertility, small testes size.


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## God give me

my name is Noora, I wish become your friend.

I ask my God
To give
Us
Children


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## God give me

lukasandy said:


> hi ladies, i have a question related to azoospermia.. Can it be healed with natural supplements or alternative medications? anyone who have some experience with it, please help me.. Thanks.

:thumbup:

Have you ever asked yourself what is the cause of diabetes?
Have you ever asked yourself what is the cause of anemia?

Each disease has a cause may be hormone deficiency or vitamin or amino acids.
Well
Zero sperm has a cause. Will we get the result when we make all the hormones in the normal range and address the lack of Alvaitaminat.
I know men have a zero sperm in the testicle and even got to address food supplements came out full of sperm.


That, God willing, I will write later
Nutritional supplements and amino acids used by men to one year and left the sperm in the semen


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## Deb111

Noora

I would suggest your husband sees a specialist
They might be able to tell you the cause


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## Sar187

Mum-Your little one is so precious. So sorry that the L&D didn't go quite as planned but so happy to see a healthy baby at the end!

Luv-Welcome! This is an awesome group of ladies!

wibble-So glad to hear things are going well for you and that things might move faster than you though!

Rae-It is so hard sometimes to make these decisions with all the financials involved. We were lucky enough that my in-laws loaned us the money to pay for IVF # 2 or I would still be waiting to try again. The total cost for DH's surgery, some of which was covered by insurance, was somewhere around $7,000 that includes both the surgery and processing the samples to ready them for ICSI. There was also a $225 charge to freeze.

Deb-Great news! I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I've heard that there is a higher chance of implantation occurring and sticking when the embryo is hatching already at transfer time! All I can say is do everything you can to keep yourself relaxed and positive until you test, Our mind has so much more control over our bodies than we realize sometimes. Hugs!

MJ-I think the view of frozen vs. fresh sperm really depends on the dr. We were told and all research I did pointed to the fact that frozen sperm gives almost exactly the same outcome as fresh sperm. We actually had better embryos with our 2nd cycle which used frozen sperm than with our all fresh cycle, though I have no idea if that had something to do with my egg quality or the sperm quality, though the Dr. seemed to think it was sperm quality. Our fertilization rate was between between 25 and 30% with ICSI for both of our cycles. As to pain after TESE, DH doesn't necessarily have pain, however he does say his left ball especially where the incision was done at is still "sensitive" and still feels differently than his other one. As I told Rae-DH's TESE was around $7000 plus freezing fees. Our IVF cycles were around $12,000 each, not including meds or monitoring, however a lot was covered by insurance for our first cycle, our 2nd cycle our insurance was maxed so that was completely out of pocket. My meds were about $4000 per cycle but I only paid $950 out of pocket total.

AFM-OB appointment on Wednesday was fairly uneventful, we did get to hear our baby's heartbeat again, however we didn't get an ultrasound which we were both of the understanding we would be getting since the fertility clinic had wanted us to have one around this time. So we requested one and will be getting one next week. The good news is that the heartbeat was strong and healthy! I got lots of information and stuff this time around that I need to go through so that should keep me busy. 

I hope anyone I missed is doing well!


----------



## Deb111

Sar - so great that things are going well with you and your LO :thumbup:

We were also told that frozen can be as successful as fresh because it takes the element of selection out of the process. It is not down to the enbryologist to hunt out the BEST sperm (and I don't know how detailed they can be with that info anyway), but down to a process of natural selection. They know that the ones that survive the thaw are fab quality sperms!


----------



## raelynn

Thanks Sar. Did you have microTESE or non micro? We finally heard back from the financial adviser at the urologists and she quoted us about $10,000 for microTESE and $4,000 for biopsy/mapping. DH is strongly leaning towards the biopsy/mapping so far in favor of us not putting too much of a financial strain on us. I hadn't even thought about the insurance running out if we needed round 2 so that is something else to factor in as well.


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## silverbell

Happy 12 weeks, Sar :dance: So glad that all is going very well and that you'll get an USS next week.


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## Deb111

Not having a good day today girls - I'm scared :cry:


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## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> Not having a good day today girls - I'm scared :cry:

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


----------



## Pink Lolly

:hugs: Deb - keep that PMA up xxx


Congrats Sar on being 12 weeks, that time has flown xxx


----------



## snd80

Deb111 said:


> Not having a good day today girls - I'm scared :cry:

Why Deb? :hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi Gals,
Hope everything is ok Deb?
Wow the rest of you have been busy. 
We went to see a sperm donor/IUI consultant and he wants us to get going in the next couple of months!!!
I have to have some testing, a Hycosy and Antral Follicle, have any of you guys had these? 
AND we have to select our top 3 sperm donors, this is so hard, I didn't realise how hard it would be. You girls that have done this, have you any tips? 
Hope you guys are having a nice weekend :)


----------



## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Hi Gals,
> Hope everything is ok Deb?
> Wow the rest of you have been busy.
> We went to see a sperm donor/IUI consultant and he wants us to get going in the next couple of months!!!
> I have to have some testing, a Hycosy and Antral Follicle, have any of you guys had these?
> AND we have to select our top 3 sperm donors, this is so hard, I didn't realise how hard it would be. You girls that have done this, have you any tips?
> Hope you guys are having a nice weekend :)

That's great news, WANBMUM :happydance:

I'm not sure what those 2 tests are - I had to have an HSG and various blood tests such as AMH, CMV status, Hep B and C, HIV and so on.

We had to choose our sperm donor (just 1) this past week. We only had a list of 9 and most of them were unsuitable, so it wasn't too difficult for us. The 2 features we most wanted were height (as we're both 6 foot tall) and eye colour (as we're both blue-eyed). This eliminated most of the donors to be honest and made our selection much easier.

Are you in the US? I imagine you get a much higher number over there. How many are on the list? What sort of information are you given? For us it was eye colour, height, hair colour and build and that was it - so it wasn't too tough. I imagine the more information you're given the harder it becomes.


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## Sar187

Rae-as far as I know regular TESE, our Dr. went in ready to do either MESA or TESE however the epididymis was too scarred for him to feel MESA would be successful. The TESE he did uses an incision in the scrotum and a microscope to examine testicular tissue to decide where to take from. He then used a testicular biopsy gun to take tissue samples. I have no idea how many samples he took but we ended up with enough sperm to fertilize 13 eggs from that fresh cycle and to freeze 6 vials(no clue how many sperm per vial). 

Pink-It really has, I can't believe I'm 12 weeks already!

Deb-I was so scared going into our 2nd cycle that things weren't going to work, but it seemed so different from our 1st that it gave me hope. I can imagine its especially hard when you are doing a frozen cycle and know a failure will mean another fresh. Do your best to keep busy with other things. I am certainly thinking of you right now ((HUGS)).

Wanbmum-I'm not sure what those tests are, for IVF I had to do a hysterosonogram and communicable disease testing, HIV, Hepatitis etc., I also had to have rh factor testing done. I can't help on the donor, but it is so great to hear that you are moving along and things really seem to be moving fast for you now!


----------



## silverbell

Thinking of you Deb :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Thanks girls - nothing has happened - just having a very down day, feeling like this cycle has failed and thinking I'll never see those 2 lines :nope:

Wanbmum - found this info for you https://www.privatehealth.co.uk/hospitaltreatment/find-a-treatment/infertility-treatment/infertility-treatment-ivf-guide/infertility-investigations/hycosy/

And an antral follicle count is just to check the number of follicles you have - it's a good indicator of ovarian reserve - it's just done with the dildo cam


----------



## MoBaby

hi deb dont be down! i know the feeling though. im sure things will be great!

ive been missing from this thread for a bit; so much has happened with everyone! my updates are in my sig...we are on to cycle 3..we have been lucky to have had just enough spermies to use each time but we havent had any frosties so we are on to another fresh.. i think i have to go back to step one because it will be may again before we can try again and i will need another saline sonogram before proceeding.


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## Deb111

So sorry to read about your MMC MoBaby - hope you're doing ok xx :hugs:


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## Sar187

Mobaby-So sorry to hear about the MMC. I can imagine how devastating it is. Having no frosties is so frustrating each time. I will be praying for you in your decision making. ((Hugs)).


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## silverbell

So sorry to hear of the MMC, MoBaby :hugs:


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## tigerlily1975

I'm so sorry, MoBaby :hugs:

C xx


----------



## cosita

Hi girls, 
Just a little update. OH got biochemical results and fructose and citric acid seem normal, however citric acid has lowered significantly (halved) since the last SA (hes been taking vits). Dont really know what that means. The ph is always on the high side ranging from 7.8 to 7.9. 
Anyway, I had my first visit with gynae on Friday which was a frightful experience. Lets just say that she was a very cold woman and didnt reveal any of her sensitive side. So I´m not sure about all the terminology so bare with me. 
She gave me what I can only describe as an internal ultra sound. She didnt explain to me at any time what she was doing so.... Anyway she seems to think I have a bicornute(!) uterus. I´ve googled it and it doesnt seem to be the best of news. So I have to go for blood tests during my period and right after it for a hsg (is that the correct abbreviation?). Then on March 20th I have an appt for a 
scan. Is this all pretty routine? Ugghhh...


----------



## raelynn

Cosita, I don't know about the bicornute uterus but the rest is very routine. I had two regular ultrasounds, 2 internal ultrasounds, 2 sets of blood tests, and an HSG before we even found out about hubby's NOA. The tests are all just to check your hormone levels, whether you are ovulating, and if there are any blockages in your tubes. Although, with azoospermia most of this doesn't matter if they're going to do IVF anyway since they stimulate ovulation but I guess it is so they can figure out what drugs to put you on and which plan will work best for you.


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## Deb111

Sounds like you've been introduced to 'dildo cam' corsita! :wacko: Sorry you had an insensitive gynae - people like that shouldn't be in this kind of job :growlmad:


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## deafgal01

Cosita is that a heart shaped uterus with wall dividing up the uterus? My dr said my uterus is heart shaped so I had to get a second ultrasound to look at that in 3d but based off that mine is nothing to be concerned about. :shrug: hope it's not bad news for you. :hugs: that is awful you got that done without being told or explained. Boo.


----------



## WANBMUM

silverbell said:


> We had to choose our sperm donor (just 1) this past week. We only had a list of 9 and most of them were unsuitable, so it wasn't too difficult for us. The 2 features we most wanted were height (as we're both 6 foot tall) and eye colour (as we're both blue-eyed). This eliminated most of the donors to be honest and made our selection much easier.
> 
> Are you in the US? I imagine you get a much higher number over there. How many are on the list? What sort of information are you given? For us it was eye colour, height, hair colour and build and that was it - so it wasn't too tough. I imagine the more information you're given the harder it becomes.

Thanks Silverbell. I think one of my tests is to make sure my fallopian tubes are ok and the other is the check my eggs. So fingers crossed. 

I wish we did have only 9 to chose from, our consultant uses a Danish clinic, we have *OVER 500* to chose from and yes I definitely think the more info you have the harder it is to chose. Some of them have baby pictures, there is the nurses view of the donors personality, family tree and a personal questionnaire; education, temperament type questions. What we narrow it down with is, hair colour and eye colour. I feel so much pressure chosing, I know there is not a wrong choice, but its overwhelming at times. 
We will get there I guess :)
What is the next step for you now Silverbell?


----------



## WANBMUM

Deb111 said:


> Thanks girls - nothing has happened - just having a very down day, feeling like this cycle has failed and thinking I'll never see those 2 lines :nope:
> 
> Wanbmum - found this info for you https://www.privatehealth.co.uk/hospitaltreatment/find-a-treatment/infertility-treatment/infertility-treatment-ivf-guide/infertility-investigations/hycosy/
> 
> And an antral follicle count is just to check the number of follicles you have - it's a good indicator of ovarian reserve - it's just done with the dildo cam

Thanks Deb! 
Great the old dildo cam, I cant WAIT for that :thumbup:
hehehe
Is it really horrible? I take it there is no joy from it at all :haha:


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## WANBMUM

Aw Mobaby, there really is nothing I can say, so sorry. Hope you are doing ok and keeping your chin up as much as you can :) x


----------



## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Thanks girls - nothing has happened - just having a very down day, feeling like this cycle has failed and thinking I'll never see those 2 lines :nope:
> 
> Wanbmum - found this info for you https://www.privatehealth.co.uk/hospitaltreatment/find-a-treatment/infertility-treatment/infertility-treatment-ivf-guide/infertility-investigations/hycosy/
> 
> And an antral follicle count is just to check the number of follicles you have - it's a good indicator of ovarian reserve - it's just done with the dildo cam
> 
> Thanks Deb!
> Great the old dildo cam, I cant WAIT for that :thumbup:
> hehehe
> Is it really horrible? I take it there is no joy from it at all :haha:Click to expand...

Honestly ... it's nice the most pleasant experience, but I REALLY struggle with smear tests but find the dildo cam much easier to deal with. I must have had it about 15 times now for various things and different cycles and I honestly don't give it a second thought. if I can do it; trust me; you can :thumbup:


----------



## raelynn

Deb111 said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Thanks girls - nothing has happened - just having a very down day, feeling like this cycle has failed and thinking I'll never see those 2 lines :nope:
> 
> Wanbmum - found this info for you https://www.privatehealth.co.uk/hospitaltreatment/find-a-treatment/infertility-treatment/infertility-treatment-ivf-guide/infertility-investigations/hycosy/
> 
> And an antral follicle count is just to check the number of follicles you have - it's a good indicator of ovarian reserve - it's just done with the dildo cam
> 
> Thanks Deb!
> Great the old dildo cam, I cant WAIT for that :thumbup:
> hehehe
> Is it really horrible? I take it there is no joy from it at all :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> Honestly ... it's nice the most pleasant experience, but I REALLY struggle with smear tests but find the dildo cam much easier to deal with. I must have had it about 15 times now for various things and different cycles and I honestly don't give it a second. if I can do it; trust me; you can :thumbup:Click to expand...

I agree with Deb. It is probably one of the easier procedures/tests we have to deal with. Other than having someone messing around down there yet again (which I would assume most of us have gotten over from all the doctors and tests) its not really a big deal. Not painful or anything (at least not for me). I usually end up watching the screen the whole time so I pretty much forget about what is even going on down there.


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## SunUp

Wow! We are up to 200 pages on here!


----------



## silverbell

cosita said:


> Hi girls,
> She gave me what I can only describe as an internal ultra sound. She didnt explain to me at any time what she was doing so.... Anyway she seems to think I have a bicornute(!) uterus. I´ve googled it and it doesnt seem to be the best of news. So I have to go for blood tests during my period and right after it for a hsg (is that the correct abbreviation?). Then on March 20th I have an appt for a
> scan. Is this all pretty routine? Ugghhh...

Hey, cosita. Not saying it'll be the same for you, but I was told the same thing when I had my dildo-cam, but when I had the HSG scan it showed that I didn't have a bircornuate uterus at all but I did have a weird 'pinching' of the tubes on each side, though this didn't stop the dye going through and I was told it could simply be a contraction in response to the dye. I had another dildo-cam a couple of weeks ago by the specialist at the Fertility Clinic and she said there are absolutely no problems at all and everything looks very normal. So my advice would be to try not to worry and focus too much on this - it's the scan that is more accurate.

Yes, the bloods etc are all very routine. They just want to check that everything's OK your end so that you have the highest chance of success when it comes to ICSI/IVF etc (or for donor if you're using this as a backup).



WANBMUM said:


> I wish we did have only 9 to chose from, our consultant uses a Danish clinic, we have *OVER 500* to chose from and yes I definitely think the more info you have the harder it is to chose. Some of them have baby pictures, there is the nurses view of the donors personality, family tree and a personal questionnaire; education, temperament type questions. What we narrow it down with is, hair colour and eye colour. I feel so much pressure chosing, I know there is not a wrong choice, but its overwhelming at times.
> We will get there I guess :)
> What is the next step for you now Silverbell?

Blimey! That must be tough. Well I would cross out all the ones that don't fit the hair and eye colour. Then look at those and decide on one more feature or characteristic you don't really want and cross them off ... and so on. Eventually you should have whittled it down quite a bit. I'm sorry you have such a difficult decision ahead of you!

Next step is literally ringing the clinic on day 1 of my next AF (due mid-March) so they can get me in by day 3 to show me how to do the injections and give me the drugs and then it's a scan the following week and hopefully (all being well with the scan) donor insemination the following week. I'm so excited now! :flower:


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## Deb111

In total shock!!!!!
 



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## deafgal01

:wohoo: So pleased to hear about you getting your bfp, Deb! :yipee: About time we got to see another bfp on here.


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## WANBMUM

Deb111 said:


> In total shock!!!!!


OMFG!!!!!! Deb, so so happy and excited for you! Ah you must be in so much shock! How many dpo are you?
It's about time we seen a bfp on here, it's been too long! 
X


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## mumanddad

Woohoo congratulations you deserve it sooooooooooooooooooooooo much xxc


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## MJ73

Deb111 said:


> In total shock!!!!!

*DEB!!!! *That is such a strong positive so early! OMG!:happydance: I've got tears in my eyes. Told you that emby looked beautiful. So happy for you hun. A massive internet HUG :hugs:


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## Pink Lolly

Well done Deb - they are two beautiful lines! :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9: xxxxxx


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## Pink Lolly

silverbell said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> I wish we did have only 9 to chose from, our consultant uses a Danish clinic, we have *OVER 500* to chose from and yes I definitely think the more info you have the harder it is to chose. Some of them have baby pictures, there is the nurses view of the donors personality, family tree and a personal questionnaire; education, temperament type questions. What we narrow it down with is, hair colour and eye colour. I feel so much pressure chosing, I know there is not a wrong choice, but its overwhelming at times.
> We will get there I guess :)
> What is the next step for you now Silverbell?
> 
> Blimey! That must be tough. Well I would cross out all the ones that don't fit the hair and eye colour. Then look at those and decide on one more feature or characteristic you don't really want and cross them off ... and so on. Eventually you should have whittled it down quite a bit. I'm sorry you have such a difficult decision ahead of you!
> 
> Next step is literally ringing the clinic on day 1 of my next AF (due mid-March) so they can get me in by day 3 to show me how to do the injections and give me the drugs and then it's a scan the following week and hopefully (all being well with the scan) donor insemination the following week. I'm so excited now! :flower:Click to expand...

We were only given the ones that were a potential match so they all had the right hair and eye colour. We only had 4 to choose from - the additional info we had was height and blood group. xx


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## silverbell

:cloud9: Absolutely over the moon for our Deb :friends:

She's waited so bloody long and shed so many tears and so much heartache. 

I'm overjoyed!

See - we knew a Valentine's transfer with a beautiful hatching embie were all good signs, didn't we? :thumbup:


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## Pink Lolly

Deb you need to update the front page! :happydance: :happydance:


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## raelynn

Sooooo happy for you Deb!! Congrats!


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## tigerlily1975

Yaaaaaaay, Deb!! :happydance::happydance::happydance: Whoop! Whoop!!

C xx


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## snd80

:happydance: :happydance: :happydance: :happydance: Deb! I can't dance enough for youuuuuuuu!!!! You SO SO SO deserve it! You have been our rock through this shitty journey and I am extatic that you finally got what you have worked soooo hard for! I am literally tearing up for you!!!!!


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## Sar187

That is an absolutely BEAUTIFUL BFP Deb!!! Congrats again!


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## Luvoboe

Yay deb!! I'm new here but I did start from the first page and know that your journey has not been easy. I am so happy to hear about your positive test! Have a happy and healthy nine months!!


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## Deb111

So symptoms so far (to be honest - all things that I could have put down to something else or not really thought twice about if I wasn't super-aware)

- sense of smell is very accute!! Not that things are making me feel ill, just REALLY noticing things

- needing to eat something before my usual 10.30 in the morning - didn't feel sick this morning, just felt weak and empty and a bit woozy before I had a biscuit before work


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## WANBMUM

Just got my results and I haven't got a clue what they mean, I only spoke to the receptionist:
Eastro 358
Progesterone 14.4
LH 6.6
Fsh 5.3

If anyone can help I'd be grateful. Oh ya, it was day 19 as it fell on a weekend. 

Hey gals can any of you help me out?


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## WANBMUM

Ps it's for my day 21 bloods :)


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## snd80

Well, my hsg test has been moved to this afternoon, and I am soooo nervous!!! My dumb question is..... where does the dye go after it is injected? I mean, will I be peeing blue, or will it come out the "other" end? LOL! Me being me, I'm always thinking ahead!


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## SunUp

Hey SND! They gave me a wipe and a pad. Afterwards I went to the bathroom, wiped off down there and wore the pad for a few hours- Its not much dye at all so I didn't really even need it long. The dye can be a little sticky though.


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Just got my results and I haven't got a clue what they mean, I only spoke to the receptionist:
> Eastro 358
> Progesterone 14.4
> LH 6.6
> Fsh 5.3
> 
> If anyone can help I'd be grateful. Oh ya, it was day 19 as it fell on a weekend.
> 
> Hey gals can any of you help me out?

They look OK to me at first glance. I think they like Progesterone to be at 15 or above 7dpo, but as you were early testing and almost at 15 I'm sure this isn't a problem. Are you getting the results explained to you by a GP or clinic etc?



snd80 said:


> Well, my hsg test has been moved to this afternoon, and I am soooo nervous!!! My dumb question is..... where does the dye go after it is injected? I mean, will I be peeing blue, or will it come out the "other" end? LOL! Me being me, I'm always thinking ahead!

:haha: The dye is absorbed by your body, which is why some women experience cramping afterwards. Sometimes a bit of dye can escape vaginally - I was told to wear a pad, but only had a tiny bit come out. You'll be fine. Let us know how you get on :hugs:


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## raelynn

SND - Same for me as the other girls. They gave me a pad and sent me to the bathroom to wipe up but there wasn't much that came out. I wore the pad but barely anything even got on it. Most is absorbed. Good luck!

As for me - we're off to the FS again today for them to finally give us all the details for our IVF round since we've jumped through all the hoops taken all our tests and seen the urologist now.


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## snd80

Thanks girls! I am fixing to leave to head off to the hospital.. it may be tomorrow before I get back on here. Thanks for all the good lucks! I told my hubby if all goes wrong, I am going straight to the car lot and buying a brand new convertible and taking my losses!!! LOL!


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## Deb111

snd - all the best for today - will be thinking fo you

wanbmum - I can't remember them all but your FSH is great - they like it to be below 10 so that's fab :thumbup:


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## Pink Lolly

SND hope it went ok - the thought of it is worse and its all over super quick. :thumbup:

Wanb - sorry I cant help with the levels but let us know what the GP says! xxx


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## WANBMUM

snd80 said:


> Thanks girls! I am fixing to leave to head off to the hospital.. it may be tomorrow before I get back on here. Thanks for all the good lucks! I told my hubby if all goes wrong, I am going straight to the car lot and buying a brand new convertible and taking my losses!!! LOL!

I hope everything went well for you! Dream on about the convertible, its baby buggies all the way! x


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## WANBMUM

silverbell said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Just got my results and I haven't got a clue what they mean, I only spoke to the receptionist:
> Eastro 358
> Progesterone 14.4
> LH 6.6
> Fsh 5.3
> 
> If anyone can help I'd be grateful. Oh ya, it was day 19 as it fell on a weekend.
> 
> Hey gals can any of you help me out?
> 
> They look OK to me at first glance. I think they like Progesterone to be at 15 or above 7dpo, but as you were early testing and almost at 15 I'm sure this isn't a problem. Are you getting the results explained to you by a GP or clinic etc?Click to expand...

Hi Silverbell, thanks. I have an appointment with a new gynae on Tuesday, to get our IUI rolling, she will be doing tests to check my tubes etc. I just wanted to have on paper confirmation that I had ovulated, I got the blood tests with my gp, in the hope it would speed things up. Not that I am the inpatient type of course ;)


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## luckdragon

congratulations Deb  , hope all you other ladies are ok, sorry it's been a while. wishing you all bfps soon xxxxxxx


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## MoBaby

DEB!!! OMG!!! How freaking amazing!! CONGRATS!! Those lines rock :) Sooooo happy for you!!!


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## raelynn

So ladies, back from the FS and it put me into a minor meltdown today. Blame that on PMS hormones. We got the official IVF rundown today and originally thought we'd be starting in April or May, turns out they're starting us as soon as my next AF. Usually this would be a long ways away since I have PCOS and usually see AF every 2-3 months but of course, she's due in the next day or so. Things are moving so fast and now all the decisions we need to make and so on are making me nervous! I have to call in when AF starts for day 3 ultrasound (again) since the last 2 times my obgyn didn't request a follicle count and to have the mock transfer done. I've been just trying to get through all this waiting and suddenly things are moving at full speed. How do you ladies who have been through this already deal?


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## WANBMUM

Raelynn, (is that your name or a Makey uppy? Cos just realized it would be a lovely name for a baby girl - it's cute)
So excited to hear you are starting ASAP! You've been waiting long enough so embrace all of it. This is your time! :) x


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## deafgal01

Snd- hope you're doing alright.

Rae- that's awesome news- that they want to move forward as soon your next AF comes. :thumbup: Good luck to you.

Deb- congrats on getting your bfp! It's been long awaited and very much and very well deserved... Long time overdue I think but I know this baby will be so loved by you and the rest of us. :hugs:

How's everyone else doing? I'm just stuck in not preventing, not trying limbo while I wait to see how the medicine works for DH.


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## raelynn

WANBMUM said:


> Raelynn, (is that your name or a Makey uppy? Cos just realized it would be a lovely name for a baby girl - it's cute)
> So excited to hear you are starting ASAP! You've been waiting long enough so embrace all of it. This is your time! :) x


Thanks WANBMUM its a made up name, combination of some of my nicknames :)


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## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Hi Silverbell, thanks. I have an appointment with a new gynae on Tuesday, to get our IUI rolling, she will be doing tests to check my tubes etc. I just wanted to have on paper confirmation that I had ovulated, I got the blood tests with my gp, in the hope it would speed things up. Not that I am the inpatient type of course ;)

You remind me of myself. I did the same. I literally got us to do everything we could to speed up our treatments ... and it still took months and months! I dread to think how long it would have all dragged on for had I just left them to it.



raelynn said:


> So ladies, back from the FS and it put me into a minor meltdown today. Blame that on PMS hormones. We got the official IVF rundown today and originally thought we'd be starting in April or May, turns out they're starting us as soon as my next AF. Usually this would be a long ways away since I have PCOS and usually see AF every 2-3 months but of course, she's due in the next day or so. Things are moving so fast and now all the decisions we need to make and so on are making me nervous! I have to call in when AF starts for day 3 ultrasound (again) since the last 2 times my obgyn didn't request a follicle count and to have the mock transfer done. I've been just trying to get through all this waiting and suddenly things are moving at full speed. How do you ladies who have been through this already deal?

I know you must be nervous, but it's also incredibly exciting! I'm so pleased for you :hugs:

I had a fairly similar experience a couple of weeks back when I went to the Fertility Clinic for the first time. They literally said I could start with donor sperm straight away and when was my next AF. I told them it was the following week and they said we could start then! In the end we actually cancelled this and decided to wait until my next cycle, as it all seemed too much of a rush but there were other things that needed to be sorted prior to that (test results back etc) as well as sorting annual leave out and not having enough leave left etc. I'm lucky though, as my cycles are very regular and short, so waiting another cycle wasn't the end of the world (though it was a very tough decision to make).

I do think that this azoospermia business does make us literally get used to waiting and so when suddenly something speeds up we don't quite know how to deal with it. This is how I felt. You get used to waiting and waiting.

So excited for you. I'm sure over the next few days the panic will ease and you'll start looking forward to it. I know we're all rooting for you.


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## Sar187

Rae-It as some of the other ladies have said it can be a combination of exciting and really scary when you realize it is happening so soon. My first cycle was exhausting in that I had no idea what to really expect and didn't know for sure if we had sperm to work with for DH(we opted out of a donor backup). I'm sure the decisions will come as they need to. Also if your clinic is putting you on a BCP cycle you will most likely be on BCP for at least 2 weeks before you start any of the IVF meds. both of my cycles they had me on the pill for 20-30 days before starting any of the other meds. Will be thinking of you!

AFM-We had our ultrasound yesterday and baby M is actually starting to look like a baby now! We are measuring 1 day behind but that is perfectly normal and definitely acceptable for me! It was awesome to see our baby moving around a bit. My ovaries are definitely looking more normal now which is also awesome. Baby's heartbeat was at 160bpm and the u/s tech said everything looked good.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello ladies :hi:

How are you all doing today? Man, this thread is moving, lots going on, which is great! :thumbup:

Deb, how are you doing? When do you need to go for blood work/tests etc? It's just so... awesome! :happydance:

Sun, glad the HSG went well :hugs:

SND, hope your HSG was okay.. With all these tests we have to suffer, you begin to understand how the turkey feels on Christmas morning! :haha:

WanB, I wish I could help, hun. Hopefully your Dr will go over them with you. I didn't even get the levels from our consultant, he just said "it's fine, just lose weight". Hmm, I think the 'bedside manner' was MIA that day! :wacko:

Rae, wow, that is fast! I guess sometimes it's good that things are moving along, stops you from having time to think about everything. The sooner you get moving, the sooner you'll have that baby, darling! And don't forget, we're all here supporting you all the way :hugs:

SilverBell, gosh, I didn't realise your cycle was that soon! How are you feeling? Keeping everything crossed for you, hun, we 'Azoo Aunties' (love it!) want lots of nieces and nephews to coo over! :hugs:

MoBaby, hope you're doing okay, darling :hugs: 

DeafGal, fingers crossed the medicine does the trick you and have a nice little surprise on the way :hugs:

I'm sorry if I've missed anyone, I'm sure I have (I'm a real 'blonde' at times!), big :hugs: and positive vibes heading your way.

AFM, well, we got our TESE appointment through, so roll on 23rd April (cue little shriek in my head). We have the follow-up appointment on the 16th May - three days before our wedding anniversary, so it'll either be the best or the worst anniversary imaginable. Gulp.

We still don't know what we're going to do about using a donor. We've discussed it a little, but DH's response is always "let's decide when we know for sure" (he's a scientist, it's always about the results *bangs head off brick wall*). I know he thinks this is all HIM, but he forgets that I'm 37 in June and my eggs are not exactly in cracking (excuse the pun) condition and time is against me/us.

The only thing we have agreed upon is if it's bad news, we're booking a lovely, exotic holiday. I can't remember who said it, but you need things to look forward to when you're dealing with all this, well, cr*p. 

I hope you all have a marvellous weekend. The sun is popping through here in London, so I'm hoping it's here to stay!

Much love, 

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Sar, that's fantastic! It must be amazing to see your baby on the scan. Hope you're feeling well - no morning sickness!

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## snd80

:cry: Well girls, yesterday was one of those days that I wish never happened..... one of my tubes is completely blocked. I cried the whole way home. Even though they said I could still get pregnant from the other one, it is just so hurtful that we already have all these odds stacked against us than to add this to it. So, I am going from a 10% chance per try now to about a 2% per try! I feel like just curling up in a ball and giving up!!! Why in the hell does this have to be soooooo damn complicated for us?! Why can't we all just get pg the first time we get nutted in like everyone else?! I am seriously thinking of forgetting the whole effing thing! I don't think I can take much more heartbreak! If it is like this now, then when the time comes and it fails, IDK how I will cope?! I am just really over this.... He tried to open it and I about came off that table! I hurt so bad and I have bled like a stuck pig! Sorry for the rant, but it was a bad night and morning so far...


----------



## tigerlily1975

SND, I'm so, so, soooo sorry, darling :hugs: :hugs: You're absolutely right, it really just feels like we get one knock-back after another. Did the Dr say what they can do? Just try to remember that you CAN still get pregnant. The odds are stacked against most of us in this group, but we do get our miracles. Go smack a punch bag, have a good scream and eat a tub of ice-cream, whatever helps right now, hun. We're all here for you and we're not giving up on you. I know we can't be there in person, so you make sure you get lots of cuddles from hubby. I've said it before and I'll say it again, life can be a right b**ch at times. 

Take care, hun. Much love and BIG :hugs:

C xx


----------



## silverbell

Sar187 said:


> AFM-We had our ultrasound yesterday and baby M is actually starting to look like a baby now! We are measuring 1 day behind but that is perfectly normal and definitely acceptable for me! It was awesome to see our baby moving around a bit. My ovaries are definitely looking more normal now which is also awesome. Baby's heartbeat was at 160bpm and the u/s tech said everything looked good.

Great news about the scan! Sounds perfect :cloud9:



tigerlily1975 said:


> SilverBell, gosh, I didn't realise your cycle was that soon! How are you feeling? Keeping everything crossed for you, hun, we 'Azoo Aunties' (love it!) want lots of nieces and nephews to coo over! :hugs:
> 
> AFM, well, we got our TESE appointment through, so roll on 23rd April (cue little shriek in my head). We have the follow-up appointment on the 16th May - three days before our wedding anniversary, so it'll either be the best or the worst anniversary imaginable. Gulp.
> 
> The only thing we have agreed upon is if it's bad news, we're booking a lovely, exotic holiday. I can't remember who said it, but you need things to look forward to when you're dealing with all this, well, cr*p.

I am feeling good - I just want it to be time now. We're both very excited for the first time in a very, very long time. I know it'll be different once we're in that horrid 2ww and particularly if we get AF show up instead of a BFP, but for now we're excited and that's something we're enjoying feeling!

23 April is the day before my DH's birthday and is St George's Day. I do hope it's a good day for you.

I definitely agree that you should book a lovely holiday if it's bad news. We had booked to go away for the weekend we received our news and it was exactly what we needed. We just needed to be together, talk, cuddle and cry if we wanted. 

You're right - us azoo ladies and guys definitely need something to look forward to with all this crap. :thumbup:



snd80 said:


> :cry: Well girls, yesterday was one of those days that I wish never happened..... one of my tubes is completely blocked. I cried the whole way home. Even though they said I could still get pregnant from the other one, it is just so hurtful that we already have all these odds stacked against us than to add this to it. So, I am going from a 10% chance per try now to about a 2% per try! I feel like just curling up in a ball and giving up!!! Why in the hell does this have to be soooooo damn complicated for us?! Why can't we all just get pg the first time we get nutted in like everyone else?! I am seriously thinking of forgetting the whole effing thing! I don't think I can take much more heartbreak! If it is like this now, then when the time comes and it fails, IDK how I will cope?! I am just really over this.... He tried to open it and I about came off that table! I hurt so bad and I have bled like a stuck pig! Sorry for the rant, but it was a bad night and morning so far...

snd :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

I don't even know what to say. I am very thankful that you still have 1 normal tube, but I know right now you won't be thinking like that and it will all seem like a horrible nightmare. I think it was Deb who said in the past that us ladies have had so much crap to put up with and so much go on and then when it turns out there might actually be a problem with us and a further obstacle, everything feels like it's just falling apart. It's just another blow to an already vulnerable and suffering couple and it most definitely isn't fair at all. I had some bad news about a low AMH this week and it shook me up so much.

Don't forget that IVF is still an option, as tubes aren't required for that. I know you don't want to be thinking about IVF right now, but it's still an option in the future if you wished.

Who gave you the percentages for treatment? 10% seems very low for IUI. I was told it was around 20% for normal IUI (same as any average, fertile couple TTC) but with medication it increased to around 25/30%. Plus it seems weird going from 10% to 2% because of a single blocked tube??

Is it possible to get referred to see if they can unblock the tube for you surgically?

I really hope the bleeding stops soon, you poor thing.

I really don't know what to say, snd. I'm so sorry. I wish I could wave a wand and make it all better. Take your time just dealing with what you have been told and crying it out if you need to. Each day will get easier and I'm sure you'll both come to the right decision for you. Thinking of you lots :hugs:


----------



## snd80

Thank you girls... I am just really low right now. My specialist in Jackson told me there was a 10% chance per try in Nov, so calculate the odds now with all this shit and boom; there is your #. The drs office called me this morning with blood results from the 14th, and they didn't even know about the test results from yesterday. I had to tell the woman. She said doc was out til Mon and they would review them then and call me to discuss options. I hope there is a way they can monitor my ovaries each month to see which one is producing so I won't be throwing $1000 away on the "wrong one" at a try (if I even continue). Like I told her I might as well throw that grand in the street and let people fight over it if it is the wrong one's month! And I cannot afford IVF, so it is this or nothing at all. And lucky I even have the money for this, which btw I finally have all of, and now I am like for what??! To throw away?!

Poor hubby is trying his best to be optimistic enough for the both of us and can't understand why I am so down, and said we would continue forward til they told us there was no hope; but me, I can only seem to look at the dark side of things! What was so bad is on the way there we were talking and wishing... hubby said he hoped we would have a girl, talking about how things wouldn't change as much, that we would just have a new little tag-along on our adventures... so blissful and hopeful, now to this dark hush-hush reality of might-never-be's. I haven't even called my mother to tell her the outcome, but I know she knows it went bad cause I didn't call her yesterday after I got out. I just don't feel like talking to her, or anyone really. I know you girls understand cause we are all in this boat in some form or another, but for those who haven't been here don't understand. Like I've told her before, you had your kids, so you will never understand what I am _REALLY_ going through...

Maybe this cloud will lift in a bit, but for now I am where I am. Thanks again for the thoughts.... :hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

snd80 said:


> :cry: Well girls, yesterday was one of those days that I wish never happened..... one of my tubes is completely blocked. I cried the whole way home. Even though they said I could still get pregnant from the other one, it is just so hurtful that we already have all these odds stacked against us than to add this to it. So, I am going from a 10% chance per try now to about a 2% per try! I feel like just curling up in a ball and giving up!!! Why in the hell does this have to be soooooo damn complicated for us?! Why can't we all just get pg the first time we get nutted in like everyone else?! I am seriously thinking of forgetting the whole effing thing! I don't think I can take much more heartbreak! If it is like this now, then when the time comes and it fails, IDK how I will cope?! I am just really over this.... He tried to open it and I about came off that table! I hurt so bad and I have bled like a stuck pig! Sorry for the rant, but it was a bad night and morning so far...

Aw honey, I am so angry for you! It really is enough for your hubby and you to go through what you have been through, never mind this. Why is it so unfair? :cry:
Do they give a reason as to how it blocks? not that it makes a difference I guess. 
Hope you are ok, as well as you could be I guess. Just think, where there is a will there is a way and when you have hope, that is all you need. It is going to happen for you. 
:hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

SND - you are bound to feel low and dont feel bad for feeling like that. As you know yourself, its a rollercoaster and some days we are fine and other days everything is dark. Feel crap and who knows, it might lift. Your hubby sounds like such a sweetie, bless him. 
It breaks my heart to know how much money comes into our journey, but that is the reality, it sucks that money dictates our decisions and choices. My OH is a believer that the money will come from somewhere, I am the worrier of course and it kills me to think money will decide our fate. 
My consultant said it is a 20% chance with IUI, however he states those figures are not realistic and the reality is, there is a 50% chance, it is either going to work or it is not with each cycle. I like his thinking. 
sending you positive, shoulder to cry on hugs :)


----------



## Deb111

Gosh, so much to catch up on

- snd - so sorry sweetie - it's just another kick in the teeth, but like you say, they will be able to tell which side you are going to ovulate from with a scan and then only do it on the correct cycle. I really don't see that it should reduce your chances as long as you do it on the correct month. I know it's not quite the same, but I know my colleague's daughter had one of those dermoid cysts removed and was told she was unlikely to ever conceive naturally and would need IVF - she was pregnant in less than 4 months after they were allowed to TTC and with only one ovary. As you say, you need to wallow in it for the time being and why shouldn't you be allowed to? It sucks big time!! But you WILL get stronger and more positive every day and you WILL move on with this journey because you know how tough the alternative is. We are all here for you hun xx

Tiger - keeping everything crossed for the 23rd April :thumbup:

Sar - fab news that your scan went well and LO is looing like a real person

AFM, I came home to a lovely surprise today - some beautiful flowers and lovely card from the lovely Silverbell - I'm so touched - it's amazing the kindness and support that people we've never met can show - as I've said many times, I don't know where I'd be without you girls :kiss:

I phoned our Dr's surgery to see what happens next and I'm booked to see the midwife on Friday - so that's an optional HCG blood test I've chosen to have and pay for on Monday, probably a repeat blood test on Wed to check numbers are doubling and then midwife on Friday

Very exciting, but I have to say, every day is scary - I guess the waiting and worrying never ends


----------



## Sar187

Tiger-so glad to hear you got the TESE appointment, It will be here before you know it!

SND-So so sorry to hear about this. Just don't give up hope yet. Also remember that those odds you were given were most likely for a non-medicated cycle. While medicated IUI cycles are more expensive they can make you produce more than one egg which ups your chances of 1 producing an egg on the side with the good tube and 2 hopefully producing more than 1 on that side. They should be able to monitor your follicles during your cycle to see which side has the leading follicle, that leading follicle is usually the one that ovulates the egg for that cycle. You would still have to pay for the monitoring but you would be able to cancel if the good side didn't look like it was going to be the "winner" for that cycle. 

What you are feeling right now is perfectly normal and you are entitled to all the time you need to deal with the news. cry, get angry, yell if you have to, just remember we are all here for you.


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## Deb111

WANBMUM said:


> My consultant said it is a 20% chance with IUI, however he states those figures are not realistic and the reality is, there is a 50% chance, it is either going to work or it is not with each cycle. I like his thinking

That's exactly how I thought of it each time - we were given the statistics and when people asked I would say I'd no real idea - I honestly let them go in one ear and out the other. As you say, it either works or it doesn't - 50/50


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## Sar187

Deb-Hoping to hear some great numbers from you next week!


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## raelynn

SND I am so sorry. I can't imagine what a blow that must have been. I think all of us feel the same way, each new obstacle is just 10 times as traumatic since we're already fighting against all odds for our precious little ones.

As for me - I was starting to get excited about things starting to move along but then we got a call today from the fertility center letting us know that our insurance will not cover anything if we go along with a donor backup. We had pretty much come to terms with that plan knowing that there is a very good chance we won't find any of hubby's sperm to use and now we find out our main plan is going to double our costs. I don't know what to think. Now we have another huge decision before us and we have to wait until next week for the financial adviser to call us with specifics. Nothing is easy and AF is toying with me as I expected a temp drop today since it is CD 13 but it went up instead (I'm still temping for my own sanity since with PCOS if I don't temp I have no clue when my cycles will end). Why does everything go crazy at once?


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## deafgal01

Snd- LET IT ALL OUT! :hugs: There is nothing I can say to make you feel better but I agree with all of what you said- it's not fair. No way in hell is any of this fair- none of us deserves to have obstacles in our journey to having a baby (what should be a natural and free process). :nope: :hugs: I may not understand 100% right now what you're going thru but we'll hold your hands (and I know some of us do actually know where you're coming from because we've been there). :flower: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: I'll give you as many hugs as you need right now. It may look very dark right now but eventually you'll have a few good days here and there. I hope that you still manage to get your forever bfp/baby eventually.

I like the idea of going into ivf thinking that it's 50/50. It either will work or it won't. :thumbup: I'll have to remember that.

:hi: everyone else!


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## deafgal01

Rae- that's awful about the insurance not covering anything. :grr: Makes me mad at the stupid insurance for being greedy companies and not letting us have our dreams to have a baby come true. :hugs: How much extra would it cost you both?


----------



## wibble wobble

WANBMUM said:


> Just got my results and I haven't got a clue what they mean, I only spoke to the receptionist:
> Eastro 358
> Progesterone 14.4
> LH 6.6
> Fsh 5.3
> 
> If anyone can help I'd be grateful. Oh ya, it was day 19 as it fell on a weekend.
> 
> Hey gals can any of you help me out?

I was told for day 21 progesterone needs to be over 30 nmol to suggest ovulation has occurred but as your test was early in will be a little inaccurate,they can also give you clomid to help with ovulation if they think you have a problem


----------



## wibble wobble

tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello ladies :hi:
> 
> How are you all doing today? Man, this thread is moving, lots going on, which is great! :thumbup:
> 
> Deb, how are you doing? When do you need to go for blood work/tests etc? It's just so... awesome! :happydance:
> 
> Sun, glad the HSG went well :hugs:
> 
> SND, hope your HSG was okay.. With all these tests we have to suffer, you begin to understand how the turkey feels on Christmas morning! :haha:
> 
> WanB, I wish I could help, hun. Hopefully your Dr will go over them with you. I didn't even get the levels from our consultant, he just said "it's fine, just lose weight". Hmm, I think the 'bedside manner' was MIA that day! :wacko:
> 
> Rae, wow, that is fast! I guess sometimes it's good that things are moving along, stops you from having time to think about everything. The sooner you get moving, the sooner you'll have that baby, darling! And don't forget, we're all here supporting you all the way :hugs:
> 
> SilverBell, gosh, I didn't realise your cycle was that soon! How are you feeling? Keeping everything crossed for you, hun, we 'Azoo Aunties' (love it!) want lots of nieces and nephews to coo over! :hugs:
> 
> MoBaby, hope you're doing okay, darling :hugs:
> 
> DeafGal, fingers crossed the medicine does the trick you and have a nice little surprise on the way :hugs:
> 
> I'm sorry if I've missed anyone, I'm sure I have (I'm a real 'blonde' at times!), big :hugs: and positive vibes heading your way.
> 
> AFM, well, we got our TESE appointment through, so roll on 23rd April (cue little shriek in my head). We have the follow-up appointment on the 16th May - three days before our wedding anniversary, so it'll either be the best or the worst anniversary imaginable. Gulp.
> 
> We still don't know what we're going to do about using a donor. We've discussed it a little, but DH's response is always "let's decide when we know for sure" (he's a scientist, it's always about the results *bangs head off brick wall*). I know he thinks this is all HIM, but he forgets that I'm 37 in June and my eggs are not exactly in cracking (excuse the pun) condition and time is against me/us.
> 
> The only thing we have agreed upon is if it's bad news, we're booking a lovely, exotic holiday. I can't remember who said it, but you need things to look forward to when you're dealing with all this, well, cr*p.
> 
> I hope you all have a marvellous weekend. The sun is popping through here in London, so I'm hoping it's here to stay!
> 
> Much love,
> 
> C xx

I think it was me that said you need things to look forward to, I've got my holiday in october as I didn't think I'd get treatment this year, turns out that I'm in with a chance depending on my screening results... I can ring up the donor co ordinator once my results are in to find out how long the donor wait is.

my hubby was the same we'll talk about it when it happens, but when we did get the zero result it was me that took it worse than him :wacko: He'd been thinking about but not talking about it whereas I was being over optimistic and trying to make him be optimistic and hadn't really considered donor properly :wacko:


----------



## wibble wobble

snd80 said:


> :cry: Well girls, yesterday was one of those days that I wish never happened..... one of my tubes is completely blocked. I cried the whole way home. Even though they said I could still get pregnant from the other one, it is just so hurtful that we already have all these odds stacked against us than to add this to it. So, I am going from a 10% chance per try now to about a 2% per try! I feel like just curling up in a ball and giving up!!! Why in the hell does this have to be soooooo damn complicated for us?! Why can't we all just get pg the first time we get nutted in like everyone else?! I am seriously thinking of forgetting the whole effing thing! I don't think I can take much more heartbreak! If it is like this now, then when the time comes and it fails, IDK how I will cope?! I am just really over this.... He tried to open it and I about came off that table! I hurt so bad and I have bled like a stuck pig! Sorry for the rant, but it was a bad night and morning so far...

so sorry to hear you got such a bad result on your hsg. Your totally right about us azoo ladies getting one knock back after another. Your not going to give up on your dream of being a mommy though, you were strong enough to get through the azoo,you can get through this. Is it possible for you to have ivf instead? this has a higher success rate... I've been forced into ivf by my clinic as they said my amh is low at 17.4 and being nhs I can't really argue with them as they're doing it for free.... I'm miffed I can't have iui first still now after over a month of being told!


----------



## raelynn

deafgal01 said:


> Rae- that's awful about the insurance not covering anything. :grr: Makes me mad at the stupid insurance for being greedy companies and not letting us have our dreams to have a baby come true. :hugs: How much extra would it cost you both?

It depends on what we decide to go with. It looks like it is going to come down to what we can afford which is really not the best way to make these decisions but what else can we do? We're getting the run down on exact costs next week when the financial adviser calls but the estimates we have so far (without insurance) are:

TESE: $5,000
mTESE: $10,000
IVF: $10,000 (not including meds)
Donor: $250-600

Plus storage costs, meds, doctors visits, tests, etc. Insurance was originally going to cover 50%


----------



## deafgal01

Rae--:hugs: That's a lot of money to throw into it. :flower: I hope you figure out something that will work for you. Do they give money back if the ivf is not successful? I hope that somehow you find the money to proceed with this. It's definitely a tough decision to decide now.


----------



## raelynn

Right now we have to wait. The fertility has a financial adviser who is supposed to call us Monday or Tuesday so we won't know until then if they can offer us any financial assistance or anything.


----------



## deafgal01

Rae- that sucks. Just when we thought you'd be getting the ball rolling on this, it stops again with a new challenge/obstacle. Arugh. Why can't it be free for us to have our babies too and we just pay the bill for having a baby at end of 9 months?


----------



## raelynn

I completely agree. Isn't our suffering payment enough?


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: rae hope it works out for you. :hugs:


----------



## silverbell

wibble wobble said:


> this has a higher success rate... I've been forced into ivf by my clinic as they said my amh is low at 17.4 and being nhs I can't really argue with them as they're doing it for free.... I'm miffed I can't have iui first still now after over a month of being told!

What the heck?! My AMH was given to me this Monday at a very low (for my age) 5.76 pmol/L and they're still happy with a low-medicated IUI ... I'm very confused? Unless it's different units they're measuring with?? A form that came with my results stated 7.0 to 19.9 pmol/L was normal.

These clinics are all so different - I just don't understand it all!



raelynn said:


> As for me - I was starting to get excited about things starting to move along but then we got a call today from the fertility center letting us know that our insurance will not cover anything if we go along with a donor backup.

I can't believe this, rae. Absolutely shocking. Why on earth shouldn't they cover you if you use donor backup? It's just heartbreaking :nope: Thinking of you and hoping things work out :hugs:


----------



## SunUp

I don't understand why donor sperm isn't covered.
Insurance covers teens who get pregnant... yet when it comes to those who are responsible and ready to parent, they won't help.


----------



## wibble wobble

silverbell said:


> wibble wobble said:
> 
> 
> this has a higher success rate... I've been forced into ivf by my clinic as they said my amh is low at 17.4 and being nhs I can't really argue with them as they're doing it for free.... I'm miffed I can't have iui first still now after over a month of being told!
> 
> What the heck?! My AMH was given to me this Monday at a very low (for my age) 5.76 pmol/L and they're still happy with a low-medicated IUI ... I'm very confused? Unless it's different units they're measuring with?? A form that came with my results stated 7.0 to 19.9 pmol/L was normal.
> 
> These clinics are all so different - I just don't understand it all!Click to expand...

I got told that under 15 is considered low 15 to 28 is normal (so I'm at the low end of normal)28 to 48 is excellent https://www.drmalpani.com/amh.htm that page goes into some detail about AMH


----------



## raelynn

SunUp said:


> I don't understand why donor sperm isn't covered.
> Insurance covers teens who get pregnant... yet when it comes to those who are responsible and ready to parent, they won't help.

Exactly! Had a talk with my sister tonight and told her all our current options and pricing of everything and she said she wished everyone had to deal with these costs to have a baby...then there wouldn't be as many unwanted and accidental pregnancies and you could be sure those who had a baby really wanted it.


----------



## Pink Lolly

wibble wobble said:


> silverbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wibble wobble said:
> 
> 
> this has a higher success rate... I've been forced into ivf by my clinic as they said my amh is low at 17.4 and being nhs I can't really argue with them as they're doing it for free.... I'm miffed I can't have iui first still now after over a month of being told!
> 
> What the heck?! My AMH was given to me this Monday at a very low (for my age) 5.76 pmol/L and they're still happy with a low-medicated IUI ... I'm very confused? Unless it's different units they're measuring with?? A form that came with my results stated 7.0 to 19.9 pmol/L was normal.
> 
> These clinics are all so different - I just don't understand it all!Click to expand...
> 
> I got told that under 15 is considered low 15 to 28 is normal (so I'm at the low end of normal)28 to 48 is excellent https://www.drmalpani.com/amh.htm that page goes into some detail about AMHClick to expand...


My AMH is 21 and I was told that anything from 9 (I think) to 25 was normal, so they classed me as the high end of normal. I can only think different clinics have different opinions :saywhat:


----------



## Pink Lolly

SND - so sorry you received bad news at the HSG, but at least one tube is OK and like Deb said you can have scans to check which sides the follies are on, and although its a pain it will mean you can check before inesmination. Take some time to take it all in and as the others have said you will get through it - us Azoo ladies always do :hugs:

Rae - so sorry about the insurance - that sucks big time :hugs:


----------



## Pink Lolly

wibble wobble said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Just got my results and I haven't got a clue what they mean, I only spoke to the receptionist:
> Eastro 358
> Progesterone 14.4
> LH 6.6
> Fsh 5.3
> 
> If anyone can help I'd be grateful. Oh ya, it was day 19 as it fell on a weekend.
> 
> Hey gals can any of you help me out?
> 
> I was told for day 21 progesterone needs to be over 30 nmol to suggest ovulation has occurred but as your test was early in will be a little inaccurate,they can also give you clomid to help with ovulation if they think you have a problemClick to expand...

I was told the same - over 30 on day 21 (or equivalent) confirms ovulation. Its very hard to time it right though. I used the cbfm bit will still a day out and mine came back 29, which they were happy with x


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## Sar187

Rae-Insurance sucks! we had an awful time with ours. However something to check in to would be whether the insurance company is refusing to cover just the IVF cycle or both the IVF cycle and the TESE/mTESE. for instance our insurance company has a $10,000 lifetime maximum for Infertility Treatments, which both us and the fertility clinic were of the understanding was a per policy maximum. Near the end of our first cycle we actually found out this was a per person maximum. This meant that DH's TESE surgery was covered under a separate $10,000 maximum from the rest of our IVF cycle. Also if you haven't already it doesn't hurt to get a copy of the *Full* explanation of benefits, this will describe in detail what is covered and what is excluded. The insurance company or HR department at the employer the insurance is through should be able to provide this. Determine whether the fertility drugs will be covered under your medical insurance or a separate prescription insurance. Ours was separate so we had a whole other $10,000 max from our prescription insurance for fertility drugs, This helped out a whole lot. Find out whether the clinic is including monitoring in your IVF quote, a lot of time insurance companies cover this differently from the actual egg retrieval and embryo transfer procedures and don't count it as actual infertility treatment, our monitoring was covered as regular medical and not as Infertility. I would question whether your insurance company covers donor sperm at all or if they simply are refusing to cover a cycle that is trying to both retrieve and use a donor backup. If the 2nd is the case you may be able to appeal their decision not to cover you due to the azoospermia diagnosis.

Another great resource is fertilitylifelines.com, there is a lot of good information on the website as well as a phone #1-866-LETS-TRY (1-866-538-7879) that you can call and they will help verify your insurance benefits. Good luck!


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## raelynn

Thanks Sar! Luckily, our fertility center has an excellent financial counselor and she has been doing all the leg work for us with the insurance company. Unfortunately, we have to wait to hear specifics from her until Monday or Tuesday. I did get a copy of our policy and donor sperm is not covered at all and it also states that IVF is only covered with the use of hubby's sperm. We were already told the meds are covered under our prescription drug program instead of through infertility coverage so that will be separate. 

After much discussion, hubby and I came up with a plan that I think we can both be comfortable with (it may all change if the financial counselor gives us different info) but for now, we are planning to have TESE done first and freeze anything they find (our urologist told us they could do this when we went to see him). Micro TESE is not covered at all by insurance (urologist told us that outright) so hubby just wants to go with TESE unless we have a large sum of money dropped in our laps. This way, TESE will be covered by insurance and we won't have to go into an IVF cycle with no backup and a chance of having no sperm at the end. If they find sperm during the TESE, great, then we freeze it and do IVF with what we freeze. If no sperm is found, we're assuming we can drop down to IUI with donor since I just have PCOS and IVF was only because of hubby. IUI would be a much more affordable option for us since it would be completely out-of-pocket once we switch to a donor.


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## Deb111

Sounds like a good plan Raelynn xx


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## deafgal01

Rae- that sounds like a very good ideal plan for you and your husband. I wish you best of luck. :thumbup: Good luck :dust: Hope they find sperms to use in ivf.


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## cosita

Hi girls, 

I have a question about hsg. I just called this morning to get appt (af finished yesterday) today is cd6. they gave me appt for next tuesday which will be cd14. Is this too late? I o around cd 15-16 and my cycle is about 27 days. Im not sure if i read somewhere the test is better if its early cos the lining is thin. Should I reschedule? The lady on the phone works in xray, so shes not a fertility expert, she just asked me had my period finished and when. 
Thanks girls


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## silverbell

Cosita - I imagine everywhere's different but I was told it needed to be between days 7 and 14 ideally.

They didn't look at the lining when I had my scan - it was purely to check the organs - the uterus shape and size, the tubes and whether the dye flowed freely out of both tubes at the ends.

I hope this helps :hugs:


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## MoBaby

cosita: i do the hsgs at our radiology practice and we say ideally cd 7-10 but up to cd14 is ok....but no unprotected sex b/c they will cancel if so. the lining desnt matterr. you cant measure the lining on hsg. it only checks the uterus and tubes for any uterine abnormalities/blocked tubes/tube issues.


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## SunUp

Rae- that sounds like a good plan

SND, how are things?

Cosita, good luck with the HSG


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## Luvoboe

I hope everyone doesn't mind me just jumping in the middle of things. 
I just wanted snd to know that I totally know how she feels. I don't ovulate regularly at all and I need to lose about 50 pounds in order to have a healthy pregnancy. Even if my husband gets better on the new medicine, we will still have to wait for me to lose weight. I'm 10 pounds down so I guess that just leaves 40 but that's still a lot! I also feel the percentage that you got was very low. I hope that you feel better soon. There's still a possibility. 
Rae that does sound like a good plan. I too wish that this wasn't such a big money business. It should always be covered by insurance. It's a health problem isn't that what health insurance is for!!? I'm worried also about what we're going to do if we have to do ivf. We only have a $10,000 lifetime limit and we all know how far that goes. 
For me, our second urologist appointment is coming up next week! He will go on Monday to give a semen sample and get bloods drawn. Then the next week on Thursday is when we get the results. Sigh... Let's see how that goes... I can tell you that I probably won't be sleeping well for the next two weeks.


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## snd80

Hey girls... sorry I haven't been on since Fri, but I have been crazy busy at work on top of trying to get all this shit sorted out.... here's what the deal is so far:

I called my dr. Fri and told them to get on the ball of what could be done next concerning my "dead" side.... she called me back that afternoon and said they were faxing the results to Jackson and letting the specialist look at them and let him decide what to do... great. (rolls eyes) So, she calls back this morning and says that they can monitor them by u/s month to month and keep an eye on the "good" one. Have to contact them the day of CD1 so they can set scan up on CD14 of each month, at a whopping $250 a pop I might add! Whatever! Like I told her, plan A isn't an option anymore, this is my plan B, and plan C (IVF) isn't financially feasable, so this is all I've got! So it is hurdle after hurdle.... :brat: Freaking redicilous! I mean as if it hasn't been a crappy road to this point to now add this?! *sigh*

Now that my "rant" is over, how is everyone else?! And I just wanna add that I am so glad to have you all as concerned friends! IDK what I would do w/out this support group!!! :hugs:


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## snd80

Oh, on a "better" note, I have lost 2 lbs since 2/14! Guess that is a plus! But I have also been going to the gym twice a day about 4-5 times a week too...


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## Deb111

Well done on the weight loss hun! 

I know the money each month is a huge pain, but at least it will stop a wasted cycle xx


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## Pink Lolly

Glad you've got a plan snd :thumbup:

Great news on the weight loss! Xx


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## deafgal01

snd- well done on the weight loss... That sounds like a feasible plan. I know it sucks to pay that much each month but like Deb said, it will stop each cycle from being a wasted one with them monitoring you.

I'm doing fine. Nothing to report.


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## CanadianMaple

I have a massive headache and am going to be back for personals later in the week. Quick question...
They are monitoring my cycle, CD3 was the whole hormonal panel. CD8 was LH/FSH, CD21 is this Thursday. I think I am just ovulating now, I'm getting my usual EWCM. I put a call into the clinic, but do you think they will still get me to do the the progesterone test? It's going to be low if I didn't ovulate. I would be interested in what my LH/FSH were right now too.


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## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Oh, on a "better" note, I have lost 2 lbs since 2/14! Guess that is a plus! But I have also been going to the gym twice a day about 4-5 times a week too...

Wow! Thats fantastic! You're an inspiration, darling. Life is complete and utter bo**ocks. Tomorrow is the third anniversary of my mum's passing and this time I'll be mourning the loss of my dad, too AND with all this cr*p we've been dealt, yeah, it's amazing how any of us get through the day!

BUT I love your energy and spririt, you have your plan and you're going to get your baby, hun. Just remember that!

BIG :hugs:

C xx


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## silverbell

snd that's great news about the weight loss - well done you :thumbup:

I'm sorry about the cost of the scans, but at least you'll know you ovulated from the correct side each month and it'll all be worth it when you get your little one.

Of course, it may be that you ovulate from the normal side the very first month, which would be amazing and I really hope this happens for you. x


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## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> I have a massive headache and am going to be back for personals later in the week. Quick question...
> They are monitoring my cycle, CD3 was the whole hormonal panel. CD8 was LH/FSH, CD21 is this Thursday. I think I am just ovulating now, I'm getting my usual EWCM. I put a call into the clinic, but do you think they will still get me to do the the progesterone test? It's going to be low if I didn't ovulate. I would be interested in what my LH/FSH were right now too.

I'm not sure about this - do you mean you could be ovulating late? I would imagine they'll still do CD21 but they may check again next cycle after they see how long your cycle is and/or what the results are.

How long are your cycles normally? They like the test done 7 days before AF arrives.

Obviously if you're only just ovulating now then you'll be due in 10 to 14 days' time.

To start with I think they just assume you'll ovulate on the normal day 14 because it's the text-book average ovulation day.

I have had EWCM after ovulation before in the past, but only in about 2 cycles in the past couple 2.5 years, so it can happen.


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## CanadianMaple

I just called my clinic. They want me to do the CD21 test tomorrow and then if the progesterone isn't up, they will do a CD28 test on me. I think I am ovulating this week. My cycles are usually 33 days but I had an almost 50 day cycle in the fall. I've stopped charting since the azoo diagnosis.

I got DH's numbers, I think they are really bad news. Of course, they are making us wait for the genetic tests to wait, it may be May/June before we get answers. Here they are:
FSH: 21.4
LH: 14
Testosterone: 4.2 

Anyone want to guess at what they mean? I've been trying to ignore the IF stuff, my doctor just told me this week that he thinks I have developed an ulcer. He's giving me a month on meds and I will have to do a GI scope if I don't get better. Work's been stressful too. It seems to be one thing after another and I just want answers so we can move on. Right now, DH sounds like it's game over for us if he doesn't have sperm.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh Canadian... :nope: Just one curveball after another thrown at ya, eh? I'm hoping that mind set is just temporary... That your man will change his mind about what can be done about things if he has zero sperm. :hugs: :flower: I hope you don't have ulcer. :shock:


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## raelynn

CanadianMaple - Sounds like they're doing good to work around your cycle to get accurate testing. Sorry I don't know the numbers for the hormone levels to offer any advice there, our urologist interpreted our numbers for us.

As for me - I had my antral follicle count done today, 15 on one side 27 on the other so 42 total. Not that I am surprised as I have PCOS. Guessing I'll be on a pretty low dose of stim meds so I don't get over stimulated. Uterine lining was 3.25 (I believe it is supposed to be between 3 and 4) so things are looking good.


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I got DH's numbers, I think they are really bad news. Of course, they are making us wait for the genetic tests to wait, it may be May/June before we get answers. Here they are:
> 
> FSH: 21.4
> LH: 14
> Testosterone: 4.2
> 
> Anyone want to guess at what they mean?

The FSH indicates some testicular failure (but that does not mean that none of the areas of the testes are working - we were told some areas would be on strike, some would be starting and then stopping before the sperm were fully deveoped and some would be fine) and the fact that it higher than normal means that the body has recognised there's a problem and has raised the FSH to try to drive sperm production. At 21.4 it's not excessively high and we were told it can easily be pushed into the high 30's with medication which will hopefully increase any production that there is

I'm not too sure about the LH but think it goes hand in hand with the FSH

His testosterone is pretty low at 4.2 - Terry's was 5.8 I think at it's lowest and it will most likely mean he will need lifelong testosterone replacement therapy once the fertiliy side of thing has been dealt with else there can be long term health issues such as brittle bones ets

But please don't give up hope. As I said, Terry's testosterone was low and his FSH was raised. I would think he could be put on something like tamoxifen or arimadex which would boost his testosterone and his FSH and hopefully drive the sperm production

It is worth a 10 minute free phone consultation with Dr Turek - he gave is some very positive information about our results and even though we didn't end up using him, it was useful info to take with us (just google him and there's something on the right hand side of his website to arrange a chat)

keep your chin up hun - there is hope xx


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## CanadianMaple

Thank you, that really helps a lot. Having to wait months is torture. DH will be 44 in September and we just don't have the time, he's not comfortable with waiting another year. I'm guessing we could do something to equalize the hormones, but doesn't it take months? He just told me that we should call the contractor and do our basement reno we had put on hold while saving for IVF. He doesn't sound like he will even consider donor sperm. I am terrified this could mean the end of our journey.


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## Deb111

Don't give up hope hun :hugs:

Have you had any counselling together?

I really hope you get your dream, but if you're like me, you need a back-up plan. Would you both consider a donor embryo? I know the child wouldn't be yours biologically, but to me it's easier than adoption because you get to experience the whole pregnancy things and scans and giving birth and how can a child not feel like your won when the 3 of you have been through that journey together? It's what we were considering as our back-up option xx


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## CanadianMaple

We haven't done any counseling. The fertility counselor is in the city, so it's not really doable right now. We're still newlyweds, just married 8 months, and the thought that we may need counseling is a tough pill to swallow. What a tough first year married, we should still be giddy.

I don't know much about embryo adoption. I'm not sure I am in a place to do it either. I have a son that's 4 next month and have always wanted to give him a sibling he could look a bit like and relate to. It's hard for me to let go of having my own genetic child too, especially since everything seems good on my end.

It's a rough night. DH is total denial about his T being low. He doesn't have a lot of symptoms and thinks it must be a mistake. He doesn't even want to talk about it. I'm hurting and want him to assure me all will be okay and he's retreated to his online poker for most of the evening.


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## raelynn

So sorry you are going through this with your hubby :hugs: They seem to take this diagnosis very hard. I can say, my hubby was very closed off originally. He didn't want to talk about it, go over our options, or even admit there was a problem. It took me a while to understand how to approach him but once I figured out his way of dealing with things, I could talk to him in a way that wouldn't shut him down and we eventually got to a place where we could talk things over. We are now both in such a better place. My advice is just take it slow and try to find the best way to talk in his 'language'. It won't always be easy and it takes a lot of patience but hopefully you'll both get to a point where you can at least make a decision together. I know it is hard to consider counseling so early but think about investing in your marriage. It is better to build a strong foundation early than to start falling apart now. Sometimes an outside voice really helps. Hope things get better for you soon!! :hugs:


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## Sar187

Rae-Sounds like a great plan! Clinic financial advisers tend to be awesome! Our insurance company was just extra difficult to deal with and gave different answers anytime someone talked to them so it took us, HR and the clinic financial adviser to deal with them and get everything straightened out.

Luv-I don't know if you saw my post to rae earlier, but we also have a 10,000 lifetime max. We did find out though that it is per person on the policy and not per policy so if you DH is on the policy as well anything he has done would be counted under his and the rest under yours. It doesn't help a lot, but a little.

Canadian-Don't give up hope, I know its hard but it may just take some time for your DH to come to terms with things. We all want everything to happen right now, but with infertility it always seems to be waiting. We tend to get a diagnosis and want to attack it head on and deal with it any way we can emotionally and medically. Men don't usually approach things like I think they have to get past dealing with it emotionally themselves first before they can move on to dealing with it in any other way. Also remember that counseling isn't giving up, it is fighting back against all the things that haven't gone as planned. 

AFM-I have been kind of MIA for awhile because I have been really sick since last Wednesday. I am finally starting to feel better after 2 trips to the Dr. and a trip to the ER. Saturday I was told it was just viral, by Monday I was feeling even worse so 2nd trip to the dr. to be told I probably had bronchitis or Whooping cough and that I also had pink eye in both eyes, got an antibiotic and eye drops. Wasn't really feeling any better Tuesday and then started vomiting, it got to the point where I couldn't keep anything down so at 9:30 pm we went to the emergency room where I was told as I expected that I had some minor dehydration. So they gave me 2 litres of fluids through IV and a dose of anti-nausea medication which they also gave me a prescription for. Yesterday I slept most of the day and today I am feeling semi-normal. Hoping that by next week I start feeling like myself again. The ER wanted me to follow up with the OB so we have an appointment with him tomorrow.


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## Deb111

Canadian - don't feel bad if you need counselling - it's not marriage counselling, just someone to talk to to help you both deal with a blow you never expected to be dealt :hugs:

Sar - sorry you've been ill - feel better soon xx


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## CanadianMaple

I'm not ready to drive the 2 hrs to see the counselor, I think we just need more processing time. Since DH is almost 44, we only have a small window for his own comfort zone. I'm going to start preparing myself to move on. Time just isn't on our sides and now we have to face the very real health implications this has highlighted.


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## Deb111

Sending you :hugs: Canadian


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## snd80

Sar-Hope you are feeling better! :hugs:

CM- I'm soo sorry hon! Maybe with time your DH will start to see things in a different light! Seems like he just needs some time to digest things and get outta that "denial" stage. Mine was the same way, and look at him now; more optimistic than I am! Just hug and love on him and let him know that you care and are ready for the next step when he is, whatever that might be..... :hugs: to you both!

Rae- Don't feel bad, I have PCOS too... we just all a big ball o' mess! (Well, some of us anyways!) IDK weither to take my ov. test results serious anymore or not b/c of this PCOS. It said I ov'd yesterday, and it was only CD13, and after the HSG! Very unusual for me!!! Who knows!!! :growlmad:

:hugs: to everyone else!

PS- Weighed again on my lunch break today..... have lost a total of 5 lbs now since 2/14! I'm questioning it though..... :shrug:


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## raelynn

Snd - I know I've never been able to trust an opk because of PCOS. Mine just appear almost positive for pretty much my entire cycle but hopefully you have better luck! Congrats on the weight loss!

Canadian - Sending lots of hugs! Just do your best to be their for your hubby. I'm sure it is frustrating since it seems us women just want to move on and get things done but eventually he should come around to at least discussing your options.


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## SunUp

Hey everyone!
Been crazy busy here with work - I worked 6 of the last 8 nights so I've haven't been on much. Just went and caught up with the threads though.

Sar- hope you are feeling better! Dehy is no fun!
SND - thats great on the weight loss! You rock! :)
Canadian - I know where you are coming from. Waiting is one of the worst parts :/ It is hard to stay positive all the time, but I try to stay strong and positive, as I feel that being pessimistic doesn't really make things better anyway. I hope that you are having a good day today. Just take it one day at a time.:hugs:
Rae- 47?! Thats a lot! :) Hope things are going well!
Deb - Can't say how happy I am for you!

Ok so I probably missed a few, sorry if I did!!

As for Me...
We met with the RE the other day, it went very well. RE thinks they will find sperm on biopsy - which was a great thing to hear. Good news but still trying not to get our hopes up. Biopsy is next week. So in ONE week we will know about the sperm. I can't believe how far we have come since first hearing and wondering what the heck azoo was!!:haha:

RE said that if they do find sperm, we will start meds NEXT cycle. He will put me on BC for a few weeks before injections... Which for me, my next cycle should start around the end of the month. (Estimated March 27th for AF) Its crazy how I used to DREAD her and now we have to look FORWARD to her! hahahah.

He also said, to me "due to your youth I think we will find lots of very good eggs":blush:... hope he is right! I had my last blood test for a while, something about malaria, I think, to check egg reserve or something?

He said if they find sperm, call and do a phone consult so we can set up IVF dates. I cannot believe we were FINALLY talking dates! At first he said "if they find sperm all we have to work out is finances" which, THANK GOODNESS, is taken care of, DH's awesome insurance covers everything. We told him that and he double checked through the computer - looked up and told us we had the best insurance :) so we could start right away!:happydance:

Please keep your fingers crossed for our biopsy! I know we have probably crossed everything for people through this journey but I would so appreciate it!:flower:


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## snd80

Good Luck Sun!!!!!


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## Deb111

SunUp said:


> He also said, to me "due to your youth I think we will find lots of very good eggs":blush:... hope he is right! I had my last blood test for a while, something about malaria, I think, to check egg reserve or something?

That'll be your Anti-Mullerian Hormone test - it gives them an indication of your fertility - don't worry if it's low (mine was VERY low) - it just gives them a reference point to know what doesage of drugs to put you on.

Great news on things moving along quickly for you and keeping everything crossed for next week xx


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## SunUp

AHhhh that is exactly it - I was going to google it, but forgot! Thanks :)


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## raelynn

Good luck Sun!

I just got back from a Women's retreat that the majority of the women in my extended family do every year so it was a nice little break from everything. But, of course, I'm exhausted from all the activities. Friday hubby and I tag-teamed on phone calls and cleared our plan with all the doctors. We're supposed to get a call early this week to schedule hubby's TESE and then go from there. When I called our nurse at the fertility clinic to ask about dropping down to IUI if we end up having to use donor, she said our doctor had already made a note that it was an option for us in our file so we're clear to go down either path depending on the results of the TESE.


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## Deb111

Great news - I hope you get a date soon :thumbup:


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## SunUp

Yay Rae! I am going to send you a private message


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## MJ73

Hi girls, sorry I haven't been on here or the FB page much, I have been following though. My Mum has been very unwell, in intensive care for a few weeks now after complications from hernia surgery. She hasn't eaten for 3 weeks & has been on a few drips & has had a nasal-gastro tube draining her stomach, she also has been in for emergency surgery since the initial surgery because her bowel had twisted. It's been very stressful as we watched my dad die 2 years ago so all the tubes just bring back bad memories. She lives nearly 2 hours away from me & my boss has been away so I've only been able to visit her a couple of times a week. Anyway, just haven't had much time for posting. But as usual you're all in my thoughts & prayers & I'm with you all through the ups & downs. This week DH & I are away on a trip we've had planned for a year, just a few hours drive from home. So I'm calling the hospital twice a day & just trying to relax.
Big :hugs:
Mel xx


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## tigerlily1975

Hey MJ, really sorry to hear about your mum, I hope she's on the mend :hugs: :hugs:

C xx


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## Deb111

Hope you're Mum is better soon MJ xx


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## silverbell

Good luck, Sun!

MJ, so sorry to hear about your Mom. I hope she's feeling better soon :hugs:

Great news, Rae.


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## cosita

Hi girls, 
So I had my hsg this morning, it went really well, wasn't half as bad as I had imagined and my tubes are open and my uterus is a normal shape (my gynae had thought it was bicornute). At the same time my dh went to andrologist again to take 3rd sa results, so his biopsy is on 27th of March. Eeeek!!Its all happening now! Dh is a little low because I think he always thought it wouldn't come to this and that miraculously he was going to get his numbers up but my good news has cheered him up I guess. Over on SunUp's thread I picked up this link, its amazing and well worth a read. 
Anything really is possible!! https://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn...82-miracle-baby-born-from-single-frozen-sperm

By the way, I am right around O and tomorrow Im taking a trip for a week without dh. Nurse said we shouldnt bd but my sister is a radio tech and said that sometimes girls are recommended to bd as tubes are wide open. What do you reckon?? What did you girls do?


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## deafgal01

I'd bd anyways. :shrug: What was the nurse's reason for not allowing you two to bd?


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## cosita

They said to prevent infection. My sister is a radio tech though and where she works they don't tell the patients that. I think we'll go for it!


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## Pink Lolly

I don't remember being told that either cos.

Glad it went well xx


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## tigerlily1975

:hi: Cosita

Glad it all went well.

The Dr who performed mine said a lot of women get pregnant afterwards as 'your tubes will have been cleared', but obviously there was no point for us (she didn't know our situation). It sounds like there shouldn't be a problem if you want to though. 

:hugs:

C xx


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## CanadianMaple

I just wanted to post and thank you for your support. I'm going to take a bit of break, I'm not coping well and feel like I am not being a very supportive member of this group. My husband and I are barely talking right now and I am allowing this to take over my life. I need to step away from the computer a bit.

The news that he has low T and other hormonal issues that point to testicular failure hit me hard, even though I was expecting it. He's coping by not talking about it and pushing me away. The fact that we have to wait until early summer for answers is going to be even harder on me now that I have an idea what's going on.

It's hard being in here while in limbo. It feels like everyone is getting results and biopsies months quicker than us. I'm excited for those of you getting pregnant but even that is hard for me this week. I really don't think we will get that opportunity.

I will probably be back after a short break. I really hope everyone understands. I feel like I am being a big baby, but I know I'm not coping well and don't want to drag anyone else down until I get a hold of myself.


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## deafgal01

Canadian :hugs: No worries. We all understand and it's healthy to take breaks from here once in a while when you need it. :hugs: I feel the same way sometimes (stuck in limbo not getting any answers yet). :flower: Hope you work things out with your man and he starts talking soon rather than pushing you away.


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## raelynn

Canadian - We all understand. Half of the challenge of this journey is all the waiting involved. Just know we're here for you when you need the support!

As for me, we just scheduled hubby's TESE for March 21. I have to be the transporter for the cryo tube between the fertility center and the urologist. Hopefully they find a few sperm for us to use! But, at least we have our plan b ready if not. We're just ready to know and move forward.


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## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> The news that he has low T and other hormonal issues that point to testicular failure hit me hard, even though I was expecting it. He's coping by not talking about it and pushing me away. The fact that we have to wait until early summer for answers is going to be even harder on me now that I have an idea what's going on.
> 
> It's hard being in here while in limbo. It feels like everyone is getting results and biopsies months quicker than us. I'm excited for those of you getting pregnant but even that is hard for me this week. I really don't think we will get that opportunity.
> 
> I will probably be back after a short break. I really hope everyone understands. I feel like I am being a big baby, but I know I'm not coping well and don't want to drag anyone else down until I get a hold of myself.

It's entirely understandable and most of us have been there with requiring a break from BnB. It's normal and natural. I'm sorry to hear about the troubles between the 2 of you, but I hope once you've both lived with the news for a little longer that you'll find your way back to one another again. I've always said the waiting is absolutely, horribly VILE. It's the hardest period of waiting you'll ever have to do and it stinks that everybody seems to be going at a quicker pace than you are ... but that's honestly not ever really the case. There are a lot of ladies on here and we're all at different stages and sometimes it can seem like things are happening really quickly, but in reality they rarely are. From our initial zero sperm SA results to the date of DH's operation, it was just over 7 months of long, hard waiting and quite honestly the worst period of our lives. It was the waiting and the 'not knowing' that was a living nightmare for us and we thought of little else that entire time, despite our efforts.

I wonder if counselling could help? It's a shame that it has the stigma that people have attached to it. It could help you work out some of the issues - either as a couple or individually and certainly isn't anything to be ashamed about. Getting a diagnosis like this is a majorly significant event in any couple's lives. I have read that the emotions in response to it are comparable with a diagnosis of a terminal illness or the death of a loved one. Most people wouldn't think twice to get counselling for either of those, so do bear that in mind.

In the meantime, I hope your break away goes as well as it can and that you and your DH can find a happier place together. We found a holiday really helped us to put things in perspective and just enjoy being together and being loved up, like we were before all this mess.

Thinking of you and hoping you and your husband are feeling better very soon :hugs:



cosita said:


> Hi girls,
> So I had my hsg this morning, it went really well, wasn't half as bad as I had imagined and my tubes are open and my uterus is a normal shape (my gynae had thought it was bicornute). By the way, I am right around O and tomorrow Im taking a trip for a week without dh. Nurse said we shouldnt bd but my sister is a radio tech and said that sometimes girls are recommended to bd as tubes are wide open. What do you reckon?? What did you girls do?

How funny that I had the exact same happen to me (re the gynae telling me it was possibly bicornate and the HSG proving otherwise). I'm so pleased for you, as I know you were worried.

Amazing news about the biopsy date. 

I would definitely BD - it's always worth a shot until you know the results of a TESE. I was told after my HSG that it was the perfect time to BD because it flushes the tubes out clear and widens them a bit and lots of ladies get pregnant after an HSG. We didn't actually bother as we already expected zero sperm, but it's clearly not a problem with my hospital either. Go for it - it can't hurt.


Raelynn - great news you have a date! :dance: Having a Plan B really helps you deal with the TESE, I think.


----------



## Deb111

Canadian - Don't be too hard on yourselves. SB is right - this is like a bereavement. We are nearly at 2 years from diagnosis and all the waiting really is horrendous.

I hope you and dh can get to a point where you are able to discuss things more and get back to being 'you'. It really is easy to lose who you are individually and as a couple in all of this. I remember putting a quote in my video journal that says something along the lines of how it becomes so consuming that you forget to live, forget to laugh - maybe you need to get this back and just be a newly married couple again.

I'm sure we all completely understand the need for a break, especially as you have a wait ahead of you right now - I know I've needed breaks before. It really can be all-consuming. Just please know that we are all here for you whenever you need us or if you need a shoulder to cry on and a good old rant.

Will be thinking of you both hun
Take care of yourselves xx :hugs::kiss:


----------



## Luvoboe

Canadian I hope you are able to see the light at the end of the tunnel soon. Hearing such devistating sperm results is never easy. I remember the time my husband got his first zero sperm results like it was yesterday. It happened four years ago but it is still vivid. We had only been married six months. I was devistated and so was he. He would get angry every time I'd mention it. So, rather than put our marriage in jeopardy, I swept it under the rug. I'd bring it up every once in a while to test the waters and quickly bury it if things were still bad. It took my husband four years to come to terms with it enough to even kind of talk about it and even then it took me breaking down into tears and telling him I just needed someone to talk to. No one else that I knew was going through this and I just needed to talk. He finally opened up and is now actively trying to get treated. I'm not saying you need to wait four years. There's a little more to the story of my waiting, but I agree with everyone else. Try to brush it under the rug and let things settle a little. He may be more open to discussing once he's had time to sort through his feelings. 
Sorry for the long story. I just wanted to share our story to let you know that you are not alone.


----------



## wibble wobble

Canadian Maple Hope a break from here does you good xx


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## snd80

Thinking of you CM.... take all the time you need and when you are ready to come back, we will all be here for you! :hugs:


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## Pink Lolly

Canadian - sorry you are feeling down. I think we have all been there, the waiting sucks :nope:

Its more than a year since we were diagnosed and it seems like we've waited a lifetime looking back, altough actually the time does go quickly. Its a rollercoaster though and I have had many dark times like you. Sending you massive :hugs:

I'm back on the iui train again now! Start stimming tonight - fingers crossed this time. Hope everyone else is ok :wave:


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## KB38

I've just looked back and can't believe how long it has been since I've logged on here. I think it is partially because I have been in a bit of denial and partially (mostly) because I forgot my password and had major issues getting a new one :dohh:. 

Anyway, DH and I had a full day of appointments yesterday. It was such an emotional day and I am absolutely exhausted today. It seemed to be all bad news - firstly, although DH has to do another SA "for our peace of mind", we've been told that there is no prospect of having his biological child. We've known this for a while now so not a big shock but still not nice to hear and to me the SA seems really condescending and a waste of time and money...

Then we saw my new FS. He is so much nicer than the one I saw last year and I do feel comfortable with him. DH was also very comfortable and he was able to give us far more information about DH than what DH's urologist was. He offered to refer DH to another urologist if we'd like but said that it was highly unlikely that anything would change which we accept. But he did mention that my AMH levels are a little low for my age (7.4) which wasn't explained to me last year and so has irrationally become a huge source of stress for me.

Then because of a change in the law here donors now not only have to be identifiable to any future child but also have to have undergone a counselling session with an accredited psychologist which means that there is an absolute shortage of DS and that for that reason, even though I am otherwise fine, clinics will not do IUI so I have to go straight to IVF. For the first time on this journey, I feel so resentful and angry at DH, my work, the world in general....

Now (and I know this is completely illogical) I just want to walk away from it all. I don't want to use a donor anymore and the thought of having a baby is absolutely terrifying me. 

When we were looking through profiles yesterday I was being really, really picky. Our clinic is importing through European Sperm USA and I want to log onto their site to get more information about our potential donors but for some reason the site won't accept my postcode so I can't get in and can't make a decision about which donor to use. 

Then we had to have our mandatory counselling session and because we haven't told anyone yet, we are being made to go away and think about it and to come back again. I feel like we are being made to rethink decisions that we have thought long and hard about by someone who knows nothing of our family dynamics and situation. As DH said, we will just lie when we go back if we have to. 

Like I've said before, we have no issues with telling our child or our families but we wanted to be sure of the diagnosis and have made a definite decision about what we were doing before we went there. I am not in a good headspace and I don't want to hear what others think about our decisions. As you all know, they are not easy decisions to made and I still feel a little bit uncomfortable.

A few months ago I remember reading about a book you'd all suggested. Can anyone give me the title again? I need to get some perspective as I am not in a good headspace.


----------



## Pink Lolly

Aw kb - sending you massive hugs :hugs:

If it's the book I'm thinking if it's called Helping the Stork - The choices and challenges of donor insemination.

Sorry you are also upset about your amh - I know there are others on this thread who have been in the same situation xx


----------



## Deb111

So sorry KB - this journey is tough.

It sounds like your AMH is measured in the same scale as mine was and mine was 1.4 :shrug: I was told it was surprisingly low for someone my age. Try not to get too wrapped up in it - it is mainly used so they know what doesage of meds to give you. It's more important how many follicles you have. I had 5 with one tiny one but there must have been some hiding because they got 8 mature eggs. I remember someone on here saying to me that sometimes if you have less follicles for the meds to work on, they are better quality

Thinking of you at this difficult time xx


----------



## raelynn

So, we're scheduled for hubby's TESE on the 21st. For those of you who have already gone through this, how quickly did you get results back? We're excited but nervous!


----------



## Deb111

Great news that things are moving for you.

We had our results pretty immediately. Hubby was told whilst they were still operating that they'd found one healthy motile sperm and we knew they'd found 2 more within an hour or so. They said they'd still be looking for another couple of hours but didn't find any more


----------



## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> So, we're scheduled for hubby's TESE on the 21st. For those of you who have already gone through this, how quickly did you get results back? We're excited but nervous!

We were told 5 days later at the post op


----------



## Kendall29

Hey ladies! I'm new here although we've been dealing with our azoo diagnosis for 7 months. I've just spent several hours reading through your stories and is it ever amazing how our experiences are so different yet so similar. 

For the past 3 months DH has been on hcg injections. Besides being treated for a low thyroid and previously being on testosterone supplements (would have been great to know the side affects of that prior to taking it- grrrr) all of his hormone levels came back normal- except for that ever important sperm. Tomorrow DH will take a SA to see if the injections worked. I am soooo terribly nervous, not to mention dreading the 48-72 hours they said it would take to get the results. Has anyone had experiences with hcg injections to treat azoo? I'm in a support group through my church but am the only one whose DH has azoo. Our RE says he's "cautiously optimistic" but really, the proof is in the pudding (ew- no pun intended) so we will have to see. 

Glad to find this group- although I can't say it's fun to be a member of the exclusive azoo club that no one wants an invitation to:(.


----------



## deafgal01

Good luck Kendall. Never heard of hcg injection treatment for treating that but hope that you'll get some good news with that. Welcome to the group- sorry that you've been dealing with it but at least you'll find great support here too. :hugs:


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## deafgal01

rae- good luck at that upcoming appt for your husband.


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## silverbell

KB38 said:


> Then we saw my new FS. He is so much nicer than the one I saw last year and I do feel comfortable with him. DH was also very comfortable and he was able to give us far more information about DH than what DH's urologist was. He offered to refer DH to another urologist if we'd like but said that it was highly unlikely that anything would change which we accept. But he did mention that my AMH levels are a little low for my age (7.4) which wasn't explained to me last year and so has irrationally become a huge source of stress for me.
> 
> Then because of a change in the law here donors now not only have to be identifiable to any future child but also have to have undergone a counselling session with an accredited psychologist which means that there is an absolute shortage of DS and that for that reason, even though I am otherwise fine, clinics will not do IUI so I have to go straight to IVF. For the first time on this journey, I feel so resentful and angry at DH, my work, the world in general....
> 
> 
> Then we had to have our mandatory counselling session and because we haven't told anyone yet, we are being made to go away and think about it and to come back again. I feel like we are being made to rethink decisions that we have thought long and hard about by someone who knows nothing of our family dynamics and situation. As DH said, we will just lie when we go back if we have to.
> 
> Like I've said before, we have no issues with telling our child or our families but we wanted to be sure of the diagnosis and have made a definite decision about what we were doing before we went there. I am not in a good headspace and I don't want to hear what others think about our decisions. As you all know, they are not easy decisions to made and I still feel a little bit uncomfortable.
> 
> A few months ago I remember reading about a book you'd all suggested. Can anyone give me the title again? I need to get some perspective as I am not in a good headspace.

Yes, the book I recommended is Helping the Stork, as PL mentioned :thumbup: I found it very detailed and useful and it was great to read of other couples' experiences and those of the children themselves.

I'm sorry about how things are for you at the moment, KB.

My AMH was low for my age too (4.76 I think it was) and it freaked me out, but the clinic have said they have absolutely no worries because they saw 5 or 6 follicles in my luteal phase at my dildo-cam scan, so they're not concerned at all and it's just to guide them with regards to dosage of drugs. In fact, they said they'd be more worried if it was higher, as there would be a chance of hyper-stimulation, whereas it's very unlikely for me. 7.4 was classed as normal on the paperwork I was given :thumbup:

Our clinic actually recruits their own donors, so we can go to IUI. It's such a shame when ladies are forced to undergo IVF without trying IUI first for donor. 

That's pretty shocking about the counselling. :growlmad: I don't see why they've done that? Is there any way you can call and say you've had your counselling and that's that and you don't want any more? It seems entirely unreasonable to make you do more just because you hadn't shared with family???

I agree with you entirely about not wanting to think about what others thing of your decisions. I was the same and when we told family we said we weren't looking for negativity or opinions - this was what we'd chosen to do and we needed them to be prepared and to accept it (if not straight away, then at least with time). It seemed to work for us, but I had warned DH that if anybody dared to say anything derogatory about our decision then I would snap! It's nobody's decision but your own as a couple. 

Hope you're feeling in a better place soon, KB :hugs:



raelynn said:


> So, we're scheduled for hubby's TESE on the 21st. For those of you who have already gone through this, how quickly did you get results back? We're excited but nervous!

Unfortunately ours took 13 days. It was a lifetime, honestly, and ours was the same Consultant who did Deb's ... so I have no idea why there are different timescales. He did say DH's was being sent off for laboratory testing where they check to see exactly what stage any sperm are at in the creation stage and that's what took a long time. I really hope you hear shortly. I would advise to try and get an idea from the Consultant prior to the op, as it was a huge shock and upsetting to us on the day to find out we'd be waiting 2 weeks (we had previously been told the following day).



Kendall29 said:


> Hey ladies! I'm new here although we've been dealing with our azoo diagnosis for 7 months. I've just spent several hours reading through your stories and is it ever amazing how our experiences are so different yet so similar.
> 
> 
> Glad to find this group- although I can't say it's fun to be a member of the exclusive azoo club that no one wants an invitation to:(.

Hi Kendall and welcome. Yeah we all know what you mean!

I've not heard of this for azoo before but I really do hope that it works. Keeping everything crossed for the 2 of you. :hugs:


----------



## nightdaze

Hi ladies,

I have just spent the past 2 hours reading through many of the post in this thread and I have been crying my eyes out for all of you and also for myself, unfortunatly. 

DH and I have been married for 7 years and finally decided to start TTC this past October. After 5 cycles I just knew something was wrong. Our family docotor sent DH for a SA and we got the results on Thursday - no sperm in his sample.

I know you have all been through this horrible feeling. It really is the worst. I am barely functioning at the moment and feel extremely hopeless. DH is devestated as well. I know there is still hope but the road ahead of us feels so long. I am a planner and right now we can't plan anything - he has to do another SA as well as bloodwork and maybe that will tell us more but right now I am really struggling to cope.

You all seem so very nice and I hope you don't mind if I join in on this thread. 

xo


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh Nightdaze. Not good that you just found out- but glad you managed to find us. This group is a godsend.


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## silverbell

Nightdaze, welcome to the thread and I'm so very, very sorry to hear of your news :hugs:

Like you say, we've all been there and it's absolutely devastating and I remember the feelings you're experiencing right now with deep sadness and pain.

You're right though - it isn't the end of the road just yet. Do you live in the UK? If so, you can spend lots of time chasing the NHS to do things and can speed things up quite a bit. It took us 7 months from finding out about DH's zero sperm count to having the biopsy done on the NHS, with loads of things going on in the meantime. Be prepared for uneducated medical professionals and having to do the research yourself and nagging for tests etc.

At the beginning nothing much happens at all but in a way I think this is a good thing because you really need the first few weeks to process the information and just deal with it. The emotions involved have been medically described as being the same as grieving the loss of a loved one. Please take your time to deal with these emotions and don't forget to talk to one another and give each other huge amounts of hugs and love. You both need it now more than you likely ever have.

Thinking of you x


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## Luvoboe

Kendall,
My husband and I are about the same as you. My husband was on testosterone and has now been taking hcg for about three months. He had a sperm sample taken a couple of days ago but we haven't gotten the results yet. I'm guessing, just from the way he's able to perform, (he'd kill me if he saw me writing about this!) at least his testosterone is good. I can only hope that the results will be good. It's been a few days so I think I will call to see if there are any results back yet. 
Good luck on your results! It's good to see someone else going through the same treatment! We can talk and compare notes. Does your husband get headaches and seem extra grumpy on hcg?


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## Deb111

Welcome Kandall and Nightdaze :flower: So sorry you're both going through this. SB has put it perfectly as usual :thumbup: When you get this kind of news, it is a grieving process - you are grieving the chance of ever being able to do this naturally at the very least and that is hard to deal with, but there are many successes in this thread - one way or another we WILL all get there.

I've heard of HCG injections - it was something they considered for my hubby but decided on the arimadex / tamoxifen instead.

AFM, had my early pregnancy scan today - all went brilliantly and everything is just as it should be. Heartbeat was flickering away really strongly so she switched the machine on so we could hear it - INCREDIBLE!!! :cloud9:


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## snd80

Hi and welcome to the newbies! Sorry to see you here, but we have all been there in your shoes in one way or another at some point in time... but know that we are here for all the support you need anytime!!! :hugs:

Deb... YAY! I can only dream of the day I can hear a little heartbeat on the screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You MUST be over the moon!!!! :happydance:

Hope everyone else is doing good! I didn't have time to read through all the personals, but wanted to stop in to give out some love! 

AFM- nothing to report.... still in waiting-limbo hell. Waiting on af to show up so I can start my first round of clomid and CD21 bloods after ov. May needs to HURRY THE HELL UP! :haha: I spend allllll my free time in the gym to make it go by faster, but it doesn't. :nope: That's about it for me! Oh, and guess we will start to official donor search and picking out "the one" next month! Guess that is something to look forward to! :shrug:


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## Kendall29

Luvoboe,
It really does sound like we are on the same path! My husband definitely seems to have more testosterone. He does get irritated pretty quickly (kind of PMS'ing ;). He also has a ton more energy in general- no headaches although that symptom doesn't surprise me as hopefully all of those hormones are changing. I just hate this waiting! All of the other SA's we found out the same day- we may not know a full 72 hours after this one! I'm so glad to see someone else taking this treatment! Good luck on your husband's results and please keep me posted!


----------



## silverbell

Luvoboe said:


> Kendall,
> I'm guessing, just from the way he's able to perform, (he'd kill me if he saw me writing about this!) at least his testosterone is good. I can only hope that the results will be good. It's been a few days so I think I will call to see if there are any results back yet.

I definitely don't want to dishearten you and I am praying for super results for your husband, but my DH has never had any issues at all in the bedroom department and he has low Testosterone and is about to start replacement. So it can happen. I do hope it's not the case for your partner though, Kendall. :hugs: From what I have read it is quite unusual to have low Testosterone and no issues, though of course not impossible.



snd80 said:


> AFM- nothing to report.... still in waiting-limbo hell. Waiting on af to show up so I can start my first round of clomid and CD21 bloods after ov. May needs to HURRY THE HELL UP! :haha: I spend allllll my free time in the gym to make it go by faster, but it doesn't. :nope: That's about it for me! Oh, and guess we will start to official donor search and picking out "the one" next month! Guess that is something to look forward to! :shrug:

Definitely something to look forward to! It's one step closer and once we got over the surreal feeling of picking the future biological father of our child, we actually quite enjoyed it. Not sure if that makes us crazy or not :wacko: Spending time in the gym is all good, getting your body fitter for carrying that baby you so deserve.


AFM - we had some amazing news in the past couple of days in that the NHS has agreed to fund us for up to 6 IUIs. :flower: We were previously told there wasn't a chance in hell pretty much but they'd write anyway. It looks like somebody took pity on us and we're over the moon. On CD2 and start my injections tomorrow with IUI likely to be 26 March. So excited to be actually, properly TTC with no issues and as much chance of getting pregnant as any other fertile couple :thumbup:


----------



## waitingginger

hi all
I havent visited in a long time as its just been one hell of a long wait.

My OH soerm level now seems of settles around the 6mil mark, not enough to get pregnant naturally but enough to move forward with IUI or IVF. in the 2 years since his 0 sperm count samples we have not been on any sort fo fertility treatment wiating list and so now face a further wait whilst we come to the top of the list for treatment.

I am so glad that most of you ladies are getting further along with your treatment and will soon have beautiful babies in your arms!

Much love


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## MJ73

Hi Girls,

Wow, so much happening, so much to catch up on.

A huge, friendly welcome to all the newbies :hugs:, you have found a great bunch of girls here. We all know how tough it can be, especially at the beginning. It is a constant process of ups & downs & dealing with the grief that things will never happen naturally. Just know that you're not alone & at least we're all in this together.

*Waiting ginger *that is great news, re the sperm count. My DH would love not to have to go through another TESE.

*SB*, so happy for you :thumbup:, that you have funding for IUI. You deserve it hun.

*Deb*, so lovely to hear things progressing well. A lovely strong heartbeat; what a blessing for you & Terry:happydance:

*SND*, I know the waiting sucks, but not long now sweetie. You are so lovely stopping in to give out some love. I just wanted to pop in to have a moan:wacko:

*Canadian*, not sure if you're still reading, but my heart goes out to you hun, we all understand & are here for you when you're able to face things again.

*KB*, thinking about you. Doesn't it suck living in Australia & needing to use donor sperm? Could they make it any harder? I feel for you hun. This journey sucks big time & having to go through all the added red tape & counselling just to access sperm is like rubbing salt into the wounds. I can recommend Helping the Stork book too. I've only just started it, but it offers good food for thought.

Sorry if I left anyone out:hugs:.

AFM, well Mum came out of hospital today, she had some blood transfusions last week that seemed to help her recovery. So that is a big relief. Like I said on the FB page, I'm having one of those weepy, 'will it ever happen for us?' days today. Just feeling like it is so easy for everyone else (not everyone on here) & can't help at the moment thinking about the baby we miscarried & how old they would be now etc. Angry at God, angry at the world but hope I'll wake up feeling better tomorrow.


----------



## snd80

Oh, MJ, my thoughts and prayers are with you!

SB- That is sooooo awesome! Gosh, I wish the states were that great, but nooooo... *sigh*

Hope everyone else has a great day!


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## silverbell

waitingginger said:


> hi all
> I havent visited in a long time as its just been one hell of a long wait.
> 
> My OH soerm level now seems of settles around the 6mil mark, not enough to get pregnant naturally but enough to move forward with IUI or IVF. in the 2 years since his 0 sperm count samples we have not been on any sort fo fertility treatment wiating list and so now face a further wait whilst we come to the top of the list for treatment.

Hi waitingginger :wave:

At least you'll be on a list now - that's the final hurdle. You're nearly there :hugs: Great news that the sperm level is 6 million. I know it probably doesn't seem great to the average couple and it's a shame you still need IUI or IVF, but of course to most of us that's an AMAZING number. :thumbup:



MJ73 said:


> AFM, well Mum came out of hospital today, she had some blood transfusions last week that seemed to help her recovery. So that is a big relief. Like I said on the FB page, I'm having one of those weepy, 'will it ever happen for us?' days today. Just feeling like it is so easy for everyone else (not everyone on here) & can't help at the moment thinking about the baby we miscarried & how old they would be now etc. Angry at God, angry at the world but hope I'll wake up feeling better tomorrow.

MJ, I'm glad to hear your mother is out of hospital and recovering. :hugs:

I think we've all had those days and I definitely hear you with the anger. Sadness, anger and frustration are the 3 words that most sum up my experience of infertility I would say. Thinking of you and hoping you feel better tomorrow :hugs:


----------



## nightdaze

Sorry for not writing more personal messages to you all - but I am reading and getting to know where you are all at on this crazy journey.

We went back to our GP yesterday because we just don't really know what to do at this point. He has referred us to a urologist but we have no idea when that appointment will be - it could be months and months down the road. DH has done 2 SA and blood work (I should have checked what the blood work was for, I know they were checking testosterone and FSH and some other stuff).

So - it is going to be ages before we know anything. Do you guys have any advice on other tests we can do - genetic, etc. - in the meantime to make sure that once we do go to the urologist we will have all the information possible? I'm try to be proactive because sitting around is killing me. We are in Canada where there is no private health care which is great but in a situation like this I would happily pay someone to be seen sooner.

Also - does anyone else have a partner who has a varicocele? DH has had lots of problems with his and I know some doctors say that this doesn't matter with regards to fertility but I think it might have something to do with this - maybe it is wishful thinking.

Hope you are all well. xo


----------



## silverbell

nightdaze said:


> So - it is going to be ages before we know anything. Do you guys have any advice on other tests we can do - genetic, etc. - in the meantime to make sure that once we do go to the urologist we will have all the information possible? I'm try to be proactive because sitting around is killing me. We are in Canada where there is no private health care which is great but in a situation like this I would happily pay someone to be seen sooner.

Hi night

I would definitely recommend trying to get the following genetic blood tests done: cystic fibrosis carrier, karyotype and Y-microdeletions. If any of these 3 are positive it can explain the azoo and may mean certain treatments are not an option. I live in England and had to persuade our doctor to do these tests after I'd taken it upon myself to find out the procedure. I did this by contacting the Pathology lab at our local hospital and asking them and explaining what it was for. They told us they would happily take the blood, but didn't have the knowledge or facilities to test it at the hospital and gave me the address of where the blood tests should be sent. We went to our GP and asked him for the blood form and I knew that once DH had had the tests taken he had to tell the nurse to send it to the genetics hospital address.

You'll most likely have to get used to doing a lot of your own leg-work I'm afraid, as the medical profession are really rather clueless about all of this. It stinks, but it's the truth.

Other than these genetics tests I'm not really sure what other tests would be required before you see the Urologist. 

If I were you I would personally get a referral to your local Fertility Clinic or Gynaecologist in order that you can be checked over yourself and at least be 'on the books' ready for when your DH's investigations have been completed. This cuts a lot more waiting time out. My GP was initially a little reluctant, but I said I needed to know I was OK or we were just wasting our time getting DH to do all these tests!

It may also be worth getting the opinion of a specialist in this area. I know Dr Schlegel in the US offers phone consultations, though I do believe he usually needs to know the results of a few tests prior to that. I don't know much more than that, but hopefully somebody else will be along soon who knows.

I hope some of this has helped :hugs:


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## Deb111

Nightdaze - a varicocele can definitely be a major factor in this and could mean he's making sperm but they just can't get out. I think SB has pretty much covered the blood tests / genetic tests, but there a thing to click on in the first post of the thread which suggests some things to check get done


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## nightdaze

Thanks Deb and Silverbell, you guys are amazing. I wish I could just have an appointment tomorrow to figure this all out but it is a long road ahead and I'm grateful to you for helping me out - this is all so new to me. 
x


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## Kendall29

So we just got DH's results back from the RE after his 3 months of hcg injections. It was good news- there were 16 million total although only 1 million were useable. We are very encouraged by this although it is not enough to try IUI yet. I am thrilled that the number is above zero but I have to admit I was a little bit sad that we've got to wait longer now- I hate all of this waiting! But all in all, great news, great day!


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## lbm2009

Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar situation to us. We had semen analysis done results came back showing only three dead sperm. Husband had undecended testicals that were fixed when he was young. He's had blood tests that all came back fine. So it looks like its a blockage. Where do we go from here? I need to loose 1 stone before they will carry on with tests. I just want a baby so much. I feel like my life has no purpose.


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## deafgal01

:hi: everyone! :hugs: to all of you!

I guess I should update all of you on my dh. He went in for blood work test recently (Monday I think it was). Today we found out the medicine is helping his testosterone level to rise- but it's also making something else (he couldn't remember what) lowered so as a result, it's not doing the job, it's supplying oxygen and storing that in his fat. :dohh: So they're going to start him on another medicine with the current one to prevent that and retest his blood levels in 4 weeks. No idea if this treatment is going to work or not for us. :shrug: It seems like a very long wait... It's all we ever do (all of us- wait and test, wait and test)...


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## silverbell

Kendall29 said:


> So we just got DH's results back from the RE after his 3 months of hcg injections. It was good news- there were 16 million total although only 1 million were useable. We are very encouraged by this although it is not enough to try IUI yet. I am thrilled that the number is above zero but I have to admit I was a little bit sad that we've got to wait longer now- I hate all of this waiting! But all in all, great news, great day!

That is fantastic news, Kendall! No wonder you're both very encouraged. I know precisely what you mean about the waiting though and I know I can speak for every one of us here when I say we understand that any more waiting is frustrating and upsetting. It's all us azoo couples ever seem to be doing, isn't it? Fabulous news though - congrats! :hugs:



lbm2009 said:


> Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar situation to us. We had semen analysis done results came back showing only three dead sperm. Husband had undecended testicals that were fixed when he was young. He's had blood tests that all came back fine. So it looks like its a blockage. Where do we go from here? I need to loose 1 stone before they will carry on with tests. I just want a baby so much. I feel like my life has no purpose.

Hi lbm :hugs: We all know that feeling, so you've come to the right place. Everybody's very nice and understanding here.

I would definitely get your DH referred to a Urologist so that they can do scans etc and check to see if there is indeed a visible blockage. If there is something causing a blockage then these are also the people who could treat that as necessary. 

In the meantime I would certainly sign up for a well-structured diet program and lose that stone, as it'll speed things along and will mean they've no more excuses not to treat the both of you. Weight Watchers is fantastic and I've used their online program many times and lost easily with it. I'm not sure of any others as I haven't tried them, but I'm sure you can find one that will suit you. :hugs:



deafgal01 said:


> :hi: everyone! :hugs: to all of you!
> 
> I guess I should update all of you on my dh. He went in for blood work test recently (Monday I think it was). Today we found out the medicine is helping his testosterone level to rise- but it's also making something else (he couldn't remember what) lowered so as a result, it's not doing the job, it's supplying oxygen and storing that in his fat. :dohh: So they're going to start him on another medicine with the current one to prevent that and retest his blood levels in 4 weeks. No idea if this treatment is going to work or not for us. :shrug: It seems like a very long wait... It's all we ever do (all of us- wait and test, wait and test)...

Hi deafgal - I'm sorry about all the problems. Nothing's ever easy is it? I know just what you mean about the waiting. It really does suck. Fingers crossed that this treatment works better and in 4 weeks you'll be posting on here with some great news :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Great new Kendall - any progress is great!! :thumbup:

Ibm - definitely get a repeat SA done and make sure they centrifuge the sample. Even though some are dead, there may still be areas of the testes making perfectly healthy sperm

Deafgal - I can't remember what treatment your dh is on, but I know with Terry they put him on tamoxifen, which were great for his testosterone but also raised his oestrogen levels which cancelled some of the testosterone out. They put him on arimadex then which also raised his testosterone but didn't push his oestrogen up xx


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## snd80

Sorry girls, I am gonna throw a little fit.... :hissy:

My SIL just called and told me.... she's pg w/ #4! Really?! Now, grant it, she does know all the struggles we are having and we are close, but it's like OMG! Everyone around me lately is pg!

OK, rant over! On to the gym!


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## lbm2009

Hi deb111, we had two sa done, both were centrifuged one hand no sperms, the other had three. I have spoken to an ivf clinic and they have also suggested a urologist so ill call my husbands unhelpful idiot of a doctor who told us "you need ivf, go pay for it yourself" even though our pct offers 1 funded course. 

Silver bell - I'm currently doing weight watchers, lost 1st 7 so far, should get this next stone off by may :). I've tried slimming world but I always get stuck after a stone so weightwatchers works best for me.


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## deafgal01

Snd :hugs: Rant away honey. We all have days like that. :hugs: Hang in there- focus on losing that weight while you're waiting.

Hope everyone's having a good weekend. I know it could be better by getting bfps for all of us but that's not realistic- but hopefully soon we all will have a bfp.

Deb- how's your pregnancy going?


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## wibble wobble

Hey everyone just a quick check in to say hi. Hope everyone is doing ok.

Welcome to the newbies sorry you have to join us here though,it really does suck having a zero sperm count. It's good to be around people that know exactly how it feels so your less alone :)

It's my mums birthday today and mothers day tomorrow so I have plenty of gifts to spoil her with when I visit tomorrow. I've also bought my gran some flowers as she doesn't have any children anymore :( it must be so horrible to have out lived both your sons... I really don't know how she's managed to carry on.... I was thinking about it earlier and the worst thing I've ever had to do in my whole life is tell my gran that my dad had died, it's worse than suffering this long and tedious infertility journey. My gran is the most sweetest little old lady you could ever hope to meet and I destroyed her life one sunday afternoon... well cancer did! 

Tomorrow is also the 1 year anniversary of the first ZERO sperm count... funny thing is now it doesn't seem like it's forever ago if that makes sense. I guess what I'm saying is that actually the years gone pretty quick even tho at some points it was dragging by so slowly that waiting for letters and appointments and operations was driving me crazy! I'm actually quite positive going into our appointment next tuesday now, I may have to wait a while for a donor match but everything else is done I'm good to go I just need that flag waving in front of me before I set off!!!!


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## Deb111

Pregnancy is going well thanks Deafgal - I'm exhausted like I've never known and seem to swing between constipation from the progesterone and the opposite from my IBS which has flared up since I've been pregnant so my stomach is often feeling horribly uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining; it's just not very pleasant especially when it's an area of my body so near to the baby, but I manage to be level headed about the discomfort (most of the time!) and not start thinking something's wrong.

Wibble - I'm glad you're feeling positive about things :thumbup: It can't be easy for your nan - bless her xx


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## lbm2009

Just had the worst thought . Maybe I will never be a mother, it's such a horrible thought I can't get it out of my head. I love the man snoring next to me so much we have been together since we were 15. All I want is to have a family together to make our life complete. To love nurture and teach I know we will make wonderful parents and just want the chance . I read all these horrid stories about how others treat their innocent children and it makes me feel sick, these people are the ones who should have fertility problems so they canno inflict pain and suffering. Another reason why I have no faith in a god. If there was a god there would be no need for this forum. please let 2012 be our year! I'm surrounded by pregnant friends. Rant over and I feel loads better after a good cry. Lots of baby dust to you all.


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## deafgal01

Deb-great to hear that you're doing very well and baby's on track.

lbm- :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: We all have had days like that. I hope that you do get a bfp at some point this year though and that dream of being a mother will come true. I agree it sucks that there's such awful parents out there who don't treat their kids decently. :dohh: Arugh.

Wibble- so sweet of you to think of your gran at a time like this. I can't imagine how hard it has to be to go on living after your own kids pass away before you. It shouldn't be like that but it does happen. :shrug: Hope your mum has a great mother's day. Wibble- I hope you do treat yourself too since you have the ability of being a mother too. I hope one day soon you shall be announcing a bfp and be on your way to having a baby of your own to raise.


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## SunUp

Hey all!
Haven't been on in a while, I am sorry. I went back and caught up.
Welcome to the new group members, while no one wants to join, I think this group is probably the best on BNB! Ok, I am biased, but its great to have other people who are going through similar things and can be supportive.

So, DH had his Tese and we thought we would get all our answers right away. They said the area was really scarred from a previous surgery and didnt see any sperm in their sample - but we were supposed to get some more official results this week.

Well - they called and left a message that they sent the sample to ANOTHER lab-
And our center is one of the best in the area - So now I am at a total LOSS as to what they need another lab to look at? Anyone else ever have this happen???

So - another waiting game! I am getting pretty good at waiting - lol! Its awful but it always seems like there is something else we need to wait for!

DH have been talking a lot about our other options, and are pretty open to them.

I really wanted him to understand - that he is meant to be a father... and the things that I love about him were not something he 'got' in his genes, but rather things that he learned and was raised to do. His best qualities are things that are 'learned' and those are things I want him to teach our children - whether biologically they are from his sperm or not -they will be ours - whenever we have them.

Hope that makes sense.

Please know I haven't forgotten all of you, I just needed a break from thinking so much!

Hugs to you all!!!!!


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## deafgal01

Sunup- is it possible they wanted a second opinion to make sure their first thoughts about the results were correct before giving you the info? :shrug: That is odd when they are the best center. I don't know.


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## MJ73

Hi, how are all you gorgeous girls?

*lbm*; Sorry you're going through such a tough time:hugs:. I hope that it is of some comfort to know that you're not alone in what you're feeling. I feel like that often & this feeling of panic comes over me. It does just seem so unfair that what we desire so desperately & have to work so hard to get, comes so easily to many who are so undeserving.

*SND*; I agree, rant away hun:thumbup: I found out today that a friend of mine had her baby last week. She was at our engagement party & was still single, she hadn't even met her husband yet! And yet they have a baby already. In the time that we've been trying, they've met, got married & had a baby. Some days just suck!

*Sun*; so good to 'see' you again! Sorry that they are taking so long to get back to you with results, that must be pure torture. I am so sorry that any of us have to go through this. I think that is one of the toughest parts for us azoo girls; seeing our DHs work through it all... Excellent job on the FB page by the way :hugs:

*Wibble*; good to 'see' you again too! It sounds like things are moving along nicely for you guys. I feel a bit differently about time moving quickly. my body clock is ticking SO loudly & I would like time to slow down:wacko:

*Deafgal*; good luck with DH's new meds. FX for you guys :hugs:

*Deb*; great to hear things are progressing nicely. The tiredness is so overwhelming, isn't it? I only made it to 6 weeks, but that was my main symptom. That & food/smell sensitivity.

AFM, held it together all weekend while I've been caring for my Mum & then came home & burst into tears on DH's shoulder. Just feel like I can't handle any more stress in my life right now. Also feeling like, all I want is a baby... Is that too much to ask? 

Hugs to everyone!!!:hugs:


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## lbm2009

Thanks for your support I think this forum is just what I need. Speaking to people who are experiencing similar issues. Just had an argument with mother in law over my husbands doctor. She can see no wrong in him. This is the same doctor who told my husband "you have no sperm, go private. Even though our pct offers one course of ivf. A lovely way to spend mothers day. Grrrr! She's got a major chip on her shoulder because he's the family doctor and can do no wrong. He's useless my husband hasn't even seen a urologist yet.


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## cosita

Hi everyone, welcome to all the newbies, sorry to see you here but be sure that you will find everything you need here and more. I have to backtrack a little because I haven't been following all the stories so I apologize if I´m not much help for the moment. 
SunUp I am glad to hear from you I was curious about your results because we are at the same point (more or less). DH goes for biopsy on tuesday 27th. He is dreading it!! I am too, it must be soooo painful. I have had all my tests, everything seems ok but I have an appt with the gynae on Friday so she can put all the results together. DH and I are 100% sure about donor if we don't find anything on the 27th. We want a family, we want to share the great life we have together. I have only met my father in law once, this was when he was on weekend leave from prison. My husband is nothing like him!He was a father to him for a few years and after that just a man in and out of prison. Meeting my husband you would imagine his dad was a doctor or a lawyer or something. His values, his affection, his hopes and dreams, his intelligence were not transmitted to him through his genes!!Here in Spain, today is Father's Day, hopefully next year we will have something to celebrate!
Have a good day girls.


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## deafgal01

lbm- does your husband understand the different of a "family dr" vs "urologist"? What seems "ok" to a family dr might not be "normal" to a urologist. For example, we never knew the size of the testes mattered until my DH saw a urologist and found out that it was smaller than average. :shrug: It really sucks that the mil sees no wrong by the family dr. :dohh: Arugh. That makes things harder.

MJ- hope it won't be much longer of a wait for you to have a baby. :hugs: I know the days of such stress sometimes. :hugs: Hang in there girl.

Cosita- Good luck to your DH on the 27th... Hope you get some sort of good news. It is shocking when a parent is nothing like their child that they brought up/raised. I'm glad your DH managed to have good morals/values dispute the character of a father he has.


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## raelynn

Well ladies, hubby's TESE is tomorrow morning! Hopefully we get some good news! I think I am more nervous than he is :)


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## deafgal01

Good luck Rae!!!!!!


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## MJ73

raelynn said:


> Well ladies, hubby's TESE is tomorrow morning! Hopefully we get some good news! I think I am more nervous than he is :)

Keeping everything crossed for you & hubby xx


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## silverbell

lbm2009 said:


> Just had the worst thought . Maybe I will never be a mother, it's such a horrible thought I can't get it out of my head. I love the man snoring next to me so much we have been together since we were 15. All I want is to have a family together to make our life complete. ......

:hugs: I think we've all had these thoughts, lbm. It's such a horrible thing to go through and there are just no words to describe the pain, sadness, frustration and anger that you go through. But we all understand on here. You rant away if it helps :hugs: 2012 will be a good year for us on the azoo thread, I'm sure of it.



SunUp said:


> Well - they called and left a message that they sent the sample to ANOTHER lab-
> And our center is one of the best in the area - So now I am at a total LOSS as to what they need another lab to look at? Anyone else ever have this happen???
> 
> I really wanted him to understand - that he is meant to be a father... and the things that I love about him were not something he 'got' in his genes, but rather things that he learned and was raised to do. His best qualities are things that are 'learned' and those are things I want him to teach our children - whether biologically they are from his sperm or not -they will be ours - whenever we have them.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.

Hey Sunup :wave:

I hope you get the final results soon. I know ours were sent off to a specialist lab for more thorough investigation and we waited 2 weeks for our results, which was torture. I hope you get news very soon :hugs: 

I couldn't agree more with what you said about the best qualities being 'learned' rather than passed on biologically. It's totally true. Sometimes even genetics don't play as big a part visually as we would expect them to - kids can often look totally different to their parents and even hair different eye or hair colour. But I believe it's what you teach that child and how you nuture it that counts. Don't get me wrong, I would have given anything to have DH's child but that's really only because it would have been nice to have made a child that was half of each of us genetically. It isn't necessary though and I know it won't change how either of us feel about a baby, should we ever be blessed with one. We - like so many other infertility sufferers - have so much love we want to share.



cosita said:


> DH goes for biopsy on tuesday 27th. He is dreading it!! I am too, it must be soooo painful. I have had all my tests, everything seems ok but I have an appt with the gynae on Friday so she can put all the results together. DH and I are 100% sure about donor if we don't find anything on the 27th.

Hi Cosita! I hope all goes well on Tuesday. DH said (and a lot of other guys who have had the biopsy) that it wasn't as bad as he'd expected in such a sensitive area. I hope this is the case for your hubby too.

Glad you've decided on donor in case there's nothing on Tuesday (though I do hope there is). We feel exactly the same - it's nuture that moulds personality (the most important part of a person) and not genetics.



raelynn said:


> Well ladies, hubby's TESE is tomorrow morning! Hopefully we get some good news! I think I am more nervous than he is :)

Good luck to you and your husband this morning, raelynn. I hope you get the results very quickly and will be thinking of you both.


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## cosita

raelynn said:


> Well ladies, hubby's TESE is tomorrow morning! Hopefully we get some good news! I think I am more nervous than he is :)

Best of luck!! My fingers are crossed for you!:flower:


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## snd80

Good luck rae! Thinking of you both today!


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## nightdaze

Hi Ladies, happy Wednesday. Glad to hear that things are moving forward with all of you - Sunup, I hope you get your results very soon and Rae, best of luck today, I hope it all goes well.

We still haven't heard back about when our urologist appointment is going to be but hopefully they will call this week. In the meantime I am just trying to get through the days. DH and I are going to see a counsellor this afternoon, she specialises in infertility so hopefully that will help both of us get through this tough time. DH told me yesterday that he feels like I will never be able to love him the same since he might not be able to give me a family and hearing him say that just broke my heart. I have made sure to give him extra attention and love since we got this news because I didn't want him to think that it changed anything between us. I think talking to someone might help him a bit.

DH had bloodwork done last week and I know I should call and get the results but I'm really nervous. I know I'm not a doctor but I know that the results might not tell me what I want to hear.

On a positive note, my brother and his girlfriend who live with me and DH, are moving out in 2 weeks. She is 13 weeks pregnant (not planned - they were only dating for 3 months) and I can't wait until they are out of my house. It is just way too hard to be around right now.

My work week is half over and I couldn't be happier. Hope you are all having a lovely day. xo


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## nightdaze

I called to get the blood test results - FSH levels were 25.9, everything else was normal. How devastating.


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## cosita

Hi girls, 
I have a question about the TESE, DH and I were just discussing it and realised we don't know if he has to 'save up' sperm or not for the proceedure. Is it like before an SA? Or does it really not matter? Our andrologist never mentioned it and we never thought to ask. 
On another note, where any of your cycles affected by HSG? 
Thanks girls


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## cosita

nightdaze said:


> I called to get the blood test results - FSH levels were 25.9, everything else was normal. How devastating.

Sorry to hear that nightdaze, I don't really know what it means. I do know that its so important to stay positive. :flower:


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## raelynn

Well it was a long hard day but we're in the home stretch now. Thank you all for the well wishes! Hubby is doing much better and I just have to love him more for being so brave and going through this. We got excellent news. The plan was to take up to 3 samples from each side and the Urologist was going to take a look at the 1st sample on each side to see if they needed to gather more or not. He found one sperm in the 1st sample on one side so he took the rest of the samples from that side near the same area. He took 5 samples total. So we know we have at least one little swimmer to work with! We have to wait for about 10 days to get the official results and find out if there is more than one. At least we'll have a chance with the one!


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## wibble wobble

Congrats rae on the find I hope there is many more waiting to be found in those samples

Nightdaze sorry to hear your result, a urologist still may be able to find sperm through tese,don't give up just yet x

afm had appointment yesterday and we're now officially through all the tests and I'm just waiting for an Ivf planning appointment and some sperm before we go ahead :)


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## Deb111

Gosh so much to catch up on!

Rae - that's great news! Keeping everything crossed for more great news soon.

Nightdaze - I hope the counselling helped. Don't give up with those blood results; it just means your dh's body has recognised there is a problem. It possibly means some areas are ok even though many are not. They can push his FSH even higher and hopefully drive the 'good' areas to produce more sperm.

Great news Wibble :thumbup:

Love and hugs to everyone else xx


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## Luvoboe

Got our sperm results back. Still zero. Life sucks. I can't even cry and show how I really feel because it will make my husband feel bad. I just really need a shoulder to cry on but there is no one who understands. No one. Don't get me wrong. You guys are great and help a lot but sometimes it helps to get a hug from someone who actually cares and understands. I could really use a hug and some comforting. And I don't even like hugs... Life sucks.


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## wibble wobble

Luvoboe this isn't the same as a real hug but thinking of you 

(((((big hugs)))))


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## nightdaze

Oh Luvoboe, I know exactly how you feel. We seem to be right around the same place at the beginning of a very long road. It is so hard to stay positive, I am struggling a lot just to get through my days. It is pretty lonely when you have no one who understands and no one to talk to about all of this.

I know you want to stay strong for your husband but it is ok to cry with him, the two of you are in this together and it will make you stronger together if you open up to each other. I can't imagine how hard this is on our husbands, they are feeling so many of the same emotions as we are but also a whole different level of feeling like crap. 

This is really hard Luvoboe, no one can say anything to make it better. Just take things day by day.

Deb - thanks for the info. I'm not sure how this all works, I know there is still a chance that they will be able to find some sperm but I guess we will just have to wait until we see the Urologist. I wish I knew what the chances were though and what kind of timeline we are looking at to get the appointments to find out. I'm a planner! I hate all of this waiting and not know what kind of direction my life is going in!


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## Deb111

Luvoboe - I'm sorry this is so hard. Have you had any counselling yet? Your fertility clinic should offer it. It can be really helpful for getting things out of your system and a bit clearer in your head. Maybe just drive somewhere and sit and cry, scream, shout - whatever you need if you feel you can't do it in front of your dh xx

Nightdaze - remind me where you live? You can get a free 10 minute phone consultation with dr Turek (google him) - even if you don't decide to use him - he will give you a useful appraisal of your dh's blood test results and might help to get things clearer in your head xx


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## nightdaze

Deb111 said:


> Nightdaze - remind me where you live? You can get a free 10 minute phone consultation with dr Turek (google him) - even if you don't decide to use him - he will give you a useful appraisal of your dh's blood test results and might help to get things clearer in your head xx

Thanks Deb. I live in Canada and was actually thinking of giving him a call, I have been researching a few different doctors in case it comes down to us having to travel outside of our province for help. I don't know what the capabilities of are for the clinic in town, I'm sure they do TESE but I want to know what other options are available elsewhere to us. I think I'm going to get a part time job (in addition to my full time job) to start saving my pennies!


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## Deb111

Definitely give him a call then - we did and what he told us was very similar to what we eventually ended up doing. He was realistic but very positive about our results and it really helped to put our minds at rest whilst we were waiting for appts here. It also gave us some good pointers on things to ask our urologist about when we saw him :thumbup:


----------



## MJ73

Hi girls.
Luv, I'm sorry you're going through this. But hang in there. Each step of the way is tough & can be heartbreaking. We, on this thread are your friends & send you virtual hugs.

I hope it's okay, I'm on my mobile so just copied this from my journal. It saves me having to type it all out again on my phone.

Well today has been a bit of a tough day, our FS's office kinda stuffed up & sent us the results for Simon's ultrasound & bloods. I am not a doctor, but obviously am worried that it says there is a lesion on Simon's testicle that needs to be biopsied. We have been told that as Simon has one undescended teste (won't he be glad I've written about that )he is at an increased risk of cancer, so this is quite worrying for us. We weren't supposed to get the results emailed to us, the receptionist was supposed to call & make an appt for us to see the FS. We still have no answers tonight, but we do have an appt with the FS on Weds. Till then we are telling ourselves the lesion is just scar tissue from the TESE & biopsy. Poor Simon sent me a text telling me that he's feeling a bit blue tonight. Unfortunately I'm up at my Mum's caring for her so can't be with him to comfort him. Poor love, he's been so strong throughout all this IF stuff,but I know it really is tough on him.


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## Pink Lolly

MJ73 said:


> Hi girls.
> Luv, I'm sorry you're going through this. But hang in there. Each step of the way is tough & can be heartbreaking. We, on this thread are your friends & send you virtual hugs.
> 
> I hope it's okay, I'm on my mobile so just copied this from my journal. It saves me having to type it all out again on my phone.
> 
> Well today has been a bit of a tough day, our FS's office kinda stuffed up & sent us the results for Simon's ultrasound & bloods. I am not a doctor, but obviously am worried that it says there is a legion on Simon's testicle that needs to be biopsied. We have been told that as Simon has one undescended teste (won't he be glad I've written about that )he is at an increased risk of cancer, so this is quite worrying for us. We weren't supposed to get the results emailed to us, the receptionist was supposed to call & make an appt for us to see the FS. We still have no answers tonight, but we do have an appt with the FS on Weds. Till then we are telling ourselves the legion is just scar tissue from the TESE & biopsy. Poor Simon sent me a text telling me that he's feeling a bit blue tonight. Unfortunately I'm up at my Mum's caring for her so can't be with him to comfort him. Poor love, he's been so strong throughout all this IF stuff,but I know it really is tough on him.

Oh MJ sorry to read this and that is shocking that you found out the results in that way. Love and hugs to you and your DH and hopefully its nothing to worry about :hug:


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## Pink Lolly

Hey all :wave:

I've just caught up on al of your news but there are too many to mention individually. I can't believe how many girls are on this thread now! Well done Deb for setting up such a fab group - where would we be without it?!

Hugs to all those struggling at the mo, and those who have received bad news :hug: I think we have all been there. 

AFM I just had my second DIUI today and have everything crossed for a :bfp: - I want to be bump buddies with Deb and Silverbell when she gets her :bfp: really soon!! xx


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## Deb111

:hugs: So sorry MJ - I'm sure all will be fine and at least you don't have long to wait for your appt. Seriously though, the amount of 'medical' errors, mistakes, **** ups and incorrect info we've been through in this group is crazy!!!

Hope your Mum's doing well and that you're back with dh soon xx


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## snd80

Pink Lolly said:


> Hey all :wave:
> 
> I've just caught up on al of your news but there are too many to mention individually. I can't believe how many girls are on this thread now! Well done Deb for setting up such a fab group - where would we be without it?!

I know, right?! I probably would have offed myself months ago w/out all the support on this thread!!! She is truly an awesome lady! :thumbup:


----------



## snd80

:hugs: to MJ! Thinking of you both! 

I swear, it seems that if it isn't one thing, it's another whilst going along this journey!!! :nope:


----------



## Pink Lolly

snd80 said:


> :hugs: to MJ! Thinking of you both!
> 
> I swear, it seems that if it isn't one thing, it's another whilst going along this journey!!! :nope:

Totally agree with this - it's one thing after another!


----------



## Deb111

snd80 said:


> Pink Lolly said:
> 
> 
> Hey all :wave:
> 
> I've just caught up on al of your news but there are too many to mention individually. I can't believe how many girls are on this thread now! Well done Deb for setting up such a fab group - where would we be without it?!
> 
> I know, right?! I probably would have offed myself months ago w/out all the support on this thread!!! She is truly an awesome lady! :thumbup:Click to expand...

Thanks girls, but I only set up a page - it's all of us (yes! let's blow our own trumpets!! :thumbup:) amazing and strong women who have made this group what it is today :kiss:


----------



## snd80

Pink Lolly said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> :hugs: to MJ! Thinking of you both!
> 
> I swear, it seems that if it isn't one thing, it's another whilst going along this journey!!! :nope:
> 
> Totally agree with this - it's one thing after another!Click to expand...

Speaking of... (and please don't judge me), but... the man that owns the furniture store I work at had to have a double bypass done today, and all I have been worried about this week is "please let everything go ok, cause if he dies, between his 2nd wife and his kids fighting over what he has, I will be outta a job and will have to use my baby fund to get by while looking for a new one!" Is that not terrible!!!! That all I could think of was myself! But I have been working towards this for soooooo long now, another set back would have done me in, especially when I am THIS close! Thankfully, so far so good with him! He made it through ok and is in recovery... Now I feel bad for being so selfish! God, please don't punish me for that! [-o&lt;


----------



## deafgal01

Snd- :hugs: No worries. You do have to look out for yourself. Sad but this world has become one where many have to look out for their own self rather than be considerate of others. I'm glad the owner survived the surgery and is recovering. :grr: I can't believe that his 2nd wife and kids would be the type to fight over such silly things. :dohh: I wonder if he has a will written up. Hmmm... Kind of morbid to ask someone that. :shrug: It's like asking if they have a grave plot already.

:hi: How's everyone holding up? I've been throwing myself into work and school. :shrug:


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## Deb111

Sorry to hear about your boss hun :hugs: Don't beat yourself up - this journey has made us all feel things we don't like feeling and, speaking for myself, has, at times made me someone I don't like very much. I defy anyone to go through such a horrible journey and not feel bitter or selfish at one time or another (not that I think you are being selfish by the way!)


----------



## snd80

Thanks girls! You have NO IDEA how these ppl are! Like you said, plotting like he is already dead! His wife hollering if something happenes to him, she was shutting these doors; his son crying, not over the fact of him being sick, but the fact that he would have to put up with the wife if everything isn't in order (he thinks the business is going to him in the event if his dad dies)... just a bunch of shit! As one who has lost a parent, I'm thinking ok... you will regret this one day!! Some people!


----------



## deafgal01

That is dramatic. Too bad that he married her. If he hadn't, things would be so much less complicated, especially where his kids are involved (it doesn't matter how old they are- still affects them one way or another). My MIL had to deal with something similar- not as bad as that situation you're telling us of but still kind of dramatic nevertheless because her 2nd husband's kids expected more stuff to be given to them than what he had written in the will (and she actually had to convince him to put them in his will and give them some things). Eventually she got fed up with them asking for more stuff like photos their dad took and stuff after he passed away, I think she ended up standing up to them and sending a letter to them to tell them to stop. :shrug:

:hugs: Snd :hugs: You just need a real hug on days like this. I wish we all were closer to you.


----------



## SunUp

Hey everyone! I hope you all are doing well - I love how far we have all come, if you read back to where we were in the early threads, we have made a lot of progress. I know it seems like its a long wait but hopefully by this time next year we will have lots of little ones and pregnant moms, thinking about how much we went through, but how worth it it is!


----------



## Pink Lolly

SunUp said:


> Hey everyone! I hope you all are doing well - I love how far we have all come, if you read back to where we were in the early threads, we have made a lot of progress. I know it seems like its a long wait but hopefully by this time next year we will have lots of little ones and pregnant moms, thinking about how much we went through, but
> how worth it it is!

Love this!! Xx


----------



## cosita

SunUp said:


> Hey everyone! I hope you all are doing well - I love how far we have all come, if you read back to where we were in the early threads, we have made a lot of progress. I know it seems like its a long wait but hopefully by this time next year we will have lots of little ones and pregnant moms, thinking about how much we went through, but how worth it it is!

I love this too! It's so true, we should take time to look back and realise how far we have all come. I had a bit of a meltdown the other day. I went to my follow up with gynae on Friday after hsg etc and the results were all perfect. Why the meltdown you mind ask? :dohh:
I don't know, I think I just really want to prepare myself for the possibilty of using donor sperm and until now I had always been worried about my husband, about how he would feel. Then I started to realise, that I might actually feel worse!! I thought that the one thing I want is to see the man I love in our children, and if anything would happen to him I could continue seeing him through them. I felt very selfish but I eventually told him and I´m glad I did because he said the most amazing thing....
He said that I would see him through their memories, through how they are, through all the things we will do together. :hugs:
He really hit the nail on the head. 
Hope you have a good weekend girls x


----------



## Deb111

Cosita - that is really beautiful what your dh said :cloud9:


----------



## snd80

Hello girlies! Hope everyone is having a great day!!!!

Well, just wanted to give a little update on myself. I finished my first round of clomid last night. Now it is a waiting game.... but I did something very exciting today though! I purchased the donor profile search and started looking at donor profile picts!!!!!!!!!!!! But I am very disappointed so far! I guess I dreamed that I could find one that would be my husband's twin, and so far I have not seen one that even remotely looks like him!!!!! My stomach is in knots!!! :cry: Gosh, IDK what to do now!!!!! Don't get me wrong, there are some really good looking guys on there, but none look a thing like my hubby!!!! And we want people to think it _is_ his baby. I know I don't have to choose one today, but this is just gonna be harder than I thought!! :nope:


----------



## Pink Lolly

snd80 said:


> Hello girlies! Hope everyone is having a great day!!!!
> 
> Well, just wanted to give a little update on myself. I finished my first round of clomid last night. Now it is a waiting game.... but I did something very exciting today though! I purchased the donor profile search and started looking at donor profile picts!!!!!!!!!!!! But I am very disappointed so far! I guess I dreamed that I could find one that would be my husband's twin, and so far I have not seen one that even remotely looks like him!!!!! My stomach is in knots!!! :cry: Gosh, IDK what to do now!!!!! Don't get me wrong, there are some really good looking guys on there, but none look a thing like my hubby!!!! And we want people to think it _is_ his baby. I know I don't have to choose one today, but this is just gonna be harder than I thought!! :nope:

Hi Snd

Sorry you're having trouble choosing a donor but please try not to worry....remember it doesn't need to look exactly like your DH. The most important thing is that the key characteristics match like hair colour, eye colour, height, build etc. xxx


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi SND, I know it is hard, it took me 10 months before I could actually start to look after we found out we could not have a child together, my DH took the news better than me, as he just wanted to make me happy (also he already had a son - now aged 20 - which I think helped him).

I was really worried about rejecting the child or not wanting it once it was here, because of "what" it was, I was also really worried it would just look like the other person and not me at all and I would always see someone else in them. I had a tought time, I did now know how some people can just move straight onto it, but everyone is different, I know there are benefits to just getting on with it, but I had to take time to grieve for our loss and adjust to this. even now I am still greiving, 1 1/2 years later and I DO NOT want to do this (and thats the thing I struggle with most), but I have accepted that this is all we've got.

When I started looking the first time I was too trying to find his identicle match, but in the end we found someone who had the right hair colour, face shape and eye colour, who also had lots of sisters and aunts (as idealy we would like a girl). Unfortunately we had 3 failed goes with this one and it was suggested that this was because we were incompatible??? So we had to start the process again, which was tough again!

I also needed CMV negative which restricted the choice to barely nothing, so it has taken us 5 months to find a donor this time that we liked and we are starting again next month.

Eventually you feel happy with your choice and it all feels "nearly right" and you get excited. Just take it all step by step, remember there is no rush, just take your time and get used to the idea before you rush into it. take your time to greive for your loss, because that is what it is - a loss.

Good luck, x


----------



## Pink Lolly

Hi step mummy :wave:

Lovely to see you here again. Sorry about the three failed iuis - using a new donor sounds like a good plan!

Fingers crossed for you xx


----------



## cosita

Hi girls, 
well we just got back from my husbands biopsy and it looks like good news!! My DH was completely on a high after being sedated but he said the doc clearly said they found sperm. Later I asked the nurse (didn't see doc) and he said it was true. Of course we have no idea how much or in what state it is in and we won't know for another two weeks. Arrrggghhh! I don't want to get my hopes up, but its a hell of a lot better than not finding anything right!!
Any of you who have been through this, what is it they do with the sperm now? What are they looking for? 
DH feels fine, said it was the best sleep in the world!


----------



## snd80

Thanks girls! I hope it was just the "first-look" jitters!

Step Mommy- Thanks for your advice... It's not that I am not ready to move on to this, but more that I had this idea implanted in my brain that I was gonna find another Marty out there! Another bad thing is he is thinking the same thing as I am, that we will find his "twin". I have chosen a few and saved them for him to look over this weekend so once I get him involved, I'm sure these feelings will go away!

I too am CMV-, so you know how the choices are sooo limited!!! I even thought about looking into another bank, but have already spent $175 to look on xytex, and my specialist in Jackson said they have the best quality specamins of all, so I almost feel stuck with them!!! Ahhhhhh!!! I think I am just getting worked up over nothing, but me being me, that is just how I am wired... always thinking ahead! LOL!


----------



## Deb111

Great news so far Cosita - I'm not sure what they will be looking for because things like motility don't matter with ICSI. Keeping everything crossed for more great news to come xx


----------



## cosita

Deb111 said:


> Great news so far Cosita - I'm not sure what they will be looking for because things like motility don't matter with ICSI. Keeping everything crossed for more great news to come xx

Yeah I don't know either, but I am happy with the news so far. How are you keeping Deb? Has the shock worn off yet?!:happydance:


----------



## Pink Lolly

Great news cosita! :dance: :dance: 

I can't help about the sperm but I'd say any is better than none! :thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

cosita said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Great news so far Cosita - I'm not sure what they will be looking for because things like motility don't matter with ICSI. Keeping everything crossed for more great news to come xx
> 
> Yeah I don't know either, but I am happy with the news so far. How are you keeping Deb? Has the shock worn off yet?!:happydance:Click to expand...

I'm ok thanks - not feeling great but surviving! Still don't think it's sunk in most fo the time but scan tomorrow and it should be looking more like a baby than a blob :thumbup:


----------



## wibble wobble

Great news cosita xx


----------



## raelynn

That is great news Cosita! I guess we're both in the waiting game right now for the lab to do whatever it is they do before we can get our final results :) Waiting is no fun but it seems to be all we do anymore.


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## deafgal01

How's everyone holding up? Deb- you'll have to let us know how the scan goes tomorrow.

I'm doing fine. Keeping busy with work and school as usual. I'm really looking forward to having a week off from work next week. I need it for my sanity to recharge. :rofl:


----------



## cosita

raelynn said:


> That is great news Cosita! I guess we're both in the waiting game right now for the lab to do whatever it is they do before we can get our final results :) Waiting is no fun but it seems to be all we do anymore.

Hi, I know the waiting is the worst, but it has taught me to patient about other things aswell, thats me, always looking for a bright side!!:flower:


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## Deb111

So scan all went fine and managed to sneak a look round our local maternity unit today - all starting to feel a bit more real now! xx


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## deafgal01

:yipee: Glad it's becoming more real to you now that baby looks more like a baby than a mass of something. :thumbup: Are you going to find out the gender or be on team yellow and wait to find out the surprise when baby's born?


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## Deb111

Well I have ALWAYS wanted a girl - for as long as I can remember and I used to think I wouldn't want to know because if they told me it was a boy I'd be a bit disappointed, even though I knew when it arrived I'd be thrilled whatever. So I always thought I'd like the suprirse as I'd be delighted whatever.

However, Terry wants to know for the nursery (even though I've told him I'm not into the whole blue for a boy and pink for a girl - I much prefer the neutral schemes) and after what we've been through, I really couldn't care less what it is as long as it's healthy so I know if we find out there wont be a glimmer of disappointment.

My concern though, is that Terry CANNOT keep ANYTHING to himself! And if we find out I don't want ANYONE (except you B'n'B girls) knowing and I'm not sure I can rely on him for that so we're a little unsure right now :shrug:


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## deafgal01

That's a tough decision when he wants to know and you want to be surprised. Hopefully you two will figure out what you both want in the end and maybe be surprised when baby is born. I like the neutral color theme idea. If you did that, which color scheme are you doing for nursery? I know one of my girlfriends did brown walls for her nursery- then now with her baby born, she gets to add accents/splashes of colors in the decorations for the room. At least you have basically another 11 weeks to decide that, then if you two still haven't agreed, you can always put off finding out until you two do agree. :shrug: Good luck deciding on whether to know or not. I used to want to know when I get the chance but now I think I might have changed my mind and want to be surprised... :shrug: Like you said, all we care about is a healthy baby in the end of all this to hold in our arms and love forever and raise.


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## Deb111

Don't think I explained it very well - I think I lost my train of thought :dohh: After what we've been through, I'm perfectly happy to find out - my one concern is keeping it secret

I like the creams and browns schemes at the moment - nice and light and airy


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## deafgal01

Deb- you can blame it on baby brain. :haha: As for me, I can blame work for making me exhausted that I misunderstand things. :shrug:

Brown and cream- good color scheme. :yipee: Hopefully your man can "keep" the gender a surprise/secret from everyone until baby is born. :-= Has he ever been able to keep a secret in his entire life? If he is, then maybe he has the ability to keep it secret with you. :shrug:


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## raelynn

I'm with you Deb. I always wanted it to be a surprise too but hubby has talked me into finding out ahead of time once the time comes. And, like you said, whatever future baby may be, I'll be delighted just to have it.


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## MJ73

Hi Girls! :flower:

How is everybody going? 

Sorry I haven't been on for a few days. Life has just been super hectic! Anyway, so we had the appt with our FS on wednesday & we don't really know anymore than we did before the appt regarding the lesion on Simon's testicle. Derek (our FS) said that he doesn't _think_ it's cancer (that is such a scary word!) because in his opinion it doesn't have enough increased vasularity (blood supply) to the area. He then said, however that this is not his area of expertise & that it would be remiss of him not to investigate further. So, we have an appt with a urologist colleague of his who specialises in cancer & Simon had to have another blood test to check his tumor markers. Our appt is on the 17th of April, so not too long to wait. 

From a fertility perspective the latest bloods show that Simon's testosterone is low & his eostrogen is slightly elevated. SO, Derek has put him on Tamoxifen, which is actually a drug that they give women with breast cancer, it is an eostrogen blocker. So, it should naturally push up his testosterone & push down his eostrogen which apparently could help with our sertolli cell problem. It could help the little spermies grow further along the growth cycle to be more mature. Go team sperm! Grow little guys grow. So, we need to postpone our cycle by a month or two to give this drug a chance to work.

Anyone's hubby's been on Tamoxifen. Just wondering if we should expect any side effects? And, did the drug work for you in terms of sperm found on TESE?

Thinking of everyone:hugs:. Those who are waiting waiting, those who are choosing, those who are grieving & sad & those who's dreams have come true; thinking of you too. Am just so thankful for this group :hugs:


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## Pink Lolly

Hi mj - I can't help but i think the lovely deb may be able to xxx


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## Deb111

MJ - mt hubby's testosterone was very low, but his estrogen was fine. His urologist put him on tamoxifen for 3 months before the mTESE. It was fab!! He didn't get his sex drive back but within about 3 days he was a different man! More positive, more motivated, happier, so much more energy etc :thumbup:

Strangely though, they actually pushed his estogen level UP so the urologist changed him to anastrazole, which weren't as great for him in terms of the energy and motivation, but obviously did the trick. It might be worth getting a blood test done ion a couple of weeks to check those 2 levels if you can?

Lots of luck and glad he doesn't seem too concerned about the lesions xx


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## snd80

Hey girls! Hope everyone is doing well this weekend...

I am having a crap day today... my boss isn't doing so hot and things aren't looking too good for him. :nope: Then that damn clomid has messed up my cycle and so far on CD15, no ov yet! I'm like, I did better on my own! I always ov'd on CD13-15 w/out it, and now this! Ahhhhhh!!! And on top of all this, we both have been sick with the crud since Tues, so I haven't been to the gym since Weds... nothing seems to be going right this week!!!! I just feel like crying! :cry: Then to start off next week, hubby has to go to the hospital Mon. morning to have his fistula (dialysis shunt) checked. They think it has clogged, and if so, they will have to cut it open, clean it out, and send him back into dialysis to run afterwards! Why, oh why, does everything seem to crash all at once! I was sitting here thinking, I wish I could just go and hide from the world and all it's crap for a while!

Sorry for being Debbie Downer today, it's just a very hormonal-emotional day so far! Thanks for listening! :hugs: to each of you if you have made it this far!


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## deafgal01

Snd- tell me about it... I'm feeling the same- for different reasons. I'm sick of seeing that one young girl on fb post about her pregnancy- she's only like 20 and she's pregnant already- about 9 weeks along, not even married. :grr: Then there's another lady on there that's nice- from my school days and she's got a beautiful boy baby and I feel envious of the first time mother joys she's getting to experience. :brat: I'll send extra prayers and happy thoughts in your direction today :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :flower: I think we both could use a real hug in real life.


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## Deb111

Sending you both hugs girls - sorry you're having a crap day xx :hugs:


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## Pink Lolly

Deb111 said:


> Sending you both hugs girls - sorry you're having a crap day xx :hugs:

And :hug: from me too xx


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## MJ73

:friends: Sending loads of warm hugs to Snd & DG too. Sometimes it seems that the crappy days outnumber the lovely days with this IF business. Snd, hope hubby is ok:flower:


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## deafgal01

Here's something to chuckle at...

I told my DH about it today and he was like, "you shouldn't be jealous of these high school girls... Do you want to be pregnant and in high school?" I told him, "well, no that's not the reason I'm jealous of them, I'm jealous they get to be pregnant and we don't" :rofl: But the idea of him thinking that I was jealous of them being pregnant in high school was funny.


----------



## cosita

Hi Girls, I know there are some good days and a lot of bad days. But it's so important to try and be positive and try to see the big picture. Throughout our lives I am positive that this will be something major but also something that makes us stronger and will always make us appreciate our children just that little bit more than others who didn't have to fight for it. 
I emigrated 10 years ago and I appreciate my family and they appreciate me more than anyone I know. It's so important not to take things for granted...as we all now well know. I am not religious at all so I don't believe this is God's way of teaching me something but I do think that it is making me a better person in many ways. It has also taught me that just because society does one thing (reproduce) doesn't mean that everyone has to do it the same way and that the important thing is to have family and share a loving life with your children and teach them all your values. Your children may be from a donor or may be adopted. It doesn't mean they aren't your children. It's hard having to be the strong ones to teach people or put up with people who don't have open minds, these are usually the people who haven't had to struggle with the things you have to and are not sensitive to others. I feel sorry for these people. Sorry for the rant girls. Have a good Sunday!


----------



## deafgal01

Cosita- beautiful said. It is hard to have to be the stronger ones to struggle with this but you're right- in the end it's all about having our own little ones to raise and appreciating them all the more for the hardship we had to go thru to get to this point. :hugs: Thank you.


----------



## snd80

Well said Cost! Thank you for that! :thumbup:

Hope everyone had a great weekend. Mine turned out _ok_ after my little breakdown. Yesterday hubby and I came to my workplace to look through profiles of donors and in the middle their site went down. Go figure! But at least he got to see the ones I had saved in my favorites! So one step closer... finally ov'd yesterday on CD16, called Jackson this morning and the nurse said that was perfect, that the clomid makes ov a few days later than normal, but CD16 ov on the clomid was perfect! =) So progesterone test is set for MOnday 4/9! Hubby is at the hospital as we "speak". They are gonna have to cut his arm open and blow up his fistula to unclog it.. can't be w/ him cause I am running the store. Ahhhh! Mondays!

Hope everyone is well and has a great day! :hugs:


----------



## SunUp

Hey all!
DH and I had a rough patch the past few days - but the good news is we meet with the Dr TOMORROW to actually, for real, plan out our treatment. Its been a long wait but I hope to have some good news tomorrow, and hopefully can get on and post soon!


----------



## nightdaze

Hi all. Cosita, thank you for those lovely words - they were just what I needed to hear today.

Monday just isn't very fun is it. This day really seems to be dragging on and on and on.

We finally got the referral appointment for the Urologist - it isn't until NOVEMBER!! Can you believe that. 8 month wait for our first appointment to start trying to figure this whole mess out?! I am going to call that office every week to try to get a cancellation. Hopefully they will get sick of me calling and just move us up.

We are going to have a phone appointment with Dr.Turek on Thursday to see what he has to say. Hopefully he will give us some good information and let us know what we can do in the meantime...

Hope you have a lovely day. xo


----------



## Pink Lolly

Gosh nightdaze that is a long wait - I would definitely push for a cancelation :thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

November seems crazy!!!! :hugs: Glad you've got a phone appt with Dr Turek - I'm sure he will give you some good info / advice. I know it sounds obvious, but make sure you've got all dh's blood test results in front of you xx


----------



## KB38

Hi everyone, I haven't had a chance to catch up on everyone's posts but I really need a shoulder to cry on. About two weeks ago today, I woke up with a stiff back. I took an anti-inflammatory and went to work. As the day progressed, the pain got worse and worse until I couldn't move my leg. I was in the worst pain I have ever experienced (I've never had a back problem though). I put it down to all of our FS appointments the week before and stress with that, work and life in general. By the time I got home from work, I was in total agony so DH took me to the hospital. They told me that it was a strain and gave me some stronger meds and sent me home. The next day, for the first time in I don't know how long, I stayed home from work. I was in so much pain I called DH home because I was frightened to be alone. The following day he took me to a different hospital and they admitted me straight away with suspected disci tis which is an infection in my L5 disc. I lost urinary function the day I was admitted (it has returned to normal now, just from the excruciating pain) and spent 6 nights in hospital. The only thing keeping me going was that I knew that when I got home, we could start with our donor sperm. Suffice to say, I was devastated when the urologist and neurosurgeon told me that I might now need a spinal fusion and, best case scenario, it will be a year before I can safely try for a baby. I feel gutted. I am young and relatively healthy and have had no other health problems. Now, for some unknown reason, an infection has got into my system (it could have been from a cut on my hand), wound up in my back and ruined everything. I am off work for another 3 weeks before I see the neurosurgeon again. Assuming I don't need surgery, I might be able to start work part time. I am having such a hard time on that front too. I just don't understand why this is happening! I have been in tears for days. It seems so cruel that we finally work out how to proceed, tick all the stupid boxes and then this happens. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to get myself back together? I feel like it is somehow my fault, like if I'd looked after myself better since DH's diagnosis, it might not have happened.


----------



## deafgal01

Oh KB! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: First of all, it might have happened regardless of whether or not of having taken care of yourself. There are some things that are not within our control. I think this is one of them perhaps. It sucks to hear you have to wait a long time, do they really say you have to wait that long? What's the reason for making you wait a year? :flower:


----------



## raelynn

Nightdaze, can you get a referral from another doctor? Our RE told us that if we tried to book an appointment with the urologist by ourselves they would book it in 6 months but with his referral they booked us in 3 weeks. If he hadn't told us that ahead of time we never would have known the difference a referral could make.


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi KB, ah love, I am so sorry, what a horribly tough time you are having. I am sorry that I cannot offer you much comfort, but you must keep your chin up, at least you have the next few months to get yourself really healthy, and just imagine if you had finally gotten pregnant then this happened in the early months, things would be a lot worse. At least you have time to get well, get your body in tip top condition, then hopefuly you will get lucky on the first go with your donor.

Try to plan some nice things to look forward to like a holiday or break away, a girly weekend away or something, thats what we did when we first found out about not being able to have a baby ourselves.

Thinking of you x


----------



## Deb111

KB - I'm so sorry - life really does seem to thrown everything at you when you feel you can't take much more :hugs: Hopefully things wont need to be delayed that long, but you need to take good care of yourself and get this sorted before you become pregnant as LO needs you in good health.  I wish there was something I could say to make it better, but please know I am thinking of you xx


----------



## nightdaze

Thanks Deb and Raelynn.

The appointment in November is actually the referral appointment from our GP. I called the office and asked about getting on a cancellation list. The receptionist said if there are any cancellations they go to the cancer patients. I said 'oh, that's a good idea' and she said (in kind of a mean tone) 'so I'm sorry I can't help you but at least your husband doesn't have cancer'. Kind of rude to say something like that but fair enough. Can't blame me for trying though.

So we will just wait and hopefully other good things will happen in our lives while we carry on.

KB - sorry to hear about your complications. It sounds like you were in an awful lot of pain. I hope that your recovery goes well - make sure you take as much time as you need to get better and get healthy.

xo


----------



## Deb111

nightdaze said:


> The receptionist said if there are any cancellations they go to the cancer patients. I said 'oh, that's a good idea' and she said (in kind of a mean tone) 'so I'm sorry I can't help you but at least your husband doesn't have cancer'. Kind of rude to say something like that but fair enough. Can't blame me for trying though.
> 
> xo

Understandable to point out, but unnecessary attitude by the sounds of it xx


----------



## wibble wobble

Just sending everyone a great big squishy (((((hug)))))) today because it sounds like everyone is in need of it xxxx


----------



## MJ73

Thanks Wibble; all hugs received with much joy! :hugs: Hugs back to you hun.

Nightdaze, so sorry that you have to wait till November & that the receptionist gave you attitude. I've decided, after this whole experience that _some_ Medical Receptionists are on a major power trip:dohh:

KB, I am so sorry that you've been through such a horrid time. Just know that we are here for you if you need us:hugs: That must be so upsetting thinking about waiting a year before fertility treatments, but if your body is telling you to slow down then you must take care of you first.

As for us, well we feel like we have had a little bit of a win today. Simon's results for his tumour markers came back normal. Now, according to my boss (who is also a friend), who is a hemotologist it would be very unlikely to have a testicular cancer & have those results come back normal. So, I think we can let go & breath a sigh of relief. Simon is over the moon. I am feeling a little more reserved about it until we see the Urologist on the 17th. The fact remains that there is a mass on his (only) testicle & that makes me very nervous, but I'm putting on a brave face for him.

BTW, Deb, I made a mistake:dohh:, Simon is not on Tamoxifen, he is on Armidex, which hopefully will push his testosterone up & his eostrogen down, phew! Did Terry have any side effects? Simon's been having a bit of nausea.


----------



## MrsC8776

Hi ladies! :hi: I have been stalking here for quite some time and I have finally decided to make my first post in here. Thank you MJ, Pink Lolly, and Deb for inviting me to join. 

We are having to move to IVF/ICSI/TESE because DH had a vasectomy before we were married. He got it reversed and things were good for a little while. Sadly it healed back and now we have nothing to work with. I know some of you are in different situations but I just thought it would be nice to talk with some ladies who are in similar situations. We are looking at IVF in July/August. DH has his urology appointment on the 26th when he gets back from Afghanistan. 

Other than that I don't really have much else going on. Just waiting for the next AF and I will start getting all my blood work done. So now just waiting... :coffee:


----------



## MJ73

Welcome Mrs C:flower:, lovely to have you here. If you have any questions about TESE or zero sperm, this is the place to ask them :thumbup: Not long now till hubby gets back & you can start all the tests. As for the waiting:coffee:, we seem to get pretty good at waiting when we're dealing with male factor IF, don't ya think?


----------



## snd80

Massive :hugs: to KB, night and everyone else on here that needs one! It is downright horrible when some medical personell are so insensitive to people in our situations, as if we don't already have enough on our plates without adding insult to injury!!! Please! :nope: Want me to come do some recon for you girls?! :ninja: I need a good fight! LOL!

And welcome to MrsC! We are all here to bitch and moan to while in this horrid "waiting game"... Hey! That should be a new movie... "The Waiting Games" starring all the BNB Azoo girls! :rofl:

Hope everyone has a great day! :flower:


----------



## Deb111

Welcome MrsC - glad you decided to stop by :flower: The waiting is horrible, but to have to fir appts round when your dh is home too must make life extra awkward

MJ - that's great that it's arimadex as they were definitely better in terms the estrogen for terry. He did have some nausea first thing in the morning, but he wasn't sure whether he put that down to his thyroid meds or the tamoxifen / arimadex :shrug:


----------



## silverbell

cosita said:


> Hi girls,
> well we just got back from my husbands biopsy and it looks like good news!! My DH was completely on a high after being sedated but he said the doc clearly said they found sperm. Later I asked the nurse (didn't see doc) and he said it was true. Of course we have no idea how much or in what state it is in and we won't know for another two weeks. Arrrggghhh! I don't want to get my hopes up, but its a hell of a lot better than not finding anything right!!
> Any of you who have been through this, what is it they do with the sperm now? What are they looking for?
> DH feels fine, said it was the best sleep in the world!

Cosita, I'm keeping everything crossed that the sperm found is good and plentiful :hugs: I know when we saw Mr R he said any sperm or tubules found would be sent off for thorough examination and investigation where they look at each stage of sperm growth to determine where it's going wrong and if the sperm are viable etc. I can't remember any more than that I'm afraid. We waited 13 days for our results and it was the worst wait out of everything. I really hope you get some fab news soon.



snd80 said:


> Thanks girls! I hope it was just the "first-look" jitters!
> 
> Step Mommy- Thanks for your advice... It's not that I am not ready to move on to this, but more that I had this idea implanted in my brain that I was gonna find another Marty out there! Another bad thing is he is thinking the same thing as I am, that we will find his "twin". I have chosen a few and saved them for him to look over this weekend so once I get him involved, I'm sure these feelings will go away!

snd - I'm so sorry the choosing has been so tough. We had a list of 7 donors to choose from and we only knew the main things such as height, hair colour, build and eye colour. It made it much easier than I imagine it must be if we had more info! Don't forget that there are millions of kids out there that look absolutely nothing like their parents or that look more like one than the other. Or sometimes they look more like relations than they do their own parents. It doesn't always mean anything and I agree with cosita's partner - you will still see your husband in your child because of the way they have been brought up.



cosita said:


> Hi Girls, I know there are some good days and a lot of bad days. But it's so important to try and be positive and try to see the big picture. Throughout our lives I am positive that this will be something major but also something that makes us stronger and will always make us appreciate our children just that little bit more than others who didn't have to fight for it.
> I emigrated 10 years ago and I appreciate my family and they appreciate me more than anyone I know. It's so important not to take things for granted...as we all now well know. I am not religious at all so I don't believe this is God's way of teaching me something but I do think that it is making me a better person in many ways. It has also taught me that just because society does one thing (reproduce) doesn't mean that everyone has to do it the same way and that the important thing is to have family and share a loving life with your children and teach them all your values. Your children may be from a donor or may be adopted. It doesn't mean they aren't your children. It's hard having to be the strong ones to teach people or put up with people who don't have open minds, these are usually the people who haven't had to struggle with the things you have to and are not sensitive to others. I feel sorry for these people. Sorry for the rant girls. Have a good Sunday!

I couldn't agree more with this Cosita. Great post and so true :thumbup:



nightdaze said:


> We finally got the referral appointment for the Urologist - it isn't until NOVEMBER!! Can you believe that. 8 month wait for our first appointment to start trying to figure this whole mess out?! I am going to call that office every week to try to get a cancellation. Hopefully they will get sick of me calling and just move us up.
> 
> We are going to have a phone appointment with Dr.Turek on Thursday to see what he has to say. Hopefully he will give us some good information and let us know what we can do in the meantime...

OMG nightdaze ... that seems a ridiculously long time to wait! I know it's not always possible, but is there any way you can get that initial appointment privately so as to try to speed things up? It might be worth looking in to. 



KB38 said:


> ... Now, for some unknown reason, an infection has got into my system (it could have been from a cut on my hand), wound up in my back and ruined everything. I am off work for another 3 weeks before I see the neurosurgeon again. Assuming I don't need surgery, I might be able to start work part time. I am having such a hard time on that front too. I just don't understand why this is happening! I have been in tears for days. It seems so cruel that we finally work out how to proceed, tick all the stupid boxes and then this happens. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to get myself back together? I feel like it is somehow my fault, like if I'd looked after myself better since DH's diagnosis, it might not have happened.

Aw, KB, I'm so sorry! What a complete and utter nightmare and how shocking that this all happened just when things were being sorted fertility-wise. I really don't know what to say other than that I really hope you're feeling better very soon (it sounds horrendous, you poor thing) and that it most definitely is NOT your fault. I feel confident in saying that all of us have probably not looked after ourselves very well since our DH's diagnosis. Please don't blame yourself - it sounds like a fluke thing to happen and it's just sod's law that it's happened at the exact time you didn't need it to. Thinking of you and hoping and wishing for a speedy recovery :hugs:



MJ73 said:


> As for us, well we feel like we have had a little bit of a win today. Simon's results for his tumour markers came back normal. Now, according to my boss (who is also a friend), who is a hemotologist it would be very unlikely to have a testicular cancer & have those results come back normal. So, I think we can let go & breath a sigh of relief. Simon is over the moon. I am feeling a little more reserved about it until we see the Urologist on the 17th. The fact remains that there is a mass on his (only) testicle & that makes me very nervous, but I'm putting on a brave face for him.

Wonderful news, MJ! It sounds very promising and I hope the 17th brings wonderful, reassuring news for you both at last.



MrsC8776 said:


> Hi ladies! :hi: I have been stalking here for quite some time and I have finally decided to make my first post in here. Thank you MJ, Pink Lolly, and Deb for inviting me to join.

Welcome, MrsC! Hope you find this thread useful. It's good to be with others in the same position.



As for me - had my first DIUI yesterday :dance: It was painful, but all went well and I'm now in that dreaded 2ww. Keeping everything crossed that AF stays away.


----------



## deafgal01

SB- :dust: Hope you get a bfp at end of your tww.

Welcome MrsC. :hugs:

:hi: How's everyone doing today?


----------



## snd80

Thanks SB and I am praying really hard for your BFP this first try!!!! :happydance: I was reading your journal and seen you talking about seeing the :spermy: swimming on the screen! Fascinating! I hope they will do the same with me so I can see as well!!!! That would be sooo awesome!!!!! OMG, I am getting so excited now!!!!

I got hubby up here over this past weekend and we began to look through my saved "favorites"... and in the middle of looking their site went down. But hubby was not impressed with my findings! He told me I needed to look harder at cheek bones, jaw lines and foreheads! I was like you are too fat for me to even know what your _real_ jaw line looks like! :rofl: But IDK... I found 2 I really liked as far as hair, eyes and skin tone (hubby is Native American Cherokee w/ olive tone skin) but he thinks I am looking for someone I'd like "to date".... really?! :nope: And too, me being CMV-, my choices are really limited!!! So we are going to have another look again this weekend. I am trying really hard to get this done cause I have my annual pap the end of this month and was gonna have the U/S done, and if my good side is producing, I will go ahead w/ the first try. :shrug: I only wish no I didn't have so much info like you said! I even thought about looking at ones closest to me, but I really want some of "him" in the baby, ya know? Just pray for some piece of mind for us this weekend! I sure need it with him!

Hope everyone else is having a great day! :flower:


----------



## nightdaze

Silverbell - I am going to keep everything crossed for you and send you lots of good vibes!
MJ - that is such great news!!
SND - I hope you and hubby can find 'the one' together!
Mrs.C - Welcome!

We just had a phone appointment with Dr.Turek - my goodness that man is amazing. So kind and so easy to talk to. He couldn't believe that we had to wait so long to see a Urologist here in Canada. I wish there was a private option for us but nope- just waiting. So...I know there is still a lot of discussing to do with my husband but I think that we are going to take a road trip down to San Fran for an appointment with Dr.T for a the mapping. At least by the end of that all we will know where we stand. We will be a few steps ahead of the game by the time our appointment comes around in November and if we have already had the mapping done by Dr.Turek (and sperm is found) then all we would need to do is start prepping for ICSI/IVF and the sperm retrieval. I'm trying to stay positive and Dr.Turek said that with him we have a 69% chance of finding sperm. Now to just save some money! A summer road trip down the coast would be lovely!

I'm really trying to stay positive but this whole waiting game has its ups and downs. Good day, bad day, ok day, terrible day. They just cycle on random rotation. 

Happy Easter lovely ladies. xo


----------



## Deb111

nightdaze said:


> We just had a phone appointment with Dr.Turek - my goodness that man is amazing. So kind and so easy to talk to. He couldn't believe that we had to wait so long to see a Urologist here in Canada. I wish there was a private option for us but nope- just waiting. So...I know there is still a lot of discussing to do with my husband but I think that we are going to take a road trip down to San Fran for an appointment with Dr.T for a the mapping. At least by the end of that all we will know where we stand. We will be a few steps ahead of the game by the time our appointment comes around in November and if we have already had the mapping done by Dr.Turek (and sperm is found) then all we would need to do is start prepping for ICSI/IVF and the sperm retrieval. I'm trying to stay positive and Dr.Turek said that with him we have a 69% chance of finding sperm. Now to just save some money! A summer road trip down the coast would be lovely!
> 
> I'm really trying to stay positive but this whole waiting game has its ups and downs. *Good day, bad day, ok day, terrible day.* They just cycle on random rotation.
> 
> Happy Easter lovely ladies. xo

So glad the phone appt went well. We certainly found him very interesting and informative to talk to. :thumbup:

It sounds like today has been one of the good days xx


----------



## Stinas

Hello Ladies!!!
It was nice to read most of your stories today...made me feel much better.

I will be 28 this month, DH is 33. We have been TTC for over a year now. I have always had irregular periods, so I knew TTC would take longer than "normal"....after we hit the year mark I decided it was time to see whats going on. All bloodwork came back fine, had an HSG done in Feb, all clear....so thats when DH did his SA. I was hoping and praying it was me, but today I got the news...no sperm. He has never had any problems or surgery down there, so I am hoping its just a blockage, but already preparing for the worst. OB said IVF will most likely be our only way to TTC. Im still trying to wrap my head around everything. Its nice to come on here and read the success stories. I never thought I would be here, but here I am. As DH said, there are worse things in life that people go through, this is just a little bump in the road. Very true, but its just hard. I know we have a long road ahead of us, but knowing I have the support of my loving bnb friends, i Know we will be ok. 
Thank you for starting this thread!


----------



## Sar187

It has been a long time since I have been on here again, but I read through everything and it sounds like everyone is making some progress. 

Welcome to all the new ladies on here, while this is not the place you want to end up, it is one of the best and most supportive groups I have found. 

I would love to do personals but there has been so much since the last time I was on here that its just not possible. 

Things have been going well for me, we had an appointment last Friday and the baby's heartrate was around 150bpm and my uterus was measuring well. I am right on track for my weight gain having gained 3-4lbs since I got pregnant. Yesterday for the first time I started feeling movement from the Baby and have been feeling it off and on today as well. I did have a bit of a scare for the first time today and had a little bit of spotting but it didn't last long and the nurse I talked to said it was nothing to worry about. We have our 20 week ultrasound next Wednesday(I will be 19weeks 5days). We don't want to find out the sex so it will just be them checking to make sure everything is developing as its supposed to. Things are starting to feel very real now, which is scary and exciting at the same time. 

Sending (((HUGS))) to everyone and hoping things are going well!


----------



## Deb111

Welcome Stinas - I'm sorry you've had to join us, but you have found a wonderfully supportive group of girls :flower:

Sar - lovely to hear from you and glad all is well. I'm sure it must all feel more real now you've felt LO moving - how exciting!!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi girls, I have been on a break and am feeling better. I will edit with personals after I get this posted.

A bit of an update. We're still waiting for the karyotype test to come back (still) before they will book the urologist. It's driving me crazy. We have been almost so calm, we were detached from the whole process. I went from obsessively googling and thinking to nothing. Dead stop. When I found out he was negative for Klinfelters and he had no microdeletion on the Y, but his testosterone was so low (4.2, 121 in American units), it made me feel hopeful that it was fixable. But, DH is almost 44 and he really don't want to have to wait another 6 months to even see if they can get his testosterone up to even find sperm. I have no idea if they would even try that route. I have no urology background and my constant guessing drives me nuts! If only we had someone sit down and talk to us months ago instead of making us guess via Dr. Google. I can honestly say that I gave up on the thought of having a baby and even got rid of my 4 year old's baby stuff recently. (Son from a deadbeat dad, not DH's obviously. Don't get me started on deadbeats having kids easily and not appreciating them.)

So, we see the IF psychologist on the 18th. I finally made the appointment and DH is really looking forward to it too. He could have seen us before that but work was too hectic. Now that we are going to see him, DH is starting to think more about donor sperm so he can talk to him about that. His parents (and him) are Catholic and once he spoke to them and had their 100% blessing to go ahead with donor sperm, he suddenly seems much more open about it. We are both struggling with who we would tell and what we would tell the kid. Does anyone know if they do Open ID in Canada? I have to admit that the cost, the timeline, the increased chances, is making it seem more attactive to me. I was 29 when I had my son, but got pregnant easily and I want to see if there is an easy route somewhere in this process. But, part of me feels like I am giving up too early. We just need to know what the urologist thinks and if they will even want to do TESE with his testosterone so low. One of his testicles is so atrophied, it feels like a smushed grape. The other one is small but feels normal.

One big question, does anyone know the price difference between doing diui (non-medicated or medicated plus cost of sperm) and IVF/ICSI/TESE? Is it really that much cheaper?

I need to know more about the procedures so that if/when they discuss it with us, we will have good questions for them.


----------



## Deb111

I'm glad your dh is more open to donor sperm now. My dh's very catholic aunt was so appalled by the suggestion of it (she is like a mum to him after his own mum died) and totally put him off even considering it. It is nice for you to know that option is at least there.

In terms of the testosterone, if you were to go that route, he would only have to be on meds for 3 months, not 6.

In terms of cost, not much help as I'm in the UK, but our ICSI side of things was £7500 and hubby's mTESE was £3500, but I know you can get ICSI in the Uk for about £4500 - £5000. Don't know about IUI / DIUI sorry xx


----------



## CanadianMaple

Thanks for your fast reply. I didn't realize it could only be 3 months. But then again, who knows if they even will treat him with clomid or something along those lines. I hate to guess anything at this point.

Here are my personals. Glad to catch up again.

nightdaze- I hear ya on the long wait for the urologist here. They won't even let us talk to one to help us with the whatifs. DH's family doctor refered him in Dec to a non-fertility urologist too so we could talk to someone and we still haven't even gotten an appointment. The waiting game is killing me.

Snd80- DH and I have been looking at profiles, but we haven't paid $250 to see pictures at this stage. We settled on one on paper, but I worry the seeing pictures will throw us off. It's hard. Our clinic only wants us to choose -cvm donors, according to their website anyway.

silverbell- Good luck on your 2ww! How exciting!

Welcome MrsC!

Stinas- Welcome to the group. I found that when we got the dx, we went into a tailspin for the first 2-3 months. But, the girls in this group helped me immensly. This is a very knowledgable group and there is nothing better than having a group of people who really understand what you are going through.


----------



## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Thanks SB and I am praying really hard for your BFP this first try!!!! :happydance: I was reading your journal and seen you talking about seeing the :spermy: swimming on the screen! Fascinating! I hope they will do the same with me so I can see as well!!!! That would be sooo awesome!!!!! OMG, I am getting so excited now!!!!
> 
> I got hubby up here over this past weekend and we began to look through my saved "favorites"... and in the middle of looking their site went down. But hubby was not impressed with my findings! He told me I needed to look harder at cheek bones, jaw lines and foreheads! I was like you are too fat for me to even know what your _real_ jaw line looks like! :rofl: But IDK... I found 2 I really liked as far as hair, eyes and skin tone (hubby is Native American Cherokee w/ olive tone skin) but he thinks I am looking for someone I'd like "to date".... really?! :nope: And too, me being CMV-, my choices are really limited!!! So we are going to have another look again this weekend. I am trying really hard to get this done cause I have my annual pap the end of this month and was gonna have the U/S done, and if my good side is producing, I will go ahead w/ the first try. :shrug: I only wish no I didn't have so much info like you said! I even thought about looking at ones closest to me, but I really want some of "him" in the baby, ya know? Just pray for some piece of mind for us this weekend! I sure need it with him!

Good luck this weekend! It sounds so difficult. It sounds like your hubby is probably looking at too much detail. Honestly - how many of us have the same forehead and jaw line as our parents? These things are rarely noticeable, even if they are similar. You'd have to really sit down and compare to see the similarity, I'd bet.

It wasn't so much the :spermy: on the screen that I could see - she said it was the white lines that had become visible which were the sperm going down the tubes. I have been thinking about it since though and I do wonder if it was also part of the 'wash' that they put the sperm in for IUI. Either way, I guess the sperm were in the wash ... it was very surreal! I had no idea they travelled that quickly to be honest.





nightdaze said:


> I'm really trying to stay positive but this whole waiting game has its ups and downs. Good day, bad day, ok day, terrible day. They just cycle on random rotation.
> 
> Happy Easter lovely ladies. xo

I'm so pleased the phone consultation went so well. It always makes such a difference to talk to somebody who is an expert in all of this, after meeting so many who haven't got a clue. A road trip sounds fantastic and will certainly fill the gap before November. At least you will be doing some proactive during that time as well, which is fantastic. I found anything I could do to speed up the process made the whole thing more bearable.

Yep, the good days, bad days, OK days and terrible days sound oh-so-familiar. :hugs:



Stinas said:


> Hello Ladies!!!
> It was nice to read most of your stories today...made me feel much better.
> 
> I will be 28 this month, DH is 33. We have been TTC for over a year now. I have always had irregular periods, so I knew TTC would take longer than "normal"....after we hit the year mark I decided it was time to see whats going on. All bloodwork came back fine, had an HSG done in Feb, all clear....so thats when DH did his SA. I was hoping and praying it was me, but today I got the news...no sperm. He has never had any problems or surgery down there, so I am hoping its just a blockage, but already preparing for the worst. OB said IVF will most likely be our only way to TTC. Im still trying to wrap my head around everything. Its nice to come on here and read the success stories. I never thought I would be here, but here I am. As DH said, there are worse things in life that people go through, this is just a little bump in the road. Very true, but its just hard. I know we have a long road ahead of us, but knowing I have the support of my loving bnb friends, i Know we will be ok.
> Thank you for starting this thread!

Hi Stinas and welcome! I'm so sorry about the zero sperm result. I must say your attitude is admirable. My DH and I fell apart when we had the news and cried for days. :blush: I am still not 'over' it now and I don't think either of us ever will be.

Enjoy the thread and its lovely people. 



Sar187 said:


> Things are starting to feel very real now, which is scary and exciting at the same time.
> 
> Sending (((HUGS))) to everyone and hoping things are going well!

Welcome back, Sar. I'm so pleased to hear all is going well and can't believe it's your 20-week scan next Wednesday already! Wow, that's gone quick. I do hope all goes very well.



CanadianMaple said:


> One big question, does anyone know the price difference between doing diui (non-medicated or medicated plus cost of sperm) and IVF/ICSI/TESE? Is it really that much cheaper?
> 
> I need to know more about the procedures so that if/when they discuss it with us, we will have good questions for them.

Hi Canadian. I'm glad the break seems to have done you some good. It can get a bit much on here when things hit rock bottom and you don't want to bring everybody else down - I've had to take breaks myself. I'm so pleased your DH has come around to the idea of donor sperm. Even if you guys go ahead with a biopsy at least you've got that as another route.

I know what you mean about the easier option. DH said to me the other day that even if he had got sperm, it would have meant sending it for PGD (preimplantation genetic diagnosis) in order to check that the sperm didn't have the extra X chromosome that DH has in his cells (apparently some would have had it and some wouldn't). This is a private thing I believe and would have taken some time. Then there's everything that comes with IVF and whether the embryos developed, whether the sperm thawed OK, whether my eggs thawed OK (as they'd have been frozen to send off for PGD) and it being more invasive ... Don't get me wrong, I wish I had DH's swimmers more than anything but we've fully embraced and accepted donor sperm and we can't wait to get that BFP now whenever it might happen. You just do what you have to do.

I'm sorry I don't know the difference in price in Canada. I hope somebody else can help. I would think if you called some local fertility clinics they could let you have a rough idea?


----------



## MrsC8776

CanadianMaple said:


> Hi girls, I have been on a break and am feeling better. I will edit with personals after I get this posted.
> 
> A bit of an update. We're still waiting for the karyotype test to come back (still) before they will book the urologist. It's driving me crazy. We have been almost so calm, we were detacted from the whole process. I went from obsessively googling and thinking to nothing. Dead stop. When I found out he was negative for Klinfelters and he had no microdeletion on the Y, but his testotestone was so low (4.2, 121 in American units), it made me feel hopeful that it was fixable. But, DH is almost 44 and he really don't want to have to wait another 6 months to even see if they can get his testosterone up to even find sperm. I have no idea if they would even try that route. I have no urology background and my constant guessing drives me nuts! If only we had someone sit down and talk to us months ago instead of making us guess via Dr. Google. I can honestly say that I gave up on the thought of having a baby and even got rid of my 4 year old's baby stuff recently. (Son from a deadbeat dad, not DH's obviously. Don't get me started on deadbeats having kids easily and not appreciating them.)
> 
> So, we see the IF psychologist on the 18th. I finally made the appointment and DH is really looking forward to it too. He could have seen us before that but work was too hectic. Now that we are going to see him, DH is starting to think more about donor sperm so he can talk to him about that. His parents (and him) are Catholic and once he spoke to them and had their 100% blessing to go ahead with donor sperm, he suddenly seems much more open about it. We are both struggling with who we would tell and what we would tell the kid. Does anyone know if they do Open ID in Canada? I have to admit that the cost, the timeline, the increased chances, is making it seem more attactive to me. I was 29 when I had my son, but got pregnant easily and I want to see if there is an easy route somewhere in this process. But, part of me feels like I am giving up too early. We just need to know what the urologist thinks and if they will even want to do TESE with his testosterone so low. One of his testicles is so atrophied, it feels like a smushed grape. The other one is small but feels normal.
> 
> One big question, does anyone know the price difference between doing diui (non-medicated or medicated plus cost of sperm) and IVF/ICSI/TESE? Is it really that much cheaper?
> 
> I need to know more about the procedures so that if/when they discuss it with us, we will have good questions for them.

I just wanted to say that I'm glad your DH is now thinking more about the donor route. I know that was causing a few issues when we last talked. I do have info on the price difference but it's not for in Canada. Unmedicated DIUI would cost us about $750.00-800.00 and IVF/ICSI/TESE would cost about $16,000. So there is a huge price difference. I don't know the cost of a medicated IUI cycle though. I hope that helps a little bit. 

Thanks for the welcome ladies! :flower:


----------



## Pink Lolly

Hello girls!

I just wanted to pop in and update those of you who haven't already heard my news....


On Wednesday this week we got our :bfp: on our second DIUI :cloud9:

For all of those using DIUI, I hope this gives you hope as I had always struggled to find many success stories! Stay positive - it will happen :cloud9:

:dust: :dust: :dust:


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## snd80

Welcome Stinas! Sorry you are here, but we are all here for you at anytime!!! :hugs:

Sarrrr!!!! Good to see you back! How exciting it must be to feel a real baby moving around in there and not just your wishful imagination! All you azoo girls with your bfp's are a great inspiration for those of us still in limbo-land!!! Just glad ya'll haven't abandoned us afterwards! :haha:

CM- Glad the break has done you good! And :thumbup: to your DH finally being open to the idea of donor! :happydance: I know that was a great relief to you! It certainly was for me!!! The cryo we are using is Canadian compliant. Might look into them... xytex.com. I thought you had to be tested for CMV status before choosing - or +? IDK! But I will tell you from experience that the choices are VERY limited for the - ones! So might check into that as well!

SB- I got you now... but still very cool either way! :thumbup: I think my hubby is over-thinking it too... he is so stubborn! But I think I have finally got him to realize that the basics of hair, complexion and eyes are the best route. I mean he has already told some of his friends we are going for donor, so it won't be a complete surprise to EVERYONE, ya know?

Still VERY excited for PL!!! :happydance:

:hugs: to those I missed and hope everyone has a great Easter Weekend! :bunny:


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## Stinas

Thank you all very much for all your support already. 
I tried going through all the pages of this thread last night, super long, but I got most of them down. 
I'm sure like all of you at the beginning hoped your journeys would not be as long either. I'm praying for a blockage. All of this just seems so crazy and I keep asking myself why. I know it's normal, but wtf why?! I have been ttc for so long now that some people around me are getting preg with their second child. It's all so frustrating. 
God bless dh for being a sport in front of me. I'm still in bed and I don't want to get out. 
Today he found another urologist that will see him on Tuesday and that takes our insurance. Can you ladies help me put together a list of questions to ask him? I would be beyond grateful. 
Dh said he does not want me to go with him, but I have a few days to convince him otherwise.


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## Deb111

Great news about the appt Stinas :thumbup:

Don't feel bad about not feeling like you're dealing with things very well at the moment. I think most of us were a complete mess for a good few days and then it took a long time. It's a shock and you are grieving too - don't be too hard on yourself. I know it can be hard as you don't want to make your dh feel bad about it being down to him, so if you need to vent, this is the place to do it.

As for questions, I'm sure the girls will give you some suggestions, but there's also a list of things to think about / ask in a spoiler on the front page of this thread that will give you some ideas.

I hope your dh lets you come to the appt - in my experience, its the women who ask the necessary questions and make notes for future reference and that's so important as this can be complex stuff to take in and you really do need to make copious notes at these appts.


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- I just found out on Dec 1 about DH and I really didn't start doing well about it all until March. It wasn't until some of the results started rolling in. I still struggle at times.

Some questions for the urologist:
1. Can hormones be checked right away?
2. Ask for genetic testing (karyotype, cystic fibrosis carrier, microdeletion on the Y chromosome and kleinfelters)
3. Find out if testicles are the right size and if it feels like the vas deferense is there.
4. They may do an ultrasound if they think it's a case of missing vas deferens or blockage. CF carries will sometimes be missing their vas.
5. They will ask your DH if he had undecended testicles, any hernias, surgeries, drinking, drugs or other medical issues.
6. I would guess they will do hormones first and ask how soon they will come back. If the hormones are okay, they may carry on to investigate a blockage. How soon will you find that out.
7. See if this doctor works with a fertility centre and if they will be able to do a TESE to find sperm or if they will refer you to someone else.

I would insist you go with your DH, even just to take notes. I know my husband never remembers half of what his doctor tells him.


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## Stinas

Thank you very much for the fast responses!!! 
I will make DH let me come! They told him on the phone that they will do a sonogram to see whats going on. Hopefully they do it on tuesday. He made the calls, so im not sure exactly what they said. DH likes to get things over with quickly, sometimes with out talking about it...so that part is going to be hard. Hes at the point right now where he "does not want to talk about it"....so the more I ask and push, the more mad he gets, so I am just going to smoothly talk about it, because I want to get this all sorted out asap. Sounds bad and rushy, but he seems to feel the same way...or at least he says so. 
Im really hoping its a blockage or something that we can have fixed....is that bad to hope for this? 
Do you ladies ever wonder why me? What did we do to deserve this? 
I rarely cry, but just thinking of everything brings the tears right up. 

What kind of road am I looking at here? 
Sorry for all the questions....its just I never heard of this before and Im just lost.


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## Deb111

Maybe if you explain to your dh that you've been doing some research (it's so much easier if you've got your head round some of the terminology etc so you can understand more at the appts and know more what you need to ask) and you'd like to go with him because there might be things that you want to ask and you don't want to waste the appt and have to make another one just to get the info.

It's not bad at all to hope that it's something that can be fixed, but often, even with blockages, they tend to do a surgical sperm retrieval operation as 'fixing' the problem is often not successful. However, if it was a blockage and sperm production was normal, the sperm retrieval would most likely be pretty easy and you'd probably be able to do IUI rather than IVF/ICSI.

I think I can speak for everyone when I say we've all experienced the "why me? what have I done to deserve this? how come people on drugs get pregnant and the baby suffers? how come people who abuse their kids can get pregnant at the drop of a hat?" and I really don't think there are any answers.

It might help you at some point to start a journal to get all your feelings down - it's also a useful place to record info from appts / research and sometimes just have a plain old rant!

Have you seen the video I put together in one of the spoilers on the first page of the thread? It might help to see some of the emotions and feelings that others have gone through so you don't feel like you're 'losing it' when you experience them.

As for what the road ahead is likely to be ... honestly ... a lot of waiting around in between appts, needing to do a lot of research yourself (the NHS told us that our only options were donor sperm or adoption and here I am 10 weeks pregnant with my husbands's child!), a lot of chasing people up for results / referrals / letters / appts. 

But you WILL get through it and I'm sure you WILL get your happy ending one way or other. There are a few of us who have been lucky enough to find sperm, a few who are pregnant or mums of donor sperm babies (all of who are absolutely adorable and their dh's accept them as their own - there has been a lot of discussion on this thread about it not all being down to genetics, but the upbringing, morals, personalities etc - there are some girls on here who have put it much more eloquently than me!)

Ask as much as you want - we all have very different stories and circumstances in this group and there's usually someone who can help you and has been there

Make sure you look after yourselves - it's really not an easy time xx


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## CanadianMaple

Finally! DH came right out and said it this afternoon. We will have a baby either way. His sperm or with a donor. OMG!! For the first time in months, I feel like there could be a baby at the end of all of this. For the longest time, it was going to be his sperm (feeling unlikely about finding any) or none. I cannot tell you how amazing it felt to hear those words. I would actually put it up there with when he proposed.

Stinas- I found that my husband was about 2-3 months behind me in processing the news. I would struggle and he would act like it was not a big deal. Or he would ask me a very basic question about the azoo and I would get mad at him because I had been talking about it, with him I thought, for weeks. 

I started a blog (in my signature) to vent a lot of my frustrations. I have a journal on a forum I have been a part of for years. I let myself cry, be angry or whatever, write about it and then I eventually process it.

Waiting for results and for answers/appointments is hard. We haven't been able to really speak to anyone yet. We found out in Dec and it will be May or June before someone sits down with us and lays out our options. The financial part is still a bit question mark too. I found it frustrating at times to see the process move so much faster and that was tough.

We are trying to find out if DH has sperm, why his testosterone is so incredibly low and he just told me today that he would proceed with donor sperm. Since Dec, he had been saying that if he couldn't use his sperm, if he had any, we would be happy with my son from a previous relationship. I think that was the hardest part of all, the choice felt like it was all taken from me.

Take care of yourself. It will be hard but it gets better too. Look at every appointment as a step forward. 

We're all here for you too.


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## Stinas

Thank you both for your wonderful encouragement. 
I will be looking at your videos, blogs and journals soon. I have a habit of ignoring the middle part of things and just skipping to the end result. I always want the happy ending but for some reason, I always get delt the shitty card and have to jump through hurdles in order to get it. 
I'm dreading all the waiting. I'm very fortunate that my BIL is willing to help us financially with what we can't afford ourselves. Hopefully this helps speed up the process somewhat. 
DH talked a bit more today...he still does not want me to go with him, but said ok for taking my list of questions. 
I might start a journal myself soon. I want to rant with out driving you all crazy lol.


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## raelynn

That is great news CM! So glad your hubby has gotten on board with using donor.


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## Deb111

Canadian - that's great news - to just know that you have options must be such a relief

Stinas - journals are great but NEVER feel bad about ranting here

Hope everyone else is doing ok xx


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## CanadianMaple

I just a quick question about DH's genetic testing. We're just waiting for the karyotype test now. What would they be looking for with that? I know it's all of his chromosomes, but what are they trying to find on it? Anything that really explains the azoospermia or just trying to rule out other common genetic issues?


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## SunUp

Hey everyone!
Looks like we are making progress! A few ladies pregnant, some successful tese's and good news from lots of you :o):thumbup:

As for me, they sent DH tese sample to John Hopkins to review! Crazy!?!
Anyway, the TESE was negtive, which they think was related to damage from a surgery he had as a child. They did think there was a good chance for mTESE. However, DH and I talked a LOT, and the risks (I wont go into detail - this is due to the previous surgery as a kid) for mTESE are just not something we want to deal with. Plus, we would have to have donor backup, in case the sperm weren't of good quality. So after much discussion, we CHOSE to do DIUI.

We found our donor, we think. He is CMV+ and I am CMV-, :shrug: but after a lot more research I am ok with this...its a personal decision and my mind is made up. I know not all of you would agree with this decision but I am comfortable with it.

But from everything we see, it is just too much of a perfect match to my DH.

If my next cycle doesnt start by the end of the month, I will start provera - then clomid - and IUI following :)

DH and I are soooo excited. We know it might not work right away, but the thought of us having our baby - actually being able to feel like its happening - is exciting :happydance:


Only thing left to do is meet with the social worker before IUI- DH hates this idea but its mandatory. He thinks its our kid -we don't need someone else giving us suggestions/ telling us what to do. :dohh: I told him I think we will be more meeting with her to hash out some possible questions and find out how other couples do in this circumstance.

I just can't wait - next month will be our first time, of 'trying' and having a decent chance :) - and DH is just as happy!


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## snd80

Sun- I would check into the CMV status. I am - and they told me if we used a + one, it risked the baby being born handicap... but YAY for progress!!!!!! I know it is sooo exciting knowing there is finally a "real" chance in the works! I feel the same!!! HUGS!


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## BumpHopes

Hi Deb, THNAK YOU so much for posting about this and making your journal. OH had this on his last SA and just in the proccess of getting another one done... I've only just stumbled on your journal so gunna take the time to read through it. Hope you dont mind.:flower:

I posted a thread on success stories thread but got no replies. Would you mind if i put the link to your journal on my question i asked for others? If not i understand. :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Sunup - great news that you're making progress and are both happy and comfortable with the decision you've made. Out of interest what are the risks of the cmv - / + thing if you don't mind me asking? I don't know anything about it :shrug: As for the social worker thing, in the UK, you have to meet with a counsellor - I would imagine it's more that sort of thing - just talking through implications, who to tell, how and if to tell the child etc xx

Bumphopes - welcome :flower: I'm glad you've found us - I'm so glad I started this thread - it has been a continuous source of support for me and others - although there is obviously a sense of sadness when we see a new member going through this :nope: This is a fab group of women who totally understand what you are going through and have probably experienced every emotion you are, and will go through on this journey - so feel free to rant away :thumbup:

Of course I don't mind you posting a link in your other thread - the more azoo wives and partners going through this to find support and info, the better xx


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## BumpHopes

Thank you! We have only just found out and as much as im hoping the 1st SA was a one off.. 3yrs down the line. Thats the reason! It does feel so unfair on times IYKWIM. Its just random people get PG so easy and then theres me (and others in the same situ) gotta struggle...

ok deep breath rant over lol.


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I just a quick question about DH's genetic testing. We're just waiting for the karyotype test now. What would they be looking for with that? I know it's all of his chromosomes, but what are they trying to find on it? Anything that really explains the azoospermia or just trying to rule out other common genetic issues?

I think SB will be able to explain this one better, but it tests for chromosome abnormalities - some of which they would need to know before doing IVF because of possibly passing it on to children - I think they can test any embryos to see if they are affected, but sometimes it can explain the azoo - I think klinefelters (sp?) is picked up on that test and gives a reason for the azoo


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## Stinas

BumpHopes - I think I posted after you in your thread! We are the newbies in this thread. So far for me its been wonderful in here...and its only been a few days here. I have learned a lot just reading through the pages of this thread. Very grateful for the wonderful azoo ladies here.

On a side note....found $10 in the parking lot of the supermarket today....hoping its the start of some good luck? I do admit, I felt guilty taking it, but I did look around me to see if anyone did lose it and there was no one. Plus it was super windy today and it did not even move. Weird. Stuff like that NEVER happens to me. Odd.


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## deafgal01

:hi: Sorry to see new ladies joining the same boat we're all in. :hugs: But like Deb and others have said- you've found the right place for support- when you need to vent away or ask questions about what you're going thru, this is the place to be.


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## Deb111

Just counted - we have 75 memebrs of this group now - very sad :nope: but great we can all share and support each other :kiss:


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## CanadianMaple

Deb111 said:


> CanadianMaple said:
> 
> 
> I just a quick question about DH's genetic testing. We're just waiting for the karyotype test now. What would they be looking for with that? I know it's all of his chromosomes, but what are they trying to find on it? Anything that really explains the azoospermia or just trying to rule out other common genetic issues?
> 
> I think SB will be able to explain this one better, but it tests for chromosome abnormalities - some of which they would need to know before doing IVF because of possibly passing it on to children - I think they can test any embryos to see if they are affected, but sometimes it can explain the azoo - I think klinefelters (sp?) is picked up on that test and gives a reason for the azooClick to expand...

I think that's what's confusing me. Not sure why they have the results to the kleinfelters but not the whole deal? I hoped that since they had the "biggies" in, they would book our darn appointment. It takes another 4 weeks to get in after they get the results.

Deb- 75 of us? Sad but somehow comforting. I had no idea how rare yet common this is. I can't imagine going through this without having the support from others who have been there.

Bumphopes- I hear you on the unfair part. It seems like everyone is pregnant this year. I lost count after the 15th pregnancy announcement. I just found out my cousin is expecting last night via facebook. (My tactless stepmom sent me a message before bedtime. She is by far the worse with sensitivity during this process.) I just keep telling myself that those people will be getting rid of baby things next year and hopefully I will be pregnant this time next year.

Happy Easter to those of you who celebrate!


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## Deb111

Strange about having the kleinfelters and not the others - sorry can't be of any help.

Yes - 75 - I know quite a lot are just in limbo and waiting at the moment and so aren't posting. Also nice to know that because Baby and Bump is searchable in Google, we come up as 6th in the list when someone googles 'azoospermia' :thumbup:


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## Pink Lolly

Oohh deb please could you update the front page for me? Thank you! Xxx


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## BumpHopes

Hi all!

Stinas - We are the newbies! lol. Shame we are here but seems there are so many people in the same boat and it feels so great to have found this thread! Hopefully your find is a sign of things to come and your luck changing! FXd!

ladies - Im just waiting for OH to do his 2nd SA to confirm Azoo. Anyone know what the process will be after that (assuming it is confirmed.) My FS did mention would get referred to a urologist. What would they do then, do you know? Like what tests? is it blood first?


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## Mercury1

Hi, 

I'm one of the lurkers Debs mentioned. I've been watching a while, but not posting. I now realise that's quite rude of me, esp as you've all been so helpful. 

Basically, I sometimes feel a bit of a fraud as I've known my BF had fertility issues since I met him (he had undescended testicle op at around 11 years old) and so haven't had to go through the shock some of you have. We haven't been together all that long - a bit over a year - but because of our ages (I'm 35 tomorrow :wacko: he's 37 soon) and also knowing there was a problem, he went for an SA around Xmas. His memory from his last one a few years ago was that the count was <1 million with motility problems also, but this one came back as zero. Even though we knew it was going to be bad, this was awful to hear :nope:

So since then, I've done lots of research. This seems to be standard - he just seems to be waiting for it to sort itself out, while I read everything I can! His GP is great, and we've seen a urologist, who's referred him to Hammersmith for 3 SAs, where they will freeze ANYTHING they find. While he's doing this, we're waiting for the genetic tests - including Y microdeletions, I was prepared for a battle on that one - and by the time all this is in, if still no :spermy: then for mTESE, all NHS funded!!! I've been so impressed so far. He also advised me to go to the GP for IVF referral as that will be the trickier bit as far as funding is concerned. The urologist was so good, and said that he promised if there was anything that could be done, it would be. I felt quite teary, having expected to be told 'tough luck'.

Anyway, now it's all waiting. Again, I feel a fraud as we wouldn't be TTC yet (altho have never used contraception with him), but by the time all the forms/tests are done we will be there. I also know I'm very lucky to live in SW London, so Hammersmith and the amazing Mr Ramsay are nearby. On top of that, I'm a midwife, so blood tests etc are easy to get done. We went along to the urologist with my BF full hormone profile already done (FSH 22, testosterone 12, which I took late in the evening, so might do an early morning one for comparison. Apparently the testosterone can vary a lot, and that might explain why he's much friskier first thing :haha: )

Anyway, hope I haven't bored you, but just thought I'd say hi, and also thanks to you all for your help and support, even though you didn't know you were doing it! I think the urologist was a bit surprised by what I knew...... I felt like saying if you think I know a lot, I can show you an amazing group of ladies who could probably give you a run for your money in the azoo area!!


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## Deb111

Stinas - all areas seem to do things slightly differently, but once we were referred to urologist, hubby had a very brief examination of his testes - looking at the size and presence of the vas deferens. Hormone blood tests had already been done at the clinic for both of us. CF carrier, karyotype and y chromosome microdeletion blood tests were then done. The hormone results will give a pretty good idea as to whether there is a blockage or not. If dh's body has recognised there is a problem with sperm production, his FSH and LH will be raised to try to compensate. If sperm production is normal but they just can't get out because of a blockage, the hormone results will be normal.

Mercury - welcome :flower: Don't worry about the lurking, I just meant that some of the girls who are having to wait months for appts etc, take a break from the site as there's nothing really totalk about and seeing others moving on can be frustrating.

Just because you knew there were issues with your BF, I'm sure you're still going through pretty much the same as we all have, except maybe some of the shock we initially had. Although I'm sure going from a count of 1 million ish to zero hit you both pretty hard. It's great that you are able to get blood tests sorted easily - even that has been a battle for many of us. When you talk about the urologist you've seen, is that Mr Ramsey? He's fab and such a humble man. Without him, I wouldn't be sitting here 10 weeks pregnant! I'm glad you've already found this group helpful - it really does make so much easier for you (and the specialists) if you have a clear understanding of what they're talking about when you have appts. You can get so much more out of your appts that way. Wishing you all the best on your journey xx


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## BumpHopes

Girls i feel like a mess right now. I just had a talk with OH about babies and we have completely talked everything through i go through with him the things i find out on here and he is so amazing and supportive. Hes more worried about me i htink and said the focus is now getting married - to get my mind off things i think. But the reason im so upset..

We was just talking and i explained what the SSR is and it may happen but obvs went thru its only a maybe and we will have to wait and see what FS says. He looked at me and said he was so sorry for being the problem and he would do anything to give me a baby and he feels like a failure because he cant do that. Then he said 'we can dream of having our baby but i dunno if this is ever gunna happen sweetheart'. 

I know this myself and been thinking the same thing, but him saying that just felt a bit like a slap in the face as a wake up call. Thinking oh my god this might really never happen. It feels like im finding out the results all over again - im so upset. I thought i dealt with the crying and being upset and its just come again. Please someone tell me im not crazy. I feel like a ive taken a step back in dealing with our situation.:cry:

Sorry for the long post x


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## BumpHopes

Anyone stil online?


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## Deb111

You are NOT going crazy :hugs: This is all very new to you and you will both go through so many ups and downs and different emotions on this journey. You are having to deal with shock, grief, anger, frustration, jealousy ... you name it; you're likely to go through it. You will also find that you and your dh will go through these emotions at different stages and process things differently. 

Unfortunately just as you think you are dealing with things better, something trivial will happen and it will all feel like it's on top of you again, but then things slowly improve. I know I don't just speak for myself when I say that every time some more bad news / test results etc hit me, I fell apart, came on here and said I just couldn't pick myself up and move on to whatever was next, but somewhere, you get the strength. You wallow in it for a few days (quite rightly so!)and the something kicks back in and you realise that carrying on is all you can do, because the alternative; giving up on your dream, is unthinkable. 

A few quotes I found when I was doing my video journal have stuck with me and might help you ...
"To get through the hardest journey in life, you only need to take one step at a time, but you have to keep on stepping."
"When you feel like giving up, just rememebr why you held on for so long."
"Crying doesn't mean you're weak; it just means you've been strong for too long."

I think many of us have found that we have been more pro-active in researching things and making things happen, whislt a lot of them men don't want to discuss it or find out about what happens next. i guess part of it is fear and part of it is guilt, feeling it's their fault.

Some of the girls on here have already got their happy endings and others are on their way. One thing I am sure of is that we will all get our happy ending. "Things will be alright in the end and if they're not alright; it just means you haven't reached the end yet."

Sorry for the essay! xx


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## Pink Lolly

^^^^Totally agree with everything Deb said xxxx


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## Mercury1

Debs, thanks for the welcome. We've only been to the local urologist so far, but as mTese has been mentioned, my plan is to request it's with him which shouldn't be too unreasonable as we're close by. We'll see......

One of the issues which came up is the risks with mTese - we were quoted 1-3% risk of damage to testosterone production, with our risk being on the higher side due to previous surgery. The BF is taking some time to get his head around this, esp as he is already feeling his masculinity has been compromised by this whole diagnosis. I guess we're just going to have to work out if that risk is worth it given what the alternative is.

BumpHopes - I'm fairly new to this too, but am I right in thinking you only got this diagnosis a few days ago? Be kind to yourself - getting your head round all this and what it may mean is huge. Some days are OK, others (esp with AF or dealing with friends and their bumps/babies) can be harder. But you have a man who loves you and you'll get through it together. It's unspeakably unfair that anyone has to go through anything like this, but when it's hard just take one day at a time. :hugs:


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## Mercury1

p.s. Debs - forgot to say many, many congratulations on your pregnancy. To have been through so much and still come back to this board to help is amazing. I just hope Mr Ramsay can repeat it for us!! :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Thanks Mercury - I wouldn't be without my azoo girls! Even those who have had their babies still pop back in when they get a minute spare. The positive stories are the ones that keep us all going and give us hope :thumbup:

Mr Ramsey will tell you more about the testosterone issues. My hubby has low test anyway so will eventually need testosterone replacement therapy, but as the NHS had already found 3 sperm on the one side, Mr R only went in on that side which he said meant there was less of an issue about reduction in testosterone. I'm sure he will do the minimal required to get what he needs. Mr R really is the most humble, genuine guy who will explain everything incredibly clearly and give you all the time you need xx


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## CanadianMaple

BumpHopes said:


> Girls i feel like a mess right now. I just had a talk with OH about babies and we have completely talked everything through i go through with him the things i find out on here and he is so amazing and supportive. Hes more worried about me i htink and said the focus is now getting married - to get my mind off things i think. But the reason im so upset..
> 
> 
> We was just talking and i explained what the SSR is and it may happen but obvs went thru its only a maybe and we will have to wait and see what FS says. He looked at me and said he was so sorry for being the problem and he would do anything to give me a baby and he feels like a failure because he cant do that. Then he said 'we can dream of having our baby but i dunno if this is ever gunna happen sweetheart'.
> 
> I know this myself and been thinking the same thing, but him saying that just felt a bit like a slap in the face as a wake up call. Thinking oh my god this might really never happen. It feels like im finding out the results all over again - im so upset. I thought i dealt with the crying and being upset and its just come again. Please someone tell me im not crazy. I feel like a ive taken a step back in dealing with our situation.:cry:
> 
> Sorry for the long post x

I could have written this exact same post (only we are newlyweds) anytime between Dec to this past Friday. I actually even took a break for a bit because it was so overwhelming to read about it everyday and to see others getting results much quicker than me. I had been getting better since March 18, when some of the results started rolling in, but even better since Friday because he is finally open to donor sperm. I finally feel like we will have a baby, after him telling me that we may have to abandon our dream. 

Some days were terrible, but they really have gotten better. The shock for the first few weeks was hard. We were grieving it at different times and he was much slower to process the enormity of it all. (I was an RN until 2006 and understood it all much quicker.) When we went to see the fertility clinic and it was difficult, but it felt like a step closer, and every call I have to the clinic is even closer... I am likely months away from any kind of IVF or IUI, but somehow it seems easier.

There will be really tough days, but just remember to be kind to each other. No matter what, you will still have each other and will have an even tougher bond for this. Take care of yourselves.


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## deafgal01

BumpHopes said:


> Girls i feel like a mess right now. I just had a talk with OH about babies and we have completely talked everything through i go through with him the things i find out on here and he is so amazing and supportive. Hes more worried about me i htink and said the focus is now getting married - to get my mind off things i think. But the reason im so upset..
> 
> We was just talking and i explained what the SSR is and it may happen but obvs went thru its only a maybe and we will have to wait and see what FS says. He looked at me and said he was so sorry for being the problem and he would do anything to give me a baby and he feels like a failure because he cant do that. Then he said 'we can dream of having our baby but i dunno if this is ever gunna happen sweetheart'.
> 
> I know this myself and been thinking the same thing, but him saying that just felt a bit like a slap in the face as a wake up call. Thinking oh my god this might really never happen. It feels like im finding out the results all over again - im so upset. I thought i dealt with the crying and being upset and its just come again. Please someone tell me im not crazy. I feel like a ive taken a step back in dealing with our situation.:cry:
> 
> Sorry for the long post x

Sending lots of :hugs: in your direction (and to everyone else who needs one right now). I know many of us have been in your shoes at one time or another with similar or the exact same emotions. Hang in there.

You still have a ways to go- more results to find out and stuff to try before you can think "oh we can't have a baby with your man's sperm". Let the dr rule that out before you go there. Stranger things (or if you prefer the word 
"miracles") have happened... :shrug:


As for me, still no change. We're still keeping DH on meds (two different ones- one to boost the testerones and one to prevent the oxygen from storing in his fat). Soon they'll be doing another blood work to check the levels again to make sure it's working properly - I think 2 more weeks he'll be getting that done. I think if it's right this time around, they'll want a SA from him soon after that point. While we're waiting around for that to work itself out (if that is the case- if that doesn't work, we're looking at some kind of surgery as an option in the summer), we're both working on ourselves- going to the gym or doing some kind of work out 3 times a week. I still have no idea what to expect from all that meds- if it's really a sperm production issue or if it's just he has none at all. :shrug: Emotionally I've been distracted with school and work. Summer will be toughest for me to deal with this.


----------



## Stinas

Mercury1 - Glad you decided to share your story! Im sorry you are going through this as well!!

Bumphopes - Im sorry...its a really tough thing to go through...it really sucks, but you do have to believe things will eventually work themselves out....no matter how hard they may seem. Deb is spot on with everything.!

As for me...I feel like I will have a better grasp of whats going on once DH goes to the urologist on tuesday. They told him they will do blood tests and an ultrasound on this testies. 
Im just hoping the find some fishies in there and take them out, put them in me and we call it a lovely day! Its nice to dream sometimes. 
Im worried for him the most. Hes putting on an act, but you can tell hes depressed and stressed out. He makes little comments like "im sick" and "im broken"....i just yell at him...it makes me mad, but then again, I can only imagine what hes going through. It was all so much easier when we thought it was me! 
We went out with our friends who have an 8 month old, who I love like my own, but we were around others who were talking about having a second and how they conceived the first shot...blah blah blah...dh and I just wanted to run. I could feel it. Being around the baby sometimes makes me feel better, but hearing about how easy TTC is for some really gets to me...especially now. Is that bad?


----------



## deafgal01

Stinas- I can relate. I see on facebook this one young girl in her early 20s that is pregnant (she's currently 10 weeks pregnant) and updates it every week (or rather feels like everyday) something pregnancy related. It makes me want to run and hide because it's not as easy for all of us here in this forum. That's when you know when you need to take a breather- leave the room and take a time out if you need to do that. Cry in a private/alone place if you feel the urge to do that in the middle of hearing all that. Maybe some of us are comfortable letting these friends know that it's a sensitive topic, not one you want to hear about at this time or something. :shrug: Maybe it seems "bad" to feel that way but after everything you, and all of us (especially our men) have been through, it's healthy to feel these emotions and it's healthier to let these emotions out one way or another (whether in private with our men, or alone).


----------



## BumpHopes

Thank you all for your kind and caring words. :flower:You have made me feel better and not feel like there is a way i 'should be feeling' it has only been about 2 weeks since we had the first lot of results so i guess this is just the rollercoaster we are all riding:wacko:

*Deb111* - thanks for getting back to me so quick. Thank you for your kind words! And the quotes are great thanks they did put things in perspective and I know the only thing that I can do is just keep going. I know what you mean about us researching things. Im always on here or checking with Dr Google lol and OH seems to not want to look too much into things.

*Pinklolly*  Thank you! And a big CONGRATULATIONS on your pregnancy!! 

*Mercury1*  thank you! Your right I got my OH and we are strong together. Just keep on going, like Dory in finding nemo just keep swimming lol. Think might be being a bit tough on myself really being like right I had a day to cry now move on. Im realizing it doesnt work like that.

*CanadianMaple*  Thank you. I see exactly what you mean about a step closer after your appointment. It was tough getting the results but at least now we can move on to see the extent of the problem and what can / cant be done to fix things. On to the next appointment

*DeafGal01*  Thank you. Your right we have no idea yet of what and whats not impossible if we can fins sperm of use donor sperm. It feels as though its all up in the air and I wish I could have answers now  I have always been impatient lol. But we will see, countdown to next appointment now, actually going to call another hospital to do the SA see if we can get in sooner there.

*Stinas* - i know exactly how you feel! on facebook there is a freind who just found out shes pregnant and got those weekly update things the latest one was 6 weeks, i used to think that they were cute and looking forward to doing mine (only after 12 weeks of course) but know it feels like everywhere there is something about pregnancy, babies and birth. My friend in work is about 28 wks PG so loveley seeing her bump everyday! lol.

Sorry for the really long post but wanted to thank you all. The support here is over whelming. Thank you so much.:hugs:


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## raelynn

Well, we're off to the urologist to get our final TESE results. Fingers crossed!

Cosita - Haven't seen you around lately but I remember you were supposed to get your results this week to so best of luck!!


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## snd80

Hi girls! Hope everyone had a great Easter! And so much activity over the weekend! I was sad to see the many new faces on here, but you have all found the best place for support, and again many thanks to Deb for starting this for us! :flower:

AFM- Went and had progesterone blood work done this morning! So now another small waiting game. But that is ok... just one more step to the real deal!!! Didn't get to look through profiles w/ hubby this weekend. He is still sick w/ the crud and didn't feel like it. We did go to my SIL's yesterday for a bit and found out she miscarried 2 weeks ago, my other SIL is pg and complained the whole time about how bad she felt, and then found out my other SIL is pg, but had an abortion 2 months ago w/ twins, and now pg again, and looking like she will have ANOTHER abortion! *sigh* Some people! Didn't find out about the abortion deal until after they had left, or I swear I would have went off on her! But suprisingly none of all the baby talk didn't bother me like in the past! Guess that is growth on my part? Any other time I would have been in tears and ready to go hide from it all, but it didn't phase me so much this time! Go me! LOL!

How is everyone else today?


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## Deb111

Keeping everything crossed for you Raelynn xx

Snd - how irresponsible fo your SIL to have an abortion and then get pregnant straight away - have they never heard of birth control?!!? Good on you for not getting too down about it all. I think when you are making progress yourself, it doesn't seem so hard xx


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## Stinas

Raelynn - good luck!!!

Snd - I'm so sorry you had to near all of that yesterday! I never understood why people take thing for granted. I am pretty pro choice, but only in serious matters, but twice? Wtf?! I would have freaked out on her myself!!! Glad you are taking it well. I think after all this stuff we seem to become harder on the outside when coming face to face with things like this. 

Bump hopes - oh god Facebook...let's not go there lol. I can't deal with all the pregnant girls anymore!!! I can only imagine what those tickers are like, so far I have not seen any, guess your friends are more sofisticated lol. One girl I went to hs with is on her 4th or 5th kid(lost count) ....they live in a 1 bedroom apt and all she does is post her every move. Drives me insane!!! I can't anymore. I couldn't wait to post about me, but I feel like now if it ever happens I don't think I will. I'm sure that might change, but I have mixed feelings now. 

Deafgal - it drives me insane!!! I get these people are happy..lout it's just hard I guess. Your right....removing ourselves from the situation helps. I let DH go to the casino with his brother and some of the guys today. I know he's stressed out and gambling is his thing. Hopefully his brother will reassure him that everything will be ok.


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## SunUp

Good luck Rae!


----------



## deafgal01

Rae- good luck with the results! I'm praying for some good news for you!

Stinas- I'm glad you're getting support here. :hugs: It really does help you to feel not so alone in this situation and it's frustrating when our men don't show their emotions. I need to check in with mine soon on this- we've not talked about this since the last time they took his blood and added another medicine.

Snd- wow that's progress... Sad your sil hasn't learned a thing from the last time. :dohh: Hasn't she ever heard of getting herself tied or using birth control (pills or condoms or something to prevent)? :dohh: Some people. :shrug: I guess there's no words for describing them. I'm glad you're not taking it as hard as you used to. Hopefully you'll get good news soon enough and you'll get to experience being pregnant. You're right about one thing though- when you're expecting and other people in the family have had their babies, they're all gonna be getting rid of their baby stuff when you're ready for it. :thumbup: That's something to think about.

Hope y'alls are doing alright on this beautiful day. I'm doing just fine- it's just another day in my book- so keeping myself busy with laundry and homework and school. Too bad I go back to work tonight (and have 7 weeks left until my next break).


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## snd80

Good luck rae!!! EVERYTHING crossed for ya!!!! 

Thanks girls! I don't get it either! Like I said yesterday, haven't they heard of pulling out/condoms/bc... anything!?! Jesus! And from what I gathered, that wasn't the first abortion she had! They have a 14 month old already and said that was her second or third abortion since their baby was born!!!! Really?! And the bad thing is they know what we are going through! Not to the donor extent, but everything else! And do you think it made her think twice? Obviousally not! Karma is a you-know-what and if she keeps on her fertility might get taken away... just sayin! :growlmad:


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## CanadianMaple

One would think that using birth control would be easier than going for abortions. Sheesh. I find I am handing baby news better lately, I think for me, it's because I feel like I am moving forward.

Rae- Good luck! I hope it's all good news from here!


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## Stinas

Deafgal - it's hard to sit them down to talk. Sometimes it feels like they only talk when they want to talk. All men are stubborn. Lol

Snd - you would think after all those abortions her insides would be ruined or they would tell her wtf already. See I think they should only be allowed so many. People take advantage of everything, it's a shame. Wouldn't it be nice to take the fertilized egg and put it in yourself? People just don't understand what they have until they lose it I guess. Shame on them, but your right, karma does end up catching up to you!!!


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## Deb111

For those of you in the UK, I have a brand new pack of pregnacare pre conception vits, about 20 IC preg tests and about 2/3 of a pack of pregnancy pre natal vits (that don't agree with me!)

If they are of any use to any of you in the UK, please let me know and PM me your address and I will pop them in the post - would hate them to go to waste xx

EDIT - the preg vits have gone to someone so just the pre conception vits and preg tests going now xx


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## raelynn

Thanks, ladies! We got some good news. They found 'some' sperm in 3 out of the 5 samples taken. The urologist didn't have exact numbers but we have some to work with which is great! Now we just have to follow up with our RE to get started on IVF.


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## Deb111

Fantastic news Rae :happydance: :dance:

Remember, we only got about 30 from the mTESE and they only used 8 of those for 1 round of ICSI which produced the 3 blastocysts. I know people say it only takes one and that's true, but to have only 1 is a long shot! But you really don't need many xx


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## Deb111

I really should keep on top of doing these more often based on your posts, but I never seem to remember :dohh: so if any of you have updates for the front page or appt dates etc, just type it in a post and I will update xx


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## CanadianMaple

Awesome news Rae!! You give me hope!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Deb- Can you update mine to say that we are still waiting for genetic results and hope to see the urologist in May/June?


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## Deb111

All done Becky x


----------



## Stinas

raelynn - YAY!!!!!!!! Thats AMAZING news!!!!! You have given me tons of hope for our Urologist apt tom!!! I wish you all the best with those spermies!!!

Deb - You are doing a wonderful job here!!!


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## Stinas

I have a weird question....could there be any possibility for some sperm to come out? Maybe just none came out during the test? Just wondering...wishful thinking I guess. Starting to get nervous for tomorrows apt.


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## raelynn

Ladies, I'm glad our positive news gives you guys hope. We really went into the TEST appointment a few weeks ago not expecting to find anything. We were very pleasantly surprised. Hubby has NOA too so apparently the few sperm his is producing just aren't making it out. Glad we have some saved now though! Unfortunately, they can't guarantee they'll survive so urologist will be on standby on egg retrieval day in case we have to do a last minute TESE to try and find fresh samples. Hubby is a bit disheartened about this but hopefully we won't have to go down that road.


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## Pink Lolly

Great news Rae! :thumbup:

Snd - I can't believe about the abortions, life really doesn't seem fair sometimes xxx


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## Deb111

Stinas said:


> I have a weird question....could there be any possibility for some sperm to come out? Maybe just none came out during the test? Just wondering...wishful thinking I guess. Starting to get nervous for tomorrows apt.

I guess it's possible. I know 'MumandDad' got a natural :bfp: but I'm not sure what their azoo cause was.

If it's down to hormone levels, they can fluctuate, but we were told hubby's numbers were so low that there's no way they would make it into the ejaculate. I guess miracles can happen, but I really wouldn't get your hopes up hun xx


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## silverbell

Pink Lolly said:


> Hello girls!
> 
> I just wanted to pop in and update those of you who haven't already heard my news....
> 
> On Wednesday this week we got our :bfp: on our second DIUI :cloud9:

I was so tempted to post on here, but thought you'd much rather announce yourself :cloud9:



Stinas said:


> Thank you very much for the fast responses!!!
> I will make DH let me come! They told him on the phone that they will do a sonogram to see whats going on. Hopefully they do it on tuesday.

I'm so sorry you have found yourself here, Stinas, but am overjoyed to see you've had so many helpful responses from the lovely ladies here. I really hope all goes well today at the appointment and you guys make some progress. I do find it very sad that your DH won't let you go with him though - this is something you're both going to have to deal with as a couple and not independently. Also, a lot of fertility experts expect or even insist on seeing couples together and not just 1 of the couple. I hope he comes around to letting you attend appointments. :hugs:

Let us know how he gets on today.



CanadianMaple said:


> Finally! DH came right out and said it this afternoon. We will have a baby either way. His sperm or with a donor. OMG!! For the first time in months, I feel like there could be a baby at the end of all of this. For the longest time, it was going to be his sperm (feeling unlikely about finding any) or none. I cannot tell you how amazing it felt to hear those words. I would actually put it up there with when he proposed.
> 
> just a quick question about DH's genetic testing. We're just waiting for the karyotype test now. What would they be looking for with that? I know it's all of his chromosomes, but what are they trying to find on it? Anything that really explains the azoospermia or just trying to rule out other common genetic issues?

Excellent news, Becky! :hugs: I think some guys just take a little longer to properly process the news and come around to other options. I'm so pleased you're so happy and a 'plan b' is in place.

Karyotype testing is for Klinefelter's syndrome when it comes to testing for infertility, so I have no idea why they've told you they're waiting for this if you've been given the all clear for KS? The test checks the size, shape and numbers of chromosomes in cells. Obviously with KS there will be an extra 'X' chromosome in there. Given that karyotype testing is to check size, shape and numbers and they've given you the all-clear for KS then how can they say they're still working on the results of karyotype? It doesn't make sense, as they will have done the karyotype testing already to tell you there's no KS! I really don't understand this. Could they have told you incorrectly?



SunUp said:


> As for me, they sent DH tese sample to John Hopkins to review! Crazy!?!
> Anyway, the TESE was negtive, which they think was related to damage from a surgery he had as a child. They did think there was a good chance for mTESE. However, DH and I talked a LOT, and the risks (I wont go into detail - this is due to the previous surgery as a kid) for mTESE are just not something we want to deal with. Plus, we would have to have donor backup, in case the sperm weren't of good quality. So after much discussion, we CHOSE to do DIUI.
> 
> DH and I are soooo excited. We know it might not work right away, but the thought of us having our baby - actually being able to feel like its happening - is exciting :happydance:
> 
> Only thing left to do is meet with the social worker before IUI- DH hates this idea but its mandatory. He thinks its our kid -we don't need someone else giving us suggestions/ telling us what to do. :dohh: I told him I think we will be more meeting with her to hash out some possible questions and find out how other couples do in this circumstance.
> 
> I just can't wait - next month will be our first time, of 'trying' and having a decent chance :) - and DH is just as happy!

Hi SunUP :hugs: This is exactly how I felt - the progress and very real prospect of actually getting pregnant was just amazing and made us so happy and excited.

Don't worry about the social worker meeting. If it's anything like the mandatory counselling in the UK it's easy peasy and just to check you've understood the implications of using donor sperm and how you'll feel or deal with telling, the child possibly locating the donor when they're older, the child having lots of half siblings out there etc etc. I do think it's all a bit silly to be honest because to agree to donor sperm you've most definitely already thought it all through - how can you not?!

Let us know how you get on and when your first cycle starts! :happydance:



BumpHopes said:


> Hi Deb, THNAK YOU so much for posting about this and making your journal. OH had this on his last SA and just in the proccess of getting another one done... I've only just stumbled on your journal so gunna take the time to read through it. Hope you dont mind.:flower:
> 
> ladies - Im just waiting for OH to do his 2nd SA to confirm Azoo. Anyone know what the process will be after that (assuming it is confirmed.) My FS did mention would get referred to a urologist. What would they do then, do you know? Like what tests? is it blood first?


BumpHopes, so sorry you find yourself here, but I'm glad you're getting all the usual support and help from the lovely ladies here :hugs:

Yes, after my DH's second SA confirmed the azoo we were referred to our local Urologist. However, we wanted quicker answers so we went privately for an initial consultation and by then we'd learned much more than any of the professionals we'd come across could tell us. We'd gotten an ultrasound scan in the pipeline for DH (as this is something a Urologist will often check first to check for blockages/missing things etc) and gotten blood tests for him to check Testosterone and other hormones (again, this is something they'd want). We also persuaded our GP to do the 3 genetic blood tests - y-microdeletions, karyotype and cystic fibrosis carrier. When we finally got to see the Urologist he said the only thing left for him to do was to open him up and 'have a look' but they wouldn't do anything else. By then we'd already decided to have the more thorough biopsy done in London (microTESE) and so we told him 'no thanks' and went to London instead. I hope this helps. The more you can get done before seeing the Urologist, the quicker the process will be (at least, in my experience).

Oh and I also got myself referred to Gynae to check me over too, so that I was completely ready to start whatever treatment as soon as DH had his microTESE. It just cuts out more of that horrible waiting.



Mercury1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm one of the lurkers Debs mentioned. I've been watching a while, but not posting. I now realise that's quite rude of me, esp as you've all been so helpful.
> 
> Basically, I sometimes feel a bit of a fraud as I've known my BF had fertility issues since I met him (he had undescended testicle op at around 11 years old) and so haven't had to go through the shock some of you have. We haven't been together all that long - a bit over a year - but because of our ages (I'm 35 tomorrow :wacko: he's 37 soon) and also knowing there was a problem, he went for an SA around Xmas. His memory from his last one a few years ago was that the count was <1 million with motility problems also, but this one came back as zero. Even though we knew it was going to be bad, this was awful to hear :nope:
> 
> Anyway, hope I haven't bored you, but just thought I'd say hi, and also thanks to you all for your help and support, even though you didn't know you were doing it! I think the urologist was a bit surprised by what I knew...... I felt like saying if you think I know a lot, I can show you an amazing group of ladies who could probably give you a run for your money in the azoo area!!

Hey Mercury. Don't beat yourself up for not posting and you're certainly not a fraud. Like Deb said, the only real difference is that perhaps the 0 SA results weren't as much of a shock as what most of us ladies experience, but that doesn't change all the other feelings that come with that confirmation.

Keeping everything crossed that things move quickly for you. :hugs:



raelynn said:


> Thanks, ladies! We got some good news. They found 'some' sperm in 3 out of the 5 samples taken. The urologist didn't have exact numbers but we have some to work with which is great! Now we just have to follow up with our RE to get started on IVF.

Fabulous news, raelynn! :dance: I bet you're both over the moon :cloud9:


----------



## deafgal01

Deb- would it be too much to ask you to add me to the front page? I suppose I'm a member of it now (long enough)... :shrug: Just put down my sn deafgal01- my tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA two times so far by urologist. DH currently on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole (follow up in few weeks with blood work to check levels for 2nd time since starting medicine- more details to find out in May 2012).

Thanks a bunch.


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## silverbell

Hey Deb - could you update my info too. mTESE - 0 sperm. Currently TTC with donor sperm IUI.

Thanks :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Deafgal and SB - all updated.

I guess I also don't like to assume what people want putting on the front page :thumbup:


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## snd80

:happydance: rae!!!!! 

SB- How much longer til test date? :dust:

Deb- you can update mine anytime w/out my permission! :haha: Starting 1st DIUI in May!!! :wohoo: 

How is everyone today?


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## snd80

Guess what girls! We picked out our donor today!!!! Hubby was off work today and came by my work and we went through the list and he picked one out! :happydance: He picked out one I had saved but looked more like me w/ dark blonde hair and blue eyes. Kinda sad he didn't like the ones more like him, but at least he made up his mind!!!!!!!!! I am soooo excited now! Now to call the company and ask how to get the order in..... And then my boss came home from the hospital today and is doing good, so today has been a good day!!!


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## Stinas

Snd - that's amazing news!! Congrats!! Glad dh had a complete turnaround. I'm super happy for you!!!! Yay!! 


Dh just came home from his apt. No real answers yet, which I knew would happen, but it's nothing majorly bad either. He just left to drop off another sa, they took blood from him as well as doing an ultrasound. Doc said it could be hormonal, does not look like a blockage, and could also be because he has a few more veins down there they would be blocking it. There's a few things that could be wrong that the blood tests could show. 
Now this is all dh version. As of now he has agreed to let me come next time. 
What do you ladies think? Bad good can't tell yet?


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## Deb111

Great news snd - so happy you're moving on with things :thumbup:

Stinas - all sounds as it should be so far. Sounds like he's got a decent urologist who knows what to test and look at. The veins he mentioned could be a varicocele which could be causing an issue although you would need to google it - I don't know much about them. Hormone tests will give an indication about a possible blockage too. It sounds like your dh has remembered info well :thumbup: but great news hat he's going to let you go with him in future xx


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## snd80

Good luck stinas! Hope it will be a really simple fix! Everything crossed for you!!!

PS- what part of the states are you from?


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Guess what girls! We picked out our donor today!!!!

That's freaking AWESOME news :dance: Sooooo happy for you :thumbup:

(testing date is in my siggy - 7 days left ... if I can hold out or if AF doesn't show prior to that. She would actually be due a week today normally but I'm not sure if the drugs will have prolonged it).



Stinas said:


> Dh just came home from his apt. No real answers yet, which I knew would happen, but it's nothing majorly bad either. He just left to drop off another sa, they took blood from him as well as doing an ultrasound. Doc said it could be hormonal, does not look like a blockage, and could also be because he has a few more veins down there they would be blocking it. There's a few things that could be wrong that the blood tests could show.
> Now this is all dh version. As of now he has agreed to let me come next time.
> What do you ladies think? Bad good can't tell yet?

Stinas, I'm sooo pleased he's said you can go to appointments from now on - that's brilliant and definitely best for the 2 of you as you're in this together.

It all sounds normal to me and good that he's doing the bloods and ultrasound - that's exactly what we had to get done too. 

Unfortunately with azoospermia you never can tell if it'll be bad or good. There are men with completely off the wall blood results who have had successful sperm retrieval and men who have had near-normal results with a poor outcome. The specialist I saw said that there is no test available that can tell you if it'll be a good or bad outcome in the end - they just give the specialists an idea as to what's wrong and what they're dealing with. The ultimate outcome is really only known by doing a biopsy (when it's non-obstructive azoo).

I am keeping everything crossed it's a simple solution for you, Stinas. As much as it's lovely to have this thread so active it still breaks my heart when I see newcomers and all those first couple of months post-SA memories come flooding back. :cry: None of us should have to go through any of this. I honestly believe you'll both be stronger for it at the end though. This thread is full of amazingly strong ladies.


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## Stinas

SND - I am in Northern NJ....about 30min from NYC.

Silverbell - Thank you! I can imagine how sad it is to see newcomers to the thread. Hopefully these few months go by fast. 

We hit a small snag. DH came home from his apt...made a SA in a cup to bring directly to the place the doc told him to bring it to.....well...he got there and the receptionist told him they dont do those kinds of testing there.!! DH was super mad and when he called the office they had already closed. He is going to call tom to see where he really needs to go. 
I guess the bumps in the road have already started! Yay.


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## deafgal01

Stinas- oh no... Now that sample will be no good. Don't they know what difficulties they're putting you two thru? :grr: Hope you figure out where he's supposed to go. I'm glad they did my DH at the office- he gave the sample there and they took care of the rest from there (but it was a urologist office that he went to). :shrug:


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## Stinas

Deafgal - I know its no good now...he trashed it. It was a urologist office he went to. I think im going to look into a better urologist. DH just booked whoever had the earliest available apt. Just another snag in the road I guess.


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## deafgal01

That's frustrating... I had DH inquire on the phone whether their office do SA or not. When I first booked my appt for the check up- my dr told me over phone when I asked her secretary if they did SA or not. They didn't, so I asked for a referral and they gave me a name and number, so that's how we found the urologist. :shrug:

Maybe you could ask over the phone whether they do SA and which type (like if your hubby has to do it somewhere at home or something and bring it in or if they do it at the office). There are pros and cons to both types.


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## Stinas

Its sooo frustrating! Im sure it will all work out eventually.


----------



## snd80

Suprised they didn't give him better instructions! Geez! Like you would know already! Not all of us are dr.'s, although as much as some of us have been through, we could be! LOL! Now I'm guessing he will have to wait a few days until he can submit a new one, right?

Jersey Girl! =) Do you know Snookie?! LOL! Had to ask!


----------



## Deb111

snd80 said:


> Now I'm guessing he will have to wait a few days until he can submit a new one, right?

I was thinking the same thing :dohh:

I hate to say it, but the blunders and medical imcompetence are not new to us here! :nope: Hope it's sorted soon xx


----------



## Stinas

snd - NO lol Dont think anything on that Jersey Shore show is what real NJ people are like. Far Far Far from it...all except 2 I believe are even from NJ...most of them are from Staten Island NY....most of them are like that lol 
I know you would think these people would know what to tell dh. Now we are going to have to wait a few more days for a new sample. Problem is, its not easy for him to just go any day. He works a lot and its hard for him to take off. I know this is what our future is going to look like, him taking off and that sort of thing, but it just makes me mad that something so easy could be messed up. Hopefully it all gets sorted out ASAP and we get good results back.


----------



## Stinas

Deb111 said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> Now I'm guessing he will have to wait a few days until he can submit a new one, right?
> 
> I was thinking the same thing :dohh:
> 
> I hate to say it, but the blunders and medical imcompetence are not new to us here! :nope: Hope it's sorted soon xxClick to expand...

Oh I know...im not shocked actually. When he came home to tell me he was going to do his thing in the cup and go drop it off I was like "already? that easy?" I knew it was too good to be true. 
It is what it is. DH is good with sorting things out. He drives me nuts in the meantime, but he always makes things better. :flower:


----------



## Mercury1

Silverbell - thanks for the welcome, and wishing you the best of luck for your 2ww. From looking at all the posts, there are so many people behind you for this, you deserve to have everything you hope for.

snd - what amazing news to have chosen your donor! that must be the kind of decision that no couple expects to be making, but it gives me hope that if that's what's needed to get where we want to be, that one day we could be able to do the same as you two have done today.

Raelynn - so pleased that your first results are good. how did your OH find the TESE? was it painful?

I'm just back from dinner with a pregnant friend - I've been avoiding it, but couldn't come up with any more excuses! She doesn't know what's happening with us (although quite a few friends do), but I managed to switch into a professional mode for a while I think to deal with it. I also made my appointment for IVF consult today - the first available is 23rd may, the day after the follow-up at the urologist. J's going to do his 2nd SA at Hammersmith tomorrow, but they won't tell us if anything was found for freezing in the first one. So frustrating :growlmad: it's OUR result and it makes such a difference if there's anything or nothing, but have to wait until the end of may to find out. Oh well. I suppose this will help me improve my patience......


----------



## raelynn

Great news snd!!

As for me, I spoke with our fertility center today and they are calling in my birth control script for down regging. We start as soon as AF shows (which could be quite some time since PCOS has given me crazy long cycles). We'll do the mock embryo transfer this upcoming cycle as well. Come on AF!!


----------



## raelynn

Mercury1 said:


> Raelynn - so pleased that your first results are good. how did your OH find the TESE? was it painful?

DH had a really easy TESE. The worst part for him was the IV since he hates needles. The nurse had me try to distract him while he was waiting for anesthesia. He was tender for a couple of days but he was on pain meds and I kept him on bed rest for about 4 days and just brought him anything he might need. The urologist said he's healed up really nicely and doesn't need another follow up and all restrictions on lifting and strenuous activity have been lifted.


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## deafgal01

Just found out last night dh gets blood taken this Friday?! Wow- pray for good news or at least the results we have been waiting for. Think if blood levels are finally right, they will schedule another SA sometime before May.


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## Stinas

Congrats on all the progression ladies!!! It's nice to read!!!


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## silverbell

Nice one, deafgal :thumbup: Keeping everything crossed for you guys.


----------



## wibble wobble

Hey everyone sorry I've been away soooo long. I've been one of those dormant members taking a step back while nothing is happening with me except for going :wacko:

Welcome to all the newbies you really have found the best thread ever,with the nicest group of girlies ever :hugs:

It's nice to see so many of you moving forward in what seems like big leaps, choosing donors,having iui,finding sperm, getting results :happydance: Things do happen eventually.


afm it's 5 days now until my Ivf planning appointment, I haven't had a call yet to say I've been matched to a donor and I don't think I'll be finding out tuesday... that's just a run through the paperwork and drugs I'll be on. I've decided now that I'll give the donor co ordinator a ring mid next week, I need to know a rough waiting time frame. My life feels like it's on hold, I need that piece of info for piece of mind.

wishing you all lots of luck and hope good things happen to all :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Sorry for the lazy copy and paste from my journal but I'm exhausted!

Well what an eventful afternoon! I've been having some chest pains and shortness of breath so I thought I ought to just pop to Dr's and check it out.

Saw a locum at the Dr's who listened to my chest and lungs, examined my legs for swelling or pain and then said although he couldn't find anything to worry about, there is an increased risk of blood clots in pregnancy and he didn't want to take any chances and there and then phoned the local hospital and asked to be put through to the oncall registrar who suggested I pop in to A and E.

Took my Mum with me as I didn't know how long I'd be and Terry has to be in bed for 9 as he's driving at 3am.

Only had an hour's wait so not too bad. Lovely male nurse did my obs (BP, oxygen levels etc), had an ECG - all fine. Apparently oxygen levels were 100% so didn't suggest a blod clot, but couldn't do an xray to confirm because of me being pregnant. So they took some blood out of an artery (not a vein) in my wrist - I asked her for some reassurance that it wasn't going to be anymore painful than a blood test ... and she said 'ermmm I'm afraid it will be' Anyway, it wasn't horrific, but stung pretty badly and has left a nice bruise. Then I had to do laps of A and E (like a nutter) for 10mins and have the same blood test repeated to see if the levels had dropped and they hadn't so it confirms no blood clot.

She thinks the chest pain is muscular, which I can believe as I think I've been lying awkwardly on my shoulder in bed and with everything loosening off, it's pulled something. She's not concerned about the shortness of breath at night as she says the main reason for concern with that would be heart failure and the ECG shows nothing wrong with my heart.

She used to work in fertility so was interested about the ICSI and the male (very lovely and very gay) nurse gave me a big hug when I left and said if I was ever passing, to pop in and show him the baby.

So, I feel reassured which is good, but will keep an eye on the sleep / breathing thing as it's not pleasant - I've had it in the past, but maybe like once every month or 2 whereas I've had it about half a dozen times in less than a fortnight xx


----------



## Stinas

wibble wobble - Hello!!!

Deb - Im glad you are ok!!! That must have been scary! Its nice meeting people like that...there are not too many nice & caring people that work at hospitals and such anymore. Makes you feel reassured.


----------



## raelynn

Deafgal - Everything crossed and lots of prayers for good results!


----------



## silverbell

Deb, not sure if you'll remember but I had exactly the same issue a few months ago and had to go to A&E and they all panicked when I said chest pain and in the end all my tests were clear and it was put down as muscular pain from my back and chest causing the pain. I used hot water bottles to try to relax the muscles in the end and it went away eventually. I hope you're feeling better soon.



wibble wobble said:


> afm it's 5 days now until my Ivf planning appointment, I haven't had a call yet to say I've been matched to a donor and I don't think I'll be finding out tuesday... that's just a run through the paperwork and drugs I'll be on. I've decided now that I'll give the donor co ordinator a ring mid next week, I need to know a rough waiting time frame. My life feels like it's on hold, I need that piece of info for piece of mind.
> 
> wishing you all lots of luck and hope good things happen to all :hugs:

Great news, Wibble! Let us know how you get on. I know what you mean about your life being on hold, but you're so close now.


----------



## Step Mummy

snd80 said:


> Sun- I would check into the CMV status. I am - and they told me if we used a + one, it risked the baby being born handicap... but YAY for progress!!!!!! I know it is sooo exciting knowing there is finally a "real" chance in the works! I feel the same!!! HUGS!

I thought I would add a little to this, as when you look into the details, it does not seem quite so scary! I am CMV- and we struggled to find a donor the same and were going to go with a CMV+ donor, in the end found a negatve one last minute that matched our requirements better).

This is my interpretation of CMV - I am not a doctor so don't quote me on this, have a look online yourself: but I discovered that if you are CMV negative, it means that if you contract the CMV virus during pregnancy this can cause risks to the baby (which could be severe). I understand that the worry is that the CMV will pass from the positive donor to you and then affect the baby. However it is unlikely you will catch CMV from the donor because the virus is "sleeping" and it is unlikely you can catch the virus from someone where the virus is "Sleeping". They do not use donors with a "live" virus. 

You can also catch this virus out and about, so all CMV- ladies should take extra precautions when pregnant like washing hands often, don't kiss kiddies on the lips etc, avoid people with colds, as most of the population have had the virus, mostly when they were children - it is very alike Chicken Pox, so for example you could catch it off little kids who it would seem just have a cold, but we would never know if they have the CMV virus.

I also wondered; if I am still having BD with DH and he is a positive (but sleeping virus), I am more likely to catch it off him than the donor, surely as we do DH often and the IUI is only a few times????

I hope the info helps!


----------



## snd80

Thank you Step for the input! I really didn't search too much into it after what the doctor told me, but me being me and having shitty luck always following me, I didn't want to risk anything! So we picked a - donor........... 

And drum rolll!!!!! I placed my order this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 vials and shipping and $1900 dollars later, our spermies will be in Jackson MONDAY!!!! :happydance: :dance: I am SOOO freaking excited!!!! 

They called me this morning and said my progesterone levels were great! So I have my annual exam for the 30th of this month, which if my cycles are still on track it will be CD12-CD14, so I can also have my scans done to see if the good side is producing, and maybe, just maybe, we can go for the 1st try!!!! :cloud9: It is like we have been in limbo _*forever*_, and now it is all happening soooo fast!


----------



## snd80

Good luck to WW, and DG! Everything including eyes crossed for you!


----------



## snd80

Deb- Hope you get to feeling better soon! Hugs!


----------



## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Thank you Step for the input! I really didn't search too much into it after what the doctor told me, but me being me and having shitty luck always following me, I didn't want to risk anything! So we picked a - donor...........
> 
> And drum rolll!!!!! I placed my order this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 vials and shipping and $1900 dollars later, our spermies will be in Jackson MONDAY!!!! :happydance: :dance: I am SOOO freaking excited!!!!
> 
> They called me this morning and said my progesterone levels were great! So I have my annual exam for the 30th of this month, which if my cycles are still on track it will be CD12-CD14, so I can also have my scans done to see if the good side is producing, and maybe, just maybe, we can go for the 1st try!!!! :cloud9: It is like we have been in limbo _*forever*_, and now it is all happening soooo fast!

:happydance:

Great news! I was on such a high when we chose our donor. It's such a major thing and it felt so good to have gotten to that stage. Well done to you both and I'm praying your ovaries play nicely and ovulate from the good side soon. Fingers crossed!


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## Stinas

snd - thats AMAZING news!!!! WOW that happened super fast!!! Yay! How exciting!!!


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## CanadianMaple

I'm just about to have supper and will be back for personals in a bit. Just wondering what you would do in my situation. We have been waiting 5 months to see the urologist DH's family doctor sent. They called today to book his appointment and he said he didn't need it since he will see the RE's urologist soon.

We know he has low T (very, very low) and are still waiting for the last genetic test result before they send us to their urologist. They said it takes about 4 weeks to see him after the referral is put in. 

Should he have gone to that one anyway or should we just wait another 6 weeks or so to see the one that would do the TESE if he is eligible?

Ahhh! So frustrating to say no to an appointment after waiting FIVE months to see a urologist.


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## Stinas

CanadianMaple - Thats a long time to wait!!!! Im sorry!!! That sucks big time! I dont understand why it takes soooo long just to see a freaking doctor! Thats frustrating. I would just go see the doc who can see you the earliest. Its enough of a frustrating thing to go through what we are going through, but to have to wait on top of that....its just wrong.


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- waiting for the genetic tests has been brutal, especially since they won't book anything until they are in. I feel very frustrated tonight.

Sdn80- omg! I'm excited for you, everything is speeding along for you. You must be so excited!


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## Stinas

Canadian - Im sorry!! Hope it all gets sorted out soon~!


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## silverbell

Hey everybody.

I'm very sad to say that I got a very early, very surprising and very nasty AF this morning. I'm only 9dpiui (8 day luteal phase).

My clinic say they can't explain it, but it can happen sometimes. I'm hoping to get some better answers at my scan next weekend to check on follie size for cycle 2.


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## snd80

CM- Oh no honey! That sucks! In this terrible game of azoo, we all have the patience of saints after all the waiting and waiting and waiting some more! Hope it speeds up soon for you! :hugs:

SB- *sigh* I don't know what to say! Massive :hugs: to you lady! That broke my heart to read!!!!! I was praying hard for it to work for you the first try!!!! :cry: Keep your head up sweetie!


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## Stinas

I'm sorry silver!!


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## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry Silver. It's not fair. :(

Update to my panicked post last night. I called the RE clinic and his results are in! We finally can see the fertility Urologist on May 10!!!!


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## snd80

Yay CM! Won't be too long!

AFM- started to "pink" a little today, so might be sooner than expected! =)


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## Deb111

So sorry SB - I don't know what to say xx


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## Stinas

Canadian - Yay!!!

SND - Yay for pink! hehe


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I'm so sorry Silver. It's not fair. :(
> 
> Update to my panicked post last night. I called the RE clinic and his results are in! We finally can see the fertility Urologist on May 10!!!!

Have updated front page with your appt :happydance: xx


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## Stinas

Just got off the phone with DH....doc called and said all his bloodwork came back normal. He goes for his SA on monday and then once we get that back I think he needs to do a sonogram on the balls. 

Is this good that its not hormonal? Doc told him that its actually harder to fix if its hormonal?


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## Deb111

As for which is easier to fix, there seem to be so many different issues / combinations of issues that can cause azoospermia, I really don't know :shrug:

However, although no test results can tell you 100% whether they will find sperm to remove surgically or not, normal blood test results (in terms of hormones) certainly suggest it could be a blockage as the body has no need to increase FSH / LH to solve the problem of no sperm production, because it senses there is normal sperm production - fingers crossed for you xx


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## Stinas

Thanks deb! I sure hope so!!! 
The normal test results gave me some hope!


----------



## rdleela

Hi, ladies, well, been stalking this awesome thread a tiny bit, but haven't posted yet. Been messaging a bit with Cdn Maple, and Stinas, we were on some of the same threads a few months ago - sorry to see we both ended up in this position :(

Anyways, we're in northern Alberta in a small town; I'll be 33 next month, DH is 36. Been actively TTC since last August, have a great doctor who ordered an SA for DH very quickly. Got the zero sperm news two days before my grandfather passed away, he was in the hospital at the time. I put away my shock for a few weeks after that, then this news we got finally started to sink in.

No problems with me, I just have a short luteal phase, progesterone really worked for me back when I thought we had sperm. I'm overweight, trying to lose some weight. I did have a really weird cycle recently, MASSIVE horrible ovulation pain, went to ER. Had ultrasounds and xrays next day, just proved I have no issues and got some quick, easy ultrasounds! lol, turns out just a large follicle that grew too fast that caused the pain and I don't think I ovulated b/c of it. Did a ton of research on it, sounds like a non-issue.

Anyways, back to DH; did a second SA, zero sperm. Had an ultrasound, found a cyst on left side. It actually causes him a lot of pain (has actually had some pain for the last year). All his blood work came back normal. His SA's both came back with high white blood cell counts, low volume and high pH, which from what I read leans towards blockage.

DH had a testicular biopsy done this morning! :) Did not get any opinion from doctor on what he saw in tissue sample, so we just have to wait a couple of weeks to find out.

If we have no sperm, we will move on to adoption. DH is against sperm donor, and I would be sad that I wouldn't get to experience pregnancy, but I respect DH's concerns, so adoption it will be! I've always wanted to adopt, so I'll be happy with that.

If we DO have sperm, it will depend on the advice we get, I guess! If straight on to IVF/ICSI is the advice, that's what we'll do. My preferred option is blockage by-pass surgery; hopefully it will be an option for us. From everything I've read about these surgeries, the skill of the doctor will determine the success of the surgery, so I've found a surgeon in Prince George, BC who specializes in these types of surgeries. I'm not feeling comfortable with the surgeon in Edmonton, just b/c he doesn't specialize in these surgeries, but he did tell me this morning that he does do them.

Looks like it will cost us $6000 for the surgery, plus travel costs if we decide to go with the specialist. Does anyone on this thread have any experience with the surgeries? Or were you given the choice between surgery and IVF/ICSI? Why did you choose to go the routes you chose? Any advice would be helpful!

And sorry for the insanely long post! Looking forward to getting to know you ladies!


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## Deb111

Hi rdleela and welcome :flower:

So sorry to hear about your diagnosis, but it sounds like you're dealing with it well and have done a lot of research.

In terms of the blockage bypass surgery, I've not heard of it unless we call it something different here :shrug: In terms of actually repairing blockages, what I've read and been told is that it doesn't have a very high success rate at all and therefore they will usually prefer to just do a surgical soerm retrieval rather than attempting to repair a blockage.

It frustrates me that so many couples are having to wait so long for biopsy results. I wonder if they are being frozen and looked at later? because when we had our biopsy on the NHS, they told hubby whilst they were still doing the procedure that they had found one healthy motile one and we had the full results within 3 hours. Then when he had the private mTESE, the wouldn't take me down for EC until they had confirmation that they had sperm so we knew within 2 hours. It just seems cruel to keep people waiting so long :nope: Anyway I really hope it's good news for you.

You will get great support her whatever route you decide to go down xx


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## wibble wobble

Hi rdleela welcome to the thread.... sorry your here tho, it's horrible that there is so many of us Azoo wifie's now :(

Silverbird big (((hugs))) hope you get some answers at your next appointment


----------



## Stinas

rdleela - Hi! Im sooooo sorry to see you here! Its nice to see a familiar name, but not in this situation. 
Looks like your a step ahead of me. Im fairly new to knowing all this stuff, but have been comforted and well informed of what lies ahead of me from these lovely ladies. You came to the right thread! 
Hope we all get this stuff sorted out and on to holding our babies in our arms!


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## rdleela

Thanks for the warm welcome ladies! Stinas, I was shocked to see you on here, but yes, nice to see a familiar name! I hope you start getting some answers soon!

I have been dealing with this since the very end of January, while also grieving for my grandfather, and all I can tell you is that in this process, I do believe we are also going through the grieving process. I am currently on the ANGER stage, unfortunately. To get through it, I've been immersing myself in research. My DH is the opposite, he just wants to go along and figure stuff out after the dr's tell us stuff! I would rather know exactly what the dr is going to tell us before he tells us! lol

As for the blockage bypass surgery I was talking about, it's called Vasoepididymostomy. In extremely simple terms, it would be like doing a reverse vasectomy, but to bypass a blockage instead. It's a much more complicated procedure than a reverse v though.

Are there any ladies on this thread who are dealing with a blockage? Or are most of you dealing with hormonal issues? I mean, if they are finding sperm on your hubbies, are they not even offering the above surgery or just moving you right along to IVF/ICSI?

From what I've ready, a successful surgery has very good results in natural pregnancy, actually better rates than IVF, depending on the health of the female. (But a successful surgery REALLY depends on a skilled surgeon.)

I am thinking if you go to a fertility clinic, of course they want you to move along to IVF/ICSI. If you see an actual urologist, not at a fertility clinic, I bet you'd be offered the surgery if they thought they could bypass the blockage (and female no issues).

So yeah, just wondering how you made your decisions to go to IVF/ICSI if you HAVE sperm? Were you even offered surgery on DH?

Oh, and as for why I didn't get results that day, I'm dealing with a urologist, and the biopsy was strictly to go in and pull a sample, he doesn't even look at it, he just sends it away to a pathologist. Maybe if we did this at a fertility clinic, they would have looked at it immediately?


----------



## Deb111

I can't speak for others, although I know a lot of the girls hubby's didn't have blockages, but there was no blockage with my hubby. His was hormonal and he was producing minute numbers even with hormone treatment and when I say minute numbers, we're talking only 30-40 sperm collected in a very thorough mTESE op. Thankfully it was all we needed :thumbup:

That op sounds very interesting and it makes sense that bypassing a blockage would be more successful than trying to repair a blockage in a tiny tube


----------



## Deb111

Just had a little google and it seems that with that procedure, they do a biopsy first to confirm sperm production and they can then freeze what they find as a back up incase the procedure doesn't return sperm to the ejaculate so I don't see how you can lose esp if the procedure could potentially save a lot of money over ICSI :thumbup:


----------



## Stinas

rdleela - Thank you! I think DH has a blockage, but we are still in the process of finding out. Its not hormonal, all his bloods just came back normal, so a few more tests and we will find out for sure. The urologist said its leaning more towards a blockage. 
As deb said, I dont see how you can lose by doing the surgery...especially if they do freeze some sperm. 
My question is, if the doc does not do a great job or something goes wrong, can they lose mobility down there, or is there a risk of that sort when doing the surgery? Just curious.


----------



## rdleela

Yeah, what have we got to lose! lol

I know they aren't freezing any of his sperm if they find some in this sample. If we did have to go to IVF/ICSI, they'll have to go back in to get some from him.

I have no idea if there is a chance that the surgery could impact his future sperm production if it doesn't work, but that will DEF be a question I will ask before we have the procedure, if anyone will even advise us to get the procedure done.

Stinas, I am so interested to see what will happen with you, our cases so far sound very similar!

Deb, so you were left hanging - not hormonal, not a blockage? That would drive me crazy! But who cares the cause, I guess, what matters is you got your baby! :)

We've made up our minds that we will pursue this surgery first. If we are advised against it, or chances don't look good, then we will definitely be heading straight for IVF/ICSI ASAP, no time wasted over here! I am so impatient! lol

And I guess it all depends on them actually finding some spermies! lol, look at me go, don't even know for sure we have anything to work with yet!


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: hi rdleela. Sorry you are finding yourself in the same boat as all of azoo ladies are in. You have come to right place for support.

Currently I guess the dr thinks it's a hormone issue due to levels in the blood work on my dh. If medicine does not work, they said there will be surgery but I have no idea which kind yet as we have not reached that point yet thankfully.


----------



## Deb111

rdleela said:


> Deb, so you were left hanging - not hormonal, not a blockage? That would drive me crazy! But who cares the cause, I guess, what matters is you got your baby! :)

We weren't left hanging - it is a combination of a hormonal issue and also the fact that many of the 'production lines in his factory' either aren't working or aren't going right through to full maturation (and never have been). The hormone medication worked on the very tiny number of pockets that were working and drove the numbers up. Numbers were just WAY too low to get any sperm into the ejaculate, but as you say, they found what they needed - thanks to us being lucky enough to be in the UK and fairly local to one of THE urologists to go to with these issues :thumbup:


----------



## Stinas

Rdleela - yes they do sound pretty similar. Hoping it all ends up with a wonderful story. 

DH goes in for a SA Tom. Poor guy threw out his back really bad. So bad that he feels like he did when he broke his ribs a few years back. The crazy person that I am I asked if he's ok enough to do the SA Tom lol he painfully laughed and said yes lol


----------



## rdleela

Deb111 said:


> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> Deb, so you were left hanging - not hormonal, not a blockage? That would drive me crazy! But who cares the cause, I guess, what matters is you got your baby! :)
> 
> We weren't left hanging - it is a combination of a hormonal issue and also the fact that many of the 'production lines in his factory' either aren't working or aren't going right through to full maturation (and never have been). The hormone medication worked on the very tiny number of pockets that were working and drove the numbers up. Numbers were just WAY too low to get any sperm into the ejaculate, but as you say, they found what they needed - thanks to us being lucky enough to be in the UK and fairly local to one of THE urologists to go to with these issues :thumbup:Click to expand...

That's great that you did get an answer and were close to a great urologist! That's something that I haven't read about yet, so glad to know your story! I'm sure you posted that info a long time ago, thanks for telling it again to me!


----------



## deafgal01

Stinas- so funny to hear that was the first thing you asked your DH. :dohh: Hope his back feels better soon- it can't be much fun dealing with a back that is thrown out.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi rdleela- I'm glad you are in here and getting support. I really hope that surgery is successful, it must be such a delicate surgery. How has your husband been processing all of this? 

Stinas- I hope your husband's back is feeling better.

Deb- How is everything? Are you feeling good?

For any of you who have seen an IF psychologist, what can we expect when we see him on Wednesday? We will talk about donor sperm, but right now, that is our plan B. We want to talk about how it feels to be experiencing this and how to cope with what's ahead (IVF or donor).


----------



## Stinas

Thank you ladies....hes doing a bit better today. Big baby lol I know hes in pain but geesh....after giving him some meds what else can I do? lol

Canadian - Is it a must to see a IF physch?


----------



## Mercury1

Hope everyone had a good weekend. 

So...... my OH went to try a second sample for banking last week, and although they found nothing in that one - or at least hadn't after 90 mins of looking - the guy doing the consent for storing told him they did find something in the one the week before!!!!! :happydance: I wasn't there but OH was told the numbers were minimal. I'm not sure what that means .... a couple of hundred would be minimal for most people. But I think that might be too hopeful, so I'm only expecting in the 10's. He didn't ask anything about mobility etc, but I'm assuming they would only freeze stuff that looks fairly normal and is moving a bit. 

The guy was very clear with him that it's not much at all, and it may not survive thawing. He also said he should come back 2 or 3 more times, because every now and again they might find something. But I'm so pleased for him, he does struggle with not being manly enough beause of all this. Maybe it'll make the idea of surgery easier to deal with if it's needed.

Trying to stay realistic though. Still haven't had the genetic results back. The urologist implied that they should be OK as the cause seems to be the surgery as a child, which was quite late. But a friend of mine who's a reproductive scientist said that as undescended testicles aren't normal, there could be an underlying genetic reason for that to have happened in the first place :shrug:


----------



## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> Deb- How is everything? Are you feeling good?
> 
> For any of you who have seen an IF psychologist, what can we expect when we see him on Wednesday? We will talk about donor sperm, but right now, that is our plan B. We want to talk about how it feels to be experiencing this and how to cope with what's ahead (IVF or donor).

Trying not to moan, but feeling pretty rough still. I struggle to sit down without falling asleep!! and the nausea is still there pretty much 100% of th time. Back to work tomorrow - should be interesting! :wacko:

Mine wasn't a psychologist, just a counsellor, but she very much just let me talk and just gave input when appropriate. She let me work a lot of it out myself just by talking it through, but was also very supportive. I hope it goes well xx


----------



## Deb111

Mercury - that's good news they found some and the mobility doesn't matter if they're doing ICSI. It's scary when they talk about such low numbers as 'normal' males make thousands in every heartbeat, but you really don't ned many. We only got 30-40 in a mTESE op, but it was enough. It's quality not quantity that matters! :winkwink:


----------



## cosita

Deb111 said:


> Hi rdleela and welcome :flower:
> 
> 
> 
> It frustrates me that so many couples are having to wait so long for biopsy results. I wonder if they are being frozen and looked at later? because when we had our biopsy on the NHS, they told hubby whilst they were still doing the procedure that they had found one healthy motile one and we had the full results within 3 hours. Then when he had the private mTESE, the wouldn't take me down for EC until they had confirmation that they had sperm so we knew within 2 hours. It just seems cruel to keep people waiting so long :nope:

Hi Deb, we are going tomorrow for biopsy results after 3 weeks (although we could have gotten them last week but we were away). I understand that they send the sample away (to a different clinic) to try to get to the root of the problem. They did tell my DH after the proceedure that there was sperm but they didn't do a count. I guess they need to study it, especially when there are no hormonal or apparent blockage issues, which is our case. I´ll let you know more tomorrow as I'll be sure to ask him what took them so long!


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## Deb111

cosita said:


> I´ll let you know more tomorrow as I'll be sure to ask him what took them so long!

:winkwink:

With our NHS SSR they took 3 samples and kept 95% of the tissue to look for sperm and sent the other 5% to pathology for more info. We got the report back from them after about 3 weeks and had been told that if they found any in that 5%, they wouldn't be able to freeze them. But the 95% was looked at there and then. I guess they do things differently, even throughout the UK,

Good luck for tomorrow xx


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## Stinas

Mercury - Thats wonderful news!!! Heck, anything is better than completely zero like they all tell us at first! Good luck!


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- Not a must at this point, but we went through a really difficult patch in March and I want to avoid falling in a pit like that again. We're newlyweds too (last July) and I figure with a smaller foundation than people who have been married awhile, it would be a good idea to talk some of it out. My husband is Catholic and struggles with some of the aspects of IVF and donor sperm. D.S. is going to be our plan B and we want to talk a tiny bit about it too. If we do the donor route, we will have to see the psych. We may be facing big questions about treatment, donor vs. TESE, etc... My husband is already 43 and we don't want to have to wait another year for IVF. 

Deb- When I was pregnant with my son, four years ago, I was really sick. I had to take diclectin to help me cope. It's really tough, but usually after the first trimester, it gets so much better with energy and nausea for most.

cosita- Good luck! I hope you get good news!

Mercury1- I hope you get good numbers! I had to wait about 10 weeks for our genetic results and I hated the wait. My husband also had surgery as a child and my gut tells me that is what caused his azoo.

I hope everyone had a great day!


----------



## Stinas

Canadian - I totally understand!! If i was that early on in my marriage I would go as well. DH and I have been together for almost 11yrs, this month married for 2yrs, so I guess its a bit easier for us to deal with things since we have been through quite a few things all these years. No matter the years though, men are men and when dealing with something like this, something that makes them feel less of a man, there will always be a lot of issues....i think everyone should talk to someone, at least once. DH is stubborn...and likes to keep it all in, so in ways thats my struggle, but over the years I have learned how to ease it out of him with out letting him realize he told me how he feels lol Men are so dumb sometimes. haha 
All I suggest is that you should not let this hurt your marriage...as hard as it sounds. You both feel in love with each other, not your reproductive systems. Of course having a baby usually comes after the marriage, but we are the ones that have to take the detour route. Dont worry...dh will eventually come around. WE are here when you need to vent!


----------



## Mercury1

> No matter the years though, men are men and when dealing with something like this, something that makes them feel less of a man, there will always be a lot of issues....i think everyone should talk to someone, at least once. DH is stubborn...and likes to keep it all in, so in ways thats my struggle, but over the years I have learned how to ease it out of him with out letting him realize he told me how he feels lol Men are so dumb sometimes. haha

Stinas - my OH is very into talking about emotions and being open (he's been in psychotherapy for several years and thinking about retraining himself) and used to tell me I need to talk about my feelings more, but when it comes to this subject he's EXACTLY like you've described! Sometimes he brings it up but then tells me to stop going on about it!!:shrug: It's such a difficult thing. Thanks for the good wishes for the sperm numbers ... still a very long journey, but nice to have a small bit of hope.

Canadian - I hope you two are in a positive place at the moment, it sounds like you are after a difficult time before. 

Cosita - lots of luck for today, I hope it's good news.


----------



## Stinas

Ttc in any form is a hard thing to go through. I have only known about the azoospermia for 2weeks Tom, but I have been on the ttc crazy train for a year and a half. It's beyond stressful. Knowing its azoo now just puts things more into prospective. If you are not strong it will crush you. Having a baby means the world to me, but I wouldn't want to lose the one I committed to spending my life with and sharing that world with over. After a whole things fall into place no matter how bumpy the road may be before that. That bumpy road sucks beyond belief, but the end is worth it. 
I keep telling myself this and it helps, but I won't call the kettle black, I do tell myself to shut the f up one those bad miserable days. It's normal.


----------



## Luvoboe

Hi all,
Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm feeling a little better. I'm going to have to take a few minutes to catch up on what I've missed. 
I just wanted to take the time to share a slightly embarrasing moment in the hopes that it can put a smile on someone's face.
I work as a nanny and I was talking to my boss about how her baby is so active. We are speculating that she may be an early walker. I then said that thinner babies tend to have better motility. Erm. I mean mobility than chubbier babies. I guess I have sperm on the brain a little more than I expected! Hopefully the mom didn't think sperm counts also! Speaking of which, we go in for another analysis in a month.


----------



## cosita

Hi girls, 
Thanks for all your good wishes. Unfortunately we didn't get the news we had hoped for but its not all bad either. They found sperm, not a huge amount but enough to work with. But the motility is zero. I had thought this wasnt a problem with ICSI but doc said they have no guarantee that it will fertilise and the only way to know this is to do ICSI. I hadn't heard of this before and we were completely surprised...or horrified. Basically it can go either way. I feel as if we are in the same position as before the biopsy. It can go either way. So we told him we were ready to go ahead with ICSI and then the next setback came along....
We are in Spain, my husband is a civil servant and they get special 'priviledges'. One being that their health care is a body of its own and at public prices they get private care and also many extras. I pay public insurance and in Spain this entitles you to 3 cycles of IVF/ICSI. Private entitles you to 4. 
Until this point we were led to believe that, being a married couple, and reproduction being something we do together, we were both entitled to what our partners are, meaning that its the couple that recieves the treatment. Not the individual. Doctors had told us this and lots of heresay. Well it seems not. While female civil servants are entitled to 4 cycles and meds, the spouses of male civil servants are not. 
So we have to pay or what the 18 months. I know we are very lucky to live in a country where this is done on public health but its so unfair!!!!
Meeting IVF specialist on May 7th to see what nxt step is. We are going to pay for one cycle at least cos cannot wait for 18months to see is sperm is usable or not!!
So now we have to get our heads around all of this, wait until nxt appt and hope we can be patient!


----------



## cosita

By the way Deb, I didn't ask what took so long to get results! They send it away and study it in detail but dunno why cos they still can't tell us where the problem is!
Thanks for being there girls.


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## Deb111

Cosita, I'm sorry it's not all good news. Thinking back to our NHS op, I now remember them saying that one wasn't moving and they had no way of knowing whether that one was alove or dead - I guess that's what they're talking about with the 0 motility

Luvoboe - good to see you back and glad you're feeling a little better. Love the story :dohh:


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi Gals! 

Its me again! 

Sorry for being MIA of late. 

So sorry to see all you newbies, I really am, but it is a good place to be, with a whole lot of support. 

If I can help anyone with any questions, give me a shout. 
Basically to give you all an idea of my situation. 
My OH and I had been TTC for almost 2 years when my OH decided to get tested - he said himself he wanted to be eliminated - he was convinced I was the one with the issue. His SA was ZERO, he had several, all zero. He was put on antibiotics, he had ultrasounds, they took tissue samples, all with horrible results, ZERO sperm. basically, he had surgery years ago and his reproductive system was damaged - his tubes were blocked with scar tissue and even though they thought they might be able to do something, in January of this year, a year after his initial test, we got the final news to say there was nothing they could do :( 

We were willing to do what was necessary to have my OH's biological children, IVF etc. we had spoken about donor sperm etc, but I spose if Im honest, I dont think either of us thought it would be a reality. 

TIPS for you girls with difficult husbands! I don't mean difficult but it is so hard for them to talk about it and such a rollercoaster for them. (let alone us) My OH hated me bringing it up, I guess my timing was never right and he would become annoyed. So what I started doing is saying. I want to discuss something with you, will we set some time aside in a couple of days time, 1/2 an hour or an hour. This really worked, as he was set up for it and he knew there was an END to my conversation - HAHA. 

We are going ahead with donor sperm, it did take a while for my OH to be ok with this, but time really helps. Dont think your OH's are not researching as my OH did alot of this, quietly and privately, without me realising, its all about them dealing with it in their own way. 

So at this stage, I am having IUI (with donor) on my next cycle - in May - in the past year I never thought I would be so happy to be going down this route as all I felt was sadness, but we are genuinely happy. We know this is the way we are meant to have our babies and once we do have (please god) it will not matter biologially. 

If any of you have any questions, if I can help in any way, let me know. As you will see from previous posts, us oldies have been through all sorts of emotions and madness and have a good idea of how you are all feeling and I am sure I will be here soon, like a hormonal emotional freak who will need your support too :) 

ps sorry for rambling, i have a couple of months to make up for :)


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## cosita

Hello again, 
Deb I&#7743; not sure if he meant they were dead, I think the bio analysis would have picked that up?? 
Wanbmum, thank you so much for your message, it was just what I needed today. Time is the best thing in every situation, I forgot that for a while today. Thanks for reminding me. I am so happy you and DH are so happy. Its such a great boost for everyone!


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## WANBMUM

Cosita - your welcome - I know its such a cliche - but time really is everything -boy do we know it on this road!! If this whole process doesnt make us patient I dont know what will.
I can't really help with your motiliy questions as we had nothing showing up. But as everyone kept saying, like eggs- it only takes 1 - 1 good one anyway. 
What is next for you? How often does your OH have to go back?

What I found the hardest at the time, was WAITING for the next appointment, some were months away, which I found head wrecking - but looking back - as much as I wouldn't believe - the time really helped us as a couple to come to terms with things and not to have it all on top of us. 
Have you had tests done yourself?


----------



## Stinas

Luvoboe - That is too funny!!!! I honestly think we all have sperm on our brains....all the time...its all I think about. 

cosita - I wouldnt want to wait that long either! I hope it all works out for you guys! No matter where you live all healthcare sucks!

WANBMUM - Thank you very much for sharing your story with us newbies! Your OH sounds like mine. I guess it does get better with time. Happy to hear your this much closer to getting a baby!


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## raelynn

Cosita, will they let you do another TESE as backup if the frozen sperm don't work with ICSI? I know for us, they found a few in 3 of hubby's samples so when we finally get to egg retrieval day, they will have our urologist on standby in case the frozen sperm don't survive the defrost. The urologist will perform another TESE and hope to find sperm in the same places he did before. We're of course keeping our fingers crossed that the frozen ones work but it is nice to have a backup plan just in case.


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## Step Mummy

cosita said:


> By the way Deb, I didn't ask what took so long to get results! They send it away and study it in detail but dunno why cos they still can't tell us where the problem is!
> Thanks for being there girls.

We had the same, they did the SSR, told us they found "Nothing" at all, but had sent it away for further examination, mainly I understand now, because my DH was such a medical mystery because he had a 20 year old son, so how could he now have no sperm, all he has is the start of them growing then they die! No other symptoms, nothing on bloods etc. And to this day - and year and a half later, we still don't have a reason why, all we know is "we will not be one of the miracle couples who have a baby naturally" so I was told. Doesn't stop me dreaming though!


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## Step Mummy

WANBMUM said:


> Hi Gals!
> 
> We are going ahead with donor sperm, it did take a while for my OH to be ok with this, but time really helps. Dont think your OH's are not researching as my OH did alot of this, quietly and privately, without me realising, its all about them dealing with it in their own way.
> 
> So at this stage, I am having IUI (with donor) on my next cycle - in May - in the past year I never thought I would be so happy to be going down this route as all I felt was sadness, but we are genuinely happy. We know this is the way we are meant to have our babies and once we do have (please god) it will not matter biologially.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Hi wanbmum, I am glad you have both finally come to terms with it, for some of us it does take a long time. My DH was fine with it - I think he just wanted to give me what I wanted and this was the only way - but for me I struggled, we have been together for 10 years and all that time I wanted his baby, just to look like him - like his son does - his son is the mirror image of him! so he was ready to go for it straight away. it took me 1 year to come to terms with and actually be able to start doing the IUI-D, I could not come to terms with not having his child staring back at me. In a way I still can't but I am doing what I have to, but each day I still think "This is not what I want to be doing - at all" and I can't shift that, I just try to think past this, it will be all right once the baby is here, I will be so preocupied with love I will forget all about it. At the end of the day, I still just want to have my DH's abby and that's all there is to it. No amount of time seems to remove this pain (we are now 20 months after SSR).
> 
> GL to you, I hope your first IUI-D works for you.


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## cosita

Thank you all girls, 
I just reading back the report again and I remember the doctor said that its all quite normal, just no motility. Which I don't think means they are dead right? 
Raelynn-They didn't freeze, our doc thinks its better to use fresh, so when we start the cycle they will do another biopsy. 
Wanbmum-Our next appt is on the 7th of May with IVF specialist, until now we have been with andrologist. 
I am fine, all my tests came back great so if it did come to using ds, it wouldn't need to be IVF right? Is that a personal choice? An economic choice? Those of you who have went down that road could you give me some insight?
Thanks girls.


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## deafgal01

Finally got blood work back. Levels all look good.

Deb- please update my status on 1st page, 4th blood work finally show good levels on the meds so next update will be a dick check on June 15th.


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## raelynn

cosita said:


> I am fine, all my tests came back great so if it did come to using ds, it wouldn't need to be IVF right? Is that a personal choice? An economic choice? Those of you who have went down that road could you give me some insight?
> Thanks girls.

We're not going down the donor route (for now) but I did ask our fertility center about this and they said it wouldn't require IVF just IUI.


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## silverbell

rdleela said:


> DH had a testicular biopsy done this morning! :) Did not get any opinion from doctor on what he saw in tissue sample, so we just have to wait a couple of weeks to find out.

Welcome, rdleela. Sorry you have found yourself here, but you'll get lots of support here for sure. I do hope the results are good for you both :hugs: 



Mercury1 said:


> Trying to stay realistic though. Still haven't had the genetic results back. The urologist implied that they should be OK as the cause seems to be the surgery as a child, which was quite late. But a friend of mine who's a reproductive scientist said that as undescended testicles aren't normal, there could be an underlying genetic reason for that to have happened in the first place :shrug:

Mercury - sounds very positive - great stuff! I do hope everything works out well for you both.



cosita said:


> So now we have to get our heads around all of this, wait until nxt appt and hope we can be patient!

Cosita, I'm so sorry it wasn't as good news as it could have been (but at least there was something happening). Looks like you're back in the dreaded azoo limbo :nope: I hope something gets sorted for you both quickly.



WANBMUM said:


> So at this stage, I am having IUI (with donor) on my next cycle - in May - in the past year I never thought I would be so happy to be going down this route as all I felt was sadness, but we are genuinely happy. We know this is the way we are meant to have our babies and once we do have (please god) it will not matter biologially.

Hey wanbmum. I'm so pleased you're both happy with donor sperm now and that your first try is so very soon. I really do hope you get lucky first time. We felt the same when we were trying last cycle. You finally get a chance to be excited after so long waiting and waiting and dealing with disappointment and upset. It feels amazing when you first start and you realise you could really, for the first time ever, get pregnant. Thinking lucky thoughts for you :hugs:


Hope everybody else is OK x


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## Step Mummy

cosita said:


> I don't think you would need to have full IVF if you are in good health, I have the all clear too and am having IUI-D which is obviously much cheaper and much less involved than IVF, also much more natural - using natural selection of sperm - meaning the strongest swimmer gets the egg, rather than the IVF specialist selecting the swimmer and implanting it.
> 
> We have had 3 IUI-d attempts and are just facing the IVF route if another 2 IUI goes fail, but this go we have new a donor, so FX, but I am unhappy about going for full IVF for many reasons, I believe that you just need to keep going and eventually it will happen - a bit like those who do it naturally - "normal" people don't get PG the first month they try!
> 
> GL whichever route you chose.


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## BumpHopes

Hi all i haven't posted in a while as i have nothing new to add. Just want to say i wish you all luck and am stalking and will msg s soon as theres something to update xx


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## Deb111

Lovely to see you Bumphopes - hope to have some updates from you soon. Limbo land is not the nicest place to be :nope: xx


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## Stinas

Hi ladies...
Just a small update here...DH second SA results came in today...no shock...same as before. This urologist has now sent us to another urologist who specializes in azoo. We have an apt with him May 8. Funny thing is DH originally had an apt with this doc on the 27th of this month, but we wanted an apt asap, so went with the other doc. Only our luck. 
Hopefully this doc will find the root of the problem and give us more answers. One good thing is that he works with the fertility center we plan to use when the time comes. He did his last SA there and asked what urologist they recommend and it happens to be the doc the other urologist is sending us to. 
So I guess now the official waiting for appointments begins! May 8 seems far, but then again, not that far I guess. 

Deb I dont know if you want to put that up on the first page? May 8 specialist apt?


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## WANBMUM

Step Mummy said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Hi wanbmum, I am glad you have both finally come to terms with it, for some of us it does take a long time. My DH was fine with it - I think he just wanted to give me what I wanted and this was the only way - but for me I struggled, we have been together for 10 years and all that time I wanted his baby, just to look like him - like his son does - his son is the mirror image of him! so he was ready to go for it straight away. it took me 1 year to come to terms with and actually be able to start doing the IUI-D, I could not come to terms with not having his child staring back at me. In a way I still can't but I am doing what I have to, but each day I still think "This is not what I want to be doing - at all" and I can't shift that, I just try to think past this, it will be all right once the baby is here, I will be so preocupied with love I will forget all about it. At the end of the day, I still just want to have my DH's abby and that's all there is to it. No amount of time seems to remove this pain (we are now 20 months after SSR).
> 
> GL to you, I hope your first IUI-D works for you.
> 
> Stepmummy I agree, I dont think we will ever ever get away from the reality that we wanted to have a baby that looks like our OH's. Like you, it is all I have ever wanted, from the first day we met I thought, wow would he make good looking gorgeous babies and it still breaks my heart to think I will never have his baby! :) But that is not to be, I will never forget but I do believe once we see our precious babies and see our husbands with them and how happy they are, it will become a feeling that is there but one that doesnt matter. I read a sperm donor story where a couple had a little girl who was 3 years old and her husband recently said to her that he was happy he couldnt have his own bio children, because if he could, this little girl who he loved and adored, would not be in their lives. That will be the reality, when we have our babies, that will be important and everything else wont matter. :)Click to expand...


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## WANBMUM

Stinas, 
fingers crossed you will get some answers at your next app. 
have u any idea what the issue may be? has your OH ever had any surgeries/issues?
Hopefully it will be something small that can be fixed, stay strong and try to keep busy until the appt xx


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## Stinas

WANBMUM - you could not have said it any better!!! 
My god parents could not have children as well (my godfather actually...from the stories i have heard it sounds like azoo, but i doubt they treated it properly 30yrs ago). They ended up going to Europe to adopt....thousands upon thousands of dollars spent in the US to adopt and could not...they found a precious baby girl and brought her back to NY 6 months later.......let me tell you......this girl looks EXACTLY like my godparents...TO THE T! Shes a bit of a wild teen now, which probably was from her biological parents(teen parents)....but everything else is all my god parents. I really do believe the baby molds into their parents.


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## Stinas

WANBMUM said:


> Stinas,
> fingers crossed you will get some answers at your next app.
> have u any idea what the issue may be? has your OH ever had any surgeries/issues?
> Hopefully it will be something small that can be fixed, stay strong and try to keep busy until the appt xx

Thank you!
This urologist said its most likely a blockage. He found some extra veins which "could" be causing it. Further testing will have to confirm it. 
DH has never had any illness or surgery down there, so that as well as all his bloodwork coming out normal leads to a blockage...but i guess until they do a biopsy or a scan they wont know for sure. 
I am just praying for sperm being stuck in there. We are trying to keep busy until then. Trying to keep it off your mind, but you know just as well how hard that is.


----------



## WANBMUM

Great story - Yes it is very true. I know our babies (all 6 of them, ha, dont tell my OH) will not look like my OH but they will inherit his amazng personality, wisdom, outlooks and that is way more important than a set of eyes! 

Oh I hear ya, trying to keep busy is alot easier said than done. My specialist warned me to stay positive and try not to think about the whole thing too much, not to let it exume my life! YA RIGHT!! although i will try not to. 

All you need to know is if he is producing, because once he is, you can go in and get the little freckers out! :) When my OH was going for all the tests, the specialist said the best outcome would be a blockage, as they are so easy to fix - so fingers crossed.


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## Stinas

What happened exactly with your OH? I mix up everyones story...i read almost every page in this thread, but my memory jumbles them all up lol 

I hope its a block...the urologist said the same thing...its easy fix if he is producing sperm. Im praying for that. I dont think he will do the donor route. I bring it up here and there, but one day he jokes about it, and the other he completely opposes it. Its still all new to us, so i guess with time we will figure everything out. I think we are making good progress for 2 weeks of knowing that he has azoo.


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## cosita

Hey there again, 
I was explaining last week (rather badly) the outcome of DH's biopsy. For the newbies I´ll explain our situation up til now, as I see a lot of you are around the stage of not knowing the reason. 
In november we got our first SA results (1 immotile sperm). The urologist referred us to an andrologist. Second SA, less than 2 million but all the % were zero, so we were never quite clear on whether that was zero or not. Then DH went on vits for 3 months. I forgot to mention, all blood tests were coming back normal. Third SA was in early feb, zero. So thats when the doc thought maybe a biopsy was the only way but at the same time he gave him an antibiotic just in case it was a hidden infection. So about a month ago he did the biopsy and sperm was found.:happydance: The proceedure went fine and he healed perfectly. 
So last week we went to get more extensive results of the biopsy. They didn't do a count or anything, he said few were found but it was plenty, no need to go to second testicle. Their motility is zero however and the only way to know if they can fertilize is by doing ICSI. Some of you had mentioned that perhaps they are dead. This isn't the case. I hadn't even wanted to mention this to DH but last night I asked him. (I live in Spain, am a fluent Spanish speaker but sometimes things get lost on me) So indeed I had missed some of the docs explanation:dohh:. They are premature sperm. They don't know why they don't complete development. The report says 'almost completely mature' and in 'advanced stages of maduration'. So, I feel a little bit better, but as I my DH explained to me (and made me cry by his sensitivity) is that they are like premature babies, you just don't know if they will go on to grow or not. This hit home as a friend of mine had a baby at 25 weeks, now he is two!! I had been so down all week but now my hope is back! 
So on to next appt with ICSI specialist on May 7th. 
Have a good weekend girls. :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Front page updated with your appts Stinas and Cosita :thumbup:

Stinas - you definitely have got a long way in 2 weeks :thumbup:

Cosita - how confusing for you, but great news that they found plenty for what you need - that's certainly a good start. It fascinates me that although we all have an azoo diagnosis, everyone of our cases seems so different.

Hope everyone else is doind ok xx


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## tigerlily1975

Hello lovelies :hi:

I'm so sorry for not popping up lately, I've been in a real funk and just didn't want to bring my bad vibes into this lovely forum.

I hope you're all well and are having a good weekend.

Well, we're off to Hammersmith hospital for DH's TESE on Monday and we're both getting nervous now. Can I ask a quick question; do we need to take anything with us? Should I pack a dressing gown and slippers for him? Also, could your partner wear boxers/bottoms afterwards? I think I'm just trying to keep busy, if you know what I mean.

I think our hospital is getting a bit confused (what's new with the NHS!), but we had a letter through for our IVF Cycles Appointment for the following day.... ??? I called them and explained "err, my husband is only having the surgery the day before..", they couldn't find a record of his op follow-up appointment (we have it as the 16th May) and the lady on the phone said "you can't let the IVF appointment go, they're like GOLD DUST!!", so we have now rescheduled it for a week later. So, we now have an IVF cycle appointment a week after the operation and two weeks before the result appointment... I'm so confused. 

I'm so sorry for the ME post, but I'm just all over the place at the moment - you all know EXACTLY how I feel. I just want to know... although I also DON'T want to know. Can they just let us know if it's good news and if it's bad erase that part of my memory. Thanks. 

Okay, I'm going to clean the kitchen cupboards. I need to do something. I must be desperate!

Much love and :hugs: :hugs: to all of you as always.

C xx


----------



## Deb111

Hi Tiger

Lovely to see you :flower:

It really is one of the hardest times, being so close to the TESE and you're right; those of us who have been there TOTALLY understand the 'desperately want to know and really don't!'.

As it's at Hammersmith - is it Mr Ramsey doing the op? My memory is not very good - sorry!!!

In terms of what to take with you on the day - slippers, dressing gown, tight fitting briefs (he will need firm support for a good few days after the op - they are likely to give him some sort of support, but also advise you take something with you), might also be worth taking a pillow or cushion with you for the journey home in case he's uncomfortable - first op hubby had, he could have done with one, 2nd one he was fine

Sending you nothing but positive vibes for Monday xx


----------



## Stinas

Cosita - thanks for sharing your story!!! It's hard to piece everyone together. I could only imagine how confusing they make things. Appointments normally are, but these just frustrate us even more. It's great they found plenty of sperm!!! That's exciting!! 

Deb - I agree. Everyone's stories are totally different and all our treatments seem to be different. Very interesting. So we are doing good for knowing for so little time? I'm a very anxious person, I just want to know and fix it now....even though I know it won't be so easy. 

Tiger - good luck with the surgery. With time you will feel better. I would also love to erase it all from my memory. It feels like a crazy bad dream that has just started for me. So I can imagine what it's like as time goes by. Best of luck Monday and I'll be thinking of you!!

I have been making DH take 1000 vitamin c daily for a while now....even after finding out about azoo....he does not want to take them anymore ...but I have hope there is sperm in there...could it still help if they are in there? It's not like the vitamins are harmful to him....men are such babies.


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## Deb111

Stinas - our NHS urologist said it 'couldn't hurt' - we choose to delay hubby's SSR until he'd been on the vits a full 3 months.

Private urologist said yes without question. Obviously if there's none being made, it wont make a difference, but it's all about makiing sure the environment for sperm production is as good as it can be if he is making some so that you get the best quality sperm possible to work with x


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## tigerlily1975

Deb: Thank you so much. As always you are a wealth of support and information - what would we do without you?? It's quite confusing; we're under Queen Charlotte's, but it's linked to Hammersmith, so they will perform the surgery there. We're not under Mr Ramsey, but we've already discussed contacting him privately if we don't get the result we're hoping for. That's a good idea about the pillow, I would never have thought of that! I hope you and the little bump are doing well :hugs:

Stinas: Thank you! It really is like a bad dream, isn't it? I know exactly what you mean re: vitamins. I have a real struggle getting DH to take zinc, you'd think I was asking him to take a cyanide capsule! :hugs:

I hope everyone else is good. We're off out for one of our walks near the Thames - making the most of it, as I don't think DH will be walk far over the next week or so.

:hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## Deb111

We're doing fine thanks Tiger. We have our 12 week (plus a few days) scan on Wednesday and the NT test xx


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## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> We're doing fine thanks Tiger. We have our 12 week (plus a few days) scan on Wednesday and the NT test xx

Oh wow! That's so exciting! Ah, you've a little 'plum' now, too cute!!

:hugs:

C xx


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## Deb111

Just stopping by with more good luck wishes for you and dh tomorrow Tiger. When will you know if and what they've found? xx


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## raelynn

Deb - Can you add me to the front page too please? We'll be doing IVF in June/July.


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## deafgal01

Good luck Tiger!


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## Stinas

Tiger - I'm telling you, all men are the same. Big baby's lol. I wish you best of luck Tom!! We will all be thinking of you!!! 

Raelynn - just noticed we have been ttc same amount of time!! I'm a few months behind you in finding out about azoo.


Af should be here any minute....nice in my face reminder of azoo. Sometimes, very briefly, extremely briefly, I forget about it....Like we are normal....but then reality sets in pretty quickly.


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## raelynn

Stinas said:


> Raelynn - just noticed we have been ttc same amount of time!! I'm a few months behind you in finding out about azoo.

It feels like forever doesn't it? Unfortunately, I think I've gotten used to all the waiting because I just recently thought about how much time has actually gone by and it kind of shocked me. Its funny to think how my initial plans of when we'd have a baby by have flown out the window. But at least we're moving forward!

Tiger - Best of luck!!

As for me, still trying to be patient and wait for AF to get here. While I know I need to be patient because it would be too early if AF showed now, I'm still finding it hard to wait around knowing that we're about to actually start IVF soon.


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## MJ73

Hi Girls,
I'll pop on & do personals later, but I just want to update you all, I have been following along & cheering everyone on from the sidelines:wohoo:. I hope you dont mind if I C&P from my journal.

Sorry I haven't been on for a while, I've been a bit down to be honest & sometimes I feel like I'm being so negative. Last Tuesday's appointment didn't go as well as we'd hoped. The specialist was lovely. But we walked in & he said that "We have quite a serious problem here, don't we...?" He spent about 40 minutes with us & explained that it could very well be cancer & that the tumour marker tests only apply to certain cancers & that there are a couple of cancers that don't show up positive for tumour markers. He has put Simon on a really strong antibiotic on the "off chance" that it may be an infection showing up (he doesn't think it is). He wants Simon to have a CT to find the undescended testicle as it is "at a greatly increased risk of cancer". And another ultrasound after 2 weeks on this antibiotic to see if the dark mass still shows up on ultrasound. I've been trying not to borrow trouble & take one day at a time but it is just so hard. We talked to him about our fertility issues & he said that if he had any thoughts at all that it is cancer then all fertility treatments using Simon's sperm would be at an end. It is too dangerous to do TESE or biopsy as they risk spreading cancer cells to the surrounding skin. If the testicle needs to be removed they go in through another way apparently...

Anyway, :hugs:to all. Will pop in later & do personals.


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## Stinas

MJ73 - Im sorry for the bad news!! We are here for you to vent! I hope things turn around somehow!


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## tigerlily1975

Hello lovely ladies :hi:

Thank you so much for all the support and good luck messages, it was and is always really appreciated :hugs:

Well, it seems it went well yesterday and we were told that they found some on the second incision - meaning DH's right testicle avoided the scalpel. They had an embryologist on hand, his job was to run up to the lab and take a look at the tissue samples and if they found sperm they would stop. We don't know if they are usable, but we're assuming they would have continued it they weren't. So, we've got over one hurdle, but are remaining calm until we know more. 

We've the IVF planning appointment next Tuesday, but we're not sure if they'll have the full results then, but things are starting to move now... after all this time! It's just good to have DH home and well, that's the main thing.

MJ: :hugs: I'm so very sorry to hear your news, hun. I will keep everything crossed that's it's nothing sinister and that it's a infection that the antibiotics can kill off. We're here if you need support or just to vent. :hugs: :hugs:

Thanks again, lovelies.

:hugs:

C xx


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## silverbell

tigerlily - so glad all went well yesterday and it does sound very promising. I hope they can tell you something next Tuesday, even if it's not the full results.

Cosita - that sounds more promising than it first sounded. I really do hope that fertilisation happens easily when the time comes.

Stinas - I'm sorry the second SA came back zero. It was no shock to us either, despite us kind of hoping they'd made a mistake at the lab :blush: May 8 is really close (even if it doesn't feel like it). It's May next week :dance:

MJ - I'm so sorry. You guys must be all over the place. I do hope that you get to the bottom of what's going on really soon and hoping and praying it's nothing serious. :hugs:


It's my second IUI tomorrow :dance: This cycle has been a million times better than the first. Follies growing normally (looks like I may get 2 released, in fact). 2ww here I come!


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## snd80

Tiger-Sounds great! Hope everything starts rolling along soon!!!

MJ- I am sooo sorry doll! As if you haven't been through enough as it is! My heart is with you and your dh! I swear it is always something!!! Hugs!!!!!!!!

SB! I am so excited for you! Hopefully this one will be the lucky one!!! Eeek!

To everyone else I missed, great big hugs to you all!

Sorry I haven't been on in a minute, but I have been watching everyone from the side lines. Nothing has changed on my end. Just patiently waiting on the 30th to come. Hopefully my scan will show my good side is producing and we can go for our 1st try that week! TBH, I am excited and scared to death at the same time! I seems like it took forever to get to this point, and now I almost feel unprepared (even though I really am)! I set myself into a panic the other night just thinking about it all... thinking that the donor we chose turned in his contact eye color instead of his natural eye color and we would wind up with a brown eyed child with no explaination; crap like that! But that is just me over-analizing everything as usual. On a good note though, I have now lost 11.5 lbs since Valentines day, and drum roll.... dropped 3 pants sizes! I was floored! Hey, at least I will have clothes if/when I do get pg, right?! LOL!

Hope everyone else is having a great day!


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## Deb111

Tiger - great news so far - hope the news continues to be good! Glad it sounds like dh is doing ok :thumbup:

SB - so excited for you :happydance:

Snd - fab news on the weight loss :happydance:

MJ - thinking of you and dh xx


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## wibble wobble

Hey all

Mj23 thinking of you hope the antibiotics is all your DH needs

Snd your doing great on the weight loss, I kind of stagnated it got to easter and the chocolate got a fix on me!! started on my exercise bike again.... my ass hurts but I feel great for it!!

Silverbell hope all goes well with the iui fc for twins

Tiger good luck for tuesday

afm today I found out that the clinic have 2 possible matches for me :) I'm waiting for a letter with a pen picture of them to choose from (all I know so far is they both weigh the same,are the same height, one has brown eyes the other blue,one has dark brown hair the other light brown. I know blood groups but that doesn't interest me.

then I just need to make my choice ring the co ordinator and she'll do the necessary forms for allocation, then I just ring on day 1 of my next AF so they can order drugs ready for cd23. I'm just hoping now it can all be sorted before cd1 which is due anytime from sunday

It's happened so much quicker than I thought :)


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## Stinas

tigerlily1975 - thats good news so far!! Things are running smoothly so far!!! 

silverbell - Yay for second IUI!!!! Glad to hear this cycle feels better than the rest!! Thats a good sign! I think we all thought this could be a mistake diagnosis when we all found out...heck....we all prayed for a mistake!!! Im glad I prepared myself for the same results...so it was not a shock at all. I cant believe its May in a few days...its crazy! I am just hoping for good things to come...no more let downs. 

snd80 - WOW...you go girl!!!! Losing weight is hard enough, but under the stress of all this azoo stuff makes its harder...so good for you!!! I know its hard, but dont panic about your choice in donor...it will all be ok. I truly believe the baby ends up morphing into its parents/the people who raise it. Everything will be ok...and you know what...even if the baby looks nothing like either of you(which even with a biological baby it sometimes does not)....you dont need to explain to anyone! Just as long as you love and care for the baby thats all that matters in the world.

wibble wobble - Thats great news!!!


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## raelynn

Tiger - That is great news! I guess you'll be joining those of us just waiting to get started on IVF very soon!

SB - Good luck! Hope everything goes perfectly this round!

Snd - Congrats on the weight loss! That is incredible! Don't worry yourself to death over things getting closer! Its weird after all the waiting to finally be about to start something but that is really exciting!

Deb - How are things going? Hoping everything is great with your little bean!

MJ - My thoughts and prayers are with you and your DH. Hopefully everything turns for the better very soon!

wibble wobble - That is so exciting that things are starting to move forward! Hopefully they can get everything together before AF comes. I know how hard having to wait even more would be!

As for me - I'm still in the waiting game for AF so we can get things moving along for IVF. I picked up the birth control prescription and now it is just more waiting for this cycle to end. I'm ready to go! I've been using the waiting time to get on a healthy diet and exercise plan. I'm really low carb and low sugar right now to help with my PCOS but I'll gradually up the carbs the closer we get to baby making time. I started a running program too and discovered I really love running! Well not while I'm actually doing it but one I'm done I feel great! I've lost 5lbs so far which is awesome because it has been near impossible to lose weight with PCOS.


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## Stinas

raelynn - Thats great!!! 5lbs!!! Yay!! I feel like its hard for any woman to lose weight...and if its not...I want to know their secret! lol I hope AF shows up for you soon!...but your really close already!


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## raelynn

Stinas said:


> raelynn - Thats great!!! 5lbs!!! Yay!! I feel like its hard for any woman to lose weight...and if its not...I want to know their secret! lol I hope AF shows up for you soon!...but your really close already!

Thanks stinas! I know that I ideally need AF to continue holding off for a little while so timing is right for when they can do another TESE on hubby if they need to but the waiting is so hard. Especially when we're so close to finally moving forward!

It is really hard to lose weight in general and PCOS is known for helping you keep the weight on so I am super excited for those 5 lbs! I worked my butt off for them :)

How are things going for you??


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## deafgal01

Silverbells- good luck with the second iui. :thumbup:


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## wibble wobble

So I've got my letter with my 2 matches :happydance: , one sounds so much like my hubby that I'm tempted to ring now and say he's the one he's my babies daddy!!! But I'll have to at least let hubby feel like he's involved in the decision :huh:

It'll be icsi we're having, if we want ivf then it's another year to wait for sperm and I really can't do that to myself :nope: We would of been having icsi if the tese had been a success so it doesn't really make a difference... the nurse said that even if we said ivf only it could get to the day and the sample we get may only be good enough for icsi anyway so why wait longer I think I've waited long enough.

Silverbell hope today went well :hugs:


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## snd80

:happydance: You go rae!!!! I know how it is w/ PCOS and losing weight, not easy! My whole life consists of work and the gym. That's it! But I have found that my hunger is slowly going away too, so it is soooo worth it!

OMG WW! How exciting!!!!! I know you must be on :cloud9:! Soooo happy for you chick!!! Maybe your hubby will pick the one you want as well. A little persuasion won't hurt either if you point out all the similarities to him to boost his confidence! :winkwink:

Wishing SB loads of good luck today!!!!!! :baby:

Stinas- I totally agree with everything you said! I don't owe anyone sh*t! It's my decision and what we want, so that is that! All in all, I still feel like we made the right choice. Sat. I was visiting my mother and my two aunts, and was showing them a pict on my cell phone of the new puppies we have, and my one aunt, who didn't know about the donor situation, was going through my picts on my phone and came up on one of our donor's baby pict I had taken (to show my mom), and asked me "Nikki, who is this baby? Is that Marty when he was a baby? It looks just like him!!!" and right then I knew we chose the right one, brown eyes or not! My mom and my other aunt both looked at me and smiled, so then I had to fill her in... but she is the head labor and delivery RN at the hospital we will be using when the time comes, and will be in the delivery room with us too, so I felt it was only right to tell her. And she was so excited for us! She hugged me and just grinned and promised she would never tell a soul. 

Deb- When do we find out if we have a "niece or nephew"?! :shrug:

Hope everyone else is having a great day!


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## nightdaze

Hi Everyone!
It has been awhile, DH and I were in London for a bit visiting his family and now we are back and getting back to normal life. My brother and his pregnant girlfriend have moved out of our house (thank god...I really couldn't handle being around them) and now we have the house to ourselves for the first time since we bought it and moved in almost 2 years ago! 

It has been 7 weeks since out azoo diagnosis. We still don't have an appointment with the fertility clinic so I have been calling to try to get that sorted out. Apparently the fertility clinic here looks through their referrals and decides who they want to take on and who they think can wait. I'm hoping that our situation is a bit unique and they will take us on but who knows...the system here is incredibly frustrating.

rdleela - you are in Alberta as well?! How did you get a biopsy done so quickly? We weren't able to get an appointment with a urologist until November! Crazy. 

I was so pleased to read about all of the progress on here. We are all just ticking along. Thank you to everyone for being so strong, it is really an inspiration to come on here and read all of your stories.

While were were on holiday things were actually ok. I was feeling alright but as soon as I got back home and went back to work everything came crashing down. I felt like I had got the bad news all over again. I think I have been avoiding the reality of this situation and I sort of feel like I don't know how to move forward. I want us to go down to San Francisco to get the mapping done - at least then we will know if there is any chance of us having out bio babies. If not than we can move on. It is just the not knowing that is killing me. I am not a patient person at all.

But money money money. It all comes down to money. Fertility treatments are not covered at all in my province which makes it pretty difficult. I also get so angry that I am going to have to pay to have a baby when almost everyone else can do it for free. So frustrating. Does this bother anyone else?

Sorry for the rant. Sending lots of love and light to you all.

xo


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## Deb111

Things are good thanks Raelynn - had scan today and the little monkey was bnouncing around all over the place, waving and doing headstands - so much so that they couldn't do the NT downs test :dohh:

Wont know for a few weeks yet Snd - but you girls will be among the first few to know :winkwink: xx


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## wibble wobble

Deb have you heard that most icsi babies are boys? Someone said this to me earlier and wondered if there was any truth in it


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## Deb111

I hadn't heard that WW - I'm off to bed now but will be googling tomorrow :thumbup: I'm inclined to think it might be a boy after it being so awkward this afternoon! :winkwink: xx


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## Stinas

raelynn - I can only imagine how much it sucks with the PCOS...it sucks normally, let alone with something you cant help. You are super close! Im excited for you!!! 
Im good...just in the waiting limbo...but May 8th is right around the corner. DH has been sharing more of his feelings and he knows I want to have the experience of having a baby, so I think he is putting all our options in his head...but its still early for us since we dont know if there is sperm in there. Let just hope there is. Thats what im praying for daily for now. I have hope it will happen. 

wibble wobble - Thats great news!!! Yay!! I wouldnt want to wait the year either. You have been through enough, why wait anymore. 

snd80 - Ohhh thats wonderful that your aunt was soo understanding!!! Thats nice...many people just dont get it. Thats great that you & DH feel it was a perfect match...and your aunt pretty much confirmed it! How exciting! I bet in a way that lifted a bunch of weight off your shoulders. It makes me feel really nice to hear wonderful stories like this. No matter what that baby will be you and DH's at the end of the day...who cares about biological or not. It will be a spoiled little cutie pie! hehe

nightdaze - Im sorry its so hard for you to get an apt! That was my fear, but knock on wood, so far apts have not been a problem, but then again, im still early on in knowing as well. 3 weeks today actually. The insurance thing pisses me off beyond belief!!! My insurance covers some, but im still not sure as to how much. Its awful that they dont always pay for everything. It really sucks that we have to pay for something that people do get for free. Its bad enough to be in this situation, let alone have to shell out thousands....but at the end of the day, its a small price to pay for a bundle of joy. 
Is there any family you can go to for financial help? 

Deb111 - I cant wait to find out what you are having!!! Very exciting!!!


DH & I were watching Juliana & Bill last night and they had a special about surrogates and the differences between them...gestational and all that stuff....very interesting actually...never knew these things. Its wonderful what some people do for others. God bless them...it made me cry how amazing these women were. 
Today is DH & I 2yr wedding Anniversary...he turned to me this am and told me he promised me we WILL have a baby...it made me tear up. Its the only thing on our minds at all times. I cant wait to just find out whats going on. I think no matter what, our men dont feel manly anymore after finding out. DH sex drive went down a bit...which drives me nuts because we had a very active sex life and now its like here and there....i dont appreciate that. Did the same thing happen to you ladies?


----------



## raelynn

Stinas said:


> raelynn - I can only imagine how much it sucks with the PCOS...it sucks normally, let alone with something you cant help. You are super close! Im excited for you!!!
> Im good...just in the waiting limbo...but May 8th is right around the corner. DH has been sharing more of his feelings and he knows I want to have the experience of having a baby, so I think he is putting all our options in his head...but its still early for us since we dont know if there is sperm in there. Let just hope there is. Thats what im praying for daily for now. I have hope it will happen.

May 8th will be here before you know it! I know how tough it is to go through the not knowing phase. We over-analyzed everything so much that hubby and I were convinced going into his TESE that they were going to find nothing. We were all signed up for the donor websites. It was a happy surprise when the urologist came out to tell me they found some. So, there is always a chance! Regardless of how your baby comes to you, it will be loved beyond imagine!!


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## raelynn

Deb - You have a little squirmy monkey! How precious!

snd - PCOS really sucks sometimes doesn't it? Glad your hunger cravings are starting to go away. I just started noticing that mine are lessening. Hopefully they go away for good soon! I've been trying a bunch of new healthy recipes to get me through :)


----------



## rdleela

nightdaze said:


> rdleela - you are in Alberta as well?! How did you get a biopsy done so quickly? We weren't able to get an appointment with a urologist until November! Crazy.

Yes, I'm in Alberta! Are you talking about the Calgary or Edmonton fertility clinic? I'm in rural, northeast Alberta, and if we have to do IVF/ICSI, Edmonton will be closer, but other girls I know have all gone to Calgary; my doctor is referring us to Edm, but if I'm paying for it, I should get to choose, right?

I have no idea how we got in so quickly! We found out no sperm from SA end of January, Dr sent DH for u/s super-quick, then we somehow got snuck into to see Dr. Bochinski from Edmonton. Our appt was originally booked for July 13th, but I guess there was a cancellation! After that appt, we had to wait about 8 weeks to find out when the biopsy would be, which I think was 2 weeks before the biopsy. Still waiting on results from biopsy, which is HORRIBLE. omg I just want to know, already! Sperm or no sperm? Driving me slightly crazy...lol

PM me and we can talk in more detail! I have to admit I am foggy on your deets, so fill me in! I also found a dr in Prince George BC I want to go see as soon as we get the biopsy results back (if sperm), so I can fill you in on that if you'd like!


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## Stinas

raelynn - Thank you so much for the wonderful encouragement! Being in limbo sucks, but like you said, its pretty close. I am preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. Deep down inside i know that sperm is there! They better be! lol 
Did it take long from your first urologist apt to find that out? I dont know whats in store for us when we go to this guy. The regular urologist sent us to him because he specialized in azoo, or I guess works with azoo patients more(dh tried to explain, but you know how men explain things.). I am hoping we dont have to do another SA...i find them pointless at this point. After two 0 SA's, a third wont change.


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## Stinas

rdleela - Hiii!! How are you?! Still in waiting limbo I see! When do you get your results?


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## rdleela

Stinas said:


> rdleela - Hiii!! How are you?! Still in waiting limbo I see! When do you get your results?

ANY day now! I will let you ladies know our biopsy results as soon as I get them! FX'd for some spermies!!!


----------



## raelynn

Stinas said:


> raelynn - Thank you so much for the wonderful encouragement! Being in limbo sucks, but like you said, its pretty close. I am preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. Deep down inside i know that sperm is there! They better be! lol
> Did it take long from your first urologist apt to find that out? I dont know whats in store for us when we go to this guy. The regular urologist sent us to him because he specialized in azoo, or I guess works with azoo patients more(dh tried to explain, but you know how men explain things.). I am hoping we dont have to do another SA...i find them pointless at this point. After two 0 SA's, a third wont change.

I went with hubby to all his appointments because he knew he wouldn't be able to relay the details back to me :laugh2: It was maybe a month between our initial visit and the TESE. Our original plans were to line up the TESE with my IVF cycle with a donor backup in case they found nothing but we had to change those plans since our insurance wouldn't cover us if we used a donor backup. We decided to go with the TESE ahead of time and freeze anything they found. So, the timelines can vary depending on your plan of action.


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## Stinas

raelynn - Oh thats good news then. Im hoping it wont be long for us either! One month is not that bad to wait. 

rdleela - FX!!!!!!!


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## raelynn

Yeah, it went by really quickly especially since we were still trying to figure out our plan of action with the FS during that time.


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## silverbell

snd - that's great about them thinking the baby photo was of Marty as a baby. That must make you feel much more reassured about your decision. It's so close for you now and I'm praying your body is playing ball and the clear side is going to be the dominant side. Massive congrats on the weight loss! It'll all help with fertility, or so we're told. Great stuff!

wibble wobble - so exciting! It's all coming together for you now.

nightdaze - so sorry it's all coming down to money. It just upsets me so much when you sit and think how many people just want what everybody else takes for granted and what we were made to do - just to reproduce - and yet some of us don't get lucky and end up having to pay silly amounts just to get this most simple of things. I really hope you get a great big pile of luck come your way and things work out for you both :hugs:

Hi to everybody else.

IUI yesterday went very well and I'm fully loaded :haha: Even better numbers than the last time and I'm now in that dreaded 2ww. Just really hope this is it this time.


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## snd80

Happy late Anniv. Stinas! Hopefully you "got some"! :haha: I can feel you on the low sex drive all too well! Since my hubby started dialysis and then found out about his azoo, sex is almost zero now. Sucks! :nope:

RDL- Good luck!!! Everything including eyes crossed for ya!

SB- :happydance: Your tank is full now! :haha: Did you lay down with your hips elevated on the way home? And did they use a softcup afterwards for possible leakage? I am going to buy some just in case they don't have any to take w/ me.... We have a 4 hour ride home afterwards so I plan on laying in the backseat with a pillow under me for the trip! LOL! I keep thinking that $600 "liquid money" can't go to waste! Imagine ppl passing us thinking "what the hell is she doing?!" :wacko: Praying this is it for you and hopefully I will only be a week behind you!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh! =) You are my encouragement!

Deb- I'm with SB- sounds like you have an active little boy in the oven! :winkwink:

:hugs: to everyone else!


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## Deb111

Stinas - with hubby's low testosterone, his sex drive has been pretty non existent for a good 2 or 3 years and since the azoo diagnosis 2 years ago, it has been totally gone :nope:

I joke that he managed to get me pregnant without ever having to come near me! I say it to try and lighten things, but it does hurt


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## rdleela

Hello, ladies! Good news - WE'VE GOT SPERM!!!

omg, we're over the moon right now, this has been so stressful!

Here are the results: "Section of the seminiferous tubules show germ cells with maturation up to spermatozoa. The interstitial stromal space show occasional pigmented cells representing Leydig cells. (Good) Negative for inflammation, vasculitis, granuloma or atrophy. In summary, spermatogenesis is noted and an outside opinion is consulted for further assessment and characterization. Given that there is absence of spermatozoa on semen analysis sample, it would be of interest to assess genitourinary tract for obstruction."

I have contacted a specialist in B.C. who specializes in micro-surgery for these types of obstructions, so hoping to hear back from him soon for a consultation!

We could NOT be any happier! :happydance:


----------



## wibble wobble

Congrats Rdleela hope you don't have to wait long for more info....

I had to tell my boss today that I'll be starting Ivf next month (well didn't have to I just prefer that he knows so he wont give me too much of a hard time) He said 'you know what I'd be happy to help you out with that only I'm Jaffa' He's married with 3 kids so he's jaffa by choice (so I got a bit annoyed that he was taking the mickey out of those less fortunate)... he didn't have a clue where to put himself when I said my hubby was born jaffa (I probably shouldn't have said it, but it's not like he's ever going to meet my hubby I like to keep my home/work life completely separate)... He did go on to say 'you 2 must have a real true love going on, to survive finding out something like that' he kinda redeemed himself with that comment.


----------



## rdleela

I told my region leader what I was going through, only because it really has been affecting my performance. He was really understanding. I'm glad you "came out" to your boss!

The surgeon/specialist I contacted today got back to me so quickly! Phone consultation on Monday! I have been really lucky with how fast things are moving along; but then again, I researched the crap out of this, so I knew exactly who to call when we got the results.

I hope we can a chance to "make my family" like in my avatar. ;)


----------



## MJ73

Hi girls:flower: Thanks so much for all your lovely support...I'm having a better time today, I think PMS on top of everything made things alot tougher to deal with this week, now AF has arrived, I'm feeling much better...

*Tigerlilly & Rdleela*; so happy for both of you that they found :spermy: what a relief to have made it to this stage!

*Silverbell*; so glad the IUI went as planned; sending lots of :dust: your way hun.

*SND*; wow things are really moving along for you! So impressed with the weight loss, you're a real inspiration:bodyb:. I'm hoping your good side plays ball this month for your IUI & how lovely that your Aunt thought the donor's baby pic was DH, just confirmation that you've made the right decision.

Hope I haven't left anyone out. :hugs: Hugs to all xx
*Deb*; such lovely pics on your journal hun:cloud9:

*Wibble Wobble*; things are really moving along for you too; so glad you've found a match that you like so much, hoping you can get everything sorted before day1. My specialist said that if we used donor then he would still recommend that we do ICSI anyway because of my age.

*Raelynn*; well done on losing weight & are getting fit, not long till you start your IVF journey.

*Nightdaze*; hang in there hun:hugs: I think that the azoo diagnosis is one of the toughest things we've gone through. I think we all still have good & bad days. I was talking to a girl the other day who went through 4 ICSI cycles to get their bub & she said that the pain of infertility never leaves her; it has changed her forever...

*Stinas*; when they diagnose your DH with azoo, it feeels like they might as well say 'welcome to a sexless marriage!':cry: at least that's the way it's been for us. DH doesn't feel like a man anymore, doesn't see the use of having sex now he can't get me pregnant, or is in too much pain. I know this sounds heartless, but sometimes I feel like saying 'can we just stop the pity party & get our groove on!'... Like Deb said, it really does hurt. I find that I feel very rejected & unattractive too. My DH was just getting back his libido when the cancer prognosis has thrown a real spanner in the works. Now he doesn't feel like a man all over again...


----------



## silverbell

snd80 said:


> SB- :happydance: Your tank is full now! :haha: Did you lay down with your hips elevated on the way home? And did they use a softcup afterwards for possible leakage? I am going to buy some just in case they don't have any to take w/ me.... We have a 4 hour ride home afterwards so I plan on laying in the backseat with a pillow under me for the trip! LOL! I keep thinking that $600 "liquid money" can't go to waste! Imagine ppl passing us thinking "what the hell is she doing?!" :wacko: Praying this is it for you and hopefully I will only be a week behind you!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh! =) You are my encouragement!

No, they literally do the procedure and then tell you to get up and changed and leave. Then I was in a car travelling for 20 minutes and then in a pub for a meal and then in a car travelling for another good 2 hours or so. So definitely no hip elevation and no softcups. There's no need for softcups, as they place the fluid directly into your uterus and then the cervix keeps it all in. You are warned about a slight bit of discharge, but this is only from irritation of the cervix due to the catheter. So there's no need, but if you want to then of course there's nothing to stop you.

I didn't bother elevating as, again, I don't think there's any need. The sperm is exactly where it is supposed to be and I'm reassured after I see it going down those tubes too. Again though, if you'd feel better then go for it!

I'm so excited for you - I am keeping everything crossed that it's your good side that's going to be the one ovulating.



rdleela said:


> Hello, ladies! Good news - WE'VE GOT SPERM!!!

rdleela - massive, massive congratulations :happydance: I couldn't be more pleased for you and your husband. This is exactly what each and every one of us here hopes for, but so few manage to experience. Excellent news indeed.



wibble wobble said:


> I had to tell my boss today that I'll be starting Ivf next month (well didn't have to I just prefer that he knows so he wont give me too much of a hard time) He said 'you know what I'd be happy to help you out with that only I'm Jaffa' He's married with 3 kids so he's jaffa by choice (so I got a bit annoyed that he was taking the mickey out of those less fortunate)... he didn't have a clue where to put himself when I said my hubby was born jaffa (I probably shouldn't have said it, but it's not like he's ever going to meet my hubby I like to keep my home/work life completely separate)... He did go on to say 'you 2 must have a real true love going on, to survive finding out something like that' he kinda redeemed himself with that comment.

Shocking reaction, wibble. I'm glad you put him in his place and told him (I would have done the same). Hopefully it'll make him think twice in the future!


----------



## Deb111

Rdleela - so thrilled for you! :happydance:

MJ - big hugs hun :hugs:

WW - I agree with SB about your boss. Plus I know I don't know the guy, but how arrogant to suggest he could solve your problem! Glad you put him right!

AFM - we chose to have a private scan for the Down's screening etc today as baby was not co-operating at the NHS scan - best money we've spent for a while! Amazing expereince and many, many different indicators of problems checked for and nothing showing up. All 'prefect' so she says. Got to wait for full report once blood test is back, but feel so reassured 

Hope everyone else is hanging on in there xx


----------



## snd80

rd- :happydance: So glad for you guys! I know it is a load off your mind!


----------



## snd80

And so it begins.....

I decided to put my car in the shop for brakes, an oil change and a new air filter for the "maybe" trip next week since it is cheaper on gas than our truck, and the place we have to go to is real tight on parking, and our truck is HUGE. So after $175 yesterday, the guy then tells me I need new front ball joints and lateral arms b/c they were about to come off (which I already knew they were loose)... great! Another $230! But oh no, we're not done yet! Now he calls and says that some of the bolts that are needed to come off for the job are seazed and rusted into the frame, so now we might be talking another $100! Jeez! I should have just rented a car, but it still would have had to be done eventually, so I am screwed either way! :nope: *sigh* I have the WORST luck of anyone, I swear! Just hope it is all gone away by Monday! :shrug:


----------



## Pink Lolly

silverbell said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> SB- :happydance: Your tank is full now! :haha: Did you lay down with your hips elevated on the way home? And did they use a softcup afterwards for possible leakage? I am going to buy some just in case they don't have any to take w/ me.... We have a 4 hour ride home afterwards so I plan on laying in the backseat with a pillow under me for the trip! LOL! I keep thinking that $600 "liquid money" can't go to waste! Imagine ppl passing us thinking "what the hell is she doing?!" :wacko: Praying this is it for you and hopefully I will only be a week behind you!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh! =) You are my encouragement!
> 
> No, they literally do the procedure and then tell you to get up and changed and leave. Then I was in a car travelling for 20 minutes and then in a pub for a meal and then in a car travelling for another good 2 hours or so. So definitely no hip elevation and no softcups. There's no need for softcups, as they place the fluid directly into your uterus and then the cervix keeps it all in. You are warned about a slight bit of discharge, but this is only from irritation of the cervix due to the catheter. So there's no need, but if you want to then of course there's nothing to stop you.
> 
> I didn't bother elevating as, again, I don't think there's any need. The sperm is exactly where it is supposed to be and I'm reassured after I see it going down those tubes too. Again though, if you'd feel better then go for it!
> 
> I'm so excited for you - I am keeping everything crossed that it's your good side that's going to be the one ovulating.Click to expand...

SND - I can back up what SB is saying! I had my iui and stayed lying down for about 15 mins, then I got dressed, walked to the car and then sat in the car for the hour and a half drive home (seat reclined only slightly for comfort)....and as you know I got my bfp!

Try not to worry about it falling out, like SB says they put it right up where it needs to do and the swimmers are gone as soon as they're put in there! One word of warning though...sorry if tmi....After both of my iuis, when they pulled the catheter out, I felt a small amount of fluid leak out with it. I was told it was just the lube and increased cm - it isn't the swimmers. I was worried but again my bfp proves it was fine! xx


----------



## silverbell

Pink Lolly said:


> silverbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> SB- :happydance: Your tank is full now! :haha: Did you lay down with your hips elevated on the way home? And did they use a softcup afterwards for possible leakage? I am going to buy some just in case they don't have any to take w/ me.... We have a 4 hour ride home afterwards so I plan on laying in the backseat with a pillow under me for the trip! LOL! I keep thinking that $600 "liquid money" can't go to waste! Imagine ppl passing us thinking "what the hell is she doing?!" :wacko: Praying this is it for you and hopefully I will only be a week behind you!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh! =) You are my encouragement!
> 
> No, they literally do the procedure and then tell you to get up and changed and leave. Then I was in a car travelling for 20 minutes and then in a pub for a meal and then in a car travelling for another good 2 hours or so. So definitely no hip elevation and no softcups. There's no need for softcups, as they place the fluid directly into your uterus and then the cervix keeps it all in. You are warned about a slight bit of discharge, but this is only from irritation of the cervix due to the catheter. So there's no need, but if you want to then of course there's nothing to stop you.
> 
> I didn't bother elevating as, again, I don't think there's any need. The sperm is exactly where it is supposed to be and I'm reassured after I see it going down those tubes too. Again though, if you'd feel better then go for it!
> 
> I'm so excited for you - I am keeping everything crossed that it's your good side that's going to be the one ovulating.Click to expand...
> 
> SND - I can back up what SB is saying! I had my iui and stayed lying down for about 15 mins, then I got dressed, walked to the car and then sat in the car for the hour and a half drive home (seat reclined only slightly for comfort)....and as you know I got my bfp!
> 
> Try not to worry about it falling out, like SB says they put it right up where it needs to do and the swimmers are gone as soon as they're put in there! One word of warning though...sorry if tmi....After both of my iuis, when they pulled the catheter out, I felt a small amount of fluid leak out with it. I was told it was just the lube and increased cm - it isn't the swimmers. I was worried but again my bfp proves it was fine! xxClick to expand...

Yeah I second that last paragraph - I had this happen on my last one too I noticed. I knew it wasn't any of the wash/sperm though because I saw it all go in - it's just all the crazy amounts of lube and the mucus from messing about with the cervix, I believe.

Oh and I meant to say 'my clinic do the procedure and then get you to get dressed straight away etc'. They're all different.

Sorry about the car, snd :nope:


----------



## Stinas

silverbell - FX this is it for you!!!!! 

snd - Thank you!!!! No sexy time for me! AF decided to show up. It sucks!... but I got presents, so it was not that bad lol 
Sorry about your car....i swear...they are the WORST investment! DH & I lease now. My father was against leasing, so once I got married DH put in over 7k within 2 months into the car I bought(before we got married)....then hes like f this....and he put me into the car I have been dying for with a lease. You bring it into the dealership and they fix it all for free. Totally worth it. I swear once you pay for a car and get the title, EVERYTHING goes wrong. Makes me super mad!
Im sure your luck will turn around. We already got a pretty shitty stick of luck, so it must go up from here. Monday will be a great day!

Deb - I am hoping DH gets it back, but im glad im not the only one in this sexless boat. I would probably crack the same joke...it did make me giggle when i read it lol I guess its just something that comes with the azoo curse. Ive decided to call it that now. :growlmad:
Im glad to hear the baby is perfect!!!! I could imagine how relieved you feel just hearing that. 

rdleela - Your starting to sound like a doctor to me now lol Thats AMAZING news!!! :happydance: Yay!!! Im sooo happy you got good news! I need to catch up with your pm's! ....i have been MIA for a couple days.

wibble wobble - Sorry if I sound stupid, but what is Jaffa? It sucks having to tell anyone let alone a boss. Glad it worked out ok.

MJ73 - i would LOVE to tell DH that! lol...sometimes I do and it gets him to laugh. It sucks that we cant make them feel better about it. I also feel rejected and just plain old fat & ugly when he does not want to do it. We had a very active sex life, so this is driving me nuts. I am on a mission to change it! 

As for me....I have a little over a week until our May 8th apt. Hopefully this waiting limbo goes quick. DH and I have a lot of change happening with work right now, so thats been keeping us mentally busy for the last 2 days. Its all positive, so thats at least one good thing going on.


----------



## SunUp

Sorry, I am copying this from my journal - but with my schedule and having about 0 free minutes the past few weeks, this is where I am at:

I will try to catch up soon, ladies!

HOLYCRAP.
I started my cycle. Naturally, on CD 30.
Which means, sono/blood work Monday, then 5 days of clomid - 
IUI could be in 10 days!
Seriously thought I had more time!!! But I am not complaining!
I just PRAY this works!


----------



## snd80

Yay Sun! Was wondering where you had been.... FX for you and you won't be too far behind some of us (hopefully including me!) Hugs!


----------



## silverbell

Stinas said:


> As for me....I have a little over a week until our May 8th apt. Hopefully this waiting limbo goes quick. DH and I have a lot of change happening with work right now, so thats been keeping us mentally busy for the last 2 days. Its all positive, so thats at least one good thing going on.

8 May is so close now! :dance: Glad you're keeping busy and hope the next week flies by.



SunUp said:


> Sorry, I am copying this from my journal - but with my schedule and having about 0 free minutes the past few weeks, this is where I am at:
> 
> I will try to catch up soon, ladies!
> 
> HOLYCRAP.
> I started my cycle. Naturally, on CD 30.
> Which means, sono/blood work Monday, then 5 days of clomid -
> IUI could be in 10 days!
> Seriously thought I had more time!!! But I am not complaining!
> I just PRAY this works!

Great news SunUp :dance: Lots of us going through or about to start IUI at the moment - very exciting for all of us.


----------



## wibble wobble

Stinas said:


> wibble wobble - Sorry if I sound stupid, but what is Jaffa? It sucks having to tell anyone let alone a boss. Glad it worked out ok.

Jaffa's are a type of orange that are seedless, so it's kind of an insulting term for guys that produce no sperm. Calling them seedless

It's a bit childish really, macho men gauging their masculinity by how many kids they father (or in some cases think they have) It's their way of poking fun at the less fortunate.


----------



## snd80

Ooooo WW! You are better than me! I would have went the f*&k off on him!!!!! Job or no job! Some things you just don't say! And when I told my hubby what he said, he would have toted a major a$$ whipping! Bet! Damn, I hate that so bad for you! Inconsiderate a$$hole!!!! That just burns me up!


----------



## snd80

Does anyone know what happened to some of the other girls that used to be on this thread? I remember some of them from a year ago when I joined the azoo club, and just wondered.... hmmmmmm? Being nosey today! =)


----------



## Deb111

I often wonder the same snd. The one on the lower half of the list on the front page are the ones that I haven't heard from or had updates from for a long time. I must have a look and see if I can find out any info xx

EDIT - hhmmmm I used to know how to do a member search but can't remember now! Anyone know how to?


----------



## snd80

Stinas said:


> snd - Thank you!!!! No sexy time for me! AF decided to show up. It sucks!... but I got presents, so it was not that bad lol
> Sorry about your car....i swear...they are the WORST investment! DH & I lease now. My father was against leasing, so once I got married DH put in over 7k within 2 months into the car I bought(before we got married)....then hes like f this....and he put me into the car I have been dying for with a lease. You bring it into the dealership and they fix it all for free. Totally worth it. I swear once you pay for a car and get the title, EVERYTHING goes wrong. Makes me super mad!
> Im sure your luck will turn around. We already got a pretty shitty stick of luck, so it must go up from here. Monday will be a great day!

Well, I really want a new car (mine is old, a 97, and has over 180,000 miles on it), but I just can't bring myself to buy another one yet! I looked at one a few months ago, and almost bought it, but I just keep thinking I can put that $ towards this baby, ya know? And our show truck is still pretty new, and it just sits in our driveway, so if mine dies, I still have a ride to drive. Just more gas! LOL! After the past 2 days and $470, all I need is a new paint job and 2 new tires, and I will about have a new car! :haha: Although hubby didn't think it was too funny when it came outta his savings acct! :winkwink:


----------



## Deb111

Ok ... so Dancergirl had D-IUI and was due a little boy on 16th Nov. Haven't heard since so don't want to make any assumptions and update front page, but hopefully all went well :thumbup:


----------



## rdleela

Deb, you could add me on the first page, looks like we'll be the first couple on this thread to possibly have surgery to bypass a blockage! We found out about no sperm at the end of January and on Monday will find out if surgery will be our next step, or on to IVF/ICSI...I'd love for other couples facing what we are to be able to find me!


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## Deb111

All done rdleela :thumbup:


----------



## Stinas

WW - what an asshole!!!!!! Ewww I just don't understand people. I can't stand stupidity. I'm sorry you had to go through that. 

Snd - lol I agree with saving money for the baby. Plus if you have the other car you will be fine. Go with the flow for now.


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi Girls, 
Wow there is lots happening at the moment for you guys. This thread is flying. Its great to see and receive so much support. What would we do without you guys??

So I am almost on CD 1, starting clomid and HOPEFULLY all goes well and we have IUI with donor in approx 2 weeks. I REALLY cannot believe it. It doesnt feel real at all. After so much heartache, it feels strange to be excited. 
We were in the supermarket yesterday and there was a couple behind us with a newborn baby (who was screaming might I add) and my hubby turned to me at the checkout and said 'that will be us soon' with the biggest smile on his face. Being hormonal, I held everything not to ball in the queue! This is the first time we have allowed our minds to wander and think that it might just happen. 

For those that have had IUI, what CD did you ovulate or what day did you have the IUI completed?


----------



## WANBMUM

MJ - My heart broke for you when I read your post, I hope you and your OH are doing ok. While we were waiting for our results, as my hubby had blockages - what scared me the most, wasnt being told that my OH couldnt have children biologically, I was worried, they would say he had something else wrong with him and it really put our lives into perspective and it made me realise, as much as I want his babies, it is my husband's health which is more important. So I cannot imagine what you are going through as it is hard enough to find out your life partner cannot have children (thankfully my OH's blockages was down to scar tissue, that was in operable). Sending you hugs, stay strong :)


----------



## Stinas

WANBMUM - Yay for DIUI!!! Congrats!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi girls! I have been lurking but everytime I go to post, I get pulled away from the computer. It's been busy in here!

WANBMUM- Best of luck with the diui.

rdleela- So glad you're moving right along. I hope you get more good news.

SunUp- I have everything crossed for you! That time will fly!

Just an update on us, we see the urologist in less than 2 weeks! I called the clinic to ask if they were going to see me that same day about my testing. They booked us an appointment for the end of June to go over DH's results from the urologist and to talk to us about our options. Scary to think that we could have our answers by the end of June. (My first day of summer break.) I'm getting anxious about what the urologist will say about his low T and small testicle. Trying to keep my hopes up. We saw the infertility psychologist almost 2 weeks ago. He only seemed to want to talk about donor sperm and we were sold on it for a bit, then kind of went 10 steps back. I think we'll continue to do that until we know what is happening with DH. So hard on the head!

(Deb- Can you change the header to add our other appt is on June 27th with RE to discuss all our options)


----------



## Stinas

CanadianMaple - Nice to hear that things are moving along for you!!! Yay! 
I think when it comes to the donor everyone goes a step forward and then back a few.


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## rdleela

CanadianMaple, I am happy to hear you'll be getting some answers soon! And hoping you find the right answer for YOU guys!


----------



## Deb111

All done Candian :thumbup:


----------



## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> So I am almost on CD 1, starting clomid and HOPEFULLY all goes well and we have IUI with donor in approx 2 weeks. I REALLY cannot believe it. It doesnt feel real at all. After so much heartache, it feels strange to be excited.
> We were in the supermarket yesterday and there was a couple behind us with a newborn baby (who was screaming might I add) and my hubby turned to me at the checkout and said 'that will be us soon' with the biggest smile on his face. Being hormonal, I held everything not to ball in the queue! This is the first time we have allowed our minds to wander and think that it might just happen.
> 
> For those that have had IUI, what CD did you ovulate or what day did you have the IUI completed?

Hey WANBMUM - that's great news! :dance: Like I said, there's a lot of us having DIUI or about to start at the moment. I'm looking forward to lots of lovely BFPs soon :thumbup:

We felt exactly the same - that we could finally start to get excited and my DH will often say that to me as well (that'll be us soon) whenever we're out and about :cloud9: 

My first IUI I had it on CD23 because the injections (Gonal F) completely slowed down my ovaries and my follicles took ages to do anything. I was told this can happen sometimes. Second time around I was put on a slightly higher dose and on dailies and it must have been the right combination because my follies grew beautifully with no issues and I had IUI on CD13. I would say just go with it and see what happens - it seems each cycle can be very different and the first one they'll possibly be trying to figure out dosages anyway so it might delay your IUI for a bit if you're unlucky like me with the slow-response. Hoping all goes perfectly though and you don't have to wait long for the IUI.

CM - Great news that things are moving forwards.


----------



## wibble wobble

Sorry in advance for the personal question it's about donors

I just wondered has anyone had a match on the nhs? and I wondered how much information you might have been given. I have a feeling that my clinic may have given me too much about the one I chose. It was more like I was given information intended for the child when they reach 18 (uk donors are anonymous until then) it was pretty much an about me story... whereas the one we didn't choose just had a goodwill message, nothing that personal in it.

I am happy with our choice I just feel a bit overwhelmed by knowing so much about someone I've never met... I've got to say too that I was pretty impressed reading about him (fixing hospital equiptment used for treating cancer patients)but that didn't influence my choice. The brown eyes made him the winner, the blue eyed donor studied for a phd in cambridge uni my mother inlaw was saying I should pick him for that reason.

Hope everyone is doing ok x


----------



## silverbell

Hi wibble

We were literally told eye colour, hair colour, height, build, blood group and CMV status. That's it. I think clinics work differently though, but not sure? :shrug:


----------



## snd80

Ok girls, quick update then I'll come back for personals later....

Everything is a go! We head to Jackson Weds! Couldn't do my annual pap b/c the dr was in surgery, but I told them I *had* to have the u/s done, so they did, and both sides were producing, but the "good side" looked the best!!!! :happydance: Then they started talking "trigger shot", so I called Jackson and she said if I don't have a + ov test tomorrow, then go get the shot tomorrow and still come Weds... so either way it's a go! I am scared sh*tless now!!!!!! I was really expecting bad news, so now I'm running in circles! Ahhhhh! Breathe Nikki, breathe!!!


----------



## ronnie1985

Hello people my name is ronnie i was the person on the j,k show on this date well in a couple of weeks it will be one year since it was on tv and we still have had no luck with having a baby


----------



## ronnie1985

waitingginger said:


> now i dont normally watch jeremy kyle but i was in the gym and title was 'why cant we have a baby? fertility test results' so came home and put it on itv+1 hour and looks like its male feritlity issues.... just waiting on results....

hello im ronnie the male from this episode i have replied above but then noticed you would no no what im on about.

we was on the show on the 16th of may 2011 personaly we found the show to be more confusing than helpfull and we have still had no luck :(


----------



## tigerlily1975

SND: That's fantastic!! Goooooood luck, crossing everything for you!! :hugs:

SilverBell: How are you feeling? Sending positive vibes to you during the 'dreaded' 2WW!! :hugs:

:hi: and big :hugs: to everyone, hope you're all good.

C xx


----------



## rdleela

Hope everyone is well! Exciting news, snd80!

We had our phone consultation today with the male infertility specialist/urologist/surgeon from B.C. - WOW - by far, the only Dr. who has treated us seriously and answered all of our questions! 

First good news: surgery should be paid for by Alberta Health Care, even though we are going to BC! He says he's never had an application denied by any of the provinces. So, hopefully ours is approved!

He is definately leaning towards DH having a blockage, but the BIG question is: Where is the blockage located?

If it's closer to the Epididymis (on the testis), then it's a Vasoepididymostomy that DH will need. This is the more complicated surgery that has good success rates, but not awesome success rates. 

If it's an Ejaculatory Duct Obstruction (which he is leaning towards due to the fact that DH's SA's came back with very low volume) then that's a less complicated surgery, and what they do is they actually go in through the uretha and "unroof" or relieve the ducts of the obstruction. This has a higher success rate than the vasoepididymostomy.

So DH needs to go for one more u/s, a transrectal (TRUS). If he has an EDO, they should be able to see it on the u/s! We're just waiting on the u/s to be booked, not sure how long that's gonna take to get done.

He also wants DH's testosterone levels done again, as they were leaning towards the low side for fertility. So not too sure about that one!

To sum up, just waiting on these tests to determine where the blockage is, to determine what kind of surgery DH gets! And it's a 2-3 month wait period to get the surgery done, which is the ONLY thing that's disappointing me, but YEESH, trying to be ok with the wait time and learn some stupid patience! lol And rejoicing that it should be free!!


----------



## deafgal01

Ok- curious... How long can hubby be off his "clomid" medicine before it starts to disappear from his blood? He ran out of the medicine over the weekend but needs to call the pharmacy to see if insurance will cover it there or if he needs to have dr call it in to a medco to "mail" to our house. Arugh... I'm frustrated- I told him he needs to be responsible for making sure he wasn't out of the med before it happens.

Other frustration- he recently had an eye exam and it showed spots on the eye. They sent it off and the specialist called to tell DH to get his blood pressure checked because these spots are an indicator of "high blood pressure". He's got a dr appt this Thursday to follow up on that with his dr. Is it possible this is caused by either going off the medicine he ran out of ? Or is it more of his body-natural thing and not affected by the drugs he's on?


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## CanadianMaple

rdleela- What an awesome update! You're so lucky to find such a highly skilled doctor and it's paid? Bonus! Let us know how the rest of his testing goes.

deafgal01- I wish I had the answer to your questions. I hope his BP checks out okay and it's just a fluke.

Nothing new to report here. I'll be on the single digit countdown to the urology appointment tomorrow...9 days. I am getting really antsy, I can't wait to see what he thinks...even if it is bad news. We just sold our camper and are upgrading this weekend. We are using some of our IVF money we had saved. We figure we'll just make do, we need something happy and exciting. We go camping all summer long and keep living.


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## Stinas

snd - Thats great news!!!! Yay!!!! 

rdleela - At this point, two months isnt that bad....im sure it will slide by!!! 

CanadianMaple - We can count down together! Our apt is May 8th! 

Im glad to see everyone is rolling along nicely!!! I cant wait to see some BFP's!!


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## rdleela

CanadianMaple, that's awesome that you guys are gonna get out and camp all summer! That's the Canadian way! :) We spend almost every weekend at the lake all summer, as well...

So happy for you ladies to be getting some answers from the urologists, as well! FX'd for both of you, and hoping time flies by quickly for all of us!


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## SunUp

Hey Deb, Could you put me on the first page? Pretty Please :)


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## snd80

deafgal01 said:


> Other frustration- he recently had an eye exam and it showed spots on the eye. They sent it off and the specialist called to tell DH to get his blood pressure checked because these spots are an indicator of "high blood pressure". He's got a dr appt this Thursday to follow up on that with his dr. Is it possible this is caused by either going off the medicine he ran out of ? Or is it more of his body-natural thing and not affected by the drugs he's on?

My hubby had that happen to him about 5 years ago. His bp was so high it was bursting the blood vessels in his eyes. IDK if your hubby's is caused by meds or not, but def. get some blood work done and get that bp under control! I only wish we would have taken my hubby's more seriousally than we did, or he might not be on dialysis today!!!


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## Deb111

SunUp said:


> Hey Deb, Could you put me on the first page? Pretty Please :)

Sure - just let me know what you want me to put :winkwink: There's so many of us in here these days, I can't keep track :thumbup:

Sorry not got time to do personals but there seems to be lots of good news in here lately :happydance:

Oh and Snd - good luck for tomorrow!!! xx


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, glad ot hear everyone is well and making good progress!

I am back in the game for our next DIUI, it seems like forwever since we did our last goes back in October. So here we are ready for go 4!

I am just waiting painfully for AF, I have my usual spotting the day or so before so I know she is on her way - so no natural miracle in the last possible month!!!

I am feeling excited, but depressed at starting it all again, and dreading the TWW, as I drive myself insane every month, but I know after the IUI it's much worse!

We have a new donor, so I am told this is good - as it is possible that I could have been incompatible with the last donor as it didn't work after 3 goes, which is quite unusual - don't know how incompatible works really - otherwise lots of people would have that problem surley!

FX for me for the fourth attempt!:nope:


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## deafgal01

good luck Step mummy!

Snd- thanks so much! 

He will be seeing the regular family dr this coming Thursday about the blood pressure to get it checked out. I think it's fascinating that dentists can tell something's up with your health just by looking at your teeth and gums. Now I know the same can be applied to eyes. :shock: So cool. (not cool when there's a health issue to be aware about but still pretty neat). I'm just curious what types of stuff will have to be done- meds, diet change, etc. to help lower it. At this point, I'm just going to guess it's genetic related since there's family history of having high blood pressure but yeah it'll not hurt to figure out if it's related to all the meds he's taking recently or if it's just from genetics.


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## silverbell

Snd - I'm soooooo excited for you! Wow, what a result! :happydance: Let us know how you get on. Good luck x x x 

rdleela - glad you got some answers and finally got to speak to somebody who knows what they're talking about. 2 to 3 months seems like a lifetime, but I know I speak for all of us here when I say it's a short time in the long scheme of things and it all sounds so promising and very much like what most of us dream of. That sounds weird to put it like that, but I hope you know what I mean!

CanadianMaple - that sounds lovely about the camper van. We all need to treat ourselves while going through all of this, I agree :thumbup: Not long to go now!

Step Mummy - good luck this cycle! 

deafgal - I hope your DH gets some answers soon about his eyes.


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## Stinas

Step Mummy - fx!! I hope this one is it for you!!!

This time next week I will hopefully have more answers! I hope it goes by fast!


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- Your appointment is in a week! I hope yours goes well. It's so hard not to wish time away, but at this point, I just want time to fly! 

Angela-  I hope you have better luck with this new donor. I had read somewhere that usually all it takes is a new donor and you get your BFP. I hope that happens for you this try! Keep us updated!

rdleela- Our summers are so short, it really makes sense to get out on the weekends. Our old one sells tomorrow and we'll be taking home the new one in about a week. We needed something like this to look forward to!

deafgal01- If it is a chronic high BP situation, I am glad they caught it now and hope it can be controlled easily. It's hard having more worry/stress on our plates with everything else going on.

Can anyone believe it's May? For months and months, I figured we would see the urologist in May. I'm so relieved to flip the calendar over.


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## rdleela

silverbell said:


> rdleela - glad you got some answers and finally got to speak to somebody who knows what they're talking about. 2 to 3 months seems like a lifetime, but I know I speak for all of us here when I say it's a short time in the long scheme of things and it all sounds so promising and very much like what most of us dream of. That sounds weird to put it like that, but I hope you know what I mean!

lol, I know what you mean! I am so VERY lucky to still have a chance to have DH's biological child, and even the possibility to TTC naturally again after all of this! I will have to do a better job of reminding myself of that fact...I am such an impatient girl, and this must be my BIG lesson in life...I am a planner so deep in my soul, and not having "dates" booked drives me nuts! So it's been so tough to not go completely crazy through all of this. I am going to focus on being much more positive about our current situation and getting through this (hopefully) last leg!

And good luck, StepMummy!


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## CanadianMaple

I do so much better when I have dates circled on the calendar. I think that's why I struggled so much while waiting for the genetic tests to come in. It would have helped me mentally if they would have just booked something 3 months ahead.


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## Stinas

One more week! FINALLY! I am just praying for some sort of answers and testing asap! 
Lets get moving!...we have waited long enough. Waiting sucks!


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## rdleela

CanadianMaple said:


> I do so much better when I have dates circled on the calendar. I think that's why I struggled so much while waiting for the genetic tests to come in. It would have helped me mentally if they would have just booked something 3 months ahead.

 TOTALLY agree!!:wacko:


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## silverbell

rdleela - it's weird how many of us ladies on here are planners. I struggled myself not having dates. Once I had dates in place I could relax a bit and the wait didn't seem as bad because you knew where you stood and the date was getting closer each day. Yes, you're definitely very lucky indeed and it all sounds very promising for you, which is fabulous.

Stinas - :wohoo: I'm sure the next week will fly by.

snd - thinking of you today :happydance:


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## deafgal01

CanadianM- I agree, glad they caught it now rather than later. Somehow I think I know it's not chronic though because there's a family history of high blood pressure but it's not bad enough yet- it's in the pre-diag stage so I think we can still pull out preventive measures and change some things in his diet/lifestyle to bring the pressure down. It's not that HIGH yet- last time he checked this week at a store, it was more than 120 over 85. :shrug:

Totally agree with you on the waiting part. It kills me to wait for our bfps. It makes us stronger but the "getting there" part just seems so far away sometimes. There are days I feel closer to the goal and then there are other days I "lose" hope.

Ironically, during a conversation with one girlfriend tonight- she has no idea what the issue is since I told her I wasn't allowed to discuss it but that infertility is playing a role in it. She asked me how it has affected my relationship with Zach... If the infertility's hurting our relationship or not. Honestly I told her, I'm surprised it's made our relationship stronger. Seems for many of us in this group, this is only another "barrier" to climb over together with our men.

I hope to see many more bfps in this group soon, very soon from these of you undergoing ivf or any other method to get pregnant. I get so emotionally excited for you ladies when I find out you get your long awaited bfp finally. When it's any other lady (especially ones I know in real life) and I find out via fb, it makes the reality of this so much harder for me to bear at times. I don't feel the same joy for them as I do for you ladies because I get jealous that they have it "so easy", but you know what? We got it good even though it's harder for us- at least we can say, hey we're going into this together, we'll get out this together and in the time waiting together, we build up on the relationship thru both bad and good times. I look at them, and they have no idea how difficult things are getting for them- one is unmarried and very young just fresh out of high school. The other I know of, she's on her third pregnancy and always complaining about her relationship with her husband.

You ladies rock. Keep up the hoping and supporting each other. We will all get to that point where we can celebrate each and every bfp we get to see in here. :hugs: We are going to be "success" stories for any infertility couples still struggling out there.


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## silverbell

Lovely post, deafgal. :cloud9:

Couldn't agree more :friends:


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## MJ73

Agree, beautiful post DG:flower:

Well girls, we have had a wee bit of good news today. They found DH's other testicle!!! I know this might sound funny to those of you who's DH have two, but for us, with this cancer thing hanging over our head this is huge news! They said that the reason it hasn't been found is that it is just up in the groin, not in the abdomen as undescended testicles often are. It is also of a reasonable size, only one cm smaller than the other one. And it has reasonable blood flow to the area so may well even be producing a few spermies:spermy:. It could even mean that they have another testicle from which to retrieve sperm. He would have to have an op to have it brought down, but they may be able to use it to find sperm. I had a bit of cry in the ultrasound room when they found it, as it was just not in our options that they may find it at all, let alone find one that was reasonably healthy. The other good news we had was that the radiology Dr said, that while cancer is one of his options he thinks the dark spot on the ultrasound may be scar tissue or an infected heomatoma (sp?) from our IVF treatments. So, while we have to wait 2 more weeks to see the urologist we feel that we can relax a bit as it may not be cancer.

So, SO happy for SND :hugs: Happy your body is co-operating. You're a beautiful girl xx


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## SunUp

Deafgal, you are so right! I believe we will all be success stories and maybe the next 'round' of those diagnosed with azoo will come here and get so much hope! 

I totally agree about being excited for everyone on this site and not so much those that i know personally - It just seems so many people take children for granted. It doesn't help that I see that a lot in my job. But I am so excited for everyone here that when BFPs happen I am actually happy!

Great news, MJ! So glad you can relax some.

Afm, I am on day 3 of clomid today and I go in for monitoring next tuesday, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. I kind of feel weird being on clomid, as I feel I ovulate on my own pretty well, and this is really the first time of our 'trying' for real, if you know what I mean.... But I wasn't going to say no, I mean the RE knows what he is doing, I just hope that it really does work.


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## deafgal01

MJ that is great!!!! :wohoo:


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## Step Mummy

MJ, I am sorry to hear you are having such a tough time, as if trying for a baby is not tough enough you have had other scares to deal with too.

Great news that you have had something positive, FX for you that everything turns out ok.


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## rdleela

GREAT NEWS, MJ! Oh, I am crossing my fingers and toes for you!!

And yes, deafgal, great post, I whole-heartily agree!


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## tigerlily1975

That's fantastic news, MJ! Keeping everything crossed for you and DH!

C xx


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## WANBMUM

SunUp said:


> Afm, I am on day 3 of clomid today and I go in for monitoring next tuesday, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. I kind of feel weird being on clomid, as I feel I ovulate on my own pretty well, and this is really the first time of our 'trying' for real, if you know what I mean.... But I wasn't going to say no, I mean the RE knows what he is doing, I just hope that it really does work.

Woo Sun UP - we are pretty much going through the same at the moment. I am on Day 2 of Clomid and I go in for monitoring next thursday. It is my first time on clomid too, they did offer to try a cycle with no clomid, but in a way I could tell she was encouraging me to go on it, even though I ov on my own. So i said, why wait! 
They are preparing me for IUI with donor, so fingers crossed for both of us next week :)


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## Deb111

Rdleela - you've done so well to get this far in such a short time. I hope you can get this sorted and get onto the next stage :thumbup:

Snd - hope today has gone well :hugs:

MJ - fab news! :happydance:

Deafgal - what a lovely post. I know exactly what you're saying; :bfp: s on this thread are so much easier to take as we all know the horrendous journey each other has been on. I must admit, I do feel a little wary of posting in here sometimes and try to keep most of my pregnancy stuff to my journal and I hope you girls would tell me if it ever became an issue. I still wouldn't want to be going through this without you girls and do feel it's important to have positive stories on here. I know it helped me immensely when others got their :bfp: s I popped into 1st tri a while back, but it's such a difficult place to be with people who got their :bfp:s at the drop of a hat - it felt like no one 'got me'

Anyway, hugs to you all :hugs:


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## wibble wobble

MJ that's great news hope all goes well with further results

Deb I like to hear updates on pregnancy,it gives me hope

Deafgal that was a really lovely post

Sunup and Wanbmum good luck with the clomid

Silverbell how's the 2ww going?

SND hope the iui went ok

rdleela the time will fly by, it always does when you have a date to count down to.

Canadian Maple we never have much of a summer either, hope you have some really nice weekends away in your new camper

sorry if I've missed anyone 

afm AF showed up today @ 6pm or there abouts so tomorrow will be classed as cd1 by my clinic when I ring them so excited I get to order meds :)


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## deafgal01

Deb- I like hearing about how your pregnancy is progressing. It gives me hope each day when I see your name and know it's still possible. We'll be sure to let you know if it ever becomes too much but I think we all need the "encouragement" seeing that you're pregnant and knowing it's going to be a happy ending (or more like, beginning) for you!

Good luck to the girls giving clomid a try this cycle. :hugs: Hope things happen for you!


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## rdleela

Yes, Deb, keep checking in on us! I can't wait till more of us get preggo and we have even more success stories to give more girls information and hope in the future!

And excited for you wibble wobble! :happydance:


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## raelynn

Ladies, so glad so many of you are finally progressing. The waiting and not knowing is one of the hardest parts of this journey. I'm still in a bit of a waiting game myself. Waiting for AF so we can get started on all the IVF work. Right now, my body is playing tricks on me. I've been spotting for several days. I keep thinking AF is coming but it has just been too light. I'm accustom to spotting with my cycles being around 3 months long I tend to spot throughout but this is just cruel. I'm already so worried about timing since we have a tiny little window to fit in if we want to do IVF this cycle. We can't do ER until after June 21st if we want to have the option of getting fresh sperm with another TESE if our frozen ones don't survive. But, we also have a cruise at the end of July that hubby wants to be healed up for if he has another TESE. Our nurse said they can adjust how long I take birth control to extend it but we're looking at about a 2 week window to get ER in. I'm just praying AF shows sometime in May.


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## Stinas

deafgal01 - I couldnt have said it better!!! Wonderful post! I agree 100%! I feel the same way about all you bnb ladies! Its weird being over the moon for people you dont know in real life, but when someone you have known all your life has a baby its like ok thats nice(not in a bad way, but you know what I mean). I also feel like this whole entire TTC process has bought DH & I closer. I feel like if we are able to conquer this, there is nothing we cant do. The more hurdles we go through, the closer we seem to get. 

MJ73 - Thats such wonderful news!!!!! I really hope it turns out to be nothing! 

wibble wobble - Weird how exciting it is to get AF sometimes! Fx its your cycle!

Deb - I agree with deafgal....I love hearing about pregnant bnb ladies...especially ones who have gone through what we are going through....it does help a lot. 

raelynn - I hope AF comes soon!!! It sucks waiting and not knowing! Have you googled any natural ways to bring on AF? or can your doc prescribe you Provera(I believe thats what its called) or is that not good to mix with IVF? 

As for me.....tuesday is coming...slowly, but its so close i can reach it lol


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## MJ73

*Deb*, I also love hearing how your pregnancy is going. I find it a source of comfort & inspiration that you are now duffers after such a long, painful journey to get there. As I do for all the other girls on this thread who get their BFPs; it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling :cloud9: so happy for you girls. 

*Raelyn*, sorry you have to do more waiting :hugs:, believe me when I say you are in good company here. I feel like because of my age we are just wasting so much time at the moment waiting for cancer results.

*WW*, so excited for you hun!!!! :happydance: Not long now xx

*Sun & Wanbmum *thinking of you gals on the clomid:hugs:.

*SB*, sending loads of :af: :ninja: and :dust: your way. Keeping everything crossed for a BFP for you xx

*DG*; good luck with Dh's DR's appt, I think it's today?

*Stinas*; glad things are moving along for you...

*RDleela*; have you heard anything more yet re the surgery & tests for DH's testosterone?

*CM*, not long now till your urology appt. A new camper; exciting. I think it's so important to have things other than IVF/Sperm & babies to focus on.

*SND*; how's things going? Have you started? :happydance:

*Step Mummy*; You ahve been through so much,:hugs: I'm really hoping a new donor may be all you need. I too have heard of women who try & try then change donors & fall quite quickly. Apparently it can be like a sperm/egg compatibility issue...

I have been thinking today about how thankful I am for everyone one of you strong :bodyb:, courageous women. (How I wish we didn't have to be so strong or courageous)... I really couldn't get through all that we have been/are going through without you all. I affectionately refer to you all as my 'azoo girls'. There is no-one in my life who understands just how it feels, so having my azoo girls going through this with me really is a great source of comfort. So thankyou all for your friendship :hugs:


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## deafgal01

MJ- I had forgotten my DH has a dr appt to follow up on the "high blood pressure" :dohh: Thanks for reminding me.:shrug: We'll see how it goes. :hugs:


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## cosita

Hi there ladies, 

I haven't been on in a few days and am amazed by everything thats been going on!! The general vibe is so upbeat and I love the positivity!* MJ* I am so happy that you got some hope and fingers crossed! 
*rdleela*, I am amazed by these proceedures that seem to clear up so quickly a possible blockage...girls on the other side of the Atlantic..have you heard of any of these proceedures??
Im sorry I'm not mentioning everyone personally but there are so many and with so many great stories it would take me all day! I am so happy for all you and your strength. *Deb* of course you deserve a mention. Your pregnancy is so important to all of us, and not only that, but your strength. Don't go away. 
As for me: I have been off work all week, with...wait for it...an abscess on my buttock!! It was the most painful thing I have ever experienced. I don't even feel the need to go through childbirth anymore!!:wacko: Anyway, the thing is, I may have a fistula...which is a pain in the ass :haha: but nothing major. The only thing is we had hoped to plan ICSI for end of June and Im thinking this may not be possible now. I mean if its not, thats ok...my health is more important but ragggeeee!!!!
On another note, a friend of ours who adopted an ethiopian boy 5 years ago came by the other day to talk us through the process. An amazing experience. If any of you want to hear about it, let me know. No matter what happens this will be another journey take in our lives. :happydance:
Have a great day!


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## Step Mummy

MJ Thanks for the kind words.

I agree with all the posts going through at the moment, we should all take a moment to praise ourselves withour ability to deal with all that life throws at us, and how we keep our chin up and carry on hoping, dealing with the next step. All with the same target, just different but long journeys to get there. Well done all of us, keep up with good work, surely if you persevere you get what you are searching for!:thumbup:
x


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## raelynn

Stinas - I had originally considered asking for Provera or Prometrium since my obgyn has prescribed it twice to end long cycles for me. Ironically, I've never had to fill the prescriptions because AF came naturally both times. But, since we're still trying to wait it out a bit so that we don't hit ER date too early for hubby to have another TESE (if necessary), I've been holding out for AF to show on her own for now. Of course all the worrying and hoping it happens in the right timeframe is making me a little crazy but I should be ok as long as I get AF this month. And, since I'm already on CD 67 I should be ok unless I have another 110 day cycle.

MJ - I completely agree! I don't know what I would do if I didn't have all you ladies to vent to or to mope with or to cheer me on. My family is great with support but it is a different kind of support coming from someone who actually understands this struggle because they're fighting through it too.

Cosita - I've always considered adoption our backup plan so it is great to hear that there are some good stories out there. I've always worried that after all this time and effort, we may still need to start a completely different battle for adoption


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## snd80

OMG MJ!!!!! :happydance: Soooo freaking excited for you guys! I know that made your day!!!! It sure made mine to see that! :flower:

And Wana and Sun and WW!!! We are all starting to fly on this thread!!! Ahhhhh!!!!! Hopefully we will all be due back to back!!! Loads of good luck and ps- watch for those hot flashes the first round of clomid! They are something serious! :haha:

I know we all don't officially "know" each other on here, but I feel we are one big family and it reallly excites me to see how each of you is progressing; towards the one thing we all so desire! :hugs: to everyone and thanks for all the well wishes the past few days!

Ok, so the procedure went very smooth! I didn't even know she was done! That simple! Felt just like a pap! Hubby was there with me and held my hand the whole time. I laid there for about 15 mins afterwards and left. I also laid in the back seat w/ a pillow under my bottom for about an hour on the way home. She said I didn't need to, but it made me feel better to do so. Now I have to go have my progesterone checked 5/9, then test on 5/16!!!! Hubby asked me this morning if I felt pg, and I told him no, just bloated! :haha: Then he told me it hit him that in 2 weeks, we might be parents, and I asked him if he was scared and he said yes! I told him it was too late to be scared!! :rofl: He is glowing and even kissed my belly this morning for good luck before I headed to work! It really excites me to see him like that! Complete 180 from where he was a year ago! He is more optomistic than I am, cause I just don't wanna get my hopes crushed, ya know? Sorry if tmi- but I did see a clump of cm last night w/ a dark blood ting in it. Just hope it was from the cath.! So now the dreaded 2WW! Feels soooo funny to even say that! Like it is for real this time and not just in my head!

Thanks again girls! Don't know what I would do without my cheerleaders!!!!! :hugs:


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## Deb111

Loving all the positive stories in here lately and snd - so glad to hear it all went well yesterday and that dh is so onboard with it all :thumbup:

I was just thinking, when I started this thread, I was looking for positive stories to give me a boost and the ONLY one I could find at the time, was MissAma with little Dara. How exciting it is that newbies can now find this thread, look at the first page and see all the positive updates! If it just gives them a little glimmer of hope along with the horrendous azoo diagnosis, then that something amazing that we've all done :kiss: :friends:


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## raelynn

Snd - So glad everything went well and that is so sweet that your DH is so excited. Good luck in your 2ww that just makes me all the more anxious to get rolling with IVF. 1 month seems so far away now when I know its really not that far off.


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## tigerlily1975

SND: Aww, how sweet is your hubby kissing your belly. Totally chuffed it all went smoothly and lots of :dust: :dust: heading your way!

Deb: You're absolutely right, it's good to see so many people making it through this horrendous journey with a bundle of joy at the end. Oh, and don't you dare think of leaving us! It's so good to hear how you are doing, it gives us all hope.

Tonnes of GOOD LUCK to Sun, Wibble and WanB, I'm crossing everything that this cycle is the one!! :dust:

As for us, my orders are to call the IVF/ICSI co-ordinator next week to arrange an appointment and we'll be starting ASAP. I'm petrified and excited in equal measures. I really could've done without news of my 'high-up' ovary, but here's hoping it'll work with us and move when we (hopefully) get to ER. 

... after all this time, can this really be happening? Does anyone else feel like this?

As always, much love, luck and :hugs: to all.

C xx


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## rdleela

cosita said:


> *rdleela*, I am amazed by these proceedures that seem to clear up so quickly a possible blockage...girls on the other side of the Atlantic..have you heard of any of these proceedures??




MJ73 said:


> *RDleela*; have you heard anything more yet re the surgery & tests for DH's testosterone?

I am amazed that I'm the first one on this thread that seems to be going down this road! I have searched this entire board and googled relentlessly, and I cannot find any other ladies that have posted on boards about these types of surgeries. I was looking for couples that have had success after these surgeries, but nada! Would appreciate if anyone has heard/experienced surgery for an obstruction!

DH just did two more testosterone blood tests today, and still waiting to hear on when this transrectal u/s appointment will be. DH harassed the dr.'s assitant who is making the appointment yesterday, supposed to hear back by Friday. Hopefully have an update for you ladies soon!

And I LOVE the positivity on this thread!! :happydance::hugs: for all you ladies!


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## Deb111

Rdleela - we were just told that if it was found to be a blockage, they woud most likely still do surgical sperm retrieval as procedures to unblock the blockage are not particularly effective. Nothing was ever mentioned about bypassing any blockage they might have found.

Tiger - starting treatment is scary isn't it? I remember hubby and I sitting in the urologists room and him saying, so we're ready to get going with the IVF side of things now if you're both ready? Terry straight away said 'can't wait' , I must have looked a bit worried and the urologist picked up on in straight away. He couldn't have put it better when he said "of course you're scared - you've been in limbo for so long and part of your brain thinks 'If i don't try to cross the road, I can't get run over' - I guess it's a type of self preservation, but at the end of the day; if we don't try, we'll never get across that road :thumbup:


----------



## wibble wobble

tigerlily1975 said:


> ... after all this time, can this really be happening? Does anyone else feel like this?
> 
> 
> C xx

I feel a bit like that, now treatment is arranged


----------



## wibble wobble

Snd that is so nice having your belly kissed by hubby for the baby that could be soon

Rdleela I've never seen any posts of people having bypass surgery.... Is it still in it's trial period? If I ever come across any I'll let you know

Raelynn the month will be up before you know it

Afm I finally heard back from my clinic at 430pm (I rang them just after 8 this morning) So you can imagine how wound up I was getting as the time ticked by add to that I've been having the worst AF I've had in an age... so much pain and so heavy. Anyway I start down regging on 25th May so 3 weeks tomorrow/today as it's past midnight. I'll get a letter in the next day or so to arrange the drug delivery and on 25th they'll give me a date for a scan for when they expect me to be ready for stimming... all of a sudden I'm more scared than excited!


----------



## MrsC8776

Hi ladies, 

I know I have only posted in here one time but right now I really need to find some others who can relate to what I'm going through at the moment. 

We are doing IVF because dh had a vasectomy and it healed up. So we have to have TESE along with ICSI. We are planning on starting everything soon and having ER in July. We have an appointment with the urologist next Thursday. Dh works in Afghanistan 6 weeks at a time and he's home for 6 weeks. With his schedule everything has to work out just right. Thats the back story. Now today I get a call from the clinic saying we need to schedule the TESE to be done before he goes back to work. He goes back on June 3rd! I'm freaking out because I wasn't expecting this right now (we were told it would be done on ER day), we haven't even met with the urologist, and June 3rd isn't that far away. I asked how much everything was going to be and had to call the billing department, urologist, their billing department, and then back to the clinic to tell them we can't do anything until after next Thursday. No one can give me a clear price range which is adding to my stress. So far all I have figured out is that the clinic charges $440, $110 for freezing, and the lady at the urologist office said "just plan on paying an extra $400-1,000." :wacko: I'm just very overwhelmed and stressed out. DH was very comforting during my breakdown and tried telling me it will all be ok. Mainly I'm just trying to find other wonderful ladies who can relate to what I'm feeling right now. Which I'm sure most if not all of you can. 

Sorry for the long post but thank you for listening/reading :flower:


----------



## deafgal01

MrsC :hugs: that sounds overwhelming for your situation. Hope it works out. :wacko: the stress we go thru in this journey is not fun. I am still paying off the medical bill I incurred from just the test in Jan on me. Try to have faith the billing will sort itself out somehow and i wish you luck in scheduling all this to happen very soon. :flower:


----------



## rdleela

wibble wobble said:


> Rdleela I've never seen any posts of people having bypass surgery.... Is it still in it's trial period? If I ever come across any I'll let you know

It actually has been done for a long time; for anyone interested: https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/452831-overview#a0101

And that's the COMPLICATED surgery; my hubby may have an ejaculatory duct obstruction which they go in through the urethra and it's simpler. (Called TURED) https://www.theturekclinic.com/ejaculatory-duct.html

Anyways, both have been done for YEARS.. and thought some history on the surgeries might be interesting to some!

Anyways, I guess the way I feel is, we're better off to try the free surgery first, and if it fails, on to paying for IVF...the statistics for the EDO TURED are not bad, so that's why we're willing to try this first...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17899434, especially since everything with me seems to be fine...


----------



## Stinas

raelynn- ohhh. I would wait it out too I guess! I hope she arrives soon!!!

snd - I cant believe how fast things have gone for you since I have joined this thread!!! Im soo happy for you!!! Yay! 

MrsC8776 - I hope all the timing works out for you and dh!! Its always hard to work all these apts around work, so I can only imagine how much harder it is for you since hes overseas. 

rdleela - The more we talk the more your sounding like a doctor! hehe love it!

All the positivity in here is giving me tons of hope! 4 more full days until our apt!! Im praying for some good news! and some asap testing!


----------



## raelynn

So...I _think_ AF has arrived. I guess I'll have a better feel for things tomorrow but I'm just not sure yet. I have been spotting for about 4 days now (or maybe having really really really light AF) but since they say to call on day 1 of full flow I just can't count this. Besides, I tend to spot occasionally throughout my crazy long cycles. Unfortunately, since my cycles are so irregular, I have nothing else to go by but tonight I felt some minor cramping and it seems like it might be getting heavier. How do I know? Of course it would be this cycle where I have the weirdest stuff happening since timing does matter. I'm so worried I'll miscalculate AF and have to trash this cycle. Especially since my next cycle probably won't be for another 3 months.


----------



## Stinas

raelynn - I hope it is AF!!!! Even though its hard...try to keep yourself busy and not think of it...the smallest things set AF back......it happens to me allllllll the time when I want af to come. Its annoying. My longest cycle was 58 days, so I can only imagine how you feel!


----------



## wibble wobble

rdleela said:


> wibble wobble said:
> 
> 
> Rdleela I've never seen any posts of people having bypass surgery.... Is it still in it's trial period? If I ever come across any I'll let you know
> 
> It actually has been done for a long time; for anyone interested: https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/452831-overview#a0101
> 
> And that's the COMPLICATED surgery; my hubby may have an ejaculatory duct obstruction which they go in through the urethra and it's simpler. (Called TURED) https://www.theturekclinic.com/ejaculatory-duct.html
> 
> Anyways, both have been done for YEARS.. and thought some history on the surgeries might be interesting to some!
> 
> Anyways, I guess the way I feel is, we're better off to try the free surgery first, and if it fails, on to paying for IVF...the statistics for the EDO TURED are not bad, so that's why we're willing to try this first...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17899434, especially since everything with me seems to be fine...Click to expand...

I'd try the surgery too, if it meant saving money by not needing Ivf. I can't believe the surgeries have been going for years and yet everyone I've spoken to with obstructive azoo have only ever been offered pesa/tesa/tese & ssr. Maybe the Uk have no urologists willing to perform corrective surgery


----------



## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> So...I _think_ AF has arrived. I guess I'll have a better feel for things tomorrow but I'm just not sure yet. I have been spotting for about 4 days now (or maybe having really really really light AF) but since they say to call on day 1 of full flow I just can't count this. Besides, I tend to spot occasionally throughout my crazy long cycles. Unfortunately, since my cycles are so irregular, I have nothing else to go by but tonight I felt some minor cramping and it seems like it might be getting heavier. How do I know? Of course it would be this cycle where I have the weirdest stuff happening since timing does matter. I'm so worried I'll miscalculate AF and have to trash this cycle. Especially since my next cycle probably won't be for another 3 months.

Hope it is AF. I've never had really long cycles but I sometimes got an AF and I wasn't sure if it was real AF as it was so light... someone did say to me though, that if you've had any red blood spotting then it is likely to be AF... brown blood or discharge is old rubbish just finding it's way out, left overs from a previous cycle. Not sure how true that is tho


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi Raelynn, have you considerd taking your temperature every morning - I don't know if this would help in your circumstances, this helps me greatly in predicting when AF is due to arrive, as you always get a drop the morning AF comes, or if you don't come on until overnight, then definately the next morning has had the temp drop. I know this won't help you this cycle, but perhaps next month? FYI I have brown spotting for 2-3 days prior to AF, then 2 days full flow then back to brown again for anotehr 2-3 days! So fingers crossed the full flow is there for you!


----------



## Deb111

Raelynn - fingers crossed for you

Rdleela - really interesting links thanks. I know that mTESE has only very recently been done in the UK - in fact the NHS urologist told us there was nowhere that did it in the UK, only the US (but he was wrong! :winkwink:) I guess we're way behind you over here. Plus, as our private urologist explained to us, this is a fairly rare problem in the big scheme of things and often not treatable and so small countries like us here aren't going to offer loads of treatments because the numbers of men here are quite small. Obviously in the US, you're talking much larger numbers

MrsC - so sorry for all the stress. I think we've all been there to an extent - chasing up appts, test results, one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing - and it's so frustrating. Obviously it's even harder for you trying to fir things in with dh is around. My only bit of advice is to keep pestering them until you get the answers you need


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## MrsC8776

Thanks ladies, I was just having a hard day yesterday. Everything is fine now and I just have to learn to go with the flow of everything. The TESE is scheduled for the 22nd and the consult is scheduled with the urologist on the 10th. Can anyone tell me how long the down time usually is after the TESE? The clinic said he should be down for the day after the procedure and thats it but I'm wondering if this was true for everyones DH.


----------



## Deb111

When hubby had his first sperm retrieval on the NHS, he was told as he was having the op on a Thursday, that he'd be fine to return to work on the Monday - BUT no way was he ready to! He spent at least 5 days in bed - BUT he was in a lot of pain straight after the procedure and could barely walk, whereas the other 3 men who had the same op on the same day, walked out 2 hours before him looking like nothing had happened - so I guess everyone's different.

However, when he had his much more invasive mTESE privately, he had NO pain whatsoever from the minute he woke up and whilst he took a few days off work because his job is quite physical, he could have easily gone back the next day otherwise.


----------



## MrsC8776

Thanks Deb, I appreciate you sharing that info. Sorry to hear the your DH was in so much pain after the first one.

I'm thinking some good boxer briefs, a bag of peas, and lots of rest then he should be ok. I do feel bad for him that he has to go through this but he is strong and I know he will be ok. Plus with IVF I will get my fair share of shots. In the end I think we will both be much stronger.


----------



## Deb111

I don't think I explained it properly - the pain he had was more in his abdomen from the pulling they said they'd been doing, but also he is overweight and they give them a 'one size' jock strap, which clearly was too tight and putting pressure on his abdomen area - it eased a lot once he was able to take that off. He also got very constipated from the painkillers, which again, made his abdomen very uncomfortable. I also think the fact that we did not have ogod news with this procedure made his recovery harder.

Youd dh will need a tight fitting, supportive pair of briefs after the procedure and maybe for a few days, just to give him some support. I'm sure he will be fine :thumbup:


----------



## raelynn

Step Mummy - I do temp but sometimes it isn't so helpful if I end up having an annovulatory cycle. I haven't had one so far but they're common with PCOS.

My spotting actually stopped today so I guess AF is stilling holding off. No worries though because every extra day gets us closer to that 3 month mark we're shooting for.

MrsC - I tried to keep hubby on bed rest for as long as possible after his TESE. He stayed in bed for about 2 days before he got bored and started wandering about the house. After 4 he was doing stairs and such with no problem (just taking things a little slower). He was feeling fine soon after the problem was trying to keep him from doing too much too fast so he had a chance to heal! I also bought 2 of those hot/cold gel packs and froze them so I could rotate them every 30 min.


----------



## Soili

Hi guys! I just wanted to pop in quickly and see if anyone here had similar SA results. Because I'm having hard time finding anyone in the same situation on BnB... And this appears to be the only active thread discussing male factor.

The count was great, 46 million per ml, but 0 motility and 0 morphology. DH's being refered to andrologist and will go for second SA. But in the meantime it was Ob/gyn who read the results and it seemed pretty clear to me that she didn't know how to properly read the whole panel. She insisted that it was likely due to radiation treatment DH had about 20 years years ago. But it doesn't match my research at all. Radiation usually has short-term effect. Long-term would have affected the count as well and apparently it's not the issue. Besides at the time, DH was assured that since the treatment was local, it would have no affect on fertility. I so regret not asking for a copy of results... Having researched it for 3 days only, I think I know more on the subject than she did, but I need more details...

Anyone? :) Or maybe if you know someone on the board who got similar result? Even if it was one-time fluke (that's what we're hoping for anyway).


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## deafgal01

I wish I knew of what to say or do to help you but I haven't been in that situation. Since there's sperms, you're still in luck so don't give up. I think though things can be adjusted to increase the motility and morphology, but I'm not an expert in that. Maybe one of the other ladies here will be more helpful than I can be.


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## rdleela

Soili, I can't help you either, sorry! But I did just want to say that I, also, research the CRAP out of all of DH's test results...I get a copy of each one and just google everything...that's why you think I'm sounding like a Dr., Sinas! :) Our GP keeps telling me he wants to hire me, lol. I love the power of knowledge, and I think it's why I've gotten so far so fast, wouldn't have found our surgeon if I hadn't been researching. So anyways, you go, girl, keep researching! Keep the Dr.'s on their toes! :)


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## SunUp

I love https://scholar.google.com/ and similar sites, I am always looking for more information, however a lot of sites have some inaccurate information - so I always look for respectable sources of information.


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## silverbell

Hi ladies. Just wanted to report I got another early AF this cycle. Hoping Progesterone will enable me to have a half decent luteal phase. :cry:

Hope everybody is good.


----------



## Stinas

silverbell - Im sorry!! 

Soili - i wish I could help, but im pretty new to all this still....but like the other ladies said...you still have sperm, so thats a pretty big plus. If this is his first SA, there is a possibility it could change...and even if it does not, they could put him on some meds for a few months.


----------



## deafgal01

Oh SB :hugs: No... That sucks.

Dr confirmed high blood pressure so DH got another medicine to take. Poor guy. I joked that he needs to ask for duct tape next time when the dr wants to prescribe more medicine. He's literally falling apart on me.


----------



## rdleela

silverbell said:


> Hi ladies. Just wanted to report I got another early AF this cycle. Hoping Progesterone will enable me to have a half decent luteal phase. :cry:

Hey, Silverbell, so sorry AF got you! :(
I also have a short luteal phase, bang on 9 days every month. I tried progesterone (prometrium) as vaginal suppositories back when we were still TTC, for two cycles. It worked awesome!! Started them on 3dpo and they kept AF away until I stopped taking them on 14dpo (neg tests, of course), and then it took 2 days for AF to arrive, so I went to 16dpo both those cycles, and if there would have been sperm (wish I would have known!), implantation would have had more time to successfully happen. So hopefully they work for you, too! But be warned, OMG, they give you serious pregnancy symptoms...I will def be using progesterone again!


----------



## Stinas

deafgal01 - Poor guy!!!


----------



## Soili

Whoa, guys, you're terrific! Thank you so much for the words of encouragement! I think I really needed to be able to talk to someone who would understand, feeling a bit isolated at the moment.

deafgal01 - it's funny, but I'm pretty sure I already know you! We must be stalking same journals? ;) I'm certain I remember your username from other threads! 

rdleela - LOVE the avatar! :D Thank you the supporting my googling habits ;) I'm one of those people who find peace in information. I like to go to doctor's appointments knowing what to expect and I research my own symptoms before I even consider doctors. Medical establishment rarely likes people like us :D I wish doctors would be a bit more flexible about the way they deal with patients. To some it's comforting knowing little, to others it's complete opposite.

SunUp - thank you so much for the link, it's brilliant! Straight to studies and articles, pure awesomeness! 

Stinas - we're hoping the second SA will be a bit better! I've ordered a ton of vitamins and supplements for him to take, really hoping it'll get some of the guys moving.


----------



## SunUp

Sorry Silverbell :(

SND how is it going ?? When do you get your blood levels checked?


----------



## Deb111

Sun-up - don't forgert to let me know what update you want putting on the front page - I'm losing track with so many members now :dohh:

Soili - as others ahve said, the fact that you have sperm is great news. I know it may not be ideal, but worse case scenario - I don't see any reason why they wouldn 't be able to do ICSI. They inject a single sperm into a single egg with ICSI so they don't have to be motile - in fact I saw the procedure on TV once - they actually stun the sperm to stop them from moving so they can get hold of them!

Just found the link - fascinating stuff! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXhpkCqZfdA


----------



## deafgal01

Soili- you've probably seen my username around. I do get around. :-= I think it's from one of the other girls' journals that we both stalk or something. :shrug: It'll come to us later I'm sure. :thumbup: So glad we were able to help you out a little and cheer ya up. (edit: I just did a search and I think you know me from seeing my posts in Stash777's journal).

Stinas- I know... If it's one thing, it's another too for the poor DHs to deal with. :dohh: I just hope it's not going to mean any bad news at the next SA appt in June. :shrug: We'll see soon enough- about one more month.


----------



## Deb111

Deafgal - poor hubby - but it's good that it was identified and is now going to be treated xx


----------



## deafgal01

Deb- that's also true. I'm grateful we found out this soon and not later. We only found out cuz of his eye exam- he was getting new glasses and they found spots on the eyes which indicates high blood pressure, so he followed up with the dr (knowing he has a family history of high blood pressure and viola)... Medicine for it. I asked if he told the dr about trying for a baby (to ensure the medicine won't interfere with his fertility meds) and he said he had.


----------



## SunUp

Hey Deb, Sorry I forgot.... I'm doing IUI with Clomid - that will work for me.


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## deafgal01

SunUp- :dust: Good luck! Hope it works for ya!


----------



## MrsC8776

Deb do you mind if I steal your video and add it to another thread? I watched it and I was amazed by the whole thing. I think it's a great video and it really explains a lot. Thank you for posting it!! :flower:


----------



## Deb111

Not at all :thumbup:

Just tried to add link rather than embed it in my message but it did the same again! If you need an actual link - go to you tube and search for 'bang goes the theory ICSI procedure' and it should come up xx


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## MrsC8776

Thanks, it's ok I can just copy it from a reply. :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Ah! Ok :thumbup::dohh:


----------



## Stinas

Deb - That was a great video!!! Very interesting!


----------



## Soili

Whoa, Deb, thanks so much for the video! Is it weird that I felt bad for the first couple? 10 eggs they collected, couldn't they have ICSI'ed 5 of them? It doesn't seem like ICSI takes that much more work...

From what I understood in my research is that ICSI can still be done if they're vital, but just not moving. If they're in fact dead cells, then the results are not too peachy.

I have this doubt though that might seem strange... But does the "quality" of ejaculation matter at all? That was the first ever SA DH did and he said that he couldn't get over the pressure. So it was nowhere near the normal sample. He even thought that it's not worth it bringing it for testing.


----------



## snd80

SunUp said:


> SND how is it going ?? When do you get your blood levels checked?

Get progesterone checked Weds.... but I am freaking out a little bit this morning! Sorry if TMI following, but here is why; I got up about 5:50 this morning to pee. I went and laid back down but couldn't go back to sleep, so I went ahead and got up about 6:10 to start cleaning on the house. I went in the bathroom to pull up the rugs, and guess I didn't flush the toliet good, and seen a red solid dot floating in the toliet! Today is 5DPO, so IDK if it was the egg or what! I almost didn't flush it and started to scoop it out, but didn't. It was the size of like one of those hard marshmellows in hot cocoa mix. Yeah, that was the only thing I could think to compare the size to. But I am scared shitless! I feel like I have been soooooooo careful since getting back home, so IDK what I could have done if it is the case! :nope: I have a call into Jackson to talk to them about it, so we shall see!


----------



## SunUp

Hey SND, if it doesn't work, they egg comes out with your period, not as a 'dot'. And I highly doubt it could be that big yet. I've known some people with early miscarriages and you can't even see any tissue, so I wouldn't think too much of the dot.

Sending you lots of sticky vibes!!!


----------



## tigerlily1975

silverbell said:


> Hi ladies. Just wanted to report I got another early AF this cycle. Hoping Progesterone will enable me to have a half decent luteal phase. :cry:
> 
> Hope everybody is good.

I'm so sorry, SilverBell :hugs:

I hope you and DH are doing okay. You will get there, hun.

:hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Hey SND,

I hope you're okay and that you've been able to get ahold of someone to ease your mind. 

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

deafgal01 said:


> Oh SB :hugs: No... That sucks.
> 
> Dr confirmed high blood pressure so DH got another medicine to take. Poor guy. I joked that he needs to ask for duct tape next time when the dr wants to prescribe more medicine. He's literally falling apart on me.


Aww, I hope DH is okay. It really is one thing after another, isn't it? It's good that you have eachother to get through all this. 

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Thanks for the video, Deb, it's really interesting, but also freaking me out, too! I see you've got a little lemon on-board now, hope you're both doing well.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## snd80

Thanks girls! Talked to Jackson, she said nothing to worry about (I know she thinks I am crazy... LOL!), and if anything it may be a good sign as some have implantation bleeding. God let's hope so anyways!

Sun, MJ and Wan.... how's the clomid treating you? Burning up and crying for no reason yet? :haha:

DG- I know how it is w/ hubby's meds... my house looks like a drug store with all he takes! :nope:

How is everyone else today? :flower:


----------



## snd80

Thinking of SB today! :hugs: Did they not check your progesterone one week after the IUI?


----------



## Deb111

Snd - at 4 weeks pregnant (so effectively the day you test would potentially show up at 4 weeks) the embryo is the size of a poppy seed so nothing to worry about on that front. IB sounds a good possibility though! :thumbup:


----------



## SunUp

SND, I've actually been doing ok....... I get hot flashes at night sometimes anyway so I wouldn't recognize if Clomid caused anything. I'll let you know tomorrow after my scan! :)


----------



## Snowybird

Hi all.

This thread came up when I googled azoospermia and having taken a few weeks to read the whole thread, I would like to say what a lovely group of inspiring women you all are.

The support you have given each other has encouraged me to sign up to this site and it is so nice to see the positive stories on this thread.

It is great to see the success stories on here and good luck to everyone still waiting, fingers crossed your time comes soon.

xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Welcome Snowybird :hi:


----------



## Stinas

SND - Hi! I also dont think you should be worried....I was thinking IB as well! FX!!!! 

Snowybird- Welcome!


----------



## wibble wobble

Welcome snowybird

snd hope it is implatation

Silverbird sorry AF arrived early again

big hugs to everyone

afm not so patiently counting down the days til the 25th, I've sorted with work to finish at 8pm latest once I start injecting so I can do them around 9pm. My boss was pretty shocked that the injection process is going to take up to 5 weeks and he was even more shocked when I said I would be taking time off after transfer.... I'm entitled to it so I'll be having every second I can. I just need to see my personnel manager to get all the details... before she leaves and I have to go through it all again with someone new!!!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Just a fly by, but I am *so* upset. DH's urology appointment needs to be rescheduled. They called my cell but didn't leave a message, so I had no idea who it was. When I got home, they left me a voicemail to call them back but they were already closed. We waited too long to have more delays. I'm so upset.


----------



## Stinas

Canadian - Im sorry!!! That sucks! Dont they know how stressful this is already? It makes me super mad! 

wibble wobble - Its good that you are able to take off! You earned the time off, so you should use it as you please! 

As for me...tom is dh urologist apt!!


----------



## Deb111

Canadian - How annoying! I really hope they can book you another appt soon. It is so horrible when you're going through this kind of thing - you live from one appt to the next in the hope of good news and progress and then something like this happens :hugs:

Stinas - hope all goes well tomorrow :hugs:

Snowybird - welcome :flower: Are you dealing with azoopsermia issues too?

SB - thinking of you and sending you hugs :hugs:

WW - I'm glad you're getting things sorted in advance. I started off feeling bad about all the time off I was having for appts - and even more so these days, but I've been working at this school for 9 years now and have worked bloomin' hard for them. When I did my risk assessment with the head, she told me I was entitled to time off for appts and not to feel bad about it - so I don't anymore. It's not like these appts can be made to fit round work like a dental appt can be 

Hope everyone else is doing ok :thumbup: xx


----------



## deafgal01

CanadianM- that's awful. It's hard on you (and us) when we 'miss' the window for rescheduling appts that could be easily done sooner. :hugs: :flower:

Snowybird- :hi: Welcome to the group. We're always sorry to see new members join the group but we're glad we can provide support (and positive happy stories for the others to look up to).

Snd- I hope it is IB and you're knocked up. I want more bfp from the ladies in here.

Stinas- good luck tomorrow

WW- :hugs: Glad you're getting time off for all of this stuff. It's important to do that when we need to.

:hi: Everyone else. Hope y'alls are doing good.


----------



## rdleela

OMG, Canadian, what a pile of bull! That sucks! As the Impatience Queen over here, I completely understand how frustrated you must be! I am still waiting to get this last u/s booked, we keep harassing the administrators at the dr's office who are supposed to be booking it and THEY keep putting it off, really starting to make me mad...supposedly (I say that very sarcastically) they are supposed to be booking it tmrw and letting us know...

SND, totally hope it's implantation!! FX'd!

Stinas, CAN'T WAIT to hear how your appt goes!!

And welcome, Snowybird! Would love to hear your story when you're ready to share!


----------



## tigerlily1975

Stinas: Good luck with the appointment!

SND: Oh, IB would make total sense. Keeping everything crossed!

Canadian: Ah, what a pain in the a**e! As they're the ones requesting the re-scheduling, hopefully they'll be able to give you a cancellation.

WW: I hope work isn't giving you too much grief. It's amazing how they'll expect you to drop everything to stay on for a bit, come in at the weekend etc. for them, but when you need the time off they're soon "oohing" and "ahhing". Good luck!

:hi: and :hugs: to all,

C xx


----------



## Stinas

Ok ladies...i have some news that kind of made me feel better! 

Ok so...the doc said that everything pretty much looks "normal" and all his testing makes him really lean towards a blockage(which we already knew, but nice to hear from a second doctor). Plus he said he probably is making sperm...which again made me feel better, but again....we all know how it is to get our hopes shot, so not getting overly excited. 
This thursday he will go in for a scrotal ultrasound and in 3 weeks from now he will go in through the penis to see if there is indeed a blockage and what the location is. If the blockage is towards the tip, we will need to do a biopsy and IVF....if it is towards the balls, he will do surgery to bypass the blockage and basically re direct the flow. 
Im excited we are getting answers! 

rdleela - sounds similar to you!


----------



## SunUp

Just a quick update from me -

Went in for my scan today, CD12 after clomid CD 4-8. When the Dr looked at the right ovary, he and the nurse said 'wow'! Apparently things are looking better than they had planned. My biggest follicle is 15mm. :yipee: He wasnt able to see my Left but he said if the right is any indication then things are looking really good. He wants me to come back Thursday and said its very possible I will take the trigger injection Thursday and have IUI both Friday and Saturday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!! I am SO excited!:happydance:

Which means I could find out about a BFP over memorial day weekend! Fingers Crossed!


----------



## snd80

Yay Sun!!!!!!! Can't remember.... were you guys doing donor? So many girls on here, it is hard to keep up! But YAY for progress!!!! Come on ovies!!!! :happydance:

And to anyone on here considering using donor :spermy:, I have about a month and a half of access left to xytex.com for viewing profiles and picts, so if interested, PM me for the login info...

Tomorrow is progesterone testing for me! Can't wait! :dance: Went by the gym today to pay my dues, and I have gained a pound in a week! :nope: I want to go back and start walking a bit, but everyone is screaming at me not to til we find out something.... so damn if you do, and damn if you don't! :growlmad:


----------



## Stinas

SunUp - Yay!!! Thats great news!! 

snd - One pound is not that bad! Dont put yourself down! Taking short walks should not effect anything. If it makes you feel better, do it.


----------



## deafgal01

Sunup :dust: Hoping for a bfp from you when you do test at end of month. :thumbup:

Stinas- that is some good news! I'll be praying for more good news when that happens. :hugs:


----------



## rdleela

Stinas said:


> Ok ladies...i have some news that kind of made me feel better!
> 
> Ok so...the doc said that everything pretty much looks "normal" and all his testing makes him really lean towards a blockage(which we already knew, but nice to hear from a second doctor). Plus he said he probably is making sperm...which again made me feel better, but again....we all know how it is to get our hopes shot, so not getting overly excited.
> This thursday he will go in for a scrotal ultrasound and in 3 weeks from now he will go in through the penis to see if there is indeed a blockage and what the location is. If the blockage is towards the tip, we will need to do a biopsy and IVF....if it is towards the balls, he will do surgery to bypass the blockage and basically re direct the flow.
> Im excited we are getting answers!
> 
> rdleela - sounds similar to you!

Awesome news! And "yea!" for getting some tests done ASAP....so just wondering (cause this IS exactly what it's sounding like for us) if the blockage is towards the tip (like ejaculatory duct blockage), why is he moving you right along to IVF? Just wondering cause our specialist would do the surgery through the urethra to try and dislodge the blockage....hmmmm??? This is the surgery I'm talking about: https://www.theturekclinic.com/ejaculatory-duct.html

The by pass surgery is this one (vasoepididymostomy): https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/452831-overview#aw2aab6b2b1aa

Very interested to understand the differing opinions...Sorry, I'm a research nut! Can you get your dr to call me, please? lol


----------



## Stinas

Honestly....i dont know....but I will be bringing it up in 3 weeks when I go.


----------



## silverbell

snd80 said:


> Thinking of SB today! :hugs: Did they not check your progesterone one week after the IUI?

No, snd, they don't do that at my clinic and they don't offer Progesterone as a standard either, even though they do at a lot of other clinics in England. I wish they'd all just do the same thing :nope:

Been thinking of you and hoping the red dot was just some implantation bleeding. Keeping everything crossed for you.



Stinas said:


> Ok ladies...i have some news that kind of made me feel better!
> 
> Ok so...the doc said that everything pretty much looks "normal" and all his testing makes him really lean towards a blockage(which we already knew, but nice to hear from a second doctor). Plus he said he probably is making sperm...which again made me feel better, but again....we all know how it is to get our hopes shot, so not getting overly excited.
> This thursday he will go in for a scrotal ultrasound and in 3 weeks from now he will go in through the penis to see if there is indeed a blockage and what the location is. If the blockage is towards the tip, we will need to do a biopsy and IVF....if it is towards the balls, he will do surgery to bypass the blockage and basically re direct the flow.
> Im excited we are getting answers!

That's great - lots of answers and it all sounds very, very promising. 



SunUp said:


> Just a quick update from me -
> 
> Went in for my scan today, CD12 after clomid CD 4-8. When the Dr looked at the right ovary, he and the nurse said 'wow'! Apparently things are looking better than they had planned. My biggest follicle is 15mm. :yipee: He wasnt able to see my Left but he said if the right is any indication then things are looking really good. He wants me to come back Thursday and said its very possible I will take the trigger injection Thursday and have IUI both Friday and Saturday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!! I am SO excited!:happydance:
> 
> Which means I could find out about a BFP over memorial day weekend! Fingers Crossed!

Keeping everything crossed for you - that's a really great result for CD12. Not long now :happydance:


----------



## Snowybird

Thank you all for your welcomes.

Here is our story, hopefully I manage to keep it brief!

Hubby is azoospermic, although not completely unexpected. Cause is the side-effect of intensive chemotherapy 8 years ago. Fertility was expected to return but sperm banked as a precaution. (Hubby is thankfully completely healthy now and I will always be grateful for that)

When we started TTC (2 years ago) where told that should be fertile but may take longer to conceive than others, so it wasn't until over a year of TTC that SA was done. 

SA was done July 2011 and only just now referred to Assisted conception unit.

Since SA, I have had a lap & dye done under a general gynaecologist clinic, endo was discovered and removed and dye flowed fine. This clinic then referred us to to Assisted conception unit at another hospital. ACU won't accept referral from anyone other then GP, so more delays in getting that sorted! 

Finally last week the ACU accepted the referral but are saying I need a HSG and hysterscopy done by their gynaecologist before they can recommend we are added to the NHS waiting list for IVF / IUI.... and are surprised neither of these were done before the lap & dye. 

Last week I was given appointment with the ACU gynaecologist in mid July, but a few pleading phone calls later and I now have a pre-assessment appointment this week with a nurse in ACU (a cancellation came up just before I called) and the lady on the phone was hopeful that the gynaecologist stage can be skipped - fingers tightly crossed on this on but not getting my hopes up!

Sorry looks like I failed in keeping that short! 

Seeing all the stories on here and the journeys you have all been through / are going through really helps put it all in perspective and gives me more hope that we will get our family sometime, even if it seems like it is taking forever now.

Look forward to seeing some more successes soon, you definitely all deserve it.
xx


----------



## Deb111

Hi Snowybird - I'm so glad hubby is healthy now :thumbup: and great that you have sperm banked :thumbup:

I hope you get some good news at your appt and make some progress - the waiting is one of the hardest parts of this journey xx


----------



## WANBMUM

Hi girls,

Will this road ever become easy??? Our IUI this month has been abandoned. :( I went for my cd 12 scan today. I've got too many follicles,5 on each side so we have to abandon this cycle. I'm so upset. 
It is funny really as I was so worried I would have none and now I have too many! Be careful what you pray for. Darn why did I pray for follicles!!!


----------



## snd80

Oh WAN! I'm soooo sorry hon! :cry:


----------



## snd80

Warning: Panicky Rant Ahead!

*sigh* Girls, I think I may be out. Today is 8DPO... shouldn't I be feeling something!? I feel fine, and it is scaring the crap outta me! I mean, my boobs should at least be sore, or tired as shit, right? I had a dream last night that I tested and seen a +, and I felt myself get soooo excited that I literally had to wake myself up to come back to reality so I wouldn't wake up thinking it was true! And the red dot the other day, it was only 5DPO, so IB wouldn't be possible cause it was too early! I'm going crazy here! IDK if I can make it another week!!!! I need to know one way or the other so I can get on with life! My double chin is starting to come back, I need to get back in the gym if I'm not pg.... This has been the LONGEST week and a half ever! :cry: I'm literally loosing it!

Sorry.... I'm done now.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Stinas: That's great news! I hope the US went well, too.

SunUP: That all sounds fantastic, good luck!

SnowyBird: Gosh, it sounds like you have both really been through it, but thank goodness your DH well now. Well done on bagging an earlier appointment, here's hoping things will start moving! 

WanB: Aww :hugs: What a nightmare! It's not going to help right now, but hopefully they can learn from this cycle and get it absolutely spot on for the next one. For now, more :hugs:

SND: Firstly :hugs: :hugs: but you go right ahead and rant away, that's what we're all here for. I can't speak from experience, but I know many ladies who have had NO symptoms at all then went on to get a BFP. It's still early days, too, but I know what you mean, this whole journey just seems to be about waiting. Please be kind to yourself and don't worry, we'll help you get through it :hugs:

Big :hi: to everyone else, hope you're all having a good week :hugs:

AFM we have our IVF/ICSI planning appointment on the 29th May.. I'm. So. Freaking. Scared. I keep reading about injections.. ladies who do this, how bad is it? I mean, really? Do you get your OH to help? I think my DH would faint even if I suggested it!

Love to all, 

C xx


----------



## Deb111

So sorry Wanb :hugs:

Snd - 8dpo is very early for symptoms. The ONLY symptom I had (and I only see that as a symptom in hindsight) was at about 11dpo when my sense of smell was crazily heightened. The red dot could have easily been a bit of blood left from the IUI procedure. You're not out of the running yet girl! :hugs:

Tiger - the injections really are fine. The main thing with me the first few times was sitting there for 10 mind plucking up the courage to stick it in. Once I'd plucked up the courage, it was barely noticeable. The needle is minute (don't be put off by the needle you use to mix / draw up the fluid!!!) and as long as you do it at the angle they tell you to and withdraw it steadily at the same angle, you'll be fine - I never even had a bruise (but that may have been to do with my nice layer of fat!). I have read enough stories of women on here who were TERRIFIED of needles and were besides themselves at the thought of having to inject, only to hear them doing it like a pro 2 days later!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Snd - sorry the terror of the 2ww has hit you. The second week is always the worst.
My symptoms started at 9/10 dpiui but tbh they just seemed to come and go to the point i wasnt sure if i was imagining it! and they still come and go now as well! So try not to worry, I know it's easier said than done but you just can't tell until you test! Xx


----------



## snd80

Thanks girls! I am just being a drama queen today! But it really hit me hard this morning after that dream! And hubby is *NO* help! He thinks I should be puking my guts out by now, and it just makes me wonder, ya know? :blush:


----------



## Pink Lolly

I didn't have any sickness until 6 weeks if that makes you feel better! And tiredness kicked in around the same time x


----------



## snd80

Just got the call on my progesterone test results..... 14.8! Last month they were 12.2, so she said that was great! Hope it's a good sign! :happydance:

I went to the dollar store on my lunch break and bought a $1 cheapie test, so might test on Mother's Day with it, but then again I'll probably be too chicken sh*t to test early, so IDK why I bought it! Just to say I have one I guess! If it's -, then I can blame it on being a cheapie! :haha: I'll buy "the good one's" when I go to Wal-Mart Sat. morning for Weds testing....


----------



## snd80

Pink Lolly said:


> I didn't have any sickness until 6 weeks if that makes you feel better! And tiredness kicked in around the same time x

YES! That made me feel MUCH better! =) And so did Deb's smells....


----------



## rdleela

WANBMUM, I am so sorry your cycle got abandoned! That must really, really suck! I hope that next cycle you'll have one big follicle take over!

snd80, oh, I do and don't envy you right now, all at the same time! lol
On one hand, so happy that you are TTC right now! How awesome is that?!?! On the other hand, I totally remember exactly what the TWW and testing feels like, and what can I say besides you're not out till the witch shows! Everyone/every preganancy is different, so all you can do is relax and be so very thankful that you are back in the TTC ring!!! FX'd for you!

SnowyBird, thanks for sharing your story with us, and very happy that you have a healthy DH! WAITING sucks...I am having a hard time getting an u/s appt book for my DH right now and it's driving me NUTS. Patience is not easy for me, so I hear ya...

AFM, still freaking waiting...and waiting...sigh...Hope everyone else is doing good!


----------



## raelynn

Tiger - I'm the same way! I think I finally get up the nerve to accept I'll have to do injections and then I get all worried again. I am a HUGE needle wuss. Before all this TTC I couldn't even have someone talking about needles without getting the willies. Of course, with all the blood tests I've had just to get to this point I am getting a bit better. Someone once told me the way to get over a fear of needles was to get pregnant. Wow was that true! And, we're not even pregnant yet. My hubby is the same way too. Our RE told him he'd have to give me the trigger shot (the one in the butt!) and I am most scared for that one because he's so afraid of doing it.


----------



## snd80

You're right RD, and I'm sorry for being insensative to those who aren't at that point yet... just didn't think about "what if I was in their shoes?".

Have a good weekend everyone.


----------



## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Hi girls,
> 
> Will this road ever become easy??? Our IUI this month has been abandoned. :( I went for my cd 12 scan today. I've got too many follicles,5 on each side so we have to abandon this cycle. I'm so upset.
> It is funny really as I was so worried I would have none and now I have too many! Be careful what you pray for. Darn why did I pray for follicles!!!

WANBMUM, I am so, so, so sorry :hugs: I was very close to having my second cycle cancelled as my clinic only accept 2 follicles and there was a third looming its ugly head, but thankfully it stopped growing in time. I can't imagine how upset you must feel. I'm so sorry. But on the one hand at least you know you'll have no problems producing eggs. I guess you have to look at the silver linings or else you'd fall apart. That's how we all get through this azoo stuff, right? :hugs: Are they going to adjust your drugs so you don't get too many follies next time?



Snowybird said:


> Thank you all for your welcomes.
> 
> Here is our story, hopefully I manage to keep it brief!
> 
> Hubby is azoospermic, although not completely unexpected. Cause is the side-effect of intensive chemotherapy 8 years ago. Fertility was expected to return but sperm banked as a precaution. (Hubby is thankfully completely healthy now and I will always be grateful for that)
> Look forward to seeing some more successes soon, you definitely all deserve it.
> xx

Welcome, Snowybird. Lovely to meet you. I'm sorry about the chemo and the azoo, but it's fabulous that they got sperm banked :happydance: Great news! Hopefully the rest of your treatments will go quickly and they can get on with things and get the ball rolling. So many of us have delays with this diagnosis and it's so utterly frustrating because we all know trying naturally in the meantime is never going to work. Hope it goes quick x



snd80 said:


> Warning: Panicky Rant Ahead!
> 
> *sigh* Girls, I think I may be out. Today is 8DPO... shouldn't I be feeling something!? I feel fine, and it is scaring the crap outta me! I mean, my boobs should at least be sore, or tired as shit, right? I had a dream last night that I tested and seen a +, and I felt myself get soooo excited that I literally had to wake myself up to come back to reality so I wouldn't wake up thinking it was true! And the red dot the other day, it was only 5DPO, so IB wouldn't be possible cause it was too early! I'm going crazy here! IDK if I can make it another week!!!! I need to know one way or the other so I can get on with life! My double chin is starting to come back, I need to get back in the gym if I'm not pg.... This has been the LONGEST week and a half ever! :cry: I'm literally loosing it!
> 
> Sorry.... I'm done now.

Bless you :hugs: You're still early and I despise the 2ww because it just messes with your head. I've had 2wws with absolutely zero symptoms. I've had 2wws with loads of symptoms. I've seen BFPs from those with zero symptoms and BFPs from those with loads of symptoms. I wish there was a single symptom that we could all recognise as being a universal 'you're preggers!' symptom :haha:

Keep your chin up and I'm still keeping everything crossed for you.



tigerlily1975 said:


> AFM we have our IVF/ICSI planning appointment on the 29th May.. I'm. So. Freaking. Scared. I keep reading about injections.. ladies who do this, how bad is it? I mean, really? Do you get your OH to help? I think my DH would faint even if I suggested it!
> 
> Love to all,
> 
> C xx

I agree with Deb about the injections. I do them myself and no problems at all. I just take it slowly and it's no so bad.


----------



## WANBMUM

Thanks silverbell. That's exactly it, I am so disappointed and could cry at the drop of a hat (pretty much like that since azoo confirmed anyway ha) but in the other hand at least I know meds work and if we ever need ivf at least i know i can produce follicles. The plan is next cycle to do no meds, but without meds I might only have one or even none!?! So it could be another disappointing month. I just have to wait and see. The waiting and seeing is what kills me. Ha 
How are you doing silverbell? :)
How


----------



## wibble wobble

just sat here cutting my credit card up into tiny little pieces..... decided I'll put a better effort into paying off debts. The bank sent a letter to say they were putting up the interest rate so I could pay off at the old rate still but I'd have to cancel the account or pay a much higher interest rate. I have to say it's quite theraputic (sp) bending the card back and forth until it snaps over and over .... I feel like I'm more in control now that I know whatever I pay off my balance each month isn't re spendable at the end of the month when I've used up my wages. I really wish I'd been more careful with money in the past and stayed away from credit cards... I didn't need them, I just got them because of greed. I fell right into the buy now pay later trap. It might take me a while to pay off the balance (a couple of years) but I've learnt the lesson at last..... just wanted to share, it feels like a personal achievement, like I'm growing up and taking responsibility


----------



## snd80

Good for you WW! I know it is a load off your mind! We had to enter a debt consolidation program 3 years ago after Marty had gotten laid off one summer... we were soooo far into credit card debt b/c we partied all the time and spent frivilousaly on nothing, and the monthly minimum's were killing us, so they cut our interest rates to hardly nothing and reduced the total pmts about $300 a month total! Best thing we EVER did! 2 more years, and we will be cc debt free!!!! =)

PS- How are you into this cycle?


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi Snd that was exactly what we were like with the credit cards :( we had a couple of decent holidays out of them but tbh we don't really have anything to show for them... I console myself with at least we had fun at the time lol It's no way to live your life tho being afraid of what the next monthly statement balance will show and being honest again I'd use the card to pay for non essential treats once my wages were gone... now I have the choice make my wage last or go without... 

My treatment doesn't start for another 2 weeks yet, it feels like it's dragging today I'm not in work and I've sat glued to my lap top all day which doesn't help! 

How long until OTD for you?


----------



## snd80

wibble wobble said:


> Hi Snd that was exactly what we were like with the credit cards :( we had a couple of decent holidays out of them but tbh we don't really have anything to show for them... I console myself with at least we had fun at the time lol It's no way to live your life tho being afraid of what the next monthly statement balance will show and being honest again I'd use the card to pay for non essential treats once my wages were gone... now I have the choice make my wage last or go without...
> 
> My treatment doesn't start for another 2 weeks yet, it feels like it's dragging today I'm not in work and I've sat glued to my lap top all day which doesn't help!
> 
> How long until OTD for you?

That's the hardest part, not having them on stand by for "in cases"... and I have to admit, I mis-use my debit card sometimes and have to rush for an advance on my paycheck to deposit to keep from being overdrawn! LOL! But not on anything like clothes, etc... more like at the grocery store or gas station. And I also have a habit of writing checks on the weekend and rush to the bank on Mon morning before they hit! :nope:

And I test Weds! *IF* I can make it til then! I am going crazy here! :wacko: Can't wait til it's your turn!!!!


----------



## SunUp

Alright, I know I have some serious catching up to do with posts and I promise I will catch up... but I wanted to drop by real quick, and share my good news! I got the go ahead to trigger tonight and I have IUI's SATURDAY and SUNDAY! AHHHHHHH. Official blood test day will be 5/29/12! I am so excited :)


----------



## Deb111

snd80 said:


> YES! That made me feel MUCH better! =) And so did Deb's smells....

That doesn't sound very good! :rofl:


----------



## snd80

Deb111 said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> YES! That made me feel MUCH better! =) And so did Deb's smells....
> 
> That doesn't sound very good! :rofl:Click to expand...

:haha: You know what I meant! :rofl:


----------



## snd80

Yay SUN!!!! :happydance: :dance:


----------



## Deb111

Sunup- great news - how exciting - hope all goes well xx

WW - good for you :thumbup: We have a couple of credit cards - we've never spent frivolously. We put our honeymoon on it and have had to take cash on it when tenants have been late paying their rent and we've needed to cover mortgage payments. We're not ones to use it for everyday stuff but it just seems to mount up so easily and yet be so touch to chip away at :shrug:

Snd - hang in there hun!


----------



## wibble wobble

Sunup good luck for iui this weekend

Deb your right about balances being so hard to reduce, any payment you make never seems to hit the sides

Snd if you can't wait til wednesday at least wait til monday, thats just 2 days early and you could get a faint positive by then.

forgot to mention a friend on another forum got her BFP last weekend from her first iui treatment.... she wasn't very hopeful either as it took her body a while to respond to the meds they gave her.


----------



## rdleela

snd80 said:


> You're right RD, and I'm sorry for being insensative to those who aren't at that point yet... just didn't think about "what if I was in their shoes?".

SND, don't worry, you're not being insensitive!! We're all super-excited for you and don't you ever think about not telling us how your TWW is going! We all hope to be in your position again someday!

As for the debt conversation, I'm a financial advisor now, but back when we were young, we too, spent too much and still have some debt left from it. I help lots of young people manage their debt, it's a very common thing with our generation!

Sunup, CONGRATS and good luck! FX"d


----------



## SunUp

SND, I am so excited for you, I am sure it is driving you crazy waiting to test! I am really hoping this is it for you!

Deb- Any new news with the baby?


----------



## snd80

Hey girls... bad night last night. Got home and started spotting some, which I always do about 3-4 days before starting. Didn't sleep and cried all night. I can't see anything today unless I really dig up in there, and then only see a tiny dark bit. Yesterday was cd26/9dpo. I called my aunt this morning (the head labor and delivery nurse I have talked about before), and she said to her it sounded good, like IB (said it happened to her w/ both her kids), especially with my progesterone levels being what they were, and told me not to worry and stress, and walk around with the mindset that I was pg up until Weds when I am suppost to test, and not test any earlier. Easier said than done! LOL! But she did ease my mind some and I have calmed down now. Just when I seen it, the first thing I thought was it didn't work, and the :witch: is on the way! And I have been a little crampy too, so now I have to protest..... :af: :af: :af:!!!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Fingers crossed it was IB SND, we're all routing for you

:dust: :dust: :dust: :dust:


----------



## rdleela

FX'd SND! :af::dust:


----------



## SunUp

:af::af::af:
Sending lots of 
:dust:
Sticky Vibes, SND!


----------



## SunUp

Just had my first IUI today. I had no clue how QUICK it would be. Like, I was in and out in under 10 minutes... and the IUI itself took about 10 seconds! 

Repeat tomorrow morning! :)

The good news is I am staying in a hotel tonight and I am going to enjoy RELAXING!!!


----------



## raelynn

Good luck Sun Up!!!

SND - Keeping my fingers crossed for you! Could you send AF my way instead? I'm tired of waiting!


----------



## deafgal01

SND- sending :dust: and positive thoughts/prayers in your direction. YOU WILL GET THAT BFP! :hugs: I like that your aunt told you to think that you are pregnant! :thumbup:

SunUp- good luck! :dust: Praying that the IUI works its charm and you get a bfp in 2 weeks after waiting.

Rae- hope AF shows for you soon so you can get a move on with the plan for you.

at the moment, I'm emotionally drained/exhausted. I ran on less sleep all week this week- normally I get about up to 5 to 7 but this week I've been running on very little- 2 or 3 hours of sleep and slacking off on my "internet" addiction (on Bnb and facebook). I'd appreciate it if you'd send a little prayer over here for a family I know. Their 12 yr old daughter became really sick with meningitis and became deaf very quickly (it took about a day to figure it out and actually get it diagnosed after finding out she had meningitis). Scary time for the family so they've been really depending on me to be there- which I wouldn't have been able to do as well if I was stuck at home with kids/babies. I guess that's one part of the reason why I still haven't had a baby yet by now. Thankfully the girl will be ok. I have been going to visit her at the hospital everyday since Wednesday. Looks like I will be busy with that this summer- going over to their home and checking in with them and hanging out. You'd think she was my little sister or something from the way I was losing sleep over her. :rofl: Honestly the family's coping really well with this, I think only because of the huge amount of support that is surrounding them right now from other family members and friends. But yeah, it'd be good to send them some prayers/positive thoughts.

I'm sending positive vibes/thoughts to all of you and praying that you all get your answers/bfps soon!


----------



## snd80

SunUp said:


> Just had my first IUI today. I had no clue how QUICK it would be. Like, I was in and out in under 10 minutes... and the IUI itself took about 10 seconds!
> 
> Repeat tomorrow morning! :)
> 
> The good news is I am staying in a hotel tonight and I am going to enjoy RELAXING!!!

:happydance: Have hubby kiss your belly for good luck and keep them feet up!!!!!!! _*SOOOO*_ excited for you!!!!! :dust:


----------



## snd80

Praying DG- Awesome that you are able to be there for them. I truly believe we all have a purpose on this earth, and maybe this is yours! =)

A girl I went to school with had a son born deaf. Her older sister was also born deaf, so she was already "prepared" in the sense of dealing with deafness. She travels back and forth every week to Jackson to take him to a school for the deaf, and found a dr. (who works with the school) to give him bionic ear implants and now he can hear! It just amazes me how far medical interventions have come within 20+ years!!! God is good, even though we may sometimes forget it!!!! I, myself, am guilty of that! ;)


----------



## deafgal01

Just one purpose in life? :rofl: I sometimes feel like we have more than one purpose in life. :shrug: Yeah, I'm finding my passion lies in helping families like this during their time of transition between grieving over their child's hearing loss to what lifestyle changes they can make/change to make the future bright. It does seem easier to make the transition when one has been exposed to someone who is deaf in their life rather than someone who's never known/met a deaf person.

I gotta go. DH is ready to head out- we're going to the store to buy a rubric cube and then it's the movies we're going to. Thank goodness we don't need to find a babysitter for any of our kids, least not yet. :rofl: One day that will happen though when we want to go out, we gotta find a sitter. :haha: Not worried though- I have a list already that I know I can call on to come babysit for us. :-=

Hope all of you are doing alright! :thumbup:


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## Deb111

SunUp said:


> SND, I am so excited for you, I am sure it is driving you crazy waiting to test! I am really hoping this is it for you!
> 
> Deb- Any new news with the baby?

All going well thanks. Have to book in with my consultant on Wed next week and will also ask them about repeat blood test I had to have done because my full blood count came back with 'atypical lymphs' which scared me, especially as i got the letter last Saturday morning and with it being a bank holiday weekend, couldn't talk to anyone about it until Tuesday. They said it's highly unlikely to be anything, they just have to double check it - may just have been a bad sample or I may have been fighting a virus I didn't even know I had.

Still very tired, but not the 'struggling to stay awake at my desk sort of tired' that I had earlier on. Still feeling sick quite a lot and sick some mornings when brishing my teeth, but they are all reassuring signs.

Not sure if I said on this thread, but we ended up having a private scan done to check for indicators of downs syndrome as baby wasn't in the right position for them to do it at our NHS scan. Anyway, we've been given a risk factor of 1 in 3590 (I think it was), which is great considering my age, because based on my age alone, my risk factor would have been 1 in 180. Of course, if the baby did have issues, we would love it just as much but just wanted a bit of a 'heads-up' if there were likely to be health issues to deal with


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## Deb111

So exciting SunUp - enjoy the hotel and relaxation :thumbup:

Snd - still keeping everything crossed

I know of SO many girls on here who have been trying for so long and are now pregnant - I think 2012 is a great year so I just KNOW we will get out fair share of :bfp:'s in here

Deafgal - praying for that family - it must be a shock for them, but great news that she will recover from the meningitis. Wonderful that they have you for support and to make things feel less scray

Hope everyone else is doing ok - keeping you all in my prayers xx


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## Stinas

wibble wobble - God bless you for being able to cut them up!! lol Those evil little things! Its soooo easy to swipe! I have a closet filled with very expensive shoes to show for it, but busting my ass working to pay them off was not worth it.....well....it was once I put them on lol 
It happens to the best of us. 

SunUp - Yay!!!

snd - Try not to worry....as hard as it is....could be IB!

rdleela - I agree....it is a problem with our age group now and days....mostly because of school loans, but it has become a "normal" thing now...sad. 

deafgal01 - Im sorry to hear that! My prayers go out to the little girl! Its great that they have such an amazing family/friends support group....it really helps!


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## BumpHopes

Hi Ladies hope all is well!!

Im still waiting for the next appt. How is everyone? Sorry not been on much been doing crazy amount of overtime now i booked my wedding :happydance: we need it lol.


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## MJ73

*SND*; thinking of you hun :hugs:, how you coping today in your 2ww? Sending loads of :dust: & :af: your way!

*DG*; will definitely be sending thoughts & prayers to your friend's daughter, it's great that you can be there for them. Hopefully you can catch up on some sleep :sleep: this week?

*Sun*; I can't believe you've just had your 1st IUI, sending lots of :dust: your way hun. Enjoy your hotel room gorgeous girl, you deserve it xx

*Deb*; so unbelievably happy that things are going so well with LO, he sounds like a strong little bubba (I voted for a boy on your poll :winkwink:) Trusting the test results will come back showing all is good.

*Bump*; good to see you again. A wedding! How exciting :wedding:

*Rae*; doing the AF dance for you right now :happydance:

*WW*; don't beat yourself up, I think we've all made bad financial choices in the past. It just sucks that we have to pay so much now just for the privilege of _trying _to have a baby :hugs: Good on you for cutting up the CCs, we did that a couple of years ago & haven't missed them. Not long till your treatment starts, it'll be here before you know it.

*SB*, thinking of you as you start your next IUI :dust: your way too.

*WANBMUM*, so sorry your IUI was cancelled :hugs: So bloody disappointing hun...

*tigerlily*, I found the injections so much easier than I thought I would. It's natural to feel apprehensive though :hugs:. I think the 1st one was the hardest. I would just take a deep breath, pinch some skin & stick in the needle, before you know it, you've done your 1st, then it just gets easier

*Stinas*; so glad you're getting some positive news from the Dr. Isn't it odd that a blockage is 'good news', welcome to the world of azoo I guess :hugs:

*rdleela*, thinking of you while you're waiting for your next appointment :hugs:

I hope that's everyone, sorry if I've forgotten anyone :blush:...

AFM, we finally see the urologist on Tuesday, so FX he has good news & that Simon doesn't have cancer (I don't know quite what we'll do if he does). I'll also let you know what he says about the undescended testicle :football::football: they found :wacko:, I wonder what they'll do with it??? I hope, for Simon's sake that they can bring it down...


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## Stinas

Doc called back friday on the results of the ultrasound.....he said everything was clear in looks good. He said that he has the varicocele vein that he thinks can possibly be causing the sperm to overheat and die....but wont know until 3 weeks from now when he gets a better look when he goes in. I have been googling the hell out of all the possible surgeries for all the "possible" problems that the doc pointed out. I cant wait to know exactly what it is. May 29th is our apt and it cant get here soon enough! 

MJ73 - I hope and pray your DH does not have cancer!!! It is pretty weird to hope for blockages. When I first found out I didnt understand all of it, but now im just hoping for something to be wrong thats somewhat fixable. Its weird how things change as time goes by. 

BumpHopes - Yay for wedding booking!!! Congrats! Now let all the madness begin!


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## SunUp

Stinas, May 29 is my beta test - you're right, it can't get here fast enough!

MJ - the big update you just did was awesome - it put a list of where many of us are at this point in time, which is great to have so we can keep up with everyone the next few days/weeks. Sending lots of prayers your way for GOOD news Tuesday!

Bump - Yay for booking the wedding!!


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## deafgal01

Bump- have fun planning your wedding! :thumbup:

Stinas- Hope the appt on May 29th shows good news from dr for your DH.

MJ- Good luck! Hope your DH doesn't have cancer. :hugs:

Deb- take care of that azoo baby of yours. :hugs:

I'm in the 2ww. No idea if the medicine is doing the trick (blood work shows perfect levels)- we'll find out with a new SA in June so more waiting. Dh did say that the high blood pressure was a possibility of a side effect from one of the fertility medicine he's on. :shrug: so when he stops taking that, he'll stop the blood pressure med too and see where he stands on that. 

Hope all of you ladies are doing well.


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## Stinas

SunUp - Let the countdown begin! Its coming up though...so I dont think it will be that bad of a wait. I feel like May so far has flown by. Crazy. Winter takes forever and when its nice out, it flies on by!

deafgal01 - Thank you! I hope the meds do the trick. That must be an irritating wait. I hate not knowing...it just drives me nuts. I guess with all of us azoo will eventually make us all more patient at the end.


----------



## snd80

Hi girls.. hope everyone is well and will come back later for personals

I'm out. I started spotting again yesterday afternoon and real bad this morning. So I tested and BFN.... :cry: I'm just numb and can't figure out what went wrong!


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## Step Mummy

Snd keep your hopes up, you never know it could be implant spotting and maybe the PG test isn't showing up yet. What dpo are you?

I know how tough it is, but if this doesn't work, at least next month you will know what to expect and it Is easier to deal with second time around. Thinking of you, these last few days are the hardest.

AFM. I went in for my scan on sat am and they said come back Monday for another scan, I had 2 follies on my left the biggest was 15.5' and another small one on the right. Today the scan showed I had just OV'd, but they told me that this was good as doing iui at this stage often works so they rushed me in for the iui.

So all went smoothly, I have a brain like a sieve (it's the drugs!) so I can't remember the figures but I remember 3 out of 4 going in the right direction and we could see them swim towards the eggie.

I learnt a new thing this month you might find interesting; they have changed the time the trigger is done at my clinic, they used to do 36 hours, but they said that it is more successful doing it less time between! But of course I never got to experience this.

So now in the dreaded TWW for the forth time.

Big FX for all of us in this time and those getting towards this stage. X


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## snd80

step mummy said:


> snd keep your hopes up, you never know it could be implant spotting and maybe the pg test isn't showing up yet. What dpo are you?

12dpo


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## SunUp

SND - we will be here for you no matter the outcome! If it is negative, its NOT because you did ANYTHING wrong. Remember, many couples without infertility problems takea few tries to get pregnant. I have no doubt your positive is coming soon. (I know, we all want it NOW and having to wait is awful, but good things are worth waiting for).
I will keep you in my prayers!

Stinas - you are right, I can't believe May is already half way over! It really has flown by. I am trying to stay busy the next two weeks so hopefully it will keep flying by.

StepM- we are right at the same time, I just started my TWW!

Question -has anyone else done back to back IUI's? I did mine on CD 16 and CD 17... So I really don't know how to count DP IUI?? I seem to read most people on here did 1 IUI?


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## Deb111

StepMummy - keeping everything crossed for you this time round

Snd - as SunUp said, IF this hasn't worked, it's not because of anything you did wrong. We had 2 perfect blasto's put back first time round and nothing. We were told quite a high proportion of a woman's eggs just don't have the potential to ever make it to be a fully developed fetus. I got a -ve test at 11 and 12 dpo this time round.


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## snd80

Step Mom- Thank you for your encouragement. It is just bitter right now and I just can't wrap my head around everything... but you're right! You live and learn!!!! :dust: and hopefully the 4th time will be the charm for you!

Sun- :dust: and thank you for your kind words. I was wondering myself why they did you 2 back to back? But thought maybe it was just b/c you were in a different state with different procedure policies? Who knows, but better odds in your favor!!!! I should have asked for 2 myself!!!

Deb- Thank you as well. In my head I feel like I am out, but that little hope of glimmer is still there lurking... I don't know weither to test again Weds or not. :shrug: Spotting has slowed down and what I have had these past 2 days is very dark brown. So IDK! 

I called Jackson this morning and told them what is going on and drilled that lady to death! 

1.) I asked about the thawing and counts. She said "normal" samples count were 23 million, and mine was 63 million, so it wasn't a bad vial. 

2.) I asked about increasing the clomid next time. She said sometimes too much can cause a bad ov, and mine was on target the past 2 months on my current dose. 

3.) Also asked if my weight was a factor, and she said no, as long as you have a good ov it didn't matter. 

So, she said when I fully started to call and let her know and she would get detailed instructions from the dr. himself for the next round. Only thing is we may have to wait to save up the $ for the next round! The sperm is paid for, but the $350 dr. fee plus travel expenses I don't have. Well, I do, but our roof started leaking Sat. night and we have to shell out $300 to have it repaired this weekend! So damn if you do, and damn if you don't. She never said anything about testing again on Weds, so IDK. Guess it wouldn't hurt since I have one left.

Started the gym again today on lunch break. Me and Alice in Chains tore it up on the treadmill. I've gained 4 lbs in 2 weeks! Yeah! I've been eating like I was pg already! Now I will pay for it!!!! :nope:

:hugs: to each of you and thanks again for all the support!


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## Deb111

snd80 said:


> Deb- Thank you as well. In my head I feel like I am out, but that little hope of glimmer is still there lurking... I don't know weither to test again Weds or not. :shrug: Spotting has slowed down and what I have had these past 2 days is very dark brown. So IDK!

Brown is good!!!! :thumbup:


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## Step Mummy

Snd; I know it's so hard, but if u think, if we were doing it naturally it would take a few months to get PG, so it is likely to take a go or two, but the time it has taken us to get here, the procedure, drugs and the cost, all make it so much harder to bear. And a leaking roof is just such a kick in the teeth.

FX for a little miracle for you.

I don't know about your drugs, but the gonal-f makes u put on weight, during the last lot of three goes, I gained a dress size, became covered in acne and suffered with rhinitis (sinus problems), but with that in mind I know u have done so well over recent months, so don't loose the hard work u have put in, you have achieved great things, don't let this set u back. Xx


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## Pink Lolly

SND - so sorry to read this. When our first cycle failed I was devestated and couldn't imagine it ever working...

but 2nd time when we got our bfp, we didn't do anything different to the first time. It was exactly the same, even down to the hospital messing up the drug doses! So it proves that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and theres not necessarily a reason why.

Try not to give up hope xxx


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## Step Mummy

Deb, do you know, I was just reading the start of this thread, going back to the beginning, talking about our dh's SSR's. I can't believe the journey we have all been on since it started in 2010' I am grateful to u for starting this thread as I am sure so many of us here are. But it is sad to read back through our stories.

I am pleased to see so many bfp's it gives us all hope that it will happen for us sooner or later.

Lots of love to all TTC'ers.:flower:


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## snd80

Deb111 said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> Deb- Thank you as well. In my head I feel like I am out, but that little hope of glimmer is still there lurking... I don't know weither to test again Weds or not. :shrug: Spotting has slowed down and what I have had these past 2 days is very dark brown. So IDK!
> 
> Brown is good!!!! :thumbup:Click to expand...

Fri night's was red, yesterday and today was dark brown. Guess next will be blue or purple! Who knows!!! :haha: What dpo did you get your +?


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## Stinas

snd - Im sorry you are spotting! Glad to hear you are on track with the gym! At least one of us is lol Damn leaky roofs! Got to love homeownership! I hope the next cycle works for you...even though your not out yet....!

Step Mummy - FX its your cycle!

SunUp - I know me too!!! We will be busy bees! I am on a hunt for a dress for an event I have the sunday before out apt. So im focused on that lol


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## Deb111

Snd - 14dpo - bang on official test date - that'll teach me to test early! :winkwink:


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## deafgal01

Snd- pma. Don't throw in the towel til the fat lady sings, and she ain't singing until your testing day on the 14 cd. I'm hoping for a bfp from you! Brown isn't bad- it could be IB.


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## CanadianMaple

snd- I used to have a site bookmarked with the dpo and how many people still got BFNs when they were still pregnant. I think at 14dpo it was still something like 1/4 were not showing pregnant yet.

I'm behind on personals and I feel bad. We finally see the urologist on Thursday after all this time. I'm not feeling optimistic. I don't know if it's because I know in my heart it won't be good or if it's because I want to stay guarded. We've waited so long, yet I feel so unprepared.


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## Stinas

CanadianMaple - Good luck with your apt!!! Dont worry...we all feel like that before going...you just never know what they will have to say! We are all here no matter what!


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## SunUp

Canadian! Great to hear from you!!!
Don't worry, the way you feel is completely normal. (At least, normal in my book for those of us who deal with Azoo)
I will be keeping you in my thoughts. We are here for you no matter the outcome. :)


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## silverbell

Just came on whilst on holiday to check on snd ... I really hope the spotting is just that. However if it's not then I definitely agree with the others - it won't be anything you did wrong. Human fertility is so complicated and inefficient it makes me mad :nope: but you will get there I know it. In the mean time I'm praying for an unexpected BFP for you.


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## MJ73

*SND*, my thoughts are with you hun. Sending much peace & comfort you're way :hugs: I'm also hoping that it is just spotting & that you're still in with a chance this cycle. Remember what the other girls said; you have done nothing to cause this. Baby making really is a numbers game (which sucks when we're dealing with azoo); the more times that sperm meets egg, be it in a lab or in a uterus, the more chances of a baby in the end. So hang in there hun, we're all with you.

*Sun*, sending you much :dust: for your 2WW

*SB*, sending you much :dust: too hun

*CM*, thinking about you with your appt, holding out for some good news for you. I agree with the other girls, your feelings are totally normal. I think it's a bit of a self-preservation thing.

*Step Mummy*, sending loads of :dust: your way for your IUI hun

*Pink Lolly*, I was wondering how you're going with LO, you must be on :cloud9: has it sunk in yet?

Sorry if I missed anyone, love & hugs to all.


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## MJ73

Just thought I better up-date y'all on what happened at the urologist today. I hope you don't mind if I C & P from my journal? I'm exhausted today; emotionally & otherwise....

Well, we kind of got mixed results today. As I suspected might happen, we still don't have a concrete answer re the cancer. The urologist said that it's good news that it hasn't changed & that it has no blood flow to the region. He is concerned because it has 'jagged edges' & this bothers him a bit. He did say that there is absolutely not to be any kind of biopsy/needle retrieval done on that testicle because there is too much risk of spreading the cancer cells if it is cancer... We have to have another ultrasound & BT in Sept then see him again then too. He said that he has no idea whether or not the undescended testicle would be producing sperm. But he said that there is a chance that under a general anesthesic that he could work with our FS in the same operation (in another hospital to our IVF hospital). Where they would make an incision, 'milk the testicle down' to where our FS could then try to retrieve sperm via TESE or biopsy. There are so many questions in my mind right now that I can't really think straight. Mainly being if his 'good' testicle that is descended is barely functioning & producing sperm, then what are the chances that this one that is undescended & in the heat of the groin is producing any? My gut feeling is that our FS is going to say that its just not possible/worthwhile. Then the question of money. How much would something like this cost us? We can barely afford the standard procedures we're having done, let alone the added expense of an extra Dr, anesthetist etc. So, we've already started to talk about donor sperm. I really do think that this will be our best option for moving forward. Whilst we do have the frozen embryo, I'm just gonna assume that's not going to take as the last one didn't. As to be expected I've had a weep & am gonna let myself grieve the loss of having my beautiful Simon's babies as the realist in me thinks that is just a pipe dream now. Thanks again for all your support girls. I really couldn't get through this without you all xx


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## tigerlily1975

MJ, darling, I'm so so sorry that you and your DH are having to go through all this :hugs: :hugs: I think we all shed more than our fair share of tears on this thread. When do you see your FS next? I'm hoping so hard that something can be done. 

You and DH take care now and know that we're thinking of you.

Big :hugs:

C xx


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## snd80

Still barely spotting... and I mean barely! So I will test again first thing in the morning. My aunt called last night and offered to loan me the $ for the next round and said I can pay her back when I get it saved, but hubby said no. What he doesn't understand is that it will set us back, having to do another trial run on clomid with bloods and then try again... and I'm like we can't afford all that, let alone be right back where we are now with another "first" time try! :cry: I may just go ahead and do it behind his back.... F*ck him! I just can't believe him!!!!!! :growlmad:

You know you spend too much time on bnb when..... you dream that Deb organized a conference for all the azoo girls in "Europe" and we all met and went to a festival and hung out. And the weird thing was that Europe was somehow right next to Mississippi (where Alabama should be) and we were just a drive away! :haha: But we all had a blast and met each other's hubby's and it was so much fun, talking about what we had been through and what we wanted to have (I remember telling Deb I wanted a girl). Yeah. :rofl: I think I am a little obsessed over this baby thing!!!!! :nope:

Hope everyone is ok today... :flower:


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## snd80

MJ, darling, IDK what to say! I will pray for you! And keep your head up (I know, easier said than done)... at least you have a plan B if plan A isn't feasable. You'll get there one way or another!!!! Lots o' love girly!!! :hugs:


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## SunUp

Oh MJ I have so been there. DH had surgery as an infant that messed up his testicles. And while we could have gone the mTESE route, it would have been putting his health in jeapordy (long term) and I just could NOT do that. So we will never really know about if / where he has sperm. It was hard at first, DH thought DS was weird. But I told him that what I love about him has nothing to do with genetics. Of course, I wanted DS from someone with similar genetics, but I don't love him for his eye color or hair color. I love him for his humor, how he can always make me smile even when I am really down, how he knows EVERYTHING about being outside etc. These are things DH will still pass on to OUR children. He is the best thing that has happened to me and one day, our child(ren) will be the best thing that happen to US. 
DS is not an easy choice, but remember, it is just that - a choice. But that child will completely be yours, and your hubbys, from the second it implants.
I do send you lots of hugs because I understand where you are at right now, but I promise you, you will not be down long! Even if I have to fly all the way over there and 'smack' a smile back on your face. LOL! (Annnnd you'd have to show me all around because where you live is my dream vaca!)


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## Deb111

Loving your dream Snd - it would be so fab if we could all get together with out LO's!

MJ - I'm so sorry, sorry that you still haven't got conclusive answers and sorry that things are not feeling so positive for having dh's biological child :hugs: Surely you haven't got to wait til Sept for more news on the possibility of cancer??? It's so sad when money becomes the over-riding factor in this and I know you're also in the same position as I was for feeling time is running out for you and that just puts added pressure on you both emotionally and financially. Sending you both hugs :hugs: xx

Canadian - totally normal feelings - after all the bad news you've had, it's hard to imagine good news, plus it's self preservation too xx


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## Step Mummy

Ah MJ I am so sorry you are in this position, I know how hard it is to accept the donor route and it is good you are choosing to take time to grieve, I took 10 months before I could move forward and start looking at donors, whereas DH wanted to go for it straight away. It gets a lot better as time goes by even if it does not seem like it now.

Money worries are just the killer, as if u need to worry about that too.

I really hope that your appt in September gives you some good news and you can the take the next steps. Thinking of you x


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## Deb111

SunUp - what a very touching post xx


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## tigerlily1975

Does anyone else wish there was an 'I'm pregnant!!' block/setting on facebook?? :ignore: 

C xx

P.S. I LOVE to see BFPs on here, but it's just that ruddy place.. argh!!


----------



## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> Does anyone else wish there was an 'I'm pregnant!!' block/setting on facebook?? :ignore:
> 
> C xx
> 
> P.S. I LOVE to see BFPs on here, but it's just that ruddy place.. argh!!

:hugs:


----------



## Stinas

mj - Im soo sorry you didnt get full answers. You know what...if the donor route is the way you have to go, do it. Just as long as Simon is healthy...thats all that matters!! I always feel like adopted babies end up looking like the parents anyways....im sure donor will look more like you guys. 

snd - I would do it behind his back....he will get over it. Its not like your donating your kidney behind his back lol and the dream...lol...too funny!....but that would be really nice for us to all get together! How much fun would that be!!!

tigerlily1975 - YES!!!!!!!!! It makes me super mad....this one girl who has 2 boys already...shockingly all same father....just had her 3rd boy....which is all fine and dandy except for the fact that all her post are nasty posts about the father and how hes no good and blah blah blah....like "you will pay for this" "all you need is mommy" "hes no good"....its like really? People like this can have multiple babies and dh and I cant have one? I just dont get it. Life works in mysterious ways.


----------



## Soili

Hey guys! We got a copy of SA results yesterday and I wonder if any of you would have something to say about it... In regards whether it's possible at all for us to still try ICSI.

So confirming that the count was fine. 49mil per ml. Absolute zero motility. Zero morphology too, with 78% abnormality of head and 90% of tail (the neck and cito are all fine). I guess in the samples they took to examine, all 100% fell in either head or tail or both. Not to say that there ain't some in the whole 70-something million that would be considered normal, but obviously they didn't look through the whole thing. While the head % seems somewhat within the normal range, the % for tail abnormality is really high. pH is normal, 7.7. And they didn't find any white blood cells, so probably not infection either. There was no sperm in earlier stages of development found either, I'm guessing it's good thing? 

The thing I was most unsure about is if they tested for vitality and they did. 43% are vital (according to staining test, I presume). They couldn't do the HOS test, because a lot of them had short or curled tail. 

Seems pretty obvious to me that the reason why they don't wanna swim is because there's something wrong with the structure of the tails, since 90% of them are wrong shape, yet at least half are perfectly vital. My biggest guess for diagnosis at the moment is "immotile ciliary syndrome", but they'd have to look at the tails closely to confirm. 

My question is though... How resistant fertility clinics are to using immotile and perhaps also not morphologically perfect (in tail area) sperm for ICSI, but that is vital? I found studies saying that it's very much possible. For once, morphology doesn't correlate to any chromosome abnormalities (though I'm guessing they'll be testing for that too, the kariotype test?). And second, the tail is only needed to get the sperm to the egg and they crash it before injecting into the egg anyway. It's a state clinic, if it matters.

I'd really like it for us to try ICSI first, even if they'd say it's low chances. Donor sperm would be easier of course, and we'll consider DIUI if ICSI fails. But my biggest fear at the moment that they wouldn't even let us try, under assumption that the probability is too low...

And yeah, all we originally got from the doctor was - count is ok, but zero motility and zero morphology, probably because of radiotherapy. Well, if it turns out that my diagnosis is right, then radiotherapy had nothing to do with it. And if she knew how to read the results properly, she wouldn't have jumped the guns either.

Oh and another thing... the testicular biopsy thing. According to my research, the sperm found there wouldn't be motile anyway? So doesn't seem like it makes any sense doing it. But the doctor said that's what they'll do looking for "better" sperm. Like I said though, she clearly didn't know much about it.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Stinas said:


> mj - Im soo sorry you didnt get full answers. You know what...if the donor route is the way you have to go, do it. Just as long as Simon is healthy...thats all that matters!! I always feel like adopted babies end up looking like the parents anyways....im sure donor will look more like you guys.
> 
> snd - I would do it behind his back....he will get over it. Its not like your donating your kidney behind his back lol and the dream...lol...too funny!....but that would be really nice for us to all get together! How much fun would that be!!!
> 
> tigerlily1975 - YES!!!!!!!!! It makes me super mad....this one girl who has 2 boys already...shockingly all same father....just had her 3rd boy....which is all fine and dandy except for the fact that all her post are nasty posts about the father and how hes no good and blah blah blah....like "you will pay for this" "all you need is mommy" "hes no good"....its like really? People like this can have multiple babies and dh and I cant have one? I just dont get it. Life works in mysterious ways.

It's completely and utterly annoying and upsetting! My oldest friend's sister got pregnant on a one night stand - she wasn't even sure who the dad was at first!! She gave birth to a gorgeous baby boy and the dad wants absolutely nothing to do with him, he's not supporting them or anything. She won't go through the system to get the financial support from him as she wants another child with him because she doesn't want to be "one of those women with children by different dads", even though he won't even be seen in public with her until she's lost weight!! Yep, real charmer! Like yourself, I just don't get it!!

I got quite upset as a lovely couple I know who have only been married 8 months announced they're expecting. I know she was partying over Christmas and New Year and then went skiing in February, so she must've fallen pregnant very quickly as she's 2-3 months along. You just keep asking yourself; why is it so easy for everyone else? Why can't we just have sex to create a baby?

I'm sorry for the mini-whinge, I'm just angry (with the World?!) this week.. the meditation is obviously not working! :dohh:

Much love and :hugs: to all, 

C xx


----------



## snd80

Morning all. Hope everyone is well. :flower:

I fully started during the night. :cry: But suprisingly I am ok today. It is like I have already grieved this past week cause I just knew it was coming. But on to the next cycle and learn from the first. :thumbup:

I have decided to cash in my vacation time to fund the next round. Hubby didn't need all of his pay check this week and has offered me the leftover to put towards the next round too, so we are going to press forward, which should be June 1st. We had a talk last night and he told me he couldn't take my "bad attitude" anymore, and felt like I was blaming him for this cycle's failure (which I was since he has stressed me beyond belief these past two weeks over a bunch of b.s.), and he was too busy and stressed himself to coddle me over this! Really?! Like I told him, for the past year there has been *no* hope, and now that we had a _REAL_ chance at this, the failure just plain hurts and I have every right to be upset and need coddling! But I thought long and hard about it, and realized that I have only stressed myself out and had put my life on hold for the past 2 weeks and did nothing but worry the whole time over every little thing. So not this time! :nope: This time will be different. You live and learn, don't you?! 

Dr. just called and said we were going to do all the same except for they are going to give me vaginal progesterone cream this time for the short luteal phase. At least they are addressing it ahead of time!!!! :winkwink:

Sun- :dust: Hope all is going well so far!!!!

:hugs: to everyone else and sorry for the long rant.


----------



## tigerlily1975

I'm so very, very sorry SND :hugs: :hugs: When you mentioned that the spotting had stopped, I was really hoping so hard that this was the one and it was just from implanting. That's great news that you're pushing on, June 1st is not far off at all (I know, as I turn 37 - Eeek!! - on the 2nd) and it sounds like your Dr is on the ball. As you rightly say, you can learn from this cycle and get it right for hopefully the one that does the trick.

In the mean-time, please take care and we're here if you need us :hugs:

C xx


----------



## Deb111

Snd - so sorry hun, but glad you have a plan xx :hugs:

Soili - my knowledge on the biopsies is a bit rusty now, but from what I remember, motile sperm can be found in the biopsy, as I know we had at least 1 out of our initial 3, but I'm sure it's not unusual for them not to be motile as they are not fully developed. 

As for using them in ICSI - I don't see why it would be a problem as you say, the tails etc are not important in ICSI - the sperm itself just carries the genetic 'payload' and once it is injected the rest becomes pretty redundant. Do you have to pay for your treatment? If you do, I don't see how they can refuse giving it a go if that's what you want. If you don't have to pay, I guess probability and statistics might play a part. The only reason I can think for not giving it a go is if the deformity in the sperm is as a result of another issue i.e. something genetic. Sorry for being a bit vague


----------



## Soili

Deb, we're not paying for the treatments, and that's exactly why I worry. There's a good chance they wouldn't wanna ruin the "success rate statistics". We have the right for 3 IVF rounds, but they might refuse on the basis that there's just no good sperm to use. We can't afford IVF at our own expense, but would seem weird not giving it a try because of financial reasons. Yet again, if we decide to save for it, I won't be getting any younger and we'll have lower success rates anyway. It's kinda looped logic.

We're rather against biopsy at the moment, because it appears that the reason they don't swim is because the tails are structured in the way that it makes it impossible to begin with. Hens, I don't believe they'll find anything different in biopsy. Of course, if they say they'll do ICSI in we agree on biopsy, than it'll be a different story.

The thing is, if it IS "immotile ciliary syndrome", then there's nothing can be done to get them to swim. Vitamins might improve vitality and head morphology, but the tails will stay the same as it's a genetic factor affecting them.


----------



## Stinas

tigerlily1975 - Its ok to have poor me days. I have them alllll the time! I have realized that most people that get everything handed to them or just get it the easy way is usually miserable with their life in general and either want more or a different life. I love my life, my husband and my family....I wouldnt have it any other way....azoo is the biggest bump we could have ever imagined, but I would rather go through things the hard way than to be miserable. Dont get me wrong....azoo makes you kind of miserable at times, but in the end I feel like it has brought DH and I to such a closer more intimate place in our relationship. We were always close, but this is just way different....and for that I am thankful.....as weird as it sounds. 

snd - Im sorry AF has arrived. Its good you prepared yourself earlier. I hope this cycle is your cycle! I agree....you do learn from your mistakes!


----------



## CanadianMaple

snd80- I'm so sorry that AF arrived. :( I hope this cycle is it! 

tigerlily1975- I find it so frustrating how people can get pregnant so easily and not even understand what a blessing it is. I have a 4 year old and his father is a deadbeat. He hasn't seen Jack since last July and the last time he spoke to him was in October, only because I forced it. My husband has azoo, is raising another man's baby and would do anything for Jack, yet he will never be able to adopt Jack or have his own naturally. It makes me so angry.

mj- I'm so sorry things have been so rough. It's so much to process. The donor route is a good option but it does take awhile until you feel totally comfortable with it. We're still struggling with that as an option right now.

DH's appointment is in 13 hours. I am so nervous, I feel like I could be sick. I wished I had wrote out my questions before now, I can't concentrate to even think of any. 6 months of waiting and I feel like I'm numb all over again. I don't get it. What do I need to ask? Low T treatment? Biopsy? ICSI chances? Will the freeze anything if they do the biopsy? Then it's a total blank.

I'm sorry I have missed a lot of you in my personals. I'll update tomorrow and will try to catch up soon. We're going to be on our first camping trip of the year for the long weekend this weekend. We bought a new trailer last week and can't wait to get a break and use it.


----------



## SunUp

SND- big hugs! you have a great attitude and are an amazingly strong person!

CM - good luck! I am hoping for the best for you!


----------



## rdleela

snd80 said:


> Dr. just called and said we were going to do all the same except for they are going to give me vaginal progesterone cream this time for the short luteal phase. At least they are addressing it ahead of time!!!! :winkwink:

Hi, snd, first so sorry AF got you, and I totally "get" how you're ok right now! I would do my grieving before I got AF, as well!

As for the progesterone, I would highly recommend that you ask for pills or suppositories instead. From everything I've read, the cream is by far not enough to help a short luteal phase. I have a 9 day luteal phase (I just wrote a post a few pages ago on this) and I used Prometrium pills as suppositories (yup, stuck them up there!) twice a day, starting 3dpo (confirmed o) till 14dpo, no spotting, no period!!! It goes right to the place it's needed when used as a suppositories...Anyways, I would see if they'll give you those instead of the cream, and if you have any questions at all, let me know! I am TOTALLY using it whenever I get to TTC again!

I have been following, just not posting! Really, really wishing every one of you girls the very best, no matter what stage you're at!!!

AFM, still waiting for a stupid transrectal u/s appt...good news is that the request to the hospital is complete and done, just waiting for the hospital to get back to use with the date/time.:wacko:


----------



## raelynn

SND - So sorry AF got you! I'm glad that you did your grieving ahead of time though so you can just get ready to move forward with the next round. We're all such planners and ahead thinkers :) Guess this is preparing us for motherhood! I really hope this next cycle is it for you!

CM - Wishing you lots of luck, hope you get some good news and some info to help you sort an action plan out!


----------



## wibble wobble

Snd sorry AF got you. Hope the next cycle is the one xx


----------



## CanadianMaple

Not good news.

$1500 for a needle and a 20% chance
$4000 for open surgery. 45% chance.

He wasn't interested in treating him with clomid to boost his T.
He said he would give him T if he doesn't want to do that until we are done with fertility stuff.

Those percentages are just for sperm. Ivf also only has a 50/50 chance.

I'm so frustrated that this all comes down to money. So frustrated he won't treat the low T with something. He says that rarely works.


----------



## snd80

rdleela said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> Dr. just called and said we were going to do all the same except for they are going to give me vaginal progesterone cream this time for the short luteal phase. At least they are addressing it ahead of time!!!! :winkwink:
> 
> Hi, snd, first so sorry AF got you, and I totally "get" how you're ok right now! I would do my grieving before I got AF, as well!
> 
> As for the progesterone, I would highly recommend that you ask for pills or suppositories instead. From everything I've read, the cream is by far not enough to help a short luteal phase. I have a 9 day luteal phase (I just wrote a post a few pages ago on this) and I used Prometrium pills as suppositories (yup, stuck them up there!) twice a day, starting 3dpo (confirmed o) till 14dpo, no spotting, no period!!! It goes right to the place it's needed when used as a suppositories...Anyways, I would see if they'll give you those instead of the cream, and if you have any questions at all, let me know! I am TOTALLY using it whenever I get to TTC again!
> 
> I have been following, just not posting! Really, really wishing every one of you girls the very best, no matter what stage you're at!!!
> 
> AFM, still waiting for a stupid transrectal u/s appt...good news is that the request to the hospital is complete and done, just waiting for the hospital to get back to use with the date/time.:wacko:Click to expand...

From what I've gathered, it will be Endometrin (hopefully anyway), a pill type thing that you use as a suppositority, but it comes prefilled in a applicator, and expensive as shit!!!! We're talking almost $200 for a 2 week supply! But whatever! I just wanna get pg this time!!! And it would cost me more in the long run to use my final vial for the last try; not including the dr. cost and travel expenses/time off work either! So I would GLADLY pay $1000 for it just to get it right this time! LOL! Thank you for your reply!!!! I will make sure it is that instead of a "cream" cream.

Hopefully they will get you guys sorted out soon so you can get back to TTC! We're all cheering for you! :hugs:


----------



## snd80

Oh Becks!!!! :hugs: Thoughts and prayers are with you guys!

It would be *SO* nice if everywhere was like the UK, where they actually help ppl with infertility treatments!!!!


----------



## raelynn

CM - Sorry for your news but don't lose hope! We were given the exact same percentages and went with the lower option because of money. We went in saying a 25% higher chance of zero sperm is still zero so we didn't want to spend the money on the chance that nothing would be found. We were very surprised when they actually found sperm in some of the samples so there is always a chance! We were tormented by having to make such a big decision based on cost alone but that was the situation. It turns out, they coded the procedure for testicular failure so our insurance actually paid for most of it.


----------



## Deb111

snd80 said:


> It would be *SO* nice if everywhere was like the UK, where they actually help ppl with infertility treatments!!!!

Unfortunately you'd be pushing your luck to get NHS treatment with an azoo diagnosis as they're not prepared to deal with small numbers, or, in our experience, doing a synchronised cycle. They wrote us off :growlmad:


----------



## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> Not good news.
> 
> $1500 for a needle and a 20% chance
> $4000 for open surgery. 45% chance.
> 
> He wasn't interested in treating him with clomid to boost his T.
> He said he would give him T if he doesn't want to do that until we are done with fertility stuff.
> 
> Those percentages are just for sperm. Ivf also only has a 50/50 chance.
> 
> I'm so frustrated that this all comes down to money. So frustrated he won't treat the low T with something. He says that *rarely* works.

So sorry Becky :hugs: What is his justification for not giving your dh clomid or something similar? 'Rarely' means it sometimes works and this is your chances of having a baby he's messing with and who's to say that your dh wouldn't be one of the 'rare' ones?? We certainly were! It's ridiculous to not even try it and it's hardly like it's expensive treatment. One of Terry's meds was £9 for 3 months supply!!! I really would push him on the issue if you can or could you get a second opinion? Have you ever had a phone consultation with Dr Turek? I'd be interested in his opinion.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm so frustrated for you! :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

He's our only option. At one point, it sounded like he would try the clomid if we wanted, but then went back on it. If he's willing to take $1500 from us for a procedure that has a 20% success rate, it burns my butt to think he won't try that. I feel like he totally dashed any hope I had. What if he tried the clomid and started producing some sperm. He said it was only good for people who had ogliospermia (or however you say it.)

I feel like the day I did when we were diagnosed. I waited 6 months to find out everything I read about months ago. Only some things are more advanced than what he will consider. UGH!


----------



## Deb111

I guess he's saying, if your dh isn't producing sperm, clomid wont change that - but we know that already! We were basically told that, yes Terry has azoo obviously, but technically, he has a ridiculously low sperm count. We now know he's making some, but when mTESE was done and they only found 30 ish - that's just crazy! An average man produces thousands with every heartbeat! He has no way of knowing if that's the same for your dh.

I can only imagine how frustrated you must be feeling right now - personally, I would beg, plead, cry - do whatever it takes to at least give it a try - afterall - it's not going to cause any harm. If you want some info about what they did with Terry what his results were to show him and put your case forward, let me know.

Remind me, what were your dh's LH and FSH levels? Normal? High? xx


----------



## CanadianMaple

They were high. Let me look back and see... 

I would love the info. I may try to call him next week once we digest all of this a bit. It would even be great if we could boost his testosterone that way even if it doesn't affect his sperm.

He just seemed to think I wanted him on clomid for his sex drive. He said that would be the only reason why he would be prescribed testosterone was for that, and for effects long term like bone density. Only after I threw that out there. So he pretty much said that he would have issues once/if he does horomone therapy but would also have problems if not and should get bone density testing.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Here they are:
FSH: 21.4 (1-15)
LH: 14 High (1.24-7.8)
Testosterone: 4.2 Low (9-38)


----------



## rdleela

Becky, so sorry to hear you got this news! I can understand how devestated you must be :(

We LOVE our male infertility specialist, he's in Prince George, BC; this is who were are getting to do my DH's surgery. He'll do a phone consultation with you! Here is his website: https://www.cassidyurology.ca/
Would be worth a second opinion!

:hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

Canadian, I would try to push the dr to try the clomid treatment first. It is one of the cheaper (if not the cheapest) alternatives out there. Who is the dr to say that the hormone treatment won't help your DH? It might, or it might not, How will you guys know unless he lets you two try? :hugs: :flower: So frustrating when the dr seems to be in it for money rather than what is in best interest of you two.


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## Stinas

Canadian - Im sorry!!! I agree with the other ladies...a second opinion or just be a bitch and demand the clomid.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> It would be *SO* nice if everywhere was like the UK, where they actually help ppl with infertility treatments!!!!
> 
> Unfortunately you'd be pushing your luck to get NHS treatment with an azoo diagnosis as they're not prepared to deal with small numbers, or, in our experience, doing a synchronised cycle. They wrote us off :growlmad:Click to expand...

Hi SND :hi:

As Deb said, the treatment on the NHS is really hit and miss. There are rules as to who gets treated based on age, weight and whether you even have children! I'm thankful that we're getting at least one go with the NHS (although the government outlined that couples get THREE cycles, only some hospital trusts are honouring this - I will definitely be chasing this up if we don't get lucky first time!), after that, our hospital will charge around £5000 per ICSI cycle. 

It's annoying to think someone could have child after child with free treatment on the state, yet for any of us who have conditions stopping us from conceiving naturally, there's very limited support. 

Damn, if I could just win the Euromillions, I'd be sending you all big fat cheques so we can have our babies!

:hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Hey CM, 

First :hugs: and secondly, I think everyone has already given really good advice. Would you be able to discuss the Clomid option with the Dr and if you still get no joy, try and seek a second opinion?

I hope you get some feedback which helps you come to a decision that you're both comfortable with.

:hugs:

C xx


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## Deb111

Becky - give me a day or 2 to dig out hubby's old notes and find some figures - I've filed them since the :bfp: but will have a look over the weekend xx

EDIT - info on our first appt with Mr Ramsay is on p39 if you want to have a look x


----------



## silverbell

WANBMUM said:


> Thanks silverbell. That's exactly it, I am so disappointed and could cry at the drop of a hat (pretty much like that since azoo confirmed anyway ha) but in the other hand at least I know meds work and if we ever need ivf at least i know i can produce follicles. The plan is next cycle to do no meds, but without meds I might only have one or even none!?! So it could be another disappointing month. I just have to wait and see. The waiting and seeing is what kills me. Ha
> How are you doing silverbell? :)
> How

Ironically, Wanbmum, I found out exactly how you felt when your cycle was abandoned ... as my third was abandoned on Wednesday. :nope: I was over-stimulated, even though I was on the same dose as the previous cycle. I was even offered to convert to IVF as I had enough eggs for this, but we declined. I would quite like to try an unmedicated cycle as I never had any problems with a short luteal phase or any of this rubbish before all these drugs, but I don't get a choice as my clinic insist.



SunUp said:


> Alright, I know I have some serious catching up to do with posts and I promise I will catch up... but I wanted to drop by real quick, and share my good news! I got the go ahead to trigger tonight and I have IUI's SATURDAY and SUNDAY! AHHHHHHH. Official blood test day will be 5/29/12! I am so excited :)

Lots of luck to you SunUp :dust:



deafgal01 said:


> I'd appreciate it if you'd send a little prayer over here for a family I know. Their 12 yr old daughter became really sick with meningitis and became deaf very quickly (it took about a day to figure it out and actually get it diagnosed after finding out she had meningitis). Scary time for the family so they've been really depending on me to be there- which I wouldn't have been able to do as well if I was stuck at home with kids/babies. I guess that's one part of the reason why I still haven't had a baby yet by now. Thankfully the girl will be ok. I have been going to visit her at the hospital everyday since Wednesday.

What a wonderful thing you're doing, deafgal :hugs: 



snd80 said:


> I'm out. I started spotting again yesterday afternoon and real bad this morning. So I tested and BFN.... :cry: I'm just numb and can't figure out what went wrong!

I'm so, so, so sorry snd :hugs: Thinking very positive thoughts for you next time around. Second time lucky!



Step Mummy said:


> So all went smoothly, I have a brain like a sieve (it's the drugs!) so I can't remember the figures but I remember 3 out of 4 going in the right direction and we could see them swim towards the eggie.
> 
> So now in the dreaded TWW for the forth time.
> 
> Big FX for all of us in this time and those getting towards this stage. X

Good luck to you Step Mummy :dust:



MJ73 said:


> Just thought I better up-date y'all on what happened at the urologist today. I hope you don't mind if I C & P from my journal? I'm exhausted today; emotionally & otherwise....

Oh, MJ, what a lot to take in and think about. As if it's not enough to deal with azoospermia as it is without all of this going on too. Thinking of you :friends:



SunUp said:


> Oh MJ I have so been there. DH had surgery as an infant that messed up his testicles. And while we could have gone the mTESE route, it would have been putting his health in jeapordy (long term) and I just could NOT do that. So we will never really know about if / where he has sperm. It was hard at first, DH thought DS was weird. But I told him that what I love about him has nothing to do with genetics. Of course, I wanted DS from someone with similar genetics, but I don't love him for his eye color or hair color. I love him for his humor, how he can always make me smile even when I am really down, how he knows EVERYTHING about being outside etc. These are things DH will still pass on to OUR children. He is the best thing that has happened to me and one day, our child(ren) will be the best thing that happen to US.
> DS is not an easy choice, but remember, it is just that - a choice. But that child will completely be yours, and your hubbys, from the second it implants.
> I do send you lots of hugs because I understand where you are at right now, but I promise you, you will not be down long! Even if I have to fly all the way over there and 'smack' a smile back on your face. LOL! (Annnnd you'd have to show me all around because where you live is my dream vaca!)

SunUp, what a beautiful post. Thank you so much. This is exactly how we feel and everything you say is true. :hugs:



Soili said:


> We're rather against biopsy at the moment, because it appears that the reason they don't swim is because the tails are structured in the way that it makes it impossible to begin with. Hens, I don't believe they'll find anything different in biopsy. Of course, if they say they'll do ICSI in we agree on biopsy, than it'll be a different story.

I could be wrong, but I thought with ICSI they cut the tails off anyway? I could be totally wrong here though???



CanadianMaple said:


> Not good news.
> 
> $1500 for a needle and a 20% chance
> $4000 for open surgery. 45% chance.
> 
> He wasn't interested in treating him with clomid to boost his T.
> He said he would give him T if he doesn't want to do that until we are done with fertility stuff.
> 
> Those percentages are just for sperm. Ivf also only has a 50/50 chance.
> 
> I'm so frustrated that this all comes down to money. So frustrated he won't treat the low T with something. He says that rarely works.

I have to say I was amazed at your percentage chances and couldn't understand why you said it wasn't good news, as our chances were 5%. However, I can understand the money issue and it's a big concern on top of the chances, isn't it? I wish we all had endless amounts of money. It's sick that so many of us are struggling to get what so many others take completely for granted.

As for not treating the low T - when we saw our specialist - Mr Ramsay - last year we asked about treatment and he said in our case it wasn't necessary, yet I know he prescribed treatment for Deb's husband. My DH had lowish Testosterone (9) and very high FSH. It's weird how some will treat and some won't :shrug:


----------



## Deb111

silverbell said:


> As for not treating the low T - when we saw our specialist - Mr Ramsay - last year we asked about treatment and he said in our case it wasn't necessary, yet I know he prescribed treatment for Deb's husband. My DH had lowish Testosterone (9) and very high FSH. It's weird how some will treat and some won't :shrug:

Might be the combination of the 2 :shrug: From memory, Terry's T was 4.3 and his FSH was only very slightly raised, meaning that his body hadn't done all it could yet and could be pushed higher. Hope you're doing ok SB xx


----------



## silverbell

That makes a lot of sense actually because now I remember him saying poor DH's FSH was so high it was clear his body was doing all it could to rectify the problem itself.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Silverbell- unfortunately, 20% is still very poor numbers. Thn if any are even useable, thy will freeze the and make him repeat the procedure again for a fresh cycle. Then with the 50% IVF success rate, it drops us down to a 10% pregnancy rate. :(. Sorry to sound defensive but it may not be 5% but it's still not good odds for the pain and money.


----------



## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> Silverbell- unfortunately, 20% is still very poor numbers. Thn if any are even useable, thy will freeze the and make him repeat the procedure again for a fresh cycle. Then with the 50% IVF success rate, it drops us down to a 10% pregnancy rate. :(. Sorry to sound defensive but it may not be 5% but it's still not good odds for the pain and money.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't saying it's good odds and I did say obviously when you put the money into the equation it does change things.

:hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm still thinking about calling the doctor about the clomid or trying something along those lines. DH has pretty much ruled out donor sperm. We're feeling like we're close to the end of the line on this journey. :(


----------



## snd80

:hugs: CM!!!! I thought he was on board w/ DS if push came to shove?

My hubby said if we exhaust all our 2 vials of DS we have left, that is it, and it scares the crap outta me!!!! IDK how I will cope if/when it is finally "over", ya know?! It is liable to not be a good ending.... :nope:


----------



## Deb111

CM - I'm really sorry I haven't got round to letting you have hubby's blood test results / info - things have been really busy. I haven't forgotten though xx


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## Stinas

CM - Im sorry! You never know...hopefully things will turn around. I would make the call for the clomid...you cant go wrong.


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## CanadianMaple

Deb111 said:


> CM - I'm really sorry I haven't got round to letting you have hubby's blood test results / info - things have been really busy. I haven't forgotten though xx

No worries. It was the long weekend here and I am still trying to gather my thoughts. Do you know off hand how high one's LH and FSH can be pushed? 

His father said something about donor sperm, like he isn't really on board with that idea. His mom is. He really looks up to his dad and I think that's part of the reason he's backed away from it all. I'm feeling so scared/sad/mad that he may take our plan B off the table but know he has to be 100% on board too. I just wish he could consider my feelings too. I feel like we're living two different lives through this part.

Chris thinks I should be happy with my little boy I already have. I am and appreciate him every single day. His father is a deadbeat and has gone MIA. I want to experience pregnancy and childbirth with a partner. If I had known those baby days were my only chance, I would have lived every moment in them. I don't want my little boy to be an only child if I can avoid it. He asked me today for a baby since he's the only kid without a sibling at his babysitter's. 

What do you do if your spouse wants to give up and you don't? We're nearing our first wedding anniversary and it feels like this first year was a nightmare. Even his low T is killing our sex life. 

I know it will be better tomorrow. I'll be busy and back to work. I just feel like I'm having a panic attack or something tonight. I haven't felt this claustrophobic about it all in months.


----------



## Stinas

CM - Im sorry you are feeling like this and I wish I could help! All I can suggest is communication. It really helps in our situations. Stupid as it sounds, it really does.


----------



## raelynn

CM - I'm with Stinas on this. It took a long time for hubby and I to be able to discuss things without him shutting down but I stuck with it. You both need to get your personal feelings out on the table so you can see where the other one is coming from. Just keep trying and if it is too much, just set aside a little bit of time each week to talk things over. Eventually, you two will have to weight your options and come up with a decision together. Marriage is all about communication and compromise. Infertility just puts a lot more strain on everything but once you work through it, it will be a big relief just to know you've come to a decision together. Best of luck!


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## MJ73

CM, oh hun, so sorry you're going through this :hugs:. If it's any comfort it's taken Simon nearly 2 years to get his head around the idea of donor sperm & even then it was only when all other avenues had exhausted. Already we've probably borrowed & spent close to $30k AU; for us it was about following the path if least regret, but everyone has to do what's right for them. Hang in there CM, some days are darker than others. Infertility, especially azoo puts a huge strain on our relationships. I've found that it's especially messed with Simon's sense of self & who he is as a man. Not to mention the way that it messes with our sex life. Simon & I went from making love 5 times a week to being lucky if we made love once a month... The things that I hold onto on the tough days are what we _do_ have in common, the places where we _meet_ rather than the areas where we differ. Somehow, slowly things do get better. The bad days become fewer & the good days more common & you realise within yourself a strength, dignity & determination (as evident in all the girls on this thread) to just get through it, however you can.... 

My Mum used to say to me "How do you eat an elephant?" (I used to think 'Why the hell would I want to eat an elephant?') But of course the answer is "One mouthful at a time"... And that's what we're all doing, chomping away at that (azoo) elephant one mouthful at a time. On the days when I'm too tired & exhausted or just too full of grief to take a mouthful, I come on here & I'm so inspired & comforted that I just grab that bloody elephant by the trunk & start chomping... Peace & strength to you Canadian :flow: You are not alone.


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## Mercury1

So..... had the urology follow-up today. Genetic test results not yet back, although I guess not so much emphasis on that as they think it's purely related to undescended testicles esp as there were sperm a few years ago. And from the 5 samples he's given at Hammersmith we have the grand total of 1 immotile sperm :nope: which they've frozen, but he's advised us not to rely just on that!!!!!

So offered a referral to UCH and Suks Minhas for mTESE, but I've asked for one to Mr Ramsay instead, and he was happy to do that. He talked about Schelgel and Cornell and said that although he was the pioneer, the microscopes here are the same, it's just that Schelgel will spend hours and hours looking and has an embryologist on standby to analyse the samples straight away which is why his results are better. Not that it matters much, but I think I've read before that Ramsay says the technology is different :shrug:

OH is not happy to say the least. I think he's come to terms with needing surgery pretty easily after a wobble before, but this is such a long and stressful journey and at the moment I feel like I'm dealing with a toddler who's going to have a tantrum any minute and lie on the floor and scream that it's not fair. Which it isn't, but the prospect of having to seriously consider donor sperm is getting increasingly likely, and that would be a painful thing. Coming out the other side both on board with DS would be great, but the process of getting there could be tough. 

Next step is IVF assessment for me tomorrow to go on the waiting list, and then wait for the appt with Mr R. And still waiting for the genetic results and hoping they haven't been lost so we'd be back on the wait for them before moving forward

Sending lots of positive thoughts to all of you. This bit feels tough enough, but must be more manageable than for those of you who're at the treatment stage where the stakes are so high and a rollercoaster of emotions :hugs:


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh it's a tough week for the ladies here. :hugs: Hope you get some good news from Mr. R. I'm glad you were able to get referral to him.

CM and SND- that's horrible. Feels like a step backwards doesn't it? :hugs: I hope that you're able to sit down and have a proper chat with your husband over the donor thing.

:hugs: all around to all of you who need an extra hug this week. Hang in there. This journey isn't easy- and life's really not fair. But we'll all get there eventually and stare in wonder at our babies when we have them.


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## Deb111

CM - From what I can remember FSH can be pushed up to the high 30's even low 40's. 

We've had a neighbourhood watch meeting here tonight but I promise to dig out the info for you tomorrow. I will also track down the info on my LTTTC journal about the relationship between pushing up the FSH and raising T


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## Stinas

MJ73 - Very well said!!! I really like the elephant....its a good thing to think of on our off days.!

Mercury1 - Im sorry your apt didnt go so well. I hope your next apt goes much better! Getting the azoo diagnoses is bad as it is, but when we go to these apts and get worse news just plain old sucks. It really is not fair. 

I agree with deafgal01...its been a pretty shitty week for our thread.....I hope it turns around soon! 

This time next week I will have a better understanding as to whats causing the azoo. DH apt with the urologist where they go in to see where the potential blockage is tuesday. I pray every single day that its an easy fix...even though none of this is easy to begin with. 
I pray for us all to conquer this azoo crap! It really does put such a damper on things. I heard 2 stories today of trash people treating their kids like rag dolls and getting them taken away(thank god). I just dont understand how we are not able to have kids, but these people are....it just drives me crazy....i know i have said it before, but I will continue to say it....it really makes you question many beliefs we might have grown up with. Just makes my mind go nuts! Sorry for the rant!


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## Suzie1985

Hi ladies,

Mind if I join you here?

I am 26 and my DH is 39. TTC for one year with no joys. Decided to get some tests done privately a couple of weeks ago. Mine came back fine but hubby's SA wasn't good. All we got told was his result wasn't good and we needed to repeat the tests and then started talking to us about IVF. To say we were shocked is an understatement.

Went on holiday for a couple of weeks and received the results in the post. They basically say he produced 0.45ml in volume and that single immotile sperm seen initially. 18 immotile sperm seen on wet slide. I'm guessing that isn't good?

Anyway I sent him off to his drs to do another sample and he was told to phone the hospital to do this.
Hospital said to bring in a sample ASAP. Not sure how long results will take though?
Dr never mentioned any blood tests though which you ladies mention in your posts?

I have also booked an appointment with a urologist to hopefully find out some answers.

Sorry to waffle. Sometimes it helps to talk x


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## deafgal01

Oh Suzie- feel free to join us. Hopefully they find sperms in the new SA from your husband. :hugs: It's frustrating waiting for all the results and appointments, isn't it? The fact that they found sperms is good... The fact that the number is pretty low, not great but at least they have something to work with. Keep us posted on the upcoming appts and feel free to nose thru this forum to see where we all have started from and are currently at now.


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## Mercury1

Hi Suzie :wave: sorry to hear your news. 

Repeating the sample is pretty standard - the counts can vary enormously and a bad result could be a one-off. It's unlikely to come back as normal, but there's a huge difference between something and nothing in the samples. The results should get sent back to the GP, so likely to be a week or two at least before you can get them. I would say though that what jumps out is his volume seems rather low - one possibility could be retrograde ejaculation - I don't know too much about diagnosing it, but cloudy urine after sex can be a pointer if he has that as well, as the sperm are ending up back down the wrong tube rather than where they should be........ 

Please also check the samples are centrifuged (should say on the report) as it's a more thorough technique. Then the urologist will do all the bloods and examinations you've read about to see if the issue is a blockage or if it's a production problem. Then once you know where the problem is you can work on getting good swimmers out! Simple! :haha: (if only)

Hope that helps as a starting point! Good luck....

AFM - now on the waiting list for ICSI. Apparently the PCT offer 2 funded cycles, but the waiting list is 3 years!!!!!! :dohh: Still, need the Ramsay/mTese experience as that may not even be an option if he can't work his magic. So plenty of time to start saving :thumbup:

Positive thoughts to everyone! If you're in the UK then I hope the sunshine is helping with these tough times xx


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## Stinas

Suzie1985 - Im sorry you ended up here!....but on the bright side...all these lovely ladies are AMAZING and a HUGE help!!! If some sperm is found and it is good....be happy for that....but just to warn you....it is a long road...hopefully it wont have to be, but apts seem to be a huge issue when it comes to waiting. So book whatever you need to book the day you are told to book. It helps to get it done right away. 

Mercury1 - 3 YEARS!!!?!?!? WTF?!! Seriously...I really dont understand why there are waiting lists at all. Just go in and find the damn sperm! grrrr!!!! Makes me sooo mad! Dont they understand how difficult this already is for us!?! I hope it all happens a whole lot sooner than that for you.


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## tigerlily1975

Hi Mercury :hi:

Are you under Hammersmith? We're under Queen Charlotte's, but we're under Hammersmith IVF, so I'm really shocked by the waiting list as THREE years!! We've our ICSI planning appt next week, so I'll be 'interested' to see what they say to us! Considering the additional difficulties we face being 35+, can they really expect us to wait that long?

I hope you get your appointment with the magical Mr Ramsay soon!

:hugs: to all!!

C xx


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## Suzie1985

Thank you girls.

I know the volume isn't much but he has never ejaculated much. He did say he struggled to get it all in the pot. :wacko: so maybe there was loads more that ended up elsewhere lol.
Can't seen the word centrifuged anywhere on the report?
To be honest really wast impressed with where we went for it doing. They looked at us like they had never seen anything like it and made us feel very small.

Think we are going to bring our appointment with Mr Ramsay forward to the end of June instead of end of July. I have no patience. Think I'll need to work on this.
Does anyone else find his PA really difficult to get hold of? Or is it just me? X


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## Deb111

Welcome Suzie

I've never had a problem getting hold of Mr Ramsay's PA - if she doesn't answer, she's always called back within 10/15 mins. Are you calling the number ending in 7669? I think there's a couple of different numbers for her - maybe one is better than the other?

MJ - meant to say when I posted yesterday, LOVE the elephant analogy :thumbup:


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## tigerlily1975

Hello Suzie, 

Firstly :hugs: very sorry to see you here with us, but it's good you've found us, it's not easy going through this 'alone'. Everyone here is fantastic, if you need support, advice or even just to have a moan.. you really couldn't have found a better place or a nicer bunch of ladies. 

As Stinas said, the good news is that they found some, that really is a huge step you've overcome there. Hopefully the 2nd SA will come back with some better news for both of you. 

From what I hear, Mr Ramsay is the man, hopefully he'll be able to help you, too.

:hugs:

C xx


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## Suzie1985

Your words mean a lot girls. Never expected to find myself here, but then who does. 

Slowly getting through all the pages and trying to get to know everyone.

Yes Deb, called the number ending in 669. Maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow when I ring x


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## Mercury1

Stinas - tell me about it!!!!](*,) the urologist at the local hospital did say it's ironic that they do the sperm-hunting on the NHS, but then it gets left in the freezer for 3 years! I'm not focusing on it too much at the moment, as just hoping there is sperm to hunt for, but it is crazy!

Tigerlily - I'm in Wandsworth, but they don't have an IVF unit anymore. OH got sent to Hammersmith as they have the nearest freezing services (for the 1 sperm we have :rofl:) but they expect us to go to St Heliers/The Bridge for the tx I think. I get the impression it's particularly bad here - Croydon PCT is next door, and that's 6 months. Surrey have only just re-instated funding, so it's all changing. Hope your meeting goes smoothly - how much sperm do you have waiting?

I'm still a bit annoyed that this appointment today was so pointless. For the first time I felt like we was just a number and not being taken seriously. The urologists and GPs have been so good so far. OH didn't really notice as he's still reeling from yesterday's news, but has been out to buy co-enzyme Q10, Zinc and brazil nuts of his own accord. Who says nagging doesn't pay off :haha:


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## Mercury1

Suzie - someone on another site has said that Mr R is on holiday until tomorrow which might be why there's some delays in getting back to you.


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## Suzie1985

Managed to get through and brought our appointment through to end of June. Better than end of July x


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## SunUp

Hey girls!
Just caught up with the posts, I haven't been on much due to working like crazy... but I really hope we get some good news soon, we need some joy on this thread.

Although, the elephant thing was amazing and I love it!

Sending hugs and loads of baby dust in all you girls direction so we can get some more BFPs on here!!!


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## Deb111

Mercury1 said:


> Suzie - someone on another site has said that Mr R is on holiday until tomorrow which might be why there's some delays in getting back to you.

I had an email from him on Tuesday :shrug:


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## snd80

Welcome Susie! Sorry you have had to join us, but at least they found SOME :spermy:, which is more than some of us can say! :thumbup: So as hard as it might be, look at the bright side of that.... and we are all here for you anytime. This group of girls is awesome, and I personally don't know where I would be without all of their support!!!!! :flower:

Good to see you back Mercury.... hopefully you will get sorted out soon!!! 

MJ- LOVE the elephant analogy!!! That will be my new way of looking at things!!!

Hope everyone else is doing ok. :hugs:

AFM- One week from today I will _hopefully_ be going back to Jackson for my 2nd DIUI. Been trying to get back in the gym in the mean time, which has been horrid since these past 2 weeks have been pure hell! I have gained 4lbs since May 2nd!!!!!! {insert throwing-up little man here} I am so ashamed! But it is what it is! Plus I have to start looking for a new car this weekend too.... :nope: My poor little car has had it. It is using soooo much oil (have had to put 2 quarts in in a week!) and is starting to smoke everytime I drive it. *sigh* Hubby is pissed! He told me I needed to choose; a car or a baby. I told him we've come too far to back out, so looks like it will be both!!! :haha: It's just always something, but isn't that life? So, yeah, that's what I'm dealing with. :shrug: Guess I better start chomping on that elephant, even though my weight says I already have!!!! :rofl:


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## SunUp

I know SND, when it rains, it pours! I really hope you have the 2nd IUI next week and that it works. I am crossing my fingers for you now and they will stay crossed until your bfp!!

Susie, hope you get more answers soon.

AFM, I'm just tearing into my elephant... chomp chomp chomp!


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## Stinas

snd - LMAO on the elephant! Im sorry your car is dying! SunUp is right...when it rains it sure as hell pours! 

SunUp - at the moment i think we are all chomping away at the elephant....i sure know I am! lol


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## deafgal01

Yup I am def chomping on the elephant. :rofl:

:hi: hope y'alls have a nice relaxing weekend planned. I get to go to a cousin's wedding today. I hate to think this but I bet they get pregnant before I do at this rate. :dohh:


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## raelynn

deafgirl - I know what you mean! My cousin is supposed to get married next year and I keep saying if she ends up pregnant before I do I'll be so upset!

But....AF finally showed for me! So I'll be starting my birth control round on Monday and we get our IVF calendar when our nurse gets back from vacation on 6/5. I can't believe we're finally getting started!


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## snd80

Sun- ??? Did you start or something?


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## snd80

Yay Rae! =)


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## deafgal01

Yay Rae! Bring it on this cycle!!!! I'd be so thrilled for you to get the bfp before your cousin's wedding next year!!!


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## raelynn

Ha ha thanks ladies! I'm just glad to be finally actively doing something. All the waiting makes me a little crazy and then I obsess over things like IVF schedules and research just to distract me.

Are any of you telling work? I'd rather not if I can get by without it since I don't want to have to explain anything if this cycle doesn't work. I have plenty of sick days saved up but I don't know if it will be too many too close to each other that will make it seem suspicious.


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## deafgal01

No way! I won't tell work. Might tell my boss but nobody else needs to know my business. My boss might be understanding as she has had ivf before to get pregnant with her daughter.


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## raelynn

My boss is great but he is a male and I feel like that might be kind of awkward. Plus, I'd rather work not know I'm trying to get pregnant until it actually happens. Maybe I'll get lucky and either ER or ET will land on a weekend so I'll just have to take one day off. I think I can do the morning scans and still get into work on time since I already had to go once for day 3 follicle count and made it back but it is a tight window unless I can get in a little earlier than I did for that appointment.


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## luckdragon

hi girls just thought i'd pop in to see if your all ok, and see how you are getting on. I've just completed my first ivf treatment. 
Hope your all ok and wishing you lots of babydust xxx


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## Deb111

Is that a :bfp: I spy in your siggy luckdragon?!?! :happydance:

Great news for those of you about to get started :thumbup:


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## Deb111

So here's the info I promised you

*Terry's blood test results in April 2011 before any meds were started*
T - 4.3 nmol/L (normal 8.6 - 29.0) LOW
LH - 10 IU/L (normal 2 - 9) SLIGHTLY RAISED
FSH - 17 IU/L (normal 2 - 12) SLIGHTLY RAISED
Oestradiol - 82 pmol/L (normal 50 - 218) NORMAL

*July 2011 - after being on Tamoxifen for a couple of weeks*
T - 13.4 nmol/L (normal 8.6 - 29.0) WITHIN NORMAL 
LH - 17 IU/L (normal 2 - 9) HIGH AS YOU'D EXPECT WITH MEDS
FSH - 28 IU/L (normal 2 - 12) HIGH AS YOU'D EXPECT WITH MEDS
Oestradiol - 233 pmol/L (normal 50 - 218) HIGH

*17th August 2011 - After being on Tamoxifen for about 8 weeks* 
T - 12.2 nmol/L (normal 8.6 - 29.0) WITHIN NORMAL
FSH - 23.7 IU/L (normal 2 - 12) HIGH AS YOU'D EXPECT WITH MEDS
Oestradiol - 321 pmol/L (normal 50 - 218) TOO HIGH

*After being switched to Anastrazole for about 3 weeks in an aim to reduce oestradiol but keep T and FSH high - and it worked! *
T - 13.6 pmol/L so still raised 
FSH - 35 iu/L so FSH is being driven even higher which is good 
Oestradiol - 157 pmol/L - so coming down as it should be 

So pre-meds, the NHS found 3 sperm and they were all from the same side which told Mr R that that was the best choice of side to go for. After meds he got about 40 and the rest as they say is history.

Also found this info back in my journal ...
He was also telling us interesting stuff about the research on the effectiveness of tamoxifen in azoospermic men and how it is only suitable for a very specific group of men who have slightly raised FSH in conjunction with low testosterone. He said if the FSH is too high, the tamoxifen will be totally ineffective. So hubby is now feeling he's in a very select little group - bless him!

He was also saying that the only research to be done into tamoxifen in men is whether natural pregnancy rates are increased and the evidence is that they're not, but no study has been done into using it in preparation for microTESE. For example, he may have been making 1,000 without the tamoxifen and may now be making 100,000 so whilst microTESE / ICSI could be hugely effective, it's still minute in terms of the number needed for a natural pregnancy.

Hope it helps - I just don't see how he can not even be prepared to give it a try - nothing to lose as far as I can tell xx


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## Stinas

deafgal01 & raelynn - I know how you guys feel about all these newlyweds getting preg before you. I am in the same boat. More and more pass by as the time goes by. It drives me crazy....not in a jealous way, but i have my poor me moments. Everyone I know that got married before and after me are now pregnant. I always thought I would have a honeymoon baby...here I am 2yrs later. I believe it will happen soon. Dont beat yourself up about it. Easier said than done...i know.

luckdragon - CONGRATS!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!

Tuesday is our Prostatic ultrasound!!!!(Deb You can update me on first page if you like) Cant wait to get some more answers and see whats next for us!


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## CanadianMaple

Thank you Deb. Chris's FSH is high, but not crazy high. I wish they would try something. DH is very afraid of the TESE and I don't think I can get him to do that. The clinic didn't even have a price for us, since they said that no one ever does it. It was like they were brushing us off. How I wish we had the option for a second opinion. Is it even worth pushing for if he may only do the TESA? I feel so mad that we waited all these months and they barely even explained the TESA or mTESE risks, recovery times, etc... If anyone is comfortable sharing, how much was the mTESE? I'm feeling so lost. I'm questioning everything now, whether I even want a baby or just to get out of this nightmare and never look back. Our first year anniversary is coming up in July. I want our second year to be better than our first. He'll be 44 in September.

I do need to see if I can talk to the urologist soon. But I worry it's my only chance to get answers and it annoys me that I have to call him back after waiting 5 months and not getting answers from him.


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## raelynn

CanadianMaple - We didn't do the mTESE we did the TESE but we got price quotes for both. The TESE was $4,000 before insurance but they coded it for testicular failure and we only had to pay something like $200. The mTESE was $10,000 and was not eligible for insurance coverage. I'm sure pricing is different everywhere but those were the prices for us here.


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## MrsC8776

CM~ We had TESE done and it honestly wasn't that much. It was $400.00 for the urologist. He said we may get a bill for a little more but nothing over $100.00 extra. Then the added cost for DH to be put to sleep which was $440.00 and the $100.00 storage fee. So all together about $940.00. Although they did charge us $567.00 rather than the 440 they quoted so I need to call on that Tuesday. We have no insurance coverage so that was all out of pocket. 

I hope this helps :flower:


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## CanadianMaple

Wow, it's no wonder you all have gone that route. I'm in Canada and this stuff isn't covered by our national healthcare. I will have to pay the hospital fee, the anesthesiologist, the embryologist, urologist. They guessed $4000 but I had the feeling it would be even more than that. I wish something was covered, it seems unfair that it's a true medical issue and we're paying like someone would for plastic surgery or something. :(


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## raelynn

The $4,000 we were quoted included the hospital fee, urologist's fee, and so on. So that is probably pretty close to the price of everything out-of-pocket. It definitely came down to a money decision between the TESE and mTESE for us. We just couldn't rationalize spending $10,000 on top of IVF costs and not knowing if they'd even be able to find anything. I left it up to hubby for the final decision since it was more personal to him.


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## cosita

Hi everyone:flower:
I haven't been in on in ages and just came on to see if there have been any new developments with you all. I'm glad to see everyone is in pretty good form and am so sorry to see new people here (but glad you found us). 
For us there is no news at all. We went for our IVF/ICSI appt and were told that we shouldn't go forward without a plan B. They have no way of knowing if the immotile sperm they found in TESE will work or not and basically said that if I am going to take all the meds and spend that money well we shouldn't let it go to waste. 
In my last post I mentioned that I had a rockin abscess on my buttcheek. Well that took a while to clear up and seems I have a fistula:cry:. Because I couldn't bare the pain of another one, I am going to have it operated on but have to have a few tests first. So basically we have put on TTC on the long finger. We have waited this long and I don't want to risk any complications with pregnancy for a frickin fistula. 
By the way, I love the elephant thing thats going on. As I have in signature I have always felt that I have been dealing with the 'elephant in the room' with the azoo thing, and the metaphor continues!! It's all so true. And elephants are so beautiful!!!
Girls, I'll be roaming in and out from time to time and I really wish you all the best. I'm here is anyone has any questions about my journey. 
Have a great Sunday!!:hugs:


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## Deb111

Lovely to hear from you cosita. I was thinking the other day, has anyone heard anything from Sar lately? 

CM - our mTESE cost £3500 and then a £590 storage fee for what they have left over.

I know everyone's different and it could be down to the difference between the NHS and private, but Terry would have mTESE over the other procedures anyday! Having an open biopsy seems to mean a lot less poking around and definitely meant the difference between a lot of pain and discomfrot and none at all! I know, frustratingly it's also down to money too :hugs:

I really do think whichever route you decide to go down and for whatever reasons, there is NO HARM in trying something like anastrazole. If it can just increase minute numbers to a few more, it gives them a much better chance of finding them.

Did you ever have a phone consultation with Dr Turek? It might be interesting to get his opinion directly. I know it helped us to push forward on the right track even though we didn't use him and all we had to pay was the cost of the phonecall


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## SunUp

snd80 said:


> Sun- ??? Did you start or something?

Nah. Just poas bfn yesterday. Dpiui 12/13.


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## Deb111

Big higs SunUp :hugs: There's still time though - I didn't get my :bfp: til equivalent of 14dpo xx


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## MJ73

Hello lovely ladies:flower: 

So nice to hear from you Cosita, hope the fistula heals up nicely after the surgery.

CM, we live in Aus & they only do a local anesthetic, so we didn't ahve to pay for a general anesthetic. Simon's part of our procedure cost us about $1500 out of pocket. That's after private health cover & govt medicare rebates. Upfront I think it was 3-4k AU$... Last time Simon had 16 needle aspirations then ended up having a biopsy also. OUCH! He was in ALOT of pain & still gets pain over a year later.

Hope everyone is ok. Sun, hang in there. Like Deb said, there's still time yet. We're all here for you either way.:hugs:

AFM, we see our FS on weds to talk to him about the cancer thing & all the issues around that. Also, at our clinic we have to BYO donor & it looks like we may have a donor, please everyone keep fingers crossed that this works out as it would take so much pressure off us.

Sending you all many :hug::hugs:
MJ xx


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## Deb111

Thinking of you MJ and hoping that things with the donor get sorted and that you get some answers about Simon xx :hugs:


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## MJ73

Thanks Deb, I'm just looking forward to moving onto the next stage now IYKWIM... Donor or not; any baby we have will be loved to bits, so bring on some action. I just want things happening, rather than nothing happening. I think we have kind of decided that if our last frozen emby doesn't take then we will just move on to donor rather than waiting any longer. This 'ol gal ain't gettin any younger!!!:winkwink:


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## Deb111

Don't give up hope on your frozen emby sweetie - azoo embies seem to like to be frozen! :winkwink:


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## luckdragon

Yes I did indeed get my bfp the day before yesterday :) first go at ivf as well ad I only had one embryo put back as I wanted to reduce the risk of twins! Dh and I are goof for a scan in 2 weeks to check that everything is ok xx


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## Deb111

Congratulations LuckDragon :happydance: - H&H 9 months to you!


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## luckdragon

Thank you deb :) I can't believe just over a year ago we were told dh had no sperm and we wouldn't have a baby! It just goes to show there is hope! I let him pick the donor from the European sperm bank! Has cost us 2500 in all as I did an egg share. Fingers crossed it's a earthy sticky one :)


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## rdleela

Congrats, Luckdragon!!:happydance:


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: Congrats Luck! Hope this :dust: is spreading and catching on to the rest of us!


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## MoBaby

hey ladies! i was just checking in/folowing up on everyone. so much to read! deb i just read your post on the tamoxifen..my dh has slightly high fsh, slightly low testosterone, maybe we should look into this?

we have been fortunate that dh has made just enough sperm for our 2 icsi cycles. unfortunately we are onto 3 after my beanie didnt stick around. scheduled around july 16. im in bcp now. he will go soon for a backup. they have a sample with 20 or so frozen still but they werent hopeful those would thaw. so we will do more. i think we may try to leave 2 or 3 samples if the count is very low (too low for icsi). im just nervous we will get there and no sperm will come out. i have had him on fertailaid and count boost and fish oil for several months; who knows if that will workbut to me i dont want to risk not trying. he is trying to diet also and lost 10 lbs (he needs to lose 60 more). he hasnt been as good lately with his end of year being now and parties, cook outs, etc. 

im going on wednesday for my HSS..it was fine last year but im nervous because i have a fibroid which had grown almost double since yhe two cycles and d/c..it looked to be degenerating at ultrasound so as long as its not effecting the cavity i think it will be okay. i am going to make sure 100% with the re he doesnt want to remove it now. in my opinion if there is even the smallest thought it needs to come out lets do it because this is #3, all cost out of pocket and i want to be aggressive as possible. im also going to ask for 3 to be put back. re most likely wont agree but i have to ask. knowing my luck all 3 would stick. but i need to ask. im upset at myself for not asking last time because we had a 3rd blast that wasnt good for freezingnso i feel like it was just wasted :( wish i would have had that option. my last question will be to move up the cycle. i would like to go the first week of july as my 30 th birthday is mid july and i want to be done. its selfish and silly i know. i was told the schedule is full before then but i feel like re could fit me in this being my third. not that it makes me a special patient or anything. i also need to make sure no crazy change in my labs. my AFC was 26 so I was happy about that. okay my post is way long; sorry!


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## deafgal01

Good luck MoBaby! :hugs: Hope it works out for you!


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## tigerlily1975

Hi everyone :hi:

It sounds like many of us are having a rotten time of it these last few weeks, I'm sending big :hugs: :hugs: to all



Mercury1 said:


> Tigerlily - I'm in Wandsworth, but they don't have an IVF unit anymore. OH got sent to Hammersmith as they have the nearest freezing services (for the 1 sperm we have :rofl:) but they expect us to go to St Heliers/The Bridge for the tx I think. I get the impression it's particularly bad here - Croydon PCT is next door, and that's 6 months. Surrey have only just re-instated funding, so it's all changing. Hope your meeting goes smoothly - how much sperm do you have waiting?

We actually don't know how many they retrieved from the TESE (... :wacko:), I'm hoping we'll find out tomorrow. We had our post-op appointment with the consultant a week after DH's op and he didn't seem to have anything for us (or know anything about us!), aside from a piece of paper to make our IVF/ICSI appointment! 

Dear Sun and SND, I hope your next cycle leads to lovely BFPs :hugs:

I'm so sorry to hear about your cycles MoBaby :hugs: Will your DH have to have surgery? Good luck for cycle 3, I hope you get the best 30th Birthday present imaginable. 

Congratulation LuckDragon! That's wonderful news! :happydance:

MJ: GOOD LUCK!! I'll be keeping everything (even fingers and toes) crossed that you get some good news! Boy, do you deserve it, hun! :hugs:

Stinas: I hope you get some good news on the U/S, good luck! :hugs:

CM: Have you had anymore thoughts about what you're going to do next? This is all so tough and I just wish the 'money factor' didn't have to make it even harder. Big :hugs:

Raelynn: Yay for getting started! :happydance:

Big :hi: and :hugs: to Deb, SilverBell, DeafGal and anyone else I've missed (sorry!), I hope we all have happier days ahead. 

I've just been completing all the consent forms ahead of our appoinment tomorrow.. I feel like I'm signing my life away! Still not liking the words 'injections' and 'suppositories' *gulp* :haha:

Much love, 

C xx


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## deafgal01

Tiger- good luck to you tomorrow. Hope you get some kind of good news tomorrow.


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## Deb111

MoBaby - good luck hun - it's def worth a try to ask about the tamoxifen / anastrazole

Tiger - good luck tomorrow hun - I hope you get some more answers


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## WANBMUM

Luckdragon! WOOOHOOOOOO congrats - that is amazing news! Well done :) You guys must be estatic!


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## Stinas

cosita - Sooo nice to hear from you!!! Sorry you are at a standstill! This azoo is literally a pain in the ass! 

SunUp - Sorry about the BFN!

MJ - I will be thinking of you guys!!! Good luck!

luckdragon - Thats just amazing news!! CONGRATS! 

MoBaby - Good luck!!

Tiger - Thank you and good luck to you too tom!!!

As for me....we do the u/s tom!!! I am very anxious! DH is not happy about the enema he has to do before the apt, but i know he wants to know whats going on, so he is trying to forget whats going to happen lol Poor guy!


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## CanadianMaple

Tigerlily1975- Thanks for asking. We're still at a total standstill. Good luck with the appointment. I hope you have all of the answers you need to proceed.

Stinas- Good luck with the u/s!

Raelynn- I've been thinking about you. 

MoBaby- I hope they find lots of sperm and you get the ones you need. It's nerve wracking to wait and wonder.

Luckdragon- So great to see happy news in here! :)

I have to go to work and can't flip back right now to totally get caught up. I know I missed some of you and I apologize. 

I know I should call the clinic but haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. I'm just so mad at the clinic. We have not been told the risks/recovery of any of the procedures and we didn't even realize the TESA would have to be done twice. DH is refusing TESE at this time. I feel like the doctor didn't really lay it all out for us. I still want to ask about testosterone but then I wonder what that would mean? More delays? Would they keep checking his levels and support us? DH is warming up slightly to DS, but I'm seriously scared of that option. For the first time, I am really thinking about giving up and reclaiming my life.


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## MoBaby

Cm: clinics make me mad not calling you! Mine didn't call me back recently about the results of my ultrasound. it's so frustrating when you're waiting for results especially the ones you want hopefully you guys get some good results and fingers crossed for finding sperm


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## Deb111

CanadianMaple said:


> I know I should call the clinic but haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. I'm just so mad at the clinic. We have not been told the risks/recovery of any of the procedures and we didn't even realize the TESA would have to be done twice. DH is refusing TESE at this time. I feel like the doctor didn't really lay it all out for us. I still want to ask about testosterone but then I wonder what that would mean? More delays? Would they keep checking his levels and support us? DH is warming up slightly to DS, but I'm seriously scared of that option. For the first time, I am really thinking about giving up and reclaiming my life.

Could you email the clinic so you can get exactly what you want to ask down on paper in front of him and then speak to him in the phone to discuss your email. That way he is prepared for what you want to ask and you're not left feeling like things haven't been asked or answered once the phonecall is over? I just think you might feel more in control - I know I would if it was me. Also, please remember not to feel bad about questionning him - you are paying for this, it is a very important issue for you and your dh (even if you feel just like you're a number to the FS!) and you have a right to these answers xx


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## CanadianMaple

The clinic doesn't do email, as far as I know. I called them today and they knew it was me right away, after I told them what I was asking. She quoted me a "ballpark" $3500 for the mTESE. I was surprised since the price of two TESAs would be $3000. But, I don't think DH will go for it.

I asked her what to do about my unanswered questions about the urologist. She wanted to pass me off to the nurse, but I told her the nurse had already talked to me and said he should have explained those things. I told her I needed risk/recovery times to help consider what we want and I told her we had other questions. I suddenly feel really nervous asking again for medication for testosterone. He didn't check his prostate and I worry about his prostate being enlarged. I don't want him throwing meds at him without checking that since it can become enlarged. I have some of the stuff written down at my work, but am going to throw it in my purse, just in case he calls my cell when I am not at work. I can't be caught off guard.

Suddenly I am really wishing he would do the mTESE. I have to watch myself, I am not wanting to push him. 

Argh!!!!


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## raelynn

CanadianMaple - Why is it that your hubby is so against the TESE? Has he given you reasons?


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## Stinas

Hi ladies!!
Just got back from our u/s apt! We do have some answers. I think it went well. It is a blockage. He has a cyst in his prostate that he was most likely born with. Doc said it looks like thats the main issue here, BUT we will be doing a biopsy to make sure sperm is being made before we make a decision on surgery. Doc said he can go in through the tip of the penis and "scrape" out around the cyst to make room for the sperm to go through. There are risks with this surgery, less than 1%, but still...enough to make you think twice. Risks are leakage/trouble peeing, trouble pooping, and ball pain. Sorry about all the non technical terms, but we got a lot of info and I could never remember those crazy words. 
The next step is for me to set up myself as a patient at the fertility clinic and get a regular workup, so the urologist can do the biopsy there and then freeze sperm if found. This can happen within the next month or so. We need to work around DH work schedule since its busy time for him and recovery is 5-7 days doc said. 
As of right now DH does not really want to do surgery. I dont blame him, i am also leaning towards not doing it and moving on to IVF. I guess we will have a better sense of direction once we see what the biopsy results are. Besides that all his testings are all regular...even the genetic tests. 
Im happy that the ball is rolling. I already called the fertility clinic and am waiting for a call back. Once I set that up, the doc will be calling the doctor I will be going to directly to explain our situation. He said once you have an apt we might be able to go in and do biopsy before they see you since our situation is slightly different than the "normal". 
Just glad its moving along.


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## cosita

Hi girls, 
Just thought I'd share this with you. An article I read today. 
There is always hope https://www.independent.ie/lifestyl...as-given-me-a-chance-to-be-a-dad-3120105.html
This one is interesting too: https://www.independent.ie/lifestyl...-men-opened-up-about-infertility-3120014.html
You can listen to the couple on a radio show on a podcast that you can download on you pc
https://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_thejohnmurrayshow.xml
Meanwhile, my copy of Helping the Stork arrived today so I'm heading to bed to start reading it. Reluctantly, but hopefully. 
Sleep well girls.


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## Mercury1

Canadianmaple - so sorry you're having all these difficult decisions :hugs: it sounds like you don't know which way to turn to get advice you can trust. I really feel for you.

Stinas - yay for getting the ball rolling!! :happydance:

Tigerlily - hope your appt went well [-o&lt;

AFM - still dealing with the news from last week that we need mTESE. OH is really struggling. It seems to be getting better rather than worse which is something. He's also trying to sort out a career change so it's loads of pressure all at once. But veering between anger and sadness about it all :nope:


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- I'm glad you got some answers today. My husband is also nervous about any surgery and would do anything to avoid it. Since they think it's a blockage, they must be pretty confident that he will have sperm. Your ball is rolling!

Thank you Mercury. It's really difficult. I really wished someone at the clinic would have talked with us and gave us all of the facts/details while we were there. We were a bit shell shocked and it would have helped to have had someone talk with us after or for them to send home something with info to read. It's so frustrating seeing that most of you are getting better care than us. We have felt like we're been left to navigate/research this on our own.

raelynn- DH was in a serious car accident in Sept 1998. His car was hit by a drunk driver. He had a fractured back (L3 and L4) and they found out about 4 days later that they had missed a perforated bowel. He spent 18 days in a coma because of septic shock and had an ostomy for 6 months. It took him a few years to get back to normal. He has had so much surgery/pain/medical tests in his life, the thought of more makes him feel sick to his stomach. My family doctor told me that would likely be the case for him when I talked to him last December. People who have been through trauma like him often avoid quasi-elective surgery but would get a radical surgery to save their live. It makes sense but it's so hard. I didn't know him back then, but after reading his medical docs (I used to be an RN), it gives me a reality check for those days I feel frustrated about his hesitation/refusal. The urologist told us we would never know why he has azoospermia or low T, but it could have been damage from the septicemia he had.


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## wibble wobble

Hi everyone just wanted to let you all know I'm thinking of you all. I've been lurking just haven't really had the time to write a catch up post. 

There seems to have been a lot of bad news recently so sending you all huge HUGS....

I'll have to try much harder to write reply's I feel like I'm not really being supportive to you all and for that I'm really sorry


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## raelynn

CanadianMaple - That makes complete sense. I can imagine after going through trauma like that it would make someone very hesitant to want to go through any type of operation again.

My hubby hasn't ever had any type of serious surgery and had a very quick recovery from the last TESE and even he said if we end up having to do it a second time he will seriously start considering a donor if it doesn't work. So even in the best conditions it isn't something that is taken lightly. I hope things get worked out for you soon so you know what your next step is. It really sucks that this isn't easy for any of us.


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## CanadianMaple

Raelynn- I'm trying to remember, did they get a lot from him to freeze with the TESE? Did he have NOA?


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## raelynn

He has NOA. They didn't give us any numbers but told us they found "some" in 3 out of the 5 samples taken during the TESE. The urologist was originally going to take 6 samples but saw sperm in the first sample he took so he took 3 samples from that side and 2 from the other.


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## Stinas

cm - Thank you! Yeah, it feels nice to get the ball rolling. OMG I cant believe your DH went through all of that! Thank god he is still alive! Thats just crazy!


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## Deb111

WW - no need to apologise - hope you're doing ok

CM - how horrific for your dh. I understand his hesitance. I really hope you guys can get a solution sorted that you're both comfortable with.

Stinas - good news that you're starting to get some answers

Tiger - hoping to hear some good news from you

xx


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## Step Mummy

I know I have been MIA over the last couple of weeks during my TWW. But I thought I would share my update, the old witch got me last night. I am really annoyed with myself for letting myself convince myself that maybe i was PG, you'd think after 3 years of experience I would know better. But I was convinced I felt different, but maybe that was down to this sudden heat wave we have had over the last week or so, (if you live in England you will know that the weather just increased from 10' to 27' in just four days, so it has been really hot)!

Anyway I rang the hospital to organise my next lot of drugs ready for day 3 injections, but I think they want to meet with me first for a review as we have now done 4 goes, but I hope not, because she said there aren't any free appts within the next few days. and I can tell you I am not wanting to wait and miss out another month again so they better sort something out!

Oh well, on we go with this never ending nightmare!!! 

Looking on the bright side, as my DH just said to me, it was probably a good thing I was not PG because someone hit our beautiful new car this morning, and I was crying and in shock, he said it was probably gods plan because the stress might have caused me to MC (although I am sure it would take a bit more than that).

I think a large glass of cold white wine, whilst sat in the sun this evening, is in order - I deserve it!!!!


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## Deb111

StepMummy - I'm so sorry this cycle hasn't worked out for you and hope that the clinic can fit you in for an appt asap xx


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## wibble wobble

Step Mummy sorry this cycle hasn't worked out, hope you can get your meds sorted without going for a review.

Canadian hope you and your hubby can come to some sort of agreement over how to go about treatment. I can understand why he doesn't want to go for surgery after everything he has been through, but on the other hand I can't see why he's willing to go for a pesa but not the mtese when the latter surely has a higher success rates for men with NOA. I thought the pesa/tesa was just recommended for obstructive azoo.


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## snd80

Sorry to hear that StepMom.... :hugs:

I'll catch up on everyone else in a minute.

AFM- No go this month. :cry: My good side isn't producing, and the bad side only had one tiny little bitty folly on it. :shrug: And my cycle is ALL screwed up! Today is _suppost_ to be CD15 and I had a + ov test this morning; one day ahead of time. So who knows! Got a call into Jackson to see if upping the Clomid will help. Seems like I may have become immune to the current dose? I swear IDK! :nope:


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## tigerlily1975

StepMummy, I'm so sorry, hun :hugs: After all you've been through lately you definitely deserve that glass of wine, a large one! I hope you get your appointment through very, very soon.

:hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

SND, big, BIG :hugs: :hugs: are winging their way across 'the Pond' to you.

C xx


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## SunUp

Sorry SND, how frustrating :(


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## wibble wobble

Snd sorry your body isn't playing the game with you this month. Hope you can sort the right dose of clomid in time for next month when the good side is working


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## tigerlily1975

Hi everyone :hi:

Thanks for all the messages. I hope you're all hanging in there.

We got through our IVF/ICSI appointment.. just. It was really hot and stuffy in the room and when our nurse started going into details of the cycle, I went all woozy. I'm such a wuss. How am I going to manage when I have to actually start the treatments??! 

They wanted us to start as soon as possible, but we calculated that DH would be away on a conference around ER and ET, so we're going to wait until July. It's all beginning to feel very real and scarey now!

We asked after DH's results, but all the nurse could tell us was that they had 4 amps frozen, but he did give me the number for the embyologist. After speaking to them, it turns out that 2 amps had nothing, one amp had some immotile sperm and the other had one that was 'twitching'. When they say 'one' they basically test a minute amount of tissue, if they see something they assume they'll be more there (crosses fingers, toes, arms and legs). She asked if anyone had mentioned DS to us, but er, no-one has, even though I asked yesterday... :shrug: She also added that they'll have to thaw both samples, but that's understandable. As with this entire journey, it's just a case of hoping for the best, isn't it?

Big :hugs: :hugs: to all of you, 

C xx


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## Deb111

Snd - so sorry to hear that. Fingers crossed for your next cycle :hugs:

Tiger - it's so frustrating when you don't get proper answers to your questions. I know it's scary, but also exciting tht you will be starting July :thumbup:


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## SunUp

Yes Tiger, July is right around the corner!

AFM, AF showed today! DIUI #2 Cycle begins :wohoo: (fingers crossed there are no complications), I have my first scan Friday, CD3 and start 75mg Clomid then as long as everything looks good. Hopeful for IUI to be CD 14ish, as last time I triggered CD 15 but they said I had already started to ovulate - hopefully this time I will trigger and B2B IUI will be timed PERFECTLY!


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## Deb111

So sorry SunUp :hugs: Everything crossed for your next cycle xx


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## wibble wobble

Good Luck with diui 2 Sunup


I'm day 6 now of down regging, haven't had any major side effects yet but it's early days yet another 2 weeks of buserelin jabs to go so it could all change


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## Stinas

snd & Step Mummy - Hugs to you both!!!

Tiger - July! wow...right around the corner!!!

Sunup - sorry AF showed! fx DIUI#2 !

wibble wobble - Thats good that you havent had much side effects!!! I hope it stays that way!

As for me.....I have my first apt at the fertility clinic next thursday!!! AF should be here any minute...but with my luck she wont. Hopefully DH can schedule his biopsy ASAP. It sucks that its busy season for him at work right now...or else we could do it back to back. grrr!


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## MoBaby

minor set back... okay its a huge set back....i need a myomectomy and hysteroscopybefore we can continue :( little fibroid now is a monster and probable polyp. im devastated. set back until fall now :( sigh. good news all my labs were good. amh, fsh, lh, estradiol afc. i had a mri today and no wonder i cant hold my pee in! my fibroid takes up a lot of space in there. boo.


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## Stinas

MoBaby - Im sorry! I hope everything goes well and your back on track asap!


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Boo Mo... That just sucks. :hugs: At least you'll be all good to go once this is all past.


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## MoBaby

ok so scheduled surgery for june 11th..eek! nervous..never had surgery down there before!


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## wibble wobble

MoBaby said:


> minor set back... okay its a huge set back....i need a myomectomy and hysteroscopybefore we can continue :( little fibroid now is a monster and probable polyp. im devastated. set back until fall now :( sigh. good news all my labs were good. amh, fsh, lh, estradiol afc. i had a mri today and no wonder i cant hold my pee in! my fibroid takes up a lot of space in there. boo.

So sorry you've been held back sending you a huge :hugs:


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## MrsC8776

Hi ladies,

I know I haven't posted in here much but I just wanted to share our update. We are moving on to DIUI with clomid rather than IVF. I'm thinking the IUI will be towards the end of June. We are hoping for the best! Is there any others in this thread going with DIUI? :flower:


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## MoBaby

hey mrsc! good to see you here


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## MrsC8776

MoBaby said:


> hey mrsc! good to see you here

You too! I was just reading the previous page and saw that you were in this thread as well. I really hope your surgery goes well. :)


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## Stinas

MrsC - snd is doing DIUI and a couple others as well...but for some reason she is the only one I can remember off the top of my head.


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## tigerlily1975

MrsC: hello again. Quite a few ladies on here are doing DIUI and if you roll back through the thread, there's been a lot of success stories - most recently Pink Lolly who is now 12 weeks along after here 2nd DIUI. Good luck!

MoBaby: I'm so sorry to hear you need surgery :hugs: 

A big :hi: to everyone else. We've a lovely long weekend off here in the UK.. so nice of the government to treat the nation to two bank holidays for my Birthday! :haha: Ah, one more year closer to 40 and still no baby. Wherever you are, don't work too hard today and have a drink on me this weekend! :drunk: :wine:

:hugs:

C xx


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## cosita

Hey there Mrs C, SunUp is doing DIUI and has her own journal. Its on the cards for us too but not planning for a few months yet.


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## snd80

MrsC8776 said:


> Hi ladies,
> 
> I know I haven't posted in here much but I just wanted to share our update. We are moving on to DIUI with clomid rather than IVF. I'm thinking the IUI will be towards the end of June. We are hoping for the best! Is there any others in this thread going with DIUI? :flower:

Hi MrsC! I am doing DIUI, Sun is doing DIUI, and Pink Lolly got her :bfp: on her 2nd DIUI, and there are a few others thinking of moving on to DIUI. For us, it was the cheapest and most feasable option in our situation. We are having to wait til next month to try our 2nd time, as my good side wasn't producing this week. Hopefully it will be either June 30 or July 1. Fingers and eyes crossed! LOL!

Any questions about anything, I will be glad to answer for you!!!! Good luck!!! :flower:


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## rdleela

tigerlily1975 said:


> A big :hi: to everyone else. We've a lovely long weekend off here in the UK.. so nice of the government to treat the nation to two bank holidays for my Birthday! :haha: Ah, one more year closer to 40 and still no baby. Wherever you are, don't work too hard today and have a drink on me this weekend! :drunk: :wine:

Happy birthday! Mine was yesterday, 33rd, and I just wanted to hide under a rock. Not feeling very "celebraty" at the moment...I hope you have a better day than I did!


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## Deb111

Happy birthday Rdleela and Tiger :cake: :cake: and just remember - you're not a year older, only a day - one day you're 32 and 364 days, the next day you're just 32 and 365 days :winkwink:

Silverbell is doing DIUI too MrsC - glad to see things are moving on for you :thumbup:


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## WANBMUM

Hi mrs c. We are also doing DIUI :) Having our first in approx 10 days time, all going well. We are doing unmedicated as I have no problems ovulating and I over stimulated on clomid last month. 
Have you picked your donor and all? I think that was the hardest part for us, once we had that completed we could look to the future and get exccciitteed! 
Any questions shout :)
Best of luck.


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## MrsC8776

Thank you so much ladies! :flower: It's nice to know I'm not alone in all this. I have been talking to a few others who are going this route. I wasn't sure who all was doing it in this thread. Snd I'm thinking my IUI will be at the end of June as well. I just have to wait for CD1 and then call in to get clomid. That should be about the 17th of June. WANBMUM we have picked out the donor. I had hubby pick so that he could be involved. We had to pick before he leaves since he will be gone for 6 weeks. He works in Afghanistan and leaves on the 3rd. 

tigerlilly and rdleela happy birthday! Mine is tomorrow. I hope you ladies had/have wonderful birthdays. Deb is right, we are just one day older. :winkwink:


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## snd80

Deb111 said:


> Silverbell is doing DIUI too MrsC - glad to see things are moving on for you :thumbup:

:dohh: How could I forget SB!!!!! Guess cause she never visits the azoo thread much anymore! Hope she is well... I try to keep up with her journal when I can.


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## snd80

Happy birthday RD and Tiger!!!! :cake: Age is just a #... look at it like that!!!! It is all in how you feel!!! 


Sun- Here is how I have treated myself... I go get it tomorrow!!!! Guess it will be my baby til the real one gets here!
 



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## Deb111

snd80 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Silverbell is doing DIUI too MrsC - glad to see things are moving on for you :thumbup:
> 
> :dohh: How could I forget SB!!!!! Guess cause she never visits the azoo thread much anymore! Hope she is well... I try to keep up with her journal when I can.Click to expand...

She's pretty quiet in her journal ATM too - I think they're just taking a bit of time out after her abandoned 3rd DIUI.

MrsC - Happy birthday for tomorrow :cake:


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## snd80

Yay WANB!!!!! So glad they got you under control!!!! Fingers and eyes crossed for ya my buddy!!!! :flower:


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## snd80

MrsC-looks like we will be right there together, as I am due to start June 14th. (That is IF my good tube plays nice this time!!! :growlmad:) And I might have asked you this before, but what part of OR are you from? My mother lives in Hood River, right outside Portland. What sperm bank did you guys use?

And a Happy Birthday to you tomorrow!!!! :cake: I'd sing to you all if we weren't online! :haha:


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## Stinas

Tiger - HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

Rdleela - HAPPY BIRTHDAY again!!!

MrsC - Happy Birthday tom! I knew there was a good amount of ladies doing DIUI...my mind was just drawing blanks.

SND - ooooooooo Veryyy prettyyyy!!!!!! Enjoy it!! 

WANBMUM - Good luck in 10 days!!!!!!! ...every time I see your avatar it cracks me up...reminds me of the way my doggie used to be!


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## deafgal01

Mrs, Tiger, and RD- happy birthday ladies! Hope you're having a good birthday. I agree with Deb. You're just another year WISER- not older. :thumbup:


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## MJ73

Wow, I'm off for a fewday & SO much happens:flower:

Happy birthday to everyone who is having birthdays. I'm with SND, sending you a virtual Happy Birthday song :serenade:(although with my singing skills you're lucky it's just virtual:wacko:) and MASSIVE, warm, snuggly birthday hugs :hugs: & some cake too:cake: Birthdays can be hard for us LTTTC, but just know that all your azoo buddies are surrounding you with love & like Deb said you're definitely another year wiser... That makes me very wise indeed:winkwink:

Mrs C, I know it's a bitter sweet time :hugs: but isn't it lovely to know that you're not alone in moving onto DS? There are such a great supportive group of girls here. It must feel great to be doing something so soon.

SND, I'm sorry hun that your good side wasn't playing ball :ball: this cycle, keeping everything crossed for your next cycle. Look at your new baby...Nice! Jealous much!

WanBmum, thinking about you & sending you loads of :dust: for your 1st cycle; not long now.

Mo, so sorry about the surgery hun, make sure DH spoils you rotten afterwards.

Tiger, ooh things are getting exciting hun. I know that I was so nervous about the injections, but at the time, just said to myself (literally-out loud:wacko:) "How much will you go through to get a baby?" Of course the answer was 'anything'... Honestly, the 1st one was the worst, after that I would just take a deep breath & jab myself. You are such a strong:bodyb:, beautiful woman & I know that you will get through this next challenge :hugs:

Sun, so sorry the last cycle wasn't your cycle & glad that you enjoyed your little :wine: drinkypoo. I think it is amazing, the resiliance of women on this thread. I love that you're already looking forward to the hotel stay & are facing this next cycle with optimism & hope. Much :dust: your way.

WW, loads of :dust: for you gorgeous girl with this cycle. Glad you're not experiencing any nasty side effects yet. FX, it stays that way & you have a breezy cycle.

Stinas, not long now till that appt. Keeping everything crossed for DH's biopsy:thumbup: These things always seem to fall when we are busy at work :dohh:

Step Mummy, so sorry that this cycle didn't work out :hugs:. I'm glad that you are ok after your car accident. I'm hoping that you can go ahead with your next cycle as you want to do, without having to go through the bureaucratic nightmare of more appointments; you guys have been through enough.

CM, it sounds like your DH has been through so much, I can't blame him for being reticent about surgery. Like everyone else, I hope that you can reach a resolution that meets both your needs & makes both of you happy in the long run. In the mean time, know that you are surrounded by caring & love here :hugs:

Everyone else, a big hello :flower: & lots of :hugs: xx

AFM, well, we have decided to go ahead & use our last frozen emby _this_ cycle. Like now! I was at CD8 when we saw the FS & decided to go ahead. We do unmedicated cycles for frozen so no meds, just U/S & BTs. Had our 1st yesterday & everything seems to be on track. I estimate our transfer will be around Monday the 11th, assuming Ov happens according to plan. This could be our last chance to have DH's bio child, so everyone's FXing, babydust, anti-AF & ninjas are so appreciated & welcome. 

I've said it before & I'll say it again, I just couldn't get through all this without my azoo girls. So thankyou :flower:


----------



## Stinas

MJ - Thank you!! Of course it always happens when we are busy...Thank god its a family business and we can bend the rules a bit. I wish you all the luck in the world and you will be in my thoughts and prayers!!! FX this is your cycle!! You deserve it!!!!!


----------



## MoBaby

Mj: how exciting!! Everything crossed tightly for your bfp! Not too far away for fet!


----------



## deafgal01

MJ- :dust: :dust: :dust:

:dust: for all the ladies out there trying this cycle (with fet, ivf, any other methods). :dust:

2 weeks til my DH's getting his SA. :shock: I can't believe it's around the corner.


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## SunUp

:dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust:
:dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust:
:dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust:

I think a lot of us Azoo Girls could use some dust! 
And fingers crossed for some June/July/August BFPs!!


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## snd80

MJ! So excited for you!!!!! Here's your :dust:, :af:, and :ninja: as requested!!!!! And think about using some digital smily face OPKs! They are worth it!!! Fingers and eyes crossed for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Pink Lolly

Oh my gosh there is so much happening in here! Sending everyone a massive :hug: and lots of :dust: for everyone still trying for their precious babies :dust: xxx


----------



## Pink Lolly

MrsC8776 said:


> Hi ladies,
> 
> I know I haven't posted in here much but I just wanted to share our update. We are moving on to DIUI with clomid rather than IVF. I'm thinking the IUI will be towards the end of June. We are hoping for the best! Is there any others in this thread going with DIUI? :flower:


Hi Mrs C - We have met before and as you know I conceived through DIUI. If you have any questions pop into my journal or pm me x


----------



## MrsC8776

Thanks again ladies! It's nice to know I'm not alone on this new journey. :hugs:

MJ~ I'm so excited for you! I have everything crossed that this works. 

:dust::dust::dust:

PinkLolly~ Thank you! I'm so glad things are going well for you.


----------



## wibble wobble

MJ73 said:


> AFM, well, we have decided to go ahead & use our last frozen emby _this_ cycle. Like now! I was at CD8 when we saw the FS & decided to go ahead. We do unmedicated cycles for frozen so no meds, just U/S & BTs. Had our 1st yesterday & everything seems to be on track. I estimate our transfer will be around Monday the 11th, assuming Ov happens according to plan. This could be our last chance to have DH's bio child, so everyone's FXing, babydust, anti-AF & ninjas are so appreciated & welcome.
> 
> I've said it before & I'll say it again, I just couldn't get through all this without my azoo girls. So thankyou :flower:

Wow wasn't expecting this :happydance: wishing you loads of luck for your last frostie :hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

snd80 said:


> Yay WANB!!!!! So glad they got you under control!!!! Fingers and eyes crossed for ya my buddy!!!! :flower:

Thanks lovie, I know, I hope they have now, I go in again next week to see when I am good to go - fingers crossed. 
Sorry to hear this month is a no go for you :( If there is one thing I have learned from our cancelled cycle, it is that the time FLIES by, i know it seems like ages away for the next month, but it does go quickly. So before you know it, you will be back on track. :)


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## WANBMUM

MJ - I am so excited for you! That is amazing news for the both of you. 
Your so cute with your detailed post including everyone, so thoughtful of you :)
You and me are really close in dates I think, depending on ov, we could be getting DIUI around the same time as you, so we might be TWW buddies and PLEASE GOD - bump buddies :)


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## rdleela

Hey, lovely ladies! Thanks for all the b-day wishes! I haven't posted any details in a while, just been going through one of those "bottom of the roller coaster" times and starting back on the upswing now...

I have been reading a lot on infertility, as I find that it really soothes me. We're not going through a fertility clinic, and we're in a small, rural area, so there are no therapists that deal with infertility, so I'm finding my best resources are books and some websites, and I thought I would share a few of them I really liked here for you ladies and some future ladies who will read this thread!

Something to give your family to read (I cried when I read this one, I think it applies to my family): https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/when-infertility-strikes.html

Infertility Etiquette, for everyone to read! https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/infertility-etiquette.html

BOOK: When You're Not Expecting: An Infertility Survival Guide by Constance Hoenk Shapiro

And her blog at Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/when-youre-not-expecting

I also found a book for WHEN I get pregnant (FX'd, lol) because for some reason I just don't think it will be the same for me as it was for all my friends: Precious Babies: Pregnancy, birth and parenting after infertility by Kate Brian. I have only read the introductions and don't plan on reading much more than that until my DH actually goes for his surgery.

I hope someone finds some of those items helpful!

I have been keeping up-to-date on the posts, and I hope everyone is doing well right now and best wishes to you all!

AFM, DH had transrectal u/s last Wednesday, and we're just waiting for the report with results, should have that tomorrow, I would hope. Then we'll talk to our surgeon this week, and see which surgery DH will have to have, and then hopefully work on booking the surgery, I'm estimating end of August at the latest.


----------



## SunUp

Wanbe what cd are you on today?


----------



## WANBMUM

SunUp said:


> Wanbe what cd are you on today?

Hi sunup. I'm cd 6, are you about the same? :)


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## WANBMUM

Rdleeda, thanks for your post. I didn't know there was such a book for baby after infertility. 
Ps. Good luck with the results tomorrow


----------



## SunUp

Yes wanbe! I'm cd5 today!


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## MJ73

Thanks so much girls.:hugs:

Sun & Wanbmum, I'm on CD13 & todays BT shows that ovulation is getting close, so not sure if we'll 2wwing together or not. But Damn FX that we'll all be bump buddies :flower:


----------



## SunUp

Yay MJ its almost time!


----------



## rdleela

Hey, everyone, just got our results from the transrectal ultrasound my DH did last week. Completely clear, no blockage found up in the prostate area.

Which means he has a blockage down in the ball area, which means he'll be having the vasoepididymostomy surgery, which is the same surgery some men have for a vasectomy reversal, and it's the surgery which yields the best results post-vasectomy. From what I've read, good chance the hernia surgery DH had as a newborn could have caused the scarring which is causing the blockage.

So now we just have to talk to the surgeon to confirm all of this, and get the surgery date booked! FX'd surgeons are taking holidays this summer and there is lots of free operating room time available! :)


----------



## MoBaby

rdleela: thats great news! hope they can fix and so you can get bfp!!


----------



## rdleela

Thanks, MoBaby!

We did our phone consultation with our surgeon today, and confirmed the only option for surgery my DH has is the vasoepididymostomy (VE). Surgeon cannot guarantee the surgery will be successful, of course, and he should be able to give us a reason as to why the blockage formed once he's gone in and tested while (hopefully) performing the surgery.

We are applying to Alberta Health Care to cover the surgery in B.C., which should go through, but if it doesn't, we've decided to pay out-of-pocket for the surgery, which he gave us a price of $6000 Cdn. I gave him a $500 deposit today so that he could book our surgery date, and we'll find out about AB Health Care in a few weeks!

DH will not be able to ejaculate at all for one month after the surgery; after one month, we can start TTC! He'll do an SA 2 months after the surgery to confirm whether there are sperm present, and then another one 4 months post-op, which should be his more long-range sperm count.

Can't wait to come back and post our booked surgery date!

Been quiet on here, hope everyone is doing great, looking forward to some updates!


----------



## MrsC8776

rdleela~ I think it's great that you guys are moving forward and got the surgery booked in. I think with surgery there is always a chance that it doesn't fix everything but we just have to take that chance when we can. Hopefully the health care will come through so that you won't be $6,000 out of pocket. I'm excited for you and looking forward to hearing when the surgery is booked for. I bet you guys are excited!


----------



## MJ73

rdleela, great news about the surgery. I too hope that insurance can help out, as that is a lot of $$ out of pocket for you guys. Keeping everything crossed that this surgery does the trick & that you guys can go on to TTC naturally:hugs:

MrsC, where are you guys up to? It seemed that things were moving quite quickly for you :hugs:

Hope everyone else is going well, sending loads of :dust: to everyone.

Well, I have been flat-out working & going to blood tests & ultrasounds, but the BT yesterday showed the surge in estrogen that they look for to signal ovulation! So, our embryo transfer is scheduled for Sunday :happydance::happydance::happydance:. I am so excited that we get the chance to try again. I'm sending lots of happy, defrosting vibes out to our little emby & cannot wait to meet it on sunday. hope it loves my uterus so much that it decides to stay there for about 39 weeks!!! Pleas little emby, be a sticky one! xx


----------



## MrsC8776

MJ73 said:


> rdleela, great news about the surgery. I too hope that insurance can help out, as that is a lot of $$ out of pocket for you guys. Keeping everything crossed that this surgery does the trick & that you guys can go on to TTC naturally:hugs:
> 
> MrsC, where are you guys up to? It seemed that things were moving quite quickly for you :hugs:
> 
> Hope everyone else is going well, sending loads of :dust: to everyone.
> 
> Well, I have been flat-out working & going to blood tests & ultrasounds, but the BT yesterday showed the surge in estrogen that they look for to signal ovulation! So, our embryo transfer is scheduled for Sunday :happydance::happydance::happydance:. I am so excited that we get the chance to try again. I'm sending lots of happy, defrosting vibes out to our little emby & cannot wait to meet it on sunday. hope it loves my uterus so much that it decides to stay there for about 39 weeks!!! Pleas little emby, be a sticky one! xx

Right now I'm on CD 14 and waiting for AF so that I can start clomid. After that we are on to DIUI#1! :happydance: We are very excited. It's going to be weird with hubby gone but it is what it is. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about the clomid? 

Sounds like you have been busy! Sunday will be here so soon :happydance: I'm so excited for you guys!!


----------



## Stinas

MJ & MRSC - I wish you both all the best of luck!!!!! Busy week for you both!!! EXCITING!!!!!!!!!

rdleela - :happydance:

Hope everyone else is doing good!!!

As for me...thursday I go see the fertility center! Time to get the ball rolling!


----------



## raelynn

rdleela - That is great news! Hope everything works our great for you!

MJ - Hope its a sticky emby!! Good luck!

MrsC - So glad things will get going for you soon. That is so exciting!

Stinas - Yay for getting started! I'm sure the wait has seemed so long!


As for me, Hubby and I have been taking turns playing phone tag and talking with the fertility center to get our schedule today. Originally, our nurse wrote us up for July 17 but that is right before our vacation and hubby wants a little recovery time if he ends up having to do another TESE. So, I spoke with our nurse and asked if there was any way we could get things going to have ER sometime in the first week of July and she thinks we can make it work. She has to wait to get approval from the fertility center higher ups and our urologist so I'm awaiting the email of our official schedule. I have to call in sometime tomorrow to get my mock transfer scheduled and figure out if we have any coverage for the injections or if they need to be through a certain pharmacy. I'm so excited we may actually be able to get everything in this cycle instead of waiting until August! Keeping my fingers crossed that we get these new dates approved


----------



## Stinas

raelynn - Good luck!!! I hope they can get you in earlier!! That would be great!!!! I feel like you have to hound these people in order to get what you want!


----------



## MrsC8776

Stinas said:


> MJ & MRSC - I wish you both all the best of luck!!!!! Busy week for you both!!! EXCITING!!!!!!!!!
> 
> rdleela - :happydance:
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing good!!!
> 
> As for me...thursday I go see the fertility center! Time to get the ball rolling!

Thank you, I still have a little bit of waiting but it will go quickly. Fx for you on Thursday! 



raelynn said:


> rdleela - That is great news! Hope everything works our great for you!
> 
> MJ - Hope its a sticky emby!! Good luck!
> 
> MrsC - So glad things will get going for you soon. That is so exciting!
> 
> Stinas - Yay for getting started! I'm sure the wait has seemed so long!
> 
> 
> As for me, Hubby and I have been taking turns playing phone tag and talking with the fertility center to get our schedule today. Originally, our nurse wrote us up for July 17 but that is right before our vacation and hubby wants a little recovery time if he ends up having to do another TESE. So, I spoke with our nurse and asked if there was any way we could get things going to have ER sometime in the first week of July and she thinks we can make it work. She has to wait to get approval from the fertility center higher ups and our urologist so I'm awaiting the email of our official schedule. I have to call in sometime tomorrow to get my mock transfer scheduled and figure out if we have any coverage for the injections or if they need to be through a certain pharmacy. I'm so excited we may actually be able to get everything in this cycle instead of waiting until August! Keeping my fingers crossed that we get these new dates approved

That would be so great if they could get you in a little sooner. Fx your hubby won't need another TESE. I hope you hear from them soon!


----------



## raelynn

Stinas said:


> raelynn - Good luck!!! I hope they can get you in earlier!! That would be great!!!! I feel like you have to hound these people in order to get what you want!

Luckily our nurse was really understanding. She was trying to schedule us out so we had a little breathing room in our schedule but when I told her I really wanted to try and make this cycle work she was all for it. Sometimes you just have to let them know exactly what you want though otherwise they have to go off of assumptions. I'm glad I asked!



MrsC8776 said:


> That would be so great if they could get you in a little sooner. Fx your hubby won't need another TESE. I hope you hear from them soon!

Thanks! I really hope we can just use our frozen samples too because there is no guarantee that another TESE would even have the same results. Hopefully we get lucky a second time if we need to though!


----------



## SunUp

MrsC8776 said:


> Right now I'm on CD 14 and waiting for AF so that I can start clomid. After that we are on to DIUI#1! :happydance: We are very excited. It's going to be weird with hubby gone but it is what it is. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about the clomid?
> 
> Sounds like you have been busy! Sunday will be here so soon :happydance: I'm so excited for you guys!!


So - I am on DIUI #2 this month, took Clomid 50mg round 1 and now 75mg round 2. I take them at the same time every day. My RE wants it anytime between 6pm and 11pm. I take it about 630 each day. It can cause headaches and night sweats but nothing too crazy for me at least. IUI is pretty simple, the procedure is usually faster than a pap smear. I have back to back IUI's done by my FS... and then beta 15 days after the second one.


----------



## MrsC8776

SunUp said:


> MrsC8776 said:
> 
> 
> Right now I'm on CD 14 and waiting for AF so that I can start clomid. After that we are on to DIUI#1! :happydance: We are very excited. It's going to be weird with hubby gone but it is what it is. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about the clomid?
> 
> Sounds like you have been busy! Sunday will be here so soon :happydance: I'm so excited for you guys!!
> 
> 
> So - I am on DIUI #2 this month, took Clomid 50mg round 1 and now 75mg round 2. I take them at the same time every day. My RE wants it anytime between 6pm and 11pm. I take it about 630 each day. It can cause headaches and night sweats but nothing too crazy for me at least. IUI is pretty simple, the procedure is usually faster than a pap smear. I have back to back IUI's done by my FS... and then beta 15 days after the second one.Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing that info with me. I will have to check on the time he wants me to take it.


----------



## Deb111

Great news that a lot of you are moving on with things right now - we're due for some more :bfp:s in here!! Wishing you all, all the luck on the world xx


----------



## esuzanne

Hi ladies! After weeks of processing our news, I am here to join all of you and hope to find some support as well as advice! 

After 2 SA we were told my DH had a zero count. Tomorrow we have an appointment with a urologist. Any advice on what we should ask or find out? I have spent hours and hours researching online and it is all so overwhelming! I figure who better to ask than people who have been in exactly the same place! I look forward to getting to know you and build friendships unlike any other!

:hug:


----------



## Deb111

Hi esuzanne,

There's a list of some things you might want to ask / check with the urologist in a spoiler on the front page of the thread.

Good luck tomorrow - I hope you get some answers. Make sure you write down your questions before you go and take a pen and paper with you. You think you will remember what the urologist tells you but in reality - you don't xx


----------



## snd80

Ahhhh! SO much progress on here! I feel left out! :cry: :haha:

MJ- Best wishes honey!!!! I really hope this one sticks! Go in there with the mind set that by the end of this month you *WILL* be pg!!!!! :dust:

MrsC- Best wishes to you too chick!!!! Hope this is the one and only time you have this done!!! :dust:

Sun- Same to you my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dust: And I take mine at 6:30 every night too, so I can bypass the side effects while sleeping. Great minds think alike! :thumbup:

Wouldn't it be great if half of the azoo girls were pg by the end of this month!!!! A true BLESSING!!!!! _Hopefully_ I won't be far behind you guys! :thumbup:

AFM- My clinic said they wanted to continue just like before and won't up the clomid since it was only one "bad" month and the follie was a mature one, but only just one follie is what worries me!!! BOOOOO!!! I would just like to be better safe than sorry since I only have 2 vials left! When AF shows, I will call and ask them ONE MORE TIME!!! At least upping it to 75mg wouldn't hurt like they did Sun??? The girl I talked to wasn't my "regular" one, and I had to get snappy with her the first call. Then she called back all nice and sh*t with this report. I just don't like change (in people that is) and will refuse talking to her again. :nope: I got my new car, so I have a reliable way to go! Now it is just a waiting game for AF to rear her ugly head, hopefully for the last time this year!!!! [-o&lt;

Deb- When do we find out if we have a niece or nephew?????? I am dying to know!!!!

:hugs: to anyone else I missed!


----------



## Deb111

A week today snd :happydance:

Keeping everything crossed that you can talk them into upping your doseage a bit xx


----------



## Stinas

esuzanne - Im sorry to see you here but glad you found us!!! Deb is right....write things down because you wont remember a thing. When you go to the urologist for the first time your upset and its like information overload. The first page of this thread is a great help. 

SND - I hope they up your dose!!! Fingers crossed!


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi everyone

Deb exciting that you get to find out next week :blue: or :pink: 

Snd don't feel left out :hugs: you'll still get to be a bump buddy :hugs:

Esuzanne sorry you've found yourself as a victim of azoo. you've found a great place for support though everyone here is lovely :hugs:

MJ sending you super sticky vibes for your frostie on sunday

Mrsc and Sunup good luck with the iui :hugs:

Raelynn hope you get everything sorted to start asap

sorry if I've missed anyone thinking of you all

Afm I'm over half way through down regging now, just 7 injections to go before the baseline scan, then hopefully I'll get to start on stims. Side effects haven't been too bad, a couple of days have been rough to get through but it will all be worth it in the end :thumbup:


----------



## Stinas

wibble wobble - Hiii!!! Glad to her things are moving along nicely!!!


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm so far behind in personals. I have been lurking, but have found it hard since it feels like I am the only one not making progress in my journey. My pregnant coworker has a cute little bump and I find it hard to talk with her. It makes me feel bad too. Only 11 more teaching days until summer... But, it makes me really happy to see that so many of you are getting to an exciting stage!

We see the urologist again tomorrow. I'm feeling nervous, I really hope he listens to us and we can walk away with more information and be able to actually make some decisions. I'm trying so hard to find an article about clomid or something and azoospermia but can't find anything worth printing off. :(

MrsC- I've been thinking about you this week. 

snd- I hope you have a great cycle and can convince them to up the clomid or at least explain more to you why they don't want to. I'd be anxious too.

Good luck SunUp! I'm excited for you!

raelynn- So happy everything is moving along for you and your nurse/clinic is so great.

esuzanne- I'm so sorry that you have found yourself here, but you are in good company. So many of these girls have gotten me through tough times. I'm really happy that you get to see a urologist so soon, we had to wait about 5-6 months for our genetic tests to come in before they would let us see ours through the clinic.

wibble wobble- I took so long to post this, I missed your post. I wish you all the best this cycle.


----------



## raelynn

Snd - I agree with you that asking can't hurt. I've been asking a ton lately trying to get the schedule I want. Even if things don't work out in the end, at least you'll have the satisfaction in knowing you tried! That is how I'm looking at it.

Deb - That is so exciting that you get to find out soon!

esuzanne - As the others have said, it is sad to see you here because of the diagnosis but this is a wonderful place for support!

Wibble Wobble - Hoping things continue to go well and you get to stims soon with no major side effects!

Canadian - Sorry you are feeling down. Azoo is such an emotional train wreck! Hopefully you get some answers and a game plan soon.

AFM - Played phone tag with our nurse some more today. Poor hubby works from home and he's been playing messenger service for us. Our original plan of the 1st week of July has some issues because if we run into the 4th for ER our fertility center will be staffed but urologist probably won't be so that causes problems if we need a TESE. Also the beta tests would run into our cruise. Our nurse said if we were vacationing on land it would be ok because we could get the beta done at another hospital but we'll be on a ship so that isn't possible. So I did my begging again and asked if there was any way to push it forward a week (end of June) and again the fertility clinic says that will be fine but our urologist had said they didn't want to do another TESE until July. Our last meeting with the urologist he said he just wanted to wait at least 3 months and June 21 would be the 3 month mark so nurse said she would call them and ask. So more waiting for me. Praying the urologist is agreeable to the new dates. I would love to get started right away but if not at least I know I tried everything!


----------



## MrsC8776

esuzanne~ Good luck tomorrow! Like the other ladies said, I'm sorry you have found yourself in this situation but everyone here is great. I have met so many wonderful ladies here and they are all a great support system. 

snd~ Thank you! I'm the same as you. I don't like change in the people dealing with my care at the clinic. I hope they listen to you and up your dose. Please don't feel left out. When are you thinking your next IUI will be? :hugs:

wibble~ Sounds like things are moving right along. Fx for you! :thumbup:

Canadian~ Fx for you tomorrow! I hope you are able to find something related to whats going on and what you are requesting. I have been thinking about you as well and crossing my fingers that things get better for you. :hugs:

raelynn~ If they could get you guys in a little earlier that would be great! Fx they are able to work something out for you guys. Would you be able to test on the cruise and then get your beta when you get back? Or is the timing to far apart? 

MJ~ Sunday isn't far now! 

Deb~ I look forward to hearing your exciting news in the coming week! 

Nothing new for me to report. I just wanted to make sure I stay up to date with all you girls. :flower:


----------



## raelynn

MrsC - They said they really want to be able to do the betas to make sure everything is ok in the pregnancy. I guess since IVF is so much more involved they really want to monitor everything closely. I don't really get it myself since a natural pregnancy you could not even know the first week if you aren't testing but I guess its their policy.


----------



## deafgal01

Esuzanne- sorry to hear you're in the same boat and joining us, but like everyone's already mentioned. You're in the best place possibly for support. :hugs: Hoping you get some good news today at least. Even if it's not good news, there's various things the dr can do or try to see if they can at least extract sperm from your hubby.

Deb- how exciting! We all can't wait to find out if you're bringing a girl or a boy into this world for us to be his or her azoo aunts!

MJ, MrsC, and SunUP- :dust: Good luck with the frostie and IUI!

Hope everyone is doing alright!

As for me, DH has a SA coming up next week. :wacko: On the 15th so I'm feeling more nervous as that date approaches closer. *Part of me wants to know whether or not they'll find any spermies. Part of me don't want to know if it's 0 again*. :wacko: I can't win can I? I really feel sorry for him if they're looking at surgery next- they have mentioned surgery as the next step if it's still 0. I'm assuming they mean the ones for "unblocking" the blockage happening down there if that's the case. I'm not sure yet. I'll have to get DH to ask questions for me (if he will). At least I'm able to keep myself busy with taking my 2 online classes and going to 1 class in person. I have two full days of workshops to attend as well on Wed and Thurs next week so that'll keep me busy and from thinking too much about poor DH who has to get his SA.

:hugs: to all of you. Hope it's a good day for everyone!


----------



## esuzanne

WOW! Thank you all so very much! :hugs: It is so great to be able to share this with all of you...its something that you can't understand unless you've experienced it! We just told my DHs parents last night. They were so supportive and I feel better having shared it with them! Of course my very best friend knows but I just feel like keeping infertility a secret isn't right, even though its so hard. It seems that admitting it to more and more people, makes it real ya know? But it definitely isnt something to be ashamed of! 

We are off to the Urologist this afternoon and I am about to bust with all of the questions I have haha. My DH is in the military and right now we have plenty of time off to just tackle this and found out what our options are! If they say there is any chance we might find some sperm somewhere, then we are not willing to give up!...I say that now haha ;) 

Thanks again ladies and good luck to you all! I will let you know how our appointment goes! I am trying to follow all of your stories and I hope to learn each one of you quickly!

I feel blessed to have found all of you!! :hug:


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## Stinas

esuzanne - I hope everything works out for you guys today!!! I dont think infertility is something to be ashamed about, but when it comes to keeping it a secret, I think its more because most people dont understand, so it just makes it somewhat easier for you to deal with in your own way. Thats the way I feel at least. Dont get me wrong, you need to tell those who are close to you and you truly trust, just because you need to vent, but its nothing at all to be ashamed of. 
Im glad you found us! Everyones cases are just sooo different that you will learn a lot.

deafgal01 - I hope DH SA shows improvement! Hopefully thats all he needed! FX! 

raelynn - I think the waiting and not knowing while waiting is the worst! I hope the dates work out with your urologist! 

Canadian - How did your urologist visit go>?

As for me....I just got back from the fertility center. I cant believe how nice everyone was, it was such a nice experience, I was not expecting that at all. Everything went super fast and it looks like end of July early Aug we will be starting IVF....IF they find sperm during DH biopsy, which they will know right away. So far we are aiming for that to happen second week of July. I am going to an IVF class on tuesday and wed we sign consent forms. I didnt expect any of this to go so fast, but im excited that its working out. Now all we have to do is pray harder for sperm. Only HUGE downfall to it all is insurance pays pretty much nothing. I dont event think they will cover DH biopsy, but our urologist is trying to see if they can, which is another hold up. DH is going to call them up today to just say dont bother, its not even worth waiting longer, might as well pay the $2k its probably going to cost. All in all the whole IVF + meds will cost around $15K. Crazy, but it is what it is at this point.


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## deafgal01

Stinas- you're on a roll! Hope it pans out the way they plan it and then you get a bfp at end of summer. :dust:


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## snd80

Thanks girls for all your support! I called them this morning and left a msg, and low and behold the SAME girl called me back! I told her no offense, but I wanted to talk to the other lady, to which she asked "can I help you with something?" I told her no, that I felt the other lady knew me and my situation better and I wanted to talk to her. She acted like it made her mad, but OH WELL!!!!! 

And I never did welcome esuzzy!!!!! :dohh: I'm sorry!!! I hope you get some answers this afternoon and good luck! :hugs:

I know when I first joined this thread, I talked about dumping my very best friend when I found out she was pg cause it was too painful to see her and her bump. Well, that has been a year ago and her baby is now 8 months old, but for the past week I have been dreaming of her and her baby. She keeps asking me to make amends and be friends again in my dream. Maybe it is a sign? :shrug:

Hope everyone has a great day! :flower:


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## Deb111

Candian - I'm so sorry I missed your last post - I hope it's not too late, but I found this article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21651602


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## snd80

Thought I'd update: They caved in and upped my clomid! :happydance: Taking 2 x 50mg pills at once cd5-9. [-o&lt; to GOD this works! And they will have me on Prometrium progesterone support vaginally during the 2ww, so I am slowly getting everything on track! Whew! That makes me feel SO much better!!!! Come on AF! :haha: If all goes to plan and my "good" side works, IUI should be either June 30 or July 1!!!! I can hold out til then! :thumbup:


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## deafgal01

:yipee: Snd :dust: That sounds great!


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## Deb111

Great news snd :thumbup:


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## silverbell

Sorry I've been AWOL girls. Just been taking a step back and not been on as much and sticking mostly to my journal.

Just want to say I think of all of you all the time.

snd - I'm so sorry this cycle was cancelled, but I'm so chuffed for you to hear that they're taking it all so seriously and making huge steps to get you pregnant next time around :hugs: Come on AF!


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## MrsC8776

raelynn~ That makes sense. Fx they let you know what they can do. 

deafgal01~ Fx for a good SA 

esuzanne~ I hope everything went well today! 

stinas~ Sounds like things are moving right along. I'm glad everyone was so nice at the clinic. I always hated going in and wondering if they were going to be nice people or not. 

snd~ Yay for them listening and giving you a bigger dose of clomid! I'm thinking you and I will have the same dates for IUI. Possible cycle buddies? 

Canadian~ I hope your appointment went well today and you guys got some good news.


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## CanadianMaple

Hi girls, 
My appointment went well. He took a long time talking with us and we have a good idea of what each procedure entails. He told us every risk and at first I thought he was trying to talk us out of mTESE. I think he knew that we wanted it straight and told us about how exactly the surgery would look, right down to the possible complications. 

We talked about his low testosterone. DH was so upset when he told him that his low T would have to be treated for life. He talked about how it puts DH at a slightly higher rate for prostate cancer, but he said that the research is starting to show it makes the cancer grow but it doesn't necessarily cause cancer. I didn't have anything to back myself went I asked if there was an option to treat the testosterone during this period, while we were deciding if we wanted to do surgery. He said no, we would have to use testosterone and wait until after we make our decisions about fertility. 

They told me they would have to coordinate the mTESE with my ER. I'm really not feeling good about that. If we have to go the donor route, the compromise in my head was that we would do IUI and save the money and it would be less invasive. To think that we would both get procedures on the same day and have to use DS because of a failed mTESE would be hard on the head. Especially since we only have a 35-45% of finding sperm. I'm pretty caught up on that.

DH sounds like he may consider mTESE but it terrifies me that we to think we could easily drop $16,000 on mTESE, IVF and ICSI and walk away with nothing but debt. 

There is more, but I don't want to hijack the thread. I just feel like we are boxed into a corner. I don't want to have to do mTESE at the same time as the ER. I want to know if he has sperm before I put my body through anything. 

So, the appointment was good. He did a good job answering our questions and have more information.


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## CanadianMaple

snd- I'm so happy to hear they caved!


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## raelynn

Canadian - The plan with the mTESE with donor backup sounds like the exact plan we were going for until we found out our insurance would cover nothing once we included donor. I know it is kind of scarey thinking about having both your and DH's procedure the same day...we're faced with that possibility too but you can get through it! Glad that your meeting was so informative and you have some options now.

As for me - No update call on the decision for our IVF dates today. This has made me a crazy person. All day I've been waiting for the phone to ring or to get an email and now I have to go through it again tomorrow. I just want to know one way or the other. I told hubby if they say we can't do it now and have to wait until August that we're booking fabulous cruise excursions that night that I wouldn't be able to do if pregnant.


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## SunUp

Yay SND. Canadian, your plan sounds so similar to what we were told... if we went through the mTESE we would have done the same thing, but we decided against it. Good luck with the decisions, its tough.


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## CanadianMaple

I wondered if it was normal that they would do both procedures the same day. He only has OR time on Fridays, there is no way to time an ER for one day, right? Would we really lose 50% of the sperm if we froze it?


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## MrsC8776

raelynn~ Sorry to hear they never called. Stuff like that drives me crazy! :wacko:

Canadian~ Did they say 50% would be lost? That doesn't seem right. I understand a few not making it but not 50%. I just did some searching but couldn't find anything.


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## wibble wobble

MJ glad you got some answers hope you can manage to work out the rest in time

Snd yay to getting your own way... it's worth being firm with people


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## raelynn

MrsC8776 said:


> raelynn~ Sorry to hear they never called. Stuff like that drives me crazy! :wacko:
> 
> Canadian~ Did they say 50% would be lost? That doesn't seem right. I understand a few not making it but not 50%. I just did some searching but couldn't find anything.

I'm assuming they're still waiting on a response from the urologists office. The fertility center nurse has been amazing so I'm sure if she had news to share, she would have let me know. Hopefully we'll hear tomorrow because I don't know if I can wait the whole weekend :) My patience has diminished to pretty much nothing, so sad.


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## MJ73

CanadianMaple said:


> I wondered if it was normal that they would do both procedures the same day. He only has OR time on Fridays, there is no way to time an ER for one day, right? Would we really lose 50% of the sperm if we froze it?

Our testicular sperm didn't survive thaw. The way the scientist explained it to us is that when defrosting a normal sperm sample about 50% won't survive thaw. The problem when dealing with testicular sperm, they are dealing with way smaller numbers (in our case 32 sperm were frozen in three different straws) than a normal sample & often testicular sperm is arrested; not as developed as semen sample sperm. My specialist always prefers to use fresh. In the end though, they still have more success freezing defrosting sperm than eggs so I can understand you really wanting them to do a TESE first, to establish that DH is producing some sperm. Mind you for us on our exploratory TESE they found sperm on the 1st needle biopsy. On the 2nd one that was time with my egg retrieval they did 16 needle biopsies then had to cut him open to find sperm. So finding it in one TESE does not guarrantee that it will be found next time. I really feel for you guys, (it sounds like DH has been through so much already) this whole experience just sucks :hugs:


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## MJ73

SND, great news that your clinic listened to you. FX for you that this next cycle is it for you.

DG, good luck with DH's SA. Hoping that they find some lovely sperm. Your DH is on clomid, right?

raelynn, hope you hear something soon.

stinas, so happy for you that everyone at the clinic was so nice, it makes all the difference to your IVF experience.

SB, great to see you hun, hoping that this cycle is the one for you (damn it would be good if we could be bump buddies!!!:hugs:) Don't worry about having a break, we all go through stages like that.

WibbleWobble, how are you going hun? With all the injections etc:hugs:

Esuzanne, Welcome to the group no-one wants to be a member of :hugs: But like the other girls said, you are in good company. You will find a safe place here where you can not only get loads of information, but also loads of care & support. The girls on this thread ROCK:happydance:

AFM, we have a blood test tomorrow morning to make sure that everything is on track, then I have a nice relaxing massage planned tomorrow afternoon, then we will be sending out loads of lovely defrosting vibes to our little frosty, then if everything goes according to plan we will meet our little frosty blast on Sunday :cloud9: We can't wait. 

Anyone I've forgotten I send all the love & baby vibes I can muster xx


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## MJ73

I forgot to send some :dust::af::ninja: to *Sun*, keeping everything crossed for you (TMI; except my legs, they'll be wide open on sunday:wacko::flasher:)...


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## Deb111

CM - we had our ER and mTESE on the same day. He said he would advise a donor back-up, but the fact that we'd had 3 sperm retrieved in the NHS procedure meant that he wouldn't (and never does apparently) insist on it. In terms of having the procedures done on the same day, the only issue we had was needing to find someone to get us both the 2 and a half hour journey home as neither of us could drive afterwards. However, we were both fine physically afterwards - although I have to admit, the waiting for 2 and a half hours to go for ER after hubby went down for his op was nerve-wracking as they woulnd't take me down until they knew they had sperm.

I do however understand you not wanting to put your body through the IVF process and getting eggs, including the expense, to find you have no sperm to work with. IF it's what you decided to do, you could always freeze your eggs to use with donor sperm later if that was what you decided. I know it's not ideal, but would stop your side of things being wasted.


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## esuzanne

Hi ladies! We had our first urologist appt yesterday and we loved him!! He was able to examine DH and told us that he does have the Vas Def which if not could have been one of the issues haha...we told him that we want to be pretty aggressive about this. We have scheduled a biopsy for DH on June 20 and then I guess we will have our answer! The fertility clinic will also be there so they can examine and see if they find any. They said they will check one testicle and then if there are none, they will check the other. If they do find some, it will be frozen. Of course I know using fresh is always better but if it able to survive then that would be great and if not, well guess he will be under the knife again ;).

Have any of your DH had this? I am just glad that we will finally have an answer on if there are any in there at all!! I mean maybe you girls can help me, this will be the ultimate test, right? The dr also took blood for these tests...FSH, LH, Prolactin, and Testosterone.



Canadian--I can understand the concern...having to take in the fact that its either him or donor and having the procedure actually done, it alot to take in! Good luck!! :hug:


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## deafgal01

MJ- yes he's on a form of clomid.


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## Deb111

Suzanne - it sounds like your appt went really well and things are moving. My husband had a random biopsy on the NHS, but they woulnd't co-ordinate it with my cycle and said they woulkd freeze any they found. However, on the day, they only found 3 and got rid of them because they said they needed a minimum of 100 to freeze under NHS criteria, so just double check that they will freeze ANY that they find. I know it's a process that needs to be done and in hindsight, it at least gave us the hope to move on privately, but I wished we had been told the full facts because being overjoyed they at least found 'some' healthy, mature, motile was sperm only to be told they would destroy them, was heartbreaking at the time


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## esuzanne

Deb111 said:


> Suzanne - it sounds like your appt went really well and things are moving. My husband had a random biopsy on the NHS, but they woulnd't co-ordinate it with my cycle and said they woulkd freeze any they found. However, on the day, they only found 3 and got rid of them because they said they needed a minimum of 100 to freeze under NHS criteria, so just double check that they will freeze ANY that they find. I know it's a process that needs to be done and in hindsight, it at least gave us the hope to move on privately, but I wished we had been told the full facts because being overjoyed they at least found 'some' healthy, mature, motile was sperm only to be told they would destroy them, was heartbreaking at the time

Thanks Deb! Unfortunately, we will have to pay for most of this out of our pocket, but it is worth every penny! I will definitely be sure to check that they will freeze ANY they find! How was your DH's recovery? Apprently according to the dr, the clinic wants us to do this and see what the options are before we do anything with my cycle. I am so ready to just do SOMETHING haha!


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## raelynn

My nurse is amazing and finagled some earlier dates for us! I'm starting IVF next week! I'll be on the antagonist protocol with lupron trigger since I'm a high responder. I don't know much about the protocol but I guess I'll be finding out really soon!


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## Deb111

He was in quite a lot of pain after the random biopsy, but it was more abdominal pain than anything - partly caused by the discomfort of the 'one size' support jockstrap they put on him (and he's def not a one size fits all guy!) The half hour journey home was very uncomfortable for him in the car too. He had it done on the Thurs and they said he'd be fine for work on the Mon - in actual fact he didn't even get out of bed apart from going to the loo until Tuesday. Plus the pain killers gave him dreadful constipation which only added to the abdominal discomfort.

HOWEVER, the other 3 men who had the same procedure at the same time, walked out of there like nothing had happened - so I think hubby was in the minority. 

Now, the mTESE, which is in theory much more invasive surgery, was totally different. They gave him an injection of pain killers in surgery, but he never so much as took a paracetamol afterwards. Managed being driven a 2 and a half hour car journey home the same day with no discomfort and was up and about as normal the next day.


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## Deb111

raelynn said:


> My nurse is amazing and finagled some earlier dates for us! I'm starting IVF next week! I'll be on the antagonist protocol with lupron trigger since I'm a high responder. I don't know much about the protocol but I guess I'll be finding out really soon!

How exciting!!! :happydance:


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## Stinas

raelynn - YAY!!!!


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## wibble wobble

yay raelynn anatagonist is the short protocol no down regging just stimms drugs egg collection,egg transfer 2ww... we may be 2wwers together

MJ going good now counting down the days til baseline scan 5 togo


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## raelynn

Wibble wobble - My schedule definitely seems really fast. When are you projected to be in the 2ww? It would be great to have someone to tough it out with :)

From what I've read so far, I'm on the antagonist protocol with lupron trigger since I'm at risk to be a high responder. I have PCOS which is already at risk for OHSS and my AFC was high so I'm actually glad to be on this protocol since I was really worried about OHSS. It is supposed to be really unlikely with the lupron trigger instead of HCG


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## Mercury1

Hi again! I've been watching what's happening with everyone, and it's so exciting that so many of you are seeing some action :happydance: So excited for you all and praying hard it works ..... and getting impatient waiting for my turn :growlmad: but you've all been where I am and it'll come! Everything crossed for you all. 



> I am just glad that we will finally have an answer on if there are any in there at all!! I mean maybe you girls can help me, this will be the ultimate test, right? The dr also took blood for these tests...FSH, LH, Prolactin, and Testosterone.

Hi esuzanne - just wondering if genetic tests had been mentioned? Esp if you're paying for procedures out of your own pocket maybe these should be done as it may change things. I assume they've excluded a blockage with an ultrasound? Although the hormone tests he's had will point to whether its obstructive or not. It's just that a biopsy is quite a big thing if this stuff hasn't been looked into first, but at least you have a urologist who's got things moving :thumbup:

AFM, me and OH are in quite a good place after his angry time following the bad results. Still waiting for an appointment to schedule mTESE. He got all upset with himself for missing one day of supplements, so I'm glad he's being so proactive (if a bit oversensitive.....!!). I had my first really bad day at work with all this after delivering a baby and then wondering if it'll ever happen for me. Hope it was just a blip and I can keep personal and professional separate most of the time :shrug:

Wibble wobble, silverbell, snd, raelynn, sun up, MrsC and MJ - good luck with with your treatment. Sending you all the luck in the world.

Deafgal - fingers crossed for good news with your SA

Stinas - you must be so excited! and sooooo nervous!

Canadianmaple - sorry you've still got tough decisions, but at least you're getting somewhere

I'm cheering you all on from the sidelines!! xxx


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## esuzanne

Deb-sorry to hear your DH had such a rough time! :-( Ill be sure not to mention it to mine ;-) haha. I've tried looking online but I'm so confused...what exactly as far as procedure, is the difference from the microTESE & the general biopsy? Hell I kinda feel like if you're already in there lets just check it out ;-)

Mercury-we haven't done any genetic testing yet and we are still waiting for the hormone tests-hope to hear on Monday! I think the reason the dr didn't suggest an ultrasound is bc we really want to get on this and find an answer. Of course it would've been cheaper haha! I wonder how long the genetic tests would take? I know our insurance wont pay for them either. :-/ 

I hope we are doing the right thing?!


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## luckdragon

silverbell said:


> Sorry I've been AWOL girls. Just been taking a step back and not been on as much and sticking mostly to my journal.
> 
> Just want to say I think of all of you all the time.
> 
> snd - I'm so sorry this cycle was cancelled, but I'm so chuffed for you to hear that they're taking it all so seriously and making huge steps to get you pregnant next time around :hugs: Come on AF!

hope your doing ok silver xxx


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## Deb111

Suzanne - the hormone blood tests should give a pretty good indication of whether your dh has a blockage or not. My hubby never had an ultrasound because the blood test gave them the answers they needed.

The main difference with the precedures is that the random biopsies / TESE / PESA etc either randomly aspirate fluid or take tiny biopsy samples from various places e.g.t eh epididimus (sp?) whereas with the mTESE they literall slice the testicle in half and 'read it like a book' (in the words of our urologist) with a very powerful microscope. They cannot see the sperm, but look for the tubules that look more round and full - they are the ones likely to contain sperm so they know where to aim for


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## Stinas

Mercury1 - It is exciting and scary at the same time. Im just hoping DH biopsy show sperm, which doc seems pretty confident he will find some. Everything came back normal and he did find the blockage, but its still scary not knowing 100% sure whats in there. I do have a good feeling though. 
Dont worry....you will move along too soon! Waiting is the worst. Im fortunate enough to have found the right docs that have sped us through this process. I wish it was like that for everyone here. I never imagined it to go so fast. I feel guilty in a way because I know sooo many of you azoo ladies are still waiting.


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## raelynn

Stinas - That is so great that your docs have been so wonderful! Glad you're getting to move forward rather quickly. I think the waiting is the hardest part!


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## Stinas

raelynn - Thank you! Im shocked myself that it has gone so fast. Im still not counting my chickens until the biopsy. 

Deb - If you want to change the first page to Biopsy July 9.


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## MJ73

Hi girls, sorry a bit tired tonight for personals (I blame the progesterone)... But we have one beautiful A grade re-expanding blastocyst on board :happydance:

Our little emby looks beautiful & sends lots of love to his/her Azoo Aunts. If you want to see a pic, please check out my journal. Here's praying that s/he loves her/his new home enough to stick around for the next 9 months... :cloud9: 

Now for the dreaded 2ww :wacko: OTD 21 June.


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## Deb111

I've updated front page Stinas and MJ :happydance: xx


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## SunUp

HANG ON TANG! (for 9 months!)


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## hopefulgirl1

Hello ladies,

I'm new to forums so a liitle about my story. I'm 26 DH is 29 we have been TTC for two years since we been married. After trying for two years thought i'd go see my doc, he sent us both for tests DH had zero sperm count on both tests. 
This broke his heart, thinks he has let me down I've never seen him soo depressed ever! 

Wondering if any one could give us advise and share your experiences withnus. DH has been asked to go do a chromosome yes before sending us to a FS. What are our options of having a biological baby if his SA had zero sperm count?


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## Deb111

Hi Hopefulgirl - so sorry you find yourself here but you're in good company :flower:

The first thing they will need to do is work out if your dh has a blockage. Sometimes they will do an ultrasound to determine this but often the hormone blood test results can tell them i.e. if the body has detected a problem, it will increase the hormones to try to fix it so the FSH level will be raised. If it's a blockage, the body knows sperm production is fine so doesn't need to increase hormone levels.

There's no point in making false promises, and it's one hell of a tough journey, but to cut a long story short, we were told by the NHS that we only had 2 options - adoption or donor sperm BUT after hormone treatment, an excellent private urologist, mTESE operation where they only got about 40 sperm, we are now 19 and a half weeks pregnant :cloud9: (and that's with me having a stupidly low AMH level too :dohh:)


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## raelynn

MJ - Beautiful picture. Praying your little one snuggles in and hangs on tight!


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## Stinas

Mj - that's such exciting news!!!!! Stick stick stick!!! 

Hopefulgirl - I'm sorry to see you here, but it's an amazing support group, with tons of information. Deb summed it up pretty good. I hope you don't have to wait too long for answers. We are all here whenever you want to vent!


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## WANBMUM

Hi gals and welcome hopefulgirl! 

Seems to be a downer on this thread at the moment :( Im hoping we all have a turn around real soon. We are due some luck. Hopefull MJ your the first to get it :)

We didnt get great news ourselves today, we were supposed to have IUI tomorrow or Tuesday, our 2nd attempt, but I got a positive on an OPK yesterday, which means tomorrow would be too late and my egg is already on its travels, so because of the fricken weekend, we have missed our window - our clinic only opens monday to friday - how stupid is that, I will have to train my body to ovulate mon through fri in future!!!!
I think I have been crying for 2 hours solid, this is our 2nd cancelled IUI - first time I was over stimulated on clomid.
It makes me wonder is there really light at the end of the tunnel :(


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## Deb111

So sorry Wanbmum - that must be so frustrating.

When we were trying to time things with hubbys mTESE, I was worried I may ov too early and I was told there's something they can give you to hold it off - can't rememebr what it was called, but worth asking for future xx


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## WANBMUM

Thanks deb, I will deffo have a look into that. They said next month they would scan me every day to monitor me better. Oh well. 
I'm just disappointed as fathers day is coming up and our wedding anniversary. Just feeling sorry for myself but I know I'll pick myself up and get positive. We have to in this process don't we. 
Hope your keeping well deb. is it this week you find out the sex? Exciting huh!


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## CanadianMaple

hopefulgirl1- Boy, do I remember the day I found out and how difficult it was to take in. It's hard too because you're in shock and it's hard to know what to say to DH in those early days. You will get a good feeling about what's going on with hormonal tests. Some genetic tests will also explain why if they are positive and will alter your treatment plan.

We are at a crossroads now. DH has primary testicular failure. We found that out because his testosterone was very low and his FSH and LH were high. His body was trying to tell his testicles to make sperm with no success. We were given the option of mTESE with a 35-45% chance of finding sperm. 

MJ73- I hope your little embie is snuggling in right now!

Stinas- Your biospy is one my first anniversary date! That will be here before you know it.

(page flip, will do more personals in next post)


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## CanadianMaple

WANBMUM- What a bummer. I can't believe your clinic is only open on weekdays. I hope they can answer to what they can do to help you ovulate on their schedule. I'm so sorry, I would have been really upset too. It's especially hard with Father's day and anniversaries. 

AFM- We have been having a hard time with making a decision. I've been lurking but felt like I was always feeling sad/negative and it was best to process some of this on my own. We saw the urologist again and with a clearer picture of what the mTESE would look like, we have decided against doing it. Chris really couldn't stomach the thought of the surgery, and I really couldn't bring myself to accept that we would be in the middle of an IVF cycle before we would know if he had sperm or not.

So, he has been doing for months. He was struggling a lot this weekend and knew we had to do something. His parents are amazing people and such great people to talk out a problem with. Much to his relief, they agreed that the surgery was too much for him, especially with such a small success rate. 35-45% wasn't high enough and to add a 50% chance of IVF working with that sperm dropped us down to a 1/5 chance of having a bio baby. For the cost and the pain (and time), it just isn't something we can do.

So, his parents spontaneously asked us about donor sperm and both made it clear that they would support that. So, he is still wondering if he should do the TESA, just to say he tried it to avoid having regrets, go straight to dIUI or walk away completely.

He is suddenly pouring over my book "Helping the Stork" and was on the xytex site trying to find a donor. We even agreed on a first choice if we decide to go that route. We see the RE on June 27th, so it would be great to have a plan when we see him.

(Sorry for the huge update!)


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## MJ73

Thanks girls for all the support :hugs: Tang the emby is hopefully settling in nicely xx

*Wanbmum*, so sorry hun, that really sucks. Sending loads of :hugs: your way. 

*Canadian*, I'm pleased for you that you've made a decision, in some ways that is the main part of the battle. I think to see that you have options, needle aspiration or DS also helps. If it's any comfort, Simon has taken about 2 years to get his head around DS. He went from being completely against it, to may be considering it, to saying that he only wanted de-identified DS to saying he would consider using a known donor to last wednesday night being happy & comfortable with using our known donor (our clinic will only use known donor). So, it's been quite a journey, just to get to this point.

*hopefulgirl*, welcome :hugs:. Sorry you've found yourself here, but you're in the right place to get info & support. Finding out your partner has azoo is devastating & I really feel for you. I agree with the other girls the 1st things they will do is to screen for blockages (a blockage is really best case scenario, as it will usually mean that DH is producing plenty of sperm that can be found on TESE), hormonal issues (testicular failure etc) & genetic issues (klinefelters, CF carrier etc) & that will give you & the drs a better idea what is causing it & the chances of finding sperm in sugery. Be aware, Drs (GPs in Aus anyway) seem to know very little about it & we were told firstly that we had no chance of having Simon's bio child, our GP even asked Simon if he'd had a vasectomy & not told us about it!!! (We left that GP) But now we have a great specialist, who is very sensitive & kind. I wish you the best of luck :hugs:


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## hopefulgirl1

I'm assuming the hormone test came out fine because the gyno did not say anything about those results, he just asked the DH to do chromosome testing? He told us this will help the specialist when we eventually get an appointment.
What will the chromosome test results show?


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## hopefulgirl1

P.s sorry thanks ladies, you all seem like a very lovely bunch I'm so glad I sound this forum!
I'm so new to all this. Never even thought that we would ever have these kind of problems. All my friends around me are having babies and keep asking me the question when we are going to, I haven't told anyone of our problems as it really upsets me talking about it. 
My husband is soo devastated about it aswell and I don't know how to explain to him that he hasn't let me down as he really thinks this.


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## SunUp

WANB :( Oh I am so sorry for you. I cannot believe it, how STUPID for them to be only available mon-fri. My local office is Mon-Fri so yesterday I had to go for a drive (a little over an hour) for my appointment. I am REALLY hoping July is time for your BFP, you so deserve it!

Canadian - I really feel where you are right now, as we opted against the surgery too, but then were thinking 'what ifs' for a while. Once we chose DS it was such a relief. To be honest, I rarely even call it DIUI anymore, just because in my head, while its not my DHs biological sperm, its still my husbands child! And now, sometimes, I think he is even more hopeful than I am! Best of luck in your decisions. I am here for you if you need anything!

Hopeful - Sorry you have to join us but I hope you find this thread a comfort, as I have.

MJ - you have no idea how much baby dust and hugs I am sending your way!

Rae- Where are you at with IVF... did you have a time frame? Sorry if I missed it, I tried to read back but I didn't see it.

Snd - Fingers crossed your body is getting all lined up for your good side to have a few nice follies!!!

Deb- How soon until you know if baby is team pink or team blue?


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, I hope everyone is well. I have been MIA this month whilst going through the early stages of another cycle of IUI, but am now depressed to give you all an update:

Our IUI has been cancelled so go 5 was a failiure too. I had my Day 8 scan which showed a really big follie at 15m, on day 10 it was the same size but she thought in a different place and was odd shaped and was worried about it. Today (day 13) they told me it had gone, apparantly it had just fizzled away, sometimes this happens, no reason. I have not ovulated because the linging was still getting thicker.

I can't believe it, I never imagined things like this could happen!

She is changing my injection amounts from every other day from day 3 to every day from day 4 next month. So I just have to wait for CD1 again!

I hope you are all having better luck than me right now! Look forward to hearing some more BFP's!


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## deafgal01

:hugs: wan that just sucks. :hugs:

Hopeful- you've come to the right place. Sometimes they take a few days to reveal blood levels. I think it takes 3 to 5 days for the dr to call my dh back with his blood results for the hormone levels. Think we get SA results same day they do it (cannot remember). Have not ever done a chromonosal test. Right now you are grieving but you will eventually be able to accept the news, on occasion not be bitter at anyone pregnant, and not cry/get upset when you tell others of the diagnosis if you share.

Well, dh managed to tell both his parents as he needed to ask them if anything might have happened as a child to cause this. Both have known at least a month now. My parents on the other hand is clueless. I did manage to finally break the news to my sister last night that we were facing a infertility issue (I do not want to say what til dh feels ok with more people knowing). My cousin (just 1) is aware dh and I have been seeking a dr help to get pregnant (she does not know of fertility being an issue I think). These 4 are the only ones aware I think. I realized last night I made progress cuz I did not cry or get upset telling my sister that infertility is playing a role in our trying.


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## tigerlily1975

I'm so very sorry, Step Mummy, it must be so utterly frustrating :hugs: I'm wishing very hard that everything goes smoothly with the next cycle. I also agree that we need some BFPs on here!

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Oh, I meant to say a BIG THANK YOU for all the birthday wishes! We didn't really do anything this year - I wasn't in the mood, what with losing my dad in January - but we did pop over to see my brother. He lives in this tiny little ye olde English village - I joke that it's like something out of the TV show 'Midsomer Murders', but thankfully minus the crazy murders!

Big :hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## Chickadeedee

Hi Ladies, 
I guess it is time I joined this thread....
My husband & I have been TTC for a year now. He had testicular cancer in his early 30's. We finally sought help from a FS after his initial SA showed what we were initially told were very few sperm....but we were under the impression that there were at least some... (the analysis was done at our local small town hospital)...We have since done two more SA at the FS office and now we are shocked to learn that he has NO sperm...mind you that we were told the results after driving 2 hours to the office for our follow up to find out when I needed to start meds for IVF w/ ICSi. We had NO idea this is what we were going to hear.
To say we are devastated is an understatement. The FS basically said our only option is donor sperm.
Now reading through this thread, I'm wondering if an appointment with his urologist might be in order? Could he maybe have sperm somewhere that a doctor can access them???


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## Deb111

Hi chickadeedee - I'm sorry to hear your story. You are very welcome here.

I don't really know anything about azoospermia cause by chemo so don't really know what to advise, but it may be helpful to speak to a urologist even if it is just to confirm what you have been told. Was he not advised to freeze any sperm before the cancer treatment?


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## deafgal01

Chick- that's a good question. I don't know if he's got any somewhere that a dr could retrieve for you guys. :shrug: But it's something to look into. Deb has a lot of good information in the first post should you want to inquire further with a specialist about what to do/where to go from here.


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## Chickadeedee

Thanks! He actually didn't have chemo, just removal of one testie and then radiation. And yes, he probably was advised to freeze, but we hadn't met yet, and at that time I don't think he ever thought he would marry and have children...he was just scared out of his mind at the thought of having cancer :( 
I'll look back at the first post now! Thanks again!!!


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## snd80

Wow! Two more new members.... it saddens me! :nope: 

But welcome to Hopeful and Chick! Hope you get the answers you seek soon! And we are all here for you!

How is everyone else today? :flower:


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## Deb111

Felt my first proper flutters today! :cloud9:


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: DEB that's awesome! :cloud9: I bet that felt so amazing.


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## Stinas

hopefulgirl1 - I think all the azoo men go through the same thoughts/feelings. They all think they have let us down, but in reality they have not. As time goes by it will be easier to discuss his feelings and he will soon realize it was nothing he could have prevented. 

Chickadeedee - Im sorry to see you here, but welcome to a wonderful thread!!! I would see a GOOD urologist ASAP. They can tell you the most about that area. We found a great urologist by calling the fertility center and seeing who they highly suggest for our azoo situation. We originally went to which ever urologist had the earliest apt available, who ended up sending us to this urologist as well. I hope you get some answers soon!

Deb - YAY!!!!! Awwww....that must be such an amazing feeling, especially after all you went through to get to this point. How exciting!


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## snd80

Deb111 said:


> Felt my first proper flutters today! :cloud9:

Awww Deb!!!!! Our "nephew" is cutting up for you!!!!! :winkwink:

You are _*SO*_ lucky!!!! I pray to GOD to have that feeling one day!!!!!


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## raelynn

SunUp said:


> Rae- Where are you at with IVF... did you have a time frame? Sorry if I missed it, I tried to read back but I didn't see it.

We got our earlier dates approved so I'm in the beginning stages right now. 



Deb111 said:


> Felt my first proper flutters today! :cloud9:

Deb, how wonderful! I'm sure that is just amazing!


I had my mock transfer today and my doctor said everything was 'not just good but great' he said it will be a very easy transfer. It was very quick, I had some slight cramping, nothing worse than AF, and then it was done. He gave me a print out of my uterus for being a good patient LOL! Hopefully nothing crazy pops up on the baseline blood work and ultrasound on Wednesday so I can start stims on Saturday. I got a confirmation from the insurance today that they'll be delivering my meds on Wednesday too.


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## CanadianMaple

Chickadeedee- I'm so sorry you're finding yourself in here. I remember so clearly how lost I felt and how many questions I had. We're here to help you sort out your questions.

raelynn- So glad things are looking so great!

Deb- I'm so excited for you. Such a neat experience.

For those of you who did dIUI, how long did it take to get started? What kind of testing do they do other than the blood tests they did on me at the very beginning? We see the RE on June 27 and will probably decide then if we are going straight to donor or will try a TESA just so we can say we tried something.


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## MrsC8776

Welcome hopeful :hi: Sorry I'm a little late on the welcome. 

WANBMUM~ So sorry to hear you had to miss IUI again. I'm sure having a clinic that is closed on the weekends makes things very difficult. Is there anything you can do next month? 

Canadian~ I know we have talked but I'm so glad that things seem to be moving forward for you. Even if it is just one step at a time, that one step is progress. 

Step Mummy~ Sorry to hear that your IUI was canceled. I hope they can finger out what to do next so that this doesn't happen to you again. 

deafgal~ I'm sure it feels great to be able to tell people. You need all the support you can get! 

Welcome Chickadeedee :hi: I think it would be helpful to at least ask a urologist what they think. It couldn't hurt. 

Deb~ That is so exciting! Don't you find out what you are having this week? 

raelynn~ I'm glad the mock transfer went great today. Yay for getting meds soon! 

Canadian~ Just saw your new post while writing this. I believe that if you have had all your testing done there isn't much else to do. Have you had an HSG? I know that not everyone has to have one before treatment but I think they like to do it anyways. Since we were going for IVF and then switched to DIUI I can get started right away. There may need to be some consent forms to sign as well. Also I know at the clinic I go to they want all the tests within a year. I had to redo all my blood work after switching clinics. 

Sorry I've been MIA in here lately. I hope you all are doing well! :hugs:


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## deafgal01

MrsC- I only told my sister. I haven't found the nerve to tell any more family members. :haha: I guess that will come in due time- probably over the course of this summer or the holidays. Unless the dr manages to find what it takes to get us pregnant. :shrug:

:dust: to all the girls in their 2ww now.

:hugs: to all the others waiting (or just now joining the boat we're all in). :hugs:


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## SunUp

:hi: Chick! Nice to 'meet' you, even though its unfortunate circumstances!

Rae- Yay! Glad it went well!:happydance:

Canadian - It was super fast. I had one more blood test to tell if I was CMV positive or negative. We met for an hour or so with the FS's counselor... and then had to pick (and purchase) our DS. Then we started with clomid my next cycle. It was nice to be able to be DOING something!

AFM, IUI was today (and again tomorrow). I'll update a lot more in my journal if you're interested.:coolio:


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## raelynn

Good luck this round sunup!


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## MoBaby

SunUp said:


> :
> 
> AFM, IUI was today (and again tomorrow). I'll update a lot more in my journal if you're interested.:coolio:

yeah! fx for you! 
Deb: flutters! how awesome!
afm im copying my post from the other thread im on because its to long to retype. Lap went well. Some unusual findings. Im a bit more sore today but i can handle it.
Now about the surgery. Was planned to be 2 hours and ended up being 3.5. fibroid very large, removed abnormal uterine tissue. But what threw my re (and me) is i have a unicornuate uterus . i never had an hsg and since we found out right away that we had severe male factor i never had an extensive workup nor needed it. all other tests were fine. i have always had a slight curve to my endometrium; now we know why. So re ended up removing the part of my uterus that was malformed (there ar more details but i wont go into them). Bad news: i only have 1 tube only a right tube. ive always had 2 good looking ovaries. and the half of uterus that is formed right looks good now after the hysteroscopy. so heres what i learned today:
our male factor infertility would have ended up being female factor if dh had normal sperm we were doomed as i was being formed in my moms womb!
vaginal delivery is not an option at all anymore. i would probably need c-section scheduled early.
i will now need close monitorning during pregnancy- idk if this means i need to go high risk or not?
i am fibroid free!
i see re i 2-4 weeks. i will probably go in 2.5 bc im not able to exercise for at least 2 and with the extrastuff today i want to wait to be cleared in person. and i can walk but thats boring
He said ivf in september!
he gave me pretty pics 

imhoping these4 battle wounds dont get nuch morepainful right now its the left lower one that hurts some.i think im going t do just fine though  thanks for your girls support! <3


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## SunUp

Good to hear from you Mo!
Sorry there ended up being more going on, but glad the doctor could take care of it and YAY for IVF SOON!


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## Deb111

Mrs C - we find out what flavour Bubble is in ... 18 hours time!! :thumbup:

SunUp - good luck with the IUI hun :hugs:

Gosh MoBaby - what a lot going on! You probably would be classed as high risk (as I am) and although that feels scary at first, what it actually means is that they keep a much closer eye on you and you get extra scans so it's quite reassuring really 

Hope everyone else is doing ok xx


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## MoBaby

deb why are you high risk? i dont mind being high risk. i know an awesome high risk ob which makes me feel better about it and i work with his wife which is always a plus


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## Deb111

I'm high risk because of my BMI being over 30, past history of slight asthma, being on treatment for high BP and the fact that it's an ICSI / IVF pregnancy. They fill in this list and you get points for each thing and if your total is over a certain number; you're put down as high risk


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## MoBaby

oh okay...darn, im starting to rack in the points then! myomectomy, uricornuate uterus, ivf/icsi, history of miscarriage. hmm what else can i thrown in lol. all of ths discovered/happened whilist doing ivf!


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## deafgal01

Mo- at least you can count on them keeping a very close eye on your pregnancy/baby. :thumbup: That's a good thing.


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## cosita

Hi girls, Hope you are all good. I haven't been on much lately, wanted to take a bit of a break. Not been too good really to be honest...have been reading Helping the Stork and really required some deep thought. I really don't know if its for me. So coming to this realisation breaks my heart all over again because I really thought we had all our options open. Now I'm not so sure. We still haven't ruled out ICSI but we cant do it right now, hopefully in the autumn.
Before I go on, I really apprecitate everyone on here and sometimes I feel very selfish as I only come on when i need some help. I see how you all do personals and remember all the details and I feel very rude!!:dohh:
Anyway...
We got my husbands cariotype tests back and all is ok, but they also requested prolactin, testosterone, FSH and LH. He had these done back in November and they all came back normal but this time prolactin is almost 18ng/mL (max 18) and Testosterone is under 3 (min 2.7). Could this be significant do you think? Or have any of you similar results?
Thanks girls.: Flor:


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## Deb111

Lovely to see you Cosita and don't ever feel bad about needing a break or not doing personals - it's hard to keep track of everyone - there are a few members who do great long lists of personals and they put me to shame too :nope:

With regards to the blood test results, I'm sure it was prolactin that Mr Ramsay said fluctuated a lot during the day and it was important to get it done in the morning. Terry's testosterone was low at 4ish and his prolactin was supposed to be around 200 - 300 I think, but he had one test where it was 900 ish I think, which is why they sent him for an MRI scan just to check there wasn't anything pressing on the pituitary gland - but it was fine and his next one came back as normal.

It might be worth getting the bloods repeated again and do some research into the time of day they should be done.

The results could be significant. Have you ever spoken to Dr Turek? He will give you some good, sound, free advice that may at least tell you what these results really mean in terms of fertility and possible treatment. You can then tackle your urologist with the info.

I'm sorry you feel your options have been reduced. Maybe you just need to exhaust all the other avenues first and then take it from there if necessary xx

*EDIT - just checked back in my LTTTC journal "Prolactin - 975 mu/L - redone with endocrinologist @ 200 ish (normal <401)"*


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## MrsC8776

deafgal~ You should take as long as you want to tell other people. Honestly we haven't told any family about what we are doing. They know we are trying but they don't know the whole story. It's our business and we want to keep it that way for right now. :winkwink:

SunUp~ I hope your IUI went well today. Fingers crossed for you this month. Good luck in the 2ww. It's always the worst for me. :flower:

MoBaby~ I know I have already replied to you about your surgery but I just wanted to send you some :hugs: 

Deb~ That is so exciting! Not much longer now. :thumbup:

cosita~ I don't know much about the results you are asking about but I'm glad the ones you have look good. :flower:

Ladies who are doing IUI... Is there anything you are doing to help your odds? I know this is a common question but I'm wondering if I should do anything besides just take the clomid.


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## Stinas

Sunup - :dust::dust:

MoBaby - wow...you have a lot going on, but its better they found and took care of all of this now rather than later. IVF is not too far away! yay! 

cosita - You should never feel bad for wanting a little break. Its overwhelming a lot of the time....we all need it from time to time. Everyone is more than happy to help each other even if they pop in and out.


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## Step Mummy

Chickadeedee said:


> Hi Ladies,
> I guess it is time I joined this thread....
> My husband & I have been TTC for a year now. He had testicular cancer in his early 30's. We finally sought help from a FS after his initial SA showed what we were initially told were very few sperm....but we were under the impression that there were at least some... (the analysis was done at our local small town hospital)...We have since done two more SA at the FS office and now we are shocked to learn that he has NO sperm...mind you that we were told the results after driving 2 hours to the office for our follow up to find out when I needed to start meds for IVF w/ ICSi. We had NO idea this is what we were going to hear.
> To say we are devastated is an understatement. The FS basically said our only option is donor sperm.
> Now reading through this thread, I'm wondering if an appointment with his urologist might be in order? Could he maybe have sperm somewhere that a doctor can access them???

Hi Chick, I am so sorry, I know exactly how you feel, we also found out 2 1/2years ago that we had no sperm at all coming out, we had the SSR (Surgical Sperm Retrieval) op in which they operate by cutting into the testicals and take out tissue which can contain the sperm, unforunately for us this was not a sucess, but for many it is. We are doing donor sperm IUI now. 

However I do not know if the op is a possibility for you, as for us there was no reason, through all of the tests, why DH was not producing any sperm and he had a son who is now 20, so it was possible for us that they would find some.

I really know what a tough time this is for you and I am so sorry to hear you are in the same position a I am, no-one can really understand how much you have to greive for the loss of your DH's baby. I can only suggest that you both take up the offer of councilling and take the time to talk to each other. It took me many months to deal with it before I could even consider looking at donors, on the otherside many people can just get on with it straight away, everyone deals with things differently. The only thing I can say now is that I wished I had just got on with things sooner, as I would not still be messing around and dealing with everything now.

GL xx


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## Deb111

Quick update girls - looks like we're 'probably' team :pink: NHS scan was not great and neither was the sonographer :growlmad:


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## tigerlily1975

Deb111 said:


> Quick update girls - looks like we're 'probably' team :pink: NHS scan was not great and neither was the sonographer :growlmad:

:happydance: :dance: :happydance: 

Aww, that's wonderful! How exciting.. you can buy all those cute little dresses! I had an inkling you were going to have a gorgeous girl!

:hugs:

C xx


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## SunUp

Deb... Sorry your not 100% sure, but team pink is AWESOME! :) So excited for you!

AFM, IUI2 didn't go so well, as I have felt terrible ever since :( So, I think I am out this time... :/


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## tigerlily1975

Sun: Big :hugs: on their way to you. Are you sure? 

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

MoBaby said:


> oh okay...darn, im starting to rack in the points then! myomectomy, uricornuate uterus, ivf/icsi, history of miscarriage. hmm what else can i thrown in lol. all of ths discovered/happened whilist doing ivf!

Aww, Mo :hugs: blimey, you've been through a lot in a very short space of time. I hope you're continuing to recover well and as Deafgal said, at least it means you'll get special treatment when you are pregnant.

:hugs:

C xx


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## esuzanne

I too, feel bad as it seems I only post about myself and asking for your help. :| There is alot going on with everyone and that is wodnerful to see, even if there are some bumps along the way. Can you ladies imagine if this were 12 years ago? Our options would have been very limited! Thank goodness for technology...sometimes haha ;)

Deb--a sweet little girl!! Soo exciting! And how exciting that you were able to feel her! :cloud9: I will continue to think of you and hope for smooth sailing the rest of the way!!

Chick & Hopeful--Welcome! Sorry that you find yourself here...but I am slightly new and these ladies are absolutely wonderful!!! It is amazing to know there are so many people out there going through this as well! Good luck to you and keep us all updated!!

:hugs:


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## esuzanne

So at the urologist appt they took blood and now come to find out, the lab messed up and only ran the test for testosterone!! :dohh: Grrrr! So he went in today for more blood and hopefully we will know the results by Friday. I was hoping we would find out before the biopsy next week in case it will change that. His testosterone was 383.7....I have read online that the range starts somewhere at 290 and goes up. You know with the wonderful internet, I also read that even if they are in the 300s it is still not good. Any ideas? 

I mean I guess we should go ahead with the biopsy and if it turns out he just needs testosterone treatment, that would be great! What do you think?! :confused:


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## tigerlily1975

Hi esuzanne :hi:

Ah, how annoying! Hopefully they'll have the results before your appointment. I used to work in a Pathology department & most blood tests can be run in a day & the results go straight onto the computer system, it's generally getting the letters out that takes time!

My DH's bloods all came back normal, aside from a slightly raised FSH, so we still don't know to this day what the cause of the Azoo is. Which meant that our only option was to go for the surgery. I think some ladies OH's on here had low testosterone and they were treated for that (I'm looking towards our fountain of knowledge Deb here!), so hopefully someone more informed (that's all of you!) will be able to offer some advice. 

Good luck!

:hugs:

C xx


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## snd80

Deb- :dance: :happydance: Team pink!!! How exciting!!! Little girls are so much fun, and allllllll the cutesy stuff for them!!! But whatever it is, as long as it's healthy, who cares!!! :cloud9:


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## esuzanne

Ok soo...DH just let me know that the nurse from Urologist called and said that his FSH and LH were high, while prolactin was normal. She said that the dr will give him a call tomorrow to explain. ??????


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## Deb111

Suzanne - I'm not sure what the testosterone level would be over here - we measure it differently - my hubby's was 4 ish - normal is 8 and above

in terms of the raised FSH and LH - make sure you ask the actual figures. If it is raised, it means that his body knows there's a problem and is trying to fix it. Usually means there isn't a blockage. If it's not too high and his testosterone is low, they may be able to try something like anastrazole or tamoxifen


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## Sar187

Whew I think I just made it through over 50 pages of posts in order to catch up.

Sorry I haven't been on to update lately but with trying to get the house ready for this baby, getting my gardens ready and planted to hopefully help make some extra money this year and everything else we have going on, I haven't been finding the time to sit down at the computer a whole lot. 

I'd like to welcome all the new ladies, even though this isn't a place anyone really wants to be it is a great group with tons of great information!

Deb-So glad to hear things are going well for you. Those first flutters are just so amazing! You will be amazed at how fast they turn into big kicks!

LuckDragon-Congrats on the BFP! So happy for you!

rdleela- I know that many many pages back you were asking about others with blockages. My DH actually has a blockage that was caused by 2 separate hernia surgeries one at 5 months and one at 4 years old. We were told that in his case because the scar tissue would be located so high up on the vas deferens that corrective/bypass surgery would have less than 5% chance of working to allow enough sperm to pass through for a natural conception, I think it was a little over 15% chance of it working to allow some sperm but not enough for natural conception. We were told that most likely even if the surgery worked to allow some sperm we would still have to do IVF/ICSI we would just be bypassing the TESE surgery. However with the TESE surgery we were given an 85% chance of retrieving usable sperm. We decided financially and statistically we would be better off to forget the corrective/bypass surgery and go straight to the TESE. They were able to find sperm and used 1 vial for that fresh IVF/ICSI cycle(failure) and froze another 6. We used one of the frozen vials for our 2nd IVF/ICSI cycle(success) so now have 5 left. 

Those of you ladies doing IUI or IVF with failed cycles, I'm so sorry and praying for good news for you soon! Failed cycles are tough and no matter what you question yourself but know that there is nothing you are doing wrong!

So glad to hear so many ladies moving along in the process and making some good progress!

AFM-I'm almost 29 weeks along now and things are still going really well. My biggest issue right now is heartburn no matter what I eat, and tums have become my best friend. I'm also having issues with sleeping well but experimenting with pillows seems to be doing the trick. I passed my gestational diabetes test and bloodwork came back normal except for slightly low iron levels. They put me on an iron supplement and told me it was nothing to worry about. We chose not to find out the sex, but Baby M is extremely active and pretty much any time I'm not moving it is. DH loves watching my belly move as the baby wiggles and kicks. 

We actually have an appointment tomorrow to be screened for a possible home birth with a Certified Nurse Midwife, so may be transferring providers. The nursery is coming along and we have actually started putting stuff in there. A close friend, my cousin and my future SIL are also planning a shower for me next weekend on the 23rd so I am looking forward to that. 

Sorry to those of you that I missed, hoping that things are going well!


----------



## Deb111

Sar - it's lovely to hear form you and I'm so glad things are going so well :cloud9:


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hey Sar :hi:

Wow, 29 weeks!! That's fantastic! :dance: It's good to hear all is going well and I hope you're able to have the home birth. One of my friends had her second child at home and said it was wonderful.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## MrsC8776

Deb111 said:


> Quick update girls - looks like we're 'probably' team :pink: NHS scan was not great and neither was the sonographer :growlmad:

Thats so exciting! Yay for team pink! Will they do another just to be sure? 



SunUp said:


> Deb... Sorry your not 100% sure, but team pink is AWESOME! :) So excited for you!
> 
> AFM, IUI2 didn't go so well, as I have felt terrible ever since :( So, I think I am out this time... :/

I'm sorry that your IUI didn't go well. :hugs:



esuzanne said:


> So at the urologist appt they took blood and now come to find out, the lab messed up and only ran the test for testosterone!! :dohh: Grrrr! So he went in today for more blood and hopefully we will know the results by Friday. I was hoping we would find out before the biopsy next week in case it will change that. His testosterone was 383.7....I have read online that the range starts somewhere at 290 and goes up. You know with the wonderful internet, I also read that even if they are in the 300s it is still not good. Any ideas?
> 
> I mean I guess we should go ahead with the biopsy and if it turns out he just needs testosterone treatment, that would be great! What do you think?! :confused:

Fingers crossed they get the results before your appt. 



Sar187 said:


> Whew I think I just made it through over 50 pages of posts in order to catch up.
> 
> Sorry I haven't been on to update lately but with trying to get the house ready for this baby, getting my gardens ready and planted to hopefully help make some extra money this year and everything else we have going on, I haven't been finding the time to sit down at the computer a whole lot.
> 
> I'd like to welcome all the new ladies, even though this isn't a place anyone really wants to be it is a great group with tons of great information!
> 
> Deb-So glad to hear things are going well for you. Those first flutters are just so amazing! You will be amazed at how fast they turn into big kicks!
> 
> LuckDragon-Congrats on the BFP! So happy for you!
> 
> rdleela- I know that many many pages back you were asking about others with blockages. My DH actually has a blockage that was caused by 2 separate hernia surgeries one at 5 months and one at 4 years old. We were told that in his case because the scar tissue would be located so high up on the vas deferens that corrective/bypass surgery would have less than 5% chance of working to allow enough sperm to pass through for a natural conception, I think it was a little over 15% chance of it working to allow some sperm but not enough for natural conception. We were told that most likely even if the surgery worked to allow some sperm we would still have to do IVF/ICSI we would just be bypassing the TESE surgery. However with the TESE surgery we were given an 85% chance of retrieving usable sperm. We decided financially and statistically we would be better off to forget the corrective/bypass surgery and go straight to the TESE. They were able to find sperm and used 1 vial for that fresh IVF/ICSI cycle(failure) and froze another 6. We used one of the frozen vials for our 2nd IVF/ICSI cycle(success) so now have 5 left.
> 
> Those of you ladies doing IUI or IVF with failed cycles, I'm so sorry and praying for good news for you soon! Failed cycles are tough and no matter what you question yourself but know that there is nothing you are doing wrong!
> 
> So glad to hear so many ladies moving along in the process and making some good progress!
> 
> AFM-I'm almost 29 weeks along now and things are still going really well. My biggest issue right now is heartburn no matter what I eat, and tums have become my best friend. I'm also having issues with sleeping well but experimenting with pillows seems to be doing the trick. I passed my gestational diabetes test and bloodwork came back normal except for slightly low iron levels. They put me on an iron supplement and told me it was nothing to worry about. We chose not to find out the sex, but Baby M is extremely active and pretty much any time I'm not moving it is. DH loves watching my belly move as the baby wiggles and kicks.
> 
> We actually have an appointment tomorrow to be screened for a possible home birth with a Certified Nurse Midwife, so may be transferring providers. The nursery is coming along and we have actually started putting stuff in there. A close friend, my cousin and my future SIL are also planning a shower for me next weekend on the 23rd so I am looking forward to that.
> 
> Sorry to those of you that I missed, hoping that things are going well!

Just wanted to say congrats :cloud9: I'm kinda new in here so I think I missed your news back when you found out.


----------



## raelynn

Deb - Team pink is great!! How sweet :) Sorry the sono wasn't great

SunUp - Praying that you'll start feeling better and this IUI will be a surprise success!

AFM - I had my baseline ultrasound and blood work this morning. Everything came back normal. My RE said my ovaries were looking 'happy' so I'm all set to start stims on Saturday. My meds were delivered today to but the Lupron trigger is mysteriously missing. That is kind of important... Left a message for my nurse tonight to see if it was even sent in the prescription and if it was I'll have to get on the phone and fight with the insurance pharmacy to fill it. Grr :growlmad:


----------



## rdleela

Sar187 said:


> rdleela- I know that many many pages back you were asking about others with blockages. My DH actually has a blockage that was caused by 2 separate hernia surgeries one at 5 months and one at 4 years old. We were told that in his case because the scar tissue would be located so high up on the vas deferens that corrective/bypass surgery would have less than 5% chance of working to allow enough sperm to pass through for a natural conception, I think it was a little over 15% chance of it working to allow some sperm but not enough for natural conception. We were told that most likely even if the surgery worked to allow some sperm we would still have to do IVF/ICSI we would just be bypassing the TESE surgery. However with the TESE surgery we were given an 85% chance of retrieving usable sperm. We decided financially and statistically we would be better off to forget the corrective/bypass surgery and go straight to the TESE. They were able to find sperm and used 1 vial for that fresh IVF/ICSI cycle(failure) and froze another 6. We used one of the frozen vials for our 2nd IVF/ICSI cycle(success) so now have 5 left.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Sar! I am so happy to hear that IVF/ICSI worked for you guys! Congrats!

I've read a few different research reports on the vasoepididymostomy (VE) micro-surgery my DH is having (they are going to attach the vas defrens directly to the epididymus), and the success rates are very similar to IVF/ICSI. And our surgeon also believes our chances for a natural conception after surgery are comparable to IVF/ICSI. And it's free and IVF/ICSI isn't! lol


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## MJ73

*Sar*, so good to see you here:flower::thumbup: How lovely that you're having a baby shower soon :cloud9: 

Wecome *Chick*, sorry you find yourself here.

*Suzanne*, my DH is on Anastrazole & in terms of libido & hormone levels all seems good. Although only a TESE will tell if it has helped with :spermy:, although our FS seems pretty sure they will be maturing more now that his levels are better.

*Sun*, you know I'm thinking of you hun, my 2ww buddy :kiss:

*raelynn*, so pleased all your tests came back good. Not long till you start now.

*Deb*, great news about team pink & sorry again that the U/S was not a pleasant experience...

AFM, I'm currently in the middle of our 2ww; this time next week I'll know if this little emby has made it :test: I'm going to test soon, on saturday I'll be 11dpo & 4 days before my expected period. I know it's early, but I just feel like I have to be doing something, so I don't go crazy :tease:


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## wibble wobble

Hey everyone :hi:

I've been away for a few days, couldn't log on to reply as I don't know my password :nope:

Deb yay a little girl :cloud9: 

Welcome Chick

Sar nice to see you, sounds like you're very busy at the minute

Raelynn yay to starting stimms saturday, I get to start mine tonight, possible egg collection 25th so 2ww will be from around 30th June onwards (my clinic always aim for 5 day blast transfer)

my heads like mush can't remember most of the 8 pages I have read!!

Canadian happy that you and hubby are making progress at last :hugs:

Sunup sorry your iui wasn't right... got my fingers crossed for you :thumbup:

hi to Snd,Rdleela, Silver,Suzanne,MrsC,Tigerlily sorry if I've missed someone didn't mean too :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## wibble wobble

Sorry Mj missed you hope the 2ww isn't driving you too insane.... I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to test early, part of me wants to so if it's bfn I'll have a chance to get used to it before af arrives but I've read stories of women getting a bfp but then on OTD it's a bfn it's not really good either way... I've got a few weeks to think about it still


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## Sar187

rdleela- I'm thinking that is why we were given such low chances of the corrective/bypass surgery working. They said that the scarring on DH would be in and around the vas deferens because of where his incisions were for the hernia surgeries. The scarring was actually worse than they expected when they went in for the TESE surgery as the urologist told me after that there was a lot of scar tissue around the epididymis as well. Hoping the surgery will work for your DH since they have given you such good odds!

MJ-2ww's are torture! I tested out my trigger and continued testing until OTD with both IVF cycles. I got my BFP at 10dpo with my 2nd cycle. Hoping 11dpo will be good news for you! Just remember not to give up hope if its BFN, I know a lot of people who didn't get BFP until OTD.

WW-my first IVF cycle was a CP. I tested out my trigger and then 2 days later at 9dpo had a BFP. By 11dpo it was gone and by OTD definite BFN. I still tested early my next cycle though. It all depends on how you think you will handle it, some people feel worse when they see the negative tests, for me it gave me something to occupy my mind with.


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## Sar187

Rae-I had to google Lupron trigger, had no idea lupron could be used for that. I had only ever seen HCG used as a trigger and Lupron used as a suppressor. Sounds a lot closer to how natural ovulation happens than with the hcg trigger. I hope they get the meds straightened out for you!


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## raelynn

Sar187 said:


> Rae-I had to google Lupron trigger, had no idea lupron could be used for that. I had only ever seen HCG used as a trigger and Lupron used as a suppressor. Sounds a lot closer to how natural ovulation happens than with the hcg trigger. I hope they get the meds straightened out for you!

Thanks Sar! I had to google it originally too :) They have me on it since I'm a high responder so I'm on low doses of meds with a lupron trigger to prevent OHSS. It is extremely unlikely to get OHSS on the lupron trigger but it doesn't support pregnancy as well as HCG so they'll give me a shot of HCG after ER and up the progesterone and estrogen support as well.

My nurse called back this morning and let me know they didn't order the lurpon yet because it is only good for 30 days so they want to order it later and also I heard in injection class today that if you aren't responding the way they want you to towards the end of stims, they may switch to an HCG trigger instead.


----------



## rdleela

Sar187 said:


> rdleela- I'm thinking that is why we were given such low chances of the corrective/bypass surgery working. They said that the scarring on DH would be in and around the vas deferens because of where his incisions were for the hernia surgeries. The scarring was actually worse than they expected when they went in for the TESE surgery as the urologist told me after that there was a lot of scar tissue around the epididymis as well. Hoping the surgery will work for your DH since they have given you such good odds!

oh, wow, on the scarring....my DH did have a hernia repair as a newborn and also un-descended testicle at around 2yrs old, both on the same side. They aren't sure on the cause of his blockage yet, won't know until they go in. But surgeon said there is a chance they can correct one side, and not the other, so really, it's up in the air until they get a good look inside. We definitely don't have any guarantees whatsoever, but a good chance! So more wait-and-see!


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## Sar187

Rae-That makes a lot of sense. Hoping the cycle goes well for you!

rdleela-DH's first surgery was the left side and the 2nd was the right side. luckily they only had to go in on one side for the TESE.


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## deafgal01

:rofl: My DH says (first thing) this morning to me "I'm so horny, I can't wait for the SA to be over with". :rofl: I guess I foresee some play time tonight... :-= I will probably be out of house when he gets home from his appointment. :wacko:

Truth of moment today. I'm nervous... :wacko: We'll find out if the medicine is really making sperms come out of there or if we need to look into surgery. :shrug:


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## tigerlily1975

Keeping everything crossed for you, deafgal :hugs:

C xx


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## Deb111

Hoping for some good news DG xx


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## deafgal01

No good news 0 count. I will be back later for proper update.


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## Stinas

DG - Im sorry!! Hopefully you can do a biopsy to find some?


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## Deb111

So sorry DG - I know it would have been fab, but it doesn't mean they're not there. Terry's meds didn't help him to produce anything in a SA, but they still found some xx


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## snd80

Aw, sorry DG! Hopefully the can find them hiding in there!!! Hugs!!


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## rdleela

Awh, so sorry DG!!! Hoping you are already working on the next step and waiting to hear more details....


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## MrsC8776

So sorry it wasn't good news DG. :hugs:


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## MoBaby

So sorry DG :(


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## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry DG. Did they have any other suggestions for you to try? I know how much you were looking forward to getting hopeful results.


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## deafgal01

Thank you ladies for your empathy and sympathy. :hugs: You're really wonderful and probably the only ones who really understand what I'm going through.

As I've said before, they still found no sperms again in the SA even though DH's been on the medicine for 3 months already. So plan of action (it seems) is that they'll do a biopsy to see what's going on- if it's blockage or if it's just sperm production not working correctly. DH decided that if it's blockage, we'll pursue the option for surgery to fix it, but if it's not blockage (just lack of sperms and stuff), then we'll seek the route for donor sperm procedures. So now, we've got to schedule the biopsy (I'm hoping we can get it done early, either end of this month or early July so that DH has me play "nurse" to him over the 4 to 5 days it takes to recover from it at home- and it takes a full up to 10 days to really feel normal again).

I was sad when DH texted me to tell me (I was on way to work somewhere). Then when I got to the home where I was going to visit with a family, I toughened up and said to myself I had to be a professional and not let my emotions show (well on the way there, I was telling myself that). As soon I walked in the door when the kid let me in their house, she gave me a HUGE hug... I totally felt loved. :cloud9:

Anyways, got home from my "dinner" date with a girlfriend after my home visit with a client, I asked DH to sit down with me and explain to me more (so I would be able to absorb everything that I had read but make sure I fully understood it too). He had drew up a picture to show/explain to me... :rofl: Here it is...

My reaction to that picture- that sperm guy looks like a dead pirate. :rofl: We both had a good laugh at that.
 



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## raelynn

DG - So sorry about your news but so glad you guys already have a plan. I LOVE that picture LOL! I laughed so hard hubby came over to see what I was laughing at and he cracked up too. Glad we can find a little humor in all of this.

AFM - I'm starting stims tomorrow night. Very nervous but excited too. I'm so worried I'm going to forget something or chicken out after I give myself the first injection.


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## Deb111

:rofl: fab picture!

So glad you have a plan - it always helps xx


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## MJ73

Oh DG, I'm so sorry too, but like Deb said that doesn't mean that there's nothing there to find. OMG! I LOVE that pic :rofl:, kinda sums up some azoo... You have the most beautiful spirit, the way you don't let things get ou down. Sending many hugs your way :hugs:


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## MJ73

Rae, yay for starting stims! :happydance: Nerve wracking, but all worth it in the end xx


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## tigerlily1975

DG: Aww, I'm sorry about the result, but it's great that you have a plan in place. Love hubby's picture, it tickled me too! 

Rae: yay, it's all go for you gal! I'm starting my first IVF cycle soon, so I'll hold your hand if you'll hold mine along the way! 

Big :hi: and :hugs: to all. I hope you're all having a good weekend. We popped up to Wimbledon today and blimey, it's windy!

C xx


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## raelynn

Thanks tiger! I could definitely use some moral support :) There are moments when I'm feeling bold and think "I can do this!" then the next I'm back to being a big chicken. Hopefully when the time rolls around tonight I can be bold!

I went in for yet another blood test this morning since my fertility clinic can't run the blood test for whatever it is I went to the lab for today. Something I have to get tested before anesthesia. :shrug: I definitely like the fertility clinic better. I've been to this lab before and they're never very personable. The tech today jabbed me, stuck on the gauze, and pushed me out the door. She didn't even ask me which arm (which I would have said the other since I was just poked in the one she used a couple days before) and didn't have me put any pressure on afterwards which is actually a big deal for me since I tend to bruise pretty badly if I don't put pressure on it. And since I'll be getting frequent blood tests now, bruising will make things worse. Ugh! So glad my clinic will be doing the rest of my testing.


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## wibble wobble

deafgal01 said:


> No good news 0 count. I will be back later for proper update.

so sorry the meds haven't produced any in an sa, but like the others have said it doesn't mean an ssr wont be successful :hugs:


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## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> Thanks tiger! I could definitely use some moral support :) There are moments when I'm feeling bold and think "I can do this!" then the next I'm back to being a big chicken. Hopefully when the time rolls around tonight I can be bold!
> 
> I went in for yet another blood test this morning since my fertility clinic can't run the blood test for whatever it is I went to the lab for today. Something I have to get tested before anesthesia. :shrug: I definitely like the fertility clinic better. I've been to this lab before and they're never very personable. The tech today jabbed me, stuck on the gauze, and pushed me out the door. She didn't even ask me which arm (which I would have said the other since I was just poked in the one she used a couple days before) and didn't have me put any pressure on afterwards which is actually a big deal for me since I tend to bruise pretty badly if I don't put pressure on it. And since I'll be getting frequent blood tests now, bruising will make things worse. Ugh! So glad my clinic will be doing the rest of my testing.

Good luck with your first injection, by tonight I will have done 26 :shock: my poor belly is full of holes and 1 bruise where I must have hit a vein. The mixing of the stimms is definitely the worst bit of the whole lot


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## deafgal01

Good luck Rae!


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## MJ73

Well girls, it's very early days but I just wanted you to know that I tested positive one a FRER this morning at 12dpo. I guess that means I'm pregnant. I'm going to try to wait till my beta on thursday before we get really excited...Although I already have a smile on my face that is here to stay for now.:blush:
Love you all xx


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## raelynn

OMG MJ!! So exciting!!! Congrats!


30 min to stims for me. Thanks for the good lucks. I'm crazy nervous and just want to get it done but since I'm supposed to do them close to the same time each night I have to wait.


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## MrsC8776

Congrats again MJ! :happydance:

raelynn~ God luck with the meds tonight. :thumbup:


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## deafgal01

Oooh MJ :yipee: I'm excited for you! :wohoo: May that line get darker in the next couple days and the beta prove baby's snuggling in good!


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## raelynn

First stims done! Woohoo! I didn't even feel either of them. I was so worked up about nothing.


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## deafgal01

:yipee: Way to go Rae! I'm glad they didn't hurt or anything.


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## MJ73

Well done Rae, if they do get a bit ouchie, placing an ice pack on the area you're about to inject can really help. I never needed it, but my mum's on clexane at the moment & I gave her this tip & it really helped her. xx


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## Deb111

Congrats again MJ - so thrilled for you both xx

Rae - great news - well done you :thumbup:


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## CanadianMaple

MJ73- Whoohoo! If there is a line there, it's positive! Congratulations!!

Raelynn- I'm glad the first injection wasn't bad at all!

DG- I hope you're feeling okay. I'm glad you have a plan though and feel like you're moving on to the next step. 

We're waiting for our next appointment on June 27th to see the RE about everything. We are leaning heavily toward using a donor, we're just trying to get our heads around it. DH seems to be coping a bit better now.


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## deafgal01

Cm- I am coping ok now. :hugs: thanks for checking. Think I just need to keep busy til the biopsy results come in but first we gotta schedule it (tomorrow dh will do that).


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## SunUp

So happy MJ!!!!!!! :) :) :)

Rae - so excited for you!


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## deafgal01

:dust: good luck to all ladies in their 2ww awaiting their bfps- cannot wait for more bfps to celebrate!!!

:dust: to all who have appts coming up to figure out their options as well! :thumbup:


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## CanadianMaple

A question for all of you who have used a donor. We only have access to two or three different banks here in Canada and I am finding the selection to be somewhat slim with ID release. How do you pick your donor? Did you go by the physical traits that matched your DH the best? Did you do something else? I found one I didn't mind, but then noticed he had his incisor teeth coming out way up high in his mouth. The other one doesn't look like DH at all, but I liked the way his personality came across.


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## tigerlily1975

I'm sorry, MJ, but I have to (again).. :happydance::dance::yipee::wohoo:

Way to go, Rae, glad it was okay :thumbup:

Sun: when do you test? Got everything crossed for you!

CM: Not long to your appointment, the waiting is the worst! It's good that you're also open to using a donor. We're still not sure about donor, but we've talked about it a lot more recently. When you first get the Azoo diagnosis, it's difficult to get your head round anything. Good luck!

DG: I hope you can get an appointment soon. As some of the other ladies have said, hopefully the medication will have helped when they do the biopsy. Fingers AND toes crossed for you! 

Big :hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## wibble wobble

MJ73 said:


> Well girls, it's very early days but I just wanted you to know that I tested positive one a FRER this morning at 12dpo. I guess that means I'm pregnant. I'm going to try to wait till my beta on thursday before we get really excited...Although I already have a smile on my face that is here to stay for now.:blush:
> Love you all xx

wow congrats hun, really made up for you xxx


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## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> First stims done! Woohoo! I didn't even feel either of them. I was so worked up about nothing.

I find the anticipation worse than the actual event too, congrats on being on your way to your bfp :hugs:


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## SunUp

MJ I am still SO EXCITED! 

:) :)

Tiger - Beta is next week. I am exactly ONE week into waiting. Last time my trigger was still in my system 10 days after trigger so the earliest I could test is probably Friday or Saturday.


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## deafgal01

CanadianMaple said:


> A question for all of you who have used a donor. We only have access to two or three different banks here in Canada and I am finding the selection to be somewhat slim with ID release. How do you pick your donor? Did you go by the physical traits that matched your DH the best? Did you do something else? I found one I didn't mind, but then noticed he had his incisor teeth coming out way up high in his mouth. The other one doesn't look like DH at all, but I liked the way his personality came across.

I've got the same questions myself- if and when I get to that point...


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## wibble wobble

CanadianMaple said:


> A question for all of you who have used a donor. We only have access to two or three different banks here in Canada and I am finding the selection to be somewhat slim with ID release. How do you pick your donor? Did you go by the physical traits that matched your DH the best? Did you do something else? I found one I didn't mind, but then noticed he had his incisor teeth coming out way up high in his mouth. The other one doesn't look like DH at all, but I liked the way his personality came across.

I didn't get photo's just a written portrait of the donor (something to do with british donors being anonymous until the child reaches 18 when they can try to find them if they want) So I have no idea if my donor is weird or normal looking

I basically went with the one I chose because he was near enough the same height/weight, has the same colour eyes/hair as hubby. I wanted the chance at getting the same colour eyes as hubby has :wacko:

At first I thought I was choosing him because he has similar hobbies as hubby and he came across as a geniunely nice guy and it sounds like he wants my child to find him in the future... Whereas the other choice I was given seemed cold and uninterested. I know hubby will be baby's daddy but at the same time I think it would be unfair to go with someone who came across as not wanting to be found.


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## raelynn

SunUp - Good luck! Keeping my fingers crossed for you and hope this next week flies by!


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## MoBaby

MJ73 said:


> Well girls, it's very early days but I just wanted you to know that I tested positive one a FRER this morning at 12dpo. I guess that means I'm pregnant. I'm going to try to wait till my beta on thursday before we get really excited...Although I already have a smile on my face that is here to stay for now.:blush:
> Love you all xx

congrats!!!


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## silverbell

MJ! Huge congratulations, my friend. I can't tell you how pleased I am to hear this. :hugs: :thumbup: :happydance: Wonderful news and gives lots of ladies on here lots of hope, I'm sure.

:wohoo:

(sorry I've been AWOL girlies)


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## snd80

:happydance: MJ!!!!!!! SOOOOO freakin' excited for you!!! Guess the :ninja: did it's job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:dance: :loopy: :yipee:


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## MrsC8776

Just a quick update... CD1 today. Baseline on Wednesday and hopefully starting clomid for IUI. FX everything looks good and theres no cysts.


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## snd80

Good luck MrsC!!! And Rae too!!! And WW! Gosh, this thread is fixing to start mooovvvviiinnnggg!!!! :happydance:

Today is CD4 for me. Start my first upped round of clomid tomorrow and u/s is set for June 29. _*HOPEFULLY*_ we will be going back to Jackson either June 30 or July 1!!!! And I have decided to let myself get excited this round!!! I may regret it, but _*I*_ gotta keep the PMA this time!!!!!! :winkwink:

:hugs: to anyone I've missed!!!


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## MrsC8776

snd80 said:


> Good luck MrsC!!! And Rae too!!! And WW! Gosh, this thread is fixing to start mooovvvviiinnnggg!!!! :happydance:
> 
> Today is CD4 for me. Start my first upped round of clomid tomorrow and u/s is set for June 29. _*HOPEFULLY*_ we will be going back to Jackson either June 30 or July 1!!!! And I have decided to let myself get excited this round!!! I may regret it, but _*I*_ gotta keep the PMA this time!!!!!! :winkwink:
> 
> :hugs: to anyone I've missed!!!

My IUI will probably be the 30th or the 1st! are you saying thats when yours might be as well? If so maybe we can be 2ww buddies. :flower:

Fx for you!


----------



## Stinas

DG - That pic is priceless lol Im sure all our OH/DH's feel like thats the way it does look. 

raelynn - ooooo glad to hear you didnt even feel them!!! Makes me feel a TON better!!!! 

MJ - :happydance::happydance:

CanadianMaple - Glad to hear DH is coming around when it comes to the DS. Glad you asked those questions because I am curious myself as well. 

MrsC - Good luck!!!!!!

SND - Im routing for you!!!


----------



## wibble wobble

snd80 said:


> Good luck MrsC!!! And Rae too!!! And WW! Gosh, this thread is fixing to start mooovvvviiinnnggg!!!! :happydance:
> 
> Today is CD4 for me. Start my first upped round of clomid tomorrow and u/s is set for June 29. _*HOPEFULLY*_ we will be going back to Jackson either June 30 or July 1!!!! And I have decided to let myself get excited this round!!! I may regret it, but _*I*_ gotta keep the PMA this time!!!!!! :winkwink:
> 
> :hugs: to anyone I've missed!!!

 My embryo transfer is going to be around that time we'll be 2wwers together :thumbup:


----------



## deafgal01

Deb- can you update the front page to say this for me....

My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. DH currently on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole. Biopsy scheduled July 5, 2012.


----------



## Deb111

All done DG :thumbup:


----------



## snd80

MrsC8776 said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> Good luck MrsC!!! And Rae too!!! And WW! Gosh, this thread is fixing to start mooovvvviiinnnggg!!!! :happydance:
> 
> Today is CD4 for me. Start my first upped round of clomid tomorrow and u/s is set for June 29. _*HOPEFULLY*_ we will be going back to Jackson either June 30 or July 1!!!! And I have decided to let myself get excited this round!!! I may regret it, but _*I*_ gotta keep the PMA this time!!!!!! :winkwink:
> 
> :hugs: to anyone I've missed!!!
> 
> My IUI will probably be the 30th or the 1st! are you saying thats when yours might be as well? If so maybe we can be 2ww buddies. :flower:
> 
> Fx for you!Click to expand...

Yes, that is _IF_ my good tube wants to work that week! Last month it was being lazy.... :haha:


----------



## raelynn

MrsC, Wibble Wobble, Snd - I think we'll all be 2wwers around the same time. We can get through the horrible wait together! ER is set for 6/28 for me right now so ET should be right around the beginning of July.

Stinas - I am seriously one of the biggest needle wimps. I cringe just thinking about them. So if I can get through them, anyone can. I expect them to sting each time but I've felt absolutely nothing so far. 

My arm is bruised and sore from my blood draw this morning which is ridiculous since I didn't even feel the needle. This tech is really good, I've had her twice now and those are the only times a blood draw hasn't stung at least a bit. Now I'm worried since both my arms are now bruised and I have to go back in again tomorrow. Ouchie! My E2 was at 120 this morning so they're lowering my already low dose of Gonal f to 75iu. Guess they were right in anticipating me as a high responder. Hopefully we can keep it in check. I go in for my first ultrasound since starting stims tomorrow! I'm excited to see the progress because I can definitely feel little twinges today.


----------



## snd80

MrsC and WW- I would LOVE to be 2ww buddies!!!!! I felt sooo left out last month! =)


----------



## MrsC8776

I'm excited for 2ww buddies! :happydance:

WW~ Thats so exciting that you are going in for ET around the same time! 

raelynn~ Yay for having a date set for ER. Sorry to hear about the bruising. That is never any fun. Good luck tomorrow!


----------



## Stinas

raelynn - that makes me feel better!! My doc told me the stomach shots do not hurt...she said getting blood drawn "hurts" more. Im most worried about the progesterone shots since that will be daily and will continue after bfp....BUT...by that point she said you will be so excited it wont make a difference....which is true. Got to do what you got to do lol


----------



## raelynn

Stinas said:


> raelynn - that makes me feel better!! My doc told me the stomach shots do not hurt...she said getting blood drawn "hurts" more. Im most worried about the progesterone shots since that will be daily and will continue after bfp....BUT...by that point she said you will be so excited it wont make a difference....which is true. Got to do what you got to do lol

Yeah, I'm worried about the trigger which is like the progesterone but my nurse said most people say they're shocked that they don't even feel that one either. My clinic does progesterone suppositories instead of injections so the trigger is the only big one for me.


----------



## Stinas

oh....mine said it hurts, but you get used to it. 
At least you just have to do the trigger once?


----------



## deafgal01

Maybe it depends on amount of fat vs muscle. Who knows?!


----------



## raelynn

Stinas said:


> oh....mine said it hurts, but you get used to it.
> At least you just have to do the trigger once?

I've seen a couple youtube videos where it didn't hurt them so I'm hoping that is how it goes :) I just trigger once but I get a separate injection of HCG in the recovery room after egg retrieval since I'm on the lupron trigger. Hopefully I'll still be out of it so I won't care at that point


----------



## MJ73

Gosh I feel lucky/blessed to have all my lovely Azoo girls :flower: Thankyou so much for all your heartfelt congratulations, it means so much to us :blush: I'll feel we can really start celebrating when I get that lovely high beta on thursday (to be honest I have constant butterflies in my tummy, I'm so nervous). Tang & I are looking forward to cheering on all Tang's Azoo Aunties... (I'm so scared to celebrate, but I feel a sense of peace in my heart about this)


----------



## SunUp

snd80 said:


> Good luck MrsC!!! And Rae too!!! And WW! Gosh, this thread is fixing to start mooovvvviiinnnggg!!!! :happydance:
> 
> Today is CD4 for me. Start my first upped round of clomid tomorrow and u/s is set for June 29. _*HOPEFULLY*_ we will be going back to Jackson either June 30 or July 1!!!! And I have decided to let myself get excited this round!!! I may regret it, but _*I*_ gotta keep the PMA this time!!!!!! :winkwink:
> 
> :hugs: to anyone I've missed!!!

Yay! Not too long now! :) Really hoping this is it for you! We will be your cheerleaders!:dance:



MrsC8776 said:


> Just a quick update... CD1 today. Baseline on Wednesday and hopefully starting clomid for IUI. FX everything looks good and theres no cysts.

Yay!!! Good luck! Let us know how things go!:happydance:



deafgal01 said:


> Deb- can you update the front page to say this for me....
> 
> My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. DH currently on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole. Biopsy scheduled July 5, 2012.

Good luck with the biopsy. Thats good that you have a date. If you have any questions, let me know. I am hoping for good news from you!:hugs::hugs:


----------



## Deb111

Good luck for your scan tomorrow rae!


----------



## deafgal01

good luck Rae!!!!!


----------



## deafgal01

SunUp said:


> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> Deb- can you update the front page to say this for me....
> 
> My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. DH currently on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole. Biopsy scheduled July 5, 2012.
> 
> Good luck with the biopsy. Thats good that you have a date. If you have any questions, let me know. I am hoping for good news from you!:hugs::hugs:Click to expand...


Actually, how do I explain to my girlfriends/other bnb ladies about what they'll do exactly with the biopsy? One of my ladies in my journal asked how that would work in figuring out if it's a blockage issue or not. Best I could do was say that they'll be making an incision in one of the testes and gathering tissue samples to test in the lab... :shrug: I'd appreciate your help in explaining this for my friends. :hugs:


----------



## SunUp

deafgal01 said:


> SunUp said:
> 
> 
> Actually, how do I explain to my girlfriends/other bnb ladies about what they'll do exactly with the biopsy? One of my ladies in my journal asked how that would work in figuring out if it's a blockage issue or not. Best I could do was say that they'll be making an incision in one of the testes and gathering tissue samples to test in the lab... :shrug: I'd appreciate your help in explaining this for my friends. :hugs:
> 
> 
> It is a small incision, where they take a small piece of tissue directly from the site, then stitch it up. They take the sample and put it under a microscope to identify if there are any sperm. If there are a BUNCH of sperm then it is usually thought to be a blockage. The only 100% sure way to tell if it is a blockage is actually identifying a blockage, but this actually skips those painful tests and jumps right to the best question - is there actually sperm. If there is a small amount of sperm, it is thought to not be a blockage, and if there is no sperm, then you have options for mTese. If they find ANY sperm, it can be used for ICSI, however testicular sperm doesn't do well frozen, so they would have to time your IVF cycle and get more sperm then... at least this is the case most of the time.Click to expand...


----------



## deafgal01

Thanks!!!!! I'm gonna copy and paste that to my journal for the ladies over there. :thumbup: That helps a lot!


----------



## raelynn

Well I didn't get any measurements today (boo!) but the doc did count 12 follicles on one side and 15 on the other. My e2 is up to 280 so I'm staying on my low doses of meds. I start Ganirelix tomorrow morning (and every morning after) to keep from ovulating so I must be progressing well. I go back in Thursday for my next scan. I'm bloaty and crampy and can definitely tell there is something going on down there. I also had a terrible headache all day, I'm assuming it is a reaction to one of the drugs. I'm already ready to be done and I still have a week to go if we end up sticking to original trigger date.


----------



## deafgal01

Rae- sounds like there's good progress! Too bad they didn't measure, that would have been interesting. Good luck!


----------



## tigerlily1975

Wow, Rae! That all sounds great! Sorry to hear about the side-effects, I hope they're not too bad. Can you believe you're finally almost there? Exciting!

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## raelynn

Tiger - No, I can't believe it. But I'm so ready to just get to baby time :)


----------



## MrsC8776

raelynn~ I'm glad things are going well. Good luck tomorrow. :thumbup:

AFM~ I had my baseline done today to see if I could start the clomid. Everything looked good. Although the lady doing the u/s couldn't find my right "tube" as she called it. I knew she wasn't going far enough over but she wouldn't listen. She just kept saying it was hiding. :dohh: A different dr came in and she found it right away. Everything looked good so I can get started. I took my first clomid today and as my sig. says I'll take it until CD7. I'll go back on the 29th (CD12) to see if we are ready for IUI or not.


----------



## raelynn

Yay for getting started MrsC!! Will be praying things go well for you!

Off to blood draw and ultrasound for me...


----------



## deafgal01

Good luck MrsC

Good luck Rae :dust:


----------



## esuzanne

Hi friends! I have been away for a several days...I was just gearing up for DH biopsy yesterday. The procedure went well and he is recovering great! Ok so, the Urologist went into one testicle and did not find any sperm. The embryologist took some tissue back to the lab to examine it under a much stronger microscope. We re not expecting her to find much from it...I think we have just kind of accepted what we have been given. Kinda anyways haha. Ok so I have a few questions I would like your thoughts on please! 

Do you think they should have looked in the other testicle? Does this sound the same as Mtese? I am just so confused!! We are going to have the bloodtest for Klinefelters done, so that atleast we will have an exact reason and since the levels of his hormones seem to lead me to believe thats what it is. If not, I guess we will maybe see a different doctor, but we will cross that bridge when we get there!

I see there is a congratulations in order!! Yay!! I am so glad to see many of you moving forward and getting on with the process! :happydance: You all give me hope and help remind me that it is all worth it!


----------



## cosita

Hi esuzanne, I'm not really sure what they should do about going to another testicle but my understanding is that if they don't find it in one, they may well find it in the other. So yeah, I guess they should have gone. In our case, they found some sperm (which turns out to be immature so we don't know if its any good until we do ICSI) so they didn't go to the other testicle. I know they can go to the other one without making another incision, they make some kind of tunnel on the inside, are you sure they didn't do that?
After the summer we are going to get a second opinion in another clinic even if it means travelling, it can't hurt. I know it seems like they have come such a long way in all this research and they have, in a short space of time but they still have a long way to go into 'why' this happens to our husbands. We have no reason why, genetic tests are fine, so that is why we are going to go to a bigger busier clinic hoping they might have had some more cases like our own. 
It feels like clutching at straws sometimes but why not, its a big part of our lives. 

To everyone else, love the positive vibes and talk of 2ww!! :thumbup:


----------



## esuzanne

cosita said:


> Hi esuzanne, I'm not really sure what they should do about going to another testicle but my understanding is that if they don't find it in one, they may well find it in the other. So yeah, I guess they should have gone. In our case, they found some sperm (which turns out to be immature so we don't know if its any good until we do ICSI) so they didn't go to the other testicle. I know they can go to the other one without making another incision, they make some kind of tunnel on the inside, are you sure they didn't do that?
> After the summer we are going to get a second opinion in another clinic even if it means travelling, it can't hurt. I know it seems like they have come such a long way in all this research and they have, in a short space of time but they still have a long way to go into 'why' this happens to our husbands. We have no reason why, genetic tests are fine, so that is why we are going to go to a bigger busier clinic hoping they might have had some more cases like our own.
> It feels like clutching at straws sometimes but why not, its a big part of our lives.
> 
> To everyone else, love the positive vibes and talk of 2ww!! :thumbup:

Thanks!! I am not sure if they did the tunnel thing or not but I will definitely find out! I am right there with you, we are willing to do whatever we have to, to be sure that there isnt a chance. We just wouldnt feel right if we didnt know! I mean no matter what, I will always hope for a little miracle when we least expect it, but hey 20 years ago they would have just told all of us--sorry youve hit then end of the road here. If our genetic tests come back negative, then without a doubt we will go somewhere else. We don't get our hopes up really, if they found anything it would just be a huge surprise. But there is always hope! :) Good luck on the second opinion!!


----------



## Sar187

DG-Sorry to see the SA was 0 again, but as all the other ladies have said, that doesn't mean they won't find something with the biopsy. I know someone said frozen Testicular sperm doesn't do as well with IVF/ICSI, but depending on how large the sperm samples are they get it can actually help. They had 7 vials of sperm from DH (I have no idea how many sperm per vial) our first cycle they used 13 fresh sperm for my 13 eggs and had 2 embryos left by day 3 that didn't take. cycle 2 they used 13 frozen/thawed sperm(from 1 vial) and we had 3 embryos left by day 3 and one took. From research I did and questions i asked even with testicular sperm if the sample is large enough there is actually very little difference between fresh and frozen, because the thawing process can actually help weed out the weaker sperm. The issue with frozen is with small samples because there is a higher chance not enough sperm will make it...i hope that makes sense. 

MJ-Huge congratulations! I can't wait to hear a wonderful beta number from you!

Rae-I had a friend of the family who is a nurse give me my trigger shot for both cycles. cycle 1 I didn't feel at all cycle 2 pinched a little and I had a sore spot for a couple days afterwards. I had progesterone suppositories as well in the form of endometrin, I had to do them 3 times a day. They gave me the choice and I didn't want to deal with more injections. The worst thing about the suppositories is the constant discharge. 

I know I saw someone asking about the progesterone injections and while I haven't personally done them, I can give a few hints from what I have gathered from others and what my nurse told me in case I was put on them. Most PIO has to be refrigerated so make sure to set it out for about a half hour ahead of time to get it to room temperature or you can sit with the bottle in the crook of your arm or armpit to help warm it faster. Icing beforehand and heating afterwards is supposed to help because the icing numbs the area and heating helps to disburse the oil, and prevent painful lumps, I have seen a lot of women say hot showers/massaging the area afterward can help too. My nurse also recommended if I did the shot to alternate sides each day so one side would have time to heal a little in between injections.

esuzanne-when they did the TESE on my DH they went in with the plan to take from the left side, but said if they didn't feel the tissue there was going to contain sperm they would try the right side. not sure if that helps any. 

Those of you still in the 2ww or about to be starting cycles best of luck!

AFM-We had our 1st appointment with our midwife last week and officially got approved to do a home birth! The appointment was great and DH and I both felt it was much less rushed than our appointments with the OB. She also checked the babies position and as I was thinking it is currently head down(it really likes to kick me in the ribs lately). Our next appointment will be next Friday.


----------



## Deb111

Gosh - where to start with so much going on!

MrsC - great news you're getting started - good luck hun

Cosita - I agree, this is such a big deal, you have to do whatever you can to rule out your chances and know you gave it everything. Then if you have to move, you know you are doing so in the knowledge that you've exhausted other opportunities

esuzanne - with my hubby, the NHS did a random biopsy - a few samples from each testicle. The results came back that they had found 3 - and all of them were on the same side. Whilst that didn't rule out that there were some on the other side (as the biopsy only takes TINY samples) it was enough for Mr Rasay to make the decision to go in on that side only for the mTESE. He said due to hubby's low testosterone, he didnt want to go in both sides as the less testicular tissue there is, the less testosterone it can produce and he didn't want to compromise that any more than it already was. Hope that helps and sorry the biopsy didn't give you better news xx


----------



## raelynn

Sar - Thanks! My nurse said some people don't even feel the trigger too so it is nice to hear that it is not too bad. I'm so glad my sis is doing it because I can't even bring myself to put hardly any pressure on the sub q injections, there is no way I could jab that giant trigger needle in. Yikes! You must be so excited about setting up your birth plan. So glad things are going well for you!

I had a little freak out today because I didn't think I was progressing the way I should. All my follicles are still under 10mm so my clinic doesn't even bother measuring them at that point. I thought they should be bigger by now but I have calmed myself down and realize if it wasn't working they would have changed my meds around and would not be telling me every appointment that things are still going great. I had 17 follicles counted today and my e2 was 433. I go in again on Saturday. I left a message with my nurse to see if they have an idea if I'll be sticking with my original trigger date of Tuesday since I only have enough ganirelix to last until Monday and we still haven't ordered my trigger meds. I seem to worry about every step of this process.


----------



## deafgal01

Sar- that makes sense. Thanks.

I'm doing good. Keeping busy with stuff. :shrug:

How's all of you guys handling your journeys?


----------



## luckdragon

hi girls hope your all ok, just wanted to drop in and let you all know my scan went fine  one happy moving little bean seen, and heartbeat seen as well  

xxxxx


----------



## Deb111

Fabulous news luckdragon :cloud9:

To whoever was asking about trigger shots - I didn't even feel mine :thumbup:

hope everyone else is progressing well xx


----------



## Stinas

luckdragon - Thats wonderful!!! Congrats!!!


----------



## deafgal01

Luck- :wohoo: congrats!!!!


----------



## Sar187

Luck-Awesome news! So glad to hear things are looking good!


----------



## raelynn

Congrats Luckdragon!


----------



## BrandyRelax

Hi All,

I'm new - I thought I'd do a brief intro about where I am in the journey... 

We started TTC in November 2011, and in April 2012 got a referral to the fertility clinic and she ordered a bloodtest for me and a SA for my hubby.

About 2 weeks ago we got the news from our Family doctor that my hubby's SA came back with ZERO sperm. We went to the fertility clinic last week, and the doctor at the fertility clinic obviously didn't have any more information, so we're in the stage of preliminary testing - so blood tests and a second SA for the hubby and bloodwork, pap, and HSG test.

So we're in the waiting phase - well - I hear there's lots of waiting throughout any process related to fertility issues, so it's probably normal.

Glad to see so much success with Azoo, and hopefully I'll be a success story too! 

Brandy


----------



## wibble wobble

Hi Brandy welcome to the thread so sorry you have found yourself in this situation though

just wanted to pop on quick to send everyone virtual ((((hugs))))

I had a scan yesterday my follies aren't quite big enough for collection yet so an extra 3 days of stimming and a re scan Monday.... got 25 follies all together the biggest is 14mm so a bit of growing left to do egg collection should be wednesday hopefully


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: sorry to see a new member join the boat but you def have come to the right place, brandy!

Good luck with your follicles! Hope they are ripe for harvest next week, wibble!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi Brandy! I'm glad you found your way over here. You'll get lots of support in here and it's a fast moving thread! If you have any questions about testing, what certain things mean and what to expect, please ask away.

Girls, I've been lurking but have nothing to report. Things have been really tough here. DH and I are letting the stress get to us and I need to get us into counseling. It sounds like he isn't even sure if he is open to using a donor now, he feels like I am pressuring him. I'm feeling like everything is shattering all around me.


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh Canadian- that's never fun! :hugs: Counseling can be helpful when you have the right person counseling you. :hugs: Good luck!


----------



## MoBaby

Hey brandy! Sorry you are here but welcome! Wibble thats great! Luck: congrats thats fantastic!

CM: sooo sorry :( stress is so hard. I hope you guys can work through this. I hope he opens up about donor sperm.


----------



## MrsC8776

luckdragon said:


> hi girls hope your all ok, just wanted to drop in and let you all know my scan went fine  one happy moving little bean seen, and heartbeat seen as well
> 
> xxxxx

Congrats! 



BrandyRelax said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm new - I thought I'd do a brief intro about where I am in the journey...
> 
> We started TTC in November 2011, and in April 2012 got a referral to the fertility clinic and she ordered a bloodtest for me and a SA for my hubby.
> 
> About 2 weeks ago we got the news from our Family doctor that my hubby's SA came back with ZERO sperm. We went to the fertility clinic last week, and the doctor at the fertility clinic obviously didn't have any more information, so we're in the stage of preliminary testing - so blood tests and a second SA for the hubby and bloodwork, pap, and HSG test.
> 
> So we're in the waiting phase - well - I hear there's lots of waiting throughout any process related to fertility issues, so it's probably normal.
> 
> Glad to see so much success with Azoo, and hopefully I'll be a success story too!
> 
> Brandy

Sorry you have found yourself here but with that said this is a great place to be for support. I hope the rest of the testing goes well. 



wibble wobble said:


> Hi Brandy welcome to the thread so sorry you have found yourself in this situation though
> 
> just wanted to pop on quick to send everyone virtual ((((hugs))))
> 
> I had a scan yesterday my follies aren't quite big enough for collection yet so an extra 3 days of stimming and a re scan Monday.... got 25 follies all together the biggest is 14mm so a bit of growing left to do egg collection should be wednesday hopefully

You are almost finished! Fx the scan looks great on Monday. 



CanadianMaple said:


> Hi Brandy! I'm glad you found your way over here. You'll get lots of support in here and it's a fast moving thread! If you have any questions about testing, what certain things mean and what to expect, please ask away.
> 
> Girls, I've been lurking but have nothing to report. Things have been really tough here. DH and I are letting the stress get to us and I need to get us into counseling. It sounds like he isn't even sure if he is open to using a donor now, he feels like I am pressuring him. I'm feeling like everything is shattering all around me.

:hugs: Sorry things are tough right now. Sometimes clinics offer counseling to couples. You should check into it because the people they recommend know all about infertility and using a donor.


----------



## raelynn

Brandy - So sorry you're dealing with azoo but glad you found this board. The women here are awesome and very supportive.

Wibble Wibble - Not long now! Hoping your follicles grow and your next scan is great!

CM - So sorry you both are still struggling. I think counseling is a great idea to try and help you get through this.

AFM - I finally had some measurable follicles on Saturday. My right side is a bit ahead with most hovering around 10mm. They measured 3 at 10 and 1 at 11 Saturday. Left is a little behind with the largest at 8. I go back in Monday so hopefully they keep progressing. E2 Has been pretty consistently climbing 739 on Saturday and they found my missing follicles. They counted 33 and my doc said I'd have plenty.


----------



## MrsC8776

raelynn~ That is great news! So many follicles. Fx for you.


----------



## Deb111

Welcome Brandy - as the others have said - so sorry you've found yourself here, but you really are in the best place.

Rae and Wibble - swo many follicles!!! WOW!! Fingers crossed they keep growing nicely

CM - so sorry your dh is struggling so much with this. I remember when we first found out, hubby was open to at least sitting down and discussing donor sperm, which is all I needed at that point; just knowing there was a back-up option if we needed it, but his aunt changed his mind and it really messed my head up

Sending hugs to everyone else xx


----------



## Stinas

BrandyRelax - Soooo sorry to see you here, but glad you found us! This thread is an AMAZING support system! Lots of wonderful ladies here. 

Canadian - Im sorry your having such a rough time. Its a very tough thing to go through and im glad to see you guys are going to see someone about it. It might help a lot to have someone else sort through whats really holding him back from using the donor sperm. I wish you both the best of luck and hope dh opens up to it. Maybe just getting a nudge from an outsider could do the trick. 

raelynn - thats great news!!!

Hope everyone else is doing well!!!

As for me...nothing to report. July 9th biopsy is creeping up on us! I have confidence that it will turn out ok, but am still trying to bring up the whole worst case scenario to DH. For me I wouldnt even think twice about using donor sperm, but we never really talked about it. I know no matter what he would be upset about it, but what isnt there to be upset about when it comes to azoo, the whole thing just sucks, but we cried and lets get over it now and get down to business. 
How did you ladies bring it up to DH/OH's? I just want to be fully prepared for anything and want to stay on the highway and not slow down. 
I have brought it up to DH a few times but his answer is always "lets cross that bridge if we get there". Its annoying.


----------



## raelynn

Stinas - My hubby was exactly the same way, not wanting to think about anything until we absolutely had to. One night I just sat him down and said that I realize we both deal with things in very different ways (I want to plan all possible scenarios, he wants to wait and see) but that it was really hard for me to go into something having no plan. We came to an agreement to discuss things for 10 min or so every night so it was a gradual thing. Basically, it was a very real possibility that they would find nothing and I wanted us to be prepared so regardless of the outcome, we wouldn't be completely derailed. I made sure to let him know that no matter what, he would always be the father.


----------



## MJ73

Hi all, how is everyone? Sending hugs out to everyone.

luckdragon, congrats, what an awesome experience!

Brandy, so sorry you've found yourself here, but this is a great, supportive group. Let us know if you have any questions.

Rae and Wibble that's great that you're both growing such lovely follies.

CM, I think the counselling is a great idea, Simon & I went to about 5 or 6 counselling sessions through our IVF & found it really helpful. Is there someone who specialises in IVF counselling near you? Good luck hun & many hugs your way :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

Thanks for the support. We did see the counselor through our clinic on April, but he just wanted to push donor sperm on us. He didn't really listen to us. 

We may just find a general marriage counselor. We've been through a lot in the past 11 1/2 months of marriage. 

We see the RE on Wednesday and may ask if there is another counselor we can see. If not, we'll find one on our own. It's not all donor sperm related, this whole process has deeply affected us as a new couple. He said with DS, he gets really excited some days and some days so incredibly sad that I will not be having his biochild. 

Thanks for the support.


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## Step Mummy

Hi Canadian, I am so sorry you are both having such a tough time. I know when you are expecting those first months of marriage to be great, you actually end up dealing with something to huge and painful.

It is hard to go through it, you each feel different things and sometimes it is hard to tell my DH what I am feeling. We had councelling, but I have to say I was very much keeping everything inside, I am not very good at sharing my woes. It's difficult to share but you have to remember, you are going through this journey together, and hopefully over time when you come out the otherside you will be stronger for it.

I hope things settle down for you and you can find someone who can help you both. Good luck. x


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## deafgal01

Canadian- I hope you find someone who would be a good couple counselor for both your DH and you. :hugs:

Stinas- the biopsy is around the corner for both of us. :hugs: Good luck with that!

MJ- thanks for asking. I'm doing just fine. I knew and was expecting AF and she did come. I'm just waiting for next appt to get here- July 5th biopsy. Slightly nervous about that, I'm expecting to hear they didn't find sperms or lack of good quality so I won't be too disappointed, but if it's blockage issue rather, then I'll be somewhat hopeful but for now I'll just expect that it's a sperm issue and that we'll have to seek donor sperm for getting what we want. :wacko: It's a nutty journey we all have to take.

Anyone know how long they waited for the biopsy procedure to get done? We have to be there 9 am for check in and then the surgery is at 11 I think (or noon). I know he'll be in recovery for a little bit after- so he'll go home with me after that point. :shrug: Thinking of packing a entertainment bag for myself- book, Zach's ipad, and my phone... It'll be a long day.


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## Step Mummy

It is day one for me again, go 6, I hope this one finally works!!!

Normally I inject day 3, 5, 7, and poss 9 if necessary, but this month they are doubling me up, so I am injecting from day 4 until day 11 this month! Lets hope this idea works!

I will keep you informed once I have had my first scan this month.

To those who were asking about injecting a couple of days ago, I have only ever had 2 injections that stung other than that I would say they are quite painless, so really don't worry -the thought is worse than doing it!


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## BrandyRelax

Hi All - it's so weird - I'm reading all of your messages about using Donor Sperm, and I just don't think I could do it. Perhaps I'm just too early in the process, or that I'm not someone who has always wanted to have kids - I've always wanted to be married, and I have a good career, but when I was little, it was never my goal in life to be a mom - I know, it's weird.

Perhaps it's just fear of the unknown - I know my husband is an amazing guy, he balances me out, and our kids would have a really great balanced personality, but what do I know about the donor sperm? I don't know anyone like my hubby that I'd want to ask for a contribution, and if you can't talk to the person when it's anonymous, how do you guage that? 

But, like I said, perhaps it's just too early in the process, and as I progress, I'll feel differently.

But when your hubby says he doesn't want to use donor sperm, can you say that you'd use donor eggs, if he had sperm and you had something wrong with your eggs? (of course, I didn't get through all 78 pages of this thread, so this may have been discussed a while ago, it's probably a pretty common topic!) :)

Other than that - my current update is I'm on CD1 - so onwards to the HSG test on CD8, and I'll do my CD2-4 testing next month, because I'm on vacation in the US this week, so can't really do any OHIP covered bloodwork here! :)

Brandy


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## deafgal01

Brandy- I like to think that I'd use donor eggs if there was a problem with mine. :shrug: Not sure if I would really go thru with it. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea of donor sperm since it seems more and more like a possibility I would have to take in order to experience being pregnant. I know a while ago when this was discussed, we put more impression on the fact that it's us as a couple that experience the pregnancy together (and then raise that baby when it's born) that makes us a parent rather than the genes of the baby. So what makes a parent a parent- is the fact the experiences and quality of morals/values we teach them from the time they're born (or adopted into the family).


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## Deb111

Step mummy - good luck! :thumbup:

Brandy - donor sperm may not be for you, but I do think it is maybe too early for you to be considering it as well. I'm as sure as I can be (without ever having to make that decision) that I would have used donor eggs of necessary. In fact when my AMH came back really low for my age, I thought the irony might end up being that we found sperm but had to use donor eggs :dohh: I do think it's different for a woman though - even if you use donor eggs, you still get to see the :bfp: feel the baby inside you, give birth

I know that if it had come to it, we would have sat down and discussed a donor embryo. Hubby seemed happier with that than the idea of donor sperm.

DG - is your dh having a general or a local anasthetic? With the random biopsy / local anasthetic, he was allowed to go about an hour or so after, but we were longer because he was in a lot of pain. With the mTESE / general anasthetic, he went down for the op at about 9am and I went down at about 10.30 I think and we were both able to leave by 3 - in fact I think we could have left sooner but hubbys was sick after the anasthetic and we were also waiting for our lift.


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## CanadianMaple

Brandy, at one point, I was totally against for using a donor. But once we realized DH has testicular failure and the odds of finding sperm was low, we needed to consider other options. For us, we would have had to be in the middle of an IVF cycle the day they would do his biopsy, and if we were against using a donor, we would have had to cancel the egg retrieval and be out the total cost of the cycle and surgery. (~$15,000) We were given about a 1 in 5 chance of having a successful pregnancy. It's a lot of money to pay back on top of a lot of pain.

DH is 44 in September. We don't have time to wait years for an adoption. His family didn't have a really positive adoption experience. His sister has FAS and the birth mother lied about her alcohol and drug consumption and his sister, even now at 40, is very difficult to deal with. Even his parents told us to think hard about it, especially since I have a 4 year old from another relationship. 

We look at using a donor as a 1/2 adoption, plus we don't have to trust someone to make the same choices as we would during the pregnancy. He or she would still have half of our genes, be related to my son, and we would still get the whole pregnancy/birth/newborn bonding.

My husband is still struggling because he is more worried about the child resenting him in the future. He's scared the child will not see him as the "real dad" and always be wanting to know the donor. He is still grieving the child he thought he would have with me. He didn't start to grieve until about a month ago, when the urologist told him how low his odds were in having a bio child. I had been reading about it for months and am further ahead in the grieving process.

There are perks to donor sperm. We would just do IUI. Less invasive, cheaper and would happen quicker for us. DH is Catholic and struggled about leftover embryos. He is raising my child as his own and we know he can love a non bio child and how my son already takes after him. My son looks a lot like me, so strangers just assume he looks more like me. We all have blue eyes and are fair skinned.

I know I am feeling defensive. I probably shouldn't lurk when I am having a bad week. I just wanted to clarify why we are mulling over the idea of using a donor. Would I use donor eggs? I hadn't thought a lot about it, but I think I would. It would take time to process, just like this whole azoo nightmare has.

It's definitely early in your journey. You may have to really look at options you never would have considered. Many azoo families use donors or adopt. It really depends where you draw the line with infertility treatments, surgeries and costs where you end up in all of this.


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## deafgal01

Dee- they are doing general on him, so I gotta drive him home after and he can't drive until the next day.

Canadian- that's a very good valid point. We as wives seem to be further along in the process while the guys linger behind taking it step by step. As for your husband's worry about the child "resenting" him and searching for the real father of his genes... I worry about that too. I guess at this point, it depends on what kind of information you would have- and what they would allow the child to have access to. Some donors might not want to be found/known to their donor sperm/child. That's something I'm still struggling with- how much info to share with the child and when... Do you think the family might slip up and say something about donor sperm or would you be able to not say anything about it until the child reaches a certain age when we think they're capable of handling that sort of information or need to know?


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## CanadianMaple

deafgal01- We spoke to the infertility psychologist back in April, before we were really ready to even think about using a donor, and he gave us lots of ideas. I didn't necessarily agree with him on all points, but for the most part it made sense. (He suggested not finding out a lot about the donor, but I can't even buy a dishwasher without researching it!). I can PM you what I wrote down after that appointment. 

He pretty much said that if you tell anyone, you tell only a very small pocket of people. Remind them that they need to stay quiet about it for the child's best interests, until you tell the child. Most times, you tell the child slowly over years, age appropriate stuff, and go from there.

Actually, I just finished reading a fantastic book about it. It's called "Helping the Stork" and it goes over everything. DH is reading it right now.


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## deafgal01

Canadian- I'd love it if you'd share your notes with me about what the psychologist mentioned. I'll put that book on my amazon list in case I decide to buy it after we find out DH's diagnosis with the biopsy. Not much longer to wait. :shock: 1 week (almost only 1 week away).

I guess not knowing the donor information varies from person to person. I like to know as much as possible about their health and things but I don't know. Yeah I still have a way to go before I'm ready for any donor sperm both mentally and emotionally. I can see/understand why people are told/suggested to have "love/sex" time after iui or anything related to putting sperms/embryos in to make sure you "reconnect" with your spouse over the whole thing.


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## Stinas

deafgal01 - Im nervous too! Its right around the corner. I dont like not knowing! Even with the docs having high hopes that there is sperm, Im just scared. This is the fork in the road and will tell us which path we are taking. Crazy. I will be thinking of you! Sperm on the brain! lol

What do you ladies think about egg sharing? I read a couple articles about it and im interested. My doc said she thinks I will produce a lot of eggs since apparently I have mild PCOS( another thing that stupid ob I went to didnt seem to mention). I was thinking...if I do produce a whole bunch....why not donate some? I read somewhere you only need to give 8. So If I produce a lot, why not share with someone that needs them? I am really leaning towards it. I figure a lot of us azoo ladies need sperm...im sure there are tons of ladies needing eggs. I feel like what if there was no one there to give sperm, a lot of us would be out of luck. I cant imagine going through this and not having any options....I would be devastated. 
Just curious on your opinions. Its just something I have been tossing around in my head...only person I brought it up to is my mom and she thinks it would be a good idea if I had more than enough for myself.


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## SunUp

Hey Brandy- I know where you are right now...
I felt the same, there was no way.
Here I am, months and months TTC and now am working on planning Donor IUI #3. 
It sucked at first, but now I couldn't care less. It WILL BE my husbands child. Bottom line.

It does take a while to get - even somewhat ok with- the idea of donor, but to me it was a better option than going straight to adoption. I don't want to be able to have someone else decide how to do things during pregnancy and possibly back out at the end. That being said, I do love adoption and think its great, but I think trying for a pregnancy is better for me, and DH.

Also, yes, I would use DE, and I would consider donating eggs, if I got to that point with IVF. Someone amazing out there has given me the gift of my child that I don't even have yet, and for that I am so grateful... to be able to give that gift to another couple in the same situation (just reverse) as us would be wonderful.:flow:

:-k Just my 2 cents:flower:


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## BrandyRelax

CanadianMaple said:


> Brandy, at one point, I was totally against for using a donor. But once we realized DH has testicular failure and the odds of finding sperm was low, we needed to consider other options. For us, we would have had to be in the middle of an IVF cycle the day they would do his biopsy, and if we were against using a donor, we would have had to cancel the egg retrieval and be out the total cost of the cycle and surgery. (~$15,000) We were given about a 1 in 5 chance of having a successful pregnancy. It's a lot of money to pay back on top of a lot of pain.
> 
> DH is 44 in September. We don't have time to wait years for an adoption. His family didn't have a really positive adoption experience. His sister has FAS and the birth mother lied about her alcohol and drug consumption and his sister, even now at 40, is very difficult to deal with. Even his parents told us to think hard about it, especially since I have a 4 year old from another relationship.
> 
> We look at using a donor as a 1/2 adoption, plus we don't have to trust someone to make the same choices as we would during the pregnancy. He or she would still have half of our genes, be related to my son, and we would still get the whole pregnancy/birth/newborn bonding.
> 
> My husband is still struggling because he is more worried about the child resenting him in the future. He's scared the child will not see him as the "real dad" and always be wanting to know the donor. He is still grieving the child he thought he would have with me. He didn't start to grieve until about a month ago, when the urologist told him how low his odds were in having a bio child. I had been reading about it for months and am further ahead in the grieving process.
> 
> There are perks to donor sperm. We would just do IUI. Less invasive, cheaper and would happen quicker for us. DH is Catholic and struggled about leftover embryos. He is raising my child as his own and we know he can love a non bio child and how my son already takes after him. My son looks a lot like me, so strangers just assume he looks more like me. We all have blue eyes and are fair skinned.
> 
> I know I am feeling defensive. I probably shouldn't lurk when I am having a bad week. I just wanted to clarify why we are mulling over the idea of using a donor. Would I use donor eggs? I hadn't thought a lot about it, but I think I would. It would take time to process, just like this whole azoo nightmare has.
> 
> It's definitely early in your journey. You may have to really look at options you never would have considered. Many azoo families use donors or adopt. It really depends where you draw the line with infertility treatments, surgeries and costs where you end up in all of this.


I hadn't really thought about it being a 1/2 adoption. That's a whole different take on the issue - it's really an adoption decision, not that you're trying to replace DH, but together you're adopting... Definitely something I'm going to have to think about.


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## Sar187

Brandy-sorry you find yourself here, but you have come to a great group!

DG-DH had general anesthetic for his surgery as well, prep was probably 30-40 minutes, the surgery itself took about 45 minutes, then he was in stage one recovery for a little over an hour and in stage 2 recovery for a little over an hour. So altogether it was probably 3.5 to 4 hours.


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## Deb111

CM - I think the men are always a bit behind us in getting their heads around this - we seem to do so much research and chatting on here that we seem to move on quicker. It also seems to be a recurrent thing in here that the women like to think ahead and have plans and a back up plan, whereas the men seem to want to wait and see before thinking of the next step. I guess the whole 'men are from mars; women are from venus' thing is true!

Stinas - I would certainly have considered egg sharing - but it was never a possibility because of my age and my low AMH meant that I didn't get many eggs either


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## raelynn

Well I finally got some news today. Trigger should be either tomorrow or Thursday. Woah! I can't believe it is already here! E2 was 1880 today and they doubled my dose of gonal f tonight (to 150iu) I guess to give my slower follicles a little push to catch up. I'm really excited but nervous too!


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: RAE :dust: good luck girl! May you implant a baby for us azoo aunts to get excited over!!!!!!


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## CanadianMaple

Good Luck Rae! I can't believe how quick your journey has gone!

Angela/Step Mummy- I hope this cycle is it for you. It sounds like it could be a good protocol for this cycle!

We are seeing our RE today to go over all the info he has gathered on us since January. DH pretty much said last night that he doesn't want to even try the TESA, and the mTESE is ruled out since we would have to do it on the day of an ER. So, once we feel 100% sure about using a donor, we will probably move on to IUI. I'm on CD2, so it's good timing for any testing they may have to do on me this cycle. So, it seems like we are making progress.

That being said, I am extremely nervous and excited.


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## raelynn

So I finally saw my doc for the morning ultrasounds and got the news. I'm triggering tonight! I can't believe it is finally here! My left ovary is still being 'lazy' but we're counting on the right to have at least a few good eggs. Doctor says we probably won't have a lot but hopefully they'll be good quality. We're waiting on a call to sort out some confusion around hubby's TESE date but otherwise I'm very excited (and of course nervous). ER is Friday


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## deafgal01

Good luck Rae! :wohoo: C'mon eggies- make us a baby for Rae! We want another azoo baby to be excited over!

Canadian- agreed... Hope you can agree 100% (and your man too) on the donor. Good luck with any testing that might occur this cycle.


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## Deb111

Great news Rae - good luck :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Well we're off to see Mr Ramsay again in 3 weeks. Hubby's mood has been so low again lately that I want to know whether, if in future we want to try for another baby and the frozen sperm doesn't survive, he would do another mTESE - I don't know whether it's possible or recommended but if it's a definite no, then we may as well start getting something sorted with the testosterone replacement.

I also made him go and see his GP yesterday who is getting his thyroid levels checked to see if his meds need altering and is doing a couple of other blood tests too.

I hate it when he goes through stages like this - I feel like I'm in this on my own again right now - he's so detached from me and our life in general when he's like this :nope: Hopefully this 'episode' wont last too long - I'm sure it doesn't help that he works early shifts so takes his thyoid meds at 2am on days he's working and about 9am on days he's not. I need to check if he could take them at night :shrug:

I tried to make light of it the other night and told him that I have a new pregnancy symptom and that he'd better sleep with one eye open else I might jump on him! :sex: but he wont come near me and of course now he has the added excuse of it not feeling right when I'm pregnant :shrug: :nope:

Bloody azoospermia still haunts you and rears it's ugly head even when things are going well :baby: I was thinking earlier ... I wonder how many pregnant women there are out there who haven't had :sex: for getting on for 2 years!?!?! :shrug:

Apologies for the rant - I know that especially those of you dealing with hormone issues as part of this will understand


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## Stinas

raelynn - Thats great news!!!!! Good luck!!!!!

Canadian - Yay!! Im glad to see that you guys are moving along!! There are tons of humps in the road, but once you go over them it feels great! 

Deb - Sorry DH is in a slump. I guess the men only fully understand what is going though their minds, just like only we get what we are going through with the whole azoo ordeal. It just sucks all around. 
Im a horny ******* and want it all the time...so when this azoo crap came up, it killed it, but its getting back to normal now. You just need to smack DH around a little and tell him that you can have all the "poor me" moments you want, but only OUT of the bedroom. You need to be a tiger in the bedroom lol My DH got a kick out of it. hehe


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## CanadianMaple

Deb- I understand so much. I'm sorry you are going through this.

News for me. I start the BCP today and will be doing dIUI next month. I'm scared to death, but so excited. My LH was high but I'm not insulin dependent, so I need to do clomid 50mg and then do a trigger shot at cd13. I can't seem to find the perfect sperm donor though!

DH is really excited now. He needed to have a few questions answered about his own infertility and is ready to move on. He is still sad, but is happy to know we will have a baby.


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## snd80

:hi: to all my beautiful girls out here!!! 

Sorry I have been awol, but I have had a LOT of crap I've been dealing with these past two weeks... just a quick rundown... had my new car only a week and a half and the county inmates were cutting grass where I park at work and messed up my paint on my front bumper and I have been fighting with EVERYONE'S insurance to try to get my shit fixed; the business I work for has decided to upgrade to a bigger place and risks loosing the business all together if it fails; went for a job interview yesterday just in case this job falls through; trying to get a will made cause my hubby hasn't been in good health lately with his dialysis... ugh! It has all been one big ordeal!!! :brat:

On a good/better note, u/s is set for the morning to see if my "good" side wants to play ball or not, and hopefully we will be going for round 2 Sat or Sun! Thank GOD my clinic does 7 days a week!!! So everyone say a little prayer for me tonight!!!! [-o&lt;

And a big warm welcome to Brandy! We are all here for you! :hugs:

And loads of good luck to all my other girls who are in the middle of their procedures!!! We are *ALL* due some good news dammit!!! :thumbup:

And Deb, I feel what you are saying..... my hubby says once I get pg, no more :sex:! Really?! WTF does that have to do with it?! I'm _lucky_ to even get any anymore as it is!!! :nope:

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: to everyone and I'll update you guys in the morning!!! Fingers, eyes, legs, toes crossed!!!!! :haha:


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## deafgal01

:dust: Good luck snd!

Deb- :shock: I can't even imagine having less sex, let alone none at all. :shrug: That sucks. I hope he comes around soon and you can get some loving. :hugs:

How's everyone else doing? I'm just trying to get my head into planning for after DH's biopsy as I will have to cook meals for us and everything. :shock: I don't even cook that much so I need to plan to make sure we have various options as opposed to like same two or three things in a row. :haha: :thumbup: I'll figure something out. No worries.


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## MrsC8776

raelynn~ Good luck tomorrow!! 

Canadian~ I'm so glad you will be getting started soon. Thats great that your DH is excited. It's normal to be sad but still excited. 

Deb~ Sorry things are tough right now. :hugs:

snd~ I have my scan tomorrow too! Fx for you that everything looks good. Sorry to hear about your new car. Sounds like you have a lot going on. I hope things get better for you and your hubby soon.


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## raelynn

So my trigger went fine. I numbed with ice for a few minutes beforehand and I honestly didn't feel a thing. I was a huge baby though freaking out ahead of time because that needle looked giant!

ER is set for 9am tomorrow and now I'm worrying about the next needle...the IV. I wish I wasn't so afraid of needles because its turning me into a nervous wreck! The lab also never called today to tell us if hubby's samples from his previous TESE survived to defrost so now he has to assume he's going in for another TESE tomorrow until the doctors and the labs get things sorted out in the morning. He's also having it done at a location 1.5 hours away and I'll be at our normal location so his parents are coming up tonight to take him tomorrow and my dad will come tomorrow morning to take me. Could this be any more chaotic?


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## deafgal01

Oh wow Rae that is nuts! :wacko: hope you survive tomorrow!


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## SunUp

Good luck Rae! I put in IV's all the time, in my opinion, they usually hurt less than the butterfly ones, because as soon as the needle is in the vein, the needle comes out and just the catheter is left. Although they do even use lidocaine to numb the IV site first.

SND- Good luck, fingers crossed!!!

Canadian - we will possibly be timed for IUI similarly. I am doing 2 weeks of birth control and then will start IUI cycle #3. Hopefully IUI will be end of July.


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## raelynn

Thanks! Hopefully they numb me up and I'm again freaking out about nothing.


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## MJ73

Hi All,

Wow Rae, great that you've triggered already. We'll be keeping everything crossed for a great eggie haul & some great fert rates!

SND; sounds like a bitch of a week, you poor love. Hoping your good side plays ball this cycle hun & keeping all my bits crossed for you xx

CM, I am so happy that things are moving along for you. Choosing a donor is tough, but the girls on here have such great advice to offer.

Sun, my sweetie, I will be keeping everything crossed for you too, hopefully the changed protocol might be just the change you need xx

Deb, I totally understand the whole low libido thing. It's tough isn't it? :hugs: How did Terry find the Anastrazole? Simon is like a different man on the stuff. The irony is that now he wants :sex: & I'm too scared to because of our previous miscarriage. I hope that dr Ramsay can help you guys out hun xx


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## wibble wobble

hey all

Rae good luck for egg collection

Snd hope things go right for you at the weekend

Deb sorry to hear you are feeling so alone, hope the docs can sort something out for you both

Canadian wow things are moving fast for you now, hope you can find a donor you like the sound of soon

afm I had collection yesterday they got 12 and 6 fertilised so happy with that just got to wait til tuesday now for transfer


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## SunUp

wibble wobble said:


> hey all
> 
> Rae good luck for egg collection
> 
> Snd hope things go right for you at the weekend
> 
> Deb sorry to hear you are feeling so alone, hope the docs can sort something out for you both
> 
> Canadian wow things are moving fast for you now, hope you can find a donor you like the sound of soon
> 
> afm I had collection yesterday they got 12 and 6 fertilised so happy with that just got to wait til tuesday now for transfer

:wohoo::wohoo::wohoo::wohoo::wohoo::wohoo::wohoo::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust::dust:


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## deafgal01

Wibble- :dust: :dust: :dust: May you implant some of these eggs to make new babies for us azoo aunties excited over. I hope Tuesday you get good answers and see some implant!


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## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

I hope you're all fine and dandy :flower:

SND: Ah, hun :hugs: It never rains but it pours, eh? Good luck with the U/S, I hope the good side is ready for action this month!

Wibble: That's fantastic, hun! Fingers crossed all goes well and as DG said, us Azoo Aunties are hoping for some more babies to coo over!

Rae: Goooooood luck for the ER! I hope you get some lovely, ripe, healthy eggs! 

Debs: I hope you get some good news from Mr Ramsey. I'm also sorry to hear Terry is down and you're feeling alone, it must be incredibly frustrating :hugs: DH's Test was normal (I wonder if we'll ever know the cause for the Azoo??), so when we got the results he was still 'up for it', but I was the one who didn't want to. Before the diagnosis, every month was about TTC, so it's all I could associate DTD with and I just didn't want to as it just brought it all home.. what was the point, we can't make a baby like everyone else? Azoo sucks!!! I'm sending you more :hugs: darling and I hope you can get through this :hugs:

CM: Wow! That's great news! I hope you can find a donor that you're both happy with, but how great is it that things are moving along? 

Sun: Really sorry about this cycle :hugs: but here's hoping #3 is the one!! So many lovelies on here moving along at the mo', I hope we're heading for a bumper bunch of BFPs!!

DG: Gosh, you're so organised! Good luck with DH's biopsy, will be crossing everything that you get some good news!

Brandy: Hello :hugs: You've come to the right place, everyone here is so friendly and helpful. Everyone here knows exactly how you are feeling and what you're feeling is completely normal. It's a long, hard journey, but with tremendous support from these lovely ladies, you will get there :hugs:

StepM: I'm keeping everything crossed that the next cycle works for you, hun :hugs:

If I've missed anyone, I'm so sorry... as always I send much love and many :hugs: to you all.

AFM.. well, AF is here, so today is officially CD1 of my first ever ICSI/IVF cycle! I'm excited and freaked in equal measure. I don't start jabbing myself until the 19th July - husband is happy to do it... a little TOO happy I think! :haha: - I'm already worried about my wandering left ovary (will they be able to get to it), will the drugs works, will there BE any sperm when they defrost DH's sample... blah, blah, blah!! I'm such a worrier, why am I trying to have kids again??!:wacko: I was even panicking when I booked my first scan appointment today (2nd August). I guess like anything, you just have to go with it and hope for the best.

Have a fab weekend everyone!

More :hugs:

C xx


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## deafgal01

Tiger- Good luck! Hope AF is being kind this cycle. :dust: I hope that this cycle works for you but yeah, I hear ya on all the questions that is yet to be answered. Often I hear that the first cycle is usually a test one, then the second cycle or beyond is successful. :shrug:


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## snd80

WW-:happydance:! Looks like we will be in the 2WW together!!!!!! :thumbup:

I'm a go for tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scan was great! 4 follies on the good side and 2 on the bad! Biggest "good" side one was 2.8!!!!!! I am soooo freaking excited!!!!!!!!!!! :wohoo: Plus got a + ov test this morning, so like Ice Cube, "Today is a Good Day"!!!!! :cloud9: Gotta be there at 8:30 in the morning, so we have to leave home at 4:00.... BOOOO! But it _*WILL*_ be worth it!!! Just hope I don't end up with 4 babies.... or I'll be putting 2-3 of them on ebay! :rofl: J/K!!!! But that _is_ the scary part. So we shall see!!! PMA Nikki, PMA!!!!

I'll update everyone Monday as to how it goes. Hope everyone has a good weekend and :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: and keep me in your prayers!!! [-o&lt;


----------



## raelynn

Wibble Wobble - So thrilled for you! Praying and sending you lots of baby dust for a smooth transfer and sticky embryos

Tiger - Hooray for getting started! I was a worrier too. I worried through this whole process and I'm sure I'll keep on worrying but try to relax a bit (I know its hard!) It will be over before you know it.

snd - So glad you're a go for IUI. Praying it all goes well and works out perfectly for you! Boo to the tww several of us will have to get through shortly. But hopefully we all have good outcomes from it!

AFM - ER went great! I have just a bit of mild cramping but otherwise feel fine. I have to remind myself to take it easy. My dad ended up taking me in this morning since we still hadn't heard whether the frozen sperm from previous TESE made it so hubby was on stand by for a backup TESE. He got the call while I was in pre-op and texted my dad that the frozen ones survived so that was great news right before I went in and hubby came to the hospital straight away to be with me once I got to recovery. We got 15 eggs so I'm very happy. The hospital staff was all wonderful, my nurse talked to me through the IV so it was pretty easy just a little pinchy, and that was the worst of it. Excited to get the fertilization report tomorrow! ET will be either Monday or Wednesday.


----------



## ShortyA22

Hey Everyone!!

I'm new here and would like to talk with others on the experience I am going through..

Im 26 Years old and my Husband is 33. I have a 6 year old son from a previous relationship and my husband doesn't have any.

We were trying to conceive over a year and didn't get prego, so went to DR- Everything seemed fine with me and I previously got pregnant and gave birth in 2005- which was unexpected and while I was on the pill

My husband went to a local urologist after several semen analysis which showed he didnt have any sperm at all.. Well months and months went by we were referred to an awesome Dr an hour from home and after many and many tests..They really couldnt find what was wrong so they decided to proceed with surgery where they removed testicles and GUESS WHAT... They found lots and lots and lots of sperm but there was a blockage...So Pretty much this is where we are now.. We are going to have to undergo IVF with ICSI.. I'm very anxious now that the time has come but also scared and just dont understand sometimes During all this and seeing what my husband has went through and us wanting to have a child so bad and then having to go through all this and its very expensive.

Well, the time has come and this is where I'm @ now...

IVF #1 and we hope and pray it will be successful

I Started BCP May 2012 and just finished them June 23

Started Lupron 20 units 6/20 along with Doxycycline 100mg twice a day

Ive been feeling a little loopy and emotional

I went to the DR today 6/28 for a Baseline Ultrasound and Bloodwork-- so far they said everything seemed and looked great

Tomorrow, 6/29 I reduce Lupron to 5 unites and Start GONAL-F 225 units

I then go back to the DR next Mon, Wed and Fri for bloodwork and ultrasounds

and I will probably have my retreival around July 9th ( My Birthday is the 8th)

I'm really not sure what to expect bc Ive never done this before and dont really have anyone to talk with bc we have pretty much kept this a secret from most of our friends and family.


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## tigerlily1975

SND: :yipee: That's faaaabulous! Oooh, you might get a 'buy one, get two free'! :haha: Good luck, hun!!

Rae: :happydance: I'm so happy for you! 15 eggs AND the sperm survived - I imagine them like Han Solo when they're frozen :rofl: poor little things! - come on little cells, get fertilizin'!! I've got everything crossed for ET!

DG: Thanks, darling :hugs: Yeah, a lot of people have said that the first one is like a test run. We get one cycle on the NHS (which is more than some people get.. grrrr!), after that it's down to money. It's such a shame that us Azoo gals are limited to TTC only when we can afford to. Oh, to be able to DTD every month like everyone else...

Laters, gorgeous ladies, 

C xx


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## raelynn

tigerlily1975 said:


> Rae: :happydance: I'm so happy for you! 15 eggs AND the sperm survived - I imagine them like Han Solo when they're frozen :rofl: poor little things! - come on little cells, get fertilizin'!! I've got everything crossed for ET!

Haha! That's so funny! I was telling hubby today they were like Stewie in Family Guy where the sperm were fighter ships blowing each other up :haha:


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## Stinas

raelynn - Wow...thats a lot of back and forth craziness! Its worth it though!!! 
Wonderful news!!!!! Keep us updated!!!!!!

wibble wobble - Yay! Great news!!!

Tiger - Isnt it weird being glad AF came so you can start your cycle?! I think im about a week or two behind you. Its only natural to be nervous...it will all work out in the end! Good luck!!!

snd - FX its your cycle!!!!!!! 

Shorty - Sorry to see you here, but you came to a great place with amazing women!!!! Congrats on finding sperm!!! Good luck with this cycle...you seem to be soooooo close to getting that baby! Keep us updated!! It is hard to talk to other people about this. You only understand it if you are going through it...no one gets it otherwise. 


As for me....DH TESE is right around the corner! July 9......im super duper nervous and pray every day for sperm! I think AF is right around the corner as well, a bit earlier than I thought. Im a raging bitch and im ready to rip my boobs off they are soooo sore......but im happy because this means I get to start my BCP a little earlier than we thought! Lets get this show on the road!


----------



## snd80

tigerlily1975 said:


> SND: :yipee: That's faaaabulous! Oooh, you might get a 'buy one, get two free'! :haha: Good luck, hun!!
> 
> Laters, gorgeous ladies,
> 
> C xx

:rofl: I love bargins BUT.... that might be a little much!!! :haha: I told my mother (who is here for a visit from Oregon) that if I did get pg w/ 4 she would have to stay here for good and help me with all them!!! But I'll take the chance! Just quadrouple the chance of one taking!!!!! Right?!

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes!!! IDK what I would do without all my cheerleaders!!! :hugs:


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## MrsC8776

wibble wobble~ Congrats for getting so many eggs! Fx for Tuesday. 

tiger~ Yay for CD1! Not much longer for things to get started. 

snd~ Yay for a positive opk. Good luck tomorrow! 

raelynn~ I'm so glad everything went well. Sounds like you got many eggs! :happydance: Fx for you. 

Shorty~ Welcome :hi: Not much longer for you. 

Stinas~ Fx for you and your DH during the TESE. Sorry to hear that af is being rough and she hasn't even started yet. 

AFM~ I had my scan this morning. Everything looked great and he said I have 2-3 on the left that are measuring around 19 and one on the right measuring 9. I got a trigger shot to take tonight and then I'll have the IUI on Sunday. I'm a little worried about the shot but I really shouldn't be. It's just the first one I've ever had to do myself. Hubby did one for me a few months back but he's still not home. Also my IUI is at 11:15 on Sunday but they gave me a window to take the trigger shot in. My paper says between 8-10 tonight. Isn't there usually a set time to take it? Any input on what time I should choose? It may not even matter but I was thinking around 9pm. :shrug:


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## raelynn

Stinas - Will keep my fingers crossed for you that your DH's TESE goes well!

MrsC - I think you should be fine with 9. I know they time IVF exactly 35 hours after the trigger so you're right at the edge before ovulation so since your appointment is a couple hours past that 35 hour mark you should be fine regardless of what time you pick. Good luck!


----------



## MrsC8776

raelynn said:


> Stinas - Will keep my fingers crossed for you that your DH's TESE goes well!
> 
> MrsC - I think you should be fine with 9. I know they time IVF exactly 35 hours after the trigger so you're right at the edge before ovulation so since your appointment is a couple hours past that 35 hour mark you should be fine regardless of what time you pick. Good luck!

Thank you! Knowing that the trigger with IVF is 35 hours helps me out a little.


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## Deb111

Wibble &#8211; fantastic news &#8211; keeping everything crossed for Tuesday&#8217;s report

CM &#8211; glad things are progressing &#8211; I&#8217;m sure all the emotions are totally normal &#8211; you are both dealing with so much mentally

Tiger &#8211; so glad you&#8217;ve started the ball rolling with your cycle &#8211; my advice is, as hard as it is, just to take one step of the process at a time. The one and only thing you are allowed to worry about right now is responding well to the injections &#8211; once you know that, you are allowed to start worrying about the next thing &#8211; but only one worry at a time! :winkwink:

Snd &#8211; keeping you in my prayers and hoping that all went well with the dIUI 

Rae &#8211; fabulous news about 15 eggs and dh&#8217;s sperm surviving! :dance: I hope the fertilisation report has been good

Welcome Shorty &#8211; sorry you have to deal with this all, but fantastic news about them finding loads of sperm to work with. That takes a huge pressure off you both :thumbup: Any questions you have, feel free to ask

Stinas &#8211; keeping everything crossed for the TESE

MrsC &#8211; hope all went well with the trigger and will be keeping everything crossed for you

I&#8217;m loving the fact that there are so many of you going to be going through the 2WW so close together. I just know we will get loads more :bfp:s!!

Hope I haven&#8217;t missed out anyone

:hugs::kiss:


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## raelynn

Well ladies, of the 15 eggs retrieved, 11 were mature, but only 2 fertilized. I'm pretty crushed that we only have 2. I guess I should be happy though that we have any at all considering the azoo. Praying so hard that our two embryos make it! The clinic is also out of power because of crazy thunderstorms last night - not sure what that means for the lab.


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## Deb111

Sorry you're disappointed Rae - we had 8, all were mature and we only got 3 fertilised, but those 3 all went on to be great blastocysts. Try not to get too obsessed by numbers, it's quality, not quantity that counts :thumbup:


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## MrsC8776

raelynn said:


> Well ladies, of the 15 eggs retrieved, 11 were mature, but only 2 fertilized. I'm pretty crushed that we only have 2. I guess I should be happy though that we have any at all considering the azoo. Praying so hard that our two embryos make it! The clinic is also out of power because of crazy thunderstorms last night - not sure what that means for the lab.

I can understand being upset about having the 2 left. Those two are going to be very strong for you! I'm sure that the clinic has a backup power source. :thumbup: Try not to worry and just focus on the 2 growing. Will you put both back? 

AFM~ Trigger went fine last night. I actually didn't even panic. :haha: When it come to all of this TTC business I think we all just do what we have to do.


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## raelynn

Glad the trigger went well for you MrsC!

My doctor had originally said if we had anything less than 4 embryos we'd transfer 2 on day 3 so I'm hoping we're sticking to the plan. I haven't heard for sure yet. Hopefully I'll find out more tomorrow.


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## MrsC8776

Hopefully good news tomorrow and he will let you put both back. Fx for you!


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## raelynn

Got the call today! 2 embryos still! One is a 2 cell and one is a 4 cell. ET is tomorrow morning. I'm so excited!


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## tigerlily1975

Rae: :yipee: That's fantastic! Good luck for tomorrow!!

MrsC: Well done on the trigger shot and lots of luck to you, too!

:hi: to all!

C xx


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## Deb111

Great news Rae - keeping everything crossed for a smooth transfer xx


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## Stinas

raelynn - Yay!!!!


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: Good luck Rae :dust: let these two embryos implant and make babies!!!!


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## MrsC8776

Good luck tomorrow raelynn! 

Everything went well today. They want me back on the 12th for a beta. I asked if I needed to come back even if it negative at home. He said yes because my RE won't give me clomid again unless I get the beta. :shrug: Fx this works.


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## raelynn

Good luck MrsC!!! :dust:


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## deafgal01

:dust: MrsC good luck!!!!!!


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## MrsC8776

Thanks ladies! I'm a little worried that they want a beta so soon. I asked if it was to early and she said no he likes to do them a day early. The people there are not the ones I normally deal with since it is the weekend so I didn't see my normal RE.


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## snd80

:yipee: for Rae and MrsC!!!! Fingers, toes, eyes and legs crossed for you both!!!!

AFM- Everything went GREAT!!!! :cloud9: Didn't have the bloating like last time, got a lot of rest before coming back to work... so far so good! XX Counts were 63 million again, and start progesterone in the morning and have progesterone blood work set for Friday morning... I feel wonderful, so hoping that is a good sign at least...

Will come back later for more personals. I wanted to update this morning, but came into chaos at work all day! LOL! Hope everyone is well though!!! :hugs:


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## raelynn

Snd - Thanks! Hope that everything continues to go great for you!

I'm so excited and hopeful for those of us in the 2ww right now. Hopefully we'll be seeing lots of BFPs soon. How is everyone planning to get through the wait. The 4th of July holiday will help break up this week a bit at least.


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## deafgal01

Snd- now you got us curious and interested in what happened with your day.

Oy- in 3 days DH will have his biopsy. He's a little nervous. I'm stocked up on meals (some easy meals that you just cook- frozen stir fry) and other meals that I need to cook almost from scratch. :thumbup: I think we're all set for the meals and food after he's done with it. One of my bnb ladies suggested a movie marathon- so I think I will do that for DH afterwards (either in the living room or the bedroom depending on where he's more comfortable- think he'll be happy sitting in his chair laid back a little). I just need to buy more dog food and then I can just stay home with him while he recovers (taking care of all house chores- watering garden, dishes, cooking, taking care of both dog and cat, etc.) I'm nervous about the biopsy myself. :shrug: I know he'll be fine and all that, but it's the moment of the truth that scares me a little because this will determine which route we go from here.

How's everyone doing in their journeys?


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## raelynn

Good luck deafgal! Hoping your DH's biopsy goes well, he heals well, and you get some good news!


----------



## Stinas

Deafgal - I wish you all the luck in the world for your biopsy!!! Lots of prayers coming your way! I feel the same way about it. Super nervous because this really is whats going to determine whats in store for us. DH's should be fine after a few days. Im not looking forward to the cranky person he is going to become lol but then again...I dont blame him. 
Praying for sperm here! 

snd - Glad everything went smoothly!!!! 

MrsC - Good luck!!!

raelynn - How are you feeling?


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## snd80

Rae- We have decided to play like nothing ever happened. I'm *not* gonna stress and just roll with the flow like any other day. Hubby has dialysis tomorrow, and I am off work for the one day, so I'm gonna grill some chicken and burgers to have ready for him when he gets home. Suprisingly I am very calm. Guess you live and learn!!!

DG- Praying for you both! Hope you get some good news!!!!! Us azoo girls are owed some!!!! If you wanna know the jist of my story, I will try to keep it short and sweet. We had to be there at 8:30, and we live about 4 hours away. Didn't sleep much the night before cause I was too excited, and plus had the alarm set for 3 am, tried to go to bed early but to no avail. Wound up getting up at 2:40 and went ahead and got ready, got hubby up at 3:30 and we left home at 4 running on about 2 hours of cat-napping sleep. Got there at 7:30, and waited in the car til 8. Went in a little early cause the lab lady called to make sure we were there. It was only her and the nurse that did the IUI there that day. Got in the room right at 8:30. Nurse told me the counts, and did the procedure. Didn't even feel much. I felt the scratching a little, but didn't even know when she was done. Hubby held my hand the whole time. When finished, I stayed elevated for about 20 minutes and left right at 9. Basically did a turn-and-burn. Laid back in the front seat with my feet on the dash for about an hour and a half. Got back home at 1 and went directly to bed with a pillow under my hips for about 3 hours. I was sooo tired!! Stayed up til 10 and crashed til 8 the next morning. Got lots of good rest! I needed it!!!! So there it is... in all it's glory! :haha:

Started the progesterone inserts this morning. I think I was nervous about it last night cause I dreamed I was fighting with my cousin b/c she was making me late of taking it! LOL! The discharge is the WORST part!!!! I feel icky!!! But if it brings me a :baby:, *I DON'T CARE*!!!!! And then it cost me $90 for a 2 week supply! Oh my!!!! I'm gonna go broke buying hormones!!!! :rofl:

Hope everyone has a good 4th!!!! :drunk: 

:hugs:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## deafgal01

:dust: Snd, Hope this is a sticky baby for ya! :thumbup: Happy 4th to you too! I think it's funny you're gonna go broke buying these hormones. :haha:


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## snd80

deafgal01 said:


> I think it's funny you're gonna go broke buying these hormones. :haha:

I don't! Fat b*tch still has to eat too!!!! :rofl:


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## deafgal01

Snd- I'd go broke paying $90 for hormones too if I was in your shoes. :hugs: Hope you get it this time and won't have to spend more money for hormones and can instead buy food for your growing babies and yourself. :hugs:


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## MrsC8776

snd~ Good luck!! Sorry about the progesterone being nasty. If your mom is still visiting I hope you girls are having a great time. 

deafgal~ I hope everything goes well and you guys get some good news. Sounds like you are all set to take care of your DH after the biopsy. 

Stinas~ Not much longer until your DH has his biopsy. I hope everything goes well for you both.


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## raelynn

Stinas - I'm feeling fine. I went back to work today for one day before 4th of July break :) It was a little overwhelming but I got through it. Had a little bit of cramping today but I'm trying not to read into every little sign since the hormones are making my body weird already.

snd - I'm with you on the progesterone suppositories being gross. The first few days I took them I was on bedrest so I didn't really have much discharge. Now that I'm up and about its just yucky. But, I'd rather be yucky than have to stick myself with that giant needle in the butt every day so I'll deal with it.


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## MJ73

Oh my, I have a few days off BnB & so much happens; work has just been crazy busy. I don't have time to do personals at the moment. But please evrybody know that I am cheering you on from the sidelines. I am so happy to know that everyone is moving along so quickly, I'm hoping for some more BFPs soon. To everyone in their 2ww; sending loads of love & caring your way. Hang in there girls; a million hugs your way :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## MJ73

snd80 said:


> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> I think it's funny you're gonna go broke buying these hormones. :haha:
> 
> I don't! Fat b*tch still has to eat too!!!! :rofl:Click to expand...

SND, you literally made me laugh out loud. Over here the pessaries are $120 for 20. This fat b*tch has been living on bread & water just to afford them lol:rofl:

Soon you'll be eating for two & soon you'll look like me :holly:


----------



## snd80

MJ73 said:


> snd80 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> I think it's funny you're gonna go broke buying these hormones. :haha:
> 
> I don't! Fat b*tch still has to eat too!!!! :rofl:Click to expand...
> 
> SND, you literally made me laugh out loud. Over here the pessaries are $120 for 20. This fat b*tch has been living on bread & water just to afford them lol:rofl:
> 
> Soon you'll be eating for two & soon you'll look like me :holly:Click to expand...

Well, I guess it could always be worse! :haha: I can tell they are messing with my emotions already though! I about went off on the pharmacy girl this morning.... she was just standing there blinking really fast like she was processing what I was trying to tell her. I literally had to stop and take a deep breath to keep from going nuts on her! :rofl:

Oh, MJ, I hope you are right my dear! It scares me to think I only have one more vial left then I am out!!! :nope: All I can keep doing is praying!!! [-o&lt;


----------



## deafgal01

:haha: poor girl!

Currently waiting in a private room for dr to come talk to us before dh's biopsy.


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## MrsC8776

deafgal01 said:


> :haha: poor girl!
> 
> Currently waiting in a private room for dr to come talk to us before dh's biopsy.

Good luck today! :flower: I hope you guys get some good news and everything goes well.


----------



## deafgal01

They just took him to surgery for the biopsy. Should take less than half hour then dr will come out and talk to me (I have iPad with me).


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## Deb111

Thinking of you both DG - hope you get some good news xx


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## deafgal01

It went fine. He's in recovery for 30 to 40 minutes then they will take me to him. Dr will meet with him in 2 weeks to go over the results and he has a jockstrap. Def Ice and painkillers... The stitches will dissolve. He can take shower Saturday and slowly go back to normal after 3 to 5 days of staying home.


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## snd80

Praying for a good outcome DG!!!! Thinking of you! :flower:


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## deafgal01

We're to abstain from sex for 10 to 14 days. :shrug: So no sex before I go to camp. :dohh:

DH said he's in no pain (but the numb/pain med is supposed to wear off in the next 1 to 2 hours. We'll see where he is after that). He's currently sat in his comfy chair with his feet up relaxing. I put on some star trek tv show dvd at his request on. We have painkiller med in case he needs it. :thumbup: I think it'll be smooth sailings from here on. No idea what the results will look like- the dr said his office will call with a date and time for the next appt and DH will go to that in 2 weeks' time and get the results then.


----------



## Deb111

Glad dh is doing ok DG :thumbup: xx


----------



## Stinas

DG - Glad DH is not in pain and everything went smoothly. Now the wait begins! I hope these two weeks go fast for you!!! 
I wonder why you have to wait two weeks? They told me I will find out right away and that our surgery is 2.5 hours long(they called DH today...plus we had to give them a hefty 3k:sick::trouble:)
There goes the new MacBook Pro that I want ...right into his balls lol He got a kick out of that one. Oh well.


----------



## deafgal01

:rofl: You're spending the money you saved up for a Macbook pro on his balls?!?! Girl!!!

Well, I guess the wait is to analyze the tissue as thoroughly as possible. :shrug: No idea really... It's not a mtese or anything of the sort so I don't know really why it would take them 2 weeks. Hmmm... I'll be away at camp when he gets the news so I probably will have to find a private room to cry tears (whether it's good or bad). :shrug:


----------



## Stinas

Im dying for a new MBP.....mine is from 06, so its starting to slow down. I told him after all this is over with and once we complete IVF(hoping we have sperm and everything goes good) I dont care how much money it is, I am getting a new one....and shockingly he said ok. lol So im going with it....heck....after all of this....we will have spent around 30k, so whats 3k more? lol

hmmm...Hopefully they will find out earlier for you. I would go nuts....maybe camp can keep your mind somewhat occupied.

We are doing the TESE, so maybe thats why we are finding out right away? I have no clue...im pretty much lost because DH is the one communicating with them.


----------



## deafgal01

Stinas- tell me about it... My DH is the only one communicating and deciding all this stuff with his dr. At least I know what he wants to do based on what they figure out from this biopsy. I'm shocked your DH said nothing about the MBP... It's a very sweet deal that you get a new computer after all that... Then again, after everything you've been thru, maybe he feels guilty that you two spent so much for this ttc journey and nothing... :shrug: Good luck on the tese.

By the way, camp will definitely keep my mind distracted. :haha: :thumbup: I think that's a necessity this summer. :shrug:


----------



## MJ73

DG, so glad everything went well for DH!:flower: What brave little soldiers they are. Did your DH get a general anesthetic? My poor Simon had to have a local in the site then was awake for the whole procedure, I think he is truly traumatised. Really hoping it's a great outcome for you guys:dust:

My gorgeous SND, praying that you don't need that last vial hun. Keeping up the PMA on your behalf. :hugs:

Stinas, you go girl on getting that MBP. I think that we should all get something to treat ourselves on this sh*#ty journey... :hugs:


----------



## MJ73

BTW, how's everyone else doing? Sending so much love & prayers out to those mid cycle or in the 2ww. Loads of :dust::dust::dust::af::af::af::ninja::ninja::ninja: & because this is an azoo thread some good luck :football::football::football: too xx


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## tigerlily1975

Stinas said:


> Im dying for a new MBP.....mine is from 06, so its starting to slow down. I told him after all this is over with and once we complete IVF(hoping we have sperm and everything goes good) I dont care how much money it is, I am getting a new one....and shockingly he said ok. lol So im going with it....heck....after all of this....we will have spent around 30k, so whats 3k more? lol

I like your style!! :rofl: *wanders off to look at Mulberry handbags*

Good luck with the TESE!!

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

deafgal01 said:


> We're to abstain from sex for 10 to 14 days. :shrug: So no sex before I go to camp. :dohh:
> 
> DH said he's in no pain (but the numb/pain med is supposed to wear off in the next 1 to 2 hours. We'll see where he is after that). He's currently sat in his comfy chair with his feet up relaxing. I put on some star trek tv show dvd at his request on. We have painkiller med in case he needs it. :thumbup: I think it'll be smooth sailings from here on. No idea what the results will look like- the dr said his office will call with a date and time for the next appt and DH will go to that in 2 weeks' time and get the results then.

I'm glad it went well and DH is home and relaxing. Ah, the wait! I hope you get some GOOD news and soon :hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Well, I guess it could always be worse! :haha: I can tell they are messing with my emotions already though! I about went off on the pharmacy girl this morning.... she was just standing there blinking really fast like she was processing what I was trying to tell her. I literally had to stop and take a deep breath to keep from going nuts on her! :rofl:
> 
> Oh, MJ, I hope you are right my dear! It scares me to think I only have one more vial left then I am out!!! :nope: All I can keep doing is praying!!! [-o&lt;


Aww, SND, you always make me giggle!

I am sending you tonnes of :dust: :dust: and willing this to be it for you! 

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## wibble wobble

wow loads has happened in the few days I've been away

Snd, MrsC and Raelynn congrats on being pupo when is OTD?

MJ and Deb hope your both feeling ok yummy mummy's :hugs:

Deafgal hope you get good results from the tese

Stinas grr to your man being the one doing the communicating I always find that if it's my hubby getting the facts I only ever get half :shrug:

Sorry I've missed loads of you out :hugs: :hugs:

afm I'm 3dp5dt with 1 perfect blast that was getting ready to hatch, my otd is fri 13th :haha: just as well I'm not superstitious. Just 1 week left to go crazy for. Re the progesterone bullets my clinic recommend using the back door as they cause much less mess... just be prepared for white poo!! Oh and I've got a frostie too waiting to be a younger brother or sister :) in a couple of years or so


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## deafgal01

I wrote about it in my journal but I'll share here so you know too- some of you probably are curious. :shrug:

We went there by 9 am and checked DH in for the biopsy procedure. They had a male nurse take us up to the 3rd floor lobby. Very friendly guy- he has a deaf cousin so he was interested in sign language. So we wait in the lobby on the 3rd floor. About half hour or so they came out and fetched DH, he went in alone to change and get settled in the bed. Then they came and got me and we waited in his private room for the dr to come talk to us (both about the biopsy and the general anthesis). Anyways, we waited a long time (maybe it wasn't that long, just another half hour to an hour)... The dr shows up (first time I've met the man that has been checking my DH's sperms/stuff since Jan when we first got the diagnosis). Nice man. Anyways, he explained about the biopsy, what he was going to do and the incision that would fall out on its own. He explained the aftercare too (we got papers on it too). We asked whatever questions we had at that point too- my main one was how long to abstain from sex obviously. 10 to 14 days so no chance of sex before I go to camp. :-( But that's ok cuz we'll make up for it when I am in between camp and have a quickie before I head off to the other one. :haha: Back to the point, the lady came in and explained the process of putting DH to sleep for the surgery. We didn't have any questions for her. Then they came and walked him to surgery- no wheelchair or beds, he had to walk in the gown they gave him to wear. :haha: Poor guy... But anyways that was the point I had to go back to waiting room (with his glasses) and waited. It took about half hour if not less and then they put him in recovery room. I stayed in the lobby another 30 to 40 minutes during that time and the dr came out to let me know the procedure went fine and again explained the after care- medicine every 4 hours if needed, med must be taken with food, he can shower Saturday and take off the dressing on it. I shook hands with the dr that touched my man's balls... :shock: The only one who has done it in the past one year. :haha: Anyways, a nurse finally came and fetched me so I sat with DH in the room again and he told me about his experience... They put some drugs in the iv and he started feeling whoozy, so he asked "you gave me something didn't you?" They replied with "yeah, just a little cocktail to help you sleep." To which DH replied, "Give me another, bartender." :rofl: He's hilarious when he has to be. So anyways, we waited another 20 to 30 minutes before they released him to me. I fetched the car and waited out front for the nurse to wheel my husband to my car (they used a wheelchair this time after the surgery). The jockstrap they put on him looks makeshift. :shrug: But it works. I took him home and he's been sitting in his "man" chair all day yesterday and slept in our bed last night, and is back in the "man" chair this morning.

The good man is behaving and not lifting a finger so far. :rofl: He said last night that he had wanted to do something productive because he felt useless watching me do everything. :rofl: I reminded he has a very important job and that was to rest and take care of these guys in his balls. :thumbup: He's told me he's not in any pain - just a little discomfort occasionally so overall, not bad for him. :shrug: He definitely has been keeping ice on it all day yesterday and today. :dohh: So I keep refreshing the ice pack with new ice.

Our cat won't go to my DH though. :shrug: Maybe he smells a little funny or something now from the procedure who knows... So she's been coming to me for a lot of attention.

That's our experience with the biopsy in a nutshell... Less than 1/2 hour procedure, checked in 2 hours before, with it scheduled at 11 am and out by 12:45 pm. Glad they put him to sleep for it... I sure wouldn't want to be awake for this kind of procedure. We got home by 2 pm after all the stops I made (to drop off medicine and pick up dog food). Lots of ice and resting while I cater to his every needs. He's able to go to the bathroom on his own.

Good luck to all the ladies out there. :dust:


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## Deb111

Glad to hear dh is resting and not feeling too bad :thumbup: 

I remember hubby walking down to theatre too, in his gown - that was the one time on the day that I had a little tear - he looked all helpless :nope:

WW - embryos on the verge of hatching are lucky for us azoo ladies - with both mine and MJ's, you could actually see a little bubble at one point round the edge where it was starting to hatch out :thumbup:


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## Stinas

I think we should all buy ourselves a little something. We sure as hell deserve it!!!

DG - Thanks for the info. DH freaked out when he heard 2.5hrs, but I knew it was from the time we get there to the time we leave. Men dont listen well enough. lol
Glad to hear DH is feeling good!


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## deafgal01

:thumbup: Stinas- we definitely deserve some kind of reward. :thumbup:

Oh, scheduled follow up appt for July 23rd, 11:50 am, so you'll be hearing from me Monday night of July 23rd when I know what the full results are. I asked DH to tell me via text so I wouldn't have to wait an additional entire week to come home for the full results.


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## raelynn

deafgal - Glad hubby is doing well. Keep him in that chair! Mine started thinking he could wander around and do all kinds of things the next day.

wibble wobble - So glad everything has gone well for you so far! My otd is the 13th too! That is also my sister's birthday and the 13th is special to my family since all the girls in my generation were born on the 13th. Hopefully it is good luck!

Still struggling through the 2ww here. I hate it! The 4th of July was a nice break though. Hopefully the weekend will be too. I tested out my trigger this morning so I'm going to hold out testing as long as I can next week but I'm sure I'll break earlier than I should.


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## deafgal01

Rae- that's my plan. :haha: He already started feeling useless last night and wanted to cook a meal in the kitchen. I told him that's out of the question because it's my duty as his wife to see to it that I take care of him this weekend and his job is to take care of these guys and relax. About lunchtime when I was making our sandwiches for lunch, he got this sneaky idea to grab his cup to fill it up in the kitchen and I ordered him back into his chair asap cuz I wasn't gonna let him rob me the joy/special occasion of "serving" him. :rofl: Cheeky bugger. Tonight since it's been more than 24 hours, I grabbed the opportunity to go see a cousin in the hospital so that was his only chance to do stuff for himself without me catering to him (he said he refilled his drink and changed the dvds in the tv). :thumbup: Nothing else. Tomorrow I intend to cook all the meals again. Might be Sunday or Monday before I let him cook a meal in the kitchen and slowly let things go back to normal. Definitely going to make sure he relaxes a lot this weekend.

:hugs: Rae- the 2ww is killer isn't it? Hope you hold out and that you get a bfp at the end of this wait. :hugs: :dust:


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## Arimas

Hi Ladies :hi:

I am happy to find a thread that talks about azoospermia, My DH had a TESE biopsy last October and found sperm, had an IVF but it was negative. About to go for IVF #2. 

I wish all of you ladies the best :hugs: I will read this thread to catch up with whats goin on with everyone. :coffee:

take care :flower:


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## Stinas

Arimas - Welcome!!! Best of luck with IVF #2!!!


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## deafgal01

Arimas- good luck :dust: on your upcoming ivf #2.

Deb- mind updating the front page? for me? "My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. DH currently on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole. DH's Biopsy results to be revealed July 23, 2012."


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## tigerlily1975

wibble wobble said:


> afm I'm 3dp5dt with 1 perfect blast that was getting ready to hatch, my otd is fri 13th :haha: just as well I'm not superstitious. Just 1 week left to go crazy for. Re the progesterone bullets my clinic recommend using the back door as they cause much less mess... just be prepared for white poo!! Oh and I've got a frostie too waiting to be a younger brother or sister :) in a couple of years or so

That's fantastic, Wibble! Keeping everything crossed for Friday the 13th!! :thumbup: If I see a black cat, I'll be sure to pet it!! 

:hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Arimas said:


> Hi Ladies :hi:
> 
> I am happy to find a thread that talks about azoospermia, My DH had a TESE biopsy last October and found sperm, had an IVF but it was negative. About to go for IVF #2.
> 
> I wish all of you ladies the best :hugs: I will read this thread to catch up with whats goin on with everyone. :coffee:
> 
> take care :flower:

Hi Arimas :hi:

It's good you've found us! Good luck with the IVF/ICSI #2, I hope this is the one!!

:hugs:

C xx


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## wibble wobble

Hi Arimas welcome to the thread, good luck with IVF#2


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## deafgal01

Wibble- I have a black cat here. I'll definitely pet mine for your good luck. :thumbup:


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## cbergs

Hello everyone,

My DH has recently been dx with azoo. B/w is in the process of being analyzed, and he is going in for another SA that will be centrifuged at the Uro's office tomorrow. Also, tomorrow, we have our first appointment with the Reproductive Specialist. Cannot wait to get some questions answered!

I am handling our situation, but just barely. Reading others' stories and knowing that we are not alone has helped. Though, I wish this upon no-one! :nope:

It's great that I've seen some very recent updates in this forum, as the others I have posted to seem to have grown silent over the years. 

I'll keep you all in my prayers, please remember to keep us in yours! :hugs:

I am obsessed with writing out my struggles and successes- If you're ever bored, come on over to my blog. I am going to be consistent with my updates. Since we are in the beginning processes of everything, there will be much to write. 

*this forum won't let me post my blog site just yet, I guess I need to make at least 10 posts on here before it's allowed...* Will do so soon. 

If any of you also keep a blog, I would love to read your posts. :thumbup:

~Carrie


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## cbergs

mamabergs+blogspot+com...you can prob figure that out. :)


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## cbergs

+ = . !!! :)


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## deafgal01

Carrie- I'm sorry to hear you're finding yourself in the same boat we're in. But as you will soon find out, you've come to the best place possible for support. :hugs: I have a journal, it's linked in my siggy whenever I post in here under "Deafgal01's TTC journal". I hope you soon get answers pretty quickly as for some of us it can be a very long wait. I've been active member of this since Jan. right after I found out. Luckily as you have mentioned, there's been a few who have had success- Deb herself is pregnant. And so are a few others currently. :yipee: So you'll find there's hope yet for us even though our guys have azoospermia. :hugs:


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## cbergs

I love this forum the most ALREADY! thank you deafgal for your quick reply!

We are being as positive and hopeful and we could possibly be. I think it will be very helpful throughout this journey.

My dad said to me the other day: "Honey, you need to think of it this was. What you're going through is life altering, but it is not life devastating. You're going to be a mother one way or another- but I think it's going to go just the way you want."

I couldn't help but cry a little. I am 98% over the "why me" stage, which helps a lot!!

Do you girls (or guys, if they are on here) have any other good advice for keeping your spirits up?

Thanks. :flower:


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## deafgal01

One place to look is at the first page- Deb's first post... Everything is there- the information you need to know, a bittersweet video about the journey of azoospermia. At some point we all go thru a "grieving" process if you will look at it that way, not over the loss of a child but the idea of having a baby with our husband's sperm- because for some of us, that journey is not going to happen. You're right, it is just another barrier for us all to face and overcome.

Currently- I keep my spirits up by doing a regular work out (which usually consists of at least 30 minutes of walking/jogging combination)... I also tend to positive chat to myself most of the time (I'll say about 90% of time I do that because today was the 10% when I had a little down moment). I'm fine now though.


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## cbergs

I will check that out now, and I completely understand that I may need to go through that grieving process. I just decided that I wouldn't let that emotion overcome me, yet. We really have no answers. DH has only had a physical exam- in which the doctor "suspects it's a problem with production" - which, frankly, couldn't be worse news. BUT, he's not 100%, or probably even 70% sure. He just felt his balls. Big whoop. The real results will come with the b/w and then the sperm retrieval surgeries, if he needs it.

But of course, I am human. I have my moments and days. I'm sorry you had one of those today...what keeps me going, mostly, is looking at how far science has come and reading about "azoospermia success stories". Just google it. It'll make you smile! :happydance:

Working out is great for de-stressing. I can't wait to swim tomorrow night. (My gym just reopened it.)

Lots of :spermy::dust: to you and your man! I'll be thinking of you. 

~C


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## deafgal01

Carrie- thanks. So far my dh has had 3 SA, blood tests, medicines, and a biopsy. We get the results of the biopsy in 2 weeks- which is where we are right now in our journey. I've already had my lady parts checked out and nothing out of the norm. That's everything we've had done in the last 6 months. Every lady's DH/man in here has been thru a different journey but like you see, we all already are in the same boat just with that diagnosis of no sperms found. :hugs: I did some of the grieving process when I first found out before New Year's. Then I went thru a period of being extremely angry during spring (March I think it was). Now I'm just taking it day to day waiting and see approach to figure out where we're gonna go with this. Currently I cope just fine most days, but there's one young girl that makes me nuts with all her "happy" pregnancy posts/statuses in facebook (so that's the only person I really can't comment on right now- at least anything pregnancy related, I don't dare say anything). Other than that, last time I checked I'm still insane... Or am I sane? I can't figure it out. :smug:


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## cbergs

so..here. 

:sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex::sex:

lolololol!! Crazy smileys! (yes, I am 28...and yes, this makes me laugh, no, I won't apologize for this) hahahahaaaa!!


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## deafgal01

I wish. :haha: Yeah, it's funny to think about sex and know that DH's off limits for another um 7 days. :dohh: so frustrating but I'll be glad if the results tell us anything about our next steps to take. :shrug:


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## cbergs

Oh, sorry! I didn't realize he was off limits! 

I wasn't laughing at sex, in general...

I was laughing at the fact that this website has a "smiley face" sex icon! lol So funny and cute! Good luck in waiting. It sucks that you seem to want sex more when someone is telling you you can't have it! 

Infertility blows.


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## deafgal01

Yeah Carrie- infertility blows. He's not allowed to have any for 10 to 14 days due to having biopsy- there's stitches on his testes. Poor guy. So basically that means I probably won't have sex until I come home from camp to switch bags. :dohh: Oh well. I've gone long in between before. :shrug: Just not used to being told I can't have any. :haha:

Seriously who smiles while they're going at it in bed? I think I'm too focused on the feeling good part to remember to smile too??? :haha: :dohh: I wonder who invents these smilies.


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## Stinas

cbergs - Welcome and im sorry to see you here!....BUT you did find a great group! Azoo sucks...it sucks really bad, but it is what it is and we all need to just pull ourselves together and make the best out of it. Ask as many questions as you can and be as pushy to get results/apts as you can. Besides that, its all a waiting process. 
I know how overwhelming you must feel....we are the same age. I always thought infertility happens to "older" people...little did I know. You always have this perfect picture in your head of how your life is going to be and for something like this to swoop in and turn your world pretty much upside down is devastating. 

I have been dealing with this since March of this year, not as long as others, we were lucky enough to find docs that moved the process along. 
There are a ton of pages here, so here is my story...
DH is 33, healthy, never has had any surgeries or illnesses, bloods/hormones all normal. They found a cyst in his prostate, which doc says he could have been born with it, but could really be causing the blockage, as well as his varicocele. Tom is his biopsy, praying they find sperm, we will freeze it and I will be starting my IVF process this cycle. 

Everyone is different. I hope you get some answers asap!


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## Stinas

OH yeah....the way I cope with this on bad days, I go shopping and have a nice stiff drink afterwards lol


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## deafgal01

Stinas- :dust: Good luck tomorrow- hope they have some good news for you and your hubby!


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## Stinas

DG - thank you!!! Im super nervous!


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## deafgal01

Stinas- I was super nervous too. :thumbup: The biopsy is the easy part. :dohh: So once that is done, you'll be at ease but then of course there's the wait for the results. :grr: Makes me wish they'd give it to you right away. :shrug:


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## CanadianMaple

Hi everyone. I have been lurking but haven't been posting. I'm feeling kind of in between places right now. Since we're not going to look further at DH for sperm, I feel like of removed from all the posts about TESE, etc... I think it's still a bit of grieving and sometimes it's really difficult to think about. Since we are now moving down the donor sperm path, I have been searching for answers about donor sperm around the internet. 

Our first wedding anniversary is tomorrow, which will mark one year since we started TTC. It makes me so sad to think about how excited we were to TTC and how he had no idea how we would be hit hard with that azoo dx just before Christmas. But, it's also exciting to think that we are moving ahead. We may have found our donor but I struggle with not seeing an adult picture and have questions about the testing they do.

I have been thinking about all of you and am silently cheering you all on. Hopefully now that we're home from our marathon camping trip (gone 9 nights), I can settle back in here. It's amazing how diverse our journeys become after the original azoo dx.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Canadian :hugs:


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## MrsC8776

Hi ladies! Sorry it's been awhile since I posted last. I'm going to try to catch up. 

DG~ I'm so glad everything went well. Fx for a good report when your DH goes in. 

Raelynn~ Fx for you! 

Arimas and cbergs~ Welcome :hi:

WW~ Fx for a bfp! 

Stinas~ I hope everything goes well tomorrow. 

CM~ :hugs: There is so much to look through on the donors. Try not to stress about it to much. Maybe give the places a call and ask some questions. Thats what I did. 

AFM~ I'm just waiting for my beta on the 12th. I think I will test on Tuesday to see if anything shows up. I did test out my trigger and got a negative about 3 days ago.


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## raelynn

Stinas - Good luck tomorrow!

MrsC - I'm planning to test Tuesday too. Tested out my trigger already. I'm hoping I'm too sleepy tomorrow with being back to work to cave in and test but this 2ww has made me weak with holding out on testing. I just want to know!


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## MrsC8776

raelynn said:


> Stinas - Good luck tomorrow!
> 
> MrsC - I'm planning to test Tuesday too. Tested out my trigger already. I'm hoping I'm too sleepy tomorrow with being back to work to cave in and test but this 2ww has made me weak with holding out on testing. I just want to know!

I know what you mean. Waiting the last few days is the hardest part. I want to test tomorrow but I'm trying to tell myself that Tuesday will be better. Fx for both of us!


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## Stinas

DG - I get my results right away. Thats why I was wondering why you didnt. 

Mrs C & Raeylnn - Good luck!!! 

Canadian - Im happy for you maybe finding the right donor!! Thats exciting! I know its not exactly what you wanted to do, but once you get preg, it will feel like it is biologically DH's. You have gone a long way since finding out. 
Happy Anniversary! Many more!!! 

Thank you all for the best wishes! In about 8 hours from now I will know whats going on. Its exciting and nerve wracking too. Ill keep you all updated.


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## deafgal01

Stinas- I don't know why they couldn't give us our results (full report) right away. :shrug: I guess different places do things differently. :shrug: I'm not too worried as I'll find out while I'm at camp from Zach.


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## cbergs

Thanks, everyone, for the warm welcome!

Stinas- I am thinking of you today! :)

Hugs to all, we def need it.

-Carrie


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## Deb111

Gosh I've not had much chance to get on in the last few days and so much to catch up on

Arimas - welcome - so glad they found sperm and I wish you every luck with IVF #2 :thumbup:

CBerg - welcome - if you're looking for an active thread; you've definitely found it. You really will go through so many emotions and just when you think you've dealt with one, it will come back and rear it's ugly head! :shrug: I have to say, my main strength throughout all of this, has been this wonderful group of women. There really is nothing quite the same as talking to people who just 'get you'. So ask as many questions as you want, rant away, scream, shout, do whatever you need :hugs:

Stinas - good luck with the biopsy - I guess you may have your results by now?? I really hope and pray it is good news :hugs:

CM - Happy Anniversary hun :flower: Anniversaries always bring things to the fore and it can be tough, but it's also so exciting that you're moving on with your journey 

MrsC and Rae - good luck with testing on Tuesday - I'm keeping everything crossed for you and the rest of you in the 2WW

Hugs to anyone I've missed xx


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## Deb111

As someone else mentioned, the thread is pretty long now, so for the newbies, my story in a nutshell ...

- I'm 38 and hubby is 46. We met 6 years ago and got married in 2008. We started trying for a family immediately - nothing happened. I 'knew' something was wrong.

- Got a referral to a fertility clinic and in April 2010, hubby was diagnosed with azoospermia 

- Not a blockage and so the only way to see if any sperm were being made was a random biopsy which the NHS did in Oct 2010. 3 very healthy and precious sperm found, but they got rid of them as they said their minimum criteria for freezing was 100. We were told our only options were adoption or donor sperm.

- Decided that we couldn't accept this until we had totally exhausted our opportunities. So we tracked down a highly recommended private urologist, who felt he could help us. So in Oct 2011, after 3 months of tamoxifen / anastrazole for hubby, he performed a microTESE operation on the same day as my EC and managed to find between 30 and 40 sperm - so still TINY numbers!!

- By this time, my fertility levels had dropped more than they should have for someone my age, but they managed to get 8 mature eggs from me. 3 fertilised and went to blastocyst.

- 2 were transferred back in Oct 2011 but :bfn:

- They were not sure if the other one would go to blastocyst and be good enough to freeze as it was a day behind development-wise, but the following day they called to say all was good and it was in the deep freeze

- So, jump forward to 14th Feb 2012 and we had the final frozen embryo transferred and the rest is history and here we are :bfp:


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## wibble wobble

Hey I'm also thinking of testing tomorrow MrsC and Rae

welcome to thread cbergs

Canadian happy anniversary 

Good luck for the biopsy tomorrow Stinas

Snd hope you've not gone too crazy on your 2ww


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## Deb111

Good luck WW :thumbup: xx


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## Stinas

Thank you all for the wonderful warm wishes!!! 
I wish I could tell you all good news, but unfortunately, they only found a few sperm. To the doctors surprise(and mine), he has come to the conclusion that it is a reproduction issue. The sample is being look at further by the lab people, whatever they call them I cant remember right now. The ARE going to freeze anything they find, no matter what the amount. 
Devastated is an understatement right now. I knew it was not going to be millions, but as the time went by in the waiting room I just knew that something was wrong. DH is depressed and just kept apologizing to me in the recovery room....which made me feel a ton worse. At least he had a sense of humor while he was in there...yelling as I walked towards him, telling me he drank 2 bottles of Grey Goose Vodka all by himself lol I am proud of myself for holding back the tears until I got him home and asleep...but I did break down when I called my mom, she is on summer vacation in europe. 
Doc said he will be calling us tom with more info. He said he can put dh on meds and see what happens, but dh said a million of times today that he is not doing this surgery again. He actually wants to see if we can go ahead with whatever sperm we did find and continue with the IVF. I was told to start my BCP tom, but will be calling my IVF doc tom to see what she thinks about the sperm. 
DH is feeling ok right now. He has a ton of gauze in that jock strap undies, so he is walking like a duck. He was complaining earlier about a weird tugging slight pain under his belly button, pressure somewhat...but besides that hes pretty good. In and out of sleep mostly today, but then again, we only slept maybe 2 hours last night and was at docs from 6am to 12....and let me tell you....it was a FREEZER in there! I swear my toes started turning blue! 
hmmmm.....thats about it for now I guess. 

Deb reading your story makes me have hope. I actually thought of you after the doc told me the news....i was thinking it sounded somewhat familiar. 

I just feel like im back at square one.....back at the why me stage. This just sucks.


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## raelynn

WW/MrsC - Good luck tomorrow! I'm so nervous!

Stinas - So sorry the results were not what you were expecting but at least they found some! Sad your hubby was apologizing. This diagnosis is so hard on them! We had very few sperm found, similar to Deb, and still were able to have two embryos for IVF so you should be ok to continue there. My hubby has been the same with discussions of another TESE if this IVF round doesn't work. He's not sure he would want to do another plus the cost added on to another round of IVF costs. This stuff sure is tough! :hugs:to you girl!


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## MrsC8776

WW~ Fx for all of us tomorrow! 

Stinas~ :hugs: I'm so sorry. Theres a chance that they will find more while looking so don't give up hope. All you need is a few for IVF/ICSI. Of course we all believe more is better but the ones you get will become your little one. I can see how this news would make you take a few steps back though. :hugs: I hope you and your DH are ok.


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## cbergs

Good luck to the ladies testing tomorrow. Fingers crossed and prayers for you both!

Stinas- THEY FOUND SPERM! BIG happy face! Though not many, but enough to make a baby. I have all the hope in the world for you! 

We went to our first RE appt. today...but it felt unnecessary. Of course, IF they find sperm in my husband THEN we will need her- but until then- we await DH's b/w and 3rd SA results. 

-CB


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## deafgal01

Oh Stinas :hugs: It's hard to hear the news when it's few sperms. :hugs: But it's not all hopes lost cause. Like the other ladies already mentioned- it only takes one sperm (or a few) to turn one egg into an embryo. :hugs: I'm curious to hear what your dr says about the bcp, whether you should or not get back on that.


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## deafgal01

MrsC, WW, and Rae- :dust: GOOD LUCK tomorrow! I shall be checking in first thing tomorrow to see if you all got bfps or not. I hope for bfps for you so that you can continue your journey on to the pregnancy part!


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## Stinas

Thank you ladies!!! Its really hard to hear just a few sperm were found, but we do have some hope.


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## tigerlily1975

:hi: lovelies!

I hope you're all fine and dandy :flower:

Ooh, GOOD LUCK to Rae, Wibble and MrsC! We'd love some BFPs on here.. us Azoo aunties need more bubbas to coo over!

SND, when are you testing, hun?

Hello, cbergs! Firstly :hugs: The wonderful Deb summed it up perfectly, if you need us, we're always here! I hope your test results come back with some good news.

CM: BIG :hugs: on their way to you, darling. It's been over a year now since we got the diagnosis. I'm not sure if it gets any easier or maybe we just get better at handling it. Just remember, take one day at a time :hugs:

Deb: How are you doing, hun? I must pop over and catch-up on your journal! 

DG: How's hubby doing? Is he getting around okay now?

Stinas: Big :hugs: to you honey! I completely understand where you are coming from. All we know from the selective examination of DH's tissue is there was one immotile sperm and one 'twitching'... ??! The hospital have frozen those samples and pressed ahead with ICSI... ??! It's almost a fertility mantra but 'you only need one!' is what we have to keep reminding ourselves and also that we're just so lucky to have some (one!) at all. I'm sure once you've let it sink in, it's actually AMAZING news. 

Silverbell: Not sure if you're out there, darling, but I hope you're okay :hugs:

I'm so sorry if I've missed anyone - I always do! Doh! 

Much love and :hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

I'm pretty sure someone (Deb?) has posted this before, but it's a story that gives me a lot of hope. Stinas, you might appreciate it too, right now.

Link: miracle-baby-born-from-single-frozen-sperm

C xx


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## raelynn

BFN this morning for me with ic. I'm saving one of my 2 FRERs for tomorrow but I'm disappointed and starting to lose hope...8dp3dt


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Rae :hugs:

DH is doing just fine. He's starting to do more things for himself. He says it's sore now and it feels weird to be walking around but he's not sitting all day icing it now so that's something. He's iced it all day Thursday and Friday. Half of the day Saturday. A little on Sunday in the morning. Only felt uncomfortable twinges (so Stinas- that's normal apparently). Just now noticed bruising on his penis (but the paper says that is normal too). :shrug:


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## rdleela

Hi, ladies, been quite awhile since I posted, but I've been reading everything, don't you worry!

Welcome to all the new girls!

Canadian, Happy 1st Anniversary! The first one is special, congrats!

Stinas, I am so, so sorry to hear that they only found a few sperm...I think you will know a lot more when they let you know what they found after taking a closer look...Just hang on to the hope that they can use them and you can start IVF! Big, big hugs from up north!

AFM, STILL WAITING on our surgery date for hubby to have his blockage repaired. Been waiting 5 weeks today. I emailed the surgeon yesterday, hoping for an update or some sort of news, we can't plan anything this summer cause we have no idea when the surgery will be! I had an appointment with a fertility clinic that I was really disappointed in, you can just read my journal for that post if you are interested.

I am not posting much b/c I am not going through what any of you other ladies are going through at the moment. We're not doing IVF or donor sperm/IUI (at this moment, lol) so I really don't have much to post about with you ladies (plus just been playing the stupid waiting game for 5 weeks), but DO KNOW that I am sending baby dust to each and every one of you all the time! :hugs:


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## MrsC8776

raelynn~ :hugs: Sorry about the bfn this morning. Don't give up yet because there is still time. 

DG~ I'm glad your DH is doing better. Sounds like the healing process is moving quickly. 

rdleela~ I hope you hear something soon. The waiting game is never fun. 

AFM~ I tested this morning. I think I can see something but then again I don't know. I might be going crazy. :shrug: I'm just going to keep testing until my beta on Thursday.


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## deafgal01

MrsC- hope the line gets darker then your beta will confirm you're getting your bfp finally.


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## CanadianMaple

Hi girls!

First of all MrsC8776- If you see something, that's awesome! They always say a line is a line. It would still be super faint at this point. Did you use a FRER test? I have my fingers crossed!

raelynn- It's still early, I think most don't see anything that early. Don't give up yet, lots of sticky vibes to you.

rdleela- I know what you mean, it's hard to think about what to post when you're in the waiting mode. I always find it hard to be waiting when things are moving along for everyone else. Waiting is so hard and so frustrating. If I were you, I would make some plans for the summer since it's too short to waste it. Even plan shorter trips that are flexible or you could cancel if you need to.

DG- I'm glad to hear your DH is healing well and things are feeling better for him.


tigerlily1975- Thank you for your post. Anniversaries really take you back, don't they? I hope you are doing well.

Stinas- I'm so happy to hear they found some sperm. They told us that we would have been lucky if they only found 1 or 2 dozen. I hope they are good enough quality and will be enough to get your baby. :)

I know I am missing some people from other pages. I hope you're all well too.

AFM- We had a really nice first anniversary. It was crazy how many baby references there were in the speeches and the interviews they did. Just looking at us and knowing what we were about to go through was kind of bittersweet. But, we really have come a long way this year and I believe it will make us stronger.

I spoke to the clinic today. They are waiting for our results to come in. I am getting her to ask the RE about the risk of getting herpes or HPV with donor sperm. Only one sperm bank actually tests for those and we don't see any donors we like with Fairfax. I may take the pill for an extra few days so I don't have to worry about missing a family reunion because of the IUI timing. We opted for Clomid with a trigger shot because I get so many +OPK tests because of my LH. I don't want to miss my surge. If only we would decide on our donor. We have two we like.


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## Pink Lolly

Rae - don't give up yet xxx

Mrs C - really hoping you get a positive beta! 

Sending you both heaps of :dust: xxx


----------



## Stinas

I love you ladies!!! I cant event begin to tell you all how much you have helped me. I would be going nuts if it were not for you all!! 

We got good news today!!! They have 2 vials of sperm!!!! You only need one per cycle of IVF! So we are going ahead with IVF this cycle!! I start my BCP tonight! We literally just got the news. We have been in limbo since leaving the surgery. 

DH is pretty sore today and walking like a duck because he is swollen. Getting this news makes him feel better...last night he was saying he felt even worse because it was like he went though this for nothing. He didnt get much sleep last night, so hopefully he can get some today. 

Tiger - Thank you!!! I guess the IVF sperm docs know more than the urologists doing the actual biopsy. Thank god! Thanks for the link!!!

raelynn - Please dont lose hope! You still have time!!! :hugs:

DG - Glad to hear DH is up and about! I cant wait for mine to be like that. We are leaving for the Bahamas on sunday, so I really hope he can do something then. I know the pool and ocean are out of the question, but I just want him to be able to try to forget everything and have a good time. 

rdleela - Thank you!!! Waiting truly sucks. I hope and pray you get your surgery date very soon! Dont hold back on your vacation plans....you need the get away. 

MrsC - oooo...I hope this is it for you!!! Sending you tons of :dust:

CM - Thank you!! Im happy to hear you had a great anniversary!!! Many more to you both!!! I know its been a heck of a year for you both, but I do believe it has and will bring you much closer and stronger. I wish you both all the luck in the world with this IUI. You deserve it!
I wonder why dont all the sperm banks test for those? I would imagine they should test for everything? Weird....but I guess they know what they should and shouldnt look for?


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## deafgal01

Stinas- that's awesome news! :wohoo: Bring it on! We need more babies/bfps to get excited over in this forum to be shining lights of examples to others who are in the same boat. :thumbup: 2 vials is great!!!!!


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## Stinas

DG - Thank you soooo much!!! Im beyond excited! Shocked to tell you the truth. I went to get some food at the mall(yes, DH special request for fast food) and saw all these preg ladies and tons of strollers....i never ran sooo fast out of there...tears were running down my face by the time I got to the car. Five min after getting home we got the call!


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## deafgal01

:cloud9: Awww... :hugs: That had to be hard to see at the mall when fetching food for your DH. :hugs: Give him extra love this week. Hopefully he'll be all set for vacation when you guys leave on Sunday.


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## Deb111

Stinas - that's fantastic news!!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:

MrsC - I hope that line gets darker - so excited for you!

Rae - sorry about the :bfn: but it's still very early - I didn't have a hint of a line until OTD (14 dpo equivalent)


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## raelynn

Thanks ladies. I tweaked my test from this morning and I may have crazy line eye at this point but I think I see a hint of something. Of course now I have myself convinced its still the trigger since it is hardly visible if it is even really there. Ugh, can't win. Taking a FRER tomorrow morning and hopefully have some better news.

MrsC - Hoping you have the start of your BFP!

Wibble wobble - How did your test go today?


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## cbergs

Stinas- AMAZING!! Told youuu!!! :)

To the ladies testing, good luck!

Again, LOVE this forum and the support that I feel from ALL of you. My heart goes out to you all as well as some extra special prayers. Hope y'all feel them!

-Carrie


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- You must be over the moon!

I hope no one minds, but I started a thread for donor sperm IUI in the other forum. I kind of feel like now that we have stepped away from trying to find sperm in DH, I've been feeling like our new journey doesn't really apply to azoo in a sense. I'm not leaving here though, you all have been such support during my darkest times.


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## CanadianMaple

Deb- Can change the front page to say: We have ruled out mTESE and am on BCP, preparing for a dIUI with clomid and a trigger shot. IUI planned for the end of July or very first week of August.

Thanks! :)


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## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> Thanks ladies. I tweaked my test from this morning and I may have crazy line eye at this point but I think I see a hint of something. Of course now I have myself convinced its still the trigger since it is hardly visible if it is even really there. Ugh, can't win. Taking a FRER tomorrow morning and hopefully have some better news.
> 
> MrsC - Hoping you have the start of your BFP!
> 
> Wibble wobble - How did your test go today?

I didn't have a test to use fmu on so I tried to hold on as long as possible for the second of the day got bfn I'm 7dp5dt so 12 days post ov. I have more test may do 1 tomorrow with fmu... not having many symptoms either just a headache today and my face is getting quite spotty :cry:


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## CanadianMaple

WW- I keep forgetting you didn't do IUI. I think you still have a shot, especially if you didn't get to use FMU. I still have my fingers crossed for you.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh WW hang in there :hugs:


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## raelynn

WW - I'm right there with you on the dreaded BFN. I'm really worried this didn't work. Hopefully we both get a surprise BFP soon!

I've been cramping on and off again today. Been like this since about 4dp3dt but I've heard the progesterone can cause cramping so I'm not reading too much into it.


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## MrsC8776

Stinas~ That is amazing news! I'm so happy for you guys. 

raelynn~ Good luck tomorrow! Cramping may be a good sign. 

WW~ No giving up yet. Use smu tomorrow and good luck! 

:dust::dust:


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## raelynn

Faintest of faint lines on the FRER this morning. I thought it was another negative until I squinted at it. Could it be the trigger still? I'm 14 days passed trigger and 9dp3dt (12dpo)


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## MJ73

OMG! BFPS! Amazing! Keeping my fingers crossed for everyone.

*Rae*,I doubt it's the trigger that far down the line. Will you test again tomorrow?

*MrsC*, I hope that line gets darker too!

*WW*, hang in there hun, it's still early days :hugs:

*Stinas*; awesome news! That sounds like heaps of :spermy: to me!

*DG*, how are you & hubby doing?

*CM*, happy anniversary. Anniversaries are always tough. Glad you're both on with DS :hugs:

Welcome *Carrie*; you're in the right place for support here :hugs:

To anyone else who is just waiting, please know that you're not alone. I know how tough it is when it seems like things are moving along for others. Hang in there sweeties; your time will come.:hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## MJ73

By the way, for those of you testing. I only trust FRER on FMU. Remember, a line is a line is a line:thumbup:


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## deafgal01

MJ- funny you should ask that... We just saw a comic picture in facebook that I had not seen before. Maybe you'll have a laugh at it. We're doing fine... He forgot for a second not to lay on his belly and accidentally hurt himself but he's fine.
 



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## MrsC8776

raelynn~ I'm excited for you! Fx the line gets darker. 

MJ~ You are so sweet. Thank you for your wonderful words to everyone. 

DG~ That pic is so funny! I'm glad your DH is doing well. Sorry to hear that he caused himself a little pain though. 

AFM~ The line got darker this morning and a digital worked. We got our bfp! It's been a journey but we are more than happy. Thank you ladies for all your wonderful support. :hugs:


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## CanadianMaple

Congratulations MrsC!!!!! Yay! You must be over the moon!

raelynn- It sounds like a positive to me!

AFM- I just realized my IUI will probably happen on Aug 2 or 3. I have 1 week of pills left and they plan to do the trigger at CD11.


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## wibble wobble

Congrats Raelynn hope that line gets stronger 

afm 13dpo and test was still bfn... it's superdrug own brand and even though on the packet it says early test inside it says from 15dpo so I'm still in with a chance I guess. If anything seeing a bfn will have prepared me for Otd if it doesn't change... every cloud and all 

I don't really feel anything at the minute just this headache that wont seem to go, no cramps, no sore boobs, no implant bleed, no bloat

Going to take a day off from testing tomorrow and just test on otd but going to get a clear blue digi at least I wont have to try and figure out if I can see a line... the words will be final


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## wibble wobble

MrsC8776 said:


> raelynn~ I'm excited for you! Fx the line gets darker.
> 
> MJ~ You are so sweet. Thank you for your wonderful words to everyone.
> 
> DG~ That pic is so funny! I'm glad your DH is doing well. Sorry to hear that he caused himself a little pain though.
> 
> AFM~ The line got darker this morning and a digital worked. We got our bfp! It's been a journey but we are more than happy. Thank you ladies for all your wonderful support. :hugs:

just missed this as I was writing my post at the same time BIG congrats to you


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## CanadianMaple

wibble wobble- I hope you get that BFP. It's not over until AF shows. I have a friend who has been pregnant 4 times and never got a BFP until about 14 or 15dpo.


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## MrsC8776

CanadianMaple said:


> Congratulations MrsC!!!!! Yay! You must be over the moon!
> 
> raelynn- It sounds like a positive to me!
> 
> AFM- I just realized my IUI will probably happen on Aug 2 or 3. I have 1 week of pills left and they plan to do the trigger at CD11.

Thank you! We are so happy. 

Thats great that you have a date set. Fx for you! 



wibble wobble said:


> MrsC8776 said:
> 
> 
> raelynn~ I'm excited for you! Fx the line gets darker.
> 
> MJ~ You are so sweet. Thank you for your wonderful words to everyone.
> 
> DG~ That pic is so funny! I'm glad your DH is doing well. Sorry to hear that he caused himself a little pain though.
> 
> AFM~ The line got darker this morning and a digital worked. We got our bfp! It's been a journey but we are more than happy. Thank you ladies for all your wonderful support. :hugs:
> 
> just missed this as I was writing my post at the same time BIG congrats to youClick to expand...

Thank you! Don't give up hope yet because there is still a chance. You are not out until AF shows. Good luck. :hugs:


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## ShortyA22

Hey Ladies.. I havent been on in a while to update, but been dealing with all the meds and hormones :wacko:

Well.. My body responded very well to the meds and during the last ultrasound.. on Sunday July 8 (My Bday) They saw 36 follicles and I had 17 that were where they wanted them to be.. I did my Trigger shot(Ovidrel) that night at 8:30pm and was Scheduled for transfer yesterday July 10th

Well, Retreival went well.. They retrieved 13 really good eggs. I was pretty nausea from the anestesia and pretty crampy and bloated. My dr told me to make sure to stay hydrated and drink lots of gatorade and eat lots of chicken noodle soup:winkwink:

I got the call today.. Out of 13 eggs- 2 didnt look that great so they fertilized 11 with ICSI. Right now we have 8 perfect Embies and they will call tomorrow to let me know if transfer will be Friday or Sunday

Do any of you have advice on the 3day vs 5day transfer? Im curious if one is better than the other.. My clinic says if more than 6 make it then they rather do 5 day..so I guess thats why they will wait and call tomorrow to see if all still are doing good!


Good Luck to everyone


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## CanadianMaple

ShortyA- That's great news!! I don't know anything about transfers, but just wanted to wish you well.

I just called my husband's insurance company. Nothing is covered. Not the Clomid, not the trigger, nothing. :(


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## wibble wobble

Shorty they say at day 5 only the best embies will be left therefore it's easier for them to choose the best looking 1. Loads of women get pregnant from 3 or even 2 day transfers tho, I guess int he end you just have to trust in what your clinic believes is best. Will you be freezing any embies?


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## wibble wobble

Where's Snd got to? Missing you girl :( hope you are ok x


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## Deb111

WW - spots are a good sign and it's still early - keeping everything crossed :thumbup:

MrsC - huge congrats hun! That's fantastic news :happydance:

Rae - still keeping everything crossed for you too :thumbup:

Shorty - great news - hope all continues to go well. As WW said, you have to put your faith in the clinic. We weren't given the choice really - we were told it would be a 3 day transfer because of the fact we only had 3 fertilised, but they phoned that morning to say they were all doing really well and couldn't distinguish between them and wanted to wait until day 5 so they could pick the best. Ironically, the 2 best didn't implant and the poorest that was a day behind and frozen on day 6 was the one that resulted in our :bfp: :wacko:


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## raelynn

MrsC - Super happy for you!! We're going out to get a digital after our date night tonight. Hubby is the one that wants to see the words...so cute. 

Wibble wobble - Keeping my fingers crossed for you! My line is still barely there so you're definitely still in it! I thought for sure the lines would be darker at this point but I was very wrong. Is your OTD friday? I think I remember you saying that. Mine is too so hopefully it is a good luck day all around!

SND - How are things with you? I know you were a part of this testing group too. Hope we hear your BFP soon!

I took an ic just now on my lunch break and hubby and I both see a line again! And that is without fmu. I trust hubby more than me because his eyes aren't as good so if he sees it, it must be there!


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## ShortyA22

wibble wobble said:


> Shorty they say at day 5 only the best embies will be left therefore it's easier for them to choose the best looking 1. Loads of women get pregnant from 3 or even 2 day transfers tho, I guess int he end you just have to trust in what your clinic believes is best. Will you be freezing any embies?

Yes we will be freezing what's left over just in case... I hope it all works out either way


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## MrsC8776

raelynn said:


> MrsC - Super happy for you!! We're going out to get a digital after our date night tonight. Hubby is the one that wants to see the words...so cute.
> 
> Wibble wobble - Keeping my fingers crossed for you! My line is still barely there so you're definitely still in it! I thought for sure the lines would be darker at this point but I was very wrong. Is your OTD friday? I think I remember you saying that. Mine is too so hopefully it is a good luck day all around!
> 
> SND - How are things with you? I know you were a part of this testing group too. Hope we hear your BFP soon!
> 
> I took an ic just now on my lunch break and hubby and I both see a line again! And that is without fmu. I trust hubby more than me because his eyes aren't as good so if he sees it, it must be there!

Congrats to you as well! I'm so excited for you. I didn't think the digital would work today but honestly when I tested I used one of each kind I had. It's a little embarrassing but I used a FRER, ic, Walmart test, and the digital. :blush: The ic and Walmart test were so faint and the FRER was dark. I guess when going through fertility treatment we have to stock up on tests because so much money is put out in other places. I'm excited for you to test again!


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## Stinas

MrsC - YAYYYYYYYYY CONGRATSSS!!!!!

raelynn - I say it sounds like a positive to me!!

wibble wobble - I agree with CC...your still not out yet.

Shorty - Thats great news!! Good luck with the transfer!

CC - Insurances suck big time!!!

As for me...took my first BCP last night. DH is still really sore...fevers on and off. I feel soo bad and helpless. I hope he is better by sunday or else we might have to cancel our trip.


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## raelynn

Stinas - So sorry about your hubby. Has he been keeping ice on it and taking the pain meds? Hopefully it eases up soon

MrsC - I totally agree about the tests. I've been using expired ic since I already had them. Apparently they still work but I just noticed the other day they say expired May 2011. We've been trying to hold out on buying more tests but we're breaking down for the digital because we're just too excited. They're so expensive for something you just pee on!!


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## Stinas

raelynn - Yes he has been icing it. He still has it in the jock strap thing they gave him. I took all of the gauze they had in there yesterday, just left one small piece where the incisions are. Going to convince him to shower tonight lol He says they feel less swollen today, but more sensitive. He has been taking the meds....sleeping on and off. Hopefully hes out and about tom.


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## cbergs

CanadianMaple said:


> Stinas- You must be over the moon!
> 
> I hope no one minds, but I started a thread for donor sperm IUI in the other forum. I kind of feel like now that we have stepped away from trying to find sperm in DH, I've been feeling like our new journey doesn't really apply to azoo in a sense. I'm not leaving here though, you all have been such support during my darkest times.

I will be sure to check up on ya over there. I am such in the beginning stages, and I might need to mosey on over to that thread- depending on where the good Lord takes us.

I'll also be following your blog! :flower:

I wish you the best of luck in bringing your miracle baby into this world. It will definitely happen, and I'm sure no matter HOW- you and your husband will be filled with joy from the second you see that little "sac" in your first US. 

Take care and God bless,

Carrie


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## deafgal01

Stinas- hope your husband is feeling better by now Not fun to have him battling fevers in addition with the pain. :hugs: Having a shower might make him feel more closer to normal. :hugs:


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## Deb111

Stinas - sorry dh is still struggling. Have you mentioned the fevers to the clinic or your doctor? It could be a sign of an infection x


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## ShortyA22

Well.. Got the call from the office-- still have 8 good embryos and transfer will be Sunday- doing day 5 transfer


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## CanadianMaple

That's so exciting Shorty!! How many are you putting back in?


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## raelynn

Congrats, Shorty! That's great news!


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## MrsC8776

Raelynn~ How are your tests looking? Did you buy a digital? Good luck tomorrow! 

WW and snd~ Any news? 

stinas~ I hope your dh is feeling better today

Shorty~ That is great news! 

AFM~ Beta at 11dpo is 94.26. I will go back for another one on Monday.


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## ShortyA22

CanadianMaple said:


> That's so exciting Shorty!! How many are you putting back in?

We are putting 2 back in! Thanks


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## raelynn

MrsC8776 said:


> Raelynn~ How are your tests looking? Did you buy a digital? Good luck tomorrow!
> 
> WW and snd~ Any news?
> 
> stinas~ I hope your dh is feeling better today
> 
> Shorty~ That is great news!
> 
> AFM~ Beta at 11dpo is 94.26. I will go back for another one on Monday.

I did buy a digital and it came back 'pregnant' today. Excited for beta tomorrow!

Really glad you had a great beta today! Hoping it continues to rise for Monday's!


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## CanadianMaple

MrsC- That beta is awesome. I thought you would have been around 30!

Raelynn- Congratulations!! I'm so, so happy it worked out the first try for you!! 

Just wondering if any of you had advice for me. As you all know, we are moving towards using a donor, my new cycle starts in less than 2 weeks. DH was hesitant but after getting his family's absolute blessing and speaking to the RE about how low his odds were for a biochild with mTESE, he wholeheartedly wanted to proceed with donor sperm. We even have our donor picked out.

So, we get home from looking at cars, since we found out today he needs a new one. There was a strange voicemail on the phone from his brother, with a Bible verse for him to read. (They are all Catholics.) He called to ask what that was all about, and it was his mom, again with another verse about miracles and how she just knows we are going to conceive naturally. :( We have explained over and over what azoospermia is and she seems to stick with the "it just takes one!" mentality. I think she really is supportive of DS, but is holding on tight for a miracle. DH is upset and won't even talk to me about it right now. I know having his parents on board really helped him accept this next stage.

So here I am, feeling bad because DH is so upset and now in a panic about trying to juggle payments for a car amongst fertility treatments and a potential maternity leave. 

Any advice about how to approach MIL? I will let DH do it, but I know he is going to want to know what to say to her.


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## MrsC8776

raelynn said:


> MrsC8776 said:
> 
> 
> Raelynn~ How are your tests looking? Did you buy a digital? Good luck tomorrow!
> 
> WW and snd~ Any news?
> 
> stinas~ I hope your dh is feeling better today
> 
> Shorty~ That is great news!
> 
> AFM~ Beta at 11dpo is 94.26. I will go back for another one on Monday.
> 
> I did buy a digital and it came back 'pregnant' today. Excited for beta tomorrow!
> 
> Really glad you had a great beta today! Hoping it continues to rise for Monday's!Click to expand...

Thank you! 

:happydance: That is wonderful news! I'm so excited for you and can't wait to hear how it goes tomorrow. 



CanadianMaple said:


> MrsC- That beta is awesome. I thought you would have been around 30!
> 
> Raelynn- Congratulations!! I'm so, so happy it worked out the first try for you!!
> 
> Just wondering if any of you had advice for me. As you all know, we are moving towards using a donor, my new cycle starts in less than 2 weeks. DH was hesitant but after getting his family's absolute blessing and speaking to the RE about how low his odds were for a biochild with mTESE, he wholeheartedly wanted to proceed with donor sperm. We even have our donor picked out.
> 
> So, we get home from looking at cars, since we found out today he needs a new one. There was a strange voicemail on the phone from his brother, with a Bible verse for him to read. (They are all Catholics.) He called to ask what that was all about, and it was his mom, again with another verse about miracles and how she just knows we are going to conceive naturally. :( We have explained over and over what azoospermia is and she seems to stick with the "it just takes one!" mentality. I think she really is supportive of DS, but is holding on tight for a miracle. DH is upset and won't even talk to me about it right now. I know having his parents on board really helped him accept this next stage.
> 
> So here I am, feeling bad because DH is so upset and now in a panic about trying to juggle payments for a car amongst fertility treatments and a potential maternity leave.
> 
> Any advice about how to approach MIL? I will let DH do it, but I know he is going to want to know what to say to her.

Thank you! I'm a little shocked it is so high. 

Sorry to hear about the situation with MIL and your DH. Can you show her some research? Get some info from the clinic showing what exactly everything means? Has your DH told her how he feels and how excited he was to do this? I know it was a struggle at first but maybe if she knew how happy he was to get started she would stop saying things like that. I'm sure it's hard on both of you. Everyone would love to be able to conceive the natural way or have their dh's bio child but for some people it's just not possible. :( Sorry you are dealing with this. :hugs:


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## raelynn

Canadian Maple - I can understand on the religious front since I'm part of a very actively Christian family. I always thought of it kind of like this story --

A man is sitting on his porch as flood waters rise. A woman floats by in a boat, asking if the man needs help. "No, thank you," says the man, "I'm trusting in the Lord." The waters rise higher, sending the man upstairs. A raft full of people floats by his second story window. "Get in," they say, "there's plenty of room." "No thanks," says the man, "I'm trusting in the Lord." The flood waters keep rising, pushing the man up to the roof. A helicopter swoops in, lowering its ladder for the man. "Thanks anyway," shouts the man, "I'm trusting in the Lord." Finally, the man is swept away in the torrent and drowns. At the gates of Heaven, the man asks God, "Why didn't you save me?" "What do you mean?'' replies God, "I sent two boats and a helicopter."

--Basically, we can trust in miracles all we want but sometimes God sends us a miracle and we have to help out a little. Maybe your miracle of having a child is coming through donor sperm. Donor sperm just might be your 'two boats and a helicopter'. I don't know if this helps but that is the approach I took with IVF. Sometimes we have to go down a different path than expected and that path leads us right to God's plan for us all along. Think of it like this - if your heart was failing and you needed a transplant, would you just sit idly by and say 'No thanks, I'm waiting for my _natural _miracle'? Hopefully that approach can help your DH feel a little better about it and maybe even give him something to discuss with his family.


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## CanadianMaple

Thank you for that Raelynn. I'm crying. You're so right.


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## esuzanne

Oh my goodness! How wonderful to come back after many days of being away to so many wonderful posts!!! Congrats and good luck to you!!! :happydance:

I love reading about each couples story as it gives me hope and also helps me remember that we are not alone. I have tried to follow everyone very closely but its hard as I seem to be up one day and down the next and just not into talking. It is getting much better but still hard. 

After DH had the biopsy, they of course found nothing. Then we moved onto testing him for Klinefelters and we found out today that the test came back normal. We had accepted that we would use a donor and even met with a fertility clinic that we loved! We did all of the required bloodwork and I was given a prescription for Clomid. We basically had it all figured out....and now we are back to square one it feels like. Our fertility clinic suggested a urologist who specializes in Male Infertility who could perform the MicroTESE. We were also told that it could be another genetic issue such as deletion of part of one of the chromosomes...It just doesnt seem that we can do onwith DIUI if we still arent sure. 

I would love to hear if any of you have experienced a similar situation?? Thank you all for still being so accepting even when I am unable to keep up! :hug:


----------



## ShortyA22

raelynn said:


> MrsC8776 said:
> 
> 
> Raelynn~ How are your tests looking? Did you buy a digital? Good luck tomorrow!
> 
> WW and snd~ Any news?
> 
> stinas~ I hope your dh is feeling better today
> 
> Shorty~ That is great news!
> 
> AFM~ Beta at 11dpo is 94.26. I will go back for another one on Monday.
> 
> I did buy a digital and it came back 'pregnant' today. Excited for beta tomorrow!
> 
> Really glad you had a great beta today! Hoping it continues to rise for Monday's!Click to expand...



Congrats!!!!


----------



## tigerlily1975

Aloha everyone :hi:

I hope you're all well :flower:

CONGRATULATIONS MrsC and Rae!! :happydance: That's fantastic!! :dance::yipee: More Azoo babies, it's wonderful :wohoo:

Wibble :hugs: BUT it's not over yet, keeping everything crossed for you, hun.

Shorty, that's fantastic news! :happydance: Good luck for ET! 

CM, big :hugs: to you, darling. This whole journey feels like two-steps forward, one-step back. Along the lines of what the lovely Rae said, miracles are sometimes sent to us in a round-a-bout way. Again, I think someone said on here, that if we weren't meant to have children, then God wouldn't have created people (scientists) with the ability to create these marvellous methods in order for us to become pregnant. I'm sure with a little coaxing AND time the in-laws will be over the moon with a gorgeous grandchild, YOUR child, to coo over. 

Hello esuzanne :hugs: Good to hear from you! That's great that you are both comfortable with going ahead with DIUI - there have been some great successes on here! I think it's that whole question of whether you want to pursue all avenues before heading down that route, but of course there's always the COST issue too. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that you'll get the result you want. Ah, if ONLY it were a guarantee, I think we'd all be throwing our money at urologists! Good luck, darling!

Stinas and DG, I hope your hubbies are doing well :hugs:

SND, hope you're okay? :hugs:

AND to anyone else who I've missed (again!), BIIIIIG :hugs: :hugs:

AFM, I am in the countryside, one of those ye olde English villages where all the land is owned by a Lord (I'm not even kidding here!) and I'm baby-sitting TEENAGERS. I start my injections next week and ladies, trying to get teenagers to go to bed at 5AM in the morning is seriously giving me doubts about this whole baby-making thing!! If you've got a moment, please spare a thought for my dwindling sanity!:haha:

Have a fabulous weekend, lovelies!

C xx


----------



## MrsC8776

Good luck today raelynn!!

tigerlily~ Good luck with the injections and the teenagers. :thumbup:

esuzanne~ Thats great that the test came back normal. What tigerlily said is exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## snd80

Just a quick update... will be back later. Alot has been going on, but I tested this morning and negative.... suppost to test again tomorrow, but don't know for what. Hope everyone is well and congrats to those who got their's.


----------



## snd80

wibble wobble said:


> Where's Snd got to? Missing you girl :( hope you are ok x

Thank you, but I'm not.


----------



## deafgal01

DH is feeling more normal each passing day and starting to do more things around the house again so things are back to semi-normal now.

I'm going away to camp for 2 weeks so won't be around as much. *Wishing all of you good luck in anything* that will come up over that time I'll be gone but definitely expect to hear a short note from me on the 23rd when I get the results of DH's biopsy.


----------



## MrsC8776

snd80 said:


> Just a quick update... will be back later. Alot has been going on, but I tested this morning and negative.... suppost to test again tomorrow, but don't know for what. Hope everyone is well and congrats to those who got their's.

I'm sorry about the bfn :hugs: Don't give up because you are not out until AF shows. 



deafgal01 said:


> DH is feeling more normal each passing day and starting to do more things around the house again so things are back to semi-normal now.
> 
> I'm going away to camp for 2 weeks so won't be around as much. *Wishing all of you good luck in anything* that will come up over that time I'll be gone but definitely expect to hear a short note from me on the 23rd when I get the results of DH's biopsy.

I'm glad your dh is feeling better. Have fun at camp and we look forward to good news on the 23rd!


----------



## Deb111

Snd - still keeping everything crossed for you hun :hugs:

CM - I'm sorry about the inlaws but Rae put it beautifully - I've heard that story before but never related it to azoo before. Maybe just tell tham that story - it's hard dealing with people's religious views - I had it with Terry's aunt :dohh:

Suzanne - I know exactly where you're coming from with wanting to try everything and know you ruled out all your chances of your husband's biological child. That's how we felt. I hope you come to a decision you're both comfortable with, but great that DS is still a real option for you both if needed

MrsC - Fab numbers!


----------



## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Just a quick update... will be back later. Alot has been going on, but I tested this morning and negative.... suppost to test again tomorrow, but don't know for what. Hope everyone is well and congrats to those who got their's.

I'm so sorry, SND :hugs: I'm still hoping for you, even if you're not feeling it right now. Take care, hun :hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

A man is sitting on his porch as flood waters rise. A woman floats by in a boat said:

> natural [/I]miracle'? Hopefully that approach can help your DH feel a little better about it and maybe even give him something to discuss with his family.

WOW Raelynn - you have me crying too :cry: That is so inspiring - thank you :)

AND I SEE congratulations are in order! so so happy for you x What amazing news for both you and Mrs C - miracles really do happen - you give me hope :)


----------



## WANBMUM

SND - Hope your ok, please dont give up until that witch sings! x


----------



## raelynn

Well ladies, I'm afraid the news from my beta is not good. It came back at 14.8 this morning. My nurse said it could go either way and that I am pregnant but the numbers are so low that I need to be prepared for the worst. Went from cloud nine to complete devastation. :cry: I go back in Monday to see if there is any hope or if I'm heading for a chemical.


----------



## MrsC8776

raelynn~ I'm crossing my fingers for you that things work out. I'm so sorry you have to go through that. :hugs: You are in my thoughts.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Raelynn- I'm so sorry it came back so low. You get tested again on Sunday? I hope your numbers double for you. Big hugs.

SND- I've been thinking about you a lot and want you to know we're all here to support you.

AFM- My DH spoke to his mom and was very clear with her about how there would not be a miracle. She said she has been praying that our journey would be easier and wished we could have forgone all of the fertility treatment. He assures me she is totally accepting of us using a donor and is excited even. I still want to talk to him tonight once our little guy gets to bed.


----------



## Stinas

Thank you ladies! DH is feeling a little better today....good enough to go to work. He is still in pain, so I have to go bring him that jock strap that the hospital gave him. He says it might help him feel better since he is on his feet all night. 

Deb - The fevers have gone away, but if he gets another one I will be calling. I am guessing the pain wont go away anytime soon because they went into both and really dug around to find some, so im sure thats why its taking him a bit longer to get better...or at least thats what I am hoping. 

raelynn - :hugs: I still have a ton of hope!!! Dont get upset about the numbers!! Tons of women have low numbers at first....dont let them run you down! Positivity always helps!

Tiger - LOL!! Just try to remember..we were all there once lol Good luck with your meds! We will be a week apart on taking the injections! I think I start around the 25th. 

CM - Im sorry DH parents are just NOT getting it. I can understand where they are coming from when saying "it only takes one", but when it comes to our azoo....that one is either stuck in the balls or just not there. They really need to come to terms with it. It sucks, but it is what it is. Its just not right that they are having DH go back and forth about it. I am a very religious person, but im sorry, azoo has nothing to do with religion....yes, praying here and there may help, but ultimately, it cant change it....if it could...you would have been preg naturally by now. I wish you all the best with them, I hope they come to terms with it soon and DH goes with his gut on this and not someone else's influence. 

snd - Im sorry about the BFN, but your not out until the witch arrives. Hope everything is ok! lots of :hugs:

DG - Have fun at camp!! Glad to hear DH is doing better! I hope you get wonderful news back!!!


----------



## wibble wobble

snd80 said:


> wibble wobble said:
> 
> 
> Where's Snd got to? Missing you girl :( hope you are ok x
> 
> Thank you, but I'm not.Click to expand...

Sorry you haven't had your good news chic xx me either I was so thinking this is my time we've had enough of the bad luck already... but mother nature has other plans

anyway I'm thinking of you hun xxx it sucks that we are still waiting for that second line xx


----------



## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> Well ladies, I'm afraid the news from my beta is not good. It came back at 14.8 this morning. My nurse said it could go either way and that I am pregnant but the numbers are so low that I need to be prepared for the worst. Went from cloud nine to complete devastation. :cry: I go back in Monday to see if there is any hope or if I'm heading for a chemical.

So sorry to hear you are going through the tests of maybe you are maybe you aren't sending you big hugs :hugs: I hope you just have a slow developer a beanie that is a trouble maker

afm otd was today fri 13th usually a lucky day for me..... but jeeze them 2 words hurt.... not pregnant.... and to top if off af arrived today too. 

Gutted comes close to how I feel but I also want to say I'm down but not out... I'll bounce back.... just wasn't my time yet


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry wibble wobble. I wish I could say something to make things easier on you. 

Stinas- Glad to hear your DH is improving. What a terrible recovery. I agree that praying isn't going to change anything. It can help you cope, but it doesn't change what it is.


----------



## raelynn

Wibble Wobble - So sorry for you BFN! I had hoped for the best for all of us! Thanks for the kind words. I too hope I just have a slow poke/troublemaker onboard.

We broke the news to our parents tonight since they have been following us through the IVF process. What a very trying and tearful night. Trying to cling on to hope but it is tough with this whole not knowing lingering over our heads. I'm absolutely sick of waiting at this point but will have to get by until Monday somehow.


----------



## Stinas

WW - Im sorry...lots of :hugs:

raelynn - They told my cousin twice that her betas were low and to expect a chemical....then nothing happened....then they told her they were still too low and to expect to miscarry....her beautiful healthy happy baby boy will be one Oct 3. Just have some hope...you just never know. :flower::hugs:


----------



## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> Wibble Wobble - So sorry for you BFN! I had hoped for the best for all of us! Thanks for the kind words. I too hope I just have a slow poke/troublemaker onboard.
> 
> We broke the news to our parents tonight since they have been following us through the IVF process. What a very trying and tearful night. Trying to cling on to hope but it is tough with this whole not knowing lingering over our heads. I'm absolutely sick of waiting at this point but will have to get by until Monday somehow.

I'll keep everything crossed for you :hugs: Monday isn't too far away now


----------



## Deb111

Rae - I'm sorry you're having to go through this worry - I hope MOnday brings you good news :hugs:

WW - so sorry about your result and the witch. Your time will come hun :hugs:

I couldn't agree with CM more about prayer - it's not going to change azoo, but can give you the strength to get through the tough days - although I have to admit, I've had my struggles with my faith through all of this

Hugs to you all xx


----------



## snd80

Thanks girls, but tested again this morning and negative again. Stopped the progesterone and now waiting on AF to show. Yesterday and last night were the worst. I thought this was the one. But last Thurs night a storm came through and tore the place I worked at up and we had to move in literally 4 days, and I can't help but think that is what happened... I only have one more shot at this and I am out. I think I am going to take a few cycles off and try to loose some weight before wasting my last vial. I am so gutted and heart broken, so I will prolly be awol for a while. I am in such a low place right now... thanks again and sorry to be so negative...


----------



## Deb111

Sending big hugs your way Snd - I am so sorry. This journey is so damn hard and it makes me angry.

Take whatever time you need away, but please know you are always in our thoughts xx :hugs:


----------



## WANBMUM

SND - I am so sorry you got a negative. My heart breaks for you. Just remember we are all here for you, we all have a very good idea of what you are going through, so please come here to vent as much as you like. 
We have all been here for each other at all of our different lows - the same way you have been here for each one of us - chin up :) sending you hugs x


----------



## wibble wobble

Hey Snd just want to send you a great big (((((hug))))) hope the time away does you some good... see you when you get back :)


----------



## Stinas

snd -:hugs::hugs::hugs: Please dont stay away too long...we like you too much here! :flower:


----------



## cbergs

It's been one month since we heard the news about my hub's first SA. I woke up feeling pretty positive about it. I am still here, we are still together, the Sun is shining. No matter what bumps come in life, it still goes on.

I'm sure that we're going to resolve this issue one way or another. I'm no longer asking the "why me?" questions, or comparing my situation to couples who conceive naturally. That would be like pouring raindrops back into a cloud, as Miss Underwood would say. :)

This sort of thing happens to those who can handle it. I am strong enough to do it. Sometimes I break down and get all weepy, but then I pick myself up because what good is that going to do?? 

I daydream about my babies, and how much of a good mother I am going to be. I feel like If I picture the end-goal, it will happen! And can you all imagine just how sacred OUR children are going to be? It is going to be much different than those who can just have sex and conceive whenever they want. We are going to be so much more grateful- and it will show in our relatiponships with our children forever.

There will be no wandering thoughts of "am I going to be a good mother, is my husband going to be a good father??" Are you kidding me?!? MESA, TESE, mTESE, ICSI/IVF....we're already sacrificing leaps and bounds before even the faintest beat of a precious heart.

You girls on here have what it takes. :hugs:

Hope my message today has inspired at least some of you.

Love always,
Carrie


----------



## MoBaby

Snd sorry about negative :( I think your plan sounds good. We have had several months off since mc in feb then surgery for me but I think the wait has been good. And you will be doing good for yourself by trying to lose weight etc and you will know you have done everything. We will all have our bfp one day :) hugs girl!


----------



## ShortyA22

Well... ET was today.. The actual transfer went great ad we got two embryos in.. 
It was a very emotional day for me.. My clinic chose to do a 5 day transfer bc I had 8 perfect quality embryos.. Well 5 mins before they take me to the operating room for the transfer, the Embryologists came in to show me Which embryos she picked and why.. Well she practically said I didn't have any great quality embryos and they weren't were they really wanted them to be but they have seen many ppl get pregnant from that quality and worse. They grade them on a scale from 1-4 With 1 being completely perfect, 2- bring above average 3 being a little below Average and 4 just bad--- well they graded mine at a 3 and I guess I just didn't expect that.. This is our first IVF cycle and we are using ICSI due to blockage with my hubby.. Since we started.. Everything has went perfect.. My body responded very well to the meds, I had 36 follicles growing-- we retrieved 13 eggs- fertilized 11 with ICSI and then 8 were doing so good they wanted to wait til day 5 to make sure they pick the best...

I'm just a little unsure and don't understand.. 

I go next Tuesday the 24th for beta preg test..

Should I hpt early?? Looks like I could do that by Thursday/Friday this week..


----------



## raelynn

Shorty - I wouldn't worry to much about the quality. That is only their best guess of the ones that implant. Ours were rated 3s as well. For us I think that rating is for the amount of fragmentation since ours were also rated good and fair. At least one of them has implanted for us and hopefully hanging on. You never know!


----------



## ShortyA22

raelynn said:


> Shorty - I wouldn't worry to much about the quality. That is only their best guess of the ones that implant. Ours were rated 3s as well. For us I think that rating is for the amount of fragmentation since ours were also rated good and fair. At least one of them has implanted for us and hopefully hanging on. You never know!

Thank u.. In trying not to worry but it's hard.. Congrats and I wish you the best.. When do u go back to the dr?


----------



## raelynn

ShortyA22 said:


> raelynn said:
> 
> 
> Shorty - I wouldn't worry to much about the quality. That is only their best guess of the ones that implant. Ours were rated 3s as well. For us I think that rating is for the amount of fragmentation since ours were also rated good and fair. At least one of them has implanted for us and hopefully hanging on. You never know!
> 
> Thank u.. In trying not to worry but it's hard.. Congrats and I wish you the best.. When do u go back to the dr?Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think the worrying never stops. I go back in on Monday for my second beta...hoping and praying it doubles!


----------



## ShortyA22

raelynn said:


> ShortyA22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> raelynn said:
> 
> 
> Shorty - I wouldn't worry to much about the quality. That is only their best guess of the ones that implant. Ours were rated 3s as well. For us I think that rating is for the amount of fragmentation since ours were also rated good and fair. At least one of them has implanted for us and hopefully hanging on. You never know!
> 
> Thank u.. In trying not to worry but it's hard.. Congrats and I wish you the best.. When do u go back to the dr?Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately, I think the worrying never stops. I go back in on Monday for my second beta...hoping and praying it doubles!Click to expand...

I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers


----------



## MrsC8776

WW and snd~ :hugs: I'm sorry

Shorty~ Congrats again on being PUPO! 

raelynn~ Just wanted to say that I've been thinking of you and really hoping you get some good news tomorrow! 

AFM~ My second beta is tomorrow as well.


----------



## raelynn

Thanks MrsC! Hoping for great results on your beta tomorrow!


----------



## MrsC8776

Thank you!


----------



## ShortyA22

MrsC8776 said:


> WW and snd~ :hugs: I'm sorry
> 
> Shorty~ Congrats again on being PUPO!
> 
> raelynn~ Just wanted to say that I've been thinking of you and really hoping you get some good news tomorrow!
> 
> AFM~ My second beta is tomorrow as well.



Good luck mrsc!


----------



## cbergs

Thinking of you Rae, MrsC, and Shorty! :)


----------



## raelynn

2nd beta today was 27.2. It didn't quite double so we're still not out of the woods (doubt we will be anytime soon) but at least it went up. I go back in again on Thursday for the next beta. Then we're on vacation for a week so they'll just have to deal with it if we're still not where they expect us to be. It's not like there is anything we can do to help it out at this point anyway so we're just going to enjoy our vacation.


----------



## MrsC8776

raelynn~ The good news is that it is going up. My fingers are crossed for you. I hope thursday shows an improvement.


----------



## Deb111

Your LO is a fighter Rae :bodyb: I hope your numbers continue to rise well xx


----------



## raelynn

Thanks, MrsC

Congrats on your awesome beta! So happy for you!


----------



## raelynn

Deb111 said:


> Your LO is a fighter Rae :bodyb: I hope your numbers continue to rise well xx

Thanks. I've been saying that from the beginning. My family is a bunch of fighters health-wise so it fits right in.


----------



## MrsC8776

Thank you raelynn, I agree with Deb. Your LO is a fighter and is getting strong for you and your DH. I really think your numbers will pick up in the next 2 days. Where are you going on vacation? I remember you saying something a few months back but I forgot. Was it a cruise?


----------



## raelynn

Yes, we're cruising in the Bahamas. Very excited! I'm just trying to get my meds sorted out now so I have enough to get through the cruise plus a few days since I won't be able to order more until we're back.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Raelynn- I am so happy to hear your beta is still increasing. I am keeping everything crossed for you! I think your cruise is coming at a great time. 

We showed MIL the profile for our donor. She is pretty naive about it all, but was really supportive. She was under the impression that there would be thousands of donors and just about anyone off the street could do it. I think she was relieved to hear they only accept about 5% of applicants.


----------



## raelynn

Glad your MIL is getting on board Canadian! Hopefully things just keep getting better there.


----------



## rdleela

Still nothing going on with me and my DH, still in limbo land with surgery date, but I just HAD to stop on by and say CONGRATULATIONS to the ladies with BFP's!!!!! :happydance::happydance:

And to the ladies who it just didn't work out this cycle, all I can say is "hugs"....we all know how you feel right now. And there is nothing to cure it but time and hugs :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


----------



## Step Mummy

I can't believe it, I got my :bfp: this morning, I am in shock! Our 5th IUI worked, so it just goes to show you should not give up, even when hope seems bleek.

I had a feeling it might be positive, as on Saturday afternoon I had some "salmon pink" spotting when I wiped, which then later in the day turned a bit brown and disappeared, there really wasn't much at all, and although I normally get spotting a couple of days before AF but this was too early. At the same time I had an ache, which I can only describe as the feeling I was pulling out a very heavy Tampax (sorry TMI) constantly for a few hours. After that I had a few twinges the next day and nothing except feeling I could sleep for england, not knackered tired but wanting to sleep.

We had the IUI on 5th July, this month they changed my meds to injecting 75ml Gonal-F every day instead of every other day. Then I had two Follies (so I hope I do not have twins!)

Anyway good luck to you all, it just goes to show that we must keep on no matter how hard it gets, and how many failed goes you get.

I think I will have the early scan just to make sure everything is where it should be, to stop me worring, and I hope it sticks, it is quite scarey!

FX for all those waiting and trying.

XX


----------



## raelynn

Congrats Step Mummy!!!


----------



## MrsC8776

Congrats Step Mummy!! :happydance: Never giving up is the key!


----------



## wibble wobble

Congrats Step Mummy xx


----------



## rdleela

Congrats StepMummy!!!! :happydance:


----------



## WANBMUM

Wowsers! Congrats step mummy. So so happy for you. 
Any sympt


----------



## WANBMUM

Any symptoms even? :)


----------



## CanadianMaple

Woohoo! Congratulations Step Mummy! You were definitely due for your BFP! Keep up updated with everything.

AFM- I took my last BCP pill today. I am now officially waiting for AF. I've been spotting since starting the pill, so it will be nice just to get AF over with and start our cycle.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello all you gorgeous ladies!

There's a big, yellow thing in the sky.. I'm not sure what it is, we don't normally see something like that during English summer-time.. hmm... should I be afraid?? :haha:

StepMummy: :yipee: :wohoo: CONGRATULATIONS!! That's wonderful, wonderful news! :happydance: I have followed your journey since joining this group and know you have been to Hell and back, I really could not be happier for you!! I'm sending you heaps of sticky :dust: :dust: You and your hubby deserve this so much and you truly are an inspiration to all of us.

SND: You definitely need lots of these :hugs: :hugs: I'm so sorry, darling, I really thought this was the one. Man, that must've been really scarey, I hope everyone is okay and yes, that additional stress really didn't help. It's good to take a step back from all this, it does take over your life. Try to relax and give yourself time to get your head back 'in the game'. We're gonna miss you, so don't be a stranger, okay? 

Raelynn: How are you holding up, lovely? :hugs: As the other lovely ladies have said, those numbers are still going in the right direction and yes, you've definitely got a little fighter there! I hope you have a nice time on your cruise, it sounds fab. Sending lots of sticky :dust: your way.

MrsC: Congrats on the second beta! How are you feeling? Any symptoms sneaking in? 

Wibble: I'm so sorry, darling :hugs: I LOVE your attitude, yes, you will ABSOLUTELY bounce back and it WILL happen! 

Stinas: Have you started your cycle yet? I think we're not far from eachother.. sending you tonnes of Good Luck, hun!!

WanB: I saw in your sig that your IUI started on the 6th of July.. how's it going? Keeping everything crossed for you!! 

cbergs: How are you, me dearie? I hope it's getting a little easier to deal with, but as with anything, it takes time. We're here if you need anything! :hugs:

MoBaby: I hope you're well, september will soon be here! 

Shorty: How's the TWW going? You're testing next week aren't you? Good luck, hun! 

CM: Aww, that's great that your MIL is coming around. Wow, you're starting your cycle at the end of July, that's great! 

rdleela: Ah, the waiting.. *looks at watch, taps foot* any news on a date yet? 

Deb: I did stop-by your journal, I hope you're home with your feet-up and looking forward to a relaxing summer break :hugs:

DG: I hope you're having fun at camp! 

MJ: if you stop by, squishy :hugs: to you and Tang!

Big :hi: and :hugs: to anyone I've missed! 

AFM Buserelin infections start tomorrow - I'm going to get DH to do them, so I'd better not p*ss him off tonight! Haha! This is all beginning to feel VERY real now.... eeeek!

As always, lots of love and :hugs: to all, 

C xx


----------



## ShortyA22

tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello all you gorgeous ladies!
> 
> There's a big, yellow thing in the sky.. I'm not sure what it is, we don't normally see something like that during English summer-time.. hmm... should I be afraid?? :haha:
> 
> StepMummy: :yipee: :wohoo: CONGRATULATIONS!! That's wonderful, wonderful news! :happydance: I have followed your journey since joining this group and know you have been to Hell and back, I really could not be happier for you!! I'm sending you heaps of sticky :dust: :dust: You and your hubby deserve this so much and you truly are an inspiration to all of us.
> 
> SND: You definitely need lots of these :hugs: :hugs: I'm so sorry, darling, I really thought this was the one. Man, that must've been really scarey, I hope everyone is okay and yes, that additional stress really didn't help. It's good to take a step back from all this, it does take over your life. Try to relax and give yourself time to get your head back 'in the game'. We're gonna miss you, so don't be a stranger, okay?
> 
> Raelynn: How are you holding up, lovely? :hugs: As the other lovely ladies have said, those numbers are still going in the right direction and yes, you've definitely got a little fighter there! I hope you have a nice time on your cruise, it sounds fab. Sending lots of sticky :dust: your way.
> 
> MrsC: Congrats on the second beta! How are you feeling? Any symptoms sneaking in?
> 
> Wibble: I'm so sorry, darling :hugs: I LOVE your attitude, yes, you will ABSOLUTELY bounce back and it WILL happen!
> 
> Stinas: Have you started your cycle yet? I think we're not far from eachother.. sending you tonnes of Good Luck, hun!!
> 
> WanB: I saw in your sig that your IUI started on the 6th of July.. how's it going? Keeping everything crossed for you!!
> 
> cbergs: How are you, me dearie? I hope it's getting a little easier to deal with, but as with anything, it takes time. We're here if you need anything! :hugs:
> 
> MoBaby: I hope you're well, september will soon be here!
> 
> Shorty: How's the TWW going? You're testing next week aren't you? Good luck, hun!
> 
> CM: Aww, that's great that your MIL is coming around. Wow, you're starting your cycle at the end of July, that's great!
> 
> rdleela: Ah, the waiting.. *looks at watch, taps foot* any news on a date yet?
> 
> Deb: I did stop-by your journal, I hope you're home with your feet-up and looking forward to a relaxing summer break :hugs:
> 
> DG: I hope you're having fun at camp!
> 
> MJ: if you stop by, squishy :hugs: to you and Tang!
> 
> Big :hi: and :hugs: to anyone I've missed!
> 
> AFM Buserelin infections start tomorrow - I'm going to get DH to do them, so I'd better not p*ss him off tonight! Haha! This is all beginning to feel VERY real now.... eeeek!
> 
> As always, lots of love and :hugs: to all,
> 
> C xx


The wait has been hard.. I test is next Tuesday! I'm excited and trying to wait without doing an hpt. My trigger should be out tomorrow but I'm trying to stay strong and not give in..


----------



## WANBMUM

Thanks tiger. I am good, yes, I test on friday, 14dpiui. Unless af gets here first of course. Not feeling too hopeful, I've had no real symptoms that confirm anything for me. Today I feel like af is on the way, just with the way I feel mentally, hormonal and tired. So not feeling 'pregnant' at all :(
I must say it is the longest 2ww I have ever had, so mentally draining. It sucks. 

Tiger I presume you mean your injections start not infections. Hehe that made me laugh. 
Good luck :) my hubby chickened out, giving my trigger, he got so nervous and I got so brave and just stabbed it in. Hehe.


----------



## cbergs

tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello all you gorgeous ladies!
> 
> There's a big, yellow thing in the sky.. I'm not sure what it is, we don't normally see something like that during English summer-time.. hmm... should I be afraid?? :haha:
> 
> StepMummy: :yipee: :wohoo: CONGRATULATIONS!! That's wonderful, wonderful news! :happydance: I have followed your journey since joining this group and know you have been to Hell and back, I really could not be happier for you!! I'm sending you heaps of sticky :dust: :dust: You and your hubby deserve this so much and you truly are an inspiration to all of us.
> 
> SND: You definitely need lots of these :hugs: :hugs: I'm so sorry, darling, I really thought this was the one. Man, that must've been really scarey, I hope everyone is okay and yes, that additional stress really didn't help. It's good to take a step back from all this, it does take over your life. Try to relax and give yourself time to get your head back 'in the game'. We're gonna miss you, so don't be a stranger, okay?
> 
> Raelynn: How are you holding up, lovely? :hugs: As the other lovely ladies have said, those numbers are still going in the right direction and yes, you've definitely got a little fighter there! I hope you have a nice time on your cruise, it sounds fab. Sending lots of sticky :dust: your way.
> 
> MrsC: Congrats on the second beta! How are you feeling? Any symptoms sneaking in?
> 
> Wibble: I'm so sorry, darling :hugs: I LOVE your attitude, yes, you will ABSOLUTELY bounce back and it WILL happen!
> 
> Stinas: Have you started your cycle yet? I think we're not far from eachother.. sending you tonnes of Good Luck, hun!!
> 
> WanB: I saw in your sig that your IUI started on the 6th of July.. how's it going? Keeping everything crossed for you!!
> 
> cbergs: How are you, me dearie? I hope it's getting a little easier to deal with, but as with anything, it takes time. We're here if you need anything! :hugs:
> 
> MoBaby: I hope you're well, september will soon be here!
> 
> Shorty: How's the TWW going? You're testing next week aren't you? Good luck, hun!
> 
> CM: Aww, that's great that your MIL is coming around. Wow, you're starting your cycle at the end of July, that's great!
> 
> rdleela: Ah, the waiting.. *looks at watch, taps foot* any news on a date yet?
> 
> Deb: I did stop-by your journal, I hope you're home with your feet-up and looking forward to a relaxing summer break :hugs:
> 
> DG: I hope you're having fun at camp!
> 
> MJ: if you stop by, squishy :hugs: to you and Tang!
> 
> Big :hi: and :hugs: to anyone I've missed!
> 
> AFM Buserelin infections start tomorrow - I'm going to get DH to do them, so I'd better not p*ss him off tonight! Haha! This is all beginning to feel VERY real now.... eeeek!
> 
> As always, lots of love and :hugs: to all,
> 
> C xx

Wow! You are a champ! I have been wanting to leave everyone a message too, but I would need a few hours to write everyone's info down- and then type it out.

Thank you so much! I feel so lucky to have found this forum in my time of need. You girls have given me so much strength and perspective. 

Our next appointment is the 31st. We will find out my hub's b/w results as well as 3rd SA that was centrifuged. I've decided to not wallow in this, especially since we don't even have any real answers. 

Thanks again, and talk to you all soon!

Love,
Carrie


----------



## snd80

Thank you for all the well wishes and I just wanted to pop in with a quick update. 

Talked to my dr. yesterday... my only 2 options left to move forward more aggressive is: 1) IVF or 2) IUI with injections. So I told them I am taking off til about Sept or Oct to loose more weight and have a call in to see about IVF financing. 

It has been a really hard past week and I have spent every morning crying. I am really loosing it! It is just so heartbreaking for me. IDK what else to do. Nikki is just not the same person anymore. :nope: I've been trying to do some biblical soul searching as well... and I've also started re-reading my book "Empty Womb, Aching Heart", which doesn't help with the crying.

Thanks again and I'll get back to "me" one day. 

:hugs: to each of you.


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## Deb111

StepMummy - huge congrats to you!!! :happydance:

Snd - sending big hugs your way :hugs:


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## MrsC8776

Canadian~ Yay for taking the last BC! 

tiger~ Thank you! The only symptom I'm having is nausea. I'm not getting sick but just feeling sick. Oh and still the TMI symptom of very sore nipples. Good luck on the injections. 

WANB and Shorty~ Good luck! 

snd~ I look forward to seeing you come back and get your bfp. I'm so sorry that all of this has gotten to you in the way it has. 

raelynn~ I'm wishing you all the luck in the world for tomorrow! Please let us know how it goes. 

AFM~ Our first scan will be on the 31st!


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## Step Mummy

Ah SND honey, I know how tough it is, you really just have to keep going, my story shows that - as someone here said, it's not that we cant get PG, its that we give up too soon.

I know that finances are a killer and that is a big problem for many of us, but keep the faith it will happen, it just takes a lot of money, a lot of time and a huge amount of emotion.

Do you know it is very strange - we only moved back into our home two weeks ago after living elsewhere for 3 months while we had a big building project done on the house and it's like, it waited until we were in our family home all settled and secure before I got the BFP, maybe, sometimes we just have to wait until the right moment that god has planned for us.

I am thinking of you, after 4 failed IUI's and one cancelled cycle I know how you feel. It's good that you have your weight loss challenge to keep you busy in the meantime, then when you are ready, you can start teh next phase. In the meantime try to enjoy yourself and make the most of being without a kiddie, because once they are on their way - life will never be the same again!!!

FX and hugs for you xx


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## cbergs

Snd,

I hope this makes you smile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpHjukQowZ0

You will be a mama! Like stepmummy says- all in God's time. And it will be better than anything!! :)

I've been writing a blog about my feelings and experiences, and find it very therapeutic. Maybe you could start one too. Something about writing everything out just helps... 

Also, on my darkest days I pray. I'm not sure of your beliefs, but I can tell you it brings hope and light into my life.

Here with you all the way,
Carrie


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## MJ73

Hello darling hearts, sorry I haven't been in for a while. I've been really sick. Not only have I had aweful all-day long morning sickness with major vomiting, I also have whooping cough (pertussus) & have been on really strong (baby safe) antibiotics. We got to see the baby's heartbeat again yesterday at our obs & he assured us that the whoop won't harm the bubba. I'm sorry I've been so slack, I've been barely able to function. But I've missed you all immensely! 

Just wanted to send SND massive hugs, comfort & love. This is such a relentless bitch of a journey & I'm so sorry you're suffering hun. Remember we all love you, but take as much time as you need.

Rae, how are you hun? I know how tough this can be, we had the same experience with my 1st pregnancy; low, slow rising betas. I will keep everything crossed for you xx 

Stepmummy; I nearly cried when I read your good news! After all you've been through, what a precious pregnancy this is. And I thought your words to SND were just lovely. Congrats hun!

Mrs C, still so happy for you my friend, great betas. Do we see a multiple birth on the horizon???

WW, sorry this wasn't your time. Massive hugs hun. Xx 

Huge hugs to everyone else, just feeling too ill to write more. Love to all xx


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## Deb111

So sorry you've been poorly MJ but glad bubba is ok. Hoping you feel better soon xx


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## raelynn

Well ladies. I love you all for all the support but I'm going to be taking a break now. HCG was back in the teens today so I'm miscarrying. I'm completely heartbroken. Didn't realize how much I already loved this little one. At least we have our cruise coming up to get us away from everything for a while. We're not sure what our next step will be...we have no frozen embryos and no frozen sperm left so not sure we can financially go down the IVF route again at least not anytime soon.


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## MrsC8776

raelynn said:


> Well ladies. I love you all for all the support but I'm going to be taking a break now. HCG was back in the teens today so I'm miscarrying. I'm completely heartbroken. Didn't realize how much I already loved this little one. At least we have our cruise coming up to get us away from everything for a while. We're not sure what our next step will be...we have no frozen embryos and no frozen sperm left so not sure we can financially go down the IVF route again at least not anytime soon.

:cry: I'm so sorry :hugs: Please know that I'm thinking of you and hoping that what ever comes next brings you your dream come true.


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## Deb111

So, so sorry Rae :hugs: Life is so unfair to give you this and then take it away. I hope the cruise gives you a well earned break and that you are able to work out where to go next.

Please know you're in my thoughts xx


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## cbergs

raelynn said:


> Well ladies. I love you all for all the support but I'm going to be taking a break now. HCG was back in the teens today so I'm miscarrying. I'm completely heartbroken. Didn't realize how much I already loved this little one. At least we have our cruise coming up to get us away from everything for a while. We're not sure what our next step will be...we have no frozen embryos and no frozen sperm left so not sure we can financially go down the IVF route again at least not anytime soon.

I'm so so so sorry Rae. :hugs: This happened to a friend of mine and her very next try was her sticky baby. Please try to enjoy your cruise. You are in my prayers.

Love always, your azoo sister-
Carrie


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry, Raelyn. I hope your vacation is both relaxing and healing.


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## wibble wobble

raelynn said:


> Well ladies. I love you all for all the support but I'm going to be taking a break now. HCG was back in the teens today so I'm miscarrying. I'm completely heartbroken. Didn't realize how much I already loved this little one. At least we have our cruise coming up to get us away from everything for a while. We're not sure what our next step will be...we have no frozen embryos and no frozen sperm left so not sure we can financially go down the IVF route again at least not anytime soon.

So sorry to read this, please know that I am thinking of you :hugs::hugs:


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## Deb111

Well we're off to see the lovely Mr Ramsay today. We need some clarification as to whether he could ever do the mTESE again if necessary or if we should just go ahead and get Terry started on the TRT. It's nice to be going to one of these appts without being anxious!


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## CanadianMaple

I'm looking forward to hearing what he suggests Deb. We still need to deal with DH's low testosterone. His family doctor just tested his bio-available testosterone as well as regular testosterone to see how bad it really is. How does Terry feel about starting testosterone? DH is very nervous about it.

AFM- I think today is CD1!!! So, I think my baseline ultrasound is on Monday and then I go back at CD11 to see how many follicles I would have from the Clomid and then do the trigger. I'm not sure how I feel about multiples though.


----------



## CanadianMaple

I am so upset. My cycle was canceled and I took those awful BCPs for nothing for these past 3 weeks.

I called them with my CD1 today after taking the pill for 21 days like they had asked.

They finally called me back and it turns out they don't have all of our results in. So, I have to have AF for a week and then start the stupid BCP all over again for another 3 weeks.

That takes me to my first week of school for the IUI and I am unsure if I can miss that first week. Plus the 2ww is going to be during the most stressful time of the year.

I told her how frustrated we have been with the clinic. She spent a long time on the phone with me and went over everything. I am glad she was sympathetic.

They really know nothing about donor sperm there which is really frustrating. She and I butted heads about the sperm bank we chose, she didn't think they were Canadian complaint and I told her I got it from the list THEY gave me. She finally understood what I was saying and did see their name on the list on their info sheet.

She is going to see the head of the clinic tomorrow, it's his weekend to work, and will call me in the morning. I still can't believe this is happening.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Oh, Rae :hugs: I'm truly, truly sorry for you :hugs: When you've fought so hard to get this far, it's heart-breaking. I hope you and your DH manage to take some time to think, talk, cry and come to terms with this whilst you're on the cruise. 

Sending you much love and many, many :hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Hello Deb :hi:

How did it go with the magical Mr Ramsay? Ah, an appointment with no anxiety... pray do tell what that's like?! :haha: 

Oh my goodness, you're not far off 100 days to go! :wohoo:

I hope you're getting plenty of rest during the summer break.

More :hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

Ah, no, CM :hugs: I hope you get some answers from the head tomorrow so that you can put a plan in place and move on to the IUI. 

We know we have a long road ahead of us, but we could do without the bumps! 

Go and have a big glass of wine and honestly, those three weeks will FLY by!

More :hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Thank you for all the well wishes and I just wanted to pop in with a quick update.
> 
> Talked to my dr. yesterday... my only 2 options left to move forward more aggressive is: 1) IVF or 2) IUI with injections. So I told them I am taking off til about Sept or Oct to loose more weight and have a call in to see about IVF financing.
> 
> It has been a really hard past week and I have spent every morning crying. I am really loosing it! It is just so heartbreaking for me. IDK what else to do. Nikki is just not the same person anymore. :nope: I've been trying to do some biblical soul searching as well... and I've also started re-reading my book "Empty Womb, Aching Heart", which doesn't help with the crying.
> 
> Thanks again and I'll get back to "me" one day.
> 
> :hugs: to each of you.

Aww, Nikki :hugs: You're STILL Nikki, you're just dealing with a lot of sh*t at the moment, it's tough for anyone to keep bouncing back when it's one bad thing after another. 

I'm sure the break will help, give you time to think about IVF and other options.

If you need us, you know where to find us.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

WANBMUM said:


> Thanks tiger. I am good, yes, I test on friday, 14dpiui. Unless af gets here first of course. Not feeling too hopeful, I've had no real symptoms that confirm anything for me. Today I feel like af is on the way, just with the way I feel mentally, hormonal and tired. So not feeling 'pregnant' at all :(
> I must say it is the longest 2ww I have ever had, so mentally draining. It sucks.
> 
> Tiger I presume you mean your injections start not infections. Hehe that made me laugh.
> Good luck :) my hubby chickened out, giving my trigger, he got so nervous and I got so brave and just stabbed it in. Hehe.

:rofl: Although, three days of INJECTIONS (I did it!) down, I wish they could produce it as some type of spread that I could slather onto a cracker and eat! Husband has been really good, I tried to do it the first day, but my hands were sweating so badly from nerves I'd have probably stabbed my foot!

Enough of me, how did testing go? I know you weren't feeling too positive, but I'm REALLY hoping you were wrong.

Big :hugs: winging their way to you, 

C xx


----------



## Deb111

tigerlily1975 said:


> :rofl: Although, three days of INJECTIONS (I did it!) down, I wish they could produce it as some type of spread that I could slather onto a cracker and eat! Husband has been really good, I tried to do it the first day, but my hands were sweating so badly from nerves I'd have probably stabbed my foot!
> 
> C xx

Love it Tiger!!! :haha:


----------



## Deb111

Well I'm not going to go into details, but we had the most horrific journey down to the appt and Terry seems to think that travelling 130 miles and arriving at 11.27am for an 11.30 am appt is 'perfect timing'!!!!! :growlmad:

Anyway, after the day we're had, my BP was VERY high when we got home so I've just been and slept for an hour and all is normal again thank goodness!

So ... today's appt

Firstly, some great news is that, as things stand now, Terry's testosterone is at a level where it wouldn't be necessary for TRT. I think the lowest in the acceptable range is 8 and his is 8.3 Obviously it will need keeping an eye on, as it is likely to frop with age, as it does in all men, but there no risk to his health with a low level right now :thumbup: 

CM - he doesn't really seem bothered about the TRT when the time comes, although a mate of him told him it can cause all sorts of problems and he shouldn't take it - I think he's talking more about people who abuse it - in terms of bodybuilders etc. I guess when the time comes we will research it more and who knows what will come out of the woodwork :shrug:

Now in terms of a future mTESE. He says he needs to sit down and have a good chat with the embryologists about the quality of what they froze and how they feel about it's viability. The possible options being:
- They feel it's good stuff and would be happy to do another cycle thawing it and only having the mTESE as a back-up
- They would rather use fresh sperm from another hopefully successful mTESE, but are happy to try to use the frozen sperm as a back-up
- They feel the frozen sperm is useless and would only use fresh sperm from another mTESE (which I hope isn't the answer they come back with, else why have they charged us over £900 to freeze it?!!?

Now in option 1 or 2 above, he would happily go ahead and says the blood test results don't suggest a concern over doing it again. However, if it ended up being option 3, he would feel he had to go in really agressively and severely excavate the testes, rather than just see what he could easily get, he would not be happy to do it as it would mean removing a lot of tissue and this would have a big impact on his testosterone production level and his health.

So he's going to speak to the emryologist at the beg of Sept when he's next there and we will go from there. Obviously there's no rush right now. the only reason for going to see hom at this stage was to see if we were wasting time getting him onto the TRT.

Another thing that surprised us was that even he was AMAZED that Terry didn't need so much as a paracetamol after the last procedure. He said considering what he did, he was absolutely astounded!

Anyway, it was a lovely appt - I'd emailed him to tell him we'd been successful with the ICSI, but he was still totally delighted for us and kept sitting back in his chair saying "WOW 25 weeks! - incredible". He's made us promise to send photos although we will probably pop in and see him with the baby as Terry's cousin only lives about 20 mins away from the clinic.

Oh and he also said he should pay me to sit in his waiting room with a big smile on face, looking nice and pregnant to encourage his other patients! I told him I'm all for that as it could pay for our next cycle!!! :haha:

Oh and something funny that happened - we drive 130 miles away. walk into the clinic and are greeted by a brochure on the wall for cosmetic surgery with a picture of our PE teacher at school on the front!!!! Not that he's had any surgery done, but he's done a lot of modelling on the past and his pictures get on all sorts of things - very bizarre to walk in and see that! 

Sorry for the essay! :dohh:


----------



## Stinas

Hi ladies!!! Hope all is well with everyone!!
I just got back from the Bahamas. Our trip was AMAZING as always...of course it went by wayyyyy too fast, but back to reality. I take my last BCP tom and I go in on wed for bloodwork...which is also when I will be picking up my stim meds. So im guessing wed or thurs I will start my stims. Scared, but cant wait to get this show on the road. 

StepMummy - CONGRATS!!! :happydance:

Tiger - Looks like we are a week apart! I hope you breeze through these meds...dont piss dh off lol Let me know how they are! Everyone says they get scared for nothing...they usually breeze through them. :flower:

snd - :flower::hugs::hugs:

raelynn - Im sooo sorry! :hugs::hugs: 

Deb - God bless your dh for wanting to do another mtese...dh said there is no way in hell he will let another doc touch them lol I dont blame him either. Glad to see his apt went well!!! Yay! 

CM - Im sorry you went through all those stupid BCPs for nothing!! That just stinks! I hope you get your answers soon! 

Im tired...I hope I got everyone..if not...I hope everyone is doing well!! Lots of :hugs::hugs:


----------



## SunUp

Big hugs to SND and Rae...I am so sorry

CM, that is so awful. :(


----------



## Deb111

CM -How frustrating!! I'm so sorry. I hope you're doing ok and get some answers xx


----------



## WANBMUM

tigerlily1975 said:


> WANBMUM said:
> 
> 
> Thanks tiger. I am good, yes, I test on friday, 14dpiui. Unless af gets here first of course. Not feeling too hopeful, I've had no real symptoms that confirm anything for me. Today I feel like af is on the way, just with the way I feel mentally, hormonal and tired. So not feeling 'pregnant' at all :(
> I must say it is the longest 2ww I have ever had, so mentally draining. It sucks.
> 
> Tiger I presume you mean your injections start not infections. Hehe that made me laugh.
> Good luck :) my hubby chickened out, giving my trigger, he got so nervous and I got so brave and just stabbed it in. Hehe.
> 
> :rofl: Although, three days of INJECTIONS (I did it!) down, I wish they could produce it as some type of spread that I could slather onto a cracker and eat! Husband has been really good, I tried to do it the first day, but my hands were sweating so badly from nerves I'd have probably stabbed my foot!
> 
> Enough of me, how did testing go? I know you weren't feeling too positive, but I'm REALLY hoping you were wrong.
> 
> Big :hugs: winging their way to you,
> 
> C xxClick to expand...

Thanks tiger but it was a negative followed by af :(
So it's onto IUI number 2. 
I have been ok, my poor hubby was disappointed, he feels responsible for our heartache and just wishes we could have some 'luck' in our lives. 
But it will happen, I know it will because we won't give up. Even if we have to sell our clothes on our back to fund it. Hehe.


----------



## Stinas

WANBMUM - My dh seems to think the same right now...but Your right!!...we will do anything for it to happen and it will!!


----------



## CanadianMaple

I hope everyone is doing okay.

My clinic gave me a new timeline. I start the pill 2 days early (tomorrow) and take them only for 19 days. I call on Aug 3 to make sure my file is complete. My last pill is on Aug 11 and then I do the IUI if all looks good the weekend before school starts. I'm still mad that they didn't tell me the results usually take 4 weeks to come in when I was only on the pill for 3 weeks. But, I just hope we get our baby. It will be one we are supposed to get. Maybe this cycle would have been a bust or we needed more time to process using a donor? Who knows.


----------



## cbergs

CM-

I completely agree with you. I think everything happens for one reason or another. You will get YOUR baby, the one you were always supposed to get (no matter where it comes from!) in due time. Until then, enjoy your sleep! :D

Hugs,
Carrie


----------



## ShortyA22

Hey everyone! I've been trying to be incognito for a few to prepare for my BETA tomorrow-- well pretty much everything has went perfect and ive had all the "pregnancy symptoms". Well I just knew it.. I took a hpt Sunday and Today and both came back clearly a BFN... I'm just hoping and praying that I just tested too early and the blood test will give me my positive back!! I've read many posts on the Internet and other forums where ppl got negatives on HPT and still was pregnant when Beta came back-- do any of you have any stories like that??

I'm asking for all the prayers as I go tomorrow that I am pregnant plz...


----------



## kitty75

My boyfriend has just been diagnosed with azoospermia. So far he has had two sperm analysis both coming back with no sperm found. We have been referred to Dr Dickinson a urologist at Darent Valley Hospital who did a physical examination. He thinks that the azoospermia is due to undeveloped testes (boyf's are apparently quite small) rather than a blockage. We, well he is now waiting for a further appointment with Dr Dickinson who will carry out a testicular biopsy and a vasogram to confirm that there is no blockage if there is any sperm in the testes. We will then know if we can conceive through ivf (i have mild pcos too!). Does anyone have any suggestions on how the boyf can prepare for the biopsy to get the best result? I'm force feeding him zinc and wellman (i think i'm still fooling myself that we can have a baby as naturally as we can!). 
And is anyone else under Dr Dickinson? I'm a bit worried that as he is the only doctor at the hospital that deals with this he won't spend enough time/effort in looking for sperm. Have any of your DH been under Dr Dickinson at Darent Valley hospital? (think he also holds a clinic at Chelsfield). Any thoughts on Dr Dickinson or your experiences of the procedure at the hospital and the outcome (good/bad) would be really appreciated! We saw him in mid may and now I'm getting a bit itchy to get his op done but am getting quite anxious as we only saw him briefly and have no idea of how good he is.


----------



## Deb111

CM - I'm glad they've sorted out a better timeline for you. We were going for our FET in January and everything went wrong with the timing. I was gutted at the time, but obviously Feb was meant to be!

Shorty - I'm sorry, but don't give up hope. How many dpo were you when you tested?

Wanbmum - so sorry hun - you WILL get there :hugs:

DG - any news hun???


----------



## deafgal01

Deb- confirmed that issue is not blockage. It is def lack of sperm production. I have to think about the options this week and then discuss with dh which I prefer to try. Cheapest would be using sperm donor obviously. There are two other options- the ivf which does not guarantee they will find any sperms to use from him to put in me or have dh stay on meds and hope for some luck.


----------



## Step Mummy

Dear Raelynn, I am so sorry, I am sending you hugs and hugs, I know how attached you can get so quickly, especially after wanting this so much and working so hard to get it. I hope your cruise provides you with the break you need. Lots of love and wishes coming your way xxx


----------



## ShortyA22

Deb111 said:


> CM - I'm glad they've sorted out a better timeline for you. We were going for our FET in January and everything went wrong with the timing. I was gutted at the time, but obviously Feb was meant to be!
> 
> Shorty - I'm sorry, but don't give up hope. How many dpo were you when you tested?
> 
> Wanbmum - so sorry hun - you WILL get there :hugs:
> 
> DG - any news hun???


I tested days 7 and 8 after 5 day transfer- I did my blood work and just waiting on the call


----------



## WANBMUM

Good luck Shorty :)


----------



## Stinas

Kitty - Im sorry to see you here, but you did find a great place with plenty of ladies in different situations to help you.

Shorty - Good luck!

DG - Im sorry you didnt get the answers you wanted. Did they at least find any sperm? Did you get to freeze anything?(cant remember if you were going to if you did).


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## deafgal01

Stinas- they did not freeze anything I don't think. I do not know if they found anything but I am assuming the fact that it is not blockage issue tells me they did not find any in that biopsy. Hence it is a gambl


----------



## deafgal01

Stinas- they did not freeze anything I don't think. I do not know if they found anything but I am assuming the fact that it is not blockage issue tells me they did not find any in that biopsy. Hence it is a gambling risk I am taking to try or assume he has any hidden in his testes for the ivf. Think we may just do donor sperm instead of painfully trying to find some in his testes.


----------



## cbergs

anyone else experiencing problems with this site? I just wrote two replies to Kitty and neither one of them have shown up! grrrr!!


----------



## Deb111

Welcome Kitty - I'm sorry you find yourself here 

I've not heard of Dr Dickinson. THE best in the UK seems to be Mr Ramsay and he has been wonderful with us. He is know all over Europe and beyond. We went privately to see him, but I know Silverbell and her dh managed to see him on the NHS at Hammersmith and they live in the Isle of Wight. I'm sure she wouldn't mind you PM'ing her to ask how she went about getting to see him when they were out of area.


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## Deb111

cbergs said:


> anyone else experiencing problems with this site? I just wrote two replies to Kitty and neither one of them have shown up! grrrr!!

I've not really had problems, but it does seem very quiet on here lately so maybe others are having trouble too :shrug:


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## CanadianMaple

deafgal01 said:


> Stinas- they did not freeze anything I don't think. I do not know if they found anything but I am assuming the fact that it is not blockage issue tells me they did not find any in that biopsy. Hence it is a gamble

That's what we had to face too. We didn't do the biopsy even since we knew the odds were low. I hope there were able to freeze some for you since they can find a few cells, even with NOA. 

It takes a lot of time to process the odds, the costs and what the process will look like before making a choice. I ultimately had to leave it up to my husband, I was okay with either, but the thoughts of dIUI really was attractive because of the better odds and lower cost. Don't rush your decision. You'll know when you're ready with either path. :hugs:

cbergs- No problems posting here. 

ShortyA22- I hope you got your phone call!

How are you doing, Step Mummy?

I started the pill again today. I've decided that I am just going to enjoy the summer and stop stressing about the timing. This way, I get to drink wine on the deck, and totally enjoy my time off. I will be back to work during my 2ww and life will be good and busy, back into routine.


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## Stinas

DG - They should have still told you if they found anything. With DH they said he was about 99% sure it was a blockage, but once he went in, he realized it was the blockage PLUS a production issue. He said he only found 2-3 sperm, but apparently the IVF people (forget the proper term) found 2 vials of sperm. So you cant really 100% rely on the urologist. Ours wants us to put off IVF and go on clomid for 3 months and do this again...but DH said hell no. Plus, if we found enough for two IVF rounds, why would we go through all that pain again? 
I hope they found some and you get to freeze them. Even if you do decide to do donor right now, later on you might want to use them.


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## ShortyA22

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers... Unfortunately.. The HPTs were correct and it was def a :bfn:

I guess we will consult with the dr and look at our next options-- don't really know if I can handle another round of this and everything that comes along with it... It's been a really rough day but we will make it.


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## Stinas

Shorty - Im sorry it was a BFN. I hope you guys figure everything out soon. Lots of hugs your way.


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## CanadianMaple

I'm sorry, Shorty.


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## SunUp

:hugs: Shorty, I am so sorry

I like your attitude, CM, that is a great way to look at it! It will be nice to be busy in the TWW, for sure.

SND, hope your ok... let me know if you need to talk.

Anyone else want to join our secret facebook group?


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## cbergs

SunUp said:


> :hugs: Shorty, I am so sorry
> 
> I like your attitude, CM, that is a great way to look at it! It will be nice to be busy in the TWW, for sure.
> 
> SND, hope your ok... let me know if you need to talk.
> 
> Anyone else want to join our secret facebook group?

I'd love to join it!


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## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies
I just thought I'd pop in and say hello. 
I am very sorry for those who are having a tough time and have BFN's, its just so tough.

I am doing well, terrified every time I go to the loo incase I find some blood when I wipe, I can't seem to get past that. I am sooooo tired like I just want to sleep all day (not knackered tired, just sleepy - not like me at all!) - my boobs are massive, I have outgrown all bras already, but do not want to go shopping yet, so will make do until after my scan on 10th Aug. I can't believe i have these symptoms already, it's very strange. I have also had a brain like a sieve, I walk around the house to do something, then forget what I was going to do - not very helpful at work - where everything is serious!

Other than that I am good, we have told our close family and they were so excited, but don't feel we should tell everyone yet - its just too early.

I had a little scare on Monday, on Saturday we spent the day with my nieces, and on Monday her mum called to say she has chicken pox - so I had to rush to the hospital for blood tests - which have come back showing I have the antibodies - thank god! although I am still goign to keep away for a few weeks just in case!

I thought I would be quite worried about the donor thing and feel strange about it, but although it does still bother me, I seem to be able to pass the thought on quite quickly, and DH is really really happy, pampering me like crazy - I am barely allowed to do anything and our house needs a lot of tidying up after our building project!

Anyway I am at work so better get on - wishing everyone here the best of luck and lots of love.

It is a tough journey, and although I am not out of it yet, I do apprecaite the unconditional love and support offered here by everyone for the last 2yrs+.


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## SunUp

PM'ed you CB!


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## Stinas

Step Mummy - Im soo glad everything is going good with you!!! Im sure as time goes by you will almost fully forget that the baby is not biologically DH's. It wont and does not matter anyways...just as long as you both love it, thats all the matters. 
Yay for baby brain lol

As for me....I am officially on the IVF train. I started my gonal f shots last night. I was beyond scared, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be. Just like everyone said, drawing blood hurts more. I still just hope this whole process goes by fast. I have more doctor apts than my grandparents do!


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## snd80

SunUp said:


> I'm here girl... just been lurking quietly. No since in raining on everyone's parade. Thank you for asking though and :dust:


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## Stinas

snd - Hi :flower::hugs:


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## MoBaby

hey ladies! been following this thread at a distance.....But update on me!

Sooooo our third IVF is scheduled to have eggs retrieved Sept 10!! So I am on BCP until Aug 26 then begin microdose lupron 8/29 twice daily, then 8/31 300u gonal F and add menopur 9/3 (unknown dose now) and continue until trigger then ER :) I'm so glad I dont have to DR and this cycle is short. I feel like the BCP in combo with full strength lupron supresses me way to much as I was off to a slow start in last 2 cycles. Hopefully this gives us more blasts and some frosties but more importantly our IVF rainbow miracle :)


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## Stinas

MoBaby - Yay!! Thats great news!! Tons of :dust:


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## cbergs

Good luck MoBaby!! :)


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## wibble wobble

Good luck Mo Baby


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## deafgal01

Good luck mobaby!


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## silverbell

Hey everybody

I thought I better post on here so you don't think I've completely disappeared.

I just haven't felt up to posting in here lately. Not sure what it is but I think it's just been so depressing for me to see so many struggling with this diagnosis, waiting and waiting for things to get moving, receiving bad news etc etc. I'm not sure about the rest of you ladies, but I feel physically sick each time a new user posts on this thread with the azoo diagnosis. It's just horrible :nope: Right now I'm trying my best to stay positive and look forwards rather than backwards and I've just found it easier not to come in here. I've also not wanted to sound all down and sad in here, when it's the last thing you girlies - especially the newbies - want to listen to.

That doesn't mean I don't think of you all though and I'm sure I'll be back here soon.

Just had our 4th DIUI last Saturday and fingers crossed it's our turn now. 

Sending you all lots of love and :dust: :hugs:


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## Step Mummy

Good Luck Silverbell - thinking positive thoughts for you X


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## MoBaby

Silvebell: good luck!! Fx this is it for you!


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## Pink Lolly

Step mummy I have only just seen your bfp! Congrats! :happydance:


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## wibble wobble

Good Luck Silverbell


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## Deb111

Sorry I've been AWOL - looks like I've got some catching up to do. Hope everyone is doing ok. Keeping everything crossed for you SB and MoBaby too xx


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## Stinas

silverbell - I wish you all the luck in the world with this DIUI! You deserve it! It is sad to see new people in here....but at least we do have each other.


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## tigerlily1975

HUGE Good Luck to SilverBell and MoBaby!!

:hugs:

C xx


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## cbergs

Well....results are in. Everything looked normal except that my DH FSH levels are high. mTESE has been suggested at a 50% chance of retrieving sperm.

Anyone else out there with this problem that has had success?

We need to figure out if we want to do a "fresh" cycle, or frozen. Fresh is the best bet, but there is that looming 50% chance that nothing will be found- and I know that DH is not yet completely on board with using a donor. AND...this would need to happen in AUGUST! Doesn't give us much time to process anything. 

This is surreal...I honestly can't understand why this happens to anyone. :cry:

-Carrie


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## esuzanne

:wave:Hi everyone! Sorry I have been away, I feellike I need to spend days reading on here just to catch up! I have started writing a journal and wow it really shows how my emotions are all over the place haha. So, I am seeking advice from all of you and anything is welcome! Sorry its soo long! :(

My DH and I went to a urologist who specialized in male infertility and only sees patients for this reason. While a regular uro did his biopsy, we wanted a second opinion and to absorb as much information as we can. DH test for Klinefelters came back normal...and this new dr tested for any microdeletion of the Y chromosome and they too came back normal!! Sigh. He told us that he strongly believes it is something genetic that we just don't have a test for yet in 2012. He said our options are, of course donor, or he can do a MicroTese where he will check the top, middle, and bottom portions of the testicle and of course he doesnt want to freeze any that he finds since they dont do as well, meaning that we would have to do IVF. The chances he said for finding any with this is about 20% and then of course the % of the IVF working. The other option is to send us to New York at Cornell and do the procedure where they basically turn the testicle inside out and search for any...this too would go with IVF and would run about....are you ready? $30,000. The % that this would work are about 40-45%. DH and I have been looking at donors and we are actually ok with it and just ready to get it going....I just dont know what to do? Should we get another opinion? I mean $30,000 would send our child to college, ya know?! I am at a loss here.


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## WANBMUM

Esuzanne- wow that is alot to take in! To be honest I guess only you guys can make that decision. And in my opinion I guess your hubby has to decide, with your support, what he wants to do. Before our final diagnosis my hubby had said he would try anything, have any op possible to have his own children, he had also decided donor would be a definite next option. I would have stood by him no matter what, if he wanted to spend 30 thousand I would have stood by him if it was something he really wanted. I have no idea where we would get that money but I believed it was his body his decision (once he wasn't in any danger) 
As it turned out there was nothing they could do :( and we have moved onto donor :) 
What does your hubby think about the op?


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## esuzanne

Thank you so much for you opinion! He is totally fine with donor and I am too (we actually put a few vials on hold!) as long as I don't start thinking about the things that our child won't have, like his eyes, etx., you know all that stuff that you know makes you sad haha. At this point we just want a child to share our love with. He honestly doesn't want to do another surgery and as you mentioned....where in the world would we get that kind of money. I agree that it is his body and he is the one who should decide what he is comfortable with. I do not want us to make a selfish choice...I really hope that our future child understands whatever we end up doing. We are going to see yet another urologist on the 15th, just as one more opinion. After all of this we never "get our hopes up," bc we have bascially already accepted what we have been given, and that is lots of love to share with a child. You have to draw the line somewhere, and just move on. 

Good luck with your next IUI! That is SO exciting!!!!!


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## Deb111

CBergs - How 'high' is 'high'? and do you have a note of his other hormone levels? Testosterone? LH?


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## WANBMUM

Thanks esuzanne. :) I understand completely, it all takes so much time to come to terms with and I believe it will never go away not having our hubby's babies, it will always be there, I'm sure in 30 years that feeling will still be there but when we have our beautiful baby/ies we won't want to change it or them for the world. 
You both sound like you have a good idea of your decision already, you would need a high percentage of success with an op like that in my opinion and also ask about downsides, could it affect your hubby medically if it didn't work out. etc
You are right to get another opinion, get all the information you can, you can never have too much :)


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## Deb111

esuzanne - that's a tricky one. I know my dh wanted to exhaust every chance we had before giving up, but we weren't looking at those kind of costs and he was dead set against donor sperm too.

I guess if it was me, I might consider the mTESE and IVF and move onto donor sperm if that didn't work, but it's so hard when it all comes down to money.

I really hope you can come to a decision which you are both happy with - it sounds like you're both on the same page anyway so that's great :hugs:


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## Deb111

Good point Wanbmum - make sure you ask about health issues in terms of testosterone production after both types of surgery. The more tissue they remove, the less the ability to produce natural testosterone and this will potentially affect your dh's health further down the line


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## esuzanne

Thanks again ladies! Yes, the dr did say that every time you go in, there is a chance for scar tissue and the T production could change. I mean is it worth MAYBE finally having a child that is 100% biological and then DH be on medications, etc just to stay healthy? So many things to decide. And its like one moment I know that donor is exactly what we should do, then the next I am questioning everything. Ahh drives me crazy haha! We are also on a tight schedule bc of DH being the in military. I do believe that you can always get another opinion, over and over again...there are always options out there if you are willing to spend the $ and perhaps a few risks...so hard to decide when to stop. Thank you all!!! I hope to hear more from others!


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## MrsC8776

Hi esuzanne :hi: 

We were in a similar situation a while back. Do we pay all this money for IVF (nothing covered by insurance) and have make a child or do we go the donor route and put that money towards raising a child? Plus add in the odds of it working the first time. We went the donor route. I guess the way we thought about it was we could have one go at IVF or try many times with IUI/donor. There so much costs involved with the IVF and getting sperm it is insane. Honestly I think it is completely unfair. I think it is best to let the men decide what they want to do. If it was the other way around I would want the decision to be mine. Its a hard choice but from what I have learned is that once a decision is made we can't look back and think about the "what if's." In the end a child will be made and unconditional love will be given to that child no matter what. 

I don't know if any of that made sense. I just wanted to share how we went about deciding to use donor rather than going the IVF route. :flower:


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## Stinas

cbergs - Honestly, I think a frozen cycle might be better. You just never know what they might/might not find during the TESE. Our urologist gave us a 99% chance of finding "tons of sperm" and he ended up finding a couple. All DH's levels were normal. 
Honestly, I find myself saying the same thing...Its crazy and such a shame that this happens to people....usually to the good people too. Nothing ever happens to the people that should not have kids. Its a shame. 

esuzanne - We are in the process of IVF with the sperm they found through the mTESE. By the time we are done, it will cost us over 30k. We are going to fight the mTESE price because it went from estimated 6k to 14kish, thats just another crazy story added to our lovely list. 
I would sit down with a IVF place and see their prices and what they do exactly, then weigh out all your options. You should do whatever you feel is right for you both. Everyone is different so those percentages can change. 
Ultimately, only you two can really make that decision. Its hard to figure out what to do. The cost of IVF is another stress to add onto the whole azoo thing...trust me...our insurance does not cover a thing, so that stress is something we are currently going through. 
I wish it was all easier.


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## cbergs

Deb- He honestly didn't say, maybe because he didn't think it was relevant. According to most literature, if it's higher than 15 than it is a problem with sperm production. I'm sure it was higher than 15...I will call and ask tomorrow. Does the number give insight as to the percentage chance of finding anything?

Stinas- We are going to go with the frozen cycle. If they thaw out and don't work properly when it is time for IVF/ICSI then we will opt for another mTESE and do a fresh cycle toward the end of next winter. (for some reason the Uro only does 2 "fresh cycles" per year??) (by the way, I'm speaking as if he def has some, which I'm not sure, but hey...what is the harm in hoping, right?) :haha:

Esuzanne- welcome, but I'm sorry to see you here. You are in the same boat as my husband and I... This whole thing definitely blows, and most people don't understand. It's great to check in here day to day and feel reassured that we aren't alone, and that there is support out there that totally gets YOU!

I will keep everyone updated...until then, good night.

Love,
Carrie


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## Stinas

cbergs - As my mom says...you need to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. In all our cases thats all we can really do! I really hope they find sperm for you!!!


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## Deb111

cbergs - firstly, I forgot to mention yesterday, that although it feels like a fresh cycle is better, and in fact that is what we chose to do, our urologist said there really isn't a difference. The advantage of a frozen cycle (especially if you end up with a few thousand) is that only the strong sperm survive the thaw. He said it acts as a process of natural selection, wedding out the poor ones :thumbup:

In terms of the FSH - according to Terry's notes, 2 - 12 is normal, his was 17. Mr Ramsay was really pleased with this. He said in conjunction with an LH of 10 (normal being 2-9) and testosterone of 8 and previously 4.3 (normal 8.6 - 29) meant that his body had realised there was some kind of issue and had started to raise the FSH to try to deal with it. Apparently the fact that it wasn't TOO high meant that Mr Ramsay had the scope to push it higher and make his body try harder. He said he had on rare occasions seen sperm in men whose own bodies had pushed their FSH up into the 30's.

After the meds, Terry's levels went to -
FSH - 28 and 23.7 in 2 different tests
LH - stayed at 17
Test - 13.4 and 12.2 in 2 different tests

So basically if it's not too high, there is potentially more hope, but it may indicate medsmight help. Plus it's important to remember that FSH has to be looked at IN CONJUNCTION with other blood test results xx


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## cbergs

Stinas- I am keeping the option of donor sperm in the back of my mind, and will begin seeing a therapist today that specializes in IF. I'm hoping she will help me cope through this whole process. (Whether it's finding sperm, and hoping that everything will work out as planned, or going another route.)

Deb- He had his Testosterone, LH, and FSH checked as well as a Karyotyping and Microdeletion test. Everything came back 100% normal, except the FSH. This is def helping in giving us hope. I mean, if everything else is normal, there has to be a few of those buggers in there somewhere? I mean, doesn't testosterone also tell the testes to make sperm? And if he's good in that area, as well as LH...then, hopefully! All we can do is pray, pray, and pray some more.

Keeping everyone in my thoughts,
Carrie


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## wibble wobble

sorry to put a downer on your hope, all my hubby's tests came back normal except for the raised fsh (I never did find out what it was raised to) our specialist said there was no medication he could put hubby on as his brain had recognised that there was some kind of problem and was trying to fix it hence the fsh result.

We went for tese given a 40% chance of finding sperm and we were hopeful (probably too hopeful), given that only the one hormone was dodgy and nothing was found. I'm not saying lose hope completely as every case is different, just don't think that it's a dead cert you'll find sperm with it only being raised fsh that is your problem. 

Speaking from experience if it does happen to be nothing found at biopsy and you've been thinking too optimistically the result can really hurt... I sometimes think if I hadn't got too excited before the tese, the weeks after the result wouldn't have been so bad :(


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## Step Mummy

esuzanne said:


> Thank you so much for you opinion! He is totally fine with donor and I am too (we actually put a few vials on hold!) as long as I don't start thinking about the things that our child won't have, like his eyes, etx., you know all that stuff that you know makes you sad haha. At this point we just want a child to share our love with. He honestly doesn't want to do another surgery and as you mentioned....where in the world would we get that kind of money. I agree that it is his body and he is the one who should decide what he is comfortable with. I do not want us to make a selfish choice...I really hope that our future child understands whatever we end up doing. We are going to see yet another urologist on the 15th, just as one more opinion. After all of this we never "get our hopes up," bc we have bascially already accepted what we have been given, and that is lots of love to share with a child. You have to draw the line somewhere, and just move on.
> 
> Good luck with your next IUI! That is SO exciting!!!!!

If I can just add a little something without upsetting you - My DH had SSR op and caught an infection which lasted 6 months and he was very very ill with it, it nearly ended in him having his testicle removed which then would have been followed by reconstructive surgery a year later, however a very strong intravenous antibiotic saved it - days before the removal surgery we noticed a slight improvement. We were initially told we had a high percentage of success and on the day of surgery DH was told less than 10%, but as DH was already in the hospital in his gown, he decided he might as well go for it as he was already there. If we had known in advance this % we would not have proceeded and would have gone down the donor route, we only proceeded because of the high chance of success. The next 6 months were pure hell. I am NOT saying this to scare you, or to suggest that you might have any problems, but the opp for £30k sounds very serious, and may have risks associated with it. Just find out what those risks are clearly before running into it headlong just because you want a biological child - listen to the bits that you don't want to hear. My DH was so keen to give me everything I ever wanted and was almost too keen and too easy going into the op.

I am not saying it can't work of course there are loads of ladies on here who's DH's have had successful SSR's and who have had successful IVF/ICSI following. It's just there is a huge amount to consider and it is as possible that things can go wrong as well as right.

I hope I have not up-set you, I just wanted to urge caution into your decisions, never wanting anyone to experience anything like we did.

There are no right or wrong decisions, it's just you and hubbies choice to get where you need to be. My thoughts are with you while you are making this tough decision, and taking the time to get there.

I am so sad to hear people still going down those same steps we took a couple of years ago. 

Good luck in figuring it out. x


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi everyone. I too am just feeling too down and depressed to post these days. I'm on the pill pre- donor IUI and it is making me into a depressed crazy person. I took today's pill late and am this.close to calling the whole thing off. If I am angry/crying all the time on the pill, I don't think I could do clomid either. Suddenly I am questioning everything. I have made an appointment to see my family doctor for antidepressants, even if that means I have to wait a few months before doing the IUI. I think I just hit my rock bottom and really regret not pushing for antidepressants when we got our dx.

As for deciding between mTESE with small percentages (same stats we were given too, BTW), I had to leave it up to DH. We would have loved to have his bio child. Desperately. But, he's 44 in Sept and we just didn't feel like we had months and months to decide. Our clinic only does fresh ICSI, so we would have been taking a huge gamble and probably would have ended up with donor sperm at a huge cost. I knew emotionally, I wouldn't be able to to an egg retrieval an hour after discovering it wouldn't be DH's biobaby. It's a lot of money and I really didn't want the huge debt reminding us for the next few years of his azoo and failures.

I am still nervous as hell to go through with the donor. DH is starting to get nervous because I am. I'm not sure if it's because I am a crazy person these days with the BCP or if there is more. We're going to spend some time talking tonight and this weekend about it.

I am thinking about you all and will try to pop in more. I'm just so caught up in my own hell, I know I am not being the buddy I want to be.


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## Deb111

wibble wobble said:


> sorry to put a downer on your hope, all my hubby's tests came back normal except for the raised fsh (I never did find out what it was raised to) our specialist said there was no medication he could put hubby on as his brain had recognised that there was some kind of problem and was trying to fix it hence the fsh result.
> 
> We went for tese given a 40% chance of finding sperm and we were hopeful (probably too hopeful), given that only the one hormone was dodgy and nothing was found. I'm not saying lose hope completely as every case is different, just don't think that it's a dead cert you'll find sperm with it only being raised fsh that is your problem.
> 
> Speaking from experience if it does happen to be nothing found at biopsy and you've been thinking too optimistically the result can really hurt... I sometimes think if I hadn't got too excited before the tese, the weeks after the result wouldn't have been so bad :(

I was just popping back on to say something along the same lines. As I said before, I don't know that raised FSH in itself is much of an indicator on it's own. I think ours was treatable to an extent because of the combination of raised FSH *and* low testosterone. Of course, the fact that your dh's FSH is raised, means that his body has recognised the problem and is trying to rectify it - whether or not his body is being successful in doing so is the gamble you're looking at xx


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## Deb111

CM - I'm sorry you're going through such a tough time. I went back on my anti-depressants for a while before the IVF and it just gave me the boost I needed to get my head a bit straighter before the IVF.

Don't ever feel bad about not feeling strong enough to be supportive on here. If you need some time away for whatever reason, then so be it, but please don't stay away because you feel you're bringing people down. Everyone is here to support you, whatever stage you're at and whatever route you decide to take. There have been plenty of other times when others have felt very low and you have been there for them.

Be kind to yourself xx :hugs:


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## WANBMUM

Well said Deb. Canadian, this is the time when you need this support. We have all been there at some stage or another in this process. 
You sound like you are overwhelmed at the moment and you def need some time to relax and get your head and hormones back to normal. You poor thing your hormones are all over the place. just remember it is the pill, not you, when you are feeling crazy, remind yourself of that. 
Even though most of this journey goes so slowly, at times I have felt it has all moved so fast and you barely have time to breath, that sometimes the waiting can be good to get your thoughts in place and just switch off at times. 
Hope your ok, can you change the 'type' of pill your using? You poor thing = sending you hugs x


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## MoBaby

Cm: Hugs! This is such a difficulty journey :(


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## deafgal01

Deb- can you update front page for me- My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. DH currently on Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole. DH's Biopsy results says that it's not blockage issue even though sperms have been found in testes (mobility seems to be an issue) as of July 23, 2012. Currently thinking about donor sperm route (out of 3 options we've been given, 1) DH stays on meds, 2) ivf with sperm retrieval, and 3) sperm donor.


As for all the other ladies on here-
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: to all of you who are in need of some support right now.

:dust: :dust: :dust: to all of you undergoing iui or ivf to get your babies this month/cycle.


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## MoBaby

Deafgal: sorry about the results :( that's a tough decision to make for you guys. Its never easy discussing donor sperm... My DH shuts me down if I try to discuss it. He gets very angry. 

I never posted my dh blood results. I dont know if anyone has any opinions on them or seem similar:
Prolactin: 9.8
LH: 9.03
FSH: 13.320 (urologist said this needs to be under 3 which confuses me because the range is 1.4-18.1)
Testosterone: 205.530 (low, range 241.00-827.00)
Estradiol: 52

so he had low testosterone, high fsh and borderline high LH.... he gave us no options at the time other than the mTESE, which we didnt do... Our urologist was terrible (in my opinion, others do like him)..

I had my saline sonogram today... all clear! Cavity finally looks good :) Free and clear of that big honker of a fibroid that was occupying half my pelvis!


----------



## deafgal01

MoBaby- that's some good news on the fibroid front. :thumbup: That sucks that the urologist you had was horrible. :hugs:

It is hard realizing our three options are that. I'd love to do ivf with sperm retrieval but I don't think I could make DH go thru that again- and I'm not sure how successful it'd be for us. So technically and financially I don't think we can justify the costs if we took that route. Thus it leaves us with option 1 or 3- 1 being the meds with some hopeful wishful thinking and 3 being donor. So that's why we're both thinking we'll be fine with sperm donor but we still have quite a ways to go before we're ready for that route- there's questions we need to ask the dr and the pricing we need to find out if/when we buy the donor sperms. DH will keep taking the meds until he runs out of the clomid version.


----------



## cbergs

I agree with you guys, but I kind of like feeling hopeful at the moment. I will cross the other path when that time comes. If I wallow, it will only make things much worse. Today has been a bad day with all of this... Haven't cried this hard since we received dh's first SA results. I wish this would all just go away...


----------



## deafgal01

hang in there cbergs :hugs:


----------



## raelynn

Hey all, just wanted to let you all know I'm back from vacation and have been lurking. Vacation was a great help to start getting through the grieving process. It still hurts when I think about what almost was but hubby and I had some great time together and are definitely doing better. We've decided to move on to donor IUI since we only have 1 vial of hubby's sperm left frozen and they used 4 for our last IVF and only ended up with 2 embryos. We're worried that another time may end up in another miscarriage because of sperm quality and if we did IVF and another TESE we could only go through one time where donor IUI we could afford to do it again if we need to. We even picked out a donor while we were away. I'm just having trouble ramping up for another cycle when I'm so scared we'll get the same results. Hope everyone else is doing well.


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: Rae, we're all dealt with such a tough card aren't we with all of our journeys in this. :hugs:


----------



## MrsC8776

Canadian~ :hugs: I'm sorry things are tough right now. I just wanted to send you some hugs.

raelynn~ I'm glad to see you back. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you are doing. Sounds like you guys had a wonderful vacation and some much needed time away. I wish you all the luck in the world with the donor IUI. If you want to join (and are ready) there is a thread for donor IUI that Canadian made for us. :hugs: 

:hi: to everyone else. I have been limiting my posting in here but I want you all to know that I'm cheering you on and hoping for the best.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :hi:

I'm sorry to see so many people struggling at the mo' :hugs: I wish we could all have answers, it's so, so cruel. 

I had my supressed scan today - with a Dr who hadn't looked at my notes. Sheesh. His first question was "Have you had an operation?".. I knew where he was going with this. It's my left ovary, it's very high-up and even with pushing, it didn't want to co-operate. He also mumbled something about cysts, but even with that I'm starting the Gonal-F (just waiting for a call to tell me when/amounts and next test/scan).

I asked what can we do about my ovary and there's nothing, just have to see how it goes. What with my husband's one frozen, "twitchy" sperm and now what might be only one ovary working with me, I'm not feeling at all confident about this cycle. 

My head really isn't in the right place at the moment - we're finishing up at my dad's home, so it really feels like I'm saying goodbye to my parent's all over again and I swear these ruddy hormones aren't helping. 

Okay, mope over, I'm going to curl up on the sofa with a pack of chocolate chip cookies.

Sending all of you huge :hugs: and the strength, from somewhere, to get through this and make our dreams come true. We ALL deserve this so much!!

C xx


----------



## BrandyRelax

So sorry that this has been a rough patch for many. Perhaps just the time of year.

CM - I found that when I was on BCP that were monophasic, I was a nasty witch (perhaps my reaction to them), but when I went on tri-phasic BCP, they are awesome, and my hormones level out, so perhaps they could switch you off the ones you're on and put you on something else - sounds like it's not doing what it should.

As for me - the fertility clinic called and all the test results are in from the millions of tests, so they finally would make an appointment, so we're set to go back for all the results on September 6th at 9am. I'm quite impatient, but again, I don't know if I want the bad news that will likely ensue, but I guess I have to understand what is going on sooner than later. I was surprised that the doc wanted to check me out so much (did the SHG test along with a million blood tests), given that DH has no sperm, it may not matter whether I can have kids or not, but I guess it's better to have the full picture when she's making a recommendation of how we could proceed forward.

Hopefully today is a better day for everyone...

Brandy


----------



## Stinas

cbergs - :hugs: I hope the specialist helps you put your mind at ease with the decision you decide to make!



wibble wobble said:


> Speaking from experience if it does happen to be nothing found at biopsy and you've been thinking too optimistically the result can really hurt... I sometimes think if I hadn't got too excited before the tese, the weeks after the result wouldn't have been so bad :(

I agree and feel the same! The doc kept telling us its the blockage and he was 99% sure there is sperm....well...he was wrong....granted we found enough in the tissue for IVF, but I feel if he just told us there was a 50/50 chance, it would have been easier to cope with. I think no matter what your blood levels are you just never know what your going to find. They found a "blockage" cyst in DH's prostate and all his tests we normal, even genetic, and they found just a couple sperm. So you just never know in my opinion. 
Its just sad its not something that can be easily fixed. We can turn our home lights on from our phones now, you would think this would be an easy thing to fix.

CM - I am sorry you are having a tough time right now. I also agree with deb...we are all here to support each other...happy situations or not....we are all in this together. At the end of the day we all want the same for each other. :hugs:

DG - :flower: :hugs: 

raelynn - Im glad you had a great time on your vacation! I wish you all the luck in the world with DIUI! I know its hard not to be scared, but just know we are all here routing you on! :flower:

Tiger - I wish you lots of luck with this IVF cycle!!! All you need is one! 

MoBaby - Whoohoo Thats great news!

As for me...my estimated ER is now sat or sunday! I go in every day now, so as time goes by I should know an official date.


----------



## Deb111

MoBaby - I don't understand your dr saying about the FSH needing to be below 3 either!? :shrug: A raised FSH shows that your dh's body has recognised there is an issue. Your results are very similar to my dh's - slightly raised FSH, borderline LH and low test. 

Rae - lovely to see you back. It sounds like the break has done you both good and allowed you the tie and space to come to some decisions. If you don't feel you're ready yet and are scared, don't rush into. Delaying things a couple of months wont hurt

MrsC - I hope you're doing ok and not feeling too tired and yuck!

TL - I hope the cookies helped and that you're feeling a bit better about things today :hugs:

Hugs and thoughts to anyone I missed xx


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## MoBaby

Yeah deb that urologist was lame. We wont be going back ever! 
After our ivf baby we are goIng for another opinion I think. It may be a crap shoot but who knows!
Stinas: Saturday or Sunday for er!!!! Yippie!!! 

Brandy: hi! Glad all your testing is over. Hope yo get some answers at your appt!

Rae: glad you are back and has a good time! Sounds like you and dh have a great plan. 

Tiger: did the dr say anything about difficulty with egg collection with the ovary being so high? I've read about laparoscopic egg retrevial wih a hard to find ovary. Hope all goes well with stims!


----------



## Stinas

Lucky me got a yeast infection, so it looks like ER will be monday. Just my luck. lol I guess I should not complain since it does not hurt....if it was not for the urine test I wouldnt even know. 

Hope everyone is doing well!


----------



## cbergs

Had my HSG done today...worst-experience-ever! SO painful. I wasn't expecting it to be. It's a good thing I didn't research it beforehand, I wouldn't have made it to the hospital today.

Everything looks 100% normal though...so, that was good news. :happydance:

Even in the wake of good news, it's coated with sadness. What good is it that I'M perfect down there if my DH doesn't have a single swimmer to provide me? Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

:cry::cry::cry:


----------



## Stinas

Cbergs - mine sucked too!! When I got mine we were still thinking it was me....little did we know what kind of news we would get a month later. 
It all sucks. It's truly a continued grieving process that never seems to go away. Once you get the ball rolling on what's next for you guys, you will feel better.


----------



## Deb111

MoBaby said:


> Yeah deb that urologist was lame. We wont be going back ever!

Whatever the outcome ends up being, you need to have faith in your urologist and know that you / they did all you could :thumbup:

Cbergs - I'm sorry it was so tough. There really is nothing easy about this journey :hugs:


----------



## BumpHopes

Hi ladies, hope all is well with you. i havent posted on here at all for the past few weeks, needed a break from all things TTC. Which has done me the world of good.

Update on us, no blockage, is Azoo and we are going forward for IVF with donor sperm. So i know its not what we hoped but there is still a light at the end of this tunnel. 

Question - For ladies who have done IVF with donor, did the Dr try IUI first or straight to IVF. We have been referrred in the last few days and know an appt can take up to 26 weeks, BEFORE they actually put us on the list. Any Cardiff people done IVF here? x


----------



## WANBMUM

Bumphopes. Sorry to hear nothing could be done. I'm sure you've had an emotional time over the last while. It sure is a tough reality to get used to. 
However I found once you have a plan in place it eases the pain and you start to focus on the positives.
We are initially doing iui with donor as I have no known fertility issues. This generally is normal practice if no you have no issues, iui then onto ivf. They say after 3 goes at IUI if it hasn't worked it is best to move onto ivf. (as it should within 3)

Have you had to pick your donor as of yet?


----------



## BumpHopes

WANBMUM said:


> Bumphopes. Sorry to hear nothing could be done. I'm sure you've had an emotional time over the last while. It sure is a tough reality to get used to.
> However I found once you have a plan in place it eases the pain and you start to focus on the positives.
> We are initially doing iui with donor as I have no known fertility issues. This generally is normal practice if no you have no issues, iui then onto ivf. They say after 3 goes at IUI if it hasn't worked it is best to move onto ivf. (as it should within 3)
> 
> Have you had to pick your donor as of yet?

Thanks, it has been tough but i do feel better that there is a plan and i know what's going to happen and in a way feel a little back in control of things. 

I got PCOS myself, the urologist just said IVF and did not mention IUI at all, maybe cause of PCOS do you think? I really don't know.

No we not that far along. We have just decided to go for IVF and have just been referred by the urologist. I've been looking on-line for the hospital and the initial appt can take up to 26 weeks so its going to be a long process. 

This might be a really stupid/ personal question, but when picking, did you opt for as close to DH as possible or best donor on offer? Whats your next step in the IUI, what stage are you at now?


----------



## WANBMUM

Bump hopes I cant see pcos being too much of a problem. I have some of the symptoms for it so they put me on a low dose of metformin, I think this has really evened out my ovulation, I used to ov cd16,17,18, whereas now its cd11,12.
I guess you have to wait until your app to see what plan they have for you.

Choosing donor, is again a personal choice. We wanted similar to hubby, eye colour hair colour, for me a baby photo was important whereas my hubby wasn't bothered, he was interested in intellect :) so we narrowed it down to a few we really liked and our clinic made the final choice on numbers etc.


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## Stinas

BumpHopes - Im sorry you didnt get the results you wanted to. Lots of luck with IVF!


----------



## CanadianMaple

BumpHopes said:


> Hi ladies, hope all is well with you. i havent posted on here at all for the past few weeks, needed a break from all things TTC. Which has done me the world of good.
> 
> Update on us, no blockage, is Azoo and we are going forward for IVF with donor sperm. So i know its not what we hoped but there is still a light at the end of this tunnel.
> 
> Question - For ladies who have done IVF with donor, did the Dr try IUI first or straight to IVF. We have been referrred in the last few days and know an appt can take up to 26 weeks, BEFORE they actually put us on the list. Any Cardiff people done IVF here? x

We are doing IUI first, no mention of IVF at all. I have been warned I may have to move to injectables if my LH doesn't stay down, but I'll cross that road when I get there.

It took me a long time to choose a donor. I tried to find one that looks like DH. We really liked this guy's personality too. I find the whole donor thing to be a huge kettle of fish on its own. A few of us have been there, if you have any questions.


----------



## BumpHopes

CanadianMaple said:


> BumpHopes said:
> 
> 
> Hi ladies, hope all is well with you. i havent posted on here at all for the past few weeks, needed a break from all things TTC. Which has done me the world of good.
> 
> Update on us, no blockage, is Azoo and we are going forward for IVF with donor sperm. So i know its not what we hoped but there is still a light at the end of this tunnel.
> 
> Question - For ladies who have done IVF with donor, did the Dr try IUI first or straight to IVF. We have been referrred in the last few days and know an appt can take up to 26 weeks, BEFORE they actually put us on the list. Any Cardiff people done IVF here? x
> 
> We are doing IUI first, no mention of IVF at all. I have been warned I may have to move to injectables if my LH doesn't stay down, but I'll cross that road when I get there.
> 
> It took me a long time to choose a donor. I tried to find one that looks like DH. We really liked this guy's personality too. I find the whole donor thing to be a huge kettle of fish on its own. A few of us have been there, if you have any questions.Click to expand...

Thanks! I was looking on your thread yesterday about DIUI, feel a bit in limbo as dont know whats next if IVF or IUI so dont know any more for a while, but happy something is going to be happening. 

Do you do IUI then IVF if it doesnt work out do you know?


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## CanadianMaple

From what they understand, they recommend least invasive first, then adjust meds, then IVF is the last resort with donor sperm. I figured it was a bit of a payoff, only clomid and a trigger shot, then the IUI. She warned me I may need injectables, but they really are optimistic we will just need IUI.


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## SunUp

Hi everyone! Hope all is going well. I am sorry I have not been on much lately, but I have not forgotten about my wonderful azoo ladies! Baby dust to all! I will be lurking, if you have any questions.


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## momwannabe81

idk if this has been asked before or i'm just being dillusional, but dh has unexplained azoospermia, he produces them but they don't come out. We even did dye test to see of any blockage but nothing found. I was wondering if any of u has the same issue and known of something that could help him. I guess i'm hoping for a miracle and believe that his premature ejac has something to do with that but i am never able to get a straight answer (u know how drs shut u down when asking questions) i just feel that they just said no without even looking into it possibly being related or explaining how it can't be related. We've been trying with donor but still wish could do old fashion way iykwim


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## Deb111

Welcome momwannabe81

Can I ask - if your dh is producing them, can they not surgically retrieve them and then use them for IUI?


----------



## snd80

Hi girls! Sorry I have been AWOL, but I have been through the ringer here lately... I'm still cheering from the sidelines for everyone making progress though! At least someone is dammit!!!! :haha: 

These past 3 weeks have been hard for me. IDK how to _deal_ with all this, and according to my husband, I am making it hard for everyone around me, especially him. He says he is tired of me moaping around looking all sad and thinking/talking of nothing but babies. Like I told him, until _I_ can figure out how to deal with this, I don't know what else to do! He told me last night that it had to stop; he was sick of it ...so we might be splitting up before all this is over. You know what, that just showed that it wasn't as important to him as it was me, and either way I will continue my plan - with or without him. It's like I always have to be in control of every little thing, and this I can't, and it is killing me!!! :nope:

I just wanted to stop in and tell you all I have been thinking of you and best wishes to everyone... Hopefully this "hurricane" of mine will blow over soon. I'm not giving up YET!!! :winkwink:

:hugs:!!!


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## raelynn

snd - I am so very sorry for the storm you are going through right now. I can't imagine trying to get through all this infertility mess without DH on board. I completely understand where you're coming from on the control thing too! I always like to have a plan and to know what is next and that is the absolute WORST with where we are now. Sending you lots of love and hoping this storm blows over soon!


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## Deb111

So sorry things are so tough right now snd :hugs:

It must really tricky when dh is acting like that - afterall, we cant blame them for what we're having to go through, but we are going through it because of an issue they have and he really should be supporting you

I really hope things improve soon xx :hugs:


----------



## momwannabe81

Deb111 said:


> Welcome momwannabe81
> 
> Can I ask - if your dh is producing them, can they not surgically retrieve them and then use them for IUI?

They can for IVF but it's not a financial option for us. :cry:


----------



## Stinas

snd - Im sorry you are going through an even tougher time after all of this! Do what you feel is best for you and your future...thats all that matters...you need to put yourself first.

As for me....ER was yesterday....we got 12 eggs, 10 mature and as of today 3 fertilized with the possibility of a couple more with late fertilization. They managed to not use all our frozen sperm, so we still have some left. ET is set for sat or sunday. We are still unsure how many we will transfer...but leaning more towards 2. Its a lot to think about. 

Hope everyone is doing well!!


----------



## Deb111

momwannabe81 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Welcome momwannabe81
> 
> Can I ask - if your dh is producing them, can they not surgically retrieve them and then use them for IUI?
> 
> They can for IVF but it's not a financial option for us. :cry:Click to expand...

It's so frustrating when this all comes down to money :nope:


----------



## Deb111

Great news Stinas - keeping everything crossed for those late developers too - our LO was a late developer in that it didn't go to blastocyst until day 6 instead of day 5 :thumbup:


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## Stinas

Deb - thanks for giving me hope! Im just hoping my age and good uterus helps! You can update me in the front page if you like.


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## momwannabe81

Deb111 said:


> momwannabe81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Welcome momwannabe81
> 
> Can I ask - if your dh is producing them, can they not surgically retrieve them and then use them for IUI?
> 
> They can for IVF but it's not a financial option for us. :cry:Click to expand...
> 
> It's so frustrating when this all comes down to money :nope:Click to expand...

I know right!!!! They are looking into paying for abortion but won't pay for infertility. Read that they tried at the congress to pass a law where all insurances have to pay for infertility but were shut down several times.:dohh:


----------



## deafgal01

momwannabe81 said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> Welcome momwannabe81
> 
> Can I ask - if your dh is producing them, can they not surgically retrieve them and then use them for IUI?
> 
> They can for IVF but it's not a financial option for us. :cry:Click to expand...

I can def relate. This is where I am at right now, deciding which path to take and that one is tempting but money wise we cannot afford that either.


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## tigerlily1975

SND: I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time at the mo' :hugs: Unfortunately, the stress that comes along with infertility means we tend to take it out of those closest to us. I hope that given a little time, you will both get to a place where you can find the strength to move on to the next stage. Hell, it's not easy, but if you can get through this, you can get through anything! You are still young, darling, so time is very much on your side. You could take a break and save-up for another few rounds and you'd still be on the right side of 35. The lovely Deb and MJ have shown that we can do it - I'm very much looking at them for inspiration at present! Good luck, hun and please stay in touch... we're always here for you!! :hugs:

Stinas: That's fantastic news, hun! Sending you tonnes of GOOD LUCK for the transfer! 

momwannabe: Argh, I'm so sorry that once again it comes down to money. This whole situation is very hard to deal with, but I hope the donor IVF brings you your baby!

Rae: How are you holding up, darling? I hope you're taking it easy :hugs:

SunUp: I noticed in your sig that you're on IUI #3, keeping everything crossed for you!

CanadianMaple: You're due to start soon, aren't you? GOOD LUCK, hun!

BumpHopes: I hope you've had some news about an appointment. The waiting is a killer!

WanBMum: Good luck with IUI #2, really, really hoping this is the one!

Debs: Thanks for the :hugs: ..... they were very much appreciated! I hope you're getting plenty of rest.

Big :hi: and :hugs: to everyone else... I hope you're all hanging in there! 

AFM: The hospital wanted to scan me again before starting the Gonal F (that was Monday) and again... my left ovary! Another new Dr, but at least this one explained the issue. My left ovary is high (husband keeps giggling about this as when they say "high ovary" he's imaging it sitting there, all chilled out smoking a spliff! Hell, you gotta laugh or you'd go mad, right?!) and my bladder is actually in the way. He's hoping that when they enlarge from the Gonal F (starting that tomorrow) it'll drop down a bit and they might be able to 'force it' further down when I'm under (Eeeeek!), but he's obviously worried about catching the bladder :-( 

There's always something, isn't there? Wish we could catch a ruddy break, but I know wishing isn't going to change anything and all you can do is keep going, right?

Ooh, one quick question; has anyone else had terrible headaches from Buserelin? I'm incredibly tearful at the mo', too, but that could also be from sorting out my parent's house.. my dad loved writing notes and each one I find sets me off no end! Bloody hormones! 

Right, I'm off to raid the fridge... chocolate... chocolate... chocolate! 

More :hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

DG: I thought I'd added you! *slaps wrist* Have you had any more thoughts about your next step? Why does it always come down to money, eh? How does your DH feel about going down the donor route? It really is a lot to think about. Big :hugs: on their way to you, hun.

C xx


----------



## deafgal01

Dh was wondering what the baby would call him- daddy or by his name. I guess we have a while before we are ready for the next steps. Think we will definitely do donor sperm as that is cheapest of the options we have been given but think we will attempt to pay off the medical bills and save up for it (over the next one year).


----------



## raelynn

I'm completely with you ladies on the money thing. Hubby and I had a nice long talk when we were still deciding and said this would be our choice in a world where money wasn't an object and this would be our choice where we are now. It has taken us a while to get used to the idea of donor sperm, especially coming off a pregnancy that was biologically both of ours. Hubby ended up finding out one of the couples he knows conceived using donor sperm so he's feeling a bit better about the whole thing now. I told him there are probably tons of donor sperm babies out there it's just not something that everyone advertises. Monday we go in for our consultation to go over the new plan. Glad things will be moving forward again soon.

DG - If we conceive with donor sperm the child will definitely call hubby daddy. He will be the father in every important sense of the word. Anyone can contribute biological material, it takes someone special to be a dad. We're looking at it as a half adoption. Had we adopted, we'd be mommy and daddy too.


----------



## Stinas

raelynn said:


> *He will be the father in every important sense of the word. Anyone can contribute biological material, it takes someone special to be a dad. We're looking at it as a half adoption. Had we adopted, we'd be mommy and daddy too*.

You couldnt have said it any better!! 

It really truly is a shame when it comes down to money. Something needs to be done about this.


----------



## MrsC8776

DG~ Our children will call my hubby daddy. Theres no way we would have it any other way. The children ARE his and no one else's. Just because we go this route doesn't mean our husbands are not the dad. That wouldn't be fair to anyone. Like raelynn said there are tons of people out there who use a donor of some sort to have a child. It's just not something people talk about.


----------



## momwannabe81

Well hope we all get what we want. I will probably look into IUI and go from there. If i can get myself to quit smoking i might donate some eggs and go the IVF route. It's the only legal stress reliever lol and probably the worst but it's hard.....Hopefully this clinic won't ask for a down payment like the old one did. They wouldn't start anything until the $3k were paid. Seriously!!!!!!!!!! I know it don't sound like much but it's to me at least.


----------



## tigerlily1975

The cost for treatment is shocking! I saw a program about the cost of obesity on the NHS and we're talking millions here and you think, well, obesity is preventable, what we're dealing with isn't. We can't help these infertility issues, why can't you take this seriously and put more money in to its treatment/research! 

On the whole donor-daddy subject, we're still talking about using a donor as we might have to go down that route if the IVF doesn't work. I actually have a half-brother (my mum was married in her late teens and had my brother, his dad was an ar*ehole and left my lovely mum, who later remarried and then I came along) and he and my dad adored each other. What I mean is, as you've all said, the biology doesn't come in to. My dad loved my brother as much as he loved me and my brother actually refuses any contact with his 'real' dad, because "he's not my dad". I know that this not the exact same scenario, but it's just something I've brought up when discussing the subject with my husband. 

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## Step Mummy

deafgal01 said:


> Dh was wondering what the baby would call him- daddy or by his name. I guess we have a while before we are ready for the next steps. Think we will definitely do donor sperm as that is cheapest of the options we have been given but think we will attempt to pay off the medical bills and save up for it (over the next one year).

Hi there, your baby will of course call him daddy, without a doubt. I think that maybe you both need a little time to get used to the idea, it took me months before I could move forward, whereas DH wanted to get going immediately. But remember you are making the baby together, he will be there for every injection, scan and procedure holding your hand, it is your joint choice in chosing the donor and going forward, he will be a parent as much as you will be. I know it is tough and unfrotunately for me that hasn't eased even though I am now PG, I still worry about seeing the donor in the baby and seeing characteristics that are not me and knowing they are from someone else. I just hope as time goes by that disappears.

Take your time in working through this together, it is a tough journey, but it is a joint journey and there is no other father/daddy person in the world to your baby except your hubby.

Good luck, thinking of you during this tough time xx


----------



## Step Mummy

snd80 said:


> These past 3 weeks have been hard for me. IDK how to _deal_ with all this, and according to my husband, I am making it hard for everyone around me, especially him. He says he is tired of me moaping around looking all sad and thinking/talking of nothing but babies. Like I told him, until _I_ can figure out how to deal with this, I don't know what else to do! He told me last night that it had to stop; he was sick of it ...so we might be splitting up before all this is over. You know what, that just showed that it wasn't as important to him as it was me, and either way I will continue my plan - with or without him. It's like I always have to be in control of every little thing, and this I can't, and it is killing me!!! :nope:
> 
> :hugs:!!!

Ah hon, I am worried about you. I know from my own experience how tough this is, but i can see this is killing you. If this is now affecting your relationship I would suggest you consider speaking to a counsellor -do they have that offered as a service at your clinic?

I know you are taking a break, so this is not over. I think from what I have got to know about you over the last few months is that you are in a very similar sitation to me; you are using a donor and your own fertility is good/no problems. So please remember, it is really just about time. It took me 5 goes and each one was tougher and tougher, but it just goes to show, it is just a matter of time until it happens. As someone on here said, and I truly believe their statement; "it's not that you cant get PG, its that you give up". 

I know your finances are a killer too, but you will get there, just be patient. Try to find something else to focus on. Can you and hubby have a break away for a few days, try to spend sometime together and talk about something else? but definately look at getting some help, you should not have to live life in a constant missery and be unhappy all of the time - thats just awful.

I wish you the best of luck, it will happen, its just when. xxx


----------



## ShortyA22

Hey Everyone... I just wanted to give an update- I went today for my Follow up Appoint with RE about our failed IVF cycle! Well pretty much.. Everything seemed perfect- She said I responded perfect to the meds and the Eggs were great- so for the next cycle she wants to keep the same protocol since I responded so well- Well we retreived 13 Eggs- 11 were fertilized with ICSI and 9 were good.. We had to use frozen testicular sperm- We had 8 Vials of sperm and they used 2 during IVF cycle and they did a thaw test before IVF cycle to see how it survived so now we have 5 Vials left. Everything with the sperm seemed good- it thawed well and it fertilized all eggs... Well since we had more than 6 embryos on day 3- and all were doing well, they wanted to go to a day 5 transfer. Well on Transfer day, my embryos werent doing good and the 2 best that they chose were graded really low.. So... were not sure what the problem was or what happened.. The RE seems to think there could be an issue with the sperm that caused poor quality embryos- So she wants to change that protocol up and see about just doing a day 3 transfer and then transferring 3 EMBRYOS back instead of 2... 
DH has a blockage and we have previously talked about having it fixed as it is about the same price as one round of IVF- so RE is going to talk to the Urologist and go over our cycle and the embryos and get his opinion about the sperm- bc we know there are lots of sperm and we know they can fertilize- but we dont know if something is going on with the sperm.. and unfortunately there is no way to find out- So it could be a waste of time and money if we go the route to fix blockage bc even if it comes out then we may still not be able to get prego.
RE is also going to talk to the head Embryologist and have her to review all our embryos on the days and see if it is possible they will be able to pick 3 out instead of 2 on day 3.. 

So.. we are going to wait and hear back from RE and get all the details and see whats our best option..

DH doesnt want to do Donor at all and she pretty much said if the 2nd cycle fails- we shouldnt do IVF again and Donor may be our only option- She does think we have a good chance on a 2nd cycle bc they know where the issue was and they can care for it in a different way

and with IVF of course it doesnt work and there may not be any issues with his sperm- thats just the only thing she could think why it didnt work bc everything else was perfect.
So, if we decide to do another round then I can start BCP when AF arrives at the end of August.


----------



## CanadianMaple

snd- I'm so sorry. This is so tough and I know when my DH isn't being very empathic, it's 100 times harder. I hope things start looking up for you soon.

I'm so upset. It looks like my incompetent clinic is canceling my cycle again because one of DH's tests doesn't take 3-4 weeks, but 2-3 MONTHS to come in. I don't get it. They need a lesson in empathy too. I posted about my clinic woes and you can read all about it if you're interested: https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/a...61-deal-clinic-issues-so-upset-very-long.html

For those of you who did donor IUI or IVF, what kind of infectious testing did they do on your DH? How quick did the results come back?

I hope to come back for personals tomorrow. I am starting to think all of this is not meant to be.


----------



## MrsC8776

shorty~ it sounds like the clinic you are at knows what they are doing. Trust that it will work and that you RE knows what she is doing. Everything went great so I'm sure it will again. 

Canadian~ My hubby didn't have to do any testing as far as I know. I say that because he did get some blood taken a week prior because we were going to do IVF. I don't understand why they need results for your DH if you are going the donor route. :shrug: That seems confusing to me. The results for the testing came back within the same day and next day. Is there a different clinic you could start going to? One that does things right and listens to you? I think even gyno's can do IUI's now? Might be something to check into if you are fed up with your clinic.


----------



## CanadianMaple

MrsC- Unfortunately, the next closest clinic is in Halifax, about a 6-7 hour round trip. :( They wanted to make sure he didn't have anything to pass on to me and the potential baby, plus if I caught something, they would know we were both clean before using a donor's sperm.

I cannot believe they are doing this.


----------



## MrsC8776

I see. That makes sense. Hopefully you can get in touch with them first thing in the morning. :hugs:


----------



## raelynn

Canadian - We had the infectious disease screening done as one of our prep tests for IVF. It took about 3-4 weeks to come in. Seems absurdly long to be waiting for tests results - 2-3 months! I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this and I would definitely be frustrated too since they just cancelled a cycle on you!


----------



## Stinas

ShortyA22 - It seems like they know what they are doing! Its good you have a plan!! I hope it works out for you this cycle!!

Canadian - DH only had to do Genetic testing, which took maybe a week or two and needed a physical, thats about it.


----------



## CanadianMaple

DH had to wait 3 months last spring for all of his genetic tests. This one is a cousin to HIV or something with T cells and leukemia? I must have been tested too and all of my results are in. It makes no sense.

I left them an emotional message on their voicemail today at 10:30. No one has called me back. I'm not happy, I am meeting family in an hour for lunch and cannot be dealing with them on the phone with everyone listening.


----------



## Deb111

CM - I wonder if there is somewhere more local that could scan you and fax details through to the Halifax clinic, but them be in control of your care and do the iui? Our IVF clinic was a 6 hour round trip away but definitely worth it! We only had to go there for an initial consultation, EC / mTESE, transfer and then the FET a few months later. It might be worth looking into - I wouldn't want to give the clinic you're with now another penny of my money and it is also important that you have faith and trust in the people treating you.

I'm so sorry they're being so **** :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

My RE just called me back personally. DH had a reactive Hep C test. They are doing further testing. :(

I'm off the pill and will have to call them back in 6 week to see if the results are in yet. If he is positive, he will need to see a specialist for treatment. If it's a false negative, we can start over again.

I am not looking forward to telling him. He's not going to take it well. The blow finding out about the low T, then that he has some crazy antigen and could react to blood transfusions and now this. He was hit by a drunk driver in 1998 and had 50+ transfusions. I'm guessing he was exposed to something then. He still thinks the sepsis he had affected his testicular function and this is going to be another blow.

I'm worried he is going to give up. He'll be 44 next month and has been worried about his age, and in the past few months, his health too. :(


----------



## MrsC8776

I'm so sorry. :hugs: Something good will come out in the end of all this.


----------



## Deb111

Just saw your post in the facebook group CM - I'm so sorry you've had yet another blow. This journey is so cruel :nope:

It sounds like right now you both need a lot of TLC and I have no doubt that you will give it to each other. I know there are lots of unanswered questions, but at least you have an answer to one question and at least it takes the uncertainty out of them starting and cancelling your cycles for a bit. Not that that probably helps you right now, but I'm sure you've had enough of them messing you about with starting and stopping cycles.

I hope dh doesn't take it too badly and that you're doing ok.

Thinking of you xx :hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: CM that is hard. :hugs:


----------



## Stinas

Cm - I'm sorry. It seems like you guys can't catch a break. I really hope it's a false one. :hugs:


----------



## SunUp

My 3rd IUI didn't work.
I am going to go on to IVF.
I'll probably be in my journal area for a while, good luck to everyone, I promise to come back.


----------



## Stinas

SunUp - Im sorry but good luck with your IVF journey


----------



## tigerlily1975

Extra :hugs::hugs: winging their way to CM and Sun, I wish this journey would get easier for all of us.

C xx


----------



## CanadianMaple

Deb- I have a question for you, or for anyone who knows much about testosterone.

DH told his family doctor about the azoo back in June. His doctor decided to re-test him and also check his bioavailable testosterone. DH finally called him today and his results are now within normal range. :wohoo:

His test results in January were 4.2 (range we were told was 9-38). Today he was told it was 12.7 (normal 10-52) and his bioavailable was 3.8 (normal 2-14).

Should we ask for another sperm test? What could cause this to happen? Does it fluctuate much during the day? This one may have been 2 hrs earlier than his other one.

I know it probably doesn't mean we have sperm, but I am letting that creep into my head. 

We're still on hold because of the Hep C testing and if he is positive, they probably wouldn't let him do it anyway. Just wondering what your opinion is.


----------



## Deb111

Great news about dh's testosterone results - if nothing else, its good news for his general health. We were told that testosterone should be checked in the morning but i doubt a couple of hours would make a huge difference. Your dh's numbers are still at the lower end so i wouldn't get your hopes up, but i see no harm in getting another SA done. Oddly terry's result is now on the low end but within normal and mr ramsay is really surprised as he would have expected it to be lower than before the mTese :shrug:


----------



## CanadianMaple

I don't think I can convince him to get a SA done right away, but I am going to ask him if he would think about it.

Even with the Hep C stuff, I guess it wouldn't really matter right now.

I spoke to my doctor and he doesn't think I would be able to convince the clinic to let us proceed without those Hep C results. I did put a call in and hope they call me back, just so I can say I asked. I want to hear what they say about the testosterone change too. 

I feel like everything is so up in the air. My poor brain hurts.


----------



## rdleela

Hi, ladies, I haven't posted in sooooo long, but I have been stalking, and reading all your stories. I feel for everyone who is having a tough time right now, I myself have been having a rough go of it lately...just feeling really angry at my situation.

Update on us, DH is having his surgery on Sept.28th (tentative). He's having a Vasoepididymostomy to by-pass a blockage. We'll be able to start TTC on October 28th, really hoping my next few cycles go a bit long and I'll ovulate that week! Right now it's looking like I'll "O" the week before Oct.28th. I know it's a long shot those first few months post-surgery, but want to squeeze all the "tries" in that we can! I just hate wasting each cycle right now.

Anyways, for more of an update on me (or really just to read my latest rant, lol), feel free to stalk my journal, link below!

Oh, and Deb, could you please update my info on the front page to: Vasoepididymostomy surgery to by-pass blockage Sept.28/2012. Can start TTC: Oct.28/2012.

Best of luck to all my azoos ladies; although I may be on a different path than you all, the reason for our infertility stays the same, and NO ONE understands like we all do!


----------



## Arimas

Hi Ladies, I have to catch up on everyone in this thread but wanted to say hello. 

Canadian Maple- That is good that you will ask, I hope they let you go forward w/o the results. 

RDleela-I have been stalking also but will try to post more often since I start the BCP tomorrow to get ready for IVF#2.


----------



## tigerlily1975

rdleela: That's great that you have a date for the surgery. I hope it works and you can then TTC 'naturally'.

Arimas: Good luck with your new cycle, I hope this is the one for you!

I have my first scan tomorrow, so we'll get some idea as to whether this Gonal F is doing it's job. I'm not liking these side effects, so it bloody well better be!!... Keep everything crossed for us, ladies! Thankoooo! 

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## cbergs

Hi Ladies,

So we finally have a date for my husband's mTESE...Sept. 7th.

My question to you all is...how did you get through that day?? What did you do with yourselves during the surgery? How did you get through waiting for that phone call? 

And for those of you who got that call that they found nothing...how did you handle that?

I just can't even stand life right now, and need to fast forward a year from now. Whichever way this surgery goes, I know I won't feel this way next summer. 

Thanks,
Carrie

ps. SunUp said she invited me to the private facebook page, but I didn't get it for some reason. Can someone private message me about this?


----------



## Deb111

Carrie - with the mTESE I was amazed how easily I got through the wait, but then I was with my Mum as she had come down to London with us the night before as Terry was having his mTESE and I was having my EC - so I had nurses popping in doing my BP etc. Try taking a good book or a crossword puzzle book or maybe some music to listen to? Go for a walk? It's not going to be easy, but it may help a little :hugs: Will you get the results the same day?

With regards to the FB group, SunUp made me an administrator so if you PM me your name on FB, I will try and send you a request (although I'm not very good with FB!)


----------



## raelynn

I took a book to read during hubby's TESE. My dad was there too though so we talked through most of it. The wait isn't really terrible and we got some results as soon as hubby got out of surgery so we already knew what to expect which made the wait for the official results easier.


----------



## Stinas

cbergs - I went alone, but the whole time I was under the impression that we were going to find LOADS of sperm, because thats the impression the urologist was under. As time dragged on...longer than "normal" I got a pit in my stomach and knew they didnt find the pot of gold they thought they would. I got the results right away. The doc came out and gave me the news that he only found a few. It was devastating. A day later the IVF center said they got 2 vials of sperm for ICSI, so it made it all better for us. 
Just go in with an open mind. It is what it is and you cant change it. You just need to be there for DH and comfort him because its a painful process. DH is still sensitive down there and its been over a month. 
I would love to fast forward as well! Life works in mysterious ways. 
Are you going to freeze whatever you find? 
Good luck with the TESE...I hope you got lots of nice sperm!!!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Deb can you update me on the front page too: Donor IUI on hold due to reactive Hep C test. Waiting for results before we can proceed. 

rdleela- So excited to hear you finally have a date! I hope you were able to enjoy some of our short summer!

Carrie- So great that you have a TESE date! It will be here before you know it!


----------



## SunUp

cbergs said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> So we finally have a date for my husband's mTESE...Sept. 7th.
> 
> My question to you all is...how did you get through that day?? What did you do with yourselves during the surgery? How did you get through waiting for that phone call?
> 
> And for those of you who got that call that they found nothing...how did you handle that?
> 
> I just can't even stand life right now, and need to fast forward a year from now. Whichever way this surgery goes, I know I won't feel this way next summer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Carrie
> 
> ps. SunUp said she invited me to the private facebook page, but I didn't get it for some reason. Can someone private message me about this?

I need you to accept my friend request before you can be added to the group... I can send the friend request again...


----------



## cbergs

SunUp said:


> cbergs said:
> 
> 
> Hi Ladies,
> 
> So we finally have a date for my husband's mTESE...Sept. 7th.
> 
> My question to you all is...how did you get through that day?? What did you do with yourselves during the surgery? How did you get through waiting for that phone call?
> 
> And for those of you who got that call that they found nothing...how did you handle that?
> 
> I just can't even stand life right now, and need to fast forward a year from now. Whichever way this surgery goes, I know I won't feel this way next summer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Carrie
> 
> ps. SunUp said she invited me to the private facebook page, but I didn't get it for some reason. Can someone private message me about this?
> 
> I need you to accept my friend request before you can be added to the group... I can send the friend request again...Click to expand...

OooooOOOHHh!! lol Are you LB? I just accepted you!! I had no idea who that was, and I was looking for a page invite! Thanks so much!! I knew it wasn't you...I'm just a FB idiot. :) Thanks!


----------



## cbergs

Thanks everyone for the good ideas...

It is really tough because my family lives about 450 miles away, so they aren't around- but I asked my MIL if she would go with me- because listen to this craziness...

As soon as DH is finished with his surgery, his tissue sample will be packed up and _I_ need to drive it to my RE's office two towns over . (It's where the embryologist is as well) I guess he said that they couldn't pay a courier enough money to transport something so valuable. It's up to me!

Anyway, my MIL has agreed to come with me for that ride, but has hinted that she isn't going to get up early to sit with me while he is in surgery. (We are having the surgery in Boston, MA which is an hour and a half away from our house, and need to be there for 7AM) I guess I need to put my big girl panties on and just sit through it. A little disappointing though. You'd think she'd be a tad more sensitive than that. I mean, it's probably her mutated genes that caused this! (Obvi it could have been my FIL's as well, but he is the primary breadwinner and HAS to work!) 

Anyhow- I've been waking up with a pit in my stomach most mornings now because I'm a teacher and school will be starting on August 28th. We are using a completely new curriculum, so I'm freaked out by that, never mind having to meet all my new students. Ugh! The beginning of the year is always anxiety inducing for me. I guess I'll try to use this as a way to take my mind off waiting for the surgery date to approach.

Stinas - The urologist said that we are good candidates for freezing whatever we find. He said that he tries to stay away from "fresh cycles" because I would need to correlate my IVF cycle with the surgery, and if they find nothing, AND we had backup donor sperm, he said he wouldn't want us to use it. "We wouldn't be psychologically ready to be pregnant..." Which is the God's honest truth. I'm glad he is so interpersonal.

I will keep you all updated. Thanks for the support.

-Carrie


----------



## SunUp

cbergs said:


> SunUp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cbergs said:
> 
> 
> Hi Ladies,
> 
> So we finally have a date for my husband's mTESE...Sept. 7th.
> 
> My question to you all is...how did you get through that day?? What did you do with yourselves during the surgery? How did you get through waiting for that phone call?
> 
> And for those of you who got that call that they found nothing...how did you handle that?
> 
> I just can't even stand life right now, and need to fast forward a year from now. Whichever way this surgery goes, I know I won't feel this way next summer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Carrie
> 
> ps. SunUp said she invited me to the private facebook page, but I didn't get it for some reason. Can someone private message me about this?
> 
> I need you to accept my friend request before you can be added to the group... I can send the friend request again...Click to expand...
> 
> OooooOOOHHh!! lol Are you LB? I just accepted you!! I had no idea who that was, and I was looking for a page invite! Thanks so much!! I knew it wasn't you...I'm just a FB idiot. :) Thanks!Click to expand...

Lmao, yeah! I added you:thumbup: I was so confused as to why it wasn't working, I thought you never got my friend request! Hhaha, sorry about that!


----------



## Stinas

hope everyone is doing well!
Quick crummy update on me....BFN after transferring 2 (5aa & stage 1 blast) embryos. Planning on FET mid oct. 

For those of you who did FET....is it better to wait for second period or go on BCP's this coming period? Doc gave me these options and I dont know which to take.


----------



## Deb111

So sorry Stinas :hugs: 

We were advised to wait a cycle in between the ICSI and FET but were told there was no reason we couldn't go for it straight away but that was an unmedicated / natural cycle. Will yours be medicated or natural?

As it happened, I wouldn't have mentally been ready to go for the FET straight away and with finances and christmas in between, it ended up being about 3 months. I personaaly think it did my body good to have a rest from the drugs etc


----------



## Stinas

Thank you Deb. 
She said if I wanted to start with this period, I would be on BCP's for about two weeks, then estrogen pills, then PIO after transfer. If I wanted to wait until the next cycle after this one, we would not need the BCP's. Is that what you mean by medicated? 
I think I am leaning more towards the second cycle...it seems flushing all these drugs out of my system and having time to heal might be a better choice.


----------



## Deb111

Stinas - when i said medicated i meant in terms of daily injections to time ov as opposed to just timing the fet to match your natural ov and using scans to determine ov and timing when to transfer. I did end up triggering just as a precaution - they suggested it would be an ectra back up to make sure things were spot on.

I think giving your body a month off from meds, scans abd retrieval procedures can o ly do it good x x


----------



## cbergs

Sorry Stinas :(

Hugs and prayers for you.

<3C


----------



## Stinas

Deb - Im not sure exactly. We just briefly went over whats next and to tell you the honest truth, I was not fully paying attention because I was holding back the tears and anger. 
I will know more once I call with CD1 of my next period. 
I have decided to wait until the second one. I need a little break from all of this.


----------



## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry Stinas. Lots of hugs.

A quick update, I am in the trailer camping for the last time before I go back teaching on Monday. The clinic called to say that DH is Hep C NEGATIVE!! I cried when I found out. AF never did come after I stopped the pill, so now I have to wait for it to finally come and then start the pill all over again. I don't care, I am so glad we can move forward again.


----------



## MoBaby

Yippie cm!! Bout time for good news!!! :)


----------



## rdleela

Yea, Becky! Great news - and you got the good news quicker than you thought, right?! :) Best of luck moving forward!


----------



## WANBMUM

CM!!! Brilliant, that is amazing news! I hope back being on the pill this time is easier for you, did you ask about switching pills to see if that helps?


----------



## Stinas

CM - CONGRATS!! Thats AMAZING news!!!!! Yay!!!!!


----------



## wibble wobble

Canadian Maple brilliant news that you can get on with things again... it must be such a relief that the result came back negative. Good luck for your cycle x


----------



## wibble wobble

Stinas said:


> hope everyone is doing well!
> Quick crummy update on me....BFN after transferring 2 (5aa & stage 1 blast) embryos. Planning on FET mid oct.
> 
> For those of you who did FET....is it better to wait for second period or go on BCP's this coming period? Doc gave me these options and I dont know which to take.

Sorry to hear you got a bfn :hugs::hugs:


----------



## raelynn

CM - That is great news!

Heading to the dr tomorrow for baseline blood/ultrasound and then starting Clomid Sunday. I'm starting to get excited again!


----------



## cbergs

CM- YES! good news! Love it!

Rae- So happy that you're getting excited again! Time heals all wounds, and just know that everything is going to turn out great in the end. 

Good luck to all!

Me...I'm just waiting for school to start and then it's the countdown to the 7th. (Day of mTESE for DH...)

<3C


----------



## Arimas

Hi Ladies,

So the RE says that instead of using the frozen sperm vials from the original TESE (last October) we should do a fresh MESA for the next IVF cycle. That gives me a bad vibe. Does that mean she things the sperm they have is gonna not work? I feel like its already over before it has begun. 
If nothing happens this time around then I think we will go to another clinic. 
Sending good vibes to everyone on this thread, take care ladies


----------



## Stinas

Arimas - what is a fresh MESA?


----------



## tigerlily1975

Stinas, I'm so sorry about the BFN.

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## Stinas

Tiger - Thank you! How are you doing?


----------



## Arimas

Stinas said:


> Arimas - what is a fresh MESA?

Hey Stinas,

So sorry to hear about ur BFN :hugs: 

The MESA=Microsurgical Epididymis Sperm Aspiration is when they extract the sperm from the epididymis gland (where mature sperm are) compared to the TESA=Testicular Sperm Extraction, taking the sperm out of the testicles which would be sperm tissue (immature sperm)-which is what we used for IVF#1 and will be using for IVF#2

I have read (on google) that many people are successful with either type of sperm but i got the feeling from my RE that she would like DH to do a MESA so that the sperm is mature compared to the ones we have in the vial. 

I think we are just gonna do this cycle using what we have and if it is a BFN then I think we are gonna have DH do the MESA and change our RE


----------



## deafgal01

Deb- if you can, please update the front of the page for me.

My tests all came back clear but not as lucky for DH- 0 count in SA 3 times so far by urologist. DH tried Clomiphene Citrate along with Anastrozole. DH's Biopsy results revealed no blockage but not good quality sperms in testes July 23, 2012. Now moving on to next step of the process- first initial appt scheduled for Sept. 13 with a fertility clinic to see how they can help us get pregnant with donor sperm.


----------



## Stinas

Arimas - Thanks for the info! I didnt know about that! I will be looking into it. We still have some sperm left, so if that vial does not work I will be interested in doing a MESA instead of another TESE.


----------



## Arimas

deafgal01- sorry to hear about dh sperm quality, but i am happy that you are looking into donor sperm. That appointment is just around the corner, take some time to relax with dh before ya'll get on another emotional roller coaster.:hugs:

stinas-glad that the info is helpful, there is so much to take in sometimes it can be overwhelming but do some research and ask the urologist to look into that procedure for your dh also. Look into both options and see where they can get the best sperm from for you to use.


----------



## deafgal01

Thanks! I will try to relax with dh before the appt.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Stinas said:


> Tiger - Thank you! How are you doing?

Thanks for asking, darling. I've been in a bit of a funk after last week. I was over the moon after the retrieval, but I'm just so deflated after they failed to fertilise. Not sure what we're going to do next, I think we'll have a good talk after we see the Consultant. Husband still not on board with using a donor, so this could be the end of the road if they don't think any sperm retrieved will be viable. 

Gosh, it's really not long till your FET cycle, I will be keeping everything crossed for you!

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## MoBaby

Hey! I'm starting round 3 now... Follicle count today = 23! I'm hoping this new protocol helps them grow nicely and we get 20-25 mature follicles :) start microdose lupron tomorrow am and gonal f Friday and menopur Monday!! Yay! Clinic says they have enough back up frozen sperm we didn't have to use last cycle for icsi! But hoping he produces just enough fresh sperm.. If we can get 100 swimmers I will be happy!!


----------



## Arimas

Tigerlily1975- sorry to hear about none fertalizing, i hope you have a good session with your consultant. Maybe DH will consider using donor after your talk. good luck *HUG*

MoBaby-23 is a great follicle count! Glad you have enough frozen sperm to use and hope DH can produce the fresh as well. 

take care everyone


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi everyone. :)

DeafGal- That appointment will be here before you know it! They do more infectious disease screening on you when you use a donor, more than with IVF. I was shocked at their long list of diseases they look for.

Arimas- I hope it works and you don't have to start all over again. 

Tigerlilly- I'm so sorry to hear what's going on. It's so sad and scary to think you've hit the end of the road or are close. I've been there twice, once when DH refused donor sperm and then when the clinic thought we DH had Hep C. I really hope there is more sperm found.

MoBaby- I have my fingers crossed for you. It sounds promising for you! 

AFM- DH and I are still relishing in the good news about the negative Hep C test. I still can't believe it. DH is going for one last SA since he found out his testosterone test in June was within normal limits. He got a 12. He had a 4.2 in January. The range is 10-50 so it's still low but normal. I don't expect anything to show up on the SA, but it was something we wanted to get looked at. AF is still missing from when I stopped the pill 2 1/2 weeks ago.


----------



## rdleela

Tigerlily1975, sorry to hear about your sperm issues, talk about a rollercoaster ride, hope you are dealing as well as you can!

MoBaby and Arimas, best of luck!

Becky and Deafgal, appts and tests! Hope all turns out well!

AFM, 30 days till DH's surgery! Woo hoo! We are vacationing in Hawaii the week before his surgery, so that's really going to help us relax and the time fly by! (We leave for vacation in only 18 days!) 

Then the emotional rollercoaster of SA's and TTC start again...this should be a crazy winter, that's for sure...


----------



## Arimas

CanadianMaple-Thats great news about the negative Hep C. All these tests can be so overwhelming. You never know what they are gonna test and what results might pop up. Glad you are done with that hurdle. Having another SA is great, just to see the results, there is no harm in that. AF can be annoying not showing up. Do some light exercise and get some blood flowing so that things can move along. Take care

rdleela- I would love to join you in Hawaii LoL That is the best plan ever. Good luck with the surgery. I hope everything works out. 

take care everyone


----------



## Stinas

Tiger - Would he do another TESE? Maybe be put on clomid for a few months first? Maybe that can help the quality? We have decided if the FET does not work, we will go do another fresh with whatever sperm we have left, then if that does not work, we will do the clomid and another TESE. Then if all fails, we will probably go the donor route. Hopefully it does not go that far, but if it does, it is what it is. 
I understand how upsetting it is. I know my FET is right around the corner. AF is still lingering, only had a heavy flow for two days and have been spotting ever since...weird. Once the next AF comes I will be ready for the FET....hoping it survives the thaw. 

MoBaby - I hope this is it for you!!!

Canadian - Thats such good news! I would do another SA too, just for a piece of mind.

rdleela - Yay!!


----------



## BrandyRelax

Not that I've been very active, but I just wanted to update... finally got the results from the Fertility clinic, and basically other than high LH and FSH (16 and 39, although, can't remember which is which), DH is fine... no high or low testosterone, scrotal ultrasound looks "normal" and all genetic and disease testing came back clear, he's just not producing no sperm. So off to the Urologist/endocrinologist next and see what they say. The doctor was really pushing donor sperm, and I'm not sure if there is something she sees that she didn't say that there is really no hope, or if she just doesn't deal with it much. She suggested he start on some folic acid and CoQ10, so we went and bought some at the drug store (goodness, that was expensive!!), but it's worth a try... anything is better than zero sperm!

The funny part about this whole thing is that other than having a TSH level of 2.52 (and they like it to be 2.5 or lower), I seem fine. I was totally confident that it was me that had the problems and that my hubby was fine - it's funny how things work out.

The one part that is hard is that when I'm upset, it makes my hubby feel bad. It's not that I'm mad at him or upset with him at all, just upset with the situation, so it's hard to deal with when I know when I'm upset, it upsets him... kinda a circular thing I guess, but hopefully he gets it.


----------



## whlisa19

deafgal01 said:


> I wish I knew of what to say or do to help you but I haven't been in that situation. Since there's sperms, you're still in luck so don't give up. .

good luck. my husband has very low sperms count that we recently found out about. after TTC for over 2 years now :nope: good luck with your situation. we are going to have a donor :spermy: go in me so we can start our family :dust:


----------



## Arimas

BrandyRelax said:


> Not that I've been very active, but I just wanted to update... finally got the results from the Fertility clinic, and basically other than high LH and FSH (16 and 39, although, can't remember which is which), DH is fine... no high or low testosterone, scrotal ultrasound looks "normal" and all genetic and disease testing came back clear, he's just not producing no sperm. So off to the Urologist/endocrinologist next and see what they say. The doctor was really pushing donor sperm, and I'm not sure if there is something she sees that she didn't say that there is really no hope, or if she just doesn't deal with it much. She suggested he start on some folic acid and CoQ10, so we went and bought some at the drug store (goodness, that was expensive!!), but it's worth a try... anything is better than zero sperm!
> 
> The funny part about this whole thing is that other than having a TSH level of 2.52 (and they like it to be 2.5 or lower), I seem fine. I was totally confident that it was me that had the problems and that my hubby was fine - it's funny how things work out.
> 
> The one part that is hard is that when I'm upset, it makes my hubby feel bad. It's not that I'm mad at him or upset with him at all, just upset with the situation, so it's hard to deal with when I know when I'm upset, it upsets him... kinda a circular thing I guess, but hopefully he gets it.

Glad to hear that all his tests came back fine. :thumbup: Are they going to do a testicular biopsy to find sperm there? Did they test his urine to see if he has retrograde ejaculation? take care:hugs:


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## Stinas

BrandyRelax - It is funny how things work out. I always thought it was me too....turns out im fine and its him also. All his tests came back completely normal...nothing is high or low. We expected to find tons of sperm during the TESE but ended up finding just a couple. Doc thinks its a production problem. 
Are you going to do a Biopsy/TESE?


----------



## MoBaby

Hey guys! Just wanted to update! I am currently cycle day 8 on microdose lupron flare.... I have just done my 6th injection of stimms. I had an ultrasound today after taking 5 injections of Gonal F and 2 injections of Menopur (I'm on 225 gonal f and 150 menopur; had 3 days of gonal f 300 alone)... I have 23 follicles (13L/10R), same as baseline. All of them measure about 8.9mm with one measuring around 11mmx8.9mm or something. Lining of 7.2mm. Everything looks on track. My E2 level was low on monday but the clinic said it was a nice increase (it was more than 4x baseline). They didnt adjust my meds so I assume everything is progresesing well. I do have another scan/labs on Friday so I am hoping my follicles are 12mm or larger by then. I think I will trigger Monday based on my last 2 cycles and the current growth of the follicles. 

Does this sound okay for where I am at in my cycle?? I feel like I've never done this before!!!

Brandy: glad all DH test came back normal. That sounds like the same situation with my DH. He usually has very few sperm in his sample with sometimes a count of 500,000. The urologist was pushing for a biopsy but we didnt like him all that much and decided to do icsi with the few in his sample and have some frozen for backup. It has worked this far. My dr only talked about DS once and that was after 2 rounds of IVF and it was just a brief blurb of DS would be a cheaper option and you could do IUI. And that was that. No mention of it ever again. I hope the urologist has a solution for you guys. I totally understand about what you are saying about when you are in a bad mood, DH feels bad. Thats how it is here to! Good luck with your next steps!!

whlisa19: Sounds like you guys are decided on using donor sperm. You guys could try IVF with ICSI before moving to donor since he does have some sperm. Have you considered that? I'm sure you have :) 

Stinas: How are you?


----------



## deafgal01

whlisa- :dust: Good luck!

Mo- no idea... :shrug: Hope it works out for you!


----------



## Stinas

Mo - I hope this is your cycle!!! It sounds good to me, but I have only done one IVF cycle, so im not a pro lol I only did Gonal F and Menopur too. I dont remember my lining numbers or any for that matter. 
I am doing good. Hoping AF comes soon so I can do this FET and praying it survives the thaw. Besides that, been a bit moody....nothing else really. 
Are you getting excited for this cycle?


----------



## MoBaby

Yes I am excited but for some reason every number, ultrasound, etc is making me anxious. I should just trust they know what they are doing! I just expected this cycle to be faster and be on stimms less days. But, if I have to be on stimms for the rest of the month I would do it! So hopefully by Monday I am ready to trigger. Who knows. LOL. But I am excited to be getting close and cant wait to get to ER!! I hope all my follies stay around :) I found last cycle what every I had at this stage is what I ended up with so I am hoping!!!


----------



## whlisa19

deafgal01 said:


> whlisa- :dust: Good luck!

Thanks :hugs: Donor is coming over tonight and we are going to do a couple ejaculations into me. He says he may be able to do 3 so I hope he can :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Husband is going to be there, so hopefully that won't make him nervous :shrug:


----------



## Stinas

MoBaby - Im excited for you!!! I found this part to be easy....I got nervous after ET because you have already done everything you could, the waiting is the worst.


----------



## Soili

whlisa19 said:


> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> whlisa- :dust: Good luck!
> 
> Thanks :hugs: Donor is coming over tonight and we are going to do a couple ejaculations into me. He says he may be able to do 3 so I hope he can :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Husband is going to be there, so hopefully that won't make him nervous :shrug:Click to expand...

What made you choose to have actual intercourse with the donor? It's none of my business how other families function, but seeing how there's virtually no advantages over the softcup or syringe methods, I'm curious why would someone choose to make things potentially a lot more awkward... Not to mention, I'm questioning the integrity of the donor a lot here... 

Perhaps it's cultural thing??


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## deafgal01

Soili- Thanks for asking the obvious question I had on my mind. I would not ever do that to my dh. I rather have a dr shoot it up me thru a tube or the old fashioned fun turkey baster with my dh using donor sperms than to actually have intercourse with someone else but that's me. :shrug:


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## BrandyRelax

Arimas - yes, I think we'd do a TESE (or whatever version of it the doctor wants to do), but we'll see what he says. I don't know if they tested urine after the SA, I know they tested it before, but didn't ask about after, I'll ask him, because I think he has low volume of semen, so that might be something to look at. 

Stinas - Our fertility clinic suggested that the field is starting to think lack of production/testicular failure is an auto-immune disease, and given my DH's mother has the WORST Rhumatoid Arthritis, and my DH seems to never get sick (meaning he's got a super immune system), it wouldn't surprise me at all! Yes, we'll probably do a TESE, or whatever the Urologist suggests. I'd rather know that we tried all options before deciding not to have kids than to have given up too early (provided there is no health risk to DH for doing all of this!). I don't want to lose him in the process of trying to start a family! When they do the TESE, can they do it in advance so that if they don't find sperm, I don't have to go through the whole ET process?

MoBaby - You're so lucky that your DH has some sperm coming out!! I haven't done much research on IVF rounds, but I hope everything continues to go well!


----------



## whlisa19

Soili said:


> whlisa19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> whlisa- :dust: Good luck!
> 
> Thanks :hugs: Donor is coming over tonight and we are going to do a couple ejaculations into me. He says he may be able to do 3 so I hope he can :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Husband is going to be there, so hopefully that won't make him nervous :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> What made you choose to have actual intercourse with the donor? It's none of my business how other families function, but seeing how there's virtually no advantages over the softcup or syringe methods, I'm curious why would someone choose to make things potentially a lot more awkward... Not to mention, I'm questioning the integrity of the donor a lot here...
> 
> Perhaps it's cultural thing??Click to expand...

When we learned that my husband had low sperms count, we felt such a loss as we had been TTC for such a long time!! The fertility clinic gave us information on options but "medical" never seemed right and he was the one who brought up NI as best, but I wasn't sure. :wacko:

:coffee: We read a lot of things about emotional and medical considerations. Things like lower chance of birth defects, sperm samples obtained via sexual intercourse contain more sperm and fresh sperms can live 7 days in the female reproductive tract waiting to fertilize an egg. And a direct ejaculation also can help since male scent boosts women's hormone levels and orgasms in females can help fertilization through the uptake of sperm to the uterus and increase fertility.

I was mostly worried about for my husband :hugs: even though he seemed to be enthusiastic about the idea. So we put off our decision and tried supplements but it never got my husbands counts up and we talked again about getting a donor to help us start our family. We agreed that for us it was the best option.

My calendar starts next tuesday so we are starting with donor inseminations for as much as he can give us :spermy::spermy::spermy: now thru my anticipated ovulation. Luckily he lives in the area and so logistics are easy to coordinate so that my husband can be there. Husband is very supportive :happydance:


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## MoBaby

I'm glad you brought this up soili. I disagree with actual relations with the donor as using ejaculate and a syringe would be just as effective. I'd also be concerned With the integrity /intentions of the donor. I couldn't bring myself to have relations with someone other than my dh even for this reason. Your dh may be on board now but once the action is completed he may not feel so great. 

Personally I would try the syringe method first. I would feel like a cheater having relations with another man. I know you and dh have discussed this but it seems a bit awkward to me. Have you guys came to some sort of agreement over paternity and such? It seems like if you both have agreed to have sexual relations and you get pregnant then the donor could request paternity, etc and argue its his child since you had consentual sex. I hope you have all the legalities covered and have spoken to an attorney and had papers drawn up. Good luck though with your decision!


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## MrsC8776

:hi: I just wanted to stop in and say hi to everyone and wish you all the luck in the world. 

MoBaby I feel the exact same way about it as you do. Picking a donor and going that route was hard enough. I wouldn't have been able to do it any other way than in a dr's office. We wouldn't even cross the bridge of doing it at home. It does cost more in an office but I know for us it is the only way to have it done. The legal part would scare me also. It is already hard enough for DH to know that biologically the children will not be his. Having the scare that someone could take his children from him would be to much to handle. Also there is no way I would be able to BD while my DH watches. Theres just so many other ways to use donor sperm at home than intercourse. 

To each their own though. What ever works in one persons relationship may not work in another. Whlisa with everything said I do wish you luck. Like MoBaby mentioned I hope all the legal stuff is taken care of before anything happens.


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## whlisa19

MrsC8776 said:


> :hi: I just wanted to stop in and say hi to everyone and wish you all the luck in the world.
> 
> MoBaby I feel the exact same way about it as you do. Picking a donor and going that route was hard enough. I wouldn't have been able to do it any other way than in a dr's office. We wouldn't even cross the bridge of doing it at home. It does cost more in an office but I know for us it is the only way to have it done. The legal part would scare me also. It is already hard enough for DH to know that biologically the children will not be his. Having the scare that someone could take his children from him would be to much to handle. Also there is no way I would be able to BD while my DH watches. Theres just so many other ways to use donor sperm at home than intercourse.
> 
> To each their own though. What ever works in one persons relationship may not work in another. Whlisa with everything said I do wish you luck. Like MoBaby mentioned I hope all the legal stuff is taken care of before anything happens.

Thanks! We looked into it and there was no difference in legal risks between AI and NI so like others using a donor we did our best to screen. Our first times went well and more tonight. I'm just so excited to be starting a family - hopefully very soon!!


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## deafgal01

:dust: Hope that works out... Let it bring a bfp for your family!


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## Stinas

Interesting stuff going on in here today lol

Brandy - Yes! DH had his TESE done before I started the whole IVF process. You just need to make sure your Urologist can work with whatever fertility clinic you choose, so hoping they do find sperm they can freeze them for you. Thats what we did. Plus a urologist may find a couple sperm, but an embryologist can find more in the tissue they remove, which is good for IVF. I didnt know this. 

Mobaby - I totally agree, but what may work for us might not for others. 

whlisa - I wish you the best of luck!!


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## BrandyRelax

Stinas said:


> Interesting stuff going on in here today lol
> 
> Brandy - Yes! DH had his TESE done before I started the whole IVF process. You just need to make sure your Urologist can work with whatever fertility clinic you choose, so hoping they do find sperm they can freeze them for you. Thats what we did. Plus a urologist may find a couple sperm, but an embryologist can find more in the tissue they remove, which is good for IVF. I didnt know this.
> 
> Mobaby - I totally agree, but what may work for us might not for others.
> 
> whlisa - I wish you the best of luck!!

Thanks! Our referral to the Urologist is from the doctor at the fertility clinic, and she mentioned that there is good coordination between the two. I don't know if there is an embryologist involved, but will definitely ask the question of what they can do with the TESE or whatever procedure they recommend. I just hope they can find something. I'm not in objection to paying a ton of money for ICSI and IVF (who needs to retire anyways?!:winkwink:), I just want to know there is a chance.


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## cbergs

Well, today was the day that I found out that I will NEVER be able to have a biological child with my husband. Did mTESE...not a single sperm in all the tissue from both testicles. OH, and my SIL had her baby today. 

Not even thinking about other options right now...need to heal from this. Prob won't be back on until I have good news to share.

Hoping all your luck is far better than mine.

Take care.


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## whlisa19

I'm so sad to hear of your disappointing test results. Hopefully you two can find what is right for your relationship and possible family!


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## deafgal01

Oh cbergs. :hugs: It's never easy. If it's one thing it's another. :hugs:


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## Deb111

Cbergs - im so sorry. Have they sent any tissue away to be looked at in more detail?

Im sorry ive been awol lately and i feel bad ive been neglecting you all. Ive been dealing with a couple of things that i felt were insensitive to bring into this thread. Anyway i will have a good catch up later x x


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## snd80

So sorry cbergs! Hope time will help heal you! :hugs:


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## SunUp

Sorry Cbergs. Please know you are not alone.


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## MoBaby

Cbergs I'm sooo sorry :( take as much time off as needed. Understandable :hugs:


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## CanadianMaple

cbergs- I am so sorry. It takes a fair bit of time to digest the news and then start looking at other options. Azoo is not fair. :(


----------



## cbergs

Thanks guys...I'm no longer part of a "newbie-just-been-diagnosed" couple. Now it's real...now we know. I want to use donor sperm...don't think DH is on board yet. Will work on this over the next month. :( This diagnosis is RIDICULOUS, and so hurtful. I feel like someone I love just passed away. :cry:


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## whlisa19

Good luck. So sad but hubby and I are bonding thru the donor process. Prayers for you 2


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Cbergs, it is a really tough time right now for the two of you. :hugs: Hopefully over the next month or so, he will come to terms with that and decide to let you experience being pregnant thru use of donor sperms. I will be praying for the two of you as you go thru this together. :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

cbergs- It took my husband a few months to really be ready for donor sperm. Once he knew that the urologist wasn't optimistic about finding sperm and couldn't offer any other encouragement, he was able to process it once the grieving was done. He was somewhat prepared for that, but it still knocked him down. I still get scared about using a donor, but know that we will get the child we were supposed to get and while it's not what we originally had planned, it is our reality. We put a positive spin on it, it's like a 1/2 adoption, but we pick the birth parents, there is no worry about them changing their mind, and the gestation is controlled. When DH looked at it that way, he had a much easier time with it. 

It really takes time. Talking to the IF psych helped too.

AFM- We bought our donor sperm on Friday, and I had a few moments of sadness. While I know it's the route we want to take, it was really difficult to hit that send button to confirm everything with the sperm bank. She actually gave us the weekend to process it all because I think she sensed that I was hesitating.

DH is going to do one last SA on Wednesday since his testosterone levels were in the normal range, just so we know that nothing has changed with the azoo. He still doesn't want to consider mTESE or a TESA. We would have waited for those results, but we know they are probably the same and those two vials of the donor we wanted were all that was left. 

AF had been MIA since July, and it has been bugging me that we finally got cleared from Hep C scare and couldn't move on. I'm going to start the pill on Wednesday and take it for 21 days. After that, we'll start the IUI. So, that will be around mid-October.


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## MoBaby

Yay cm! To finally have a plan in place! Sooo glad you are finally w/ a plan after all your set backs.


----------



## raelynn

CM - So glad you are moving forward! Wishing you the best of luck! I was the same way when ordering our donor sperm. It is just sad when it becomes so real. Our clinic has been really supportive though and when we went in for the IUI today they even told us we should continue to BD as well on the off chance that hubby's sperm make it through. I like that idea knowing that we're still giving it a chance to be hubby's child even though it would be a complete miracle if that were the case.


----------



## Stinas

Brandy - Thats good that they work together. All the IVF centers have embryologists....they are the ones that make the embryos and all the good stuff. Its frustrating paying for all of this stuff, but its worth it knowing you did everything to achieve having a baby. 

cbergs - Im sooo sorry. I hope you heal soon! We are all here for you anytime, you are not alone! I think the men take more time for donor sperm to sink in. Just give him time to heal....it will probably take a bit longer than you, but it will happen. 

snd - How are you?!

Deb - I hope everything is ok! 

CM - Im glad everything is moving along for you!


----------



## MoBaby

I trigger tonight! Yay! Er wednesday at 8am!


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## whlisa19

Good luck!!


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## deafgal01

:dust: good luck mo!


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## Stinas

Mobaby - Yay good luck!


----------



## momofadane

Hello ladies, 
I have been stalking this thread for a few weeks, and reading everything you have been going through! I don't know If newbies are allowed to join in, but I would love the support :)

My husband and I have not been TTC for nearly as long as many of you, about 7 months. My husband has two kids from a past marriage, and I have not had any. From what I can tell Im pretty much healthy. However by DH has low testosterone and has been on Testoerone Replacement Therapy for 5 years. Thanks to this forum and other research I discovered TRT is basically a male birth control and lowers sperm count down to zero. Many times not reversible. He has his first SA in two weeks, I am 99.9% positive it will be zero and I am worried it will never increase. In three weeks he will be seeing a urologist that specializes in male infertility to let us know our options. 

I was debating on writing on here because we have not gotten a for sure zero sperm, but from the research its basically not possible to have any. Its nice to know there are people in the same boat as me (not that I wish any of you were, but you know what I mean:)


----------



## Deb111

Welcome momofadane :flower:

Of course you are more tham welcome - although, it would be lovely if your results meant you didn't have to stick around! I hope you get some answers, but from what I've read, if it's ok medically, I would say he will needs to get off the TRT - but of course, that is a decision to be made with professionals. I don't know if the body will start producing sperm if he comes off it temporarily but I wish you all the best and please keep us posted xx


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Welcome momofadane. Hope the results are good but even if it's not, you're in the right place for support. :hugs:


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## Arimas

Welcome momofadane :flower:


----------



## MoBaby

Hey! Back from ec with 22 eggs! Report tomorrow. DH had just enough for fertilization so that's great! Last time they called to tell me if they used fresh or frozen; I don't think they will this time so just have to wait until tomorrow!
Welcome momofdane. I hope your test come back okay! We are here for support anyway needed :)


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## Deb111

Great news mobaby. Keeping everything crossed for great fertilisation x x


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## Stinas

momofadane - Welcome and I hope his SA comes back with tons of sperm!!!

MoBaby - YAYYYYY!!! Thats a ton of eggs!!!


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## momofadane

Thanks everyone! I will keep you posted! Im trying to be hopeful but its difficult when the odds are against you!

Congrats MoBaby!!! Excited to hear how everything goes!


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## MoBaby

Hey guys here is my report: 19 eggs mature, 15 fertilized, 12 normal fertilization. I feel sad for the 4 that didn't fertilize :( last 2 cycles all have fertilized. Oh well, I'm happy with that. Now I pray they all grow! :) I will get a call tomorrow!


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## deafgal01

Grow eggies GROW!!!!!!!!! Sorry that 4 didn't fertilized but 15 is a good number. :thumbup:


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## wibble wobble

Congrats on your 15 embies Mobaby


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## Stinas

Mobaby - 15 is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!! YAYYY!!!!! Grow embies grow!!!!!!


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## SunUp

Hi everyone!
Thought I'd poke around a little bit today, and am trying to catch up! Sorry for being a crap stalker / member but I'm trying:kiss:

Mo- Thats great! Hope things keep going well!

Deb - you are SO CLOSE!!!:happydance:

Afm, stimming is going well (so they say!) my Sono yesterday showed 14 on the right and not sure how many on the left! I have a 9mm on one side already and an 11mm on the other. I am continuing on menopur/gonal f each night... go back for monitoring Sunday. Hoping that things keep going well:flower:. I am starting to get excited again!!! Yay for something hopeful. I also talked to DH about wanted to put 2 embies in (if we have enough). I'll explain more in my journal, not trying to take up a bunch of room here.

Hoping everyone has a wonderful week!


----------



## Stinas

Sunup - Sounds like your right on track! I felt like the stimming process flies by, but after ET takes FOREVER! Im sure the doc will tell you whats best when it comes to how many to transfer. My doc originally told me due to my age(28) and the fact that its a male factor not female, one is suggested to transfer, BUT...she also said if we only have 2-3 embryos, we are better off transferring two, ultimately it was up to us.....we transfered two. Dont stress out about the rating of the embryos either...TOTALLY not worth it. I had one ok and one perfect hatching embryo and it didnt work.....so dont stress......once they are in, you did all you can do. Hope for the best! I am routing for you!


----------



## silverbell

Hey everybody :wave:

Long time, no speak. I've been wallowing in my own journal :blush:

Lots of IVF stuff going on lately - good luck to you all, as well as to those of you doing IUI and awaiting the results/operation dates for retrievals. :dust: I think of you guys always. :hugs:


----------



## MoBaby

Transfer complete!! 2 beautiful blasts!!! We have 5 morulas cooking so may turn into some frosties...will get update tomorrow.

Also they used dh fresh sperm!!!! No frozen required!!! The embryologists said she has to really search around but had plenty good ones from his sample :) Yay! Sooo see girls anything is possible!! If there are a few there in the sa then you can do icsi without the biopsy... Our doctors were doubtful but we kept our faith and believed :) now my 9 day wait for beta!!!!


----------



## Stinas

Mobaby - Thats great news!!! Im sooo excited for you!


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: Mo that is awesome news!!!


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## silverbell

What wonderful news, MoBaby. Very pleased to hear this and keeping everything crossed for your sticky :bfp:


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## momofadane

Thats wonderful Mobaby!! I cant wait to see how things go!!!!!


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## BettiS

Hi girls!

Well I'm so glad I found this thread, been searching all over the net for info but it's all so vague! Was hoping you girls would be able to answer some of my questions. Forgive me, unfortunately I only briefly scanned through the first few pages of the thread - it's SOOO long! But here's my story:

Today 2 weeks ago DH went for an SA and they found NO sperm in his sample. As far as I can tell from the report, they "spinned" some of it and still couldn't find anything. The semen was alkaline and there was fructose present, the amount of semen ejaculated was within the normal range. The sample was submitted 2 days after our last intercourse and it was apparently tested 90 minutes after the emission. Everything was fine, except that there was 0 sperm.

We have been together for 10 (almost 11) years and married almost 4 (I'm 27 and he's almost 29). We only started TTC at the end of January this year, but I immediately intuitively felt that something was wrong somewhere. So I went for a pelvic exam and ultrasound (end July) and because I'm a bit overweight since very recently, I also had some bloodwork done to test for various things that could potentially influence my fertility. All came back normal, save for a very slight degree of insulin resistance (but NOT PCOS). After knowing this, we were confident that DH's SA wasn't going to be coming back too good, but we didn't expect THIS!

DH had 2 operations as a child to correct retractile testes and also had an emergency operation for a testicular torsion when he was little. I'm not too sure how long his testes were retracted for, so I can't say if that could be a factor. However, I do suspect that these operations may have caused an obstruction leading to the azoospermia. I also suspect that he might have a varicocele since he has quite a big blue vein visible in those parts. We are seeing a urologist about the matter on October 15th.

My question:

Do you also think that the above surgeries could have caused the problem? Have any of your DHs experienced post-surgery fertility problems?

Also:

DH has smallish firm testes (I have - to my nausea - had to surf the net and look at pics - ugh - to compare, and his definitely aren't big). I am KILLING myself worrying that these might be cause for concern since I've read that it can be a sign of Klinefelter's syndrome, which is basically a death sentence to our dreams of having a biological family. He does not have ANY other signs of this syndrome except maybe for his testes and the infertility. He has a cousin with unexplained infertility (don't know if it's similar to DH's case; I have never met the cousin). Do you guys think it's possible he has Klinefelter's? I sure hope not!

I was so pleased to read about some BFP's! It really gives me a glimmer of hope!


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## silverbell

Hi BettiS

I'm so sorry you find yourself here.

There are indeed a few other ladies on this thread that have husbands who had surgery in their younger years that caused the azoospermia and I'm sure they'll be along to post their experiences soon.

I also just wanted to say that my husband has Klinefelter's and although we weren't lucky, there are cases of men with Klinefelter's having sperm retrieved via biopsy (we were told there was a 5% chance in men with KS). So it's isn't necessarily the end of your plans of a biological family together, though of course I can understand that a 5% chance is pretty shocking. We're now using donor sperm to try to get the family we've always wanted.

I'm not sure where you live, but I would get to your doctor prior to the October appointment and see if they will arrange genetic blood tests for your DH to exclude Klinefelter's and other genetic issues that could have caused the azoospermia. The tests required are karyotype (for KS), Y-microdeletions and Cystic Fibrosis carrier. The results can take a good couple of weeks to come through. You may need to do some investigations about where these tests are done, as for us it wasn't a local hospital and so I had to tell my local hospital where to send the bloods for analysis. Your DH should also have his Testosterone and FSH checked by a blood test (plus possibly LH and prolactin). Again, hopefully this is something the doctor can sort for you.

I hope you get lots of answers at your appointment in October. :hugs:


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## MoBaby

hi BettyS: everything silverbell said. My DH had operations for the same things when he was a child and he was diagnosed with azo by the urologist.... we were devastated... the urologist did all the test silver was talking about and found nothing. Only explination was the surgeries. The urologist said that wasnt it and he needed a biopsy to extract sperm and it would cost all this money. We refused to believe this and asked for a repeat SA. This showed some sperm and we were thrilled (it was only a few, but still there were some!!). So we decided that we were not going to do the biopsy and we went with IVF with ICSI... I wont go into all the details now but I recommend a repeat SA and having the test silver talks about. They can also do a scrotal ultrasound which can check for varicocele and may see a blockage. My DH does not have klinefelters or anything genetically wrong with him. Karotype is normal male. Our urologist refused to do any futher testing for us except the biopsy. I think once you see the urologist you will get some more answers. Sorry you have to deal with this :(


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## snd80

Morning girls! Sorry I have been away for a while... just don't feel like I fit in much anywhere at the moment as I am at a stand still for right now. But I have been lurking and cheering you all on silently!!! :flower:

Firstly, I want to say welcome to the new girls, but am SO sorry to see you here! This is not a "club" any of us want to be a member of, but it is what it is and we are all here for you whenever! :hugs:

:dust: to those in the 2WW and those fixing to get started again!!!

AFM- Since my last failed IUI, I decided to take some time off to figure out my next move and try to loose some more weight, only to piss around for the last two months and not do squat! So, for the past 2 weeks, I have finally gotten back in the gym! :bodyb: 1 lb. down, a cazillion more to go! 

After some soul searching, I decided to bite the bullet and go for IVF this last round, only to find out my clinic's IVF financing program decided to quit financing fertility procedures 2 months ago!!!!! :brat: My freakin' luck!!!!!! So they are trying to find another company to hook up with. I gave the girl a few I had found on the net and told her to get busy!! :haha: Although they would have paid for the procedure, I still have to come outta pocket for the meds, a whopping $3000! I was going to ask my aunt to borrow the money for the meds, and my other aunt suggested now asking her for the whole amount, but I just can't do that! So now I am back to square one! What to do?!! Should I try one last IUI with my last vial, or keep waiting to see if they find another company?! IDK!!!! If I only would have decided to do this sooner...... :nope: If, If, IF!!!

You know what I miss? I miss being niave! l miss having a glimmer of hope in trying the old fashioned way! I miss not knowing anything about azoospermia or that it even existed! I miss being the "old" me!!!! Now I'm this medical junkie with information overload!! I just wish we could all be "normal" like others and get pg without effort!!! Sorry to spazz out and scare any of the new girls, but this is not an easy road for some of us! :cry:

And on a last note, I miss some of the old girls from here... I've been on this thread for a little over a year; so many have moved on and some of us are still here in limbo azoo-hell! Guess I am a little hormonal today! :blush:

:hugs: to all that have made it this far in reading!!!


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## Deb111

Welcome BettiS. Sorry you find yourself here.

I will post more when i'm not on my phone, but just wanted to say that small testicles is not necessarily a sign of ks. It is a sign of some degree of testicular failure, but not necessarily total failure. There are many causes of this failure - ks is just one of many x


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## momofadane

Welcome BettiS- I myself am just learning about all of this so I cant shed much light on the subject. But, did want to welcome you. As rough as this is to go through, its good to know there is support and people dealing with the same thing you are.


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## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Morning girls! Sorry I have been away for a while... just don't feel like I fit in much anywhere at the moment as I am at a stand still for right now. But I have been lurking and cheering you all on silently!!! :flower:
> 
> Firstly, I want to say welcome to the new girls, but am SO sorry to see you here! This is not a "club" any of us want to be a member of, but it is what it is and we are all here for you whenever! :hugs:
> 
> :dust: to those in the 2WW and those fixing to get started again!!!
> 
> AFM- Since my last failed IUI, I decided to take some time off to figure out my next move and try to loose some more weight, only to piss around for the last two months and not do squat! So, for the past 2 weeks, I have finally gotten back in the gym! :bodyb: 1 lb. down, a cazillion more to go!
> 
> After some soul searching, I decided to bite the bullet and go for IVF this last round, only to find out my clinic's IVF financing program decided to quit financing fertility procedures 2 months ago!!!!! :brat: My freakin' luck!!!!!! So they are trying to find another company to hook up with. I gave the girl a few I had found on the net and told her to get busy!! :haha: Although they would have paid for the procedure, I still have to come outta pocket for the meds, a whopping $3000! I was going to ask my aunt to borrow the money for the meds, and my other aunt suggested now asking her for the whole amount, but I just can't do that! So now I am back to square one! What to do?!! Should I try one last IUI with my last vial, or keep waiting to see if they find another company?! IDK!!!! If I only would have decided to do this sooner...... :nope: If, If, IF!!!
> 
> You know what I miss? I miss being niave! l miss having a glimmer of hope in trying the old fashioned way! I miss not knowing anything about azoospermia or that it even existed! I miss being the "old" me!!!! Now I'm this medical junkie with information overload!! I just wish we could all be "normal" like others and get pg without effort!!! Sorry to spazz out and scare any of the new girls, but this is not an easy road for some of us! :cry:
> 
> And on a last note, I miss some of the old girls from here... I've been on this thread for a little over a year; so many have moved on and some of us are still here in limbo azoo-hell! Guess I am a little hormonal today! :blush:
> 
> :hugs: to all that have made it this far in reading!!!

BIG :hugs::hugs: to you, darling.

I can relate to everything you've said, it's the pure frustration and just, plain unfairness of it all. This really is a condition that no-else can understand unless they are actually going through it themselves. 

I'm not around much these days, as we too are at a standstill, BUT always here for you - and all the lovelies who find themselves here.

Much love and :hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## Stinas

Betti - Im soooo sorry to find you here, but you did find an amazing group of ladies with tons of knowledge that can help guide you through this shitty situation. I agree with the ladies when it comes to blood tests. Go right away to your doc and have all those tests done BEFORE going to the urologist. Its soooo much easier and saves you TONS of time! No matter what, the Urologist will make you do them, so better now than later. Azoo is a big waiting game, so knowledge is power and makes things go by a little faster. Once they get all those results back and they determine what it can be, I would do the biopsy and make sure you freeze whatever they find....your husband wont want to do the biopsy again. 


Snd - Hiii!!! Sorry you are in limbo! It sucks. If your aunt offered, I would go for it, if you get the funding that is. 
Your not alone with missing TTC the old fashioned way. I wish I could go back to that mind frame. I was frustrated then after a while too, but nothing like this. We cant change azoo, so we just have to suck it up and move along...make it as best as we can.


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## raelynn

Snd - So sorry you're going through such a tough time right now. I think what you say is where a lot of us wish we were. Wouldn't it be so easy if all of us could just have sex and pop out babies with ease? Hope that you find the best next step for you and congrats on losing weight! I need to get that motivation again!

AFM - Still in 2ww limbo. 1st week went by pretty easily but now I'm starting to get impatient again.


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## deafgal01

Agree with you Snd on the naive feeling and being that uninformed about azoo. Hope you find the funding and I know you will get your bundle of joy sooner or later.:hugs: sending lots of hugs to you!


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## BettiS

Hello everyone

Thank you for all your advice and friendly words, I really appreciate it. 

To preserve my sanity, I HAVE to cling to the idea that it can be fixed and that we won't need to go for IVF or ICSI in the end. See, our medical insurance REFUSES to pay for anything even _remotely_ related to infertility treatment (we had to pay for DH's semen analysis out of our own pocket) and obviously we didn't make any financial provision for this unexpected speed bump. :wacko:

I will phone the doctor's office and ask them whether DH would be required to go for some tests and whether we can do it in advance. Chances are, the doctor will want to see DH first. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

So cheers to another 25 days of waiting and obsessing. :shrug:


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## silverbell

snd80 said:


> You know what I miss? I miss being niave! l miss having a glimmer of hope in trying the old fashioned way! I miss not knowing anything about azoospermia or that it even existed! I miss being the "old" me!!!! Now I'm this medical junkie with information overload!! I just wish we could all be "normal" like others and get pg without effort!!! Sorry to spazz out and scare any of the new girls, but this is not an easy road for some of us! :cry:
> 
> And on a last note, I miss some of the old girls from here... I've been on this thread for a little over a year; so many have moved on and some of us are still here in limbo azoo-hell! Guess I am a little hormonal today! :blush:
> 
> :hugs: to all that have made it this far in reading!!!

This rings so true to how I've been feeling the past couple of months. I too miss the old 'me' and 'us' and how everything didn't revolve around scans and IUI and injections and pessaries. I feel like I've changed and that scares me, but my lovely journal buddies have assured me I haven't and that I'm still the same person deep down, but have just had a lot of crap to deal with. They reckon once we have our child - by whatever means - I'll start to go back to being 'me' more once again and I'm sure that's true.

I think we're all hormonal most of the time. Don't apologise for it :hugs:

I do hope that you get the IVF sorted out or that you come up with a plan while you're waiting in the meantime. Maybe it's worth one more IUI shot whilst you wait? I'm sure you'll both come to a decision soon.


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## MoBaby

BettiS: I feel your pain! We have paid for all 3 rounds of IVF cash out of pocket... We did change DH insurance at one point so it would cover the SA and urologist visit but other than that squat! I hope you get the answers you want soon.


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## Stinas

Betti - I hope you get it all sorted out soon. It sucks when insurance refuses to pay for anything. DH & I paid for everything out of pocket as well....its very stressful to shell out that kind of money when you are already dealing with the stresses of this kind of infertility.


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## silverbell

Just to let you ladies know that my 6th DIUI has failed, so I'm going to be going down the DIVF route now.

Just gotta wait and find out if we're approved for 1 free NHS try before we do anything.


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## Deb111

Im so sorry sb - its just so unfair x x


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## Deb111

Duplicate post


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## MoBaby

Sooo sorry silverbell :(


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## SunUp

Oh no SB... I am so sorry. HUGS!!!

Afm:

While I seemed to get nowhere with IUI, I am doing pretty good with IVF! I have 22 embies still going strong, will have 5 day transfer on 9/27!!

22!!! That is my ALL TIME FAVORITE NUMBER! Always has been!


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## raelynn

SunUp - What a great number! Hoping all goes well and you'll have your BFP soon!

Silverbell - So sorry! Wishing you the very best with IVF.


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## wgreen

My husband was just diagnosed with Azoospermia. I am new to this forum, or any forum for that matter. Just need to talk to someone who has been through this. We see our specialist on October 11 for our initial consultation. I really appreciated your post. Were you successful?


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## deafgal01

wgreen- the front page lists all the successful couples who have been able to conceive and go on to have their dream of having a family of their own (either with husband's sperm or a donor's). Lots of information on the first post in the first page too so that'd be good place to look. Sorry that you're joining the boat but at least you came to the right place for support. :hugs:


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## Arimas

Welcome wgreen! There is a bunch of helpful info and support on this thread. Does ur dh know the cause of the azoo? Did they check his urine after ejaculation for retrograde ejaculation? R u scheduled for a testicular biopsy to look for sperm?

*hugs*


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## Stinas

Silverbell - Im sorry IUI didnt work....I wish you the best with IVF.

Sun - yay!!! When is ER?

wgreen - Im sorry to see you here, but everyone here is super helpful! Good luck!


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## MoBaby

My third ivf=chemical. We have 4 frosties. Called to get an appt to discuss. My official beta is tomorrow but ive watched my hpt go from neg to pos to neg. sigh.


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## momofadane

Welcome wgreen, Sorry to hear about your diagnosis :( There are definetly people on here that will provide the support!!!


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## SunUp

Stinas said:


> Silverbell - Im sorry IUI didnt work....I wish you the best with IVF.
> 
> Sun - yay!!! When is ER?
> 
> wgreen - Im sorry to see you here, but everyone here is super helpful! Good luck!

ER was the 22nd, I have 22 still growing, and ET is the 27, which was how many eggs they initially retrieved. I think I should play the lotto with those numbers!


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## SunUp

Sorry MoB :(


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## raelynn

MoBaby so sorry :hugs::hugs:


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## Stinas

Mo - Im sorry!!!

raelynn - Congrats!!


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## Arimas

So sorry MoBaby *hugs*


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## MoBaby

i will update w/ my beta..im really confused but know the beta will be low... i did another frer tonight and still Faint bfp..no real progression i can see. who knows?


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## Stinas

Mo - I really hope your beta comes back strong!!! I think if your still getting +HPTs is a good thing. Ill be thinking of you tom!


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## Shellvz

Hi ladies,

Today we received the results of husbands sperm analysis. Zero sperm count. Till then, we had never heard such a thing was possible.

Still in a state of shock, starting to research online and have a referral for fertility specialist for further testing.

My husband had surgery on one testicle when he was young to stop it retracting into his groin. He also had mumps as a child. 

Until tests are made I guess it is all just speculation at this stage.

It is a lot to process. I am grateful that we are not alone and there are other couples who understand.


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## MoBaby

third IVF = bust. Beta came in at 5. So disappointing after getting positive hpts, positive digi then watching the digi be negative and the hpts fade. Sigh. I have 4 frozen so we will arrange the FET. I dont f/u with my RE until October 18th but maybe able to start meds prior to the follow-up for that cycle. Otherwise they can't do it until January.


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## tigerlily1975

I'm so sorry, MoBaby :hugs: There is a good record on this thread for FET, so I will be keeping everything crossed for you :hugs:

Hello Shellvz, you've certainly found the right group, you could not find a nicer or more supportive group of ladies. It's a very big shock when you get the result, you really are not expecting it. It's good that you are already planning to see a specialist. If you have a look through the thread you will see that there are a LOT of positive stories and that this is not the end (although right now, you are probably feeling like it is). Take the time as a couple to deal with this and if you need to rant or just want some support, you know where to come :hugs:

Raelynn, that's wonderful news! :hugs:

Big :hi: and :hugs: to all! We've our IVF/ICSI review tomorrow, so feeling quite nervous... 

C xx


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## SunUp

Hope all goes well, Tiger!


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## tigerlily1975

Thanks, Sun :hugs: Good luck with the ET, it's all sounding absolutely perfect!

C xx


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## raelynn

SunUp - Good luck with ET tomorrow!
Tiger - Hope all goes well with your IVF/ICSI review
MoBaby - I'm so sorry. Wishing you all the best with FET

Thanks for all the congrats ladies! We're very excited but still staying cautiously optimistic at this point. I go in for my 2nd beta tomorrow so hopefully everything is progressing well.


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## MoBaby

Raelynn what was your first beta? i missed it! congrats!!! :)


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## raelynn

1st beta @ 15dpo was 166. It was such a relief since last time we started at 14.5


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## MoBaby

that is awesome!! you have a little sticky bean in there!!! :)


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## Arimas

Congratz raelynn!


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## Stinas

Shellvz - Im sorry to see you here as well....i feel like more and more people have been getting diagnosed...its a shame! You came to the perfect place!

Mo - Im sorry the third time was not a charm, but on the bright side, you do have 4 :cold:. Maybe your body will work better with a FET since its much less on the body? I am hoping the same for myself...we can be cycle buddies! 

Tiger - I hope everything works out this cycle for you!!!

Sunup - Good luck tom!!!


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## raelynn

2nd beta 452! So excited!!


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## deafgal01

Rae- congrats :wohoo: Here's to a happy and healthy 9 months (well 8 months to go now for you)!

Tiger- Good luck with your interview/appointment.

Shellvz- Sorry to hear that you are in the same boat as rest of us but like the ladies have already said, welcome to this group. You'll certainly be supported throughout your journey. :hugs: :flower:

Mo- That just blows... There's no words for it but FET :dust: Good luck with that!

Sun- good luck with your ET! Hoping you have a happy and healthy 9 months!


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## Stinas

raelynn - Yayyyy for a sticky bean!!! 

DG - How are you doing?


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## gloomydays

Hi all,

my DH received his results on wednesday and we were told he has Azoospermia, we have been together for 8 years and actively tryiing for about 5 of those. I am so confused and gutted :cry: he has blood taken yesterday to test for testosterone and has to go back today to see his GP for some more info. I am just at a loss and dont really know what to think, what to feel, how to react, what to say :nope: . Thanks for letting me have my little vent :cry: 

xxx


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## Stinas

gloomydays - Im soooo sorry you got this news. It really is a bummer, but once you get an idea of whats causing the azoo, there are a bunch of options for you. I hope its an easy fix, but either way there are sooooo many different stories these ladies can share with you. Feel free to vent anytime!


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## Deb111

Gloomy - I'm so sorry. This comes as such a shock. I will post more later but just wanted to say, your gp will probably be quite negative about your options but trust me, they know very little about azoo. Just makes sure you get a referral to a good urologist and try and get your gp to order fsh, lh, prolactin blood tests too. 

Just so you know it doesnt have to all be doom and gloom, we had this diagnosis 2 and a half years ago and whilst its not been an easy journey, i start my maternity leave as of monday. good luck x x


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## silverbell

I'm so sorry, Mo :hugs: But I am pleased you have some frosties and am hoping the FET will bring you your dream.

Congrats, Rae, I'm not surprised you're so excited. 

Gloomy, I'm so sorry you've had to come here, but you're in the best place for loads of support and advice from an amazing group of ladies. Take time to just support each other and talk things through :hugs:


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## tigerlily1975

Hello lovely ladies, 

I hope you're all on countdown for the weekend. Thanks for the messages, I was so nervous. Do we ever stop worrying about anything with all this? I guess the answer would be NO!

We didn't learn a helluva lot more than we already knew. He was pleased with my response, I was on a lowish dosage (150) all the way through and he said they normally expect 8-10 eggs, so 14 was a good number. The only significant note/concern was that from the frozen sample, only three sperm were moving. They used those along with the best immotile for the 9 mature eggs, so it's a worry that we saw no sign of fertilisation at all. 

This was our only cycle on the NHS, so once we mentioned that we wanted to know if we could try again (privately) he was a lot more helpful. Funny that! We have one frozen vial left, but considering the "poor quality" from the defrost, we don't want to rely on it. He's happy to go in again and this time take as much as they can from DH (during the NHS TESE they stopped after the second incision when they found a few... ??) and once again freezing them. 

I asked about doing a fresh cycle, but he said they don't do that as they can't trust finding them whilst I'm all go with ER and also, the fact that we'd both be in recovery at the same time. I also asked about the difference (RE: results) between a TESE and the MTESE. He said there wasn't any. Hmm.

We also mentioned that we still had no idea as to the cause, the Dr double-checked all DH's results and even the FSH was not that high (8 something and apparently over 10 is classed as high), so we'll never know. 

We aren't going to do anything until the new year (he said I need a three month break between cycles anyhow), so we have plenty of time to think about this and probably contact a few other places.

The worst moment was afterwards, as DH felt so deflated. He keeps apologising and blaming himself and I just wish he wouldn't. These things happen and there's nothing we can do about it and it certainly doesn't change how I feel about him. Husband is also still a definite no-go with donor, so if this doesn't work...

I just wish it didn't have to be this way for any of us.

Big :hugs:

C xx


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## Arimas

Tigerlily, just keep hope its all we can do in our position,i hope next time it works better, glad u have a plan for the next cycle :)


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## SunUp

Aww Tiger, your poor DH! Sending you hugs, hoping that you find the perfect plan in these 3 months so you can have your LO!


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## Deb111

Tiger - if youre going to be going privately, i really would advise at least meeting up with mr ramsay. His clinics are based in windsor and hammersmith and he really is fab! And we felt that way even before the bfp xx


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## tigerlily1975

Thanks lovelies :hugs:



Deb111 said:


> Tiger - if youre going to be going privately, i really would advise at least meeting up with mr ramsay. His clinics are based in windsor and hammersmith and he really is fab! And we felt that way even before the bfp xx

Hi Deb, I was actually going to send you a message regarding Mr Ramsay as you had a fresh cycle, didn't you? Our treatment has been at Queen Charlotte's and Hammersmith (spooky!). I know you have your hands full what with bubba soon to make an appearance and I really didn't want to bother you. I'd definitely like to get his opinion before we make any decisions. At this rate, I think you should get commission each time of of us sees him! 
Hope you and bump are both doing well, 
:hugs:
C xx


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## Deb111

We chose to have a synchronous cycle and so my EC and terrys mTESE were within a couple of hours of each other. Mr ramsay was always pretty confident that he would find 'some' . He did say that a donor back up is recommended but he doesnt insist on it and i can honestly say after terry had said no to that option, we were never even asked again, let alone pushed into it. Mr ramsay was happy to do either a syncronous or non synchronous cycle as he said results dont differ hugely because with a frozen one, natural selection kicks in and only the decent strong sperm survive but we wanted a fresh one so we had no regrets. Having said that, i definitely have no issue about using frozen embryos - obviously!

In terms of both of us having procedures on the same day, the only issue we had was getting someone to bring us back to birmingham. My anasthetic was so short that i felt fine afterwards and no pain at all. Terry had no pain or the need for painkillers, just some sickness after the anasthetic.

We certainly came out of our first appointment with him feeling in very good hands and that if he couldnt find them, then no one would - and i guess in this azoo hell, that feeling is what you need in order to know that you did everything you could.

Oh and in terms of there being no difference between tese and mtese ..... @#/*! Its the difference between going in with a blindfold on and just having to grab what you can and hope for the best and actually being able to see areas that are 'fuller' and therefore likely to contain sperm. Im guessing your specialist only does tese and wants the business?!


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## Deb111

Duplicate post


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## rdleela

Hello all my lovely azoos ladies! Sorry I haven't posted much lately; was just patiently waiting for.....TODAY!!!! DH is currently in surgery and I am working in the cafeteria waiting for him to get out of his 4-5hr surgery! I will keep you posted on what the surgeon says after surgery...please cross your fingers and toes for us today!

Rae, huge congrats!

To all the ladies who hasn't had good news lately, try to stay positive!

To all the new ladies, welcome! It has been 9 long months since we first got our azoos SA results, DH had many, many tests, and instead of IVF/ICSI he is having surgery to by-pass his blockage (we did biopsy which confirmed he has mature sperm) so feel free to ask my any questions about our path.

I'll update later! :)


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## rdleela

Ok, after surgery report, we got mixed results: Just to remind you of our back history, my DH had a hernia repair surgery, as well as surgery for undescendent testicle, both surgeries on left side, when he was very young.

Surgeon confirmed after surgery that it is b/c of those surgeries that DH's epididymis on the left is undeveloped and never made a connection to his testicle on the left, thus there are no sperm on the left. He did not perform any surgery on the left side.

The right side epididymis, b/c of this also, did not fully develop - the bottom half of the epididymis was completely abnormal and has lots of scarring...BUT good news is that the top half had some healthy tubules and he was able to find healthy, mature, and mobile sperm and there was a connection to the testicle. Our surgeon was able to do a VE to the top tubules, but he said it was tough. He said a VE on a fully healthy epididymis is a tough surgery, so the fact that my DH's wasn't fully healthy made it tougher. He is hopeful for us, though! He didn't tell me, but he told my hubby, that we had a 50/50 chance of this working for us. The best sign is that we have healthy, mature and mobile sperm.

DH has strict instructions NOT to have any ejaculation for an entire month. Anything strenuous like that could totally f-up the surgery, so it will be tough but worth it, we are not taking any chances!

DH is in a lot of pain here on day 2, especially on the right side. He had a testicular biopsy a few months back, and he says that this is WAY worse. We are in an awesome hotel suite, so we're both just relaxing. Fly home tomorrow morning, and at this point, we're worried about the flight for DH...

So now that we know that DH only has one side producing any sperm, I need to do some research on sperm counts with only one side!


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## Stinas

rdleela - :happydance: I replied in your journal 

Tiger - :hugs: This whole situation sucks. What I found worse than a failed cycle was when DH also started to apologize and say it was his fault. That alone broke my heart into a million more pieces than hearing "im sorry your not pregnant".


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## WANBMUM

Rdeela! Yahooooo! I'm so happy for you guys, I can't imagine what it must be like to be told he has SPERM! You have hope. That's awesome.
When will you know numbers? 
Your poor hubby, I hope he is feeling better soon :)


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## CanadianMaple

rdleela- I'm so glad that surgery is finally done and you know he has sperm in there! I hope the recovery goes well and get gets some great sperm counts!

AFM- I have two birth control pills left before starting my donor IUI cycle. I'm suddenly quite nervous about it. I know that's normal for what we're doing, plus I think the fact that I am signing my son up for kindergarten next year is making me nervous about having an actual baby in the house again. I really hope we don't have any more false starts, we've been through enough.


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## CanadianMaple

Gloomy- I'm so sorry you had to find yourself here. We've all been through the absolute shock of the azoo diagnosis and you're in good hands here.

Tigerlily- I'm sorry things are up in the air right now. I hope you get some of your answers soon. Having so many questions and conflicting info is really hard on the head.


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## rdleela

Canadian, so glad to hear you are so close to getting the party started!!! I would be nervous, too!

Ladies, thank-you all for the positive responses, it means so much to me!

First off, we did already know that he had mature sperm, we found out in a testicular biopsy that was done in the spring - what I was really happy about was hearing this time about his sperm is that he had MOBILE fully mature sperm, and that they were able to make a connection right there where the sperm were - that was good to hear!

So with this kind of surgery, the connections they made are SO swollen for so long, that on average it takes 6-9 months to see sperm in ejaculate. We are to get an SA at 2 and 4 months - BUT we bought a microscope, so as soon as he's allowed to ejaculate again in a month from now, we'll be putting it under our own scope! Most likely we will see zero, even out until the 4 month mark, but I have seen girls online with same surgery get sperm faster than that, so who knows, although my DH's case seems a bit worse than others, so I imagine we'll be more on the longer side of things...


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## deafgal01

Rd- That's excellent news! I will be hoping and praying that you see these sperms come out sooner rather than later.

Stinas- I guess you noticed that I've been a little absent from the boards lately. :shrug: I have my moments. I don't cry or get angry but I do get a little, I guess bitter is the word. So I'm back at that phase where I'm thinking this is so unfair- what we all have to go thru to get a baby, but I do have a goal to focus on so that is helping a little. So while I'm waiting to reach that goal, I'm keeping myself busy with work- well, I guess I am overworking myself but I will make sure not to get too exhausted or whatever.

Currently- savings = $600 (goal is to have $5000 so we can do 3 cycles of IUI before a break if nothing happens with that, shouldn't take us that long but just "in case")
Still need to get my blood screened for diseases and stuff- required for before we use a sperm donor
Still need to select our 3-5 options of sperm donor to submit to clinic
Still gotta sign the paper (for sperm donor use)

That's where I am right now. Oh yeah, DH has been diagnosed with hypogonadism recently. :dohh: So another diagnosis for me to research on.


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## Stinas

CM - Yay for getting started! 

DG - :hugs::hugs: Its good to have a plan set in place to keep you motivated. Its all just sooo frustrating....seems to never end.


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## CanadianMaple

Just a quick update. DH had his family doctor check his testosterone in June and it came back at 12 (range 10-50) which was low-normal compared to his previous 4.2 in Feb.

We decided to do one last SA before moving to donor sperm. While we knew he probably still had azoo, it was worth one more SA for closure.

Well, they still didn't find sperm. No matter how prepared and how okay you think you will feel about it, it still really, really sucks. But, the silver lining is that we already have our donor sperm and we now feel like we have had closure. Suddenly we are talking about baby names today and are talking about how I really could be pregnant this month. We can now move ahead without thinking what if. Dh has no desire to do the mTESE and that's okay with me...we'll get the baby we're meant to get. :)


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## raelynn

Canadian - So sorry that you didn't get better news but I'm glad you two are starting to get excited about moving forward. You'll love your baby just the same no matter how it comes to you! And you're so right, you'll have the baby that is meant for you and just perfect! Good luck!


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## deafgal01

Cm- :dust:


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## Stinas

cm - Thats wonderful that you finally have closure and feel great about moving on to DIUI.
:dust:


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## tigerlily1975

Hello everyone :flower:

I hope you're all well. Thanks for the kind messages, you all understand this so well :hugs:

*Arimas* How did the ET go? 

*Sun*.. you asked for it! :dust: :dust: :dust: 

*Deb* Thank you for all the info and for sharing your experiences. I definitely got the feeling he was pushing for business, but I guess he has to! I spoke to DH and he's happy to see Mr Ramsay. Thanks again, darling :hugs: ... oh, and not long now!!

*rdleela* That's great news on the surgery, I hope DH is recovering well. Does this mean that when all's healed you'll be able to try naturally? 

*Stinas* Are you preparing for the FET yet?

*WANBMUM* I saw in your siggie that you had an IUI in september... good luck!

*CM* Good luck for starting your IUI cycle!

*DG* :hugs: The bitterness creeps up on you, doesn't it? I'm exactly the same. One of the forums I've been on since joining BnB, women seem to join and then Bam! They're pregnant three months later and you can't help but feel envious. It's good that you have a plan you're working towards (focus is good!), but please don't work TOO hard now! 

*Rae* Hope you and little appleseed are doing well.

Big :hi: to silverbell, SND, Mo, gloomy and anyone else I've managed to miss.

Nothing new here to report, we're just concentrating on getting the money together to pay for the treatment next year.. *gulp*

BIG :hugs: to all, 

C xx


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## rdleela

tigerlily1975 said:


> *rdleela* That's great news on the surgery, I hope DH is recovering well. Does this mean that when all's healed you'll be able to try naturally?

Thank-you and yes!!! :thumbup:


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## momofadane

Hello ladies, 

I posted on here about two weeks ago becuase I had a feeling my Hubbys SA would be a zero. 

My husband has been on TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) for 5 years or so. We just found out that due to this we are unable to get preggo (basically a form of male Birth control).


He had a SA and first urology appt today, he saw a Dr that specializes in infertility. He has been off TRT for a month now and SA showed .05 million (normal is above 15 million). I was actually shocked to see there were any, from what I have read many times its zero. The Doctor said it was a great sign that there were even any there. He had him get more bloodwork done to see where his testosterone levels are and then will probably perscribe Clomid and/or Armidex. This will make his body start producing it naturally. The doctor said it will take a full 90 days for a full sperm cycle to occur but to keep trying to get pregnant in the mean time. He also said it may never come back :( and there is no way of knowing at this point. But for now I am keeping positive thoughts and hoping for the best!!


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## Deb111

Hi girls :hugs:

I know I haven't been on here much, but I have been reading as much as I can. It just got to the point where I got so behind with personals that posting became really hard.

Anyway, I've spent some time this evening catching up ...

*Bumphopes* &#8211; wishing you all the best with your diui &#8211; how frustrating that the waiting list for an appt is so long

*Snd* &#8211; how are you doing sweetie? I&#8217;m so sorry to hear about the funding

*Mrs C, StepMummy and MJ* &#8211; hope the pregnancies are going well

*CM* &#8211; I&#8217;m so sorry you&#8217;ve been through so much but I&#8217;m hoping things are now on track for your diui. Keeping everything crossed for you! I&#8217;m sorry to hear that the latest SA showed nothing, but great news that it has given you both the closure you needed in order to be able to move on with the diui

*SunUp* &#8211; Great numbers. Keeping everything crossed for you!

*Stinas* &#8211; not long til your FET &#8211; hoping all goes well

*Raelynn *&#8211; such fantastic news &#8211; huge congrats to you both!

*Mobaby* &#8211; I&#8217;m so sorry about the chemical &#8211; I hope you&#8217;re doing ok. Good news on the frosties though.

*Whlisa19* &#8211; I&#8217;m sorry you find yourself here. I have to be honest and say that the route you have taken doesn&#8217;t sit comfortably with me at all, but I do wish you all the best

*CBergs* &#8211; I&#8217;m so sorry about the mTESE &#8211; I hope you and dh are doing ok

*BettiS* &#8211; sorry you have had to join us, but welcome

*Silverbell* &#8211; I really have everything crossed that the dIVF will lead to your :bfp:

*Wgreen* &#8211; Welcome - I hope your upcoming appt gives you some answers

*Shellvz* &#8211; sorry you&#8217;ve had to join us, but welcome. I hope you&#8217;re doing ok

*Rdleela* &#8211; glad the surgery went well and that there is hope for a natural :bfp: Hope dh is healing well

*DG *&#8211; sorry you&#8217;ve been struggling lately. Good luck with the saving

*Momofadane* &#8211; &#8216;some&#8217; sperm, no matter how low the number is always great news! Arimadex helped my dh

:hugs: to anyone I've missed

AFM - just over 4 weeks to go and all going well - it still all feels a bit surreal if I'm honest after waiting so long!


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## BettiS

Heya girls

Haven't been able to post a lot lately but have been reading and searching for someone in the same kind of situation as I am (all of you are, but some more than others).

*rdleela* - you are giving me a glimmer of hope! REALLY and TRULY...good luck, I really hope things work out the way you hope they will!My situation is (I hope) similar to yours...

*MoBaby *- thanks for the info, still really hoping we won't have to resort to IVF or ICSI (it must be such a stressful thing to go through).

*Just to recap:*
DH had 3 surgeries in that area as a baby. Both his testes retracted independently and these had to be repaired, and (I think a bit later) he had testicular torsion on one side, which they also had to repair in an emergency operation. We don't know yet whether these surgeries caused the problem; we're only going to see the urologist on the 15th, but I'm silently hoping and praying that it's something they will be able to fix surgically and that we might be able to conceive the natural way. :flower:

I usually post on another site, and almost all of the ladies in my buddy group are now pregnant and constantly talking baby and morning sickness and blahblahblah and it's driving me INSANE!!! Not to mention the 22 (yes, TWENTY-TWO) friends and acquaintances around me in daily life, who have fallen pregnant since January this year, and are constantly talking pregnancy talk. I guess I'd be excited too if it were me...:wacko:

Sorry for venting...

Thanks for the welcoming messages, much appreciated.

*Any other girls who have surgical causes of azoo?*


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## BettiS

Deb111 said:


> Welcome BettiS. Sorry you find yourself here.
> 
> I will post more when i'm not on my phone, but just wanted to say that small testicles is not necessarily a sign of ks. It is a sign of some degree of testicular failure, but not necessarily total failure. There are many causes of this failure - ks is just one of many x

Hey Deb

Could you please give more details on the above quote if you have the time? Wow, scanned through your journal, SUCH a touching story! And soon you'll be a mommy at last!! SO exciting!:hugs:


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## snd80

Hey girls! Sorry I have been awol for a minute, but thanks to those who have been checking in on me...

First, congrats are in order to a few! :happydance: And hello to the new girls popping in!

I don't have much time for personals at the moment, but will be back to catch up. Just wanted to update real quick that we have a $15,000 home improvement loan in the works to fund our *one and only one* IVF cycle! So this *HAS* to work! It's like a craps shoot... all or nothing!!! We are also conisdering doing embryo adoption, as it is 1/3 cheaper than the IVF... really depends on if my clinic has any available to adopt. We should know something by the end of next week if the loan goes through. If not, I guess we will try one last IUI and pray that it works. My hubby lost his side job last week and all his extra income is gone, so this is all we have. My clinic found another IVF finance group, but after his job loss, we couldn't afford another pmt at the moment. So all prayers are needed on our end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be back later. We are having our grand opening at my work's new location tomorrow and everything is hectic, so it might be the weekend.... But wanted to let you girls know I'm still here and cheering you all along!!! :hugs: to each of you!!!


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## Arimas

Hi Ladies,

Wow this thread has grown! I havent had the chance to read everyones post since I last posted. I hope that everyone is doing well and is moving along with their plans/tests. 

I am just in the 2ww. Going for beta on Monday. Not gonna POAS before then. Just hope that I dont spot or bleed before the test like last time. 

Praying for all of us. *HUGS*


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## raelynn

snd - Praying that this works out for you!! Hopefully everything will go perfectly for your IVF cycle! :dust:


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## Stinas

snd - I hope everything works out soon!! Prayers your way!! xoxo

Tiger - AF finally showed her face!! I am going for CD2 bloods tom so I am guessing I will find out exactly when transfer will be. Hopefully!

Arimas - Good luck!!!!


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## deafgal01

Betti :hugs:

Snd :dust: good luck!


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## tigerlily1975

Hey lovelies :flower:

Another step closer to the weekend... yay!

*SND* Hello gorgeous! That's FAB news about the loan, I'm hoping to so hard that this works or as you've said HAS to work :hugs:

*BettiS* :hi: It's so hard to deal with this situation when it feels like everyone around you is falling pregnant. Good luck with your appointment, hopefully you'll get some positive news.

*Arimas* Gosh, not long until your beta. How many did they transfer? Keeping everything crossed for you!

*Deb* Wow! 28 days to go! Have you started your maternity leave yet?

*momofadane* That's great news! 

*Stinas* Not long now, lady!

Sending big :hugs: to everyone else.

AFM: Yesterday I went to sort out some temp work and guess where they're sending me?.... to a MATERNITY UNIT!!? I plan to hide behind my computer screen with a never-ending supply of chocolate :wacko:

C xx


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## deafgal01

Tiger- :hugs: wow yes lots of chocolates and hiding behind screens. Good time to learn skill of listening without glimpsing at their huge bumps.


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## Arimas

I had 4 transferred =o Out of the 4, I only had one good one and the RE told me the rest would not make it to freeze. So out of 6 embies, transfered one good one and three others with it. The last two did not make the freeze. 

Last time I only transfered the two good ones and nothing happened. So this time I though just transfer the max and see what happens. 

I am just hoping that one good one sticks. :) 

Sometimes I think its because the sperm is immature so they do not survive, but I have read that sperm from the testicles turn out to be healthy babies. 

If this time doesnt work then i dont know what else to try other than a different RE. 

Good luck ladies, my prayers are with you all and thanks for checking on me :) I will keep ya'll updated.


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## Deb111

Arimas - Bubble is from an embryo that was behind the others in developing and i know loads of people who have had great embryos and :bfn: and rubbish embryos and :bfp:

Tiger - i finished work last friday and i have to say my first week of leave has flown!


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## Stinas

Arimas - Good luck! 

Deb - I agree.....I have seen more ladies get BFP from "low quality" embryos. We transfered a perfect hatching embryo and it was a BFN. I am hoping our "ok" frozen embryo makes it!

I started my estrogen today!! I go in for bloods and ultrasound on the 16th, which is when I will know exactly when we are doing the transfer! I am excited, but a bit overwhelmed. I couldnt wait to get there, but when I did this am I got really emotional....like what if this does not work again, and we are stuck at square one, not to mention the 40k+ we lost and have to give again. Its just a lot to deal with right now, but I am hoping for the best.


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## CanadianMaple

I don't ever remember looking for our little group on page 2! It's been quiet in here.

How are you doing, Deb? What kind of mat leave do you get there?

Stinas- Good luck this time around! I can understand your fears. I'm really hoping this is it so you don't have to worry about everything else. 

Tigerlily- That would be tough to go there. We were at the RE office and the women in the waiting room were talking about their IVF, one was talking about her donor and one was saying how such used to be a maternity nurse and had to take a transfer to palliative care because she couldn't handle it anymore. IF is so cruel.

AFM- I'm on CD4, day two of Clomid. They are checking my LH levels on Friday. Those were high in the past and really have to be 10 or lower in order to continue with the IUI cycle. It affects egg quality if it's higher. When they did the CD3 ultrasound, he saw 30 antral follies on my right side and 10 on my left. I hope the Clomid doesn't make too many of those wake up! So, we're still not out of the woods yet, could still be canceled, but we'll see how it goes... Crossing my fingers.


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## deafgal01

CM- fingers crossed this cycle still happens for you and that you get a bfp!


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## Shellvz

Hi Ladies,

Wishing you all the best in your cycles and treatment plans. I have been reading the posts but haven't had much to add.

We don't see FS till Dec 10th so it has been a time of processing and absorbing for us still. Read lots of articles online and watched a few videos on youtube about male infertility and treatments.

Seems quite complex - feeling slightly overwhelmed by the road before us.

This is my first cycle knowing that a BFP highly unlikely if not impossible. I haven't been in this place before. Week two of 2ww and nothing to wait for. All my usual pmt symptoms have kicked in and now I know that they mean nothing - yet the habit of a year of ttc and reading into every symptom is a hard habit to break.

My Aunty died on Friday so I have a funeral to go to tomorrow. It will be lovely to catch up with all the family but I am hoping no-one asks me questions about when I will have a baby. I am making sure the outfit I choose to wear is flattering and won't give an impression of a baby bump!

It is difficult to believe that we are in this place. It helps to know that we are not alone. Sometimes I feel like a fraud writing on this baby bump thread as I can't get pregnant naturally. It will need a miracle or medical intervention for us and that is something we are still coming to terms with.


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## CanadianMaple

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I found that part to be the hardest, I went from charting and peeing on any stick I could to nothing. It took about a cycle to get used to, and even now with a donor IUI cycle, I could care less if I ever took my temperature again.

I had a really tough time waiting for answers. We saw our FS within about 6 weeks, but then we had to wait for genetic testing to come in before our urologist would even see us. I don't remember seeing anyone else having to wait like that just to talk to a specialist. But, looking back, I think all the waiting really did wonders for me with processing the news and it helped me be ready for the next hurdle.

I remember there was a time where I posted all the time about how mad I was and how frustrated I felt. If you need to do that, we're here for you and totally understand.


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## Stinas

cm - Thank you!! All fingers and toes crossed for you!


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## gloomydays

Hi ladies, I hope you are all well, I am almost through the reading phase, page 270ish so I still have a ways to go to catch up. I was wondering if you could help me... I know there's the spoiler on the first page BUT I'm confused and wondering, my DH has a followup app tomorrow, he has has the testosterone blood test, I've written on the list for the 2nd SA to be certrifuged, what other blood tests do I need to get him to do straight away? Thanks for your help ladies :)


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## Deb111

Cm - i can have a year off work and they have to keep my job open. The maternity package where i work is the ABSOLUTE minimum that they have to give me :nope: I get 90% of my salary for 6 weeks and then i drop down to about 25% for another 32 weeks i think and then nothing for the other 14 weeks or so so i may end up going back then, but at least 6 weeks of that would be the summer holidays.

Shelley - as cm says, the waiting is horrible, but in retrospect it does give you some valuable time to process things and also do some research. Appointments are a lot easier when you know what to ask and have some understanding of what you are being told. Feeling overwhelmed is totally normal - this is not something anyone ever expects to go through and you will be going through a type of grief too. Be as proactive as you can - it really helps to feel you are doing something.

Gloomy - you need to get test, lh, fsh, prolactin, oestradiol. If you can get them to do a karyotype test, cystic fibrosis carrier test and a y chromosone micro deletion test then even better but you may struggle to get them at this stage. Im sure the other ladies will jump in if ive forgotten anything x x


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## Soili

Shellvz, I couldn't have said it better than you did... Our situation is a bit different (DH has sperm, but 100% immotile), but it means the same thing in the aspect of hoping to fall pregnant naturally. It's been 5 months since we found out. I still use OPK, because my cycles vary a bit and I like to know when to expect AF. But this cycle was the first time we didn't BD on schedule. I think I'm only now starting to come in terms with the idea... ICSI is the only way to go for us.

I'm not sure if it's ok for me to post here... There doesn't seem to be anyone at all on the board in the exact same boat. This is the only group I'm reading, but hesitate to post.


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## snd80

Well, news not good on my end. :sad2: I'm afraid the bank is not going to give us the full amount. I'm just plain hurt. I should have known better than to get my hopes up. I was put on a embryo adoption list, behind 6 others I might add, so I am once again at a hault. I just can't win for losing!!!! I'm past the part of crying and am now pissed!!! Not one or two blows, but now three!!! Life is just so cruel!

Hope you girls are doing well. I'll keep cheering from the sidelines!!! :hugs: to each of you!


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## deafgal01

Soili- I'm glad you posted in here. It is more than ok for you to post in here. :hugs:

Snd- :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: Banks are greedy *******s, that's all I have to say to that. I hope you find a way. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## CanadianMaple

I'm sorry snd. I really believe you're way too determined to stop now. I hope you find a way around this lately hurdle. You've been through way too much. 

I'm getting nervous for Friday's blood test. If the LH is high, it's all called off. I had some fertile-like CM today and it made me worry that my LH was high. I have gotten EWCM this early in the cycle when my LH was too high in the past...but I just hope it's the Clomid.


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## deafgal01

Cm hope u still get to try this cycle instead of having it cancelled. :dust:


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## WannabemomRN

I've read many of the posts on this thread. I have a similar story as some others on here:
I'm an RN. My husband and I have been together 4.5 years, married 15 months. TTC almost one year. After 7 months my gynecologist was concerned that the issue may be my husband. After first SA it came back with ZERO sperm in the centrifuge. We now have an appt scheduled with urologist on the 16th. We have only discussed adoption and IVF with HIS sperm. I am worried that for some unknown reason there may be no production of sperm. If that's the case if he is opposed to sperm donation or embryonic donation I am afraid that I will resent him. Any helpful ideas?


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## silverbell

WannabemomRN said:


> I've read many of the posts on this thread. I have a similar story as some others on here:
> I'm an RN. My husband and I have been together 4.5 years, married 15 months. TTC almost one year. After 7 months my gynecologist was concerned that the issue may be my husband. After first SA it came back with ZERO sperm in the centrifuge. We now have an appt scheduled with urologist on the 16th. We have only discussed adoption and IVF with HIS sperm. I am worried that for some unknown reason there may be no production of sperm. If that's the case if he is opposed to sperm donation or embryonic donation I am afraid that I will resent him. Any helpful ideas?

I'm sorry you've found yourself here. All I would say is just try to relax as much as is possible (I know it's difficult, believe me) and try to take a step back at the moment and just let things play out. If there is no production of sperm then it may well be that your husband will 'come around' to the idea of donor sperm or embryonic donation. But right now it's just a huge load of 'what ifs' with lots of unanswered questions. As soon as you know a bit more then you can approach talking about the alternative options. Thinking of you and your husband :hugs: Hope you get lots of answers in 5 days' time.


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## silverbell

CM - I'm sure it's just the Clomid. Hope all goes well tomorrow :hugs:

SND - I'm so sorry. I do agree with CM though - you're waayyyy too determined to let this stop you :thumbup: I do hope a lovely load of luck turns up on your doorstep very, very soon :hugs:


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## Arimas

WannabemomRN said:


> I've read many of the posts on this thread. I have a similar story as some others on here:
> I'm an RN. My husband and I have been together 4.5 years, married 15 months. TTC almost one year. After 7 months my gynecologist was concerned that the issue may be my husband. After first SA it came back with ZERO sperm in the centrifuge. We now have an appt scheduled with urologist on the 16th. We have only discussed adoption and IVF with HIS sperm. I am worried that for some unknown reason there may be no production of sperm. If that's the case if he is opposed to sperm donation or embryonic donation I am afraid that I will resent him. Any helpful ideas?

So sorry to hear about zero sperm result. When my DH had that result they did many tests such as 1) check urine after ejaculation to see if he has retrograde ejaculation 2) checked if he has cystic fibrosis 3) did another two SA just to make sure there is zero sperm 
Luckily they did find sperm when they did his TESE (testicular biopsy) and we have been using the sperm from there for IVF but no luck so far. Also ask to see if ur DH is missing his vas deferens (tube that travels mature sperm) He might have blockage? 

Give it time, maybe after all of these tests he will come around if there is no sperm found, but i hope that you do find some :hugs:


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## SunUp

So sorry SND! I know there is an answer, somehow, that will make you a mom! Will send you lots of hugs!

CM- Fingers crossed for a good blood test!


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## deafgal01

RN- if he says no to the idea, give him time. It might take a while to get him to come around to the idea of "half donation" for your forever baby. But definitely get the answers before addressing these ideas. Most men are the type that like to wait til they cross that bridge before dealing with stuff.


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## snd80

Thank you girls for you kind thoughts and words. :hugs: My precious aunt called me this morning and told me I could have her credit card line of credit if I could make the payments on it. Of course I said no... I couldn't afford another pmt right now, but it was so nice to know that she would have done that for me; although her bank might have become curious as to why a woman her age was charging fertility treatments/drugs! :rofl:

So here is my freakin' Plan D or E; I can't keep up anymore.... my truck will be paid off in exactally one year, so that is $300 a month. IFFFFFFFFFFF I can keep myself (and my marriage) together between now and then, I will start the IVF. Until then, I think I am going to wait til about Apr or May to try one last IUI (a complete waste of time and $, I already know) and hopefully by SOME MIRACLE of GOD it might work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the mean time, I'm going to kill it in the gym. That is all I know to do, unless Publisher's Clearing House decides to show up at my "worthless" house (according to my bank) before then!!! :brat:

So wait, wait, wait!!!! I'm so sick of all this waiting! Maybe they will call with an available embryo to adopt in the mean time... I CAN scrap up $5 grand for that pretty quick! But other than that, I am just a sitting duck in a pond. Isn't life just _SOOO_ grand!!!! :amartass:

Ok, enough bitching for today! Thanks for listening!!!!! :friends:


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Aw Snd, that is a hilarious thought- charging up your aunt's cc and having the bank wonder why the heck she's getting that stuff at her age. :rofl: :hugs: I hope you get your bfp soon (and the money for it).


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## SunUp

Snd! Life is so unfair at times! Bug hugs! If I win the lottery- i'll help out, waiting is the worst!


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## CanadianMaple

SND, I'm sorry. Let's hope that if you do one more IUI, it works and all the worry about paying for an IVF cycle won't ever have to happen.

AFM- I think my LH level was too high on Friday. They are waiting until tomorrow's appointment for more b/w and an u/s to say for sure what's happening. I had an almost +OPK on Thursday (cd7) and way too much fertile CF for it to be under 10. It makes me so sad. Cross your fingers that they can salvage this cycle if it was high. I think it's lower again like it usually goes, so maybe if the number is back below 10, they will still let it happen. I wasn't prepared for my body to have a hard time since the IF was azoospermia. I had a pregnancy with my son without any problems and wasn't mentally prepared for my body to change so much in 5 years.


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## deafgal01

CM- still praying for good news for your cycle tomorrow. I can't believe a body can change so much in 5 years that you could be fertile and then struggle. :dohh:


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## Shellvz

End of my first 2ww with no hope of bfp. Af arrived on schedule this morning - so punctual as per usual.

I knew I wouldn't conceive this cycle yet still disappointed by the reality.

I feel I have deep layer of grief trying to get out. So far I have refused to let myself grieve or cry properly. Find myself teary about everything else instead... 

Maybe I should just get aside and have a good cry!


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## deafgal01

Shell- that would be just what the dr orders... Let yourself have a good cry about it. It is a hard journey and keeping it "hidden away" inside won't help you deal/cope with this.


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## CanadianMaple

Shell- I was the same as you. I think the shock of it all held me from crying, I kept thinking and hoping it was a mistake and we would get pregnant and surprise everyone. It really does take some grieving and you will go through a lot of those stages of grief. I hope you can get some answers coming in, it helps to start understanding why this is happening.

AFM- I go in for my CD11 blood work and ultrasound in the morning. I think they are probably going to cancel my cycle, but am holding out a bit of hope.


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## CanadianMaple

I went for my cd11 check and the nurse told me my LH was way too high on Friday...17!! (Had to stay under 10) She told me that my cycle was likely canceled and I would have to be put on injections or IVF after having a formal meeting with the head RE.

I went back to the waiting room with DH and got teary-eyed while waiting for my follicle check. The RE there, I had never met her before, told me I had not ovulated even through the LH was so high and I had 3, 13mm follicles. They want me to come back in 2 days and said they would see what my bloodwork from today says before they discuss my case with the head guy.

So, they really didn't do a great job at explaining what's going on. I think it's still on? Maybe? I have no idea.


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## Chickadeedee

Hello all... :hugs:
I believe I posted on this board waaaayyy back when we first received our Azoo diagnosis... I am currently going through all the past posts and have made it to page 171.. Phew! :wacko:
So a little history:
My DH had testicular cancer about 25 years ago - one testicle removed, and treated with radiation. All clear since. 
We have been together for 17 years and decided to start trying last year. Out went all the pills and in came all the OPK's & PG tests! After 6 mos I started worrying about our ages - I was 36 and he was 53. So I went to see my OBGYN. She wanted DH to do a SA just in case.. He dragged his feet for a month and finally did it... When she called with the results, she said it showed 75,000 sperm and we would definitely need IVF... I was ok with that....
We got into the FS rather quickly and they wanted another SA. No problem, so we did one. I made a follow up appt. to get the ball rolling with IVF.
I never in a million years thought we would sit down and be told that this SA had ZERO sperm.. :shrug: the doctor immediately said "donor sperm is your only option. You have no sperm most likely because of the cancer".
My DH was not having any of that! He wanted to do another SA....
This one came back zero as well. There must have been a mistake on the very first one...
His normal, local urologist referred us to one of the best in the country, which happened to be 4 hours away. After our initial meeting, the new urologist wanted two more SA's just to be sure...obviously those came back with zero sperm as well.
Well, to make a long story a little shorter, he just underwent mTESE and it was found that he did have a blockage. Tissue was sent to the FS and frozen just in case. The doctor fixed the blockage and now we are back in limbo.
Has anyone else had any success with fixing a blockage and becoming pregnant naturally? 
Part of me wants to just say screw it and head right to IVF anyway.. I am turning 38 soon and just want to get on with it!!!!
I just called the FS to see exactly what was frozen and all they could tell me was something about 4 vials with tissue and then she muttered something about 8 sperm and that is plenty for IVF????!!!!! Now I am really worried :nope:

I just want to say that all of your stories (so far) have moved me tremendously and have helped me deal with the ANGER and OUTRAGE I have been feeling since the diagnosis... :hugs:


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## Soili

CanadianMaple, what is the concern with high LH? That you'll ovulate before the follies grow mature eggs? I don't think 17 is that high for 3 follies that are actively growing... In the paper that came with my blood test results it says it's supposed to be 2-12 in follicular phase and 9-76 mid cycle (the higher - the closer to ovulation I presume). Will they continue monitoring the progress? Maybe your follies will catch up in a few days, despite LH?


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## CanadianMaple

I think that's the concern. The LH does something to how they mature and today I found out that my progesterone is getting too high too. It's 6.1. 

The RE on call today gave me the option to cancel or to wait two more days to see how things look. I opted to wait the two days to know I gave it my everything. They are definitely wanting me to meet with the head RE in the coming weeks to discuss injectables and possibly IVF.


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## Stinas

Chickadeedee - Sorry you are still struggling with this. I had 2 vials of tissue from DH TESE...which they said was good for 2 rounds of IVF. Our first round was not successful(transfered a perfect hatching 5AA and stage 1 blast), but we managed to get one frozen embryo which we should be transferring within a week or so. 
I would not worry about what they said about 8 sperm....I dont know how they would know that there is 8 sperm in the vials when the embryologist picks them out the day of your ER. Maybe they found 8 sperm(non tissue sperm) while doing the TESE (during my dh's TESE they found 3).
rdleela dh just got the surgery...i would pm her and she will be more than happy to explain everything to you.


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## Deb111

Chickadeedee - we had the mTese and they found about 40 sperm. I only had 8 mature eggs so they used 8 sperm to inject the eggs using ICSI rather than IVF. I imagine that is what they will do with you. We got 3 blastocysts, had 2 put back which didnt work and one which we froze, had transfered on valentines day and is now due in 17 days! Numbers really dont need to be high for ICSI (and im 38 and hubby is 46 by the way :winkwink: )


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## Chickadeedee

Stinas & Deb - thank you so much! I was soo confused... My experience with this particular FS hasn't been the best - I was so surprised that the doctor never suggested SSR or mTESE - just automatically focused on donor sperm.... ESPECIALLY since the FS doctor did his residency WITH THE VERY SAME UROLOGIST that we ended up with!!??? :dohh:
Since there was a blockage that was causing the Azoo, and the blockage was repaired, I am assuming we will try naturally for a bit, before moving towards IVF w/ ICSI as nothing is covered under insurance and it is all out of pocket. Ugh, so MORE waiting :cry:


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## Chickadeedee

Oh, and CONGRATS Deb!! Reading this thread from the beginning, I feel like I have sort of been with you since the beginning :winkwink:


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## Stinas

Deb - 17 more days?! WOW yay! How exciting! Im hanging on to your story because I am hoping my one :cold: will be my miracle baby too! 
I should be transferring within a week, if you want to change the front page.


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## Deb111

Chick - the NHS told us our only 2 options were donor sperm or adoption. Unfortunately we had to pay to do all of this privately but it was worth every penny.

Also had a similar experience at the start of our investigations - the NHS told us first SA was normal so to be told second was zero was one hell of a shock! Turns out both were zero but someone has pressed the wrong button on the pc and sent us the 'everythings normal' letter by mistake!

Stinas - will update for you when im on pc instead of phone. Remember frosties are lucky for us azoo girls - not just me but MJ too x x


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## MoBaby

That brings me hope!! I have 4 frosties left to bring us our BFP!! Me and Stinas are next!! Our azo babies :) 

Deb: Cant believe your baby is due in a little over 2 weeks! I remember when you got your BFP!!! OMG!! Congrats :)


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## SunUp

Yay Deb, SO CLOSE NOW!!!

Oh when you're on the PC you can update my status as well on the first page :)

Stinas- Hoping for this to be your time for a BFP!


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## BettiS

Well hello girls

DH's urologist visit was yesterday.

The doctor did a scrotal exam and could find nothing out of the ordinary; testicular size and prostate are fine. 

He also did a doppler test and couldn't find anything wrong. 

They took some blood and did all the necessary testing and the doc just phoned him and said that his bloodwork had all come back 100% normal. *EDIT: Doctor phoned me later the same day and said that his TESTOSTERONE was normal but his LH and FSH were both slightly elevated.*

He didn't do a follow-up semen analysis, he wants DH to go for that in December (3 months after previous one - that means new sperm production before then, if there is any production taking place). 

He also tested DH's urine and could find nothing wrong there, and no sperm in it.

I had thought that there would be a sign from the blood tests of what was wrong, but now everything has come back normal. What is causing the problem then?

The doc said that microsurgery to fix possible problems with his vas deferens would likely be ineffective and an unnecessary expense and that most likely we would have to do TESE and ICSI anyway. Could there have been any other signs of vas deferens problems in the tests done?

I'm confused :-k


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## Deb111

SunUp said:


> Yay Deb, SO CLOSE NOW!!!
> 
> Oh when you're on the PC you can update my status as well on the first page :)
> 
> Stinas- Hoping for this to be your time for a BFP!


Will do - not sure if ive said it but HUGE CONGRATS TO YOU BOTH x x


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## Deb111

Betti - the fact that all tests have come back normal MAY suggest that he is producing sperm but that there is a blockage. If there was a problem with his actual production, his body would have recognised that and would be trying to fix things by increasing the fsh and lh. A problem with the vas deferens would prevent the sperm from coming out but from what ive read, that kind of surgery can be very tricky and not very successful and often sperm retrieval is easier and a better option. However rdleela will be able to give you more infi on surgery to bypass a blockage. I dont want to get your hopes up falsely, but normal blood tests can be a positive sign xx


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## BettiS

Thanks Deb

Everyone, please note the EDIT on my previous post. Men really don't remember important things about this stuff...


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## Arimas

BettiS- My DH had to do SAs monthly until they did his TESE, first a biopsy to see if they find sperm, and the second when we had the sperm tissue extracted to use for IVF. 

I guess you can wait the three months, but did they give him anything to take medicine/vitamins to help with sperm production?


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## tigerlily1975

BettiS said:


> Well hello girls
> 
> DH's urologist visit was yesterday.
> 
> The doctor did a scrotal exam and could find nothing out of the ordinary; testicular size and prostate are fine.
> 
> He also did a doppler test and couldn't find anything wrong.
> 
> They took some blood and did all the necessary testing and the doc just phoned him and said that his bloodwork had all come back 100% normal. *EDIT: Doctor phoned me later the same day and said that his TESTOSTERONE was normal but his LH and FSH were both slightly elevated.*
> 
> He didn't do a follow-up semen analysis, he wants DH to go for that in December (3 months after previous one - that means new sperm production before then, if there is any production taking place).
> 
> He also tested DH's urine and could find nothing wrong there, and no sperm in it.
> 
> I had thought that there would be a sign from the blood tests of what was wrong, but now everything has come back normal. What is causing the problem then?
> 
> The doc said that microsurgery to fix possible problems with his vas deferens would likely be ineffective and an unnecessary expense and that most likely we would have to do TESE and ICSI anyway. Could there have been any other signs of vas deferens problems in the tests done?
> 
> I'm confused :-k

Hi BettiS :hi:

Just wanted to say that all my DH's blood work came back normal (slightly raised FSH, but still within normal range), so we still don't know to this day what caused the Azoo. 

It's one of those really annoying conditions where everyone seems to have different results and different outcomes. You will get there, though :hugs:

C xx


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## BettiS

Hey!

Nope, no vitamins or supplements were even mentioned. Think once we visit the FS maybe he will have suggestions and instructions.

One ray of light is that the fertility clinic we are being referred to only has a 2 week waiting period for an appointment, so we can be helped quickly.. Bad news is that theyr TESE prices are a bit higher than other quotes I have gotten.

Lol TMI but it's like DH is a rabbit since his diagnosis. He cannot leave me alone! Guess it's because the pressure is off now?


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## Arimas

Yea maybe the FS will be more informative as to what you need to do now. 

Thats good its only a two week waiting window :) 

Hopefully the TESE will be a one time thing and you can pay it off quickly, ask if you can be on a payment plan to pay over a time period.


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## Deb111

BettiS - a slightly raised fsh and lh indicate some degree of testicular failure but it also means that his body has recognised there is a problem and is trying to fix it. It potentially means, as in my hubbys case, that meds such as tamoxifen or anastrazole may help to push the fsh and lh even higher in order to drive sperm production. In my hubbys case, his testosterone was low too


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## BettiS

Thanks girls. Of course, I hope that meds will help, especially hoping that if there isn't sperm yet, that the doc will prescribe meds to help produce some, even if they don't come out.

Really emotional today since my class of matriculants had their last day today and I've been teaching them for 5 consecutive years. Feels like my own children are leaving me :(


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## rdleela

Hi, everyone! I've been quiet because DH has just been recovering from his surgery. Yesterday he was 22 days past surgery, and I really, really wanted him to wait another week to have sex, BUT he convinced me yesterday, lol. He was wanting to for the past week but was holding off. Really, only the first two weeks post surgery were awful, and he said everything felt fine when we did it, no pain! So, we didn't wait as long as I wanted to, but the fact that he's feeling so good makes me feel ok about it all.

So anyone wondering about surgery to repair a blockage on their DH, please PM me or read my journal, link below.

We bought our own microscope, so I think soon we'll try scoping to see if we've got anything, although with my DH's surgery, it's highly unlikely to see any swimmers at the beginning, it takes at least a few months post surgery due to the time it takes for the swelling to go down in those tiny, little tubes!

We have decided that if by February we don't see any swimmers, we will be scheduling IVF/ICSI for July. (I don't want to get preggo in March, April, May or June, for multiple reasons.) I turn 34 in May, so yeah, really want to get the show on the road!


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## BettiS

Lol rdleela I really love your pic!

AFM...I keep on wondering if it wouldn't be worth it to go for a follow-up SA sooner than December. Problem is that it's so frickin' expensive! I'm just so scared that it will turn out to have been a "misfire" (sorry for the weird terminology, haha). 

Will just try to hold out for another month and then go. Might try to get the appointment with the FS around then and then maybe he will send DH for a SA again.


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## CanadianMaple

Deb- Can you update the front page to say my dIUI cycle was canceled on cd13 and we now have to move on to injectables or IVF. Waiting for an appointment to see the RE for a new plan.


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## WannabemomRN

Is anyone willing to relay the emotions their DH's went through after being Dx with azoo? Mine was silent after 1st SA, slightly angry after the urologist (which blood work showed a FSH of 36) but physical exam was normal, next SA scheduled for Monday. He has been bitter and angry towards me this week. Out of nowhere asking what I would do if he didn't go through with all of the testing. So adding to my already frayed nerves is this mean DH. I'm trying to keep my chin up, but this man is testing my wits all of a sudden. I want a baby more than anything, but not at the cost of my marriage :nope:


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## Stinas

WannabemomRN - Im really sorry dh was diagnosed with azoo. It is a true test to marriage I can tell you that. The emotions he is going through is normal. There are a lot more to come so tell him to prepare himself and not to put his anger towards you because it wont change the diagnoses. Every azoo is different and has different outcomes. You can see just by reading the front page or through some of them. 
Once you diagnosed, it is all about anger, so try to be patient because its a big thing for a male(us too but men are babies and react differently than we do lol) 
I wish you the best of luck and know that all us azoo ladies are all here for one another!!! 

CM - Its never ending for you! Im sorry....I hope you find your answers soon! Lots of hugs to you!

Deb - I am officially PUPO! We transfered one frozen embryo this am!! It thawed nicely. They rate them differently for frozen he said....out of 100% ours was 70% which he is is not that great, but it was showing expansion and growing at a good rate. I thought that was great! I was waiting for the call saying it was not alive. I kept thinking of your story and it gave me a ton of hope! Thank you!


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## Deb111

Fab news stinas! :happydance:
We were told anything over 50% is fine for transfer - seemed bizarre to us but 70% isnt bad at all and the fact its re- expanding well is great news.

So sorry about your news CM :hugs: hope youre doing ok x

I will update you both on the front page when i get on the computer


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## deafgal01

Mine was silent. He did not get angry with the diagonsis - it's more of "being angry won't change anything so no point in wasting energy on that" for my dh so he dealt with it different than I did but he did cry once and needed extra support from me cuz it made him feel less of a man but once I assured him of my love and that it does not make him less of a man, we were able to move beyond that and look into treatment options. I'm sure he has his moments like I do when he feels like life is not being fair. :shrug:


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## BumpHopes

For mine, he was really angry hurt and upset. He thought he let me down and his family down and that him on his own wasnt enough for me. He was angry and we did row because he had to vent, and i just let him. Its taking me a long time to believe me when i say he is enough, hasnt let anyone down. The most important thing to me is him. I think that is my fault in part, i went to crazy baby lady when we was trying for so long. Bt we are more chilled out now. I think you need to give him time. Chose next step when ready but everyone is different and i know every Azoo is different and couples treat it differently. I just reassured all the way im not going anywhere and we talked about everything, giving up, trying tese and donor IVF. 

Good luck Stinas. I dont know much about these things but 70% sounds pretty good right? How you feeling?


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## Stinas

Bump - I know I thought it sounded pretty good to me! Heck, im just happy it survived the thaw. We had a perfect hatching embryo the first time and it didnt work, so I can care less about percentages now. I feel fine....PIO is killing me and had a splitting headache today(prob not related)....other than that, FET's are sooo much easier!


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Girls,

I know most of you know Deb, so thought I'd stop by to say you might like to visit her journal :cloud9:

Deb - I hope you don't mind when you see this xxxx


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## WannabemomRN

Thanks!


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## deafgal01

How is everyone holding up in their journeys?


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## BettiS

Hi girls

Just wanted to let you know that my OBGYN FINALLY called to ask if I wanted a referral to a FS. He said his receptionist would be calling me by Friday to go and fetch it at his office. Once I have it I will give the FS a call and make an appointment. I corresponded with the clinic by e-mail and they said that from the date of the call, the appointment should be around 2 weeks later.

So here we go on our crazy ride...


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## deafgal01

Yay Betti!!!


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## SunUp

How is it going Stinas?


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## Deb111

Hi girls
Hope youre all doing ok and hanging in there.
For those of you who havent seen it in my journal; Aimee Meghan was born on 26th oct at 10.01am. She is absolutely gorgeous and so good.

Pictures are in my journal x x


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## BettiS

Congratulations Deb, Aimee is absolutely breathtaking! :mrgreen:

AFM, My OBGYN called yesterday, I am going to fetch my referral letter this afternoon after work. Will call the fertility clinic tomorrow for an appointment (will try to make it for the beginning of December as I have to get paid first). A little excited but more than anything I'm scared out of my mind.

My temp dipped really low this morning so I'm expecting AF to pop in today. I dunno why, but somehow, although I know that it's not possible, I keep hoping every cycle that AF will stay away and that we will miraculously have gotten pregnant naturally. I guess it's still sinking in :cry: This was my last cycle temping...ever. I'm NOT going to keep putting myself through this.


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## BrandyRelax

Betti - I totally agree, I just keep thinking maybe something has changed and it's miraculously fixed and w got pregnant on our own... wishful thinking I suppose.

AFM - just waiting for the Urologist appointment on November 9th. I can't go, which sucks, but I'm sure DH will bring back enough of the story that we can make a decision. Here's who we were referred to: (Dr. Keith Jarvi at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto)
https://www.mountsinai.on.ca/care/mkuwc/staff/dr-keith-jarvi
Has anyone else seen him?

Hopefully he's good.


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## BettiS

OK I am dumbstruck. Went through DH's blood test results (I went to fetch the referral). Dhe doc told me over the phone that DH's FSH was slightly higher than normal...It's bloody 41.2! If that's SLIGHTLY high I'm a jelly tot. WTF, I'm so pissed off right now!!! PLUS, DH just "forgot" to tell me that during his physical the urologist told him his scrotum was smaller than normal. I'm looking for some random bum to kick the sh*t out of...


----------



## Shellvz

BettiS said:


> Congratulations Deb, Aimee is absolutely breathtaking! :mrgreen:
> 
> AFM, My OBGYN called yesterday, I am going to fetch my referral letter this afternoon after work. Will call the fertility clinic tomorrow for an appointment (will try to make it for the beginning of December as I have to get paid first). A little excited but more than anything I'm scared out of my mind.
> 
> My temp dipped really low this morning so I'm expecting AF to pop in today. I dunno why, but somehow, although I know that it's not possible, I keep hoping every cycle that AF will stay away and that we will miraculously have gotten pregnant naturally. I guess it's still sinking in :cry: This was my last cycle temping...ever. I'm NOT going to keep putting myself through this.

I feel exactly the same way. This is my second cycle knowing DH has no sperm yet still wondering if we will conceive anyway. I am only temping ovulation so only have to worry about temping 3 days before and 3 days after. More for my own benefit of pinpointing when af is due than worrying so much about bd'n at the right time.


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## Stinas

Sunup - Im doing ok....didnt test yet...tom am is my blood test. I am cramping a lot which I find weird. Many prayers needed!


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## deafgal01

Stinas :dust: good luck!!!!


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## SunUp

PRAYING, Stinas!!!! I cramped a WHOLE LOT! So hopefully it is a good thing for you!!


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## raelynn

Good luck Stinas! I also cramped before my BFP, that is what finally made me break down and test. Fingers crossed for you!


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## Deb111

Keeping everything crossed Stinas!


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## tigerlily1975

Good luck, Stinas! Keeping everything crossed for you!!

:hi: to everyone!

Not much to report here, we've our first consultation with Mr Ramsay on the 19th November, so hopefully we'll get some idea what the plan is for next year. 

Have a fab weekend, lovelies!

:hugs:

C xx


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## BettiS

Hi girls

So our appointment is booked for the 4th of December. I have been reading up on what to expect during our first visit, but everything is once again female orientated (as usual...what do they think, that men can't be infertile?!!!!). 

Can anyone please tell me what to expect if we already have referrals from my OBGYN and a urologist and azoospermia has been diagnosed already?


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## Stinas

Well ladies....no good news here. BFN. Pretty pissed and upset, but it is what it is. I was really praying the cramping was a good sign, but nurse said it was probably from PIO, event though PIO didnt give me cramps last cycle. 
I need to do a consult with my IVF doc, but so far my plan is DH going on clomid(which urologist did suggest first) for a few months, then doing another TESE. I really dont want to use anymore of the frozen sperm we have left if it will result in more BFN's. Im super tired of all this TTC crap at the moment. Plus being a bitch since AF should be here soon. 
I am planning IVF #2 early next year. I just need a break at the moment, not to mention the 20+k we will need to shell out once again. 
When the hell am I going to catch a break? This is sooo annoying!


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## MoBaby

I'm sooo sorry girl :( I know how you feel after 3 failed ivf... It will happen for us :) wish I could give you a real hug but :hugs:


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## WannabemomRN

Well we have a biopsy scheduled for DH for Friday. Praying we won't have to reschedule due to work conflicts that just sprouted up. Fertility doc on the 19th to examine the route we will take... Praying for everyone on here for BFPs, safe pregnancies & beautiful healthy babies!


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## BettiS

I'm so sorry Stinas. I hope you get things sorted out and that you will be able to find some more fresh spermies.

WannabemomRN - Good luck with the biopsy. Please keep us posted, especially me, since my DH will have to go for that soon and we don't really know what to expect.


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## BrandyRelax

BettiS said:


> Hi girls
> 
> So our appointment is booked for the 4th of December. I have been reading up on what to expect during our first visit, but everything is once again female orientated (as usual...what do they think, that men can't be infertile?!!!!).
> 
> Can anyone please tell me what to expect if we already have referrals from my OBGYN and a urologist and azoospermia has been diagnosed already?

Hi Betti

Here's my two cents, and at this early in the morning, it might just be worth 2 cents.

I live in Canada, so we have health care, so it might be different because we're covered for diagnostic tests.

We had the zero sperm diagnosis and went to the fertility specialist. I was surprised that she wanted to do all of the diagnostic tests on me (I thought, who cares if I can have a baby, he has no sperm!), but I guess they want to know I'm okay, so that they know he's the only problem. 

At the point that we saw the fertility specialist, we hadn't had all the genetic testing done, or the ultrasound to look for blockages, so she did that. And after she got all the tests back, she did a referral to the urologist.

If you've had all the urologist related tests, they'll just check you out and then recommend a course of action. So your tests - Day 3 blood, Day 24 blood, HSG or SHG (to check your tubes are clear), vaginal ultrasound to check nothing weird with your uterus. 

You may have a more productive appointment if you've already had this by your OBGYN, and your DH has already had the testing and you know if they're sperm.

At my FS appointments they don't know, and our Urologist appointment is only Friday, so we'll know what he suggests then.

Hopefully that helps....

Brandy


----------



## tigerlily1975

I'm so very sorry, Stinas :hugs::hugs:

Have the Drs said anything about the frozen samples? We have one vial left, but considering the quality from the other three, that bothers me, too.

I wish this could get easier for all of us :hugs:

C xx


----------



## tigerlily1975

Good luck with the biopsy, Wannabe! 

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## SunUp

Sorry Stinas!


----------



## Stinas

Thank you ladies! Its nice to have people that get it around me. 

tigerlily - I havent gone to the doc for a follow-up apt. I know the sperm they found was all in the tissue, so its not fully grown sperm or whatever you call them. I was hoping they would work, but guess not. The urologist did tell me after the TESE to have dh take pills and do another TESE before starting IVF, but since we found the 2 vials, I figured it was good enough. Trial and error I guess. I am hoping the pills will wake his system up. Doc seemed to think that would do the trick, since nothing else is wrong, all levels are normal, no surgeries, and balls are normal size. We will see I guess. I just dont think its smart to use the same sperm....might as well try the pill way, and if we dont find anymore sperm this time, we can still use whats frozen from before. Its worth a try. I refuse to give up on having his biological child.


----------



## TrustingGod

Hi I don't know if I am in the right spot. My husbands sperm analysis came up no sperm twice. Apparently he stopped making sperm at a young age. He has slightly low testosterone and high fsh. We are so heartbroken and don't know what to do. I don't know anyone who has been through this. Please help.


----------



## Deb111

So sorry stinas :hugs:

Trusting god - i am sorry you find yourself here but you are definitely in the right place. How do they know he stopped making sperm at a young age? Do you know what his hormone levels were?


----------



## Chickensoup85

Hello,

I've been poking around here for a little while but only just plucked up the courage to post.

After 4 SA they finally manged to get a result (all samples too small to test) and found 0 sperm. At his first urology appointment they found his testes were smaller than they should be and he has been sent for a blood test for chromosome analysis, an MRI and another SA. We have another urology appointment in 3 weeks where we should find out more.

I have a copy of his hormone results which all came back normal but with the help of doctor google I think his FSH is on the low side (3). Am I right in thinking that's low and that typical azoospermia is high??

Is anyone in a similar position? Can't wait for appointment; what do these results mean?? Lol (laugh or cry).

Thanks for reading.


----------



## TrustingGod

The urologist said that but I have never heard it. He said there is even a very slim chance that Ivf would work and he could possibly do testosterone supplements but they are very expensive with lots of side effects and probably wouldn't work. I'm so confused.


----------



## Deb111

Welcome chickensoup

Just a very quick one - TrustingGod - DO NOT LET them put dh on testosterone supplements / testosterone replacement meds! It will stop any sperm production that may be happening. He may have meant meds that will help boost things by driving the FSH which are fine


----------



## TrustingGod

What mess are the ones that are good and which ones are the bad ones? Do you know what causes the no sperm?


----------



## Deb111

Something like tamoxifen, anastrazole or clomid are good but it depends on your dhs results as to whether they would be suitable or not


----------



## TrustingGod

I was researching those meds and they seem like they are for females. I'm not even sure if that is a good next step or not. Maybe we should go see another urologist? I'm looking into the support group and wanting to attend that. This is just all way too overwhelming for me. I guess I will have to get a copy of my husbands bloodwork to see how it compare to others.


----------



## WannabemomRN

All I can say is research research research! I looked up everything. All possible scenarios before going to any of the appts. That way I knew what things to expect and the types of questions I wanted/needed to ask. The more you know the faster this process will be. Doctors like to drag their feet, if you're well informed they can't drag it out too long. ;) best of luck dear.


----------



## Deb111

They are primarily for women - tamoxifen is a breast cancer drug. I cant remember how it works but if you google something like 'tamoxifen and male infertility or azoospermia' you should find some info


----------



## MoBaby

Hi ladies!! FET nov 16th!!! Anxious as we are only putting back one embryo b/c of my unicornuate uterus as a precautionary measure.... But re strongly recommends so we want to do what he thinks is best :)


----------



## cbergs

Hi everyone,

Haven't been around much. Been trying to adjust and accept this new way of life. As for my post title, I am so sad to see so many new members on here. No one deserves to go through this kind of pain. Yes, worse things could happen- but this is a tragedy- and it is very real and profound. 

I have an A type personality, and am having a very hard time letting go of my dream to have my husband's child. I wish I could just move on like some- but I am stubborn as hell. Unfortunately, so is my husband. :(

I can say that it HAS gotten easier, and I can actually wake up without thinking about the situation and be happy. It stinks when it all comes rushing back though. 

My advice for those that are new to this process is to just keep your heads up, don't tell a lot of people around you unless you are very close with them, and stick by your guy. Mine stays pretty quiet about everything, but I'm sure he is hurting just as much if not more than me about it.

Good luck, and God bless.

-C


----------



## Chickensoup85

Good luck MoBaby! You must be so exited!

My referral arrived for my first gynocholosist appointment this week. It's for 10th Decmber but I have no idea what to expect. Google is no help. What happened at our first appointment? Should I make sure my legs are shaved? Haha.


----------



## BrandyRelax

Well our urologist appointment happened on Friday, and basically he said there isn't anything other than a few more SA's and then mTESE.

Because our doctor used a different fertility clinic, he wanted us to go back to our FS to get a referral for mTESE Avoidance Program SA's, so that if they find even one sperm, they freeze it. So called our FS, and found out our clinic has changed owners, and our doctor (and the other lead doctor) is gone. The only FS there is some young doctor from Montreal, who based on the description on the website, is from Montreal, and will be going back, so no continuity there. So I'm grumpy.

I was in a rush to get all of this set up, and now I'm not sure whether to follow our doctor to her new clinic, or since we need another referral anyways, if we should just go with the fertility clinic that our urologist uses.

Does anyone know how to get any success rates or reviews of fertility specialists in Ontario Canada?

Brandy


----------



## silverbell

Hey ladies. Sorry I've been so AWOL. It's very, very difficult to just be 'in limbo' at any point when TTC, but when you're so close to the end result and you're just not getting anywhere fast it gets even harder. I was fine as I was going through my IUI treatments, but as soon as they finished and we were just waiting for IVF news I felt like I was WTT all over again and it was incredibly difficult. At least other couples can TTC with the very small chance of pregnancy whilst waiting for more invasive treatments, but of course us ladies don't have that possibility and it's incredibly difficult to cope with. I was beginning to resent everybody, no matter what their situation, and I didn't like feeling that way. Being on BnB was not helping my state of mind and so I disappeared for a bit.

Anyway, back now with absolutely wonderful news, which we found out last Monday ... the NHS have approved us for 1 free cycle of IVF :dance: We found out at the end of our IVF set-up appointment, which we'd organised just to be ready for when the time came. Talk about chuffed! Even better was that I was day 19 so I was nearly ready for my next cycle.

Tomorrow I'm having a fairly new procedure called an 'endometrial scratch', which is literally a scratch made in the womb lining the cycle before an IVF cycle. It seems to be increasing the chances of success and at just £70 we feel it is worth a shot. We'd like to know we tried everything we could. Then later in the week I should get AF and will be starting injections from day 3. I'm on the antagonist cycle, which is a short cycle. I have a lowish AMH for my age (5.76) but am really hoping that I produce lots of nice eggs. I can't believe I could potentially (and hopefully) be in the 2ww in 3 weeks' time. :happydance:

---

Sorry about the difficult situation, Brandy. Us couples all seem to have some stumbling blocks along the way, don't we? I do hope somebody can help to answer your question.

Chicken - not sure how far you've gotten already, but for me DH had already had all his tests, so it was all about me. I did have an internal exam, so just make sure you're prepared in case. They did an ultrasound just to see if they could see any abnormalities on the screen. They then referred me for an HSG and some blood tests to be done on certain days of my period. Then I had to go back a couple of months later for the results. The HSG is very important because they need to check that your tubes are OK for IUI. Obviously if your tubes are blocked or damaged then IVF would be the way to go and IUI would be wasted. Hope this helps. I'm sure there will be others to help soon.

cbergs - so sorry to hear you're finding it so tough. I think all of us feel this way and even those that appear to have 'moved on' are still very deeply hurt and affected by this absolutely horrific diagnosis. Don't forget the emotions for those being diagnosed with a severe infertility have been likened to those feelings experienced by being diagnosed with cancer or with losing a loved one - the grief, anger and sadness is very profound and certainly not something others can understand unless they're going through it. It can feel a very lonely place and although I wish there was nobody else going through it, it still comforts me to know that you ladies are all here going through the same things and completely 'getting it'. Sending lots of :hugs: to you. You look after yourself x x x

MoBaby - amazing news! Keeping everything crossed that this is it for you :dust:

Trusting - I definitely agree with Wannabemom - research as much as you possibly can. Because I'm afraid to say that so many professionals are really not very clued up about azoospermia, mTESEs or anything like that. In fact our GP had no idea at all that you could even do a biopsy of a man's testicles to extract sperm. I think we have this idea that doctors know everything and they really don't. Our GP said we were the first case of azoospermia he'd ever come across in over 30 years of being a GP.


----------



## Stinas

Silver - Thats great news!!!!


----------



## deafgal01

Yay Silver! :dust: here's hoping you get a bfp within the next cycle!


----------



## MoBaby

silver: great news!!! YAY!


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## BettiS

Hi girls

I dare not mention these thoughts to DH since he shuts like a door when I try to talk about our options. 

I have been thinking a lot about the donor option lately, since with DH's REALLY, REALLY high FSH (41.2) I am suspecting that there really isn't going to be any sperm found...*Can't find any info online about the relation between the FSH numbers and whether sperm was found?? Does anyone here know more about that?* 

I might be jumping the gun (that's what my DH says about my concerns and worries regarding the journey we are embarking on) but I have an A type personality too and just CAN'T stop obsessing!! 

*To those of you who did successful DIUI*: What was your DH's reaction when you got your BFP? Was it like you always imagined he would react when you told him you were expecting? I keep thinking that, if it comes to that, I will always resent the fact that the baby isn't his and that he will resent it too. I have nightmares about it :(

Oh why did this have to happen to us?!?!


----------



## raelynn

BettiS - We did diui and hubby was actually asking me throughout the tww how I was feeling, if I felt pregnant, so he seemed to be just as involved. In the beginning I was very careful not to say things like 'baby takes after you' because I thought it might just be a painful reminder but now we pretty much just treat it like any other pregnancy. I can't speak for hubby but half the time I completely forget about the donor. The reality of finally having a baby pretty much just overshadows everything else.


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## MrsC8776

We did DIUI as well. Hubby was very excited about the bfp. He was overseas for the IUI and testing but it went over very well. He is so excited about the girls coming. Try just giving your DH time and if the testing comes back to where DIUI needs to be an option he might come around to it. For us it was actually hubby's idea and hard on me because I never thought we would be in that position. IVF just wasn't possible for us. The girls will ALWAYS be hubby's daughters no matter what. Just because they aren't blood doesn't mean anything. :hugs:


----------



## raelynn

Totally agree MrsC! Baby is hubby's 100% we even joke about how we hope it doesn't take after him for certain things :)


----------



## tamarah

Hi Ladies,

Could I please join ur thread?? 

A lil about me. I am 35 and Dp is 44. We have been trying to concieve for 2 1/2 years. We both have a child each from previous relationships. He has a 18 year old child and i have a 5 year old.

Received devasting news last week that ss had no swimmers nothing at all. Hoped that we could have the biopsy to at least find a single spermie. Second lot of bad news arrived two days ago. DP is completely infertile and no point spending more money on tests that are going to tell us the same thing. 

I am hoping that dp will be willing to use donor sperm so we can still have ivf etc. Would be really grateful if any one would share their experience of using donor and how DH's felt about this. Will be devastated if he refuses.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post xx


----------



## raelynn

Tamarah - First of all, so sorry you are having to go through this. This diagnosis is completely unfair and so tough to deal with. It took us a while to get to the donor sperm decision. We discussed it as one of our options but wanted to try everything else first. Hubby said the hardest part for him was having more than one option and not knowing which was the best to choose (since we did have a successful TESE) so in a way maybe it will be easier for your hubby having no other options. Hubby has several times said he wished he was either completely fine or had absolutely no sperm so that the decision was easier. Once we got to the decision though, it really helped to talk things over a lot and ensure hubby that no matter what, this child is his 100%. It is also really helpful to have support - whether that is family, friends, or counseling. Just someone outside the 2 of you that is supportive as well. Hopefully it'll all work out for you even though it won't be easy. I can say things are a bit easier now that I'm pregnant and we're just so excited to finally be having a baby.


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## BettiS

Hi everyone

I found this great music video on YouTube and just thought I'd share it with all of you since it's really relevant to our situation (caution if you are wearing mascara and it's not waterproof):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JqfGqOx2iDQ


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## MoBaby

Hey ladies!! I am officially pupo with a singleton.. It was a fet and the blast was hatching!!! Hopefully in a week or so I will be another azo success! This road is long and hard ladies but we have to keep our heads above the water!


----------



## Stinas

tamarah - Im sorry you are going through this! Its hard, but all these ladies are amazing!!!

Mo - YAYYYYYYYYY FX this is it!!!


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## Deb111

Tamarah - welcome. So sorry you find yourself here

Mobaby - thats exactly what Aimee was - a hatching fet so i am keeping everything crossed for your miracle too

Sorry i dont have much time to visit these days but am thinking of you all x x


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## Chickadeedee

MoBaby said:


> Hey ladies!! I am officially pupo with a singleton.. It was a fet and the blast was hatching!!! Hopefully in a week or so I will be another azo success! This road is long and hard ladies but we have to keep out heads above the water!

Congrats MoBaby!!! Praying for a sticky bean :hugs:


----------



## WannabemomRN

Well here's my disappointing update: DH went for testicular biopsy Tuesday. We received the results yesterday, Sertoli Cell Only. This was the one thing I had prayed it wasn't. I feel horrible for DH. We bawled and squalled together last night, talked about options. Adoption, donor sperm, or be bitter old people. After supper DH abruptly stated he wants to use donor sperm. I'm worried this decision is rash and he hasn't fully thought about the possibility of feeling differently. He states there's nothing else. We're not going to tell anyone that we're using donor sperm, it will be easier that way. This is such a scary journey we are all on. Prayers for everyone.


----------



## MoBaby

Wannabe: soo sorry! I dont think I could tell anyone about the ds either. I'm glad dh is on board with it. If you feel it's rash give it a few days for you both to think about it and then Readdress it. Glad he is already saying to go ahead with it though. Your dh sounds like a strong man!


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## tigerlily1975

Hello ladies :hi:

I hope you're all having a good weekend.

*WannabemomRN*, I'm so sorry :hugs: You take all the time you need to come to terms with this before moving on to the next step :hugs:

*Mo* that's fantastic! Keeping everything crossed for you!

*Tamarah* welcome! It's such a hard diagnosis to deal with. You will not find better advice or support than from the ladies in this thread :hugs:

*Silverbell*, how's your IVF cycle going? I'm soooo hopeful for you!

*Deb*, I hope you and your little bundle of loveliness, Aimee, are doing well :hugs:

*BettiS*, you've been given some terrific advice from ladies who have had BFPs using donor, I hope you're able to talk about it and come up with a plan that you're both comfortable with :hugs:

To everyone else, big, BIG :hugs: it's such a tough time of year we're heading into, but I'm quietly optimistic that 2013 will be a grand year for everyone here.

AFM, we've our appointment Monday evening with Mr Ramsay (as recommended by the lovely Deb!), so I'm trying to think up my list of questions and hope that he agrees that we're good to go next year.. eeeek!!

Ciao, lovelies!

C xx


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## SunUp

Mo! Fingers crossed!!

RN- Sorry, I have been there. Glad he is open to other options... We had to see a counselor before our RE would allow us (or any of his patients) to use DS and it was nice to talk about different things with someone who specializes in that. We have decided to keep it between us, which most people disagree with - but that is our choice, we are happy with it, and we are now 10 weeks along with our miracle and I cannot WAIT to watch my LO with his or her Dad, my DH will be an AMAZING Dad no matter what, and that is what is most important to me :). Will keep you in my prayers.


----------



## MoBaby

Deb: That is amazing. Gives me hope. RE said the blast should implant today since it was hatching. A few hours ago I began having left sided pelvic pain.. My uterus is only located in my left pelvis (unicornuate uterus tilted all the way to the left)... I am hoping this is a good sign because its not letting up. Its dull and not extremely painful but there. I remember with my BFP/mc cycle I began having this same pain at some point but I think it was 3-4 days after the transfer. I really hope this is it! :) 

Tiger: Mr Ramsay sounds amazing. I wish I lived in london :) Such a lovely place. Good luck Monday. Let us know how it goes!! I'm sure he will have amazing answers for you.


----------



## MrsC8776

WannabemomRN said:


> Well here's my disappointing update: DH went for testicular biopsy Tuesday. We received the results yesterday, Sertoli Cell Only. This was the one thing I had prayed it wasn't. I feel horrible for DH. We bawled and squalled together last night, talked about options. Adoption, donor sperm, or be bitter old people. After supper DH abruptly stated he wants to use donor sperm. I'm worried this decision is rash and he hasn't fully thought about the possibility of feeling differently. He states there's nothing else. We're not going to tell anyone that we're using donor sperm, it will be easier that way. This is such a scary journey we are all on. Prayers for everyone.

After taking over our options we also decided on donor sperm as well. Honestly if your hubby is ok with it and you are as well I say go for it. Of course you both have to make sure first. We also haven't told anyone that we conceived using a donor but that isn't something we have to share. It is our choice and none of their business. If you guys feel comfortable leaving it that way that is your choice. It doesn't matter what others agree with and don't agree with. Good luck and if you would like to talk feel free to PM me. :hugs:


----------



## MoBaby

Azo girls!!! Guess what finally is happening (well you can see my siggy)!!


Spoiler
https://i.imgur.com/qqjSyl.jpg

dont lose hope!! This has been a hard long journey and we have to make it to beta first before anything (then u/s) but I feel like this is a great sign!! This came up in like 30 seconds (less than a minute for sure) and I am only 9-10 dpo... OMG!! Please stick azo baby!! Beta is not until Nov 30th but I am going to try to get it done next monday instead :happydance:


----------



## Deb111

Huge congrats mobaby - at the risk of sounding smug - i told you it was all looking good :smug:


----------



## MoBaby

I really hope this is a sticky baby!! I dont think I can take another loss/negative!!! :)

you dont sound smug at all!!


----------



## raelynn

Congrats mobaby!!


----------



## BrandyRelax

WOW! Congrats MoBaby! I hope it's a sticky bean!


----------



## MoBaby

me too! im very nervous and scared to be excited just yet!!


----------



## Stinas

AHHHHHH YAYYYY MO!!!!!!!
Woohooo!!!!! Super excited!


----------



## BettiS

Congrats MoBaby, that's absolutely AWESOME!!!


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## tigerlily1975

Yay! That's wonderful news, MoBaby! :wohoo:


----------



## silverbell

WannabemomRN said:


> Well here's my disappointing update: DH went for testicular biopsy Tuesday. We received the results yesterday, Sertoli Cell Only. This was the one thing I had prayed it wasn't. I feel horrible for DH. We bawled and squalled together last night, talked about options. Adoption, donor sperm, or be bitter old people. After supper DH abruptly stated he wants to use donor sperm. I'm worried this decision is rash and he hasn't fully thought about the possibility of feeling differently. He states there's nothing else. We're not going to tell anyone that we're using donor sperm, it will be easier that way. This is such a scary journey we are all on. Prayers for everyone.

I'm so sorry, wannabemom. I've been there (as have so many on this thread, unfortunately). :hugs: Don't worry about any decisions made now - you'll both have time to think about it a bit more over the next few days and weeks and you're required to have counselling prior to using donor sperm anyway, so any issues are highlighted. I really think that when you get to the stage of actually using the donor sperm then you're ready - you really can't not be ready to have gotten that far, if that makes sense?



tigerlily1975 said:


> Hello ladies :hi:
> 
> *Silverbell*, how's your IVF cycle going? I'm soooo hopeful for you!
> AFM, we've our appointment Monday evening with Mr Ramsay (as recommended by the lovely Deb!), so I'm trying to think up my list of questions and hope that he agrees that we're good to go next year.. eeeek!!
> 
> Ciao, lovelies!
> 
> C xx

It's OK so far, thanks. I'm on CD6 and been taking my daily Gonal F shots and tomorrow I start the additional shot to stop me ovulating. Scan on Saturday to look at growth and numbers, but last Saturday there appeared to be 8 or 9 follies in total, which is what was expected with my low AMH. 

Deb recommended Mr Ramsay to us too and we met with him last July and again in September and in January this year he performed DH's microTESE. He's lovely and it's just a relief to talk to somebody who completely understands azoo.



MoBaby said:


> Azo girls!!! Guess what finally is happening (well you can see my siggy)!!
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> https://i.imgur.com/qqjSyl.jpg
> 
> dont lose hope!! This has been a hard long journey and we have to make it to beta first before anything (then u/s) but I feel like this is a great sign!! This came up in like 30 seconds (less than a minute for sure) and I am only 9-10 dpo... OMG!! Please stick azo baby!! Beta is not until Nov 30th but I am going to try to get it done next monday instead :happydance:

Massive congratulations! Sending sticky vibes :dust:


----------



## Chickensoup85

Congratulations MoBaby!


----------



## tigerlily1975

silverbell said:


> It's OK so far, thanks. I'm on CD6 and been taking my daily Gonal F shots and tomorrow I start the additional shot to stop me ovulating. Scan on Saturday to look at growth and numbers, but last Saturday there appeared to be 8 or 9 follies in total, which is what was expected with my low AMH.
> 
> Deb recommended Mr Ramsay to us too and we met with him last July and again in September and in January this year he performed DH's microTESE. He's lovely and it's just a relief to talk to somebody who completely understands azoo.

I thought you'd seen him as well. I agree with you completely, for once we didn't have to ask many questions as he covered everything in full before we got the chance! He wants to put DH on medication for three months, so we'll go from there.

Your cycle sounds like it's going great, how are you feeling? That's a fab number of follies. I was told that you're doing really well if you get to 8, so go follies! :happydance:

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## raelynn

Silverbell - Your cycle sounds great! I had a count of 8 follicles before going into ER and ended up with 15 eggs (11 mature) so you should be great! Best of luck!


----------



## silverbell

tigerlily1975 said:


> I thought you'd seen him as well. I agree with you completely, for once we didn't have to ask many questions as he covered everything in full before we got the chance! He wants to put DH on medication for three months, so we'll go from there.
> 
> Your cycle sounds like it's going great, how are you feeling? That's a fab number of follies. I was told that you're doing really well if you get to 8, so go follies! :happydance:
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> C xx




raelynn said:


> Silverbell - Your cycle sounds great! I had a count of 8 follicles before going into ER and ended up with 15 eggs (11 mature) so you should be great! Best of luck!

Oh, wow, thank you both. I had read beforehand that 15 was average, but perhaps this was incorrect. I must say I am pleased with 8. I had expected a very low number due to the AMH and my Consultant seemed very pleased too, so that's good. I just hope they have all grown come Saturday. Tiger - I'm doing OK but am incredibly thirsty, though I was warned about this side effects of the high dose of drug I'm injecting. It'll all be worth it if it works though.

That's good that there's a plan in place, tiger. Deb's husband went on tablets for a while too and we all know how that worked out :flower: Praying it does wonders for your DH.


----------



## SunUp

I just wanted to say how thankful I am for you ladies, through this rough diagnosis you all are continually supportive to each new person who comes in here. While many may not want to be in this group, I certainly have been blessed by it. To those of you that celebrate, Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## Stinas

I agree with sunup!!!

Best ladies ever!


----------



## cbergs

Hey everyone,

So I haven't been in this forum for awhile because after we found zero sperm in my DH's biopsy I pretty much decided that donor sperm was going to be the way we go- so onto the donor sperm forum I went.

Although, especially lately, I definitely don't belong there either. It's not that I don't want to go that route, it's that we haven't even completely accepted our fate and can't make that leap. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to get there...and that scares me.

At Thanksgiving dinner, for some reason my DH's mom had old photos of my husband and his sister growing up. I almost DIED. I cannot bear to look at them, because more than anything in this life I want to raise a little boy that has at least some traits of that of my husband.

I am feeling particularly discouraged because as I have been searching for donors I am realizing that there aren't many matches at all to my husband's ancestry. He looks really Italian, but is also Portuguese and German. I am lucky to find at least one of the three.

I feel like I am dwelling in my sorrows, and can't shake it! I am SO sorry if I am making it worse for anyone else, but I figured that if anyone was going to make me feel better- it'd be you ladies. I would be grateful for any advice, or even a story about how you got through this whole thing. How did your husband's deal? How did you make that transition from "I can't have a baby" to "let's buy sperm and just make a damn baby already!"

Thanks, and lots of love.
~c


----------



## raelynn

cbergs - So sorry you are going through this! I wish I could say it gets easier but nothing about azoospermia is ever easy. I don't think any of us start out thinking that we may not be able to have a child biologically related to both of us. 

It was a very tough decision for us to move to donor sperm, especially since we actually had a successful TESE. We basically hit rock bottom before we made the decision. We got pregnant with IVF and hubby's sperm but had a very early miscarriage which pretty much devastated us. After that, we started tossing around options since we didn't want to go through that again. Hubby ended up finding someone in the neighborhood that he walks the dogs with that went through the same thing. They have 2 children from donor sperm and after that, hubby was a lot more receptive to the idea. I think it helped both of us to find a real life scenario that proved we weren't the only ones that have gone through this and that perfectly wonderful families exist through the use of a donor. Our parents have also all been extremely supportive and the counseling session that was required for donor sperm helped a lot too. I think the main thing that got us moving forward was all the support and especially a real life instance of a family that has done this too.

I think you'll have to work through it together and try to find some form of support. It won't be easy and there are still times where I'm sad knowing the baby won't have hubby's genes but I know it will take after him and we like thinking about the positive (and sometimes annoying) things that our little one will pick up from its father. Good luck!


----------



## rdleela

Hi, ladies, I've been boring lately and haven't been logging on, just going through the motions over here, working hard and trying to not focus on all this stuff!

Congrats to MoBaby! And good luck Silverbell!

Cbergs and WannabemomRN, sorry to hear you're going through rough times, and hoping you pull through tougher than ever!

I found a Podcast called "Bitter Infertiles" that I thought everyone might like! Only listened to the first two episodes so far; not much talk on male factor infertility (yet) but it is SOOO nice to hear these ladies talking about not going to baby showers and hating facebook and stuff! It's like sitting around having coffee with my friends, but friends who ACTUALLY understand it all!

They shared something cool, an add-on that blocks baby pictures from your newsfeed! lol, I haven't tried it, but here is the link: https://unbaby.me/

Hope everyone else is doing well!


----------



## BumpHopes

Hi all, not posted in a while just wanted to see how everyone is getting on. 

Sorry to those who are having a hard time. I know how hard it is. 

Great to see so many people with successes and preg tickers. 

Such a short post just wanted to wish everyone all the best and i will keep popping by :)


----------



## MoBaby

rdleela: I may have to sneak a listen to those podcasts!!! 
HI bumphopes!
Cbergs: :HUGS: Sorry you are struggling so much. Azo stinks and I wish no one would ever have to go through this. If they can make women ovulate (even super ovulate) then why can't there be a magic pill or shot or anything that can make me have super sperm???? I don't get it! Maybe all us azo girls should start some huge research project or something and find a cure! That would be amazing. :( Hope you are able to get to the place where you need to be soon. It is hard this time of the year for sure. I think raelynn's advice was very good. I wish I had some more words of encouragement to give you.
Silverbell: must be getting close to ER now! when is that scheduled??? 8 or 9 sounds great!!


----------



## BumpHopes

I agree MoBaby! We could all club together!


----------



## silverbell

cbergs said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> So I haven't been in this forum for awhile because after we found zero sperm in my DH's biopsy I pretty much decided that donor sperm was going to be the way we go- so onto the donor sperm forum I went.
> 
> Although, especially lately, I definitely don't belong there either. It's not that I don't want to go that route, it's that we haven't even completely accepted our fate and can't make that leap. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to get there...and that scares me.
> 
> At Thanksgiving dinner, for some reason my DH's mom had old photos of my husband and his sister growing up. I almost DIED. I cannot bear to look at them, because more than anything in this life I want to raise a little boy that has at least some traits of that of my husband.
> 
> I am feeling particularly discouraged because as I have been searching for donors I am realizing that there aren't many matches at all to my husband's ancestry. He looks really Italian, but is also Portuguese and German. I am lucky to find at least one of the three.
> 
> I feel like I am dwelling in my sorrows, and can't shake it! I am SO sorry if I am making it worse for anyone else, but I figured that if anyone was going to make me feel better- it'd be you ladies. I would be grateful for any advice, or even a story about how you got through this whole thing. How did your husband's deal? How did you make that transition from "I can't have a baby" to "let's buy sperm and just make a damn baby already!"
> 
> Thanks, and lots of love.
> ~c

cbergs, I'm sorry you're finding it so tough. I don't think there's an easy answer and every single couple is different. There was only a few weeks between us getting DH's zero sperm biopsy result and starting our first DIUI, but I know that's too quick for some people. For us we'd already accepted that the biopsy was likely to show zero sperm (we'd been given a 5% chance) and we'd waited over 4 months on the waiting list for it, so we had had quite some time to start accepting it and talking things through.

I don't think making the decision to use donor sperm is ever an easy one for anybody, no matter what the circumstances, for the very reasons you mention. 

It still breaks my heart to be honest, but it really is our only option of experiencing pregnancy, birth and a newborn, which is what we'd always wanted and imagined. I - like all other women using donor sperm - have had to let go of the fact that any child will not have DH's genes. However, I firmly believe that he or she will pick up quite a bit of DH's personality and traits, which for me personally is far more important than whether they have the same skin tone or eye colour. But saying all that, because DH's azoospermia is a direct result of having a genetic disorder I must say we don't think too highly of genes these days.

It really is a period of mourning and grief you're going to have to work through until you feel ready to move on. What you're feeling is entirely normal and understandable - you're grieving for the biological child your DH can never give you and that's an incredibly horrific thing for anybody to deal with. Sending you millions of :hugs:



MoBaby said:


> rdleela: I may have to sneak a listen to those podcasts!!!
> HI bumphopes!
> Cbergs: :HUGS: Sorry you are struggling so much. Azo stinks and I wish no one would ever have to go through this. If they can make women ovulate (even super ovulate) then why can't there be a magic pill or shot or anything that can make me have super sperm???? I don't get it! Maybe all us azo girls should start some huge research project or something and find a cure! That would be amazing. :( Hope you are able to get to the place where you need to be soon. It is hard this time of the year for sure. I think raelynn's advice was very good. I wish I had some more words of encouragement to give you.
> Silverbell: must be getting close to ER now! when is that scheduled??? 8 or 9 sounds great!!

MoBaby - they're actually working on trying to produce sperm from cells right now. There was a report mentioned on here last year I think. They've managed to create some very basic sperm cells from mouse cells if I remember correctly. But they're still a good while off doing it for men yet. Unfortunately not in my reproductive time period, but it does warm my heart to think they might be able to do this in the future for all those dealing with azoospermia and other sperm issues.

EDIT: Just found this and looks like a US scientist is hoping for this to happen sooner - I really hope he's successful: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19879113

I had my CD12 scan today and all going well. ER is 99% probably going to be this Friday (will find out for sure on Wednesday's scan) and it looks like I may have 10, all being well.



BumpHopes said:


> Hi all, not posted in a while just wanted to see how everyone is getting on.
> 
> Sorry to those who are having a hard time. I know how hard it is.
> 
> Great to see so many people with successes and preg tickers.
> 
> Such a short post just wanted to wish everyone all the best and i will keep popping by :)

BumpHopes - just wanted to say congrats on stopping smoking :happydance:


----------



## raelynn

Good luck silverbell! Hope ER goes well for you!


----------



## MoBaby

My beta today: 379!!!!!!! :) 16dpo..... YAY!!! We made an azo baby :)


----------



## raelynn

Mobaby - So so very happy for you!!! Congrats!!


----------



## WannabemomRN

cbergs said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> So I haven't been in this forum for awhile because after we found zero sperm in my DH's biopsy I pretty much decided that donor sperm was going to be the way we go- so onto the donor sperm forum I went.
> 
> Although, especially lately, I definitely don't belong there either. It's not that I don't want to go that route, it's that we haven't even completely accepted our fate and can't make that leap. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to get there...and that scares me.
> 
> At Thanksgiving dinner, for some reason my DH's mom had old photos of my husband and his sister growing up. I almost DIED. I cannot bear to look at them, because more than anything in this life I want to raise a little boy that has at least some traits of that of my husband.
> 
> I am feeling particularly discouraged because as I have been searching for donors I am realizing that there aren't many matches at all to my husband's ancestry. He looks really Italian, but is also Portuguese and German. I am lucky to find at least one of the three.
> 
> I feel like I am dwelling in my sorrows, and can't shake it! I am SO sorry if I am making it worse for anyone else, but I figured that if anyone was going to make me feel better- it'd be you ladies. I would be grateful for any advice, or even a story about how you got through this whole thing. How did your husband's deal? How did you make that transition from "I can't have a baby" to "let's buy sperm and just make a damn baby already!"
> 
> Thanks, and lots of love.
> ~c


I am in the same spot that you are. My DH is prepared and suggested the donor. I thought that was what I wanted, but the more I think about it I'm having my doubts. I want to have my husband's baby, not just any baby. I don't know how to overcome that. It's so hard to give up and go to plan B on something so many people can do just by mistake. Today has been the roughest day I've had for a little while. Just can't take it. Facebook just pisses me off, people complaining about their kids. Well at least they have them!! I'm just so frustrated, bitter, and deeply saddened by this :sad1:. How did you girls decide on DS? Congrats to Mobaby and the others popping up with +++++:hugs:


----------



## silverbell

Congrats, Mo :happydance:

Wannabe - I answered that question on the last page (but you have probably already seen my response). It's an incredibly difficult decision and not one that can ever be made lightly. Good luck to you both.


AFM I had my scan today and ER is going to be Friday. It looks like I have 7 follies of the same size that are ready to go at the moment (I have low AMH so was to be expected). ET likely to be Monday. Just praying they're all good quality eggs.


----------



## BrandyRelax

WannabemomRN said:


> cbergs said:
> 
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> So I haven't been in this forum for awhile because after we found zero sperm in my DH's biopsy I pretty much decided that donor sperm was going to be the way we go- so onto the donor sperm forum I went.
> 
> Although, especially lately, I definitely don't belong there either. It's not that I don't want to go that route, it's that we haven't even completely accepted our fate and can't make that leap. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to get there...and that scares me.
> 
> At Thanksgiving dinner, for some reason my DH's mom had old photos of my husband and his sister growing up. I almost DIED. I cannot bear to look at them, because more than anything in this life I want to raise a little boy that has at least some traits of that of my husband.
> 
> I am feeling particularly discouraged because as I have been searching for donors I am realizing that there aren't many matches at all to my husband's ancestry. He looks really Italian, but is also Portuguese and German. I am lucky to find at least one of the three.
> 
> I feel like I am dwelling in my sorrows, and can't shake it! I am SO sorry if I am making it worse for anyone else, but I figured that if anyone was going to make me feel better- it'd be you ladies. I would be grateful for any advice, or even a story about how you got through this whole thing. How did your husband's deal? How did you make that transition from "I can't have a baby" to "let's buy sperm and just make a damn baby already!"
> 
> Thanks, and lots of love.
> ~c
> 
> 
> I am in the same spot that you are. My DH is prepared and suggested the donor. I thought that was what I wanted, but the more I think about it I'm having my doubts. I want to have my husband's baby, not just any baby. I don't know how to overcome that. It's so hard to give up and go to plan B on something so many people can do just by mistake. Today has been the roughest day I've had for a little while. Just can't take it. Facebook just pisses me off, people complaining about their kids. Well at least they have them!! I'm just so frustrated, bitter, and deeply saddened by this :sad1:. How did you girls decide on DS? Congrats to Mobaby and the others popping up with +++++:hugs:Click to expand...

I don't have an answer, but I agree, it's a very hard question. The question I keep asking, is do I want to be a mom or do I just want to be a mom to DH's kids? I got "Helping the Stork" out from my local library and have started reading it. Some have said it helps, I'm still in the early stages of the book, so really can't say. We're still waiting for the mTESE, currently scheduled for March 5, 2013, but given high LH (16) and high FSH (39), I'm feeling that we're not going to find any sperm, so I need to start preparing myself and knowing what my next steps are, so that I'm not crushed when I get the results. This thread has been invaluable to helping me see options and perspectives I wouldn't have seen without you all! :)

Brandy


----------



## snd80

Congrats to Mo and any others I haven't congratulated on their :bfp:!!!! :happydance:

Sorry I have been AWOL, but limbo land just plain sucks!!!! :cry: I don't quite know where I fit in at the moment... but know that I have been cheering you all along quietly from the sidelines! The holiday's aren't helping either; another childless time of the year for me. I'm just ready for this year to be over already, just like last year!

As for the girls asking on deciding on DS, for me, it was never a problem. It took a minute for my hubby to get on board, but in the end we both know it will be HIS baby, blood or not, and that is all that matters!!!! 

:hugs: to each of you and I will try to be a better cheerleader from now on!


----------



## Stinas

Silverbell - good luck friday!


----------



## SunUp

Hugs CBergs and SND!!! Glad to see you on here.


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## deafgal01

So glad to pop in here and see some pregnant azo ladies!!! You all give us hope one way or another regardless of where the sperms come from (whether it be donor or your hubby's).

Wish I could listen to the podcasts. I checked and no captions so not sure how much I'd understand. I don't know where to find the transcript for the podcasts either.

I have been hiding in my little corner and being withdrawn. Like one lady already said, the upcoming holidays are harder to deal with when one is in this boat and stuck in limbo. My finances have not been progressing as i planned for it to be, still trying to reach the 1/5 goal of money saved for iui and I should have about 2/5 saved by now but nope, got behind. No idea if that will push iui back a bit or not. We will see next year. Then again if both dh and I work extra jobs, we might reach the goal and not need to push iui back. Guess I will reassess where we are with that when the time comes. I still need to select some donors and do my blood screening anyways before we can do iui.

Donors- cbergs I still have days where I'm not sure but think I'm still getting used to the idea. Look at it this way- half adoption? Baby has your genes and will adopt hubby's personality. Think in the end after everything, a baby still becomes your baby one way or another regardless of whose genes made the baby.


----------



## silverbell

deafgal01 said:


> Donors- cbergs I still have days where I'm not sure but think I'm still getting used to the idea. Look at it this way- half adoption? Baby has your genes and will adopt hubby's personality. Think in the end after everything, a baby still becomes your baby one way or another regardless of whose genes made the baby.

Definitely agree with this, particularly the last sentence :thumbup:

So sorry you're feeling down and SND too :nope: I hope the rest of the year whizzes by for you both and you're soon back on the TTC wagon. I know how tough it is to get this far and then be back to WTT again and knowing you can't possibly get pregnant in the meantime. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


----------



## MoBaby

Gl tomorrow silver bell!!!!


----------



## SunUp

Cbergs - 
I try not to overload BFP stuff in here, since I KNOW how difficult this journey really is. I totally understand where you are coming from, and with DS there are always days where one, of course, wishes things were different. But, DH is as excited as humanly possible for this baby. He will be an amazing father, and we are thankful to an anonymous person who helped us along our journey. But seeing OUR baby moving and kicking around the screen, knowing he (or she) will know my voice and DH's voice by birth, all the prepping my DH is doing for this baby, those are things only a true father gets to do. I am so happy to be making him a Daddy. It might not be as ideal as wonderful fairy tale's suggest, but its OUR miracle, none-the-less. Our happily ever after. I will say it was hard on us to decide but totally worth it, now. I will keep praying for you. Just know that even if DS isn't right for you, there are options out there (embryo adoption, adoption, fostering) and we are all here for you no matter what. For me, DS was the best of all the options (including not being parents) because we knew we wanted children, and this way DH and I could make all the parenting decisions, from day one, ourselves. Still praying for you as I know this journey is a difficult one!

SND - So sorry, I know limbo land is NO fun!

DG - Hoping the savings come along so you can be a mommy-to-be by this time next year (fingers crossed!)

SB- SO excited for you and praying this is your time!!!


----------



## Chickensoup85

Hello,

We had our 2nd urology appointment today. They found a blockage (a cyst) but also said there is a problem with production so both obstructive and non obstructive. Has anyone ever heard of this? Urologist thought the cyst could be causing the NOA somehow. He also said there was a 50-60% chance of finding anything with a sperm retrieval. I came away thrilled because it could have been so much worse but DH is really upset because he has blocked it out so much he never really believed we would need IVF. 

Having said all this, I didn't really trust the urologist as he had an air of "used car salesman" about him! DH felt the same and wants a second opinion. Unfortunately the chromosone analysis results had not come in.

I hope everyone is ok.


----------



## Chickensoup85

Being under the approved age for fertility treatment in Berkshire, we have decided to go for private fertility treatment for the sperm retrieval and Ivf but have a couple of questions.

Can you use 2 different clinics? One for the retrieval and one for the IVF? The urologist we are seeing seems to specialise in azoospermia and retrieval so would like to use him for that part but wouldn't want to use his clinic for the next part.

Also, how do you go about finding a good clinic? How local would you go with travel time etc? How frequently do you have to go?

Should you take time off work for it all?

Sorry for all the questions, just feel a bit lost and don't really know what to do or where we go from here!

Thanks


----------



## Deb111

Im sure its possible to use 2 clinics - i guess the main issue is getting the sperm from one to the other. There may be extra costs involved?

As for closeness of clinic - i wouldnt go too far but then reputation is more important. You can look at clinic info online - i will find link for you. In terms of scans - youre probably looking at between 3 and 5 plus egg collection plus transfer so it all adds up


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## Deb111

Website is guide.hfea.gov.uk/


----------



## cbergs

You ladies are the best, thanks for all the great advice! It has been a bit easier the past week or so. Our counselor is amazing, and totally helps us look on the bright side of things. We're relaxing through the holidays, then we'll start the DS process early next year. 

I am cheering you all on, and am SO happy to see all the +++ on here!

Happy Holidays everyone!

<3C


----------



## Stinas

Chickensoup85 - Hi!! Our DH's can be twins! They found a cyst in my DH's prostate, which our urologist thought was causing the blockage. All DH's blood work came out normal as well as everything else they normally test for in this case...I forgot all the exact testing he has done, but everything was normal. When we did the TESE thats when the urologist found a couple sperm and figured it was a production issue. He wanted him to go on clomid right away and do another TESE, but we decided to use whatever sperm was found during the first TESE. First round of IVF was a BFN, we got one :cold: and continued with a FET which also resulted in BFN. Doc thinks its due to the sperm, which is not surprising. 
DH is now on clomid once a week for a month, this week is his last pill then next week he has a check up to see whats next.


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thanks for the info Deb111. I'll have a look into that.

Stinas, it's great to hear from someone with similar issues! When will you find out if the clomid is effective? Have they removed the cyst? Good luck for the check up! Are they hoping for better quality sperm for another round of IVF, or to kick start for possible natural conception? Sorry of that's a stupid question! 

How do you cope with people getting pregnant around you? Just found out a second person at work is pregnant and they a due within a couple if weeks of each other. It's not too bad at the mo because they haven't announced it, but I'm dreading all the baby talk and "you'll be next's" when they do. :(


----------



## rdleela

Unfortunately, I don't know if you ever learn how to cope with all the pregnant girls around you. I've been dealing with azoos since last January (can't f'en believe it'll be a year soon) and I still feel like someone punched me in the gut everytime I hear of another pregnancy. I pretty much totally avoid facebook, and I avoid pregnant girls and baby showers and all that stuff as much as possible. Then you get depressed b/c you can feel yourself pulling away and isolating yourself.

A very good friend that I work with got pregnant (first month of BC) last January, right after I found out about azoos for us. She was great and told me she was preggo right away (she's been the most supportive!) BUT the absolute worst part was 3 months later when she was showing and telling people, that month was SOOOO painful, hearing everyone else shriek in absolute joy for her, was the hardest thing ever. Many times I could barely stop myself from crying and ran to the bathroom. It's NOT easy, and doesn't get much easier, just DO NOT FEEL GUILTY for feeling this way. ALLOW yourself to feel this way, it's normal. You are not upset that they are pregnant, you are upset that you AREN'T pregnant. Cry your guts out and talk to people who truly support you!!! Surround yourself with people who are willing to listen - they might even be pregnant people! lol You just don't want to be around when they tell other people!


----------



## Stinas

Chickensoup - DH has an apt at the end of the month.....so I am guessing he will take more blood work then? I dont really know how he will see if it was effective. DH just called the doc for the prescription...the doc had said when we want to do it just to call. I am guessing he will find out more when he visits him. 
They will not remove the cyst....doc said he was probably born with it. There is no need to worry about it and it will not cause any harm in the future. I have decided he should still get it checked every so often....better safe than sorry I believe. 
Doc is hoping it will kick start his production....so more sperm when doing TESE. When I asked him if this will help them come out naturally, he said he highly doubts it, but a little hope wont hurt I guess. Its not a stupid question.....I asked it!
Its hard seeing people around me get pregnant too....its just natural to feel this way. I tend to find myself thinking "why me?" "what did we do to deserve this?"...etc. It is what it is at this point. Everything happens for a reason I guess. You cant torture yourself about it all. Easier said than done, but its just not healthy to lose yourself in this madness! We are healthy and thats what really matters.


----------



## BettiS

Well girls, today is D day! Our appointment at the FC is in 5 hours...

I don't know whether to stress about it or be excited. I can't help but be scared since we have had SOOO much bad news over the past 4 months and another bad tiding will be devastating. I wish we could get good news regarding TTC just ONCE!

Will post again tomorrow to tell you about the appointment.


----------



## Soili

Betti, good luck with your appointment!! I hope there will be something reassuring for you to hear! FX!!


----------



## Soili

rdleela, I get by just avoiding thinking about pregnancies and such ;) 

In the beginning the whole thing about some girls getting pregnant first month off the pill was really tough to deal with. But since I've learned that for every case like that there's another where the couple have tried for years and another where the baby came from IVF, it got much better for me to handle. It might be weird, but hearing about other people going through tough times with TTC is making me feel less like an exception to rule. I absolutely do not wish TTC struggles on anyone! In ideal word, we all should get pregnant as soon as we decide that we're ready. And no one should get pregnant, if they don't wish too. But heck, it doesn't work like that. So I'm just eternally grateful for the internet and being able to reach out for support :)


----------



## deafgal01

Betti- good luck! :hugs: thinking of you with the appt today.

As for the how to deal with excited pregnant chatter, I have my good and bad days. There are occasions I turn down going to a shower cuz I don't want to be reminded of our difficult journey right now and like others have said I cry/get upset because I haven't gotten pregnant yet (not because they are pregnant). I avoid it a lot.

As for talks of people saying "you're next" - I just politely nod my head because our time will eventually come and they will be just as excited when it does happen. To some (like family members and friends who ask when I am having a baby), I just say oh it's up to God, I'm ready whenever it's time. Just waiting on Him (point to sky).

Any of you notice your faith wavers in this journey? Mine definitely has- I have days when I am angry and say why me? And then I have other days I hope for a stupid miracle that I know will never happen unless I get a dr's help.


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thank you for your replies. I feel better knowing its normal to feel like ths and not me being completely unreasonable, selfish and nasty. You're right, it's not that I'm not happy for them, it's that I'm sad for myself. OH doesn't get that; he doesn't understand why it should effect me at all! Still, least we have each other to talk to!

Betti, I hope all went well today and you received some good news!


----------



## BettiS

Hey ladies

So yesterday went fine, FS is REALLY nice! He felt DH's testes and did an internal ultrasound on me, and asked us EVERYTHING about my cycle and DH's childhood, puberty, whether he grows a full beard and how often he has to shave, etc. He says I'm ovulating beautifully and he showed me a follicle and a corpus luteum that I could actually see clearly (I couldn't see it with my OB in July at all although my OB said it was there...maybe the FS's ultrasound machine is better).

He recommended a testicular biopsy asap and since we can't afford it right now we'll be doing it in March / April. In the meantime, DH is now on special vitamins to try to maximize production if there is any. He felt DH's testes while I was undressing for the U/S and then came to me while DH waited. 

While alone with me FS said that unfortunately DH's testes were much smaller than normal and that the chances of finding sperm are slightly lower than with some other patients he's had. He then spoke to me about donor sperm, and then when we joined DH we also discussed it a little bit. However, the FS assured us that he would do EVERYTHING in his power to help us conceive a biological child.

DH was very down in the dumps for a while after the appointment but we talked about it and decided to put on our battle armour and fight this war with everything we've got. Sooo...IF they find sperm in March/April they will freeze it and we'll probably only be able to do ICSI towards the end of next year or the start of 2014. So here's to waiting...


----------



## deafgal01

That is progress Betti! Hope you are able to get the dreams of having dh's biological child!


----------



## BettiS

PS.

The ladies who did dIUI:

Are you telling anyone (e.g. the family)? Are you keeping the fact that you used donor sperm a secret? Would you tell your child one day?


----------



## silverbell

rdleela said:


> Unfortunately, I don't know if you ever learn how to cope with all the pregnant girls around you. I've been dealing with azoos since last January (can't f'en believe it'll be a year soon) and I still feel like someone punched me in the gut everytime I hear of another pregnancy. I pretty much totally avoid facebook, and I avoid pregnant girls and baby showers and all that stuff as much as possible. Then you get depressed b/c you can feel yourself pulling away and isolating yourself.

I couldn't agree with this more. It's been 1.5 years since we found out about DH's azoo and 11 months since we found out he doesn't produce any sperm at all (biopsy results) and it's still difficult. In a way I've found it more difficult the longer it goes on. I feel very left behind and very sad and incredibly jealous and I'm just not a jealous person normally. I've had to hide all the ladies with young children on my FB for the time being as every time I went on I was just inundated with pictures of these gorgeous children and babies and although they melted my heart they really weren't helping me feel any better. It's such a difficult thing to go through and I don't think you would be normal if you didn't react in this way to other people's pregnancies. Life seems incredibly unfair when so many around you are able to do something so seemingly easily and naturally. :hugs:



BettiS said:


> While alone with me FS said that unfortunately DH's testes were much smaller than normal and that the chances of finding sperm are slightly lower than with some other patients he's had. He then spoke to me about donor sperm, and then when we joined DH we also discussed it a little bit. However, the FS assured us that he would do EVERYTHING in his power to help us conceive a biological child.
> 
> DH was very down in the dumps for a while after the appointment but we talked about it and decided to put on our battle armour and fight this war with everything we've got. Sooo...IF they find sperm in March/April they will freeze it and we'll probably only be able to do ICSI towards the end of next year or the start of 2014. So here's to waiting...

I must say it's nice that the FS didn't come out and tell your DH he has small testes. Ours did :dohh: Talk about a knock to a guy's confidence. On top of the worries we had due to the 0 SA he then started feeling physically inadequate and that he wasn't like other men. It sounds like you have a good FS there and I do hope you're able to conceive biologically together in the future.



BettiS said:


> PS.
> 
> The ladies who did dIUI:
> 
> Are you telling anyone (e.g. the family)? Are you keeping the fact that you used donor sperm a secret? Would you tell your child one day?

As soon as we decided we were going to go for donor sperm if DH's biopsy showed 0 sperm, we told both sets of parents and our siblings. We didn't want to feel we had anything to hide or be ashamed of and we also didn't want to 'spring' it on them one day. We wanted them to be prepared and perhaps to understand the difficult journey we were going through and would continue to go through. They were all incredibly supportive. Should IVF work for us (IUIs didn't, unfortunately) then we shall certainly be telling our children right from the start. We want to be open and honest and for them to just grow up thinking it's normal rather than finding out later in life or by accident. It's a very, very personal thing though and not every couple will feel the same. You need to do what's right for the 2 of you. You will both have to have a counselling session prior to using donor sperm and this can be a time to discuss any issues or concerns, as well as thinking about things you might not have thought about before (such as the fact that your child may have 10 half-siblings or more out there in the world).

This site is really useful: https://www.dcnetwork.org/


----------



## Chickensoup85

> While alone with me FS said that unfortunately DH's testes were much smaller than normal and that the chances of finding sperm are slightly lower than with some other patients he's had. He then spoke to me about donor sperm, and then when we joined DH we also discussed it a little bit. However, the FS assured us that he would do EVERYTHING in his power to help us conceive a biological child.

This is interesting as OH was told the same but we were never told the implications of this! OH wouldnt let me come to the initial appointment so I wasn't there to ask.


----------



## Chickensoup85

Found this book on pinterest, not only is it a first hand account of an infertilty couple, but an azoospermia couple! I am way more excited about this than I should be! Has anyone read it? I am going to order it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Babies-Hard-Way-Infertility/dp/1843104636/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## silverbell

Chickensoup85 said:


> Found this book on pinterest, not only is it a first hand account of an infertilty couple, but an azoospermia couple! I am way more excited about this than I should be! Has anyone read it? I am going to order it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Babies-Hard-Way-Infertility/dp/1843104636/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I have read it. I wouldn't say it was amazing. I found it interesting when I first found out about DH. It involves a lot of the emotional side of what the woman was going through and that she needed counselling etc. If I remember rightly I didn't find myself 'warming' to the author - I found her a bit cold and self-centred ... but it could just be me and I could be mistaken as it was a while ago that I read it now.


----------



## BettiS

Hi girls

Just thought I'd share this. Totally how many of us are feeling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqfGqOx2iDQ

By the way, I am 5 days late on my normal cycle length and it's driving me crazy! Just wish AF would come and stop taunting me!!!


----------



## Shellvz

BettiS said:


> Hi girls
> 
> Just thought I'd share this. Totally how many of us are feeling.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqfGqOx2iDQ
> 
> By the way, I am 5 days late on my normal cycle length and it's driving me crazy! Just wish AF would come and stop taunting me!!!

I totally feel like that. Very moved by that clip. I try not to think about it but my tears betrayed the deep pain lurking below the surface.

We have our first appt with IVF specialist on Monday. Not sure what to expect or hope for.

Feeling tired of all the waiting and the hoping followed each month by the painful reminder that we are not conceiving.


----------



## deafgal01

Shellvz - good luck at the appt!


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi everyone! I've been on a break between my failed dIUI cycle in October..

Silverbell- Your post on the top of this page really resonated with me. I could have wrote it myself, minus the mTESE part.

I need to read back to see where everyone is. I'm feeling much clearer again and we have had yet another change of plans since I was here. This damn IF rollercoaster is always catching me off guard.

I've been swimming laps every other day since the new indoor pool in my town has opened. I had no idea how much the exercise would help my anxiety. I finally got to see the RE again this week after a 7 week wait. He pretty much said not to waste our money on donor IUIs since the injectables I will need will be so expensive for each attempt. We are re-doing our expired blood work in Dec, starting the BCP in Jan and hopefully doing our IVF in February. The shocking part? They told us with donor sperm, we would need to do ICSI, which floored us. Since we have to do that, we thought we would also throw in the TESA too. If we're lucky to find sperm, we'll use DH's but since we already have donor sperm waiting there for us, we'll just it as a back up. It's going to cost a small fortune, but we have to try all of this once before thinking about moving on.

We're truly back at square one where we were months and months ago. So frustrating, but I am finally relieved to know we are moving forward yet again. 

I'm going to read back now and see how you all have been. You've been on my mind again, especially since we have started thinking about our Azoo again.


----------



## MoBaby

Wow cm! What a roller coaster! Sorry for being back at square one but sounds like you guys have a good plan and if they can use dh speem that would be even better!! Glad you are moving forwar very soon!!


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## BrandyRelax

CanadianMaple said:


> Hi everyone! I've been on a break between my failed dIUI cycle in October..
> 
> Silverbell- Your post on the top of this page really resonated with me. I could have wrote it myself, minus the mTESE part.
> 
> I need to read back to see where everyone is. I'm feeling much clearer again and we have had yet another change of plans since I was here. This damn IF rollercoaster is always catching me off guard.
> 
> I've been swimming laps every other day since the new indoor pool in my town has opened. I had no idea how much the exercise would help my anxiety. I finally got to see the RE again this week after a 7 week wait. He pretty much said not to waste our money on donor IUIs since the injectables I will need will be so expensive for each attempt. We are re-doing our expired blood work in Dec, starting the BCP in Jan and hopefully doing our IVF in February. The shocking part? They told us with donor sperm, we would need to do ICSI, which floored us. Since we have to do that, we thought we would also throw in the TESA too. If we're lucky to find sperm, we'll use DH's but since we already have donor sperm waiting there for us, we'll just it as a back up. It's going to cost a small fortune, but we have to try all of this once before thinking about moving on.
> 
> We're truly back at square one where we were months and months ago. So frustrating, but I am finally relieved to know we are moving forward yet again.
> 
> I'm going to read back now and see how you all have been. You've been on my mind again, especially since we have started thinking about our Azoo again.

I'm so happy that you're doing a TESA!! Have you guys set a date for the surgery? Our surgeon had a 3 month wait for surgery, so we have a date, but lots of waiting still.

I'm sending positive thoughts your way, and hope everything goes according to plan.

I believe everything happens for a reason, and perhaps your failed dIUI cycle happened because you were meant to have your husband's baby afterall!

Brandy


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## Shellvz

Discovered this morning that I am much more emotional than I thought.

Church Christmas items today and i cried through every kids item (starting with the baby & toddler group).

I couldn't stop the tears from flowing and just wanted to put my head down and howl.

Probably didn't help that today is the 17th anniversary of my mothers death.

Emotional day!

Tomorrow our appt with FS...


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## Shellvz

Dr advised our only option is IVF. He has ruled out falling pregnant naturally or insemination and we have ruled out donor sperm.

He gave us the IVF sales pitch - as expected but there are so many variables: expense, hormone injections, tests & surgical procedures for both of us. Plus the ethical dilemmas of embryo's.

Sigh!


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## deafgal01

Oh shell :hugs: :flower: take the time to process this. I understand about feeling emotional.


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## BettiS

Hey Shell

I know EXACTLY how you feel, as do most of the women on this thread. It takes time to accept the situation. We heard just about 3 months ago that ICSI would be our ONLY chance (if any) at a biological child and although, some days, I feel like I've gotten through the worst, I still have days when I just can't help crying like a baby because we have been dealt this FOUL hand of cards in life.

DH still believes with all his heart that God will give us a baby naturally. I admire his faith but I find it difficult to have any myself. This diagnosis has really put a wedge between me and God...only now, some days, I feel like I'm inching back towards Him.


----------



## silverbell

Thanks so much for sharing the video, BettiS. Really touched by this song and the pictures. You're right - it is totally how many of us are feeling :hugs:

CM - great to see you back. I can't believe that your clinic insist on ICSI with donor sperm??? WTF is that all about? :shrug: I'm so sorry you're back to square one ... but pleased that you have a plan all the same. Hopefully it won't be long now until you get that :bfp: and however it comes it will all have been worth it :hugs:

Shell, I'm sorry about your news. Take time to process it all. :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

Shell, take the time to process it. It's such a difficult journey. We thought we were finally on an easier path once we chose a donor and were hoping to get away with donor IUI. Now we're on to IVF with ICSI whether we use a donor or not. So unfair. The funny thing is, we have had all this time to process our options and we'll do whatever we need to. I just want to do our attempt and then get off this rollercoaster either way.

Silverbell- I was thinking they were crazy, but the more I read, the more common it's becoming. Their theory is that the sperm has been frozen and may not do as good of a job. Since we'll be paying close to $12,000, I have accepted it. I'll do whatever they need to do to make this work.

Betti- I have a very Catholic MIL. She keeps sending DH bible verses and keeps talking about the virgin Mary and how she just knows we are going to get pregnant naturally. She was very accepting of us using a donor, but then will throw in that which makes us think that she hasn't really accepted it as much as she thinks she has. DH had to get blunt with her and tell her that if we conceived naturally, it would be a miracle, but we are not going to sit around and wait for one. She has seemed a bit better, but doesn't understand why we would "waste all this money" on fertility treatments.

AFM- I just had 13 vials of blood taken today toward my IVF cycle. I go back on Friday for my cd7 tests, then again on Dec 27th. I can't wait until they have my mock transfer scheduled and I can start the pill. I want to get this show on the road!


----------



## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> Silverbell- I was thinking they were crazy, but the more I read, the more common it's becoming. Their theory is that the sperm has been frozen and may not do as good of a job. Since we'll be paying close to $12,000, I have accepted it. I'll do whatever they need to do to make this work.

See, I don't get that. Because with IVF they'll only put in fertilised embryos. Meaning the sperm has already done its job! Very confusing. But like you say you'll just do whatever you need to to get the show on the road and I don't blame you. :hugs:


----------



## Chickensoup85

Shell, we've just been told IVF with icsi is our only option (provided they find something during the sperm retrieval) but that is the news I was expecting so don't feel I know anything new.

Come away from my gyno appointment so angry, irrationally probably. They were running so behind I had to wait over an hour. Once we were in all I got was, I'm going to refer you for an ultra sound to check for fibroids or polyps.

Could they not have told me that over letter? About 6 weeks ago when the appointment was booked? Thats another month and a half down the drain. To top it off, because it was such a long wait, I was too late to call back the sperm retrieval people and get that sorted! Grrrr! Sorry for the moan :(


----------



## Shellvz

Hi Ladies,

Thank you so much for your kind words, encouragement and support. I have decided to take a break from all things ttc while we pray and decide our future. 

I need to stop for my own sanity. Checking on this thread has been helpful but is becoming more painful as we face our future - potentially childless.

I wish everyone all the best and hope that you all receive the child of your hearts.

God bless,

Shell


----------



## CanadianMaple

Shell, I've taken two breaks. It was the best thing I had done during this past year. You will come back stronger. I found it difficult to be always thinking about azoo and trying to support others when I was barely even keeping it together myself. Please know that this group is always here to support you, even if it's just a quick check-in.


----------



## CanadianMaple

silverbell said:


> CanadianMaple said:
> 
> 
> Silverbell- I was thinking they were crazy, but the more I read, the more common it's becoming. Their theory is that the sperm has been frozen and may not do as good of a job. Since we'll be paying close to $12,000, I have accepted it. I'll do whatever they need to do to make this work.
> 
> See, I don't get that. Because with IVF they'll only put in fertilised embryos. Meaning the sperm has already done its job! Very confusing. But like you say you'll just do whatever you need to to get the show on the road and I don't blame you. :hugs:Click to expand...

They are more worried that the frozen sperm will not fertilize enough of them and want to make sure that every egg gets its chance. I guess it's not as uncommon as I thought, I posted a question about it on another IVF site and more than half of them did ICSI with DS. I was totally floored but definitely don't want to see an IVF cycle with a crappy fertilization report.

Deb- If you're still checking in, can you change my info on the front page. You can say that I have been dx with PCOS and we are moving on the IVF/ICSI with DH getting TESA. We'll have a donor backup. IVF/ICSI/TESA in Feb 2013.


----------



## Stinas

Hi ladies!!
Thought I would give an update since DH went to the urologist today. 
He has been on clomid once a week for a month now. Doc says he really thinks having the original procedure he suggested to us is the way to go. He is pretty confident that the cyst is causing the blockage, especially since he did find some sperm during the TESE. He wants to go in from the tip and scrape basically a "tunnel" for the sperm to go under the cyst and out. He says we would be able to see sperm in a week. DH will continue taking the clomid to improve the sperm and help make more. 
When this was first brought up to us we were more scared than anything. The risks are leakage from the penis as well as anus....but its a very very small percentage. It freaked us out so we opted out of it. The doc told DH he has done a ton of them with out complications. 
I think at this point its more logical for us to try it. We pay for IVF out of pocket, so its worth trying this surgery since its actually covered and has a good chance of making us have a baby the old fashioned way. 
Im scared, excited, and nervous. I dont want to get my hopes up, because this year has been hell....i am hoping this could be our clean slate, a new fresh year. 
Has anyone done this kind of surgery? I forget the name.....I didnt go to the doc with DH.


----------



## silverbell

CanadianMaple said:


> They are more worried that the frozen sperm will not fertilize enough of them and want to make sure that every egg gets its chance. I guess it's not as uncommon as I thought, I posted a question about it on another IVF site and more than half of them did ICSI with DS. I was totally floored but definitely don't want to see an IVF cycle with a crappy fertilization report.

Oh I get you. Yeah we had a crappy fertilisation report :nope: But I think to be honest it was just my eggs, as the doc seemed surprised.



Stinas said:


> Hi ladies!!
> Thought I would give an update since DH went to the urologist today.
> He has been on clomid once a week for a month now. Doc says he really thinks having the original procedure he suggested to us is the way to go. He is pretty confident that the cyst is causing the blockage, especially since he did find some sperm during the TESE. He wants to go in from the tip and scrape basically a "tunnel" for the sperm to go under the cyst and out. He says we would be able to see sperm in a week. DH will continue taking the clomid to improve the sperm and help make more.
> When this was first brought up to us we were more scared than anything. The risks are leakage from the penis as well as anus....but its a very very small percentage. It freaked us out so we opted out of it. The doc told DH he has done a ton of them with out complications.
> I think at this point its more logical for us to try it. We pay for IVF out of pocket, so its worth trying this surgery since its actually covered and has a good chance of making us have a baby the old fashioned way.
> Im scared, excited, and nervous. I dont want to get my hopes up, because this year has been hell....i am hoping this could be our clean slate, a new fresh year.
> Has anyone done this kind of surgery? I forget the name.....I didnt go to the doc with DH.

Wow, Stinas, that sounds really promising. I know what you mean about not wanting to get your hopes up. I hope somebody else knows about this procedure and can talk about it with you. :hugs:


----------



## Chickensoup85

> He says we would be able to see sperm in a week. DH will continue taking the clomid to improve the sperm and help make more.

Wow that is so positive! You must be so excited! (as well as all the other emotions that come with this of course!)

How are people feeling at the mo? With Xmas and new year coming up? I'll be glad to see the back of 2012 to be honest. Hoping 2013 will be the year for everyone on here!


----------



## snd80

Chickensoup85 said:


> He says we would be able to see sperm in a week. DH will continue taking the clomid to improve the sperm and help make more.
> 
> Wow that is so positive! You must be so excited! (as well as all the other emotions that come with this of course!)
> 
> How are people feeling at the mo? With Xmas and new year coming up? I'll be glad to see the back of 2012 to be honest. Hoping 2013 will be the year for everyone on here!Click to expand...

Girl! Me and you both!!!!!! This time last year I was chomping at the bit for 2011 to be over, and here I am again the same way for 2012!!!!! These past 2 years of this azoo sh*t is getting to me!!!! I'm SOOO freaking over it!!!! :nope:

SB- Wish you would :test: already!!!!!! Jeez, I need some REAL re-assurance that IVF _*is*_ the answer and that all this waiting will be worth it!!!!!!

Stinas- Sounds excellent! You deserve to get a little excited! Hell, I would!!!!! =)


----------



## Chickensoup85

Ok, 2012 is officially worse. Called up a private clinc today to find out how much a sperm retrieval would be... £5000! Wtf?? That's criminal! Now our carefully laid plan is out the f'ing window. I honestly didn't think it would be so much. With icsi on top, it's just not do-able. We are too young to qualify on the nhs so more waiting :(


----------



## wanna_bump

Hi everyone, hope you dont mind me gatecrashing. I have pcos which is being managed by metformin and today my husband was told he had a zero sperm count. We are both in bits and finding it hard to cope with at the moment. We have an appt at the clinic in jan where we plan on discussing using donor sperm. I thought id be ok with the idea but unsure now. Do the male vitamins work or is it a waste of mondy? Any advice would be most welcome x


----------



## Chickensoup85

Wanna_bump, sorry that you have had this awful diagnosis. Did the doctor not talk over your options? There are 2 types of azoospermia; obstructive (a blockage) or non obstructive. My husband had blood tests to check chromosomes and an MRI to see what was happening. Your options depend on the type I think but they can do a surgical sperm retrieval to check for any sperm in storage. If they found something you could then do IVF with icsi.

I think what I have said is kind of correct but I am new to this diagnosis and am mainly picking things up from here and google. Please correct me if I have made a mistake!


----------



## deafgal01

That is correct. Two types but the procedures seem to differ from place to place depending on where you live. My hubby only had sa done three or four times plus an exploratory surgery to retrieve tissue samples and see if it was blockage issue. He also had blood tests to check his levels of testerones.

As for holidays, I am ready to see 2013 roll around, haven't given the holidays much thought past few days as I had school finals to focus on plus working a lot. Just realize it is soon approaching the one year anniversary when I found out of my husband's azoo dx. Not sure how I feel about that anniversary.


----------



## wanna_bump

Thanks for your replies, we plan on talking through treatment/options at our next appt as he aas given the result over the phone.


----------



## Deb111

Im delighted to be asked to announce that pink lolly has had a beautiful baby boy called lewis james on 12/12/12 at 10.27pm weighing 7lb 8oz. PL and baby both doing well x


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Hi all,

I'm new to this website and to the forum. I often come on here to get comfort from reading other peoples comments but it's come to the point where I need to join in.

I am 25 and my DH is 26, married for almost 2 years, TTC for 13 months. I have polycistic ovaries and possibly PCOS. We were referred to a fertility specialist and after a SA for my husband he was told there were no sperm in the sample. I wasn't completely shocked as he had undescended testicles that weren't fixed until he was about 8 years old!!! but it has still really hit us hard. We found out yesterday and our specialist called us in to meet with her during her lunch break today as we go on holidays tomorrow. 

So he had blood tests taken today and we are booked in for another SA in January. I'm not really feeling all that positive at this point. I don't know if you can come back from having undescended testicles for 8 years...

SO i think my husband and I will each have our own specialists. This is ridiculous! why is it so hard to bring a baby into the world??!!!


----------



## WannabemomRN

Hey all! I see some have had exciting/hopeful news, that's great!! Curious though if anyone has ever read the pathology report from a biopsy. I picked up DH's today: seminiferous tubules showing almost no spermatogenesis, most cells showing sertoli cell only, only rare spermatogonia encountered.... I think all hope is lost. :(


----------



## Deb111

Wannabe - i will check when i get a minute but im pretty sure thats what my hubbys said and look where we are now!


----------



## Stinas

Well ladies...DH and I have officially decided we are going to do surgery. He is still on clomid once a week. 
All his bloods came out normal again last week. 
He has to do a colonoscopy on Jan 7 and then I believe his surgery will be the 22nd of Jan.


----------



## BumpHopes

Hopeful Cat said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to this website and to the forum. I often come on here to get comfort from reading other peoples comments but it's come to the point where I need to join in.
> 
> I am 25 and my DH is 26, married for almost 2 years, TTC for 13 months. I have polycistic ovaries and possibly PCOS. We were referred to a fertility specialist and after a SA for my husband he was told there were no sperm in the sample. I wasn't completely shocked as he had undescended testicles that weren't fixed until he was about 8 years old!!! but it has still really hit us hard. We found out yesterday and our specialist called us in to meet with her during her lunch break today as we go on holidays tomorrow.
> 
> So he had blood tests taken today and we are booked in for another SA in January. I'm not really feeling all that positive at this point. I don't know if you can come back from having undescended testicles for 8 years...
> 
> SO i think my husband and I will each have our own specialists. This is ridiculous! why is it so hard to bring a baby into the world??!!!

Hi Hopeful!

Im in the same position as you. I have PCOS and my OH has Azoo. When we found out it was heart breaking and truth be told still is but we are much more positive now. Obviously everyone is different, but we decided to do IVF with donor sperm, not do any Tese or any other experimental ops - straight to donor. My Its a big thing to chose. But what i wanted to say is that we were refered by my OB/GYN to his specialist for the SA and then from his specialist to the IVF centre. i dont have to go back to my OB/GYN. Just go through the IVF clinic now. 

Its not fair and i completely agree!! It should not be this hard. But there are always options. Im sorry your going through this but there are so many options available, dont lose hope just yet. :flower:


----------



## BumpHopes

Deb - haven't been on here for a while but a huge CONGRATULATIONS on the safe arrival of your beautiful baby - just gorgeous!!


----------



## Chickensoup85

I am officially a bitch :(. My friend announced her pregnancy at work today. I have known for a while but it's so much harder now everyone else knows. I couldn't even look at her, I practically threw her Christmas present at her... I feel so awful :(

Am I an awful person?

I hate azoospermia!


----------



## snd80

Chickensoup85 said:


> I am officially a bitch :(. My friend announced her pregnancy at work today. I have known for a while but it's so much harder now everyone else knows. I couldn't even look at her, I practically threw her Christmas present at her... I feel so awful :(
> 
> Am I an awful person?
> 
> I hate azoospermia!

NO, you are not!!! It's just very hard to deal with after the initial diagnosis. I befriended my *VERY* best friend not long after she told me she was pg... it just hurt SOOO bad to see her belly growing knowing I couldn't be pg. myself, I just did what I thought was best. There are days I regret it now, but what is done is done... Just give it time. Chin up and :hugs:!!!


----------



## MoBaby

chickensoup: no its not awful. I went on vacay with my friend this summer and she was pg (i dont know why I did; it was her family trip and she was announcing the gender!) and I could hardly keep from crying and hiding all trip! a couple of times i just went into the bedroom and just let some steam off because i couldnt take it any longer. it ended up being one of the worst weeks! but i did feel bad for feeling that way b/c she had issues also but was able to do iui... But being pg now I'm like the wait was worth it and hopefully in late july the wait will be even better :) Sorry you are going through this :(


----------



## Shellvz

Chickensoup85 said:


> I am officially a bitch :(. My friend announced her pregnancy at work today. I have known for a while but it's so much harder now everyone else knows. I couldn't even look at her, I practically threw her Christmas present at her... I feel so awful :(
> 
> Am I an awful person?
> 
> I hate azoospermia!

TTC, infertility, azoo... such an emotional rollercoaster with every emotion under the sun. You are not an awful person - you are upset, disappointed, angry, envious - and we all feel these emotions.

I have discovered that my husband has azoo, we can't get pregnant without IVF and 2 of my sis-in-laws just announced their surprise pregnancies... Both 8 weeks and will deliver same time.

Now I have Christmas to look forward to with both families - knowing that they are both celebrating this new life growing in them and I am empty.

It is a hard road but it doesn't make us awful people for feeling it.


----------



## deafgal01

Chicken- you're not awful for feeling all that. :hugs: We're only human, we're bound to feel all sort of emotions related to this journey. :hugs:


----------



## Briss

Ladies, I hope you do not mind me joining though my DH does not have azoo, his sperm count is getting from bad to worse and I just do not know what's ahead and getting prepared for the worse. 

I agree it's just too much to ask of us to be always happy for the pregnancies being announced all around, while I do not see anyone (apart from my fellow B&B members) expressing their condolences for our losses for every month we are not pregnant&#8230; I just survived a lunch with two colleagues who both have 2.5 years olds (it's like a reminder of how long I am TTC, I started when they got pregnant), trying to smile and discuss all their child related problems while being patronised like "you are so lucky you do not have these problems"&#8230; am I? really!


----------



## MoBaby

we lost our azo baby today :(


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## Stinas

Oh no mo! im sooo sorry!


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## Shellvz

MoBaby said:


> we lost our azo baby today :(

So sorry :(


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## Deb111

Im so so sorry mo. My thoughts are with you and your hubby x x


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## Deb111

Hope everyones ok. Welcome to the newbies. Sorry you find yourselves here but you will get lots of support x x


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## tigerlily1975

I'm so very, very sorry, Mo. Big :hugs: :hugs: to both of you.

C xx


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## BettiS

MoBaby - I know words can't relieve the pain you are feeling right now, but I offer my deepest condolences...I can never imagine how you feel but I know that thyour baby is in heaven waiting to meet you one day. Praying that you guys will find peace and hope soon.

AFM - DH was put on Sperm-i-Prove (a sperm production vitamin) to increase chances of finding sperm in March. TMI ALERT: He has been taking the pills for 3 weeks and is saying that lately his orgasms are much more intense and says (I am a witness of the fact) that his scrotum isn't as tight anymore (it's like the sack has become bigger, lol). Really hoping this is a good sign?!!


----------



## BrandyRelax

Mo - I'm so sorry to hear about the loss. 

BettiS - that sounds like it's doing something! Is your hubby still doing SA's to check in case just one or two might come out on their own? My FS suggested that my hubby go once a week until the TESE so that he has the best chance of preventing the surgery (because I hear recovery is not fun at all!).


----------



## Briss

MoBaby said:


> we lost our azo baby today :(

I am so sorry for your loss :cry:


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## snd80

SOOOOO sorry Mo!!!!!!! :cry:

Life is so FREAKING unfair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: to you and your DH!!!!


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh Mo That's awful :hugs: :flower: :hugs:


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## Chickensoup85

Mo, I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how heartbroken you must be. x


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## silverbell

Mo I am so incredibly heartbroken to hear this. I cannot imagine how you must feel after all you've both been through.

Thinking of you both :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## rdleela

Mo, I am so, so sorry to hear about your loss, big hugs!!

I just wanted to drop in and wish everyone the very best for the holidays...this is my second holiday season going through infertility, and I must say, it's not as bad as last year. :wacko: I wish the best for all of you as you go through this challenging week...and all the best for 2013...


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## deafgal01

Happy Holidays to you too rd (and everyone else)! I agree with you on that- the holidays doesn't seem as bad/hard as last year's was.


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## raelynn

Mo - I am so sorry for your loss. I know it is a horrible thing to go through and will keep you and your DH in my prayers.


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## BettiS

Hi ladies! Happy holidays to all of you!

Got my first tattoo today! It's a butterfly, symbolising strength through fragility. It's my keepsake for this difficult situation above which I intend to rise.


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## deafgal01

Betti- do you have a pic of the new tattoo? I'd love to see it!


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## Briss

ladies, I have a TMI question, has it ever happened to you that during BD there is no sperm at all, I mean no semen or liquid of any kind coming from your DH? We did not BD for about 3 weeks and then just before O I made hubby BD (the chances of natural TTC are slim but miracles do happen) and he said he came but there was no sperm. We BD the next day and there was plenty. I know that presence of semen does not mean there is many sperm in it but actual absence of semen is worrying me.


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## silverbell

Briss said:


> ladies, I have a TMI question, has it ever happened to you that during BD there is no sperm at all, I mean no semen or liquid of any kind coming from your DH? We did not BD for about 3 weeks and then just before O I made hubby BD (the chances of natural TTC are slim but miracles do happen) and he said he came but there was no sperm. We BD the next day and there was plenty. I know that presence of semen does not mean there is many sperm in it but actual absence of semen is worrying me.

Hi Briss

This has happened to us on a few occasions, though we've not worried about it as it's not a regular occurence. Maybe once a year? He'll orgasm, but he just doesn't get the ejaculation with it. I figured maybe this happened to most guys. Like I say, I've not worried about it or looked into it as it's happened so rarely. I hope this helps to reassure you?


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## deafgal01

Idk- always had semen (even if the sperms are not there). Maybe one of the other ladies can help.


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## Briss

Silver, thank you. May be you are right if it's just a one off it's not such a big deal. I think it happened before though may be a few months ago but cant be sure. Sometimes it's really hard to say. is it normal not to have anything coming out of me after BD? I thought it just meant everything got in through the cervix but then I read that only small amount gets in most was supposed to get out.


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## Soili

Briss, the amount of ejaculate usually depends on how long was the foreplay and how many times a man was "close", but held it back. So if it was a "quickie", then it's very normal to have very little. It doesn't correspond to how much sperm is in ejaculate, everything that was ready to come out, will come out. It's just will be less or more diluted.

It also depends on how well hydrated he is at the moment and if he's taking any antihistamine (allergy, sinusitis) medication. 

Also, abstinence has an effect on total sperm count, but doesn't affect ejaculate volume. 

I hope it makes sense :) It's all because actual sperm and the liquid it's coming out swimming in are produced in different parts. The liquid builds up greatly during sex, sperm is produced constantly, regardless of being aroused or not.


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## Briss

soili, thank you very much! we do not have much of a foreplay with hubby's low sex drive I am lucky if we BD at all, sometimes it can take a while but not because he is trying to make it last longer but cos he is not aroused enough to come, sorry for TMI. I did not know that sperm and its liquid come from different places, certainly something to think about


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## Soili

Hun, there's no such thing as TMI for me anymore :D I'm glad it was helpful!


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## Deb111

Just wanted to pop in and wish you all a happy new year. I know from experience how hard this time of year can be when you're struggling with infertility. There's been lots of good news in this thread this year and sadly, lots of sad news and new members. I really hope that 2013 brings more good news and some positive progress for those of you still struggling xx


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## MoBaby

My DH asked my RE to refer us to another urologist today after my d/c....we still have 3 embryo frozen... RE said why do you need a urologist? You make embryos... He told him that he wanted a more thorough exam to see if he has a blockage from the previous surgeries or if there is something else they can do to increase/improve the sperm coming out as our current one wasn't thorough and never offered any type of examination outside of feeling his testicles then saying we needed to pay 7k, 2k before he would schedule, etc. we got the karyotype and fsh/lh/testosterone (high/normal I think/slightly low) and we thought he could at least have an ultrasound or trial with clomid or tamoxifen. Just in case these 3 don't work out... But re was hesitant to tell him where to go. He never did really make a referral... Why I wonder?? All other reproductive urologist are 2 hours away... Our friend with similar labs does Hcg injections and his sc went up to 3 mil from 0. So I just wonder..


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## SineadM

Hi everyone :hi:

I've been lurking and reading this thread ever since my Hubby got his zero SA results and thought it was about time I posted.

A little about myself, I'm 33 and Hubby is 37, we've been married for nearly 2 years but together 8.

We started TTC in Oct 2011, we waited until about April 2012 when I managed to talk Hubby into us going to see our GP, I was very paranoid about something being wrong with me as I compete in Bodybuilding competitions, my bodyfat gets so low towards the competition date that my periods stop. I never dreamt there would be anything wrong with him. Everything down there looks normal and he has an incredibly high sex drive

So GP sent me for bloods and him for SA ( we fibbed about how long we had been trying for ) 

My bloods came back as normal but his SA was zero... Hubby did say the sample was quite low in volume so the GP sent him off for another one ... Zero again

We were both distraught, our world had just fallen to bits. Our GP referred him to a Urologist at the local hospital who sent him for bloods & a scan - he said when examining everything seemed to be normal

So the bloods were done straight away but the follow up appt had to wait until the scan was done - which took FOREVER !! After months of chasing he finally got the appt and I went along with him, totally expecting to find a blockage.

The sonographer said everything was totally normal which was great from a health point of view but not the answer we wanted !

He had his follow up appt a week later and the urologist said his bloods were normal so he would be referred for an Op to clear a suspected blockage and they would also perform SSR incase the op didn't work.

Again, it took ages for the appt to come through, this was at UCL in London so not our local hospital. 

The consultant he saw examined him and we were totally expecting him to agree with the original doc and put him on the waiting list for the op. But he actually said he could not feel his Vas tubes ... they weren't there.

So they wouldn't try to clear a blockage, it was straight to SSR and then IVF with ICSI

I say straight to SSR, that's a complete lie because the NHS are so crap at talking to eachother, the doc wanted him to repeat ALL of the tests again so they have them on record.

So he had to have bloods done again, another scan is booked on the end of Jan, he can do his sample at the same time ( silly boy had been ' busy ' so couldn't provide it that day ) and then a follow up appt to discuss the results the end of April.

So frustrating we just seem to be waiting so long for the next step to then feel we aren't getting anywhere.

I am so scared, I am scared something will have changed in the tests or he'll be a CF carrier, I am scared we will be given more problems

I am scared they won't find any sperms, I am scared there could still be something wrong with me as I've only had bloods done.

I am scared the ICSI won't work, if it does work then we could lose it

I hate all of this, it's all so uncertain :nope:

The flip side is, in the grand scheme of things we are actually quite lucky - they have found a definite problem and the likelyhood of something else being wrong is very small but all we can do is take each step at a time and deal with everything at that point and not before.

We have an incredibly strong marriage, we've laughed as much as we've cried, we've joked about him not needing the snip, we've joked about the sperms being trapped in there like the Chilean minors and we've supported eachother through the bad days.

I want him to have the SSR on the NHS and then look at possibly going private for the ICSI, I don't think I can handle the looong NHS waiting times... Our Father In Law has very kindly offered to pay for any treatment we need.

So 2013 will be a very rocky year for us, lots of waiting but I am reminded of this quote ' Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning how to dance in the rain '

I love that quote so much, I am getting it tattooed on my rib cage at the end of this month.

I wish you all health & happiness for 2013 and I wish all our dreams come true x


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## Stinas

Mo - I would push for him to go get a more thorough exam. You just never know. I think some of these docs just want you to go through IVF...its like their easy way out/more money for them type of thing. 

SineadM - Im sorry to see you here, but you did find a great group of ladies. Everyones story is totally different, but all our emotions are pretty much the same. 
I found azoo to be a waiting game. I wish it were different, but in order to get things done in our cases, waiting is what we have to do. 
Before you go ahead with IVF/ICSI, I suggest making sure DH has had every test and exam possible. We got scared and were tired of waiting, so we jumped ahead with IVF/ICSI, instead of doing the surgery to "unblock" DH......it didnt work out, knowing that I wish I did the surgery instead of going through all those emotions/stress of IVF.....not to mention the 30k+.....just to end up at square one. Jan 22 we are going to do the surgery we were originally offered. 
IVF is not easy.....so try all the "easy" things first, keep IVF as your last option. 
I feel like thats what I have learned through this process so far.


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## Deb111

Welcome sinead. Unfortunately your story of the nhs not communucating and long delays is all too common :nope: 

It does sound very positive that they have a reason for the azoo and theres no reason to think there should be any other issues. Easier said than done but try not to worry about things that havent happened - im the worst one to preach about this! :blush:

Im glad you and your dh are so strong. You will get through this x x


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## Pearlie11

Hi. My DH and I have been TTC for 1.5 years. After 6 months of nothing we both got examined and tested. I'm okay, but DH's SA came up with zero sperm. We got his azoo diagnosis one year ago (Jan 12). He has normal genetics and normal hormones. Well, his fsh is on the low side. He had three large varicoceles repaired in March of 2012. The urologist told us it can take up to 12 months to see improvement in sperm after a varicocele repair, but, that there may be no improvement. Also, at the same time of the varicocele repair he also had a mtese. Only immature sperm were found. The doctor said he has late stage maturation arrest. And he said it could be due to the varicoceles or it could be something idiopathic. We started seeing a RE who recommended DH start taking injections of recombinant fsh three times a week for approximately 3-6 months. So we just started that last week and we'll be doing that for at the very least the next three months. The absolute best outcome would be if (please God) there is ultimately sperm in his ejaculate. But, we understand that is a longshot and DH may likely have to go through another mtese later this year. Dh is so amazing. This whole thing has really made me realize even more how lucky I am to have him. He doesn't complain about any of the needles, surgeries, doctor appointments, nothing. He is the best. I wouldn't trade him for anything. But my heart brakes for him. For us. Its so sad. 

So we're back waiting. A position I'm sure you can all relate to. And of course during this time literally every single one of the women in our circle of friends has gotten pregnant, had a baby or about to try for their next one. I know I don't have to tell you guys how hard this is. And of course I go through my moments where I am so judgmental towards parents and think how much better DH and I would be, and how its not fair. And then I remind myself how lucky we are in other ways. We've been going to therapy to deal with the very real possibility that we may end up having to adopt or use donor sperm. I'm just not ready to give up on DH yet. I am so conflicted on how I feel about adoption versus donor. I think that while we are still treating DH and hoping that we can get sperm from him, its too difficult to move on to considering other forms of family building. 

Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself. I'm so sorry for all of us going through it, but it really does help to know we are not alone. Our friends know that we have infertility problems but they don't know the specifics and we don't really talk about it with them. Our families know, but none of our friends know, so forums like this really help me vent and not feel alone. 

Thanks for listening. And if there is anyone out there whose DH has NOA and has had a successful mtese, or a successful repeated mtese, or tried fsh injections, I'd love to hear about it. 

Here's hoping 2013 is a good year for everyone.


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## deafgal01

:hi: Pearlie... I'm always sad to see new people join the boat we're all in, but you've come to a great forum for information. My hubby may not be in the same situation but we can definitely relate on the emotions- everyone else pregnant or trying for their second. :hugs:

If it helps, I look at adoption vs donation in this way. With adoption, you don't have anything much to contribute to it except "buying" the child/baby. Both of you would become 'the parents' of the child/baby you adopt without all the pregnancy stuff (morning sickness, ultrasounds, dr appts before baby comes). As for donation, depending on what type you go for... It can be seen as "half-adoption" if that makes sense, if you do it with just donor sperm. :shrug: But at least in that situation your hubby and you can have fun experiencing the pregnancy joys together in that journey. Everyone comes to their own conclusion at what they're most comfortable with. You're right not to give up on your DH, especially if your insurance will cover it or if you can afford it.


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## SunUp

Hi wonderful Azoo ladies! I am so sorry for being a bad supporter! I just wanted to wish everyone well at where you each are in your journey! 
Welcome to the new ladies, so sorry you have to be here but the support here was SO helpful for me, from the point of diagnosis and all the way through treatment.

I really hope 2013 turns into a beautiful year for all of you!


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## Chickensoup85

Hello,

Welcome to the board Sinead and Pearlie! 

I hope everyone is getting on ok.

Just a quickie, had a private consultation for mTESE today and was told it will be £5500 for it with blockage removal. Does this sound like a normal price? Seen cheaper but thats just TESE, not the mTESE. Also, can't find anywhere that does the micro surgery to compare with.

What are your experiences of it?

Thanks.


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## Deb111

Hubbys mTESE was £7500 so that sounds like a fair price x


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## Mrs.X

Hi! Me and my husband have two daughters. We want to get pregnant for the third time. Almoust two years I can't get pregnant. A month ago we founded, that my hubby got azoospermia :-( *How could this happen?* With our two pregnancy we didn't had a problems... My hubby don't smoke, don't drink.

Sorry for my spellings....


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## deafgal01

No idea, Mrs. X. Lots of stuff could have happened since the last time you had your girls together.


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## Pearlie11

deafgal, thanks for your input re adoption versus donor, I hadn't thought of it like that before. Always appreciate other opinions and learning how others came to their decisions. And thanks for the welcome from everyone else. 

Not much to update for us now because we're going to be doing the fsh injections for DH for at least three months. So we won't have any news one way or another for a little while now. But I will continue to check in here and see how everyone else is doing. 

I hope and pray that 2013 will bring us all closer to having the family we all wish for.


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## CanadianMaple

Pearlie, that's how I was able to accept donor sperm. I looked at it almost like a 1/3 adoption in a way since the gestation is also controlled. I didn't want to trust someone else to gestate a baby and trust they would make all the choices I would.

AFM: We are doing IVF! I had my mock embryo transfer done on Monday and I start the ASA and BCP tomorrow for 21 days. DH's TESA is booked for Feb 21 and my ER the following day. We know DH only has a 20% chance for finding sperm, so we still have our donor backup and will hope for the best. I'm terrified since I never thought we would go as far as doing IVF/ICSI.


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## CanadianMaple

Mrs.X said:


> Hi! Me and my husband have two daughters. We want to get pregnant for the third time. Almoust two years I can't get pregnant. A month ago we founded, that my hubby got azoospermia :-( *How could this happen?* With our two pregnancy we didn't had a problems... My hubby don't smoke, don't drink.
> 
> Sorry for my spellings....

Did he have mumps or any kind of infections or surgeries? I'm so sorry, that has to be rough since you would just assume you would both still be fertile.


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## Stinas

Canadian - Thats good news that you have the ball rolling!! Yay!


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## Mrs.X

My hubby had an operation for his broken leg. Had lots of x-rays.


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## Pearlie11

Canadian - good luck for the upcoming tesa! I will think such good thoughts for you and hope that they find sperm from your DH and that the IVF/ICSI is a success. I feel that every success story just makes me feel more hopeful so I'll be praying for you guys.


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## Pearlie11

Pearlie11 said:


> Canadian - good luck for the upcoming tesa! I will think such good thoughts for you and hope that they find sperm from your DH and that the IVF/ICSI is a success. I feel that every success story just makes me feel more hopeful so I'll be praying for you guys.


Oh, Canadian, I was wondering, what is the cause of your DH's azoo? Do you know? We don't know the exact cause of my DH's azoo...his hormones are normal, although on the low side of normal (but you would never know, he's always had high sex drive and normal sex life, etc), and all the genetics are normal (no Y-microchromosome deletion, no karyotype). He did have three large varicoceles so its possible that was the cause, but I understand that the correlation between varicoceles and azoo is uncertain. Our urologist and RE basically told us that sometimes they just don't know.


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## Hopeful Cat

Hi Ladies,

Hope everybody had a great Christmas and New Years regardless of the difficulties we are all facing.

My husband is Scottish (i'm Australian) so we spent our Christmas in Scotland this year and had the chance to tell a few very close friends and family members of our struggle. It was hard to hear that most of them were hoping we were going to bring some pregnancy news. We have been married for nearly 2 years now and i'm hoping we don't start getting the dreaded 'when are you guys going to have a baby' question from those that don't know. 

My husband has gone in for his second SA test and i've got him taking male fertility pills at the moment hoping it makes any sort of difference. We are booked in for his first appointment with a specialist later this month. I really have no idea what the initial steps are or what to expect at all.

So for the moment it is just a waiting game. I think that's the worst part.... feeling helpless.


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## BettiS

Hey girls! Sorry I haven't been on here in a while.

Welcome to the new ladies. Not a fun position to be in, but very supportive and knowledgeable ladies here make it more bearable.

Deafgal, I would love to post a pic of the tattoo, but have NO idea how to post pics here! Any suggestions? It's nicely healed now, and I can't WAIT to go for another (they warn that tattooing is addictive - they're right!).

We have decided to postpone DH's biopsy until June/July at the earliest - we won't be able to do ICSI before December anyway. We need to save some money first and at the moment we're just trying get our back yard to look like something (our dogs are diggers, and destroy all and any plants we try to plant), so now we're going to put concrete slabs with grass in between down, and build a plant/flower bed that's about 50cm above the ground so that the dogs can't get in there. Also kind of considered linking the flower bed to the electric fencing so that my one dog that's a jumper can learn a hard lesson (I guess that's not very humane of me, but I'm desperate - won't really do it though). It's kind of expensive to get the back yard in order, so other expenses will just have to wait a few months.

Started work today :nope: REALLY hate being back after a 5 week holiday, but I guess I have to earn money somehow.

Hope everyone will have a great day!


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## Soili

BettiS said:


> Also kind of considered linking the flower bed to the electric fencing so that my one dog that's a jumper can learn a hard lesson

You're not serious about that though? It sounds so cruel.


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## MoBaby

the electric fencing wont hurt the dog...just scare them... they use it to keep cattle inside fences in my area.


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## CanadianMaple

I was just wondering something now that we are going ahead with a TESA. I spent a few months thinking we were going to use a donor with super sperm that would fertilize my eggs without any issues. If we do get sperm from DH's TESA and do ICSI, will it go well like any "normal" sperm? Could none of them fertilize or grow? I know I am overthinking this and some of you have the answer to this question. The last time we spoke to the urologist was last May and we ruled out TESA.

Betti- Waiting is hard, but I can't blame you for wanting to save money and wait a bit. We had to get some work done around our house while waiting and it all worked out somehow. Even while saving, it's hard not to continue living and doing what needs done around the house.

Hopeful Cat- I was a basketcase while waiting this time last year. It's hard when you don't know what the results will be and where things will lead from there. I had a major fear of the unknown. I bet they will do an exam, do bloodwork (hormones and genetic tests which take a few weeks) and they will go over your entire medical history.

Pearlie11- We were told it was testicular failure since his genetic testing was normal. He had low tesosterone, high LH and FSH. Prolactin was normal. But, a few months later, we wanted his family doctor to recheck the testosterone to see if he would need testosterone replacement for his sex drive. His testosterone was normal. On the low end of normal, but still normal, so we don't know what it is. Probably still testicular failure, which means there is only a 20% chance of finding sperm in the TESA next month. He did have a terrible car accident about 15 years ago and the urologist said there could be a blockage too, on top of the hormone issues. That's been our biggest struggle is the mixed messages we had gotten over the past year.

Mrs.X- I have never heard of x-rays causing issues, but I suppose there would be radiation from them. Yikes.


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## SunUp

CM- I might have misunderstood you - but this is my answer to what I think you are asking... If we did the TESA, our RE wanted us to have our DS at the clinic and, depending on how many eggs and the TESA outcome, we could decide which percentage of TESA sperm to use, and what percentage of DS. Testicular sperm is not usually the best quality, so while it does work, our RE wanted us to have the DS at the clinic in case we needed to use that.


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## tigerlily1975

CanadianMaple said:


> I was just wondering something now that we are going ahead with a TESA. I spent a few months thinking we were going to use a donor with super sperm that would fertilize my eggs without any issues. If we do get sperm from DH's TESA and do ICSI, will it go well like any "normal" sperm? Could none of them fertilize or grow? I know I am overthinking this and some of you have the answer to this question. The last time we spoke to the urologist was last May and we ruled out TESA.

Hello Canadian :hi:

Wow, it's so exciting that you're all good to go! I think this is a tricky one. In our case the Drs found sperm, but the quality was not great (mostly immobile and immature), so we had no fertilization, unfortunately. But there are many, many success stories with this procedure (points to the lovely Debs!). 

DH is currently on Clomid and we're hoping we'll be able to go for MTESE/ICSI in the next couple of months, but our Dr has also mentioned that we might want a DS back-up (we're hoping to do a fresh cycle and I believe this suggestion is quite common), but my DH is not happy using a donor.... 

I wish none of us here had to go through any of this. 

Sending you tonnes of gooooood luck!!

:hugs:

C xx

P.S. :hi: to all! I've been 'popping my head in', but not really posting of late as we're just waiting for the next step at the mo'. I hope, hope, HOPE 2013 is THE year for all of us!!


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## BettiS

Soili - Nope, not really, said it in the original post.


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## deafgal01

Betti- if you go to advanced version of posting, there is a paper clip symbol for attachments. Browse computer for the pic, then select it and click Something. I forget cuz I have not uploaded pics in a while. But it will show up in this box when it is attached to the post.


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## Hopeful Cat

Hey ladies,
Dh and I went to our first appointment with his specialist yesterday. I just sat there is silence for the most part trying to keep it all together. He was really nice but just very blunt and it was all hard to swallow. Does anybody else get like that? I can be fine for weeks but as soon as I step into tjhat room I'm a bundle of nerves and close to tears.
Second SA test came back with a zero count again and his fsh(?) was a bit high. On the plus side he didn't have any tumours, testosterone was good and his anatomy all looked fine in a quick scan. He did say he had small balls tho which we laughed about later. At least that's got to be more comfortable right? 
Next step for us is the fine needle procedure to get a little bit of tissue to examine. I'm hoping we find sperm but considering he had undescended testicles until he was 9 doesn't give me much hope. I just don't understand how it could of been overlooked when he was born. I'm still really angry about it. 
Anyway - I know some of your dhs are taking vitamins and other things to improve sperm quality if they find any... Can anybody tell me what the best thing for him to be taking atm would be, I forgot to ask the specialist.


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## deafgal01

Hopeful- you're lucky that your dh let you go in with him. Mine would not take me to his appt to ask questions and stuff. But yeah I expect that to be normal feelings for that situation.


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## Stinas

Hey ladies! 
Just an update from me....DH had surgery yesterday to remove some of the cyst we think could be causing the blockage. Catheter comes out fri and next week we have a sperm analysis....which will tell us if this worked or not.

Hope all is well with everyone!


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## deafgal01

Stinas- hope that works out for your DH... I hope that is all that it takes to get it solved so that you two can have a baby. :thumbup: Good luck!


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## Chickensoup85

Good luck Stinas!


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## CanadianMaple

Stinas- Good luck, I hope the healing goes well!

Hopeful Cat- I found that I struggled a lot when we would meet with specialists. I would always feel ready and then it would fly out the window when we got there in the office. DH didn't do any supplements. We were given a 20% chance of finding sperm and he didn't feel that anything would really change in our case.

Tigerlily- Thank you for your reply. I am going to ask the nurse about it when we go in on Tuesday. I suppose we would know the quality the day before? 

SunUp- We have the donor sperm there, so I guess it will be a matter of seeing what happens with the TESA. We are definitely prepared to use it if we have to.

AFM- I have my teaching appointment on Tuesday and will start my Suprefact on Wednesday. I can't believe we will actually have a chance to get pregnant! I'm scared to death of the egg retrieval though. Cross your fingers for us!


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## MJ73

Hi girls, 

sorry I haven't been on for ages, to be honest I've had alot of anxiety & have found steering clear of forums has helped me with it (there are so many horor stories!)... But I've missed all my azoo girls & Tang has missed all his Azoo Aunties too! Not long now till we meet him face-to-face! Exciting! Just wanted to let you all know that in no way have I forgotten any of you & that I still am hoping & praying for you all each day.

Also to let you know that getting pregnant doesn't (for me at least) magically wash away the pain of azoo & infertility & I think it is something we will always carry with us. Something that has made us stronger, but has changed us forever. I also think that paying $30k to get pregnant increases your anxiety lol...

Canadian, with regards to sperm quality, it may be that each clinic has a different protocol. But for our clinic they will only ICSI the eggs with sperm that 'appears' mature & in a good form etc. It's a bit different to standard IVF because using ICSI, they inject the sperm into the eggs, rather than just hoping it will do as it is supposed to etc. In my husband's case they found more sertoli cell only sperm (immature) & fewer developed sperm. But the scientist will only use the mature sperm for ICSI. So, I think it is good to have DS on stand by in case it is needed, because going through egg retrieval & then having no sperm to work with is no fun, Freezing eggs is such new technology & has limited success as opposed to freezing embryos. Just a note that we had 3 straws (vials) of sperm from DH's first TESE & none of these survived defrost. Our scientist told us that they have alot more problems defrosting testicular sperm. Her explanation was the small numbers they are dealing with. For us, I think we had 19 sperm frozen in those 3 straws. In a normal sample (of millions) the scientist said that over half would not survive defrost, so when they're dealing with such small numbers, it's just a game of luck wether any survive or not. Having said that I'm pretty sure that there are girls on here who've had luck with testicular sperm defrosting. (Just not sure if you're doing TESE timed with your retrieval or not?) Other than that, the scientist didn't mention good, mature testicular sperm having a worse fert rate than fresh or frozen 'normal' sperm when using ICSI. It's so exciting you're up to this point now!

Anyway, we see the urologist again for DH at the beginning of March & hopefully will get the all clear for testicular cancer (or at least, hopefully will find out something more concrete at least). It's not very good timing for us as it's just after bub is due & bad news is the last thing we want, but we've had this hanging over our heads for a year now....
Like I said, I miss you girls. I'm hoping to get on more once bub is here.

Massive hugs all round! xxxxx


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## awifey

Hi. New to azoo. Just got day's results back today with zero sperm found. Sooo many pages on here it is overwhelming. I don't even know where to start really. :/ feeling a bit hopeless at the moment.


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## Chickensoup85

Hello Awifey,

Sorry you have had this horrible diagnosis. You're not alone, everyone on this board is so wonderful. 

Were you given much information of where to go from here?

We had our diagnosis relatively recently so not yet started any of the assisted conception part. After the initial diagnosis my husband was sent for more tests: an MRI, chromosome analysis and another SA. This was to determine if it was due to a blockage or a problem with production (both in our case). The next step now is a mTESE, a surgical sperm retrieval. If they find something we will move to IVF with ICSI.

MJ73, our doc never said anything about testicular frozen sperm not defrosting well and just said there was little evidence that frozen or not made a difference with fertilisation. Really concerned now as he practically laughed when I asked about doing fresh cycles! Should I have pushed it? Good luck for your appointment in march.


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## Stinas

MJ - !!!!!!! Sooooo happy to hear from you!!!!! Glad everything is going well! Yay for tang being a boy!!!! woohoooo! Its almost time!!!! Thanks for checking in on us!

awifey - Sorry to see you here!....but there are amazing ladies here to help you through things. 

As for me....DH has healed up well. SA this week or next week to determine if the surgery worked. I pray it has. Its scary to think that there is always that possibility we could be back at square one.


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## MoBaby

Hey awifey..dont feel hopeless. It hurts for sure when you get the diagnosis but its possible to do other methods to conceive..We know that IVF/ICSI works for us (If I could just hold onto the baby that would be the other issue). So dont lose hope! Talk to the urologist first and see what they have to offer. We declined the biopsy b/c DH has a few sperm present in his ejaculate....He did several SAs before we made the final decision. Good luck!

Welcome all new girls. Sorry you are here but this is a great thread and we all will get through AZO!! :):hugs:

Stinas: I am bitting my nails for you!! FX they find something!


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## awifey

Chickensoup85 said:


> Hello Awifey,
> 
> Sorry you have had this horrible diagnosis. You're not alone, everyone on this board is so wonderful.
> 
> Were you given much information of where to go from here?
> 
> We had our diagnosis relatively recently so not yet started any of the assisted conception part. After the initial diagnosis my husband was sent for more tests: an MRI, chromosome analysis and another SA. This was to determine if it was due to a blockage or a problem with production (both in our case). The next step now is a mTESE, a surgical sperm retrieval. If they find something we will move to IVF with ICSI.
> 
> MJ73, our doc never said anything about testicular frozen sperm not defrosting well and just said there was little evidence that frozen or not made a difference with fertilisation. Really concerned now as he practically laughed when I asked about doing fresh cycles! Should I have pushed it? Good luck for your appointment in march.




Stinas said:


> MJ - !!!!!!! Sooooo happy to hear from you!!!!! Glad everything is going well! Yay for tang being a boy!!!! woohoooo! Its almost time!!!! Thanks for checking in on us!
> 
> awifey - Sorry to see you here!....but there are amazing ladies here to help you through things.
> 
> As for me....DH has healed up well. SA this week or next week to determine if the surgery worked. I pray it has. Its scary to think that there is always that possibility we could be back at square one.




MoBaby said:


> Hey awifey..dont feel hopeless. It hurts for sure when you get the diagnosis but its possible to do other methods to conceive..We know that IVF/ICSI works for us (If I could just hold onto the baby that would be the other issue). So dont lose hope! Talk to the urologist first and see what they have to offer. We declined the biopsy b/c DH has a few sperm present in his ejaculate....He did several SAs before we made the final decision. Good luck!
> 
> Welcome all new girls. Sorry you are here but this is a great thread and we all will get through AZO!! :):hugs:
> 
> Stinas: I am bitting my nails for you!! FX they find something!

Thanks all for the support.

Right now dh and I are living in Abu Dhabi so that makes some medical services a bit of a hurdle. 

Short part of a long story, we didn't see a urologist, we just had the test done and collected the results with the dreaded info of zero sperm cells found even after centrifuge.

Since we're having trouble getting his medical card we will probably ask my new, one visit only, obgyn what her recommendation is.

He is a smoker so he will quit that and cut down on drinking to see if that helps, but who knows? Especially since zero were found instead of some. :/


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## keziah23

Hello all. I am new here. My husband and I are both 38. We've been together over 15 years but just started TTC last spring. 
We got the first zero SA in October and the second in November. We started seeing a urologist in November and hubbie is scheduled for varicocele repair on 2/8. They will also do biopsy and attempt extraction for freezing. All of his hormone levels are normal except his testosterone which is HIGH. 
We plan on seeing if the varococele repair works before trying anything else.
I had a antral follicle count and it came back good 12 on one side 18 on the other.


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## BettiS

Hi guys

Finally got a pic of my tattoo. I still need to go for a touch-up soon since there are some spots that didn't take, but the butterfly is a symbol of having to go through great struggle before becoming what you are meant to be.
 



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## awifey

BettiS said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Finally got a pic of my tattoo. I still need to go for a touch-up soon since there are some spots that didn't take, but the butterfly is a symbol of having to go through great struggle before becoming what you are meant to be.

I got buttery tattoos long ago, to show the new life I was leading. Is it because I got so many I have so many fresh struggles? ( azoo is the newest struggle)


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## MJ73

Hello Azoo Aunties, just popping in to announce the birth of our azoo miracle. Little Mitchell James was born at 8:30 am; weighing 6 pound 3 ounces. I had to have a scheduled C section early due to grade 4 placenta previa. We are so in love already although unfortunately because he is 1 day short of 37 weeks he is considered late term premmie. He has had dangerously low blood sugar & his lungs are full of mucous so he is in the special care unit. I've only held him 3 times. I'm so in love with him already that it's I have limb missing not being with our man. I've been able to hand express collostrum for him. So at least he's had some of that, but they've had to give him formula through a nasal gastric tube to bring up his blood sugar urgently. So not the first few days together I'd dreamed of, but I know he's getting the best care possible. I've waited so long, I can a few more days. Thanks for all the support girls, I hope our little miracle sustains & fuels your own hope the way other azoo babes have for me.
 



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## Deb111

Massive congratulations to you and dh. He is beautiful. I hope he is in your arms soon x x


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## loobylou_01

Massive congratulations to you all, what wonderful news, hope you.soon get him home x ,


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## awifey

Congrats!


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## Chickensoup85

Congratulations! He is gorgeous! I hope he comes home soon.


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## raelynn

MJ he's adorable! Congrats!!


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## Pink Lolly

Mj - massive congrstulations to you!! He is gorgeous. Hope you get him home soon Can start to enjoy being a mummy xxx


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## Stinas

MJ - Yayyy!!! Congrats!!!!! Woohoo! Hes a cutie!


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## deafgal01

Oh MJ it is wonderful to hear of his safe arrival! Hope he gets released as soon he is ready so you can begin your life at home as his mommy!


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## Arimas

Congrats MJ73 and I pray your son recovers and is in your arms ASAP. 

Thanks for sharing, it gives us all hope.


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## AuCa

Hi ladies,

another addition to the "azoo family" - DH just got diagnosed about a week ago, although we already suspected it after running a bunch of home tests.

Started following keziah's journal, and somebody mentioned this thread (sorry, forgot the name :blush:) - so here I am :).

And first of all - congrats MF73!! What an adorable miracle :happydance:


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## Hopeful Cat

Hi AuCa,

Sorry to hear about the azoo results - my husband and I got the horrible news in December last year so we are pretty much in the same boat. We had our first meeting with the fertility specialist in January and are booked in for a fine needle aspiration in March (they apparently only do one of these procedures a week at our clinic so it's a long waiting time). From that they'll be able to give us the expected chances of finding sperm.
I was/am devastated but I hear that everybody's situation is different and there are many things that can be done. MF73 is clear example of this.

I hope this forum helps you


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## BettiS

COngratulations, MJ, your son is absolutely gorgeous!


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## AuCa

Hopeful Cat said:


> We had our first meeting with the fertility specialist in January and are booked in for a fine needle aspiration in March (they apparently only do one of these procedures a week at our clinic so it's a long waiting time). From that they'll be able to give us the expected chances of finding sperm.
> I was/am devastated but I hear that everybody's situation is different and there are many things that can be done. MF73 is clear example of this.

Thanks for the encouraging words Hopeful Cat :hugs:
All the waiting is definitely one of the hardest parts....I'm waiting to hear back from the clinic to set up an appointment for our consultation, and I'm itching to call them, but keep telling myself that I need to be patient. :wacko:
Can I ask you what other tests they made your DH do?


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## SunUp

MJ! I am so excited for you. He looks perfect! And I am glad he is getting great care so that he can be nice and healthy to come home with you, and you can start this journey as a family of 3!! I SO wish I didn't live on the other side of the world from you!! If I ever make it around that far - I am DETERMINED I will - I hope to see you and your beautiful baby boy!!


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## Hopeful Cat

No worries AuCa, we have to keep eachother looking up and forward :)

We were sort of lucky in that I was already referred to a specialist about possible PCOS and Endometriosis when my DH was diagnosed so it was a quick transfer to another male fertility specialist. My issues are on the backburner until we determine what's going on with him.

My DH had bloodwork done to look at testosterone and FSH and other things (can't remember) and they did a quick ultrasound of his testes to look for any abnormalities or suspicious lumps. He had undescended testicles until age 9 so it's a much higher risk of cancer and tumors. luckily they found nothing abnormal - phew. They also checked the size of the testicles because apparently there is a connection between that and sperm production. Next step for us is the fine needle aspiration to take a sample and then if we have a chance of finding sperm we will go on to a biopsy where they take a larger tissue sample. My DH's testosterone was fine so he wasn't put on any meds yet.

I'm sorry I can't really be much more descriptive than that. I've tried to steer away from writing down numbers and finding out all the specifics because I think i'll end up googling it and just doing my head in.


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## keziah23

DH's surgery is tomorrow morning! I need to get to bed early since we have to be at the surgery center at 5:30am!


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## AuCa

Good luck keziah!!! Do you know when you'll get the results? 

HopefulCat - thanks for the info! No worries about the specific numbers, I just wanted to get an idea and to compare it with what our specialist had suggested (so far he told me that DH would need to do the ultrasound, some bloodwork and genetic testing).

I heard back from the clinic, and we're having our first consultation (over Skype, that'll be interesting..) this Sunday. Excited and a little panicky all at once :wacko:


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## keziah23

AuCa- they said can take up to 2 weeks for biopsy results, should have the results from the TESE by Tuesday at the latest.


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## AuCa

Fingers crossed for some good results!! :hugs::hugs:


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## Stinas

keziah23 - Good luck!!!!


As for me....we should be getting DH's SA results tom! I am scared! I hope the surgery worked!


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## awifey

keziah23 said:


> DH's surgery is tomorrow morning! I need to get to bed early since we have to be at the surgery center at 5:30am!

Best of luck! :hugs:


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## Deb111

Best of luck sting and keziah x x


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## MrsG30

Hi Girls.....
I hope you don't mind me jumping in but i'm not sure where to turn.
A bit about me, i'm 30 married coming up 2 years and have pcos. Not Massively but its there and i'm currently on metformin. This i can deal with, got a bit of weight to lose but i WILL do that.
on Tuesday my hubby had the worst possible news from his SA. Nothing there! he is away from home with work so i yet to see him and hes (and me) are heartbroken. The Dr thinks its adult mumps related???
We have got an appointment in less than 2 weeks time which im thankful its sooooo soon with fertility specialists at the centre for life in Newcastle.
Ive been reading everything possible online but i'm just no sure what is next? how long this process takes and really what my expectations should be?
I've some of your success stories which have stopped the tears but i must say i feel like my world is crumbling on round me.
Hope ive posted in the right place.

ps ladies- your all very brave and its so nice to have found a little hope in what ive read so far :)

Dannii


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## keziah23

We're home, surgery went well. Surgeon came out and said she looked under microscope and thinks its either hypospermatogenesis or maturation arrest but will have to wait for pathology, which can take 2 weeks, to know for sure. 
I got sooo pissed off. They brought me out the testis sample from the TESE and I rushed to get to the RE lab. Got over to the RE lab to drop off the tissue sample and the door was locked! I had to wait 10 minutes in a hallway trying to keep a human tissue sample at body temperature! Then the doctor there didn't know where the form I needed to sign was. Had to wait for office person who told me I was early!! I almost lost it.
Anyway, hubby is not in too much pain right now, he's lying down with an ice pack on and has only taken Tylenol so far. I'm going to go have a rest too.


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## Deb111

Glad hubby is ok keziah 

MrsG - I'm so sorry but you have definitely come to the right place - this is a fab group and has grown so much more than i ever expected when i started it. That makes me very sad on one hand but very pleased that people have somewhere to go for support.

Fab news that you have an appt so soon. There is a list of questions in a spoiler on the front page for appts. You will go through every emotion possible in the next few weeks and months. Don't give up hope, but stay realistic too. I hope hubby is home with you soon x


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## AuCa

Deb111 said:


> There is a list of questions in a spoiler on the front page for appts. You will go through every emotion possible in the next few weeks and months. Don't give up hope, but stay realistic too. I hope hubby is home with you soon x

Oh great, thanks for pointing that out (I totally missed that :blush:)! Since we're having our appt on Sunday, I think this will be very useful. 

keziah - glad your DH is well :hugs: Very annoying that the door was locked though. Seems like the place is not too organized.

MrsG30 - I'm new to the "azoo experience" as well, and I feel your pain :hugs::hugs: Great that you got an appointment so soon! Here it is usually a forever wait (the clinic we got referred to currently has a wait time for about 4 months; since I was not willing to wait that long we set up a private consultation with another clinic out of province).
Since we are also just at the beginning of the journey I can't be of much help re how long this will take/where it will lead us. I guess it all just depends on what they find (what caused the azoo, can sperm be retrieved through TESE etc).


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## Deb111

Glad hubby is ok keziah 

MrsG - I'm so sorry but you have definitely come to the right place - this is a fab group and has grown so much more than i ever expected when i started it. That makes me very sad on one hand but very pleased that people have somewhere to go for support.

Fab news that you have an appt so soon. There is a list of questions in a spoiler on the front page for appts. You will go through every emotion possible in the next few weeks and months. Don't give up hope, but stay realistic too. I hope hubby is home with you soon x


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## MrsG30

Deb111 said:


> Glad hubby is ok keziah
> 
> MrsG - I'm so sorry but you have definitely come to the right place - this is a fab group and has grown so much more than i ever expected when i started it. That makes me very sad on one hand but very pleased that people have somewhere to go for support.
> 
> Fab news that you have an appt so soon. There is a list of questions in a spoiler on the front page for appts. You will go through every emotion possible in the next few weeks and months. Don't give up hope, but stay realistic too. I hope hubby is home with you soon x

Hi Hun
thanks for the reply- ok ill go have a look, i was so sure he would be ok as after his mumps he was told its so rare for it to damage you to this extent or especilly in both testes!!
Im currently sitting trying to pull myself together for when he get home in the next few hours!!!

im a bit confused why in the UK we would need to pay for things? i see its costing 1000's to our overseas buddies
is it because of waiting times? xxx



AuCa said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> There is a list of questions in a spoiler on the front page for appts. You will go through every emotion possible in the next few weeks and months. Don't give up hope, but stay realistic too. I hope hubby is home with you soon x
> 
> Oh great, thanks for pointing that out (I totally missed that :blush:)! Since we're having our appt on Sunday, I think this will be very useful.
> 
> keziah - glad your DH is well :hugs: Very annoying that the door was locked though. Seems like the place is not too organized.
> 
> MrsG30 - I'm new to the "azoo experience" as well, and I feel your pain :hugs::hugs: Great that you got an appointment so soon! Here it is usually a forever wait (the clinic we got referred to currently has a wait time for about 4 months; since I was not willing to wait that long we set up a private consultation with another clinic out of province).
> Since we are also just at the beginning of the journey I can't be of much help re how long this will take/where it will lead us. I guess it all just depends on what they find (what caused the azoo, can sperm be retrieved through TESE etc).Click to expand...

Auca- it nice (but awful for you) that you understand- i finding hard to come to term with, my mum keeps saying just wit until your appointment and you will feel more positive but i just cant help feeling like this, i dont want my hubby to think its him thats making me so sad, so im trying my best.

its such a mess :( xxx


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## Deb111

MrsG - we could have had one round of ivf on the nhs but they were so useless and told us adopting or donor were our only options. We found our own private urologist as we weren't prepared to give up. The urologist could have put us through on the nhs but a gynacologist would have done hubbys op?!?!?! And egg collection would have had to have been done on a given day of the week?!?


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## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> Auca- it nice (but awful for you) that you understand- i finding hard to come to term with, my mum keeps saying just wit until your appointment and you will feel more positive but i just cant help feeling like this, i dont want my hubby to think its him thats making me so sad, so im trying my best.
> 
> its such a mess :( xxx

:hugs::hugs: I think it's important to acknowledge that you have a right to feel the way you feel right now. People will always give advice (my mom is also great at that - keeps telling me that I shouldn't turn into "one of those crazy women"), but in reality they have never been in this situation and really have no right whatsoever to tell us how we should feel or shouldn't.
This is hard, and you have every right to be sad, angry, frustrated, confused, or whatever else, about it! :hugs::hugs:

I'm sure your hubby feels very similar, he probably just doesn't show it the same way. My DH was devastated, still is. He first went into some sort of obsessive behavior, testing his sperm samples at home every day (that was back in December). At some time point he accepted that nothing changed, and he became sad, and also very insecure. I think he's still doubting if I'll stay with him, although I told him many times that it doesn't make a difference to me.

If things get really bad I'm also determined to drag DH to counseling. This is hard, but it shouldn't destroy our lives/relationships.

Anyway, just come here to vent, and be as emotional as you like :hugs: I find forums very helpful since it's a topic you can't really discuss with many ppl in "real life".


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## keziah23

SOOOOO! The lab called. ANOTHER screw up!!!! :growlmad:They didn't order all the proper STD blood work in order to be able to put our vials in the 'clean' tank. First is was irritated, then when it sunk in what he was saying I asked "does that mean that you found some" and he said "I can't go into details until the doctor releases the report but yes, we found some" WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO :happydance:
So hubby has to get more blood work tomorrow. 
There is still the freeze/thaw test to pass but this is the first good news we've had lately!


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## Stinas

keziah23 - YAY for finding sperm!!! woohooo

As for me...surgery didnt "Fix" DH! SA results came back the same today. We have an apt with the urologist on monday to see where we are going.....probably going to do another round of IVF with whatever frozen sperm we have left.


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## AuCa

Keziah - that's exciting!! :happydance::happydance: I'm very happy for you guys!

Stinas - oh no :hugs::hugs::hugs: Very sorry to hear that.


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## MrsG30

Deb111 said:


> MrsG - we could have had one round of ivf on the nhs but they were so useless and told us adopting or donor were our only options. We found our own private urologist as we weren't prepared to give up. The urologist could have put us through on the nhs but a gynacologist would have done hubbys op?!?!?! And egg collection would have had to have been done on a given day of the week?!?

Deb, whats the reason for DH azoo? were yet to find out but pretty sure it due to mumps, spoke to his parents tonight who said money is no object if we need it.
Hubby seems more positive now he is home nd we've chatted- said we will do everything possible to get what we want, i hope after our first appointment we feel the same way. i'm going to try an keep the tears at bay for now.
can i ask how much it cost? and i presume your hubby had some sperms in there which they managed to use for ivf?

my hubby tonight said although he isnt keen on the donor idea he would be prepared for it, he even suggested his brothers?? is that odd? who we have to pay fot this?
sorry for all the questions xx


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## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Auca- it nice (but awful for you) that you understand- i finding hard to come to term with, my mum keeps saying just wit until your appointment and you will feel more positive but i just cant help feeling like this, i dont want my hubby to think its him thats making me so sad, so im trying my best.
> 
> its such a mess :( xxx
> 
> :hugs::hugs: I think it's important to acknowledge that you have a right to feel the way you feel right now. People will always give advice (my mom is also great at that - keeps telling me that I shouldn't turn into "one of those crazy women"), but in reality they have never been in this situation and really have no right whatsoever to tell us how we should feel or shouldn't.
> This is hard, and you have every right to be sad, angry, frustrated, confused, or whatever else, about it! :hugs::hugs:
> 
> I'm sure your hubby feels very similar, he probably just doesn't show it the same way. My DH was devastated, still is. He first went into some sort of obsessive behavior, testing his sperm samples at home every day (that was back in December). At some time point he accepted that nothing changed, and he became sad, and also very insecure. I think he's still doubting if I'll stay with him, although I told him many times that it doesn't make a difference to me.
> 
> If things get really bad I'm also determined to drag DH to counseling. This is hard, but it shouldn't destroy our lives/relationships.
> 
> Anyway, just come here to vent, and be as emotional as you like :hugs: I find forums very helpful since it's a topic you can't really discuss with many ppl in "real life".Click to expand...


ah thanks for this. :hugs:

hubby does seem positive Tonight, think we really needed to be together (he was away with work) and needed to talk.
app is on th 21st i hope we feel positive after seeing the specialist?!?!?
obviously i hope we can get some sperm fro y hubby if not we know donor is an option, he even suggested his brothers tonight????? is that odd?


i know even know what will happen at our 1st appointment, lt alone what tests will follow?!?!?!?!?

im sure u feel like me, im keeping the tears at bay for now :hugs:
xxx


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## AuCa

Glad that you feel a bit better MrsG30! 
I think it really entirely depends on what you guys are comfortable with. I've seen a few ppl (online) using donor sperm provided by immediate family (such as brothers). Personally, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, but it's completely personal (I would also be fine with adopting for example). It's just very personal, and every couple needs to find their own solution I think :hugs:


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## raelynn

MrsG - When we were first going down the donor route, we briefly considered hubby's brother too. We decided it wouldn't work for us though since his brother and sister-in-law are trying to have a baby too (with female infertility) and it might just be weird if we had a baby using his brother's sperm before they did. Completely a personal choice though. I can see how having a blood relative would be nice to 'keep it in the family' so to speak but I like having an anonymous donor since I feel we can completely separate ourselves from the donor and this is 100% our baby. I feel like we might always be reminded of the baby not being biologically ours if the donor was a family member. But again, I see the positives and negatives of both sides and it is a completely personal decision.


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## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Glad that you feel a bit better MrsG30!
> I think it really entirely depends on what you guys are comfortable with. I've seen a few ppl (online) using donor sperm provided by immediate family (such as brothers). Personally, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, but it's completely personal (I would also be fine with adopting for example). It's just very personal, and every couple needs to find their own solution I think :hugs:




raelynn said:


> MrsG - When we were first going down the donor route, we briefly considered hubby's brother too. We decided it wouldn't work for us though since his brother and sister-in-law are trying to have a baby too (with female infertility) and it might just be weird if we had a baby using his brother's sperm before they did. Completely a personal choice though. I can see how having a blood relative would be nice to 'keep it in the family' so to speak but I like having an anonymous donor since I feel we can completely separate ourselves from the donor and this is 100% our baby. I feel like we might always be reminded of the baby not being biologically ours if the donor was a family member. But again, I see the positives and negatives of both sides and it is a completely personal decision.


ah ladies thanks for this. to be honest its my hubby who has suggested the idea as he has this whole "it wont even look like me" thing going on!!!
it something to think about as im sure it will bee a while before it comes to that.
does either of you know what the process is at our 1st appointment?

and raelynn- how long has it taken since azoo confirmed to getting where you are now?

:hugs::hugs: too you both xxx


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## awifey

:(
So initially after we received the lab results with zero sperm cells found I told husband he wouldn't have to do anything but quit smoking and caffeine, reduce alcohol, and take vitamins with folic acid for three months to see if that had any affect. 

I am regretting it the more I learn about azoo because now I want him to go to a doctor for further testing. 

We are living in Abu Dhabi for only 5 more months and medical care, while not always the best, is dirt cheap compared to what we get in America. 

I want to take care of what we can while we can kinda afford it and all he says to me is that I gave him 3 months and when he gave his sample, it was "weird".


----------



## tigerlily1975

:hi: lovely ladies,

I somehow managed to unsubscribe from the thread and missed all the news! :dohh:

MJ: CONGRATULATIONS darling!! :happydance: Mitchell is gooooorgeous! I hope you are reading this at home, with your little man in your arms. Such wonderful news, lovely, so, soooo happy for all of you! :wohoo:

AuCa: welcome! It's always sad to see someone else here, but it's good that you've found us :hugs:

MrsG: hello to you, too! The early days after the diagnosis are really, REALLY hard (understatement of the year). It feels very bleak right now, but once you start seeing doctors and come up with a plan, it gets a little easier :hugs:

keziah: that's fantastic news! :happydance: I hope hubby is recovering well. 

Stinas: I'm so sorry sweetie :hugs: This journey feels like one hit after another sometimes. I hoping really hard that the next IVF cycle is the one.

awifey: hello! Would your DH consider seeing a Dr for further testing? Good for you for changing diet/lifestyle! :hugs:

Big hello and :hugs: to Debs, SilverBell, SND, SunUp, Canadian, PinkLolly, DG, MoBaby, Raelynn, Arimas, HopefulCat, Bettis, loobylou, chickensoup and everyone else!

Just a quick update for us (still in LimboLand!).. Mr Ramsay (thanks again Deb and SilverBell!) is happy with DH's levels from taking the Clomid. DH has to provide a sample for SA the week after next and then we have an appointment for the results on the 22nd. He's hoping we'll find something which will give us a good idea before going for the fresh mTESE IVF/ICSI cycle hopefully in March. Not sure how the fresh cycle is going to work, but it's what we want to do rather than another frozen one. At this stage, as many of you know, it's such a gamble... a VERY expensive one, but you do what ya gotta do, right?!

Have a grand weekend, lovelies!

More :hugs:

C xx


----------



## MrsG30

total melt down from me twice now today- hopefully i will feel more positive after 1st appointment? xxx


----------



## tigerlily1975

MrsG30 said:


> total melt down from me twice now today- hopefully i will feel more positive after 1st appointment? xxx

It's completely normal, honestly it is. I remember when we got the diagnosis, we both ended up taking the day off work and just went home and cried. For days, weeks you feel quite empty and every baby/pregnant woman I saw was like a stab in the heart. It's like losing someone you love, you don't ever really get over it, you just find a way to cope with it - most of the time.

BUT, please don't feel it's over. Just reading through this thread you will find so many success stories. So many lovely ladies here now have little bundles of joy one way or another. Being in 'limbo' is the hardest part, once you start seeing doctors and come up with a plan, it's something to focus on and it really helps. 

Please don't be hard on yourself, you both need to take the time to come to terms with the news.

Sending you very big :hugs: :hugs:

C xx


----------



## MrsG30

tigerlily1975 said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> total melt down from me twice now today- hopefully i will feel more positive after 1st appointment? xxx
> 
> It's completely normal, honestly it is. I remember when we got the diagnosis, we both ended up taking the day off work and just went home and cried. For days, weeks you feel quite empty and every baby/pregnant woman I saw was like a stab in the heart. It's like losing someone you love, you don't ever really get over it, you just find a way to cope with it - most of the time.
> 
> BUT, please don't feel it's over. Just reading through this thread you will find so many success stories. So many lovely ladies here now have little bundles of joy one way or another. Being in 'limbo' is the hardest part, once you start seeing doctors and come up with a plan, it's something to focus on and it really helps.
> 
> Please don't be hard on yourself, you both need to take the time to come to terms with the news.
> 
> Sending you very big :hugs: :hugs:
> 
> C xxClick to expand...

ah thanks hun.
i feel like a pull myself together for a while- today we ordered some new furniture and i realized i had totally forgot about it. then i got so sad!
my app is a week on Thursday so its not too long.
i know all of you feel or have felt exactly like i do.
i just cant believe its happening.
what stage are you at? xxxx:hugs:


----------



## raelynn

MrsG30 said:


> raelynn said:
> 
> 
> MrsG - When we were first going down the donor route, we briefly considered hubby's brother too. We decided it wouldn't work for us though since his brother and sister-in-law are trying to have a baby too (with female infertility) and it might just be weird if we had a baby using his brother's sperm before they did. Completely a personal choice though. I can see how having a blood relative would be nice to 'keep it in the family' so to speak but I like having an anonymous donor since I feel we can completely separate ourselves from the donor and this is 100% our baby. I feel like we might always be reminded of the baby not being biologically ours if the donor was a family member. But again, I see the positives and negatives of both sides and it is a completely personal decision.
> 
> ah ladies thanks for this. to be honest its my hubby who has suggested the idea as he has this whole "it wont even look like me" thing going on!!!
> it something to think about as im sure it will bee a while before it comes to that.
> does either of you know what the process is at our 1st appointment?
> 
> and raelynn- how long has it taken since azoo confirmed to getting where you are now?
> 
> :hugs::hugs: too you both xxxClick to expand...




MrsG30 said:


> total melt down from me twice now today- hopefully i will feel more positive after 1st appointment? xxx


At our first appointment we just went over all our history with the fertility specialist. We went over the plan based on our previous testing and history and hubby got a referral to a urologist. We were also referred for blood work.

Since our initial azoospermia diagnosis to today it has been about 14 months. Hubby was confirmed with non obstructive azoospermia so he had a TESE operation. They found enough sperm for us to do IVF/ICSI with. We got two embryos out of it and I got pregnant but had a very early miscarriage. We still had one vial of sperm left but since we used two for the first round we didn't know if it was enough for another IVF round and hubby didn't really want to do another TESE with the risk that we could have another miscarriage since the sperm we were using wasn't mature so we moved to donor sperm with me on clomid because of PCOS. We got lucky on the first round of donor IUI and now we're expecting our little girl in June.

It is totally normal to feel down right now. I remember how devastating our initial diagnosis was. We were completely blindsided since we thought the issues were with me because of my PCOS. It also took hubby a long time to come to terms with it but open communication has helped us A LOT. We can even joke about it sometimes now. It'll be tough but you can get through it and this group is really a huge help with all the support and success stories. There are so many different ways to build your family too (IVF, donor, adoption) so don't give up hope!


----------



## MrsG30

raelynn said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> raelynn said:
> 
> 
> MrsG - When we were first going down the donor route, we briefly considered hubby's brother too. We decided it wouldn't work for us though since his brother and sister-in-law are trying to have a baby too (with female infertility) and it might just be weird if we had a baby using his brother's sperm before they did. Completely a personal choice though. I can see how having a blood relative would be nice to 'keep it in the family' so to speak but I like having an anonymous donor since I feel we can completely separate ourselves from the donor and this is 100% our baby. I feel like we might always be reminded of the baby not being biologically ours if the donor was a family member. But again, I see the positives and negatives of both sides and it is a completely personal decision.
> 
> ah ladies thanks for this. to be honest its my hubby who has suggested the idea as he has this whole "it wont even look like me" thing going on!!!
> it something to think about as im sure it will bee a while before it comes to that.
> does either of you know what the process is at our 1st appointment?
> 
> and raelynn- how long has it taken since azoo confirmed to getting where you are now?
> 
> :hugs::hugs: too you both xxxClick to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> total melt down from me twice now today- hopefully i will feel more positive after 1st appointment? xxxClick to expand...
> 
> 
> At our first appointment we just went over all our history with the fertility specialist. We went over the plan based on our previous testing and history and hubby got a referral to a urologist. We were also referred for blood work.
> 
> Since our initial azoospermia diagnosis to today it has been about 14 months. Hubby was confirmed with non obstructive azoospermia so he had a TESE operation. They found enough sperm for us to do IVF/ICSI with. We got two embryos out of it and I got pregnant but had a very early miscarriage. We still had one vial of sperm left but since we used two for the first round we didn't know if it was enough for another IVF round and hubby didn't really want to do another TESE with the risk that we could have another miscarriage since the sperm we were using wasn't mature so we moved to donor sperm with me on clomid because of PCOS. We got lucky on the first round of donor IUI and now we're expecting our little girl in June.
> 
> It is totally normal to feel down right now. I remember how devastating our initial diagnosis was. We were completely blindsided since we thought the issues were with me because of my PCOS. It also took hubby a long time to come to terms with it but open communication has helped us A LOT. We can even joke about it sometimes now. It'll be tough but you can get through it and this group is really a huge help with all the support and success stories. There are so many different ways to build your family too (IVF, donor, adoption) so don't give up hope!Click to expand...

you really do give me hope. i ave pcos which no doubt will complicate the process even further?
my hubby had a bad case of mumps about 8 yrs ago and i think that must be the reason?? do you know if this is likely to b noa or obstructive?
i have read lots of postive storied about mumps and the SSr?
have you used NHS or had to go private?

we do do everything possible to get what we want, i just want it now!!! I feel so selfish. Im trying not to let it take over my life.... just yet

14 month doesnt seen to bad esp since this isnt a first try? xxxx:hugs:


----------



## raelynn

MrsG30 said:


> you really do give me hope. i ave pcos which no doubt will complicate the process even further?
> my hubby had a bad case of mumps about 8 yrs ago and i think that must be the reason?? do you know if this is likely to b noa or obstructive?
> i have read lots of postive storied about mumps and the SSr?
> have you used NHS or had to go private?
> 
> we do do everything possible to get what we want, i just want it now!!! I feel so selfish. Im trying not to let it take over my life.... just yet
> 
> 14 month doesnt seen to bad esp since this isnt a first try? xxxx:hugs:

PCOS complicates things a little bit but with azoospermia you normally need to use some type of artificial reproductive method and you are normally on medication or being monitored for ovulation on that so then PCOS becomes less of an issue. It wasn't an issue at all for IVF since you're on injections and for IUI I just took the medication clomid to help me ovulate faster.

I think mumps would probably be noa but the urologist would have to check out your hubby to diagnose for sure. Just from my hubby's blood work and SA results, our fertility specialist was able to tell us it was most likely noa.

Can't answer the NHS or private question since I'm in the US

14 months wasn't terrible but of course it felt like forever to us while it was going on. Overall it took us 22 months to get to this pregnancy since when we first started trying. I can relate to wanting things to happen now. All the waiting is probably one of the hardest part of all this.


----------



## tigerlily1975

MrsG30 said:


> you really do give me hope. i ave pcos which no doubt will complicate the process even further?
> my hubby had a bad case of mumps about 8 yrs ago and i think that must be the reason?? do you know if this is likely to b noa or obstructive?
> i have read lots of postive storied about mumps and the SSr?
> have you used NHS or had to go private?
> 
> we do do everything possible to get what we want, i just want it now!!! I feel so selfish. Im trying not to let it take over my life.... just yet
> 
> 14 month doesnt seen to bad esp since this isnt a first try? xxxx:hugs:

It's interesting that you mention mumps, as that's the only thing our consultant can think is the cause. Although DH has no recollection of having mumps, nothing else jumps out from all the tests.

We went down the NHS route first. We didn't really know what else to do, our GP wasn't really clued-up on Azoo, but from what I've heard on here, that's not that unusual!

So, we went to see a consultant in obs & gyn at the hospital. DH had to do another SA (zero again) and they sent him off for blood tests, including genetic ones. Some consultants will order ultrasounds for the bits, but our consultant was happy with a 'fumble' (DH joked "he didn't even buy me dinner first!"). I also had some tests, too. As Raelynn says, once you go down the assisted conception route, it tends to bypass issues that might cause problems if you're TTC naturally - if only..

From the test results they knew it was NOA, so the only thing they could do was perform the TESE to see if there were any. If they find some they will freeze them and you move onto IVF/ICSI at a later stage. Depending on where you live in the UK, you can have a/some cycle/s funded by the NHS. 

We were incredibly lucky, as they found one, wiggly sperm on the second incision. I will point out that we were told by the embryologist that they basically remove tissue from the area and run off to the lab then analyze a very small amount. If they find something, they stop - in our case, anyhow. We found out on a later date that they had frozen four vials. Two they suspected had nothing, one had some immotile sperm and the other, the only wiggler. Well, this is from what they had analyzed, so no sure figure until defrost.

To cut a long story short (too late!), we had our one and only NHS cycle, but no fertilization sadly, which they suspect was down to the sperm quality. We've now moved onto private healthcare as we've no other option. The question of using a donor is one we've discussed many times, but it's just not sitting right with my DH. If this doesn't work, it's one that we will probably go over again, as I'm not sure we'll be able to afford another round of IVF and at my age, we don't have the time to save-up, but right now I have to respect his decision. 

It's a heck of a lot to handle, but you will find a way to deal with this. We have all felt exactly as you do right now. You want to scream "why us?!" and no, it really doesn't make any sense why something that is so simple (for what feels like almost everyone else), should be so hard for us. Do cry, the journey ahead will be tough at times, but you will get there. The appointment with the Dr will be here before you know it and the next thing you know you will have a plan of action towards getting your baby and one-day you will tell your child what you went through to have them and they will know how much they were wanted. 

Take care, hun :hugs:

C xx


----------



## MrsG30

tigerlily1975 said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> you really do give me hope. i ave pcos which no doubt will complicate the process even further?
> my hubby had a bad case of mumps about 8 yrs ago and i think that must be the reason?? do you know if this is likely to b noa or obstructive?
> i have read lots of postive storied about mumps and the SSr?
> have you used NHS or had to go private?
> 
> we do do everything possible to get what we want, i just want it now!!! I feel so selfish. Im trying not to let it take over my life.... just yet
> 
> 14 month doesnt seen to bad esp since this isnt a first try? xxxx:hugs:
> 
> It's interesting that you mention mumps, as that's the only thing our consultant can think is the cause. Although DH has no recollection of having mumps, nothing else jumps out from all the tests.
> 
> We went down the NHS route first. We didn't really know what else to do, our GP wasn't really clued-up on Azoo, but from what I've heard on here, that's not that unusual!
> 
> So, we went to see a consultant in obs & gyn at the hospital. DH had to do another SA (zero again) and they sent him off for blood tests, including genetic ones. Some consultants will order ultrasounds for the bits, but our consultant was happy with a 'fumble' (DH joked "he didn't even buy me dinner first!"). I also had some tests, too. As Raelynn says, once you go down the assisted conception route, it tends to bypass issues that might cause problems if you're TTC naturally - if only..
> 
> From the test results they knew it was NOA, so the only thing they could do was perform the TESE to see if there were any. If they find some they will freeze them and you move onto IVF/ICSI at a later stage. Depending on where you live in the UK, you can have a/some cycle/s funded by the NHS.
> 
> We were incredibly lucky, as they found one, wiggly sperm on the second incision. I will point out that we were told by the embryologist that they basically remove tissue from the area and run off to the lab then analyze a very small amount. If they find something, they stop - in our case, anyhow. We found out on a later date that they had frozen four vials. Two they suspected had nothing, one had some immotile sperm and the other, the only wiggler. Well, this is from what they had analyzed, so no sure figure until defrost.
> 
> To cut a long story short (too late!), we had our one and only NHS cycle, but no fertilization sadly, which they suspect was down to the sperm quality. We've now moved onto private healthcare as we've no other option. The question of using a donor is one we've discussed many times, but it's just not sitting right with my DH. If this doesn't work, it's one that we will probably go over again, as I'm not sure we'll be able to afford another round of IVF and at my age, we don't have the time to save-up, but right now I have to respect his decision.
> 
> It's a heck of a lot to handle, but you will find a way to deal with this. We have all felt exactly as you do right now. You want to scream "why us?!" and no, it really doesn't make any sense why something that is so simple (for what feels like almost everyone else), should be so hard for us. Do cry, the journey ahead will be tough at times, but you will get there. The appointment with the Dr will be here before you know it and the next thing you know you will have a plan of action towards getting your baby and one-day you will tell your child what you went through to have them and they will know how much they were wanted.
> 
> Take care, hun :hugs:
> 
> C xxClick to expand...

Hi hun, thanks for taking the time to write that- it really helps me. I keep trying to stray strong as dont want my hubby to think hes to blame for making me sad as i wouldn't change him , love the bones of him.
he had mumps at 20 and was in hospital over a week so were for-guessing this is the problem, im still hoping if it results in a TESE he has some swimmers- i would that for him more than anything???

we have discussed what happens if he has none! we know it has to be a donor? do you have any idea if we can use our own donor? my hubby has mentioned his brother- we haven't discussed it further as im not sure how i feel about that??

im in the north east and get 3 nhs ivf cycles as far as im aware but not sure on the waiting times?
can i ask the price s if you go private? PM me if you prefer- i dont want to be nosey.

how old are you both hun? is awful that were dealing with this but im pleased to have someone to talk too
thanks so much xxx:hugs:


----------



## MrsG30

raelynn said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> you really do give me hope. i ave pcos which no doubt will complicate the process even further?
> my hubby had a bad case of mumps about 8 yrs ago and i think that must be the reason?? do you know if this is likely to b noa or obstructive?
> i have read lots of postive storied about mumps and the SSr?
> have you used NHS or had to go private?
> 
> we do do everything possible to get what we want, i just want it now!!! I feel so selfish. Im trying not to let it take over my life.... just yet
> 
> 14 month doesnt seen to bad esp since this isnt a first try? xxxx:hugs:
> 
> PCOS complicates things a little bit but with azoospermia you normally need to use some type of artificial reproductive method and you are normally on medication or being monitored for ovulation on that so then PCOS becomes less of an issue. It wasn't an issue at all for IVF since you're on injections and for IUI I just took the medication clomid to help me ovulate faster.
> 
> I think mumps would probably be noa but the urologist would have to check out your hubby to diagnose for sure. Just from my hubby's blood work and SA results, our fertility specialist was able to tell us it was most likely noa.
> 
> Can't answer the NHS or private question since I'm in the US
> 
> 14 months wasn't terrible but of course it felt like forever to us while it was going on. Overall it took us 22 months to get to this pregnancy since when we first started trying. I can relate to wanting things to happen now. All the waiting is probably one of the hardest part of all this.Click to expand...

roll on the 21st!! hoping it makes us feel more postive!
hopefully my pcos will just be controlled for whatever treatent we need.

hope one day we end with the same result as you :):hugs: xxx


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi girls! I start my stims tomorrow morning. We're officially on our way! The past 12 days of Suprefact went by without a hitch! I'm using gonal-f and Luveris and go back on Feb 14 for a check. DH is getting nervous for his TESA and I am really nervous about the ER. We have donor backup and are really looking forward to saying that we did our best. I really, really hope this works for us. It's been such a long road.


----------



## raelynn

Good luck CM! Hoping you get good results from the TESA. My ER was really easy. The worst part was the IV. But I woke up from anesthesia like I had been napping, the hospital staff was super nice and attentive, and I just had slight cramping that day. Hopefully yours goes just as smoothly!


----------



## AuCa

Great news Canadian Maple! I hope IVF will work for you guys! 

MrsG30 - how are you doing? Hopefully you guys had a great weekend :hugs:

We had our consult today, finally some progress...on to more testing - 2nd SA, genetic testing (chr analysis and Y chr deletion analysis), blood tests for SA, and a hell of a lot blood tests for me.
I think the genetic testing will take the longest, but we'll see.
The doc was super nice, def felt we were in good hands.


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Great news Canadian Maple! I hope IVF will work for you guys!
> 
> MrsG30 - how are you doing? Hopefully you guys had a great weekend :hugs:
> 
> We had our consult today, finally some progress...on to more testing - 2nd SA, genetic testing (chr analysis and Y chr deletion analysis), blood tests for SA, and a hell of a lot blood tests for me.
> I think the genetic testing will take the longest, but we'll see.
> The doc was super nice, def felt we were in good hands.

Hi hin
Back at work today and hubby away to work away for a week- not sure how I feel to be honest but no meltdown yet- woohoo ha
Our app is 21st so hoping I will get on like you and start to feel more human- I feel massively impatient! I just wish the ball was rolling but not long to wait!
Pleased its all go for you- u feeling more positive? Xxx


----------



## MrsG30

Fab news Hun- bet ur feeling v positive xx
That was for you CM ha x


----------



## awifey

US people...how do these costs seem? Higher, lower?

IVF-ICSI: AED 28,000 (US$ 7,670). This includes the initial consultation on Day 2 of the period, ultrasound tests, hormone injections, blood tests until the first pregnancy test. The following are not included in the package: Blood tests (CBC, Blood Group for wife; HIV, HBS, HCV for both partners) at AED 1,800 ($493) which can be covered by your insurance, and an extra blood test to confirm the pregnancy at AED 150 ($41). There are also medication you need to buy at the pharmacy for maintaining the pregnancy, which would amount to around AED 280 ($77). If the cycle fails, then the next cycle will be discounted at AED 24,000 all inclusive.
Extra procedures or tests may be required: semen analysis (AED 250 or $68), vaginal swab (AED 250), freezing sperm or eggs (AED 2500/yr or $685), removing a cyst if found during the procedure (AED 4,000 or $1,095).
Mini-IVF: AED 18,000 ($4,930) excluding blood tests
Natural Cycle IVF: AED 14,000 ($3,835) all inclusive
Gender Selection: An additional AED 10,000 ($2,740). Testing for Down Syndrome is included while checking the gender, as well as 2 other chromosomes responsible for over 70% of miscarriages.
TESA: AED 7,000 ($1,917) excluding blood tests (CBC, Blood Group, PT, PTT) which would amount to AED 600 ($164).
IUI: AED 3,100 ($850) excluding consultations, blood tests and ultrasound tests
We are happy to inform you that starting February, if you are a UAE resident, you can pay in 12 monthly installments at 6.9% interest, provided you and your partner have a total income of at least AED 10,000/month.

If you live outside the UAE, we can help you! Just like many of our patients, you can start treatment for IVF locally (around 10 days of medication) and then come to the UAE for 10-14 days to do the egg collection, fertilization using ICSI, PGD to select the gender (if required), and embryo transfer. If you start treatment locally, you will have to keep us updated with the results of your ultrasound and blood tests by email, starting Day 2 of your period, so we can give you the right dosage of medication to take. Cost for IVF-ICSI in this case is AED 18,000 (US$ 4,930). This does not include the cost of any extra hormonal injections and blood tests you may need the first few days when you arrive, nor the consultation with the anesthesiologist ($82) nor does it include the treatment done in your country before coming to the United Arab Emirates. Please compare prices of the hormone injections so you can decide whether or not to bring some with you if you can buy them at a cheaper rate from your country.


----------



## deafgal01

Awifey that seems pretty close to what I see for the iui total cost here. No idea about Ivf. Your insurance must be good, I doubt mine will even cover the blood screening for pre-iui.


----------



## tigerlily1975

Good luck, Canadian!!! Keeping everything crossed for both of you! :hugs:

C xx


----------



## raelynn

Awifey - Those costs are similar to what we had for both IUI and IVF


----------



## keziah23

Got a call from the urologist office this morning (voicemail) confirming that they did save some sperm!!! :happydance:
Said we would go over the report more at followup. However followup is not for a month and I am not that patient so I sent them a message saying I wanted to see report before then. I'll badger them until they send it to me. Badgering is one of my many fine skills, LOl! Hubby is doing good, he went back to work today, he said the pain was not nearly as bad as he had envisioned it would be


----------



## AuCa

That's so great keziah!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
Go for it girl! (I wouldn't be patient enough to wait for a month either)


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> That's so great keziah!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
> Go for it girl! (I wouldn't be patient enough to wait for a month either)

hi hun
what further tests do you have to have? i curious as our 1st app is only a week away xx:hugs:


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> AuCa said:
> 
> 
> That's so great keziah!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
> Go for it girl! (I wouldn't be patient enough to wait for a month either)
> 
> hi hun
> what further tests do you have to have? i curious as our 1st app is only a week away xx:hugs:Click to expand...

Here is the list:

Me - a million blood tests (STDs, Day 3 hormone levels and some general stuff)

DH:
- 2nd semen analysis
- genetic testing (chromosome analysis + Y chromosome microdeletion analysis)
- blood tests (STDs, hormone levels)
- Ultrasounds to check for blockage in testes, and to check for cysts on prostate (those are not booked yet though, as the doc wanted to wait for the other results first); moreover, he thinks it's most likely non-obstructive azoo, since we had a handful of sperm (total of 9, to be exact) in his last SA

Hope that helps :flower:


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AuCa said:
> 
> 
> That's so great keziah!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
> Go for it girl! (I wouldn't be patient enough to wait for a month either)
> 
> hi hun
> what further tests do you have to have? i curious as our 1st app is only a week away xx:hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> Here is the list:
> 
> Me - a million blood tests (STDs, Day 3 hormone levels and some general stuff)
> 
> DH:
> - 2nd semen analysis
> - genetic testing (chromosome analysis + Y chromosome microdeletion analysis)
> - blood tests (STDs, hormone levels)
> - Ultrasounds to check for blockage in testes, and to check for cysts on prostate (those are not booked yet though, as the doc wanted to wait for the other results first); moreover, he thinks it's most likely non-obstructive azoo, since we had a handful of sperm (total of 9, to be exact) in his last SA
> 
> Hope that helps :flower:Click to expand...


Ive all a load of blood work don but no doubt it will need repeated!
thanks for run through- did they give you any time frame? :hugs:


----------



## Stinas

keziah - woohooooo!! Yayyy for finding sperm!!


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> Ive all a load of blood work don but no doubt it will need repeated!
> thanks for run through- did they give you any time frame? :hugs:

Time frame in regards to what specifically?
We'll probably have all the tests done within the next 1-2 months (genetic testing takes a few weeks here, SA is booked for mid March), and will then have to re-evaluate.
I think they're first trying to figure out what the cause of his azoospermia could be, before going forward with treatment (eg if it was certain genetic causes we maybe might not want to pass that on and would have to think about donor sperm, or if there is a blockage it could maybe be fixed).
We have another appointment end of March, and hopefully we'll find out then what the plan forward will be.


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Ive all a load of blood work don but no doubt it will need repeated!
> thanks for run through- did they give you any time frame? :hugs:
> 
> Time frame in regards to what specifically?
> We'll probably have all the tests done within the next 1-2 months (genetic testing takes a few weeks here, SA is booked for mid March), and will then have to re-evaluate.
> I think they're first trying to figure out what the cause of his azoospermia could be, before going forward with treatment (eg if it was certain genetic causes we maybe might not want to pass that on and would have to think about donor sperm, or if there is a blockage it could maybe be fixed).
> We have another appointment end of March, and hopefully we'll find out then what the plan forward will be.Click to expand...


you answered excatly what i wanted to know without me asking properly haha! 
im not sure what are timescales are like here but your sound reasonable enough. 
our appointment is 1 week tomorrow and i dont know if im excited, fearful or dreading it.at least i know we will get some answers and get the ball rolling.

im sure my hubbs;s is down to mumps but obviously im not a doctor! i will be surprised if its anything else. im just really hopihng they get "some" from him.

girls am i right in thinking if they do find some in my hubby it has to be IVF or can it be insemination? im confused about it. im wondering if they get some from hubby they will suggest ivf as his sperm would be more precious and ivf has more success? or is insemination used?

thanks again xxxx:hugs:


----------



## AuCa

I'm not a doc either, but I think you are probably right about your suspicion with the mumps.

I also think that the road will most likely lead you towards IVF (with ICSI), unless they can figure out a way to dramatically boost his numbers. I think even for just normal IVF (without ICSI, where they will inject one sperm) you need between 50 and 100,000 sperm. Not sure what they need for insemination, but I'd guess a million or more.
If they have to extract sperm from tissue I think they HAVE to do IVF with ICSI, as the quality is usually not the greatest (at least the clinics here told us that).


----------



## raelynn

AuCa is right about this. Unless they end up finding tons of sperm that were just blocked, the retrieval numbers would probably be very low so that would lead to IVF with ICSI


----------



## MrsG30

raelynn said:


> AuCa is right about this. Unless they end up finding tons of sperm that were just blocked, the retrieval numbers would probably be very low so that would lead to IVF with ICSI




AuCa said:


> I'm not a doc either, but I think you are probably right about your suspicion with the mumps.
> 
> I also think that the road will most likely lead you towards IVF (with ICSI), unless they can figure out a way to dramatically boost his numbers. I think even for just normal IVF (without ICSI, where they will inject one sperm) you need between 50 and 100,000 sperm. Not sure what they need for insemination, but I'd guess a million or more.
> If they have to extract sperm from tissue I think they HAVE to do IVF with ICSI, as the quality is usually not the greatest (at least the clinics here told us that).

ah as i expected ladies- you just put it in better terms, i under ICSI much more now, i presume thats why IVF AND Insemination with donor is much more successful?
im not clouded enough to think there going to find a load of sperm- im setting myself for this to be a fail then i cant feel any worse than i do.

thankyou again girls xxxx:hugs:


----------



## tulip11

hi everyone can I join you guys ? On February 12 we found out that DH is azoospermic no sperm was found in first SA analysis...that was quite unexpected result for us because we dont have any family history from both sides..Idk whether it has effected the results or not but the sample which we submitted for SA was very thin like you can say pre-ejaculatory fluid I even told to my DH that its not like what we used to have after intercouse sorry TMI...After BDing we usually have thick fluid but that was very thin and on the same day when we got back to home so he had masturbation later on so that time the actual semen came out which was very thick so DH said that look its the actual semen but what we submitted was very thin and diluted ( I want to mention that my DH did collect his sample in hospital toilet by masturbation ) now my DH ill be having blood tests on Monday and then second SA as well but still I dont believe first SA result...my question is that does thin sample as I mentioned above effects the result ? and is it possible that we can get different result in 2nd SA ? we are completly heart broken now life is meaningless to us...any positive feedback..


----------



## keziah23

Hey all. Got the report from the TESE back and need some help interpreting it. We don't see the doc until the 6th of March

Total Sperm Count .01 Million
4 vials frozen
475ul per vial

Major defect: elongated spermotaza
Second major defect: mid-piece damage
Also observed small population of broken head/tail

Pre and post thaw motitlity and progression both 0%

round cells-TNTC (too numerous to count)


----------



## AuCa

Hi Tulip, and welcome on this thread :hugs: I think I remember you from another thread, but not sure which one....
Anyway, I'm very sorry that you guys got the azoo diagnosis. I don't want to discourage you, and I think you should definitely do a 2nd SA, but azoospermia doesn't have much to do with genetics/family history. My husband doesn't have a family history of it either, and his brother just had a baby boy.
I don't know if the consistency has much to do with the result, to be honest. Did he abstain for at least 3 days?
How he gave his sample is very normal; here every man has to give the sample at the semen lab in the hospital (I know there is some places where ppl can do it at home and then bring it, but they don't allow this here).

Unfortunately you won't know for sure until he had his 2nd SA. However, even if something had gone wrong in his first SA, it would surprise me if it would have come up with zero (as it did in your case).

I know this is tough, but being diagnosed with azoospermia doesn't mean that there is no hope whatsoever. There is still options. Make sure you see a good specialist and get everything checked out. If his 2nd SA comes back with zero too, make sure your DH also gets genetic testing and ultrasounds done, etc. But a specialized urologist or RE will most likely do this anyway.
Good luck, and keep us updated :hugs:


----------



## tulip11

thanks AuCa.yeah he abstained for 3-4 days. DH ill be having blood tests on Monday before 2nd SA...and GP has already referred us to FS we ill get app letter in four weeks...


----------



## maybeBmommy

Hi, I'm very emotional joining this group, as I never thought it was possible. (Don't we all say that?)
Happy Valentines Day to us, DH's SA dame back with zero sperm found. My oxygen has been no help, saying I should just search for a donor sperm, is that really the next step? Is there anyway I can have a child with my husbands genetics? We are completely devastated. Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you.


----------



## CanadianMaple

maybeBmommy said:


> Hi, I'm very emotional joining this group, as I never thought it was possible. (Don't we all say that?)
> Happy Valentines Day to us, DH's SA dame back with zero sperm found. My oxygen has been no help, saying I should just search for a donor sperm, is that really the next step? Is there anyway I can have a child with my husbands genetics? We are completely devastated. Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you.

I'm so sorry. Those first few weeks are so hard. We found out just before Christmas last year. It was so devastating. 

Right now, we are in the process of doing IVF/ICSI. DH is having a TESA (needle biopsy) to see if he has sperm and if not, we are going to use donor sperm. It took a long time to get to this point emotionally and with the clinic. We really hope that we find sperm in DH but if not, we are looking at the donor sperm as a half adoption but I get to control the gestation. 

There are lots of babies on here that have come from sperm they have found from their partner/husband. Some people have chosen the donor sperm route because it's quicker and doesn't cost as much as IVF/ICSI with a TESE or a TESA. Just be prepared that there will waiting for results and between appointments and as hard as it is, you will process everything during that time.

You're in such an amazing group of women and we are all here for you. Many of us have all taken different routes, but there are many azoo babies on the other side of this.


----------



## AuCa

maybeBmommy said:


> Hi, I'm very emotional joining this group, as I never thought it was possible. (Don't we all say that?)
> Happy Valentines Day to us, DH's SA dame back with zero sperm found. My oxygen has been no help, saying I should just search for a donor sperm, is that really the next step? Is there anyway I can have a child with my husbands genetics? We are completely devastated. Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you.

I'm very sorry :hugs::hugs::hugs:
I also found it almost offensive when DH's doc told us right after his SA that we would probably have to consider donor sperm or adoption. That's definitely not what you should say to a couple that just got that type of diagnosis :growlmad:. And then he went on giving us his opinion about getting donor sperm from relatives (he didn't think it was a good idea). I was honestly really irritated after that.

What you will be able to do depends I think. They'll first have to figure out what the cause for the azoospermia is (if they can find one), and then if they can find sperm somewhere (through TESE or similar procedures).

We are also still in the beginning stages, and I have no idea what will be down the road. But there is definitely a lot of support here, for which I'm very grateful. I wish you all the best, and keep us updated :hugs:


----------



## CanadianMaple

Oh yes, you are going to hear a lot of crap from people about "just" adopting or "just" using a donor. It still drives me crazy.

If I could do things differently, I would have not told as many people about the azoo. Everyone who knows about it also knows we are doing IVF and DH is having his biopsy and I hope they just assume we find sperm in him. I know everyone is supportive, but there is so much to work through about donor sperm. I kept that as a back burner thought while we worked out what was wrong with DH and decided what we wanted.

How are your husbands coping? Mine was always 2 steps behind me with coping. He was in denial for awhile while I think I read every single google hit for azoospermia I could find...


----------



## Deb111

So sorry to see more people getting this diagnosis :nope: but you've found a far group of women.

Tulip - I may be telling you what you already know and may be making an assumption here but at what point was the sample very thin? Was it immediately? Semen liquifies in a few minutes and turns from being thick to very watery pretty quickly.

Keziah - wonderful news

ladies - I'm so sorry I don't get on here much these days. I try and catch up when I can and think if you all often.

If you can all post a couple if sentences about where you are with your journey atm, starting with your name so i can just copy and paste, i will try and update front page at the weekend x x


----------



## MrsG30

CanadianMaple said:


> Oh yes, you are going to hear a lot of crap from people about "just" adopting or "just" using a donor. It still drives me crazy.
> 
> If I could do things differently, I would have not told as many people about the azoo. Everyone who knows about it also knows we are doing IVF and DH is having his biopsy and I hope they just assume we find sperm in him. I know everyone is supportive, but there is so much to work through about donor sperm. I kept that as a back burner thought while we worked out what was wrong with DH and decided what we wanted.
> 
> How are your husbands coping? Mine was always 2 steps behind me with coping. He was in denial for awhile while I think I read every single google hit for azoospermia I could find...

CM- when i see what you write its like i have just wrote it! ts awful isnt it :(


----------



## tulip11

Deb111 DH sample was diluted when he put in container ...to me and DH it looks like pre-ejaculatory liquid...DH said that I was not totally aroused ...but as I mentioned later on in home his ejaculate was thick like true semen...


----------



## AuCa

CanadianMaple said:


> How are your husbands coping? Mine was always 2 steps behind me with coping. He was in denial for awhile while I think I read every single google hit for azoospermia I could find...

Exactly the same. I find that we deal with the situation very differently. I'm like you - researching every bit of information I can find, whereas DH seems to mostly ignore the topic. He doesn't talk about it much, and I think he's still somewhat in denial. But at least not so much that he refuses to get tests done/think about treatment.

It's hard to support each other when you work so differently. I'd really like to support him, but I'm not sure how. I feel better when I talk about things, but I think it's the exact opposite for him.
Do you guys talk about it much? How long did it take for your husband to come around and accept the diagnosis?


----------



## AuCa

Deb111 said:


> ladies - I'm so sorry I don't get on here much these days. I try and catch up when I can and think if you all often.
> 
> If you can all post a couple if sentences about where you are with your journey atm, starting with your name so i can just copy and paste, i will try and update front page at the weekend x x

Hi Deb! And congrats to your beautiful daughter, she looks so adorable on the picture!

Here are my few words (there is not much yet as we are still in the testing phase):
AuCa - DH diagnosed Jan 2013, doing tests, next consultation with specialist end of March


----------



## maybeBmommy

MaybeBmommy: TTC 13months, HSG Feb 2013 showed perfect, DH-zero SA feb 2013, Urologist apt March 25


----------



## maybeBmommy

CanadianMaple said:


> Oh yes, you are going to hear a lot of crap from people about "just" adopting or "just" using a donor. It still drives me crazy.
> 
> If I could do things differently, I would have not told as many people about the azoo. Everyone who knows about it also knows we are doing IVF and DH is having his biopsy and I hope they just assume we find sperm in him. I know everyone is supportive, but there is so much to work through about donor sperm. I kept that as a back burner thought while we worked out what was wrong with DH and decided what we wanted.
> 
> How are your husbands coping? Mine was always 2 steps behind me with coping. He was in denial for awhile while I think I read every single google hit for azoospermia I could find...

My husband is definitely in the denial stage. I have been crying and out of work since the diagnosis. We have had people from church come over, and talked with family and his response to them seems to be "I'm not worried, I have a a peace in me and I just know that I will produce a child". To me I'm like are you crazy? You have ZERO sperm??? (Mind you I don't say this out loud) I don't know, I guess I'm just searching for more emotion from him....like he just doesn't understand how seriously intense is is going to get.


----------



## AuCa

maybeBmommy said:


> MaybeBmommy: TTC 13months, HSG Feb 2013 showed perfect, DH-zero SA feb 2013, Urologist apt March 25

Our next appointment is on the exact same day! :)



> I don't know, I guess I'm just searching for more emotion from him....like he just doesn't understand how seriously intense is is going to get.

I also think he's in denial, doesn't want to confront the facts. I'm sorry you are going through this :hugs::hugs::hugs: It seems like you have some good support through your family/community which is great.


----------



## Chickensoup85

There are so many new people on here! Hello! Sorry you have this horrible diagnosis, but welcome to the forum.



> How are your husbands coping? Mine was always 2 steps behind me with coping.

Mine is exactly the same; after we got the diagnosis I knew and accepted that if we could find sperm it would be IVF with icsi. For quite a while OH still thought there was a chance of natural conception. It wasn't until our appointment when the doc told him our options it sunk in and he was really upset that we would have to go through assisted conception. I was really shocked that he hadn't realised what was happening as he won't talk about it.

Chickensoup - azoo diagnosis in oct 2012. mTESE booked for 1.3.13 (2 weeks to go!).


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## loobylou_01

Loobylou_01 - pregnant with azoo baby no. 2, due 29/04/13.

Good luck to all you other ladies going through this, you will come out the other side and once you're all mummys I promise you its worth every single second of this horrendous journey x x x


----------



## maybeBmommy

I have a rookie question.

What are the funding resources you guys have used? My insurance does not cover infertility. Do you know if they require total cost up front, or payments? Help!


----------



## tulip11

I have questionS that may sounds stupid but I do wanna know...is there any possibility in azoospermic case that FS put someone on medications only and that lead to success ? another question is that we are going to have second SA on Monday I am just wondering is there anyone out there who got different results from first SA means they found out some sperms in second SA ?


----------



## MrsG30

MrsG30- pcos 14/1/13, azoo 05/02/13 :( first fertility appoinment 21/2/13 :)


----------



## MrsG30

tulip11 said:


> I have questionS that may sounds stupid but I do wanna know...is there any possibility in azoospermic case that FS put someone on medications only and that lead to success ? another question is that we are going to have second SA on Monday I am just wondering is there anyone out there who got different results from first SA means they found out some sperms in second SA ?


Tulip11- Ive been thinking the same as we only got ut our azoo diagnose a week ago but i dont want to force myself to believe everything will be ok on the next SA
Im preparing myself for the same outome an trying to look forward to hearing what treatment we can use.

its horrendous and i really do know you feel :hugs::hugs:


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## tulip11

MrsG30 we also found out on 12th february...but truly saying the result was quite unexpected for us..I hope that our SA results ill come out with some hope...GL to you and your DH ..thanks..:hugs::hugs: we are completely heartbroken since knowing this result for us now this world I mean everything seems meaningless...:thumbup:


----------



## Jimmysrabbit

Hello Ladies, can I join you? 
I've been "lurking" around this thread since our Azoo diagnosis in May 2012. We were put on the NHS waiting list for a consultation (which in Wales is supposed to be 5 months), which we finally had it on the 21st January. In the meantime we had a private consultation to find out our options. We found out yesterday (the follow up appt to the various blood tests they took in January) that DH is a cystic fibrosis carrier and as a "symptom" of his CF carrier status his vas def are missing. Of course this is terrible news, but at least we had a reason for his Azoo. The urologist was also quite optimistic about finding sperm using TESA as DH's FSH and testosterone levels are all good. So now we are waiting again, NHS have said anywhere between 2-5 months for the TESA. We are finding out from the private clinic if we can transfer any retrieved sperm to them and they can carry out the IVF and ICIS (I just turned 38 and the NHS waiting list in Wales is 2 years for IVF). Paying privately for the TESA at the private clinic is £3K which we cannot afford on top of the IVF/ICIS. It is sad to be here, but nice to know that other people know what we are going through.

Deborah


----------



## MrsG30

tulip11 said:


> MrsG30 we also found out on 12th february...but truly saying the result was quite unexpected for us..I hope that our SA results ill come out with some hope...GL to you and your DH ..thanks..:hugs::hugs: we are completely heartbroken since knowing this result for us now this world I mean everything seems meaningless...:thumbup:


GL too you too- there are lots of options and treatments out there- you have to stay strong or each other hun xx:hugs:


----------



## tulip11

My DH ill be having blood tests on Monday...so if there would be any problem with hormones levels so in that case would they put my DH on medications ?


----------



## MrsG30

tulip11 said:


> My DH ill be having blood tests on Monday...so if there would be any problem with hormones levels so in that case would they put my DH on medications ?

From what i gather from the other girls- after the initial diagnose your hubby will have further SA, bloods, genetic tests so they can determine the cause of the azoo? if its obstructive or non obstructive and after that plan a treatmen plan.

I have heard of medication for hormone levels yes but im not sure if this would change the result to enable normal conception as having a 0 count is different to having a low count.
please jump in girls if im wrong?

tulip hun- do lots of research and prepare yourself for a long hard slog and you will get there 1 way or the other- thats how im trying to think xxx


----------



## tulip11

MrsG30 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> My DH ill be having blood tests on Monday...so if there would be any problem with hormones levels so in that case would they put my DH on medications ?
> 
> From what i gather from the other girls- after the initial diagnose your hubby will have further SA, bloods, genetic tests so they can determine the cause of the azoo? if its obstructive or non obstructive and after that plan a treatmen plan.
> 
> I have heard of medication for hormone levels yes but im not sure if this would change the result to enable normal conception as having a 0 count is different to having a low count.
> please jump in girls if im wrong?
> 
> tulip hun- do lots of research and prepare yourself for a long hard slog and you will get there 1 way or the other- thats how im trying to think xxxClick to expand...

I did alot of research since we came to know about his condition...but I didnt find any thing proper based on medication treatment...like now we ill be having second SA and blood tests on Monday and GP said that they have already referred us to FS ( Urologist) and we ill get our app letter within four weeks...for me these 4 weeks are like 4 decades cant wait any more ...


----------



## MrsG30

tulip11 said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> My DH ill be having blood tests on Monday...so if there would be any problem with hormones levels so in that case would they put my DH on medications ?
> 
> From what i gather from the other girls- after the initial diagnose your hubby will have further SA, bloods, genetic tests so they can determine the cause of the azoo? if its obstructive or non obstructive and after that plan a treatmen plan.
> 
> I have heard of medication for hormone levels yes but im not sure if this would change the result to enable normal conception as having a 0 count is different to having a low count.
> please jump in girls if im wrong?
> 
> tulip hun- do lots of research and prepare yourself for a long hard slog and you will get there 1 way or the other- thats how im trying to think xxxClick to expand...
> 
> I did alot of research since we came to know about his condition...but I didnt find any thing proper based on medication treatment...like now we ill be having second SA and blood tests on Monday and GP said that they have already referred us to FS ( Urologist) and we ill get our app letter within four weeks...for me these 4 weeks are like 4 decades cant wait any more ...Click to expand...

i agree about the medication front- i have found out alot of tese, donor, insemination and IVF. DH and i have just done plenty of talking and agreeing our way forward whatever is thrown at us.

my 1st appointment is thursday and im bricking it :dohh:


----------



## tulip11

MrsG30 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> My DH ill be having blood tests on Monday...so if there would be any problem with hormones levels so in that case would they put my DH on medications ?
> 
> From what i gather from the other girls- after the initial diagnose your hubby will have further SA, bloods, genetic tests so they can determine the cause of the azoo? if its obstructive or non obstructive and after that plan a treatmen plan.
> 
> I have heard of medication for hormone levels yes but im not sure if this would change the result to enable normal conception as having a 0 count is different to having a low count.
> please jump in girls if im wrong?
> 
> tulip hun- do lots of research and prepare yourself for a long hard slog and you will get there 1 way or the other- thats how im trying to think xxxClick to expand...
> 
> I did alot of research since we came to know about his condition...but I didnt find any thing proper based on medication treatment...like now we ill be having second SA and blood tests on Monday and GP said that they have already referred us to FS ( Urologist) and we ill get our app letter within four weeks...for me these 4 weeks are like 4 decades cant wait any more ...Click to expand...
> 
> i agree about the medication front- i have found out alot of tese, donor, insemination and IVF. DH and i have just done plenty of talking and agreeing our way forward whatever is thrown at us.
> 
> my 1st appointment is thursday and im bricking it :dohh:Click to expand...

All the best May you guys find an easiest and fastest way to get your BFP :thumbup:


----------



## tigerlily1975

Jimmysrabbit said:


> Hello Ladies, can I join you?
> I've been "lurking" around this thread since our Azoo diagnosis in May 2012. We were put on the NHS waiting list for a consultation (which in Wales is supposed to be 5 months), which we finally had it on the 21st January. In the meantime we had a private consultation to find out our options. We found out yesterday (the follow up appt to the various blood tests they took in January) that DH is a cystic fibrosis carrier and as a "symptom" of his CF carrier status his vas def are missing. Of course this is terrible news, but at least we had a reason for his Azoo. The urologist was also quite optimistic about finding sperm using TESA as DH's FSH and testosterone levels are all good. So now we are waiting again, NHS have said anywhere between 2-5 months for the TESA. We are finding out from the private clinic if we can transfer any retrieved sperm to them and they can carry out the IVF and ICIS (I just turned 38 and the NHS waiting list in Wales is 2 years for IVF). Paying privately for the TESA at the private clinic is £3K which we cannot afford on top of the IVF/ICIS. It is sad to be here, but nice to know that other people know what we are going through.
> 
> Deborah

Hello Deborah :hi:

I'm so sorry to see you here, but welcome :hugs: It sounds like you have a great plan in place, hopefully you won't have to wait too long for the TESA appointment!

:hugs:

C xx


----------



## Verity Belle

Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :( 
Verity xx


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## MrsG30

Verity Belle said:


> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx

weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xx


----------



## jokerman

Hello all. I am new here, a 30 year old azoospermic male, ttc with my 33 year old wife.

Found out about this last summer. After the first blank SA, I really hoped a mistake had been made, that I hadn't "given it my best shot". Alas, it was not to be, and a 2nd SA confirmed the diagnosis. In a bittersweet twist of fate, the result of the 2nd SA and the confirmation of the diagnosis was communicated to me within an hour of my nephew being born. I was of course thrilled with the successful birth of my first nephew, but I couldn't help but think that life has a funny way of teasing you sometimes.

The worst part of all of this of course is the guilt. If the IF problems were with my wife, I could get over the prospect of a life without kids. But I cannot get over the fact that my beautiful wife must suffer as a consequence of my diagnosis. At times I feel like a criminal who has robbed her and her family of their hopes and dreams. It is for that, that I will move mountains to ensure we can raise our own family. No options will ever be off the table as far as I'm concerned and in fact, I seem to be more comfortable than her with potentially using donor sperm in future. 

Anyway, I did the usual tests after the second SA. On physical inspection, nothing was wrong. The first three doctors to look at my bloodwork all said that my hormones were normal, but a fourth doctor has said that my FSH was a little high, and my testosterone borderline low-average. I started 12.5mg of Clomid daily back in October. Next week, I am going for an mTESE. I don't even know what result I want - if we find sperm, then it probably means IVF with ICSI, and I know I will hate that my wife is putting herself through IVF just to give us a chance of having a biological child. If we don't find sperm, I think my wife will be more upset than me and I don't want to upset her anymore. Everywhere along this journey,whenever we have received news, it has always been the worst possible news. I guess, what I really want, is to come through the surgery with my vital organs intact. 

To all you in the same situation as us, I'm sorry for you and I wish you well.


----------



## Jojo27

Hi all,
This is my first post in this thread.
My DH has azoospermia, and had his mtese in January, we get the results a week tomorrow, so, so nervous.
Joker, your wife will get through this regardless of what the results will be. Are you from the uk? X


----------



## Verity Belle

MrsG30 said:


> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xxClick to expand...

Thank you :flower: sorry you are going through this too :hugs:


----------



## Chickensoup85

Jokerman, it's so nice to hear about azoospermia from a male perspective. My husband doesn't talk about his feelings but from the little I can piece together, he feel similar to you. After our first appointment following the diagnosis, he suggested we went straight to donor sperm to avoid me having to go through ivf. He has no doubts about donor sperm what so ever and is far more comfortable with the idea than me. 

I, like your wife I am sure, in no way what so ever blame my husband for what we are going through and only see it as *our* problem, not his fault.


----------



## MrsG30

Verity Belle said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you :flower: sorry you are going through this too :hugs:Click to expand...

are you in the uk? what the next step for you? we have our 1st specialist appointment on thursday :hugs:xxx


----------



## MrsG30

Chickensoup85 said:


> Jokerman, it's so nice to hear about azoospermia from a male perspective. My husband doesn't talk about his feelings but from the little I can piece together, he feel similar to you. After our first appointment following the diagnosis, he suggested we went straight to donor sperm to avoid me having to go through ivf. He has no doubts about donor sperm what so ever and is far more comfortable with the idea than me.
> 
> I, like your wife I am sure, in no way what so ever blame my husband for what we are going through and only see it as *our* problem, not his fault.

couldnt have put it better myself :hugs:
chicken- My DH has exactly the same views!!! xxx


----------



## Verity Belle

MrsG30 said:


> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you :flower: sorry you are going through this too :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> are you in the uk? what the next step for you? we have our 1st specialist appointment on thursday :hugs:xxxClick to expand...

Yes we love just outside London. My Hubby has to go have blood rest to check hormone levels I guess and then do another SA at the beginning of April. Then we go from there depending on our options. I have had blood tests and been poked and prodded since Oct when we first went to the Dr so now it's his turn


----------



## jokerman

Jojo27 said:


> Hi all,
> This is my first post in this thread.
> My DH has azoospermia, and had his mtese in January, we get the results a week tomorrow, so, so nervous.
> Joker, your wife will get through this regardless of what the results will be. Are you from the uk? X

Hi Jojo, no, actually, I'm from the UK originally but living in the Caribbean for a number of years. Our treatment options all involve trips to the East Coast of the US, mostly NY and NJ.


----------



## jokerman

I should also had that I had an undescended testicle when I was born, which was corrected by orchidopexy at 4 years of age. The doctors I have spoken to all seem to think that the other testicle should be fine but it quite obviously isn't, otherwise we wouldn't be this situation. I guess I'll find out next week!


----------



## jokerman

Jojo27 said:


> Hi all,
> This is my first post in this thread.
> My DH has azoospermia, and had his mtese in January, we get the results a week tomorrow, so, so nervous.
> Joker, your wife will get through this regardless of what the results will be. Are you from the uk? X

Oh, I thought mTese results would be known on the day of the procedure? I didn't realise there was a waiting period. Good luck to you both anyway.


----------



## Jojo27

jokerman said:


> Jojo27 said:
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> This is my first post in this thread.
> My DH has azoospermia, and had his mtese in January, we get the results a week tomorrow, so, so nervous.
> Joker, your wife will get through this regardless of what the results will be. Are you from the uk? X
> 
> Oh, I thought mTese results would be known on the day of the procedure? I didn't realise there was a waiting period. Good luck to you both anyway.Click to expand...

Well I thought this too, but I am thinking it maybe because we got treatment through the nhs. My DH had a hernia as a baby and the consultant thinks this may be the reason behind he's infertility x x


----------



## Chickensoup85

I assumed it was too but when I asked the urologist, he said that he wouldn't tell us the results that day because the samples of the biopsy needed to be sent off to have closer look under a more powerful microscope. I can't remember what he called it.


----------



## Chickensoup85

Did anyone's OH eat anything special or take any vitamin before the TESEto make sure if they found anything it was better quality? Or does it not work like that for azoospermia?


----------



## Chickensoup85

Me again, having a minor (aka major) freak out about mTESE. 

Should we have gone with the TESE? It seems less invasive... Have we made a mistake?? 

At the same time as mTESE OH is having transurethral resection of ejaculatory ducts to unblock his tubes. Is this too much is one go? What if normal sperm production occurs after the unblocking and mTESE wasn't needed? If OH went through so much when it wasn't needed...

And, my biggest worry, what is any sperm they find doesn't survive the thaw? I asked the urologist if we should do a fresh cycle and he said no because there is no evidence of fresh sperm being more successful at fertilisation than frozen sperm but neglected to mention it probably won't survive the thaw! 

I feel like I have been duped and that I have jumped in feet first without getting a second opinion first. We have had to go private because, due to our age, we are not eligable on the NHS; of course he is going to tell us to go ahead with all this, he stands to make a fortune from us!


----------



## MrsG30

Chickensoup85 said:


> Me again, having a minor (aka major) freak out about mTESE.
> 
> Should we have gone with the TESE? It seems less invasive... Have we made a mistake??
> 
> At the same time as mTESE OH is having transurethral resection of ejaculatory ducts to unblock his tubes. Is this too much is one go? What if normal sperm production occurs after the unblocking and mTESE wasn't needed? If OH went through so much when it wasn't needed...
> 
> And, my biggest worry, what is any sperm they find doesn't survive the thaw? I asked the urologist if we should do a fresh cycle and he said no because there is no evidence of fresh sperm being more successful at fertilisation than frozen sperm but neglected to mention it probably won't survive the thaw!
> 
> I feel like I have been duped and that I have jumped in feet first without getting a second opinion first. We have had to go private because, due to our age, we are not eligable on the NHS; of course he is going to tell us to go ahead with all this, he stands to make a fortune from us!

hi hun
whats the difference? and can you have both done if need be? im totally confused xx :hugs:


----------



## MrsG30

Verity Belle said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you :flower: sorry you are going through this too :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> are you in the uk? what the next step for you? we have our 1st specialist appointment on thursday :hugs:xxxClick to expand...
> 
> Yes we love just outside London. My Hubby has to go have blood rest to check hormone levels I guess and then do another SA at the beginning of April. Then we go from there depending on our options. I have had blood tests and been poked and prodded since Oct when we first went to the Dr so now it's his turnClick to expand...


we are in the north east- its will be good to keep up to date as its sounds like were at very similar stages, plus the NHS worries me- mainly waiting times! xx


----------



## Soili

Chickensoup, if you feel unsure and rushed, my honest opinion would be to take a bit of time to figure things out. If you're going private, you should have a bit more flexibility with scheduling things. Talk to your husband, do your research, talk to the doctor about your doubts if needed as well. A month or two won't make a difference. But do also know that in this TTC business there will always be doubt and uncertainty and questions will be coming up along the way. You make the best decision you can at the current time and circumstances. And just hope that things will work out. There's nothing more you can do.


----------



## Chickensoup85

> whats the difference? and can you have both done if need be? im totally confused

I always thought mTESE was less invasive, and in a way it seems to be because they take smaller amounts of tissue asthey able to be more precise. However, instead of going through the skin, the peel back the skin to expose the testies. I think this is correct, read some many conflicting things on google! 

I think I am just worried for my husband and his recovery really because I feel like he is only doing this for me, as he is happy to use donor sperm.


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thank you Soili. I think it's just an attack of nerves but I will email the urologist with my concerns.


----------



## jokerman

Chickensoup85 said:


> Did anyone's OH eat anything special or take any vitamin before the TESEto make sure if they found anything it was better quality? Or does it not work like that for azoospermia?

I will begin a dose of doxycycline (100mg twice a day for 7 days leading up to the procedure) prior to the mTese. This is a common anti-bacterial medicine and its purpose here is to destroy any sperm antibodies which may be damaging sperm. Other than that, and the clomid that I have been taking for the past 4 months, I have not been instructed to take anything else.


----------



## Jojo27

Chickensoup85 said:


> whats the difference? and can you have both done if need be? im totally confused
> 
> I always thought mTESE was less invasive, and in a way it seems to be because they take smaller amounts of tissue asthey able to be more precise. However, instead of going through the skin, the peel back the skin to expose the testies. I think this is correct, read some many conflicting things on google!
> 
> I think I am just worried for my husband and his recovery really because I feel like he is only doing this for me, as he is happy to use donor sperm.Click to expand...

I am assuming my DH had mtese! He had tissue removed from each testical. And a few stitches. 
Don't worry re recovery, he will be fine. Mine had op on Monday morn and was back in work on the wed, however they do advise 7-10 days off work, but I suppose it depends what they do job wise. He was in quite a bit of pain and badly bruised but was ok x x


----------



## jokerman

Chickensoup85 said:


> Me again, having a minor (aka major) freak out about mTESE.
> 
> Should we have gone with the TESE? It seems less invasive... Have we made a mistake??
> 
> At the same time as mTESE OH is having transurethral resection of ejaculatory ducts to unblock his tubes. Is this too much is one go? What if normal sperm production occurs after the unblocking and mTESE wasn't needed? If OH went through so much when it wasn't needed...
> 
> And, my biggest worry, what is any sperm they find doesn't survive the thaw? I asked the urologist if we should do a fresh cycle and he said no because there is no evidence of fresh sperm being more successful at fertilisation than frozen sperm but neglected to mention it probably won't survive the thaw!
> 
> I feel like I have been duped and that I have jumped in feet first without getting a second opinion first. We have had to go private because, due to our age, we are not eligable on the NHS; of course he is going to tell us to go ahead with all this, he stands to make a fortune from us!

I thought that mTese was less invasive from most of my readings on the subject. I can't post a link as I have less than 10 posts but here is a copy of some text from the US National Library of Medicine website:



> The total complication rate following mTESE was 10% in the early phase and *none in the long-term follow-up* compared to 24% of FNA side. It is concluded that mTESE is superior to FNA as regards sperm retrieval rate and lower incidence of complications in NOA patients.

I know it's a comparison to FNA and not TESE but I am clinging to the bold part! As far as I know, mTese has a much higher chance of finding sperm versus TESE, and removes a lot less testicular tissue. I'm sure I read somewhere that TESE can remove up to 30% of testicular tissue(!). Can you imagine going for an operation on your arm and having up to 30% of your arm removed?! TESE scares me a little bit to be honest. 

I was also concerned about testicular sperm not surviving the thaw, but our RE has assured that they have a very high survival rate. For now, we've just decided to go ahead with the mTese to find out if there is any sperm or not. If there is, then we can decide on whether the urologist will need to be on standby to perform a new mTese during IVF, or whether we will scrap IVF and move to DIUI. 

I feel your pain regarding the costs of this. We're also paying for all this out of pocket. It's very easy to be sceptical of our doctors' intentions when the advice they give you stands to line their pockets. You are their client so have no hesitation in asking whatever questions you wish, or getting a 2nd opinion either. It's your money and your health.


----------



## Jojo27

Chickensoup85 said:


> I assumed it was too but when I asked the urologist, he said that he wouldn't tell us the results that day because the samples of the biopsy needed to be sent off to have closer look under a more powerful microscope. I can't remember what he called it.

That's what we were told. Have to be taken back to the lab x


----------



## MrsG30

Chickensoup85 said:


> whats the difference? and can you have both done if need be? im totally confused
> 
> I always thought mTESE was less invasive, and in a way it seems to be because they take smaller amounts of tissue asthey able to be more precise. However, instead of going through the skin, the peel back the skin to expose the testies. I think this is correct, read some many conflicting things on google!
> 
> I think I am just worried for my husband and his recovery really because I feel like he is only doing this for me, as he is happy to use donor sperm.Click to expand...


whats the other procedure called? i just want to feel clued up when we go on thursday?
is one where they take a piece of skin and the other where they try to extract with a needle? sorry if im sound dumb :) :shrug: xxx


----------



## CanadianMaple

The other one is the TESA. That's what my DH is getting on Thursday before my egg retrieval. The TESA is more for a blockage, but my DH didn't want to spent the $4000 for a 40% chance and miss a few weeks of work; he had been through so many surgeries in the past. We have a donor backup since we only have a 20% chance of finding sperm.

I had my day 8 appointment for IVF today. There are so far 14 follicles and my lining is triple stripe and over 10. My circulation to my uterus is good again. I get to skip tomorrow's appt and them go in on Wednesday. That could be the day of the trigger shot. After waiting for over a year, this part of the process has been going so fast! Cross your fingers for us; I'm nervous for the TESA and the ER.


----------



## MrsG30

CanadianMaple said:


> The other one is the TESA. That's what my DH is getting on Thursday before my egg retrieval. The TESA is more for a blockage, but my DH didn't want to spent the $4000 for a 40% chance and miss a few weeks of work; he had been through so many surgeries in the past. We have a donor backup since we only have a 20% chance of finding sperm.
> 
> I had my day 8 appointment for IVF today. There are so far 14 follicles and my lining is triple stripe and over 10. My circulation to my uterus is good again. I get to skip tomorrow's appt and them go in on Wednesday. That could be the day of the trigger shot. After waiting for over a year, this part of the process has been going so fast! Cross your fingers for us; I'm nervous for the TESA and the ER.

CM- why do diff men have different procedures and can you have both? 

i bet your mega excited- keep us informed and i will nipping on and off for your updates. xx:hugs:


----------



## Chickensoup85

Good luck CanadianMaple! You must be so excited that things are finally happening (and nervous)! 

Thanks for the reply Jokerman, I feel so much better. I thought that's what I had originally read so that why we went for mTESE but then made the mistake of doing more research which threw up conflicting posts and confused me. 

MrsG30, I thought a PESA is the one where they used a needle... so if that's the TESA, the PESA might be the one which the urologist descibed as randomly firing a gun thing which grabs bits of tissue... 

There are so many acronyms! Still, least we have options haha.


----------



## MrsG30

Chickensoup85 said:


> Good luck CanadianMaple! You must be so excited that things are finally happening (and nervous)!
> 
> Thanks for the reply Jokerman, I feel so much better. I thought that's what I had originally read so that why we went for mTESE but then made the mistake of doing more research which threw up conflicting posts and confused me.
> 
> MrsG30, I thought a PESA is the one where they used a needle... so if that's the TESA, the PESA might be the one which the urologist descibed as randomly firing a gun thing which grabs bits of tissue...
> 
> There are so many acronyms! Still, least we have options haha.

ill ask on thursday when we go what the difference is and who gets what etc ha!
yes your right hun at least there us a few things to try.

the select friends we have told have all in turn said "can we help" "can we donate" i never thought in my lifetime my friends would be offering would be sperm :):haha:
if i didnt laugh i would cry :shrug:


----------



## CanadianMaple

TESA and PESA is about the same, it just depends on the area they search at. https://www.drkarenboyle.com/spermretrieval.html


----------



## CanadianMaple

MrsG30 said:


> CanadianMaple said:
> 
> 
> The other one is the TESA. That's what my DH is getting on Thursday before my egg retrieval. The TESA is more for a blockage, but my DH didn't want to spent the $4000 for a 40% chance and miss a few weeks of work; he had been through so many surgeries in the past. We have a donor backup since we only have a 20% chance of finding sperm.
> 
> I had my day 8 appointment for IVF today. There are so far 14 follicles and my lining is triple stripe and over 10. My circulation to my uterus is good again. I get to skip tomorrow's appt and them go in on Wednesday. That could be the day of the trigger shot. After waiting for over a year, this part of the process has been going so fast! Cross your fingers for us; I'm nervous for the TESA and the ER.
> 
> CM- why do diff men have different procedures and can you have both?
> 
> i bet your mega excited- keep us informed and i will nipping on and off for your updates. xx:hugs:Click to expand...


TESE is quite invasive. They actually open the testicles and look with a microscope and take out portions of tissue and examine it under a microscope.

TESA/PESA is where they use a fine needle into areas that are known to have sperm if there is a blockage. Someone who had a vas wouldn't need a TESE so they would recommend this less invasive procedure. In DH's case, they said that 50% of men with testicular failure still have patchy areas that produce sperm. We are hoping that since the urologist felt his epiditimis, there could be sperm in there that is blocked since it's usually flat if there is none in there. If they don't find any there, they will take random samples from the other epiditimis and then around the testicles.


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## Stinas

Canadian - Good luck!!!!


----------



## Verity Belle

MrsG30 said:


> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you :flower: sorry you are going through this too :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> are you in the uk? what the next step for you? we have our 1st specialist appointment on thursday :hugs:xxxClick to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes we love just outside London. My Hubby has to go have blood rest to check hormone levels I guess and then do another SA at the beginning of April. Then we go from there depending on our options. I have had blood tests and been poked and prodded since Oct when we first went to the Dr so now it's his turnClick to expand...
> 
> 
> we are in the north east- its will be good to keep up to date as its sounds like were at very similar stages, plus the NHS worries me- mainly waiting times! xxClick to expand...

I would love to know how you get on hun, I agree that we seen to be at similar stages in this so far. it's taken us from October to get where we are now so am trying to prepare myself that this is just the start of a long process. Have you had all your tests ?


----------



## Verity Belle

Dear Canadian wishing you lots of luck x


----------



## maybeBmommy

HELP.
I need some stories on how your husband handled the idea of using donor sperm....it hasn't been confirmed yet, but I'd bet my life my husband has klinefelters syndrome.


----------



## SunUp

Wow,so many new people! Sorry to 'see' you all on here, but its nice knowing how, in reality, we are not alone. It definitely makes you feel lonely, when you get the azoo diagnosis.

Just for some 'quick' clarification:

TESE is a surgical procedure where the doctor takes a piece of tissue and stitches the area up. The tissue is examined under a microscope, and often biopsied afterwards.

mTESE is more invasive of a procedure, where they open the testicle up more to look under a high powered microscope to try and find areas with sperm. They will often take a few tissue pieces at this time.

Both are invasive and usually require some form of sedation.

DEPENDING on where you have your procedure done, you will get your results back. At our clinic, we got the microscope results right away and the biopsy results later.


Deb- hope things are going well. :) AFM for the front page:
Pregnant with baby #1, Due in June.


----------



## SunUp

maybeBmommy said:


> HELP.
> I need some stories on how your husband handled the idea of using donor sperm....it hasn't been confirmed yet, but I'd bet my life my husband has klinefelters syndrome.

There is a whole thread dedicated to that diagnosis - if you get diagnosed with that, I would suggest checking it out.


----------



## MrsG30

Verity Belle said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verity Belle said:
> 
> 
> Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis on Thursday and are devastated. He has kind of shut down at the moment so I am trying to be the strong one but I keep having a little cry in secret. Glad I have some where others are going through this too but really sad that others are going through this :(
> Verity xx
> 
> :hugs:
> 
> weve just known over a week- its heartbreakin i know- dont give up hope xxClick to expand...
> 
> Thank you :flower: sorry you are going through this too :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> are you in the uk? what the next step for you? we have our 1st specialist appointment on thursday :hugs:xxxClick to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes we love just outside London. My Hubby has to go have blood rest to check hormone levels I guess and then do another SA at the beginning of April. Then we go from there depending on our options. I have had blood tests and been poked and prodded since Oct when we first went to the Dr so now it's his turnClick to expand...
> 
> 
> we are in the north east- its will be good to keep up to date as its sounds like were at very similar stages, plus the NHS worries me- mainly waiting times! xxClick to expand...
> 
> I would love to know how you get on hun, I agree that we seen to be at similar stages in this so far. it's taken us from October to get where we are now so am trying to prepare myself that this is just the start of a long process. Have you had all your tests ?Click to expand...


I had tests on 14th jan, scan and 8 weeks worth of bloods done but Hubby has only had 1 SA! we have out 1st special appointment this thursday!
do you know why your hubby has azoo? my hubby had adult mumps so im guessin that why. what are your treament plans? xxxx:hugs:


----------



## Verity Belle

We aren't really sure at the moment, we have to wait and see what the blood rest and SA says. my Hubby has had alot of operations and xrays in that kind of area so we suspect that everything has been nuked!
How are you?


----------



## AuCa

Wow, so many posts I've missed, and I was only gone for four days....
DH and I just came back from visiting family, so I wanted to check in and say hi to all the new people on the thread! :flower: Hope everybody is doing well.

Not much has happened for us, except that we got all the blood and genetic tests booked.


----------



## keziah23

I've fallen behind on the posts but my husband had TESE on the 8th of February and I'd be happy to talk to anyone about it if they have questions.


----------



## MrsG30

keziah23 said:


> I've fallen behind on the posts but my husband had TESE on the 8th of February and I'd be happy to talk to anyone about it if they have questions.

it was me hun- im confused on the diff procedures they do on our DH's. have my first appointment tomorrow so will find out more? was it ok for him? how he he? when do u get the results? x


----------



## keziah23

For TESE they make a small incision (usually using a local anesthesia unless you are having another procedure at the same time) somewhere in the scrotum. For my husband it was in the lowest point right where the two testicles meet. His incision is about a quarter of an inch (half centimeter maybe if I'm converting correctly). They then pull out a portion of the testicle and cut off (with micro surgical scissors) a small portion. For me, because of where we had this done a nurse then brought the material out to me in a container and I rushed it over to the lab. We got a call from the lab later that day because they needed some more info, and the embryologist said they had found some sperm. We got the report sent to us a week later but it makes no sense, we have a followup with the urologist on March 6th. The incision was glued shut, no exterior stitches. The glue started coming loose almost immediately though because of the nature of the skin in that location. We are keeping an eye on it for infection still and putting a bandage on it to keep it from getting rubbed by his underwear. He was not in a lot of pain, he only ever took Tylenol.


----------



## MrsG30

keziah23 said:


> For TESE they make a small incision (usually using a local anesthesia unless you are having another procedure at the same time) somewhere in the scrotum. For my husband it was in the lowest point right where the two testicles meet. His incision is about a quarter of an inch (half centimeter maybe if I'm converting correctly). They then pull out a portion of the testicle and cut off (with micro surgical scissors) a small portion. For me, because of where we had this done a nurse then brought the material out to me in a container and I rushed it over to the lab. We got a call from the lab later that day because they needed some more info, and the embryologist said they had found some sperm. We got the report sent to us a week later but it makes no sense, we have a followup with the urologist on March 6th. The incision was glued shut, no exterior stitches. The glue started coming loose almost immediately though because of the nature of the skin in that location. We are keeping an eye on it for infection still and putting a bandage on it to keep it from getting rubbed by his underwear. He was not in a lot of pain, he only ever took Tylenol.

ah thankyou so much for that. 
did you hubby have to have just this or did they try the procudure where they use the fine needle first? 
glad hes doing ok and fab news about he sperm :happydance:


----------



## keziah23

He had varicocele repair, biopsy and TESE all at the same time so his was done under general anesthesia


----------



## Jimmysrabbit

keziah23 said:


> For TESE they make a small incision (usually using a local anesthesia unless you are having another procedure at the same time) somewhere in the scrotum. For my husband it was in the lowest point right where the two testicles meet. His incision is about a quarter of an inch (half centimeter maybe if I'm converting correctly). They then pull out a portion of the testicle and cut off (with micro surgical scissors) a small portion. For me, because of where we had this done a nurse then brought the material out to me in a container and I rushed it over to the lab. We got a call from the lab later that day because they needed some more info, and the embryologist said they had found some sperm. We got the report sent to us a week later but it makes no sense, we have a followup with the urologist on March 6th. The incision was glued shut, no exterior stitches. The glue started coming loose almost immediately though because of the nature of the skin in that location. We are keeping an eye on it for infection still and putting a bandage on it to keep it from getting rubbed by his underwear. He was not in a lot of pain, he only ever took Tylenol.

Thanks for this information - it is very helpful. DH is on an NHS waiting list for the procedure. Great news on finding sperm and good luck with your follow up appointment.


----------



## tulip11

Second SA results came back same no sperm found.:(


----------



## AuCa

Sorry to hear the bad news Tulip :hugs::hugs::hugs:
I hope you can get a good specialist who can do further investigations and help you guys.


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## Jimmysrabbit

Oh Tulip - I'm so sorry :hugs: Did they give you options for going forward or just the results?


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## MrsG30

Jimmysrabbit said:


> keziah23 said:
> 
> 
> For TESE they make a small incision (usually using a local anesthesia unless you are having another procedure at the same time) somewhere in the scrotum. For my husband it was in the lowest point right where the two testicles meet. His incision is about a quarter of an inch (half centimeter maybe if I'm converting correctly). They then pull out a portion of the testicle and cut off (with micro surgical scissors) a small portion. For me, because of where we had this done a nurse then brought the material out to me in a container and I rushed it over to the lab. We got a call from the lab later that day because they needed some more info, and the embryologist said they had found some sperm. We got the report sent to us a week later but it makes no sense, we have a followup with the urologist on March 6th. The incision was glued shut, no exterior stitches. The glue started coming loose almost immediately though because of the nature of the skin in that location. We are keeping an eye on it for infection still and putting a bandage on it to keep it from getting rubbed by his underwear. He was not in a lot of pain, he only ever took Tylenol.
> 
> Thanks for this information - it is very helpful. DH is on an NHS waiting list for the procedure. Great news on finding sperm and good luck with your follow up appointment.Click to expand...


jimmysrabbit- whats the waiting list times? thanks xx


----------



## Jimmysrabbit

MrsG30 said:


> Jimmysrabbit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> keziah23 said:
> 
> 
> For TESE they make a small incision (usually using a local anesthesia unless you are having another procedure at the same time) somewhere in the scrotum. For my husband it was in the lowest point right where the two testicles meet. His incision is about a quarter of an inch (half centimeter maybe if I'm converting correctly). They then pull out a portion of the testicle and cut off (with micro surgical scissors) a small portion. For me, because of where we had this done a nurse then brought the material out to me in a container and I rushed it over to the lab. We got a call from the lab later that day because they needed some more info, and the embryologist said they had found some sperm. We got the report sent to us a week later but it makes no sense, we have a followup with the urologist on March 6th. The incision was glued shut, no exterior stitches. The glue started coming loose almost immediately though because of the nature of the skin in that location. We are keeping an eye on it for infection still and putting a bandage on it to keep it from getting rubbed by his underwear. He was not in a lot of pain, he only ever took Tylenol.
> 
> Thanks for this information - it is very helpful. DH is on an NHS waiting list for the procedure. Great news on finding sperm and good luck with your follow up appointment.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> jimmysrabbit- whats the waiting list times? thanks xxClick to expand...

Keziah (lovely name btw)...we are in South Wales - Specialist gave the waiting times for TESA as "2-3 months", but then in the same appointment changed it to "at least 3-4 months" - The NHS, clear as mud as usual. DH and I are self employed so we have told the hospital we are available at short notice, so we are hoping that may speed things along.


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## keziah23

Hopefully by the time you get yours done I'll know what the results mean and can help with that!


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## tulip11

Jimmysrabbit we have already been referred to FS so waiting for appointment letter and we ill get DH blood results on Friday but truly now I think I can never be mum :(


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## tulip11

Another question my progesterone level on day 22 was 27 n gp said it should be 30 or above it but what I read that for unmedicated cycle it should be 10+ while for medicated cycle it should be 15+ but I am not on medication so I think so 27 is ok if I am not wrong. My SIL progesterone level came as 1.1 for unmedicated cycle is it too low ?


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## keziah23

tulip- don't give up, there are lots of ways!


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## Jimmysrabbit

Hey Tulip - don't give up...modern medicine is amazing, there are plenty of examples on this thread of ladies who 30 years ago would have had no hope of biological children (they give me hope for sure). I can't help with your progesterone question, but I'm sure someone more knowledgable than me will be along with an answer for you.


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## Verity Belle

Dear tulip, don't give up hun, we will all get where we want to be we just have some hurdles to jump first xx chin up


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## CanadianMaple

No sperm found during the TESA this morning. :(. ER tomorrow with donor sperm. We cried and are ok. We had the donor picked out and at the lab since the fall.


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## AuCa

I am so sorry CanadianMaple :hug::hug:
Wishing you all the best for the ER tomorrow.


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## Jimmysrabbit

Oh CanadianMaple - I'm so sorry, I've been following your journey for a while (reading back through this thread) and was hoping on your behalf that the TESA would be a success...:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:
Glad that you are able to proceed straight away with the DS. Good luck for tomorrow :flower:


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## Chickensoup85

I'm sorry they didn't find anything CanadianMaple. Best of luck with the DS and the new road to getting your baby.


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## maybeBmommy

Sorry CanadianMaple....wishing the best with the ds, I'm sure it will be a success and you both will be blessed with a perfect child that was picked just for you two!

Lots of thoughts & prayers your way~


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## raelynn

So sorry CM. Even though you were prepared with a backup I'm sure it was still a terrible disappointment. Wishing you the best for DR and for successful fertilization.


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## Stinas

CM - I am soooo sorry nothing was found! Im sure it was still upsetting. At least you both know you tried everything possible and no matter what, this baby with be yours....regardless of genetics! 
Good luck with ER tom!


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## MrsG30

CM- i can only mirror everything the others have said hun:flower:
Hope all goes well today.

AFM: had an appointment with FS yesterday, I had all my vitals done, they told m to lose a bit of weight but i'm not a concern to them. Hubby has 4 lots of bloods done and goes back on 5th march for a details SA.
In the meantime we should receive a appointment for urology within 6-8 weeks.
Consultant was very nice but i ave to say she didnt seem too worried and said second SA is very important. I'm not letting that allow me to think the result will be different. She advised us there is no wait for IVF but the tests done by Urology are hugely in demand and the wait for any "op" for sperm retrieval is 6-9 month after we have been to urology :(
most shocking part was i we get to that stage and there i no sperm found at all there are no donors and the average wait for one is 24 months!!!! apparently since the law changed in 2005 no one i donating. 
Hubby asked about using a known "donor" and although she didn't brush it off completely she said its not a common thing to do???

overall we know the ball is rolling but i those timescales are right this is going to be a long miserable waiting game :(

any ideas/suggestions? xxx


----------



## tulip11

Hi everyone GP told us that they have already referred us to urologist and we ill receive appointment letter within four weeks. My question is that those who received their appointment letter so after how much time they had appointment means did you guys wait a lot? Plus today we ill get DH blood tests results so are these results show something or not ? And during our first appointment will they do scan or just they ill discuss all the upcoming things with us ?


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## tulip11

Hi just got an appointment letter our first appointment with urologist will be on 19th April .


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## jokerman

tulip11 said:


> Hi everyone GP told us that they have already referred us to urologist and we ill receive appointment letter within four weeks. My question is that those who received their appointment letter so after how much time they had appointment means did you guys wait a lot? Plus today we ill get DH blood tests results so are these results show something or not ? And during our first appointment will they do scan or just they ill discuss all the upcoming things with us ?

Can't answer all your questions sorry, but the bloodwork can definitely be an indicator as to whether the problem is obstructive or non-obstructive. A high FSH indicates that the brain recognizes there is a problem in producing sperm. My FSH was 12.2, normal is 1-9 apparently (although some places I have read that normal is up to 15). My testosterone was also a bit low at 295. Those two factors combined were enough for my urologist to put me on clomid.


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 - I was wondering how your appointment went. Glad to hear that it went relatively well. I know they do want the results from the 2nd SA before they confirm the diagnosis (I guess there is always a small chance that something went wrong with the first SA).
Sorry to hear about the wait times. I find that this is the most frustrating part of all of this :wacko: 6-9 mths does seem really long. I had no idea about the donor sperm situation. Maybe you guys should be looking into doing IVF in a different country? I was under the impression that it is quite common to use a "know donor". I don't think there should be an issue with that as long as everybody involved is ok with it.


----------



## jokerman

tulip11 said:


> Hi just got an appointment letter our first appointment with urologist will be on 19th April .

Well, it's good you have your appointment sorted. That's quite a wait though. This entire process seems to be one wait after another. Waiting for results, waiting for appointments...


----------



## AuCa

jokerman said:


> My FSH was 12.2, normal is 1-9 apparently (although some places I have read that normal is up to 15). My testosterone was also a bit low at 295. Those two factors combined were enough for my urologist to put me on clomid.

Interesting. Here they say anything between 1-18 is normal for FSH (DH had 10). And DH also had not too high testosterone. But our specialist said that his levels are normal. I guess we'll see what they say at the next consult, as they asked DH to re-run all the blood tests and do some more (LH, prolactin etc).


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## tulip11

just called regarding results of blood tests so receptionist said that everything is normal but she said that ALT is high...now I dont know so much about this thing except that it shows liver function test...we ill be having next appointment next week in order to discuss these tests...GL to all of you...


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## tulip11

does normal LH and FSH tests indicate something ? as what I have read that it doesnt indicate anything even though some men with testicular failure also shows normal FSH n LH levels ...kindly please shed some light on high ALT relation with azoospermia ? thanks


----------



## AuCa

Tulip - I'm not an expert, but I don't think that ALT levels have anything to do with infertility/azoospermia. They just indicate that there might be an issue with the liver (eg liver disease, hepatitis). Hopefully your doc can clarify that.

As for FSH, LH etc - you are right, it can be normal in men with testicular failure or obstructive azoospermia. They just test it because if the levels are low/high it can indicate a specific problem. But when they are normal it doesn't mean there is no problem. It pretty much just means that you still don't know what is going on. So you need to go on doing other tests (genetic, checking for blockage, biopsy, etc).


----------



## jokerman

AuCa said:


> jokerman said:
> 
> 
> My FSH was 12.2, normal is 1-9 apparently (although some places I have read that normal is up to 15). My testosterone was also a bit low at 295. Those two factors combined were enough for my urologist to put me on clomid.
> 
> Interesting. Here they say anything between 1-18 is normal for FSH (DH had 10). And DH also had not too high testosterone. But our specialist said that his levels are normal. I guess we'll see what they say at the next consult, as they asked DH to re-run all the blood tests and do some more (LH, prolactin etc).Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess it's very subjective, and different labs use different reference ranges for results. When I got my results, the first 3 doctors all told me that my testosterone was normal, because the reference range provided by the lab was 195 - 800. Finally, the urologist who will be performing the mTese told me that even 295 was low, and the lab's reference range might just mean they are testing a lot of very old and weak men!


----------



## AuCa

jokerman said:


> Yeah, I guess it's very subjective, and different labs use different reference ranges for results. When I got my results, the first 3 doctors all told me that my testosterone was normal, because the reference range provided by the lab was 195 - 800. Finally, the urologist who will be performing the mTese told me that even 295 was low, and the lab's reference range might just mean they are testing a lot of very old and weak men!

Thanks for this, it definitely makes sense. DH's was slightly lower at about 354, but I think this is still definitely on the lower end. I will ask the specialist about this when we have our next consultation.


----------



## MoBaby

Jokerman: your results are similar to my DH's...fsh 13 and test 230. we are considering a second opinion since his urologist basically told him there is nothing they can do (except the biopsy which due to his 2 previous testicular surgeries we are holding off)...we want to try clomid/hcg/whatever else we can before anything. we get some sperm for ivf/icsi but if we can get more for iui or more to freeze for later on then that would be great.


----------



## BettiS

CanadianMaple said:


> No sperm found during the TESA this morning. :(. ER tomorrow with donor sperm. We cried and are ok. We had the donor picked out and at the lab since the fall.

Hi CM

I am SOOO sorry. You must have been so devastated! I wish you all the best with your current endeavour and I REALLY hope things work out the way you want them to and that you will become a mommy again in 9 months!

Not finding sperm is probably our worst fear at the moment...because at the moment we aren't even considering DS and if we don't find sperm (in theory) we will simply accept our fate and get on with our lives. But that's the feeling at THIS stage...who knows how we will feel if it becomes reality. The FS told me in private that he didn't think that there would be any chance of finding sperm since DH's testes are both so small, but that, even if only for closure, it would be worth a try.

We are still saving for TESE...it's equal to one month's salary for me... :cry: Bloody ridiculous.


----------



## BrandyRelax

I'm not sure if anyone saw this, but it's my ultimate fear.

https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/assisted-conception/1089663-donor-sperm-iui-ivf-2012-a-24.html#post25683155

For those of you whose hubby had a mTESE, how did you get over the fear that something really bad might happen out of the surgery?

My hubby's surgery is March 5th, so I think this timing is just really freaking me out!


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## keziah23

Brandy- I don't know if you "get over it" as much as just say "here is what we need to do" and go ahead and do it.


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## tulip11

My question is that if tests of hormones comes out to be normal so does this indicate any hope ?


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## AuCa

BrandyRelax said:


> I'm not sure if anyone saw this, but it's my ultimate fear.
> 
> https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/assisted-conception/1089663-donor-sperm-iui-ivf-2012-a-24.html#post25683155
> 
> For those of you whose hubby had a mTESE, how did you get over the fear that something really bad might happen out of the surgery?
> 
> My hubby's surgery is March 5th, so I think this timing is just really freaking me out!

That's horrible.
I agree with Keziah though - the issue is that there is risks with every medical procedure (or even taking medication), and we just have to accept that and hope for the best.


----------



## AuCa

tulip11 said:


> My question is that if tests of hormones comes out to be normal so does this indicate any hope ?

I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but no, it doesn't really. The majority of men with azoospermia have normal hormone levels. It could mean that there is an obstruction, which can be ruled out by ultrasound and can maybe get fixed.


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## keziah23

My hubby's hormone levels were all normal except testosterone which is high (odd) so while abnormal levels can help doctors determine what is the cause of azoospermia, normal levels don't tell much of anything.


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## Deb111

Sending hugs and prayers from the azoo support thread to the lovely CanadianMaple after her tragic loss. Our thoughts are with you Becky x x


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## Jojo27

Hi all, well we had our follow up yesterday....
It didn't go well, sperm was found but abnormal and not good enough for freezing, so that's the end for us unless we wish to use donor sperm or adopt. I thought I was prepared for bad news but its only when it hit me I realised that I wasn't. DH is fine about it, what will be will be. I honestly don't know where to go from here? All along I was saying no to a donor, but now I just don't know.


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## Deb111

tulip11 said:


> My question is that if tests of hormones comes out to be normal so does this indicate any hope ?

It can be a positive sign because if the body has recognised a problem it will try and fix it by boosting various hormones. It may therefore indicate that sperm production is normal but there is a blockage. However it is possible for abnormal blood tests and sperm to be found or normal blood tests and no sperm


----------



## AuCa

Jojo27 said:


> Hi all, well we had our follow up yesterday....
> It didn't go well, sperm was found but abnormal and not good enough for freezing, so that's the end for us unless we wish to use donor sperm or adopt. I thought I was prepared for bad news but its only when it hit me I realised that I wasn't. DH is fine about it, what will be will be. I honestly don't know where to go from here? All along I was saying no to a donor, but now I just don't know.

Very sorry :hugs::hugs:
I'm like you - not wanting to use a donor, but I also realize that I might change my opinion if it won't be possible with DH's sperm. It's a tough call. It sounds like your husband is ok with either option though, so I would think that helps. Wish you two all the best with your decisions!


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## SunUp

Hey JoJo! Its not an easy decision, you have to figure whats right for you two. But there is a very helpful board specifically for donor, if you have questions.


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## Jimmysrabbit

I'd like to add my sincere condolences to CanadianMaple - I saw on another thread about your awful news. My heart goes out to you and your family.


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## Soili

Deb111 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> My question is that if tests of hormones comes out to be normal so does this indicate any hope ?
> 
> It can be a positive sign because if the body has recognised a problem it will try and fix it by boosting various hormones. It may therefore indicate that sperm production is normal but there is a blockage. However it is possible for abnormal blood tests and sperm to be found or normal blood tests and no spermClick to expand...

I might be wrong, but I think out of normal hormone tests would indicate NON-obstructive cause. I don't think one's body can recognize that there's a blockage (unless it's life-supporting system, of course). But it can recognize that some part of hormonal production is lacking and try to fix that by boosting other correspondent hormones?

Like, for example, if there's a blockage in Fallopian tubes, it won't show on any of the blood tests. But if there's an issue with egg production (ovulation) or egg quality, hormone levels would be out of normal range. Female and male reproductive systems are quite similar, to certain extend, of course.


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## Jimmysrabbit

JoJo - I am so sorry your results were not good. Give yourself some time to consider your options :hugs:


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## Verity Belle

Saw the news about CM, so unbelievably sad, thought and prayer sent.

Jojo27 sorry tor results weren't what you hoped for, take a breath, consider your choices and give yourselves time to absorb the news. My hubby and I are probably going to head down the donor route, mostly his choice tbh at this stage. chin up x


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## Deb111

Soili said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> My question is that if tests of hormones comes out to be normal so does this indicate any hope ?
> 
> It can be a positive sign because if the body has recognised a problem it will try and fix it by boosting various hormones. It may therefore indicate that sperm production is normal but there is a blockage. However it is possible for abnormal blood tests and sperm to be found or normal blood tests and no spermClick to expand...
> 
> I might be wrong, but I think out of normal hormone tests would indicate NON-obstructive cause. I don't think one's body can recognize that there's a blockage (unless it's life-supporting system, of course). But it can recognize that some part of hormonal production is lacking and try to fix that by boosting other correspondent hormones?
> 
> Like, for example, if there's a blockage in Fallopian tubes, it won't show on any of the blood tests. But if there's an issue with egg production (ovulation) or egg quality, hormone levels would be out of normal range. Female and male reproductive systems are quite similar, to certain extend, of course.Click to expand...

I may not have worded what i said very well so will try again :dohh:

If there is a problem with sperm production ie. non obs azoo, the body recognises the problem and tries to boost certain hormones to rectify it.

In cases of obs azoo where production is normal, there is no production problem for the body to try and rectify hence blood test results are usually fairly normal.

As i said before, this is only part of the picture


----------



## Soili

Deb, we were basically agreeing with each other then :D


----------



## Hpe_1

Hello ladies,
Two days ago we found out my husband has azoospermia. We are waiting on the blood work. We are in so much shock right now. Hubby is in a state of total shock, he hated doing the SA to begin with b/c well it stressed him out and having to perform it twice he is not one to umm perform on his own if you get what I mean and when my obgyn asked for samples I thought he was going to have an anxiety attack. I wish that guys would show emotion or talk like us girls can. Ugh how did your husbands get through this news? Ugh so many emotions and questions right now. Wishing blood work would come back so we know more.


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## AuCa

Very sorry to hear about your diagnosis Hpe_1 :hugs::hugs::hugs:
Would it be an option for you to go with him when he goes in for his SA (I'm fairly certain he'll have to go again down the road)? Here they allow partners to come and "help" :blush:

We haven't got our diagnosis that long ago, so DH is definitely not "over it" yet (and let's be honest - probably never really will be). But it definitely got better. He was really bad for about a month. Still doesn't want to talk about it though, but if that's how he wants to deal with it I'll just accept it.
I think it's just very important to support him, since it's mostly a huge blow to their ego, to their manhood. I'm not completely sure, but I think my husband started feeling better when he realized that the diagnosis didn't change anything for me, that I still saw him as the same man.

Do you have a referral for a specialist yet? Your husband will likely need an array of more tests.


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## Hpe_1

O i was with him for both SA since we could do it at home but it did not help he was still freaked out by the whole thing :( My obgyn Dr ordered the SA, first one came back abnormal so she ordered a second same results. First results had 40,000 per ml second 0. Both had low mobility ect. My doc last month referred us to the RE and he gave us the results and did the blood work/genetic testing. :(


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## BettiS

I'm so sorry about your loss CM, can't even begin to imagine how you must feel right now...

EOE - I have taken up photography since DH gave me a nice camera for my birthday. Thought I'd share a collage from a shoot I did on my cousin's 3-month-old baby girl.
 



Attached Files:







Kara Collage.jpg
File size: 73.1 KB
Views: 5


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## rdleela

Hi, everyone, wow, so many new members on this thread!

It's been a long time since I've posted, but need to update and give anyone dealing with obstructive azoospermia some hope!

Recap: DH had a hernia repair and undescendent testicle surgery at a very early age (newborn hernia and about 2 or 3 yrs old for the other one). Due to these surgeries, his left testicle never formed, and his right testicle only partially formed. He had a TON of scarring down there, and thus, had zero sperm in ejaculate.

September 28th, 2012, DH had a surgery to by-pass the blockage. The surgeon at that time found all the scarring and we learned about his poor testicles. The surgeon said the surgery was VERY difficult, and that it was a 50/50 shot on whether the surgery would be successful. He did find live sperm at surgery time.

Early December 2012, 2 months post-op, SA results = zero sperm.

Yesterday, we had an appointment with our fertility clinic to say "let's do IVF". The Dr. informed us that we would have to travel to Toronto (we live in Alberta) to do IVF, as no one in Alberta does the surgery my DH needs to extract sperm (I think it's a tough surgery for DH as he's already had two surgeries in 2012 down there). So that was kind of a blow, the added travel costs. But you do what you have to, right? Anyways, the Dr. said, "we should do another SA b/c it's been 3 months since your last one, and even if we find only 10 sperm, we'll freeze them, and elimate the TESE so that you guys can do IVF here locally!" We totally agreed, so hubby did an SA this morning at the fertility clinic, AND OMG he had 600,000 sperm show up!!! 30% motility! We COULD NOT believe it!

We are EXACTLY 5 months post-op, and we are hoping that over the next few months, with some follow-up SA's, that we see some progression! (The surgeon emailed me back after I told him our good news, and said it is possible to see progression on count and motility up to a year post-op.)

At the very least, IVF costs will be lower, but MAYBE we could do IUI's if we get the sperm count up!

So ladies, there is TOTALLY hope if you are dealing with obstructive azoospermia!!!! We had the most difficult surgery with the most difficult outcome, and we now have sperm in ejaculate!!!!

Please, please PM me if you have any questions!


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## Deb111

AMAZING NEWS rdleela x


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## AuCa

Thanks for this encouraging post dleela!! I just PMed you with a question....


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Thanks for this encouraging post dleela!! I just PMed you with a question....

hi hun
how are your tests coming on?
we are "blocking it out" "not talking about it" "ignoring the fact its happening" at the minute!!!
we go for D 2nd SA on tuesday and waiting patently for a urological app.
feel useless :cry:


----------



## AuCa

Hi MrsG,

sorry to hear that you guys are not doing so well right now :hug:
My husband also never brings up the topic, but I do from time to time (I honestly just can't help it), and when I do he's usually fine talking about it. At some time point he'll have to face things since there will be decisions to be made.

Our 2nd SA is a week after yours (1 month wait time when we booked it!!), and I know DH wants to do a home test before that (I put him on supplements at the end of last year, and he wants to see if anything changed). So I'm a bit worried that he'll be down again if he realizes that nothing changed.
We've done all the blood tests (incl genetics), but waiting for results. Our next consult is at the end of March, so still have quite a bit of waiting to do :wacko:


----------



## tulip11

hi girls how are you doing ? We got our app letter and DH app with Urologist would be on 19th april..just want to know that those who went through this does it take long time after 1st appointment ?


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Hi MrsG,
> 
> sorry to hear that you guys are not doing so well right now :hug:
> My husband also never brings up the topic, but I do from time to time (I honestly just can't help it), and when I do he's usually fine talking about it. At some time point he'll have to face things since there will be decisions to be made.
> 
> Our 2nd SA is a week after yours (1 month wait time when we booked it!!), and I know DH wants to do a home test before that (I put him on supplements at the end of last year, and he wants to see if anything changed). So I'm a bit worried that he'll be down again if he realizes that nothing changed.
> We've done all the blood tests (incl genetics), but waiting for results. Our next consult is at the end of March, so still have quite a bit of waiting to do :wacko:

My hubby wont talk unless i bring it up either.
our FS kinda gave my hubby hope that his 2nd test ay be better- thats really annoyed me- dont want him to think were going to get super sperm- if you know what i mean.:shrug:

were waiting on blood results too and waiting on urolgy app- im going to chase it up when we go on tuesday for SA.

wish the process was a bit quicker :hugs:


----------



## Verity Belle

My hubby is like that, won't talk about it, but I need to sometimes just to process what is going on and deal with it all, he doesn't want anyone to know so he is the only one I can talk to about it and we had a big bust up the other day so that was fun! :cry:
Wish the process was quicker too.
Hope everyone is ok xx:flower:


----------



## AuCa

I hear you ladies......:hugs::hugs:
I'm like you Verity Belle (and I think many women are like this) - if I can't talk about my problems I have a really hard time and I get quite depressed. I actually e-mailed a friend of mine two days ago and told her a bit about our struggles (she lives across the ocean and thus I thought it was safe to tell her), and I felt SOOOO much better after that. It's great to have the online support, but it's still different to talk about it with family/friends.


----------



## MrsG30

Total meltdown from me tonight- hubby just bursting out "do you really think were ever going to have any kids" 
How do I answer that? Surely "yes" is the most natural thing in the worls but for me i had no words.
I;m really struggling, and not even with the "treatments and knowing nothing is going to be conventional" just with the not knowing and ow long things take.
I feel like im losing the plot :wacko:


----------



## Verity Belle

:hugs:Hugs to everyone xx:hugs: :hugs:


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> Total meltdown from me tonight- hubby just bursting out "do you really think were ever going to have any kids"
> How do I answer that? Surely "yes" is the most natural thing in the worls but for me i had no words.
> I;m really struggling, and not even with the "treatments and knowing nothing is going to be conventional" just with the not knowing and ow long things take.
> I feel like im losing the plot :wacko:

Sorry hun :hugs::hugs::hugs:
I also feel that the uncertainty is the worst of all. I ended up booking an appointment with my GP to see if she can access my blood tests (Day 3 hormone levels etc), since I'm just going crazy waiting for the appt at the fertility clinic (still 3 weeks to go :wacko:).
Since we got our diagnosis my own body has been also going haywire, which started worrying me. Used to have somewhat regular cycles, but now last cycle was 50 days long, then had mid-cycle spotting (which i NEVER have), and looks like this cycle is going to be super long too :wacko:

I just always say - we'll do whatever we can to have one, and if it doesn't work we at least know that we've done anything possible. In that case we might move on to adoption. In the end I just would like to have a family of some sort....


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Total meltdown from me tonight- hubby just bursting out "do you really think were ever going to have any kids"
> How do I answer that? Surely "yes" is the most natural thing in the worls but for me i had no words.
> I;m really struggling, and not even with the "treatments and knowing nothing is going to be conventional" just with the not knowing and ow long things take.
> I feel like im losing the plot :wacko:
> 
> Sorry hun :hugs::hugs::hugs:
> I also feel that the uncertainty is the worst of all. I ended up booking an appointment with my GP to see if she can access my blood tests (Day 3 hormone levels etc), since I'm just going crazy waiting for the appt at the fertility clinic (still 3 weeks to go :wacko:).
> Since we got our diagnosis my own body has been also going haywire, which started worrying me. Used to have somewhat regular cycles, but now last cycle was 50 days long, then had mid-cycle spotting (which i NEVER have), and looks like this cycle is going to be super long too :wacko:
> 
> I just always say - we'll do whatever we can to have one, and if it doesn't work we at least know that we've done anything possible. In that case we might move on to adoption. In the end I just would like to have a family of some sort....Click to expand...

I know love- when i read your replies i feel like i have wrote it- we are exactly on the same page. Even what you said about your periods, mine seem to be doing what they like? i think its all the worry and stress.

We go for the 2nd SA tomorrow so hoping we get to ask a few more questions and find out the results off his blood work as its nearly 2 weeks since he had the xx:hugs:


----------



## AuCa

Wishing you all the best for your SA and appointment tomorrow MrsG30! :hugs:


----------



## maybeBmommy

Time just ticks so much slower in this position.
I used to be excited about our next step (meeting with the fertility clinic for a consult on the 15th) but now I'm feeling like its pointless.

I mean, how are we even gonig to pay for treatments? My husband is in such denial that I truely think that he still thinks we are going to be able to do this naturally.

Why can't they just have appointments be closer together? Ugh. Struggling bad today.


----------



## MrsG30

maybeBmommy said:


> Time just ticks so much slower in this position.
> I used to be excited about our next step (meeting with the fertility clinic for a consult on the 15th) but now I'm feeling like its pointless.
> 
> I mean, how are we even gonig to pay for treatments? My husband is in such denial that I truely think that he still thinks we are going to be able to do this naturally.
> 
> Why can't they just have appointments be closer together? Ugh. Struggling bad today.


:hugs: hunny.
i had a day like that yesterday but i ust keep telling yself we will get there and so will you.
do as they say, keep on at the FS- hopefully speed things along- come your chin up xxx


----------



## AuCa

maybeBmommy - I'm sorry that your husband seems to be in denial. It's not really helpful for the situation, but maybe he needs it right now to cope with everything and it will just be a phase.
To be honest, the only good thing about the whole wait in my opinion is that it gives us time to save up some money...

MrsG30 - let us know how your SA/appt went today :hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Hi everyone. Does anybody know how much time does this whole treatment till the last stage take place in uk I mean approximately the rough estimate ? Like our first appointment with urologist ill be on april 19th so idk whether in first appointment we ill come to know something or not ? Or does the accompanying appointments takes long time as well ?


----------



## AuCa

tulip11 said:


> Hi everyone. Does anybody know how much time does this whole treatment till the last stage take place in uk I mean approximately the rough estimate ? Like our first appointment with urologist ill be on april 19th so idk whether in first appointment we ill come to know something or not ? Or does the accompanying appointments takes long time as well ?

I don't live in the UK and haven't gone through it all yet, but I don't think there is a definitive answer to this Tulip11. What do you mean with "the last stage" - having IVF?
It will totally depend on 1) what the exact diagnosis is (eg obstructive vs non-obstructive, genetic or not, will they recover sperm from TESE or not etc), 2) what your financial situation is, 3) what the wait time for your clinic/specialist is, and so on.


----------



## tulip11

I meant by last stage ( means he final solution in form of ivf or something else ) yes you are right but you know since we knew this now I just want to know what would be the final solution if there would be any hope I cant wait anymore .


----------



## Jojo27

Hi tulip, where in the uk are you based?
Has your DH had all tests? X


----------



## tulip11

Jojo27 said:


> Hi tulip, where in the uk are you based?
> Has your DH had all tests? X

Hi I am from bradford.
Yes 2 SA n blood tests his all blood tests came back normal.


----------



## Deb111

Tulip - are you going nhs? We ended up going privately, but to give you an idea - we had our first nhs appt in feb one year having had NO tests done prior to this - not even blood tests. Hubby had surgical sperm retrieval in the oct of same year. They could have done it 2 months sooner but we wanted 3 months if vitamins etc so delayed it. There was no wait fir ivf if we had used our nhs cycle but clinics differ greatly in their waiting lists. Hope that helps x x


----------



## MrsG30

Hi Girls

2nd FS done- only had to do SA in the clinic and now on a wait for bloodwork results and 2nd Sa results.
We asked the receptionist how long the wait and she said "if we had the results you would know about it" Then i asked about how we would be get the results fro today- and she replied "at your next appointent" i replied "and when is that" and she simply said "when we make it for you"
We left in a right fettle.
Im going to ring on Friday and hopefully get someone ore friendly.


More waiting :(

Hope all your ladies are doing ok xxx


----------



## tulip11

Deb111 yes NHS.


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## Jimmysrabbit

tulip11 said:


> Hi everyone. Does anybody know how much time does this whole treatment till the last stage take place in uk I mean approximately the rough estimate ? Like our first appointment with urologist ill be on april 19th so idk whether in first appointment we ill come to know something or not ? Or does the accompanying appointments takes long time as well ?

We are in South Wales - treatment times are very long here. SA were done in Feb last year, referred to IVF Wales for consultation in May...long wait for appointment which we finally had in January this year. Blood tests taken and appointment made for Urologist which we had a month after 1st consult. Blood work showed DH is a CF carrier (all other levels fine). Examination on same day shows missing Vas Def. Referred for surgical sperm retrieval - we have been advised there is a 3-4 month wait for this...we will then go private as the wait for IVF in wales is 2 YEARS!!!!


----------



## MrsG30

Deb111 said:


> Tulip - are you going nhs? We ended up going privately, but to give you an idea - we had our first nhs appt in feb one year having had NO tests done prior to this - not even blood tests. Hubby had surgical sperm retrieval in the oct of same year. They could have done it 2 months sooner but we wanted 3 months if vitamins etc so delayed it. There was no wait fir ivf if we had used our nhs cycle but clinics differ greatly in their waiting lists. Hope that helps x x

Debs-
Can i ask? why did you not go with NHS if no wait? hope thats not cheeky xx


----------



## MrsG30

Jimmysrabbit said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone. Does anybody know how much time does this whole treatment till the last stage take place in uk I mean approximately the rough estimate ? Like our first appointment with urologist ill be on april 19th so idk whether in first appointment we ill come to know something or not ? Or does the accompanying appointments takes long time as well ?
> 
> We are in South Wales - treatment times are very long here. SA were done in Feb last year, referred to IVF Wales for consultation in May...long wait for appointment which we finally had in January this year. Blood tests taken and appointment made for Urologist which we had a month after 1st consult. Blood work showed DH is a CF carrier (all other levels fine). Examination on same day shows missing Vas Def. Referred for surgical sperm retrieval - we have been advised there is a 3-4 month wait for this...we will then go private as the wait for IVF in wales is 2 YEARS!!!!Click to expand...

Thanks for that- that helped me too.

I had my bloods and scans done in Jan. DH had Sa in Jan, then 2nd SA and bloodwork early March. we have been told the referral to the Urologist should be about 4-6 weeks but any op from that appointment could be 6-9 months!!!!! Tere is however no wait for IVF/ICSI here so I guess thats a good thing.

What i am going to ask is if I can get the process started for our donor? as were using a known donor (obviously this is back-up) but i dont want the donor process to be started after the urologist has dont his bit as thats just another wait, i just worried as we dont defiantly know if need a donor that they wont let us start the process yet.
Hope that makes sense and im not rambling xxx


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## Deb111

MrsG - that receptionist needs a slap!!

Of course i dont mind you asking about our decision on the nhs. Basically when hubby had the ssr on the nhs they found just 3 sperm and even though they were motile and healthy they said it was too few to freeze. They said our only options were donor or adopt. Our clinic wouldnt persue any further.

When we saw private urologist he said we had 2 choices if we still wanted to go nhs. He could do the mTESE on the nhs but the clinic we would use only did ER on wed and sat's so not ideal when your eggs dont want to be ready on a wed or sat! The other option was a different clinic where they used their own surgeons and the mTESE would be done by a gynae?! WTF???

We needed to know we had tried everything we could and we felt in expert hands with our private urologist


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## keziah23

Today was the one month followup from DH's TESE and biopsy. 
Biopsy showed sperm are completely normal! Dr. said she didn't believe it when she got the lab report so she got the slides and looked herself! This could mean that there is a blockage. Its good news,it means that he is producing sperm, and that the sperm we have frozen from the TESE are good! So she recommended "have sex as much as possible and we'll see what happens in 3 months". LOL. Hubby loved that advice! If we are not pregnant by then she will do an ultrasound to see if she can find a blockage.


----------



## AuCa

Those are great news Keziah! :thumbup::happydance:

I'm kind of confused why she wouldn't do an ultrasound right away? Has nobody ever checked to see if your DH has a blockage? The sequence just seems kind of odd to me. We need to do an ultrasound to check for blockage before doing anything else....


----------



## keziah23

They did a scrotal ultrasound at our first visit, this would be a "transrectal" ultrasound. Not sure why the wait. They scheduled the appt for 3 months from today, and I think its supposed to be 3 months from surgery so I am going to reschedule.


----------



## AuCa

Thanks! That makes sense now. Our specialist told DH that he should have both, but (understandably) he's not so eager to get the transrectal one (I guess that one is to check if there is a prostate issue). We haven't scheduled those yet....


----------



## Stinas

keziah23 - Great news!


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## Jimmysrabbit

Great New Keziah - woo hoo!!!


----------



## Faali

Hi, hope you don't mind me joining the group, my Hubby and I got the azoospermia diagnosis last month.
His all tests came back normal and the ultrasound showed no obstruction.
I would like to know of any success stories of NOA with normal hormones?!
I just want to thank you all for sharing so much information here. All the best to everyone:thumbup:
xx


----------



## BrandyRelax

Hi All - just wanted to pop in to share the results of DH's mTESE on Tuesday.

We're getting some conflicting answers, but here's the jist of it.

On Tuesday, the Surgeon found tails sticking out of the tissue (so he couldn't see the heads to see if they were good). He said he found about 10 of them. 

The results from the lab went to the fertility specialist doctor saying there were 3 sperm frozen (no indication of abnormalities, but they weren't moving, so he can't say if they're alive or not). The results went to the surgeon and said that they found sperm but they are abnormal - but I don't know what that means. 

The current plan is to do another mTESE in July, with a fresh IVF cycle, and if they don't find better sperm, they can use the frozen stuff.

The FS feels we should still make a decision on donor back-up regardless. Given they ony have 3 sperm, I'm likely to have many more eggs, he just wants to make sure we know upfront whether we'll do IVF with DS or not, if there are extra eggs.

I'm an a-type personality, so I'm trying to figure out the donor sperm decision, but am having trouble figuring out where I sit on it... mostly because there aren't clear criteria for when it's right, and when it's not. My biggest struggle is if we used DS, I wouldn't want to tell the child, because it might create issues with him/her feeling close to my hubby, or being attached to the family.

Any suggestions of things I can check out, or things I can read to help with the decision?


----------



## keziah23

Brandy- 3 individual sperm or 3 vials? Did the lab do a freeze/thaw test to see if they would survive? Was a biopsy also done? Sorry I don't have any advice on the donor, we have not had to go there yet. Good luck!

Faali- Welcome, sorry you have to be here. My husband's hormones are normal, he had a biopsy and TESE and they found sperm and biopsy showed normal sperm. We are in "wait and see" pattern for 2 more months.


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## BrandyRelax

They found 3 individual sperm, not vials (that would have been awesome). They did a biopsy, and did freeze the remaining tissue, so they can keep going through it. They didn't do a freeze/thaw test, perhaps because there were so few.

And the surgeon is going to see about some less proven meds he can put DH on. Given there is sperm there, although, quality is questionable, at least it's not maturation arrest, so they have to figure out how to improve the quality. We'll find out his suggestions on April 12th when we are there for the follow-up.


----------



## Deb111

Faali - welcome. You will get great support here.

Brandy - 3 is still 3 more than none :thumbup: we got 3 with nhs random biopsy. 2 normal and motile and one not moving like you if i remember our results correctly.

What are testoterone levels like?
Has dr mentioned what meds?
Would they use some of your eggs with dh's sperm and others with donor so you could at least use dhs small number without wasting eggs? I know they wont mix the 2 but may do separately?
Did they just do mtese on one side? What about next mtese - just left as they know they found some?

Google 'omega 3 and male fertility'. My hubby was on that prior to the mtese aswell as tamoxifen. It cant hurt x


----------



## Deb111

Duplicate


----------



## MrsG30

Girls/Boys
Can i ask? Weve come home to a letter for the urologist on 9th May, in the letter is states any SSR could take 6-9 month after the initial consultation?
in this time would they get me ready for IVF With a donor back up incase th SSr was a no go? or will there be mutliply things they will try before they get me ready?
My letter implies there expecting to find sperm and fresh sperm would need to be used therefore my bmi would need to be 30

Im confused at what is next.....:dohh:


----------



## Deb111

I would say it depends on your clinic. Our nhs one wouldnt get me ready for ER at the same time as ssr because we didnt want a donor back up. When is your appt?


----------



## rdleela

AuCa said:


> Thanks! That makes sense now. Our specialist told DH that he should have both, but (understandably) he's not so eager to get the transrectal one (I guess that one is to check if there is a prostate issue). We haven't scheduled those yet....

Hey, ladies, yes, your DH's need both ultrasounds, scrotal and transrectal. The transrectal looks towards the prostate area. They need both in order to tell WHERE the blockage is - where it is will determine WHICH surgery your DH needs! Try to get both done ASAP - the transrectal in Alberta can only be done at a hospital with a Dr, so get your family doctor to order it ASAP, we had to wait almost 2 months for ours and it held up booking our surgery!


----------



## AuCa

Thanks for that info rdleela!
There's just always something that needs to be done which involves wait time, and nobody wants to order it, ugh. Out of some reason the first specialist (who ordered all the other tests) didn't want to order the ultrasounds yet (wanted to wait for results of genetic tests). And then of course DH doesn't have a family doc (yet), although I've been nagging him about it since a year.
I'll get on his case again today, hopefully he can get it booked asap (if not I might just ask our specialist if he would maybe change his mind...)


----------



## BrandyRelax

Deb111 said:


> Faali - welcome. You will get great support here.
> 
> Brandy - 3 is still 3 more than none :thumbup: we got 3 with nhs random biopsy. 2 normal and motile and one not moving like you if i remember our results correctly.
> 
> What are testoterone levels like?
> Has dr mentioned what meds?
> Would they use some of your eggs with dh's sperm and others with donor so you could at least use dhs small number without wasting eggs? I know they wont mix the 2 but may do separately?
> Did they just do mtese on one side? What about next mtese - just left as they know they found some?
> 
> Google 'omega 3 and male fertility'. My hubby was on that prior to the mtese aswell as tamoxifen. It cant hurt x

Deb - thanks for the reply, it really gives me hope. Were they able to do anything with the one that was not moving or did they just create 2 embryos with the moving ones?

His testosterone levels are in the normal range, definitely near the lower end, but clearly in the normla range.

The doctor didn't mention anything about meds because of his hormone levels so he just stayed on multi vitamin and folic acid, which is what the Urologist suggested now. He was on Omega 3's earlier, but it didn't change anything with the SA's, so he stopped taking them in January, but having done the google you suggested, I am kicking myself now - I didn't realize it made them more normal.

The Urologist is going to look into hormone therapy or something less proven since he knows there is sperm in there, and is just looking to improve the quality. We will find out what he suggests when we see him April 12th, but Dh is going for additional hormone testing in early April (a month or so after the surgery), so the Urologist has more updated and probably more detailed tests available to make a decision.

They said with a donor back-up, they just would use it if I had extra eggs and they had used up all of DH's sperm. It's not a big deal if we choose not to use Donor, but they just didn't want to waste the whole process, if we are okay with donor if DH's sperm won't work. We have to pay the $10K for IVF (since the only way they cover it, is if both my tubes were blocked). So because we're paying for it, they're okay with doing it, even if it doesn't result in pregnancy.

The mTESE this time, they explored both testicles and only found some on the left, so they'll only explore the left next time, since it's where they found sperm last time.

Brandy


----------



## Deb111

Brandy - the nhs destroyed our 3 sperm as they said their criteria for freezing is 100+. It was heartbreaking after the joy of finding 'some'. Thats why we went privately in the end. After tamoxifen and the mtese the private guy still only found 40ish.

What are your dhs fsh and lh levels like?

You might want to talk to your specialist about the impact on his already lowish testosterone levels. The more tissue they remove, the less ability there is to make testosterone so it can impact future health and mean trt. Just something to ask about so you are fully informed

Get dh back on the omega - youve got more than 3 months til next mtese :thumbup:

Im glad theyre being flexible about the donor back up. Its amazing how flexible people can be when youre the ones footing the bill :winkwink:


----------



## BrandyRelax

Deb111 said:


> Brandy - the nhs destroyed our 3 sperm as they said their criteria for freezing is 100+. It was heartbreaking after the joy of finding 'some'. Thats why we went privately in the end. After tamoxifen and the mtese the private guy still only found 40ish.
> 
> What are your dhs fsh and lh levels like?
> 
> You might want to talk to your specialist about the impact on his already lowish testosterone levels. The more tissue they remove, the less ability there is to make testosterone so it can impact future health and mean trt. Just something to ask about so you are fully informed
> 
> Get dh back on the omega - youve got more than 3 months til next mtese :thumbup:
> 
> Im glad theyre being flexible about the donor back up. Its amazing how flexible people can be when youre the ones footing the bill :winkwink:

I had to dig through my old posts (back on Sept 5th) to find his FSH and LH, and it's 16 and 39, but I don't know which is which. The doctors say that his body recognizes that he's not producing sperm and is trying very hard to do so.

And it reminded me he was on CoQ10, not Omega 3... so that might be an option to try... definitely will mention it to the Urologist, to see how it would help whatever he is suggesting.

And of course... when I'm paying, they'll let me do whatever I want!!

Brandy


----------



## Deb111

I would think the higher is fsh and the lower lh. Those levels indicate primary testicular failure as they did in my hubby but you can never tell to what degree til surgery.As you say, the body is trying to fix it but the fsh can most likely still be pushed a little higher which could help production a bit as in our case. Ask about tamoxifen or anastrazole. I dont think it helps with abnormal sperm but as our urologust said - think of it like a factory - some production lines may be doing nothing, others might be making damaged goods, others might be stopping before the end of the line and some may be working fine. So MAYBE increase the number of sperm and find a few good ones?


----------



## BrandyRelax

Deb111 said:


> I would think the higher is fsh and the lower lh. Those levels indicate primary testicular failure as they did in my hubby but you can never tell to what degree til surgery.As you say, the body is trying to fix it but the fsh can most likely still be pushed a little higher which could help production a bit as in our case. Ask about tamoxifen or anastrazole. I dont think it helps with abnormal sperm but as our urologust said - think of it like a factory - some production lines may be doing nothing, others might be making damaged goods, others might be stopping before the end of the line and some may be working fine. So MAYBE increase the number of sperm and find a few good ones?

I totally agree! I was hoping they would find enough to do IVF, but now I'm just happy that they found some, so that we can try again, and at least have some idea what is going on in there, and hopefully find a magic medication that will make them find some normal sperm on the next mTESE!


----------



## MrsG30

Deb111 said:


> I would say it depends on your clinic. Our nhs one wouldnt get me ready for ER at the same time as ssr because we didnt want a donor back up. When is your appt?


Appt is exact 2 months today- From what I can make out from the letter, its the mtese that takes the time- the pesa/tese shouldnt be too much longer after the 1st app but it does state i would have to be IVF ready.
We are prepared to use a donor but a its a known donor he would need to get the ball rolling too as he has to go through the same process as any other donor

Guess the urologist guy will be able to answer this. :shrug:


----------



## Faali

THAnk you so much everyone for your warm welcomes! :hugs:
I feel so upset at times...sigh...but after reading so many sucess stories here,I am feeling more positive! :)
Our doctor has not prescribed any medicine/vitamins etc...and we have biopsy/TESE on april1!
I am so scared! Please do pray that we find at-least few sperms! 
All the VERY best to each and everyone of you!! I am in the process of reading everyone's journey and I hope that someday we all will get our BFP!:happydance:
xxx


----------



## Izabela

Hi Tulip. My DH has CF and he had sperm retrieval in November 11. They retrieve 6 ampules and the quality was good. His brother same condition and procedure has 3 lovely children, singleton and twins. All doing great.

I am not a carrier so the risks of a child with CF for us are relatively low. No issues with me. The hospital we use aims for 10 mature eggs, so quiet slow process and lower chances. The fertilization was always above 85%.

1st ICSI Feb 12; 1 embryo transfer day 5 BFN but ectopic. Tub removed at 7weeks and 3 days' blood test show normal pregnancy hormone' scan show tubal pregnancy with hearth bit. Full C section.
2nd ICSI July 12. Rushed still not recovered. 6 eggs retrieved. Only one transfered day 3. Hospital said high chances not prepared to put 2. BFN one frozen.

FET November 12 embryo did not expand BFN

3rd ICSI March 13. Waiting for 2 embryo transfer on Sunday day 5. Hope for luck.

Good luck with the retrievel and ICSI. All the best.


----------



## AuCa

Faali said:


> THAnk you so much everyone for your warm welcomes! :hugs:
> I feel so upset at times...sigh...but after reading so many sucess stories here,I am feeling more positive! :)
> Our doctor has not prescribed any medicine/vitamins etc...and we have biopsy/TESE on april1!
> I am so scared! Please do pray that we find at-least few sperms!
> All the VERY best to each and everyone of you!! I am in the process of reading everyone's journey and I hope that someday we all will get our BFP!:happydance:
> xxx

Hi Faali,

I think I forgot to welcome you yet :hugs::hugs:
I wish you all the best for your TESE, hopefully they'll find something :hugs:


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## tulip11

Hi Izabela good luck.. thanks


----------



## Faali

Thanks Auca!:) I just wish and pray that all of us find sperms eventually!
How long is the whole TESE procedure?i have read some people saying that it took hours and for some it was just about 30 min:/ 
xx


----------



## tulip11

Are there any side effects of sperms retrieval procedures later on tbh I am afraid of prostate probl3m ?


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## Deb111

Main thing i am aware of tulip is if they remove testicular tissue there is less there to produce testosterone. This is why they dont like to do too many procedures. Low test causes brittle bones so would need test replacement therapy if too low


----------



## bluelily

Hi all,
This is my first time on so hopefully I'm posting correctly. 
My husband & I have been TTC for nearly 18 mths. To date hubby has had 2SA which both showed no sperm. Referred to consultant who we saw start Dec hoping to get some answers. Apart from a look & feel of hubby's bits he then went on to tell us that that there are 2 reasons for no sperm, 1. a blockage & 2. not producing any & that he thought we fell into the latter.
As you can imagine it felt like the rug had ben wipped out from below us. Both were in a state of shock so couldn't ask any questions. 
He went on to say our options - sperm doner, adoption.... & testicular biopsy but said he didn't thnk would find anything but there might be a small chance??
As you can imagine we are very confused - how does he know this already?
He took bood tests from us & sent us on our way, & we are hopefully due to see him again sometime this month.
Just wondering how consultant would know all this & if so should he have not explained this to us?
We are both totally devastated & trying to hold things together whilst not knowing much to be able to move on from.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Deb111

Welcome bluelily. Im sorry you find yourself in this situation. He is probably - not very helpfully - basing this on.previous experience. As you say without an ultrasound and / or bloods he cant begin to know.

Got to dash but keep your chin up. Its a tough journey - just keep talking x c


----------



## AuCa

Hi bluelily, and sorry to hear about your diagnosis :hugs::hugs::hugs:
I think we can all relate to what you are going through right now, and it is definitely not pretty, :hugs::hugs::hugs:

I second Deb - he won't know for sure until you guys did all sorts of tests (not just blood tests but also genetic tests and ultrasounds). Don't give up hope yet. I also wonder if you maybe should get a 2nd opinion at some time point.


----------



## bluelily

Thanks for your replies ladies!
Yeah we have agreed that we we need to be more prepared when we next go to our consultant and those are things we will have to ask about. If anyone has anymore advise on what to ask we would be much appreciated as we are still a bit lost as to what to expect/what we should be asking etc.
Good luck to everyone here going through the same thing - its good to know we are not alone. x


----------



## MrsG30

bluelily said:


> Thanks for your replies ladies!
> Yeah we have agreed that we we need to be more prepared when we next go to our consultant and those are things we will have to ask about. If anyone has anymore advise on what to ask we would be much appreciated as we are still a bit lost as to what to expect/what we should be asking etc.
> Good luck to everyone here going through the same thing - its good to know we are not alone. x

were all in the same boat here hun- try and keep faith like the others girls said.
hopefully after a few more tests/consultations you will be clearer on what comes next hun.

in the meantime stay strong and look after each other :hugs:


----------



## Deb111

bluelily said:


> Thanks for your replies ladies!
> Yeah we have agreed that we we need to be more prepared when we next go to our consultant and those are things we will have to ask about. If anyone has anymore advise on what to ask we would be much appreciated as we are still a bit lost as to what to expect/what we should be asking etc.
> Good luck to everyone here going through the same thing - its good to know we are not alone. x

I put a spoiler on the first page of this group with some things to ask at firsr appt x


----------



## Verity Belle

Sorry been away few days, any new people hello and welcome everybody here is very nice and welcoming.
Hope everyone is ok, had a horrid day today found out someone i work with everyday is pregnant, had a bit of a melt down, i am really pleased for her but also on a selfish level really sad for myself, sorry for rambling xx


----------



## rdleela

Verity Belle said:


> Sorry been away few days, any new people hello and welcome everybody here is very nice and welcoming.
> Hope everyone is ok, had a horrid day today found out someone i work with everyday is pregnant, had a bit of a melt down, i am really pleased for her but also on a selfish level really sad for myself, sorry for rambling xx

I don't think it's selfish AT ALL to feel sad for yourself!!! It is the hardest thing ever to feel happy for someone else while feeling very, very sad for yourself, please don't let yourselves think you are being selfish in having these feelings, they are very normal and are not "bad"...after sometime, and realization that you are NOT a selfish bitch ;) - you will start to take in the pregnancy announcements without running to the bathroom sobbing :)

A pregnancy announcement is just a reminder of what you can't have...for now ;)
You are not bitter at that person, you are bitter at your own situation...


----------



## AuCa

Hi ladies,

a question for the more experienced amongst you - we just got a bunch of results back for DH, and I was wondering if we can possibly draw any conclusions from this...

His FSH/LH, and prolactin are all normal, but his testosterone is low.
As for genetic testing, Y chromosome microdeletions are not present, still waiting for karyotype results.

Is there anything the hormone level results are telling us? (our consult is only in 2 weeks, and I'm getting impatient)


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## Deb111

Normal fsh and lh suggest there may be a blockage but that production is normal. Theres no guarantee though but would in my opinion suggest an ultrasound to look for a blockage


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## AuCa

Thanks Deb! I don't know why our doc hasn't ordered an ultrasound yet, so frustrating (he mentioned it but didn't want to order it). His reasoning was that there was a handful of sperm in the SA, so likely not a blockage.


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## MrsG30

Verity Belle said:


> Sorry been away few days, any new people hello and welcome everybody here is very nice and welcoming.
> Hope everyone is ok, had a horrid day today found out someone i work with everyday is pregnant, had a bit of a melt down, i am really pleased for her
> but also on a selfish level really sad for myself, sorry for rambling xx

Im with you on that hun- one of my besties is pregnant and i am estatic for her, i love her shes my mate but by god its makes me furious, sad, upset, angry the whole lot.

your not alone- got the baby shower and birth to contend with yet.
she is really supportive but how can she really understand why is is expecting. 

Im pleased you lot are here with knowledge experience and too listen xxx


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## Deb111

AuCa said:


> Thanks Deb! I don't know why our doc hasn't ordered an ultrasound yet, so frustrating (he mentioned it but didn't want to order it). His reasoning was that there was a handful of sperm in the SA, so likely not a blockage.

Maybe not a TOTAL blockage?? My hubby didnt have a scan but then his bloods didnt suggest a blockage so maybe your dr was waiting for blood results x


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## MrsG30

Ladies.

any advise would be helpful
We have recieved a letter from our FS this morning- from what i can gather this isnt great news:
FSH @ 35.1 Testosterone "on the low" side which indicates the primary problem is with the testes growing sperm rather than a blockage.

I presumed this as he had bad mumps age at the age for 20.

We have a uroligst app in May but am i right in thinking the chnace of sperm being found are very low based on this?

thanks


----------



## tulip11

Hi Mrs G30 my DH had done all his blood test n ll hormones levels came back normal gp said no further action required our first appointment with urologist ill be on April 19th.. my question is that is this 
The first time yur dh had blood tests ? Or does these blood tests indicate something more what kind of azoospermia that would be ?


----------



## MrsG30

tulip11 said:


> Hi Mrs G30 my DH had done all his blood test n ll hormones levels came back normal gp said no further action required our first appointment with urologist ill be on April 19th.. my question is that is this
> The first time yur dh had blood tests ? Or does these blood tests indicate something more what kind of azoospermia that would be ?


Tulip- the letter states "rather than a blockage problem" so I think that is suggesting "NOA" 
He has 2 SA and 1 lot of bloods.
Weve been to our FS and it was them than referred us to the urolgist and we go there early may


----------



## AuCa

Hi MrsG30,

this is a finding common for non-obstructive azoospermia. I think Deb and some others have explained it in previous posts - your DH has what is called "primary testicular failure", which means that the problem is within his testes (that's also why he has low testosterone). The body then tries to increase production and ramps up the FSH/LH.

As for the chance of finding sperm, I'm not sure unfortunately. 
Did he have tests for karyotype and Y chromosome microdeletions? But as you said, it's probably due to mumps. 
I guess the only way to find out is through TESE.

My DH seems to have a similar thing. We first thought that his FSH was normal (one doc told us that), but then the specialized urologist told us that it is slightly elevated (his is 8), and his testosterone is also low-ish. However, he is not completely azoospermic, there is always a few single sperm in his ejaculate. I'm guessing this is related to his hormone levels which are not entirely off the chart.


----------



## AuCa

tulip11 said:


> Hi Mrs G30 my DH had done all his blood test n ll hormones levels came back normal gp said no further action required our first appointment with urologist ill be on April 19th.. my question is that is this
> The first time yur dh had blood tests ? Or does these blood tests indicate something more what kind of azoospermia that would be ?

Tulip, what were his levels?
You might want to discuss this with your specialist, as I think GPs often don't realize that the levels are in fact NOT normal. Our GP, and one doc who is not specialized on male infertility both told us that DH's levels are normal, but in reality they are not at all. Only the urologist specialized on male infertility knew enough to tell us that. 
GPs just look at the reference ranges, and if it is within the range they think it is normal. But often it is not, even if it is within the range (for example, somewhat low testosterone levels could be normal for a man in his 60s, but not for a man in his 30s; but a GP most likely won't know).


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Hi MrsG30,
> 
> this is a finding common for non-obstructive azoospermia. I think Deb and some others have explained it in previous posts - your DH has what is called "primary testicular failure", which means that the problem is within his testes (that's also why he has low testosterone). The body then tries to increase production and ramps up the FSH/LH.
> 
> As for the chance of finding sperm, I'm not sure unfortunately.
> Did he have tests for karyotype and Y chromosome microdeletions? But as you said, it's probably due to mumps.
> I guess the only way to find out is through TESE.
> 
> My DH seems to have a similar thing. We first thought that his FSH was normal (one doc told us that), but then the specialized urologist told us that it is slightly elevated (his is 8), and his testosterone is also low-ish. However, he is not completely azoospermic, there is always a few single sperm in his ejaculate. I'm guessing this is related to his hormone levels which are not entirely off the chart.

Hi Hun.
Had a total meltdown after getting this letter- although i was sure this was the case its just hit me hard.
Hubby keeps saying whats the point in having any thing done we should go straight to donor! im so confused.

I was sure the mumps had caused trauma but i really hoped there would be a few sperms in there so at least my hubby could have a shot at it.
I know i might be jumping a head and maybe they will find something but i feel so deflated, not even for me but for my hubby :(

I waiting for Debs to come along i know she is soo clued up

I just cant seem to pull myself round today 

thanks for replying xxx


----------



## AuCa

I'm so sorry MrsG30 :hug::hug:

I don't think you should give up yet. Does he have a TESE scheduled already?


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## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> I'm so sorry MrsG30 :hug::hug:
> 
> I don't think you should give up yet. Does he have a TESE scheduled already?

We have a app booked in for 9th may for urology department but thats just inital consultation, apprently the wait for some of tests performed is 9 month in the Uk. Feeling horrendous today and hubby is in a right state.
At least i hope at this app the urologist will be able to tell us the way forward???

We have our own donor but he has to go through the usual procedures like any other donor would so i hope we can start that ball rolling soon too even if its just back up.
:hugs:


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## Deb111

Here I come mrsG! :winkwink:

Right deep breath and dont give up hope. Obviously I dont want to get your hopes up unrealistically but all is not lost.

My hubby hadnt had mumps so that may affect things but his testosterone was just under the lower limit and his fsh was raised. An fsh of 28 rings a bell but I need to double check that. A raised fsh indicates the body has detected the problem and is trying to fix it but it can be pushed into the 40's. I remember our specialist saying he had found sperm in a man who had an fsh in the 40's. Im going to try and get on the pc in a bit and link you to some info in my ICSI journal from when we met with our specialist x


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## Jojo27

Mrs g, you will get through this tough time, both you and your DH.
My DH has azoospermia, had ssr and only abnormal sperm found, therefore no luck, however we have accepted this and are now ready to move forward in achieving our long awaited child x x


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## Deb111

Girls - I know I asked this not so long ago but dont think i had many replies and if i did, they got lost in pages of posts - SO if you would like me to add you to the list on the front page or add anyone new, please PM me. If you could type your b'n'b name followed by a sentence or 2 saying where you are at with things, i will update x


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## tigerlily1975

Thanks again, Deb, we'd be lost without you!! I hope little Aimee is doing well :hugs:

Tigerlily: DH on Clomid, hoping to go for private 2nd mTESE/ICSI April/May 2013.

:hi: and :hugs: to all!

C xx


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## Deb111

She is doing great thanks Tiger.
Can you PM me your update as i cant do it easily from phone and it will be much easier if everyones updates are in my PM inbox when i get a chance to get on the pc x x


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## tigerlily1975

Will do. Thanks again, lovely. Give Aimee a little cuddle from her Azoo aunties :hugs:

C xx


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## AuCa

Tigerlily - just saw that your DH is on clomid. This was suggested to us as well, so I was wondering - how long has your DH been on it, and have you seen any results yet? Any significant side effects? Thanks! :hugs:


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## tigerlily1975

:hi: Auca

DH has been on it just over 3 months now. He had a SA just on 3 months and there was nothing, unfortunately. Our consultant is still hopeful though as a few sperm were found when DH had his TESE last year. He suspects that the area where they found sperm is still recovering from the surgery and that the drugs might help kick-start production in that area once healed. DH is off to provide another sample on Tuesday and we should get those results on Friday. As for side effects, DH is not on a particularly high dosage, but according to our consultant the only issue might be an increased sex drive! 

As you and everyone else is aware, Azoo is frustratingly all 'hopes' and 'maybes' most of the time.

Good luck, sweetie and if I can help, do ask. 

:hugs:

C xx


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## raelynn

Mrs G - Just want to give you a little hope from another case as well. My hubby had slightly elevated fsh as well. No mumps again but both our RE and the urologist diagnosed him as NOA. We had a TESE just to see what we could find and they successfully retrieved sperm, enough for us to use for IVF. Unfortunately, we ended up with only 2 embryos so we used them both in one round of IVF. I did get pregnant but miscarried very early on. So there is still hope of finding sperm to use even with NAO.

In our situation, we ultimately chose to go with donor but that was just our personal choice based on cost, hubby not wanting to go through another TESE, and the fear of going through another miscarriage. But, we had the option and even have a vial of a couple of hubby's sperm frozen still in case we choose to go down that route again later. So, don't give up hope. There are still amazing things that can be done medically for you even with this terrible diagnosis.


----------



## MrsG30

Deb111 said:


> Here I come mrsG! :winkwink:
> 
> Right deep breath and dont give up hope. Obviously I dont want to get your hopes up unrealistically but all is not lost.
> 
> My hubby hadnt had mumps so that may affect things but his testosterone was just under the lower limit and his fsh was raised. An fsh of 28 rings a bell but I need to double check that. A raised fsh indicates the body has detected the problem and is trying to fix it but it can be pushed into the 40's. I remember our specialist saying he had found sperm in a man who had an fsh in the 40's. Im going to try and get on the pc in a bit and link you to some info in my ICSI journal from when we met with our specialist x

Hi hun
I knew you would come with your excellant info- very greatful- as i a too all of you.
exactly what your saying is pretty much what our letter says.
look forward to reading your link xx


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## MrsG30

tigerlily1975 said:


> :hi: Auca
> 
> DH has been on it just over 3 months now. He had a SA just on 3 months and there was nothing, unfortunately. Our consultant is still hopeful though as a few sperm were found when DH had his TESE last year. He suspects that the area where they found sperm is still recovering from the surgery and that the drugs might help kick-start production in that area once healed. DH is off to provide another sample on Tuesday and we should get those results on Friday. As for side effects, DH is not on a particularly high dosage, but according to our consultant the only issue might be an increased sex drive!
> 
> As you and everyone else is aware, Azoo is frustratingly all 'hopes' and 'maybes' most of the time.
> 
> Good luck, sweetie and if I can help, do ask.
> 
> 
> 
> C xx

Hi Tiger

how long does DH have to take clomid for and do you know the sucess rates for it improving? thanks hun

:hugs:


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## MrsG30

raelynn said:


> Mrs G - Just want to give you a little hope from another case as well. My hubby had slightly elevated fsh as well. No mumps again but both our RE and the urologist diagnosed him as NOA. We had a TESE just to see what we could find and they successfully retrieved sperm, enough for us to use for IVF. Unfortunately, we ended up with only 2 embryos so we used them both in one round of IVF. I did get pregnant but miscarried very early on. So there is still hope of finding sperm to use even with NAO.
> 
> In our situation, we ultimately chose to go with donor but that was just our personal choice based on cost, hubby not wanting to go through another TESE, and the fear of going through another miscarriage. But, we had the option and even have a vial of a couple of hubby's sperm frozen still in case we choose to go down that route again later. So, don't give up hope. There are still amazing things that can be done medically for you even with this terrible diagnosis.

Raelyn
thanks for this- helped me settle a bit before bed.
my hubby actually suggested exactly what you said you did- he seems to be coping better than me
I feel so sad- not even for me- for him :cry:


----------



## raelynn

I know exactly how you feel! All my sadness and disappointment was wrapped up in hubby not being able to have a biological child. I still think about it now to be honest. But, I asked hubby if it is weird or if he thinks about it at all and he said he doesn't. Now that I'm pregnant all the focus has shifted to baby, not how she came to be. So, regardless of how you get to that final stage of having your little one, you'll just be thrilled to have a baby, I'm sure!


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## BrandyRelax

MrsG30 said:


> Ladies.
> 
> any advise would be helpful
> We have recieved a letter from our FS this morning- from what i can gather this isnt great news:
> FSH @ 35.1 Testosterone "on the low" side which indicates the primary problem is with the testes growing sperm rather than a blockage.
> 
> I presumed this as he had bad mumps age at the age for 20.
> 
> We have a uroligst app in May but am i right in thinking the chnace of sperm being found are very low based on this?
> 
> thanks

I'm no expert here, but I thought I'd chime in.

Our Urologist, who specializes in MFI, said that the FSH levels do not impact the likelihood of finding sperm. He said regardless, the odds are 50/50, and until he gets in there, he can't tell what is causing the issue. We had asked because we wanted to make sure there was a point in doing an mTESE.

My DH's FSH was 39, morning testosterone of 21.6, and LH of 16. They have no idea what is causing my hubby's azoo. They did the mTESE March 5th, and found 3 sperm. The FS believes they're dead but because the Urologist now knows that he is making fully formed sperm (and doesn't have seretoli only or maturation arrest), he can take a different approach and current thought is to do a second mTESE with a fresh IVF cycle.


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## tigerlily1975

:hi: MrsG30

Our consultant has said sperm production is generally three months, which is why he wanted to do the SA after three months on clomid. As for results whilst on the medication, we've not been given any odds regarding success.

As BrandyRelax has said, it seems like they don't really know until they go in, unfortunately. 

Good luck! 

:hugs:

C xx


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## AuCa

tigerlily1975 said:


> As for results whilst on the medication, we've not been given any odds regarding success.

I've actually done some literature search on recent research about this yesterday, and the point is - they don't know. There has only been a few clinical trials with very mixed results. That's why docs won't give a success rate - they literally have no idea.


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## MrsG30

raelynn said:


> I know exactly how you feel! All my sadness and disappointment was wrapped up in hubby not being able to have a biological child. I still think about it now to be honest. But, I asked hubby if it is weird or if he thinks about it at all and he said he doesn't. Now that I'm pregnant all the focus has shifted to baby, not how she came to be. So, regardless of how you get to that final stage of having your little one, you'll just be thrilled to have a baby, I'm sure!

I Know i keep telling myself that and your living proof i guess xxx


----------



## MrsG30

BrandyRelax said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Ladies.
> 
> any advise would be helpful
> We have recieved a letter from our FS this morning- from what i can gather this isnt great news:
> FSH @ 35.1 Testosterone "on the low" side which indicates the primary problem is with the testes growing sperm rather than a blockage.
> 
> I presumed this as he had bad mumps age at the age for 20.
> 
> We have a uroligst app in May but am i right in thinking the chnace of sperm being found are very low based on this?
> 
> thanks
> 
> I'm no expert here, but I thought I'd chime in.
> 
> Our Urologist, who specializes in MFI, said that the FSH levels do not impact the likelihood of finding sperm. He said regardless, the odds are 50/50, and until he gets in there, he can't tell what is causing the issue. We had asked because we wanted to make sure there was a point in doing an mTESE.
> 
> My DH's FSH was 39, morning testosterone of 21.6, and LH of 16. They have no idea what is causing my hubby's azoo. They did the mTESE March 5th, and found 3 sperm. The FS believes they're dead but because the Urologist now knows that he is making fully formed sperm (and doesn't have seretoli only or maturation arrest), he can take a different approach and current thought is to do a second mTESE with a fresh IVF cycle.Click to expand...

Hi Hun
wow, thanks for that- so what did they do with the 3 they did found? xxx:hugs:


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## WannabemomRN

I've been MIA for a few months. DH was put on a 12 week round of ovedril by fertility doc. Until this month I have been cool as a cucumber, but now that we're down to the wire preparing for another SA and lab draws I'm a wreck. Of all the times for my body to go haywire it picks this month. I started spotting friday (roughly one week before period due) so my wack spidey senses decide that the medication must have worked, it's implantation bleeding! Since we're all made of money I start buying boocoo prego tests. My crazy mind has seen that coveted second line (last month) but MD confirmed the test lied. Anyone else been through this craziness?!?!? I'm losing my mind. My bathroom trash: Where prego tests go to die.


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## MrsG30

Hi Ladies,

folloing on from FSH and test letter last week, yesterday we got a letter stating DH is not a CF carrier and is chromo's are all in good working order??? Can anyone shed any light?
so thats 
FS:35.1
test: on the low side
not a CF carrier
and Chromos are normal

thanks girls xxx


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## AuCa

Welcome back WannabemomRN :hugs:
Is ovedril HCG? Please update us when you have your SA results, as I'm trying to figure out if my DH should be put on meds too or not.
I totally get it. I still POAS, although I rationally do know that there is really no point, and that I just can't get pregnant naturally right now :blush: I don't know why I still do it...


MrsG30:
Good news about the genetic tests! :thumbup: 
His FSH is very high, and together with the low testosterone I think that points towards testicular failure.
It is important to know the genetic results, because if your DH would have a problem there he might pass it onto any of your potential children. So, if they do find sperm in the TESE, you should be ok to use it.


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Welcome back WannabemomRN :hugs:
> Is ovedril HCG? Please update us when you have your SA results, as I'm trying to figure out if my DH should be put on meds too or not.
> I totally get it. I still POAS, although I rationally do know that there is really no point, and that I just can't get pregnant naturally right now :blush: I don't know why I still do it...
> 
> 
> MrsG30:
> Good news about the genetic tests! :thumbup:
> His FSH is very high, and together with the low testosterone I think that points towards testicular failure.
> It is important to know the genetic results, because if your DH would have a problem there he might pass it onto any of your potential children. So, if they do find sperm in the TESE, you should be ok to use it.

Hi Love
Yes thats what i thinking, i have done lots of research on high FSH blah blah blah and pretty much convinced the mups caused test failure. My consultant has told us this does notlower the chance in him finding any sperm??? DH currently is saying if the success of them fnding any is too low he wants to go straight to donor?????
Im taking the CF and Genetic results as a postive xxx


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> DH currently is saying if the success of them fnding any is too low he wants to go straight to donor?????
> Im taking the CF and Genetic results as a postive xxx

Yes, those results are definitely positive hun :hugs::hugs:
Do you think your DH is afraid of the TESE? Maybe your RE can talk him through the procedure and ease his mind. Would you be ok with going straight to donor right now?


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> DH currently is saying if the success of them fnding any is too low he wants to go straight to donor?????
> Im taking the CF and Genetic results as a postive xxx
> 
> Yes, those results are definitely positive hun :hugs::hugs:
> Do you think your DH is afraid of the TESE? Maybe your RE can talk him through the procedure and ease his mind. Would you be ok with going straight to donor right now?Click to expand...

I dont think he is frightened hun- he said he will go through anything to get wat we want but i think his mind is clouded by "i want a baby, i want one now and im going to get one in th quickest way possible" I understand why he thinks that but im thinking he derserves the best possible chance at having his own bilogical child.
I think after speaking to our FS he might be more wiling to go for the TESE I think he might be be frightened of thr result rather than the procedure??

I have said i will support his decision whatever he decides but he knows my feelings about giving himself the best chnace b4 we consider donor?
:hugs::hugs:


----------



## raelynn

MrsG - My hubby was the same way. He said he just wished someone could tell him ahead of time if there was a good chance of finding sperm or not at all. It is so tough all the uncertainty that goes with this.


----------



## tigerlily1975

raelynn said:


> MrsG - My hubby was the same way. He said he just wished someone could tell him ahead of time if there was a good chance of finding sperm or not at all. It is so tough all the uncertainty that goes with this.

Yes, that's absolutely it!

Congrats on team :pink: :happydance:

C xx


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## keziah23

I think my husband was the same way, when we got the call that they had found enough sperm to bank I could just see the tension wash out of him.


----------



## AuCa

Keziah - what are your plans now? Are you guys on the way to IVF?

MrsG30 - I see. To be honest, I don't even know what my DH thinks, I just know that he would definitely do TESE if necessary. He does NOT want to use donor sperm, so anything to get his own child I guess.


----------



## MrsG30

raelynn said:


> MrsG - My hubby was the same way. He said he just wished someone could tell him ahead of time if there was a good chance of finding sperm or not at all. It is so tough all the uncertainty that goes with this.

Raelynn- thats exactly how hubby feels- i see you went to donor? was that because they found none or it wasnt good enough to use? xxx


----------



## MrsG30

keziah23 said:


> I think my husband was the same way, when we got the call that they had found enough sperm to bank I could just see the tension wash out of him.

Keziah- You hubby had NOA too? when we got the letter to tell us i autoatically presumed that NOA was the worst and no sperm would b found. Im still not confident they will? Did the FS think they would would your hubby or was it total chance?


----------



## MrsG30

:hugs:


AuCa said:


> Keziah - what are your plans now? Are you guys on the way to IVF?
> 
> MrsG30 - I see. To be honest, I don't even know what my DH thinks, I just know that he would definitely do TESE if necessary. He does NOT want to use donor sperm, so anything to get his own child I guess.

Auca- I get that- its a huge thing for our hubbys deal with- if its not good at the TESE (Fingers xd) then what?


----------



## awifey

I'm having the hardest time trying to get the husband to see a urologist. All we know is that his SA results had 0 sperm, even after centrifuge. We tested over two months ago. I'm frustrated because our deal was that if I got all checked out, he would too. All my tests were normal, just waiting on him, now. :(


----------



## raelynn

MrsG - NOA doesn't necessarily mean no sperm will be found. There have been several cases in this group where sperm were found even with NOA so there is always hope!


----------



## Verity Belle

Awifey i have the same trouble my hubby is reluctant to have the tests we need from him, i had all mine and they came back all good so you're not alone with this frustration, patience and a gentle reminder of why you are going through all this for the end result of a child has worked abit for me, good luck x:flower:


----------



## Soili

awifey said:


> I'm having the hardest time trying to get the husband to see a urologist. All we know is that his SA results had 0 sperm, even after centrifuge. We tested over two months ago. I'm frustrated because our deal was that if I got all checked out, he would too. All my tests were normal, just waiting on him, now. :(

Talk to him, hun. You can't do those things based on deals and agreements. He probably has a reason why he's reluctant to go for further tests. It could be denial or embarrassment or anything else. Infertility is not one person's issue, it's a couple's issue, no matter who's medical condition is responsible. You gotta work as a team.


----------



## MrsG30

Can only scho the other girls- speak with your hubby- find out why- you cant do this alone- you both need to be on the same page- even though its the worst page ever :hugs:


----------



## Hopeful Cat

popping head in again with new news.
my husband had a tfna last week to see if they could find any sperm and to get more information about why he has NOA. His male fertility specialist went on holidays straight after the procedure so we had to get the results from my female fertility specialist. She advised us that he has Sertoli-Cell Only syndrome :( and pretty much inferred that there was nothing more to do (look towards Donor sperm or adoption). We were devastated but I did a bit more research and had more question as it doesn't appear to be a no hope prognosis. Anyway, she called the male fertility specialist on his holiday and asked for his opinion and he said he still wants to do the biopse (mTESE) because improvements in technology means there is still a chance to find sperm. Was really kind of annoyed at my specialist for calling and giving us worst news possible WITHOUT referring to the male specialist who did the procedure first.

Is there anybody else that has had this diagnosis? We have appointment to discuss with specialist in 3 weeks time. Getting tired of all these long waits between everything.

Also - for anybody thinking about donor as a backup or anything i found a good website. My husband was really upset and against the idea but he found the stories really helpful in getting a new perspective and is actually quite ok with that option now if it comes to it. Website is called the donor conception network


----------



## SunUp

Hopeful, DH has SCO in 95% and 5% mature spermatogenesis...

We chose DS because we couldn't risk another surgery (long story) but there is definitely a possibility.


----------



## Deb111

Hopeful - my hubby had some areas of SCO - they cant know to what extent until they do surgical procedure


----------



## AuCa

Soili said:


> He probably has a reason why he's reluctant to go for further tests. It could be denial or embarrassment or anything else.

Well said. It might be both (I know for sure that my DH feels both).
I'm very sorry to hear that your husbands are so reluctant to get tested/see a specialist Awifey and Verity Belle :hugs::hugs: I really hope they will come around. 

Hopeful Cat - honestly, not all specialists always know what they're talking about/agree on results/outcomes. The 3 we talked so far all gave us different opinions. It can be very frustrating. But that's why I think it's always a good idea to get a 2nd/3rd opinion and never just believe one doc/go with what he/she says.
And the wait is really frustrating :hugs:


AFM - had our consult at the local fertility clinic today. I was not at all impressed with the doc (very rude, dismissive, didn't even say hi when he entered the room), and was actually really depressed afterwards (now I know why the got those infertility counselors there - because you need one of them after you see one of their docs :growlmad:). I'm still quite upset, but maybe I just need time to process.
He didn't really explain much of anything, just ordered more tests, said that we "probably have enough sperm for ICSI", but wants to do another SA with an ICSI prep (I guess it's kind of a trial run, pretending that it's real IVF, to see what they can get). And also told me that he won't treat us until I've seen a hematologist, since I had a slightly elevated platelet count. I'm a little irritated by this, because my GP told me that it's really not that high and nothing to worry about. And now my GP is on vacation, and I can't even see her to get a referral for weeks. And once I get a referral it'll probably take months to actually see a hematologist.
I just can't believe that now we'll have to wait around because of me, and probably for no reason at all :growlmad::growlmad:

In the meantime we signed up for the mandatory IVF info session (May 30 was the earliest we could book) and went on the IVF waitlist. I don't think anything is going to happen before summer though. I am so annoyed today.


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> Soili said:
> 
> 
> He probably has a reason why he's reluctant to go for further tests. It could be denial or embarrassment or anything else.
> 
> Well said. It might be both (I know for sure that my DH feels both).
> I'm very sorry to hear that your husbands are so reluctant to get tested/see a specialist Awifey and Verity Belle :hugs::hugs: I really hope they will come around.
> 
> Hopeful Cat - honestly, not all specialists always know what they're talking about/agree on results/outcomes. The 3 we talked so far all gave us different opinions. It can be very frustrating. But that's why I think it's always a good idea to get a 2nd/3rd opinion and never just believe one doc/go with what he/she says.
> And the wait is really frustrating :hugs:
> 
> 
> AFM - had our consult at the local fertility clinic today. I was not at all impressed with the doc (very rude, dismissive, didn't even say hi when he entered the room), and was actually really depressed afterwards (now I know why the got those infertility counselors there - because you need one of them after you see one of their docs :growlmad:). I'm still quite upset, but maybe I just need time to process.
> He didn't really explain much of anything, just ordered more tests, said that we "probably have enough sperm for ICSI", but wants to do another SA with an ICSI prep (I guess it's kind of a trial run, pretending that it's real IVF, to see what they can get). And also told me that he won't treat us until I've seen a hematologist, since I had a slightly elevated platelet count. I'm a little irritated by this, because my GP told me that it's really not that high and nothing to worry about. And now my GP is on vacation, and I can't even see her to get a referral for weeks. And once I get a referral it'll probably take months to actually see a hematologist.
> I just can't believe that now we'll have to wait around because of me, and probably for no reason at all :growlmad::growlmad:
> 
> In the meantime we signed up for the mandatory IVF info session (May 30 was the earliest we could book) and went on the IVF waitlist. I don't think anything is going to happen before summer though. I am so annoyed today.Click to expand...

Hiya Hun

wow- thats a lot for you to take. That doc sounds awful!!! you would think in the situations were in they would be patient and sympathic. Im yet to experience a rud Doc or FS just a reception lady so far an that made me annoyed enough so i feel for you.

Just do as thy say hun and give it your best shot- try and enjoy your waiting time.

Does hubby need SSR or is there enough in his SA? xxxx:hugs:


----------



## Soili

AuCa, really sorry about the doc you have to deal with! Ours is not exactly super warm person either. I've learned to not rely on them for moral support though. I listen and take notes of their procedure protocols, the hoops we're going to need to jump through, and the timelines to expect. I try not to get emotionally involved at all during consultations.

It is true that they seem to have those therapists and counselors to actually properly answer your questions and address your concerns ;) We had a mandatory IVF consult with a therapist in September. I was afraid it'd be like some sort of shrink appointment. But she basically was there to fill us in on how things work, what to expect, all the stuff FS didn't wanna go into much detail explaining. It was quite nice to be able to just talk like normal people do LOL


----------



## MrsG30

Girls-
Ive been reading back through this thread and it seems FS do different things, can anyone advise me what will be coming for us next (just a idea).
Ive had my bloods and scans and have polycysytic looking ovaries and Im taking met which seems tto be controlling it. FS says Im not issue and ovulation can be induced if need be?
DH has Azoo, FSH 35.1, on the low TEST, Not a CF carrier and Chromo tests all normal.
We have an app on the 9th May to see a urologist and this where im confused as what will happen next? What should we be asking? 
Whates tests are next?
The FS said we wont be seeing her again until the urolgist is finished with us?

My main concern is if we wait a while for the urolgist to do his bit (Weve been told its a 9 month wait for some of the procedures) and we dont get any swimmers and have to go to donor, I dont want to start the donor process then I would rather start is now even just as a backback.

Hope that makes sence- Mind is in overdrive today.

Hope all you ladies are OK :hugs: XXX


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> Hiya Hun
> 
> wow- thats a lot for you to take. That doc sounds awful!!! you would think in the situations were in they would be patient and sympathic. Im yet to experience a rud Doc or FS just a reception lady so far an that made me annoyed enough so i feel for you.
> 
> Just do as thy say hun and give it your best shot- try and enjoy your waiting time.
> 
> Does hubby need SSR or is there enough in his SA? xxxx:hugs:

Thanks MrsG :hugs:
I'm still upset, and every time I think about it I get a huge headache. Ugh.

As for your question - we don't know for sure yet. The doc said he suspects that DH has "hypospermatogenesis".
I just did some reading, and I believe there is 3 major causes for testicular failure (somebody correct me if I'm wrong pls) : Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome (where the testes only have Sertoli cells, but no other cells), spermatogenic arrest (where development of sperm is affected), and hypospermatogenesis (where all cells are present, but for some reason the testes produce only very little mature sperm, or none at all).

The only way to diagnose it for sure is to do a biopsy. DH always has a few sperm in his SA (5 total this time, so really few, but not zero). We asked the doc if he thinks that we would have enough for an IVF ICSI cycle, and he told us that likely yes, but not sure. He said we need to do an "ICSI prep" (have an appt for it after Easter). Essentially DH has to go to the lab, produce his sample, and they will treat it as if we were going to do IVF. Not sure what they do, but I guess they spin everything down, wash it, do a detailed analysis etc. And that will tell us if he'll need SSR or not.


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Hiya Hun
> 
> wow- thats a lot for you to take. That doc sounds awful!!! you would think in the situations were in they would be patient and sympathic. Im yet to experience a rud Doc or FS just a reception lady so far an that made me annoyed enough so i feel for you.
> 
> Just do as thy say hun and give it your best shot- try and enjoy your waiting time.
> 
> Does hubby need SSR or is there enough in his SA? xxxx:hugs:
> 
> Thanks MrsG :hugs:
> I'm still upset, and every time I think about it I get a huge headache. Ugh.
> 
> As for your question - we don't know for sure yet. The doc said he suspects that DH has "hypospermatogenesis".
> I just did some reading, and I believe there is 3 major causes for testicular failure (somebody correct me if I'm wrong pls) : Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome (where the testes only have Sertoli cells, but no other cells), spermatogenic arrest (where development of sperm is affected), and hypospermatogenesis (where all cells are present, but for some reason the testes produce only very little mature sperm, or none at all).
> 
> The only way to diagnose it for sure is to do a biopsy. DH always has a few sperm in his SA (5 total this time, so really few, but not zero). We asked the doc if he thinks that we would have enough for an IVF ICSI cycle, and he told us that likely yes, but not sure. He said we need to do an "ICSI prep" (have an appt for it after Easter). Essentially DH has to go to the lab, produce his sample, and they will treat it as if we were going to do IVF. Not sure what they do, but I guess they spin everything down, wash it, do a detailed analysis etc. And that will tell us if he'll need SSR or not.Click to expand...

What biopsy diagnoses which of the 1? and is 1 worse than the other ( sorry if i sound stupid :blush:)

So is the prep pretty much what would happen in ICSI? If they get something from his sample you will go for it without the SSR if they dont or its not good enough they will do the SSR?

My Hubby never has any in his SA so i think my process will be different?
Ive heard some horror stories about urology just thinking the SSR is "not worth it" I hope we can make that decision ourselves :dohh: xxx


----------



## awifey

Ladies, 
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> What biopsy diagnoses which of the 1? and is 1 worse than the other ( sorry if i sound stupid :blush:)
> 
> So is the prep pretty much what would happen in ICSI? If they get something from his sample you will go for it without the SSR if they dont or its not good enough they will do the SSR?
> 
> My Hubby never has any in his SA so i think my process will be different?
> Ive heard some horror stories about urology just thinking the SSR is "not worth it" I hope we can make that decision ourselves :dohh: xxx

You don't sound stupid, don't worry :hugs:
The biopsy could tell which one he has (so, 1, 2, or 3). And yes, I think some of them are "worse" than others (as in "probability to find sperm), but it also depends again (even if you have one type, there is varying degrees of severity).

Yes, if they get enough we probably won't do SSR.
And yes, I would assume your husband would probably have to do SSR either way, and see if they can find something. :hugs:


----------



## Soili

awifey said:


> Ladies,
> Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

Please, don't be offended. But it sounds like you're blaming him. I know it must be frustrating that he doesn't seem to want to deal with the situation. Try to see it from his side. He wanted to have children with you, and now he's facing a probability that it might not happen (at least not without invasive medical procedures). It's a LOT for a guy to deal with. Especially if he senses that your relationship could be threaten in some way or that you're holding a grudge against him.

You gotta try to have a heart-to-heart conversation about his fears and give him a lot of reassurance. Otherwise, it's a wait game until he comes around.

Again, I really hope I didn't offend you in any way. Just trying to help. It's not an easy thing to deal with.


----------



## AuCa

awifey said:


> Ladies,
> Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

:hugs::hugs::hugs:
Mine won't talk about it either, and also refuses to read anything related to the topic. Luckily he does go for all the tests etc though (because in reality he wants a bio child more than I do).

When did you get your diagnosis again? I do understand that it is a trauma for a guy, and hard to deal with, but I also think that he needs to acknowledge that he is still in a relationship with you. Which means anything he does (or doesn't do) affects you too. Honestly, I think women tend to take on all the burden themselves, are understanding and supportive. But often men don't return these efforts. And I think that's the situation you are in.Your DH is so hung up with himself, that he doesn't realize that you are in this too. Everybody always says "infertility is a couple's problem" - then BOTH people should be in it!

I think I have a different opinion than Soili (no offense either) - I think the process should be truly a couple's process. Men can't just do what they always do and close themselves off the world and ignore everything. There has to be some sort of openness and communication about it, in the end we are their wives/partners, not some random people on the street. And we are implicated in the whole thing too (in the end WE will have people poking around in our private parts, not the guys).


----------



## Soili

I never did deny it was a couple's process. In fact I think the only way a couple could survive through infertility diagnosis, is if they work together. But in my opinion it's not going to work out if there's any sort of blame or finger pointing, even if it's unspoken. 

Not all people are the same. When presented with a problem, some jump right in and want to fix it. Others need more time to process and might need help to deal with certain emotions and obstacles. What I was saying was that a heart-to-heart conversation and some reassurance might help to get things moving along.


----------



## AuCa

Soili said:


> I never did deny it was a couple's process. In fact I think the only way a couple could survive through infertility diagnosis, is if they work together. But in my opinion it's not going to work out if there's any sort of blame or finger pointing, even if it's unspoken.

Yes, you're definitely right about that, no denying about it. I didn't get the feeling that awifey was blaming him though (but these things are obviously really hard to judge in the online world).



> Not all people are the same. When presented with a problem, some jump right in and want to fix it. Others need more time to process and might need help to deal with certain emotions and obstacles. What I was saying was that a heart-to-heart conversation and some reassurance might help to get things moving along.

You are also right that people deal with difficult situations differently. I do wonder though if reassurance and heart-to-heard conversations work with (certain types of) men though, as I find that they tend to close themselves off (mine is like that, awifey's seems to be like that too). Did it work for you guys?
I can just say that I've give mine reassurance non-stop, and he still refuses to face the issue. Don't get me wrong, that's completely his right (if that's his way of coping). At some time point that doesn't work anymore though. Depending on where in your journey you are, he just will HAVE to come around and face it, as I have no intention to go through IVF with a non-supportive partner who does not want to talk about anything. So, all I'm saying is that at some time point WE need their support too, and they gotta get off their "this is my problem"-train and realize that it's our problem.


----------



## AuCa

PS- I also did not want to offend you Soili, sorry if I did :hugs: We maybe just have different opinions on this. I might be wrong, who knows...


----------



## sdb123

My DH has had two SA, which my OB/GYN ordered, come back showing zero sperm. We were referred to a reproductive resource center a few hours away.
I have called around like a maniac to find someone locally that can preform the initial blood tests and physical exams.... whatever is the first step. 
Success today with getting into a urologist at the end of next month!

One question that I have for you ladies:
He had taken double doses (which the bottle said you could do) of some testosterone pill a couple of week before the first SA. Bless him for doing it thinking that it would help the situation. Now, he thinks this is the reason for the results.
Logically, I am thinking that we have tried for 17 months without success. The likely hood of one week of this dropping a normal count to zero is slim to none. I guess it's be possible that he had a very low count before and this is what killed the rest off? I don't know.

Any input or experience with this???
I am tempted to go back and read every post on this thread....


----------



## Soili

AuCa said:


> PS- I also did not want to offend you Soili, sorry if I did :hugs: We maybe just have different opinions on this. I might be wrong, who knows...

Not at all, hun! :hugs: We're all just trying our best to help each other.

AuCa, I'll be honest, I didn't consider situation where a partner doesn't want to discuss things, because he's focused on it being "his problem" only! I now get exactly what you're saying! 

If that's the case, awifey, I sincerely apologize for my wrong assumptions!


----------



## AuCa

Hi sdb123,

and sorry that you have to join this thread :hugs::hugs:
Glad that you found a local urologist who can get you guys started (as this process takes forever anyway).

About the testosterone - I am really not sure about this, but I would think that the testosterone would only affect future sperm production. Sperm production takes months (I think something like 72 days or so), so my thinking is that any sperm that he would have had at the SA would already have been produced 2-3 months earlier. Hope that makes sense. Hence I don't think the zero sperm came from the testosterone. I think the testosterone shuts down sperm production, it does not kill the sperm a guy already has (that's my understanding).

PS - I guess it depends how many weeks before the SA exactly he took it..do you know?


----------



## Chickensoup85

> they gotta get off their "this is my problem"-train and realize that it's our problem.

I completely agree with this statement. Soon after the initial diagnosis my husband very much felt like this and would say things like, "it's got nothing to do with you." or, "it doesn't affect you anyway." mainly in reference to various appointments. This actually upset me more than anything that he couldn't see that it is "our" problem, not his.


----------



## awifey

Soili said:


> awifey said:
> 
> 
> Ladies,
> Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.
> 
> Please, don't be offended. But it sounds like you're blaming him. I know it must be frustrating that he doesn't seem to want to deal with the situation. Try to see it from his side. He wanted to have children with you, and now he's facing a probability that it might not happen (at least not without invasive medical procedures). It's a LOT for a guy to deal with. Especially if he senses that your relationship could be threaten in some way or that you're holding a grudge against him.
> 
> You gotta try to have a heart-to-heart conversation about his fears and give him a lot of reassurance. Otherwise, it's a wait game until he comes around.
> 
> Again, I really hope I didn't offend you in any way. Just trying to help. It's not an easy thing to deal with.Click to expand...


I m not offended. I am just frustrated that he avoids the discussion, especially whilst we are in a country where we have great medical insurance and the tests and procedures are a small fraction of what they cost in the US, to which we are returning in about 3 months. There is no grudge here, our relationship has no threats from this. 



AuCa said:


> awifey said:
> 
> 
> Ladies,
> Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.
> 
> :hugs::hugs::hugs:
> Mine won't talk about it either, and also refuses to read anything related to the topic. Luckily he does go for all the tests etc though (because in reality he wants a bio child more than I do).
> 
> When did you get your diagnosis again? I do understand that it is a trauma for a guy, and hard to deal with, but I also think that he needs to acknowledge that he is still in a relationship with you. Which means anything he does (or doesn't do) affects you too. Honestly, I think women tend to take on all the burden themselves, are understanding and supportive. But often men don't return these efforts. And I think that's the situation you are in.Your DH is so hung up with himself, that he doesn't realize that you are in this too. Everybody always says "infertility is a couple's problem" - then BOTH people should be in it!
> 
> I think I have a different opinion than Soili (no offense either) - I think the process should be truly a couple's process. Men can't just do what they always do and close themselves off the world and ignore everything. There has to be some sort of openness and communication about it, in the end we are their wives/partners, not some random people on the street. And we are implicated in the whole thing too (in the end WE will have people poking around in our private parts, not the guys).Click to expand...

Thank you for your support. I did try and bring up a donor with him once, and he said we're not there yet. He's the last male of his line and would like to carry it on, despite that he has recently admitted to being bipolar, has been adhd, and deals with high cholesterol (hereditary in his skinny family), and poor eyesight. 

I love him to pieces. I'd just feel better being able to talk things through.

The feedback from all of you has helped me some. I am going to make a concerted effort to not get weepy when I see the couples on tv having babies, or find out my family members are pregnant. I hadn't been realizing how that put pressure on his already down-ness due to having the contributing factor to our infertility.


----------



## BrandyRelax

awifey said:


> Ladies,
> Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

I just wanted to share with you my experience.

We found out in May 2012 about his diagnosis, and only got an appointment with the urologist in November 2012. My hubby doesn't want to read anything much on the topic, and at first, didn't really talk about it much. At the early stages, I just let him work it out, just letting him know that regardless, we're good. I wouldn't trade him for the world, and I made sure he knew it.

As we got closer to the mTESE, we just focused on the surgery and the hope of finding sperm. At this point, we talk about it intermittently, but more about whether donor is really an option for us (which it likely will be), but it depends on the person as to how they deal with it. Sometimes you just need another person to give you another perspective. I know that one thing that helped us was talking to a counsellor at the fertility clinic. She really understood the situation and hit on the key issues and gave us a different perspective and things to think about. For us, it was particularly helpful with respect to donor sperm - I was looking at it as half adoption, but in essence, it's really just a donation from an anonymous person who allows us to be parents, I just happen to share genes, and my hubby won't, but genes don't define who is family.

My suggestion would be to give him time. He may just need some time to get through all the feelings he has that he is blaming himself, and worried that it will lead to you not wanting to be with him anymore, on top of thinking no one would want to be with him because he can't have any biological kids.

It's a really hard diagnosis, and especially since it's not common, it's not well understood, so getting support is hard because it's so rare that many people don't understand it.

I hope your hubby comes around soon, but in the interim, perhaps he just needs some space. For my hubby, it was the doctors saying he needed tests that prompted him to do it, so maybe just wait until your next appointment and get the doctor to require certain tests.


----------



## sdb123

AuCa said:


> Hi sdb123,
> 
> and sorry that you have to join this thread :hugs::hugs:
> Glad that you found a local urologist who can get you guys started (as this process takes forever anyway).
> 
> About the testosterone - I am really not sure about this, but I would think that the testosterone would only affect future sperm production. Sperm production takes months (I think something like 72 days or so), so my thinking is that any sperm that he would have had at the SA would already have been produced 2-3 months earlier. Hope that makes sense. Hence I don't think the zero sperm came from the testosterone. I think the testosterone shuts down sperm production, it does not kill the sperm a guy already has (that's my understanding).
> 
> PS - I guess it depends how many weeks before the SA exactly he took it..do you know?


Thank you. 
Yes, what you're saying seems logical to me too. He took it a couple of weeks before the first SA.
I feel a little bit of relief just to know that we're actually going to have someone to talk to about it.... whether or not he has the answers.


----------



## tulip11

hi everyone

our first appointment with Urologist ill be on 19th April...but today we got another appointment which states as review appointment which ill be on 23rd april and different place...I wanna to know about review appointment is this different from the first one as it states review plus anyone who got review appointment so kindly please share with me what does it really is ? thanks


----------



## AuCa

Hi Tulip,

the review appointment is for you guys to meet the doc to review the test results. So, on your first appointment your doc will likely order some tests. And then they book a 2nd appointment, usually 2 weeks later (which is the 23rd), so your doc can explain the test results and discuss with you.


----------



## tulip11

Thanks Auca. So it means that we are lucky in sense that for second appointment we wont wait for 2 weeks but afer few days we ill have our 2nd one thanks a lot.


----------



## AuCa

And every day something new.....

I am getting more confused every day, while results are coming in. And I wonder if any of you have any insight :wacko:
DH had an ultrasound of his testis yesterday, and turns out that they saw "bilateral heterogeneity pf his testis". His GP called and said that they're suspecting infection in the past, in other words mumps??? DH has no idea if he had it or not...

He also re-did his hormones, and they came back totally different this time around (again!). Before, his prolactin, FSH and LH were normal, testosterone slightly low. This time around his prolactin is too high, so is his LH, but FSH and testosterone are normal :wacko::wacko::wacko: GP said to re-test prolactin in 6 weeks. I don't get it.


----------



## MrsG30

Hi ladies
Wow how much have I missed. My Dh has asked me if we can not talk about it until out next app as its making him ill.
We had a heart to heart and he said "you should just leave me" "im useless, my bosy is useless" "would you have married me if you had known this" " i thinnk about it every hour of every day" "ive let you down"
My heart was breaking for him. All i can do is constantly reassure him, i love you, im not going anywhere, were in this together etc.
Ive decided to respect his wishes and not talk about it unless soething cmes up as weve talked and talked and we know what routes we are both willing to take.
when ive sat and thought abut it myself, it must be awful for him, its like questioning there manhood/purpose, And im going to do everything in my power not to let him think like that.

Hope this helps some of you xxx


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## Verity Belle

:hugs: I got that question from my hubby too, would i still married him if we had known this before, all you can do is support them and reassure them that they are exactly the same person you fell in love with. Hope your ok xx


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## Hopeful Cat

hi ladies, i got that question from my husband and just recently he said he doesnt want to have sex because he feels inadequate and small. i wish he had somebody to talk to but none of our friends have been there for us. we have a meeting with the specialist on next monday and im hoping we can get referred to a phsych to talk to. this infertility can. really take its toll.
i really wish infeertility wasnt such a silent and taboo subject


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## MrsG30

Ive had that too- i hate thinking he is thinking like that- if that makes sence!

our FS asked us if we wanted to see someone to talk and he replied" i have my wife, i can talk to her"
Sometimes i wish he would speak to someone other than me :hugs:


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## AuCa

Yeah, it's really sad. Mine just told me on the weekend that he's thinking about opening up about it to his brother or one of his friends. He's having a really tough time deciding who he can trust 100% though. Just talking to us as wives/partners can't just be enough. I've also brought up the idea of counseling, but I don't think he's ready for it (yet).

Do you guys maybe have an infertility support group around your area? We have one here who meets once/month, and I'm now on their e-mail list. DH seemed quite interested in maybe going to one of their meetings. Just thinking it might be something for you ladies too....


----------



## MrsG30

im not sure to be honest love.
and im not sure he wants to talk about it at all- if i need/want to say anything i start by "i need to say this" and then he listens because if i jut bring it up i see the look of horror on his face.
we have actually told a few ppl. both sets of parents know, his brother and wife ( as he is going to be our donor if need be) and my 2 best friends.
hes tends to speak about it with my mum but other than that is clams up:hugs:


----------



## raelynn

Ladies, just wanted to let you know that having someone to talk to about this really helped my hubby. He randomly mentioned something about it to a couple in our neighborhood who had gone through fertility treatments and it turns out they were in the exact same situation as us and have a baby by donor sperm. Just finding out that he wasn't alone in this made all the difference for hubby.


----------



## BumpHopes

Hi everyone!

Trying to catch up on the thread n I've missed so much!

Update for me I'm on the ivf waiting list and will be going ahead with donor sperm for I've in [email protected]/Feb next year. We had our counselling session today which went really well. We are going to be bringing our wedding forward to November this year cause I don't want to wait any longer.

How is everyone?


----------



## Stinas

Hi everyone! 

Huge update for me.....
IVF #2(feels like #3 if you include the Frozen I had)....was a success! I will find out next week if its twins....doc thinks there is a good possibility because my beta was pretty high(651). 
We used DH's frozen sperm from his TESE in July.


----------



## awifey

Stinas said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Huge update for me.....
> IVF #2(feels like #3 if you include the Frozen I had)....was a success! I will find out next week if its twins....doc thinks there is a good possibility because my beta was pretty high(651).
> We used DH's frozen sperm from his TESE in July.

Congrats!!!


----------



## Hopeful Cat

congratulations Stinas!!


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## raelynn

Congrats Stinas!!


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## tigerlily1975

Huuuge congrats, Stinas! :happydance:

:hugs:

C xx


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## Verity Belle

Congratulations,
Have my next appointment on monday to discuss hubby sa and blood test results, nervous and excited now, need to make a list of questions any ideas? X


----------



## dippycat

Hi.
I am wondering if any of you lovely ladies have any experience of what myself and DH are going through at the moment. 
We had been TTC for around 18 months before visiting clinic to look at IVF or IUI in November last year. Decided to do IUI, but on my way to the clinic they called to say there was no sperm at all in DHs sample. The doctor told me briefly about blood tests and TESE but said adoption would be easier!
We decided to go for the blood tests option and got the results back this week that he has very low testosterone. FSH was high, but LH was normal. They have put him on hcg shots twice a week plus DHEA, CoQ10 and l'argenine and he has to go and visit a specialist doctor on Saturday to discuss TESE I think. 
Has anyone had any positive effects using hcg to raise testosterone? I am really not keen on him undergoing TESE as it sounds horrific. What chance is there of me falling pregnant naturally??!
I am 42 and he is 44 in a couple of months so I am not sure how successful ICSI would be under normal circumstances and whether it would be worth the huge cost for both the procedures.


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Verity Belle: good luck with the appointment! I always regretted not asking what I could be doing in the meantime - if there were any vitamins or anything worth looking into. Our male fertility specialist did a physical exam and then scheduled a fine needle aspiration in order to get more info and see if any sperm could be found. There are soo many different possibilities and I felt i wouldn't be able to prepare until I got more info. In my next appointment i'm going to try and get an idea of timeframes and costs. Fingers crossed for you that it's good news!

DippyCat: Sorry to hear about your diagnosis :hugs: I don't have any experience with any male fertility drugs but we are looking towards mTESE instead of TESE to reduce risks and increase potential of finding sperm. Decision to go through with these invasive procedures and IVF is completely personal and it has to be right for you and your situation. Maybe after talking with the specialists you'll have a better feeling one way or the other?


----------



## Stinas

Dippy - Im sorry you got the azoo news. Whoever told you adoption would be easier should be smacked in the face! 
TESE is kind of a rough procedure, but recovery is a couple weeks. It looks super gross, but 100% worth it. I am now newly pregnant because of a TESE. 
My situation was a bit different....my dh's levels were are normal, which made doc believe it was a blockage somewhere. We did TESE in July, first round of IVF in Aug which was a BFN, we did a frozen round of IVF in Oct, which was a BFN, third time was a charm this month! 
So it IS possible.......it just takes time. Azoo is a waiting game. 
The chances of you falling pregnant naturally, pretty slim unless his SA changes. Its nice to hope and dream, but unfortunately for us azoo ladies, that does not happen too often. 

Im sure some of the other ladies have more input on the meds!


----------



## AuCa

Congrats again Stinas :happydance::happydance:

Dippycat - I'm very sorry you have to go through this :hugs::hugs:
I second Stinas re chances of becoming pregnant naturally. Realistically, it would be a miracle (unless something changes in his count, like Stinas said). You need millions of sperm for even an IUI, and many many millions to conceive naturally.
I'd say your DH needs some more tests ordered before even doing the mTESE - eg genetic testing (as these can determine to some degree what the chances of finding sperm are). But I'm assuming your specialist will order these.
The HCG might raise the testosterone, but that doesn't necessarily mean that his sperm count will go higher. I'm going to be straight with you - DH's urologist also mentioned that he could try HCG or clomid, and that it might improve his counts slightly. But he also said that very likely (with a 90% chance or so) it won't improve it enough to circumvent IVF. But I'd say - give it a shot and see, it won't hurt as you had a zero count anyway.
Either way, I wish you all the best, and keep us updated!

VerityBelle - exciting that you got your appointment on Monday! :thumbup:
I'm not sure if you really need a list of questions at the point in time (but I think there is one on page 1 of this thread). I can't recall exactly what tests your DH had done already, but I'm assuming the specialist will just order an array of more testing (genetics, imaging etc).

AFM - DH had his ICSI prep (expensive!!!) today to figure out if there is enough sperm in DH's sample to go ahead with IVF-ICSI, or if he needs to get an mTESE done. I'm really nervous about it :wacko:. Should know the results by mid next week.


----------



## Stinas

AuCa - Thank you! Good luck!!


----------



## wifeyw

I haven't been on this thread from the begining, but i just wanted to let all you girls know that it is possible. My husband has azoospermia. he went through a tese which he found not so bad as he had worked himself up so thats a good thing but we have done our first ICSI back in feb and we are now 9 weeks pregnant with twins. We are been through the dark times and there is light at the end of the tunnel when we think back to how we felt back then what a difference a year makes. Never give up hope and it's ok to feel like you have lost someone when you get the news but as times goes on the more answers you get the better it becomes. These forms are life savers. Sending positivity your ways and good luck with all your journeys xx


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## tulip11

Congrats Stinas and wifeyw. Best of luck to rest of girls..our first appointment with urologist will be on 19th April.


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## tulip11

I have seen that in our cases mostly pregnancies ended up wih twins.and I noticed them as girl and boy.


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## Verity Belle

Good luck with your appointment x


----------



## Stinas

Wifey - Congrats!!! What were your beta numbers?? I will find out monday if its two in here!


----------



## MrsG30

Wifey & Stinas thats excellant news- your give the rest of us playing the game hope.

Verity-excited for your appointment- update us soon as you can???

Dippy- sorry to see you here but hopefully we will all be able to help you all along the way, Our next app is the 9th May with urology and hope to find out more about the likely hood of any sperm being found. The % will have to be high for us to go through this, we will be using donor if we dont think we can cope with any more knocks.

Auca- thats so exciting your well on the way to giving it your best shot.

hi to all the other girls here xx

AFM: our next app is 9th May- I Called our clinic today to ask if we could be added to the donor list as a back up and also if we could get the roll rolling for our own "donor" so least after hubby has finished all his tests if its another blow we have our back up sprm in place. Thry said they will call me me back Monday with an answer??!? Hopefully we will be allowed to do this

have a good weeeknd girls xxx


----------



## BrandyRelax

Stinas - Congratulations!!! It's so encouraging!

AFM - just wanted to drop in with a quick update.
Saw the Urologist yesterday, and despite the FS thinking there is no hope, the urologist feels that if we do a fresh cycle, with a second mTESE, they'll find sperm that can be used. He put my hubby on HCG shots 3000 IU/3 times per week. Hopefully that does something and improves his odds of finding sperm that are alive and healthy (previous mTESE the sperm were likely not usable for IVF). They still want him to come in for check-ups and do some more SA's just along the way, just in case.
We came to the decision that we would be okay with a donor back-up, so we've already picked out a donor. It became easier to choose a donor when the councillor said to us that we should pick a donor which would fit in at a family gathering... and that made it a lot easier, because then I wasn't trying to find someone who looked like my hubby.
The surgery date is set for August 6th. And the waiting begins again.


----------



## MrsG30

having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"

im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:


----------



## Jojo27

MrsG30 said:


> having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"
> 
> im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:

MrsG stay positive. I found this so so hard to do especially after husband had mtese and we were waiting for the results, you will get through whatever is thrown your way x x


----------



## MrsG30

Sinking today hun. Really feeling it.
I bet you are too- have they gave you any indiciation of what they will/wont find? xx


Jojo27 said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"
> 
> im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:
> 
> MrsG stay positive. I found this so so hard to do especially after husband had mtese and we were waiting for the results, you will get through whatever is thrown your way x xClick to expand...


----------



## Jojo27

MrsG30 said:


> Sinking today hun. Really feeling it.
> I bet you are too- have they gave you any indiciation of what they will/wont find? xx
> 
> 
> Jojo27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"
> 
> im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:
> 
> MrsG stay positive. I found this so so hard to do especially after husband had mtese and we were waiting for the results, you will get through whatever is thrown your way x xClick to expand...Click to expand...

We had bad news but received it back in feb. not to worry you but we were told 80% chance of finding sperm, but it didn't turn out that way. We are now going the donor route. Have our councilling session this week x


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"
> 
> im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:

:hugs::hugs::hugs:
I know, it is SOOOO tough to wait for all these appointments, tests etc. I don't even know if using donor sperm is any quicker than going through mTESE. Did you hear back from the clinic yet?

I'm also extremely stressed right now over DH's results (of his ICSI prep). I really hope we'll find out if he needs to do mTESE tomorrow. I'm so stressed that I just want to crawl into a hole and wait, don't want to talk to anybody, because I just don't have the nerves for it. :wacko:


----------



## MrsG30

ah i didnt realise you were using Ds? you in the UK or overseas? thats worrys me i would hate to think 80% an then it be a no go, I dont know if my hubby could take that??

How is your Hubby? xxxxx


Jojo27 said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Sinking today hun. Really feeling it.
> I bet you are too- have they gave you any indiciation of what they will/wont find? xx
> 
> 
> Jojo27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"
> 
> im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:
> 
> MrsG stay positive. I found this so so hard to do especially after husband had mtese and we were waiting for the results, you will get through whatever is thrown your way x xClick to expand...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We had bad news but received it back in feb. not to worry you but we were told 80% chance of finding sperm, but it didn't turn out that way. We are now going the donor route. Have our councilling session this week xClick to expand...




AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> having a meltdown me- its been weeks since our last appointment and urology app isnt till 9th may. worried sick about the urologist will say/do- hubby just keeps saying the Dr will have to be pretty sure he will find sperm for us to go with it as if not we can go straight to donor- i think he is just thinking- "just get us pregnant by the quickest method possible"
> 
> im sitting here trailing through "xytex" and then keep thinking i dont know why im doing this. :cry:
> 
> :hugs::hugs::hugs:
> I know, it is SOOOO tough to wait for all these appointments, tests etc. I don't even know if using donor sperm is any quicker than going through mTESE. Did you hear back from the clinic yet?
> 
> I'm also extremely stressed right now over DH's results (of his ICSI prep). I really hope we'll find out if he needs to do mTESE tomorrow. I'm so stressed that I just want to crawl into a hole and wait, don't want to talk to anybody, because I just don't have the nerves for it. :wacko:Click to expand...



Auca
I know when im listening to you's i feel selfish as i know your all going through it too. :hugs::hugs: Talk to me- I will listen hun :):hugs:
clinic said they would ring today but nothing as yet- im at work now but will call tomorrow and chase them up.
DS will only be quicker as its there ready and waiting, if my hubby decides to have the tests there is a 9 month wait?!?!?!?!


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> Auca
> I know when im listening to you's i feel selfish as i know your all going through it too. :hugs::hugs: Talk to me- I will listen hun :):hugs:
> clinic said they would ring today but nothing as yet- im at work now but will call tomorrow and chase them up.
> DS will only be quicker as its there ready and waiting, if my hubby decides to have the tests there is a 9 month wait?!?!?!?!

You are not selfish at all! We're all on the same (or similar) path, which makes this thread so great, because we understand each other :hugs:

9 months, omg!!?!! That's another reason I'm so nervous about this result. If DH needs mTESE I also think it will add months of waiting again for us. Not sure if I could take it, but I guess I would have to. We're not quite ready for donor sperm at this point.


----------



## MrsG30

wish you ladies lives within "im going for a cuppa" distance haha
I know 9 longg long months! scares the shit out of me however i dont want my hubby to think id rather use DS than wait 9 months cos obviously I would not, but he says heisnt prepared to wait that long un less the % of finding anything is high?!?!? it worries me if he is not exhausting his own chnaces before moving onto DS but i dont think he can take any more knocks I understand that.

how is your Hubby?

what exactly are you waiting on? i dont eaxactly understand these tese/pesa/mtest procedures but i guess the teste is last resort?
xxxxx:hugs:


AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Auca
> I know when im listening to you's i feel selfish as i know your all going through it too. :hugs::hugs: Talk to me- I will listen hun :):hugs:
> clinic said they would ring today but nothing as yet- im at work now but will call tomorrow and chase them up.
> DS will only be quicker as its there ready and waiting, if my hubby decides to have the tests there is a 9 month wait?!?!?!?!
> 
> You are not selfish at all! We're all on the same (or similar) path, which makes this thread so great, because we understand each other :hugs:
> 
> 9 months, omg!!?!! That's another reason I'm so nervous about this result. If DH needs mTESE I also think it will add months of waiting again for us. Not sure if I could take it, but I guess I would have to. We're not quite ready for donor sperm at this point.Click to expand...


----------



## Jojo27

MrsG I am in the uk, how about you. DH is fine about it, what will be will be, there is nothing we can do to change the situation so we just need to get on with it. We was told the wait for the retrieval was over 12 months, but DH reached the top of the list within 6 months, so that wasn't too bad x


----------



## Mikihob

Hi Step Mummy. I am in the same boat as you-exactly. I am 25 and my husband is 42. He has two daughters, 17 and 19. I got off the pill two months before the wedding so that we would be able to start right away (he joked that he wasn't getting any younger. lol). We went to the doctor right away because I have PCOS. After taking Clomid for six months we tested him. Three SA have come back with zero sperm. Our hearts broke, we couldn't believe it. He has two kids, what?? We are now waiting until May 2013 for a final SA before we move into a testicular biopsy/aspiration. We are scared because the biopsy's can be painful and a hard recovery, my husband is not thrilled with the idea. We have decided that if this SA comes back with zero despite the vitamins we have implemented we would fly to Seattle and see about biopsy's and aspirations so that they can freeze any sperm they may find for IVF. I have found that vitamins for sperm boosting are folic acid, L-Arginine, zinc, vitamin E and vitamin B-12. My husband is on all of these, including his normal vitamin C and D. It's a lot each day but we are hoping it makes the difference next month. Each change he makes takes three months to impact his sperm. Blah. If he has no sperm we have decided that donor sperm would be our next choice. I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## MrsG30

Jojo27 said:


> MrsG I am in the uk, how about you. DH is fine about it, what will be will be, there is nothing we can do to change the situation so we just need to get on with it. We was told the wait for the retrieval was over 12 months, but DH reached the top of the list within 6 months, so that wasn't too bad x

yeah i in the UK,Newcaste. ah thats good to know- what stage your at now?
6 months is not so bad- im fearful of what happened to you will happen to us, and i know that sounds awful- i just wonder how many more knocks poor hubby can take xxx


----------



## Verity Belle

Quick update for you as we had an appointment today, they found some sperm :D so we have been referred for icsi and now we wait again but feeling quite happy atm xx


----------



## Mikihob

Verity Belle said:


> Quick update for you as we had an appointment today, they found some sperm :D so we have been referred for icsi and now we wait again but feeling quite happy atm xx

Awesome!! That is great news!! :hugs:


----------



## rdleela

Verity Belle said:


> Quick update for you as we had an appointment today, they found some sperm :D so we have been referred for icsi and now we wait again but feeling quite happy atm xx

Awesome news!!!!


----------



## AuCa

Verity Belle said:


> Quick update for you as we had an appointment today, they found some sperm :D so we have been referred for icsi and now we wait again but feeling quite happy atm xx


:thumbup: Great news! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
Do you have an idea how long your wait will be?


----------



## Stinas

Verity Belle said:


> Quick update for you as we had an appointment today, they found some sperm :D so we have been referred for icsi and now we wait again but feeling quite happy atm xx

Amazing news!!!!!


----------



## deafgal01

Wonderful news for you Verity!


----------



## MrsG30

big :happydance:from me again hun :))


----------



## MrsMo

Hi, I'm new here, just been doing some online research and found this forum and been reading some of your stories. We had our SSR (MESA/TESE) today. Nothing found in MESA so now waiting to find out tomorrow if there's anything at all from TESE. Very worried and although my husband was starting to realise I need to talk to my close friends to get through this (he deals with things very differently and doesn't like people knowing so much detail about us), he now doesn't want me to tell them any more in case it is bad news. Basically if we do decide to go with donor sperm he doesn't want anyone to know about it. I figured a forum might be the next best thing to being able to talk to my 'real life' friends and I can stay anonymous. 

I can understand why he wouldn't want people to know but I don't think he realises (despite me telling him) that I will be devastated too even if we go on to use donors. I'd find it very difficult to cope with all of this without having the support of my friends since my Mum lives abroad. I've tried explaining that they are not judging him and they just care about us and what happens and helping me through it, I think it's hard for him to see as he doesn't need to talk about things the way I do.

I'm really scared there won't be any sperm since they have found nothing so far. We have no reason for there not to be but also, no blockages found and apparently everything looked normal during the procedure today but they can't tell us if they've found anything in the tissue yet. Does anyone know what the chances are? Can anyone give me any insight into deciding on donor sperm, he won't discuss it until we have to but I can't stop thinking about all the what ifs!

A bit of our background (I'm still getting used to all the forum abbreviations, sorry)...
We're both 31, been together 6.5 yrs, married for 21m, TTC for 20 months. Diagnosed with azoospermia in November, couldn't wait the 44 weeks we were told it would be just to get seen by a urologist to get any answers past the SA so have gone private. All bloods normal on his side, normal size testicles, no blockage felt (or seen in op today). 
My ov assessment was normal on one side, possibly not on the other (maybe due to ovulating at time of scan - lots of large follicles, no small ones visible) but my AMH was only 2.8! We know this has slashed the odds of ICSI working even if we do find sperm as we might not get many, if any, eggs! I'm starting to feel like we're never going to get good news.


----------



## MrsG30

Hi MrsMo

Didnt want to read and run but your actually a little further ahead than we are. We had the azoo news in feb and we see the urologist on 9th may.My hubby has adult mumps so his is NOA too, im not hopeful from what we've been told so far about finding any sperm, however the other girls will come along to reassure you it and does/and can happen.
We have already dealt with the "donor" issue and have decided what will be will be however its an awful situation to be in and i understand totally how you feel. Im currently doing everything possible to make my hubby feel "not as bad" about things
I cant comment on on amh levels as im not even sure ive had mine done. I do however suffer from PCOS and generally our levels are too high.

Im with you on the "talking" ive told my 2 best friends and im so pleased i did, i dont think i could cope with this alone.

so sorry to find you here but we will all help as much we can xxxx:hugs:


MrsMo said:


> Hi, I'm new here, just been doing some online research and found this forum and been reading some of your stories. We had our SSR (MESA/TESE) today. Nothing found in MESA so now waiting to find out tomorrow if there's anything at all from TESE. Very worried and although my husband was starting to realise I need to talk to my close friends to get through this (he deals with things very differently and doesn't like people knowing so much detail about us), he now doesn't want me to tell them any more in case it is bad news. Basically if we do decide to go with donor sperm he doesn't want anyone to know about it. I figured a forum might be the next best thing to being able to talk to my 'real life' friends and I can stay anonymous.
> 
> I can understand why he wouldn't want people to know but I don't think he realises (despite me telling him) that I will be devastated too even if we go on to use donors. I'd find it very difficult to cope with all of this without having the support of my friends since my Mum lives abroad. I've tried explaining that they are not judging him and they just care about us and what happens and helping me through it, I think it's hard for him to see as he doesn't need to talk about things the way I do.
> 
> I'm really scared there won't be any sperm since they have found nothing so far. We have no reason for there not to be but also, no blockages found and apparently everything looked normal during the procedure today but they can't tell us if they've found anything in the tissue yet. Does anyone know what the chances are? Can anyone give me any insight into deciding on donor sperm, he won't discuss it until we have to but I can't stop thinking about all the what ifs!
> 
> A bit of our background (I'm still getting used to all the forum abbreviations, sorry)...
> We're both 31, been together 6.5 yrs, married for 21m, TTC for 20 months. Diagnosed with azoospermia in November, couldn't wait the 44 weeks we were told it would be just to get seen by a urologist to get any answers past the SA so have gone private. All bloods normal on his side, normal size testicles, no blockage felt (or seen in op today).
> My ov assessment was normal on one side, possibly not on the other (maybe due to ovulating at time of scan - lots of large follicles, no small ones visible) but my AMH was only 2.8! We know this has slashed the odds of ICSI working even if we do find sperm as we might not get many, if any, eggs! I'm starting to feel like we're never going to get good news.


----------



## AuCa

Hi MrsMo :hugs:
I can very much relate to the whole "DH doesn't want people to know anything" issue. Exact same situation here. I've made some really good "virtual friends" online though :) Men really do cope differently than women, and I can totally understand your desire to talk about it, as I'm the same way. I'm actually going to join an infertility support group here, maybe that's an option for you too?

One question I had reading through your story - did they ever run all the genetic testing? - cystic fibrosis, Y chromosome microdeletions, karyotype?
The reason I'm asking is that this can give you an idea about the chance you can expect them to find anything in a TESE.
And what about ultrasounds? Eg, my DH also has mostly normal hormones, no blockages, no genetic issues, but they found on his ultrasound that he probably had an infection in his childhood causing the whole crap.


----------



## MrsMo

Thanks Mrs G and AuCa, really appreciate the replies! To answer your questions first, yes we had all those blood tests done, nothing abnormal found. No ultrasound has been done but there's nothing in his history to explain lack of sperm. 

We talked more last night and my husband explained why he was suddenly more concerned about me sharing details with friends again, I think it actually started to hit home that maybe there wouldn't be any sperm after the negative MESA and his concern is that people who we'll be around if we go ahead and have a baby with donor sperm might be awkward. His example was if one of them says oh he's got your eyes and then remembers oh he can't then it will be awkward for them and us. I can understand this and he has since mentioned he doesn't feel like less of a man as a result of this but if people knew about it he might as he'd be worrying about what they'd think of him. 

Anyway, to update you - we got the call from the surgeon today about the TESE, there was no sperm and no germ cells. We're waiting on histo-pathology to confirm it but they think he's got 'Sertoli Only Syndrome' Has anyone heard of this? It's apparently really rare and everything else is normal but as there are only sertoli cells and no germ cells there are no sperm produced. According to one resource online it says the FSH would be raised which it wasn't so we don't understand it entirely but regardless, there's no sperm and never will be.

We're now talking about donor sperm and husband seems to be pretty much decided we should do it which surprised me. He seems to have accepted it already and is coping really well and actually talking about this all much more than he has been. We're obviously both disappointed but weirdly this is the first time I haven't cried at bad news. 

We've both said we're finding this easier, possibly because we finally know and can move on. I wasn't coping well with the not knowing and waiting to find out. At least now we can look at other options properly as we have no other choice. 

My close friends who knew about the procedure all now think it went well as he doesn't want anyone to know if we use donor sperm so I told them all was fine and a huge relief which is kind of true. I'm just grateful he's realised we need to tell our parents about the sperm. They know now and have all been very supportive. It obviously wouldn't be our first choice to have a baby this way, we just have no option any more and I think we'd prefer it to adoption as we'd still hopefully get to experience pregnancy like I've always imagined. 

The next thing is just to find out more information about donor sperm so we can decide if we do want to proceed with that.


----------



## AuCa

MrsMo said:


> Thanks Mrs G and AuCa, really appreciate the replies! To answer your questions first, yes we had all those blood tests done, nothing abnormal found. No ultrasound has been done but there's nothing in his history to explain lack of sperm.

:hugs::hugs:Well, we didn't have anything in our history that would've indicated such an issue either, and our RE didn't want to order the u/s, but turns out that for us the u/s held the answer anyway (we got DH's family doc to order it). In our case it showed signs of suspected orchitis in childhood. Why or how this was never discovered/treated is a mystery to me/us.....
But reading through your post I see that you already got your diagnosis anyway.

I've heard of SCO syndrome, but don't know much about it personally. I'm very sorry that you received such bad news :hugs: But like you said, at least now you have an answer and you can make decisions.
I'm sure it's very tough to make the donor sperm decision, and I totally understand that your DH doesn't want your friends to know about it. It's great to hear that the two of you are on the same page about it :thumbup:


----------



## tulip11

Hi day after tomorrow means on friday will be our first appointment with urologist idk what they ill do ? Those who had already gone through first appointment so my question is that did they do certain tests, or checkups directly or just had some consultation ? Then our review appointment ill be on 23rd april tuesday.


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## MrsMo

tulip11 said:


> Hi day after tomorrow means on friday will be our first appointment with urologist idk what they ill do ? Those who had already gone through first appointment so my question is that did they do certain tests, or checkups directly or just had some consultation ? Then our review appointment ill be on 23rd april tuesday.

Hi tulip, at our first appointment with the urologist he just examined my husband and explained a lot of things about what could be wrong and what we can do about them. Then arranged blood tests. After that we just had to wait for results before we progressed to MESA/TESE. We never got an US but apparently they are sometimes arranged too. Good luck on Friday, it helped me get a lot of questions answered!


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## tulip11

Thanks MrsMo....when did you had review appointment after your first appointment ? My prayers are with you and all other who are going through this phase may we all have a successful end ...all the best hun ...stay blessed .:):)


----------



## AuCa

Good luck for your appointment Tulip! :hugs:
We saw a fertility specialist right away, and I'm not sure if they do things differently, but he ordered blood tests (including genetic tests) and a repeat semen analysis at the first appointment. The ultrasounds only got ordered later in our case, but I think it probably depends on the doc.


----------



## MrsG30

MrsMo
you seem more positive today and i guess it because you know one way or the other. I know its shitty news but least you can deal with it together and move on
y hubby had mumps as an adult which they think has caused huge trauma to the production of sperm. Will know ore come 9th May.
I am however not hopeful and am already deciding on a donor. (were debating if to use my Brother in law or Unknown) Lots of thinking and talking to do.
My own views are if we use BIL the more ppl know. If we go unknown we can just tell ppl the SSR was a success and we have used frozen sperm from my Hubby.
Pleased your hubby is coming round too the idea- i guess its the only way other than adoption we have.
Kepp us posted.

Auca- How are you hun? where you up too in the process?

Tulip- Good Luck for your app.

Afm- waiting game :(

Lots of Love xxx


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Hi MrsMo,

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. My husband has Sertoli-Cell Only as well which is a real kicker! His FSH was raised. We were diagnosed after a minimally invasive fine needle aspiration but our doctor still wants to try mTESE as improvements in the technique apparently mean there is still a chance of finding sperm. I'm a little skeptic to be honest but since they gave us 20% chance of finding sperm we'll most probably go ahead with it. It's unlikely that they will find many sperm so it'll be done in sync with an IVF cycle so we can use fresh eggs and sperm.

It took me a while to get my dh to discuss the donor sperm option. I found a website that's called the Donor Conception Network and he was able to read stories written by the resulting children, parents and donors. He is now fully on board with that being our backup if we don't find sperm during our mTESE. At our clinic you also have to go to a mandatory counseling session if you are about to use donor sperm or eggs and this may help you.

xx


----------



## Mikihob

Hi ladies.

For those who decide to go the donor sperm route, there is a cryobank based out of Seattle, Fairfax Cryobank, and they have facial recognition match options. You can upload a pic of your husband and they can compare the facial features in your husbands pic and the pics of all available donors and choose the ones that match. You can do the upload and search right on your computer at home. The results come back with a low, medium or high match. 

This makes the donor sperm route a little easier because the child can still have facial features similar to your husband. My hubby was a little less unsure and uncomfortable about the donor sperm route because of this. 

Good luck to you all with the testing. My hubby will be testing next month too. 

Baby Dust
:dust:


----------



## MrsMo

tulip11 said:


> Thanks MrsMo....when did you had review appointment after your first appointment ? My prayers are with you and all other who are going through this phase may we all have a successful end ...all the best hun ...stay blessed .:):)

We didn't have a review appointment, we got sent the blood results and he just asked in the letter if we wanted to progress to MESA/TESE to contact his secretary to arrange it which is what we did. (He had already explained about the procedure at the first appointment.)


----------



## MrsMo

Hopeful Cat said:


> Hi MrsMo,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. My husband has Sertoli-Cell Only as well which is a real kicker! His FSH was raised. We were diagnosed after a minimally invasive fine needle aspiration but our doctor still wants to try mTESE as improvements in the technique apparently mean there is still a chance of finding sperm. I'm a little skeptic to be honest but since they gave us 20% chance of finding sperm we'll most probably go ahead with it. It's unlikely that they will find many sperm so it'll be done in sync with an IVF cycle so we can use fresh eggs and sperm.
> 
> It took me a while to get my dh to discuss the donor sperm option. I found a website that's called the Donor Conception Network and he was able to read stories written by the resulting children, parents and donors. He is now fully on board with that being our backup if we don't find sperm during our mTESE. At our clinic you also have to go to a mandatory counseling session if you are about to use donor sperm or eggs and this may help you.
> 
> xx

Thanks for your replies Mikihob and Hopeful Cat. We've already been told the sperm bank which will give us the best choice here is the European Sperm Bank but that's interesting about the facial recognition. Even looking on the European site, I was amazed and pleased about how much information you can actually find out about donors.

I have an appointment with the gynaecologist today (was booked hoping it would be to sort out the IVF side of things using DH sperm and sort out all the drugs I'll need due to my low AMH) so I will ask for more info about donor sperm, how we go about it and whether they recommend/insist on counselling. Hopefully should have a lot more information this afternoon! 

I am so glad I found this forum! Thank you everyone for the support!! :hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

Good luck to all of you ladies!

Yes, I noticed every dr do things differently even if they are in the same country sometimes. :shrug: I think the diagnosis becomes easier to deal with over time, as we get more answers or get closer to a solution to getting our forever babies. I still need to undergo blood screening before I do the iui procedure with donor sperm, about 2 more cycles before I officially start that.


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## MrsG30

hi Hopeful

this really helped me as we have our first app with urologist on 9th may and wasn't sure what to expect.
My hubby has told me quite straightly unless we get a high of them finding sperm we are going straight to donor!!! Dont know if he will still feel like that after our app.



Hopeful Cat said:


> Hi MrsMo,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. My husband has Sertoli-Cell Only as well which is a real kicker! His FSH was raised. We were diagnosed after a minimally invasive fine needle aspiration but our doctor still wants to try mTESE as improvements in the technique apparently mean there is still a chance of finding sperm. I'm a little skeptic to be honest but since they gave us 20% chance of finding sperm we'll most probably go ahead with it. It's unlikely that they will find many sperm so it'll be done in sync with an IVF cycle so we can use fresh eggs and sperm.
> 
> It took me a while to get my dh to discuss the donor sperm option. I found a website that's called the Donor Conception Network and he was able to read stories written by the resulting children, parents and donors. He is now fully on board with that being our backup if we don't find sperm during our mTESE. At our clinic you also have to go to a mandatory counseling session if you are about to use donor sperm or eggs and this may help you.
> 
> xx


----------



## MrsMo

Mrs G30, I know everyone reacts differently to procedures and anaesthetics but my husband had no pain and said he actually felt like he hadn't had anything done after the TESE. He was off work for just one day after the procedure and would have gone back that day if it wasn't for the GA meaning he couldn't drive yet. His stitches are dissolvable and his only complaint after the surgery was having a sore back from lying so flat. He was only in theatre for about 45 minutes. He was surprisingly alert straight away and wanted to leave to go and have lunch very soon afterwards! Just some more information for your DH in case he does change his mind. :hugs:



MrsG30 said:


> hi Hopeful
> 
> this really helped me as we have our first app with urologist on 9th may and wasn't sure what to expect.
> My hubby has told me quite straightly unless we get a high of them finding sperm we are going straight to donor!!! Dont know if he will still feel like that after our app.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopeful Cat said:
> 
> 
> Hi MrsMo,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. My husband has Sertoli-Cell Only as well which is a real kicker! His FSH was raised. We were diagnosed after a minimally invasive fine needle aspiration but our doctor still wants to try mTESE as improvements in the technique apparently mean there is still a chance of finding sperm. I'm a little skeptic to be honest but since they gave us 20% chance of finding sperm we'll most probably go ahead with it. It's unlikely that they will find many sperm so it'll be done in sync with an IVF cycle so we can use fresh eggs and sperm.
> 
> It took me a while to get my dh to discuss the donor sperm option. I found a website that's called the Donor Conception Network and he was able to read stories written by the resulting children, parents and donors. He is now fully on board with that being our backup if we don't find sperm during our mTESE. At our clinic you also have to go to a mandatory counseling session if you are about to use donor sperm or eggs and this may help you.
> 
> xxClick to expand...


----------



## MrsG30

MrsMo
where in the Uk are you? where Newcastle.

To be honest i don't think hes frightened or anything like that, Im really worried if he can take anymore knocks and I don't know how high the % of chance would have to for him to think it was worth it. Its such a mess.
After the inital fine needle, will they then decide if the tese is needed? im Even confused as too what tests are and will be needed. Doesnt help my hubby works away from home too.

What your next plans? xxxx:hugs:


MrsMo said:


> Mrs G30, I know everyone reacts differently to procedures and anaesthetics but my husband had no pain and said he actually felt like he hadn't had anything done after the TESE. He was off work for just one day after the procedure and would have gone back that day if it wasn't for the GA meaning he couldn't drive yet. His stitches are dissolvable and his only complaint after the surgery was having a sore back from lying so flat. He was only in theatre for about 45 minutes. He was surprisingly alert straight away and wanted to leave to go and have lunch very soon afterwards! Just some more information for your DH in case he does change his mind. :hugs:
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> hi Hopeful
> 
> this really helped me as we have our first app with urologist on 9th may and wasn't sure what to expect.
> My hubby has told me quite straightly unless we get a high of them finding sperm we are going straight to donor!!! Dont know if he will still feel like that after our app.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopeful Cat said:
> 
> 
> Hi MrsMo,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. My husband has Sertoli-Cell Only as well which is a real kicker! His FSH was raised. We were diagnosed after a minimally invasive fine needle aspiration but our doctor still wants to try mTESE as improvements in the technique apparently mean there is still a chance of finding sperm. I'm a little skeptic to be honest but since they gave us 20% chance of finding sperm we'll most probably go ahead with it. It's unlikely that they will find many sperm so it'll be done in sync with an IVF cycle so we can use fresh eggs and sperm.
> 
> It took me a while to get my dh to discuss the donor sperm option. I found a website that's called the Donor Conception Network and he was able to read stories written by the resulting children, parents and donors. He is now fully on board with that being our backup if we don't find sperm during our mTESE. At our clinic you also have to go to a mandatory counseling session if you are about to use donor sperm or eggs and this may help you.
> 
> xx
> 
> Click to expand...Click to expand...


----------



## Rainbow123

Hi everyone. I've just been reading your messages and it's really helped me to read some success stories. I am so sorry you are all having to go through this, I know it's rough as my DH and I are going through it too.
We've been TTC now for just over a year. We went to the GP in November as we were concerned that nothing was happening and found out after 2 SA that he was azoospermic. I couldn't believe it but at the same time I'd kinda known there was something not right. DH has been told by the urologist in late Jan that he probably has non-obstructive azoospermia and there's little chance of finding any sperm. We were left feeling completely deflated with no-one to talk to about it, I wish I'd found this thread sooner!
After being referred to the FS in December we FINALLY got an appointment through for May 15th. I'm hoping that they will get the ball rolling and get DH booked in for a biopsy so that we know for certain that there are no sperm, then we're thinking of using a DS.
Anyway, thanks again for all sharing your experiences. It really helps to be able to talk to someone in the same boat, as I've not been able to talk to anyone else about it and it's such a relief to get it all out! 
Wishing you all the best luck in getting your babies! X


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## MrsG30

Rainbow-
your at exactly the same stage as us- our app is the 9th may xxx


Rainbow123 said:


> Hi everyone. I've just been reading your messages and it's really helped me to read some success stories. I am so sorry you are all having to go through this, I know it's rough as my DH and I are going through it too.
> We've been TTC now for just over a year. We went to the GP in November as we were concerned that nothing was happening and found out after 2 SA that he was azoospermic. I couldn't believe it but at the same time I'd kinda known there was something not right. DH has been told by the urologist in late Jan that he probably has non-obstructive azoospermia and there's little chance of finding any sperm. We were left feeling completely deflated with no-one to talk to about it, I wish I'd found this thread sooner!
> After being referred to the FS in December we FINALLY got an appointment through for May 15th. I'm hoping that they will get the ball rolling and get DH booked in for a biopsy so that we know for certain that there are no sperm, then we're thinking of using a DS.
> Anyway, thanks again for all sharing your experiences. It really helps to be able to talk to someone in the same boat, as I've not been able to talk to anyone else about it and it's such a relief to get it all out!
> Wishing you all the best luck in getting your babies! X


----------



## MrsMo

Mrs G, we're in Glasgow. Today went OK, GP wouldn't do blood tests as we've gone private so says he's not allowed. Just means more waiting as can't complete all paperwork until results are back so can't proceed. Appt next week for consents and they've said they'll take my blood then but we can't start the treatment until we have results. We will have to wait for sperm to be delivered now anyway so not a big issue really. Just need to choose some! :wacko:

Rainbow, I wish I'd found this forum earlier too! Even in the last couple of days I've found it a comfort to know I can come here and vent and find out about others' experiences.


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## tulip11

I have a question...Are urologist and FS appointments two different things? Like after urologist appointment and review appointment do they refers person to FS appointment ?


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## MrsMo

Sorry I forgot to answer your question Mrs G - our urologist does the MESA aspiration and the TESE (if MESA doesn't work - the embryologist is there to check it straight away) during the same procedure so does it all under GA. He says you don't really know you won't find anything until you look (unless there is a result in bloods which would mean there's definitely no sperm) so once all usual blood tests/genetic tests done we just scheduled that.


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## MrsMo

tulip11 said:


> I have a question...Are urologist and FS appointments two different things? Like after urologist appointment and review appointment do they refers person to FS appointment ?

Is FS fertility specialist? We saw urologist first, got this done and then had to see gynaecologist to discuss the actual IVF/ICSI side of things (we did that today so also discussed donor sperm and how we go about that).


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## tulip11

Yes fertility specialist


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## BettiS

Hi girls

Just wondering if any of you has heard anything from CM after the death of her husband...been thinking about her a lot and just wondering how things are going.


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## MrsG30

we had to see our GP's for my bloodwork then i had ultrasound etc.
Then hubby did first SA.
azzo result.
Sent to see FS.
referred to urology then back to FS for a treatment plan.

seem likes its different all over the UK never ind overseas.

tulip- i would b e expecting after the urologist has done his/her bit they pass you back to the FS.

MrsMo- Where you getting sperm from? (thats sound awful dont it) ha
Will you get your IVF/ free?

hopefully were all gonna b getting down to it at the same time xxx


----------



## Rainbow123

All the too-ing and fro-ing between specialists takes so bloomin' long doesn't it?! I was hoping that when we have our appointment on the 15th with the FS they might be able to start the tests to see whether they could find any sperm but it sounds like he'll have to go back to the urologist (who said that he was discharging DH as there was nothing else he could do!?). 
I wish we could afford to go private as it seems like with the NHS there is just waiting list after waiting list. We got our pre-appointment letter through saying that we would be given appointments/slips to make more appointments with different departments for certain scans and blood tests for me to have (which I can understand is useful) but it would save a lot of time if they just told me to book scan appointments now so that I have the results when we go and see them on the 15th. ARGH!

MrsMo - how do you go about choosing a sperm donor? Have your clinic been able to advise you on where to look for it? Do you get a catalogue or something? Good luck with choosing it anyway, it must be exciting to know that the other genetic half of your baby will be in those pages!

Have a lovely weekend ladies XXX


----------



## Jojo27

Rainbow123 said:


> All the too-ing and fro-ing between specialists takes so bloomin' long doesn't it?! I was hoping that when we have our appointment on the 15th with the FS they might be able to start the tests to see whether they could find any sperm but it sounds like he'll have to go back to the urologist (who said that he was discharging DH as there was nothing else he could do!?).
> I wish we could afford to go private as it seems like with the NHS there is just waiting list after waiting list. We got our pre-appointment letter through saying that we would be given appointments/slips to make more appointments with different departments for certain scans and blood tests for me to have (which I can understand is useful) but it would save a lot of time if they just told me to book scan appointments now so that I have the results when we go and see them on the 15th. ARGH!
> 
> MrsMo - how do you go about choosing a sperm donor? Have your clinic been able to advise you on where to look for it? Do you get a catalogue or something? Good luck with choosing it anyway, it must be exciting to know that the other genetic half of your baby will be in those pages!
> 
> 
> 
> Have a lovely weekend ladies XXX

Providing you don't use a known donor, your clinic find a suitable match. They tend to match ethnics, eye and hair colour x x


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## tulip11

Hi girls as I have told you guys about our today appointment when we reached there they said that our appointment has been cancelled that would be on coming Tuesday we said that what we received is that review appointment would be on tuesday we were not informed about cancellation of today appointment as what I know there is difference between cancellation and review appointment. ?.now we ill go again on Tuesday ...


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## Stinas

BettiS said:


> Hi girls
> 
> Just wondering if any of you has heard anything from CM after the death of her husband...been thinking about her a lot and just wondering how things are going.

I have been too but have not heard a thing.


----------



## Rainbow123

tulip11 said:


> Hi girls as I have told you guys about our today appointment when we reached there they said that our appointment has been cancelled that would be on coming Tuesday we said that what we received is that review appointment would be on tuesday we were not informed about cancellation of today appointment as what I know there is difference between cancellation and review appointment. ?.now we ill go again on Tuesday ...

That's really crappy Tulip :( It takes a lot of mental preparation before appointments, so for you to get there and be told it was cancelled is totally unfair :( Glad you've got your appointment on Tuesday and hope it goes well :flower: X


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## tulip11

Yes Rainbow123 you are right. We were mentally prepared plus my hubby took day off for this appointment ...but at end I believe that what is best for us that happens.thanks a lot for great support on this forum.I wish you all the very very best may all of our efforts brings out a lovely fruit..


----------



## MrsMo

MrsG30 said:


> we had to see our GP's for my bloodwork then i had ultrasound etc.
> Then hubby did first SA.
> azzo result.
> Sent to see FS.
> referred to urology then back to FS for a treatment plan.
> 
> seem likes its different all over the UK never ind overseas.
> 
> tulip- i would b e expecting after the urologist has done his/her bit they pass you back to the FS.
> 
> MrsMo- Where you getting sperm from? (thats sound awful dont it) ha
> Will you get your IVF/ free?
> 
> hopefully were all gonna b getting down to it at the same time xxx




Rainbow123 said:


> All the too-ing and fro-ing between specialists takes so bloomin' long doesn't it?! I was hoping that when we have our appointment on the 15th with the FS they might be able to start the tests to see whether they could find any sperm but it sounds like he'll have to go back to the urologist (who said that he was discharging DH as there was nothing else he could do!?).
> I wish we could afford to go private as it seems like with the NHS there is just waiting list after waiting list. We got our pre-appointment letter through saying that we would be given appointments/slips to make more appointments with different departments for certain scans and blood tests for me to have (which I can understand is useful) but it would save a lot of time if they just told me to book scan appointments now so that I have the results when we go and see them on the 15th. ARGH!
> 
> MrsMo - how do you go about choosing a sperm donor? Have your clinic been able to advise you on where to look for it? Do you get a catalogue or something? Good luck with choosing it anyway, it must be exciting to know that the other genetic half of your baby will be in those pages!
> 
> Have a lovely weekend ladies XXX


Hi Ladies, our clinic has their own donor scheme but they said they have trouble finding donors in the UK these days since the anonymous option was removed. They said we'll get much more choice from the European Sperm Bank (I tried to link to it but not allowed as I'm new) to try to get the best match to my husband. There is less of a waiting list for it too as you just order from what's available and it arrives within 2 weeks! I think it's based in Norway (I need to have a closer look now we know we need to choose, we're just letting things sink in before rushing into the next stage), I had a quick look before and was surprised by how much information was available. The prices are on there too. 

I got a bit upset yesterday as I remembered telling my friends how excited I was about how cute our kids were likely to be as my husband is so gorgeous (to me) and also has young cousins who are stunning. I know that's totally superficial but it also got me thinking about saying things like "He/she gets that from her father" as this situation might always be at the back of my mind if I say that in the future. All of this assuming the IVF even works as so many things can still go wrong of course! But I'm trying not to think about that, I can only get through this with trying to be positive.

Mrs G, since we've now gone private I don't think we can get our treatment on the NHS but we'd have to wait until Nov 2014 to start treatment anyway and decided since we are lucky enough that we have family who have offered to help us pay, we don't want to wait for many reasons (possibly moving around that time, work, age, my sanity, etc.) so we'll hopefully be starting IVF in May/June.


----------



## Rainbow123

MrsMo said:


> I got a bit upset yesterday as I remembered telling my friends how excited I was about how cute our kids were likely to be as my husband is so gorgeous (to me) and also has young cousins who are stunning. I know that's totally superficial but it also got me thinking about saying things like "He/she gets that from her father" as this situation might always be at the back of my mind if I say that in the future. All of this assuming the IVF even works as so many things can still go wrong of course! But I'm trying not to think about that, I can only get through this with trying to be positive.

I've been thinking a lot about this too. I've been with DH for 12 years now, since we were at school, and I've always said what beautiful children we would have because of his good looks too. I've seen so many of his baby photos, so always imagined our children being like him. He's got 3 brothers, one of them has two babies already, and we all laugh about their 'traits' (including the little ones). It worries me that I'm going to be over thinking things that I say, as I don't want DH to feel uncomfortable or hurt in any way as he's already had so much to deal with. 
But like you say, we have to think positive. We will get our babies and when we do I'm sure all these things that we worry about will wash away. I suppose it's all still 'the unknown', which is what makes it scary, but once it happens we'll probably still be able to see similarities between DH and our babies as it's not just physical characteristics that children have in common with their parents - nurture over nature!
Thank you for sharing as it's helped me to understand my own thoughts, which over the last few months have been so jumbled up in my head that I've found it hard to think! It's made me realise that our babies will still remind us of their daddies despite biological make up. This forum really is a God send! :hugs:


----------



## MrsG30

Morning Ladies.

Tulip- thats really rubbish about your appointment. Hopefully on Tuesday you will get some answers- will be thinking about you please let us know.

MrsMo/Rainbow- I also have had a breakdown over the whole looks thing. mine isn't mainly facial wise but me and my hubby are both fairly short, only 5ft2 n 5ft 5, which is little for a man. When i have looked on the xytex site there was 100's of donors to choose from but none that 100% matched.
I had a quotation come back for 5 vials (5 shots) storage and postage which to be honest i wasn't too horrified at. So i know this is an option.

However after speaking with our clinic last week they advised if we wanted to use a known donor they would start the process now to run along side hubby's tests, so if its disappointing news for my hubby we have back up in place. Made all of this really real and really felt for my hubby.
We had to go and speak to his brother (and wife) last night who are 100% behind us and explain what was going to happen.
Hubby let me do all the talking, wish he had said something but he brother just said "i will do what i need to do, Ill do anything for you, your my little brother" nearly broke down on the spot but kept it together and even had a few laughs.
This way it kinds of stamps out the looks/height thing as there the imagine of each other.
Feel positive this morning that we have a plan in place.

been thinking about CM too :(

How is everyone? xxxx:hugs:


----------



## Rainbow123

MrsG30 - that's fantastic news about your hubby's brother. :happydance:
My DH has an older brother (who is genetically a half brother but they don't see each other as anything different to DH's 2 younger brothers) who has had children already and is the one most likely to help us out, but he has blond hair and DH and I are both dark haired. One of his younger brothers is almost like his double, but I can't see him and his girlfriend agreeing to help when they've not even got their own children. :nope:
How did you broach the subject with your brother in law? Did he know about the situation and offer to help or did you decide to ask? It's so hard knowing what to do in these situations! 
Hope you and hubby are both coping ok. :hugs:
X


----------



## MrsG30

Well Hubby just randomly blurted it out the same day we got the diagnose. He was away with work and his brother was there with him and he just said in his "emotional" state can/will you help? His brother said he would need to speak to his wife but couldn't see a problem.

To be honest i don't know how we would have approached it if he hadn't done it this way. However my sis in law mentioned soon as i told her what had happened.
they have kids and we knew they didn't want anymore he was actually booked in for the snip!!! so maybe that was fate.
I think if hubby hadn't of asked once my bil mentioned it to his wife she would have told him to offer.

Is it something your hubby would consider? 
hope ur ok xxxx:hugs:


Rainbow123 said:


> MrsG30 - that's fantastic news about your hubby's brother. :happydance:
> My DH has an older brother (who is genetically a half brother but they don't see each other as anything different to DH's 2 younger brothers) who has had children already and is the one most likely to help us out, but he has blond hair and DH and I are both dark haired. One of his younger brothers is almost like his double, but I can't see him and his girlfriend agreeing to help when they've not even got their own children. :nope:
> How did you broach the subject with your brother in law? Did he know about the situation and offer to help or did you decide to ask? It's so hard knowing what to do in these situations!
> Hope you and hubby are both coping ok. :hugs:
> X


----------



## Rainbow123

MrsG30 said:


> Well Hubby just randomly blurted it out the same day we got the diagnose. He was away with work and his brother was there with him and he just said in his "emotional" state can/will you help? His brother said he would need to speak to his wife but couldn't see a problem.
> 
> To be honest i don't know how we would have approached it if he hadn't done it this way. However my sis in law mentioned soon as i told her what had happened.
> they have kids and we knew they didn't want anymore he was actually booked in for the snip!!! so maybe that was fate.
> I think if hubby hadn't of asked once my bil mentioned it to his wife she would have told him to offer.
> 
> Is it something your hubby would consider?
> hope ur ok xxxx:hugs:
> 
> 
> Rainbow123 said:
> 
> 
> MrsG30 - that's fantastic news about your hubby's brother. :happydance:
> My DH has an older brother (who is genetically a half brother but they don't see each other as anything different to DH's 2 younger brothers) who has had children already and is the one most likely to help us out, but he has blond hair and DH and I are both dark haired. One of his younger brothers is almost like his double, but I can't see him and his girlfriend agreeing to help when they've not even got their own children. :nope:
> How did you broach the subject with your brother in law? Did he know about the situation and offer to help or did you decide to ask? It's so hard knowing what to do in these situations!
> Hope you and hubby are both coping ok. :hugs:
> XClick to expand...

That sounds like the best way to do it! :)
At the moment I really don't know what to do and can't see that my hubby would be open to it. Had a rather emotional day yesterday. We went for a walk and sat down to enjoy the view and DH started opening up about how crappy he's feeling. For some unknown reason on top of azoo he also has chronic inflammation of one of his testicles (they say there's a cyst but apparently it's unrelated to the azoo) which he's had for just over a year now. I've booked him to see the doc about it AGAIN so I really hope they can sort something out that works this time. Anyhoo, on top of the pain he's also feeling low about the azoo. We had a chat about what I've found out from reading everyone's experiences on here, and told him that we might want to have a think about things before our FS appointment as they might mention sperm donors. Well, after thinking that he was kind of open to this (he told me recently that whatever happened, I would have a baby so I inferred this meant sperm donor would be an option), he pretty much discounted it. :cry: I'm hoping that it's just that at the moment there's still hope and so he doesn't want to give that up until we have to. As he and I are the only ones that know about his diagnosis it's difficult as I can't help wondering that if his side of the family knew they'd offer to help. 
We both got home from our outing close to tears and felt pretty rubbish until I got to work today and the lovely children in my class came in and cheered me up again (they really are a great anti-depressant!). 
I really can not wait until 15th May when we are finally going to be able to start getting somewhere as the last 6 months have been awful. 
And there I was thinking I was getting more positive about this whole thing! It's a flipping emotional roller coaster isn't it?!
X


----------



## Mikihob

I am so sorry to hear about all of that Rainbow 123. My husband is also not liking the idea of donor sperm. Unfortunately he is the last boy in his side of the family. He has one 20 year old boy cousin but that's it. He wants to wait until every single possible option has been tested and tried before going the donor sperm route. 

This is such a terrible roller coaster ride. I wish that none of us had to go through this, at least we aren't going through it alone. I am glad that your DH was willing to sit and talk to you. I have read and heard of others who won't even talk about it or their feelings. 

I hope that you FS goes well and that you can get some good news.


----------



## MrsG30

Rainbow and Milki-

I know i hate that we are all going through this, sometimes seems so unfair when its such a natural thing but then i give myself a reality check and just know we have to deal with it. That doesn't mean im not sad/disappointed and often break down but i'm trying to hold it together.

Thankfully i have my mum who knows everything and 2 of my best friends who i can talk too, My hubby knows they know and hes actually even spoke to one of my friends about it. He had however on numerous times asked "do we have to talk about it" or "we've already discussed this"

He rang me today at work and just said his brother has an appointment on Friday this week so least thats the ball rolling, when i asked him if he was OK he said "i'm OK, i just wish it wasn't coming to this" Felt my heart breaking for him. He did then say "well least things are moving" so I know hes happy the ball is rolling. 
I was reading the tests he might need to have out to him last night from our FC WWW and i seen the look on his face, he said bloody hell that's a bit intrusive followed by but if it works.... I asked him if he was frightened to have the done and he said he wasnt. He did say to have MTESE the % of finding sperm needs to be high as he doesn't know if he/we can take another let down.
I just don't want him to rubbish his chances because he knows we have a back up
Hopefully after he has seen the urologist in a few weeks he will feel more positive????

regarding the donor sperm, he said to me he will use whatever it takes to get what we want, but he was very hung up on the idea that the baby would not look like him. Even when i explainned about the matching he looked so sad but least i know he would resort to that- I hope your Hubby's will too if need be xxxx:hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Hi everyone
I hope everyone would be doing good...well today we had our first appointment with urologist..He asked about my hubby history,habits etc etc and also asked me about my age ...well he explained a lil bit about azoospermia..he did general checkup...then my hubby submitted urine sample and blood samples for tests..dr told us that we will receive our appointment letter for ultra sound and SA within a week or two and then at that time we ill be given urine and blood tests results..he said that from blood tests we ill know whether its obstructive or non obstructive...but my question is that when we asked him that where the SA sample has to be submitted so he said in BRI where we already had previous 2 SA tests...but what I read that Urologists do their own advance SA ....lets see what ill happen...btw what do you girls think how much time our results will take ? thanks best wishes to all of you.


----------



## AuCa

Hi Tulip,

glad your appointment went well :hugs:
There is usually only one place that does SAs (at least here there is only one). And every doctor will send you there. It just depends on what your doctor orders - eg our GP ordered a "standard" SA, and then our RE ordered a specialized SA, then an even more specialized one. The same lab can do them all.

They should get the test results within one week. Most of them are done the next day, some usually take a bit longer (eg some STD tests).

MrsG30 - glad you see that things are moving along for you guys! I tend to agree with you in thinking that you should try the mTESE, since there is a real chance that they'll find something. But in the end it's a very personal decision to make.


----------



## Rainbow123

Miki - Thank you for your message :) I feel that it's going to be the case for us too, making sure we've exhausted all the other options before we can consider donor sperm, if only for peace of mind that we're making the right choice. What's your appointment in May for? Is it a SA to see if anything has changed?

Mrs G - I'm glad the ball is moving! :) Hoping that May is here before we know it so that your hubby can be helped to decide what to do when he speaks to the urologist. I'm glad you've got your mum and friends to talk it through with as you get closer to knowing which route you'll be taking.

Tulip - Glad your appointment went well :) Sounds like it was a lot of information to take in! I didn't realise they could tell if it was obstructive or non-obstructive through a blood test, keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Thank you lovely ladies for coming on here and sharing. Like you say Miki, it's horrible that any of us have to go through this, but at least we can go through it together.
*Hugs*
XXX


----------



## Mikihob

Rainbow123 said:


> Miki - Thank you for your message :) I feel that it's going to be the case for us too, making sure we've exhausted all the other options before we can consider donor sperm, if only for peace of mind that we're making the right choice. What's your appointment in May for? Is it a SA to see if anything has changed?
> 
> Thank you lovely ladies for coming on here and sharing. Like you say Miki, it's horrible that any of us have to go through this, but at least we can go through it together.
> *Hugs*
> XXX

Hi Rainbow! Yes, the May appointment is an SA. The doc wants to see if any change has taken place. If not, we may be flying to Seattle to discuss biopsy's and aspirations. We will be heading to IVF too. If they don't find any sperm we move on to serious talks about donor sperm. 

Here's to hoping. I wish it was already May so the test could be over with. I am constantly worrying about the results and my DH's reaction.


----------



## Verity Belle

Fingers crossed for everyone, i agree that this place is a god send to know that we are not alone going through this horrid rollercoaster xx:hugs:


----------



## awifey

The good newsafter 3 months (when we got our SA of zero), dh has finally made an appointment to see a doctor! We'll see what happens therebut it is finally a step! :)



Mikihob said:


> I am so sorry to hear about all of that Rainbow 123. My husband is also not liking the idea of donor sperm. Unfortunately he is the last boy in his side of the family. He has one 20 year old boy cousin but that's it. He wants to wait until every single possible option has been tested and tried before going the donor sperm route.
> 
> This is such a terrible roller coaster ride. I wish that none of us had to go through this, at least we aren't going through it alone. I am glad that your DH was willing to sit and talk to you. I have read and heard of others who won't even talk about it or their feelings.
> 
> I hope that you FS goes well and that you can get some good news.

My dh is also the last of the line on his sideno cousins with his name either. The one time we have talked about donor sperm so far he mentioned that he would think of using his uncles or his father's stuff I am not sure how I feel about that. His kid would be his half-brother?? I don't know, sounds kind of Oedipus like to me


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## MrsG30

dont think its legal to use his father............


awifey said:


> The good newsafter 3 months (when we got our SA of zero), dh has finally made an appointment to see a doctor! We'll see what happens therebut it is finally a step! :)
> 
> 
> 
> Mikihob said:
> 
> 
> I am so sorry to hear about all of that Rainbow 123. My husband is also not liking the idea of donor sperm. Unfortunately he is the last boy in his side of the family. He has one 20 year old boy cousin but that's it. He wants to wait until every single possible option has been tested and tried before going the donor sperm route.
> 
> This is such a terrible roller coaster ride. I wish that none of us had to go through this, at least we aren't going through it alone. I am glad that your DH was willing to sit and talk to you. I have read and heard of others who won't even talk about it or their feelings.
> 
> I hope that you FS goes well and that you can get some good news.
> 
> My dh is also the last of the line on his sideno cousins with his name either. The one time we have talked about donor sperm so far he mentioned that he would think of using his uncles or his father's stuff I am not sure how I feel about that. His kid would be his half-brother?? I don't know, sounds kind of Oedipus like to meClick to expand...


----------



## Rainbow123

[/QUOTE]

Hi Rainbow! Yes, the May appointment is an SA. The doc wants to see if any change has taken place. If not, we may be flying to Seattle to discuss biopsy's and aspirations. We will be heading to IVF too. If they don't find any sperm we move on to serious talks about donor sperm. 

Here's to hoping. I wish it was already May so the test could be over with. I am constantly worrying about the results and my DH's reaction.[/QUOTE]

I hope you get a positive result Miki :hugs: The waiting is the worst bit! If they could speed up the time between appointments it would be so much easier as I know I have spent 5 months with so many questions that I need answering and so many 'what if?'s. 
Have you found a specialist in Seattle? We're in the UK and have found a specialist (by looking in forums) who we're considering looking up if we're not happy with the doctors on the NHS, after we've managed to save some money up that is! Has anyone heard of Mr Ramsay at Charing Cross Hospital? He looks like he knows what he's talking about on the website I found for his clinic.
A couple of people mentioned Dr Schlegel at Cornell (which is in the USA I think!) was pretty clued up in azoospermia, not sure if that's anywhere near you?
If anyone finds a way of speeding up the time between appointments, please share! After our emotional Sunday talks, hubby and I decided that we needed to schedule in 'fun time' so that we have something fun to look forward to each weekend (to take our minds off things as I always find weekends the worst as I have too much time to think!). This Saturday we're having a 'Mexican night', including Mexican food as well as half hour tequila shots... don't know how long I will last, but we had a laugh planning it and hopefully we'll have lots of fun!
Hope we all get some positive news soon!
XXX


----------



## MrsG30

Rainbow.

Loved your post about making time for each other and fun time together.You and your hubby stay strong.

Ive heard/seen lots of people reporting about DR Ramsey, If you could share what you find out about him?

What date is your app?
My hubby is all wound up about this app and we know this is going t decide if we go for it with hubby (if we can) or if its deffo donor.

Got so many questions we need answered xxxxxHi Rainbow! Yes, the May appointment is an SA. The doc wants to see if any change has taken place. If not, we may be flying to Seattle to discuss biopsy's and aspirations. We will be heading to IVF too. If they don't find any sperm we move on to serious talks about donor sperm. 

Here's to hoping. I wish it was already May so the test could be over with. I am constantly worrying about the results and my DH's reaction.[/QUOTE]

I hope you get a positive result Miki :hugs: The waiting is the worst bit! If they could speed up the time between appointments it would be so much easier as I know I have spent 5 months with so many questions that I need answering and so many 'what if?'s. 
Have you found a specialist in Seattle? We're in the UK and have found a specialist (by looking in forums) who we're considering looking up if we're not happy with the doctors on the NHS, after we've managed to save some money up that is! Has anyone heard of Mr Ramsay at Charing Cross Hospital? He looks like he knows what he's talking about on the website I found for his clinic.
A couple of people mentioned Dr Schlegel at Cornell (which is in the USA I think!) was pretty clued up in azoospermia, not sure if that's anywhere near you?
If anyone finds a way of speeding up the time between appointments, please share! After our emotional Sunday talks, hubby and I decided that we needed to schedule in 'fun time' so that we have something fun to look forward to each weekend (to take our minds off things as I always find weekends the worst as I have too much time to think!). This Saturday we're having a 'Mexican night', including Mexican food as well as half hour tequila shots... don't know how long I will last, but we had a laugh planning it and hopefully we'll have lots of fun!
Hope we all get some positive news soon!
XXX[/QUOTE]


----------



## Mikihob

I hope you get a positive result Miki :hugs: The waiting is the worst bit! If they could speed up the time between appointments it would be so much easier as I know I have spent 5 months with so many questions that I need answering and so many 'what if?'s. 
Have you found a specialist in Seattle?
Hope we all get some positive news soon!
XXX[/QUOTE]

No, not yet. Our doc has been talking to someone, but we haven't figured that part out yet. Right now we are waiting on the SA.


----------



## deafgal01

Deb (who started this forum topic) has consulted mr. Ramsay, I have heard wonderful things about that dr in the uk.

Yes dr Schlegel of Cornell is in the USA (new York). This is a first I heard of this USA one.


----------



## tulip11

hi
My hubby had blood tests which was ordered by GP..and those test results shows that hormones were in normal range...now the urologist again asked for blood tests according to him which will show whether this is obstructive or non obstructive azoospermia...my question is that do you girls think there would be any difference between the previous blood tests results and the current blood test result which we will receive very soon ? I think so all of your hubbies had blood tests so were those of urologist blood tests result differed from the previous one ? and another thing what urologist told us that if there would be no production of sperms so we could not do anything in that case but what I have seen on internet nowadays there are treatments available for the most worst case as well ..


----------



## Rainbow123

MrsG30 said:


> Rainbow.
> 
> Loved your post about making time for each other and fun time together.You and your hubby stay strong.
> 
> Ive heard/seen lots of people reporting about DR Ramsey, If you could share what you find out about him?
> 
> What date is your app?
> My hubby is all wound up about this app and we know this is going t decide if we go for it with hubby (if we can) or if its deffo donor.
> 
> Got so many questions we need answered xxxxxI still need to research him properly, but will let you know what I find out about Dr Ramsay.
> Our NHS appointment is 15th May. Can not come soon enough!
> Fingers tightly crossed for you both. XXXXX


----------



## AuCa

Tulip - the blood levels can definitely change (they did with DH), and therefore it's always good to do them at least twice (or even 3 times). I'm not sure how blood tests will show if it's non-obstructive or obstructive. They can only give you a partial answer to that. If his FSH is very high it probably means non-obstructive, but if it's normal it could mean both. He needs to get an ultrasound then. For example DH has fairly normal hormone levels but still non-obstructive.

To find out if there is no sperm production at all he'll need to have an mTESE. I don't want to sound too negative, but the truth is that if they find nothing in a surgical sperm extraction there is really not much that can be done (most likely nothing). Then you'd have to consider donor sperm.


----------



## Stinas

tulip11 said:


> hi
> My hubby had blood tests which was ordered by GP..and those test results shows that hormones were in normal range...now the urologist again asked for blood tests according to him which will show whether this is obstructive or non obstructive azoospermia...my question is that do you girls think there would be any difference between the previous blood tests results and the current blood test result which we will receive very soon ? I think so all of your hubbies had blood tests so were those of urologist blood tests result differed from the previous one ? and another thing what urologist told us that if there would be no production of sperms so we could not do anything in that case but what I have seen on internet nowadays there are treatments available for the most worst case as well ..

Tulip - A urologist will always want to take his own blood tests. I believe they test for other things as well as what the gp took. 
My DH's blood results were the same both times. If all his levels are in normal range, they do seem to lean towards obstructive azoo. Which then start the ultrasounds and such. 
There has to be a reason for no production of sperm before they can tell you they cant do anything. No doctor should tell you they cant do anything before testing every option out first. If someone makes you feel that way, change doctors asap! A good doc should want to try every option before going the donor route!
If his tests come back normal, even if they are slightly high or low, I would highly suggest getting a TESE done....BUT have them FREEZE anything they find!! You wouldnt want to go through that again if you dont have to. 
When they did that to my DH...they found a couple "normal" sperm, but had plenty of sperm in the tissue that could be used for IVF. Doc put DH on clomid thinking it could help production, but then figured out it was a blockage. He found a cyst in his prostate, we removed it, but it was not the blockage. Apparently the blockage is much lower. He told us to do one more round of IVF and if it did not work, we would do reconstructive surgery to re route the main vessel that produces/shoots out sperm. Sorry, I forget the proper terms, but you get the point. Thankfully this round of IVF was a success. 
Ask all the questions you can possibly ask. If they are cold and rude, LEAVE. The OBGYN that gave me DH's results basically told me donor was our only route....I feel like sending her all my ultrasounds confirming our biological twins! Bitch! 
This is a super hard process that takes time, you just have to be as patient as possible and very on top of things/apts. 
:hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Thanks AuCa and Stinas.. its ok Stinas n congratulation for a successful IVF round. Have H & H 9 months :)


----------



## Stinas

Thank you tulip!!


----------



## MrsG30

Stinas- lol @ the bitch bit hahaha.

Girls can i ask you a question and be honest, I want to be as prepared as possible and i know stinas and auca have been through this-
after reading tulips post im a bit worried.

My hubby has FSH @ 351 and on the low test, the S said its pointing towards NOA, which we thought as hubby at mumps as an adult, so we know/presume it affected production.

He has only had 1 set of bloods but it was done at the urologist clinic, he hasnt had any physical exam or ultrasound, will this still be done in a NOA case?

am i right in thinking this is worst case scenario and Donor is more likely here? will he still hav to have some of the tests regardless?

thanks xxx


----------



## AuCa

MrsG30 said:


> Stinas- lol @ the bitch bit hahaha.
> 
> Girls can i ask you a question and be honest, I want to be as prepared as possible and i know stinas and auca have been through this-
> after reading tulips post im a bit worried.
> 
> My hubby has FSH @ 351 and on the low test, the S said its pointing towards NOA, which we thought as hubby at mumps as an adult, so we know/presume it affected production.
> 
> He has only had 1 set of bloods but it was done at the urologist clinic, he hasnt had any physical exam or ultrasound, will this still be done in a NOA case?
> 
> am i right in thinking this is worst case scenario and Donor is more likely here? will he still hav to have some of the tests regardless?
> 
> thanks xxx

Does your doc know that he had mumps as an adult?
The thing is that every doc just does what he/she thinks is right. Not all of them order the same tests. Therefore it is hard to say if they're going to do an ultrasound or not. I would be very(!) surprised though if they don't do a physical at least.
Actually we specifically asked DH's GP for the ultrasound (our fertility doc said it wasn't needed). If you're unsure, ask the doc at your next appointment and ask them to do it. And like I said, even your GP can probably order one.

There is no way to tell if they'll find sperm or not, but I would still be hopeful in your case! My husband was actually also diagnosed of probably having had an infection (not sure if it was mumps-related or a different virus/bacteria) in his childhood which caused his condition. This was based on the ultrasound (DH cannot remember ever having mumps or anything). 
My husband's FSH is not very high, and he actually still produces a few sperm, so his tissue probably was not entirely destroyed. I'm just saying this to give you some hope. Don't give up yet :hugs::hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Hi
According to my hubby in his childhood he had some kind of infection so dr said that probably was mumps. 
MrsG30 I am really sorry if my posts made you worried...I wish you all the very best.


----------



## MrsG30

AuCa said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Stinas- lol @ the bitch bit hahaha.
> 
> Girls can i ask you a question and be honest, I want to be as prepared as possible and i know stinas and auca have been through this-
> after reading tulips post im a bit worried.
> 
> My hubby has FSH @ 351 and on the low test, the S said its pointing towards NOA, which we thought as hubby at mumps as an adult, so we know/presume it affected production.
> 
> He has only had 1 set of bloods but it was done at the urologist clinic, he hasnt had any physical exam or ultrasound, will this still be done in a NOA case?
> 
> am i right in thinking this is worst case scenario and Donor is more likely here? will he still hav to have some of the tests regardless?
> 
> thanks xxx
> 
> Auca- oh yeah they know- they looked horrified and his Sa's are always nil- so to be honest they have tried to prepare us for the worst, hence us starting the donor route as back up already.
> 
> I know they obviously are going to try.something(s) or we wouldn't be going to the specialist but its the unknown that does my head in.
> 
> Thanks for the advice hun xxxx
> 
> Does your doc know that he had mumps as an adult?
> The thing is that every doc just does what he/she thinks is right. Not all of them order the same tests. Therefore it is hard to say if they're going to do an ultrasound or not. I would be very(!) surprised though if they don't do a physical at least.
> Actually we specifically asked DH's GP for the ultrasound (our fertility doc said it wasn't needed). If you're unsure, ask the doc at your next appointment and ask them to do it. And like I said, even your GP can probably order one.
> 
> There is no way to tell if they'll find sperm or not, but I would still be hopeful in your case! My husband was actually also diagnosed of probably having had an infection (not sure if it was mumps-related or a different virus/bacteria) in his childhood which caused his condition. This was based on the ultrasound (DH cannot remember ever having mumps or anything).
> My husband's FSH is not very high, and he actually still produces a few sperm, so his tissue probably was not entirely destroyed. I'm just saying this to give you some hope. Don't give up yet :hugs::hugs:Click to expand...




tulip11 said:


> Hi
> According to my hubby in his childhood he had some kind of infection so dr said that probably was mumps.
> MrsG30 I am really sorry if my posts made you worried...I wish you all the very best.

Tulip
dont worry hun, I like to know these things, i like to be prepared and also hear how you are getting on xx


----------



## BrandyRelax

MrsG30 said:


> Stinas- lol @ the bitch bit hahaha.
> 
> Girls can i ask you a question and be honest, I want to be as prepared as possible and i know stinas and auca have been through this-
> after reading tulips post im a bit worried.
> 
> My hubby has FSH @ 351 and on the low test, the S said its pointing towards NOA, which we thought as hubby at mumps as an adult, so we know/presume it affected production.
> 
> He has only had 1 set of bloods but it was done at the urologist clinic, he hasnt had any physical exam or ultrasound, will this still be done in a NOA case?
> 
> am i right in thinking this is worst case scenario and Donor is more likely here? will he still hav to have some of the tests regardless?
> 
> thanks xxx

I heard from my fertility specialist as well as the urologist that the hormones will give them an idea, but won't tell them whether they will find sperm. The odds are 50% of finding sperm that is useable in IVF.

I would recommend doing an ultrasound anyways... because it will ensure that there isn't an obstruction in addition to NOA issues. 

With low testosterone, I think there are meds (i.e. HCG shots and Clomid) that would be helpful in bringing up his testosterone and start producing sperm and ensure the best possible chance of finding sperm in a mTESE.


----------



## MrsG30

Hi
Thanks or that its really interesting. Not long to wat now, less than 2 weeks:hugs:


BrandyRelax said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Stinas- lol @ the bitch bit hahaha.
> 
> Girls can i ask you a question and be honest, I want to be as prepared as possible and i know stinas and auca have been through this-
> after reading tulips post im a bit worried.
> 
> My hubby has FSH @ 351 and on the low test, the S said its pointing towards NOA, which we thought as hubby at mumps as an adult, so we know/presume it affected production.
> 
> He has only had 1 set of bloods but it was done at the urologist clinic, he hasnt had any physical exam or ultrasound, will this still be done in a NOA case?
> 
> am i right in thinking this is worst case scenario and Donor is more likely here? will he still hav to have some of the tests regardless?
> 
> thanks xxx
> 
> I heard from my fertility specialist as well as the urologist that the hormones will give them an idea, but won't tell them whether they will find sperm. The odds are 50% of finding sperm that is useable in IVF.
> 
> I would recommend doing an ultrasound anyways... because it will ensure that there isn't an obstruction in addition to NOA issues.
> 
> With low testosterone, I think there are meds (i.e. HCG shots and Clomid) that would be helpful in bringing up his testosterone and start producing sperm and ensure the best possible chance of finding sperm in a mTESE.Click to expand...


----------



## sdb123

My DH and I went to a local urologist after two SAs showing zero sperm. The urologist did a physical exam and went over family and medical history. He said that he didn't feel any vas deferens, and this makes sense considering one of my DH's brothers is unable to conceive. 
He referred us to a reproductive specialist. 
We don't necessarily want to go through IVF or any other assistance, BUT I do want to make sure that missing vas deferents is the cause....
Does anyone know what the next steps would be at the reproductive center? Physical exam, blood tests, ultrasound????


----------



## tulip11

Hi sdb123 we had our first appointment with urologist on 23rd April where he did physical examination, asked about history, some general questions...he explained about azoospermia. Then he ordered blood tests at the same time, so my hubby submitted blood samples and yes before everything nurse came to my hubby and asked for urine sample as well...they told us that we ill receive our appointments for ultra sound and SA by post or telephone then when we ill have our appointments
we ill be informed about urine and blood tests results. .but dr said that blood result ill show whether this is obstructive or non obstructive azoospermia he didn't refer us to FS.


----------



## MrsG30

Hi
Seems every clinic does things differently.
We went to a FS first, they did SA's and bloodwork then were going to urologist in May, We only go back to FS once were completly finished with urology.
There is plenty girls on here who's Hubby's have been through the exct saee so im sure they will be along soon to explain what they did/didnt do.

Take care xxx


sdb123 said:


> My DH and I went to a local urologist after two SAs showing zero sperm. The urologist did a physical exam and went over family and medical history. He said that he didn't feel any vas deferens, and this makes sense considering one of my DH's brothers is unable to conceive.
> He referred us to a reproductive specialist.
> We don't necessarily want to go through IVF or any other assistance, BUT I do want to make sure that missing vas deferents is the cause....
> Does anyone know what the next steps would be at the reproductive center? Physical exam, blood tests, ultrasound????


----------



## AuCa

sdb123 said:


> My DH and I went to a local urologist after two SAs showing zero sperm. The urologist did a physical exam and went over family and medical history. He said that he didn't feel any vas deferens, and this makes sense considering one of my DH's brothers is unable to conceive.
> He referred us to a reproductive specialist.
> We don't necessarily want to go through IVF or any other assistance, BUT I do want to make sure that missing vas deferents is the cause....
> Does anyone know what the next steps would be at the reproductive center? Physical exam, blood tests, ultrasound????

Your DH should do a test for CF (Cystic Fibrosis). As far as I know a missing vas deferens is very often caused by being a carrier for Cystic Fibrosis.
I'm pretty confident your specialist will order this test as a first step, as it seems the most intuitive. He'll probably order hormone blood tests, most likely will do an ultrasound.


----------



## sdb123

Thank you ladies for the replies. I think I will call the reproductive center this week and explain the situation. Hopefully they can give us insight as to what they will be doing before we travel and pay to see them!


----------



## MrsG30

lt us know how you get on xx


----------



## rdleela

Hey, ladies, just a quick update for anyone following what's going on with our experience with azoos...DH has obstructive azoospermia, had surgery Sept.28th/12, and we just got another SA done today, and his count more than tripled in 2 months! Hoping we see more improvement in 2 months time...


----------



## MadCatLady

Hi,

Ok I am new to both forums and just starting down the path of infertility and the treatment that comes with it and feel I know nothing! Been TTC for over a year, after six months they did initial tests on both me and hubby and said everything was fine - after a year we went back and on looking back on those first tests they realised that the somewhat incompetent first Doctor was wrong and actually hubby was azoospermic! (Don't ask me how the hell he managed to interpret that test result wrongly).

Anyway, after a consult on Monday the Urology guy said that he thought it was congenital and that there would be little chance of any sperm being there on biopsy. He won't do a biopsy though as he wants fertility clinic to do it as then they can freeze anything they do find there and then. 

I'm awaiting tests to make sure all's working with me but so far so good. 

Does this sound usual? We were somewhat taken aback that he could make such a certain diagnosis off examination, hormone levels and a sperm sample. Think we're both feeling completely lost at moment as have no idea what happens now and what, if anything is possible. Urology guy said it would have to be IVF with sperm donor or adoption - is that right?


----------



## awifey

Congrats rdleela! I hope a baby is soon in your future! :)


----------



## AuCa

rdleela said:


> Hey, ladies, just a quick update for anyone following what's going on with our experience with azoos...DH has obstructive azoospermia, had surgery Sept.28th/12, and we just got another SA done today, and his count more than tripled in 2 months! Hoping we see more improvement in 2 months time...

Woooohhooooo!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
I am SOOOO excited for you guys!!!!


----------



## Rainbow123

MadCatLady said:


> Hi,
> 
> Ok I am new to both forums and just starting down the path of infertility and the treatment that comes with it and feel I know nothing! Been TTC for over a year, after six months they did initial tests on both me and hubby and said everything was fine - after a year we went back and on looking back on those first tests they realised that the somewhat incompetent first Doctor was wrong and actually hubby was azoospermic! (Don't ask me how the hell he managed to interpret that test result wrongly).
> 
> Anyway, after a consult on Monday the Urology guy said that he thought it was congenital and that there would be little chance of any sperm being there on biopsy. He won't do a biopsy though as he wants fertility clinic to do it as then they can freeze anything they do find there and then.
> 
> I'm awaiting tests to make sure all's working with me but so far so good.
> 
> Does this sound usual? We were somewhat taken aback that he could make such a certain diagnosis off examination, hormone levels and a sperm sample. Think we're both feeling completely lost at moment as have no idea what happens now and what, if anything is possible. Urology guy said it would have to be IVF with sperm donor or adoption - is that right?

Hi MadCatLady,
Our urologist was just as 'helpful' telling my husband pretty much what you described. I think they need some training in how not to be such a great big arse, as somehow they don't realise it's people's lives and dreams their messing with when they make such ridiculous statements. 
I think they should definitely investigate properly. That's what we are going to do anyway! And if we're not convinced they've done all they can we are planning on getting a second opinion as we've already been advised by our GP to do with the urologist. 
Sorry to hear that you have had such a negative time. It's hard enough receiving the diagnosis, we don't need insensitive health professionals too (who by the way, do not know everything imho)!
Hope you're ok.
:hugs: XXX


----------



## Mikihob

Rainbow123 said:


> MadCatLady said:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Ok I am new to both forums and just starting down the path of infertility and the treatment that comes with it and feel I know nothing! Been TTC for over a year, after six months they did initial tests on both me and hubby and said everything was fine - after a year we went back and on looking back on those first tests they realised that the somewhat incompetent first Doctor was wrong and actually hubby was azoospermic! (Don't ask me how the hell he managed to interpret that test result wrongly).
> 
> Anyway, after a consult on Monday the Urology guy said that he thought it was congenital and that there would be little chance of any sperm being there on biopsy. He won't do a biopsy though as he wants fertility clinic to do it as then they can freeze anything they do find there and then.
> 
> I'm awaiting tests to make sure all's working with me but so far so good.
> 
> Does this sound usual? We were somewhat taken aback that he could make such a certain diagnosis off examination, hormone levels and a sperm sample. Think we're both feeling completely lost at moment as have no idea what happens now and what, if anything is possible. Urology guy said it would have to be IVF with sperm donor or adoption - is that right?
> 
> Hi MadCatLady,
> Our urologist was just as 'helpful' telling my husband pretty much what you described. I think they need some training in how not to be such a great big arse, as somehow they don't realise it's people's lives and dreams their messing with when they make such ridiculous statements.
> I think they should definitely investigate properly. That's what we are going to do anyway! And if we're not convinced they've done all they can we are planning on getting a second opinion as we've already been advised by our GP to do with the urologist.
> Sorry to hear that you have had such a negative time. It's hard enough receiving the diagnosis, we don't need insensitive health professionals too (who by the way, do not know everything imho)!
> Hope you're ok.
> :hugs: XXXClick to expand...

Agreed. I can't believe that a urologist said that to you two ladies. How terrible. I wouldn't believe there was no sperm at all until a biopsy came back saying that. Even then. Aspirations are done in several different places where sperm is stored and developed. I wouldn't go to donor or adoption right away. Wait and have some blood work done, switch urologists asap, and then talk to your dh about the biopsy. 

Hope your next urologist isn't such an "arse" (thanks Rainbow 123)


----------



## MadCatLady

Hi Rainbow123 & Mikihob,

Thanks for your replies - reassured me somewhat that maybe it isn't all over already! Mikihob - they said he might get a biopsy done at the fertility clinic, but we can't go there till I have my tests done (hopefully this month) so just waiting again - doesn't really help when a Dr has already told me that "I can't mess around at my age" which makes me panic all the more about months passing by (I'm 34 this month so I didn't actually think I was in the "old age" bracket yet!). 

It is interesting to hear that you have had such a similar experience Rainbow123 - I think I will go back to my GP to discuss what the Urologist said as she seems quite sensible. You are definitely right though that they really don't know everything and I should bear that in mind more! Really hope your second opinion is much more constructive!

Thanks so much to you both for your replies - doesn't feel quite as lonely being able to talk on here!


----------



## AuCa

MadCatLady - your docs honestly seem to be complete jerks :wacko:
Besides being so rude and insensitive about your husband's azoo diagnosis they're also telling you that you "can't mess around at your age"???? :growlmad:
34yrs is still a great age for IVF!!! And you haven't even done your tests yet, so they have NO idea how well you'll respond.
I'll give you another reassurance (and I know that this depends on the woman, but just to put things into perspective) - I'm 33 1/2 yrs old, and my ovarian reserve is excellent. I actually need to be on a special protocol to suppress my ovaries because I'm at risk of producing too many eggs (and thus at risk for OHSS). If you haven't had your Day 3 levels/AFC or AHM done, they have no way of knowing. Don't panic :hugs::hugs::hugs:

(PS - and no clinic or doc ever told me that "I can't mess around at my age")


----------



## tulip11

Hi
Yesterday we got a letter to book an appointment for ultrasound within 14 days from the date mentioned on this letter.so today we booked an appointment for ultrasound on 8th of may we ill, receive appointment letter very soon.


----------



## MrsG30

hiya ladies

having an awful day- had our family dog put to sleep a week ago and got his ashes today- if it wasnt upsetting enough my parents are talking about a new puppy and i know there holding off becase they know how much we want a baby and they are our childcare!!!!

totally frustrated :( xxx


----------



## MadCatLady

Hi AuCa - do you know how reassuring it is to hear the words "don't panic"?! Thank you! So I might chalk these dopey doctors up to being entirely rubbish then :growlmad: Everyone's stories are reassuring/helpful in learning more. And I will still class myself as 33 years young then :winkwink:

I have my tests this month! fingers crossed they go ok! I am still learning all the short hand terms for everything, is there anywhere on this site that let's you know what they all mean?! 

MrsG30 - I'm new here but I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you losing your dog along with everything else, many hugs :hugs:


----------



## MrsG30

Madcatlady

Thanks Hun and welcome.
its such a shitty thing to have to deal with but were all here to help where we can so ask away xxx

i think if you go to the front page of this forum there i a list to explain the short hand xx


MadCatLady said:


> Hi AuCa - do you know how reassuring it is to hear the words "don't panic"?! Thank you! So I might chalk these dopey doctors up to being entirely rubbish then :growlmad: Everyone's stories are reassuring/helpful in learning more. And I will still class myself as 33 years young then :winkwink:
> 
> I have my tests this month! fingers crossed they go ok! I am still learning all the short hand terms for everything, is there anywhere on this site that let's you know what they all mean?!
> 
> MrsG30 - I'm new here but I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you losing your dog along with everything else, many hugs :hugs:


----------



## Mikihob

MrsG30 said:


> hiya ladies
> 
> having an awful day- had our family dog put to sleep a week ago and got his ashes today- if it wasnt upsetting enough my parents are talking about a new puppy and i know there holding off becase they know how much we want a baby and they are our childcare!!!!
> 
> totally frustrated :( xxx

My dog was put down two weeks ago. I cried so much. Monday I picked up the memorial paw print and cried in my car. It sucks having something like that happen while all of this ttc stuff is going on. 

I feel your frustration. :hugs:


----------



## MrsG30

so sorry to hear that- i feel your pain- there part of the family. I hope both our lucks change soon xxx


Mikihob said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> hiya ladies
> 
> having an awful day- had our family dog put to sleep a week ago and got his ashes today- if it wasnt upsetting enough my parents are talking about a new puppy and i know there holding off becase they know how much we want a baby and they are our childcare!!!!
> 
> totally frustrated :( xxx
> 
> My dog was put down two weeks ago. I cried so much. Monday I picked up the memorial paw print and cried in my car. It sucks having something like that happen while all of this ttc stuff is going on.
> 
> I feel your frustration. :hugs:Click to expand...


----------



## Briss

Ladies, can anyone recommend a good urologist in London? my DH's SA is just getting from bad to worse and our FS has only one answer - IVF and I am still fighting to improve his sperm or at least understand what's wrong.


----------



## Deb111

Briss said:


> Ladies, can anyone recommend a good urologist in London? my DH's SA is just getting from bad to worse and our FS has only one answer - IVF and I am still fighting to improve his sperm or at least understand what's wrong.

Jonathan Ramsey! He has clinics in windsor and hammersmith that i know of - just google him. He is fab and the reason i am a mum today! X


----------



## Briss

Deb, thank you so much for the recommendation! how did he help improve your DH's SA?


----------



## Briss

Deb, I did a bit of googling and Jonathan Ramsey has amazing reviews! I am so glad you recommended him, I beginning to feel hopeful again! cant thank you enough!!


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Hey ladies, just an update for anybody on this thread dealing with sertoli cell only syndrome. Our male fertility doctor has given us a 5-10% chance of finding sperm and he has been successful in 2 patients over his career. For our IVF they are going to do dh's mTESE the day before my egg retrieval to give the lab techs as much time as possible to search through the tissue.

I have my fingers crossed we are one of the lucky ones.


----------



## MrsG30

Hopeful 
Thanks for this- its really imformative- we are at the urolgist on thurday. what is the reason for your hubbys Azoo? and how did the diagnose the sertoli cell only? my tests did they do?
Hope you dont mind sharing?

and can i ask if they cant find anything ill you have a back up i place?

thanks and good luck xxx


Hopeful Cat said:


> Hey ladies, just an update for anybody on this thread dealing with sertoli cell only syndrome. Our male fertility doctor has given us a 5-10% chance of finding sperm and he has been successful in 2 patients over his career. For our IVF they are going to do dh's mTESE the day before my egg retrieval to give the lab techs as much time as possible to search through the tissue.
> 
> I have my fingers crossed we are one of the lucky ones.


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Hey MrsG30 - no worries, I'm an open book :) A lot of the stuff is in my journal but the breakdown is:
- dh's undescended testicles not corrected until age 9
- 2 SA's with azoospermia diagnosis
- physical exam diagnosed small testicle size
- hormone testing but i don't remember results expect testosterone is fine
- fine needle aspiration found zero sperm and diagnosed sertoli cell only
- fresh cycle mTESE sheduled in with IVF ISCI

We don't have a donor sperm backup as yet. Our specialist doesn't want us to have to muddy the waters thinking about that yet. If we find sperm but ivf doesn't work then we try again, if they don't find sperm then we move to backup option.


----------



## tulip11

Hi 
Tomorrow ill be my hubby ultrasound. So would we get any ans after ultrasound ?


----------



## bluelily

hi, we say our consultant again on Fri and he has diagnosed hubby with chromosome disorder klinefelters syndrome. so basically infertile! devastated, not sure what to do now! :-(


----------



## Mikihob

bluelily said:


> hi, we say our consultant again on Fri and he has diagnosed hubby with chromosome disorder klinefelters syndrome. so basically infertile! devastated, not sure what to do now! :-(

bluelily I am sorry to hear that you received bad news. I was doing research on Klinefelters Syndrome yesterday. It popped up in one of my searches. How are you doing? How did DH take the news?

You two still have options. But it might be good to wait a couple of weeks before discussing them. If not for you, for DH. My hubby has secondary infertility and has zero sperm in his SA's. He is very touchy about it and quite sad. He feels terrible for being the reason I am not pregnant (no matter what I say to him). We have already decided on donor sperm if he doesn't have any sperm. But it's still a rough time. He really doesn't want to do donor sperm, but feels beaten down he produces zero. If the news comes back it's still zero and we schedule a biopsy and find zero, I will wait a couple weeks to a month before starting the donor sperm talk. I am not even sure what state of mind he will be in after that. 

This is so hard. Sometimes it seems like no matter how far you get in this journey, there is always something to knock you back. 

I hope you and DH are doing ok after this. If you need to chat message me. :hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

Hey ladies,

Seem a common theme in here is our husbands feel less of a man simply over not being able to get us knocked up. My question is- any ideas what we can all do to boost their self esteem or celebrate their manhood?

Mine recently mentioned that he felt I was leaving him out of the whole process with my information search and going too fast. I gently reminded him if I was in such a hurry, I would have had my blood screen test done last sept and the list of donors picked out (which I did not do, that is going to be his job since it overwhelms me too much to even look). I also said, not having swimmers do not make you any less of a man, cuz he takes good care of me. I also promised when we undergo iui, I will wait to test together. I told him he will be the father because who is with me from conception to pregnancy to birth/labor of this baby? He will, not the donor or any of my friends.

That said, I celebrated his manhood with some sex later that night after the Convo but I still feel like there is something more I could do?


----------



## MrsG30

Everything you said/done I have tried. I watched my hubby with our god-daughter today and he was a dream- it makes no difference who the childs father is biologcally I know he will be a perfect dad to her, Ive just told him and I even seen him smile


deafgal01 said:


> Hey ladies,
> 
> Seem a common theme in here is our husbands feel less of a man simply over not being able to get us knocked up. My question is- any ideas what we can all do to boost their self esteem or celebrate their manhood?
> 
> Mine recently mentioned that he felt I was leaving him out of the whole process with my information search and going too fast. I gently reminded him if I was in such a hurry, I would have had my blood screen test done last sept and the list of donors picked out (which I did not do, that is going to be his job since it overwhelms me too much to even look). I also said, not having swimmers do not make you any less of a man, cuz he takes good care of me. I also promised when we undergo iui, I will wait to test together. I told him he will be the father because who is with me from conception to pregnancy to birth/labor of this baby? He will, not the donor or any of my friends.
> 
> That said, I celebrated his manhood with some sex later that night after the Convo but I still feel like there is something more I could do?


----------



## Tammerzann

Hello all,

I am new to posting in this thread but not new to reading it. :) I first started reading it about a month ago when we got the results of my DH's SA. I did just a little bit of research to find out about what the results could mean for us and somehow got directed to this thread and started reading the posts and saved it in my favorites to refer to and keep reading later. While I haven't read every single post I have read a lot and kind of got a feeling of what some of you are going through. It is definitely nice to be able to read other's experiences and now share my own.

A little history about us, my DH and I have been married for eight months but TTC for a little over a year. He always had doubts about his abilities to conceive because he was in a very long term relationship before us (15 years!) and had never done anything to prevent. He was pretty adamant that he thought it was something to do with him but I always tried to play devil's advocate and tell him that maybe she was unable. But I guess his gut feeling was right. He went in for his SA on March the 8th and we got a phone call on the 10th (a Sunday!) with the results of zero sperm. The person who he spoke with suggested he make an appointment with a urologist and gave him a name of someone in the next building over that specialized in male infertility. We waited a little while before calling to make an appointment and there was a slight wait to get in but the appt was today!

(I started typing details on how the urologist appt went but deleted it realizing you didn't need so many details in my first post.) :) 

But basically, we found out more than we expected to find out today. We just assumed he would talk with us about general things and then refer us for some type of testing but during the physical exam he discovered that my DH has CAVD. He seemed very optimistic which helped both of us stay optimistic. We go back for the results of the blood work on the 4th of June. I'm very scared about how much this is all going to cost but we are both ready to explore all of our options. 

I'm looking forward to keeping in touch with all of you and reading your updates. I know none of us want to be here but I appreciate all of your posts already! 

PS I tend to ramble and my posts will most likely be novels! I will try and keep them concise and to the point! :)


----------



## deafgal01

Tam- do you have a journal on here to pour all these into? I have a journal I write in on a more regular basis on here, I do check in on here occasionally.


----------



## bluelily

Mikihob thanks for your reply. he's feeling pretty down and says he's useless which i obviously tell him he's not! the consultant said we could go to biopsy but only 5% chance of finding anything-though from reading on internet others have been given higher than this so not sure what determines the chances of success? does anyone know? also hubby doesn't really show any other symptoms- can grow beard easily and has hairs on chest lol- even consultant said hes not lacking testosterone!


----------



## deafgal01

Blue- maybe what we all should do is pamper husband day to help them feel manly however they do that. I am thinking of ordering mine to sit and enjoy a red-green show marathon or some kind of man movie/show while I work up a sweat in the kitchen or any chore that needs doing this weekend, in my household my dh typically does all kitchen duties (cookin and cleaning).


----------



## Mikihob

I have been talking with my husband a lot and letting him know that whether or not we are able to get pregnant, I am still happy that I have him for a husband. I then tell him how amazing I think he is. I also tell him research that I have found showing the success stories and I have been dropping donor ideas (doctor started and won't stop..lol) and now he is mentioning them as the back-up. He does feel like less of a man, especially since he has kids from a previous marriage eight years ago. He is confused and bummed. Together we are working it out. I tell him everyday what I find out and what I learn, what videos I watch, etc. He seems to feel like he is in the loop more this way. If he doesn't want to hear it, he lets me know. 

Bluelily - I would get a biopsy done and not count your chickens before they hatch. I wouldn't let an opinion rule anything out. Unless a biopsy says he has no sperm, assume he has some without a way to get out. It's easier said than done. I have a deep fear that my husband's biopsy will come back with nothing, but I try to tell myself otherwise. It helps a little. 

Tammerzann - What is CAVD?? I haven't seen or heard about that before. If you want to chat or stay in touch, message me. I would be happy to read all your novels. I am a rambler too. :hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Hi we are back from ultra sound so according to the person who did ultrasound he said my hubby blood flow is normal, there is no blockage, testicles size is normal everything is normal so according to him its non obstructive azoospermia :(:( I think its the most worst scenerio case.


----------



## MrsG30

Hi ladies
We are at the uroligst tomorrow and worried sick :( xxx


----------



## AuCa

Good luck for tomorrow MrsG30 :hugs::hugs:

Tulip - they might still find sperm in a TESE. Most men with azoospermia have non-obstructive azoo, there is only a few with blockages or other issues (pituitary etc). What's your next step?


----------



## MrsG30

Tulip
we were told this diagnose just based on bloodwork- my hubbys fsh was really high and that was enough for them to say it wasnt a blockage problem- im not sure what im expecting tomorro at the urologist-guess he will tell us what he can/will do to find any sperm and what the chances are.
Like Auca said most azoo men are non obstructive and there are plenty still become biological daddies so dont give up yet. whats next for you? xx



tulip11 said:


> Hi we are back from ultra sound so according to the person who did ultrasound he said my hubby blood flow is normal, there is no blockage, testicles size is normal everything is normal so according to him its non obstructive azoospermia :(:( I think its the most worst scenerio case.


----------



## tulip11

Thanks AuCa and MrsG30...well at our first appointment they did some blood tests and urine as well but we didnt get results. They told us that we ill receive appointment letters for both ultrasound and SA but we got ultrasound only not SA. the blood tests which GP did shown all hormones levels nprmal. Now we dont know what we ill get next ? We ill wait for results and SA appointment now idk how much time does ultrasound result takes place when urologist ill get that ?


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## tulip11

Good luck MrsG30 :):)


----------



## awifey

Dh went in for his second test today, more thn 3 months after the first one. He still hasn't seen a doctor. :( fx'd this test goes better than the last one!

He has quit smoking, reduced alcohol, and started taking supplements.


----------



## tulip11

any positive reviews about sperm hope ?


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## MrsG30

Hi girls
update from me:
Uroligst did a physical exam and from the bloods and previous texts he is pretty sure mumps caused a production problem and he gave us a 40/50 %chance of finding sperm in the MTESE! He said there is no point looking for sperm in any other procedure, BUT he also said combing that % with the ICSi sucess rating the chances of us being biologial parents together are very small although he wouldnt rule it out.
He took more blood to make sure DH's gene's are ok and told us to think about what we want, he made us an appointment for 8 weeks and in that time to decide if we are to to take the chance, if we do, the MTESE will be in 9 month from July and it will be scheled with a fresh ICSI cycle with Brother in law as back up. If we dont take the chance he will discharge us from urolgy and pass us back to the FS, they then will start the process with donor, 6 rounds of IUI and onto IV/ICSI if need be.
DH at the Minute is saying he wants us to go straight to donor but we have lots of talking to do and 2 month to make a decision. I must admit the MTESE sounds horrendous and he said Dh would need 4 weeks off work and the side affects can be long term!!!
He said my PCOS is not an issue as they will overide my ovulation with meds so at least thats something.
I not sure how I feel, I dont feel any worse than I did to be honest, I/we just need need to make the right decision


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## AuCa

:hugs::hugs::hugs:
I am confused about what he told you about the mTESE. Every doc we have talked to told us that it is really a very minor procedure, and that the recovery is fairly quick - maybe one week off, but certainly not four!
And 40-50% is a pretty good number :hugs:

And IVF-ICSI success rates are really not that bad either. I don't know why he is being so pessimistic. I find that a bit odd. IUI success rates are actually WAY lower than IVF success rates.

I think it's a good idea for you two to take some time and think about this. It is a very important decision to make. Wishing you all the best! :hugs:


----------



## Mikihob

MrsG30 I am so sorry that you received such terrible news from the doctor. At least they gave you a chance during the MTESE. I didn't know the MTESE required the hubby to take 4 weeks off work. That is crazy. My husband is feeling the same as yours. He says that he doesn't want the biopsy or the TESE because of the pain and the time off work. He has mentioned that we should use the donor and deal with it. But over the time we have mentioned it and talked about it, he now really wants to try. He wants to know every aspect of each procedure risks, outcomes, etc. Then we will have to talk. I think our DH's are just scared about what might happen plus long term effects. 

I hope that you and DH are doing ok. If you want to talk and vent, you can message me ANY time. 

:hugs:


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## MrsG30

Hi Love
TMI post-in the words of the Dr he said as hubby works in construction he would need 2 weeks min but 4 preferable.
he said they will slit the scrotum, peel the skin right back off both testes and biopsy bits from here and there, theen sew and glue up- he said there right a chance of infection and rupture!! 
I was pretty pleased with 40/50% but then he added ICSI success % on top of that and the chance of the sperm being mobile/viable reduces the actual chances further. Was a bit of a blow. He gave hubby a info sheet about the op and even that seems severe so we were v confused.

He didnt however rubbish our chances and said there happy to proceed if thats what we want.
Weve got 2 months to discuss and make a decision?!?!?!?!?
very strange day today xxx


AuCa said:


> :hugs::hugs::hugs:
> I am confused about what he told you about the mTESE. Every doc we have talked to told us that it is really a very minor procedure, and that the recovery is fairly quick - maybe one week off, but certainly not four!
> And 40-50% is a pretty good number :hugs:
> 
> And IVF-ICSI success rates are really not that bad either. I don't know why he is being so pessimistic. I find that a bit odd. IUI success rates are actually WAY lower than IVF success rates.
> 
> I think it's a good idea for you two to take some time and think about this. It is a very important decision to make. Wishing you all the best! :hugs:


----------



## MrsG30

Thankyou Miki

I know, I feel so sad for hubby.
He didnt seem to fazed bout the ops/pain but i could see the time off work worried him, personally I think hes more concerned about how much more he can take. Im not sure he can cope with many more knocks. Like i said to Auca 40/50% is more than what we expected but then he added the other bits on and now we dont seem as postive!!!

Not that there is any easy decision in any of this but I dont want my hubby to rubbish his own chance because he knows how desperate I am for a baby and that we have a donor/back up.

its a bit of a mess xx


Mikihob said:


> MrsG30 I am so sorry that you received such terrible news from the doctor. At least they gave you a chance during the MTESE. I didn't know the MTESE required the hubby to take 4 weeks off work. That is crazy. My husband is feeling the same as yours. He says that he doesn't want the biopsy or the TESE because of the pain and the time off work. He has mentioned that we should use the donor and deal with it. But over the time we have mentioned it and talked about it, he now really wants to try. He wants to know every aspect of each procedure risks, outcomes, etc. Then we will have to talk. I think our DH's are just scared about what might happen plus long term effects.
> 
> I hope that you and DH are doing ok. If you want to talk and vent, you can message me ANY time.
> 
> :hugs:


----------



## AuCa

Oh I see, its' because your DH does hard physical work. That does make sense.
It's really interesting how different docs describe the procedure though. We actually had a talk about mTESE at our last appointment as well. Once we do our IVF cycle the doc will be there to do an "emergency mTESE" if required (DH will probably have enough sperm, but if on that day he doesn't they will do the mTESE on him). And he literally said to us "Don't worry it's a 5 min procedure which is not very invasive at all; I do this all the time, and it's no big deal"


----------



## MrsG30

Do you pay for your treatment or are you insured?
I guess cost might have something to do with it?
doc said because of my hubbys results and the reason behind his azoo (mumps) thy wouldnt want to do the MTESE more than once as it can lower his testsorone levesl further and they dont want to do that for later in life for complications, however if they got in there and they was more than a few they would consider it if the ICSI wasnt a sucess first time round, he said in his whole carrer (20 odd years) he can count on 1 hand how many sperms from MTESE could be frozen. So it always has to be done with a fresh cycle, in our case numorous biopsys might not be safe.

It was a lot to tak it xxxx


AuCa said:


> Oh I see, its' because your DH does hard physical work. That does make sense.
> It's really interesting how different docs describe the procedure though. We actually had a talk about mTESE at our last appointment as well. Once we do our IVF cycle the doc will be there to do an "emergency mTESE" if required (DH will probably have enough sperm, but if on that day he doesn't they will do the mTESE on him). And he literally said to us "Don't worry it's a 5 min procedure which is not very invasive at all; I do this all the time, and it's no big deal"


----------



## AuCa

We pay ourselves. Our insurance might cover some of the meds, but not the actual IVF/TESE etc.

Yes, I think they don't want to do it very often because of the reasons you mentioned. I thought there was quite a few women on here who got a few vials of frozen sperm through TESE though. Maybe they can give you some input....

It definitely is a lot to take in :hugs::hugs:


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## MadCatLady

Hi Ladies, just had time to catch up with all the recent posts - I agree with the comments that it is hard to know what is best to do to make DH feel better. In the same week that mine got told it was probably a "no hope" situation, his Grandad died. I really don't know what to do to help! Really want to book a holiday as something to look forward to but daren't as I don't know how long/when things all happen after we get referred to fertility clinic! Mrs G30 - sorry you had a rubbish day, seems like a lot to get your heads round, hope you and DH are ok :hugs:

Personally I think I spend too much time looking stuff up on net now! I have been looking up NOA as they said DH's problem was congenital - and I have a sneaking suspicion that his diagnosis might be Klinefelter's syndrome. He has quite a lot of the markers for it (although not all) - guess we will have to wait till his blood test comes back for that to know for sure - though I think they said that it takes 3 months for results? 

My concern from the reading I've done, is that if it does come back as Klinefelter's, then I know there is a low chance of finding sperm on biopsy, however if they do find sperm you then have to decide whether to go ahead and use his sperm as if you were lucky enough to have a baby and it was a boy then they would be infertile? I think? Does anyone know anymore about this?

So glad this board is here - it is so nice to be able to discuss things with people who understand! Especially as DH is in a "don't want to think/talk about it" phase and yet I can't stop researching on the internet!


----------



## MrsMo

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been around over the last few weeks but I've just read through and caught up with everything that's happened with you all! I wish we all had more answers.

MrsG30 - my DH had the mTESE and was back at work after 2 days but not physical labour so that might explain your doctor's advice. DH had no pain at all from testicles (he complained only about his back being sore after surgery) until a few days later and then it was just a little achey if touched. He's now pretty much back to normal and it's just over 3 weeks since his op. His scar is still a bit red and hard but that will take weeks/months to settle down like all scars.

Things have been pretty hectic here with lots of 'normal life' things keeping us busy on top of all this. Anyway, this week we ordered our sperm. Pretty pricey especially once they add on the extra fees for us being in the UK so we just went for 3 vials since the chances of them getting eggs from me are so low due to my AMH level. We decided the risk of them running out of stock of our chosen donor wasn't enough to buy more just yet. We have thought about buying extra in case we are successful and want a sibling in the future with the same donor but since the chances are pretty crap for our first go, we're not counting our chickens! We don't even know if they will get any eggs from me yet but we can't start treatment until the sperm has arrived.

Has anyone else looked into buying sperm? We found our choice became very limited when we said we were in UK because of the new laws regarding anon donors. There are obviously far fewer donors who are willing to be open and we can only choose from them. Luckily we found one who matched closely to DH as none of the others available were suitable at all! It's cost us around £2000 just for the sperm (we had to pay an extra £1000 to be able to use the donor as they are limited to creating 10 families with each donor) and after spending £2500 on a failed mTESE and with the costs of IVF as well, things are all mounting up to much more than we first thought. It sucks but I just need to remember how lucky we are that although we're now using all the savings we had for our future home, at least we are able to do that. I just hope it's not all a complete waste! I can't believe how much money we're gambling on such low odds but we just want this so badly, we have to try.

I can't imagine life without children and I'm already devastated that they won't be my husband's biological children. I keep telling myself they will be his children as he has been there from the beginning of this entire process and I wouldn't be doing this without him as my husband but I still keep getting upset that the thoughts I used to have of how proud he'd be when I was carrying his child will not be the same. He's never going to look at me and be thinking - you're the mother of my child, you're carrying my baby. If I even get pregnant! We have obviously thought about adoption as well as it may be our only option but we can't face the thought of going through all that just yet. The invasion of the process sounds worse to me than the physical invasion of IVF.

I keep doing this, being all positive and determined this will work (or I couldn't get through it and spend all this money!!) and focussing on the practicalities but then telling myself it's highly unlikely to work and I need to prepare for that and being all pessimistic! It is the ultimate horrific rollercoaster!

Anyway, I'm grateful we have the chance. I was surprised when DH was so quick to say he wanted to go down the donor route. We've talked about it with our parents and they are all behind us and support us in our decision. After reading this forum, we did consider a known donor after initially deciding against it but we decided we didn't want to ask his brother (younger, newly married, no kids yet) and if he and his wife offered we would think about it but we couldn't ask and put them in that position of feeling awkward if they didn't want to be involved. 

Because of my AMH we don't want to wait any longer and decided to just go for it with the donor option. We both said we'd rather have a donor child than wait longer for a better option and end up with none due to my fertility! If all goes to plan, I'll be starting the drugs soon and I'm terrified! We're booked in for a counselling session next week which I hope will help. We now have so much to think about if things DO work as we have to decide how to handle the donor parent thing, etc.

I'm sorry, this has turned into such a rambling post! I guess I've been thinking about all of this a lot while we've had so much other stuff going on and it's all just come blurting out and is probably very incoherent! I'll stop now! :dohh: :blush:


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## deafgal01

Good luck mrsmo!


----------



## Stinas

Hi ladies! 
Havent posted in a while. Hope everyone is closer to getting the answers you need! 
As for me...the twins heartbeats started to slow down and eventually stopped. Had a D&C on wed. Pretty upset about it all, but happy we got a step ahead. Going to do a frozen cycle end of July. Hopefully that brings us our forever baby.


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## Chickensoup85

I'm so sorry Stinas.


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## deafgal01

Oh no stinas! :hugs:


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## awifey

Got our results today, over 3 months since last test. Still zero. Dh is very down this time, more than last time.


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## deafgal01

A wifey, I am sorry to hear that.


----------



## MrsG30

MrsMo- Good Luck and yes weve thought about buying sperm and would deffo be doing that if we didnt have our own donor.

Stinas- that is so sad- so sorry for you- keep tying lady

Awifey- So sorry for your hubby- my hubby is also feeling very low at the mo.

Hi to all the others xxx

AFM- were still trying to come to a decision about what to do :hugs:


----------



## MadCatLady

MrsMo said:


> Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been around over the last few weeks but I've just read through and caught up with everything that's happened with you all! I wish we all had more answers.
> 
> MrsG30 - my DH had the mTESE and was back at work after 2 days but not physical labour so that might explain your doctor's advice. DH had no pain at all from testicles (he complained only about his back being sore after surgery) until a few days later and then it was just a little achey if touched. He's now pretty much back to normal and it's just over 3 weeks since his op. His scar is still a bit red and hard but that will take weeks/months to settle down like all scars.
> 
> Things have been pretty hectic here with lots of 'normal life' things keeping us busy on top of all this. Anyway, this week we ordered our sperm. Pretty pricey especially once they add on the extra fees for us being in the UK so we just went for 3 vials since the chances of them getting eggs from me are so low due to my AMH level. We decided the risk of them running out of stock of our chosen donor wasn't enough to buy more just yet. We have thought about buying extra in case we are successful and want a sibling in the future with the same donor but since the chances are pretty crap for our first go, we're not counting our chickens! We don't even know if they will get any eggs from me yet but we can't start treatment until the sperm has arrived.
> 
> Has anyone else looked into buying sperm? We found our choice became very limited when we said we were in UK because of the new laws regarding anon donors. There are obviously far fewer donors who are willing to be open and we can only choose from them. Luckily we found one who matched closely to DH as none of the others available were suitable at all! It's cost us around £2000 just for the sperm (we had to pay an extra £1000 to be able to use the donor as they are limited to creating 10 families with each donor) and after spending £2500 on a failed mTESE and with the costs of IVF as well, things are all mounting up to much more than we first thought. It sucks but I just need to remember how lucky we are that although we're now using all the savings we had for our future home, at least we are able to do that. I just hope it's not all a complete waste! I can't believe how much money we're gambling on such low odds but we just want this so badly, we have to try.
> 
> I can't imagine life without children and I'm already devastated that they won't be my husband's biological children. I keep telling myself they will be his children as he has been there from the beginning of this entire process and I wouldn't be doing this without him as my husband but I still keep getting upset that the thoughts I used to have of how proud he'd be when I was carrying his child will not be the same. He's never going to look at me and be thinking - you're the mother of my child, you're carrying my baby. If I even get pregnant! We have obviously thought about adoption as well as it may be our only option but we can't face the thought of going through all that just yet. The invasion of the process sounds worse to me than the physical invasion of IVF.
> 
> I keep doing this, being all positive and determined this will work (or I couldn't get through it and spend all this money!!) and focussing on the practicalities but then telling myself it's highly unlikely to work and I need to prepare for that and being all pessimistic! It is the ultimate horrific rollercoaster!
> 
> Anyway, I'm grateful we have the chance. I was surprised when DH was so quick to say he wanted to go down the donor route. We've talked about it with our parents and they are all behind us and support us in our decision. After reading this forum, we did consider a known donor after initially deciding against it but we decided we didn't want to ask his brother (younger, newly married, no kids yet) and if he and his wife offered we would think about it but we couldn't ask and put them in that position of feeling awkward if they didn't want to be involved.
> 
> Because of my AMH we don't want to wait any longer and decided to just go for it with the donor option. We both said we'd rather have a donor child than wait longer for a better option and end up with none due to my fertility! If all goes to plan, I'll be starting the drugs soon and I'm terrified! We're booked in for a counselling session next week which I hope will help. We now have so much to think about if things DO work as we have to decide how to handle the donor parent thing, etc.
> 
> I'm sorry, this has turned into such a rambling post! I guess I've been thinking about all of this a lot while we've had so much other stuff going on and it's all just come blurting out and is probably very incoherent! I'll stop now! :dohh: :blush:

Hi MrsMo! Can I ask re buying sperm? (there's a sentence that I never thought I would be writing!). Did your clinic just give you donors to choose from, or did they give you companies to look at? DH and I are probably going to be going down donor route, (we've been told he is NOA and though they will do a biopsy they are not hopeful of anything being there). We are in UK too. 

I agree it is like some horrible turmoil rollercoaster, I'm starting to worry about my sanity! I really hope that we all get what we hope for. I was reading a piece written by a guy who is a sperm donor and he said "I believe in karma, and I come from a broken home. I think if you have considered having a child enough that you're contemplating insemination, then you have put more thought into it than most parents". I liked that. 

Stinas - I was so sorry to read your news, my heart goes out to you x


----------



## Stinas

awifey - Im sorry you didnt get the results you deserve! This is a hard thing to process. It just takes time. 

Thank you all for your support. It really sucks getting soooo close and having it taken away. I have taken a week off of work to kind of deal with it all in my own way. Im bored, but ok with being alone at home. 
Today sucks big time. I would have been 9 weeks. To top the cake, I went out to get coffee and 3 of the people there told me Happy Mothers Day. Totally not their fault, but it hurt this time around. 
Oh well. What hurts us just makes us stronger right? Eventually we will all get our forever babies, someway, somehow, we will all be happy mommies!


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## Rainbow123

So sorry to hear that Stinas, that's so sad. You will get your babies, I hope you don't have to wait too much longer.
Lots of love :hugs: XXXXXX


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## MoBaby

Hi Ladies, I havent seen this thread in a while but I wanted to say that my new RE clinic is trying DH on clomid and HCG injections to see if we can get some better quality swimmers. RE does not think we can get enough to do IUI with but thinks we can improve what is there and hopefully have better quality ones for better quality embryos.

DH results so far are:
SA max 600,000 per mL (but usually < 100,000/mL)
FSH 13
LH 9
Testosterone around 200

Dr said since he has "mild testicular failure" these drugs may work but if his FSH was any higher (like around 30) then it would be worthless to try. No guarantees but since I have to wait 2 months to get started (waiting for labs, etc) then its worth the try. Doesnt hurt! We will most likely do the TESE at time of ER for me as well. (New dr does less invasive TESE for 1/3 the cost!) Anyone DH try these meds and help?

if this IVF doesnt work (we will do a freeze all; PGD; FET) then we will use the 2 frosties left then move onto donor IUI. But I am hopeful as the new RE is hopeful he can get us pregnant!!


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## Stinas

Mo - that sounds like a great plan!


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## SunUp

Just wanted to pop in and say hello! I am hoping to give some hope to those of you thinking of DS... I am 1 month out from due date and baby boy is looking perfect! 

It is such a hard struggle at first! But now I barely even think of any of it - we are just so excited to have our son here soon! He is still our miracle baby and we can't wait to watch him grow up! 

Big hugs to you lovely ladies! And to the ladies I was going through the roller coaster emotions with, a year ago or so, I have not forgotten you and am still praying for you!

Good luck ladies :) Its hard but azoo does not end up the worst thing in the world (although I totally understand how it feels like it is)


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## deafgal01

Mo- sounds like a good plan.

SunUp- thanks!


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## MrsG30

Ladies

followin on from Sun up's lovely post- my hubby said to me on satirday night 

"Donor sperm might be the hardest decision in the world to think about/make, however if its teh only option its not a difficult decision at all, infact its quite easy"

complex as it sounded, i knew what he meant- if its your only option, you have to take it, its nice to know he was thinking that way. :hugs:


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## Stinas

MrsG30 - I think after a certain point most men come to that conclusion. When we first found out about azoo, DH said donor and adoption was NOT an option....now he basically said the same yours did. 
Thank god.


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## Mikihob

Absolutely right MrsG30 and Stinas. My husband was already to start the adoption process, but after a couple of requests for $5,000 right off the bat and another agency telling us that our age difference is a problem we decided to keep trying all other options. He said no to donor because it wouldn't be his bio kid. Now, after all the bad news and surgeries he may have to face, he has already said that he would want donor sperm because at least the baby would have my DNA. Plus, he would still be there father no matter what. :happydance:


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## MoBaby

Its hard for DH to face the fact of using donor sperm. My DH only agreed after hearing it from a second RE and saying IUI with DS would be much easier and cheaper. But we are going to give him one more shot at a biological child. They just need time to wrap their head around it. I told DH once before its not fair for him to deny me the chance to carry a child b/c it would be ours as we would do it together. He took that to heart.


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## MadCatLady

I agree, my DH is so upset over the thought of having to use DS but right now it might be our only option. He's really worried the child would not think of him as "dad" or want to go find him when he's 18 and not want to know DH anymore. I've tried convincing him it's the same principle in adoption, and that it's being there and loving the child that makes him "dad" but he's really struggling with it :(


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## Mikihob

MadCatLady my DH said that we wouldn't tell our child that the sperm came from a donor. The eggs are mine and the costs and love and joy and fight is ours, the child(ren) are ours and no one else's. We would have a medical history of the donor so we would know the risks and be prepared for what may happen down the road, but they wouldn't have to know. 

What do you think about that??


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## deafgal01

Mad- that is a common worry among anyone who uses donors I think. I pointed out that dh will be one with me thru the whole process, he picks the donors, then he will be with me when they put the swimmers in, thus being present for the start of conception, then the whole pregnancy experience together, the best part will be when the any is born and comes home. They will imitate his behavior and label him dad, no doubt of that.

As for telling the baby, that seems to be personal choice. Some wait til child is old enough to understand and others seem to follow research which says to talk about it in terms a child can understand so that by time they are 18, it is no big deal and child might not be curious about the donors anyways. Have you two seen a counselor yet to help sort your thoughts thru this process?

I finally got an appt with a counselor who specializes in infertility so we meet with her June 3rd, then looks like we might start after my AF in June with iui (sometime after June 15th she would be due I believe). Think the dr wants to see us before that to give us a chance to refresh what will happen and provide info as needed. I will get my blood screened either this week or next week as that is a required thing before we undergo any iui treatments.


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## AuCa

Mine is the same way (donor sperm is not an option), but chances are reasonable that we won't need it hopefully.
For me I just tried to put myself in his shoes - eg, if it was me who had the problem, would I be ok with using donor eggs? And frankly I wouldn't be. Of course I might have also changed my mind on it if this was what we were facing, no idea. Out of this reason I actually told DH that I wouldn't be ok with using donor sperm myself. 
I would go straight to adoption as I don't have a huge desire to carry a pregnancy. I just want a family. But I know that this is very personal and different for everybody and I'm very impressed with the strength you ladies and your partners have :hugs::hugs:


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## MrsG30

everyones thought and views however the same or different are soooooo good to see/hear. Thanks for sharing ladies and hopefully in turn we will all get what we want by whatever method xxxxx


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## deafgal01

I went from not wanting to use donor to deciding to use a known donor. When dh was first diagnosed, he said it was NOT an option. But as time went on and reality faced us, we decided we wanted to experience pregnancy, see me pregnant and all that. So we decided to check out donor banks. I was still uncomfortable and struggling with that concept even though we knew there was no way we would ask his family members. Eventually after four to five months with that, I asked dh what he thought of asking a friend out of state to donate for us to use. He thought about it and said that would be ok. Once this is done, this friend will be "uncle" to our baby so baby grows up knowing who he is, not as a donor but as an uncle until the proper time. Still figuring out how/when we will tell our baby about the donor, but think we will cover that in counseling when we go because I don't know what questions to think up and discuss.

So that is where we are now in our process. It has taken us year and a half to get this far. Provided everything is done on time, we might be undergo our first try at iui around end of June.


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## deafgal01

Auca, I think all of us would have to be strong after going thru this together. It can make or break a marriage depending on the decisions and facts. Not just the decision to use donors but other personal choices too.

I was not raised how to handle this type of situation. I never dreamed this would happen. I sucks that it happened to us all but I have to be honest when I say it has brought me closer to my dh, we have had time that most couples do not have when they are first married because they get surprise pregnancy or fall pregnant fast. The bonus is we won't ever have to worry about preventing... :dohh: what a waste of condoms all these years when we did not want to get knocked up. :rofl: could have enjoyed our honeymoon without the condom. Ya know what I mean?


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## MadCatLady

Yes it is good to hear everyone's opinions - gives you other things to think about! Mikihob - he would love to not tell the child but I don't know how it works as we are in the UK where we can't have an anonymous donor anymore, they all have to be "open" to being found at some point - I just don't know enough about it to know how it works :( He did say that he would rather use DS then adoption though as then it would be half genetically ours. He's so good my nephews and nieces that he would be a fab dad no matter where the child came from! 

Deafgal01, we haven't seen a counsellor yet but hope this might help us. It's all a bit disjointed it would be appear here in the UK! I'm thinking of going to my GP tomorrow to see if there are any other counsellors that might help me and DH at moment as feeling all a bit overwhelmed. Had my HSG today - did not think much about that, lol! As my mum says "time to leave your dignity at the door"!


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## MrsG30

Matcat- you are right about the known donor thing in the UK- however if you buy from abrod it would still be down to you to tell your child.I think the councellor sessions are complusary once you make a DS decision, thats what weve been told anyway. Hope that will help you.

Do you need HSG before you have IUI or IVF/ICSI? is this on top of an US?
xxx

Im sooo greatful for this site


MadCatLady said:


> Yes it is good to hear everyone's opinions - gives you other things to think about! Mikihob - he would love to not tell the child but I don't know how it works as we are in the UK where we can't have an anonymous donor anymore, they all have to be "open" to being found at some point - I just don't know enough about it to know how it works :( He did say that he would rather use DS then adoption though as then it would be half genetically ours. He's so good my nephews and nieces that he would be a fab dad no matter where the child came from!
> 
> Deafgal01, we haven't seen a counsellor yet but hope this might help us. It's all a bit disjointed it would be appear here in the UK! I'm thinking of going to my GP tomorrow to see if there are any other counsellors that might help me and DH at moment as feeling all a bit overwhelmed. Had my HSG today - did not think much about that, lol! As my mum says "time to leave your dignity at the door"!


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## Hopeful Cat

My hubby was definitely against donor sperm when we started this process. But I have a massive urge to experience pregnancy and for other personal reasons I really wanted donor sperm to be the backup over adoption. When we were faced with our quite scary odds of being able to find any of hubby's sperm he started to explore his feelings on the subject. His main worry was that the child wouldn't look like his and would he be able to love that child the same knowing it isn't his. I pointed him in the direction of a website to read ppls stories and he is now quite open to the idea of donor sperm as our backup. Adoption isn't even on our radar at the moment. I don't think either of us will fully understand what we feel about using a donor option until we are faced with it.

My urge to experience pregnancy and give birth made me more open to the use of a donor egg if the problem was with me. I see using donors as a part adoption.

If it comes to donors we've decided we will tell the child.


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## Mikihob

Hopeful Cat said:


> My hubby was definitely against donor sperm when we started this process. But I have a massive urge to experience pregnancy and for other personal reasons I really wanted donor sperm to be the backup over adoption. When we were faced with our quite scary odds of being able to find any of hubby's sperm he started to explore his feelings on the subject. His main worry was that the child wouldn't look like his and would he be able to love that child the same knowing it isn't his. I pointed him in the direction of a website to read ppls stories and he is now quite open to the idea of donor sperm as our backup. Adoption isn't even on our radar at the moment. I don't think either of us will fully understand what we feel about using a donor option until we are faced with it.
> 
> My urge to experience pregnancy and give birth made me more open to the use of a donor egg if the problem was with me. I see using donors as a part adoption.
> 
> If it comes to donors we've decided we will tell the child.

HI! I also know that there are cryobanks that offer facial recognition matches. You can upload a pic of your DH and then they match his picture to pictures of donors to find matches that have the same facial characteristics. It made my DH loads more comfortable with the idea.


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## deafgal01

Thought that service was extra fee if you wanted that facial "matching"? I could be wrong though. Maybe that depends on the bank you are using.


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## MadCatLady

Mikihob said:


> HI! I also know that there are cryobanks that offer facial recognition matches. You can upload a pic of your DH and then they match his picture to pictures of donors to find matches that have the same facial characteristics. It made my DH loads more comfortable with the idea.

Ooo we would pay whatever to have that! That would definitely make him feel better! At least that would potentially take away some of the unknown of the child not looking anything like him (although I personally am really poor at seeing any parents in their children, lol!). 

MrsG30 - They sent me for a HSG as routine? Well that's what they said anyway! Wanting to make sure im fine so that IUI or IVF can go ahead. From results of HSG they said it was "essentially normal" and tubes weren't blocked but she queried whether the dye came out properly from one tube so being sent for an ultra sound incase there is a cyst? She said it was no big deal if there was?! I hope that's the case! Definitely think counselling would be very useful for both of us though so will be good to get! 

I never thought I wanted to experience being pregnant, was going to adopt on my own before I met DH - but I dont know, something about all this happening has made me want to experience it more?


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## deafgal01

Hsg, never needed to get one. I did have ultrasound more than a year ago to check my uterus. They want my blood screened before the iui process. I guess the hsg would come later if after three go at it and no success. No idea.


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## Mikihob

deafgal01 at the Fairfax Cryobank they give you the option to look for facial matching or just input specifications to find a donor. In the checkout process (that is so weird. I never thought I would buy sperm the same way I buy stuff on Amazon) :rofl: they just give you prices for vials and storage, etc. I didn't see an extra charge. Some of my DH's matches were cheaper compared to others. 

MadCatLady some kids don't look like their parents (to me anyway) but sometimes it unmistakeable. My DH has a large nose as he says (I think it's cute) so he was afraid that the kid would have a tiny nose and huge forehead and people would see immediately the baby "wasn't his." With facial matching he was happy because the facial features would resemble DH and then people might even say "your son looks just like you." 

I hope we don't have to go down that road, but if we do....that is going to be one lucky kid. :flower:


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## AuCa

deafgal01 said:


> Hsg, never needed to get one. I did have ultrasound more than a year ago to check my uterus. They want my blood screened before the iui process. I guess the hsg would come later if after three go at it and no success. No idea.

Really?? That surprises me.
I don't think I know a single person who has done IUI or IVF who didn't have to get an HSG done (besides you now :haha:).

All the clinics I know of here require women to get an HSG before starting any ART cycles. But not sure how it is in the UK.


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## deafgal01

The blood screening is required here. Not sure why hsg was not. Maybe it depends on case by case or they are trying to avoid unnecessary expense for me by not forcing me to do that. Who the heck knows? I am curious if other ladies from us experienced same as me.


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## Chickensoup85

Is the hsg where they check for blocked tubes? I asked about needing that (or which ever one that checks tubes) and he looked at me funny then pointed out it doesn't matter if they are blocked as they will retrieve the eggs straight from the ovary anyway.


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## AuCa

Chickensoup85 said:


> Is the hsg where they check for blocked tubes? I asked about needing that (or which ever one that checks tubes) and he looked at me funny then pointed out it doesn't matter if they are blocked as they will retrieve the eggs straight from the ovary anyway.

Yes, it checks for tubal blockages but they can also see uterus shape/if there are fibroids/polyps in the uterus.
I know that it doesn't matter much for IVF if the tubes are blocked or not, but in certain cases it actually does. It was explained to me that certain conditions (eg fluid-filled tubes) are really bad for pregnancy outcome (lead to early miscarriages), and the same goes for problems with the uterus. And apparently this doesn't really get picked up on ultrasounds.
I'm thinking if I spend 15k on in vitro I better rule out any kind of potential problem beforehand. And like I said - our clinic won't do IVF unless the HSG was done, so I had no choice anyway.


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## AuCa

Here is something I found on the internet that explains it:



> Why Does Everyone Need An HSG?
> 
> Most new patients at Shady Grove Fertility will need to have an HSG test before initiating treatment. Sometimes couples with a known male factor infertility, like a low sperm count, wonder why the test is even necessary. Dr. Greenhouse explains, "We often see couples where both partners have a fertility issue, so it's important to check both partners completely. Otherwise, we might spend precious time trying treatments that won't work because we didn't know of a problem in the uterus or fallopian tubes." The HSG test can detect several kinds of issues, such as polyps, fibroids or scarring in the lining of the uterus, and blockages in the fallopian tubes."
> 
> Likewise, patients who are planning to undergo In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) might wonder why a test to look at the fallopian tubes would be necessary, since the IVF process is designed to bypass the fallopian tubes. Dr. Greenhouse says, "Not only is it important to make sure there are no issues in the uterus that could prevent the implantation of an embryo, but there are actually some tubal diseases that have been shown to reduce pregnancy rates when using IVF."

The link is: https://www.shadygrovefertility.com/newsletter/hysterosalpingogram-hsg-vital-diagnostic-tool


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## MadCatLady

That makes sense! I guess for me it's not decided whether it's IUI or IVF yet so would need to make sure i function correctly! But i can see why they could recommend it for everyone. I've had bloods too and now all results are meant to be being sent to fertility clinic so hopefully they'll see us now - however my GP frustratingly doesn't seem to know anything!


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## keziah23

had our 3 month followup today from Hubby's varicocele surgery and there were swimmers. Still very few (less than 2 mil) but that is NOT zero!!! We both let out a shout in the doctor's office, she was laughing! Followup again in 3 months, she said she has hopes it will continue to improve! 
The paperwork now says olgiospermia not azoospermia!!!!!


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## Mikihob

keziah23 said:


> had our 3 month followup today from Hubby's varicocele surgery and there were swimmers. Still very few (less than 2 mil) but that is NOT zero!!! We both let out a shout in the doctor's office, she was laughing! Followup again in 3 months, she said she has hopes it will continue to improve!
> The paperwork now says olgiospermia not azoospermia!!!!!

Hi keziah23. How did you find out that DH needed a varicocele surgery?? We might have to go that route but hadn't found anyone who actually had the surgery. 

Congratulations!! I am so happy for you. You will have a BFP in no time! :happydance:


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## keziah23

we had 2 zero semen analysis and got referred to a urologist who specializes in this kind of thing and she diagnosed it via physical exam and ultra sound. He had repair surgery 3 months ago.


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## MoBaby

I never have had a HSG either.. My new RE says I dont need it either b/c when I had lap done for my fibroid last year the dr put dye in my tube and it was normal. (I have one tube only; other one was removed during my lap b/c it was abnormal and not connected to normal uterus).


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## AuCa

Great news keziah! :happydance::happydance: I was wondering how you were doing, since we haven't heard anything since weeks (or rather months, lol).


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## keziah23

AuCa said:


> Great news keziah! :happydance::happydance: I was wondering how you were doing, since we haven't heard anything since weeks (or rather months, lol).

I know. Sorry. Things have been crazy, crazy in my family. My mom has breast cancer, my uncle had lung cancer another uncle has bladder cancer, I was in the ER with colitis and ruptured ovarian cyst. I've barely been able to think!!!


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## Hopeful Cat

Congrats Keziah! must be great to have some positive news amongst all that sad news!

As for the HSG discussion - I haven't had one done and none of the people that have seen me have even mentioned it :shrug: I'm meeting with the clinic on Monday so might ask then.


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## rdleela

deafgal01 said:


> I finally got an appt with a counselor who specializes in infertility so we meet with her June 3rd, then looks like we might start after my AF in June with iui (sometime after June 15th she would be due I believe). Think the dr wants to see us before that to give us a chance to refresh what will happen and provide info as needed. I will get my blood screened either this week or next week as that is a required thing before we undergo any iui treatments.

Yea!!! Getting the ball rolling!! :thumbup:


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## rdleela

keziah23 said:


> had our 3 month followup today from Hubby's varicocele surgery and there were swimmers. Still very few (less than 2 mil) but that is NOT zero!!! We both let out a shout in the doctor's office, she was laughing! Followup again in 3 months, she said she has hopes it will continue to improve!
> The paperwork now says olgiospermia not azoospermia!!!!!

Congrats! We're in the same boat, just a different surgery was had :)


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## MrsG30

I asked my DR about the test nd it not somethin you automatically have in the UK, only if Dr thinks its needed, i guess its down to cost!!!
I have had ultrasound and lady said my womb and tubes were fine and had all bloodwork so god knows if i will go for further test?!?!?

Can i ask a maybe obvious questions on ovarian reserve or amh??? Im not sure if ive had mine checked, when my bloods came back she said "well your not going though the change of life early" is that what she could have been referring too? I remember bein motified at the time as that have never entered my head, this was before DH azoo diagnose.

Hope your all OK xxx


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## Stinas

keziah23 - AMAZING NEWS!!!!!!! :happydance:

As for the HSG....IT SUCKS!!!!!! It was painful for me, but a year later my doc at the fertility center asked me some questions as to how they did it and shes like, thats the old way, I dont do it like that because its not necessary(the whole clamping thing during HSG). 
so if you need one....I suggest having a doctor do it, not a stupid tech like I got stuck getting.


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## MadCatLady

I have a question - if there is nothing found to be obviously wrong with me, and we are going to have to use a sperm donor - how do they decide between doing IUI or IVF? Because IVF is more successful isnt it? Or is it a cost thing?


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## Mikihob

MadCatLady said:


> I have a question - if there is nothing found to be obviously wrong with me, and we are going to have to use a sperm donor - how do they decide between doing IUI or IVF? Because IVF is more successful isnt it? Or is it a cost thing?

That is a question I have had too. I have read a lot of things but nothing conclusive. I would expect they could use IUI if they didn't expect ovulation problems with you. If there was NO chance of you ovulating on your own they might choose IVF because then your cycles won't matter. I am not positive. I am also curious if anyone else know anything.


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## missMom

Hi everyone..I am a long time lurker of the boards..here is a little into to me. https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/secondary-infertility/1858137-long-time-lurker.html

You ladies are so helpful and its so nice to be around people who understand. No one in our families know about us TTC or our troubles with it. 

Just when I think that I'm strong enough and ok with everything I will see a pregnant lady or a baby and it hurts. I think you guys are the only ones that can understand what i'm talking about.


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## MrsG30

Ladies,

Think IUI is always tried first as for obvious reasons its cheaper. They can overide your ovulation for IUI too.
think in the UK, we get 6 goes free, 3 unmedicated, then 3 medicated.or 6 medicated if you have ovulation issues.

Hope that helps.

xx :hugs:


MadCatLady said:


> I have a question - if there is nothing found to be obviously wrong with me, and we are going to have to use a sperm donor - how do they decide between doing IUI or IVF? Because IVF is more successful isnt it? Or is it a cost thing?




Mikihob said:


> MadCatLady said:
> 
> 
> I have a question - if there is nothing found to be obviously wrong with me, and we are going to have to use a sperm donor - how do they decide between doing IUI or IVF? Because IVF is more successful isnt it? Or is it a cost thing?
> 
> That is a question I have had too. I have read a lot of things but nothing conclusive. I would expect they could use IUI if they didn't expect ovulation problems with you. If there was NO chance of you ovulating on your own they might choose IVF because then your cycles won't matter. I am not positive. I am also curious if anyone else know anything.Click to expand...


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## Mikihob

I totally understand missMom. I saw two baby pic updates, a newborn and two pregnancy posts on Facebook in barely 5 minutes. Teared up after. Wanted to throw my phone out my window (it's a closed window).


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## deafgal01

MissMom it took me a very long time to be able to not get so mad or upset at anything baby related. Took me two years to bring myself up for attending baby showers again. You will get there, it just takes time and lots of answers. :hugs: def can relate.


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## MadCatLady

missMom said:


> Hi everyone..I am a long time lurker of the boards..here is a little into to me. https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/secondary-infertility/1858137-long-time-lurker.html
> 
> You ladies are so helpful and its so nice to be around people who understand. No one in our families know about us TTC or our troubles with it.
> 
> Just when I think that I'm strong enough and ok with everything I will see a pregnant lady or a baby and it hurts. I think you guys are the only ones that can understand what i'm talking about.

MissMom, hi! Yes it's nice to be around people who understand how this all feels, and to able to chat freely and ask questions that you cant talk to anyone else about. Totally understand where you're coming from re seeing babies etc - my job is working with kids from newborn to 18 years - used to love it but currently finding it quite difficult. Welcome MissMom!


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## Rainbow123

Just an update from me!
It turns out DH has high FSH (14.8 when normal is between 1-14), which confirms it's NOA. After filling out the usual forms and having the examination, the FS came in with the other doctor. After explaining NOA, she went straight into saying about donor sperm, as though mTESE wasn't even an option! She really was doing the hard sell on the donor sperm option! We let her say everything she wanted to tell us about donor sperm, then I asked about mTESE as I'd researched this was an option for men with NOA. She said that we wouldn't be eligible for it on the NHS, so I mentioned that it was something Dr Ramsay does in London for all NOA patients. She then said she would refer us to a urologist in Leeds who specialised in infertility in men, and that will take 2-3 months to get an appointment, then a possible 2 years to have the procedure! If he says there's a good chance then we go with the mTESE on the NHS, but if he doesn't think it's a great idea then apparently we wouldn't get it! It's RUBBISH! Anyhoo, if we go donor route we get 6 IUIs (3 unmedicated, then 3 medicated), then only 1 IVF. After that we would have to pay £4000 per cycle of IVF! We also wouldn't get NHS to cover a second baby, so that will have to be saved up for, if we get pregnant with number 1 baby that is!
To be honest, we were in there over an hour, got to ask the FS loads of questions and she didn't rush us at all. I came out feeling quite a lot more positive, thinking I could go with donor without being too stressed about it. DH came out feeling more stressed and is hoping for a positive appointment with urologist in Leeds. To be honest, I think the high FSH levels shows it's not great, so I'm not getting my hopes up for mTESE, but I think it's something DH needs to do and I will support him all the way.
Soooo... just wondering when our appointment is going to come through! I've booked an HSG scan for me on the 31st of May. We've both got to go for blood tests. DH has to get his so that they can see what blood type he is for if we go the donor route.. So much to take in, we're both feeling a bit numb!
Anyhoo, I completely agree MissMom, it's so difficult seeing babies and pregnant women all over Facebook and everywhere you go! But it makes it so much easier to be able to come on here to vent and read you lovely ladies' experiences. I've found it's a really helpful way of starting a conversation about it with DH as I can test the water a bit by saying "such and such is doing this.." and then compare it to ourselves.

XXX


----------



## Hopeful Cat

god sometimes I wish we were back in the UK. its the fault of the friggin UK NHS that my hubby and I are in this mess and we are having to pay for all our infertility treatment out of our own pocket! just want to call people from the NHS and yell at them to pay our expenses!


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## MadCatLady

Hi Rainbow 123 - we sound in very similar positions except we are going to Sheffield and not Leeds. It's interesting that we def go IUI then IVF, I was wondering about that as it kind of worries me that potentially going to have to spend another year doing IUI which has quite a low success rate and then I'll be over 35 which puts you in the "less successful" bracket for IVF!! Aarghh! 

That is really pants that they might not even do an mTESE or that it could take two years! How can they justify that?! My DH has FSH of 33 so if they don't think it's worth doing on someone with FSH of 14 there is not much hope for DH! What frustrated me more is that you can't just pay for something to hurry up process and do rest on NHS, it's an all or nothing system which is so inflexible! I don't think they understand that we have all been waiting a long time already and don't really want this to go on and on and on even more!


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## MrsG30

Emma- I've answered your message so you know my thoughts but FSH of 148 i would be looking into, we got offered mtese with fsh of 35.1. Hopefully when you get to Leeds it will be more positive

MatCat- You ever know, they offered us it, however they did say the wait is about 12 month, and it has to be done with a fresh icsi cycle cos the chances of them being able to freeze anything from a NOA man are so small, they told me the 6 IUI'S we would try first would be monthly then if thy all fail straight onto IVF. It was like thy were asking u to choose time frame or Hubby being a biological Dad!!!They werent as our appointment was very informative and helped us make a decision but i felt that way.

xxx



MadCatLady said:


> Hi Rainbow 123 - we sound in very similar positions except we are going to Sheffield and not Leeds. It's interesting that we def go IUI then IVF, I was wondering about that as it kind of worries me that potentially going to have to spend another year doing IUI which has quite a low success rate and then I'll be over 35 which puts you in the "less successful" bracket for IVF!! Aarghh!
> 
> That is really pants that they might not even do an mTESE or that it could take two years! How can they justify that?! My DH has FSH of 33 so if they don't think it's worth doing on someone with FSH of 14 there is not much hope for DH! What frustrated me more is that you can't just pay for something to hurry up process and do rest on NHS, it's an all or nothing system which is so inflexible! I don't think they understand that we have all been waiting a long time already and don't really want this to go on and on and on even more!


----------



## tulip11

Hi we got two SA bottles via post for sperm analysis but I am wondering why did they send us two instead of one ?


----------



## Rainbow123

MadCatLady said:


> Hi Rainbow 123 - we sound in very similar positions except we are going to Sheffield and not Leeds. It's interesting that we def go IUI then IVF, I was wondering about that as it kind of worries me that potentially going to have to spend another year doing IUI which has quite a low success rate and then I'll be over 35 which puts you in the "less successful" bracket for IVF!! Aarghh!
> 
> That is really pants that they might not even do an mTESE or that it could take two years! How can they justify that?! My DH has FSH of 33 so if they don't think it's worth doing on someone with FSH of 14 there is not much hope for DH! What frustrated me more is that you can't just pay for something to hurry up process and do rest on NHS, it's an all or nothing system which is so inflexible! I don't think they understand that we have all been waiting a long time already and don't really want this to go on and on and on even more!

How many chances do you get at IVF MadCatLady? We were told 50% chance of one of the 6 IUIs would result in pregnancy. It is rubbish that everything takes so long. Especially when I know that I want at least 2 children (will have to pay for number 2) but I suppose as number 2 will be paid for by us it will probably be faster. Wouldn't your IUIs be done every month? So hopefully you would have them done over 6 months, then the next month surely you would go onto IVF? I'm not really sure, but that would make sense! How long until you're 35? I'm sure it won't make too much difference but I know what you mean about being in the 'bracket'. It worries me too! I always thought I'd have my babies by the time I'm 30, but I've been learning recently that even though I've planned things out it won't necessarily go the way I want it to! Doh!
I really don't know an awful lot about FSH levels, but I was surprised that DH's was only a tiny bit over the normal and they were talking about it like it was very high. I wish we could just ask the urologist about it now, get either a go ahead or told it's not likely, as then we could move on either way. I wouldn't mind waiting a little while for the procedures if at least we knew which road we are going to have to go down! It really is all down to what urologist says in 2-3 months. 33 isn't that dissimilar to MrsG30's hubby, and he was given a 40/50% chance of finding sperm. Do you know the reason for DH's azoo?
XXXXX


----------



## Rainbow123

tulip11 said:


> Hi we got two SA bottles via post for sperm analysis but I am wondering why did they send us two instead of one ?

My DH had to do 2 SA, about 1 month apart. But surely your DH has already done one? Are they being requested by a different doctor?
X


----------



## Rainbow123

:wacko: Just found this research:
High serum FSH levels in men with nonobstructive azoospermia does not affect success of microdissection testicular sperm extraction.
RESULT(S):Testicular sperm were successfully retrieved in 60% of the men. Sperm retrieval rates in the groups of men with FSH values 15-30, 31-45, and >45 IU/mL was 60%, 67%, and 60% respectively; this was higher than the group of men with FSH < 15 (51%). Of those men who had sperm retrieved, clinical pregnancy and live birth rates were similar in the four groups (46%, 50%, 52%, 46% and 38%, 45%, 44%, 36%, respectively).
CONCLUSION(S):
The chances of sperm retrieval using micro-TESE is just as common, if not better for men with elevated FSH levels than for men with lower FSH. Micro-TESE results appear to differ from earlier series that report low retrieval rates with random biopsies for men with elevated FSH. High FSH is not a contraindication for micro-TESE.
Hmmmm....


----------



## MadCatLady

Hi Rainbow 123 - interesting piece of research! If the IUI's really happen every month then at least it would be done quite quickly? I am 34 in three days time so feel I have 12 months before my fertility starts plummeting, lol! (I know that might not really be the case but you can't escape all the stats that give 35 as the age where it starts going downhill! - makes me paranoid, esp as we too wanted at least two kids!). Think the frustrating bit is just not knowing when we'll get seen by Sheffield - my GP referred us but they wrote back asking for several other tests to be done first, these are done but when I spoke to the GP the other day she didn't know what was happening and if the results had gone to Sheffield or not! Useful!

Don't know yet what the problem is with DH - they said congenital and little chance of there being anything on biopsy, and looking stuff up I will not be surprised if they come back with Klinefelter's syndrome as he has a lot of markers for it - but that is totally me jumping to conclusions! DH is keen for biopsy/mTESE as he obviously would want a kid to be genetically his no matter how we would have to get it! 

MrsG30 - I don't think Drs think at all how they phrase things - not good to imply choose time frame or biological child! I can't understand how the wait for a test can be that long - just ridiculous that hospitals think that is acceptable :(


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## tulip11

Hi Rainbow123 
Well my hubby had 2 SA ordered by GP initially. But after the first appointment with urologist he ordered SA again and thus we got 2 bottles via post ordered by same doctor.


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## BrandyRelax

MrsG30 said:


> I asked my DR about the test nd it not somethin you automatically have in the UK, only if Dr thinks its needed, i guess its down to cost!!!
> I have had ultrasound and lady said my womb and tubes were fine and had all bloodwork so god knows if i will go for further test?!?!?
> 
> Can i ask a maybe obvious questions on ovarian reserve or amh??? Im not sure if ive had mine checked, when my bloods came back she said "well your not going though the change of life early" is that what she could have been referring too? I remember bein motified at the time as that have never entered my head, this was before DH azoo diagnose.
> 
> Hope your all OK xxx

I'm not sure if anyone answered your AMH question, but from my experience, AMH speaks to the egg quality and quantity. If he's talking about "the change", it means that your FSH isn't too high. When you start going through the change, FSH gets really high. So you've likely not had your AMH tested. I'm from Canada, and we have to pay to do the AMH test, because it's not something that health care covers (but then we get no IUI or IVF free either).

Brandy


----------



## Mikihob

Hi ladies...status update. 

DH's SA came back zero for the fourth time. We have an appointment made for May 29th with a urologist to check for a varicocele. My OB/GYN is also working on getting an appointment with an andrologist in Seattle and get DH setup for a biopsy. We have chosen to go the urologist route first because it doesn't require travel and will be less intensive for Dh (supposedly). I am hoping that we can DH a ultrasound before the appointment, but I think we have to wait until the urologist sees him, we will see.

I hope that it's a varicocele and we can fix it and get sperm production back. The lack of testosterone is REALLY getting to DH and me. Now we are waiting again. Even if he has a varicocele we have to wait for the correction procedure and then three months after that to see if any improvement in his SA. I keep thinking that it's going to be another six months and that we may have to do the biopsy anyway. 

I am kinda of feeling good because we have the urologist appointment but also terribly sad because the length of time to getting pregnant is even longer PLUS DH has ZERO sex drive. :cry:


----------



## MrsMo

I started my drugs today, I'm on Norethisterone for nearly 2 weeks (due to my low AMH) before Prostap and then the daily injections. 

I'm nervous, excited and terrified it won't work! We're very realistic about the fact they might not get any eggs and this could all be cancelled after my first scan to assess follicles on 12th June. If we get eggs, we've been told our chances spring way back up as the quality is likely to be good (low AMH just means chance of low quantity) due to my age so fingers crossed for eggs!! 

Regarding some of the points about telling the child about DS (I've just been catching up on the last week of forum!), we have been doing research into this which was backed up by what our counsellor said last week. Basically it makes for a better family life if you're open and honest from the very beginning. There's LOTS of info about this on the DCN website which was founded by parents who used DS over 20 yrs ago and their experiences (and comments from their children) are very positive and very much towards not keeping secrets for many reasons. It's very interesting and helpful to read, in particular this letter. We've found it very useful and have decided to bring it up from at latest, the age of 3 so it's just something that's always been the case. I was so relieved when DH brought this up as he looked into it first as I hated the thought of living a lie and not knowing how to react in certain situations.


----------



## MrsMo

MadCatLady said:


> Hi MrsMo! Can I ask re buying sperm? (there's a sentence that I never thought I would be writing!). Did your clinic just give you donors to choose from, or did they give you companies to look at? DH and I are probably going to be going down donor route, (we've been told he is NOA and though they will do a biopsy they are not hopeful of anything being there). We are in UK too.
> 
> I agree it is like some horrible turmoil rollercoaster, I'm starting to worry about my sanity! I really hope that we all get what we hope for. I was reading a piece written by a guy who is a sperm donor and he said "I believe in karma, and I come from a broken home. I think if you have considered having a child enough that you're contemplating insemination, then you have put more thought into it than most parents". I liked that.
> 
> Stinas - I was so sorry to read your news, my heart goes out to you x

Hi MCL, I wrote a reply to this but it doesn't seem to have worked! Basically I said that our clinic had a few donors (much less than years ago as the new regulations re: anonymity mean there are fewer donors) but we had very specific characteristics we wanted to match so went to the European Sperm Bank for better choice. Definitely put in the UK before you search as it will change how many are available for the same reasons (some places can still use anon donors!). We were able to get lots of information using a password from our clinic without having to pay the extra fees. There is LOTS of info including medical and personal. 

We were lucky and found one donor who matched pretty closely but due to my low AMH, we just bought 3 vials (didn't want to waste hundreds of pounds in case we don't get any eggs!). Hopefully they won't sell out if we have to use all 3 vials for lots of cycles and we can get more if lucky and can try for a sibling in future using the same donor. No point counting our chickens though as it was expensive enough and we might never use the ones have!


----------



## MoBaby

mikihob: the low sex drive is probably due to low testosterone. Hopefully the urologist can fix it easily with some injections (not testosterone though). Did they check that? I just see in your sig LH/FSH/Prolactin. If its just low testosterone its usually an easy fix (HCG injections alone or paired with other meds). I hope the urologist has some answers!


----------



## Rainbow123

MrsMo said:


> I started my drugs today, I'm on Norethisterone for nearly 2 weeks (due to my low AMH) before Prostap and then the daily injections.
> 
> I'm nervous, excited and terrified it won't work! We're very realistic about the fact they might not get any eggs and this could all be cancelled after my first scan to assess follicles on 12th June. If we get eggs, we've been told our chances spring way back up as the quality is likely to be good (low AMH just means chance of low quantity) due to my age so fingers crossed for eggs!!
> 
> Regarding some of the points about telling the child about DS (I've just been catching up on the last week of forum!), we have been doing research into this which was backed up by what our counsellor said last week. Basically it makes for a better family life if you're open and honest from the very beginning. There's LOTS of info about this on the DCN website which was founded by parents who used DS over 20 yrs ago and their experiences (and comments from their children) are very positive and very much towards not keeping secrets for many reasons. It's very interesting and helpful to read, in particular this letter. We've found it very useful and have decided to bring it up from at latest, the age of 3 so it's just something that's always been the case. I was so relieved when DH brought this up as he looked into it first as I hated the thought of living a lie and not knowing how to react in certain situations.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you MrsMo!
Thank you very much for the web links, will definitely have a look at those!
XXXXX


----------



## Rainbow123

Hope your appointment goes well tomorrow MoBaby :hugs:
XXX


----------



## Mikihob

MoBaby said:


> mikihob: the low sex drive is probably due to low testosterone. Hopefully the urologist can fix it easily with some injections (not testosterone though). Did they check that? I just see in your sig LH/FSH/Prolactin. If its just low testosterone its usually an easy fix (HCG injections alone or paired with other meds). I hope the urologist has some answers!

HI MoBaby..it's def the testosterone. Ever since stopping it the sex drive has gone COMPLETELY. I had talked to my doc about HCG but we hadn't been given the option. I think when we are in with the urologist we will ask about the sex drive and see if he has any options available. Being in Alaska, there are tons of things that we cannot do or don't have access to. It's pretty lame. Thanks for advice. I hadn't even thought of asking the urologist. :flower:


----------



## MoBaby

So your husband took testosterone supplement?

IF this is the case then this is why he has no sperm and HCG injections almost always restores spermatogenesis in this population. Ask about the HCG shots for sure. Testosterone supplements makes the body think it is producing it and it shuts down the factory completely. Its like birth control for men. And then the HCG helps the men to restore what the testosterone did.


----------



## Mikihob

MoBaby said:


> So your husband took testosterone supplement?
> 
> IF this is the case then this is why he has no sperm and HCG injections almost always restores spermatogenesis in this population. Ask about the HCG shots for sure. Testosterone supplements makes the body think it is producing it and it shuts down the factory completely. Its like birth control for men. And then the HCG helps the men to restore what the testosterone did.

Yes. He took testosterone injections for about three years. We stopped them in November of 2012 because we were informed they were the cause of the zero sperm. I will def ask about HCG. I appreciate your advice. :hugs:


----------



## MadCatLady

Aarghh I finally get DH to agree to talk to some other men in same position (as we do here!) but I can't find any forums that have anyone posting anywhere near recently! Anyone know of any?


----------



## MoBaby

Hcg will fix your problems! My re just told me and dh if his problems were just due to testosterone injections then he could fix him easily. Re said these patients almost always have sperm restored to normal. They are the cause of zero sperm but if the dr doesn't give anything to restart the production than he will keep having none.


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## MrsG30

hows everyone doing???
how ur app go mobaby? xxx


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## deafgal01

I had a couple rough past two days. The clinic I visited last year is not seeing me until June 20th and could not give info over the phone regarding protocols I need to know for proceeding with a known donor. So I called a different fertility clinic, they can see me June 3rd so I am going to see what they say. Apparently if we use known donor, they follow protocols, one of which is freeze sample for 6 months and checking how it does when it thaws out after that point. I understand they have to follow rules and stuff but it is my own choice whether to take such a risk with fresh, is it not? I am hoping I go in June 3 and find they will do fresh sample if I sign a waiver or something as long I permit them to still follow the protocols of freezing whatever sample is left (that is if the sa says friend's production is fine). Otherwise I face a possible "postponing" of iui treatment, not because of money which I have saved enough of.

Thank God I have counseling session on June 3rd.


----------



## MrsG30

DEAFGAL- Sorry you had a few bad days.
Our clinic told me from outset that if we use known donor they had to have the routine tests a normal "unknown" donor would, when i protested to the whole 6 month quantine thing they said they will allow us to stipulate that we are happy for some tests not to be done but the freeze and thaw process would have to go ahead and that would take about 4 month instead of the standard 6-8.I was tolf fresh is a no go for IUI as thy only administer washed sperm for IUI. Sorry you werent told this earlier.

Everything just takes sooooooooooooo long. xxxx


deafgal01 said:


> I had a couple rough past two days. The clinic I visited last year is not seeing me until June 20th and could not give info over the phone regarding protocols I need to know for proceeding with a known donor. So I called a different fertility clinic, they can see me June 3rd so I am going to see what they say. Apparently if we use known donor, they follow protocols, one of which is freeze sample for 6 months and checking how it does when it thaws out after that point. I understand they have to follow rules and stuff but it is my own choice whether to take such a risk with fresh, is it not? I am hoping I go in June 3 and find they will do fresh sample if I sign a waiver or something as long I permit them to still follow the protocols of freezing whatever sample is left (that is if the sa says friend's production is fine). Otherwise I face a possible "postponing" of iui treatment, not because of money which I have saved enough of.
> 
> Thank God I have counseling session on June 3rd.


----------



## MoBaby

MrsG30 said:


> hows everyone doing???
> how ur app go mobaby? xxx

Hey Thanks for asking! 

I think for now we are going to do the FET with my current RE. Even though we had said we were going to go with the new RE we met and do IVF/ICSI/TESE/PGS, after talking to my RE yesterday, whom I adore and trust his opinion 100%, we decided its best to use the 2 frosties first. My RE is going to do a hysteroscopy on June 10thish to make sure everything is okay in there and then do an endometrial scratch biopsy which when done the cycle before has shown to greatly improve the outcome in patients with multiple failed cycles. We would transfer 2 blasts this time (only have 2 left :( ) and pray for a positive.
I was so frustrated with the clinic when I called last time that the RE nurse thought I was mad at her or something! I feel bad. 

The new RE drew some miscarriage blood work and genetic testing which I am still waiting for. Should have that back very soon (next week or so). So if that shows anything I will show my current RE and we can go from there with the FET. DH is supposed to have SA with them in 2.5 weeks so he will probably do that to see if the meds have helped at all (it really takes 3 months to see a difference but should see some action at 1). If no change then we stop the meds. If so DH will stay on them until we are pg or move on to DIUI.

I spoke to another RE tonight (one of DH friend's fathers) and he said my current RE is an excellent RE. He also said that if we do a full IVF cycle to have DH evaluated by an andrologist to see if any solution and also to see if the sperm is why we have chemicals/miscarriages. Apparently the andrologists can do special tests to see those types of things. So I may have DH call one that this RE recommended. This RE feels 100% its a sperm quality issue and not my eggs or me. DH is open to DIUI now so IDK...Its a cheaper option for sure but I think we would see the andrologist first before deciding that 100%.


----------



## MrsG30

Mo
all sounds very promising and good you have a plan in place xxx


MoBaby said:


> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> hows everyone doing???
> how ur app go mobaby? xxx
> 
> Hey Thanks for asking!
> 
> I think for now we are going to do the FET with my current RE. Even though we had said we were going to go with the new RE we met and do IVF/ICSI/TESE/PGS, after talking to my RE yesterday, whom I adore and trust his opinion 100%, we decided its best to use the 2 frosties first. My RE is going to do a hysteroscopy on June 10thish to make sure everything is okay in there and then do an endometrial scratch biopsy which when done the cycle before has shown to greatly improve the outcome in patients with multiple failed cycles. We would transfer 2 blasts this time (only have 2 left :( ) and pray for a positive.
> I was so frustrated with the clinic when I called last time that the RE nurse thought I was mad at her or something! I feel bad.
> 
> The new RE drew some miscarriage blood work and genetic testing which I am still waiting for. Should have that back very soon (next week or so). So if that shows anything I will show my current RE and we can go from there with the FET. DH is supposed to have SA with them in 2.5 weeks so he will probably do that to see if the meds have helped at all (it really takes 3 months to see a difference but should see some action at 1). If no change then we stop the meds. If so DH will stay on them until we are pg or move on to DIUI.
> 
> I spoke to another RE tonight (one of DH friend's fathers) and he said my current RE is an excellent RE. He also said that if we do a full IVF cycle to have DH evaluated by an andrologist to see if any solution and also to see if the sperm is why we have chemicals/miscarriages. Apparently the andrologists can do special tests to see those types of things. So I may have DH call one that this RE recommended. This RE feels 100% its a sperm quality issue and not my eggs or me. DH is open to DIUI now so IDK...Its a cheaper option for sure but I think we would see the andrologist first before deciding that 100%.Click to expand...


----------



## Rainbow123

Does anyone know whether when they do mTESE on the NHS they will use any sperm they find straight away in ICSI, or do they freeze it and then use those that survive in ICSI when they thaw them? Just trying to figure out what the options will be once we get our urologist appointment in what feels like a million years time! :wacko:


----------



## MrsG30

They don't freeze it hun, apparently its very rarely good enough to freeze, our urlogist said only 3 couples in 30 year career he has seen. They run the MTESE with a fresh cycle of ICSI. If they get more than 1 to fertilize then they will freeze the remaining embryo's but nothing else. xxx
They like you to have your back up in place incase its not a success. 


Rainbow123 said:


> Does anyone know whether when they do mTESE on the NHS they will use any sperm they find straight away in ICSI, or do they freeze it and then use those that survive in ICSI when they thaw them? Just trying to figure out what the options will be once we get our urologist appointment in what feels like a million years time! :wacko:


----------



## MrsMo

MrsG30 said:


> They don't freeze it hun, apparently its very rarely good enough to freeze, our urlogist said only 3 couples in 30 year career he has seen. They run the MTESE with a fresh cycle of ICSI. If they get more than 1 to fertilize then they will freeze the remaining embryo's but nothing else. xxx
> They like you to have your back up in place incase its not a success.

When we had mTese the plan was to freeze anything they found (this was not NHS). We were never told to get back up in place as the mTese was to find out if there was any sperm and we hoped we wouldn't need DS if it went well. It's a pretty expensive thing to have donor sperm ready just in case as we've now spent about £2000 on sperm. We were never told that chances of frozen/defrosted sperm working were so low. Maybe it doesn't matter having DS ready on NHS, maybe have different stock which isn't wasted if not used but ours is not returnable.


----------



## BrandyRelax

Hi All,

Just got back from the urologist today.

My hubby's been on HCG for a month, 3000 IUI, 3 times per week. (and super expensive, I might add)

The bloodtest results were encouraging - LH and FSH were significantly lower (although, the doctor didn't comment if it was for sure in the normal range), and testosterone was higher (previously he was on the low end of normal for testosterone).

I want to say FSH was 14 and LH was 4... where it used to be 39 and 24 (or something like that (sorry the numbers aren't more accurate).

Next week he'll go for a semen analysis, and if things show up, I'll update.

Brandy


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## Hopeful Cat

Good luck Brandy. Hope it's good news at the next SA


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## Chickensoup85

Good luck Brandy!

When my husband had his mTESE done, I asked about whether a fresh cycle with donor back up was a better idea and he said no (this wasn't on the nhs). I then asked about the sperm being less likely to fertilise and he didn't seem to think it would make a difference as they would only freeze any of good enough quality to fertilise after freezing anyway.

In hindsight, I was asking the wrong questions as I didn't ask the likelihood of the sperm actually surviving the thaw and it's only just occurred to me that, had they found sperm which would have been good enough to fertilise but not freeze, we would have lost out big time. (We were exceptionally lucky, they did find enough motile sperm to freeze 5 straws.)

Everything is such a gamble with this awful diagnosis.

This is just my experience though and, although we started with the same urologist on the nhs, we moved over to his private practise as we were too young for funding.


----------



## Mercury1

Hi, 

Haven't been here in ages, but really feel for you all. It's a hideous journey, and I've been very lucky - details in my signature.

Just wanted to say to Rainbow - the NHS won't do ICSI with fresh sperm from an mTESE as means having his surgery synchronised with your egg collection. Mr Ramsay explained that this is difficult to arrange, as EC is unpredictable, and you need to have a urologist who can be on standby to operate which the NHS can't accommodate. Especially as there is no evidence that fresh is better than frozen (but there's no evidence that it's not either). Our options were either mTESE on the NHS with anything found being frozen and used when we got to the top of the IVF waiting list, or a private synchronised cycle. It's possible that freezing then thawing acts as a 'natural selection' in that anything that doesn't survive the thaw wouldn't have made a baby anyway. Personally, I felt that this may be true for sperm from ejaculate, but if immature testicular sperm was found then maybe this wouldn't apply. I do know if people who've had success with frozen though, so a very personal choice!

Good luck on all your journeys.


----------



## MrsG30

all

I've just spoken to our FC, esp after all our responses differ, I've been told if my hubby has MTESE on NHS it will coincide with a fresh ICSI cycle, this is on the NHS in the North east, he did say diff clinics use diff procedures he said he wouldn't do a MTESE without a ICSI cycle as any male with "low" or "on the low" side testosterone (which my hubby has) he wouldn't like to repeat the surgery as it can cause this to lower and cause further problems, so there is no way hes going in just "for a look" as he put it. Again he told me the chances of immature sperm surviving the thaw or so minimal he strongly suggests not to chance it.

Now im very confused?!?!?!? why cant all places do the same thing xxx


----------



## Dancergirl

Well, here I am again. I was part of this forum in the past and was blessed with my miracle child thru IUI using donor sperm. Now I find myself starting the process all over again as we try to #2. Anyone else here using donor sperm? And no, I didn't go thru all the previous posts, too many to look thru. I am not sure if I am ready to start the emotional roller coaster that infertility brings.


----------



## loobylou_01

I haven't updated on here for ages but just wanted to let u know about our 2nd miracle baby, Imogen who was born on 27th April. She was conceived following FET last August. We have been very lucky since the dark days of diagnosis. To all you ladies currently going through this nightmare, good luck and it is definitely worth all the heartache x x x


----------



## Dancergirl

That is wonderful news Loobylou! Congratulations!


----------



## MrsG30

Dancer girl- Were just about to sort the process with DS- next appointment is 2/7, we are using a known donor- just waiting on treatment plan. xx


----------



## MoBaby

Congrats!


----------



## deafgal01

Dancer- I'm hoping to use a known donor. Still have to do the required tests and stuff before we know for sure, but yeah back up plan would be use donor sperm from a sperm bank if that falls through.

By the way- congrats Loo- glad you have your little bundle of joy!


----------



## MrsG30

exactly the same plan here x


deafgal01 said:


> Dancer- I'm hoping to use a known donor. Still have to do the required tests and stuff before we know for sure, but yeah back up plan would be use donor sperm from a sperm bank if that falls through.
> 
> By the way- congrats Loo- glad you have your little bundle of joy!


----------



## oldnavygirl

MrsG30 said:


> exactly the same plan here x
> 
> 
> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> Dancer- I'm hoping to use a known donor. Still have to do the required tests and stuff before we know for sure, but yeah back up plan would be use donor sperm from a sperm bank if that falls through.
> 
> By the way- congrats Loo- glad you have your little bundle of joy!Click to expand...

Us too -- we've just confirmed our known donor and it was a roller coaster trying to find him! Getting ready to try our first cycle in August!!


----------



## melly2

Dancergirl said:


> Well, here I am again. I was part of this forum in the past and was blessed with my miracle child thru IUI using donor sperm. Now I find myself starting the process all over again as we try to #2. Anyone else here using donor sperm? And no, I didn't go thru all the previous posts, too many to look thru. I am not sure if I am ready to start the emotional roller coaster that infertility brings.

Hello. My husband and I are seriously considering doing IUI with donor sperm starting in August. His count is simply too low after cancer. He is very open to the idea, but we're trying to figure out if this happens how or if to tell the family? That's really the hardest part for us.


----------



## MadCatLady

Hi! It sounds like there are a few plans afoot? Hope they all are successful! Is it more usual that known donors are used? Just wondering given that several posters on this site have that as their plan? DH and I have vaguely discussing DS and known/not known but not getting far :( Congrats Loobylou too!


----------



## deafgal01

Melly, I don't plan to tell many that we used donor. Less chance of kid finding out from others unless we tell the kid ourselves which we will in time. It is hard enough to digest so the fewer people who know, the better for us at this time.


----------



## oldnavygirl

MadCatLady said:


> Hi! It sounds like there are a few plans afoot? Hope they all are successful! Is it more usual that known donors are used? Just wondering given that several posters on this site have that as their plan? DH and I have vaguely discussing DS and known/not known but not getting far :( Congrats Loobylou too!

We had the same discussion, but we've decided to go with a known donor -- the process so far has been a lot better than we thought -- we haven't gotten to the actual AI part yet, that's planned for August, but finding him was an experience!


----------



## MrsG30

we wont be telling anyone other than the actual donor his wife and our parents, lik it was said above my views are the less people that know the better, not just or the childs sake but for my hubbys xxx


----------



## rdleela

Dancergirl and loobylou_01, THANK-YOU for coming back and posting! Hope-inspiring posts are always welcome and needed, to keep us focused on not giving up and coming out the other end with our baby(ies). :hugs:


----------



## melly2

rdleela said:


> Dancergirl and loobylou_01, THANK-YOU for coming back and posting! Hope-inspiring posts are always welcome and needed, to keep us focused on not giving up and coming out the other end with our baby(ies). :hugs:

Hello, I noticed in your signature that you are going to try IUI with 5 million. Our doctor said that we had to have at least 10 million. I guess you FS will allow you do it with 5 million? Just curious.


----------



## rdleela

melly2 said:


> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> Dancergirl and loobylou_01, THANK-YOU for coming back and posting! Hope-inspiring posts are always welcome and needed, to keep us focused on not giving up and coming out the other end with our baby(ies). :hugs:
> 
> Hello, I noticed in your signature that you are going to try IUI with 5 million. Our doctor said that we had to have at least 10 million. I guess you FS will allow you do it with 5 million? Just curious.Click to expand...

Yep, he is going to allow us to try with 5 million, but he did tell us he'd prefer we get to 10 million. We have good motility, negative for ASA's (a new thing I just learned about, sperm antibodies, make sure to ask if your DH was tested for those! It can be common after a surgery like my DH had.) Things on my end are 100% fine, so maybe that's why he's feeling that way about us? He is going to put me on Clomid with IUI, just cause I'm 34. If we don't have much improvement in count over the summer, I want to try IVF/ICSI in the fall. DH is going to have a sample frozen next month.


----------



## Tammerzann

Just thought I would give an update on the DH and I's current status:

*March 8*: SA of zero
*May 7*: UR appt for DH with Dx of CAVD
*May 18*: My BW with results of: FSH 6.1 (was told this was good), E2 of 86 (Nurse showed some concern but said another test would show if this was a fluke or if it was something wrong)
*June 4*: UR Followup on DH's BW showing his numbers are good but that he's a carrier of Cystic Fibrosis. They did BW on me to see if I'm a carrier and I will find out in 2-3 weeks what my results are. If I'm not a carrier then we just need to get my side of things figured out and then we will have to schedule a MESA for DH (and figure out how to pay for it :wacko:) followed by IVF for me.

A lot of info to digest :coffee: but I have a pretty good feeling about it all.

Next up is an appt with my OB/GYN on the 19th (which is a year overdue b/c I was hoping we could get PG naturally :dohh:)

So I might have fibbed in the title of my post. But that's definitely short winded for me! :shrug: :flower:


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## deafgal01

Tam that is progress! Hoping you will get knocked up soon enough.

I just had my consultation appt with a new clinic yesterday. I decided to try a different one because the experience with the first one I tried last fall was awkward plus the dr is the only one for that clinic so basically I would have to suffer because he had to split his duties between three or four locations in the state so I felt that was quite not a committed dr to his patients. He joked about dh too when we met him, he said "oh so it's all his fault." And I never was able to erase that from my mind after meeting him so new clinic it was.

Fast forward to yesterday. Def a better experience with new clinic. Dr seems available as he only works that location and if he is not, his nurse can follow up/check on me. The clinic wants more than just diseases blood screening from me. They said they wanted me to have hsg and day 3 bloods, just to rule out everything and make sure we know what we are up against. They took the time to sit down and explain every step to us, overwhelming as it was it was very informative and just what we needed. They also require counseling before you undergo iui or Ivf, so that was a bonus. The counseling appt I already had yesterday as well so I feel like we did not move forward but we did not move backward too. I went into details in my journal about the prices and options.


----------



## Tammerzann

Deafgal I couldn't agree with you more! Teasing between my DH and myself is one thing but that seems extremely unprofessional for the doctor to say something like that. I don't blame you for going elsewhere. Glad you had a better experience!!!


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## MrsG30

Update from me.

after weighing everything up for a good few weeks now and taking everything into consideration DH and I have decided to use DS. Purely personal choice and made for many reasons, I know some of you will disagree but its the right choice for us.

As we no longer need urology, the FS has brought our next appointment forward, so we go back 2/7 to make plans for a treatment plan. 6 rounds of IUI all medicated as I have PCOS and if needed 3 x IVF. Thankfully covered by the NHS.

We are using a known donor and his app is a week before ours, were expecting his "donation" will be quarantined for approx 4 month, so hopefully treatment will start around Nov/Dec time. 

Feels good to have a plan- just hope 2 god it works

Hi to all and hope your all ok? xxx


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## deafgal01

MrsG hope that goes to plan!

I am doing fine. Still waiting for af so I can get the tests scheduled.


----------



## SunUp

Hey Ladies- I just wanted to give you a heads up that my Azoo Miracle should be here this week :) Dr is inducing within a week. It is a LONG journey but so worth it in the end! Good luck to all of you!


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## deafgal01

Ooooh Sunup how exciting!!!! Good luck with the labor!


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## Hopeful Cat

Congrats Sunup! good luck with the labour and delivery.

I have just Triggered in my IVF Cycle so hubby goes in for his mTESE tomorrow morning to see if they can find any sperm to fertilise the eggs they get out of me on Thursday. Super nervous. So far we've had not even seen a single sperm so feeling the pressure at the moment. Not sure when we find out but i'm assuming before or after my egg retrieval on Thursday. Please cross all your fingers and toes for us! [-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;


----------



## deafgal01

Good luck Hopeful!

How is everyone else doing?


----------



## tulip11

Hi girls 
As I have mentioned that we got two bottles via post for sperm analysis which we submitted already so we called the surgery to know about results they said that during our next appointment we ill be told about urine, blood n sperm analysis results at once and our next appointment ill be on 31st july we are waiting for appointment letter...now I wanna know what would be the next appointment all about...as ultra sound shows normal blood flow, normal size testicles, no blockages.


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## MrsG30

Hopefull.
Congrats lady- your well on your way.
If thee mtese isnt a success then what happens do you have back up in place or does your clinic freeze your eggs? Hopefully you wont have this to face and hubby will have some swimmers hiding in there- Have my fingers x'd for you xxx


Hopeful Cat said:


> Congrats Sunup! good luck with the labour and delivery.
> 
> I have just Triggered in my IVF Cycle so hubby goes in for his mTESE tomorrow morning to see if they can find any sperm to fertilise the eggs they get out of me on Thursday. Super nervous. So far we've had not even seen a single sperm so feeling the pressure at the moment. Not sure when we find out but i'm assuming before or after my egg retrieval on Thursday. Please cross all your fingers and toes for us! [-o&lt;[-o&lt;[-o&lt;


----------



## Mikihob

Hi ladies. Here's an update from me. 

DH started HCG injections on June 8th. My doc stated that we shouldn't do a SA before two months so I think we want to wait two and a half just so that we can see if there is any improvement at all. I hope that the HCG will help his sex drive and his sperm count. A little nervous but excited and hoping that we finally get good news. 

Does anyone have experience with these injections??

I hope everyone else is doing well.


----------



## deafgal01

Miki- good luck. My dh has not done that sort of thing so no advice or experience to share. :shrug:


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## Hopeful Cat

OMG they found a wriggler already! waiting on getting the whole results later today or tomorrow during egg collection. if they didn't get sperm they were going to freeze me eggs to use with a donor. OMG I'm in shock that we have even 1 sperm! ! Hoping they find more :)


----------



## MadCatLady

Hopeful Cat - that's fantastic! Hope they find more too! Gives us all hope that they are in there hiding away really! 
MikiHob - really hope the injections make a difference and that you get good news at next SA!
SunUp- Congratulations, good luck with the delivery and welcome to your long awaited baby - may the same be possible for all of us!


----------



## BrandyRelax

Mikihob said:


> Hi ladies. Here's an update from me.
> 
> DH started HCG injections on June 8th. My doc stated that we shouldn't do a SA before two months so I think we want to wait two and a half just so that we can see if there is any improvement at all. I hope that the HCG will help his sex drive and his sperm count. A little nervous but excited and hoping that we finally get good news.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with these injections??
> 
> I hope everyone else is doing well.

My hubby started on them early May. They aren't terrible for pain or anything, he does the shots 3 times a week. The one challenge we found is that when we were on vacation, it was annoying to always have to have the mixed HCG drug in the fridge, but we made it work.

The only thing we noticed is that he's more testy (just a little grumpier than he was before). It hasn't really changed his sex drive from what I can tell.

His testosterone is up, and FSH is down, so that's a good sign. He did a SA 4 weeks after and 5 weeks after, and nothing showing up, but he'll do one again late June and late July before the surgery.


----------



## Mikihob

BrandyRelax thanks for sharing. I hope DH doesn't get testy. He has already been grumpy since stopping his testosterone injections last November. Without his testosterone he has zero sex drive, no sperm, grumpiness, tiredness and brain issues (no concentration or memory). Poor guy. :nope:

I hope that the SA's in June and July come back great for you. Maybe HCG just needs extra time to work it's magic. :flower:


----------



## Rainbow123

Hopeful Cat said:


> OMG they found a wriggler already! waiting on getting the whole results later today or tomorrow during egg collection. if they didn't get sperm they were going to freeze me eggs to use with a donor. OMG I'm in shock that we have even 1 sperm! ! Hoping they find more :)

That's great news Hopeful! Fingers and toes crossed for you!
:hugs: XXX


----------



## MrsMo

Hi everyone, just been catching up on the last few pages. Glad they found a wriggler already HopefulCat! So glad things are speeding up for you MrsG30, we found the whole DS thing easy once we made the difficult decision to go with it. Good luck Miki, fingers crossed for no grumpiness!

As for me, I'm well into our 1st cycle of IVF now! I have to take one more FSH injection tonight and then the HCG tomorrow ready for theatre for egg retrieval on Monday morning! My scans over this week have shown initially just 3, but now 4 (one was hiding!) follicles have increased in size enough which isn't many obviously but is what they expected given my low AMH. Fingers crossed they all fertilise since we now have good (purchased) sperm! Not long now til we'll know if it's worked or not! So excited but trying not to be too optimistic!!

Have found the whole thing not too bad now the worst part of the waiting is over. Obviously the 2 week wait will be difficult but so far so good. No bad side effects and have even found doing my daily injections pretty easy :)

Good luck to everyone else with appointments and tests etc coming up!


----------



## Rainbow123

Glad everything's going well MrsMo! It must be so exciting! :) XXXXX


----------



## MrsG30

Hopeful- excellent- so happy for you!

Mrsmo- Following you like a stalker, we seem very similar, have everything crossed for you, we will all be here in your 2ww to support you.

AFM- Im counting the days to our donors app at ur clinic which is the 27th of this month and the mine and hubbys app is 2/7 so not too long to wait.

Hi to all gang- have a good weekend xxx


----------



## deafgal01

Good luck Mrs Mo

you too Mrs G

As for me- we're still in the testing stage. I just had my bloods taken today to rule out diseases screening (required before undergoing IUI with donor) and day 3 prolactin. HSG is scheduled for Thursday to rule out any other issues that could affect our possibility at IUI. The known donor has yet to schedule his appt for his tests so once we have all the results done, I guess we'll be going full stream ahead. There's a counseling appt for all of us (my dh, me, and the known donor) on the 25th of this month too.

I don't know if we'll be waiting the full 6 months for donor's results or if we'll be allowed to use each sample as we go after they're tested and the results come back fine.


----------



## tulip11

Hi is here anyone whose husband has NOA and have successful sperm retrieval ?


----------



## Deb111

tulip11 said:


> Hi is here anyone whose husband has NOA and have successful sperm retrieval ?

Hi Tulip
Dh has NOA and we had a successful microTESE sperm retrieval 

I MUST get on here and catch up with you all. I think about you often but Aimee keeps me very busy. Hope youre all doing ok x x


----------



## Rainbow123

Deb111 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi is here anyone whose husband has NOA and have successful sperm retrieval ?
> 
> Hi Tulip
> Dh has NOA and we had a successful microTESE sperm retrieval
> 
> I MUST get on here and catch up with you all. I think about you often but Aimee keeps me very busy. Hope youre all doing ok x xClick to expand...

Hi Tulip and Deb,
Did you find out what the reason for your DH's NOA was? My DH has high FSH levels, and has been told he has small testicles, but we don't really have an awful lot more information to say why it's happened. I have been trying to research to find out whether people have had successful sperm retrieval with testicular failure (I think that's the cause of his azoo), but I've not managed to come up with much...
We have been told that we will only be given mTESE on NHS if the urologist at Leeds thinks it could be successful, but from what I've read there's no way of knowing until you actually go in and take a look.. Tbh, the FS didn't even give us mTESE as an option, the first thing she said after explaining NOA (which I was pretty clued up on from waiting 5 months for an appointment after his diagnosis) was that the only option was donor sperm. I was so glad that I'd seen everyone's experiences on here (thank you so much Deb for setting this forum up, you're a God send!) so that I could - with confidence - say that we were expecting to be referred for a mTESE. As we're being referred to Leeds Centre for Reproductive Health from the Isle of Man, it is taking a very looooong time to get the urologist appointment, so I want to get even more clued up so that if he says they won't fund it, I can ask for a second opinion (which I'm assuming we should be able to do?). I wish we could go to Jonathan Ramsay like you did Deb, but it's a money issue with us. We're currently saving every last penny so that we can pay for IVF, as the Isle of Man would only fund one cycle of IVF and that's not great odds! 
Has anyone had any dealings with Leeds? I've read some experiences which don't fill me with confidence... ARGH! 
Hope you have had a lovely Father's Day with Aimee Deb, it must be so much fun!
Lots of love to everyone :hugs:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## MoBaby

Hi deb! Good to hear from you.
Did you mention before that your DH was on clomid or letrozole? My DH started on clomid and HCG injections about 5 weeks ago (we are doing a FET first with our current RE and if it doesnt work out a fresh IVF at a different clinic so we went ahead and started treatment for him). We are hoping for some improvement in his count and motility but at the least some sperm when they do the TESE. We decided if we do another fresh he will have the TESE done at the same time as my EC so they will have fresh swimmers to use.


----------



## tulip11

H iRainbow123
Last time in April my husband had ultrasound which shows that there is no blockage, normal blood flow, almost normal testicles size as well so the man who did ultra sound said that he ill send this report to urologist later on he ill tell us everything in detail. But before that my husband provided urine , blood samples for tests n later on we got two sample bottle for sperm analysis via post as sent by urologist so we submitted two sperm samples as well ...but as we didnt get any further appointment letter or result call so we called and inquired about results so the lady on phone told us that our next appointment ill be on 31st july and we ill get the app letter v soon so in that app we ill get to know about whole results. Idk what ill happen next . All the best to you.


----------



## Deb111

Rainbow - he had high fsh, low testosterone and primary testicular failure. The urologist put him on anastrazole - cost under £20 for 3 months supply! and then did the mTESE. Even after that they only found 40ish sperm and it was a gamble, but sitting here looking at dh with our 7 and a half month old enjoying his first fathers day, how could anyone deny it was worth a try?? X x


----------



## Deb111

MoBaby said:


> Hi deb! Good to hear from you.
> Did you mention before that your DH was on clomid or letrozole? My DH started on clomid and HCG injections about 5 weeks ago (we are doing a FET first with our current RE and if it doesnt work out a fresh IVF at a different clinic so we went ahead and started treatment for him). We are hoping for some improvement in his count and motility but at the least some sperm when they do the TESE. We decided if we do another fresh he will have the TESE done at the same time as my EC so they will have fresh swimmers to use.

He wad on tamoxifen which did wonders for his fsh and testosterone but pushed his oestrogen up too so he changed him to anastrazole x


----------



## MrsMo

7!!! We got 7 eggs! :D The usual for someone with such a low AMH as I have is 1-6 eggs, I obviously had to go one better, hehe! (Normal average is apparently 10.)

I'm so excited and pleased and so was our embryologist, although she did say that since they weren't expecting so many she is cautiously optimistic as they might not all be mature enough. The retrieval was fine and we find out tomorrow morning how many have fertilised and when they will be going back in! Eeeek! :happydance:


----------



## Stinas

MrsMo - Yayy!! Congrats!


----------



## deafgal01

That is great mrsMo!


----------



## MrsMo

None of them fertilised. They don't know why. 6 of the 7 eggs were mature. Sperm was looking good. Nothing happened and that's the end of that.

We were just not prepared for it to end now, at this point. I thought we'd at least get one to implant after being so lucky getting so many eggs. I was prepared for it not to work after implantation but to not even fertilise. I am so devastated.


----------



## Hopeful Cat

So sorry MrsMo. Thats such hard news for u to take. Xx will they b able to give u any more info as to why they didnt fertilise?


----------



## MrsMo

Hopeful Cat said:


> So sorry MrsMo. Thats such hard news for u to take. Xx will they b able to give u any more info as to why they didnt fertilise?

Thanks, probably not, they said they will have another look at the eggs later but sometimes this just happens. They'll be having a meeting to discuss failed cases and will be in touch but she said the most likely recommendation will be for us to try again with ICSI and she said ASAP because of my AMH. Time is definitely an issue. :cry:


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Wish I could give you a big hug MrsMo! Would you be staying again next month then? Its such a frustrating process because you never know what will happen but you just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other. 7 eggs was a great result, fingers crossed next cycle is more successful:hugs::hugs:


----------



## MrsMo

Thanks so much, DH is stuck at work so I'm now home alone and trying not to wallow. So glad this forum is here with people who really understand. I don't even know yet how long we have to wait to try again. 

We're not going to be able to afford to feed a baby at this rate either. Worked out we've spent around £9000 so far for nothing. £3000 for failed mTESE, £2000 for sperm, £3500 for IVF and more for the drugs, tests, appointments, etc. And now we're back fully to square one with regard to eggs so it will be another £700 for drugs and this time £4000 for ICSI (we still have 2 vials of sperm left at least). Not to mention wages lost due to time off. Are we crazy?! I know we need and want to do this but when it starts seeming more and more hopeless are we just wasting thousands of pounds?! I don't know.


----------



## Hopeful Cat

I know it cn be so hard to find people to relate to n your everyday life. This forum is a Godsend! Yeah the cost s do add up. I jUst got two bills in the mail for dhs mTese and because it lasted so long the anaesthetic fee is huge! But in the end its jUst money and what is life of you don't shoot for your dreams. If your heart is being to be a mother like mine is then you gotta do what you gotta do.


----------



## MoBaby

Mrsmo that's devastating. I'm soo sorry :( we are well invested to having a baby as well and I'm not stopping until it happens. They should give you some sort if discount or free sperm or something next go round since you didn't get to transfer. So sorry again :(


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh MrsMo :hugs: it's such a hard road to travel on, to have that many out but none of them fertilized? :hugs: I hope they don't make you wait too long for the next attempt.


----------



## Stinas

MrsMo - :hugs::hugs:
Azoo is hard enough, but for this to happen is just not fair. 
This forum is amazing. Its hard for the normal average joe to understand what we are going through. No one gets it. Its wonderful to be able to relate to people....sucks that some of us are far away from each other, but this support system really helps through the hard times. 
There is always a light at the end of the tunnel....some of us just get stuck on the detour....we will get there eventually. :hugs::hugs:


----------



## Rainbow123

So sorry to hear that MrsMo, that is so damn unfair. I hope you are as ok as you can be, my thoughts and prayers are with you, as they are with all the other ladies who are going through this crap! We will all get there, if only we had a crystal ball to tell us when, it may be a little easier.
With regards to money, my DH and I have spoken about it too, and are thinking that if we run out of savings we will have to sell the house or something as there is nothing more important to us than having babies. It really does suck how we all have to go through this, it is made even worse by the financial problems it can give you too!
Love to all,
XXXXXXXX


----------



## tulip11

Hi just a quick question ..I am taking pregnacare vit since 2012 june but now switched to pregnacare conception for his and her which contains wellman conception for man...is there anyone here on the thread whose hubby used these wellman vit and later on get some good results ?


----------



## Rainbow123

tulip11 said:


> Hi just a quick question ..I am taking pregnacare vit since 2012 june but now switched to pregnacare conception for his and her which contains wellman conception for man...is there anyone here on the thread whose hubby used these wellman vit and later on get some good results ?

My hubby was taking them for a few months, before we found out about the azoo. He's stopped now, but if we are able to go for a mTESE I would definitely have him taking them again. I suppose that if there are sperm somewhere in there then it should theoretically improve the quality of any you find in a sperm retrieval.
X


----------



## arzoo

Hi... I am so glad I came across this forum. Hope you wont mind me posting here and joinin in. It will be a month tomorrow since we were told about my DH zero sperm count. Each morning when I wake up, I am hoping that this was all a bad dream and things would go back to being normal. The story so far.... have been TTC for 9 months. I feared something was wrong , went to the GP multiple times and finally convinced them to send me for tests. All my blood test (21 day and 4thday) tests came out normal. Then came the question of SA for my DH. There was about 2 months wait, in the meantime we continued to TTC naturally not suspecting anything. On May 23rd , a day I will never ever be able to forget. I came home from work and my DH hugged me and told me that the results were back and they did not spot a single sperm. Cried our hearts our all night. Since then DH has had his second SA and the same disappointing results. Had to deal with an incompetent GP , looks like she never ever heard about azoospermia. After multiple calls , visit to the GP , meeting the practise manager we were finally referred last week. and was disappointed to know that I have been referred to see a gynaecologist. Given the long wait to get an andrologist and the confirmed lack of sperm the lady at the referral centre advised me to ask the GP to refer my husband in parallel. Few more calls to the GP and finally they have referred my DH. We have decided to go private. Progesterone levels are low but within range .FSH levels very high (21 , range is upto 8). Mr google tells me that it is down to testicular failure. We are hoping to get an appointment with Dr Ramsay.
Sorry for the long post ladies. We are not ready to discuss this with family or friends (don&#8217;t think we ever will be) so sharing this with you all who are under similar circumstances.


----------



## tulip11

Hi arzoo
I am really sorry for what you are facing. Dont worry InshaAllah everything will be ok... my prayers are with you.


----------



## MoBaby

sorry arzoo for what you guys are facing. I am sure they will be able to help you and DH. It is very crushing diagnosis but luckily we have all these wonderful women on this thread who are dealing with the same issues for support. I hope mr ramsay has some answers for you guys.


----------



## arzoo

Thank you Tulip and MoBaby. 
I spend the whole of today reading this forum (still 100s of pages to g0), and I am feeling a sense of great relief to have someone I can share my thoughts, doubts, fears with in this time of tears and heatache.

While we are waiting to see the Dr. I have got my DH the Wellman vitamin tablets (hanging on to any hope) does anyone know if they can be counter productive? as in cause change in hormone levels which will give confusing diagnosis?


----------



## MoBaby

The vitamins will not help or change the hormone levels but if he is making any in his testicles that can be retrieved it may make it healthier. My DH is on them and he started some meds about 6 wks ago.. we still have to see how they are helping.


----------



## deafgal01

arzoo- might be something to think about... Have you ever considered maybe undergoing counseling? Not any counselor but one that specializes in infertility issues? They can help you sort thru your feelings and make sure you both are communicating with each other. Not only that, the counselor I had recently was helpful in giving ideas of what we can expect when we finally undergo our IUI procedures and some tips for getting thru the wait period of two weeks. I'm sorry to hear you have to join our boat but you've come to the right place and we've had a few successful hits (some of the girls that started in this thread are now holding their babies and raising them) so you do have some hope of some kind. :hugs:


----------



## arzoo

After the initial bad news of Azoo , I read online about the different kinds of azoo and also read that FSH levels could be used to determine the type of azoo. Based on this DH had his FSH levels tested. Further bad news, very high FSH (21 normal is below 8) I am loosing all hope. Is there some out there who has had a success story of finding sperms despite having high FSH ?


----------



## deafgal01

arzoo- mine isn't. We could try mtese but we opted out of that due to our budget, we don't want to be in debt trying to find sperms for the next two years so we are going to use donor. But it's not the same for every couple so don't lose hope. If the dr knows what they are doing and you have the funds for it, go for it and find out if that's possible to use the sperms from your husband.

High FSH means the body recognizes that something's not right and is trying to fix it (but usually needs help fixing it to get it working).


----------



## MrsG30

Arzoo, Sorry to find you dealing wit this shitty condition but were all in the same boat here and will help you as much as we can.
Ive have used this thread and forum sine the day we found out, it actually keeps me sane.
My hubby's FH IS 35.1!! We live in the UK and the MTESE was offered to us on the NHS, so you will get the chance of it regardless. We, like deafgal decided against the op, as it was not for £££ reasons, but ones of personal choice, its each to there own I guess.
Deb who started this thread will be along at some point and she will give you hope, she is raising her little AZOO baby now. Infact there are lots of ladies on here who have there little bundles either from MTese or S.
Either way hun , decide what right for you, you will get there at some point, just like the rest of us. 
any questions just ask xxxx



arzoo said:


> After the initial bad news of Azoo , I read online about the different kinds of azoo and also read that FSH levels could be used to determine the type of azoo. Based on this DH had his FSH levels tested. Further bad news, very high FSH (21 normal is below 8) I am loosing all hope. Is there some out there who has had a success story of finding sperms despite having high FSH ?


----------



## arzoo

Thank you for your support. it really means a lot .

My DH and I have spoke about it at length and we want to do all we can to have our own baby. Right now , all I want is hope that it is possible. we are willing to sacrifice whatever it takes from ourside time money etc. We lost few month due to incompetence of our GP , and now have decided to go and see the urologist privately just for our peace of mind and to know the cause of azoo. The appointment is 2weeks time. In the mean time I came across posts from Deb and we requested few blood tests from the GP and the rest we have paid for. Just hoping that the appointment with the urologist does not give us further bad news. We are still waiting for the karotype results


----------



## deafgal01

Praying you hear good results. It is hard to get bad news but yes you have a great group of supportive ladies on here.


----------



## Rainbow123

arzoo said:


> Thank you for your support. it really means a lot .
> 
> My DH and I have spoke about it at length and we want to do all we can to have our own baby. Right now , all I want is hope that it is possible. we are willing to sacrifice whatever it takes from ourside time money etc. We lost few month due to incompetence of our GP , and now have decided to go and see the urologist privately just for our peace of mind and to know the cause of azoo. The appointment is 2weeks time. In the mean time I came across posts from Deb and we requested few blood tests from the GP and the rest we have paid for. Just hoping that the appointment with the urologist does not give us further bad news. We are still waiting for the karotype results

Sorry that you are having to go through this Arzoo, but glad you found us! I have heard/read excellent things about Dr Ramsay, so I am sure that he will be able to give you the best advice. My DH and I really want to go and see him, but due to costs involved we are going to see what the NHS will offer us first whilst we save some money. My hubby also has high FSH which is associated with non-obstructive azoospermia, due to testicular failure. It really is crappy how long it takes once you find out, and there is little support offered by the NHS to help keep you sane, but so glad I found the ladies on this forum! I think I may have had a nervous break down if it wasn't for this site!
Let us know how you get on with Dr Ramsay, and if you don't mind sharing, please can you let me know how much the initial consultation costs please?
Lots of love and hugs :hugs: XXXXXXX


----------



## MadCatLady

Hi all, haven't been on here for a while so it has taken me a while to catch up on everyone. MrsMo, really sorry to hear your news, hope you're as ok as you can be and that things take positive turn soon. Hi Arzoo, welcome, you have found a very friendly and supportive forum here with lots of lovely ladies on it! 

We have got an appt eventually to see fertility clinic on NHS in Sheffield, we were recommended to go here as London is a wee bit too far from West Yorkshire (!) and also a friend of a friend recommended Mr Skull as a specialist in male infertility, and so with no help or guidance from anyone else, esp GP, we decided to go there! 3 weeks still seems such a long way off but I hope by then all our test results are in. Apparently DH chromosome bloodwork is waiting for Dr to see, feel bit ill about it as like I have said before, he has a lot of markers for Klinefelter's syndrome, but will have to see what results say! 

DH is quite determined he wants mTESE, although with what I have heard re waiting lists for this I may well be classed as decrepit if we wait for it! Don't want to be negative against something he wants to try though. Again, hopefully get some more answers in Sheffield. 

Hugs to everyone x


----------



## arzoo

Hi Rainbow, we are lucky that we are in London and so have access to the clinics visited my Mr.Ramsay. The wait for private appointments is not bad, we are having an extra week delay as I think Mr.Ramsay is on holiday. The initial consultation cost is about £200, which is far lesser than what some other consultants are charging. To save us time and money while we wait for our appointment we are getting few blood tests done e.g. Karyotype (requested through our GP) and Ychromosome micro deletion (privately £166). What I would say to anyone who is in similar situation is , please make sure you request your GP to and get the following tests, most GPs are clueless (we had to spell out Karyotype to ours! I did basic biology in school and I know about this test ! sigh!)
-FSH
-LH
-Testosterone
-Karyotype
-Ychromosome micro deletion
- Cystic Fybrosis


----------



## tulip11

Hi my hubby previous blood tests results which was ordered by GP shows almost normal FSH he said that its a lil bit higher than normal range so according to him thats not so serious to take it....but now we ill get results of blood tests as ordered by urologist ...so my question is that is a lil difference of FSH shows something ? What I know that hubby has NOA as there is no blockage, normal flow of blood.


----------



## Rainbow123

arzoo said:


> Hi Rainbow, we are lucky that we are in London and so have access to the clinics visited my Mr.Ramsay. The wait for private appointments is not bad, we are having an extra week delay as I think Mr.Ramsay is on holiday. The initial consultation cost is about £200, which is far lesser than what some other consultants are charging. To save us time and money while we wait for our appointment we are getting few blood tests done e.g. Karyotype (requested through our GP) and Ychromosome micro deletion (privately £166). What I would say to anyone who is in similar situation is , please make sure you request your GP to and get the following tests, most GPs are clueless (we had to spell out Karyotype to ours! I did basic biology in school and I know about this test ! sigh!)
> -FSH
> -LH
> -Testosterone
> -Karyotype
> -Ychromosome micro deletion
> - Cystic Fybrosis

Thank you Arzoo, that's really helpful :) I will see if I can get hubby to ask for the Karatype, Ychrom and Cystic Fyb tests (he's had the others done already). £200 is much less than I thought, it will probably cost us more to get the plane to London as we live in the Isle of Man and it's so darn expensive to get off our lovely rock!
2 weeks is really quick, I think that we might see how NHS goes - supposedly going to be around August time which is rubbish but hey - and then book to see him after that. I've seen that he does Saturdays which is handy!
XXXXX


----------



## arzoo

Yes Mr Ramsay does satudays at a clinic in Windsor.


----------



## Mikihob

Hi arzoo welcome!!

My DH has azoospermia, diagnosed in Nov. 2012. His progesterone, LH and FSH are all within the normal range. Whether high or low normal, we are not sure but we know they are within the normal range. He is currently taking HCG to try to boost his production of swimmers. His moodiness has slightly increased since started two weeks ago, but his sex drive has gone up and he seems to be sleeping a little better and has a slightly less cloudy memory. Overall so far so good. We are hoping that this helps boost sperm production because if it doesn't we are headed to Seattle for a testicular biopsy to see if he is even producing at all. 

HCG is pretty costly and it's costing us an arm and a leg but if you don't get any answers or definitive reasons for the azoo you can always try HCG before a biopsy or mTese. We are doing three injections a week of 2000ml. It sucks and DH hates the shots but if it helps we feel it's worth it. 

Welcome to this thread. These ladies are magnificent and are the only reason my head has not exploded from stress!! Good luck in your journey.


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## MadCatLady

Why oh why don't Doctors help? We were told that the dr would be phoning on Tues to go through DH blood test results, so she phones to say she has been called away and she will phone him the next day to go through it. So she phones today, says she can't go through the results on the phone so will write a letter to GP and then we will have to go see them sometime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even though we've said it several times we have appt at fertility clinic in two weeks so need all the results with us - none of this extra faffing and not telling us what is happening. Plus can't help feeling that it can't be good news :(


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## deafgal01

Mad- that's annoying :hugs: Hate it when they give you the run around and delay giving you the results. :hugs:


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## Hopeful Cat

Hey ladies unfortunately after all the excitement and happiness of finding sperm in hubby and getting 2 embryos transferred it seems my first ivf cycle is a bust. Got af yesterday and a bfn on a hpt have blood test on saturday to conFirm. So i guess its down to our 2 frozen embryos and then another mtese if they fail too. Im feeling so disheartened. :(


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## deafgal01

Hopeful :hugs:


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## Rainbow123

Hopeful Cat said:


> Hey ladies unfortunately after all the excitement and happiness of finding sperm in hubby and getting 2 embryos transferred it seems my first ivf cycle is a bust. Got af yesterday and a bfn on a hpt have blood test on saturday to conFirm. So i guess its down to our 2 frozen embryos and then another mtese if they fail too. Im feeling so disheartened. :(

So sorry to hear that Hopeful, but there is still hope! When do you get to try again? I've read that acupuncture can really increase the chances of IVF success. It might be rubbish, but similarly it might not! I'm sure you'll get pregnant next cycle, but that probably doesn't help how you're feeling now. Big hugs from me :hugs: and I'm sure that in the very near future I will be reading BFP from you on here! Lots of love XXXXXXXX


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## arzoo

Hi, Just thought of checking in to see how you ladies are . I have another 10 days of agonising wait before we see the specialise. I know it is not as long as some of you had to wait. But I am so impatient that I am hating this limbo state before knowing answers to the question .... is there hope of every having our biological child.


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## tulip11

Hi my hubby previous blood tests results which was ordered by GP shows almost normal FSH he said that its a lil bit higher than normal range so according to him thats not so serious to take it....but now we ill get results of blood tests as ordered by urologist ...so my question is that is a lil difference of FSH shows something ? What I know that hubby has NOA as there is no blockage, normal flow of blood.


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## arzoo

Hi Tulip, sorry dont know if a little difference is an indication of anything, all I have read is , if FSH normal then azoo is cause of blockage and if FSH high then it indicates failure of the testis. You are best asking this question to the urologist. and if you dont mind , do share what you find out.


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## tulip11

arzoo said:


> Hi Tulip, sorry dont know if a little difference is an indication of anything, all I have read is , if FSH normal then azoo is cause of blockage and if FSH high then it indicates failure of the testis. You are best asking this question to the urologist. and if you dont mind , do share what you find out.

Yes dear we ill be having next appointment on 31st july huh I hate waiting...yes that made me confused because ultrasound shown no blockage, normal blood flow so that means its NOA. we ill get our urine, blood, two SA results in our next appointment.


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## tulip11

arzoo said:


> Hi Tulip, sorry dont know if a little difference is an indication of anything, all I have read is , if FSH normal then azoo is cause of blockage and if FSH high then it indicates failure of the testis. You are best asking this question to the urologist. and if you dont mind , do share what you find out.

Yes dear we ill be having next appointment on 31st july huh I hate waiting..yes definitly i ill share with you guys...yes that made me confused because ultrasound shown no blockage, normal blood flow so that means its NOA. we ill get our urine, blood, two SA results in our next appointment.


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## AuCa

arzoo said:


> Hi Tulip, sorry dont know if a little difference is an indication of anything, all I have read is , if FSH normal then azoo is cause of blockage and if FSH high then it indicates failure of the testis. You are best asking this question to the urologist. and if you dont mind , do share what you find out.

Not necessarily. And there is also quite a range for what is "normal FSH". My DH doesn't have high FSH (it's in the reference range of what is officially considered "normal"), but he also has no blockages. We had every test done there is, and no cause for his condition found (he's not 100% azoospermic, but has a count of max. 300 or so, so extremely low).

The frustrating thing is - in most cases they never figure out what causes the azoospermia.


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## Rainbow123

arzoo said:


> Hi, Just thought of checking in to see how you ladies are . I have another 10 days of agonising wait before we see the specialise. I know it is not as long as some of you had to wait. But I am so impatient that I am hating this limbo state before knowing answers to the question .... is there hope of every having our biological child.

We've just found out our urologist appointment is on the 15th July! So glad it's only 2 and a half weeks away, thought it was going to be longer. It is awful having to wait when all you want to do is ask questions and get the ball rolling. My DH has slightly elevated FSH levels, and has been told it's NOA, ultrasound last Monday showed up calcification in one of his testicles which is what shows up if you've had mumps, apparently. He doesn't remember having mumps, but who knows! It's definitely testicular failure anyway. Back to what you were saying about biological child, you won't really know until they get in there and have a look I'm afraid. Dr Ramsay will probably be able to tell you the likelihood, but from what I've read there is no way of being able to know until you do the mTESE. I'm a bit nervous about our urologist appointment at Leeds, as we only got it so that we could discuss mTESE because I pushed. Our FS didn't even give it as an option, she'd said they only way we could go was to go straight for donor sperm. I'm so glad that I'd found this site and been able to absorb all the information, so that I could quite confidently say that I knew mTESEs were an option. She's referred us to see whether they will agree to do one, so this is not necessarily going to be an appointment to schedule a mTESE, rather to see whether it's worth doing (?). I think it's all rather strange.. we'll have to see!
Anyhoo, hope you can find some way of distracting yourself Arzoo! Just try to schedule in some fun time with your hubby and friends and keep busy!
Lots of love to one and all XXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## AuCa

Rainbow123 said:


> . My DH has slightly elevated FSH levels, and has been told it's NOA, ultrasound last Monday showed up calcification in one of his testicles which is what shows up if you've had mumps, apparently. He doesn't remember having mumps, but who knows! It's definitely testicular failure anyway.

Same for mine (forgot about that). There was some kind of "heterogeneity" showing up on the ultrasound which could be an indication of mumps or some other childhood infection. But we went back to check his vaccination records, and DH was vaccinated against mumps as a baby, so very unlikely that that was the reason.

Haven't been around here much lately, but I just wanted to say to everybody - it WILL get better. We're about to start IVF #1, and even with the stress of IVF I feel a million times better compared to how I felt during the entire testing stages, when we had no idea what was going on, or if we could even do IVF with ICSI etc.


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## Rainbow123

Good luck with the IVF AuCa! Glad you're feeling less stressed now things are in motion. XXX


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## SunUp

Just thought I'd pop in and say baby sunup is here, check my journal for more info! He is amazing! Stay strong ladies :) this page was a huge support for me, I hope my story can give some inspiration! Xo


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## Rainbow123

SunUp said:


> Just thought I'd pop in and say baby sunup is here, check my journal for more info! He is amazing! Stay strong ladies :) this page was a huge support for me, I hope my story can give some inspiration! Xo

Congratulation SunUp, that's fantastic news! Thank you for sharing and wishing you every happiness with your new family! :) XXXXX


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## rdleela

tulip11 said:


> Yes dear we ill be having next appointment on 31st july huh I hate waiting..yes definitly i ill share with you guys...yes that made me confused because ultrasound shown no blockage, normal blood flow so that means its NOA. we ill get our urine, blood, two SA results in our next appointment.

My DH had a blockage, and it did not show up on a trans-rectal u/s nor a testicular u/s. My DH's blockage consisted of scar tissue that had built up and "squeezed off" any sperm from coming out - excuse my non-medical term! lol (scarring was from 2 surgeries he had down there as a child)

All my DH's bloodwork came back normal, like I said u/s all normal, biopsy came back with finding sperm, it wasn't until he had his surgery to repair the blockage that they really got in there and found all the scarring. And they were able to repair him, and now we have increasing counts of sperm!


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## MoBaby

my DH has a repeat SA wednesday after being on hcg and clomid for 6-7 weeks to see if any improvement. Not being too hopeful but hopefully whats there will be better to use if for some reason our upcoming FET fails. If they do find anything more than what he had been producing we are going to request they freeze the sample.


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## MrsG30

Auca- Good Luck honey.
Sunup-congrats flower, bet he's gorg.

AFM: our donor had his first app last week and goes this Friday to give us 1st sample for testing. so at least were moving forward.
We got Tuesday to see whats next and hopefully get a treatment plan/timescale.

Feel happier its coming together, although I know we have a long way to go.

How is everyone? Love to all xxx


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## AuCa

rdleela said:


> My DH had a blockage, and it did not show up on a trans-rectal u/s nor a testicular u/s. My DH's blockage consisted of scar tissue that had built up and "squeezed off" any sperm from coming out - excuse my non-medical term! lol (scarring was from 2 surgeries he had down there as a child)

Interesting. Did he have a low ejaculate volume? We were always told that if there was a blockage they would likely see a low-ish volume of ejaculate, but I always wondered if that's true.


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## arzoo

Auca that is an interesting point you make about the volume. My DH has considerably low volume but his FSH is high which indicates tesicular failure over blockage. We are in the limbo state still waiting to see the specialist. I will post a note if I get to know something from the specialist.
Also, has anyone come across any connection between Azoo and size of the testicles?


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## MadCatLady

Hi all. Well we found out this morning that DH has Klinefelter's syndrome (XXY). Glad we had an idea that this might be coming - although we only had an inkling by doing our own research. Arzoo, this syndrome has a connection between size of testicles and Azoo, men with Klinefelter's tend to have small testicles. I wouldn't know about any other conditions that have a connection though I'm afraid. 

DH is upset understandably, obviously because of the infertility but also I think it is because the diagnosis of other specialists to look at hormones and GP want to keep an eye on his heart and have increased risk of osteoporosis etc. He doesn't like anything to do with health issues/hospitals at the best of times! Least we have this knowledge before we see fertility clinic in two weeks time I guess. just not too sure what this means for us IVF / assisted conception wise.


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## rdleela

AuCa said:


> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> My DH had a blockage, and it did not show up on a trans-rectal u/s nor a testicular u/s. My DH's blockage consisted of scar tissue that had built up and "squeezed off" any sperm from coming out - excuse my non-medical term! lol (scarring was from 2 surgeries he had down there as a child)
> 
> Interesting. Did he have a low ejaculate volume? We were always told that if there was a blockage they would likely see a low-ish volume of ejaculate, but I always wondered if that's true.Click to expand...

Yes, his volume was considered on the low side, and that's because the only thing that was ejaculating was stuff produced by the prostate, and of course, nothing from the testis.

His volume is actually still on the low side, even though we now have sperm.
Maybe because he's actually only producing from one testicle? (total guess) his other one never formed properly due to all the scarring from those surgeries as a child.


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## Rainbow123

arzoo said:


> Auca that is an interesting point you make about the volume. My DH has considerably low volume but his FSH is high which indicates tesicular failure over blockage. We are in the limbo state still waiting to see the specialist. I will post a note if I get to know something from the specialist.
> Also, has anyone come across any connection between Azoo and size of the testicles?

Non-obstructive azoospermia and small testicles go hand in hand seemingly. My DH also has high FSH and has been told his testicles are on the small side. X


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## MrsG30

same here.
DH has high FSH, slightly smaller "balls" (not noticeable to us) but volumes normal.
NOA diagnosed due to mumps.


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## BrandyRelax

From what I hear from the Urologist, the tests just give an idea of what is going on, but they won't know until they go in there whether there is anything being produced.

My hubby has high FSH and LH, has normal sized/type balls, normal (but low end) testosterone, and normal semen volume. When they did the surgery they found 3 sperm, so they're going to do a second mTESE, but still even with HCG shots, still no guarantee they'll find anything.

I think because this diagnosis isn't really harming the health of the guys, there isn't a ton of research on it. I recognize it's a nightmare for building a family, but compared to cancer that is killing people, it's a low priority disease compared to others.


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## arzoo

Thank you all for sharing the information. I am just trying to find answers while we wait for the test results and the specialist appointment. Getting very nervous as the day gets closer.

In the mean time I came across this site, which though repetitive lists down the various causes:
https://www.diabetesthyroidhormone.com/infertilityinfemale.htm


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## MoBaby

Madcat sorry about the diagnosis of xxy. :( hopefully there are some answers for you. I do believe some with xxy have been successful at retrieving some sperm through mtese. 

My dh diagnosis is unexplained primary testicular failure/NOA. He has low testosterone and slightly elevated FSH. The urologist said his testicles are slightly smaller than normal. Normal chromosomes and all other test. He has been on the Hcg shots also Brandy. We will know tomorrow if it's helped at all but he would most likely stay on them until TESE if we have to do a full ivf cycle because RE said even if none is coming out the Hcg/clomid will improve what's in there making it better quality sperm.

Arzo thanks for the link. I've been telling dh he needs to lose weight (he's about 60-70 lbs overweight) because I think it is contributing to his issue. I look at it as if women who are obese can have hormonal imbalances due to theo weight then men can too. But he's been completely unmotivated to lose weight :( Its very heartbreaking for me that he won't even try for our family.


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## tulip11

Hi during first appointment the dr did some general checkup so he told my hubby that your testicles seems to be small but during ultrasound the size of testicles came out to be normal...so I dont know which one was right .


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## arzoo

I have also read that there have been successful sperm retrieval in men with XXY

I will look around my saved links and see if I have the page


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## MrsG30

Hi Ladies
We are back from our 1st FS app after deciding on Donor sperm.
I had another scan, to make sure my womb and ovaries are fine, thankfully they are.
I have extra blood work to be done this Friday, repeat of what I had in Jan, but just to make it current. I was given a drug to bring on a period as FS thinks stress has made my periods disappear, I'm way late.
Waiting on my AMH results, hopefully they will be ok.

FS told us after our donor has had his sperm tested, frozen and thawed we have a treatment plan. she is expecting to be doing medicated IUI unless her sperm doesn't thaw then it will be straight to IVF.
she told me a don't need my tubes check just yet.

Net step is for our DR to consult with the DR who Is dealing with our donor (same clinic and devise a plan, they hoping to cut some of the testing out as he is family and as long as we sin to say were happy with his health etc the process an be shortened. Obviously the legal tests, HIV etc are compulsory.
BIL does his 1st sample Friday so hopefully we should have a treatment pan in place soon.
I feel quite positive tonight, fingers x'd this treatment will work.

How are you ladies? xxxx


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## BrandyRelax

MoBaby said:


> Madcat sorry about the diagnosis of xxy. :( hopefully there are some answers for you. I do believe some with xxy have been successful at retrieving some sperm through mtese.
> 
> My dh diagnosis is unexplained primary testicular failure/NOA. He has low testosterone and slightly elevated FSH. The urologist said his testicles are slightly smaller than normal. Normal chromosomes and all other test. He has been on the Hcg shots also Brandy. We will know tomorrow if it's helped at all but he would most likely stay on them until TESE if we have to do a full ivf cycle because RE said even if none is coming out the Hcg/clomid will improve what's in there making it better quality sperm.
> 
> Arzo thanks for the link. I've been telling dh he needs to lose weight (he's about 60-70 lbs overweight) because I think it is contributing to his issue. I look at it as if women who are obese can have hormonal imbalances due to theo weight then men can too. But he's been completely unmotivated to lose weight :( Its very heartbreaking for me that he won't even try for our family.

I can't wait to hear the results of the tests on your hubby. I haven't found a lot of info about HCG usage, and its results, so I'd be interested to know how it went for your hubby.

My hubby goes for his second SA since he started HCG, on Friday. He's been on it about 2.5 months now. My clinic's policy, is no news means there's no sperm, so if I hear nothing on Monday, I know there was nothing there, and I can report back just so you know.


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## deafgal01

MrsG- thanks for asking how we all are.

I'm sad to see more ladies get more devastating news. It's hard to take another step forward only to be told more bad news, been there, done that. Hang in there. I think it seems faster when you do have IUI or IVF or whatever other methods to get pregnant in place (either with donor or your husband's sperm if they find any).

As for me, we are in the stage where the dr keeps running tests on me. I've had a blood test done (both for day 3 and diseases screening that's required prior to donor) and HSG. I have a 3D ultrasound scheduled that is coming up in a week. So far I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop but I keep getting good reports on all my stuff. My donor that I had chosen, he is scheduled for his tests on the 20th of this month. I am hoping we won't have to wait too much longer after that to start using the donor (but deep down inside, I'm also prepared to expect the clinic to say wait 6 months so that they can complete the FDA's required freeze time and their tests) although they can always test each sample before use on me. So I'm at the point where I'm sort of ready to proceed but still on hold/wait due to tests.


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## MoBaby

So dh SA showed no sperm. No surprise. I'm disappointed but dr told us not to expect anything. I've decided to just do the fet and hope for a baby. If fet doesn't work I'm moving on to donor sperm for IUI. We have spent so much already trying to have a biological child for DH. It's heartbreaking to think that this is it for a biological child for dh but we've given it all we have. 2 frosties left to make it happen. I pray god has mercy on us this time :( I just can't do all the shots and monitoring again, etc. it's just too much. Hopefully in a few weeks we will get a bfp though.


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## Stinas

Mo - I really hope this FET works for the both of us!!! Im exhausted too!


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## deafgal01

Oh Stinas and MoBaby :hugs: Sounds like you both need hugs! :hugs: It's hard waiting and then being disappointed over and over again. I hope the FET works for both of you!


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## Mikihob

Well ladies DH has been on HCG for a month. He is tired of the injections and the constant headaches. He has a headache the entire day after his shots plus, he has a back muscle that's giving him fits and it's worse after the shots. We are really hoping that the HCG is working. But, his sex drive has improved which means the HCG is helping his testosterone. That's a good thing. 

I have started taking Inositol 500mg daily. The pills are supposed to aid in cell growth and regulate my hormones to help my PCOS. The pills cause nausea, headaches and tiredness, but I sure hope that the pills and the HCG works for us. 

I am sorry that so many of you ladies have gotten bad news. I hope that the bad news leads us all in the right direction to get our babies!!


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## arzoo

just dropping by to check how everyone is doing. dh blood results are back , both Karyotype and Y chromosome micro deletion tests are normal. We are seeing the specialist on Monday, until then a nervous wait to know what the cause of azoo is and also if there is any hope ahead for us.


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## tulip11

Hi everyone how all are you doing ? Today I am really sad as few of my friends who are mums and expecting few of them again asked me why havent you conceived till now ? Oh that broke my heart and I wanted to cry at that moment but controlled myself and when I came back I cried a lot idk why people who conceived easily thinks that its very easy job for everyone ? One should care about other feelings ..:cry::cry:


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## deafgal01

Tulip - they do not realize the pains people go to try to get pregnant. They never had to deal with a partner's diagnosis of infertility so out of innocence they may make comments or questions that seems inappropriate or makes us tear up.

I found that saying this to people helps me cope- I'm sort of spiritual though less since starting this journey but I tell them I'm waiting on God, I'm ready anytime He decides to bless me with a baby.

A friend made a good point recently. She said by time we have our babies, people will be done having theirs so we will get lots of good hand me downs! Thus saving money in long run.


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## arzoo

Hi Tulip, those people never realise the pain some of us have to live with. They think it is as easy as it is as it was for them. I have come across many people and such comments and I just tend to ignore them. When things get tough, the tough gets going. None of us here have given us on our fights, we are stronger than many of those on the other side of this fertility lottery.


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## MrsG30

Hi Ladies

Hope u all had a good weekend.
NoBaby- Good plan, fingers x'd for you.
Arzoo- that's good about DH tests.

Tulip- people just don't think I think as time has gone on with us, people have started to realise something is not quite right, therefore they stop asking in fear of offending.
I don't know if I prefer people saying the wrong thing or people not asking. 

xxx


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## Jojo27

Hi ladies
Hope you are all ok.
Just found the attached link online so thought I would share x 
https://www.redbookmag.com/_mobile/kids-family/sperm-donor-dad


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## tulip11

Hi everyone
We were told that our next appointment ill be on 31st july n we ill receive our app letter v soon today we again inquired about that we havent received anything so they said that your appointment ill be on 13th August idk why they are doing this to us ? Our last appointment was on 23rd april and we are waiting so anxiously ...any rough idea why do they postpone appointments ?


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## gem10

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this thread, but I've been reading everyone's story and it has been a relief to know that there are people out there going through the same thing. It's been so hard to talk to my friends about how I've been feeling because they just don't seem to understand.

A brief back-story for my husband and I:

I knew when I first met my husband that he suffered with azoospermia because it is something he has been dealing with his whole life. But I instantly fell in love with him and it didn't matter. I kept saying that I was meant to be a mom and God wouldn't have me fall deeply in love with someone who couldn't have kids. There's so much technology out there, I kept saying.

Flash forward 7 years we finally started looking into whether or not we could get pregnant. We met a urologist who was very positive and instantly made me feel like this was going to happen. He said, you're going to have to use IVF. He thought we'd be upset, but I was thrilled that there was hope! My husband is scheduled for a TESE procedure this summer. 

So I went to have my tests done thinking, this parts easy, it's not me. We know that already. I went to have my HSG done and the radiologist tells me as I'm laying on the table..You have a heart shaped uterus and may not be able to carry a baby to term. I was devastated. I started crying on the table.

I went for my SIS two days later and my doctor said my uterus was fine. A sigh of relief. Until a week later I get a phone call once they received my results and said there's something there. But the doctor is on vacation for two weeks. When he returns he wants to meet and come up with a plan. The nurse said it won't affect our IVF treatments but could affect the transfer. Worst case we need a surrogate. I was devastated all over again. Our appointment is this week and I am so nervous. I feel like they want to do surgery, but I just don't know. It's all I can do to not break down and cry on a daily basis. Why is this so hard for us? We are good, responsible people. It really just hurts so bad :cry:


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## silverbell

tulip11 said:


> Hi everyone
> We were told that our next appointment ill be on 31st july n we ill receive our app letter v soon today we again inquired about that we havent received anything so they said that your appointment ill be on 13th August idk why they are doing this to us ? Our last appointment was on 23rd april and we are waiting so anxiously ...any rough idea why do they postpone appointments ?

I'm sorry this has happened. I work at a hospital (not infertility related) and often appointments have to be cancelled due to the Consultant being on annual leave, study leave, change of on-call rotas to that week or having to be at various training sessions. Appointments must also be cancelled sometimes if there is a particularly urgent case which requires somebody else to be moved, though I highly doubt this is the case for anything infertility related, as nothing is ever that urgent in the world of infertillity I wouldn't have thought.

I would give them a call and leave your numbers with them and tell them that you'd be more than happy to attend at very short notice should a cancellation come up. They may say they can't call you if this happens, but it's definitely worth a try.


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## silverbell

Hello all.

I thought it was time I posted on here to update my situation. I've missed a lot, I'm sure. I do hope there has been some happy news in amongst the sadness and hopelessness this thread inevitably contains. :hugs:

After December's DIVF failure we had what was supposed to be our second and last try, starting in June. We had used up all our free NHS tries, so this was privately funded by us and we had decided if this didn't work then we would be giving up.

After a smooth start to the cycle and finding at least 7 follicles on the scans, I went for my egg collection ... only to be told when I'd come around from the sedation a bit that they'd found just 1 single egg. The rest of the follicles were empty. :nope: They injected the egg via ICSI with donor sperm ... but it didn't fertilise. I cried my heart out the next morning after the embryologist phoned to tell me.

So we spent over £5000 not to mention huge amounts of travelling (we live on an island) back and forth to appointments and time off work and all the emotional aspects of IVF ... for absolutely nothing. All our savings were gone.

I understand they think this all points to problems with my eggs and 'maturation issues'. I've got a low AMH for my age anyway, but first time around I had 10 eggs, though only 4 fertilised and only 2 made it. So perhaps that was a clue. 

DH and I have said we need to have 1 last try because we never got our last chance. However, as difficult as it has been to decide ... we won't be using my eggs. We wouldn't feel confident with them any more and we'd rather have an excellent chance from eggs we know are top quality rather than pure guesswork and most probably more heartache by using my own.

So we are now looking into donor embryo donation/adoption abroad (UK lists are very long and expensive and the clinics that offer it few and far between).

Although it was nerve-wracking to begin with and a bit scary, I've done quite a bit of research in the past week since EC and have learned a lot and we really do feel it's our best option. Due to the costs abroad we may even get to have 2 chances, which would be fab. We shall be getting into debt to do this, but we feel we have to do it and can soon pay it all back. 

We feel like we're starting from scratch again, which is good in a way because some of the old excitement and hope has started to return (I completely lost this after last December's failure and didn't have any hope or excitement at all this 2nd IVF try). I'm really hoping this will be the answer for us. We're hoping to go for it in October, all being well. Just got to narrow our choices down and do a bit more research.

If this doesn't work then we'll start the long road towards adoption, but we feel like we have to give donor embryo a chance first.

I think of you all often - not just those I've met along the way on this thread, but even those of you I've not 'spoken' to on here. Because I think of ladies and men out there dealing with azoospermia most days and it makes me so sad. I do so hope that medical advances will one day soon mean that this sort of infertility just isn't an issue.


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## Chimera

Hi all,

I have spent the last 5 hours reading from the beginning of these posts and thought I had to post before bed! Deb111 thank you for encouraging members and popping up on google for me, I think its great you are still on here supporting others. So many of your stories have had me in a whirl of emotions. Its great to see so much care and support.

My boyfriend and I have been together for 7 years and ttc for just over two years. I'm 28 and he's 29. We went to the doctors at around 17 months and have been referred to urologists, to specialists and back to urologists. I'm sure they are all repeating the same tests and we're not going anywhere fast.
They have diagnosed DH with azoospermia and they suspect it;s obstructive. My tests have come back mostly fine, I am by definition polycystic in right ovary but they said this is not an issue.

Currently we are waiting on an appointment to see what a different urologist says about possible surgery for him. Has any one had corrective surgery? I know Deb mentioned in a much earlier post that this was not recommended for low success rates. Otherwise and most likely they we will need IVF. Both concern me as they haven't even taken a sample or checked to see if there is any sperm.

Thanks for reading! x


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## arzoo

Hi All, thought of posting a quick update post our appointment yesterday.

Initially I was pleased at the way the appointment went, but.... there is always a but. Before that, a brief about the appointment. We were well prepared and had a list of things we wanted to discuss with the doctor. Mr Ramsay was very patient and answered all the things we had in our list. We went through things for example..... DH had been hurt once playing football, his mother has ulceric Colitis and so on. What was little surprising was the doctor was not even keen to examine DH to check if he had undecended testicles. We had to sort of ask him to do the examination. We had already done the basic tests which he had already gone through and given the high FSH determined that it was NOA. He asked us to do some further tests and also to do a scan for vericocele. He explained to us that post the tests he will determine if DH needs to be given any medication to boost our chance of finding a sperm. He asked us to repeat some of the tests which we had done on NHS , I was not very pleased about having to repeat those tests now and having to pay for it.

I mentioned to him that DH was having wellman tablets which he asked to continue. So we are waiting to get these tests done and then go back to see him again in 2 weeks time. I do not have the paper with me, but next time I log in I will update about the additional blood tests which we have been asked to do.
Now about the "but,...." I think after the long wait , which in our case was about 2 month (since we have gone private) I was hoping to have some magic answers to the big question of - is there hope for us to have our own biological child and I did not get any. I know I was a little naive to hope for that answer this early on. But still a little disappointed.


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## Hopeful Cat

Wow lots of action on this forum. Firstly welcome to the newbies...sorry to here of ur infertility journeys so far but I hope u find comfort and support hete. Regardless of extent of infertility we r all struggling with the same heartbreak.

Tulip - ive had some delayed appointments with our specialists if they were callerd into surgery. Once u start ur ivf cycle things can become very time-sensitive and they will take priority over general appointments. Could this b the case for you?

Arzoo - ive only been on private and we only got a percentage chance after many many appointments. They gave us a tiny chance of finding sperm and they found some. They havent given us a chance of falling pregnant or having a resulting baby though...just for finding sperm


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## Deb111

Chimera - glad you found us.
Not sure if I am reading this correctly, but are you saying they have diagnosed azoo WITHOUT doing a semen analysis???


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## Chimera

Hi all, I am waLking to work so sorry about the short reply, I will check again later. deb my boyfriend has had 3 sa all coming back 0. All blood rests done for both. 

Regarding appointments last month we were given one for end of Sept so I rang and asked for a cancellation and they gave me end of August. I'm going to try and move it forward again today. I'm nhs and with ucl, worth a try to those waiting ages 

Also I hoped for same magic answers every appointment, Its very frustrating. I hope you feel better today x


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## silverbell

arzoo said:


> Now about the "but,...." I think after the long wait , which in our case was about 2 month (since we have gone private) I was hoping to have some magic answers to the big question of - is there hope for us to have our own biological child and I did not get any. I know I was a little naive to hope for that answer this early on. But still a little disappointed.

To be honest it's too early for him to say. We had a similar first consultation with him and had hoped for more, but in hindsight I think he doesn't want to give anybody false hopes and without all these tests and things he is requesting he really doesn't want to say as he can't possibly know at this stage. It wasn't until our later appointment that he gave us what he believed to be the percentage rate of success for our particular case and I think even then we asked him for this as we needed a rough idea so that we knew what to prepare ourselves for. 

As for the tests that need repeating, I would ask your GP if they would re-take them. That's what we did (although we did see Mr Ramsay privately initially and then got referred to him via the NHS and saw him that way).


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## arzoo

It is really sad to see new people joining in. Welcome Chimera. Thanks for ur note silver bell. Out NHS appointment is only mid September and my impatience won't let me wait till then, so we are getting the tests done privately we are trying to see if we can get the tests done this week so we can go back to see mr Ramsay earlier. 

Debs you are amazing. Your story and fighting spirit gives me a lot of courage to go through this difficult time.


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## MrsG30

Morning ladies,

Hope your all ok?
Hi to the new girls, sorry to find you here but we will all help as much as we can in this shitty situation. Like someone else said earlier we might have diff reasons for azoo and be at diff stages in treatment but I'm pretty sure the horrid feeling I have deep in the pit off my stomach and the constant nerves I have you all feel too. Please don't feel alone.

silverbell- thanks for the update, always interesting to read others journeys and plans. 

I'm in the UK and using the NHS and I must be honest I have had no problems (so far) with the NHS, I know its a postcode lottery and I believe I'm one the lucky ones as where I live we been told we get 6 rounds of IUI then 3 IVF/ICSI with possible 4th free if I donate some eggs to trial and our fertility centre is only 10 minutes away.This has calmed me slightly as I don't know what we would do if it wasn't available to us.
As for appointment times, DH had his original Azoo diagnose is Feb, so 4 months ago, in that time he has had blood work done, seen the urologist, seen a councillor, I've had all my scans an bloodwork done, our donor has had his initial appointment and were just waiting for a timeplan for treatment coming through. the only thing which frustrates me is the time they take to prepare the DS.
Our DR is currently working with our donors DR to remove some of the tests an unknown donor would need and he is family so I'm hoping it will reduce the time and we can get started quicker. Seems silly as we all get seen at the same clinic but due to some law we cant be seen together and the DR's can only discuss on our say so.

I am currently waiting for my AMH level test to come back and I must admit it's got me a nervous wreck???

any news anyone? any appointment's looming? any results coming through?

Hope your all ok xxxx


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## gem10

Thanks ladies for the warm welcome. We took our IVF class last night and we spoke to our nurse afterwards. When we first met with the doctor he was pushing us to get donor sperm as a back up in case they don't find anything during the TESE procedure. Well, after searching for weeks we narrowed it down to three. We paid the $75 to get pictures of our final three and none of them even came close to looking like my husband. I immediately became so frustrated. I don't want to get back up. I kept wondering why can't they do the procedure and if there's nothing there just freeze my eggs and then we will look for a donor? So, I think that's what we have decided to do, even though the chances of having good eggs after freezing them are much lower than fertilizing them then freezing them. 

The nurse also spoke to me about my uterus, which they found was heart shaped during my HSG. She has a feeling they may want to do exploratory surgery, but we won't know for sure until our appointment tomorrow. 

My husband can't understand why I'm so upset about it. But it feels like we are so close and I was thinking we could even be implanted as soon as next month, but now (if he even has sperm) we will have to freeze the embryos to correct my problem. It just feels like this is never going to happen for us :cry:


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## Chimera

Thank you all for welcoming me! 

MrsG30 you have done loads in the last few months. I'm glad you're on a roll!

Gem10 i'm sorry to hear about your news and that you have to wait, it's good that the doctor sounds like he has a plan in mind though. Good luck for tomorrow! 

Can I ask what anyone's first urologist appointment was like after they said it's azoo? I can just imagine we'll pay another small fortune to get there and they'll give us five minutes to send us away for months on end again.


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## gem10

Thanks Chimera. I've been waiting for this appointment for weeks, I can't wait for tomorrow to get here.

When our doctor confirmed there were zero sperm, he told us "It looks like you're going to have to IVF" Which to me, was good news, because I figured there was no hope at all. He referred us to our IVF doctor and at that first meeting we set up when we would start IVF which actually moved very quickly. We went mid-June and we are set to have eggs retrieved at the end of the month. They are coordinating the TESE procedure so that it will be done the day before the egg retrieval. They are also doing the procedure with the embryologist there so they can test the samples as they get them to get the best possible result. I know how you feel. When we found out we had to meet with a fertility specialist I was thinking, great, more consultations and weeks of waiting, but like I said, it actually moved pretty quickly.

I hope that helps!


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## rdleela

Chimera said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have spent the last 5 hours reading from the beginning of these posts and thought I had to post before bed! Deb111 thank you for encouraging members and popping up on google for me, I think its great you are still on here supporting others. So many of your stories have had me in a whirl of emotions. Its great to see so much care and support.
> 
> My boyfriend and I have been together for 7 years and ttc for just over two years. I'm 28 and he's 29. We went to the doctors at around 17 months and have been referred to urologists, to specialists and back to urologists. I'm sure they are all repeating the same tests and we're not going anywhere fast.
> They have diagnosed DH with azoospermia and they suspect it;s obstructive. My tests have come back mostly fine, I am by definition polycystic in right ovary but they said this is not an issue.
> 
> Currently we are waiting on an appointment to see what a different urologist says about possible surgery for him. Has any one had corrective surgery? I know Deb mentioned in a much earlier post that this was not recommended for low success rates. Otherwise and most likely they we will need IVF. Both concern me as they haven't even taken a sample or checked to see if there is any sperm.
> 
> Thanks for reading! x

Hi, glad you found us! We had obstructive azoos, and we had a successful surgery, and have had sperm return. Please read my journal for more info (link below) and also PM me if you have any questions, at all!


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## Stinas

HI everyone! Hope all is well with you ladies!

Hello to all the new ladies. I hate to see new people here. Its a super hard journey, but all these lovely ladies have helped tremendously. Its nice to know you are not alone and people here truly understand everything you are going through and how you are feeling. 

As for me...finally got AF after our D&C/Miscarriage. On BCP's right now until I get back from vacation later this month, then we will start our FET. If that does not work, we have decided on the same surgery rdleela had, but our doc will also do a TESE at same time, minus the extra cuts. Somehow he said he can get tissue at same time going through the same entrance?...something like that. 
I am just hoping it all works with the FET, then im done lol


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## rdleela

Stinas said:


> As for me...finally got AF after our D&C/Miscarriage. On BCP's right now until I get back from vacation later this month, then we will start our FET. If that does not work, we have decided on the same surgery rdleela had, but our doc will also do a TESE at same time, minus the extra cuts. Somehow he said he can get tissue at same time going through the same entrance?...something like that.
> I am just hoping it all works with the FET, then im done lol

So happy you are getting ready for your FET now, get the ball rolling again! I was surprised to read that you guys would try the same surgery we had! What was it that got you guys thinking of going down that path? Please let me know if I can help you in anyway! ;) but I agree, hope this FET is your baby! Would DH consider getting the surgery done anyways, so that if u decided to have baby #2, it could be through a different path? Just curious :)


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## Stinas

rdleela said:


> So happy you are getting ready for your FET now, get the ball rolling again! I was surprised to read that you guys would try the same surgery we had! What was it that got you guys thinking of going down that path? Please let me know if I can help you in anyway! ;) but I agree, hope this FET is your baby! Would DH consider getting the surgery done anyways, so that if u decided to have baby #2, it could be through a different path? Just curious :)

We have one vial of tissue left from TESE, we are not sure how much sperm is left, if any in it. Plus we have decided that if this FET does not work, we wouldnt want to use that sperm anyways if it is going to get us the same results. So if the surgery does not work, at least we got a little more tissue. What upsets me is that if we do decide to do the surgery, we would have to leave our fertility center because they wont allow our urologist to do the TESE at the same time. 
I kind of would like him to do the surgery even if this works, but I wouldnt mind if he does not want to as well. At this point we will be happy with whatever we get, whether its one baby or twins. I am exhausted....but then again, I guess we will just have to see what happens...and how we feel at that point.


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## rdleela

I completely get your train of thought! The one thing I would caution you on with the surgery we had, is that it will take a long time for sperm to show up, so that's why I mention baby #2...it could be a long term plan for you guys...I think it's awesome they could extract some tissue at the same time, and get you going with that quicker! We didn't even have that option because we weren't dealing with surgeon who was with a fertility clinic. I'm happy you guys have more options to consider!!!


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## Stinas

rdleela - Oh I know it takes a long time for the sperm to come back, if it even works. I have learned now that none of this stuff happens right away lol 
Our fertility clinic is connected to a hospital near me....our urologist is connected with another hospital ten min away, but was allowed to do surgery at our clinic. Problem is, that in order to do that big surgery as well as the TESE at the same time would have to be at the hospital he is affiliated with. Which means I will have to change fertility clinics. Makes me feel like I am starting all over again. If this FET does not work, I will ask my doc if they can bend the rules a bit since I have been with them for a year now and have had multiple failures. I know someone who has had a singleton as well as twins through the other fertility center, so it makes me feel a bit better, but the place I am with now I am used to and its five min from my house. 
I guess I shouldnt think too far ahead. I hope this FET works and then I wont have to think about much for a while, if at all.


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## arzoo

We went for our second appointment with Mr Ramsay and thought of posting a quick update. 

Warning....long story ahead.

We were meeting him today to decide the next course of action. Mr Ramsey wanted to check J's hormone levels to see if there was any benefit in putting him on medication. But since his FSH was already high and Testosterone levels normal. He was not sure if the tablets would help but he suggested J have in preparation for the microTese.

He was very patient and took us through our options and the chances. We had already made up our mind that doing a SSR even if it gave us just 1% chance was better than not having a chance at all. He explained that chances of finding sperms in normal cases was about 40 % and chances of finding anything that can be used is down to 20 %. However given that hormones levels are already high, J's chances are further lowered to only 10 %. 

This was very disheatening to hear that in an already challenged world our chances were further reduced. As we sat that I had to keep telling myself not to cry, as once I started then there was no stopping me and I wanted to be in control of my emotions to have a conversation and ask the questions I had in mind.

He also made it clear that in 2 months time J had to go for another SA . The main purpose of this one would be to find a single sperm. This would give him more confidence in finding sperms during SSR. And then he would start a synchronised cycle for us. But if they dont find a single sperm then the chances are further lower. In this case, he will not do a synchronised cycle, He will freeze whatever he finds. I did not understand this part. I asked him if I was ready to take the chances and ok to have a synchronised cycle even if the SA came out negative, would he go ahead. He response was that he will not be. I did not fully understand this point. I am kicking myself now for not asking him the reasons for this. Does anyone know why they don&#8217;t do synchronised cycles in those cases where they dont find a single sperm?


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## MoBaby

Probably so you can be mentally prepared to use donor sperm in case you dont fod anything. But our new re Does sync cycles with tese and allows Donor sperm to be available if none are found. Sorry about the news you received. Hopefully they can find a speem with dh next SA.


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## Hopeful Cat

Hey arzoo - does a synchronized cycle mean a fresh cycle? Our specialist would only do a fresh cycle for us because we hadnt found any sperm and so if we did find some it would be risky to chance losing some in a defrost. We only had 5-10% chance of finding sperm too. Its really hard news to here :hugs:. But its a chance so please try to hold on to the positive. Xx

Could there be another reason why they dont want to do a fresh cycle in your case? At my clinic they were confident in their egg freezing technique so if we didnt find sperm they could freeze my eggs to use wi th a donor.


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## deafgal01

Gem- I too have a heart shaped uterus, which I was already aware of since early 2012, it however does not seem to be an issue in my case but it does vary. Biggest thing they might worry about is that heart shape divided by a wall? That might be the reason they want to explore further but I only had ultrasounds, not surgery.


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## arzoo

Thank you Mobaby and Hopeful cat. Yes if the next SA does not have even a single sperm then we do have the option of doing a synchronised cycle if we opt for donor sperm. If not , they will not prepare me and extract eggs, but would wait to see the result of the SSR and if they are any sperms they would free it. In which case the whole issue of the sperms surviving the thaw. 

:( I am just not ready to even consider Donor sperm. We are seeing Mr Ramsey again in september, I have time till then to toy with the idea. But at this point in time I am not even ready to think about the donor route. I know there are not many choices ahead.


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## MoBaby

Honestly arzoo I wish I would have considered donor sperm a long time ago. But I don't think you should give up on dh until you feel ready to go through with that. It has taken us 5 embryo transfers and multiple SAs and therapies, eto to get here. We are using our last 2 embryos next week. I hope the next SA is good for you guys. Have dh take fertility supplements which could help. Fx for you.


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## arzoo

Good Luck MoBaby, hope it all goes well next week


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## MoBaby

We go Saturday! My ticker says Thursday but I od a day later (late in day) so now it's Saturday. Our last biological embryos of DHs! Please stick little baby (ies)!


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## MrsG30

morning Girls.
Arzoo- bigs hugs for you- take time to consider your options. I know you nor ready for DS, just bear it in your mind as just another option to get you what you want. 

Mobaby- good luck-got my fingers x'd for you.

AFM- we've had a horrendous week, I'm just about keeping it together here. On Thursday when i got home from work, I received a text from a neighbor to say they had received some post for us and could i pop over. when i did she was grey and said i should sit down, she was holding our mail in her hand opened. It was from the clinic and had everything in it, everything. The cause, the treatments, the outcomes, the lot. 
She hadn't even looked at front of envelope just opened it. The clinic had put our door number on wrong!! Had to explain everything to her. Was awful. Felt so bad. 
Came home and spoke to clinic who could only apologise?!?!!?!?!

Then went on a hen party this weekend and 1 of my closest friend told me she is pregnant, felt so bad but it ruined my whole weekend and really didnt want to start feeling this way. DH has took it really bad esp as her DH also had mumps!!! 
then to top it off my best friend is due her baby anytime now, sh has gone 5 days over her due date and is going in for a sweep today,
Then just this morning my neighbour is now pregnant by accident!?!!?!?

I eel so selfish for feeling like this but i cant control it.


xxxx


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## MoBaby

I'm soo sorry mrsg. I hope this week is better. With this IF stuff it seems like people are always coming at you with news you don't want to hear. How awful the clinic put the wrong address on your mail! So sorry :(


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## Hopeful Cat

I am so sorry MrsG. It s a horrible feeLing to have somebody find out about your struggles when you want them to. Don't feel bad about how you are feeling towards the others getting pregnant and having babies. It is a completely normal feeLing and infertility is no walk in th e park. We all need to grieve for the pregnancy story we have lost. Take all the time you need. .. you will feel better xx


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## arzoo

Thank you Mrs G30. Really sorry to hear about your neighbour opening the post.

Regarding using DS.It is very difficult to explain but I am very conservative and J is only partner I ever had, and even the whole thought of having to bear another person's baby almost feels like I am being violated. Not sure why I am sharing this but just thought of expressing the dilemma or mental block that I am having.

I know it really hurts when you hear other people are pregnant, I feel extremely hurt when I see random pregnant people in the supermarket or train. J told me off for feeling jealous , but I think I am not jealous but just in grief that I may never be able to be pregnant


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## MoBaby

arzoo i felt the same way but now I know that we have tried all we could (3 IVF/soon to be 3 FETs) and I want to carry my own child so I have finally just not that long ago come to the conclusion we need to move on if we dont get pregnant with DS. We (well, I am not) are not ready to adpot. 

I think you should try all you are willing to try with DH before deciding if that is the next step with you. And I do believe you could be successful with the TESE and IVF/ICSI. It only takes one so even if only one little man is found then it could come your forever baby. The feelings are perfectly normal. I still think how am I going to feel when I have another man's DS inside me? But just remember you both will love that baby as it was made from the both of you if you do go that way. This journey really stinks!

PS: About how you feel about pregnant women: I swear pregnant women are stalking me. Everywhere I go and look there is some random big belly or some random pregnancy announcement. I didnt go to a baby shower yesterday because I couldnt stand it as her baby is due at the same time my baby was to be due. I did send a card and gift card with my friend though. I understand your feelings.


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## MrsG30

Thanks for the support girls, I know you all know how I feel.

I'm normally very positive and think my time will come, but i'm really struggling at the minute. My DH works away mid week and i often think how my nights should revolve around a baby/child.

Arzoo- I know where your coming from about the DS, but as mo says its an option and however shitty this may be if its chance of you carrying a baby it has to be looked at as an option. Take your time though, you have other avenues to explore before you need to look into it and hopefully you wot need too.

Big thanks to you all for the help xxx


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## gem10

Hello all,

So at our doctor's appointment on Thursday we discussed my heart shaped uterus. Turns out I will need to do surgery to correct it in August which means we will not be doing our fresh embryo transfer in August as planned. :cry: The doctor wants to move ahead with DH TESE procedure and my egg retrieval at the end of the month. They are going to freeze the embryos and I will have surgery some time in August. I will need time to heal before they can transfer the embryos. That means we may be looking at October now. It's just so frustrating. I feel like I'm letting us down. 

We spoke to the doctor about not wanting to use DS. It just seems like when we narrowed down our choices and paid for the photos no one looked even close to what we expected. It's just not fair. They say there's so many to choose from, but we felt the opposite. Anyway, the doctor did not like this idea and really wants us to have a back up in case they don't find anything. He feels that there's a fair chance that they won't. I feel the same as you ladies. It's an option, but it's also very difficult to accept.

MrsG30 don't feel badly about having feelings when you're around pregnant people. I feel the same. I went to a baptism and it was all I could do to hold back tears during the church. Also two of my best friends are pregnant now too. It's not that I'm not happy for them, it's just difficult to hear about their pregnancy when it feels like I'll never get there. DH gets annoyed with me too. He says I should be happy for people, not jealous. I don't think it's jealousy, it's just hard. Only we can truly understand that. Hang in there everyone. I think of you all often.


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## deafgal01

What is wrong with your heart shaped uterus? Is there a wall or something in the way that the dr wants to correct it before you undergo any tries at a pregnancy?


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## arzoo

Help ... I have not had the Rubella vaccination. Given that we are soon to go through IVF , does anyone know if it is mandatory to have had the vaccination. What I want to avoid is reach our turn at the centre and then be told to wait for another 3 months to take the vaccination.


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## MoBaby

Arzoo I know it was a requirement for me at my clinic but I am in the US not UK so I am not sure. I would think so as if you were to be infected when pregnant it could be bad. Can you get it soon before your appt?


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## gem10

@deafgal01 I am actually going to have an MRI tomorrow to see if it is a septum (basically a muscle separating my uterus) or if it is truly just a heart shaped uterus. Regardless, they need to surgery either way. If it is a septum it is correctable and they can make it a "normal" uterus and then proceed to transfer two embryos. If it is a heart shaped uterus they are just going to go in and remove some polyps that showed up in the HSG. In that case they would transfer just one embryo on the best side. Hopefully tomorrow I'll find out which I have. I'm hoping for a septum...fingers crossed.


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## deafgal01

Gem- good luck! That makes a lot of sense. I've not had to do a MRI for mine yet. I've only had HSG, and the 3d ultrasound so far. Still waiting to see if my dr is satisfied with the amount of info from me or if he wants me to do more tests.

I'll hope for a septum that is easily fixed for you so that you can just proceed with two embryos.

I hope everyone else is hanging in there regardless of where you are in your journey- whether it's the start of azoospermia journey or near the end of finally getting pregnant or even adopting.


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## Luvoboe

Hello again,
Mind if I join again? I haven't been here for a while because this has been so hard and I tend to shut down when things get hard. I don't know if I still belong because my husband has been taking hcg and gonal-f for a while and it seems to have worked. We have sperm now and have a consult to see what we need to do next. 
I still could use some buddies while going through this but I don't want to rub salt in anyone's wounds.


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## deafgal01

Of course you can still be a part. I am happy to hear they managed to find something that works for your husband!


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## silverbell

MrsG, I'm so sorry. If I had opened post like that I have to say I think I would have had to put it in a new envelope or something and pretend I'd never seen it - for both your sakes. I would have been mortified. I'm so sorry this happened.



arzoo said:


> Regarding using DS.It is very difficult to explain but I am very conservative and J is only partner I ever had, and even the whole thought of having to bear another person's baby almost feels like I am being violated. Not sure why I am sharing this but just thought of expressing the dilemma or mental block that I am having.

I know the decision to use donor sperm is hard, but the way I saw it was that it was the only chance DH and I had at getting pregnant and having a baby together and I have to be honest the thought that I would be bearing somebody else's baby entered my head only fleetingly before I dismissed it and perhaps that's why we made our decision fairly easily. That donor sperm is going to be fertilising your egg because of the incredible amount of love, determination and courage the 2 of you have together. It will be 100% your baby together. Fair enough, it won't be genetically related to your DH, but in my personal opinion genetics are overrated. That baby will grow up with the love and attention from you both and will inherit so many things you wouldn't have thought you could pass on. I have read so many stories of couples laughing at how many times they've been told a donor-conceived child looks just like their Dad or has the same mannerisms and habits. 

I do think you need to get to a certain point though where you can fully accept using donor sperm to create your family. It's a difficult choice to make - one of the hardest, I'm sure - but once you've made it and you're at peace with it, it really won't matter to either of you. I promise.

DH and I have now gone a step further and will be using donor embryo as it appears we've been dealt a very poor hand and I have rubbish eggs. So we're using both donor sperm and donor eggs. We just want to have a baby now and create our family. We could adopt, but it's a very lengthy process and to be honest we both really would like to experience pregnancy and birth and a newborn. We're looking at this as a sort of adoption, but right from conception. Although any potential child will share neither of our DNA, it'll be 100% our child because it will exist due to us and will have had my blood and my body helping it to grow and then our love and care once it's born.

Totally understand that using donor gametes is not for everybody though and you need to decide between yourselves as a couple if it's right for you. :hugs:


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## BrandyRelax

Luvoboe said:


> Hello again,
> Mind if I join again? I haven't been here for a while because this has been so hard and I tend to shut down when things get hard. I don't know if I still belong because my husband has been taking hcg and gonal-f for a while and it seems to have worked. We have sperm now and have a consult to see what we need to do next.
> I still could use some buddies while going through this but I don't want to rub salt in anyone's wounds.

Of course! We'd still love to have you! 

Firstly, I am so happy for you that it did work! It's not a common cure, and it gives all of us hope that maybe something would work for our hubbies as well. Mine's on HCG (no gonal f though), and he's not shown any change, but we still have a couple of weeks before the second surgery! Fingers Crossed!

Brandy


----------



## Luckneeded

Hi Deb,

Completely new to this site, but we are azoospermic too. Iv just posted a new thread, azoospermia and us.... TTC a miracle baby. Any information or support would be much appreciated! 

H xx


----------



## MrsG30

Silverbell, I know, my poor friend who it went too is heart broken. Feel bad or here never mind myself. I love your attitude to DS xxx


silverbell said:


> MrsG, I'm so sorry. If I had opened post like that I have to say I think I would have had to put it in a new envelope or something and pretend I'd never seen it - for both your sakes. I would have been mortified. I'm so sorry this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> arzoo said:
> 
> 
> Regarding using DS.It is very difficult to explain but I am very conservative and J is only partner I ever had, and even the whole thought of having to bear another person's baby almost feels like I am being violated. Not sure why I am sharing this but just thought of expressing the dilemma or mental block that I am having.
> 
> I know the decision to use donor sperm is hard, but the way I saw it was that it was the only chance DH and I had at getting pregnant and having a baby together and I have to be honest the thought that I would be bearing somebody else's baby entered my head only fleetingly before I dismissed it and perhaps that's why we made our decision fairly easily. That donor sperm is going to be fertilising your egg because of the incredible amount of love, determination and courage the 2 of you have together. It will be 100% your baby together. Fair enough, it won't be genetically related to your DH, but in my personal opinion genetics are overrated. That baby will grow up with the love and attention from you both and will inherit so many things you wouldn't have thought you could pass on. I have read so many stories of couples laughing at how many times they've been told a donor-conceived child looks just like their Dad or has the same mannerisms and habits.
> 
> I do think you need to get to a certain point though where you can fully accept using donor sperm to create your family. It's a difficult choice to make - one of the hardest, I'm sure - but once you've made it and you're at peace with it, it really won't matter to either of you. I promise.
> 
> DH and I have now gone a step further and will be using donor embryo as it appears we've been dealt a very poor hand and I have rubbish eggs. So we're using both donor sperm and donor eggs. We just want to have a baby now and create our family. We could adopt, but it's a very lengthy process and to be honest we both really would like to experience pregnancy and birth and a newborn. We're looking at this as a sort of adoption, but right from conception. Although any potential child will share neither of our DNA, it'll be 100% our child because it will exist due to us and will have had my blood and my body helping it to grow and then our love and care once it's born.
> 
> Totally understand that using donor gametes is not for everybody though and you need to decide between yourselves as a couple if it's right for you. :hugs:Click to expand...




Luckneeded said:


> Hi Deb,
> 
> Completely new to this site, but we are azoospermic too. Iv just posted a new thread, azoospermia and us.... TTC a miracle baby. Any information or support would be much appreciated!
> 
> H xx

Hi H
Welcome, were here to help, where is your new thread? x


----------



## MrsG30

Hi Ladies
Hope your all well?

Update from me? I was called to the clinic this week beacause of the data protection issue with the letter going to the wrong address.
I must admit it was the most informative clinic app ive had yet, I cant hep but feeling there bending backwards for me so We dont kick up a stir. I sill have the option to mae a formal complaint if we wish too however..............

DS wil be ready September, as its a known donor the clinic are wiling to waver the freeze/thaw system and also some of the tests. I'm over joyed with this, apparently they have froze some of a test sample and there happy with it so when my BIL gives us donation in September, that is ours to use. I still expected that to be quarantined but apparently not.
I do feel there just trying to keep us happy as they know i can seek legal advice over the letter. I'm trying hoping something useful is going to come out of this nightmare?

I feel positive having a time frame, we just need legal papers and Counseling session out the way now and hopefully were ready to go?
am i being to positive?
xxxxx


----------



## Hopeful Cat

MrsG im glad uve got a timeframe now :happydance: we dont get many chances to be positive and happy through our infertility journeys so I say enjoy the positivity!

HI and welcome Luckneeded...you'll find lot of information and support here xx


----------



## gem10

Hey all,

So the MRI showed a bicornuate uterus, not a septum. :( So we will proceed as planned and I will have a hysteroscopy in August. I'm very nervous about this because they said something about putting a balloon in my uterus for a week after surgery, which sounds painful. They also said they want to refer me to a high risk doctor before implanting the one embryo (no twins in our future), which also makes me nervous because I'm at high risk for preterm labor or late miscarriage. 

So all of this, on top of DH sperm issues. I am beginning to feel that if we have a baby it will truly be a miracle. Still looking for DS. I'm still not 100% about it, but I keep thinking if I go through all of this, and we have no sperm to fertilize my eggs we will regret it. I just wish we could find someone we are comfortable with. It helps to hear how others feel. I think you get to a point where you just want a baby for you and your husband to raise. No matter what, you'll be the parents. It's tough, but in the end, you'll still be parents. Which is a blessing.

Anyway, I start my shots tomorrow for IVF. Given my fear of needles, this should be interesting!

Welcome to the newbies, and hope everyone is doing well on their journey.


----------



## Luvoboe

Thanks for the welcome. 
Brandy,
Hcg did nothing for my husband's count. He was on it a year and it was always zero. That's when they decided to add the gonal-f. It still did nothing, so they doubled the dose and that's when we started seeing a change. So if the hcg doesn't work maybe try the gonal-f too? All through the treatment our doctor seemed hopefully even when my husband and I both felt pretty defeated. This has been so hard. We are running tests on me now. Hopefully things check out. I'll have to catch up on things before I can really jump into the thread. I'm sure a lot has gone on while I was gone.


----------



## MrsG30

Morning ladies

Hope your all having a fab weekend, I'm after a bit of advice.
as you all know, we are using my BIL for our DS.

He has had his letter back from her test sample and it states IUI is a no go as the sample after freeing isn't strong enough? the letter states My treatment with be ICSI.

Should I be worried about his sperm quality?
i wasn't overjoyed with 6 rounds of IUI anyway as the success rating to so low, so i happy to go straight to iv/icsi, but i'm worried now the sperm isnt going to be good enough?

Any ideas? xxx


----------



## MoBaby

mrsG did your DH have the TESE? I cant remember? If they are recommending ICSI anyways it may be worth doing the TESE and seeing if they get anything and having the BIL on hand for backup. I can't remember if you already talked about that or not? Dont worry about the quality or anything; with ICSI they pick which ones to inject. My DH had very bad sperm and we have done 3 fresh rounds of ICSI.


----------



## MrsG30

Mobaby- thanks for reply.

That's the plan, what i don't understand is why they have recommended my BIL and i has ICSI and not normal IVF?
Nor sure if this is just normal for my clinic of if BIL count isn't great? His letter said his sample was as normal as expected on when producedbut not viable for IUI, but can be used in ICSI?

maybe i'm reading to much into it?

congrats to your hun, hope your babies stick xxxx


----------



## MoBaby

Do you have the numbers? Maybe it was due to motility or morphology? Can you call and ask why?


----------



## MrsG30

Nope there was no figures in the letter it just saying "sample was normal when produced but not viable for IUI after the thawing process"?

Yeah im going to call them tomorrow, Im not sure if our clinic always does ICSI or if they is any issue. x


MoBaby said:


> Do you have the numbers? Maybe it was due to motility or morphology? Can you call and ask why?


----------



## Chimera

Hi all,

I have been ofline for a little while as have been away from home.

rdleela- thank you for the response. I would be interested to read your blog, but couldn't see the link as you'd said. Could you send it again? I noticed you and Sinas mentioned it takes a while for sperm to come back, which I didn't know. How long did you have to wait?
We are waiting to see another urologist at the end of August. It still feels like forever away and I was wondering what our first appointment will be like. I guess they'll discuss options and then send us away again for a few months?

MrsG30, I'm glad you are feeling better after your bad week. I'm really pleased that they now seem to be bending over backwards to help. I hope a real positive comes from your experience. A timeframe is a massive plus, you should be positive.
I don't know anything about Iv/Icsi so sorry I can't advise at all.
I feel your pain with pregnancy anoucements. My 18 year old brother has just told me tonight that his girlfriend is expecting. They didn't plan this and he is in shock. I cried as I feel he is too young and I still feel responsible for him. Selfishly i'm sad for us too as we so want one and it will be hard having this so close.

Mobaby and arzoo I also feel that pregant people are everywhere. Its weird, when your aware of wanting a child, suddenly you can't escape seeing children and pregnant people. My OH also doesn't understand my jealously, i'm sure he thinks i'm wanting to be hurt sometimes.

Gem10 i'm sorry to hear you have to have surgery. Its good that they are planning to freeze the embryos for when you are recovered and ready so their isn't such a delay.

Does anyone talk to close friends about this? I keep wondering whther its a good idea or not.

Thanks X


----------



## rdleela

Chimera said:


> rdleela- thank you for the response. I would be interested to read your blog, but couldn't see the link as you'd said. Could you send it again? I noticed you and Sinas mentioned it takes a while for sperm to come back, which I didn't know. How long did you have to wait?
> We are waiting to see another urologist at the end of August. It still feels like forever away and I was wondering what our first appointment will be like. I guess they'll discuss options and then send us away again for a few months?
> 
> Does anyone talk to close friends about this? I keep wondering whther its a good idea or not.

Hi, Chimera, so the link to my journal is in my signature below, titled "My Infertility Journal". If you read along, it starts JUST before we got our azoos diagnosis, and then it's every test we've had, plus our surgery and results, etc, etc. It took 5 months until we had sperm return, and that first SA was only 600,000 count. But now we average 1.2 million - 4.0 million each test. They say you can have it increase up to one year post surgery, then what it is, is what it is. Our one-year anniversary of our surgery is Sept.28th.

I think your next apointment needs to be to order a ton of tests on DH.

As for talking to close friends about it, we are very open people, and we tell everyone. I just can't handle sitting there and not saying anything when people talk about kids. But we didn't start out this way, it took awhile for DH to feel really comfortable. Started out with just a few close friends (with DH's permisson) and then it grew to no holding back. Now, as for our first IUI, I've only told a very small group of people, as I don't want to answer "how are you feeling?" or "did it work?" all the time. Same will go for IVF.

Feel free to PM me or write in my journal anytime!


----------



## Chickensoup85

MrsG30 - at my implictions meeting last week, we were told ICSI is used with nearly all frozen sperm so it may not be a reflection on the quality.


----------



## gem10

MrsG30- my fertility clinic does ICSI for all IVF patients. I was surprised to learn this, as I thought we were only having it because we were having TESE, but apparently they do it for everyone because it increases the success rate.

So I have been on shots for a week. I had my first appointment yesterday to see how I am responding. The good news is I am responding very well. I had many follicles and apparently my lining was perfect. But the nurse practitioner said something that confused me. She said that my lining is so perfect they could do a single embryo transfer. So I asked, does that mean I won't need surgery? (Since, we were already planning a single embryo transfer after surgery for my heart shaped uterus) She said the plan is not changing bc the doctor has to get in there and see, but my lining was absolutely perfect. So, I'm not too sure what that means, but was happy to finally get some good news. It really made me feel better. I have spent the past month on the couch in a state of depression, but that visit boosted my spirits quite a bit. If nothing else, at least my ovaries work!

We also decided on a back up donor. I have never spent sooo much money on something hoping not to need it! It was a very difficult process. I just feel no one is ever going to compare to my husband. He's so handsome and has so many good qualities. No one will ever be him. So we chose someone with very similar features and whose health background was clear. In the end, all any of us want is a healthy baby. So that's what helped us make our decision. Hubby's procedure is on Tuesday. We are both getting very anxious. I can't believe in just a few days we will know if he has sperm. I'm praying they find something. Like everyone says, all you need is one! I'm asking you all to send thoughts and prayers our way in the next few days, and I will keep you all in my prayers as well.


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## Hopeful Cat

I have u in my prayers and thoughts Gem that u find some sperm. Everything is crossed for u and ur hubby!! :hugs:


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## MoBaby

Azo ladies! It can happen for us :) We did our FET on July 19th. My official test isnt until next week. AF due tomorrow. I pray that God lets up keep this one. These embryos were our last 2 for DH to have a biological child of his own.


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## Stinas

Omg Mo!!!!! Yay!!!! Congrats!!!!!! I'm on my phone waiting to catch a plane home from Vegas..... Had to comment!!!!! Super excited!!


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## BrandyRelax

MoBaby said:


> Azo ladies! It can happen for us :) We did our FET on July 19th. My official test isnt until next week. AF due tomorrow. I pray that God lets up keep this one. These embryos were our last 2 for DH to have a biological child of his own.

Congratulations, sending positive and happy vibes your way!!


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## MrsG30

Congrats lady
have everything x'd for you. whens beta? xxx


MoBaby said:


> Azo ladies! It can happen for us :) We did our FET on July 19th. My official test isnt until next week. AF due tomorrow. I pray that God lets up keep this one. These embryos were our last 2 for DH to have a biological child of his own.


----------



## Chimera

Rdella, i've began reading your journal thank you for the link, your a good writer and it's interesting and helpful for me to read. Its great to know that you've had such a good sperm return and that it can go from nothing upwards. I really don't know much about this and would have thought if it was zero straight after then that would be the result forever. I feel like I need to keep researching to keep me sane in-between appointments.

My boyfriend isn't keen about anyone else knowing and doesn't really like talking about it too much inbetween appointments as he doesn't want reminding. He knows I've told my mum and i've told a few close friends but the friends i've told believe its me having trouble rather than him as I know he'd be upset. I feel bad for him as he doesn't want to talk to people about it but it must be hard. I keep tryign to encourage he speaks with his sister as they are close and hope he will soon.

I've had a hard week as my little brother who is only 18 and ten years younger than me has told me his 24 year old girlfriend is pregnant. They weren't planning on having a baby and he has asked that i'll be there to help them find their way. I feel sad that my brother will have to grow up so quickly and jealous which I feel terrible for feeling. They have been round tonight and I gave them lots of vitamins which I had here for me when I had a couple of false positives last year. 

Gem10 I will be thinking of you Tuesday, I hope it goes really well for you both! I look forward to hearing good news X

What is Beta? Sorry I'm a little lost with some of the terms! I hope it went well Mobaby xx


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## MoBaby

Beta is Friday but I'm going to try to get it earlier


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## arzoo

Hello All, I have been away so just logged in to catch up. Great news MoBaby ! Yea! 

We are still in Limbo state, my appointment comes up in Mid August and J has his in September, its a long wait till then


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## rdleela

Congrats, Mobaby!!! Good luck for an awesome beta!



Chimera said:


> Rdella, i've began reading your journal thank you for the link, your a good writer and it's interesting and helpful for me to read. Its great to know that you've had such a good sperm return and that it can go from nothing upwards. I really don't know much about this and would have thought if it was zero straight after then that would be the result forever. I feel like I need to keep researching to keep me sane in-between appointments.

I'm happy to help with any information you (or anyone else) would like!

Keep researching! It kept me sane, and it kept me feeling like I was really doing something to stay ahead of all the curve balls all the doctors were throwing at us. And actually, if I didn't research and ask questions, we wouldn't be in the position we are in now, so I would encourage you to keep doing so if it's helping you! (We took things into our own hands to get DH the surgery, no urologist in our province could do what our surgeon did. And it was all because of me taking the reins.)


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## Chimera

Thank you! I like knowing what they might ask and being prepared for the questions and i'm not great at thinking on my feet in these high pressure/emotional situations so its definitely helping. Plus like you said the looking makes me feel like i'm being useful or at least keeps me busy. I'm off to France for a long weekend wedding this week which will keep my mind off it all for a bit too! I hope you've all had a good start to the week.


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## tamarah

Hi ladies. 

I joined this thread back in November last year after finding out oh is Azoos. 

Sorry if this turns into a long boring post but so much gone on since last year. 

After we got diagnosis I wanted to try a sperm donor but DP was not impressed with this idea at all. In Dec my oh went to a routine appt with chemical specialist due to taking so many medications. At the time he mentioned he was taking a Chinese herb to help lower cholesterol. Doc informed him to stop immediately as she wasn't aware of what side effects could be. Low and behold he stopped and within seven weeks I got a big fat bfp. Unfortunately I had a missed miscarriage at 10 weeks. 3 cycles later I have conceived again but am only 3 weeks +5. 

Long and short of what I am trying to say is don't give up. Everyone's situation is different but guess a lot of what we have in common is hope. 

It took 8 years to finally bring my Son into the world with my Ex husband (neither of us had fertility issues) 3 years with apparently azoospermia partner. 

Congrats to those who've already got bfp's and fingers crossed and baby dust to all those still waiting. 

Dreams really can come true xxx


----------



## MoBaby

Tamarah: Thanks for your story!! Its amazing that herb was causing DH to have no sperm! I am so sorry about the MC but excited you are pregnant again! Congrats!

Update on me: My BFP is real and my BHCG is 691 today at 11dp blast transfer!! That is my best beta yet so I know this is my forever baby!! This baby is here to stay! YAY! I am so excited now and ladies with persistence we can have babies! This was our 6th and final transfer and by God we are expecting. I know it is early days but I am going to relax and try not to stress at all because I want to enjoy this. I can't wait to hear more about BFPS here!


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## tamarah

That's fantastic news MoBaby :baby: xx


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## rdleela

Congrats Tamarah and mobaby, so good to hear success stories!


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## Chickadeedee

Oh MoBaby!!! I have been waiting for you to post and I am over the moon for you!!!! Enjoy every single minute <3


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## gem10

Congratulations MoBaby!!! That is amazing news!!

So it has been an emotional week for us. My hubby went in for his TESE procedure on Tuesday. When the doctor came out he had a smile on his face so I thought I'd hear good news. He told me they did not find sperm during the surgery. He kept explaining things to me then asked if we had a backup donor. I immediately started crying. I don't think he knew what to say. He let me know that the embryologist took a good amount of tissue back to the lab and there was a still a chance they'd find something. After he told me I had to wait another hour before I could see my hubby. I was glad because it gave me a chance to calm down. I didn't want him to see me upset. When he was finally ready to leave he insisted we drive right to the fertility clinic to speak to the embryologist. I personally didn't want to because I was afraid of what I might hear. When we got there the nurse came out with a very serious look on her face. And before I knew it she said "We have sperm". I nearly fell to the floor! I was hysterical. I could not stop crying!! I never thought I'd hear those words!!!

So we still had some waiting to do to see if the sperm would wake up and start moving. The next day I came in and they told us we had 13 swimmers! So I went under for my retrieval. They got 9 mature eggs from me. I was a little disappointed because I thought they'd get more. I wanted 13! But they explained that they went easy on meds with me because it was my first time and didn't want to overstimulate me. 

So we got the call yesterday that 3 had fertilized and were being frozen! He explained that more could fertilize because testicular sperm tends to take a little longer. So we have our fingers crossed that we will get a phone call that more have fertilized.

I know it's not a lot, but we are closer than I ever thought we'd be. We have three frosties waiting for us!!So I will meet with the doctor next week to schedule surgery for my heart shaped uterus, and if all goes well they will do the transfer mid-September. 

I feel like I'm in a dream. Don't give up hope. This can happen for us ladies! I hope that the good news keeps coming and my transfer works. Like I said, a long road ahead still, but we are one step closer now. 

I continue to think and pray for all of you. Keep faith alive!


----------



## Rainbow123

WOW! So much good news! Congratulations MoBaby, Tamarah and Gem! I am so happy for you all! It's so great to hear about success stories, especially when DH and I have so long to wait until we get to try an mTESE (we've been told 1-2 years, doh!). Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for everyone :) Miles of smiles XXXXXXXXX


----------



## gem10

We got two more! 5 frosties total!


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## MoBaby

Congrats gem!!! Yay!!


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## rdleela

Congrats, Gem!! Exciting stuff!!


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## Stinas

Great News Gem!!!


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Congrats Gem. I felt the seam way when they found 11 sperm for us...we were all crying. It was such a weight off my shoulders. 

Im in the middle of my FET cycle now to return one of our frosties. Im hoping that this time we get a bfp because we so desperately want it and hubby isnt jumping at the opportunit for another mTESE lol. Day 7 atm and im schedule to go in for scan next Thursday.


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## bubumaci

Yay Gem!
Fingers crossed for you Cat! :)


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## arzoo

Congrats Gem, this is such great news.


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## BrandyRelax

So we did our egg retrieval and mTESE yesterday (what a logistical nightmare, but I digress). They retrieved 13 eggs from me which is great! They took a sample from my hubby, and they didn't find anything in it, so they used the frozen sample they had. There were 5 sperm and that resulted in 1 good embryo and 1 that might make it. With the rest of my eggs, they fertilized them with our donor backup and we have 4 good embryos and 1 that might make it.

So all in all a good result provided things keep going as they are. We'll see how it goes, but I just wanted to update to let anyone know who was curious that the HCG didn't make a difference for my hubby, however, we don't know what's causing his azoo, so it's hard to say if there is something else that we should have tried!

Brandy


----------



## bubumaci

Brandy - fingers and toes crossed for you! With my DH it is the same - there is absolutely no reason they can find for the azoo. Tubes clear, all hormones and genetics as they should be ... and still... Maybe as a little boy he had some illness (mumps or similar to mumps) with a high fever that caused his infertility? Who knows (at least that is what I am contemplating). I am so happy that you have managed to have a couple of nice embies after the procedure and really hope that they develop nicely, and once transferred, that they burrow in to become your miracle baby! :dust::dust::dust:


----------



## Hopeful Cat

I have everything crossed for u brandy! Im glad u have embryos to play with.

Afm I hd my lining scan today and all ws good so im booked in for my fet on monday. Feeling very nervous!


----------



## arzoo

Fingers crossed for you Brandy.

Just a quick question , does anyone here know if their DH has vitamin D deficiency. The specialist have not been able to identify the cause for Azoo in our case either and I am desperate to know the cause.


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Arzoo! With my DH, they were not able to find any deficiencies, no blockages, no hormonal imbalances, no genetic disorders ... we have no answers I'm afraid, just unexplained Azoo. The only idea we had was perhaps a viral infection similar to mumps (which is known to cause sterility) when he was a little boy. I thought it might have been the glandular fever he had when he was very little, with an incredibly high fever - but unfortunately, we have no explanation :(


----------



## MoBaby

Arzoo unfortunately azo is most of the time unexplained and nothing can be done to fix it. The dr says my dh is unexplained but he had torsion and an undescended testicle on the opposite side whig we know is most likely the cause.


----------



## Mikihob

BrandyRelax said:


> So we did our egg retrieval and mTESE yesterday (what a logistical nightmare, but I digress). They retrieved 13 eggs from me which is great! They took a sample from my hubby, and they didn't find anything in it, so they used the frozen sample they had. There were 5 sperm and that resulted in 1 good embryo and 1 that might make it. With the rest of my eggs, they fertilized them with our donor backup and we have 4 good embryos and 1 that might make it.
> 
> So all in all a good result provided things keep going as they are. We'll see how it goes, but I just wanted to update to let anyone know who was curious that the HCG didn't make a difference for my hubby, however, we don't know what's causing his azoo, so it's hard to say if there is something else that we should have tried!
> 
> Brandy

Thanks Brandy for the update. I am glad that you have so many good embryos for transfer. I hope you get your BFP right away! DH is currently on HCG. It's expensive but he didn't want Clomid. His three month mark is September 6th so we will order an extra two weeks of HCG and schedule a SA for that time. I keep hearing that HCG didn't work, I wonder why it keeps getting referred if it's not working.


----------



## deafgal01

Arzoo- same here, unexplained. They cannot seem to identify the cause of azoospermia in my husband.

Brandy- good luck!


----------



## arzoo

As I mentioned earlier, my GP has referred me to the Fertility clinic and our first appointment is on the14th, I really dont know what to expect at the appointment. Can someone please share your experience so I can know what to expect. Thank you


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Arzoo - I can tell you what our experiences were (Germany). Once we knew we had an infertility problem, we made our appointment at the fertility clinic. At this point we knew - my cycles were OK, DH had little to 0 sperm with horrendous motility + morphology.

Once we went into the doctor's room, he sat down to talk with us about our options : with DH SA basically only ICSI and due to the limited number of sperm found (max 250 K) IMSI was out of the question. They wanted to do various blood tests (genetic testing, hormone testing) on both of us - to see where we were there. For him - to see what the potential reasons behind his bad SAs were - was it genetic, was it hormonal etc. The next steps would be : a new SA at that clinic. If that didn't work, giving him some drops to take which would open up the tubes a bit more - see if that was the issue - at a second SA. Finally, if all that didn't work, sending him to a Urologist who could do a TESE to try and see if they could get sperm from the source (if it wasn't a tubal blockage). After that, I had to have an ultrasound where he looked at my uterus, my ovaries - promptly said that my ovaries looked like they would produce plenty of eggs when stimulated.

That was pretty much it - they took blood, had all the testing done (which for us showed that everything was normal)... and DH had to make an appt. for his SA. This was our first appointment at our fertility clinic... I don't know how the process is in the UK, but I imagine it would be similar to our experience?

Good luck next week :)

Oh - and no idea what it's like at your clinic, but we had to wait for aaaaages ;)


----------



## arzoo

Thank you babumaci. 
I am kind of expecting delays so I have booked a half day off at work.


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## MoBaby

My experience was similar to bubus except we went to fs then urologist then did the ivf/icsi w/fresh sperm then tried meds with a new re(no help). We didn't wait a long time to see our doctors. We never had the tese done. We left some frozen just in case but pretty much used fresh every try.


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## bubumaci

... yep, same here - didn't need to do the TESE (do have some frozen and for the September ICSI they thawed a straw, as they couldn't get anything from the fresh sample) - have used fresh samples for 3 out of 4 ICSIs :)


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## MoBaby

We used fresh for all ours except #1 they did half and half.


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## gem10

Hello ladies! I haven''t been on in a while. I hope everyone is doing well. It looks like many have unexplained azoo. My hubby had undescended testicles when he was born and had surgery at age 5 to correct the problem. This is the cause of ours. Has anyone looked into possible gluten allergy? I hear this can be a cause as well.

So, we went for our follow-up and were very excited for the positive results of our TESE. We were a little thrown back that our doctor wanted us to do another round of IVF and another TESE to bank more embryos. We were very happy to have 5 fertilize! We agreed that we just can't do it right now. Poor hubby is still recovering, and I feel that I'm just finally feeling like myself again after all of those meds.

But now we are nervous that we don't have enough embryos. Anyway, surgery is the 27th then hopefully FET in September. Hopefully all goes well, and we get our miracle baby from those five. I just keep thinking, all we need is one!!!!


----------



## deafgal01

gluten allergy- no... hadn't thought of that. :shrug:

That's right- all you need is JUST ONE from the FET. I'm crossing all of my possible parts that the FET works in your favor this Sept. I'll send my birthday luck to you!


----------



## arzoo

My husband has vitamin D deficiency. He is currently taking vitamin D tablets. will keep you all posted.


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## arzoo

We had been for our first appointment at the fertility centre at Hammersmith. I will post a detailed report later. but a quick question, the doctor suggested the route ahead was to do a testicular biopsy to understand the cause and also if there are any sperms. Does anyone know how this is different from micr tese. I have read this before but now not able to find that page.


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## MoBaby

The mtese would be the same. They could diagnose the issue possibly and hope to find sperm. Sometimes the specialist will do a biopsy only not the mtese to see if the mtese would be successful.


----------



## Deb111

Arzoo - the mTese is much more invasive. They literally " cut the testicle and open it like a book" as Mr Ramsey put it! A biopsy is usually random and is where they insert a needle and take a small sample of tissue


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## SunUp

Just saying Hi! So happy for you, Mo! Hope your LO is well, Deb!


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## MrsG30

Hi ladies,

How are you all? Do we have any appointments/important dates looming?
Sorry i've been off the radar for a few weeks, my gran passed away so its been a rough few weeks.

I'm going to read through the thread now to see what I have missed.

My hubbys azoo is due to mumps, he had mumps at 21 an ended up in hospital with it.

We are waiting on our donor counselling session which is the 3rd September, then our donor gives his bit for our use on the 5th sept.
So hoping our ICSI will be around oct/nov xxxx


----------



## bubumaci

MrsG - I am so so sorry to hear about your Gran! :hugs: I just lost my Granny and my Mother in May, so I really really feel you! Take care, allow yourself to feel the sorrow - and do whatever you need to help yourself. It is a really really horrid time :( I wish you and your family strength!! :hugs:

Good luck with your next session! :)


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## keziah23

Hi all. I know I haven't posted in awhile so here is an update
3 month post varicocle repair SA- <2 million (but with no specifics), doc was hopefull that it would continue to increase
6 month post varicocele repair SA-<2 million (2 spun slides total sperm count was 65 with 3 of those normal). 

We have an appointment with an RE tomorrow to start down the IVF path. Plan (pending talking to the doc) is to use fresh sample with the frozen vials from the TESE as backup. 

So surgery helped some, but very little, can take up to a full year to show results but doctor thinks its as good as its going to get since it didn't improve at all between the 3 and 6 month tests. Part of our decision is that my mom passed away in July and I'm tired of waiting. She wanted a grandchild more than just about anything and if I had moved faster I maybe could have given her one. *sigh*


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## snd80

Hi girls! Sorry I have been AWOL, but my world never stops turning, and limbo land doesn't help, but thought it was time to make my comeback to the thread!!!

First a huge congrats to all my girls with BFP's and those making great progress!!!! :thumbup: So happy for each of you! And a huge welcome to the new girls who have sadly had to join us... :hugs:

Now, as for my update... we applied for an IVF grant a few months ago. I poured my heart out to them and told them EVERYTHING, only with the hopes of getting some "sympothy points". They announce the winners Oct 15, so praying we are one of the chosen ones!!!! *BUT*, if not I finally got my bank loan last week and have the cash $ sitting in my safety deposit box waiting on me for one shot at IVF! :happydance: Now I am just waiting to hear if we've won our grant or not, and in the mean time I am gyming it as much as possible and have lost 13 lbs in a month (with the help of Lipozene cause I have gained about 30 lbs since my last failed IUI)... and now to tackle quitting smoking again!!! I have fell off the deep end girls since my last IUI! I pretty much just gave up... but I have a new hope now!!!! 

Hope everyone is well and I will be checking in more often!!! :hugs: to all!!!


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## deafgal01

Snd- hope that all works out and you get the grant which allows you a chance at ivf.

kez- hope things work out for you too.

MrsG- sorry to hear of your loss but good luck on the upcoming session.


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## tulip11

Hi girls sorry i have been MIA ..how are all you doing? Well finally got an appointment letter for 27th August after 4 months. Its long time and even very hard to wait. We ill get to know about 2 SA , blood, urine, ultra sound results .. i dont know whether in this appointment whether we ill be clear about what type of azoo is it ?


----------



## deafgal01

Tulip- I hope the appt helps paint a clear pic of how to proceed. :hugs: the waiting is no fun!

I'm doing good, just found out yesterday that I can proceed with Iui as soon my next cycle starts. So excited!


----------



## tulip11

deafgal01 said:


> Tulip- I hope the appt helps paint a clear pic of how to proceed. :hugs: the waiting is no fun!
> 
> I'm doing good, just found out yesterday that I can proceed with Iui as soon my next cycle starts. So excited!

All the best hun :thumbup: thanks :hugs:


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## MrsG30

hi all, lots of babydust to all.

Deafgal- were you at with all this, I know last time we spoke we at pretty much at same point, our clinic have decided icsi with donor sperm is the way we are going, we our at counselling in a few weeks, the our donor gives is last lot (for now) of swimmers then soon as that is done I presume i'm ready to find out when I will cycle.

tulip-nice too see you, good look for thee 24th and let us know xxx


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## deafgal01

I had consulting appt in June (early June). That same day I had counseling appt too so that was the start really after my bad experience last year at the other clinic where the dr was unprofessional by joking "oh so it is all his fault". That appt the new dr told me he wanted tests on me - not just blood work. So we scheduled my day 3 bloods as soon my cycle started over and that same day they drew enough blood to do the diseases screening. After that point, they turned focus on our known donor and did tests on him which was just completed last week. His first test was mid-July and that was the sa.

Dr also did hsg and ultrasound on me to make sure my parts look good. Uh I cannot think what else.

So yeah, everything came back good so as soon my cycle starts on day 1 we will schedule a natural iui (using opk and then when it is time they will inject the donor's swimmers in me.


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## Izabela

Hi guys. I hope you don't mind me joining. Just started IVF with donor but it looks like my cycle my get cancel due to early ovulation and the implications on the lining. 
Deafgal01 Good luck with your IUI. How much does cost you the cycle. Is the sperm expensive in USA.

Wish everybody all the luck in the world.


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## Izabela

Tulip Good luck with your investigations!

MrsG30 hope you starting soon.


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## deafgal01

For my known donor, I paid $1700. But that is not including iui which is yet to come but I expect that will easily run up to $1000 maybe depending on what's involved. I left my list at home which explains the costs of stuff.

Counseling was $220 for us plus the donor (first counseling session was just hubby and me so just $110).


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## Izabela

Deafgal01 sound expensive. How many vials did you get are you using frozen? In UK we had to pay 1000 euro pregnancy slot and we paid 2200 euro for 5 vials. we bought the donor's from the European Sperm Bank and is an open donor. The sperm is frozen. We want to go ahead with this ICSi but I have to frozen the embies due to early ovulation. If it does not work I was thinking to do IUI but not sure if it works with frozen sperm.
Wish you luck.


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## deafgal01

I am not using the sperm bank- probably cheaper if I went that route but I could not cope knowing my kid has 9 other Half siblings out there we cannot know or contact. So I decided on using one friend in another state. I think they got three vial frozen (maybe 6 no idea) but they said they generally get 3 vials from one sample/donation.

It is starting to feel expensive but it is a choice I can live with.


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## tulip11

Hi
Urologist has prescribed clomiphene to my hubby for 3 months after that again there ill be SA. he said that my hubby testosterone level is on border line means its low and has referred him for genetic test, again testosterone n other blood tests again and also referred him to fertility specialist.is there any success rate of clomiphene ? And yes his ultra sound is normal.


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## MoBaby

My dh did clomid and it did nothing. He also did Hcg with is for his low testosterone. I hope it works for your dh!


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## tulip11

hi MoBaby first of all congratulation on your success have H&H 9 months..
well tbh I am really worried Idk what ill be the result . I have few questions did your hubby take HCG after clomid ? did your hubby had genetic test ?


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## MoBaby

Dh took them together. He had generic testing, kayotype, and every blood test under the sun and he is a perfect male other than his lack of sperm.


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## tulip11

hi
My husband ultra sound shows normal size testicles and no blockage. but what I have read on internet mostly in NOA cases testicles size is small so idk what does it shows? and another question does all the blockages can be found out through first ultra sound only so some where later blockage can be detected?


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## rdleela

Tulip, my husbands testicular ultrasound did not show a blockage. Neither did a transrectal ultrasound. (and he had a blockage) But because the biopsy proved he was producing mature sperm, they were able to confirm by doing the transrectal ultrasound that the blockage was before the prostate. Even when the surgeon was in there doing the reversal surgery to bypass the blockage, he couldn't see where the blockage was. So long, confusing story short, if ultrasounds show nothing, but biopsy confirms he's producing mature sperm, it's matter of trying to figure out if the blockage is before or after the prostate, becaus that will determine what surgery he'll need.

We are moving on to IVF/ICSI, even after a surgery that worked and had sperm return. BUT we have no regrets with DH having the surgery, because the surgeon was able to take out a lot of scar tissue and reduce some of husbands pain. Plus DH's surgery was free. So we had to try it first. And now we can produce fresh sperm for ICSI instead of them extracting from him.


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## tulip11

rdleela said:


> Tulip, my husbands testicular ultrasound did not show a blockage. Neither did a transrectal ultrasound. (and he had a blockage) But because the biopsy proved he was producing mature sperm, they were able to confirm by doing the transrectal ultrasound that the blockage was before the prostate. Even when the surgeon was in there doing the reversal surgery to bypass the blockage, he couldn't see where the blockage was. So long, confusing story short, if ultrasounds show nothing, but biopsy confirms he's producing mature sperm, it's matter of trying to figure out if the blockage is before or after the prostate, becaus that will determine what surgery he'll need.
> 
> We are moving on to IVF/ICSI, even after a surgery that worked and had sperm return. BUT we have no regrets with DH having the surgery, because the surgeon was able to take out a lot of scar tissue and reduce some of husbands pain. Plus DH's surgery was free. So we had to try it first. And now we can produce fresh sperm for ICSI instead of them extracting from him.

Wow thats great that surgeons have found sperms . All the best for future. Thanks hun. Is there any side effects of such surgeries in long run ?


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## rdleela

No side effects or major risks associated with the surgery my hubby had, which is a type of vasectomy reversal. Thanks, hope I was helpful :)


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## arzoo

My husband is currently taking tamoxifin for the last 6 weeks and he went in for his SA last week. We have our follow up appointment on 11th September, nervous wait to know if tamoxifin has any impact on not.


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## bubumaci

Arzoo - fingers and toes tightly crossed for you Sweetie! My DH was on Tamoxifen for 6 weeks last year and had a miraculous improvement!! Before taking it, he was producing 0-250.000 sperm with 0% motility (maybe 1%). At the SA he supplied last year after taking the medication, he produced 13 Mio :spermy: with 8% motility. They were able to freeze 6 straws!
For our February ICSI, we tried to get such great results again, hoping to do IMSI - but this time the tamoxifen didn't have the desired effect, sadly.

I am really rooting for you that your DH has the same (or better) results as we had last year. How come you have to wait nearly three weeks to hear whether or not the medication has been effective? I find that pretty tough! We heard the results the same day of the SA! :hugs:


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## Tammerzann

Just wanted to report a quick update. DH had MESA procedure on Friday and they found :spermy: The doctor gave us a picture to keep. We go back in two weeks to see how it did with the freezing and thawing. Next step is getting his procedure paid off and then moving on to IVF. :cloud9:

Hopefully everything works out with my side of things.


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## bubumaci

That's wonderful news Tammerzann!! :) All fingers crossed that your side of things goes smoothly :)


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## Stinas

Tammerzann - amazing news!!!


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## MoBaby

That is so amazing they found sperm!! Congrats!! A big hurdle overcome!! :)


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## arzoo

Thank you Babumaci. Unfortunately we have to wait for the appointment with the consultant to know the results and 11th is the earliest appointment we got (despite booking it in June). I am really hoping for some postive news but given that there were no sperms found in the first test, i fear the results to be negative.

Waw...that is great news Tammerzann. Hope everything goes smoothly for now on.


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## deafgal01

deafgal01 said:


> For my known donor, I paid $1700. But that is not including iui which is yet to come but I expect that will easily run up to $1000 maybe depending on what's involved. I left my list at home which explains the costs of stuff.
> 
> Counseling was $220 for us plus the donor (first counseling session was just hubby and me so just $110).

I finally looked at the prices on paper, it is $330 for IUI with frozen and $380 for ultrasound & office visit. So overall, the costs should be cheaper from this point on unless I need to be on meds or monitored.


Tam- once again :wohoo: so happy you have sperms to use! :thumbup: good luck!


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## MrsG30

ah ladies good to see some good news on here. Fingers x'd your all going in the direction you wanting too.

AFM- we've been to our donor counselling session today. We had some legal papers to sign and the nurse talked about what's next.
Basically If the Clinic hadn't have made a cock up with the letter going to the wrong address we would be in slight limbo now playing a waiting game, because they breached data protection they basically said they will play our tune so they will waver the wait. it should be 6 month but they will disregard it.
Thy will also look to oversee the BMI limit, i'm waiting on a phone call about this. If they agree to do this, we should be cycling very soon. If they wont waver the BMI (which is unachievable for me with PCOS) i'm not sure where it leave us.

They asked me if I would like to make a formal complaint about their error? what are everyone's views?

I did leave feeling positive, so fingers x'd I receive the news we want tomorrow

How are we all? xxx


----------



## Rainbow123

rdleela said:


> We are moving on to IVF/ICSI, even after a surgery that worked and had sperm return. BUT we have no regrets with DH having the surgery, because the surgeon was able to take out a lot of scar tissue and reduce some of husbands pain. Plus DH's surgery was free. So we had to try it first. And now we can produce fresh sperm for ICSI instead of them extracting from him.

Hi rdeela,
Did your DH have the pain before you found out about azoo? My DH has had testicular pain for just about the same amount of time we've been trying, and was what prompted me to get him to the doctor for a SA in the first place. I was just wondering whether there could be some kind of link! My DH's FSH levels are slightly high, but not too bad (14), so we're keeping our fingers crossed they'll find something! Like you say, it's a bonus if the pain can be reduced too!

MrsG30 - I think you should definitely make a formal complaint. It's not like accidentally putting the wrong birth date on one of your forms, it's actually caused you a whole lot of grief which you really did not need on top of everything else. 

Hope everyone's doing ok! We're still waiting for an appointment to discuss mTESE, but could be as early as the 23rd from what they said on the phone they other day. The sooner the better really as then we'll be put on a waiting list and goodness knows how long that wait will be!

XXXXX


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## deafgal01

Make a formal complaint in case this is not the first time it happened. It is such sensitive mail and they should have had the address right. But if you are satisfied with an Apology and they are going thru now with your plan, maybe it is not important to file a complaint.

Btw, this cycle I finally get my first go at IUI with donor sperms. Wish me luck! No meds, tracking my natural ovulation cycle with bloods to confirm ovulation after and hopefully a bfp to boot after that!


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## MoBaby

Yea deafgal! So exciting when you finally get to start! Fx for you! What day are you on?


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## Stinas

Dg - yay!!! Super excited for you to start!! Lots of luck!!


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## deafgal01

Mo- cd2 and I am supposed to start using opk on cd 10 and call when I get the two dark lines.


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## rdleela

Rainbow123 said:


> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> We are moving on to IVF/ICSI, even after a surgery that worked and had sperm return. BUT we have no regrets with DH having the surgery, because the surgeon was able to take out a lot of scar tissue and reduce some of husbands pain. Plus DH's surgery was free. So we had to try it first. And now we can produce fresh sperm for ICSI instead of them extracting from him.
> 
> Hi rdeela,
> Did your DH have the pain before you found out about azoo? My DH has had testicular pain for just about the same amount of time we've been trying, and was what prompted me to get him to the doctor for a SA in the first place. I was just wondering whether there could be some kind of link! My DH's FSH levels are slightly high, but not too bad (14), so we're keeping our fingers crossed they'll find something! Like you say, it's a bonus if the pain can be reduced too!Click to expand...

Hi, Rainbow, yep, he had the pain for at least a year or two before we started TTC. My DH is even thinking about just going to get his scrotum completely removed after we have our family, just so that he doesn't have to live with the pain anymore. He still has pain and it's been a year since his surgery. All my DH's hormone levels were normal, so yah, it could be something similar for your hubby! Has your hubby had any surgeries down there?


----------



## Izabela

deafgal01 said:


> deafgal01 said:
> 
> 
> For my known donor, I paid $1700. But that is not including iui which is yet to come but I expect that will easily run up to $1000 maybe depending on what's involved. I left my list at home which explains the costs of stuff.
> 
> Counseling was $220 for us plus the donor (first counseling session was just hubby and me so just $110).
> 
> I finally looked at the prices on paper, it is $330 for IUI with frozen and $380 for ultrasound & office visit. So overall, the costs should be cheaper from this point on unless I need to be on meds or monitored.
> 
> 
> Tam- once again :wohoo: so happy you have sperms to use! :thumbup: good luck!Click to expand...

Do you know when you are likely to start your first IUI. Good luck!


----------



## deafgal01

Iza- judging my cycle, I can safely say week of sept 25th for sure, maybe around the 27th.


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## SunUp

YAYYYYYYY DG!! So excited and hopeful for you!! :)


----------



## snd80

Yay DG! I would suggest though getting some of those smily face clear blue easy OPKs.... I always had trouble cyphering those "line" ones... smily's are totally worth the extra $! Fingers crossed for you!

How is everyone else doing? 

AFM- I went to the dr. this morn for my annual pap and had them test everything under the sun to get ready for my ivf... thyroids, hormones, etc. I told them I didn't care how much my lab bill would be. LOL! So now comes more waiting...

:hugs: to all!!!


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## deafgal01

snd- i never had issues with the wondroflo ones so I'm using those to track my ovulation. My other bnb ladies say it's easy to miss the surge if I use smiley ones so not worth the money. :shrug: I hope you don't have to wait too long. :hugs: I just paid off a lot of my medical bills from the tests this past summer (already paid $2400ish) :shock: I still have like $400 left to pay on that debt of ($2800).


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## Stinas

dg - I cant wait for you to start!!!

snd - Hiiiii!!! Im excited for you to start IVF too!!! Woohoo! It will go by super fast!...until you are PUPO...thats when time goes by super slow!

I dont think I ever updated here. FET #2 was a BFP! Twinkies again! Super excited! I am 6w3d today. I go in thursday for US. This week and next week are pretty big for us. Last pregnancy babies did not get pass 6w3d & 6w5d....D&C at 8w. So this next US we are hoping to see strong measurable hb's. Really nervous and scared. You would think everything is ok once you get prey, but there is a ton of other things you start to worry about. I guess thats life. Keep positive and positive things will come your way!


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## rdleela

Hi, snd! Good luck with all your testing! We are doing our first round of IVF right away - it was awesome when we finally made the decision to just do it already. I wasn't ready for it before, but now I'm totally ready and excited! Hoping to be in Stinas's shoes soon ;)


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## tulip11

hiya today finally got 50 mg clomid for my hubby which he has to take half of it means 25 mg every day for 21 days then stop for 7 days and after 3 months we ill again submit sample for SA. my hubby has high testosterone level...is there anyone who had high level of testosterone and later on got some good news ? yeah another thing when I read the leaflet with medicine so that only shows about female infertility problems so I called back to pharmacy then they said no its ok men can also use these clomid.


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## Izabela

deafgal01 said:


> Iza- judging my cycle, I can safely say week of sept 25th for sure, maybe around the 27th.

Great news wish you a BFP first time !!!

I am lucking to have FET around 25 Sept so we can be 2WW in the same time.


----------



## arzoo

Hello, hope everyone is fine , good to read the positive news. 

We had been for our review with Mr Ramsay and the news is not entirely positive. Still no sperm found in the SA but the hormone levels have improved which means the tamoxifen is having an impact and Mr. Ramsay said that , DH hormone levels were optimal and if there was any chance of sperm production it would be happening now. However he reminded us that since it takes 3 months for a sperm to be produced, we will have to wait for the full 3 months to pass before doing another test to look for that one single sperm. He advised us to see him at his clinic in windsor towards the end of October when the 3 months would be completed. 

This time I pressed him a little further on why he was reluctant to have a synchronised cycle for us, if they dint find a single sperm in the SA. He explained that an IVF process subjects a woman to many risks like organ failure, though chances are low, it could happen. and in the case where no sperms are found then it was not worthwhile to subject me to these risks and if things went really bad and if we ever consider taking him to court, then the judge would be very unhappy with him and the medical specialist who were involved as they subjected me to unnecessary risks.

Despite knowing the risks, I want to do all that we can to try and have our baby.Has anyone else faced this dilemma?


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## deafgal01

Iza- I hope we can be bump buddies together!

Arzoo- that is awful. Idk of anyone in similar situation.


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## Izabela

deafgal01 said:


> Iza- I hope we can be bump buddies together!
> 
> Arzoo- that is awful. Idk of anyone in similar situation.

Deafgal. Some delays on my side so is also looking around 27th Sept. Hope we can compere pregnancy stories. X best of luck.


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## Mikihob

Hi ladies!

Here's an update from me. I can't remember what I last updated you all on, but here it goes.

DH's HCG didn't work. Yes, his testosterone levels went up, but still no sperm. We have a phone consult scheduled with Dr. Walsh at Seattle Reproductive Medicine to get all the information and schedule a testicular biopsy for DH. We are hoping to find sperm so that we can do IVF. Of course we will need to get donations/grants for IVF because our insurance doesn't cover it. 

I am so frustrated, DH is frustrated. Waiting sucks when it comes to infertility. After waiting so long to get some good news, waiting is harder because all I can think about it pain and surgery for DH and then bad news. It's very discouraging. After the phone consult we will probably have to wait until Nov to be able to fly down their and get time off work for DH. 

It does help to see all the wonderful news you ladies have shared. :hugs:


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## deafgal01

Oh miki :hugs: I agree, waiting is the hardest part of all this, it is right up there next to the bad news we always seem to get. :hugs: I agree it is encouraging to hear of other ladies getting success stories and ending up with a baby to take home.


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## tulip11

hiya today finally got 50 mg clomid for my hubby which he has to take half of it means 25 mg every day for 21 days then stop for 7 days and after 3 months we ill again submit sample for SA. my hubby has high testosterone level...is there anyone who had high level of testosterone and later on got some good news ? yeah another thing when I read the leaflet with medicine so that only shows about female infertility problems so I called back to pharmacy then they said no its ok men can also use these clomid.



( Repeated post )
I had posted this on 17th September.


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## deafgal01

Tulip- my hub tried meds (clomid) and it did nothing for him in terms of sperm production. But we still have no idea the cause of his azoospermia so maybe it will work for yours.


----------



## Hopeful 1

Hi Ladies, I'm looking for your support and advice please. My DH has had a few SA and the first came back as zero, the second with a few sperm found and the third sample which was "spun" was found to have just over 10. The clinic don't know why there is no sperm as all results have come back fine. The clinic said that they were happy with the last sample and we could proceed to ICSI. We initially found out last September and were put on the ICSI waiting list in January after the latter result. We were delighted to find out that we were being given the opportunity to have a baby together and couldn't believe our luck they found a few sperm. This sperm was not frozen - not sure why and really disappointed now that they didn't freeze it.
All was going well with the ivf and I was booked in for egg collection yesterday. The clinic wanted DH to produce a sample just before I went in for collection and if nothing was found they would do a SSR on the same day. We were so hopeful given the last sample. The embryologist advised that unfortunately there was no sperm in the sample and SSR would be needed. It all happened so quickly and I had to go for egg collection I felt terrible leaving him given the news we had just been given. It didn't leave much time for us to think about anything. Unfortunately they could not find anything in the SSR. We are devastated and left the hospital yesterday feeling distraught with the result. They have frozen the eggs they collected from me and we have a follow up appointment next Friday to see what the next steps are for us.
Has anyone ever heard of results such as these and what were the next steps? Is there any medication DH could go on? we are in the uk and he is already using Zita west vitamins. We are hoping that the clinic will allow him to keep producing some samples for a while and freeze anything they find although not sure if in reality they will allow this. 
We just can't get our heads around how there was sperm a few months ago and not now. Just feel like we are back at the same place we were last year having received the devastating news. Any suggestions and advice would be welcomed. Sorry this is my first post and is all about me I will try to have a look back and find out more information about you all.
Take care


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## deafgal01

Hopeful :hugs: goodness what a roller coaster ride for you two! No advice to share but that is troubling the fact he had some at a previous sample and then none this time!! That is hard to process!


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## rdleela

Hopeful 1, how devastating for you guys! And yes, a rollercoaster...I have no specific advice for you guys, except to not give up hope...since there were sperm there before, I hope you could find a male infertility specialist who can get to the root of your problem, and see if there is a chance to get some sperm from your DH at somepoint, and hopefully freeze them at that point! Maybe some of the UK ladies here know where to point you...big hugs!


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## deafgal01

One thought. Has anything changed between that sa and this one? Like vitamins or meds he was taking or maybe lifestyle change like he started working out/exercising more when he did not before?


----------



## Hopeful 1

Hi deafgal01 and rdleela, thank you for your reply. DH has been going to the gym more thinking that this would be beneficial so he has lost some weight and generally started to be a bit more aware of healthy eating cutting down on drinking etc. He is taking zita west vitamins but they haven't changed between the samples. In general just a lot more healthy than he used to be thinking it would help make a difference. As I said earlier we have a follow up appointment on Friday but might have to look at seeing a specialist in this field I have heard lots of good stories about Johnathan Ramsey in London. Can anyone comment on this?

I have seen some people have been prescribed tamoxifen or clomid can anyone tell me what this is and if anyone has seen any changes to the sperm since their partners have been on it? 

Thanks ladies your support is much appreciated. :hug:


----------



## Deb111

Hi Hopeful
Sorry to read your story - totally devastating for you. I take it you are nhs? 
When the nhs found 3 sperm in my dhs ssr they got rid of them as they say their criteria to freeze is 100 minimum. You can imagine how devastated we were to be told " we've got 3 ... and binned them!!"

It was at that point we decided to go down the private route and found jonathan ramsay. He put dh on tamoxifen then changed it to anastrazole. To cut a long story short - jonathan ramsay is the reason we have our little girl. We obviously cant praise him highly enough!

Pm me if you want to ask anything hun x x


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## Hopeful 1

Hi Deb, that's amazing you have a little girl congratulations to you and your husband. I can understand your frustration that they just discarded the sperm they found, we are very frustrated that they didn't freeze the sperm that they found earlier this year. Tonight's job is to do more research on these drugs thanks very much for your advice. Will definitely be asking at our app on Friday and maybe have to look at getting an appointment with Jonathan. 
Thanks


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## Izabela

Hopeful 1 said:


> Hi Deb, that's amazing you have a little girl congratulations to you and your husband. I can understand your frustration that they just discarded the sperm they found, we are very frustrated that they didn't freeze the sperm that they found earlier this year. Tonight's job is to do more research on these drugs thanks very much for your advice. Will definitely be asking at our app on Friday and maybe have to look at getting an appointment with Jonathan.
> Thanks

Really sorry to here your story. Wish you luck with your new plan :hugs: NHS are not very helpful or personalized with the treatment. They used the criteria one size fits all. X


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## arzoo

Hi Hopeful. Sorry to hear about your rollercoaoster ride. Hope everything works out well for you. My DH was diagnised in May and since then we have gone for multiple test and currently seeing Dr Ramsay. DH is taking tamoxifen the follow up blood tests show his hormone levels have improved but still no sperms. We have another follow up appointment in October. Let me know if you want more details about contacting Dr Ramsay or any other info. Good luck.


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## arzoo

Hi All, I just thought I will post about my HSG today. I am very nervous when it comes to hospital visits so was releaved when Dh came along for support. The Dr who was doing the x-ray seemed friendly at first but not sure what caused her to change her mood, she was really rude and rough with me. I went to Hammersmith for my test this morning and serously thinking of writing a written complaint. A little upset so just thought of sharing it


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## deafgal01

I had hsg done back in June, the procedure was fairly easy I thought but I did not have anyone rude like you did so maybe worth writing a complaint?


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## tulip11

hi 
Can someone explain lil bit about genetic or chromosomal deletion test ? whats the method and how much is it important ?


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## arzoo

Hi Tulip, this link should explain it well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome_microdeletion

Basically what they do is , check to see if some known chromosome issues exist in your DH. we did that test for my husband and they did not give us any conclusive reason for his Azoo as in , in his case the reason for azoo is still unexplained. Hope this helps.


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## Rainbow123

Hi rdleela! Sorry for SUCH a late reply! Not been on for a little while. The doctor said he has no idea what the cause of DH's azoo is. He's not had operations, but round about the time we started TTC he had VERY sore testicles and was told he had an infection. After multiple rounds of antibiotics, scans, anti-inflammatories, everything else under the sun, they'd given up on helping him and now he's just on pain relief - RUBBISH!
Until.. we went to see the urologist in Leeds about DH's azoo and he said after the mTESE he will refer him to a doctor who does 'Nerve stripping'. Apparently it is a newish and very effective way to relieve long term testicle pain, so maybe your DH could investigate? Really excited to hear how you're progressing btw 
XXX


----------



## Rainbow123

Hello lovely ladies! 
It's been quite a while since I've updated on here, finally have something to update you with (bloody waiting between appointments lol!).
Really great to hear so many people are progressing so well  Best of luck to you all!
So we went to Leeds on Monday to see the urologist. 9 weeks ago when we first saw us he sent DH for a FSH retest and the Y-chromosone test. They came back pretty much the same for FSH, 15.2 I think, and the Y-Chomosone one came back showing no genetic problem. He said that he would advise us to go for the mTESE, and that with DH's results the surgeon would give us a 50% chance of finding sperm which I was VERY surprised about! Obviously you don't know until you go in, but that was quite nice to hear. We will have to get DS backup as we've asked to go for a synchronised cycle, which was pretty obvious choice for us anyway! 
SO! When we asked how long the waiting list was, he said he would expect the op to be by the end of the year. I said "Do you mean we'll have the operation by in a year's time?" and he said "No, hopefully by the end of 2013" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apparently, this is because the surgeon has only just come up to Leeds, and is the first person they've had to do mTESEs at the hospital (before they used to send people down to London), and as he's new there's next to no waiting list! I couldn't believe our luck! Apparently he's just getting his equipment checked over and then he'll be ready to start, so now we're waiting for a letter with his input. SO EXCITED! :happydance:
So that's the update from me! 

Hopeful - SSR isn't the same as an mTESE is it? The mTESEs are really thorough, so maybe this would be the next step? Fingers crossed for you lovely. XXXXX

My thoughts and prayers remain with you all :hugs:

XXXXXXXXXXXX


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## rdleela

Rainbow123 said:


> Hi rdleela! Sorry for SUCH a late reply! Not been on for a little while. The doctor said he has no idea what the cause of DH's azoo is. He's not had operations, but round about the time we started TTC he had VERY sore testicles and was told he had an infection. After multiple rounds of antibiotics, scans, anti-inflammatories, everything else under the sun, they'd given up on helping him and now he's just on pain relief - RUBBISH!
> Until.. we went to see the urologist in Leeds about DH's azoo and he said after the mTESE he will refer him to a doctor who does 'Nerve stripping'. Apparently it is a newish and very effective way to relieve long term testicle pain, so maybe your DH could investigate? Really excited to hear how you're progressing btw
> XXX

Hey, Rainbow! Congrats on getting on the TESE wait list, and woo hoo for getting it done before the end of the year! We had the same luck with getting my hubby's VE surgery done, it was a newer surgeon in the northern part of province with a nice, short wait list! Thanks for the info on the nerve stripping! We will def look into that! And feel free to come over to my journal and stalk me! So far I'm growing 10 follies, going for my 2nd scan tmrw!

btw, here is some info on nerve stripping I just found: https://malereproduction.com/education-2/chronic-testicular-pain/ - we would totally go back to my hubby's VE surgeon to get this done, I'll be asking him about it - AFTER we get pregnant! lol


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## Rainbow123

Thank you for the info rdleela  It would be the icing on the cake if DH can get rid of his stinky pains once we're pregnant! Will pop over to your journal now!
XXX


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## gem10

So I haven't been on here in what feels like forever. It makes me so happy to see all of the smiley faces as people move forward in the right direction on their journey. I pray that one day we will all be posting that we are pregnant with either our hubby's baby, or a DS that we are happy and at peace with.

As for me, I am 9 days past my 5 day transfer. As we began the process all 5 of our frozen embryos thawed. Then over the next 5 days only one embryo made it, it was a grade1, a perfect embryo, but we had nothing to refreeze. No embryos, no leftover sperm.

So here I am in the 2 week wait wondering if this actually worked. I took a test yesterday (wishing I never did) and it was negative. I know it was way too early, but I have been searching online and many women had a positive at this point. I'm going to try to keep myself from testing until Wednesday. My beta test is on Thursday. I have been doing the craziest things to make this little thing stick, and I am trying to stay hopeful. Eating pineapple core, wheat germ, no caffeine, no chocolate, no junk food, vitamins, etc.

The icing on the cake is one of my very close friends gave birth two days ago and we went to see the baby yesterday. I left there in tears wondering if I would EVER get to that point.

I thought I would get on and share with some woman who have an actual idea of how I feel, because no one else does. Everyone else seems to be pregnant or done having kids. Its SOOO frustrating. Anyway, I will keep you all posted. I will keep you all in my prayers. Been praying extra hard lately.

Wishing you all the best on you journey.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: oh gem! Reality is always a hard pill to swallow but try to hang in there as it could be late implantion causing the test to not show bfp yet!


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## Deb111

Keeping everything crossed for you gem. I didnt get my bfp until otd - despite testing early x x


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## gem10

Thank you deafgal01 and Deb111. I really appreciate your kind words. I'm trying to stay positive. I keep getting cramps and I cant help but think its AF trying to make her way into town. But then I have also read that its a good sign. 

Deb, do you remember having any symptoms during your 2ww? You made me feel so hopeful about my test on Thursday!!!


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## Deb111

Gem if you go to my 'quest for an ixie pixie' journel in my siggy and look from page 300 ish - thats when I had my transfer. Sorry not got time to trawl through it right now. Hope its of some help x x


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## gem10

Thanks Deb, just went and read it. Makes me feel a little better now. I appreciate your help and am praying that my news is as good as your was!! xo


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## Rainbow123

Good luck Gem! Fingers, toes and everything else crossed for you!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## Izabela

Good luck gem! I feel your pain may sister is pregnant with twins after 2 months of trying naturally. And here I am after 3 failed IVF and one frozen. I am day 1 after day 2 transfer with DS. Praying for your positive.


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## deafgal01

Seriously! This 2ww is a pain! Only day 2 and it feels like it is going by way too slow! I seriously need a hobby or project to focus on to pass the time!

Gem-
I hope you have a bfp in the making and that it is just delayed! You deserve a bfp as much as any one else!


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## arzoo

Hi Gem, I do well understand the pain you go through when you see others having babies around you. Hopefully it is your turn now... Good luck.


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## Izabela

deafgal01 said:


> Seriously! This 2ww is a pain! Only day 2 and it feels like it is going by way too slow! I seriously need a hobby or project to focus on to pass the time.

Deafgal we are cycle buddies. I am day 3 today. Hope we both get a BFP. :flower:


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## deafgal01

Iza- I hope we both get a bfp! How are you passing the time?


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## Izabela

Deafgal, I am really struggling with the wait and I am taking progesterone 2 a day which give me headaches and bad sleep. So don't know how I am getting to 2 weeks. Back to work today so hope this help although I am off again on Tuesday and Wednesday. Hope you doing better.


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## deafgal01

I am at work so it helps to pass the time quicker. I will probably sleep lots this week whenever I am at home and not working.

Hope you get thru the two weeks!


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## bubumaci

Gem - everything crossed for you!!

And DG + Iza!!

Sprinkling of :dust::dust::dust: :)


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## Stinas

Good luck everyone!!!


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## Arimas

Good luck to everyone!
:dust::dust::dust:


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## gem10

Thank you everyone! Im now 12dp5dt. I tested at 10dp and was negative. Everyone says its still too early. I have decided to not test again until beta since thats the only real official true answer. Ladies, take my advice. Never test early!!! Sooo stressful. Last night I was up for hours with terrible back pain and today I have cramps. AF better not think about it!! I have read this may be a good sign. Fingers crossed! Two days left. I hope I can make it!!


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## rdleela

Oh gem good luck to you! I personally HATE HPT's and just wait for the beta, that way I stay positive and don't stress! Best of luck, I hope it's a positive beta!!


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## Rainbow123

Just need a little rant!
Another of my colleagues is expecting (the other just had a baby!) out of a staff of SIX! So LOTS of talk of babies in the staffroom, woop! Today, the girl expecting - who is also a friend and knows about our situation - says what they are thinking of calling their baby and it just so happens to be my number 1 choice of baby names should we have a boy. WTF? Out of all the millions of names out there! Ok, so I can cope with this, breathe deeply! Then 10 minutes later there is still so much baby talk, I make my excuses and leave the staffroom. Another member of staff, who is the BIGGEST GOSSIP ON THE F-ING PLANET (so I have NOT told her anything), makes a comment about how my friend should be more sensitive around me. How the hell has this gossip woman found out? And who is she to tell my friend to "be more sensitive"? Then she proceeds to discuss my infertility issues with my other colleagues (who also didn't know)! So my pregnant friend was left feeling terrible. She came to apologise and told me about 'gossip-face', so I break down in the middle of the corridor at school and have to run to the toilets! Not the best situation when I have a class of seven and eight year-olds who have just come in from playtime! ARRRRGH! I've reassured my friend that I would feel awful if she doesn't talk about her baby, as it is a very exciting time for her. It seems every time I manage to come to terms with things and think positively a whole new load of rubbish like this comes falling down on my head!
Rant over!
Hope everyone is doing ok? Thinking of you all, as always :hugs:
XXXXXXXXX


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## Mikihob

Rainbow123 said:


> Just need a little rant!
> Another of my colleagues is expecting (the other just had a baby!) out of a staff of SIX! So LOTS of talk of babies in the staffroom, woop! Today, the girl expecting - who is also a friend and knows about our situation - says what they are thinking of calling their baby and it just so happens to be my number 1 choice of baby names should we have a boy. WTF? Out of all the millions of names out there! Ok, so I can cope with this, breathe deeply! Then 10 minutes later there is still so much baby talk, I make my excuses and leave the staffroom. Another member of staff, who is the BIGGEST GOSSIP ON THE F-ING PLANET (so I have NOT told her anything), makes a comment about how my friend should be more sensitive around me. How the hell has this gossip woman found out? And who is she to tell my friend to "be more sensitive"? Then she proceeds to discuss my infertility issues with my other colleagues (who also didn't know)! So my pregnant friend was left feeling terrible. She came to apologise and told me about 'gossip-face', so I break down in the middle of the corridor at school and have to run to the toilets! Not the best situation when I have a class of seven and eight year-olds who have just come in from playtime! ARRRRGH! I've reassured my friend that I would feel awful if she doesn't talk about her baby, as it is a very exciting time for her. It seems every time I manage to come to terms with things and think positively a whole new load of rubbish like this comes falling down on my head!
> Rant over!
> Hope everyone is doing ok? Thinking of you all, as always :hugs:
> XXXXXXXXX


How awful! I am sorry that you had to deal with that today. I hate gossipy people. At my last job the gossipy girl was my "acting supervisor" and I disliked her. I stopped telling her stuff because she was insensitive and couldn't keep her mouth shut. After this dreadful woman was able to get pregnant she balled for days because it was a boy and not a girl. What?? THEN she told me that if I didn't hurry she would have two before I had one. WOW. Suffice it to say I spent a short period of time crying in the bathroom. 

I think you can still use your boy name if you love it. Tons of people's babies have the same name. Plus, it's good that you are able to enjoy her pregnancy with her. I know how you feel when everyone around you is getting pregnant. My neighbor who has three boys was dying for a girl, this pregnancy is her last. Just found out...it's a girl! I almost balled. It's so hard watching everyone else get pregnant while you are left behind. 

I hope that the gossipy girl stops harassing you all. I am sorry that you had a tough day. REMEMBER the progress you made and the progress you will make. The waiting sucks, but the reward is worth it! 

:hugs:


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## deafgal01

Oh rainbow :hugs:


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## Rainbow123

Thank you Mikihob, that's sound advice. How awful that your acting supervisor was like that! People like that shouldn't be allowed to be in those positions. My colleague is part of the senior management. She is nearing retirement and contemplating leaving this year or next, so just hoping she goes sooner rather than later so I don't have to look at her gossip face any more! Luckily the Deputy Head at school is my guardian angel. She came and found me in the toilets, gave me a hug and took me to the staff room for 10 minutes to become more composed. Don't know what I'd do without her some days! Good luck with your telephone consultation on the 8th 
XXXXX


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## Izabela

Hi Rainbow so sorry for you, feel your pain. X

I have not told anybody at work about doing IVF - already done 4 and to FET for the same reason. They know about my ectopic but they don't knows was IVF ectopic and keep putting stupid questions. I keep telling we are not ready. The most insensitive is my sister knows my full situation (not about donor sperm and shearing my eggs) and tells me I may need to give up, may not be to happen for me. She is pregnant with twins after 2 months trying naturally and calls me daily to chat about her pregnancy. But she is just enjoying her pregnancy so I need to be supportive.


----------



## Mikihob

Izabela said:


> Hi Rainbow so sorry for you, feel your pain. X
> 
> I have not told anybody at work about doing IVF - already done 4 and to FET for the same reason. They know about my ectopic but they don't knows was IVF ectopic and keep putting stupid questions. I keep telling we are not ready. The most insensitive is my sister knows my full situation (not about donor sperm and shearing my eggs) and tells me I may need to give up, may not be to happen for me. She is pregnant with twins after 2 months trying naturally and calls me daily to chat about her pregnancy. But she is just enjoying her pregnancy so I need to be supportive.

It's hard when the people closest to you, who know what you are going through, are being insensitive. During my birthday dinner last month, my moms boyfriend's daughter made a joke about their being a baby in my belly. My mom replies, "Man I wish there was" I almost lost it in front of everyone. It was really tough. I think if DH and I have to do IVF and/or donor sperm I wouldn't tell anyone either. Too many questions and unneeded advice. 

I am glad that you are able to be supportive for your sister. You have tons of support right here with us ladies. :hugs:


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## Rainbow123

Aw Izabela, sounds like you've had such a rough time. I wouldn't dare pry into my colleagues' business, it's so annoying they pry into ours! Grrr.
That must be so hard for you with your sister, you are very strong to be so supportive towards her. It was my friend at work's first try. When we first told my mother in law (who doesn't think for a moment it is my DH with the fertility issues :wacko: ), she said that she doesn't want to see us still trying in 10 years and maybe we should think about adopting. We've not even had our first attempt yet! And tbh, if we end up having to use DS, there's quite a good chance we'll get pregnant, according to my FS.
You will get your baby Izabela, I'm sure of it. And when we do get our babies we will never forget how important they are, and value them every minute of every day. Wish it didn't have to cost so much though, lol! XXXXX


----------



## gem10

Well folks, its a big fat negative for me. Absolutely devastated. We are back to square one. This is the worst feeling I have ever had. We were so close, jumped over so many obstacles. And here we are, back to where we started. :(


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## rdleela

Awh gem, I'm so, so sorry! To go through all of this and get a BFN just sucks!! Big Internet hugs :(


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## Stinas

Oh gem! Im sorry! Listen dont give up!!!....it WILL happen!!! I went through a few cycles myself before I got my BFP! Just like my re said...sometimes it just takes time. In the end we will appreciate it much more than normal people. 
Keep your head up! You have all of us as support!!


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## deafgal01

Oh sounds like everyone need a hug lately- rainbow, gem, miki, and Iza! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Stinas is right though, hang in there, it will soon be your turn to be pregnant!


----------



## Izabela

Mikihob said:


> Izabela said:
> 
> 
> Hi Rainbow so sorry for you, feel your pain. X
> 
> I have not told anybody at work about doing IVF - already done 4 and to FET for the same reason. They know about my ectopic but they don't knows was IVF ectopic and keep putting stupid questions. I keep telling we are not ready. The most insensitive is my sister knows my full situation (not about donor sperm and shearing my eggs) and tells me I may need to give up, may not be to happen for me. She is pregnant with twins after 2 months trying naturally and calls me daily to chat about her pregnancy. But she is just enjoying her pregnancy so I need to be supportive.
> 
> It's hard when the people closest to you, who know what you are going through, are being insensitive. During my birthday dinner last month, my moms boyfriend's daughter made a joke about their being a baby in my belly. My mom replies, "Man I wish there was" I almost lost it in front of everyone. It was really tough. I think if DH and I have to do IVF and/or donor sperm I wouldn't tell anyone either. Too many questions and unneeded advice.
> 
> I am glad that you are able to be supportive for your sister. You have tons of support right here with us ladies. :hugs:Click to expand...

That must been so hard for you.:hugs: I hope you getting your babies soon, hopefully with your husband genetics. My husband and I are fully happy with our SD decision as passing genetics are not as import as having a healthy child. We also gave it a good go of 3 IVF .


----------



## Izabela

gem10 said:


> Well folks, its a big fat negative for me. Absolutely devastated. We are back to square one. This is the worst feeling I have ever had. We were so close, jumped over so many obstacles. And here we are, back to where we started. :(

So sorry Gem and I hope the next IVF is your time.


----------



## Izabela

Rainbow123 said:


> Aw Izabela, sounds like you've had such a rough time. I wouldn't dare pry into my colleagues' business, it's so annoying they pry into ours! Grrr.
> That must be so hard for you with your sister, you are very strong to be so supportive towards her. It was my friend at work's first try. When we first told my mother in law (who doesn't think for a moment it is my DH with the fertility issues :wacko: ), she said that she doesn't want to see us still trying in 10 years and maybe we should think about adopting. We've not even had our first attempt yet! And tbh, if we end up having to use DS, there's quite a good chance we'll get pregnant, according to my FS.
> You will get your baby Izabela, I'm sure of it. And when we do get our babies we will never forget how important they are, and value them every minute of every day. Wish it didn't have to cost so much though, lol! XXXXX

Thanks Rainbow it is so much support on this tread. It is so insensitive of you MIL to plan ahead for you. Only you can decide when you had enough and you want to step aside and take a different route. Especially you had not give IVF a go. As I already said my husband and I are very happy with our DS choice. We are not going to tell nobody neither DH parents although they new about our only option being IVF due to his genetic condition past from their 2 defect genes. We decided to stop trying with DH sperm due to low chances and possible genetics implication such as CF carrier and boys possible infertile. We also would not been able to finance infinite cycles.


----------



## Izabela

deafgal01 said:


> Oh sounds like everyone need a hug lately- rainbow, gem, miki, and Iza! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
> 
> Stinas is right though, hang in there, it will soon be your turn to be pregnant!

Any simptoms Deafgal? I had lots of cramping last night, but more like enlarging - really I can described it as a front pen being inside my uterus. Insominia for 3 hours. I never get that. I hope is not AF that early. Day 8 today.


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## deafgal01

No symptoms at all but I did have weird dreams the other day!


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## bubumaci

Oh Gem, I am so so sorry - sending you huge hugs :hug:


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## Rainbow123

So sorry Gem. Thinking of and praying for you hun. XXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## Rainbow123

Izabela - We were originally planning on telling our parents what the cause of our IF was. The longer we've gone not telling them (all they know is one of us is having an operation, then we'll be able to give IVF a shot) the more I don't want to have to tell them. I think it depends on what the outcome of the mTESE is. If we find sperm then maybe we tell them, if we don't and we go the DS route we've been advised to be open about it and tell our baby and the whole world... I'm at peace with the possibility of DS, but I keep feeling like it's no one else's damn business! I feel like our privacy has already been ripped to shreds so much already that I just want to keep this to ourselves. My DH's parents have both said recently that we really should let the rest of the family know (DH has 3 brothers, one has 2 kids already), and every time DH mentions it I hit the roof! I've told them all that we stopped trying due to finances being on the low side (kinda true with saving up for IVF) and I just want to leave it at that until we do get pregnant. I think I may need to spell it out to them at some point, but DH's mother can be such an arse. She's used to getting her own way and dominating people into doing what she wants, I'm usually quite laid back, so I can imagine she's not going to like what I have to say... Flipping heck, I only meant to write a quick reply and I've got all 'ranty' again! Sorry! 
Have your clinic tried to persuade you to tell your baby about DS or are they leaving it up to you? It's so difficult to make the right decision. I think this is why I'm so keen to keep things between DH and me for as long as possible.. 
Anyhoo! DH has bought us some tasty treats for tonight and I plan on having a goodly amount to drink (I'm bloody need it after this week lol!) so have a super weekend lovely ladies and lots of love to you all :hugs: !
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## deafgal01

Mine did not pressure me about telling baby of using donor but it is strongly encouraged to do so if you do not plan to make sure blood types match or whatever because kids will find out one way or another. My counselor asked us how we thought we might tell our baby and what age we thought was a good age to tell the baby as well as how we think they might act (a young child vs a teenager).

Dh and I agreed that we want our baby to know first before we tell my parents and other people. This minimizes the risk/chance of child finding out by accident from someone else and not us.


----------



## Rainbow123

deafgal01 said:


> Mine did not pressure me about telling baby of using donor but it is strongly encouraged to do so if you do not plan to make sure blood types match or whatever because kids will find out one way or another. My counselor asked us how we thought we might tell our baby and what age we thought was a good age to tell the baby as well as how we think they might act (a young child vs a teenager).
> 
> Dh and I agreed that we want our baby to know first before we tell my parents and other people. This minimizes the risk/chance of child finding out by accident from someone else and not us.

Thanks lovely :flower: I don't know what I'd do without you ladies, it is so great to be able to share experiences with people going through the same thing. It's so difficult to know what to do for the best, with regards to who to tell, when to tell, whether to them them in the first place. I think what DH and I decided last night is that we don't have to make any concrete decisions yet, and so we will keep this our business (not our parents') until we are completely ready and sure of what we want to do. XXX


----------



## Izabela

Rainbow123 said:


> Izabela - We were originally planning on telling our parents what the cause of our IF was. The longer we've gone not telling them (all they know is one of us is having an operation, then we'll be able to give IVF a shot) the more I don't want to have to tell them. I think it depends on what the outcome of the mTESE is. If we find sperm then maybe we tell them, if we don't and we go the DS route we've been advised to be open about it and tell our baby and the whole world... I'm at peace with the possibility of DS, but I keep feeling like it's no one else's damn business! I feel like our privacy has already been ripped to shreds so much already that I just want to keep this to ourselves. My DH's parents have both said recently that we really should let the rest of the family know (DH has 3 brothers, one has 2 kids already), and every time DH mentions it I hit the roof! I've told them all that we stopped trying due to finances being on the low side (kinda true with saving up for IVF) and I just want to leave it at that until we do get pregnant. I think I may need to spell it out to them at some point, but DH's mother can be such an arse. She's used to getting her own way and dominating people into doing what she wants, I'm usually quite laid back, so I can imagine she's not going to like what I have to say... Flipping heck, I only meant to write a quick reply and I've got all 'ranty' again! Sorry!
> Have your clinic tried to persuade you to tell your baby about DS or are they leaving it up to you? It's so difficult to make the right decision. I think this is why I'm so keen to keep things between DH and me for as long as possible..
> Anyhoo! DH has bought us some tasty treats for tonight and I plan on having a goodly amount to drink (I'm bloody need it after this week lol!) so have a super weekend lovely ladies and lots of love to you all :hugs: !
> XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

:hugs: people who have not been on this journey can't understand us. This is why this forum is so supportive.:flower:

The doctor said is fine not to tell the child lots of people chose not to say but the consuler try to convince to say to the child since is a baby/ toddler. We probably are not going to tell the child because by DH parents would treat it different (even so is there fault for us needing IcSI - their genetics and my DH is their second child with CF, after the odds were 1 in 2). His brother has 3 ICSI children, as far as we know not donor.
The donor we chose has the same blood group as me and is left handed like me and my DH. Just happened to be the closer as looks and had a good family health record (our priority). One way the child could identify is that he is not going to be a CF carrier and any child born to my DH would be a carrier. So we may think about. And in Europe donor sperms are not anonymous since 2005. The child after 18 could check the donor register and get enough details.


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## tulip11

hi I got a question regarding clomid. My hubby is now taking clomid and its his first month but dr said that he has to take these for 3 months right. but what makes me confused that on medicine its mentioned that take these tablets for 21 days and then leave for 7 days so does it complete one month in this way ? like if we have to start again after that 7 days off so that would be 2nd month... quite strange for me...anyone out there to help me out.


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## deafgal01

Tulip- no idea. My dh didn't have that 7 days break.


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## tulip11

deafgal01 said:


> Tulip- no idea. My dh didn't have that 7 days break.

did your DH take 25 mg ?


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## deafgal01

I think so. He had to cut it in half every time he got the med.


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## tulip11

deafgal01 said:


> I think so. He had to cut it in half every time he got the med.

yes we got 50 mg as well and we cut it in half too.


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## arzoo

Awh gem, I'm so, so sorry to hear your results. Hope the best for you.


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## arzoo

I was just stopping by to say hello. Nothing much has changed at our end. We had decided to not share our condition with anyone other than our siblings. I had told my sister a few months ago. DH finally spoke to his sister and as you can imagine I felt my wounds were raw again. Trying hard to deal with it. At times I feel people are very insensitive and since an option might be ok for them they thing it should be for others as well.
My sis in law has fertility issues of her own and going through IVF, after multiple failures she is now considering surrogacy or donor egg. It was an easy decision for her. But using DS isnt for me and I feel somehow she is not able to understand why it isnt. Sigh!

I dint have a good weekend, everywhere I went there were mothers playing with babies or friends who were talking about starting family or asking me what our plans were. I am tired of lying that we are thinking about it. I dont want to tell anyone we are trying cause then they will know soon that we have tried and failed. 

We have our next appointment with Ramsey on 19th, nervous about it. Almost dont want the days to pass.


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## deafgal01

Arz- I hope the appt brings you good things to consider. :hugs: this journey sucks and it is frustrating when your sis has fertility issues too but cannot understand where you are coming from. :hugs:


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## Rainbow123

Sorry that you're feeling so rubbish Arzoo. It never seems to get any easier, does it? I do feel that for me, the rubbish times are getting slightly shorter, and the good times are getting slightly longer, but the bad times never get any easier do they? It's great to be able to come on here and have a vent. Fingers crossed for you with Dr Ramsey. He is an expert in this so you are in the best hands. I completely get what you mean about wanting the appointment to come quickly but at the same time feeling so nervous that you don't want it to come. Will all be worth it in the long run. :hugs:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## Mikihob

I know how you are feeling about not wanting appointment to come. Our phone consult with the doctor in Seattle is tomorrow morning at 10am! I have been eagerly awaiting this appt so that we can know what our next step is, but now that it's here....I am SUPER nervous. I kinda don't want it to be here because I am so afraid of bad news. ARGH!


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## Rainbow123

Good luck with your telephone appointment tomorrow Mikihob! My DH and I were literally shaking before we went in to see the doctor at our last appointment! Let us know how you get on! XXXXX


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## alliejc77

Hi Ladies, could I join you please? I'm really looking for a place to "fit in" and I guess here is it. Bit of background - started ttc with my now ex partner way back in 2005. Found out he had azoospermia. We ended up splitting up before we ever reached the point of treatment. Fast forward to last year and I'm in a new relationship, about to get married and hubby has his SA test results - yep you've guessed it azoospermia. We couldn't believe it. I'm currently losing weight so we can go down the DIUI route but now I've ran into problems because my periods stopped and I'm currently having tests to see what's going on. I'm hoping it's nothing too serious because it's hard enough to deal with this as it is let alone any more obstacles to overcome. Anyway sorry to ramble and I suppose I should say, I'm Allie and I'm 36. Thanks for reading.


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## deafgal01

Welcome to our boat, Allie. Sorry that you found out your husband has azoospermia but you found a good place for support! I hope further tests reveal no additional issues for you!


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## bubumaci

Hi Allie :wave::howdy: ... I am sorry to hear that you got hit by the Azoo train twice!! But as DG says, this is a super-supportive group! I hope they find out soon why your cycles have gone haywire!!


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## rdleela

Wow, Allie, what are the odds? That's crazy! Welcome to the group, I wish you the very best!


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## Stinas

Welcome Allie!!!
Sorry you got hit twice...what are the odds! You came to the perfect place! Everyone here is great!


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## Izabela

Mikihob said:


> I know how you are feeling about not wanting appointment to come. Our phone consult with the doctor in Seattle is tomorrow morning at 10am! I have been eagerly awaiting this appt so that we can know what our next step is, but now that it's here....I am SUPER nervous. I kinda don't want it to be here because I am so afraid of bad news. ARGH!

God luck with the telephone conversation! :hugs:


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## Izabela

arzoo said:


> I was just stopping by to say hello. Nothing much has changed at our end. We had decided to not share our condition with anyone other than our siblings. I had told my sister a few months ago. DH finally spoke to his sister and as you can imagine I felt my wounds were raw again. Trying hard to deal with it. At times I feel people are very insensitive and since an option might be ok for them they thing it should be for others as well.
> My sis in law has fertility issues of her own and going through IVF, after multiple failures she is now considering surrogacy or donor egg. It was an easy decision for her. But using DS isnt for me and I feel somehow she is not able to understand why it isnt. Sigh!
> 
> I dint have a good weekend, everywhere I went there were mothers playing with babies or friends who were talking about starting family or asking me what our plans were. I am tired of lying that we are thinking about it. I dont want to tell anyone we are trying cause then they will know soon that we have tried and failed.
> 
> We have our next appointment with Ramsey on 19th, nervous about it. Almost dont want the days to pass.

So sorry you feeling low:hugs:. What you doing next should be your decision and DH. Good luck with finding sperm and being successful and hope you never have to consider alternative options.:hugs:


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## alliejc77

Thanks for the welcome girls, feels like I've finally found somewhere that I can feel at home. What are the odds indeed?! Honestly, while we were waiting for the results, everyone kept telling us it can't possibly happen again. What did they know eh? 

Sorry if I don't reply to other messages, just reading lots and will hopefully get to know you all better and be able to join in more as time goes on. 

Thanks for having me. :)


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## Rainbow123

Welcome Allie! That's flipping rough, sorry you've had such an awful time of it. :hugs: This forum really is a god send for ladies like us, glad you found it too! Good luck with your tests and keep us posted! XXXXX


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## Mikihob

Welcome Allie! Sorry you are dealing with azoo too, but you found the right place. These ladies have helped me a lot. We are all here for you! 

UPDATE:
DH and I had our phone consult with the doctor this morning. Basically he thinks that because DH took such high doses of testosterone for so long, the short round of HCG wasn't enough to bring back his sperm. He wants us to start HCG again and pair it with FSH for six months to see if it will help. :cry: FSH is also an injectible, poor DH. SA will be done at 3 months and at 6 months, if nothing changes by then, we will move into the testicular biopsy. We have another phone consult in 3 months time. 

I am glad that the meds will help DH's hormones and make him feel better but I am terribly sad that we have to wait another six months. I really hope that the meds work so he doesn't have to have the biopsy. 

Is it selfish of me to be sad about this news?? Sorry my post became a novel, I just started typing and letting it all out.


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## deafgal01

Miki- It's not selfish at all to be sad about the 6 months wait. :hugs: Let yourself feel sad about it. These are very normal feelings to be having with this journey.


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## Rainbow123

I agree with Deafgal, you are too right going to be feeling rubbish! In our appointment in July, my DH came out really happy because they'd said they would try and get rid of the pain he was feeling in his testicles, I came out crying because he wanted to repeat FSH level and do the y-chromosone test and see us in 8 weeks. There are so many hold ups when on this crappy path. It would be so much more bearable if there was a quick route. I hope that your DH's new meds work this time, but at least if they don't then you'll know you did everything you could so that he doesn't have to have the biopsy, which from the sound of it he doesn't want to do? My advice is to plan in lots of fun time together and enjoy yourselves. Alcohol is also good. Tequila is a godsend! Thinking of you :hugs: XXXXX


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## arzoo

Welcome Allie, Really twice.Hard to believe such bad luck can hit twice. Sorry to hear that. You have come to the right place, I really dont know what state of mind I would have been if not for the understanding of other ladies here on this forum.

Sorry to hear that you have to wait longer Mikihob, hope the wait does not seem long.

Update :
Further bad news at my end. I had gone for my HSG test at the end of September, appointment to see the doc is only in November, but I was anxious about the results and the doctor was kind enough to call me back. But the results are not all good. he said I had good reserves but there was some issue with the left tube and would have to do laproscopy before any further analysis. The line was bad and to be honest I could not follow all the medical terms the doctor was using, and so not really sure what the issue is. I was in a state of disbelief and was not quick to writ down what he said. I think he said something about bifurcation of the tube, and asked me if I had any infection before or an operation etc. which I have not. Now I wish I had not called him and had waited to see him face to face. I kind of feel numb after my phone conversation.
Does anyone here have similar diagnosis and can shed some more light on what the issue could be?

Our wedding anniversary is around the corner and the last time DH has written in the card that - he was eagerly looking forward to the next phase in our life. So much has changed in the last one year. I feel very sad reading those words which he had written last time.


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## Rainbow123

Oh Arzoo, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's so unfair to have another thing like that on top of the azoospermia. My friend has a blocked tube. She didn't want to go the surgery route, and is taking clomid (I think her cycles were a little loopy too) so every other cycle there is the chance of her conceiving. From what I understand, a blocked tube isn't a massive issue, but it's one more slap in the face, isn't it? At least by speaking on the phone you now know. Are you still going in for your November appointment? Hopefully you'll have a good chance to get researching and questions ready for the next time you see the doctor and be sure of what your next move is going to be. Thinking of you lady. 
Oh, and btw, I found a card from Valentine's Day, just before my DH and I started TTC nearly two years ago. My DH had written something like 'Happy Valentine's Day, year of the baby'. Broke my heart to read it. Threw the card away so that I wouldn't have to see it again. I never throw away cards from him!
If you ever need to talk/vent please feel free to PM me :hugs: XXXXXXXX


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## MrsG30

Hi Girls,

so sorry ive been missing for so long. Just spent 30 mins catching up.
Hi and welcome Allie, were a good bunch and pretty much in same boat just in diff stages of our journeys.
I think about you all often and wish you all good luck always.

Who has appointments looming and who is waiting to test???

Some people are so insensitive, so pleased we have this forum

love to you all xxx


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## deafgal01

MrsG- I have been testing and so far all of them are bfn. AF is due tomorrow so I am doing one last test tomorrow. If that's still saying bfn, then I will give AF until Tuesday to make her arrival or I go in for a blood test to see what is my body's status regarding pregnant or not.


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## alliejc77

Hi Ladies, sorry to hear about the tube issue Arzoo, I hope you find out properly what is wrong soon, I hate it when you have to wait :( I've just had a phone call saying my blood results are back and they want to see me but can't get in till Tuesday. I'm now worried sick. I know already that I have a blocked tube and I really don't think I can face having any more problems placed in front of us. To top it all off, this comes the day after my best friend has given birth and I've got the most intense period pains ever but still no actual period. I spent much of last night and today crying. :( I've also got the pleasure of my sis in law giving birth any day now too. I really want to crawl away and hide from the world right now. :'( xxx


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## deafgal01

:hugs: just when you think the pit cannot be any deeper it does. Oh Allie! :hugs:


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## bubumaci

... :hug: without words :hugs:


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## arzoo

Oh Allie, hope the appointment on tuesday goes ok. Its heartbreaking to see so many friends and family having babies. I think each time , next time I be strong and be part of their happiness. but that never works. Hope the better days are just around the corner for us.


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## MrsG30

Deaf- any luck? been thinking about you and had my fingers crossed xx


deafgal01 said:


> MrsG- I have been testing and so far all of them are bfn. AF is due tomorrow so I am doing one last test tomorrow. If that's still saying bfn, then I will give AF until Tuesday to make her arrival or I go in for a blood test to see what is my body's status regarding pregnant or not.

Allie- I know that feeling too well, my best friend had a baby in July and going onto the maternity ward killed me, lots of love to you and fingers x'd xxxx


alliejc77 said:


> Hi Ladies, sorry to hear about the tube issue Arzoo, I hope you find out properly what is wrong soon, I hate it when you have to wait :( I've just had a phone call saying my blood results are back and they want to see me but can't get in till Tuesday. I'm now worried sick. I know already that I have a blocked tube and I really don't think I can face having any more problems placed in front of us. To top it all off, this comes the day after my best friend has given birth and I've got the most intense period pains ever but still no actual period. I spent much of last night and today crying. :( I've also got the pleasure of my sis in law giving birth any day now too. I really want to crawl away and hide from the world right now. :'( xxx


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## deafgal01

The witch finally showed last night. So I will contact office tomorrow morning and see if the protocol is the same this cycle or if anything changes.


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## MrsG30

So sorry to hear that.
let us know whats next and lots of love xxx


deafgal01 said:


> The witch finally showed last night. So I will contact office tomorrow morning and see if the protocol is the same this cycle or if anything changes.


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## Stinas

DG - im sorry! I was really hoping this was it for you!


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## deafgal01

Another round of IUI for sure but no idea if anything changes like blood draw a week after or paperwork before IUI.


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## Ophelia20

Hi ladies,

I've read a lot of inspiring stories on here. Did not realise a lot of people are going through same thing as myself and my partner are going through.

So here's my story. I have a 7 years old son and been with my partner for 5 years since my son was two, we had always said we were going to get married, but i think i kinda wanted to have kids anyway. So early jan/feb this year, I decided for both of us to get checked. Results came back that he had no sperm:nope: it was quite strange as we had never heard of anyone not having sperm before.
I felt like the doctor did not give us any information about this condition and just said to come back after 6 weeks for more tests. After the results, we both went into depression mode, it was the worst 6 weeks of our lives. I am actually studying and actually flunked most of my exams as I was crying every single day. I did not know how to deal with the situation or who to talk to and my partner on the other hand was contemplating suicide. It was horrible.
Anyway, after 6 weeks.He did the SA again and it was same thing. This was when the doctor then checked him over and said everything looked normal and his FH levels seem ok. He then suggested to surgery to see if there is a blockage.

But since then, I feel my partner has kinda given up just like I have in a way. He says he wants to do the surgery but does not make any effort to contact the urologist we were referred to. I feel we're drifting a[art day by day and I don't know how long we can carry this on for.

I just needed to let this out somehow, as I feel I am still depressed deep down even though I refuse to accept it. I have recently just cut off almost all of my friends and just wanna be in doors most days even when am supposed to go to Uni. Half the time I feel like just running away from this situation, I honestly do not know how to deal with this.

I am sorry if my story is too long, but just wanted to tell my story and how I feel to someone.
:cry::cry::cry:


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## deafgal01

Ophelia- counseling might be helpful. It sounds like you both are not coping too well with the situation. Are you still in school right now or taking a break? This kind of thing is very emotional and maybe a break from school to refocus on what can be done would be helpful. There are other things they can do so don't lose hope. Some guys actually just have blockage and can still have babies from their swimmers while others (unfortunately) like mine have nothing, not even anything explainable so we are going with donor. By the way, where are you from?


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## bubumaci

Ophelia :howdy:

I am sorry that you are being confronted by this issue!! It is so hard for anyone who has to deal with any form of infertility. I think in a way, it is even tougher for men than for women, as it "curbs" their masculinity. DG is right, counselling might be a very wise step for the two of you. It will take time for him to digest this information - it sounds like you are both still young, so give him some time for it all to sink in ... and then go forward together. As DG says, there are still options - and it is so important that you are there for each other on your journey down this road. So give yourselves the time you need ... it also sounds like you are also well on your way to depression : don't let that happen, get help, go speak to someone - you mention Uni - is there a University counsellor? 

Certainly with my DH, everything took time - from him accepting that he needed to get an SA done (he kept postponing, "if this month we don't get pregnant" ... this was a couple of years ago)... each appointment at the clinic, while I was raring to go - another month or two didn't matter to him ... and I couldn't understand why. At first, donor sperm and adoption were out of the question ... in the last few months, his opinion of those two options is changing - as he digests it all - as he sees me go through the treatment + disappointment time and time again. And me - I didn't want to waste one second ... two years into the fertility treatment, I am also more relaxed - if we take a break for a month or three, then so be it.

Look after yourselves Sweetie - it is such a tough journey to be on, please be supportive of each other, please take time to let this sink in and please, do go speak to someone!!

Sending you huge :hugs:


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## Stinas

Ophelia - if oh is contemplating suicide, he needs to see someone. Surgery or not, this is a long and hard process to go through. It's not an easy fix. Unfourtunately you have a few more tears to shed. Sorry, but it's the truth. 
But let me tell you....after all those tears, the end result makes it all worth it. 
Call the urologist ASAP, once oh is ready. Maybe you can tell him some of our stories to make him realize he's not the only one. 
My dh had same diagnosis...pretty much nothing was wrong...did TESE and got sperm...started IVF...didn't work....did an unblocking surgery....ended up not being what was causing the blockage....started IVF again...got preg but mc .....started our final frozen transfer before going to surgery again and am now 10w preg with twins. 
So long story short...it's a long process you both just have to be strong and somewhat patient. 
Good luck. You found a great thread!


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## Mikihob

Welcome Ophelia and I am sorry you have to be in the same boat as us. As Stinas said you found a great thread. I myself some days have the desire to sit in bed and not get up. Since I stay home most days I find reasons to not go anywhere, I hate baby showers because that means I need to find baby gifts. Sometimes looking at the baby section makes me cringe. It's normal for such sadness and anger and, and, and to creep up, but you two need to stick together. My DH doesn't have testosterone either. He has no sperm and no T. He is miserable and doesn't care about anything in the world because of how he feels. Let your OH know he isn't alone. Have him read our thread posts. He will see that he isn't alone. There are also male infertility threads out there for men to talk to each other. If he wont' see a counselor, at least have him try that. Talking to these fantastic ladies is the only reason I am still sane and can cope with all of this. Hang in there, we are all here for you.


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## Mikihob

UPDATE! 
If we buy DH's HCG and FSH three months at once, we get a $500 discount. A total of $1,000 saved for his whole six month treatment. Yes please. BUT, we have to pay $4,143.52 for each three month cycle. I was heartbroken. We can only afford to do it once, and the doc said he isn't sure if three months would be enough and if it's isn't he still needs to be taking both during his biopsy. 

We have decided to postpone starting until we can afford to do both cycles back to back like instructed. It's terribly sad that now we have to wait for who-knows how long to even start the six month regimen. I am just heartbroken. I sure hope we can get to that point soon. Some days I don't feel like I am strong enough for this battle. :cry:


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## deafgal01

Miki :hugs: loads of hugs for you!


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## Stinas

Miki - Im sorry. Unfortunately us azoo chicks get to experience a lot of delays. It just overall sucks! 

Is it only me or do some of you think azoo could be caused by the shit in our food now and days? I really think it is. All these hormones and crap. Just curious if it was only me.


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## Mikihob

Stinas said:


> Miki - Im sorry. Unfortunately us azoo chicks get to experience a lot of delays. It just overall sucks!
> 
> Is it only me or do some of you think azoo could be caused by the shit in our food now and days? I really think it is. All these hormones and crap. Just curious if it was only me.

I keep reading about all of the other ladies delays and wonder how any of stay sane!! 

Some women are lucky enough to have their husbands azoo corrected, fixed, whatever you want to call it, but putting then on vitamins and the right diet and also having them stop drinking and smoking all together. I have wondered. But then I think about those that aren't that lucky and wonder...


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## deafgal01

I do think sometime some things we eat and do in today's world has an effect on men's swimmers. But then again we have more technology and drs have more ways to diagnose an issue with sperms that they could not do even 40 or 50 years ago. Medical field is amazing like that with changes happening all the time with the more knowledge and research they gain.


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## alliejc77

Hi ladies

It's been busy on here since I last checked in and I'm still getting to grips with everyone's journeys so forgive me if I mix anything up.

DeafGal01 - I'm sorry your last cycle didn't work :( 

Mikihob - Having to delay sucks big time. I hope it comes round quickly for you. 

Ophelia - I remember that well from when I went through this first time round with my ex. He just took way longer than I did to digest things, to decide which course was right for him and basically just everything. I had to be really patient and accept that it was just how it had to be. I could really relate to everything you said you felt, it bought it all back. My heart goes out to you. You will both get through it together, it does take time and I won't say it ever gets easier but it does become less raw. If that makes any sense. 

I have finally started my period today after a two and a half month absence. Off to doctors tomorrow for blood test results and am really nervous. Have done nothing but comfort eat all weekend, bang goes the diet! 

Allie x


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## bubumaci

I have thought about that - whether it can be due to the environment ... I think, TBH, that it isn't necessarily to do with that. I think it is more the fact that we know about it, we have fertility clinics to go to and we can, in some cases, do something about it to still get pregnant. Back way back when - it was put down to the woman that she couldn't have children... It is much more spoken about - most of us on here do speak about it to friends and family - I think it has just become much more known.
I mean if I just look at DH and his brother. DH - Azoo - his brother, a fertile god! (They got pregnant after just a couple of months' trying - but went and got checked out because they knew about our issues... BIL : I think the figures were 40 MIO or something like that with pretty much 100% motility + morphology). Both raised same, same foods, same environment etc. etc. - and yet DH : Azoo.

@ Miki - just a thought for you ... on another thread, we have a lady who had to go the route of DE (after a few IVF tries). They didn't have the money to pay for it, especially after going through IVF - and so they set up a donor site on (I think it is called gofundme or something like that) the internet. I know that most people on our thread donated (I did, quite a considerable amount), family donated, friends donated, strangers donated - their story was on there and people just wanted to help. I don't know whether or not people around you know of your "plight", whether it is something you have kept secret ... I don't know if this could be for you, but if you decide you could do it, I am confident that you would find support coming from the most unexpected corners of the world and perhaps getting you to your financial goal must faster than you could have believed.

I wish you all the luck in the world - I know what it means to have to pay for this (I am privately insured, DH is state insurance. Over here, the insurance company of the "cause" has to pay ... so my insurance doesn't pay a cent towards the infertility treatments - if it had been me, everything would have been covered. DH's costs are so low, his insurance pays 50% ... so about 40 EUR! It means that we are entirely out of pocket for the whole ride - and by now, we have paid a small fortune and certainly a nice new car's worth) - On top of all the stress of the infertility comes the finance question. I really hope that you can get there and perhaps you would consider getting financial help from the "universe"?

xxx

*edit* the lady who did the gofundme is happily pregnant with some nice :cold: waiting to become siblings :)


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## arzoo

Hello everyone! just checking in to see how you all are getting on. On sunday we met up with a friend who is an andrologist and even she could not give a definite reason for what the cause could be. I guess in some cases you will never find out. and guess what is what makes is tougher to accept. Almost as though you cant answer the question why me/us.

As many of you rightly said, the wait in between tests and medicines with more follow up tests drives me nuts. exhausted! But i guess nothing much can be done, we just have to be patient and remain positive. My friend told me the changes of finding sperm in the case of non obstructive is very low in the same breath she asked us to remain positive as positive emotions and less stress will help the outcome. I know I am rambling. I just want it to be saturday , when DH goes for his sperm analysis post the 3 months on tamoxifen.


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## alliejc77

Hi Arzoo - I hope Saturday comes quickly for you. 

Well I'm back from my appointment. All my blood tests came back normal bar one. I have high levels of prolactin. I have been referred to see an endocrinologist and told that I will most likely have an MRI to see if the pituitary gland is enlarged :S I wasn't expecting this at all so didn't have a clue about it and have had to read up. It seems like you can have a non cancerous growth or swelling but that's not the only cause so it's just a case of wait and see. I'm so relieved it's not early menopause or POF but also a tiny bit scared. :S (tiny?) xxx


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## tulip11

Hi my hubby testosterone level is 10.5 and elevated FSH of 13.2 . Tomorrow he ill start his second month of clomid 25mg is there anyone whose hubby hormones are somewhat like this ?


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## bubumaci

I will check what levels DH had tomorrow, I can't remember to be honest, just that all levels were normal and there was no explanation for his lack of :spermy:


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## deafgal01

My dh had elevated FSH but like I mentioned meds did not help our case. I have no idea or record of his level numbers though.


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## bubumaci

So, looking at his results, his testosterone was a bit low at 3.3 ng/ml (normal range is 3,5 - 8,6). FSH was fine at 5.4 IU/l where the normal range is 1,0 - 10,1. I am assuming that your values are also ng/ml and IU/l? When looking on the internet, many of the statistics were in decilitres not millilitres for testosterone...

I still can't get over, how many people suffer from unexplained infertility - it somehow makes it even harder - not only suffering from it, but not being able to understand where it comes from!


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## arzoo

I completely agree with you Babumaci, the most frustrating part is not being able to identify what the cause is. At times I compare it to being hit by a car from behind and not being able to see what car it was . There are so many vague theories out there, high level of pollution, amount of packaged food and the chemicals in them, and so on. What my DH finds very frustrating is , he is otherwise a healthy person , not a smoker and only drinks occasionally. So why!


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## Izabela

deafgal01 said:


> The witch finally showed last night. So I will contact office tomorrow morning and see if the protocol is the same this cycle or if anything changes.

Sorry to hear was negative.:hugs: but is only the first.

My FET ended up in a chemical.


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## deafgal01

I scheduled a consultation appt with dr, the earliest is after my fertile time so won't do IUI this month and hoping to have plan for next month regarding best use of my remaining two vials. I am just worried and scared the other two will have similar or zero count that survived the freeze and thaw process so I am considering maybe doing stimulated even though I ovulate fine on my own.


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## Stinas

DG - It wont hurt to ask the doc about doing a medicated one.


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## Rainbow123

So sorry Deafgal. Thinking of you lovely :hugs: XXXXXXXXX


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## NikkiR143

My hubby dropped off his sperm sample to the lab this morning. I've been constantly checking the Kaiser website for the results- and they're in! It says..."See Note" on a lot of it and "TND" - test not done. So I'm assuming no sperm was found :-(((

I've emailed his doctor for more information since this is all I can see for now. I'm so worried. I am at work sweating and dreading hearing the news. Ugh...


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## deafgal01

Oh Nicole :hugs:


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## spark_28

Hello everyone,

I am just going to jump right in here. I am hoping to get some feedback on mTESE and how many of you did or did not choose to proceed with it and what was the deciding factor? Also, if you did move forward with it how successful were you end results?

We discovered that my husband has azoospermia this year in Jan. Since then we have gone through a series of tests and treatments, including one TESE biopsy in May which revealed nothing. At out last consult this week our Dr. informed us that a mTESE in conjunction with IVF was our only chance at a biological child and even then he couldn't guarantee anything. We do not want to use donor sperm. At this point we just have to decide if we take the chance or not. Even though every person is different it would be reassuring to hear any success stories, as I am mostly finding the opposite with my internet searches.

Thank you and I wish you all the best on this extremely frustrating and seemingly impossible journey.

I should also mention that about 5 years ago my husband was producing sperm...only one or two but they existed. The Dr. has no idea why is no longer producing. Everything about him is normal except for having an elevated FSH level.


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## deafgal01

Spark- my dh and I decided not to do mtese because we had no way of knowing if they would find any swimmers so we did not see the point of going broke over that type of surgery due to no coverage for infertility treatments.


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## spark_28

deafgal01- that's what we are struggling with. IF there was some sort of reassurance that sperm would be found it would be a much easier decision. Our doc says we are at 40-50% but then again maybe not. There's just no way of knowing. And then to go through an entire IVF cycle and my husband to have the surgery AND to possibly toss 25-30k down the drain for nothing is definitely a decision that cannot be taken lightly. We decided to move forward with and IVF consult simply to see how things are sitting on my end. Are you going to use DS or anything like that? Our insurance also does not cover any infertility treatments, so it adds to the already stressful situation.


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## deafgal01

Yes I chose my donor. We decided we rather try one friend first and not the sperm bank. However the costs do add up but I tell myself we would have spent just about the same amount on donor's tests as we would have if we bought sperm from bank.

My breakdown of costs so far

$190- consultation appt with clinic
$330- two 1-hour counseling sessions (one was with donor on phone)
$1700- donor tests (3 sa and physical and lab work)
$200 (plus another $203 this month)- my hsg at surgery center
$330- first IUI
$95- progesterone level blood work

That is what I have had done so far. I will have another $190 consultation appt on Halloween before I proceed with any more iui- my donor has good sa but I was shock by the quality after postwash and freeze & thaw process so I want to review all information and see if we need to up my chances by getting me to release more eggs on medicine.


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## Stinas

DG - I never realized going the donor route costs just as much as a FET pretty much does. Crazy!


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## deafgal01

Stinas I had no idea til you mentioned it. Crazy indeed. :haha: if only we can get insurance to cover treatment too we would be all set!


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## Stinas

Dg - tell me about it. I'm in the hole a good 150k. I got a call from my insurance company today. Apparently it's an ob that would like me to keep her number just in case I need anything. Lol then she went on to congratulate me on my twin pregnancy and how amazing it was for twins twice. These people had I went to full term last preg. I told her that was quite impossible considering I lost them this may. Not to mention my D&C was covered hb insurance. 
Interesting how these things work. They have no clue. The lady was pretty much speechless. I told her I have great docs and don't need another one lol


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## deafgal01

Love it when people make fools of themselves. I bet she put her foot in her mouth when she found out about your losses.


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## Stinas

Yup. You would think insurance should have that on record lol morons


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## deafgal01

For sure! :hugs:


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## Rainbow123

Stinas - what a doosh that woman who rang you is! Flipping unbelievable!

Spark - My DH and I found out at the same time as you, Jan just gone. We are currently waiting for a date for mTESE. We're going to do a fresh cycle of IVF/ICSI with DS back up, as they wouldn't do a fresh cycle without DS backup and if they DO find any sperm in the mTESE, it is more likely to be usable in a fresh cycle (I believe there is a low chance of thawing azoo sperm after freezing it). We were also given about a 50% chance, and like you the only symptom my DH has is a slightly elevated FSH. It's so difficult to come to terms with using DS, especially when we won't know whether we're using it until right before the ICSI, but we've decided that we definitely want babies and that might be the only way. We have both taken a little bit of time to come round to the idea, but I think we're in a good mind set with it now. The biggest worry I have is telling our family, should we need to use DS. I just don't want them to look at my DH differently, or our baby for that matter. It's such a painful journey, but I think it has brought DH and I even closer than we were before. I know that once we're parents the pain will go away and we won't even think about it any more. There are so many difficult decisions to make on this journey, but you just have to do what's best for you. When are they thinking about doing your DH's mTESE? We've been told the end of this year for us, fingers crossed!
XXXXXXXXXX


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## Stinas

Rainbow - we used TESE sperm...there was no problem with the freeze/thaw process. 
I also don't think it's anyone's business if you end up using donor. It's between you and dh. No one needs to know. Not that your ashamed of it, but they will never know what we go through with azoo. Tell people when you feel the time is right or not at all.


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## deafgal01

I agree with Stinas. It is not people's business to know about donor or not so totally up to you if you feel comfy with them knowing. It sounds like you are not so I would hold off on telling them such details until at least after you share that with your baby (if it comes down to that). Chances are the baby will look so much like your man and you that it won't cross people's minds that maybe a donor was involved.


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## Mikihob

Hi ladies. 

Thanks Bubumaci for the advice. I will set-up a gofundme and see if I can raise some money for our fertility meds and the IVF we will be needing. I appreciate it.

I received awful news today. Apparently my grandmother has had cancer for some time but didn't share it with anyone until now. The cancer has started to spread worse. The docs want to start radiation and possibly chemotherapy. They say that with treatment they expect her to live 4 months - 1 year. I am devastated. I keep crying. I always planned on sharing our babies with her. They would be her first great grandkids. 

I don't how to cope with bad news anymore. I keep getting more and more bad news.Worst part, my mom had cancer too when I was 14. I had a biopsy of my cervix in Jan 2012 because of abnormal cells. I am scared, angry, sad, heartbroken, you name it, I am feeling it. How do I find the strength to keep on going?? :cry:


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## bubumaci

Miki - I really hope that it works. Make sure to put the link in your signature :) :)

I am also so sorry to hear about your Grandma! Unfortunately - there are just some years like that ... (Beginning of May, my Mother was diagnosed with cancer. My paternal Granny died on May 10th, we buried her on the 20th in England ... 25th I drove to Budapest to help look after Mama ... she died 6 days later on May 31st - so both gone in May) ... my miscarriage / misimplantation in August ... Cholecystectomy in September ... 
Sometimes, there just seems to be no end to the negative things that hit us - and it just seems to be the pattern, that we are hit with many bad things at once (almost like fate is taunting us to not get back up again).

If I may give you some advice? Cherish the next months that you have with your Grandmother (if she choses not to have the treatment, then support her with her choice - if she chooses to have the treatment, the same) - if there is anything you want to say, make sure its said ... I am sure that there are a number of you who are impacted by the painful eventuality of her leaving this planet physically (I do believe in the soul and certainly when we had our most recent transfer, felt my Mother there stroking my head and holding my hand) - be there for each other. You will go through such a huge amount of different emotions...

Is your Mom OK now? And everything OK with you? I really am so sorry, deeply sorry that you are going through this! You will find the strength, I promise you! And if at times you feel you can't go on - then let yourself feel it. Let yourself grieve in advance. It is physically and emotionally exhausting - but you must allow yourself to go through it. Give yourself a chance to deny the truth, then to start understanding the truth .. be angry, be sad, be frustrated ... and at some point, to start accepting the truth. I think all people go through grief, at different speeds. Please don't suppress it - let yourself work through it, at your pace. And I really hope that you have people around you (DH, friends, family) who will give you the support when you need it ... and who will let you cope with it in your own way!

I wish you much strength and more for what will come!!! And if you want to PM me - anytime!! xxx


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## deafgal01

Also wanted to add regarding your grandma- would she allow you to record her stories on video or cd to share with your future babies? It might help you with being able to share her with your future babies that she misses out on meeting but I assure you she prob knows deep down inside what they would be like!

As for coping- everyone copes with stress or bad news or anything differently. Do you find comfort in doing art like paintings or crochet/knit? Or are you more the type to watch movies or read books to 'escape'? Also important- maybe start doing breathing exercises or visualization/guided imagery to help you clear your mind of the negative and bring in the positive thinking skills. :hugs: again I am so sorry to hear about your grandma fighting cancer and being given that timeline but you know drs are wrong sometimes.


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## Rainbow123

Aw Miki, I'm so sorry to hear about your grandma. I agree that all the crappy things seem to come at once, goodness knows why. I agree with all the wonderful advice given already, especially the bit about allowing yourself to grieve. I've found that if I bottle it up, I feel low for a lot longer. If I allow myself a good cry, to acknowledge how I'm feeling and talk it through with DH, I do still feel crappy for a little while but it tends to help me find the way back up again a lot faster. Lots of love :hugs: XXXXXXXXXXX


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## Rainbow123

Thank you Stinas and Deafgal for the sound advice! It's exactly like that - I don't feel ashamed but I just don't think it's anyone's business. My DH's parents don't know what our specific fertility issue is (they actually have implied that they THINK it's my tubes, but we've been pretty tight-lipped about it). They have told DH that we should share the details with them and the rest of the family!!! Invasion of privacy or what!? When DH was so laid back about what they said, I told him that had we become pregnant naturally, we would not gone into detail with them of how we got pregnant! Grrrr! But yeh, I'm still struggling to make these decisions with DH and I think holding off completely until we know for definite what we want to do/say is good advice.
Thank you lovely ladies, it means so much to have your advice! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## gem10

Hello ladies. I have been MIA ever since I got my :BFN: This has probably been the hardest thing I have ever been through. I went into a very dark place when I got the results. I couldn't seem to stop crying. Surprisingly, my DH was very optimistic. He keeps saying that he knows the next time it will work. But, its just so hard to know we had five embryos that were genetically ours, and we worked so hard to get them, and now they're all gone. I felt like I lost a child, when I never even was pregnant. No one seemed to understand how I felt, and it also seemed like no one wanted to even talk to me. I know people struggle with knowing what to say, but to feel like your isolated, it almost made me feel like some sort of freak that no one wanted to talk to. Finally, after two major meltdowns last weekend, I finally feel like I am getting back to myself, somewhat. At least, I have stopped crying! 

I spent an hour this morning getting caught up. Welcome allie and ophelia. I think you will be comforted knowing there are a group of women at your fingertips who know exactly where you are coming from. It has certainly helped me. I want to thank everyone for the prayers and kind words you sent me through this all. 

I want to address a couple of things that came up over the last ten pages I read!!
*
Diet*- So, I have been reading up on this. I think that it may not be the cause, but I think if you change your diet it may help your success for the next round. My accupuncturist recommended a book to me, and I have found it to be an easy read so far. It's called The Infertility Cure, by Randine Lewis. I have completely changed my diet in hopes that I may have healthier eggs next round. So, in a nutshell here's what we are doing:

**No red meat, alcohol or caffeine (This is hard!!! I allow my self two cups of coffee on Sat and Sun as a treat. My accupuncturist said ONE glass of red wine on the weekend may be beneficial, not the whole bottle like I used to do, lol)
*organic meat (chicken)
*salmon
*no processed foods
*veggie/fruit smoothie every morning (If anyone wants ingredients let me know. I replaced my coffee with this. I make them all on Sunday and freeze them for the week ahead)
*almonds, pumpkin seeds, maca nut
*beans
*dark leafy greens
*organic green tea
*red raspberry leaf tea-conditions the uterus
*CoQ10
*prenatal
*ConceptionRX -prenatal for the hubbie, he was also put on chlomid
accupuncture once a week and fertility yoga

*mTESE*- So some ladies were wondering about this. We did mTESE and they were actually able to find 13 sperm. However, the urologist who did the surgery said they went in three times and found nothing. It was the embryologist at my fertility clinic who actually took the time to dig through all of the tissue at his lab who found it. If we did not have that embryologist, the urologist would've (well he did say) that there was nothing and use back-up donor. Our situation is a little bit different. Our insurance covers both DH and my procedures. My heart completely breaks for you ladies who do not have insurance to cover your procedures. It is completely an added stress and I wish that you did not have to deal with finances, on top of everything else. With that being said, our first round of IVF did not work. So now DH has to have mTESE again, and that same fear has returned wondering if they will find anything this time. It just sucks. 

*Pregnancies*- It seems as though everyone is pregnant!!!!! One of close friends gave birth a week before my :BFN: and my best friend is due Jan 1. Her sister was calling me as I was going through the transer and failure, asking about plans for her baby shower. Now I love her to death but it is the last thing I care to think about. My husband is different. He says we should be happy for them. But it is simply not that easy. What helps me is thinking when I get pregnant (because I have faith that someday our day will come, for all of us!) I want them to be there for me. So I have been trying my best to be a good friend and be there for them. It kills me every time I talk to them about their babies and pregnancies, but I put on a brave face and think, this is only making me stronger. Not to say that I dont curse every other person who announces their pregnancy! Lol. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but wanted to catch up. I am praying for all of you. Deafgal I am sorry this didn't work this round. Praying for success next round. If I missed anyone I am sorry. Just know that with each failure I say a little prayer for each of you, and with each success my faith grows a little for the rest of us. Keep your heads up ladies. Our day will come and our babies will have all the love in the world.


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## bubumaci

Gem :hugs:


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## tulip11

We got an appointment with gynaecologist in December we were expecting genetic test appointment but we got this now don't know what they will do in December appointment?


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## arzoo

Really sorry Miki to hear about your grandmother, so many of us are having one bad luck after the other. Hopefully this is a phase and it will all pass.

An update from me, further bad news, we had been to see Mr Ramsey on Saturday , it was the key sperm analysis after taking tamoxifen for 3 months. The hormones are all at the optimum level, unfortunately they dint find any :( I was mentally prepared for this bad news. I am usually a very optimistic person but in this case I think I am more in touch with reality specially after reading about the low success rates. Mr Ramsey said the next step was to go for mtese but with donor back up so that my eggs are not waste and I am not subject to unnecessary risks. We have spoken to him earlier about this and made it clear that we are not prepared for the donor route. but he had to tell us again that from a medical stand point the best way forward was to use donor back up. I was holding my emotions till then but when he said this, I could not hold back again and started crying. I know very embarrassing. DH was strong and he spoke on our behalf and said that we are keen to go for the synchronised mTese knowing full well the risks but dint want to use the donor route. We managed to convince him and now the next steps are for me to go to Lister and see Mr James Nicopolous. His secretary will contact us.
I also told Mr Ramsey that I had been for my ultrasound scan and also done the HSG , for which the results were not that great. He seemed surprised that I was asked to go for something as unpleasant as an HSG when there was no need to know about the status of the tubes as we have no choice but to go down the IVF route given DH condition. and for IVF tubes are not important (does anyone know why?) He has asked DH to take tamoxifen till one week before the surgery, given that we are just coming to Xmas period, January/ Feb seems most likely the date for the synchronised cycle.
Like many of you here, I am keen to know the cause of azoo. I asked Mr Ramsey and he said that , during mTese he will send off some tissue for biopsy and potentially that could give us some answers. He asked us again if DH had undescended testicles , but we dont know . DH parents have never told us anything, DH is planning on asking them soon. I fear I might get very angry if I know that they hid this information from DH. Has anyone experienced this situation before where the parents never told their DH.

@Spark: Whether or not to go for ahead for a mTese knowing the chances are low is entirely upto what you both want to do and offcourse a huge impact on the finances. Insurance does not cover for us, but the way we are seeing it is, we want to try whatever is possible to have our own biological baby. Unless you try you wont ever know. That is what I told Mr Ramsey when he said that our chances stand at around 10 % and if we still want to go ahead. I feel I never want to be in a situation where I have this question in my mind - what if we did go ahead.

I have just been catching up with the other posts. At times it is easier to hold all your emotions in and other times it is so difficult. It is unavoidable to feel sad or jealous about friends and family having babies. We had friends staying with us over the weekend and I was managing ok, but sunday just before I went to bed I logged into facebook and the first 2 pages were full of proud parents posting photos or comments about how cute their kids are or what fun they have with their babies... I could not take it any further than the first 2 pages I had to have a good cry. I cried for a very long time DH was very worried and tried his best to calm me but I just could not stop and go back to sleeping. Feeling much better this morning.


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## bubumaci

Arzoo :hugs: I am sorry that you have been feeling so down! This journey really has horrendous ups and downs that anyone not on this path couldn't even begin to fathom! :hugs:

Well basically, the tubes aren't important if you are doing IVF because your eggs never need to travel down them. You will stim, once your values + follicle sizes are right, you will inject a triggering hormone and then your eggs will be harvested directly via egg-retrieval. So really, your ovaries need only to produce the follies and the doctors will do the rest. Once the eggs have been harvested, they will be either a) injected with sperm (ICSI) for fertilisation or b) put in a dish with sperm, where the sperm has to find its own way in and fertilise (IVF). That would be decided by the lab technicians depending on the quality of the sperm used. I would be guessing with mTESE, that they would do ICSI - if you have a donor, it might be IVF.

xxx


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## AuCa

bubumaci said:


> Well basically, the tubes aren't important if you are doing IVF because your eggs never need to travel down them.

Although this is true, it's not entirely true. There is a reason why they have women do HSGs even when they undergo IVF due to MFI (so did I). There is certain conditions of the tubes which would cause implantation issues/miscarriages. Moreover, the HSG might pick up large polyps/fibroids in the uterus which again could cause issues with implantation (although a saline sonogram is a better way to detect this).

I haven't been around this board much lately as I've sort of "gone underground" after our IVF BFN as well. So, I completely understand gem10 :hugs::hugs:


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## sharon99

Hello,

Do you all think you can handle another newbie?! :) I've been reading along for several weeks, but now that our first RE appointment is a week away I thought I'd reach out. We got DH's diagnosis about 2 months ago. The torrent of tears has basically tricked down to manageable sadness (although I started crying in the middle of watching The Heat on Saturday night- WTH?!?). Spark, like you we wondering if the TESE would be worth it and have basically decided we can't afford IVF. I think this was slightly easier for me to come to than DH- biology has just never been a huge deal for me. He fully supports using donor sperm now, although I wonder how we both will handle it when it comes to *actually* choosing a donor. Honestly, my biggest struggle is between using donor sperm and adoption. (I have no known issues). Did you ladies using DS struggle with this too? Like I said, biology is not that important to me- and actually, neither is being pregnant. But we would both like to experience having a newborn, and we would like the opportunity to try and make sure the baby is as healthy as possible (I know, no guarantees).

Anyway, that is our story! You all seem like a very supportive group of amazing, strong women. I'm sorry to read about the string of bad luck that's been happening. It seems like azoospermia is a bad enough break, we should all be exempt from additional bad news! I look forward to getting to know all of you better.


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## Stinas

Sharon - Welcome. Im sorry to see you here, but this is a great group! Lots of help here! 
I dont know much about donor since we did not have to go that route....but there are ladies here that could tell you a lot more than I can about it.


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## deafgal01

Welcome Sharon, there is always room for more newbies!

My dh was not open to discussing options at first when we found out stuff, then as we learned more and saw no results in the meds and everything, he warmed up to the idea of donor because at least it would be "half" adoption- aka we still use my eggs but have a baby from that with ds.

We opted out of tese. The biopsy showed nothing for us to hope so we stopped exploring dh's end after that point.


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## arzoo

We went out for a nice dinner last night and at the end of it my DH asked me the question if I was ok to donate my eggs for his sister, who is having fertility issues (failed ivf so now want to eliminate the change that the reason is due to poor eggs) I have always felt she has a very casual attitude towards wanting to have a baby, always giving priority to her professional life over her IVF cycles.

I thought it was very insensitive of him and his sister to ask me , even before we have tried mTese and knowing fully well my thoughts about donors.I am not at that stage of maturity to think about the greater good yet. In future, I may consider donating but to some unknown person but to my own family and then to constantly be reminded everytime I look at that baby's face that it should have been mine if things were in our favour is way too much for me to handle. I dont know who to share these thoughts with and who to ask for advice , thought of posting it here to ask for some thoughts and comments.


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## deafgal01

Arzoo- wow... It is both an honor but also a curse to be asked to do something like that. I personally would not especially if I had not yet had any of my own. If you feel you could not cope with the reminder that your possible niece or nephew could have been your own baby, then don't do it. I would definitely take my time to think it over since it does mean doing it for the right reasons, and with a big heart if you decide that you are ok with donating your egg to his sis for use to have her babies.

Are there any support group that can share their experience regarding this? I am curious what they would say of their experience.

I think it is rather insensitive to ask before you even explore your options for having your baby. Furthermore, it would have been better had his sister asked, and not him...


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## Tammerzann

Arzoo: I wouldn't even think it right to ask anyone for an egg donation before they had their own children (infertility on the donor side or not). If there was someone who had had their full of babies and was "done" making their own family maybe then would be appropriate. But when they are in the middle of their own infertility struggle and figuring out their own options is IMO downright rude and disrespectful. 

Ok now that I've stated my piece I will calm down now and take myself out of your shoes. Phew that made me hot. Sorry you had to experience that. Thank goodness for BnB venting!


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## Stinas

Arzoo - men are just not that bright. I'm sure he didn't mean to seem insensitive, he was probably just trying to help his sister through a struggle familiar to yours. 
At this stage in your diagnoses....I would just focus on yourself....you need to figure your own infertility plan before helping someone else, regardless family or not. 
Personally I would not be able to do it and constantly see that baby either. I'm sure with time knowing you did a good deed, it will pass, but as of now, worry about yourself. Tell dh that too. As much as you may feel for her infertility pain, it's you that needs to be top priority.


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## bubumaci

Arzoo :hugs: - I was shocked when I read your post! :(
I agree with the pps - when DH suggested using his brother's :spermy: as donor instead of someone we don't know, I was totally against it (apart from the fact that we are not going down that road yet - if at all). I couldn't even imagine thinking it's his baby growing in me / having to tell the child that his uncle is his Father?!?! And I think it would have been equally tough for the brother + his wife, knowing that we have his child! Definitely think it would have to be a stranger... BUT : you are the focus here, you have your own struggles, figuring out how you both become parents. As trusting as it is of your SIL to come - indirectly - to you for help - the timing couldn't be worse!
I am sure you will be able to make DH understand that, that you are sorry for SIL's struggles, but you have to come first!! <3 :hugs:


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## NikkiR143

Good morning everyone! I've posted on this blog before but just a little background...

My DH had an undescended testicle as a child. He had the corrective surgery, but the testicle still didn't drop and remains in his abdomen to this day. I know this raises his chances of cancer, so this is something I've told him he needs to have looked at. 

His left testicle is normal though, so he never suspected fertility would be an issue. Well we've been trying for about a year and 3 months. I finally convinced him to go in for a semen analysis and these were the results...

Collection time, semen 0925
Semen volume >=2.0 mL	1.5
SEMEN, TIME READ 1015
Liquefaction, semen NO
SPERM AGGLUTINATION 3+
Spermatozoa, rapid % >=25	SEE NOTE
Interpretation SEE NOTE
SPERM COUNT, SEMEN TND

TND stands for "test not done". I'm not sure what that means. Did anyone else's husband's have similar results? The Kaiser website doesn't allow me to click on "see note". I've read that the semen is supposed to liquefy, so that's not good. And 3+ agglutination means sperm are clumping. But not really sure what that means either. 

We have a fertility consultation on December 2nd (that was their earliest appointment) but I'm completely impatient. Any advice or help you could give me would be great! It's almost as if they didn't complete a full semen analysis. Ugh...frustrating!


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## arzoo

Thank you very much for your posts. You are right, what would I do without you ladies to vent out . No one can understand me better than you guys who are in the same unfortunate state as I am. At times during the day I started to doubt if I was over reacting and if it was ok for someone to ask me this favour at this point in my life. But as all of you have clearly stated it just isnt right. what annoyed me even further was the fact that my sis-in-law apparently made my DH ask me and they have been discussing this for a while. Apparently she has even suggested that we could use her husband's sperm so I can have my baby. What were they thinking! Wish he was sensible to have filtered it himself. I am really not looking forward to the evening cant say I have been strong through the struggle , but I have always been supportive of DH making him never feel as though he was to blame. But today was the first time I am angry and mad at him.


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## Rainbow123

WOW arzoo, that's such a big ask! I completely agree that you need to put yourself first at the moment. It's bad enough seeing friends getting pregnant with their own eggs, can't imagine how painful that could be if she got pregnant with your eggs before you! Also, it's a lot to put your body through to have the egg retrieval and you probably need all the energy - emotional and physical - that you can get at the moment. It would be so nice if men didn't have "the emotional range of a teaspoon" (quote from Harry Potter lol!). Hugs XXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## Rainbow123

Welcome Sharon! It's such a mind boggling time when you first find out so I'm really glad you found this forum, it's definitely been a godsend to me! My DH found the concept of DS INCREDIBLY difficult to begin with (back in March-ish time) but is now completely on board. I never thought he would come around, but luckily he did! XXX


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## deafgal01

Nicole- I cannot interpret any of that so sorry that I am not of much help.

Arzoo- a while? How long is a while? Oh I would be pissed if he had been talking his sis a while about these kind of options. There is no way I would allow family members to be the donor of my baby!


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## Izabela

Arzzo I agree with the girls . I would not accept a family donor sperm or eggs if I ever need. I would also not donate to family but I am happy to donate to someone else. If I had my family I may consider being a surrogate for a family member but only once my family would be completed. Imagine how hard would be if you do not agree with their way to parent... Your husband should understand your feelings once you explain to him and also his sister may just not think things through. She can use unknown egg donor and if they are in a rush and want to jump in front of the waiting list some clinics in UK offer priority and cheaper IVF to sperm donor, so her husband can also anonymously donate.


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## Mikihob

Hi Arzoo. i agree with the other ladies as well. It would have been better had your SIL come to you personally, instead of DH. Did she ask him to ask you or is he suggesting it without her knowing? If I were in your shoes I would say NO. If I had already had my kids and been done, it might be different. What happens if you do decide to donate, you keep half to freeze and she takes half (or even if she takes all of them), and she gets pregnant right away?? I could not watch her pregnancy and be happy or enjoy having that niece or nephew. It would be far too heartbreaking knowing she was successful with your eggs and that that could be your child. Wow. What a tough spot. I am sorry that you are put into such a hard situation. :hugs:


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## arzoo

Hi Nicole. Sorry don't know what those results mean. The long wait can be frustrating can you call and request the doctor to call you back ? I did that when I could not wait for my results and he was kind enough to call me back.


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## spark_28

Rainbow- Our situations sound so similar. I am thinking we will move forward with the mTESE sometime early spring. Perhaps even January. No dates set yet though. Do you have any concrete dates? Have you started the IVF process? Sending you the very best while you go through this process. It is an added bonus to have a nosy family through it, as if it isn't heart breaking enough! I think we have both decided to not go with DS if nothing is found on the mTESE. But I have wondered if we did decide to use DS if we would even tell anyone about it at all. I am thinking that we wouldn't.


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## arzoo

Thank you Spark for your post made me realise that I have company. I am so glad to know that both you and Rainbow could be having the procedure around the same time as me. I have not started the IVF process. we only met up with the specialist last saturday, we are waiting for the IVF hospital to contact us regarding the appointment.
If you dont mind me asking, where are you based? The reason I am asking is, I am told in the US you cannot go ahead without having a DS as back up. 
I am not yet at the stage to consider DS and if fate forces me to , I would never mention it to family or anyone.
Sending you both and every one else the very best in our attempts to have a family.


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## spark_28

Arzoo- It is so nice to talk with and know others who are facing the same situations. It really is a source of comfort. We are in the US and although we were told we should have a back-up DS, we were not told that was a requirement. I cannot even imagine your DH suggesting that! Especially at the phase you are in now. I mean, it's an emotional roller coaster with already too much to think about. I have wondered what we would do with my eggs if no sperm is found with the mTESE but we have not discussed it because it seems like that is at the bottom of the importance list at this time. Our Dr's MA keeps suggesting DS like it is no big deal whatsoever. Just another day, you know? Irritating. 

Sharon- Hello and welcome. Thank you for sharing your experience. I don't think it is an easy decision at all to decide on DS and then if you decide you are going to use it, it must be even more difficult to decide what DS to use. It definitely adds a new dimension to a relationship, so many emotions to work through.


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## sharon99

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone. I already feel better knowing I have a place to turn to & vent if I need it.

Arzoo, I agree with everyone else's comments. Donating your eggs seems like waaaaaaaay too much to ask at this point in time. Don't they require/strongly recommend surrogates to have had their own children before becoming a surrogate, because otherwise the loss would be too great? It seems like the same logic applies here- if you're struggling and don't have your own kids yet, it would be so hard to see "your" baby all the time at family functions.


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## Rainbow123

WARNING: COMPLETE AND UTTER RANT TO FOLLOW...
Feeling PRETTY frustrated and even more out of control with this f-ing situation. We're in the Isle of Man so have to go through our FS but all the mTESE and ICSI side of things will have to happen in England. We'd just got my DH's letter through to say he's on the waiting list for mTESE after our appointment in Sept so I tried to ring my FS yesterday (to explain the progress we're making with the UK side of things and possible mTESE before the end of the year). She's unfortunately now on long term leave until beginning of Jan. So DH rang the hospital in UK and was put through to the IVF area. They rang back today and they lady basically said that everything we've been told, from the start, by the FS and the urologist who's referred DS for mTESE, is wrong. She said they don't DO fresh/synchronised cycles. Apparently they can't give us an idea of when DH's op would be, but it would likely be next year now and that after performing the op they would freeze what they find and then start to think about preparing me for IVF. She also said that it is also not in their policy for the patients to buy donor sperm that would be used as a back up on an NHS cycle - WTF?! Completely confused and don't know who to talk to as we've got no proper phone number for someone who knows what they're talking about. What's most annoying is that the nurse had DH's file with the appointment notes and the letter we were sent that stated we WOULD be doing a synchronised cycle with DS back up, and she still said they didn't do it!!! I'm hoping she's just f-ed up big time and misunderstood the situation, as the consultant who does the mTESE has only just started at the hospital and as yet has not done any operations (at this particular hospital). So after being told that we would hopefully have the mTESE with synchronised ICSI before the end of the year, I don't know what they heck is going on now. She also told DS that they are starting to 'wind down' for Christmas, so it would be very unlikely that even if his mTESE was before Christmas, they couldn't do anything more until at least the new year. ARE YOU F-ING HAVING A LAUGH!!??? 
She's going to ring back tomorrow after she's found out about the funding business to do with DS, and whether we will be allowed to use DS that we have bought from a sperm bank. 
Am I going completely mad? She said that it would not be possible to synchronise my side of things (egg retrieval) with DH's mTESE, but it's quite common practise to do that isn't it?
Feel like my sanity is slipping away from me at the moment. :cry:


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## deafgal01

Wow that is a mess Rainbow! :hugs: I don't know what to say but sounds like that lady is new and not aware that they do offer these services now! Still kind of rude for her to say things of the sort on the phone!


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## gem10

Arzoo, I am in shock that your husband would even consider asking you that knowing what you're going through. I'm pretty sure that you cant even donate or be a surrogate unless you had children of your own. I know for me I can barely see my friends pregnant with their own kids let alone being pregnant with my eggs! I think you need to focus on yourself and let your sister in law figure out a way to get donor eggs from someplace else. Rainbow I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. I can tell you that in my last IVF cycle we did a synchronized egg retrieval mTESE. So it is definitely possible. I know its horrible when you have to wait because you want everything done right away and it's so frustrating when things get put on hold. We actually decided to wait until January figuring Christmas is a stressful time and the last thing you want is to be stressed during your IVF. I figured January's a long boring month so what better months to get my eggs retrieved! So if that helps maybe you can look at it like that, but I know when you were thinking you're getting it done before the new year not much is going to make you feel better. I really hope it's just a mistake on that woman's part and that they truly can do it on the dates you had planned. This process is stressful enough without having people mess up information! Sending hugs your way!


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## bubumaci

Oh Rainbow - I am sorry that you are now facing additional stress! :( Who needs it, huh?
It seems that synchronised mTESE is possible - see Gem ... perhaps they don't do it there because of DS? I think most places wouldn't start you on protocol, unless they are certain that they will have something to fertilise with? I know it would have been the case with us - they made sure that they got some :spermy: from DH which they froze before doing a stimming cycle with me. Out of the four ICSIs, 3 were with fresh sperm (they were able to pick out enough to do the ICSI - and one they had to thaw one of the straws we had frozen in Spring last year). It makes sense to me to not insist on fresh - the whole process does take a toll on your body - imagine getting to ER and not having anything to fertilise with :hugs: :hugs:
I do hope it all gets sorted out soon!! xxx


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## Rainbow123

Thank you so much ladies. I really do appreciate your support and advice so much! You know what Gem - you HAVE made me feel better by putting it like that, thank you! It hadn't even dawned on me that January would be the most sensible time to do it, with Christmas being so hectic and January being pretty boring, but I think I just got it in my head that it was going to be before the end of the year. It was like a little switch was pressed in my brain and I suddenly went "Oh yeah!"  I hope it is January now!  
Does your DH have obstructive or non-obstructive bubumaci? It worries me that they won't find anything but then I'm doubly worried that if they do find some and freeze it it won't survive the thaw. :-S
The nurse was supposed to phone us back again today but she did not which is a bit naughty. I think if someone tells you they are going to call it's not very good not to, especially when we both rushed home to be here in time for the phone call! Grr!
DH and I both have this next week off so looking forward to some quality time together 
Hope you all have a lovely weekend and thank you again for your advice ladies!
XXXXXXXXX


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## bubumaci

Rainbow, glad to see that you are seeing the positive side of it now :) :) I so know that feeling of being set on something in your mind and "needing" to stick to it - but sometimes it is better to wait a little bit :)
DH is non-obstructive. We have absolutely no idea as to why or where it comes from. Everything seems to be perfect, except for the fact that there are barely any swimmers and if they find some, then they are in some way defective :(


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## Hopeful 1

Hi ladies sorry I have been MIA for a while now and the thread has been so busy so just been trying to catch up with everything I have missed! Sorry to read so many of you are having a hard time of it. 

Gem so sorry for your result I was really hoping it would be positive for you! What are your plans now?

Arzoo - wow what a big ask I was shocked to read you had been asked I totally agree with the others you need to concentrate on creating your own wonderful family before helping others. Doners are wonderful and thoughtful people however are likely not to be facing fertility issues when they are donating I would imagine they have completed their own family and want to help others have the experiences they themselves have been able to have. I'm sure if you already had your own baby you would have felt differently. I'm sure in time your sil and DH will be able to understand this. 

Rainbow - sorry there seems to have been a mix up with your clinic it's frustrating when they dont communicate with one another and your left not knowing what's the plan! I will explain at the end of this post what's the plans are for us and that might help you. 

Deafgal - I'm so sorry for your bfn like I said to gem was really hoping for you it would be your time it's such a hard journey and you put so much into cycles that it's just devastating when it doesn't work! Glad to see you have your next appointment planned and are getting ready to try again.

Welcome alliejc77, Ophelia, spark, Sharon

Milki - I hope the meds are working their magic for you and your DH and the next couple of months passes quickly for you! Just think with Christmas round the corner I'm hoping the next few passes quickly! 

Stinas - I hope you are keeping well.

Sorry to everyone else I have missed out but thinking of you all!!

AFM - have started the nasal spray for DR for the mock FET (although only eggs not embryos) then app in two weeks for a scan, then tablets for two weeks to see how I respond then all being well start again for the real deal!! They are hoping that they will find some sperm in DH's sample and if not he will be back in the next day for a ssr. Really hoping that they find some sperm even if he has to do the ssr, the clinic. We're unable to find any at all in September not sure how we will feel if it's a no go again!! 
If I don't respond how they expect I think I will have to start a fresh with dr them stimms. I don't mind really anything as long as it works. I felt fine the last time and think I was really lucky as didn't suffer hardly anything from the meds so hoping it will be the same this time! I think this would be a synced cycle am I right ladies? 

Wow what a long post and sorry again if I have missed anyone out will definitely try to keep up better!! 

Hopeful xx


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## deafgal01

Hopeful- good luck to you!


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## Hopeful 1

Thanks Deafgal, have been feeling ok so far so good!! How are you feeling about starting again? Will it be a fresh cycle for you or a FET?

Hopeful x


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## deafgal01

No idea, Hopeful. I have an appointment to discuss and reassess our IUI plan with the dr next week on Halloween. I wanted to get his opinion and insight on whether we need more aggressive approach by adding in meds and monitoring me or if he thinks I will take on a natural cycle since I do ovulate on my own. I was concerned about the numbers and motility- so many (from my known donor) didn't survive the freeze and thaw process.


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## tulip11

Hi we got appointment letter with gynaecologist in December after done all the tests with urologist just left with genetic test we are waiting for its appointment letter anyhow what most likely gynaecologist ill do means what would be their further steps those who are far ahead of me in this phase might know waiting for their reply. Thanks and all the best to all the gorgeous ladies out there.


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## arzoo

Rainbow: I just thought of sharing my experience on synchronised cycle and NHS. 

We are in the UK and I am told that they will not do synchronised cycle with mTese. What our doctor told us is that if we wanted to go for synchrnonised cycle with the mTese , our only option was to go private. and it would cost about £11k. Also we are told that fresh sperm (if found!) are better than the thawed ones, as they are not sure how many will survive especially given that DH has azoo. So we have chosen to go private.(Sigh!)
About timing, I completely agree with Gem, we have also taken the decision to only continue with the next steps post christmas as these things takes time to organise (even in private) and so it was best done after the holiday season.

Sorry if my post contradicts what others have said. I am going back to see my doctor next week, I will reconfirm .


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## arzoo

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I finally managed to speak to DH on this topic again and as some of you mentioned made sure that I expressed to him why I was hurt and why it was not the right time to discuss these options at the moment. Also said that I am not ready now and not to wait around because perhaps I will never be irrepective of the outcome of our procedure.

Spark completely agree with you, I dont know why the people at the IVF and Fertility centre seems to bring up the option about donor as though it is just another option.

Question: The doctor has asked DH to start taking proxeed and stop taking the wellman ones till his procedure. Is anyone else taking proxeed?

He also asked DH to have aloads of green vegetables like spinach , brocoli and also berries. Any other recommendations?


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## Rainbow123

Thanks for the info, Arzoo.
It sounds like that might be the case then with the NHS then, drat! :wacko:
I'm just confused as to why we would be told by the urologist and the doctor doing the mTESE that it would be ok to do the synchronised cycle when they knew we were doing this on the NHS. I'm hoping that because we are funded by the Isle of Man that there might be a chance there are slightly different rules for us. Only time will tell. Probably a flipping long time considering the pace of things so far! :dohh:
XXX


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## arzoo

Dont loose hope Rainbow, as you said the rules for Isle of Man funded procedure could be different, as at the end of the day different rules and cut off apply based on the availability of funding and the demand for the procedure.

Good luck. There are so many of us at the same stage in the process, Wishing every one the very best.


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## MrsG30

Ladies

I hope your all ok, i've been catching up, i'm lurking in thee background and will up in when/if needed.

Things arnt great here, not relating to azoo but after reading your stories it seems a few of u are having a hard time.

Im deffo in the minority when it comes to donor as we are using a family member, and we have are reason for this, although i'd agree i wouldn't be giving my eyes away until i had a family myself. All of this has made me want to help people though, so after i have my baby(ies) i will be deffo donating.

Mtese- we deiced against this like Deafgal, my DH has NOA and its down to mumps virus as an adult. the % of finding sperm wasn't worth the risk.

Our DS is currently being prepared, and were back at clinic in Dec.

Emma, was the lady told you on the phone is what we were told her but as your IOM, maybe it is different, have you managed to find anything out?

who got what looming? what we waiting for?

lots of love to all xxx


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## Rainbow123

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed at the moment. We thought the nurse might try to ring us today at 4.30, after failing to do so on Friday, however no such luck. I'm sick of people saying they are going to ring us back and not following through with it. This happened in September when I'd rang up to ask about our appointment and when I did call back a week after they were supposed to, they put me on hold for 10 minutes whilst they sorting out what they seemingly had forgotten to do beforehand. SICK. OF. IT! Grr!
That is so exciting about your DS being prepared! Getting so close! Yippee!
XXXXX


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## AuCa

Good to hear from you MrsG30, it has been a while (I've mostly been lurking too) :hugs::hugs:
Glad that things seem to be moving along with you :thumbup:

Rainbow - I hear you on the frustration. You know, I've been thinking - there is so many books on "dealing with infertility", whereas what I really need is a book on "dealing with fertility clinics/doctors/staff".


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## Rainbow123

AuCa said:


> Good to hear from you MrsG30, it has been a while (I've mostly been lurking too) :hugs::hugs:
> Glad that things seem to be moving along with you :thumbup:
> 
> Rainbow - I hear you on the frustration. You know, I've been thinking - there is so many books on "dealing with infertility", whereas what I really need is a book on "dealing with fertility clinics/doctors/staff".

:rofl: That made me laugh out loud AuCa! Perhaps the ladies on here could collaboratively write one, we all have enough experience of this to write a book on it! ;)


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## deafgal01

Yeah totally can! Mine would be the first fertility clinic dr we visited made a joke about oh it is all his fault (meaning dh). Needless to say we never went back to that one and found a new clinic that we liked better.


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## AuCa

deafgal01 said:


> Yeah totally can! Mine would be the first fertility clinic dr we visited made a joke about oh it is all his fault (meaning dh). Needless to say we never went back to that one and found a new clinic that we liked better.

That is so inappropriate :growlmad:
I remember that our doc told me at the first appointment something like "well, you won't have any biological children (without IVF) unless you find yourself an affair".

Unfortunately we don't have a lot of choices re clinics here, but we are now in the process of getting consults from 2 clinics in other provinces. I can't deal with our current place anymore, even if it means we need to travel....


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## MrsG30

MY GOD, i think i would have punched him, some people ave clearly no idea what this does to people.


deafgal01 said:


> Yeah totally can! Mine would be the first fertility clinic dr we visited made a joke about oh it is all his fault (meaning dh). Needless to say we never went back to that one and found a new clinic that we liked better.




Rainbow123 said:


> AuCa said:
> 
> 
> Good to hear from you MrsG30, it has been a while (I've mostly been lurking too) :hugs::hugs:
> Glad that things seem to be moving along with you :thumbup:
> 
> Rainbow - I hear you on the frustration. You know, I've been thinking - there is so many books on "dealing with infertility", whereas what I really need is a book on "dealing with fertility clinics/doctors/staff".
> 
> :rofl: That made me laugh out loud AuCa! Perhaps the ladies on here could collaboratively write one, we all have enough experience of this to write a book on it! ;)Click to expand...

Emma- i know how you feel its just a long winded process, but WE WILL get there.

Auca- nice to here from you, how are you flower? xxxx


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## MrsG30

its national infertility week here in the UK.
So heres to us girls, UK and all over, i hope you all succeed at your dreams xxxx


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## arzoo

Rainbow: What was the final outcome, hope the nurse managed to clear the confusion.

Gosh how can people think that they can joke about the situation we are in.! Thank you Mrs G I dint realise there was something called national infertility week in the UK.

Lister has received my referral letter and have booked an appointment for the week of the 11th. We are seeing Mr Nicopollous. What should I expect from the first appointment? I am worried that I will have to go through the whole process of convincing him that we want to go ahead knowing the risks that are involved.


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## Rainbow123

Still no phone call Arzoo! I'm going to give them until end of tomorrow and if we still haven't heard from them I will be ringing on Thursday. Such a joke! What is your appointment for with Mr Nicopollous?
XXX


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## sharon99

We had our first meeting with an infertility doctor today. I was hoping she'd say something really insensitive so I could contribute to the forthcoming book! :) The only insensitive thing she said was- after my husband said he's in school for architecture- "I hear the job market for architects here is REALLY TERRIBLE!" This after we'd talked about the mountain of costs coming our way (at our $400 meeting). I can't believe some of the comments you other ladies got- it is not the time or place for jokes! AND it's not the time or place for confusion- Rainbow, your experience made me so mad! I especially like that they're "winding down for Christmas"-- it's October!!

Since I'm on day 2 of my cycle, they drew blood for my day 3 tests. Next I have to do an STD panel, and they require counseling- then I guess we're good to go. Except for the fact that, apparently, I cannot say the words "donor sperm" to anyone (besides DH) without crying! I was ugly crying/sobbing in front of the doctor at one point and once I get going, I am like a runaway train! It was just a little embarrassing. I think I will be OK with donor sperm, but I'm still at the point where talking about it (to other people) makes me lose it. Maybe talking about it makes it sink in that this is real? Have any of you gone to in-person fertility support groups? I know in the US we have RESOLVE, and I wonder if that would help. Knowing my record, I'd just cry through the entire meeting, but whatever.


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## deafgal01

Sharon- I used to feel that way but I have come a long way since so I am more comfy with the idea now though it is still something I do not openly discuss with just anyone.


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## arzoo

That is so frustrating , Sorry Rainbow. We had a tough time following up and pushing our GP to make our referral. 

Rainbow: We are starting our synchronised cycle with the mTese. As I mentioned earlier we are told our only option is to go private, so after our last appointment with Mr Ramsay , he sent a letter of referral to Lister for us to see Mr Nicopollous and this will be our first appointment. I booked the appointment on Monday and last evening when we went home the forms were already at home. These are the consent forms and details about the costs etc. Besides the costs being scary, holding the forms and reading them made it more real for me and as I sat down to read I could not help but feel a lot of self pity and sorrow for our state. But as they say onwards and upwards . 

Sharon, it is absolutely fine to cry. Atleast that is what I say to myself. We got to know about my DH azoo in May , thats 5 months back but there are very few days in the last 5 months when I have not cried thinking about it. Some are strong and can hold back tears where as others like me are not. I cried reading the forms last night.

For the people in the UK, I just got to know about the fertility show that is happening this weekend at Kensington Olympia. There are some interesting seminars etc, if anyone is interested the details are https://www.fertilityshow.co.uk/


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## Rainbow123

I cry all the time Sharon, at what probably seems like nothing to most people. Recently my mother said to be (regarding our infertility), "Well I suppose that's just life". Quickly got off the phone and was then in tethers for a good couple of hours. I know she wasn't intentionally insensitive but I kept thinking "No, it's not just fecking life that we are in this situation!!!", this kind of shiz did not happen to her so I don't know how she could say that. A lot of the time I can have a really good day then some tiny thing will set me off, like going to Tesco last Saturday. DH didn't know where the baby wipes were (we needed some for looking after my niece) so without thinking I went and got them. Dumb Tesco had the biggest sign saying 'BABY WIPES', but were they there? NO! Looked for ages whilst trying to ignore all the baby stuff. A new mum and dad came down the aisle with their baby and I had to leave Tesco with no baby wipes! Doh! Nearly cracked up in Tesco but managed to save it for the car! So, DS is definitely A LOT to get your head around. It is ok to be feeling this way Sharon, I think the more you acknowledge your feelings the easier it becomes. I ignored how I felt about it for a long time and it got me nowhere! We've managed to come quite a way with how we feel about it, but it's still hard to comprehend. I'm not sure that I will ever feel comfortable talking about it to anyone other than DH, but hopefully I will. 

Sounds like you're definitely on your way then Arzoo! Hope you're feeling a bit better about it today. I'm sure that once you've had your appointment with Dr Nicopollous (that's a mouthful isn't it!?) that you'll start feeling more excited. I look forward to hearing how you get on! 

XXXXX


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## arzoo

Thank u rainbow. I plan to read the forms in detail tonight. Any luck with the call back ? 

Question: Has anyone 's dh been asked to take proxeed?


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## Mikihob

I also cry A LOT. DH and I are in the process of doing a 401K withdrawal to cover his HCG/FSH injections and have it ready for IVF. We want to do one withdrawal and not five. I called the company and wanted basic information about what pre-bill forms they will take. They refused to give me help. They told me that basically I am just trying to get his information. I didnt' tell them that I could log into his 401K account right that second and tell them the balance available. SIGH. I had him log into my old account and look at the plan since it's the same as his and he commented that its empty. DUH. I want to know what forms I need. He said he couldn't tell me anything. So I hung up on the guy and then broke down and cried for hours. I find myself crying a little bit every day OR holding it for a few days and then letting it out. It doesn't always help me feel better but it's good to get it out. Sometimes I cry so hard I think that I will never stop. I try to do it when DH isn't around, because then he feels bad for "it being his fault." SIGH. :shrug:


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## Stinas

With this diagnoses crying a lot is the norm. Just remember it will happen eventually...it just may not be as easy or the path you thought you were going to go on, but it will happen. You cant lose hope.


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## Mikihob

Ladies is it bad that I don't want to hand out Halloween candy? I just want to shut all the lights off and watch a quiet movie. I am afraid that I will break down and cry when I see all the kids and babies in their cute costumes. Is that wrong?


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## AuCa

Mikihob- it's not wrong. I don't want to do it either, DH has to do it. It's hard.

About the crying - I bought one of these musical toys today. It's a dog dressed up as a pumpkin and it sings a Halloween song and moves around its ears. Every time I look at it I start crying. And I have no idea why.


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## sharon99

Thank you all so much for sharing your crying stories- they really made me feel so much better.

Miki, I hear you about the trick-or-treaters. I say turn off the lights & eat the candy yourself! I'm feeling thankful I teach on Thursday nights so I'll miss it- I would be doing the same thing if I were home.


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## Rainbow123

That's what I'd like to do too Mikihob! There are so many children on our estate, you can't look anywhere without seeing a child or a baby. I can just about handle Halloween, however at Christmas a sleigh with Father Christmas comes round the houses and I know that THAT is going to be the killer! I hope you manage to get through trick or treating unscathed, Mikihob. Sending you mountains of :hug: XXXXXXX


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## tulip11

Hi we got an appointment letter with gynaecologist in December after done all the tests with urologist just left with genetic test we are waiting for its appointment letter anyhow what most likely gynaecologist ill do means what would be their further steps those who are far ahead of me in this phase might know waiting for their reply. Thanks and all the best to all the gorgeous ladies out there.


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## Rainbow123

tulip11 said:


> Hi we got an appointment letter with gynaecologist in December after done all the tests with urologist just left with genetic test we are waiting for its appointment letter anyhow what most likely gynaecologist ill do means what would be their further steps those who are far ahead of me in this phase might know waiting for their reply. Thanks and all the best to all the gorgeous ladies out there.

That's great that you have your gynaecologist appointment through Tulip! I had all my tests done before we had genetic testing etc for my husband, so kind of the opposite way round to you! They like to arrange for you to have tests, so you probably won't have to have much done in your actual appointment (I did have to have a vaginal swab done to test for something or other, but can't remember what that was as it was so long ago now!). The tests I had to arrange to have done were a day 3 blood test, some blood tests to check for a couple of other things, an HSG (where they check your tubes are working by pushing dye into your cervix) and an ultrasound of my uterus. Hope this helps! XXX


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## deafgal01

Well, appt went fine. Dr went over all the data with us and was quite frank with us. He said honestly, my known donor would never have been accepted as donor by a sperm bank. His sample would have been no problem for IVF but we are doing IUI and not IVF so that makes it harder. But he did give us a lot of options to think about and said he would be happy to do whatever we want. Whether that be starting me on meds next cycle and increasing the number of targets/eggs released or combining the last two vials to increasing the number of swimmers.

In the meanwhile, my known donor can always go see a male fertility specialist/urologist to see if he can improve his count/motility prior to next "donation samples".

Hubby and I discussed everything at appt and decided the plan of action will be this... We'll have me do the injections of hcg (starting day 4 of my cycle)- dr's suggestion this one... Then when they're satisfied with my eggs, we'll do IUI but combine the two vials so that we have more swimmers going to the targets. Risks that are involved- I could have cycle cancelled due to too many eggs, but that's the reason they start me on lowest dosage and will monitor me throughout (and adjust dosage as needed).

So basically going all out, more aggressive next cycle. If it doesn't work, we'll either look for new donors from the bank to use (instead of known donor) or we'll see if our known donor will take something and increase his sample before he donates more.


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## rdleela

Natalie, I am sooo glad you waited to have this appointment with the doc! I bet you feel a ton better; sounds like you have a great doctor - honesty is so important in this game! I love your plan and I'm excited for you to give this a try! Best of luck and of course I'll be cheering you on!


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## deafgal01

It surprised me how cheap it was... Funny what I think is cheap now haha... $110. I was expecting to pay $190 like I had to back in June. But yes I feel better now having a game plan and knowing the best course of action he recommended. He said he wouldn't give someone like me clomid or fermura since I ovulate just fine on my own. Just need to get my body to release 2 to 3 eggs.


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## tulip11

Rainbow123 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi we got an appointment letter with gynaecologist in December after done all the tests with urologist just left with genetic test we are waiting for its appointment letter anyhow what most likely gynaecologist ill do means what would be their further steps those who are far ahead of me in this phase might know waiting for their reply. Thanks and all the best to all the gorgeous ladies out there.
> 
> That's great that you have your gynaecologist appointment through Tulip! I had all my tests done before we had genetic testing etc for my husband, so kind of the opposite way round to you! They like to arrange for you to have tests, so you probably won't have to have much done in your actual appointment (I did have to have a vaginal swab done to test for something or other, but can't remember what that was as it was so long ago now!). The tests I had to arrange to have done were a day 3 blood test, some blood tests to check for a couple of other things, an HSG (where they check your tubes are working by pushing dye into your cervix) and an ultrasound of my uterus. Hope this helps! XXXClick to expand...

Dear this gynaecologist appointment is for my hubby. I have done with all of my tests already and they are clear. btw thanks alot for your reply :hugs::hugs:


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## Rainbow123

tulip11 said:


> Dear this gynaecologist appointment is for my hubby. I have done with all of my tests already and they are clear. btw thanks alot for your reply :hugs::hugs:

Oops! I thought you meant it was for you! I didn't realise men went to gynaecologists.
X


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## tulip11

Rainbow123 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Dear this gynaecologist appointment is for my hubby. I have done with all of my tests already and they are clear. btw thanks alot for your reply :hugs::hugs:
> 
> Oops! I thought you meant it was for you! I didn't realise men went to gynaecologists.
> XClick to expand...

its ok hun... I even thought this as well but on appointment letter its mentioned Gynaecologist.


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## silverbell

So sad to see this thread still so active. Sad for obvious reasons but happy of course that this is a place where people affected by azoospermia can chat. I'm so sorry to see so many new faces :hugs:

deafgal - I'm glad there's a good plan of action for next time and it definitely sounds like a good plan to me. Fingers crossed this one does the trick.

AFM I'm just waiting for my lining to build up and for our egg donor's eggs to be ready for collecting. I'm getting excited for the first time in a long time because this time there's a mugh higher chance that something may actually happen because for the first time ever there will be nothing wrong with either the sperm or the eggs being used :haha: EC for our egg donor should be the week after next and then it's ET for me.

--

Oh yeah and the crying is totally normal. I wish I could say it improves but I've not personally found it has and I still have difficulty accepting what has happened to us. I have my 'it's not fair, why us?' moments every now and again. I've taken to avoiding children and discussions of children as much as possible. My poor friends with children are 'hidden' on Facebook and I don't look at children when I'm out and about. It's just too hurtful and upsetting. It's only natural I think. It's just a constant reminder of what you could have and which so many people have with barely any thought, but which is being denied you by no fault of your own.


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## arzoo

Another question ....as I mentioned earlier DH is taking tamoxifen for last 4 months now. When we went to see the specialist (couple of weeks back) he asked us if we noticed any change in size to the testis, sadly none. He said some people experience a change , as in feels bigger, but that is not the case for DH. I am just worried and anxious that maybe no sperms are being produced. I know these are negative thoughts and not worth thinking about , but just thought of sharing it here rather than holding it in and upsetting myself.


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## arzoo

Deafgal: Sorry to hear that your DS is facing issues. Hope these get resolved.

Glad you have a well thought plan ahead. Good luck


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## arzoo

Hope everyone had a good weekend, I had a very interesting weekend, We had been the the fertility show at Kensington Olympia , we attended some seminars there which were very useful. I will try and share what we leant. Some or all of these might be already known to you ladies, but I just thought of sharing it for people like me who are still in discovery mode! Sorry this is a going to be a long post.

Rainbow this one is for you: There was a session on NHS funding and the difficulty of accessing treatment on the NHS. The presenter said that there were no rules regarding synchronised cycles and it was up to the hospital to decide whether to do synchronised or not for a couple . So if you are lucky then your hospital may be offering synchronised cycles. Have you heard back from the nurse? 

The fact that some NHS does not offer synchronised though seemed very surprising to me in the beginning, but when we spoke to some of the private clinics who had put up their stalls, I was surprised to hear that some of them also do not offer synchronised SSR and egg retrival. this was mostly because SSR needs a proper operation theatre facility which most of the fertility clinics do not offer which means the SSR has to be done else where and hence the sperm has to be frozen .

I also spoke to a number of specialist in the field about using fresh vs frozen and the clear verdict is that fresh is better than frozen. it may not matter so much in the case of men with normal sperm production but for SSR sperms given that the quality and quantity is low, it is always better to use fresh.

Another interesting session was on the impact of nutrition on sperm production. I dont have the notes on me now, I will update later on specific food. But the key point was , try and use organic product, wash fruit and veg before eating, microwave cooking is fine as long as you are cooking in Pyrex and not plastic. Improve your diet have a lot of antioxidants. Alcohol in moderation was fine. Binge drinking even once a month is a no no so is smoking. both have adverse impact on sperm production

We also attended a session on donor conception and using a sperm bank. Mentally I am not there yet, and I had to really fight to hold back my tears but in the end when we went to speak to the speaker afterwards who herself had chosen the donor sperm and when she spoke about her experience I just could not hold back. It was very embarrassing. We have not yet made up our mind about donor. I am dreading it and want to wait till the SSR outcome to start thinking about it. But given that this was a one off event I gathered the courage to attend it. In both the sessions the presenters were keen on being open about using donor with the kids from a very young age, this is something I struggle with. If we ever have to go down that route, then I want it to be our little secret and never have to tell that to anyone. The session was useful to warn us about the issues we could face if we dint share this with the child. During the question and answer session one lady who was considering donor egg shared her fear that she fears she might not feel attached to the baby given that the baby was not genetically hers. The presenter said that even in normal conception where the child is genetically yours , there are instances where people dont feel attached to their kids. and suggested that we should try and look at the parallels that are there in non donor conceptions to find answers to some of our doubts and fears. Another interesting point was the presenter shared was, given that she used donor sperms she was worried that if she had a boy the boy might end up looking like the donor and was keen to have a girl. Her first child is a girl and then she had a boy (both using the same donor), she shared their photos and I was really surprised by how much the boy looked like the mother rather than the girl . Thus highlighting that we cannot predict what nature has in store for us.

Another key learning I had was when we go to private hospital for IVF make sure you have a written confirmation about all the costs, Also ask for specific and details about the cost, make sure to ask them to separate the cost of medicines. and treatment. And try and shop around for the medicines as in 9 out of the 10 cases you will find the medicine cheaper elsewhere (internet or local pharmacy)

Though the session were very informative and in some way made me feel that I was not the only one going through this difficult time, specially when we sat in the seminars and looked around, it is still difficult to accept. It must have been my troubled mind which made me dream that we had twins and in my dream I saw DH playing with a very cute baby and then I woke up and felt really miserable, still continue to feel that way. I just want the day to pass.


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## Rainbow123

Wow Arzoo! That was really useful to read, thank you so much for sharing. That is very interesting about the NHS/synchronised cycles. I will have to do some investigating to find out where the IVF and mTESE would be taking place as I suppose this will give us our answers. We still haven't been phoned back by the nurse, but to be honest I have decided I would rather speak to the doctor doing the procedure. I'm still not pleased that she has said she would call us and then hasn't, so I will probably let our FS know about this and leave it at that. It just doesn't fill you with confidence does it? Oh well.
I'm glad you were able to go to the donor seminar. It is such a lot to get your head around and even though I feel so much further ahead with it than before, I do still struggle to accept it. But at the end of the day, if it's an ultimatum of donor or no baby, it's quite an easy answer for me. It's great that you could hear some experiences of people who have chosen that path and have their babies, I suppose it's reassuring to know that people who would have been in similar situations have their little families and are happy.
Thanks again!
XXXXX


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## Rainbow123

Hello lovely ladies!
Can anyone tell me how to add a link to my journal to my signature please? I've just started one which is over at https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/ttc-journals/2056807-gold-end-rainbow.html#post30348219 but would quite like a simple little 'click here' option or something to make it easier to get to!
Thank you!
XXXXXX


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## tulip11

Hi 

As I have mentioned earlier that Dr put my husband on clomid 25mg for 3 months and this is his second month and as Dr told us that you should try don't stop and we tried this month now I am on cd 34 and my cycle is most of the time 29 and 30 days sometime 31 days now I am few days late don't know what's going on? Sometimes hope clicks my mind then again think no no its not possible. What you guys says what may be the possibilities?


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## arzoo

Fingers crossed for your tulip.


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## tulip11

girls I was right I am not that lucky to get pregnant... Af caught me this morning... I cried alot and then got a call from my friend that she got pregnant after 3 years after which she asked me why dont you have kids ? oh that made me so sad after which I didnt come out of room and feeling like the end of this world to me...


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## tulip11

I have question those of you who finally conceived how much time did the whole journey take ? means after got the news of azoospermia then its treatment untill good news .


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## melissaelaine

Hi everyone. :wave:

I don't know for sure that we are dealing with azoospermia, but best case scenario, we are dealing with seriously low sperm counts. My husband's first test showed some sperm in his sample, albeit a small amount (.10 mil concentrated, .39 mill total). But, we just got his second set back and it showed 0. (Well, there were 14 non-motile detected in the entire sample, but the concentration was zero.) He had made some health changes since the first sample, so we were convinced the results would be better. This news really shocked us.

Has anyone had similar results - some sperm, then none??


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## deafgal01

Tulip- I am in same boat as you. I've known about the azoospermia diagnosis for about 2 years now (it will have been 2 years by Jan). So from the time of finding out, all the tests, and counseling, and now trying IUI treatments to get me pregnant, I am still waiting for my first bfp. I hope next cycle is the lucky one (IUI #2). I know some of the ladies on here took a while- especially the one who started this thread- she was the last of her original group in this thread to finally have a baby.

Melissa- can't relate with you there. Sorry if I'm not much help.


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## tulip11

deafgal01 said:


> Tulip- I am in same boat as you. I've known about the azoospermia diagnosis for about 2 years now (it will have been 2 years by Jan). So from the time of finding out, all the tests, and counseling, and now trying IUI treatments to get me pregnant, I am still waiting for my first bfp. I hope next cycle is the lucky one (IUI #2). I know some of the ladies on here took a while- especially the one who started this thread- she was the last of her original group in this thread to finally have a baby.
> 
> Melissa- can't relate with you there. Sorry if I'm not much help.

My prayers are with you. May the next cycle brings a super duper BFP for you. All the best dear don't worry everything ill be allright :hugs:


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## AuCa

melissaelaine said:


> Hi everyone. :wave:
> 
> I don't know for sure that we are dealing with azoospermia, but best case scenario, we are dealing with seriously low sperm counts. My husband's first test showed some sperm in his sample, albeit a small amount (.10 mil concentrated, .39 mill total). But, we just got his second set back and it showed 0. (Well, there were 14 non-motile detected in the entire sample, but the concentration was zero.) He had made some health changes since the first sample, so we were convinced the results would be better. This news really shocked us.
> 
> Has anyone had similar results - some sperm, then none??

When you say "the entire sample" - did they spin everything down and really look at everything? Just asking because we've had this confusion with our semen lab where we constantly got results saying "<0.001 sperm conc"; 2 sperm seen in wet prep". After months of us thinking that DH has a total sperm count of 2 (or 1 or 5; that was the variation we had) we realized that in this "wet prep" they only looked at one drop of the sample. When they spin it down he has a concentration of a few hundred. Which of course is not awesome, but better than 2.

So, I do have a lot of experience with having a seriously low sperm count (like I said below 500); but this has been fairly consistent. Have you guys seen the urologist?


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## melissaelaine

Thank you so much for the fast response! I do not know whether it is the wet sample or if they are spinning it. I was reading about this last night, and it is a question I will ask. I am starting to think that it might just be a wet test, because the notes from the test said "14 on the entire slide."

We have not yet seen a urologist. In the past, my RE hasn't been concerned with Daniel's results, given that he has had some sperm. There is a urologist in the practice, and of course there are others we could see. I think we should see one to rule out certain issues. But, my DH was born with an undescended testicle, so the doctor has always attributed his issues to that.


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## AuCa

melissaelaine said:


> Thank you so much for the fast response! I do not know whether it is the wet sample or if they are spinning it. I was reading about this last night, and it is a question I will ask. I am starting to think that it might just be a wet test, because the notes from the test said "14 on the entire slide."
> 
> We have not yet seen a urologist. In the past, my RE hasn't been concerned with Daniel's results, given that he has had some sperm. There is a urologist in the practice, and of course there are others we could see. I think we should see one to rule out certain issues. But, my DH was born with an undescended testicle, so the doctor has always attributed his issues to that.

Yes, definitely ask them. If it says "wet sample" it most likely is what I was talking about - they put one drop onto a slide and then count.
I calculated this out - a drop is typically 100ul. If you know your total volume you can calculate what concentration the entire sample would be - eg if it's 2ml you can take your 14x200. This would be 2800 sperm total. And this would be way more than enough for an IVF-ICSI cycle. Like I said, we did IVF-ICSI with about 300 sperm and they found enough food ones.


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## Mercury1

Melissaelaine - we had something similar. A few years ago DH had a sample which was less than 0.5 million, due to undescended testicles which were operated on when he was about 11. After we met, he went for another sample which was zero. Over the next year there were occasional sperm seen, but still mainly zero samples. We went for the tamoxifen option, thinking that he'd need surgical sperm retrieval, but fortunately the tamoxifen did enough to avoid that.

It's great that he's had some seen, as it shows his body can produce them. I would suggest you make sure you keep having samples done and freeze anything found, it would be a nightmare to get to egg collection day and have no sperm! Definitely do all the lifestyle changes and get him taking supplements - while it may not increase numbers, it may well mean that any sperm that are there are in the best condition possible. 

Hope that helps. It's a long journey, but there are probably more options than there were a few years ago. Good luck!


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## arzoo

Sorry to hear about the AF tulip. Praying for the best for you. 

melissaelaine : Sorry I have no experience to share as in our case , there is zero sperm.


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## AuCa

arzoo said:


> Auca: Sorry I have no experience to share as in our case , there is zero sperm.

I think you meant melissa :winkwink:

Very sorry to hear about AF tulip :hugs::hugs:


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## sharon99

Rrrgh, my long post just got erased! AND I got a "timeout" reprimand from the website because I tried to post a link! What!

Arzoo, thank you so much for your field reporting from the fertility show (wow, I never would have dreamed a few years ago I'd be interested in that show!). Especially for the information from the donor panel, since that's the route we're likely going to take. Everything I've read seems to say it's better for the kid if you're open with them early and often, so they see it as no big deal. That's the way we're going to approach it if it works. Luckily we live in an area with a lot of same sex couples with donor conceived kids, so they'll see they're not alone. Do you listen to podcasts ever? I listen to them ALL THE TIME while I work, and there's a great one called Creating a Family (not going to post the link, that's where I got in trouble last time! :) ) But you can google it. They have lots of shows on donor conception, IVF, etc. 

Tulip, sorry about AF. It hurts every time. We found out only 3 months ago- seems like forever. DH's testing went pretty quickly, and we ruled out ICSI in our case pretty quickly- so we'll likely start donor IUIs soon.

Melissa- sorry, we've always had 0. "We"- ha ha!

Deafgal- fingers crossed for your next IUI!!


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## Hopeful 1

Arzoo, sounds like the show was really interesting we were down in London a few weeks before the show if it had been when we were down I would have been interested to go so thank you for sharing that info with us. 

Mellissa we have had similar results first sample showed nothing at all then second showed 2 immotile sperm in sample then the third which they spun showed about 22 which we thought was excellent we felt like we had struck gold for most people this sounds mad but for azoospermia we were delighted felt like we had been given a chance of things working. Unfortunately the next sample didn't have anything and nothing was found during the ssr. :nope: I would querie with your clinic if it was spun and if not get your hubby to produce again with them spinning it this time! Although sounds like they have found some so don't loose all hope.


Tulip sorry af can be really cruel that's sad so for that even though your friend took 3 years and I'm sure your really happy for her but that was insensitive to ask you given that it's taken her 3 years you would think even if she doesn't know your situation she would be a bit more sensitive given her own challenges - it's interesting in our situation I feel that people have stopped making comments and asking us I'm thinking that deep down people suspect that something isn't right and don't want to ask anymore (we have been together 11 years in January) 
We found out 14 months a go now and even though we expect 0 in samples now it's hard to take and I feel really sad everyone we get the result!! What are your plans?

Deafgal have you decided what your plans are?

Hi to everyone else 
Hopeful x x


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## deafgal01

Yes Hopeful- we decided we will take a chance and see what happens. Not expecting it to work though. I am waiting for cd1 so I can call the office. They will then schedule me for a baseline ultrasound before I start the hcg injection for about 4 days I think. They will do a follow up ultrasound to monitor my eggs to make sure I won't release too many. If there is more than 3, they will cancel cycle. But if it still a go, we will have them combine the remaining 2 vials for the IUI. Then I wait, 1 week for blood test to confirm ovulation and 2 for a take home preg test.


----------



## arzoo

Hope everyone is doing well. Sharon , you are right, a few months back, I would not have even dreamt about having to attend such a session. Thank you will look up for the pod casts.

@Rainbow: How are things progressing for you? 

I just thought of posting an update on my last visit to the fertility centre. Was a little disappointed that I was made to see a different doctor from the one I was booked into see. When I made the appointment , I had specifically asked to see the same doctor. The next immediate appointment was few weeks time but I asked to see this specific doctor and so had a longer wait, another month approximately. But what the guy did not tell me was, that I was supposed to specifically mention it when I came for the appointment, this I got to know later when I went to make the next appointment and also express my displeasure at being made to see another doctor. For those like me who are new to NHS treatment, the way it works is , there are clinics and you can see any doctor , but you must specifically ask for a doctor when you check in, if you want to see them on the clinic days . Otherwise there are other days when you can make specific appointments to see a particular doctor. Not sure if I am explaining things well. 

The other reason for my disappointment was, I am asked to go for more tests. My HSG was done in September , I waited till first week of November, to be told that I need further tests as the HSG was not confirmatory and so need a 3D scan, this they could have easily done by giving me a call, Thus reducing my waiting time and giving my appointment to some other more needy person and saving some money for NHS. For my bad luck, the 3d scan probe is under repair and so I have to wait another 3 weeks before I can get an appointment. So annoying. If things were more efficient I could have easily done my scan at least a month earlier! sigh! Another few weeks before I go for the scan and then appointment is now in January to discuss the results.

So not looking forward to Xmas when you have to meet all the family and go through the same questions from the nosy aunts and cousins about what our plans about kids! Sorry it it is always dull and gloomy posts from me!


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## gem10

Hello ladies, 

It's been a while since I've been on. Just catching up on everyone's posts. So, as we know, it is tough to find friends to talk to about our situation. I had one friend who I could always talk to. She is sarcastic and funny, and listens to me moan and groan about my pregnant friends. Her and her guy have been going through a tough time. She went off bc a month ago as they were considering trying, but was just telling me she was going to go back on bc she wasn't sure it was the best idea. Well, I called her two weeks ago and low and behold, she's pregnant. I was very, very happy for her on the phone and excited. She said, "you're not gonna get all weird and depressed now are you?" Which of course I replied, no of course not! I then hung up the phone and started crying. I went downstairs to tell my husband and he was annoyed with me. He said, "We need to be happy for our friends and support them, not be jealous!" I just don't understand how NO ONE GETS IT!!! I'm not jealous, it just hurts. I felt like, now, I am truly the last and only one who is not pregnant. It's like everyone is part of this club, and I can't join. I told him, now I am truly alone. I have no one to talk to. He said, well you have me. But he doesn't get it when I get upset!So hoe can I talk to him?? I just don't understand how it doesn't upset him the way it does me. Perhaps because he has had his whole life to deal with this issue and make peace with it. But I truly feel so alone. The only safe place is here. I sometimes wish I could meet up with you ladies on a Friday night and go out and talk and enjoy ourselves, among people who actually get it!!!!

On another, frustrating note, I am now on cd38. I had my FET late September, found on October 3 it was a BFN, got AF after taking progesterone, and am now nine days late. I am guessing this may be normal due to all of the hormones I was on, but what a mind tease. I'm sure I'm not pregnant, that would be impossible, but just wishing she would show so I can go to my Dr and begin preparing for our next IVF cycle.

Just feeling sad, lonely and frustrated. I wish I could be like my friends, have sex, and poof! Pregnant. It just seems like such a long never ending road that I am struggling to see the end of. Sorry for the sad post. Keeping everyone in my prayers.


----------



## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Hello ladies,
> 
> It's been a while since I've been on. Just catching up on everyone's posts. So, as we know, it is tough to find friends to talk to about our situation. I had one friend who I could always talk to. She is sarcastic and funny, and listens to me moan and groan about my pregnant friends. Her and her guy have been going through a tough time. She went off bc a month ago as they were considering trying, but was just telling me she was going to go back on bc she wasn't sure it was the best idea. Well, I called her two weeks ago and low and behold, she's pregnant. I was very, very happy for her on the phone and excited. She said, "you're not gonna get all weird and depressed now are you?" Which of course I replied, no of course not! I then hung up the phone and started crying. I went downstairs to tell my husband and he was annoyed with me. He said, "We need to be happy for our friends and support them, not be jealous!" I just don't understand how NO ONE GETS IT!!! I'm not jealous, it just hurts. I felt like, now, I am truly the last and only one who is not pregnant. It's like everyone is part of this club, and I can't join. I told him, now I am truly alone. I have no one to talk to. He said, well you have me. But he doesn't get it when I get upset!So hoe can I talk to him?? I just don't understand how it doesn't upset him the way it does me. Perhaps because he has had his whole life to deal with this issue and make peace with it. But I truly feel so alone. The only safe place is here. I sometimes wish I could meet up with you ladies on a Friday night and go out and talk and enjoy ourselves, among people who actually get it!!!!
> 
> On another, frustrating note, I am now on cd38. I had my FET late September, found on October 3 it was a BFN, got AF after taking progesterone, and am now nine days late. I am guessing this may be normal due to all of the hormones I was on, but what a mind tease. I'm sure I'm not pregnant, that would be impossible, but just wishing she would show so I can go to my Dr and begin preparing for our next IVF cycle.
> 
> Just feeling sad, lonely and frustrated. I wish I could be like my friends, have sex, and poof! Pregnant. It just seems like such a long never ending road that I am struggling to see the end of. Sorry for the sad post. Keeping everyone in my prayers.

I totally understand gem. If I see one more person write on FB that they are thankful for motherhood I may completely lose it. I wish we could all sit down and have drinks and then discuss our woes together where we are comfortable and don't feel judged OR pitied. Some days the sadness that I feel doesn't go away. Heck, I cried a little bit this morning. It's getting harder to cope. As every one of my friends gets "accidentally" pregnant I flinch. I also feel alone. DH doesn't understand the sadness and tries to make me feel better but the things he says just hurts more sometimes. SIGH. I am very thankful for you ladies. I don't know where I would be if it weren't for the support of each of you. gem if you need to talk more feel free to pm me. I try to get on here every day and catch up on all the posts that I miss. :hugs:


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## deafgal01

Gem and Mik- that is exactly how I feel and I have started withdrawing more into myself the longer this journey takes which is kind of bad because when you hold in all the emotions, I basically become a ticking bomb. My heart goes out to you all who feel hurt just simply by being left behind by you real life friends. :hugs:


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## sharon99

Gem, Mikihob, Deafgal- I can really relate to how you're all feeling. I'd never joined a forum before, but it is so nice to have someplace where everyone can relate to these emotions. I know I'm new here, but the idea of Friday night drinks sounds SO nice I can barely stand it!! Gem, my husband is the same way- it's like he can't understand that one can feel 2 different emotions at the same time. Just because you're sad for yourself doesn't mean you're not happy for your friend. It sounds like you handled it like a champ by being happy and excited for her on the phone- I probably would have started crying right then & there!!


----------



## gem10

Thank you so much ladies. At least I know Im not crazy, nor am I alone thanks to all of you.


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## Rainbow123

Arzoo - how frustrating! It really makes me cross how some people can't do their flipping jobs properly!
We didn't get a call back from that flipping nurse, now approaching 3 weeks when she said she'd ring the next day! I have decided that I really cannot be bothered chasing it up, it's a waste of time. However, I have decided that I am going to phone our FS's secretary on Thursday and book in to see her at the beginning of January, as this is when she will be back at work. Then we can go from there. 

Gem - I completely understand how you are feeling. My colleague at work got pregnant first try, found out the other day IT'S TWINS! I got the text from her on a Sunday night, cried/sobbed uncontrollably for half an hour. When I saw her in work I congratulated her very convincingly, then the next day ended up falling to pieces at work! So embarrassing! But luckily I have a good friend at work going through similar crap who came to my rescue!

I wish too that we could all meet up! It would be so good. Sending everyone so many hugs XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## snd80

Hi girls! Sorry I have once again been awol, but so much going on in my world that I won't even get into it all! Just wanted to pop in and let everyone know that I've still been following along silently from the sidelines and thinking of each of you. :hugs:

Quick update for me.... my IVF is set for Jan! :happydance: I begin BC today and continue for 2 months, start shots Jan 10 and egg retrieval will be Jan 20!!! After being in limbo for over a year, it's all happening SO fast now!!!! I was really hoping for Dec IVF, but they were booked, so I'll take what I can get!!! I have to admit, I'm both excited and scared shitless at the same time!!! Quitting smoking has packed on some extra pounds, but at least I have 2 months to work on that... what hurts me the most is ER day is set on a day my hubby will be in dialysis, but I'd rather him be there with me on transfer day than ER day, so I just gotta deal with that. Other than that, YAY! :cloud9:

Hope everyone is well and I promise to be more attenave to my girls from now on! My boss had been real sick and passed away last week and I'm pretty much solo at work lately, :nope: but things will be back to normal soon...

:hugs: and lots o' love to all!!!


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## MrsG30

Hi Ladies,

ive been catching up, im so sad to see so many of you feeling as sad as me, i feel its the whole "another xmas not pregnant or with a baby" when will it be our turn?!?!!?!?
We got back to clinic 4th Dec and our donor is all done now, providing his lat sample on 19/12. In the new year treatment will start.

Im very down about it all, its just not far, but ill not give up and i hope non of you do either. it nice to see all the azoo girls from way back with babies now, i know they had a struggle but they got there 1 way or the other so, so will we. 

Whos up to where? whos waiting for what?

Lots of love to all xxx


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## deafgal01

I started a new cycle- more aggressive this time- 2 ultrasounds because of putting me on hcg injections and we will combine 2 vials for iui. So currently scheduled for baseline us tomorrow. I predict iui will be at end of month.


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## Mikihob

Hubby and I have been trying to do a 401K withdrawal. So I got email after email from the clinic with cost sheets for IVF and FET (just in case) and the generic fertility treatment letter from insurance and sent it all in. Spoke to them on the phone and they won't accept ANY of it. The insurance is sticking with their argument that, that's their only form. I sent an email to the clinic today to see if they can print a pre-bill bill that states our names as the patients and has each procedure broken down. Also asked if they could contact insurance or include that insurance will cover zero and all is patients responsibility. 

I didn't even make it through the phone call without sobbing. I kept having to mute the phone because I couldn't stop it. Afterwards, I cried and cried and cried. My head was hurting and my eyes were hurting so bad I fell asleep for 20 minutes to try and help. It didn't. 

I cried this morning too because the thought of having our money so close just to have it taken away is heartbreaking. Without this money, we are hosed. We can't move forward. Its getting harder to wake up each day and keep from losing it. I am so sad. :cry:

Sorry for a long winded, vent post. I have had a rough couple of days. 
Thanks for always listening ladies. :hugs:


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## deafgal01

Oh mik :hugs: so frustrating! :hugs:


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## sharon99

Mikihob, I'm sorry you're feeling so down, AND have to worry about money on top of everything else. This diagnosis is such a perfect storm of stressful situations! MrsG, sorry you're feeling down too. I hadn't really thought about Christmas time yet- yeah, I imagine that will be hard. At least your treatment will start in the New Year, and there's a good chance next year WILL be the year you have your baby!

We had our mandated appointment with a therapist on Tuesday. It was pretty good- I only cried a little at the beginning. :) She didn't say anything I hadn't really heard already- she finds it best to tell the child, from the age of 2 or so, etc. The one issue DH and I hadn't really talked about, and perhaps still aren't on agreement on, is the issue of anonymous vs. "open ID" donor. I've heard it's better for a child's well-being to have the option to contact the donor when they turn 21. DH felt, I think, initially threatened by this (so did I, the first time I thought about it. And, honestly, still do find it a little threatening). Are the rest of you using DS going anonymous or open ID? Deafgal, you're using a known donor, right- are you going to have meetings or anything with the donor and your child? 

Right after that, I got the last of my bloodwork done (happy Tuesday!), and so we'll be ready to start next cycle, which will be less than a month from now. It seems so scary/weird that we could actually start in less than a month!

Feeling a little better about the whole thing. I told my parents about the situation last week (they knew we'd been struggling, but didn't know the details). I was worried about their reaction to donor sperm, because a lot of our family has been built through adoption and I still feel some guilt about not adopting. They were totally supportive, though, and said all the right things. I know it's no one's decision but our own, but I still feel better.

Thanks for letting me unload here! It's like my online diary, with supporters! :)


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## deafgal01

sharon99 said:


> We had our mandated appointment with a therapist on Tuesday. It was pretty good- I only cried a little at the beginning. :) She didn't say anything I hadn't really heard already- she finds it best to tell the child, from the age of 2 or so, etc. The one issue DH and I hadn't really talked about, and perhaps still aren't on agreement on, is the issue of anonymous vs. "open ID" donor. I've heard it's better for a child's well-being to have the option to contact the donor when they turn 21. DH felt, I think, initially threatened by this (so did I, the first time I thought about it. And, honestly, still do find it a little threatening). Are the rest of you using DS going anonymous or open ID? Deafgal, you're using a known donor, right- are you going to have meetings or anything with the donor and your child?
> 
> Right after that, I got the last of my bloodwork done (happy Tuesday!), and so we'll be ready to start next cycle, which will be less than a month from now. It seems so scary/weird that we could actually start in less than a month!
> 
> 
> Thanks for letting me unload here! It's like my online diary, with supporters! :)

Yes that is correct, still using known donor for this cycle. I have not planned too far ahead in case we do switch to donor bank but if this one pans out and we have a baby with his swimmers, I will definitely make a point for our baby to know this donor as a distant relative, an uncle maybe. This way we have an easy transition when the child comes of age and can understand enough about the biology of the body and won't feel in the dark about his donor since we already have regular contact with him, by we I mean me. I contact him maybe on a weekly basis, just once a week to check in on what's up with him and so forth. So yes, we will be in touch, but I am not sure about visits, currently I only see him once a year if at all so no idea if that is something we will see change or not after having a baby, I am not opposed to the idea of letting them visit with each other since he lives out of state so it is not like he would be coming every weekend to visit ya know? And my dh would be seen as the father anyways in this situation having been with me every step of the way from IUI to birth of baby and post pregnancy with raising the baby. You can tell I have put much thought into this and discussion with my dh over this matter.

Good luck to you on your upcoming cycle!


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## gem10

So its cd41 and still no period. I went to my doctor today because they were concerned that I might have cyst. Well, there were no cysts, but she said my lining was really thick. So they did a BETA and they will call me with the results tomorrow. I know there is zero chance that its going to be positive, but no matter how hard I try I cant get rid of that little part of me thats wishing it were positive. So if it doesnt show they are putting me on provera to start my period. Great, more drugs! Then when I get it starting bc to prepare for our next IVF round. I just wish she would show so I can stop feeling like this, hopeful but hopeless. Oh what it must be like to have a late period and ACTUALLY be pregnant. :(


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## tigerlily1975

Mercury1 said:


> Melissaelaine - we had something similar. A few years ago DH had a sample which was less than 0.5 million, due to undescended testicles which were operated on when he was about 11. After we met, he went for another sample which was zero. Over the next year there were occasional sperm seen, but still mainly zero samples. We went for the tamoxifen option, thinking that he'd need surgical sperm retrieval, but fortunately the tamoxifen did enough to avoid that.
> 
> It's great that he's had some seen, as it shows his body can produce them. I would suggest you make sure you keep having samples done and freeze anything found, it would be a nightmare to get to egg collection day and have no sperm! Definitely do all the lifestyle changes and get him taking supplements - while it may not increase numbers, it may well mean that any sperm that are there are in the best condition possible.
> 
> Hope that helps. It's a long journey, but there are probably more options than there were a few years ago. Good luck!

Wow, Mercury! I didn't realise you're due in a matter of days :happydance: 

How are you doing?! 

:hugs:

C xx


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## tigerlily1975

snd80 said:


> Hi girls! Sorry I have once again been awol, but so much going on in my world that I won't even get into it all! Just wanted to pop in and let everyone know that I've still been following along silently from the sidelines and thinking of each of you. :hugs:
> 
> Quick update for me.... my IVF is set for Jan! :happydance: I begin BC today and continue for 2 months, start shots Jan 10 and egg retrieval will be Jan 20!!! After being in limbo for over a year, it's all happening SO fast now!!!! I was really hoping for Dec IVF, but they were booked, so I'll take what I can get!!! I have to admit, I'm both excited and scared shitless at the same time!!! Quitting smoking has packed on some extra pounds, but at least I have 2 months to work on that... what hurts me the most is ER day is set on a day my hubby will be in dialysis, but I'd rather him be there with me on transfer day than ER day, so I just gotta deal with that. Other than that, YAY! :cloud9:
> 
> Hope everyone is well and I promise to be more attenave to my girls from now on! My boss had been real sick and passed away last week and I'm pretty much solo at work lately, :nope: but things will be back to normal soon...
> 
> :hugs: and lots o' love to all!!!


That's fantastic news, SND!! :happydance: Shall be keeping everything crossed for you in Jan!! 

:hi: to everyone! 

I send you all love and many :hugs: and hope you all find the strength to get through this. At times, it feels like you're in the deepest, darkest hole with no escape, but somehow, you will find a way to get through it and get what you all deserve :hugs:

C xx


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## alliejc77

Hey girls

I kinda dropped out for a while so I'm jumping back in if you'll have me. In the past month, I've found out that I have a cyst on one of my ovaries and my prolactin levels are higher than normal. I've done a repeat test in case it was a blip, if they are still high I will have an MRI to see if my pituitary gland is enlarged. I go back in January so hopefully it's good news. 

Hubby and myself have both felt rubbish today. Hubby usually copes much better than me but every now and again he will have hard days, whereas if I'm honest I'm like that every day! He visited his mum and was talking about our new niece and the usual conversation followed on from that about how we were getting on etc. Anyway, the subject of "telling" or not came up and this is something that hubby and I have discussed and we feel that we want the child to know. I totally respect anyone who feels it isn't right for them but it feels right for us. So his mum didn't agree. I don't mind that too much, I didn't know how I felt about it till I read about the subject. It's not something you really think about till you have to! I just wondered if there were any UK members that are planning on telling who would like to chat to me via pm or on here just to bounce feelings off really. It's really hit home that there's so much more to deal with than just actually managing to have a baby in the first place. :wacko:

Anyway, enough of my waffling. I will try to catch up to you all and in the meantime I hope things are going as well as possibly for all of you. 

Allie x


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## gem10

Just got the call, bfn. Starting meds this weekend for af. Snd80, we will be cycli.g at the same time!!.I start shots in January and retrieval will be the week of January 20th also! It will be nice to have a partner through all of this!


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## arzoo

Hello Girls, sorry I have been MIA for last few days, Computer at home was down and cannot really log into this page at work ;)

Goodluck Deafgal.

Really sorry to hear about the issue with the draw down , hope it sorts out. Not sure how it works there for you. In the UK our insurance does not cover fertility treatment. I had a tough time getting an approval for a scan for a non related issue but they were very suspicious that it was all linked. 

Gem, when I read your post, I could not agree more, it was almost as though you put my thoughts into words. I feel miserable even when i see random pregnant people. if all this was not enough, facebook. I have decided to not log into facebook from now on, pages and pages of happy mom's and cute baby photos. Looks like all my busy friends who are usually inactive on FB , are attacking with vengeance when they are on their maternity leave.

The update from me is , I need to wait for the 3d scan to confirm the polyp and issue with the tube, they suspect the issue with the tube is hydrosalpinx and the specialist said, I need to get my tube closed off, if that is the case. Another hurdle to cross. Also urologist on leave etc ... so dont think we are going to be able to start our cycle before March :( upset about it. But guess that is how it was supposed to be.


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## alliejc77

Hi

Just a quick update from me. Just got a letter saying that my repeat blood tests for the prolactin showed that it was normal this time round so one less thing to worry about! 

Allie


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## Mikihob

My 20 year old step-daughter has two girlfriends that are both 5-6 weeks pregnant. WHAT? One of them already has a 4 year old (got pregnant when she was 16) and is in a bad relationship. They fight all the time and in Sept/Oct they were split up because they fought so bad. All the while, trying to get pregnant. Success!! The other one, is engaged to her high school sweetheart and they haven't set a date yet because they fight. One of them even moved out and packed to leave the state. But they tried and Success!! 

:cry: If I wasn't already heartbroken and sad enough. Why?? Why does everyone else it seems get pregnant when we can't?? Now to try to stop the tears. My hubby is going to come home to a crying, sad wife and it will ruin his night. I just can't take it. Some days I don't know how to keep going. 

Sorry for another long ranty post.


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## deafgal01

Let it out. It is hard!


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## sharon99

Allie, like you I think it's a totally personal decision whether to tell or not tell, and I would never judge anyone who decided not to tell. It must be really hard that your mother in law does not agree with what you've decided, but in the end it is your decision. I've never been a parent before, but I'm guessing having kids will be a long line of other people telling me how I "should" be raising my kids- but it's YOUR family and you should be able to raise your kids the way you feel is right. My 2 cents! I know I'm not in the UK but if you want to chat about it, I've given this decision a lot of thought too.

Mikihob, sorry you're feeling so down. It just isn't fair. 

I have been trying *not* to retreat into my shell recently, so I had drinks with a (younger) friend the other day that I hadn't seen in a while. I told her we were having difficulties (she is NOT someone I would tell the details to!)- and she proceeded to tell me about her amazing sex life with her new boyfriend ("I've been having timed intercourse for a year and a half!", I say in my brain), and how she was late for 2 days and was really worried she was pregnant. And I was like, oh yeah, THIS is why I don't go out! :)

We've started looking at donors, and THAT is really weird. I've been having dreams about it, and some trouble sleeping. Ovulation should happen in 2-3 weeks, so if we want to start this cycle we should pick someone soon. We have a few picked out, but... what if the donors are lying in the background information, what if they're secretly serial killers?! Yes, these are the thoughts that keep me up at night, yes, I know the fears are irrational, and yes, we have been watching a lot of Dexter recently! The whole thing is just... weird.


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## deafgal01

Sharon- that is my fear using sperm bank donors. What if they lied about something on the data? Hence why I chose to go with someone I know in real life.


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## arzoo

Deafgal I agree about the risks with using an unknown donor. 

But somehow I just cannot come to terms with having to bear the child of someone known. Not that unknown is easy but more acceptable as an option.


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## deafgal01

Arzoo- good point there. I guess it does really depend on individuals in this situation. What works for one might not for another so it is important we have all these options out there. Every option has its pros and cons.


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## tulip11

hi
My husband finally got an appointment for Chromosomal test on 27th November . I have got a question regarding this test what sort of results of this test ill show somewhere hope ? because Idk why is it necessary to be done ? does it hold any importance in all this treatment of azoospermia ?


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## Rainbow123

Tulip - if they find out that his azoospermia is due to a chromosome issue then I think they would be quite sure that a mTESE wouldn't be the path for you to take, as I THINK it would mean there would be even less chance of finding sperm. This is the impression our doctor gave us anyway. X


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## arzoo

Agree Deafgal, it depends on individual situations. I am very uncomfortable, almost to the extend of unthinkable, that I would never want the baby to know. I shared this with one the ladies who was hosting a talk on donor support network. I must say she was shocked and just could not understand my thinking. As you said ... depends on individuals, what your family and surrounding situations are. Guess there is never a right or wrong when it comes to these things.


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## arzoo

Tulip : To add on to what Rainbow has said, these Chromosome tests are important because in some cases, when sperm is found during mTese, there is an added risk of passing on some of these issues to your offsprings.

Also, regarding this Chromosome tests, what I learnt is that, they check only for known abnormalities. Unforntunately , not all chromosomal abnormalities have been identified. This means that post a test, there still may not be able to identify the cause.


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## sharon99

Arzoo, that's weird that a woman hosting a donor support network didn't understand your thinking! Telling, not telling- it is so personal and individual, and I think families handle it a million different ways. I would think you'd have to do what you determine is right and best for your family.

Yeah, I don't think I could use someone I know in real life, either! I seem to know waaaaay too many bad stories about DH's friends. :) We never seriously considered it. I think I'm most comfortable with somewhere in between- wanting to know some stuff, but not TOO much. One donor I was leaning towards, I looked at his adult pictures... and that was (almost) too much. He's normal enough looking, it's just weird to see him as an *actual* person. I'd almost rather just see baby photos of the donors.

I'm off to a weekend conference today, so that should be a nice distraction. Happy weekend, ladies!


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## alliejc77

Thanks for the input, it's made me feel better. I think we were just having an emotional day and usually DH is the strong one, always supporting me but when he has a down day, he won't always immediately tell me what it is he's thinking about which makes it harder - men eh?

I'm sure that his mum and anyone else will soon learn to deal with the fact that our child (if we are ever that lucky) will know we used a donor and then they will just accept it. It just felt like one more thing that his mum disapproved of with me... not the first and won't be the last. :winkwink:

xxx


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## arzoo

Thank you Sharon for your understanding, hope you had a good time at the conference.

Stay strong Allie.


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## arzoo

Hello Everyone. Just checking in to see how everyone is doing. Hope things are progressing well and the various follow ups happening as per schedule. Good luck gals :)


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## deafgal01

Arzoo- how are you doing?

I am doing good. Just had my second go at iui yesterday. So far relaxin and not thinking about it.


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## Rainbow123

Arzoo - Not much happening with me, apart from scheduling in to see my FS on the 10th January as I'm sick and tired of waiting for the IVF/mTESE doctors to get in touch with us. Hopefully my FS will be able to kick some butt! Hehe!
Hope all is good with you XXX


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## sharon99

Good luck, Deafgal! I've got my fingers crossed for you. 

I'm having a bit of an emotional night over here! I'm placing the order tomorrow for our DS, so I had to call the sperm bank & my doctor to settle details. It can't be delivered to the doctor's on Thursday because of Thanksgiving, etc... a lot of little stresses that have added up to me losing it while making dinner! Last time I cried about it to DH, he seemed surprised, like "Why are you still crying about this? We decided on a course of action." (see: emotional range of a teaspoon). I know it's the right decision for us now, but everything is so weird- picking a donor, calling the place to have it shipped, thinking about all the money we're spending with uncertain results... I wish I knew other people going through this! Hence me writing here in my sorrow! :) So the plan is the DS should arrive Friday, and I'll likely O sometime next week. It's been a while since I had a two week wait, and I am NOT looking forward to that.


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## silverbell

deafgal - good luck! I really hope this is the one that does the trick for you.

---

Some of you may not know me, but I've been on and off this thread since we found out about DH's azoospermia (and Klinefelter's syndrome) in June 2011.

We had 6 x donor sperm IUIs, which failed and 2 x IVF attempts with donor sperm. The first didn't work and the second failed before it began as only 1 egg was retrieved from me. At this point my clinic told me they suspected egg maturation issues.

So we moved on to donor embryo instead (donor eggs and donor sperm) and I had transfer last Monday.

We're over the moon today to have got our first ever :bfp: this morning. Obviously it's very, very early days but fingers crossed all goes well.

I am just here to tell you all because it was stories like these that really pushed me onwards when things were so tough and it all felt so pointless and worthless. I must admit even though ladies came on here with their BFPs I still never believed it would ever, ever happen to me. 

Keep the faith, ladies, and know that it's threads such as these and the people within them that are your tower of support when you need it. You're stronger than you know and we all help each other in ways only we can understand.

I hope I haven't upset or offended anybody here. I purely want to give you all some hope and I know just how important that is.

Thinking of you all and wishing all you still on the TTC train the very best of luck, good fortune and best wishes.


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## luckdragon

Just wanted to pop by and say massive congratulations on your news :) I always wonder how your getting on as we both got the first lot of news at the same time!
Hope your well :) really really pleased to check back and find the treatment has worked this time xxx


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## Mikihob

Update: 

We got the money from our 401K!! DH was checking to see if he got paid (due to the holiday they decided to pay him a day early) and he was surprised to see extra money. We hadn't even gotten a definite OK. I am SUPER excited! FINALLY we got some good news. I was really getting tired of constant bad news. 

Our plan of action is to order his HCG and FSH injections today. 3 months or 6 months. I am not sure if I should order 6 to make it easier or just order 3. After 3 months of injections he will go in for a SA to see if there is any improvement. If so, I start Clomid and we hope for the best. If not, we have the option to continue for another 3 months and do another SA OR just fly down to Seattle for his biopsy. Here's to hoping the injections work! Based on all the reading I have done, it doesn't look like it will work. But I am trying to be optimistic. 

deafgal I am praying this IUI is successful. When you do you go in for your BETA? When can you test? I am glad that you are able to relax. Stay comfortable and relaxed. Sleep a lot. :sleep: I am praying for you tons! :hugs: 

I hope everyone is doing well. Going into the holidays is hard when we are going through this. If only we could have one big conference call and all talk to each other. Yes, we would be on the phone for, about, 20 hours but it's necessary. :thumbup: I am thinking and praying for all of you. I am very thankful to have you ladies to talk to. I am reminded every day, even in my darkest hour, that you are here for me and I can come to you all. It means so much. THANK YOU!


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## deafgal01

Beta is done only after a home preg test confirms pregancy. So I will be testing dec 9 and then get beta after that if it comes up as bfp.


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## Stinas

Silverbell - I am over the moon for you!!! You were here when I first came on here too! I wish you a H&H 9months!! Super excited!!! Congrats!!


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## bubumaci

Miki - that's wonderful news re- the money!!! So glad that you are able to move forward!
DG .. I have my fingers and toes crossed for you!! :dust::dust:
Silverbell - Congratulations! That is so exciting! Wishing you a smooth, happy + healthy pregnancy! :)


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## tulip11

Silver bell heartiest congratulations have H&H 9 months.

yesterday my hubby gave a blood sample for chromosomal test so according to them we will find out after a week fingers crossed.


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## gem10

Silvermoon, congratulations. It is stories like yours that give us the strength to continue on our journey. Deafgal, Im praying for your BFP and a speedy 2ww. Keep the good news coming ladies!


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## sharon99

Silverbell, big congratulations, and thank you for sharing. It's nice to hear success stories from the other side. 

Mikihob, yay on getting the 401k money!! Good news at last!

I ordered our donor sperm yesterday- it should be arriving at the doctor's today. The lady taking my order was really nice, but kept transposing numbers on say, my zip code, or my doctor's address. I repeated the donor number like 5 times- please don't screw up that number, lady!!!

I hope everyone in the US had a happy Thanksgiving! Leftover day today. :) I am staying far away from any shopping malls.


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## arzoo

Goodluck Deafgal .... fingers crossed for you.

Rainbow, hope Jan 10th comes quickly for you.

Sharon love your phrase that men have emotional range of a teaspoon . They just dont understand things! Good luck Sharon, wish you success in your journey. My DH was asking me the other day, if I was sad because I am upset that I cant have something or was it that I am disappointed that I cant have a baby! I really dint know how to respond to that. 

Great news silverbell , hope you have a smooth pregnancy :) really happy for you., thank you for posting a positive story, hope that is what keeps most of us going and gives us courage on this journey.


Phew thats a relief mikihob, Glad you got the money

Tulip, good luck, hope the results are favourable.


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## sharon99

Arzoo, someone else used the teaspoon comment a while back- I think it's a quote from Harry Potter?? Anyway, it stuck with me because it is so appropriate!


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## Mikihob

sharon99 said:


> Arzoo, someone else used the teaspoon comment a while back- I think it's a quote from Harry Potter?? Anyway, it stuck with me because it is so appropriate!

Oh yeah. Hermione said that to Harry and Ron in the third movie or something. I totally forgot about that. But I agree it's SO TRUE! :xmas13:


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## deafgal01

How is everyone doing?


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## Olive333

Hello Everyone...

I'm new to post, but have been following this thread since we found out our diagnosis. I'm on page 180 or something like that. 

Our story - we have been TTC since April 2012. After a year of trying we went to the dr. and had bloodwork and SA. He found out that my husband has zero sperm and it came down to primary testicular failure. We decided not to do a mTESE since the chances of finding any sperm was almost none.

We are about to do our first IUI with DS and I'm very nervious. We both want a baby, but it still concerns me how we are bringing this baby into the world. 

I hope to find others that understand what we are going through since in real life, people don't understand our situation and we don't want to talk about it either.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: oh Olive! Not a great news but you found the best support group possible! Welcome to our group. U will find success stories and discussions on donors and different procedures. Wealth of info here!


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## tulip11

Tomorrow we will get result of my husband chromosomal test so fingers crossed .


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## sharon99

Ok, I just saw this:

https://www.harrypottershop.com/pro...D=1629608203&gclid=CP_dku2wlbsCFZFxQgodTVEA0w

If we were able to get together for imaginary drinks, I would totally wear this shirt! :)

Deafgal, how are YOU? How are you holding up in the TWW?

Olive, I am so sorry that you are here, too! But I agree with Deafgal, this forum has been a great source of comfort for me. I've only been posting a month or two, and I've never joined a forum before- but it is a great place to vent and let your feelings out amongst people who understand. 

I feel like I could have written your post myself- we are also about to start our first IUI with DS (sometime this week- I am watching for my LH surge). We also decided not to do mTESE, due to % and $. And, I am also still concerned with our choice to use DS! What are your concerns? The big one for me was deciding between this and adoption. What actually settled it for me was realizing that my husband was already feeling guilty for "causing" this struggle, and he wanted me to be able to experience pregnancy and not deprive me of that. 

I also struggle with not having anyone in real life who understands. I have told 2 very close friends, and that actually has been really helpful, even if they don't understand exactly. First of all, when I told them we were thinking about donor sperm, they didn't react like, "WWHHHAAT?"- and it made me realize, oh yeah, this is a normal thing- people do this ALL THE TIME. I was also nervous about telling my mom- I was raised Catholic, and have many family members through adoption. She was totally supportive, though, and said that they would have done the same thing if they had run into problems (my dad had been very sick early in their marriage). So I feel like it's brought us closer together, in a way. 

I'm sorry for the long, rambling post! But like Olive, I'm also getting a bit nervous about my first IUI! I feel like I did when we first started TTC and I was all excited and nervous! Fast forward 16 months and the bloom is off the rose. So I'm sure I will be less nervous about our 7th IUI, ha ha.

OK, last thing. I hate with a passion the TWW. Deafgal, what are you doing to take your mind off things? My problem is that I play roller derby- it is pretty much the ONLY thing that makes me relax- the combo of endorphins & adrenaline! But I don't think I will take the chance of playing during the TWW. Yoga is OK but tends to bore me to to tears. Rrrgh, my constant struggle with the TWW!

Tulip, just saw your post. Good luck tomorrow!


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## Stinas

Olive - No one will EVER understand unless they are going through the same exact thing. I learned that the hard way. This place is amazing to come to and vent to people who get it. 
Tons of luck with your dIUI!!! Once you see the peanut on the screen, no matter where the sperm came from its yours(and dh)!!


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## deafgal01

Good luck Tulip!

Sharon- I do not see why you can't continue being active in the roller derby. Did the dr discourage you from that during the tww? My understanding is if you have been exercising and active, then there is no need to stop doing that activity especially if it benefits you.

As for how I am doing... Well, I am stressed big time, over everything really, I have school final exams next week so mind is focused on that now. I am nervous about testing Monday. No project to focus on this time around. I could crochet but with final exams around the corner I felt that had a more important need of my attention in order for me to excell at it. Last class for the degree so that will be good.


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## tulip11

Today we called them and asked about results they said we don't tell anyone results on phone we will send you appointment letter possibly next appointment will be in January regarding results now I am thinking is there something serious that they didn't tell us because I remember when we asked about SA we were informed via phone .


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## Stinas

DG - Good luck with your exams!!!&#8230;and with the IUI!! Im routing for you!!!

Tulip - I really don't think they say anything over the phone anymore, so don't think the worse, even though we are all used to getting the worst news.


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## arzoo

Welcome Olive, Sorry to hear about the diagnosis. You have found the right forum , the ladies here are absolute bestmates to share your feelings. No one understands us better other than here.

Good luck tulip, agree with Stignas, these days they dont share and also it depends on the person who is at the other end. I had gone for my AMH test and the lady who responded sauid the doctor would call me to discuss the results. sat around nervously and called back as well, Got a letter from them yesterday saying I have excellent AMH levels (for my age ! )

Good luck deafgal... thinking of you.

Wishing every body else loads of luck and hopefully by next year this time everyone has realised their wishes


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## sharon99

Tulip, that is so aggravating that you have to wait to hear the results! I agree with everyone else- doesn't necessarily mean bad news. Just sucks that you have to wait!

Deafgal, GOOD LUCK with everything!! School final exams sounds like a good project to keep you occupied! My hubby is in school too (finals too) and I've been feeling guilty going to bed at a reasonable hour while he's still up working. I've never tried crocheting, but recently picked up needlework again (I used to do it as a kid)- maybe I'll do that in my TWW! I think you're right, the derby thing is probably more in my head than reality. Actually, one of my leaguemates is an OB/GYN, and she said it would be fine in the early days. I just know me, and I would get worried every time I fell or got hit that I would be ruining my chances. I'll probably end up going to some practices & just taking it a little easier.

Arzoo, congrats on the good AMH levels!


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## Olive333

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Sharon99 - I struggled with the decision thinking about the consequences and how different we would feel about this. After talking to my husband we decided we wanted a baby and have all of the stages that come with it. I didn't think about adoption much, no one that I know have adopted so I wouldn't even know where to start. Plus finances, all I have read is that is very expensive and it takes time. I was also raised catholic and my mom didn't think it twice when I told her. She is just happy that we are moving forward with something since I was very sad the first couple of months after the diagnosis. I know no mother likes to see their children suffer.

I think about how our child/children will think about this. We plan to tell, because we think is the right thing to do. I'm trying to live day by day and cross that bridge when we get to it, but it's so difficult for me since I'm a planner and a worrier (not good combinations)

I had my CD 12 u/s yesterday and I have 3 follies on the right (18,17,11) and 2 follies on the left (19,11). I trigger tonight and go in for the IUI on Saturday. I'm getting really nervous. I really haven't thought too much about the donor since my husband is going to all my appointments with me.

Anyone that has information about AMH...

Also about AMH what is the importance of it. All of my tests came back normal except AMH is .59. I just found out yesterday and they told me it wasn't a big deal since I had responded well to clomid. They said AMH only tells them how the body will react with fertility drugs. Now I'm reading it might be DOR? I'm starting to really worry, but I should wait at least after this IUI is done and we know the results.


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## melissaelaine

Hi all!! I've been a bit MIA, but posted a long update in my journal.

Olive - My understanding is that AMH tends to give information about the number of eggs you're likely to produce in response to stimulations, but it doesn't mean that the eggs are of lower quality. I was told that it is generally used to help doctors decide how aggressive to be with medications.

Deafgal - How's it going? I find that studying doesn't keep me interested enough to not think about these issues. I have to get really involved in a project, too. Maybe you could make some sort of project out of studying? Maybe you can make note cards or outlines. Things that will keep you more active than just reading?


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## Olive333

melissaelaine - thanks for your response. That is what I got from the doctors, so I'm going to try to stop worrying about that since I did respond well to fertility drug.


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## Mikihob

Hi all! DH started his HCG and FSH injections yesterday afternoon. The time it took to get all the meds ready and learn how to use the FSH pen was incredible. Lol. He isn't happy about all the injections (honestly, who is?) but is happy that we are FINALLY moving in the right direction. We have some of our 401K money in our savings ready and waiting for IVF, if we need to go down that road. In March of 2014 DH goes for his first SA. I am hoping and praying that the meds help. He is worried that this will all be for naught. But he keeps saying that if we don't at least try all the avenues we can, we might regret our decisions later. As long as the meds help his testosterone levels too, I am happy. Double good. 

I hope all of you are doing well. Welcome to the forum Olive, sorry you had to join us, but I am glad that you found us. This is a great thread with strong, smart women and we are all here to help you. 

How is everyone doing?


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## deafgal01

I agree Melissa but this class I am in has no study guide for the final. I have a receptive part and an expressive part so pouring my energy into the expressive part practicing my story for it. Midterm was impossible for me to focus on so I find school is not a great distraction in terms of the tww.


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## bubumaci

Hi Olive,
I am sorry that you have had to make your way here! But as the other ladies have said, with this diagnosis, you couldn't have found a better, more supportive forum! I wish you the best of luck!


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## tulip11

Hi girls i got another problem since last few days . Bloating and after every meal i feels so full and sick and want to throw everything i eat , lower backache, feeling nauseated and feeling pressure inside my abdomen like something is exerting pressure. I don't know what happened if I drink water so feels so full it never happens before to me like this.


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## NikkiR143

It's crazy how we're all dealing with similar situations, yet when you get down to specifics our experiences are really so different. 

I saw above about an FSH pen? My husband actually has the opposite problem- his FSH is a bit high, but LH and all other hormones are normal. We got some promising news though...after two semen analysis at the regular Kaiser showing no sperm, his urologist sent him to a speciality lab where he did a 3rd semen analysis. They posted the same results on the website- "TND" and "See Note" so I emailed his doc expecting the same response- no sperm! But guess what? Although no sperm was found under the microscope, upon centrifuging the sample they found 2 to 5 sperm in the pellet!! So, he's not considered azoospermic. His urologist said he is "Cryptospermic". I've read online that means there's a few live "hidden" sperm in the semen. Anyone heard of this? There isn't much info on it online. He goes in for his in-person exam with the urologist soon, so I guess we'll find out then. But I'm hoping ICSI is possibly an option now. I'm probably getting my hopes up, but I really couldn't take anymore bad news. 

Did you husband's samples get centrifuged? I've read online that many men get misdiagnosed as azoospermic, when really there are a couple sperm they can find when they spin the sample. 

Good luck to you all!


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## melissaelaine

nicolew412 said:


> It's crazy how we're all dealing with similar situations, yet when you get down to specifics our experiences are really so different.
> 
> I saw above about an FSH pen? My husband actually has the opposite problem- his FSH is a bit high, but LH and all other hormones are normal. We got some promising news though...after two semen analysis at the regular Kaiser showing no sperm, his urologist sent him to a speciality lab where he did a 3rd semen analysis. They posted the same results on the website- "TND" and "See Note" so I emailed his doc expecting the same response- no sperm! But guess what? Although no sperm was found under the microscope, upon centrifuging the sample they found 2 to 5 sperm in the pellet!! So, he's not considered azoospermic. His urologist said he is "Cryptospermic". I've read online that means there's a few live "hidden" sperm in the semen. Anyone heard of this? There isn't much info on it online. He goes in for his in-person exam with the urologist soon, so I guess we'll find out then. But I'm hoping ICSI is possibly an option now. I'm probably getting my hopes up, but I really couldn't take anymore bad news.
> 
> Did you husband's samples get centrifuged? I've read online that many men get misdiagnosed as azoospermic, when really there are a couple sperm they can find when they spin the sample.
> 
> Good luck to you all!

This actually sounds a lot like what we're experiencing. We haven't gotten his FSH results back yet, but he does consistently have some sperm in there, just never very much. I'm not really sure where this leaves us, though.


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## NikkiR143

melissaelaine said:


> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> It's crazy how we're all dealing with similar situations, yet when you get down to specifics our experiences are really so different.
> 
> I saw above about an FSH pen? My husband actually has the opposite problem- his FSH is a bit high, but LH and all other hormones are normal. We got some promising news though...after two semen analysis at the regular Kaiser showing no sperm, his urologist sent him to a speciality lab where he did a 3rd semen analysis. They posted the same results on the website- "TND" and "See Note" so I emailed his doc expecting the same response- no sperm! But guess what? Although no sperm was found under the microscope, upon centrifuging the sample they found 2 to 5 sperm in the pellet!! So, he's not considered azoospermic. His urologist said he is "Cryptospermic". I've read online that means there's a few live "hidden" sperm in the semen. Anyone heard of this? There isn't much info on it online. He goes in for his in-person exam with the urologist soon, so I guess we'll find out then. But I'm hoping ICSI is possibly an option now. I'm probably getting my hopes up, but I really couldn't take anymore bad news.
> 
> Did you husband's samples get centrifuged? I've read online that many men get misdiagnosed as azoospermic, when really there are a couple sperm they can find when they spin the sample.
> 
> Good luck to you all!
> 
> This actually sounds a lot like what we're experiencing. We haven't gotten his FSH results back yet, but he does consistently have some sperm in there, just never very much. I'm not really sure where this leaves us, though.Click to expand...

Really? My DH had one undescended testicle as a child, which they did surgery to bring down but it went back up into his abdomen. I've read online that elevated FSH levels indicated testicular failure, so I'm sure this has to do with the undescendes testicle (which is actually still in his abdomen...his parent's never took him back to get it removed. It raises his chances of cancer enormously, so this is something we need to talk to his urologist about as well). However, his other testicle is normal. Actually fairly big. But after 3 samples, only 2 to 5 sperm found after centrifugion? Not promising, but all we need is one! I know natural conception is not possible, but ICSI may be an option. Looks like that may be an option for you too. Have you talked to your doctor about it? From what I've read, it's a lot cheaper than IVF.


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## melissaelaine

Hey Nicole-

Same story here! Both of DH's testicles were undescended at birth. We originally thought it was one, but the urologist said that based on his physical exam, bother appeared to have been undescended. He had them repaired, but one had to be repaired twice due to complications. We're still planning to move forward with ICSI in January, unless the tests in the interim show something different. ICSI is actually more expensive than IVF because it is an additional procedure used with IVF. So, you have all of the IVF charges, plus they use ICSI to insert the sperm into the egg. Seems like that is going to be our only chance. 

Now I am really anxious to get his FSH results back. Do you know if there is any medication to take for that condition that could help with sperm production?


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## NikkiR143

Wow, similar stories. Maybe both of his were undescended too. He only has a scar on the right side though, where the one we know was undescended. Does your DH have scars on both sides? Obv something is wrong with the "normal" testicle though, if he's only producing 2 to 5 sperm. I have no idea if they're even good sperm. I hate waiting...I have so many questions now. I read somewhere on this forum that scar tissue from the testicle surgeries is a possibility for zero count in semen too. Once the scar tissue is removed, sperm counts go back up to normal. Did they look into that at all? Oh no, I didn't know that. I thought I read that ICSI was cheaper, Maybe it's IUI I'm thinking of. I'm still trying to grasp all the terms and information. How much are you looking at, if you don't mind me asking? I'm praying for you. I hope all goes well in January!


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## NikkiR143

Here's what I found on FSH...

Instructions

1

Discontinue any medication which may affect your FSH level, such as clomiphene. Certain medications used to treat conditions like oligospermia, or a low semen volume, can increase the levels of FSH and cause an incorrectly high result on FSH tests.
2

Talk to your doctor about hormone therapy to decrease FSH levels. If your high FSH is due to a pituitary malfunction, the levels of FSH may be suppressed by treatment with synthetic hormones.
3

Have an examination performed to search for damage to the testicles. Men who have undergone trauma or damage to their testicles may not produce sperm correctly, which can raise FSH levels. An ultrasound examination may indicate the problem areas, allowing them to be repaired surgically. Once repaired, FSH levels and sperm production can normalize.


Read more: https://www.ehow.com/how_5730742_lower-fsh-levels-men.html#ixzz2miewOrPR


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## melissaelaine

Thanks for that info, Nicole! I bet my DH falls into category 3. I had heard that about scar tissue. At my DH's next appointment, he'll have a sonogram done to look for blocking, which may reveal scar tissue, I suppose. They can also do a biopsy (tese) to try to retrieve sperm, so that is another option. I have a journal with lots more infor about our journey. The link is in my sig if you want to stalk. Oh, and IUI is the one that is cheaper, by the way!


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## sharon99

Feeling very discouraged today! I missed my LH surge. :( It came early and I figured it was just starting up... but my tests have been getting lighter and lighter. I never got a really glaring positive, so I guess I couldn't have changed anything. I hate the pressure of trying to pinpoint ovulation, especially now that it involves doctors and lots of money. And it's possible/ likely that I'll miss next month, too, due to holiday travel. And by the next month I'll have turned 36! I know 2 months isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things- just feeling a little sorry for myself today.

Good luck tomorrow, Olive! Happy weekend, everyone else!


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## Mercury1

To those dealing with undescended testicles - my husband had his repaired at age 11, and after going through what you're going through now with zero in samples, we now have a 2 week old daughter using his sperm. 

His FSH was high, but that's to be expected as it shows his body has recognised that because sperm production has been damaged from the testicles being too hot it's working extra hard to produce any sperm. So he was given medication to try and get the FSH even higher which would then force his body to make as much sperm as possible. We were still getting mainly zero samples or occasional non-motile sperm, so planned an ICSI cycle with surgical sperm retrieval, but at the last minute good quality sperm were found in the samples (altho tiny numbers) so he avoided surgery.

At the beginning we had the additional tests like looking at pituitary function or checking for blockages and genetic issues, but the docs all felt that was a formality, and given his history of undescended testicles they didn't expect to find any other causes for the azoospermia. We also did the basic lifestyle changes (wearing loose underwear, avoiding sitting down for long periods, taking basic supplements etc)

If there's anything I can help with, please ask. I did lots of reading at the beginning, and was very lucky to be referred to doctors that really understood the issues. It seems there's lots of information out there - including from ' specialists' which isn't very accurate!

Good luck .... xx


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## NikkiR143

Thanks for your story Mercury1! Congratulations on your bundle of joy. Thanks for all the info as well- sounds very similar to what we're going through! How high was his FSH if you remember? My DH's is 900 and something. I think normal goes up to 800, so it's slightly high and I'm sure because of the undescended testicle. Did you end up doing IVF with ICSI when they found the good sperm? Do you mind me asking how much it cost? And did it work the first time? I'm sure this is the route we will need to take. Thanks again!


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## Mercury1

Hi nicole - glad to have helped! FSH must be measured in different units. His varied between 18-21, and I think around 10/12 was normal. But Dr Schlegel in New York (who seems to be the world expert at this) has found that the FSH level doesn't predict the likelihood of finding sperm, so is most useful just for confirming NOA.

Yes, we had ICSI. You need to have way more sperm than we had for straight IVF - I think at least a few million per ml. Our total cycle prob cost around £8,000, and we were very fortunate that it worked first time. We also froze some sperm for future use while it was there, as unfortunately with azoospermia it seems likely to get worse over time. If you are having anything in the samples, it may be worth asking about freezing now, as you don't want to start a cycle and have nothing on the day!

Are you seeing a urologist or a fertility clinic? I hope you're doing ok, it's such a roller coaster journey.


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## NikkiR143

We had an appointment to see a fertility specialist but I had to cancel due to a work ibligation. My hubby has had a phone consult with his urologist, and he goes in for a in-person appointment tomorrow. I'm hoping we'll know more after tomorrow. Fortunately, our insurance covers infertility- we haven't had to pay one cent so far for semen analysis' or blood tests, but unfortunately, in CA, IVF is not covered. I hope this isn't TMI- but my DH's good testicle swells really big sometimes, but it normal size in the mornings when he wakes up, and is lying down. I wonder if he has a hydrocele or variocele vein. I've also heard that the good testicle sometimes comepnsates in size when there's an undescended one. Looking forward to what the urologist has to say tomorrow after doing a physical. & yes, it's a total roller coaster. I burst into crying episodes from time to time. I just pray we have a successful outcome. Thanks for the support! This thread is a life saver.


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## melissaelaine

Mercury1 said:


> To those dealing with undescended testicles - my husband had his repaired at age 11, and after going through what you're going through now with zero in samples, we now have a 2 week old daughter using his sperm.
> 
> His FSH was high, but that's to be expected as it shows his body has recognised that because sperm production has been damaged from the testicles being too hot it's working extra hard to produce any sperm. So he was given medication to try and get the FSH even higher which would then force his body to make as much sperm as possible. We were still getting mainly zero samples or occasional non-motile sperm, so planned an ICSI cycle with surgical sperm retrieval, but at the last minute good quality sperm were found in the samples (altho tiny numbers) so he avoided surgery.
> 
> At the beginning we had the additional tests like looking at pituitary function or checking for blockages and genetic issues, but the docs all felt that was a formality, and given his history of undescended testicles they didn't expect to find any other causes for the azoospermia. We also did the basic lifestyle changes (wearing loose underwear, avoiding sitting down for long periods, taking basic supplements etc)
> 
> If there's anything I can help with, please ask. I did lots of reading at the beginning, and was very lucky to be referred to doctors that really understood the issues. It seems there's lots of information out there - including from ' specialists' which isn't very accurate!
> 
> Good luck .... xx

Thank you so much for sharing your story! I have so many questions. :)

- Was your DH still taking FSH when he got the ejaculate sample for IVF? Or had he stopped taking it by then?

- How far in advance of your IVF was the ejaculate sample taken? Did they freeze and thaw the sample?

- How many sperm did they get? Do you have a sense of how few is too few to do ICSI?


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## Mercury1

Hi melissaelaine - a few years ago (before we were together) he had a sample which had around half a million. Then 2 years ago when we were thinking of TTC it was down to zero. He was put on tamoxifen, which is supposed to get the FSH to go up. We got a few non-motile sperm only, so they tried a different drug called anastrozole, but SAs were back to zero. So back to tamoxifen, and after about 6/7 months in total on meds he had good quality sperm but small numbers in ejaculate when I was already taking IVF drugs. He was still on the tamoxifen and froze a few samples as back up, but on the day of EC he did a fresh sample and that's what we used. 

I think it was still tiny numbers - some of the samples only showed sperm after centrifuging. They only count the amount they can see in a small bit of the specimen and then work out roughly what that would equate to in the whole sample, and I got the impression we were still only in double figures, but they were motile. You really do only need one sperm for each egg with ICSI, although it's preferable to have more so there's a choice for the embryologists. And even if they're non-motile it doesn't necessarily mean they're dead, so they may still be suitable for ICSI. Our fertilisation rate was a bit rubbish, though. Not sure if that was an egg or sperm issue.

Hope that answers your questions? Just ask if you have any more!


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## tulip11

Hi

I have question regarding centrifuge what I know the labs didn't do this in case of my hubby samples so now how can we asks them any suggestion?


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## melissaelaine

Tulip-

When I asked my RE, I asked him if they counted the sperm by spinning the sample or if they only counted what was in a smaller portion. Although it wasn't clear from the SA results we were given, the RE told me that they do spin the samples to count all of the sperm in the sample (at least with lower numbers, like my DH's).


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## tulip11

So it means they apply the same procedure for every SA. Thanks. On Thursday we have our first appointment with assisted fertility specialist as referred by our urologist idk what they will do as we haven't got genetic test result and still one SA is left. And even though what I think after so many zero sperms results we got what next they will do. Seems quite strange.


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## AuCa

Tulip - no, it depends on the lab. You should ask them if they do it or not.
Ours doesn't do it as a standard, only when they do the specialized analysis pre-IVF (for which we had to pay out of pocket).


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## NikkiR143

So my hubby just had his appt with his urologist. I wish I could've been there, because my husband is kind of lost with all of this (as am I really, but I've done a little more research and feel like I could be a better adovcate for him and ask better questions). He basically told him IVF is our only option, because his numbers are so low. He said the sperm they did find, was good though. But that he would do an incision on his testicle, extract the sperm, and then do IVF. He said IVF is our only option (besides donor sperm or adoption). He said he may have a hernia (causing his testicle to enlarge- but he has no pain, so I don't think this is it) or extra fluid in his scrotum- they're doing an xray on him today at 2:00. This will tell the doc more about his testicle (because due to the extra fluid, he wasn't actually able to feel it). The other one is undescended. I wonder what's wrong with his dropped testicle causing it to produce so little sperm? Hormones are all normal, besides FSH, so he didn't offer to do any hormone therapy to increase numbers or anything like that. He didn't say much about scar tissue causing a blockage either. I was thinking this could be a possiblity since he has surgery on his undescended testicle as a child. Hopefully the ultrasound can give more info on that as well. So basically we're looking at $1,000 to $2,000 for the surgery on his testicle to extract sperm (is this what ICSI is??) and another $10,000 to $12,000 for IVF. And what if it doesn't work? that money goes down the drain? And when we want a 2nd, it's another 15k? He said it can take 6 months to get us in for our IVF appt, so he said give him the go ahead and he'll refer us today. So much to think about...We don't have 12k just lying around. Have any of you women looked into funding for it? I want his baby, and I'll do anything I need to. Money doesn't mean anything, but it's still so stressful to think about.


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## NikkiR143

Hi Tulip-

I would definitely ask! I've read online that if labs don't centrifuge, it causes doctors to give the wrong diagnosis to their patients- as azoospermic instead of cryptospermic. This is a huge difference! At least with small numbers of sperm, IVF is still a possiblity. And proves to the doctor that your husband's testicle is producing some sperm. With Kaiser, my husband did two semen analysis's in which they didn't centrifuge at the regular lab. His urologist then sent him to a speciality Kaiser lab, where they did centrifuge it. Fortunately, we have really good medical insurance so this was all covered. I'm not sure what your insurance looks like, but I pray that the lab your husband has been going to would do that for him.


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## Deb111

Nicole - ivf is when they put an egg in a dish surrounded by a solution with sperm in and let things happen. Icsi is when they take a single sperm and inject it directly into a single egg. Wishing you all the best.

I miss you all girls and hope you are all making progress. Welcome to the newbies. Youve come to a great place for support x x


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## NikkiR143

Oh ok, thank you! So they're probably hoping that by extracting the sperm directly from his testicle that they'll have a larger sample to work with than taking it from his semen? So we only have to do IVF, not IVF with ICSI? However, if they take the sperm directly from his testicle, isn't it not matured yet? Wouldn't it be additional costs to mature the sperm, and then do IVF? Doc didn't say anything about ICSI to my husband, just the surgery on his testicle for extraction and IVF. Ugh, too much info at once, lol. As you can see, we're just beginning this journey. I'm sure I'll catch on to all these terms quick.


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## Mikihob

Hi ladies. Hope this info helps you understand what the doctor is telling your DH's. 

My DH has very low testosterone, but normal FSH. My DH is using an FSH pen along with HCG injections in hopes the extra FSH will start sperm production. I do not know if the hospital spun my DH's sample. I am assuming not because in Alaska we have very limited doctor knowledge. We are working with doctor's in Seattle and will have to fly down their for almost every procedure. 

Nicole, when the doctors take the un-matured sperm from DH testicle, they don't mature it. Since it can't swim they use ICSI and put that individual sperm into one of your eggs. If they have motility (can swim) they don't use ICSI unless the number of sperm is low. In case, they would remove the sperm around your egg retrieval and then immediately put the sperm in the egg and allow the embryo to develop. OR they will take those sperm and freeze them until the day of your egg retrieval. I have heard of this done in several different ways. It depends on where you are and what doctor you are using. 

DH and I withdrew money from our 401K retirement fund for IVF. Without it we would have had to take out a fertility loan through our clinic or privately. We are looking at $13,000 for IVF, $5,000 for my meds, and about $3,000 for DH's surgical sperm retrieval. Currently his FSH and HCG cost $8,000 for every three months. It's so expensive and scary. If he doesn't produce sperm at all in the six month treatment period....that's $16,000 down the drain with nothing to show for it. It's VERY hard. 

Sorry for the long post. Hope I helped a little with the information.


----------



## Mikihob

Deafgal how are you doing? I think today is your IUI test day, right? Have you tested yet? Hope all is well with you. :hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

Frustrated. My period is all weird so naturally i want to be convinced by blood test but drs office says it is af and not implantation bleed that I be having. Just because my urine tests don't say bfp yet after 14 dpo.


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## Mikihob

I'm sorry to hear that deafgal. That sounds so frustrating! If you don't have usual periods, they can't assume it's a period and you aren't pregnant. They should do a blood test to be sure. What happens if you are and it isn't caught? Can you tell them you want a blood test no matter what?


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## deafgal01

They say it is messed up from the hormones and procedures this cycle. But I have y doubts- the lowest dose? C'mon I don't buy it.


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## bubumaci

Nicole - the procedure, where they cut DH's testicle to retrieve sperm "directly from the source" is called TESE (or mTESE). If they are uncertain as to whether or not they will be able to find anything, it is recommendable to have the surgery done before you start stimming and freeze the sperm (otherwise, it can happen, that you have undergone everything for egg retrieval and then there is nothing there ...). You are more on the safe side that way and DH would still have to provide a fresh sample on the day of egg retrieval - if you are lucky, they can use the fresh sample to fertilise and don't have to use the frozen sperm.

Since it sounds like DH has so few sperm, I think it is highly unlikely that the clinic would use only IVF. That is usually the procedure when IUI hasn't worked / there is more an issue with the female donor, than the male - because the sperm are plenty and strong enough to fertilise the egg themselves, once there is one there for them. When it is a case of serious male infertility,i.e. too few sperm & poor motility, it is most likely that the clinic will have to do ICSI, by injecting one sperm into one egg (doing this per retrieved egg, so you can end up with several embies) - and then that is kept in the IVF medium to develop until transfer.

DG ... fingers still crossed for you :) xx


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## sharon99

Uggh, Deafgal, it sounds like you are stuck in an awful limbo. How are you holding up? Fingers crossed for you.

Nicole, it sounds like everyone had great IVF/ICSI advice for you. I agree on the money part being SO STRESSFUL. I never *thought* I cared about money or material things... but it is stressful to see our money pouring out of our bank account. I DO care about having a roof over my head & being able to pay the bills!


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## NikkiR143

Thanks for all the info ladies! Makes a lot more sense now. So since he has so few sperm in his semen, we'll be doing surgical sperm extraction, ICSI, and IVF. So we're prob looking at 15,000 minimum. I emailed member services today to see if IVF is covered by some miracle, but I know it isn't. The joys of living in California. My hubby had his ultrasound yesterday, so I guess that will tell us a little more about his undescended testicle and anything wrong in there. I also purchased Wellman's Conception vitamins yesterday online (from the UK). Only $16 on Amazon. I've read online about some amazing stories online about them, so I figured it couldn't hurt to try. Miracles do happen, right? For now, I guess we just need to start thinking about saving, saving, saving. Good luck to you all!


----------



## gem10

Hello ladies, 

Haven't posted in a bit, but I have been reading all of the threads. Deafgal, I have been thinking of you the past two weeks. I'm so sorry you're having a tough go, praying that things take a turn for the best.

I'm watching this new show on MTV, and thinking of all of you. Not sure if anyone has seen it. But if you are using donor sperm, it really gives you an idea of what your kids may be feeling in 18 years. While we are still hoping our next mTESE/ICSI cycle will be successful, there's always a chance we may still have to use DS. This show has kind of helped me feel better about it. A lot of the kids feel like they don't want to meet the donor because they feel that their dad is their dad and there's no need. I don't know, I thought it was kind of cool. If you get a chance, check it out.

Thanksgiving here was pretty tough. Had our first cycle worked this would have been the time I would be able to tell people. And of course, at least three people made announcements on Facebook. Facebook is probably the worst thing when you are TTC. Most posts were about baby number two, which makes it worse.

Then I hung out with my newly preggo friend the other day. She was complaining how bloated she felt because of all of the hormones. I told her I understood bc when I was on the meds for the implantation I was super bloated. I was on three different forms of hormones multiple times a day mind you. Her response was, well wait until you start producing it naturally. Am I crazy, or does that just seem insensitive? I would LOVE to be bloated. I would LOVE to be nauseaus. I would LOVE to be tired. I WISH I could produce it naturally. Like, here I am making an effort to hang out and listen, but it's comments like these that just make it so hard for me. And of course if I start pulling away, everyone will be like, oh its because you're pregnant. She's jealous. No, I'm trying to be a good friend, but I am sick of these stupid comments. If one more person tells me to relax and that's when it will happen I may lose my mind!!! Are they serious? I'm not doing this naturally folks, that theory is kind of out the window for us.

Anyway, so sorry for the rant. I just feel like I'm surrounded by people I can't talk to. I found a quote online that said, "Loneliness does not come from not having anyone around you, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to you." That pretty much sums up how I feel, minus you ladies. My saving grace.

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers, especially as we enter the holiday season, probably the toughest time. Take care all.


----------



## NikkiR143

gem10 said:


> Hello ladies,
> 
> Haven't posted in a bit, but I have been reading all of the threads. Deafgal, I have been thinking of you the past two weeks. I'm so sorry you're having a tough go, praying that things take a turn for the best.
> 
> I'm watching this new show on MTV, and thinking of all of you. Not sure if anyone has seen it. But if you are using donor sperm, it really gives you an idea of what your kids may be feeling in 18 years. While we are still hoping our next mTESE/ICSI cycle will be successful, there's always a chance we may still have to use DS. This show has kind of helped me feel better about it. A lot of the kids feel like they don't want to meet the donor because they feel that their dad is their dad and there's no need. I don't know, I thought it was kind of cool. If you get a chance, check it out.
> 
> Thanksgiving here was pretty tough. Had our first cycle worked this would have been the time I would be able to tell people. And of course, at least three people made announcements on Facebook. Facebook is probably the worst thing when you are TTC. Most posts were about baby number two, which makes it worse.
> 
> Then I hung out with my newly preggo friend the other day. She was complaining how bloated she felt because of all of the hormones. I told her I understood bc when I was on the meds for the implantation I was super bloated. I was on three different forms of hormones multiple times a day mind you. Her response was, well wait until you start producing it naturally. Am I crazy, or does that just seem insensitive? I would LOVE to be bloated. I would LOVE to be nauseaus. I would LOVE to be tired. I WISH I could produce it naturally. Like, here I am making an effort to hang out and listen, but it's comments like these that just make it so hard for me. And of course if I start pulling away, everyone will be like, oh its because you're pregnant. She's jealous. No, I'm trying to be a good friend, but I am sick of these stupid comments. If one more person tells me to relax and that's when it will happen I may lose my mind!!! Are they serious? I'm not doing this naturally folks, that theory is kind of out the window for us.
> 
> Anyway, so sorry for the rant. I just feel like I'm surrounded by people I can't talk to. I found a quote online that said, "Loneliness does not come from not having anyone around you, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to you." That pretty much sums up how I feel, minus you ladies. My saving grace.
> 
> Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers, especially as we enter the holiday season, probably the toughest time. Take care all.


Hi Gem, 

You took the words out of my mouth! I completely understand what you're going through. People are very, very naive when it comes to fertility issues, because it comes so easy to so many people (many undeserving people might I add). Facebook is the worst! I told a few of my best friends my situation, and since then it seems like all of their posts are about how much they love their children and how grateful they are for their families. And while I adore these posts as well, and I love all of my friend's children and families, I can't help but think their posts are because they're feeling "extra" grateful for their children, because of what I'm going through. It hurts. The thread is definitely a life saver; I'm glad I found it! Please rant whenever you want- we're all here for you! I know a baby will happen for all of us, all in due time


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## bubumaci

Gem .... the thing is - people, who do not go through what we go through - have no idea. They can't even begin to imagine!

My Father, who really is behind us in all of this and would probably love nothing more than for it to finally work for us, sent me a text message after I told him that ER was successful, but that DH was down because of his :spermy: ... his text "It is a shame, but it is destiny! Dh has to try and be philosophical about it and so of course do you. Let us hope that there is some good news around the corner. It is just a question of remaining positive. Still more love to you both." ... of course I promptly saw red and wrote back "Well, I wish it were just a question of remaining positive. Unfortunately, positive doesn't improve the quality of his sperm, nor the quality of the embryo. And it is easy for someone without fertility issues to say that. It is an unbelievable burden to bear. He feels broken. And has to see me suffer through everything. Doesn't mean I have stopped hoping. I will know more tomorrow." ...

We spoke after this and he apologised for his use of words and understood what I meant. He definitely didn't mean to be insensitive. But as I say ... unless you are affected by this - you just don't know and words said meant in good faith can be unbelievably hurtful (and I know the last thing Daddy would want to do is to hurt my feelings!). The same goes for your friend ... perhaps she meant it in a nice way, that you can look forward to when you are producing the hormones naturally ... but because we are so sensitive to the whole topic, something meant nicely hurt you. I am so with you! I would love to be able to feel it ... and would *try* to take it all with pride - because the desire to have our own miracle is just so strong...

We just have to try and remember, that those who don't know : DON'T KNOW ... and they never will. And they are lucky that they never will! 

Sending you huge hugs :hugs: xxx <3


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## NikkiR143

Latest news- 

DH's urologist wrote us today regarding his ultrasound. Both testes there (one undescended, one normal), no masses. But he may have a hernia (which causes his left scrotum to swell when he's standing). It doesn't cause him any pain though, so the doc suggested he have surgery for this after we take care of the fertility issues. 

I'm just curious- has anyone read anything about a hernia impairing fertility? My DH's scrotum swells really big (left side- because this is the descended testicle) when he's standing, but is normal when he's lying down. He testicle seems normal size- not small at all. I don't get what's impairing his fertility then. I guess his good testicle just isn't producing enough.


----------



## tulip11

update 

Today we have our first appointment with dr to discuss further situation she asked me and my hubby some standard questions then she came to the results of his recent SA after three months clomid treatment so still no sperm was found. she said that my hubby FSH level is high somewhere 13 and there is probability of no sperm production but at same time she said that his testicles size is normal which indicates something good but still we cant say anything confirmed. she said that he will be having another ultra sound where they will look at tubes etc if there is something found so they will regard it as obstructive azoospermia. My hubby had his one ultra sound which general indicate testicles size etc and on the basis of that urologist said its NOA . but today dr said no we cant confirm it just on basis of that ultra sound we will do another internal ultrasound which will show us everything so after that we will say either its obstructive or not. then she also sent me for some blood work she said if in case we find something so we will call you as well for further procedure. 

Now I am confused what I read on internet that in case of NOA testicles size is small but my hubby testicles size is normal and thats what dr said that its good thing that size is normal. 

Is there anyone whose hubby has normal size testicles and high FSH 13. any hope today we are completely lost.


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## NikkiR143

tulip11 said:


> update
> 
> Today we have our first appointment with dr to discuss further situation she asked me and my hubby some standard questions then she came to the results of his recent SA after three months clomid treatment so still no sperm was found. she said that my hubby FSH level is high somewhere 13 and there is probability of no sperm production but at same time she said that his testicles size is normal which indicates something good but still we cant say anything confirmed. she said that he will be having another ultra sound where they will look at tubes etc if there is something found so they will regard it as obstructive azoospermia. My hubby had his one ultra sound which general indicate testicles size etc and on the basis of that urologist said its NOA . but today dr said no we cant confirm it just on basis of that ultra sound we will do another internal ultrasound which will show us everything so after that we will say either its obstructive or not. then she also sent me for some blood work she said if in case we find something so we will call you as well for further procedure.
> 
> Now I am confused what I read on internet that in case of NOA testicles size is small but my hubby testicles size is normal and thats what dr said that its good thing that size is normal.
> 
> Is there anyone whose hubby has normal size testicles and high FSH 13. any hope today we are completely lost.

Yes, my husband's testicle is normal size and he has high FSH- but all other homornes and genetics are normal. His urologist told him that the high FSH tells him that it's not obstructive azoospermia. My husband also had a regular ultrasound, which just showed the doctor that both testicles are there (one undescended) and that he has a hernia, but other than that he's still saying IVF with ICSI and surgical sperm extraction is our only option. I'm still not convinced though. I'm in denial. I wish it was obstructive azoospermia, and it was something we could fix with a simple surgery. It's been hard having to wrap my mind around IVF. I wish natural pregnancy was still an option for us. Maybe an internal ultrasound is something I should ask for?


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## Olive333

Hi ladies,

I had my DIUI on Saturday and now it's just the waiting game. I don't feel like it took, but lets hope it did.

I sometimes wish we would've tried harder to have a baby from my husband and do the extraction from my husband and risk it, but I just don't know if I could handle losing all that money if nothing was found. I don't want to do IVF with DS since I can just do IUI's. Such difficult decisions that we have to make.


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## Rainbow123

Good luck Olive  X


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## bubumaci

FXd for you Olive! :) :dust::dust::dust:


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## BrandyRelax

I just wanted to reinforce that my hubby had normal testicles and other than elevated LH and FSH all was normal. Basically high FSH is that your body sees something wrong an is trying to fix it.

As hope, when we did the first mTESE they found a few and that was used for IVF, unfortunately, it didn't stick, so we are going down the dIUI route because we have done all we can do to have a baby that is genetically ours.

Hopefully your journey is more successful.



tulip11 said:


> update
> 
> Today we have our first appointment with dr to discuss further situation she asked me and my hubby some standard questions then she came to the results of his recent SA after three months clomid treatment so still no sperm was found. she said that my hubby FSH level is high somewhere 13 and there is probability of no sperm production but at same time she said that his testicles size is normal which indicates something good but still we cant say anything confirmed. she said that he will be having another ultra sound where they will look at tubes etc if there is something found so they will regard it as obstructive azoospermia. My hubby had his one ultra sound which general indicate testicles size etc and on the basis of that urologist said its NOA . but today dr said no we cant confirm it just on basis of that ultra sound we will do another internal ultrasound which will show us everything so after that we will say either its obstructive or not. then she also sent me for some blood work she said if in case we find something so we will call you as well for further procedure.
> 
> Now I am confused what I read on internet that in case of NOA testicles size is small but my hubby testicles size is normal and thats what dr said that its good thing that size is normal.
> 
> Is there anyone whose hubby has normal size testicles and high FSH 13. any hope today we are completely lost.


----------



## tulip11

nicolew412 said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> update
> 
> Today we have our first appointment with dr to discuss further situation she asked me and my hubby some standard questions then she came to the results of his recent SA after three months clomid treatment so still no sperm was found. she said that my hubby FSH level is high somewhere 13 and there is probability of no sperm production but at same time she said that his testicles size is normal which indicates something good but still we cant say anything confirmed. she said that he will be having another ultra sound where they will look at tubes etc if there is something found so they will regard it as obstructive azoospermia. My hubby had his one ultra sound which general indicate testicles size etc and on the basis of that urologist said its NOA . but today dr said no we cant confirm it just on basis of that ultra sound we will do another internal ultrasound which will show us everything so after that we will say either its obstructive or not. then she also sent me for some blood work she said if in case we find something so we will call you as well for further procedure.
> 
> Now I am confused what I read on internet that in case of NOA testicles size is small but my hubby testicles size is normal and thats what dr said that its good thing that size is normal.
> 
> Is there anyone whose hubby has normal size testicles and high FSH 13. any hope today we are completely lost.
> 
> Yes, my husband's testicle is normal size and he has high FSH- but all other homornes and genetics are normal. His urologist told him that the high FSH tells him that it's not obstructive azoospermia. My husband also had a regular ultrasound, which just showed the doctor that both testicles are there (one undescended) and that he has a hernia, but other than that he's still saying IVF with ICSI and surgical sperm extraction is our only option. I'm still not convinced though. I'm in denial. I wish it was obstructive azoospermia, and it was something we could fix with a simple surgery. It's been hard having to wrap my mind around IVF. I wish natural pregnancy was still an option for us. Maybe an internal ultrasound is something I should ask for?Click to expand...


Yes you should go for internal ultra sound as our dr said that the first one was just general one and checked few things now the second ultra sound will check tubes etc so then we will know whether its NOA or Obs azoo. best of luck


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## tulip11

My hubby FSH is 13.2 is it too high ?actually yesterday I was searching on google and i came across different posts where people stated that their FSH were 45, 70 and still they found sperms . and even I read it somewhere that FSH 13 is somewhat normal and this really made me so confused.


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## sharon99

Gem, thank you for sharing that MTV show. I'd never heard of it (those young whippersnappers and their MTV!)- but it was really interesting. I only watched episode 3 (the only one online). It gave me some hope, too, but made me a little sad as well. Especially when the kids said they would get made fun of in school, with kids calling them a "science experiment". I guess I just have to remember that kids will make fun of other kids for ANYthing. That's one of the biggest hangups for me- will the kids feel bad about themselves, or feel like something's missing from their lives? I hate the idea of setting them up for pain before they're even conceived. But then again, life is painful, so I'd be setting them up for pain no matter what...??? Welcome to the back-and-forth that runs through my head all day! Oh yeah, and that was totally insensitive of your friend. :) Even if she didn't mean it to be. 

Olive, good luck!! What are YOU doing to distract yourself in the two week wait? I love hearing other people's diversionary tactics!


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## tulip11

I found very positive reviews about sperm hope on google. does this really work out any one ?


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## NikkiR143

I have a general question- is it possible to have obstructive azoospermia when a couple sperm are found in semen? I've read online that it's mostly not possible, because some sperm are getting through, but what if the scarring/obstruction is so bad that only a couple can make it through? I really think my hubby should go for a 2nd opinion before we spend 15k on ICSI & IVF. Did your hubby's go to more than one urologist?


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## Stinas

Nicole - I would go see another Urologist. If some sperm is coming out, there is production, something is probably blocking it OR he just needs a kick start&#8230;.maybe some clomid or something.


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## rdleela

Nicole, my hubby was one of those with obstructive azoospermia and we decided to go with a surgery on him before IVF - but we did have zero sperm, none were coming through. If the wait time isn't crazy to get another opinion, and you guys feel it would be worth it, go see another urologist. But I would look for someone who specializes in male infertility - and vasectomy reversals - cause that is what we had done to "repair" my hubby (even though he'd never had a vasectomy)...


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## AuCa

nicolew412 said:


> I have a general question- is it possible to have obstructive azoospermia when a couple sperm are found in semen? I've read online that it's mostly not possible, because some sperm are getting through, but what if the scarring/obstruction is so bad that only a couple can make it through? I really think my hubby should go for a 2nd opinion before we spend 15k on ICSI & IVF. Did your hubby's go to more than one urologist?

Did he ever get the imaging tests done to rule out obstructive azoo? If not, I'd definitely do that first before starting an IVF cycle.


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## NikkiR143

He's had a general ultrasound (not internal), which just showed urologist he has a scrotal hernia. Doc said nothing else about ultrasound though, and didn't offer to do an internal ultrasound or imaging. If I bring this to the urologist's attention, is that what it's called? An internal ultrasound to look for blocking? Or imaging? Just want to make sure I'm asking for the right thing. We have full infertility coverage (excluding IVF), but it's with Kaiser Medical Center, and Kaiser can be very cheap when it comes to providing for their patients. You really have to be your own advocate.


----------



## Olive333

Sharon99 - I have really been so busy with Christmas shopping and wrapping presents this last week, that I haven't really had time to just think about that. Ofcourse any cramp here and there, I think it might be because I'm pregnant.

I don't feel anything so I think it didn't take, but I just have to wait until the weekend to find out.

I have been watching that MTV show since the first episode. What I can see is that children born from a heterosexual couple are less likely to want to know about the donor. It seems that the one's that are missing the father figure are the one's interested in finding out, like something is missing. I also wonder about kids being bullies, even though I want to be open with the child I have to be very careful not to say too much at an early age, where they don't have a filter and can blurt it out to everyone.


----------



## AuCa

nicolew412 said:


> He's had a general ultrasound (not internal), which just showed urologist he has a scrotal hernia. Doc said nothing else about ultrasound though, and didn't offer to do an internal ultrasound or imaging. If I bring this to the urologist's attention, is that what it's called? An internal ultrasound to look for blocking? Or imaging? Just want to make sure I'm asking for the right thing. We have full infertility coverage (excluding IVF), but it's with Kaiser Medical Center, and Kaiser can be very cheap when it comes to providing for their patients. You really have to be your own advocate.

That's the one they typically do (and that's what I meant with imaging 0 imaging is just an umbrella term for ultrasounds, X-rays and other fancy techniques like CT, MRI, you name it). If they didn't see anything on that I'd say it's highly unlikely you have a blockage. The only other imaging that can be done is a transrectal ultrasound. We specifically asked about that but were told that there is no point since if there was a blockage there we would for sure see a decreased ejaculate volume. So, if you don't have a low volume, you might want to think about if you really want to do that test...
I'm not aware of any other imaging test that is used to diagnose obstructive azoospermia.

Here is a good link explaining the two and when they are indicated:
https://www.biij.org/2007/1/e12/abstract.asp?ID=187


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## rdleela

Ditto AuCa! We did get the transrectal u/s, hubby did (and still does) have a lower volume. The transrectal can help determine where the possible blockage MAY be, hence which surgery to repair may work...


----------



## NikkiR143

His first SA was only 1.5 ml volume. 2nd SA was 2.0 ml, and 3rd was 2.2 ml. So it's considered normal, but I'd still say on the lower side. Urologist doesn't think blockage is the issue because his FSH is slightly high (which indicates testicular failure)- but he has one undescended testicle, so couldn't this be the cause of the slightly elevated FSH? One of his testicles has failed, so I could see why his FSH would be high. But it still doesn't account for the good teste. He had multiple surgeries as a child, and I just think scarring is a high possiblity. But I would have to do some serious convinicing to get my husband in for a transrectal ultrasound, lol.


----------



## AuCa

nicolew412 said:


> His first SA was only 1.5 ml volume. 2nd SA was 2.0 ml, and 3rd was 2.2 ml. So it's considered normal, but I'd still say on the lower side. Urologist doesn't think blockage is the issue because his FSH is slightly high (which indicates testicular failure)- but he has one undescended testicle, so couldn't this be the cause of the slightly elevated FSH? One of his testicles has failed, so I could see why his FSH would be high. But it still doesn't account for the good teste. He had multiple surgeries as a child, and I just think scarring is a high possiblity. But I would have to do some serious convinicing to get my husband in for a transrectal ultrasound, lol.

I don't think these are low volumes (I think we always get numbers a bit below and above 2ml). But maybe rdleela can give us some reference numbers from her experience :winkwink:

Well, I'm no expert but I'm thinking the undescended testicle is probably the cause of his fertility issues. And I'm also thinking that if there was a ton of scarring in his testes, they would have picked that up on the ultrasound they did on him (in our case for example they did see some "strange areas" and concluded that DH might have had an infection as a child). But then I'm not sure where the scarring would be exactly after the surgeries he had...

In the end I think it's always good to get a 2nd opinion.


----------



## rdleela

Our samples are always less than 2.0, I think averaging around 1.5-1.7...and actually, they never picked up any scarring on any ultrasound - it wasn't until the surgeon went in and did the surgery that he found all the scarring!


----------



## NikkiR143

rdleela said:


> Our samples are always less than 2.0, I think averaging around 1.5-1.7...and actually, they never picked up any scarring on any ultrasound - it wasn't until the surgeon went in and did the surgery that he found all the scarring!

But the repair didn't help the sperm count? Or it did? I see you're still going through with IVF & ICSI. I'm just trying to avoid this route at all costs, but I'm just kidding myself. I know this is what we'll end up having to do regardless.


----------



## rdleela

Well, actually, I haven't done an official announcement on here yet, but here goes: just found out we are pregnant naturally, 14 months after DH's surgery...I was waiting on my period to call in to start procedures for IVF#2 in January, when, low and behold, AF never showed! Our last sperm count was at our failed IVF in October and it was 400,000 motile.

Looking back, I am SUPER happy we got the surgery, because even though Dh's sperm count is super low, he never had to have TESE's for our IVF cycle - he can provide a fresh sample - just need one, right? (I, too, was trying to avoid IVF at all costs - just ended up getting really impatient, losing hope and decided to do IVF anyways.)

And obviously now that we ended up with a natural pregnancy, I'm a bit biased and think a repair surgery is WELL worth it - I do caution though it takes TIME to get the surgery booked, time to see if successful, many many tries to get as LUCKY as we just did. So, I think in the end, it was great for us, but it may not be great for everyone. And you really don't know until you choose a path. I'm rambling but it's really not cut and dry with the path we decided to take.


----------



## Stinas

rdleela - OMGGGGGGGGG YAYYY!!!!!!! No way! Im soooo excited for you!!!!! Yayy!!! Congrats!!!


----------



## rdleela

Lol thanks!!! ...I think I need to just go post it on my journal already, I'm having a tough time transitioning to the "other side" - I want to be very respectful to all the ladies still in the trenches - if anyone wants to wish me a congrats, come on over to my journal, I'll try to post the deets later tonight...


----------



## NikkiR143

rdleela said:


> Lol thanks!!! ...I think I need to just go post it on my journal already, I'm having a tough time transitioning to the "other side" - I want to be very respectful to all the ladies still in the trenches - if anyone wants to wish me a congrats, come on over to my journal, I'll try to post the deets later tonight...

WOW, this just made my day! I'm soo happy for you! You just totally confirmed my decision to get a 2nd opinion and keep fighting for natural. Please post the link to your journal. I'm still trying to figure this blog out and not sure how to find it. I'd love to read through it!


----------



## NikkiR143

This is the reply I got from his urologist today RE: an internal ultrasound...

Hi Kris,

There is no imaging study we can order that would rule out obstruction 100%. The structure is so small that ultrasound, CT, and MRI will not give us an answer. If you really want an answer to that, the best thing to do is a testicular biopsy, which can be done in the operating room. It would take about 1 hour under anesthesia and involve a 1 inch incision in the scrotum. Of course, to verify cost of this, you would have to call member services, the number on the back of your card.

Best,

Wayland


Do you guys recommend having him do the testicular biopsy? I've heard mixed reviews of this procedure. I've also seen girls post about a sonogram helping determine if an obstruction is a possiblity? And he didn't mentioned anything about the transrectal ultrasound. Hmm...


----------



## rdleela

My hubby had a testicular biopsy - that's how we confirmed that he did have sperm being produced and they were good - that's why we decided to go with they vasectomy reversal to repair. Click on "my infertility journal" below in my signature, it will take you to my journal, and if you read through my posts, you'll read all about the tests and procedures my DH had done.

I hope everyone can experience the good fortune we've been handed!


----------



## NikkiR143

rdleela said:


> My hubby had a testicular biopsy - that's how we confirmed that he did have sperm being produced and they were good - that's why we decided to go with they vasectomy reversal to repair. Click on "my infertility journal" below in my signature, it will take you to my journal, and if you read through my posts, you'll read all about the tests and procedures my DH had done.
> 
> I hope everyone can experience the good fortune we've been handed!

Thank you! I think we're going to go ahead with the testicular biopsy. It's covered with our insurance, so why not? I think it's an important next step to rule out obstruction 100%. One other question- was your DH's FSH elevated at all?


----------



## rdleela

nicolew412 said:


> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> My hubby had a testicular biopsy - that's how we confirmed that he did have sperm being produced and they were good - that's why we decided to go with they vasectomy reversal to repair. Click on "my infertility journal" below in my signature, it will take you to my journal, and if you read through my posts, you'll read all about the tests and procedures my DH had done.
> 
> I hope everyone can experience the good fortune we've been handed!
> 
> Thank you! I think we're going to go ahead with the testicular biopsy. It's covered with our insurance, so why not? I think it's an important next step to rule out obstruction 100%. One other question- was your DH's FSH elevated at all?Click to expand...

I think the biopsy is a worth-while procedure. It was quick and hubby was only hurting for a day or two. It took us FOREVER to get the results back, that was torturous.

My DH's hormone levels were all normal. He had a lot of white blood cells in his sperm samples prior to his surgery, and like I said, low volumes, and of course, zero sperm. He had a scrotal u/s, which found nothing, then the biopsy which confirmed he was producing sperm, and then a transrectal u/s, which also showed nothing, but which confirmed for our urologist that the blockage was down in the testicular area, not anywhere after the prostate. So that's when we decided to go with the vasectomy reversal, which was $6000, but because he needed the surgery through no fault of ours, our provincial health care paid for the surgery. So that was a no-brainer for us, as free was a lot less expensive than IVF! I guess, to put it better, it was worth the gamble for us to put off IVF for a year and try the surgery first. IVF was always our "back pocket" treatment.


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## Stinas

Nicole if you do the biopsy or tese make sure
You freeze what you find just in case.


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## Briss

ladies, has anyone had DH's karyotype test coming back abnormal? what does it mean for men with low sperm count? is there any chance that with such results he can still have a biological child with ICSI/IMSi (or maybe also + pgd testing?) or is this the end of the road? 

I am very confused and not sure I understand how karyotype testing explains low sperm count. we have been TTC for 3.5 years and no natural BFP. we had 2 IVFs and the first natural IVf resulted in chemical pregnancy; the stim IVf did not work because I have high FSh so did not respond to stim and the only mature egg did not fertilise. we are trying to see if we could get DH's numbers up but all the lifestyle changes did not help so the urologist suggested doing karyotype testing. how is it going to help?


----------



## NikkiR143

Thanks ladies! This is what the urologist wrote back...

"Well, if you absolutely want to rule out obstruction we should plan on a biopsy. The flip side of that argument is that if you decide to proceed with IVF, the testicular sperm retrieval technique is about the same invasiveness as the biopsy, so you would have 2 procedures instead of one. But if you absolutely need to rule out obstruction to have peace of mind to do IVF, we need to do a biopsy. Just let me know what you decide.

Wayland

Now I'm worried again! I know urologist doesn't think it's obstruction because he has a high FSH (but I still think this is because of his one undescended testicle, not because of his good one), and he had a couple sperm in his semen. BUT...I've read online even if there are some sperm in the semen, there can still be an obstruction. But I don't want the testical surgeries making his infertility even worse. Decisions, decisions. I have my first appt with the fertility specialist on January 10th. I may wait till then to her his/her advice. I know the urologist is the expert in the male infertility, but he/she may be able to give me good advice. And good idea, I will ask about freezing what they find!


----------



## AuCa

Briss said:


> ladies, has anyone had DH's karyotype test coming back abnormal? what does it mean for men with low sperm count? is there any chance that with such results he can still have a biological child with ICSI/IMSi (or maybe also + pgd testing?) or is this the end of the road?
> 
> I am very confused and not sure I understand how karyotype testing explains low sperm count. we have been TTC for 3.5 years and no natural BFP. we had 2 IVFs and the first natural IVf resulted in chemical pregnancy; the stim IVf did not work because I have high FSh so did not respond to stim and the only mature egg did not fertilise. we are trying to see if we could get DH's numbers up but all the lifestyle changes did not help so the urologist suggested doing karyotype testing. how is it going to help?

I'm surprised they didn't do this beforehand. We had to have all the genetic testing done before they would even let us go for IVF (karyotype, Y chromosome microdeletion, cystic fibrosis).
Abnormal karyotype can cause male infertility, and men who have this have an increased risk of producing genetically defective embryos.

How is it going to help? It won't really "help" per se, but if it turns out your husband has a karyotype issue they might suggest you do PGD (I'm guessing it depends on what the issue exactly is).


----------



## AuCa

nicolew412 said:


> Now I'm worried again! I know urologist doesn't think it's obstruction because he has a high FSH (but I still think this is because of his one undescended testicle, not because of his good one), and he had a couple sperm in his semen. BUT...I've read online even if there are some sperm in the semen, there can still be an obstruction. But I don't want the testical surgeries making his infertility even worse. Decisions, decisions. I have my first appt with the fertility specialist on January 10th. I may wait till then to her his/her advice. I know the urologist is the expert in the male infertility, but he/she may be able to give me good advice. And good idea, I will ask about freezing what they find!

It's a tough decision. I think it is what he says - if you need to rule out obstruction 100% for your peace of mind, and your hubby is ok with doing a TESE twice, then maybe you should do it.

Personally, we opted against the mTESE as a diagnostic tool when that decision had to be made (and my husband doesn't even have high FSH).
I don't remember the exact numbers, but the percentage of men whose infertility is caused by an obstruction is quite low. But I know that you have a real suspicion due to all the surgeries he had....
My thinking was - the chances they will find obstruction are really low; if they do find obstruction, the surgery and recovery times will be significant and will delay everything by months, even a year maybe; even if his sperm count goes up, chances are high that we will still need IVF in the end (but then rdleela is an example that it is possible; however, I'm very pragmatic and think she got very lucky and this is not the norm).

But again, it's a very personal decision, and I think there is benefits and disadvantages both ways.


----------



## rdleela

I did get VERY lucky...but there are lots of men who get vasectomies, then get vasectomy reversals (same surgery we did) and also end up getting lucky like we just did. I'm not TOO much of a rare bird...BUT a lot of those couples end up doing IVF in the end anyways, too...

I would say, if you guys are young and can afford at least two years to see if a (potential) surgery to repair a (potential) blockage works, then go for the biopsy. If you aren't willing to wait two years, then I say go straight to IVF. I do like the way we did it, though, because even though we ended up trying IVF, we did have sperm in ejaculate after the surgery and we actually got to TTC every month; even though our chances were super low it would work, I was fully prepared to do IVF if it was taking too long or his sperm count never got high enough. Anyways, rambling again, but it is a very tough decision to make, and you don't even know yet if it is truly obstructive or not...and sounds like urologist is thinking it's non-obstructive, so you really gotta take that into consideration.


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## Briss

AuCa, thank you! our FS would not even refer DH to a urologist and did not ask him to do any tests except for SA so we had to go privately and mainly because our two IVFs failed. with my high FSH stim IVf is just not an option I am so hoping the urologist can offer a solution is we could rule out the genetic issues. 

has anyone had PGD? I am wondering if there is any point doing PGD in a natural IVf where you only got one egg from the dominant follicle?


----------



## sharon99

Good luck, Olive!! I'll have my fingers crossed for you this week. Lots of distractions are good! And yeah, I noticed that too about the kids with a stable father already in their life- like they felt less of a void. I felt a little sorry for the kids feeling so guilty about their curiosity, though. It does seem pretty natural to be curious, even if you're not looking for a "father figure". Did you guys choose an open ID donor or a totally anonymous donor? (or are you using a known donor? I don't think I know). We went with an ID option donor, so when the kid turns 18 they can contact the sperm bank for contact information. This was threatening to me (and DH) at first, but hopefully in 18 years I'll feel more confident as a parent! :) I've also saved the pictures of the donor I downloaded, so I'll show those to the kid at some point. My husband didn't want to see those, and seeing grownup pictures also freaked me out at first. 

Do you listen to podcasts at all? I listen to them ALL THE TIME (seriously, if anyone has any suggestions, I burn through them). Anyway, there's one called Creating A Family, and it's about infertility & adoption, and they have lots of episodes with tips on how and when to tell donor-conceived kids. 

rdleela, congrats! I love hearing success stories, to know there is life outside the trenches!

AFM, AF came yesterday and I have never been so happy to see her! I am hoping that I won't miss ovulation this month. We are getting on a plane just after midnight on New Year's Eve, and by the calendar it's juuuuust possible that I could have my IUI that morning. It would be great to have it, and then spend a week relaxing in Florida afterwards!


----------



## AuCa

Briss said:


> AuCa, thank you! our FS would not even refer DH to a urologist and did not ask him to do any tests except for SA so we had to go privately and mainly because our two IVFs failed. with my high FSH stim IVf is just not an option I am so hoping the urologist can offer a solution is we could rule out the genetic issues.

Wow, that's crazy that all you did was an SA. If you take it a step further, I'd have them run all the tests - also do the Y chromosome microdeletions, ultrasound, and check his hormones (hoping he did at least get that done?)
The genetic testing is simple (just blood/saliva tests), but it took a few weeks to get back to us.

Not sure about natural IVF and PGD....


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## Briss

the urologist did not think DH had obstructions, he asked for hormones and said they were fine. he said no need for Y chromosome microdeletions and only asked for karyotype test. I am so worried of what the result could be.


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## NikkiR143

Stinas said:


> Nicole if you do the biopsy or tese make sure
> You what you find just in case.

Urologist actually just told me they can't do both surgeries at the same time- biopsy + surgical sperm extraction- so it will be 2 separate surgeries. I guess they can't freeze what they find during the biopsy. Maybe because it goes straight to lab for testing and it's not possible to save it? That's why he suggests only the surgical sperm extraction w/ ICSI + IVF, so avoid 2 surgeries when the possiblity of an obstruction is so low anyway. But I still want it, lol. Especially since it's covered with his insurance.


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## Stinas

My clinic wouldn't let us do the TESE and IVF/ICSI same day just in case they didn't find anything. 
If anything is covered, DO IT! lol It sucks paying for all of this out of pocket! I am still getting septembers bills! lol


----------



## NikkiR143

AuCa said:


> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> Now I'm worried again! I know urologist doesn't think it's obstruction because he has a high FSH (but I still think this is because of his one undescended testicle, not because of his good one), and he had a couple sperm in his semen. BUT...I've read online even if there are some sperm in the semen, there can still be an obstruction. But I don't want the testical surgeries making his infertility even worse. Decisions, decisions. I have my first appt with the fertility specialist on January 10th. I may wait till then to her his/her advice. I know the urologist is the expert in the male infertility, but he/she may be able to give me good advice. And good idea, I will ask about freezing what they find!
> 
> It's a tough decision. I think it is what he says - if you need to rule out obstruction 100% for your peace of mind, and your hubby is ok with doing a TESE twice, then maybe you should do it.
> 
> Personally, we opted against the mTESE as a diagnostic tool when that decision had to be made (and my husband doesn't even have high FSH).
> I don't remember the exact numbers, but the percentage of men whose infertility is caused by an obstruction is quite low. But I know that you have a real suspicion due to all the surgeries he had....
> My thinking was - the chances they will find obstruction are really low; if they do find obstruction, the surgery and recovery times will be significant and will delay everything by months, even a year maybe; even if his sperm count goes up, chances are high that we will still need IVF in the end (but then rdleela is an example that it is possible; however, I'm very pragmatic and think she got very lucky and this is not the norm).
> 
> But again, it's a very personal decision, and I think there is benefits and disadvantages both ways.Click to expand...

Thank you for the good advice! It's difficult with Kaiser- because I always think they're just trying to save money, without having the patients best interest in mind. 2 surgeries will cost them a lot more, as opposed to 1. Whereas they'll make a lot of money off us if we go with IVF. But the obstruction repair (if there was one) is covered under his insurance. I'm 25, he's 30. I feel like we have time. If anything, it just gives us more time to save for IVF while still being pro-active in our search for the problem. Ya know? I def need to talk to DH more about it and see what he thinks. He's the one who has to go through all these surgeries- poor guy :-( This sucks! How's everything going with you? Do you have a journal? I'm obsessed with stalking azoo journals now.


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## NikkiR143

Stinas said:


> My clinic wouldn't let us do the TESE and IVF/ICSI same day just in case they didn't find anything.
> If anything is covered, DO IT! lol It sucks paying for all of this out of pocket! I am still getting septembers bills! lol

Biopsy and all obstruction repairs would be covered, if by some miracle there is an obstruction. But TESE, IVF, and ICSI are not. That's why I think it's worth it to do biopsy first, just to rule out obstruction 100%, eventhough urologist seems pretty confident that isn't the problem. But doctors are wrong sometimes too! I just don't want the biopsy to impair his inferility even more. & I know, the $$ is insane. My friend posted a funny quote on my pinterest today https://www.pinterest.com/pin/283867582736258975/

"I'm sorry I spend your entire college fund trying to conceive you". 

lol


----------



## NikkiR143

rdleela said:


> I did get VERY lucky...but there are lots of men who get vasectomies, then get vasectomy reversals (same surgery we did) and also end up getting lucky like we just did. I'm not TOO much of a rare bird...BUT a lot of those couples end up doing IVF in the end anyways, too...
> 
> I would say, if you guys are young and can afford at least two years to see if a (potential) surgery to repair a (potential) blockage works, then go for the biopsy. If you aren't willing to wait two years, then I say go straight to IVF. I do like the way we did it, though, because even though we ended up trying IVF, we did have sperm in ejaculate after the surgery and we actually got to TTC every month; even though our chances were super low it would work, I was fully prepared to do IVF if it was taking too long or his sperm count never got high enough. Anyways, rambling again, but it is a very tough decision to make, and you don't even know yet if it is truly obstructive or not...and sounds like urologist is thinking it's non-obstructive, so you really gotta take that into consideration.

& you said your DH's undescended testicle surgeries are what caused the obstruction, right? Hmm...mine only had surgery on one side though. I highly doubt obstruction is the problem, but I still want to do biopsy regardless. I'm 25, he's 30. I feel like we do have time, although I have read that chances of a successful IVF go down even by your late 20's, so I don't really have that much time. So much to think about.


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## Stinas

Nicole lol thats a funny one!!&#8230;but soooo true!!!


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## rdleela

nicolew412 said:


> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> I did get VERY lucky...but there are lots of men who get vasectomies, then get vasectomy reversals (same surgery we did) and also end up getting lucky like we just did. I'm not TOO much of a rare bird...BUT a lot of those couples end up doing IVF in the end anyways, too...
> 
> I would say, if you guys are young and can afford at least two years to see if a (potential) surgery to repair a (potential) blockage works, then go for the biopsy. If you aren't willing to wait two years, then I say go straight to IVF. I do like the way we did it, though, because even though we ended up trying IVF, we did have sperm in ejaculate after the surgery and we actually got to TTC every month; even though our chances were super low it would work, I was fully prepared to do IVF if it was taking too long or his sperm count never got high enough. Anyways, rambling again, but it is a very tough decision to make, and you don't even know yet if it is truly obstructive or not...and sounds like urologist is thinking it's non-obstructive, so you really gotta take that into consideration.
> 
> & you said your DH's undescended testicle surgeries are what caused the obstruction, right? Hmm...mine only had surgery on one side though. I highly doubt obstruction is the problem, but I still want to do biopsy regardless. I'm 25, he's 30. I feel like we do have time, although I have read that chances of a successful IVF go down even by your late 20's, so I don't really have that much time. So much to think about.Click to expand...

Hernia repair in groin area as a newborn, AND one undescended testicle as a toddler. That testicle never ended up forming, and his one testicle only half-formed. The surgeon said it was a very difficult surgery because of this. We were amazed the surgery even worked at all and he had sperm return! So he's working with one-half of one testicle!


----------



## NikkiR143

rdleela said:


> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdleela said:
> 
> 
> I did get VERY lucky...but there are lots of men who get vasectomies, then get vasectomy reversals (same surgery we did) and also end up getting lucky like we just did. I'm not TOO much of a rare bird...BUT a lot of those couples end up doing IVF in the end anyways, too...
> 
> I would say, if you guys are young and can afford at least two years to see if a (potential) surgery to repair a (potential) blockage works, then go for the biopsy. If you aren't willing to wait two years, then I say go straight to IVF. I do like the way we did it, though, because even though we ended up trying IVF, we did have sperm in ejaculate after the surgery and we actually got to TTC every month; even though our chances were super low it would work, I was fully prepared to do IVF if it was taking too long or his sperm count never got high enough. Anyways, rambling again, but it is a very tough decision to make, and you don't even know yet if it is truly obstructive or not...and sounds like urologist is thinking it's non-obstructive, so you really gotta take that into consideration.
> 
> & you said your DH's undescended testicle surgeries are what caused the obstruction, right? Hmm...mine only had surgery on one side though. I highly doubt obstruction is the problem, but I still want to do biopsy regardless. I'm 25, he's 30. I feel like we do have time, although I have read that chances of a successful IVF go down even by your late 20's, so I don't really have that much time. So much to think about.Click to expand...
> 
> Hernia repair in groin area as a newborn, AND one undescended testicle as a toddler. That testicle never ended up forming, and his one testicle only half-formed. The surgeon said it was a very difficult surgery because of this. We were amazed the surgery even worked at all and he had sperm return! So he's working with one-half of one testicle!Click to expand...

Wow, that is amazing! Did they centrifuge any of his semen samples before the repair? I know you said no sperm was found, but just wondering if they spun the sample?


----------



## rdleela

Nicole - no idea! He had multiple counts done with a zero count, no idea if they spun the samples or not...


----------



## tulip11

Idk what to do ? whenever I feel something positive so somewhere news from other side makes me and my hubby upset. Since yesterday we got two news of two sister in laws who got their BFP'S one is expecting 2nd and other one 3rd baby. I try to control myself but somewhere i fail I want to cry ..... I just want to go away from all this stuff truly I badly want baby now but may be I cant be mom like others are .:cry::cry::cry:


----------



## Olive333

Sharon - we chosed an open donor. We wanted to give the choice to our child if he/she wanted to know more about them. We don't have the choice to see adult pictures to protect the donor. Once I become pregnant then the bank will send me all of the information of the package that we purchased. There is only limited information to downlod and the rest is view only. I can't remember, but have you decided to go the donor on your next IUI?


----------



## NikkiR143

tulip11 said:


> Idk what to do ? whenever I feel something positive so somewhere news from other side makes me and my hubby upset. Since yesterday we got two news of two sister in laws who got their BFP'S one is expecting 2nd and other one 3rd baby. I try to control myself but somewhere i fail I want to cry ..... I just want to go away from all this stuff truly I badly want baby now but may be I cant be mom like others are .:cry::cry::cry:

I'm so sorry! The worst part is that you want to feel happy for them but it's so hard. Yesterday was a hard day for me too- I must've cried 10 times throughout the day. Some are harder than others. You will be a mom- and this journey will just make you stronger.


----------



## Stinas

tulip - Its really really hard. No matter how happy you are for them, there is always that pit in your stomach&#8230;.then you feel guilty for having that pit in your stomach. It just sucks. This is when you realize who your true friends are. I have learned who is truly happy for me and who is not. To my surprise, the ones who were not or didn't really care, were the ones I went above and beyond for. The ones that freaked out&#8230;.were the ones I barley know. Opens up your eyes a bit.
One day you will be able to shout it from the rooftops. When that day comes, don't care about anyone or anything&#8230;.just be happy&#8230;don't let anyone rain on your parade.


----------



## sharon99

Tulip, I totally understand where you're coming from. I hate that feeling of sadness/happiness/guilt at feeling jealous that happens to me. My younger brother called the other week and said, "I have some great news!!"- and my stomach dropped & immediately got the cold sweats-- "I got a promotion at work!" And then I was probably way too excited and congratulatory about that. And then of course, I felt guilty about how sad I would have been if they were pregnant. 

Olive, yes, this will be our first donor IUI. It could have been last month, but I choked under pressure & missed my ovulation. Any pain involved with it at all? I've heard it's not bad at all- just some slight cramping perhaps. 

Deafgal, hope you're doing OK. Thinking of you.


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## Olive333

Sharon - I felt no pain during it, except being uncomfortable with the speculum. The only pain was ovulation pain during the day, I was barely able to walk at some points. The nurse was very gentle and she just had a hard time positioning the cervix, but after that was super easy. I didn't feel the actual insemination.

I'm still waiting to test on Sunday.


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## BrandyRelax

sharon99 said:


> Tulip, I totally understand where you're coming from. I hate that feeling of sadness/happiness/guilt at feeling jealous that happens to me. My younger brother called the other week and said, "I have some great news!!"- and my stomach dropped & immediately got the cold sweats-- "I got a promotion at work!" And then I was probably way too excited and congratulatory about that. And then of course, I felt guilty about how sad I would have been if they were pregnant.
> 
> Olive, yes, this will be our first donor IUI. It could have been last month, but I choked under pressure & missed my ovulation. Any pain involved with it at all? I've heard it's not bad at all- just some slight cramping perhaps.
> 
> Deafgal, hope you're doing OK. Thinking of you.

I agree with Olive - no pain during the IUI except for inserting the speculum, the IUI was done before I even knew it!

And ovulation was insanely painful - pain for about 5 hours, but I was on Femara, and I understand ovulation is more painful on Femara. I had 2 "good looking follicles" (according to my doctor) on my right side, and that was the painful side.

I'm still in the TWW, so still waiting for the positive test to tell me it's all worth it!


----------



## sharon99

Brandy, I didn't know you were in the TWW, too! Good luck! And good luck tomorrow, Olive!!! And thank you both for the IUI reassurances. My doctor wants to try 3 natural cycles before moving on to meds, so I doubt I'll have any ovulation pain (I usually don't).


----------



## BrandyRelax

sharon99 said:


> Brandy, I didn't know you were in the TWW, too! Good luck! And good luck tomorrow, Olive!!! And thank you both for the IUI reassurances. My doctor wants to try 3 natural cycles before moving on to meds, so I doubt I'll have any ovulation pain (I usually don't).

Thanks Sharon! It's the first IUI, so I don't really know what to expect.

My doctor decided to go medicated (Femara) on the first IUI because he knows I respond well to medication, and I have a late ovulation (usually day 18-19) and short luteal phase, so having the medication will help control that and manage any issues as well.

And Friday's the day... we'll see how it goes!


----------



## deafgal01

sharon99 said:


> Deafgal, hope you're doing OK. Thinking of you.

I'm doing ok, just taking it one day at a time. The bfns was a blow to my confidence and I'm still convinced something's going on with my body, but I don't know what. The clinic said they could do a blood test but I didn't want that to ruin my Christmas as it would be final and there's no debating whether the bfns home tests are not good enough. So I agree with DH that I should wait til Jan to see what af does. If nothing or still wacky, then I will follow up with a blood test to figure it out. If it returns to normal for that cycle, then I guess we'll be trying to find a way to afford more sperms and another go at IUI. I dread having to do more needles- DH and I both hated having to do that to get to this point.

I still lurk my journal, but I've pretty much abandoned bnb for the most part. It's necessary to give myself that break as it was consuming me too much and having a negative effect on my moods. I'm finally starting to be happy again in the past few days.


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## Olive333

deafgal - I just has a negative HPT yesterday 15dpiui and it was negative and I still don't have AF. I'm hoping that I could still be pregnant, but I know is just that hope. I took clomid and ovidrel and it was my first IUI, so I'm not sure if it's normal to get AF late.

BrandyRelax- I hope you get your BFP!

Sharon - Good luck with your IUI!!!


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## sharon99

Deafgal, I'm sorry things are still wacky, but I'm glad you're able to regain some happiness. And Olive, it sounds like things are wacky for you at the moment, too! I don't know anything about those drugs and their side effects as I've never taken them... I will be thinking of both of you!!

Brandy, good luck on Friday! Bring us some good news! :) My luteal phase is short-ish too (10-11 days, usually), so if these 3 natural cycles don't work, hopefully the drugs will help with that for me, too.

To everyone else, Happy Holidays! Wishing everyone much joy and peace. And cookies. Which I'm eating right now. :)


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## BrandyRelax

Olive333 - sorry that the tests are coming back negative. I know for me, it takes 3 days off the progesterone suppositories before AF comes, so about 16 day LP compared to my normal 10 day.

sharon99 - just let your doctor know that you have a short LP, and he/she may put you on progesterone even though it's a natural cycle, just so you have the best chance possible. I was also on Femara which produces multiple follicles - I think because our IVF and FET cycles failed, he wanted to increase the odds, but if you've not had any cycles yet, your doctor may not want to risk multiples.

deafgal - we're here if you need us. I agree with sometimes needing a break from the forums and focusing back on how amazing you are as a person and all the good things in your life. It doesn't take away the disappointment of not being pregnant, but helps re-focus some positive energy so that when you are pregnant, you're already starting from a happy place!


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## gem10

I just want to wish all of u wonderful women a very Merry Xmas, or Happy Holiday.. I will think of each of you each time a family member asks when I am going to have kids. It already happened tonight. My own mother didnt even stand up for me, she just went along with it. Oh, all I have are granddogs. But Im sure she was caught off guard. Anyway, a New Year is approaching and I am praying it brings us good fortune. Love to you all.


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## sharon99

Happy Holidays to you too, Gem- and to everyone else! Yes, it would be nice to have a round-up of all the insensitive comments everyone heard over the holidays! Although Gem, I agree your mom was probably caught off guard. It can be hard to know how to respond in those situations, where everyone is laughing and having a good time. Possibly she was trying to deflect/protect your privacy by trying to make jokes? I don't know, but I could see my mom doing that. 

How are the IUIers doing? Thinking of all of you and hoping for good outcomes.

I had my first donor IUI today. It's a little early (CD 12), but I had a crystal clear + OPK yesterday, so I went with it. Not too bad. Very surreal experience, though, with my husband holding my hand while another man rooted around my nether regions to shoot yet another man's sperm into me. It's just about the very furthest thing from my idea of conception as possible. It's good timing, as we're leaving next week for Florida, so I can relax & not think about it for a week. After seeing my family, I'm sure I'll have 1 or 2 comments to add to the "insensitivity list". Speaking of, while I was waiting for my IUI today, the medical assistant was talking to me about her 2 kids, and she started complaining about how her 1 year old has a cold and she wasn't getting very much sleep. Is it just me, or should you not be complaining about your baby when you work at an infertility clinic?!?! 

And can I add one more rant? :) It is very cathartic for me to write these things out! Our Christmas was really nice, and we had a really fun, quiet day. But by the next day, I guess the bunches of pictures of happy kids I saw on Facebook got to me, and I had a little cry. Seems totally understandable to me, right? Sometimes I feel like I'm in a sci-fi movie, and my husband is a robot or an alien who has come to live with the humans. "What is this salty water coming out of your eyes?" And I have to explain, "It's called crying. It's something humans do when they're sad." It's like he couldn't understand why I might be feeling a little more sad around Christmas- it genuinely puzzled him. ?????


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## BrandyRelax

Unfortunately our IUI wasn't successful... on to the next month I guess. With only 25% odds of it working, I have to be realistic, that the odds weren't good, and it's probably not the end of the world, and it takes some tries.

For Christmas, our family is pretty small, and they all know what we're going through, so I was really lucky not to have anything to add to the list of insensitive comments.

Brandy


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## deafgal01

Mine had no comments about family- nothing.

My Christmas was ok. Just glad another holiday is over. Not sure what 2014 will bring as I am putting any baby plans on hold for a while to adjust changing jobs and saving up if possible for more tries. Most likely focused on trying to pay off other debts first to free up money for saving for baby.

Btw Sharon that is just rude. I do not think nurse and dr should complain about their kids in the room with us there.


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## Rainbow123

Fingers crossed for you Sharon!
I was exactly the same Sharon. I thought I was doing pretty well (for me!) until Christmas Eve. It is so easy for everything to get too much all at once when you're off guard! DH was working 'til 7pm, so I got to see LOTS of families when I went food shopping, then on the radio on the drive home there was a special shout out for the maternity ward at this hospital in UK and that set me off BIG STYLE! Was just driving along crying my eyes out feeling very bitter about our situation! Ho hum.

Sorry to hear this cycle wasn't successful for you Brandy and Deafgal. Fingers crossed for next cycles and massive hugs for you both :hugs: XXX


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## Olive333

Sharon - I hope you have a positive with your IUI. Have a great vacation :)

Brandy- I'm also out this month and since we were out of town I had to skip a month. I'm going to focus this month on losing weight to up my chances for February.


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## sharon99

Aw man. I'm so sorry to hear about the BFNs. Brandy, I'm trying to keep that in mind too- the odds of it working the first time around are small, and it takes most women several tries for it to work. I'll try to remember that in 2 weeks myself. :)

Deafgal, sorry to hear about the plans being put on hold. A new job sounds exciting, though! Wishing you lots of success and happiness at it.

Rainbow, thanks- I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a Christmas Cry!

And Olive, good luck with weight loss! My (unexpected) hiatus from trying last month actually turned out to be a welcome break from worrying. 

Wishing everyone a very Happy New Year!


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## Rainbow123

Happy New Year lovely ladies!

Has anyone had counselling before IVF/ICSI on the NHS? We've got our appointment through for 16th January to see a counsellor, but I'm a little confused as she left a message on my answer phone today. Apparently after we see her at 1pm we're seeing another counsellor at 2pm. Has anyone else had to see 2 lots of counsellors? 

Has anyone got any new year's resolutions? I'm thinking mine is going to be to spend more time on myself by doing lovely relaxing things to try and address my stress-headedness! 

Love to all :hugs: XXXXX


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## Olive333

Happy New Year to Everyone!!!

Sharon - When do you test? Good luck!


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## arzoo

Hello Everyone. Hopefully this year is the year we all realise our dreams. Sorry for the silence from my side was caught up. Last month has been emotionally draining with 2 deaths in the family and my father hospitalised. Glad to see the back of 2013. Now that other things hv settled down it back to teary eyes and sinking feeling every time I log into Facebook. 

Rainbow: we went for counselling on the NHS. We had only one session. I was not that impressed with the lady felt she was too mechanical. I am a big synic;). Hope ur experience is better.


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## bubumaci

arzoo - I am so sorry to hear about your losses last month! I really feel with you (lost my paternal Grandma + my Mother in May last year)!!! Please take the time you need to grieve. And I really hope that your Father recovers soon. <3


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## sharon99

It's a BFN for me too. :( And man, I have the killer cramps today to prove it! At least it waited until (pretty much) the end of my vacation. And I'm glad I went ahead and had the pina coladas! 

Arzoo and Bubumaci, I'm sorry for your losses and your tough year.

I hope everyone else is doing well!


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## Olive333

Sharon - I'm sorry it didn't take. I can relate. I should start my next cycle in about 2 weeks to go in for my base ultrasound a try a second time.


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## bubumaci

Sharon :hugs:


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## MrsG30

Happy New Year Ladies.

Hope 2014 is our year, and the same for all of you who are still on the azoo journey.

I am still lurking just keeping quiet as nothing to report. Waiting for our donor sperm to be ready.

love to you all- think abut you all often xx


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## Rainbow123

Arzoo - I'm so sorry to hear about the awful time you've been having. 
I'll not expect anything wonderful when I go for our session on Thursday then! So far I've found it difficult to feel encouraged as I've spoken to the counsellor on the phone and had an answer phone message and they've both set me on edge - she doesn't seem like the kind of person I want to talk to about this!

Sharon - Hope you're ok lovely. Must be a blow :hugs: Fingers crossed for next time XXXXXX

Mrs G - Do you have any idea how long it's going to be before your donor sperm is ready? 

Lots of love to one and all :hugs:
XXXXXXXXX


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## MrsG30

Hi hun,

End of month were hoping, there taking extra samples r consistency to make sure its deffo icsi we need and not ivf or iui.

hows things with u? xxx


Rainbow123 said:


> Arzoo - I'm so sorry to hear about the awful time you've been having.
> I'll not expect anything wonderful when I go for our session on Thursday then! So far I've found it difficult to feel encouraged as I've spoken to the counsellor on the phone and had an answer phone message and they've both set me on edge - she doesn't seem like the kind of person I want to talk to about this!
> 
> Sharon - Hope you're ok lovely. Must be a blow :hugs: Fingers crossed for next time XXXXXX
> 
> Mrs G - Do you have any idea how long it's going to be before your donor sperm is ready?
> 
> Lots of love to one and all :hugs:
> XXXXXXXXX


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## Rainbow123

Getting so close for you! So exciting!
After being told we could be getting mTESE before the end of 2013 (yeah right!) we're only just going for counselling on Thursday and then goodness knows when they're planning to get DH in for his mTESE. It's totally frustrating to have no clue, but in a way it's nice to have a bit more time as actually we'd like to save a little more money before they give us our only try on NHS. I don't want to be panicking that we won't have enough money for a second round if we're not lucky first round!
X


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## gem10

Hello ladies,

Havent been on in a bit. Just catching up with everyone.

Arzoo-I am so sorry for your losses in 2013. I am hoping 2014 will bring you nothing but joy. I know how hard it is to lose a family member. It takes time. Just know we are here for you if you need to vent

Sharon, Deafgal and Brandy my heart aches for each of you and your BFNs. Its such a tough thing to deal with. Take this time to focus on yourself and doing the things that make you happy. I know how bad it hurts, and the pain lessens with time but never truly goes away. 

Sharon, I understand your frustration with the nurse. Anytime I talk to my one friend she ALWAYS complains about being pregnant. "Oh, you just wait to see what you have to look forward to...my boobs are huge, I'm so bloated and uncomfortable" I said, Actually, I wouldn't mind that at all! I actually snapped a week or two ago. She was telling me about her cousins best friends sister (you know how that goes) who had been trying to get pregnant forever and they tried a different route than IVF and now shes pregnant with twins. And she says, so if this cycle doesn't work for you again you should look into it. I mean, she has even more issues than you. 

I said, I'm sorry, what issues do you think I have? As far as I know we have an issue with my husband, and I can get pregnant, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Also, I would like to stay positive and hope that this cycle WILL work this time. 

Anyway, I decided to take a break from everyone. Not just for that, but because of the constant questions, baby pictures, announcements, etc. I deactivated my facebook account and told my closest friends they won't be hearing from me for a few weeks while I go through my cycle. I figure I have spent the last year going to their baby showers, congratulating them on their announcements and telling them how adorable their infant is. Well, now its my time. I want to focus on me and staying stress free. So I have tuned everyone out. And I have to say, its really quite liberating! I say give it a try. Your friends will understand.

So I started stimms on Friday. I almost didn't because believe it or not my clinic almost forgot about me. They basically forgot that I was starting this month. So had I not been persistent leaving several messages over holiday break I may have had to wait another month. I would have flipped my lid! I am getting a little annoyed with them. They keep trying to convince me to freeze the embryos rather than do a fresh transfer. Does anyone understand why? Everyone I know who does IVF does a fresh transfer. I feel like freezing is putting our already fragile embryos (testicular sperm) though another grueling process. I kind of feel like they're doing it for money. That means I have to pay to freeze and pay for another month of meds and office visits. I keep trying to push for fresh, but I guess I will have to wait and see. They say since they've upped my meds they don't want me to overstimulate. I still feel like its a bit strange. Does anyone know anything about fresh vs. frozen?

Anyway, my hubby's mTESE is next Tuesday the 21st. I am just praying they find something again. We have spent the last three months taking vitamins, eating healthy, etc. so I am praying for a positive result. My retrieval is the 22nd.

I also purchased meditation CDs. They are from Circle and Bloom. You listen to one each day that corresponds to where you are in your cycle. I find that it really relaxes me and takes away and stress I might be feeling. I recommend it for anyone who plans on doing a cycle in the future.

Anyway, just wanted to catch up with each of you. Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers. Hoping we have the strength to keep going through this. 2014 has just begin, let's hope for a happy ending. xoxo


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## rdleela

Rainbow, I sure hope you get to do a TESE soon! The wait is soooo frustrating!

Gem, re: fresh vs. frozen transfer - there is always a risk going into a cycle that you might HAVE to convert to a freeze all cycle (over-stim with really high estridoil levels and risk of OHSS). In my case, for our failed cycle in October, looking back, I wish we would have frozen my only two embryo's instead of doing a fresh transfer. My estridoil levels went pretty high on trigger day (17,000), but it wasn't high enough for my RE to cancel my fresh cycle (in his opinion). I've read studies that say estridoil levels over 5000 at trigger day shouldn't do a fresh cycle...

My body just was not accepting of embryo's with estridoil levels that high...I actually started spotting early and got my period while on progesterone support (very weird for me) cause my body was just ready for my period and not accepting of embryo's.

So that's why, looking back, it feels like it was a waste to throw those embryo's in with estridoil levels that high, when they could have been frozen and we could have tried a FET, where my body would have been primed for embryo transfer. Going into the cycle, I was petrified it would get converted to a freeze-all, because there was nothing more I wanted than two embryo's in me!!! But looking back, I understand why a freeze-all could be beneficial.


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## Stinas

Gem - My first BFP cycle was a fresh transfer&#8230;..it did end up in mc, but that was a chromosomal issue. This pregnancy was a FET. 
I think it all depends on your body. If you body is all out of whack after ER, then yes, I do believe a FET might be better, if not, why not do a fresh. 
All the sperm we used was from a TESE in 2012.


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## gem10

Thanks ladies. I guess I will just have to wait and see how my body is towards the end of my cycle. I can accept if I HAVE to freeze. I just found it stressful to wait another month not knowing the grade of our embryos and whether we would have anything to transfer. I guess I am just excited to get those embryos in ASAP! We have waited since our last BFN in September and it has felt like forever! Also, I guess part of me feels like since I didnt do fresh last time, maybe if we did fresh this time it would work. But like you said Stinas, it all depends on whether or not I can handle it. At this point, I will do whatever I have to for this to work!

Rdeela thanks for sharing your experience too. It always helps to hear from someone who has been through it rather than a doctor!


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## Stinas

Gem - They graded my embryos before freeze&#8230;..but when they thaw them out, the grade does/could change. 
Just go with the flow. Don't stress yourself out. Its hard to go through as it is, you don't need to worry anymore than you already do.


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## NikkiR143

Just an update ladies:

Finally saw a fertility specialist on Friday- January 10th. I was hoping he could answer a few more questions regarding my husband's diagnoses of cryptozoospermia and what the urologist has told him so far, but he said he specializes with the woman's side, so he basically put all the focus on me. 

Positive news- he said based on my age and the fact that (as far as we know right now) it's only male factor infertility, our chances of a successful IVF first round is 57%. I was really excited about this, because I was thinking it was only a 30 to 40% success rate. So I feel a bit more confident moving forward with IVF now. Another cool option that Kaiser has is if you choose to only have one embryo transfered (instead of multiple due to high-risk twin pregnancies), and it doesn't stick, they'll transfer another frozen embryo free of charge. I like that we have that option. They also freeze all additional good embryos forever, so when we're ready for a 2nd baby it's only 3k as opposed to another 15k for implanting the frozen ones. I guess it all depends on how many embryos we end up with. I'm still learning the IVF lingo so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge on the subject. I got for a blood test to check hormone levels on the 2nd day of my next period, so any day now. Then they'll do a sonogram within the next couple of months so rule out fallopian tube blockage. We aren't doing the IVF cycle until July or September of 2014 (we're in a wedding this summer, and have a vacation planned so we're waiting till after all that). But I'm glad I have a bit more information now. Now we just need to decide if my hubby will go through with the testicular biopsy to exclude obstruction 100%. And we need to see if testicular sperm extraction is really necessary for the IVF, or if we can get his numbers high enough so we can take the sperm directly from his semen. He has been taking vitamins and changed his diet dramatically, so hopefully this helps! Looking forward to what the next few months has in store for us.


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## MrsG30

Em,

shitty q i know but whats back up if nothing found? will you cancel cycle or have back up? any idea when? xxx


Rainbow123 said:


> Getting so close for you! So exciting!
> After being told we could be getting mTESE before the end of 2013 (yeah right!) we're only just going for counselling on Thursday and then goodness knows when they're planning to get DH in for his mTESE. It's totally frustrating to have no clue, but in a way it's nice to have a bit more time as actually we'd like to save a little more money before they give us our only try on NHS. I don't want to be panicking that we won't have enough money for a second round if we're not lucky first round!
> X


----------



## Rainbow123

We were planning on having a donor back up, however since DH spoke to the nurse at the IVF clinic in November, we've been totally confused as she doesn't seem to think we'll be able to combine purchasing our own sperm with an NHS IVF she basically contradicted everything the urologist had said, then said she'd ring back the next day and never did. We decided to wait until my FS was back off long term leave, so will be asking her when I see her this Friday. Taking what the nurse said with a pinch of salt, but at the same time wondering why she said that as she's got more experience of it all than we do.. 
Hoping to also get a time scale when I see FS on Friday, but as she's been out of the loop for a while I'm guessing she'll have to contact Leeds. All a bit up in the air at the moment!
X



MrsG30 said:


> Em,
> 
> shitty q i know but whats back up if nothing found? will you cancel cycle or have back up? any idea when? xxx
> 
> 
> Rainbow123 said:
> 
> 
> Getting so close for you! So exciting!
> After being told we could be getting mTESE before the end of 2013 (yeah right!) we're only just going for counselling on Thursday and then goodness knows when they're planning to get DH in for his mTESE. It's totally frustrating to have no clue, but in a way it's nice to have a bit more time as actually we'd like to save a little more money before they give us our only try on NHS. I don't want to be panicking that we won't have enough money for a second round if we're not lucky first round!
> XClick to expand...


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## arzoo

Good luck Gem. Fingers crossed for you. Hope the mTese goes fine.

We are at the same stage as you, and if there were no issues at my end, we would have had our mTese at the same time as you. We are waiting to sort things out at my end and then maybe go for mTese in Feb / March.


----------



## Rainbow123

Everything crossed for next Tuesday Gem! :hugs: XXXXXXXXX


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## sharon99

Just popping in to say GOOD LUCK on Tuesday, Gem! Fingers crossed! And the no social media sounds like a wonderful idea! I was just talking with a fertility-challenged friend last night & said that the worst is when someone announces a pregnancy, and then announces a really stupid name for the baby. 

Olive, good luck on the start of next cycle! So they do an ultrasound at the very beginning of your cycle? 

Happy weekend, everyone!


----------



## Rainbow123

sharon99 said:


> Just popping in to say GOOD LUCK on Tuesday, Gem! Fingers crossed! And the no social media sounds like a wonderful idea! I was just talking with a fertility-challenged friend last night & said that the worst is when someone announces a pregnancy, and then announces a really stupid name for the baby.
> 
> Olive, good luck on the start of next cycle! So they do an ultrasound at the very beginning of your cycle?
> 
> Happy weekend, everyone!

Regarding the stupid names for babies, a couple that live near us - who accidentally conceived their child - called him Ziggy! What will they call their next child... Zaggy? 

So glad it's the weekend, bring on the booze!

XXX


----------



## Mikihob

sharon99 said:


> Just popping in to say GOOD LUCK on Tuesday, Gem! Fingers crossed! And the no social media sounds like a wonderful idea! I was just talking with a fertility-challenged friend last night & said that the worst is when someone announces a pregnancy, and then announces a really stupid name for the baby.
> 
> Olive, good luck on the start of next cycle! So they do an ultrasound at the very beginning of your cycle?
> 
> Happy weekend, everyone!

Especially news like Kim Kardashian and Kanye West's accidental pregnancy and then they name their baby North West. I think North is a cute, unique name but seriously?? You can't research potential baby names without seeing that.


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## sharon99

The worst one in my circle (also an accidental pregnancy) is "Doctor". Yes, first name Doctor. I get it, you're a Doctor Who fan, but that's what middle names are for!!!

Yes, bring on the booze! :)


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## Stinas

Weird names are soooo annoying to hear! Like really people&#8230;.think of this poor kid that will have to explain its parents stupidity for their whole life.


----------



## gem10

So hubby had his mTESE today, and it did not go as we expected. Last time the embryologist took it back to the lab/office and searched and searched and found sperm. This time he "combed it" for an hour, and found nothing. I guess he had to leave to go do transfers at another clinic. So they put the tissue in an incubator overnight and they will look again in the morning. Has anyone ever heard of this? Has anyone ever had success 24 hours after mTESE? I'm freaking out because I guess we just expected them to find something this time because we had success last time. But now they are telling me I need to decide tonight about back up donor. I'm really not ready for this. I was SO excited to be pregnant, but now that this has popped up I almost want to tell them to freeze my eggs and we will try again in the summer. But, then what if they don't find anything again and these stellar eggs that I've been working on for three months are no good after thawing. 

I don't know, I guess I need some words of advice or encouragement from people who know and understand. When you made the decision for donor, did it feel right in your heart? Did you just know? Or was it a tough decision? My husband is on board and super supportive of anything I want to do. I just want him to be happy too, I wanted him to have a baby with his genes. But he is saying no matter what it will be ours.

I'm all over the place. I'm sorry, I just am totally thrown off and confused. Hubby is sleeping, I am trying to prepare for possibly being out of work for three days next week, and mentally preparing for retrieval tomorrow. Just a mess. :(


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## arzoo

Oh so sorry to hear the bad news Gem. I was really looking forward to your success story to give me strength. We are only going to have the MTese in March.so cannot provide you any suggestion. But regarding donor. I am not ready yet and if we are unlucky then I will ask them to freeze my eggs. If the doctor gives us hope that another time we might b lucky then we will try MTese another time. I fear I will never be in a state to accept the donor route.


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## Stinas

Gem - Im sorry you didn't get the news you wanted! Its frustrating! When we did our TESE July 2012, the Urologist that did it found 2 sperm&#8230;&#8230;we were devastated! Next day I got a phone call from the IVF clinic telling me we had 3 vials of sperm to use for IVF, all mostly from the tissue. 
I didn't use donor, but after our MC in May, DH wanted to go directly to donor, but I wanted to try again with our last couple embryos we had. If that didn't work, then I was ready for donor. Thankfully it did. 
If you are not ready for donor, freeze your eggs and do it when you feel the time is right. If your not 100%, you really should not do it.


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## bubumaci

Gem, I am so sorry you don't have results yet. In my opinion, if the clinic is OK with freezing, then they must have some experience with it? Perhaps, like for Stinas, they will find enough in the tissue.

Either way - I would not make a hasty decision about anything / go with something I am not 100% sure about. Unless you feel completely at ease with a decision, I would wait!

:flower:


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## BrandyRelax

Gem - I know how you feel. My hubby had the same thing. They found a few sperm in the first sample, and none in the second. They did find more in the tissue in the fist sample than they thought they would.
For donor sperm, it is something that takes some discussion before you'd be okay with it. And at this stage, you would need to pick out a donor today, which is far too rushed, in my opinion. Do what is right, but ultimately, when we settled on donor sperm, it was looking at it as half adoption.


----------



## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> So hubby had his mTESE today, and it did not go as we expected. Last time the embryologist took it back to the lab/office and searched and searched and found sperm. This time he "combed it" for an hour, and found nothing. I guess he had to leave to go do transfers at another clinic. So they put the tissue in an incubator overnight and they will look again in the morning. Has anyone ever heard of this? Has anyone ever had success 24 hours after mTESE? I'm freaking out because I guess we just expected them to find something this time because we had success last time. But now they are telling me I need to decide tonight about back up donor. I'm really not ready for this. I was SO excited to be pregnant, but now that this has popped up I almost want to tell them to freeze my eggs and we will try again in the summer. But, then what if they don't find anything again and these stellar eggs that I've been working on for three months are no good after thawing.
> 
> I don't know, I guess I need some words of advice or encouragement from people who know and understand. When you made the decision for donor, did it feel right in your heart? Did you just know? Or was it a tough decision? My husband is on board and super supportive of anything I want to do. I just want him to be happy too, I wanted him to have a baby with his genes. But he is saying no matter what it will be ours.
> 
> I'm all over the place. I'm sorry, I just am totally thrown off and confused. Hubby is sleeping, I am trying to prepare for possibly being out of work for three days next week, and mentally preparing for retrieval tomorrow. Just a mess. :(


Hi gem. My DH is currently on month two of a three month FSH/HCG injection cycle. He will do a second three month cycle starting in March and do a final SA in June. He has decided, with my support, that he doesn't want to do the mTESE because the idea of surgery "down there" freaks him out. He is worried about side effects, infections, or the high probability that nothing will be found. He suggested adoption. I brought up donor sperm. I let him know that I WANT to experience the pregnancy. Some women want babies and don't mind if they don't carry them or not, but I want to. They have these cool face match programs now at some sperm banks that allow you to upload a pic of your DH and they will send you results with Low, Med, and High matches. 

DH and I are planning on going through Fairfax Cryobank. We have already done a search and have a couple of High and Med matches. If his SA in March comes back zero, than we will pay $294 to have unlimited access for a year plus a free vial. They have consultants who can look at your DH's picture and the donor's and help you see if it is close and what the outcome might be. 

Going the donor route is a hard decision. It's not ideal, but sometimes it's the only option. I think the hardest part is deciding on whether or not to tell the babies about it. 

Sigourney Weaver had it right with this comment from the movie Baby Mama, "There is no wrong way to make a family"

We are all here for you. :hugs:

P.S. I watch Baby Mama, What to expect when you are expecting, and The Back-Up Plan A LOT. Kinda baby-centric. :)


----------



## Rainbow123

How frustrating for you Gem :nope: But don't lose hope! We've been told that a lot of the time they find sperm in the tissue in the next 24 hours.
DH and I have decided that we will be doing the mTESE but if they don't find any/we don't get many, we will be using donor sperm. To begin with donor sperm was completely out of the question for my husband and it felt totally wrong in my head too, but that was about 9 months ago now, and we've had a lot of time to think about it and come to the conclusion we have. I agree with the other ladies that you should wait until you are sure that donor sperm is the way you want to go, as you don't want to be feeling negatively about things when you are pregnant. 

I love that Sigourney Weaver quote by the way! Thanks for sharing!

Love and hugs :hugs: XXXXX


----------



## rdleela

Hi, Gem, I wanted to pop by and say I'm so sorry you got bad news this second go-around, and it must be really tough to make this decision now and so quickly, no matter which route you choose! I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you on the donor decision, but the girls have done a great job in answering you! Xoxo


----------



## gem10

Hello to all of you amazing women. I have been in some pain and out of commision today from the retrieval. But I could not go to bed without popping on to thank each and every one of you for your support. This was the only place I could turn yesterday and you all came through to give me advice and your experiences. I cannot thank you enough for that. We had some good news today. They retrieved 14 eggs from me and at the time of retrieval we had 7 sperm. Before we left the embryologist felt confident he could find enough sperm for each egg. While they did seem hesitant for me to use all of DH testicular sperm due to quality and precentage of success I was persistent that I wanted to give it all we had this time. My hubby is in a lot of pain and I cant see doing that again tp him. If it doesnt work this time I can accept donor route. We already picked a back up donor last summer, although I feel that none really looked like my hubby, so we went with the healthiest match instead. I pray that I get good news tomorrow and that those little eggs fertilize and bring me my baby. So I want to thank all of you for your words of advice and encouragement. And if I could ask for one more thing, say a prayer for us that this one works. Goodnight my amazing friends. Much love to you all.


----------



## Stinas

Gem - Thats great news!!! You and all our lovely Azoo ladies are always in my prayers!!!


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## sharon99

Oh Gem, what an emotional roller coaster you've been on!! I'm so glad they found some sperm! I will cross everything for you that your eggs fertilize. Big, big hugs for you and I'll pray that you get good news tomorrow! 

Donor sperm was NOT an easy decision. For the first few months we talked about it, I had dreams that I was pregnant with a monster inside of me. But the more we've talked about it, I feel better and better about our decision. We just want a baby to love, and I think love is never a bad thing to bring to the world. Whether it has your husband's genetics, your genetics, a total stranger's genetics... you're bringing love and happiness into the world. Sigourney Weaver can do no wrong in my book- I love that quote! Mikihob, you are brave to watch all those baby movies! I avoid them like the plague, and I get mad when my favorite TV shows pop a pregnancy on me (like Scandal! But with a name like "Scandal", I guess pregnancies are to be expected.)


----------



## bubumaci

Oh, Gem - I am so glad to hear that they were able to give you some good news before you went home and my fingers are tightly crossed that you get some fantastic fertilisation news today!!
Rest up, let your body recuperate ... in a few days, you will be PUPO :) :hugs:


----------



## gem10

Thank you so much ladies! I will keep you posted today, hopefully with more good news! Bubumaci, I didnt know what PUPO meant, just looked it up...what a great saying! Thats a good phrase to get me through the 2ww!


----------



## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Thank you so much ladies! I will keep you posted today, hopefully with more good news! Bubumaci, I didnt know what PUPO meant, just looked it up...what a great saying! Thats a good phrase to get me through the 2ww!

I just looked it up too. I like it! :thumbup:


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## arzoo

Great news Gem, thrilled for you. :) Cant wait to hear the rest of the happy story. So glad for you. praying hard for you.. wishing you all the best


----------



## Rainbow123

What fantastic news Gem! Can't wait to hear how those little eggies and spermies get on with their little dance together! Fingers and toes crossed and big prayers for you lady XXXXX


----------



## MBABY2014

Rainbow- what is your hubby's FSH? Mine is 16 and wondering if that is high?

Does anyone know if 16 is considering high and/or worry some?


----------



## NikkiR143

gem10 said:


> Thank you so much ladies! I will keep you posted today, hopefully with more good news! Bubumaci, I didnt know what PUPO meant, just looked it up...what a great saying! Thats a good phrase to get me through the 2ww!

Wish you all the luck in the world!!


----------



## snd80

:hi: Girls! 

Wanted to pop in and say good luck to Gem and let you all know I've been stalking from the side lines, but I'm still here with all you lovely ladies!!!

:hugs: to all!!!


----------



## Olive333

sharon99 said:


> Just popping in to say GOOD LUCK on Tuesday, Gem! Fingers crossed! And the no social media sounds like a wonderful idea! I was just talking with a fertility-challenged friend last night & said that the worst is when someone announces a pregnancy, and then announces a really stupid name for the baby.
> 
> Olive, good luck on the start of next cycle! So they do an ultrasound at the very beginning of your cycle?
> 
> Happy weekend, everyone!

Yes, I had my base ultrasound on Tuesday. When do you have your next cycle?


----------



## gem10

So far we have 5 eggs fertilized, 3 are grade 1 (perfect embryos) and 2 are grade 2 (average) out of a total of 12. More may fertilize soon, they will call again tomorrow! 

I was hoping for higher numers but I am SO excited about the quality. This is much better than last time. Last time we had 1 grade 1, 2 grade 2 and 1 poor. So I am happy about that. 

Praying that these little guys continue to grow and develop for Monday. Keep praying, its working!!! Much love ladies!


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## gem10

Snd80 it looks like you are having success too!! Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers!


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## Rainbow123

MBABY2014 - My DH's FSH was 14.8 when they last tested him, which is not particularly high. The urologist said that he is in the 'grey area' meaning that because it is not in the 20s there is a chance they will find some sperm when they do the mTESE. Are you guys thinking of getting a mTESE?
XXX


----------



## Stinas

Gem those are some good numbers!


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## MBABY2014

Hi there
Thanks for getting back to me!
Yes we are- in fact it's on Thursdsy!
I am just SO nervous
My hubby has the biopsy, TESE and possible blocksge correction if there is in fact a blockage.
I go off BCP the same day and then if all goes well IVF. His urologist seems very positive!
So you heard 20 and below there is a good chance?


----------



## MBABY2014

gem10 said:


> So far we have 5 eggs fertilized, 3 are grade 1 (perfect embryos) and 2 are grade 2 (average) out of a total of 12. More may fertilize soon, they will call again tomorrow!
> 
> I was hoping for higher numers but I am SO excited about the quality. This is much better than last time. Last time we had 1 grade 1, 2 grade 2 and 1 poor. So I am happy about that.
> 
> Praying that these little guys continue to grow and develop for Monday. Keep praying, its working!!! Much love ladies!




GEM- wow! What a great story, it is truly inspiring!! I wish you the best if luck and hope you have some beautiful embys to transfer!

I was wondering what you hubby's diagnosis was as well as his FSH??

Thanks!


----------



## BrandyRelax

snd - good luck on your cycle. Looks like it's going well so far!

Gem - those are great results! Have they guessed whether they will do a day 3 or day 5 transfer?

AFM - I just wanted to share with all of you that I got a BFP on our dIUI#2! It's still a very new discover and anything could happen, but I am so excited about it, I wanted to share!

Best of luck to everyone else in their cycles!


----------



## Rainbow123

Good luck for Thursday Mbaby! Our urologist thinks it's about a 40% chance of finding sperm if FSH is lower than 20 so that's a good chance I feel. Do you live close to the hospital or will you be staying over in a hotel? Let us know how you get on. Will be thinking of you on Thursday xxx


----------



## snd80

Congrats Brandy!!! :happydance:

I didn't say anything on here about my cycle cause I didn't wanna seem to be rubbing it in to anyone still in limbo, but I really have been following everyone quietly... and I think of all you girls all the time! :hugs:

AFM- One of my embabies went abnormal yesterday afternoon (said it developed a 3rd nuclei or something?) but the other 6 are chuggin along great! I'm starting to get really excited. Transfer set for Tues. :cloud9:

Hope everyone else is ok!!!


----------



## MBABY2014

Rainbow123 said:


> Good luck for Thursday Mbaby! Our urologist thinks it's about a 40% chance of finding sperm if FSH is lower than 20 so that's a good chance I feel. Do you live close to the hospital or will you be staying over in a hotel? Let us know how you get on. Will be thinking of you on Thursday xxx



THANKS!!! FINGERS CROSSED!! 
We live in NYC so we are literally 3 blocks from the hospital- I'm nervous for his recovery as well!! There are just so many components that have to work, so I'm trying to figure 1 step at a time!!

When is yours scheduled for Rainbow?
Any sucess stories with mTESE on this forum?


----------



## rdleela

Best of luck Snd and Gem! Thinking of you ladies!

CONGRATS BRANDY!!!!

And good luck Sharon and Olive and Mbaby! Wow, so much going on!


----------



## sharon99

Wow, so much good news on here! That makes me very happy. :) Yay, Gem!! That is wonderful news! 

Brandy- YAY!! Big congratulations, I hope you're just basking in happiness right now. 

SND, I don't think sharing good news is "rubbing it in"- I for one LOVE to hear the good news- it is a beacon of hope and helps me be more hopeful about my own happy ending. Congratulations, and please keep us updated!

Good luck, Mbaby! We used to live in NYC too- but the noise & craziness got to us! I hear you guys are having a bitter cold winter...

Olive, we're not quite cycle buddies then- I had my 2nd dIUI on Wednesday. I have a much more positive feeling this time than last time around. I don't know, I just feel more at peace with our decision. I'm still a little uptight & emotional (I SOBBED at this "Kid President" video I watched last night), but am also feeling calm and, dare I say- excited? :)


----------



## MBABY2014

sharon99 said:


> Wow, so much good news on here! That makes me very happy. :) Yay, Gem!! That is wonderful news!
> 
> Brandy- YAY!! Big congratulations, I hope you're just basking in happiness right now.
> 
> SND, I don't think sharing good news is "rubbing it in"- I for one LOVE to hear the good news- it is a beacon of hope and helps me be more hopeful about my own happy ending. Congratulations, and please keep us updated!
> 
> Good luck, Mbaby! We used to live in NYC too- but the noise & craziness got to us! I hear you guys are having a bitter cold winter...
> 
> Olive, we're not quite cycle buddies then- I had my 2nd dIUI on Wednesday. I have a much more positive feeling this time than last time around. I don't know, I just feel more at peace with our decision. I'm still a little uptight & emotional (I SOBBED at this "Kid President" video I watched last night), but am also feeling calm and, dare I say- excited? :)


SHARON- good luck, I always say go with your gut feeling!!! 

NYC is freezing- think it was about-10 with wind chill yesterday!!!


----------



## gem10

Brandy, congratulations! What exciting news!!

MBaby my hubby was born with undescended testicles. He had surgery around 5yrs old to correct the problem. From his first SA at 18 to his last at 35 they all showed zero sperm. I dont know exactly what his FSH was, but I know the doc said his numbers were normal, its just that the factory wasnt working. 

We had two more fertilize overnight so we are up to 7. My transfer is scheduled for Monday! I hope I havent upset anyone with my updates, SND you have me thinking now. I just hope that with each story of success we hear it brings us hope of our own. Still got a long way to go before we know if ours will be a happy ending. But I will keep thinking Im PUPO!!!


----------



## MBABY2014

Gem- got it
So even with a 'non-working' factory the TESE was successful? That makes me feel happy and gives me hope for Thursday!!

Did they give you any reason why the 1st embie didn't implant as it was a grade 1? I'm thinking of you and hope next week is a lucky week for us both!!


----------



## gem10

Yes, exactly. And dont get upset if they dont find anything during surgery. Both times they found nothing in surgery. It took our embryologist 8 hours of searching to find sperm both times. I know the anticipation must be killing you. Stay positive. I will keep you in my prayers!!!

As for the first time, they said its probably the quality of both egg and sperm. I guess there is less of a chancr of testicular sperm embryos implanting. This.time they are suggesting we put in three! That scares me bc of.my heart shaped uterus, but I am willing to try it if the doctor thinks its necessary. I also think changing my diet helped a lot this round to improve the quality of my eggs. I hope this helps!! Let me know if you have any other questions. I am wishing you the very best of luck this week!!!!!!


----------



## MBABY2014

sharon99 said:


> Wow, so much good news on here! That makes me very happy. :) Yay, Gem!! That is wonderful news!
> 
> Brandy- YAY!! Big congratulations, I hope you're just basking in happiness right now.
> 
> SND, I don't think sharing good news is "rubbing it in"- I for one LOVE to hear the good news- it is a beacon of hope and helps me be more hopeful about my own happy ending. Congratulations, and please keep us updated!
> 
> Good luck, Mbaby! We used to live in NYC too- but the noise & craziness got to us! I hear you guys are having a bitter cold winter...
> 
> Olive, we're not quite cycle buddies then- I had my 2nd dIUI on Wednesday. I have a much more positive feeling this time than last time around. I don't know, I just feel more at peace with our decision. I'm still a little uptight & emotional (I SOBBED at this "Kid President" video I watched last night), but am also feeling calm and, dare I say- excited? :)




gem10 said:


> Yes, exactly. And dont get upset if they dont find anything during surgery. Both times they found nothing in surgery. It took our embryologist 8 hours of searching to find sperm both times. I know the anticipation must be killing you. Stay positive. I will keep you in my prayers!!!
> 
> As for the first time, they said its probably the quality of both egg and sperm. I guess there is less of a chancr of testicular sperm embryos implanting. This.time they are suggesting we put in three! That scares me bc of.my heart shaped uterus, but I am willing to try it if the doctor thinks its necessary. I also think changing my diet helped a lot this round to improve the quality of my eggs. I hope this helps!! Let me know if you have any other questions. I am wishing you the very best of luck this week!!!!!!



Thank you so very much! I am staying positive!! Hubby and I have both been doing acupuncture and on supplements and cut out gluten ( or tried to) so I am trying to give us the best shot here!!!


Was everything healthy from your end?


----------



## Rainbow123

Congratulations Brandy, that's fantastic news!

Wow Gem, 7 embies! That's amazing! Will be thinking of you on Monday!

We're still waiting for our mTESE date MBABY. We've been told by the nurse that we should have an idea by some time before Valentine's Day. Will be nice to know so that we have a date to work towards. Glad your hospital is not too far away. It will make things a lot smoother being able to get home so easily. I'm really worried about after my DH's op as we will need to take a taxi, train and then plane journey for us to get home (rubbbbiiissh hehe!). 

I love seeing everyone's updates, so please don't stop sharing! Everyone's in the same boat, just in different stages of their journeys, so it's reassuring to know where everyone is in this process. I know we talk about feeling rubbish when we hear about people in our lives getting pregnant so easily, but I can promise you that I have never felt like that about anyone on here. I am always overjoyed to hear the happy endings for you lovely ladies and I can't wait to be able to share mine with you too!

Lots of love to one and all XXXXXX


----------



## rdleela

Rainbow, my hubby had his crazy vasectomy reversal surgery, we stayed one extra day in the hotel, then we hopped on a plane, including a layover, and then a 3 hour drive home from the airport. He was NOT a happy camper, and was SOOO glad when we got home. He said in the end, he was happy we came home when we did cause he'd much rather recover at home then the hotel room.

After his biopsy, we drove home 1.5 hrs and he could have worked the next day no problem. We never did get the TESE, but I think it's closer to the biopsy scenerio.


----------



## MBABY2014

Any updates Gem???


----------



## Stinas

Gem - Good like with transfer tom!!!!


----------



## MBABY2014

Wishing you the best of luck gem!!!


----------



## snd80

Good luck today Gem!!!


----------



## Rainbow123

rdleela said:


> Rainbow, my hubby had his crazy vasectomy reversal surgery, we stayed one extra day in the hotel, then we hopped on a plane, including a layover, and then a 3 hour drive home from the airport. He was NOT a happy camper, and was SOOO glad when we got home. He said in the end, he was happy we came home when we did cause he'd much rather recover at home then the hotel room.
> 
> After his biopsy, we drove home 1.5 hrs and he could have worked the next day no problem. We never did get the TESE, but I think it's closer to the biopsy scenerio.

DH already has chronic testicle pain, so I'm just a little worried it will make it loads worse :wacko: but I guess they'll have some nice painkillers for him which will hopefully help if it is awful. 
It's good to know that the biopsy wasn't so bad if that's what it's going to be like. We'll be staying over night in a hotel too so I'm hoping we'll be able to get a nice quiet train back to the airport and keep it as comfy as possible for him. 
Just been looking at holidays together. We should know in the next few weeks when he'll be having the mTESE, so I want something to fall back on and look forward to if it's not going to be until after the summer. 
XXX


----------



## Stinas

So im a little confused. Is a mTESE less invasive as a TESE? DH had a rough time with his TESE&#8230;they literally cut each ball in half. It was really bad.


----------



## Olive333

sharon99 said:


> Wow, so much good news on here! That makes me very happy. :) Yay, Gem!! That is wonderful news!
> 
> Brandy- YAY!! Big congratulations, I hope you're just basking in happiness right now.
> 
> SND, I don't think sharing good news is "rubbing it in"- I for one LOVE to hear the good news- it is a beacon of hope and helps me be more hopeful about my own happy ending. Congratulations, and please keep us updated!
> 
> Good luck, Mbaby! We used to live in NYC too- but the noise & craziness got to us! I hear you guys are having a bitter cold winter...
> 
> Olive, we're not quite cycle buddies then- I had my 2nd dIUI on Wednesday. I have a much more positive feeling this time than last time around. I don't know, I just feel more at peace with our decision. I'm still a little uptight & emotional (I SOBBED at this "Kid President" video I watched last night), but am also feeling calm and, dare I say- excited? :)

Wow so much going on on the site. 

Bradi - Congrats!!! It's nice to hear that it worked for you.

Sharon - I hope this is your month! I skipped a month so we will see what happens. I feel better about our decision, there are things that its sad to think about. We just want a family.

Good luck to everyone that is trying something (IUI,IFV)


----------



## gem10

Hello ladies! Thank you all for the well wishes. Sorry I didnt come on for a couple days. We were a little disappointed as 5 of our embryos we were told "may stop developing" and were "degenerating". We were really hoping to have something to freezd, but they told me.it was not wortg it to freeze them. So we had to good embryos left so we transferred them both. I am PRAYING that this works bc hubby doesnt feel like he can do the mtese again. He is in a lot of pain this time. So I am calling on everyone for prayers, we need all we can get. I am going to do my best to stay off the internet for the next two weeks. I find the 2ww to be the worst. But for now I keeping thinking I am PUPO! 

Snd good luck today! Mbaby only two more days to go! Keeping you in my prayers!!!


----------



## gem10

Sorry for all those typos! Stupid phone...cant type on it! We had *two good embryos. Lol


----------



## sharon99

Gem, I am crossing everything and praying for your lil' embryos! I hear you about hating the TWW- I hope you're able to do what you need to do to have a stress-free two weeks.

SND, your transfer is today, right? Good luck!!!

Olive, I'm with you- it's still sad when I reeeaallly think about it, but I think DH and I are slowly getting over the trauma of the diagnosis and actually making our decision. Like you, we just want a family.

AFM- no really, I hate the TWW. I was able to forget about it for the most part last cycle since I was on vacation, but not so much now. I freelance from home, so even though I'm really busy this week I still have a LOT of alone time. I feel like a lunatic- my emotions are all over the place. I don't know if anyone here is a 30 Rock fan, but this pretty much sums me up for the past few days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQadkcfyRk

And I'm like that WITHOUT hormone shots! I don't want to imagine me on Clomid.

Good luck to everyone else!!


----------



## sharon99

Oh, that embedded video doesn't seem to work- Well, you can google it- it's worth a google! :)


----------



## Mikihob

sharon99 said:


> Gem, I am crossing everything and praying for your lil' embryos! I hear you about hating the TWW- I hope you're able to do what you need to do to have a stress-free two weeks.
> 
> SND, your transfer is today, right? Good luck!!!
> 
> Olive, I'm with you- it's still sad when I reeeaallly think about it, but I think DH and I are slowly getting over the trauma of the diagnosis and actually making our decision. Like you, we just want a family.
> 
> AFM- no really, I hate the TWW. I was able to forget about it for the most part last cycle since I was on vacation, but not so much now. I freelance from home, so even though I'm really busy this week I still have a LOT of alone time. I feel like a lunatic- my emotions are all over the place. I don't know if anyone here is a 30 Rock fan, but this pretty much sums me up for the past few days:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQadkcfyRk
> 
> And I'm like that WITHOUT hormone shots! I don't want to imagine me on Clomid.
> 
> Good luck to everyone else!!


On Clomid I am EXACTLY like that. I started Clomid two weeks before our wedding because we wanted to be prepared knowing it could take months because of my PCOS, and I got upset because DH didn't want to look at my flowers I ordered. I was crying and crying and mad and telling him that he doesn't care, etc. Finally I came out of the bathroom and tried to play off like I didn't care and wasn't crying. DH says, "Are you done? This medicine is making you really moody." I told him I know. Lol. It sucks being over emotional. I guess it's part of the journey. 

Great video! Thanks for posting. 
Tina Fey starred in the movie Baby Mama and she was having emotional issues with the hormone injections there too. She is too hilarious for words.


----------



## Stinas

Good luck gem!!!!


----------



## BrandyRelax

Stinas said:


> So im a little confused. Is a mTESE less invasive as a TESE? DH had a rough time with his TESEthey literally cut each ball in half. It was really bad.

The mTESE is similar, just more delicate I think. From what I understand, mTESE is a smaller incision and they take out small pieces of tissue to examine under a microscope. My hubby only had 1 cut in the middle, and said he had pain on the right more than the left, because the doctor pulled the testicle on the right when he was doing the mTESE, so he had expected my hubby would have pain on that side.

I don't know about the TESE, but for the mTESE they do a general anesthetic, and it is about an hour or more for the surgery. 

My hubby didn't have much terrible pain after the two mTESE he had, and he healed very well, so I think it might depend on the doctor because I've heard horror stories, but our doctor is one of the best in the country (Canada not the UK), so I think that helped.

Best of luck!


----------



## Stinas

Brandy - ok I thought so. 
Yeah dh was in a lot of pain for a couple weeks. I'm happy we went with the more invasive surgery. I'm guessing with the mTESE they wouldn't have found as much sperm.


----------



## BrandyRelax

Stinas said:


> Brandy - ok I thought so.
> Yeah dh was in a lot of pain for a couple weeks. I'm happy we went with the more invasive surgery. I'm guessing with the mTESE they wouldn't have found as much sperm.

They usually find the same amount. The mTESE surgery takes longer because they are more strategic about what they take, and examine what they've taken under a microscope during the surgery so they have to take less tissue. The TESE has a higher risk of testosterone being a problem after the surgery because it is more invasive, although, they both carry that risk.


----------



## bubumaci

So, ICSI cycle #6 starting - started the belly-jabbing this morning. 
It looks like DH will have the TESE done. We would have preferred PESA (so needle aspiration) but apparently his testicles are too small and so the doctors have recommended doing the TESE. I am not sure if that is the right thing to do ... we have (with one exception) managed to have enough sperm in his sample on the day of ER to fertilise (once they had to thaw a frozen straw)... but our ER is concerned that it is the quality that is impairing our embryos and so he wanted to see if they could perhaps get more and better directly from his testicles. I feel so sorry for him - it is bad enough that he feels like he is half a man, not being able to reproduce naturally ... he is terrified of the surgery and the recovery afterwards ... :( What is the likelihood that we will retrieve better sperm from the TESE? Does anyone have any ideas?


----------



## MBABY2014

Hey ladies! Waiting for MTESE to start- feeling nervous!!

Prayers would be greatly appreciated!!

GEM- hope your doing well!!


----------



## arzoo

Good luck Gem and MBABY. Wish you all the best.

Good to hear all the success stories, helps me to remain positive.

Has anyone read anything on the size of the testicles and its relation to azo?


----------



## Stinas

bubu - Im not sure if they could get better sperm through TESE, but at this point why not try? DH had a hard time recovering. He was out of work for about a week, then when he went back, when he walked it seemed like he had a wedgie. lol poor guy. He will be ok tell him! 

mbaby - Good luck!!!!


----------



## gem10

MBaby thinking of you. Hoping all is well!


----------



## gem10

Sharon, that video is the best!!! Love it! So spot on..

I have had cramps on and off all day. I hate the 2ww, every twinge amd pain freaks me out!


----------



## gem10

MBaby thinking of you. Hoping all is well!


----------



## MBABY2014

So... We did ok!! A lot of sperm was found- motility is not great but we got the green light to move forward with the IVF!!

1 step down- about a 100 to go

Today was my last day of pills I should be going on S/M for bloodwork and starting of the meds!!

Thank you all for support and prayers!!


----------



## sharon99

Mbaby- yayyyy!!! I'm so glad it went well! I hope DH is recovering & not in too much pain! Good luck starting the meds!

Gem, glad you liked the video! I must have watched it about 15 times since I found it. It makes me feel better, because the TWW turns me into an absolute lunatic. I tend to spot before getting my period, so once I get around 8, 9 dpo I get nervous every time I have to pee! So my new thing is (TMI alert), just peeing as quickly as possible and casting nary a glance at the toilet. I AM TURNING INTO A LUNATIC! SOMEONE HELP ME, PLEASE!! :)


----------



## gem10

Congrats MBaby!! Thats fantastic news! Sounds like you had great success! Now comes the fun; )

Sharon I am going crazy too. Every day I say, theres no way it worked. Two hours later, Im nauseuas, I must be pregnant. I cant take it!! One week until beta, feels like a lifetime!!


----------



## Rainbow123

Hope everything's going well with your cycle so far bubumaci. When's your estimated egg retrieval day?

How's everything going for you MBABY? Are you doing ok with the meds?

Thinking of you all as always.

Lots of love XXXXX


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Rainbow - thanks for asking - so far nothing spectacular (occasionally feeling my ovaries, but that's normal :)). Currently, I would be triggering on Saturday 8th, with ER on Monday 10th - but my experience is that I usually have to stim for a day or two longer. We shall see. :)


----------



## MBABY2014

Hello. Ladies!

Everyone is so sweet!! 
Hubby is doing ok- sore and swollen, but he's so happy with the result!! He should be back at work by Tuesday!!

I just got my P ( AF) today!! Stopped the pill Thursday, I'm a day 2 start so going in for my BL and US Tom AM! I have no idea when I will start meds? Do you guys think Tom night?? I was looking forward to relaxing and having a few drinks at a superbowl party, but oh well!! Obv this is more important?

What's wveryones experience with occasional wine during stim? 
I'm a bit nervous about the needles- they look scary!!

I keep you all posted

How is everyone else doing?
Gem? What's your status?? Fingers crossed 4 u!


----------



## MBABY2014

Rainbow- when will you get a MTESE date??


----------



## MBABY2014

BUBU- are you using your hubby's soerm or DS??

Wishing you luck on this cycle!!


----------



## gem10

Mbaby, thats exciting!! I started stims two days after ultrasound. You are not supposed to drink while stimming, I know its tough, but it gets easier. I gave up red meat, caffeine and alcohol since September! I crave every now and then, but you really do get used to it. Glad ur hubby is feeling well. Its such a relief when they find swimmers!


----------



## bubumaci

MBaby - so happy about your results! :) Wishing your DH a speedy recovery!!
Oh - if you are day 2, then it should be today I imagine.
We are using DH's swimmers - so far, they have managed each time to find a few in the fresh sample (once they had to thaw a frozen straw) - but the doctor thinks that it might be the poor quality causing us not to get pregnant - so he will have TESE done on the day of ER this time. We did want to try PESE which is minimally invasive, but the urologist said that his testicles are too small and he feels the chances are greater if they do TESE. Poor man, I really hope that he doesn't suffer too much because of the surgery - but he has said that he will try it once in the hope that it will bring us our miracle baby... <3


----------



## MBABY2014

Good luck!! Do you have a scheduled date??


----------



## bubumaci

Well, it really depends on how I respond to the meds. If we stick to the schedule, then I would be triggering on the 8th, with our retrievals on the 10th (but going by experience, we usually extend the stimming by a day or two).


----------



## MBABY2014

bubumaci said:


> Well, it really depends on how I respond to the meds. If we stick to the schedule, then I would be triggering on the 8th, with our retrievals on the 10th (but going by experience, we usually extend the stimming by a day or two).



So it's official- I'm starting tonight
150 menopour
150 gonal F

I'm soooo nervous to poke my belly!
Should I do 1 shot on each side??

I'm assuming I will trigger around the 13? Does that seem right?


Hope everyone enjoys Super Bowl festivities!!


----------



## bubumaci

Good luck :) You might trigger earlier, depending on how your follies respond ... could be the 11th with retrieval on the 13th (earliest, I would imagine) ... but might well be triggering 13th with retrieval on the 15th.


----------



## Rainbow123

MBABY - How exciting! Hope your injections have gone ok! I'm a bit scared about that bit too, but I imagine you get used to it (hope so!). We should hopefully have a date for the mTESE by about Valentine's Day. I've been counting down the days since they told us it would be about a month 'til they could tell us, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be longer than that as I'm going stir crazy waiting! So much fingernail biting in this process isn't there? Hope you've enjoyed the Superbowl! XXX


----------



## MBABY2014

So it's began!!

It was so not a big deal- a tiny pinch!
Putting the meds together was the worst part of it

I keep you posted Rainbow

How is everyone else?

Should I expect any symptoms? Moody-ness?


----------



## bubumaci

Go MBaby :)

Well, had my first US this morning - tomorrow, I add the Orgalutran (prevent ovulation) and the doctor has said that we will trigger Saturday night for ER on Monday morning - still have an US on Saturday morning, but he was certain - so DH has his surgery Monday morning too ... It will be a loong day, but I really pray that the TESE will be worth it and, that my poor DH doesn't suffer too much from it!


----------



## arzoo

MBABY - Good luck. 

Glad to know it is not that scary. I am always very nervous thinking about the injections.

Keep us posted. 

Gem... thinking of you...Hugs


----------



## arzoo

Looking for some advice from the lovely ladies ....

I had my laproscopy and hysteroscopy last week, but they dint find any polyp or any other issues. My fertility consultant said it was ok to go ahead with the egg retrival in the next cycle (March).But I am wondering if I should delay by a month to let the body settle. But that would mean another month of delay , anxious waiting, and DH on another month of medicines and Easter break delaying egg collection etc etc.

Is it ok to go ahead in the first cycle soon after the procedure? Has anyone been in similar situation?


----------



## gem10

Arzoo, I had the same procedure in Aug and did my first IVF in September. I dont know if its: related, but that cycle did not work. I think it may help to give your body a rest, but who knows! You have to listen to your heart, womans intuition is the way to go!

So I had very light pink spotting today. Kind of freaking out! I am praying its implantation bleeding and not AF..any thoughts?

Mbaby, glad meds are going well. I usually get moody towards the end! Then bloated when the ovaries are nice an full! Best of luck!!


----------



## gem10

Bubumaci i will be praying for successful day Monday for you!!


----------



## arzoo

Gem, Hope it is implantation. Good luck. Praying.


----------



## sharon99

Mbaby, Rainbow, Bubumaci, Arzoo- Good luck to everyone! I'm not much help with IVF information, but I am thinking of all of you.

Gem- everything I have read about spotting seems to say... there is no definite answer about spotting. So many women have it in early pregnancy- it can be a good sign. I have really been enjoying my "Denial" policy this TWW, where I haven't been looking for spotting at all- I figure if AF is going to come, I'll wait til she comes in full force & there is no denying it. It seems like anything and everything can happen before a BFP, so I hope the spotting isn't stressing you out too much! Sending positive vibes your way!


----------



## gem10

Thanks Sharon! I have definitely been more relaxed this time around too. I dont think this can be AF, considering I am on progesterone which keeps it at bay. My last cycle it took a couple of days off the meds for it to show. So.I am just gonna keep saying this is a good sign! As long as it doesnt get worse, then I will freak!!Lol. When do you test, this Wed? I have been praying for you this round!


----------



## bubumaci

Thank you guys :)
Gem - Fx'd for you :) :dust::dust::dust:


----------



## BrandyRelax

MBABY2014 said:


> So it's began!!
> 
> It was so not a big deal- a tiny pinch!
> Putting the meds together was the worst part of it
> 
> I keep you posted Rainbow
> 
> How is everyone else?
> 
> Should I expect any symptoms? Moody-ness?

I wasn't moody on my IVF drugs, but was super moody on Puregon/Follistim (it was insane!). It all depends on your body and how it's working with it. Everyone is different. Best of luck!


----------



## arzoo

Thank you gem for your reply. It is always good to know that I am not having unnecessary anxiety. I think we will go ahead with our appointment on the 14 th and then decide.


----------



## gem10

Youre welcome arzoo. Like I said, it could be unrelated, just sharing my experience. I recommend red raspberry leaf tea. It is supposed to help condition your uterus. Just dont drink it once you start meds. 

As for me, more light brown spotting today. Totally freaked me out. Cant wait for Friday to get here!


----------



## MBABY2014

GEM- is Friday your blood test??


----------



## sharon99

Thank you, Gem!! I really, truly appreciate it. I *can* test tomorrow (it will be 14 dpiui), but I don't think I will- I teach all day Wednesday & I don't want to be (more) freaked out than I naturally am! So maybe Thursday, if AF hasn't arrived? If anything, I have really been trying to be kind to myself this TWW. So, I haven't been calling myself cowardly for not wanting to test and not checking obsessively for spotting like I normally do. I find it really hard to balance being hopeful with not wanting to feel like a fool. There were many months, before DH's diagnosis, that I was *convinced* I was pregnant- when of course I wasn't. I had this ugly feeling like I had been such a fool back then- and this TWW I'm really trying to let that go and not judge myself so harshly. I'm not sure if that makes much sense... it's just that I think all women, especially the women on this board, are brave for putting our hearts on the line, and I should forgive & love myself and try and open myself to the possibility of it actually working. 

Anyway, I will be thinking of you until Friday, Gem. I hope your brown spotting is a good sign, and I hope we both make this TWW our B*tch!


----------



## MBABY2014

Words of wisdom!!

Good luck S!!!


----------



## arzoo

Good luck Gem and Sharon.

Sharon, I had the same feeling of being a fool to keep thinking I was pregnant every month before DH's diagnosis. When I think back about those days, I sometimes get angry with myself for being such a fool back then to think I was pregnant.This just goes to show that though we are all different we still go through the same bunch of emotions. I am so glad I found you lovely ladies here. thanks to whom I am still sane and have courage to take the next steps


----------



## bubumaci

*lol* same here ... I kept thinking + hoping that the spotting was implantation bleeding *lol* ... and even though I know his diagnosis and know that there is no chance that we will get pregnant without ICSI - in the months where we have given my body a break after the fails / chemicals, I have still hoped against hope that AF won't turn up and that I am pregnant ... :)


----------



## Olive333

Well I had the dIUI on Monday and now the dreaded TWW. This time around it was very painful, so hopefully this will be the one.

I hope to hear good news from everyone that is waiting to test.


----------



## snd80

bubumaci said:


> *lol* same here ... I kept thinking + hoping that the spotting was implantation bleeding *lol* ... and even though I know his diagnosis and know that there is no chance that we will get pregnant without ICSI - in the months where we have given my body a break after the fails / chemicals, I have still hoped against hope that AF won't turn up and that I am pregnant ... :)

:haha: Me too!!! Every month I would see spotting I would get excited; now I know that I'm just progesterone difficent! And hubby and I joke about how when we were in high school and I'd be "late" how I'd be scared shitless thinking I was pg... and now I'm BEGGING to be pregnant!!! 

Ah!!!!!!!! To be young and dumb and not an infertility-medical junkie again would be SOOOOOOOOOO nice!!!! :rofl:


----------



## snd80

Olive- Good luck sweetie!!!

Man, how I had forgot how much the tww SUCKED!!!! Hopefully your's won't be that bad!!!! :dust:


----------



## MBABY2014

Good luck Olive!


----------



## Olive333

Snd80 and Mbaby - thanks for the good luck. In a week and a half I will find out the good news (hopefully).


----------



## Stinas

Good luck Olive & snd!!!


----------



## bubumaci

Fxd for you Olive! :dust::dust::dust:


----------



## babadespls

Hi Ladies, 

I have been following this thread for a while, and it's just so nice to know that I'm not the only one, but at the same time its terrible that its happening to anyone.

I just feel like I'm not coping with all this, and by the looks of it by reading all your posts, My Husband and I have a long road ahead.

In 2009 I had a laparoscopy as I have endometriosis. So when hubby and I started TTC shortly thereafter, and just nothing happened, we both, as well as my Gynae, assumed it was me. Eventually I convinced him to go have a sperm analysis in January 2014. SA came back with 0 count. Since then we have been for all the tests possible (except the genetics).

Results were that he has Non-Obstructive Azoospermia. His hormones are all fine except his FSH levels are 20, Our Urologist said that this indicates possible testicular failure and our next step is a biopsy, with the hopes that we find some sperm in there to freeze, and do IVF / ICSI.

I guess I'm just looking for success stories where they found viable sperm in a biopsy, when he had high FSH levels? My husband has made it clear that donor sperm is not an option AT ALL!!!

At this point, we have decided not to jump to the biopsy, he is taking Staminogro (which is a vitamin for men with low counts, not 0) for 3 months and will do another SA in May, if its still zero, we will do the biopsy. I think its very wishful thinking, but want to give it a chance?


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Baba,

I am so sorry that you have been hit by the Azoo train too :hugs:
Perhaps I will be able to tell you more after Monday (my DH has non-obstructive Azoo too ... but his FSH results are incredibly low - in fact the urologist was amazed that he had such normal results in every way, genetics, hormones etc and is still not showing any or many sperm in his SA - so not sure if our results will help, but I will definitely let you know).

I think for any of us on this journey, hope and wishful thinking are a big part of it - but until you know for sure, I wouldn't give up :hugs:


----------



## gem10

So AF showed in full force yesterday. Didnt even make it to my beta. Hubby still wants me to go, but I really dont see the point. This IVF is another :BFN: with no frosties. I cant believe we are back at square one...again. I am devastated. Now what?


----------



## bubumaci

Oh Gem, I am so sorry!
Do you have some :spermy: frozen from the TESE?
I really feel you, I do! Thing is - even with IVF, there are no guarantees and (based on my experience) you have to be lucky for it to be the jackpot first time around :( There are some that win right away and some who have to try a few times to get there...
Give yourself time to grieve, let yourself feel the sorrow - it is painful, it is taxing...

If you have some swimmers from the TESE, then at least DH won't have to go through the surgery again if and when you have another go. Give your body a couple of months to recover ... and try again :hugs:


----------



## gem10

No, we have nothing frozen. They barely found enough for all of my eggs this time. After doing this surgery twice, I just cant see DH doing it again. He has been in so much pain. I just really thought this one would stick. Not sure what to do for IVF three, this just sucks. :(


----------



## bubumaci

:( I am sorry! I suppose you will need to speak with your doctor, see what he says.
I hate this, for all of us! :( :hugs:


----------



## MoBaby

Hey ladies! I have a lot to catch up on here as somehow I unsubscribed from this thread.....
I just want to wish everyone dealing with Azo good luck and tell everyone that miracles do happen! Keep the hope and don't give up!! Me and DH were ready to throw in the towel and move on and did our last FET with little hope after 5 previous cycles and 2 mcs thinking it would be a failure....We even decided to switch REs and move to a different game plan. And here we are today! I am delivering in just 40 days viaa c-section!! We really can't believe all of this as it is a dream come true. A true miracle. We probably won't ever have the chance to do all this again. We feel so fortunate even though we went through some crazy trials over 2 years. I am wishing everyone luck and positive sticky vibes!!


----------



## rdleela

Gem, I am so, so sorry! I unfortunately have no words of wisdom - just really big internet hugs! Xoxo


----------



## snd80

SO VERY SORRY Gem!!! :cry:

:hugs:


----------



## Olive333

Gem - sorry it didn't happen this time around. I just hate that we have to go through so much pain.

Baba - We were not on board in the beginning with using DS, but after several months of grieving, we couldn't take it anymore. We decided to try 3 times, and if it didn't work then we could move on. We needed to at least say we tried. I don't know what will happen if it doesn't work for, but we will decide when the time comes. It is a very difficult journey and ofcourse making the decision is only the beginning of the challenges we will have conceiving a donor baby.


----------



## sharon99

I'm so sorry Gem. Just feeling heartbroken for you.


----------



## NikkiR143

babadespls said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> I have been following this thread for a while, and it's just so nice to know that I'm not the only one, but at the same time its terrible that its happening to anyone.
> 
> I just feel like I'm not coping with all this, and by the looks of it by reading all your posts, My Husband and I have a long road ahead.
> 
> In 2009 I had a laparoscopy as I have endometriosis. So when hubby and I started TTC shortly thereafter, and just nothing happened, we both, as well as my Gynae, assumed it was me. Eventually I convinced him to go have a sperm analysis in January 2014. SA came back with 0 count. Since then we have been for all the tests possible (except the genetics).
> 
> Results were that he has Non-Obstructive Azoospermia. His hormones are all fine except his FSH levels are 20, Our Urologist said that this indicates possible testicular failure and our next step is a biopsy, with the hopes that we find some sperm in there to freeze, and do IVF / ICSI.
> 
> I guess I'm just looking for success stories where they found viable sperm in a biopsy, when he had high FSH levels? My husband has made it clear that donor sperm is not an option AT ALL!!!
> 
> At this point, we have decided not to jump to the biopsy, he is taking Staminogro (which is a vitamin for men with low counts, not 0) for 3 months and will do another SA in May, if its still zero, we will do the biopsy. I think its very wishful thinking, but want to give it a chance?

Hey,

I found your post interesting as I feel like we have similar stories. My husband had a zero count on the initial SA's, but then they centrifuged his sample and found 5 sperm total (3 twitching, non-progressive, and 2 non-motile). All hormones normal except FSH is slightly high (although not THAT high). He has one undescended testicle (which is why i think his FSH levels are a bit high as this testicle is in his abdomen and dead). He also has a scortal hernia above his good testicle but the doc said this wouldn't affect his good testicle in anyway). Doc doesn't really recommend a biopsy because he thinks it's unexplained non-obstructive azoospermia. The fact he has some sperm in his semen and high FSH indicated non-obstructive, but he said he couldn't know 100% unless we did the biopsy. What is this vitamin that your DH is on? Something prescribed? My DH is taking Wellman's Conception. He's been taking it for about 2 months and cut out alcohol. It takes 3 months for the body to recognize the changes, so I think we're going to do one more SA in the next month or so. I'm still debating the biopsy. They've basically told us IVF with ICSI and surgical sperm extraction is our only hope, but if it were obstructive azoospermia we'd have way more options. I'd love to hear more details on your story!


----------



## NikkiR143

gem10 said:


> No, we have nothing frozen. They barely found enough for all of my eggs this time. After doing this surgery twice, I just cant see DH doing it again. He has been in so much pain. I just really thought this one would stick. Not sure what to do for IVF three, this just sucks. :(

Hi Gem,

I'm so sorry :-(

It really is such a gamble...some of us get lucky, and some of us don't. Just try to remind yourself everything happens for a reason. If you have the resources and patience to try again, I would. I wouldn't give up. Wishing you the best of luck in whatever you decide. 

- Nicole


----------



## arzoo

Hi Gem. I am so sorry for you. 

You are just another step closer to your dream. If I was you I won't give up if resources are not a constraint. As for dh being under a lot of pain. Well people undergo a lot of pain during child birth that does not stop people from having babies. 

When ever I feel low I always think about deb who started this thread and think maybe I will get lucky one day. 

Hugs


----------



## Mikihob

babadespls said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> I have been following this thread for a while, and it's just so nice to know that I'm not the only one, but at the same time its terrible that its happening to anyone.
> 
> I just feel like I'm not coping with all this, and by the looks of it by reading all your posts, My Husband and I have a long road ahead.
> 
> In 2009 I had a laparoscopy as I have endometriosis. So when hubby and I started TTC shortly thereafter, and just nothing happened, we both, as well as my Gynae, assumed it was me. Eventually I convinced him to go have a sperm analysis in January 2014. SA came back with 0 count. Since then we have been for all the tests possible (except the genetics).
> 
> Results were that he has Non-Obstructive Azoospermia. His hormones are all fine except his FSH levels are 20, Our Urologist said that this indicates possible testicular failure and our next step is a biopsy, with the hopes that we find some sperm in there to freeze, and do IVF / ICSI.
> 
> I guess I'm just looking for success stories where they found viable sperm in a biopsy, when he had high FSH levels? My husband has made it clear that donor sperm is not an option AT ALL!!!
> 
> At this point, we have decided not to jump to the biopsy, he is taking Staminogro (which is a vitamin for men with low counts, not 0) for 3 months and will do another SA in May, if its still zero, we will do the biopsy. I think its very wishful thinking, but want to give it a chance?

My DH and I started trying knowing that I had PCOS. I took Clomid for 6 months and the whole time we would joke how DH was "doing his part". It was a great way to take the edge off. I FINALLY convinced him to get a SA and sure enough...ZERO. All along he has said NO DONOR. He wants the biopsy so they are his babies. But now, after three months of HCG injections and in the middle of HCG/FSH for 6 months, he doesn't want to do the biopsy. He said that he doesn't want to go through that and have the pain when they might not find anything. He is now accepting and kinda relieved that we have the donor option. 

I am sorry that you are in this boat but have comfort in this thread. Over your TTC journey the ladies here will give you strength, support, a shoulder to cry on, hugs when you are down, hugs when you are happy, these women will make the journey feel less lonely. I couldn't have made it this far without losing it if it wasn't for these strong, beautiful women. We are all here for you!! :hugs:


----------



## Mikihob

Gem I am so, so sorry. :hugs:


----------



## MoBaby

My DH was the same way. He said absolutely no donor! But we also didn't want to do the biopsy because he had two previous surgeries down there which caused his azo (not the surgery but had surgery due to the issues)...So we finally had 3 different drs tell us it was the sperm that was making us have bad embryos (we would find just enough each cycle to do ICSI) and possibly the miscarriages. DH tried vitamins, clomid, HCG injections and it made no difference in anything, and after 2 years of heartbreak and seeing me how I was he finally decided DS was the way we should go. We were all prepared to do DIUI. But our last little embryo decided it wanted to stick around. So miracles happen but I was content with our decision to just go ahead and do the DIUI. We actually were not going to go with our embryos because of how little faith we had. 

Gem: So sorry!


----------



## sharon99

Good luck, Olive!!! I'm thinking of you... and Gem... and everyone else, in all your different stages.

News for me... I got a BFP today. !!! My first ever! I keep looking at it to make sure it's real. :) Thank you all for your support over the past few months. Crossing my fingers and trying to relax and enjoy. :)


----------



## Olive333

sharon99 said:


> Good luck, Olive!!! I'm thinking of you... and Gem... and everyone else, in all your different stages.
> 
> News for me... I got a BFP today. !!! My first ever! I keep looking at it to make sure it's real. :) Thank you all for your support over the past few months. Crossing my fingers and trying to relax and enjoy. :)


Congrats!!! I'm so happy for you!!! What protocol did you use this time around?

I hope I come back in about a week and half with the same news!


----------



## sharon99

I really, really hope so too, Olive!! Good luck with the *&$%(# TWW.

No protocol- my doc wanted to try 3 natural cycles first, then move on to Clomid if nothing. This was our second dIUI.


----------



## rdleela

Congrats, Sharon!!

And best of luck to everyone else!

Gem I hope you are doing OK...


----------



## Stinas

gem - Im sorry! Its hard going through a whole round of IVF to get a BFN. :hugs: I agree with BUBU..you have to be super lucky for it to work on the first try. Unfortunately, does not look like too many of us azoo ladies get lucky on the first try. Give your body some rest, then have a chat with your doc to see what you could do next.


I think almost every DH/SO is never on board with DS at the beginning. DH was like no way, we are fine just us, when it came to DS. Once we did get pregnant and we saw no HB's, it crushed DHthats when he went on board with DS, but for some reason, thats when I was not ready for DS. Thankfully, I listened to myself.decided to use our :cold: (with DH sperm from TESE).see how it ended up, if it didn't work out, then I was ok with DS. Here we are, 27w pregnant with twins.via DH's sperm. 
You both have to be fully on board for DS. Its not an overnight decision.


----------



## MBABY2014

GEM
I'm so very sorry to hear your news!!
Please try to stay strong and positive- one day at a time and you and hubby will figure it out!!
Kisses from ny!


----------



## MBABY2014

How exciting Sharron!!!!! Congrats


----------



## deafgal01

Gem- hang in there. This journey is not an easy one obviously. I hope you take time to rest your body and regroup for next stage.

Sharon-- heartfelt congrats to you!

I have been reading. Just not commenting much lately as it has been difficult for me so been trying to be on Bnb a lot less with so many work hours on my agenda these days. I haven't forgotten about you all. It just has been so hard for me to come in here or think anything baby related because of how long I might have to put it off for to pay down debts before I consider trying again.


----------



## babadespls

[QUOTE
Hey,

I found your post interesting as I feel like we have similar stories. My husband had a zero count on the initial SA's, but then they centrifuged his sample and found 5 sperm total (3 twitching, non-progressive, and 2 non-motile). All hormones normal except FSH is slightly high (although not THAT high). He has one undescended testicle (which is why i think his FSH levels are a bit high as this testicle is in his abdomen and dead). He also has a scortal hernia above his good testicle but the doc said this wouldn't affect his good testicle in anyway). Doc doesn't really recommend a biopsy because he thinks it's unexplained non-obstructive azoospermia. The fact he has some sperm in his semen and high FSH indicated non-obstructive, but he said he couldn't know 100% unless we did the biopsy. What is this vitamin that your DH is on? Something prescribed? My DH is taking Wellman's Conception. He's been taking it for about 2 months and cut out alcohol. It takes 3 months for the body to recognize the changes, so I think we're going to do one more SA in the next month or so. I'm still debating the biopsy. They've basically told us IVF with ICSI and surgical sperm extraction is our only hope, but if it were obstructive azoospermia we'd have way more options. I'd love to hear more details on your story![/QUOTE]


This vitamin that he is taking is called StaminoGro, its basically a vitamin for people TTC, but is by no means a miracle drug (Words from our Urologist). 

StaminoGro is of benefit to sperm in that it helps to improve sperm motility, sperm morphology and concentration. It cannot help a male who is completely infertile. It can only help a male to improve his sperm quality, so I don't even know if its worth it, but we are trying anything at this point, and will give it 3 months and do another SA.

Our Urologist explained, that when there are high FSH levels and other hormones levels are fine, it points to testicular failure, but at the same time, he says the statistic is that they find some viable sperm in about 60% of these patients with testicular failure or NOA during a biopsy. So, we will definitely consider a biopsy, if his stats are at all accurate.

I think that its a great sign that there were even 5 sperm in your DH's last sample, and maybe vitamins could improve their quality to be used for ICSI?


----------



## bubumaci

Sharon - HUGE congratulations to you! That's wonderful news :) :) :hugs:


----------



## MBABY2014

Hi there!
I have a similar story
Undecended and hernia surgery at a young age

0 on sperm count!

Just did biopsy abs TESE last week!! Results were good and we are now gearing up for IVF

How high was his FSH- my hubs was 16( slightly high)

Did your hubby have hernia repair? If so- there could be a resulting blockage!!

Go for the biopsy and surgery! It wasn't fun/ but the chance of us having our own baby makes it worth it! He was out a few days from work- but otherwise fine!

Let me know if you have any questions!


----------



## MBABY2014

babadespls said:


> [QUOTE
> Hey,
> 
> I found your post interesting as I feel like we have similar stories. My husband had a zero count on the initial SA's, but then they centrifuged his sample and found 5 sperm total (3 twitching, non-progressive, and 2 non-motile). All hormones normal except FSH is slightly high (although not THAT high). He has one undescended testicle (which is why i think his FSH levels are a bit high as this testicle is in his abdomen and dead). He also has a scortal hernia above his good testicle but the doc said this wouldn't affect his good testicle in anyway). Doc doesn't really recommend a biopsy because he thinks it's unexplained non-obstructive azoospermia. The fact he has some sperm in his semen and high FSH indicated non-obstructive, but he said he couldn't know 100% unless we did the biopsy. What is this vitamin that your DH is on? Something prescribed? My DH is taking Wellman's Conception. He's been taking it for about 2 months and cut out alcohol. It takes 3 months for the body to recognize the changes, so I think we're going to do one more SA in the next month or so. I'm still debating the biopsy. They've basically told us IVF with ICSI and surgical sperm extraction is our only hope, but if it were obstructive azoospermia we'd have way more options. I'd love to hear more details on your story!


This vitamin that he is taking is called StaminoGro, its basically a vitamin for people TTC, but is by no means a miracle drug (Words from our Urologist). 

StaminoGro is of benefit to sperm in that it helps to improve sperm motility, sperm morphology and concentration. It cannot help a male who is completely infertile. It can only help a male to improve his sperm quality, so I don't even know if its worth it, but we are trying anything at this point, and will give it 3 months and do another SA.

Our Urologist explained, that when there are high FSH levels and other hormones levels are fine, it points to testicular failure, but at the same time, he says the statistic is that they find some viable sperm in about 60% of these patients with testicular failure or NOA during a biopsy. So, we will definitely consider a biopsy, if his stats are at all accurate.

I think that its a great sign that there were even 5 sperm in your DH's last sample, and maybe vitamins could improve their quality to be used for ICSI?[/QUOTE]



See my other message for you!


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## gem10

Hello ladies,

Thank you all for the kind words of support. This was not our first go, but our second using IVF/ICSI. I just feel so frustrated after spending the last four months eating organic, following a fertility diet, doing acupuncture, taking vitamins, no caffeine, no alcohol, and no success. Its so damn frustrating. I know it takes many times before you have success, but its a hard decision to know when to stop using DH and consider a donor. Our insurance will cover about 6 trials, which I am truly thankful for. But we have to be careful as we dont want to exhaust all of our attempts and leave without a baby. Its frustrating to have nothing frozen, no embryos, no sperm, nothing. I look at alot of your signatures, and many of you have done many FETs, I guess I'm wondering why we never have any left over? Have your DH had multiple TESE procedures? My H is more than willing to do the surgery again, but he needs lots of time to recover from this one. They literally cut right down the center and were very aggressive this time in hopes of finding lots of sperm. Because of this, he needs a lot more recovery time, which means more waiting, which is even more frustrating. 

From here, I think we need to find a specialist for him, because the way they have been doing this just doesn't seem optimal to me. His doctor, a urologist performs the surgery, then gives the tissue to an embryologist at my RE. He then searches to find sperm. Now this man handles ALL the cases, so he has lots of other women to tend to. Therefore, he is just finding what he needs to cover my eggs, and not looking for anything extra. They also keep saying its not worth it to freeze the sperm they find. Then WTH are you choosing to be aggressive to find extra sperm if you're not even gonna look or freeze? It just doesn't make sense. 

I'm considering looking into acupuncture for DH. I have heard this can be beneficial in boosting sperm count. Has anyone done this? The hard part is finding one. I have found many in NYC but that commute is just too much for DH to do regularly. It's not possible to work and get to NYC each week. So I will focus my energy on that for now, because I have to do something!!!!

In the meantime, DH suggested maybe doing DS now, giving him time to recoop, then trying again with him in a couple years. I'm considering that option. But I think I want to find a different donor. I'm not sure I really like the person we chose. It seemed that the two places my RE suggested had hardly any options. So, I will also look into other sperm banks as well.

The only thing I can do to keep myself from sobbing is to try to keep busy. I can't get pregnant, but I can damn sure research a way to make sure I can someday!

Other options:
Go on vacation
Remodel our house..I'm thinking a pool!
Make the best of what we have in life now.
Drink!

Sorry for the long post. I am just so frustrated, sad, angry and confused. 

Sharon, I am SO very happy for you. You definitely did make the 2ww your bitch! :rofl: Congratulations to you!! 

Thanks again ladies for your kind words and for being there for me. I would be in a much darker place without all of you.


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## snd80

Congrats Sharon!!! :happydance:

Gem- So sorry hon!!! Thinking of you!! :hugs:


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## snd80

Some of you already know, and I hope I will not hurt anyone by posting this, but I got a BFP yesterday too! I am still in shock! I had to buy a digital test just to see it for myself.... Beta was over 200 and they said they like to see 100. Second beta is Monday. :cloud9:

Thank you to all my "rocks" on here that helped me thru this horrid journey to this point, especially Deb!!! She helped so many of us that had no where else to turn with this crappy diagnosis!!!!! She is DEF my hero!!! :cry: Dreams do come true; sometimes just at fate's pace. Took us over 12 years to get here!!!

For those of you still struggling, please don't give up!!! And I will always be your azoo sister, baby or not!!!! I will NEVER forget where I came from!!!!! :hugs:


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## MoBaby

gem we were lucky to get frosties our third ivf/icsi cycle. We never did the mtese (too much for dh to endure and he's already had two previous operations down there).. Dh makes just enough sperm for icsi(maybe 25-100 motile per sample). We really didn't change anything the round we got 6 blasts either. It took us 6 transfers to get here now. I feel your frustrations. There is no easy solution which sucks! I think some time off on vacation to enjoy life and each other would be good.


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## gem10

Congratulations snd! Wow, such an exciting week for this thread! Did you use DS or DHs?


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## bubumaci

Gem, the FETs we had were when the fertilised eggs were frozen on day one. No idea if they would have made it to blast... They didn't when they were thawed! Only Feb last year, when 10 were frozen day 1 and 5 left to grow, had two day 6 blasts frozen (didn't do fresh transfer because of OHSS - retrieved 23 eggs from me).


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## Stinas

Gem - Its such a frustrating process!! Our first time around we were able to freeze one embryo.doc said in normal circumstances they wouldn't have froze it due to quality. We did a FET and it didn't work. We were devastated once again, and thinking back now, I wonder if it was even worth freezing.it was like a tease, not to mention thousands of dollars (no coverage here, all out of pocket). Our second fresh cycle we were able to freeze 3 embryos..which we used during this successful FET. 
Thankfully we had an amazing re! Our urologist did the TESE in '12, he found a couple sperm, then the embryologist at the fertility clinic we went to searched for sperm that was good enough for IVF. He found 3/4 vials. Apparently you only usually need one per cycle? 
Our second fresh cycle we got success, which ended in MC. Our second FET was also a success, which is this pregnancy. So DH only had to go through the TESE once. 
If you do not feel 100% with the way they are handling his TESE sperm.you need to go somewhere else! Our RE was great and they wanted to freeze as much as possible so we won't have to deal with another TESE! Thats the attitude you want from them. 
DH's suggestion is not bad.use DS for now then try again with his. Never thought of that route. Taking a little break wouldn't hurt. It made me feel better! Sometimes infertility can take over your life a bit. 

snd - I am over the moon for you!!! Huge congrats!!


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## sharon99

SND, Wow!!! Big congratulations to you!!!! :)

Deafgal, nice to hear from you. I'm sorry things are still hard for you- xoxo

Gem, I vote vacation AND drinking!! In all seriousness, it seems like you're really researching and thinking about a lot of options. You seem to have a lot of humor and joy to share, so I am SURE you will be a great mom, no matter how you become one.

Olive, holding up OK??

Thanks everyone for your well-wishes. It still doesn't exactly seem real! I was reading along with some of the donor sperm discussions... The hardest part for us was *actually* deciding to do it, and choosing the donor- once we made that decision it's slowly become easier to accept (with some starts and stops). When we first talked about it, I couldn't say the words "donor sperm" without bursting into tears! The therapist we were required to go to (and I'm glad we did) said the clients she works with are all very apprehensive at the beginning, but once they become parents the decision just becomes less important. I'm sure we'll still have some issues, however, and I know DS is not for everyone. Has anyone seen the show Quints by Surprise? I was talking to a friend and she mentioned it- apparently it's a "Kate Plus 8" type show, but the kids (born to a married couple- husband had low sperm count) are all donor-conceived. I haven't watched it, but saw a few clips and I like the idea of a show about donor-conceived kids that's not all about DS, but about having kids and raising a family.


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## Olive333

Snd - congrats!!!

Sharon - I'm holding up ok, I keep thinking it will be negative and will end up childless. I still have 8 days left to test, so I just have to keep busy. I like the sew quilts, but I can't do it since I only do baby quilts for family members. I don't feel like doing them.


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## Rainbow123

:hugs: I am so so sorry Gem. I hope you're ok. :hugs: XXXXXXX


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## Rainbow123

Sharon - what fantastic news! :yipee: Keep us posted! XXXXX


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## Stinas

Sharon - Great news!!! I have seen that show! Never knew it was DS! They all look like the parents! Crazy. I do believe that when adopting or using DS/DE, the child ends up molding/looking like you anyways. My godparents adopted and the girl is a spitting image of my godfather!


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## babadespls

MBABY2014 said:
 

> Hi there!
> I have a similar story
> Undecended and hernia surgery at a young age
> 
> 0 on sperm count!
> 
> Just did biopsy abs TESE last week!! Results were good and we are now gearing up for IVF
> 
> How high was his FSH- my hubs was 16( slightly high)
> 
> Did your hubby have hernia repair? If so- there could be a resulting blockage!!
> 
> Go for the biopsy and surgery! It wasn't fun/ but the chance of us having our own baby makes it worth it! He was out a few days from work- but otherwise fine!
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions!

Hi MBABY, 

My Husband has never had a hernia or anything like that and all the tests rule out a blockage, I wish it was a blockage though. His FSH was 20.

He has had 3 surgeries in the last 3 months due to having reconstructive surgery from an accident, so when he heard that he has to have surgery down there he was like :nope: hence us trying all these vitamins, and hoping for a better SA result, but he will do it if he has to!

IVF is so expensive that we have to save up and we pretty much will have 1 try as here in South Africa, our medical aids exclude all fertility treatments, no exceptions :cry:

I wish you all the luck for IVF and keep updating as I am very interested in finding out the procedures etc...


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## Mikihob

GEM - DH hits his three months of injections in March. If the results of his SA on March comes back zero again, we are going to start actively looking for donor sperm. We want to at try a DIUI while we wait for the second 3 months of his injections. He has such a low chance of it working, that we are willing to give donor a shot and see if we can be successful. If so, we will freeze all DH's sperm if he starts making some. I have such a high miscarriage risk that even if the DIUI works, I might miscarry. Apparently PCOS increases your risk, Clomid increases your risk, Plus my mom had six miscarriages before me. I am kinda scared when I do get a BFP. 

SHARON - I LOVE the show Quints by Surprise. I have tried to figure out how they conceived (assumed IVF) and why but didn't know that they used DS. How amazing! I agree with Stinas the babies look like the parents. I assumed they just did IVF and put too many eggs in. But with DS sometimes your success rates are lower and I have heard of plenty of doctors putting in upwards of 4 eggs to increase the chances. Those babies are so beautiful. I wonder if their eldest daughter is also from donor. 

It's good to see a show about Quints that focuses on the babies and them being a family. I have watched so many times and they have never mentioned donor sperm. It's great! It gives me hope!


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## Olive333

Miki - I was reading their blog and all of the children are DS conceived. They are from different donors since the second time around their donor was not longer available. She had 4 follicles the first time around and got pregnant withe one. The second time around she had 5 follicles and actually conceived 6, but one was an empty sac.


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## arzoo

Congrats SND. Thrilled for you.

And thank you for your words of encouragement, we are all just at different stages of our journey.

I am going back to see my FS on Friday, yes I have 2 dates on Valentine's day, one to see my doctor who has performed the lapro and Hysteroscopy and the other the FS . He had missed to give me the prescription last time, so going to get that and if all is well then I move on to the next stage in our journey. I start taking the nasal spray. I have been very low recently, for the last few days slowly starting to pull myself back together and starting to feel positive. 

Gem thank you for going into the details about who looks for sperms etc. This is very valuable information and will help us have a informed conversation with the urologist when we see him in March.
Gem, it is a good idea to take a break and see what how you feel about the next steps. It is our aniversay in 2 weeks and we are thinking of going for a weekend away as a treat before we start on the next chapter. 

Wish you all lovely ladies success in your journey.

I am very interested in seeing this show now, Quints by Surprise, is it a US program?


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## Stinas

Arzoo - Yes it is, but I'm sure you can watch episodes online. It was on a channel called TLC if I'm not mistaken.


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## MBABY2014

Well I will keep you posted and please do the same!

My hubs FSH was a 16 ( FYI)

I understand your hesitation/ if you are not in a 'rush' give the vitamins a chance for a few months and see what happens 

I currently on day 7 of meds and saw some nice size follies today!!


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## MBABY2014

Hello my Azo wife's!

Just wanted to check in say hi! Give you my update..in case anyone was wondering!!

I'm on day 7 of meds...
150 meno/150 gonal f/225 garilerex ( just added lady night)

Had an US/BW this am- 4-6 follies on each side and 5 measurable at 10-12

Feeling ok emotionally- getting nervous and ER and thawing of DH sperm....


How is everyone??


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## deafgal01

Doing ok, taking it one day at a time to be honest.

How are u doing? It is emotional going thru all that mbaby.


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## bubumaci

Hi All!
So some news from me ...
They already told me before I went in for the ER, that the TESE material was useless and they were thawing two straws we have from the one amazing SA he had two years ago *sniff* ... so I already had silent tears rolling down my face before I went in, as I felt so sorry for DH having to go through it all 
ER went well - 15 eggies were retrieved ...
Afterwards we spoke with our doctor, he said that the TESE sperm were a) very few and what was there was all very bad looking. The only good thing about having had the TESE done i.m.o. is that his clinic is also sending in a sample for histological analysis and perhaps we will get some answers as to why we have to go through this?

Today I received the fertilisation results - 14 of my 15 eggs were mature and 9 fertilised. So now we are back in the waiting game to see how the little ones develop ... Transfer is on Saturday.


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## sharon99

Bubumaci, I'm sorry about the TESE material. Thank goodness you had some straws frozen. From what I hear, 9 fertilized is a great number though, right?!? Good luck on Saturday!

Good luck Mbaby & Arzoo!

Olive, I'm sorry you're feeling so down. The TWW messes with my mind SO much- it just makes everything seem terrible. It's like wearing a Horcrux (*Harry Potter reference*). I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for you! I've been trying to get back into crafting too- I really enjoyed counted cross-stitch as a kid but find it a liiit-tle mind numbing now! I also like sewing, but never really got into quilting- maybe I should give it a try.


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## Olive333

Sharon - I have 6 days to go for me to test. I had some cramps yesterday 7 DPO wich is unusual for me. I just don't know anymore. I wish Monday was here already, but at the same time, I don't want it to get here and be disapointed with a negative!! How are you feeling? When do you go to your OB?


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## rdleela

Bubumaci, best of luck with those 9 fertilized eggie's!

Snd, congrats!!

Good luck in the next week, Olive!

To everyone else, hope you're all hanging in there!


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## MBABY2014

Olive stay strong!!!

Bub- sorry about TESE- 2 straws ste better than none! Sounds positive in terms of fertilization! Stay hopeful! Sending positive vibes your way!!


Is anyone else still stimming? I'm thinking possible ER on Monday- thst would be 13 days of stimming! Ohy! Lol

Sharron- thanks for the well wishes!!


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## MBABY2014

Deafl- it is a lot!! Thank for the encourament!!


And of course Rhedla- your the best!


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## arzoo

I know this might sound really silly but I dont know where else to turn to . I need your creative thinking to help me solve a small dilemma that I have. 

I have not till date told my parents about DH azoo diagnosis. What I have told them is that I am having some issues which doctor is still trying to investigate and find out. But now since we are going ahead with IVF in March, I want to tell her that we are going for IVF, but I dont want to tell her what the true cause for the IVF is. Has anyone else faced similar situation and how did you resolve it. Just telling mom that we are going for IVF without giving reason for the cause wont go down well.So i have to give her some reason, but what reason ?


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## MoBaby

I haven't told my mom anything! She thinks this baby was conceived naturally.. What is funny Is she said I was wondering when you were going to get pg.. I was starting to think your husband couldn't get you pregnant (which is an awful thing to say and an assumption which is why I don't give her more info)... Anyways you could just say the drs aren't sure why it's not working naturally but you need ivf. I'm not good coming up with reasons other than that :)


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## Olive333

My mom also made the comment that it might be my husband. I have a very close relationship with my mom and at first I told her we had decided not to say what the problem was. I have always been open with her, so she knew that if I had issues I would discuss them. She put 2 and 2 together and at the end I did tell her, after discussing with my husband.

Today is 9 dpiui and I know its too early to test, but did it anyway to see if the ovidrel shot had left my system. Well the good news is the shot is no longer in my system, the bad news is that is was a BFN. At least I now know that if I get a second line it's not going to be because of the shot.


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## Mikihob

arzoo said:


> I know this might sound really silly but I dont know where else to turn to . I need your creative thinking to help me solve a small dilemma that I have.
> 
> I have not till date told my parents about DH azoo diagnosis. What I have told them is that I am having some issues which doctor is still trying to investigate and find out. But now since we are going ahead with IVF in March, I want to tell her that we are going for IVF, but I dont want to tell her what the true cause for the IVF is. Has anyone else faced similar situation and how did you resolve it. Just telling mom that we are going for IVF without giving reason for the cause wont go down well.So i have to give her some reason, but what reason ?

Arzoo that's a tough spot. You could tell her that the doctor hasn't been able to figure out the exact cause and they suggested IVF as a way to bypass the problems. If she asks questions, explain how the procedure works and don't state anything specific about DH or the sperm collection. At least she will know you are having IVF and that she might get a grandbaby (or two) out of it. I think that should work, but I don't know if your mom is pushy for info or not. That's what I would do. 

Hope this helps. :hugs:


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## bubumaci

Hmmm, difficult one! We have been entirely open about the situation with everyone. For me, personally, being open is always the best option - we get full support and don't get the weird questions (like Mo - about DH not being able to get pregnant etc.) except perhaps trying to understand, how the whole treatment works.

I suppose the easiest thing to say would be, that the doctors can't find a reason for the infertility (i.e. why you aren't getting pregnant naturally) and are confident that IVF will end up in giving you your bring home baby :hugs:


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## Hopeful Cat

I have been very open with our infertility to our families. They are very supportive and ive needed that help. Like right now im sitting in hospital waiting to go in for egg collection and hubby is about to go in for mtese....I needdd my sister to pick us both up because we will both have been under anaesthetic.

My parents have also supported us financially with our first cycles.

Its completely your choice arzoo...u could say its technical or they dont know or you may tell her in time. Whatever is the least stress for u and dh. This is difficult so I always go for what is going to cause me least stress and worry.


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## gem10

Bubmaci and Hopeful Cat, I am hoping all goes well for you!!!

Arzoo, I agree with Bubumaci, you can say it is unexplained and IVF is your next step. Many people do have unexplained fertility so it isnt that far off.

We had our follow ups yesterday. My RE says everything on.my end for the cycle was perfect, and I did everything I should have. So it really is due to DH poor quality sperm. He said we can try again, but obviously we would be more successful with donor. 

Urologist told DH he can do surgery as many times as he wants. Next time would be less aggressive and less painful, hopefully, with a smaller incision. He also wants to test his blood and do another SA to see if vitamins and chlomid have changed anything.

We talk to another Dr Sat, a Chinese herbalist/accupuncturist,/fertility specialist to see if there may be something DH can do using Chinese medicine to help. I will let you all know how that works out!

Ultimately, if we do Tese again we have to wait at least 6 months. If we do donor, we.can do IUI right away. DH is willing to do whatever I want to do. Now if only I knew the answer to that question: (


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## Miraclbaby

Hi ladies, hope u don't mind if I join this group. We are ivf candidates. Every SA came out with zero sperm. mTese is scheduled for May/ June 2014. Hope there are success stories out there.

Baby dust to all of u


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## Stinas

arzoo - Why do you not want to tell her the real reason why you are doing IVF? Just curious. I told my mom when I found out about DH's azoo.i just broke down. It took some time for her to understand what exactly it is, but she was open and fully understanding about it. I know not everyone is the same though. 
You could always tell her its "unexplained" or its both of us type of deal. Im sure she will just ask you a bunch of IVF questions and you won't have to go into detail as to why you have to do it.

Olive - Its still super early! You have time! 

Mo - I have actually had someone say to my face."what are you guys waiting for..what is he shooting blanks?" People are just weird.

BUBU - DH and I have been pretty open about it to most people. I just ignore the ones that like to make other peoples lives their gossip. Those are the morons i like to keep them wondering. They are so stupid they ask questions like "oh twins must run on his side" lol Little do they know, it needs to be on the woman's side, not the males.(correct me if I'm wrong, but thats what I have read)

Gem - Its a hard thing to have to decide upon. Give yourself time to think about going ahead with DIUI..meanwhile, DH can take whatever pills. 

Miraclbaby - Welcome! You have found an amazing thread with amazing people! I hate to see new people here, breaks my heart. Don't worry, there is always a light at the end of the tunnel, it just takes time to figure out what direction you need to take to get there.


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## arzoo

Welcome miraclbaby.though it is sad to see new people join.

I wish I could be open as you suggested hopefulcat , stinas and bubumci. 

It took a lot of weight off our chests when I shared the news with my sister. but with parents I am hesitating, they re old and not in great heath. and I know how hurt they will be on knowing the struggle we are going through. Besides they are no longer living in the same country as us, so other than causing then pain, I dont see much point in sharing.And, it has taken a long time for my family to full accept DH and now this, I really dont want to spoil the good relation my DH has put a lot of effort to biuld. Maybe my fears are mis placed. Also if all our efforts fail, and we are forced down the donor route then I want as few people knowing about it.maybe I m just adding things to complicate my life.

Olive, Good luck. 
I am also very close to my mother and if I hesitate to tell her the reason, she will see through me and know that DH has some issues. 

Gem.All the best, these decisions are not easy. hope you are able to come to a decision soon on what you want to do next. 


Thank you all for your advice and suggestions.


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## gem10

Arzoo, I understand your hesitation. DH told me about his azoo on, I think, our third date! He basically said, I may not be able to have kids, so if you want to leave now, I understand. It totally broke my heart. First, that he has dealt with this since he was achild and feels that no one would stay with him. Second, I always wanted kids, and I literally was in love with him at first sight. I told myself, God wouldnt bring me the love of my life without a way to have kids. We will figure it out when we get there.

Anyway, I never told my family. I feared that my mom would say, leave him now, you want kids. Or that my family would look at him differently. It wasnt until this summer, seven years later, that I finally told her. She was amazing! She has been very supportive, and has even said, you guys can have an amazing life without kids. I never expected her to say that. So I do understand your hesitation. You never know how people will respond. I havent spoken to my dad in a few years, but I know I will never tell him.

I do think it may be a weight off your chest if you at least tell them about the IVF. This is a tough process and it helps to get support from wherever you can. If you feel they may have a negative response, then theres no need to make matters worse.

Welcome to the newbie!! While I am sad you are in this situation, these women have been my saving grace, and we will help you through this.


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## gem10

Olive, stay strong and keep away from the tests! I know its hard, but it just adds stress. Its too early to test, you are very much still in the game! Hugs to you, the 2ww sucks!!!!


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## Olive333

Thanks to all and welcome miraclbaby. Like everyone else said, its sad we get someone new, but it is nice to meet others with similar issues.

I will be with my inlaws this weekend so I will not test until I was supposed to on 14 dpiui. This wait is killing me.


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## Miraclbaby

Thank u girls. 
So far i m trying to stay strong. But its hard for all of us to deal with this matter. The wait kills me. I am so impatient. 3 months until we start with our ivf cycle.

Here a few information about me and my hubby. Hope there is someone out there who can guide me :flower:

I am 25- no issues

Hubby 33- NOA, hypogonadism
3/2009 testis biopsy- no sperm, but leydig cells are present
My husband got divorced. It didnt work out with his ex wife.
9/2012 We started TTC
12/2012 SA-zero sperm
3/2013 started clomid
7/2013 zero sperm, but testosterone on normal level now
9/2013 left testis varicocelectomy
12/2013 SA-zero sperm
02/2014 phone consultation with Dr. Peter Schlegel. He gave us 50% chance 

I had a phone consultation with the IVF center in New York too. We will probably start in May. Is there someone with similar Diagnose??

P.S. Hope u dont mind grammar mistakes :blush: I just started learning English.


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## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Bubmaci and Hopeful Cat, I am hoping all goes well for you!!!
> 
> Arzoo, I agree with Bubumaci, you can say it is unexplained and IVF is your next step. Many people do have unexplained fertility so it isnt that far off.
> 
> We had our follow ups yesterday. My RE says everything on.my end for the cycle was perfect, and I did everything I should have. So it really is due to DH poor quality sperm. He said we can try again, but obviously we would be more successful with donor.
> 
> Urologist told DH he can do surgery as many times as he wants. Next time would be less aggressive and less painful, hopefully, with a smaller incision. He also wants to test his blood and do another SA to see if vitamins and chlomid have changed anything.
> 
> We talk to another Dr Sat, a Chinese herbalist/accupuncturist,/fertility specialist to see if there may be something DH can do using Chinese medicine to help. I will let you all know how that works out!
> 
> Ultimately, if we do Tese again we have to wait at least 6 months. If we do donor, we can do IUI right away. DH is willing to do whatever I want to do. Now if only I knew the answer to that question: (


I am glad that it turned out you were doing great without problems. I am sorry to hear that your DH's sperm is problematic. Would you consider going forward with the DIUI and then still having him do the tese?? My DH mentioned if his SA comes back zero again he wants to go ahead and look for the donor and do DIUI. After that if he has sperm we can freeze it for IUI or IVF later. This way we can have a baby sooner and might still have a chance at a baby with his sperm too. I don't know if your DH would be willing to do that or not. You should check out Fairfax Cryobank. You can upload a pic into their website and they can match donor to DH's facial features, plus they have people you can call and discuss the photo's to get a professional opinion on if they would match or not. I think the web address is fairfaxcryobank.com. 

Good luck in your decision making. Its not an easy decision to move into donor sperm. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## sharon99

Arzoo, it is such a hard decision to tell or not tell. It sounds like you have the best interests of your parents at heart. It was so hard for me to tell my parents, even though they love DH. I hardly ever cry in front of my mom, but boy, did I cry that day! In the end I think it's brought us closer together, since I was able to open up to her. But, I don't tell everyone- I guess I base it on if they need to know, and what I think their reaction would be. Although I must say, I've been pleasantly surprised that everyone has been very supportive. I agree with everyone else, though- Unexplained infertility is SUCH a common diagnosis. I have friends going through IVF now for unexplained, so I think that will be a convenient catch-all.

Olive, only a few days to go!! I agree, you're still very early. Hopefully the in-laws will be a good distraction- I do so much better during the TWW with distractions!

Gem, it's a tough decision, and it took us a long time to reach it. Lots of talks, then time to think, then more talks. As I mentioned earlier, going to see an infertility therapist was really helpful for us. Or there may be support groups in your area- RESOLVE has a lot of chapters in the US.

Miraclbaby, welcome, but sorry that you're here. Your English is great! I started taking some online Spanish courses and it's really difficult- I admire people who speak a second language fluently.


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## Olive333

Sharon - how many days post iui did you get your positive? I still think I will test until Monday, but the wait is so difficult.


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## sharon99

I actually waited until 15dpiui... but my LP is 11, 12 days MAX, so I was already a few days late by then. I never liked to test early, though- I preferred AF to BFNs. Hugs!!!


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## so_impatient

Soooo, my story....

I am 27 (but 28 next week) and he is 30.

We started by casually ttc, like not trying but not trying not to, that was year one.
Then for 2 more years it was ttc with much effort- daily bd, charting temperature, juicing, flax seed, and even acupuncture. 

In year 2 of ttc I started begging my doctor to refer us to an infertility specialist, but that prescription-loving doctor would only say the stupidest things ever, e.g. "you're young, just relax and it will happen", and, "your life will change after you have kids, enjoy the time you have" and other loads of precious time-wasting crap like this.

Finally I went to a walk in doctor, and this doctor took pity on my situation and kindly and promptly referred myself and him to a specialist.

All this time I assumed I was the problem, but after all the tests were done, after 3 years ttc, it was determined that he has zero sperm count.

Heartbreak! I feel so bad for him because he is such a family kind of guy, he wanted this more than me- and I wanted it very badly. (still do.)

Anger- because his count is due to bilateral undescended testicles, and this wasn't corrected until he was a teenager- this is one of those situations were I feel anger at his parents for not doing anything sooner. They had tons of kids it's so unfair to him!

And to me!

We are so private about this, we are a pretty private couple, after keeping this news to ourselves I told my sister about it finally. It made me feel so much better to have someone else to share the my grief with. But I don't want to tell anyone else.

Typical heartbreaks to follow of course- watching all my friends have babies, watching my siblings have babies, loving those sweet babies, loving my nieces and nephews but carrying a horrible sadness that I don't get to be the one decorating nurseries, and toting around a mini-me that I can dress up in cute little headbands and onesies. 

We have so much to share, a beautiful home in the country and it feels so empty with just the two of us- pets bring us joy but there is a constant sadness.

When he went to a urologist, that dr told him that he believes he may have some sperm in one of his testicles- he felt them both and feels that there is a good chance on one side- - has anyone else been given this shred of hope? Did things turn out?--

I don't want to adopt.

Our options are IVF, with a painful testicle surgery for him- pain that I really don't wan to see him go through poor guy hasn't he suffered enough?? - and that's only with the chance that they will retrieve something. And meanwhile I'm getting older making my chances smaller of success (and then I get mad again for my doctor delaying all this by two years!!!)

And of course, then there's the cost- it's just not easy to come up with $10,000 + just to get started! And that's if it works the first time, which it never seems to!

There is a wealthy grandparent in his family, and we are going for a visit soon. The plan is for him to ask him to sponsor this little IVF project of ours. But his parents are very against us receiving financial help- we are both self-employed and they have never understood our lifestyle. Of course his parents don't know this situation, (Even though I feel it's partly their fault for not correcting his undescended testes sooner).

And add to that we're private and I dont want to discuss this stuff with his family! I am seriously not even looking forward to this trip to see this grandparent, and I don't want to involve this family but a baby means more to me than being embarassed so I'll just have to bear it.

But his mom will be there too, and I'm worried that if she finds out he asks his grandparent for money she will get mad at us....although in the bigger picture I guess what does that matter?

So that's my sad story. It's long. I want to update here on what happens... we have a long road ahead of us but if we get a donation from the grandparent, at least money wouldn't stop us from trying everything we can.

I personally can't think of a better reason to give money to a grandchild, but this family is funny like that.

In the future, I want to raise the topic of donor sperm too...


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## Hopeful Cat

Hi so-impatient. So sad that we have to go through these things. My husband also had bilateral undescrnded testicles that werent corrected until age 9. No doctors advised his parents of his medical issue..my mother-in-law figured it out herself and took him for assessment.

Anyway. We were given less than 10% chance of finding sperm (more likely 5%). We were told if the issue isnt corrected by age 3 the damage is done and doesnt really matter how many years after that its done..outcome wont change much. Well we did a fine needle aspiration and found no sperm. Then we did a mtese last year and found 11 sperm. And this week we did a second mtese and found 24 sperm. We currently have 12 embryos growing (currently 1 day old).

There is always hope.

Regards to donors...hubby was well against it at first but he is much more accepting now and its still an option for us If these embryos fail.

Sorry to hear ahout the stress involved in the fAmily politics. Hope u get the support!


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## bubumaci

Hi so_impatient :howdy: I am sorry you have had to make your way here - truth be told, you have found a group of wonderful women to support you on your journey! I can understand you anger at having been cost two years - but in all honesty, you both are still very young and I have strong hopes that - being still so young - you will find a way to become parents. (It wasn't until I was nearly 36 and DH was 35 that we discovered his Azoospermia - and I am going on 39 this year ;)!).

Personally, I would try speaking to the grandparent. My approach to most things in life : if you don't try, you won't know and you have nothing to lose. At best - you gain the support you need. At worst - you are no worse off than you already are.
If your Mother-in-Law does start saying nasty things, you could always shoot back, that it is she and her husband that are at fault, not having dealt with the issue when DH was a baby ... (I think my anger would get the better of me and if something nasty were said to me, I would probably not be able to bite my tongue). The other thing, where you have time on your side is because of your age - you have time to save and still be young enough for the treatment :)

I can't advise on the TESE. My DH had TESE done for the first time with our current round of IVF (two years ago, by some freak, he had taken Tamoxifen for 6 weeks and produced an amazing SA, and they were able to freeze 6 straws worth of sperm. For the other ICSIs bar one - September 2012, where they thawed one straw - they have found enough in his samples to use for ICSI fertilisation - but Tamoxifen didn't help ever again). They can find no reason for his infertility - no hormonal, genetic issues, biology all clear, no blockages ... On Monday, DH had his TESE, I took the material with me for my ER ... even before I went in, they told me that the TESE material was useless, nothing there, bad looking sperm - we are waiting on the histology report from the other lab to see if they can give us some reason for his infertility.
The TESE is unpleasant, he has been sore the past few days, but is getting much better ... but it might just be the miracle that you and DH need - see Hopeful Cat's recount ...

Incidentally - congratulations on your growing embies Hopeful Cat :) :dust::dust::dust: to you Sweetie!

Finally AFM - Monday they retrieved 15 eggies from me and 14 were mature ... 9 fertilised using two frozen straws, since the TESE material couldn't be used. (Although, our fertilisation rates have always been good:
June 2012 - 14 retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilised
September 2012 - 11 retrieved, 10 mature, 7 fertilised
February 2013 - 23 retrieved, 18 mature, 15 fertilised
July 2013 - 12 retrieved, 10 mature, 4,5 fertilised - initially they said 4, but a fifth did start ...
November 2013 - 13 retrieved, 11 mature, 9 fertilised).

We rang the clinic yesterday, to see how they are developing ... I have not been able to get excited so far, because of the history we have had ... well - out of the 9, 8 were developing as they should (7/8/9-cell) ... which is a better result than in December, when at day 3, 6 out of our 9 were where they wanted. (Day of transfer we had two blasts => chemical)...

Anyway, I am allowing a tingle of hope to show itself ... and tomorrow I have my transfer at 13:55 ... and I shall hear how our minis are doing ...

Please keep your fingers crossed, that this is finally our time ...
Here, a sprinkling for everyone else : :dust::dust::dust:


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## gem10

Mikihob-yes, my husband mentioned doing the same thing. He is getting a little anxious as he is 36, and really doesn't want to wait too much longer to have kids. He said that he is ready and willing to use DS now and work on him in the meantime. He said, You're a mother without a baby. I'll do whatever I can to fix that. Which, of course, made me cry. He really is amazing.

We used Fairfax when we chose our donor last time. We didn't have any luck with the face recognition, and we even tried lots of different pictures. But we never did call anyone for help. You mentioned paying $200+ for full access, does this give you full access to adult photos? We never saw what our donor looked like as an adult, just a silhouette, which also kind of scares me. DH wasn't comfortable seeing pictures as adults, but I feel like I have to in order to feel comfortable. 

So this is becoming more of an option in my mind. I see people on the thread getting their BFP and it shows that at the end of the day, we just want family and I think we can be happy either way. But, of course, it would be much easier if we could conceive with DH.

Soimpatient and Hopefulcat, my husband had the same, undescended testicles corrected at 5 years old. He has zero sperm in SA. We have done TESE twice. The first time they found 13 sperm. The last one they found 12. Well, they found more than 12, but some were dead : ( Unfortunately both of those cycles did not take. The embryos made it to morula stage by day 5, but they really should have been blastocast by then. The doctor said they are developing, but doing so slowly. He says it is the quality of testicular sperm that is affecting the development. So while they are able to fertilize my eggs, they are not making it to the phase that they can implant and develop. We are working with our urologist to see if there are any meds he can prescribe to improve the quality of the testicular sperm. We are also talking to an alternative medicine fertility specialist tomorrow to see if there are any Chinese herbs that may be able to help. I'll let you know how that goes. 

Just know you are not alone in this. That has been the hardest part for me. But everyday I come on here makes me feel better. There are lots of women out there suffering with you. Keep the faith, that's the best thing you can do.


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## gem10

Bubumaci, it is hard not to get excited! Thats great news! Sounds like your embies are doing well. I tell my husband all the time how strong you are, every time I see your signature I think of the strength it takes to do this that many times and keep going. I have had only 2 failed cycles and am considering donor! So God bless you and your husband for your strength to keep trying. I am hoping this is your cycle! Best of luck for a smooth transfer tomorrow. I want to ask my urologist about the meds your hubby took! That's great that it worked well enough to have tried this many times! :dust: to you!!!


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## Miraclbaby

@ so_impatient Ivf is so expensive! then it depends on the Doctor and clinic as well. Hopefully somebody will sponsor it for u. We r doing the whole procedure in New york at weil cornell. Insurance doesnt even cover mTEse with Dr. Schlegel :-( But our parents will support us.

@hopeful cat OMG!! thats awesome. Hopefully it will work.


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## bubumaci

Thanks Gem!
Well, the original urologist said that he thought it was too risky to do TESE, because he sometimes produces a little and sometimes none, which is why he suggested the Tamoxifen (which is medication to lower Oestrogen, women take it after breast cancer treatment). It must have been some freak miracle, because after taking it for 6 weeks, his SA was 13 mio (!!!) and 8% morphology (at most, they only found max. 250K with 0% motility and morphology - to nothing ...) - so they promptly froze 6 straws of it. I remember seeing the results and bursting into tears (little did I know, that it was only the first hurdle of many *lol*) ...
Anyway, for all the tries that we have had (with the exception of September 2012, when he produced nothing on the day of ER and they thawed a straw), they have managed to find enough swimmers in his fresh sample to be able to do the ICSI ...
For this try, because he had the TESE, they thawed 2 straws ... so we still have three left - hoping we won't need them *grin* ...
Our ER wanted to do fresh TESE, because he thought that the fresh SA was poor quality and he had hoped that the TESE would give us something better.
In February last year we tried again with the Tamoxifen - but had no response to it, so I really think it was some freak miracle two years ago ... no explanations, but hey, if it works, who am I to argue :D

I think no harm can come from trying the Tamoxifen route. The urologist said that he had had success a few times, when the infertility was unexplained (i.e. not hormonal / genetic / obstructive) - perhaps it just takes one time lucky... 

:dust::dust::dust: to us all :)


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## gem10

Just wanted to mention how annoying all the baby Vday posts are. Wishing my hubby was home.for Vday...looks like I will be drinking wine alone tonight. Stupid holiday.


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## Stinas

so_impatient - You came to the right place! Wonderful people here that have been an amazing support group! Lots of different stories here. 
My DH had the TESE in 2012 and have been using that sperm for our IVF cycles. Our 4th cycle(2nd FET) was a success and we are now pregnant with twins. So there is hope if they do find something. It may work the first time, but prepare yourself for it not to. I didn't prepare myself, I thought it was going to work right away since they said we had a 70+% chance of it working. I was devastated&#8230;then became even more as the failed cycles kept happening. When it worked for the first time, ended in MC, but this cycle worked, so we are thankful. It was our last shot before we were going to try donor. 
I agree with the other ladies. It won't hut to tell the grandparents your story. Im sure they will understand. If they don't, it will just show their true colors. IVF is very expensive, we paid for all of ours out of pocket, so I feel your pain. DH & I are not open with private things, but as time goes on you will see that sharing your story with the right people can really help others with their infertility issues. Believe it or not, once you share, tons of people come out of the woodworks. 

BUBU - I think its great news! I can't wait for your ET!


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## Stinas

Gem - I can't stand V day either&#8230;..never could, even though I always had a valentine, still thought it was stupid. Personally I always loved the baby valentines&#8230;.Kind of always made me feel better. As weird as that may sound.


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## MBABY2014

GEM
glad to hear you guys are exploring your options and moving forward positively!! Your strong and I applaud you!

While I don't know the quality of my DH sperm yet, the RE said they were good for ICSI and were moving ( not greatly movement though)

This is what he was doing from Nov-Jan 30
Accupunctute 1x week ( at fertility center)
A bunch of supplements/ if you want the names you can PM me for details
Cut out alcohol ( not all), extra 'activities' (lol) and upped heLthy food

If you guys wznt to attempt TESE I would 100 rec the acupuncture and supplements.

I have also heard good things about Fertility Blend ( it's on amazon)

I will let you know the quality as soon as I know more- I trigger Tom and ER Mobday so I guess I will know more by sometime next week...


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## NikkiR143

I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/

My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago. 

However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference. 

So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get. 

Happy Valentine's Day!

- Nicole


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## bubumaci

Good luck with your trigger tomorrow MBaby!!! :)

Hey Nicole - no judging from me there. I have a friend who has suffered all his life with being ultra nervous (not sure if it is a form of ADS or not) and he always self-medicated with Hash.
DH will most likely have had to smoke his hash mixed in with tobacco? Generally, smoking is likely to have negative effects on fertility / sperm production. I haven't read on the effects of weed, but I can imagine that it is in the same category and not likely to be good for fertility (then again, the 60s-70s baby boom, the hippies were on anything and everything, so who knows!). Kudos to his managing to quit! Based on what I know from my friend, that is particularly tough!

Perhaps it is similar to what my DH says when I moan about him taking baths that are too hot ... if you have a healthy sperm count, it may be impacted by say 3% or so. But if you are already have azoospermia / oligospermia / cryptozoospermia diagnoses - then it probably won't make a huge difference (even though it probably does negatively affect the little that they have).

:hugs: and happy Valentine's Day to everybody :)


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## MBABY2014

Thanks buB!!!


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## babadespls

nicolew412 said:


> I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/
> 
> My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.
> 
> However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.
> 
> Happy Valentine's Day!
> 
> - Nicole

Oh my, I feel like I just wrote this, My DH is exactly the same, he is also ADHD and used to smoke to calm him, he is also hyper active, he has quit but its been very hard. I have also read that it does affect sperm production, actually causing testicular failure. 

This is what I read (tried to post a link but it wont let me)

*Testicular Failure

Another cause of azoospermia is testicular failure, which is the inability of the testicles to produce enough mature sperm. Causes of testicular failure include chromosome problems, diseases of the testicle, and injury to the testicale. Undescended testicles at birth or frequent and heavy use of marijuana can also increase the risk of testicular failure. This can occur during any stage of sperm production. The testicle may not have the cells necessary that divide to become sperm cells, or the sperm may be unable to fully develop and mature.*


I know not everything we read is accurate but hey, its got him to stop, but I do believe that it has a part in it, could it perhaps be a combination of a whole lot of things I wonder.


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## gem10

Thinking of you Bub!


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## bubumaci

Thank you Gem! :)

Well, I have one beautiful starting to hatch blastocyst (grade AA) and one beautiful Morula (grade A-) on board. There were two others still under surveillance to perhaps be frozen tomorrow :)

On the picture, you can see the blast starting to hatch - on the monitor right before transfer there was a little bit more coming out.

So praying that one or both are settling in for the long haul now :)

:hugs:
 



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## MBABY2014

Awesome BuB!!

When is transfer?


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## MoBaby

Those embryos look so good!!!! I'm excited for you!


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## NikkiR143

babadespls said:


> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/
> 
> My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.
> 
> However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.
> 
> Happy Valentine's Day!
> 
> - Nicole
> 
> Oh my, I feel like I just wrote this, My DH is exactly the same, he is also ADHD and used to smoke to calm him, he is also hyper active, he has quit but its been very hard. I have also read that it does affect sperm production, actually causing testicular failure.
> 
> This is what I read (tried to post a link but it wont let me)
> 
> *Testicular Failure
> 
> Another cause of azoospermia is testicular failure, which is the inability of the testicles to produce enough mature sperm. Causes of testicular failure include chromosome problems, diseases of the testicle, and injury to the testicale. Undescended testicles at birth or frequent and heavy use of marijuana can also increase the risk of testicular failure. This can occur during any stage of sperm production. The testicle may not have the cells necessary that divide to become sperm cells, or the sperm may be unable to fully develop and mature.*
> 
> 
> I know not everything we read is accurate but hey, its got him to stop, but I do believe that it has a part in it, could it perhaps be a combination of a whole lot of things I wonder.Click to expand...

That's very interesting!! Who knows really? I don't think there's enough research on it to know if it really makes a difference or not, but it can't hurt to stop using. If anything I'm hoping stopping can help my DH at least get enough sperm in his semen to avoid a risky testicular sperm extraction surgery on the day of egg retreival.


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## babadespls

I would like to ask for some advise please.

First a question:
Have any of your husband got high FSH levels where all other hormones are perfectly normal? and if so, did they find anything viable during the biopsy?

We decided not to do the biopsy straight away, as we wanted to try out vitamins and change of lifestyle for 3 months then another SA, and if that is still 0 count we would go ahead with the biopsy.

But... now DH said maybe we should just jump ahead with the biopsy now and get answers.

What would you do?

I think I'm just trying to prolong it and give it the best chance as I don't think I can take bad news right now... but on the other hand could there be some sperm in there and we could get this IVF/ICSI on the road already. Feeling confused about what to do.


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## MBABY2014

My hubs was 16 ( a bit high) and all other normal hormones
He was also diagnosed with OA

TESE/Biopsy was successful as I am having ER Tom- hope they are viable for fertilization!!!

We had him on supplements from Nov-Jan; if you can wait 2-3 months it's not a bad idea to see if the supplements can help
I would also rec him going to see a fertility specialist...


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## MBABY2014

An acupuncturist fertility specialist ( is what I meant)


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## babadespls

Thanks MBABY.

So there is hope then. 

My husband was diagnosed with NOA, this is very confusing for me.

Goodluck for tomorrow and keep updating :)


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## MBABY2014

NOA and OA- either there is hope

Someone told me that FSH under 20 there is a 40% chance of finding- but I'm not sure if this is for biopsy or TESE? Are you doing both?? We did!

What is your hubby's FSH?

Stay positive and hopeful!


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## gem10

Bub, those look great! We never got to blastocyst stage, so it looks like you are in good shape. 

MBaby, did you use the Berkley center in NYC? Thats who we had our consult with. Probably going to do the herbs and try accupuncture. We just have to find one by us. I did accupuncture for four months, but he said it was pointless that DH shouldve been going. I just thought maybe it would help them implant. Anyway, going to do that and whatever the urologist recommends as far as meds go.


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## babadespls

MBABY2014 said:


> NOA and OA- either there is hope
> 
> Someone told me that FSH under 20 there is a 40% chance of finding- but I'm not sure if this is for biopsy or TESE? Are you doing both?? We did!
> 
> What is your hubby's FSH?
> 
> Stay positive and hopeful!

Hubbys FSH is 20 on the dot.

I'm new with all this terminology :wacko: so all the Urologist was talking about was a biopsy, not sure what method it is, maybe he means TESE? He said that he has to be under for the procedure... these are questions that I still need to find answers to.

I am really going to try and focus on positive thoughts :winkwink:


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## MBABY2014

GEM:
We used/using Angela Lee at 5th Ave fertility ( 86/5) LOVE HER!! has a Great reputation and almost acts as a 'therapist' to help with make important decisions!!

She gave all the supplements to my hubby
Do you guys live in NYC?

What RE are you using?


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## MBABY2014

Yes! I have been trying to stay positive/ I have found this forum a great outlet for info and support!
I am glad to help in anyway I can..

I got the final green light for Tom AM ER

Today my RE predicted 10 eggs
Lining was 11.5 
2800 ( around there) E2


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## gem10

No, we live about an hour and a half north of NYC so we need to find someone local. But Mike Berkley of the Berkley center said he would work closely with our acupuncturist if we cant find a fertility specialist, and I havent been having any luck so far! 

Good luck tomorrow with ER. Its nothing to be nervous about. I have cramps when I wake up, they give me some pain meds and I.am fine after that! No biggie! Looks like you have a good number of eggs too!


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## MBABY2014

GEM
I will ask Angela if she knows anyone ( if you would like)
Are you in Westchester? If you give me a general area to ask her about....

Also I can give you the list of supplements
In the meantime I would buy fertility blend on Amazon...I had hubby on them as soon as we got 1st 0 SA results... Reviews on amazon are great

Granted- I think we will see if all these things helped in a few a weeks but I'm staying positive!

Do you think a 25ml seems big???


----------



## bubumaci

Mbaby - good luck with the ER tomorrow :) :dust:


----------



## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Mikihob-yes, my husband mentioned doing the same thing. He is getting a little anxious as he is 36, and really doesn't want to wait too much longer to have kids. He said that he is ready and willing to use DS now and work on him in the meantime. He said, You're a mother without a baby. I'll do whatever I can to fix that. Which, of course, made me cry. He really is amazing.
> 
> We used Fairfax when we chose our donor last time. We didn't have any luck with the face recognition, and we even tried lots of different pictures. But we never did call anyone for help. You mentioned paying $200+ for full access, does this give you full access to adult photos? We never saw what our donor looked like as an adult, just a silhouette, which also kind of scares me. DH wasn't comfortable seeing pictures as adults, but I feel like I have to in order to feel comfortable.

Hi Gem. Yes the $200+ gives you access to adult photos if they have them available. Most of the donors have adult photos but some don't. If you pay the $294 you get full access to ALL info on however many donors you choose during the 12 month period. You can see their med profiles, family profiles, all photos, etc. If the donor number has a camera icon under it that means that donor has lifetime photos available. Lifetimes photos are a collection of 6 photos from childhood to adulthood. I am trying to make sure all donors I see have that because I want to see their adult photos. I think if you click their donor number and look at their info it should say if they have an adult photo or not. 

The facial recognition software is VERY touchy. My DH's facial features change slightly when he smiles. His eyes go up a little and his cheek bones get a little wider, so it will alter his match. You should take a series of photos of your DH from no emotion, to slight smile, to medium smile, to smile, to extra happy smile and try each one. If you pay the $294 you will have 12 months to look at all the info from each high or med (or low) match donor you find with each photo. Otherwise you have to pay for each individual item for each donor, it could amount to $1,000's. I plan to pay the $294 and then upload tons of photos and find all the high matches I can. After I find them review all the info and compare the photos maybe even utilize the pro's Fairfax has to help find the best match possible. 

With that $294 you also have the "buy 5 get one free vial". You get an almost or $600+ vial free! 

I hope this helps. Let me know if you want any more info about Fairfax. I have gotten myself prepared for the bad news in DHs SA in March. I know I should be optimistic, but that optimism kinda dies after so much devastating news.


----------



## MBABY2014

Thanks Bub


----------



## sharon99

Good luck, Mbaby & Olive! Thinking of you both today...

Gem, we were sort of the same way- DH did not want to see adult donor pics, and I did. Although, our case was a little different... I felt strongly about matching DH's ethnic background (he was a little more ambivalent). That already narrowed the field quite a bit, and once I added in family health and educational background, I pretty much knew which donor I wanted to go with, and DH was on board. I wanted to see adult pictures just to make sure he looked fairly normal (he did). DH didn't want to see, and he still hasn't. I figured as long as the donor has the same coloring (dark hair, dark eyes, - and as a lady at our infertility clinic called it, "mocha skin" :) ), it would be OK. I figure people will see what they expect to see, and people that I don't tell about DS won't even question it. It's like in the movies, where you accept that Meryl Streep is Julia Roberts' mother, because that's the narrative you've been given. And anyway, weird recessive genes can pop out with any family.

We used Xytex, and I found a weird loophole that let me see some donor pictures for free. Let me know if you want any more specific information about that.


----------



## MBABY2014

Ouchy!! In pain ;(
Hopefully it will all be worth it - we got 12 eggs!!

Fingers crossed for fertilization report Tom


----------



## bubumaci

Rest up Sweetie! Congratulations on getting 12 eggies! That's wonderful! I am looking forward to your fertilisation report today :) :hugs:
:dust::dust::dust:


----------



## arzoo

Mbaby thats great. 12 eggs .

Quick update from me, we had been to see the FS and he reviewed my blood results and suggested that I go on a antogonist protocol. Currently calling around the various pharmacies to find out which one works out cheapest here in the UK. Current Pharmasure, have few more calls to make this morning. 

Rainbow, what is the update from you? have you got confirmation on the mtese dates? 

Good luck every one.


----------



## Olive333

It's a negative for me.


----------



## bubumaci

I am so sorry Olive :hugs: :(


----------



## Hopeful Cat

So sorry Olive :hugs:


----------



## Hopeful Cat

I had embryo transfer today...2 5day blastocysts transferred. Of the 24 sperm and 24 eggs we got 12 to fertilise and by day 5 we have two transferred and 5 others still alive. They r going to grow the 5 til tomorrow and then evaluate them for freezing.

Feeling hopeful we arel 4th time lucky.


----------



## arzoo

Really sorry to hear that olive. Hugs


----------



## MBABY2014

So soeey Olive- I'm thinking of you!!

Cat- that sounds hopeful! Were soerm from TESE?

When if your 1st blood test?


----------



## bubumaci

Those numbers are very promising Cat!! Still having 5 growing for evaluation tomorrow + the two transferred blasts today - I am excited for you! Grow little embies, grow!!! :dust::dust::dust:


----------



## Rainbow123

Hmm. this could perhaps be the reason my DH is azoo as goodness me, he used to smoke weed A LOT for quite a few years 



babadespls said:


> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/
> 
> My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.
> 
> However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.
> 
> Happy Valentine's Day!
> 
> - Nicole
> 
> Oh my, I feel like I just wrote this, My DH is exactly the same, he is also ADHD and used to smoke to calm him, he is also hyper active, he has quit but its been very hard. I have also read that it does affect sperm production, actually causing testicular failure.
> 
> This is what I read (tried to post a link but it wont let me)
> 
> *Testicular Failure
> 
> Another cause of azoospermia is testicular failure, which is the inability of the testicles to produce enough mature sperm. Causes of testicular failure include chromosome problems, diseases of the testicle, and injury to the testicale. Undescended testicles at birth or frequent and heavy use of marijuana can also increase the risk of testicular failure. This can occur during any stage of sperm production. The testicle may not have the cells necessary that divide to become sperm cells, or the sperm may be unable to fully develop and mature.*
> 
> 
> I know not everything we read is accurate but hey, its got him to stop, but I do believe that it has a part in it, could it perhaps be a combination of a whole lot of things I wonder.Click to expand...


----------



## MBABY2014

Thinking of you bub


----------



## Rainbow123

Just been catching up on here as haven't been on for a while. 
I'm so sorry Olive. I'm not sure that it will make you feel any better, but a friend of mine told me that ladies she knew who went through fertility issues said that the roads to their babies were absolutely awful, however now they have their babies they wouldn't have had it any other way because those are the babies they were meant to have. They couldn't imagine a life with any other babies but those they were finally given. It sometimes helps me to think about it that way. 
Lots of love XXXXXX


----------



## MoBaby

Olive so sorry :(

Hopeful sounds like a good report. Fx you will have some frosties!


----------



## NikkiR143

Rainbow123 said:


> Hmm. this could perhaps be the reason my DH is azoo as goodness me, he used to smoke weed A LOT for quite a few years
> 
> 
> 
> babadespls said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/
> 
> My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.
> 
> However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.
> 
> Happy Valentine's Day!
> 
> - Nicole
> 
> Oh my, I feel like I just wrote this, My DH is exactly the same, he is also ADHD and used to smoke to calm him, he is also hyper active, he has quit but its been very hard. I have also read that it does affect sperm production, actually causing testicular failure.
> 
> This is what I read (tried to post a link but it wont let me)
> 
> *Testicular Failure
> 
> Another cause of azoospermia is testicular failure, which is the inability of the testicles to produce enough mature sperm. Causes of testicular failure include chromosome problems, diseases of the testicle, and injury to the testicale. Undescended testicles at birth or frequent and heavy use of marijuana can also increase the risk of testicular failure. This can occur during any stage of sperm production. The testicle may not have the cells necessary that divide to become sperm cells, or the sperm may be unable to fully develop and mature.*
> 
> 
> I know not everything we read is accurate but hey, its got him to stop, but I do believe that it has a part in it, could it perhaps be a combination of a whole lot of things I wonder.Click to expand...Click to expand...

It's interesting to think about, right? They say things like too much heat, steroids, etc...can cause azoospermia, and once stopped or the source is removed than fertility is repaired. So it makes me wonder, if weed really does make a difference? I guess we'll find out soon, when he goes in for another SA. I'm not expecting much, but it would be promising if he at least had a higher count than his last SA which was only 5 sperm total.


----------



## MBABY2014

Ok ladies!
We got 12 retrieved-10 mature-8 fertilized!!

Wooooo hooooooooo

Transfer is set for Thursday the 20th.....
Any pointers?


----------



## sharon99

Olive, I am so, so sorry. Sending you many hugs.


----------



## sharon99

Congrats to everyone on the great IVF news! I'm very happy for you all, and fingers crossed for wonderful outcomes!


----------



## bubumaci

That's a fantastic report Mbaby!!! <3
Sounds like a three day transfer, is that right?
What sort of pointers were you thinking of?


----------



## MBABY2014

I don't know honestly- still in a lot of pain unfortunately- I hope I am ok for Thursday!!


----------



## gem10

Im so sorry Olive. This just sucks!! Thats really all I can say. I got my BFN two weeks ago and still find myself crying. It just isnt fair. Our time will come...it has to.

Congrats MBaby, Bub and Hopeful..very exciting!


----------



## MBABY2014

Thinking of you Gem and Olive

Gem- any luck with finding an acupuncturist?


----------



## Hopeful Cat

MBABY2014 said:


> So soeey Olive- I'm thinking of you!!
> 
> Cat- that sounds hopeful! Were soerm from TESE?
> 
> When if your 1st blood test?

Yes hubby went in for second mTESE to get these sperm. First time they got 11..this time 24. We were very happy.


----------



## MBABY2014

I'll be thinking of you this week... When us your beta?


----------



## snd80

Olive - :hugs: So sorry!!! Thinking of you!!!

Loads of *GOOD LUCK* MBaby and Hopeful!!! :dust:


----------



## MBABY2014

Thank you!!

Your beta is high- you thinking twineys???


----------



## snd80

MBABY2014 said:


> Thank you!!
> 
> Your beta is high- you thinking twineys???

Um, yes... and can I honestly say (without _any_ complaints WHATSOEVER cause Lord knows I am SO grateful!) that I am scared shitless!!!!!!! :wacko:


----------



## Hopeful Cat

MBABY2014 said:


> I'll be thinking of you this week... When us your beta?

Thanks mbaby. My beta is schedule 1st March. Not sure if im going to b able to resist the pull to POAS but hubby would be furious so ill try not to :haha:


----------



## MBABY2014

Mine is 3/3 and I think I might do it at home 3/2 bc I have jury duty on 3/3 lol


----------



## MBABY2014

SND I hear ya!!!! Did you put 2 or 3? Can't remember...


----------



## Hopeful Cat

MBABY2014 said:


> Mine is 3/3 and I think I might do it at home 3/2 bc I have jury duty on 3/3 lol

Oooh exciting! Ill be thinking of u also then :)


----------



## Mikihob

DH's SA and bloodwork is going to be done on 3/7/14 but our appointment to hear the results won't be until 3/25/14. I am already going nuts to see if the past three months of injections are working and now I have to wait even longer for the results!! 

I hope they can get us a sooner appointment. ARGH!! I REALLY want to know if its helping so we can move forward. :dohh:


----------



## Stinas

snd - Don't worry&#8230;.if it is twins, you don't know any different so all the testing and extra visits is just normal&#8230;&#8230;.plus its a bonus because we get a ton of scans that normal people don't!


----------



## tulip11

hello everyone 

We got chromosomal test results and it came back normal so our next appointment is scheduled in May. Does this normal chromosomal test results gives any hope ?


----------



## snd80

MBABY2014 said:


> SND I hear ya!!!! Did you put 2 or 3? Can't remember...

2!


----------



## MoBaby

Snd twin would be great!! I secretly wish I had twins!! I'm thinking just one healthy baby but it could be twins with those numbers!! :) I had high betas also but just one snuggled in...Cant wait for your ultrasound to see whats going on in there. You feeling okay?


----------



## Olive333

I have a question. I took a cycle off after my first failed IUI. Today is CD1 for me and was thinking of taking a month off. Have anyone of you ever read or heard if either way is better? Doing IUI's without a break or taking a cycle off in between?

I just don't know what's best. I kind of feel I need a bread and not think about getting pregnant, but at the same time what about if taking a break is the problem?

Thanks


----------



## bubumaci

Olive - I honestly don't think that taking a break can be the problem. If you feel you need one, then take one! Do, what's best for you, physically, psychologically! xxx


----------



## arzoo

Olive this is a tough question, on one side you have the eagerness to proceed and on the other some people say it is good to take a break to help the body recover from the high doze of hormones injected specially if you had the ET in the same cycle as the ER.

I had my laparoscopy and Hysteroscopy in Jan end, and was contemplating if I should skip a month in between to help me recover better and then do the IVF (this is our first time). But the doctor seem to think that these procedures seem to increase the chance of IVF success rates.And these days , apparently some people go for mock hysteroscopy to increase their changes. I know how bizzare. Anyway we took the decision to go ahead in my Feb cycle as the wait is getting to me.


----------



## MoBaby

Olive: IUI is essentially like natural TTC (except the part where the catheter goes into your cervix :) ) so taking a break really wont change things / affect things. But mentally if you need time, then take this month off. Mental breaks never hurt.


----------



## silverbell

Just popped in for a rare catchup of the last couple of pages.

Snd, my friend, I am over the moon for you. Huge congratulations. Enjoy it x :kiss:


----------



## Rainbow123

Mbaby, Hopeful and Bubumaci - sounds really positive for you all! :-D How exciting! :-D Will keep my fingers, toes etc crossed for you all! 

Arzoo - Sorry this has taken me so long to reply! I barely get a minute to come on here at the moment! We've still not heard about our mTESE date. It's bloody awful waiting, especially since we THOUGHT we would be hearing a week ago. I might phone them tomorrow to see whether they've got any ideas when we will be hearing as every time the phone rings I think it's them, and I'm stressing myself out by constantly thinking 'today will be the day we get the call'! Will let you know when we hear, thank you for asking. XXX


----------



## MBABY2014

Well- change of plans for me

Were moving to a day 5 transfer on Saturday!

We had a few nice looking embryos and bc we only want to put 1 in they want to wait...


----------



## MBABY2014

Rainbow- sometimes you have to bother people to get what you want... I would call


----------



## snd80

Mo- I will take whatever the Lord blesses me with no doubt, but twins scares me!! Plus my hubby will be pretty much the stay at home dad and I don't think he's ready to take care of two! He's made that very clear that I'd have to hire him some help! LOL!

SB- Thank you sweetheart! It's just so sad that you aren't along with me! :cry: I think of you all the time and I promise if it's more than two, you will be flying your butt over here to get one!!! :flower:


----------



## Rainbow123

Eeeek! How exciting for Saturday MBaby! :-D
X


----------



## MoBaby

Mbaby thats great about a 5 day transfer! yay!


----------



## tigerlily1975

:hi: everyone! 

Just popping in to see how everyone's doing. 

SND, THAT is the most amazing news!! :wohoo: So very, VERY happy for you, darling! :happydance: I hope you and bubba/s are doing well. Seriously happy for you guys!

Congratulations to the other ladies here who've had such wonderful news - I wish you all a happy and healthy 9 months :hugs:

For everyone else still still chasing their dream, please do not give up hope. There are many of us who have walked in your shoes and have managed to get there - even when we were at our lowest and only had thoughts of giving up. Stay strong and keep hoping :hugs: :hugs:

Many :hugs: :hugs: to all, 

C xx


----------



## MBABY2014

Mobaby-just read your whole blog!! What a journey! I wish you all the best!!


----------



## bubumaci

MBaby - wishing you all the best and thinking of you today for your transfer :) :dust::dust::dust:

Rainbow - thinking of you, I hope that you get really good results!!! :hugs:

Hi Ladies :wave:
I just wanted to report some good news from the testing yesterday <3.
In the morning, I decided to test (which I never do) and got a beautiful :bfp: on a digital HPT (sensitivity >25 mIU) and the results from the blood test look good too ... just praying, that the numbers rise as they should for the next beta on Monday morning... please keep your fingers crossed :)

So currently, I am on :cloud9:
Yesterday, I was 11 dpo (6dp5dt):
 



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## MBABY2014

amazing need buB!!

SO I'm officially PUP0

1 blast went in today and I'm just praying!! Will find out if I get any frosties tomorrow!!


----------



## rdleela

Congrats, Bubu! and yay for being PUPO, mbaby!

congrats to everyone else I've missed, there has been lots going on here lately!

I hope everyone is doing ok, and finding hope in all of this good news.


----------



## MoBaby

MBABY2014 said:


> Mobaby-just read your whole blog!! What a journey! I wish you all the best!!

Thank you for reading it!! Yes a crazy journey but i wouldn't change it looking back.. I think we go through things for a reason. I need to update it. I've been slacking a bit on that.

Congrats on being pupo! I pray this gives you your bfp and you have some frosties!


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Congrats bubu..wonderful news !

Yay for being pupo mbaby! :)

Im now 5dp5dt and really wanting to test..I know its early but its irresistible in this tww. We got no frosties this cycle...24 eggs and no frosties. Gutted. All my hope lies in these two little embryos that should be implanted by now. No crazy symptoms either. Im just tired and crampy with headaches. Nothing new.


----------



## keziah23

I know I haven't posted here in a really long time (so feel free to tell me to go take a hike, I'll totally understand) but I just had to share this with people who will get what a big deal this is. 

We had our egg retrieval for IVF yesterday and DH decided he wanted to try a fresh sample after making some changes to his diet and medications. Well he gave his sample and imagine my surprise when they came back and said there were swimmers! They asked him to give a second sample to see if they could get more and they must have gotten at least 7 because of my 9 eggs retrieved 7 were mature and fertilized via ICSI with his FRESH sperm!!!! Only 4 fertilized normally but this is such a HUGE deal for us!!! 

I'm going to try to catch up the best I can with everyone's stories since I've been absent.


----------



## MBABY2014

Wow Kezia- that's AMAZINGGGGHGG


----------



## bubumaci

Hopeful - when are you going to test / when is your beta? :dust::dust::dust: to you Sweetie!!

Keziah - Congratulations, that's wonderful news Sweetie! Fingers crossed that the four develop nicely for you :) :hugs::dust::dust::dust:

AFM - Beta #2 tomorrow morning... am pretty nervous about it, really hoping that my numbers are going up well... please keep fingers crossed for us :)


----------



## Stinas

keziah23 - amazing news!!!!

BUBU - Good luck tom!!!! Cant wait to hear all about it!


----------



## MBABY2014

Fingers crossed BUBU!


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Goodluck bubu.
My beta is on Saturday...seems like it will never come.


----------



## bubumaci

Hello Sweet Ladies!

I am very excited to be able to announce that my HCG more than tripled since Friday ... it is really happening ... we have another Azoo pregnancy <3 <3 :happydance: :cloud9::cloud9:

We are going to show Azoo where it can go!!!! :hugs:
:dust::dust::dust: to you ladies, Hopeful, fingers tightly crossed for you Honey!
 



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## tulip11

hi

we received genetic chromosomal results which came back normal so does it mean something in future will work for us ?


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## MBABY2014

Omg BUB!!! How wonderful!!!!

I hope I can join you- just found out this AM we got 4 frosties!!!!!!
&#10052;&#65039;&#10052;&#65039;&#10052;&#65039;&#10052;&#65039;


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## MBABY2014

Tulip-It is for SURE a step in the right direction!!! 

What's your next step?


----------



## tulip11

MBABY2014 said:


> Tulip-It is for SURE a step in the right direction!!!
> 
> What's your next step?

thanks .

We got an appointment in May so lets see what they will say as that would be out first appointment with fertility specialist .


----------



## gem10

Bub, over the moon for you. You certainly deserve some good news after all of your tries. So happy for you. MBaby, congrats on your frosties!


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## MBABY2014

Thanks Gem
Been thinking of you! How are you? Did you find an acupuncturist?


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## MBABY2014

Tulip/ was your hubby diagnosed with AZzo?
If so- I would try to get him on some supplements as your wait for your May apt!


----------



## Rainbow123

OH MY GOODNESS BUBUMACI! THAT'S AMAZING! I'm SO happy for you! :-D :-D :-D 

MBaby - How exciting to be PUPO! When do you get to test?

Keziah - that's wonderful news! Yey!

Hopeful - Hang on in there, it'll be a long week but not long to go now! :-D

Gem10 - How are you doing lovely? Thinking of you XXXXX


----------



## bubumaci

Thank you :) :hugs:

MBaby - that's great news that you have some frosties!! :dust::dust::dust:

Tulip - well, we had the chromosomal testing done right at the beginning and everything was fine. It certainly is a good thing, not to have to worry about passing something on to a baby ... our road was long, but we have made it to our first :bfp: - so I would say, it is promising :)


----------



## MBABY2014

Rainbow- my beta will be 3/3- a week from today

Anyone know when the earliest I could/should test or shall I just wait??


----------



## tulip11

bubumaci said:


> Thank you :) :hugs:
> 
> MBaby - that's great news that you have some frosties!! :dust::dust::dust:
> 
> Tulip - well, we had the chromosomal testing done right at the beginning and everything was fine. It certainly is a good thing, not to have to worry about passing something on to a baby ... our road was long, but we have made it to our first :bfp: - so I would say, it is promising :)

Thanks and congratulations have H & H 9 months :)


----------



## tulip11

MBABY2014 said:


> Tulip/ was your hubby diagnosed with AZzo?
> If so- I would try to get him on some supplements as your wait for your May apt!

Yes he was diagnosed with azoospermia. He was on wellman supplements but didn't work out.


----------



## MBABY2014

Check out Fertility blend on amazon.. It has great reviews!

I also have a long list from the acupuncturist my husband saw- send me a PV and I will give you the names of supplements


----------



## Hopeful Cat

MBABY2014 said:


> Rainbow- my beta will be 3/3- a week from today
> 
> Anyone know when the earliest I could/should test or shall I just wait??

I tested 10dpo because I knew it ws prob too early but I might get lucky. It was bfn. So now going to try to wait until morning of betA which is saturday. I think 12dpo is fairly accurate? From what ive read anyway...never had a bfp myself. Im currently 12dpo :) but im avoiding chemists so im not tempted lol.


----------



## MBABY2014

I'm too nervous!
I think I might test the am of beta (Monday)

Have you been feeling anything?


----------



## Hopeful Cat

MBABY2014 said:


> I'm too nervous!
> I think I might test the am of beta (Monday)
> 
> Have you been feeling anything?

Yes ive had cramping on and off. Boobs hurt on and off. Felt dizzy yesterday. Throat is sore today. Was feeling good up to that point. Then last night when putting crinone inthe applicator came out with a bit of dried blood..there is more today. My world came crashing down and now im terrified af will come today while im at work. If It does then im going home early. Either way im testing tonight to end the misery. This was our last chance for biological children. No frosties. Nore more mtese in near future. Hubby wants to try donor sperm next. Im not ready. This sucks. Im screaming inside. I didnt even make it to beta.

I hope u have better luck!


----------



## bubumaci

Sweetie, don't fret about old, dried blood. If you have an embryo or two nestling in, capillaries can burst and you can get some old blood coming down. Also, perhaps the crinone / applicator have just irritated the cervix. Dizziness, sore throat, are not bad signs. I have my fingers crossed for you! :dust::dust::dust:


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## MoBaby

I bleed from the vaginal progesterone. That stuff is awful!! Don't give up yet!! Fx for you.


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Thanks ladies. Im trying to stay positive but its extremely hard. Im so used to negative results so that's what I expect.

My throat is killing me today. It'll b just my luck that I get a negative, have to deal with af AND get sick.


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## MBABY2014

Hopeful cat!! Please stay positive!!

Sticky vibes to you!
Keep us posted!


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## Hopeful Cat

Bfn on hpt. 4 cycles with total 55 eggs and 35 sperm = 16 embryos fertilised = 6 embryos transferred = 0 BFPs and 14 lowsy frozen unfertilised eggs. There is no hope for us. No longer 'hopeful cat'.

I'm broken.


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## Hopeful Cat

Oh and found out today that my grandfather-in-law is on his death bed so im flying to scotland tomorrow. Bad things come in threes right? Bfn, dying relatives and im sick. Guess thats about right.


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## bubumaci

Sweetie, how many days past transfer are you and what HPT did you use? Are you going in for a blood test?
I so understand what you are feeling - but - if there is going to be a blood test, please wait before feeling that it is hopeless! Don't ever lose hope ... If I remember correctly, DH was open to donor sperm? Think about it - if this hasn't worked ... maybe you guys just need a break - it is such a nerve-wracking, taxing (physically, emotionally and physiologically) process ... I really want to take you in my arms and hug you!
You are both still so young - gather your energy ... discuss it ... but please don't give up!

You know - before we got our BFP now (and I mean, a BFP doesn't mean that I will be taking home my little miracle at the end, so I am still very cautious about it, even if I do feel good about it) ... we had a total of 88 eggs retrieved, 75 eggs mature and 56 fertilised (total transferred : 20 embryos) - so I really do understand what you are feeling, I know how hopeless it feels ... I wasn't prepared to give up yet (admittedly, I did say at the beginning of the year, since I will be 40 next year, if we don't have a pregnancy by the end of the year, then I am not doing this any more) and I am soooo happy that I kept going and going.

Please, you guys are still so young ... don't you give up your hope! :hugs::hugs::kiss:

*edit* I just read about your Grandfather-in-Law ... I am so very sorry! Yes, there are some years that are simply horrendous, where you just don't know where to get the strength from to keep going (mine was last year - BFN in April, paternal Grandmother died May 10th, my Mother died May 31st, BFN August, Gallbladder out in September, BFN in December) - I literally burst into tears when it turned midnight to 2014, that that year was finally over, I was so relieved - the hope, that this year would bring something better. I wish you lots of strength Sweetie ... don't let it get you down - and we are here for you as best as we can be!! :hugs:


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## babadespls

bubumaci said:


> Hello Sweet Ladies!
> 
> I am very excited to be able to announce that my HCG more than tripled since Friday ... it is really happening ... we have another Azoo pregnancy <3 <3 :happydance: :cloud9::cloud9:
> 
> We are going to show Azoo where it can go!!!! :hugs:
> :dust::dust::dust: to you ladies, Hopeful, fingers tightly crossed for you Honey!

This is amazing, congrats, you give me hope!


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## rdleela

Hopeful cat, I am so sorry!! Bubu really said it best!! Xoxo


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## gem10

Hopefulcat, my heart goes out to you. None of this is fair. Same thing happened to me...didnt even make it to Beta. In a way, I found it somewhat easier than hearing it from the doctor though. I know first hand theres not much any of us can say to help. Give yourself time to feel whatever it is you need to feel. Just know we are here for you if you need to vent. 

When I started thinking of donor after this round failed, part of me was gutted, while the other part thought, this will bring me my family. I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make. I have been thinking of you all day.


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## arzoo

Hopeful cat , feeling very bad for you. I can imagine how difficult this time is for you. Some times in your life you just go through a rough patch. Just hope you have seen the last of it. And things start being positive from now on.


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## MBABY2014

So sorry Hopeful cat- thibking of you....


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## MBABY2014

I'm feeling discouraged... Feeling cramps that might be my P ;(


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## gem10

Dont lose hope yet MBaby! Cramps could be a good sign..they are very common during early pregnancy!


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## MBABY2014

Hi ladies
So my cramping has def become a bit stronger and and frequent over the past 3 days; however it is quite intermittent and feels a bit different more like poking and really low and almost further back towards my spine
Does any-of this make sense

I am 5 DP5 day- beta on monday


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## gem10

How are you holding up Mbaby?? Been thinking of you.

How about you hopeful? I am hoping you are feeling ok. Been thinking of you lots too!


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## MBABY2014

Hi GEM
Doing ok over here- cramping has stopped and not feeling a thing- actually feeling good and not tired at all.. Aka/ not feeling pregnant

I have been trying to remind myself that we have gotten SO far, from DH surgery to this and have had all positive feedback and results (which is so much more than I expected) ; so even if this doesn't work... I am super grateful and won't give up!

Beta is on Monday- decided not to test b4- don't want to be sad all
weekend!

How are you Gem? Have you and hubby looked into donor any further?


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## gem10

So sorry M. But it aint over yet!! Its great that you have such a positive attitude. Thats what I told my DH. We didnt get pregnant, but we still had a miracle happen when they found sperm when we thought it was impossible.

Right now we are taking a little break and getting back to us. This TTC really takes over your life. We are gonna work on getting him healthy them try again this summer when I am off from work, and he has recovered a bit. Still trying to get some money together for herbs, accupuncture and vitamins. Its just so expensive and we still owe for our last cycle. I am really just starting to be myself again, took about a month, but I have finally stopped crying when people ask how I am doing. So I guess thats progress!


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## gem10

Sorry for all the spelling errors. Stupid phone!!


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## MBABY2014

It ain't over till the fat lady sings...on Monday....lol

Glad that you are taking a break, and doing 'you'

Do you want the list of supplements our accupuncturist put my hubby on? It might be a good place to start while you guys get everything situated ;)
Let me know and I'll message you the list ;)

As for me- feeling the same, had #2 lutual blood work today- but won't get feedback. Feeling good- some on/off cramping feel like P could come any minute, but then it doesn't..,

Did all of the BFN ladies make it to Beta? I wonder if I make it to Monday if it is a good sign...


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## gem10

Sure, that would be great! Thanks, I appreciate that!

Glad you are staying positive. My first BFN I made it to Beta. Period came two days after I stopped meds. This BFN I did not make it to Beta, so its tough to call. But its always a good sign that AF hasnt showed! I hate her. Lol.


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## MBABY2014

She's the worst- I'm nuts and my heart starts besting every time I go to the bathroom and I wipe ( TMI) and I'm afraid to see her...

As soon as I get home I will send you the list...


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## bubumaci

I'm afraid I can't help you with the BFN before Beta - because I never tested. But my blood tests were always so early, that it was pretty pointless to do an HPT. But all the times I had a BFN, I never got AF until a few days after I stopped the progesterone. :hugs:


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## rdleela

I did 3 Clomid/progesterone cycles, all those cycles I never got AF until I tested BFN, stopped progesterone and 3 days later AF showed.

My IVF cycle on progesterone, I started spotting quite heavy 3 days before beta, and got my period in full force one day before beta. I think it's cause my E2 levels were sky-high and my body was not accepting of an embryo.


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## sharon99

Hopefulcat, I'm so, so sorry. You've had to go through so much in such a short period of time. Sending you healing vibes.

Mbaby, thinking of you! You're not nuts- having to use the bathroom during the TWW would set my heart pounding too! Maybe this won't work for you, but last time I refused to look after I wiped (TMI). It stopped the heart palpitations, and I felt a sort of strange glee at tricking myself! Seriously, I turned into a crazy person. Wishing you lots of luck on Monday!

Gem, I agree- breaks can be so good for your mental health. We took several months "off" just to think things through, and I hadn't felt that calm and balanced for like, the previous year.


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## deafgal01

Hopeful- my heart goes out to u.

Mb- hang in there. Hope the beta gives u good news to look forward to.

Sorry if I haven't been around much, been hard lately so been not checking in much as I struggle to cope at times. Thinking of maybe following up with counselor soon, even if she only validates my feelings as normal for this type of journey.


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## MBABY2014

I'm literally so scared for Tom ;(


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## deafgal01

:hugs: mb


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## arzoo

Hopeful Cat, and Gem hope you both are managing ok. 

Mbaby, Good luck

Rainbow: any update on your dates?

Some update from me , we move on to the next phase in our journey, the mTese is scheduled for mid March (in 2 weeks time), based on how I respond to medicines. We have seen the FS and also the urologist and we are all set and but extremely nervous.

I have read in many of your posts and seen from your signatures that many of you here have had multiple mTese. This gave me the hope that if things dont work out for us now, then we can try another time. I asked Mr Ramsey how long before we try again , in case we dont find any sperm and his response was that there was no second attempt and this was it. He said we were already pushing things too much. My heart sank when I heard this, I asked him why he would suggest this route over others who go on and have multiple mTese. His response was that , he has previously gone for more than one mTese for some of his patients but those were cases when he first operated on them and then asked them to take medicines and then tried another time. But over the years, he has changed his protocol and he does only one procedure after his patients have taken 3 months of tamoxifen.

He gave us the chances of success as 1 in 5 , 80 pct chance that my eggs would end up being wasted / frozen and said he wished us luck and that we were being brave by choosing to go ahead knowing well how low the chances of success are. After this meeting I became numb and felt like being pushed into another deep dark hole from which I just dint know how to climb out. To add to this, mom called to say , that another cousin was pregnant, I feel very jealous of all these people who can have pleasurable sex and at the end have a baby after few months of trying. We sat down last night to fill the consent forms and it was very painful, not the questions as such but the fact that we are not a normal couple and were about to have just one single attempt at trying to have what we want most in our lives . DH described the next 2 weeks as though it was a trial at the end of which we would know the verdict.


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## bubumaci

Oh Arzoo, how heartbreaking for the doctor to put it like that :(
But I think, we just have to believe ... and I really hug you for going for it. One of my philosophies in life is : if you don't ask / try - it won't happen... the worst that can happen if you do, is that you fail - and the best, that you succeed.

I will keep my fingers and toes tightly crossed for you Sweetie, that your respond well to the meds and that the mTESE in March brings you lots and lots and lots of :spermy: that can also be frozen for future use!!! :hugs:


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## MBABY2014

It's a negative for me...


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## bubumaci

Oh MBaby, I am so very sorry ... Sending you huge :hugs::hugs::hugs: :(


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## Olive333

MBaby - I'm sorry it didn't work out this time.

I have been feeling really down and defeated. I just don't know if I have it in me to keep trying and feel this pain every time. Financially is a strain to not put a limit to our attempts and I just don't know what to do. We are trying to take a break and focus on our relationship that has suffered through all of this. I have become a totally different person. I'm sad all the time and at the verge of crying. I see a baby and feel a pain that I can't believe people have to go through it.


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## Mikihob

I am sorry mbaby. :hugs:


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## MBABY2014

It's hard- it's so hard...


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## babadespls

MBABY2014 said:


> It's hard- it's so hard...

I'm so sorry MBABY, I have been quietly following your progress and thinking of you.


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## arzoo

I am so sorry mbaby


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## Miraclbaby

mbaby I m so sorry to hear that. warm warm hugs to u.
A couple weeks ago I stopped researching and reading about mTESE. It makes me nervous and impatient. I focus on all the positive things in my life. But today I came to see ur result. I m so sorry that it didnt work out. Hopefully next time u ll get a big fat positive!!! baby dust to all of u!!!


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## Mikihob

Update from me:

DH has his 3 month SA this Friday, March 7 to see if his injections have helped his azoo. BUT we couldn't get an appointment with the doctor for the results until March 25. They are trying to get us in sooner, at least for the results, but they don't think he will be available. ARGH! :dohh:

How are my beautiful azoo ladies doing?


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## bubumaci

Oooooh Miki, fingers tightly crossed for you both Sweetie! I find that really bad, that they want to make you wait so long for the results. Ridiculous! I hope they can get you in earlier! xxxx


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## MoBaby

That is crazy to wait that long!! Maybe you can call into the nurse and get prelim results?


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## gem10

MBaby, I have been thinking of you. Give yourself time to get through this. Its ok to cry or get mad. This whole situation that we are all in just sucks!! I found on average it took me three to four weeks before I snapped out of my "funk". On the bright side you have oome frosties waiting for you!

Mik, that is ridiculous. I dont see why they cant just call with the results! I swerr these people have no idea what it feels like to be in our shoes. 

Sharon and Bub, how are you two feeling?


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## Mikihob

Mobaby I plan to call the imaging center and see if they will release the results to us so that we don't have to wait. I sure hope they will. The results should be ready the same day but my doctor wasn't even able to get it until the next Tuesday so maybe the Wednesday after I will call. :winkwink:

Gem I don't think they understand. Most hospital employees with the exception of some who have been "infertile" think that we are just impatient and can't wait for the doc to call. Um, hello....this stuff is pretty important. 

Thanks for all the words of encouragement. :hugs:


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## sharon99

Mbaby, I am so sorry. And Olive and Deafgal, I'm sorry that you're both going through such a hard time. It sucks and it is not fair. I hope you're able to vent and cry as much as you need to, and can find your way back to a healthy place. It's so much to endure.


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## sharon99

Gem, I'm feeling "good" (as in, not good, so good :) )- thanks! My first appointment's in 2 weeks. It seems like a long time to wait, but after everything being so medical & science-y for so long, I was ready to feel "normal" and natural for a little bit.

How are YOU feeling?


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## arzoo

As you all have said, its so unfair, why cant things turn out positive for us. 

Mbaby, wish you success with the rest of your frosties. 

Sharon glad to know you are in a better place. Good luck with your appointment

Mikihob, it is very frustrating that nurses and medics can be so insensitive to our anxiety. 

Yesterday, a friend of mine, who is going through fertility struggles of her own was admitted in the hospital due to hyper stimm. After hearing what she had been through and the dangers she was exposed to, I am very nervous about my case. The doctor had given me all the prescription and put me on a 21 day long protocol but something made DH uncomfortable so we went back to see the doctor again, he reviewed my file and said I was someone who had a high risk of hyper stimm and changed my protocol to the antagonist one. How could he miss all this in our first visit, what if we had not gone back to him again. I went for my first scan and the nurse instructed me to take 150 mg of medicine, I remember seeing it as 125, I asked her to check again and then she realised it should have been 125 ! I feel so nervous and scared at this negligence, specially after being warned that it is our only one change. Doctors who see so many patients going through similar condition as us, may not appreciate the fact that it is just our one chance. I know there is no point in getting anxious about things, all I can do is , trust and hope things will be ok for us.

I am trying to put on a brave face because I am see DH is very nervous and does not have hope of a positive outcome. Every time I think that we may not find any sperms I just want to start crying.


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## bubumaci

Gem, I'm doing OK thanks!
Still not believing that it is happening ... we had our scan on Monday to make sure that the amniotic cavity is there ... and there it was, a perfect little dot - with the beginnings of the yolk sac inside.
Next week Wednesday, is the next u/s to make sure that we see the heartbeat... Once I see that, I might allow myself to start feeling some excitement.

Other than that - feeling tired - don't get through the day without a nap or two. And waking up at unearthly hours of the morning every morning like clockwork (mainly to go to the loo *lol*).

Arzoo - I do find that a bit disconcerting, that they are missing so much! OHSS can be very dangerous, yes. I have had mild OHSS this time around - post ER, then it did calm down by transfer and then two days after transfer, flared up again. By my betas, my ovaries were very sore and I was extremely swollen ... it has calmed down - but at the ultrasound on Monday, the doctor could see that my ovaries are still big and that there is fluid there. (And I have been on the antagonist protocol each time).
If you do not feel comfortable and well-looked after at that clinic, I am not sure I would *just go ahead with it*. Make sure that they know your concerns. Make sure that they acknowledge that this is your one shot at it and that they need to take this seriously - and if you still feel uncomfortable, then make sure you end up with someone you do feel comfortable with! At the clinic I am at, the first two ICSIs and 5 transfers we did with one doctor ... and I found I just wasn't happy with him. We switched to our current doctor after that and we are very happy with him. It is so important, that you do feel confident that you are getting the best advice and the best treatment!

I will keep my fingers crossed for you Sweetie! xxx


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## deafgal01

Gee that is dangerous when the dr has all that info and still neglect to notice small details like that of high risks!!!


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## arzoo

Good luck Bubumac for your scan on wednesday. Really happy to know things are progressing well for you.

Thank you Bubumaci for sharing your experience . I did consider if we should go elsewhere but the issue is , DH is being seen by the best urologist in UK, (so we are told) and for a synchronised cycle we have to go private and the urologist does private with this hospital. 
You mentioned you have done more than one ICSIs, does it all involve multiple micro tese? If not, what was the procedure for sperm retrieval? Our urologist thinks we should only do one mTese


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## bubumaci

Actually, this TESE was the only one that DH has had. When we first went to the clinic in 2011, they wanted to see if they could get any sperm ... and the spermiogrammes were really bad. So he was sent to a Urologist who also had him offer up a sample and checked him from tip to toe. Our clinic had originally said, that the next step was likely a TESE - but the Urologist did not think it was such a good idea, because sometimes DH produced nothing, and sometimes a little (but with very poor quality). He said the risk was too great that nothing would be found. He wanted to try DH taking Tamoxifen first, to see if it made a difference (had had success with a few men who also had non-explained infertility - non-obstructive azoo / serious oligospermia) - so that is what happened. In Spring 2012, DH took Tamoxifen for 6 weeks and ... I cried so hard when I saw the results : 13 Mio sperm and 8% motility! They froze 6 straws.
In June 2012, when they did ER, he offered up a sample and they were able to find enough swimmers to fertilise ... but nothing developed very well even though the fertilisation rates were good. In September 2012, they thawed one straw, because he didn't produce - again good fertilisation results but not great development. Then we switched doctors and saw the new one in November 2012. He suggested taking a break, DH taking Tamoxifen again for 6 weeks and me taking some supplements and trying again in February 2013 cycle. Well I ended up with 23 eggs at ER, so danger of hyper-stim ... and the Tamoxifen did absolutely nothing. They were able to use the fresh sample to fertilise, but the results were back to the bad results. In July 2013 we tried again ... again fresh sample was enough to fertilise ... development was OK (had two lovely blasts at transfer), but it would seem - in hindsight - that they were genetically defective, as it resulted in a chemical. November 2013 - same thing again ... first sample DH provided was not good, so he had a second go and with that they found enough to fertilise - again we suspect that the chemical was due to genetic defects.
So for this try, our doctor wanted to see if we could retrieve better quality sperm directly from the testes. And that is why DH had the TESE done. ... as it happened - they found practically nothing and what they did find looked really bad (so bad morphology) - which is why they thawed two straws from the sample back in Spring 2012 and used that for fertilisation.

I don't know what happened and I am not going to question it - since I am over the moon that we have got our BFP - but it really would seem that we had a freak success in April 2012 with the sample and are really lucky that they froze 6 straws (3 straws left) back then, which - because the TESE didn't work - we used this time round.

Due to the quantity (lack thereof) and quality (lack thereof) of DH :spermy: we had to do ICSI every time...


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## deafgal01

I don't mean to be nosy but what are the signs or risks that points to hyper stim? Just wondering.

I am doing great yesterday and so far today. Still waiting for my cycle this week though. Blah not looking forward to that cuz my mood goes with it when that happens.


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## bubumaci

You're not being nosy :hugs:

Actually - I had / have mild OHSS with this try.
Basically what happens - if you have several follicles - is that your ovaries are worked really hard. Too many can result in hyper stimulation - the signals : swollen ovaries, pain, bloating ... by the time of transfer, my OHSS symptoms had died down, but flared up again two days after transfer (I believe that is when implantation happened), HCG can cause OHSS. My ovaries started feeling really swollen, started hurting and I began getting really bloated. So much so, that I looked around 5 months pregnant! This would tend to get worse towards the evening and I felt very sore. The peak for me was around the second beta, my ovaries really hurt.
At our scan on Monday, the doctor could see that both ovaries are still really big and he could see fluid around the ovaries. If you look at the scan picture on the left below, the bottom right hand corner, you can see some black areas next to the neck of the uterus - that is fluid from the hyper stim.
In fact - I am not one of this people using HPTs before the blood tests (because mine were always so early) - but DH was so concerned about my bloating already in the morning, that I used one (at 11 dpo, 6dp5dt - the morning of the first blood test) - a digital and it came up positive.
It can become very dangerous if the OHSS become moderate / serious - the bloating becomes even more extreme, weight is very rapidly gained (I have kept an eye on the scales and it has stayed within limits) ... the fluid build up can cause breathing difficulties, you can get thrombosis ... if there is too much fluid (and breathing difficulties), then the fluid has to be drained in the hospital.

Perhaps something to make you smile - on the left picture, you can see a black, pea-sized shadow in the uterus ... that is our amniotic cavity. On the picture on the right, you can see it all enlarged, the white blob in the middle is the beginnings of the yolk sac - the embryo <3 We have called it "Pünktchen" - which essentially means sweet little dot :)
 



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## arzoo

Thank you Bubumaci for sharing the details. Glad you found enough sperms to freeze and use again.

Deafgal : I dont know for sure what the symptoms are , but can share what my friend said she went through . Initially it started with her throwing up for a day, then she noticed she had constipation and started feeling blaoted and gaining weight rapidly (1.5 Kg / day) and also started feeling breathlessness and extreme fatigue. She went to the A &E immediately.


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## Rainbow123

Hi ladies! Sorry I've not been on for a little while, been trying to keep it together waiting for our dates by trying to forget (doesn't really work, but always good to try!).

Firstly, MBABY - I'm so so sorry to hear your results. Hugs flying their way across the ocean to you XXXXXXXXXXX

We FINALLY got our phone call today regarding our mTESE dates. The flipping surgeon is just starting up at the hospital and I'm quite sure he's been messing the nurses around who wanted to let those of us on the waiting list know when the operations would be, but it seems they only found out today! We've ended up waiting an extra 3 weeks on top of the original estimate of 1 month until we'd know!!!
ANYHOO, get this for short notice, apparently it's going to be the last week of March! We are both in shock about how soon it is, but really excited to be finally starting the process. We should have a definite date by the end of this week, but the nurse at the IVF clinic just wanted to give us a heads up that this should all be getting started VERY soon!

Arzoo - that's so annoying about the hospital messing you around like that. At least you have the information you need to check everything, but you shouldn't have to feel like you need to check up on the professionals. Grrr.

Bubumaci - I absolutely adore those photos and your nickname for your little dot! Seriously cute!

Love to all XXXXX


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## arzoo

Hello Rainbow, I am very glad to hear that the wait is over and you have a date. We also went through the same shock when we got confirmation that the mTese will be in March, that is despite knowing it would be in my march cycle. Wish you all the very best. Hope it works out fine for both of us.

MBABY, how are you ?
How is everyone doing today ?


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## bubumaci

Rainbow - that is so exciting that it is all in an couple of weeks! ... Oh girls, Arzoo, Rainbow, my fingers are so tightly crossed for you both... this just has to be a good month!!! :dust::dust::dust:


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## melissaelaine

Hey all! It's been a while since I've been around. We've been pushing through and keep hoping that things will move along. DH has been on clomid since December to try to get his testosterone up, which will hopefully increase his sperm count. While his testosterone is up, his sperm count hasn't improved much. But, he has some, which is good. At his most recent appointment, he had 14k with 27% mobility. Based on those numbers, the doctor still recommended doing tese. He goes again in 2 weeks for another SA, then 2 weeks after that for an appointment with the doctor. We're aiming to start our cycle in April.

For those who have done tese, have you all done it the day of your egg retrieval or have you done it in advance and frozen the sperm? I think we would do it the same day, from what I have gathered.

Good luck to everyone!


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## bubumaci

Hi Melissa :)
Both are possibilities - the one time my DH had a TESE done (this last try), it was done on the same day as my ER (however they found nothing that they could use, so frozen sperm was thawed for the fertilisation).
But I do believe others have had sperm retrieved through TESE frozen and then thawed for ER at a later time ...

Wishing you all the best! 27% motility is already a great number! I hope that the SA in two weeks gives you even better results :) :hugs:


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## rdleela

Rainbow, yay!!!!! It's FINALLY getting started for you!!! :happydance::happydance:


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## MBABY2014

Just wanted to check in and say hi

Hope everyone is doing well...

Xoxo


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## deafgal01

Doing fine over here. Had a date with husband last Friday and omg I cannot remember the last time when I did that without talkin about our infertility journey or babies. It was really nice! My mood is better lately too- I feel more me if that makes any sense for the first time since being on fertility drugs for that one cycle. What a mess!

I gave up trying to decide if my period is back to normal or not. It still doing the same thing since the cycle after these drugs which is med bleed one day, light bleed second day, none or spotting the rest of two days.


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## gem10

At a stand still here: ( How are you holding up MBaby? Olive?


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## bubumaci

What are your next steps Gem?


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## gem10

We are waiting until the summer. Urologist said we needed to wait 6 months to do Tese again. In the meantime, hubby has appointment with a infertility specialist in Chinese medicine this week. Hopefully he will start herbs next week. I feel useless. I am still eating healthy but I have welcomed caffeine and alcohol (in moderation) back in my life. Feel a little guilty, but I need to atay sane until the end of this school year. Trying to live a "normal" life for the next fee months an not obsess over TTC if that makes sense.


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## arzoo

Good luck Gem.

Bubumaci how are you doing. 

I went for my scan this morning. Still we are no closer to knowing the MTese date. It could be this Saturday or Monday. Follicles growth is slow. Very nervous. Can't even think about how to deal with things if things are not positive.


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## bubumaci

I think it is really important to try to live normally, Gem. This journey can so easily take over our lives and the little, normal things in life are important!

Arzoo - that is so close! How exciting. Please try to think positively - negative thoughts and worrying don't do any good ... be positive, with the knowledge, that you can deal with things if they do go pear-shaped - but that you will think about it and deal with it then. 

I am doing OK thank you. Had another scan this morning and were thrilled to see that a little blob was pulsating away, its heartbeat at 118bpm, measuring 4,3mm long :) Am released from the clinic now (which made me kind of sad, considering the long journey we have had - I hugged our doctor) and have to make "normal" appointments :)
 



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## arzoo

Bubumaci, aw.... those scans look cute. I can picture you hugging the doctor :)

Thank youi for the words of encouragement. I am trying my best to remain positive and even got a compliment from DH for that last night. He said he expected me to be really difficult to handle with the hormones but said I was much better than I am normally . Poor guy. This morning after the scan as I was walking back to my office (yes I am lucky that there is a centre just 10 minutes walk from work, so makes it easier to go for scans without taking time off work and disruption to work) I walked past 4 pregnant women and I was almost in tears by the time I reached my office. But this time I reminded myself , who knows what trouble each one had to go through to get there.


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## bubumaci

Interesting, isn't it ... when we struggle so hard for a baby, we don't take it for granted and I found myself thinking the same way... Originally hurting each time I saw a lovely swollen pregnant belly to thinking - I wonder, did they have to struggle like we are struggling?

DH and other people have also always said, what it something goes wrong, if it doesn't work, if there's no heartbeat etc. etc. and I just say, I only want positive thoughts and positive feelings - I don't want anything negative coming my way. I am well aware that nothing is guaranteed, that things can go wrong ... and I will just deal with them if they should happen. Until then, I want to be happy and enjoy this!

BTW - I really would recommend that hypnotherapy site - it does wonders for your state of mind (I used the IVF-Companion until last week Monday, when we saw the gestational track and then switched to the Pregnancy Relaxation) ... I find it helps me in all sorts of situations :)

https://www.natalhypnotherapy.co.uk/6.html


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## MoBaby

Bubu your little bean is awesome!!! It's a very sad moment when you leave your re... I cried!! But it's also very happy at the same time. I understands your emotions.. I feel like when you have multiple failed cycles and multiple visits etc it becomes all you know so to be realeased to a regular ob is so weird!


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## Olive333

Gem - we are just living life for now, not really thinking of a baby at the time. We are going to start with some herb stuff and see what happens. At this point we have decided to wait on using DS. We have a nice trip coming up in a few months and started sewing doll clothing for my niece, so have things to look forward to and keep me busy. I finally got out of the depression I was in after the last negative IUI. At this point we really are just hoping for a miracle and trying to live day by day. I was so depressed thinking of everything in the future and I really was just torturing me. I still have my moments of sadness, but I'm not a walking zombie anymore and that is a start.

Thanks for asking


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## gem10

Glad to hear it Olive. You sound like you are in the same place as us. Its almost like you stop living your life trying to conceive. Its nice to take a break. I do agree that I still have my moments, but no longer crying. Feeling like myself 
again. Im glad to hear you are doing better and vacation sounds fantastic!!

Mbaby, how are you?


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## MBABY2014

Hi everyone!!
It's been so quiet on this board- as for me- I'm ok
Surprisingly- I've been ok, I have my sad and angry moments, thinking this is just not fair and why couldn't it work... BUT.. I'm staying positive.

I met with my RE Last Friday and again on Wednesday to discuss FET. On Friday we went through my whole protocol- said I reacted well to
Meds, triggered with a good level, got a good number of egg, had 80% fertilization and 5 of them made it to blasts!!! He was truly amazed by that, given we had no idea of the sperms ability... So he is hopeful, in fact, he said knowing what he knows now, he's more hopeful than before. The real
Question is, why didn't it stick? Was it me?! the embryo? The sperm? I just don't know...

Because of my mind OHSS, we will be going for a natural FET. No medications except progesterone supp after the transfer. So now we are in the monitoring stage, he said a few follicles all measuring 7 and lining was 7 on Wednesday, which was cycle day 7 ( wow lots of 7's) and hope he will see them a bit bigger on Monday. If I do end up ovulating on my own, we will do the transfer 5-7 days after ovulation. We will now put in 2 little Eskimos....and pray for the best!!

If I don't O on my own- I guess we wait till April ;(

So that's my story- I think I will know more next week.


I'm glad to hear you ladies are doing well, taking a needed break and having some time for yourselves. Hubby and I just started this journey in December/January-so I'm not quite ready for a break. In fact all I can think about is starting a family......


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## Mikihob

Hi ladies.

Update from me. Although our call with the doctor isn't until March 25, the hubs went to the hospital and retrieved the records from his SA on March 7. ZERO. I am devastated I hoped that this FSH addition would yield at least some sperm. Now the realization that he probably won't make any sperm has really sunk in. I am heartbroken. I have wanted to have babies since I was 5 (my mom says that. lol) and now it looks like I will never achieve my dreams. Today is going to be a rough day. 

During our call on the 25th we find out about his blood results to see if his testosterone is rising. We are also going to buy the 1 year unlimited results for donor sperm. We want to find out if the face match is accurate and how close we can get it. Last week of May is his final SA. It will be the end of a 6 month regimen of injections. If it is zero, he will get back on his testosterone shots and we will jump into IUI. 

I hope you ladies are all doing well. As MBaby said this board has been quiet. I think about you all daily and pray that you are all doing well. :hugs:


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## bubumaci

Hi Ladies!

MBaby - I am so glad to read that you are staying positive! It is so important to try and do that, even though I know at times, it can feel like the hardest thing in the world :hugs2: And it is fantastic, that your RE is so positive! Ours kept saying that he really felt it would work, it was just a matter of time (as in, he didn't know how many tries it would take). He said, that if he thought otherwise, he wouldn't put us through it - and I believed him!
MoBaby got pregnant with a natural FET, so my fingers will be very tightly crossed - your results with your stimming and the fertilisation + the development of all embies really was fantastic! Having so many make it to blastocyst is not that common, so I do have very strong positive feelings for your FET :) <3

Miki - hi there! :hugs2: I am sorry to hear that the SA results now in March were so heartbreaking! Has it ever been a discussion to have a TESE done? Stinas twins coming soon are the result of sperm retrieved via TESE. 
Or is your only possible other route Donor Sperm? You will be a Mother. And you will be a great Mother! (I have wanted to be one forever too :)).

I haven't been that active on here, because I know what us Azoo ladies are going through and didn't want to be a constant reminder of happiness, when others are unhappy ... although perhaps it is also a reminder (just like MoBaby + Stinas) that there is a golden lining out there and even those of us struggling with Azoo can have miracles coming our way.
On Wednesday, we had our last ultrasound at the fertility clinic ... the little heart was pulsating away at 118bpm and so I was released to my OBGYN. On Wednesday, the little bean measured 4,3mm ... and today, when I was at my gynaecologist, it measured 6,2mm ... little bean has grown 2mm in 2 days - it just blows me away! And I HEARD the heart beating - which was just the most unbelievable sound ever! I thought I was in love beforehand - but now ... :cloud9:

Please take heart ... sometimes the journey is so long, with so many stones and roadblocks in the way ... but believe me ... the second you do get that long-longed for BFP - it is suddenly all so worth it!

:dust::dust::dust: to everyone on here! <3


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## arzoo

Good luck Olive and Gem. Glad you both are in a better place and able to deal with this better. Olive enjoy your holidays. DH and I went on a short break last month ( 3 days) and it really helped me cope with the anxiety of our procedure.

Mbaby good luck for your eskimos (thats a very cute way of referring to them)

Bubumaci - thanks for your post. Your posts always is encouraging and make me feel positive.

Mikihob, good luck for your DS research, though I hope you will never have to use them.

Had my scan this morning, all set for EC and mTese on Monday. DH came along for the scan today and we went for a coffee after that. It really enjoyed our coffee together. I am trying my best to remain positive and not have negative thoughts. But yesterday we got to know that next week DH will get confirmation that his team is being made redundant. This has been hanging over our heads for sometime , though it is not a surprise it is just another thing for us to deal with next week, along with knowing the results of our procedure.


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## Mikihob

Thanks for all the kind words. I appreciate each and every word. It helps my heart lift a little knowing that I have so many friends to talk to. 

Bubumaci DH doesn't want to do the biopsy or TESE. Originally we were going to do three months of testing and if it was zero do a biopsy. But DH has since said NO to the biopsy. He doesn't like pain and doesn't want to go down that road. Since testosterone injections can render men permanently sterile (he was on them for more than 4 years) the chances of him producing are VERY low. The FSH was thought to boost the production by "waking up" his pituitary gland. It looks as though the first conclusion of him being completely sterile was right on the money. 

Right now we are just going to see if the injections help. I have read that some men with zero results after T shots have been able to get some production after 5-7 months but they only had shots for 1 year. We will do an SA at the end of May and if he has some, we will continue the injections for another three months and he will freeze a bunch and we will do IUI/IVF. If it's zero again, it's the end of the road for a biological baby for DH. He still wants a baby and is now ok with the idea of donor sperm but we still pray that it comes back. Now the waiting game again. :dohh:

I am so excited about your precious dot!! Sounds like it's growing great and is healthy. I know you probably only care about it being healthy and happy but do you have a secret gender wish?? 

Arzoo good luck with the EC and the TESE. Is DH scared at all?? I hope everything goes well and he heals quickly. I pray that you will get your BFP this cycle!! 

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## bubumaci

Wow, Arzoo... Monday... that is just the weekend away :) I am so excited for you and think it is great that DH was there for the scan and you had a relaxing coffee! My fingers will be tightly crossed for you both on Monday! :hugs2:
I am so sorry to hear about the team being given their notice! How much notice does the company have to give? We had that at my previous company (in fact, I had to give the people in my team notice) and it is just one of the worst feelings ever :( I hate that you guys have to go through it :(

Miki - I totally get it! In fact, my DH was totally against it as well - but then for this last try he said that he did at least want to have tried it so that a) we couldn't say we hadn't tried everything and b) perhaps it would make all the different and c) perhaps the biopsy would even tell us where the infertility comes from. As it happened, they didn't find any usable sperm in there and the histological report indicated, that he was just probably born infertile :(
I had no idea that being given testosterone could cause infertility! What was DH given testosterone injections for 4 years for? If you don't mind my asking? That is so sad :( I really hope that the FSH will do something so that they can find something in May!!
I think the step moving to Donor is really difficult (I know my DH wasn't at peace with the idea) and kudos to yours, that he is OK with it ... but we will keep fingers and toes crossed, that the dream of the biological baby stays alive!
BTW. my DH was sore for a while after the TESE, but it wasn't too bad and has healed really well ... he was uncomfortable for a few days.

Well, I hope that the sweet little dot continues to grow like this (I was so proud of him/her today - sounds really silly, I know - because he/she measured the 4,3mm on Wednesday and then the 6,2mm today and the u/s at my gynaecologist said that I was 6w+4d along and the EDD is 3rd November - which is spot on considering the dates of ER + fertilisation etc. So I was feeling really proud, that my little baby is doing just what he/she is supposed to *lol*).
Yes - the only wish is healthy. DH is unable to be really happy and excited yet, he is terrified, that because of his poor quality sperm, that our baby will have something genetically wrong with it. He will only start believing that everything is OK, once the test results are in (in quite a few weeks, when we can have them). It's a shame. I am the other way around - happy, calm, excited ... and if we have to deal with something then, then I will...
As for gender... secretly, I have always preferred girl (and have loads of girls' names in mind) and DH would prefer a little boy. But at the end of the day, neither of us really care, as long as the little mite is healthy :) xxx


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## Mikihob

Bubumaci DH did a lot of drugs when he was younger, for about ten years. Married his drug dealer, had three daughters (two bio) and then she divorced him after 13 years because during her cheating she found "the one". During their marriage he slowly started to feel worse and worse. He went to so many doctors and had so many different diagnosis'. During that time he had a severe form of shingles, had his appendix out mere minutes before it ruptured, etc. He was a mess. lol. Finally about 5 years ago a doctor checked his T levels. The normal T range for men is 259-1100. HUGE range. His was below that initially (in May it was 259- barely in range) and the low T was responsible for the mood swings, lack of sex drive, cloudy head, lack of concentration, etc. You name the side effect of low T and he had it. They started gel but it was gross so he switched to bi-weekly injections. He felt normal, started being able to lose weight, had sex drive and concentration and felt like a real person. He was never told that it could cause him to be infertile, and if they had back then (before we met) he might have still done it. He wasn't dating and didn't really want to at the time. He is miserable being off it but decided that he didn't want to look back and say, "We didn't try everything." 

He's been off since November 2012 and is being helped a little by the HCG/FSH injections but not by much. If his SA in May is still zero he will be starting his testosterone injections again while we move onto donor sperm. At least he will be back to his old self and we can still have babies. 

Its been a crazy journey. I learned A LOT more about reproduction than I ever thought possible. I always tell that I could be a fertility doctor now. Lol. 

DH wants girls (he had crazy boy nephews and calm daughters) I want both. If I had to pick I would choose a girl too. I have always wanted to dress her up and do her hair. I can picture the Christmas outfits now. lol.


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## deafgal01

Sounds like everyone is doing well. I agree it has been quiet lately. I have been pretty busy juggling a full time job with two part time jobs and it is taking its toll on my sleep so I am thinking I will prob give my notice first week of may to the full time job and ease out of that to focus on my part time jobs halfway thru may and on.

With that busy schedule I have not had time for drs or anything baby related which is a relief because I don't spend much time thinking about it and life is almost back to normal with me not obsessing over it anymore. Like one of u said- it is almost like life got put on hold to focus on the journey and that in itself was depressing me in a bad way so a break from Bnb was necessary. I had a date with my husband recently and was shocked that we could have a date without any mention of babies or infertility which is a huge step because I was always focused on that but now leaning towards trying to accept what life throws at us- which means I toy with the idea of maybe never experiencing pregnancy. I hate to think that way- not being able to have that experience but I am still open to adopting if things never pan out. Recently I mentioned during dinner one night casually about looking into home insemination since we do have a donor we know and not thru the sperm bank. Hub blew me away by suggesting I do a one night stand with this donor. But I had mixed feelings over that and felt he was feeling mixed too so I readdressed it the very next day saying I appreciated him giving me permission but I did not think we needed to cross that line if we could easily collect a sample from this donor and shoot it up in me privately. I think that made him and me feel better after i talked that over with the hub. So we will see what happens but for now it is on hold and I likely won't research into it until summer at the earliest.


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## MBABY2014

So great to hear from everyone!!

BuB- thanks for the encouraging words- I hope your right and this FET will be lucky... I'll know more about moving forward on Monday...


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## Stinas

Dg - that must have been really hard for dh to come to terms with. I remember a while back here, maybe a year or two there was another azoo girl that would have relations with her donor. I dk. I feel it will just cause other problems. I personally wouldn't feel right but, whatever floats your boat. 
With times things will happen....until then, try to enjoy your time with dh.....fertility talk free. 

Mbaby - be positive. FET do work!! Our TESE sperm did the trick....over a year later, but in life there are always bumps in the road that teach you what's important in life. 
I was thinking to myself how many years I have been waiting for a baby, now that my twinkles aes 6 weeks away I am petrified. Lol. Excited, but scared.


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## deafgal01

Agree with you stinas. It would only open a can of worms that is better off left alone. Or better yet Pandora's box. However I can see hub shooting the sperms up me so that is a possibility- that would be weird but at least he can say he had a part in it! I think once we have done iui and he held the vial of sperms, anything weird or awkward had become part of our infertility journey. I could never have relations in that sense with another person without feeling like I was cheating on my hub and I take my vows seriously.

I admit I did think occasionally of doing that from time to time and never mentioned it to hub so it just floored me when he said that. So yeah I think it was hard for him to say it and we both felt relieved when I said I did not want to do that but that we can google home insemination to do instead.


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## snd80

Morning Ladies! :flower:

I, too, have been trying to stay absent from the thread for fear of upsetting any of you girls still in azoo limbo hell! I know how I was during the wait, but know that I think of you girls all the time and truly know the struggles that come along with this horrible diagnosis. I have been following silently from the side lines though... It's still hard to wrap my head arounf the fact that I'm not the "bitter infertile woman" anymore! That's the only thing I've known for the past three years!!! :nope: But girls like Deb, Stinas, Mo, MJ and so many others kept me going strong with hope! So never give up!!!! :hugs:

DG- Bless your dh!!! I agree that that is going a little too far.... but at least he's trying!!! :hugs:

Sorry I cannot offer any input on the TESE and FET deal. But I've heard wonderful outcomes for both! Good luck!!!!!! :dust:

Donor is such a hard choice! It took mine a while to get used to the idea of it, but once we got started, it faded into the background as we focused on the outcome! Now I don't think it even crosses his mind where our peanuts came from!!! He'll say "my kids" or "my babies" and that sets me on :cloud9:!!! That's all I ever wanted!!!!

:hugs: to you all!!!! And LOADS of :dust: and :ninja:s to those in need!!!!


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## Pink Lolly

Awe SND congratulations on your news xxx


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## MBABY2014

Congrats SND- so happy that you have found your happy place and baby on the way!!


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## bubumaci

Mikihob said:


> Bubumaci DH did a lot of drugs when he was younger, for about ten years. Married his drug dealer, had three daughters (two bio) and then she divorced him after 13 years because during her cheating she found "the one". During their marriage he slowly started to feel worse and worse. He went to so many doctors and had so many different diagnosis'. During that time he had a severe form of shingles, had his appendix out mere minutes before it ruptured, etc. He was a mess. lol. Finally about 5 years ago a doctor checked his T levels. The normal T range for men is 259-1100. HUGE range. His was below that initially (in May it was 259- barely in range) and the low T was responsible for the mood swings, lack of sex drive, cloudy head, lack of concentration, etc. You name the side effect of low T and he had it. They started gel but it was gross so he switched to bi-weekly injections. He felt normal, started being able to lose weight, had sex drive and concentration and felt like a real person. He was never told that it could cause him to be infertile, and if they had back then (before we met) he might have still done it. He wasn't dating and didn't really want to at the time. He is miserable being off it but decided that he didn't want to look back and say, "We didn't try everything."
> 
> He's been off since November 2012 and is being helped a little by the HCG/FSH injections but not by much. If his SA in May is still zero he will be starting his testosterone injections again while we move onto donor sperm. At least he will be back to his old self and we can still have babies.
> 
> Its been a crazy journey. I learned A LOT more about reproduction than I ever thought possible. I always tell that I could be a fertility doctor now. Lol.
> 
> DH wants girls (he had crazy boy nephews and calm daughters) I want both. If I had to pick I would choose a girl too. I have always wanted to dress her up and do her hair. I can picture the Christmas outfits now. lol.

Oh Miki - I am so sorry! That must be awful for your DH :( :( I had no idea that taking testosterone could impact fertility (in fact, I always understood that lowering testosterone was worse - but clearly I was wrong).
That really is bad that he feels so bad if he is off the shots! :( My fingers will be crossed that it won't have been for nothing, that he has been feeling bad these several months! :kiss:

It's crazy, how much we learn about the process when having to go through it ourselves! My Father is always amazed, when I tell him about the treatment, the effects, why we do what during the treatment etc. etc. and what I am blown away by, to be honest (my knowledge of biology and what goes on for reproduction was always pretty good), is how little most people know! Not necessarily about IVF/ICSI and those treatments, but in general about reproduction. My FIL for example would never understand why, if fertilised eggs were transferred, why I wasn't pregnant. He was sure it meant that there was also something wrong with me. No matter how often I tried to explain that even healthy people may often have managed to fertilise, but in only about 20% of the time, it will lead to pregnancy...

My fingers are crossed for you Sweetie!

DG - I think it is incredible that you and DH have talked about it ... I think it shows that you have a very strong relationship. My DH used to say I should find myself someone else with whom I could have children, at the times when he got upset ... :( I agree with both of you, I think it is one thing to do an IUI with donor sperm and another thing entirely to sleep with someone else. And I also think - even if one thinks that one could go through it .. at the end of the day, I doubt any of us can predict how we will react, if we do go through with it. I remember that movie with Demi Moore, Robert Redford and Woody Harrelson, "Indecent Proposal" - the motives were of course very different, but had a pretty catastrophic impact. Not saying, that this what would happen to anybody doing it, but I think that "infidelity" even if agreed to by both parties, might psychologically have a much worse impact than originally anticipated... I couldn't do it - my hat goes off to anyone who can and whose relationship withstands it!


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## Mikihob

Hello ladies, 

DH surprised me by saying that we should go ahead with DIUI. He says that since his chances of producing are so low, we should try DIUI because he doesn't want to wait any longer. If he does start producing we can go to Seattle so he can freeze a bunch for later use but if he doesn't at least we aren't starting from scratch 2 months from now. 

We picked a donor, relatively quick actually. We used Fairfax Cryobank and utilized their face matching and found a high match. His medical and family history was uncannily similar to DH's. Even his heritage was the same as DH's. 

I am waiting on a call back from my doctor to schedule our pre-IUI appointment. I am not sure what all I have to do before we can move forward. 

I will let you all know when I talk to the doctor and get the info. I have been taking Clomid and it seems to be working this time around so I might be able to go unmedicated, with the exception of an HCG trigger, but overall unmedicated. But my next ovulation window is around April 17-18 and we are going on vacation on May 1 because DH's dad is turning 70 on May 4. Is it ok to travel right after an IUI?? Would it risk my chances of conceiving? I know if we do it, no horse back riding like I planned and no roller coasters and such. 

Thanks for your advice ladies. Hope you are all doing well. Updates??


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## MBABY2014

Glad to hear your hubby is ready- sounds like a step in the right direction

I met with RE again yesterday/ he saw a dominant follicle and my lining was 8.1- so he's hopeful I will ovulate on my own this weekend and we can move forward with a FET sometime next week! Yaya!


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## Mikihob

That's great MBABY! I am glad you are able to do the FET soon. That's great! Maybe having had a normal cycle before the FET will help with implantation. :hugs:


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## bubumaci

Miki - If ovulation is around 17/18th, then by the time you travel you will have implanted and be pregnant :hugs: So I wouldn't worry about it influencing conception in any way. That is so great and positive that DH has embraced this move! So happy for you that you were able to find someone so perfect so quickly! :)

MBaby - that is fantastic news Sweetie!! It is such a great feeling when things get moving again :hugs: FX'd for your FET :dust::dust::dust:


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## sharon99

Hi everyone! I, too, have been reading along, but like Bubumaci I didn't want to hurt anyone who is still in limbo. But, we had our first ultrasound this morning and everything looks great! We saw the baby move and the heartbeat- it was pretty amazing. There may have been tears shed. :) Bubumaci, you said something a while back about not allowing any negative thinking to enter your head, and that really helped me out when I started to feel stressed. So, thanks for that!

Miki, that's great that you're moving forward. Wishing you lots of luck with the IUI. I had to get some bloodwork done (an STD panel and bloodtype), and our clinic also required a session with a therapist to go forward with donor. And Olive and Deafgal, I'm glad you're finding peace. Deafgal, home insemination sounds like a great alternative- way cheaper than going through the clinic. I think lots of couples do this. I agree with everyone else, though- turkey baster sounds WAAAYY less fraught with moral dilemma and hurt feelings than the "one night stand" method. 

Good luck Mbaby! And to everyone else! Thinking of you all often. :)


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## bubumaci

That's wonderful Sharon! So very happy for you Honey! :) How far along are you now?
And I am so glad if I was able to help you :hugs2:

Thinking of all the special ladies on this thread and sending out lots of positive vibes and wishes to everybody :flower:


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## gem10

Congrats to everyone, lots of things headed in a positive direction for everyone, which is great news!! 

Good luck, Mbaby and Mik.

Deafgal, I have had the same thoughts from time to time. Why cant it just be easy, like the movies? Just find someone, do the deed and move on! But I feel the consequences outway the reward. Its just not fair!

Following quietly from the sidelines, sending positive thoughts to all


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## MoBaby

Hey everyone!! Baby boy Ezra was born at 940 am via non complicated c-section. apgars were 9 and 9. he weighed 6lbs13oz and 21"long. He is perfect and beautiful. I will share a pic later!!


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## deafgal01

Congrats mo yay! You are a momma at long last finally!


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## rdleela

Congrats MoBaby and welcome to the world baby Ezra!


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## MBABY2014

Welcome baby Ezra!! So exciting and so very happy for you MO!


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## Mikihob

Congrats on baby Ezra!! I bet he is perfect! :baby:

My doctor called me back last night and we discussed the DIUI. Today I need to contact the sperm bank and get some information about the shipping of the sperm and I need to go for a serum progesterone next week to be sure I ovulated as estimated. If I did ovulate yesterday that means two months straight my body did what Clomid was supposed to help it do! Which means my DIUI will be around April 18, 2014!! I am so excited and nervous at the same time. 

I know the chances of the first IUI taking is slim but I am still hopeful that it will work. I am trying REALLY hard to stay positive. Now to buy the donors vials. :thumbup:

What's a good number of vials to buy?? I have a buy 5 get 1 free deal but do you all think 6 vials will be sufficient??


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## Miraclbaby

congrats mobaby. Welcome ezra!! God bless you with health and happiness


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## sharon99

Congrats, MoBaby!!! So wonderful!

Miki, I think 6 should be enough. You can always re-order more if it's not. Did your doctor have a recommendation? And can they store the extras for you if you don't need them? We only ordered 3 vials because my doc wanted to try 3 unmedicated, then we would move on to some sort of medication.

Bubumaci, I'm just about 10 weeks now. :) You?


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## Mikihob

Sharon my doctor didn't give me a recommendation. In Alaska we do not have a cryobank. All of the sperm we buy has to stay frozen at the cryobank in Washington that we bought it from. When it's time for a cycle I have to call and place the order for delivery. It's $240 for the 1-2 FedEx and $45 for the release of the frozen from storage. It's a pain. 

Also, when I called yesterday to discuss my order with the cryobank I found out that my donor has 27 vials. I was shocked!! But at least if I have to start using two vials per IUI OR if I don't get pregnant I can at least buy more. Plus, they have a deal that if you aren't pregnant within four IUI's they will give you a free vial. 

Overall not a bad deal. I am waiting to actually purchase them and set up the April delivery until my period starts. If my period starts on time like it did last month than the Clomid is working and we can set the dates in stone. If it doesn't....I need to talk to the doc to figure out why. Here's to hoping it works again. 

Does anyone have advice for my DIUI cycle?? I have read so much about it I could probably tell the doc what to do. lol. Now that it is actually getting close I am a little nervous. 

Sorry for ANOTHER long post and as always THANK YOU lovelies for always giving me advice. I couldn't do this without you all!


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## bubumaci

@ Sharon - 7w+3 today ... get to see + hear little bean tomorrow (at least, I hope so, I hope everything is OK!)

Miki - that sounds like a really good deal to me. Can't offer any IUI advice I'm afraid - but it sounds promising that you can have so many tries (which I hope you won't need)!!! Wishing you the best of luck and sending lots and lots of :dust::dust::dust:


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## tulip11

hi everyone 
I hope everyone would be doing well and congrats to those who finally succeeded and best of luck to the rest who are still struggling with me. we got an appointment on 5th april which is about my hubby abdomen ultrasound I dont know what this has to do with azzospermia ?


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## bubumaci

Hi Tulip :wave:
I am not entirely sure - but perhaps they are wanting to check for blockages? To see whether the azoo that your DH has is obstructive / non-obstructive ...? For my DH they did an ultrasound to check that, but I think they did an anal ultrasound and not the abdomen - but perhaps that is why?


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## tigerlily1975

MoBaby said:


> Hey everyone!! Baby boy Ezra was born at 940 am via non complicated c-section. apgars were 9 and 9. he weighed 6lbs13oz and 21"long. He is perfect and beautiful. I will share a pic later!!

Massive congrats! :happydance:

I hope you and your gorgeous Ezra are doing well.

BIG :hugs:

C xx


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## tulip11

bubumaci said:


> Hi Tulip :wave:
> I am not entirely sure - but perhaps they are wanting to check for blockages? To see whether the azoo that your DH has is obstructive / non-obstructive ...? For my DH they did an ultrasound to check that, but I think they did an anal ultrasound and not the abdomen - but perhaps that is why?

hi
thanks . Congrats and have a H&H 9 months :hugs:


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## Olive333

Mobaby - Congrats!!! So happy to see women graduating from this painfull limbo that is TTC!!!


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## Olive333

Miki - I have had 2 medicated DIUI's, that unfortunately didn't take. We are waiting after our trip to continue. This time around I don't want to take a break in between cycles. I took a month in between due to the holidays. I don't think that was the issue, but I don't know. 

The first IUI was almost like a pap, but the second one was very painful and it took longer than the first time. I thought it was a good sign, but I was wrong. I actually only bought one vial at a time. This next time I might buy 3 and just pay the shipping every time I do the IUI. My office charges storage fees for more than 30 days and it equals to the same amount as the storage fees at the cryobank. I rather keep it at the cryobank even though it is expensive for shipping. I just don't know yet. I have several months to figure out how we are going to do things.

Another thing is that I really thought it was going to take the first or second time. Most women that I have read on forums take about 2-4 times on average. It was too painful to continue and receive another negative so we decided to take a break. We also want to save more money to afford more tries.

Good luck with your IUI's and hopefully you get your BFP soon :)


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## MBABY2014

Well not such good news over here- my lining shrunk and my FET was cancelled

Moving onto April- now I have to decide if I should do medicated cycle or not- RE thinks natural again- but I'm just not sure...


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## MoBaby

Sorry mbaby :( if you lining isnt cooperating the meds will help keep the lining stable. Maybe you should see moving on to that? Although I liked natural way more than medicated.


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## MBABY2014

Mobaby- did you do both? Can you tell me a bit about each? RE says he thinks it is not good bc I am just off my fresh IVF- but I'm not sure?


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## MoBaby

Yes I did both.... I did a full ivf and had a chemical then went into fet... First cycle medicated and I got my bfp... Never had lining issue but I started bleeding at 4 weeks and the re adjusted my meds but I kept bleeding... Baby was growing fine then no hb. Re felt like it was a medication issue. Next cycle re wanted natural but I decided to do medicated. Well I ovulated through the meds which is unheard of which confirmed my body doesn't respond well to the meds so we attempted a conversion to a natural bfp since I caught ovulation when it happened and I did get a bfp but it was a chemical pregnancy. Last transfer I went completely natural where you check for lh surge using opks. Surge was day 14 or 15 I think went to clinic next day ovulation was occuring, took hcg to ensure ovulation and to boost natural progesterone, came into clinic 5 days later had transfer. Idk if all clinics use progesterone on natural fet but I did crinone until 12 wks. I took oral after that to prevent preterm labor. But the natural cycle was so easier and I felt healthier and actually my uterus looked the best it ever had. I would only do natural if I had a chance to do it again.


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## Rainbow123

Congratulations MoBaby! Hope you and Ezra are doing well!

Sorry to hear you're having delays MBaby. Hope you are ok :hugs:

XXXXX


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## MBABY2014

I'm doing ok... Just trying to stay positive!!!

MO- thank you for the info....very informative and helpful- I'm just still so confused as what I should do.... I love the idea of natural and everything was so easy this month, but it didn't work out... So-?? My response to the IVF was good- but I've heard bad things about Lupron

What was your protocol for FET?


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## MoBaby

It was very simple: estrace tablets (6mg I think) daily for a min of 20 days then ultrasound and if looks okay schedule transfer. Once date scheduled start progesterone 6 days prior to transfer. Then transfer and continue meds to bfn or12 wks. No down regulation.


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## MBABY2014

Thanks MO!!

My RE will
Only do standard protocol- lupron/estrogen patches/poi

I think I'm leaning more towards natural at this point

How is baby Ezra???


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## MoBaby

hes good nights are a bit rough. he is nursing so so as due to him being breech his chin is a little pushed back and his palate is also which makes latching difficult but he nursed 2.25 ounces today at his appointment so although i have to latch him several times he is feeding well. thanks for asking! not back to birth weight just yet but hasnt lost anymore. its hard work but so worth it!


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## Mikihob

Olive my DIUI is going to be Clomid and OPK's. Usually my PCOS doesn't let Clomid work but this time around it is. I had my serum progesterone test done today. I should get the results by Friday or next Monday. 

Overall I am ready for the DIUI. I hope that nothing changes. If I don't get a period, than it's back to square one. GRR. My OB/GYN is used to women who respond to Clomid and ovulate on time. I am so complicated. lol. 

How is your break going? The wait for DH's meds to possibly work is a pain since it's so long, but it kinda helped take the mind off TTC a little. Not a lot because it's still my every waking moment's thought, but it did relieve the stress that we should be doing something now.


----------



## Mikihob

MBABY I am sorry that your lining shrunk. Is there anything that you can to help the next cycle? DO you have any dates for your April FET?


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## Olive333

Miki: I have my ups and downs with the break. I just want to stop thinking about baby stuff until later, but it's almost impossible. I'm feeling very negative about the DIUI's not working and that it might not work for us. I won't be trying again until October when we return from our trip.

I'm trying to focus on our trip and try to relax and have fun. Next month there will be 2 baby girls in our family so can't get away from the joy that babies bring to families :(

This is such a hard road to be in and how easy it is for everyone else to say to just continue life and not to worry about it. Be happy. Yes I want to be happy either way, but in order to be happy without a baby, I need to not want one and I don't know if I will ever there.

Keep us updated with your DIUI and hopefully you have better luck and will work for you soon.


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## Mikihob

It's hard to not think about it. My hubs teases me about how we can't go one day without talking about baby stuff. I am at the point I don't even realize I am doing it. 

Where are you going for your trip? I hope that you are able to enjoy yourself and feel a little more "free". If that's the right word. I hope that you don't have to be surrounded by those two girls too much. Hopefully you can see them, hug them and skip 6 years. (That's how I feel anyway...:winkwink:) 

I will update as soon as I talk to my doctor. I wish I had the results right now!! 

:hugs:


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## MBABY2014

Well- my RE thinks my lining thining is a direct result of coming off a fresh IVF cycle- and really believes I will be good to go for next cycle.

So after giving it some thought- we will go with his rec and give a natural cycle a another chance.

So for now- just waiting- till AF shows- should be around the 3- ovulate around the 17 and transfer around the 24th....

Going to do acupuncture, yoga, supplements and try to enjoy myself this month!


Glad to hear everyone's updates so keep them coming!


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## Mikihob

Advice request:

DH wants me to get an HCG trigger for my April DIUI. I originally didn't plan on it because (as long as this month is good too) I have been having 30 day cycles, ovulate the same day (ten days after last Clomid dose), and will be timing it pretty well. 

Do you think I should get the trigger? If I ask my OB/GYN he will prescribe it for me no problems, but I am not sure if I need to. If I ovulate fine. If I don't this month like I should then we will HAVE to do the trigger. 

HELP!! Thanks ladies!!


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## Mikihob

MBABY2014 said:


> Well- my RE thinks my lining thining is a direct result of coming off a fresh IVF cycle- and really believes I will be good to go for next cycle.
> 
> So after giving it some thought- we will go with his rec and give a natural cycle a another chance.
> 
> So for now- just waiting- till AF shows- should be around the 3- ovulate around the 17 and transfer around the 24th....
> 
> Going to do acupuncture, yoga, supplements and try to enjoy myself this month!
> 
> 
> Glad to hear everyone's updates so keep them coming!

MBABY I am supposed to ovulate around the 17/18. I will have my DIUI on the 18th probably so we will be in the 2WW together!! We are only off by 6 days. :hugs: I hope this one finally gets you your BFP!!


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## bubumaci

Puh, Miki, I don't know what to advise! I think I would try going naturally, if you have been ovulating regularly. Are you going to do progesterone supplements after the IUI?

:dust::dust::dust:


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## Mikihob

No progesterone. If my serum progesterone comes back that I did in fact ovulate than that should mean my progesterone is fine. I would think anyway. I can always ask my doctor about it when he calls with the results of the blood work. Is it something that I should take no matter what?


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## bubumaci

I don't know if you need to take it no matter what, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt. I'm pretty sure that with her natural FET (so ovulating without any medication then doing the FET) MoBaby also took progesterone supplements, as a sort of back up. I would ask.


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## Mikihob

Thanks for the info and advice. I will ask about Progesterone supplements when the doc calls. I would hate to not use them and then miscarry because of my lining or something. Does progesterone only come as suppositories?? I hate those. lol.


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## bubumaci

lol. I know that Mo switched to oral after 12 weeks, to prevent pre-term labour. So there aren't only vaginal suppositories. But I think they are the most effective, because they get absorbed directly through the tissue without having to go through the digestive tract first. :)


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## MoBaby

hey! i would do the trigger for 2 reasons: ensures ovulation and causes that follicle to boost progesterone production. i did a trigger for natural fet for that reason since timing is everything. i did vaginal progesterone b/c of mc hitory and ob switched me to 400 mg oral to prevent pre term labor. 400 is a high dose. but this isnt needed,


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## Stinas

Mikihob - I did progesterone in oil, which was a butt shot. I started right before transfer up until I was 14w pregnant.......something like that.....all I remember is that it was 78 days straight. Towards the end it hurt, but once you get the hang of it, it just becomes routine.


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## Mikihob

Is there a specific HCG amount for the trigger? I am going to ask my doc about adding the trigger just to make sure the timing is perfect and we have the added bonus of knowing the eggs released AND that we have the right timing. I don't know if he will go for it, but I can ask right?. :thumbup:


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## MoBaby

It's usually ovidrel 250 or novarel/hcg 5000 for iui


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## gem10

Hello ladies,

So an update from me. DH and I have been waiting on these herbs from an infertility specialist in Chinese medicine in NYC. We finally had our consult and he prescribed a concoction of herbs for my hubby based on our situation. For the first time DH seemed excited like we had a plan to help him. We also found an accupuncturist for him. It's community accupuncture so its much cheaper than others. So we finally had a plan!

Then the pharmacy calls today and says that the herbs will cost $1,050 per month and we were planning on three months! I just can't see how we can afford this. So now I feel like we are back at square one. Why would our next round this summer work if we aren't doing anything to have an impact on the quality of his sperm??(aside from the vitamins and chlomid hes been taking for 6 months which have done nothing). I just feel like we are back at square one. 

In addition, I called my mother for a little moral support and she says to me, "You know, this may just not ever work for you two. You do know that don't you?" I just don't see why she felt the need to say that. Don't you know I try my hardest to NOT think that every second of every day, I don't need that kind of negative attitude. I am trying to think positive and convince myself this WILL work somehow, someway. Like you always say bub, stay positive. I am back and forth on whether I should tell her that it hurt my feelings. I'm already the "crazy infertile lady" in everyone's eyes, like everyone is afraid to talk to me. But really, I'm fine, as long as these negative thoughts are not thrown at me. 

I just wish I had a magic crystal ball. If someone said, these herbs will change everything and it will work for you, I'd pay even more! But the herbalist said himself that DH's case is more of a severe case than he has ever had and he doesn't know if it will help. I just can't see spending that much money and it might not do anything. I'm still trying to pay off my last failed cycle in January, and that's only a couple hundred dollars. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I have been watching from the sidelines. I will continue to pray for positive results for those who are doing transfers soon and those who are still long away from that like me. :Hugs: to all.


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## Stinas

Gem - I'm sorry your mom made you feel that way! You keep trying everything until you feel you have exhausted every option! We kept trying....and we finally got our miracles. Don't give up because someone knocks you down!
If the herbalist said it may not work, and you can't afford it, don't do it right now...try it later when you can save up for it.


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## MBABY2014

Mik- that be so great to be so close!!

I will be natural FET- no meds and prog supp after transfer
I think you a IUI ( natural) you should make enough prog on your own.. I think...


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## MBABY2014

GEM- been thinking of you!!

I'm sorry to hear these things are so expensive!!

Did you take a look at my list from my hubby's fertility accupuncturist?


I also forgot to mention- I also went to a Chinese herbL doctor in Chinatown/ called Layfettes herbal ( will get you info)... He doesn't speak much English, but you can explain situation to him and he will make you a pavkGe of herbs for tea to brew. Think the consult was 50/herbs was 50 and that's for a week but I extended ours to two weeks.
Might be worth a visit and not too expensive.

What about taking to the person you went to and asking them to prescribe herbs within your budget... I know it wouldnt be all.. But I think some would be better than nothing!

Please don't give up hope- I'm not/ we need to stay strong and keep fighting!!

And yes- express yourself to your mom- she should know how you feel!!

Be well!


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## bubumaci

Gem :wave: I'm with Stinas and MBaby on that one ... keep trying and trying, as long as you can emotionally and psychologically manage. I think you need to know for yourself that you have really tried everything! As for the herbs, maybe there is a cheaper option?
Concerning your Mother - I am sure she didn't mean to make you feel bad. She is probably just worried that you (like we here all do) put all our hope in this and dream of our miracle babies at the end of it ... and for some people, the journey doesn't work. People who don't deal with infertility have no idea, that that thought plagues us all the time, but that we push it to the back of our minds in order to be able to cope and be positive .... that we need hope. Perhaps in a calmer moment, you can explain that to her and let her know, that you are well aware of all scenarios (sadly), but that you need to hope and you need to keep trying and that you need her support in this ... :hugs:


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## gem10

Thank you all for the advice and words of encouragement. Thank god I have you all to vent to, or I would honestly lose my mind.

Bub, I took your advice and some of your exact words to explain to mom how I am feeling. Its hard when no one knows what it feels like, so I guess the best thing to do is to educate them. 

Shopping other pharmacies to see if we can find herbs cheaper.

Bub and Stinas, do you feel like you did anything that madr a difference, or do you feel like its almost like luck of the draw that it worked. Just curious because I cant shake the feeling of helplessnes that we need to be doing more, or it will never work.


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## bubumaci

Hi Gem - did it help? Did you manage to have a good talk with your Mum and explain it all? It is very difficult for people who don't go through this to fathom.
My Parents-in-Law (mainly MIL) asked after the previous try, if we didn't want to give up and adopt. I said that there were a few other avenues I would want to explore (as I really wanted to experience pregnancy, giving birth etc.), but that as a final option, I would move to adoption ... but that I wasn't ready to throw in the towel yet. I think it is very difficult for the people who care about us to see us suffering and in so much pain and sadness...

To be honest, I really think it is a combination of many different things, all coming together. Including a huge portion of luck!
As we have clearly seen from our / my experiences, just because the eggs fertilise, does not mean that everything is OK and that they will develop into fully-fledged embryos. And that is just nature - in "healthy" natural cycles, it happens too and there is no pregnancy / chemical ... but because we follow the whole process so carefully, we are that much more aware of it.

From November until my try in December, I did acupuncture and drank chinese herbal teas. I didn't do that this time around, but perhaps it contributed.

Also, even though my thyroid levels were all healthy, there are studies that show, that a TSH value around or below 1 can help. By the time we had this try, the medication I was taking had kicked in and my levels were well below 1. This was "new" for this try. For November/December, the meds weren't working yet, as I hadn't been taking them long enough. Before that, my TSH was between 1,7 and 2,1 - healthy, but can impact TTC.

I have been taking various supplements for over a year now : 
CoQ10 in very high dosage (600mg) which aids cell regeneration
Resveratrol (also supposed to aid the cell development)
Zink (helps with immunity)
Vitamin D (my levels were slightly low)
Folic-Acid (higher dosage, as I have some trouble absorbing it)
Magnesium

Big different thing for me this time was doing hypnotherapy. I purchased the MP3s from the site : Natal Hypnotherapy - the ones for IVF and listened religiously every day from the first day of medication (track 2) and then from embryo transfer (track 3) until well after I had my BFP. Once we had seen the gestational sac, I purchased the MP3s for Pregnancy Relaxation and listen to that now religiously every day.
I found it helped immensely with my mindset. With using and "accepting" the medication into my body. With positive suggestion towards all parts of my body, the ovaries, the womb. It significantly improved the quality of my sleep and I was / am much more relaxed.

Our RE had said, that at my age, one can expect to have to have on average (when I was still 37) 7 blastocysts transferred, before achieving pregnancy. Once I had turned 38, this number went up to 9! I have stayed within that statistic ;)

Finally ... luck / nature! So many of the fertilised eggs will not be healthy, will be genetically abnormal, that their development simply arrests (and like I said earlier - that is not due to the treatment, that would happen naturally too - except we wouldn't know it!). If the transferred embryos - even if they look good - are not healthy, then even if pregnancy does ensue for a short while, it probably won't be viable.
So - yes, a big portion of luck, that a healthy embryo (or two) is transferred, that can develop in its new home...

If I look at my journey in a very sober way ... sure, we were at the clinic for 3 years - but we had 9 transfers. Since we know that we can't get pregnant naturally, I won't count the months in between - just the time that we have transferred fertilised eggs. If we think about it, that corresponds to 9 months of "successful" sex, where the sperm finds the egg and fertilises ... perhaps about 9-12 months of trying for a healthy couple? And I think when looking at it that way, is more or less the average time that a healthy couple will need to get pregnant (only just started looking at it this way when writing this post, but to me, it makes sense...).

Due to the fact that we are faced with a disability : infertility - we are helpless. Our only way to get pregnant is through medication, operations... getting help. And that makes it so incredibly hard, because we want to do everything in our power to get pregnant - and it is out of our hands :( :( ... so we can try to do our best - live healthily, take supplements, do what the clinics tell us and hope, that we will get lucky!
:hugs:


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## MoBaby

I'll comment on this too since we had 6 transfers. Dh sperm is basically non-existent but we always managed to have just enough for icsi. We didn't do the mtese b/c dh had 2 surgeries as a child that messed him up and we were afraid a third would wipe out what was left. He had the workup (except ultrasound) and has a slightly elevated fsh. We tried vitamins, hcg, clomid with no luck. Our first 2 icsi = bunch of eggs, bunch of embryos, only 2 blasts. Same for second. My egg quality is fine so we knew it was sperm issue. (I had 1 mc from 2nd ivf which is thought due to bad sperm since analysis of tissue was negative). We changed my protocol and dh stayed on vitamins (fertility blend, fish oil, zinc) and that 3rd icsi we got 6 blasts. We ended up transferring them all before our baby so total of 10 blasts transferred to get 1 healthy baby. In all honesty I feel it was just finding the best embryo from 1 strong sperm and 1 good egg. I wouldn't go the route of Chinese herbs b/c no one really knows the impact of those on the body and it could make things worse. I think with azo it takes patience and perseverance until the right embryo is found.


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## MBABY2014

Ahhh... Patience.. Your right Mo!!

Just need to wait for the right egg and sperm

We had 5/8 fertilized eggs make it to blast- I'm PRAYING 1 of the 4 left is that perfect one!!


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## Stinas

Gem - dh was out on clomid for a few months, but we knew it wouldn't do anything. We got little sperm from TESE.... Third IVF it worked but ended in MC. DH wanted to go directly to DS....I wanted to try again, I was not ready for DS at that point, I was before we got preg, but not when they told us there were no hb. I don't know why I all of a sudden was not ready, but it was just a feeling I had...I was determined to get preg again....thankfully we tried again and our twins should be here within a few weeks. 
I personally don't think too many homeopathic things can help our situation. I think we did everything we could surgery wise. I don't regret trying them, even though we knew it was rare for it to be fixed. 
I think you should do what your heart tells you to do. It does not hurt to try things, just don't put your expectations up too high. All azoo ladies can tell you it's a very long journey with lots of tears but thankfully, there usually is a light at end of tunnel....the route you take will be the right one for you! Just never give up


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## Stinas

Like the girls said.....it takes a lot of patience. 
What I found that helped me was in between losses and failures, I made sure to make me time. Dh and I also acted younger again and went out and partied like we were young again. Like we didn't have a worry in the world. It helped a lot.


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## gem10

Thank you all so much. It really helps to hear all of your stories. So much of what you all said makes sense. DH says he is willing to do surgery again this summer, although he is still in pain from the last one. But after that he says he needs some time off. This will be his third surgery in a year! If it doesnt work we may go to donor and then try with him at a later time. Patience is the key. Something that is so so hard when you want something so badly!! Thank you all again for your wordsof advice and encouragement. It has made me feel a lot better!!!


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## Stinas

Gem - its hard not to be discouraged after multiple surgeries and IVF failures. No matter what you think "am I doing the right thing?". Its a crazy roller coaster ride, but once its over, it was totally worth the ride!


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## Mikihob

Update and Question:

My blood work showed my Progesterone to be at 21. Doc said they like to see 10, so he's happy with the 21. 

BUT they don't do weekend IUI's. (It's Alaska no one does anything here...lol) If I get my OPK surge on Friday night, I have to wait until Monday morning for the IUI. Do you ladies think I will have any chance at all at getting that egg?? He says the egg can live in the tube for a couple of days, yes he's a pro and is very successful but my research says he should do it Saturday morning or even Sunday morning. 

Should I do it Friday night and hope the sperm lasts long enough. I was so excited about this and now I am a little worried. 

HELP ME!! I AM WORRYING - AGAIN!! :dohh:

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## deafgal01

I would try and find a clinic that does weeken service. That was one reason I picked the clinic I went with- I had confidence they would really watch and follow my body cues than waste few days of waiting when it could be done on the weekend. Not sure what u can do at this point though. Yikes. Hope other ladies offer good tips or success stories of waiting few extra days working for them.


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## rdleela

Miki, if you get your OPK surge on Friday, the egg doesn't release until 24-36 hours after the surge, so let's say maybe Saturday night or Sunday morning. Then the egg does survive about 24 hours, as well, so you could have a shot with an IUI done on Monday morning. BUT in my opinion, not the best shot, cause the sperm have a TON of miles to make after that IUI to get to the egg, but the egg in that case will have traveled fairly far down the fallopian tube already and the IUI puts the sperm a few miles ahead.

So it's a shot, but not the best shot, I do think the best shot is to do the IUI the day after your OPK surge, that gives the sperm the best chance to travel all those miles to the perfectly ripe egg.

I hope you get that surge on Saturday or Sunday instead!!


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## sharon99

Gem, I'm sorry I don't have any words of wisdom re: the herbs. It's awful that we have to make these kinds of decisions, isn't it? I hope you're able to find a solution that brings you peace of mind (and doesn't make you go broke). I'm thinking of you & following along with fingers crossed and lots of hope.

Miki, I have to agree with others- if you get a Friday positive, Monday might be too late. My clinic had me come in the day after my + OPK. The one that worked, I got my positive around 11 am or noon, and I had the IUI the next morning around 9 am. I usually only get one +, though- I'm not sure if that makes a difference. If you can't find another clinic and you DO surge over the weekend, maybe you'd just have to wait until the next month? (not fun, I know). The first month we were ready, I never got a positive OPK- I got two *almost* positives. I didn't want to gamble close to $1000 on "almost", so I just scrapped it and waited until the next month. It's hard when you're impatient to get things going... but in the end, I remember enjoying that month. Because I had been so stressed, the "forced" 3 or so weeks of not thinking about eggs, sperm, etc. were very relaxing! Here's hoping for a nice Sunday or Monday surge for you!


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## BettiS

Hi ladies.

After 19 months of me obsessively researching ICSI, DH had his testicular biopsy last Monday and no sperm was found. 

We are okay. Now at least we know that using a donor is in our not too distant future. 

But I now know nothing about IUI...can the ladies who have been through it, please explain the CYCLE to me from day 1 till your pregnancy test (not the actual IUI procedure...plenty of info about that all over).

DH is still a little sensitive about things but I expect we will try dIUI towards the end of 2014. Thank you for all your prayers!


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## bubumaci

Hi Betti! :howdy: Welcome to the thread - I am sorry, that you have to be here - I am sure you will find the advice and support you need here though. It is a fantastic network of ladies. I'm afraid I can't help you, as I have had no experience with IUI at all, but lots of women I am sure can help! :hugs2:


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## Mikihob

Thanks for all the advice ladies. I appreciate all the information and the experiences. I should start my period today or tomorrow and then Clomid. I am feeling hopeful about the DIUI and impatient at the same time. lol. 

:thumbup:


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## nicole_rc

We did 3 IUIs. Counts ranged from 20 mill - 84 post wash. Last Sat I went to do my 4th IUI when the nurse said all the sperm were dead and there were only some and not enough anyway. My hubs has not changed Anything!!! So my dr said it may have been a fluke or the cup so tonight we did a home sperm test and it showed up negative which means his count is somewhere under 20 million. I can't stop crying!! I thought we were so close to having our baby and now I'm freaking out if we even have any sperm!!! 

Has this happened to anyone else? Normal counts to none?


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## Miraclbaby

hey girls just wanted to check up on u. hope u have great week. I m getting nervous and excited...we are starting our first IVF around may 15th. 

babydust to all of u


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## bubumaci

nicole_rc said:


> We did 3 IUIs. Counts ranged from 20 mill - 84 post wash. Last Sat I went to do my 4th IUI when the nurse said all the sperm were dead and there were only some and not enough anyway. My hubs has not changed Anything!!! So my dr said it may have been a fluke or the cup so tonight we did a home sperm test and it showed up negative which means his count is somewhere under 20 million. I can't stop crying!! I thought we were so close to having our baby and now I'm freaking out if we even have any sperm!!!
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else? Normal counts to none?

Hi Nicole, sorry, I can't help you there. We have never had a normal count. Perhaps DH should see a urologist, to find out what is going on? I would doubt that it is a permanent situation, if you have otherwise always had healthy and abundant sperm!



Miraclbaby said:


> hey girls just wanted to check up on u. hope u have great week. I m getting nervous and excited...we are starting our first IVF around may 15th.
> 
> babydust to all of u

Hey Miraclbaby, congrats on getting started soon. Fingers tightly crossed for you and heaps of :dust::dust::dust:


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## sharon99

Betti, I'm sorry that the biopsy yielded no sperm. It sounds like you are both coming to peace with donor, however. Once we got over the "hump" of deciding to just do it and we got started, we both started feeling a lot better about it. 

I'm not sure if my experience is what you're looking for, because my dIUI cycles were unmedicated. So, it followed the pattern of "normal" couples! :) Waiting for a positive ovulation test, then the IUI the next day. My clinic only did 1 IUI; I've heard of others doing 2 per cycle. I think the *exact* protocol will vary greatly from person to person, and what kind of meds your doctor wants you to try. They will give you a full breakdown of what meds to take and when, I am sure. Sorry I can't be more helpful!

Sorry Nicole- DH's tests were always abnormal here, too.

Good luck, Miraclbaby!


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## Mikihob

My period never started. I was counting on that to start my next round of Clomid so that the DIUI would be timed perfectly. Well even though the serum progesterone said I ovulated, I am not sure now. 

I am devastated. We finally get moving in the right direction just to get shot back down to square one. 

My OB/GYN is doing all that he knows how to do. I think to move into Femara w/HCG or injectables w/HCG he will have to consult the RE in Seattle. I love my doctor so much. He has been my doctor since 2007 and found my PCOS after so many doctors couldn't figure it out. 

Alaska sucks for infertility. No fertility clinics, no sperm banks, no RE's, NOTHING!! So frustrated. I am having a hard time not crying every minute of every day. DH has been super moody since coming off his testosterone but its getting worse. Maybe it's just getting to me more because I feel so alone and defeated. 

Thank you all for being a shoulder to cry on and talking things out with me. It's nice to know I have people supporting me. DH doesn't like to talk about the infertility or treatment options or anything. He just listens to what I have to say and says OK and moves onto the next thing. I know he hears me and remembers what I say but he doesn't like to discuss it. 

If no period by Monday-officially calling my doctor and canceling the DIUI. Here's to hoping I start!


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## bubumaci

Oh Miki, so sorry to hear that! Fingers tightly crossed for you Sweetie!!! :hugs2:
It is great that you have such a good Dr. and that you trust and rely on him - so important!
We are always here for you - it is not easy for the men on this journey and often they don't get our need to talk ... :hugs2:


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## deafgal01

:hugs: miki hang in there. This is tough time for you. I hope af starts soon for u. I don't want mine and would give u mine if I could.


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## MBABY2014

Sorry to hear Miki- stay strong!

How is everyone else?
All the pregos still doing well??


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## Stinas

Lots of :hugs2: & :dust: to everyone!!


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## bubumaci

I second that!! :)
:hugs2: and :dust::dust::dust:

On Friday, I got to see Pünktchen again <3 Really incredible, looking at the foetus from various angles! From above, I could clearly see the two hemispheres of its brain (unbelievable) and then from the side, two little paddle hands and feet (which incidentally, were pedalling away. Kind of incredible seeing the movement and not feeling it!). Heart was beating away beautifully and I get to see how things are in two more weeks (when I decide about our long-haul trip a few days later)... :cloud9:
 



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## Rainbow123

Hello ladies.
Just to let you know that DH had his mTESE last Wednesday and sadly they didn't find any sperm. We both thought we were mentally prepared for this, but has been a difficult few days. I'm very lucky that DH is open to talking about things though, and can tell when I'm looking a bit low. He'll prod me into talking, I'll cry, talk about it some more together, then feel a little bit better. It's a strange grieving process as it's like I'm grieving for the babies which would have had his eyes, or his cheeky grin, but they were never meant to be, so strange. Slowly coming to terms with it anyway. 
So onto Plan B. We'll be talking to our FS next Friday to plan IUI with donor sperm. It looks like we might be able to try our first cycle mid May, but that's provided we start looking for DS in time.
Hope everyone's ok. 
Love to all XXXXX


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## bubumaci

Rainbow123 said:


> Hello ladies.
> Just to let you know that DH had his mTESE last Wednesday and sadly they didn't find any sperm. We both thought we were mentally prepared for this, but has been a difficult few days. I'm very lucky that DH is open to talking about things though, and can tell when I'm looking a bit low. He'll prod me into talking, I'll cry, talk about it some more together, then feel a little bit better. It's a strange grieving process as it's like I'm grieving for the babies which would have had his eyes, or his cheeky grin, but they were never meant to be, so strange. Slowly coming to terms with it anyway.
> So onto Plan B. We'll be talking to our FS next Friday to plan IUI with donor sperm. It looks like we might be able to try our first cycle mid May, but that's provided we start looking for DS in time.
> Hope everyone's ok.
> Love to all XXXXX

Rainbow, I am so sorry they couldn't find anything on Wednesday! :hugs2: totally get the grieving you are going through and am sending warmest cuddles!
I also think that you are both very strong to move onto the next stage, accepting the journey. You will be fantastic parents. And I think it is great, how your DH can read you and is so supportive! Sounds like you have a strong relationship :hugs2:
I hope you will be able to move forward quickly with the next step... Imagine, next month already :) 
xxxx :kiss:


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Oh Rainbow. :hugs:

I've given my notice to my full time job so Soon I will be reducing my hours to just two part time jobs. I don't know if that will help me get pregnant. I hadn't looked into home insemination yet but I will check out the forums for that here since you're right- they may have some wisdom or tips.


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## rdleela

Rainbow, I am SO, so sorry they didn't find any sperm...take all the time you need to grieve your husbands biological children...and take care of your hubby; it sounds like he is being super strong for you, and I'm so happy he is willing to go the donor sperm route with you, but take care of him none-the-less. I'm looking forward to following along in your journey with donor sperm! xoxo


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## Stinas

Rainbow - Im sorry they didn't find anything....but happy you guys are able to talk about the next steps! You will both love the baby no matter what! 

DG - Yay for slowing down work wise! Sometimes you need it! I know, I'm love working like a nut case. lol Just did my last day yesterday after I kept extending it....super upset to leave, but my body couldn't handle the crazy hours anymore.


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## sharon99

Miki, I'm sorry your cycle is being so frustrating. Has AF arrived yet? It seems unfair that once you're ready to start, your body decides not to be clear. That happened to me on my first donor cycle, too (no clear ovulation).

Rainbow, I am so sorry to hear about the mTESE. That must be quite a blow. I agree with everyone else- take the time you need to grieve. Your grief is not strange at all. Every once in a while, I get a little sad thinking that the little one won't inherit DH's brains... Sometimes it helps me to think that even IF it had been me + DH, the baby is still going to be its own little person. In some ways I feel like it's helped me not to have expectations as to what the baby will be like, but just to accept that it's my job to love them no matter what. I don't know if that makes sense, but it helps me when I feel sad about it sometimes.

Deafgal, I'm glad you'll be working fewer hours! And glad you're investigating home insemination- sounds way cheaper, especially since you're going with known donor.

Everything's still good here- my next appointment's on Tuesday. :)


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## Mikihob

Well AF finally arrived with a vengeance. I have been having cramps for about 10-12 days and yesterday they were super intense and painful. Soon after I woke up I noticed a little spotting. Wore a pad and still barely spotted all day. First thing this morning, nothing. Couple of hours later, full AF. It's one of the worst ones I have had in awhile. I don't know if that's good or bad. But I had two Clomid cycles in a row actually do what it's supposed to do, BIG improvement. I am refilling the Clomid prescription and start taking it on April 9. I should ovulate around April 20-22. I guess I am not canceling the DIUI afterall. I am kinda over the emotional roller coaster though. Clomid makes me mad (crazy)!! :wacko:

Rainbow I am so terribly sorry they didn't find any sperm. It's great that you two are being open and talking about it. It's great for each one of you to be able to talk it out and know that someone is understanding your feelings and supporting you. It's a HUGE stress reliever. A DIUI in May?! That is great! I understand the grief in not being able to have DH bio babies. My DH had two bio daughters with his ex and part of me is so sad that she was able to have his bio kids and I can't. He has explained that I am silly for feeling that way, but it's still kinda there. We chose the first donor we researched. I thought it would take months. It took hours. I know we were really lucky to find someone who has such similar background as DH. I hope you can find the perfect donor right away and move forward. 

Thanks for all the advice ladies. :hugs:


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## MBABY2014

Glad AF finally came!

We should be on similar timelines- thinking/hoping my FET will be around the 23rd, so we should be in the 2ww together!!

Rainbow- glad you have a plan, I think a big part of infertility is having the next steps laid out for us- having something to yearn for...;)


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## bubumaci

Yay for :witch: !! I am glad she turned up and you can stay on schedule (sorry about her being so mean though)!!
So when exactly do I have to be finger crossing?

Lots and lots of :dust::dust: for all FETs, DIUIs and any other procedures coming up :) <3


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## Mikihob

bubumaci said:


> Yay for :witch: !! I am glad she turned up and you can stay on schedule (sorry about her being so mean though)!!
> So when exactly do I have to be finger crossing?
> 
> Lots and lots of :dust::dust: for all FETs, DIUIs and any other procedures coming up :) <3

I am scheduled to ovulate between April 18-April 23. Usually I ovulate the 8-9 day after my last pill so my DIUI will be April 23 or April 24. So excited! Nervous, but excited! As an after thought it's kinda good that AF showed up late because now I don't have to worry about ovulating on Friday and then waiting until Monday for the DIUI. 

:dust: to us all!!


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## bubumaci

... Maybe a blessing in disguise after all? :) <3


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## Rainbow123

How exciting Mikihob! Less than two weeks!

Thank you for your lovely messages ladies, they really mean a lot. :hugs:

We had our FS meeting yesterday, and she confirmed we're pretty much ready to go when we want to! So next week we will be looking for sperm, yikes! I am now at peace with the whole idea of DIUI and strangely it doesn't feel weird to me anymore. DH is feeling a bit funny about it, but I think that's to be expected. 
It felt like such a positive meeting for once. The FS was super happy with all my tests results, weight, age and said a couple of time how we should get pregnant really quickly. I just feel so positive at the moment, it's such a breath of fresh air to not be feeling sad! 
I saw a couple of mothers and babies straight after the appointment yesterday, and for the first time since we found out I haven't wanted to turn on my heel and run away crying. :-D 

Love and fairy dust to all XXXXXXX :dust:


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## rdleela

Best of luck, Mikihob!

Rainbow, it's so awesome to hear that your story is taking a positive turn! It must be so exciting to be able to move on and get you pregnant soon! :happydance:


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## Stinas

Rainbow - super happy you are ready for this new start! Im sure he will feel a bit odd at first looking at those pics and sorting through all that info, but once your preg, it will all go away and the love/excitement will set in. 

I have to tell you all....we all have the same issue, but all our stories are pretty much different and we all take different routes to get pregnant.......but once you do finally get pregnant, no matter which path you took, its the most amazing feeling in the world. All that crying, all those docs telling you you can't, all the needles, all the pain, it just goes away in a matter of seconds. Years ago I read someone explaining the same thing, and I thought to myself, yeah ok....she says that now because she's preg.....but sitting here waiting for my twinkies to arrive, I think back at what she said and she was right. There is a light at the end of the azoo tunnel, and the other side is amazing. Everyone will get there, some sooner than others, but you will get there. The key is to never give up and never let anyone tell you to let go of your dream of being a mother. Its no ones choice to take that away from you! 
I hope no one takes offense to this, but I struggled for years and was told to go directly to donor, and that I would never be able to have DH's biological child, also told to just give up, so I have been in the same spot as all of you. I found it comforting when I read positive stories. I hope you can look at all the BFP's and know it will happen to you too!


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## bubumaci

Beautifully said, Stinas! :hugs2:


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## gem10

Stinas, thank you for your kind words. Every other day I have to convince myself to keep trying, and then some days I think we should consider donor so we can finally start our family. But your story encourages me to keep trying.

We had a follow up with DH urologist this week. After being on chlomid since Sept. his testosterone is 1,000 and his FSH went from 18 to 28. Not sure I quite understand it all. But the dr said the chlomid is doing what it is supposed to. There was stil zero sperm in his SA. They are putting him on another drug to balance his estrogen as that was a little high. Ultimately he said he is responding well and the meds are giving the testes a favorable environment for the sperm. We are hoping to try again in July. This time I havent been as obsessive and have been eating and drinking what I want. We have both agreed this will be our last try for a long time. My DH needs a break from surgeries. I give him credit for being willing to do the surgery three times in a year. 

As for me, I am on break from work and looking forward to a week for me. I plan on seeing all of my friends who are pregnant and or have had babies who I havent seen since our BFN in January. I think I am finally ready!

Wishing everyone lots of luck in whatever stage you are of TTC. I will continue to watch from the sidelines!


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## Stinas

Gem - I wish you the best of luck! You are going in the right direction! Its good that the clomid is working!!! 
Seeing your friends might be a good idea! You have to be ready to see them....once you are, it actually helps...as weird as that sounds!


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## gem10

Thanks Stinas!! I was reading your journal earlier. Your DH did chlomid, right? Do you think it helped?


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## MoBaby

sorry about the results gem. my dh did clomid and hcg...no effect :( but i think we are going to see a different urologist soon for different insight since we do want to try again in a year or so. want to see if dh has a blockage since last urologist didnt do anything except bloodwork and wanted $$. dh fsh is marginal at 11 and he matches the blockage criteria (hernia surgery and torsion surgery) so we want to see if he can try a ve.


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## bubumaci

That's great that the clomid is working Gem!! Incidentally, the one and only time we got a good sample from my DH (which they froze two years ago), was after he took Tamoxifen for six weeks (an oestrogen inhibitor) ... (Personally, I don't understand the FSH values - everything they measured for DH was good, so I didn't really pay attention to what good values are).
Fingers crossed that the medication does its work for the July try!! :hugs2:
BTW - I think it is good that you are relaxing and "not obsessing" - having a PME and being more relaxed is definitely healthier and it does help you! :) :kiss:

:wohoo: @ Mo wanting to try again :) :)


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## Stinas

Gem - DH did do clomid, but it had no effect. I had more info on my LTTTC journal....I need to do a copy paste onto my preg journal. 
Yeah, he took it for a about 3 months....doc knew it was a small chance of it working, but it didn't hurt to try. He has a blockage somewhere, which is causing the azoo....on top of it he also thinks its his varicocele. We did one surgery after the clomid, he had a cyst which doc thought could be the blockage, but it was not. So thats when we decided to do our third cycle, which was a success, but ended in MC. Then we did this FET, which is giving us our twins. I wanted to do this FET, DH wanted to go to donor...like always, I got my way :wink wink: If it didn't work, we were going to go to donor, I didn't want him to go through another surgery that was not a 100% chance of a "fix". 
Oh and DH's bloods all came back normal, which also does lead to blockage. He has never had surgeries as a child or any sickness....nothing that could have caused azoo. 

This is a long process. I feel like the only way it can go quicker is with a great urologist and fertility specialist. Of course everything costs money too, but luckily, most of the urologists fees were greatly covered by insurance. 
If you don't like your doctor, leave. Thats the best advice I can give after years in this thread. Some docs do not want to be bothered or just don't give a crap in researching whats the problem. 


Mo - Yay for wanting to try again! :happy dance:

We have decided to use our one last :cold: when the twinkies are around 3, if it does not work we are done. We have sperm frozen from his TESE in 2012, but I don't know how good the sperm is or if its even good enough to use. I don't want him to go through another TESE or any surgery. We will have our miracle babies and the fact that there are two of them, makes it even easier to stop if the FET does not work.


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## babadespls

Hi Ladies, 

Since my DH got his results in January he has been on all sorts of vitamins and maca etc... and we are due to do another set of tests (SA and hormone levels) as well as a biopsy. I have also subsequently made an appointment at a fertility clinic...this will all happen in May... but I just feel like I cant go on with this, I wake up every morning thinking why is morning here already, or how I wish I never woke up, I went to my GP and he has suggested me going on an anti-depressant (I have a box of Prozac in my draw) Just wanted to get an opinion on this? 

Also me not been able to control my emotions and been tearful all the time is not good for my husband, but I really cant help it, and he knows me so well, that even when I try act strong he sees through me. 

I am willing to try anything but I'm wary of anti-depressants, could it be bad for my body and make TTC even harder? I just don't know but I cant carry on as I am.

Have any of you gone on anti-depressants and did it help at all?


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## arzoo

Coming to terms with azoo is not easy. It's almost a year since we got to know about our diagnosis. I used to cry every morning and night and every time I saw a pregnant lady. The frequency has decreased. What am trying to say is just hold on you will find strength to deal with things just give yourself time. I personally would not take Anti depressants because of the side effects and potential addiction to them.


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## bubumaci

Babe - I agree with Arzoo, if you can, try to stay away from the anti-depressants ... unless you really can't cope at all.
Getting this diagnosis has been one of the hardest things I have ever been confronted with! When you look forward to parenthood one day (and actually fear not being able to have children) and suddenly ... it happens to you (not just to other people), it is devastating! The world of infertility opens up, just as you feel your dreams shattering into shards around you! .. and we started down this road on this fight three years ago! ...

The few times I lost it, DH was feeling even worse, because he felt it was his "fault" that I was losing it ... which of course made me throttle down on my emotions, because I didn't want him feeling so bad (the diagnosis is enough!) ...

As hard as it is, try to look at it as a blessing that we are living in the time we are living in. A few decades ago and we would have to remain childless, because technology wouldn't be able to a) diagnose the issues we are having and b) provide potential solutions or at least other approaches.
We can go to fertility clinics, we can try this and that and over and over ...

Sweetie, May is just around the corner :hugs2: You can get there, you and DH can get there together.
There are so many ladies on this thread who have had to face Azoo - and who have come out on the other side victorious. Please try not to lose hope - there are so many success stories to draw strength and hope and energy from ... and we are all here for you! :hugs:


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## babadespls

Thanks for your comments, I think I will follow my gut and your opinions and throw those anti-depressants away, I don't want anything else in my way of having a baby. 

It does make me feel better that time may help, I guess this waiting game is hard, just as my husbands Urologist said is that we have to learn to have patience.

I am also going to distance myself from certain things that trigger my episodes of sadness that I can control, I deactivated all social media such as facebook and I guess I just have to grin and bare it as I have my SIL's baby shower coming up. Not looking forward to it - I'm running out of excuses as I have been absent at a few others already.

I come onto this thread often and quietly read all the posts because it is actually great to see the success stories and know about the different stages that all the ladies are in, when I read what all you ladies have been through it just blows my mind that you kept going and I take my hat off to you! I just hate this stage that I am in now which is living in limbo, I just want answers. I am looking forward to the appointment at the Fertility Clinic to get a professional opinion. 

Thank you again.


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## sharon99

Baba, I am so sorry you're feeling so depressed. I think we've all been there, to varying degrees. One thing that helped me was going to see a therapist who specializes in infertility- is that a possibility for you? Maybe your clinic can refer you to an infertility support group, as these are often free. Another thing that helped me (I've mentioned this a few times!) is a podcast called Creating A Family- also free. They have a few episodes about dealing with the grief of infertility. One thing the "experts" on that show seemed to agree on is taking time to be selfish, and skipping the baby showers if you need to! I can see how skipping your SIL's could be difficult... but perhaps you could make it up to her with a special lunch, or special gift later, or? Best of luck to you as you go through this- the waiting is so, so hard.

Good luck, Gem! Thinking of you.


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## MrsG30

Hi Ladies,

just popping in too see how you all and remind you although i dont post much im still lurking. 
Im sorry to see so many newbees but the lovely ladies on here can all help.
I haven't been posting as didn't really have anything to report or anything i thought could help.

For those of you that don't know me, i'm Danielle, i'm 32 and my hubby has azoo, we've never had a test with any spermies in, Dr is putting it down to an adult case of mumps.
After a years worth of testing and decision making we are now having ICSI with donor sperm, i will post a bit more as we go but i thought id come and let you know.

If anyone of you want ay advice/help, have any questions as you go through this horrific journey then please ask and i will help as much a i can.Im more than happy to share y journey so far.

I couldn't have got this far without you.

Lots of Love xxx


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## Stinas

BABA - Im sorry you are feeling this way, but your still new in all of this, so its easy to feel the way you are feeling. I agree with the other lades, pills won't make you feel better. I feel like a ton of docs are pushing this crap on people instead of them feeling out their real feelings, talking about their problems/issues etc. Azoo is a very hard thing to go through....you have to learn how to be tough for you DH...because he will blame all of this on himself, we mainly freak out because all our plans and dreams are disrupted. May is right around the corner, I am hoping for an easy fix for you! If not, hey, life is not over, you have a whole thread FULL of AMAZING ladies with tons of helpful information to help you through this sucky journey. 
For most its a super long journey, so put on your big girl panties.....you can do this! No matter what, at the end of the tunnel there is something amazing and you will realize all the tears were worth it!


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## deafgal01

Baba-The ladies have all imparted some wise words here. I agree, the pills won't help. You will have good days and bad days. More bad days than good for a while but it does eventually get easier to look at straight in the eyes.

I have been dealing with azoospermia issue since new year's 2012... Hard to believe I have been wanting a baby for 3 years and still not close to that yet but I will eventually get there one way or another. You will too. If you do have access to good counselor, I recommend having that as an option, talking it out and stuff helps. I need to see mine sooner or later, been almost a year since I seen mine but she put things in perspective for me, like what I can realistically expect from the IUIs and the risks possible for miscarriages for IUI is about the same as a normal pregnancy conceived naturally. It does help to have someone who understands what you are going thru. Again you are not alone in this, we all have same diagnosis by different solutions how we get to where we are going based on different reasons for the diagnosis.


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## Rainbow123

Hi Baba!
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I'm a year ahead of you, as we found out in January 2013 about my DH's azoospermia. We also had to wait until May before we could see our FS for the first time, it was a hellish wait and I really feel for you as I know just how awful I felt in the limbo you are going through. But it's right around the corner now and then hopefully you can get some wheels in motion! 
Time is the most dreadful thing about this affliction, but you will find you get stronger as the days go on. How you are feeling is perfectly normal for this situation, as I think every last one of us on this thread has felt how you are describing. Thinking back to this time last year, my best advice would be to make time for you and DH. Make weekly fun times so that you can have something to look forward to during the week and just have a good old laugh together. Me and DH decided to create a vegetable garden and put HOURS of back breaking work into it. It was really therapeutic to be outside and very rewarding. I still use that as my personal therapy (going out there again after I finish writing this, as it happens!). We also had lots of Mexican nights (we LOVE chilli), where we feasted on tasty things and drank lots of tequila. Above all, we just tried our best, to at least one night a week, forget about how shitty this situation is and have a good old laugh. It really does do wonders and keeps your relationship strong. And please keep coming on here and talking to us about how you are feeling. When you have no one else to talk to, you always have US!
Sending LOTS of love and hugs to you. :hugs:
XXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## MBABY2014

Hi everyone

So glad to hear from everyone and to hear the different directions options that there are out there for us Azoo ladies!!!

As for me- I've just been watching the time go by UNTILL I got my LH surge today which was a confirmed with my blood work. So I am tentatively schedule for my FET on Monday the 21st!! Yaya so excited! The Eskimos just need to thaw and I should be ready to go!!

Putting in 2 this time...fingers crossed! Beta will be May 1!


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## Louiselondon3

Hi! I would be really interested in speaking to you as we are in quite a similar situation!

I saw in your profile that your DH used tamoxifen? I was wondering if that improved his count as it didn't work in our case. My DH had an undescended testicle which was corrected age 6 and we have occasional motile sperm in our samples. We have had 1 failed ICSI and are on our 2nd now. What was your fertilization rate like? Ours was low (about 25%) so worried this might be something to do with the sperm! It's nice to see someone in a similar situation who went on to have a succeeding pregnancy though! sorry for all the Qs!


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## Stinas

MBABY - Yay!!! Good luck!!!! 

Louiselondon3 - Sorry to find you here, but all the info you need is here! I believe BUBU's DH was on that.....im sure she will chime in soon!


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## MBABY2014

Stinas- your SOooo close! How are you feeling?


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## Stinas

MBABY - Doing good actually. Thanks for asking! C-seciton is next friday April 25. Im ready for them to come out....Past week or two have been very uncomfortable....mostly due to swelling...feet are unrecognizable! lol Overall, I have done pretty good considering what I have been reading in the twin forum. I worked until 36w....could have still been working if my feet didn't swell as fast. 
I was talking to a few others on here and we were saying how crazy it is......I have been waiting for years to get pregnant, I finally do, and it FLEW by soooooo fast! I did enjoy it, but where in the world did the time go! Its just mind boggling.


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## babadespls

Thanks so much for your kind words ladies, it really does make me feel better! You are all awesome, That's great that your babies are on their way Stinas and Holding thumbs for you MBABY!


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## NikkiR143

Louiselondon3 said:


> Hi! I would be really interested in speaking to you as we are in quite a similar situation!
> 
> I saw in your profile that your DH used tamoxifen? I was wondering if that improved his count as it didn't work in our case. My DH had an undescended testicle which was corrected age 6 and we have occasional motile sperm in our samples. We have had 1 failed ICSI and are on our 2nd now. What was your fertilization rate like? Ours was low (about 25%) so worried this might be something to do with the sperm! It's nice to see someone in a similar situation who went on to have a succeeding pregnancy though! sorry for all the Qs!

Hi Louise,

Similar situation here! My DH had one undescended testicle as a child that wasn't corrected till he was older. His sample only had 5 sperm total- 3 twitching sperm, and 2 non-motile. He has made some lifestyle changes about 3 months ago so he'll be going in for another sample next month. We'll see if the count improved at all. Good luck with your 2nd round of IVF w/ ICSI! We may move forward with our first round in September.

- Nicole


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Louise,

Yes, Tamoxifen was the first thing the urologist wanted to try with DH, because he said it is non-obstructive, but cannot find any reason for it ... All other spermiogrammes showed either 0 or at most 250k sperm, with little to no motility and very poor morphology (all weird). Instead of doing TESE right away, two years ago he took Tamoxifen for 6 weeks. At the spermiogramme after that, they found 13 MIO sperm, with 8% motility... that was the sample they froze 6 straws of. For all our ICSI tries, they used fresh (found enough to fertilise) and our fertilisation rates were always very good - but no pregnancy! I am just going to list the egg retrievals and those fertilisation rates (since we did have a bunch of cryo-tries as well):

1st : 14 eggs retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilised
2nd: 11 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 7 fertilised

Before this next try, Doctor suggested that DH take Tamoxifen again, so that if we have good results, we could try IMSI. Unfortunately, the drugs seemed to have no impact and his samples was as poor as always...

3rd: 23 eggs retrieved, 18 mature, 15 fertilised (did get 2 6th day blastocysts - everything else barely developed to at most Morula / many cells on 5th day).
4th: 12 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 5 fertilised - 2 5th day blasts
5th: 13 eggs retrieved, 11 mature, 9 fertilised - 2 5th day blasts

All these always with fresh tries ... only the 3rd, 4th and 5th ICSIs had blasts - the ones before didn't. That was also the stage where we started having the fertilised eggs monitored in an embryoscope (where the environment is apparently even better for them).

Finally - we tried TESE ... and they found nothing that could be used. Since it was on the day of my egg retrieval, they used three straws of the frozen sperm, taken 2 years ago, where we had such great results : 
6th: 15 eggs retrieved, 14 mature, 9 fertilised - 1 5th day hatching blastocyst + 1 morula ... and we got our :bfp:!

I cannot say much about the Tamoxifen - one time, it worked wonders and I think that is why we are now expecting our miracle. The other time, it had no impact whatsoever.
We have no explanation for the lack of sperm and its quality, I don't know if it was just some freak try two years ago, that has given us our little miracle... but I think it is worth trying it out! <3


----------



## SunUp

Hello ladies! I haven't been on in a while, but I do like to pop in every so often and check in! Our little DIVF miracle is napping right now, and we are SO blessed. I am so thankful for the ladies on this thread that kept me positive and gave me hope during the hardest parts of LTTC. I try to pop in to continue that hope for others when I can. I will hopefully be starting another cycle by the end of this year (FET) but for now just wanted to send you all hugs and prayers - you are not alone in this diagnosis - keep the faith, blessings can happen, and I hope they do for all of you!


----------



## MBABY2014

:thumbup:Well ladies- I'm officially PUPO again!!

We transferred 2 of our little Eskimos and hoping they stick!

I'm
So happy I went with my natural cycle and I ended up having a 11.6 lining!!

The only hormones I am on are vaginal progesterone inserts- just did my 1st... Any tips would be appreciated!

Now onto the 2ww!!!


----------



## MoBaby

Mbaby natural fet is so much better! My lining was the best ever also on a natural fet. The progesterone is nasty so wear a pad even if you don't think you'll need it because it leaks. Truly nasty stuff! Fx for you!


----------



## bubumaci

Mbaby! :wohoo: fingers and toes will be crossed for you!! All sounds great so far :dance: I agree with Mo, have been wearing (and still am) a panty liner.... am really happy that you feel happy! xxx


----------



## Rainbow123

Eeek how exciting MBABY! Everything crossed for you  XXXXX


----------



## Stinas

Mbaby soooo excited for you!!! Yay!! Good luck!


----------



## MBABY2014

Thanks everyoneeeeeee!!!
Kisses to all my AZZO ladies!!!


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## Mikihob

MBABY2014 congrats! I am super excited! I knew your transfer was soon and was thinking about you. Will have my fingers crossed and praying you get your miracle baby(babies)! Do you have plans for your TWW?

I go in tomorrow or Thursday for my DIUI (depending on if I get my positive OPK tonight or tomorrow night) we will be in the TWW together! Since DH's azoospermia diagnosis I haven't had an actual TWW because I always knew I wasn't going to be pregnant. It will be strange to actually be waiting to test. 

:dust:


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## bubumaci

Oooohhh, good luck Miki! All fingers crossed and sending you both heaps of :dust::dust::dust:


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## MBABY2014

MIK- so excited we can be in the 2ww together!

I was so scared to test on my fresh- this time I'm not- I think I will test Tues or wed.. Tuesday will be 8DPT...I think that's safe to test..??

What about you???

My beta is May 1....


----------



## Mikihob

MBABY2014 said:


> MIK- so excited we can be in the 2ww together!
> 
> I was so scared to test on my fresh- this time I'm not- I think I will test Tues or wed.. Tuesday will be 8DPT...I think that's safe to test..??
> 
> What about you???
> 
> My beta is May 1....

I think I will test May 9...if I last that long. lol. I think it's possible to get a BFP on 8DPT. I wouldn't see why not, unless you implanted a little later. 

We leave for vacation on May 1 maybe I will just test early. May 2 is 8dpo for me and it's before we get to DH's parents house. I don't want them finding the test after we leave and expect us to be preggo. :dohh:


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## Stinas

Mikihob - oooo yay good luck!


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## sharon99

Mbaby! Miki! So excited for both of you!!! I will keep my fingers tightly crossed for a successful TWW for you both! Yay!

I had my 14.5 week appointment today and everything still looks great. I can't believe I'm in my 2nd trimester! It still seems slightly unreal, but feeling more confident (and very, very happy!).


----------



## Rainbow123

How exciting Mikihob! Good luck, everything crossed for you! XXX


----------



## Mikihob

Ladies, I have a TMI question. 

If I have EWCM does that mean I am ovulating today and should have the IUI or does it mean I will ovulate tomorrow and stick with the schedule? I got a negative OPK yesterday at 2:30pm. I am taking another one today at 2:30pm again to check and then one tonight at like 6pm just to triple check. :winkwink:

I have never really had it before. Usually it's just kinda watery when I go to the bathroom, but this time it was EWCM. I was shocked. Advice? 

Thanks lovelies!


----------



## snd80

:dust: to MBaby and Miki!!!!! We need some more azoo baby miracles!!! Hope the tww is kind to you both!!! 

Stinas! My jedi master!!! So excited for Friday!!!! :happydance:

Hope everyone else is doing well!!! :hugs:


----------



## MBABY2014

Stick with the schedule!!! EWCM is a great sign!! The best indication is the LH surge of ovulation within 12-36 hours!


----------



## sharon99

I agree, stick to the schedule!! My EWCM would come, and often go, before I got a positive OPK. Yay EWCM!


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## Mikihob

My IUI is in 45 minutes! Very excited! Kinda nervous, but excited! :baby:


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## MBABY2014

Good luck Mik!


----------



## rdleela

Best of luck Miki and Mbaby! Hoping real hard for you ladies!!


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## Rainbow123

How did it go Mikihob? XXX


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## Mikihob

Sorry for the delayed reply, I rested yesterday other than a slight emergency with my step-daughter. 

The IUI went well. It felt like a pap smear at first but then my uterus cramped as he put the catheter in. I cramped all day yesterday. The IUI was at 9am and at 9pm when I went to bed it still hurt. I also had a massive headache, super weird. But I feel loads better, just slight cramping. My doc put some of the donor sample on a slide to check them out. The nurse said, "I have the slide." DH and I are like, "What is that for?" :rofl: We rested for ten minutes after and then she let DH and I look at the slide, it was crazy! Almost every spermy was swimming. I just stared into the microscope mesmerized. It's crazy actually seeing them. 

Now to wait..............:dohh: Maybe I will color. lol. Our vacation starts on May 1 so I have packing and such to do. I will try to keep busy. 

MBABY how is your TWW so far? Keeping busy? 

To end my long post, do you know how I can get the babynbump app on my phone?


----------



## MBABY2014

Glad to hear that everything went well!!

Do you have an iPhone- I just searched the 'baby and bump' app and it came up

My tww is fine- uneventful!

Not sure what to think of that- some very minor cramping on/off- not really interested in eating as well.. Maybe I'm just excited!


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## tulip11

Hi

Anyone hubby used wellman conception? I read it's formula it has all the herbs which are really good for spermatogenesis so I am looking forward for any positive review . Thanks in advance and all the best to all of you and congratulations to the successful future mums ^_^


----------



## sharon99

Yay, Miki!! I'm so glad it went well! That's cool they let you look at the spermies under the microscope- they never let us do that. Good luck with the wait!!


----------



## MoBaby

tulip11 said:


> Hi
> 
> Anyone hubby used wellman conception? I read it's formula it has all the herbs which are really good for spermatogenesis so I am looking forward for any positive review . Thanks in advance and all the best to all of you and congratulations to the successful future mums ^_^

my dh did but it wont inc count; only improve what is there. he took it several months with the same results in his sa but that cycle we did end up with 6 blasts vs 2 the other cycles.


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## Mikihob

MBABY2014 said:


> Glad to hear that everything went well!!
> 
> Do you have an iPhone- I just searched the 'baby and bump' app and it came up
> 
> My tww is fine- uneventful!
> 
> Not sure what to think of that- some very minor cramping on/off- not really interested in eating as well.. Maybe I'm just excited!

I do have an iPhone but still can't find the app. I searched for 'baby and bump' and it brings up 43 options but I can't find the app. Maybe it's further down. 

I will keep trying. Thanks for the information. 

So far I have cramping on and off too. Other than that, I just have the standard Clomid symptoms. I hope that's it's a good sign for both of us. :hugs:


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## deafgal01

I could never find the app either and I have an iphone too.


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## tulip11

Attention please I am so worried 

Today is cd 23 and my cycles are mostly 28 days and sometimes 30 days but this time what is happening to me is quite strange. Since day 21 I am having low back pain, uterus cramps like pinching sometimes, abdominal pain, on and off pain in thighs , legs, shoulder and mostly in hips. I feel very tired when I walk up on stairs. I am having pinching pain sensation in chest. And 2 days before I was passing by resturant there the aromas smell were so strange when I asked my husband he said no smell is fine what happened to you . I am having menstrual like cramps seems to be af is on her way but it's still far away and I don't have any cramps before periods so I don't know what's going on. Yesterday when I was pressing clothes so after sometime I couldn't stand any more . What's wrong with me ?


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## rdleela

Tulip, it could be that AF is just arriving early, or it could be pregnancy, but it's probably a tiny bit early to test...I forget, did you do any treatments this cycle?
If there are any of those symptoms that are extreme, don't hesitate to call your doctor or go in!


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## tulip11

rdleela said:


> Tulip, it could be that AF is just arriving early, or it could be pregnancy, but it's probably a tiny bit early to test...I forget, did you do any treatments this cycle?
> If there are any of those symptoms that are extreme, don't hesitate to call your doctor or go in!

We are still in the process of tests will be having our next appointment in may to discuss fertility treatment. But I am sure it can't be pregnancy as DH has azoospermia and about af it'salways on time or 2 days late but never bbefore its too early . Thanks for reply :)


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## NikkiR143

My periods have been so weird lately. Ever since I went off birth control last July, I've had long cycles (usually about 40 to 42 days)...but I haven't had a period in 2 months :-( 

I was hopeful at first- that by some miracle I was pregnant. But due to hubby's cryptozoospermia I know that isn't possible. I took two pregnancy tests just to confirm- both negative. But still no period. I did a blood test on the 3rd day of my period 2 months ago. Fertility specialist ordered it and said my hormones/results all came back normal. But now I'm thinking maybe I have a problem too. Anyone else have weird periods? 2 months and no period is really worrying me. No signs it's coming anytime soon either. Ugh..


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## MBABY2014

Think im going to POAS tomorrow... Scaredddd


Mik- what's up with you? Feeling anything?


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## MBABY2014

How do
I add a picture??

Think I got 3 faint lines ( on 3 tests).... 8DP5DT


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## tulip11

MBABY2014 said:


> How do
> I add a picture??
> 
> Think I got 3 faint lines ( on 3 tests).... 8DP5DT

Congratulations. Click on go advance then click on attachment sign near smiley face then choose file


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## bubumaci

Oooohhhhh, Mbaby.... Can't wait to see piccie! :dance:


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## Mikihob

Hi MBABY. 

I have been crampy. Yesterday the cramps were pretty bad actually. I have the normal Clomid symptoms, but my boobs are more sore, my hot flashes are way worse than usual and (TMI) I have very watery discharge. I went to the restroom today and I thought I peed myself. lol. That is definitely different. 

Other than that I don't really feel different. Some days I am so sure that I am pregnant and others I am so sure that I am not. TWW sucks! :dohh:

POAS and a BFP today!! I can't wait to see pics! I have been praying hard for your success this cycle. I am so excited!! :hugs:


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## Mikihob

nicolew412 said:


> My periods have been so weird lately. Ever since I went off birth control last July, I've had long cycles (usually about 40 to 42 days)...but I haven't had a period in 2 months :-(
> 
> I was hopeful at first- that by some miracle I was pregnant. But due to hubby's cryptozoospermia I know that isn't possible. I took two pregnancy tests just to confirm- both negative. But still no period. I did a blood test on the 3rd day of my period 2 months ago. Fertility specialist ordered it and said my hormones/results all came back normal. But now I'm thinking maybe I have a problem too. Anyone else have weird periods? 2 months and no period is really worrying me. No signs it's coming anytime soon either. Ugh..

When I am off birth control my periods are very erratic and I have odd symptoms. Maybe you should talk to an OB/Gyn or someone about annovulation. Have you been checked for that? I have PCOS and only ovulate naturally like twice a year if I am lucky. I am sorry your period is being so weird. It makes this whole process harder. I wish I had better advice for you.


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## MBABY2014

Hope this works!!

What does everyone think??
 



Attached Files:







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## Mikihob

MBABY I definitely see the second line on the first test and when I click the pic it opens bigger and I see the second line on the other two. Congratulations! I am super happy and excited for you! Have you called the doc yet?


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## tulip11

MBABY2014 said:


> Hope this works!!
> 
> What does everyone think??

Definitely a line is there on all tests. Congratulations and have H&H 9 months :happydance:


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## MBABY2014

I'm very excited! I need to call the doctor but my beta isn't till Thursday- I hope they will let me come in tomorrow instead??

I hope the lines get darker!!
Mikob- do you think you will test?


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## Mikihob

Hopefully they will let you go in tomorrow, I mean it's only 1 day early. The lines should get darker and quickly. You put to embabies in right?

I am not sure when I am going to test. I wanted to wait until my period is due BUT I am so curious at the same time. May 5 is my wedding anniversary and I would love to have a BFP! On May 2 we head to DH's parents house for the week, maybe I will test that morning. :shrug:


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## rdleela

Woo hoo Mbaby!!!! Those are some good lines! So very happy for you!


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## bubumaci

Mbaby, I see the lines on all three. Perfect. Sooo excited for you, now I can't wait for your beta! 

:happydance:

Miki, fingers and toes crossed for you too Honey!! :kiss:


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## MBABY2014

Thanks everyone!

I CAN NOT believe this might actually be happening!! I don't want to get to excited!!

For ladies who love to POAS- should the be darker tonight or should I wait till AM?


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## MBABY2014

When is your P due?


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## Mikihob

My P is due between May 8-12 depending on whether I have a 30 day or 35 day cycle.


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## cosita

Hi everyone!!

It has been a long time since I have been here but every once in a while I have visited to see how you are all getting along. I joined way back about 3 years ago when my dh was diagnosed as being azoospermic. Since then as I'm sure you can all identify with, life has been a rollercoaster. First we spent a year or so doing tests on my dh and finally a TESE. To cut a long story short, *all his tests came back within normal ranges* (FSH, citric acid, genetic tests etc). The TESE was successful as in that sperm was found but they are immature and it couldn't be determined if they were alive or not. Or this is what we were told at the time. 
We were always advised to go down the ICSI route but without knowing why my husband has this problem we really didn't want to and decided against it, not wanting to carry on this unknown problem through our family. We got a second opinion about a year ago and it was much the same. What he said to us about male fertility was 'With male fertility all we can see is the forest, we don't know what trees are in there, and we certainly can't see the leaves on the trees, it's up to you whether you want to venture into that forest or not'. 
After that we decided to go with donor sperm. We have had 2 diui with 2 bfns :nope:


Jumping on to why I am writing all of this. This weekend we were in Barcelona and decided to try a doctor there. We literally picked a clinic from nowhere as they had first appt free. It was Fertilab. Anyway...we finally got a possible diagnosis with treatment! It may not be it, and we don't want to get our hopes up but the doctor seemed pretty sure. He noticed that while my dh FSH levels were within normal range, there was a lot of variation in his levels from one analisis to another and this was unusual. He said putting all the symptoms together there is a very good chance that my husband has chronic prostatitis. This causes obstructive azoospermia but untreated could later turn into non-obstructive (hence the *variation in FSH levels*). This is caused by an infection in the prostate which has never been cured. 2 years ago dh was given an antibiotic to rule out infection but we were never told where or why. So he is now on a 20-day shock treatment including antibiotics and anti-inflammatory pills. He has to eat lots of pumpkin seeds and ejaculate as much as possible, the more excited he is the better! This will help get rid of the bacteria. Pufff...what a post. Please ask me any questions you might have. I have gone on for so long as I feel this could be interesting to some of you as its something we had NEVER come across throughout these 3 years. 
Sending positive energy to all!!


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## Rainbow123

CONGRATULATIONS MBABY! That is fantastic news! I'm so excited for you! :-D 

XXX


----------



## rdleela

Very interesting, Cosita, please keep us updated with the results of this 20 day shock treatment! Best of luck!


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## sharon99

YAY MBABY!!!! I definitely see lines on all three tests!! So thrilled for you!


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## gem10

Congratulations MBaby!

Mik my fingers are crossed for you!


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## Olive333

Mbaby - Congrats!

Cosita - We have also done 2 Diui's that ended up BFN. It was devastating and we are waiting to go for another round. I hope this new treatment works for your husband.

Mik - I hope those are good signs of pregnancy!


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## Stinas

MBABY - Yayyyy amazing news and wonderful lines!!


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## Miraclbaby

mbaby congrats!!!


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## babadespls

MBABY2014 said:


> Hope this works!!
> 
> What does everyone think??

I do see 2 lines, how exciting:happydance:


----------



## MBABY2014

This just in- it's official!!!

Beta #1 : 106!!!!!

Beta number 2 on Monday!!

Any thoughts on the number? 1 or 2?

I am SO thrilled!'n


----------



## Mikihob

That is great mbaby. I am not sure about the numbers but I am still so psyched you got your BFP! Are you hoping for 1 or 2? 

Update on me: 
My IUI was April 24 so I went yesterday and had a serum progesterone to confirm I ovulated. My docs nurse called and said my levels were at 44!!! My highest to date was 28. I don't know if that means I could have a BFP or not, but I am happy!!


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## MoBaby

i say just 1:) never know!!


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## MBABY2014

What were your betas Mo??

I know I'm no where close to being 'out of the water'- but I wanted to tell all the wonderfully strong ladies on this forum- to remember to NEVER give up!! to keep on trying..and stay positive...my miracle is happening and you all will get yours in your time!!


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## bubumaci

I am so loving the news!!
What dpo are you? You can see my betas in my siggy. 

44 sounds good too Miki! Aren't they testing HCG?


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## MBABY2014

BuB- I am 10DP5DT.. I think that would equate to 15DPO

Is that correct??


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## MoBaby

mbaby my betas were high for 1...691 at 11dpt and over 2200 (or was it 2400) for 13dpt...so I'm not good to compare to!


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## MBABY2014

Mikihob said:


> That is great mbaby. I am not sure about the numbers but I am still so psyched you got your BFP! Are you hoping for 1 or 2?
> 
> Update on me:
> My IUI was April 24 so I went yesterday and had a serum progesterone to confirm I ovulated. My docs nurse called and said my levels were at 44!!! My highest to date was 28. I don't know if that means I could have a BFP or not, but I am happy!!

Great about the serum levels!!! How are you feeling??


----------



## bubumaci

MBABY2014 said:


> BuB- I am 10DP5DT.. I think that would equate to 15DPO
> 
> Is that correct??

Yes, so if you were 10dp5dt that would be the equivalent of 15dpo. 
As a comparison, at 9dp5dt (so 14 dpo) mine was 118. And I had good doubling times :) (from 27 three days earlier, to 2239 one week later and 34378 nine days after that). 
My bet would also be on one, but it'll be the doubling time / numbers at your next beta that will "say the most"... :happydance::kiss: can't wait to hear your number :)


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## deafgal01

Yay mb!


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## MBABY2014

Wow MO! Super high.... Should I be nervous?


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## Mikihob

Bubumaci they aren't testing my HCG levels. My doc just wanted to confirm ovulation since I have a history of not ovulating. I plan to POAS this coming week. Eeeek!!!! :baby:

MBABY I actually feel pretty good. My boobs still hurt and I am a little queasy but those are both Clomid side effects I get. Other than being very thirsty and peeing all the time I feel "normal". I started my vacation yesterday morning so I will have lots to distract me from the urge to POAS. How are you feeling?


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## bubumaci

Mbaby, no, your number is great! When is your second beta?

Miki, I think your progesterone sounds great too! Mine really shot up with this try, but I also had many follicles that all seemed hell bent on producing progesterone :). 44 sound like a good number to me :)
When are you going to POAS this week?? I'm excited :)


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## Ariannda

MBABY2014 said:


> This just in- it's official!!!
> 
> Beta #1 : 106!!!!!
> 
> Beta number 2 on Monday!!
> 
> Any thoughts on the number? 1 or 2?
> 
> I am SO thrilled!'n

106 falls well within the normal for 1 range. My Betas were 96 at 14DPO (IUI) , 214 (two days later) and 2400 (a week later). We assumed one, TWO ! Progesterone is apparently a better indicator than HcG for multiples


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## MBABY2014

Wow! Adrian!! So I guess I won't know till
Next Thursday anyway...

Next beta is Monday

I'm feeling great!!


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## Ariannda

MBABY2014 said:


> Wow! Adrian!! So I guess I won't know till
> Next Thursday anyway...
> 
> Next beta is Monday
> 
> I'm feeling great!!


My first u/s at 6 weeks showed 2 sacs but was too early for HB, so we still held out until week 7 (my picture) where there were certainly 2 babies and heart beats :)


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## MoBaby

Your numbers are perfect! My last unsuccessful pregnancy (1 transferred) I had even higher betas. I just make a lot hcg.


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## Miraclbaby

Hi everyone. Hope everybody is doing well. Our mTese and ivf with Dr. Schlegel are planned for the end of May. The doctor send me prescription for birth control.he told me to start on the second day of my period. Usually my period is perfect. It's perfectly on time. Surprisingly this time I am still waiting for it. It supposed to come Friday evening. Is that happening because I m nervous? Or do I think too much about it?


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## MBABY2014

Hi Miracle
You are probably stressed! Just relax

Are you cycling at Cornell? I am as well!!


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## Miraclbaby

Yes I am  how was your experience with Cornell? Hope you don't mind me asking if your husband got the mtese done. I'm glad it worked for you. 
I don't know if I m stressed... I just came back from vacation and we spend wonderful days at the beach. But maybe you are right and it's not clear to me...


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## sharon99

Mbaby, still so happy for you! And Miki, I'm sending lots of good thoughts for your test this week!

So here's something weird- I had lunch with 2 separate friends this week who I knew had struggled with infertility (but I didn't know the details). One has been trying for 6 years, the other has a beautiful son via IVF. I told both of them this week about hubby's azoo diagnosis, and both of their partners HAD THE SAME THING!!! 2 people in one week, both with zero sperm count!! It makes me wonder how many others are going through and we don't even know it. My friend via IVF used a sperm donor, too, and I am so happy I shared with her and know somebody in real life who's done the same thing. And their son looks just like his dad- I never would have guessed.


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## MBABY2014

Sharon- no way!! That's funny ;)

Miracle- I love Cornell- I'm with dr.Chung- what about you??

My hubby did have the procedure but not with dr.Shalgel..we used his dads urologist.., as this is the doctor we went to when we first heard about his diagnosis. Dr.Chung was happy to work with him as he is a well known urologist in NYC. We had great results and are currently awaiting beta #2 on Monday. I have heard GREAT things about Shalgel- you are In very very good hands!!

Let me know if you have any questions- when is it scheduled for? Did your P show up yet?


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## gem10

Sharon, thats crazy! It does make you wonder how many of our friends babies have been conceived the same way.

AFM- I am not sure why, but all of a sudden this past week I have felt an overwhelming feeling of depression. Almost as bad as when I first found out my cycles didnt work. It was horrible!! My hubby talked me off the ledge, as always. But strangely enough, my RE called me the very next day to see how I am doing, and to see when we would like to try again. We have to wait until July as our urologist wants at least 6 months for my hubby to heal. I dont think it was a micro tese, but just a tese which is why he is in so much pain. I have decided not to tell anyone we are going to try again. I will try to go about life as normal, and just keep this to myself. I am hoping that maybe since I will not be working, it may help us to have a successful cycle. I have also considered doing half DH and half donor. DH is not feeling 100% about that yet. He feels it will decrease his odds. But I dont want to have to do the shots again of we end up with nothing again. We have never had anything leftover to freeze. We just get one or two to transfer, and thats it. He would rather do full him, or full donor. I dont know though. I also went to purchase lifetime photos of the donor we chose and it turns out there are none. His description is my DH to a tew, right down to the blood type! I cant decide if it is better to know what he looks like or not. What do you ladies think that are using donor? We can always go back and choose another, but as you know it is very costly. Anyway, just trying to not put so much pressure on myself this time. I feel myself doing the research and cutting this and that out of the diet, but it made no difference last time, except helping me lose ten pounds! Lol. Thoughts? I just cant wait to not feel like this anymore. I know our time will come, but its so hard not knowing when our how. I have been fine, but out of.no where this feeling has overwhelmed me again. AF is probably on her way! Lol. 

Mik, thinking of you and hoping you have success!

Bub, hope you are feeling well, and Sharon too! 

To anyone I missed, I hope you all are doing well, no matter the stage you are in. I continue to watch from the sidelines and keep you all in my thoughts everyday!


----------



## Rainbow123

Hi Gem. Sorry you are feeling so rubbish at the moment. This has happened to me recently too. I had a roller coaster of emotions after DH's mTESE (no sperm found). Went from feeling really rubbish to feeling excited and optimistic for the first time in 2 years, to feeling absolutely rock bottom again. I'm now feeling pretty positive, with our DIUI coming up in about two weeks, but it is strange how you can feel like you're doing ok then suddenly be back in that dark place, seemingly overnight. 
With regards to the photos, I was really curious about them and really wanted to see a photo of our donor, but DH was so against it, there was no changing his mind. I think he felt that it would be etched on his/my mind and then there's nothing you can do to take it back. So then I suggested we looked at the baby photos of our two favourite donors, which DH was ok with. Problem is, after looking at the first one, which was a cute little baby, the second one (can I just point out it was advertised as a BABY photo), was of a child who must have been at least 6 years old. That was a bit weird. He looks nothing like my DH. We did end up going with the second one, not because of how he looked, but because of his profile. I liked reading about his reasons for becoming a donor, and I got a good feeling about him from other things he had written, like how it was a privilege to be a parent (he has a daughter). I do kind of wish I hadn't seen his "baby" photo now, but you can't turn back time! 
Good luck with your choices Gem. I hope you are feeling lots better today. Lots of love XXXXXXX


----------



## bubumaci

Oh Gem, I am sorry that you are feeling so crappy! I hope that today things are looking a bit brighter again?

Ooooh Rainbow ... 2 weeks :) how exciting!

MBaby ... when do we hear your numbers? Can't wait!!!! :dance:

Copying from my journal:
Today finally arrived (nope, my suitcase hasn't yet, but we are expecting it some time tonight) and we drove to the gynaecologist this morning ...

Pünktchen is perfect! There is simply no other word to describe it!
... OK - I will get it out right at the beginning. The doctor looked and looked and said "well, I don't see anything ... the umbilical cord is a bit in the way ... but ... *provisionally* I think it is a girl" ... so it looks like it will be team :pink: and a Miss Pünktchen! (We go again in around 3 weeks or so, perhaps we will get more certainty then?) ...

NT-Scan - also perfect! She said there was practically nothing there! So we still have to wait for the bloods and can expect to hear in about a week or so, what our "statistics" are - but we are not worried!

Pünktchen waved at us, measures just under 8cms CRL ... at one point, she turned on her belly and stuck her bottom in the air .. "that's my girl, I thought" *grin* And DH was so sweet, he was stroking my foot and - looked like - blown away by what we were seeing. Proud Daddy :)

Blood pressure perfect, iron levels perfect, plenty of amniotic fluid for her to swim around in ... perfect looking spine, ribs, hands (you'll see on the pictures), sweet little profile... she is just perfect :cloud9:

We have about 9 pictures, but I am only uploading three. One full body picture, one with her waving and the last one, where we can see (we heard) the heartbeat <3
 



Attached Files:







US PÃ¼nktchen 05.05.2014 - Profil - GanzkÃ¶rper.png
File size: 230.4 KB
Views: 4









US PÃ¼nktchen 05.05.2014 - Waving 2.png
File size: 233 KB
Views: 4









US PÃ¼nktchen 05.05.2014 HB.png
File size: 235.6 KB
Views: 3


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## snd80

How did I miss Mbaby's news?!!!! :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Congrats!!!!!

And with twins, my first beta was like 263, second was 750 and third was over 9500. So could be, could be not?! You'll know come first scan!!!! :winkwink:

How is everyone else? :hugs:


----------



## gem10

Rainbow, thank you. Your experience helped me feel better about my decision. We did see a baby photo (not very good) and his profile. Its hard to tell what they truly look like. I find myself looking
at my husbands profile, and I think, he wouldn't look all that great in a silhouete either! :rofl: Part of me feels I should stick with my original choice. I chose him because his description was perfect, he was healthy, and the staff raved about his personality. At the end of the day, that's all that really matters. 

I am still up in the air about our July cycle. Part of me feels let's give DH one more full shot with all of my eggs. The other half of me worries it wont work again and I will wish I had some frozen back up eggs. I go to the doctor for my June period, and wont cycle until the end of July. Retrieval will be around the 28th, so we have some time.

In the meantime, I going to try my best to stay happy, healthy and positive! Not always easy, but I have to try!

Thanks for your kind words Rainbiw and Bub, it really helps! Bub, I cant believe how big your little girl is! It seems like yesterday you found out you were pregnant! I am so happy for you! You are my inspiration, I give you lots of credit for never giving up. Snd, how are you feeling with the twins! You must be very excited! Rainbow, I will keep my fingers crossed for your DIUI!


----------



## MBABY2014

Hi ladies!

Gem- sorry your feeling down... But excited that you have some steps coming up this summer!! Any updates with the herbs/supplements?

BuB- wow- I'm amazed those pictures are beautiful
- she's beautiful, you must feel so blessed!

AFM- did I forget to share my beta??? OPPS!! 

Beta 1- 106 (5/1)
Beta 2- 548 (5/5)

Next up- beta 3 and 5 week US!! I'm so nervous! BUT SO HAPPY with today's beta! I'm so curious to see if it's 1 or 2!!


----------



## MoBaby

Great increase!! Congrats!!


----------



## Miraclbaby

Hi mbaby .
Yup period came. Starting my birth control tomorrow. I m cycling with Dr. Pfeiffer. Dr. Schlegel recommended her. But I'm having a hard time getting anybody on the phone :-( hope the nurses are nicer in person.


----------



## sharon99

I'm sorry you're feeling so down, Gem. Faced with so many big decisions, it seems perfectly natural to me to feel overwhelmed and depressed. It's a lot to deal with. In answer to your donor photo question... I did see adult pictures, and I can't really say if I am happy I did or not. We had pretty much settled on that donor anyway, based on a lot of the things you mentioned- background, health, personality, etc. DH didn't want to see adult (he was fine with baby)... and, I don't know. It's like Rainbow said, you can't unsee a photograph- and he doesn't look much like DH anyway. So if it's just the photos, I'd say don't let that hold you back- seeing the pictures is a mixed bag, anyway.

Rainbow, good luck!! Weird that they advertised a 6-year-old picture as a "baby photo"... but kids/people change a ton from that age. I know when I see "celebrity baby photos" I can never tell a Brad Pitt from a George Clooney.

Bubu, your ultrasounds are beautiful!!! Congratulations! 

Mbaby, yay for the great numbers!!


----------



## bubumaci

MBaby ... :happydance: those numbers are fantastic :) :) :wohoo:


----------



## babadespls

Hi Ladies, I found a very interesting article on Azoo, specifically to men with genetic issues, just thought it would be interesting to some of you.

The just of the article: Sperm cells have been created from the skin of men who have a genetic defect that makes them infertile.

Scientists believe the technique could bring hope to men who are unable to generate enough sperm to conceive.

More immediately, the breakthrough offers researchers a method for studying sperm development and male infertility treatments.

Lead researcher Dr Reijo Pera, from the Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine at Stanford University in the US, said: &#8220;It might even be possible to transplant stem-cell-derived germ cells directly into the testes of men with problems producing sperm.&#8221;

Infertility affects up to 15 percent of couples, and Dr Pera, whose findings were published in the journal Cell Reports, said genetic causes were surprisingly prevalent among men.

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/a...m/retrieve/pii/S2211124714002642?showall=true


----------



## Rainbow123

Oh my goodness Bubumaci, those photos are so beautiful! I LOVE the photo of her waving, amazing that she is so perfectly formed when she is still so tiny! Thank you so much for sharing them, and thank you so much for all your positive messages. It is so lovely to come on here and see the progress that you and your Punktchen are making.  XXXXX


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## bubumaci

:kiss: thank you Rainbow! :kiss:


----------



## tulip11

Hi any successful stories of high fsh? My husband FSH is 13.2 today we had appointment they said we will look for sperms but there is no guarantee because fsh level is high :(


----------



## MoBaby

My dh either was 11 or 13.. But it's not that high looking at range. Our urologist gave us 65% chance of finding sperm. We never did the mtese b/c dh has a few swimmers (under 100 per sample) and that was good enough for my re for icsi.


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## MBABY2014

Hi Tulip- think my hubby's was a 16...we found a lot of sperm!
GL!!


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## gem10

Im so confused, my DH has been on chlomid sincr September and his FSH went from 18 to 28 and the doctor was happy that it went up because it meant that the chlomid was working and telling his body to make sperm. Is it something different?


----------



## MBABY2014

Gem- I think it depends on the 'diagnosis' and the cause for the AZzospermia...


----------



## Miraclbaby

Hello and thank you for your link. my husband contacted this researcher about a year ago. he recommended a Stanford urologist to us. that urologist performed a varicocele repair on my husband. we were very happy at Stanford :thumbup: But on last minute we switched to Dr Schlegel for the mTESE because he is specialized on mTESE procedure.




babadespls said:


> Hi Ladies, I found a very interesting article on Azoo, specifically to men with genetic issues, just thought it would be interesting to some of you.
> 
> The just of the article: Sperm cells have been created from the skin of men who have a genetic defect that makes them infertile.
> 
> Scientists believe the technique could bring hope to men who are unable to generate enough sperm to conceive.
> 
> More immediately, the breakthrough offers researchers a method for studying sperm development and male infertility treatments.
> 
> Lead researcher Dr Reijo Pera, from the Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine at Stanford University in the US, said: It might even be possible to transplant stem-cell-derived germ cells directly into the testes of men with problems producing sperm.
> 
> Infertility affects up to 15 percent of couples, and Dr Pera, whose findings were published in the journal Cell Reports, said genetic causes were surprisingly prevalent among men.
> 
> https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/a...m/retrieve/pii/S2211124714002642?showall=true


----------



## tulip11

Thanks MoBaby and MBABY2014 . All tests have been done just left internal ultrasound about which Dr was saying we will look for some tube which is absent in some males then we will proceed towards sperms search. My question is that if that tube is present does it makes any difference and yes my hubby testicles size is normal. Chromosome test is normal. Just problem is high fsh :(


----------



## bubumaci

I'm afraid I can't comment on the FSH levels, as DH's were all normal...

Not sure, but I think in the ultrasound they also check for blockages, which might be causing the Azoo ...? If there is a blockage, then the TESE / mTESE is likely to be successful for retrieval, because that is what's causing there to be little or no sperm in the ejaculate. I might be wrong, but I think that is what they checked when they did the internal u/s for DH.

For my DH unfortunately, we have absolutely no explanation - it is non-obstructive, genetics were fine, FSH levels were fine, hormones were all fine ... seems to have been born with it. We had the one freak success after the Tamoxifen, one time ... he does produce few sperm, which are not good quality and we have no explanation as to why or where it comes from.

When will DH be getting the ultrasound? Good luck for it :) :) I hope you get some helpful results! :hugs2:


----------



## tulip11

bubumaci said:


> I'm afraid I can't comment on the FSH levels, as DH's were all normal...
> 
> Not sure, but I think in the ultrasound they also check for blockages, which might be causing the Azoo ...? If there is a blockage, then the TESE / mTESE is likely to be successful for retrieval, because that is what's causing there to be little or no sperm in the ejaculate. I might be wrong, but I think that is what they checked when they did the internal u/s for DH.
> 
> For my DH unfortunately, we have absolutely no explanation - it is non-obstructive, genetics were fine, FSH levels were fine, hormones were all fine ... seems to have been born with it. We had the one freak success after the Tamoxifen, one time ... he does produce few sperm, which are not good quality and we have no explanation as to why or where it comes from.
> 
> When will DH be getting the ultrasound? Good luck for it :) :) I hope you get some helpful results! :hugs2:

thanks hun:hugs: they checked the blockage in first ultrasound so there was no bblockage and we will get referral letter for next ultrasound within 6 weeks. I am feeling so down as everyone is getting so pregnant easily around me sometimes think may be I will never be a mother :cry:


----------



## bubumaci

:hugs2:
I just wanted to post this poem that I found on a girl's website. I am not sure, I think she tried IVF a couple of times / IUI ... and has been approved to adopt from Haiti. The couple has a lovely website / blog and at the very beginning, is this poem. It is very beautiful and very very true... The journey is long and hard and I believe that all of us in one way or another will be Mothers :kiss:


_Thoughts on Becoming a Mother_

There are women that become mothers without effort, without thought, without patience or loss, and though they are good mothers and love their children, I know that I will be better.
I will be better not because of genetics, or money, or that I have read more books, but because I have struggled and toiled for this child.
I have longed and waited. I have cried and prayed.
I have endured and planned over and over again.
Like most things in life, the people who truly have appreciation are those who have struggled to attain their dreams.
I will notice everything about my child.
I will take time to watch my child sleep, explore and discover. I will marvel at this miracle every day for the rest of my life.
I will be happy when I wake in the middle of the night to the sound of my child, knowing that I can comfort, hold, and feed him.

I will not wake to track another temperature, take another pill, prepare another injection or shed another tear.
I count myself lucky in this sense; that God has given me this insight, this special vision with which I will look upon my child that my friends and family will never see.

I will be a better mother for all that I have endured. I am a better wife, a better daughter, neighbor, friend and sister because I have known pain. I have been tried by fire and hell many may never face, yet given time, I stood tall.
I have prevailed. I have succeeded. I have won.
So now, when others hurt around me, I do not run from their pain in order to save myself discomfort. I see it, mourn it, and join them in theirs.
I listen. And even though I can&#8217;t make it better, I can make it less lonely.

I have learned the power of another hand holding tight to mine, of other eyes that moisten as they learn to accept the harsh truth, and when life is beyond hard, I have learned a compassion that only comes with walking in those shoes.
I have learned to appreciate life.
Yes, I will be a wonderful mother.

- Anonymous


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## rdleela

Tulip, I just wanted to chime in about the ultrasounds - my hubby had a scrotal ultrasound and a rectal ultrasound, and neither showed anything, and he does in fact have a blockage, it just didn't show up on the scans. He has a ton of scarring that basically cinched him off. Once hubby got the biopsy we decided to have a surgery to by-pass the blockage (basically a vasectomy reversal) that was successful. So it's possible even if the next ultrasound doesn't show anything, that it could still be a blockage. Best of luck!


----------



## gem10

Just wanted to come on and wish all of you a happy mothers day. For those of you who have a little one, have a bun in the oven, or, like me, just have a baby in your heart, we are all mothers in a way. This day is always hard for me, but one day it will be our turn. If you have a baby in your heart and dreams, you deserve to celebrate this day...plus, celebrate those fur babies!! Anyway, thinking of each of you today my azoo girls.


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## deafgal01

Thanks. Finding today rather hard.


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## gem10

Me too, deafgal. Hating facebook today especially. It will be our turn someday. I feel like it should be womens day. If you dont have kids, you are a still the woman of your family, and thats what counts. Just know youre not alone today. Have a cocktail and toast to your DH. I have a friend who I work with in her fifties, they never had kids, so they celebrate "Sweethearts Day" instead. I really like that idea


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## deafgal01

I have avoided Facebook today so far. Last night was more than I could bear with early pics and statuses related to Mother's Day.


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## rdleela

I completely agree with the fact that we all have our baby's in our hearts! We are also great fur-mommies, and great aunties! I always try to just really celebrate my mom and grandmas on Mother's Day, they did a helluva job raising me! ;) Have a good day, everyone!


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## bubumaci

I love the idea of sweethearts day!
Particularly missing not being able to wish my Mother Happy Mother's Day (well, last Sunday, in Hungary, it's always the first Sunday in May) - today we were at my MIL, as it is also Mothering Sunday in Germany today... xxx


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## MBABY2014

Beautifully said Gem

Thinking of all you ladies today!


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## Stinas

I agree with the other ladies....Mothers Day to me is for everyone. Fur babies, grandmas, aunties, best friends babies that look up to you as a mommy.......its a ton of things to celebrate. 
BUT......last year, I didn't want to be bothered with looking at Facebook....so I understand.


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## babadespls

gem10 said:


> Im so confused, my DH has been on chlomid sincr September and his FSH went from 18 to 28 and the doctor was happy that it went up because it meant that the chlomid was working and telling his body to make sperm. Is it something different?

Hi Gem, Do you mind me asking what diagnosis your husband has, as mine has high FSH of 20 and doctors have never prescribed Chlomid for him and I'm wondering if perhaps he should be on it.

On a side note, as I understand (but am no expert at all) is that high FSH levels indicate that little or no sperms are been produced, FSH is really the brain communicating to the testicles to produce. So High FSH is the result of little or no sperms been produced not the cause.


----------



## babadespls

tulip11 said:


> Hi any successful stories of high fsh? My husband FSH is 13.2 today we had appointment they said we will look for sperms but there is no guarantee because fsh level is high :(

Hi Tulip11, 

I think your husbands levels are only slightly elevated.

See below:

Normal FSH level will differ depending on a person's age and gender.
Male
&#9702;Before puberty: 0 - 5.0 mIU/ml
&#9702;During puberty: 0.3 - 10.0 mIU/ml
&#9702;*Adult: 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml*


----------



## Miraclbaby

hello everyone. hope you all are doing well. I ll be starting my stimulation in 2 weeks. My doctor gave me 4 names of medication and she wanted me to find out if my insurance covers them. I have a good insurance but it doesnt cover any of my medication.
So my question to all of you: 
Where can I purchase the following products:
1 Folistim
2 Gonal F
3 Menopur
4 Ganirelix

I have no experience with IVF/ICSI. How much do I have to purchase?
I talked to the specialty pharmacy of my insurance and she told me that just the cost for folistim is over $1500. But she also gave me the advice that there are pharmacy who sells them for less money. 
Hope somebody can help me out.


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## snd80

Miracl - Look up Alexander's Twin Pharmacy. That is where I got mine. They are out of Trenton, NJ. Plus they had a discount program for the Folistim and Menopur so my meds totaled around $1400 after discounts instead of the anticipated $2800. I think your dr. has to call the order into them though... I'd ask when I called.

Good luck!!!


----------



## gem10

babadespls said:


> gem10 said:
> 
> 
> Im so confused, my DH has been on chlomid sincr September and his FSH went from 18 to 28 and the doctor was happy that it went up because it meant that the chlomid was working and telling his body to make sperm. Is it something different?
> 
> Hi Gem, Do you mind me asking what diagnosis your husband has, as mine has high FSH of 20 and doctors have never prescribed Chlomid for him and I'm wondering if perhaps he should be on it.
> 
> On a side note, as I understand (but am no expert at all) is that high FSH levels indicate that little or no sperms are been produced, FSH is really the brain communicating to the testicles to produce. So High FSH is the result of little or no sperms been produced not the cause.Click to expand...

Bab, my husband was born with two undescended testicles. He had corrective surgery when he was around four or five. He has zero sperm on all SA, but they are able to find some sperm through TESE. We will be having our third TESE/IVF this summer. He has been on chlomid since September, but it didnt make much of a difference in our January cycle, unfortunately. So I cant say whether it is good or bad really.


----------



## tulip11

babadespls said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi any successful stories of high fsh? My husband FSH is 13.2 today we had appointment they said we will look for sperms but there is no guarantee because fsh level is high :(
> 
> Hi Tulip11,
> 
> I think your husbands levels are only slightly elevated.
> 
> See below:
> 
> Normal FSH level will differ depending on a person's age and gender.
> Male
> &#9702;Before puberty: 0 - 5.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;During puberty: 0.3 - 10.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;*Adult: 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml*Click to expand...

yes thats what i think that there is slight difference than why they call it as its very high :( thanks


----------



## tulip11

gem10 said:


> Im so confused, my DH has been on chlomid sincr September and his FSH went from 18 to 28 and the doctor was happy that it went up because it meant that the chlomid was working and telling his body to make sperm. Is it something different?

hi my hubby FSH is 13.2 dr put him on clomid as well but that didnt work out.


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## MrsG30

Tulip,

My hubby fsh is 35.1, or it was when last checked, the DR said the chance of finding sperm was no different to a guy with a slightly elevated one, and they can never tell until there in there. Hope thats useful. he said he gives all of his patients a 40%.

ladies from the UK, are our IVF meds covered under the nhs, like a normal prescriptions? 

Hope everyone is doing ok xxxxx



tulip11 said:


> babadespls said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi any successful stories of high fsh? My husband FSH is 13.2 today we had appointment they said we will look for sperms but there is no guarantee because fsh level is high :(
> 
> Hi Tulip11,
> 
> I think your husbands levels are only slightly elevated.
> 
> See below:
> 
> Normal FSH level will differ depending on a person's age and gender.
> Male
> &#9702;Before puberty: 0 - 5.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;During puberty: 0.3 - 10.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;*Adult: 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml*Click to expand...
> 
> yes thats what i think that there is slight difference than why they call it as its very high :( thanksClick to expand...


----------



## Rainbow123

Are you getting started now then Danielle? 

Just to let you all know that yesterday DH and I went over to Leeds to have our first shot at DIUI. My head hasn't quite caught up with itself yet, which I'm kind of glad of because as soon as it does I know I'm going to start getting crazy impatient over the 2ww! Going to be testing on either 30th or 31st May, if AF hasn't shown. 

Lots of love to all you lovely ladies! XXXXXXX


----------



## MBABY2014

Hi ladies!!

I just wanted to share the amazing news I got today!!

We had US #2 and we saw a beautiful baby and heard the heartbeat! It was one of the most magical times of my life!

My little bean is measuring 6.1 and has a HB of 110.., with an EDD of Jan 8!!

This is truly a miracle for me and for couples dealing with AZzospermia! Don't give up my friends!! Your miracle will happen too!!

How is everyone else doing?? Thinking of you ladies all the time
Xoxo


----------



## deafgal01

Doing ok for now. Wasn't in great shape last weekend as I cried a lot but I seem fine now. Husband wants me to see counselor soon even if it is to just talk my feelings and thoughts out.


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## MBABY2014

I have been seeing someone since our diagnosis and have found it very helpful..

Are you planning another IUI?


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## deafgal01

Yes and no. Right now we are supposed to research home insemination as a cheaper alternative. Not sure if that would fare better since IUI did not work for me both times and i feel like it should have since my tubes were clear and all, but then again I have not had 6 actual tries yet so maybe I am one of those people who take longer to get knocked up. I am now thinking about adoption as well, it is on the table but we have not discussed it any.


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## MBABY2014

Would you consider IVF w donor sperm?

I think IUI just don't work for everyone/ I know 2 women who had multiple IUI's (5 plus) with no luck; however they both got pregnant on IVF try # 1... Maybe something to think about..


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## deafgal01

Ivf is too expensive and insurance covers none of it so trying to do this without getting into deeper debt. We still have debts from college and stuff that we are paying off, taking a while but we are determined to get it paid off eventually. Btw I am very proud for not having gotten into debt with medical bills or the whole IUI thing.


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## MBABY2014

I hear ya!! We paid mostly out of pocket too... Spent a lot of our savings... Why can't it just be easy! Stay strong!


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## Rainbow123

Aw MBABY! How wonderful, I am so happy for you! It must be so magical! Will you be finding out the sex of the baby or do you want it to be a surprise?
So pleased for you! :hugs:
XXXXXXXXX


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## MBABY2014

Thank you Rainbow!! Yes! I would like to find out the sex! I have had enough suprises throughout this journey!!! Xoxo


----------



## chantalmx

Hello ladies , Im new here but not new to AZOO .... 

March IVF _ICSI cancelled bc hubbs sample was only4 spermies 
Hubbs froze 2 samples with a pilot thaw of 2 non-motile 

Advised for him to stay on Clomid 90 days + Vitamins overdose 

May SPERM SAMPLE NO CHANGE 

IVF _ICSI calendar still scheduled for JUNE 17
New appt with Fertility Urologist 05/20 to talk about options 

_Many of you have gone through this road before or currently on the path to success , I need to know ~~ > would you go for the aspiration ? or work with the 4 spermies you have with finger crossed? The doctor also mentioned another genetic testing called Y-micodelection , does anyone have any experience with this ??? _


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## bubumaci

MBaby - what fantastic news! So stoked for you :) :hugs::kiss:

Hi Chantal! :howdy:
Hmm - never heard of Y-micodelection myself - what does that involve? My DH had all the testing done, but there was no indication as to why he has the Azoo ...
I am not sure what I would do in your shoes ... Do you know if the Azoo is obstructive or non-obstructive? If it is obstructive, then it might be a good idea to go for the aspiration ...


----------



## MoBaby

Mbaby congrats on your scan and hearing heartbeat!


----------



## MoBaby

Chanta we did y deletion test.. It wasn't found. That can be passed down to the males and it can cause miscarriages I think the re said so we would have done generic testing if it was positive.

Aspiration will probably be needed. Doesn't you many to work with and you'll have to freeze the other eggs and frozen eggs aren't as strong. But the mtese is very invasive. Maybe you could try with a fresh sample? My re advises us to have a donor backup but we never did. His next sample may end up with 10-20 motile. And the aspiration may have none or some. You never know. If those 4 speed are strong you could end up with a great embryo that takes. If I were in your shoes I would do the fresh attempt first and go from there but your re may not let you. Such a hard decision! Hopefully the urologist can help making it.


----------



## awifey

Hi.

I haven't been on for awhile. Husbands diagnosis of azoo was confirmed (we'd only had the counts done before, he hadn't seen a doctor). 

The urologist says his testes are small and likely aren't producing anything, thinks it could be a pituitary gland issue.

Has anyone here dealt with pituitary gland azoospermia?

Please message me if you have.

Thanks.


----------



## chantalmx

It's non obstructive being his fsh levels were high at 23 ....






bubumaci said:


> MBaby - what fantastic news! So stoked for you :) :hugs::kiss:
> 
> Hi Chantal! :howdy:
> Hmm - never heard of Y-micodelection myself - what does that involve? My DH had all the testing done, but there was no indication as to why he has the Azoo ...
> I am not sure what I would do in your shoes ... Do you know if the Azoo is obstructive or non-obstructive? If it is obstructive, then it might be a good idea to go for the aspiration ...


----------



## chantalmx

Those were my thoughts exactly, what are the condition of the 4 they are finding . Technically you party extra for ISCI because you have a very low sample, with that being said why would I do a back up with ISCI , I rather freeze my eggs with hopes of a solution in the future .... we have an appointment on Tuesday with the fertility urologist again and there are a couple of procedures TESA/PESA ... TESE/MESA , the first two are done in the office with a butterfly needle for aspiration and the other are on the operation table which I dint want for hubbs if we can avoid :/ 





MoBaby said:


> Chanta we did y deletion test.. It wasn't found. That can be passed down to the males and it can cause miscarriages I think the re said so we would have done generic testing if it was positive.
> 
> Aspiration will probably be needed. Doesn't you many to work with and you'll have to freeze the other eggs and frozen eggs aren't as strong. But the mtese is very invasive. Maybe you could try with a fresh sample? My re advises us to have a donor backup but we never did. His next sample may end up with 10-20 motile. And the aspiration may have none or some. You never know. If those 4 speed are strong you could end up with a great embryo that takes. If I were in your shoes I would do the fresh attempt first and go from there but your re may not let you. Such a hard decision! Hopefully the urologist can help making it.


----------



## Miraclbaby

Hi SND80
I wanted to thank you again. I just called a couple pharmacies and ask them about the prices. AT the end i called Alexanders Twin Pharmacy as well. Their prices are unbeatable!!! Thanks a lot for your reply.



snd80 said:


> Miracl - Look up Alexander's Twin Pharmacy. That is where I got mine. They are out of Trenton, NJ. Plus they had a discount program for the Folistim and Menopur so my meds totaled around $1400 after discounts instead of the anticipated $2800. I think your dr. has to call the order into them though... I'd ask when I called.
> 
> Good luck!!!


----------



## Mikihob

I ladies. Sorry I haven't been in in awhile, I didn't have WIFI for the entire vacation. UGH!

I took a test on May 5 and it was BFN. My period started May 12-14. My first DIUI was unsuccessful. I am now worried that we may have to cancel this month because the timing is too tight. The plan is to do the DIUI on day 8 after my last Clomid instead of day 9. Based on the serum progesterone tests, I may be ovulating on day 8. Doc is out of the office until Wed and I need to order DS for this month's cycle. If the doctor agrees with my reasoning (blood work supports it) than May 26th is our second DIUI. I will update again once I talk to my doctor. 

Second note, DH's final SA is this week. I hope that he's producing so we can have his bio babies, but if not, at least he can get back on his testosterone and feel "normal" again. I will keep you posted. 

Thanks for all the kind words, thoughts and prayers. I appreciate it more than I can say. :hugs:


----------



## rdleela

Awh, Mikihob, so sorry your first DIUI didn't work out; it sounds like you've adjusted and are planning ahead, which is good, because it really could just take a bit more time! Best of luck with DH's sample!


----------



## MrsG30

Thats fantastic news Emma.Whats the success ratings? and how many goes do you get on the NHS Hopefully you wont need them.

Were all ready to go when were ready, all the clinic papers and DS is done. i slightly nervous now as its like "here" we are having ICSI. Were planning mid summer as have some things to sort our first.

How do you both feel?

Lots of Love xxxx



Rainbow123 said:


> Are you getting started now then Danielle?
> 
> Just to let you all know that yesterday DH and I went over to Leeds to have our first shot at DIUI. My head hasn't quite caught up with itself yet, which I'm kind of glad of because as soon as it does I know I'm going to start getting crazy impatient over the 2ww! Going to be testing on either 30th or 31st May, if AF hasn't shown.
> 
> Lots of love to all you lovely ladies! XXXXXXX


----------



## babadespls

Hi Mrs G30, 

Do you mind me asking, did your hubby go for mTESE and was it successful?




MrsG30 said:


> Tulip,
> 
> My hubby fsh is 35.1, or it was when last checked, the DR said the chance of finding sperm was no different to a guy with a slightly elevated one, and they can never tell until there in there. Hope thats useful. he said he gives all of his patients a 40%.
> 
> ladies from the UK, are our IVF meds covered under the nhs, like a normal prescriptions?
> 
> Hope everyone is doing ok xxxxx
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babadespls said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi any successful stories of high fsh? My husband FSH is 13.2 today we had appointment they said we will look for sperms but there is no guarantee because fsh level is high :(
> 
> Hi Tulip11,
> 
> I think your husbands levels are only slightly elevated.
> 
> See below:
> 
> Normal FSH level will differ depending on a person's age and gender.
> Male
> &#9702;Before puberty: 0 - 5.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;During puberty: 0.3 - 10.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;*Adult: 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml*Click to expand...
> 
> yes thats what i think that there is slight difference than why they call it as its very high :( thanksClick to expand...Click to expand...


----------



## Rainbow123

How exciting that it's nearly time for your first try Danielle! I know what you mean about feeling so strange that it is finally here! I can't quite get my head round that we are in the midst of our first try either! 
I think the success rates are about 15% per cycle, so definitely not as good as IVF or ICSI. We get 6 IUIs - that's 3 non-medicated, then 3 where I will have medication to make more eggs mature - then 1 IVF.
It's all feeling a bit surreal. I've been really nervous one minute, excited another, then not very optimistic the next, but it's just great that we can even say we're trying. The FS was optimistic that we wouldn't take very long, so it's all down to chance really!
XXX


----------



## MBABY2014

Excited for you rainbow!! When is IUI 1?

Mik- sorry for the BFN! Glad to hear your ready to go again! For me- 2nd time was a charm!


----------



## bubumaci

Miki :hugs: Fingers all tightly crossed for DH's SA this week! :kiss:
MrsG - that's so exciting that your time is nearly here!! :dance:
Rainbow - so excited for you and I am glad that your doctor is so positive! :) :hugs2:


----------



## Rainbow123

MBABY - we went last Thursday, so should have an idea whether or not it has worked in just over a week! 

Did any of you pregnant ladies get any twinges that felt like your normal month's ovary twinges during your 2ww? I've broken out in spots, and getting little twinges, so wondering if my body has already got the signal that I'm not pregnant and gearing up towards AF. Flip, it's so easy to over think everything at the moment! :-S

X


----------



## Mikihob

Needing advice. Confused and worried. 

Back story. My cycles are between 30-35 days long. Usually you ovulate 14 days prior to your period. When you take Clomid you are supposed to ovulate between 5-9 days after the last pill. Last month my period started on April 7 and started Clomid on April 9. Based on the Clomid time frame I should have ovulated April 23-24. I had my IUI done on April 24. 6 days later had a progesterone test come back with levels at 44. Highest EVER. My doctor said yesterday that based on the fact that my period started May 12 I shouldn't have ovulated until April 28th. BUT my progesterone was so high which usually indicated ovulation. He said it could have been high due to a chemical pregnancy. I talked to him last night and we have my next IUI scheduled for 1:30pm on May 27th. 

My question is, has this happened to any of you?? Is is always 14 days after you ovulate that your period starts?? ARGH!!

Thanks for the advice and information. I appreciate you all SO VERY MUCH!! :hugs:


----------



## bubumaci

Rainbow - I'm afraid I can't help you there! After I had implantation, my OHSS flared up really badly, so my ovaries were painful, I was very swollen and in quite a bit of discomfort with the rising HCG....

Miki - luteal phases most of the time will vary. Not all women and not every month will have a 14 day luteal phase - so no - it is not always 14 days after you ovulate that your period starts. Some women have shorter luteal phases and others will have longer luteal phases ... I do agree that your progesterone levels (and certainly for no "help") were high and to me would indicate that you ovulated and / got pregnant..
Was this the only test done to indicate whether or not you were ovulating and the IUI was just done "blind"?
For the following try, I certainly would recommend more monitoring to make sure that you ovulate! With ovulation tests + perhaps even blood tests... :hugs:


----------



## Mikihob

Bubumaci, Yes the progesterone was the only test. I have been using OPK's but aren't getting positives. BUT I was basing my dates on an ovulation calculator based on my Clomid start date. I now think that the Clomid O calculator is based on a 28 day cycle and mine are 30-36. Basically I should have continued OPK's for another week to see if I O'd later. I am going to re-schedule my IUI for later in the cycle and then tell my doctor if I get a positive before hand. But at least the IUI will be done later and hopefully closer to ovulation. 

A chemical pregnancy makes sense, because my progesterone test is usually between 20-28 so it being so high was a shock to me. I assumed that it meant I ovulated a lot. lol. 

This month I am doing the OPK's longer and will have the progesterone and HCG blood draws to verify ovulation, and whether or not I get pregnant. I am talking to my doctor about ultrasound monitoring and HCG trigger for the 3rd IUI. Hopefully I won't need it, but if I do, I want to be fully monitored and get the trigger.


----------



## Rainbow123

I agree that you need to be monitored more closely. I went in on Day 9 to check how my follicles were developing with an ultrasound, then back in on Day 13. This gave my FS the information she needed, along with an ovulation kit I'd done that morning which said I wasn't surging, to book me in for IUI on Day 15. She gave me Pregnyl (which I injected that night) which made sure I would ovulate on Day 15. It really gave me peace of mind when I could see my follicles on the screen, so I definitely recommend it.
Good luck with getting things sorted Miki.
X


----------



## Rainbow123

How's everything going with you Bubumaci? I see your baby is now the size of an avocado! Cute! 
XXX


----------



## bubumaci

Miki - that's great that you will be monitored more closely :) :kiss:

Rainbow, I am doing very well, thank you! Just spent a few days away with close family (visiting from the US) so that was really nice. And Pünktchen seems to be swimming around happily... today, I was outside for a few minutes enjoying the sunshine while on a break from work and felt the flutters and could only think, how very surreal it all is... after going through so much and fighting so hard ... I still can't believe that I have a little being growing inside of me! <3
The fruit tickers are so funny - some apps say avocado / orange / other fruit - but I still think it is a nice idea :) :hugs2:


----------



## Mikihob

Updates from me

DH went for his SA yesterday morning and then stopped by the records department last night to get the results. We didn't want to wait forever for his busy Seattle doctor to call us. It was, as expected, zero. He is officially not making spermies. After 3 months of HCG injections and 6 months of HCG&FSH injections he is done. He is going to start his testosterone again so that he can at least be "normal". We are officially using DS for all of our babies. I knew this was going to happen, but still, it was a blow. 

A happier note, my DIUI is scheduled for May 30. I pushed it back a few days hoping to catch O time better. I just hope that I actually get a positive OPK this month. Man that's irritating. 

Sorry for another long post. :wacko: :flower:


----------



## sharon99

Miki, I'm sorry to hear about your DH's analysis. No matter how prepared you were, it still must be a shock. And sorry to hear #1 didn't work. I think your plan for more testing/waiting longer for next cycle sounds excellent. I know my ovulation wasn't 14 days before period- it was consistently 10 or 11. I'm not sure if Clomid affects that at all? I will keep my fingers crossed for next cycle! And I read somewhere that chemical pregnancies can actually improve your chances for success the next cycle- as if your body is now primed for pregnancy.

Rainbow, good luck in your TWW! I didn't feel anything before my positive- sorry to not be of much help! The only thing I felt was some lightheadedness right before/when my period was due... but that was maybe due to the stress of thinking AF would arrive at any moment! PS, that was our protocol, too- 3 unmedicated, then move on to 3 medicated.

Hugs to everyone else! Bubu, I *think* I've started feeling movement, too- it's hard to tell! We should (hopefully) find out next week if it's a boy or a girl!


----------



## Mikihob

sharon I have heard of Clomid causing early ovulation and late ovulation. It's hard to tell unless I get blood or ultrasound monitoring- which I will if this IUI doesn't work. Hopefully. 

Ladies I finally create a TTC journal. If you could click and see if the link actually takes you there I would appreciate it. Not sure if I am doing it right. :wacko: 

My LTTTC Journal


----------



## bubumaci

Miki - I'm sorry love! :hugs2: ... no matter how well you prepare for some things, they still hit you really hard! (If it is any consolation, my last three tries were : chemical, chemical, BFP ...) :kiss:

Sharon - how exciting!! How far along are you now? At our u/s on May 5th (14w), my doctor was pretty sure we are having a little girl - but because the umbilical cord was in the way, didn't want to give a definite answer ... so next Tuesday (17+1) I am hoping that Pünktchen co-operates and we will know for sure. Do you have any gut feelings as to gender? :)

p.s. Miki - yep, working, I am already there on your journal :kiss:


----------



## MrsG30

Hi Hun

no he didnt we decided we would go straight to donor, for many reasons, main ones being the severity of the op and my hubbys job, the long term effects it could cause, ie- impact on sex drive and he already feels like "hes not a man", the worry of what any further disappointment would do to him and that we had long ago always said we would adopt or use donor sperm so with that and advise fro a urologist and fertility specialist we decide to concentre on me. my hubby thinks "removing the problem/hi gives us a better chance as im fine and so is our donor. Time will tell i guess.

Were also using a known donor whcih is a diff story lol xxx


Ea love, how are you? any testing yet whens OTD?thats good about 6 then 1 xxxx

love to all xxx


babadespls said:


> Hi Mrs G30,
> 
> Do you mind me asking, did your hubby go for mTESE and was it successful?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrsG30 said:
> 
> 
> Tulip,
> 
> My hubby fsh is 35.1, or it was when last checked, the DR said the chance of finding sperm was no different to a guy with a slightly elevated one, and they can never tell until there in there. Hope thats useful. he said he gives all of his patients a 40%.
> 
> ladies from the UK, are our IVF meds covered under the nhs, like a normal prescriptions?
> 
> Hope everyone is doing ok xxxxx
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babadespls said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Hi any successful stories of high fsh? My husband FSH is 13.2 today we had appointment they said we will look for sperms but there is no guarantee because fsh level is high :(
> 
> Hi Tulip11,
> 
> I think your husbands levels are only slightly elevated.
> 
> See below:
> 
> Normal FSH level will differ depending on a person's age and gender.
> Male
> &#9702;Before puberty: 0 - 5.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;During puberty: 0.3 - 10.0 mIU/ml
> &#9702;*Adult: 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml*Click to expand...
> 
> yes thats what i think that there is slight difference than why they call it as its very high :( thanksClick to expand...
> 
> Click to expand...Click to expand...




Rainbow123 said:


> How exciting that it's nearly time for your first try Danielle! I know what you mean about feeling so strange that it is finally here! I can't quite get my head round that we are in the midst of our first try either!
> I think the success rates are about 15% per cycle, so definitely not as good as IVF or ICSI. We get 6 IUIs - that's 3 non-medicated, then 3 where I will have medication to make more eggs mature - then 1 IVF.
> It's all feeling a bit surreal. I've been really nervous one minute, excited another, then not very optimistic the next, but it's just great that we can even say we're trying. The FS was optimistic that we wouldn't take very long, so it's all down to chance really!
> XXX


----------



## sharon99

Bubumaci, our story is rather similar- at our last scan (14.5 weeks), the doctor said if he *had* to guess, he thought boy... so that is what I am thinking! But according to Dr. Google that was still a little early, as both boys & girls both have something sticking out then. Our scan is on Tuesday too, & I'm hoping we'll have a clearer answer!


----------



## Rainbow123

We'll probably be testing next Saturday, Danielle. 
Starting to wonder about whether AF would show when she usually does, as I was given Pregnyl to inject, which controlled the time of ovulation so she may come slightly later or she may come at usual time going to have to do a bit of research, I think!
XXX


----------



## bubumaci

Oooh, exciting Rainbow! ... by injecting to stimulate ovulation, you shouldn't be affecting the luteal phase - that ought to be the same length that you usually have (unless you are taking progesterone, which can delay AF coming). Basically, the corpus luteum (left behind where the ovum bursts out) starts producing progesterone, which thickens the uterine lining and - if pregnancy ensues - continues to support the pregnancy together with the yolk sac (until the placenta is developed and can take over). If the body starts producing HCG (because of pregnancy), it indicates to the corpus luteum to continue producing. But if there is no HCG, then the progesterone levels will sink (which is why BT goes down right before period comes) and the uterine lining breaks down. For this reason, the second half of our cycles (first phase = ovulatory, second phase = luteal), the luteal phase, is usually around the same length and if we have a longer cycle one cycle and a shorter one the next, it is usually because of variations in the ovulatory phase (i.e. ovulating earlier / later) and not in the luteal phase.
Does that help a bit? :) :)

Yay Sharon - we both get to see our little miracles on Tuesday! That's exciting :) Can't wait to hear your news :) :) (btw. don't you want to bring your status up to date *grin*). xx


----------



## Stinas

Sharon - They are usually right!! My tech "guessed"....and she was like "i am never wrong".....she was right and that was at 13w.


----------



## Rainbow123

:hugs: Thank you so much for your explanation Bubumaci! You are an absolute star! I find a lot of comfort in knowing the science behind things.  :hugs:


----------



## bubumaci

You're most welcome :) Glad I could help! :kiss: ... so just a few more days 'till testing :) :wohoo:


----------



## tulip11

hi

in our first stage of testing etc just one ultrasound is left which is transrectal prostate we got our appointment letter for this ultrasound but starnge thing it that its not one ultrasound they mentioned ultrasound of testes as well which was already done before and results shown testes are of normal size. so then why are they doing testes ultrasound again any rough guesses ? thanks


----------



## rdleela

Hmmmm, tulip, maybe they are just being thorough? Is it the exact same doc who is ordering it again?


----------



## Miraclbaby

Hello girls,
I m here because I need an advice. We had to cancel our mTese with Dr Schlegel because of my husbands business. We rescheduled for September 2014.
I have been researching about FNA Mapping for a while now. We had phone consultation with Dr. Turek yesterday. He is the best on this field.
Dr Schlegel gave us 50% chances for finding sperms. The cost for a mTESE and IVF are abou $40.000.
Dr Turek gave us 40% and the cost for mapping are around $5000 -$7000. If he finds something then we can go ahead and have a mTESE with IVF. But if he doesnt find anything, we would save the money for mTese and IVF.
Can somebody help me out with more information? Or maybe an advice from somebody?


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Miraclbaby - I'm sorry, I have never heard about FNA mapping ... how does that work?


----------



## Miraclbaby

https://theturekclinic.com/services...-count-male-doctors/sperm-mapping-testicular/

Its a procedure which locates the areas with sperms. The doctor uses fine needles for that. after he does that he takes the samples to his lab and studies each sample for the following two weeks. if he find something, he will tell us the exact location and we can use that for mTESE.


----------



## Mikihob

MiracleBaby I have never heard of FNA mapping either. The mTESE and the FNA mapping has pretty close success rates. If you do the mapping and he finds sperm you would continue with mTESE and IVF but if he doesn't find any are you moving onto donor??

Personally, if it were me, and I could afford the $5,000 FNA mapping and had all the information about it I would probably do it. Saving $40,000 is quite helpful in this infertility journey. Does the doctor give you any past history or research showing that it is really accurate? 

Sorry I didn't have any more information on FNA. Hopefully my thoughts can help you on your way to a decision. :hugs:


----------



## bubumaci

It does sound like the perfect approach then. If they do find something, then you have a really accurate location for the surgical procedure and if they don't then you could save DH having to go through it.
We wanted to have TESA done on DH, but the place he went to recommended having the TESE ... the results were devastating for us, because he underwent the surgery for nothing (they couldn't use the samples at all and told me this right before I went in for the egg retrieval). We were very lucky, that we had that one freak try two years ago, where they froze the sperm, and they used those for our ICSI (that brought us our miracle pregnancy)...

To me, even though it will cost quite a bit, it sounds like a sensible step to really get the best possible results! xx


----------



## Mikihob

Miraclbaby said:


> https://theturekclinic.com/services...-count-male-doctors/sperm-mapping-testicular/
> 
> Its a procedure which locates the areas with sperms. The doctor uses fine needles for that. after he does that he takes the samples to his lab and studies each sample for the following two weeks. if he find something, he will tell us the exact location and we can use that for mTESE.

Wow, that sounds amazing! Knowing where the sperm are will help the doctors avoid poking and prodding DH too much during his mTESE. It might even help him recover faster. I wonder why this isn't more available, most of us could have used FNA.


----------



## Miraclbaby

It is actually pretty helpful and minimal invasive. Dr Turek said that my husband could leave after 1 hour. I think I am upset because he gives us just 40% chances :-( I do not know if I should be hopeful with 40% .


----------



## tulip11

rdleela said:


> Hmmmm, tulip, maybe they are just being thorough? Is it the exact same doc who is ordering it again?

No the first one was urologist and now another Dr Who is looking at all fertility issues


----------



## babadespls

Hi Ladies, 

We have our 1st appointment at an IVF clinic on Tuesday, they advised us to get all medical records etc, so I asked my husbands Urologist for all info and he gave me a letter, in which he says that my husband has primary spermatogenic failure. I haven't heard this term before, is it just another way of saying Azoospermic? We've only ever done 1 SA (zero count), and all his tests were normal besides he has elevated FSH levels of 20. Am I giving myself false hope?? This term "primary spermatogenic failure" has really got me thinking negatively suddenly...

I have really been trying to be as positive as possible, and was very excited to get the ball rolling, as we have been living in limbo since January.


----------



## Mikihob

MiraclBaby I think 40% isn't terrible. IVF only has 60% success and IUI can be as low as 10% success. Even the mTESE only has 50% chance. At least with the FNA you can see if they can find pockets of sperm. If they don't, you still have the records of where they looked. If you decide to do the mTESE after that, have the doctor focus on different areas and see if you can't increase the success rate. 

I learned that in this fertility battle even a 5% success rate is worth it if I can learn something and move forward. It's hard, harder than anything I can think of, but if it will help, why not? Plus, I bet he has to say 40% due to some study where that was the average. Maybe some had higher success rates. 

babadespls that is great about your IVF appointment. I believe that Primary Spermatogenic Failure is azoospermia. Spermatogenesis is what the production of sperm is called. Primary Spermatogenic Failure means primary sperm production failure=Azoospermia. 

I am not a doctor or a pro on sperm at all but I think that's accurate. Can you ask your doctor to clarify? Maybe the FS can shed some light. I hope that I helped you feel a little better. :hugs:


----------



## Miraclbaby

mikihob thank you for your reply. Your are right. It is a average and maybe we have luck. My husband is absolutely sure about the mapping. He wants to do it. And its much cheaper then the mTESE. I think i m gonna be ok with it too. I didnt know that the fertility journey would be an emotional roller coaster :-(


----------



## babadespls

Miraclbaby said:


> mikihob thank you for your reply. Your are right. It is a average and maybe we have luck. My husband is absolutely sure about the mapping. He wants to do it. And its much cheaper then the mTESE. I think i m gonna be ok with it too. I didnt know that the fertility journey would be an emotional roller coaster :-(

I enquired about mapping, and if we lived in the states we would definitely give it a try. Their blog is very informative, and you can also have a free Skype chat with the doc himself. I would say go for it :)


----------



## Miraclbaby

babadespls we had a phone consultation with Dr turek. I know he is a great urologist but there is something that bothers me a little. When I talked to him it feels like he wants to sell us something...and thats my impression of his blog as well. He would comment something and then say: That s a perfect case for mapping. Book an appointment today! Here is my phone number ...
Plus I called his office today to ask for an appointment and the cost. Just the mapping is $5000 but them you have to pay office fee, facility fee and and and. It's actually 8k-10k...


----------



## Mikihob

MiraclBaby that seems odd to me too. It makes me nervous when I hear about something and then it gets followed by a purchase it now comment. It's like tv commercials or ads. "Check out our great new, lawnmower 2.0. It's top of the line and it cuts grass with the best of them. Come on down and buy one today." 

They have you pay separate office visit fees? You would think the procedure cost would include those. I agree it seems a little off. FNA Mapping sounds great, but you have to make sure he is doing this for you and not to line his pockets. 

I am so sorry that you lost some of your confidence in this procedure. :hugs: Is there a way to get a second opinion or anything?


----------



## bubumaci

Hmmm, it does sound like advertising, doesn't it...
But the fact that there are fees on top seems pretty normal to me. If I think of the procedures I had, the cost of the procedure (whether it was ER + ICSI or FET) was a separate fee to the doctor's visits prior to and post procedure...

Maybe you can get some feedback from people who have had the procedure done? :hugs2:


----------



## babadespls

Miraclbaby said:


> babadespls we had a phone consultation with Dr turek. I know he is a great urologist but there is something that bothers me a little. When I talked to him it feels like he wants to sell us something...and thats my impression of his blog as well. He would comment something and then say: That s a perfect case for mapping. Book an appointment today! Here is my phone number ...
> Plus I called his office today to ask for an appointment and the cost. Just the mapping is $5000 but them you have to pay office fee, facility fee and and and. It's actually 8k-10k...

I actually never got to that point of calling or having the chat as when I worked it out with the conversion of our rand to the dollar plus travel it was crazy expensive. 

I googled reviews and this came up... 

https://www.yelp.com/biz/paul-turek-md-facs-san-francisco


----------



## Miraclbaby

I checked so many hundreds of websites...at the end I just sent an email to Dr Schlegel. He is absolutely against it. The needles that are used for mapping will cause severe damage to the tissue in the testis. He said if that's the case the chance for a successful mTese will be zero. 
My husband actually doesn't care about the money. He wanted the minimal invasive way. We talked openly about both procedures and we decided to go to Schlegel. I like how decent and polite Schlegel is. It gives me more comfort.


----------



## MBABY2014

Miracle- Schlegal is one of the best! So is Cornell!
I think your making the right decesion!!


----------



## Miraclbaby

MBABY2014 said:


> Miracle- Schlegal is one of the best! So is Cornell!
> I think your making the right decesion!!

Thanks Mbaby. I feel good with this decision:flower:


----------



## Rainbow123

I'm so glad you've made a decision that you're happy with Miraclbaby. 
XXX


----------



## bubumaci

And she has a ticker now too :wohoo: ... you haven't announced your betas (or did I miss it somewhere), only saw that you had your BFP ... <3 :hugs2:


----------



## Mikihob

Rainbow I can't get over how excited I am for you!! Have you had beta's yet?? Super curious!! 

I also had a dream about you. I dreamt that you had quintuplets. I totally saw myself congratulating you for having five babies. Is that weird?? :shrug: :haha:


----------



## babadespls

Congrats Rainbow, that's great news, I love to see BFP's here! 

Tomorrow morning my husband and I have our 1st official appointment at an IVF Clinic with a FS that specialises is MFI. I am so excited / nervous, so happy that we are taking a step forward, Yay!


----------



## Rainbow123

Thank you lovely ladies! :hugs: It all feels so surreal but totally and utterly magical! I just can't believe how lucky we have been to get pregnant, after the journey we've taken. 
I've got to wait until the 12th June to go in and see my FS where she will be doing a scan to check everything is ok. I've not been asked to go in for blood tests, but I think that's just the way they do things here! I think it will be easier to believe that I'm actually pregnant once I've had a scan and been able to see my little poppy seed. 
Lots of love to all you lovely ladies, I don't know how I would have got here without you all! :hugs:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## Rainbow123

Oh, and Miki - just before I came downstairs and read your post, I'd just been joking to DH about how it could be quintuplets so you dreamt it and then I joked about it my FS had better not tell me there are 5 in there! Ut oh! Hahaha! What a funny coincidence!
XXX


----------



## bubumaci

9 more days Rainbow and you get to see your poppyseed :) I so get you not being able to believe it (heck, I'm in my 19th week, feeling the occasional *taps* from inside, and still can't entirely believe it *lol*). I look forward to hearing all about your scan next week :) :hugs2:


----------



## Rainbow123

Thanks Bubumaci! :hugs:

Babadespis - good luck tomorrow! I hope you are able to get lots of information from your doctor. It is so nerve wracking though isn't it? I used to shake with nerves when we were waiting to talk to the urologist about DH. Let us know how you get on. XXX


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## deafgal01

congrats rainbow!


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## MoBaby

congrats rainbow!!!!!!


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## Miraclbaby

congratulation rainbow. i m happy for you.


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## Olive333

Congratulations Rainbow - very happy for you.


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## MBABY2014

OMG RAINBOW!! How wonderful! I am so very excited for you!! Stay positive and stress free while you wait for your U/S ;)


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## MBABY2014

Mo- how you feeling as a new mama??

Rdella- getting close!! How are you?


----------



## tulip11

Congratulations Rainbow I am so happy for you . Have a H&H 9 months.


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## babadespls

Rainbow123 said:


> Thanks Bubumaci! :hugs:
> 
> Babadespis - good luck tomorrow! I hope you are able to get lots of information from your doctor. It is so nerve wracking though isn't it? I used to shake with nerves when we were waiting to talk to the urologist about DH. Let us know how you get on. XXX

It wasn't exactly a life changing, He just told me everything that I already know. (Thanks to Professor Google) :rofl: but we have a plan of action which is good I suppose, Another SA next week, then if that's negative they will do a sperm extraction the following week, and then my journey will either begin or end abruptly along with my baby hopes, as my husband is dead against DS. I guess my new outlook is hope for the best and expect the worst? 

I was very down after the appointment, I never went back to work, went home and drank wine, ate chocolate and cried a lot, but today I have my big girl pants back on.


----------



## bubumaci

Hmmm - I am sorry that you were feeling so down! This journey is so full of ups and downs, it is the craziest roller coaster!! My DH was also totally against DS (in the end it did work with his), but was starting to consider it, because he knew how much I wanted to be a Mother and realised that genetics isn't everything ... I am very much hoping that the extraction is a huge success!! But if not, maybe he will just need some time ... :hugs2:


----------



## tulip11

Hi everyone 

My hubby prostate ultrasound is coming so what we were told that they will look for vas deferens tube my question is apart from looking for this tube is there any possibility of obstructions which could be found in this ultrasound?


----------



## bubumaci

Sorry Tulip, I have no idea :( Fx'd for his ultrasound!


----------



## rdleela

tulip11 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> My hubby prostate ultrasound is coming so what we were told that they will look for vas deferens tube my question is apart from looking for this tube is there any possibility of obstructions which could be found in this ultrasound?

Tulip, my hubby had all the ultrasounds, none of them showing an obstruction, yet he had lots if scarring as an obstruction, so even if the scans come back clean, the only way to really know if he's producing sperm but they aren't coming out is a biopsy or one of those other extraction surgeries. Once my hubby's biopsy came back with healthy sperm, his surgeon THEN opened him up (to do a repair surgery) and found all the scarring that didn't show up on ultrasounds.

Best of luck with the scan...


----------



## Rainbow123

Wow babadespls, that's really quick for the sperm extraction! I'm glad you don't have to wait too long.
We found out about DH's azoo in January 2013, and DH was VERY against DS for a considerable amount of time. I think it was in about the October-ish that I started seeing signs of him coming to terms with the idea, by January 2014 he was very matter-of-fact that if we didn't find sperm we would use DS, then after we had the mTESE (no sperm found) in April 2014, he still needed a couple more weeks to get his head round it. I think a lot of our husbands just need time to come to terms with the reality of the situation. I was just talking to DH about your situation and he said that it's a bit like trying to get through a door that's the size of a pin head, but rather than focusing on the door it should be at what's behind it. He's now realised that the conception part is a really small part of fatherhood, and that it's all the stuff that starts when the baby's born, that is the most important part of being a dad. He said that he does have to keep reminding himself of that, because sometimes it still hurts, but I suppose he is still waiting for that part to come - when our baby is born. 
I hope you are able to find some spermies babadespis, but it you don't I'm sure your DH will come round to the idea, he may just need time to accept it. When we found out there were no sperms, after the mTESE, it was a grieving process that both DH and I went through, because it felt like our future had been stolen away from us. Now I don't even think about it, and when I do it just makes me so happy to know that we had this option, and that right now our teeny tiny baby is growing inside of me and that we will both love and cherish it so so much. 
Good luck and let us know how it goes. If you ever need anyone to talk to, please feel free to PM me.
Lots of love :hugs: XXXXXXXX


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## bubumaci

Perfectly and beautifully put, Rainbow! :kiss:


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## snd80

Congrats Rainbow!!!!! :happydance: And wonderfully put about the ds situation.... my hubby was not on board at first, and now that we are here and putting together baby beds and painting, etc. you'd never even know these babies aren't his biologically!!! He is on :cloud9: and that just makes my day!!!

:hugs: to all!!!!!


----------



## Rainbow123

What an exciting time snd80, that's so lovely to hear. When are you due? XXX


----------



## gem10

Congratulations Rainbow! I am so happy for you!!! Bab, good luck with everthing. I will keep you in my prayers that they find some swimmers!


----------



## babadespls

Thank you all so much for your words of encouragement, I really do appreciate it, love watching all the tickers with apple seeds and sweet potato's, its too sweet!


----------



## snd80

Thank you Rainbow! I am "officially" due Oct 16, but they not gonna let me go past the very end of Sept (38 weeks) _IF_ I make it that far!!!! They are HUGE already and kicking my butt!!!! :haha: They already almost a pound each and I'm only 21 weeks today!!! 

Good luck babadespls! Fingers crossed for you!!!


----------



## Mikihob

snd80 my birthday is September 9 and my DH's is September 27, we wouldn't mine sharing our birthdays with your sweet little boys. 

They are already 1lb! Wow, they are sure growing fast. How exciting! :thumbup:


----------



## sharon99

Babadespis- I'm sorry you had such a rough appointment and have been feeling so down. I was just thinking last night about how I used to totally lose it at every single doctor appointment we had. I think I cried more over those months than I have the rest of my life put together. I really hope the next SA goes well.

Rainbow, I am so SO thrilled for you!!! Big congratulations and much happiness to you! And thank you for the beautiful words about DS. 

Snd- I didn't know we were due at the same time!! October 10 for me- although sounds like you will be meeting your babies earlier!

Bubumaci- did you get a definitive "girl" answer at your ultrasound??

Ours was clear as day this time-- boy!!! And he is looking healthy and everything progressing well at the 20-week anatomy scan. Whew. Rainbow, again I'm really glad you posted your feelings about DS, because that's exactly how I've been feeling recently. It feels like such a miracle to *actually* have a baby inside me, that all (or nearly all) of my donor sperm fears just don't seem all that important. If I was worried about DH bonding I shouldn't have... he talks to my belly all the time, and is already plotting ways the two of them will team up against me. 

Hi to everyone else! xoxo


----------



## Rainbow123

How exciting snd80! That's really not long at all then! Sounds like your little boys are developing beautifully. What a joy it will be for you to have two little ones after this journey. :hugs:

Awwww how lovely Sharon - a little boy! Cute cute cute! I'm so pleased you are having such a positive pregnancy. It's so good to be able to share our thoughts on here, it is such an invaluable forum. That's so lovely how your DH is talking to your bump! Hehe! XXXXX


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## bubumaci

Hi girls :wave:

Well, we have a definite answer ... and that is, that Baby P. definitely has a little "P" *lol*. No denying it, was very clear to see :) And he was very active (which I already knew beforehand, because I could feel him), looking great, developing and growing beautifully... So I am looking forward to the anatomy scan week after next on Wednesday (21st week) :dance: :cloud9: Now we just have to totally rethink the names *lol*

Sharon - that's great that you had such a good scan! Such an exciting time :)
 



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## Rainbow123

Gorgeous scan pictures Bubu! Your pregnancy seems to be flying by, your little boy will be here before we know it! XXX


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## bubumaci

It is, it is going so quickly! I can't believe I'm almost halfway there! <3


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## tulip11

Mikihob said:


> snd80 my birthday is September 9 and my DH's is September 27, we wouldn't mine sharing our birthdays with your sweet little boys.
> 
> They are already 1lb! Wow, they are sure growing fast. How exciting! :thumbup:

And my hubby birthday is 9th September and mine is 10th September :haha:


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## bubumaci

My Grandma's birthday is September 8th (she will be 102 years old this year!). And I have a niece who was born on September 9th... a few more in there (two good friends on the 10th, cousin on the 30th, FIL on the 25th...) :)


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## snd80

Gol lee!!! It is the year of the BOY!!! I'm telling you!!! All us azoo girls and then everyone I know localy that is pg is having boys!!!! :haha: But you know the batch of azoo girls before us all had girls!!! Deb, PinkLolly, and a few others...

Sorry bubu... I jinxed you!!!! Like I jinxed myself!!! Calling for a girl WAY too early!!! At least you didn't cry like I did!!! :rofl: I was so shamed afterwards!!! Crying like a spoiled little brat! My hubby thought it was hilarious!!! :blush:

And MY birthday is Sept 9!!!! :dohh: My sister's is Sept 27 and her daughters is the 28th. Docs are thinking around the 28th/29th, although I think it could be sooner. Us Septembers' are good peoples!!!! :winkwink:


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## MBABY2014

I totally think I am having a BOY!

But technically, I'm having a 2015 baby- EDD is Jan 7!!


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## Rainbow123

Maybe 2015 azoo babies will be girls then? I also think I might be having a boy, but I really don't mind either way, as long as they are healthy!
X


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## rdleela

My azoos baby is a girl and due in August, so I spoil the boy train!


----------



## Mikihob

snd80 said:


> And MY birthday is Sept 9!!!! :dohh: My sister's is Sept 27 and her daughters is the 28th. Docs are thinking around the 28th/29th, although I think it could be sooner. Us Septembers' are good peoples!!!! :winkwink:

Oh my gosh we share our birthdays!! DH's is the 27th and his sister's is the 28th. If yours comes the 29th we could almost fill the month with this thread alone. :hugs:

Isn't the ratio supposed to be like 3:1? Every 3 girls that are born, 1 boy will be born. I think us azoo ladies are setting a new trend. :thumbup: Both DH and our donor make girls. I will have a baby at some point in 2015 and it will probably be a girl. We can start the girl trend in 2015.


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## Miraclbaby

my anniversary is on September 9 




tulip11 said:


> Mikihob said:
> 
> 
> snd80 my birthday is September 9 and my DH's is September 27, we wouldn't mine sharing our birthdays with your sweet little boys.
> 
> They are already 1lb! Wow, they are sure growing fast. How exciting! :thumbup:
> 
> And my hubby birthday is 9th September and mine is 10th September :haha:Click to expand...


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## gem10

Congrats Bub! Your little guy looks just perfect! I can only imagine the joy you must be feeling. You have been through so much and deserve every bit of happiness!


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## tulip11

Miraclbaby said:


> my anniversary is on September 9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mikihob said:
> 
> 
> snd80 my birthday is September 9 and my DH's is September 27, we wouldn't mine sharing our birthdays with your sweet little boys.
> 
> They are already 1lb! Wow, they are sure growing fast. How exciting! :thumbup:
> 
> And my hubby birthday is 9th September and mine is 10th September :haha:Click to expand...Click to expand...

And my wedding anniversary is September 17 :p


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## snd80

Told you Septembers' are good peoples!!!! =)


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## MBABY2014

How is everyone doing?

Quiet on this board???


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## Miraclbaby

hey :flower: I m just trying to keep myself busy. We scheduled our mTese for September. I know its just 3 months to wait but it seems like 3 years...



MBABY2014 said:


> How is everyone doing?
> 
> Quiet on this board???


----------



## babadespls

Hi all, board has been very quiet, My husband did his SA yesterday so I'm guarding my phone but its just not ringing. I phoned them and they said the doc will call me when he has my file with all the results. I just hope its today or else I will have to wait till next week.

I don't know why I am so nervous because I'm pretty sure that I know what they results will be. Maybe by some miraculous chance there will be something in there.

Positive thoughts Positive thoughts 

Hope all you ladies are well and have a great weekend


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## gem10

Bab, fingers crossed for you! Waiting is sometimes the worst part.

Miraclbaby, I am with you, just trying to stay busy and "live life" so to speak.


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## babadespls

Just got the call, No sperm found in the SA...No huge surprise but still disappointed.

I am a little concerned as they proposed doing a PESA and TESA next week, and I always hear you ladies talking about mTese?? I have also got the idea in my head that they use this technique (PESA & TESA) for obstructive azoo (I may be wrong), whereby we have NOA.


----------



## gem10

I am soooo sorry sweety. My husband has NOA and we have done one mTESE and one TESE. Each time they found just enough sperm to fertilize my eggs, so between 10-20. So its not a lot, but it has given us a chance to try IVF. Unfortunately we havent had success yet though.

His sperm count is ALWAYS zero, even after months of meds.


----------



## arzoo

Sorry to hear about the no sperms. 

My DH's SA always came back as zero. But we got lucky when we did the microtese. 

Good luck


----------



## bubumaci

So sorry to hear about your results :(
PESA and TESA are less invasive methods of trying to get sperm from the testicles. Our fertility doctor suggested it for us, but the urologists who were to do the operation wanted to do the TESE ... (which was a negative too). DH has NOA as well - so perhaps PESA / TESA are options for you? :hugs2:


----------



## Mikihob

I am so sorry Babs. I know how that feels. We got our final ZERO result last month. I hope the the PESA or TESA can get some spermies for you. 

Update ladies. Today I am 14dpIUI and I got a BFN. I expected it because of the last of OPK's but it's still hard. Hopefully next month is our month. 

Hope everyone is doing well. I think about you all every day. Waiting is the worst thing EVER. I wonder, if we use all of our patience waiting to get pregnant, will we have any left??!! :rofl:


----------



## bubumaci

Oh, Miki, I'm sorry you go a BFN :( If I remember correctly, you will be having a much more closely monitored cycle next time around, to ensure that you do ovulate. I think that is important, because doing a scheduled IUI without having guaranteed ovulation seems like a bit of a waste to me ... So all fingers and toes crossed for you Sweetie! :hugs2:

... I hope patience is like love - you have an abundant amount of it ... :kiss:


----------



## snd80

So sorry Miki!!!! Your time *WILL* come though!!!! I learned it's just not always when _WE_ want it..... took us 12 *long* hard years to get here!!! :hugs:

Sorry as well babadespls. :hugs: Azoo is such a shitty journey and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!!!

Hope everyone else is doing well in their waits, etc. :hugs: to all!!!


----------



## rdleela

Babs, so sorry about the zero SA...even though we expect it, it still stings - a slap in the face reminder...I have no advice on the procedures, I'm sorry...

miki, I'm sooooo sorry it was a BFN for you...you just gotta keep trying, though!!! Hugs!


----------



## Rainbow123

Oh Miki! So sorry to hear about your BFN. Like Bubumaci says, with a closely monitored cycle next month you have a really good chance of getting pregnant. Sending you lots of hugs :hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

That is a bummer but I am not going to raise your hopes and say a closely monitored cycle will give you a bfp because you could still get bfn either way but I definitely think you are one cycle closer to that bfp you have been waiting for.

I am not saying the above to be harsh. I am saying it because I have had a closely monitored cycle and still got bfn from it. I do wish someone had been tactful enough to tell me not to get my hopes up too high cuz there is so many factors in getting that bfp. One could very well have a perfect cycle and not get bfp or not a perfect cycle and get bfp against all odds.

Think I will shut up and take my leave now. I do hope the next cycle is it for you miki.


----------



## Olive333

Unfortunately, infertility brings uncertainty every single cycle. Like deafgal stated not even perfectly monitored cycles end up in a BFP. I had two perfectly monitored cycles with three good size follicles with trigger and still got a BFN both times. I also went into thinking that it would work right away since most of the women I had read got their BFP either on their first try or on their second with DIUI. I have been on a break since I can't think of going through a negative after a negative. There is nothing wrong with me, I ovulate on my own and did medicated cycles to up my chances.

Sometimes when women have been successful, they can&#8217;t help but to encourage other women to continue since it worked for them. Let&#8217;s remember that fertility treatments don&#8217;t work for everyone no matter how many times they try. For some is the lack of funding and for others it just doesn&#8217;t happen even after IVF after IVF. No one wants to think that if you try and try it still won&#8217;t happen. I know I haven&#8217;t tried many times and I eventually will try again in the near future, but I have to keep in mind that it is a good possibility that it might not work for us.

I&#8217;m praying that one day we will also be in the blessed group of being pregnant and a mommy :)&#61514;


----------



## bubumaci

Hmmm - DG and Olive - it sounds like you are saying that when we (myself included) were suggesting monitoring more closely, that it meant I automatically was saying that it would mean success. All of my cycles, transfers etc. were monitored (had to be ICSI with fresh transfers + FETs after ICSI - cycle after cycle, with repeated BFNs) - so I know that it doesn't necessarily mean a BFP ...
My point was only, that by monitoring when you do the IUI, you are going to be upping the chances of success (for example, to me, it seems pointless doing the IUI if ovulation hasn't been guaranteed or might not even have taken place - I never did an IUI, but I am sure that it involves spending money on the procedure ...)... and I see no harm in trying to increase the chances of something working.

There is never a guarantee with TTC. Neither for people able to conceive naturally, nor for those going through AI - in whichever shape or form it may happen. I too believed that first or second try would work for us ... and you know how many it ultimately took (and even now, I am in disbelief regarding my little miracle)...

And with each try we went through, there were people on my group saying "this is it, this will be it, this has to be it" and I did get tired of hearing it, because I stopped believing it ... just couldn't give up (but also said, that I couldn't hear it any more).

What I do believe in, is trying to do what we can to increase our chances and personally, I firmly believe that monitoring whether or not ovulation takes place _is_ important, to make sure that there is something there for the sperm to try to fertilise. Whether or not that then results in an embryo that nestles in ... that is a huge portion of luck, fate and everything else that gets thrown our way ... IMHO.

:hugs: all around.


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Hey ladies, 

Hubby and I are about to embark on our last ever chance of making biological embryos. Two successful mtese but no bfp yet...perhaps third time lucky. 

Both of us are already getting our thoughts around to using ds. Its a hard thing for me to move on to this. Biggest fear is rejection from the child when they grow up. Did any of u using ds feel this and what did u do to overcome it? What if they like the donor better than us when they finally meet? :(

I go in for a lining scrape on friday and then start the cycle whenever af comes after that. Its been a loonngg time waiting and im sick of it. I just want our babies already.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi girls. I'm a old member here. My husband passed away suddenly last Feb, the night after our egg retrieval. I am so excited to see some members here that are now pregnant after being through such a tough journey.

I have 9 frozen embryos and am going to attempt a FET. I've been building my lining and have the transfer booked for a week from today. I'm really scared, but know I need to give one of those blasts a chance.

I just couldn't come back to BnB tonight and not peek in on you guys. Thinking of the hell Chris and I went through with the azoo brings back a lot of emotions, but it did bring us closer together, which in a backwards way makes me thankful.


----------



## MoBaby

Hi canadianmaple! Great to see you! I know your last several months have been awful. Glad to see you will do a fet. That is fantastic! Your husband will be looking down on you and those embabies :) can't wait to see your bfp! Fx for you.


----------



## gem10

Hi Canadianmaple,

Your story gave me goosebumps. I am so sorry for your loss. I give you so much credit for pushing forward with the FET and pray that God brings you your miracle baby. Fingers and toes crossed, and I will keep you in my prayers!


----------



## rdleela

Canadianmaple!!! I missed you, girl! So happy to hear from you! I can't imagine how hard things must have been for you, and I'm so excited to hear you are going ahead with a FET! You just made me cry! I hope you stay in touch and I'm wishing you ALL the very best! Xoxo


----------



## bubumaci

Canadianmaple :hugs::howdy:
I can't imagine what you must have been through / are going through - I am desperately sorry for your loss! I think it is wonderful that you are going ahead with your FET and I will keep fingers and toes crossed for you!!! :kiss: You have a very loving angel looking down on you!!! :hugs2:


----------



## snd80

OMG CM!!!! We've missed you!!! I'm so sorry for everything that has happened but am really excited you are pressing on!!!! Chris is watching over you and I *KNOW* he's gonna make sure you have ya'lls dream baby!!!! :hugs: and please keep us updated!!!!!

:hugs:, :hugs:, and more :hugs:!!!!!


----------



## tulip11

Update :
Just got back from my husband scrotal prostate testies internal detail ultrasound. They found no obstruction everything is normal. He had testies ultrasound before as well according to that testies size is normal but today in ultrasound they found that left testie is sslightly smaller than normal while right is of Normal size.. as I mentioned earlier hubby fsh is 13.2 . Everything is normal apart from higher fsh and slightly smaller left testicle. I am completely hopeless now I was thinking if there could be any obstruction find out that would be much great but now almost everything is normal then what could be the reason?


----------



## deafgal01

No idea, tulip. You got more info on your man's things than I did.


----------



## Rainbow123

Unfortunately Tulip it seems that sometimes azoospermia has no explanation. My DH is the same as yours - no visible obstruction, slightly elevated FSH and smaller than usual testicles. Sadly, despite having complete investigations into it, we just had to live with the fact that we won't ever know what caused it. What are your next steps?

Hopeful - With regards to DS, a lot of professionals recommend you to be as open as possible with the child about where they came from. This way, they grow up never knowing any different, and will know you've always been honest with them, so there shouldn't be issues regarding rejection. We've told our immediate families, so that when they are old enough to talk about these sorts of things, our families can respond in a positive way, and will hopefully reinforce just how wonderful and special they are.
It's not the easiest decision to make, but once we made it it all gradually just fell into place in my head and it feels normal to me now, too! 
X


----------



## Rainbow123

Btw, for my part I think it is important to try and think positively. Happy hormones are the best medicine in my book! I think azoospermia is such a shitty situation to be in, that even having a 15-25% chance each cycle (as you have with DIUI) it is a massive increase in chances compared to 0%, so I personally consider that a good chance, however that is only my opinion!
Coming on this thread and having such positive support really helped me through my darkest days. Thank you so much to all you lovely ladies who helped me get to where I am today without having a nervous breakdown! 
XXX


----------



## Rainbow123

Good luck with your FET Canadianmaple! :hugs: XXX


----------



## tulip11

Rainbow123 said:


> Unfortunately Tulip it seems that sometimes azoospermia has no explanation. My DH is the same as yours - no visible obstruction, slightly elevated FSH and smaller than usual testicles. Sadly, despite having complete investigations into it, we just had to live with the fact that we won't ever know what caused it. What are your next steps?
> 
> Hopeful - With regards to DS, a lot of professionals recommend you to be as open as possible with the child about where they came from. This way, they grow up never knowing any different, and will know you've always been honest with them, so there shouldn't be issues regarding rejection. We've told our immediate families, so that when they are old enough to talk about these sorts of things, our families can respond in a positive way, and will hopefully reinforce just how wonderful and special they are.
> It's not the easiest decision to make, but once we made it it all gradually just fell into place in my head and it feels normal to me now, too!
> X

thanks. They told us that after this they will refer us to fertility unit . I am completely down.


----------



## Rainbow123

Oh Tulip, I'm sorry you are feeling so down. I hope you don't have to wait too long until your fertility unit appointment comes through. Did they give you any idea about how long it would be? :hugs:
XXX


----------



## babadespls

tulip11 said:


> Update :
> Just got back from my husband scrotal prostate testies internal detail ultrasound. They found no obstruction everything is normal. He had testies ultrasound before as well according to that testies size is normal but today in ultrasound they found that left testie is sslightly smaller than normal while right is of Normal size.. as I mentioned earlier hubby fsh is 13.2 . Everything is normal apart from higher fsh and slightly smaller left testicle. I am completely hopeless now I was thinking if there could be any obstruction find out that would be much great but now almost everything is normal then what could be the reason?

Hi Tulip, 

My husband has the same as yours, elevated FSH (20.8) slightly smaller testies, everything else is normal. As far as I understand if there is an obstruction FSH wouldn't be elevated, as it gets elevated because there is little or no sperm production :sad2: Its so frustrating and I too am feeling flat, but I have read about successful sperm retrievals even with elevated FSH levels, so I'm holding onto that!

When I'm down I read this ladies success story and it keeps me a little more positive for a while.

https://www.ivfworld.com/topic.php?id=117982

:hugs::hugs::hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Rainbow123 said:


> Oh Tulip, I'm sorry you are feeling so down. I hope you don't have to wait too long until your fertility unit appointment comes through. Did they give you any idea about how long it would be? :hugs:
> XXX

Nope they didn't tell us anything . but yes our current dr once said that once you are done up with all tests then we will send you both to fertility clinic in Sheffield but i am thinking that when there is no sperm in sample till now so how they could send us both for fertility treatment ? thanks for your support this means alot to me . congratulations I saw your sticker have H&H 9 months.:hugs:


----------



## tulip11

babadespls said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> Update :
> Just got back from my husband scrotal prostate testies internal detail ultrasound. They found no obstruction everything is normal. He had testies ultrasound before as well according to that testies size is normal but today in ultrasound they found that left testie is sslightly smaller than normal while right is of Normal size.. as I mentioned earlier hubby fsh is 13.2 . Everything is normal apart from higher fsh and slightly smaller left testicle. I am completely hopeless now I was thinking if there could be any obstruction find out that would be much great but now almost everything is normal then what could be the reason?
> 
> Hi Tulip,
> 
> My husband has the same as yours, elevated FSH (20.8) slightly smaller testies, everything else is normal. As far as I understand if there is an obstruction FSH wouldn't be elevated, as it gets elevated because there is little or no sperm production :sad2: Its so frustrating and I too am feeling flat, but I have read about successful sperm retrievals even with elevated FSH levels, so I'm holding onto that!
> 
> When I'm down I read this ladies success story and it keeps me a little more positive for a while.
> 
> https://www.ivfworld.com/topic.php?id=117982
> 
> :hugs::hugs::hugs:Click to expand...

Hi
We both are in similar boats. its extremly hard journey for all of us.. hope to get some fruit at end. wish you lots of best wishes and success. thanks.:hugs:


----------



## Rainbow123

When you go to the fertility clinic they will probably talk to you about a sperm retrieval for your DH, and hopefully be able to give you an idea about success rates for finding sperm. They will want to check you over too, using blood tests and a test to check your tubes function normally. This will help them to make the best suggestions for your treatment. I hope it doesn't take too long for your appointment letter to come through. It's rubbish when you live your life each day just wishing to see that little brown envelope waiting on the mat when you get home from work. XXXXXX


----------



## tulip11

Rainbow123 said:


> When you go to the fertility clinic they will probably talk to you about a sperm retrieval for your DH, and hopefully be able to give you an idea about success rates for finding sperm. They will want to check you over too, using blood tests and a test to check your tubes function normally. This will help them to make the best suggestions for your treatment. I hope it doesn't take too long for your appointment letter to come through. It's rubbish when you live your life each day just wishing to see that little brown envelope waiting on the mat when you get home from work. XXXXXX

yes thats exactly what i think hun. yes so true and specially when everyone around you gets pregnant so easily and even though whenever i go out for shopping those lil new born clothes makes me cry :cry::cry: and yeah waiting for next appointment is quite hard as well .


----------



## Miraclbaby

tulip11 said:


> Update :
> Just got back from my husband scrotal prostate testies internal detail ultrasound. They found no obstruction everything is normal. He had testies ultrasound before as well according to that testies size is normal but today in ultrasound they found that left testie is sslightly smaller than normal while right is of Normal size.. as I mentioned earlier hubby fsh is 13.2 . Everything is normal apart from higher fsh and slightly smaller left testicle. I am completely hopeless now I was thinking if there could be any obstruction find out that would be much great but now almost everything is normal then what could be the reason?

I m Sorry for you tulip:hugs: A smaller left testis can be a side effect of varicocele on the left side. But you just came from ultrasound and they would see it. My husband had it he got it removed. The size of his testis changed. BUT still no sperm. Just waiting for our mTESE now...Sometimes there is no explanation...but hopefully a fertility can explain more to you.


----------



## tulip11

Hi 

I have a question which couples needs IVF and which couples needs ICSI or IUI? I have a lot of confusion regarding this .


----------



## rdleela

ICSI with IVF is needed with a really low sperm count, or in azoospermia cases with only a few sperm. It's because they literally inject one sperm into one egg to create an embryo in a petri dish.

With IVF without ICSI, the man has a high sperm count, and they "wash" the sperm and put a ton of sperm in each petri dish with the egg, and let the sperm naturally penetrate the egg and fertilize.

IUI is only good for a high sperm count, because they "wash" the sperm, and inject the sperm into the women with the hopes of the sperm finding the egg in the fallopian tubes. So this can be done with donor sperm because donor sperm usually has a high sperm count.


----------



## bubumaci

ICSI will also be used (as opposed to IVF) where the motility of the sperm is poor - i.e. can't swim to and penetrate to the ovum by itself.

Another situation in which IUI may be used, is when the sperm of the man is healthy (and plentiful) and the woman's ovulation is controlled (maybe usually, the woman has issues with ovulation and the follicle growth and ovulation are supported medically). Also, many clinics will try IUI before moving forward with IVF where there is no explanation for pregnancy not occurring naturally - just to give the sperm a better "chance" - when that doesn't work (and there are no indications that ICSI is necessary because of male fertility issues), then they will move on to IVF ...


----------



## tulip11

Hi I just wanna to know what's the majority on this forum in successful cases singleton, twins or triplets?


----------



## sharon99

Just popping in to say hello, and that I think of everyone here often and am hoping for your successes.

Miki, I'm so sorry about the BFN. Ughh. And it takes so much coordination on your end with your clinic, etc. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your next effort.

Babadespls, sorry about the SA results. I really don't have any words- it's heartbreaking & devastating. I hope your next appointments give you *some* hint about moving forward.

Canadian Maple- good luck with the FET- please let us know how it turns out. 

Hopeful Cat- moving on to DS was one of (the most?) difficult decisions I've ever had to make. I am much more comfortable with it now. Rejection or anger from the kid is something I feared too... and may very well be something we have to deal with in the future. It sounds like you would be open with a future child (that's what we're planning, too), and I read somewhere that DS-conceived kids can possibly feel *more* connected to their dads, because they've shared something personal and have open lines of communication. That is just the way we're planning on handling it, though- every family is different. We're planning on getting some kids' books on different kinds of families to help facilitate the early talking process. DS is not the easiest road, and I worry sometimes that he'll face questions or confusion in the future. All I can really hope to do is give him all the love & support I can and hope for the best... and I think that's true of all parents, no matter how they conceived their kids.

Oh, and Tulip- I'm not sure what the consensus would be- but I think multiples are far more likely with IVF or medicated IUIs. We did an unmedicated IUI and have a singleton.

Hugs to everyone else, wherever you are in your journeys!


----------



## tulip11

I searched online so what I found that one small testicle is sign of varicocele. My husband left testicle is slightly smaller than normal size while right one is of normal size. Fsh is 13.2. If it comes out to be varicocele so is there any treatment for that and then does it give any hope that after treatment there is some chances of sperms to be present in samples?


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Tulip,
I am not really sure, what the statistics are - I know of three of us who have husbands with Azoo - of us, two are singletons and one is twins (with DH's sperm). From the IVF group I am on (since May 2012), I think it was fairly evenly spread between twins and singletons - I would have to check the "database" ;)

I can't really say anything about varicocele, as I have absolutely no experience with it whatsoever, but my fingers and toes are crossed that someone can help and that any treatment is successful!!! xxx


----------



## MBABY2014

Bub- not sure if you included me on the 3-
But I have a singleton on the way with hubby's sperm from a TESE.
We did ivf with icsi and put 2 back in- 1 stuck!

Good luck!

Today's a bit of a mike stone for me! 12 weeks! Just waiting for the resukrs of my NT to go public!


----------



## Rainbow123

Eeek happy 12 weeks Mbaby! That must be such a relief! Have fun sharing your news!  XXX


----------



## bubumaci

No, Mbaby, I didn't ... I am sorry ... so we have three singletons and one set of twins that I know of ...
Congratulations on 12 weeks :wohoo: ... look forward to hearing your results :) :hugs:

Tulip - I scanned the results in the IVF-Forum and there it was about 3x as many singletons as twins ...


----------



## MBABY2014

Thanks Ladies!! 
Here is a picture from Monday's scan... I'm in love!!!&#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;&#128538;

How is everyone else doing? Anyone cycling soon? Id love to hear some updates to cheer my fellow Azzo ladies on!


----------



## bubumaci

So, so beautiful!! <3 :kiss: Little One :)


----------



## arzoo

One more to add on. I have twins on the way from hubby's sperm through microtese. 

Sorry I have not posted on a while. I have been closely following all the discussions. Had a few tense weeks as I had haematoma but things have settled now. I am finally starting to relax and stop worrying. 
Good luck and loads of hugs.


----------



## Stinas

Canadian - Its nice to see you again!!! I wish you the best of luck!! :hugs: 

Tulip - Im sorry you are feeling down! Azoo is a longgggg process unfortunately....I hope you get more answers at the FS!
I am one of the successful twin pregnancies with DH's sperm, via ICSI from TESE. Don't lose hope...it takes a bunch of tries sometimes!

MBABY - :happydance::happydance:

Arzoo - OMG YAY! :happydance::happydance: Twinkies are the best! Lots of work, but you will love it!


----------



## MBABY2014

Arzo! Congrats!! When are you due?


----------



## bubumaci

Arzoo!!! OMG, congratulations! I am sorry you had a scare, over the moon for you and glad that you are settling into it now! How are you feeling? :wohoo::kiss:


----------



## arzoo

Thank you MBaby and bubumaci. I am due in December but as it's twins it could be November as well. What about u ?


I am finally accepting that am pregnant and starting to feel thrilled about it.


----------



## tulip11

Arzoo heartiest congratulations :)


----------



## bubumaci

Arzoo, so wonderful, I couldn't feel happier!!
Baby P. is due 3rd November <3
So if you are December (but maybe earlier), then you have been keeping the secret from us for quite a while ;) :hugs2:


----------



## arzoo

Sorry dint mean to hold back as a secret first I went through OHSS and then the haematoma. We dint even share with our parents as we ere not sure how things would turn out. I am now feeling more confident that things will turn out fine.


----------



## bubumaci

I totally understand! This is such a tough journey, with so much uncertainty and worry and fear (I was only kidding about the secret ;) ). But I am glad that you are feeling better and more safe and confident.
OHSS is nasty (I had it flare up again when this try worked too), I hope you didn't have it too badly!
How are you feeling in general?
Do you have any piccies for us of your twinkies? <3


----------



## arzoo

My oHSs was moderate so dint have to get hospitalised took few days off work when it was really bad. But ovaries still hurt and was swollen even at my 12 week scan. But am not complaining about anything. Just small troubles and hoops to jumb through. 

I don't have any photos on my phone. Will try and scan the scan imagines were not good quality.


----------



## MBABY2014

Glad your feeling better!!
My EDD is 1/7 ;)


----------



## rdleela

Congrats, Arzoo! Glad you are starting to feel more confident!


----------



## Miraclbaby

tulip11 said:


> I searched online so what I found that one small testicle is sign of varicocele. My husband left testicle is slightly smaller than normal size while right one is of normal size. Fsh is 13.2. If it comes out to be varicocele so is there any treatment for that and then does it give any hope that after treatment there is some chances of sperms to be present in samples?

 HI tulip,

My husband had a varicocele repair last September. There are not enough surveys which show a connection between varicocele and infertility. But I know that our urologist does the varicocele repair before he does a mTESE.

Congrats Arzoo!!


----------



## Mikihob

Tulip, I have heard of women who get pregnant either naturally or with help after their husband gets a varicocele repair surgery. It doesn't always help but sometimes it aids in sperm production so that during an extraction the docs can find sperm where they couldn't before. 

Arzoo I am so freakin excited for you!!! :happydance: Huge congratulations!! How far are you? I will guess....14 weeks. :winkwink: I am sorry you had to deal with so much, but I am glad that none of it affected your twinnies. :hugs:


----------



## tulip11

Miraclbaby said:


> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> I searched online so what I found that one small testicle is sign of varicocele. My husband left testicle is slightly smaller than normal size while right one is of normal size. Fsh is 13.2. If it comes out to be varicocele so is there any treatment for that and then does it give any hope that after treatment there is some chances of sperms to be present in samples?
> 
> HI tulip,
> 
> My husband had a varicocele repair last September. There are not enough surveys which show a connection between varicocele and infertility. But I know that our urologist does the varicocele repair before he does a mTESE.
> 
> Congrats Arzoo!!Click to expand...

Yes you are right there is not enough material regarding this. We don't know whether it's varicocele or not but on the basis of up to date result and hormones level and on one forum I read a post where female posted that his hubby has slightly high fsh and slightly small left testicle which is exactly the same case with us she mentioned that wasthe case of varicocele . So this is what I am thinking that it may be this as well who knows. Thanks.


----------



## tulip11

Mikihob said:


> Tulip, I have heard of women who get pregnant either naturally or with help after their husband gets a varicocele repair surgery. It doesn't always help but sometimes it aids in sperm production so that during an extraction the docs can find sperm where they couldn't before.
> 
> Arzoo I am so freakin excited for you!!! :happydance: Huge congratulations!! How far are you? I will guess....14 weeks. :winkwink: I am sorry you had to deal with so much, but I am glad that none of it affected your twinnies. :hugs:

Yes I hope so. Doctors didn't tell us anything ab varicocele. We will get an appointment letter but during this time of period what i searched and read a lot so it shows that it could be varicocele.


----------



## snd80

Yay Arzoo!!!!! :happydance:

So happy to see one more azoo sister overcome this shitty disease!!!!

:hugs: to those still in waiting!!! Can't wait to see who the next lucky one is!!!


----------



## deafgal01

Snd well it won't be me, that is for sure!


----------



## Miraclbaby

tulip11 said:


> Miraclbaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tulip11 said:
> 
> 
> I searched online so what I found that one small testicle is sign of varicocele. My husband left testicle is slightly smaller than normal size while right one is of normal size. Fsh is 13.2. If it comes out to be varicocele so is there any treatment for that and then does it give any hope that after treatment there is some chances of sperms to be present in samples?
> 
> HI tulip,
> 
> My husband had a varicocele repair last September. There are not enough surveys which show a connection between varicocele and infertility. But I know that our urologist does the varicocele repair before he does a mTESE.
> 
> Congrats Arzoo!!Click to expand...
> 
> Yes you are right there is not enough material regarding this. We don't know whether it's varicocele or not but on the basis of up to date result and hormones level and on one forum I read a post where female posted that his hubby has slightly high fsh and slightly small left testicle which is exactly the same case with us she mentioned that wasthe case of varicocele . So this is what I am thinking that it may be this as well who knows. Thanks.Click to expand...

My husband had biopsy in 2009. I read the reports and it says no varicocele present. But last year the urologist found out that my husband had a very large varicocele just after 1 min. He said it s so big that he can feel it. You can even feel it. My husband also complained about heat in his privat area. The doctor told us that it comes from the blood which cant flow back from the testis. Ask your husband if he feels hot there? Or just get a second opinion from another urologist.


----------



## snd80

Oh DG! :hugs: Your time *WILL* come!!! I used to think just like you!!! It's all in God's timing baby!!! Took us 15 years to finally learn that!!!!

:hugs:, :hugs: and more :hugs:!!!!!!


----------



## deafgal01

Snd- I just meant I have to put any baby making plans on hold for a while. I got a cruise to focus on for March 2015 and according to the brochure, I'm not allowed on if I'm too "pregnant". So we are focused on that instead of trying for a baby.


----------



## gem10

Congrats arzoo! Such great news!

DG-enjoy yourself. I saw a quote on pinterest that says "Waiting isnt living" and that has been my motto lately. Enjoy yourself. Having or not having a baby doesnt define who you are. Enjoy your hubby. Many couples arent lucky to have a loyal, loving hubby, so in many, many ways we are blessed!


----------



## Stinas

DG - its ok.....you need to enjoy yourself too!!


----------



## deafgal01

Gem- I like that motto. I lost track of who I am in this whole waiting business that I was too obsessed. So this break has been good for my sanity and my relationship with my spouse in many ways.


----------



## Mikihob

deagal, if the next two IUI's don't work for us, we are taking a much needed break. I will take birth control to control my PCOS symptoms and concentrate on us. How exciting for a cruise!! 

Update ladies::
Friday I had an ultrasound and it showed a 3cm follicle and pre-ovulatory uterine lining. This morning I had 4.3 follicle and pre-ovulatory lining. But, my lining thickened to 7mm over the weekend. At 4am I am taking my HCG trigger and then IUI on Wednesday at 1:15pm. 

I am feeling a little more confident about this month. :flower:

Question: Where is the best place to put the HCG trigger? It's intramuscular but I wasn't sure if it's best in the thigh, hip or butt??


----------



## MBABY2014

I think butt is least painful- or so I heard!

Good Luck! I hope this is your month!


----------



## bubumaci

Hmmm - whenever I did HCG triggers, it was always in my tummy... is yours something different, that it has to be in thigh, hip / buttocks? Thigh / hip is probably easiest to reach ...

Good luck!!! :) :kiss: It all sounds really promising :)


----------



## raelynn

Hey all! I'm joining here again since we're trying for little one #2 now! Back at the fertility clinic and about to start round 1 of dIUI again. So glad to see this group is still around since it was such a huge support last time we were TTC.


----------



## rdleela

Welcome back Raelyn! So awesome to see someone trying for azoos baby #2!

Best of luck with this cycle, Miki!


----------



## Mikihob

bubumaci said:


> Hmmm - whenever I did HCG triggers, it was always in my tummy... is yours something different, that it has to be in thigh, hip / buttocks? Thigh / hip is probably easiest to reach ...
> 
> Good luck!!! :) :kiss: It all sounds really promising :)

Mine is intramuscular HCG injections. It's two boxes left from when DH had to take it. Intramuscular is supposed to be thigh, hip or butt. I always thought stomach too, but his wasn't for ovulating. :rofl: 

I may do the butt. EEEK! DH keeps saying he wants to give me one to pay me back for all the ones I gave him. RUDE!! :winkwink: :wacko:


----------



## MBABY2014

Mik- I did tons of progesterone in my butt

Here are some tips
The shot should be in the upper quadrant of either side- like draw an imaginary line from
The top of your 'crack' to the side of your butt..that's where it should be
Warm up your butt with a heating pad
Pull the skin taught- so the opposite of what you did in the belly
Do it quick- like a dart!!
Then have Hub massage it for a few minutes after!!


----------



## MBABY2014

Welcome Rae! Are you DIUI OR from TESE??


----------



## bubumaci

Welcome back Raelynn! :howdy: So exciting that you are going for baby #2!! Wishing you lots of luck :) :)


----------



## Mikihob

Trigger shot this am at 4:45. My butt is still a little sore. lol. DH forgot 10 seconds later and grabbed it this morning, I almost punched him. :haha: It wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be. BUT I also hate needles and shots.

Should I take OPK's or just stop testing since my IUI is tomorrow?? 

Thanks ladies! :hugs:


----------



## bubumaci

Hmmm ... well, you might as well just POAS once more :haha: - to give yourself peace of mind that you have your surge :hugs:
:dust::dust::dust:


----------



## Rainbow123

Eeeeek Miki! Good luck for tomorrow! Will have everything crossed for you! :hugs: 

Lovely to see you on here Raelynn! Wishing you all the best and I look forward to hearing how you get on!

XXX


----------



## raelynn

Mbaby - I'm doing dIUI again. My daughter is a dIUI baby. We had a successful TESE but it ended in miscarriage and we decided that for us dIUI was the best choice since it would be a huge chunk of savings again and we couldn't guarantee we'd find sperm again or that it would be viable enough not to end in another miscarriage.

Miki - Go ahead and test! I think poas keeps us sane (or as sane as possible) through all of this. I know I plan on testing through the whole thing. OPKs first then HPT cheapies.


----------



## Mikihob

I tested this afternoon at 2pm and got a positive OPK!! Trigger at 4:45am and positive OPK at 2:30pm. Not bad, not bad. :thumbup:

I never get positives any other time, so I am very excited and hopeful for this cycle to work and that I get my BFP!! :happydance:


----------



## raelynn

Miki -I never get positives either so I completely understand. Awesome that you were able to see a positive so quickly!


----------



## bubumaci

:wohoo: for the positive OPK! Am so excited for you :dust::dust::dust::kiss:


----------



## Mikihob

My IUI is in 3.5 hours. Yay! I have a welt from my trigger shot still. Is that something to worry about? I am currently sitting on a heat pad and massaging the area periodically. It seems to have lessened and the pain is now gone, but still. I worry. :wacko:

I showed DH this morning and he was like "WOH, yep, there's a welt". He refused to feel how big it was. He says he doesn't like to touch "weird skin things" :rofl:


----------



## SunUp

Hello ladies!!

Hey Rae! As ironic as this was - I got on just now, figuring I'd check to see if you were back in TTC mode or not - and Bam! - The first thing I read is your post! So excited for you! I hope I am not too far behind, I am still BF and cannot do another cycle until weaned. Hope things go 'quickly' for you! Sending you baby dust!

Miki- Good luck! I wouldn't worry about the welt from the trigger.


----------



## SunUp

SND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I seriously CANNOT believe how long I have been gone from this site!
TWINS?!?!
Send me a message!


----------



## SunUp

And Canadian Maple - big hugs! You are such an inspiration, its good to 'see' you on here!


----------



## Mikihob

Raelynn when is your next IUI?
Canadian Maple how are you doing? 
Sunup welcome back! 

My IUI went great! A little cramping after for a few hours. Laid on the couch ALL afternoon. :haha: Feeling good today. 

Come on BFP, I am a waitin for you!! :thumbup:


----------



## raelynn

Miki - Sending tons of baby dust your way! Hopefully this cycle is the one. Don't know when my IUI date is yet but we did CD3 blood and ultrasound yesterday and I start on clomid tomorrow. I go back 7/11 to see how things are progressing.

SunUp - I hope you're not far behind too! It is so great to have someone else with a similar situation. It was tough for me to go off of breastfeeding. I stopped literally 3 days before we went back to Shady Grove. I think it was harder on me to stop than her but we still have lots of snuggle time so that helps :) Plus, we know we'd like to have kids close in age so they can play together so we gotta get started again soon.


----------



## Kashish

Hi everyone..
How are you all?? Iam new to this forum but have been ttc since 5 years ..dh has azoospermia, primary testicular failure..performed tese..no sperms were found..now planning to try some medication again and go for another cycle of ivf icsi with tese..
Any success stories of conceiving with dh having testicular failure??
is it worth another try..with soo much pain i dnt want my hopes to be shattered again..


----------



## deafgal01

Kas- I have no testimony of success story so can't really be of much help here. Hopefully other ladies will be able to inspire you to have a little hope.

How is everyone doing? I have backed off from bnb a lot lately- focused on doing fun activities away from internet for a while. Partly because I don't feel like I fit in anymore anywhere on bnb. I don't know if I think it's time for me to call it quits and find joy in being a couple and go straight to adoption, or if I should try home insemination to save on costs (spouse agreed when we do that, we give it three cycles/tries and if nothing, we'll look into adoption).


----------



## Mikihob

Hi *Kashish*, sorry you have to be here but you are welcome. These ladies are wonderful and a great support system. I don't have experience with testicular failure. My DH has atrophic testicles which can mean primary testicular failure, but we never got a diagnosis. He did injectables for 9 months and never saw sperm in any of his SA's. He decided that he didn't want to any biopsy's, tese's, mTese's or anything. We decided to move in to donor sperm and do a few IUI's before moving into IVF. If they performed a tese and didn't find sperm I am not sure of the possibility of finding some after that. Other ladies on this board have had their DH on medication that allowed some sperm to be found later. I guess it depends on the reason for testicular failure. Is any of the procedures covered by insurance? Are you using that in your decision? Sorry if I didn't help or confused you. If you have any more questions- ASK AWAY. We will all try to answer them. :hugs:

*deafgal* I completely feel you. I have also thought about calling it quits. My thoughts were giving up my baby dreams all together, due to the costs of adoption. If you feel that you have a shot with three or four home inseminations, than by all means- give it your all. If neither of you actually have any faith whatsoever in them, it might be best to move on. Personally, I would fight, fight, fight until we "couldn't" fight anymore. If this IUI is BFN, we might be on a break for awhile because we don't have the funds to continue. I think home inseminations might be easier because you can just rest the whole day before and after and it should be less stressful on your body. Will you be monitored by a doc before or go based on OPK's? I hope that I was able to help you in some way. This is definitely a tough call and one that I have faced many times. You do belong here. It's hard sometimes, I too have felt out of place at times. This thread is so special because it's filled with women who know EXACTLY how you are feeling. Have been in your shoes, faced with the same decisions. Sometimes we choose different paths and some get pregnant sooner than others but in the end we all will have our beautiful babies. We are right here rooting for you each and every day. You never have to feel alone. Whenever I feel alone and down, I remember all of you and how you will always support me. We are here for YOU!! :thumbup: :hugs:

How is everyone else doing??


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## Kashish

Deafgal and mikihob thanks for responding
A donor sperm is not an option for me..dh totally against it..
Actually I dont stay in USA ..am from india..and we have to spend a lot on these procedures..but as dh and I earn quite well so its not a big issue..
Please if any of the board members are going through the same issue do respond and would be glad to know any success stories :)


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## MBABY2014

Kan- welcome... We dud find sperm in the TESE but my hub does not have testicular failure. If your doctor feels it's worth another go, and hubby is willing I say go for it! However- my doctor said your best chance in finding is the 1st procedure??

My hubby also did acupuncture and was on ALOT of fertility supplements before his TESE- I can get you the list if you like. 

Mik- when is your beta? How are you feeling?


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## Kashish

Hey Mbaby..please give me the list of fertility supplements..and also its been about 3 years since we had tese..so Iam thinking its better to giv another go..we hav appointment with doc after 15 days..let see what the doctor has to say..also read about a new supplement called sperm hope..anyone who tried it?
If it doesnt have side effects I think we will try it..


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## bubumaci

Hi Kashish,
I am sorry you have had to make your way here!
Not quite sure how testicular failure is diagnosed, but my DH has unexplained NO-Azoospermia / Oligospermia. At the collections, he would produce none or sometimes very few sperm, with no motility and poor morphology.
For all our tries, they always used the fresh samples, finding just enough sperm to fertilise the retrieved eggs via ICSI - even though we did have a frozen sample, which was a miracle sample.
His urologist prescribed Tamoxifen, which DH took for 6 weeks. The reason I say miracle sample - in May 2012, he produced 13MIO (!!!) with 8% motility - they froze 6 straws.
We tried the tamoxifen last year in February, in the hope that we would get similar results and be able to do IMSI - but DH was back to the non-production / minimal production.
Our RE suggesting doing TESE for this try in February (since he felt that the reason all our tries were failing, was because of the bad quality sperm) ... DH underwent the TESE on the morning of my ER and I went from one hospital with his samples to the clinic for my ER ... even before I went in they told me that they had not been able to find anything to use in the TESE material and would be thawing 3 straws from the (MIRACLE) sample from 2012 ...
Incredibly, whatever it was that made that sample as good as it was (I mean, we are talking about an increase from mostly zero sperm to 13mio) is what brought us our miracle BFP.

I know that there have been several reports of success with Tamoxifen. In our case, I don't know why that one attempt 2 years ago was a success, but the drugs had no effect when we tried it again at the beginning of last year ... but perhaps that might be worth a try?

The other thing that is supposed to also be good for men (I have been taking it, as it supports cell-regeneration), is Coenzym Q10.

Deafgirl : so totally understand you Sweetie! But regardless what route you decide to journey down, you will always belong here and we will always be here for you :hugs2: :kiss:


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## Kashish

Wow bubumaci..thanks for writing your story, its very inspiring and hopefully someday even i will get my bfp..
When fsh levels are very high and testerone levels are very low ..it indicates that it is primary testicular failure..
Before going for tese my dh tried coenzyme Q10 and many other medications prescribed by the doctor but it didnt help..but before we went for tese..sometime back when my dh got SA done if showed a count of 1 million sperms..but after that he never got that count again..he wasnt even taking any medication then..that time we were not aware that our ttc journey would be soo difficult ..so we didnt even get that sample freezed..now its like we just need one and are not able to find it..
Am going to give my last shot at ivf/icsi/tese..hope it works


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## bubumaci

Oh - and my DH was also totally against the idea of donor sperm. It was just after we had gone through try after try after try (and he knew how much I really wanted to be a Mother), that he started considering it. At the end of the day, we didn't have to go down that route, but he didn't remain opposed to it.
DH's FSH levels were 5.40 and his testosterone was 3.30 (which they said was at the low end, but subject to daily fluctuations).

How long did DH take the CoEnzyme Q10 for? I think all of these supplements do need to be taken for quite a while. And the Tamoxifen DH took, he was on for 6 weeks! It is promising, that you have had a sample with 1 million sperm. It indicates that there is some production going on there somewhere. And perhaps there is a chance of doing a slightly less invasive procedure than TESE (like the PESE), where they test several spots in the testes for sperm, as opposed to cutting out one chunk, where it is not even certain that production is taking place?


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## Kashish

He took the medications for about 2 months..and yes I have been reading about less invasive procedures..will definitely ask my doctor about it..


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## sharon99

Fingers crossed for you, Miki!

And Deafgal, thinking of you! Making these types of decisions is so difficult. It sounds like you are doing the right thing by focusing on you & your husband and having fun! We went to a few adoption informational meetings and it helped me to sort of grasp that idea as a "backup" plan if the IUIs didn't work. Wishing you much happiness & continued summer fun!


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## Mikihob

MBABY I don't have a beta scheduled. For some reason we never schedule one. I am taking a HPT next Wed, July 16. I am going crazy with symptoms. I am trying REALLY hard to not symptom spot. So far, it's not working. :haha:

Overall I am pretty much the same as usual, Clomid gives me nausea, fatigue and sore boobs. This months they are more sore than usual, I had sharp cramps two days ago and yesterday and had a dull crampy ache feeling in my low abdomen and pelvis but today I feel better. I am not sure if it's related to anything or just some new Clomid symptom or trigger related or what have you. I am trying to not read into anything so I don't get my hopes up too high. 

I did take a HPT yesterday morning and confirmed my trigger is out of my system. That is good.


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## Miraclbaby

hey Kashish,
i think my dh has the same diagnose along with low t-level. I have to check again. Sorry cannot remember every detail.We scheduled or first mTese for September. Hopefully it will work out but I m trying to keep my hopes low.


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## MBABY2014

Kash:
Here is the list

Vitamin E-400- 1x day
Carnitine - 1x day
L-5 MTHF- 1x day
ERA-DHA - 1x day
L- Glutathoine- 1x day
Zinc Supreme- 1x day
Multi-vitamin 

Hope this helps


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## CanadianMaple

Mikihob said:


> Raelynn when is your next IUI?
> Canadian Maple how are you doing?
> Sunup welcome back!
> 
> My IUI went great! A little cramping after for a few hours. Laid on the couch ALL afternoon. :haha: Feeling good today.
> 
> Come on BFP, I am a waitin for you!! :thumbup:

Thanks for asking. FET #1 was BFN. I'm squeezing in one last FET before I go back to work. Aiming for Aug 25. Hoping it works, it may be my last attempt.


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## Mikihob

Update:

DIUI #3= BFN. AF started today, 2 days early. I am devastated. :cry:

We are now on a break. I will start BC for a few months in the hopes that it can control my PCOS and help me lose the excess weight that PCOS and Clomid caused me to gain the last 6 months. I had a huge breakdown this morning and am having a rough day. I keep thinking, just do one more, but I don't think I can handle another BFN right now. So emotional. 

Thanks for the happy thoughts and prayers. I hope all you ladies are doing well. I will still be on here to cheer you ladies on. 

CanadianMaple I will keep you in my thoughts that this next FET is the winner. Are you doing anything different this time around?? :hugs:


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## bubumaci

Oh Miki, I am so so sorry!! I was just thinking today, that your OTD is in two days ... We are here for you! :hugs2: :kiss:


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## MBABY2014

Mik- so very sorry!! Maybe you might feel different in a week or so and might want to give it another try

Have you thought of IVF?

I know a lot of women IUI did not work after numerous attempts but IVF worked on the 1st shot!


Thinking of you and it's ok to have breakdowns and be emotional! Get it our!
Xo


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## Mikihob

MBABY we had planned on doing IVF but the money we took from the 401K for IVF was used on additional meds for DH and these IUI's and donor sperm. We are tapped. We are considering doing another 401K, but since we owe quite a bit in taxes due to the last one we are a little weery. I have thought of going to a doctor in Matamoros, Mexico. I have heard many great things and the prices are fair and they offer discounts for each "failure". It's something we are considering. 

I was sure this time I was pregnant, that made it all the much harder. I never called my doc to let him know, DH and I still need to discuss it, once I am over the "grieving" period. Thanks! :hugs: :hugs:


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## CanadianMaple

Mikihob I'm so sorry. Getting my BFN felt like a slap in the face after azoo. I really felt like I should get my BFP with FET because of all I went through. Is there a way to switch donors? I have read that changing donors will sometimes help.

My protocol is the exact same this time around. I was hoping they would switch something, but it could have just been an issue with the embryo.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Miki there are really no words to prepare you or help you through this challenging time. It's hard when you have AF show and still nothing to show for all these tries.


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## rdleela

Miki and Canadian maple, I am SO sorry to read of your BFN's - there are no words for how disappointed I know you ladies are. I am so happy to hear both of you talking next steps, though, because so much of this game is just pure luck!!! And we must try, try again...all my best to both of you! Xoxo


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## Mikihob

CanadianMaple we have 3 IUI vials of that donor still to use. My period started, spotting 12dpo and today 13dpo flow started. I KNOW I O'd on July 2 so I wonder why my period started early?? Unless I ovulated between the ultrasound and my HCG trigger. Argh. We might have to switch donor's if he doesn't have any more samples for us to buy. He is just such a perfect match to DH, I doubt we will find anyone as close. 

DH wants us to go one more time before taking a break. If this next one is a BFN, we would contact the IVF clinic and get a breakdown of all the costs and submit it for another 401K withdrawal (so much for retiring before we are 100 :winkwink:) so we can afford IVF. During all of that I would get a couple months break before starting. 

Advice ladies. Should I go again or take a break first? I want to go again and I don't. So confused. :wacko:


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## Olive333

Mikihob - I understand so well what you are going through. I was really hoping that the third time was the charm for you. I also had 2 BFN's IUI's with donor and I was very devastated the last time and we are taking a break. We want to continue, but I just don't know when. I don't want too wait too long since I'm about to turn 34.

This is a decision that only you can make and think about what feels better for you, follow your instict.

I'm so affraid of the failure, but if you don't try its already a failed.

Good luck and hope that whatever decision you make is the right one for you.


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## bubumaci

Miki - were you taking progesterone or anything to support the luteal phase? If not, then perhaps you were really just having a shorter luteal phase this time round?
You were also testing your LH weren't you, and it didn't seem that you had your surge before the trigger - so you probably did ovulate after the trigger... :hugs2:
Have you in the past known the exact length of your ovulatory + luteal phases? Did they measure your progesterone this time around? So so frustrating :(

I am thinking, since you have been having natural cycles without meds (except trigger), that certainly physically you would be OK to go for it again right away. How do you feel? I get the wanting to take a break, but wanting to try again ... maybe sit a cycle out and really monitor the date of ovulation and then the length of the luteal phase (maybe even testing to make sure the hormone levels are where they should be, to determine whether or not you might need additional supplementary support after the next try)...? :hugs2:


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## Mikihob

Bubu I was not on anything for support. I have never been tested for the exact lengths of either ovulatory or luteal phases. I totally forgot that I did get a positive OPK AFTER the trigger and never did before. Thanks for the reminder. :thumbup: Maybe the spermies and the eggie didn't meet. 

I feel ok, other than really down. I am having a hard time getting motivated for anything yesterday and today. Since I can only do Clomid for one more month, I think we might go for it. As long as we have the money of course. I am thinking of asking the doc to look for multiple follicles instead of just finding one and leaving it at that. At least if it's only the right ovary with eggs I can lay on my right side to boost the spermies getting in the correct tube. 

I have considered doing a laparoscopy to have the doc check my tubes and uterus or an HSG. I am unsure if my dog does those tests or not, but I want to ask. So far each month, my progesterone levels are great. The first IUI I had very high progesterone 6 days after IUI, so he thinks that I had a chemical. Every other month, whether we did IUI or not it was always in a good spot. 

I will call him tomorrow and see what he has to say. The plan is the same, Clomid days 3-7, ultrasounds, trigger, IUI.


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## melissaelaine

Popping in to say hi! We are hoping to finally start our first IVF/ICSI cycle late next month!


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## Mikihob

melissa that is great!! Are excited to finally be doing it? Nervous? I am so happy for you. I hope you can get your BFP on the first cycle! :hugs: :thumbup:


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## melissaelaine

Mikihob said:


> melissa that is great!! Are excited to finally be doing it? Nervous? I am so happy for you. I hope you can get your BFP on the first cycle! :hugs: :thumbup:

Hi Miki! I am very excited. And nervous. We're going to learn a lot about our situation from the first cycle, so I am definitely looking forward to learning and hopefully receiving good news!


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## sharon99

Miki, I was away for a week and was hoping to come home to see good news. I'm so sorry about the BFN. What did your doctor say? There are no words- that just sucks. I hope you're taking care of you this weekend.


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## Mikihob

sharon I still haven't called him. lol. Monday morning, first thing, I have to call him to set up the ultrasounds for this IUI cycle. We find out July 25 if we can afford it. Hoping that we can. If everything goes right, I should trigger on Sat or Sun (Aug 2 or 3) and then IUI Mon or Tues (Aug 4 or 5). I hope fourth times the charm. I took this BFN pretty hard, the hardest yet actually. I hope that was the last time. :thumbup: :hugs:


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## deafgal01

Good luck!


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## melissaelaine

Good luck, Miki!!


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## arzoo

Good luck Miki.

How is everyone else doing?


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## deafgal01

Lately doing ok... Not as upset or miserable over the idea of not being pregnant yet but I'm surviving and enjoying life if that says anything.


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## Olive333

Same as deafgal. I have my good days and bad days. I had a bad day on Friday when my friend let me know she had her second baby. Everytime i hear of a pregnancy or a birth it's a bad day for me.

I'm concentrating on my vacation and we have a dr. appointment in the middle of August with another RE to see what we can do if anything.

Good Luck Miki!!!


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## tulip11

hi 
how are you all ? just a quick question regarding appointment letter. We had our last appointment about 5 weeks ago that was ultrasound about which dr said that after that we will refer you guys to a fertility clinic. normally after one appointment we used to get another appointment letter within a week but this time its been more than a month idk why is it too late ?


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## bubumaci

Hmmm, not familiar with appointment letters - doesn't work that way here... But I don't see why it should be too late. Just ring them and ask, why you haven't yet received your referral? xx


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## Miraclbaby

Hello everyone. I need some advice. On the last 2 Ovulation days I felt a lot of pain. 2 weeks ago i went to see my gynecologist. we did a ultrasound. My result came in yesterday. The doctor was not there but her nurse practitioner talked to me. she told me that i have a tiny cyst on the left side and it s not big deal. I asked her to give me the report because I wanted to send them to my IVF clinics. At home i read the report and it says that there is a complex cyst on the ride side and a cyst on the left sides. Some fluid detected. The nurse practitioner did not say a word about the ride side or the fluid!!! I m starting my stimulation in less then 4 weeks. Does it make sense to start the stimulation? Do the cysts decrease my chances for a successful ivf?


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## deafgal01

Cysts can sometime intervene with the process- it doesn't seem to affect "chances" of successful ivf but depending on how big they are, sometimes the dr will want you to put ivf on hold to make sure the cysts reduce in size. I've heard of some girls developing cysts on fertility meds and then having to "take a break" for a cycle or two to have the cysts reduce on their own usually.

More information would be needed though and you should check with your fertility clinic to see what their standard procedure is, regarding cysts.


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## Mikihob

*Miraclbaby* I would be worried about OHSS. If you already have cysts with fluid it could increase your risk for OHSS from the stims. I would definitely ask if the fluid and the cysts are a problem. Some cysts do have fluid and if they are small I wouldn't think it would cause a problem. You would definitely need more monitoring to watch for OHSS. I can't believe she didn't even tell you about the right side or the fluid. To say one small on the left and leave out the rest. What??!! :dohh: I hope that it's all ok and you can still move forward with your IVF. :hugs:

*Olive* I definitely hear you about getting down at birth and pregnancy announcements. My step-daughters friend had her son a couple of weeks ago and the constant pics sometimes get to me. My eldest step-daughter is pregnant with a guy she's been dating for a few months while going through a divorce. I just break down sometimes and think, how unfair! We WILL get there. :hugs: 

*deafgal* I am trying to enjoy life too. Baby stuff as I call it, is ALWAYS on my mind and the meds are starting to mess with my emotions badly. I am getting so upset, mad, irritated and crying at everything that annoys me. UGH. I am glad that you are doing so well. Your weight loss is going great too!! Better than mine. :winkwink: :hugs:

Update ladies:
First ultrasound July 25. Checking follies early to make certain timing is great. Excited! Nervous about the 4th IUI not working, but trying to stay positive.


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## Miraclbaby

I got the Ok for my IVF. I sent them the reports to let them know. But the nurse said I can start my pill this weekend and I can start my stimulation at the end of august. I m really excited. Finally a step forward. The wait kills me sometimes, but I think everything happens for a reason. Hope all you girls are doing great. thanks for your response


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## Mikihob

That's great you can still move forward with your IVF cycle Miraclbaby. :happydance:


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## bubumaci

Yay :wohoo: :) :)


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## Rainbow123

How exciting Miraclbaby! Glad the cysts aren't going to mess things up!

Tulip - I pretty much ALWAYS had to chase up my clinic to make sure that we were going to get the appointment when we were supposed to. Did my flipping head in! One time it was like they hadn't even been given a referral note for me when it was 8 weeks after our previous appointment where they'd said the next appointment would be in 8 weeks! It's the last thing that you should have to do, but unfortunately with some clinics they do need chasing up!

Miki - Good luck with your scan tomorrow! Hoping they see some lovely follies developing! You're right about all the photos going up of people's babies, I nearly deleted my Facebook account because of it, but decided to just stay off for the most part when we were going through our darkest days. 

Lots of love to all you lovely ladies! XXX


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## tulip11

Rainbow123 said:


> How exciting Miraclbaby! Glad the cysts aren't going to mess things up!
> 
> Tulip - I pretty much ALWAYS had to chase up my clinic to make sure that we were going to get the appointment when we were supposed to. Did my flipping head in! One time it was like they hadn't even been given a referral note for me when it was 8 weeks after our previous appointment where they'd said the next appointment would be in 8 weeks! It's the last thing that you should have to do, but unfortunately with some clinics they do need chasing up!
> 
> Miki - Good luck with your scan tomorrow! Hoping they see some lovely follies developing! You're right about all the photos going up of people's babies, I nearly deleted my Facebook account because of it, but decided to just stay off for the most part when we were going through our darkest days.
> 
> Lots of love to all you lovely ladies! XXX

yeah yesterday we asked so they said today theyl will let us know at 4 pm about whats going on ? we were waiting but didnt receive any call :(


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## bubumaci

:( now that's just rude! How annoying! I hope you hear today. If you haven't by noon, call them!


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## Mikihob

Just got back from the ultrasound appt. Doc saw many follies on my right ovary but they are still too small to measure. He was checking for my left ovary and couldn't find it. He searched and searched and finally found what he believes was it. Now I am worried there is something wrong since he couldn't find it. :wacko: He seemed ok after he "found" it. :winkwink: I go in again next Tuesday to check the progress. :happydance:


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## tulip11

Hi
If we want to go on private route as I am thinking of Dr Ramsey what would be the procedure as NHS is giving us free first attempt? Do we have to tell them that we want to go through private or if we mention the desired Dr name so they will refer us?


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## bubumaci

Miki - I wouldn't worry about him "not being able to find it" ... sometimes, the ovaries are *hiding* (I had one side that didn't always want to show itself), but that is nothing to worry about! I am very glad to hear that you are being monitored more closely now! :kiss: :dust:

Tulip - I'm sorry, I have no idea as to how to proceed in the UK! :(


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## tulip11

Finally got another appointment letter after 5 weeks. It's on 4th of august let's see what's next as we had all done with tests stages.


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## Rainbow123

Glad you've managed to get another appointment Tulip! Arzoo went with Dr Ramsay, maybe you could PM her?
X


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## gem10

Hello ladies. Quick update from me. We are in the middle of our third IVF cycle. My hubby had his tese yesterday (third one) and I had my egg retrieval today. They got 12 eggs from me, but very sadly did not find any sperm. I am devastated. I had to go into my retrieval crying and woke up the same. We had to make the very hard decision to use all donor. I really did not think this would happen. We changed our protocol and was excited for a new drug they were going to use to help the embryos stick, and now we wont have that opportunity. My DH was a complete rock. I was in recovery for a few hours this time, not sure why but I am in a lot of pain this time. In those few hours he came to terms with our situation and was smiling when he saw me. He said I am ready to be a dad, you want to be a mom, and this is our only choice now. I dont know where he pulls this strength from. He amazes me every day. So we are moving forward with DS. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance from those using DS that you feel happy with your decision. Does this sadness disappear when you get your BFP? I am just so sad, scared, angry and excited at the same time that I need some of my girls to talk me through this. We find out about our embryos tomorrow, and hopefully transfer on Monday. To make matters more challenging, we kept this cycle a secret. Not even my mom knows. Which is good in many ways, but hard in others. I am hoping to ahock everyone if we do get pregnant. But we are not telling anyone we used donor. My DH is not comfortable with that. Anyway, any thoughts or advice are much appreciated. I have been watching from the sidelines and thinking of you girls always.


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## Miraclbaby

I am sorry that they didnt find any sperms. Hopefully everything will go well with the donor sperm. I think once you have your baby in your arm you will be thrilled. I know its a diffcult decision but your husband supports you and your love will only grow more 


gem10 said:


> Hello ladies. Quick update from me. We are in the middle of our third IVF cycle. My hubby had his tese yesterday (third one) and I had my egg retrieval today. They got 12 eggs from me, but very sadly did not find any sperm. I am devastated. I had to go into my retrieval crying and woke up the same. We had to make the very hard decision to use all donor. I really did not think this would happen. We changed our protocol and was excited for a new drug they were going to use to help the embryos stick, and now we wont have that opportunity. My DH was a complete rock. I was in recovery for a few hours this time, not sure why but I am in a lot of pain this time. In those few hours he came to terms with our situation and was smiling when he saw me. He said I am ready to be a dad, you want to be a mom, and this is our only choice now. I dont know where he pulls this strength from. He amazes me every day. So we are moving forward with DS. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance from those using DS that you feel happy with your decision. Does this sadness disappear when you get your BFP? I am just so sad, scared, angry and excited at the same time that I need some of my girls to talk me through this. We find out about our embryos tomorrow, and hopefully transfer on Monday. To make matters more challenging, we kept this cycle a secret. Not even my mom knows. Which is good in many ways, but hard in others. I am hoping to ahock everyone if we do get pregnant. But we are not telling anyone we used donor. My DH is not comfortable with that. Anyway, any thoughts or advice are much appreciated. I have been watching from the sidelines and thinking of you girls always.


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## bubumaci

Gem - I am so sorry that this TESE wasn't successful! :( Your DH sounds absolutely amazing, I must say! (btw - my DH had a TESE in February the same day as my ER - and while I was still waiting for my turn to go in for the ER, the nurses told me that they hadn't been able to find anything useable in the TESE sample ... so I lay there with silent tears running down my cheeks, much like you did ... it was this try that brought us our BFP - we did have a frozen sample from two years ago ...).
I know it isn't the same and you asked for experiences with BFPs with DS. That I cannot say anything about. But you do know our journey - how many ERs we had, how many transfers ... and what I can tell you about our journey is : the second (really, literally the second) I knew that this try had worked and knew I was pregnant ... EVERY SINGLE TRY, EVERY SINGLE TEAR (the pain; emotional, physical, psychological ... financial - the frustration, not knowing) - it was all behind me and I knew it had all been worth it! Really, it was immediate. The sadness, everything was gone and I just felt happy and excited and (couldn't believe it - still can't most of the time!!) felt that it was worth having gone through it all, for that :bfp:

I look forward to hearing good news about your embryos tomorrow! And just wanted to say again : your DH is fabulous, he is entirely on board, they are YOUR (plural) embryos, will be YOUR child/children and he is the Daddy! <3 :kiss: :hugs:

:dust::dust::dust:


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## BrandyRelax

I know how you feel. My hubby had a second mTESE and they found nothing. We used 3 sperm from the previous mTESE cycle and didn't get pregnant from that. We subsequently got pregnant through dIUI. I'm about 7 months pregnant. I am so excited to meet our little girl, and look at it this way - if we hadn't used donor, we wouldn't have her. I'm sure as time goes on that feeling will get stronger (especially once she's born and I get to know her as a little person). It is still hard when people make comments about "I wonder who's nose she'll have?", or "I wonder what colour her hair will be?", but we are dealing with it, and telling people as the time seems right.

So it does get easier with time. It's essentially grief over the loss of your jointly biological child. The happiness of being pregnant is different, so don't let it cloud your grief process, because it will come up later if you don't deal with it now.

Hopefully that helped! :)



gem10 said:


> Hello ladies. Quick update from me. We are in the middle of our third IVF cycle. My hubby had his tese yesterday (third one) and I had my egg retrieval today. They got 12 eggs from me, but very sadly did not find any sperm. I am devastated. I had to go into my retrieval crying and woke up the same. We had to make the very hard decision to use all donor. I really did not think this would happen. We changed our protocol and was excited for a new drug they were going to use to help the embryos stick, and now we wont have that opportunity. My DH was a complete rock. I was in recovery for a few hours this time, not sure why but I am in a lot of pain this time. In those few hours he came to terms with our situation and was smiling when he saw me. He said I am ready to be a dad, you want to be a mom, and this is our only choice now. I dont know where he pulls this strength from. He amazes me every day. So we are moving forward with DS. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance from those using DS that you feel happy with your decision. Does this sadness disappear when you get your BFP? I am just so sad, scared, angry and excited at the same time that I need some of my girls to talk me through this. We find out about our embryos tomorrow, and hopefully transfer on Monday. To make matters more challenging, we kept this cycle a secret. Not even my mom knows. Which is good in many ways, but hard in others. I am hoping to ahock everyone if we do get pregnant. But we are not telling anyone we used donor. My DH is not comfortable with that. Anyway, any thoughts or advice are much appreciated. I have been watching from the sidelines and thinking of you girls always.


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## Mikihob

gem I am glad that you have such an amazing DH by your side. DS was a hard decision for us. My DH was totally against it at the start and as time moved forward and we kept getting told he wasn't producing he had a change of heart and said that he wants us to have a baby. Even with DS the baby is still half of me, so he was happy. We also are not telling anyone about the DS. He doesn't like the idea of people knowing that he couldn't produce and couldn't get me pregnant. I can only imagine that any fear or doubt about using DS would be gone as soon as you got your BFP. It would come back during pregnancy because you would wonder what features they would have and then they are born. You are so surprised at how closely they resemble DH as they age. My DH always says genes don't make the daddy, the man does. I think the love that we give them kinda helps their features too. I hope that your embryos are doing great and you can get your BFP!! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## Mikihob

Update:

HCG shot today and IUI#4 tomorrow! I put a heating pad on my bum like mbaby I believe told me too. It hurt way less going in, it burned a little when the HCG got in and then afterwards I gushed blood like no other. I got a bandaid and DH was all, "You won't need a bandaid. I never needed one and it's not that bad." Afterwards, "Get me a bandaid- you are gushing." :rofl: Hoping for no welt and no major bruise. 

Hope everyone is doing well and getting great news! :hugs:


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## bubumaci

Ooooh... Miki.... :dust::dust::dust: I am so excited for you :) :kiss:


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## gem10

Well, I got the call. All twelve embryos fertilized. Goes to show what a difference it makes when you have normal sperm. We only ever got half. It was hard to get the call. It was not nearly as exciting for us than when they called for my DH's sperm. He kind of got upset. This is so bittersweet. &#128532;


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## rdleela

Gem, I'm so sorry you guys are going through this emotional turmoil with not having any of hubby's sperm...amazing news that you have 12 embryos to work with, though! I'm no help with the donor side of things, but I for sure know that you've got some grieving to do, so please take care and allow yourself to feel all the feelings! And yah, what an amazing hubby you have! Best of luck to you!

And miki, you as well!!


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## Mikihob

gem congrats on having all 12 fertilize! I am sorry it's such a bittersweet moment. I know DH feels bad because his sperm barely fertilized half and now this donor fertilized all. It's hard feeling like that. On one hand he's happy you have a fantastic shot for a BFP but at the same time he feels like he's less of a man for not being able to do that. I hope that he can continue to feel happy that you two are able to have babies together. He will move past this hard spot and love that baby more than anyone in the world (other than you of course :winkwink: ) :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## tulip11

hi everyone
my question is when dr refers you to fertility specialist who will do sperm retrieval and then putting female on certain drugs for retrieval of eggs etc etc in uk so how much time all this process takes from start to end if nhs is giving you first try for free ? just a wild guess ? i am asking because since we came to know about hubby diagnoses so all the tests took long time so will it be the same for the second stage as well where they will try to find out something then if they get something so further process etc does it also takes long time ?


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## snd80

Good luck Gem and Miki!!! :dust: :dust: :dust:!!!

DS was a hard choice for my hubby as well, but he knew how important it was to me to have a child and wanted to make me happy, and now that we are at 29 weeks with twins, it has all faded into the background! After our last ultrasound, he was showing his sister one of the boys picts and said to her "look at them lips... looks like ours don't it?" (him and his sister look *just* alike) and all I could do was grin! It's not even a thought in his mind anymore! And as I watched him work night after night in our nursery painting and getting it ready, I know he will love them both weither they are his blood children or not! :cloud9: 

Hope everything works out for the best for you and hubby in this decision. I feel like over time he will be like mine... never even think another thought about it!!! :hugs:


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## Teach2

Hi everyone we have been TTC for over 2 years. My results came back fine, DH finally got an SA and it was bad. He wasn't given a letter so I only have what he said to go by which was 7% slow moving, 0% fast moving from what I could gather very low count in the first place. They asked if he had waited longer than the hour (which he hadn't) and said they couldn't liquidize it???? (That's what DH said) He goes for another SA soon then I need to take the results to the doc so that we can be referred to a gynecologist. They said not to let anyone make money out of our situation. I'm thinking that's not a good sign since the NHS would surely love us to spend out of pocket rather than use them.

We only get 1 free IVF, I know it's not much to go on I'm really frustrated with the lack of info myself but it's hard enough for DH without me badgering him. Does it sound like we have a chance?


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## gem10

Thank you everyone, your kind words have been a big help. Right now its still very hard. He is having a hard time hearing the reports on the embryos. He is not really excited at all. I kind of feel the same. The only thing thats keeping me excited is knowing there is a chance I could get pregnant this time. I hope these feelings are normal. I think we are just so scared of not knowing how we are going to feel. Plus all of these questions running through our minds. Should we tell anyone, like my mom? Do we tell our child? Its a lot to digest. Plus the few friends who did know about the cycle keep asking questions bc they know what we have been through. I so badly want to tell them, and vent my pain, but I cant. I am being very vague, like we have some embryos. Where as normally I would tell them the number of sperm, eggs, embryos, quality, etc. Its just hard. I also have a mild case of OHSS which has made me feel horrible the past few days. Hopefully everything will get better with time.


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## raelynn

gem10 said:


> Hello ladies. Quick update from me. We are in the middle of our third IVF cycle. My hubby had his tese yesterday (third one) and I had my egg retrieval today. They got 12 eggs from me, but very sadly did not find any sperm. I am devastated. I had to go into my retrieval crying and woke up the same. We had to make the very hard decision to use all donor. I really did not think this would happen. We changed our protocol and was excited for a new drug they were going to use to help the embryos stick, and now we wont have that opportunity. My DH was a complete rock. I was in recovery for a few hours this time, not sure why but I am in a lot of pain this time. In those few hours he came to terms with our situation and was smiling when he saw me. He said I am ready to be a dad, you want to be a mom, and this is our only choice now. I dont know where he pulls this strength from. He amazes me every day. So we are moving forward with DS. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance from those using DS that you feel happy with your decision. Does this sadness disappear when you get your BFP? I am just so sad, scared, angry and excited at the same time that I need some of my girls to talk me through this. We find out about our embryos tomorrow, and hopefully transfer on Monday. To make matters more challenging, we kept this cycle a secret. Not even my mom knows. Which is good in many ways, but hard in others. I am hoping to ahock everyone if we do get pregnant. But we are not telling anyone we used donor. My DH is not comfortable with that. Anyway, any thoughts or advice are much appreciated. I have been watching from the sidelines and thinking of you girls always.

Gem - I am so sorry you are going through this. It is absolutely devastating to realize the way of getting to a family that you dreamed of is not a reality. However, I can speak from my experience with DS. We grieved the decision as well. It got easier when we got our BFP. We were overjoyed. But, as Mikihob mentioned, the fear came back of what will they look like what if they used the wrong donor, etc. I can say that now that our little girl is here, we love her to death. We're trying again using DS again and my fears are definitely less. Our daughter looks so much like me that people just gravitate to that. She's a total daddy's girl and the two of them are great to watch together. So, it will get easier. Best of luck to you and I hope your BFP is just around the corner!


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## MBABY2014

&#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;gem- I'm so sorry to hear that they found nothing in the sample and can understand as to your questions and feelings of uncertainty!! It of course is normal!! I think it wil take time and maybe just keep on telling yourself 'lets do today' ...a day at a time for now... Deal with each day, the highs/lows, ups/downs as they come and go. Maybe thus can help you and hub to feel less overwhelmed as you go through the transfer, 2ww and until you hopefully get your BFP!!! You both may feel very different once you see the 2 beautiful lines!! So take it dayby day until thrn..I'll be thinking of you!!

&#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399; Mik- yaya for IUI! Glad the heading pad helped!! Please keep us posted!!


How is everyone??

Rdella- baby time soon???? &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56856;&#55357;&#56856;


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## Mikihob

Update everyone:

IUI was yesterday with my docs nurse/midwife since he is out of town. I have to say that this was the least painful IUI of all. I had sharp cramping on the right side the afternoon before IUI and then IUI. Usually I go straight home to rest but didn't. We went grocery shopping, it took about 20 minutes. We got home and my neighbors three boys were playing outside in the rain with rain coats and were super excited I was home. I chatted with them while getting rained on, went inside, loved on the dogs and laid down. I laid with a slant towards my right to encourage the spermies to go that way. :haha: :winkwink: 

Now the TWW has begun!! 

How is everyone?


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## bubumaci

:) ... really hoping that this works, Miki! :hugs: :dust::dust::dust:
Doing well here - still having to test my blood sugar levels four times a day. On Monday, they will review my "blood sugar journal" and then decide on how we proceed. So far I am quite happy with the results, as I am staying below the upper figure I was given. Still higher than normal, but definitely not gestational diabetes ... yet. Next week we're 28th week and from then, the hormones surge again, which can affect the levels of insulin required. So I can imagine that I will have to monitor for quite a while and then take it from there ...
Pünktchen's furniture arrived on Thursday and we put it together, so that has been a very exciting development ... my Dad is arriving on Tuesday and I'm looking forward to my birthday on Wednesday, treating us all to the 3D/4D session (my Daddy and parents-in-law are going to be so surprised) :) :)


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## rdleela

Gem, I think everything your feeling must be very normal; I hope you find your way of making it through this!

AFM, my azoos baby will be here in the next few weeks!! Eeeek!!!


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## Rainbow123

Gem - you must be feeling absolutely devastated and it is completely normal to be feeling that way. I always 'knew' that they wouldn't find any sperm when they did DH's mTESE, and I thought I had prepared myself for that, but when the news came that there weren't any there it was like having a ton of bricks thrown on my heart. I couldn't go into work the next day (luckily it was the Friday) and spent a few days grieving as though we had lost a really close family member. 
We had been told to wait until after the mTESE to proceed with ICSI/IUI, so we then had a few weeks to get our heads around things and order DS. By the time it came to the IUI a month and a half later, I'd come to terms with it all and was starting to feel hopeful and excited for once! 
Is there any way that you can wait for a few weeks before you have your embryo transferred? I know that those few weeks between our news and the IUI did us both the world of good, so it might be good for you both too.
I always wondered how I would feel when I got pregnant using DS, but I can honestly tell you that it feels like the most natural and normal thing to me. I thought it would feel strange, but I feel so connected to this little person growing inside of me. DH was able to become logical about the fact we were using DH and is coping loads better than I would have thought. I think for him, the pregnancy is a good time for his feelings about the baby to develop. He's said himself that he thinks it will start to feel 'normal' when the baby gets here, but things like scans help him to make a connection.
My thoughts are with you Gem and I hope you and DH find peace with the way things are going. Lots of love and hugs :hugs: xxxxxx


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## deafgal01

Gem - my heart goes out to you. It is hard to hear that kind of news but I rejoice the fact all 12 eggs you have fertilized! Hopefully over time you two will know what you feel more comfy doing in terms of how much info to really share but I agree it is a very private thing to deal with and not something you want anyone to know about just yet but perhaps when the time to inform your child comes - or maybe never would be a good time to let important people in your life know in case the baby needs reassurance that everyone still loves him/her regardless of using ds.

Miki- good luck.

As for how I have been. Well this past week I have been so busy teaching and then helping run a sports camp after school that I slept even less than normal. That meant no time to even think about anything baby related even though one volunteer had her baby there with her at the camp. I suppose it helps that she kept her pregnancy off Facebook for the most part that I had not realized she had a baby in the last one year. :shock: her baby boy is turning 1 on Saturday and I for the first time in like 3 years feel comfy enough to go to this one birthday party. Normally I cannot even think about going to any but this one I don't mind so much since I enjoyed socializing with this boy. I just hope one day I get to be a mother and have a child to call my own. Today I feel like I have given up (even though I know we will try with home insemination at some point) but it does feel like I may never get to experience ever being pregnant. Seems somewhat easier to accept that idea now even though I still have days when I cry over that but it is few and far in between lately.


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## sharon99

Miki, good luck!!! It sounds like you have a very positive attitude heading into this TWW! Lots of happy thoughts headed your way.

Gem, that is such difficult news to hear. I'm so sorry. I completely agree with what Rainbow said- any way you can wait a little bit to wrap your head around the news? It must be so hard just to be hit with the news all at once like that. When DH got his diagnosis, we always knew mTESE wasn't an option for us... so we had several months of thinking, counseling, and accepting before we did a dIUI. If we had moved on to DS the day after his diagnosis? Yeah, that would have been hard.

I will echo what others have said- now that we made the decision and have a little one coming in just a few months, we are very happy with the decision. Life handed us a sh*tty situation, but the BFP, and the whole pregnancy, really feels like a miracle. DH is the one coming to doctor's appointments with me, making me milkshakes, talking to the baby... it is HIS child, for sure. There are moments of pain, of course... but they are more & more fleeting. Someone sent us a onesie that said "Handsome like my Daddy", and he made a "joke" about how it should say Handsome like my Donor... but talking about it between ourselves (and in our case, with a few others) has helped.

Teach, I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I'm sorry I won't be much help- our numbers were always 0.

Big hugs to everyone! xoxo


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## tulip11

Update 
Today we had an appointment with gynecologist she said we will get out first ivf appointment letter within 4 weeks for nowshe advised my hubby to loose some weight he is 102 she said reduce it to 100 and it would be much better if 95 because if you would be over weight so they won't do any sperms retrieval. And today she sent me for some blood test she said we will know what sort of doses will be required for you that's why we are doing this test. At end she told me to start simple folic acid or take pregnacare for conception supplements. She said that we will refer you guys to Sheffield and there we will get registered to something sorry I don't remember it's name. 

Any one whose hubby was over weight and found some sperms? She said actually there is risk factor involved while we do when a person is overweight. So if my hubby won't loose weight they won't proceed further.


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## Rainbow123

That's great news to hear you're progressing Tulip! 

Glad things are becoming easier Deafgal. Do you have any idea about when you might try home insemination?

Sharon - I completely get what you mean about the occasional moments of pain. We told DH's brothers we were pregnant on Saturday (we told them the whole situation about donor sperm a few weeks ago) and everyone was really excited. Then later on, one of his brothers was telling us about a situation where his friend "Wasn't man enough" to get his wife pregnant. It was very inconsiderate, I don't know if he realised his upsetting comment, but damn, it was like a stab in the heart thinking about how DH would be feeling after hearing that. The stigma surrounding azoo is one of the hardest things about it all, especially when those closest to you don't think before they speak! Rah! Anyhoo...

Love and hugs to all.

XXX


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## deafgal01

Probably sometime after jan 2015? Idk. I really want to enjoy the cruise as I never been on one before and they won't let passengers on if they are beyond 3 months pregnant for some reason.


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## gem10

Deafgal, I totally undersrand how you feel. At times I really thought how great life would be without kids too. Its a roller coaster of emotions, and facebook can certainly get the coaster rolling!

Mik, I am praying for you. I think our test dates are the same day, the 15th?

We did a single embryo transfer. It was a blastocyst that was already hatching. I also had neupogen put in on Saturday, aka embryo glue, so hipefully things will work out. It was not the easiest today. My husband was in tears after the transfer. He said he needs me to be strong amd happy, and in time it will help him come around. God Ipray this gets easier.

Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I keep going back and rereading them and they are really helping me along. You ladies are the best. 

Thinking and praying for you all.


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## bubumaci

Gem, a hatching blast is fabulous!! Do you have any :cold:? I am sorry that it is so hard for DH, poor things. It will take time, but I am confident, that at the end of the day, it won't make any difference to either of you, whose genes little bubba gets :kiss: :dust::dust::dust:


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## rdleela

Gem, best of luck with this cycle! I hope it does get easier for you; I'm sure there is going to be such a range of emotions! Xoxo


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## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Deafgal, I totally undersrand how you feel. At times I really thought how great life would be without kids too. Its a roller coaster of emotions, and facebook can certainly get the coaster rolling!
> 
> Mik, I am praying for you. I think our test dates are the same day, the 15th?
> 
> We did a single embryo transfer. It was a blastocyst that was already hatching. I also had neupogen put in on Saturday, aka embryo glue, so hipefully things will work out. It was not the easiest today. My husband was in tears after the transfer. He said he needs me to be strong amd happy, and in time it will help him come around. God Ipray this gets easier.
> 
> Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I keep going back and rereading them and they are really helping me along. You ladies are the best.
> 
> Thinking and praying for you all.

gem how exciting you had a hatching blast! I hope the other 11 freeze well for siblings. :winkwink: You can have a dozen kids right?? :flower: 
Yes I test on the 15th too. We can be twins! If we both get a BFP we can be bump buddies!! :hugs: DH will come around. It's hard right now because he just feels bad that all this time he wasn't able to give you what you wanted most and now "some other man" did. It's hard. My DH started out saying no mTese or biopsy, move onto DS. Sometimes he still gets down because as we keep getting negatives and I keep getting heart broken he feels that it's his fault. It's hard for them. In a way it does show how deeply he feels about you, the relationship and your future babies. A great loving husband = a great loving father. :hugs:


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## gem10

Thank you ladies, Mik, I would love to be bump buddies!
We had three other blastocysts they froze. They are growing out three more another day to blastocysts, so we may have 6 total frosties. So that is some good news!


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## gem10

And deafgal, my advice is to enjoy your trip. I always said, after each failed cycle that I wanted to go away with DH and just drink, eat, and enjoy each other. Part of me wishes we had. So my suggesstion is focus on that and have the best time ever! This "stuff" will be here when you get back


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## gem10

Quick question. I have been pretty laid back this round of ivf. I am on day 2 of bedrest and already going 
crazy. How long did ladies with BFP stay on bedrest? Also, did you continue decag coffee? I have been drinking organic decaf coffee up to today. What do you ladies think?


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## bubumaci

Um - I did absolutely no bed rest ;) The day of transfer went out for dinner with parents-in-law, the only "rest" I had was right after transfer at the clinic :)
I made sure to do my daily hypnosis - but other than that ... :)
I wasn't drinking coffee anyway (not a coffee drinker) - it is fine to have a cup or two, so don't worry about it :kiss:


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## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Thank you ladies, Mik, I would love to be bump buddies!
> We had three other blastocysts they froze. They are growing out three more another day to blastocysts, so we may have 6 total frosties. So that is some good news!

6 frosties is great! I hope they all develop well and freeze/thaw well. Yay! Now to wait 9 days to test. :wacko: :haha: :winkwink: How long do they want you on bedrest??


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## gem10

Thanks Mik, they say 48 hours. From what I have read every doctor is different. Today is it for me, its too nice out, I am going nuts! Did you have to do bedrest? My DH is off the next two weeks so we are going to try to go and have some fun and forget about this dreaded wait!!! How are you feeling?


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## rdleela

My pregnancy was natural and a surprise, so no bed rest here! I drank regular coffee up until 16dpo when I found out I was pregnant, then switched to de-caf, I did everything normal as can be until that positive test!


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## Mikihob

gem10 said:


> Thanks Mik, they say 48 hours. From what I have read every doctor is different. Today is it for me, its too nice out, I am going nuts! Did you have to do bedrest? My DH is off the next two weeks so we are going to try to go and have some fun and forget about this dreaded wait!!! How are you feeling?

I didn't have to, but I did take it easy the day of the IUI and the day after. My IUI was a Friday and Sunday DH and I finished cleaning out the garage and putting all our "junk" into the shed we built LAST summer. :haha: I wonder if they put you on bedrest due to your OHSS. 

I am feeling pretty good. No symptom spotting....yet. :winkwink: No cramping other than a general dull ache and standard Clomid symptoms. The only difference compared the previous tries is that my breasts aren't as sore and my fatigue isn't that bad- although it's coming back with a vengeance and bringing dizzyness with it. :wacko:

How are you feeling? I agree that you two should get out and enjoy the sunshine. It's been unusually rainy this summer so we don't have much. Yesterday was super bright, sunny and hot but I had a hot flash while I was outside and thought I might die of heat stroke. :rofl: THEN, we had a terrible thunder storm. :dohh: I hope you can get out an about and enjoy yourself and each other. :hugs: :hugs:


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## Stinas

gem - no bed rest for me...i just made it a lazy day the day of the transfer. Next day I was on my feet working 16hrs.


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## gem10

Huh, its so weird. My clinic puts everyone on bedrest for 48 hours. I didnt really follow it this time. Stayed in bed day 1 and half of day 2 then went to grocery store with DH. Today I took my dogs for a nice, slow, long walk. Felt soooo good to get out of the house. 

Mik I am trying hard not to symptom spot. I did it my last two cycles and the only thing I tracked was my period, lol. I have had cramps today, but these meds do crazy things. So I am going to be kind to myself and just blame it all on the meds this time and I try not to think too far into things. Much easier said than done though!


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## MBABY2014

Good luck Gem and Mik!

The 15th is going to be a positive day! I have my 20 week 'big' anatomy scan and find out baby's gender!!

Let's get some positive vibes for you ladies!!
Xo


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## Mikihob

gem I totally agree. Every time I get gas or something- "ooh, a light cramp- implantation?" :haha: I am blaming everything on Clomid. My mom said she never spotted, just missed a period BUT, I still check for spotting when I wipe, just in case. :winkwink: 

MBABY that is so exciting! :happydance: Gender scan! I can't wait to know the gender!! Do you have any guesses/suspicions? Preferences (of course a healthy baby is the preference but :winkwink: )? 

As for me- fatigue is here and I now have a cold. :wacko: Is it the 15th yet? :haha:


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## bubumaci

Hmmm ... fatigue + a cold ... I like the sound of that (not, because you are feeling poorly ... but ... I have good feeling ;) )...

MBaby - that is exciting - can't wait to hear! Do you have any guesses? :)

Miki - as for symptoms - apart from OHSS flaring up seriously after implantation - I really don't think I had any ... :)


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## gem10

Mbaby, I have a feeling it is going to be a great day! Can't wait to hear the gender!

Bub, I am glad to hear that because I feel 100% normal. My bloating even went down. I did notice I have been incredibly thirsty though. I doubt that means anything, lol, but who knows!

Mik, I love your countdown! It is helping me get along too! Lets hope it goes quickly. Thinking of ya!


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## Rainbow123

Oooh MBABY, how exciting! Can't wait to hear the results! XXX


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## tulip11

hi
i got a question the other day i was doing some research on ivf/icsi so i found out that girls ratio is much higher than boys in this case so is it true ? because on other forum i was reading so many women had boys so i was thinking lemme post it here and check out what the future mums says :)


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## babadespls

Hi Ladies, 

I've been very quiet but following the board, nice to see so much happening :)

My husband and I went on a nice holiday, it was just what we needed, ate what we wanted, drank what we wanted :drunk: and just had such a great time, never mentioned azoo once and just enjoyed every moment.

Now we are back to reality, back to eating well and living healthy, and have scheduled his SSR for the 19th of August, so I am very nervous and trying not to over think it or go google-mad on the statistics as that just make me so anxious. Just really really hoping for some positive results. This is my very last chance here of ever having a baby, as my hub is not for donor at all, so so much is riding on this. :cry:


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## Mikihob

babadespls I hope the SSR goes well and that you can get great results. IF you don't get good results, after DH has a chance to grieve not being able to have bio babies, he very well might come around. I have talked to many women who's hubbys were dead against it but as soon as they found out it was there only chance....they actually thought about it. My DH was the same. Completely against it and kinda pissed that my doctor even brought it up. He ranted and raved the whole way home. I had already known it might come to that due to my research. :wacko: Once he realized it's DS or nothing- he concluded that the baby is his baby and no one can take that away or change it. I will say prayers that you get some great swimmers and won't have to worry about it. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


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## Miraclbaby

babadespls said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> I've been very quiet but following the board, nice to see so much happening :)
> 
> My husband and I went on a nice holiday, it was just what we needed, ate what we wanted, drank what we wanted :drunk: and just had such a great time, never mentioned azoo once and just enjoyed every moment.
> 
> Now we are back to reality, back to eating well and living healthy, and have scheduled his SSR for the 19th of August, so I am very nervous and trying not to over think it or go google-mad on the statistics as that just make me so anxious. Just really really hoping for some positive results. This is my very last chance here of ever having a baby, as my hub is not for donor at all, so so much is riding on this. :cry:

Hey ladies. Hope you are doing well. May I ask what SSR is? I ve never geard of it.


----------



## bubumaci

tulip11 said:


> hi
> i got a question the other day i was doing some research on ivf/icsi so i found out that girls ratio is much higher than boys in this case so is it true ? because on other forum i was reading so many women had boys so i was thinking lemme post it here and check out what the future mums says :)

Yes, there is something to it. More often than not with IVF the ratio of boys to girls is higher and then when fertilising via ICSI, the girl number goes up. There reasoning behind has to do with the "fact" (presumption) that boy sperm swim faster but are not as resilient as girl sperm, and girl sperm live longer. So for example in natural conception, the longer before ovulation one has sex, the higher the likelihood, that the "winner" will be a girl - if you have sex around ovulation, it is more likely to be a boy.
With IVF, the boys have the upper hand, because they are faster and stronger over a short period of time and so usually manage to fertilise the egg faster. With ICSI, there is no natural selection, so the chances of it being a girl goes up :)

Of course it won't always be the case : we are having a baby boy and he was created via ICSI :) :cloud9:


----------



## MBABY2014

Hi ladies!!
Since day 1- I have always thought boy!!
We are doings gender reveal cake party Sunday, so we will all have to wait till then!

As for symptons- none except a weird throat thing!
Gem- a good friend of mine said she knew she was bc she was sooooo thirsty with both pregsnancies!

Excited for both you ladies! Hoping this is your months gem and Mik!!
&#55357;&#56856;&#55357;&#56856;&#55357;&#56856;


----------



## gem10

Bab, I wisb you all the luck in the world. I can say that it took a while for both of us to come to terms with DS. The first two m TESE they found sperm, so when they didnt find anything this last time, it was devastating. But I agree with Mik, with time your DH may change his mind, because suddenly the desirefor a child overpowers its genetics. However, I really pray you dont have to make that decision

Bub, I never knew that about the genders with IVF. It makes me a little nervous because my DH really wants a girl, he thinks it would be easier for him. But I guess we will take things as they come. First I gotta be pregnant, lol.

Mbaby, thanks for sharing about your friend! That gives me a lot of hope!!!! 

Mik, 6 days to go! How are you holding up?


----------



## Mikihob

gem I am holding up pretty good. I still have a stuffy/slightly runny nose, my throat is still scratchy. The weird part is that the cold hasn't really progressed past that. :shrug: Other than that same Clomid symptoms I always have. I am trying really hard not to test early, but who's knows if I can hold out. :haha:

How are you doing? Will you be able to wait to test? 

My DH wants girls, partly because he thinks boys are crazy, since our nephews are, and partly because he says at least they will look like me. I think it has more to do with him being a dork than the DS part. :thumbup: So. basically we will end up with loads of boys. :rofl:


----------



## gem10

Well, glad your cold isnt getting worse. I hope its a good sign, I have heard of that before!!!

AFM, I had a scare today. My nurse told meI need to "go in" so to speak and clean out the progesterone because it can clump and get nasty. When I did that in the shower today there was traces of brown blood. Sorry if this is TMI, but it totally freaked me out. Last time I thought it was implantation bleeding but it was my period. I am trying not to panic,but blood is not a good sign to me. I have stayed calm all day, no tears, and told my DH it is what it is, all we can do is wait. 

I would love to test early, but my DH is totally against it. So annoying!!! I told him I am testing on Thursday at least, but now I am just praying I dont see anymore blood before then. Last time I got my period on Wednesday, two days before my test date, so if I make it past that I will be happy. Such a rollercoaster, the longest two weeks of my life!!!!!!


----------



## tulip11

hi
I heard that in women under 35 there is usually transfer of one embryo is it true ? and secondly at time of transfer do they know whether it turns out to be male or female ? plus if someone wants two embryos to be transferred so is it possible ? thirdly we will get out first ivf appointment letter in about 4 weeks almost one week is gone and according to gynecologist in first appointment they will discuss the things and you guys will get registered so roughly from the time of first appointment how much time approx it takes in uk as its our first free attempt giving by nhs till the end if its gonna to be successful and if we find some sperms ? I am sorry i asked too much but as i am getting closer to ivf process i am getting so excited somewhere feeling that may be we will be parents to beautiful child who knows and at same time getting nervous too plus tbh waiting for appointment letter is hard by its own way everytime i look at the way of postman when he will arrive i dont know whether this type of craziness is okay in our situation or not but nowadays i am going crazy ..


----------



## gem10

Well girls, I think I am out. I have cramps and pink spotting. Feeling devastated.

Mik, I hope you have a successful cycle, I will keep praying for you.


----------



## tulip11

gem10 said:


> Well girls, I think I am out. I have cramps and pink spotting. Feeling devastated.
> 
> Mik, I hope you have a successful cycle, I will keep praying for you.

I am so sorry hun who knows may be its IB ? dont get discourage just keep an eye on your spotting . xoxo :hugs:


----------



## deafgal01

Gem- unless that spotting turns full flow, you're not out just yet! Keep your chin up.


----------



## babadespls

Miraclbaby said:


> babadespls said:
> 
> 
> Hi Ladies,
> 
> I've been very quiet but following the board, nice to see so much happening :)
> 
> My husband and I went on a nice holiday, it was just what we needed, ate what we wanted, drank what we wanted :drunk: and just had such a great time, never mentioned azoo once and just enjoyed every moment.
> 
> Now we are back to reality, back to eating well and living healthy, and have scheduled his SSR for the 19th of August, so I am very nervous and trying not to over think it or go google-mad on the statistics as that just make me so anxious. Just really really hoping for some positive results. This is my very last chance here of ever having a baby, as my hub is not for donor at all, so so much is riding on this. :cry:
> 
> Hey ladies. Hope you are doing well. May I ask what SSR is? I ve never geard of it.Click to expand...

S

Surgical sperm retrieval


----------



## rdleela

Awhhhhh Gem, I'm so sorry about the pink spotting; I've been there, it is totally devastating, and hard to remain hopeful. We'll stay hopeful for you! xoxo


----------



## Rainbow123

Oh Gem, I hope it's not AF. Sending you lots of love XXXXX

Babadespis - Since finding out about azoo, you guys have got moving pretty quickly, so maybe your DH just needs more time to come to terms with DS. We had to wait a year and a quarter to have our mTESE, so by that time DH had come round to DS, however when we were 8 months in, like you are now, he was still very against the idea. Hopefully you won't need to go down the DS route, but if the SSR isn't successful, he could still come round. Good luck for the 19th lovely! XXX

MBABY - The suspense is killing me! Hope your baby gender reveal goes well! X


----------



## BumpHopes

Hi everyone,

I havent posted or been on here for a while - needed a bit of a break- but I just wanted to wish everyone the best of luck i can see theres alot going on with everyone right now.

Quick question for you. Has anyone tried IUI with DS before IVF with DS? If so did it work? I have an option to try that first in December this year, just not sure cause there doesnt seem to be many succeses with IUI (or i might just be reading the wrong threads lol)

Thank you! x x


----------



## deafgal01

I've had 2 tries with IUI with DS and haven't had any luck so far. But that could be related to the count not being high enough or something, Idk. The first sample didn't have an ideal count that should be there when thawed, so we combined 2 for the 2nd IUI which was slightly better but still had no luck. I've been taking a break from the whole fertility trying since that time as it made me mentally insane and depressed. Might be different for you, it seems to vary from person to person.


----------



## BumpHopes

deafgal01 said:


> I've had 2 tries with IUI with DS and haven't had any luck so far. But that could be related to the count not being high enough or something, Idk. The first sample didn't have an ideal count that should be there when thawed, so we combined 2 for the 2nd IUI which was slightly better but still had no luck. I've been taking a break from the whole fertility trying since that time as it made me mentally insane and depressed. Might be different for you, it seems to vary from person to person.

Thank you for telling me your experience - i'm not sure what to do. sorry you've been having a difficult time. This is hell, i wouldn't wish it on anyone. I hope it gets easier x x


----------



## MBABY2014

Gem...nooooo...it seems very early to be getting your p? What day are you?

I def had some cramps and thought my p was coming..but just never did..
Is it increasing or was just a few spots?

Rainbow- reveal not till
Next Sunday..1 more week of suspense


----------



## deafgal01

Also, Gem keep in mind, as long that brown stuff stays brown or not a lot of it, i'd still stay you're in the game still.



Just venting- my last first day of af was 36 cycle days ago. I still have not started anything today yet. I've tried using sex and I've relaxed, and I've drank a little wine the past two days and still nada... My af cycles used to be like 30 days on the dot and predictable but this whole year (ever since I tried some drugs to help with the IUI treatment in Oct/Nov last year) it's been wacky ever since, like shorter or longer, and not predictable anymore. Idk what I'll do. I don't think there's any chance I could be pregnant at all- it's not possible with a diagnosis of azoospermia.


----------



## gem10

MBaby it started yesterday, 5dp5dt, today is day 6. It has remained just light pink all day, and up until an hour ago only when I wiped, but I just had to go buy pads, but still small amount of pink. But this is what happened last time, I spotted on day 7 and by day 9 it was AF.

I just dont get it. It was a perfect AA hatching embryo into embryo glue. Whats wrong with me, why cant I get pregnant?


----------



## deafgal01

:hugs: Gem It's just not fair is it? We all have to go thru this diagnosis and then struggle to get our babies. It's not fair at all.


----------



## gem10

Its awful deafgal. My 16 year old niece just announced she is pregnant, my DHs brothers daughter. Seriously? His brother will be a grandpa before he is a father. Not that I would want to be pregnant as a teen, but it seems its so easy for everyone around me. I cant take it anymore!!


----------



## deafgal01

agreed gem!


----------



## MBABY2014

Uchhhh I wish I had an answer for you, I will be thinking of you

I guess, If this is not your cycle- you do have frosties waiting for you, so the process will be easier.

My only advice I guess would be to try 2 embryos this time and maybe some acupuncture??


----------



## bubumaci

:( Gem, I am sorry - but don't start losing hope yet!!
There is no rhyme or reason to it! If you think about how many fertilised eggs we transferred and only one resulted in a baby, it becomes just more and more apparent, what a miracle conception and pregnancy is! (Something I always knew and was in wonder of - but this journey has just made it that much more clear).
Sadly, as good as the embryos can look from the outside, we just don't know what is going on on the inside. And that *doesn't* mean there is something wrong with you!!!
Two cells (sperm + egg) join and more often than not, the fusing may result in abnormal chromosomes. What may look like normal development (perfect blast etc.) says nothing about the inside and why the embryo stops developing - but that is nature.
And there is nothing more painful, that struggling to get pregnant and seeing people left right and centre seemingly getting pregnant just by breathing. (My Father and his wife adopted two girls when I was 18 - they were 6 and 10 at the time. The younger one had her first child at 19 - not together with the Father - and her second at 23 - different Father, not together with him)... BIL + SIL were married August 2012 ... just a few months of trying and bang - pregnant - baby boy born November last year.

Unfortunately, for so many of us in this AI game, it is just a question of time, patience, and money. You just have to believe, that it will happen - or at some point (I guess I would even call it a breaking point) have to accept that it may not. To be very honest, I still can't believe that there is a little Pünktchen inside of me! After all the tries we went through, the outlook was so bleak and at the beginning of the year I had said - I will be 40 next year. If we are not pregnant by the end of the year, then we are giving up. It broke my heart to say it - but I didn't want our lives, our love to suffer as a result of this horrific diagnosis. And although becoming a Mother, or the idea of becoming a Mother was something that kept me going through a lot of crap (split family etc. etc.) for the bigger part of my life : having a family, together, one that I could influence and keep happy ... I also realised that I have an incredible man at my side, who is equally distraught by the blow that fate has dealt him, and at some point, we have to live in the here and now and look at our future. I honestly don't know how I would have gone about reconciling with giving up ... but I firmly believe you are far from that point and if you can, muster up the strength to keep positive, to keep believing, I think it makes a big difference, if you can keep up a positive mental attitude!

In the meantime, I am sending you huge hugs and hoping, that the pink you are seeing is just uterine irritation!! <3 :kiss:


----------



## tulip11

Today one lady which is mutual friend she told me that your hubby fsh is high which is 13.2 and there is no chance to find sperm and this truly disappointed me and on way back to home I cried a lot and for a while everything seemed so useless to me all the hopes which I had gone for a second. Now i am feeling so low and thinking if we can't find sperm then what will happen? :(


----------



## bubumaci

Sweetie - I would honestly tell you : cross that bridge if and when you should come to it. (I am an absolute master of worrying about things that I a) don't know if they will ever happen and b) way in advance, i.e. far too prematurely - so I probably should take my own advice). I can understand how very upset her utterance has made you... but this was not a statement given by a doctor / the clinic / person treating you and DH. Let them do their jobs, see what can be done.
The truth is - it may happen. It may happen that a SSR is performed and they cannot find anything useful (happened to my DH in the February try - we were just very lucky, that spring 2012 a miracle happened and they were able to freeze quite a bit of sperm from an ejaculation after 6 weeks of taking Tamoxifen ... other tries, they found just enough in the ejaculate to be able to do ICSI - this year in Feb, the TESE resulted in nothing and so they used some of the frozen samples). There is never a guarantee. There is never a guarantee that IUI, IVF, ICSI, IMSI will work. There is never a guarantee that healthy couples will be able to get pregnant naturally ...
Sadly, what should be the most natural thing in the world - reproduction - seems to be fraught with difficulties; for some, more than for others.

But my advice to you would be to a) be aware, that it may happen - it may be the case that they find nothing ... b) be aware, that they may find something and c) try not to worry about what you will do if the SSR does not work. You and DH will have some talking to do - together, together with your fertility specialist - and you will just have to cross that bridge if and when you come to it. But don't worry about unhatched eggs yet. You have no idea what is just around the corner and worrying will not do you (or DH) any good. This journey is such an unbelievably difficult one! But I firmly believe that being positive, trying to keep positive feelings, allowing yourself to be down, have a cry, let it out - but then also try to put it behind you and then look forward to the next steps is incredibly important so that you keep your sanity and don't lose yourself.
:hugs::kiss:


----------



## tulip11

bubumaci said:


> Sweetie - I would honestly tell you : cross that bridge if and when you should come to it. (I am an absolute master of worrying about things that I a) don't know if they will ever happen and b) way in advance, i.e. far too prematurely - so I probably should take my own advice). I can understand how very upset her utterance has made you... but this was not a statement given by a doctor / the clinic / person treating you and DH. Let them do their jobs, see what can be done.
> The truth is - it may happen. It may happen that a SSR is performed and they cannot find anything useful (happened to my DH in the February try - we were just very lucky, that spring 2012 a miracle happened and they were able to freeze quite a bit of sperm from an ejaculation after 6 weeks of taking Tamoxifen ... other tries, they found just enough in the ejaculate to be able to do ICSI - this year in Feb, the TESE resulted in nothing and so they used some of the frozen samples). There is never a guarantee. There is never a guarantee that IUI, IVF, ICSI, IMSI will work. There is never a guarantee that healthy couples will be able to get pregnant naturally ...
> Sadly, what should be the most natural thing in the world - reproduction - seems to be fraught with difficulties; for some, more than for others.
> 
> But my advice to you would be to a) be aware, that it may happen - it may be the case that they find nothing ... b) be aware, that they may find something and c) try not to worry about what you will do if the SSR does not work. You and DH will have some talking to do - together, together with your fertility specialist - and you will just have to cross that bridge if and when you come to it. But don't worry about unhatched eggs yet. You have no idea what is just around the corner and worrying will not do you (or DH) any good. This journey is such an unbelievably difficult one! But I firmly believe that being positive, trying to keep positive feelings, allowing yourself to be down, have a cry, let it out - but then also try to put it behind you and then look forward to the next steps is incredibly important so that you keep your sanity and don't lose yourself.
> :hugs::kiss:

Thanks thanks alot for such great support.Yes you are very right . I am truly thankful to all you beautiful ladies out there who are here to support each other. My prayers are always with you guys . xoxoxoxxoxoxoxoxoxxo:hugs::hugs::hugs:


----------



## babadespls

tulip11 said:


> Today one lady which is mutual friend she told me that your hubby fsh is high which is 13.2 and there is no chance to find sperm and this truly disappointed me and on way back to home I cried a lot and for a while everything seemed so useless to me all the hopes which I had gone for a second. Now i am feeling so low and thinking if we can't find sperm then what will happen? :(

Hi Tulip, 

I have done so much research on this topic, and there are many different opinions, but the newest research suggests that elevated FSH doesn't have any accurate prediction if there is sperm production or not, before fertility specialists wouldn't perform a SSR on anyone with elevated FSH and now they do, I read about trial where they found usable spermatozoa in a mans testicles whose FSH levels was in the 60's, and was used in a successful pregnancy with a live birth. 

I'm not giving you or me false hope, I'm just saying it is possible, it has been recorded, it has happened and maybe we will be one of those lucky ones.

Oh and also older research suggests that one has a lower chance of finding usable sperm if FSH is higher than 20, under 20 and you have a better chance.


----------



## arzoo

tulip11 said:


> Hi
> If we want to go on private route as I am thinking of Dr Ramsey what would be the procedure as NHS is giving us free first attempt? Do we have to tell them that we want to go through private or if we mention the desired Dr name so they will refer us?

Hi Tulip,

I dont know if someone has already responded to your question, just catching up on the posts as I have been away for couple of weeks.

We used Ramsey, but privately. We had the option to use MR Ramsey via NHS but that is because Mr Ramsey practises in the fertility clinic where we were referred to.

We still went ahead privately, as NHS has a lot of limitations, we wanted to have a synchronised cycle and that was not possible via NHS.


----------



## deafgal01

Tulip,

That lady was rude to say such a thing. The ladies in here have brought up valid evidence based on research we know of. That lady did not know what she was talking about obviously! :hugs: people can really say the most inappropriate things sometimes!


----------



## tulip11

deafgal01 said:


> Tulip,
> 
> That lady was rude to say such a thing. The ladies in here have brought up valid evidence based on research we know of. That lady did not know what she was talking about obviously! :hugs: people can really say the most inappropriate things sometimes!

yes and I have seen people like her who got pregnant easily so they dont care about others pain they think getting pregnant is so easy . They dont care how their words can hurt others. Infact my SIL recently gave birth to baby boy she was saying the other day that getting pregnant is such horrible thing and I am fed up of getting pregnant everytime its this and that so me and my hubby were sitting there that time so that time we both were thinking that you are fed up and we are struggling to get this blessing. She and those who get pregnant so easily are so blessed but they are so ungrateful for what they have. They should ask those like us who are waiting for this precious moment .


----------



## gem10

Bub, thank youfor your kind words. What you said really makes sense. I am not ready to give up yet. I called my RE this morning bc AF came last night...that bitch!! Lol. Hopefully we can start FET right away.

MBABY I have been doing accupuncture for a long time now. The only reason we did a single embryo transfer is bc I have a bicornurate uterus so if I were to get pregnant with twins it could cause serious problems down the road. With DHs embryos it wasnt as big of an issue because we knew the embryos werent as strong so the chances of multiples were very low. 

So looks like third time wasnt a charm, so looking toward number four.

TulipI wouldnt listen to any advice from people who are not going through this or a medical profesional. I have gotten sooo much "advice" from people about getting pregnant when they hardly know what IVF is. The bottom line is you wont know until the surgery is done whether there are sperm or not. Its stinks to have to wait, trust me I know,, but stay strong and stay positive as much as possible!


----------



## arzoo

Tulip regarding elevated FSH and any other sort of research , I agree with what the ladies have said here. All my DH blood tests and results gave us no hope. We were given percentage success rate of 10 %. which is very low apparently. When these numbers were not favourable for me I just chose to ignore them. When they are favourable I cling on to them as a ray of hope. 
Despite all these low percentages and changes of success, we found sperms (mTese) and I am now pregnant 5 months with twins. Hope my experience gives you hope. After all its hope that keeps us wanting to try and push ahead despite all these adversities


----------



## tulip11

arzoo said:


> Tulip regarding elevated FSH and any other sort of research , I agree with what the ladies have said here. All my DH blood tests and results gave us no hope. We were given percentage success rate of 10 %. which is very low apparently. When these numbers were not favourable for me I just chose to ignore them. When they are favourable I cling on to them as a ray of hope.
> Despite all these low percentages and changes of success, we found sperms (mTese) and I am not pregnant 5 months with twins. Hope my experience gives you hope. After all its hope that keeps us wanting to try and push ahead despite all these adversities

Congrats have a H&H 9 months :) thanks for such a lovely reply :hugs:


----------



## rdleela

Gem, my fresh failed cycle ended exactly as yours did - early pink spotting for a couple of days that turned into AF...I had really high estrogen levels before transfer, but no OHSS. I believe that my uterus wasn't ready or willing to accept an embryo at that time...my second cycle after that IVF is when I got pregnant naturally - at the time of IVF I was thoroughly disappointed in my body, but after I got pregnant I knew it was because of the high estrogen levels in my IVF process the embryos didn't stick. We'll be doing IVF again next summer, and if my estrogen goes sky-high again, I'll be telling them to freeze ALL my embryos for a FET instead of doing a fresh.

I hope a FET, after your body gets a little break, will be your ticket!


----------



## gem10

Well ladies my RE let me go have my beta today rather than prolong it to Friday. The sooner they get the negative, the sooner we can start our next step. This sucks!!!! But DH are on our way to the beach and when I get that call I will be going for a cocktail...theres always a silver lining I guess!


----------



## Mikihob

*Tulip* as far as I know (from reading and talking to others) some doctors like to put in one to decrease odds of multiples, but some doctors will put in two if asked. If you have a super high chance of conception they might only opt for one, but if you have fertility problems and are doing ICSI, etc, they might want to put 2 in. I know some doctors now are trying increase the odds with one egg to avoid multiples and some insurance companies even offer special financing if you opt for only one egg to get put in. 

*gem* I am so, so sorry AF started. Watch some funny brain cell killing movies. :haha: I am here for you as the other ladies are too. I was really hoping and praying you got your BFP. I love that you are keeping your chin up and getting ready for an FET. Your OHSS could have caused an issue with proper implantation so maybe this FET will do the trick. :hugs: My eldest step-daughter is in the process of a divorce and a terrible custody battle for her daughter. She starts dating this guy and about 1-2 months later she takes out her birth control. Now she is about 8 weeks pregnant. Two dads, two babies AND she might lose her daughter to her ex because of her eccentric behavior. I feel your frustration with everyone else getting pregnant and popping out babies. 

*BumpHopes* I am currently in the TWW with DS IUI. I chose to go this route first, since I had pretty good chances. If its a BFN, I move onto DS IVF. 

*MBABY* youre killing me. KILLING ME! 1 week. Its like the TWW is even longer! :winkwink: 

*Deafgal* if it doesnt come back you should test just in case, and if nothing still, you might need a progesterone treatment to get it started. Maybe even BCP for a month if you think the drugs messed up your hormones. I hope AF comes soon. Its so frustrating that some months (most) you want AF to stay away and then she shows up, then those months you want her, shes nowhere to be found. How rude! :hugs:

I hope I caught everyone. :hugs: to you all!!


----------



## deafgal01

Get that drink gem!

And a drink for this lady! The dumb af finally showed a week late!


----------



## Mikihob

deafgal I am glad AF showed finally, sorry she was so mean to be late.


----------



## bubumaci

Yay for the :witch: ... glad that she has finally arrived and you can move forward. Crazy isn't it - when you don't want her to come, in she flies and when you want her to come, she takes her time ...


----------



## MBABY2014

Gem- major bummer but so glad you are feeling positive and ready to move on!!

My fresh did not work- but my FET did! Hoping you have the same luck!

I didn't know about your uterus- makes sense to only put in 1 now!!


Mik- how you feeling??

A zoo- when are you due?

Redella- gettung close girl!! How you feeling??


----------



## Rainbow123

BumpHopes - We tried IUI with DS before IVF and it worked for us. We were incredibly lucky because it worked first time! The chances of it working are roughly 1 in 5. Our plan was to try 3 unmedicated IUIs (triggered with a shot of Pregnyl to make sure the egg was released to coincide with the IUI), then 3 medicated IUIs (which has an increased chance of multiples) before doing IVF, however the FS was pretty optimistic we wouldn't need to go down IVF route. I can recommend giving it a go, but only if you are going to be closely monitored by having the growth of your follicles tracked, plus triggering your egg release with a shot of Pregnyl to make sure everything is in the right place at the right time. 
XXX


----------



## Mikihob

MBABY I am feeling ok. Cold is still here, just a stuffy nose and sore throat- never really progressed into a death cold. :haha: I am fatigued, have severe headaches and mild cramping. Off and on it feels similar to AF and then it feels different. I am trying to sleep longer and take little naps, cough drops for the sore throat and laying down when the headache gets bad. I have a couple days left until testing and want it to be here now!! :winkwink:


----------



## melissaelaine

Hi all! Just got an update from my DH about his appointment. Results aren't great. Details are in my journal, but the takeaway is that his numbers were back down. 4 non-motile sperm. So, it is looking like we'll be moving forward with my cycle and doing tese.


----------



## Mikihob

I am sorry that the results weren't as hoped melissa. :hugs: Do you have a date for the tese??


----------



## gem10

Wishing you good luck tomorrow Mik!

AFM I went for my appt today. It took everything I had not to cry while I was there. Theu say my bicornorate uterus could be affecting implantation. So we have our FET scheduled for Sept 12th. We have to decids on one or two to transfer, and I really dont know what to do. Two increases the odds that it will work, but if they both take they could be at risk in my uterus. Ugh....thoughts ladies?


----------



## melissaelaine

Mikihob said:


> I am sorry that the results weren't as hoped melissa. :hugs: Do you have a date for the tese??

Thanks, Miki. The plan is to do it the same day as ER. They want to avoid losing anything they get by freezing it.


----------



## MBABY2014

Mik- good luck!!

Gem- honestkt- I would go with the doctors recommendation..they know best..Sept 12 is close! Excited 4 u!! Ahh FET are so much easier


----------



## bubumaci

Melissa, I am so sorry that the results weren't what you were hoping for! My fingers will be tightly crossed, that the TESE is successful!! When will you start stimming / expect to have the ER? :hugs2:

Miki - just a few more hours, I am on tenterhooks ... :dust::dust::dust: :kiss:


----------



## Rainbow123

Melissa - Sorry that the results weren't what you were hoping for, but hopefully there are some super little spermies waiting to be collected in September!

Gem - That must have been really hard to hear. I agree with MBABY, that you should go with the doctor's advice. My initial thought was that if it would be a risk to carry two, due to the way things are, it might be best just to put one back, but those doctors do know best and will hopefully be able to advise you on what would happen if they both stuck. 

Sending you both lots of love and hugs :hugs: XXXXX

XXX


----------



## Mikihob

gem as rainbow said, if its risky to put in two, than I would just put in one. It would probably be best to talk to your doc about the risks and what the outcome would/could be. :hugs: FET is coming up. Yay! :happydance: 

BFN ladies. :cry: I should start spotting today and full flow tomorrow. I cried for a long time this morning and made DH late for work. I will probably cry A LOT today. I thought for sure the timing was better on this one. 

My next step is birth control for a couple months and saving some money for IVF. We plan to take a 401K loan as opposed to a distribution since it's way cheaper and we don't pay huge taxes on it. Not sure when that will happen but will definitely keep you posted. Now to buy donor IVF sperm. :dohh: :haha: :winkwink:


----------



## gem10

Mik I am sooo sorry this cycle didnt work. I was truly rooting for you. This process is so grueling. Take your time to cry and get it all out. I feel your pain whole heartedly. Its moments like this I wish we all lived close to one another so I could take you for a drink or anything to comfort you. We are here for you through this, so always remember you are not alone.


----------



## Olive333

Miki - I'm so sorry. I haven't been posting anything since there's nothing new with me, but I was following you and hoping for a positive.

Take take time to grieve.

Gem - Good luck with you FET.


----------



## melissaelaine

So sorry, Mik!! I was hoping this was it for you!


----------



## MBABY2014

Arrrrr- so sorry Mik..why BC thought? To regulate?


----------



## Mikihob

MBABY my PCOS symptoms have gotten out of control and the Clomid hasn't helped. The only thing that has ever actually kept my symptoms under control and helped me actually lose weight and have normal periods is BC. I am hoping that it will get my body back to "normal" having monthly periods to hopefully increase my chances at IVF success.


----------



## MBABY2014

Ok!! Got it!!

Good luck and enjoy some cocktails tonight!


----------



## gem10

My doctor is putting me on bc for 6 days. I personally dont get it. Based on my last period, my period would be due the day after they transfer. I dont know why they dont just do it to my body's regular cycle, rather than putting me on bc for a week?


----------



## MBABY2014

Hi gem
The transfer has to be 5-7 days past ovulation- meaning that day would be too late..I think that's why???


----------



## MBABY2014

Gender update!

Team BLUEEEEEEE!its a little boy!


----------



## melissaelaine

That's so exciting, MBABY!!

I am going to be chatting with the nurse today to get my meds ordered. This is getting real! I also realized last night that I haven't been taking my DHEA supplements like my doctor recommended. I was taking them regularly, then we put everything on hold because my DH was getting his stuff figured out and I completely forgot to start taking them. I am a little disappointed with myself, but am trying to tell myself it will not make or break this cycle. I am going to mention it to the nurse when I talk to her. Are any of you all taking DHEA?


----------



## Mikihob

MBABY congrats on team blue! Awesome! :happydance:


----------



## snd80

:happydance: Another azoo boy strikes again!!!!! :haha:

Congrats!!!! :hugs:


----------



## tulip11

MBABY2014 said:


> Gender update!
> 
> Team BLUEEEEEEE!its a little boy!

Woot woot that's great news congratulations :happydance::happydance::hugs:


----------



## Rainbow123

Eeeek MBABY that's so exciting! Yippeee! :-D XXXXX


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## bubumaci

Yaaaay - MBABY! Welcome to team :blue: :hugs: :kiss:


----------



## gem10

Congratulations MBaby!


----------



## Stinas

Mbaby yay!!! Congrats!!! 

I hope everyone is doing well!!! I feel like there is never enough time in the day to catch up fully!


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## arzoo

Congrats MBaby


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## babadespls

We just got back from the hospital and no sperm was found during the procedure, Our doctor came to me while hubby was in recovery and explained that the procedure was unsuccessful, he also took a biopsy to be sent to the pathologists for further investigation (histology).

I had to tell hubby that it wasn't a success when he woke up and he kept apologising to me about him been a "dud", as we got home he jumped into his car and off he went to work, even though the doctor said that he must stay home and not drive. I just think he doesn't want to think about it and will rather just plunge himself into business. I don't know what to do with him or what to say.

It took everything in me not to cry infront of him.

What does this mean? Is it the end of the road for us? What does histology mean?
What's the point of the biopsy?

(sorry for all these questions)


----------



## deafgal01

Sometimes they don't find sperms during biopsy but they check a small sample to make sure I guess.

I did not have to tell mine. The dr did the telling. Kinda surprised it fell upon u to be the one to tell him. Right now is the time you show your husband you love him regardless of having swimmers or not. You did not marry him for the swimmers, and he needs reminding of that.

As for end of road, for some yes and for some no. Some went straight to adoption from that point, some are still childless, and some succeeded to get their little one through donor sperms (either via IUI or ivf). It is a lot to think about but first grieve for the baby you two won't have together. Reconnect as a couple, counseling if you need it.


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## Miraclbaby

babadespls said:


> We just got back from the hospital and no sperm was found during the procedure, Our doctor came to me while hubby was in recovery and explained that the procedure was unsuccessful, he also took a biopsy to be sent to the pathologists for further investigation (histology).
> 
> I had to tell hubby that it wasn't a success when he woke up and he kept apologising to me about him been a "dud", as we got home he jumped into his car and off he went to work, even though the doctor said that he must stay home and not drive. I just think he doesn't want to think about it and will rather just plunge himself into business. I don't know what to do with him or what to say.
> 
> It took everything in me not to cry infront of him.
> 
> What does this mean? Is it the end of the road for us? What does histology mean?
> What's the point of the biopsy?
> 
> (sorry for all these questions)

I m sorry for the result :hugs: Give yourself time to recover from the shock and then think about adoption or Donor sperm.


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## MBABY2014

Thanks everyone!!

Babs- I don't want to give you false hope but the urologist that did my hubs procedure told me as he was still in recovery that chances were not great as there was not as much fluid as he would of liked and 'not to get my hopes up'- he then td me he sent a sample to lab to have it analyzed, an hour later he called saying there were some sperm but could not tell if they were living. At that point the whole same went to the doctors who look through the sperm ( I'm assuming what you are talking about- histology) and they called to tell us there were around 20 thousand... So stay positive and keep your head high..either way- you will have a baby!! If might not have hubby's genetics..but you can CAN have a family!


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## Stinas

babadespls - Sorry for those results! It truly sucks. I don't think its the end of the road for you! Our urologist came out and told me he found ONE sperm. He sent all the tissue to the IVF clinic for further review in which they found 4-6(can't remember exactly) vials full of sperm that can be used with IVF. 
This was the one and only TESE we did, which resulted in my twinkies who are talking away next to me as I type.


----------



## babadespls

Hi Ladies, Can I ask you all a question?

I'm not getting any younger, I have endometriosis, and just found out as you know that hub and I have no sperm to work with... he is against donor and adoption isn't really an option in my country. We have saved money for IVF / ICSI (as we have to pay cash for it here, no medical aid or national health covers it), is it crazy for me to go ahead with the treatment and have my eggs frozen?


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## bubumaci

babe - I am so sorry that the results weren't good! :hugs2:
At the very beginning, DH was also totally against Donor / Adoption. Just was not what he wanted, either his own genes, or not at all. After each try and what we went through, he saw what it meant and after the 6th try or so asked the doctor whether we would get different results with donor sperm (I was actually quite surprised, as he hadn't mentioned his change of attitude / thoughts to me) ...

Firstly, as Stinas and MBABY have said - see what the histology shows. Just because this TESE doesn't look good, doesn't have to mean the end of the road for you :hugs2:
Secondly - give DH time to come to terms with the diagnosis. His world has probably crashed around his feet right now. I keep getting the feeling that men deal with infertility much worse than women do (they are supposed to be the providers, the protectors, the ones whose lineage gets carried on) and it takes time for them to accept and move on to the next steps, when they are ready.
Being a parent isn't all about one's own genes (as nice as it is and was also definitely our preference and we were lucky that somehow, it worked with DH's sperm!), it is about being a parent and so many parents of children where one or both parents aren't the genetic donors feel just that way about their children ...

Last but not least - I don't think it is crazy at all! If you feel this is what you would like and need to do, then do it. You will always have the knowledge (no matter at what point further down the line it becomes current) that you do have the eggs there ... could also go ahead with fertility treatments later on with a fresh cycle, but would have the frozen ones to fall back on if you need to. We never know what curve-balls life and nature are going to toss our way ...
If you weren't to do it and you feel you really want to, you might regret it / resent the decision later. Definitely not crazy :hugs2: None of us is getting any younger ;)


----------



## babadespls

I am really thankful to all you ladies, it would be very lonely place in my head if I hadn't found this group :flower:


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## Mikihob

babadespls I am so sorry they didnt find any swimmers. You both need to take some time to grieve and accept that he doesnt have any. If you continue to let it build and build and build the sadness/anger will overrun your relationship. Be there for him, support him, love him. I dont think my DH could have dealt with it if I didnt make sure he knew I still loved him and didnt blame him. Every time we get a BFN he hurts just as bad as me and ALWAYS apologizes for having zero swimmers. I have to reassure him each time that I love him and I dont blame him. Once you two have grieved and are ready to talk about TTC again, he might be ready to discuss donor sperm and/or adoption. Sending love and hugs your way! :hugs:


----------



## Miraclbaby

Hello ladies,

Maybe this is worth sharing...https://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT02008799
steps towards stem cell to help men with azoo. I think this is the first trial with Humans. Egyptian doctors are looking for men with azoo for stem cell research. Producing stem cell from human skin and injecting into mice testis was also successful in the USA about a couple months ago.


----------



## SunUp

Just wanted to wish everyone well! I hope to be back in for FET for baby #2 soon, and I thought maybe I would share a few things that might help some of you 'newer' with the diagnosis, that have helped me, or have made this journey something I am thankful for.

The first is that infertility is a COUPLES disease, which you ladies understand SO well. I inform people all the time that it takes two people to have infertility. I always told DH it wasn't 'his' problem or 'my' problem. From day one, its been OUR diagnosis and WE grieved but then WE made the decisions that were best for us. We had success after a few failures, you can read about it in my signature/journal if you feel like it.

We have a beautiful child. Being a parent is something we will never take for granted. He looks like me, at this point, but he initially (and still, at times), looks like his daddy, my DH. _Ironically,_ we used DS. I was worried, at first, about what if he looked different or something, but really that happens to parents/kids all the time without fertility treatment. At this point, the whole DS thing barely even crosses my mind. We are a family. And I would not in a _million-billion-trillion_ (you get the point) years trade my son, or any part of him, for anything else. I am so blessed with him and if that means I am thankful for the route we went through to get him, well,* I completely am*.

Oh and one more thing. It is amazing how many people find out we used assisted reproduction and ask "what was wrong with you?" The same people that asked me when we were having kids (we kept our infertility private and didn't really tell people until a few months after our baby was born), asked all about my health and what my cycle was like. I have learned to ALWAYS say "oh WE don't really know, we are just grateful for our baby." And I completely ignore any follow up questions. [Yes, completely. Stare at them and walk away. I think it lets them know how rude it actually is, even though it wasn't intended that way.] 

I wish the best to you all. I do pop in occasionally to check on things, and see if my twin azoo 'nephews' (getting closer to due date!) and their momma are doing okay ;) - as well as see how everyone else is. Unfortunately I don't often have time to write/reply. I hope next time I write there are even more azoo babies on the way! :)


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## raelynn

Sunup - I just wanted to say, you explained it *perfectly*! I would not in a million years trade my daughter for anything either. I even understand now why we had this diagnosis. Had hubby not had azoo then we wouldn't have our daughter (from donor) and I cannot imagine my life without her.

Good luck to all you ladies. This journey is so tough and it is ongoing. Even trying for number 2 I thought would be easier since we knew what to expect but it is just as tough. So glad we have each other to get through it all.


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## Rainbow123

Beautifully put ladies! XXX


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## sharon99

It's been a while since I stopped by- I just wanted to say I'm so sorry, Miki & Gem. I'll have my fingers tightly crossed for your next steps.

babadespls, I'm so sorry you got that devastating news, AND that you had to be the one to tell DH! WTH! 

Mbaby, yaayyyyyy for a boy!!!

Thanks, SunUp, for your lovely post about DS. 

I feel like this is a pretty lame post I am writing! :) and it really doesn't convey that I am thinking of everyone and wishing everyone the best.


----------



## arzoo

Hello, how is everyone doing? Just thought of stopping by.

I dont know if I have previously posted this, if I am repeating, please ignore. but I thought it is important to share this. We were successful in finding sperms via mTese, and what we think helped is the tamoxifen and also the proxeed which my husband had for about 6 months or more. Initially he was supposed to have it for 3 months but as we took time to get few other things sorted out, it extended to 6 months. and we think the extended period also helped to move things in our favour.


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## babadespls

After not hearing anything from the clinic, I eventually resorted to writing a snotty email about the lack of communication regarding the biopsy results, only to get a reply from one of the doctors explaining that he called my husband and explained his results LAST WEEK TUESDAY!

He never told me! 

When I called him just now to ask what this is all about he said it slipped his mind. 

I cant even explain the anger and disappointment I am feeling.

The result is bad, he doesn't have the cells present that produce sperm.

I know its hard for him but I need us to communicate and he is building a brick wall, I have a right to know these things. 

I just can't pull myself together today.


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## bubumaci

Oh, Babe, I am so sorry!! Both for the results and also for the fact that DH blocked it all out and didn't tell you! :( Sending you huge hugs :hugs2:


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## MBABY2014

Sending love bab... I imagine it must be hard for him to hear it, but you guys are a team!! Thinking if you and please remember this is not the end! There are mNy other options


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## rdleela

Baba, I'm so sorry for you and your husband on your test results; it's definitely not the end of the road for you guys! But wow, you better be sitting down and having a long, deep conversation about why he didn't tell you about the doctors call; is he really distraught over the outcome, or is it just bad communication? Best wishes...


----------



## babadespls

rdleela said:


> Baba, I'm so sorry for you and your husband on your test results; it's definitely not the end of the road for you guys! But wow, you better be sitting down and having a long, deep conversation about why he didn't tell you about the doctors call; is he really distraught over the outcome, or is it just bad communication? Best wishes...

Hi Rdleela, 

I did have a long convo about why he didn't tell me, and he said he was waiting for the right moment, I asked him if he thinks that this was the best outcome (me sending the mail and Dr responding etc) and no and that he said that he is very sorry. Its too new to discuss other options but I am looking for a councillor to help us.


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## deafgal01

That is good you are getting a counselor. Make sure the counselor is experienced in infertility stuff. I had one as a requirement before I could do any IUI and she helped us think everything through.


----------



## Deb111

Hi ladies

I cannot believe how long it has been since I've been on B'n'B!! I've logged in a few times, desperately trying to catch up on pages and pages as I didn't want to miss anyone's news, but it's just impossible - so I've decided to admit defeat and just come and say "hi". 

It's lovely to see some snippets of fantastic news as I scanned briefly through - babies and pregnancies but also so sad to see so many new members. However, as we've said many times before - it's wonderful to know that you have found this group and have somewhere to come for support; somewhere where people really understand what you're feeling.

As for a quick update on me (I will put more in my journal when I get a chance for those who want to read more)

- Aimee has just turned 22 months! I can't believe we're planning her 2nd birthday!!! This year has gone SO fast! She is doing great and continues to amaze me every day.

- Hubby is back on the anastrazole and we have made the decision to try one more time for a sibling for Aimee. It has been a very hard decision on so many levels, but before this whole azoo thing, we never planned to have an only child. She would be such a great big sister and we know that if we don't give it a go, we will regret it later down the line. We're looking at EC in Nov sometime at the moment, but (easy to say at this stage of the proceedings!) this will be our one and only cycle because of our age, finances and the fact that I don't want a big chunk of Aimee's childhood overshadowed by us being swallowed up by all this again. If we are lucky again, then it was meant to be and we will be over the moon. If it doesn't work, then we can look at Aimee, knowing we gave it our best shot, and know that we were more lucky than we ever imagined we could be!

I think about you all often and would love it if you would PM me a couple of sentences giving an update of where you're at. I will add it to the front page (and it will also get me up to speed with you all! :winkwink: )

I really am so thrilled that a group I started with just 2 or 3 of us, has turned into the incredibly supportive place that it clearly still continues to be :kiss:


----------



## arzoo

Deb. so wonderful to hear from you. Thanks to you so many of us have found support n comfort here. 
Will pm you my status. 
Good luck for your cycle.


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## MoBaby

So wonderful deb :) good to hear from you!! Can't believe your little girl is almost 2!


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## rdleela

Hi, Deb, great to hear from you! And awesome news about trying for a brother or sister for Aimee! I think you guys have a great attitude about it, best of luck! And I'll PM you!

Oh, and yes, it's amazing what your thread has become!! &#128077;&#128077;&#128077;&#128077;&#128077;


----------



## shazney22

Hi guys,

I am struggling this weekend, this is the 2nd time my OH has been diagnosed with this in the past five years. We were being (well he was, I wasnt) so positive too. What is the next step? Is there financial help available anywhere? Is there any positive stories of getting pregnant natural with this condition? xx


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## deafgal01

Different stories- different successes- different ways of getting there. You'll find that here. Deb who started this group finally had her little one almost 2 years ago. I would start with the first page/first post to see what information you need to start with.

2nd time in 5 years? Define what you mean by that? Did they find swimmers, and then he had none again? I'm so sorry you're joining the boat with us but you'll find great support here.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Hi Deb! I still lurk in here every now and then. Great update! I'll PM you my update.

For those of you who remember me, I did a second FET this summer. I got a BFP from it. I had my first beta drawn on Saturday and it was only 146.3 at 15dp5dt. I have to wait 8 whole days for the next beta. They never implied that it was low, but I know it is, I had been getting BFPs for a full week. I'm scared that something is wrong and left them a message tonight to call me. I'm hoping I can do an extra beta this week.


----------



## rdleela

Oh Becky, crossing all my fingers and toes for you!!! That's way too long to wait!!!


----------



## Rainbow123

CanadianMaple - How awful you have to wait so long, will keep my fingers and toes crossed for you too! XXXXXX


----------



## shazney22

deafgal01 said:


> Different stories- different successes- different ways of getting there. You'll find that here. Deb who started this group finally had her little one almost 2 years ago. I would start with the first page/first post to see what information you need to start with.
> 
> 2nd time in 5 years? Define what you mean by that? Did they find swimmers, and then he had none again? I'm so sorry you're joining the boat with us but you'll find great support here.

well the report came back today and it says no sperm seen with a high power microscope. It is the second time they have found no sperm. I am just at a lost what to do next. It doesnt actually have a medical name on the report which I find odd xx


----------



## bump_fever

Hello Everyone, 
I have been reading a lot in this thread and I can see there is quite a few followers. I am new to this BnB group, so I'll briefly fill you in. TTC for 7 years now, DH and I are both 31. We first jumped into this in 2009 after being diagnosed with low sperm count. All BFN's for 2 years + unplanned life events = burnt out, so we decided to take a break from it before it broke us. We never "stopped" trying, but I put all the effort to one side and focused on other things. In 2013, we switched Family Doc's and after reviewing our charts, our new doc brought up our Infertility and asked for an update on our baby plans. Before I knew it, we were jumping back in. I'm ready, I've been ready and I want this. I told DH it's all or nothing this time, full speed ahead, I'm not waisting any more time. 
So our Doc ordered a bunch of stuff, comparing any changes over the years. Everything came back the same, except DH's SA - no sperm!! WTF?!?!?! We were referred to a new FS, specializing in male factor. We met with our new FS in May 2014. It was a bit of a wait (I had forgot what that felt like) and to sum it up, it's trial and error if DH can make sperm again. His FSH is normal, so at least there isn't permanent damage to the testis. 
DH is now taking Pregnyl injections, twice a week for 4 months (reassess in November). He's been a real trooper so far and we have had very difficult conversations discussing the "what if cards". I am kicking myself in the ass for not sticking with this years before. He had sperm, they were there, and we never did anything to save them. We were younger, different priorites, and never thought it would lead to this. Thats a hard pill to swallow. 
Has anyone out there gone through this or similar scenario? Can the body start to make sperm again? Does Pregnyl really work for this?? I'm trying to stay positive and keep my head above water. DH blaimes himself enough as it is, let alone having to see me as an emotional wreck! It's hard to be strong for him when I'm bursting inside with anger and fear. 
Can someone shine some light over here, please? It's lonely in the dark.


----------



## shazney22

hi bump_fever,

I have had two of my OH sperm sample with 0 in it. over a period of 5 years. I have a daughter due to a previous relationship. I am really devestaed at the moment. I just feel like everything is against us and no where to turn to. Just got the report back today with the results xx


----------



## bump_fever

Shazney, my heart goes out to you. Do you have other options? Are there treatments you can try? What about TESA/MESA/Donor/adoption? 
I'm feeling it Pregnyl doesn't work for us, it might be the end of the road. DH is against donor, and I don't know how I feel about adoption.


----------



## shazney22

bump_fever said:


> Shazney, my heart goes out to you. Do you have other options? Are there treatments you can try? What about TESA/MESA/Donor/adoption?
> I'm feeling it Pregnyl doesn't work for us, it might be the end of the road. DH is against donor, and I don't know how I feel about adoption.


My heart goes out to you too. I am extremly grateful and lucky I have one daughter. I have no idea, it depends on what the urologist decides and if my OH decides on things. He is confused and not sure what to do. As am I, so many options to begin with. I would like TESA with IVF or ICSI but again depends if they can do that or not. Donor I would go ahead but OH is struggling to get his head around that, I dont feel I would want to adopt but you know what the process did look a lot easier than this so I dont think I would say no to it xx


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## shazney22

bump_fever

you do ask a lot of what if questions dont you? Its hard because even though many people think there isnt a lot of options there is a lot and it is hard to choose which one that feels right for you. xx


----------



## shazney22

bump_fever

I meant to ask did your OH wait 3-5 days of before producing a sample? As I dont get how he could have a low count then zero. xx


----------



## bump_fever

Shazney, 
I do ask a lot of What if's...can't help myself really. I've always been a planner and organizer and it's hard when I can't do that. 
Going from Low count to zero happened somewhere in the last 4 years. There were MANY low count samples before when we tried IUI, so we know he "can" make sperm, but for some reason it stopped. DH gave 3 samples since Nov 2013, all zero count. The samples were collected appropriately.


----------



## CanadianMaple

Just an update. I think I'm miscarrying. Actually, I know I am. Bleeding and clots. This journey really stinks.


----------



## bump_fever

CanadianMaple, *hugs*


----------



## Jacks10

Hello everyone, I thought I would say hello! Please may I join you girls?

Soooo as an introduction to me and my story... TTC since Dec 2012. I started monitoring ovulation by cycle 2 (temps, mucous, clear blue, the lot), and just knew something wasn't right. I started investigating IVF by cycle 4, and DH thought I was mental. I knew we were doing everything right so I guessed something was wrong. Assumed it was me (didn't we all?) and maybe at worst DH could have low sperm count too. It seemed the only thing limiting IVF was the money. I tried to convince my Gp I had pcos on cycle 6 :blush:, and had all the tests (wasn't given clomid). 

DH has had 6 SAs since then, all have been zero. We had no reason at all for the azoospermia, this was a complete bombshell, we didn't know anything about it beforehand. If we had known all along it may not have been such a shock but we both were so convinced it was me that all our 'worst case scenario' planning was based on needing IVF. If only we were so lucky! :nope::

Lots of love to every single one of you,
Jac


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## Jacks10

Oh CM, that's really sad, I'm so sorry :hugs:


----------



## raelynn

CanadianMaple - I am so sorry you're going through a miscarriage. Life is so unfair sometimes. I know how bad it hurts and I'll be praying for you during this tough time.


----------



## rdleela

Awh, Becky, I am so very, very sorry...xoxo

Welcome to the new girls...it sucks to be here but the support and information is the best!

Jacks, the source of my hubby's azoos is a hernia repair surgery as a baby, and undescended testicles...we didn't know until after his SA, when his mom said "oh hey, you know..."


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## SunUp

CM, sending big hugs. Thinking of you.


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## arzoo

CanadianMaple - really sorry to hear about the MC. Hugs..

Jacks10 - We were also under the care of Mr R. So , please feel free to PM any questions you have.


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## Jacks10

arzoo said:


> CanadianMaple - really sorry to hear about the MC. Hugs..
> 
> Jacks10 - We were also under the care of Mr R. So , please feel free to PM any questions you have.

Thanks arzoo. How do I send PMs?


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## arzoo

I am not able to send you a message Jacks


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## arzoo

You can send me a message by clicking on my name and then you will get the option to send me a messge. I tried to send you one but I think you have set your profie in a way I cant send you a message.
I am more than happy to answer any questions you have , in the forum as well.


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## Jacks10

Weird, I can't seem to work it out. Checked my profile settings and nothing seems to block PMs. I'm sure in just being a bit dim!

Ah well. I was hoping to ask a bit about tamoxifen, as I had a read of your diary and saw your DH was on it. Just wondered if you'd share some details, dose, duration, and whether hubby had normal fsh? I know it's silly to compare situations and hope that my experience might be similar but, y'know...


----------



## arzoo

Jacks. I think he was taking 10 mgs a day one tablet. Dh had high FSH. I had got him welman for men. But Mr R suggested that dh takes proxeed a sachet a day. And I think dh was on these for about 6 months. Initially was supposed to be on it for 3 months but we had few things in our way to get sorted out before we could go ahead with the MTese. 

It's natural to want to compare situations I used to do the same.


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## Deb111

CM - I'm so sorry you're going through this. Thoughts and prayers are with you xx

Jacks - I seem to remember you can't send or receive PM's until you've made 10 posts or something like that?
A quick note about Tamoxifen - my hubby was on that initially, but it pushed his oestradiol up too which isn't good when you're trying to make sperm. I'm pretty sure it was to do with him being overweight - something about the fat being metabolised, but just thought I'd mention it so you're aware. He ended up on anastrazole instead.

Thanks for all the lovely comments girls. When we got our diagnosis, there was just no info out there. It seemed pretty uncommon, so the chances of ever meeting anyone in person who was dealing with azoo seemed highly unlikely. I'd got chatting to Flake-y who was dealing with azoo too and just thought I'd start a thread to try and get some support and guidance myself from others further down the line. There are so many causes of, and possible treatments for azoo that we've been able to share. I find this such an empowering group of the most amazing women, supporting total strangers but united by having been thrown into a situation that just floors you and leaves you feeling so isolated, whilst also trying to be strong for our partners. I have to say I feel incredibly honoured to have 'met' you all :kiss:

Thanks for the PM's so far. I will do some updating on the front page hopefully on Thursday.

Hugs to you all xx


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## Jacks10

Thanks Deb, that might explain it!

And thanks both for the info on tamoxifen/anastrazole. 

Plus geting stressed with DH as he is on stag do this weekend and has another planned for end of September and at both he will be drinking loads, despite me explaining that he needs to be teetotal fpr 3m before tese. Anyone else have this battle with their OHs before tese?


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## Deb111

I have many problems with dh Jacks lol but drinking isnt one of them as he is tee total!

Who is your appt with at the lister? Presume your husband is under Mr Ramsay too?


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## arzoo

Jacks : We also used Lister, just one thing to bear in mind or something you should clarify clearly before the procedure is the cost of Histology

We were initially told it would cost us around £350 -400. In my DH's case Mr R send 8 samples to the lab and in our final bill we were charged 8 times that amount. When we spoke to Mr R about this,he was surprised and said this was not the case and we should follow up with Lister and claim the additional money back. Which we did (couple of phone calls and letters) and we got some of it back. Obviously in the begining it was a big shock to us as we were not expecting this additonal approx 2k.So please make sure you clarify what the costs will be.

Regarding drining. DH did not completely stop drinking. He was never a brig drinker ,so a pint here and there was fine , is what we thought. Also it was awkard to explain to friends why he was not drinking, so he would get the drink and I would help him finish it at times ;)


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## Jacks10

Wow arzoo, I didn't realise they charged for histology on top of the £3500 the mTESE will cost, thanks for the warning! 

Eeek I think the whole cycle is going to cost over £13k then even if they don't find swimmers. Still, if it helps us move on one way or another, it is just money. I just wish we had a bit more of it :dohh:

But I'm getting ahead of myself again, have to keep remembering to try one step at a time. Azoo is a tough diagnosis for people who plan,plan and over-plan their life like me!

Shaznay have you and OH been referred to a fertility clinic? I think they are a good place to start with options and funding. If all you've had are the SA results then there's still a few more tests they'll probably want to run before advising if you might need SSR and icsi etc.

Bump I completely get what you mean about kicking yourself for not starting earlier. I do the same, keep reflecting on all the years DH and I faffed about thinking it wasn't the right time. I try to ignore it now and remind myself that I will look back in 10y and feel cross with myself for wasting so much of my life regretting the past when I can't change it. I really believe life does tend to work out ok in the end.


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## Jacks10

I feel like I know far more about mTESE and azoo than I do about IVF. I don't have a clue about all these terms down reg, short protocol, stim, lining grades etc etc etc. however I reckon I could draw a nifty diagram of the testis in any biology exam!!! Hoping I can just be told what to do by nurses and not get too involved in understanding the decisions- I am not confident at all that we will have any swimmers so I feel like I am protecting myself from deflation by not getting too involved in the egg collection side of things


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## arzoo

Jacks. Not sure what is covered as part of the 3.5k quote you were given. 

Also if you are keen to have dr nicoplous do your ec. Then mention it to him and then when your dates are decided speak to his pa to help u organise it. It might be regular practise but I was a little surprised when I got to know that it could be any doctor on the day who does ur ec. I asked for James and he did my ec.


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## Deb111

Jacks10 said:


> Deb we are down to see dr nicopoullis I think. I feel like I know far more about mTESE and azoo than I do about IVF. I don't have a clue about all these terms down reg, short protocol, stim, lining grades etc etc etc. however I reckon I could draw a nifty diagram of the testis in any biology exam!!! Hoping I can just be told what to do by nurses and not get too involved in understanding the decisions- I am not confident at all that we will have any swimmers so I feel like I am protecting myself from deflation by not getting too involved in the egg collection side of things

James Nicopoullis is my consultant too. I think Mr Ramsay steers his male infertility cases in his direction. I've only met him once and had a couple of telephone consultations but he is lovely and very approachable. It wasn't James who did my EC or transfer - it was just whoever was down to do them for that day. After a stressful transfer the first time, James said he would do my transfer when we had our FET, but he was on holiday :dohh:

Don't worry about not understanding the IVF side of things. jame is at the other end of an email and the IVF nurses will tell you every step of the way after each scan

Funny thing is, I feel like I don't have a clue about it all now; I feel like I've forgotten it all - even the abbreviations for things and some of the simplest stuff - reckon I will be picking all your brains this time round lol I've kind of accepted that actually, this time, I don't need to understand every minute detail, although I know it's different the first time round. My protocol will be the same as before as will my meds / doses etc. I understood it all the first time round and was happy with everything so no reason not to be this time.


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## Deb111

Last post seems to have disappeared! 
Anyway - a bit of long overdue forum 'housekeeping' done.

- front page updated with PM's received so far
- my video journal link reposted on front page as link wasn't working 

Keep the PM updates coming :thumbup: xx


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## snd80

:hugs: CM! Life is just SO unfair sometimes!!!


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## arzoo

Hello, just thought of you all so stopping by to say hello and warm hugs


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## melissaelaine

arzoo said:


> Hello, just thought of you all so stopping by to say hello and warm hugs

Hi! How are you doing? I am in the midst of our first IVF cycle. These injections aren't so bad when I am doing them, but I am all bruised up! Wasn't expecting that!


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## bubumaci

:hugs: Arzoo!!!

:wave: Melissaelaine - fingers and toes crossed for you :) :dust::dust::dust:


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## arzoo

Good luck melissaelaine.

I used to use an ice pack first to numb the area and then to get some relief from the injections. Not sre if they will prevent the bruising. Hopefully they get better for you.


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## Rainbow123

Good luck melissaelaine! XXX


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## gem10

Well, ladies I havent been on in a while since our last failed cycle in July. We did a frozen embryo transfer September 12 and I go for my beta tomorrow. But, I took a test today and it was POSITIVE!! I am totally freaking out and seriously cannot believe it!! Hopefully we get good numbers from the doctor tomorrow. DH is cautiously optimistic and wants to wait until we hear the numbers before we get excited. But I cant wait! I am excited already!! Thank you all for getting me through this journey. I am far from out of the woods, but for the first time I have hope that this might be it!!!!!!!!

I will update with beta tomorrow!


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## gem10

Well, ladies I havent been on in a while since our last failed cycle in July. We did a frozen embryo transfer September 12 and I go for my beta tomorrow. But, I took a test today and it was POSITIVE!! I am totally freaking out and seriously cannot believe it!! Hopefully we get good numbers from the doctor tomorrow. DH is cautiously optimistic and wants to wait until we hear the numbers before we get excited. But I cant wait! I am excited already!! Thank you all for getting me through this journey. I am far from out of the woods, but for the first time I have hope that this might be it!!!!!!!!

I will update with beta tomorrow!


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## raelynn

gem - That is so exciting!! Wishing you tons of luck for your beta tomorrow!


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## rdleela

Gem, Congrats!!! That's soooo flippin' exciting!!! Best of luck with your beta tmrw!


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## MoBaby

Congrats gem!


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## bubumaci

Gem, soooooo exciting! Can't wait to hear your results! :dust::dust::dust:


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## Stinas

Gem - best of luck Tom!! I am super excited for you!!


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## Jacks10

Yay Gem!!! So pleased for you! Fingers crossed for the beta, really hoping this is your time x
No news from me, just waiting to have appt at lister to plan our mTESE. I'm gunning for a late November cycle, hope my cycles behave (they have been 23 days recently, argh)


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## arzoo

Good luck Gem , waiting to hear from you.


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## Olive333

Good luck gem!!!

Can't wait for good news with your beta!!!


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## melissaelaine

Congratulations, Gem!! That is so exciting!

I went for my first true monitoring appointment today and had 8 measurable follicles, 3 of which were over 1.4 mm (is that right)?? The doctor expects 8-12 eggs and anticipates doing the ER on Monday or Tuesday. DH will give a fresh sample that day, but they'll be standing by to do tese if needed. This is getting real!


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## bubumaci

How exciting, that you have been for the first monitoring! ... I think it is probably more likely to be 14mm - they like them to be around or over 20mm when doing the egg retrieval, I think 1,4mm sounds a bit small? - I think 18/19mm or so for trigger...
Fingers crossed for you :) xoxo


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## melissaelaine

bubumaci said:


> How exciting, that you have been for the first monitoring! ... I think it is probably more likely to be 14mm - they like them to be around or over 20mm when doing the egg retrieval, I think 1,4mm sounds a bit small? - I think 18/19mm or so for trigger...
> Fingers crossed for you :) xoxo

I was just thinking that! The paper said 1.4, but I am thinking that it was 1.4 cm, which would be 14mm. That makes a lot more sense!


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## sharon99

Yay Gem!!!! So exciting!!

Hugs and Hi to everyone else!


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## bubumaci

Hey Sharon - long time no see! You must be due soon?? How are you doing?


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## gem10

Beta camr back at 760!!! This could be it!!!!!!!:wohoo::wohoo: Thank you everyone for your kind words, I am on cloud nine!


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## rdleela

Fabulous beta!!


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## melissaelaine

That's so exciting, gem!


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## bubumaci

:wohoo: that's perfect!!!


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## Jacks10

Mahoosive congrats gem, that is a lovely lovely result! Have a dance :happydance: :happydance: :wohoo:

It's so great to hear positive azoo news, and so nice to know that it IS possible to be happily pregnant even going through what we're all struggling with. 

How is hubby doing? I know you said after your failed TESE he wasn't feeling too great about the donor embies. We now have to decide about donor back up for our upcoming TESE. I would be very happy to do that as I am now so ready for a bfp now, whether it's bio or donor I am just ready to nurture a little one. But DH is not at all on board yet. we haven't told anyone at all about azoo, not even family, so i can see we need the time to adjust ourselves before going straight into a donor cycle. But I'm just so ready to be a mum! Not very good at being patient, that's my problem :shrug:


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## Jacks10

Also well done Melissa for growing good follies! Fingers crossed for you and DH next week xxx


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## gem10

Jacks10 dh is doing great! It honestly hasnt even come up. He was so nervous that the poas tests were false, but when the nurses called he was laughing and shouting! He is soo happy and excited. It hasnt even bothered me. I think this year has just been so hard we are just so happy to have good news. I did wonder if this would have worked if we had used progesterone shots with dh sperm. But he even said, I cant think like that, the doctors have to do the least invasive measures first. 

So I know how you feel. I think my DH camr around after our second failed attempt. He hated giving me shots and seeing me disappointed. He said he just wanted to be a dad, and he will be no matter what. We havent told anyone about the donor, and I really dont feel the need. We will be a family and that's all that matters! I hope everything works out for you, and if you have to use donor I bet your dh will get on board. I wish you the very best of luck. Just know you WILL get there. I never thought I would, ever. And am still in shock!


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## Jacks10

Fabulous news, you must be over the moon! Enjoy sharing the happy news together, I can't imagine how lovely it must feel!
And it's funny, everyone says once you get the bfp then all thoughts of donor are all but gone ,and I guess it must be true as everyone says it!

I have a couple of questions for you ladies who've been through ICSI/IVF...
does anyone know whether the antral follicle count scan needs to be on a certain day in the cycle? 
Also, I have my icsi planning appointment in a couple of weeks and I still need some blood tests done (my amh and fsh were last done last year and I've never had an E2 whatever that is). Is there any point having the appointment before the blood tests? Surely they'll need the results to decide which protocol/drugs I'll go on? I'm kicking myself I've not realised sooner and got these tests done beforehand but on cd7 at the moment so my cd1-3 will be way after the appointment. Argh!


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## melissaelaine

Jacks- I am not sure of the exact numbers, but my understanding of the BAF is that it helps the doctor determine what type of protocol to use with you. I know my RE told me that he would consider a different protocol if my number was higher/lower. My first BAF was around 16. At the beginning of my current IVF cycle, it was 13. This website has some interesting information: https://www.advancedfertility.com/antralfollicles.htm As for the blood tests, my understanding is that AMH can be tested at any time. Not sure about the others!

Update on me: I had another monitoring appointment today. I was up to 9 measurable follicles (over 10mm). My biggest one from yesterday's appointment was 17mm, but didn't grow any today. I had one that jumped from 14mm to 19mm, but the nurse said that might just be a smaller follicle next to it, obscuring it. I had 2 others that were 14mm or more, plus 5 that were between 10mm and 14mm. The nurse still thinks I will trigger on Saturday or Sunday with an ER on Monday or Tuesday!


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## bubumaci

E2 is oestrogen. I think it is OK to have the appointment - not quite sure how the cycles are monitored in other countries, but here for each of my cycles, they not only did the vaginal u/s to check how I was responding to the stims, but also took blood each time, checked the oestrogen, progesterone and LH levels, to make sure that everything was responding as it should.
The E2 early in the cycle and then the progesterone in the second half of the cycle is usually what they test to make sure that your cycle / hormone levels are as they should be (i.e. could it also be lack of progesterone resulting in no pregnancy) - if you have to do IVF / ICSI anyway, then I think the monitoring during the cycle at the clinic should be enough ...

I can't remember when the antral follicle scan needed to be - once we knew that we were going ahead with a stimming cycle, I would have my protocol and would start injecting on day 3 of the cycle, first u/s on day 5 ... xoxo


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## bubumaci

melissaelaine - that is sounding very good! :) :)


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## Deb111

Gem - massive congrats!!! :thumbup:


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## Deb111

Girls ... I need some advice please ...

As you know, we are going for another ICSI cycle. I had wanted it at the end of Oct but that meant EC 'could' have clashed with Aimee's birthday and I'm not prepared for that to happen, or with Mr Ramsay being on annual leave. So then we are faced with other choices and I really can't get my head round what would be best and most sensible - so I am hoping some of you will give me your opinions and maybe even suggest an option I have overlooked! :dohh:

So - my protocol is 
- BCP for anything between 12 and 42 days
- Nasal spray for 7 days
- Injecting for approx 10 - 16 days
- Trigger

Now I would have liked to aim for November, BUT Mr Ramsay is away 4th - 9th Nov and 18th - 22nd Nov.
I can't figure out whether a window of 9 days is enough for us to aim for. Can I absolutely guarantee to be able to aim EC within that window? I guess it's the number of days of injecting that is hard to predict. I think I'm likely to need more rather than less, but could it be more than 16??

Then I think would we be better aiming for December? but I organise the Nativity play at school and appts could clash with that and I don't want it ruining Christmas if the cycle doesn't work. Then again, I'm sure Christmas with a 2 year old wouldn't leave much time for being sad! lol

Sorry for rambling on girls, but dh can't seem to stay awake long enough after work to discuss this properly with me and I really just don't know what to do for the best :shrug:

Oh and I really don't want to wait until after Christmas - time is not on our side and I don't want to added stress of the possibility of bad weather when we're having to travel to London.

Oh yeah - and I started AF this evening so I need to make a decision asap so I know if I should be starting BCP!


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## Deb111

Jacks - I'm sure they use AFC as a pretty good indicator for your meds - but you can discuss likely protocol etc at your appt and things can always be tweeked once James has your results. AMH can be done at any point in your cycle xx


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## MoBaby

Deb I would go for December. 9 days typically isn't long enough. You won't be stressed out as much with the time crunch.


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## arzoo

Jacks: If you are undergoing treatment at Lister, they do both u/s and also blood at every appointment to keep track how you are responding to medicines. They could call me within few hours of the blood test to let me know if I had to change the dosage of any medicines.

Jacks dont know what antral follicle count scan is, but the scans during the cycle have to be at specific dates.

About having blood test before the appointment - James is very good on emails , he was more than happy for us to continue with our protocol without meeting him again, despite there being 3-4 months gap between the appointment and the actual cycle. Maybe you can request him to review the results and send you prescription later ? Prescription is only one part of the appointment, I found the conversations and finding answers to my 100000 questions the most important part.


Deb: Sorry, I re-read your post couple of times, I dont know what to suggest. I know you said post december is not an option for you, but I think I personally would go for that. Else , I dont know how things work at your school but can you ask a friend at work to step in to organise the play?


----------



## MBABY2014

&#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399;GEMMMMMMM &#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399;&#55357;&#56399;

I haven't been on the site- and just saw your good news!! I'm so so very happy for you! This is it!! Your beta is fantastic!!

Your gonna be a mama!! &#55357;&#56856;&#55357;&#56856;


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## melissaelaine

I triggered last night! ER tomorrow!


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## gem10

Thanks ladies!!! My second beta came back at 1,970! The nurse scared me though. She said those numbers were high and was wondering if the embryo split. She asked me if I had twins in my family, and I do. My moms mom had twins. As cool as it sounds, I dont know if my bicornurate uterus can handle that...thats why we only put in one! I didnt tell dh, it would totallly freak him out. We just gotta wait until the first ultrasound. Do you ladies think those numbers are high? They were taken at 12dp5dt and 14 dp5dt. I hope its a really strong singleton!!!

Congrats melissaelaine! Here comes the fun stuff!!


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## MoBaby

I was 691 11dpt and 2500 (or 2400) 13 dpt just one. Congrats on great numbers!! I have a unicornuate uterus which makes twins very risky so I imagine with a bicornuate uterus it's risky too as embryo implants on just one side.


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## bubumaci

Fantastic numbers Gem!!! This is it :happydance: Really excited for you ... :hugs:
Melissa :wohoo: congrats for triggering - will be thinking of you tomorrow :) :dust::dust::dust:


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## sharon99

YAY on the great numbers, Gem!!! I never had betas done so I don't have any to compare to... but I've heard of plenty of "high" betas for healthy, vibrant singletons.

Sorry I don't have any wisdom to share with the IVF-ers... but good luck to everyone!

Bubumaci, about 3 weeks away from my due date!!! And still feeling really good for the most part! I feel so, so lucky that my pregnancy has been so smooth- knocking on wood for a similarly smooth labor & delivery. You can't be that far behind me- how are you feeling?


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## bubumaci

Ahh - Sharon ... only 3 weeks away :)
I feel the same way, really blessed to have been able to enjoy everything so far! I am 5 weeks away ;)

Today we were quite busy and put together the rest of the furniture (room has been ready since beginning of August) - the playpen for downstairs, the babybay for our bedroom, the heater for above the changing table, the isofix for the car, put it in and made sure it works properly with the car seat ... even though we are still a bit away, I just wanted to have that all ready - and for the wood from the furniture to air :)


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## rdleela

Gem, check out www.betabase.info for your beta numbers! And congrats again!


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## melissaelaine

Just got home from my ER and it went well. They got 12 eggs! We won't know until tomorrow how many were mature/how many fertilized. But, even better news, they did not have to do the tese on my DH! They were able to get enough sperm from the ejaculate for the eggs! This is such good news because his samples have been all over the place. It took them a while to give us the news, so I think we were probably pretty close. We thought they were going to have to do it to get enough sperm. We even stocked up on ice packs just for him. Fingers crossed that the sperm do their job and fertilize those eggs!!

I am a little crampy, but not too bad. I had deep sedation anesthesia and didn't feel a thing or at least I don't remember feeling anything. The doctor said that I said hello to help and had some pain when they were getting to my left ovary. But, I certainly don't remember any of it. Thank God for anesthesia!


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## gem10

MoBaby, just out of curiousity, were you put on bedrest bc if your uterus. My biggest fear is complications later in, or miscarriage bc if my uterus.


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## bubumaci

Congratulations Melissa, that's great news! Rest up and all fingers and toes crossed for a good fertilisation report for you for tomorrow! :dust::dust::dust:


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## MoBaby

Gem no but I had c section at 37 weeks. Lots of contractions since week 12 (braxton hicks) and my cervix was checked with ultrasound every 2 weeks. Bed rest isn't necessary unless signs of pre term labor. My pregnancy was easy too.


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## Rainbow123

Just been catching up - so much wonderful news to read!

CONGRATULATIONS GEM! I am SO happy for you!!! When's your first ultrasound? 

Melissaelaine - Fantastic news on the ER and DH not having to have MTESE. Keeping fingers tightly crossed that you get loads of embryos to choose from!

Deb - I've not done IVF, however December sounds like a good plan to me! I had similar worries about when was the 'right' time because of work commitments at school too, but then I realised that my family comes first and it wouldn't be the end of the world if I wasn't there for a particular event, and that school would find a way without me! I think when you work with kiddies, you get so emotionally involved and you just want to do what's right for them, but there are some situations where you really need to put yourself first. 

Sharon - 3 weeks! HOW BLOOMING EXCITING! 

Bubumaci - 5 weeks! It's gone so fast!

A little update from me - we found out at our 20 week scan that we're having a little boy - I'M SO EXCITED! :cloud9:

Lots of love to all! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## bubumaci

:wohoo: welcome to team blue :) :) :kiss:


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## melissaelaine

Rainbow- Congratulations on the baby boy!! I am so excited for you!

I just got our fertilization report: all 12 of my eggs were mature, so they did ICSI on all 12. Of those 12, we have 7 embryos today. I am a little concerned about that fertilization rate because it is typically higher with ICSI than traditional IVF, but I am still really excited. I am just worried that maybe that's a sign there is something going on with the underlying eggs or sperm. Did anyone else with super low sperm counts (sometimes zero) have these issues? Lots of prayers for continued cell division and healthy embryos!! We'll find out more tomorrow.


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## bubumaci

Melissa - that is great that all 12 eggs were mature!! And I would say your fertilisation rate is great too!
For our tries, it was similar to yours (for all tries except the last, they managed to get enough sperm out of the sperm sample to do ICSI - the last try they had to take some frozen sperm, because there was nothing in the TESE for them to use).

Or fertilisation reports : 
June 2012 : 14 retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilised (fresh transfer + 2 x FET = BFN)
September 2012 : 11 retrieved, 10 mature, 7 fertilised (fresh transfer + 1 x FET = BFN)
February 2013 : 23 retrieved, 18 mature, 15 fertilised (OHSS, so no fresh transfer; FET = BFN)
July 2013 : 12 retrieved, 10 mature, 5 fertilised (fresh transfer : chemical)
December 2013 : 13 retrieved, 11 mature, 9 fertilised (fresh transfer : chemical)
February 2014 : 15 retrieved, 14 mature, 9 fertilised (this one gave us our BFP)

So really, I wouldn't worry - I think your results are great (if you look at our last try, the results are similar to yours and that was the try that gave us our BFP) ... you can see that we had so many eggs retrieved and so many fertilised - and yet only one gave us our BFP : even if the eggs are fine, and the sperm is fine, the embryo might still not develop due to chromosome issues etc. (which is probably what happened in our case) - so no, I would say that that is not a sign that there is something wrong with your eggs or DH's sperm!

I think your fertilisation results are great and now we just have to pray for nice development and healthy embies :) :dust::dust::dust:


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## arzoo

melissaelaine -We found sperms through mTese, started with 19 eggs and 19 sperms but only 11 fertilised. And as days went by, the numbers slowly decreaesed by Day 5 we had only 7. Doctors did warn us that sperms retried through mTese are not the best quality but all it takes is just one egg and one sperm. 
I am pregnant with Twins now :)


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## melissaelaine

arzoo- Thank you for sharing your story! We did not have to do an mTese, thankfully, but we also don't know how many sperm DH produced from his ejaculate, so the numbers may have been comparable to the numbers you all retrieved from your mTese. Congratulations on your pregnancy!


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## Jacks10

Thanks all for your advice on follicle count and blood tests.

Debs toughie decision on timing. I have asked my manager to put me on light duties for nov/dec because of a planned procedure. Can you tell headteacher something similar? Then if you have tp miss a rehearsal or meeting ypu have his/her backing? If it ends up being jan it is only a few weeks later really so whilst it would be annoying I know, I can't imagine your age would be significantly more important if you know what I mean?

melissa seems like all is looking good so far, fingers crossed!!xx
Gem the excitement continues! Your docs will look after you I'm sure xx

Arzoo interesting you only got 19 from tese yet ended up with twinnies, that's awesome! Did you have imsi to select the best of those 19?

bubamaci has your dh had repeated mteses for your icsi attempts? Your numbers are great!

Lots of love to everyone else, tough doing personals on a phone with vv low battery and unstable 3g...


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## arzoo

Jacks we dint do imsi. Imsi is usually done when you have surplus sperms to choose from! In our case we just had enough, infact they found 19 after looking for a long time so the question of imsi dint come up at all


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## bubumaci

Jacks - no ... quite a long story - but after taking Tamoxifen for 6 weeks in April/May of 2012, we were party to a miracle (previously, DH had had 0 - max 250k sperm in his samples, with zero motility and very poor morphology) : he produced 13 mio sperm with 8% motility. They froze 6 straws at the clinic.
For the first try, they were able to use sperm from a fresh sample. The second try there was nothing in the fresh sample, so they thawed one straw. The third try, they found enough in the fresh sample, same with the fourth and fifth tries. For the sixth try (in Feb this year), DH underwent a TESE (not an mTESE) - and I took the sample with me to the clinic, so that they could have it to fertilise right after the egg retrieval. Before I went in for the procedure, they informed me, that they had not been able to find anything in the TESE sample - so they would be thawing 3 straws from 2012 and using those ... needless to say, I had silent tears running down my cheeks before going in for the procedure (already prepped, with the IV in and everything), tears for DH having had to go through the TESE for nothing, tears for us, fearing another failure ... yet - it was that try, that brought us our beautiful, miracle BFP ... :)


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## melissaelaine

What's the difference between an mTese and a regular tese? I've always been confused by that.


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## Stinas

melissaelaine said:


> What's the difference between an mTese and a regular tese? I've always been confused by that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a TESE is more invasive....they completely cut the testicles open and search.


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## melissaelaine

Stinas said:


> melissaelaine said:
> 
> 
> What's the difference between an mTese and a regular tese? I've always been confused by that.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a TESE is more invasive....they completely cut the testicles open and search.Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking too. I was confused because DH told me that if they had done a procedure on him, it would have been a needle aspiration, but the doctor called it a tese and not an mtese. Just thankful he didn't need that this time!

I got the call from the nurse this morning and we're doing a 5-day transfer on Friday! There was no update on the embryos at all though, so I have no clue how many are still hanging in. I asked and she told me that the lab doesn't provide a report, they check and make an assessment as to how they're developing and if they're still developing well, they go for 5 days. So, I will get a call tomorrow with the transfer time.


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## arzoo

Good luck n fingers crossed for you Melissaelaine


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## raelynn

Hey all some more info on the TESE vs mTESE subject. During a TESE procedure, they either take one random tissue sample or several random samples and check if they find any sperm in them. mTESE is the one where they use a microscope to try and locate sperm in the tissue and then take tissue samples from those areas. The m stands for micro because of the use of a microscope to help rather than random samples.

The TESE can be done as a needle aspiration because it is random samples or it can be done through a small incision to remove the tissue samples. My husbands urologist took the TESE sample through a small incision and actually looked at it under a microscope right then to see if they found any sperm or should try again. I guess it all depends on the doctor how the procedure is done and how invasive they make it.


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## MoBaby

The second opinion clinic we would use does a tese at time of ec... They basically take a few random punch biopsy samples of the testes and hope to find sperm. They also have the male provide a fresh sample too.
The mtese is usually done before hand and the sperm is frozen. The testes are cut open and searched through with a microscope like raelynn said.


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## melissaelaine

Just got home from the transfer and it went well! We had 2 "gorgeous" blastocysts ready today. (We didn't get into the details of grading. I wish I had asked, but was just so mesmerized to see the picture of it!) We transferred one and they will freeze the other. I have 2 more that "may" make it to freezing tomorrow, but 3 others that likely won't. I am really pleased with these results. The embryologist and the RE both seemed really pleased with the quality of the blast that we transferred, so I am just really praying and hoping that it keeps growing and attaches!! Here is a picture:
 



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## SunUp

:wohoo:Melissa - your embie pic looks amazing!

:dust:


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## bubumaci

Melissa - that is just a picture perfect little embiebaby! <3 ... and judging from your signature, you were able to freeze the other two?
When is your OTD? I am so looking forward to a good result for you! :)


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## melissaelaine

bubumaci said:


> Melissa - that is just a picture perfect little embiebaby! <3 ... and judging from your signature, you were able to freeze the other two?
> When is your OTD? I am so looking forward to a good result for you! :)

Thanks, bubu! We found out yesterday that they were able to freeze the other 2, so we have 3 frosties! :cold: I am so relieved to know that we have an option before having to do another full IVF cycle. 3 frosties really is more than I hoped for! 

OTD is Monday, 10/13. I am considering doing an HPT Sunday. If not, then I will probably do one Monday morning. If the result is negative, I really want to prepare myself and not hear it from the nurse the first time. 

Meanwhile, I am trying to figure out if I have any symptoms... I don't think I do. That makes me a little worried, but not too much. I know it's normal not to have symptoms this early.


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## bubumaci

:) so next Monday :)
If it is any help, I had no symptoms at all, except for my OHSS flaring up again quite badly. ... :hugs:
That is also great that you have three nice :cold: !! :)


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## gem10

Ladies, I am freaking out. Sunday and Monday I was experiencing bad cramps. I went in on Monday for an ultrasound and everything was fine. Then I went back yesterday because I was bleeding, pretty bad. They checked my cervix and the fetus and everything was still fine. I stayed home in bed all day. When I woke up the bleeding had stopped, and I was so relieved. Then at 2:00 it picked back up again. They are letting me come back on Friday. I am so scared. They said first trimester bleeding is normal, but to me its not. Its scary and awful. Any thoughts or advice. I am trying to be hopeful bc I had great betas, and saw a heartbeat twice, but this is bringing my hopes down.


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## Stinas

Gem - I spotted for weeks! You might have a SH if the bleeding it a good amount...totally normal in first tri. Ask the doc if it is a possibility. 

melissaelaine - I had no symptoms except for a migraine day before my BFP...both times. Good luck!


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## gem10

She saw what she thought was a pocket of blood on Monday. When I went Tuesday she said it appeared much smaller and thats where she thought this was coming from. But now I am passing clots, which is freaking me out. I am fearful I am losing the baby....


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## arzoo

Hi Gem. I had the same issue. How many weeks are u now? It's scary but don't worry it will pass. Did the doctor say you are having a clot or haematoma ? It changes size often and that's why you stop and start bleeding. 
For me it continued on for weeks from about week 7 till about week18. It was not always heavy n red. At times brown. When ever I had fresh bleed I had to go back to get a scan to make sure everything was ok. 

Good luck.


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## gem10

I am just over 6 weeks. Did you have cramping too?


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## arzoo

I had cramping in my thighs which happens to me during my periods. But the pain was not as bad as period pain.


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## MoBaby

Gem you can pass clots with pockets of blood.. Did the clots happen when you first woke up or after you had been resting a while? When I bleed with one of my BFPs (my MC was totally unrelated; I had pretty much stopped bleeding when the HB stopped) I had clots a few times (tons and tons of clots) the baby was always fine. The clots were always with my first morning wee and the nurse said the blood pools overnight/after long periods of lying down and can cause clots to come out. Hoping all is okay.


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## gem10

Went to the doctor, the baby had no heartbeat. The blood had completely surrounded the sac and it detached from my uterus. Now I have to wait to pass it. I am beyond devastated. I cannot believe this is happening. Everything was going so well. I keep thinking I did something wrong, like I should have rested more or something. I am so scared of what's to come.


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## arzoo

Gem, I am so sorry for you. Please don't blame yourself. My doctor told me there was nothing she or anyone could do to stop the clot growing.


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## Olive333

Gem - I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you take time to grieve. I can't imagine what you are going through. Try not to think that you did something wrong, this is not your fault.

Hugs!


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## melissaelaine

Oh Gem!! :hugs: I am so sorry for your loss!


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## bubumaci

Gem, I am desperately sorry for you :( :( there is nothing I can say to express how awful I feel for you.
But one thing is certain : this was NOT your fault!! Please don't blame yourself - sometimes nature is so cruel and there is no rhyme or reason to it! :hug:


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## MoBaby

Gem so sorry :( life is so unfair! We think after great betas and then a hb everything will be okay. I hate this for you! You didn't do anything wrong so please don't blame yourself.


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## melissaelaine

Hi Ladies! Gem, you are still in my thoughts. I am really sorry that you have to go through this!

So, I caved yesterday and tested early - 6dp5dt. It was a slight positive, but I was too nervous to post in this group about it. I tested again this morning and I think it is slightly darker. I am 7dp5dt today, and not scheduled for my beta until Monday (10dp5dt), but I am really hoping and praying that this is the start of my forever BFP. What do you ladies think?
 



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## bubumaci

How are you doing Gem? (Probably really stupid question, I am thinking of you a lot!) :hugs:

Melissa ... that looks very much like a wonderful BFP to me :hugs: :dust::dust::dust:


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## gem10

Thank you all for your kind words. I am not well. Going in an hour for a D & C. It is hard to believe just two weeks ago I was given the best news ever and today it is being taken away. I cannot stop crying. This pain is worse than all of my BFNs combined. Praying for peace of mind, and comforted somewhat that I got to be a mommy if only for a very short time.


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## Rainbow123

Oh Gem! I am so so so sorry to hear about your loss. Life is so unfair. Thinking about you and sending you lots of love and hugs. :hugs: XXXXXXXXXX


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## Stinas

Gem - Im so sorry!!! Its a terrible thing to go through I know personally how it feels. Please do not lose hope! Take all the time you need for yourself, but do not lose hope!!

melissaelaine - Yay!!! Congrats!!!


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## gem10

Stinas I am so sorry you had to go through this also. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. How long did you wait before trying again? All I can think about is being pregnant again.


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## raelynn

Gem - I am so so sorry you are going through this. I also know from experience how much this hurts. I had a natural miscarriage and didn't need a d&c since it was earlier on but we started trying again the very next cycle. I pray that the pain will lessen for you and you will get through this and your forever baby will be here soon.


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## rdleela

Gem, I am so very sorry for all the pain and loss you are going through right now...take care of yourself xoxo


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## Stinas

gem10 said:


> Stinas I am so sorry you had to go through this also. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. How long did you wait before trying again? All I can think about is being pregnant again.

I had the D&C May 8. I was devastated and just wanted time to myself, which I am very happy I did give myself. We also wanted time to decide if we were going to use our embryos or go with donor. Thankfully we decided to go with 2 out of the last 3 embryos we had with DH sperm (from TESE) mid to late Aug (2013)....which gave us these two amazing blessings. 

I shut everyone out for a good two weeks after the D&C...not going to lie....I just wanted to be miserable and alone for a little. Then I just let loose....enjoyed the summer. Did things I haven't since getting married and having responsibilities. I highly suggest doing so because once you have the baby/babies....everything changes....for the better, but sometimes you miss the little things.

Dont rush into another cycle until you and DH are ready. Plus you need your body to recover.

PM me anytime you like!


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## babadespls

I'm so sorry Gem, Thoughts are with you!

I still come on here every now and then to see what's happening even though my journey is basically over, after we found out about DH's Sertoli Only Syndrome, its been so hard, we had a huge argument about donor sperm and he wont consider it so now we never talk about it but its constantly on my mind. 

DH has also been so stubborn and wont go to counselling with me through our RE's Office. 

He says he wont give up on having a biological baby, and so now Im researching sperm mapping, have any of you had it done or heard of it? 
Why is it so controversial?


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## melissaelaine

I read up on sperm mapping at one point, but it only seems like very few people do it, so I did not dig down too much. The concept seems interesting, though. I am sorry that your DH is not interested in DS. Is adoption an option or is he not interested in that either? When my DH and I talked about DS vs. adoption as a backup plan if needed, he was more in favor of DS because it's cheaper...

I got my beta back today - 228! Prayers that it doubles by Thursday when I go back!


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## raelynn

Melissaelaine - Great beta! I had my 3rd beta today and I go back Thursday too! It went from 289 to 804 this time so hoping we see a good number again Thursday. Good luck on Thursday!

babadespls - I haven't done much research on sperm mapping. My hubby was against donor sperm at the beginning too sometimes it just has to come down to no other options for them to consider. Also, as Melissaelaine said the cost was a factor too. IUI with donor sperm was a lot cheaper for us and hubby loves our little one just as if it were his biological daughter. Hopefully yours will come around to considering other options as well if it comes to that.


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## bubumaci

I'm sorry, I have not researched sperm mapping at all - or is that the same as testing of the sperm to check how healthy it is?

Melissa - that is a really great result - you are 10dp5dt today, right? I am sure you will be seeing it tripled by Thursday :) :wohoo:

Yay Raelynn - fantastic :) :hugs:


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## gem10

Raelynn, your doctor let you try again the next cycle after your loss? Did you have to wait for two periods or one? All I can think about is starting again. I keep wondering if I should use the frozen embryos we have or try diui. The thought of being pregnant again is the only thing giving me hope. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever been through. I am sorry you experienced it too. I have read that our bodies are most fertile after a loss...do you think that's true?


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## raelynn

It was 2 cycles after my miscarriage. I miscarried and then, when I had my next period, we started again. Since I miscarried naturally, I bled like a period (but a lot worse) for that and then the next time I bled was the start of our cycle trying. It is possible that you are more fertile after a loss. I got pregnant with my daughter through dIUI the first cycle we did after my miscarriage. The miscarriage is actually what made us switch to dIUI since we weren't sure if it was the quality of the sperm that caused it. I hope you're doing ok! I know this is just a terrible thing to go through. Moving forward and trying again helped me a lot too.


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## BabyBplease

hello ladies I'm brand new to this site but after finding this forum decided to join. my BF is azoo and we just found out his FSH is 17.6 which def sucks! We are considering ditching the biopsy and going straight for a Micro-TESE which seems to have the best chance of sperm retrieval for this diagnosis and he's also awaiting the results of the Karytotyping / genetics tests which is supposedly the step before a biopsy.

I've basically read every study/ test/ medical paper ect I can find since I'm not working a lot these days. As for FNA sperm mapping the reason doctors like the renowned Dr Schlegel at Cornell advise against it is that it can cause potential testicular trauma and it's a diagnosis procedure which then means after you would still have to go thru the expensive Micro-Tese anyways. Schlegel studies of late have found that even a biopsy and serum FSH levels can not provide a definitive diagnosis of whether there will sperm found during the Micro-tese. So even if there is no sperm on a biopsy even with worst case Sertoli Only Syndrome there is still about a 20-30% chance of finding it with this surgery.

Mapping helps them in determining when doing said surgery where the best chance of finding these sperm would be if they did the surgery. So while it can be great in healing them find it and diagnosing it does not extract them and you risk damaging the few sperm there by puncturing the tests over muktiple areas with a fine needle. I'm not a dr by any means and just starting out of this journey so if anyone has more experience and a better understanding please correct me if I'm wrong!

The thing with all these is you have to have both the money to get them done as well as find a doctor who has had experience and success in doing so and that is where it sucks more than ever to be in this dreaded 1%.

I'm very happy to find online support and forums such as these and hope everyone is finding success our at least peace on their infertility journey it sure sucks! 

It's overwhelming to go thru the 644 pages of this thread but I'm hoping to find some success stories to keep me going.




babadespls said:


> I'm so sorry Gem, Thoughts are with you!
> 
> I still come on here every now and then to see what's happening even though my journey is basically over, after we found out about DH's Sertoli Only Syndrome, its been so hard, we had a huge argument about donor sperm and he wont consider it so now we never talk about it but its constantly on my mind.
> 
> DH has also been so stubborn and wont go to counselling with me through our RE's Office.
> 
> He says he wont give up on having a biological baby, and so now Im researching sperm mapping, have any of you had it done or heard of it?
> Why is it so controversial?


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## BabyBplease

Sorry for typos!


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## CanadianMaple

Hi everyone! I needed to pop in and say goodbye! I found out at 8w4d (Oct 5) that I had a blighted ovum. Empty sac, placenta but not baby. They made me wait to miscarry and finally let me get my D&C today.

I was nervous about miscarrying alone and this D&C has made me feel so relieved. I wasn't even so sedated that I couldn't talk throughout the 10 minute procedure. Recovery was a bit tougher, cramps and moderate bleeding, but it settled within an hour an a half. I went to mom's and slept and feel great tonight. Still bleeding a bit, but I am no longer terrified of something happening in the middle of the night.

This is the end of my IVF/TTC days. I will pop in from time to time, but I really feel like this chapter in my life is coming to a close. I gave my 2 best embryos a chance and it didn't work out. I guess they weren't meant to work out. I feel peaceful about knowing I tried and now I feel ready to live in the present and stop looking behind me.

Thank you for all of the support you have given me over these past few years and I wish you all the best.


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## MoBaby

Awww :( cm hate this for you! Hate to see you go!! 

I know it's hard for you. Maybe you'll reconsider in the future? My little man is from my worst embryos, one which had been thawed, they didn't think it was going to survive, it did and they refrozen it and thawed it again! So the best embryos aren't necessarily the best. 
I understand though. You've been through sooo much. You are so strong and brave for wanting to do this ttc stuff alone. :)


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## deafgal01

:hugs: CM oh girl! That is sad. :hugs: I'm sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted.


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## raelynn

CM - I am so sorry to hear this. You have been through so much I just pray that you find peace in the decisions you make about the future! We'll miss you!


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## OzMalak

Hi All
This is my first post here. My DH was recently diagnosed with azoospermia. We had been TTC for 6 months and nothing and I just thought that it would be me but unfortunately his first SA came back zero sperm in sample. We were suprised and trying to figure our why, how etc? Then we did a second one and it came back the same :(

We have since got to a FS which then got DH to do blood tests and referred us to a urologist. We have recently seen the urologist which came back that his FSH level were very high and his LH was a little bit high. The next step is to do his biopsy (TESA) where they will determine is he has steroli or not. The urologist said that they will take a sample and first thing will determine if there are any sperm. If there is they will freeze some of them and then the rest of the sample gets sent for biposy, if no sperm then all of it will be sent for biopsy.

So that is our story so far. DH is not interested in donor sperm at all so for us that is not an option.

I have to read this entire thread but until I finish reading does anyone have any success stories about NOA azoospermia and biological children?

As others have probably thought ... why are we the 1% that is happens to?


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## gem10

Cm I am so sorry for your loss. I have just recently gone through something similar. I applaud you for your bravery in trying, and evem more so for knowing you are ready to move on. I am so happy you have found peace of mind in your decision. I will keep you in my thoughts and pray that you have blessings come your way in the future. :hugs:


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## bubumaci

CM ... : :hugs::kiss:

OzMalak :howdy: welcome to the group! Even though it is sad that you have to join it - this is really a group of fabulous women!

Yes - we have NOA / Oligospermia (no explanation for the lack of sperm or, when there are a few found, why the quality is bad) - and our baby that is on its way is biological <3


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## OzMalak

bubumaci said:


> CM ... : :hugs::kiss:
> 
> OzMalak :howdy: welcome to the group! Even though it is sad that you have to join it - this is really a group of fabulous women!
> 
> Yes - we have NOA / Oligospermia (no explanation for the lack of sperm or, when there are a few found, why the quality is bad) - and our baby that is on its way is biological <3

That is great news! I hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions. I was wondering at what point they found the sperm ... TESA or TESE/M-TESE? Also how many did they find? Also I was wondering if all the blood tests etc came back normal?


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## bubumaci

No, I don't mind you asking at all ... I had written a really long reply and then when I went to send, it was all gone ...
What I would suggest (because most of the information is there), is that you take a look at my journal (link is in my signature) and if you still have some questions, then I will be most happy to answer them.

In a nutshell : All blood tests and genetic testing was normal. Urologist found no blockages. And the one TESE he did have, the material was useless - nothing found ... to this day, we have no explanation as to why he has no sperm (or occasionally a few swimmers) and when there is something, why they are non-motile with really bad morphology ... :( But, we did experience a miracle :) :hugs:


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## MoBaby

Our case is same as bubu except we didn't do the tese/mtese . Opted out and kept our fingers crossed and I'm feeding my miracle right now :)


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## sharon99

Gem, I am so, so sorry. There are no words. My heart hurts for you and I hope you're resting and taking care of yourself. Many hugs.

Canadian Maple, I'm sorry to hear about your loss as well. My heart goes out to you, too.


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## sharon99

Just wanted to let everyone know- our little boy was born 2 weeks ago today! He was 7 lbs, 10 oz., and perfectly healthy. Two weeks later, we can't stop staring at him, or believing how lucky we are.

Anyone who might be curious- any worries I had about DH bonding with the baby (we used a donor) were completely unfounded. I have to remind DH that I'm in the room sometimes, he is so smitten with the baby. We talk about the donor sometimes (this morning DH asked if the donor was overweight- this baby is chunky!). I'm glad DH can talk so easily about it- more easily than I can, actually- I am still sometimes afraid of hurting his feelings by bringing it up. 

Congrats to the newly pregnant ladies! And welcome to new members- as others have said, I'm sorry that you're here, but I hope you'll find support here, as I certainly did. And Bubumaci, good luck in the final countdown to delivery!! :)


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## Olive333

Sharon - Congrats on your baby!


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## bubumaci

Sharon, that's wonderful. Congratulations on your baby boy <3


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## MoBaby

Congrats Sharon!!!


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## MBABY2014

Gem..thinking of you..please don't give up

So sorry CM...;(

BabyB- success story over here too!

Sharon- how wonderful!! Congratulations!!


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## tulip11

A big hello to everyone
Congratulations to ladies who got their BFP'S and on birth of new babies. Best of luck to all those who are struggling. Today is our first appointment of fertility treatment. Let's see what they will discuss as they sent us two forms to fill it. Hope for the best.


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## deafgal01

Good luck tulip!


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## bubumaci

Good luck, Tulip :dance:


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## arzoo

Good luck Tulip.

Congrats Sharon.

Gem how are you ?

Deb: What have you decided about your cycle?


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## tulip11

Today I have been told that my egg reserve is 9.1 slightly lowered at age of 27 . Feeling so stressed :( but according to my knowledge for egg reserve test they call you on some specific day of cycle for blood test but I didn't know that they did it and they even didn't call me on any specific day of my cycle. They just drawn the blood what I remember and didn't tell me that they will do egg reserve test and today they told me it's 9.1 slightly lowered at 27 age.


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## bubumaci

I'm sorry, I have no idea about ovarian reserve, the numbers and when what should be tested ... I remember when I first got myself tested, the oestrogen test had to be on a certain day of my cycle and the progesterone test a certain day after ovulation ... Maybe you can ring and ask for more specific information? And if they say "slightly lowered", then that doesn't sound too bad :hugs:


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## shazney22

Hi,

My OH has 0 sperm count and this condition. I have so many emotions going through my head, has anyone did donor sperm artifically or in the clinic? what is more successful? I have no idea where to start moving forward with this other than crying my eyes out a lot. I am trying to come to a decision but I am struggling to as all these what if questions are appearing all the time. Any advice would be of great help.


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## bubumaci

Hi Shazney - first off, I am sorry that you have had to join the Azoo train :hugs: This is a great group of women though, so I am sure you will find the support you need :howdy:
I am wondering whether or not it has been diagnosed as being obstructive or non-obstructive Azoospermia in your case. Would you DH consider have a scrotal biopsy done to find out, whether or not he does perhaps produce them, but not ejaculate them? There are several couples who are able to have biological children (together with ICSI) where sperm is retrieved through a TESE procedure (or have you already been down that route?).
I'm afraid I cannot give any advice concerning donor sperm - we ended up not having to go there. Although I have read about lesbian couples purchasing donor sperm, inserting the sperm when ovulating and becoming pregnant. And of course many couples who go the route of IUI with donor sperm and also are successful.

It is a very tough diagnosis to be faced with and I am sending you hugs and strength. And do cry your eyes out and allow yourself to grieve. The concept of not being able to have biological children with your partner is not easy to reconcile with and is, in its own way, a loss that needs to be grieved before moving on with the next steps.
:hugs:


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## shazney22

bubumaci said:


> Hi Shazney - first off, I am sorry that you have had to join the Azoo train :hugs: This is a great group of women though, so I am sure you will find the support you need :howdy:
> I am wondering whether or not it has been diagnosed as being obstructive or non-obstructive Azoospermia in your case. Would you DH consider have a scrotal biopsy done to find out, whether or not he does perhaps produce them, but not ejaculate them? There are several couples who are able to have biological children (together with ICSI) where sperm is retrieved through a TESE procedure (or have you already been down that route?).
> I'm afraid I cannot give any advice concerning donor sperm - we ended up not having to go there. Although I have read about lesbian couples purchasing donor sperm, inserting the sperm when ovulating and becoming pregnant. And of course many couples who go the route of IUI with donor sperm and also are successful.
> 
> It is a very tough diagnosis to be faced with and I am sending you hugs and strength. And do cry your eyes out and allow yourself to grieve. The concept of not being able to have biological children with your partner is not easy to reconcile with and is, in its own way, a loss that needs to be grieved before moving on with the next steps.
> :hugs:

Thanks for the support, we dont know what type it is, he is being very stubborn as doesnt wanna spend any money on finding out on what is going on or even see the urilogist which only leaves us with the donor sperm route really. It is coming to the point where I can really see us split up over this issue and if it does come to that I am going to feel like an awful person


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## raelynn

Shazney - First of all, I am so sorry that you have to deal with this diagnosis. I don't think any of us expected this and it does hit you like a ton of bricks. Definitely take time to grieve because it is so hard and unfair.

We have had success with donor sperm. I have an almost 18-month-old daughter and am currently pregnant again with the same donor. It took us a while to get here. We tried IVF first after a successful TESE but lost the baby and decided donor sperm was the route for us. I wouldn't change a thing now looking back. I won't lie, it was very hard leading up to this point but once we held my daughter we knew it was all worth it. We love her to death and her and her daddy are super close. You can certainly PM me if you have any questions but I wanted you to know that you can have a happy ending even in the midst of this azoospermia tragedy.


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## bubumaci

Raelynn - congratulations on your second BFP :hugs: :)

Shazney - it is an incredible difficult diagnosis for us to come to terms with - but I think it is even harder for our men. I remember, DH really didn't want to even get a spermiogramme and kept postponing and postponing. Somehow, I think women are able to cope a bit better with this kind of thing (we are used to going to the gynaecologist etc. etc.) - men are suddenly threatened in their manhood...
Perhaps he just needs some time? Can you find out what the insurance covers - maybe a visit to the urologist would be covered, so it wouldn't cost him / you money to have a first consultation and see whether it is obstructive or not. If obstructive, there would be a good chance of some kind of remedy that would result in getting sperm from him. Or is he even generally against then doing IVF, if you could harvest sperm from him?

How important is having biological children to him? Would he be OK with the donor sperm route? Might I ask what ages you are?
With my DH, I think the older he got, the clearer it was for him that he did want to become a Father and at some point, he even did start considering donor sperm when we went through try after try after try (in the end, he is the biological Daddy, but it really was time, that started changing his mind about things).

One thing that is a definite - any type of infertility struggle is a huge strain on the partnership. You do need to get through it together. Many relationships are strengthened by the struggle ... but there are some, where the strain is just too much. I hope for you, that you find the strength to face and get through the struggles together! :hugs:


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## shazney22

bubumaci said:


> Raelynn - congratulations on your second BFP :hugs: :)
> 
> Shazney - it is an incredible difficult diagnosis for us to come to terms with - but I think it is even harder for our men. I remember, DH really didn't want to even get a spermiogramme and kept postponing and postponing. Somehow, I think women are able to cope a bit better with this kind of thing (we are used to going to the gynaecologist etc. etc.) - men are suddenly threatened in their manhood...
> Perhaps he just needs some time? Can you find out what the insurance covers - maybe a visit to the urologist would be covered, so it wouldn't cost him / you money to have a first consultation and see whether it is obstructive or not. If obstructive, there would be a good chance of some kind of remedy that would result in getting sperm from him. Or is he even generally against then doing IVF, if you could harvest sperm from him?
> 
> How important is having biological children to him? Would he be OK with the donor sperm route? Might I ask what ages you are?
> With my DH, I think the older he got, the clearer it was for him that he did want to become a Father and at some point, he even did start considering donor sperm when we went through try after try after try (in the end, he is the biological Daddy, but it really was time, that started changing his mind about things).
> 
> One thing that is a definite - any type of infertility struggle is a huge strain on the partnership. You do need to get through it together. Many relationships are strengthened by the struggle ... but there are some, where the strain is just too much. I hope for you, that you find the strength to face and get through the struggles together! :hugs:


Hi, I am 27, he is 34. To be honest I think he would rather have his own biological child but I would be happy to go through donor sperm and he says he is okay with this but he is just feeling scared after that diagnosis and I feel like I have to push him to go for more tests I am not wanting us to rush into anything but with us getting older we are both starting to worry. How do they do define if it is obstructive or not? I do feel we both need time to get our head round things.


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## MoBaby

He will need blood test and a testicular biopsy to determine cause if one can be found. Sorry about the diagnosis :( we don't know if my dh is obstructive vs non.


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## shazney22

Thanks for the reply how come they dont know what kind your dh azoospermia is Mobaby?


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## deafgal01

Checkin in. How is everyone doing?


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## MoBaby

shazney: We havent underwent a testicular biopsy. DH is able to squeeze out just enough sperm for ICSI, He usually has around 15-100 per sample. Since he makes enough for them to use we decided not to do the biopsy/mTESE. DH has had 2 previous testicular surgeries- one for testicular torsion on one side and one for a hernia repair on the other side. We are worried a third surgery will make it even worse. We believe he has a blockage but unfortunately the urologist we were with was a total jerk to us and we decided he wasnt touching DH. And the bad part is that dr is the only reproductive urologist around within a 2 hour drive. The other clinic in town uses a different urology practice but they only do punch testicular biopsies (TESE) and that can be a less successful than the mTese. But that group can't do the TESE for the RE clinic I am with because the clinic I am with is hospital based and the urology practice has privileges at a different hospital system. The other RE clinic we went to is private based so can use whoever they want to. I hope that all made sense! I have a consult on Thursday for baby #2 and we are going to ask if there is another urology group that can be recommended because we refuse to use the special urologist recommended. Sorry that was a long explanation! We really need a dr who is going to do the proper work-up instead of being money hungry like the jerk urologist. He told us that DH needs the mTESE and it is $7000 up front since his insurance at the time would not pay and he would not schedule us until we had the money paid. We were never offered a testicular ultrasound. Bloodwork shows mildly increased Fsh and LH for DH. Genetics and chromosomes are completely normal. Everything is more consistent with a blockage than non-obstructive but we really dont know for sure.


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## Deb111

Hi girls

Yet again - frustrated that I dont seem to have a minute to catch up on everyones news but will do soon I promise.

Just wanted to pop on and let you know I've started sniffing today! Aiming for EC beg of December! Xx


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## MoBaby

Hey all! I've had a consult to TTC #2! Looks like we are good to start testing with my next AF so I will have a baseline ultrasound, all labs (AMH, FHS, estradiol, etc) and a saline ultrasound and start birthcontrol. I am not sure if I am starting BCP on CD3 or if I have to wait until decembers AF. I am hoping I can start BCP with AF starting Nov 29th so I can start stims in early Jan. If not the end of Jan. Our only hurdle will be DH providing enough sperm to fertilize eggs. If all else fails they will fertilize what they can and freeze the rest of the eggs. So here we go again. DS is just about 8 months old so we are hoping to be pregnant by the time he is a year :) I am doing a short protocol so no down regulation. Just BCP to AF to stims. I am doing the microdose lupron flare protocol. Its an aggressive protocol used for poor responders. I am not a poor responder but for some reason I do much better on a higher dose of stims and a more aggressive protocol despite normal AMH, FSH and antral follicles. My family has a history of premature ovarian failure in mid to late 30's so I wonder if that has something to do with it. I think we had 19 mature eggs from my last cycle using this protocol. Unfortunately we used all our frosties getting my DS so we are starting all over :)

Deb: How exciting!!! FX for you. Is your DH going for a biopsy again?


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## rdleela

Best of luck, Deb and MoBaby!


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## bubumaci

ooohhhh ... good luck :dance:


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## shazney22

Hi ladies how is everyone? Thats my OH booked in for a consultation with a urologist so will just take it one step at a time its all we can do.


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## Deb111

Cycle not going well. Not really responding to stimming. Only 1 decent follicle after 5 days of injecting. Apparently a few other insignificant ones which they are hoping will grow. We werent expecting many ... but 1?? :nope:


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## deafgal01

That sucks!


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## MoBaby

Deb :( so sorry!!


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## bubumaci

Oh no, I'm sorry thar your ovaries aren't responding well yet. Maybe the others will suddenly catch up. Or maybe, that one is your little miracle?
:hug: :kiss:


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## shazney22

:hugs: So sorry Deb


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## raelynn

Deb, sorry you aren't responding. Are they considering switching your meds? I've heard of ladies on here not responding to one set of stims and then responding great to other meds. Hoping for this to turn around for you!


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## SunUp

Thinking of you, Deb, and hoping things turn out well :) 

As for me, planning FET in mid December! Taking my last BC this week and then injections! Yikes! At least we will be super busy in the TWW getting ready for the holidays. Right now, we are planning on only transferring one of our 8 frozen (we would MAX be allowed two at this time per my clinic). Unless they don't thaw well or something. :dust:

Happy Thanksgiving to the other US ladies :)


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## rdleela

Awh Deb I'm sorry, that's gotta be frustrating! Are they able to save this cycle or will it be cancelled? Best wishes!

Best of luck sunup!


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## Deb111

So I have 2 fairly equal size follicles and lining is looking great. The feeling from both clinics is that with my age, amh etc, a new cycle on different meds is not likely to give much different results and we know I respond to these meds because of my last cycle. So ... I trigger 9pm saturday and EC first thing monday morning!


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## deafgal01

Good luck Deb. I'll keep praying and hoping for you! You too Sun Up!


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## bubumaci

Everything crossed for you! We prefer quality over quantity :kiss:
:dust::dust::dust:


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## Jacks10

Debs have everything crossed for you that you get good eggies and DH swimmers today (if you doing another synched cycle). If it can work with a handful of sperm, then it can definitely work with only one/two eggs! Sending you positive thoughts!!! Xxxx


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## MoBaby

Good luck today deb!! Fx for you :)


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## tulip11

hi
we have been waiting for our appointment letter for SSR as our next step in Sheffield. They told us that we will get this letter in 4-6 weeks today its been 5 weeks and still nothing but what made us to be worried as my husband received a call that come on Tuesday morning we will do your weight . now i am thinking whether after this will they send our medical report to Sheffield or what again we will wait so long.
Modify message


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## Deb111

3 eggs and enough sperm in what they thawed :thumbup:
Roll on tomorrows fertilisation report!


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: Yay Deb. Keeping everything I have on me crossed for you!


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## MoBaby

Yay!!! Congrats :)


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## Jacks10

Great news! :happydance:


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## Deb111

2 of the 3 eggs were suitable for injecting. 1 didnt survive injecting and other didnt fertilise


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## Jacks10

:hugs::hugs::hugs: Oh deb, that's devastating. I'm sorry. Sending many, many hugs xxxx


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## deafgal01

It only takes one. Good luck Deb


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## Deb111

deafgal01 said:


> It only takes one. Good luck Deb

There are none ... only 2 were mature; 1 of those didnt survive injecting and the other 1 hasnt fertilised


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## Jacks10

:-( :-(:-(:-(

Hope you are feeling supported deb, I know you said you planned to have only one more go, so it must feel truly heartbreaking to have it stopped at this stage. We all go through so much sadness on the azoo journey, it's just not fair :nope:


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## deafgal01

That sucks! Hug your baby girl more this week. Hope she understands one day you dd try to give her a sibling.


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## tulip11

Deb I am so sorry. 

as for me today my hubby went as they called him for again weighing so he is now 99 before he was 103 . so they said now the doctor may send everything forward for referral and may take further 6 weeks . i waited these last 5 weeks as i thought they have already referred us and waited for appointment letter but now again the wait started from the scratch :(


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## SunUp

Big hugs, Deb. I am so sorry.


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## MoBaby

:hugs: soo sorry :(


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## rdleela

Oh deb, I'm so sorry! Big hugs xoxo


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## raelynn

Deb I am so sorry. That is truly heartbreaking to have it end like that.


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## bubumaci

Sending you huge hugs Deb! I really was hoping for good news for you :hugs:

Tulip, that is so annoying. Why do you have to wait so long? I don't understand... :hugs:


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## tulip11

bubumaci said:


> Sending you huge hugs Deb! I really was hoping for good news for you :hugs:
> 
> Tulip, that is so annoying. Why do you have to wait so long? I don't understand... :hugs:

Well first they said that hubby is slightly overweight so he must reduced beloew 100 which he did. But in previous appointment when they filled the forms everything so they said we will refer you to Sheffield and you guys will get an appointment within 6 weeks so I waited and its been 5 weeks last monday . Then last week my hubby got a call that come to hospital for checking weight again so he is 99 on digital scale and on other scales in home he is round about 95 kg. I dont know why hospital scales shows higher than others. Then yesterday said that now we will decide to refer you to Sheffield so you guys may hear within 6 weeks from us. They should have told us before all this one said the weight is okay other says no its not due to which we didnt send I dont know why.


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## deafgal01

:grr: so annoying when they mess with you by changing their answers. Might as well get it all in writing in case you have to fight them later.


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## MoBaby

Tulip that is truly annoying! They are not strict with weight limits here in the us which is good and bad....There is a huge obesity problem in US so if there were limits I imagine they would be doing way less IVF. My DH is overweight (127 kg but 6'5) and he has no motivation to lose weight so if we had restrictions on weight we would never get to do IVF. Hopefully its all sorted out soon.


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## shazney22

OH went for his consultation today, he has to get his FSH levels test and genetic testing, turns out he has an Inguinal Hernia and has to get that pain relieved first, if FSH is level 10 doctor wont do a biopsy. Also testicles are smaller than normal and are different sizes. Has anyone ever heard of this? If the FSH is high we need to consider donor sperm.


----------



## Tryin4miracle

Ok so just joining this group and I am very thankful to have found it. In a nutshell here is my story. 

My husband and I concevieed naturally within 6 months of going off birth control in 2008. We were trying for our second in 2010 and after a year of ttc I spoke with my dr. She recommended my husband be checked first since his would be less invasive. His sa came back with 0 sperm. This was a blow so they said he should wait three months and get checked again. Second one was the same. We meet with a urologist and it was discovered my husband has a small pituitary tumor. He went on meds it shrunk but sperm is still at 0. We have been to two different fertility clinics but first one was not interested in exploring why and just wanted us to use ds and my husband was not open to that option. At second clinic dr had been great. He has wanted to figure out what is going on. My DH had two seperate procedures done that show he has active spermatozoa and no blockage. That urologist could not give us a reason on why sperm is not coming out. After a two year break, we went through IVF 11/12 and have 13 eggs frozen, we are now trying again. During our break an old college girlfriend contacted my husband and informed him that she believes her 13 year old son is his. After DNA it was confirmed that my husband fathered her child. This has left both our fertility dr and Us perplexed as to what happened to MY husband. We have found a urologist that specializes in male infertility and is very confident that he will find sperm to use for icsi during a TeSA procedure. We are now doing a timed mini stim cycle so that they can control ovulation and time my husbands procedure for day before. I'm reaching out to see if anyone else has been in a similar situation and has anyone had succes with TeSA. When my husband provides samples they on occasion have found one or two sperm. Recently they have found sperm but it isnt moving. I'm trying not to get my hopes up but would love to hear success stories or if anyone has been in a similar situation.


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## deafgal01

Wow. Sorry to hear you found yourself in same boat as rest of us but i am glad they are trying to figure out what happened, especially since he was capable of doing it before and actually having a kid with his genes out there.

I don't have success story or anything for you but several ladies here have success stories either using their spouse's sperm from tese. Some have had donors help get their babies.


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## Tryin4miracle

Deafgal01

I seen that your husbands results had high prolactin. Did they check to see if he had a pituitary tumor? My husband had a slightly raised prolactin level and was found to have a small pituitary tumor. Unfortunately the medication did not help for my husband.


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## deafgal01

No they didn't check for tumors or anything. They only explored to see if it was a blockage issue. We didn't push for more tests or exams after that because my husband didn't see the point of going through more than already necessary.


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## Jacks10

Deb, how are you doing? Thinking of you still, hope you're ok xxx
arzoo have you had your babes now? 

Shazney and trying, hope you're both managing ok. Trying I don't know much aboit about pituitary tumours sorry but fingers crossed you get some sperm from the tesa. If dh has fathered child before then you are starting from a good position, stay positive! 

How is everyone else? Xxx


----------



## melissaelaine

tulip11 said:


> bubumaci said:
> 
> 
> Sending you huge hugs Deb! I really was hoping for good news for you :hugs:
> 
> Tulip, that is so annoying. Why do you have to wait so long? I don't understand... :hugs:
> 
> Well first they said that hubby is slightly overweight so he must reduced beloew 100 which he did. But in previous appointment when they filled the forms everything so they said we will refer you to Sheffield and you guys will get an appointment within 6 weeks so I waited and its been 5 weeks last monday . Then last week my hubby got a call that come to hospital for checking weight again so he is 99 on digital scale and on other scales in home he is round about 95 kg. I dont know why hospital scales shows higher than others. Then yesterday said that now we will decide to refer you to Sheffield so you guys may hear within 6 weeks from us. They should have told us before all this one said the weight is okay other says no its not due to which we didnt send I dont know why.Click to expand...

Just now seeing this. I am sorry you're going through this. We went through a similar issue with our clinic when we were doing IVF. They apparently adopted a new policy regarding weight limits and sedation and anesthesia after we'd started going to the clinic and I found out a few weeks before our cycle was supposed to start. I was lucky to get my weight down, but it was close. DH wasn't close and if they had needed to do a TESE on him, he would have only gotten local numbing and no sedation. I can't imagine how painful that would have been. We got really like that he had enough swimmers on the day of ER.


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## tulip11

Finally relieved after a long wait still gonna wait for 1 month .
today we got an appointment letter with lots of forms , at jessopfertility Sheffield.**
Now dont know whether on same day after assessment they will gonna proceed for SSR or again will send another letter.
but I was thinking it would be only for my husband but along with him they mentioned my name as well. They said fill one form which has to be send back before appointment.


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## deafgal01

Could be they're checking both of you thoroughly, Tulip. Idk. Or maybe they want you there as his support in case the news isn't great.

How's everyone doing? I'm having lots of good days lately even though I'm nowhere near a bfp or pregnant.


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## SunUp

DG, SO glad to hear you are having more good days!

Hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas!!


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## bubumaci

Very happy to hear that you are having good days!! :wohoo:

Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas xoxoxo


----------



## NikkiR143

shazney22 said:


> OH went for his consultation today, he has to get his FSH levels test and genetic testing, turns out he has an Inguinal Hernia and has to get that pain relieved first, if FSH is level 10 doctor wont do a biopsy. Also testicles are smaller than normal and are different sizes. Has anyone ever heard of this? If the FSH is high we need to consider donor sperm.

Hey,

My DH had an ingunial hernia as well. They said it was an emergency and did the surgery to correct it back in August of 2014. When they went in, they found a hydrocele as well which had to be operated on. Now, 4 months later, his testicle is still swollen. Turns out there's accumulation of blood in his scrotum (called a hematocele) that will reabsorb on its own, but it makes TESE more difficult, but still doable. A little background, my DH has one undescended testicle, and one "normal" testicle. But he has been diagnosed with cryptozoospermia. He had a few hidden sperm in his ejaculation, but only 2 to 5 total. So TESE with IVF and ICSI is our only option. His FSH is also elevated, but all genetics and other hormones are normal (including his testosterone). So doc says it's unexplained, but seems confident enough he'll find sperm with TESE for ICSI and IVF. 

Our stories are somewhat similar. Have you had a second opinion from another urologist? There's something called sperm mapping too, where they can try to determine which parts of the testicle are producing sperm before operating. Maybe something you can look into?


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## NikkiR143

Hello everyone,

I haven't been on this site in quite some time. I took a break from everything, but am now ready to jump back in. Update- Urologist put DH on Anastrozole (Arimidex) to try to raise his sperm count. The last two SA's showed only 2 to 5 sperm total, either immotile or twitching. Urologist is hoping this medication will raise his sperm count enough to avoid TESE, but if not we're scheduled to do the TESE at the end of March (given we pay the $7,500 that is due for the surgery :-(. If we can avoid surgery, we get our money back. I had a ultrasound of my uterus done and a saline test (I forget the proper names) and my fertility doc says I look great (no scarring, etc...) so that's good news. He said given my age, our chances are good. But, after all is said and done it will cost us 23k for IVF with ICSI & TESE through Kaiser in CA. Another thing I have to take into consideration, is once the IVF process starts the doctor told me I have to go to his office every other day (for a month I suppose?). That's going to be difficult to do with work, but maybe my boss will understand me coming in late every other day if I just tell him the truth about what is going on. Anyone else work through this process? How did you deal with that? Also, is anyone familiar with anastrozole to raise sperm counts? Did any of your DH's get prescribed this? I hear a lot about clomid, but not so much anastrozole. Happy holidays to everyone as well! I know this time of year can be difficult without children, but keep your heads up. Trying to stay as positive as possible.


----------



## shazney22

nicolew412 said:


> shazney22 said:
> 
> 
> OH went for his consultation today, he has to get his FSH levels test and genetic testing, turns out he has an Inguinal Hernia and has to get that pain relieved first, if FSH is level 10 doctor wont do a biopsy. Also testicles are smaller than normal and are different sizes. Has anyone ever heard of this? If the FSH is high we need to consider donor sperm.
> 
> Hey,
> 
> My DH had an ingunial hernia as well. They said it was an emergency and did the surgery to correct it back in August of 2014. When they went in, they found a hydrocele as well which had to be operated on. Now, 4 months later, his testicle is still swollen. Turns out there's accumulation of blood in his scrotum (called a hematocele) that will reabsorb on its own, but it makes TESE more difficult, but still doable. A little background, my DH has one undescended testicle, and one "normal" testicle. But he has been diagnosed with cryptozoospermia. He had a few hidden sperm in his ejaculation, but only 2 to 5 total. So TESE with IVF and ICSI is our only option. His FSH is also elevated, but all genetics and other hormones are normal (including his testosterone). So doc says it's unexplained, but seems confident enough he'll find sperm with TESE for ICSI and IVF.
> 
> Our stories are somewhat similar. Have you had a second opinion from another urologist? There's something called sperm mapping too, where they can try to determine which parts of the testicle are producing sperm before operating. Maybe something you can look into?Click to expand...

Yeah very simliar stories I was beginning to think no one had anything like this before. Is this fertility issue caused by the hernia? I havent had a second opinion, its because my OH has a heart condition and if level is over 10 they wont operate or would advise us not too, he also has a genetic condition and wont do anything until we go for genetic counselling, this is a private urologist too, he has advised donor sperm which I am going to go ahead with as every route seems blocked with OH's condition. The urologist feels its likely he has got primary testicular failure according to the letter we got today.


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## tulip11

Does they perform SSR on same day of assessment ? We received some consent forms for both of us , two forms have been filled and sent back to them as requested.


----------



## arzoo

Hello everyone. I hvnt been here in the last couple of months. Sorry to see new people have joined. A quick update from me - i am now mum of 1 month old twins. Something which it thought would never happen. Thank you for all the support during the dark days I don't know how I would have survived without all your support. 

deb : how are you ?


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## bubumaci

<3 that update! Merry Christmas :kiss:


----------



## MoBaby

Congrats arzo!


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## Rainbow123

Congratulations Arzoo! 
XXX


----------



## tulip11

arzoo said:


> Hello everyone. I hvnt been here in the last couple of months. Sorry to see new people have joined. A quick update from me - i am now mum of 1 month old twins. Something which it thought would never happen. Thank you for all the support during the dark days I don't know how I would have survived without all your support.
> 
> deb : how are you ?

congratulations :)


----------



## Tryin4miracle

Hi Ladies

Well on 12/14 my husband had his third TESE procedure. After thinking we had exhausted all options and nearly giving up we went for a third opinion and this amazing doctor after reviewing all of my husbands medical records gave us hope. He put my husband on clomid and some vitamins and we coordinated my husbands TESE procedure with a mini stimulation IvF cycle for me. This new urologist was able to collect enough sperm from my husband to use not only for this cycle but to freeze so he would never have to undergo this procedure again. On 12/15 we thawed my 13 eggs and fertilized 12, one didn't make it. On day two 7 were progressing and on day 3 we transferred 2 grade A 8 cell embryos. On day 6 one more made it to blastocyst stage and we were able to freeze that one. We are currently in our tww. This has been a dream that has taken almost 5 years. The lesson that my husband and I have learned is never give up. No doctor was able to give us a reason why my husband no longer was producing sperm. We almost gave up. I encourage everyone to follow their heart and continue to seek answers. Medical technology is constantly changing. Our first fertility clinic told us our only option was donor sperm. While we do not know if this cycle was successful we are both thankful to be given a chance. There is hope. A dear friend of mine gave me this inspirational saying "sometimes all you can do is Not think, Not wonder, Not imagine, Not obsess. Just breath and have faith because miracles do happen" I have been focusing on this daily. Wishing and praying for all of you, everyone's miracle is around the corner we just need to have faith.


----------



## bubumaci

Awww! My fingers are tightly crossed for you! What a great Christmas present that would be! :dust::dust::dust:


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## Stinas

Hope everyone is doing well!!! Not easy to come on and do as many updates as I would like with these two little monsters! lol 

Arzoo - Congrats!!! Twinkies are a TON of work, but soo worth it!! Enjoy every moment!


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## MoBaby

hey tryin fx for you!!! thanks for the inspirational quote :)


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## Tryin4miracle

Thanks MoBaby

So I took a hpt today which is 12dp3dt and it was negative. What are the chances that I may still be pregnant? I go for my beta test on Friday. Hoping for the best but mentally trying to prepare for the worst. We do have one embryo that was frozen on day 6 but we will probably need to do a fresh cycle as I have no more frozen eggs. Anyone have a positive beta after a negative HPT?


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## MoBaby

Tryin so sorry :( what type of test was it.

Changes are slim but not impossible. Wish you could have seen your bfp!


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## SunUp

Hey ladies! Hope that this new year brings lots more azoo baby blessings!!

AFM, didn't get my Christmas miracle (FET was negative) but we are trying again with another FET again as soon as my cycle starts, so keep your fingers crossed for me please!!


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## MoBaby

Aww sunup. Sorry! Fx next one works :)


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## rdleela

Congrats Arzoo!

Sorry this FET didn't work, sunup, but you sound really positive about trying again! Best of luck!

Trying4miracle, hoping for the best for you; don't give up if this cycle isn't it!

I'm going back to work full-time tomorrow, so I'm going to be even busier, but I think of all of you lots! Happy New Year and all the best for all of us in 2015!


----------



## Tryin4miracle

Hi ladies 
Thanks for your words of encouragement. Test today was a BFN as expected but doesn't make the sting any less. Our doctor is on vacation so we will wait until next week to schedule to meet with him. I'm trying to focus on the fact that we have one frozen embryo and hopefully we have frozen sperm at the urologists office. Our fertility clinic was unable to freeze what was left once they fertilized my eggs. It's been a long five years but this is the closest we have ever gotten. I need to focus on that. Good luck to all you and thanks for being so supportive. It's so much easier to come to this board as no one in my family or friends have ever had to deal with infertility.


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## deafgal01

:hug: trying sounds like you have a plan.


----------



## tulip11

hi everyone
today we had our first app at Jessop sheffield it went very well. They said next month they will first do something with help of needle then another followup in march they gave us dates ... and yes my hubby fsh is 11.5 they said its not 13.2 which I thought it was but I was wrong so dr said that its very near to normal so there is a hope.
so anyone whose hubby FSH was round about 11.5 and found some sperms ?


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## MoBaby

Tulip my DH has fsh of 11 and he has sperm :) (I need to find exact fsh#) a few but they are there! Good luck with your appt!

I started injections today for #2.


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## tulip11

MoBaby said:


> Tulip my DH has fsh of 11 and he has sperm :) (I need to find exact fsh#) a few but they are there! Good luck with your appt!
> 
> I started injections today for #2.

Wow hun you truly gave me some hope. Thanks a lot.
wish you all the very best :hugs:


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## NikkiR143

We finally have a concrete plan, and I couldn't be more excited! DH has been on anastrozole for 2 months. He goes for semen analysis on January 30th. If the medication has worked, and there's enough sperm to freeze, he'll go for a 2nd semen analysis a week later and they'll freeze what they find. This is best case scenario. If there are still only a couple immotile sperm, than he goes for a TESE surgery on March 19th. We paid $7500 out of pocket for this. We get the $ back if they are able to use sperm from his semen, but if not at least the surgery is scheduled. On my end, I've had the saline ultrasound, blood work, HSG, and mock transfer. Everything looks perfect. I got for the IVF consultation with my infertility doctor on February 2nd. I will start birth control pills shortly after. I'm paying $11,900 out of pocket for the IVF + ICSI. They said meds will cost 3k to 5k, hoping since the problem is him, and not me I'll be on the lower side for medication. My actual IVF cycle begins April 19th. Case manager says I'll be on birth control for a month or two, start stims (meds) around April 9th, and retrieval + transfer will occur the week of April 19th. So if all goes as planned, I should know if I'm pregnant or not by the first week of May. Ahhh, I'm so excited and nervous! After depleting our savings account, and paying $23,000 after all is said and done, I'm praying this works the first time. I know I have high hopes, but I'm trying to stay positive. I bought the book "the secret". I'm going to read it and keep a positive state of mind throughout this whole process. I've also looked into acupuncture to prepare our bodies for this journey. I can't believe everything is finally going to happen.


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## melissaelaine

nicolew412 said:


> We finally have a concrete plan, and I couldn't be more excited! DH has been on anastrozole for 2 months. He goes for semen analysis on January 30th. If the medication has worked, and there's enough sperm to freeze, he'll go for a 2nd semen analysis a week later and they'll freeze what they find. This is best case scenario. If there are still only a couple immotile sperm, than he goes for a TESE surgery on March 19th. We paid $7500 out of pocket for this. We get the $ back if they are able to use sperm from his semen, but if not at least the surgery is scheduled. On my end, I've had the saline ultrasound, blood work, HSG, and mock transfer. Everything looks perfect. I got for the IVF consultation with my infertility doctor on February 2nd. I will start birth control pills shortly after. I'm paying $11,900 out of pocket for the IVF + ICSI. They said meds will cost 3k to 5k, hoping since the problem is him, and not me I'll be on the lower side for medication. My actual IVF cycle begins April 19th. Case manager says I'll be on birth control for a month or two, start stims (meds) around April 9th, and retrieval + transfer will occur the week of April 19th. So if all goes as planned, I should know if I'm pregnant or not by the first week of May. Ahhh, I'm so excited and nervous! After depleting our savings account, and paying $23,000 after all is said and done, I'm praying this works the first time. I know I have high hopes, but I'm trying to stay positive. I bought the book "the secret". I'm going to read it and keep a positive state of mind throughout this whole process. I've also looked into acupuncture to prepare our bodies for this journey. I can't believe everything is finally going to happen.

I wish you the best! This plan sounds similar to ours. DH had varying sperm counts, some as low as 3, some as high as 100,000, but they never thought that was even enough to freeze. They had him on clomid for a while, which helped some with his testosterone levels, but didn't help much with his sperm count. We finally decided to move forward with IVF and the plan was to do a TESE the day of my ER if they weren't able to get enough sperm from his sample. We felt so lucky that he had enough sperm in his sample the day of my ER and he got out of the TESE! I hope the same for you all!


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## NikkiR143

1


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## NikkiR143

melissaelaine said:


> nicolew412 said:
> 
> 
> We finally have a concrete plan, and I couldn't be more excited! DH has been on anastrozole for 2 months. He goes for semen analysis on January 30th. If the medication has worked, and there's enough sperm to freeze, he'll go for a 2nd semen analysis a week later and they'll freeze what they find. This is best case scenario. If there are still only a couple immotile sperm, than he goes for a TESE surgery on March 19th. We paid $7500 out of pocket for this. We get the $ back if they are able to use sperm from his semen, but if not at least the surgery is scheduled. On my end, I've had the saline ultrasound, blood work, HSG, and mock transfer. Everything looks perfect. I got for the IVF consultation with my infertility doctor on February 2nd. I will start birth control pills shortly after. I'm paying $11,900 out of pocket for the IVF + ICSI. They said meds will cost 3k to 5k, hoping since the problem is him, and not me I'll be on the lower side for medication. My actual IVF cycle begins April 19th. Case manager says I'll be on birth control for a month or two, start stims (meds) around April 9th, and retrieval + transfer will occur the week of April 19th. So if all goes as planned, I should know if I'm pregnant or not by the first week of May. Ahhh, I'm so excited and nervous! After depleting our savings account, and paying $23,000 after all is said and done, I'm praying this works the first time. I know I have high hopes, but I'm trying to stay positive. I bought the book "the secret". I'm going to read it and keep a positive state of mind throughout this whole process. I've also looked into acupuncture to prepare our bodies for this journey. I can't believe everything is finally going to happen.
> 
> I wish you the best! This plan sounds similar to ours. DH had varying sperm counts, some as low as 3, some as high as 100,000, but they never thought that was even enough to freeze. They had him on clomid for a while, which helped some with his testosterone levels, but didn't help much with his sperm count. We finally decided to move forward with IVF and the plan was to do a TESE the day of my ER if they weren't able to get enough sperm from his sample. We felt so lucky that he had enough sperm in his sample the day of my ER and he got out of the TESE! I hope the same for you all!Click to expand...

Yes, very similar. My DH has only had 2 full semen analysis' and the first only had 5 sperm, and the 2nd only 2. So I do think TESE is what we'll have to do. His urologist said he only uses frozen sperm, he thinks it's better. I have no idea why. The studies I read say fresh is better, but he said those studies are outdated and new studies show frozen is better. So who knows... My DH's testosterone has gone from 400 to over 1200 on anastrozole. It's more than tripled. I was actually worried it was too high but the doctor said this is good. It means his brain is working well. haha. Well, I want his testicle to work well! I guess we'll find out more with his next semen analysis. If/when they do the TESE surgery in March, they'll freeze what they find there, and use it with my IVF cycle in April. Just praying they find good, usable sperm. If no sperm is found, I'll cancel my IVF cycle, get my $$ back, and use my insurance to do IUI with donor sperm. We only get one shot at this. :/ I see IVF worked for you the first round! That's so exciting. Any tips you can give me? Where are you located?


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## MoBaby

nicole we are paying that same amount out of pocket (minus the tese)....but I have to pay for some diagnostic test for infertility my insurance didnt pay for. its awful it cost so much!! We have officially spent almost all our savings on having a baby and maternity leave since it took so much to have baby #1 and now we are trying for #2. Paid the bill last week. Good luck with your appointments!


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## SunUp

Mo! When's your estimated transfer expected? Or do you have an estimate?


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## MoBaby

Hey sun up! I'm thinking retrieval around feb 4th of cycle goes like my last with transfer on the 9th :)


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## SunUp

Yay, mo! We will be PUPO together if everything goes to plan!!


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## MoBaby

Yay!!!


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## melissaelaine

nicolew412 said:


> Yes, very similar. My DH has only had 2 full semen analysis' and the first only had 5 sperm, and the 2nd only 2. So I do think TESE is what we'll have to do. His urologist said he only uses frozen sperm, he thinks it's better. I have no idea why. The studies I read say fresh is better, but he said those studies are outdated and new studies show frozen is better. So who knows... My DH's testosterone has gone from 400 to over 1200 on anastrozole. It's more than tripled. I was actually worried it was too high but the doctor said this is good. It means his brain is working well. haha. Well, I want his testicle to work well! I guess we'll find out more with his next semen analysis. If/when they do the TESE surgery in March, they'll freeze what they find there, and use it with my IVF cycle in April. Just praying they find good, usable sperm. If no sperm is found, I'll cancel my IVF cycle, get my $$ back, and use my insurance to do IUI with donor sperm. We only get one shot at this. :/ I see IVF worked for you the first round! That's so exciting. Any tips you can give me? Where are you located?

Hey Nicole! We did have success during our first IVF and I feel so grateful for that. I know how lucky we got. I think it helped that we did ICSI because they only needed and not sperm for the eggs they retrieved. So for us it is they only need it 12 quality sperm. It was easier to get that than a full sperm sample that they would need without ICSI. I think that is how we got out of the TESE. We cycled in Atlanta when we were living there. Shortly after I got my BFP, we moved back home to Kentucky. If we have to do an FET later, will probably go back to Atlanta for it. As for tips, I think a lot of it is a learning process. We got lucky that I stimulated relatively well the first time around. The doctor had some concerns that I could be a little responder but I turned out to be pretty average. We were also worried that there could be a chromosomal problem with the sperm and were never able to do the DNA testing of the sperm. So we learned a lot during fertilization. But really, that all could've gone either way. I think it's good that you all are already open to donor sperm. We were almost there too if the situation have required it. We certainly wanted to try everything we could before going down that route but we were ready to do an IUI cycle with donor sperm if we learned during IVF cycle that our odds of success otherwise were zero. I really do wish you the best. It can be extremely frustrating on both sides during this process. I think it's important to support each other no matter what.


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## MoBaby

Hi ladies! I had ER today. The results were a little disappointing. I began the cycle with 35 follicles. Half of those were growing and were over 10mm and the others were lagging. On saturday 19 follicles were ready to go and the other 17 they counted were lagging behind. I blame this on a medication error. I was on a much higher dose before and this cycle they cut me down because my estrogen from the start was okay but my 48 hour level didnt double and they told me to continue the same amount. I should have questioned it but I followed the drs orders. Today they were able to collect 22 eggs. Unfortunately DH produced a sample and it contained zero sperm. A few hours later he did another with zero sperm. They had 4 frozen vials and were able to fertilize what were mature- 13 eggs. 5 eggs were not mature and 4 were degenerating already so they did not inject those. Tomorrow we should know fertilization results. I am a bit disappointed more were not collected since we started with so many and upset with myself for not speaking up when I thought changes should be made. This is the last IVF cycle DH and I will go through so these results are weighing heavily on my heart. I want a sibling for DS so bad and I am realizing I may not have that chance again. So please hope for us, pray for us that our 13 injected with ICSI will become something and we will have a couple to use at least. I hope everyone else is doing okay!


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## melissaelaine

Hey Mo! I am sorry to hear that the results weren't what you expected! I know how hard that can be. Keep hope though! Maybe the best of the best survived! We only got 12 eggs from my retrieval and even with DH's crummy sperm, still ended up with 1 blast to transfer and 3 to freeze. I am 20 weeks pregnant now with the one we transferred!


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## MoBaby

thats great!! with our last IVF cycle (Same protocol) we got 6 blasts from 12 embryos also and froze 4 but it took all of them to get my DS! (MC, 2 chemicals and a bfp)! So we are keeping our fingers crossed. Thank you for the words of encouragement!


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## arzoo

Mo, don't worry about numbers. I went thru the same worry during our cycle Bd dh kept reminding me saying - t's quality and not quantity that matters. We started with 18 eggs and today I mum to twins :)


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## rdleela

It's your last IVF so of course you're feeling the pressure, girl! 13 eggs to fertilize is a pretty damn good number; hopefully your fert report is fantastic! FX'd!


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## NikkiR143

I have a question for you ladies. I met with infertility doc yesterday. He said that most women going through IVF want the "aggressive" protocol when it comes to medication and the stimming period because they want as many eggs as possible. However, I'm worried about OHSS. I don't have any issues. I've had the saline sonogram, blood work, and the HSG. My tubes and uterus are clear, and my hormones are perfect. Obf we are doing this because of the DH, which he knows. I told the doctor my fear, but I told him that I trust his expertise. He said he would take it all into consideration. I'm still months away from stimming. I'm just worried either I won't get high enough dosages now to produce enough eggs (since I opened my big mouth) or I'll over stimulate and have to cancel the cycle. Cancelling this cycle is my worst fear. I want this to move forward, no matter what. I just have no idea how my ovaries will react to the medication. In other news, I start BC pills around Feb 9th (2nd day of my next period). I just applied for Compassionate Care and First Steps to help with the cost of medication. I was feeling really overwhelmed looking at the calendar that my case manager put together for me. I'm scared about doing injections. And I still have to talk to my boss about the time I'll need off. So much to think about....it's stressful :/


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## rdleela

Nicole, unfortunately, there is just no real way to know how your body will respond until you start stimming. Everything was perfect on my end, and we ended up getting a crap number of eggs, high estrogen, half a trigger, and a Hail Mary throwing in two embryos that were perfect but didn't stick. Going into my second IVF, I'm more confident in making decisions, and I also am letting go of trying to control anything, cause you just never know how it's going to work out. It sucks cause we want it to work SO bad, and it's such a high cost, emotionally, physically and financially. It's kinda a step-by-step, learn through experience kinda thing. I read a LOT before, and it helped when it came to asking the right questions. All I can say is good luck, it's a roller coaster! But a roller coaster a lot of us have no problem hopping back on, time and time again :)


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## MoBaby

Nicole it is a balance. The dr will change your meds based on estrogen levels after you start. They won't do anything intentional to harm you. If you do hyper stimulate they can do the transfer in a couple cycles when you heal. I wish my re would have been more aggressive this time but if he would have been I probably would have hyperstinulated.

So we have 9 embryos growing. Saturday is et. Re suggest one embryo but I want two. Depends on quality. If they won't freeze one that is a blast then I want 2. If they can freeze the other blasts then one is okay.


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## melissaelaine

I agree with the others, Nicole. It's a balance. My RE suggested he would do a medium aggressive protocol if I hit certain numbers on one of my tests, which I did hit. But he put me on the more aggressive protocol anyway. I was concerned about overstimulating, but in the end I only had 12 eggs, so that was really not a necessary concern. IVF, unfortunately, is sometimes an experimentation especially the first time. Even if you hit road bumps, you learn a lot along the way!

Mo- Hoping the embryos grow grow grow!!!


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## MoBaby

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Yesterday we transferred one perfect grade A blast. Today we received a call 5 embryos were frozen! I absolutely can not believe this and I am amazed. I never thought we would have frozen embryos again. My OTD is feb 16 so please keep everything crossed that we get our bfp!!! I'm off work the next 3 days because I don't want the stress so hopefully I stay sane. I took hcg 2500 units this morning as a booster so I can't test for several days :(


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## rdleela

Fabulous news!! Best of luck!!


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## deafgal01

Good luck Mo!


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## NikkiR143

MoBaby said:


> Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
> 
> Yesterday we transferred one perfect grade A blast. Today we received a call 5 embryos were frozen! I absolutely can not believe this and I am amazed. I never thought we would have frozen embryos again. My OTD is feb 16 so please keep everything crossed that we get our bfp!!! I'm off work the next 3 days because I don't want the stress so hopefully I stay sane. I took hcg 2500 units this morning as a booster so I can't test for several days :(

Good luck!!


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## SunUp

How is everyone doing? Any updates?


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## MoBaby

My beta is tomorrow however its going to be negative or very very low. Ive had positives for several days that were getting darker but last night started getting lighter and today it was very light. I suspect negative by tomorrow. So we will be discussing a FET cycle soon. Hopefully I can start meds with my AF this cycle.


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## SunUp

Thinking of you, Mo!


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## MoBaby

Beta was 30, this isn't going to end well.


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## Hopeful Cat

MoBaby said:


> Beta was 30, this isn't going to end well.

I dont know about beta numbers but im hoping u are wrong and this is ur little fighter. Thinking of you xx


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## ljbea

I am curious if anybody has dealt with azoospermia possibly the doctors think caused by elevated prolactin? My DH has been on Cabergoline for 6 months and still no sperm have returned. Has anybody had the same issue and if so how long did it take for sperm to return or if they never did? Any insight would be great.


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## rdleela

Ljbea, sorry, I'm no help, hopefully someone here has some info for you...

Mo, I'm hopeful for you that those betas will start to double! Wishing for the best for you!!


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## tulip11

Hi
yesterday was my hubby first ssr so first they took fluid part twice from storage area so they said nothing found then they moved towards testicles tissue and they said its a good sample. Then they brought back my hubby to the room and nurses told me its a brilliant news. We were so happy that at last something we found. But after 1 and half hour the doctor and other staff member came to the room and said that we are sorry after further examining the sample we didnt find anything. But we asked them first you said its good and now not how did it happen. They said so mostly the tissues which makes pockets and inside these the sperms are embedded if these tissues looks good heathy so we assume there must be sperms present and most of the time it is there so when we saw healthy tissues so we were confirmed sperms would be there but later on we didnt find anything. Now they have send it to histology department . So just for a short time we were happy. Is there anyone here who went through such phase and still found some sperm later on. Is this the end of journey or what ? Should we carry on further tests or should we consult dr Ramsey ? I am totally broken and my hubby fsh is 11.5 and all other tests are normal.


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## bubumaci

ljbea - I really cannot comment on that. We don't know if DH ever had sperm for it to "return" - at least in higher and more healthy quantities, than what have occasionally been found. He has had spermiogrammes with nothing found, and some, where the have found a few hundred thousand (I think 250K was the max), but all with little to no motility / very poor morphology.

Tulip - I am sorry to hear that this has happened! :( So frustrating that they gave you a light of hope, just to shoot it down again! All I can say from our experience is, that DH had the odd sample, where they found enough sperm to fertilise for ICSI, but that was it. Our final try (last year February), he underwent TESE on the day of my egg retrieval. I was already prepped for the surgery and the nurse came in to tell me, that the TESE sample was completely useless - so for fertilisation, they would be thawing three straws of sperm we had frozen.

I have no idea about Dr. Ramsey - living in Germany - but I have heard of many people, who have had success with him.


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## MoBaby

Tulip I so sorry there were no sperm. My dh never had ssr so I haven't any advice or insight. I've heard dr Ramsey is excellent as well.


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## arzoo

Tulip : we were under the care of mr Ramsey. Happy to answer any questions you have.


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## tulip11

Is TESE a biopsy ? Yesterday I think they did TESA with help of needle. So what I read so according to my knowledge if through TESA they take one section so on the basis of that section results we cant say its not producing sperms. Like there are various areas where there are sperms in some pockets and some not. Plus through TESE they look at a big pic rather than small portion . And dont know why they sent it to histology department whether is there any hope of good news from there or we shouldnt hope further . Totally devastated now we are looking at sperm hope , dr R and dr turk clinic options after our next appointment on 12th march. Is there anyone here who didnt find sperm in first ssr TESA but later on found something through other route ? Sorry I am asking too much like a crazy person , its been 2 years this month since we are figting with azoospermia . Since yesterday I cried too much that now I have pain in my eyes.


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## gem10

Hi ladies! It seems like forever since I last visited. I had a very hard time following my miscarriage. But I am happy to say we tried again, and two days before Christmas found out we are pregnant! I am currently at the doctor for my down syndrome test. I am 12 1/2 weeks pregnant. I honestly never thought I would see the day. Just goes to show don't ever give up on your dreams. I can't thank all of you amazing women for seeing me through the hardest two years of my life. You were always there to comfort me and encourage me and at times were the only ones who understood how I was feeling. You all are my angels on earth. I just want you to know that. I pray for all women struggling with infertility, especially my azoo girls. God bless xoxo


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## MoBaby

Congrats gem!


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## Hopeful Cat

tulip11 said:


> Is TESE a biopsy ? Yesterday I think they did TESA with help of needle. So what I read so according to my knowledge if through TESA they take one section so on the basis of that section results we cant say its not producing sperms. Like there are various areas where there are sperms in some pockets and some not. Plus through TESE they look at a big pic rather than small portion . And dont know why they sent it to histology department whether is there any hope of good news from there or we shouldnt hope further . Totally devastated now we are looking at sperm hope , dr R and dr turk clinic options after our next appointment on 12th march. Is there anyone here who didnt find sperm in first ssr TESA but later on found something through other route ? Sorry I am asking too much like a crazy person , its been 2 years this month since we are figting with azoospermia . Since yesterday I cried too much that now I have pain in my eyes.

We didnt find anything in a fna..im not sure how that differs from a tesa. But we found sperm in each of our 3mtese which is a focussed form of tese. I believe mtese is ur best bet.

Congrats Gem


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## rdleela

Congrats Gem, amazing news!

Tulip, I'm so sorry you've been dealt another blow...I hope you find some answers! Xoxo


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## bubumaci

Gem - CONGRATULATIONS :wohoo: ... your post brought tears to my eyes. I am very happy for you :kiss:


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## arzoo

Congrats Gem. This is excellent news. Wish you a healthy pregnancy ahead. 


Tulip: sorry we went straight for MTese.


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## tigerlily1975

Hello ladies, 'oldie' here! It's always sad to see new people join the group, but you will find no better support & advice on Azoo anywhere else. Without this group I wouldn't have my 9 month old madam crawling around in front of me right now.
It's lovely to see happy & hopeful posts, too... Keeping everything crossed for everyone!
Tulip, we had an IVF cycle under the NHS which involved a TESE. It was basically surgery to look for sperm, more invasive than a biopsy - so much so that there was significant scar tissue that may affect our chances of another mTESE, which leads me onto Dr Ramsay (whom I wish we'd gone straight too!). Thanks to Deb, we went to see Mr Ramsay who really has an understanding of this condition. Like others here we had a synchronised IVF cycle (mTESE & egg retrieval on the same day). The mTESE is much more accurate & with less damage (I believe). If you want to continue down this route, it might be worth talking to Mr Ramsay. Good luck!
Sending love & hugs to all... Keep hoping!!
C xx


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## tulip11

Thanks everyone you guys are great. Tbh I cant tell you guys how completely we both get shattered. Idk whether the sample sent tk histology lab brings what sort of information on the basis of which they can discuss further on 12th March. I think I will cry forever :'( :'( :'( I imagined so many things when they first said sample is good that one hour would be the best time of my life bt after then what we came to know made us fall into tears. Now I dont have any hope of ever to be a mother in future :'( All the dreams which i had are gone . 

there are several questions going in my mind. Like the procedure they done is all with the help of aspiration ( needle) so if i am not wrong is this what we call TESA and i think so this is different from TESE which is a biopsy right .


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## NikkiR143

My DH goes for TESE on March 20th. We've been given a 60% chance of finding sperm. Doc seems really confident, but can't promise anything (obv). He's been on anastrozole for 2 months, and his testosterone has jumped from 444 to over 1200, which is why the doc is so confident. But the surgery will be difficult, and my DH has a hematocele (blood accumulation in his scrotum from a ingunial hernia repair in August). So the doc said it will be technically more difficult, but it isn't stopping him. I am a little confused between TESA, TESE, and mTESE as well. I know TESA wasn't an option. Doc said we needed to do TESE. TESA is less expensive ($6,500), TESE was $7,500. So we paid the $7,500. But why wasn't mTESE an option? That wasn't even an option on our paperwork. Maybe he is doing mTESE (microdissection) but not calling it that? He said he is going to go into his dropped testicle, and the undescended testicle in his abdomen to look for sperm too. I don't know why he would do that, as you'd think that testicle is dead, but he seems to want to look there too. All so confusing!


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## snd80

Thinking of you Mo! :hugs:


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## snd80

Gem!!!!!! Congrats!!! :happydance:

You are so right! All of these azoo sisters are angels on earth!!! I wouldn't have my two little sweet babies today without the support and encouragement of all the girls on here!!! LOVE each and every one of you!!!

To those still in wait and along their journeys, my heart and prayers are with you all!!! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Hope all is well with everyone!


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## longing2bamom

Hi all,

I have visited this page so many times looking for hope when I need it most. I know it is an older blog, but I just really need to be able to talk about this with someone who understands what I am going through.
My husband and I have been married for just over 4 years and have never tried to prevent pregnancy. We weren't necessarily trying, but we weren't trying to prevent it either. Well, after 2 years of never getting pregnant, we decided to seek medical advice. My gyno totally checked me out and ran tests and said everything looks good. She then advised us to get my hubby checked, beginning with an SA. We got the results, which were...NO sperm. We were both completely shocked. My gyno then recommended us to a urologist. We went to him and he had him do another SA.....with the same results. Zero sperm. I of course immediately went online and found so much terrible information about this. We were both crushed, but I don't believe we really fully expressed our heartache to each other. I didn't want to make him feel any worse than he already did (even though it is NOT his fault) and I don't know that he really want to admit just how bad he felt. My husband had leukemia as a child, had radiation and chemo and was healed of it within a couple of months. The urologist pretty much just blamed it (azoospermia) on the leukemia and told us we should just either adopt or use a sperm donor...instead of even trying to look into it. It was as if he didn't even want to bother with us. Hearing that felt like he just ripped my heart out. We were NOT satisfied with that so we told my gyno about our experience and she apologized. I began reading about azoospermia and saw there are two kinds...obstructive and non obstructive. I, of course, hoped for the best and began looking up urologists with good reviews and found one, who at one point was mentioned on the show The Doctors, which we took as a great sign. We went for a consultation and brought all information we had so far. We talked to the urologist, who really seemed to know what he was doing/talking about and advised us that since my husband was so young when he had treatment, it shouldnt have affected him. He said if he had been older once things had already developed, maybebut he really didnt believe it would be the culprit. He had us do another SA and it turns outstill zero sperm. He said he wanted to do a TB to look for spermthen we would go from there. He mentioned the possibility of IVF and egg freezing, but didnt go into too much detail because he said he wanted to do the biopsy first. This was the summer of 2013. I called the office to get a biopsy schedule and they never answered or returned my call and I left several messages. I couldnt help but feel it was blocked for a reason. It is now March of 2015 and still no baby and no pregnancy. My sisters have had several children, friends have had several children and my husband and I are just sitting here waiting and wondering. We really havent had great experiences with urologists and I have read about reproductive endocrinologists and I just dont know which way we should turn. We want someone who will try everything possible, but havent had that yet. It is so devastating when we hear of a relative or friend getting pregnant. Dont get me wrong, I am thrilled for them because that is so exciting for them. But it is heartbreaking that we are still waiting. And then I feel so bad about getting upset that theyre pregnant but I just cant help it. I am a Christian and firmly believe God has perfect timingwhich is honestly the reason we had just stopped pursuing help. But now that it has been over 4 years, I cant help but wonder if we are [supposed] to get help before we will get pregnant. Not that God cant do it because I know nothing is impossible for Himbut maybe this is just part of His plan..? I have read so many miraculous stories about couples in which the husband has azoo and they still end up getting pregnant. At times, I feel like all azoo wives can agree, you just cant help but wonder if it will ever happen. In the beginning, I used to be an avid poas girlI mean every month. But the disappointment with each BFN never lessened with any of them so I finally stopped because I just couldnt take the heartache of seeing that negative. I would always hold it up to the light to make sure there wasnt a faint second line but there never was. After all of this time of [anxiously] waiting, I just feel so emotionally exhausted and finally decided to post this. For the most part, I can feel it in my bones it is only a matter of timebut then sometimes, it just feels so far from reality and that really hurts. I was 2 weeks late February and was almost convinced I was pg. It seemed like I was having so many symptoms and almost convinced myself of it but was too afraid to take a test and see a BFNthen literally the day I got in the car to drive to the store to buy a test, I couldnt even get to the main road because of a bad snow storm that was starting so I had to turn back around and go home. I went in to use the bathroom and sure enoughthere was the dreaded AF. I have had slight but noticeable cramping since then and have been so tired (maybe Im simply not getting enough sleep but cant explain the cramping after a period because I have never done that before) so I decided to take a test anyway because I have heard of having bleeding like a period while pregnant and I just couldnt shake the feeling that I might be pg. BFN. I held it up to the light to check for that faint second line and it wasnt there. I took another test just to make sure the next dayanother negative. I hadnt taken a test in almost 2 years so it took so much courage to do it againand felt just as bad to see that one line as it used to. Over the years, we have purchased so much baby stuff so we have a room full of it...and some days, I just want to go in there and give it all away because it can be so hard see. :sad1:


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## arzoo

Hi longing to be mom. Sorry to hear about your story. Hopefully you will find the support you are looking for. I for one would not have survived without the support from the lovely ladies here. Why don't you follow up with the urologist again ?


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## MoBaby

I agree, follow-up with urologist. The only way to know for sure if there is no chance with dH sperm is to do the mtese. And if none then you guys can discuss donor sperm. it's a hard thing to decide but I think a second visit to the urologist will help you. Unfortunately the chemo probably did cause it and there isn't anything that can reverse it. But the mtese biopsy can see if he is making any even if it's just one. Good luck in your next steps.

I had my hysteroscopy last week. All was fine. Waiting for AF now so I can do a natural Fet with 2 of the 5 frosties. So far I'm late on ovulation (should have happened yesterday) which is no surprise since of the early mc last cycle.


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## bubumaci

Hi Longingtobeamom - I am sorry you have had to make your way over here ... but the support in this forum is amazing!
I agree with what MoBaby says :hugs:


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## tulip11

Hi
today we had a appointment and histology results came back and showed my hubby has sertoli cell syndrome. Our dr said we will carry out microTESE and he showed us that in 46% patients with sertoli cell only syndrome found sperms. My husband fsh is 11. Other hormones are okay. Is there anyone out here who found sperm with such case ?


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## arzoo

Yes tulip we found Sperms. Doc said we were extremely lucky.


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## NikkiR143

DH had his mTESE today. They didn't find anything. They did a bilateral dissection and fixed the hematoma he had from his hernia repair earlier this year. I CAN'T believe they didn't find any sperm. How can this be? His urologist was so confident and hopeful. He said the embryologists will look through the tissue once more tomorrow, but only 7% chance sperm is found the 2nd day. He even said the tissue looked great. I'm so devestated. The drive home was hell. My husband was put under for 2 1/2 hours, so he's throwing up from the anesthesia. We've been open and honest about this whole thing with our family and friends, and now i wish we hadnt. We're supposed to start ivf cycle in April, but looks like we'll cancel that. Get our 12k back and do iui with donor sperm. But i don't think we want our friends to know were using donor sperm. So do we lie and tell them they did find sperm and just do iui in April? My husband never wanted anyone to know anything, it was more me not being able to keep my mouth shut. But i dont think i want anyone to know were using donor sperm either. Im so sick and tired. Ive been crying all day, but trying to stay strong for my husband who is prob feeling really bad about this whole thing. What do i do??


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## MoBaby

So sorry for the news :( sounds like you have accepted the donor sperm route. I would tell your friends what you want others to know because friends talk. To others. So i would say be wise with who you choose to tell. Otherwise just tell them everything is all set to go so treatment starts in April. They don't have to know the details; just you are good to go.


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## arzoo

So sorry to hear your news. It's entirely upto you if you want to tell others or not. My dh and I had decided that we will not tell anyone if we went down the donor route. I just could not trust family or friends with our secret.


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## bubumaci

Nicole, I am sorry to hear your news! :( That feeling of hopelessness is just so awful! It really is up to you. I have always been very open with everyone about our journey - but that's just how I am. I don't see it as anything to be ashamed of, quite the contrary, it shows how far you are willing to go to have your little miracle! And that is something - imho - to be very proud of. It is not an easy journey!
It is totally up to you, whom you tell and what you say xoxo


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## rdleela

Awh Nicole, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this; I have no advice on telling people regarding donor sperm; hubby and I could never agree whenever we got to that topic, it's a tough decision that I think has to be right for you guys - it's good you're so open and honest with each other, first!


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## NikkiR143

MoBaby said:


> So sorry for the news :( sounds like you have accepted the donor sperm route. I would tell your friends what you want others to know because friends talk. To others. So i would say be wise with who you choose to tell. Otherwise just tell them everything is all set to go so treatment starts in April. They don't have to know the details; just you are good to go.

Thank you. I agree. I told all my friends today that they did find sperm. They wanted details. I just said they found enough viable sperm to go through with the IVF cycle. I said there's no guarantee it will survive thawing, so we're cautiously optimistic...just so they know why I'm not overly excited. My friends immediately called me. I ignored their calls. They text me that they were crying and just so overjoyed for us. I had a panic attack. I HATE lying. My friends are like my sisters, and they've been with me through this journey every step of the way, and I'm lying. My mom and grandma are the only ones who know the truth. Even my real sister thinks we found sperm. But...I've decided this is the best thing to do. I think once our future baby is born, it will be so much easier for my husband if everyone thinks it's his. I don't want talk going around that we used a donor. Because, going through this pregnancy together we won't know any different. This baby WILL be his. Next step is looking for the donor online. Have to admit...I'm a little excited for this part. Haha. Can you tell me your experience? Any advice? How did you and your DH deal with this? What website did you use? Etc...


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## sharon99

It's been a while since I've been on here, and I just saw your fantastic news, Gem!!!! Big congratulations to you. :)

Nicole, I'm so sorry they didn't find any sperm. I would not feel guilty AT ALL about doing what you think is best for your family. We have told a select few about using donor sperm, and I don't consider NOT telling others "lying". It's just protecting those who are most important- you, your husband, and your future baby. 

Ha, looking for a donor online was one of the weirdest experiences ever. DH didn't really want to be involved initially. I narrowed it down by DH's cultural background, and once I had weeded based on my own criteria (health, education, etc.), there were only a few choices. DH and I looked at them together (he did not want to see photos), and then chose one. Very strange!


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## deafgal01

I agree with the ladies, Nicole. You're not really lying- it's more of a white lie, a small lie to protect your husband and you and the baby from having someone else tell the baby before you two tell the baby. I'm a bit late in chiming in my thoughts I know.

I've been quite withdrawn lately because it's just been hard coming on bnb and seeing my other ladies being pregnant with their 2nd or 3rd babies and I'm still waiting. Besides I'm kinda on hold at the moment with waiting for grad school news. I'm supposed to find out this week if I've been accepted. Plus there's a wedding in Dec I want to go to and that'll prevent me from flying if I'm too pregnant so I thought it was best to hold off for a while longer so that I can be sure to fly for my cousin's wedding and focus on grad school. I hope to start trying this fall though after I've started the grad school program.

How's everyone doing?


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## MoBaby

I've just done another transfer- bfn. Official beta Wednesday.

We have 3 more frosties but I don't know if I can keep going. It's way to stressful.


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## SunUp

Mo, I'm with you there. I'm doing my third cycle now for number two and it's hard not to lose hope. The second BFN was a huge blow to me and now I just am going through the motions with this cycle, if that makes any sense. If this cycle fails we may take a break, it's really frustrating.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Mo and Sun that is hard. I took a year break after only 2 tries at IUI. Heck, still on break even after that year off. :dohh: Probably will be 2 years break mark before I finally give it another try. It is definitely very stressful.


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## MoBaby

Yes at this point in wondering if I should just considering my LO my blessing And just move on. I'd love to be preggo again but not at the risk of focusing too much on that and not on my family. I have 3 frosties; 2 tries if I do Sets because one isn't great quality. It's just so hard. i was so convinced this last fet worked because it was just like the one with my son.


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Mo you know what you want and what is best for you and your family. You're right that the one you do have is a blessing definitely.


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## rdleela

Awh sorry about the recent BFN's girls...Deafgal, it must be SO HARD to wait like you are xoxo

I actually just saw the RE today to start prepping for fresh IVF #2 in August (we have no frozen embryos from #1). Gotta do all the stupid tests again, really not looking forward to the HSG. Anyways, hubby got his sperm count done, first time in 1.5 years, 1 million count with very poor motility. I think hubby was hoping it might be a bit better, since we managed to somehow get pregnant naturally with Lux, but it is what it is! I was already focussed on doing IVF again while he was holding out hope for natural. So anyways, now he's totally on board with IVF...


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## deafgal01

RD- it is very hard. It'll be 2 years in Nov. this year since my last real try at a bfp if I wait that long (which I'm assuming I probably will as I'll have grad school to do which would keep me pretty busy). That plus we don't have extra money saved up for IUI- we do have emergency funds saved up but for a rainy day if in case we need for surviving on one income. I have my good days and bad days - more bad days if I come on bnb too much but I stay away, and I have better days/ time coping with the fact that I'm still in this spot. That's why you see me mainly staying only in my journal and not venturing out into the other journals/forums much at all if I lurk in any of them. Basically I follow what my mom's advice is- if there's nothing good I can say at all, then I am better off keeping my mouth shut and not regretting what words I said later.

I have days when I'm very tempted to say screw it all and try anyways but I do want to go to my cousin's wedding in December and I don't want to be worrying about the pregnancy if I get knocked up (even though I've read the best time to travel is in 2nd tri). Z worries about the effect of pregnancy on me if I'm going thru grad school (like I wouldn't be as focused as I can be). Blah, I'll just take it on a day to day basis and see what happens.


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## SunUp

Hugs, Mo & DG

DG, I cannot imagine how difficult it is to wait, and I don't blame you for needing to stay in your own space/journal. You have to do what is right for you and DH, just hoping for you that the futures holds both a graduate degree and you holding a little one. I still keep you in my prayers - now for grad school and future TTC... they can be stressful but it can be done!


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## NikkiR143

How's everyone doing? Seems quiet here lately. I had my first IUI with donor sperm yesterday  so I can finally say I'm in the 2ww. I did an all natural cycle this month. I got a positive opk on Thursday morning, so IUI was scheduled for 11 am yesterday. It would be such a miracle for this to work the first time. If it doesn't, we'll do a medicated cycle next month. Only 1dpiui and I'm already so anxious. Wish me luck ladies!


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## snd80

:dust: nicole!!!!

Hope everyone else is doing well!!! :hugs: to all!!!


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## rdleela

Best of luck Nicole!

DG, I hope you are coping well xoxo


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## MoBaby

Nicole fx for you!
Sun up congrats!!

I'm having scratch biopsy Wednesday for FET next cycle, late May. I wish my fet was this cycle because I ovulated yesterday and it was a strong ovulation so it would have been good for fet. Just waiting now :)


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## bubumaci

:dust::dust::dust: to you Nicole :hugs:

DG ... :hugs:


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## NikkiR143

Sooo I'm 11dpiui now. I caved and tested at 9dpiui with FMU...and it was negative (stark white on a First Reponse 6 days sooner test) :-( Grrr....I know it could've been really early. Praying that's the case. I'm not testing again till Thursday morning, at 13dpiui. I want to see that BFP soo bad. Anyone here ever test negative early, that went onto a BFP?


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## BumpHopes

Hi everyone!

I havent posted in a while, nothing happening my end for a while but got great news! DH and I have an appointment for our treatment planing 30th July! so will be going through IVF in August.

Question for anyone who used Donor Sperm... we have been told to look for a donor depending on the CMV result (negative or positive) i've had my blood test to see which i am but waiting on the results. We have looked at the donors and most seem to be positive not negative and im getting concerned that if i am negative, i cant use a positive donor. Does anyone know how likely it is to be pos/neg? anyone had a similar issue?

Thankyou x


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## MoBaby

I don't know the answers to that bump. I've not used donor sperm so hopefully others can help you.


Nicole any luck this cycle?

My fet is scheduled may 22. Lining scan ay may 11th and if it's good pio may 16th. I'm nervous but excited. If this fails then we won't be trying again for a while which sucks but financially and emotionally that's what we need to do. 
Hope everyone else is doing well!


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## NikkiR143

MoBaby said:


> I don't know the answers to that bump. I've not used donor sperm so hopefully others can help you.
> 
> 
> Nicole any luck this cycle?
> 
> My fet is scheduled may 22. Lining scan ay may 11th and if it's good pio may 16th. I'm nervous but excited. If this fails then we won't be trying again for a while which sucks but financially and emotionally that's what we need to do.
> Hope everyone else is doing well!

Unfortunately, no :-( I got my period exactly 14 days after the IUI. I went in on Monday (cycle day 4) in the hopes of starting clomid for this next cycle, and I have a luteal cyst. Just my luck! So they won't give me clomid. My only choice is to do another natural cycle. So, I go in for another ultrasound next week for monitoring. My doctor doesn't even want to give me a trigger because Hcg can prevent the cyst from going away and actually create more cysts. I was hoping to do a trigger this round to help with timing. Since we're using donor sperm, timing is everything! I think that's why the last round failed. I either ovulated too early or too late. This is all so stressful. I'm fortunate that IUI's are covered under my insurance, and I've already paid for 6 vials of donor sperm (we have 5 left now), so really the only expense each round is shipping of the sperm, which can range from $200 to $300 for overnight shipping. I really hope we get lucky on #2!


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## MoBaby

Hey ladies! Just wanted to update. DH and I had our third transfer/2nd FET trying for #2 on May 22nd. Today, at 7dpt, 12dpo, I got a positive digital! I have been testing positive since 3dpt in the afternoon and the lines have continued to darken. Beta HCG is monday! Dreams do come true ladies in the azo journey. I know we have a long road ahead still (beta, first u/s, 12 week scan, anatomy scan, second trimester, third trimester, etc) but I am feeling very hopeful. I never thought I would have the chance to be a mom in the azo journey but I am and now I have the chance hopefully to have #2.
 



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## rdleela

Congrats MoBaby!!! Amazing news!!


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## snd80

HUGE Congrats MO!!!!!! :happydance: SO excited for you!!!

I must admit, I snuck over to your blog and seen your beta #s for today...... I'm thinking Twinny Twin Twins!!!! :haha:


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## MoBaby

Yes beta is 609 at 10dpt, 15dpo
I only transferred one embryo though. I'm hoping it didn't split but if it did I will have to accept what I've been given. Will find out in a few weeks!


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## deafgal01

Thanks ladies for the hugs. I'm just checking in. Not sure how long til the next time I check in again. It's been a month, or feels like it anyways.

Nicole- sorry the first IUI didn't work out.

Bump- I don't have an answer to your question. I know that depending on what the lady is (positive or negative) it can sometimes be better to use a donor that matches (if negative, then you need to find negative, but if you're positive, then it doesn't matter either way but don't quote me on that, i'm out of touch so I'm not remembering all the details I learned from my time going through IUI). I'm thinking it's somewhere along that - which is why they do that type of testing before doing donors.

Congrats Mo!


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## MoBaby

I have some devastating news.. 
Despite super high betas, a perfect blast and a perfect transfer my body rejected the pregnancy at almost 6 weeks. I miscarried at home yesterday. This was after a scan showed a baby measuring right on track in the right place just a few hours earlier. I passed the sac intact after a huge clot. Ultrasound today comfirmed the miscarriage was complete. I did see the RE today and he is running a RPL panel again. This marks miscarriage #4 (on top of the 2 chemicals I've had). RE says things could potentially change but I doubt it. I did save the products but I decided not to have it tested since the last ones were normal. I guess I could take it in tomorrow but I am not sure it will give any more answers since my prior miscarriages all had normal embryos and it really didn't help at all. The RE feels like I most likely developed a bleed behind the sac and the bleed was just too large and when the clot broke lose it broke the sac loose too. The clot was 3-4cm and the sac was 1.5 cm. I didnt have any more clots after that one and the cramping settled down. I bleed most of the night but it stopped so I am sure that once the HCG is down and once the progesterone gets out of my system I will have an extremely heavy period since my lining was super thick today. We dont understand what happened exactly and are devestated.
We have 2 frosties left that would be trasferred together. BUT I can not see doing this again right now so I think it will be jan or so next year. Those are our last chance for a sibling for baby unless we ever decide to try a few rounds with donor sperm which right now my husband is not open to after having a "biological" son. 

I hope everyone else is doing well.


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## rdleela

Awh MoBaby I am so sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself, I imagine sorting through all these emotions is tough xoxo


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## deafgal01

:hugs: Mobaby omg that's horrible! Argh... All the struggles you went through to get this far! This isn't fair!


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## snd80

MO, this just utterly saddens me! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: and more :hugs: during this difficult time! Praying for you!!!!


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## arzoo

Really sorry for you Mo. Sending you hugs


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## deafgal01

How is everyone lately?


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## SunUp

Mo, I totally get the devastation. We have 3 frosties left but that's it, no more sperm for "full biological" sibling if these embryos don't work. (So far, We've transferred 5 frozen embryos - no lasting success). Hope you take however long you need. This is such a hard process. Hugs!

DG- as for me, life is moving along here. Graduation is quickly approaching for me! Hoping one of our last 3 frosties are sticky beans, by the end of the year. But we are enjoying our son SO much. 

Hope good things are coming for everyone else here!


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## MoBaby

thats us also sunup. we have 2 biological frosties. We have 2 vials of sperm left but they had to thaw 2 vials for the measly 13 sperm needed. so really we have no sperm. if those dont work our only hope would be iui with donor but DH is against a non-fully biological sibling now we have had success :( I do wish I had 1-2 more frozen but these 2 are one more transfer since one isnt great quality.


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## NikkiR143

I got my bfp this morning ladies! (clear 2nd line on a FRER) and "pregnant 1-2 weeks" on a clearblue digital. I'm 11dpiui. Soooo excited! 2nd iui cycle. I got for beta on Friday. Cautiously optimistic, because I know a lot can go wrong, but I'm thrilled. 

I'm wondering if all these uterine cramps I'm having are normal? They hurt.


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## bubumaci

That's wonderful news, Nicole! So excited for you! :)
My first beta was 6dp5dt (and I tested with a digital that morning - only time I tested with all my tries - also got the same result as you :) - such a fabulous feeling and my beta was good too!! 27 at 6dp5dt and 118 at 9dp5dt). Good luck for your beta on Friday :) <3


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## SunUp

Nicole- how was beta?


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## NikkiR143

SunUp said:


> Nicole- how was beta?

So far so good! First hcg results were 102 (on Friday the 17th). 2nd beta on Sunday and hcg was 250, so more than doubled 

I'm continuing progesterone suppositories till my doctor tells me I can get off them, but my blood progesterone levels look good. 

My first ultrasound is this Wednesday. I'll be 5 weeks 5 days. I'm so excited.


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## bubumaci

That's wonderful news, Nicole! So happy for you :) So exciting!! :)


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## Mikihob

Hi everyone! 
I am so sorry for being MIA for so long. I started a new job and was on a break from TTC while we planned our next move. 
I have missed so much! I have missed you ladies and will catch up on what's been happening! Congrats on all the new babies!


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## rdleela

nicole, congrats!!!!

Mikihob, back on the TTC saddle in August?

I'm in the middle of IVF right now, with ER on July 30th, yikes! And baby girl will be 1 on August 16th, THAT'S probably crazier lol


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## SunUp

Wow RD- our cycles will be super close! I transfer in 2 weeks (FET). Good luck on ER!

Miki- you'll have to catch everyone up on how you have been

Nicole- Congrats!


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## NikkiR143

Thanks everyone! I had my first ultrasound today. Gestational sac and yolk sac are measuring perfect, but couldn't see the baby yet. I was measuring only 5 weeks 4 days (I'm really 5 weeks 5 days) but doctor and nurses reassured me that it's still really early and totally normal not to see the baby yet. He said they normally don't schedule ultrasound till after 6 weeks, and he doesn't know why they scheduled me so early. So, I was a bit disappointed we couldn't see much but happy that everything they did see looks good! Next ultrasound scheduled for 2 weeks from today.


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## rdleela

Hey, Nicole, your scan sounds totally normal, it will be exciting to hear the heartbeat at your next scan!

My IVF cycle was a total bust, had 11 follicles, but only 4 eggs, only 2 mature and they didn't fertilize. So no transfer! :cry:

Just hoping to move forward with another fresh cycle ASAP, trying not to feel too gutted. I just need a total protocol change, been reading a lot on "empty follicle syndrome" since this is the second time this has happened to me.

Anyways, wishing MUCH better luck to everyone else!


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## SunUp

Sorry RD- but it does sound like a new protocol for you is in order! Hopefully you can start super soon!!


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## Mikihob

Too catch up.... 

We have been working on losing weight and saving some money so that we can move forward with IUI's again. We have also saved towards IVF in case IUI is a lost cause. We are in the middle of a home improvement project so that we can move in the next year or two out of Alaska. It's a terrible state to live in with infertility. We are waiting for our windows to be put in and then paint, paint, paint. We are finishing the backyard fence, lattice under the back porch and completing brick work around the side yard. Too much work at once, DH got a little over zealous. :haha: 

We finally decided to move onto dIUI #5 and my doc put me on Femara. It's WAY better than Clomid. Far less side effects and I am actually getting positive OPK's. I am already pleased with this medicine. 

U/S #1- July 27 (Day 12) Sm follicles, 6mm uterine lining. 
U/S #2- July 30 (Day 15) Lg follicle right ovary 15mm, 8.1 uterine lining.
U/S #3- Aug 3 (Day 19) Follie right ovary 18.4mm, 9.1 uterine lining. 

The plan is to trigger Wednesday (it's when the pharmacy gets it in stock) and IUI Thursday afternoon. 

This is the first month I feel we actually have a chance. It's a weird feeling, but I sure like it. :happydance:

*rdleela* I am sorry to hear about your IVF cycle bust. Hopefully they can do something to help prevent more empty follicles. 
*SunUp* saying prayers for your upcoming FET. 
*nicole* congrats on the pregnancy.


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## SunUp

Yay Miki! We will be about a week apart- we can keep each other occupied some during the TWW :)


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## MoBaby

Hey ladies im in limbo right now. Not sure what the re wants to do. Not sure what I want to do. I think the miscarriage ordeal is finally over. I ovulated last week so af should be here next week friday or so. I'll call my re then to have my thyroid and some blood antibodies tested. Then Hopefully I can plan to transfer by October or early November.

I don't think I updated here. But more details In my blog. My re wants to try a transfer approach where he puts the embryos directly into the endometrium on the left since he feels the right side is compromised. Not sure how I feel about it. It's involved; similar to how an egg retrieval process is done technique wise. My re has never done it but if course he says he can. I would need a trial transfer with it so maybe I can get that done very soon with this AF or next then plan on the real thing.


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## Mikihob

IUI# 5 went great. It was super quick and the least crampy by far. I rested afterwards, took a 2 hour nap (which I never did before) and then relaxed. I cramped all day yesterday and not so much today. A little after IUI cramping but none of what I had yesterday or Tuesday. 

I hope, hope, hope this is it!! Now to wait to test. :thumbup:

*Mobaby*- I am so sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I hope that the re can implant on the left side to boost your chances of conception. Keep us posted as to what he says and your plan of action. 
*SunUp* I would love a TWW buddy and a bump buddy! :hugs:


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## SunUp

When is OTD miki?


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## deafgal01

Checked in on all you ladies... :hi: and bye!


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## Mikihob

SunUp otd is August 19. I think I may test on the Sunday before so I can be prepared and not be crushed at work that day. If I test Aug 16 and it's BFN I will wait until the coming weekend. At least I can make it through work that week. :winkwink::haha::wacko: It's so far away! :hugs: 

How are you doing? What's OTD for you?


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## SunUp

Mikihob said:


> SunUp otd is August 19. I think I may test on the Sunday before so I can be prepared and not be crushed at work that day. If I test Aug 16 and it's BFN I will wait until the coming weekend. At least I can make it through work that week. :winkwink::haha::wacko: It's so far away! :hugs:
> 
> How are you doing? What's OTD for you?


My 5 day transfer is this Thursday, and I like to test 5dp5dt... So the 18th is when I will POAS. I don't get beta for a while (my clinic waits ridiculously long)! I don't blame you for wanting to test ahead of time - BFNs make for a rough day. I also feel like it gives me some 'control' - this assisted reproduction thing takes so much of the intimacy away from getting pregnant. If it DOES work, its kind of a nice secret for me and DH for a few days :) :haha:


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## Hopeful Cat

Just checking in to wish you girls good luck. I always poas at 5dp5dt too.


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## Mikihob

SunUp I am supposed to test Aug 19th! I don't think I can wait but.... 
I agree it will be great to share that BFP with you and DH and then deal with the docs again. How exciting!! :hugs:


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## Mikihob

:bfp: 
:cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9: :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:
At 11dpo I got super faint lines on cheapies and then this morning darker line on FRER and ClearBlue Easy digital weeks estimator!

Over the moon with happiness!! 

Thanks for all of your support ladies!! :kiss: :hugs:


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## MoBaby

Congrats!! Did you use donor sperm if you don't mind me asking? I'm considering if our last FET doesn't work to do 3 iui with donor sperm before giving up. So happy for you!


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## bubumaci

Miki - I am really thrilled for you! So exciting!

Sun - good luck for tomorrow :) :dust::dust::dust:


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## Mikihob

MoBaby I did use donor sperm. We probably would have been pregnant last year if the meds I was on actually worked. I just don't respond well to Clomid at all. Apparently Femara works quite well. :thumbup:
I hope your FET is successful but if not I would suggest donor route. It still brings you a bundle of joy. :hugs:


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## rdleela

Congrats Mikihob!!! Amazing, amazing, amazing, so happy for you!

Sunup, any news for us?

My recent IVF in July failed miserably, we didn't even get one embryo.

My RE has recommended donor eggs to us, and we've made the decision to go for frozen donor eggs, using hubby's sperm, as his samples are very good for ICSI.

So I'm doing a "mock" cycle right now with Lupron/Estrace to make sure I can produce an adequate lining, and I'm expecting we can purchase our eggs late September and do our transfer in mid-November! This has renewed my hope and optimism for a sibling for my ONE year old! Her birthday was last weekend, can't believe I have a little toddler!

Hope everyone is well!


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## SunUp

Rd- yes, we have a :bfp: - praying this is a sticky bean. Beta is tomorrow.


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## deafgal01

:wohoo: yay sunup!


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## bubumaci

:thumbup: liking the positive developments in this thread :) :happydance:


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## rdleela

Yay sun up, that's awesome!! So good to see BFP's here!


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## sharon99

Just popped in to say hello- it's been a while! I'm so sorry to hear your news, MoBaby. And very happy to hear the GOOD news, Miki & SunUp! Huge congratulations!! Hi to everyone else! xoxo


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## BritTTC2.2013

Hi ladies!! DH & I have been ttc for almost 3 yrs now w 2 failed IVF's and 1 failed iui. Neither ivf ended with any embryos to even transfer :( now looking at using donor sperm. Was wondering if anyone has gone down this route and if so, what banks did you use and why? How did you choose a donor? How many vials did you purchase?


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## deafgal01

Hi Sharon!

To answer your question, Brit - I have used donor sperm but it wasn't through the bank and my 2 tries at IUI failed too. The choice depends from individual to individual (or even couple to couple). In our situation, we tried to pick someone that was kind of like us - white, brown hair (my spouse has brown hair), I can't remember what other qualities we agreed to look for. In the end, we settled on asking one person we know in real life to be the donor rather than the bank. I know some people are ok with paying to look at pictures and choosing based on that, and others prefer only details and not seeing pictures.


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## Mikihob

BritTTC2.2013 said:


> Hi ladies!! DH & I have been ttc for almost 3 yrs now w 2 failed IVF's and 1 failed iui. Neither ivf ended with any embryos to even transfer :( now looking at using donor sperm. Was wondering if anyone has gone down this route and if so, what banks did you use and why? How did you choose a donor? How many vials did you purchase?

Hi Brit. I am currently pregnant after my 5th IUI with donor sperm. We tried for 3 years and 5 months. Moving onto donor was a hard decision. DH was against it at first but after a dozen semen analysis' came back with zero he knew it was our only hope. We went through Fairfax Cryobank. I love them. They are super nice and easy to work with. Plus, they get my vial up here to Alaska in two days!! Its amazing. We did the photo matching. You upload DH's photo and the site matches it to their donors. We did that and reviewed the family history and also the background. We were lucky our donor had a child picture that we could see. It was a great experience. 

We purchased the large "kit", can't remember the name. It was $234 and it allowed you to see all the new donors before they were put on the site and it also gave you a Buy 5 get 1 Free. It's costy, but it's definitely worth it. As a bonus, if you have 4 failed attempts you get a free vial. I got my free one after my 4 failed IUI's. 

I definitely am a fan of Fairfax. Are you two going to start looking for a donor or are you just in talks?


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## BritTTC2.2013

Thank you for your help ladies!!

Miki- we are planning on doing donor in January, hopefully. I found fairfax online and love the photo match option. I called my dr and they actually use fairfax and California bank so I was happy to see fairfax was on the list. I'm going to schedule a consult soon w the dr to get more info. I saw the large kit you described and we decided we would buy that option to search for a donor. Its important that we find one as close as possible to my DH physical features bc we don't intend on telling friends and family about this. We paid for 2 IVF's out of pocket and they failed miserably with no xfer for either. Family was very involved and excited but w a conservative religious family, I know they would feel awkward about our decision for donor and would probably rather we adopt or use embryo adoption. We considered embryo adoption but I really would like my genes in the baby if possible since I have no known issues. Plus the expense and time of any adoption is far greater than DS and we've already spent thousands on failed cycles. It is def a big decision but we're both on the same page w the idea of donor so we're confident in our decision. Now to choose a donor...oh geez lol! It seems overwhelming. How long did it take for you to find your donor? & CONGRATS ON YOUR PREGNANCY!!!!! WOOHOO!!


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## SunUp

That's fantastic, Brit! So excited for you and I hope your journey to motherhood from here is quick!!

AFM, we so far have a sticky bean! Still scared but we have had three Sonos, each with good heart beat!! Hopefully, our next azoo miracle will be here in April!


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## Mikihob

Sorry for such a late reply Brit. My user CP didn't show responses on this thread. How odd. 

It didn't take us too long to find the donor. We did the photo match and came back with 4 matches. Two we dismissed right away since the background was so different. 1 was ok but the last one matched DH's background AND his medical and family history was SO similar. We unfortunately didn't get to see his pic. However, we saw his childhood photo and we were stunned at how similar to DH it was. Obviously different characteristics and everything but was quite similar. We chose him because everything matched so well we wouldn't feel obligated to tell. 

It's hard to share something like that if family won't understand or would look at the child differently. How's the search coming??


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## lisap2008

My DH has azoospermia after taking clomid , first 2 donor sperm cycles failed , maybe the 3rd try is the charm.


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## Rainbow123

How wonderful to read about those BFPs! Congratulations Mikihob and SunUp!
Just thought I'd pop on as I realised it's been a looooong time since I last logged on! We now have a beautiful 10 month old little boy and I can't imagine life without him! He is such a blessing and I am so glad our journey to becoming parents went the route it did! 
To those ladies considering using a donor due to azoospermia - it can be such a scary path full of so many unknowns but I genuinely could not be happier! My DH has been trying to remind me to come on here (for some time - oops!) to tell you what a happy ending we have found. He is the most amazing dad, he has been since before our little boy was born. I won't lie - he took a little while when I first got pregnant for him to get excited, but as our baby started kicking his daddy in the night, all apprehensions washed away. He actually cried (in a good way!) when our little one was born and has been the most attentive and involved daddy I could ever hope our baby to have. 
We are hoping to start trying for a little brother or sister in May, and we'll have 6 shots at getting a sibling from the same donor so *fingers crossed* as it is soooo expensive to buy sperm (plus our donor doesn't have any vials left - doh!)!
Sending huge hugs to those of you TTC and big kisses to everyone else!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## deafgal01

That's great to hear an update from you Rainbow!

Lisa- keep trying but more importantly take care of your man and you. It is so hard of a journey to take and every one's journey is different.

I've been trying since November 1st officially. First try was too late, I missed the peak. Second try (after Thanksgiving) was too early in the cycle, so missed the peak. I'm hoping third time after Christmas as long I follow the opk and inseminate before it peaks will be the charm.


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## SunUp

That's SO awesome, rainbow - and EXACTLY how we feel with our DS! We had a rough path, but we are so thankful because now we have such an amazing DS... And DD on the way <3


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## Rainbow123

Good luck with your next go Deafgal. Fingers tightly crossed for you!

Awww that's lovely to hear SunUp - a little sister for your little boy! 

XXX


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## bubumaci

Oooooh - everything crossed for you Deafgal!

Such lovely updates Ladies :) <3


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## MoBaby

I Hey ladies! I recently cycled with a new re after my old re clinic was a disaster with their care and communication and multiple failed transfers trying for number 2. Our plan was to do a full cycle, freeze all and do genetic testing since I've had so many losses to determine if genetically something is wrong. Also dh was to have a tese. Well the stim part seemed to go well. We got to retrieval and they do a fresh tese there. Dh left a fresh sample over night and one the day of just before retrieval. He had 140,000 with 30% motility the night before and 40,000 with good motility day of but re still insisted on the tese. Well they only got 3 non-motile sperm from the right testicle but since the fresh sample was fine to use they didn't do more. 
They retrieved 21 eggs from me which was great! The next day we got a bad call saying only 4 eggs were mature. They were able to mature 8 more in the dish. But only 6 fertilized. On day 3 we had 4 going strong still but they told me to be ready to transfer just in case but things looked okay still for a freeze all. Well then on the morning of day 5 I got the call to come in for transfer because we had 3 still growing but only 1 blast and 2 morulas. I talked to the embryologist and we decided it would be best to go ahead and transfer all 3 because she didn't think they would make it to day 6 to be biopsied and frozen. I went in basically crying. My re agreed with the transfer of all 3. He told me to stop worrying that we have embryos and it's 50/50. He basically said we don't know what's going to happen even though the plan changed.
At time of transfer I had one beautiful hatching blasts- perfect looking actually that was ready to freeze now; one very early blast (basically a compacting morula) and a morula that wasn't looking so hot. This was dec 14th. I basically had written off this cycle and was glad I paid for 2 cycle program there. I went ahead and ordered meds since they are no charge until end of year on my insurance. I was planning on what we would change, when I could see the re and discuss, etc. but to my surprise I got my bfp at 4dp 5dt!! And today is 7dpt and I've continued to have progression. My official beta is 12 dpt so dec 26 but so far things are looking good. So please say some prayers this continues to my take home baby!! I've attached 6dpt and 7dpt here.
So ladies I just want to say: even in the worst situations, even when things do not go right please don't give up because things happen the way they should for a reason. I still in shock and can't believe it. I can't wait for my beta on Saturday and praying for a sticky bean. Don't give up! Miracles do happen.
 



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## deafgal01

Oh Mo- that's a miracle! :hugs: Yay for a bfp!


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## Mikihob

lisap it's a rough ride. It took me 5 donor cycles to conceive because I don't ovulate either. I hope you can get your BFP very soon. It's a great feeling when it comes. You don't think all that work, money, time and heartache will be worth it- but it so is. :hugs:

deafgal I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers as you prep for your December cycle. 

Mobaby I am so excited for your BFP. I hope this is it and you can bring home a baby brother or sister. 

Rainbow glad to hear all is well. I have been thinking about you.


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## bubumaci

Am really loving the updates on here!! (Mo - so excited for you!!) <3


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## lisap2008

Mikihob said:


> lisap it's a rough ride. It took me 5 donor cycles to conceive because I don't ovulate either. I hope you can get your BFP very soon. It's a great feeling when it comes. You don't think all that work, money, time and heartache will be worth it- but it so is. :hugs:
> 
> deafgal I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers as you prep for your December cycle.
> 
> Mobaby I am so excited for your BFP. I hope this is it and you can bring home a baby brother or sister.
> 
> Rainbow glad to hear all is well. I have been thinking about you.

Thanks Mikohob. I am feeling positive that 2016 will be our year for a miracle baby.:hugs:


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## Rainbow123

MoBaby - Wooooooooooooop! It's a Christmas miracle! I'm so happy for you! :-D :-D :-D Big prayers being said for you! XXXXXXXX


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## SunUp

Yayyyyy Mo!!!!!! Wooohooooooo!!!


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## MoBaby

Had my beta today. It was 611 at 12dp5dt :) I think that's average. So officially pregnant :)


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## Hopeful Cat

Hey Mo, want to congratulate you but I'm confused by your signature? Really hoping you are ok!!


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## MoBaby

Hey I had a second beta, 72 hours apart and it only rose 78% to 1090. I have a third draw in the am but I feel doomed. I feel it's decreasing now and it's going to be lower :( I'm so confused and heartbroken by this all because everything seemed okay.


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## deafgal01

Hang in there!


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## MoBaby

Levels went to 1902 in 2 days so re is happy with that. Ultrasound scheduled Jan 14th. I'm super nervous still and something seems off still.


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## deafgal01

Praying that all is good when the ultrasound happens.


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## Hopeful Cat

Watching numbers is completely scary and i understand the hesitation in celebrating! But keep the faith in your little one...fingers crossed for you both!!


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## MoBaby

Thanks hopeful! I just worry about everything: ectopic, miscarriage, blighted ovum. I had too many bad outcomes and it sucks joy away :( one day at a time now!!


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## SunUp

Hoping for a great sono!!Fx... I know the waiting is so hard, hope you can stay busy!


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## bubumaci

Everything tightly crossed for a very snuggly baby :kiss:


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## Mikihob

Mo I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I hope this is it and everything is fine. I am glad your RE is happy with the increase. I hope your scan goes swimmingly and you can see the little baby. :hugs:


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## MoBaby

Scan went smoothly!! Baby measuring correct for dates (7weeks 1 day) and heart rate of 141!! So off to a good start. Repeat in two weeks. Praying this little bit stays put.


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## deafgal01

That baby will stay put! It has to!


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## Hopeful Cat

Wooohooo congrats MoBaby!!!


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## SunUp

Yay mo!!! Stick baby stick!!!


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## Mikihob

Congrats Mo! I am glad your scan went well. Your next scan date is coming soon. How exciting!


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## MoBaby

My scan went well! Baby measuring as should with hb 170 at 9weeks 1 day!! Released to my ob. Seems so surreal like in actually preggo again? I've been feeling bad the last week after some mild Nausea but if that means baby is okay I'll take it.


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## snd80

Yay mo! So happy for you!! Another azoo niece/nephew!! So excited! 

Sorry I don't get on much but follow along silently Cheering from the sidelines! Much love to all you girls!


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## Mikihob

Mo I am so glad that scan went well! Yay for a healthy heartbeat. Nausea is good, it sucks, but it's good. If it stays nausea and you can skip vomiting- YAY! :happydance:

So, so happy for the great news!


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## deafgal01

That's great!


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## SunUp

Yay Mo!!!! Woohoo!!!


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## MoBaby

Hey ladies! Just wanted to update I'm 14weeks and 2 days! Baby looks good. I had the harmony test for trisomy 21/18/13 and all was clear after some scary screening results. We opted for gender too but my dr failed to give me those results so I'm going to try to get them tomorrow. We think another boy based on a sneaky ultrasound at work today :) hope everyone is doing okay.

Oh and today was the first day I haven't felt very sick so that was so nice!! a small amount after dinner tonight but overall today was a good day!!


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## SunUp

That is awesome, Mo!!!


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## deafgal01

That is progress mo!


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## MoBaby

15 +1 today. Ob appt was Tuesday and all was well, have high risk appt mar 29! And anatomy scan.


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## Mikihob

MoBaby I am so glad your appt went well!! How exciting the anatomy scan is coming up! Can't wait to find out the gender! How often do you have to go in for high risk appts?? Glad baby is doing great! :happydance:


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## MoBaby

I'm not sure. I've never seen a high risk but last pregnancy I had appts every 2 weeks (sometimes 1 week) most of the pregnancy. I am seeing a different ob this time so I guess the high risk will make me follow-up whenever. I hope it's not often. It's hard enough to juggle my regular ob appts with work. And the high risk dr is about 35 mins from work so it's not convenient to go at anytime really. I can't see the high risk at the hospital I work at, although the same "group" because I'm delivering at the hospital where I'm schedule to see high risk already. Boo! We do know then gender :) we are having another boy! Announcing it officially this weekend.


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## Mikihob

The high risk doc is 35 minutes away! Ugh. I hope it's too frequent on top of standard OB. I assumed high risk docs would take over for low risk OB's. I never knew you had to do both. Yikes! I hope it's only a sporadic checking, it's nice to know baby is doing good, but it is hard to get out of work that much before you take maternity leave. 

Boy!! Yay! Everyone I know is having a boy. So far we are 4-1 boys to girls. Boys are just so sweet. I bet DS and this new DS are going to have a ball! I love watching my neighbors three boys, those kids crack me up. 

Congrats on blue again! :hugs: :baby: :blue:


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## MoBaby

No the high risk obs are just mainly consultants and they tell your ob how to manage. They make the call when and how delivery should happen. Most high risk Drs don't actually deliver the baby but guide your ob in what to do and if extra people are needed like another ob, etc. I hope it's just a few times then that's it.


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## MsRipple

Hello ladies, 

DH was diagnosed with azoospermia after about a year of ttc. I feel devastated and we are still working through the surprise and emotions of it. We are going to the urologist specialist next month. I also have a general fertility consult next month (made appt before we knew about this). 

I will peruse as much as this thread as I can, but any advice for the recently diagnosed?
Also, any likelihood that the first test could have been wrong? Or is this false hope to hold onto?


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## deafgal01

I'm surprised they didn't do a second one to make sure the first one was accurate. 

Be kind to your husband and yourself. The emotions can be a lot to deal with - especially when you find out, and then try treatments.

Some ladies have had success with meds (for their husbands) and other ladies ended up with donors sperms or adopting for their babies.


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## bubumaci

:howdy: MsRipple!
I am sorry that you are facing this diagnosis. It is devastating ... but not hopeless!
One thing that our fertility clinic did, after his diagnoses of Azoospermia, was to test again - normally, and then another one separately, giving him some medication to widen the vessels, to see if then there were more sperm (there weren't). Then he was sent to a urologist, who also did a few tests. DH's results ranged from 0 - 250k, those that were there were either abnormal or not moving.
The urologist wanted to try something before moving onto TESE (where he said the results could be could or not, since sometimes DH was producing and other times not - and he had ruled out obstructive Azoospermia). He had to take Tamoxifen for 6 weeks. We actually had really good results (8 MIO sperm) and were able to freeze 6 vials of sperm.
When we moved forward with IVF, they managed to get a few sperm each time from fresh samples, so they didn't use the frozen samples ... but no luck. For the last try (ICSI # 6, transfer #9), we tried TESE ... I was all prepped for my egg retrieval, when they told me that the TESE sample was useless, so they would be thawing 3 straws from the frozen sperm (from 2 years before)... it brought us our miracle!!

If you want to read more details of our journey, feel free to take a peek at my pregnancy journal (the first two posts describe it all in detail).

Wishing you the best of luck and much much strength on this rocky journey. It is so very hard, but you do have options. And allow the emotions to happen - I still grieve for not being able to get pregnant naturally and not being able to give our little miracle a sibling - because I just can't go through it all again! It breaks my heart every time I hear of others being successful and being able to have another child. I loved pregnancy. I loved childbirth ... it is hard :hugs:


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## MsRipple

Thanks ladies. I am going to back and start looking at journals and posts. Still a bit shocked by this, as is my dh. I feel fine one minute and then feel like I am going to start crying in my office the next.

The referring doctor did say we would likely be asked to do a second test, but also referred us to a urologist at the same time. I assume the urologist will order the second test, as they didn't say anything about doing it before we went in.


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## MsRipple

I've started reading through the posts (decided to start at page #550 for now since there are so many!) and am both buoyed by the success some people of had and a bit daunted by the steps required to get there. Bubu I read the beginning of pregnancy journal and I was so thrilled for you (though I knew the outcome already ;) ). 

Questions for you ladies:

1. Any suggestions for our first urologist appointment? things you wished you had asked or done?

2. Has anyone's dh had testicular cancer or prior surgery in that area? If so, was that a contributing factor to the disease and how has it affected treatment/fertility outcomes? My dh had testicular cancer several years ago and one testicle removed. He did not need chemo or radiation thankfully. We assumed that the other testicle was functioning, but now we know there is something wrong. We are hypothesizing that either something was accidentally snipped during the surgery or possibly there was some scar tissue that resulted from the surgery? 

I tried to convince my dh to try at home insemination since I know I am ovulating today or tomorrow. He refused saying it was pointless. I think there is no harm even though I know there is 0 chance or maybe .0001% chance of a magical sperm finding its way. I was pretty upset he wouldn't even consider it, but I didn't push it, figuring that he is dealing with a lot and we have a long road ahead of us and, realistically, the likelihood of success is almost certainly zero.


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## MoBaby

Hey ms ripple! Just want to tell you don't lose hope. You'll most likely need ivf/icsi. The way they get sperm is up to urologist and infertility dr. Our story is very long but if you click on my blog link you can read all about our diagnosis and what we've done. We've been lucky to get to use fresh (sometimes frozen) Soren as my hubs makes just enough per sample for ivf. We refused the mtese because the urologist we saw was a total ass so we said they would work with what they got (literally 100 per sample with a couple "good" samples with 100,000 - 500,000). It took us a long time to get our son but we did

Now I'm over 22 weeks preggo with another boy!! We changed clinics and got successful our 2nd round of ivf for a sibling (#5 overall, 11th transfer but first at new clinic). Details are long but basically dh left a sample night before er. Dr wanted a modified tese. We had 140,000 sperm per ml with fresh sample they kee warm overnight. Modified tese found 3 sperm all non-motile. Dh left a fresh sample before tese and had 40,000 with good motility so they used that. And we were successful!!Azo just means a different way to have a baby :)


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## deafgal01

Ms Ripple, May I ask how old you are? I am just curious. 

Success nearly a 0? Eh, like one of the other ladies have said, azoospermia diagnosis just means we have to get our dreams a different way - whether with the help of doctors thru ivf or iui (or even using donor) or adoption, or it could be something completely different. I like to think it's not impossible - that there's always a possibility somehow.


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## MsRipple

That's what I think DeafGal, but my husband is not in agreement right now. But when he said impossible, he just meant that there is no chance for us to get a bfp from home insemination in the next few days - we both think there is otherwise hope (though we have not yet sat down and discussed all options). He's a scientist, so he does have more of a grasp on this issue than I do, but I can't think that there is no chance, especially after reading a few studies online that say that there are often a low number of sperm in samples that can't be seen during standard analysis. But I'm not gonna stir the pot on this one right now, as we are both struggling with this and we have a urologist visit at a really great hospital set up in 2 weeks.

I am 37 We got married last year and started ttc shortly after. Got into charting/opks to confirm I was ovulating and when. I did however (perhaps in a pique of foresight) freeze my eggs 4 years ago. So I have 20 mature eggs and a few semi-mature eggs sitting on ice that are "younger" than my current egg age. While I was hoping to never have to use them, I will kind of be proud of my planning self if they help us.

Thank you @MoBaby and @DeafGal. Sending you both best wishes.


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## MoBaby

The fact you have eggs already is so nice!! You could chose to thaw like maybe 10 of those for a cycle and wouldn't have to go through all the cycle monitoring and such. Just embryo transfer timing and cycle meds that go along. Once they figure out how to get sperm you have the eggs to inject. Or you can choose to go through everything again and do a fresh cycle.


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## deafgal01

That was a smart choice you did with your eggs. I haven't done that yet - I'm only 33 but yeah...

Good luck to you too!


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## lisap2008

Its very wise to have your eggs banked, so your in luck there. not trying to give false hope but my DH had azoospermia last year after taking and then stopping clomid and now a year later we have sperm again, its a low count but hopefully it will increase over time.


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## Stinas

Hi my fellow azoo ladies!!! I haven't posted in a long time...twins can keep you busy! 

For all the newbies....there is hope....my azoo twinkies just turned two! 

MsRipple - The first few months after being "diagnosed" are the hardest. We were so lost...very hard time in our marriage, but luckily it brought us a lot closer. 
Freezing your eggs years ago was genius!!! Sure will save you a lot of time and money if you are able to use them!!!


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## MsRipple

Hi guys, 

Partial update as we have not yet been to the RE. The urologist diagnosed DH's Azoospermia as non-obstructive (his LH and FSH were high) and prescribed Clomid to help raise low testosterone. No genetic issues identified. We are exploring a TESE in July. He gave a 60 or so percent change of finding sperm.

I truly felt emotionally exhausted after that visit. 

Has anyone had success with Clomid raising sperm levels (either through TESE or non-TESE)?
Also, the urologist recommended that we freeze the sperm from TESE rather than doing a fresh cycle - I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that fresh was better with TESE. Curious- what advice have you guys received on this issue?
Finally, any luck with insurance (with a fertility exclusion) covering any part of the TESE?


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## SunUp

MsRipple our clinic liked fresh cycle with tese... But they would freeze anything "extra." 

Went back and realized I didn't announce in here my DD was born- she is doing well and big brother loves her! Just wanted to share.


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## MoBaby

Congrats sunup!!


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## Rainbow123

Congratulations SunUp - that's wonderful news!

MsRipple - good luck for July! 

We will be having our first try for a sibling this month. It should be next Wednesday if my calculations are correct! We have six vials of donor sperm left so hoping to get a sibling for our little man. 

Lots of hugs to all! XXXXXXX


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## MsRipple

Sunup, Rainbow, Stinas - you all are giving me hope!

For those that had tese, how much did it cost?

Also, for those whose have tried medicines, what did you use and how successful were they? DH is on 25 mg/clomid to try to raise his testosterone (under 300 right now). I'm reading some studies where medicine has raised sperm levels enough to avoid surgical extraction (though still need icsi/ivf for fertilization)


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## MoBaby

ripple I'm going to be honest- those meds usually don't make a difference in non-obstructive Azo. Some have had success and sometimes it makes what's there a little more usable. I'm hoping it works for your hubs. My hubs took clomid and hcg shots. A min of 3 months for treatment is required to see a change. But we did avoid surgical extraction even off meds because they always found enough usable sperm. I swear fertile aid, count booster and motility aid helped more than anything because they cycles he took those he produced the most sperm. 
Our quote for mtese was $7000. I'm not sure about tese as its a little different but I would think in ballpark of 4-5k.


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## rdleela

SunUp, congrats on the birth of baby #2!!!

Rainbow, so exciting to be trying for #2! I wish you all the luck in the world!

Ripple, serious genius on freezing your eggs, you've got a lot to work with! My husband was obstructive azoos, so I can't offer much help to you, but I wish you the best!


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## tulip11

hi everyone
After a long time am posting here. From tommorow going to start IVF/ICSI injections. This is our first NHS funded cycle. Hubby has NOA azoospermia FSH is 13 and testosterone is on low side but with a slight margin. Both these hormones are not within normal range but still the difference is not too high or low. His chromosomal and other tests came back normal. He will be having M TESE at end of next month. I hope to hear some positive stories who had similar cases . 
Congratulations to all those who have babies and those who got their BFP'S .


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## MsRipple

hi tulip, I don't have any positive stories (yet!), but my husband will likely do Mtese late July. He was very recently diagnosed with NOA and is taking clomid with the hopes that it will improve things for mtese. We are in a similar situation to you - lowish t (under normal range), no chromosomal issues, although my dh's fsh is higher. Are you doing an ivf cycle parallel with the mtese?

Our mtese quote without insurance ended up being 11k. Ouch. But what other choice do we have?


----------



## tulip11

MsRipple said:


> hi tulip, I don't have any positive stories (yet!), but my husband will likely do Mtese late July. He was very recently diagnosed with NOA and is taking clomid with the hopes that it will improve things for mtese. We are in a similar situation to you - lowish t (under normal range), no chromosomal issues, although my dh's fsh is higher. Are you doing an ivf cycle parallel with the mtese?
> 
> Our mtese quote without insurance ended up being 11k. Ouch. But what other choice do we have?

Yes hun you can say its going to be parallel as after MTESE depeding on results whether they found sperm or not i will inject HCG injection then next day will be egg retrieval . Whats your hubby FSH level ?


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## MsRipple

I can't recall the exact number, but it was low 20s


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## MsRipple

If your egg retrievals were timed with tese/mtese, can you tell me how that was done? - my july cycle is estimated to start July 1-5. For scheduling reasons and to have the best timing for my husband (mature and grow sperm cells!!!), I was aiming to do ivf late july (so 1-2 weeks after estimated egg retrieval day if I went natural and then stimmed). Is it possible to delay my cycle 1-2 weeks (like through birth control, how ironoic) and if so, how and when does one start? Additionally, our urologist does surgeries Monday and Friday, but what if they need to trigger me on a Wednesday etc? Will the urologist have to do a different day or are they able to time this in some way?


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## tulip11

MsRipple said:


> If your egg retrievals were timed with tese/mtese, can you tell me how that was done? - my july cycle is estimated to start July 1-5. For scheduling reasons and to have the best timing for my husband (mature and grow sperm cells!!!), I was aiming to do ivf late july (so 1-2 weeks after estimated egg retrieval day if I went natural and then stimmed). Is it possible to delay my cycle 1-2 weeks (like through birth control, how ironoic) and if so, how and when does one start? Additionally, our urologist does surgeries Monday and Friday, but what if they need to trigger me on a Wednesday etc? Will the urologist have to do a different day or are they able to time this in some way?

My egg retrieval will be at end of June . I have started my medications last wednesday. Your coordinator will give you all the schedule when will you start your injections ?


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## tulip11

hi
I have started my first IVF cycle injection ( Buserelin ) last Wednesday. My questions to all those ladies who have been through this IVF treatment regardless that was a success or not do you have normal menstral cycle after this treatment like before you used to have ? Or these injections may have disturbed the menstral cycle ?
Modify message


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## Hopeful Cat

Mine were always all over the place so cant teally tell if ivf made any difference


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## BumpHopes

Mine was normal the first round and lighter than normal on the second. On my first cycle my af came before otd and that cycle was exactly like normal 28 days till next af.


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## MsRipple

I did not do IVF, but did do an egg freeze. i remember my period being pretty normal afterwards.


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## tulip11

Update
Today was first scan since I started buserelin on 25th of may. But in scan they found out that womb lining is thick so they canceled the treatment for a while and in August will start again from the scratch.
Anyone who had similar experience in past then had success in next cycle ?


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## MsRipple

I'm sorry tulip. What does that mean - is there a reason your lining is too thick and how do they fix it?

Did they move your dh's surgery as well?

Wishing you the best.

We are scheduled for mTese next month and will be freezing anything we find. We are also doing another sperm analysis in a few weeks (I asked for this as we have only ever done one, in the off chance that there is something there we could freeze it).


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## bubumaci

Hi Tulip!
I'm not sure what buserelin is (I never had to inject it), but I think that when the lining is too thick, they expect that it will start breaking down by the time of transfer, which is why they will have cancelled your cycle.
We ended up cancelling a cycle in Feb. 2013 (because I had OHSS) - the next time we tried was a couple of months later - it didn't work. A few months after that, we tried again. My progesterone was a little high and the doctor wanted to postpone (but I insisted on trying, my Mother had just died a couple of months before) - I had a chemical. A few months later, another chemical (all fresh tries) and then two months later, my BFP.
I don't think the one thing has anything to do with the other. I think there is no reason that you shouldn't go ahead to have a successful cycle, just because this one didn't work. They might change / adjust the level of hormones ...


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## MsRipple

We had my husband's pre op appointment last week! Clomid appears to be "working" at least in that it has boosted my husband's testosterone by quite a bit and up into the normal range. He is quite ready to be done with taking it though as the side effects have not been great for him. Poor guy, he is going through it right now. 

I can't believe his surgery is in a few weeks. we are so anxious, but we are both happy it will be over with so that we can have some answers (and sperm, please give us sperm with those answers! ) and so that my husband can stop taking clomid.


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## MsRipple

As we get closer to my husband's surgery we both have become a bit crazy - anxious about the surgery, the physical effects, the costs. We both react differently to stuff like this - my husband is resolute but also becomes extremely stubborn, I tend more towards anxiety. 

For those who have gone through this - any tips for dealing?


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## rdleela

MsRipple said:


> As we get closer to my husband's surgery we both have become a bit crazy - anxious about the surgery, the physical effects, the costs. We both react differently to stuff like this - my husband is resolute but also becomes extremely stubborn, I tend more towards anxiety.
> 
> For those who have gone through this - any tips for dealing?

Communication! Just keep talking it out! It's good to recognize you are each reacting differently, and so just keep talking about it and being a sounding board for the other person. Best of luck to you!


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## deafgal01

I agree communication is key as RD has mentioned. 

I also have made sure he knew how I was feeling and I encouraged him to share with me what he was feeling/thinking. It's the reason that I've managed to get thru this infertility journey with my husband - 9 years married this year and for 5 of those years we've been trying for a family (with 2 of them being really trying for real - on our own, 2 IUIs, and donor). One advice - don't talk/obsess over it. We choose to discuss it once in a while - maybe once a month we really sit down and talk about this. I do cry in front of him and when I do, I let him know the reason why so that's usually when we talk about it which isn't often these days.

So definitely communicate with your man. You are each other's sounding boards.


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## Rainbow123

MsRipple - Crochet is my top tip for getting through the wait for mTESE! I felt like I was doing something productive and it got rid of my nervous energy in those times during the evening when I wasn't kept busy and was sat obsessing about it! 
Also, having scheduled fun times with your DH every week. We used to put things like 'Mexican night' on the diary and make a bit of an event out of it for ourselves. It was great to have a laugh together (might have been due to the tequila haha!) and it really helped to have something to look forward to each week.

Little update from me. We had for our first try at a sibling with donor IUI on May 22nd. I got pregnant however when I went for my 8 week scan the baby's heart had stopped beating a couple of days before. Absolutely heartbreaking. We'd seen a beautiful strong heartbeat at 6 weeks but something must have gone wrong. I'm now waiting for my period so we can go for our next try but I'm really dreading it. Trying to get myself physically and mentally prepared for it. 

Sending all you gorgeous azoo ladies lots of love.

XXX


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## rdleela

Awh Rainbow, I'm so sorry for your loss, absolutely heartbreaking. I'm hoping for the best for you with trying again! Xoxo


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## MoBaby

Rainbow so sorry :( that's hard. 

My second Azo and final Azo baby came Wednesday at 36 weeks. He's in nicu for some breathing issues but doing well overall. Hoping a few more days and he can come out.


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## deafgal01

With the summer and being away, I have put it on hold again. Nice to have a mental break anyways from trying. Anyways, prob won't start trying again til Sept or later. I have my heart set on walking at my graduation in December and will need to fly anyways for that. Yay for another azoo baby and good luck with trying again! Always heartbreaking when nature doesn't go the way we hope or expect it to.


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## Rainbow123

Congratulations MoBaby!  I hope your little man is ready to come home soon. XXXXXXX


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## MoBaby

Not today unfortunately :( he's doing well though. I had to make the tough decision to leave the hospital. I was discharged this morning and give. A "boarding room" which was just a bed with a toilet so no shower or fridge for milk storage and no nurse or help in case I needed something in middle of night etc.


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## deafgal01

Oh mobaby! They will discharge him soon enough. Not easy leaving!


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## Rainbow123

How's your little man doing MoBaby? XXX


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## MoBaby

We came home Thursday! Doing well overall. Trying to get breastfeeding down as he was mostly bottle and tube fed expressed milk in nicu. They let me nurse only once per day. It's quite difficult as I'm pumping full time, nursing and figuring out how much he needs. But I'll manage and hopefully in another couple weeks this pump can be gone. He gets a little better each day.


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## Rainbow123

That's great news MoBaby! XXX


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## Chickensoup85

Hello,

I was on this board almost exactly 3 years ago when we went though our first IVF for our son, now almost 2.5 years old. We are currently trying for a sibling. I had my egg collection today. From 14 follicles, they retrieved 6 mature eggs and I just wanted to some friendly people who understand to chat to.

I recognise a few names here from last time... hi!

Congratulations to those of you who have been successful and best of luck to those still on their journey.


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## deafgal01

That is great! Hopefully you won't have to try for long.


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## rdleela

Hi, chickensoup! I think I recall you from that long ago! Did you get a fert report yet? I hope you had some good luck!


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## Chickensoup85

Hi Rdleela, I think I recognise you too! 

I got a call today to say that all 6 have multiple to between 3 and 6 cells. Great news I thought, until her next sentence started with unfortunately!

All 6 are badly fragmented and she wasn't very positive. She said they want to wait and do a 5 day transfer, just incase they are able to pick out a couple of better quality ones. However, she did say there is a 'real possibility' that we won't have any that make it to Saturday and, if there are, they will probably look at putting two back because the quality is so poor. My clinic are usually dead set against using 2 so it must be bad.

How are you? How is your journey going?


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## rdleela

Oh no, I'm sorry you didn't get a great fert report...I will hold out hope that you still get some good embryos making it to day 5!

We did an IVF last summer when my daughter turned 1, and we got zero embryos (only retrieved two immature eggs), so we used donor eggs to have our last child, who is almost 6 weeks old right now! We decided it was more cost effective for us to switch to DE than continuing on with my eggs. My first IVF attmpt was similar, so we couldn't expect better for a third fresh egg attempt on me.

We'll do anything for our babes, won't we? Hoping this cycle isn't a bust for you...


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## MoBaby

Chicken I want to give you hope! We had 22 eggs retrieved so great right! Well next day I got the dreaded call only 4 mature: this had never happened before, normally we only have 2-3 not mature. They matured 8 more in a dish and were able to fertilize 12 and make 6 embryos. Day 3 all 6 were there but they weren't great but wanted to go to day 5. We had 3 then but none were good quality or freezable or able to be tested so we were told to come in ASAP for a transfer. The embryologist told me it was unlikely to work. We transferred all 3 we had. One ended up hatching before I got there. Now I am holding my 4 week old son :) so we had a crap cycle (out of 5 ivf cycles) and ended up having the best success- first try with a new clinic! So don't lose hope!!

My first son is 2.5 so we must have cycled together then :) good luck!!


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## Chickensoup85

Thank you for your kind words rdleela and mobaby. Congratulations both of you on your babies! I'm so happy that everything has worked out for you.

MoBaby, we were cycling at a similar time, you had your first baby shortly before I had my son (I follow your blog - I hope you don't think I'm stalking! haha!). It's great to hear your story, it does give me hope.

I was half expecting them to call today to say they had lost them all but haven't heard anything so have everything crossed!


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## MoBaby

No no it's meant for everyone here to follow!! I don't share it with my family or friends.
All crossed!! Who knows you could end up with frosties!


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## Rainbow123

Good luck for Saturday Chickensoup!
XXX


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## Chickensoup85

Hi,

We went in this morning for the transfer, having not heard anything since Tuesday. They took us to the room and told me to strip off from the waist down. At this point, I said to the nurse, "Do they have some embryos to use? You won't make me do this and tell me to go home?!" She laughed but didn't give an answer!

Anyway, it was much better news than we had hoped for. Two of the embryos had made it to the early blastocyst stage this morning; however, because of the poor quality, they put them both back in. Just comparing it to my sons embryo picture, you can tell the difference in quality. Still, it was great news compared to what we had been prepared for!

Thanks for your support ladies!


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## MoBaby

That's excellent!!! Yay!! Fx for you!!


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## MsRipple

Fingers crossed Chicken soup! :)

My husband's mtese ended up not being successful. 

After 2 sessions with a counselor and discussion amongst ourselves, we decided to move forward using donor and to not wait more than a few months as I am over 35. 
I took the lead on reviewing donors as my husband seemed weirded out by the process. When I brought up the sperm donor selection my husband was super uncomfortable and said that he still felt neutral or slightly negative about using a donor. But he thinks we should proceed as we have no alternative (since his concern is about genetic connections, adoption doesn't solve the issue for him) and we are both getting older and just do not have the biological time to give a few years to see how he really feels. We talked and talked and I cried of course. He's not sure what will make him more comfortable and how long it will take. We did end up looking at a few of the donor profiles together and picked one out of the few I selected.

On the one hand I don't want to wait and feel like he will be an amazing father. And from what he has said waiting a few months won't necessarily change things. On the other the hand what if he is never comfortable, not even after our child is born? Is this uncertainty fair a child? Will it ruin our marriage? What is funny to me is that I asked him how he would feel if we needed to use donor eggs and he said he would feel almost the same - that from a biological point of view he selected me as a mate (got to love scientists) and that to have a new biological mate would be distressing. I don't feel nearly as strongly about this.

Would love to get any perspectives out there from others who have had similar issues come up.


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## MoBaby

Totally understandable! We never did donor because my husband was not on board. We could have easily did donor iui and probably been successful since I have no fertility issues (besides a misshapen uterus but my fertility is great). So we spent tons of money on ivf/icsi. When he finally decided something else needed to be done we got preggo with our last 2 embryos.
I'm not sure when he will feel comfortable. Just make sure he is involved as much as he can be. 
You have eggs already, right? So it's basically getting you ready from this point which doesn't take long.
I think sticking with counseling is the way to go for now.
I'm sorry the mtese was unsuccessful. At least your husband won't have that what if in the back of his mind. Like what if the mtese would have found some? It didn't so he knows now what the answer is.


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## rdleela

Best of luck, chickensoup! That's awesome that two made it!!

Ripple, we just used donor eggs, he's now 6 weeks old. I love him every bit as much as my daughter, who is biologically mine. It may take him sometime to get used to the idea. Honestly, I rarely think about it. I usually just think about it when I'm in a forum like this and someone is asking questions. do you guys have to go for counseling as a part of the donor process? We had to, and I would definitely recommend it, especially if he isn't all for it right now. He needs time for it to all sink in.


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## Hopeful Cat

My baby girl is almost 5 months old now and i think about the donor and im grateful for the generosity that person had to give me and my husband this wonderful daughter. It's not something that will be easy for us, but a part of who she is that we will go through together as a family. We love her unconditionally and the fact she isnt biologically related to my husband makes him no less her father. MsRipple, i hope you and your husband go through the process as smoothly as we have.


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## MsRipple

I hope so too. We did a long session with a counselor a few weeks ago. I'm pressing him to continue as we move forward.


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## Hopeful Cat

Back at the start of our ivf journey dh was first up against the idea of donor but when i voiced that the alternative was to stop me from passing on genes he was a little more open. Then after years of failed cycles and being forced to face the next step we were both eager just to do whatever it took to bring our baby into the world (no matter the genetics). I still had lots of frozen eggs so donor sperm was just the next logical step for us. I think using icsi was far easier for us to consider than if the sperm was to be inserted into me. Seems more like u are putting a person back in rather than procreating with another if u know what i mean. We had many counselling sessions too before they put us on the donor waiting list. I hope they help you work out your path


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## MoBaby

Chicken how are you doing?


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## Chickensoup85

Hi MoBaby. Not doing too well I'm afraid. I started spotting and cramping yesterday morning so think it's all over. Spotting is getting darker and heavier. It's not even OTD until Wednesday. We were told the chances were low. I hate being in limbo though, wish period would just start now. 

MsRipple, I'm sorry you are in such a horrible situation. No experience but my thoughts are with you.


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## MoBaby

:(


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## bubumaci

:hugs:


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## rdleela

I'm sorry, Chickensoup :(
I hope this turns around for you!


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## Chickensoup85

Thanks guys. 

Yesterday the spotting stopped so obviously I got my hopes up but then it started again this afternoon with stronger cramps. OTD tomorrow. I'll let you know the outcome, although I think we can all guess. haha.


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## Chickensoup85

BFN


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## bubumaci

:hug:


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## deafgal01

:hugs:


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## Rainbow123

Chickensoup - Sorry to hear this cycle didn't work. Sending you big hugs. XXXXX

MsRipple - We used donor sperm for our little boy, who is now 19 months old. I can honestly say that I am so truly happy that DH has azoospermia! That is the strangest thing to say, I know, but if he didn't then my gorgeous son would not be here. I can not imagine a world without him, he is perfect in every way and brings us both such happiness. We frequently say how much better our lives have become now he's in it.
When we first found out there was a chance we'd have to use DS, DH said it made him feel physically sick. He was really against the idea of using donor sperm and would not discuss it with me at all. We were put on a waiting list for a year before DH had his mTESE and when they found no sperm we had about a month to process it all. I pushed that we needed to find donor sperm and set a date for when we would have our first round of IUI. DH still felt weird about it but he agreed to do it so we could have a family. At first when I was pregnant he didn't seem that excited but as we had more scans and the baby started kicking he got more and more involved. When our son was born, my husband cried he was so full of (happy) emotion. As soon as he was born, all the worries I'd ever had about using donor sperm just floated away. I couldn't ask for a more hands on, caring father for our little boy and there is so much love between them. There is no father who loves their son more. 
It must be so hard for our men to come to terms with using DS, it is such an alien concept to use genetic material from another man. 
I know every experience is different but the change in DH's perspective on the use of DS has been colossal. He really has done a 180 degree turnaround from when we first discussed DS. 
I hope that things work out for you. If you ever want to PM me, please do (but just be warned I don't get on here that much these days so I might take a few days to reply!).

Love to all!
XXXXXXXXXXXX


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## rdleela

I'm so sorry Chickensoup xoxo


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## Hopeful Cat

So sorry chickensoup xx 

I made a call today to the ivf place to start the ball rolling for trying for number 2...im full of nerves and dread. I hate that place!


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## MsRipple

I'm so sorry Chicken Soup - sending you hugs.

Thank you ladies for all of your perspective. My husband is super practical/rational so he's on board with soldiering forward and working out what we need to as we go. We are both hesitant about the realities and cost of adoption which is our only other option for a child, although my one set of friends who did adopt had a seamless, wonderful experience. 

So we've picked our donor (ok, I picked him and my husband gave the okay for him out of a group of 4 or so others) and we were going to do our first cycle of IUI this month - monitored and unmedicated except for a trigger- but the dr. cancelled it. He was concerned that my lead follicle was too small prior to surge. Said it was likely a fluke, which would mean this cycle was not a good one to spend the money on, or that it was just what my body did in which case we would move forward next cycle. So based on his advice we decided to cancel this one and move forward next cycle. Sometimes it feels like this will never happen....


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## Rainbow123

Good luck Hopeful Cat! XXX

Aw Ms Ripple! It is so frustrating. I hope you get the green lights next cycle. 
After my m/c I was going to try the first cycle I could and then I had a stupid cyst on my ovary - doh! It was looking like I wouldn't go for IUI this month until at Day 14 my lead follicle had suddenly grown (they weren't doing much of anything between Day 10 and 12) and looked really good so my FS was happy for me to go for it. My IUI was this Wednesday just gone so I'm now having to endure the 2ww! Aargh!

XXX


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## bubumaci

Fingers crossed for you :)


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## Chickensoup85

Good luck HopefulCat, I hope it all goes smoothly for you. 

MsRipple, I everything works out for you to go ahead this cycle. The waiting is awful.

Good luck with the tww Rainbow, I hope it goes quickly for you. When's your OTD? Got my fingers crossed for you.


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## Chickensoup85

Hi ladies, 

Just a quick update. The clinic finally called me. They said that the poor quality of the embryos is likely due to the poor quality of my husbands sperm (retrieved via mTESE in 2013). Next time, they want to defrost 2 vials of sperm in order to choose the best ones. I'm not hopeful. I think we will see exactly the same next time and then that'll be the end of the road for us. We only have 3 vials of sperm left and we can't really afford to go a third time when chances are so low. 

We are going to go ahead with one more cycle and they said we can start on day 21 of my next cycle. I didn't realise it could go ahead so quickly!

I want to do everything I can to increase our chances. Any tips?? I am considering acupuncture.


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## MoBaby

We used sperm from 2013 in one of our cycles. It had just enough viable to fertilize 13 eggs. We ended with 6 embryos that cycle. I didn't get my baby from there but I did get pregnant twice but miscarried, not related to the sperm. So there is hope for the frozen. I'll keep all fx for you this next time is the take home.


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## Chickensoup85

Thanks MoBaby. I'll keep hoping!

I had decided I was going to donate my eggs once our 'journey' was over, however that may end, but read that you can't have low AMH or be a poor responder so I'm not eligible for that! I'm still going to discuss it with them though. 

Sorry, an irrelevant paragraph; I'm just so frustrated by it all.


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## MoBaby

I'm too old now (34) to donate. Which I make a great number of eggs but no one wants "old" eggs. I can't remember but I think the cut off is either 30 or 32. And with all my circles people will think my eggs are bad when it's really a sperm issue. Oh well :)


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## Rainbow123

Oh no! I wanted to donate my eggs too (after we have another baby) but I'm 31 now so I'll probably be too old by then! Feeling old now haha!

My OTD is 5th October, Chickensoup. Usually I don't last that long before testing but I'm going to give it my best shot! 

XXX


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## Chickensoup85

Rainbow, how are you doing? Only 3 days until OTD! Have you held out so far?


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## Rainbow123

I've held out until now but I'm thinking of testing tomorrow morning! I've been feeling pretty nauseous today and so I reckon if that IS down to being pregnant I will have enough hormones present tomorrow to do a test. ALSO - my cat is being really affectionate towards me! Sounds bizarre but the only times she's done this is when I was pregnant with my son and when I was pregnant with my angel baby. It could be grasping at straws but it's a funny coincidence! I'll keep you posted!
XXX


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## Chickensoup85

Sounds promising! Fingers crossed for you!


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## MoBaby

Fx rainbow!


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## Rainbow123

It was a stinky BFN. :-( Hopefully we'll have better luck next time! I can be patient, I know I can!
X


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## Chickensoup85

I'm so sorry Rainbow :(


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## bubumaci

:hugs:


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## MoBaby

Darn! So sorry :(


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## Rainbow123

Thanks lovelies. It's ok. If I've learnt anything from this whole experience is that my forever babies are worth waiting for. Feeling positive for next cycle and as many cycles as it blooming well takes!
XXX


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## MsRipple

Hugs Rainbow - possible it's just a too-early test?

I am onto my second try at a first dIUI. CD4- dr said at first monitoring appt. that all looked good so we are continuing with a nonmedicated (except for trigger) cycle. Emotions are all over the place and am feeling kind of depressed - can't quite pinpoint the particular reason.


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## Rainbow123

I think we might be cycling together MsRipple! I hope you are feeling a bit better now? I'm now on Day 7 and planning on going ahead with IUI, the same as you (non-medicated apart from a trigger shot). I have my first scan to look at follicles on Friday, which will be Day 10. Hoping this will be our cycle!
X


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## MsRipple

@rainbow. We are almost the same day! I went in on cd 8 and I had a handful of follicles measuring around 10/11. I go back in tomorrow (cd 13). I am running to catch a flight right after and I'm going to take the trigger shot with me just in case. I hope this one goes ahead for me. I just want the feeling of "maybe!" Which I haven't had since my husbands diagnosis

And yes I am feeling a bit better thank you!


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## Rainbow123

Did you end up needing your trigger shot last night MsRipple?
I ended up doing mine on Saturday night and going for my IUI yesterday (Monday) which was Day 13 so very different to last month which was Day 17! Everything went fine apart from I had a different lady doing the procedure and she was so flipping rough with that darn speculum (she actually made me bleed which I've never had before in my three previous IUIs!). Let the 2ww commence and I'm hoping I can keep my mind off it but I very much doubt I'll be able to! I think I'm going to test on 30th October which would be the day before my period is due.

It's been pretty quiet on here lately - how's everyone doing?

XXX


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## Chickensoup85

Good luck with the www Rainbow.

MsRipple, I hope everything is going to plan.

I'm starting a new round of ICSI soon. Due to start down regging on 4th November. Sounds like it's ages away but less than 3 weeks. So nervous this time!


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## MsRipple

Rainbow, I triggered last night and go in for the IUI tomorrow morning (CD 16). Fingers crossed for both of us! Assuming my cycle is as normal, my period is due November 2. I am going on a last minute long weekend vacation to Paris, so that will hopefully keep me from fixating too much during the tww (yeah right! :) )


----------



## Rainbow123

That's exciting Chickensoup! 3 weeks isn't long at all!

Good luck for tomorrow MsRipple! Fingers and toes crossed for you!

XXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Good luck MsRipple!


----------



## sharon99

Hello! It's been a while since I've been on here. I thought I'd pop in and take a look... and had to write a quick something as I seem to be in the same boat as you, MsRipple and Rainbow! I have a 2-yr-old from a donor IUI, and we recently decided to go for #2. So, I had my first IUI on Wednesday! Natural cycle. Ugg, I forgot how terrible the TWW is, and how, 1 day after the IUI, I am already imagining nausea and sore boobs. THE WORST! :D I hope you are all well, and it's so nice there are a few of us at the same point! Fingers crossed for everyone.


----------



## Rainbow123

How exciting Sharon - good luck and welcome to the 2ww club! It is nice to have others in the same boat to endure the wait with! 
I've just realised how fitting it is that my period is due on 31st October this time, seeing as it is often referred to as 'the witch'! 
My plan is now to test on 29th (it's getting earlier every day haha!) but I've got a pregnancy test which can be used up to 4 days before my period is due so I might yet lose patience and test earlier! I was worried that my HCG shot to trigger my ovulation might still be in my system if I tested early but I've been reading things online that say with the 5000IU it should be out of my system after 10 days (which would be next Tuesday). 
XXX


----------



## Mikihob

I am so excited for you to test!! EEEK!


----------



## Rainbow123

How are you doing Sharon and MsRipple?

XXX


----------



## sharon99

I hope that Halloween witch stays away for you, Rainbow! Ms Ripple, I wish I had a vacation to Paris to take my mind off things! :)

Only a few days left until you test, Rainbow! Eeep! Doing well here and not obsessing too much. :)


----------



## MsRipple

Hi ladies! Not much going on here except some phantom symptom spotting of course :). 7 dpiui for me and leaving for Paris! I'm torn about whether to take a test with me, but I think I'm going to leave it at home to keep me from testing. If I can I want to wait until at least the date my period is due. And if I am feeling inspired to test, I can buy one there - plus, then it will have international flair :)

Sharon/Rainbow - how about you guys?

ChickenSoup- Nov 4 is coming up soon!


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## Rainbow123

How lovely MsRipple! Have a wonderful time in Paris!

Sounds like you're doing well Sharon! When are you planning on testing?

Ooooh it is getting close Chickensoup! 

I did a pregnancy test this morning and it was negative. It said was 96% accurate for testing on this day (4 days before my expected period) so I'm pretty sure this means we're out of the race! I'm feeling ok about it though. I know that God has a plan for me and so I will keep going for fertility treatment until we are blessed with another little miracle. Hoping it won't be too much longer though as we only have 3 more lots of donor sperm left!

Onto Clomid next cycle to increase our chances! 

XXX


----------



## sharon99

I'm really sorry to hear that, Rainbow! Sounds like you've got a good outlook, but it's still tough. Hugs! And fingers crossed for next cycle. 

MsRipple, that would be a good story to tell your future baby, if you bought a test in Paris!! I think fear of asking for a pregnancy test in French would keep me from doing it. :)

I prefer AF to strike rather than a negative test! So I'm going to wait until 2 weeks (Nov. 2) to test if she hasn't arrived by then...


----------



## MsRipple

Well I didn't test in Paris, but I did have fun :). Lots of shopping, sight seeing, eating, and drinking wine (not too much though). 
One of my friends told me/us that she was pregnant in Paris. I knew she was trying so I was kind of expecting it. I am so happy for her, but couldn't help feeling a big envious/sad for myself. And then irritated because I just want to feel pure joy for her without bringing me into it. Mostly it was good, but I kinda got really sad when she started buying a few bebe related items. I told her later that day about most of the issues we had been dealing with just so she knew (mostly so she would understand any weirdness from me and maybe hold off on going totally baby love in my presence). 

My period is due today (13dpo). I started spotting a little bit of brown blood 11dpo before we got on the plane which was unusual for me. I was upset as I thought I was getting my period a few days early. A small amount of spotting brown yesterday (12dpo) as well. I temped yesterday and today and my temp is high compared to past cycles (usually it does down 12dpo and then again 13dpo to below or close to cover). This am I still in my ovulation temp range (~0.7 degress F over cover). I was thinking of testing today, but the spotting increased this am and included a bit of pink. I didn't want to get a negative so I just didn't test.


----------



## Rainbow123

It sounds like you had a lovely time in Paris, MsRipple! It is completely normal to be having those mixed feelings about your friend being pregnant, don't beat yourself up about it. Have you continued spotting? I hope it was implantation bleeding and not your period!

How are you doing Sharon? Keeping my fingers crossed!

Chickensoup - Is it around about now that you start stimming?

This cycle I am trying out a medicated cycle. I thought I was going to be using clomid but I am injecting every other day with 150 of menopur instead. Hoping that I don't have more than 3 mature follies when I go back next Wednesday as this would mean cancelling my IUI. We will see!

Hope all you ladies are doing well. Sending lots of love XXXXX


----------



## sankafl

Been trying to conceive for 2 years.... no luck .
DH diagnosed with azoospermia.... we dont know why. He has been doing a barrage of tests... genetic... blood... SA. 
Waiting for results. His hormones are a little out of whack but DR doesnt seem to think that the hormones is the only reason for azo. 

Its so hard to have all these pregnant friends in your life. Friends with cute sweet little babies.... I hate myself for pulling away from people because its so upsetting to be around them. 

Now we have to start playing the insurance game.... who covers more, who covers anything?. Im so lost and upset. 

Im 27, he is 45. Neither one had kids.

Would really love to hear from people who had azo and we able to conceive naturally( fat chance!) very scared of the idea of IVH.:cry::cry::cry:


----------



## deafgal01

MsRipple said:


> One of my friends told me/us that she was pregnant in Paris. I knew she was trying so I was kind of expecting it. I am so happy for her, but couldn't help feeling a big envious/sad for myself. And then irritated because I just want to feel pure joy for her without bringing me into it.

Totally can relate to this. My cousin texted me (she just got married over the summer) a week or so ago to let me know that she's expecting (only 7 weeks now so at the time she was only 6 weeks), then she posted on Facebook an announcement. I honestly didn't have much time to absorb the news but yeah, I totally feel ya on that - happy for them, but same time sad/angry that I can't have that experience. I texted my sis to make sure she knew cuz she doesn't check Facebook a lot - and she didn't. But it was nice texting with my sis cuz first thing she asked was how do I feel. I was tempted to just say I'm ok or fine instead of my actual feelings but I opened up with her about it and admitted what I really felt (as I knew she would be better for me to vent to than saying all that to my cousin who's excited).

I offered to host a baby shower for my cousin - she said that would be wonderful so I'm planning a baby shower for the spring. I guess that's part of my healing journey somehow - God works in funny ways. I did still cry a lot the first few days of finding out about that and being sad for me. It didn't help that the following weekend after finding out about that, my spouse and I had a dinner party thing at his dad's house - so I was seeing a pregnant step sis there. That was tough too. My spouse wondered if I should avoid any family gatherings for the next year or so. I told him no, cuz I need to learn to cope/deal with this and avoiding it isn't the answer (I have done that in the past cuz that was easier at the time and it was family that I don't see often anyways) but now with it being family we do see on a regular basis (or every once in a while), I need to learn to put on a brave face and enjoy the time with them (but at the same time, finding appropriate times to cry it out when I need to). 

Such a pity that my students don't gift me wine bottles. I figured out randomly the other day since I have 100 students or so, I would have more than enough wine for the whole year if each one gave me a bottle of sweet wine. :haha: Go figure... Such a pity they don't do that.


----------



## MsRipple

@deaf gal- you are very sweet to offer to host a baby shower. I'm not sure I would be up for that! But maybe :)

Unfortunately that was my period and not implantation bleeding. So onto Cycle 2.

@ Sanka- good luck. Unfortunately, unless your husband has a blockage that can be fixed natural ttc won't be in the cards. But it could be that he has a blockage. Also, depending on the cause, there are various things that can be done.You should have more info once you get all of those tests back.

Editing to add @Sanka that you are certainly not alone! This is a tough diagnosis and it can sometimes feel like a lonely road, but there are many options. Most important is to care for yourself, your husband, your marriage, and to get answers so you can chart a course forward.


----------



## bubumaci

Hi Sanka :howdy:
I am sorry to hear that you have been hit by the Azoo train too! :hugs: As MsRipple says - unless it is obstructive Azoospermia (which they may be able to do something about), the reality is, that you won't get pregnant naturally :hugs: It is a very tough diagnosis.

MsRipple - :hugs:

Deafgal - you are a saint to be offering to host the baby shower! Even though we have our miracle baby - it still stings me when I hear of pregnancy announcements (in a women group on FB, day before yesterday someone announced and it was an "oopsie" ... just the day that I got my period - and I was thinking, how unfair this world is) :kiss:


----------



## mimi4

sankafl- I am sorry you are experiencing difficulties. I don't know many details, as these are personal issues. But a husband of my friend has been diagnosed with azoospermia lately. They have got an initial appointment in top ivf clinic in Gdansk and have decided to start their ivf (I guess) treatment. Unfortunately she couldn't become pregnant without medical assistance. Good luck


----------



## Chickensoup85

Rainbow and Ripple, I'm sorry about your BFNs. Wishing you lots of luck for your next cycles.

Deafgal, you are an amazing person, offering to host the baby shower. Even with my miracle baby, I still struggle with other peoples pregnancies and have recently declined going to two baby showers because I just didn't feel I could. I honestly feel that, even if we are able to have a second baby, I will alway have a knee jerk reaction of sadness when somebody announces they are pregnant. Infertility has scarred me for life! 

Sankafl, I am so sorry you've had this terrible diagnosis. I really hope it's obstructive azoospermia and can be sorted for you.

I am now on day 8 of down regulation; I don't know where this week has gone! So far, all going ok. I have my baseline scan a week Monday. 

I have started acupuncture to see if that helps, either with increasing my response or embryo quality. Has anyone else done it?


----------



## Rainbow123

Sankafl - I hope you get some positive answers from your tests. Sending you big hugs. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Chickensoup - Exciting times! What will happen at your baseline scan? Is this to check how your meds are affecting your follicles?

I went for DIUI #5 today (4th since trying for a sibling, 3rd since losing my angel baby). I found out on Wednesday that I had two lovely looking follicles after injecting with menopur every other day so that ups our chances. The thing I can't get my head around is that we had a 15% chance each cycle when I was non-medicated but even though we've managed to mature 2 follicles it's still only 17-20%. Hmmmmm...

How are you doing MsRipple and Sharon?

XXXXX


----------



## bubumaci

Fingers crossed for you Rainbow! :hugs:


----------



## MsRipple

I am getting ready for IUI #2. CD13 and have a lead follicle at 15mm - I go back for monitoring tomorrow.

This weekend while at a party, and while holding a glass of wine, someone asked me if I was pregnant. Then when I tried to laugh it off and say "no just fat", asked me several more times and acted like they didn't believe me when I said I was not. By the third time I had to run off to the restroom for a good cry. He was apologetic, but man what an unintentional asshole.


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## bubumaci

:hugs: I'm so sorry :(


----------



## MsRipple

Just got a call from my RE who says I am doing in IUI on Friday without a trigger as I am just beginning to surge. Follicle was at 18mm this am. I have to admit I am a bit hesitant about this as I don't really know how it will be possible to get the timing totally right, which is particularly important as the frozen guys don't live so long. I trust my doctor, but I am nervous that the timing of this is going to be messed up.

Have any of you done a frozen IUI without trigger?


----------



## Mikihob

MsRipple said:


> Just got a call from my RE who says I am doing in IUI on Friday without a trigger as I am just beginning to surge. Follicle was at 18mm this am. I have to admit I am a bit hesitant about this as I don't really know how it will be possible to get the timing totally right, which is particularly important as the frozen guys don't live so long. I trust my doctor, but I am nervous that the timing of this is going to be messed up.
> 
> Have any of you done a frozen IUI without trigger?


Hi Ms Ripple. I did a frozen IUI without a trigger last year and it led to my sweet miracle baby. I did get a positive ovulation test the day before my IUI which I think really helped with our timing. I had my IUI 24 hours after the positive test. I hope that this IUI leads to your baby. :hugs:


----------



## MsRipple

Thank you Miki I hope I have the same luck and joy as you!!!!!

I do think my doctor is pretty careful and on the nose about these things, so I guess I will just be happy about getting to save the trigger in my fridge and hope to not have to use it next cycle!


----------



## Chickensoup85

Good luck MsRipple and Rainbow. Got everything crossed for you both. 

MsRipple, I can't believe he didn't just get the hint and shut up. What is wrong with people, thinking they can be so personal? I recently went to a party where two separate people asked me if we were going to have another one / told me they thought I'd be pregnant again by now. Both of these people know my son was conceived through IVF. I was speechless. 

Rainbow, the baseline scan will be to check my lining in thin and everything has shut down, ready to start stimulation.


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## Rainbow123

How did it go on Friday MsRipple? Keeping everything crossed for you! XXX


----------



## MsRipple

My IUI on Friday was pretty seamless, but last night/this am caught a really nasty stomach flu from some visiting family and I'm feeling pretty bad. Spent the day alternating between sleeping, moaning in bed and running to bathroom. Have not had a stomach bug in 15 years or so. Worried that this will mess w my IUI plus not sure how i am going to finish all of the work i have due before thanksgiving.

How are things going with you Rainbow? Are you testing? your avatar says expecting so I got excited :)

Chicken soup- what's going on with you?


----------



## Chickensoup85

Glad to hear the IUI was ok MsRipple but sorry to hear about the bug! Sick bugs are the worst! I hope you feel better soon and get everything you need to do, done.

When is OTD Rainbow? Are you going to wait or test early?

I had my baseline scan yesterday and everything looked good so I started phase 2 today, stimulation. I'll go in next week to see how the follicles are developing. I just feel it's all so hopeless. If the sperm is no good, then what's the point?


----------



## Rainbow123

Hi ladies!

MsRipple - You poor thing having a stomach bug, that really sucks. I hope you are feeling lots better very soon. I'm sure your employer will be understanding about your work if you've had a stomach bug. There really isn't anything you can do other than focus on getting better!

Chickensoup - That's so exciting that you are onto stimulation! This whole infertility journey is such a rollercoaster of emotions isn't it? I've been feeling pretty hopeless recently too. I think there is such a humungous amount of pressure on each cycle because of all the emotional, physical and financial implications, it's hard not to feel low. 

Soooooooo...
I tested this morning. I nearly chickened out but I did it in the end. I got a pregnant result! My poor DH was so confused because I came back into the bedroom and I was shaking and crying. I'm still only half believing it and I plan on testing again in a few days to check it's real - I hope so badly that it is but I'm not letting myself get too excited just in case. 

Sending all you azoo ladies so much love.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## bubumaci

Oh, Rainbow, how exciting is that?? Huge congratulations! :happydance:


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## MoBaby

Congrats rainbow!


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## Chickensoup85

Yay!! Congratulations Rainbow!!!!!!!!!


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## MsRipple

Yeah Rainbow! Such great news!!!!!

:happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance:

Chickensoup - how is stimulation going?


----------



## Rainbow123

Thank you ladies! XXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

How is everyone doing?

MsRipple, when is OTD? Are you going to hold out or test?

What are your next steps Rainbow? Do you get to go for a scan soon?

I had my first progress scan today; follicle growth looks good so far. Fingers crossed they progress properly! The next one is on Wednesday.


----------



## Rainbow123

Yay for follicle growth Chickensoup! Exciting times!  I hope everything goes well on Wednesday.

I would have gone to see my FS when I was 6 weeks however she's not at work that week so I have to wait until I'm 7 weeks. It's going to be torturous. I've already started filling my head with doom and gloom, these next few weeks can't go fast enough. I'm feeling so scared about going for my scan because I'm worried something awful is going to happen again. It was at my 8 week scan last time that we found out that I'd lost the baby. I knew it was going to be tough when I got pregnant again and so I really shouldn't moan but they really need to invent crystal balls so I can see everything is going to be ok. Anyway...

How are you feeling now MsRipple? Have you managed to recover from that nasty bug? Keeping everything crossed for you as I know you only a couple more days left of your 2ww!

XXX


----------



## MsRipple

I am recovered, though this thing is now going around the rest of my family.

AF is due tomorrow. Haven't tested. I have a feeling (physically) she's coming, but am still holding out a bit of hope.

Rainbow- I'm hoping the next few weeks fly by for you!


----------



## Chickensoup85

MsRipple, how's it going?

Rainbow, it must be so hard to keep the worries away after your last experience. I'd be exactly the same. Remember though, you carried son. I'm with you on the crystal ball though. 

My progress scan went well and so all set for egg collection on Monday.


----------



## Rainbow123

I'm glad you're feeling better MsRipple.  I hope it wasn't AF!

Eeeeek how exciting Chickensoup! Keeping everything crossed! Do you know how many eggs you'll be collecting? Thank you for your reminder about carrying my son, it's true and I need to keep reminding myself of that. XXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Just thought I'd give you a quick update after my egg collection today - 12 eggs! That's double my usual amount. The only thing that's changed is that I did acupuncture this time.


----------



## Rainbow123

Wow Chickensoup, that's amazing! How exciting that your little embryos are now beginning to form! What day do you usually go back in for your embryo transfer? So excited for you! XXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thanks Rainbow. Can't wait to hear tomorrow how many have fertilised! Hoping for a 5 day transfer on Saturday.


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## bubumaci

Fabulous news :) :kiss: can't wait to hear your update tomorrow :)


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## MoBaby

That's great news! Fx for good fertilization report!


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## Chickensoup85

6 fertilised. That's not bad but we normally have a higher fertilisation rate so worried about the quality! I was also told I'm at risk of OHSS so now freaking out that they'll cancel the transfer and none will be good enough to freeze!


----------



## bubumaci

I will be keeping everything crossed for you! And that OHSS stays at bay!


----------



## deafgal01

Oh my goodness. I'll send positive vibes and thoughts to you Chicken... Hopefully the transfer still happens and that OHSS is not a major concern.


----------



## Chickensoup85

OHSS only mild so they went ahead with he transfer today! One early blastocyst put back. Fingers crossed!

How is everyone else?


----------



## MoBaby

Chickensoup85 said:


> OHSS only mild so they went ahead with he transfer today! One early blastocyst put back. Fingers crossed!
> 
> How is everyone else?

That's great! Any frosties? Fx for you!


----------



## bubumaci

Everything crossed for you!!


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thanks ladies! No frosties so this really is our last shot!


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## Rainbow123

Keeping everything crossed for you Chickensoup! I hope the next two weeks go super quickly for you! XXXXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thanks Rainbow. How are you doing? Have you had your scan yet?


----------



## MsRipple

Best of luck Chicken!!!! Are you planning to test at home?

We did our third unmedicated IUI today. I felt positive about the last one (bfn) and feel negative about this one. With the lowish success rates for unmedicated frozen cycles, I am starting to feel like this may be a waste of time and money.


----------



## bubumaci

When will you be testing, Chicken? How are you feeling?

Everything crossed for you too, MsRipple!


----------



## Chickensoup85

Sorry to hear you are not feeling positive this time MsRipple; it's so hard to keep positive but if your clinic thought thought it wasn't likely to work, I'm sure they'd suggest a different route for you. Got everything crossed for you. 

My official test day is Wednesday. It'll be a home pregnancy test as they don't do BETAs here. I'm not feeling very positive to be honest. Today I am 6dp5dt, the same day last cycle that I started getting period pains and spotting. Last night the pains started so just waiting for the spotting now.


----------



## bubumaci

It's true. I remember when we were going through treatment after treatment after treatment. And my doctor said (because we wanted to know our chances), that he really thought we would get pregnant - he just didn't know, how long it would take / how many tries it would take ...

Oh, Chicken, I hope that your pains aren't period! My fingers are still crossed! xoxo


----------



## Rainbow123

I have my scan on Monday, Chickensoup. It has been such a long wait. I just hope everything is ok.

I've been thinking about you a lot MsRipple. Sorry it didn't work last cycle. I know what you mean about it feeling like a waste of money as I'd got to that place too! My first two unmedicated cycles I'd been feeling quite positive, then my last one (which was medicated and we stimulated two follicles with menopur) I had decided was a write-off. I told my husband that I'd had enough of the emotional rollercoaster of IUI and was already planning ahead for an IVF cycle around Easter. I hope this cycle is the one for you. Keeping everything crossed. XXXXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

How was your scan Rainbow?


----------



## MsRipple

TY Chicken TY Rainbow. How are you ladies doing?

I am keeping busy getting ready for the holidays. but of course doesn't keep me from obsessing re: tww. 6 dpiui today Having back pain, sore boobs and cramps, but not particularly unusual for me.

Have a longer term plan in my mind if needed- will do one more unmedicated IUI, then move onto several medicated cycles using meds (and covered by insurance! yeah!). If that doesn't work after a reasonable time IVF, fresh or using my younger frozen eggs TBD. I like having a plan.

I got some mail from friends who have recently had kids- assume it was Christmas cards. I felt like a bit of a jerk, but I just put them aside to open at some other time. I'm happy they are so happy but lately it's been feeling so hard to have everyone around me getting pregnant.


----------



## Rainbow123

Did you test today Chickensoup? Praying for a positive result for you. :hugs:

I'm the same re: plans, MsRipple! It helps to feel a bit more in control of the situation. 

I had my scan on Monday. I had convinced myself that something awful had happened again, I was in tears before going in. BUT my little bean is in there with a beautiful little heartbeat! I was a blubbering mess, I was so relieved and happy. My FS was really pleased and has said now that she has seen a healthy heartbeat at 7w3d she is 95% sure that it will continue to be a healthy pregnancy. She gave me the choice of having another scan next week, which I obviously leapt at, so I will get to check up on him/her next Thursday which will be 8w6d. Silly thing is is that I've started worrying again. I haven't had any morning sickness for a couple of days which is troubling me. I never thought I would be praying for morning sickness, but I am! 

XXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Yay! That's fantastic news Rainbow! I'm so happy for you. I think it's only natural to to continue worry until that baby is safely in your arms but just remember - 95%! That's great!

So I tested on Wednesday... BFP! Today I panicked that it wasn't real so did another test which still showed up positive, yay!


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## bubumaci

Oh, Chicken, how wonderful! Congratulations! :) :happydance:
Merry Christmas!!


----------



## MoBaby

Chicken that is fantastic !


----------



## Rainbow123

Chickensoup - THAT IS FANTASTIC NEWS! Congratulations, I am so happy for you! I did 5 tests this time round haha! What a lovely Christmas present! XXXXXXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Thanks ladies! I'm cautiously excited!


----------



## MsRipple

Congratulations Chicken!


----------



## Hopeful Cat

Congratulations Rainbow and Chicken &#9786;


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## MsRipple

I tested Wed. Morning and bfp! Blood beta (14dpo) came back at 144


----------



## MoBaby

Congrats!! So many bfps!


----------



## deafgal01

Happy new year to you ladies!

I'm sad I still haven't managed a bfp so in the new year, we'll be exploring our options - whether it be foster or adopting or still trying again using different method.

On the other hand, so excited for all the 2017 babies - I have a cousin expecting in June, a classmate in June too, another classmate is expecting one, and a step sister in law expecting in spring in addition to all of you ladies in here (Rainbow and Chicken).


----------



## Chickensoup85

Yay! Congratulations MsRipple! So happy for you!

Sorry you are still waiting deafgal; I have everything crossed for you that 2017 is your year.


----------



## bubumaci

Wonderful news, MsRipple! (my beta at 14dpo was 118 - from 27 at 11dpo) :happydance:

Deafgal - I really hope that 2017 will bring your forever baby (whichever route it takes) with it! <3


----------



## Chickensoup85

Yay! Congratulations Bubumaci!


----------



## bubumaci

Oh ... not now ... 2 years ago :smile: I was just commenting on how Mrs Ripple's was higher than mine at 14dpo.


----------



## Rainbow123

Congratulations MsRipple, that is such wonderful news! I am so happy for you!  

Chickensoup - When will you be going for your first scan?

Deafgal - I really hope this is the year for you. It's rubbish having to wait so long.

We had our second scan last Thursday at 8w6d showing a beautiful little perfectly formed foetus with little arms and legs. He/she even gave us a wiggle which was exceptionally cute. My FS is really happy with the way everything is going so my next scan won't be until the normal 12 week scan everyone has in the UK. Starting to allow myself to enjoy the pregnancy now that we've got this far.  I will be so glad when I'm out of the 12 week zone though! 

XXX


----------



## Chickensoup85

Oh, haha, sorry Bubumaci!


----------



## Chickensoup85

That's great news Rainbow! Glad you're feeling a bit more relaxed and hope the next few weeks fly by for you.

I've got my viability scan on Friday. I'm a bit nervous. At this point with my son I had pretty constant nausea and cramping (stretching pains) but this time I don't. Cramping stopped over a week ago and feeling ok! Got everything crossed it's just my body coping better this time, now it knows what's happening, but I just can't shake the sinking feeling that the worst has happened.


----------



## Rainbow123

I've convinced myself so many times with this pregnancy that the worst has happened due to a myriad of reasons. How many weeks are you? My morning sickness only started after 6 weeks and it started quite weakly, then went for a few days, then came back with a vengeance then tapered off and disappeared again for a few days and now it's back again! I hope the next few weeks fly by for you too, early pregnancy is tough.
Good luck for Friday! XXX


----------



## MsRipple

Deaf Gal- I am sending you many good vibes for this being your year, whatever path you guys end up choosing. Do you have any ideas re: next steps? Sorry for asking this, but was donor sperm ever a consideration for you guys?

Chicken- Good luck tomorrow. I am having an early scan at 5w2d tomorrow. I think they are looking for the gestational sac. But I too have been googling the worst, so I know what you are thinking.


----------



## Rainbow123

How did you ladies get on at your scans? Been keeping everything crossed for you both. XXX


----------



## MsRipple

Everything looking good so far. 5 weeks 2 days - saw the gestational sac and a yolk sac. Everything where it should be and a good size. Too early for Hb. Hcg continued to have good doubling. Go back at 7w 1day

Husband being a bit detached to me versus excited - I don't mind if he didn't come to this ultrasound but I'd like him to come to next. This admittedly requires a fair amt of rescheduling which he seems noncommittal abt. I think this is a combo of general pref disinterest but also must be somewhat related to donor issue. Have you guys gone through this?


----------



## Rainbow123

That's great news MsRipple! Yippee! Do you have a date for your next scan yet?
I can totally relate to what you're saying. I think it took a good few months for DH to get his head round it properly when we were expecting our first. It was a gradual thing. By the time he was getting kicked by the baby in the middle of the night he was so much more involved emotionally and it was onwards and upwards from there! As soon as our LB arrived you wouldn't have known there had been any of those initial worries and he is the most amazing, caring, hands-on dad. It's been a completely different story with this baby, I think because it's all so normal to him now. He has been excited and emotionally ready, which is so much nicer for me, but I completely get why he was like he was the first time round. The fact that your DH has agreed to use DS shows he is committed to being a dad but it's completely normal if he's feeling apprehensive about it all. 
XXX


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## silverbell

Hey all.

Firstly, I just want to say how pleased I am to come onto this thread after such a long time and see so many lovely ladies getting their BFPs :thumbup: Fabulous news and I hope it's just the start of many.

I used to come on here, as DH has azoospermia (Klinefelter's and his mTESE showed zero sperm were being produced). We used donor sperm, then donor eggs and donor sperm, got pregnant and miscarried and eventually found out I had a large womb abnormality.

We went through the adoption process and for the past 10 weeks we've been a family of 3 to a really gorgeous little girl, who was just 8 months old when she came to us. 

We feel very grateful and lucky (though I have to say we've been so busy and our lives so different we don't really have the time to think much about it often!) I just wanted to say that if azoospermia leaves you without that longed for baby, there are always other options if you're happy to accept them (I realise adoption isn't for everyone).

I just wish we'd known about the struggles we'd face at the start so we could have skipped the 12 fertility treatments and our heartbreaking miscarriage, but you ladies - more than others - are only too aware that life isn't always that easy.

I'm hoping that many, many more of you get your longed for BFP in 2017 (with extra special wishes for my friend Deafgal :kiss:)


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## MoBaby

Silverbell! That is awesome!! Adoption is a wonderful thing!

If you don't mind me asking- what abnormality do you have? I have a unicornuate uterus. I miscarried 4 times and had 4 chemicals. The drs thought due to the blood supply but all tests were always normal.


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## Rainbow123

That's lovely news Silverbell! Congratulations! XXXXX


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## bubumaci

Oh, Silverbell, what fabulous news! Congratulations! <3


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## Chickensoup85

That's wonderful news Silverbell, congratulations. 

MsRipple, I'm so pleased to hear everything went well with your scan and good luck with your next one. I'm sure your husband will come around soon. I think it's especially difficult for them to process because they can't see or feel anything. 

I had my scan last Friday; all looked good. We saw the heartbeat and the baby measured 6mm, which is apparently bang on for 6 weeks. I still can't shake this feeling of apprehension though. My son was 8mm at the same time and I was sick as a dog by now. I know every pregnancy is different so hoping that's it. Luckily, I get to have another scan at 8 weeks because my ovaries are still so enlarged. If everything has progressed as it should have by then, I'll start to relax.

How many weeks are you now Rainbow? When's your next scan?


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## snd80

SB-I am over the moon for you love!!! :cloud9:

My thoughts and prayers are forever with those still struggling and I do still follow along from the sidelines as time permits. Much love to everyone and never give up!!! SB is a perfect example in this! :flower:


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## Rainbow123

That's great news Chickensoup! So happy to hear it went well! It was after my 8 week scan that I started to relax. I am still feeling a bit nervous but minimal compared to before! I'm now 10 weeks (I will be 11 weeks on Friday) so edging ever closer to that 12 week hurdle. I'm just waiting to hear when my next scan will be. I've been to see the midwife at my GP surgery and they've referred me to obstetrics, who I will go and see for my 'booking in' appointment. At this appointment they will give me a date for my next scan which should be at around 12 weeks but can be anywhere up until 15 weeks (so my midwife told me - argh!). 
XXX


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## MsRipple

Silverbelle - we've just met (online), but so lovely to hear such a great outcome!

Chicken and Rainbow- glad to hear that everything is going smoothly! What's next for you guys?

I am now 6w 3d (but who's counting? ;) _ Going in for an ultrasound at 7w 1d. I've started to feel more nausea - mostly when I wake up and before bed - and a fair amount of lightheaded/dizziness throughout the day. 

I broke down to dh last weekend about how scared I was that something would go wrong. I am mostly staying positive since then but of course I am still anxious. I am so hoping we see or hear a heartbeat next week.


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## Rainbow123

Those first few weeks are so tough with all the worries they bring. Only four more days until your scan!
I will be finding out the date of my next scan on Tuesday, when I go for an appointment at the hospital. Hoping it won't be too long that I have to wait. 
Good luck for your scan on Thursday (hope I've worked that out right!).
XXX


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## silverbell

Thank you all for your lovely words :flower:

---



MoBaby said:


> Silverbell! That is awesome!! Adoption is a wonderful thing!
> 
> If you don't mind me asking- what abnormality do you have? I have a unicornuate uterus. I miscarried 4 times and had 4 chemicals. The drs thought due to the blood supply but all tests were always normal.

Of course I don't mind you asking. I was a bit of an anomoly in that it wasn't precisely one thing or the other but the Gynaecologist described it as a very broad congenital defect across the top of my womb. He said it wasn't something he could pin a name to but was a cross between a broad septum and a bicornate uterus. He said that the abnormality was so broad he did not believe there is anything that can be done but would confer with a fertility colleague. After this discussion he came back to me to say that I have a broad fundus with tubular ostia and he's looked at the literature and I fall between definitions but most seem to fit a possible 'broad type 2a septum'. He said he wanted to scan me again (transvaginal) to see whether surgery was an option.

At this point I declined any further intervention. Enough was enough.

I should also point out that this abnormality wasn't picked up on the HSG I had 1 year into TTC, which surprised my fertility consultant. He felt sure if it was so broad there would have been something visible on the HSG. I wish there had been! Would certainly have saved us a lot of time, money, tears and trouble.

I hope that's helpful and I'm so very sorry to hear about your losses :hugs:


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## MsRipple

Hi ladies, what's going on? 

chicken/rainbow- how are you guys feeling?

deafgal- thinking of you and hoping you are having a great start to your year

Had an ultrasound and saw the baby's heartbeat! Couldn't hear it but it measured at 141 bpm and doctor said everything looked good and released us to the OB. Which then made me realize I had to scramble to find an OB (previously they said I would not be released til 9-10 weeks). 8 weeks tomorrow with my first OB apt next week.


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## Rainbow123

Aww that's lovely MsRipple! Seeing that little heartbeat is so magical! 

I'm now 12w5d! I went in to the hospital last Tuesday to 'book in', so really just to take my blood pressure, check my urine and take a bunch of details. As we were chatting I just mentioned to the midwife that my symptoms seemed to be subsiding and was that ok (just looking for reassurance after my last pregnancy ending how it did). She very kindly went and had a word with the ladies in ultrasound and they did my 12 week scan then and there! I didn't actually realise that it was going to be classed as my 12 week scan as DH wasn't there, which was a shame, but I saw our gorgeous little baby which was AMAZING! He/she measured 12w2d which was interesting as I was only 11w4d (which is based on the day I know I ovulated due to having the trigger shot) which makes my due date 30th July. I'm still counting the weeks based on when I had my IUI though! I won't have any appointments now until I'm 16weeks which worries me slightly. I just wish I could have my own ultrasound machine at home so I could check up on my little miracle every day!

Sending you all lots of love.
XXXXX


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## Chickensoup85

Hi ladies,

So pleased to hear you've both had good scans! Brilliant news. How are you both feeling?

Rainbow, that's so nice that they scanned you for your peace of mind. You're UK based aren't you? Where about are you?

MsRipple, they must be really happy with how things are going to have released you early! How do you find an OB? Is it not just based on where you live? Things seems to vary so much from country to country.

I had my 8 week scan last week; we saw the heartbeat and even saw the baby wiggling around, which I didn't expect (amazing!). The nurse was happy and discharged me to normal NHS care. I have my first midwife appointment next week.

I said if all went well, I'd feel ok. But typically, I haven't relaxed. Baby was measuring 8w1d at 8w4d, which they said absolutely is not a problem and they weren't worried at all, but of course I am. Also, funny you saying about symptoms subsiding Rainbow, I have started to feel a lot better (nausea wise) this week but I'm only 9 weeks. After reading this is the week it should peak, I can't help but wonder... Anyway, I must find a way to chill out or I'll drive myself mad! What will be will be and I can't do anything to change it.

Totally agree with the idea of an at home ultrasound machine. Surely there should be an app for that by now; it is 2017!


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## Hopeful Cat

Such fantastic beautiful news on this thread! Congratulations on all the BFPs &#128522;


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## deafgal01

Ms Ripple - you're sweet to think of me. So far, I've finished one baby blanket (blue and white one) for my cousin's summer baby boy Lucas this year. I've got a pink and purple one nearly done (just need the edging complete). Now working on a new colorful blanket that might be suited for California climate I think as it's thinner than the other two I made. I think the purple and pink one will go to my classmate in Utah, and the current colorful one for the one in California. Haven't started trying with donor again yet (been on break since last May I believe from that).

Today's honestly going to be bittersweet. Going to a baby shower for my husband's stepsister who is expecting a spring baby. He had the heart to order her baby a special bear and I'm sad that our baby won't be the first one he can order it for, but I love the idea that he demands every baby needs a teddy bear. Not just any teddy bear, but a specific american company - Vermont (I think it's where the company is). Supposedly if anything happens to bear and it needs hospital to be fixed/repaired, there's a lifetime warranty for that. I didn't make her baby a blanket as I know there's several ladies in her family who are capable of making that better than me.

Going to a baby shower (for a family member) is big, considering my circumstances. I haven't done that in years - not since going to my cousin's a few years ago - maybe 3 to 5 years for me. I'm expecting to have some kind of mental good cry out tonite maybe. I don't know. Or I'll just drink some extra wine tonight. We'll see what my mood is like.

At least I'm enjoying the crafting part - I do enjoy and find it relaxing to just knit or crochet when I have time to.


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## Hopeful Cat

Hi deafgal, i hope the babyshower was ok xx


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## deafgal01

It wasn't so bad. It was a tea party type of baby shower. No games. Just drinking tea and eating light meal and dessert. Then stepsis in law opens her gifts. The gifts were pretty cool to see - some were obviously homemade (I didn't make anything for her, knowing she'd have plenty of ladies in her family to do that). I texted Z to tell him when our gift was being opened. I think it was slightly harder for him than me - he said he actually was tearing up at the photos and my text about her reaction to the bear gift.

Last night my mood was just fine - I saw my family after the party and I got my girl scout cookies that I ordered from my niece, so maybe that helped - I wasn't obsessing or thinking much after that party about anything related to baby so I drank a glass of wine and really enjoyed trying out the new recipe Z found for the spaghetti sauce.

Thanks for checking on me Hopeful Cat.


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## Rainbow123

Deafgal - I'm glad the baby shower wasn't as hard as you were expecting. I had to make so many excuses for avoiding such occasions before I got pregnant, i just couldn't do it. I hope 2017 is your year.

Chickensoup - I live in the Isle of Man.  
How lovely that you saw the heartbeat and a wiggly baby! It is so magical seeing them move. Have you got a date for your booking in appointment?
I know exactly what you mean when you say you thought you would feel more relaxed. Since my 12 week scan I have been feeling a little bit more relaxed but not as much as I'd hoped. I've even been convincing myself over the last 24 hours that something might have gone wrong (I'm now 14 weeks so logically I know I should stop worrying). 
We had the same with baby measuring smaller than expected at our 9 week scan (which worried me) but then at 12 week scan he/she was measuring bigger (which also worried me!). 
Have you had any more pregnancy symptoms? Mine were a bit famine or feast for the whole of the first trimester and I was so relieved when I had them. 

MsRipple - How are you doing?

XXXXXXXXXX


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## Chickensoup85

Deafgal, I think you are so strong to be able to attend baby showers and pour your time and energy into making gifts. I have declined several baby showers, even recently. I think about you often and have everything crossed that this is your year.

Rainbow, I had my booking appointment this week. All was fine. I went over my worried with the midwife and she basically said that, yes, something could go wrong but there is no reason to believe that it will and so to stop worrying. Easier said than done! Symptoms come and go; I'm pleased when they are there because it's reassuring. 

It's going to be hard to stop worrying, even though you are past the first trimester but, chances are, everything is ok. It's great that baby caught up size wise! Hopefully you'll begin to feel some movement soon and that will be reassuring. 

Hope all is well with you, MsRipple!


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## MsRipple

Deafgal, I'm glad the shower was ok for you. You have a lot of emotional stamina!

Rainbow and Chicken- glad everything is going well with your scans!

I met with the OB affiliated with the hospital where we did fertility treatments. Saw the baby again - measuring on target at 9w1d and could hear the heart beat. First time he measured hb came in at 139 bpm, then measured again at 169bpm. He said it can vary but both are good, not to worry. But yeah, I worried about the 139 bpm. Am going to meet with a second OB with a smaller practice and see what the difference would be between both. Both are good - one would just be a big hospital practice that is well-regarded, but you see whomever you want leading up to delivery and then are delivered by whoever happens to be on call. For better and worse, it's a big university teaching hospital. The smaller practice seems more personal to me.

Chicken I am with you, I have been worried throughout. Sometimes more, sometimes less.


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## deafgal01

I think my emotional state has come a long way since day one of finding out the issue.

Not to say that I don't have bad days anymore, I still do have them, but they are far and few in between. For example, last Nov. I think, maybe it was Oct. I saw my stepsis in law for the first time since she made her announcement, I was in tears on the way home. So I do have my bad days, just not as often now. The weird thing is I didn't have the same reaction when I finally saw my cousin for the first time as pregnant at Christmas.

I'm excited to have two new babies join the family this year nevertheless. We need babies to spoil and love. I joke that the best part of my job (with the high school teens and the deaf toddlers/babies) is that I get to give the kids back at end of day (or hour) and I don't spend so much money on their necessities. I hear my coworkers tell tales about their children during lunch - what they've done now, etc. Makes me smile in a small way knowing I don't have to deal with that, yet (or ever - not sure which one of the two it will be).


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## Chickensoup85

Hi Ladies, 

Just wondering how everyone is getting on?


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## deafgal01

Doing fine here - trying again with home insemination with donor. So far nothing.

My niece has been born. I have yet to meet her but hoping to soon (before Easter for sure). She's gorgeous from the pics I've seen. My cousin's halfway through her pregnancy by now - she's not had it easy though.

How's everyone else doing?


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## Rainbow123

Keeping my fingers tightly crossed for you Deafgal. XXX

Doing well here! I have my 20 week scan tomorrow. I've been working myself up a little about it so I'm going to be so happy this time tomorrow when it's done. We're hoping to find out if we're having a boy or a girl so will keep you ladies posted!

How's everything going with you Chickensoup? 

XXX


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## Mikihob

Rainbow how was your 20 week scan yesterday? What's the gender of your sweet little?


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## Rainbow123

It went really well! Everything looked so perfect! My son came along with us for this scan which was awesome as he's loving the idea of there being a baby in my tummy. I'm getting lots of tummy strokes, kisses and cuddles, it's so cute! He's only just turned 2 so obviously he can't completely understand but he's got some photographs of the baby from the scan and can see the face really clearly so they're nice for him to look at. He's taking them in to nursery to share tomorrow! :-D 
We found out that we're having another little boy! So excited! I'm going to be so outnumbered haha! I can't wait to meet him now. I think I'm finally able to start really enjoying my pregnancy now that we've had this scan - yippee! 
XXX


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## Mikihob

Rainbow I am so glad. How cute that your DS loves kissing and cuddling your belly. How sweet is that. Congrats on another boy. It's so cute that he will have a brother to roll around and be rough and tumble with him. 

I am so, so happy for you. Yay for a healthy boy!


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## Hopeful Cat

Yay congrats rainbow! Great to hear all is going well.

Fingers r crossed for you deafgal &#128522;


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## deafgal01

This one didn't take - I think cuz the timing was rather late. I hope to get it this time around. That reminds me, I need to contact my donor.

Rainbow - yay for another boy! they're so much fun!


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## MoBaby

Rainbow that's exciting! 
Deafgal sorry it didn't take :(


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## Chickensoup85

Deafgal, sorry to hear this one didn't take. I have everything crossed for you for the next one.

Rainbow, that's great that everything is going so well and congratulations on another little boy! It's so nice your little boy will have a brother to grow up with. It sounds like he's so excited.

All ok so far this end. Still have 3 weeks to go until my 20 week scan but have begun to feel some movement so that's reassuring (and so exciting!).


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## SunUp

Anyone still around? Is there a new thread or has no one really posted in months? Hope everyone is doing well :D


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## MoBaby

I'm here... no more babies so nothing to post about. Although I'd love to have one more just isn't happening. Too expensive and we have 2 healthy babies from all this so I feel blessed :)


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## bubumaci

I'm still reading... would love to have another, but just can't go through it all again...


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## deafgal01

I still check in once in a blue moon. No luck but then again I've put it on hold over the summer so i could really enjoy my wine, and work at losing some weight (get healthier overall).

Been busy. How's everyone?


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## Hopeful Cat

Im still here now and again. Suffering morning sickness so been absent for a while just trying to cope &#128533;


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## SunUp

Hi everyone! Glad to see there are a few people around. We are doing one more cycle now and we are done no matter the outcome. Otherwise staying busy with our Littles. I am glad you're trying to enjoy your summer, DG! And Hopeful- huge congrats, fingers crossed the MS ends soon! Crazy to see there are almost 700 pages on this one thread! Thanks Deb for helping create an Azo support team that's around the world <3


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## Mikihob

I still scroll through and read too. You ladies are my rocks. 

I am currently working on TTC#2. Hoping for an IUI end of this week or early next week. :winkwink: 

Congrats Hopeful! MS is definitely no fun. I had with DS and it was dreadful. Hope it goes way soon so you can enjoy the new little growing.


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## snd80

Still pop in from time to time to check on everyone here! My twins will be 3 tomorrow!!! So hard to believe its been 3 years! Hope everyone is doing well! So many of you were my rock as well through it all!!! Hugs!!!


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## SunUp

SND!!!!!! Give the twins big hugs from me :)


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## MJ73

Hi lovelies! It's been a while. How is everyone? You girls were my rock while ttc. How are you Deafgal? SND; the twins cannot be 3!?! How are you? SunUp, how are you doing hon? I've been following your diary still. Are you ok? Sending hugs to all. Mitchy is now 4 & a half. Xxx


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## deafgal01

I can't believe all your babies are now 3 and 4.. My goodness, where has time gone?

I'm doing well these days - I bounce between wanting kids still and then there are days I'm grateful I never became a mom. I like my independence and I don't have to spend money on kids (so instead it goes to my hobbies and vacations). I'm blessed to have a cousin's baby to love on and my brother's expecting in December so lots of babies to pick up in the family around holiday times.


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## snd80

I've been good. Just busy! But I wouldn't change it for the world!! How is everyone else doing? 

Here's a pict of my little turkeys. (Hope it doesn't offend anyone :hugs:)

Hugs and love to all!!! :flower:
 



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## Mikihob

They are so stinkin cute!! :thumbup:


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## deafgal01

I'm not ok, but I will be eventually. Lost a friend - horrible tragic accident. She died of head injury that happened while the dance team was practicing Thursday after school. This teacher/coach is a dear friend that I like to talk with. Idk how her family is coping (she has two kids- one year old and a five, maybe six years old daughters).

Other than that, life's just dandy. It goes by. My friend that I went to visit today suggested I think about fostering for real (like foster to adopt) so I guess that's a sign for me to explore my options within that.


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## bubumaci

Oh, Deafgal, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend! How tragic :( :(

It sounds like an interesting option, if you're open to it! <3


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## SunUp

So sorry DG!

I agree with Bubu - such a good option - if it&#8217;s right for you <3


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## deafgal01

I probably will go that route, but for now I'm just enjoying the way my life is right now - I don't have to worry about any sitter or what a kid needs (other than the students I work with).

Probably in a year or so, I'll start that foster/adoption process if Z and I agree to it.


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## Pink Lolly

Hi ladies,

It's been a long time since I posted on here....DH was diagnosed with azoo in 2010, I wanted to update you all as I know I loved hearing success stories.


Our first miracle baby boy was born in 2012 and at the end of last year we decided to try for :baby: #2. We had our first iui on 16th Feb and have just got a :bfp:

Sending lots of love to all of you currently on this journey, you will come out the other side xxx


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## deafgal01

That's awesome Pink!


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## bubumaci

Congratulations! :wohoo:


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## Hopeful Cat

Congrats Pink! :)


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## mimi4

Awesome, congrats!


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## Vegas1211

Hi Pink Lolly,

My hubby was dx with azoospermia a couple weeks ago and I am just coming to terms with this. I have read every page of this thread over the past couple of weeks and am starting to feel like donor sperm would be the way to go. The mTESE just seems like it works so rarely. Anyway, do you mind me asking how old you were for your first dIUI? I am 32 going on 33 and worried about my age. So far, I have tested ok and my AFC showed 15 follicles on each ovary. Thanks for your help.


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## Pink Lolly

Hi Vegas, I'm sorry you've had this devastating news :hugs:

My DH had a PESE/TESE and they found some sperm but also discovered that his sperm died before it matured so donor was the only option for us. I had my first DIUI when I was 29, i have always had medicated cycles, although this is purely to maximise chances with timings etc as I don't have any fertility issues. When TTC our first baby, they were cautious with the drugs and I only had 1 follicle both times. Second cycle worked and we got our bfp that gave us our son!

This time I am 34 (35 this year). I had a medicated cycle again, slightly higher dose and had 3 follicles and got a bfp the first try! I had also been worried about my age but the consultant was never concerned and actually I got pregnant quicker this time despite being older......

I hope that helps, anything else please just ask xxx


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## bubumaci

Vegas - I don't think you need to jump to the conclusion of needing donor sperm, despite your diagnosis. it think it would be important to see, can they get any sperm at all and if so, what the quality would be.
Azoo is also our diagnosis and with a 6 week course of Tamoxifen, we actually got the sperm that brought us our baby boy (several vials were frozen - and each time I had an egg retrieval, they were able to get enough live sperm from DH to fertilise - however these tries never resulted in pregnancy). We went for the mTESE and while I was prepped for the surgery, they found there was nothing they could use from the mTESE and ended up thawing three vials of sperm ... and that is were our baby boy came from.

I think it is worth seeing what type of Azoospermia your partner has. If it is due to a blockage (which can mean, that healthy sperm is obtainable from his testicles) or non-blockage (which was our case, we have no explanation for my husband's diagnosis) - even there, though, miracles can happen!

Fingers crossed for you! :)


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## Vegas1211

Pink Lolly said:


> Hi Vegas, I'm sorry you've had this devastating news :hugs:
> 
> My DH had a PESE/TESE and they found some sperm but also discovered that his sperm died before it matured so donor was the only option for us. I had my first DIUI when I was 29, i have always had medicated cycles, although this is purely to maximise chances with timings etc as I don't have any fertility issues. When TTC our first baby, they were cautious with the drugs and I only had 1 follicle both times. Second cycle worked and we got our bfp that gave us our son!
> 
> This time I am 34 (35 this year). I had a medicated cycle again, slightly higher dose and had 3 follicles and got a bfp the first try! I had also been worried about my age but the consultant was never concerned and actually I got pregnant quicker this time despite being older......
> 
> I hope that helps, anything else please just ask xxx

Thank you. This makes me feel like it is going to be possible. I just hope that my husband will be ok. I am so sad for him. Such a random thing that we totally never expected. He is a total guys guy so I think its definitely hard to wrap his mind around...


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## Vegas1211

Thank you for your story! My hubby most likely has non obstructive due to his low T and high FSH. We have an appt next week with the urologist so will find out more than. I&#8217;m sure he will test genetics which is an important first step. I know that finding sperm is a possibility but with most doctors saying a live birth results from this only 20% of the time, I don&#8217;t like the odds we are facing. I will leave it up to my husband as to whether he wants to go through the sperm extraction procedures and am happy to go through IVF if that&#8217;s what he desires. After the tamoxifen, did they find sperm with a biopsy from your husband?


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## bubumaci

You're welcome (you can read up on all of it in my pregnancy journal) :)
Actually, no! It was from a normal spermiogramme!! It really was amazing.


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## swimmyj1

hey gals wondering if i can join the thread?

My husband doesn't have azoospermia however we have genetically had multiple SA tested in the last 4 months and very very few come back genetically normal (I can't remember the number off hand). Our doc's can't give us answers yet as to what changed between having our DD to now but we are leaning in the way of a donor with IUI. Can someone give me any advice on successes (how many cycles it took, how many vials at a time should i buy, meds or no meds?, deciding factors/characteristics on picking a donor?)


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## snd80

Something in my heart told me to come "visit" this thread today... don't know if anyone is still around, but if so, thinking of you all and hope everyone is doing well!!! :hi:


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## deafgal01

I'm not on as much these days as I keep so busy with my dancing and work. I'm also in therapy - apparently I have unresolved trauma from when I was a kid (so I have abandonment issues to work through). Doing alright over here. how about you, snd80?


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## snd80

God bless you DG! Sometimes life's curveballs aren't so kind. Heck we already know that just from ttc! Cudos for seeking help tho.. BIG HUGS to you sister!!! Dancing! How exciting! Girl I am getting so old :jo: I can't sit down without dozing off anymore, let alone dancing!!! Enjoy your youth!!! =D&gt;

We are all doing well, ty for asking! Twins are creeping up on 8! :shock: 8!!! Finishing up 1st grade. Time really does fly by! 

I sure do miss the old gang around here! SO much support in my darkest of times... true God sents to help me through it all! Too bad we couldn't all have a real life reunion! :hugs2:


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## ClarkVamasa

Thanks for popping by Jo. I've added your appt to the list.


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