# Extended RF - New Q pg. 3



## Caitie44

I felt this forum was the best option for this sort of discussion, so please forgive me if this fits somewhere better. Since I had found out I was pregnant, I've been researching the benefits of rear facing and decided that was what I wanted to do. At the time, DF was on board. Now that DD is past a year old, he wants to forward face and says that rear facing past 25 pounds is too dangerous.

The car seat we have rear faces up to 40 lbs, and I picked it for that reason specifically. I've shown him the website which states this. I've shown him various websites that state it's safe to rear face. He still says it's not true. Now today, we planned on riding with his mom to his grandparent's for Christmas Eve, and I started to install the car seat rear facing after getting confirmation from DF. His mom comes racing out of the house saying how it's unsafe and she'd be happy to have her police officer friends tell me how unsafe it is. I'm livid.

For one, I've done my research... I'm not stupid. I wouldn't do something I thought would harm my child. So my question is this... What are your experiences with rear facing past 25lbs / 12 months? What are some ways to prove my point? Should I go talk to a pediatrician? Police officer? Fire fighter? I'm at a loss. It's like its me vs everyone else and I'm over it.


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## misspriss

I have showed skeptics crash test videos on youtube. It is HARD to argue with the physics. When you see that little dummy that represents your child, when you see that neck snap forward FF, there is no argument. 

There are stories of children who were injured FF promoting ERF on youtube, with their hospital stories and stuff. Very moving. First hand accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sssIsceKd6U

Very sad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8gU9zzCGA8


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## Caitie44

I didn't even think of videos. I'll check some out when we get home, we're on the road currently. It makes me sick; but I don't have my own car just yet, so there really isn't a whole lot I can do. I feel awful.


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## Caitie44

Oh! I didn't see you linked videos. Thank you.


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## misspriss

Caitie44 said:


> Oh! I didn't see you linked videos. Thank you.

You didn't miss them, I went back and added them after I posted. I didn't know they would show up like that, I just thought I was posting links.

It is VERY HARD to argue against the laws of physics. Having a visual should really show your family what is really safe and what is not.

If they still argue, then don't ride with them. I would never put my son FF just to satisfy someone else, I firmly intend to keep him RF until he grows out of his next seat, a Clek, at 50lbs (or however many inches). If I had a large child, I'd order a seat from Sweden before I'd FF them early. I believe in it that much.


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## Tulip

Tell your family that in Sweden they RF to 4 years old and child Road deaths are very very low! It is FIVE TIMES safer for a toddler to RF than FF. i'm not in the states so don't know where this insistence that RF is dangerous comes from :-/

In Europe we are bringing in new regs to keep babies RF until at least 15months. My eldest only turned ff at 3.5 years x


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## Caitie44

This is what frustrates me! I've shown countless facts, and they still pass it off like it's some crackpot theory and not *proven*. I really don't know what else to do to show them, besides going to talk to a firefighter or police officer. However, I'm not sure if I'd be allowed to just waltz in to discuss car seat safety, kwim? I suppose I could always call the station and ask... I think I'm going to make an appointment with DD's pediatrician and discuss it with him.


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## misspriss

I got a 9 month paper, at all wellness checks they have a standard "what to expect" sheet, it talked about turning your child FF soon! I wouldn't trust my ped for that. I almost called up the office and gave them a piece of my mind. I should have...maybe I will...


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## BlueWater

I've watched the first video, and I'm shocked how much a baby moves FF in an accident. It's crazy that ERF isn't promoted more.


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## SarahBear

Maybe they think it's dangerous because some carseats aren't designed for it? If you're above the limit, it's obviously unsafe. We just turned Violet forward facing at 2 and I was disappointed that we couldn't do it longer, but she was reaching the upper height limit for rear facing. If they won't listen to what you've shown them already, then they probably won't listen to anything. It's pretty obvious when you think about why rear facing is safer.


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## bdb84

https://csftl.org/why-rear-facing-the-science-junkies-guide/

https://csftl.org/rear-facing-car-seat-myths-busted/


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## JenX

Our pediatrician said we should rear-face until at least two. She tends to go by the recommendations of the AAP- the American Academy Of Pediatrics. Would that help sway them? 

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the.../AAP-Updates-Recommendation-on-Car-Seats.aspx

We have a 20 month old still rear facing, I want to keep her that way as long as I can.


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## Caitie44

DF has turned the car seat RF again, but i can't tell if he did it because he truly believes its safer or just to stop my ranting and raving. I still plan on educating him about it. As for MIL, not sure if she'll ever believe me. So from now on we simply won't ride with her unless she goes by our rules. End of story.

Our seat is confusing though. I may just have to call the manufacturing company and ask about it... But on the site and info on the sheet at Babies R Us, it states it rear faces up to 40lbs - yet on the side of the seat it says it's only safe in the RF position for infants up to 22lbs. Anyone know why that might be?


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## Caitie44

Here is the seat we have...

https://m.toysrus.com/skava/static/...entPage=family&domain=https://www.toysrus.com


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## misspriss

Caitie44 said:


> DF has turned the car seat RF again, but i can't tell if he did it because he truly believes its safer or just to stop my ranting and raving. I still plan on educating him about it. As for MIL, not sure if she'll ever believe me. So from now on we simply won't ride with her unless she goes by our rules. End of story.
> 
> Our seat is confusing though. I may just have to call the manufacturing company and ask about it... But on the site and info on the sheet at Babies R Us, it states it rear faces up to 40lbs - yet on the side of the seat it says it's only safe in the RF position for infants up to 22lbs. Anyone know why that might be?

What seat is it?

I'd check the manual. Mine says on the side _MUST_ rear face to 22lbs, but it can rear face UP TO 40lbs. 22lbs is REALLY low for a max on an American seat. I am thinking perhaps it is the minimum?


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## Caitie44

misspriss said:


> Caitie44 said:
> 
> 
> DF has turned the car seat RF again, but i can't tell if he did it because he truly believes its safer or just to stop my ranting and raving. I still plan on educating him about it. As for MIL, not sure if she'll ever believe me. So from now on we simply won't ride with her unless she goes by our rules. End of story.
> 
> Our seat is confusing though. I may just have to call the manufacturing company and ask about it... But on the site and info on the sheet at Babies R Us, it states it rear faces up to 40lbs - yet on the side of the seat it says it's only safe in the RF position for infants up to 22lbs. Anyone know why that might be?
> 
> What seat is it?
> 
> I'd check the manual. Mine says on the side _MUST_ rear face to 22lbs, but it can rear face UP TO 40lbs. 22lbs is REALLY low for a max on an American seat. I am thinking perhaps it is the minimum?Click to expand...

I'll have to find it, but on the side of the car seat there's a sticker that talks about the three positions the car seat can be in - and says "Use in the rear facing position only with infants up to 22 lbs or serious death and injury can occur." Yet on everything else, it says 40 lbs. I'm looking for the manual now. I was thinking it was really low too.


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## Tasha

Yeah that reads as a minimum weight they must be to turn to me x


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## JenX

Caitie44 said:


> misspriss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caitie44 said:
> 
> 
> DF has turned the car seat RF again, but i can't tell if he did it because he truly believes its safer or just to stop my ranting and raving. I still plan on educating him about it. As for MIL, not sure if she'll ever believe me. So from now on we simply won't ride with her unless she goes by our rules. End of story.
> 
> Our seat is confusing though. I may just have to call the manufacturing company and ask about it... But on the site and info on the sheet at Babies R Us, it states it rear faces up to 40lbs - yet on the side of the seat it says it's only safe in the RF position for infants up to 22lbs. Anyone know why that might be?
> 
> What seat is it?
> 
> I'd check the manual. Mine says on the side _MUST_ rear face to 22lbs, but it can rear face UP TO 40lbs. 22lbs is REALLY low for a max on an American seat. I am thinking perhaps it is the minimum?Click to expand...
> 
> I'll have to find it, but on the side of the car seat there's a sticker that talks about the three positions the car seat can be in - and says "Use in the rear facing position only with infants up to 22 lbs or serious death and injury can occur." Yet on everything else, it says 40 lbs. I'm looking for the manual now. I was thinking it was really low too.Click to expand...

Yes, that is saying the absolute minimum weight they can be turned around is 22 lbs, not the maximum. Maximum would be 40 lbs or whatever the manual states. They could have worded it a little more clearly, though.


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## fieryphoenix

Caitie44 said:


> misspriss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caitie44 said:
> 
> 
> DF has turned the car seat RF again, but i can't tell if he did it because he truly believes its safer or just to stop my ranting and raving. I still plan on educating him about it. As for MIL, not sure if she'll ever believe me. So from now on we simply won't ride with her unless she goes by our rules. End of story.
> 
> Our seat is confusing though. I may just have to call the manufacturing company and ask about it... But on the site and info on the sheet at Babies R Us, it states it rear faces up to 40lbs - yet on the side of the seat it says it's only safe in the RF position for infants up to 22lbs. Anyone know why that might be?
> 
> What seat is it?
> 
> I'd check the manual. Mine says on the side _MUST_ rear face to 22lbs, but it can rear face UP TO 40lbs. 22lbs is REALLY low for a max on an American seat. I am thinking perhaps it is the minimum?Click to expand...
> 
> I'll have to find it, but on the side of the car seat there's a sticker that talks about the three positions the car seat can be in - and says "Use in the rear facing position only with infants up to 22 lbs or serious death and injury can occur." Yet on everything else, it says 40 lbs. I'm looking for the manual now. I was thinking it was really low too.Click to expand...

I agree with the pp, its telling you to keep them rear facing until at least 22pounds, just out of curiosity, what are the three positions? Rear facing, forward facing and... I'm drawing a blank lol


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## MommyJogger

Mine says that, too. It means that _while _they're under 22lbs, it's _only _safe to rf and not safe at all to ff. It's terrible wording and ubiquitous with that brand of seat. You could call the manufacturer and ask their tech to speak of the safety of rf vs ff to your mil. That's what I did with my relative in SC on our Christmas "vacation"(where rf past 1 is still illegal) and the Evenflo tech (not even sure she was cpst, but willing to make herself sound like a professional for the phone call, lol) was great with her.


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## Caitie44

Thank you ladies! That was super confusing for me, glad you all cleared it up. I'll definitely be calling the manufacturing company tomorrow first thing, and speaking with a representative about it. I mean, if I'm reading it one way, I'm sure there's plenty of other parents and grandparents that think it means to turn it around at 22 pounds! And how dangerous is that?? I really appreciate it!

DF is supporting me, now. We ended up speaking with his old teacher, who is a fire chief, who backed me up 100%. I guess when it came from a "pro" he realized it was legit. Whatever. As long as DD is rear facing, that's what I'm concerned about. And whoever disagrees with our choices will not be driving with my daughter in the vehicle. I've made it my hill to die on.


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## Caitie44

fieryphoenix said:


> Caitie44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> misspriss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caitie44 said:
> 
> 
> DF has turned the car seat RF again, but i can't tell if he did it because he truly believes its safer or just to stop my ranting and raving. I still plan on educating him about it. As for MIL, not sure if she'll ever believe me. So from now on we simply won't ride with her unless she goes by our rules. End of story.
> 
> Our seat is confusing though. I may just have to call the manufacturing company and ask about it... But on the site and info on the sheet at Babies R Us, it states it rear faces up to 40lbs - yet on the side of the seat it says it's only safe in the RF position for infants up to 22lbs. Anyone know why that might be?
> 
> What seat is it?
> 
> I'd check the manual. Mine says on the side _MUST_ rear face to 22lbs, but it can rear face UP TO 40lbs. 22lbs is REALLY low for a max on an American seat. I am thinking perhaps it is the minimum?Click to expand...
> 
> I'll have to find it, but on the side of the car seat there's a sticker that talks about the three positions the car seat can be in - and says "Use in the rear facing position only with infants up to 22 lbs or serious death and injury can occur." Yet on everything else, it says 40 lbs. I'm looking for the manual now. I was thinking it was really low too.Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with the pp, its telling you to keep them rear facing until at least 22pounds, just out of curiosity, what are the three positions? Rear facing, forward facing and... I'm drawing a blank lolClick to expand...

1 is rear facing, 2 is forward facing, and 3 is the booster seat! I wish they would make things clearer, as it took me awhile to figure it out myself, but that's what it is. :)


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## Vickie

My DD RF until she was 3.5 and my son is 2 and is still RF and will be for the foreseeable future. Both kids are in Radians so the weight for RF is very high (DD actually never did hit the weight on it--still hasn't! But we found it was to hard to install in small cars RF. At the time we didn't realize that we could buy something made by Radian to help with the incline or she would have stayed RF longer. We have it for DS which is why he won't be moved FF any time soon).

All my DH required was the statistics and he was completely on board with ERF. 

We are definitely the odd ones out (our 6.5 year old is still in a 5 point harness as she's still small enough to fit in her car seat just fine with it so I see no need to change to a booster just yet!) and most of our families just don't understand it (don't get me started on MIL and car seats and winter coats haha). But if anyone were to ever disobey our car seat rules (that are there for every good reasons!) they would never have one of my children in their car again.


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## Hangin_On_AGS

^ this sounds like our house... We have a radian just ordered a pacifica and a britax. My daughter started to get very uncomfortable rf in her britax which is why we ordered the pacifica. We will use the britax for the new baby. My husband is very pro rf and will make sure everyone keeps our kids rf as long as possible or until 4 years old and than harnessed until height and weight are surpassed. 

Op I'm glad your dh's friend backed you up. It is really hard to convince people of new information that is why it takes so long for new regulations to take effect.


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## Caitie44

DF has the mindset that because MIL has had 3 kids, she knows what she's talking about. He's been like this since DD was born. It's incredibly frustrating and we're going to be going to a counselor soon to hopefully get him off his mom's tit. Ahem.

Anyway! New question. I've just printed out quite a few pages of proven statistics and facts from various websites on RF vs FF. I plan on highlighting the especially important parts, and then taking them to the ILs with our rules about car seat safety, including wearing puffy coats in the seats! Do you think this is a good idea? I feel that if I give her the info head-on, she can't argue with me about it... And if she tried, I'd simply tell her that until she abides by our rules, DD and any future LOs will not be riding with them. Yay? Nay?


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## misspriss

Yay.


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## busytulip

Yay
They should definitely abide by your rules/wishes. Taking your research and presenting is a great idea, it's much harder to refute doing something with evidence showing it is what is best. Good Luck!


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## Caitie44

Thanks! When it comes to the ILs, I still get really nervous when thinking about confronting them about something. I'm still working on strengthening my spine when it comes to them. My family I have no problem being forceful about things! :haha: 

I'll probably post afterwards with what happened. :')


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## Hangin_On_AGS

Your daughter your rules. I hope it went well with the il's my parents are getting antsy about turning our dd because they swear she is froggy legging it and uncomfortable. Her legs barely bend. I know they will want to turn her at her second birthday but I'm going to stick to my guns and wait till she's 4. You want to turn her that's fine she doesn't have to ride with you. I would feel so guilty if I knew all this information and let them turn her and something happened.


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## redneckhippy

We just had our carseat checked by a technician and she was great. I'm not sure where in OH you live, but ours was through Akron Children's Community Outreach and she gave us so much information.

In America automobile accidents are one of (if not the) leading cause of death in young children. In Sweden, where they require rear-facing until age 4, in the entire country in the entire year of 2012, they had ONE death of a child under age 7 in an automobile accident. I mean, that's mindblowing. After I read that I was sold and so was my husband when I showed him.


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## Emz1982_in_uk

Hi Caitie,

I know you made this thread a while ago but just wanted to say that my son was 5 in December and he is still rear facing. He's never complained and nobody has ever questioned us, not that I'd care if they did. We love ERF.


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## Caitie44

Hi!! I still check this thread every now and then, so thanks for replying!

I ended up not having to talk to MIL at all. DF did it, telling her we spoke to our daughter's pediatrician and he said that as long as they're comfortable, it's of course safer to rear face after 22 pounds. When she tried to argue, he shut it down, and said if DD wasn't rear facing, she wouldn't be in the car. Yay! The thing that irks me is the way the pediatrician worded it. I understand extended rear facing is considered a new concept. However when I asked about it, he said it was fine to turn her around, and he doesn't recommend rear facing "when their knees are in their face and uncomfortable". I explained her car seat RFs up to 40lbs and he said that was great! But he wasn't all gungho for rear facing like I was expecting... Ah well.

The car seat we have was a Christmas gift for DD from my grandparents, who knew how important it was to me to ERF. I'm incredibly thankful for it, but I think once DD reaches 40lbs we'll be looking for another seat that lasts longer rear facing. If any of you US ladies have any recommendations, please let me know!


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## Caitie44

Emz1982_in_uk said:


> Hi Caitie,
> 
> I know you made this thread a while ago but just wanted to say that my son was 5 in December and he is still rear facing. He's never complained and nobody has ever questioned us, not that I'd care if they did. We love ERF.

That's amazing!! I'd love to rear face that long. Hopefully, as time goes on, DF begins to realize the longer she's facing the back, the safer it is. For now he's fine with it, but I think once she's past 2 it'll be the same battle again. :dohh:


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## misspriss

Clek foonf and fllo, 50lbs, as is Diono ranier and Pacifica.


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## Caitie44

I've heard great things about the Diono! Thanks!


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