# Saying hello, and advice post-failed IVF



## DevonRed

Hi everyone. 
Just joined the site - found out that my first cycle of IVF failed on Thursday and am, well, bereft. I think I thought IVF would be some miracle cure (how stupid, I know) so it's hit hard. Keep seeing pregnant women and babies everywhere and crying at stupid things (the opening scene of Happy Feet was the most ridiculous example yet!)

Of course, I will try again probably later this year.

Does anyone have advice on what diagnostic tests I should ask for before trying again? We've learned a lot about how my body responds over the last 6 weeks and the problem has been implantation. Don't want to have more good embryos transferred if there's something wrong with my endometrium. 

Wishing everyone lots of luck and good news.

About me:
Age: 39
Ttc 18 months
No male factor problems, no known female factors (yet)
Ivf#1 April/may: norethisterone, merional, cetrotide. Buserelin trigger due to ohss risk. 14 eggs retrieved, 10 fertilized. Major endometrial support (cyclogest, prontogest). 1x AA grade blastocyst transferred. 7 blasts frozen. Negative pregnancy test 5/17


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## noasaint

So sorry DR :cry: I'm 38 and can relate with thinking IVF is the cure for us. Did you do ICSI or AH? For implantation and due to age I am very, very surprised you only had a single transfer. At my RE I was told at my age we should do 3. We are also doing assisted hatching due to age, it's not even an option, they do it for anyone over 38.


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## danc1ingqueen

Hi Girls,

DevonRed& Nosaint,I was hoping for same miracle and pretty much left feeling bereft as well. Sorry to hear about your disappointments.

Im 37 with very low amh and DH is 33, mostly fine. Had a blastocyst transferred 10 days ago, we got 6 eggs, 3 fertilised but only one good enough to put in and that failed miserably :(
We did ICSI as the doctor felt due to lack of eggs numbers and potential lack of quality. I think i may also have an implantation issue as i thought i was pregnant last year twice and had very late periods.
Have you had your cardiolipin antibodies tested?...this can have a detremental affect on implantation and ability to carry. My levels fluctuate but i am going to speak to the doctor about it this week again.
Hope that suggestion may be of some help.
xx


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## aleja

hi ladies,
devonRed welcome to bnb, hopefully you will find the support and suggestions from the ladies very helpful during this very difficult time. 

Noasaint and Dancingqueen, hello again girls! 

Devon, am so sorry about your ivf failure. I don't think you are stupid to think it is a miracle cure. That is what we all hope after so many months or years of ttc. By the time IVF is on the cards we really do get very hopeful it will be the answer to our heartache. And for some ladies it does work first time of course. 

I had the same situation as you a few weeks ago. I am 34, ttc for 14 months and I had an almost perfect iCSI cycle -they transferred 1 great looking blastocyst and froze 4. But I had a big failure when my period came early. I was devastated that my cycle had come to an abrupt end. 
I also wonder if I have implantation issues or hormonal problems, etc but I haven't had a chance to ask my FS about it yet. I will find out this week but I suspect he won't really be able to exactly tell me what happened. I will let you know if he orders any diagnostic tests before having a frozen cycle.

The problem is that I guess iVF is not a perfect technology and does not offer a guaranteed success. A lot of it is luck of the draw. That is hard for us to accept because it is a very emotionally, physically and financially draining gamble!!!!!!

Dancingqueen, i haven't heard of those cardiolipin antibodies...what is that?

GL devon and I hope you recoup well for your next cycle. 7 frozen blasties is very impressive!! I am sure there is a baby or two in there:flower:


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## Springy

Hi Ladies - I'll jump in here too ... my first IVF in April ended in a BFN and I was totally devastated. 

I had, what my RE has said, was a PERFECT / TEXTBOOK cycle up to day 3 post retrieval. Between day 3 and day 5 only one of my embryos (I had 11 of them) went to blastocyst and it was only a 2AA. The rest on day 5 were morula's. We transferred the one blast and one morula on day 5 and cultured the remaining 7 one more day. On day 6 I had 4 more to freeze one 4AA, one 3AB and two 3BB. I have been told that this is indicative of an egg quality issue.

She said that we will do FET with our frozen ones but I have only a 30% chance of implantation and she also said that another fresh cycle may be totally different so to do another fresh cycle later in the year .... 

I like you ladies totally felt that IVF was going to "fix" our problem. My AMH was through the roof so we totally felt that our issue was fertilization - got the call the day after retrieval - boom 11 of 12 fertilized, better than expected fertilization. 

Many ladies on here tell me that they don't think its a quality issue as I did get 5 blasts in total and if they were rubbish none would have gone to blasts. When I started to ask immune questions / issues with implantation she brushed me off and essentially said it was "quality" not an issue of "implantation". Now that I have had a few days to think about this I'm a bit angry that I was brushed off so quickly and implantation was not looked at as a potential issue!

Are any of you ladies going to proceed with FET / another fresh cycle?


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## s08

I'd also like to join you ladies. I'm so sorry to hear you have all gone through what I am going through right now. Unfortunately, I don't have any answers...just lots of questions.

Like you all, I hoped IVF would be our miracle. And up until a couple days ago, it seemed like it was. I was getting really positive hpt's, but then the bleeding began. Brown at first, but then red at the clinic minutes before my beta yesterday...awesome. Results came back at 13.8, so this won't be viable. I have to go back tomorrow morning, just so they can make sure my hcg is on its way back down to 0. 

I have the same questions about what testing we should do before going forward. My embryo(s) obviously implanted, but it is like my body is rejecting them. 

Springy, what you said makes me concerned about my egg quality as well. I had somewhat similar results as you. Good fertilization, and things looked great until day 5. Ended up transfering an early blast and good morula, rather than the 5 s$#@y looking blasts I had. They cultured the remaining 5, but only one met their freeze criteria. I don't meet with my re for a follow-up for a few weeks, so I hope to know more then. Like you Aleja, I suspect I will not get a lot of answers and will just be told we are unlucky and to try again. 

My nurse said that if my hcg numbers go down to 0 before Tuesday, I could possibly start a medicated FET cycle right away. But that concerns me to start so soon. Has anyone ever heard about starting right after a failed fresh cycle? 

Sorry for this novel! But it does feel good to vent to others who have been/are where I am right now.


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## s08

One more thing (I just can't quit venting, I guess), but am I the only one who is most stressed over the financial aspect of this? I think I could handle the failure so much better emotionally if insurance covered any of this, you know?


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## Arimas

So sorry for your BFN, reality really sinks in and it feels like a death. All of a sudden you go from taking all of these pills, injections, etc and goin to the RE every other day and then it just stops. 

I hope that you take some time to gather yourself and know that you are not alone and we are all here for you. 

Take care


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## Springy

S08 - finances scare me tools this is all out of pocket for me .....

And I have to take this cycle off then I can do an FET. Mine is only a mildly medicated FET. I start estrogen on my next day 3 and then add progesterone in and then transfer. So it's really mild.

I have talked to a lot of people and they keep saying if they made it to blast my eggs can't be that bad and look at you your early blast / morula did implant so they can't have been bad quality eggs either! How many do you have frozen?


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## MoBaby

im sorry girl. im in a similar boat. thought cycle one woud be my little miracle; 2 perfect textbook embies according to doc; bfn. i thought since so many get bfp cycle 1 and im young with no problems it would work. cycle 2 i was like this has to; never imagined i would miscarry at 7 wks. now on to #3 and im scared to a point i cant explain. its good you have so many frosties; i have none. accupuncture is supossed to help. i went round 2 but cant afford it this round. a lot of times there is no answer as to why it failed and its hit or miss. all my test are fine genetically and hormonally etc as well as dh (except for very low count due o 2 testicular surgeries as a child which they cant fix). i feel very alone also; all my friends are pg as well as my sis and sis in law. my bf is 14 wks and several others. no one except my bf knows the ivf but no one understands this process exept you girls not even my bf.


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## noasaint

Oh, this is so heartbreaking. I'm scared of my first IVF cycle as I've agreed to only one ER. I don't mind doing FET but a fresh ER, only doing it once. I did NOT want to do IVF in the first place and DH knew this but he changed his mind about adoption. We have yet to see my egg quality and I just pray it's OK.

s08 - you are right about the financial aspect. I am extremely lucky in that my insurance is paying everything (except 20%) so we have pretty little out of pocket. When my injectables cycle failed I was really upset but I thought to myself I would've felt even worse had I paid $6000 for meds instead of the $300 we actually spent. If I didn't have this insurance I would've never agreed to IVF anyway. I'm hoping that when my cycle is over and I have a BFP that I have left over meds I can try to assist someone else that's paying out of pocket.


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## Springy

MoBaby said:


> im sorry girl. im in a similar boat. thought cycle one woud be my little miracle; 2 perfect textbook embies according to doc; bfn. i thought since so many get bfp cycle 1 and im young with no problems it would work. cycle 2 i was like this has to; never imagined i would miscarry at 7 wks. now on to #3 and im scared to a point i cant explain. its good you have so many frosties; i have none. accupuncture is supossed to help. i went round 2 but cant afford it this round. a lot of times there is no answer as to why it failed and its hit or miss. all my test are fine genetically and hormonally etc as well as dh (except for very low count due o 2 testicular surgeries as a child which they cant fix). i feel very alone also; all my friends are pg as well as my sis and sis in law. my bf is 14 wks and several others. no one except my bf knows the ivf but no one understands this process exept you girls not even my bf.

MoBaby you are NOT alone! There are lots of us here going through what you are. None of my IRL friends are dealing with infertility, in fact they all seem to be fertile myrtles and I'm dreading my one friend who just started trying this month announcing her month one BFP ..... but you have ALL of us here for support! I recognize you from a few other threads sending you loads and loads of positive energy and :hugs:


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## aleja

Noasaint, it must be hard hearing all these bfn stories but please remember everyone is different and lots of ladies do get pregnant first go . I can see why you want to do one Epu as Stim cycles are tough. Hope you get some frosties as back up but you may not need them anyway . 

Hello all other ladies ..please vent away ! As awful as this may sound (and i dont mean to offend anyone) but it feels almost relieving to hear I am not the only one who was completely heartbroken at the end of my cycle . 
Oh and the financial aspect is horrid. I can't even think about how much money we are spending on this right now as I would become depressed . It still makes me upset we have to pay for something others get to do for free. 

Springy, it's a shame your FS kind of shrugged you off about your concerns . I think doctors do see this as a numbers game sometimes despite what we think. 

I had my FS follow up appt and got to ask him all the questions I could think of. He did not recommend any diagnostic testing before my FET . He said everything in my Stim cycle was as good as possible but that implantation is still a bit of a mystery in IvF . He said to be classified as "implantation failure" (thus requiring further testing) it would take 2 full stims + FETs that all don't implant . He mentioned that sometimes the first "batch" of embryos might be poor quality so none will implant however on the 2nd Stim it might work straight away if the batch is good . 
Overall as expected I am none the wiser about why it didn't work. I am doing a natural FET next cycle. I wasnt allowed to go straight into a new FET chcle presumably because my hormones have to be back to normal agAin before starting . 

Ladies I am hoping you will post what your own FS say about testing , theories etc
And If nothing else , for support as like you are all saying , it's so hard seeing everyone else getting pregnant or with their babies or children . 

All the best x


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## Victory78

Hi Girls

I'm so sorry to read about all your stories and know how heartbreaking it all is, how lonely and angry it makes you feel, the worry about finances, the disappointment of the assumed miracle of IVF not working..... But we will get through this together and keep taking those next steps to starting our families! We can vent away here in the meantime!

I had a failed IVF this month when non of the 10 eggs fertilised. The RE cannot explain why as eggs/sperm looked normal/healthy, and I was responding in a text book way up until then. The outcome is that we will try ICSI in August.

I've got at least 10 pregnant friends at the moment, most with their second or third, and feel like I'm being left behind. I've been with my husband for 10 years (but only trying properly for 2 years) and know its wrong, but it feels unfair when friends jump ahead - meeting their partners later than us, getting married after us, but now have families already. I know people mean well when they say 'trying for 2 years is not long at all' or 'you're still young' (I'm 33) or 'its important to relax', but non of that means anything when we all want to start our families does it! When I go to a party and someone says 'do you have children?' and I say 'no' and they say 'lucky you - all that freedom' - it makes me so angry and I totally know they don't mean any harm and just trying to be friendly! Generally keep these wrong thoughts hidden and just try to carry on, but good to vent here! 

Keep positive everyone and keep trying - we will all get there eventually x


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## aleja

hi victory, that is very sad about your 10 eggs especially not being able to get an answer of why it didn't work. I think the icsi idea is a good one to get those embies fertilised.

it's so frustrating all the platitudes we hear whilst everyone else gets pregnant. Recently my good friend (new mother) said a similar one: "Just enjoy life while you can" while she fussed over her little girl. I was really upset with this one as it sounded very patronising . 
I think you are right that we will all get there in the end but I guess its hard when you don't know when it will happen.


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## Springy

Victory - I am so sorry to hear about your issue with none of the eggs fertilizing. My husband and I did 100% ICSI with all of our eggs as we were unexplained up to that point so I didn't want to chance no fertilization :hugs: I am sure with your next cycle you will see a difference when you have ICSI performed.

Aleja - I too am doing an FET with my next cycle. Ours are semi-natural .... I will be supplemented with estrogen and progesterone but that it is. And I am also having an endometrial biopsy done probably next week as there is some evidence that this helps with implantation. My RE did say the same thing as yours - that the second time around the eggs could be totally different so I'm hoping if it comes to that, that my eggs are rock stars the second time around!!!

Like you ladies I have heard EVERYTHING from people - you should cut out gluten, you should take a vacation, you should stop thinking about it etc. etc. etc. As my RE said to me at our f/u "Carolyn you know that NONE of that impacts your cycle and NONE of that has any bearing on the outcome!" So I think the next person who tells me something along those lines may get told this "while I appreciate your sentiments, at this point in time vacations, relaxing, not stressing will have NO bearing on my ability to have a baby" 

And I have also come to telling people when they say "oh you don't have kids?" or "are you planning on having kids" I say "I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to have children" that shuts people up pretty quickly!!!!


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## Victory78

Springy said:


> And I have also come to telling people when they say "oh you don't have kids?" or "are you planning on having kids" I say "I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to have children" that shuts people up pretty quickly!!!!

Good advise Springy!


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## Springy

I think when I phrase it like that people know that it isn't an issue of not wanting kids or not trying to have kids but that there is a reason we don't have them and that perhaps they are overstepping boundaries when asking about that .... 

Do you have any idea when you will try again? Are you NHS funded? We don't have any funding in Canada:cry:


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## s08

I can relate so well to almost everything that you ladies are saying, its like I'm writing it myself! Victory, I also have resentment toward my friends who "cut" in line...as irrational as it sounds. In fact, one of my best friends is giving birth this week to her second daughter in the time we've been trying (even though she and her husband met and got married after we did). My other great friend told me she and her husband are trying now, so I'm dreading that announcement...should be any day now. Infertility has turned me into such a b#$*@! 

DH and I have our IVF follow-up appointment tomorrow with our RE. I hope we will get some answers, but am not holding my breath. 

I must admit that I am feeling a little better the last couple days. At least I can talk about our failed cycle now without breaking down in tears. A few days ago...not so much. I'll keep you all updated if my doctor has anything interested to say tomorrow.


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## Springy

S08 - wait for this ... DH and I got married in May 2009. At that time all of my four closest girlfriends were single and came "solo" to our wedding. TWO of them have since met significant others, got married, one has HAD her baby and the other is due in July. ALL in the time that I have been trying for #1 - talk about making me feel like a failure :(


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## s08

Springy said:


> S08 - wait for this ... DH and I got married in May 2009. At that time all of my four closest girlfriends were single and came "solo" to our wedding. TWO of them have since met significant others, got married, one has HAD her baby and the other is due in July. ALL in the time that I have been trying for #1 - talk about making me feel like a failure :(

They totally cut in line! Don't our friends know they have to wait for us to get pregnant first?!? I am fortunate that I actually have a couple friends who have not starting trying yet. I even think one is delaying TTC on my behalf, bless her. But I know it won't be long. 

My DH and I are right behind you guys...we got married in June 2009. I'm sure like you, I was hoping to have something extra special to celebrate for our 3-year anniversary, but not so. I keep trying to tell myself we have lots of other things to appreciate. Does that ever work for anyone?


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## Springy

Everyone tells me that I have so many positive things in my life and I should focus on that. But for some reason these things are not enough - I feel empty without a baby and I wonder if I will ever get to the place where I am "ok" with not having kids. My friend who did ivf said she was only able to relax through the ivf process when she was "ok" if they never had kids .....


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## aleja

Hi ladies I can't imagine being ok with not having a child just yet . I still feel like I'm at the beginning of this journey. 
Although my closest friends haven't "cut in" as such .. A lot of them started trying before after us , I am now absolutely dreading their babies 1st birthdays (as it will be full of happy families and babies) and the inevitable announcement of 2nd pregnancies . I hate turning an envious bitter person sometimes but I still find to grasp the unfairness of it all . 

Springy I am hoping our current frozen are rock stars !! 
What do they do during an endometrial biopsy?? Did you ask for one or did your FS offer it? I love my FS but he seems to have more faith in the process (and my body) than I do, hence the al natural FET with absolutely no support !


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## Springy

I had heard about the biopsy and I found a clinical study which showed that doing a biopsy the month before and FET did show an increase in implantation. Now she doesn't feel my issues are implantation but I figure I want to maximize every chance to get this BFP and be done with infertility! 

She said the evidence for biopsy is controversial - she said that some studies have shown it helps some have shown no difference but she said it definitely can't hurt - other than the physical pain which I have heard is 20 seconds of absolute HELL!!!

When are you doing your FET?


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## s08

Thanks for the info. on the endometrial biopsy, Springy. I'm going to ask my re about it today at my ivf follow-up. I'm sure she loves patients armed with information/suggestions from the internet! Hah!


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## Springy

s08 said:


> Thanks for the info. on the endometrial biopsy, Springy. I'm going to ask my re about it today at my ivf follow-up. I'm sure she loves patients armed with information/suggestions from the internet! Hah!

I can pass along a PDF of the clinical study if you want to see it. It wasn't just a Dr. Google thing it was an actual clinical trial ;)


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## s08

Springy said:


> s08 said:
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. on the endometrial biopsy, Springy. I'm going to ask my re about it today at my ivf follow-up. I'm sure she loves patients armed with information/suggestions from the internet! Hah!
> 
> I can pass along a PDF of the clinical study if you want to see it. It wasn't just a Dr. Google thing it was an actual clinical trial ;)Click to expand...

I'd love it! Thanks for the offer. And I certainly didn't mean to imply anything about the scientific validity of it or anything! :flower:


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## Springy

Oh trust me I am always very good to tell the Dr. it isn't from just "google" or some "forum" .... and that it is backed by good science :thumbup: I work in the pharmaceutical / biotechnology industry and I am doing my Masters of Science so I don't want her to think I pulled the information from yahoo or about.com!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3025806/


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## aleja

thanks springy, i will have a read about it. ouch it sounds like it will be a bit painful though (probably no worse that what we have already been through!)
i have no idea what my FS would say about this one but if the next cycle doesn't work I might ask about it. 
i think all doctors these days know that patients do the dr google thing, i know my doctor made some joke about it..but I am sure they would be impressed if the suggestions actually come from medical journals or research studies. 

I am still waiting for my AF to arrive before i can start the FET. i think it will be another week still. I have long cycles:dohh:
Will you be transferring 1 or 2? My FS made me consent to 1 only again. They are fairly strict in Australia and will only let ladies transfer 2 if you are older or have repeated failure.


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## Springy

So you're the same as me - waiting for AF! Mine will be here around 2 weeks from now given that I am just ovulating now. So we will be close in our FETs :hugs:

We are transferring two - we put 2 back the first time and will put 2 this time too. Mine are day 6 blasts so they are saying they are inherently not as good quality as if they were day 5 blasts, so I'm not super confident that my FET will work but stranger things have happened!!! 

Whereabouts in Australia are you? There are a lot of similarities wrt health care, drug regulations etc. between CA and AUS. The company I work for actually has CA and AUS/NZ grouped together because of all our similarities.


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## s08

Well Springy, it sounds like we might have a similar diagnosis. We had our IVF follow-up yesterday, and my re said there could be an egg quality issue. We had so many fertilize, yet on day 5, we only had lots of not-so-great early blasts. For this reason, she did not have high hopes for our one frostie. In fact, she said we might consider doing another fresh cycle first and saving the frostie to transfer with another frozen one later. 

Like you, she said we could have much better quality next time. She wants to reduce my meds in the hopes that I produce fewer, but better quality, eggs. We will probably even do half-ICSI, so they can take a look at the eggs at least visually for quality issues. 

DH and I talked and decided we are going to take our chances with the FET first. Even if the chances are low, the cost is also pretty low (about $3,000). It has a decent grade (even better than it did on day 5, which my re says she has never seen before...not what I want). I suppose if it is strong enough to freeze and thaw, maybe it has a chance. 

If all fails, our next step will probably be donor eggs. Before yesterday, I had never thought about them at all. Does anyone know the cost? 

Also, anyone know if you can improve egg quality? I do acupuncture, have a pretty good diet, little caffeine or alcohol, etc.


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## Springy

s08 I am SO sorry to hear that you got the same news as me - it was devastating for me :hugs:

Acupuncture can help and then I was given a list of supplements to take which are suppose to help with quality but need to be taken for 3 months to see a real benefit.

Coenzyme Q10 - 800 mg a day
A fatty acid supplement - I was told to take 1tsp a day of Super EFA by Genestra
Vitamin C - 2000 mg a day
Vitamin E - 400 IU a day

The clinic also told me to take 2 mg of myo-inositol and a few other things. My naturopath yesterday was going to look into the others for me and let me know if they are really necessary or not. The most important one, from both the fertility clinic and my naturopath's perspective, was the Coenzyme Q10. There is some decent animal evidence that it "regenerates" egg quality. 

Our FET cost is $2150 plus medication (estrogen and progesterone) so like you we are doing the FET vs another fresh cycle. If FET fails then we will do another fresh cycle in the fall.

I know hearing "rotten eggs" at the age of 33 was devastating to me so vent away and hang in there we'll get through this together!!!!!!

Whereabouts are you located?


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## s08

Springy said:


> s08 I am SO sorry to hear that you got the same news as me - it was devastating for me :hugs:
> 
> Acupuncture can help and then I was given a list of supplements to take which are suppose to help with quality but need to be taken for 3 months to see a real benefit.
> 
> Coenzyme Q10 - 800 mg a day
> A fatty acid supplement - I was told to take 1tsp a day of Super EFA by Genestra
> Vitamin C - 2000 mg a day
> Vitamin E - 400 IU a day
> 
> The clinic also told me to take 2 mg of myo-inositol and a few other things. My naturopath yesterday was going to look into the others for me and let me know if they are really necessary or not. The most important one, from both the fertility clinic and my naturopath's perspective, was the Coenzyme Q10. There is some decent animal evidence that it "regenerates" egg quality.
> 
> Our FET cost is $2150 plus medication (estrogen and progesterone) so like you we are doing the FET vs another fresh cycle. If FET fails then we will do another fresh cycle in the fall.
> 
> I know hearing "rotten eggs" at the age of 33 was devastating to me so vent away and hang in there we'll get through this together!!!!!!
> 
> Whereabouts are you located?

Thanks for the recommendations about supplements. I will have to look into these. It's worth a shot.

Also, I wanted to let you all know I asked my re about an endometrial biopsy yesterday. This was her response: she is aware of the study, but didn't put a lot of faith in it because the results have not been replicated in subsequent studies. Despite that, she recently performed one based on a patient's request because she didn't think it would do any harm. 

Oh, and I'm located in Seattle. Unfortunately, I'm in a state where IVF insurance coverage is not mandatory, so we're on our own like you and many others. I just found out we get a 10% discount on IVF round two. Little consolation after a failed cycle, but we'll take whatever we can get. And my re thought she might be able to get us some sample meds this time around. I think she might feel badly for recommending we not purchase the discounted multi-round IVF package in the first place!


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## Springy

s08 - my RE said the EXACT same thing as yours ... yes I know about the study, but it hasn't been replicated, but it can't harm anything. Hence why we're doing it. If it can't harm my situation and if it may at all help me I figure I should do it.

So with that said .... would she do the biopsy on you?

My company has an office in Seattle and I work quite closely with staff there! It is definitely a city I want to visit! My brother loves Seattle and is a HUGE Seahawks fan ;)


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## s08

Springy said:


> s08 - my RE said the EXACT same thing as yours ... yes I know about the study, but it hasn't been replicated, but it can't harm anything. Hence why we're doing it. If it can't harm my situation and if it may at all help me I figure I should do it.
> 
> So with that said .... would she do the biopsy on you?
> 
> My company has an office in Seattle and I work quite closely with staff there! It is definitely a city I want to visit! My brother loves Seattle and is a HUGE Seahawks fan ;)

I think she would do the biopsy just to placate me, but we didn't make any decisions about it. 

You should definitely plan a visit to Seattle, preferable in the summer when its so hot everywhere else. It's a great city. I see you are in Toronto. My parents just got back from there and Quebec, and loved them both. I'll be putting them on my travel list.


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## Springy

Toronto and Quebec city are very different! Toronto is very modern and urban and Quebec City is very historic. Both have lots to do and lots to see :)

I went to the clinic today to see if I have ovulated so they could schedule the biopsy and apparently I haven't ovulated yet - CD23 - seriously!??!! But I am about to ovulate so she gave me ovidrel to take tonight and my biopsy is scheduled for June 11th and my FET cycle should start on the 16th of June - transfer maybe around the end of the month.


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## aleja

Hi gals 
Springy do you usually have long cycles? I am having the same issue ... I either ovulated very early or late or not at all ... I expected that cycle after the Stims to be a weird one but at the point in time I am wondering whether AF will ever show her face .. Just when I need her the most . 
It's great you are getting triggered.. A natural BFP would be amazing ! 

I live in Sydney .. Yes there is lots of similarities btw Australia and Canada (besides the Queen!) . I have always wanted to visit Seattle as I am a huge music fan and it's musical history really appeals to me . 

How do they diagnose or determine poor egg quality? S08 it seems to soon to be thinking about donor eggs ? You got 23 eggs which seems like a lot of eggs,. Did you get OHSS ? Sometimes overstimulation of the ovaries can lead to poor eggs so I can why your FS wants to decrease the number of eggs retrieved . 

I am also very sceptical about the FET working I am trying to tell myself that the easy nature of the cycle is exactly what I need for the frosties to stick


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## Springy

I don't know if there is a specific way to diagnose poor egg quality ... my diagnosis was based on the fact that on day 5 my embryos were growing slowly and didn't make it to blastocyst till the following day.


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## Wallie

Springy, sorry to butt in but I've had three cycles of IVF and only at the last one there was a mentiono of poor egg quality. I certainly wouldn't feel that you have poor egg quality with what happened to you previously.

You produce enough eggs and yes they didn't look perfect at day 5/6 but yours made it, mine have never done in 3 cycles.

Personally I'd keep using my own eggs and get a second opinion.

:hugs:


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## Springy

Wallie said:


> Springy, sorry to butt in but I've had three cycles of IVF and only at the last one there was a mentiono of poor egg quality. I certainly wouldn't feel that you have poor egg quality with what happened to you previously.
> 
> You produce enough eggs and yes they didn't look perfect at day 5/6 but yours made it, mine have never done in 3 cycles.
> 
> Personally I'd keep using my own eggs and get a second opinion.
> 
> :hugs:

Thanks ..... I did find several articles that reference slow developing embryos and those which are not at blast on day 5 as being classified as poor quality. In my doctor defense she did say 100% to use our frozen ones and to then do another fresh cycle as it could be totally different with a different batch of eggs. I think we are asking for another dr at the clinic to review our case before we do another fresh cycle to see if there are differences that we can implement for our next cycle. And our FET success she said was down to 30% from 40% .. I'm not totally out of hope yet!


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## s08

aleja said:


> Hi gals
> Springy do you usually have long cycles? I am having the same issue ... I either ovulated very early or late or not at all ... I expected that cycle after the Stims to be a weird one but at the point in time I am wondering whether AF will ever show her face .. Just when I need her the most .
> It's great you are getting triggered.. A natural BFP would be amazing !
> 
> I live in Sydney .. Yes there is lots of similarities btw Australia and Canada (besides the Queen!) . I have always wanted to visit Seattle as I am a huge music fan and it's musical history really appeals to me .
> 
> How do they diagnose or determine poor egg quality? S08 it seems to soon to be thinking about donor eggs ? You got 23 eggs which seems like a lot of eggs,. Did you get OHSS ? Sometimes overstimulation of the ovaries can lead to poor eggs so I can why your FS wants to decrease the number of eggs retrieved .
> 
> I am also very sceptical about the FET working I am trying to tell myself that the easy nature of the cycle is exactly what I need for the frosties to stick

Hi Aleja! Has AF started yet? What CD are you on? Oddly enough, I just got a smiley face on my OPK last night on CD 13, just like I always do. I thought my cycle was going to be wacky after the stims and chemical, but maybe not. We'll see when AF wants to show up. DH and I are still trying this cycle on our own, although it seems like its probably in vain. But you always hear about miracle natural BFP's, right? 

To answer your question, I did have 23 eggs, but didn't get OHSS. Surprisingly, I really didn't have any bloating or side effects from the stims at all. And I hope you are right that it may be too early to be all that concerned about egg quality and considering donor eggs. I'm just hoping next time we have quality -- not quantity (or both!). My husband said maybe it is like pruning an apple tree. If you want nice, big apples, you have to prune back a lot of smaller ones. Ha!

I know we are all skeptical about FET, but let's hope we are all proven wrong...and soon!

P.S. Definitely come to Seattle some time! If you're in to music, its a great place. (I sound like I work for the tourism board!)


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## Care76

Hi ladies, sorry to butt in. I know some of you, but I wanted to mention that if you are worried about your body rejecting the embryo or if you suspect any immune issues, talk to your RE about steroid help. I know if you live around me they won't even contemplate doing immune testing or steroids unless you have multiple failed ivfs, but I know I can't afford that. I have heard of a couple clinics doing this, but out west. That is why we went to Cancun (and because it was super cheap compared to the prices in North America and the doctor guaranteed it or it's free the next round). Also because if it turned out to be egg quality we could go back for a fresh transfer with no ivf cost and their donor program is super affordable. So talk to your RE and see if they will bend for testing or even just use steroids for 20 days or so. It will help allow your body to except the embryo. I was very against steroids at first because I am very natural, but in the end I just wanted my baby. 

Good luck ladies! After ttc for almost 13 years I can relate. :hug:


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## Springy

Care - I asked about steroids to take during my FET and the RE specifically said no and that when there is not clear diagnosis of immune issues that they can do more harm than good .... so I'm going to trust the Dr. My issues we believe are much more related to egg quality than immune so I'm not all that worried at this point.

Did you ever see about seeing Dr. Virro? I know he does a lot of stuff with immune testing and IVIG etc.


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## Care76

Yes, Dr. Virro was our choice here, but we didn't want to wait the 6+ months to see him. And then after talking to women that went to IREGA we decided that was best for us. 

The thing is, it is very hard to get an actual diagnosis let alone testing for immunity issues around here unless you have done multiple failed IVFs. But based on my history and my endometriosis it seemed likely. It is just worth looking into for people suspecting immune issues.


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## Springy

I totally agree ... before I went in for my follow up we thought maybe it was immune issues but then after we got there and had the "its poor egg quality" bomb dropped on us we kind of let the immune issue go!


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## s08

Care76 said:


> Hi ladies, sorry to butt in. I know some of you, but I wanted to mention that if you are worried about your body rejecting the embryo or if you suspect any immune issues, talk to your RE about steroid help. I know if you live around me they won't even contemplate doing immune testing or steroids unless you have multiple failed ivfs, but I know I can't afford that. I have heard of a couple clinics doing this, but out west. That is why we went to Cancun (and because it was super cheap compared to the prices in North America and the doctor guaranteed it or it's free the next round). Also because if it turned out to be egg quality we could go back for a fresh transfer with no ivf cost and their donor program is super affordable. So talk to your RE and see if they will bend for testing or even just use steroids for 20 days or so. It will help allow your body to except the embryo. I was very against steroids at first because I am very natural, but in the end I just wanted my baby.
> 
> Good luck ladies! After ttc for almost 13 years I can relate. :hug:

Hi Care. Congratulations on the pregnancy. Can I ask a few questions about your clinic in Mexico? Like how did you decide to go there? What was the cost? How do their success rates compare? I'm just curious, I guess. We are considering traveling three hours north to Vancouver, BC for round 2 of IVF because its much cheaper there than in the states.


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## Care76

s08 said:


> Hi Care. Congratulations on the pregnancy. Can I ask a few questions about your clinic in Mexico? Like how did you decide to go there? What was the cost? How do their success rates compare? I'm just curious, I guess. We are considering traveling three hours north to Vancouver, BC for round 2 of IVF because its much cheaper there than in the states.

Thank you. :cloud9:

I belong to another forum as well, IVF .ca and there was a thread there about going to Mexico for IVF. At first I was super skeptical because I thought of going to Mexico as dangerous and the medical tourism dirty and honestly, like a chop shop. I talked to my doctor and acupuncturist (my acupuncturist trained for a couple years in Mexico) and both said there were some great clinics there, but you had to do your research. So that is what I did. I researched for 6 months. I talked to women that went to two different clinics. One clinic seemed great, but I was getting the run around when trying to meet for skype calls. and my questions weren't always answered. I had a bad feeling about that one. I always had a great feeling about my clinic and Sheri (my international facilitator) was great and always made me feel at peace. After talking to a few girls that had been there we made our decision to go there. I am so happy I did because another girl went to the other clinic in Guadalajara and we cycled together. we kept in touch during our stay in Mexico and we had completely different experiences. I felt so bad for her, she really was not treated well at all. She is now looking into going to our clinic. But my husband and I were very thankful we chose IREGA because we had an amazing experience.

I am not sure about success rates, because I was told by a FS here in Canada not to trust them. I do know that more than half of the women I spoke to became pregnant while at our clinic. Also, our doctor guarantees a success or he waives the IVF fees the second round. He prefers to do fresh, but you can do a frozen transfer if you want. I was leery on this part, but one of the girls I spoke to lost her pregnancy and she was in fact offered to go back free of charge (she had to pay her meds I believe). So that was a plus for us. Also, we had a relaxing vacation out of it and that I think helped as well. 

Ok, so Sheri at IVF-Cancun actually emailed me yesterday telling me of a price decrease. She knows a lot of women contact me after reading my story on the other forum so she wanted me to know. I am a bit jealous because we paid more, but really I am not because we have our miracle and that is worth anything! So the new price is $6,800 and it includes your accommodation and all meds before and after ET. So all progesterone in oil and suppositories as well as the estradiol for your 40 days after ET are also included. I can't believe a place to stay is included. There are two guest houses and I guess it depends on which one is available. If you want to do a resort instead (what we did), they will take $300 off of your cost, so $6,500. The guest houses have kitchens and Sheri or her husband Erick take you to Walmart or wherever you want to go to get groceries. There is also laundry right there and high speed internet. Sheri or Erick also pick you up and take you to all of your appointments. Sheri is from Canada and Erick is from Mexico City. They are super sweet and will help you with anything you need while there. They live in the condo complex too. We drove by as it was down the street from our resort and it looked very nice. Another couple going for ivf was staying there at the time we were there. 

I can tell you that we payed for a very nice resort and it was during high season (jan-feb) and our meds, and we still payed less than here in Canada (Toronto area). We had ICSI as well, which is an extra cost here.

I think I answered all of your questions. If you want to ask me anything just ask away. You can pm me too. Given that I honestly gave up on the idea of having my own biological children years ago, to have success is an amazing feeling. I just want everybody to have the same chance. Wherever you go I wish you success. :hugs:


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## Wallie

What steriods did you take and was it just from EC?

Thanks and congratulations on your pregnancy.


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## Care76

Thanks Wallie!

It was dexamethasone and 1mg I believe. It was from embryo transfer and I took it for 20 days.


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## aleja

Hi girls 
Thanks Care for the food for thought about the immune issues . My clinic has an FS who specialises in immune protocols so that is an option for us if it gets that far 

S08 my cycles are long 32-38 days but I always ovulate . This one I am on CD 40 and stuck in an Endless CYcle:shrug: I will call the clinic if no AF this week 
Springy when is your AF due?


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## Springy

Hi Aleja! My cycle was totally messed up too - I went in for monitoring on CD 23 and I still hadn't ovulated!!! So that day they asked me to trigger with ovidrel so that we could just get things moving forward so AF will now show up around the 17th - so next Sunday.

Then I start my FET protocol - CD 3 bw & us and then start estrace CD 14 bw & us and then if ready start prometrium and transfer 5 days later so I am looking at roughly a transfer on the 5th of July.

How is everyone else holding up?


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## s08

Sorry about the wacky cycles, Springy and Aleja. So far, my cycle has seemed amazingly normal, so we'll see what happens when I expect AF. 

Springy, I'm excited to hear about your FET goes. Its right around the corner. Will you do 2 separate FET's with 2 embryos each time if necessary? 

How is everyone feeling emotionally? I'm actually doing pretty well now. Maybe I'm in the "acceptance" phase of this grief process. Ha! I can actually talk about our failure without losing it completely. Anyone else feel the same? 

DH and I are trying on our own during this natural cycle, although if medicated iui's and an IVF cycle doesn't do it, I have no idea why I think it would possibly work during a completely natural cycle. But oh well. 

We will be on vacation in July when we could do our FET next, so we're pushing it off another cycle. Shooting for early August.


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## Springy

s08, I am exactly like you - emotionally I am MUCH better now than I was even two weeks ago. I can talk about the failed cycle and our follow up and what the future holds without crying. I can actually talk about it very matter of factly so I guess that is a good sign!?

I am actually going to see an infertility counselor next week to "talk" with her about it. I think I am more looking for coping skills for the future and dealing with future failures or how to start to come to terms with not having our own kids. Those kind of things.

The plan is 2 separate FET with 2 embryos - all depends on what happens during the thaw. Our plan is actually written out as "thaw until 2 embryos have 80% viability" so we may not get two, we may go through thawing of all 4 before we get two. I'm trying not to stress too much about that at this point.

You are SO lucky that your cycle has returned to normal!!! I would have loved that. 

Ohhh - vacation!!! We are thinking of taking one at the end of July / start of August. Whereabouts are you headed????


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## s08

Springy said:


> Ohhh - vacation!!! We are thinking of taking one at the end of July / start of August. Whereabouts are you headed????

Well, don't get too excited about the vacation. Unfortunately, it won't just be DH and I lounging on a beach or anything. Its a 10-day family reunion-type trip with about 20 of DH's family members. His grandma takes us all somewhere fun every two years or so (Mexico, Hawaii, etc.). This year we're just going to a resort town 4 or 5 hours away b/c his grandma's health isn't as good. So, I can't really complain because I love his family, its a nice place with great weather (and free!), its just not the most exciting vacation in the world. I sound a little unappreciative, don't I? I need an attitude change!

Do you know where you're headed for vaca?


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## aleja

yes a messed up cycle is so frustrating. i am not surprised because my menstrual cycles seem to be so sensitive. however springy at least you have an end date in mind. next sunday will come around quickly. At this rate i will also be doing a July FET..the biggest bummer is that my FS will be on 2 week's leave in July so its possible that a different FS will do the transfer. I so wanted to avoid this scenario but sometimes you can't help mother nature. 

S08, i am feeling much better too (emotionally) but I still have some unhelpful thoughts popping into my mind here and there. The psychology of IVF is indeed fascinating...i think having a future cycle plan helps to stay focussed. However having said that yesterday DH and I had my nephew's 1st birthday party. The place was full of babies and happy families. My SIL even invited 2 of MY friends to the party (who are new mothers). I found this disturbing given these were my friends but obviously since their babies were born they have a little mother's club happening. 

So anyway to answer this question of 'am I ok now?' Mostly yes but I am very sensitive to the social isolation DH and I experience because of infertility. I almost got teary yesterday watching DH play with other people's babies. Sometimes I want a baby more for him to be a father rather than for me..anyways sorry about the long story...

Springy, going to the counsellor is a great idea. I'd love to hear their thoughts on coping with an uncertain future.


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## aleja

Hi ladies , I'm bumping to find out how things are going? 
I ended up having the longest cycle ever post IvF . It was a 49 day whopper. It took acupuncture and Provera to end it . Now I'm waiting to see if I can have a natural FET this cycle . 
GL x


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## Springy

Hi Aleja!

I went in on CD 24 and I still hadn't even ovulated so that would have put me at around a 38 to 40 day cycle which is CRAZY! Since I was doing an FET with the next cycle they wanted to time my endomtrial biopsy so they actually triggered my ovulation and forced my cycle to end - which I was thankful for!

I have been on estrace 2x a day since the 18th of June and I have a lining check on Wednesday of this week. If all looks good my transfer of my frozen embryos will be scheduled for next week.

The FET cycle compared to a fresh is SO easy .... its actually kind of boring!


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## aleja

Hi Springy, good to hear from you!

Gosh I wish someone had told us that the post IVF cycle was going to be an ordeal!!! 

I am glad your came to an end too. 
What was the endo biopsy like? 

I am having my first monitor on Thursday ...i am seriously praying that my ovulation is coming along soon. Maybe I will be having a FET next week too!

It is so easy indeed but I am grateful for that . i was thinking back to how sick and 'weird' I felt during the stim cycle.

GL to us both xx


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## s08

Aleja and Springy, glad to see you both have your fet's around the corner. I'm a little jealous actually. How are you both feeling emotionallly? 

Hearing about your post-IVF cycles, I guess I got lucky with mine. I ovulated around day 14 and had a textbook 28 day cycle per usual. Not sure why. 

I'm still set for a fet next cycle since we'll be on vacation in July. We can't "try" this cycle because I'm having a biopsy during my luteal phase, which is fine because I'm planning imbibing in some cocktails on vaca! (I laughed when my dr told me we have to use some sort of birth control this month b/c of the biopsy...like I could actually get pregnant despite two years of trying with nothing). I'm just struggling right now to confirm that my insurance will cover the biopsy...gotta love dealing with insurance companies. 

Can't wait to hear about your fet process and results!


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## Springy

Emotionally I am fine as I honestly don't believe the FET will work so I am mentally preparing for a fresh cycle in the fall - most likely end of October or early November after my friends wedding on the 13th. If the FET works I will be flabbergasted and shocked .... 

s08 - we were told the same thing - do not actively try to get pregnant during the cycle with the biopsy. We originally were told that it wouldn't affect a pregnancy if it were to happen - the concern is that you get pregnant and then they remove it during the biopsy .... we abstained even though I had the same thought as you - SERIOUSLY its been close to 3 years what are the chances it happens now?!?!?


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## aleja

Heya girls nice to chat again! 

S08 I was feeling slightly envious on another thread when they were all on cycles and was stuck in a never-ending cycle!
I am really keen to hear about the biospy. I hope it does the trick for your little emby. I must admit I am so jealous of your 28day cycle .. I dream of this!!!! 

Springy that's really sad to hear you think it won't work. You never know hun ..maybe the embys will like being in a less stressed and stimulated environment . Will you go through all 4 frosties before doing a new stim? ( if you need it that is) 
Where are you in your cycle at the moment? 

The clinic is starting to track my surge ... Hopefully I will have a FET next week maybe


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## Springy

Good morning :hi: Aleja

We will use all of our frozen ones before going forward with another fresh cycle, and yes I suppose that I should be a little more positive they did after-all make it to blast and met the grading to be frozen so hopefully they are hearty little ones and one wants to stick around and be my child!!

If you are transferring next week you are RIGHT on the same schedule as me! I will be transferring between Tues - Friday next week!


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## s08

Springy said:


> Good morning :hi: Aleja
> 
> We will use all of our frozen ones before going forward with another fresh cycle, and yes I suppose that I should be a little more positive they did after-all make it to blast and met the grading to be frozen so hopefully they are hearty little ones and one wants to stick around and be my child!!
> 
> If you are transferring next week you are RIGHT on the same schedule as me! I will be transferring between Tues - Friday next week!

Springy, you probably mentioned this, but will you be transferring 2 embies in 2 FET cycles (if round 1 is unsuccessful, that is)? I totally relate to not feeling optimistic based on the success rates we were given. I'm totally preparing for this not to work at all. Maybe if I keep expectations low, I can't fall as far (wishful thinking, I know). But at least you have 4 chances at this!

Confession time: I am active in another IVF thread here and lots of BFP's are rolling in now. I'm thrilled that all these women who have been struggling for a long time are getting their positives, but its still kinda hard to see for some reason. Why not us too, you know? I need to snap out of this pitty party!


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## Springy

s08 - what we do after this depends on what happens with this cycle. I am fully preparing for the fact that in order for us to get 2 embryo's to put back that we will end up having to thaw all 4 of our current ones. 

If for some reason we are lucky and thaw the first 2 and they survive the thaw and the FET doesn't work we would do another FET with the last 2 before a fresh cycle in the fall.

I TOTALLY get what you are saying about the BFPs rolling in ... I was on an April IVF thread and there was a good 8 to 10 of us going through IVF all at the same time in April and I think there were only 2 of us, myself plus one other, who didn't get positives. People with completely fragmented embryos, day 3 transfers, virtually no eggs retrieved compared to my 12 ... and all I could think was "why them and not me?" What I have learned is that these feelings are TOTALLY normal!!!! I am also on another forum which is mostly local ladies in Canada and there are tons and tons of positives flowing in on the FET thread and I think - great I will be the only BFN AGAIN. 

So not to worry your pity party isn't a party of one, its a party of two b/c I'm at the same party :haha:


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## s08

Springy said:


> s08 - what we do after this depends on what happens with this cycle. I am fully preparing for the fact that in order for us to get 2 embryo's to put back that we will end up having to thaw all 4 of our current ones.
> 
> If for some reason we are lucky and thaw the first 2 and they survive the thaw and the FET doesn't work we would do another FET with the last 2 before a fresh cycle in the fall.
> 
> I TOTALLY get what you are saying about the BFPs rolling in ... I was on an April IVF thread and there was a good 8 to 10 of us going through IVF all at the same time in April and I think there were only 2 of us, myself plus one other, who didn't get positives. People with completely fragmented embryos, day 3 transfers, virtually no eggs retrieved compared to my 12 ... and all I could think was "why them and not me?" What I have learned is that these feelings are TOTALLY normal!!!! I am also on another forum which is mostly local ladies in Canada and there are tons and tons of positives flowing in on the FET thread and I think - great I will be the only BFN AGAIN.
> 
> So not to worry your pity party isn't a party of one, its a party of two b/c I'm at the same party :haha:

At least I serve wine at my pity parties! :haha: 

Does your clinic give you a thaw success rate? My clinic's is over 90%, as they are pretty picky about those they thaw. I know you are keeping your expectations realistic, but I bet you'll have good luck on the thaw.


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## Springy

Haha there has been plenty of wine at my pity parties too :wine:

The thaw rate when eggs are vitrified is 90% so I assume that my clinic is a 90% success rate but I am a half empty kind of girl so I'm assuming that I will not be in the 90% but in the 10% ;)


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## s08

Springy said:


> Haha there has been plenty of wine at my pity parties too :wine:
> 
> The thaw rate when eggs are vitrified is 90% so I assume that my clinic is a 90% success rate but I am a half empty kind of girl so I'm assuming that I will not be in the 90% but in the 10% ;)

Since I know you are taking many supplements for egg quality, I thought you might find this interesting. My RE just called me to report on a supplement conference from which she just returned. She wants me to start taking CoQ10 (up to 1200 mg per day, but no less than 600). This is based on a Toronto doctor (Dr. Robert Casper) study finding good results with it. I guess he's presenting on it in the fall, so its not published yet (or something like that). He's not your dr, is he? Anyway, I just ordered the supplement from Amazon, so will start as soon as they arrive. I told my re I would gladly be her guinea pig. 

I was going to start DHEA, but now she says she doesn't think I will benefit from it. Not sure why, but I guess I'm going to trust her.


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## Springy

Nope not my doctor, I am assuming he is the doctor at TCART where they were running the clinical study using coenzyme Q10. I'm on 800 mg a day but I might self up this to 1200mg!

I think that the head RE and the clinic I am at Hannam fertility woud know about the results as the clinics in Toronto are all in the exact same area of the city!

I'll ask about it tomorrow when I am there!


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## aleja

:cry:Hi ladies, can I join the pity party???
My natural FET cycle has been cancelled. I got the call yesterday and I was so shocked....apparently my BT and US results show that I am not ovulating this month. WTF?? The FS gave some instruction about me starting Provera in 10 days and then I will be on a Clomid cycle for the FET. 

I have always ovulated although i have really long cycles. I told the FS lots of times that I ovulate late etc but suddenly because nothing is happening right now they decide to cancel. Interestingly, my FS is going overseas today so part of me thinks its just more convenient to cancel than wait it out because he won't be around to keep monitoring me. I am soooo annoyed!!:dohh:

Of course if I am not ovulating this means my cycles are still whacked since the stim cycle. Oh the irony...we went from male factor issues and me perfect, now suddenly i am having ovulation issues thanks to IVF. 
Sorry for the rant ladies..its just that now is a whole lot more waiting.

Springy, are you on a medicated FET cycle? i was so hopeful that I could have a natural drug-free cycle but now I am not sure this will work for me....

S08, I totally agree with feeling like everyone gets BFP's...I am only on one other IVF thread and most are cycling right now..I am sure the BFP's will start rolling in too - there has already been 2

CoQ10 is a bit of a wonder vitamin so it's worth a shot.


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## Springy

I'm on estrogen and now progesterone. My transfer is Tuesday!

I started the estrogen on day 3 and progesterone once lay lining was thick enough for transfer.

My clinic doesn't even pay attention to if you ovulate or not ....

Hang in there!! Xoxo


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## aleja

Springy, good luck for tomorrow!!!!!! 
Are u having any time off?
Can't wait to hear how it went hun

oh all these clinics do everything so differently......there is no point trying to compare


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## Springy

I am actually off work all week mainly because we had a two day holiday Monday and Tuesday of this week so I just added some vacation time on to have the whole week off as I have a ton of vacation time that I need to use up!

Will let you know how it goes.


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## s08

aleja, so sorry to hear about the cycle cancellation! I think we have all had to deal with more than our share of disappointment already, and now this. It just sucks, that&#8217;s all there is to say about it. 

Springy, good luck tomorrow and enjoy the vacation time. 

I only work two days this week and am then off for a much needed 10 day vacation! Ready to soak up some sun and get away from all things TTC! I wasn&#8217;t going to check BNB, but I might have to check in once next week to see how things turn out for you. 

So, we have opted not to do the endo biopsy before our FET anymore because we found out our insurance will not cover it. Since its &#8220;experimental&#8221; and our odds of success with our one egg aren&#8217;t great anyway, we&#8217;re saving our pennies for a future fresh cycle.

Spent yesterday with my two best friends yesterday. One just had her second baby (also has a 20 month old). The other is 9 weeks preggo with #1 after a couple months of trying. Her due date is the same week mine would have been if IVF worked. And I didn&#8217;t even cry&#8230;that&#8217;s progress, I suppose.


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## aleja

Hi s08
I hope you thoroughly enjoy your sun holiday ! 

When will your FET cycle start? 
I totally hear you about hanging with friends with babies. I don't cry either but I still feel a sense of failure and isolation when they all get together and talk about their babies. I can't help it but I have been really elusive lately , trying not to be surrounded by too many new mums . I guess it's self protection. 

Springy .. You must be PUPO right now..yah


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## Springy

Hi ladies,

Yep in the dreaded tww again! We thawed two embryos yesterday and both were viable. So we transferred back a 4aa and a3ab and we have two others that are still frozen! Rested all day yesterday and now just going to rest, read, do some school work today too.

How are you ladies coming along? Any updates?


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## aleja

Hey springy well done !! I hope you are feeling more positive about frozen embies now. 
Well hope you stay calm and just let the 2ww just happen. Probably easier said than done!!!! Will u test early??

No updates from me except that I have decided to bite the bullet and start taking the Provera within a few days .. I will just listen to the FS and take clomid next cycle . I really just want to be in with a chance as I can't cope with more waiting


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## Springy

I agree the waiting is the worst part!! I always felt so helpless while waiting .... Kind of like I feel now ....

I wouldn't say I feel really positive or negative about the FET. I don't think the embryos are great quality so that side of me thinks negative thoughts but then part of me feels like if the embryos made it to day 6 and made the freeze and thaw with such positive cell growth that maybe it can happen. So I am mostly just relaxing and thinking whatever will be will be, I cant control it now so why stress / worry about it.

If you start provera soon when do you anticipate the FET would be? I can't wait for you and S08 to get started, we all deserve a BFP!!!


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## aleja

hi springy, 
you are certainly in with a chance as your blasties survived and thrived. x
The waiting is by far the worst part of this whole experience .give me injections any day because at least it means SOMETHING is happening!!!!

IF my FET does go ahead next cycle I think I should be having it around the first week of August. I have to take the provera starting Monday for 7 days then when AF comes, take the clomid on day 3-5. I might try Acu next weekend as this seemed to help with bring on AF during my last never-ending cycle. 

Yes we do all deserve one for sure! Like every other IVF thread my other one I am on 3 BFPs have been announced in the last few days....the ladies seem to make it look so easy!!! and some of them are in their late 30's too (which gives me a bit of hope!)


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## Springy

I am really struggling with the BFP announcements, I know they do not in any way impact mine but there is still a sting of "why them and not me"

I feel horrible for saying that and feel awful for what this IVF is doing to who I am and how I react to people announcements.


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## aleja

I think it's normal to feel a tinge of envy or disappointment at all the announcements. But i dont mean it in a bad way against anyone because i really do wish those ladies happiness during their pregnancies. 
Sometimes I feel hopeful because it reminds me that IvF does work but other times I just feel sorry for myself as to why it can't happen for me too. ( which then I feel ashamed about these feelings) ahhhh it's complicated I guess!


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## Springy

Aleja - that's exactly me! So I guess there is comfort in knowing that my feelings are normal and also not alone in my feelings!

I agree it is not that I am not happy for them its about feeling sorry for myself and wondering if it will ever happen.

Will you do another fresh cycle?


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## aleja

Yes it is normal .. I had to explain this to my DH recently who thought I was overreacting when I told him I didn't like being invited to social events when their were all new mummy's and somtimes daddys and babies and then me or DH and I (yes it's happened to me a few times now). I explained I could help but feel a bit jealous but mostly just completely sorry for myself and for 'us' as a couple who haven't been able to feel what it's like to be a parent yet .

I will do another fresh cycle if it comes to that. Heck I wanted to do another fresh cycle instead of the FETs .
I am turning 35 at the end of the year so I thought that I should do one before my eggs get any older. FS said not to worry as "your ovaries don't know it's your birthday !":haha: he said that fertility will decline slowly rather than a huge steep drop. Plus he raised a good point that when/if it works then what do we do with all these left over frozen embryos ?? 

So it will be one FET at a time for us... I was thinking of asking to transfer the 2 last blasts together if the others haven't work.. Not sure if I will be allowed


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## Springy

Our debate is another fresh round with my eggs or moving straight to donor eggs - I am at the point where I don't even want to use my other two frozen ones if this doesn't work!!

Whereabouts are you located? Here in Canada we can transfer two blasts in every province except Quebec where they pay for IVF so they mandate a single embryo transfer.


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## aleja

Hi springy I am so surprised about your thoughts about donor eggs . Surely it's too soon for that ?? Has the FS spoke to u about DHEA to improve quality? I still think you are in with a very strong chance with your blasts ... This time next week you could be announcing a BFP !!!! You never know Hun .on bnb there is women getting pregnant with very sketchy looking embryos so why can't it be you too? 

I am from Sydney..IvF in Australia is fairly strict ...they will transfer 2 if you have had implantation failures or if you are older but the FS do a good job of talking you out of transferring more than 1 .. They tell you all the horror stories and risks so as a result I would be petrified of having twins


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## Springy

They pulled DHEA from the list of recommended supplements and now advise other things but not DHEA because the side effects are too great for lack of benefit. I'm on 1200 mg CoQ10 a day, 4 g of myoinositol, 1000 mg pycogenol, 400 IU Vitamin E and 1000 IU Vitamin C.

Some clinics in Canada are stricter than others with respect to number to transfer, the clinic I am with is fine with transferring two at my age (33 soon to be 34).

As far as donor eggs ... no they are not telling us to use donor eggs at this point, but financially I am not sure we can do another fresh cycle and then move to donor eggs. My IVF is out of pocket and costs roughly $11,000 per cycle .... at some point we need to make a financial decision about where our money is best spent with the best chance for success and if that is with donor eggs then I am willing to go that route to have a family. 

You are totally right - women with sketchy embryo's or way worse conditions than me get pregnant so I should be able to as well .... sadly though for some reason it isn't working for me! 

If we do another fresh cycle, which I think my husband really wants to do, we will be doing it in late October so might be around the same time as yours!


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## aleja

I can see why you would want to move onto donor eggs if it's about optimising your chances due to finances . It is all very expensive so I guess you want to be smart with where your money goes. 

I can understand why you are not feeling hopeful about your embies sticking .. I guess you have had the 4 IUI attempts too which add to the stress . But with iuis our FS said the success rates aren't really that great :14% per cycle average ..that's not great at all! 

As for the failed fresh cycle well we might fall into the category of less stimulation = better implantation ability . From an outside perspective your cycle turned out pretty well .. Most of your embryos fertilised , 6 blasts in total ( excellent result ) 

Hang in there springy I am sure we will get there eventually maybe sooner rather than later. Even if it means another fresh cycle in October then so be it x


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## Springy

Thanks Aleja! Definitely need to keep this thread going and keep in touch as we go through this again xox


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## aleja

Yes please let's us know with the FET.. I have a good feeling... 

Me: I have a dilemma: what would you do?
I was about to start using Provera on Monday (doctors orders) but that same morning I finally got a smiley opk so I may have ovulated yesterday after all. I didn't start Provera as I thought I'd let my cycle end naturally . Now I'm second doubting myself - what about if I didn't ovulate and an heading for another 40+
Cycle ... I cant cope with that again I will go crazy 

Should I just end this cycle regardless of ovulation or be patient just so I don't have to use meds unnecessarily?? Ahhhhh I don't know what to do!!!


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## Springy

Ughhh that is BEYOND frustrating!!!!! I am SO impatient I would just want to get the cycle going .... thats why I had them trigger my ovulation last month so we could do the biopsy and get the FET cycle underway.

I'm glad I have people like you to be "positive" for me as I sure am not feeling positive .... I don't feel any different and I know that having "no symptoms" is totally normal but at the same time I just can't help but think that I should feel something if this worked. SUCH a mind game! 

Am thinking about testing tomorrow night or Friday morning - that would be 14dpo or 15dpo so the result would be accurate.


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## aleja

Yes I am on the verge of taking the Provera now.........

on what cycle day did you ovulate on the Estrace and trigger?

Springy, if you tested today you would probably get an accurate but I can imagine you must be nervous too. I was freaking out at this point in my fresh cycle but then i started spotting and it was all over. Since you don't have any symptoms....maybe......?


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## Springy

For my FET they didn't worry about ovulation, it was only looking at my lining thickness before transfer. In the cycle before that they finally triggered me on day 23 to just move things along!

I'm of mixed emotions about no symptoms - some people, and I think most women here on BnB report a whole whack of symptoms before beta and around a positive HPT, however there is part of me that thinks that these women are looking SO hard for it that they are almost "imagining" symptoms. I have talked at great length with a few friends and my sister who all conceived naturally and they assure me that there is NO way I would "feel" anything before I would have even missed a period! As of today I am 9 days post 6 day transfer so 15 dpo .... I know the result when I do test will be accurate its just a matter of am I ready to see the result particularly if it is stark white .... 

I'll definitely update tomorrow morning as I am testing either tonight or first thing tomorrow morning so by tomorrow I will have my answer and then decide when we want to do another FET if we need it.


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## s08

Hi ladies! I'm currently on vacation and have not been checking the BnB forums until today (it's actually been really nice). I'm just briefly checking in to see if there was any good news around here. Springy, I look forward to your update tomorrow!


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## Springy

Well ladies I wanted to share the good news .... I POAS tonight and it is POSITIVE! FET DO work and day 6 embryos DO work!!!! It feels surreal and I am in total and utter shock! My beta is Monday :)


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## aleja

OMG IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!

That is amazing news...... I told you I had a good feeling!!!!!

Well done Springy .. And I am so happy that FETs do work that gives me a lot of hope for one of my embys 

Hi S08 I hope you are enjoying your holiday


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## HappyAuntie

Springy said:


> Well ladies I wanted to share the good news .... I POAS tonight and it is POSITIVE! FET DO work and day 6 embryos DO work!!!! It feels surreal and I am in total and utter shock! My beta is Monday :)

Congratulations!!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance: I've been lurking here for a while and I had to come out of hiding this morning... I'm going for my first FET in a matter of hours - we have two day-5 2BBs frozen, and I'm desperately hoping they survive the thaw... I've had a hard time working up any enthusiasm about this cycle and your post has given me just the shot of encouragement I needed! :hugs::hugs: 

H&H 9 months to you!!! Looking forward to hearing your betas! :flower:


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## Springy

Thanks Aleja!!!! It is all very surreal still ..... I don't think it will sink in till we hear a heartbeat. I can't wait to follow you guys through your FETs which will ALSO bring BFPs!

HappyAuntie - GOOD LUCK today!!! Keep us posted :)


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## HappyAuntie

They both made it and were both transferred! :dance: One had a small area of cell death but the dr said it was fine, and the other was 100% good...:thumbup: Now comes the hard part....


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## Springy

Congrats HappyAuntie!!!

Our clinic looked for more than 60% cell retention so 100% is amazing! Mine were 90% and 100% so hopefully yours will stick like mine!!!


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## aleja

Hi gals,
HappyAuntie, thanks for lurking around the thread AND big congratulations for your double transfer. As springy as testimony, FETs can be successful 

Springy, is this the first time you have seen two pink lines? I cannot imagine what that will be like!!!

Now I cannot wait to start the next cycle I am sick of being in limboland!


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## Springy

Yes I have never ever seen anything but stark white! I have tested daily since and also used a digital just to see the word pregnant!!!


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## s08

Huge congratulations Springy! I bet you are over the moon! Please keep us updated when you receive your beta results tomorrow. 

We have such similar IVF stories, so I hope I will be joining you very soon.


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## Springy

S08 - PLEASE do not give up hope!!! There was clearly not anything wrong with my embryos that were slower to develop. As my husband says "they are like their daddy they just took their time and were slow to get started!!" as he is the one who is always slow and laid back and nothing is ever urgent .... I on the other hand want things done YESTERDAY! :haha:


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