# Immunisation Angst



## Happy2BDaddy

Hi. I'm a dad, but seem to be turning into a B&B addict! My wife didn't register here in pregnancy, as this site was blocked from her work internet whereas one of the other ones wasn't.

Our beautiful, healthy little Eliza was born last Sunday (28th August) and I am loving sharing this most amazing time with my wife and baby.

We had a day or so of worry about her feeding, because she was quite sleepy and needed a lot of encouragement to wake up and feed for 24 hrs or so, but she has totally gotten the hang of it now and had regained a good amount of weight when weighed today.

So, now we're over that and all happy and healthy, the next major source of anxiety at the moment is the immunisation decision. I know it's a hot topic and to many having your child immunised is no brainer and that anyone who chooses not to is irresponsible etc., but my wife and I do not believe it is as clear cut as that.

I suppose you could say that we are fairly alternative in our lifestyle - we had a HB with no drugs, baby is BF only and we are considering continuing the BF-ing much later than mainstream western society considers normal (of course she will ween and go to solids as well as soon as she's ready).

We would not make any decision for our child just because it's the done thing or because it's what we are told to do by the government. No decision is to be taken lightly, and all points of view and as wide a range of evidence as possible must be considered.

We always knew that immunisations would be a tricky issue for us, and having done a lot of reading, I can certainly understand all the arguments for vaccination, but I can also see that there is a lot of evidence that it may not be the best thing for the immune system of a very young child.

I am also well aware that vaccines only work if the vast majority have them, and of many people's strong views re: the collective responsibility of society to ensure that children are vaccinated for the benefit of all.

My wife is much clearer than I am that she would prefer for Eliza not to have any vaccinations, but I am in a state of complete indecision and angst about it, and I have to be honest that I am a bit afraid of the judgements that I know will be made if we decide not to immunise.

I think that perhaps we need to weigh up the merits of individual vaccines, and make individual decisions if possible, although I don't imagine there will be much choice possible within the NHS and we can't afford to go private. At the moment I am leaning towards at least delaying vaccinations, as I have read a number of opinions from medical people and academics who believe that we vaccinate our children at far too young an age, and that we should wait until kids are at least two years of age so that their brains and immune systems have reached a certain level of maturity.

For me, this is agonising decision, and I would be interested to hear about the experiences and views of anybody who thought long and hard about whether to have their child immunised, regardless of your final decision.

Thanks.


----------



## aliss

Are you or your wife familiar with Dr. Sears and attachment parenting? He does have an immunization book which I feel is worth reading (or his regular baby book). As a pediatrician, he is pro-vaccine, I will admit that, but I think it's important to read both sides from a well-respected source. Sorry, I have no anti-vaccine sources right now, mine is immunized. Hopefully another poster can help with that. Good luck with your decision!


----------



## Palestrina

Are you in the US? I'd be really interested in other answers from american parents about this too. My LO is set to be vaccinated this week and I'm having anxiety about it.


----------



## NuKe

we thought long and hard about this before coming to our conclusion that the risk of poppy NOT having her jabs far outweighed the risks of her having them.
Good luck with ur decision!

And might i add, that i love seeing threads/posts from dads! Congrats on ur little girl!


----------



## waitandsee

Hello, just a short comment: 

please have your baby vaccinated. All studies I have looked up that are contra immunization have been more or less rejected by the scientific community and largely go back to the ideas of a crazy person. Unfortunately, public opinion has its own dynamic in that matter. 

I am a scientist myself so have had access to these studies. 

all the best for your family!


----------



## violetsky

I don't know if you are UK or US and obviously there are differences with the vaccinations depending on where you are. My lo was an all natural drug free birth that would have been at home if she didn't decide to come prematurely and scare us all, & is bf on demand etc, so I completely understand your perspective.

I was so so torn about my piglets vaccs - in truth I don't really agree with it and I can't tell you the sleepless nights I had. It seemed that either choice - to vacc or not to, could be the "wrong" choice and if God forbid anything happened I would never have forgiven myself either way. I don't like artificially, deliberately giving her something that can make her ill, but when it comes down to it, the side effects from the vaccines pale in comparison to the effects of the illnesses. 

As it was, I DID get her vaccinated (the 8wks, 12wks & 16wks diptheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, influenza b, pneumococcol, meningococcol c) The first one made her very poorly (without wanting to scare you. Bear in mind my lo was nearly 5wks premature so was barely a month old corrected when she had her first vaccs) but we got through it, and she was absolutely fine after the second two thank God. 

Now, I am glad I did it, glad it is all over now tbh lol, but I feel a certain safety in that she is now protected against some very nasty things, if that makes sense.

Best of luck with your decision, and congrats on your beautiful little girl!


----------



## Cattia

It's so tough. I can't talk about this to anyone I know as I just get a lecture about how irresponsible it is not to vaccinate. My daughter has had all her jabs apart from the MMR. That's the one I just can't brat to give her. If the vaccines were available separatly I would give them to her but mumps is not available so I am still undecided about what to do.


----------



## aliss

Cattia said:


> It's so tough. I can't talk about this to anyone I know as I just get a lecture about how irresponsible it is not to vaccinate. My daughter has had all her jabs apart from the MMR. That's the one I just can't *brat *to give her. If the vaccines were available separatly I would give them to her but mumps is not available so I am still undecided about what to do.

:rofl: I don't wish to tease but is that a breastfeeding typo or a Freudian slip after an exhausting day with a toddler??


----------



## Cattia

:rofl:
Didn't spot that one, a clear message from my unconscious I think!


----------



## Thumper

Welcome!
We haven't vaccinated. Same as all other parents on here we thought long and hard and for us this is the right decision. We looked into all kinds of research for and against. You can only do what you feel is right for your LO. It's never easy x


----------



## xsadiex

Such a hard choice, I have no idea what I will do. I also do not trust government regulations in deciding what's best but also do not want my baby to get ill. It's still hard even if you read both sides! Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

Thanks for your comments. Just for info - we are in the UK.

The thing is that I really do not think this issue is as black and white as many in either camp would like to believe. 

It's really tough.


----------



## SAmummy

Another thing to think about is that you don't really know where your LO will end up living when they grow up or if you are going to do any travelling to countries where these diseases are not totally eradicated . Things like mumps can make even an adult male sterile and are still going around. A few year back my husband got mumps. Thank goodness he had it mildly, but it could have been a lot worse. It's not just immunity for childhood you are thinking of.

We live in South Africa and so I wouldn't dream of not giving my children all their vacs. Measles and mumps still go around here.


----------



## lozzy21

We chose to vaccinate. We felt any risks from the vaccines were out weighed by the benefits of having them. With so much global travel you can no longer rely on heard immunity, years ago when we had eradicated most of the harmful illness in the uk you could get away with not vaccinating because you know no one else had it but now with so many legal and illegal migrants coming into the UK there is no way of ensuring your child will not come into contact with some one with mumps or TB.

We did leave a longer gap in between her injections than they recommend and we will be delaying her MMR but she will be having it


----------



## pachamama

Just out of interest, what are the benefits of delaying MMR? 

And for how long might you delay it for?

Sorry to hijack the thread...:flower:

x


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

lozzy21 said:


> We chose to vaccinate. We felt any risks from the vaccines were out weighed by the benefits of having them. With so much global travel you can no longer rely on heard immunity, years ago when we had eradicated most of the harmful illness in the uk you could get away with not vaccinating because you know no one else had it but now with so many legal and illegal migrants coming into the UK there is no way of ensuring your child will not come into contact with some one with mumps or TB.
> 
> We did leave a longer gap in between her injections than they recommend and we will be delaying her MMR but she will be having it

Yes, it is an option in my mind to delay her vaccinations and leave longer gaps for her to recover. But if you look into it, there is actually a lot of evidence to suggest that many vaccinations are not particularly effective, and it is not even clear that the fall in the incidence of many infectious diseases through the 20th century is actually due to the vaccination programmes.

This is quite an interesting article, but I have to say that I don't approve of his presentation of 'vaccination facts' that are actually opinions, not facts. Nontheless, if you can filter out some of the anti-vaccine bias, it is very interesting and a good launching off point for more research: https://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/dispelling-vaccination-myths-part-i/

I should also restate that I am completely on the fence, but it is obviously much easier to find the pro-vaccine evidence, given that it supports the official point of view and that the research is usually funded by the vaccine manufacturers.


----------



## lozzy21

If the eradication of these deseases in the uk isn't down to vaccination then what? Even some one who hasn't looked at any research will know it's more than a coincidence that these conditions decreased and then were not seen after the UK started routinely vaccinating but they still exist in countries where they cannot afford vaccines and that the NHS would not waste money on vaccinating children if it was not necessary


----------



## lozzy21

As for the link you provided I do not trust any "evidence" given by some one who has strong views ether way, evidence and statistics can be manupulated to give the result you want.


----------



## tannembaum

My original thought was not to vaccinate but I thought about it a lot and actually changed my mind.
I didn't have the mmr and at 18 caught mumps which led to glandular fever, I was so severely ill I was in and out of hospital. I now catch any illness going and its horrible!

We decided to delay lo's jabs instead as she was breastfed and was still protected by my immunaties.
Lo has just had her mmr at 15 months and tbh I wish id waited a little longer as she has really suffered :( but there is measles going around our area atm so the benefits will out weigh her poorliness atm.


----------



## discoclare

SAmummy said:


> Another thing to think about is that you don't really know where your LO will end up living when they grow up or if you are going to do any travelling to countries where these diseases are not totally eradicated . Things like mumps can make even an adult male sterile and are still going around. A few year back my husband got mumps. Thank goodness he had it mildly, but it could have been a lot worse. It's not just immunity for childhood you are thinking of.
> 
> We live in South Africa and so I wouldn't dream of not giving my children all their vacs. *Measles and mumps still go around here*.

I work in a hospital in North London and we are seeing a lot of measles and mumps at the moment here too.


----------



## Farie

We decided to vaccinate but on a very delayed scheduled.
She had her very first set at 8 months and we are delaying between them too. For us totally not immunizing felt a little to risky as we want to travel etc - but I also couldn't deal with the idea of jabbing a 6 week old!


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

lozzy21 said:


> As for the link you provided I do not trust any "evidence" given by some one who has strong views ether way, evidence and statistics can be manupulated to give the result you want.

Absolutely true, I totally agree. We just have to read and find out as much as possible and make up our own minds. The government has very strong views as well, so by that token I shouldn't trust their evidence either, as it could have been manipulated to give the results that those with a commercial interest want to present (USA-orientated: https://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-conflict.htm).

For me, articles like the one I linked to which are well referenced are more of a jumping off point to other sources of info. This is quite a good, less biased either way launching point (the same site as the bit about the conflict of interest): https://healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/



lozzy21 said:


> If the eradication of these deseases in the uk isn't down to vaccination then what? Even some one who hasn't looked at any research will know it's more than a coincidence that these conditions decreased and then were not seen after the UK started routinely vaccinating but they still exist in countries where they cannot afford vaccines and that the NHS would not waste money on vaccinating children if it was not necessary

Possibly due to improvements in diet, hygiene, sanitary measures, non-medical public health laws, new non-medical technologies, like refrigeration, faster transportation, etc. Countries that cannot afford vaccines also cannot afford all these other things.

I think one of the reasons that the effectiveness of vaccination programmes can be questioned is because of the incidence of major outbreaks of mumps, measles, polio etc. in heavily vaccinated populations. There's loads of data about this.

And I do think it is possible that the drive for routine vaccinations is motivated in part by commercial interests and scientific dogma.

I really am not sure about all this at all, but I cannot just accept the official line, and the more I have read the more questions there are about the best course of action.


----------



## discoclare

Happy2BDaddy said:


> I think one of the reasons that the effectiveness of vaccination programmes can be questioned is because of the incidence of major outbreaks of mumps, measles, polio etc. in heavily vaccinated populations.

To the best of my knowledge there haven't been any recent incidences of polio outbreaks in heavily vaccinated populations. Polio outbreaks usually occur in places like Nigeria where, in certain areas of the country, there has been an poor vaccination uptake in recent years.

Regarding measles and mumps, the majority of the measles cases we see in London are in unvaccinated children (either through parental choice or children who are too young to receive the vaccine). Mumps we have seen in both unvaccinated individuals and in those who received the first dose, but never went back for their booster dose.

In the case of measles and mumps the reason the effectiveness of the vaccination schedule has been compromised, is because not enough people are getting their children vaccinated. A vaccination programme can only be effective if enough people actually uptake the vaccine!


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

In 1989, the country of Oman experienced a widespread polio outbreak six months after achieving complete vaccination.

Outbreak of paralytic poliomyelitis in Oman; evidence for widespread transmission among fully vaccinated children. Lancet vol 338: Sept 21, 1991; 715-720.

In 1989 the CDC (in USA) reported: Among school-aged children, measles outbreaks have occurred in schools with vaccination levels of greater than 98 percent. They have occurred in all parts of the country, including areas that had not reported measles for years. The CDC even reported a measles outbreak in a documented 100% vaccinated population. A study examining this phenomenon concluded, The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.


----------



## Thumper

I have to say happy2Bdaddy from reading your Posts I think your mind has already been made, you just don't realise it yet? Maybe delay for now and keep researching?
We struggled to find any info or 'evidence' that wasn't heavily biased either way. You can only follow what you think is best.
One of the main shocks for us was the ingredients. But there are many reasons for and against. Interested in hearing about your research.


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

Thumper said:


> I have to say happy2Bdaddy from reading your Posts I think your mind has already been made, you just don't realise it yet? Maybe delay for now and keep researching?
> We struggled to find any info or 'evidence' that wasn't heavily biased either way. You can only follow what you think is best.
> One of the main shocks for us was the ingredients. But there are many reasons for and against. Interested in hearing about your research.

Maybe you're right. I certainly feel I am currently leaning towards not vaccinating but I'm really not at all sure. On this thread, it looks like I am very anti-vaccination, but it comes across that way because I am trying to show the reasons that I am questioning something which most people don't seem to question.

At home with my wife, who is very anti-vaccination, you would sometimes hear me presenting the pro-vaccination arguments or the vaccinate to our own schedule arguments, because I am not as sure as her.


----------



## Cattia

Happy2bedaddy, I think it is great that you are so proactive in your research whatever you decide. In our house my husband just leaves it up to me to make all these decisions and doesn't really have an opinion either way. Good for you.


----------



## stardust599

I choose to vaccinate although they were all a couple of months late and I will delay the MMR.

I choose to vaccinate as I believe the benefits strongly outweigh the risks. Also because my OH was not vaccinated (his Mums beliefs) and has been in intensive care with measles when he was younger, which made him so severely ill he ended up with secondary menighitis and a lumbar puncture. I couldn't do this to my baby. And also while I was pregnant he also caught mumps which affected his testicles severely, time will tell if it has affected his fertility. If I hadn't have been vaccinated it would have been very dangerous for me and my baby at that point in pregnancy and my lovely daughter probably wouldn't be hear or would live a very different type of life. Vaccinations do not always prevent these illness but they give your body the antibodies to fight them so that you have a minor illness rather than something with terrible side effects such as blindness, brain damage or death.

My OH is very angry at his mother for not vaccinating and has recently had all his brought up to date. If his measles infection when he was little had been any worse he would be dead, how would his mother feel then.

People who are not vaccinated have been protected by herd immunity - i.e. the diseases have almost been wiped out because everyone is immune to them from vaccines. We can no longer rely on herd immunity, as less and less people choose to have their children vaccinated and many more unvaccinated people are moving to our country these deadly diseases are coming back.

Another reason is that my cousin has an auto-immune disorder (basically she has no white blood cells as her immune system attacks itself, she got this after a severe post-birth infection). She is a teacher and has been advised to give up her work as there may be unvaccinated children in her classroom. The full-blown strain of disease in unvaccinated children is a much stronger and more dangerous rather than the mild vaccinated (hope this is making sense - vaccination "dilutes" the diseases) cases. She has been told that if she was to catch something as simple measles where it was the full-blown strain and not the milder, diluted strain from vaccinations it would be fatal for her. She can't have vaccinations herself due to her disorder.

We don't hear about the devastating consequences of not vaccination as the diseases are still very rare as the majority of the population still vaccinates and it keeps our children safe. Sadly these diseases are still around and in unvaccinated populations are still as deadly as ever.

These are a few interesting official statistics-

Rubella -

Pre-Vaccine 1964-1965
2,100 infant deaths caused by Rubella in US
11,250 miscarriages directly linked to Rubella in US
20,000 infants were left with CRS syndrome including 11,600 left deaf, 3580 blind and 1,800 mentally handicapped

Post vaccine 2001-2004 there have only been 4 cases


Whooping cough

Prevaccine 9000 deaths per year in the US
From 2001-2008 (post vaccine) there were only 181 death in total. Whooping cough is still common in children and babies but as most have been vaccinated it is usually mild. Unvaccinated children do not have the antibodies to fight off this very dangerous disease and are likely to end up very ill or dead.

Polio

Prevaccination in 1988 there were 350,000 cases. Post vaccine in 2008 there were only 1604 cases. Common complications of polio include irreversible paralysis and death.


----------



## kmac625

I can't state any figures or links to great scientific research, but I can tell you about a few people I have known and their stories about vaccinations.

I used to take sign language classes and my teacher was deaf as a result of having meningitis as a baby. She caught it from an unvaccinated older relative when she was still too young to have had her shot yet. Luckily her hearing was the only thing she lost.

A friend of mine's older sister died of the measles before he was born because they lived in a country that didn't vaccinate back in the 1960's. 

An ex-boyfriend of mine had whooping cough as a child, and luckily he had been vaccinated, so was only really sick, as opposed to needing to be hospitalized (or worse) had he not had some immunity from the vaccinations.

As you can tell, I'm pro-vaccine. I do think it's a very personal decision for every parent to make regarding their own children and I would never judge a parent who researched properly and decided against vaccination. However, I've never met anyone who has a negative story to tell about being vaccinated (besides becoming a touch ill after the shot, but no long term issues).


----------



## SAmummy

I think that to say it may not be because of vaccines that these diseases are uncommon is a real stretch. if it was because of hygiene and improved living conditions why is there increase in other infectious diseases which have no vaccines like swine flu ? I also think we forget that perhaps the scientists who are developing these vaccines are not money grabbing vilans conspiring with the government and pharmaceutical companies but people who actually care about finding solutions to horrible diseases ? If one of these companies found a cure for cancer would we suspect a conspiracy ? 

As for the polio outbreak in Oman, there is always the possibility a vaccination program can be compromised. Vaccines have to be refrigerated . If they are stored at room temperature for any length of time they can be rendered ineffective. It's crazy to deduce from that that vaccines aren't responsible for the decrease in these diseases.


----------



## discoclare

SAmummy said:


> I think that to say it may not be because of vaccines that these diseases are uncommon is a real stretch. if it was because of hygiene and improved living conditions why is there increase in other infectious diseases which have no vaccines like swine flu ? I also think we forget that perhaps the scientists who are developing these vaccines are not money grabbing vilans conspiring with the government and pharmaceutical companies but people who actually care about finding solutions to horrible diseases ? If one of these companies found a cure for cancer would we suspect a conspiracy ?
> 
> As for the polio outbreak in Oman, there is always the possibility a vaccination program can be compromised. Vaccines have to be refrigerated . If they are stored at room temperature for any length of time they can be rendered ineffective. It's crazy to deduce from that that vaccines aren't responsible for the decrease in these diseases.

I completely agree. Since it is a Saturday I am not at work and do not have access to the full Lancet paper, only the abstract. However, there are several things to note:
1. I did specify in my post that there have not been any* recent *outbreaks. 1989 is not recent. The vaccine used in Oman at the time is not the current polio vaccine.
2. They state that primary course was not completed until 7 months leaving plenty of unvaccinated infants susceptible and able to spread the disease (it was an imported strain into Oman not an endemic strain).
3. The uptake of OPV in Oman at the time wasn't even that great, less than 90%. 

Since I can't read the whole paper I cannot see what work was done on the vaccinated children who contracted polio. But I have seen in other papers of smaller outbreaks in Oman that the chilren lacked neutralising antibody to the strain (due to vaccination failure). Some vaccines are better than others. Some work great and the vast majority of people respond and make an antibody response. For others there may be certain groups of people that fail to make a response (Hep B stands out to me as an obvious example).

As a side note, hygiene standards haven't necessarily improved across much of Africa and Asia in the last 50 years, whilst vaccination programmes in those areas have been introduced and numbers of cases of diseases such as polio have fallen dramatically.

Anyway good luck with your decision.


----------



## waitandsee

I seriously do not understand why it is more acceptable for your baby to die from a disease than to feel uncomfortable from vaccine for a short time. 
Especially since the likelihood of contracting one of the still existing 20ish harmful diseases that can be vaccinated against is so much higher than getting fatal complications from vaccination (are there any cases at all?)
I think the contra vaccination idea comes from the fact that people think that those things are really far away from your home. I have an idea: why dont you visit a hospital in your area and inform yourselves on the incidences that are happening to infants there on a daily basis?
Also mind that as soon as you travel to another country or spend time with people who did so, the deck will be remixed and you might not be as safe as you think you are. 
I am vaccinated against every single possible disease because i work in the third world, and never had any problems (except yellow fever, which was because i stupidly had a few sips of beer afterwards).
Anyway when it comes to something as close to life and death of your child as this, I would make sure the information I base my opinion on stems from fact, not from other peoples opinions (who most of the time do not deserve any credibility imo). 
Sorry for being drastic.


----------



## Lina

I too agonised over whether to vaccinate. It has been the most difficult decision I have ever had to make, constantly looking at your baby for possible changes in behaviour or side effects. Thankfully he was fine and did not need anything. I have found in the period I delayed the vaccine, severe pressures from health visitors and scaremongering by doctors. People who choose not to vaccinate certainly are in for a rough ride as they are made to feel they are recklessly endangering their child's' life, when a decision either way is motivated by pure concern and love for their offspring. 

For me vaccinations are the lesser of the two evils especially as children in less developed worlds die each day unnecessarily of diseases which are easily preventable, such as polio. What keeps me going is the mantra, why let your child die of a third world disease?!!


----------



## xsadiex

I've decided to vaccinate now because if anything were to happen I'd never forgive myself...I've had my vaccines and I'm ok. I'm sure it's not great for you to have stuff injected in to you but at the end of the day it's worthwhile. My friend didn't have her vaccines and she got mumps are was quite ill. At least you know they're protected. 

I feel, as long as I use natural, organic products, eat organic food etc I am doing the best for my baby anyway.


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

waitandsee said:


> I seriously do not understand why it is more acceptable for your baby to die from a disease than to feel uncomfortable from vaccine for a short time.

It's not about feeling uncomfortable from a vaccine for a short time, it's about the risk (or otherwise) of causing permanent disability or illness to a child through vaccination.


waitandsee said:


> I think the contra vaccination idea comes from the fact that people think that those things are really far away from your home.

I can't speak for others, but we are certainly under no such illusion. It's about balancing the risk of the vaccines with the risk of our child contracting the diseases we are immunising against. 

Currently, I wish there was more choice available to us. At this time, I think I would prefer to take a middle road - minimise the number of vaccinations we give to our child, and make a decision on each vaccine individually in terms of it's risk vs the risk of the disease.

I've got a couple of books that would really help with that, but with all the combined vaccines it's pretty much an all or nothing choice. I haven't looked at what is available privately, as we could not afford that.


----------



## Cattia

The MMR is no longer available as three separate vaccines as you can't get the mumps one. I am trying to decide whether to give the MMR later (probably about age 4) or get the measles and rubella and leave the mumps.


----------



## discoclare

Happy2BDaddy said:


> waitandsee said:
> 
> 
> I seriously do not understand why it is more acceptable for your baby to die from a disease than to feel uncomfortable from vaccine for a short time.
> 
> It's not about feeling uncomfortable from a vaccine for a short time, it's about the risk (or otherwise) of causing permanent disability or illness to a child through vaccination.
> 
> 
> waitandsee said:
> 
> 
> I think the contra vaccination idea comes from the fact that people think that those things are really far away from your home.Click to expand...
> 
> I can't speak for others, but we are certainly under no such illusion. It's about balancing the risk of the vaccines with the risk of our child contracting the diseases we are immunising against.
> 
> Currently, I wish there was more choice available to us. At this time, I think I would prefer to take a middle road - minimise the number of vaccinations we give to our child, and make a decision on each vaccine individually in terms of it's risk vs the risk of the disease.
> 
> I've got a couple of books that would really help with that, but with all the combined vaccines it's pretty much an all or nothing choice. I haven't looked at what is available privately, as we could not afford that.Click to expand...

You're saying you can't afford it but if you haven't investigated how do you know? I have had private vaccines for travel reasons which aren't given at my GP under the NHS (yellow fever for example) and I didn't think it was expensive. I also asked about Hep B vaccination for my daughter, as we in the UK are pretty much the only developed country not giving HBV vaccine to the general population, and was quoted 15 pounds per dose (1st course is 3 doses over a 6 month period). 

You can see from my posts that I'm pro-vaccination, but I had also tried to source a private BCG vaccine different to method used on the NHS for my daughter (unsuccessfully I have to say). I'm clutching at straws here because I can see you really don't want to vaccinate, but I think you should investigate the private route further to see if you can make some kind of compromise that suits you (obviously you are aware that the mumps vaccine isn't being manufactured as a single vaccine at the moment though).


----------



## veganmum2be

i chose not to vaccinate my little one. i feel they weaken the immune system, and i do not believe they do a lot of good, i believe there is many risks and problems associated with them.

there is always going to be people disagreeing, from all backgrounds, everyone will always be able to 'prove' their argument regardless of what side your on. you just have to do as much research as possible and go with your gut. :shrug:

it is a hard decision to make, because there is so much to learn.
i occassionally question my decision then i do a bit more research and i'm confident again, it is hard when most people disagree with you.

good luck in yoir decision. 
:)


----------



## lynnikins

i fully vaccinated my boys, delayed the MMR but they have both had it since i know personally 2 guys ( now men looking to start familys ) who were hopsitalised for both measles and mumps as teenagers and one has already discovered fertility issues which very well could be as a result of his illness 8 years ago.
my boys have both had the BCG as well because we do travel and will throughout their lives to countries where there is no herd immunity for some of the things we have vaccinated agaisnt. to me the risks of serious illness from the disease outweigh the risks from the vaccinne.

I would be very wary of putting my child into nursery or school around here without them fully vaccinated as there have been recent outbreaks of mumps and measles and im currently pregnant and for the safety of this baby when its born its best in mine and my husbands minds to have our children vaccinated at a suitable age


----------



## Pikkle

I don't think this will be particularly helpful to you, but I am still on the fence too. My son is fully vaccinated. I don't regret anything, nor do I feel its caused any issues. I know that it can affect the immune system in some cases, but I can't say thats true for him.

My daughter had her first lot. If I'm honest, I researched and the pro's of vaccinating hugely outweighed the cons. I would like to have though things like whooping cough etc would be rare enough not to catch, but I know a lot choose not to vaccinate so I did worry about her catching it, and meningitis (I have known of a lot of meningitis cases, either people losing limbs, or it being fatal) so I chose to protect her. 

I haven't given her the meningitis booster yet, not the MMR, because the vaccination thing just keeps popping up, and I keep changing my mind. I'm yet to find an actual unbiased study, and the only one that I can go by is the WHO, which is pro vax. I do want her to be vaccinated deep down, but I don't know, I just see all of the anti vax conversations and it worries me. 

If DD ever got ill, be it serious, or something not quite so serious like mumps. I would never ever forgive myself. My mother in law has been left semi blind from mumps, so I have that reason to worry too. either way, vax or no vax, I worry! 

I do wonder though, if vaccinations completely stopped, what would happen? Would the diseases come back? 

Also, is there any information about the negatives of not vaccinating? Like serious illness, and side effects from illness's, death from preventable illness's etc??

I am curious, and I often want to ask, but I know people are so passionate that it causes a debate, which I don't like, but I find researching on my own you find very pro, or very anti, and never unbiased.

Sorry for the long post!!!


----------



## stardust599

Pikkle said:


> I don't think this will be particularly helpful to you, but I am still on the fence too. My son is fully vaccinated. I don't regret anything, nor do I feel its caused any issues. I know that it can affect the immune system in some cases, but I can't say thats true for him.
> 
> My daughter had her first lot. If I'm honest, I researched and the pro's of vaccinating hugely outweighed the cons. I would like to have though things like whooping cough etc would be rare enough not to catch, but I know a lot choose not to vaccinate so I did worry about her catching it, and meningitis (I have known of a lot of meningitis cases, either people losing limbs, or it being fatal) so I chose to protect her.
> 
> I haven't given her the meningitis booster yet, not the MMR, because the vaccination thing just keeps popping up, and I keep changing my mind. I'm yet to find an actual unbiased study, and the only one that I can go by is the WHO, which is pro vax. I do want her to be vaccinated deep down, but I don't know, I just see all of the anti vax conversations and it worries me.
> 
> If DD ever got ill, be it serious, or something not quite so serious like mumps. I would never ever forgive myself. My mother in law has been left semi blind from mumps, so I have that reason to worry too. either way, vax or no vax, I worry!
> 
> I do wonder though, if vaccinations completely stopped, what would happen? Would the diseases come back?
> 
> Also, is there any information about the negatives of not vaccinating? Like serious illness, and side effects from illness's, death from preventable illness's etc??
> 
> I am curious, and I often want to ask, but I know people are so passionate that it causes a debate, which I don't like, but I find researching on my own you find very pro, or very anti, and never unbiased.
> 
> Sorry for the long post!!!

It is hard to find unbiased information. I have however found some facts and statistics which helped me make my decision -

Rubella -

Pre-Vaccine 1964-1965
2,100 infant deaths caused by Rubella in US
11,250 miscarriages directly linked to Rubella in US
20,000 infants were left with CRS syndrome including 11,600 left deaf, 3580 blind and 1,800 mentally handicapped

Post vaccine 2001-2004 there have only been 4 cases


Whooping cough

Prevaccine 9000 deaths per year in the US
From 2001-2008 (post vaccine) there were only 181 death in total. Whooping cough is still common in children and babies but as most have been vaccinated it is usually mild. Unvaccinated children do not have the antibodies to fight off this very dangerous disease and are likely to end up very ill or dead.

Polio

Prevaccination in 1988 there were 350,000 cases. Post vaccine in 2008 there were only 1604 cases. Common complications of polio include irreversible paralysis and death.


More on the article is here
https://podblack.com/2011/07/the-great-vaccination-debate-infographic/


The diseases would most certainly come back as devastating as ever if everyone choose not to vax. At the moment we are protected by herd immunity as a large percentage of the population are vaccinated. We can't rely on herd immunity any longer as each year less and less parents choose to vaccinate.


----------



## Nicoleoleole

We chose NOT to vaccinate. 

The risks of vaccines outweigh the disease itself, imo. 

There are toxins and metals that permanently weaken the immune system. Even if vaccines were proven to work, they've compromised your immune system already.
They give the same 'side effects' as the real disease (take the flu, for instance). So you just got the disease, PLUS toxins. 
They've taken plenty of vaccines off shelves because they realize they're wrong and it causes the disease (like hpv)-- or they're greedy and keep it going regardless (once again, like hpv). 

I'll update more later, as I'm NAK, :lol:


----------



## Pikkle

Sorry, just another quick question!

When I have researched, most studies and evidence are American, and I am in the UK ... does that make any difference?? Are the ingredients etc all the same? OH found something somewhere saying no metals (I think) are in vaccines anymore in the UK?


----------



## Pikkle

Nicoleoleole said:


> We chose NOT to vaccinate.
> 
> The risks of vaccines outweigh the disease itself, imo.
> 
> There are toxins and metals that permanently weaken the immune system. Even if vaccines were proven to work, they've compromised your immune system already.
> They give the same 'side effects' as the real disease (take the flu, for instance). So you just got the disease, PLUS toxins.
> They've taken plenty of vaccines off shelves because they realize they're wrong and it causes the disease (like hpv)-- or they're greedy and keep it going regardless (once again, like hpv).
> 
> I'll update more later, as I'm NAK, :lol:

Also, really just curious so thought I would ask ... I can see that there are lots of risks that would lead you to choosing not to vaccinate, and you have listed the risks of the vaccines there. Do you consider what you would be risking by actually getting a disease, EG Becoming handicapped, losing sight, hearing etc, losing limbs in cases like meningitis, or even death? Thats what scares me, if my kids were to get ill, and I could have prevented those things by protecting them and 'risking' a weakened immune system and toxins etc, would I ever forgive myself?

I also wondered, about some of the studies I have seen about the immune system, and wondered how accurate it is. The one I saw, they didn't have the same amount of vaccinated children in the study as unvaccinated children, and you had no background on the children, i.e were they breastfed, where they live (city or rural) what kind of diet etc they have (all which have an impact on the immune system) 

I'm only asking this questions to try and get a clearer picture, as I'm neither pro nor anti right now, I just have all of these questions in my head, and they're difficult to get an answer from! Just whenever I see a study, I end up questioning it (like the one I have written above) as I never feel there's enough information to make (in my mind) a definate conclusion

Hope all that makes sense!!! Hope the OP is ok with me hijacking and asking questions too!


----------



## Sam292

I found this article quite interesting https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/26/health/26vaccine.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

We are very "crunchy" when it comes to most things but none of my choices have been made without A LOT of research. I have found lots of sound evidence that has led me to be pro vaccine. My son will receive all of them. 

I have spent time in an Ethiopian hospital, witnessing children dying of preventable diseases, I feel that there have been a lot of bad studies which have later been dis-proven which have caused confusion and worry in parents when it comes to vaccines. I think we are lucky to have these things available to us and the benefits far outweigh the risks.


----------



## Pikkle

OK! Thank you! Just curious again ... why are all the articles american?? does it make a difference? 

Also Sam as you said, you have seen children in Ethiopa dying ... I am massively pro vax in the developing world ... I'm not sure why I have no doubt about the fact that they are absolutely essential to protect those kids, but I don't know what to do about my own children. Maybe its just the difference in medicine

This is really not anything to do with vaccinations really, but I've always wondered .... when diabetics inject with insulin ... do their injections have any of the same kind of things in?! (just random, but always wondered!)


----------



## nma

Am NAK so short reply but chose not to vaccinate both my children. This book may be of interest Raising a Vaccine Free Child [Paperback]
Wendy Lydall


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

Wow, lots of discussion since I checked in yesterday, and interesting that there are a few of you who have chosen not to vaccinate. I might check out the book by Wendy Lyall. 

I'm currently reading 'The Vaccine Guide - Making An Informed Choice' by Randall Neustaedter. It's quite an old book, so some of the info on specific vaccines is bound to be out of date, but is very interesting none-the-less. It's also very USA-centric, but from what I can gather, most if not all of the vaccines are the same in the UK.

I really think this is one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make (not that I'm making it on my own but I have to form an opinion) and I know that I will be feeling deeply worried whichever way we go.


----------



## Kassy

I'm in to natural parenting, However i think it's vital to immunise your children. The risks of them not being is scary to even think about. I'd rather my baby be poorly for a short while rather then her catching something like measles/mumps ect, suffering for a long time and possibly having complications from the diseases afterwards.:cry:​


----------



## hot tea

I have not vaccinated my son whatsoever. I do not believe on herd immunity, and it makes me angry when people try and shove it down my throat.
I have plenty of links that support my views as well.

There are pros and cons to each side. I chose the lesser of two evils, in my family. 

I also breastfed my son up unti last month. He is well over three. If you need any info please feel free to contact me.


----------



## hot tea

Kassy said:


> I'm in to natural parenting, However i think it's vital to immunise your children. The risks of them not being is scary to even think about. I'd rather my baby be poorly for a short while rather then her catching something like measles/mumps ect, suffering for a long time and possibly having complications from the diseases afterwards.:cry:​

Immunization have been linked to SIDs.


----------



## stardust599

hot tea said:


> Kassy said:
> 
> 
> I'm in to natural parenting, However i think it's vital to immunise your children. The risks of them not being is scary to even think about. I'd rather my baby be poorly for a short while rather then her catching something like measles/mumps ect, suffering for a long time and possibly having complications from the diseases afterwards.:cry:​
> 
> Immunization have been linked to SIDs.Click to expand...

Before you start spouting utter bullshit just to worry and frighten thousands of Mummies I suggest you do some research first.

Immunisations have been proven to REDUCE the risk of SIDS actually. There have been HUNDREDS of studies disproving the link between SIDS and vaccines. Here are some valid, unbiased studies-

https://www.bmj.com/content/322/7290/822 - interesting quote_ "Results: After all potential confounding factors were controlled for, immunisation uptake was strongly associated with a lower risk of SIDS (odds ratio 0.45 (95% confidence interval 0.24 to 0.85))."_

https://jdc325.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/vaccination-coincidence-and-sids/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16945457

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342

https://sids-network.org/experts/immunize.htm


All different studies, all with similar outcomes - vaccinations do not affect the rate of SIDS or vaccinated children have a lower risk of SIDS.

So now that we have that cleared up I suggest you do some research on the risks you are exposing your child to. The risk of dying or serious harm or long-term affects from one of these diseases which we can easily vaccinate against is VERY real to your child. I will find some statistics and post them in a minute.


----------



## hot tea

Wow, please calm down! I have done plenty of research. I actually posted a thread in here with some good ones earlier today. I am not even going to bother clicking those links, talk about rudeness.


----------



## stardust599

Copied from my earlier post -
It is hard to find unbiased information. I have however found some facts and statistics which helped me make my decision -

Rubella -

Pre-Vaccine 1964-1965
2,100 infant deaths caused by Rubella in US
11,250 miscarriages directly linked to Rubella in US
20,000 infants were left with CRS syndrome including 11,600 left deaf, 3580 blind and 1,800 mentally handicapped

Post vaccine 2001-2004 there have only been 4 cases


Whooping cough

Prevaccine 9000 deaths per year in the US
From 2001-2008 (post vaccine) there were only 181 death in total. Whooping cough is still common in children and babies but as most have been vaccinated it is usually mild. Unvaccinated children do not have the antibodies to fight off this very dangerous disease and are likely to end up very ill or dead.

Polio

Prevaccination in 1988 there were 350,000 cases. Post vaccine in 2008 there were only 1604 cases. Common complications of polio include irreversible paralysis and death.


More on the article is here
https://podblack.com/2011/07/the-grea...e-infographic/


The diseases would most certainly come back as devastating as ever if everyone choose not to vax. At the moment we are protected by herd immunity as a large percentage of the population are vaccinated. We can't rely on herd immunity any longer as each year less and less parents choose to vaccinate.

Did you also know that 18 unvaccinated children around the world die every HOUR from measles. Mostly children under the age of 5. 5% of measles death are in developed countries such as Canada, the UK and the USA. Other complications include permanent eye damage (usually blindness), pneumonia and paralysis.
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/


----------



## hot tea

You believe in herd immunity. Yoy believe that without those vaccinations, polio would still exist commonly. I do not. All those links support herd immunity.

Look, instead of trying to shove what I consider bullshit down MY throat, be respectful. We get it, you are pro vaccines. Not everyone is and I have PLENTY of links I can throw left, right and center just as you can.


----------



## hot tea

Here are some very compelling graphs. 
https://genesgreenbook.com/resources/obamsawin/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf

Here is where this PDF came from:
https://genesgreenbook.com/content/proof-vaccines-didnt-save-us

Oh as a side note... Those graphs are completely unbiased. They are based completely on fact and history. This link also covers infant mortality rates, etc etc.


----------



## Pikkle

Hot tea (if you don't mind me asking)

The graphs, even the graphs for the illness's that there were no vaccines for showed that the rates of recorded illness went up ... Just wondering why? as I am trying so hard to come to a conclusion that I am happy with, and whenever I read studies (pro or anti) it always leaves me asking a few questions as I'm still not entirely sure what to think.

This whole thing just really bothers me :( I find also that when I do ask it either causes debate, or makes my decision even harder, because pro and anti vax opinions are always written very 'straight to the point' and I think I understand both pro and anti reasons, I just don't have my own opinion!


----------



## hot tea

There is absolutely no right or wrong opinion, andTHAT is the kicker here!! Ladies get so uptight about this stuff, when there is no right thing! Unless you believe whole heartedly in the herd immunity THEORY... Then you absolutely have to immunize asap.

Imo the best thing you can do if you are unsure is to wait to vaccinate. Wait until your child is older and the side effects decrease drastically.even just waiting a year is a good idea. Vaccinating a six week old infant does seem a bit obsurd to me, especially if you are breastfeeding.

It is all based on pros and cons. If you will be travelling a lot, live in a third world country, etc, then perhaps vaccination risks would outweigh the cons. I cannot help but roll my eyes when either side gets their panties in a bunch. 

You can also choose to vaccinate only certain things, the ones you deem important and necessary.


----------



## hot tea

Like... Why the hell would a woman who does not believe in herd immunity, because there is absolutely no solid evidence saying it is true, when there is plenty of evidence to prove otherwise, go ahead and inject vaccine after vaccine aer vaccine into her newborn??

And why the hell should we who believe in a whole other, and just as valid theory, be ridiculed? I do not believe I am endangering anyone by allowing my son to create his own natural immunity in a clean environment!


----------



## Pikkle

Well my eldest is vaccinated anyway, because I was young and had no idea it was an option to or not to! As with my daughter, she had her first lot, because although I'd started to think about it, when she was so tiny I really wasn't comfortable with the risk of some things.
She missed her meningitis booster, and MMR. She is 20 months now, and I'm still breastfeeding. The MMR I am happy to wait for, but the meningitis one does play on my mind. Have just seen cases of that particular strain, and the effects its had on people afterwards, and I feel irresponsible (if thats the right word) for not protecting her. If the vaccine conversation comes up with friends, I am ashamed when I say she isn't 'protected' ... which is why I worry about whether my decision is right.

I don't know about the herd immunity thing, again, I can read and article backing the theory, and the way its written, the facts that are produced etc make it very believable, then you read the other side of the story again, and again, the way it is written and the facts you get, make that very believable too (hope this is making sense!)

Again, ladies on here post both pro and anti vaccine links, which is great to read ... but again, I will read one link and be like, yep I need to vaccinate! then read the other and be like, nope, I don't! 

The problem is you can't 'take back' giving a vaccine, if you change your mind, I understand that. However, if you're child does fall ill with something that can (I believe) be a serious illness in some cases, you also can't 'take back' your earlier decision not to vaccinate .... 

I'm having sleepless nights over this!!!!!!


----------



## hot tea

I have thought about this as well. It is not an easy choice you are making for your child. It isnt your body, so the fact you feel so responsible is very admirable. You clearly care deeply and seem to have a lot of common sense. I think that is all you can really do, you know? 

How I made my decision was... If my son developed polio (yeah, what are the odds??) and I did not vaccinate him, could I live with myself? If I did vaccinate my son, and he died shortly after, could I forgive myself? Which is the worst of two evils? I decided on the former. That is all you can really do.


----------



## Pikkle

I think I get what you're saying there. 

If it were a case of protecting them, and the ingredients of the vaccine not being what they are, then I'd do it. Why not! But, its the ingredients and possible side effects that do worry me. 

So I guess my reason for being so undecided is I desperately want her to be protected. I don't want her to get a cold, never mind anything worse! But I dont' want anything serious to happen to her either. 

I also then think 'I'm vaccinated, I'm ok' (aghh that horrible saying!) but remember that I'm just one person, and I'm sure other people are and are not ok. (although I don't know anybody who claims to be damaged by vaccines?!) 

Also, because people are choosing not to vaccinate, the illness's over here are in a lot of the schools, so the likelihood is probably a little higher now.

To be honest, If it was fully my decision, I wouldnt take her. Its OH. He really wants her vaccinated. He's a clever man, he has done his research, but his conclusion is that he'd prefer to vaccinate.

Ahh ... its a tough one!


----------



## waitandsee

these are all very dangerous ideas, and align well with the other doubts on basic knowledge that are so in fashion these times. It makes me very sad to read all of this, and I just wish that most of you people would question more the credibility of the sources where you get your information from. 
I hope your kids are going to be OK.


----------



## hot tea

Are you saying for those who do not immunize?? All mine are based on government released statistics. How offensive. I hope your child doesn't die from a compromised immune system because you gave your infant too many vaccines at one time.


----------



## Happy2BDaddy

Wow, I knew this thread would probably generate some discussion, but perhaps not as heated as it has been! It is clearly a very emotive subject, and opinions are often very polarised.
We still haven't reached any conclusions, and I'm going to carry on reading (got a new book today... https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Doctor-About-Childrens-Vaccinations/dp/0446555711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315683009&sr=8-1).
Thanks to all those who have expressed their advice and opinions here... but those who are pro-vaccination, please try not to get too personal in your comments about those who choose not to vaccinate.
We are all trying to make the best decisions for our children, and any decision not to vaccinate is not made lightly.


----------



## Nicoleoleole

waitandsee said:


> these are all very dangerous ideas, and align well with the other doubts on basic knowledge that are so in fashion these times. It makes me very sad to read all of this, and I just wish that most of you people would question more the credibility of the sources where you get your information from.
> I hope your kids are going to be OK.

Is this to those who don't vaccinate?! :shock: How rude.


----------



## patch2006uk

Vaccinating against deadly diseases is a no-brainer. I would rather a vaccinated child than a dead child. Sorry if you don't agree, but I have research, science and medicine on my side. 

Now, vaccinating against chicken pox and seasonal flu, I don't agree with. The body needs to get sick occasionally. If the disease is unpleasant but short lived, I don't see the need to vaccinate. 

Scientists aren't out to poison babies. They want to save lives. And they do.


----------



## fluffpuffin

Even if you decide not to immunize your child, and they really do catch one of these illnesses you can still get the doctors to give your child the vaccine that contain the antibodies at the time. for example if you may have been exposed to tetanus, rabies, measles etc.they then give you the antibodies for that illness so your body can fight the disease. 

So the risks of not having the jabs at an early age needn't be that high. Also when the risks of getting one particular illness increases, i.e. a measles outbreak you can still reconsider and get the jabs done.


----------



## Pikkle

Random Question (again!)

Is there any way at all, that you can have some sort of 'immunity' test done?!

You know when you're preg, and get the blood tests and it tells you what you are or aren't immune too, can you have that done on a baby?

Just wondering if DD would show that she is immune to what I am immune to due to BFing etc ... That would make this decision easier if so!!!


----------



## discoclare

Pikkle said:


> Random Question (again!)
> 
> Is there any way at all, that you can have some sort of 'immunity' test done?!
> 
> You know when you're preg, and get the blood tests and it tells you what you are or aren't immune too, can you have that done on a baby?
> 
> Just wondering if DD would show that she is immune to what I am immune to due to BFing etc ... That would make this decision easier if so!!!

Of course you could get your child a blood test and see what antibodies they have to a range of diseases. For example I had a screen myself to check for antibodies to the following: measles, mumps, rubella, parvovirus B19, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis A, chicken pox (VZV), Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, herpes simplex virus, um I think that was it! And then in pregnancy of course I had the screening for antibodies to HIV, Hep B and rubella. Anyway you could have something like that done on your child (privately). But breastfeeding won't have provided enough antibodies to be protective against contracting the disease. She won't be immune to the same things as you (what age is she BTW? as maternal antibody decays over age), screening over a large panel, though she may have low level antibodies to some of the things you are immune to.


----------



## Pikkle

discoclare said:


> Pikkle said:
> 
> 
> Random Question (again!)
> 
> Is there any way at all, that you can have some sort of 'immunity' test done?!
> 
> You know when you're preg, and get the blood tests and it tells you what you are or aren't immune too, can you have that done on a baby?
> 
> Just wondering if DD would show that she is immune to what I am immune to due to BFing etc ... That would make this decision easier if so!!!
> 
> Of course you could get your child a blood test and see what antibodies they have to a range of diseases. For example I had a screen myself to check for antibodies to the following: measles, mumps, rubella, parvovirus B19, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis A, chicken pox (VZV), Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, herpes simplex virus, um I think that was it! And then in pregnancy of course I had the screening for antibodies to HIV, Hep B and rubella. Anyway you could have something like that done on your child (privately). But breastfeeding won't have provided enough antibodies to be protective against contracting the disease. She won't be immune to the same things as you (what age is she BTW? as maternal antibody decays over age), screening over a large panel, though she may have low level antibodies to some of the things you are immune to.Click to expand...

Oh cool, thanks! How would I find out about doing that?! I guess if I knew what she was immune too etc it would be nice to know.

My friend is unvaxxed, she is 25. When she had her test done in pregnancy, she was immune to Measles and Mumps! 

LO is 21 months :) (still BF though)


----------



## discoclare

^suppose you could ask your GP if they'll do anything for you (even if there's a charge) as that would be the cheapest option. I suspect they'll say no! Travel clinics will often offer antibody tests for things like chicken pox, measles etc (so people can check to see if they have immunity and then choose if they want to get the vaccine if not). The travel clinic at the hospital I work out offers some antibody testing. Failing that you could just google for a private paediatric / vaccination clinic near you and give them an email / call to see what they would charge.


----------

