# The steroid junkies' perfectly unscientific medical trial



## petitpas

Hi, I thought I would start a thread where we can follow those of us who have suffered recurrent miscarriages and are now trying steroid (or IVIG or intralipids) treatment.

In future, hopefully we can show a good success rate and encourage others who are starting on this difficult path.

I'll start with myself: 

Petitpas: 5 losses - started prednisolone Aug 2011 - SUCCESS! BABY BOY :crib:!

Mon_n_john: 35 - 5 losses - started intralipids Aug 2011 - SUCCESS! BABY GIRL:crib:!

Beachlover - on prednisolone since Dec 2011 -SUCCESS! BABY GIRL:crib:!

LeeC - 10 angels - started prednisolone Aug 2011 - SUCCESS! BABY BOY! :crib:!

Doodar - ICSI with steroids starting Sep 2011 - SUCCESS! BABY GIRL! :crib:

Lamburai - started prednisolone Aug 11 - sadly one more loss followed by more prednisolone and intralipids. SUCCESS! BABY GIRL! :crib:

Padbrat - 6 losses - balanced translocation - on steroids for 7th pregnancy - SUCCESS! BABY BOY! :crib:

Myjourney2011 - 4 losses - on Mr S's plan

Leylak - 1 loss - Hashimoto's - on dexamethasone SUCCESS! BABY GIRL! :crib:

Lawa - :yipee: SUCCESS! :yipee: 7 MC then baby born 11/7/11 with 20mg pred from BFP :crib:

BFPseeker - 3 losses - on Mr S's plan since Oct 2011

Filipenko - on steroids from Nov 2011 - baby sadly didn't make it due to a trisomy :cry: - SUCCESS! BABY GIRL:crib:!


Hopeful23456 - on steroids from Nov 2011 - SUCCESS! BOY AND GIRL TWINS! :crib::crib:

Lisacn -2 losses - on prednisolone since Dec 2011

Lexi - 3 losses - started prednisolone on Prof Q's plan - chemical in Feb 2012 :cry: - SUCCESS! BABY GIRL:crib:!

Tansey - 3 losses and ltttc - on Prof Q's programme - SUCCESS! BABY BOY! :crib:

Amber3 - ttc with prednisone - adopted baby girl :cloud9:


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## Mon_n_john

Good idea Petitpas! 

I am 35 - 5 losses (2 miscarriages and 3 chemicals) - started intralipid Aug. 2011 as well.


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## petitpas

Hi Mon! :wave: you are now on the list :thumbup:


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## Brookegarrett

Good luck ladies


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## beachlover1

ill be keen to watch this! ive had 3 losses, 2 then my son and now another one!

I have an autoimmume prob and have been referred to my local hospital where Professor Quenby has a clinic. she is going to biopsy me for NKc and maybe start me on steriods!

Im afraid to take steroids...whats the risk of cleft palate etc in the baby? I have daily steroid drops for my eyes (the autoimmume prob) and was always warned against taking them when preg.....well sorryi dont have a choice!!

What dose are you girlies on of Prednisolone? til when?

Big hugs and good luck!!!! xx


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## petitpas

I'm on 25mg orally every day from when I confirm ovulation (temping) until about 11dpo when an early test should be able to tell me whether I'm pregnant. Once pregnancy is confirmed I am to continue until 12 weeks and then gradually wean off.

There is a risk of cleft palate, but Mr S claimed none of his patients have suffered a case :shrug:
To be honest, to me it's not the worst risk in the world and personally, I would be happy with a baby even with a cleft palate. It is something that can easily be treated in infancy and doesn't majorly worry me. Obviously, everyone has their own idea on what risks they can accept.

If you're interested in reading up more, here is a link to a study on the subject:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11091360


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## beachlover1

thats what i thought when my eye guy was giving me the big low down!!.....there are far worse things that could be up with bubs!!  and 25mg is pretty low dose too. 

I really hope it works out for you ASAP!!!! fingers crossed for a BFP xxx


PS.....i see you are buddies with Lamburai??? i remember her from TTC after my last MCs a year or so back!! any joy with her yet? x


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## Mon_n_john

No steroids for me. My doctor said I don't need them :shrug: Go figure.


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## petitpas

Mon, maybe that's because you're on the big boys already? :winkwink:

Unfortunately, Lambs has had a similar story to mine. Hopefully she'll be popping in here sometime to add herself to the list and then register as a success story!


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## Lamburai1703

Howdy. I do remember you beachlover. I have now had 7 losses and joining the steroid band wagon when i'm ready.


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## petitpas

Oooh, there you are! Was about to text you but might get my knitting out now instead...


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## beachlover1

hey there!!! god, thats awful for you!!! im so sorry to hear that, i remember you had your second at the same time as my second......big hugs!! have you had the NK testing too then? 

whats the story with you? x

I started steroids today for my eye condition, autoimmune and just for 7 weeks, this week im on 40mg. Im freaked out after reading the side effects!!! that was a pile of 8 tablets ;-(


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## LeeC

Hello All. Glad I've found the thread at last, thanks for the link Lambs.
Day 2 of steroids for me, looking forward to the moon face lol... x


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## petitpas

Today was day 3 for me - it was difficult! From lunchtime I started buzzing again and just could not stop. It was a bit embarrassing as I was with a friend and hot all hyped up on him. Thankfully, I'd given him some warning. Then I started having hot flushes. It got so bad that I had to leave the small well-aired shop I was in as I felt like I was burning up, really uncomfortable. I then picked a text argument with DH and cried - nice! :blush: Hyper, buzzing, yapping, hot flushes and moodiness all in one day. I hope my body gets used to this soon as I'm not planning on giving up just yet!

How is everyone else getting on with this?


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> Today was day 3 for me - it was difficult! From lunchtime I started buzzing again and just could not stop. It was a bit embarrassing as I was with a friend and hot all hyped up on him. Thankfully, I'd given him some warning. Then I started having hot flushes. It got so bad that I had to leave the small well-aired shop I was in as I felt like I was burning up, really uncomfortable. I then picked a text argument with DH and cried - nice! :blush: Hyper, buzzing, yapping, hot flushes and moodiness all in one day. I hope my body gets used to this soon as I'm not planning on giving up just yet!
> 
> How is everyone else getting on with this?

You poor thing! I hope those side effects improve quickly. I've had no side effect on intralipid.


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## Carmina29

Hi I need some advice. My name is Carmin, I have had 4 miscarriages and recently I was diagnosed with High NK cells. My level was 11.2 % and I was recommended intralipids combined with steroids. My problem is where to go for the treatment?. Do you need to go to a special clinic for the treatment with intralipds or your regular OB can order them from the farmacy? I don't know what to do. 

I cannot find any doctor in Pennyslvania to do this kind of treatment in office. I appreciate your help.


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## petitpas

Hi Carmina, sorry to welcome you here :hugs:
Unfortunately, I don't know how things work in the States but I expect that you would need to take the intralipids under medical supervision.
Who ordered the tests for you? Maybe they can help you out?
You could also try taking your confirmation of diagnosis and suggested treatment to your local doctor and ask whether they can prescribe it to you? It's a bit tricky as not many doctors are willing to dabble in immunotherapy as I think many feel out of their depth.


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## Mon_n_john

Carmina29 said:


> Hi I need some advice. My name is Carmin, I have had 4 miscarriages and recently I was diagnosed with High NK cells. My level was 11.2 % and I was recommended intralipids combined with steroids. My problem is where to go for the treatment?. Do you need to go to a special clinic for the treatment with intralipds or your regular OB can order them from the farmacy? I don't know what to do.
> 
> I cannot find any doctor in Pennyslvania to do this kind of treatment in office. I appreciate your help.

I'm sorry for all your losses Carmina. Your cells are actually in the normal range. Above 12 is what's bad (I have 20.6%). To get treatment you need either a reproductive immonoligist or reproductive endocronoligist. I suggest the RE as many insurances won't pay for RI. The intralipid is an intravenous treatment as must be done with medical monitoring in a doctor's office. Good luck!


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## Carmina29

Thank you Mon_n_john and Petitpas for your answer. I was told that 9.9 % is consider high and mine are elevated. I was offered IVF but we refused since we want to give a try on our own again. Dr. told us that IVF is an option but not absolute necessary in my case and the INTRALIPIDS & Steroids is a good treatment to help. In this two months I go crazzy because I don't know where to get the IL since my RE does not belive in NK cells theory.I even considered to go on Steroids alone but I was a bit scarred for the adverse effects and I'm a bit scarred to TTC again without any treatment. 

I'm very happy to find this board. Now Mon_n_John you really have point -is 11% really really high? it is possible this level is not so high to require a treatment and so, maybe I don't even need the intralipids at all. Now I wonder we both talk about Peripherial Blood NK cells or Uterine Lining Biopsy for NK cells. 
In my case I have the blood drawn and send it to the lab. Just want to make sure. 

I looked all over the internet for the peripherial NK cells reference range but I cannot find anything. Glad I found this discussion board.
....
I really really appreciate your replies. Thank so much. It feels so great to know I'm not alone here. Hugs to you all!


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## Mon_n_john

My blood draw was peripheral as well. Most of the ranges you see online are peripheral blood. I don't think 11% is really high based on what I have read. Heck, as far as I know they are considered normal, even if in the high range. What part of the country do you live in? I'll see if I can find an RE for you that does intralipids.

Fair warning, it's not covered by insurance and each treatment costs me $750 so it's a bit pricey.


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## petitpas

My doc has two treatment levels dependant on how high your levels are. Mine he considered high so I am on steroids. Had my levels been very high I would have been offered ivig or intralipids, too. So over here steroids-only are considered the less risky treatment. And it's cheaper. 
By the sounds of it, you really need consultation with a specialist to answer your questions and arrange your treatment. None of these treatments are without risks so should only be taken under medical supervision.

Wishing you good luck xxx


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## Carmina29

Mon_n_john said:


> My blood draw was peripheral as well. Most of the ranges you see online are peripheral blood. I don't think 11% is really high based on what I have read. Heck, as far as I know they are considered normal, even if in the high range. What part of the country do you live in? I'll see if I can find an RE for you that does intralipids.
> 
> Fair warning, it's not covered by insurance and each treatment costs me $750 so it's a bit pricey.

Many many many thanks. You made me feel so much better. You took a stone out of my heart!


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## Mon_n_john

Carmina29 said:


> Mon_n_john said:
> 
> 
> My blood draw was peripheral as well. Most of the ranges you see online are peripheral blood. I don't think 11% is really high based on what I have read. Heck, as far as I know they are considered normal, even if in the high range. What part of the country do you live in? I'll see if I can find an RE for you that does intralipids.
> 
> Fair warning, it's not covered by insurance and each treatment costs me $750 so it's a bit pricey.
> 
> Many many many thanks. You made me feel so much better. You took a stone out of my heart!Click to expand...

Aww, no problem. Maybe you should get a second professional opinion to see if you even need the intralipid. Best of luck to you!


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## LeeC

Hi Pip.

Yep, I had all those sides on my last cycle of steroids, was really bad first few days taking 20mg, felt very manic and irritable. This month, I was VERY hyper first day, had 3 hours sleep and was extremely irritable with dh too, I think it calmed down slightly after a week last time so hoping it settles this time too.
I'm testing Sun/Mon with an EPT so I can get the hell off them, I'm sort of worried about doubling the dose and thinking if I get BFP I will stagger it for a few days to build up in my system.
The joys.

Keep me posted on how you're feeling and we can compare notes.

And yeah it's not s bad if you have pre-warned people. Quenby said I had to make people close to me aware so thet could recognise any dramatic manic or depressive episodes. I've only told dh this time though.

Catch up soon x.


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## LeeC

Hello to everyone else. Mon n Jon, Carmina and Beachlover. 

I'm looking forward to sharing all of our experiences, is everyone on prednisolone?

Good luck to all xxx.


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## beachlover1

Girls, my big problem so far with this prednisolone is heaving on the taste!!!!! I am started on 40mg, thats 8 tablets! luckily im only on 40 for a week, then 30 for 2 weeks and slowly down off it! 

No matter how bad the side effects get....DONT just stop them!!!! its dangerous, you must slowly taper down off them.

I know im not in this thread yet for steriod in pregnancy, but i have a suspicion i will be after i see Prof Quenby in a few weeks. The whole reason im on them is because i have to have eye surgery in 2 weeks due to an autoimmune prob :-(

i wonder if they will beat any killer cells up anyway? if they did do they come back? im guessing they do.

wells heres to being a mad woman with hot flushes.......nothing new there then ;-)


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## beachlover1

Mon.....did you have the womb biopsy? or did they do a blood test for the NKc?


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## Carmina29

OMG LeeC you really have some reactions going on there. I wish you good luck with the treatment & have the pregnancy test positive soon!!!

The sides effects to the medicine scares me the most but I see some of you take it for a while. I guess this side effects last until the body gets used with the medication but I wonder how a pregnant lady may feel on Prednisolone, since you have to deal with raging pregnancy hormones. I guess will be hard to taper down during pregnancy. I have so many questions in my head but I guess sometimes is better not to think so much and just try the treatment.


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## Mon_n_john

Beachlover, I only had the NK blood test, no biopsy. 

And I'm pretty sure I'm the only one here not taking steroids. Doc says I don't need them.


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## petitpas

Lee, same here: I am planning on testing Monday, I think. 
Today has been much better. Maybe because I have just been for the most amazing massage ever and now I am totally chilled :smug:
I booked it through groupon. Obviously I had to tell the lady I'm on steroids and why. She was very understanding as she lost her first three pregnancies before going on to have three children.

I think that in terms of pills I'm lucky as I only need to take 1x 25mg/day. I don't even need to up the dose when I'm pregnant! At least I don't think so? Hm, I'm going to dig out my instructions when I get home :D
I hope I'm right as I am busy enough remembering my five pills every night (pregnacare, extra folic acid, extra vitamin D, extra omega 3, baby aspirin) as well as my progesterone suppository.

I am quite proud to be able to swallow all 5 evening pills in one gulp. Hands up who else has become a druggie pro!


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## beachlover1

defor a druggie pro ;-) I have those little section pots with week days on and each week i count out my pills.....I had 12 for brekkie, inc my aspirin and high dose folic acid 

Im bloody rattling!!!


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## mandy1971

good luck everyone.. x


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## padbrat

hey all... found you at last!!

Intro: 6 losses - usually 11ish weeks. Believed to be down to a genetic issues that kills male babies... tests on my last 2 showed I was having boys and they died because they inherited my translocation.

My Obs is awesome and has now agreed that I will have 25 mg predisdone (or however you spell it) lol to add to the aspirin, high dose folic acid, cyclogest and fragmin.... I haven't been tested for NK cells, but think my lovley Obs is just throwing everything at me to try and get a baby to stay! lol

Am off for treatment in Cyprus end of Oct... I will take the steriods 2 weeks before the treatment starts and then the day of the treatment I will start all of the other stuff (Cyclogest etc). Am currently on the thyroid meds, aspirin, high folic acid.


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## petitpas

Hi padbrat! :kiss:
I'm so excited about your treatment and love that your doctor is throwing everything at you just in case. It is going to work this time! xxx

PS: Time to change your status, maybe?


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## LeeC

I can't wait to hear the first success story on this thread and keeping my Fx'd for all us steroid junkies that there will be many more to follow.
Right, that's my midnight hour ramblings over, off for a 5 mile run to burn off this new found (if not inconvenient) energy :/
Lol...
x


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## padbrat

hehehe HUbby is also makingme go for a run today... he is a triathlete and phys mad... and has now decided that I shoukd be in peak physical shape for the treatment... urrghhhhhh. I would much rather slob on the sofa and eat cheesy puffs.

Not quite time for status change Pip.....


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## petitpas

Fair enough, pad :hugs:

My DH thinks the steroids are going to give me muscles. I've pointed out that they are corticosteroids, not anabolic ones :haha: 

Oh well, I might not be a runner but I am getting regular exercise now, too. Mr S said that I can continue with gentle exercise in my next pregnancy, which I am excessively pleased about. I've noticed that it really calms my mind down.


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## Lamburai1703

For what its worth, I have NEVER had any side effects from the prednisolone other than after coming off them I feel a bit poorly! Sort of like a cold is coming but it never develops into anything more than the snuffles. You manic people must be much more sensitive than me!


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## padbrat

Heavens ladies... he took me hill mountain biking for an hour and then weights... nothing like being thrown in the deep end...am knackered!


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## LeeC

Lambs. 

Very true. I suffer from bouts of mania although infrequent they stem from my anxiety and stress.
This is why my psych needs to monitor me. 
It does generally calm down after first week but I am a bit anxious for when I need to double up the dose but tbh if it means I get my 4eva baby it's worth it.

How is everyone doing?

X


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## Lamburai1703

Did you test today Lee?


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## LeeC

Lambs I'm holding off til Tomorrow which will put me at 10dpo.
Even though we weren't TTC, I'm still excited but not getting my hopes up x


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## petitpas

Silly me used my only 10miu test in the middle of the night. I don't feel pregnant, but I'm not 100% sure I'm 9dpo. I could be 8dpo and should really give it to 9 or 10dpo before I rule a pregnancy out completely. Grumble. Do I just not take my prednisolone in the morning based on my gut feeling and this morning (4.30am)'s negative? If only I had another 10miu to test with in the morning but I don't. I just popped into boots at the airport and they only had clearblue (50miu) and their own brand (?miu). Manic, me? :dohh:

Lee, I take it that you're going to pop your pill in the morning?


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## Mon_n_john

I understand your concern Petit but I would continue to take your medication as directed. I, for example, take progesterone from 3 DPO onwards. I do not discontinue it until I get a BFN at 14 DPO, even if my gut tells me other wise. I just don't want to have any what if thoughts you know? Speaking of which, I gotta go take that progesterone now lol!


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## LeeC

BFN this morning ladies so going to drop the prenisolone to 10mg today and test again Weds.
Still
Keeping my fx'd for you Pip. 
x


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## petitpas

Morning all! Sorry about the BFN, Lee :hugs:

Mon, I promise, I'm not trying to cheat! My directions are to test at 9 or 10dpo with an early test such as FRER. The aim is to stop the prednisolone as soon as possible if I'm not pregnant.

I was just being silly by not ordering new tests thinking I should use up what I have first. Well, I'm going to pick up an FRER later today so I know what's what for sure in the morning. I'm taking the pill today but will be able to stop tomorrow. Next month we'll be playing the same game but I hope Lee and I get to work on that moon face for a few months :D


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## Mon_n_john

Good luck Petit, please let us know how it goes!!!


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## LeeC

Yep, me too Pip, test asap and get the hell off the steroids, moon face and mania I can live without lol... ;)
Unless of course there is a BFP then it will all be worth it. I wouldn't even mind if I grew a tash lol xxx


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## beachlover1

well ladies, its day 6 of 40mg....and im feeling FINE!!! bit teary at times...but that might be because my sis came back off hols looking all tanned and blooming at 7 months preg!!!

anyway, Prof Quenby is going to do my womb biopsy late this month after i ovulate so lets see what happens....she said she will get a rough idea if theres killer cells present because if they are normal/high ish whilst on steroids then without they will be high (or something)

fingers crossed for the BFP (i never get one til im 13 DPO on a FRER)

xxxx


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## petitpas

Grumble, I only managed to get Sainsbury's own brand tests this evening. I took a test and it is not at all clear :( What I didn't realise when I bought it is that it is a blue dye test. I will take the second test in the morning and if it is the same or a bit clearer then I will stop the pills.

Lee, I'd be happy to be tash-tastic alongside you :D


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## Mon_n_john

How exciting Petit, I really hope it's a BFP for you!

As for me, I just ordered a box of FRER off Amazon. It'll be here in two days so that way I'm not tempted to test before then lol. Mind you, I'll only be 6 DPO at that point but since it's a box of 3 and I'm getting a blood test at 10 DPO that'll last me just long enough.


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## LeeC

Mon. Sorry if you've already answered this are you taking the steroids along with intralipids?
Good luck in getting your BFP x


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## petitpas

All negative here. Looking forward to the steroid withdrawal symptoms now :D


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## DMH1988

I've been on combination IVIG/steroid for about a year and a half. I was on them because of my autoimmune condition. The steroids along with progesterone only BC pills winded up me getting pregnant which wasn't planned due to my current state. We decided against taking it during my pregnancy and I developed ITP during my pregnancy and ultimately resulted in a loss at 27 weeks. She was small for gestational age and had no fluid left. I had no idea anything was wrong. It's been almost two months and so far my TPO antibodies are in the low 100's. That's dropped from 200's a week after delivery. The pregnancy seems to actually have "fixed" my condition.
Sept 7th I have another recheck so if they have dropped even more then we know some good has come of this terrible tragedy.

For those new to IVIG, its a bit of a pain because of the fact its like caro syrup and takes forever to infuse. I have a port-a-cath implant and am so glad. Also, I would recommend IV steroids over tablets. I would have 1 gram along with the IVIG. The only downside to IVIG is the occasional headache or phlebitis. However, it has almost no side effects compared to steroids which have some nasty side effects.


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## petitpas

DMH, thanks for dropping by! I am so sorry to hear about your loss, hon :hugs:
I don't know what ITP is or what TPO antibodies are, but I have heard that autoimmune diseases can calm down during pregnancy. Is your doctor expecting your levels to stay down or go back to their normal (bad) levels once your body has 'recovered' from the pregnancy?
I'll be crossing my fingers for you next week that everything continues to go well for you xxx


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## Mon_n_john

LeeC said:


> Mon. Sorry if you've already answered this are you taking the steroids along with intralipids?
> Good luck in getting your BFP x

No worries Lee! :hi: No, no steroids along with the intralipids. My specialist said I didn't need them.

The only things I do are:
1. prenatals and baby asprin 1 time a day
2. progesterone suppository from 3 DPO - 14 DPO (unless pregnant, then continue)
3. intralipid IV every 28 days


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## Mon_n_john

Petit, sorry about the BFN. At least you can stop taking the steroids now.

DMH, so sorry about your loss.


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## beachlover1

id agree with the auto immune thing going quiet in pregnancy...my eyes were perfect when i carried my son!!

sorry for the BFNS!!!!!....heres to next month xxxxx


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## DMH1988

Petitpas, thank you. ITP is idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura and TPO antibodies are thyroid peroxidase antibodies. Since my levels are still dropping even as the pregnancy hormones leave my body, we are hopeful they will stay that way. A pregnancy has the potential to reset my system or make it flare again. Maybe with my levels at normal he will be willing to try again. We shall see. :wacko:


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## petitpas

DMH, now that you spelled it out, I actually met a girl (in real life) a few months ago who suffered from thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura. Scary stuff!

Here's to hoping that you get that reset xxx


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## Doodar

I found you :yipee:

:hi: Ladies, I've been inivited over to join the steroid crew. I'm due to start steroids in about 2 weeks time, it's my first time using them. We are doing ICSI with Empirical Immune Treatment, Steroids,Aspirin,Estrogen and Clexane. Bring on those side effects Woohoo!


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## petitpas

Hi Doodar! :wave:

Mon, how are you getting on with your tww?


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> Hi Doodar! :wave:
> 
> Mon, how are you getting on with your tww?

Hi Petit! I am 7 DPO today and tested with FR. It sure looks negative but if you hold it just right you can see a very very light shadow. No pink so it could be an evap but then again, maybe not. I'll test again tomorrow morning. Can't wait to test again!:happydance:

I do have some symptoms but it's hard to pinpoint what is caused by the progesterone I take. I will say my boobs are huge and very veiny which is always a symptom for me. Fingers crossed!

How are you doing?


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## petitpas

Wonderful start, Mon! I'm hoping this is it for you and you blaze the way for us.
:happydance:Go Mon!:happydance:


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> Wonderful start, Mon! I'm hoping this is it for you and you blaze the way for us.
> :happydance:Go Mon!:happydance:

Thank you! Still no 2nd line today but that's OK, I have 5 more testing days ahead of me! :happydance: I will exude nothing but positivity from here on out!


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## petitpas

I hate to say it but 8dpo IS TOO EARLY! Then again, I always test early, too :shrug: just in case, right? :winkwink:
I'm keeping my fingers, toes and tongue crossed for that second line tomorrow fxfxfxfx


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> I hate to say it but 8dpo IS TOO EARLY! Then again, I always test early, too :shrug: just in case, right? :winkwink:
> I'm keeping my fingers, toes and tongue crossed for that second line tomorrow fxfxfxfx

You are right, it's too early. But if I am, I am just really curious as to how early it's visible on a FR. I just bought 6 more tests today so I am covered for the next 6 days. :thumbup:


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## petitpas

I keep thinking: why wait until 10dpo if I could know sooner? I don't want to miss the day the line appears!

Then again, I buy packs of 25 10miu ICs at a time so you can find me peeing several times a day :rofl:


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> I hate to say it but 8dpo IS TOO EARLY! Then again, I always test early, too :shrug: just in case, right? :winkwink:
> I'm keeping my fingers, toes and tongue crossed for that second line tomorrow fxfxfxfx

Petit, thank you SO much for crossing everything for me. It must have worked because... I got a 2nd line on my HPT today! :happydance:

I can't believe it, 9 DPO and I got a clear :bfp:! I sure hope this one is it and it sticks. Maybe my IV treatment worked after all!

:dust: to all of you, bring on those BFPs!


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## petitpas

That's brilliant news! You're our first guinea pig on this trial and I have a good feeling about us xxx


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> That's brilliant news! You're our first guinea pig on this trial and I have a good feeling about us xxx

Thank you! I think this immune treatment is brilliant. I'll do as many as they want, the heck with the fear of needles. I get a blood test on Tuesday to confirm pregnancy. I'll ask the doc at that point if I should get the intralipid done earlier than originally scheduled now that I'm pregnant.


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## petitpas

Way to go, Mon! Will they be checking your hcg and progesterone levels on Tuesday? Or is it just a yes/no test?


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## Mon_n_john

petitpas said:


> Way to go, Mon! Will they be checking your hcg and progesterone levels on Tuesday? Or is it just a yes/no test?

They'll definitely be testing both hcg and progesterone levels. I am considered high risk so I'll be monitored very closely, and that's fine with me.


----------



## petitpas

There are definitely some advantages to being high risk!


----------



## Lamburai1703

Congratulation Mon! Great news. I'll be wishing you superglue sandwiches and a healthy next 8 months!


----------



## padbrat

Wahey our first success! Congratulations Mon!


----------



## Mon_n_john

Thank you all so much! This morning's lines are darker then yesterday morning's and this afternoon's lines are even darker so I think everything is progressing nicely.


----------



## beachlover1

Great news!!! hang in there little bubs xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mon_n_john

Thank you everyone! I was on the way to my Dr. appt this morning and a song by Michael Buble came on the radio called "Hold On". Very fitting lyrics and it really touched me. That's all I think of these days, just hold on to me baby.

I did get my first blood test today and so far so good. I thought I would share my blood test results from today with you ladies in case you are curious.

HCG - 44
Progesterone - 24
Estrogen - 78

The nurse said I was right on target for 11 DPO. My next blood test is Thursday morning (48 hours later) to check for HCG doubling. Other than that the nurse said she would double check with my RE to see if she wants me to increase the Crinone progesterone but so far so good. 

And finally I was given some restrictions, probably just because I am high risk: no lifting heavy things, no exercise, no eating raw meat or raw fish such as sushi, and no sex for the next 2 weeks until I get my first vaginal ultrasound. DH is not crazy about no nookie but he understands it's for the best for now.


----------



## Round2

Hi Ladies,

Hope you don't mind if I jump in. I'm not a steriod junkie....but I want to be! Just wanted to ask a few questions.

I've had 2 MMC and 1 CP in the last year and half. I have an autoimmune disease called CREST, where I know that I make ANA antibodies. I've pretty much convinced myself this is the cause of my losses. Problem is that in Canada, immune treatments for RMC are practically unheard of. 

I've got a few leads on doctors who might consider this treatment, but the wait list is long. In the meantime, I'm going to try begging my doctors to give me some steriods. I'm going to see my Rhumetologist on Monday and will bring with me some literature that I've found on steriods and ANA. I was just wondering, how much is your dosage is? Is it prednisone that most people take? Have any of your doctors mentioned ANA being a cause of RMC? 

Thanks ladies and best of luck to you all. Congrats to the new BFP's, I'll be anxious to follow your progress.


----------



## DMH1988

Round2 said:


> I have an autoimmune disease called CREST, where I know that I make ANA antibodies.

Are you currently taking anything to help with your CREST?


----------



## Round2

DMH1988 said:


> Round2 said:
> 
> 
> I have an autoimmune disease called CREST, where I know that I make ANA antibodies.
> 
> Are you currently taking anything to help with your CREST?Click to expand...

No, the only drug I would take would be blood pressure meds to help with circulation issues, but I can't take it while I'm TTC.


----------



## DMH1988

Have they ever given you anything to bring you ANA or any antibodies down?


----------



## Round2

No, I've never been told that I need to bring my ANA down. I've just been given advice on how to treat the symptoms. None of my doctors seem to think it's related to my mc's.


----------



## beachlover1

I thought ANA antibodies had a link to MC.....A book by Dr Beers is V good, "is your body baby friendly" can you get hold of that?


----------



## beachlover1

Steroid junkies........how are your tummies??

I have horrendous heartburn permanently ans severe diahorrea!....been given some meds to protect my tum, so just watch out!!! this was 3 weeks in on 30mg!!


----------



## Round2

beachlover1 said:


> I thought ANA antibodies had a link to MC.....A book by Dr Beers is V good, "is your body baby friendly" can you get hold of that?

Thanks, yes I have heard of that book. I haven't read it, but I know he talks about ANA antibodies.

My rhumetologist shot me down for steriods again this week, but he did recommend a doctor who works with Dr. Beer's clinic. I have an appointment for January! I'm on the cancellation list, hopefully I'll see him sooner.


----------



## DMH1988

Any auto antibodies have the potential to cause pregnancy problems. Although pregnancy is a natural thing it is still considered a foreign body. Antibodies, even those considered specific to particular areas in the body, have the potential to affect other areas. I have high ANA along with antibodies against my thyroid, but the antibodies have affected many other parts of my body including my heart and neurological system. ANA can definitely cause multiple MC. Also, do you have the Raynaud's phenomenon? If so, remember that the placenta is made of MANY blood vessels. Spasms of blood vessels causing any blood flow restriction in the placenta could also be a cause since the baby may not be getting the accurate amount of oxygen and nutrients necessary for survival.


----------



## Round2

Yes, I've got very severe Raynaud's. Ughh.....so fustrated. Wish my doctor's would listen to me.


----------



## DMH1988

I suggest seeing any and every doctor until one does...You know you body better than anyone and a doctor that doesn't listen to what you say isn't a good doctor. 

I was luck enough to have doctors that listened to me and didn't think they knew everything. Unfortunately, the OB I was seeing for my pregnancy did and that's why mine ended the way it did. I was suppose to be getting monthly unltrasounds throughout the pregnancy, but only had too the entire almost 7 months! So when she was running out of amniotic fluid we never knew until it was too late.


----------



## Round2

I'm so sorry for your loss. That sounds like a nightmare.

I've been begging every doctor I can find. It's going to be an uphill battle, but I'm not giving up.


----------



## Doodar

Hi Ladies,

I'm starting my steroids tomorrow but unsure what time of day to take them. Clinic said to go with night time so I can sleep through the side effects but I've read that steroids can keep you awake at night so I thought it would be better to take them in the mornings. Clinic said go with whatever I'm happy with and change timings if I need to. Any advice girls?


----------



## beachlover1

Doodar....you are meant to take them with breakfast, make sure you eat!!!!! they need to be taken then so they mirror the bodies natural corticosteroid release through the day. They can make you a bit "active" especially at the start.....also be prepared for tummy upsets!....they should also think about giving you a stomach protector medicine!! i have had HORRENDOUS HB and diahorrea from them!


----------



## Lamburai1703

I was also told to take them in the morning as they do give you more energy and can mess with your sleep apparently. I've been on them for 5 weeks now and haven't noticed any side effects. I must be nails!


----------



## Doodar

Thanks girls. Think I'll go with the morning and keep fingers crossed that I dont start acting all weird at work :haha:. Really can't do with disruptions to my sleep, it's bad enough as it is.


----------



## beachlover1

Lambs........did I miss something!!!!!! I didn't know you were preggers! Amazing, i just saw your ticker!,
Its been a long journey for you so I hope you are, tell me more........what are they treating you for/with now? How's it going? Crossing everything for you!, PM me if you like!


----------



## Doodar

Hey girls three steroids down and touch wood no side effects, had headache yesterday but putting that down to lack of sleep and exhaustion from house move, for now anyway, will see how I go today. Start estrogen today too eek!! Not looking forward to that one. X


----------



## petitpas

:yipee:Yeay for Lambs:yipee:

Doodar, I also take my steroids in the morning (it says to do so on the packet). By lunchtime I'm starving and in the evening I get bright red cheeks :shrug:

Good luck with your ICSI! fxfxfx


----------



## padbrat

Wahoooo got my prescription for the stuff today!!


----------



## petitpas

I've found an advantageous side effect: went to body balance this evening and with my extra energy it was a doddle! :happydance:


----------



## petitpas

Pad, I'm still amazed at your fab deal with the meds :thumbup:


----------



## Doodar

No side effects for me :happydance: only thing I've noticed a slight difference in is my skin seems a lot drier but that could be down to weather, It's not a huge problem though and think I've been rather lucky! or am I speaking too soon, only been on them for 5 days! would side effects have kicked in by now.


----------



## petitpas

I only know about my case. From the first day I get hot cheeks in the evening and higher energy (plus more hunger). I am on my second cycle now and on my third day. This time round I don't quite have the manic energy going on. It's just that it is 10pm and I am wide awake, thinking of food :dohh:.


----------



## Doodar

Oh hunny you do make me laugh, I know I shouldn't and its probably far from funny for you but I just have this image now of you with bright red cheeks rummaging for food!! Will all be worth it sweet when we get what we want at the end of it. Hopefully we can look back and laugh :hugs:

I've had a few sleepless/restless nights but thats nothing new for me, so I dont know if the steroids are contributing. I did feel a bit hot on Monday, my face and chest felt kinda warm, but its nothing major.


----------



## petitpas

Your image is quite right! My rummaging efforts just paid off: I found a chocolate muffin! :yipee:


----------



## Doodar

:rofl::rofl: It's a good excuse hunny :thumbup:


----------



## Lamburai1703

Doodar said:


> Oh hunny you do make me laugh, I know I shouldn't and its probably far from funny for you but I just have this image now of you with bright red cheeks rummaging for food!!
> 
> 
> Do you have a camera into Pip's kitchen?? :rofl:Click to expand...


----------



## padbrat

Hahhaha Lambs... have to say Doodar... had a bit of a giggle at your thoughts on Pip raiding her kitchen with her hot flushes!!

I know... amazing Asda.. never thougt I would say it!

Got my prescription for steriods today! Am gonna get em tomorrow!!.... but am not sure when I start them... waiting for Consultant on that.


----------



## Doodar

Ok seems I lied about the side effects or I just didn't know I had them or I'm being punished for laughing at pip. Seems my tight skin feeling isnt tight skin after all, it's bright red flushing, never knew I had it until one of the girls at work pointed out that I look rather beetroot. Went to check myself out in the mirror and sure enough there was a beet staring back at me, my cheeks and chest were as red as they come. So for the past 6 days I've been walking round with bright red cheeks and chest and not known it, I thought it just felt kinda tight :haha: I never look in the mirror at work and as I take the steroid just before I leave for work, I would never know :haha:


----------



## petitpas

Hahaha! :haha:
I'm burning with you right now, beetroot sister :rofl:


----------



## Doodar

:rofl::rofl: we can be the new cool beetroot gang!! Or should that be hot beetroot gang :haha:


----------



## petitpas

You're making me think of beetroot soup. I love beetroot soup :blush:


----------



## petitpas

Seriously, I can't stop eating! It's embarrassing :blush:

What is everyone else up to?


----------



## beachlover1

eating LOL!! i feel so fat already ;-( i go to the gym every day, eat bugger all and still the pred is making me put on weight ;-( im not even preggres so cant blame it on that!!!

ok thoughts,...i need to ovulate to see Prof quenby 7-10 days later to do this uterine swab for killer cells. my CBFM (always faithful for 2 yrs) went from low to peak yesterday, no high just peak. I was away from home so when i got back in the avo i re tested using a IC cheapie and nada dam line in sight!!!! What do i believe??????? I need to be accurate for this swab thing, i dont want to wait too long and see what happens incase it was a peak....what do you reckon??? Did i LH surge or not?? trust the CBFM or the IC cheapie?? (they always worked before too. 

I did get minimal EWCM a couple of days ago and now its kinda milky. I also have this bloody ovary cyst that popped up out of nowhere in 2 weeks, so that might be making things awol. ALso does pred screw with cycles??

grrrrrrr i just want some lady luck :-(


----------



## petitpas

Sorry, can't help as I don't use fancy machines :) have you temped before? If yes, you could take your temp in the morning and see whether it's pre or post ov?
Worst case ask your doc for a blood test, which would confirm whether you already ovulated?

I'm such a pig, too. Everyone around me has noticed my new eating habits/needs :blush:


----------



## petitpas

Hey beachlover, did you manage to figure out ovulation?


----------



## Doodar

Pigginess here too. I polished off a whole box of matchmakers to myself last night, well all execpt 3 hee hee!! :haha: along with 2! yes 2 lemon slices and a packet of ready salted squares oops!! :blush:


----------



## petitpas

You are making me hungry. I am off to scavenge...


----------



## padbrat

Oooo my steriods arrived today.....

Not taking them just yet.. but in prep for pigginess to come I have scoffed a bag of crisps and a chocolate cake!!!


----------



## petitpas

That's the spirit! :yipee:

I think I'm going to have goose fat on toast for breakfast. Me, piggy?


----------



## beachlover1

well i finally got that smiley face  god it breaks my heart to ignore it!!!!!! anyway, am now waiting on confirmation of my Natural killer Cell test next week!! we had provisionally booked Tues, but it needs to be 7-10 days after ovulation for her normal ranges so ive had to change it!!!!

I cant believe my husband is gagging for it on a smiley face day (normally i have to persuade him by now) and I have to deny him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-) AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!


----------



## petitpas

Bag him and take him :haha:


----------



## beachlover1

such a waste ;-)


----------



## Mon_n_john

Really, you have to wait for that test? I had the same one and was told any day was fine.


----------



## beachlover1

I'm having the uterine biopsy, did you have that or the bloods? Xx


----------



## filipenko32

Hi, I am 32 and I have had 3 losses over 9 months. I am going to visit Dr Shehata at the miscarriage clinic next week and I am thinking about trying the steroids along with clexane aspirin and progesterone next time. Can anyone on here interpret my NK cell results for me? I had them done independent of a specialist after my 2nd miscarriage out of interest but now I don't understand what they mean. If someone can help me I will type them up for comparison with someone elses ir if you know if they're high or low (too impatient to wait for next week obviously!!) Great idea starting this thread! x


----------



## DMH1988

Type them up and I can take a look at them for you.


----------



## filipenko32

DMH1988 said:


> Type them up and I can take a look at them for you.

Ok,thanks so much! :happydance:


----------



## filipenko32

NATURAL KILLER CELLS COUNT
Lymphocyte count (10^9/L) : 2.431
Total NK Cell Absolute Count (10^6/L) : 302
(Lymphocytes) Total NK (%) 12.4
Normal range (%) : Less than 10%

NK (dim) Absolute count (10^6/L : 271.5
(Total NK) NK (dim) (%) : 89.9
NK (bright) Absolute Count (10^6/L) : 30.57
(Total NK) NK (bright) (%) : 10.1%

Activation Marker of Natural Killer Cells

Total NK CD69 Absolute Count (10^6/L) : 2.11
Total NK CD69 (%) : 0.70
Normal range (%) : Less than 1%


NK (dim) CD69 Absolute count (10^6/L : 2.00
(Total NK) NK (dim) CD69(%) : 0.66
NK (bright) CD69 Absolute Count (10^6/L) : 0.11
(Total NK) NK (bright) CD69 (%) : 0.03

Phew! Had to really concentrate to do that!! Thanks so much!


----------



## DMH1988

filipenko32 said:


> Phew! Had to really concentrate to do that!! Thanks so much!

I'll take a look and let you know :)


----------



## petitpas

Ok, this is what I have scribbled on my notes:

Total NK cell absolute count (10^6/L) (second line) normally range is less than 200. Yours is 302.

Activation marker (first line in this section)
Total NK CD69 Absolute count (10^6/L):
0.8-0.99 borderline
1-1.8 high
more than 1.8 very high
Yours is 2.11

I don't know what the rest is about and I can't guarantee I got it all right :shrug:


----------



## Lawa

Can I join to give you all support? I had 7 losses the steroids a now have a 12 week old baby girl x


----------



## petitpas

Lawa, you are very welcome :D this is such a fresh thread we can do with your ready cooked steroid baby story :thumbup:
Which doctor were you under? And if you don't mind me asking, did you stop the steroids after first tri?


----------



## DMH1988

filipenko32, your % on all of them seem to be within normal range. The one that is 12.4 % I found different ranges though some say less than 10% and some say less than 20%. I will continue to look up the rest of the stuff but hope this is helpful for now. Although it doesn't really give you any answers.


----------



## Lawa

I am on I pad so excuse spelling!

I was under professor quenby at heartlands birmingham. I had the unterine test and I had 10.5% nk cells normal is 5.

I was on 25 mg a ay then 20 for a week at 10 weeks 15 mg a day at 11 weeks ect ect until nothing!


----------



## petitpas

Was it quite hard to let go of your safety net after first tri? I think I would be petrified...


----------



## Lawa

Totally chick! I hated my pregnancy from start to finish every second of it I felt so guilty of feeling that way bu I did! I think I was protecting myself from heart ache again! The firs thing I asked when she was delivered is what is wrong with her!


----------



## petitpas

Oh sweetie, I laughed when I read that (bad me!)! It is totally to be expected, though. I think I would need a second healthy pregnancy to be able to finally relax a little...


----------



## DMH1988

Petitpas, do you know much about LH and ovulation?


----------



## petitpas

Not too much, but what's your question?


----------



## DMH1988

I'm on CD 24 and haven't had an LH increase.


----------



## petitpas

My question would be: how do you know?


----------



## DMH1988

Using opk tests


----------



## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Ok, this is what I have scribbled on my notes:
> 
> Total NK cell absolute count (10^6/L) (second line) normally range is less than 200. Yours is 302.
> 
> Activation marker (first line in this section)
> Total NK CD69 Absolute count (10^6/L):
> 0.8-0.99 borderline
> 1-1.8 high
> more than 1.8 very high
> Yours is 2.11
> 
> I don't know what the rest is about and I can't guarantee I got it all right :shrug:

Thanks for doing that!:flower: I think you ladies are experts anyway as you have been through this test before. When the blood was taken for this I got home and took a pregnancy test 10dpo and it was positive (that's my mc now) but if they're too high when I am just pregnant maybe it can't implant properly? Interesting! x


----------



## DMH1988

CD69 help destroy foreign cells. And of course a placenta and fetus is considered foreign.


----------



## petitpas

DMH, there are three options I can think of. 
1. you missed your LH surge, wrong time of day and so on. I don't suppose you temp, but if you did that would confirm whether your opks missed the surge...
2. you are experiencing a delayed ovulation - stress/illness/medication can delay ovulation. Could that be a factor? Do you normally have irregular cycles? When do you normally first get a +opk?
3. this may be one of the odd months you don't ovulate. Has this happened to you before?

I would suggest keeping an eye on things like cm, more opks, possibly temping and waiting the normal length of your cycle. I.e., if your cycles last up to 30 days, give it a little over a week and wait for something to happen. If af comes, write this cycle off and have a fresh start. If there is no change, maybe pay your doctor a visit and ask for a blood test to see what's going on.

How are you feeling about all this?


----------



## petitpas

Thanks for the info on cd69. That's where I had a high result but I wasn't sure what that meant in practical terms.


----------



## DMH1988

I wait a few days after the bleeding stopped to start using the opk. I've been on birth control pills since I was very young due to severe menstrual bleeding that occurred. And I became pregnant when I was on the pill so I've never really experienced cycles without being on hormones. This has been my second cycle since my loss at 26 weeks.


----------



## petitpas

Oh sorry about your loss :hugs:

In that case it sounds like your cycle might be a bit out of whack since giving birth. It can be entirely normal, I think, but you obviously want to keep an eye on it. Have you considered charting? It's not something that helps you predict ovulation and when to get jiggy with it, but it does help you get to know your body better.

If nothing happens in a week or so, then I don't think it would harm if you go to your doctor to see if you can have a blood test. That'll confirm whether you ovulated or not and whether you might need a little help to get your cycles back on track :hugs:


----------



## DMH1988

He thinks I'm pregnant already, but I'm doubtful. We started trying CD 7. I've only got 4 days until I should start if I'm on a 28 day cycle. If I were pregnant one of the early detection tests should work by now correct?


----------



## Lawa

Not nessercarialy depends on the amount of hcg in you blood stream! My friend was using an early test and did get a bfp until cd 16!


----------



## petitpas

With 'he' do you mean your doctor or your OH?
You could always get a double pack of early tests (superdrug are good), try one with FMU and then again a few days later.
Personally, I wouldn't necessarily expect a perfect 28 day cycle this month as your body could still be a bit mixed up or you're a 32 day kinda girl, you just don't know it :D


----------



## filipenko32

Hi ladies, 

Just thought I'd post an update, it includes Predisolone. So far I am 7 weeks pregnant and sure this pregnancy was doomed because I had: non-doubling hcg levels and a small gestational sac. My doctor thought this one was ectopic and i was rushed to hospital (horrific) but then they found the yolk sac too. Doctor said in this case keep taking the progesterone and Clexane as I still have a small chance. I did. Next thing I know is a scan yesterday at 7 weeks exactly showed fetal pole and heatbeat which we heard. We were shocked as we felt sure this pregnancy was not going to get too far. The doctor said the heartbeat is on the slower side so he has prescribed me 2 x 5mg Prednisolone to take every morning and I had my first 2 this morning. He said this is for immune purposes. I am still having pregnancy symptoms although they come and go. Doctor says we still have a chance and to take a 'middle emotional road' if you see what I mean. No real side effects from tablets yet I think, just feel out of it but that is sometimes a pregnancy symptom for me. What do you all think? x x


----------



## petitpas

Hi filipenko, I think your doctor is exactly right. There is hope and you are doing all you can. At the same time you have to prepare yourself that this one might still not make it (if at all one can be prepared for that :nope:).
We will all definitely be cheering your little fighter on! When is your next scan?


----------



## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Hi filipenko, I think your doctor is exactly right. There is hope and you are doing all you can. At the same time you have to prepare yourself that this one might still not make it (if at all one can be prepared for that :nope:).
> We will all definitely be cheering your little fighter on! When is your next scan?

Hi I have another scan in a weeks time so I think the heartbeat should be much faster by then if I am going to have any chance. My last pregnancy ended a few days after the heartbeat was heard and that had a good heartbeat but a too large yolk sac! Can't win! I am prepared but it is nice to have a tiny tiny bit more hope and it will be interesting to see if the prednisolone makes a difference! I am only on 10mg per day, do you think that's enough? Doctor says he has seen someone in my exact situ too but with temporarily decreasing hcg levels and that worked out fine with a healthy boy. After all my research :coffee: i find that very hard to believe but then he was brutally honest with my when he sent me to a and e for the ectopic investigastion and said i would surely miscarry so who knows!! How far along are you? x x


----------



## petitpas

You know what? There are many amazing and/or sad cases that never get written down. You are going to have to believe and trust your doctor and that he knows what he's doing.
It's great you have hope - I bet your little one can feel it.


----------



## Lamburai1703

Hey ladies. Sadly the steroid did not work for me this time as after a perfect scan with heart beat of 165bpm on Monday, there was no heartbeat on Friday. Measuring 8+5 so exactly the same stage as last time.

I hope you all have more luck, and that maybe the steroids will work for me next time.


----------



## filipenko32

Lamburai1703 said:


> Hey ladies. Sadly the steroid did not work for me this time as after a perfect scan with heart beat of 165bpm on Monday, there was no heartbeat on Friday. Measuring 8+5 so exactly the same stage as last time.
> 
> I hope you all have more luck, and that maybe the steroids will work for me next time.

SO sorry to read this :cry:. It might have really been random chromosome bad luck this time and the steroids will work the next. It's so unfair and I'm so sorry x x x


----------



## beachlover1

I'm so sorry to hear this lamburai!!! That really is so sad.


----------



## petitpas

Lambs, I truly hope they work for you next time round, too. I don't know anyone who deserves it more than you :kiss:

If you ever need an extra bit of hope, think of Mr Shehata's most famous success story. That lady also lost her first steroid baby (18th loss) and then carried her next one to term.


----------



## filipenko32

Yes that's true, he may alter the dose next time or know something now that he didn't before, you'll definitely get there and soon! When I mc, one thing that makes me 'feel better' is that it was sooner rather than later and you can make room for the one that's going to be successful. I know it's a very personal thing and everyone copes with mc's differently but maybe that helps a little because it really helps me. Still it's just not fair that you should have to go through all of this to eventually get your baby but it will happen for you. x :hugs:


----------



## Lawa

Lambs I am so sorry hun


----------



## filipenko32

Did anyone ever get severe headaches from the steroids? I felt like my head was about to fall off for about 8 hours in total last night? Also really bad indigestion? I'm only on 10mg a day.


----------



## Doodar

I have bad indigestion, heartburn, excess wind, bloating! I'm on such a concoction of meds though that I can't really pinpoint it to the steroids. Only thing I can pinpoint to steroids is the face flushing when I first started taking them.

Lambs I just want you to know I am thinking of you! It's just so bloody unfair!


----------



## Lawa

I had no issues with the steriods at all no side affects! Apart from no symptoms at all!


----------



## beachlover1

Indigestion is a big side effect....they should I've given you a proton pump inhibitor to prevent acid being made, that you take at the same time!! Ask for it if they didn't give you it. 

Headaches, no not that one. But at 6 weeks into my medication I now have a fatter face :( 

I have my biopsy for the killer cells this week.....not sure how accurate it'll be whilst I'm on steroids!!


----------



## petitpas

beachlover, you'd hope that whilst on the steroids your nkcells would be low, right? What's the reason they are testing while on the meds? To see if you need a higher dose?

Filipenko, I had the worst headaches when I came off the steroids (8 days at 25mg, then cold turkey)...


----------



## Lawa

Yes Beachlover Your NK cells will hopefully now be non!


----------



## beachlover1

Yeah I asked why she was testing while I was on the steroids, basically she will be able to tell if they were high in the first place depending on what they are with treatment! Not sure how that works but I'll try any treatment :) I'm guessig if they are normal now then they would have been high before. I kinda hope she just says let's keep on them each month but we shall see


----------



## padbrat

Friday is steriods day.... been to the gym in order to try and combat the weight gain.... gawn I am gonna look awful by the time I get to Cyprus!


----------



## filipenko32

Hi all, 

Just an update which might add a little hope to this thread. I know I was not taking steroids from then beginning but just a reminder that when my doctor saw a slow heartrate he prescribed 10mg prednisolone / day. Just been for a scan and the heartbeat has gone straight up to 145 and the baby is now 7.5mm which is now in range for my dates. Quite a turn around. Not out of the woods yet though... Hope that's helpful. I'll keep you posted x x


----------



## beachlover1

hang in there little one...thats great news ;-) sounds really positive. what happened to you is exactly what happens to me each time....good HB at one scan then a few days later a slow HB!! this gives me lots of hope! thanks x


----------



## filipenko32

beachlover1 said:


> hang in there little one...thats great news ;-) sounds really positive. what happened to you is exactly what happens to me each time....good HB at one scan then a few days later a slow HB!! this gives me lots of hope! thanks x

Thanks! i'm glad it gives you hope, i'll let you know if it starts to fluctuate, for the moment it just seems to have zoomed - from 100 - 145 in 4/5 days?? It's like it's on steroids!! But i'll watch out for the fluctuation.:hugs: x


----------



## petitpas

Wow, that's an incredible turnaround! Well done little filipenko bean :thumbup:

I have a new symptom to add. Apart from getting an even flabbier belly my bbs have become super soft and flabby. Not their usual preggo fullness. I actually, for the first time in years, think I need to go DOWN a bra size!
Now, I could be worried that it is the pregnancy and it is not progressing, but the tests that I took progressed nicely. I think I have to chalk it up to the steroids. I have no other explanation and it is a HUGE difference to my normal pregnant body shape :shrug:


----------



## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Wow, that's an incredible turnaround! Well done little filipenko bean :thumbup:
> 
> I have a new symptom to add. Apart from getting an even flabbier belly my bbs have become super soft and flabby. Not their usual preggo fullness. I actually, for the first time in years, think I need to go DOWN a bra size!
> Now, I could be worried that it is the pregnancy and it is not progressing, but the tests that I took progressed nicely. I think I have to chalk it up to the steroids. I have no other explanation and it is a HUGE difference to my normal pregnant body shape :shrug:

Thanks! :flower: Just to let you know that I have noticed that my boobs have actually become misshapen with odd puffy indentations and i've never had that before, I also think they're smaller and this is since taking the steroids - my bra was a tight squeeze anyway so might just fit now!!! :hugs: x


----------



## Lawa

I wouldnt have known I was pregnant on the steriods! I was constantly worried as I had not one symptom at all x


----------



## beachlover1

filipenko32 said:


> petitpas said:
> 
> 
> Thanks! :flower: Just to let you know that I have noticed that my boobs have actually become misshapen with odd puffy indentations and i've never had that before, I also think they're smaller and this is since taking the steroids - my bra was a tight squeeze anyway so might just fit now!!! :hugs: x
> 
> right, im glad its not just me then....im not pregnant in all fairness, but YES this puffiness and indentations, its like my belly, boobs and even arms just got a weird cellulite :wacko: i reckon its water retention from steroids:thumbup:Click to expand...


----------



## filipenko32

Yes it's like celluite and it has recently appeared :hugs: x


----------



## beachlover1

WELL I HAD MY UTERINE BIOPSY....OUCH!!!!!!!! sorry caps lock!! yep it hurt! but all is done, she is going to have a l;ook at the sample and see if the steroids have hammered the liniing, it looked quite a bloody chunk, and she thinks steroids may have killed it too much!! I may go into a progesterone trial instead. She is doing two trials, steroids and progesterone. 

I will know in 4 - 5 weeks, she wont put me on steroids if thats the route we choose...until I get a BFP. I her trials accross the country, so far the steroids have HINDERED people getting preggers, and screwed up cycles, so she waits til the BFP arrives, then you start at 4 weeks preg. 

If i go into a trial at least ill be handheld for early scans etc!!
WE shall see in a few week.....its all about the endometrium apparently ;-)

Mine was only 7mm, which is pretty thin, if i was an IVF person it would be the thinnesst they would like....anyone know how to thicken it up naturally??


Anyway, i have the go ahead to TTC now!!!!! as for the grapefruit sized cysts, it looks like they shrank...but she pooo pooed them anyway and said they will come n go!!


----------



## beachlover1

filipenko32 said:


> Yes it's like celluite and it has recently appeared :hugs: x

glad im not the only one!! my tummy has gone gross :-(

....all fluid me thinks!!


----------



## petitpas

Ouchy! Sorry to hear it hurt :nope: but glad your doc was looking at all the factors.


----------



## filipenko32

beachlover1 said:


> WELL I HAD MY UTERINE BIOPSY....OUCH!!!!!!!! sorry caps lock!! yep it hurt! but all is done, she is going to have a l;ook at the sample and see if the steroids have hammered the liniing, it looked quite a bloody chunk, and she thinks steroids may have killed it too much!! I may go into a progesterone trial instead. She is doing two trials, steroids and progesterone.
> 
> I will know in 4 - 5 weeks, she wont put me on steroids if thats the route we choose...until I get a BFP. I her trials accross the country, so far the steroids have HINDERED people getting preggers, and screwed up cycles, so she waits til the BFP arrives, then you start at 4 weeks preg.
> 
> If i go into a trial at least ill be handheld for early scans etc!!
> WE shall see in a few week.....its all about the endometrium apparently ;-)
> 
> Mine was only 7mm, which is pretty thin, if i was an IVF person it would be the thinnesst they would like....anyone know how to thicken it up naturally??
> 
> 
> Anyway, i have the go ahead to TTC now!!!!! as for the grapefruit sized cysts, it looks like they shrank...but she pooo pooed them anyway and said they will come n go!!

Sorry it hurt - as if you haven't been through enough :hugs: but it will all be more than worth it in the end!! I have heard about steroids messing up your cycles so I like the idea of them starting you off at bfp. I found that the clearblue blue cross tests picked up my bfp faster than then frer ones and the digi ones and I tried all three from 8dpo! I'm sure you'll get your bfp soon and start treatment if you decide to and it will all work out next time, I have a feeling!! :flower:x


----------



## filipenko32

Oh and I think the hormone porgesterone is responsible for thickening up the lining as this is what happens in the luteal phase of your period before prog drops and the lining sheds - your lining would probably be much thicker at a different time in your cycle? Sorry if you already knew all this.


----------



## Doodar

Anyone else's chin getting decidedly hairy and spotty!! It's getting way out of control. I'm starting to resemble a teenage boy!!


----------



## filipenko32

No! don't have that symptom...yet!


----------



## beachlover1

mummmm no hairy chin yet, or spots!! thats not a great side effect!!

Re the progesterone, thickening the lining.....I had the test done at 8DPO.....just when implantation would take place. She does it then so she can see exactly the no of killer cells attacking a baby and also exactly how cosy....or not the lining is  mine didnt sound too cosy, but last cycle it was 8mm at the same time (i had a cyst scan) so im not too troubled just now.....i just wish AF would hurry up now so I can O again ;-)

Yeah, CB are always early for me too......But FRERS are good for me too!! i always trust them over the blues!!!!


----------



## filipenko32

Oh ok I see. I started taking progesterone from bfp at 9dpo this time, my doctor says it 'smooths' the womb whatever that means...Will wish for your af to hurry up for you! :hugs:


----------



## Hope39

beachlover1 said:


> WELL I HAD MY UTERINE BIOPSY....OUCH!!!!!!!! sorry caps lock!! yep it hurt! but all is done, she is going to have a l;ook at the sample and see if the steroids have hammered the liniing, it looked quite a bloody chunk, and she thinks steroids may have killed it too much!! I may go into a progesterone trial instead. She is doing two trials, steroids and progesterone.
> 
> I will know in 4 - 5 weeks, she wont put me on steroids if thats the route we choose...until I get a BFP. I her trials accross the country, so far the steroids have HINDERED people getting preggers, and screwed up cycles, so she waits til the BFP arrives, then you start at 4 weeks preg.
> 
> If i go into a trial at least ill be handheld for early scans etc!!
> WE shall see in a few week.....its all about the endometrium apparently ;-)
> 
> Mine was only 7mm, which is pretty thin, if i was an IVF person it would be the thinnesst they would like....anyone know how to thicken it up naturally??
> 
> 
> Anyway, i have the go ahead to TTC now!!!!! as for the grapefruit sized cysts, it looks like they shrank...but she pooo pooed them anyway and said they will come n go!!


I wish i hadn't read this beachlover, the OUCH has scared me, i was happy when you PM me to say it was uncormforable! I hopefully will be seeing her in next month x


----------



## petitpas

I have the odd spots (one right on the tip of my nose today) but still waiting on the hair...


----------



## beachlover1

Hope39 said:


> I wish i hadn't read this beachlover, the OUCH has scared me, i was happy when you PM me to say it was uncormforable! I hopefully will be seeing her in next month x


ahhhh dont worry.......ive had worse things! :wacko: its a smear thats a bit more scratchy and crampy too. Youll get a few period pains after....she said spotting, but I had a bit more than that for the next day only! keep me posted!! :flower:


----------



## padbrat

Oooo so why am I on steriods now... which would be pre ov?..... My endometruim has always been thick and juicy... I hope it doesn't go all thin and horrible...

I have been craving food non stop... I have put on 5lbs already!!! OMG...

Fat beach whale alert in Cyrpus in 2 weeks time!!!


----------



## beachlover1

I guess each specialists findings are different......yours just has a different protocol. Im happy to not take them til a BFP pops up!! this week is my last week of being a steroid junkie.....hopefully not too long til i maybe take them again!!!!!!!


----------



## filipenko32

There are arguments for and against for both sides. One thing though I have spoken to ladies on B&B who have to take Prednisolone for arthritis / asthma and they take the meds all the time and everything turns out ok (they also mustn't have had too much disruption in their cycles as they are pregnant and their older children are just fine x


----------



## filipenko32

Not sure which one is more beneficial pregnancy-wise though, maybe it does not make too much of a difference?? Would be interesting to know which strategy is best or if it even mattered! I only started mine when the heartbeat was slow at 5 weeks ish and that is only 10mg / day. I don't whether these have had any effect on improving the heartrate but the heart rate went from 100 to 145 in 4 days! Hope that's helpful and i'm not rambling! x


----------



## petitpas

Mr S says to take them from ov but when I told the midwife at his clinic I had waited until two days after ov on my first cycle she said they advise to start from first positive ovulation test. So I did this time round and I still ovulated.

Maybe it's like aspirin. They (including my local specialist) say it can delay ovulation if you take it every day. I've tried it in two cycles and it made no difference :shrug:

I'm pretty sure you'll have a scan in sunny Cyprus before egg transfer and will be able to see how juicy and ready your endometrium is!


----------



## beachlover1

yeah, i took aspirin everyday for 6 months...didnt do anything bad to my cycles ;-) they all have their different ideas ;-) none wrong!!! xxx


----------



## Lawa

Beachlover who are you seeing?

I took mine from BFP! Andy es the biopsy feking hurt lol especially when one was done and they said they hadn't got enough so had to start again!


----------



## petitpas

Lawa, it makes you wonder whether some people become doctors because they are sadists :haha:

I've gone ahead and updated the first post with Doodar's status :winkwink:

How is everyone else doing? Pad, was your lining juiciness scan today ok?


----------



## Lawa

I passed out hun! Doc was laughing she said my womb was in my bleeding mouth lol


----------



## petitpas

:rofl: sorry, but I had to laugh. What a mean doctor! I think I would get on with them rather too well :rofl:


----------



## petitpas

My latest news is that my breasts are on the move. The left cup has filled out again... waiting for my right one to catch up...


----------



## filipenko32

Hi all, 

As you probably now know from my other threads this last one did not make it either. I am actually very relieved as there was a lot wrong from the start and I had many doubts... So relieved it was over quickly - I am lucky. Just had an erpc yesterday which went brilliantly and I feel great. I am now starting to strongly suspect that these mc's are due to chromosomal problems and bad luck. This is because all the bad chromosomal development signs are always there (week behind dates, wonky hcgs, large yolk sack or too small gest sac) I'm still young I think at 32 and I met a girl yesterday at the hospital who is 28 and has had 3 (2 due to chromosomal problems for sure) so not age related. I will know for sure hopefully with this one as i have had the tissue sent off to cytogenics to be tested. Anyway, we have 4 options now: 
1. try again asap with clexane, aspirin and progesterone 
2. wait one cycle and then try again with the steroids from bfp, and all of above
3. IVF / ICSI with pre implantation genetic diagnosis (so embryos are screened for ALL chromosomes before implantation) £8K !!!!!!!!!!!! per cycle eeek
4. try again with no treatment, there's nothing wrong with me just need a good egg and sperm to meet and divide properly
5. Give up (That's why I said there are only 4 options!) 

What do you all think?


----------



## petitpas

Filipenko, I'm glad the ERPC wasn't too traumatic but still so sorry for your loss.
I understand what you mean about the relief of it being a genetic anomaly. I have had that with two of my losses. They were so different to my later, supposedly healthy ones.

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by getting the tissue tested. Hopefully, the results will confirm your fears but also give you hope that next time will be better. 

You and your husband can improve your diets and habits (drinking, smoking, healthy food, not overheating his sperm) in order to increase your chances of a healthy bean next time. It can take three months for any benefits to be seen but would be a cheaper start than the £8k for PGD.

If the test comes back as normal (i.e. your body has a problem that needs fixing), I would suggest the following:
Progesterone from ovulation - as I understand it, this can help specifically with early losses that were struggling to keep up before they were lost.
Baby aspirin
Heparin - to be honest, I read some research recently that for women who tested negative for lupus and the standard clotting panel giving heparin made no difference. Have you had these tests done?
Ultimately, as heparin does not cross the placenta it is not harmful to the baby so if you feel you'd rather take it and your doctor is happy then you should be ok.
Vitamin D - there is some discussion whether women lacking in vitamin D are more likely to miscarry so maybe you can take a supplement? You should check the dose with your doctor first.

Step 2 - have the nkcells tests. Dependant on results, decide whether to go with steroids or similar alongside the above.

I'm not a doctor, just writing about what I have learned journeying through my own recurrent miscarriage experience.

I hope you continue to recover well but don't be hard on yourself if you feel like you need some time off or a good cry. You are a strong brave lady and you have three gorgeous angels watching over you :hugs:


----------



## petitpas

PS: I tend to wait until after the first af to ttc. I don't like it how they scrape blindly during the ERPC and I've had bits left behind. With a natural af after I feel like I have cleaned out the old and the environment is nice and fresh for a new baby. You'd also have your test results back by then and be able to make a more informed decision on what you want to do.

Saying that, plenty of women ttc immediately and are fine so it really is what you feel most comfortable with!


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks Petitpas, so kind of you to take the trouble to help me - no wonder you've been thanked so many times! I've added one more for you :hugs: We do the whole healthy diet/habits thing and have been for over a year. You might be interested to know that I have made my husband have 3 x sperm tests and a semen DNA fragmentation test which tests for broken DNA which can cause miscarriages. The sperm tests always came out the same and this was interesting as the 1st one was the only variable in conditions in that a 2 months before that test we had been to Vegas for a week. Me with 2 girlfriends and my husband with his friends went and although sometimes we got together for the day my husband and his friends REALLY hammered the drink for a whole week - and I mean night and day drinking solid, my husband looked appalling when we got home and was very very ill - serves him right and i didnt look after him!!! :laugh: However my point is that the results never changed and this is why. After that 1st test (which was within the 3 month sperm regeneration period for the drinking binge) my husband's results came back with a VERY high sperm count but low morphology (3%) meaning, as I'm sure you know, that 97% of his sperm were abnormal freaky things!! I was just beside myself so I made him give up drink, take vitamins, etc for 4 months and then we had the test done again - no different. The fertility specialist said that high sperm / low morphology makes up for it as more are normal as there are more sperm but I have never really been convinced of that. They 'diagnosed' him as 'capable of conception'. Well yes that's all true but what quality is what I always think!? What do you think? The semen dna frag test came back normal. 
If the chromo tests come back as normal I will be surprised I think but in a way glad as at least there's something that can be done about it with treatment. I think you're right about waiting for 1st af and making a nice hotel room! But I am sooo impatient to be pregnant again, might have to be sensible though. 
Had all tests done for heparin, nothing wrong with me aside from a possible protein S deficiency which is related to blood clotting. 
Like the vitamin D idea - will do that! 
How much aspirin do you take and when from? 
To get a reliable NK cells result doctor says bloods have to be sent to Chicago and you need a womb biopsy?!?
How far along are you now? I REALLY hope everything goes well for you this time, you so deserve it x x :hugs:


----------



## Doodar

petitpas said:


> Lawa, it makes you wonder whether some people become doctors because they are sadists :haha:
> 
> I've gone ahead and updated the first post with Doodar's status :winkwink:
> 
> How is everyone else doing? Pad, was your lining juiciness scan today ok?

Thanks hunny, I always forget to update in here :thumbup:



petitpas said:


> My latest news is that my breasts are on the move. The left cup has filled out again... waiting for my right one to catch up...

:rofl:



filipenko32 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> As you probably now know from my other threads this last one did not make it either. I am actually very relieved as there was a lot wrong from the start and I had many doubts... So relieved it was over quickly - I am lucky. Just had an erpc yesterday which went brilliantly and I feel great. I am now starting to strongly suspect that these mc's are due to chromosomal problems and bad luck. This is because all the bad chromosomal development signs are always there (week behind dates, wonky hcgs, large yolk sack or too small gest sac) I'm still young I think at 32 and I met a girl yesterday at the hospital who is 28 and has had 3 (2 due to chromosomal problems for sure) so not age related. I will know for sure hopefully with this one as i have had the tissue sent off to cytogenics to be tested. Anyway, we have 4 options now:
> 1. try again asap with clexane, aspirin and progesterone
> 2. wait one cycle and then try again with the steroids from bfp, and all of above
> 3. IVF / ICSI with pre implantation genetic diagnosis (so embryos are screened for ALL chromosomes before implantation) £8K !!!!!!!!!!!! per cycle eeek
> 4. try again with no treatment, there's nothing wrong with me just need a good egg and sperm to meet and divide properly
> 5. Give up (That's why I said there are only 4 options!)
> 
> What do you all think?

So sorry to hear about your loss! you sound like such a brave lady :hugs: Can only really echo what petitpas has said she is a wise lady and knows much more about these things than I do.
Are you taking the steroids for immune issues? I dont understand why they start them at bfp. I started them on CD2.
It may be worth giving it a shot with the clexane,aspirin and progesterone, like you say if there is nothing wrong with you, you could potentially be wasting 8k if you go down the pgd route. I'll keep everything crossed that your next bfp is your forever bubba and whichever route you take I wish you all the best :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

What do you all think?[/QUOTE]
So sorry to hear about your loss! you sound like such a brave lady :hugs: Can only really echo what petitpas has said she is a wise lady and knows much more about these things than I do.
Are you taking the steroids for immune issues? I dont understand why they start them at bfp. I started them on CD2.
It may be worth giving it a shot with the clexane,aspirin and progesterone, like you say if there is nothing wrong with you, you could potentially be wasting 8k if you go down the pgd route. I'll keep everything crossed that your next bfp is your forever bubba and whichever route you take I wish you all the best :hugs:[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much doodar, yes you're right about the 8K, it would be so terrible to waste it if we would have been successful on our own. I am definitely adding aspirin to the mix next time as I have heard so many success stories. Do you mind me asking why you have the ICSI? x


----------



## filipenko32

Hi Doodar, please ignore the icsi question, i just read your journal and my goodness you have been through a lot. I really felt your frustration when I read the bit about your OH refusing to go through the op again. I would have been beside myself at that point too but of course it's even worse as you can appreciate his side of things too even when you're going through that terrible frustration at the time. I think that frustration mixed with grief and hurt is the worst worst feeling. I really hope it works out for you in the end. Are you pregnant now? I hope you don't mind me asking this (please feel free not to answer) but why are you going through steroid treatment etc when it is 'likely' (not that I know it's likely at all!) a sperm problem you're having? I hope i've not upset you by asking this. It's just that sometimes I wonder whether my mc's are not attributed the sperm and my DH's low morphology where 97% of the sperm are poor quality. x :hugs:


----------



## Lawa

Hi Ladies I thought I would share my steriod baby with you! this was our last attempt number 8 X

Gracie Aged about 10 11 weeks here x 

https://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/Bert1968/P9010003.jpg

https://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/Bert1968/P8210022.jpg


----------



## petitpas

Oh Lawa, she's so pretty! I want one of those! :cloud9:

Filipenko, I have to admit that I don't know much about sperm issues but I do believe that ICSI is good for just that. I can imagine that you could even go for it without the PGD as with the ICSI they would specifically pick out the 3% good-looking spermies. At the same time, normally only the good ones make it to the eggy so maybe you have just been really unlucky? Urgh, I'm getting all confused now myself :dohh:

I guess it all depends on the test results?

It's funny because we all seem to be taking steroids at different times of the month. I started at ovulation, Doodar at the beginning of her cycle... Lawa, if you were on Prof Quenby's trial I can imagine that you started with a bfp?

I take two baby aspirin a day but I checked it with my specialists. Coupled with the two shots of heparin I have a day I am well and truly anticoagulated. But then I have a history of clotting (before ttc) so this has always been a particular concern of mine.
I used to start aspirin with a bfp, now I take one every day regardless of when I am in the month (my doctor says it can delay ovulation but I haven't noticed a change) and I started the second aspirin with my bfp.


----------



## Doodar

Aw Lawa she is beautiful, gives us all hope! thank you :thumbup:

Filipenko, no don't mind you asking at all. I'm on the steroids because of two previous miscarriages. We can't really attribute it to sperm issues although it maybe, but we were unable to have tests due to it being frozen. Dr said its more likely to be immune issues, because we produced good grade embryos so therefore less likely to be sperm issues. Hope that helps :thumbup:


----------



## Lamburai1703

Hi girls. This thread used to block signatures (in order to not upset people) but they seem to have changed this with the new BnB format. Shall I request that signatures are blocked again? I'm not personally bothered presently, but I guess some days I might be. What do you folk think?


----------



## petitpas

I don't mind you asking for this thread. I'll try and keep the first post up to date so if anyone wants to look at someone's current status they still can.


----------



## petitpas

PS: Loving your new ticker, Lambs! :haha:


----------



## Lamburai1703

I'm such a knobber! It wasn't this thread that blocked signatures - it was the recurrent miscarriage thread. I've got all confuddled. Doesn't take much...

Need wine. Wine makes Lamb clever...


----------



## filipenko32

Beautiful little girl Lawa! It's amazing what 2 little tablets a day can do!!


----------



## petitpas

Still, I don't mind. I think you can request it for specific threads...


----------



## Lamburai1703

Nah. Not if it wasn't before. I like seeing your shiny new ticker!


----------



## petitpas

I like seeing YOUR shiny new ticker :D


----------



## filipenko32

Doodar said:


> Aw Lawa she is beautiful, gives us all hope! thank you :thumbup:
> 
> Filipenko, no don't mind you asking at all. I'm on the steroids because of two previous miscarriages. We can't really attribute it to sperm issues although it maybe, but we were unable to have tests due to it being frozen. Dr said its more likely to be immune issues, because we produced good grade embryos so therefore less likely to be sperm issues. Hope that helps :thumbup:

That makes sense thank-you! :flower:


----------



## filipenko32

Hi ladies, does anyone know which fish oil and how much of it is supposed to be good for supressing the immune system? Thanks!


----------



## petitpas

Sorry, I don't know. My doctor (the one who ran the immunology tests and put me on steroids) just told me he wanted me to take pregnacare plus omega 3.


----------



## Hope39

I am taking Omega 3 Fish Oil (1000mg)


----------



## petitpas

I guess that's the one then :thumbup:
To be honest, I didn't know it had an effect on the immune system... I must do more research :D


----------



## Hope39

I didn't know it had an effect on the immune system either :wacko:

I had seem someone else was taking it so thought i would try that

I'll try anything if it means i can sustain a pregnancy

x


----------



## Gingersnaps

Hello,
I am new with a few questions:flower:
Are there specific immunilogical issues that steroids are helpful for?
I have two known autoimmune issues - hypothyroidism and Celiacs disease as well as endo. 
I will be going to see a Re soon and wonder if I should bring up steroids. 
My losses have all been around 4/5 weeks except for a blighted ovum that stopped growing around 4.5 weeks but miscarried at 10. 
I have not had NK cells tested but have heard they fluxuate with stress levels.
My losses except for a chemical in May were all prior to my autoimmune discoveries.
Thanks for any thoughts.


----------



## petitpas

Hi ginger, I have read that thyroid issues, if uncontrolled, can cause recurrent miscarriage. Once you are on the right meds that should be fine, though.

Endo can be a problem with conception and put you at risk of ectopics but is not normally a cause of miscarriages.

I don't know how coeliac disease affects pregnancies.

However, the fact that you have a number of things going on could be a sign of a generally aggressive immune system according to Dr Beer's book, and might warrant nk cell testing. It is probably worth discussing with your RE.

It could very well be that by fixing your thyroid problem you have found the issue and go on to have your healthy baby. 

My sister has IBS and hypothyroidism. She fell pregnant immediately once her meds were at the right dose and had a wonderfully uncomplicated pregnancy. Oh how jealous I am of her :haha:

Let us know how you get on with your RE. I really hope everything works out well for you :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Hi Petitpas, how have your scans & hcg levels been going? I hope everything's goinf perfectly for you. I went out to get some Pregnacare Plus yesterday with the Omega oil so I am taking this now instead of my sanatogen prenatal.


----------



## petitpas

I'm doing ok. I've had three scans with everything measuring perfectly on track. No bloods needed.
With me, things usually go one of two ways: Either I start bleeding around six weeks and pass everything naturally (I suppose this is my body getting rid of a genetic problem) - I seem to be past that stage. Or, I get to 8 weeks with everything on track but at my 9 week scan there is a 8.5 week baby with no heartbeat in there (I had the last one tested and he was genetically normal).
I'm now not having a scan until my ninth week when we will see whether we have broken the pattern. As you can imagine, the next ten days are going to be a bit worrisome but I am going to chill out and rest as much as possible. Tomorrow is my last day at work as I was made redundant , which has the benefit of me being able to stay in bed for the most part of next week! :haha:


----------



## filipenko32

I really hope everything works out for you this time and the steroids work. It really sounds as though it is an immune problem doesn't it, with the fetus testing normal for chromosome problems but i would think that doesn't make things any easier at all for you. So if you got to a 9 week scan this time with everything still perfect, this would be the furthest you've ever got? I'm really hopeful that this is going to work out for you now! I am on leave from work as i had a really stressful long hours job and couldn't cope with that and all the mc's. Never had a sick day in 8 years and now this! My husband works from home so he looks after me, I am lucky but I do miss working and just want everything to be back to normal again with a baby! But i also think that it's best to give yourself every possible chance to make these babies work and lack of stress + more rest can only be a good thing can't it? Will be thinking of you in the next ten days, can't be easy for you but i bet you're a bit excited too! x


----------



## petitpas

Thanks, filipenko. Yes, 8.5 weeks is the furthest I have been with a heartbeat. I went to 11.5 weeks with my first pregnancy but only because I didn't have an earlier scan.
I'm sorry, I'm not excited right now :nope: I'm fearful of the pain and loss of hope I will have to go through if this treatment fails.
I have a plan B and plan C up my sleeve so I am not ready to give up yet. I don't mean to put a downer on anyone but myself so ignore my negative tone if you can.
There is hope, I'm just finding it hard to grasp at the moment.


----------



## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Thanks, filipenko. Yes, 8.5 weeks is the furthest I have been with a heartbeat. I went to 11.5 weeks with my first pregnancy but only because I didn't have an earlier scan.
> I'm sorry, I'm not excited right now :nope: I'm fearful of the pain and loss of hope I will have to go through if this treatment fails.
> I have a plan B and plan C up my sleeve so I am not ready to give up yet. I don't mean to put a downer on anyone but myself so ignore my negative tone if you can.
> There is hope, I'm just finding it hard to grasp at the moment.

I don't think I will ever be excited about a pregnancy again until I am at least 24 weeks. I know you'll get there, I just know it but I completely understand your non-excitement. It's just not fair that this road is so bumpy for some of us but the end result will be the same and i will be excited for you in your place! :hugs:


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## filipenko32

Ladies, I am not 'legal' on this thread anymore as I am not taking steroids and won't be for my next pregnancy, unless I am definitively diagnosed with an immune problem and I don't intend to see a specialist for that JUST yet. However, I wish you all the very best of luck and I will certainly stalk from time to time. The only thing i know about the Prednisolone I was taking is that it drastically improved the heartrate of my last pregnancy so I really hope it works for you all. If I do start on a proper course of steroids, I'll be back to join the experiment & i'll let you know, for now I am sticking to heparin, aspirin, progesterone, a wing and a prayer! x x x


----------



## Gingersnaps

petitpas said:


> Hi ginger, I have read that thyroid issues, if uncontrolled, can cause recurrent miscarriage. Once you are on the right meds that should be fine, though.
> 
> Endo can be a problem with conception and put you at risk of ectopics but is not normally a cause of miscarriages.
> 
> I don't know how coeliac disease affects pregnancies.
> 
> However, the fact that you have a number of things going on could be a sign of a generally aggressive immune system according to Dr Beer's book, and might warrant nk cell testing. It is probably worth discussing with your RE.
> 
> It could very well be that by fixing your thyroid problem you have found the issue and go on to have your healthy baby.
> 
> My sister has IBS and hypothyroidism. She fell pregnant immediately once her meds were at the right dose and had a wonderfully uncomplicated pregnancy. Oh how jealous I am of her :haha:
> 
> Let us know how you get on with your RE. I really hope everything works out well for you :hugs:

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. :flower:
I am familiar with thyroid issues, endo etc and their relationship to miscarriage - problems with conceiving. 
I was just wondering what issues women on steroids usually have that they are given steroids for... Ie what particular cases are given steroids - is it only for those who test pos for NK cells? Or is is for immune/immunological issues in general?


----------



## petitpas

As far as I know the steroids are only given for high nk cells or similar (there are various related blood tests) or the suspicion of (not everyone gets tested).
I don't believe steroids are standard treatment for any auto immune issue. For instance, there are a couple of ladies on here with lupus and as far as I know they are not on steroids. I might be wrong, though.
Have you read Dr Beer's book? He mentions that people with endometriosis etc have a higher likelihood of high nk cells, that it is all related. In my opinion the book is a little biased but it makes for an interesting read...


----------



## LeeC

Well I have my steroids at the ready for my next attempt. I am feeling strangely excited about trying again, although I know all the nerves and panic won't take long to set in.
I figure I OV on the 11th Nov, 3 days after my appt with Shehata. I will be bd from about the 7th of the month incase Im early (like to cover every eventuality) and will probs start the steroids on the 12th.

I agree with you all I don't think I'll ever be able to fully enjoy being pg, even after first trimester I reckon I'll still be a bag of nerves, probs even worse. I suppose for now I'm gonna concentrate on that BFP and my imminent appt, then I'm hoping those little pills work their magic :)


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## LeeC

Just a quick note:

Prednisolone suppresses the immune system, which in turn should stop your body rejecting the baby (ie attacked by NK cells).

It is also given to people who have had organ transplants to stop the body from rejecting the organs.

My dog was also given pred recently when she was diagnosed with high liver enzymes and mammary cancer.

The list goes on for this little drug.


----------



## Myjourney2011

petitpas said:


> As far as I know the steroids are only given for high nk cells or similar (there are various related blood tests) or the suspicion of (not everyone gets tested).
> I don't believe steroids are standard treatment for any auto immune issue. For instance, there are a couple of ladies on here with lupus and as far as I know they are not on steroids. I might be wrong, though.
> Have you read Dr Beer's book? He mentions that people with endometriosis etc have a higher likelihood of high nk cells, that it is all related. In my opinion the book is a little biased but it makes for an interesting read...


Hello. Am new to this thread and also going through what most of the ladies are. I have lost 4 usually within the 4 to 6 weeks mark due to very high NK cells (2.86 instead of 0.8) and have started the Dr S protocol. I just wanted to know how thigs are for you if thats ok?


----------



## petitpas

Hi myjourney, welcome to the thread!
I saw Mr S today for a scan and it was very emotional as I was surprised to find my ducky still alive! We are not out of the woods yet but I am starting to think that there is a possibility this might work? This next week is absolutely critical for ducky...

Good luck with ttc-ing! Where are you at in your cycle?


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## filipenko32

That's just brilliant news Petitpas!! SO pleased for you. I was thinking about you earlier and thinking you must be close to getting to 9 weeks. I know you're not out of the woods yet but it does sound so promising :headspin: :happydance: :wohoo: :headspin: Keeping everything crossed for you


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## petitpas

Hi sodog :wave:
I'm on 25mg until 12w and then wean off.
What's your story?


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## Lawa

Just looked in not been on in ags teething 17 week old fun! 

Petipas get you girly xxx


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## petitpas

Oh dear, Lawa, I hope someone is helping you out so you get some sleep from time to time :haha:

Still keeping fingers crossed. Our next scan will show whether we made it through the critical time, I think...fxfxfx


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## Lawa

My OH is pretty good but were dealing with teething and 4 month sleep regression all in one! sleep deprivation is great!


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## heyhey

really need steriods? why is it some women dont need them. 

Good luck girls.


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## petitpas

Heyhey, sorry, I don't understand where your question is coming from?


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## filipenko32

Good luck in the next few days petitpas, really rooting for you!!


----------



## weeyaosi

Good luck ladies


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## petitpas

Thanks for all the good luck wishes coming in!
Does anyone have an update on how they are doing?


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## leylak

Hello ladies, I found this thread through petitpas. I don't know if I belong here, I had only one MC but I am on steroids because I have high anti thyroid antibodies (Hashimoto's). My dr thinks my MMC (at 8w, one week after we found perfect hb) was caused by this so he put me on 0.5 mg dexamethasone. This is my 3rd cycle on it. I use it daily. 
Good luck to all!


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## petitpas

Hi leylak and welcome to the club!
I have read that hashimoto's can cause miscarriage so it is great that this was found after your kiss (still sad you had to lose one though :cry:)
I'll add you to the list on the first page!


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## beachlover1

so girls, how are you all? sorry been away for a bit. Right i had my NK results today. they were borderline even after 7 weeks of steroids...so without them she said they would be "rather high" the plan is for 20mg of pred as soon as i get a BFP AND progesterone too. 

AF came today :-( so fingers crossed for 16 days time!!!!!!


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## Hope39

leylak said:


> Hello ladies, I found this thread through petitpas. I don't know if I belong here, I had only one MC but I am on steroids because I have high anti thyroid antibodies (Hashimoto's). My dr thinks my MMC (at 8w, one week after we found perfect hb) was caused by this so he put me on 0.5 mg dexamethasone. This is my 3rd cycle on it. I use it daily.
> Good luck to all!

Hi Leylak

I have an underactive thyroid, not been diagnosed with anti thyroid antibodies as yet but i had a blood test for it yesterday so will know in about 3 weeks

I seen Professor Quenby yesterday and she has recently been researching recurrent miscarriages in ladies with thyroid problems. She told me my TSH level was "really really bad" and was quite adamant really that my undertactive thyroid was the reason i have had 3 mmc.

She doubled my meds of thyroxine straighaway and i am under strict instruction not to try to conceive until my tsh level is under 2.5

Prof Q has just started a trial for this but my tsh level is too bad to put me on the trial!


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## leylak

Hope, thank you very much. I am sorry for your losses :(
Last January when I fell pg, I got blood tests and my TSH was below 2 back then. After the MC, on the day of D&C, I had another test and my TSH was still low. So I think the cause of the MC was not hypothyroidsm. Last september, I went to a new doctor because I wasn't conceiving. This time, my TSH was 2.7 and we found I had high anti TPO and anti Tg. I started levothyoxine and dexamethasone. Also, I go to the dr once a month to check follicles and determine HCG shot and intercourse timing. It is not working but we also have a male factor. I heard that %50 percent of women with Hashimoto's have activated NK cells. (Mine wasn't checked) People say Hashi's is not a concern because many women with that have uncomplicated pregnancies. But maybe they are among lucky 50% who do not have activated NK cells...


----------



## Lawa

Pet not sure if you want to add me to the first page x 

7 MC baby born 11/7/11 20mg pred from BFP x


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## petitpas

Good idea, Lawa to have a success story on the front page :thumbup:


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## leylak

I think steroids are working! My thyroid antibody levels have fallen! (Still way above the upper limit, though) I have also been gluten free for some time and maybe that contributed, too.
I asked my dr about NK cells. He said that he asks for its test after failed IVF attempts because the test and treatment is very expensive and only 1-2% of failed IVF cases show problems related to NK cells. :shrug: I am taking steroids (being treated), so I am fine with not being tested for NK cells for the time being.
xx


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## filipenko32

Hi Petitpas, how's everything going with you?


----------



## petitpas

Leylak, well done on those levels coming down! Will you be having monthly tests until they are within the desired range?

I think you are right and can save yourself some money by not having the nkcell tests since you are already on the treatment.

Fingers crossed for you fxfxfxfx

As for me, I'm at 10+4 and my baby is still alive!


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## petitpas

I see you are about to ovulate, filipenko?!
Here is a little extra :dust: for you fxfxfxfx


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## leylak

No, I will not be having monthly tests. I don't know when I will have test next. Last time I asked for this second test, my dr said no, it is too early for levels to fall but then changed his mind and ordered. The first two tests were 3 months apart so once a month is too frequent it seems. If I fall pg soon, maybe then I will get another test. Real success is getting pg rather than getting levels down.

BTW I have been stalking your journal and rooting for ducky :)


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## filipenko32

Thanks, keeping my fingers tightly crossed that you get to your 12 week scan!! :yipee:

I actually ovulated 5 days after the bfn after my mc iykwim! We even tried then but no joy! I'm hoping this cycle is the one. Just out of interest, did you evr get an amh test done?


----------



## petitpas

Nope, I don't think so. Unless it is part of the day 3 or day 21 tests? Those came back normal for me.


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## filipenko32

Morning ladies, hope you're all well. Finding myself back on this thread again as we went to see another consultant and he referrred me to Professor Brosens who I think is part of the Quenby team that i have heard a lot of ladies talk about. Have you ever heard of this 'superfertility' theory where women who have rpl are superfertile because our womb's implant anything (for want of a better way of putting it!!) even chromo abnormal embies?
Well maybe we're not going ttt this cycle after all as I think I will be going for this biopsy in Warwick. My only question is what is the treatment if you're diagnosed?


----------



## petitpas

If you go on Prof Quenby's treatment programme, I think it is very similar to the one I am on except that you only start with the steroids when you have a bfp (I started at ovulation). She seems to have good success rates and is currently running a large trial :thumbup:

I have had the super fertility theory mentioned to me but I don't think it applies. I had my last baby tested and it came back genetically normal. I think that in my case I am just incredibly lucky to have fallen pregnant so quickly each time but was unlucky to have an immune system that killed the babies.
I did have two early losses (6&7 weeks), which I assume to have been genetically 'off' but that number is well within the normal rates. It's the other three losses I needed treatment for.

Oh, and the treatment seems to be working! I saw Mr S this morning who reckons we are out of the danger zone and can consider this a normal pregnancy...! I so hope he is right!


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## filipenko32

Petitpas I am sooooo pleased for you, I think about you every day and hope your LO keeps going!!!! I might need to know exactly what you did as I have just found out my last loss was a normal male fetus and the doctor thinks my other pregancies which followed similar patterns were normal too. I'm devastated and have just spent 2 hours crying but in a way glad that this now means I can concentrate on steroids / blood thinners etc. So what exactly did you do if you don't mind me asking?


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## petitpas

Ok, so I have a clotting problem anyway. I have Factor V Leiden but most importantly I suffered a dvt and pulmonary emboli even before falling pregnant. For the clotting I was put on low molecular weight heparin (lmwh) injections and baby aspirin. In previous pregnancies I was on one injection/day but my blood results were on the low side so they doubled my injections recently. I'm a bit extreme, though, and this doubling up certainly isn't standard treatment. If you come up with a clotting issue then it will be once/day for you (phew).

The steroids, vitamin D and Omega 3 supplements were all new this time round and part of Mr S's plan.

Here is the summary:
Fragmin - a brand of lmwh - 5,000iu 2x daily - from bfp
Prednisolone - a corticosteroid - 25mg 1x daily -from positive opk
Baby aspirin - 1x daily - throughout cycle
Folic acid - 5mg 1x daily - throughout cycle
Cyclogest progesterone suppositories - 400mg 1x daily - from about 2dpo
Vitamin D - 1,000iu 1x daily - throughout cycle
Pregnacare Plus Omega 3 (two different pills in one pack) - 1x daily - throughout cycle

I also stopped working which allowed me to destress and sleep during the day.

So, quite a list!
I also lost a 'healthy' boy before this pregnancy (with lmwh, aspirin, cyclogest, high folic acid) and I know how devastating it is to get the results through :hugs:
At the same time you now have proof in your hands that something is still amiss. You are not hyperfertile in that your womb accepts any old egg. You lost a healthy baby and you have an issue that needs fixing. Whatever treatment you were on up until now was not enough but you have a plan and you are seeing the right people. You are being a great future mummy by seeking out that help and I am sure your little angels are proudly watching you :hugs:


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## filipenko32

Thanks so much Petitpas that's really useful to know I am printing it out and putting it in my mc file (yes I have a very organised file FULL of test results etc, so sad), so sorry you had normal losses too, it's devastating isn't it? I am trying not to think of what they *would* have been. Think I am going to need some spiritual guidance of some sort. How do you cope with this? 
I will discuss all those treatments with my doctor. I think that no stress is really important too. I think you have to do everything you can for your body when you're losing normal babies. Funnily enough I did have an appt booked with Mr S, they even still have my £50 deposit. I'm cancelling the appointment I had with the IVF/ PGD clinic as that would have obviously done me no good whatsoever! So I'm going to try to get an appt with Mr S next week, I have the Quenby clinic in Warwick probably in 3 weeks and the recurrent miscarriage clinic at St Mary's on the 6th December. Surely someone can help us!! I understand that mc's can be a mix of normal and abnormal but was it finding about the normal loss which made you think it was 'your body' or did you suspect already because of the factor V and blood clot? Thanks again


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## filipenko32

Petitpas sorry, would you mind telling me from when you started taking everything you outlined above like you know CD 1 or before ov (maybe just quickly edit what you wrote) I'm sure you've got better things to do but thanks so much!


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## petitpas

List updated!
I have a folder, too. It's broken due to overuse so I am going to have to get a new one soon :haha:

I really don't know how to help you with the spiritual side. It is so hard to deal with! I just cried a lot after each loss and then slowly picked myself up as I formulated a new plan for my next pregnancy. I truly believed that clotting was my problem after my second loss. With my first I wasn't put on the heparin until it was too late, with my second I flew to the States twice so we thought that might have aggravated my clotting. Then my third and fourth were early losses which was purely bad luck and I can tell you I was very angry and frustrated at that! I had all my hopes pinned on my fifth so when that one died it was a huge shock for me! Doctors were still telling me it might be bad luck but I got the test results that proved them wrong.
St Mary's decided to put me on the waiting list for a hysteroscopy but I wasn't convinced and wanted to avoid further surgeries (I've had six over the past two years). At that point my husband and I decided to give Mr S a try.

I see that you are planning three appointments coming up. Do you mind if I give you my opinion on it? I know you want to try everything but I fear that by seeing everyone at once you might be muddying the waters. Prof Q and Mr S use very similar treatments despite their tests being different (blood test vs biopsy) so I am not sure what the point would be in seeing both? St Mary's are very methodical and cover all the classical causes. They also use the TEG test which is not available elsewhere. You could see them first and go on to nkcells if nothing is found? Or combine with one of the immunologists?

Sorry, I am finding it difficult to put my thoughts into words today. What I am trying to say is maybe pick a specialist and trust them to help you. If they don't come up with a solution then move on.

Obviously, it is your decision and not an easy one to make :hugs: there is so much at stake. But help is out there and the reason for your losses might be quite straightforward and easy to treat!

Big big :hug: and keep fighting! :ninja:


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## filipenko32

Aww thanks petipas, yes you're so right, i think i'm going to end up very confused!! :loopy: I will have a rethink when my head is clearer tomorrow. You are a very brave lady and you're going to be on :cloud9: forever more x x x I will keep fighting, I like the ninja, it made me laugh!


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## petitpas

:ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja:


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## filipenko32

:haha:


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## BFPSeeker

Hi guys can I join you?

I am with Dr Shehata after 3 losses. Been on steroids for 2 cycles now - got a BFN today :nope:. I just can't stand the waiting I just want to be pregnant again to see if these steroids are going to work for me!!


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## petitpas

Hi bfpseeker and welcome to the club! So sorry you had to suffer three losses in the process :hugs:

If it helps, I'm 11 weeks today (listened to heartbeat this morning) thanks to Mr S.

I really hope you get your Christmas bfp so you can try the treatment for yourself! In the meantime, I'm popping you on the front page...


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## LeeC

Hey BFP. I will be on the steroids again in December and also with Mr S. I'm hoping to get a cheeky little BFP for Xmas and like you will be keen to see if the steroids will work for me too this time.
It's inspiring to read the success stories though.
Good luck.
Pip, that little hb must have been like sweet music to your ears :)


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## filipenko32

Petitpas can I just ask, did you take the pregnacare vitamin tablet too or just the oil?


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## BFPSeeker

Thanks petit pas , congratulations on getting so far this time that's such good news . Thanks leec , I see you are in Glasgow , I'm in Edinburgh . It's a pain getting to London to see dr s isn't it . I've been up since 4.30 this morning to fly down as he wanted to see me after 2 cycles on the steroids . Hopefully it will all b worth it tho !


----------



## LeeC

Hi BFP. Yip, I'm the same had to leave at 5.30am to get to airport, it's a long day. Where are are you seeing him. At his clinic or at St Helier. Wish he would run a clinic up here in Scotland.

Filipenkpo, sorry to hi-jack your question to Pip. If it helps I am on the Pregnacare, additional folic acid, vitamin D and aspirin along with the oil. It's quite a combination x.


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## petitpas

Filipenko, exactly as Lee says! Pregnacare Plus comes with two different pills, which I both take. And all the other stuff...

I've just loaded a vid of the heartbeat into my journal. Well, I'm pretty sure it's ducky's heartbeat :shock:
I'm not having a scan this week so it is very reassuring to be able to listen in.

BFP, I hope your appointment today is useful. I'd be really annoyed if I flew all the way down just for a blood pressure check!

Do you have something nice planned for the rest of the day at least?


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## BFPSeeker

That's pretty much what it will be I think ! But I do want to talk to dr s about the fact that the steroids seem to be cutting my luteal phase by 2 days ... I ve been seeing him at harley st so it's an excuse to shop ! Need a lot of retail therapy these days !


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## petitpas

Ah, see, if there is another reason to come down then it is shopping :yipee:

I hope you enjoy the rest of your day!


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## filipenko32

Does anyone have an opinion on intralipid treatment? I think it's a drip with a mixture of fats and soy! I am going to be in Dr S's office next Wednesday on the very day of ovulation. Since we want to ttc this cycle does anyone think that starting steroids at ov is too late? I have just been 'speaking' to another lady who started 25mg prednisolone at ov and she has since had 2 healthy boys on the same treatment +hep + asp + progest. Gosh these miscarriage drugs are going to do wonders for the waist line. A fatty drip and steroids - the glamour! Little black dress is staying at the back of the wardrobe this christmas then...


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## petitpas

Mon n Jon is on intralipids so she can help you with more details but I read somewhere (sorry, really can't remember where) that the calorie content of the drip isn't as bad as it sounds - somewhere around 200 per drip. I think the steroid hunger will do more damage :D who cares, though? Our intention is to get fat isn't it?

As for starting the steroids at ovulation, I think that's about the earliest you can start. Some doctors only let you start when you have a bfp. However, I'm not sure you'll be prescribed the steroids prior to testing so hmmm maybe reconsider ttc this month?


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## filipenko32

Thanks pip, well I've already got a set of NK cells results from a blood test so I'm hoping that will do and he'll be able to diagnose there and then. I really just want to get the ball rolling this month but will see what he says. Nahhh don't really care about calories but do want to get fat for a good reason!!


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## petitpas

Ooh, fingers crossed for you then!


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## beachlover1

Hi all, just popped in to say hello and see how everyone is!! I ovulated 2 days ago...have covered all bases re DTD so here I wait, steroids and progesterone at the ready to test in 9 days time!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xxx


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## petitpas

Oooh-eeee! Exciting! :dust::dust::dust: for you!!!


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## filipenko32

Good luck Beach!!


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## killyouli

you are now on the list


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## filipenko32

Ok, I can be part of this trial now! Since my results came back and the last mc was a chromosomally normally boy I will be starting the steroids at 2dpo. Put me on the list Pip!!


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## petitpas

killyouli said:


> you are now on the list

Another list?


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## filipenko32

I am 2dpo ovulation today and took 25mg pred today. My regular ob put me on 10mg steroids but I am taking 25mg and seeing dr S tomorrow. I am quite sure he'll keep me on 25mg empirically won't he? I do have that nk blood test I had done at another clinic to show him. Not waiting another month - too late now anyway. :blush: I am feeling out of it and craving beef with pickled onions badly - already!!? :wacko: How is everyone else?


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## hopeful23456

hi fili - my RE has me on 20 mg as empricle from bfp (i started them 11 dpiui so before beta test) - your Dr should keep you on the 25 mg


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## filipenko32

Hi hopeful, thanks! I am a bit worried about the side effects but hopefully it will be worth it! How far along are you now?


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## petitpas

Good luck with your appointment, filipenko!!!


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## filipenko32

Thanks Pip it's tomorrow at 4 so of course I will let you all know. I really just want him to tell me my initial blood results look high even though they're prob unreliable and for him to give me:- more steroids, reassurance that this will be it and send me on my way! I was reading back through this thread to look for what everyone said about the side effects. One thing I had last time as I remember (on a low dose of 10mg) was quite a few high moods! Hoping for more of those! But I also remember those headaches... :wacko: It will be worth it for my :baby: Hey Pip what do you think about the heartrate going up so much in my last pregnancy after steroids? It was this fact that made my regular ob give me 10mg for after ov. Do you think that could be a sign the steroids could work for me? I know i'm clasping at straws!


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## petitpas

Filipenko, I think it sounds promising but you should just keep an open mind until you see Mr S tomorrow. He really is very nice and will tell it to you as it is. I have my fingers crossed fxfxfxfx

(just one more sleep!)


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## petitpas

Hopeful, I've added you to the list on the front page :)


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## filipenko32

yes only one more sleep!


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## hopeful23456

thanks pip!

fili - i dont think i have any side effects from it and i think it keeps morning sickness away (i've read they actually prescribe it somtimes for morning sickness)
- i'm just really tired and hungry all the time (the hunger could be side effect but could be preg hunger) i'm 5 weeks today. i don't mine the prednisone at all - maybe i'll miss taking it when i'm off of it ;) I take it around noon each day as I've heard it can make you not sleep but I haven't found that to be the case either.


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## filipenko32

Really hoping this is it for you Hopeful! :hugs: I will be stalking you! If you don't mind :blush: x x


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## hopeful23456

i love stalkers and am stalking you right back


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## filipenko32

Lee I really hope the following doesn't upset you. I was in 2 minds whether to post here but then I thought it might help others who read this post in the future. But just to warn you that the content may be a bit of a reminder of your recent news and upsetting you is the LAST thing I want to do :hugs: :hugs: 






Well I am back from Dr S's and have a result. He has diagnosed me with very high NK cells. I am a little shocked to be honest. So he was about to send us on our way as we have been ttc and I have been following his steroid plan since ov (told him this & he wasn't pleased) - he said he can't treat us without test results and so we should come back next month & not ttc. So I said, "Well I had the test done after my second miscarriage so they may not be reliable but..." He snatched them out of my hand and immediately said just what you said Pip on this thread a few months ago when I typed up my results for you to analyse. He said that they were from the same company he uses called The Doctor's Lab and so he could rely on them. So 25mg steroids and intralipid treatment for me. Moving to 40mg when pregnant. Good job I started taking aspirin and the steroids 1 day after ov then! I am a little shocked tbh as I thought my problem would be mainly blood clotting. He said we couldn't have a successful pregnancy without steroids. He wasn't pleased that I managed to get a random clinic to do the NK cell test months ago with no doctor to supervise. But then I just watned everything tested and they weren't going to refuse the money obviously. I am a rebel, but I am secretly pleased I started my treatment myself and was proactive as now I am completely on track treatment-wise! Hope this works out or where else do we turn?


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## filipenko32

Hopeful do you follow Dr S's program?


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## petitpas

Filipenko, you rebel! :rofl:
I'm glad you are being seen by Mr S now as steroids aren't harmless and really shouldn't be taken unsupervised. Crikey, you'll have fun with the higher dose :haha:
Fingers crossed you get a bfp soon and can use the new treatment to make yourself a sticky bubs fxfxfxfxfx


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## filipenko32

Thanks pip, yeah I want one like yours! Sticky!


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## lexi374

:hi: everyone, sorry to gatecrash hope you dont mind?! :hugs:

I have had 3 miscarriages and have just had results from a uterine biopsy with Professor Quenby, she said NK cells are high at 10.2%, the upper end of normal is 5%.

I just wondered how high is high compared with others, and has anyone else followed her plan and had success? :hugs:


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## petitpas

Hi Lexi, I'm on Mr Shehata's plan which has different test results so we can't compare like for like. Our treatment plans are very similar, though. I was on 25mg from ovulation. I think you will be on a similar dose from bfp?
Would you like me to add you to the list on the front page?


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## filipenko32

Hi Lexi! Me too (read above) mine were 12.7 %! I am on 25mg from ov + aspirin etc.


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## lexi374

I think she said 20 mg from bfp but will know more when i speak to her. 

Thanks that would be great :hugs:

Congrats on ducky by the way! Stalked this thread and recurrent miscarriage thread on and off for a while! :blush: x


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## lexi374

:hi: Fili! You with Mr s too?

I toyed between the 2 and went for Quenby in the end x


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## filipenko32

Oh no Lexi sorry I am on Doc S's plan but not sure how our results would compare as mine is blood...


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## lexi374

Thats ok :hugs:

Anyone else been with Quenby? x


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## filipenko32

Lexi nice to see another familiar face on here! :hugs: Did you ever have the chromosomes tested on your baby. I had them done for this last miscarriage and so that's what pointed me in the direction of immune problems.


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## lexi374

No not that i know of, i had an erpc with the 1st and 3rd but no one ever said anything to me.

Its only from spending hours on the internet that i read up on NK cells and immune problems. I have Crohn's disease which is an auto immune disease.

Most of the docs ive seen have been useless and just wanna give you the bad luck speach, im sick of hearing it! And im angry that i have to research and pay for tests myself to get answers! :growlmad: x


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## filipenko32

Yeah! I felt exactly the same way and did exactly the same thing. We really have to fight to get somewhere with these miscarriages don't we!? It's such a shame you couldn't have the treatment sooner :hugs:


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## petitpas

Sorry to read you had a bit of a runaround, Lexi. I take it your local recurrent miscarriage clinic ran all the standard (not nkcell) tests but didn't find anything?

I am sure you are aware that Prof Quenby is running a trial to prove the effectiveness of steroids and nkcell testing? Hopefully, that will put the testing and treatment into the hands of the NHS :thumbup:
My three months of steroid pills are certainly much cheaper than another D&C!


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## hopeful23456

Hi fili- glad you got some answers! I am in the states so not on dr s plan but my re clinic puts you on pred and lov from bfp if you have rpl and they dont know why. Probably because there are some big clinics here that do that for rpl (dr beer for example)

I had nk cell blood test - my cd3-/cd16+cd56+ (%) is 11%. The test says normal range is 4-25%. BUT I read somewhere that the upper level of 25% is normal for cancer patients so who knows. That's why I don't believe the tests are really normal although they are in the "normal" range as they say. 
I've also read that uterine biopsy nk cell test is better to determine the levels as focuses on uterus but who knows. If dr s does blood level test I would believe him. 

Also my test was taken 11 days after my early m/c end of aug but my hcg was already way low- it went from 1155 to 256 two days later and my bloods were 11 days after that.

Here is a good website that lists out the tests and explains them too
www.labtestsonline.org

Just choose your test from the drop down menu on the right.

Found this on nk cells:

Secondly, the percentage of CD56+ NK cells in peripheral blood in normal healthy individuals varies from 5% to 29%.8 Despite this, a finding of more than 12% NK cells in women with infertility or miscarriage has been arbitrarily defined as abnormally raised and used as an indication for treatment.9 The percentage of NK cells in blood can be affected by many factors including sex, ethnicity, stress, and age, but there is no indication that concentrations in the upper end of the normal range are ever harmful.


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## filipenko32

Aww thanks hopeful, that's really interesting and kind of you. :hugs: :hugs: 

Can anyone help! My next worry /question is does taking 25mg pred affect your cycles on a bfn cycle? So along with progesterone and prednis, if I wasn't pregnant this month, would I expect my period to start a little later than normal? Also does it take longer to get pregant whilst on steroids? Thanks! :flow:


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## petitpas

Filipenko, I believe that in theory you are supposed to fall pregnant more easily whilst on the prednisolone as your body will be more welcoming to babies. That's why they sometimes use it in IVF to treat women who have suffered a number of failed cycles.

I had a bfn my first cycle (we didn't put much effort into that one tbh) and then went on to get a bfp the next. 

There are a number of factors that can affect your cycle: Taking aspirin daily can delay ovulation, taking progesterone can delay af, taking prednisolone can affect ovulation.
Personally, I didn't notice much of a difference with any of the drugs. Maybe a slightly longer lp with the progesterone but mine was short anyway so :shrug:

I would try not to worry about it but be open to things being slightly off so if you always ovulate on day 14 maybe double check with opks and temping. If you're not sure, keep on dtd.
The good news is that though annoying these changes in your cycle shouldn't affect your ability to fall pregnant. The only bad case is if you don't ovulate at all but I think at this point we know our bodies well enough that we would notice. Plus, I can't think of anyone where that has happened.


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## filipenko32

Thanks so much pip, good of you to reply. I temp and opk like a madwoman so i know i definitely ov'd this cycle. What you said makes sense and it obviously hasn't affected lots of ladies including you so :wacko: maybe it was a silly question. I am just so eager to get a bfp as so many things are different this time having had a d&c for one of them. I was reading through the treamtent plan before, are you scared of coming off the drugs? I would be if I ever get that far but I'm sure he must know what he's doing! Dr S is just deciding whether to put me on heparin as all my blood clotting results show no pattern whatsoever and there's a protein s result which decides to be abnormal now and again. I really want the injections too just to cover all bases but might have to accept doctor's orders on that one. Did your steroid side effects die down after a while? I haven't really noticed anything yet on 25mg for 3 days.


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## RGN

Hi Ladies - 

I've only just found this thread and haven't yet read through the whole thing but was hoping you could answer a question (apologies in advance if this has been asked/answered before)...

Have all of you ladies tested positive for immune issues/NK cells, etc.? Or do you take steriods just a precautionary measure? 

Apparently I don't have any immune issues but am wondering if I should press for steriods anyway? I want to do anything/everything I can to reduce the chance of miscarriage. I'll already be taking asprin, lovenox, progesterone in oil, vitamin D, metformin, and mentax (folic acid).


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## filipenko32

Hi RGN :wave: I just found out my results yesterday from a blood test I had a few months ago. Mine were exceptionally high according to Dr S but I have to say that I was ready set go for trying steroids anyway. In fact my old ob-gyn put me on 10mg after ov on the off chance they may work, but Dr S put me on 25mg after ov. My old ob-gyn's reasoning was that the heartrate went up when he put me on 10 mg steroid at 6 weeks pregnant- NO idea why he did this as Dr S says this would not have made any difference and heartrates go up and down anyway. So i started to take the 25mg of steroid 2 days BEFORE i saw Dr S as I was willing to give anything a go. Luckily that was the right thing to do as my levels were high but I never knew that would be the case and so i was a bot naughty really. As it turns out I can just continue the treatment programme this cycle as i've been following it anyway. He told me off though and said they were serious drugs and not to be messed with, with no evidence to back it up. Would I have carried on taking the steroids with no results this cycle? Quite probably tbh. Kind of got to thinking that if I don't do something different i'm gonna get the same result... Just my opinion though obviously. what tests ahve you had done for immune issues? Is your FET transfer drawing near now!!? Hope that's helpful x x


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## petitpas

Filipenko, I totally felt the steroids when I started taking them! I was constantly hungry and I was buzzing by the afternoon. I ended up taking the pills late morning so the biggest buzz was at the end of my working day and I felt I was less likely to embarrass myself :haha:
When I stopped the pills after a bfn I had horrible headaches for three days.
My next cycle the buzzing ebbed off after a few days and things became easier much faster. I am still eating really often but I'm pretty sure that is a combination of ducky calling for food and me trying to ward off the sicky feeling. :haha:

You won't believe it but I am already weaning off the steroids: I am down to 15mg/day and my baby is still alive (used doppler this morning). I'm not too worried. Mr S has done this plenty of times - he knows what he's doing!


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## petitpas

RGN, I have a clotting issue, which we addressed with injections and aspirin. Then I still lost a healthy baby so I was tested for nkcells and that came back positive so I am on steroids.

Have you had all the other recurrent miscarriage tests? Did anything come up positive?

To be honest, I wouldn't suggest dabbling with steroids on your own. They are strong drugs and you need to be under medical supervision. What is your doctor saying?


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## filipenko32

RGN - I have found that Petitpas is always right so I would listen to her!

Pip - I am not really feeling much! In what way were you buzzing? Also I forgot to ask dr s what his success rates were, do you know?


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## filipenko32

That's just fantastic that you're coming off them already!! So happy for you!!!!! :happydance: :yipee:


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## RGN

Hi filipenko! Fancy seeing you here :) Thanks for sharing. Given your high NK cells I imagine steriods will make a significant difference for you! Sounds like you're on the right track.

I don't actually have details on all the auto immune tests that have been run. My RE walked through them with me in her office (tested normal on all of them) but for some reason I didn't take notes that day so can't remember what was tested. She assured me that she had run a comprehensive panel. And honestly I haven't done a whole lot of reasearch on immune issues so don't really know what questions to ask ... yet. 

I did ask her about steriods once before, but she said given my issues (with the blood clotting disorders) that lovenox was all I needed but I'm going to raise it again and find out what, if any, downside there would be to adding steriods to the mix 'just in case.'

I am moving forward with my FET ... taking estrace 3x daily now. I have a scan on Monday to check my lining so will learn more then but they currently estimate my transfer will be around Dec. 14!


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## RGN

Petitpas - Thanks for your response. My NK cells are normal. 

I definitely wouldn't take anything without my doctor's orders. Was just curious if other doctors were prescribing steriods as a preventative measure for recurrent miscarraige - even to those without immune problems, but seems the answer is no.

Thanks again for the input!

ETA - I've also had all the recurrent pregnancy loss panels done and that's when they found my blood clotting issues (MTHFR & PAI-1). I was on asprin and lovenox during my last pregnancy but miscarried anyway.


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## filipenko32

RGN said:


> Petitpas - Thanks for your response. My NK cells are normal.
> 
> I definitely wouldn't take anything without my doctor's orders. Was just curious if other doctors were prescribing steriods as a preventative measure for recurrent miscarraige - even to those without immune problems, but seems the answer is no.
> 
> Thanks again for the input!

Good luck with the transfer RGN!! I will be keeping everything crossed for you! Definitely think it's worth double checking with your doctor about the steroids but sounds like you don't need them at all :happydance: I really hope it all works out for you! :hugs:


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## hopeful23456

Rgn- I technically don't have immune issues but am on steroids and lov as they can't find anything wrong per the tests. Some tests are close to being out of range but they technically are not.


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## petitpas

RGN, so you have been diagnosed with clotting issues? Was this before you had the miscarriages or recently?

Most women I have seen on here who were diagnosed with clotting issues seem to have been successful with heparin and aspirin or just aspirin on its own :thumbup:
So that's great news!

I can understand you wanting the steroids, too. It is so hard thinking there is something else you could be taking that might spare you the horror of another loss :hugs:
Ultimately, only you and your doctor can decide on what is the best way forward for you.

Just one thing I would like to say about your story is... 57 eggs?! OUCHY! Well done you!!! :thumbup: I hope you are all recovered now!


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## lexi374

petitpas said:


> Sorry to read you had a bit of a runaround, Lexi. I take it your local recurrent miscarriage clinic ran all the standard (not nkcell) tests but didn't find anything?
> 
> I am sure you are aware that Prof Quenby is running a trial to prove the effectiveness of steroids and nkcell testing? Hopefully, that will put the testing and treatment into the hands of the NHS :thumbup:
> My three months of steroid pills are certainly much cheaper than another D&C!

Yes i went to the J.R. Oxford which is not my local hospital but my gp said they would be better, we both had bloods taken 10 weeks ago and im still waiting for a letter with results!!! I do know they are all normal though as i emailed him a couple of weeks ago to find out, he said a letter would be sent out shortly!! So who knows when that will arrive, not that im expecting anything from it. 

Will see what prof q says tom, really should write a few ?s down before i call her.

:hugs: to all xx


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## RGN

petitpas said:


> RGN, so you have been diagnosed with clotting issues? Was this before you had the miscarriages or recently?
> 
> Most women I have seen on here who were diagnosed with clotting issues seem to have been successful with heparin and aspirin or just aspirin on its own :thumbup:
> So that's great news!
> 
> I can understand you wanting the steroids, too. It is so hard thinking there is something else you could be taking that might spare you the horror of another loss :hugs:
> Ultimately, only you and your doctor can decide on what is the best way forward for you.
> 
> Just one thing I would like to say about your story is... 57 eggs?! OUCHY! Well done you!!! :thumbup: I hope you are all recovered now!


I was diagnosed with the clotting issues after my second loss. For my third pregnancy, I was on asprin and lovenox but still miscarried. :wacko: I do think that third pregnancy had some chromosome issues as it had a VERY large yolk sac, my HCG levels were kind of funky, etc. so even though we did see a heartbeat, I think there were chromosome problems and I would have miscarried regardless of taking the blood thinners or not. 

And yes, I had 57 eggs! I was soo sick after the retrieval I couldn't do a fresh transfer and we had to freeze all. I gained 17lbs (some free fluid in my abdomen but mostly due to super swollen ovaries). Took about a week but I am very happy to be back to normal. And now we have 10 chromosomally normal embryos on ice so I am hoping it will all be worthwhile!


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## petitpas

All the best at your appointment with Prof Q, Lexi!

RGN, I had two losses in the middle that I think were chromosomal, too, as they were off... Unfortunately, even though we have another factor there is still the bad luck element :growlmad:
10 eggs on ice is an excellent harvest, though. Sorry, is harvest a bad word for this? I don't mean it to be...
Will they be putting two back in when you go for the FET?


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## RGN

LOL - harvest is a pretty good description!

Yep, having two thawed (hopefuly both make it) and put back in the week of Dec. 12. So anxious to get the show on the road ... feel like this process has taken FOREVER!


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## petitpas

OMG, that's so soon! I suppose the good thing about it is you will know the result by Christmas. You either celebrate a bfp or distract yourself with plenty of good food and drink :thumbup:
Here's a bit of the good 'ol magic stuff :dust:


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## filipenko32

EDIT PLEASE IGNORE AND LOOK AT PAGE 35 ON THIS THREAD pip what do you think of this newly acquired piece of information we have from a consultant at an IVF clinic (we went anyway as it was booked and paid for and couldn't cancel). In a nutshell I got all the usual 'they don't really know about why if no diagnosis...steroids maybe...go for it' but alongside this he told us that there is a very rare thing called Ha1 mismatching where me and my hubby may never have a successful pregnancy because my body rejects my husband's genes. He said this was rare. He told us this when he doesn't fully understand it himself and asked us to talk about it with Prof Regan at the Rec Mis Clinic. He also said that boys are miscarried much more than girls. I am really interested to know what you think of all this...I think he's clutching at straws!


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## filipenko32

Pip I wonder if he's getting confused with 'surface markers' and CD56 cells - and steroids treat all this don't they??? He wasn't a recurrent mc specialist so...


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## hopeful23456

fili - maybe he means this, about DQ alpha testing? see below - this is a post i wrote in another forum:

have you read "is my body baby friendly?" it's Dr Beer's book (he's died of a heart attack a few years ago - maybe he had clotting issues?) but he seemed to be an awesome man dedicated to RPL. his clinic is still going strong in CA. google it. the book is a good read and covers a ton of rpl issueshere is the website to the clinic

https://www.repro-med.net/repro-med-site2/


a good site (forum) that discusses all of the tests dr beer's clinic does). I printed this list out and had my RE go through each one and she checked off the tests I had done, and she listed other tests I did that weren't on the list. There were a few tests my RE didn't do as they either "just don't do" tests like that (like the genetic similarity test) or I didn't need the test as my other related test was negative.

https://www.fertilethoughts.com/for...ers-testing-ivig-explained-fish-oil-info.html

here is a link to one of the treatments they do if your genes are too similar called LIT - see below - what diagnoses it is DQ alpha testing (my RE office doesn't do this treatment). 

https://www.repro-med.net/repro-med...unization-therapy&catid=2:pages-ett&Itemid=25


Immune Testing A. DQ Alpha This test measures whether the DNA of the couple is too closely matched. These tests give you back two numbers for both members of the couple. In a normal pregnancy the father's DNA in the baby tells the mother's body to set up a protective reaction around the developing embryo. If the father's DNA is too closely matched to the mother's, there is a good chance that the embryo created by them is unable to differentiate itself from the mother's body. The mother's body then rejects the embryo because it cannot identify the embryo as a baby. Each person gets two DQ numbers from their respective parents. Similarly, when couples try to have a baby, they also give DQ numbers to their fetus. These numbers are, for example, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2, 3 or 4. Although there are breakdowns of the 2's, 3's and 4's, many scientists find that only the 1's are significant, so they break those down to one more decimal. Presently DQ Alpha testing is identifying more and more numbers, for example, DQ 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3.


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## filipenko32

Thanks Hopeful, it's kind of similar to that - I just emailed the doctor in question and got an answer :shock: He actually said HLA Markers. In a very simplified way: If I have this certain immune system genotype and my husband has a certain other one (both of which do not mix) - it's not a question they're too similar it's more like when together they form a gun, then my body fires NK cell bullets and attacks the pregnancy causing defective implantation!! This rings so true for me as my mild period type implantation cramps always stop so soon into the pregnancy. Sounds like 'natural selection' to me and makes 'biological' sense but thankfully the wonderful prednisolone suppresses these NK cells. :happydance: I know about Beer (thankyou) but it's actually another professor called Lesley Regan who has pioneered this study. Here's a link. https://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/4/972.full.pdf+html

I think Beer was a very good launching pad for all this new info though!


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## filipenko32

hopeful23456 said:


> died of a heart attack a few years ago - maybe he had clotting issues?) .

Now that would be ironic Hopeful!! :haha: Oh dear shouldn't laugh!


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## filipenko32

Hopeful - from your links I got this which is VERY interesting and explains why early progesterone therapy might work for unexplained like us. Here's my theory. Good levels of progesterone are produced in a normal pregnancy right? So bad levels mean the pregnancy is not doing well or hasn't implanted well. I believe that progesterone can't therefore 'rescue' a failing pregnancy but if it's given early it's an extra defence against those NK cells attacking the implanting pregnancy as the body is being kind of tricked into accepting this pregnancy! What do you think? 
H. TJ6 Protein
There is another cell in the lining of the uterus that produces a protein called TJ6. This protein production is stimulated by Progesterone that helps in controlling NK cells by attaching to their DNA and breaking up the NK cell's development. This TJ6, which is a small protein, has the main task of controlling the NK cells.


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## hopeful23456

I concur fili - lol ;)

I did alot of reading about the affect of progesterone on prostaglandins too but I can't find the studies I was reading. That Dr Beer article just mentions prog stopping prostaglandin production and uterine contractions but from what I read, high levels of prostaglandins aren't good in early pregnancy.

I have a degree in biology and love reading about this stuff. Wish I would have been interested in RPL research back then and studied it now for a job but I had no clue what rpl was back then.


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## petitpas

Filipenko, I am really uninformed about the genotype discussion, but I'm not sure I agree with your implantation theory. Having cramps is not a reliable symptom at all (I didn't have any this time round for example) but your baby hung in there until it died at 9 weeks. Everything looked good until then? It was an mmc?
That doesn't sound like bad implantation to me :shrug:


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## petitpas

Ha, hopeful! With that background you must become our new subject matter expert! I hereby promote you to Dr Hope :happydance:


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## filipenko32

Also I have 'discovered' why intralipid drips of fat protein and carbs might work to supress the immune system. Cortisol is produced by the body to supress the immune system so it doesn't attack the body unecessarily. Cortisol is also produced when fat, protein, salt, carbs and sugar need metabolising. So if you're on a drip of all these nutrients more cortisol will be produced thus helping to lower the immune sytem - a boost! I am proud of myself tonight! What are your thoughts fellow steroid junkies!?


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## filipenko32

Thanks pip - no that may not be true as actually lots of ladies don't get these cramps and I have just chatted to my sister and she didn't get them either, but all the rest of the stuff fits me at least. All my miscarriages have been behind dates (mmc if they weren't being monitored)


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## petitpas

Wasn't there research showing that women with higher cortisol levels were more likely to miscarry? Hmmm this is getting complicated :rofl:


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## filipenko32

Yeah Dr Hope from now on and Dr Pip too methinks - good to have some doctors on call!!!


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## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Wasn't there research showing that women with higher cortisol levels were more likely to miscarry? Hmmm this is getting complicated :rofl:

The only thing I can think of in answer to that is that they become more suseptible to colds / infections because their immune sytems were normal to begin with. Higher stress levels mean higher cortisol levels which supress the immune system. And I don't get that at all, as wouldn't high stress levels mean you'd want your immune system to be all geared up! Aggghh! 

I get ill when i'm stressed though, makes sense that way...


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## filipenko32

Complicated but interesting!


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## petitpas

I think that when you are stressed your body prioritises to help you deal with the situation first. Hell, we need a proper doctor in here to explain all this. Filipenko, you ask difficult questions!
Just take the damn pills and have your baba :haha:


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## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Everything looked good until then? It was an mmc?
> That doesn't sound like bad implantation to me :shrug:

This is where there is also a 'crossover' in symptoms between chromosomally abnormal fetuses and normal ones, eg heartbeat stopping, gradually getting behind dates, odd features like a large yolk sac etc can be for both normal and abnormal _apparently_. My pregnancies have been all these. The effects of bad implantation, as far as I can imagine this in my head is like it is hanging on by threads and not enough of them so it just runs out of nutrient fuel. My hormone levels doubled just about normally for my last pregnancy (one no. had to be 190 exactly and it was 191) then they spiralled downwards and followed odd non-doulbing patterns which fits exceptionally well with something continuously attacking the pregnancy after 'implantation'. Not at all sure if i'm right of course but i'll be bringing all this up with the prof next week. Good to discuss with like minded girls anyway! :friends:


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## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> I think that when you are stressed your body prioritises to help you deal with the situation first. Helm, we need a proper doctor in here to explain all this. Filipenko, you ask difficult questions!
> Just take the damn pills and have your baba :haha:

:xmas13: ok! No more questions! Just trying to get to the bottom of WHY but yeah, the end result is take the damn pills so who cares why right?!!


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## hopeful23456

Fili- with my last mc the embie looked like a scrambled yolk in it, not formed right in the sac. And I though maybe that's what it looks like when an immune system attacks it. So I googled u/s pics of immune system attacked embryos and came up with nothing . Did your u/s look like that?


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## filipenko32

hopeful23456 said:


> Fili- with my last mc the embie looked like a scrambled yolk in it, not formed right in the sac. And I though maybe that's what it looks like when an immune system attacks it. So I googled u/s pics of immune system attacked embryos and came up with nothing . Did your u/s look like that?

Well the doctor doing the scan said the yolk sac didn't look normal at all and it was way too big for a yolk sac & 60% chance it would miscarry. In my mind this all fits with something in the immune system attacking it so really hopeful about the steroid treatment now, probably just need another chromo normal baby. I would think what you think too with regards to your 'scrambled yolk'.. I wish i had a biology degree now, trying to interpret all this stuff is a nightmare :dohh:


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## lexi374

Hello ladies spoke to Prof Quenby last night she was really nice and gave me time to ask ?s unlike the doc i saw at the recurrent miscarriage clinic!

She def thinks high NK cells are my problem, and its related to me having Crohn's disease and not 'bad luck!'

She said ive got 40% chance of success by doing nothing and 60% by taking steroids, tbh i hoped it would be higher but as she said not every pregnancy is viable anyway.

She said im to take prednisolone 20 mg as soon as bfp and she will also give me progesterone due to 10 day luteal phase. I asked about taking steroids now and she said they used to do that but found it can make getting pregnant harder.
She also said no to aspirin as latest studies showed it did not help and people did better off it.

She did say at the end that she thinks i have a good chance so gives me a little hope to cling to, just gotta get that BFP now!!! :thumbup:

Have a great weekend all :hugs: xxx


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## filipenko32

Hi Lexi, that's all really good, so glad you got everything sorted out. I'm not sure about the making it harder to get pregnant bit as the other girls on here didn't find it harder but all these doctors say different things anyway! Dr s puts his patients on progesterone from bfp (i know you said you've been put on it earlier due to your lp) but i think it's best to take it from after ov anyway, i did! 



lexi374 said:


> Hello ladies spoke to Prof Quenby last night she was really nice and gave me time to ask ?s unlike the doc i saw at the recurrent miscarriage clinic!
> 
> She def thinks high NK cells are my problem, and its related to me having Crohn's disease and not 'bad luck!'
> 
> She said ive got 40% chance of success by doing nothing and 60% by taking steroids, tbh i hoped it would be higher but as she said not every pregnancy is viable anyway.
> 
> She said im to take prednisolone 20 mg as soon as bfp and she will also give me progesterone due to 10 day luteal phase. I asked about taking steroids now and she said they used to do that but found it can make getting pregnant harder.
> She also said no to aspirin as latest studies showed it did not help and people did better off it.
> 
> She did say at the end that she thinks i have a good chance so gives me a little hope to cling to, just gotta get that BFP now!!! :thumbup:
> 
> Have a great weekend all :hugs: xxx


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## lexi374

Yep they all have their own ideas!

Progesterone is just from bfp too not before x


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## filipenko32

I've still got no symptoms from the steroids. Just minor leg aches at night. No hunger, no headaches, no nothing!


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## lexi374

That's good then, it's been years since i was on them, but i remember being hungry, putting on weight and getting 'moon' face! :growlmad:

Not keen to go back on them but if i get a :baby: out of it, it will all be worth while! :happydance:


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## filipenko32

Definitely worth it. A doctor was telling me yesterday that a woman wanted a surrogate because the last time she was pregnant her hair fell out and she was so vain she didn't want to do that again! She was told to go try somewhere else as that's not a medical reason! I wouldn't even care if all my hair fell out! I'm a bit concerned that I have no symptoms!


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## lexi374

Just be thankful lol! I guess everyone reacts differently to medication. My friend was on them for asthma and was proper buzzing/hyper but i dont remember feeling like that! x


----------



## filipenko32

yeah i shouldn't speak so soon and you're right everyone reacts differently. why were you on them years ago?


----------



## lexi374

For Crohn's disease, was diagnosed at 15. Im lucky i havent heard a flare up with it for about 12 years so that was the last time i was on them x


----------



## filipenko32

Oh that's good you haven't had a flare up since. When WILL you get a bfp this cycle?


----------



## petitpas

Ah Lexi, that sounds like a good appointment :thumbup:
I've read plenty of stories of women starting after ov succeeding and plenty of women starting with a bfp succeeding. Maybe it doesn't make a difference :shrug:

Filipenko, I wouldn't worry about not having symptoms with the pills. That doesn't mean they aren't working! 
Also, you were on them quite recently so maybe your body is used to them. With me the symptoms were much more noticeable the first time I took them. Second month not so much and it tapered off quite quickly.
At least you won't embarrass yourself like I did buzzing all over people :blush:


----------



## LeeC

Yep, I was pretty hyper on them the last time about to start them again in a few days. I was only on them for a short time last time as miscarried.
Anyone else get a bit manic and how long did it last for. I'm hoping it doesn't happen this time :/


----------



## LeeC

Fili. I have also been told that sometimes the pred can actually mask pregnancy symptoms too. You probs already know this.


----------



## LeeC

Pip, have you tapered off the steroids now? hope you are well x.


----------



## petitpas

Lee, the second month I took them I was hardly manic at all, maybe a couple of days? The ravenous hunger stayed longer but I think that is a combined symptom as I get that with pregnancy normally, too.


----------



## petitpas

Mr S told me that the steroids lessen ms so if I hadn't been on them I would have been much sicker. It is possible. I had a huge vomiting episode just before the end with my last pregnancy...

Lee, I am currently weaning off the steroids. I am down to 10mg/day and will be taking my last pill in four days. I haven't noticed anything different yet, which I think is good :thumbup:

How are you getting on, hun? In the tww?


----------



## LeeC

That's great news Pip.
In on CD 10 so keeping dh busy lol... Will start the pred Thurs/Fri and then sit it out in the 2ww.
I'll keep you posted. Must pop by your journal soon xxx


----------



## petitpas

Yeay, fingers crossed fxfxfxfx :dust:


----------



## lexi374

filipenko32 said:


> Oh that's good you haven't had a flare up since. When WILL you get a bfp this cycle?

Sorry our internet was down, 'think' i ovd around fri not totally sure this mth as had a couple of wacky temps, and i have a 10 day luteal phase so .... not next week but middle of week after?
Wont be gutted if it doesnt happen this mth timing wasnt as good as it couldve been and tbh could do without the worry and stress over xmas and also explaining why not drinking etc :shrug: xxx

Pip yep appointment was good just a telephone 1 but more heplful than any1 else ive seen! Glad u r doing so well xxx


----------



## filipenko32

I've just found out my immunoglobulin a levels are high, does anyone know what this means?


----------



## petitpas

No need to panic right away. My blood results were skewed due to the prednisolone. I remember two values specifically being red-lined. When I looked them up it said that my results could be due to cancer, AIDS... or being on steroids :D

Who took your blood and when will you be able to discuss this with them?


----------



## filipenko32

Haha oh well it will be the aids then! A haematologist did these and then just gave them to my gp, I wasn't on steroids at the time as it was six weeks after my miscarriage. I'll just speak to dr s about them, it might be inked to immunity maybe? Thanks pip. Will your next scan be twenty weeks?


----------



## petitpas

Ah, in that case maybe it is more proof that your immune system was working on something? Please let me know when you find out as I am curious now :D

I have scans every two weeks with an extra one I need to book with Mr S before Christmas. My consultant has promised to keep me reassured until I feel ducky move around regularly, which is very kind of her.
Then at some point I will start to have regular growth scans. I think that is because of my clotting factor more than the miscarriage history. So all in all, this will be a well documented baby!


----------



## filipenko32

You will have to show his or her girlfriend or boyfriend ALL the family photographs! It will be wonderful when you feel ducky moving around all the time anyway. I will let you know about that result.


----------



## Hope39

Pip, i have a question, not sure if you can help thou. I would aske Prof Q but it has taken me a week to get my results from her, i think she is extremely busy at the min and as i didn't have an nk cell test in the end i am probably not a priority to her and as it stands i am not a patient of hers

prof Q did some blood tests, i thought she was testing me for Lieden Factor V and lupus anticoagulant. She has sent me an email to say that my activated protein c resistance was low and that i need a blood test to see if i have Factor V L.

I know with blood clotting disorders you have to have 2 tests to confirm that you have it. Do you think i have tested positive for Factor V L and now need another blood test to confirm it?

I have tested positive for hashimoto's too, knowing my luck this autoimmune disease is causing me to have higher nk cells and i am going to end up going back to prof Q! 

How far along are you now? 

xxxxxx


----------



## leylak

Hope, you told me you had underactive thyroid. It seems now the cause is Hashimoto's. I hope you get the right treatment and achieve a healthy pregnancy.


----------



## Hope39

leylak said:


> Hope, you told me you had underactive thyroid. It seems now the cause is Hashimoto's. I hope you get the right treatment and achieve a healthy pregnancy.

Hi Leylak

Yes it is Hashimoto's that is causing my thyroid disease, i've got lots of antibodies apparently!

I don't know too much about it really, my letter from Hospital just says that my consultant will give me the correct treatment, i think i just take thyroxine still but not totally sure

I am at the recurrent miscarriage clinic next wed so will see what the consultant says

xx


----------



## filipenko32

Back from the clinic at st marys. Nothing to report really just tests. They didn't know what immunoglobulin a was though pip as they dont test for it and I only saw a specialist nurse this time. The scan was interesting. They saw fluid and both ovaries showed signs of ovulation but one looked newer than the other!


----------



## filipenko32

Dr s just emailed to say he is not happy with my thyroid results. He says they need to be between one and two. My three sets of results for tsh were: 1.6 2.6. And 3.6. At different times this year. Anyone else thinks these are high? He's putting me on thyroxin or something like that


----------



## Hope39

filipenko32 said:


> Dr s just emailed to say he is not happy with my thyroid results. He says they need to be between one and two. My three sets of results for tsh were: 1.6 2.6. And 3.6. At different times this year. Anyone else thinks these are high? He's putting me on thyroxin or something like that

Hi Fili

They are not particulary high really, the normal range is between 0.5-5 but fertility specialists like it to be between 1 and 2. Prof Quenby wants mine to be under 2.5.

Mine was 9.27 at beginning of october, 5.24 at beginning of november and i am going for another test tomorrow as Prof Q doubled my medication in november to see if it has come down a bit more

You get free prescreptions now if he is putting you on thyroxine! Thats the only good thing about having an underactive thyroid, lifetime medication from what i can gather


----------



## Hope39

Pip, its ok, don't need you to answer my question as Prof Q actually emailed me this evening, i have had a screening test (ACPR - activated c protein resistance). This has come back low so i need a blood test to see if i have it

Fingers crossed i haven't

xx


----------



## hopeful23456

Fili- I don't know a lot about thyroid levels but came across this post:
https://community.babycenter.com/po...nes_for_thyroid_levels_announced_and_question


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks hope and hopeful so would I be classed as mildly under active then? What causes that hope39? I hope that the tablets work for you x x


----------



## Hope39

Fili - what causes what? I not totally sure what you mean

My doc put me on 25mg of thyroxine when my tsh was 9.27, it seems that dropped my tsh to 5.24, i have been taken 50mg for the last month so hopefully that will take me to under 2.5

Prof Q told me not to ttc till i was at the right level but i think i will wait for the blood test result for Factor V Lieden 

xx


----------



## petitpas

Hope, I'm glad you got your answers! The only thing I can add is that the test for Factor V Leiden mutation is a genetic one. That means you either have it (heterozygous = 1 gene, homozygous = 2 genes i.e. inherited from both parents) or you don't. No need for a second test.
The condition you need two positives for to diagnose is lupus anticoagulant, also known as antiphospholipid syndrome. This is an acquired (not genetic) immune condition which also affects clotting.

From what I have read uncontrolled thyroid issues are a definite cause of infertility and miscarriage. I have seen a number of ladies on here who were successful after getting their levels under control :thumbup:


----------



## Hope39

Thanks pip, i get myself all confused with these different tests and what they all mean. I have read too much info i think, forgotten most of it too

My doctors told me i had hashimoto's today but Prof Q emailed me about my vit d test today and so i asked her and she said i haven't 'yet'! I've got thyroid antibodies that are causing my thyroid disease thou. i've got autoimmune thyroid disease

She has said my consultant next week will put me on correct medication, whatever that is

Roll on next week then

xxxxxx


----------



## petitpas

Bring it on! 

I'm also on vitamin D as a precaution. Apparently, many women who miscarry are found to be lacking in vitamin D...


----------



## hopeful23456

Fili- not sure but looks like slight hypothyroidism then? Did you see this article?
https://miscarriage-recurrentmiscarriage.blogspot.com/2009/01/hypothyroid-and-miscarriage.html

And this -
https://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hypothyroidism-and-infertility/AN01436


----------



## filipenko32

Can anyone help me with this question!! Another question, sorry!! I am wondering if any of you pregnant ladies on steroids suffered with sore boobs either just before a positive test or in the early weeks, or do the steroids mask that too? I am just symptom spotting at 9dpo and don't have sore boobs when I really want them!


----------



## leylak

filipenko, I have been on steroids for 3 months but I have the not-sore-boob problem too. Before the MC, I had very sore bbs from 5DPO to AF. I always had them before AF when I was a teenager. But now that I want them to be sore, I don't get them. Maybe a little tender but not nearly as much as they used to be. Is it related to lack of progesterone or something? I don't think it is because of the steroids because I had this problem before starting steroids. Maybe this is not a problem though, there are tons of pg ladies without sore bbs.


----------



## petitpas

I had a strong suspicion at 7dpo that I was pregnant, based on my bbs, so no the steroids made no difference to me in that respect. My bbs did shrink, though, instead of growing so something odd was going on.
You know that only a test will give you an answer...


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks girls, yeah I only suffer from sore boobs when I am actually about 5/6 weeks pregnant and not much before but last time i did get some tenderness and twinges before. But you're right leylak, we're all different. 

Pip I did a test this morning with a 10miu ic and it was just an evap line so classing it as a negative. Were your boobs very sore at 7dpo? :holly: (this is a picture of swinging boobs!)


----------



## petitpas

Lol, they felt tender on the sides is the best way I can describe it, in the same way they have felt every time I was pregnant. Steroids and progesterone have had no impact on that feeling. It's just the way my body reacts. Everyone is different :shrug:
By 8dpo I was pretty sure I was pregnant and in the evening I had my bfp (also 10miu IC). 8dpo was the earliest I got a bfp and I don't rule out that my temps might have been off by a day.


----------



## hopeful23456

fili- i actually asked pip about that too and mine didn't seem that sore in the beginning after bfp and beginning steroids but are really f'n sore now ;)


----------



## petitpas

OMG, hopeful, you're having twins!!!
That's amazing! :yipee::yipee:
:wohoo:
CONGRATULATIONS!!!


----------



## filipenko32

Aww thanks pip and hopeful, i really don't know where i'd be without you both on hand to answer ALL my questions :dohh: My that is an early bfp pip I have only had a bfp at 10dpo. Hopeful, when did you get a bfp this time? I am sitting here taking my temp every hour despite the 'normal' temp time this morning and it's constantly high at 37+ but I wonder if the prgesterone could be tricking my body into higher temps. It was about this temp last time I was pregnant but without the progesterone.


----------



## filipenko32

haha pip!! It's brilliant isn't it!?


----------



## petitpas

Filipenko, I think you should ignore daytime temperatures. There are so many factors at play.
As long as the witch doesn't come and your morning temp doesn't drop for more than a day I'm happy :D

Do you usually feel when you are pregnant? 

In any case, I'm sending you some special :dust: for a cheeky bfp tomorrow.


----------



## filipenko32

pip when you got your bfp 8 days past was it faint or a definite no mistaken it line?


----------



## hopeful23456

fili - i had trigger shot w/iui and poas every day since 4dpiui so got the 2 lines from trigger shot but those 2 lines never went away so not sure what day bfp showed up officially, it got really light at 9 dpiui/dpo and then darker again. my temps were high, 99.0 to 99.6 F (37 to 37.5 C) and I was on prog but prog never made my temps that high for that long

thanks pip! I have steroid swimmers too!


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks hopeful x x x I'm really excited for you!! :baby: :baby: Ohhhhhhhhh so exciting!!! It's such a marvellous sign that you are on track date-wise. I would be so surprised and thrown sideways even (after all my "research" lol) if anything were to go wrong now. But i know you'll probably have a few highs and lows emotionally after all you've been through but I think this is it for you now! So excited! :yipee: :yipee: :yipee: I'm not religious but I pray for you and pip everyday!


----------



## petitpas

Aw thanks, Filipenko :friends:
As I said, I might have been off by a day this month. At 8dpo I had a faint but pink line. My friend could see it :D
It was an evening pee.
Usually, I got a reliable bfp at 9dpo and also more definite with evening pee. Again, that's just me, though. Everyone is different...

How are you feeling?


----------



## filipenko32

I got my positive for sure today on the 10 miu ic's - five of them. The test line is half the shade of the control line so definitely positive. I've emailed dr s's secretary to book in for the intralipid drip but i don't see why I can't just go eat 5 Gingsters pasties instead of the drip - it would be much more fun!! Feeling nauseous and all my abdomen is tight which is a new sign. I like new signs as I think if it's different to the others it's good! My dose has upped to 40mg pred along with aspirin, progesterone, vit d, prenatals, omega and digestion tablet. Wish me luck girls, i'll keep you posted.


----------



## leylak

congrats fili! :)
good luck :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Also i doesnt seem like I will be having my hcg levels monitored which i am soooooo pleased about. No stress for 2 more weeks until a 6 week scan! Although the scan may be more like 7 weeks as it will be Christmas won't it?


----------



## petitpas

:wohoo:
Hip hip hooray! Well done on your bfp!
Not having the bloods is a good idea. You just have to sit tight until you have your scan. Will you have a local clinic monitoring you, too?


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks pip, no just sticking with dr s. Got my first intralipid treatment tomorrow for 3 hours! I'm also glad the injection site is in the arm and not the hand. So i'll be 11dpo tomorrow and on the immune suppresser already, that's catching it all early isn't it?  It's much less stressful not to have to go through those hcg tests, I wouldn't be surprised if the stress of that caused me to miscarry last time!!!!! How are you doing?


----------



## lexi374

Omg Fili congratulations!!!! :happydance::yipee::headspin::wohoo:

Thats quite a lot of things you are taking there!!

FX for ya xx


----------



## filipenko32

Lexi I know! I felt like an old biddy this morning. I put all my pills in a glass first and that includes: 8 steroid tablets, i indigestion pill, 1 prenatal, 1 omega, 1 vit D, 1 aspirin and prgesterone at night! Wowa hope this is all good glue! And a drip tomorrow! How are you?


----------



## petitpas

8 steroid pills? Can't you just take 1x25mg + 3x5mg? They aren't very tasty :nope:

Let us know how the drip goes tomorrow!


----------



## filipenko32

Well it would be good if they gave me some 25mg wouldn't it. I use a water bottle and squirt them down! They aren't very tasty are they! I thought they only came in 5mg packs, they gave me loads of 5mg packs nothing else, i just looked. Mmmmm :munch: I have good breakfasts now!


----------



## lexi374

Im good thanks Fili :hugs: Im around 6 dpo, no s&s, not holding out much hope this cycle as our timing wasnt great and i dont fall that easily.

Thats a high dose of steroids you are on, prof Quenby only prescribes 20 mg. Ill be interested in hearing about the drip too, dont know much about it x


----------



## petitpas

Yes, they come in 5s and 25s. You could ask your GP to prescribe you the steroids on the NHS (free!) and then you can be more specific about what you need.
Or just ask your pharmacy when you fill your prescription to give you what you want. As long as the total is correct it should be ok (at least that's what they said to me when I had them break down my pills from 25s to 5s last time).


----------



## RGN

Just popping in to say CONGRATS Filipenko! So happy for you. I'm sending good thoughts for a sticky bebe!


----------



## filipenko32

pip did you get anything more than a faint pink line on a 25miu ic at 11dpo?


----------



## petitpas

Fili, no I didn't! Chill! :kiss:


----------



## filipenko32

Hiya pip, Hiya girls! My intralipid day out:- The drip was painless and fine. I set off at about 6, then got there for about 8. Then I went to Starbucks for breaky, hot choc and almond croissant Then went upstairs to sit as it was draughty and this dodgy man came upstairs too and in a vast area of seats he sat on the table right next to me. I just think that's weird. He looked kind of scruffy too. So I went back downstairs and got cold. Then at the clinic they made me wait an a extra 45 minutes and then the drip lasted 2 hours ish. Had my mags and was quite relaxing really and the room was warm. Then while waiting to pay for my liquified Gingster's pasty (£300 !! ) a man in front of me was writing a cheque for 10K for his wife's IVF!!!! On the way out I then noticed the consultant's flashy Bentley's - 2 of them in one car park where it says directors' parking. Happily paid my 300 then though and scootled off in my Ford Focus!


----------



## hopeful23456

That's funny Fili! So glad to hear it went well.


----------



## petitpas

Yeah, we noticed the Bentley, too :haha:


----------



## LeeC

Haha Fili, better than me in my hubby's work van lol.

We, quick update, day 1 was a nightmare day for me. 2 hours sleep and completely hyper, yesterday wasn't as bad but still felt buzzed.
Slept straight through last night.

So, day 3 of steroids today, hoping my body is adjusting. If I remember correctly, my sides calmed down after a few days last time and it was mainly the slight mania but I'm known to have anxiety anyway, so it's to be expected.

I put a few extra llbs on before even starting then this time so really hoping I can avoid the hunger pangs they can cause. 
Although would happily put a bit of weight on to get my lil baby.

Fili. Glad it went ok with the intralipids. Are you on the pred too? When are you testing. I remember us both saying around 8dpo. That's next Friday for me. What day will you start the poss frenzy lol.

Pip. Is that you med free now? How is everything?


----------



## LeeC

Stupid phone. Of course I meant poas frenzy!!!


----------



## filipenko32

Hiya Lee, oh I already tested and i'm pregnant! I tested at 9dpo and got the faintest of faint lines on a 10miu, then slightly darker 10miu at 10dpo, then a faint pink line on a 25miu at 11dpo. I started 25mg pred, progesterone and aspirin from ovulation then upped to 40mg of pred at bfp. Had the intralipid at 11dpo so caught everything early. I'm trying not to obsessively do the 'is the line getting darker' testing thing but it's hard. I only started to notice side effects about over a week after taking 25mg with mainly the buzzing, anxiety and irritability. With the 40mg my hunger has gone through the roof!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've started getting up at 7am to take the conconction of pills and going to bed at 11 so there's a massive gap between and i've found i sleep better. What cycle day are you on now? x x x


----------



## filipenko32

What advice have you girls been given about exercise? I want to go gentle running this morning and swimming later. I forgot to ask Dr s about it, does anyone know?


----------



## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Yeah, we noticed the Bentley, too :haha:

If I get to 12 weeks / full term with Dr s i'll save up for the rest of my life to buy him another Bentley!!!


----------



## petitpas

filipenko32 said:


> petitpas said:
> 
> 
> Yeah, we noticed the Bentley, too :haha:
> 
> If I get to 12 weeks / full term with Dr s i'll save up for the rest of my life to buy him another Bentley!!!Click to expand...

Nooooo, don't promise that! Buy your child an education and a house instead (not sure how much a Bentley costs :blush:)!

Mr S advised me not to go swimming in first tri as swimming pools can be erm dirty. You can always double check with his midwife. He said I could continue with light low-impact exercise if I wanted to. I personally chose not to (my local consultant was dead against exercise with my risk level).

Lee, I'm crossing my fingers for you!!! fxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfx
As for me, I'm steroid free now! I've noticed one change, which may or may not be due to coming off the steroids. I go to bed at night with cold feet and need an extra blanket to warm up. Until this week I was boiling and sticking all my limbs out (despite the temperature dropping at night). I am still on my progesterone suppositories and all the vitamins, only the steroids have changed.


----------



## filipenko32

I won't be exercising then!! Yeah house and education sounds like a much better plan pip!! but I will worship the ground he walks on, hopefully. 

That's interesting about the temperature change.. I'm scratching my head thinking about that one. 

Lee i'll be stalking you come testing time!! Really hoping this is it for you x x x 

I'm just finishing off the Christmas hampers I make up every year. I cheat, I buy loads of Harrods food online (in bulk it works out cheaper than you could imagine) and then I make my own hampers out of them. 14 items per hamper works out at about £80 per 'couple' for close family. Good ey? Takes ages though but it's not like i've got anything better to do at the moment! 



petitpas said:


> filipenko32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> petitpas said:
> 
> 
> Yeah, we noticed the Bentley, too :haha:
> 
> If I get to 12 weeks / full term with Dr s i'll save up for the rest of my life to buy him another Bentley!!!Click to expand...
> 
> Nooooo, don't promise that! Buy your child an education and a house instead (not sure how much a Bentley costs :blush:)!
> 
> Mr S advised me not to go swimming in first tri as swimming pools can be erm dirty. You can always double check with his midwife. He said I could continue with light low-impact exercise if I wanted to. I personally chose not to (my local consultant was dead against exercise with my risk level).
> 
> Lee, I'm crossing my fingers for you!!! fxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfx
> As for me, I'm steroid free now! I've noticed one change, which may or may not be due to coming off the steroids. I go to bed at night with cold feet and need an extra blanket to warm up. Until this week I was boiling and sticking all my limbs out (despite the temperature dropping at night). I am still on my progesterone suppositories and all the vitamins, only the steroids have changed.Click to expand...


----------



## petitpas

Ooh er! Harrods! :winkwink:
It's a lovely idea - I bet your family can't wait to see what you have put together for them every year :thumbup:

DH would feed everyone lobster, foie gras, snails and caviar if he could but most of my family wouldn't like it :haha: we still are going all out on the food with salmon, potted stilton and port (not with port - the cheese has been fed with port for weeks before), cheese fondue etc.
I'm going to eat myself a fake bump :haha:


----------



## filipenko32

ohhhhhhhh all that food you mentioned is making me very hungry, i remember reading in this thread when you were hunting for a chocolate muffin with red cheeks! :haha: that's me now, the side effects have finally caught up, I can't satisfy my hunger at all. Hey pip, there'll be nothing fake about your bump!! :yipee:


----------



## petitpas

Haha, you have the munchies! :haha:

If it helps, my total weight gain from starting the pred (one month before bfp) to now has been 3kg. That's with lots of pasta eating (double portions :blush:) and several meals a day (and the middle of the night)...

I don't think that's too shocking.


----------



## filipenko32

3kg is not too bad pip.. I have gone from my normal 9.5 stone to 11 this year with all the pregnancies but I don't care. My boobs seem smaller too like you said yours were - I've been ploughing through your journal this afternoon! It's a great journal! I'm sitting here deciding whether to have a biscuit or ten and thinking really I shouldn't after all i've eaten today. And anyway am I not supposed to be suffering morning sickness?! I've got weird dull aches in my armpits of all places too, never had that before. Are you doing anything fun this weekend pip? I am going for a lovely long walk with hubby tomorrow since i'm not going to go to the gym again.


----------



## petitpas

Aw, I'm sorry I put you off the gym :blush:
I had loads of arm pit aches and pains - loads in my boobs, too. I don't know but I am just guessing they are related. :shrug:
Hey, with the steroids you might not get ms at all! How cool would that be?! :happydance:


----------



## filipenko32

oh no you didn't put me off at all, I copy everything you do anyway!! :blush: oh do the steroids stop you getting ms then? That's good as it also means i don't have to worry about not getting it if you know what i mean. My boobs are very twingy, like they're about to be painful. I wake up achey too. Going to try to chill a bit and not symptom stop too much but... I like the way you ignored your pregnancy in your journal for weeks, :rofl: that's probably the very best thing to do as all the 'what if' stressing is no good whatsoever!


----------



## petitpas

I have to admit that I copied the :ignore: tactic from Lambs. She decided she would only talk about the pregnancy on scan days. It worked quite well for me in that it didn't allow me to stress over every niggle.
I did spend a hell of a lot of time on here, though so I wasn't ignoring pregnancies in general. :haha:

As for the ms, Mr S told me that the steroids can lessen the effects. They are sometimes even used as treatment for sickness in pregnancy :shrug: he reckons that had I not been on the steroids I might well have been vomiting and not just feeling nauseous.
Until recently my bbs were also less full and less sensitive than in previous pregnancies so for me at least that was affected.

I hope you don't get ms and food aversions. What a perk from the treatment that would be :thumbup:


----------



## LeeC

Fili. I hear you. I'm only 4dpo and already having cramps and boob twinges so probs a BFN for me... Day 3 of steroids, still hyped earlier but calmed down in evening. Eating like a horse too, but don't think that's got anything to do with med I'm afraid !!!

Fili are you on pred or intralipids only?

Pip, great news. You are steroid free. When do you stop the progesterone and aspirin. x


----------



## LeeC

Pip. Love your footer too :)


----------



## petitpas

I think I have just proven my point by emptying my stomach into a bowl very loudly and ungraciously. Can I go back on the steroids, please?


----------



## petitpas

Lee, I am due to stop the progesterone at 16 weeks and aspirin at 36 weeks.

Sticky thoughts to your eggy and uterus from me :dust:


----------



## LeeC

Thanks Pip. poor you with MS. Well worth it though x.


----------



## filipenko32

LeeC said:


> Fili. I hear you. I'm only 4dpo and already having cramps and boob twinges so probs a BFN for me... Day 3 of steroids, still hyped earlier but calmed down in evening. Eating like a horse too, but don't think that's got anything to do with med I'm afraid !!!
> 
> Fili are you on pred or intralipids only?
> 
> Pip, great news. You are steroid free. When do you stop the progesterone and aspirin. x

Hi Lee, I was on 25mg prednis after ov, then at bfp it was upped to 40mg, then I had an intralipid at 11dpo. I started to feel a bit buzzy on the 25mg after over a week of taking them. Whilst taking the 40mg I have been starving starving hungry but not sure whether that's pregnancy or steroids or both. The steroids could be making you hungry already though, I think I was a late reacter. Oh and I get those hot flushes now too. When will you test this cycle? I hope you get your xmas bfp :hugs: 



petitpas said:


> I think I have just proven my point by emptying my stomach into a bowl very loudly and ungraciously. Can I go back on the steroids, please?

Oh no pip :hugs::hugs: but at least that's a good sign, just not very nice for you though - as if you haven't been through enough already!!! :growlmad: So did the ms only kick in as soon as you stopped the steroids then? 
I haven't had any af type cramping yet either which i'm pleased about as in all my other pregnancies I had quite noticeable cramping from 10dpo to about 5.5 weeks. I'm hoping this is a good sign since it's a different non-symptom. I hope you feel better today and have the chance to rest:hugs:


----------



## petitpas

I have a christening to go to today :D

I've been nauseous from about 6.5 weeks but this is the first time I've actually thrown up. For the past week I've thought it would happen and only sheer willpower has kept my food down. I only put a bowl next to bed a few days ago! Luckily! :shock:


----------



## filipenko32

Aww that's wonderful pip, I hope you really enjoy it and manage to eat something too without up-chucking!! x x


----------



## petitpas

OMG, please no up-chucking in public!
I had better take a bag in my handbag just in case. It wouldn't do to soil a church, would it?


----------



## filipenko32

No and the hosting couple might think it was the sight of their baby or something!! :haha: A bag rustles.. erm a plastic bowl you can throw away and a large hide behind handbag?? I just posted on your journal but travel sickness bands, ginger tea and mints are supposed to be helpful I think.


----------



## LeeC

Oh dear Pip. Throwing up in your handbag and avoiding alcohol. Everyone will think you have hangover lol.
Enjoy the christenng.

Thanks Fili, I stay on 25mg at BFP, hoping it will all calm down. I react fairly quickly to most meds tbh. I'm testing next Friday (I think) which is really early only 8dpo.
Earliest Ive ever had a line was 10dpo.

Hope you're doing ok x


----------



## LeeC

Sorry about the typos. On my phone again x


----------



## LeeC

Oh and just remembered something Ive been wanting to ask everyone taking pred. 
Was your medication coated (gastro resistant or whatever it says) or not.
I was given coated initially and now they are not and they taste like crap.
Wondering of it makes a difference.
I've been taking the coated aspirin too rather than desirable.
what has everyone else been taking and does anyone think it makes a difference.

Thanks.


----------



## filipenko32

Im not sure Lee, I just checked, still not sure. They taste bitter and horrid so don't think they're coated with anything. The asprin I just swallow whole too as I can't be bothered waiting for the tiny thing to dissolve. I take a special digestion pill with the steroids and so don't get tummy ache or anything.


----------



## petitpas

My steroids weren't coated. Def get coated again if you can!

My aspirin supply is from the States (bought in a pack of 300) and they are coated.

I am the loudest sicker upper in the world so I couldn't be discreet if I tried. Plus I'm going to be at the front since DH is a proxy godfather (no, that is not a typo, he's standing in for the godfather who can't make it). :haha:

Lee, I love your hangover theory :D


----------



## LeeC

Your pred sounds like the uncoated Fili. Last night I went to take my aspirin as Id forgotten. Stupidly I stick a steroid in my mouth I was nearly sick with the taste never spit anything out as quick in my life.
I know they taste bad enough without having it in there while getting a glass of water lol...
I have taken the coated this morning but may phone gp or Anabella at MrS clinic to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks x


----------



## LeeC

Lol Pip. It's a good excuse not be drinking unless of course you have made your announcement. Yay!!!
Must be great going to a christening knowing you are baking your own lil baby.
How fab.

And thanks, yeah would def rather have the coated as the uncoated do leave an awful taste in your mouth.

Thanks, you girls are great x


----------



## LeeC

Fili. Just noticed your new Avatar. It's made me feel all christmassy :)


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## petitpas

We plan on telling people when we see them so no official announcement has gone out. This couple know about everything already.


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## filipenko32

It is christmassy isn't it! I think I will get the coated ones for when I need to cook number 2 PMA PMA! As it is I probably have enough pred in stock now to last me another 30 pregnancies!! Think dr s's hand slipped when he wrote the prescript - I seem to have a lot. Then again they are all in 5's lol so I have 8 lovely tablets to :munch: everyday. Mind you I'm so hungry all the time I probably quite enjoy them! x

I'll be hoping you don't upchuck Pip or if you do maybe the baby's cry will cover you! Good luck! x


----------



## lexi374

Hey fili, the side effects finally caught up with you then?! How are you feeling, apart from hungry?

I have at last got all my results from oxford!! Got a ? for you, when i had an ultra sound done it was day 9 in my cycle and my lining was 3mm. This seems really thin do you know how much it grows per day and if it would have been an acceptable thickness by ovulation? x


----------



## filipenko32

Hi Lexi! You know i don't actually know the answer to that. But i'm going to go some research for you. Just 'suffering' hunger at the moment and sore armpits?? :saywhat: What other results did you get back? x


----------



## lexi374

Thanks, i had a quick look but couldnt really see any answers.

I had day 2 bloods fsh, lh etc, all the clotting, full blood count and karyotyping, they just said everything was normal x


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## filipenko32

lexi, that's great that all your results came back perfect. I found this link for you. https://www.fertilityties.com/post/show/dr-my-re-said-my-thin-lining-is-fine-do-you-agreeqmqmqm

I'm still looking for you and not sure. What did the person say who was doing the scan?


----------



## LeeC

Fili. That's interesting I have twinges in my bbs and mainly at sides under armpits. Did this only start when you started steroids.
I'm being a horrific symptom spotter this month :/


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## lexi374

filipenko32 said:


> lexi, that's great that all your results came back perfect. I found this link for you. https://www.fertilityties.com/post/show/dr-my-re-said-my-thin-lining-is-fine-do-you-agreeqmqmqm
> 
> I'm still looking for you and not sure. What did the person say who was doing the scan?

Thanks for the link, from what i can see ideally it should be at least 8mm at ov, i didnt ov til day 18 that cycle so i guess it couldve ben ok by then. I read that 3mm is usually seen at the end of period, so i was thinking that would be more like day 5?
She just said everything looked normal no abnormalities, she wrote on the report the endometrium appears regular and thin measuring 3mm, lmp day 9. x


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## filipenko32

Maybe it's ok then and she would have pointed it out to you in a more worried fashion if it wasn't. Could you maybe ring the hospital tomorrow and check? It might be worth checking to stop you worrying. I suppose at 9dpo it shouldn't really be 'thin' as it's getting ready to shed then so I would maybe check lex but on the whole I think they would have def made more of it if it really was a problem. x x


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## lexi374

sorry not 9dpo, CD 9! x


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## filipenko32

Ohhh sorry!! These steroids fry my brain! Oh I would think that 3mm is ok as you've not even got the old corpus luteum going yet and it's mainly the progesterone and some estrogen working together to build up that lining. Don't worry! I wouldn't :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

LeeC said:


> Fili. That's interesting I have twinges in my bbs and mainly at sides under armpits. Did this only start when you started steroids.
> I'm being a horrific symptom spotter this month :/

I've never had armpit pain until I started the steroids, i got my first armpit pain at 11dpo. My bbs aren't sore really just twingy and well...twingy is the best way I can describe it!! My main thing is the hunger and hot flashes. But the hunger! :munch: :munch: :munch: :munch: :munch: No sickness at all since i started the 40mg but had sickness and dry gagging at 8 and 9dpo. Symptom spotting in the 2ww keeps me sane!! x


----------



## LeeC

Yep I have the twinges and today I had my first hot flush. It's nice to see I'm coming through the ranks lol.


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## filipenko32

Yep lee sounds like you're firmly in the steroid brigade! how's your hunger?


----------



## GillAwaiting

Oh folks, I've been stalking this thread for months. Currently preg (maybe) and expecting m/c after scan on Tuesday. Can't wait to get off the steroids. Been on them months and I have a face like a football. Also in the last 2 weeks Im turning into a warewolf. Fuzz appearing all over my face :( Put on loads of weight due to eating plenty. Trying not to eat too much salt as it makes me pee all flipping night. It's all a nightmare.

Cons added pregnyl to the mix of clexane, aspirin, steroids, 5mg folic acid, vit b, cyclogest, estrogen pills and intralipids. BB's stopped being sore yesterday. I have no idea if its the drugs or another m/c on the way.

If anyone here has any experience of mixing steroids with all or any of these drugs, I'd love to hear it. Im at my wits end.


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## LeeC

I've started being slightly more hungry, I'm really gonna have to watch my weight I can see it.
I'll be off the steroids next weekend if I get a BFN. Will wean off over a few days.

Oh Gill that sounds awful, I hope everything is ok after your scan. How longg have you been on the steroids for.

I currently take prednisone 25mg, pregnacare, folic acid, flax oil, vit D3 and aspirin.
I will start progesterone and possibly heparin if I get BFP next weekend.

Please keep us posted and I will be thinking of you Tuesday.

And agreed steroids are a bloody nightmare :(


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## filipenko32

Hi girls, 

I thought you might like to see my tests at 13dpo using 25miu strips. Sorry the quality isn't great. I used my hubby's phone and it's supposed to be good but I couldn't take a good pic. :shrug:I was worried I wouldn't get pregnant quickly on a steroid cycle but this was my first steroid cycle. So for anyone who is ever worried about that you needn't be. What do you think?
 



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## petitpas

Gill, I am so sorry things aren't going well for you. If this is confirmed as an m/c would you consider getting the fetus genetically tested?
I'm on heparin, aspirin, cyclogest, vit d, prenatals and omega 3. Until recently I was also on pred and 5mg folic acid.

Lexi, I'm not sure about your lining but I can imagine that if you still had another 9 days until ovulation a lot could change.
Last year I had a scan a few days before ovulation and my doc informed ne that my lining was too thin to fall pregnant. Well, about ten days later I had a positive test and carried that little one until 9 weeks when it died suddenly and I had another D&C.

Lee, side boobs? Am I allowed to get excited?

Fili, the photos are blurry but I can still clearly see the second lines :thumbup::yipee::happydance:


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## filipenko32

Hi Gill :hugs: why do you think you are miscarrying? 

Pip, did you manage ok today!? How was everything? 

Lee, I am calorie counting tomorrow, I can't see how putting on LOADS of weight can be good for pregnancy. Going to drink litres of water and consume no more than 2000 calories a day with a brisk 2 hour walk everyday. How did you manage the hunger pip?


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## LeeC

I ate a super huge Sunday lunch, now pigging out on crisps and choccie, so I am calorie counting with you Fili.
Those lines look great. I would be more than happy with lines like that. Thanks for posting the pics.

Pip, don't get too excited. I have to admit I have twinges in my boobs and cramps, but I've been down this road before only to be met with a BFN. The dangers of symptom spotting I have practically convinced myselg I am pg already and that is also dangerous, as I know I'll not handle a neg test too well, but on a positive it will be nearly Xmas and at last I am back on the TTC wagon.
Thanks for your enthusiasm though x.


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## petitpas

Yeah, Fili, I was really careful with my eating... NOT :haha:

I got up in the middle of the night to eat whatever I could find in the fridge or corn flakes (with sugar). Then I would eat a couple of toasts for breakfast (with the pred). By 11 I had an avocado sandwich or similar, then by 1.30-2pm I was starving and ate a double portion of pasta. I would then make it to 5 or 6pm when I would need dinner, followed by a second dinner around 8pm. Sometimes I'd have a toast before bed again.
OMG, how did I only put on three kgs?
I didn't have any sweets, chocolate or deserts apart from a couple of hot chocolates a day to keep the heartburn at bay.


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## LeeC

Haha do you think we sound like proper junkies: On a steroid thread and talking about lines. Oh dear, must make mental note to delete internet history!!!


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## petitpas

Ok, Lee, I am zipping up my enthusiasm. Ultimately, I think that by now you know your body in pregnancy well enough that you can judge whether the symptoms you are experiencing are standard for the tww or more promising.
I'm still sending you :dust: Xxx


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## LeeC

Oh my Pip, did you have time to do anything but eat lol.... that's alot of food. I'm dreading the hunger pangs kicking in and sort of hope that side effect skips me as I'm having an extra crappy time with mania and sleeping.


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## LeeC

Aww thanks Pip, I know my body pretty weel be now, it's my bloody mind that plays tricks on me lol... I'm staying positive though.
I'll need to pop by your journal and see some scan pics xxx


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## filipenko32

LeeC said:


> Fili. That's interesting I have twinges in my bbs and mainly at sides under armpits. Did this only start when you started steroids.
> I'm being a horrific symptom spotter this month :/




petitpas said:


> Yeah, Fili, I was really careful with my eating... NOT :haha:
> 
> I got up in the middle of the night to eat whatever I could find in the fridge or corn flakes (with sugar). Then I would eat a couple of toasts for breakfast (with the pred). By 11 I had an avocado sandwich or similar, then by 1.30-2pm I was starving and ate a double portion of pasta. I would then make it to 5 or 6pm when I would need dinner, followed by a second dinner around 8pm. Sometimes I'd have a toast before bed again.
> OMG, how did I only put on three kgs?
> I didn't have any sweets, chocolate or deserts apart from a couple of hot chocolates a day to keep the heartburn at bay.

Jeeez pip, me and my hubby were laughing our heads off at this! You definitely did well to only put on 3kg. I am matching this though now. Drinking lots of water seems to help a bit. How was your nausea today? You'll probably lose weight now lol!


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## LeeC

Oh I sounded like a Yorkshire lass there, although I'm a Cumbrian, so sort of close.
I meant pretty well of course lol.


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## LeeC

Fili. I'll be bulk buying Evian then. May even invest in a Soda Stream in the hope that the fizziness fills me up.


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## filipenko32

lee i'm going massive food shopping tomorrow and i'm going to plan out all my meals so i eat really filling but not too calorific meals with a balance of all the food groups to 2000 cals. Also, I now take my tablets at 7am and go to bed at 11pm and this seems to work. I'm not suffering from insomnia anymore because of this big gap in the day. x x x


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## petitpas

Food groups, balanced eating... :rofl:
I lived off Philadelphia: Philadelphia on toast with cucumber, Philadelphia on toast with avocado, Philadelphia with pasta, Philadelphia with potatoes... every single day. Yawn!

Lee, I have a sneaky feeling my metabolism sped up with the pred so maybe that counteracted the extra calories?

I will be very admiring (and a little jealous) of you both if you keep to the calorie counting. 2,000 is well in the healthy range for a pregnant woman :thumbup:


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## LeeC

Pip, we will do you proud. xxx


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## petitpas

Lee, I can't wait :hugs:

By the way, scan pics are in the first post of my journal so you don't have to search Xxx


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## filipenko32

:rofl: oooooooooh now you mention philidelphia mmmmmm, :munch: My hubby thinks I could fill up with salad, SALAD! :rofl: :rofl: that's not even gonna touch the sides!!


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## petitpas

Salad?! Is he mad? :rofl:
My husband may have briefly suggested such madness, too, but has since given up. I currently have an intense dislike of lettuce and tomato skins.


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## filipenko32

ha ha i'll give him salad... on his plate for dinner tomorrow with nothing else and see how he likes it! With you on the tomato skins and salad disgust.


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## LeeC

Yep. I'm a veggie and even I draw the line at salad!!!


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## filipenko32

pip can I ask...another question!!? When did you get a solid line on a 25miu ic? Today at 14dpo my line is probably half the shade of the control. 

.....calorie counting starts today, i'll be counting them but might not stop counting for a while!


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## petitpas

Fili, I don't think I used any 25miu this time round.
In any case, I don't usually get the dark solids until late. Now stop overanalysing your tests! You said you didn't want bloods so you wouldn't stress so don't stress over unscientific hpt lines! The lines haven't faded back to nothingness, you aren't bleeding, all is well right now!
:hugs:


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## filipenko32

Ha ha yes you're right pip, i will stop obsessing and start counting instead!! x x Just got my TEG result back from st mary's and it was negative and i was on 75mg aspirin a day when it was taken so.. It makes me happier that i'm not taking the heparin for this pregnancy as I was obviously taking it for no reason last time and it didn't work anyway!


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## petitpas

Ah, lucky you!
What did Mr S say about heparin for you?


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## filipenko32

He said no way as my test results all said "No" (my test results speak to me now :wacko:)


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## petitpas

That's great news!
Urgh, you've just reminded me that it is time for my morning injection...


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## LeeC

No Heparin for me either. 

Eating less today but steroids knocking the crap out of me :/

hello all xxx


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## filipenko32

Hi! Today I tried one of Pip's Philidelphia on toast with avocado!! Wow they are good!! I also ate cereal, a pastrami sandwich, 2 bananas, loads of juicy big olives, a mince pie, a scone with butter and cherry jam. Litres and litres of water. Is extreme thirst a side effect too? How many cals? :shrug: don't know, don't care. Me hungry! :munch: :munch: :munch: :munch: 

Lee did you try taking your tablets earlier this morning? I'm on 40mg now and the big between sleep time makes a huge difference, i have no problems sleeping and not really buzzing anymore but not sure if that's progesterone tiredness kicking in.


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## LeeC

Hi Fili.

I took them at 8.00 am this morning. I'm gonna try take them around 7 ish in future. I suffer from anxiety also, so probs doesn't help. I'll see how I go this week and speak to my specialist if it doesn't wear off. Mainly feeling jittery and agitated today, slightly manic tbh!!!
I'm hoping it settles down. Not been hungry today but I work up in a lather of sweat last night and still quite restless.
I'm on 25mg.

How long have you been on them for, did you have anything similar, if so, how long did it last for?

Thanks x


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## LeeC

Also I didn't have any problems sleeping on them last time really, infact I think I was sleeping well. Was only on 20mg though, was hyped for a few days but that was about it.

mmmmm Olives, scones and mince pies, yummy x


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## beachlover1

just popping back to say hi!! Congrats Filli!!!! everything crossed for you!

Im on CD6 :-( she came, 4 days early...i spotted and felt sooooooo sick i was sure i was in there...but then she arrived in full force! oh well onwards and upwards.

I have my letter for my GP for my prescription of steroids and progesterone in the hope of that BFP. Im off to New Zealand for 6 weeks for a holiday so heres hoping a bit of sun and some relaxing brings that XMAS BFP!!

ill be checking in soon xxx


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## hopeful23456

by philadelphia do you mean cream cheese? i have been eating alot of it on bagels with peanut butter ;) you make me so hungry! gotta try it on toast with cucumber or avocado


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## petitpas

Fili, Hope, drizzle a bit of lemon drops on top of the avocado and add freshly ground black pepper :cloud9:

Yes, Philadelphia is a brand of cream cheese.

Sorry about the witchy visit, beachlover :hugs: 6 weeks in New Zealand sounds like a fabulous break!


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## filipenko32

ooh thanks pip, will do that tomorrow! lee i didn't get any side effects until after a week of taking 25mg then i was buzzy and anxious too. Not been buzzy or anxious on 40mg though!!!! I just feel normal aside from the hunger x


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## filipenko32

bagels with cream cheese AND peanut butter Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## hopeful23456

i'm eating philly all the time ;)


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## petitpas

I eat it every day, too! Still do!

One other thing I've noticed is that my portion sizes have decreased since coming off the roids. :D


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## filipenko32

I will be now after today's taster, not had phili since i was 15 I don't think!! I keep wanting chocolate and nuts melted together too Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Chocolate and salted nuts. Mixed together. Mmmmmmmm. Oh dear we are serious steroid junkies!


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## filipenko32

oh that's good pip, i hope your sickness is easing too :hugs:


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## petitpas

Haha, chocolate :sick: that's the one thing I cannot eat.
I've tried a few times and each time I regret it.
You keep the brown stuff, I'll stay with the white cheesy goodness :cloud9:
Have you tried Philadelphia with parmesan on pasta? Hmmmmmmmm


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## filipenko32

Sounds good pip I will try that too!! What about a bagel with cream cheese, peanut butter, and nuttella on top! That sounds good to me. I will try it tomorrow and let you all know! 

........ oh yeah, cal counting.....


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## petitpas

:sick::sick::sick:


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## hopeful23456

how about chex party mix? do you make that over there? it's so good....I really want some but I'm too tired to make it


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## filipenko32

what's that hopeful?


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## filipenko32

sorry pip, probably not helping your sickness at all that!


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## petitpas

It's ok, Fili, I can ignore it :)

Hope, what on earth is that mix?


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## LeeC

Haha, this thread is hilarious at the minute. It's like an episode of Come Dine With Me. I had baked Camembert on Sunday, a whole one!!!
Been good all day but just eaten a king size twix :/
I'd rather have the hunger than the agitation and mania, I'm gonna speak to my psych if it's no better by end of week. He did say he would keep an eye on me and look into safe meds to counteract any manic episodes if they get too bad. 
I can't cope with this level of craziness.
Please let it be a BFP this month to make it almost bearable.

Off to lay in bed and count sheep x


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## petitpas

Oh Lee, the craziness is not nice :nope:
I hope you feel calmer and happier soon :hugs:


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## hopeful23456

Its party mix made with chex mix cereal

https://www.chex.com/Recipes/RecipeView.aspx?RecipeId=6709

People here always make it christmas


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## LeeC

I'm gonna try that Hopeful. Thanks.
And Pip yeah, fx'd it settles down. It's the worst feeling ever. x

how's the ms? x


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## leylak

Hello ladies, I have a question for those diagnosed with active NK cells.
Do you get sick easily? 
I am not diagnosed but I barely get sick (cold or flu). I was happy with it until recently then I started thinking maybe having a too strong immune system is not good for TTC. Even on streoids, I got some cold virus but I felt bad only for two days then I recovered. Normally, I don't recover for 10 days at least. Sounds paranoid but I wanted to share.


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## filipenko32

Hi leylak, no the last time i was sick was when i went to st lucia last year and caught something off the plane! not been sick all year!


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## filipenko32

lee that can't be nice, thinking of you x x x :hugs: :friends: :hugs:


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## petitpas

Leylak, I used to get everything going but the past couple of years, nothing!
I have had a cold that I am just getting over. It took two weeks. I didn't feel too bad, though. Just a funny nose and a cough. No fever or flu-ey nastiness.

Hope, that looks interesting. I think our shredded wheat is similar to your cereal although we may not have all the flavours such as rice...

Lee, the ms is still here but getting better. Also, (touch wood) I haven't had any heartburn for the past couple of days. Despite the lemon drizzle on my sandwich yesterday and despite eating a curry for dinner! :yipee:


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## hopeful23456

do they have chex cereal in the UK?


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## filipenko32

No Chex mix in the uk I just checked Tesco's online and googled to buy it online and have to get it imported if I want some!! Is there a UK equivalent? 

Can't. stop. eating. peanut butter. with nuttella choc spread. on toast Mmmmmmmmm :munch: :munch: :munch:

Ohhhh curry, pip. What kind of curry did you have?


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## lexi374

Leylak i work in a nursery and im never off sick, the only time ive had off has been for mc, and i am exposed to a lot of germs!! x


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## petitpas

Hope, no we don't have it.
Fili, it looks a bit like shredded wheat, don't you think? You know, the ones the grannies knit for us :winkwink:


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## filipenko32

oh lexi, that's not the best place for miscarriage sufferers like us to work :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: how do you cope?


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## filipenko32

yeah grannie knitted shredded wheat would do the trick I think!


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## lexi374

filipenko32 said:


> oh lexi, that's not the best place for miscarriage sufferers like us to work :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: how do you cope?

umm yeah it is the worst!

I duno really just have to get on with it i suppose, only a small amount of people know at work. I think going back after the first 1 was the hardest, had only been back in about half an hour when some1 i work with announced she was pregnant no idea how far, hadnt been trying etc blah blah blah, then over the course of the next few weeks several parents said they were pregnant too, they were all due within a mth of my due date and they all had their babies except me :cry:

There is always someone pregnant at our place....


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## petitpas

Aw, Lexi :hugs:


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## filipenko32

As pip said lex, really feel for you :hugs:


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## hopeful23456

So why can't they make grape, orange or strawberry flavored steroids? The aftertaste is SO disgusting, lol

Lex- I feel for you too! Many of the girls that work at my re office have had IF or rpl, the girl that draws my blood had 4 mc around 20 wks as she has an incomplete cervix that didn't even hold after stitching. My clinic is also a regular ob/gyn clinic (1/2 of it specializes in rpl) and I asked that girl his she can still work there as I cried at almost every appt. she said she almost quit before but stayed on. Shes going to a specialist again too to try and find a way to keep the pregnancies going. 
I would cry every day working at a nursery.


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## filipenko32

I got some 25mg packs from the pharmacy today as I couldn't face any more 8 pills at a time! I had to beg my gp for them this morning as he had no idea why I was taking steroids in pregnancy! They are bitter aren't they?


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## petitpas

I read somewhere that you should drink something before you put the pills in your mouth. If your mouth is dry they will stick more :sick:

I'm so glad I am rid of them. If only I could stop the omega 3 capsules, too. They reek!


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## leylak

leylak said:


> Hello ladies, I have a question for those diagnosed with active NK cells.
> Do you get sick easily?
> I am not diagnosed but I barely get sick (cold or flu). I was happy with it until recently then I started thinking maybe having a too strong immune system is not good for TTC. Even on streoids, I got some cold virus but I felt bad only for two days then I recovered. Normally, I don't recover for 10 days at least. Sounds paranoid but I wanted to share.




filipenko32 said:


> Hi leylak, no the last time i was sick was when i went to st lucia last year and caught something off the plane! not been sick all year!




petitpas said:


> Leylak, I used to get everything going but the past couple of years, nothing!
> I have had a cold that I am just getting over. It took two weeks. I didn't feel too bad, though. Just a funny nose and a cough. No fever or flu-ey nastiness.




lexi374 said:


> Leylak i work in a nursery and im never off sick, the only time ive had off has been for mc, and i am exposed to a lot of germs!! x

Thank you very much for your responses. It makes sense. NK cells are also known to fight cancer cells so I hope we have one advantage :shrug:


----------



## filipenko32

You're welcome! Yay for no cancer! My hunger is spiralling out of control!!!!


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## petitpas

Ah, but we are killing that beneficial function right now :rofl:


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## filipenko32

Did any of you ladies feel dizzy and out of it in early pregnancy I hate this feeling I just feel out of it! More so than usual lol!


----------



## petitpas

I still get what I can only describe as foggy days :shrug:


----------



## filipenko32

Yeah Foggy is a good all round description. Did your heart ever race for a while on and off? Seem to be having palpitations too and not just when I watch enrique inglasias videos either!


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## petitpas

Yep, my heart rate became faster to the point that I was worried and freaked out when my heart rate came down at 8.5 weeks! :haha:


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## filipenko32

Oh god we can't win can we?


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## hopeful23456

i feel the same way fili and read it's all normal. just took my roid - you know they call it "juicing" when you are on steriods? lol (bodybuilders w/the nasty steroids).


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## filipenko32

Thanks hopeful. I promised myself I wouldnt analyse symptoms or test and oh dear.. Its impossible not to isn't it? My hubby has gone out with his football friends and it's fancy dress so hes dressed as the terminator and I did the face paint for him, he looked really good! Me I am watching soppy Xmas films and b and b ing! And eating!!! X


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## petitpas

Fili, I bet he looked great as the terminator!

I'm not sure, should I tell you about the hirsute side effects of 'juicing'? Maybe I'll just let you figure it out yourselves :haha:


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## LeeC

Hello. I seem to be getting much better with steroids. Although I'm still slightly hyped I def think it's calmed down.
Tested at 8dpo, which is ridiculously early BFN.
I guess I'll know soon if I'm staying on them or not!!!
Fx'd it's all been worthwhile this cycle.

How is everyone? x


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## petitpas

Hi Lee, sorry to read about the bfn although it is still very early :hugs:
I am so so glad you are getting better with the roids. I have to admit, I was a bit worried you might have to stop due to the side effects. Phew! If you do have to stop now and start again in a couple of weeks I think you will find yourself getting used to the pills much faster.
I hope you won't need that, obviously :dust:


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## LeeC

Me too Pip. I honestly thought I could not carry on taking them, it was pretty full on, I'm still not sleeping as well but getting 5 or 6 hours and getting better.
Yep, I'm still holding out for that BFP.
How is your pregnancy going, if I'm right you will be promoted to 2nd tri about now xxx


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## filipenko32

petitpas said:


> Fili, I bet he looked great as the terminator!
> 
> I'm not sure, should I tell you about the hirsute side effects of 'juicing'? Maybe I'll just let you figure it out yourselves :haha:




LeeC said:


> Me too Pip. I honestly thought I could not carry on taking them, it was pretty full on, I'm still not sleeping as well but getting 5 or 6 hours and getting better.
> Yep, I'm still holding out for that BFP.
> How is your pregnancy going, if I'm right you will be promoted to 2nd tri about now xxx

I don't know why I'm multi quoting when it's obvious I'm talking to you both! Is that the werewolf effect pip? Had the salmon, cream cheese, pepper, lemon bagel combo just now. Omg it was to die for!!! Thanks :flower:

Lee so sorry you're going through yet more suffering and the steroids are not settling. Six hours sleep isn't bad but I'm sure 8 is more like it! Keeping my fingers crossed for you x


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## petitpas

Little steps, Lee, little steps :hugs:
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your poas session today fxfxfxfx :dust:

Yes, I'm 15+2 today so well and truly in second tri. To be honest, I actually feel quite normal and less pregnant than I did in first tri. It's well weird.

Fili, I've definitely noticed more or longer hair. Thankfully, the facial hair is fair!
My belly is hairy, my thighs are hairy, the hair on my arms is longer and more pronounced...

What a shame we don't have an animal emoticom on here - a tazmanian devil would have been so appropriate :lol:


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## filipenko32

Haha pip, ohhh the joys of pregnancy! That's not in What to Expect when you're Expecting is it!? I was severely sick after eating a papaya yesterday. Never again! How's your sickness?


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## petitpas

Yup, I just read about that :hugs:

I'm ok. I was gagging last night but kept everything down. :smug: My sister and dad arrived in the throes of a vomiting illness :(

Why are you up already?


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## filipenko32

I always wake up at 6am especially when I'm pregnant. Loo trip at this time and then I can't get back to sleep! I usually potter about the house doing housework and the like but straight on b and b this morning. Sometimes I fall back to sleep at 8 for an hour after taking the steroids!! Oh dear. Sounds like your sister and dad are coming out in sympathy with you! Sometimes I think the constant gagging is worse than just being sick and getting it over with. What about you, are you usually awake now? I am still not having nightmares or any cramping and i got my 3+ on a clear blue digi yesterday before I am even 5 weeks which I was ecstatically happy about as I only ever get that mid 5 weeks + more like nearly 6 with my other failures. I know I'm silly testing all the time when I don't want hcg levels done!


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## petitpas

I don't think anyone can accuse an rpl-er of silliness. Madness, maybe :winkwink:, but not silliness...

My mum came down with the sickness last night, too :nope:
This will be an interesting test of my immune system. Do I get it or not?


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## filipenko32

Oh no! I hope you don't get it, you have had your fair share of sickness recently! X


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## filipenko32

What do you think girls? I know I am a crazy obsessed poas testing madwoman but do you think this is ok, shade, depth, colour, thickness- wise for 5 weeks? I took the picture at pretty much 10 minutes of developing. It's a 25 miu
 



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## petitpas

Oh, I don't know, fili... :nope:

Just kidding! (please forgive me)
Looks fine to me. Now STOP TESTING! You are going to drive yourself unnecessarily bonkers if you continue :hugs:


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## filipenko32

:haha: Did have this face :shock: before I read the second line!


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## hopeful23456

those are dark lines - lol


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## filipenko32

This one is much darker!!:cloud9: I need help :wacko::wacko::wacko:

Oh dear I need to 

a/ get out more..:blush:
b/ do something more useful with my time:dohh:

I chose pink backing paper to make it look nice (see b/)
 



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## hopeful23456

lol - i hope those tests aren't too pricey ;) you are fine


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## filipenko32

No they work out at about 7 pence each so what say 50 cents! I love them but I am addicted lol good job this addiction is not a financial burden too! How are you doing?


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## lexi374

Fab lines fili chill out! :thumbup:


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## petitpas

I have to say the pink backing paper makes for a great background :thumbup:


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## leylak

Hello ladies! I hope you are all doing well!
You know I was questioning why I was not getting sick at all. Then I did some research on my dex. dose and found that it was equivalent to 3.33 mg of prednisolone - much less than you ladies take. I decided to up my dosage on my own by %50 (souldn't be tried at home :blush:) my dr had considered upping my dose but then changed his mind because of its side effects. Also, the dose was still low, I thought. a few days later, I got such a bad cold. fever reached 38.5 and I couldn't get up off the bed for a few days. I don't know if this was related with the steroid dose but I am kind of relieved that I "could" get sick. :)


----------



## petitpas

Oh leylak :hugs:
To be honest, I didn't get sick until I stopped the steroids. I've had two colds and the Norovirus in the past four weeks :haha:

How much of the dex are you on? I thought it was five times as strong as pred (or something like that)?


----------



## petitpas

Just did a conversion on here:
www.globalrph.com/steroid.cgi

25mg prednisolone (which is the dose I was on) is equivalent to 3.75mg dexamethasone.
How much did your doc put you on?


----------



## leylak

I had used that conversion page :) Doc put me on 0.5 mg dex


----------



## Amber3

I have a short question. I have been talking to my doctor about trying out steroids. However, I am confused because I read that implantation problems can be due to low immune function as well as high. And I am thinking that my immune function may be low, I work in a kindergarden and often have longer lasting colds, I also have endometriosis which is said to be connected with low NK cells. Do any of you have any thoughts on this? :confused:
At the same time it is my impression that steroids are also sometimes used for people with endometriosis, do you know any succes stories (any of you?) 
Best wishes for the new year
Amber


----------



## filipenko32

Hi Amber, I really don't know about steroids for the use you describe. Have you had miscarriages or are you trying to conceive? I hope someone can help you on here x


----------



## petitpas

In Dr Beer's book they claim that endometriosis is common with high nk cells. I have endometriosis (mild). Also, I personally don't think you can count your colds and make a conclusion as to how your immune system is working (after all, you really work in the worst place for germ transmission). You're probably better off getting tested if you can? 
How many losses have you had?


----------



## petitpas

Sorry, Amber, I just looked at your recent posting history and see that your problem is in fact getting pregnant.
Have you read Dr Beer's book - is your body baby friendly?
They claim that nkcells can make your womb hostile to conception, which is why many IVF clinics treat with steroids, especially women who have been unsuccessful with IVF a number of times.


----------



## Amber3

Thank you petitpas.
I have had one ectopic and at least 2 chemicals. You are right, I do work in the worst place.
Thank you for your advise. I haven't read the book but my fertility specialist has read it and has promised to get back to me about what he thinks. I just hope I will get some answers soon and that this will finally bring me to the goal.
This thread is very interesting.
Amber


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## Amber3

PS congratulation on you sticky bean. How amazing !


----------



## petitpas

You should have a read. It is nicely written (if a bit boastful at times :winkwink:) and is easily available from Amazon.


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## lisacn

hi there, 

i'm 38 had 2 mcs and on prednisolone since Dec 2011, they make me so ill though


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## filipenko32

Hi Lisa, were you diagnosed with high nk cells?


----------



## lisacn

yes I was .96 and they like you to be .8 or under, blood clotting was fine so no heparin just baby aspirin and progesterone when prgnant. I just felt so bad on the steroids, all wired and unable to relax or sleep


----------



## filipenko32

Lisa did dr s diagnose you or prof quenby?


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## lisacn

it was Dr S, well one of his side kicks


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## filipenko32

What dose are you on? I was on 25mg from ov then 40mg from bfp plus intralipid drip. Unbelievably the only side effect I had was crazy hunger! They didn't affect my sleep at all! I was on the very high plan, are you? Everyone reacts differently to them. A few of us on here have had anxiety and sleeplessness but for some reason I avoided that :shrug: what exactly was 0.8? I can't remember my individual results. I think though that the side effects can wear off once your body is used to them.


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## lisacn

i'm on 25 mgs, i'm hoping the side affects will ease as its hard to function the next day when you haven't slept. I've already spoken to Occupational health about it so they might cut down my hours, i'd have to look up my blood test results, i just remember them saying that .8 or below was fine for nk cells and above it was a problem


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## petitpas

Hi Lisa!
I was all wired the first month I took the steroids. The second month things calmed down very quickly and in the end, apart from hunger, I felt ok.


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## lisacn

thanks, i haven't really felt hungry but have felt bloated, its the tiredness that i'm really struggling with, I am really really hoping that this will settle down


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## beachlover1

Hey girls, I'm back and officially in the trial ;) got a BFP 2 weeks ago at 9dpo. On 20mg pred and 400mg twice a day progesterone :) 

ShittIng myself!!!! Now 5 weeks, 12500 miles from home in new Zealand ;) here tIl I'm 8 weeks so I'm scan free til then unfortunately and winging it!! Soooo nervous xx


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## filipenko32

Hi beach, I really hope this turns out perfectly for you! Hope the side effects are not too much. Hope you can enjoy your holiday too! How many miscarriages have you had? X


----------



## beachlover1

Thanks fili, I've had 3 and have elevated nk cells even when I had had steroid treatment. Elevated but not too high! I'm crossing my fingers.

I see your ticker....but I also saw your posts! Any news? Really hope it's a goer for you xxx

Oh and I have zero side effects (other than a sore bottom lol :) from the suppositories, I don't do vaginally as they leak!!! )


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## lisacn

hey beachlover where in NZ are you from, I grew up In Auckland :flower:


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## filipenko32

Great news beach maybe with every day of taking them the nk cells will come down that bit much more? Ohhh, I'll be stalking! X x x


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## petitpas

Ooh, dare I say, what a great way to while away those first few weeks - on holiday! I bet you're having a fabulous time. Please say hello from me to any penguins you may come across. I love those little creatures!

I'll update the first post on this thread...


----------



## petitpas

leylak said:


> I had used that conversion page :) Doc put me on 0.5 mg dex

Wow leylak, that does sound pretty low. Have you spoken to your doc about it?
I only know two prednisolone treatment protocols. One prescribes 20mg from bfp, the other prescribes 25mg from ovulation. Maybe you could take that info to your doctor and ask why your dose is so much lower? Maybe dexamethasone has a different treatment dose?


----------



## Amos2009

Hi everyone.....can I join? I am a new steroid junkie. Started using it purposefully this cycle without my doctor's knowledge. He does not believe in NK cells, but after 7 losses, I am throwing everything at it this time. I started 20mg from a few days after O, and am now waiting for either a BFP or AF to show. (pretty sure it's AF). 
Just wanted to say hi....now I am off to try and catch up on this thread!


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## hopeful23456

hi amos! i really hope its a bfp!!!!


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## Amos2009

Thanks Hopeful....I was pretty psyched for a few days with my symptoms, but after today's BFN, I'm not holding out a lot of hope.


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## petitpas

Me, too :hugs:
Hoping you can try the effectiveness of the steroids very soon!


----------



## lexi374

Hi ladies im still stalking you just waiting for that damn bfp so i can officially join you all on the steroids! Had a big temp drop today so looks like im out this cycle... on to the next :dohh:

Do you think that the nk cells make it harder for me to get bfp/ implantation? Does anyone know of anything i can take in the meantime to lower them? (Apart from steroids, as im not supposed to take them til bfp) 

Fili sorry to read about your latest pregnancy :hugs:

Pip and hopeful glad you are doing well gives us hope :hugs:

:hi: to all the other ladies :hugs:


----------



## leylak

petitpas said:


> leylak said:
> 
> 
> I had used that conversion page :) Doc put me on 0.5 mg dex
> 
> Wow leylak, that does sound pretty low. Have you spoken to your doc about it?
> I only know two prednisolone treatment protocols. One prescribes 20mg from bfp, the other prescribes 25mg from ovulation. Maybe you could take that info to your doctor and ask why your dose is so much lower? Maybe dexamethasone has a different treatment dose?Click to expand...

Idk much about dex. I haven't talked about the dose yet. I didn't get my NK levels checked, I asked the doc but he said it is a costly test and treatment (I think he meant the intralipid treatment). So he is focusing on lowering my thyroid antibodies. I am on a break from monthly visits to the doc. I want to take some time until IUI. I will wait until I get a normal (<2) TSH. I will increase my dex dose again after ovulation. My aunt (ob&gyn) advised me to start baby asprin then. This will be sth new this cycle.


----------



## Amber3

Hi there
I have a question for you guys. I am interesting in trying out steroids because nothing else has seemed to work for me;/
I hope you will share with me what exactly what medicine you took (and did you have succes?) and were you tested for immunological issues before you started your treatment or did you just try it out (which is what I am considering)?
I hope you will advise me guys,
Best wishes,
Amber


----------



## Hope39

leylak said:


> petitpas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leylak said:
> 
> 
> I had used that conversion page :) Doc put me on 0.5 mg dex
> 
> Wow leylak, that does sound pretty low. Have you spoken to your doc about it?
> I only know two prednisolone treatment protocols. One prescribes 20mg from bfp, the other prescribes 25mg from ovulation. Maybe you could take that info to your doctor and ask why your dose is so much lower? Maybe dexamethasone has a different treatment dose?Click to expand...
> 
> Idk much about dex. I haven't talked about the dose yet. I didn't get my NK levels checked, I asked the doc but he said it is a costly test and treatment (I think he meant the intralipid treatment). So he is focusing on lowering my thyroid antibodies. I am on a break from monthly visits to the doc. I want to take some time until IUI. I will wait until I get a normal (<2) TSH. I will increase my dex dose again after ovulation. My aunt (ob&gyn) advised me to start baby asprin then. This will be sth new this cycle.Click to expand...

Leylak, how is your doc getting your antibodies down and what was your antibody level, my thyroid antibodies are 417! Apparently normal is 30


My recurrent miscarriage consultant told me of a patient of hers that had thyroid antibodies and they were treating her with just thyroxine. She managed to make it to 8.5 weeks which was the furthest she had ever got, i'll get an update on her when i go back in feb

Wouldn't it be great if it was my thyroid that has caused all the miscarriages that i have had and being on thyroxine cures it all :)


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## petitpas

Thyroid issues really are a cause of recurrent miscarriages so it is important to get that under control. It is totally feasible that sorting that out might fix your problem.

Amber, I was tested before having treatment. I understand that the tests are not available everywhere but do you have a doctor on board to supervise your treatment when you are in it?


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## Hope39

My thyroid tsh was 1.3 at beginning of december so all sorted for me now, didn't take long to get it to that

I will have another blood test this week to check it is still ok


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## filipenko32

That's great hope, what a difference!

pip, can you update my angel status on the front page? Let's hope it changes in a few months time! X


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## petitpas

Oh fili, I wish I didn't have to :cry:
I have everything crossed that you will be back in preggo/hope-land soon.

Did I get that right that you will be trying your next pregnancy off steroids? I'll update the front page for now but let me know if I'm wrong. In the meantime, please don't stop cold turkey and wean yourself off slowly. Cold turkey gives Ouchy Ouchy headaches!


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## filipenko32

I weaned down to 10mg so stopped now as they interfere with the mc pills. And feel fine. All in all I had an easy time with the steroids aside from the hunger! Not sure whether I will try them again, probably going to talk to dr s about it at least.


----------



## Amber3

I have a fertility doctor but we are in two different countris which makes everything complicated (recently I have not heard back from him about his thoughts on me trying out steroids)
I contacted an immunological specialist in NY Dr. Braverman and shortly told him about my story. He thinks I have immunological issues and would have me as a patient it seems and do a lot of tests and then treatment. However I am afraid that all that stuff is going to be very very expensive, so if my good old doctor would support that I just try out steroids on my own first, then I think I would do that.
Amber


----------



## beachlover1

hi all

Filli im really sorry to hear your news!!:hugs:

AMOS.....Hello AGAIN!!!! im soooooooo hoping its your turn soon...its been a long journey.

Im feeling fine on the "roids" wouldnt know i was on them TBH. i guess after my last high dosage this 20mg feels like a dream! feel sick a bit, really tired, but thats it really. i am eating ALOT!! Look about 4 months preggers already.....BLOATED!!!! Im meant to be scanned in a few days but as im in NZ thats not gonna happen, so im just hoping and praying all is well, I hate this stage sooooo much. Lots of the usual stretchy cramps, so we shall see. I was told the steroids would/may mask symptoms of pregs.....any one else hear this??

I really hope everyone is ok....and has good news soon xxx


----------



## Amos2009

BEACH!!! What's going on girly??? You preggers again? TTC? Where are you in your journey? How's the little one?


----------



## beachlover1

hey Amos, yep im perggers again. Diagnosed with high NKs after another MC back in July. Now 6 weeks and have about 2 weeks to go til my "dreaded" stage!!! on the steroids so we shall see. really nervous!!

LO is keeping me v busy though....18 months old now!

How are you?? great to see you back.....its been a rough old time for you xx


----------



## leylak

Hope39 said:


> leylak said:
> 
> 
> Idk much about dex. I haven't talked about the dose yet. I didn't get my NK levels checked, I asked the doc but he said it is a costly test and treatment (I think he meant the intralipid treatment). So he is focusing on lowering my thyroid antibodies. I am on a break from monthly visits to the doc. I want to take some time until IUI. I will wait until I get a normal (<2) TSH. I will increase my dex dose again after ovulation. My aunt (ob&gyn) advised me to start baby asprin then. This will be sth new this cycle.
> 
> Leylak, how is your doc getting your antibodies down and what was your antibody level, my thyroid antibodies are 417! Apparently normal is 30
> 
> 
> My recurrent miscarriage consultant told me of a patient of hers that had thyroid antibodies and they were treating her with just thyroxine. She managed to make it to 8.5 weeks which was the furthest she had ever got, i'll get an update on her when i go back in feb
> 
> Wouldn't it be great if it was my thyroid that has caused all the miscarriages that i have had and being on thyroxine cures it all :)Click to expand...

When I started dex in september, my anti TPO was 297 and anti Tg was 475. I started gluten free diet then. In november, anti TPO was 262 and anti Tg was 233. Normal for the lab is 57 and 64 respectively. Dexamethasone and/or gluten free diet decreased the levels, I think. My TSH levels increased from 2.7 to 3.5 in the mean time in spite of thyroxine. Doc upped my thy. dose after the last results and I don't know how it is now. TSH level is important for pregnancy and conception but I don't know what my problem is. When I conceived, my TSH was below 2. on the day of MC (D&C), it was still below 2, so I don't think my MC was caused by low thyroid. But now I have trouble conceiving. Maybe it is because of TSH levels :shrug:
I know that many patients with hashi don't get steroids and they have no problems about conceiving and carrying once their TSH levels are under control. How is your TSH running? I hope thyroxine cures it all for you!


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## Hope39

Hi Leylak

Thanks for replying. Apparently i haven't got hashimoto's yet, doctor told me wrong, but i do have auto immune thyroid disease (my T4 was ok so its not hashimoto's). It all confuses me to be honest

I was reading about dex yesterday actually, i had not heard of it before until a lady from b&b sent me a link about thyroid antibodies

Mine were 417 when i got tested (think i said that already) and my tsh is now 1.3 so tsh is fine

I might look into the gluten free diet, i started a diet last week and have lost 5lb so far, i have only had one slice of bread all week too so i can cope without bread. Smoothies with hemp milk are going down a treat in the mornings and hemp products are really good for you (tastes rank on its own, i have never tasted anything so disgusting in all my life but stick some frozen fruit, banana, ground almonds and pumpkin seeds in and its lush)

I might mention the dex to my consultant when i see her in feb

Thanks


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## leylak

Hope,
As far as I know, hashimoto's is a throid auto immune disease where anti TPO and anti TG (thyroid antibodies) are above upper limit. The level of the TSH and T4 are irrelevant. Once your body eats up your thyroid gland, TSH increases and t4 decreases. But before then, you already have Hashimoto's. My T4 level is fine too, and my TSH has increased only this year. But apparently, I have had thyroid antibodies for a long time.

If you have any link regarding the use of Dex for Hashimoto's, I would like to see it. Because my internet search showed that steroids are used for Hashimoto's encephalopathy, but I couldn't find anything about steroid for ladies TTC


----------



## busybeaver

Hi Hope, Leylak,

Hope you don't mind, just wanted to add my own 2 cents as a fellow hashi.

Leylak, you ares right; if your free values (FT4 and FT3) are still within the reference range, but you have a detectable level of anti-bodies, you have so called "subclinical thyroiditis". Can still affect you during pregnancy, so needs to be looked at - which your docs thankfully do.

I guess you know about the studies that indicate a larger risk of miscarriage if you have thyroid anti-bodies. It could also be that the anti-bodies are not related, just a sign that something else in your immune system is out of synch. There is quite a lot of info on the miscarriage research website Cant post the link as I dont have enough posts, yet. :dohh:
Someone on the recurrent miscarriage thread posted it a while back and I found it incredibly useful.

Steroids are used to treat autoimmune diseases, which usually means getting rid of the anti-bodies, they are just not prescribed for Thyroiditis, as ANti Tg and TPO don't hurt. I think it is definitely worth a try! 

Oh, and my GP recommended taking Selenium to bring them down- available in Hollands and Barretts. I am not sure it works, since I have not had my levels checked since I started.
Eating gluten free could help; I read that people with Autoimmune diseases can also develop an over-reaction to gluten.

Hope you find the right doses soon!!


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## Amos2009

beachlover1 said:


> hey Amos, yep im perggers again. Diagnosed with high NKs after another MC back in July. Now 6 weeks and have about 2 weeks to go til my "dreaded" stage!!! on the steroids so we shall see. really nervous!!
> 
> LO is keeping me v busy though....18 months old now!
> 
> How are you?? great to see you back.....its been a rough old time for you xx

Wow....already 18 months???? God, I've been here forever LOL

Congrats on your new pregnancy. I hope everything goes well. 

And yes- rough journey for me. Giving it one more try this year before I turn 40 then I think it's time to quit.


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## petitpas

Beach, I hope the holiday is keeping you as relaxed as possible at the mo! Will you be coming back before your dreaded week?
I can't remember if you are on any blood thinners but if not it might be an idea to take an aspirin before your long flight back...

As for steroids masking symptoms, they did act funny with me. My bbs actually shrunk at first instead of growing as they normally do. I was really nauseous in first tri (still am now sometimes - today being a prime example) and thought nothing was masked until I stopped the steroids and threw up a few times. My doctor thinks (and I believe him) that had I not been on the steroids I would have been throwing up a lot. Steroids are sometimes used to treat vomiting and nausea in pregnancy.


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## beachlover1

Hey Petit.....its awesome you have got so far!!!

so far im fine fingers crossed!! im 6 weeks today....dreaded week is next week so we shall see. Am gagging at anything (nappy changes are tricky ;-) ) and feel sick permanently.....never had this so early before so im hoping and praying its a good sign.

great idea re the aspirin, not on it this time, strangely enough.....another thing i have done differently, ill go find somewhere that has the 75mg dose and pop one a day before the flight. With all being well ill be 8 weeks by then. Im remaining non plussed and kinda ignoring the thought of being preggers, at the same time being really optimistic in the hope that positive thoughts work!!!

hope alls well with everyone xxx


----------



## petitpas

Well, the little aspirins shouldn't cause any harm (especially since you've been on them before and did not spontaneously combust through a stomach ulcer).
The ones I take are US dosage - 81mg - and are considered ok the same as 75mg. Just in case NZ follow the US and you were left standing in the pharmacy wondering what to do...

Beach, I think you are on exactly the right track thinking as positively as possible :thumbup: and I am keeping everything (except ducky because I can't exactly reach him) crossed for you :hugs:

Keep enjoying that holiday!
Xxx


----------



## beachlover1

hi All, im finally home!! ;-) had a scan today...........all looked spot on!!!!! ;-) 8weeks and 1 day according to my dates and 8 weeks and 1 day according to the measurements. HB looks good, im so relieved to have got over the 7 week mark.....a long way to go i know, but im hanging in there and crossing all for a scan in 2 weeks!!!! 

Oh, anyone get a bit shakey on these Roids????? my hands are a bit shakey. i rememeber it from before now....is it just me???


----------



## petitpas

Hi Beach, congratulations on your fabulous scan!!! When are you getting your next look at your bubs?

I had the shakey feeling sometimes. They'd make me a bit buzzy and hyper sometimes, too.


----------



## filipenko32

Great news beach!!!! :cloud9:


----------



## niknak242

Can I jump in here? I haven't been around because knowing I had months to go before TTC again was so hard. But now, here we are, a month away! 

I was diagnosed with High NK cells after my 4th loss. I also have Factor V Leiden. My next pregnancy I will be doing intralipid and lovenox.


----------



## filipenko32

Hi niknak welcome and sorry for your losses,:hugs: so will you go for the steroids aswell. How much will you take and when from?


----------



## lexi374

Congratulations Beach thats brilliant news! :happydance: Are you on meds from Prof Quenby? :hugs:

Welcome ninak sorry for your losses fx for next time. :hugs:

Fili hope you are holding up ok? :hugs:

Hi pip are you and ducky well? :hugs:


----------



## petitpas

Hi Lexi, ducky and I are doing well, thank you! We are on our last day of a holiday and will soon be back to our routine of blood tests, hospital appointments and scans...

Niknak, congratulations on heading back to ttc-land! Besides fili's question about steroids (will you be taking them along with the intralipids?), I just wanted to check that you would also be taking a baby aspirin every day? That is the most common way to treat Factor V Leiden (which I also have). The reason aspirin is given as well as heparin is because heparin does not cross the placenta but aspirin does and therefore it protects against clots on the baby's side of the placenta.


----------



## beachlover1

Hi Lexi

yes im under care of Prof Quenby. Steoids and progesterone. I go back in 2 weeks for scan 2....i hope to be 10 weeks and she will then reduce the meds if all is well. ITs gonna be a looooooooong two weeks xx


----------



## GillAwaiting

Beechlover 1 can I ask you about coming off the meds. Im currently 13w3days (i hope, last scan a week ago). My private fertility cons has me weaning off the steroids now. :wacko: It takes 2 weeks to wean off, 5mgs tabs, 5 for 5 days, 4 for 4 days, 3..etc. Also just off the estrogen, clexane, progesterone (but I must admit Im still taking one suppository a day, cos Im terrified) I also decided myself to continue the low dose aspirin until I see the new cons at the public hospital. Its very scary coming off the meds and Im just wondering if Prof Quenby by rule gets people off the meds at 12 weeks. I've been on all these meds for months when treatment was back to back so its good to get off the steroids. The side effects have been horrendous. I currently have this massive load of fat on my stomach which I never had and started at about 6 weeks of steroids. It looks like Im about 6 mths pregnant and is quite embarrassing when Im so early on. (facial hair, peeing all night, ah I won't miss those things!).

Thanks. I'd love to hear anyone elses input for coming off the meds. :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Hi gill, I can understand how scared you are. And i was on the steroids for my last pregnancy but unfortunately it wasn't meant to be, however my weight increase in a short amount of time was vast!! I'm glad to be off them now and the weight came off pretty quickly. With regards to coming off them, I know pip did (the poster who started this thread) and she is absolutely fine. I'm not too sure you should come off the aspirin or clex though. I think you're right to wait for a second opinion. I thought aspirin and/or clex were stopped at 34-36 weeks?? I think that is what Lesley regan recommends. Good luck to you! I remember reading earlier posts by you and you thought you'd lost this baby, I'm so happy for you that you're now 13 weeks!! :cloud9:


----------



## lexi374

beachlover1 said:


> Hi Lexi
> 
> yes im under care of Prof Quenby. Steoids and progesterone. I go back in 2 weeks for scan 2....i hope to be 10 weeks and she will then reduce the meds if all is well. ITs gonna be a looooooooong two weeks xx

You give me hope! :thumbup:

I saw Prof Quenby last Oct for the NK test, mine came back at 10.2%. Do you mind me asking what your result was?

Im just waiting on BFP now so i can get started on this treatment. I saw my gp yest with the info from Quenby and she said she will prescribe progesterone but not steroids as she could be struck off! She is going to contact the Prof i think and discuss it with her. :shrug:


----------



## beachlover1

Hi Gill

Ive been on steroids back in july for 3 months for an eye operation, I was on 40mg 2wk, 30 mg 2wk then 20mg 3wk then each week after that dropped 5mg. It was absolutely fine i have to say!! 

Prof quenby has me on 20mg from BFP then im on them til 10 weeks. At 10 weeks im scanned then i drop to 10mg for a week then 5mg for a week. Im not nervous about weening off them it was fine last time! I hate the side effects...i was asked at check in at the airport last week "how many weeks pregnant are you?" FFS!!!!!!!!!!! im 8 weeks......not even an are you pregnant? she didnt believe me and said i look more and have i got a docs letter?!!.....my doctor doesnt even bloody know!! So, yes i have a bloated tum, cant stop eating and the cellulite looking body is back ;-) but it vanishes REAL FAST when the meds stop i promise.

you defo dont need progesterone now, i come off that at 10 weeks.....as soon as you see a placent has formed the progesterone is not important.

As for clexane and aspirin....not sure.

Keep in there....second tri is sooooooooooo easy!!!! (i have a LO to prove it) xxxx


----------



## beachlover1

lexi374 said:


> beachlover1 said:
> 
> 
> Hi Lexi
> 
> 
> I saw Prof Quenby last Oct for the NK test, mine came back at 10.2%. Do you mind me asking what your result was?
> 
> Im just waiting on BFP now so i can get started on this treatment. I saw my gp yest with the info from Quenby and she said she will prescribe progesterone but not steroids as she could be struck off! She is going to contact the Prof i think and discuss it with her. :shrug:
> 
> OMG I cant believe you GP said that......im sure thats a over reation as its not really true if shes advised by a consultant. Mine didnt bat an eye lid!! She will if shes advised by prof that its ok surely.
> 
> My NK came back at 6%........not too high at first glance BUT i was ALREADY on steroids and had been for 2 months at the time!!!!!!! so without steroids she though it would have been up around 15% or so!!!!
> :wacko:
> 
> good luck for the BFP!!!!Click to expand...


----------



## beachlover1

these progesterone supossitories/pessaries whatever things.......i cant bare them. 

OK TMI alert......if i put them up my bottom (yuk) it gets sore after a few days, but i dont get it running out!! If i do them vaginally....they run out all over the place as they melt if i stand up, so i have to lie down. This is fine at bedtime, but not morning. Do you guys find this???? i cant bare them....the trickling out bit freaks me out.....i keep doing knicker checks for blood!!!!!!!!:wacko:

Also im paranoid some of my beloved progesterone is trickling down my legs and being lost!!!!!!!!:growlmad:


gross i know......:thumbup:


----------



## filipenko32

My gp wouldn't prescribe them either x


----------



## lexi374

beachlover1 said:


> lexi374 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beachlover1 said:
> 
> 
> Hi Lexi
> 
> 
> I saw Prof Quenby last Oct for the NK test, mine came back at 10.2%. Do you mind me asking what your result was?
> 
> Im just waiting on BFP now so i can get started on this treatment. I saw my gp yest with the info from Quenby and she said she will prescribe progesterone but not steroids as she could be struck off! She is going to contact the Prof i think and discuss it with her. :shrug:
> 
> OMG I cant believe you GP said that......im sure thats a over reation as its not really true if shes advised by a consultant. Mine didnt bat an eye lid!! She will if shes advised by prof that its ok surely.
> 
> My NK came back at 6%........not too high at first glance BUT i was ALREADY on steroids and had been for 2 months at the time!!!!!!! so without steroids she though it would have been up around 15% or so!!!!
> :wacko:
> 
> good luck for the BFP!!!!Click to expand...
> 
> Wow 15%!?!
> 
> She said they are banned during pregnancy and she cant just prescribe them just because some1 tell her too! She also said there hasnt been enough published studies on NK cells etc. Shes a bit old school. I will see if she gets back to me, or i will have to go and get the prescription from Quenby when i need it.Click to expand...


----------



## filipenko32

Beach it helped me to put them in just before I went to sleep


----------



## beachlover1

filipenko32 said:


> Beach it helped me to put them in just before I went to sleep

yes i agree this works!! :flower: BUT i have to do them twice a day.....in the mornings too so im finding i wake at 5am to stick em in.....not exactly conducive to a great sleep LOL all for a good reason though:thumbup:


----------



## petitpas

Beach, what dosage are you on? I was on 400mg once/day. I used to take them in the front but because I constantly needed the toilet it'd often trickle out. So I used them up the back. Unless I had bowel issues. Then I'd go back the other way :dohh: 

As for the steroids, Mr S prescribed them to me privately initially but then my GP wrote out the prescriptions. There are many reasons for pregnant women to take steroids so the striking off comment was an overreaction. However, the NHS trial for nkcells is not yet complete so your doctor may not believe in the treatment. It isn't proven and there are no guidelines so if your doc is not a believer she is perfectly within the NHS rules not to prescribe. It is odd, though, that she will not take guidance from your specialist. Can't you ask Prof Quenby to give you a prescription?

As for the aspirin and heparin, I believe the general idea is to stay on aspirin until around 36 weeks. It is known to prevent preeclampsia amongst other things...
Heparin is another matter. If you tested negative for all clotting issues and antiphospholipid syndrome and there is no family history of clots then most doctors will prefer to take you off the injections after first tri. If you tested positive for a clotting issue or are high risk due to your family history then I think you will probably need to stay on the injections until six weeks after delivery.

When I was weaned off the steroids most of the belly fat disappeared and my bbs grew :D


----------



## beachlover1

just a little update....had another scan today, i couldnt wait 2 weeks, not during my dodgiest time so they took pity on me and had me back in after a week, all good:happydance: baby has had a growth spurt in the last week, now showing at 9w4d jumped up a whole 3 days :winkwink:

so all right on track..........PLEASE let me be over the hurdle!!!!!:thumbup:

hope all are well!


----------



## filipenko32

Brilliant beach!!!!!! X x


----------



## petitpas

Wohoo, beach! You made it past the eighth week! :yipee:


----------



## lexi374

Congratulations beach im so pleased for you x


----------



## filipenko32

Lexi how are you doing?


----------



## petitpas

Fili, I updated the first post with your results :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks pip, I just tried calling Louise Simmonds but she doesn't work on Fridays. I think we will definitely try the steroids again until we have a normal loss. But hopefully no more losses! What shall I do about trying straight after? I ov in 5 days?! Shall I opk and steroid munch until af? But hopefully no af. Dr s says wait for one clear cycle though but I don't want to do that. Plan to say it was an accident again if I do get preggo! You know on a non preg cycle taking steroids do you just stop cold turkey?


----------



## petitpas

I stopped cold turkey after ten days of taking steroids. To be honest, I don't know what the cut off is requiring weaning. Maybe Louise can answer your question.


----------



## lexi374

filipenko32 said:


> Lexi how are you doing?


Im blah!! Another bfn for me! Just waiting for AF then onto the next cycle! It seems like everyone around me is pregnant except me!! :growlmad:

Getting sick of trying...... but hey ho cant give up!

How are you hun? Are you going to try again straight away? :hugs:


----------



## petitpas

Oh sorry, Lexi!

Remind yourself that you might be waiting a little longer but your next one will be a sticky one! :hugs:


----------



## lexi374

Thanks im trying!! Dh has brought some steaks and pink champagne for tonight so gonna make the most of that! 

Its good to see success stories on here though, it keeps me going! :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Lexi I often think that those women who seem to have a slightly bigger gap between mc are more successful, pip is right your next one is definitely going to stick and it won't be long now. 

Yes we are going to try to catch the egg next week before af but I'm doubtful I will as we never do! Then I'm back on the steroids at ov next week as my last lost was trisomy.


----------



## beachlover1

Ah Fili...sorry about that result!! 

Id just go straight into it, your body will be geared up etc. Then re the steriods and cold turkey, i was told that a short course is ok to stop but more than a couple of weeks you really need to go 20, 10, 5 stop. just so you know your body is making cortisone on its own. But 10 days im sure would be fine to stop. .....but im not a doctor!! ;-)


----------



## lexi374

filipenko32 said:


> Lexi I often think that those women who seem to have a slightly bigger gap between mc are more successful, pip is right your next one is definitely going to stick and it won't be long now.
> 
> Yes we are going to try to catch the egg next week before af but I'm doubtful I will as we never do! Then I'm back on the steroids at ov next week as my last lost was trisomy.

Thanks, i hope so!

Sorry to read that your last loss was trisomy 18 (i had to google what that was) but hopefully your next pregnancy will be ok and the steroids will work for you. :hugs:


----------



## lexi374

Ladies quick ? how long after stopping progesterone pessaries will af return? I thought it was a couple of days but i had my last 1 fri am and still no sign of af, and temp was still a little up this am (def not preggo!) Just want af so i can get on with next cycle!! :growlmad:


----------



## filipenko32

Not sure lex as I've never taken it on a non preg cycle. How much were you taking? Still it's only been a couple of days, bet you get it in the next day or 2 x x


----------



## lexi374

It was the first time ive used it. I was on 200 x twice a day, still no sign.. hope it hasnt totally screwed my cycles up! :growlmad:


----------



## filipenko32

Lexi I'm sure af will arrive today or tomorrow x x


----------



## tansey

Hi Ladies :wave:

I've been following the thread for a while but haven't posted for a couple of reasons
1. I didn't know if I had uNK cells
2. I can't get pg easily

But I've just had an email from Prof Q and the biopsy showed that I have a level of 6.9% with 5% being the upper limit of normal. I have to ring Prof Q tomorrow to discuss these results.

I hope I can get pg soon to try out the steroids and join you all properly.
I wish you all loads of luck! :dust:


----------



## filipenko32

Glad you got a result tansey! All the best of luck to you!


----------



## lexi374

Hi tansey, i found out i had high uNK cells at the end of November 10.2%.

I dont get pregnant very easily either and am still waiting for a bfp so i can try out the steroids. Good luck to you! :hugs:


----------



## hopeful23456

good luck tansey!

lexi - i would get AF about 2-3 days after stopping prog, one time i even got AF while on it but it was a very early chemical preg.. I would start prog at 48 hours after ovu.
if AF doesn't come after a week, call the dr. if it takes a LONG time, they can give you a shot to regulate your system again.

i'm down to 2.5 mg of prednisone a day and done on Monday! I did wean off (saw there was a question on that)

did 20 mg/day at bfp
went to 15 mg/day beg 13 wks
down to 10 mg/day beg 14 wks
down to 5 mg/day beg 15 wks
down to 2.5 mg/day beg 16 wks and done after this week.

i really didn't have any side effects but the extreme hunger early on which was probably due to being preg too. i took it at noon every day.


----------



## lexi374

Hopeful thanks for the reply, its been 4 days now and no sign. My doc told me to start them at 7dpo for 7 days, she said not to start straight after ov as this could cause an ectopic! :shrug: I only did 5 days as i knew i wasnt preg then, and didnt want to prolong the cycle, i assumed i would bleed 2-3 days later as this seemed the norm. Im worried now ive screwed things up, never used them before. Will give it a week then contact the doc.


----------



## tansey

Lexi how are you so sure you're not PG? With progest pessaries while doing IVF I had spotting before AF.


----------



## lexi374

I tested friday, saturday and yesterday!! :wacko:


----------



## tansey

Oh no! I hate it when there's no sign of :witch: but the tests are :bfn: NOT that, that happens much to me!
:hugs:


----------



## lexi374

Yeah its crap, its the first time ive used them, im not sure whether i will again! I thought it would help!


----------



## hopeful23456

lexi - I did IUI with the cycles I used them on so I know exactly when I ovulated (due to meds) - so it was exactly 48 hours after ovu/IUI. it would be harder to determine if you were doing natural cycles...

you didn't mess anything up, sometimes it just takes a little longer to get AF for some girls.


----------



## petitpas

Lexi, how annoying! :hugs:
I did the same as hopeful, started prog at 2-3dpo (I confirmed with temping). I know you're supposed to make sure you have definitely ovulated (otherwise you can screw it up) and that opks aren't reliable enough to be sure, but 7dpo seems a bit late? Like hopeful, I got af within the 14 day timeframe. I always had a short lp so it is possible that the progesterone prolonged things by 2-3 days. I only took them for two pregnancies and one non pregnant cycle so I don't have much to go by, sorry.
Do you have a chart we can look at?
Are there any signs of a possible impending arrival?

Tansey, welcome to the thread! I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can soon join us in successfully testing out your steroid treatment on a pregnancy fxfxfxfxfx

I'm going to add you to the first post right away...


----------



## petitpas

Lexi, you're ib the first post now, too!


----------



## lexi374

Well ladies im at least 15 dpo today, had some cramps last night so thought thank god shes finally on her way, woke up this morning to slight temp increase tested again and got a super faint line!! Im in shock!!


Spoiler


----------



## lexi374

Clear blue digi says not pregnant though but think these are less sensitive! Have always had a positive by 10 dpo before, am now crapping myself!! Thanks for your help ladies :hugs:


----------



## leylak

congrats lexi! those lines don't seem faint to me :)


----------



## tansey

Great Lexi! :yipee:


----------



## petitpas

What lovely lines! :yipee:
FRERs test down to 10miu, digis pick up somewhere from 25-50miu so there can be a few days before they show up.

Hip hip hooray!


----------



## hopeful23456

lexi - that's great! stay on the progesterone! (it's ok if you stopped but i would start them again)


----------



## filipenko32

Ha Lexington?!!!!! You were so sure too! :yipee: can DEF see a good line there!


----------



## lexi374

Thanks ladies! :hugs:

Have had a nightmare day trying to get hold of theses steroids, my gp is such a pain in the arse! :dohh:

Anyway to cut along story short DH was in birmingham today for a meeting, so he managed to go to coventry after and get the prescription from Prof Quenby herself as gp was not co-operating. She has spoke to my gp and i will get the cyclogest from her tomorrow. (yeah hopeful, i had stopped it fri!) I have 4 weeks of Prednisolone, then Quenby said i should be able to get them from EPAU! We will see i guess.

Yeah fili i was so sure i was out, Ive never had a bfp this late before, now im stressing over the fact ov was late, and then the egg has been floating around for like 2 weeks before it implants. No symptoms. Arggh this is all just 1 big worry will just have to hope and pray as always. :thumbup:


----------



## petitpas

Lexi, that is so lucky that your hubby was able to get your script directly from Prof Q!

You're all on track now :D


----------



## filipenko32

How you doing lexi? Are you joining us on the recurrent mc thread the pal one!? By us I mean them ooops, got to keep reminding myself I'm NOT pregnant! :haha:


----------



## lexi374

Thanks i know the 1 you mean i like to stalk it now and then. :haha:

I will def join when i feel a little more confident. :shrug: At the mo just dont really feel like this could be the 1... i think cos everything was so late and i dont have symptoms etc. Last time i knew before i took a test, this time....:wacko:

My gp was still being a pain today about getting the progesterone! Said this treatment is part of a trial and ill have to get it from hospital.... I was about to fly cos quenby said she had agreed to give it to me, but then she said she will give two weeks and refer me to hospital. Why do they have to be so bloody difficult?! :growlmad:

How everybody else doing? :hugs:


----------



## Amber3

It looks like I will finally be joining your group.
I went to a fancy IVF clinic (although I am not doing IVF) the other day and the doctor agreed to let me try prednisone. However, he just gave me a prescription for 5 mg a day. That is too low right, so I plan to go to my new gyno and hopefully persuade him to up my dose a bit;) 
So I guess I will be starting 100 mg of Aspirin and Prednisone on my next cycle day one. 
Your list of people with succes here has given me hope. I really hope something will finally happen! :happydance:
Best wishes to all of you
Amber


----------



## filipenko32

Good luck Amber! Let me know if you have any questions. How many miscarriages have you had? Sorry you're going through this too :hugs:


----------



## petitpas

Hi Amber! I'm glad you were finally able to discuss this with a doctor :thumbup:

I'm not sure about the dose of prednisone compared to prednisolone. I wonder whether it is the same as prednisolone (which is what I had - 25mg daily)?

I noticed that you plan on starting prednisone on cd1. Do you know why this is?
Most us UK girlies start from ovulation or bfp, depending on which doctor we follow. I think the idea is to minimise the use of steroids in the months we don't fall pregnant. I have no idea whether it is good or bad to start on cd1, just noticed that there is a difference so do you know why?

You've also reminded me to update the front page with another success! Go Lamburai!


----------



## Lamburai1703

Thanks Pip! I'm in the process of reducing my steroids now (down to 20mg now) and have my last intralipids on Friday!


----------



## Amber3

For your warm welcome.

Filipenko, I have had 1 ectopic and 3 biochemical. I have been ttc for almost 5 years and have a bit of endometriosis.

Petitpas, I heard that the doses are the same for prednisone and prednisolone, they are just absorbed differently by the body. I honestly don't know why he prescribed such a low dose and why from day 1. It seems he did not know so much about this stuff but because he did not have a better idea he let me try it. I think I will take matters into my own hands and up the dose from ovulation to 10 mg.
Congratulations Lamburai and Petitpas on your pregnancies. Wow- you must be so relieved to be so far Petitpas.:cloud9:
Best wishes to you all,
Amber


----------



## petitpas

I'll be more relieved when he comes out kicking and screaming, Amber :rofl:
But to be honest, once I passed my critical week (week 8 when most of my babies died) I felt much more relaxed.

Maybe you could suggest that your doctor get in touch with Professor Quenby? I hear that she is very good at responding to emails. As far as I know, her protocol is 20mg from bfp. Lawa had her baby under her supervision and she is the lady running the trial here in the UK.


----------



## lexi374

Hi and welcome Amber, im with Prof Q 20 mg from bfp, just started them this week!

Congratulation Lamb ive seen you around, im really pleased for you! :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Amber another consultant *sigh* I saw the other day was harping on about lower doses being much more effective. This was not dr s and no one I know is on such a low dose. But there you go anyway! Personally I'm following dr s's plan on the higher dose.


----------



## hopeful23456

Lambs- isn't it nice to be weaning off steroids? My last dose is on mon, a mere 2.5 mg prednisone

Amber- I did 20mg at bfp, do they have you increase the dose at bfp? 

Fili- go with the higher dose i think too...

Pip- I'm so glad you started this forum!


----------



## filipenko32

I always thought the 2 pred spelling differences were just typos!!!


----------



## Amber3

Hi there Hopeful,
Gosh you must be so happy to expect twins, gongratulations! Actually my doctor did not mention what happens in case of a pregnancy. He did not really seem to know so much about this stuff. I on the other hand also made it clear to him that I hardly ever get pregnant which is also a reason why I will be taking it before a positive test because I hope it can help with implantation as well.

Filipenko, who is Dr. S?
 
Had any of you pregnant girls tried to conceive for a long time before you were put on steroids and conceived or am I the only long-term-trying-to-conceive person here?
Amber


----------



## lexi374

Ive been trying for number 1 for nearly 4 years, took 2 years to get pregnant the 1st time after coming off depo! :hugs:


----------



## tansey

I'm over 4 years now :(


----------



## hopeful23456

Hi amber, when trying naturally, first time was 11 yrs ago, unplanned.

it took about 3 months each time trying to get preg naturally (preg twice) but I did iui's and got preg each time (3 iuis in 3.5 months resulting in 1 mc at 5 wks, 1 really early chemical- I don't count it as hcg tested only up to 5 which is borderline, and my I got my bfp now) I do ovu normally and have cycles like clockwork. 27 day cycles. Did iui and injectibles to control everything as they didn't know why I had mcs.


----------



## Amber3

Tansey,
Gosh I know how you feel. It is really a long time to wait.


Lexi and now you are pregnant because of the prednisone?

Amber


----------



## lexi374

No i only started the prednisolone when i got a bfp.

I did try progesterone 7 dpo this cycle though....

Other things i started in the last month or so were changing vits to pregnacare plus, also taking omega 3, vitamin d3, so not sure what worked. :shrug: :hugs:


----------



## petitpas

Hi everyone :wave!

Amber, I hope it helps to get you pregnant :kiss:

Hopeful, so exciting that you finished the steroids! I remember being so glad to finish the treatment (although I am forever grateful that it worked) and so happy the next day NOT to have to take that pill :happydance: It was like a whole new era started for ducky.


----------



## beachlover1

Hi everyone.....gosh I've only been away a few days and there's more bfps!!!!

Lambs.......yey yey yey!!!!!! Such good news!
Lexi.....yey, gotta love prof Q!

And welcome newbies

I'm now at 11 weeks plus. Just 5 days til my nuchal. I'm weaning off the roids now. I'm on my last week, 5mg. And I have just a week and half left on the revolting progesterone suppositories ;) yey no more leakage;) 

As the roid dose is reducing the size of my boobs is increasing!!! They are killing me :)

Really glad to see such good news here!!! X


----------



## lexi374

Wow beach you are almost there! :thumbup::happydance:

Yay for Prof Q! :thumbup:

Beach, pip, hopeful, lambs did you have much symptoms in the early days?

Im just tired and sleeping really badly the same as every other pregnancy, but they all ended badly. Also hungry dont know if thats steroids or pregnancy, but boobs were only a tiny bit sore on the sides and now not at all. Just dont feel pregnant... just wondered what it was like early on for you guys as i havent got a successful pregnancy to compare it to. :shrug:


----------



## lexi374

Looks like i got my answer just done a frer - no line!! :cry:


----------



## tansey

Oh no lexi so sorry :hugs:


----------



## Lamburai1703

So sorry Lexi.


----------



## petitpas

Oh Lexi :hugs: I'm so sorry! :cry:


----------



## lexi374

Thanks ladies.

Well that was my shortest pregnancy yet! Just waiting for dh to come home with another test to make sure. Emailed Prof Q she said i can just stop steroids without weaning off and will need to stop progesterone otherwise will not have a bleed. Arghhhhh im soooo pissed off!!! :growlmad: But i will not be beaten!


----------



## tansey

Oh I pray it was a faulty test! :hugs:


----------



## lexi374

Afraid not, just done another test def BFN! Crap!


----------



## tansey

awwww :hissy:
So sorry hun - it's so unfair! :hugs:


----------



## hopeful23456

Lexi- so sorry to hear that, if it's an early chemical, you can get bfp again hopefully quickly! I had a very early chemical the month before my bfp now, I wasn't on steroids for that one.


----------



## lexi374

Thanks hopeful im kinda hoping that will be the case.

I didnt ov after last erpc, but im hoping that as this didnt really go that far i will this time, would be great to catch straight away, and at least i have steroids waiting now, no mad dash across half the country. :hugs:


----------



## beachlover1

Oh lexi, that's rat crap! I'm so sorry. Look, on a positive note, I conceived my son the cycle after my chemical. You'll be super fertile! It's way too early or this to be caused by uNK cells too, this is simply natures way. Go get em in about 3 weeks girl!!!! :) remember the progesterone will delay yr period slightly!! Xxxx


----------



## petitpas

Lexi, that's so mean for you to have everything good to go and then you have a sodding chemical!

I'll update the front page but only temporarily. I expect you will be back with a :flasher: very soon and a sticky steroid one at that! Big hugs to you and so so sorry Xxx


----------



## Amber3

I am sorry about your chemical pregnancy. I hope you will get a sticky bean soon. From the perspective of someone who only ever had chemicals (and one ectopic) at least you don't have too much time to get your hopes and dreams going when it is over that early.

](*,) 

I wish you all the best,
Amber


----------



## lexi374

Thanks Amber, and good luck to you. :hugs:

Have been cramping alot this evening and seen a tiny bit of spotting so hopefully things are on the way.


----------



## LeeC

Hi everyone.

I am just wondering about the pred? I have a bad cold at the moment and am suspecting that it may take me longer to fight it off due to the roids lowering my own immune system.
Anyway, this damn cold started on the Tuesday, I came off the roids last Sunday.
I was on them for 3 weeks this time as AF was very cruel and showed up a week late.
I have read that if you are on pred for more than 7 days you should wean off them as if you stop abruptly it can cause adrenal crash.
I always just stop them and have been feeling particularly crappy despite the cold, how does everyone else manage the pred?
Do you just stop or wean off each month at your BFN?
Thanks x


----------



## petitpas

Lee, I stopped cold turkey when I was only on them for ten days and got a bfn. It gave me the most awful headaches :(

When I weaned off in pregnancy I did it step by step.
You can get the pills in 25mg and 5mg sizes. If you have another bfn with late af (hope not!) maybe do a mini-wean? You might want to check with your doc... but instead of stopping cold turkey maybe go down 5-10mg per day until you stop?

Your immune system is probably a bit affected so your cold is worse but unfortunately it's the season anyway :(
I caught a nasty cold a couple of weeks after finishing the roids and it lasted three weeks (mind, I wasn't the only one in the family to get it) - Bleurgh :sick:
I hope yours clears up much much faster :hugs:
Also sending you more :dust: for your next cycle :kiss:


----------



## Amber3

Hi there Girls

So I am on my 3rd day of 5 mg prednisolone (will up the dose to 10 mg after ovulation) but honestly I am not feeling very hopeful.
Have any of you veer heard of a person with endometriosis who finally got pregnant just because of Steroids? 
I also have a practical question, should I stop taking immune boosting supplements like D-vitamin, Zink, Vit C etc now that I am on roids, or does it not matter (I guess the idea is to make the immune go down so I don't want to do something counter productive)
Amber


----------



## tansey

Amber I have endo and got pg 3 times naturally - so there is hope!


----------



## petitpas

Amber, I have endo, too. There is a claim that women with endo are more likely to have nkcell issues.

I am on vitamin D and pregnacare plus, which adds omega 3 to the usual previt selection. This is on doctor's orders.
I also take extra folic acid. Just in case.

Sorry, I can't comment on vit c and zinc. Fili, you're more knowledgeable on the supplements, if I remember correctly. Can you help?


----------



## lexi374

My friend has endo and is now 13 weeks, no meds :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Hmmm I'm not sure about the zinc or vit c. I know theyre good for fertility, vit c is an antioxidant and zinc... Hmmm I will have a think!


----------



## Amber3

Gosh, Thank you so much guys for giving me a bit of hope. So Petitpas, you were on all this when you conceived, as well as the prednisolon?
How much D vit do you take? (I have only ever conceived in the summer months so I thought maybe D-vit plays a role here too)
Amber


----------



## filipenko32

Amber yes to the pip question, she was. And re vit d I take 1000 of whatever unit it comes in x x


----------



## Amber3

Thank you guys.
Gosh. I just wish that this steroid stuff will finally make a difference for me and help me conceive.
... 
I can´t imagine it actually. Well in any case I will start taking at least 1000 IU D3 every day from now on since it can't hurt.

All the best wishes,
Amber


----------



## tansey

I've decided to take progesterone and steroids from 7DPO this cycle. My IUI was canx again but I did the trigger and we had :sex: anyway.

Take a look at www.fertilitypoints.com and let me know what you think ladies, my DH wrote it. If you think it's any good please tell your friends. It's an info site not a forum like this one. THanks :flower:


----------



## petitpas

Amber, I am on the same dose of vitamin D3 as Fili: 1,000iu or 25microgram (not milligram/mg).
I don't know whether you can get Pregnacare Plus with the omega 3 in Austria. I couldn't find it in France and when I looked at their omega 3 pills they had a completely different dosage, which I was not sure was good for pregnancy. You can check the pregnacare dosages online for comparison.
I used the above, along with baby aspirin, every day before conceiving. Steroids I took from ovulation.

I ought to add that I have never had issues conceiving without all the above.


----------



## filipenko32

Pip, I'm enquiring for my friend: are steroids helpful for women who can't actually get pregnant when everything else has been ruled out? I think they are aren't they immunologically wise?


----------



## petitpas

Fili, some IVF clinics use them, especially for those who have failed two or three rounds already. Some fertility clinics use them all the time.
I suppose the steroids would have to be taken from ovulation.
Please don't ask me about evidence or research on the subject as I have no idea but it all falls under Dr Beer's subject field. Maybe recommend his book to your friend so she can have a read?


----------



## hopeful23456

I think if you have super high nk cells, you take before bfp and if your nk cells aren't too high, take at bfp.


----------



## petitpas

Hopeful, here in the UK it depends on the doctor. The Professor lady seems to start everyone at bfp, my Dr S starts at ovulation.

I would think that if someone is struggling to fall pregnant (no bfp rather than rpl) then ovulation might be a better time to start?

Did you have any testing before going on the roids or what did your doc do, hopeful?


----------



## hopeful23456

my blood nk was 11% (the lab test paperwork said that normal is 4% - 25% but 25% seems pretty high to be normal) and i've heard some docs treat with steriods at 12% or higher. my re just had me take them as empirical treatment to rule anything out (with lovenox) and I had also asked to be put on it at the same time (after 4 early m/cs). my re didn't think the 11% blood nk was anything to worry about.

here's an interesting post, but, don't know if it's blood nk or uterine nk they are talking about in the first post? must be about uterine. I didn't get uterine nk tested.

https://www.fertilityzone.co.uk/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=21833


----------



## filipenko32

The doc has given me clomid to jump start my period! So after I ov I am back on the Roids!


----------



## leylak

good luck!


----------



## petitpas

Wowee, fili! I hope it works a treat! :dust:


----------



## tansey

Good luck fili! :dust:

Girls I'm on day 3 of 20mg steroids and I felt really down today for no particular reason - do you think it is the steroids?


----------



## petitpas

Tansey, I couldn't say. They can mess with your emotions but at the same time this whole process can be harrowing and the odd low days are completely normal :hugs:


----------



## hopeful23456

Tansey- I don't know if it would be the steroids either, maybe? But like pip said, could be just from going thru so much stuff too. Huge hugs!


----------



## beachlover1

Hi all

Tansey i would say it could well be the roids!! When i went on them, Prof Q said she warns partners that their Wives/GFs will/could be extremely emotional as the roids have that effect!

whether that quick i dont know...but i defo had bad down days and cried when someone stole my cheese and onion hula hoop crisps!!!! LOL

Good luck Filli.....fingers crossed for you. xx

Im now 15+ weeks...and all looking fine at the mo fingers crossed.

Hope all are well xxx


----------



## tansey

Thanks, it's really weird coz I feel weird! :wacko:
I'm not tired and I've been trying to be really positive and so I can't believe that I feel down/in a mood for no particular reason.
Going to test tomorrow - 10DPO coz I'm out with family for a drink in the evening so it would be nice to say I can't coz I'm pg!

It's so nice to see you ladies pregnant and doing so well!


----------



## petitpas

Aw, beach! Congratulations on second tri! :yipee: :yipee:


----------



## filipenko32

Thanks girls, :hug: 
Tansy yeah I agree with the girls, it will be a combo of all things but you could be extra hormonal cos your body is gearing up with that fertilised embryo!!:yipee: 
Beach I am soooo happy for you! :cloud9:


----------



## lexi374

Fantastic news beach!! :thumbup::happydance:


----------



## petitpas

Sending you some :dust: Tansey!


----------



## filipenko32

Pip can I just ask you, what was the longest time you waited to get af back after d and c?


----------



## petitpas

Fili, that's a difficult question to answer, especially since my first mc took three months to resolve. I think I was quite lucky in that I generally got af within 30-45 days.
I know of ladies who had to wait months and then had meds (provera, I think? not sure...) to bring on af. Both pregnancy loss and operations can be shocks to the system so I'm not surprised everything shuts down every so often.
Hopefully, your Clomid will kick start you nicely and you will get back to your normal rhythm :hugs:


----------



## Amber3

Congratulations Beach you must be so relieved!

Here just finished the first cycle of steroids. My period is starting and I have the worst PMS. Am just feeling so sad and hopeless. Don't think steroids will do it for me :cry:

Will be taking prednisolon for the next two cycles as well, then I can say I have tried it at least.

A


----------



## petitpas

Amber, I didn't fall pregnant my first month. Af's arrival is horrible but please don't give up hope :hugs:


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## tansey

I have AF today too Amber. I'm having a natural cycle and then back to my 5th IVF!


----------



## petitpas

:hug: to you, Tansey! I'll be crossing my fingers for you along with everyone else on here! Xxx


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## hopeful23456

Amber I didn't start prednisone until bfp as my clinic has has a lot of success with it helping for implantation issues.


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## Amber3

You are amazing! Your words cheered me up :flower:

:hugs:

Amber


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## leylak

hi ladies, I hope you are all doing fine :flower: 
You are a very knowledgable and lovely bunch so I wanted to share this.
I read somewhere that some women with active NK cells have hostile cells in the womb that prevent implantation and those cells also harm uterine lining which causes luteal phase spotting before AF. I have 2 days of spotting before AF for maybe more than 10 years. before dealing with fertility issues, I was happy with it because it was an early warning sign for me. Now I think this is related with my infertility. Only twice did I not get spotting before my period was due. First was the first month of trying vitamin b6, AF got me without any spotting at 11 DPO. Second was the very next month (with B6) when I got my BFP. I had v little beige spot which was probably implantation. I have been taking b6 again and this time my LP spotting was very little (although lasted for 48 hours again). Maybe b6 is helping :shrug:
Do any of you have this problem and what do you think about it?


----------



## tansey

I hav very bad spotting. sometimes from 7dpo but maily about 4 days b4 af. dudnt get any on bfp cycles. i hav endo though so it could be from that.


----------



## petitpas

Nope, no spotting for me before af. Have you had your progesterone checked? That could also be a cause for pre-af spotting.


----------



## leylak

I did not get prog levels checked so idk but progesterone pills never helped with spotting or LP length. also, the day I start spotting, I still have high BBT. last time, it was 36.8 C which is equal to my pregnancy BBT. :shrug:


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## petitpas

Interesting, leylak. I don't know :shrug:

Btw, when you say progesterone pills, I suppose you mean suppositories/pessaries? The oral pills are not supposed to be very effective.


----------



## leylak

petitpas said:


> Interesting, leylak. I don't know :shrug:
> 
> Btw, when you say progesterone pills, I suppose you mean suppositories/pessaries? The oral pills are not supposed to be very effective.

I took them orally, maybe that is why. They gave me dizziness only :wacko: 
The pills I took could be taken both orally or vaginally but I took them orally as my doc advised.


----------



## petitpas

It might be worth asking your doc for vaginal ones. Not the most fun thing in the world but they are slow release wheras oral progesterone is metabolised in the liver. Apparently, this can make them unreliable and cause side effects.

You'd have to start taking them from 2 or 3 dpo (not before as you need to make sure you have already ovulated).

In the UK (not sure where you are) the suppositories are called cyclogest and can be taken orally or anally (for instance if your cervix gets irritated).


----------



## hopeful23456

I used to spot mid cycle but it was from my uterine septum, after it was removed I didn't spot anymore.


----------



## leylak

Thank you ladies, it was very important to hear your experience!
Pip, I am in Turkey. The pills I used are "Progestane". I took them on clomid cycles, now I am only on thyroid meds and steroids.
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that my infertility and this menses pattern are related. I got pg at my 5th cycle, and I did not spot only on 4th and 5th cycles. This was more than one year ago. clomid, progesterone didn't help with spotting. I believe that if I fix this, I will fall pg. 
I realised that taking vit b6 until ovulation doesn't help with spotting but taking throughout the cycle does. Last cycle I took them every day and my spots were v v light. I am very hopeful for this cycle as I am continuing to take it. I don't know the mechanism but if I fall PG again, I will be sure it is b6.


----------



## petitpas

Leylak, I love your scientific approach adding one thing after another and figuring out what works best.

Let us know how you get on!


----------



## leylak

Haha Pip! my desire for a baby made me :loopy: :headspin::amartass:


----------



## petitpas

Haha, me too, Leylak!


----------



## Amber3

I was wondering if you are all on calcium supplement with the steroids? 
Also how long can I be on steroids. My doctor said that I should only do it for a few months because of the side effects but since I only have one functioning tube I figure that everything might take longer with me so to just try steroids for 3 months seem a bit short. Do you think I should stick to 3 months or is 4 months okay? Or do you think that if I do not get pregnant within 3 cycles it wont happen anyways? I hope you guys can give me some good advise.
Best wishes,
Amber (on second cycle with steroids)

PS About pre-menstrual spotting it is often times a problem with low progesterone. I am also taking progesterone 400 mg/day and it stops the spotting.


----------



## Amber3

infertility and menses-patterns/mucus patterns etc are totally related to infertility. If you are interested in this stuff you should look at this:

https://www.fertilitycare.net/Miscarriage.htm

I heard a really impressive and interesting talk online by Dr. Philip Boyle about some tough cases, but now I can´t find it but these cases here are also interesting.
Best wishes,
Amber


----------



## petitpas

Amber, I believe that my doctor lets you ttc with steroids for 6 cycles. That is because you only take the steroids for about ten days each cycle.

I asked my GP about calcium supplements but the ones they normally prescribe with steroids are not recommended in pregnancy. So try and get in lots of dairy products if you can...


----------



## hopeful23456

amber - i only did steroids once with bfp (didn't do when ttc). i wasn't on extra calcium.


----------



## Bumpblues82

Hi I really need some advice especially from those of you in the uk... I have a son who is almost 4 but we have been trying for almost 3 years and in that time I have had 6 losses all at different times up to 14 weeks (with that one they weren't exactly sure on dates) I have had every test my local health care offers and no luck I have been doing reading on the nk cell testing and I really want to try and see if this is the answer I'm looking for I study biological science at uni so I know about the teory behind it but I'm desp to find some where in the uk that will test me on the nhs as we really can't afford the private clinics plz help I'm desperate xx


----------



## hopeful23456

Could you find a place that would give you a prescription for the meds regardless of test results? I was on lovenox (heparin) prednisone and progesterone and my clinic has just had good luck with those meds and recurrent early mcs, may be more strict in the UK though...


----------



## lexi374

Bumpblues82 said:


> Hi I really need some advice especially from those of you in the uk... I have a son who is almost 4 but we have been trying for almost 3 years and in that time I have had 6 losses all at different times up to 14 weeks (with that one they weren't exactly sure on dates) I have had every test my local health care offers and no luck I have been doing reading on the nk cell testing and I really want to try and see if this is the answer I'm looking for I study biological science at uni so I know about the teory behind it but I'm desp to find some where in the uk that will test me on the nhs as we really can't afford the private clinics plz help I'm desperate xx

Hi and sorry for your losses. I really dont think anyone will test for that on the nhs.... i saw professor Quenby at coventry university hospital for the test and she charges £260 which is quite a bit cheaper than some private clinics. :hugs:


----------



## petitpas

Bumpblues, Mr Hassan Shehata in Epsom does NHS and I think Professor Siobhan Quenby (Coventry?), too.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Edit: just seen the above on Quenby. I wasn't aware she charges. But I do have a friend who went to see Mr S on the NHS for free.


----------



## leylak

Amber3 said:


> infertility and menses-patterns/mucus patterns etc are totally related to infertility. If you are interested in this stuff you should look at this:
> 
> https://www.fertilitycare.net/Miscarriage.htm
> 
> I heard a really impressive and interesting talk online by Dr. Philip Boyle about some tough cases, but now I can´t find it but these cases here are also interesting.
> Best wishes,
> Amber

thank you amber, I had seen that page before but I couldn't quite understand it. It looks like it is promoting a treatment I can't get here. 

What do you think about having a 14 day luteal phase with 2 days of spotting and having a 10 day luteal phase without spotting? which one is low progesterone? I conceived following the latter but couldn't conceive with the first one (on clomid and prog). Spotting is not a simple case, I think.


----------



## petitpas

Too right it isn't an easy case!

I tend to gave a short luteal phase but I have a good temp rise after ovulation and no spotting. I was on progesterone as a safety measure but I don't think I needed it.
To have a better idea of what is going I think it makes sense to try and temp and to get a blood test at 7dpo.
There are other causes for spotting than progesterone, too. Endometriosis, possibly also adenomyosis (?)... I believe fibroids can mess with your cycle, too...


----------



## Bumpblues82

Thanks I'll let u know x


----------



## Amber3

Where do you live? 
With fertilitycare (The link I send you) they specialize in looking at more than your spotting. All your symptoms such as your mucus, when, how it looks etc, plus blood tests and spotting and cycle length etc. All these things they look at and often times they can detect an underlying hormonal deficiency when you look at all these things. Personally I am not a specialist but I would certainly recommend fertilitycare. They have a high rate of success with people with infertility and/or recurrent miscarriages, higher than IUI or IVF too plus a whole different view of how to work with the body to optimize its health etc.
Best wishes,
Amber


----------



## tansey

Hi Ladies :wave:

I am 10DPO and hoping that this natural cycle worked but if not I have IVF #5 appointment on Wednesday when I am 14DPO - so hope to start straight away. I will be taking steroids from embryo transfer as per Prof Q instructions.


----------



## leylak

Good luck tansey!
Amber,
Sorry for the late reply. I live in Turkey. Thank you very much.


----------



## lexi374

Ladies im back on the steroids and this pals rollercoaster, after nose diving the last few days temp went up just a tiny bit this morning, nothing major. I ummed and ahhed over doing a test, anyway long story short i got my bfp. 11dpo.

Anyway you think id be happy but i was sucking up the tears on the way to work, im just so stressed about this whole thing! Plus i have no symptoms except cramping! No sore boobs at all! And im sure im destined for another c/p, mc! 

Ive started steroids, went to doc to get more progesterone and now shes told me shes referring me to professor quenby in coventry to be under her care as my local hospitals wont take me on under her protocol! So ill have to drive 70 miles for a scan when i have a hospital on my doorstep! Tbh i think she just wants rid of me! :growlmad:

I asked if i could have bloods done after the last chemical and she said no! Needs to be asked for by consultants not gps, what a load of bullshit! I need to know things are going the right way or i have to stop meds. So looks like ill be doing a few tests over the next couple of weeks and hoping the lines get darker! 

Hope everyone else is ok?? :hugs: :flower:


----------



## hopeful23456

lexi - did you join the PAL after recurring losses thread? I thought you did before? congrats on the BFP! 
https://www.babyandbump.com/pregnancy-after-loss/822106-pal-after-recurrent-losses-come-join-us.html


----------



## petitpas

Lexi, congrats on the bfp!
Unfortunately, GPs often don't know about fertility issues and much less about RPL. It's great that you are being referred to Prof Quenby! I'm just wondering whether you can have your scans done at your local early pregnancy unit? It is definitely worth calling them directly (via your hospital's switchboard) and discussing it with them. Prof Quenby can still oversee your care, advise and prescribe but on a less frequent basis. She is great to have on your team!


----------



## lexi374

Hopeful thank you, no i didnt join although i lurk sometimes! I didnt want to join until i knew i actually had something in there iykwim. :hugs:

Pip thanks yes im delighted to be under her care! I emailed her yest to explain what was happening, im hoping she will sort out me having regular scan at my local hospital it seems crazy otherwise! My gp is particularly obstructive about it all! :hugs:

You guys are flying through now!! i Hope you are both keeping well? :hugs:


----------



## tansey

Lexy congrats - i really hope this is it for you & that Prof Q can help :hugs:


----------



## Bumpblues82

Hi everyone
I went to see my gp and he said that he would have to consult an out of area referral board and discuss with them if I should be reffered out of my area as we live in teesside. He also said to take in allbthe info I found on the tests but not to get my hopes up as they bare notorious for saying no :( I have emailed both drs you mentioned and have been told by both inwould need a referral :/ but the tests are alot cheaper than I first read if they do them privately but still a little out of reach as we really can't afford them x


----------



## lexi374

Prof q saw me without a referral as my gp was being difficult! She asked for my nhs num and looked up info there i think, although id already emailed brief history. Good luck x


----------



## Bumpblues82

Hi Lexi thanks for the tip could u send me any contact details u have for dr q ? My email is [email protected] xx


----------



## lexi374

Bumpblues82 said:


> Hi Lexi thanks for the tip could u send me any contact details u have for dr q ? My email is [email protected] xx

Ive PMd you, let us know how you get on. :hugs: x


----------



## Bumpblues82

Hi I emailed dr q and she sent me the info so gonna buy some strips for the fertility monitor and give it a go in june as I have my uni exams next month x thanks so much Lexi xx


----------



## Bumpblues82

Petitpas I hope I'm as lucky as u and get my rainbow from all this xx


----------



## lexi374

No probs keep in touch. Do you temp? If not you should try it. :hugs: x


----------



## Bumpblues82

No I havnt tried that I have a fertility monitor but I'm quite regular and am very lucky to be able to get pregnant very easily lol I've done opks before tho x


----------



## gbnf

hi all im new here and would very much appreciate any advice

My journey i am currently having my 10th miscarriage and have been to st marys and seen raj rai and prof regan cut a long story short

Septum removed nov 2011 and bloods confirmed raised teg advised aspirin 150mg from bfp tried this time and failed again after seeing a h.beat on scan my lil angels seem to stop growing around six , seven wks 

I was wondering if anybody else has a similiar experience with repeated missed m.carriages after seeing h.beat

? immune related as to why i cant carry I have no probs in getting pregnant 

Any advice is very much appreciated especially as im feeling very low and head is spinning from trying to find some answers

xxxx


----------



## gbnf

hi 

firstly sorry to hear of your mmc i am currently new here and going through my 10th mmc i was just wondering if your mmc were after a h.beat like mine ( hope you dont mind m asking?) im waiting to see doc regarding immune issues in may 

My head is spinning and driving meself crazy looking for answer

please help if you can

many thanks 

xxx


----------



## hopeful23456

My mc were all early before heartbeats, but, my clinic has had success with treating rpl with lovenox (heparin) and prednisone in first tri, I don't have a blood clotting disorder or immune issues and this seemed to work for me. Not sure if drs in uk would just prescribe this though? Sorry for your losses, it sucks and is totally heartbreaking.

Im online friends with girls on lovenox or were on lovenox. they all had several mcs get to heartbeat stage before trying lovenox (on babycenter site). Some are in second tri and some have a baby now, none of these girls had kids before.


----------



## petitpas

Bumpy, don't lose heart! Some of us are lucky (not counting the losses, obviously) in that we find our cure relatively quickly, others have to go through a few more steps before they get the right tests and treatment. It took me two years and a lot of pushing to get here and I already had all the thrombophilia testing in 2008!
The good news is that eventually most of us succeed. I have also been very lucky that apart from normal little things such as nausea I have had a very uncomplicated pregnancy. So yes, all is going well here and ducky is coming out in just one month! :shock:

Gb, I say the same to you. I can imagine that with this being your tenth loss you feel like things are all over but you are on the right track as I see you are waiting for your immune appointment. Is that with Mr S on the NHS?

My babies generally died past the heartbeat stage, too :hugs:

I had my fifth pregnancy tested and it came back as a normal genetically healthy boy. I had been on progesterone, aspirin, heparin, extra folic acid - the lot. For most people, any one of these ingredients can help but for me it just wasn't enough and I needed the steroids to make it this far. Maybe this is the case for you, too? I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you so please keep us updated on how your appointment goes and how you progress!


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## Bumpblues82

Hi guys just had a lovely email from dr q she said basically to email her when I ovulate and she will see me so my question now is I live 177 miles from her and I need to know how long of a time frame have I got to get to her from where I am I'm lucky to have a mother n law who will take me in the car but do u have to go the day you ovulate or do you have a day or so to get there x


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## Bumpblues82

And thanks petitpas I will do I'm not a believer in god or religious in any way but I'm seriously praying this my answer xx


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## gbnf

hi thanks for the advice im going to see dr.s prof regan said i didnt need heparin but all the research i have read states aspirin alone had no benefits also seen r.rai at an appt and suggested everything next bfp steroid, aspirin heparin etc but prof reg said no she believed it was the septum and raised teg i guess not or i wudnt be in the same position again

I have had genetics done on my angels and all normal karatyping all nhs tests neg and only raised teg at st marys so i guess steroids maybe the answer

I live in the north east england o dr s is going to be alot of ttravelling but to be honest i would go the moon if thats what it takes

thanks for replying as you can imagine my head is bursting

wishes everyone good luck and health for the future xxx


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## gbnf

petitias 

im going private to see mr s 21st may 

xx


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## petitpas

Bumpy, I'm sure that if you email her back asking how many days past ovulation she would expect to see you (so you know how much notice you have to make travel arrangements) that she can give you more details. In any case, I don't suppose you will be able to confirm ovulation until a couple of days after with temps or does she want you to contact her once you get a positive opk?

GB, I read some research supporting aspirin alone and for one of my friends on here, Rabbitchild, that was the answer. She now has a little girl :cloud9: As far as I know, adding heparin is most useful if you have antiphospholipid syndrome and in clot prevention if you have a thrombophilia, especially if you carry two genes.

Do you mind me asking whether your last loss was also tested? Was that the first pregnancy on aspirin?
I always try to bear in mind that even if we get the treatment spot on there is always a chance that a pregnancy just isn't viable. With an estimated 1 in 4 (or 5 depending on which statistics you believe) we are bound to have the odd one that was never destined to be :nope:

After so many losses I don't blame you for covering your bases, though. I, too, moved from St Mary's to Mr S after exhausting all their tools (except exploratory surgery). I think they did a good job in general but unfortunately I needed that something extra that they couldn't give me. Hopefully, once Prof Q's trial with steroids is complete (and proves the treatment works fxfxfxfx) St Mary's will have the go-ahead to add the treatment to their toolbox.

Since you are travelling so far, I hope you can keep the visits to London to a minimum? I went privately and it took two visits to get my prescription. At the first appointment we went through my history and all the tests I already had. Mr S suggested what new tests to have (e.g. immune tests and for me also thyroid function) and I gave blood right away. Two weeks later we went back, were given my diagnosis and a prescription for steroids. 
I was lucky because my GP was happy to continue prescribing the steroids to me based on Mr S's instructions (so I got them for free :happydance:).
Unless you need the intralipids I suppose you might be able to have your scans locally at your early pregnancy unit? Is this something St Mary's already set up for you?


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## hopeful23456

Gb- I had a large septum removed too, had 2 mc before and 2 mc after removal. So glad it's out!


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## Bumpblues82

Well my hubby's mum has offered to drive me down at short notice and I think just a positive ovulation test is all she needs I'm gonna use the fertility monitor and but tests for the days it says I'm likely to ovulate x


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## Hope39

Bumpy - once you have ovulated and email prof Q, she will email u back with a date 7-10 days later so you will have plenty time to arrange transport

Good luck x


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## gbnf

mee too thank god its gone feels like another hudrdle over xxx


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## gbnf

Firstly just wanted to send a heartfelt thanks for reading my post and taking an interest:hugs:

Petitas, this is my first missed m/c since having my septum removed in nov 2011 ( hopeful so pleased it has gone to) in which i tried 150mg aspirin from bfp. betas were not rising properley so maybe this one was just destined to fail from the beginning also during scan the tech said endo looked thinner than she would have thought it should at 11mm. Never had probs with betas in previous.

Previous history: some of my previous lossess ( many d n c's and 2 m/management one didnt work retained tissue so d n c any way) i have tried 75mg aspirin with one i tried cyclogest, aspirin and heparin and still lost lil one at 6.5 wks after h.beat seen 5 of my lossess have been to cytogenetics and have all been karaotype normal and have been boys and girls so dont think chromosones or sex is the problem. I have always been a week behind in all my scans after reading so much wonder if this could be due to a lp defect what are your thoughts? also periods were all over till i had my last d n c about 1 year ago and seem to have regulated to 28 days since then still measured behind on this scan, b.friend nothing wrong with him as he has a girl from previous reationship, also this is my 3rd loss with him others were with my divorced husband uggh lol 

My last loss will not be going to cytogenetics due to the horrendous time i had with the medical management and the way i was treat at the local hopsital sent home to pass after being in hospital 2 days said i was to high risk for d nc due to previous surgery and consultant told me genetics did not matter as it wasnt a baby :devil i told her it was my baby regardless to what they medically class it as i was furious im a h.care professional my self and wouldnt treat an animal like i was treated, thats that about that though because the thread will end up like my dissertation for uni lol as i am still angry abouth the way i was treat and spoke too!( not my usual hospital as sue in epac there is amazing and has looked after me perfectly with them all so early scans will not be a problem in the future also consultant will prescribed anything anyone suggests so thats good.

I went to st marys 6 times and once seen r rai who said i needed the whole works including steroids but at the last appointment i seen prof regan who dismissed it and said rubbish just a slightly raised teg so aspirin only and nothing wrong with antiphoslipids so need for clexane she was very matter afact about me and said the septum was the prob and me blood and to go away and get pregnant so thats what i did and here i am again :cry: maybe if i had gone with r.rai protocol this may not be the case feeling a little fustrated at the min.

My appointment is the 21st may to see mr s and it is about a 600 mile round trip so i hope i dont have to go to many times but saying that i would go to the moon and back at the min if thats what it takes.

sorry this post is huge but as you can imagine i have a long history

Is it possible to be immune issues even though the lil ones are implanting and getting to the same stage each time or more like a clotting prob?

There is a family history on my dads side of the family for thrombosis and strokes, dvts, raynauds etc no history of m/c my sister has 4 children no probs i love them to bits but feels unfair at times when i only want 1 she however had to have her thyroid removed after having my niece it became overactive while she was pregnant. i know im deffo not under active as i am only a size 6 and way to much energy and tsh has been normal when tested previously many blood tests done.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this you ladies have given me some hope and give me the strength to go on best wishes to everyone xxxx


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## petitpas

Hi Gb, just seen your PM and have hurried over here...

It really sounds like you have been around the mill :hugs:

You know, I have a clotting issue, Factor V Leiden and a history of DVT and pulmonary emboli. Everyone kept telling me that clotting was my problem but I was on heparin and aspirin for several of my losses, including the last which tested normally (measured on target and alive until sudden death at 8.5 weeks). It is entirely possible that you have a clotting AND an immune problem.

To be honest, your last loss might have been chromosomal and aspirin is the answer but at this point and with so many ops under your belt I would think that you should go ahead, see Mr S, have your nk cells tested and then push for everything: progesterone, aspirin, heparin, steroids, vitamin D, extra folic acid, the lot.
The other route you have open to you is to try for a hysteroscopy to see whether the D&Cs have caused any problems although if I understand it correctly you have only had one (or none?) since the septum removal so that would probably be unnecessary.

The 11th of May is not far off so stay strong and get ready for your trip! Do you have anything else planned while you are in London? Something nice to look forward to?


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## gbnf

hi petitas 

thanks for the reply 

I dont think a hysteroscopy would be beneficial as i had 1 in november when septum removed and my discharge letter said cavity much improved 

thanks to the hospital i will never know if my last loss was normal :growlmad:

i have been to my own g.p who has reffered me to mr s as a nhs patient and has booked a 2nd appt at epsom and st heliers for june i was very suprised as there was appointments for the 11th may which is sooner than my private one so im gonna take that appt letter with me and hopefully will be able to have me bloods done as a nhs patient which will save me lots of pennies if not im more than happy to pay i would give me last penny for a take home baby

no plans for london just booked hotel today going to travel on the sunday and stay over appointment on the monday and then drive it makes the travelling a little easier

keep in touch and i will let you know my results asap when i get them

xxxx


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## petitpas

Gb, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Mr S can work his miracle touch with you as he did with me :hugs:


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## Bumpblues82

Have any of u had children before your losses and what gestations have u all lost? Sorry I'm just hoping that some one has a similar story to mine and has had sucsess since I'm desperately clutching at straws :/ x


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## petitpas

Hi bump, since problems with the immune system are acquired and not hereditary it is perfectly possible to have children first and then encounter issues. Equally, some hereditary issues become worse with age so the fact that you have had one child successfully does not mean you don't have a problem that needs treating. In fact, with five losses under your belt (even if they were before and after your child) you most probably do have something wrong with you.
Do you mind me asking whether you have had any testing yet?

In answer to your question, I personally have no children yet and my losses all occured in first tri from 6.5-11.5 weeks although the critical week I couldn't get past seems to be week 8.


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## Bumpblues82

I need to update my profile lol I've had 6 losses in 3 yeards and all between 5 and 14 weeks I have one son who is 3 almost 4 and had no problems with him at all I'm currently waiting to ov so I can get an app with prof q in Coventry and I have had every test they offer on the nhs in my area x after the test wit
H prog q I have a list of tests that can be done and I'm gonna ask my specialist to tick off the ones I have had and if there's any remaining get them done too x


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## lexi374

Hi bump i dont have any children yet, none of my losses have developed past 6ish weeks, although they went further because they were 'missed.' We saw heartbeat once but it was already a week behind dates.

Afm saw prof q this evening, she gave me another prescription and did a quick tv scan im 5 and a bit/half weeks, sac is in the right place with a yolk and she said placenta was developing nicely. She seemed pleased with what she saw although we have still a long way to go. Im seeing her again in 2 weeks x


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## Bumpblues82

If I get diagnosed with this will I have to travel to see her all the time or wil my local hosp do the tests and prescriptions?


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## Bumpblues82

By tests I meant scans lol x and one more other thing I wanted to ask if I started the steroids how long can I be on them before conceiving is there a time limit to taking them? Like if I took em for so many months before??


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## lexi374

Im seeing her for the time being and getting prescriptions from her as my gp was being a total pain the a hole!! You may have more luck with yours though!!

I didnt start steroids until i got bfp and then will wean off from 10 weeks so will be off them by 12 weeks. :hugs:


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## petitpas

Aw, lexi, that's lovely news :cloud9:

I am keeping everything crossed for your precious little cargo fxfxfxfx

Bumpy, my GP was happy to prescribe me steroids as per my (private) specialist's instructions. As lexi said, it depends on the GP.


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## filipenko32

Pip, random question!! when did you get sore boobs with this pregnancy? I can't remember whether you said the steroids affected that or not. Today I am on a new obsession: Why haven't I got boob pain at 8dpo? :haha: xx

Edit: Lexi, you've made my day!! Fantastic news :cloud9: sounds like everything is progressing well, will keep everything crossed for you, will be stalking! Are you going to set up a journal?

Edit again: lexi did your boobs start hurting early on?


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## lexi374

filipenko32 said:


> Pip, random question!! when did you get sore boobs with this pregnancy? I can't remember whether you said the steroids affected that or not. Today I am on a new obsession: Why haven't I got boob pain at 8dpo? :haha: xx
> 
> Edit: Lexi, you've made my day!! Fantastic news :cloud9: sounds like everything is progressing well, will keep everything crossed for you, will be stalking! Are you going to set up a journal?
> 
> Edit again: lexi did your boobs start hurting early on?

Ha lol im stressing about that as we speak! :dohh:

My boobs didnt hurt at all when i got bfp and i was freaking out, i didnt feel anything until a week after i got a bfp and then they only feel a little tender on the outsides and only if i poke them!! (which i do alot)
It seems to come and go alot as well and at the moment they dont feel tender at all so im stressing aout that, i also feel a little crmpy since yest and im stressing about that too, it just never stops does it?!?

The only symptoms ive really got is serious constipation, never been this bad before, and huger and insomnia but they could be steroid related too.

Not sure bout a journal keep thinking bout it....

Good luck hope this is your month! :thumbup: xx


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## lexi374

Thanks pip1:hugs: xx


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## petitpas

I can't be absolutely sure without reading back but I seem to remember that my bbs were slightly less sore. Still felt pregnant but chalked the lessening up to them having gone through 'the change' too many times. Or the steroids.

Lexi, if you are constipated, that can make you extra crampy. Hunger and insomnia are typical steroid symptoms, too.
Many women on steroids find that their pregnancy symptoms are diminished. In fact, sometimes severe nausea and sickness in pregnancy is treated with steroids!

The only thing I can think of in terms of helping your sleeping is to take the steroids as early as possible in the day.

Remember, cramping is a-ok if it comes without bleeding! :hugs:


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## lexi374

Yeah i take them first thing, i think the waking up at 5 am is a normal pregnancy thing for me though. :shrug: and then im starving so have little chance of getting back to sleep! 

Im hoping the cramps could be constipation related... and i seem to have an awful lot of wind! :blush: so maybe that as well!? :hugs:


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## filipenko32

Lexi and Pip I COMPLETELY forgot about the roids lessening pregnancy symptoms!! :dohh:


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## Bumpblues82

Thanks my gp is lovely so I think he will want to help x


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## Bumpblues82

This is killing me knowing ov is comming up and not ttc :/ it's gonna be at least 8 weeks before we can try again after tests n stuff driving me mad I'm so impatient lol


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## petitpas

Bump, it is horrible because your body says oooooh, look at my pretty eggy, come fill me! But it is so worth waiting for the tests and results :hugs:


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## Bumpblues82

Ok so did a clear blue ov test using my fertility monitor and no line just control line and it hasn't budged up the gage thing at the side to say I'm even close.. But I did two tesco ones one this morning and one at about two Nd they are almost positive... :/


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## tansey

Ladies I started the steroids today - don't get too excited for me as I'm not pregnant YET but I am PUPO (pregnant until proven otherwise) as I had an IVF transfer today. My embryos are slow growers but growing is good! :)


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## petitpas

Oooh, Tansey, how exciting! :happydance:
I hope the roids help those little uns along by preparing the most welcoming home possible for them :cloud9:


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## lexi374

Wow good luck tansey, am keeping my fx for you! :hugs: x


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## Bumpblues82

Ok so I oved on the 4th On cd 14 so emailed prof q won't prob hear back with app time and date till tues on wards cause of bank hol. I'll be cd 18 by then does it matter??


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## lexi374

That will be ok she will give you an appointment 7-10 dpo :hugs:


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## tansey

Prof Q is a workaholic and I wouldn't be surprised if you heard back before Tues - I think she emailed me on a Sunday evening. But as Lexi said it doesn't matter as you can see her from 7-10dpo.


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## Bumpblues82

im going on friday the 11th! is it wierd that im excited? and my specialist here said that if i need them he will be happy to perscribe my meds wil a reccomendation from dr q!
for those of you that have had the test did it hurt?


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## lexi374

Thats great news! :thumbup:

Im not going to lie it hurts a little but it should be over quick, take some pain killers before you go in. Basically as she touches the uterus wall it goes into spasm so you will have a little cramping and maybe for an hour after, i had a fairly long drive home and was absolutely fine by the time i got in. Maybe wear a liner incase you spot too. Good luck :hugs: x


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## Bumpblues82

Thanks x I can't actually wait it's like Xmas xx


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## Amber3

I haven´t been here for a while but I hope everyone is doing well.
Filipenko, congratulations on your pregnancy. Great news.:happydance:

I also have good news in case it will be of interest to anyone I just wanted to say that the steroids seem to have helped my cycle look much better. I used to have mid-cycle spotting from ovulation onwards but the last two cycles it has not been there at all. I am however on my third and I guess my last cycle now with prednisolone. Although I only take 5 mg aday I guess it is not so healthy, right?
By the way, I am also really happy that prednisolon has helped me get more fat. Some days I even look a bit pregnant;) I have been underweight so gaining is very good for my fertility chances I think :winkwink:

How long, were you told that you could try to be on steroids?

Amber


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## Bumpblues82

Hi guys so I had my appointment today with dr Q and she was lovely.. I finally feel like I have some answers at last!! I had the biopsy and she's told me to go ahead and try again ASAP and she's gonna get me heparin progesterone and the steroids as soon as I email her with a pos test !!! Super excited I know I have a long way to go and actually have the baby but I smiled the whole way home it's finally nice for some one to care as much as she does x


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## Bumpblues82

P.s Lexi u were right crampy and sharp scratches :/


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## lexi374

Ah at least its done now hopefully you will have some answers, is she giving you the heparin because you tested positive for a clotting disorder or is she just throwing everything at you just incase? :hugs:


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## filipenko32

Good news bumpblue! :yipee:


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## petitpas

Great news all round then! :happydance:

Amber, I was told I could try for six cycles on 25mg. This was only from ovulation, though, so in case of a negative I would only take the pills for ten days each cycle.


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## Amber3

Petitpas

Thank you so much, that is good to know. I take it from cd 10 so also not constantly and only 5 mg. I just mailed with my irish doctor and he said I could try it a few more months because of its positive effects:) So I am content with that. He thought that maybe my spotting was due to adrenal fatique and prednisolon also is a good medicine for that. :) 

Has any of you heard of Adrenal fatique in connection with infertility and prednisolon use???

Thanks again,
Amber


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## petitpas

Nope, sorry, not heard of it :nope:
Can you remind me whether you are on progesterone, too? Although I've probably asked you that before as that always comes first to my mind when I hear spotting.
Also, have you ever tried soy to help your ovulation? It wasn't for me but a lot of ladies have had success with it.


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## Tasha

I just read the whole thread, it has given me lots of hope and also lots of giggles. Lots of you were really hungry for a while there :haha:

For those of you that dont know me this is my history (feel free to skip :haha:)


Spoiler
Pregnancy number one: Problem free pregnancy until thiry-odd weeks, when pre-eclampsia developed. Healthy baby delivered at 36 weeks. 

Pregnancy number two: pre-eclampsia started at twenty-four weeks, put on beta blockers which controlled it. Healthy baby delivered at 37 weeks.

Pregnancy three: Early onset IUGR suspect at 24 weeks. Waters broke at 28+6. Failed induction due to infection at 29+2. Honey was stillborn at 36+6 due to eight weeks of no waters compromising her placenta,it was 50% too small, 50% clots and a 10% abruption.

Pregnancy four: Factor V Leiden is discovered. Put on 75mg aspirin and 40mg clexane. Pre-eclampsia developed at 32 weeks. Delivered at 39 weeks. Baby in distress. Emergency c-section. Placenta was not in a good state.

Pregnancy five to ten: early miscarriages no medication

Pregnancy eleven: Aspirin, clexane and progesterone, early miscarriage.

Pregnancy twelve: Aspirin, clexane and progesterone under Professor Brosens at the RMU Queen Charlotte's. Graduate from RMU and am cared for by the prematurity clinic (due to waters breaking at 28 weeks) and obstetric medicine. Obstetric medicine take me off all meds at 16 weeks claiming there is new research showing there is no need. By 20 weeks baby is under the 3rd centile, no one seems bothered (except me ), private scan twelve days later shows baby is on the first centile and there is brain sparing, no one really cares. Riley Rae was stillborn at 24+3 weighing a really tiny 340 grams. Placenta was 60% clots and a 10% abruption. Severe early onset of IUGR.

Pregnancy thirteen: June 2011 early miscarriage no meds

Pregnancy fourteen: 150mg aspirin and 40 clexane early miscarriage 2nd December 2011

Pregnancy fifthteen: 150mg aspirin and 40 clexane early twin miscarriage 28th Jan 2012

Pregnancy sixteen: 150 mg aspirin and 50 clexane early miscarriage 13th May 2012

So I emailed Professor Brosens this week and he and Professor Q want to see me up at Coventry for the biopsy. I really want this to be my answer. Feeling less stressed about the procedure now I know what to expect from some of you girls but still have a while to wait as need to have AF and then ovulate, then they will do the biopsy :wacko:


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## lexi374

Good luck tasha i hope they have the answer for you! :hugs: xxx


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## petitpas

Tasha, you truly deserve a happy ending :hugs:

Keep us updated and I will put you in the first post once we know what the plan is :happydance:


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## Amber3

I am on progesterone (Cyclogest 400 mg) from 3 days after ovulation and then for ten days. After being on it one or two days it usually would stop the mid-cycle spotting too and as long as I am on it the spotting does not return. So I definately need cyclogest. As for ovulation I do ovulate on my own but anyway I am taking Femara (just a low dose). So all in all my cycle looks good and with these medicines my hormones look optimal. But still no pregnancy... so that is why I am now trying steroids. I have endometriosis. I also read about Maxi-flavone which sounds interesting. So my plan is two more months of prednisolone. And then I will go back to propolis and maybe try maxi-flavone. And maybe I will have surgery.
But we will see, hopefully prednisolon will still do the trick, right.
Best wishes,
A


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## petitpas

Amber, you really are working out the details :thumbup:
I'm glad you are on the femara as I was wondering about your ovulation. I read that the lack of progesterone in the luteal phase can be a symptom of a weak ovulation (the follicle doesn't grow right or pop right in order to release enough progesterone). By helping out your ovulation AND taking progesterone you will hopefully be fixing that issue :thumbup:


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## Bumpblues82

She is just throwing it all in just incase lol is the heparin injected? And Ill be on progesterone till I'm 18 weeks and she will budge my nk test forward if I fall preg this month she said basically to go home and start trying ASAP I finally feel like I have some answers lol after yous had yours was the perfiod after shorter or lighter? My first one last month was first after mc and was really heavy n sore but this month hardly Ny pain and alot lighter and shorter I just can't wait till it's completely gone so I can start opk tests and get trying lol I fall preg really easy so I hope I get preg this month! X oh and sorry I hvant been on I've been sitting my exams at uni so been super busy x


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## petitpas

Ooh bump, good luck with your exams!

Yes, the heparin is injected. It is scary at first but try not to let anyone else do it, you have much more control if you do it yourself. The liquid can sting if you push the plunger in too quickly so I hate letting others do it.
Let me know if you have any questions about the technique. Done properly it shouldn't hurt and within a week you'll be a pro :thumbup: not worrying about it at all.
I'm not kidding, I used to be a true needle phobe and the butt of many a joke because of it.


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## Bumpblues82

im not worried about the needles they dont bother me its the fact i actually hae to do it to myself lol 
can anyone remember what prof Q said about the biopsy being good for trying again im sure she said that it was good to get preg the first month after but couldnt remember why lol??


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## Tasha

I know when Professor B was asking me to do a biopsy at Queen Charlotte's (this was for different research though) he told me that the chances of a succesful pregnancy in the first cycle after the biopsy were really high :thumbup:


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## petitpas

Bumpy, trust me, you will want to do these yourself. If you inject too fast it can have a nasty aftersting :growlmad: I also test the area first and go for a nice numb spot :D


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## lexi374

She said something like its known as scratch therapy and may increase your chances. I think my next period after was normal. :hugs:


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## Bumpblues82

Ok cool ty x


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## Bumpblues82

well prof Q said that im really fertile anyway lol as i get preg really quickly like 1-2 months of trying each time.. so i have everything crossed that i get prg this month im soo excited lol how long did it take u all to get preg after and knowing u had some sort of help did it help ease the nervs of early preg?


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## petitpas

Bump, I have to admit that I stuck my head in the sand for the first few weeks of my pregnancy. I still came on here, chatted to everyone but only talked about MY pregnancy on scan days. I never even told anyone when a scan was coming up as I couldn't bear all the well-wishes, especially the 'I'm sure you'll be ok' ones.
During my critical week I locked myself away from the world (I was planning on taking a week off work but ended up being made redundant). I only calmed down a bit when I passed the 9 week mark and ducky was still alive but I didn't announce any scans until well into third tri. It did help, though, that I was on a new treatment plan! As the weeks went by and I realised I wasn't having a chemical, I had a heartbeat and was not experiencing an early (chromosomal?) loss I put more and more of my trust in my doctor and the steroids. DH was so confident the steroids would work, he was my rock.

This was my way of coping but everyone has their own. I think a lot of people prefer the encouragement and support in the run-up to a scan, for me it felt like pressure to perform.

However you decide to run things, I hope you take solace in the fact that the steroids do seem to make a difference where nothing else did before! There are many many miracle steroid babies out there...


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## Bumpblues82

thanks hun i think when the time comes ill just see how i feel... my hubby wasnt at the appointment as he had to work and doesnt really get the vibe thhat i got from dr q as i felt se reassured and positive afterwards i grinned all the way home!! lets hope baby making works this month and i get my sticky raibow xx


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## jackie132

Hi,

I have posted before about my story. 

Numerous losses 4-5 weeks, then no pregnancy for a year, followed by ivf and finding my husbands sperm was malformed and low. I also have thyroid problems. Now had ivf ( donor sperm) and Immune treatment - steroids, clexane, intralipids and high dose folic acid.

I'm now 20 weeks pregnant and i have managed to get rid of the steroids, but I am wondering if I should continue with the intralipids. It's 200 pounds each time, and a small price to pay for our baby. Could you please give opinions on the use of intralipids in the second trimester? Thank you,


X


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## leylak

hi jackie,
I don't know about intralipids but can I ask you what specific thyroid problems do you have? I have hashimoto's.


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## jackie132

The docs have never said...just that I have hypothyroidism! X


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## Amber3

A question for those of you with thyroid problems;

I had 4 blood tests done over some months. One showed a tsh over 3, one 2,6, one 2,1 and one 1,8 

With 5 years of infertility and a few biochemical pregnancies would you say that these numbers are so high that I should try and talk to an endocrinologist about getting medication (in order to help conception).
I hope you can give me an advise,
Amber


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## Amber3

Dear Jackie,
On yahoo there is a group for reproductive immunolgy and a lot of women who goes to the best specialists there are. They know a lot in there about everything to do with immunology intralipid etc
Amber


----------



## Tasha

I think they like them to be below 2 otherwise it will affect conception hun, or so I have read. I think at your stage, anything is worth a shot as it may just be the answer :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Amber mine were very similar to yours and I get pregnant within 2 months of trying each time. For my last pregnancy tho the doc put me on 50 mmg of thyroxine because he is a mc specialist and as Tasha said they want it under 2. Never affected my chances of conception previous to that tho.


----------



## Amber3

Thanx guys...


----------



## Bumpblues82

Hi I have an under active thyroid and have been on thyroxine for just over a year and in that time still miscarried 3 times with my thyroid levels being perfect for preg the best option is to get ur gp to refer you o a specialist I'm lucky here I have a specialist who deals with obstetrics and endocrinology, I actually believed that was my answer to the miscarraiges but I was wrong at it's worst my levels were 11.7 my doc told me the ideal level for your thyroid is between 2 and 4 when preg and below 10 normally x


----------



## Bumpblues82

Question- how long did it take u after ur biopsies to conceive?? Xx


----------



## lexi374

4 months, then that was a chemical, next month no luck, then month after this pregnancy. :hugs:


----------



## Bumpblues82

hi girls i have a huge favour to ask of u all!!
i contacted my local radio station regarding the trouble i have had having a baby and the tests that i have found that may help alot of women and how they should be more readily available on the nhs... anyway they got back to me and are going to make a story out of it and it would be great if you coula all go on my fb page about it and like the page and comment.. ty xxxx
heres the link 
https://www.facebook.com/TESTSNK


----------



## Hope39

Hi Bump

I've liked your facebook page Hun but can I make a little suggestion....

B&B girls will find the link from this thread but If someone was on facebook searching for recurrent miscarriages they wouldn't find it as you have spelt recurrent wrong

I don't want to be picky but I agree people need to be made aware o this testing

Xx


----------



## petitpas

Bump, I like your page (just can't like it formally from my phone - will do so when I get on the laptop next). Did you know that Mr Shehata tests for nkcells on the NHS?

In my opinion it's actually not so much the tests that need to be available (as they are still somewhat controversial - uterine biopsy vs blood test) but the steroid treatment. 
I love that you are raising awareness! I have my steroid baby and I hope many other women get theirs, too!


----------



## Bumpblues82

He will only do it with a referral :/ and my gp said that I'd need a out of area referral team to decide if I'd be allowed and he said they are notorious for saying no any way thanks for ur like :) I got my test results back today..

My team and I have studied your endometrium very thoroughly.
*
We have found that the following changes have occurred: your glands have developed normally, your stromal cells appear to be developing normally, blood vessels are appearing normally and the epithelial surface looks normal. These changes mean that ovulation occurred, as did the post ovulation rise in oestrogen and progesterone and that these hormones had the desired effect on your endometrium.
*
Your NK count was 3.8% of your stromal cells. *
The upper limit of normal is 5%.
*
This result was normal
*


----------



## jackie132

My thyroid levels tsh always well below 1...currently 0.1 which is super low. My t4 is 19 which is top end average but I'm 6 months pregnant and specialists have said they want t4 at this top end of normal. 

I've been told tsh should be below 2 to prevent antithyriod antibodies. I can't say if these cause my miscarriages as I've covered all aspects empirically to try to keep this baby sticky. 

X


----------



## Bumpblues82

ok just thought id share the joy :)


----------



## leylak

congrats! :happydance:


----------



## Bumpblues82

thanks 
i got my results from nk tests ns all is normal my level was 3.8% so she is putting me on prgesterone and im gonna ne scanned at 6 weeks and every 2 weeks after that xx


----------



## petitpas

Ooh, congrats! I hope the progesterone does the trick and this is your sticky one!


----------



## Bumpblues82

better pic


----------



## lexi374

Congrats bump!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:


----------



## Bumpblues82

getting a bit sceptical about it... i did the test at 7,30pm waited a few mins and then went down stairs till 9pm then looked at it again and that was there its not an evap as its deffo pink am i right in thinking no hcg would mean no pink?


----------



## Bumpblues82

just cause i had a false pos the month after last mc but i think that was hormones from mc and had 2 periods since


----------



## Tasha

:hugs: bump. I dont think you can count a + outside of the time frame. So I would do another test.


----------



## Bumpblues82

i did an asda 4days before one and neg and a internet cheap one this morning and was neg but it wouldnt be pink if there was no hcg??


----------



## Bumpblues82

Well I walked over to tesco and did another frer and neg in ten mins so I guess my was a big fat PINK evap line


----------



## lexi374

Im sorry bump... :hugs:


----------



## Bumpblues82

it may still be too early ill see if af turns up this week then test again totally sucks tho!!


----------



## Amber3

So 4 cycles of Prednisolon did not do the trick here and I just got my period.
I guess the next step for me is an endometriosis operation :cry:
I wish all you guys the best.
Amber


----------



## leylak

amber, bump :hugs:
I have an update. I will write you when I have the time.
key words are IUI and prednisolone.


----------



## petitpas

Amber, I'm sorry it didn't work with the pills alone :hugs:
You know, I had a laparoscopy for endometriosis just before ttc-ing. It worked a treat for me, I hope it does for you, too!


----------



## Bumpblues82

hey! im getting fain pos lines on tests at the mo so think im on the way to my bfp! no steroids for me but progesterone :) xx


----------



## Amber3

Thank you for cheering me up.
Next steps for me are hysteroscopy etc and then some immune testing.

Congratulations on your baby, you must be so happy:)

Best wishes,
A


----------



## petitpas

Hi Amber, I was on the waiting list for a hysteroscopy when I fell pregnant with ducky. I don't think they can spot endometriosis with that operation (you need a laparoscopy for that) but it is a good next step as it checks all uterine abnormalities :thumbup:


----------



## Bumpblues82

yey!!


----------



## Amber3

That's great:)
I meant laporoscopy. But I will have lap done with hysteroscopy and dye test - the more at once the better.

Amber


----------



## petitpas

Bumpy, congrats! I hope this is your sticky one!

Amber, might as well get everything done while they are at it :lol:


----------



## Bumpblues82

thnx me too :)


----------



## lexi374

Congratulations bumpy!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:


----------



## Bumpblues82

ty lexi xx :woohoo:


----------



## hopeful23456

Congrats bump! 

Amber- I had dye test (hsg) and at another appt had lap and hys to remove a uterine septum. Also had MRI and a couple of saline infusion tests. If I would have just started with the lap/hys I wouldn't have had to do anything else but I was scared to have surgery and be put under. It went fine though!


----------



## Bumpblues82

ok so proesterone didnt work and i miscarried last week at 9+4 dr q said she will try me on everything next time even though i had a normal biopsy so thats progesterone steroids and heparin has this happened to any of u?


----------



## hopeful23456

Bumpblues- all of my tests were normal, was on prog, pred, lovenox, baby asp. 
My clinic has has a lot of success with recurrent early mc where all tests normal and had girls take all those meds. First tri for all but baby asp which is thru 30 weeks or so? Maybe little less?


----------



## Bumpblues82

whats lovenox?


----------



## hopeful23456

Pretty much the same as heparin. They use lovenox in the states


----------



## Bumpblues82

doesnt heparin do the same thing as baby asp?


----------



## hopeful23456

Baby asp crosses the placenta and heparin doesn't so they can help with different clots in different places. It seems like heparin has helped girls who have miscarried after heartbeats were found too, seems like having the blood thinner helps keep things going. Even if u don't have clotting issues. And sometimes it doesn't help which totally sucks. This was the first pregnancy I had been on lovenox and prednisone too, i was on just baby aspirin for 2 miscarriages and this pregnancy (kept taking baby asp for a year and a half)


----------



## Bumpblues82

oh ok cool im going to see the other doc soon who did my biopsy and she suggested i go on the lot lol but she never mentioned asprain but ill see if she will do that too this is like litrally one last shot!!


----------



## leylak

I'm sorry for you loss bump, I hope this last shot works for you.
We did IUI with 16 mg prednisolone. I wanted to give prednisolone a shot without IUI but my dr said it would increase my chances by only 2%. So we went with injectables, progesterone pills and prednisolone. Luckily, I got my BFP at the first try. I think it's the steroids that did the trick. :thumbup:
I had used 0.5 mg dexamethasone (equivalent to 3.33 mg pred) for 9-10 cycles to no avail.


----------



## peacebaby

:hi: ladies 

Resurrecting this thread in the hope of connecting with ladies who have had immune therapy.

Congratulations to all the steroid mummies from this thread:flower::flower: I bet you're all madly in love with your steroid babies :cloud9:

It is so inspiring to know how well the immune treatment has worked for all of you.

After 3 losses I finally got extensive immune tests done and these were the only results that indicated a problem. This was my first cycle doing intralipids prior to ovulation, clexane, progesterone and low dose aspirin (after bfp). Truly amazed and grateful that it seems to be working so far, fingers crossed and touch wood!

I have an unusual question for those who have given birth after immune treatment, did you examine the placenta or were you told whether it looked "normal" or did it have a gritty texture with calcifications? The gritty texture is apparently commonly found in ladies with immune issues. 

Thanks for reading!


----------



## Tasha

That is interesting peacebaby, all my placentas have been gritty with calcification, blamed it on my clotting disorders. I am currently waiting for the results of natural killer cells biopsy x


----------



## petitpas

Hi peace! 
I had my placenta looked at (even have pictures and video commentary :haha:). I was curious for the same reason but my placenta was in perfect condition. I suppose that all the meds did the trick :thumbup:
How far along are you now?


----------



## peacebaby

Hi Tasha! Sincerely sorry about your losses :hugs::hugs::hugs:

Actually, i read the RMC thread so I kinda "know" you!

Yes it is very interesting. I read it in the book "Is your body baby friendly?" by Dr Alan Beer. It seems to me to be "reverse proof" that the steroid/immune treatment was necessary if the placenta is gritty. 

Did you do the biopsy with Prof Q? Hope the results give you something to work with and leads to a successful outcome :hugs:


----------



## filipenko32

Hi peace! Oh that's very interesting. I'm a roid pregnancy but i don't think I will have my placenta looked at.


----------



## peacebaby

Hi Petitpas!

Your little boy is so yummy :cloud9:

That is even more interesting! It's precisely what i was wondering, whether the steroid normalises things so the placenta is as it should be. 

I'm just over 8wks and terribly nervous but it is the first time we've got this far with a heartbeat. My treatment plan is very similar to Mon_n_John's with intralipids every 3 weeks. 

Thanks for popping in xxx


----------



## peacebaby

filipenko32 said:


> Hi peace! Oh that's very interesting. I'm a roid pregnancy but i don't think I will have my placenta looked at.

 :hi:Fili Wow! Look at you almost on the home run! So happy to see it worked for you :hugs:

When will the NHS wake up and smell the steroid brew?!


----------



## Tasha

Thank you, and I am sorry for yours. 

I really need to read that book, I think.

I saw Professor Quenby and Professor Brosens, Professor Brosens did the biopsy though as I have known him a few years now.

You are so right about smelling the steriod coffee, how can this all be some weird coincidence, looking at all these women who either have their raiinbows in their arms or in their tums?

I have everything crossed for you x


----------



## peacebaby

Tasha I can't recommend the book enough. I took it with me to every appointment and i think it helped because dr's realise that you're not going to just accept any old shoddy excuse. I also printed out all the information from immune drs in the US. Still, last week my NHS RMC consultant insisted that the NKc test is meaningless and that intralipids do nothing:growlmad: But after i said that I'd seen his private practice website where he openly advertises immune treatment he quickly changed his attitude, admitting that clexane improves implantation etc. 

These drugs cost less than it does for the NHS to deal with repeated ERPC's so it is criminal that they won't accept the evidence.

I hope there is good news for you soon :hugs: I will look out for that!


----------



## Hope39

Peace what immune testing did you have done?

Did you get the intralipids on the NHS? 

I agree with taking info, I printed some info off Dr Shehata website re treatment for thyroid antibodies and think I have persuaded my consultant to prescribe steroids 

Xx


----------



## petitpas

I think the main problem is that it is very difficult to collect scientific evidence. There is a trial going on at the moment but it must be very hard for them to find the right test subjects.
To be honest, I'm not too convinced of the tests but I am convinced the steroid treatment works. There are just too many of us having live babies :D

Fili, it is standard procedure for the midwife to check your placenta. They just don't always mention it. I happened to be asked whether I wanted mine (some people do the funniest things with them!) and just said no, I only wanted to see it.

Peace, I'm keeping everything crossed for your bubs fxfxfxfx


----------



## Tasha

Yeah, it seems that the trials you have to have no known other cause (like clotting disorders) but many of us have clotting disorders AND nk cell/other immune issues. So it will take a while to get enough of the people without anything else.


----------



## peacebaby

Hope39 said:


> Peace what immune testing did you have done?
> 
> Did you get the intralipids on the NHS?
> 
> I agree with taking info, I printed some info off Dr Shehata website re treatment for thyroid antibodies and think I have persuaded my consultant to prescribe steroids
> 
> Xx

Hi Hope!
Great work on persuading the consultant.

I took the standard NHS RMC tests but then "filled the gaps" by doing the more advanced immune tests privately. I saw Dr Amin Gorgy at the Fertility & Gynae Academy. He does lots of different tests and doesn't believe in focusing just on the NKc test in isolation. Usually, he first tests for hidden infections that could be causing the immune upheaval. I chose him because he is very flexible and gives the patient the choice of which tests you wish to spend your money on. Generally the most reliable testing is done in Chicago so he sends it out there. But there is a lab at St Heliers Hospital in Epsom that has started doing some of the tests. They are less expensive and accept a GP signed test request form. Here they are: https://www.ri-centre.co.uk/ However, the results can only be interpreted by an immune specialist so you still need to see someone privately. Lots of UK ladies are flying out to Spain and the Czech Republic to get the tests and treatment there - cheaper and very accessible. 

Re:intralipids I got the initial prescription from Dr G and showed it to my GP. I wanted her to provide me with a repeat prescription and she did that but as a private prescription. Still it only costs £13 a bag and I go to a nursing company in central London to administer it. It still costs far far less than many of the doctors charge! Please feel free to pm if you'd like more info. 

Petitpas, thank you for the good wishes :hugs: I was sceptical about the test too but after talking to various US specialists I understand where the misconception lies. They believe that you can't rely solely on the total NKc count and that the more relevant result is the killing power of the NKc. Thats why most immune drs look at the entire spectrum of immune cells and subsets of cells in addition to the NKc. 

Yes you're both right Petitpas & Tasha, it would very difficult to get a large trial done because there are so many combinations of issues that different ladies will have. But the clinical evidence of the all the IVF clinics that use immune treatment speaks for itself. With the NHs there will always be the political wrangling in the background and the competition for research funding. Sadly, for most women the treatment will remain inaccessible for the forseeable future.

:hugs: everyone


----------



## Hope39

I can't believe they only cost £13, docs charge £350!!

You need to empty your messages, then I can PM you :)


----------



## peacebaby

Oops sorry its clear now !

Yeah some charge even more than that...women are vulnerable and desperate so they charge exorbitant prices. Elsewhere in the EU clinics charge between 50-90.


----------



## Hope39

It's disgusting that it costs so little yet they charge so much

I'm not desperate yet, can't be far off now, lol!!

I will PM you tomorrow Hun

Xx


----------



## Tasha

Oh wow, that is disgusting.


----------



## Tasha

So I got my results. Elevated NKC, and I need steriods.


----------



## peacebaby

Tasha, weird as this sounds that is great news :happydance: but how sad that you've had to suffer so much to get to finally get an answer :hugs: 

May you be the next steroid success!!!


----------



## petitpas

Tasha, I'm glad you will be getting the steroids. Might as well throw everything at you at this point :hugs: Will you be taking them from ovulation?


----------



## Hope39

I'm getting steroids and clexane for my next pregnancy too!

Thankfully I haven't had to have an NK cell test, my consultant accepted the info I gave her off Dr Shehata website re thyroid antibodies and has decided to prescribe pred. She rang me yesterday to tell me she wasn't going to bother referring me to St Mary for Teg test, she will prescribe clexane instead

NHS are finally listening to me!

I will also be on progesterone and high dose folic but was in them last time too

Come on AF, hurry up

Xx


----------



## peacebaby

Wow Hope that is a great outcome in dealing with an NHS consultant! 

Dr Sher in the US says that often it is the combination of the steroid, clexane, progesterone and in your case high dose folic acid that makes all the difference.

Fingers crossed for you & Tasha! 

Good luck xxx


----------



## leylak

Tasha, Hope, good luck! I am sorry for your losses but I hope you will have your steroid babies in your arms soon!
My dr prescribed pred for my IUI without NK cell test. No one except him seems to treat unexplained infertility with steroids but I believe it was what worked for me. Although I lost one year TTC on low dose dexamethasone, I am glad I did not suffer any more losses.


----------



## gbnf

Hi peptitas 

Congrats on your lil boy he is gorgeous, Iwent to see mr s in london in june and have been diagnosed with high nk cell as well as high activation, steroids it is for me took them last month but BFN :growlmad: currently 4po so fingers crossed for this one he hasnt given me cleaxane as nothing wrong with antiphoslipids just a bit worried incase i would be better off taking them anyway. I am to test on the 30th nov as ovulated the on day 14 started steroids on day 15


----------



## babydust5656

Hi Hope39, are you taking steroids on a natural cycle or an embryo transfer? thanks..


----------



## filipenko32

Baby dust hope is on natural cycles


----------



## Hope39

Yep I'm all natural, I will take them as soon as I get a positive pregnancy test xx


----------



## babydust5656

Thank you lovely ladies :)

i had another scan today and doc said my lining in .6 and he would like it to be .8 by this Thursday before the FET. if not he won&#8217;t do the transfer this cycle and do the next cycle with hormone therapy. 
I'm on my day 12 of this cycle. in my last cycle i ovulated on day 19 so my cycles are longer even on clomid. Is there anything i can do/eat(foods) to improve the lining? I&#8217;m already taking 75mg baby asprin, doc said that helps for the lining too. 
thanks again to all of you..


----------



## Hope39

Filipenko32 took something to thicken her lining, I'm sure it was oestrogen but could be totally wrong. Hers was a monitored clomid cycle. I get fili to drop in here and confirm x


----------



## petitpas

Well, the good news is your lining should be thickening on its own. It usually puffs up big time once you have ovulated.
I had a doctor once say my lining was too thin to conceive. Oh how wrong he was... :haha: As you still have a few extra days to go until ovulation I really wouldn't worry just yet.

Good luck everyone with the roids! Come on, babies :happydance::happydance:


----------



## filipenko32

Baby dust and hope, I had gallons of red raspberry leaf tea and estrogen tablets just before I was given the trigger shot to release the eggs. For me, (and everyone is different) clomid instantly thinned my lining. I think I was on 100 mg estrogen a day for 4 days and then it had thickened before baby implanted! I think it got to about 7 at the time of the trigger shot and that's the last I knew. I'd never had a lining problem before clomid! For most people it takes a few cycles of it to start developing lining probs but it was a problem for me after 1st cycle on clomid, doc was a bit shocked! Xx


----------



## leylak

As far as I know, estrogen thickens the lining and once ovulation happens, progesterone improves glands and arteries and gets the lining ready for implantation rather than thickening it further. As follicles develop, estrogen production seems to increase exponentially towards ovulation so a lot can happen in a few days. Good luck!


----------



## babydust5656

Hi Laidies, little update from me. I went for a scan y'day and my lining was 9.1 I'm so.... happy!! all i could think about was my lining y'day LOL may be the asprin also helped. Now i have to catch the ovulation surge to go fwd with the FET with steroids. hoping to test from two different brands as i dont always catch my ovulation. any good brands? is it true that ovulation test should be done in the eve rather than morning?


----------



## Tasha

Yeah not FMU as it builds up over night. I use clear blue as they are the easiest for me x


----------



## petitpas

I used cheapos on the afternoon. I could usually tell it was coming a couple of days before I got a positive as the line was getting stronger.
Good luck, hon!


----------



## babydust5656

Thank you ladies.. I did the test from clear blue & a online one that i buy. Both came positive with a strong line :))


----------



## petitpas

Go go FET! :happydance:


----------



## babydust5656

Ladies.. just to know, since i have caught my ovulation, is it okay to try naturally too? just to maximise my chances? i'm doing the FET next Thursday. Very nervous as my IVF embryo transfer didnt implant at all 2 years ago. I have been naturally preg twice and miscarried. what's new this time is the steriods.. i really hope that will do the trick for me..


----------



## gbnf

babydust5656 said:


> Hi Hope39, are you taking steroids on a natural cycle or an embryo transfer? thanks..

hi im taking steroids on a natural cycle


----------



## gbnf

hi ladies 

tested today bfn feeling rather low at the minute anbody taking steroids and testing soon, af due tuesday any chance its still too early


----------



## babydust5656

Hi gbnf, its best to wait until af is due. I have had negative tests while i was preg (not on steroids though) but the blood showed i was preg. i miscarried it however. if you are testing too early it could be that there is less hcg in your urine still if you are preg. i have heard that first response is quite effective. good luck hun.. my prayers are with you.


----------



## babydust5656

Ladies, i started my 5mg 5 tablets a day of Prednisolone. is that what you ladies are on too? is it 5mg tablets?


----------



## Hope39

I think my prescription will be for 25mg, well that's what I asked for


----------



## filipenko32

I took 25 mg a day after ov and then it was upped to 40mg at bfp, it doesn't make a difference if they are in pieces of 5mg or not. Hope that helps!

Edit, I carried on at 40mg and then started weaning off them by 5mg every week at 8 weeks I think. I was completely off them by 13 weeks.


----------



## Tasha

Mine is 20mg from BFP until ten completed weeks, 10mg for one further week and 5mg for one more x


----------



## babydust5656

Thank you ever so much for the replies sweet ladies.. i'm on 25mg a day so same as most of you :)


----------



## petitpas

They do exist as 25mg tablets (in case you didn't want to take five tablets a day). I was on 25mg from ovulation until 12 weeks and then reduced by 5mg every three days. There are several protocols out there and they all seem to work :thumbup:

As for ttc-ing during an FET cycle, I have no idea, sorry :shrug:


----------



## babydust5656

My transfer is on Thursday.. getting so nervous..


----------



## filipenko32

Good luck!!


----------



## babydust5656

ladies, i have got thrush.. :( went and bought canesten pessary & cream. is it okay to have them while i'm having progesterone virginally too? both virginally? my clinic is closed now. i want to be able to have the thrush under controlled for Thursday transfer. I read that thrush messes up your PH balance in there.. so freaking out a bit..


----------



## Hope39

Some progesterone suppositories can be inserted in back passage! Is it cyclogest? X


----------



## babydust5656

Thanks Hope39.. they are cyclogest and can be done via back passage. may be i'll do that.. thanks again.. i'm more comfortable virginally though.


----------



## Hope39

I've always done them vaginally, have never fancied the back passage myself either.

With my last mc I had a D&C I had to take a pessary and use back passage, I think it was antibiotics, It was about 4 times bigger than a cyclogest, it wasn't a problem. I about died when she gave it me as it seemed huge!

The things we talk about on B&B

Xx


----------



## petitpas

Baby, I thought that the back would be one step too far for me but I tried and it wasn't so bad at all! In fact, it was much less messy/stressful (worried about the pessary falling out during bathroom visits) so I continued taking it that way.
If you can bear it, give it a try. Needs must :haha:
Yeah, the things we do... :nope: ...all worth it in the end, mind!


----------



## Bumpblues82

hello everyone!!!

so glad all u preg ladies are doing well!! and all u ttc sre doing well too xxx

so afm... lol i think i told u what the specialist found out but ill tell u again incase lol
so dr quenby told me that my womb is accepting anything and cant tell weather its implanting a good egg or a bad one which explains the mcs that have had genetics faults but doesnt explain emma who was fine so she reckons that when i do implant a good egg i just cant sustain the pregnancy so heres the plan she gave me

take progesterone 200mg from day 21-28 of cycle (or last week depending on length of cycle)
on last day of cycle do a hpt if its + up the dose of progesterone to 400mg if neg stop and try again next month - this is meant to help my womb filter good eegs from bad eggs
then when i do get preg i have to be on heparin injections, baby asprain, progesterone and steriods to see if that will help me carry the baby to term providing the previous plan worked and i implanted a good egg...
BUT... if i havnt got preg within 6 cycles i have to stop and thats all that can be done for me other than trying naturally and hoping i get a good egg..
2nd BUT... we havnt started this whole progesterone thing as yet and we had unprotected sex twice this month and as i dunno when i ov its a problem as im now 5 days late.. but hpts are still negative.. but every time this happens they take ages to show positive either that or... im on too much thyroxine lol i had a dip in my thyroid levels and was poorly for a few weeks so doc upped them and im ok now was only by 25mg so not a huge increase and my periods stayed regular thru all this so that didnt affect them but im wondering if it could have something to do with increased dose as too much can cause u to stop periods but i think thats only in the case of larger doses than 25mg so once again ladies im utterly stumped!! lol


----------



## Hope39

Bump - I've never heard of too much thyroxine affecting your periods

What did your tsh go up too before they increased your dose and what dose you on now

My tsh dropped right down to 0.3 and it never affected my periods

Xx


----------



## Bumpblues82

he never said what it went up to just that i needed more it was 100mg now im on 125mg


----------



## Hope39

Oh ok, i always ring up the docs for my result and email it to my old endocrinologist and he advises what to do, i had it tested monthly for 9 months till it seem to stabilise, now i just get it tested as soon as i get a BFP at about 4 weeks pregnant.

I felt great when i was at 0.3 so even though that is quite low they decided i can stay on the dose becuase it creeps up as soon as i am preggo, it went from 0.3 to 1.3 by the time i was 4 weeks pregnant. Do they increase your dose when you are pregnant?

xx


----------



## Bumpblues82

well they didnt last time as it never budged lol but i dunno about any in future i spose it just depends at the time.. im just impatient i guess lol im 5 days late and still no pos test :/


----------



## Hope39

You should be under an endocrinologist if you are pregnant and have thyroid problems

My NHS consultant told me that you end up increasing your dose by about 20% in the first tri? Do you get yours checked when you are pregnant? If not, you really should do

xx


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## Bumpblues82

yer last few times i have been preg they were checked regulaly and they stayed fine the endocrinologist said that it wasnt my thyroid causeing problems and she will only see me after my 12 week scan when im preg :/ and i never get that far


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## babydust5656

Oh.. the day has come and transfer is today :)) any last minute advice ladies..


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## filipenko32

No advice but... Good luck!


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## Hope39

Good luck

Xx


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## peacebaby

Good luck baby dust! Rest and lots of water :hugs:


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## Tasha

Can I ask the girls who have elevated NK cells, if they've ever had a blood transfusion?

Also those of you who've been diagnosed with NK cells after having a take home baby, have any of you had sections previously?


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## babydust5656

Hi Gals.. Did the FET y'day :) and all went well (had a bad experience in the previous transfer right after ivf ) resting at home now.. drinking a lot of water too.. I did some cooking today and hope that's ok. Nurse mentions that i can return to normal activity and little exercise is good. so hard to not to think of the outcome.. i know that i have done all possible and not it's not within my control now.. how do you cope?


Tasha, just to let you know that my NK cells weren't tested. i'm given steroids because doc cant find a reason for my MCs. So he thought it could be my immunity. fingers crossed


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## peacebaby

Tasha said:


> Can I ask the girls who have elevated NK cells, if they've ever had a blood transfusion?
> 
> Also those of you who've been diagnosed with NK cells after having a take home baby, have any of you had sections previously?

Hi Tasha

Interesting question !

My NKc were highly elevated and also found to have very high killing power. Also had other elevated inflammatory cytokines. Never had a blood transfusion but I do have other autoimmune issues, which was thought to be the reason for the NKc issue.

Hoping for good news for you soon!


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## petitpas

Babydust Fxfxfxfxfxfxfx

Tasha, no blood transfusions here. I had a planned section with J.
Do you mind me asking why you wanted to know?


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## Tasha

Thank you girls. 

I am just trying to figure out what caused this for me. I know it can happen at any time but I cant help but feel the section (and consequent blood transfusions) are connected in some way, for me.


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## petitpas

It's possible. Could also be a virus you had or stress. Our immune systems can be triggered by all kinds of 'interesting' events.


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## babydust5656

Hi Ladies, I got a BFN! so bummed out and dont know what to feel.. confused and sad!


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## leylak

babydust :hugs:


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## filipenko32

:hugs: from me too babydust, I can imagine that you're devastated, you will get there hun hang in there. x


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## gbnf

Hi girls 

I would really be grateful for some advice Im currently on mr s treatment plan got bfp on the 26 dec but had betas yesterday at 4 weeks 3 days and they are only 95 repeating them on Monday 

Any one else had low betas to start and been ok 

Praying constantly 

X


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## filipenko32

I hated betas and only ever relied on a scan after 2nd mc, but I'm a Shehata success story! Due to give birth in a few days after high dose steroids 40mg after bfp 25mg before it plus all his aspirin and vit d! Dont worry Hun just have a scan after 6 weeks. And the very best of luck to you. You might wanna join this support group https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...-pal-after-recurrent-losses-come-join-us.html


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## gbnf

filipenko32 said:


> I hated betas and only ever relied on a scan after 2nd mc, but I'm a Shehata success story! Due to give birth in a few days after high dose steroids 40mg after bfp 25mg before it plus all his aspirin and vit d! Dont worry Hun just have a scan after 6 weeks. And the very best of luck to you. You might wanna join this support group https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...-pal-after-recurrent-losses-come-join-us.html

HI filipenko

thanks for the reply and congratulations on your pregnancy

It has been a long weekend so far waiting for more bloods tomorrow, not sure what to think im approx 5 weeks tomorrow so fingers crossed betas have doubled. I will let everyone you know how i get on hopefully im just a slow starter. Had low and slow rising betas with my last mmc but wasnt on mr s plan then

xxx


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## filipenko32

I had one trisomy loss on shahata's plan so it wasnt going to develop anyway Roids or not. However before then, not on shehata's plan I had a normal chromosome wise male loss :-(. I think if i had been on the Roids then for the normal loss he would have survived. This is my second attempt on his plan. Me and hubs think the Roids must do something but as with all women we are not immune to those random chromosome errors. How many mc's have you had? Did you ever have chromosome testing?

My history is all in my ttc link front page if you're interested - see link in sig.


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## gbnf

filipenko32 said:


> I had one trisomy loss on shahata's plan so it wasnt going to develop anyway Roids or not. However before then, not on shehata's plan I had a normal chromosome wise male loss :-(. I think if i had been on the Roids then for the normal loss he would have survived. This is my second attempt on his plan. Me and hubs think the Roids must do something but as with all women we are not immune to those random chromosome errors. How many mc's have you had? Did you ever have chromosome testing?
> 
> My history is all in my ttc link front page if you're interested - see link in sig.

Hi Filli

I have had 10 mmcs and currently five weeks today had chromosone testing and all genetically normal male and female all these before steroids. Second beta was 138 so not hopeful at the min took 25mg pred from bfp as we were not trying this cycle going to see mr s on the 21st jan local epac doing bloods and scans assume i will know before i go to see him, my last pregnancy was like this in april after having a septum removed at st marys low and slow rising betas seen hb at 6 weeks but was slow 7 days later no heartbeat.

xx


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## hopeful23456

hi gbnf - are you also taking heparin just to see if it helps? i had a septum removed in nov, 2010


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## gbnf

hopeful23456 said:


> hi gbnf - are you also taking heparin just to see if it helps? i had a septum removed in nov, 2010

Hi Hopeful

no heparin for me and nothing wrong with antiphoslipids and i have tried them previously had bloods done at st marys and no heparin required

3rd beta,s today are 301 so doubling time of 42hours now still a long way to go but maybe this lil one was a slow starter not really sure what to think

xxxx


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## petitpas

Ooh, that sounds much better! Keeping my fingers crossed for your scan fxfxfxfxfx


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## gbnf

Hi pip. 

Thanks for the best wishes scan is in the 18th the wait is killing me not knowing just hope it's news worth waiting for xxxxx


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## Hope39

Hi all

Got my BFP on Monday so started the clexane and Prednisolone 

So far so good, no side affects as yet (touch wood)

Xx


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## leylak

Good luck hope! I hope this will be your forever baby...


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## hopeful23456

Congrats hope! Will be stalking pal thread (and have been. Lol)


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## petitpas

Oooh, Hope :happydance: Keeping all fingers and toes crossed for you fxfxfxfxfxfxfx


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## LeeC

Pip, I can't believe Julian is 10 months already. He is adorable.


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## petitpas

And I can't believe you are 35 weeks although in a way I think you are well overdue your rainbow baby :D


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## Tasha

Wow, seeing tickers is strange. Lee 35 weeks :shock: I cant for your baby to be born, I hope someone lets the recurrent thread know cos I dont go into the PARL atm.

And pip, ten months has flown by hasnt it?


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## Hope39

I can let you know Tasha xx


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## Tasha

Thank you Hope. 

Your siggy makes me smile too. I have everything crossed that number six is sticky.

How are you finding the steriods?


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## Hope39

Absolutely fine, I've lost weight!! No insomnia, no hunger, no nothing 

Oh apart from shit hair, my hairdresser actually asked me if I was on some sort of medication. I about chocked and said take your pic, then started laughing so she clicked I am pregnant. She is a mate of a very long time and knows everything. 

I friend req you on fb too xx


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## Hope39

Mel

This is what Peace Baby wrote in steroid thread. i have pm her for you

Re:intralipids I got the initial prescription from Dr G and showed it to my GP. I wanted her to provide me with a repeat prescription and she did that but as a private prescription. Still it only costs £13 a bag and I go to a nursing company in central London to administer it. It still costs far far less than many of the doctors charge! Please feel free to pm if you'd like more ink


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## Tasha

Oh wow, that is fantastic. You know how nervous I am about tomorrows results and thinking I might need intralipids.


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## Hope39

I'm such a plank, I was meant to post that on fili journal


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## Tasha

Still helped me though x


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## Hope39

Here you go tasha: I've had this pm:

I got the intralipid administered by a nursing company in Central London called Independent Nursing Services. They are the company who does the intralipids for all Zita West patients. Generally you take your prescription to them and they provide a full service -I.e they provide the intralipids bag, the saline solution with which it is mixed and the administration of it. I am not sure exactly how much they charge for this full service, at the time it was about £100. I had already purchased my intralipid from a pharmacy so all i paid the nursing company for was the saline solution and administering fee, for this they charged me £81.50. I paid £15 per bag of intralipids from Ali's Chemist (google for details). During treatment a nurse checks your bp etc. I found them to be very professional and of course so much cheaper than the doctors !


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## Tasha

Thank you so much Hope (and to who sent you that).


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## mandy1971

Bump


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## mandy1971

Hopefully resurrecting his thread.... I got my bfp last week, currently 4+5 ish.... I had the unkc biopsy lSeptember and my level is 12.87% ( high end of normal is 5%)..I have tried prednisilone twice already...last summer after IVF 20mg from egg collection... Despite 2 chromosonally embryos being implanted no pregnancy took... 
Had a natural pregnancy in July/august thus year and took 20mg from bfp.,got to around 7 weeks., flickering heart beat at 6 weeks... Progress for me as no heartbeat detected with all other miscarriages which all ended around 5 week mark...
My onsultant is Dr quenby who advises 20mg from bfp.,cyclogest 400mg twice daily from 7dpo...and no asprin.......
I've tweaked it myself this time and took 10mg prednisilone from 2-3dpo then 20mg from 4dpo.. faint bfp around 12dpo and increased prednisilone to 40mg..... Hoping this is my rainbow finally...
I'd love to share the journey...
No real symptoms this time,boobs definately have shrunk.!(not a bad thing for me...) I usually get boob discomfort even on 20mg prednisilone.... Had period type cramp at 13_14dpo... Nothing since...Fxd..
So until 22nd of November at first scan 6+2 its a game of patience..


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## Briss

Ladies, can I ask what tests have you done to find out if you have NK cells? I had biopsy 1.5 years ago it came as normal but I do not know if they were looking at NK cells. I really do not want to have another one done. Is it possible to just do a blood test to find that out? My thyroid and antibody bloods came normal, does it help at all? Our first IVF ended in chemical, I know it's too early to start suspecting immune issues but we are paying for the treatment ourselves and I really want the second one to work (we have low sperm count so TTC naturally just does not work for us, it's been 3.5 years and not a sniff of a BFP until we tried IVF). I know NK cell test must be expensive but it's cheaper than wasting another IVF.


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## Hope39

Hi briss

Dr Shehata tests nk cells via blood and can be seen on nhs, you would only get a referal if you have had recurrent miscarriages

Professor Quenby does a uterine biopsy to test for them but again you need a recurrent miscarriage referal and she charges £360

You could see a private doctor who tests nk cells via blood but its a Chicago level 2 immune test, bloods get sent to Chicago. Just to confuse you even more, some girls send blood themselves via FedEx and a lady on fertility friend is very good at translating results......


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## Hope39

Mandy I hope my boobs don't shrink, I've lost near on 3st and they've shrunk enough already.......


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## petitpas

Hi there! :wave:
My bbs shrunk whilst on the steroids but I can assure you that they came back big-time afterwards! So no need to worry about such things, they really are just temporary.

I saw Mr Shehata privately. He checked all the tests I already had and then just ordered the blood test for nkcells.

Good luck to both of you!

PS: Mandy, any reason why you aren't taking aspirin? I'd have thought they were throwing everything at you by now...?


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## Tasha

I saw Dr Quenby without referral, well I self referred, if that's any help.


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## lexi374

I saw Prof Quenby without a referral too, I just emailed her. Good luck x


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## Hope39

Pip you should share a pic of your sticky steroid baby or do you keep them to your journals only?

Xx


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## petitpas

Hope, there are some pictures in my journal. J is also my avatar. It was the first time he said 'cheese' to the camera.


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## Hope39

Ha ha, didn't notice your avatar. Xx


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## petitpas

You'll have your own gorgeous avatar baby soon, I'm sure!


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## Hope39

Oh I hope so, been on this journey far too long now xx


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## mandy1971

Pip, dr q didn't want me on asprin she felt it wasn't good for developing womb lining....I am taking clexane injections though since 12 dpo, though I don't think I'm supposed to take it till 6 week scan and heart beat detection, figured I should be taking some kind of blood thinner as my placenta was tested from last miscarriage which had blood clots that "weren't usual" according to my consultant, he didn't comment further though and neither did prof q.... So I am left wondering...... 
Boobs are getting a little more tingly now and occasional pain...
I am currently around 5+4.. Scan on Friday...


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## mandy1971

Hope39 said:


> Oh I hope so, been on this journey far too long now xx

Meantime honey you will have a fabulous time over Xmas and new year not stressing about a pregnancy and allowing yourself a little glass of vino or three... New year new beginnings you really deserve it xxxx


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## Hope39

New year new beginnings, I have said that every year since NY eve 2010, my firsts due date :( . 

every year I think this year will be different and so far it hasn't so 2014 best bloody well be my year, and yours Hun x


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## mandy1971

Not been here for a while so an update I am around 8 weeks pregnant I had my first scan on 22 nd November and it only showed the yolk sac I thought I would have seen the baby at least., follow up scan 6 days later showed baby but at only 1.8 mm and only measuring around the 5 week mark... Then yesterday I went for another scan baby had grown to 4.8mm and had a strong heart beat with good rate... I really thought we were out... I'm still measuring around 6 weeks but putting it down to late implantation or as some girls on parl thread have said maybe a second ovulation....

My symptoms are more pronounced now boobs have been sore on and off for about 2 weeks.... Bad indigestion worse at night in bed... Got to be the steroids.. Gaviscon helps... Getting a bit of back ache now and cramping... Which I know is normal., doesn't stop an rpl lady from suffering the anxiety though... 
And also I'm getting really fat scared to weigh myself., if I stick my belly out I easily look 5 months preggers... So I need to reign it in on the diet front.. Bought myself a cheap blood glucose monitor and to date touch wood the levels are normal.

Would be nice to have some other steroid ladies on board here to share the journey x


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## Hope39

Mandy that's fab news Hun, your the First Lady I personally know of that has had those scans measuring behind and then boom there a heartbeat when you least expecting it. 

I'm dreading weight gain, I've had so many people notice my weight loss and comment all time, now they gonna be thinking I'm getting a chunky monkey. Did it go on quickly? It soons drops off when you weaned too, c


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## mandy1971

Hi hope I've been thinking about you past few days.. How are you.,? Weights been gradual.. But I've now been on the steroids for 6 weeks., I had been on 40 mg from bfp and 20 mg from ovulation( not dr quenby a instructions...) or I'd be a bit thinner... I though it was game over when I went for scan last week and reduced the steroids to 30 mg.... I actually feel less bloated this week since dropping the 10 mgs... I have been eating rubbish on them though at times.. So I'm trying to make a concerted effort with eating more salads and soup at meal times.. This past few days.. The face hair is becoming slightly more obvious., thankfully mind is blonde...facial Strip wax is my new friend..lol


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## Hope39

oh god dont, im really really dark, olive skinned, dark hair the lot, my moustache is bad enough as it is without more. 

in answer to your question as to how i am....................... totally and utterly f'd off. i went for my hystocospy today to check the septate surgery was successful and make sure no scarring......... the consultant turns round after the procedure and 
says "you still have a septum there so you need to see your rmc consultant again". 

she walked out of the room so the nurses were making me get up out the chair to get dressed while the clamp thing was still inside me, ouch.

i was in tears by the time i had got dressed to go sit with the consultant to discuss.

Im then told the earliest rmc appointment is feb, well you can imagine, the floodgates open and it all came out :( i refused the appoinment and said i would ring his secretary, that would mean 11 months since my last mc to sort out a stupid septum. i am so angry and upset. 

i just wasnt expecting her to say that today, then to top if off even more as im walking out i asked if there was any scarring,her reply "yes but what we do about it is the question". prior to informing me of the scarring she told me to go ahead and try. 

im getting upset reliving the scenario

so my plan is to get on the phone next week, demand a 3d scan in the fertility unit as they are open appointments, they booked my last 3d scan on cd1 of my cycle, im only cd13 today and they have open appt due to ivf. 

im dreading ringing as i know i will get upset again, the just piss me around constantly 

tomorrow is another day :) xxxx


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## mandy1971

Hope39 said:


> oh god dont, im really really dark, olive skinned, dark hair the lot, my moustache is bad enough as it is without more.
> 
> in answer to your question as to how i am....................... totally and utterly f'd off. i went for my hystocospy today to check the septate surgery was successful and make sure no scarring......... the consultant turns round after the procedure and
> says "you still have a septum there so you need to see your rmc consultant again".
> 
> she walked out of the room so the nurses were making me get up out the chair to get dressed while the clamp thing was still inside me, ouch.
> 
> i was in tears by the time i had got dressed to go sit with the consultant to discuss.
> 
> Im then told the earliest rmc appointment is feb, well you can imagine, the floodgates open and it all came out :( i refused the appoinment and said i would ring his secretary, that would mean 11 months since my last mc to sort out a stupid septum. i am so angry and upset.
> 
> i just wasnt expecting her to say that today, then to top if off even more as im walking out i asked if there was any scarring,her reply "yes but what we do about it is the question". prior to informing me of the scarring she told me to go ahead and try.
> 
> im getting upset reliving the scenario
> 
> so my plan is to get on the phone next week, demand a 3d scan in the fertility unit as they are open appointments, they booked my last 3d scan on cd1 of my cycle, im only cd13 today and they have open appt due to ivf.
> 
> im dreading ringing as i know i will get upset again, the just piss me around constantly
> 
> tomorrow is another day :) xxxx

Oh no hope that's awful.. You poor thing... How can it still be ther did she even explain why.? 
And she said you could ttc how do you feel about that ? Do you think maybe the scar tissue might help an embryo implant easier ( remember my biopsy and quenby said to take advantage of the fertility boost from it) ? 
You've been so patient this past year and really as you say you dont deserve another set back....


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## Hope39

If the egg tries to implant on scar tissue them game over again I believe, I could be wrong but someone I know had 6mc, had her scar tissue removed and bingo had a baby, the scar tissue was the problem for her. 

The lady that did hysto today didn't do the surgery so she couldn't answer any questions I had. Maybe he left a bit so didn't get too close too uterus wall incase he damaged it. He did it on cd27 of all days when lining was thick

I'm guessing here though, I can't believe I got go back again :(


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## petitpas

Oh hope, that sounds really crummy :( I hope a few tears on the phone to the secretary will get you some help.

Mandy, that's great news about the strong heartbeat! Keeping everything crossed here...
As for the heartburn, that could be the steroids but it could also be the pregnancy. I had a bottle of gaviscon by my bed all through my pregnancy, well after stopping the roids!

As for the weight gain, ignore it. You know that is the the least of your worries! Steroids make you hungry, retain water and especially put on trunkal weight (tummy and chest area though strangely not boobs). Once you wean off the steroids you'll notice a huge difference! My weight plateaued for a while in second tri while my body normalised again. My breasts filled out again, my face lost its puffiness and finally, the flab turned into a hard bump. Seriously, look after yourself and ignore or just laugh at the strange things going on at the moment :haha:


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## mandy1971

Thanks Petipas... That's reassuring to know the weight will drop off. I've done literally no exercise for the past 3 weeks 2 weeks holiday then a week off sick fro work due to the bleed... So I've been burning no excess cals.... Did you do zany form of exercise through your pregnancy.? I am thinking that I may start swimming at least twice a week..?


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## mandy1971

Hope39 said:


> If the egg tries to implant on scar tissue them game over again I believe, I could be wrong but someone I know had 6mc, had her scar tissue removed and bingo had a baby, the scar tissue was the problem for her.
> 
> The lady that did hysto today didn't do the surgery so she couldn't answer any questions I had. Maybe he left a bit so didn't get too close too uterus wall incase he damaged it. He did it on cd27 of all days when lining was thick
> 
> I'm guessing here though, I can't believe I got go back again :(

Believe you will have this rainbow baby hope..... You've done everything you possibly can to get to that point.... I really do think you will fall pregnant and hold onto a baby.... It is your time. Xxxx


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## Hope39

I do believe it will happen, one day, i have to believe that to keep me going xx


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## petitpas

Hope, you'll get your rainbow! 

Mandy, my steroid consultant said no swimming (I think he meant in first tri). My local consultant preferred me to stop everything and take it easy. Later on, everyone agreed I could do yoga so I did. Twice a week pregnancy yoga until two days before having J and lots of walking. I felt great right up to the end! I'm not the fittest person normally if that helps ;)


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## LoveandSeven

Hello everybody, 

I'm new here & am hoping you could give me some advice if possible. 

Just a little run down; I had two consecutive early miscarriages (around 6weeks) last year, one in January and the other in May. After the second loss my then doctor gave my husband and I all these tests and it appeared that my Antinuclear Antibody levels were 2560 and my Antiphospholipid Antibody level was 11H. From conducting my own research, I realised that these high amounts were most probably the reasons for the pregnancy losses. 

Fast forward to today, in preparation to TTC in a couple months, I went along to my appointment at the Mercy Hospital in Melbourne to see if they could help. In turn, the doctor told me that "research" has shown that the antinuclear antibody level has no affect on pregnancy or pregnancy loss and my antiphospholipid antibody level isn't really of any concern seeing as it's "only" 11. Her advice was to begin taking baby aspirin as of ovulation. 

Am I wrong to feel as though this doctor is incorrect? Should I seek another opinion? And does anybody know where they would help me in Melbourne?

Sorry for the long post! Hope somebody can help :flower:[/SIZE]


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## Hope39

I didnt want to read and run

Im afraid i dont know anything about ana levels or the levels for asp

Im also uk based so am not familiar with doctors in melbourne

sorry xx


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## Hope39

Hope39 said:


> I do believe it will happen, one day, i have to believe that to keep me going xx

Just seen my post i made in december, now im 25 weeks :)


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## petitpas

Hope, that's brilliant news! Happy belated v-day :happydance::cake:

Loveandseven, I don't know about exact ANA numbers but pregnancy can skew results so the recommendation normally is to wait for six weeks after a loss before testing. Even if the test comes back in the positive range a second blood test is ordered another six weeks later as the first might just be a temporary fluctuation. When two tests come back 'positive' then you are diagnosed with antiphospholipid syndrome and will need baby aspirin and daily heparin injections (such as clexane).

On the positive side, even though going through two losses is heartbreaking, statistically the majority off women will go on to have a successful pregnancy without any treatment so I hope this will be the case for you. 

Your doctor suggested baby aspirin and I think that is a good idea at this point. Aspirin has benefits such as preventing pre-eclampsia and it is part of the treatment for recurrent pregnancy loss, too.

I would also suggest you post your questions as a separate thread as this one is a bit old and was started to discuss a specific treatment. There aren't many of us active on bnb anymore. You should find that more people give you feedback that way. Good luck with everything, hon!


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