# anyone else a judgemental parent?



## juicyfruity

I know I know we aren't meant to judge but I honestly can't help it sometimes! I'd never say it unless it was something REALLY over the top but I do judge the woman from my antenatal class who fed her baby from 12 weeks chocolate icing and other solids. I do judge the mother who is screaming at her toddler such nasty things ("I WISH YOU HAD NEVER BEEN BORN YOU LITTLE SHIT!") I feel guilty for being so judgemental. In some cases I rationalise and I know they could just be haivng a bad day I know that I'm not in their shoes that i have no idea but I do find myself thinking nasty thoughts every now and again.

A friend of mine says "there is no wrong way to parent" and "as long as you love them you are doing the right thing" but I personally do NOT feel CIO is right in any circumstance. I feel saying there is no wrong way to parent opens a can of worms (is hitting a right way to parent? absuing your child!?). I also feel there needs to be more than just love to bring up a child. love is a foundation but I am sure lots of mothers who had lost it and hit or shaken their babies did love them it was that moment of anger or frustration etc.

In my refelctive mood today I think we are all judgmental creatures and I know I am judged for my parenting just as I judge too. I don't think it is the judging that is the problem but how are respond to others. To the mum who CIOs "OMG I CANT BELIEVE YOU DO THAT HORRIBLE THING" is not the right way to respond "I can only imagine how hard it must be feeling like you have to resort to letting your baby scream is" and I also think so many mums are uneducated and suckered in by things older relatives did. 

Instead of being taught to trust our inner instinct as a parent we are being taught to look from books what is already built right into our nature. Sorry for the novel just feeling very reflective!


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## Rachel_C

I think there's a difference between judging and being judgemental. Judging things is part of every day living, it's how we apply our past experience to the present situation. Get bitten by a stripy spider in your cave? Avoid the next one you see as you've judged it dangerous. See a childminder you're trying out screaming at a toddler? Judge them not worth trusting your child with. We don't always have time to weigh up all of the evidence... supermarket shopping would take a very long time if we had to research every single purchase!

I think being judgemental is more about how you treat people based on your judgement (I'm sure that's not the dictionary definition, but how I think it works in practice) e.g. if you see a mum with a little boy and overhear her say "Yeah, I gave him a really good slap then shut him in the bedroom" you might instantly judge that you should keep an eye on her if she's near your kids. She could be talking about the burglar who crept into her house, she single-handedly fought him off and then locked him in a bedroom to await the Police... but your snap judgement is just to keep your kid away. I don't think that's judgemental. To go up to her and tell her she's a terrible mother who must have her children taken away would be judgemental, IMO, because it's letting her know you've judged her. So yes, exactly what you said - ". I don't think it is the judging that is the problem but how are respond to others."


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## MommyJogger

I know I am-- but at least I'm honest about it. If current research is up in the air or unclear, I'll respect that and be clear that it's just my opinion and I don't care whether people actually follow the same practice (eg. cloth diapering-- def better for the environment, but I haven't actually seen research showing improved child outcome from cd, so whatevs). But stuff like bf, cio, early weaning (both definitions of weaning), anything people are implementing and making far-reaching assumptions about the efficacy of with no good supportive research, I'm quite vocal and judgey about. Most specifically if it's something a parent chooses for their own convenience and not the child's well-being. I tend to stay off threads where people are doing something other than asking for advice choosing whether to do it or not (for example, I won't comment on a thread where someone is asking about cio experiences that cio is harmful and ineffective long-term, but I might pm them ISIS or EP sleep research and let them know wio is an option if they'd like to consider without bluntly stating that I think cio sucks), but I feel perfectly within reason to be vocal on the "should I cio or wio" threads and the "rice in my 4 mo old's bottle?" threads.


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## tokyo

I must admit I'm more judgemental than I'd like. Ive always been a 'live and let live' kind of person and feel that lofe has a different path for everyone and that's ok. However, aince becoming a mum and choosing a parenting approach thats different to most people around me I do find that I have judgey thoughts far more. They creep up on me without me realising and I find I have to catch myself. It does make me feel like a bad person sometimes....


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## Tiff

I think we all judge from time to time. I certainly think to myself things that granted I'd probably never verbalize. :flower:

The problem with judging though, is that you never know the full story. I've found that since Claire has been diagnosed with Autism I try not to judge as much. Mainly because of the sheer amount of judgement that I now personally receive. She's sensitive to loud noises, yet I never know when it'll set her off.

Back in the late winter we were at the mall, and passed by a Dairy Queen/Orange Julius store. They have blenders to mix stuff and the noise set her off. So she covers her ears, crouches down to the ground, throws her head back and stars to HOWL. Poor thing! :( 

But of course, because we were at the Disney store before so I'm holding a Disney bag, plus she happens to lose it right in front of an ice cream store there were SO many people who "tut tut'd" me and mutter about how they never let THEIR kids act like that. 

I get torn, because I want to shout at them that she has Autism... she's not throwing a hissy fit because she wants ice cream. She's having a sensory meltdown and can't physically handle the noise. Yet most times I don't, because I personally feel that if they're that quick to judge my parenting for the 3 mins it takes to walk by us... then chances are they aren't going to care if I say something. 

That's just me though. :flower: Like I mentioned, I definitely 100% judge even though I hate when it is done to me. Its been a real overhaul of my perspective to try and look past what is going on and to accept that there might be other sides of the coin I don't know. :)


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## lozzy21

I do, at a wedding yesterday and a bloke was giving a 4 month old beer. It wasent even his kid. I judged him but I judged the mother even more for not saying anything.


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## Tiff

A beer? Really????? :( :cry:

I wouldn't be able to be held accountable for my actions if someone tried to feed Claire beer. I really wouldn't. :nope:


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## Bean66

Errrrm it's funny. I'm quite judgemental. I try not to be. I don't understand why lpeople use rice cereals, give babies juice, CIO (except in desperation) etc.

But.......

My LO has played with a pint glass with beer in it and has had a teeny bit of wine off my finger. It really isn't going to harm her, neither is a tiny sip (although I wouldn't do this). I can fully see why some might frown. Weirdly I'd never let her have a sip of coke or chocolate. I won't let anyone put anything on her skin that isn't chemical free. It's funny how we rationalise things.

Off to feel very bad and judged............ ;-)


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## lozzy21

Alcohol can and will harm a child's liver, especially one that young. Not to mention all the shit on his fingers as he was a smoker.


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## LegoHouse

I think we all have opinions in our heads, some of them are just best left there lol :)


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## MommyJogger

LegoHouse said:


> I think we all have opinions in our heads, some of them are just best left there lol :)

Tbh, that bothers me (not you, the 'keep it to yourself' culture). It feels fake. I'd rather know what people think than to deal with facades. If someone thinks I'm wrong, I want them to tell me so I can evaluate their opinion and either disregard them as an idiot or grow as a person and better myself. Esp here. I could understand if we were all coworkers and had to get along each day to function or we were family that had to smile at each other at reunions, but if you can't exchange honest opinions with strangers on the internet, then where, lol?


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## LegoHouse

People still have feelings the other side of your computer though. Just because you'll never meet someone doesn't mean you should feel free to make them feel bad x


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## Twister

I think we all judge people, it's in our nature and anyone who says they don't judge is lying lol.

However I do think there is a time and a place to express opinions on certain things. I don't think there's anything fake about keeping certain things to yourself, I see it as being conscientious. It's important to be considerate of how your words may affect others even if they are on the other side of a computer screen. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but sometimes those opinions can be hurtful, especially if they're worded as such.


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## MommyJogger

LegoHouse said:


> People still have feelings the other side of your computer though. Just because you'll never meet someone doesn't mean you should feel free to make them feel bad x

I guess I just don't get that. I feel bad when I make a mistake. I would never want someone to not point out the mistake and allow me to keep making it just so that I won't feel bad. If they tell me I've made a mistake and I still think I haven't made a mistake after considering their argument, then I don't feel bad. If I see that they're correct, I feel bad, but also grateful that I'll no longer make that mistake, so it's worth it to me. :shrug:


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## Twister

There's a difference between pointing out someone's mistake in a well intentioned way and expressing an opinion inappropriately or in a way which is going to hurt someone's feelings though.


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## MommyJogger

Twister said:


> There's a difference between pointing out someone's mistake in a well intentioned way and expressing an opinion inappropriately or in a way which is going to hurt someone's feelings though.

Yeah, but the problem is that so many people have different levels of what that means. I see a ton of posts on BnB get told they're being judgemental for simply expressing an opinion. I don't think it's fair to say it's going to hurt someone's feelings unless a comment is directly addressed to a person. I feel like we should be able to say "I think this practice is shitty" without people personalizing it as saying "I think you're a shitty mom for participating in this practice".


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## Twister

There are ways of expressing an opinion so that it doesn't get people's backs up though. If I turned around and said "I think cloth nappies are crap and pointless", you can guarentee that its going to ruffle some feathers, whereas if I said "I don't like cloth nappies, they're not for me" then it's less likely to annoy and offend people. An opinion doesn't have to be directed AT someone for it to be offensive, It's all in the way you put your opinion across, IMO anyway.

(I don't actually think that by the way, just the first example that popped into my head)


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## MommyJogger

Twister said:


> There are ways of expressing an opinion so that it doesn't get people's backs up though. If I turned around and said *"I think cloth nappies are crap and pointless"*, you can guarentee that its going to ruffle some feathers, whereas if I said "I don't like cloth nappies, they're not for me" then it's less likely to annoy and offend people. An opinion doesn't have to be directed AT someone for it to be offensive, It's all in the way you put your opinion across, IMO anyway.
> 
> (I don't actually think that by the way, just the first example that popped into my head)

I honestly don't see how this could offend anyone. :shrug: Either it's true or it's not. If it's true, then it shouldn't offend people to hear the truth. If it's not true, then it shouldn't offend people because it's not true. Unless it's an unchangeable quality like "red hair looks like crap" or "finger toes are gross", I just think it's dumb to take it personally. Either you're secure in your choices because you know they were the best choices you could have made in your situation or you're not because they weren't. If you are, things won't offend you. If you're not, you should maybe consider listening to other opinions and reevaluating for future decisions. (And I don't mean the literal 'you', as in 'Twister', but 'you' as in the nebulous concept of a non-self)


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## Noelle610

I have had times when I've felt insecure in my choices, but not necessarily because they were the wrong ones. When I suffered with PND i questioned myself a lot. 

I don't disagree with you mommy jogger that we should have conversations and be open. But I think the key is approaching with empathy versus shock or disdain. It's the kind thing to do and more likely to be received rather than shut down. As Rachel said, it's natural to judge, it's what you do with it that counts.


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## Noelle610

I guess what I'm saying is that people do really stupid things, but having been in a dark place I can almost always understand why they might be desperate, uneducated or scared enough to do them.


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## felix555

MommyJogger said:


> Twister said:
> 
> 
> There are ways of expressing an opinion so that it doesn't get people's backs up though. If I turned around and said *"I think cloth nappies are crap and pointless"*, you can guarentee that its going to ruffle some feathers, whereas if I said "I don't like cloth nappies, they're not for me" then it's less likely to annoy and offend people. An opinion doesn't have to be directed AT someone for it to be offensive, It's all in the way you put your opinion across, IMO anyway.
> 
> (I don't actually think that by the way, just the first example that popped into my head)
> 
> I honestly don't see how this could offend anyone. :shrug: Either it's true or it's not. If it's true, then it shouldn't offend people to hear the truth. If it's not true, then it shouldn't offend people because it's not true. Unless it's an unchangeable quality like "red hair looks like crap" or "finger toes are gross", I just think it's dumb to take it personally. Either you're secure in your choices because you know they were the best choices you could have made in your situation or you're not because they weren't. If you are, things won't offend you. If you're not, you should maybe consider listening to other opinions and reevaluating for future decisions. (And I don't mean the literal 'you', as in 'Twister', but 'you' as in the nebulous concept of a non-self)Click to expand...

It's not so black and white though for instance what about people that tried to breastfeed but couldn't and get judged for formula feeding? What about moms that work due to choice or need that get judged for going back to work? What about moms that wanted a natural birth but couldn't have one for one reason or another, some people still judge them for it.

those are just examples of things you might have planned but the reality was different. knowing you didn't breastfeed out of choice doesn't make it easier to read things like "formula is poison" 

I judge! I judge sanctimommies that think they've been put on this earth to enlighten us and educate us on how to raise our own children. we all mostly have the internet and know how to work Google and don't really need blog links quoting the dangers of early weaning (for example) most people that make choices know the score and choose to do it anyway ... who are we actually to educate them?


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## Rachel_C

I think a lot of the 'judgement' is actually coming from a good place. It's so incredibly common to have people saying "Why do you care what I do with my child? You look after yours and keep your nose out. Stop judging me." but when you feel strongly about something, say that all children need to wear yellow because studies have shown it makes them 500% happier (made up btw, I'm not making the same mistake of saying something I actually believe as an example again!) and you do care about all children, it's hard to see somebody reading the evidence and then dismissing it. I really can't understand it when people think you shouldn't care what other people do with their children. So when people feel judged, I think it helps to remember that people are only judging what you've done because they care about your kids. Wrong as they may be in what they believe, I would never ever be offended at somebody caring about my children.


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## MommyJogger

felix555 said:


> MommyJogger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twister said:
> 
> 
> There are ways of expressing an opinion so that it doesn't get people's backs up though. If I turned around and said *"I think cloth nappies are crap and pointless"*, you can guarentee that its going to ruffle some feathers, whereas if I said "I don't like cloth nappies, they're not for me" then it's less likely to annoy and offend people. An opinion doesn't have to be directed AT someone for it to be offensive, It's all in the way you put your opinion across, IMO anyway.
> 
> (I don't actually think that by the way, just the first example that popped into my head)
> 
> I honestly don't see how this could offend anyone. :shrug: Either it's true or it's not. If it's true, then it shouldn't offend people to hear the truth. If it's not true, then it shouldn't offend people because it's not true. Unless it's an unchangeable quality like "red hair looks like crap" or "finger toes are gross", I just think it's dumb to take it personally. Either you're secure in your choices because you know they were the best choices you could have made in your situation or you're not because they weren't. If you are, things won't offend you. If you're not, you should maybe consider listening to other opinions and reevaluating for future decisions. (And I don't mean the literal 'you', as in 'Twister', but 'you' as in the nebulous concept of a non-self)Click to expand...
> 
> 1. It's not so black and white though for instance what about people that tried to breastfeed but couldn't and get judged for formula feeding?
> 2. What about moms that work due to choice or need that get judged for going back to work?
> 3. What about moms that wanted a natural birth but couldn't have one for one reason or another, some people still judge them for it.
> 
> those are just examples of things you might have planned but the reality was different.
> 4. knowing you didn't breastfeed out of choice doesn't make it easier to read things like "formula is poison"
> 
> I judge! I judge sanctimommies that think they've been put on this earth to enlighten us and educate us on how to raise our own children. we all mostly have the internet and know how to work Google and don't really need blog links quoting the dangers of early weaning (for example)
> 5. most people that make choices know the score and choose to do it anyway ... who are we actually to educate them?Click to expand...

1. I think it's super important for people in #1 to get the education they need to succeed with any other children they have, whether they plan more or may accidentally have more. I judge these women as having needed more help, not as having purposefully made bad choices for their children. That's why in my first post, I specified judging people who make choices out of convenience, rather than necessity.

2 and 3 apply to me, actually, and I'm not offended by judgement for either of them. I made some bad choices. I didn't realize before children just how bad the state of childcare really was. And I wasn't educated enough to call BS and realize I would be perfectly safe refusing the labor augmentation that caused my intervention cascade. I'm actually grateful every time I see research or discussion on either of these things. If I've done something to hurt my child, I want to know the extent of the damage. They deserve at least as much for me to face the consequences of the decisions I've made when they're the ones that have to live with it.

4 and 5. I'm going to try really hard not to use words that will get me banned for life. If these women knew the score and made the decision anyway, I don't see how anything a random person on the internet could say to make them feel guilty if they don't already feel guilty. 
Either you do the absolute best you can for your child in your situation and with your knowledge and you shouldn't feel guilty or you purposefully made a decision not in your child's best interest. If it was the second, chances are you feel guilty no matter what and saying "this person on the internet made me feel bad" is a scapegoat you use to displace the source of your guilt and avoid facing that you caused your own bad feelings through a poor decision.


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## Noelle610

Surely there is a difference between feeling guilt and having one's feelings hurt though? I don't feel guilty about ending the madness of exclusive pumping at 6 months and moving fully to formula. But if a good friend or someone I respect on BnB told me I was making a decision that was detrimental to my child I would be hurt. Maybe I'm too sensitive though; wouldn't be the first time :haha:

I do understand what you're saying MommyJogger and really agree with the premise, but I also think there's a gray area. For every study that proves xyz, there's one that says abc. The facts on there, but it's also how they're interpreted. As I've learned on BnB it's not always easy to debate only with research. There's no way to deny that raising children is very much an emotional topic and it does factor in when we have conversations.


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## Rachel_C

Noelle610 said:


> Surely there is a difference between feeling guilt and having one's feelings hurt though? I don't feel guilty about ending the madness of exclusive pumping at 6 months and moving fully to formula. But if a good friend or someone I respect on BnB told me I was making a decision that was detrimental to my child I would be hurt. Maybe I'm too sensitive though; wouldn't be the first time :haha:

How do you get around that though? If the evidence is there that children wearing green are miserable but you only have green clothes for your kids and can't afford new ones, does that mean nobody should ever say "Children in green are 800% more likely to be miserable" in case you feel hurt? What about the mums who haven't bought clothes yet? If nobody talks about it, they might buy green!!! :cry: For me there is a big difference between somebody saying "Green makes kids miserable" and "You have made your children miserable by making them wear green". The first is a fact (or if it's not something proven, a statement of belief e.g. "I believe wearing green makes children sad") and is not directed at an individual. The second is directed so could be hurtful, but I don't see why the first is. I understand that it may remind people of their own guilt or sadness, but it isn't a hurtful statement.


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## Noelle610

Rachel_C said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> Surely there is a difference between feeling guilt and having one's feelings hurt though? I don't feel guilty about ending the madness of exclusive pumping at 6 months and moving fully to formula. But if a good friend or someone I respect on BnB told me I was making a decision that was detrimental to my child I would be hurt. Maybe I'm too sensitive though; wouldn't be the first time :haha:
> 
> How do you get around that though? If the evidence is there that children wearing green are miserable but you only have green clothes for your kids and can't afford new ones, does that mean nobody should ever say "Children in green are 800% more likely to be miserable" in case you feel hurt? What about the mums who haven't bought clothes yet? If nobody talks about it, they might buy green!!! :cry: For me there is a big difference between somebody saying "Green makes kids miserable" and "You have made your children miserable by making them wear green". The first is a fact (or if it's not something proven, a statement of belief e.g. "I believe wearing green makes children sad") and is not directed at an individual. The second is directed so could be hurtful, but I don't see why the first is. I understand that it may remind people of their own guilt or sadness, but it isn't a hurtful statement.Click to expand...

You're right and it is a hard balance. I think it all goes back to how it's phrased. Are we talking to people with empathy and engaging them in a conversation? Or are we subconsciously acting superior with a need to be "right". I confess I am guilty of the latter from time to time. 

Note: I'm also trying to steer clear of using real-life examples and its killing me :haha:


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## MommyJogger

Noelle610 said:


> You're right and it is a hard balance. I think it all goes back to how it's phrased. Are we talking to people with empathy and engaging them in a conversation? *Or are we subconsciously acting superior with a need to be "right".* I confess I am guilty of the latter from time to time.
> 
> Note: I'm also trying to steer clear of using real-life examples and its killing me :haha:

That's just it, though. If we're just talking strictly scientific fact, for a lot of the stuff that comes up, there _is _a "right" and a "best" way. If anyone wanted to feel superior, we would just keep our mouths shut, let people participate in "bad" practices without challenge, and we could feel superior all we wanted without saying anything. Wanting to feel superior implies that you want to be doing something better than someone else. But opening your mouth and challenging a practice is the exact opposite-- you would rather everyone be doing the best thing and everyone be on the same level and then no one could feel superior. 
And I've asked this a million times and it's always taken really offensively, but why are so many people more concerned with a mother's 'feelings' than what's in the best interest of the baby?


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## Larkspur

MommyJogger said:


> And I've asked this a million times and it's always taken really offensively, but why are so many people more concerned with a mother's 'feelings' than what's in the best interest of the baby?

Because the science when it comes to most parenting practices is not really that hard and fast. 

It's a matter of relatively small degrees of benefit or risk most of the time. Formula feeding is in no way a death sentence. There's varying evidence on the ideal time to introduce solids. Studies go back and forth on the "risks" of crying-based sleep methods. (I have read and read on that particular topic and I'm damned if I know what the science _really_ says.) So at the end of the day, a mother's feelings DO count because I think most parents actually base their decisions not on spending hundreds of hours attempting to ascertain a final word on the science, but on a gut feeling about what is going to work best for their child _and family_ based on the evidence they've seen. 

So while I have made choices on the way I feed my child, talk to my child, deal with my child's sleep, play with my child, the amount of television I do (or rather don't) allow my child to watch, how I discipline my child, vaccinate my child, etc etc etc, I don't really think it's my business to inform other people that I have chosen THE BEST way and that if they're doing any different, they're damaging their child (or participating in a kind of child abuse). Because frankly, real-life evidence doesn't necessarily back me up. Science gives a band of probabilities for outcomes; so there are formula-fed, CIO, TV-watching, early-weaned kids out there who are fine, and healthy and happy and loved by their parents. They are not deprived or damaged.

Deprived and damaged are kids who are growing up with no shoes for school, with jug-cord marks on their bodies, with no books in their home, no breakfast, a key to let themselves in because nobody's home when they get there, a knowledge of sexuality well before they're ready, kids who have takeaways for every meal, untreated scabies or eczema, who are left to make their own dinner because their parents are drunk, who live in homes where parents smoke a couple of packs a day inside. These kids really exist and I don't see a lot of tears shed for them in the Natural Parenting section. 

Honestly, I believe in a natural parenting approach but I just think a lot of people who are really strident about how everyone should be following a certain approach or philosophy or they're making "bad choices" and damaging or abusing their children need to get some fucking perspective. You can call me judgmental for thinking THAT.


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## Noelle610

Larkspur said it better than I could. I'm concerned with a moms feelings for several reasons. Primarily, if there really is a "right" way, you're not going to convince someone of it by hurting their feelings. In an ideal world, we are all open minded and selfless but that's not reality. Second, mothers are people too. Being a mom is a terribly hard job and I feel it's important to have support and understanding. It's not placing a mothers feelings above a baby's well being, but knowing that they're very much intertwined.


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## Twister

Larkspur, you worded it better than I ever could.=D&gt;

Mum is a person to and I hate how some people seem to think that her feelings aren't important as well. It's difficult to be the best parent you can be if you're not entirely happy with the way you are parenting and are only parenting that way because you feel you 'have to'.


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## MommyJogger

Larkspur said:


> MommyJogger said:
> 
> 
> And I've asked this a million times and it's always taken really offensively, but why are so many people more concerned with a mother's 'feelings' than what's in the best interest of the baby?
> 
> Because the science when it comes to most parenting practices is not really that hard and fast.
> 
> It's a matter of relatively small degrees of benefit or risk most of the time. Formula feeding is in no way a death sentence. There's varying evidence on the ideal time to introduce solids. Studies go back and forth on the "risks" of crying-based sleep methods. (I have read and read on that particular topic and I'm damned if I know what the science _really_ says.) So at the end of the day, a mother's feelings DO count because I think most parents actually base their decisions not on spending hundreds of hours attempting to ascertain a final word on the science, but on a gut feeling about what is going to work best for their child _and family_ based on the evidence they've seen.
> 
> So while I have made choices on the way I feed my child, talk to my child, deal with my child's sleep, play with my child, the amount of television I do (or rather don't) allow my child to watch, how I discipline my child, vaccinate my child, etc etc etc, I don't really think it's my business to inform other people that I have chosen THE BEST way and that if they're doing any different, they're damaging their child (or participating in a kind of child abuse). Because frankly, real-life evidence doesn't necessarily back me up. Science gives a band of probabilities for outcomes; so there are formula-fed, CIO, TV-watching, early-weaned kids out there who are fine, and healthy and happy and loved by their parents. They are not deprived or damaged.
> 
> Deprived and damaged are kids who are growing up with no shoes for school, with jug-cord marks on their bodies, with no books in their home, no breakfast, a key to let themselves in because nobody's home when they get there, a knowledge of sexuality well before they're ready, kids who have takeaways for every meal, untreated scabies or eczema, who are left to make their own dinner because their parents are drunk, who live in homes where parents smoke a couple of packs a day inside. These kids really exist and I don't see a lot of tears shed for them in the Natural Parenting section.
> 
> Honestly, I believe in a natural parenting approach but I just think a lot of people who are really strident about how everyone should be following a certain approach or philosophy or they're making "bad choices" and damaging or abusing their children need to get some fucking perspective. You can call me judgmental for thinking THAT.Click to expand...

Just because something isn't a 'death sentence' makes it okay? Because the science is actually pretty clear on some of these topics. I didn't realize that the goal was to strive for the minimum care to avoid what is legally considered abuse or neglect. Seriously, is it okay to smack my child and say "well, there are children who get beaten with metal rods, so this isn't really that bad"? That would never fly and it shouldn't. Just because it's not the worst of the worst shouldn't make it okay. :dohh:
And btw, the people in your example also use your technique to justify their behavior. I grew up with 2-3 smokers smoking inside the house at any given time. I'd ask them to quit or if I could at least go outside (I wasn't allowed out without them until I was older, so only went out when they wanted to) and I was called ungrateful because they put food on the table and there are kids out there whose parents get drunk and beat them. :shrug: Does that make what they did okay? No. Just like the people in your examples don't make purposefully putting your child in green clothing (is that the color that 'makes them depressed'?) a justifiable parenting choice.


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## Larkspur

MommyJogger said:


> Just because something isn't a 'death sentence' makes it okay? Because the science is actually pretty clear on some of these topics. I didn't realize that the goal was to strive for the minimum care to avoid what is legally considered abuse or neglect. Seriously, is it okay to smack my child and say "well, there are children who get beaten with metal rods, so this isn't really that bad"? That would never fly and it shouldn't. Just because it's not the worst of the worst shouldn't make it okay. :dohh:
> And btw, the people in your example also use your technique to justify their behavior. I grew up with 2-3 smokers smoking inside the house at any given time. I'd ask them to quit or if I could at least go outside (I wasn't allowed out without them until I was older, so only went out when they wanted to) and I was called ungrateful because they put food on the table and there are kids out there whose parents get drunk and beat them. :shrug: Does that make what they did okay? No. Just like the people in your examples don't make purposefully putting your child in green clothing (is that the color that 'makes them depressed'?) a justifiable parenting choice.

See, I don't understand why you would see it as a dichotomy between "the best, most absolutely ideal standard of care" (as decided by you) and "the minimum effort needed to avoid being sent to jail". That's... just not reality at all. That's not how the vast majority of people are parenting. 

Just because someone doesn't ascribe to every detail of what you've decided is the gold standard of care, it doesn't make them a shitty parent who can't be bothered to do "the best" for their kid, or an "idiot who can be disregarded" as you suggested in an earlier post. 

When I say formula isn't a death sentence, that's clearly an exaggeration, with the point being _it isn't even remotely like a death sentence_. I believe in breastfeeding being the optimal choice, and breastfeeding education and support for mums, but at the end of the day, yes, it actually IS okay to decide to feed your baby formula. It's not child abuse. It's not even neglect, or "the minimum standard of care needed to avoid jail". It's a choice made by millions of mums who on the whole are raising healthy, happy, loved and cherished children. I'm not saying "formula is okay because my doctor friend sometimes sees 10-month-old children who have been fed chocolate milk as their main drink for months and that's not even illegal either". I'm saying it's okay because it's actually OKAY. Not 'perfect', no, but it is fine, okay, acceptable, justifiable. Also, not really any of my fucking business.

You may believe that it's suboptimal for whatever very good or not quite so excellent reasons but at the end of the day, unless you're offering help and support to someone who wants it, I don't see how it makes the world any better to make such odiously extreme judgements on mums who've chosen differently to you.


----------



## MommyJogger

Larkspur said:


> 1. See, I don't understand why you would see it as a dichotomy between "the best, most absolutely ideal standard of care" (as decided by you) and "the minimum effort needed to avoid being sent to jail". That's... just not reality at all. That's not how the vast majority of people are parenting.
> 
> 2. Just because someone doesn't ascribe to every detail of what you've decided is the gold standard of care, it doesn't make them a shitty parent who can't be bothered to do "the best" for their kid, or an "idiot who can be disregarded" as you suggested in an earlier post.
> 
> 3. You may believe that it's suboptimal for whatever very good or not quite so excellent reasons but at the end of the day, unless you're offering help and support to someone who wants it, *I don't see how it makes the world any better* to make such odiously extreme judgements on mums who've chosen differently to you.

1. You brought up the dichotomy in your previous post when you justified certain parenting practices by the existence of abused and neglected children. I was responding to it. :shrug: 
2. I already said that I don't think it makes them a shitty parent. I specifically said that I can abhor a practice and think you shouldn't take part in it without thinking you're a shitty parent for taking part in it anyway.
2(1/2). I'm not even going to go into anything specific except green shirts because that's not what this thread is about, so I'm not going to respond to the bf paragraph.
3. I don't think making a judgement that "someone made a bad choice" is "odiously extreme". That's the whole point I'm trying to make is that I don't understand how someone can take me saying "I think this is wrong and there's a better choice" and say that I'm making an extreme judgement. It's not like I said "green shirt parents suck and should have their kids removed, stat". :shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:

ETA: Bolded: I don't see how it makes the world a better place to blow smoke up someone's behind and tell them "mommy knows best", "happy mommy, happy baby", and "every parenting choice is a good one as long as the parents love the child" when it's just not true.


----------



## Noelle610

I think there's a huge difference between blowing smoke up a moms ass and recognizing that there's no black and white "best way" in most aspects of parenting. Of course there are exceptions where the right thing is obvious and well evident in research, but a whole lot of it is a gray area.


----------



## Larkspur

MommyJogger said:


> 1. You brought up the dichotomy in your previous post when you justified certain parenting practices by the existence of abused and neglected children. I was responding to it. :shrug:

I wasn't "justifying certain parenting practices" because frankly I don't think they need justification, I was pointing out the irony of getting worked up about whether other mums choose CIO or cloth diapers or breastfeeding or babywearing or not when people rarely seem to get worked up about genuine neglect.



> 2. I already said that I don't think it makes them a shitty parent. I specifically said that I can abhor a practice and think you shouldn't take part in it without thinking you're a shitty parent for taking part in it anyway.

Seems like a semantic argument to me; I'm not sure how you expect tell someone that their choice is a "shitty practice that you abhor" and not have them take it personally, but maybe you're just a lot more Vulcan than most people.



> 3. I don't think making a judgement that "someone made a bad choice" is "odiously extreme". That's the whole point I'm trying to make is that I don't understand how someone can take me saying "I think this is wrong and there's a better choice" and say that I'm making an extreme judgement. It's not like I said "green shirt parents suck and should have their kids removed, stat". :shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:

You compared not making the same choices as you as "striving for the minimal level of care not considered abuse or neglect". I think there's a big spectrum of choices that fall into the area between 'wrong' and 'ideal'. 



> ETA: Bolded: I don't see how it makes the world a better place to blow smoke up someone's behind and tell them "mommy knows best", "happy mommy, happy baby", and "every parenting choice is a good one as long as the parents love the child" when it's just not true.

I never said any of these things so not sure what you're talking about.


----------



## Larkspur

Noelle610 said:


> I think there's a huge difference between blowing smoke up a moms ass and recognizing that there's no black and white "best way" in most aspects of parenting. Of course there are exceptions where the right thing is obvious and well evident in research, but a whole lot of it is a gray area.

Exactly. There's a big range of differences from 'responding instantly to every cry' to 'waiting a few moments to see whether baby will calm down by themselves' to 'letting baby work out its frustration in mum's arms' to 'letting baby work out its frustration in mum's presence' to 'checking in with baby periodically' to 'giving baby space without overstimulation of mum reappearing constantly' to 'leaving baby to howl until sick or exhausted' to 'ignoring baby for hours on end'. And there are shades of grey in between those too.


----------



## MommyJogger

Noelle610 said:


> I think there's a huge difference between blowing smoke up a moms ass and recognizing that there's no black and white "best way" in most aspects of parenting. Obviously there are exceptions where the right thing is obvious and well evident in research, but a whole lot of it is a gray area.

Which is why I stated that I'm specifically judgey about a few very clear things (and I think if I were to clarify my stance, as there are degrees to each of the things I've named, you wouldn't think me so immoderate. I won't, as I'd rather not give fuel to those undoubtedly clicking on the report post button) and only in circumstances when those things were chosen for parental convenience instead of practical necessity or 'failure' to achieve the better option.


----------



## Noelle610

MommyJogger said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> I think there's a huge difference between blowing smoke up a moms ass and recognizing that there's no black and white "best way" in most aspects of parenting. Obviously there are exceptions where the right thing is obvious and well evident in research, but a whole lot of it is a gray area.
> 
> Which is why I stated that I'm specifically judgey about a few very clear things (and I think if I were to clarify my stance, as there are degrees to each of the things I've named, you wouldn't think me so immoderate. I won't, as I'd rather not give fuel to those undoubtedly clicking on the report post button) and only in circumstances when those things were chosen for parental convenience instead of practical necessity or 'failure' to achieve the better option.Click to expand...

Understood. And I'd probably agree with you on these things.


----------



## Larkspur

In the case of the green clothing analogy, I guess you would say that if there are many shades of green and a range of differing interpretations of whether studies really do show it "causes" or "is correlated with" depression, how is it possible to say dressing children in green clothing is "wrong"? What about greeny-blue? What about patterns or a picture with a bit of green? Given that many kids wear green and to all independent observation appear fine, is it still wrong for them?


----------



## MommyJogger

Larkspur said:


> 1. I wasn't "justifying certain parenting practices" because frankly I don't think they need justification, I was pointing out the irony of getting worked up about whether other mums choose CIO or not when people rarely seem to get worked up about genuine neglect.
> 
> 2. Seems like a semantic argument to me; I'm not sure how you expect tell someone that their choice is a "shitty practice that you abhor" and not have them take it personally, but maybe you're just a lot more Vulcan than most people.
> 
> 3. You compared not making the same choices as you as "striving for the minimal level of care not considered abuse or neglect". I think there's a big spectrum of choices that fall into the area between 'wrong' and 'ideal'.
> 
> 4. I never said any of these things so not sure what you're talking about.

1. You never see anyone get worked up because no one ever comes here to ask what width rod everyone is using to beat their children with. It simply doesn't come up.

2. I guess I am a lot more Vulcan. I don't get offended in the least when someone suggests that extended breastfeeding is sexual abuse. Or that cloth diapering is disgusting and we're all swimming in poop. Because I know they're incorrect, so why should it bother me? 

3. No. I didn't. You said that there are abused kids and that I need some "fucking perspective" to see that the practices I don't agree with aren't that bad, implying I should instead be concerned about the abusive practices. I responded that a poor practice is not justifiable by the existence of worse practices. I certainly do not think that people who don't practice the same parenting as I do are shooting for "barely legal". 

4. I didn't mean to attribute those quotes to you specifically. They're simply recurring sentiments I see from people when they're talking to moms considering quitting bf because they're having a hard time or considering resorting to CIO when they're sleep deprived. I simply wanted to express my sentiment that those placations aren't helpful in the least in helping these women achieve the goals they set out for and instead it sets women up for failure by constructing the false pretense that the choice that seems 'easy' at the time is also the best choice for a child's physical and emotional well-being.


----------



## MommyJogger

Larkspur said:


> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I guess you would say that if there are many shades of green and a range of differing interpretations of whether studies really do show it "causes" or "is correlated with" depression, how is it possible to say dressing children in green clothing is "wrong"? What about greeny-blue? What about patterns or a picture with a bit of green? Given that many kids wear green and to all independent observation appear fine, is it still wrong for them?

In the case of the green clothing analogy, I'm going to be super judgey about the asshole that reads the studies, understands that if they dress their kid in green then there's a statistical probability that their child will be unhappy or have their long-term happiness affected, and then chooses to dress their kid in all frog green, all the time and paint their room green because the cheapest clothing is green and the cheapest paint is green and they would rather spend that money on monthly mani-pedis.


----------



## Larkspur

You know, I personally think we're just talking past each other so I give up. 

You apparently think I think things that I don't actually think, and I apparently think you think things you don't actualy think, so perhaps this is the best lesson of all in the value of not judging.


----------



## Larkspur

MommyJogger said:


> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I'm going to be super judgey about the asshole that reads the studies, understands that if they dress their kid in green then there's a statistical probability that their child will be unhappy or have their long-term happiness affected, and then chooses to dress their kid in all frog green, all the time and paint their room green because the cheapest clothing is green and the cheapest paint is green and they would rather spend that money on monthly mani-pedis.

If you think this person and/or situation exist in reality, by all means, judge away. I doubt they do, however.

* Just to be clear, I mean "in reality and in terms of whatever parenting practice you have in mind".


----------



## MommyJogger

Larkspur said:


> MommyJogger said:
> 
> 
> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I'm going to be super judgey about the asshole that reads the studies, understands that if they dress their kid in green then there's a statistical probability that their child will be unhappy or have their long-term happiness affected, and then chooses to dress their kid in all frog green, all the time and paint their room green because the cheapest clothing is green and the cheapest paint is green and they would rather spend that money on monthly mani-pedis.
> 
> If you think this person and/or situation exist in reality, by all means, judge away. I doubt they do, however.
> 
> * Just to be clear, I mean "in reality and in terms of whatever parenting practice you have in mind".Click to expand...

I actually have no idea what green shirt is supposed to stand for anymore.


----------



## felix555

So you we just assume parenting is a one size fits all thing and follow all these studies (which change by the day anyway)? 

Mommyjogger if a study came out tomorrow that proves that babies of SAHM's are 120% happier than babies of working moms? What do you do? Quit your job that instant? 

And what if you do that and a month later a study comes out that babies of working moms are actually 140% happier? Do you start working again?

I'm sorry I'm not going to just follow how other people believe I should raise my baby. I decide what's best for my baby I'm not the perfect parent but the day I am maybe I'll also get on my pedestal and preach to others how to parent and judge them if they don't. I'm assuming those that are judging are doing absolutely everything right?


----------



## Noelle610

Noelle610 said:


> Larkspur said it better than I could. I'm concerned with a moms feelings for several reasons. Primarily, if there really is a "right" way, you're not going to convince someone of it by hurting their feelings. In an ideal world, we are all open minded and selfless but that's not reality. Second, mothers are people too. Being a mom is a terribly hard job and I feel it's important to have support and understanding. It's not placing a mothers feelings above a baby's well being, but knowing that they're very much intertwined.




MommyJogger said:


> Larkspur said:
> 
> 
> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I guess you would say that if there are many shades of green and a range of differing interpretations of whether studies really do show it "causes" or "is correlated with" depression, how is it possible to say dressing children in green clothing is "wrong"? What about greeny-blue? What about patterns or a picture with a bit of green? Given that many kids wear green and to all independent observation appear fine, is it still wrong for them?
> 
> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I'm going to be super judgey about the asshole that reads the studies, understands that if they dress their kid in green then there's a statistical probability that their child will be unhappy or have their long-term happiness affected, and then chooses to dress their kid in all frog green, all the time and paint their room green because the cheapest clothing is green and the cheapest paint is green and they would rather spend that money on monthly mani-pedis.Click to expand...

Does this happen though? I don't see it regularly. I think it's more like, "We'll my mom dressed me in green and I turned out great". Basically a lack of education and lack of exposure to modern research. I think most parents *think* they're doing right by their kids.


----------



## MommyJogger

felix555 said:


> So you we just assume parenting is a one size fits all thing and follow all these studies (which change by the day anyway)?
> 
> Mommyjogger if a study came out tomorrow that proves that babies of SAHM's are 120% happier than babies of working moms? What do you do? Quit your job that instant?
> 
> And what if you do that and a month later a study comes out that babies of working moms are actually 140% happier? Do you start working again?
> 
> I'm sorry I'm not going to just follow how other people believe I should raise my baby. I decide what's best for my baby I'm not the perfect parent but the day I am maybe I'll also get on my pedestal and preach to others how to parent and judge them if they don't. I'm assuming those that are judging are doing absolutely everything right?

Alright, this is the last thing I'm going to say because you aren't listening. Do I judge someone about absolutely every little parenting detail? No. Do I think it's my way or no way? No. 
Not getting myself in trouble by using real life examples, but I will say that for certain practices: no. studies on many practices are not changing every day. They've been in consensus for a while now.
Did I ever say I was a perfect parent? Absolutely not. All I ever said was that it doesn't make sense to me for people to get offended when others say that certain parenting principles they practice are not in the baby's best interest. I'm not offended by someone saying to me that they think I'm harming my child's long-term happiness and capabilities by working. There's a lot of evidence that they're stating the truth. So why be offended by that?
And this is the kind of line I'm talking about: "I decide what's best for my baby". This is untrue. There are _objectively _things that are best for a baby. But those things aren't decided by mom. They're decided by physiology. Just because a mom 'decides' she likes green clothing better doesn't magically make it best for the baby to wear green.


----------



## Twister

Edited.


----------



## MommyJogger

Noelle610 said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> Larkspur said it better than I could. I'm concerned with a moms feelings for several reasons. Primarily, if there really is a "right" way, you're not going to convince someone of it by hurting their feelings. In an ideal world, we are all open minded and selfless but that's not reality. Second, mothers are people too. Being a mom is a terribly hard job and I feel it's important to have support and understanding. It's not placing a mothers feelings above a baby's well being, but knowing that they're very much intertwined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MommyJogger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Larkspur said:
> 
> 
> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I guess you would say that if there are many shades of green and a range of differing interpretations of whether studies really do show it "causes" or "is correlated with" depression, how is it possible to say dressing children in green clothing is "wrong"? What about greeny-blue? What about patterns or a picture with a bit of green? Given that many kids wear green and to all independent observation appear fine, is it still wrong for them?Click to expand...
> 
> In the case of the green clothing analogy, I'm going to be super judgey about the asshole that reads the studies, understands that if they dress their kid in green then there's a statistical probability that their child will be unhappy or have their long-term happiness affected, and then chooses to dress their kid in all frog green, all the time and paint their room green because the cheapest clothing is green and the cheapest paint is green *and they think green isn't actually that bad*, so would rather spend that money on monthly mani-pedis.Click to expand...
> 
> Does this happen though? I don't see it regularly. I think it's more like, "We'll my mom dressed me in green and I turned out great". Basically a lack of education and lack of exposure to modern research. I think most parents *think* they're doing right by their kids.Click to expand...

Does the bolded make it more realistic? It's actually closer to what I intended to get across. 
But once again, this debate started because I said I didn't understand why any of this means that people should get offended when someone tells them they're doing something wrong or harmful or whatever other word you want to use. So why is it so important to avoid hurting green-shirt-mom's feelings by keeping it to yourself when objectively it's the truth that she's willingly harming her baby through her ignorance/disbelief/whatever?


----------



## felix555

Maybe you're just not getting your point across then.


----------



## Noelle610

As I said before, it's not that I think you should refrain from educating them. I think you should do it kindly because they will be more receptive and they won't feel like shit... Which helps no one. Mothers are people. Have you ever felt like, "Wow, I feel so dumb. What a crappy mom I am for not knowing this?". I have. It just made me feel like crap and didn't encourage me to be a better parent.

It's not about pitting moms needs over baby's. it's about recognizing that they are intrinsically intertwined. I just can't be convinced otherwise on that.


----------



## Toms Mummy

I don't care how other people bring up their children. However it does upset me when I see a child cowering in front of their parents when they're being shouted at etc. Also, since having Tom I met lots of new mummy's when he was little but have slowly gravitated over the past couple of years towards those who parent similarly to me x


----------



## aliss

I think I used to be when Alex was very young but then I got over myself....


----------



## shorman

Bean66 said:


> Errrrm it's funny. I'm quite judgemental. I try not to be. I don't understand why lpeople use rice cereals, give babies juice, CIO (except in desperation) etc.
> 
> But.......
> 
> My LO has played with a pint glass with beer in it and has had a teeny bit of wine off my finger. It really isn't going to harm her, neither is a tiny sip (although I wouldn't do this). I can fully see why some might frown. Weirdly I'd never let her have a sip of coke or chocolate. I won't let anyone put anything on her skin that isn't chemical free. It's funny how we rationalise things.
> 
> Off to feel very bad and judged............ ;-)


Sorry I don't get even if its a tiny but in your finger why you giving your baby a lick if alcohol why did you kneed to do that a dyes I am judging you as u think that's totally inappropriate baby's and kids don't kneed to taste alcohol and as fir the playing with the pint with beer I am surprise you weren't worried about your lo breaking the glass and getting very hurt


----------



## Bean66

shorman said:


> Bean66 said:
> 
> 
> Errrrm it's funny. I'm quite judgemental. I try not to be. I don't understand why lpeople use rice cereals, give babies juice, CIO (except in desperation) etc.
> 
> But.......
> 
> My LO has played with a pint glass with beer in it and has had a teeny bit of wine off my finger. It really isn't going to harm her, neither is a tiny sip (although I wouldn't do this). I can fully see why some might frown. Weirdly I'd never let her have a sip of coke or chocolate. I won't let anyone put anything on her skin that isn't chemical free. It's funny how we rationalise things.
> 
> Off to feel very bad and judged............ ;-)
> 
> 
> Sorry I don't get even if its a tiny but in your finger why you giving your baby a lick if alcohol why did you kneed to do that a dyes I am judging you as u think that's totally inappropriate baby's and kids don't kneed to taste alcohol and as fir the playing with the pint with beer I am surprise you weren't worried about your lo breaking the glass and getting very hurtClick to expand...

Feel free to judge. 

When I say play with a pint glass I didn't actually mean play with a pint glass. I'm not that stupid. Someone else was holding it, she just wanted to put her hands on it too. 

I understand your point but my finger dipped in a glass then her sucking it is seriously not going to cause any harm. It was once. I doubt there was anything on my finger. It's not like I gave her a shot of brandy. I think judging me for doing it is fair. One of my favourite pictures of me with my dad is me sipping his Guinness. Go ahead judge my dad. It was a bit of fun, admittedly at my daughters expense. You can judge me for that. She loved the attention and being involved rather than us ignoring her in a pushchair.

There are plenty of toxic things people give and use n their children/babies daily. I choose not too. She lives a pretty non toxic existence. 

She probably gets more alcohol when I BF feed her after a glass of wine or when I had a glass of wine whilst pregnant. :thumbup:

Judge away.

Edited to add: this is not meant to sound aggressive. :flower:


----------



## lindseymw

Here are the only times I judge people:-

The parent that shouts "Chardonnay, Mercedes, Get your F-ing arse here NOW!"
The parent that is still wearing their leopard print pajamas when dropping the kids off at school

and judgemental parents......

Oh and parents that dress their kids in green instead of yellow (How could you!)

Apart from that, I don't really care whether they BF, FF, CC, CIO, use a pushchair, BW, co-sleep, cot sleep and any other minor differences between how I parent and they parent. I certainly don't try and 'educate' them.


----------



## Toms Mummy

lindseymw said:


> Here are the only times I judge people:-
> 
> The parent that shouts "Chardonnay, Mercedes, Get your F-ing arse here NOW!"
> The parent that is still wearing their leopard print pajamas when dropping the kids off at school
> 
> and judgemental parents......
> 
> Oh and parents that dress their kids in green instead of yellow (How could you!)
> 
> Apart from that, I don't really care whether they BF, FF, CC, CIO, use a pushchair, BW, co-sleep, cot sleep and any other minor differences between how I parent and they parent. I certainly don't try and 'educate' them.

:haha: You are you joking aren't you?..... Are you that Katie woman who was on Holly and Phil's show?


----------



## Toms Mummy

shorman said:


> Bean66 said:
> 
> 
> Errrrm it's funny. I'm quite judgemental. I try not to be. I don't understand why lpeople use rice cereals, give babies juice, CIO (except in desperation) etc.
> 
> But.......
> 
> My LO has played with a pint glass with beer in it and has had a teeny bit of wine off my finger. It really isn't going to harm her, neither is a tiny sip (although I wouldn't do this). I can fully see why some might frown. Weirdly I'd never let her have a sip of coke or chocolate. I won't let anyone put anything on her skin that isn't chemical free. It's funny how we rationalise things.
> 
> Off to feel very bad and judged............ ;-)
> 
> 
> Sorry I don't get even if its a tiny but in your finger why you giving your baby a lick if alcohol why did you kneed to do that a dyes I am judging you as u think that's totally inappropriate baby's and kids don't kneed to taste alcohol and as fir the playing with the pint with beer I am surprise you weren't worried about your lo breaking the glass and getting very hurtClick to expand...

The judgemental post here is more offensive to me..... If I heard you both talking about this at the school gates for example, then although I wouldn't side with the one who did the deed I would probably feel less judgmental towards her than to the one having a go at her.


----------



## lindseymw

Toms Mummy said:


> lindseymw said:
> 
> 
> Here are the only times I judge people:-
> 
> The parent that shouts "Chardonnay, Mercedes, Get your F-ing arse here NOW!"
> The parent that is still wearing their leopard print pajamas when dropping the kids off at school
> 
> and judgemental parents......
> 
> Oh and parents that dress their kids in green instead of yellow (How could you!)
> 
> Apart from that, I don't really care whether they BF, FF, CC, CIO, use a pushchair, BW, co-sleep, cot sleep and any other minor differences between how I parent and they parent. I certainly don't try and 'educate' them.
> 
> :haha: You are you joking aren't you?..... Are you that Katie woman who was on Holly and Phil's show?Click to expand...

Haha! The names don't bother me too much (although I would raise an eyebrow). It's the 'get your fucking arse here NOW!' i judge more on! (& yes I have heard someone shout those names with that 'instruction' afterwards....& yes I judged a bit).

With regards to going to School still in PJs....I'm sorry but how hard is it to chuck some clothes on before leaving the house? I know few Schools had to send a letter to every parent asking them to get dressed before dropping off their kids (it was in the local paper about it). 

There was a incident where a Supermarket chucked a woman out as she was wearing PJs...her defence....'but I had changed into my best PJs to go shopping'


----------



## Toms Mummy

lindseymw said:


> Toms Mummy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lindseymw said:
> 
> 
> Here are the only times I judge people:-
> 
> The parent that shouts "Chardonnay, Mercedes, Get your F-ing arse here NOW!"
> The parent that is still wearing their leopard print pajamas when dropping the kids off at school
> 
> and judgemental parents......
> 
> Oh and parents that dress their kids in green instead of yellow (How could you!)
> 
> Apart from that, I don't really care whether they BF, FF, CC, CIO, use a pushchair, BW, co-sleep, cot sleep and any other minor differences between how I parent and they parent. I certainly don't try and 'educate' them.
> 
> :haha: You are you joking aren't you?..... Are you that Katie woman who was on Holly and Phil's show?Click to expand...
> 
> Haha! The names don't bother me too much (although I would raise an eyebrow). It's the 'get your fucking arse here NOW!' i judge more on! (& yes I have heard someone shout those names with that 'instruction' afterwards....& yes I judged a bit).
> 
> With regards to going to School still in PJs....I'm sorry but how hard is it to chuck some clothes on before leaving the house? I know few Schools had to send a letter to every parent asking them to get dressed before dropping off their kids (it was in the local paper about it).
> 
> There was a incident where a Supermarket chucked a woman out as she was wearing PJs...her defence....'but I had changed into my best PJs to go shopping'Click to expand...

I once heard a mother tell her child to shut up or I'll rip your f**ing voice box out!..... To say I was shocked? Yes! I did judge, in my head!

I've heard about the woman in her pjs in a supermarket, you're right, it is crazy annd very lazy that people don't just get dressed for leaving the house!


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## maria2611

I guess I am a little judgemental. I just think that there are better ways of parenting than swearing at your kids, for an example.


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## Noelle610

maria2611 said:


> I guess I am a little judgemental. I just think that there are better ways of parenting than swearing at your kids, for an example.

LOL I think we'd all agree with you there! Even those of us who have done it on occasion ;)


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## TriChick

In my opinion (speaking from past personal experience), I've found that judging is a huge waste of time and energy that could be better spent on my child. As long as the child is properly cared for, it is none of my business how another mother raises the child that SHE carried and SHE birthed. Until that child spends 9 months in my womb, I have no more right to make decisions and judgement calls on their upbringing than their own mother does, simply because I read some scientific studies. I am not a "perfect" or "textbook" mother by any means, so I'm not quite sure where I would have gotten the notion that it was MY responsibility to educate other mothers on the "errors of their ways". For all I know, 20 years from now their child may be MUCH more well adjusted than mine. :shrug:


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