# vitamin k



## hmaz

I was wondering whether everyone is planning on their newborn being given vitamin k (either by injection or orally) our if anyone is considering refusing this. 

I'm not sure what to do yet, my son had the injection but after some research and thought this time round I'm not sure what to do. What are everyone's thoughts on vitamin


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## special_kala

we give it orally


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## MindUtopia

We did the injection. It was something I researched because I heard all the things about it being associated with childhood leukemia and whatnot. I'm a medical researcher myself, so I went and read all the studies that had been done on it and I wasn't convinced there was any reason to be concerned. The studies that did find associations where not convincing or rigorous at all and there is no real cause and effect relationship demonstrated. I'm also not personally convinced there is a real need for it, as I think there is some evidence that there is a reason why babies have low levels of vitamin K (and I read something not too long ago that babies with delayed cord clamping actually have much higher levels, so that might explain how this 'deficiency' comes about anyway!). But at the same time, I didn't see any evidence it would be harmful, so I opted to have it done so I wouldn't worry about whether I should have or not. It was fine. She barely even noticed it!


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## 9jawife

I had in my birth plan that I wanted the oral vitamin K as opposed to the shot.. simply trying to avoid trauma for baby. But I consulted with a CNM that delivers at the hospital and she said the oral version has been proven not effective. I didn't want to argue about it, as there are far more important issues to me. So I guess Jayden will have it but definitely no other shots in the hospital.


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## starshinebby

If delayed cord clamping is being done, does the vitamin K shot need to be given as well? I only ask because we plan on delaying cord clamping for 15min or until it's done pulsating (there's pictures on Google if anyone was interested).


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## fionar

We opted for the injection with our son and will for this baby as well. 

Any risks associated with the shot were far outweighed (for me) the potential (even though rare) risks of not getting it. Everyone has to weigh the decision for themselves, though - that's just what we came to in the end.


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## Jessica0907

The vitamin k shot will be the only shot baby #3 is getting at birth. Everything else will be delayed and no eye ointment.


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## TTCBean

We are skipping the Vit K injection.


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## starshinebby

TTCBean said:


> We are skipping the Vit K injection.

Why though? I'm not sure what we'll be doing yet, any info really helps.


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## TTCBean

starshinebby said:


> TTCBean said:
> 
> 
> We are skipping the Vit K injection.
> 
> Why though? I'm not sure what we'll be doing yet, any info really helps.Click to expand...

PHYTONDIONE VITAMIN K INJECTION

This information was taken from Merck vaccine manufacturer, who also make this injection.
Ingredients: Phytondione 2 or 10mgs, polyoxyethylated fatty acid 70mgs (the data sheet didnt say where the fatty acid was derived from, but one type of oral brand has bovine gall bladder fatty acid in it, so I assume similar here), dextrose, benzyl alcohol and water.
Other brands such as the one by Roche Pharmaceuticals, may have varying ingredients. Roches also contains hydrochloric acid.
Hospira Incs version contains aluminium.

Warnings: This injection should be administered subcutaneously (just under the skin) because severe reactions including fatalities have occurred immediately after intramuscular (deep muscle) and intravenous injection (via a drip). Those reactions include hypersensitivity, anaphylactic shock, and cardiac and respiratory arrest.
Benzyl Alcohol as a preservative as been associated with toxicity in newborns.

Adverse Reactions: Deaths have occurred after intramuscular and intravenous injection, flushing sensations, dizziness, rapid and weak pulse, profuse sweating, hypotension, dyspnea, cyanosis, pain, swelling at the injection site, allergic sensitivity, scleroderma like skin lesions that persist for long periods. Hyperbilirubinemia has occurred in newborns following the administration of vitamin K injection (jaundice).
This drug has not been tested to see if it is carcinogenic (causes cancer),whether it mutates or if it impairs fertility. It is not known whether it can cause fetal harm or whether it is excreted in human milk. (from: https://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vitamin-K-Does-Your-Baby-Really-Need-It-)

https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/skip-that-newborn-vitamin-k-shot/

For me it's mostly the ingredient list and possible side effects. We're skipping eye goo and Hep B as well, we're also doing no vaccinations or at the very least, very very delayed (depends on schooling).


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## misspriss

I had not considered it, when they threw the form at me as I was about to be wheeled in for my C-section, I declined the Vit K and the eye goo. I had already signed to decline the Hep B when they started inducing me. 

I am wondering now if I screwed up and should do something different. LO is perfectly healthy right now but I worry....


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## 9jawife

TTCBean said:


> starshinebby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTCBean said:
> 
> 
> We are skipping the Vit K injection.
> 
> Why though? I'm not sure what we'll be doing yet, any info really helps.Click to expand...
> 
> PHYTONDIONE VITAMIN K INJECTION
> 
> This information was taken from Merck vaccine manufacturer, who also make this injection.
> Ingredients: Phytondione 2 or 10mgs, polyoxyethylated fatty acid 70mgs (the data sheet didnt say where the fatty acid was derived from, but one type of oral brand has bovine gall bladder fatty acid in it, so I assume similar here), dextrose, benzyl alcohol and water.
> Other brands such as the one by Roche Pharmaceuticals, may have varying ingredients. Roches also contains hydrochloric acid.
> Hospira Incs version contains aluminium.
> 
> Warnings: This injection should be administered subcutaneously (just under the skin) because severe reactions including fatalities have occurred immediately after intramuscular (deep muscle) and intravenous injection (via a drip). Those reactions include hypersensitivity, anaphylactic shock, and cardiac and respiratory arrest.
> Benzyl Alcohol as a preservative as been associated with toxicity in newborns.
> 
> Adverse Reactions: Deaths have occurred after intramuscular and intravenous injection, flushing sensations, dizziness, rapid and weak pulse, profuse sweating, hypotension, dyspnea, cyanosis, pain, swelling at the injection site, allergic sensitivity, scleroderma like skin lesions that persist for long periods. Hyperbilirubinemia has occurred in newborns following the administration of vitamin K injection (jaundice).
> This drug has not been tested to see if it is carcinogenic (causes cancer),whether it mutates or if it impairs fertility. It is not known whether it can cause fetal harm or whether it is excreted in human milk. (from: https://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vitamin-K-Does-Your-Baby-Really-Need-It-)
> 
> https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/skip-that-newborn-vitamin-k-shot/
> 
> For me it's mostly the ingredient list and possible side effects. We're skipping eye goo and Hep B as well, we're also doing no vaccinations or at the very least, very very delayed (depends on schooling).Click to expand...

Oh my word. Why do they have to put this CRAP in a VITAMIN K shot?! Really upset now.


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## starshinebby

TTCBean said:


> starshinebby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTCBean said:
> 
> 
> We are skipping the Vit K injection.
> 
> Why though? I'm not sure what we'll be doing yet, any info really helps.Click to expand...
> 
> PHYTONDIONE VITAMIN K INJECTION
> 
> This information was taken from Merck vaccine manufacturer, who also make this injection.
> Ingredients: Phytondione 2 or 10mgs, polyoxyethylated fatty acid 70mgs (the data sheet didnt say where the fatty acid was derived from, but one type of oral brand has bovine gall bladder fatty acid in it, so I assume similar here), dextrose, benzyl alcohol and water.
> Other brands such as the one by Roche Pharmaceuticals, may have varying ingredients. Roches also contains hydrochloric acid.
> Hospira Incs version contains aluminium.
> 
> Warnings: This injection should be administered subcutaneously (just under the skin) because severe reactions including fatalities have occurred immediately after intramuscular (deep muscle) and intravenous injection (via a drip). Those reactions include hypersensitivity, anaphylactic shock, and cardiac and respiratory arrest.
> Benzyl Alcohol as a preservative as been associated with toxicity in newborns.
> 
> Adverse Reactions: Deaths have occurred after intramuscular and intravenous injection, flushing sensations, dizziness, rapid and weak pulse, profuse sweating, hypotension, dyspnea, cyanosis, pain, swelling at the injection site, allergic sensitivity, scleroderma like skin lesions that persist for long periods. Hyperbilirubinemia has occurred in newborns following the administration of vitamin K injection (jaundice).
> This drug has not been tested to see if it is carcinogenic (causes cancer),whether it mutates or if it impairs fertility. It is not known whether it can cause fetal harm or whether it is excreted in human milk. (from: https://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vitamin-K-Does-Your-Baby-Really-Need-It-)
> 
> https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/skip-that-newborn-vitamin-k-shot/
> 
> For me it's mostly the ingredient list and possible side effects. We're skipping eye goo and Hep B as well, we're also doing no vaccinations or at the very least, very very delayed (depends on schooling).Click to expand...

Ugh, that makes me sick. What's the worst that can happen if they don't receive the shot?

And what about the eye goo? What's in that and what's the risk of not getting it?


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## TTCBean

The eye goo is an antibiotic used to prevent syphilis, gonorrhea, or chlamydia. I figure if you know you don't have those, then skip it. They usually test you in early pregnancy anyway. If you have one of those diseases and it ends up in the babies eye, it can cause pink eye/conjunctivitis or even blindness.

Some hospitals use silver nitrate which causes the newborn to have blurred vision, red eyes, etc.


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## fionar

Yeah, we skip the erythromycin eyedrops, since I know I don't have chlamydia or ghonorrhea (and was just tested again to be sure). No sense introducing antibiotics when they're not necessary.


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## summer rain

I think its a personal decision with no right or wrong way of going about things. It appears that the oral vitamin K in the UK is identical to the injected version. The ingredients seem to be less dubious than the versions used in the US but its weighing up whether its safer to give the cocktail of chemicals via mouth where they could potentially affect the gut or via injection where they go direct into the bloodstream but could also cause problems. I have always opted for the latter and think I will do the same again. It is tricky as for some reason there is very little UK-geared manufacturer literature online about the vitamin K products used here (called konakion) but I found the Irish information as well as from a UK medicine site which had a brief information overview. It does seem as well that there is even less data on the oral version especially if given in repeated doses as recommended, than the injected version. The manufacturer states that the oral version isn't proven to be safe or effective after the first two doses yet it is advised to give it once a month for several months after that. Because of the scare study done on the injected version there is more data on it xx


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## starshinebby

TTCBean said:


> The eye goo is an antibiotic used to prevent syphilis, gonorrhea, or chlamydia. I figure if you know you don't have those, then skip it. They usually test you in early pregnancy anyway. If you have one of those diseases and it ends up in the babies eye, it can cause pink eye/conjunctivitis or even blindness.
> 
> Some hospitals use silver nitrate which causes the newborn to have blurred vision, red eyes, etc.




fionar said:


> Yeah, we skip the erythromycin eyedrops, since I know I don't have chlamydia or ghonorrhea (and was just tested again to be sure). No sense introducing antibiotics when they're not necessary.


Ahh, I see. I've tested negative for all those as well. Seems like they should only make it mandatory if the woman has tested positive for those STDs, though from what it sounds like it's routine unless you specifically ask not to have it? I'll include it on my birth plan notes, which is basically a list reminder of things I do not want done to our son. I'm not sure how I'll be after giving birth or how OH is going to be, so it's a good idea to have a list for him. He does better when he has a list, lol.


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## fionar

starshinebby said:


> Ahh, I see. I've tested negative for all those as well. Seems like they should only make it mandatory if the woman has tested positive for those STDs, though from what it sounds like it's routine unless you specifically ask not to have it? I'll include it on my birth plan notes, which is basically a list reminder of things I do not want done to our son. I'm not sure how I'll be after giving birth or how OH is going to be, so it's a good idea to have a list for him. He does better when he has a list, lol.

I'll disclaim this by saying that I gave birth at home and am doing so again, so my experience will differ drastically from what people who give birth elsewhere experience. That said, my UNDERSTANDING is that the eyedrops are routine procedure unless you specifically state you don't want them. I think they err on the side of (relative) caution by assuming you have chlamydia and/or gonorrhea. 

I could be wrong. We were explicitly asked during an appointment whether we wanted them or not, so got lots of time to research and have our wishes known. A hospital may be different.


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## Anthrogirl

With #1 I was in a state of ignorance about all of the newborn treatments and she got them all, but with #2, we declined all three; Vit K due to delayed cord clamping, eye ointment because I was 100% positive I was not carrying infections, and Hepatitis because I am diametrically opposed to vaccinating a brand new immune system. The Hep vaccine I did at a later date and never gave another thought to the others. The vit K and eye ointment were more difficult to decline here in Kentucky as it is state law that ALL newborns receive them (as well as do the newborn screen) and it took some fancy paperwork to get out of them. With #3, who will be born at home, I will skip all 3 again, and do the newborn screen when it's 3 days old. I do the latter, not for my own baby's benefit, but because I am a maternal and fetal health researcher and I believe that it's very important for health authorities to have the opportunity to gather these types of data for general population health.


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## summer rain

They don't have the eye drops in the UK and we simply don't have babies going blind from STD-related eye disease. Pre-1950s it was fairly common but since antibiotics and even more so since pre-natal testing it just doesn't happen now xx


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## motherearth23

https://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Breastmilk_stem_cells/

^^ This is the article that made me decide to skip the Vitamin K shot for my babe. My boyfriend was born at home and had no shots whatsoever and was an extremely healthy child. :)

This article also furthered my decision to do delayed cord clamping/possibly lotus birth.


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## sue_88

I have done my research and baby will be having the Vit K by mouth.

From the UK :flower:


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## lau86

my LO will be getting the injection as recommended by the NHS, I wouldn't trust it to be absorbed orally. The vit K is recommended for a reason (to help prevent clotting problems) and I wouldn't personally turn down something that is in a national programme.


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## Feronia

We skipped both the injection and the oral and I took vitamin K supplements after birth and ate lots of vitamin-K rich food (like kale!) We would have done the injection if she was born with any signs of trauma, but she had a gentle birth and was perfect so there wasn't the need. She had had no shots or any foreign substances -- just breastmilk -- and had been very healthy! :thumbup:


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## misslissa

I'm just looking at the arguments for and against vit k, it's such a hard decision.

My gut says do it but the oral version as its less traumatic and the cancer risk seems more related to the injection.

OP what was you final decision?


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## summer rain

In the UK the injection is exactly the same formulation as the oral version, unlike in other countries where the formulations differ between the two. There is more research on it being injected than being given orally; and there is no research on more than two oral doses being given (a minimum of three is advised). Also the oral dose now in use is a _larger_ dose than the injected dose; and is given on at least three occasions (if breastfed), so it is 1mg for the injected version, 6mg for the oral version altogether. Here is a link to the insert leaflet. As far as I know Konakion is the only version of vitamin K licenced for newborns in the UK.

https://www.drugs.com/uk/konakion-mm-paediatric-2-mg-0-2ml-leaflet.html

xx


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## misslissa

Really interesting SummerRain thank you. 

It's a difficult decision. From what I've read the childhood cancer link hasn't been disproved but hasn't been proved either. Not helpful. Plus there is the trauma of the baby having to have it, it's a deep injection, not nice for anyone let alone a tiny baby.


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## summer rain

It is really hard. As far as I have been told by midwives who are normally anti-vax so they are not biased towards vax/injections in any way that the dose of the injection that was found to cause an increased risk of leukaemia was many times of that in use these days and consequent studies have found no link. I do know some people who chose no vitamin K at all and got away with it, as haemhorragic disease of the newborn is extremely rare in full term babies but I wouldn't feel comfortable completely going without. All mine have needed at the very least, invasive blood tests and various other 'needles' in the early days, and in two cases they have had an IV, because they are all heavily jaundiced due to genetic causes so I figure one more injection is not going to add any extra trauma. I wish we could avoid all the needles but sadly its not an option :( xx


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## Kess

I stopped researching when I found that even in the original study that showed a possible leukemia link, the chance was smaller than the chance of hemorrhagic disease without Vit K. There are obviously also the later studies that throw lots of doubt on the original leukemia link, but even assuming that there is one, it was a smaller risk than the hemorrhagic disease risk of not giving the Vit K. My LO had the injection. My IMW who was very into natural everything also was supportive of the Vit K injection, which helped.

I wouldn't do eye goop, but we're in the UK so we don't anyway as we're tested for all STDs in pregnancy.


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## misslissa

I think I'm going to go for the injection, I can't completely decide and will probably change my mind again but I think it's the way to go. OH isn't so sure yet so he's doing a lot of reading too.


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## readynwilling

i declined the eye ointment, but we are going with the vit k shot. Both are law here, so i had to sign forms to not give the eye ointment. 

i decided the eye goop was unnecessary as i don't have any std's and my DD had eye infections from a blocked duct for the first year of her life, so if im gonna have to deal with the infections anyway why bother to give a preventative treatment that doesn't help.

The Vit k shot - i just couldn't come up with enough reasons for myself personally to not have it done. I am the worst at forgetting to give/take oral anything.... so its better for us that he gets it just in case. im not even sure if they offer oral drops in canada.


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## Larkspur

Just adding this link to the thread as a balance to the other points offered earlier. There are genuine risks to not having the shot, such as this baby who suffered a cerebral haemorrhage and other complications after the midwife forgot to administer or offer it to the mother:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10892632


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## summer rain

BTW my youngest had the vitamin K injection and like all my others he didn't even flinch. Thankfully he didn't need any jaundice testing or treatment as I was expecting, though he is still slightly yellow in the face so not sure if he will be sent for prolonged jaundice testing as we still haven't been discharged properly by the midwives and they are seeing him for the last time tomorrow. He did have on and off mild bleeding from his cord stump long after it fell off though so I am glad he had the vitamin K xx


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## Dream.dream

Larkspur said:


> Just adding this link to the thread as a balance to the other points offered earlier. There are genuine risks to not having the shot, such as this baby who suffered a cerebral haemorrhage and other complications after the midwife forgot to administer or offer it to the mother:
> 
> https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10892632

We will be doing oral vitamin k. Yes it happens sometimes but giving them a shot isn't the only way to prevent this .


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## Komatsu

We will most likely give the injection again but will be skipping the eye goop again .


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