# Worried about autism again- hand leading



## StranjeGirl

So dd has just turned 15 months yesterday and I have been a bit worried as she does not point yet. She is now pretty consistent at following a point, but won't do it herself. I know that is a flag for autism so I have been a bit nervous about it. I just today read that an even bigger flag is hand leading. I guess autistic children don't usually point, so instead they take your hand and put it on what they want. DD does this with the front door. She wants to go outside and will will grab our hand and walk over to the door and put our hand on the knob. She is usually crying but this point because she has already been to the door and we have not let her out. She also wants to clap my hands rather than her own. She still does not clap. She did it once a couple weeks ago, and then would bring them together when we did the "if you're happy and you know it song" but now she went back to not really doing that either. She just smiles and gets excited, but doesn't clap. The other example of hand leading is she has a toy that you spin. DH made it spin really really fast one time and this amused her, so she took his hand and put it on the toy to do it again. I guess she doesn't do it in every instance, but she does do it, especially with clapping and the front door. She has no words yet. She is very vocal and babbles a lot, but no meaningful words. It's hard to tell if she says mama or dada, because she babbles these words all day long and I'm not sure if when she says them to us on the rare instance if it is just babble, or if she is calling us by name. If I say "can you say mama" she will, but again, not sure if she realizes what she is saying..so I don't count it as a word. Other than that she seems pretty typical. Not the most affectionate child as she is always busy, but she does give us enough attention to keep us happy. Do other toddlers do this "hand leading." Do these things seem concerning for 15 months, or just typical?


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## supertabby

What you've described is what Isobel was like at 15 months. She did point sometimes but not often, she would grab your hand and take you to what she wanted - at 2 she still does this sometimes even though she can point and talk.

Clapping - she could clap at this age but she wouldn't have done it on demand then. But if I clapped she might've moved my hands together to signal me to do it some more. 

Talking - Isobel said her first word at 15 months (car). She didn't say anything else till 18 months but now she's just turned 2 and has a huge vocabulary and reguarly uses 6 word sentences.

I don't know if you've experienced any other indicators but from the post above your lo sounds the same as mine at that age, and Isobel definitely isn't autistic. She's meeting all her milestones and is social and affectionate. I don't think you need to worry.

ETA on the talking/babbling front, it took me a while to realise Isobel was saying car. I thought it was babbling then I started to think she does it most when we're at nursery in the car park so I watched and asked questions and realised she was using it in context. Later on she seemingly babbled der and da a lot, after a while I realised it was there and that.


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## mia_leacey

William definitely does hand leading. I assumed it was normal!


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## Maxy1

Ha Ha, Liam's favourite activity is hand leading and he is now 18 months. Once he discovered it, he would use it for everything. he doesn't really talk either. He certainly has not ever said mum, or mama or any name for me. he says dada, but he says it for everything - truck, bus, bird, cat, car, bottle, food, dad are all dada. He does clap, but certainly not because or when I ask him to. 

I think your 15 month old LO sounds exactly like Liam was at that age (and now even).


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## liz1985

I really would not worry. My LO is just over 15 months and he does this too. It's just a way of communicating when they can't talk. I also work with children of a similar age and its very common. I'd try not to google, everything can be a sign of something, and you'll end up looking for problems and issues. 

15 months is too early to worry about speech, just when your LO is taking you to things keeping talking, e.g 'oh you want daddy to the spin the toy' or 'you want to go outside?' So she doesn't become reliant on gestures instead of talking.


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## RachA

I think your child sounds fairly normal. It's normal for them to hand lead etc so i wouldn't worry about that. They have to communicate with you some how and some children just don't pick up pointing for a long time.

Also, contrary to how it sounds on the forum, it's actually quite normal for a 15 month to not have any proper words. My son was an advanced talker as he had way more words than average at 2 years however he didn't actually say his first word until he was over 18months old.


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## StranjeGirl

Thank you so much ladies, it is so reassuring to hear that other toddlers do this! I'm a therapist so I know first hand that we all have traits of many disorders, but it doesn't mean we have the disorder. It's just hard when it comes to your LO as I want to make sure I get her the proper help if needed. I have health anxiety, so I freak out about everything and go to the dr/specialist anytime I think I have something, and I am trying very hard not to do this with her. It is hard to distinguish what is rational and what is not for me, so I try to go by other peoples opinions.

Supertabby- I don't think I have noticed other traits, but I am not sure. I know she didn't raise her arms to be picked up much- only when she wanted out of something. But she was also held a lot and wanted to be roaming around. When my mom would come she would put her arms out to be picked up because she wanted to sit on her lap and play with her jewelry and play horsey That was my only other concern, but I think it is more that she wants to explore and play rather than hates affection. I can't believe they called you ******** :wacko: Actually I think they did the same with my husband. He was late for everything and seemed very off in every way - milestones, socially, physically etc. He turned out to be very social, bright and successful- so I guess you just really never know until you allow these children to grow up! 

Thanks again for all the input. It puts my mind at ease!


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## marie-louise

Hi! My son is being assessed for asd atm, I think that 15 months is quite young for you to be concerned as there are so many 'autistic traits' that are a normal part of development in a toddler! Yes, my son hand leads and always has and he didn't point either! It is good that your lo will follow your point, my son used to just look at my hand! He can follow a point now because he has learned that's what you do! As for the speech, 15 months is very young to be concerned, a speech and language therapist won't see them until they are 2. Also, does your lo respond to their name yet? I know that is what they check at 18 months, if you are very concerned, talk to your health visitor but don't be surprised if they say its too early to tell!


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## sun

There's a long list of "red flags" for toddlers, yet the majority of toddlers do most of these things. It's looking at the whole picture that makes a diagnosis. I have never met a toddler that doesn't like to spin in circles, but it's a red flag. Take a typical 16mo, and sometimes 75% of what they do in a given day can be on a "markers of autism" list. For me the biggest things are social/communication - does she let you know what she wants through whatever means are age-appropriate?, does she understand age-appropriate things?, does she include you in play by looking at you or showing objects?, does she babble and make sounds?, does she include you in her universe? Hand-leading is very common in toddlers - especially before they can speak and realize that they need you to help, but can't ask verbally. Generally it stops when they learn other ways of communicating. If you really think there's something wrong, it doesn't hurt to mention it. Follow your instinct as a parent since you are with them all the time. But sometimes I do think the red flag lists cause undo worry. Our developmental ped sees lots of mums who have typically developing children who come to her out of fear of items on the list and spend lots of time watching for red flags.


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## suzib76

sun said:


> There's a long list of "red flags" for toddlers, yet the majority of toddlers do most of these things. It's looking at the whole picture that makes a diagnosis. I have never met a toddler that doesn't like to spin in circles, but it's a red flag. Take a typical 16mo, and sometimes 75% of what they do in a given day can be on a "markers of autism" list. For me the biggest things are social/communication - does she let you know what she wants through whatever means are age-appropriate?, does she understand age-appropriate things?, does she include you in play by looking at you or showing objects?, does she babble and make sounds?, does she include you in her universe? Hand-leading is very common in toddlers - especially before they can speak and realize that they need you to help, but can't ask verbally. Generally it stops when they learn other ways of communicating. If you really think there's something wrong, it doesn't hurt to mention it. Follow your instinct as a parent since you are with them all the time. But sometimes I do think the red flag lists cause undo worry. Our developmental ped sees lots of mums who have typically developing children who come to her out of fear of items on the list and spend lots of time watching for red flags.

Brilliant post. I see so many people worrying about toddlers and autism when there are so many traits that can be seen naturally in toddlers. I could never explain it as well as the first part of this post does


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## sun

Also depending where you are, the concern for words is different. Here there wouldn't be any concern yet about words at 15mo - they would see babbling loads as being a great sign of words to come. Usually 2yo is the important speech milestone age - even though some kiddos start speaking even later. In the US however, my friends doc was concerned about their first son having no words at much much younger. All 3 of her kids were speaking well at 2, but had no words at 18mo. If they had followed their doc all would have been in speech therapy at 18mo. From what I've gathered, kids are flagged for speech much younger there.


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## sheldonsmommy

My son did both of the things you're concerned about. Babbling is great! By about 18 months is when my son's vocabulary skyrocketed, and by 20 months he was using 2 word sentences. I may also add that at about 16 months my doctor was concerned regarding his speech, even though I wasn't.
To get me to grab things off higher shelves he would hand lead us then push our hand up as much as possible, or place our hand on whatever book he wanted to read.

In my opinion it's still early, but it's always good to be a vigilant parent!


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## StranjeGirl

Thank you so much ladies. It is a good reminder to look at the big picture rather than little details. I think i get nervous because she isn't the most social child, especially with people she doesn't know well. People will wave to her and smile at her in the store and she will glare at them with a scornful face. She is social and smiley with us, but not all day, and sometimes she totally ignores us to go off and run around and play. I have friends whose babies are smiling constantly. You just look at them and they smile at you, even if you are a stranger. But in the end, I guess I have to look at that she does include us, she is interested in what we, and everyone around her, are doing, and although she doesn't talk or point, she does bring me her books to read to her and will hand me things that she wants opened. I guess I will just bring up with her pediatrician about missing her pointing milestone and just keep an eye on things. 
Marie-louise I hoping that everything turns out just fine for your son :hugs:
Thanks again for the input.


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## StranjeGirl

By the way do noises ever count as words? Now if I ask her what a snake says she says "ssssss" Do these ever count?

BTW -suzib76, is that a pic of you on your signature? I swear you look exactly like my sister when she was younger! I can't get over it!


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## Amy31

To op - I could have written this post my 16 month old is the same as all the things you put and doesn't always respond to his name. It has been a worry to me so this thread has given me some reassurance. I feel my lo frustration as he wants to communicate but can't. He moans all the time as he is frustrated. I hope our lo will be talking soon. :hugs:


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## SillyMoo1983

My LO does a lot of hand leading as she can't say many words. She's 20 months. It's her way of saying she wants something because she can't verbally tell me. I thougt it was normal? She's pointed once. Started clapping at 13 months. Waving at 18 months. Gradually the words are coming. She can say mama, dada, ball, cuckoo, ready, nanna, no, she has her own way of saying grandad, Archie, banana and she babbles a lot. Her friends say more actual words but DD always has lots of babbles and squeals. They all learn things at different rates. I'm not worried. She's learning some things so I'm happy :)


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## londonangel

Mine will ask for things but she'll also 'hand lead' - think she thinks she's reinforcing the point. Your little one sounds pretty normal to me.


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## Amy31

Does your LOs interact? My LO doesn't really respond to his name, only sometimes and doesn't really interact with other children (unless it is a game of chase) or adults.


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## StranjeGirl

Amy31 said:


> Does your LOs interact? My LO doesn't really respond to his name, only sometimes and doesn't really interact with other children (unless it is a game of chase) or adults.

What do you mean by "interact"? Mine doesn't really "play" with children, but I think at this age they pretty much are known to just parallel play, where they play near each other and not necessarily with each other. Mine interacts with other children only if they have something she wants. Then she will try and take it. She interacts with adults, but is very slow to warm up to anyone. If it is someone she knows well she likes to play, but if it is a stranger she will stick to me like glue for a bit and then slowly get comfortable. She may play a little with them if they get on the floor or make the effort, but if they are just sitting there talking to me she makes no effort to play with them. If it is someone she knows well, like my mom, then she won't leave her alone and wants to play- even if my mom is just sitting there trying to have a conversation with me. So it really depends on if she knows them or not. Mine responds to her name most of the time, but there are definitely times she ignores me, and many times she ignores only me but not dh or my mom. Are you worried about your lo's hearing at all? I've heard that many times it could be a hearing issue. I know that with mine it is not hearing as she will mostly respond, and when she ignores me it truly feels like she is ignoring me and not deaf. A couple times I even caught her giving me the quick glance with her eyes- so I know she heard me and just is not interested in what I have to say. It's usually when she is busy doing something fun and probably doesn't want me to take her away. Sometimes she even starts to run away- like she realizes I am going to make her do something she doesn't want to. She hasn't quite learned yet that I can run a lot faster!


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## BabyJ'sMummy

You're lo sounds exactly like how my DS was and we queried Autism as well, at one point he had pretty much every single red flag, he even learned skills and regressed His actual issue turned out to be his hearing (he had glue ear), which he ended up getting surgery for grommets. DS recently got assessed for Autism by CAMHS and he doesn't have it and he no longer really has any of the traits I was worried about. He is a bit delayed with language and social skills to an extent but is coming on loads. If you feel worried I would get hearing checked out, I should mention that DS was 18 months before I really got concerned. xx


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## Shey

Jayden did point when he was 15months but he has mild high functioning Autism. Being that his dad has ADHD and I have Aspergers. But every child is different.


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## Amy31

StranjeGirl said:


> Amy31 said:
> 
> 
> Does your LOs interact? My LO doesn't really respond to his name, only sometimes and doesn't really interact with other children (unless it is a game of chase) or adults.
> 
> What do you mean by "interact"? Mine doesn't really "play" with children, but I think at this age they pretty much are known to just parallel play, where they play near each other and not necessarily with each other. Mine interacts with other children only if they have something she wants. Then she will try and take it. She interacts with adults, but is very slow to warm up to anyone. If it is someone she knows well she likes to play, but if it is a stranger she will stick to me like glue for a bit and then slowly get comfortable. She may play a little with them if they get on the floor or make the effort, but if they are just sitting there talking to me she makes no effort to play with them. If it is someone she knows well, like my mom, then she won't leave her alone and wants to play- even if my mom is just sitting there trying to have a conversation with me. So it really depends on if she knows them or not. Mine responds to her name most of the time, but there are definitely times she ignores me, and many times she ignores only me but not dh or my mom. Are you worried about your lo's hearing at all? I've heard that many times it could be a hearing issue. I know that with mine it is not hearing as she will mostly respond, and when she ignores me it truly feels like she is ignoring me and not deaf. A couple times I even caught her giving me the quick glance with her eyes- so I know she heard me and just is not interested in what I have to say. It's usually when she is busy doing something fun and probably doesn't want me to take her away. Sometimes she even starts to run away- like she realizes I am going to make her do something she doesn't want to. She hasn't quite learned yet that I can run a lot faster!Click to expand...

Our LOs sound similar. I met up at toddler group today and spoke to some of the mums and the toddlers are all so similar just developing differently. I am a worrier to start with but will see the HV next week. I am hoping to get a hearing test done but I don't think they will do it until he is older - but I will try and push for it. But like you I think my LO is just choosing to ignore me - but don't teenagers do that as well :) xx


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## Amenmom

Jrrobbie said:


> Hey i know you posted this along time ago but my childs going through the same and wanted to get an update from ya

My 19 month is the same and I am going creazy,I will be happy for any updates


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## DobbyForever

I know this is an old post, but have you mentioned this to your pediatrician? You can always go through the evaluation and decline services but tbh the earlier you test the more likely you are to get a false diagnosis. But the upside is diagnosis means access to so many more resources.

Try doing the online MCHAT-R to get a baseline risk assessment. My son (diagnosed) has consistently scored moderate risk. I get bored every so often and redo it. Tbh he didn’t even start hand leading until fairly recently.


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## Amenmom

My son points and now does handleading les but still does sometime specially if he want to go out,he understand simple commands and respond to his name or he knows what happens around him,he had some word but he doesn't use them a lot..he use to do a lot thing before,now he doesn't do anymore like he wawe and then he stop and now he wawe agen,he use to clap now he does less,what concerns me is because he doesn't iven to touch his little sister, but take from her evrything like dummi etj,nex week will be 19 month and now hi start to spin weels (no all day but he does)HV told she doesn't see anything to worried in his 18 month check,maybe he has 16-17 words but he doesn't use them much...I am very confused


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## DobbyForever

Not sure where you are, but you have to trust your gut. Here, the pediatrician puts in a referral to the developmental pediatrician to assess and diagnose and treat developmental delays. My son was behind in some milestones but but enough to worry his pediatrician. He’s also very chatty and loving and comes off as a child without ASD. But there were other big concerns and so I held my ground. Luckily, I interviewed her beforehand and one question I had for her was what would you do if we disagree he has an issue and she said she tends to side with parents because we know our children best. So she referred him. You have to trust your gut.


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## mummy2lola

Hi new in this section as was coming in to look for autism posts....my son has just turned 3 but was diagnosed with autism by 30months,I just wanted to say that when our specialist asked about pointing and I said he didn’t she asked if he found another way to communicate like “guiding ur hand” to what he wanted and I said no nothing,she put that down instantly and said the fact that he was not trying to lead my hand was a sign as most toddlers will find some way to communicate their needs,by the sounds of things and with everyone else’s lo on here ur lo sounds right on track xx


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