# Worried about infection after loss and ERPC at 14 weeks PG



## allmuddledup

Hi. I was looking for some feedback from other ladies who have experienced the physical healing process after pregnancy loss and ERPC as I am worried about possibly having an infection. For 4 days after the ERPC I had no physical pain at all, only a slight tenderness in my abdomen on the first day. Now, since 5 days post-ERPC I've been experiencing a small twinging ache and tender feeling in my uterus. It didn't start until it was too late to go to the GP before they closed for the long weekend. The pain isn't significant enough to go to A&E and maybe it's just the normal healing process, but I am worried because up to day 5 I wasn't having any pain at all. I've nearly stopped bleeding now as well, only a little spotting since yesterday (day 6). No fever or any other worrying symptoms. Has anyone else experienced this renewed pain/tenderness several days after pregnancy loss / ERPC? 

I am sorry for anyone's loss who is in a position to respond. Thank you in advance for your feedback. I appreciate any input that ladies with experience can provide as I can't get to GP until Tuesday at earliest and I don't want to spend a day in the A&E just to be told it's normal and to go home.


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## pip7890

Hi

I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my baby a week ago today but elected to have a natural miscarriage. 

I had heavy bleeding and constant low level cramping for the first few days. By Day 5 both had pretty much eased up with occasional red spotting. At day 6 the bleeding turned brown and disgusting looking. The cramps have gone but I have been experiencing soreness on both sides - like ovulation pain - which I assume is my uterus starting to contract and things moving around. 

This morning - day 7 - I've got really bad lower back ache and dirty brown spotting. I don't have a temperature, I'm sleeping okay and have no sickness so I assume this is normal for me. 

I think everyone recovers differently. If you feel otherwise okay then I wouldn't worry and just give the doc a call on Tuesday. If your instinct says something's not right then give the hospital a call. 

Hope you feel a little better soon. 

Pip x


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## suffolksarah

Hi, i didnt have any real pain after my erpc. To be honest i took ibroprofen twice a day for a week, just because i thought it may help prevent any swelling or possible inflamination. i feel okay but still a bit brown when i wipe, hpt still positive though:cry: just want my body back to normal, so we can ttc again.

if you can not handle the pain (doubled over in pain) i would get to a&e if not too bad or like mild period pain, try taking paracetamol and ibuprofen to help.

Sorry for your loss my dear, hopefully next nye we will all be kept awake by screaming babies!!!! xxx:hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Thank you *Pip* and *Sarah* for your replies. I'm sorry too for your losses and hope you will both be recovered soon, in all regards. Your advice makes sense... As the abdominal pain I'm experiencing is only very mild and doesn't appear to be getting worse at this point I won't worry just yet. I think I was mostly anxious because I got a horrible uterine anaerobic bacterial infection after I delivered my son 5 years ago which makes me extra aware that it could happen again. The pain from it was every bit as bad as labour pains, but as that is not the case at the moment I will try to stop worrying and wait it out. It sounds like a mild amount of cramping is just par for the course at this stage. Fingers crossed that's all this is.

I wish you both the best and thank you for your replies. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Hi i had my erpc 11 days ago now and only thing i had was some small cramps on day 5/6 and yesterday i moved in an awkward position on sofa and had a really sharp pain as if id pulled something in my stomach :shrug:

I know they said if i got a lot of pain, bleeding, fever or smelly discharge to contact my doctor because it could be an infection, but fx ive not had that.. just brownish spotting which is driving me nutty because i keep thinking its the last of it and no need for a pad then i spot again :dohh:


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## Pippin

Hi, sorry for your loss. I had an erpc and I spotted right after but then had no bleeding after and only tenderness for a few days then it was like nothing happened. My doctor said if I experience smelly discharge and heavy bleeding to see them asap they did say I'd be tender for up to a week I think. If you are worried go to A&E because it's not worth risking it hon :hugs:


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## Suze

Hi, just wanted to add my own experience although I dont think it will be of massive use to you. I had my erpc (11wks) 3 days ago and haven't had any physical symptoms really like pippin said as if nothing has happened. However I was/am on antibiotics for a chest infection too so can't help thinking I might be ahead of the game in terms of warding off any infections. 
I'd get an appointment with the gp once they open again if you're still a bit worried, can understand the legacy of the previous infection must bug you. Take care and I wish you a speedy recovery :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Thank you *Poppy, Pippin and Suze*. What Poppy experienced sounds exactly like what I have been feeling as well. Day 5, 6 & 7 I had mild cramping but it seems to have stopped now. Also, I've only had brown spotting since Day 6. It's a bit unnerving to have my body feeling so incredibly normal after such a heartwrenching loss. Seems so out of sync with the internal pain. I'm sorry that everyone here can relate. 

I liked what *suffolksarah* had to say though, bring on the screaming babies next NYE! :hugs: Is it too early to start casting baby dust on everyone? 

My partner and I are so looking forward to being able to make love again, wanting to be able to have that closeness and intimacy again. We've decided that we will only use protection until my cycle resumes then we will NTNP for a while and see what happens. I nearly drove myself crazy TTC this last year so I'm going to try really hard not to think about it in those terms for a while. I find the prospect of going through this again terrifying so am just gonna take things one day at a time and try to keep my head together for now. 

Thank you to everyone who has responded.


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## allmuddledup

As it happens, I do have an infection. Though I don't know that I had it a week ago when I first posted. I started getting sharp stabbing pains yesterday and today despite the bleeding having almost fully stopped (just some dark brown spotting and occasional blood clots). I've been feeling REALLY run down since everything happened but getting more so each day. When the doctor felt my lower abdomen today I nearly leapt off the table it hurt so badly and apparently I had a low grade fever which I wasn't even aware of until the GP took my temp. That was enough to convince him I have developed an infection and I am now on 2 types of antibiotics. I just hope they will clear the infection up before it causes any lasting damage. This nightmare just isn't letting up. :nope:


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## poppy666

Hope you recover soon sweetie :hugs:

Im still spotting but bright red now thought it was a light period but havnt got a clue :shrug:


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## allmuddledup

poppy666 said:


> Hope you recover soon sweetie :hugs:
> 
> Im still spotting but bright red now thought it was a light period but havnt got a clue :shrug:

Thank you Poppy. I don't think the red spotting will be a period. I've read several places that you have to have no bleeding for at least 20 days for any subsequent bleeding to be your period. Perhaps your body is still trying to shed the built up lining from pregnancy or some of the placenta got left behind after ERPC. Or your body may just still be trying to heal from everything it's been through. Watch out if you get any pain at this stage. Could be the beginning of an infection like me (I hope not though!!!).

I wanted to ask, is anyone else still getting a positive HPT at this point? I am on Day 13 and still getting a faint positive. Feeling really sad right now.


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## poppy666

Thanks for info sweetie and yes im on CD18 and i got faint positive Thurseday, im going to test again today so frustrating x


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## allmuddledup

Argh! This is so frustrating. I went for a day out with my partner & son today with some gentle walking around and I ended up bleeding quite heavily (and unexpectedly) bright red. I hadn't even spotted for over 24 hours before this happened!! Fortunately it wasn't accompanied by pain. I think the antibiotics are already working their magic, but I'm not sure what to make of the sudden renewal of blood. It almost seems as if I am starting the healing process over again. Maybe I am. I dunno. I just want my body to recover now. 

Anyone else out there feeling sorry for themselves at the moment? :nope:


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## allmuddledup

I'm so sorry to say Poppy that if you are still getting positives then the red spotting can't be AF. From what I understand, all HCG has to leave your body before you can ovulate or have a period. I've heard of some unusual cases when someone has O'd before all the HCG was gone but it is very rare or may have even been a misinterpretation of the signs.

I am so feeling your frustration. This is the third time I've been through this recovery process and frankly I hope it never happens again... But I think I will still take the risk. We haven't quite given up hope yet. 

Fingers crossed for everyone who's still hoping and still trying.


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## Suze

Sorry to hear that it did end up being an infection for you, and that you now have added confusion about bleeding. 
I just posted a thread about bleeding because my spotting stopped about 4 days ago but today I have started bleeding quite heavily and I'm wondering what it is, if it could be af?...I'm on day 9 and still got a faint positive hpt today too.
It's all so frustrating isn't it, it's not as if we've been through enough already :hugs:


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## poppy666

Feel like banging my head against a brick wall lol... yep another faint postive this evening when i tested... if it had been negative i would of said it was af for deffo but its not, cant go anywhere without using a pad now cos you just never know when your going to bleed :growlmad:


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## Suze

What a nightmare Poppy and isn't it awful that we're getting upset by seeing 2 lines...it's like the last reminder of the babies we don't have. Would you consider asking your doc to take bloods? I was thinking about that if mine doesn't go


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## poppy666

Suze tonights test was really faint and im not sure if im getting them cos ive still got some tissue left over from erpc... ive had about 5 clots today with the bleeding so going to ring epu monday if it carries on and see what they say :shrug: maybe they'll tell me to come up then i'll ask them to check my levels x

I know what you mean about the lines i hate seeing them.. but cant wait to see those lines again hopefully in a few months [-o&lt;


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## Suze

If you're having some heavy and nasty bleeds today then that might just get rid of the last of whatever is still producing hcg in your system...fingers crossed anyway!


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## poppy666

FX For you too but with what ive read it can takes weeks for hcg to leave your system :dohh: we'll get there x


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## allmuddledup

Yeah, you said it. Seeing those 2 lines is a real kick in the guts knowing that baby is gone. 

At this point, the last two times, I was champing at the bit, rearing to go and get back to TTC (I think that is a very normal response, actually) and I was SO frustrated at having to wait. This time I just feel broken. I want to be able to regain the physical intimacy with my partner that has been put on hold, but I think I will be terrified next time if I see 2 lines again (at the right time, that is) because for me, it's started to mean that it could all result in this... heartbreak and loss and utter hopelessness. 

That said, in theory, I haven't given up hope, but there is a little part of me that is pleading quietly from the background to just give up because I can't take it if this happens again. Thank you inner voice for the vote of confidence. Does anyone else have doubts about TTC again?


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## poppy666

Im scared to get my BFP again then MC again i dont think i could emotionally deal with that too soon after losing this one, but i dont want to wait a few cycles either... i fully understand how scared you must be because you suffered two so must be heartbreaking your one brave lady :hugs:


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## Suze

I'm *absolutely *with you on the ttc reservations. 
With my last baby I swore I would never ever be in a scan room being given that crap news but then of course I was so quickly wanting to ttc again (OH thought I was weird) and fell pg again within 3 months.
This time round I felt even more so, and my OH too that there is only so much one can go through...however I have to say already my maternal instincts are kicking in again :blush:

Does your OH share your reservations?


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## allmuddledup

Fortunately, me and my OH are pretty much on the same page... Heartbroken over our losses (the latest one being the worst for both of us by far) but not ready to give up hope. 

We have agreed that we want to at least NTNP (which for us is code for TTC but pretending we're not) once I've gotten my first period after this loss. He doesn't want me to obsess over temps and tests because he sees how stressed out I get from it. I don't want to start obsessing again either. I think I am much more likely to conceive if I can just chill out. I told him I'll try to avoid charting and testing for at least a couple of months if he can supply the goods every 2 to 3 days to ensure that we have a decent chance of conceiving. I wonder who will break first!

Anyway, we're both scared of losing another baby or going through what we have just been through again, but neither of us are ready to give up hope of having a baby together either. I guess we've just got to hope for the best and keep on trying!


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## Suze

That sounds like a good plan if he has agreed to 'supply the goods' every 2-3 days in which case you shouldn't really need to chart or opt. We're the same, I used to tell my OH that I had a positive opt but I don't think he wants to know this time, mind you he'll get suspicious when I suggest :sex: as we only really do it when we're ttc :haha:


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## allmuddledup

Hah. We definitely :sex: less when I am in my non-fertile times of the month but even less during those times when I am charting. Still, that said, we have a pretty healthy :sex: life and I am really looking forward to getting back to it once this infection clears and I stop bleeding. We haven't been able to do it at all since we lost Gerri as I didn't want to risk getting an infection and now that actually I have one, I don't want to hamper my chances of a clean recovery... so we wait. :growlmad:

I think my OH definitely felt pressured when I would tell him it was a good time to :sex:. It definitely would take him longer to "supply the goods" :blush: when the pressure was on as well. I think we will both be better off for a while if we just NTNP and I leave the charting alone for a while. That said, I will probably start to go mad a few days into my new cycle if I don't know what my BBT is. Doh.


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## allmuddledup

Well, this is Day 14 A.G. (After Gerri) and this morning at 6:30 am I did another HPT with my FMU and was relieved to see the line continuing to fade. I think yesterday's heavy bleed may have had something to do with it. I would wager that by this time next week all traces of her will probably be gone. I have very mixed feelings about that.

Just for reference, I looked back at my records from my first two losses and I noticed that my period came about 3 weeks after all HCG was out of my system in both cases. That is the only real constant between the two experiences as they were very different otherwise (ectopic vs blighted ovum, bled for 20+ days vs spotted for less than a week, Vastly different HCG levels, etc). If my previous experiences are any point of reference, then I should hopefully have gotten my first period by mid-February, depending on how many more days it takes for Gerri's HCG to leave my system.

I need a tissue. I hope everyone else has had a good start to a new day. xox


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## poppy666

Thats great news sweetie :happydance: i wasnt bleeding after my bath last night so decided to DTD but got disturbed and didnt finish :haha: but woke up this morning to more bleeding and really bad af pains arghh just taken some painkillers x


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## allmuddledup

Oh Poppy, renewed bleeding and pain at this stage is worrying. If the pains don't subside you should talk to your GP (or whomever you are supposed to ring) asap. You may have an infection. If all is going as it should your bleeding should have tapered off by now and there shouldn't be any pain by this point. The possible culprits are retained pregnancy tissue or infection (or both!). Please talk to your doctor if the pain persists. :nope:


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## poppy666

Will ring epu tomorrow, its just like a really bad period, bleeding still light but it stopped last night till i DTD :dohh: maybe tissue trying to get out or infection? see what they say x


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## Suze

Can I just ask you both s bit of a tmi question, the bleeding, did it have a weird metallic smell to it?! The bleeding I had immediately after the erpc didn't but this new lot has....:sick:


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## poppy666

OMG Suze im just this minute googling that kind of question now cos i can smell the blood now when i go bathroom to change pad and i never really smell the blood on my period :wacko: unless its cos i usually use tampons x


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## allmuddledup

I've been able to smell the blood since I was in hospital so I'm probably not the best person to ask (overly sensitive nose). I think the blood (both red and brown) around the time the infection was playing up had a stronger odor than before though. Metallic is one word that could be used to describe it. Don't know if that helps. How you ladies doing now?


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## poppy666

Im ok thanks cramps calmed down now just feel like im on a period :haha:

You ok? x


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## Suze

I'm at the docs for my flu jab in the morning so will ask about thus bleeding. Could you actually be on a period poppy, I'm confused as to whether that's biologically possible! 
I'm pleased you said the smell could be described as metallic. 
I'm also feeling really low today so wonder if my hormones have taken a further tumble, I hope so
:hugs: to you both


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## pip7890

:hugs: to you all. Sorry you're having a hard time. It's difficult as it is without prolonged bleeding and infections. 

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

This is Day 15 for me now and my HPT this morning only showed the faintest positive result possible. I also haven't had any bleeding or spotting for nearly 24 hours. I was looking back at my diary from my last loss and saw that (between HPTs and blood tests) the HCG was fully out of my system about 3 days after the last day I got a positive result and then my period came about 3 weeks after that. Based on all that, I am hoping to see AF within about 4 weeks. I really hope I do. I'm feeling a bit better emotionally today. Not as depressed as I have been since we said goodbye to Gerri and for once I don't feel too guilty about feeling better. I hope today is looking up for you lovely ladies as well. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Awww sweetie :hug:

I rang EPU explained i spotted brown for 10 days after erpc, stopped for 3 days and got ov pains etc then started bleeding lightly again with small clots etc.. she said its my af :happydance: i asked her arnt you ment to stop bleeding totally for 20 days before af and she said ' no some women will not have a break after spotting and will go on to have there af straight away'

She said sounded like i ov'd early then straight onto my 1st period, unless i get a fever, really heavy bleeding or its too prolonged im fine x

So CD5 for me, plus i did a IC 10miu and was negative, but after the time lapse there was a veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy faint line but im not counting that x


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## allmuddledup

That is such great news Poppy. Lucky you, getting AF back so soon. Must be one of the exceptions to the rule! :) I won't be hoping for any miracles here, just to get AF back in February. I have PCOS so any period for me is good news. Argh. Never thought I'd say that. Hah.

I wanted to tell you as well that I nearly ordered some Soy Isoflavons yesterday when I ran across something that stopped me... I take vitex (I get Femaprin from the USA) which has helped my cycles to become a little more regular and apparently you aren't supposed to mix these two supplements lest they cancel each other out. I've got about a three month supply of Femaprin left so I think I will see it through and if no BFP by then I may change tactics and try Soy Isoflavons (assuming my Gyne doesn't have me on clomid by that time).

Do you take any other supplements yourself? I'd be interested to know what homeopathic cocktails other ladies are trying. I take fish oil, pregnacare conception, 5mg folic acid, raspberry leaf, wheatgerm oil and vitex (Femaprin) everyday. I dropped the Femaprin and raspberry leaf while I was pregnant of course but started them up again a few days after we said goodbye to Gerri. I hope they help my body get back on track as well as before.


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## poppy666

Soy has helped a lot of ladies with PCOS sweetie, if you want to try it i can help as much as i can sweetie :hugs:

I dont take any supplements, all i took last time was folic acid, Soy and used Preseed, just going to start the folic again tomorrow i think x


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## allmuddledup

Thanks Poppy. I'll definitely let you know if I end up trying Soy. How long did you use it before you got your BFP? Do you have any conditions that interfere with your fertility or were you just giving yourself a step up when TTC? Fingers crossed you'll get your next BFP soon. Would be lovely if we both did and could be bump buddies. :)


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## poppy666

Soy worked 1st time using it and no as far as im aware i ov every month on a regular 28 day cycle, i just thought id try it cos of my age , aww bump buddies be great fx for both of us x


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## allmuddledup

Wow, in the first month! that's incredible. Had you been TTC for very long before you used it? I've been really pleased with the effect vitex has had on my cycle overall but if it doesn't come through for me by the time I've finished the supply I've got then I think I'll be on the Soy next myself. That will also give us time to NTNP and for me to try the not-obsessing-about-TTC route. It may actually work for us! Fingers crossed.


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## poppy666

I was ttc 2 months prior but not really tracking or using anything, so that month i thought id propery try and set up charting, opks, soy and preseed and got my bfp on 9dpo not bad for a 40yr old :haha:


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## allmuddledup

That is truly incredible. Not bad for a 40 year old indeed! I'll be 35 in May and am kinda freaking out that I am entering the "mature" stage for TTC. You inspire me Poppy!


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## poppy666

35 is still really young :happydance: my sisters 36 and 7wks pregnant, i concieved korben at 39 and had him at 40 so your perfectly fine :hugs: Its me who needs to worry now im 41 in March so better get my ass into gear :dohh:


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## allmuddledup

That's very encouraging to hear, about you and your sister. I really hope our luck will be in this year.


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## Suze

Allmuddled sounds good that you've had no bleeding or anything for 24 hours now. Will you do opk's soon? Sorry I can't totally remember I'd you said you'd ttc straight away or not :dohh:
Poppy good news too that you might be back to 'normal' too :thumbup: Sdme question about the opk's....? 
Ive only ever take pre-natal vitamins. 

I went to my gp today who examined my stomach which was fine but then prescribed me 2 lots of antibiotics due to me having described the smell of the blood as metallic. But in typical fashion I've actually had no bleeding at all today (well a bit of brown) so I'm not sure whether to take the antibiotics, or just 1 lot. 

Having a difficult time with OH though who despite saying last week he'd ntnp has now said no way to ttc, isn't prepared to risk another loss. I'm gutted to be honest


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## allmuddledup

Oh Suze, I'm so sorry to hear that! I know how impossibly frustrating it can be when you and OH aren't on the same page in this situation. I went through it when we had ectopic pregnancy, but at that point it was only because we hadn't been TTC and he just wasn't ready yet. At least in that case it was just a matter of waiting for the right time, not a case of "never again". I thought I would go insane waiting (I ended up in counselling at the time just to get through it) but sooner than I'd expected he said was ready to TTC (he also didn't want to see me suffering and I think decided it wasn't that big a deal whether we waited or not). I hope your OH will come around and not put things off for long. I feel your pain and frustration and am sending you massive hugs. Perhaps if you can talk to him about how it makes you feel to not have the chance of conceiving again (whether you are TTC or NTNP) he might see things differently. You've both lost babies (more than anyone should ever have to) and are each processing the losses in your own ways. I truly hope you will both be back on the same page soon and able to heal together.

I'll come back and reply to the other points in your post in a fewminutes. Gotta hustle my son into bed. Naughty mummy.


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## allmuddledup

Okay, I'm back, after a few necessary distractions. Now to Suze's questions...

Me and OH are going to NTNP once my first period comes. I find it too painful to not have the option of conceiving but I also don't want to get all hung up on TTC. I get really obsessive about it and OH gets wary. I won't be using OPKs or BBT charting at this point (but I've no doubt I will be checking my cervix and looking for CM every time I am in the toilet). If we are :sex: regularly and still haven't got BFP in 2-3 cycles then I think we will actively TTC again. 

To be honest, I am just emotionally exhausted after our most recent loss and know I have a lot more healing to do emotionally and that getting a BFP will probably cause me more stress than joy at this point (or at least until we get through the first trimester) so I am not going to trip over myself to get to that place again. That said, I need to have the possibility there and I know that it will help me along in the healing process to try to make life again. We just have to hope for the best and that it doesn't end the way it has the last 3 times. Fingers are crossed so tight I can hardly type!

Suze, in regards to the antibiotics, did the doctor say why they thought you should take them? The metallic smell of blood alone doesn't necessarily mean there is an infection, nor does the presence or absence of bleeding. For me, pain has always been the best indicator. The only way to know for sure is to have a swab done. If you get any odours (with or without blood) I would stay aware it could be an infection. I can't really say what you should do. I'm not big on taking antibiotics myself unless I know I need them to recover (in this case I knew I did because of the pain and I didn't want to take the risk of an infection damaging my insides) as they always clean out all my good bacteria which is a pain in the bum, literally! I've just ordered some probiotics to help sort me out there, so add that to the list of vitamins and supplements I take!

I don't know if any of that information will be useful to you, but just know I am wishing you the best, that there is no infection (or that it is gone quickly if there is) and that you and OH will be on the same page again soon. I am learning that this all just takes time, too much damn time...

On a positive note, I have barely cried today and am starting to feel a bit closer to normal. It was an odd day as my son was home sick from school with a fever, but he was a delight to be around and I think that has helped immensely. 

I was curious, Suze and Poppy, how old are your little ones? My son is 5 (going on 15). Hugs to you. :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

I have such a love-hate relationships with antibiotics. On the pro side I love the fact that they squash infections; on the con side I hate that they squash my good bacteria. I am really feeling the effects and it isn't pleasant. I'm still waiting for my probiotics to arrive so I can sort that side of things out.

I other news, I am not feeling as up today as I was yesterday. I didn't manage to get out of bed and do normal activities until after 3pm when my son arrived home from school. Thank god for my partner. He has been such an angel, dropping off and picking up our little guy from school. I can't bare to go there at the moment. There are a few mums at the school that knew we were expecting and I can't face them at the moment as I know I will need to tell them at some point but I am just not ready to yet. 

Nearly had a BFN today. The faintest line came up after about 10 minutes. I expect it will be a true BFN tomorrow. Based on previous experiences, I expect my period to come during the second week of February. I welcome and dread it at the same time. We are only planning to use protection until I've had my first period then we will NTNP. I am looking forward to that but feel a little fearful as well. 

We truly do want to try again but I can't quite imagine embracing another BFP with the same joy as last time. We've learned too many times just how badly things can go wrong and I'm more than just a little terrified that we will find out that we haven't seen everything yet. Please let the next one be one we can keep.


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## poppy666

Suze said:


> Allmuddled sounds good that you've had no bleeding or anything for 24 hours now. Will you do opk's soon? Sorry I can't totally remember I'd you said you'd ttc straight away or not :dohh:
> Poppy good news too that you might be back to 'normal' too :thumbup: Sdme question about the opk's....?
> Ive only ever take pre-natal vitamins.
> 
> I went to my gp today who examined my stomach which was fine but then prescribed me 2 lots of antibiotics due to me having described the smell of the blood as metallic. But in typical fashion I've actually had no bleeding at all today (well a bit of brown) so I'm not sure whether to take the antibiotics, or just 1 lot.
> 
> Having a difficult time with OH though who despite saying last week he'd ntnp has now said no way to ttc, isn't prepared to risk another loss. I'm gutted to be honest

Hi Suze so sorry didnt reply earlier sweetie, i cant relate to why your OH dont want to try at the mo cos im not in that situation, but i really hope your ok you not been on today dont think but we're getting a bit worried so hope your online soon :hugs:


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## Suze

Hi I'm back :hi:

Had a difficult time with OH and more heart to hearts about the whole ttc thing, it's in my journal but basically he feels his insistence to wait actually would serve no purpose other than to drive a bigger wedge between us and his fear of losing me and Ava is greater than that of another pregnancy loss....so it seems like a result in my favour BUT I do feel that his heart isn't in it..oh well hopefully I'll get a positive opk in a couple of weeks and I'll jump. 

I didn't take the antibiotics, I feel my gp was being precautionary which I understand but I'm also of the same opinion regarding over use of tablets etc. 

I'm pleased you've got good support from your OH, always a good help. Hopefully you'll have a better day tomorrow. Great about the hpt too, I was in pretty much the same situation today too but haven't got any more left to do tomorrow unless my bundle of opk and hpt's arrive :blush: If you don't mind me asking when you had your ectopic did you lose a tube? I lost my right one. 

I have a daughter Ava who is exactly 18 months old, she's a little star - of course I would say that!!!

Poppy you're an inspiration, I too was thinking about my biological clock ticking, I'm 37 in a couple of weeks and I think that's why I'm feeling more desperate than in previous losses to get on with ttc again. Btw dud you say you got the soy isoflavones from tesco?


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## poppy666

Ahhhhhhhhhh Suze you got plenty of time 37 is nothing and yes Tesco's yellow lid bottle on the supplement/vitamin isle you cant miss it :happydance:

Really glad you and OH talked, i find the less you talk about ttc ie opk's, charting etc the less stressed OH gets and it dont feel a chore to them if they dont know everything 'if you get me' :winkwink:


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## Suze

^ yes I agree, the more blissfully ignorant they are the better! My OH said tonight how all the ttc, ovulating, testing etc is quite stressful and I just said "you don't know the half of it love" .... Leave the peeing on sticks and cd counting to us :rofl:


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## allmuddledup

This is Day 18 and I'm still getting the faintest positives on the HPTs but now it is only apparent once the test has fully dried so I reckon the HCG must be within a couple of days of being out of my system. Last night was the first time since we we said goodbye to Gerri that me and OH :sex:. It was so needed, though possibly a little too soon... I am still getting the tiniest bit of spotting and after we :sex: I started cramping. I am still getting cramps now, 24 hours later. I am still on my antibiotics so I don't think it is related to the infection. I am probably just really tender due to everything my body has been through lately (labour, ERPC, infection...). I'm seeing my GP tomorrow so I will ask her if she thinks the cramping and continued spotting is anything to worry about or not.

Hope everyone else is doing well and still progressing towards normality. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Hey sweetie it was day 21 when i finally got my bfn im sure yours wont be long and i hope the doctor helps, but like you said you been through a lot so im guessing it will still be tender inside :hugs:


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## sunnysun

Intersting, didn't know that Soy helps O. I have switched to soy milk over 6 months ago, wonder if this helps too or whether you need to take specifically the suppl?

It's an inspiration seeing you in your late 30s eary 40s TTC and getting pg, I am 32 and hoping to have my first one soon ( recovery time from a ms at moment, the long wait to AF/normality)

:dust:


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## Suze

Yes allmuddledup we are well and truly in the same boat here with the faintest of bfp's still lingering! If I had been ttc I actually would have discounted what I can *just* see on the stupid sticks!!

Pleased to hear you and you OH getting close again too, I think it makes you feel a bit normal when everything else at the moment quite abnormal! We'd dtd last week and it was only then that my bleeding flared up again so I am thinking that the cervix must be really quite sensitive after the erpc. Hopefully your GP will keep you right. Can I ask what antibiotics you are taking? I started taking the amoxicillin today as my bleeding is still ongoing, smells a bit funny and my cervix does feel tender. I haven't taken the metronidazole that I was given to take too though...

I was meaning to ask if you plan to do anything special to remember little Gerri by?


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## poppy666

sunnysun said:


> Intersting, didn't know that Soy helps O. I have switched to soy milk over 6 months ago, wonder if this helps too or whether you need to take specifically the suppl?
> 
> It's an inspiration seeing you in your late 30s eary 40s TTC and getting pg, I am 32 and hoping to have my first one soon ( recovery time from a ms at moment, the long wait to AF/normality)
> 
> :dust:

Sunnysun there is two Soy Isoflavone ( supplements) threads ive listed below for you and yes it helps some but not others, i didnt know if i ov'd or not every month so thought id give it a go.

https://www.babyandbump.com/trying-to-conceive/387010-soy-isoflavones-poll.html


https://www.babyandbump.com/ttc-groups/271211-soy-isoflavones-natures-clomid.html


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## Suze

By the way I just read your posts from way back (2009) when you were talking about your desire to get pregnant again immediately and talking about being honest and not wanting to get deceptive about it all, that's exactly how I was thinking earlier on this week too :blush:
I also notice we've had the same 'type' of losses, they've just happened in a different order - ectopic, 2nd tri chromosomal loss and 1st tri miscarriage. It can only mean one thing......BFP and sucessful pregnancies for us both next :thumbup:


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## allmuddledup

sunnysun said:


> Intersting, didn't know that Soy helps O. I have switched to soy milk over 6 months ago, wonder if this helps too or whether you need to take specifically the suppl?

From what I've read about Soy & Soy Isoflavones since Poppy told me about it, the soy isoflavones need to be used for only a short time each month at a specific point in your cycle to trigger ovulation. It has been recommended by some natural remedy doctors to not eat/drink soy if you are having fertility problems because soy has a sort of estroegen in it (and that's what makes soy isoflavones work on your cycle). I hope that helps. There is a wealth of information on the Internet and the Links Poppy posted are a good starting point. Good luck and fingers crossed for you!


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## allmuddledup

Thanks everyone for following my story. God I wish I didn't have one like this to tell. It sucks being in this boat but at least I've got some lovely ladies sharing the journey.

I've been feeling a bit down today but not my worst so I can be thankful for that at least. I saw the GP this morning and she isn't concerned about the cramping or continued spotting, but said to come back if either get worse. She also extended the 5mg folic acid prescription by 2 months which is a relief. I was worried they might be dismissive of my concerns on the matter, but so far so good.

This morning the HPT appeared negative again until it dried and again got the faintest pink line after. I reckon it will be another 2 days now before all the HCG is gone. 

I spoke to the hospital today about Gerri's funeral. It will be either the last week of January or first week of February. They should be able to give me a date early next week. I am so thankful they are arranging everything for us. I don't know how I could cope with arranging my first funeral at this stage. I should still be looking forward to my baby's due date, not her funeral. I am really hating the powers that be right now.

How's everyone else holding up today?


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## sunnysun

thank you for the links and suggestions ladies, will have a look it now. I have PCOS so O is always a mistery!

Wishing you all a speedy recovery- I mc 14 days ago but too scared to take the test again, I just about finished spotting (hopefully).


Allmuddleup- it's nice that the hospital are arranging the funeral for your baby,you will be able to say goodbye to your baby, she will always be with you but this may also allow you to move on and hope for the better in the near future.:hugs::flower:


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## Suze

Morning!

It will be good to get the date for Gerri's funeral soon, to give you something to aim for. I have to say I too was pleased that the hospital arranged Joe's too, it would have been too much I think to do myself. Do you have any ideas about any flowers you will want to take? Joe's ashes were scattered in the garden of remembrance which is very near to us and I like to go there now and then....I hope it's OK for me to say this to you?

Hows the bleeding/spotting or hpt's? I got a negative hpt yesterday which was good and I just have a tiny bit of 'mucky' spotting. I did an opk which looked almost positive again though today which has confused me!


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## poppy666

Suze i still got the mucky spotting too atm Ugh :dohh: gonna do OPK today see how everything going there, id just dtd just incase sweetie thats all im doing x


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## Suze

^ I'll be keen to hear what your opk shows up, how many days post erpc are you now? I did 2 opk's pics are in my journal but think i'll just dtd in cse :haha::blush:


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## poppy666

Its been 25 days since erpc, but going to start the OPKs today.. going shopping then will post it here if you want xx


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## allmuddledup

Hello again ladies. I am here to catch up on addressing questions and making comments on earlier posts that I didn't get to the other day (I've been in a bit of a fog but making more effort today). 

To Suze, I did not actually lose a tube but I am under the care of a consultant that wants to investigate the damage done by the ectopic (i.e. Adhesions). I feel very lucky to have all my parts in place but there is a good chance that there was damage done by the ectopic, both from attachment to my left ovary and the journey the tissue had to make down my Fallopian tube. I did not have surgery or even drugs, just a lot of scans and blood tests to monitor how things were progressing. I hope you find my old posts helpful in seeing how normal it is to go all nutty about TTC after a loss. 

Fortunately (or unfortunately), I am not in the same position or state of mind as last time. I think things are different for me this time around due to 3 things: 1) my body doesn't need as long to recover from this loss so I don't have any doctors telling me to wait; 2) my OH is completely on board with TTC again; 3) being my 3rd loss, not my 1st, has worn me out and nearly broken me. I actually want to give myself a bit of time to recover emotionally that I did not feel the need for before. That said, I am still feeling a strong aversion to birth control (condoms and diaphragm) which I have indulged, so it's possible that nutty-Ellen could come back if I were to force them on us right now.

Now it's time for my TMI segment. Yay! The first time me and OH got back to DTD I was still getting spotting so I knew we needed to use protection for the sake of preventing further infection. As my last experience with condoms had me in tears (when OH wasn't ready to TTC) I have grown an extra aversion to them so I opted for using my diaphragm which provides enough barrier protection for the situation. Well, after we :sex: I started cramping and spotting again which continued for all of the next day. As for the diaphragm, it caused me so much discomfort afterwards that I had to take it out early. Since then, all cramping and spotting appears to have stopped (cramping was only on Wednesday night through Thursday, last spotting was Friday morning and very very light) so when we went to DTD again last night (we're making up for lost time!!) and it was time to get the condoms out (which I had talked to OH about after the problems with the diaphragm) I was like "I think we're fine without one" and he's like "okay, if you say so" so we went ahead without any protection. I'm happy my body is back to normal (at least, no infection, bleeding or pain) but my head is not. All the same though, I don't want to prevent pregnancy even now, when I know that seeing a BFP would bring me more fear than joy. We're funny creatures, eh? I can say that because I know I'm not the only one who would put emotion over reason in this situation.

Oh ho! I see you ladies have been getting busy with the chat while I was writing, so I will have to add more later. Have to get in the shower now though I'm afraid as I am going to take my son to see some close friends. May not be back till tomorrow, so will have to reply in full. Just a couple of quick replies first...

Poppy, what type of HPTs and OPKs due you use? I know Suze and I use internet cheapies from eBay (HPTs 10miu, OPKs 20miu).

Suze, of course it's okay to ask about Gerri's funeral. I hadn't thought about flowers TBH. I'm not good at these things, not had much practice with funerals (the last I went to were my grandparents' over 10 years ago and I had nothing to do with the planning). When I buy flowers, I tend to get them at Tesco, which hardly seems appropriate for my little one. I dunno. I will be speaking to the Chaplain next week so will ask what people do in these cases. In quick answer to your earlier question of what we plan to do in memory of Gerri, we are going to plant a little tree. Just working up the courage to go to the garden centre to arrange it all. I am not very functional at the moment. Where did you put your flowers for Joe? I'm not even sure where we would put them for Gerri. The hospital said it is unlikely there will be any ashes left as Gerri is so tiny (only 14 weeks) but they will give them to us if there are any to give. I was thinking I'd like to scatter them in the New Forest if there are any left but I can't count on that. It will probably end up being the garden of remembrance at the hospital for us as well if there are no ashes to take away.

I feel surprisingly okay while writing this. The co-codamol doesn't hurt though. I use it for back pain (long story there) and a little for relaxation when I need it (I needed it for both this morning). I'd be having wine or some other alcohol but I don't know that I would be able to stop if I started. At least my prescription will run out eventually and the doctor won't give me more if I go back too soon so it seems a safer option at the moment when emotions are likely to drive me to extremes. Anyone else out there able to relate?


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## allmuddledup

Good luck with your OPKs Poppy. I see you are on Day 25 since ERPC.

I am on Day 20 A.G. (After Gerri. It's my new way of dating things).

What day are you on Suze?

In regards to spotting, last I saw was yesterday morning. It could still come back but hoping it won't. Regarding OPKs, I won't be using them at the moment. I get a bit crazy-obsessed when I actively chart (I did it all before... OPKs, BBT, internal checks for CP and CM) and, thankfully, at the moment, I am content to just NTNP. Emotional bruising is finally paying off and having a calming effect on my TTC obsession. Hah.

:hugs: to you all. xox


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## poppy666

Same OPK just my camera is rubbish lol... i think another few days what you think?

https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll294/zana637/OPKs15thJan002.jpg


https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll294/zana637/OPKs15thJan001.jpg​


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## Suze

Poppy yeah I'd say thats not quite positive although I've never used that brand

allmuddledup good to hear that you've got the :sex: back on...being a bit relaxed might just bring you a nice surprise! It's also good to have that cloeseness again I think, makes you feel a bit more normal and it's a bit of a novelty having non-baby maiking sex :haha:
I'm 17 days since my erpc now and feeling OK, although I have my due date looming in 10 days for my little boy. I'm just quite keen to get to know my cycles at the moment.

After I had the ectopic we'd been ttc for 8 months with no luck and so I was sent for a HSG (have you heard of it?) to basically x-ray an see what condition my remaining tube was in, it was fine but I also wonder if this procedure actually opened up the tube as I conceived Ava 2 weeks later! You may have already had this or it may be worth discussing with your consultant?

For Joe's funeral we simply took a white rose for him. As it was in the summer Ava also picked a little pink rose out of the garden for him (obviously she didn't know what it was for!). We placed these on his coffin after it was brought in. The garden of remembrance is actually in our cemetry which is a really old beautiful place so I quite like the fact his ashes were scattered there. I think it's lovely that you will plant a tree for her :cloud9:


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## allmuddledup

Ooh, hard to say Poppy. Have you used this brand before? It looks like you might be getting a lead up to the surge but you may have to get to know your usual OPK patterns before you can know for sure. I've only ever used Internet Cheapies plus I have PCOS so most of my tests look like that until I get my surge proper. Fingers crossed. Keep your results coming! Xox


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## poppy666

I usually get Asda's but went to 3 stores and all sold out so went home bargains, they much the same so im guessing in next few days it will go positive BUT wont confirm if i ov'd till my chart confirms it, we will see what tomorrows looks like xx


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## allmuddledup

Suze, you've got that right about the non-babymaking sex. It has really helped me to start feeling more normal about life in general and of course it's good for us. :)

I think that is a really nice idea about the rose for Joe. I think I would like to do something like that as well. I was thinking I'd like to put a letter to Gerri and a photograph of me, OH and son in her coffin. A simple flower or two would be nice as well. Thank you for sharing your experience with me Suze. It's terrible to be going through this. I'm so sorry you've been in this place. I hope you can get through Joe's due date without too much heartache. I am dreading 26 June myself. It still feels like a long way off. I'm hoping to do a lot of healing in that time but it doesn't seem like anything will make it easier when the day comes.

I'm not sure what an HSG is but I'll read up on it. My consultant wants to have a look around with a laparoscopy though I don't know if that is still going ahead as I had to cancel it once due to falling pregnant (I had actually conceived Gerri 3 days before the consultation but didn't yet know it). It took 7 months after ther early miscarriage before we managed to. I'm not sure what to expect now but I am going to try to hang onto the relaxed NTNP and see what happens.


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## Suze

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterosalpingography

That's the info on the HSG, I have to be honest it is very painful but I feel it was worth having done. It was also quite cool watching on the screen in front of me, the dye flowing through the tube!

I don't know if you girls saw this but I have just ordered some: 
https://www.babyandbump.com/ttc-after-loss/507605-10miu-opks.html

...to feed my addiction :blush:


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## poppy666

Yep just seen them Suze may buy some lmao gonna go do another OPK i think :wacko:


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## Suze

I'm doing 2x OPK's a day at the mo, one with 2nd morning pee and one at tea time :blush:


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## poppy666

I did one around 3pm and just done one now 'gotta wait 10 mins' but not missing this surge if i get one xxx


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## Suze

Any surge poppy?!! Or maybe you're away making the most of it :haha:


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## poppy666

Exactly same colour line as this afternoon so still waiting, but on a normal cycle i dont start testing till CD11 'which is tomorrow' so wait, wait, wait :dohh: How was yours? x


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## Suze

These were mine this morning, 2 different brands same pee and I got excited at the blue one but don't have any left :dohh: The tea time one was totally negative though
 



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## poppy666

Blue one looks fab, id just keep bedding Suze just incase :happydance: thats what im doing :thumbup: told my OH to try get back home for Monday night :haha:


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## Gem09

Are you doing ovulation tests than rather waiting for your periods or am i completely off track? Or is it checking hcg levels? 

Forgive me if i way off the line! x


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## poppy666

Heyyy Gem nice to see you over here sweetie, we already done our hcg levels and mine's been negative since Tuesday ( took 21 days) ive been doing them everyday since, all BFN. These are ovulation tests just to see if our regular cycle is coming back 'which it looks like it is' x


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## Suze

The opk's confused me Poppy, think I might have to try for :sex: later/in the morning just in case

Yeah Gem I think we are being a bit naughty here as I've not had a period yet :blush: I'm not 100% I'd ov first cycle and I know I'd not be so lucky as to get pg straight away anyway but I think it helps me focus and just find out where my cycle is


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## Gem09

Ohhh wow really Poppy, i might have to get one and see if my cycle is on the way, ive counted 30 days since miscarriage so im praying its soon!

Lets hope we all get our period soon and hopefully be sharing good news in a few weeks/months or so! 

xxx


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## poppy666

Suze many a women can get pregnant before their af, but yes we being naughty :tease: :haha:


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## poppy666

Gem09 said:


> Ohhh wow really Poppy, i might have to get one and see if my cycle is on the way, ive counted 30 days since miscarriage so im praying its soon!
> 
> Lets hope we all get our period soon and hopefully be sharing good news in a few weeks/months or so!
> 
> xxx

Gem i like your PMA :happydance::happydance: we'll get there :hugs:


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## Gem09

It wont do any harm though will it Suze! Positivity is the way forward! xxx


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## Suze

poppy666 said:


> Suze many a women can get pregnant before their af, but yes we being naughty :tease: :haha:

:rofl: I'd rather be having a laugh about being naughty than crying about our losses


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## poppy666

Too true Suze, too true :hugs: and in a few months we'll all be crying about morning sickness :haha:


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## Gem09

Didnt experience morning sickness in the 11 weeks i was pregnant for, only had really sore boobs! I obviously thought at the time i was getting an easy pregnancy, until i started to bleed of course x


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## poppy666

No i didnt get morning sickness or sore bbs with my loss, i did get terrible bachache on and off which was from ovulation tho, but saying that i had no sickness with two of my other boys just sore bbs. So i think its true when you read about miscarriages some have loads of symptoms and some dont but they still miscarry x


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## Gem09

Yeah its really weird!
What i dont understand is, will period come 4/6 weeks after miscarriage or 4/6 weeks after stopped bleeding? Im a little confused by that as i cant find an answer anywhere? x


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## poppy666

4/6wks after miscarriage... im still spotting on and off, but my 2nd bleed EPU said it was my af which would of been 16 days after my erpc, but im not too sure about that so just waiting and see what my body does, but if it isnt my af i will only wait till about 5wks then im going doctors and asking for something to bring my af on ( which they can do ive read about it) x


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## poppy666

Right im off to bed to attack OH lmao see you tomorrow Gem and Suze, sleep well sweeties xx


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## Gem09

Ohhh right thanks for that Poppy! I think if i havent had a period by beginning of feb i will make an appointment with my doctor! x


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## Suze

Gem sorry I don't know your story did you have an erpc or miscarry naturally? I lost my baby boy at 17 weeks in August and had to deliver him, I got a negative hpt 2 days later and then I got my period 33 days later. This time I'm 18 days after the erpc but only got a negative hpt 2 days ago so I'm curious to see what happens :wacko:


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## Gem09

Haha you go for it Poppy!

Nighty night, hope to speak again!

Take care both of you xxx


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## Gem09

Ohhhh Suze so sorry to hear that!
I miscarried naturally on the 16th December, i was 11 weeks but it had stopped growing at 8! 

I just want to get pregnant again sooo badly!

x


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## allmuddledup

Gem, there is a really good website with the answers to most questions you might have after a miscarriage. Try this link: www.pregnancyloss.info/recovery.htm for information about what to expect. I hope it helps answer some of your questions. Xox


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## Gem09

Awwww thankyou very much, i will take a look at that xxx


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## poppy666

Well here's my OPKs pfft x

Top = 3pm yesterday

Middle = 10.30pm last night

Bottom = 3pm Today 

https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll294/zana637/opks002.jpg​


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## allmuddledup

Ooh Poppy, looks like the middle one could be a surge. Do you check your cervical position & CM as well? If your cervix is high and soft with extra CM then I would say you've got a surge there and to expect O very soon (within about 24-72 hours from start of surge). Go grab your man and go for it! Lol. Fingers crossed for you. xox


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## poppy666

I do generally but only noticed a bit wet last night not any ewcm but looked like it was getting ready to produce some, didnt check my cp tho :dohh:


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## Suze

I'd definitely say the middle one too/last nights. I also wonder if cm at the mo is not the best signs to go off so soon after our losses. Have you dtd?! 
I might have got a positive this morning too (a brand I've not used so am nit sure if this is what would be a positive on this brand), it's on one of my other threads in ttc ( I'm on phone now of would have put it in here). I've done another this evening and it's most definitely negative :shrug:


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## poppy666

Hi Suze yep dtd but im still spotting so i dunno if all this spotting would halt anything? dunno if to post a question in the 'pregnancy after loss' thread :shrug:


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## allmuddledup

I'm glad to hear us ladies are getting our lovin' on. Also happy to report that I still haven't had any spotting since Friday morning and seem to be back to normal physically. Yay!

Me and OH have also been DTD again tonight. It's so good to have that side of things back to normal. I'm still a tiny bit tender inside at times but I'm sure it's normal under the circumstances.

I hope everyone else is moving swiftly towards normality as well. I'm still under functioning with my general activities but everyday I move a little closer to being okay.


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## poppy666

I was tender last night more to the right and i was using preseed, just one more time tonight then rest x


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## Suze

We all seem to have been 'at it' today :haha: Poppy I still reckon some of the spotting could be from the cervix :shrug:


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## poppy666

Dont know Suze its still bright red, was a constant flow from 6th but last 3 days its been stop, start, stop spotting, starts more when ive dtd x


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## allmuddledup

Yeah, I think Suze could be right about it possibly being your cervix Poppy. I guess I'm the lucky one here (yay! Finally!) in the spotting category. I know my cervix felt strange for about 2 weeks after the ERPC (like there was a little fleshy ruffle poking out of it. TMI?) but it's all back to normal now. I just have to try not to monitor it now or I'll start to obsess about CP & CM and will be just as bad as if I was using OPKs. I keep having to remind myself that we aren't TTC at the moment, just trying to heal and letting nature take it's course in the meantime. I tried to picture in my mind how I would react to a BFP at the moment and the me in my head just feels a bit of hope mixed with grief for havin lost Gerri. That tells me I'm not ready to TTC, but it still feels right to NTNP. I don't know if that makes sense at all. Prolly a sign I should go to sleep. :hugs:


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## poppy666

You mean my cervix being irritable or sore? i know when ive checked it or dtd its not hurt x


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## Suze

It sounds like NTNP is the thing for you at the moment and you seem quite contented about doing so which is good :thumbup: Its a good way of thinking about it, how you feel atthe sight of a BFP....I actually think I' feel OK and don't know whether I should be feeling like that :wacko:

As for cervixes (is that the right term?!) mine seems to hurt if I check, just did it today and I feel quite achey from doing it...it was really really high though :thumbup:


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## poppy666

Just done tonights OPK and its gone lighter so negative, if my temp rises now for 3 days think Fertilty friend will say i ov'd today.. if it dont rise i didnt ov this cycle xx

Hmmm do you think this spotting all the time will interfere with ttc ladies? x


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## allmuddledup

Hah, despite my best efforts I am still awake, so I am back.

Poppy, I meant that Suze may be onto something with her guess about your continued bleeding. It could be coming from your cervix as a result of DTD after ERPC or perhaps it's just normal bleeding while your uterus continues to try to normalise after the miscarriage and ERPC. It's so hard to guess. If it continues I would definitely call the EPU to get there opinion. It helps that you have gotten the BFN as that can probably rule out the bleeding being caused by remaining tissue from the pregnancy. it's also good that you are not getting any pain or tenderness from your cervix. My guess, if I may, is that your hormones are probably still a bit out of whack from the pregnancy and that may be what is behind the bleeding. 

Suze, I had cervical tenderness too at your stage but it went when the spotting finally stopped. I wouldn't worry about it just yet but if it's still tender in a few days I would recommend talking to your doctor again. I'm sorry I never responded to your query about the antibiotics. I was given metronidazole and co-amoxiclav. The metronidazole is specifically aimed at infections in the reproductive organs. If you take either drug, that's the one I would recommend. The co-amoxiclav has amoxicillin and something else, also aimed at targeting infections in the nether regions. If the tenderness does not improve, that also could be signs of an infection but I wouldn't worry to much at this point unless it is actually painful (more than just tender) because the ERPC alone can cause that sort of tenderness and it just takes time for our bodies to recover. 

As for how you would feel Suze about a BFP, what you feel is what is right for you. just as our bodies heal at different speeds and in different ways, so do our hearts and minds. I look forward to the day I can be happy about a BFP and not just filled with trepidation.

I hope you found my two-cents helpful. May we all get back to normal sooooon!!!


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## allmuddledup

To address Poppy's Q: yes, spotting can interfere because the pH of blood isn't likely to be very sperm friendly but if you actually do ovulate this cycle (fingers crossed) then I reckon using the preseed would have helped normalise the pH balance (at least in your vagina) that could get a bit messed up by the spotting. I suppose the extent of the effect it has would also depend on where it's coming from (cervix or lining of uterus). Either way, Good luck!!!!


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## poppy666

Aww thanks sweetie made it a lot clearer now and i will ring epu this week if it continues, im more concerned now if do ovulate this weekend and OH spermies meet egg if its going to stop anything :dohh: arghhhh i need to try relax and not worry so much x

Edited lol you just answered my question 'your a star' yes used preseed everytime xx


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## allmuddledup

Oh, Suze, just thought of something else regarding what you said about your CP. High and soft is a very good sign of O, but I wouldn't read too much into it until your cervix has returned to normal first because it could just be like that during the healing process. That said, after I had the early miscarriage in March I could feel O everytime it happened. my entire pelvic region would become tender and sore to touch and tender upon sitting, etc for the few days around surge and ovulation. Is the cervical soreness you are getting new or has it been that way since ERPC?


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## Suze

My cervix was actually really low a few days ago so I am thinking (hoping!) ov as it has definitely changed position in the last few days. The soreness is new, it wasn't like that directly after the erpc it does seem to be after I have checked my cp.

Poppy are you having to use a pad or anything or is it just on wiping? 
I would suggest that if you have just ovulated as you'll enter the luteal phase, the progesterone would (I think!!) thicken the uterus and so the spotting might stop...and if a beanie were to nestle in there would be plenty of lining for him/her to do so...I think that's what you were worried about weren't you? I have to admit that I worry if I've been a bit reckless in dtd when I am pretty sure I'm fertile without having had a period first :blush:

allmuddledup I worry that we have all hijacked your thread here when you'd initially posted about infection....however I have to say I'm finding it really helpful that we've all carried on supporting each other as we're roughly the same stages!


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## poppy666

Yes Suze im using something still :dohh: 25 days and counting lol... just had a bath and my cervix was high up and spotting :haha:


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## allmuddledup

Suze, that's a really good sign then I reckon if the changes are only recent. Fingers crossed for you that you O this cycle. Do you chart your BBT? That should help confirm if you ovulate. Good luck!!! You keep saying you are being reckless, but I think you just want a baby. It's okay to TTC again now if that's what you really want to do. I think Doctors like for us to wait until we've had AF to make sure we've returned to normal and to make the dating easier but I don't know of any other reasons apart from personal choice based on how we'd feel about the uncertainty of when new baby was conceived. Do you know of any other reason to wait? Did your doctor give you a reason?

Poppy, the high CP could certainly be a good sign (especially coupled with the pos OPK). As for the effect of continued spotting, if women can conceive while on their period (rare but it has happened due to flukes in cycles) then you've got a chance I reckon. I would try not to get too bummed out if it doesn't happen this soon after the miscarriage though as your body is still trying to get back to normal and might not respond in the same way it would otherwise. I think charting your temps is the best way to help manage your expectations though, at least you'll be able to confirm if you've ovulated. Fingers crossed!!

Please don't worry about the thread going off topic. It really helps me to come here and see you ladies chatting away and responding to my posts. It's good to have friends here that can understand what each other is going through. Please don't go away!!!!


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## poppy666

Not going anywhere think your stuck with us on here now sweetie :haha: x


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## Suze

poppy666 said:


> Not going anywhere think your stuck with us on here now sweetie :haha: x

Yep exactly!


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## poppy666

Morning Suze well i got the goods last night but boy did i bleed after :haha: gonna call myself spotty poppy lol.. also my temps went up so next few days i'll know if i ov'd. How you? x


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## allmuddledup

Yay for the elevated temps Spotty Poppy! Sounds like your body is doing it's damnedest to ovulate. Fingers crossed temps stay up for at _least_ two weeks! Wonder what your doctor will say about the continued bleeding. I know you must be so frustrated waiting to get back to normal.

Lol. I'm so happy to be "stuck" with you two. Couldn't ask for two lovelier buddies. :)

I went to the GP today about extending my time off work. Fortunately she was lovely about it and signed me off a further 3 weeks so I can get through Gerri's funeral, then we will talk about easing me back into work. I'm lucky to have such good healthcare people looking after me. I would be so stressed out if they weren't bothered and just told me to get on with it (like the consultant I spoke to after the ectopic pregnancy when I was practically fainting from blood loss and he was like "just carry on with activity as usual." Not the best approach I've heard).

How are you ladies feeling this morning? :hugs:


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## Suze

That's great to hear that you have an understanding GP, mine is great too. I think staying off until after Gerri's funeral is a good idea, that's what I did and then went back on a 'phased return' a couple of weeks later. I don't think you'd be able to concentrate on work otherwise. Then see how you are after that and take it from there, is your employer understanding too? I hope you get the date soon too so you know where you are.

Morning spotty Poppy :haha: I think it has to be increased cervix sensitivity after the erpc. I hope it clears up for you soon, as least you'll know if you have ov'd from your temps.

We dtd again last night, I was quite surprised, twice in one day :blush: I'm just waiting to pee on the opk at the moment....can't wait actually!! It hasn't been 3 weeks yet but I'm already wondering when my results will come in, they said 4-6 weeks


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## poppy666

I agree with Suze you really dont need any added pressure with Gerri's funeral coming up, nice to hear you have a very understanding doctor, as for your consultant thats disgraceful treatment :growlmad:

Suze yahhhh for getting the goods :happydance:

Ive got doctors Thurseday think im suffering a bit of depression 'not been myself and im flying off the handle with OH and LO at the slightest thing' so i need to speak to him and see what he says, ive not felt like this since the miscarriage think ive had it for months after LO was born, but since the miscarriage i think thats push me over the edge more so needs sorting. Will mention the spotting whilst im there x


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## Suze

Oh dear Poppy that doesn't sound good :hugs: I think if there has been something lying a bit dormant then I'm sure the mc will have pushed it over the edge. Have you sufferred from depression or anything in the past? Good that you've got the docs on Thursday, have you got a good GP? I hope so, it does help in this type of situation. 

My opk was definitely very negative today, am thinking I did have a really short surge


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## poppy666

I dont think i have but im not too good a talking to anyone i bottle things up, hardly go doctors so will see what he says.. 

Yeah think i had a small surge mine was negative last night, guess we have to wait :haha: im not holding out for this cycle more a trial cycle i think x


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## allmuddledup

I forgot to mention earlier that I finally got a total BFN this morning. I didn't feel sad like I feared I would, just relieved. That must be progress, right?

Sooo, based on the final BFN and my previous experiences, I am expecting AF in the second week of February. I'm going to try really hard not to observe any other signs of my cycle lest I work myself into a crazy obsessed TTC state. OH has been 'delivering the goods' every couple of days as promised so it would be self-defeating for me to chart right now anyway. I'm sure the underlying tension created by my obsessing over every little sign is what delayed our conceiving Gerri in the first place (not helped either by PCOS though). 

My employer has been quite understanding which helps. I spoke to HR last week who told me I am entitled to full pay until mid-May so it takes the pressure off there as well. I think I will go back by mid-February. I am finding things get a little easier everyday so, barring any major set-backs, I think that will be okay.

I'm sorry to hear you are feeling so down Poppy. I don't know if it helps to hear it but it is perfectly normal to get depressed after the loss you've had. It is also quite common to get post-natal depression (I was affected by it for almost a full year after my son was born) so you aren't alone. My best advice is to try not to bottle it up, allow yourself to feel what you feel, and don't forget to take care of yourself (or let others take care of you when you need it). I hope the doctor is able to offer some support that you will find helpful. :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Gaaahh!! I can't believe it! I'm spotting again!! I've had no bleeding or spotting since Friday morning until about an hour ago and Blam! There is was when I went to the toilet. I've been getting a little mild cramping today but I thought (optimistically) that maybe it was ovulation approaching (not that I'm thinking about it *whistles and looks away*) or just a side effect of our enthusiasm last night. Oh, I dunno. I want this to end!!! :growlmad:

How are you ladies doing? Any more insights into what's happening with yourselves? Anyone else DTD again? lol. Our OHs must be feeling really lucky the last week, eh?


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## poppy666

Welcome to my spotty world :haha: im having to use something today because its like a light period since we dtd last night... but ive had mild cramps too. 

I said to OH fancy a bit tonight he said ' noooooooooooooooooooooooo im sore' lmao only because ive not been relaxed whilst dtd.

Glad to hear you got your BFN sweetie, but sorry to hear about the spotting :hugs: im actually pissed off with mine now x

As for dtd :nope: ive had my fill 'sort of speak' x


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## allmuddledup

Hi Spotty Poppy, you can call me Spotty Ellen. :haha:

I truly thought I'd got to the end of the cramping and spotting. Guess not. Do you think it could be due to DTD while we are still healing? I'm starting to think so.

I told my OH today that I'm giving him off till Wednesday cuz he didn't show enough enthusiasm for DTD last night. lol. I said he's gonna have to act like he really wants it if he wants to see any action before then (he's always said he needs a full 48 hours to recharge anyway. Why can't men be more like women and ready for it anytime??). The way things are going with my body again, it would probably be best to take a few days off anyway. Sigh...

How you feeling tonight ladies? I've not had a particularly good day, a lot of sluggishness and sleeping, but I've made it through the day now, my son is in bed, the laundry is done, and I am ready to watch some telly! Here I come 'Brothers and Sisters' (it's an addiction I feed by downloading from the internet).


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## poppy666

Nice to meet you Spotty Ellen :haha:

Well if the spotting is caused by DTD my cervix can have a weeks rest now cos im not doing it, im going to mention it Thurseday. Im just going to go put Korben to bed so i can chill out and watch something on TV.

Sorry your day not been so good sweetie :hugs:


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## poppy666

Oh im confused now need advice... since dtd last night ive used about 4 Tampons and bits of clots on last one (tmi) only tiny bits, but can i call this spotting or af? got my positive opk saturday ( negative sunday) temps dramatically dropped sunday ov day and risen again this morning? arghhhhhhhh


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## Suze

Sorry Ellen I think I missed your earlier about you getting a BFN, that's good and also good that you weren't really upset about it too. But a bit of a shame about the spotting being back, I'm going to say it again but I do think its these sensitive 'cervixes'! We've not dtd since our 2x yesterday but I have had ewcm so would like to tonight but OH seems too keen on a quantum physics programme on the tv :dohh:


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## Suze

Oh god Poppy thats awful that you've had to use tampons it must be really heavy :growlmad:
I'm not sure what to suggest and I'd say it's sounds a bit more than my blooming cervix theory :blush: Have you done a opk AND a hpt maybe? I'm not sure what this might show up though because you did get your negative hpt a few days ago didn't you? What about your cervix position, although you might not want to check it with how things are?


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## poppy666

Im not heavy its just a light flow since we dtd at 1am this morning, used 4 tampons in 20hrs... ive tested negative Tuesday and everyday.. opk went positive saturday then back to negative sun n today :shrug:

I dont know Suze lol x will check cervix now im going for a quick bath lol x


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## Suze

I was just laughing at myself advising you to do an opk and hpt....:saywhat: I don't know why I said that, just must be my poas addiction continuing to kick in :haha:

The pair of you with your spotting/bleeding I just wish it would go away for you :growlmad:


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## poppy666

:haha: ok cervix position high can feel it with my finger tip :wacko: deffo not low x :shrug:


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## Suze

Can't be af then, just too much shagging I reckon :rofl:


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## poppy666

:rofl::rofl::rofl: only done it 3 times in a row :blush:

Suze the CP Queen.... i dont understand the cp theory :wacko:


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## allmuddledup

That sounds rather worrying Poppy, not sure what to make of it. Definitely one for the doctor, I reckon. Can you talk to someone before Thursday? I am concerned about your continued yo-yo bleeding/spotting because it's never really stopped for more than a few days and it's been nearly 4 weeks now (that's longer than it should be if things are going the way they should). Also, the fact that the HPT is BFN tells me it's less about retained tissue and possibly to do with a problem healing (Suze's bleeding cervix theory?) or maybe extra messed up hormones sending the wrong signals (I hope not!). 

As for the signs of ovulation, pos OPKs, etc., I have read (and experienced it myself) that you can't usually trust any of these things as a true sign of ovulation when they follow miscarriage so closely. Our bodies are going a little bit haywire right now trying to heal, bounce back from pregnancy, and get back to normal. 

Good luck Suze with getting your man on board. Doh! No pun intended. :haha:

Oh, why us????


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## poppy666

Im going to ring epu in the morning and say ive only had 3 days since mc of no bleeding at all, no wonder im tired and irritable all the time its draining :dohh: ive also read not to rely on opks too so gonna ignore weekends now x


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## Suze

You're right Ellen the negative hpt would would thankfully suggest nothing retained at all. Could you get a telephone appointment with your GP before Thursday if you felt it necessary? And does the blood have any smell? I thought the bleeding I experienced was most definitely not like af blood

The way I see the cp theory and it seems to certainly be the case for me is that it's high and enough room for ... ahem a man :blush: just before and during ov and then goes low after ov and even more so just before af so that no 'man' is needed :haha:


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## poppy666

No smell to it, it just looks like af again with tiny bits of clot.. it started on the 6th but tapered off this thur/fri but once DTD started its a light flow again x

LOL Like how you explained the CP lol im laughing x


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## allmuddledup

Yeah Suze. I like your CP theory. We could prolly make a clever rhyme out of it as well if we tried. Lol.

I'm glad you're calling the EPU tomorrow Poppy. Hopefully they can shed some light on what's happening and hopefully be able to say it's nothing to worry about.

Come to think of it, my doctor told me to come back if the cramping and bleeding got worse. I think I'll give it another day to see if it clears up on it's own first. I reckon it can prolly be put down to all the 'action' I've seen lately. Argh. Why can't life ever just be simple??


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## poppy666

Not rang epu yet but think it could be af... no bleeding after last nights bath but woke up in middle of night with cramping a bleeding again, still lightly bleeding but having to use tampon still. It will be 4wks exactly tomorrow since my mc and i generally have a 28 day cycle :shrug:

MC 22nd Dec = 28 days today x


Edited: Well just rang EPU 'they useless' again they said its my period... i said ' i rang regarding fresh bleeding last week' she just said that could just be from the procedure ' generally you get it 3wks after' but because its 28 days since i MC'd it will be my af 

Got to see how this week goes now if it dont tail off after 7 days got to go up to be seen x Soooooooooooo another flipping ticker :(


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## redarrow

(((hugs))) to you all. Im sorry your losses. I had an infection after my D&C and was in hospital for 10 days. Please get it checked if you think there could be a risk of infection xxx


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## poppy666

Redarrow im so sorry for all your losses sweetie, just read on another thread, i cant even start to imagine how you cope :hugs: has your consultant done tests? hope you dont mind me asking xx


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## allmuddledup

Oh Poppy, I'm sorry to hear the EPU weren't much help. I hope the bleeding stops soon and it all becomes clear. :hugs:

I am not doing well at all myself today. I feel more down than ever. Haven't even gotten out of bed yet except to wee. I woke up and saw my son through getting dressed for school then after my partner took him to school I took a couple of co-codamol to knock myself out so I didn't have to stay conscious today. I knew my OH was going to be going out to spend the day with his mum and I couldn't stand the thought of being alone with my thoughts or doing anything about it as an alternative.

I don't know about you but I don't like being alone right now. That's when I cry and think about what's happened the most.


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## poppy666

Maybe its better to be alone right now and cry sweetie, i know you dont like to be alone, but just let it all out :hug: xxx


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## allmuddledup

Thanks Poppy. I think I will just have to do that.

I spoke to the hospital about Gerri's funeral. They are trying to arrange it for 10am on 1 February but still waiting for confirmation from the Chaplain. They should be able to confirm by the end of the day.

I am feeling a little better now, if numb is better than sad and crying. I think I will brave the bath now. I might have to be called Smelly Spotty Ellie otherwise.


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## poppy666

Let us know if Gerri's funeral is confirmed today sweetie, you got so much to deal with right now just want to give you a huge hug :hugs:

Enjoy your bath Spotty Ellie :haha:


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## Suze

Oh poppy that makes sense then about the af...but what then can have been going on with the opk's?! :wacko: I hope you get some clarity soon. 

Ellen I'm pleased you are a step closer to getting the date for gerri's funeral, it will be good to be able to 'plan' in your head. 

And I'm sorry you're both feeling so down, we've all been through so much physically, emotionally and hormonally. Our hormones have been and continue to be all over the place and this isn't giving us an easy ride at all. Again we must remember it all happened so soon and shouldnt expect (although it would be nice) to be feeling 100% all the time yet. 

Anyway as for my news today, it's all on my journal but I'm absolutely seething. I've had a couple of calls with my consultant today who rang to apologise that despite her and us requesting it, our baby did not get sent to cytogenetics for testing and therefore, as we were promised we'll now never also know the sex, which really upsets me. I'd hoped for this information at least to help me recover emotionally due to my recent loss. Also we could have gained some really valuable information which could have effected me or risks in the future. I'm so angry because this had been mentioned so many times, even as I was in theatre before the op I reminded them that this needed to be done! So, it's all over now and I'm left with questions that could have been answered if people had done their jobs properly :growlmad:


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## poppy666

I dont know Suze about OPKs, ive stopped bleeding atm, but there when i wipe, my stomach has swollen above my pubic bone 'it went down after erpc' tell ya i'll get my BFP and wont even know when i concieved at this rate :haha:

Anyways enough about me, that is disgraceful that your baby wasnt sent to cytogenetics for testing id be more than seething id be heartbroken, i really hope your ok lovely? :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Oh Suze. That is really awful what's happened. It's seriously disgraceful incompetence on the part of the hospital as well. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this on top of everything. Just want to send you big hugs but it seems nothing will make it easier for you to deal with this extra loss and lack of answers and closure. So sorry this has happened to you on top of it all. Thinking of you, sending you my best thoughts. :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Little update on me... Nothing as catastrophic as what poor Suze is having to deal with certainly (thinking of you hunny). After a day spent in bed drugged up on co-codamol so I could pretend the world didn't exist for a little while, I got up and had a bath in time to see my son home from school. Hospital didn't call back today like they said they would but I will ring them again tomorrow to see if I can get final confirmation on Gerri's funeral. I think it will help to have a date to look towards. I started choosing photos I want to get printed to put in her coffin, pictures of her family. Once I know the date for certain I will ring the local flower shop and enquire about flowers. I just want to get a few individual flowers, just need to check if that is something I can do on the day or if I should plan it in advance. I am also going to write her a letter. 

I spent some time cleaning up a picture of her to print up for her album, which is only in planning stage right now. I asked my partner if he would like to see it but he didn't want to. It upset me a bit but I have to accept that he is grieving in his own way and that it might not help him to see her like it does me. I hope he will look at her someday. He didn't want to see her in the hospital either. He didn't say why but I think it's because he doesn't think he could handle it. I respect that though I sometimes wish we could share the experience of remembering her together. I need him strong though and whatever he feels he had to do to get through right now is good for both of us.

In the good news, I haven't had any further bleeding or spotting since yesterday and the cramping ended by the time I got out of bed. I was starting to feel in the mood for a little more loving but OH said he'd rather take one more day off himself to make sure he's running at full power tomorrow. So, looks like all our OHs got some time off for good behaviour. Lol.

Glad things are looking up for you too Poppy. Thinking of you Suze. Hang in there. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Im sure when he's ready sweetie he will look and share that precious moment with you, but like you say men grieve in their own way and maybe this is what he finds bearable at the moment, bless him and you :hugs:

As for the other hmmmm i think a few days off will be better because the spotting has finished and i found when i dtd i started spotting again pfft xx


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## Suze

It sounds like you had a productive latter half of the day, I think it's nice that you have been sorting gerri's picture. It's funny you're so so right about that being a personal thing, before I went in to have Joe at first neither of us realised we'd have the chance to see/hold him but when we realised we could I knew for sure it was something I'd want to do my OH wasnt sure at all and I felt that although we are in this together there are some things that we needed to decide individually. He did decide to hold him but also doesnt look at the photos like I do, I'm so grateful to have them if I'm honest. 
I'm sure you'll choose some nice individual flowers, I bought joes the day before but his funeral was at 9. 

I'm feeling quite devastated if I'm honest. This morning I'd just been thinking how I felt genuinely ok then bam the phone call came. My OH is writing the letter of complaint which also takes in a lot of 
possible negligence about Joe. However I have to say I'm finding what he's doing hard because it's 
bringing back the bad things from joes delivery right now which is tough as his due date is on Monday, I'm gutted about the lack of info about this baby...and I'm meant to be returning to work in the morning!! I feel like taking a sleeping tablet but then I worry if I was pregnant that would be the wrong thing to do :dohh: So sorry ladies I've just ranted to you instead!


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## allmuddledup

Rant away Suze, you are entitled to and fully justified. Do you really have to return to work tomorrow? God, I don't know how i would cope with that prospect looming over me at this stage. Good luck. We will miss seeing you on here so much (unless you are able to access BnB at work. Hah!) I hope writing to the hospital will help your OH deal with some of his own grief over your losses. Men are such different creatures from us, aren't they?

Yeah, Poppy, good idea laying off the DTD for a little while. I am sure it will be better for me to leave it alone as well for another night. My last 2 bouts of spotting and cramps have followed DTD as well. Doh!


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## poppy666

Awww Suze you rant away its understable and cant even imagine what your going through 'either of you' your losses were further on than mine, all i can do for both of you is be here to rant at :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Thank you Poppy. Having your support helps a helluva lot. I can only say I'm glad your loss wasn't as far along. Having had 3 losses in a row, I now realise the difference those few extra weeks can make and don't wish the added pain on anybody. Your loss is every bit as bad in so many ways though and we are here for you too. It helps me deal with things when I know I've got friends like you and Suze that know how it feels and what I'm going through. Thanks ladies. Xoxoxox


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## allmuddledup

I rang the hospital again today and the lady in Patient Affairs sounded surprised that the Chaplain hadn't rung me yet. She said that he was supposed to notify her by end of day yesterday if any of the funeral slots she had arranged were a problem so we can now assume that the date she gave me, 1 February at 10:00, is fine. That doesn't ring with absolute clarity for me but if she says so, I guess I'll just have to go with it unless notified otherwise. She said she was going to ring the Chaplain to make sure all it okay just in case there was a problem with him receiving the emails she has sent him. Again, not smacking of certainty. Sigh.

When I've talked with my partner about what I want to do for Gerri's funeral (photos, letter, flowers, maybe a little music if it is allowed) he just sits quietly and listens and says that sounds nice. I'm not sure if he wants to add anything himself or if he can even get his head around it right now. I don't want to force him to talk or think about it if he doesn't want to, I just don't want to make all the decisions if he wants to add anything himself. I suggested we go down to the flower store the day before and each of us picks out a flower, including my son who won't necessarily know what it's for, and then take them with us in the morning. 

I didn't even realise until today that the funeral and cremation are not done at the hospital, but at the crematorium nearby. I'm glad of that. It will make visiting the garden of remembrance nicer I think, kinda like where Suze can go for Joe I would guess.

Well, I'm off to try to get out of bed now. It's 12:30pm and I've only been out of bed to go to the toilet so far today. At least I am getting up earlier than I did yesterday. That's a start, right? And I haven't taken any co-codamol since yesterday morning either. I didn't sleep as well last night but it wasn't as bad as it could have been. I'm just gonna go with it and try to stay off the tablets unless I actually need them for my back. 

Here I go. Wish me luck facing the day! xox


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## allmuddledup

Well, brown spotting and very light cramping has resumed today and I didn't even do anything to merit the reappearance! I am scratching my head, wondering what is going on. I think I will call the doctor tomorrow and try to get an appointment. We were planning to DTD tonight as well but not sure if I should as I don't want to aggravate my insides further. What a let down. :growlmad:

How are you ladies doing today? Did you return to work today Suze?


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## poppy666

Hey sweetie well done for getting up earlier & no co-codamol proud of you :happydance:

FX the date is set now for Gerri's funeral, im sure your partner will go along with everything your happy with if he's anything like my OH... on that side of thing i dont think men have an idea what is needed or what they want especially in this kind of situation, but maybe im wrong only you know your partner.

Really sorry the spotting has returned 'its such a bummer isnt it' mine tapered off today but back to light bleeding now after my bath and its actually annoying me now, but see what doctors says tomorrow x


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## Suze

Hi there, I've been MIA action aka work!

Ellen, sounds like you are getting there and I'm sure Gerri's funeral date and time are really a helpful goal on your road to recovery. As for your OH not conrtibuting massively to plans for Gerri's funeral I would probably be inclined to let him go at his pace BUT don't alter any of your plans because of him....continue to do what you want to do for Gerri, yourself and your family on the day. Make sure the day is how you want it and that you create the memories of Gerri as you want. I'm pleased that the service will be at the crematorium rather than the hospital, it makes it more 'real' I think and also negates the need to return to the hospital when yo want some time to remember Gerri. Our garden of remembrance for babies only is called the 'snowdrop' garden and unlike the rest of the garden of remembrance is unmarked and also seperate which is nice....I like popping by when I feel I need to be closer to Joe.


Sorry about the manky spotting...both of you!!! 

Am I right in remembering that you both have appointments tommorow?!


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## allmuddledup

So glad to see your response Poppy. Thank you. I am a real mess today. Today, it does not feel like anything will ever get better. I think I am becoming thoroughly depressed. I managed the entire day without using anything to soften the pain but wanted to use something, anything, to make it hurt less. I ate lots of Oreos and ice cream instead. I listened to music as well, trying to find the right songs for Gerri's funeral. It's only 20 minutes long. I've chosen 3 songs so far. One of them is a special one for my partner. He said he'd like it to be played when I suggested it. I'm glad I was able to think of it. I feel almost paralysed with pain and helplessness, not quite knowing what to do.

Thank you for listening/reading. It really helps to know I'm not alone right now.


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## Suze

Good for you for using ice cream and Oreos to soften the pain :thumbup: :hugs:
It will get better after Gerri's funeral I can assure you, just take each day as it comes and do whatever feels right each day. Don't try and rush yourself either and pressurise yourself into getting back to normal as soon as possible. 

It is sadly reassuring to know that we are not alone, Im just so thankful for finding such supportive people on baby and bump as the majority of my friends and family haven't got the first idea about all this stuff :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Ah Suze, so good to see you here too. We must have been posting at the same time. It does help a bit to have a specific point in time to focus on but I still just feel incredibly sad most of the time anyway. That's some good advice about planning. I am trying to do that, I think. Just making some memories I feel I can live with.

Regarding spotting, it's a mixture of brownish spotting and watery discharge for me, the latter which is apparently something to be concerned about according to the info I've been able to find online. It will be back to the doctors for me tomorrow. Still getting odd little cramps as well. I think the drawn out recovery and continued worry about infection (and its implications) is getting me down as well. I need a break. Sigh. 

How are you doing? I read your post about being back at work. Don't know how you're doing it Suze on top of everything else right now. Sending big hugs to you.


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## allmuddledup

We are SO not alone, even though in my head it feels like I am sometimes. And yes, it is reassuring to have the support of so many wonderful ladies on here. It has been a tremendous help meeting everyone I have on BnB. :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Just got back from GP who took swabs this time and is also sending me for an urgent ultrasound scan (hopefully will be done by early next week). As the pesky spotting had cleared before I got there and the cramping has once again died down she didn't get the impression that there is still an infection but wrote out a prescription for the same 2 antibiotics I just had in case it does flare up suddenly. It's a relief to have the prescription on standby, particularly with the weekend coming up and not knowing what to expect from my body next. The lab results should be in by Monday afternoon hopefully so I'll know how things stand then. When I go for the ultrasound I'm going to ask if they can see any signs of ovulation (past, present or future) and also how the lining of my uterus is looking (besides checking for any retained tissue from pregnancy). I would be surprised if there is anything left as I got a total BFN on Monday. I feel kinda lucky getting to have a sneak-peak and the chance to find out if I'm showing any signs of fertility. No no no, I'm not supposed to be thinking like that yet. I just can't seem to help myself. I was in TTC mode for so long I get a bit excited to have the chance at finding these things out. 

How are things going with you ladies?


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## poppy666

We must be twins cos ive had no spotting since i got up :haha: fx you dont have an infection but your not cramping, bleeding heavy etc.. ive got docotrs at 4pm today so see what they say x

Just cleaning up but popping on and off lol good questions for up and coming scan


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## allmuddledup

Good luck at the doctors today Poppy. I hope they are able to help. It really helped talking to the GP I saw today. I had never met this doctor before and she was really lovely and reassuring and thorough. She wanted to see my photo of Gerri as well which made me feel better, like she could respect that Gerri was a real person, not just the idea of a lost baby. I dunno if that makes sense.

Big hugs to you. I hope things go well for you today. Xoxox


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## poppy666

Awww bet that felt lovely showing your little Gerri :cloud9: mine is a male doctor and ive not met him before so not sure what he'll say but will let you know xx


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## allmuddledup

I just received a phone call that's left me reeling and feeling very confused. Before falling pregnant with Gerri I was referred to a consultant gynecologist after my GP diagnosed we with PCOS because I was concerned about the effect it appeared to be having on my ability to conceive and to maintain pregnancy (I had had the early miscarriage by this point and been trying to conceive again for 7 months without success). When I saw him he reassured me that we would get things sorted out and I would have a baby. He is a great doctor in every way and I felt so reassured by him. Well, after things went downhill with Gerri and the pregnancy ended, I rang his office to enquire about carrying on with the investigations he had planned (blood tests in regards to PCOS and laparoscopy to sort out any damage that may have been caused by the ectopic pregnancy) but that had obviously been halted when I fell pregnant. His secretary very kindly booked me in for an appointment to see him in February which I was incredibly relieved to get as it had taken months to be referred to him in the first place. Well, she just called me back today to say that I have to be re-referred to him by my GP since I managed to fall pregnant since I was originally referred to him. I am gutted to say the least because I don't know what my GP will do now or if she'll even bother referring me again. I am really concerned about the overall effect PCOS can have on my health, not just my fertility, and I never felt like that was taken seriously until I saw the consultant. Now I feel like I am back to square one and am gutted. Feeling really let down by the system right now.


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## allmuddledup

And to top it all off for the day, I just missed a call from the chaplain who I've been waiting to hear from since Monday, or rather, I fumbled the phone and accidentally sent him through to voice mail. This has not been a good day for me. It's truly been one little thing after another (too many to go onto now) like a comedy of errors, which is never funny when it's actually happening to you. I just want to go home and pull the covers back over my head. Maybe that's where I went wrong today. Maybe I should just try not getting out of bed tomorrow.

I hope things have gone better for you ladies. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Awww god sweetie you have had an awful day :hugs:

Was thinking regarding having to go through your gp again and from square one, can you not see the lovely doctor you seen the other day? Im sure with everything you have gone through she can refer you as soon as possible x

Worried about you now hope your back online tonight so i know your ok :kiss:

afm started bleeding lightly again earlier so rang EPU this is no way my af and got an appointment monday to see the doctor really had enough now, my hormones are all over the place and messing with my head :cry:


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## allmuddledup

Hiya Poppy, I'm so glad to see you on here. It has been such a rubbish day. So sorry to hear your bleeding is back again. How was your doctor appointment today? We are so in the same boat. Spotting hasn't started again _yet_ for me today but I'm just waiting for it now. I keep getting little twinging cramps that I don't trust. It would be the perfect way to end such a bad day. Seriously. Sending you big hugs. I can fully sympathise with wacked-out hormones. Am sending big big hugs to you.

Funny you should mention it, I did think about asking the same GP I just saw to do a referral but I think I should be careful how I approach the issue. I don't want them to think I am shopping around the GPs just to get them to do what I want (though it's severely tempting). My main GP is lovely and hopefully would make the referral anyway but I don't know if I have to stand the test of time again (unable to conceive for x amount of time, for example) or not. It was too late by the time I got the call from the consultant's secretary to talk to the GP office today. I think I will wait till Monday and see what the scan and swab test results yield before hassling them again. I have been to the GP more times in the last 3 months than I had in the last 3 years total. I'm worried about being seen as a pest or a hypochondriac. Oh, I think too much. Maybe I should just ring them tomorrow and ask to have a chat with my GP or the one I saw today and see what they think. Couldn't hurt, right?

Well, I'm off the straight and narrow again and just tossed back a couple of co-codamol (the first in almost 2 days). I could pretend they were for the headache that's coming on but who am I kidding, I just want something to take the edge off of reality right now. A drink on top is even more tempting but probably a seriously bad idea. My OH would not approve (though he loves a drink at the end of each day himself) as he knows it's not my usual style and that I don't have much self-restraint once I get going. Oh, but how the rum is calling to me...

I hope you are faring better Poppy. Haven't heard from Suze today... Hope she's holding up alright. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Hmmm i think you should bite the bullet and ring the GP tomorrow... Thats what they paid for right? :thumbup:

I didnt go to the doctors i chickened out, i find it so hard to talk about my feelings and how low i am i thought it be much harder with a doctor i didnt know, but then i regretted it so made another appointment :dohh:

I just want my body and mind back not much to ask after what we all been through is it? :cry:

I really hope Suze ok too im sure she'll be on and im glad you logged on you had me worried :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Oh Poppy, I know it can be really hard to ask for help when you are feeling down. I am the-queen-of-not-asking-for-help sometimes (and then when I start sometimes I can't seem to stop. lol.). I'm glad you rescheduled the appointment. Is the appointment on Monday with a doctor you know? Whether you know the doctor or not, I don't think you will regret it if you can just get past the initial barrier of going and speaking up. 

It might help if you think about what you'd like to achieve as a result of speaking with the doctor (Do you just want someone to listen as a one-off? Do you want them to refer you for counseling? Do you want to try anti-depressants? Do you want advice on how to help yourself feel better without drugs or counseling? Do you just want some reassurance that you aren't batty? Do you want the physical side of things sorted out so you will feel more normal? All of the above?). Once you've got it clear in your head what you want to achieve by talking with the doctor hopefully you will be able to brave the hardest bit which is getting there and asking for help in the first place. You can always PM me as well if you want to chat off the boards. 

It's definitely not too much to ask for your health back so you can get back to enjoying life and not feeling like you are coming apart at the seams. It will probably help a helluva lot once your body is back on track. Apart from the pregnancy loss, having your body misbehaving has got to be messing with your head. I know it's messing with mine! 

They may be able to give you an injection of progesterone or something to force your cycle to reset considering the bleeding has gone on so long. There are probably other things they should do first though (like a scan or exam to make sure there isn't something besides wacky hormones causing the bleeding). Fingers crossed so tight for you! xoxoxox


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## allmuddledup

I think I am going to stumble to bed now (or to my pillow rather, I'm already in bed). Thinking of you my friends. Hopefully tomorrow will be a bit brighter for all of us. :hugs:


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## Suze

Hi I'm here, thanks for your concern :friends: - after work I collected Ava from my Mums, did tea and bath and then she wouldn't settle (teeth) so I had a bath and only got to sit down half an hour ago :dohh:

Ellen I'm pleased you had a good appointment with your GP and it sounds good that your concerns about the spotting etc are being listened to and that you're going to get a scan to see whats going on. It'll be good to see if they can give you an insight into your current situation re ovulation etc too. It was nice that she asked to see your picture of Gerri too, I have actually never shown anyone Joe. 
But then your later call wasn't so good :growlmad: That's really annoying that you have to be re-referred just because you got pregnant with Gerri in the meantime :growlmad: I would certainly get back to the GP you saw today as that seemed to be positive and perhaps they can speak with the consultants secretary about honouring the appointment you already had. It does seem particularly unfair that you have to go right back to the start just because you had a pregnancy loss. Perhaps the secretary was just sticking to their 'policy' and once your GP has had a word then it might be back on...I'll keep everything crossed for you. 
Sorry you missed the call from the chaplain too, tomorrow WILL be a better day. Big :hugs:

Poppy I'm so sorry your bleeding etc is still ongoing, it's just an horrible cruel reminder of what has happened that you could do without, both of you. I'm pleased you've got an appointment for Monday, if it gets any more concerning get yourelf seen before then though. It's a shame you don't have any confidence in your GP, do you know if there's anyone else you could talk to at your practise, like a female GP perhaps?

I don't know if you both got given SANDS info from the hospital, we did with Joe (they didn't bother giving me the leaflets this time as they knew I already had them :dohh:) and there's a local SANDS group that meets near here and I was thinking about going along sometime. Have either of you looked into whats near you?

So, onto better a better day for us all tomorrow :hug:


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## allmuddledup

Well, I spoke to my GP about the referral to the consultant. When I explained what happened she said she could make the referral again but it might get sent back (they do some serious gate-keeping in this NHS trust). When I explained about the blood test that the consultant had ordered that I never got done because of falling pregnant (it is one of those tests that needs to be done in the first few days of cycle) she said that she would rather order the test first and see what the results are before making the referral. So, I'm practically back to square one. If the test shows abnormal hormones (as seen in PCOS) then the referral will most likely go through and the problem will be dealt with. If my hormones appear normal on this test then I will most likely see no further help with the PCOS related problems I have faced in the last couple of years (long and irregular cycles in which I don't always ovulate, increased chance of miscarriage, insulin resistance, excess hair where I really shouldn't have it, and an increased likelihood of developing a myriad of other PCOS related health problems later in life). I am not too happy right now. OH has been prodding me all morning, trying to get me up and going. We are going to take a bike ride if I can ever pull myself together. He's promised to buy me an ice cream. I guess I'll pull it together now. 

How're you ladies doing today? :hugs:


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## poppy666

Arghhh sweetie you not had a good morning have you :hugs: did you go on that bike ride? hope you did and hows the spotting?

Ive been out most of this afternoon collecting a careseat for LO he's 9mths now so needed a forward facing one. No spotting ALL day for me :happydance: now just debating if to DTD tonight or not incase i spot again after grrrrrrrrrrrrr x


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## allmuddledup

Got a real surprise phone call this evening that really perked me up. I am now being booked in to see the very consultant that I was told just yesterday that I could not see without a referral. Apparently, when they went to book me in for my 6 week follow up appointment with a Gyne consultant the consultant they started to book me in with said 'hey, wait. She was being seen by Mr M before this happened, she should see him instead of me.' and so it now is happening.

In other news, I finally got to speak to the chaplain about Gerri's funeral which helped me get my head around what to expect. I also picked out the stationary I am going to write Gerri's letter on and also got a little soft toy to go in her coffin. It was really hard going into Mothercare to pick it out but I just had to get on with it. I started to cry a couple of times as I saw all the little things that I would have wanted to buy for her in life. Instead, I left with a single soft toy that I carefully inspected for things that should not be cremated (like plastic and metal). Never thought I'd have to think about things like that.

All in all, today has been an improvement over the rest of the week. My OH made me get up and out of the house (okay, it took till 1:30 to get me out but it happened!!) and we managed to walk to the shop, get ice cream, buy a chip shop lunch, go home and eat, fool around a bit :), walk to the school and back to get my son, drive to Tesco and do a big shop, get home, make a quick dinner, get son to bed, and now we are looking forward to watching a little tellie before hopefully DTD. Yay! 

We've had 5 days off while my body has goofed around with the spotting and the cramping (which btw started again after we had some mini-lovin' this afternoon) but I've concluded it doesn't seem like infection so I'm going to try to ignore it for now. I've got a scan Monday afternoon to see what's going on inside. Hopefully that will tell us something.

I'm very glad the day is almost over but not because it was a bad day, it wasn't, I'm just knackered!!!


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## allmuddledup

Poppy! We must have been posting at the same time. Really glad to see you here.

That's great news about no spotting today. Yippee!!!! Wish I could say the same, but at least I got yesterday off, right? Hah. I think you should go for it and get your lovin' on. We can't put it off forever for this pesky spotting. It doesn't sound like you have an infection which is really the biggest concern at this stage. I hope the EPU will be able to shed some light on what's causing it soon. Or even better, for it to stop!!

I'm off to bed now for my own bit of lovin'. Hehehe. Looking forward to it. :)

Goodnight and good luck. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Great news about the consultant :happydance: really glad you'll get seen now. Brought a tear to my eyes when you mention picking a soft toy for Gerri that must of been really hard especially in Mothercare but glad you didnt walk out empty handed :hugs:

LOL you have had a busy day no wonder your knackered :haha: I think our cervix must just be sensitive if we're always spotting after DTD to be honest, im hoping the doctor scan's me Monday too.. thats bth of us Monday your in afternoon im there at 10am x

Just going to run the bath then early bed for me too... enjoy rest of your evening sweetie xx


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## allmuddledup

Aww, thanks Poppy. I hope your evening goes well too. Off to brush my teeth and climb into bed with OH, if you know what I mean. teeheehee. xoxoxo


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## Suze

Ooh good news about the consultant appointment Ellen, I got really annoye for you when I read the first bit but am glad to see it seems to have come good. You seem to have had a really positive day too which is great :thumbup: Hopefully you'll feel up to dtd later too :winkwink:
Poppy :happydance: for no spotting today too, if you do dtd I wonder if you begin to spot again :wacko:

I've had an OK day at work but it's starting to hit me about my due date on Monday. Thankfully I'm not at work and we'll have a nice family day but I think I'm just feeling so empty and sad :sad1: Sorry for the downer girls :hugs:


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## poppy666

Suze its understandable how your feeling and we'll be around monday for you if you need us too, but know its going to be hard for you :hugs:

My friends daughter miscarried this evening she was 10wks bless her, its awful because me and my friend were both pregnant togethor 9mths ago, then i got pregnant again and 4wks after she did but we both miscarried, then she found out her daughter was pregnant after we miscarried now she has :cry:


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## Suze

Oh that's awful news Poppy, it hits harder when you hear of someone else miscarrying so soon after your own loss doesn't it because you know *exactly *how they are going to be feeling right now. Awful that both her and her mother have miscarried, hopefully they'll be able to support each other, although it would be hard having to be the strong one ie.the mother in that situation :sad1:


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## poppy666

Totally right Suze, after i found out it took me right back to the day i miscarried wasnt nice x


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## allmuddledup

I'm so sorry to hear you are both feeling down, though it's fully understandable under the circumstances. 

Suze, I'm glad to hear you have been able to cope at work. I am still dreading going back but thankfully I don't have to worry about it for another couple of weeks and there is still the option for me to stay off longer if I am not ready then. Right now all I can think about is putting one foot in front of the other to get through each day. Just wanting to get through Gerri's funeral in one piece then I will start focussing on other things. I hope that you are able to make a nice day with sweet memories on Monday. I know it will be incredibly hard. I can't even think that far in advance but I know it will probably be very difficult for me as well when I reach Gerri's due date, but what else can we do? As much as it hurts, our lives didn't stop when our little ones' did. All I can think is we just have to make the most of what we have right now. Gawd, that is so much easier said than done. I think you are doing a better job of it than I am Suze. I think, surely, Joe and Gerri would want us to be happy.

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend's daughter, Poppy. It must have been really hard for you when you heard about it as well. It doesn't even take that much to bring it all back. I think it's just going to take time, possibly lots of it, before it doesn't hurt so much anymore. Sadly, I don't know when that will be. TBH, I didn't fully get over my first two losses until I fell pregnant with Gerri. Now, I can't even picture that even expecting another baby will help with the pain I feel now. Time must be the ultimate healing factor but there still isn't a formula for when or how much it will take. 

I'm sending massive hugs your way. Thinking of you both. xoxox


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## Suze

Hi ladies, how are you both today? Hope the wekend has been ok? 

Ellen good luck with the scan tomorrow, what time do you go?

And Poppy are you going to the docs tomorrow?

And the spotting? I have had a tiny bit of light pink spotting today, it doesn't seem like the spotting i had directly after the erpc so I'm wondering if it's af on way...I'll be happy to get to know where I am in cycle but hope it holds off tomorrow..of all days for me!

:hugs:


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## poppy666

Hey Suze :flower:

No ive not spotted since friday so dont see point id be wasting their time now when some other lady more in need may need the appointment. As for af i dont know if last lot of light bleeding of 3 days was af or not :shrug: pfft.

Just going to do NTNP till i know where the hell i am in my cycle x


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## Suze

:grr: how annoying for you about cycles and not knowing where you are. Are you going to do any opk's to see whats going on or just 'try' and NTNP? It's weird with that positive opk last weekend too :wacko:


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## poppy666

Yep still doing OPKs, did one today very faint line.... those positives mix me up lol got one 2wks after mmc, then got one last week :dohh: i give up :haha:

Think we all stuck in same boat x


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## poppy666

Forgot to say before i go to bed... Suze thinking of you tomorrow :hugs: and Ellen good look at your appointment :kiss:


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## allmuddledup

Yay! Poppy and Suze you're back! So happy to see you back. It was a quiet weekend here.

Update on me, I was in a terrible state yesterday. OH was so worried he wants my psych consultant's telephone number (I have bipolar disorder though have been relatively stable for about 7 years) in case he needs to ring him about me. I'm feeling somewhat more together this morning but things can turn so quickly for me on the inside. I was even scaring myself. :(

Suze, I want you to know I am thinking of you today and sending my best thoughts your way. You will make it through today. I hope you will be able to look back on it and see sweet memories of a special day spent with Ava and Mark in honour of Joe. I hope it goes as well as it possibly can. Sending the biggest hugs your way.

Poppy, that's great news about the spotting stopping for a few days. Too bad about no scan today though. Hopefully that was the last of the bleeding and the next you see will be AF (or none at all because you get a BFP!!). That last would be the best one, eh?

I've not had anymore spotting since Friday myself but I don't trust that it's finished and I don't want to give up my scan in case it does come back. GP would not be impressed if I showed up again next week with more spotting and hadn't been for my scan. Hopefully my lab results will be back this afternoon as well. Have to wait til 3pm for those, same time as scan!

Despite my weekend internal meltdown, me and OH are going to try to do some cleaning round the house today. It's in a desperate state and we are hopefully going to be able to make a chip in it today, starting with the kitchen. Wish me luck girls!

Thinking of you both. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Allmuddledup so sorry your having a rough time, im not too clued up on bipolar so going to read up on it today once its quiet here, hope everything goes ok this afternoon at your scan :hugs:

Suze (( huge hugs)) thinking of you and your family :hug:


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## allmuddledup

Thank you Poppy & Suze. I hope what you find out about bipolar doesn't bore you. To sum it up, bipolar is a mental health disorder that is mainly characterized by large mood swings between depression and mania. Fortunately, I have been more or less stable for the last 7 years with the help of medication, which I have actually been off of since November 2009 whilst TTC. In the last year I have experienced several episodes of mild depression but only the barest hint of brief mania a few times, so that's why I say I have been more or less stable. It's only truly worrying when the swings get out of control, i.e. blindingly/suicidally depressed or truly manic (which often involves exceedingly elevated moods with very poor decision making and risk taking that I would not normally indulge in when in a healthy mental state). I hope that helps a bit.

Well, I've just gotten back from the scan. The good news is that the lining of my uterus looks fine with no reason that they can see for the prolonged spotting/bleeding (and as the last spotting I had so far was Friday afternoon, hopefully that is the end of it). I also called the GP and got swab results which were all clear as well. The bad news is that the sonographer didn't see any signs of ovulation when I had the scan which I was actually surprised about. If my body were following a similar pattern to the last 2 times, I should be ovulating by some time this week (anytime from yesterday to the end of the week which would have been apparent on the scan if it were the case). Also, my ovaries are still poly-cystic, which was disappointing as I was vaguely hopeful they might have settled down a bit during pregnancy, but apparently they have not. So, I have mixed feelings about the results... Good that there is no infection or signs of a problem, Bad that my body is not following an identifiable pattern to give me hope of it returning to normality or fertility soon. Big sigh...

Aside from the scan appointment, I've made several phone calls today and done some housework. Me and my OH are attempting to tackle the chaos that is our home, starting with the kitchen. We managed to do a corner of it, which might not sound like much but still took us over 2 hours to sort it out. Now I've got some free cupboard space which I can use when I get to the next cupboard and need to reorganize some things. It feels good to have been productive, even if you can't really tell that much has changed.

As for the phone calls, I learned today from the hospital that Gerri was definitely a girl (and that I no longer have to base her gender on my best guess from seeing her undeveloped little parts after I delivered her). I know it doesn't make any difference to the pregnancy outcome or bring her back, but it makes things clearer in my mind when I think of her and it helps to know that I can talk about her in definite terms and won't ever have to say "it" again when describing my precious baby. I had a daughter. My son had a sister. We lost a little girl. It really helps to be able to think of her clearly and definitely as a girl and for there to be no doubts that I might have mistakenly been calling a son a girl, or vice versa. I felt she was a girl and it helps to know that I was right and perhaps in touch with her on some unseen level as well.

Well, my son is home from school and OH off to work so I am on duty. I am going to do my best to keep it together for my little one and get him to bed happy and content without any meltdowns or shouting or hiding in my bedroom. Here I go. Wish me luck!

Suze, I hope your day has gone as well as it possibly could. Poppy, I hope you have had a good day with no spotting and good moods. Big hugs to you both.


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## allmuddledup

Right, I've made it through getting my little guy to bed, now I am just trying to stay awake til OH gets home from work. My head is buzzing with all of the information I've taken in today and trying to sort through it so I can find a peaceful place inside my head again.

On one hand I am really bothered by the news that ovulation is no where in sight for me. On the other I am just trying to not think about it because I have got so much more to think about right now with preparing for Gerri's funeral and just getting to a point where I can face each day without feeling like I am coming apart at the seams. I can feel my obsessive side starting to kick in as well in regards to what my cycle is doing... I don't do well with Limbo. 

I'm going to come back to the nicer thought of what I learned today from the hospital in regards to Gerri. To find out her gender for certain was truly a gift. I'm going to hold onto that and just think about my little girl and how much I love her and how much I want to honour her on the day of her funeral. I am trying to see it in a positive way as something I can do for her and not as the heart wrenching event it actually is. I can do this.


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## Suze

Hi there,

Sorry I've been quiet....
Lovely to have that confirmation about Gerri's sex, you knew but it's still nice to know for definite. I had the same with Joe, when I delivered him he clearly looked like a boy but then I had read lots of stuff about it not being that clear at that gestation and people thinking one thing and finding the opposite out. At the time we wanted to name him (rather than waiting for confirmation) so we chose Joe as it could have been female if need be. I was relieved too when we got the confirmation that he was a boy too. 

Sorry to hear that you'd not ovulated but you know your body has been through such a lot it could just be an annovulatory (I think thats what they call it when you don't ovulate?!) cycle due to the stress of whats been going on. I think it could just be a one off :thumbup:
And you just think about and remember your little girl fondly :hugs:

As for bi-polar I'm very aware of it, I have a couple of close friends who are diagnosed but also manageing it really well. I also work with a lot of people with it too. You're doing really well to be managing things. I take it yo are still under a consultant? So if things start tipping either way it sounds like you have a lot of insight and would be able to get help.

Right, I'm off to bed. I'd taken a days holiday tomorrow with Joe's due date and was going to cancel and go in but have decided against that and am going to have a me day, Ava is at nursery!

Take care :flow:


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## poppy666

Hiya sorry guess ive been quiet too, was really down today more so because of this cycle and not knowing if ive ov'd or not ( dont think i have) im more worried that the MMC has totally messed my body up :cry: arghhh need to stop stressing its taking over my life at the moment x

Ellen im so glad you found out that Gerri is a little girl even tho you knew it its nice to be confirmed before her funeral :hugs: I also thought my baby was a girl not sure why or maybe i thought because i miscarried, it had to be a girl cos i carried boys and had no problems, dont think i could handle it if i was to find out it was a girl ( dont get me wrong if it was a boy id be devasted, but i want a girl so bad that would hurt like hell knowing ) now i sound awful :cry:

Grrr i need to snap out of this downer, sorry i should of not posted really.. going to go bed in a minute. Suze thinking of you too sweetie :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

So lovely to hear from you Suze. Been thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way. As hard as it must have been to face Joe's due date, I imagine it must be a relief to get through and past it as well. You've lived through so much pain. Maybe, hopefully, it can only get better from here, right? You deserve a break. I'm really glad to hear you are taking a day off for yourself tomorrow.

I'm glad you understand about the whole gender issue. It was such a relief to find out for certain about Gerri. I didn't really expect to ever know for sure because I was told they wouldn't be looking at that in the tests but apparently they did in the end. It feels like a gift to have learned this extra little thing about my baby. 

It's encouraging to know that you know other people with bipolar that are managing their illness as well. There have been a few times in the last year I wasn't sure if I could manage without mess but I've pulled through so far. This past weekend was the worst I've been, but considering what I've been through in the last year I guess I could be doing worse. Yes, I'm under the care of a consultant (I was doing so well last year he nearly discharged me from his care but I said Noooo way because I know how quickly things can turn in mental illness and how slow the NHS are to respond). I'm normally pretty aware of my state of mind but I gave my consultant's number to my OH yesterday so he can call for support if I appear to be losing touch at any point.

It was really good to see you back here Suze. I hope you get a good sleep tonight and have a lovely day to yourself tomorrow. Big :hugs: to you. Xoxox


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## allmuddledup

Oh Poppy, don't ever think you shouldn't have said (or posted) your thoughts. That's what BnB is all about! It is really good to hear from you as well and I feel honoured that you feel you can air your thoughts on my thread. I've been missing you and was starting to worry about you so I'm very glad you wrote.

Sounds like you are really having a rough time right now hun. I know what you mean as well about wanting a girl. I think that is one of the hardest things about early pregnancy loss, not being able to know anything solid about the baby you've lost or why it happened. Of course, later losses brings with them a greater knowledge of what you've lost but with that an even greater sense of loss so I guess knowing things like baby's gender or the cause of the loss are small compensation. Either way, it's brutal and hurts like hell and I wish no one ever had to go through this.

Thinking of you Poppy. I hope things start looking up for you soon. Xoxox


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## allmuddledup

Well, I'm off to bed now. I've managed to work myself into a sleepy stupor watching hours of CSI on tellie. I am trying to avoid using co-codamol to sleep like I have done so nearly every night for the last few weeks. If I want to get better I have to start by losing my crutches. Just hope I can sleep now. Here goes!


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## Suze

Hope you got a good nights sleep Ellen, you're doing so well with whats happened in the last year not to have had a relapse it's quite amazing!!

Poppy don't apologise for posting, I think its good we're all supporting each other here. 
Going back to the gender thing, thats what I had been most wanting to know and because my baby was being sent for cytogenetics I would have...and so I feel totally gutted that the hospital didn't do it and now I'll never know. I have to say in my pregnancy I was thinking girl but then when I lost I was thinking boy, kind of same reason as you because I have a girl. That's the thing that hurts the most is being told I would discover the sex of the baby through the testing and it not happening :sad1: 
Did either of you look at the chinese gender chart btw? I'm not sure what I think about it although it was righ for me for Ava and Joe and if it was right for a third time I would have lost a boy. 

https://www.babygenderprediction.com/chinese-gender-chart.html


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## poppy666

allmuddledup said:


> Well, I'm off to bed now. I've managed to work myself into a sleepy stupor watching hours of CSI on tellie. I am trying to avoid using co-codamol to sleep like I have done so nearly every night for the last few weeks. If I want to get better I have to start by losing my crutches. Just hope I can sleep now. Here goes!

Did you manage without the co-codamol last night sweetie? hope so :hugs:

Suze it says 'A boy' for me :wacko: How you feeling? x


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## allmuddledup

Hey ladies. So good to see you here again today. :hugs:

Yes, Poppy, I did manage to sleep without co-codamol last night and managed to refrain from taking it again as soon as I woke up this morning (which I have also done a fair amount of in the morning for the last 2 weeks). I am feeling better for not having done it. Yay!

Suze, I did the gender prediction from the link you posted and it said Girl for Gerri (which matches what we know) and also said Boy when I look at the dates/age when I had my son (which is accurate as well). However, I have done other gender predictors and they have said the opposite for Gerri and for Xander, so I don't think we can truly rely on them. I am so sorry that the hospital messed up and couldn't tell you any more about your last baby. I think I would be going out of my head if that had happened to me, particularly if I had been assured it would be done. How are you coping with the issue now? I just hope you will be able to find peace and hang onto it (peace tends to be fleeting for me, so that's why I say that).

I had a moment on the weekend when I feared the hospital might have missed something vital in regards to Gerri and I nearly fell apart. I have since spoken to them and found reassurance, thankfully. Unfortunately, I can't write openly about the issue on this thread as it is against forum rules, but I am thinking of adding something about it on my Ethical Prenatal Loss thread. I'll just say, the hospital failed to tell me about the 1-2% chance of the CVS test showing a false positive (which I now know is related to confined placental mosaicism which I've since been assured was not the case with Gerri) and I totally flipped out. The good side of me ringing the hospital in a panic was that I found out for certain that Gerri was a girl and that was a "gift" I wasn't expecting and I may not have found out otherwise.

I have an agenda today. I am going to prepare the photographs that are to go in Gerri's casket today and send them off to Snappy Snaps for printing. I've also got the playlist ready to burn to CD for the music. I have also written a draft of the letter to her which I will rewrite by hand tomorrow or Friday morning. Finally, I need to ring the flower shop and inquire about us picking out the flowers we want to take on Tuesday morning. I can't believe I have managed to be this organised at this time. I don't even manage to get out of bed before noon (since everything happened) unless I have to. I can understand now why they leave it a month before having the baby's funeral. I don't think I would have been ready for it before now, to be honest. How long did you have to wait for the funeral Suze after you lost Joe?

Aside from sleeping in until 11:30, I think I am doing okay today. It's good to be able to say that. 

I hope that both of you are feeling well and having a better day today as well. We all deserve to heal and be happy. It just seems to take so blooming long.


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## Suze

Sounds like you're having a productive and positive day :thumbup:
We lost Joe on the 14th August and his funeral was on the 7th of September but I DID push for it to be as soon as possible.
Oh my god I can only imagine your panic, I'll have a further read on your other thread...but oh my goodness I can see how that would send you into blind panic wondering if there had been a mistake. Thankfully you got the reassurance, were you expecting sex confirmation at a later date, or not at all?
I'm still seething that we wer told by 3 doctors and my consultant that we'd find out the sex as well as what he/she dies from. We're just in the process of finalising the complaint letter :grr:

You seem lovely and organised with regards to the funeral, but then I think you always would have done because it's what you're doing for your little girl :cloud9: What type of flowers did you decide upon?

Poppy I think the responses for the gender thingy are mixed, well it's 50/50 isn't it :haha:


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## allmuddledup

Yes, Suze, blind panic is a very good way to put it. I was greatly reassured after speaking to the hospital and hearing the results of the full karyotype report which ruled out any room for error. Still, I think it is rather irresponsible for them to have omitted the information about false positives when they gave us the results of Gerri's CVS. I had searched for the information myself before taking any steps but could find nothing at the time to make me think there was any hope of a false positive (I ran across the information by chance while reading about something related but not exactly the same). Had I known at the time though I think I would have held out for an amnio as well. That is probably why they don't mention the 1-2% chance if a false positive in the first place. It could get complicated and expensive for them if women refused to believe the first set of test results and demanded a second test. As for finding out her gender, I was pretty much told flat out that they wouldn't be looking at that factor and that they might not even do a full karyotype. I really can't get my head around their reasons for that. Bureaucracy in the NHS makes me want to scream!

I rang the flower shop today and they suggested we come in Friday to choose the type of flowers we want and they will order them in fresh for us to collect before the funeral. I am looking forward to it. I have been coping much better these last couple of days so hopefully I will be able to keep myself together at the flower shop. I think going to Mothercare to choose the cuddly toy was much harder. I've been listening to the music we plan to play at her funeral as well. Partly because it helps me think of her and partly to prepare me for the day.

I think that's all from me tonight (unless I find I can't sleep in the middle of the night again). Gonna try to have an early night with OH. I hope you've had a lovely day to yourself Suze and I hope you've had a much better today Poppy. Hoping tomorrow is as positive and productive as today was!

Big :hugs: to you!!


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## allmuddledup

I managed to fall asleep around 1am in the end, once again without the aid of drugs (though I wanted to use them). I managed to finish the photos off for printing and they are now waiting for me to collect them at Snappy Snaps. There are 10 different photos I decided to use in the end that included myself and OH, my son and close family members that were really looking forward to meeting her. I've had doubles printed, one set to go in Gerri's casket, the other to go in her album when I finish it. I have a couple more photos of her I want to clean up and put in her album as well. I think it will be really nice when it's done. Not that many people will ever see it, but it will be nice for me to be able to look at when I need to and also for my partner and son when the time is right. I think Xander should know about his sister but as he didn't know about the pregnancy in the first place I think I will wait til he's a bit older to tell him, when I am more able to deal with the questions and when he's old enough to understand better. I think it's lovely that Joe is becoming a part of Ava's vocabulary. I think I may tell Xander about Gerri when we've got her tree planted. I'm not sure if I'll be ready that soon but it may be a few months yet before we get it anyway. I'd like winter to be over before we attempt to plant a little tree and expect it to survive.

I forgot to respond to a couple of things yesterday. You may be right Suze about me having an annovulatory cycle. They are no stranger to me with the PCOS. I've also read that they are quite common the first cycle after pregnancy loss as well. Still, it could just be that my body wasn't brewing an egg when I had the scan but that it might do soon (also, having polycystic ovaries, an early folicle in the making could have been easily overlooked). I'll find out when AF arrives!

I was wondering Suze, in the end, did you feel the timing was right with Joe's funeral? A couple of weeks ago I asked the hospital to arrange Gerri's funeral as soon as possible, but now that a bit more time has passed (and my mental and emotional state has shifted a few more times) I am really glad it's not any sooner than it is. I can totally understand why they don't rush it though. I think I needed this time to pull myself together and prepare myself for it. When did you return to work after you lost Joe? (and was it because you had to or did it just feel like the right time?) I am amazed at your ability to return to work so soon after the most recent loss. I hope today has gone well for you and that you are still coping well. Kudos to you Suze! :hugs:

Well, I am going for a little nap now until I have to get up to face the afternoon and evening. I'm also going to have a snuggle with Gerri's cuddly toy before I have to take it to the hospital tomorrow. I discovered it had a little rattle in its belly (don't think it would be allowed for cremation) so I did surgery on it and replace the rattle with a little love note to Gerri. I'm glad I did. It's my little secret message for my little daughter.


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## poppy666

*I discovered it had a little rattle in its belly (don't think it would be allowed for cremation) so I did surgery on it and replace the rattle with a little love note to Gerri. I'm glad I did. It's my little secret message for my little daughter.*


That made me cry sweetie :cry: hope your ok :hugs:

When i MC i found this poem, have you both seen it? it brought me a little comfort over christmas x


WHAT MAKES A MOTHER? 

I thought of you and closed my eyes
And prayed to God today 
I asked, "What makes a Mother?" 
And I know I heard him say 
A Mother has a baby
This we know is true 
But, God, can you be a mother 
When your baby's not with you? 

Yes, you can he replied 
With confidence in his voice 
I give many women babies 
When they leave it is not their choice 
Some I send for a lifetime 
And others for the day 
And some I send to feel your womb 
But there's no need to stay. 

I just don't understand this God 
I want my baby here 

He took a breath and cleared his throat 
And then I saw a tear 
I wish I could show you 
What your child is doing Here

If you could see your child smile
With other children and say 
"We go to earth to learn our lessons of love and life and fear, 
but My mommy loved me so much 
I got to come straight here!" 
I feel so lucky to have a Mom who had so much love for me 
I learned my lessons very quickly 
My Mommy set me free. 
I miss my Mommy oh so much 
But I visit her each day 
When she goes to sleep On her pillow is where I lay 
I stroke her hair and kiss her cheek 
And whisper in her ear "Mommy, Please don't be sad today 
I'm your baby and I am here" 

So you see my dear sweet one 
Your children are okay 
Your babies are here in 
My home And this is where they'll stay 
They'll wait for you with Me 
Until your lessons there are through 
And on the day that you come home 
they'll be at the gates waiting for you

So now you see What makes a Mother 
It's the feeling in your heart 
It's the love you had so much of Right from the very start <3


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## allmuddledup

That is a lovely poem. I read it for the first time quite recently as well. Thank you for sharing it Poppy. I really hope you are feeling better today (I'm sorry I made you cry!!!). I know it can help us heal when we cry but I always feel sorry for having triggered it in others (like when my partner is doing just fine until I start to cry and then it sets him off too). I was wondering if you've got your little footprints pendant yet. I saw you mention it on another thread ages ago. It's a lovely idea.

I'm really happy to see you on here today Poppy. I hope you are starting to feel better (and if not that you are rethinking seeing the doctor about it). I spoke to someone in the clinic where I see my consultant yesterday and she is going to try to arrange some sessions with one of the psychologists there to help me with managing my bipolar particularly during this time. I hope it comes through because the plan is that we will involve my partner as well in the coping plan in case I hit a stage again where I need intervention. Living with a mood disorder is no fun but there are things that can be done to make it manageable and keep things from getting too bad. I'm luckier than some of my older relatives who didn't have this kind of help available to them when they needed it. I do hope you will seek help with your depression before it takes over your life. It's worth asking for help and you won't be sorry you did once you are feeling better.

Sending you lovely happy thoughts my sweet friend. Xoxox


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## poppy666

Aww im just emotional today, nothing in perticular so dont worry, think id cry at an advert right now lol. Its great to hear your getting offered support and fx an appointment is made soon for you with the psychologist, its going to be hard enough for you and your partner with Gerri's funeral coming up :hugs:

Sorry i forgot to mention i went to the doctors yesterday and he's referring me to see someone to talk too, he mentioned medication but id like to try talking first see if that helps.

Im feeling ok today apart from emotionally & a little nauseated, but my LO's nappy exploded today and the mess was all up his back 'everywhere' lol had to put him straight in the bath ewwww hence why my stomach a bit dodgy.

Funny you should mention the pendant because my OH ask me if i was still getting it other day, id totally forgotten about it, so OH going to order it online Saturday for me.


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## allmuddledup

Oh Poppy, I'm sorry to hear you are feeling so emotional today but I reckon it's all par for the course when you consider what you've been through. I'm so glad to hear you spoke to your doctor and that he's doing something to help. That's really good news. You may find that speaking with someone will help a lot. I have found it usually helps me. I am seeing a counsellor for 6 sessions through my employer, just saw her today actually. I am finding it helpful. It is very focused work as well since the sessions are limited so hopefully I will come out of it with some "tools" I can use in future. I really hope you find speaking with someone helps, but don't forget, if you are still struggling, there is more help for you out there.

I think it's lovely that your OH is getting you the pendant. Our fellas can be really thoughtful sometimes, eh? I love it when they get it right. Lol. My OH has been amazingly supportive through everything that's happened. I feel so blessed to have him. Long may that continue. :)

I'm off to tackle tea now and enjoy a little down time while my son is at Stagecoach. Hopefully catch you back here tonight. Xoxox


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## poppy666

Yes your right they can be thoughtful sometimes, mine just forgets at the wrong times lol... yep i better think of tea too, cya later x


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## allmuddledup

Oh, forgot to mention Ewwwww! about the exploded nappy. Hope you don't end up with a tummy bug or something. I remember the days of nasty nappies, oh how I hope to see those days again sometime. Lol. It's been too long since I had a baby get sick all over me. Haha. Xox


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## poppy666

It was for me lol my other son is 17 so huge age gap :haha:


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## allmuddledup

That's a huge gap! Did I read rightly somewhere that you have 3 grown sons? Do you mind if I ask what made you decide to have more children after all that time? That's like living a double lifetime in motherhood. Wow. What do your big boys think of their littlest brother? Xox


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## poppy666

My 3 older boys are to my ex husband, they're 20,19 and 18.. The boys love little korben bless them, been with my OH for 17yrs and tried for 6yrs to concieve with no luck so went to have tests which came back as 'unexplained infertility' and commenced to IVF on the NHS..

We went down to St Mary's to start treatment ISCI but the day of treatment they found a small cyst on my ovary so decided to put me on the pill for 6wks to shrink the cyst before we could go ahead with the treatment. A few weeks after finishing the pill and waiting for AF to go back to St Mary's i suffered a Pulmonary Embolism and needed to go on Warfarin for 6mths, so basically treatment was cancelled until i was off the Warfarin.

5 days off the Warfarin i went out for the night with my OH and friends to enjoy a few drinks because i wasnt allowed to drink on the blood thinners etc.. That weekend we concieved Korben 'naturally' and may i say we was totally drunk :haha:

Dont know what helped concieve him 'maybe my blood was still thinner than usually only being off the Warfarin 5 days?' but we was blessed :happydance:. We decided to try one more time because of the age gap of my other 3 boys and wanting so much for korben not to grow up an only child in a way, so was very lucky to concieve again, but sadly lost at 9wks. Sounds sad now but we'd nearly decided on names for our lost angel because we couldnt make our mind up with Korben's. For a boy either Devon or Kasper. Girl either Destiny or Savannah :hugs:

I think someone was watching over me the night i suffered the Pulmonary Embolism because it was also the same date 18th Jan that my mum passed away at the age of 52 from the same condition :cry: So if i get pregnant again i have to self injected Tinzaparin which is a blood thinner whilst pregnant. I did it all the way through whilst carrying Korben and 6wks after he was born, small price to pay to keep me and baby safe.


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## allmuddledup

Wow Poppy, you've really been through it!! What a blessing to have conceived Korben when you did as well. It's crazy how unpredictable this whole fertility thing can be and amazing that you conceived so soon when you started trying again after Korben. I'm so sorry your littlest one didn't make it. I don't really know much about the condition you have but isn't medical science amazing? I'm so glad there is something they could do for you (and seems more than a coincidence that you conceived so soon after the blood thinners!) I've heard of ladies using baby aspirin when trying to conceive. Is that something that might help you with the blood issues you have?

Are any of your big boys still at home or have they all flown the nest now? I can't even picture Xander getting that old but I know, logically, that he will someday. I marvel at how much he's changed and grown in the last year and can almost start to imagine him being a teenager, at least in personality. Hah.

Well, I took some of the biggest steps today towards being ready for Gerri's funeral. I finished the photographs for her last night (or rather the wee hours of today) and tonight after getting X to bed I wrote her letter and put all the photographs together with it. I will be taking everything down to the hospital tomorrow to give to the bereavement office so they can pass it all to the undertakers when they come for Gerri.

It was nice cuddling with her cuddly toy during my nap today. I sort of wish I had been doing it since I bought it but I might have gotten too attached to it, and it's Gerri's. I think I'll sleep with it tonight though. Gives a bit more meaning to it and is no longer just something I picked off a shelf in a shop. As sappy as I may sound, I am slowly finding a sense of peace through doing these little things. I've barely even cried these last three days (okay, I cried when I wrote her letter but I feel better for it now).

Thank you for sharing more of your story with me Poppy. You've been through so much. I really hope that you will be able to conceive again soon, when your body is ready of course. Sounds like that drunken night with your OH when you conceived Korben was a magic ticket! Lol. Did you find you were fairly relaxed when you managed to conceive last time? For me, the last two times I conceived it was when I just gave up and assumed it wouldn't happen... Then it did!!! Typical, eh? I'm secretly (secret from myself, hah) hoping that our NTNP will have positive results but I'm also truly not ready to TTC yet after everything I've just been through with Gerri. Out of respect to her (and the basic need to heal) I won't be actively TTC for a while, but I don't think she would begrudge a brother or sister coming along in the meantime if they think it's right. I hope that doesn't sound odd. 

Well, I'm off for some quality time with OH. I'll prolly pop on later before i go to bed though. Thank you again for sharing. Xoxox


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## poppy666

I had the thrombophilia screening after i finished the Warfarin, but all tests came back normal, so dont know why i got the blood clot, some say it could of been the pill that the fertility clinic put me on :shrug: 

I have thought of trying baby asprin because when i concieved korben obviously like i said i was pretty intoxicated lol and alcohol does thin your blood?? not sure but he's our little miracle.

Last time i concieved with my angel i was only actively trying that month.. 2 months prior i was just doing the NTNP, but decided to try Soy isoflavones, Preseed and charting for once and it worked i got my BFP at 9dpo... 

Just waiting for my body to sort itself out now and af arrive, may try Soy again to be honest and see what happens.

aww was just thinking of Gerri's soft toy :hugs: shame you didnt buy two of then you could keep one for yourself after her funeral. Im glad your finding a bit of peace whilst arranging Gerri's funeral i guess its a step nearer to healing, i like to think/believe our angels have a soul and have just gone back to the waiting room until its thier time to meet us :hugs:

Xander is such a lovely name and your right they grow so fast and before you know it its the dreaded teenage yrs :haha: My eldest boy is in the Army Royal Engineers, Middle son has just been accepted into University he wants to be a Chef and youngest is at college doing engineering and also wanting to join the army. Korben i think is going to be an electrician cos he's got a thing for wires lol.


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## allmuddledup

It was lovely reading about your boys Poppy. They sound like a wonderful set you can be really proud of. It will be interesting to see what Korben does when he grows up. Xander reckons he'll be a rock star (lol) but we'll see what happens. He's a performer at heart but only time will tell if he's got the focus to get there. Bless him. He's a lovely crazy boy.

Hopefully the problems you had after the pill won't come back. That must have been terrifying to go through. And fingers crossed tight you get lucky again so quickly like last time. As for me, I think my body is making an attempt at ovulation. I'm getting the swollen achy feeling in my abdomen that always comes on when I am ovulating (or trying to - sometimes my body tries and fails). I'll know in a couple of weeks anyway if I've got the signs right. 

Well, I made it through the day today quite well though not without some tears. Took the things down to the hospital to go in Gerri's casket, did a test run to the crematorium so I know exactly where I am going, and ordered the flowers. That was probably the easiest part for me and the hardest part for my OH as he has sort of avoided facing any of the other preparations. We took my son to choose a flower as well. As he doesn't yet know about Gerri I said to him "think of what type of flower you would like to give to your little sister if you had one" (he's been telling us to make a baby for him for ages). When we got to the flower shop he said " Mummy, I think we should wait til the baby comes before we choose flowers to see if it's a girl or a boy." Kids are so smart, eh? I didn't know if I was gonna laugh of cry. I just said, let's just think of if you had a sister, what flower would you give her?" He was okay with that and chose some lovely little lilac daisies and went on to tell my OH that he wants to give me red carnations (or rather, that's what he pointed to) for valentines. He's so lovely.

Just cooked tea so off to have that now. I am feeling rather flat tonight. Drained, I suppose. I hope today is going well for you. Hope we hear from Suze soon, I'll haunt her thread later tonight. :hugs:


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## Suze

Hi lovelies, sorry I've not been around, a lot been happening.

Firstly thanks for sharing all about your boys Poppy. it was lovely to hear. They sound like good boys and I laughed at you thinking Korben was going to be an electrician :haha: 
I think you're right about Ellen buying another of the same toy that was bought for Gerri...it might be lovely for you to keep. 

Ellen you asked me about the timing for Joe's funeral, I think it was fine to be honest although I'll be totally honest with you in saying I found it very difficult when it was all over, as people stop asking then and there's an expectation that you just get on with things. You also asked about work. I went back about 8 weeks after Joe. I have to say that I am part time which is why I was able this time to go back sooner, I also have the most amazing boss who has been understanding beyone belief and so I am under no pressure to go back and if I don't want to go in then I just don't go in! The other thing which I think helped is that I actually work with my OH, so I suppose I had additional support at work.

So, today I have been at the crematorium for a combined service for the baby we have just lost. It was really nice, there were 4 other couples there and all the babies were brought in in a coffin that was bigger than Joe's had been. I found it very difficult though sitting listening to similar words and looking again at a white box with my baby that didn't make it in. 
In other very major news, my OH has left me :shock: There's loads on my journal but basically it started as something very little and he has acted unreasonably and had decided to leave me as he (yes HE) can't cope...he left from the service this afternoon, we went seperately which was weird and he tried to comfort me but to be honest I just didn't want it from me, he has hurt me at a time I'm hurting enough. 

Sorry to bring a downer on things, love to you all as usual :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Oh Suze, I am speechless. I don't know what to say except that I am so sorry to hear what's happening with you and OH. That is devastating news. I really hope you will be able to work through things. So sorry too that you found yourself again facing another funeral for a baby you wanted so badly. You have been through too much. I wish there was something I could do to take away some of the hurt! Sending you the biggest hugs ever Suze. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Thank you for telling me more about your experience when you lost Joe. I hadn't really thought about people's attitudes changing after the funeral but I guess it makes sense as I am sorta expecting to find closure within myself with the funeral and if I don't, I'm not really sure what to do next. I think having this extra time to prepare leading up to it has helped me start to prepare for closure, like I'm doing a last minute check round my internal house, turning out lights, closing doors... So when I finally say good bye, I can feel like I covered everything and didn't leave anything left undone. Of course it's still going to hurt and I'm still going to wish she was here and that things hadn't gone as they did, but I am doing the best I can to do everything I can to heal and let her go in my head (but never my heart).

Again, Suze, I am so sorry to hear what's happening with you. My thoughts are with you, hoping you and Mark will be able to heal, individually and together. XOXOXOX


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## allmuddledup

I have just found myself thinking in the last couple days, what will I wear to Gerri's funeral? I am very much a jeans and t-shirt kinda gal and have very little clothing in the way of respectable looking (except for my work clothes which I don't want to wear to her funeral). Also, I kinda stopped looking after things around the house a while back and all my clothes are in a big laundry basket now instead of the wardrobe. So... I'm thinking, I need to trawl through the basket, navigating around all the maternity clothes I really should hide away somewhere because I cry when I see them, and hope I pull something out that will look halfway respectable for my baby's funeral. Or maybe I should go shopping. I just feel so crap right now though, the last thing I want to do is dress up my fat body. Did I mention all the comfort eating I'm doing? I've put on about half a stone since we said goodbye to Gerri. Not good... Just my little thought for the night. I'm going to go watch a little more tellie now. It distracts me from my thoughts. xox


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## Suze

Hi love,

It's funny but it is a consideration what to wear. For Joe's I decided I'd wear the clothes that I likes best, that best said 'me' if you know what I mean....so I wore smartish (I also don't massively do smart) jeans, a top and a bright red coat!! The other option is, if you don't think it will be counter productive is to go and treat yourself? I also found I was looking carefully at what I would wear when I went in to deliver Joe....sounds really silly but I had this pair of pearl stud earrings in when I delivered Ava (by accident, she came quicly btw!) and I felt I had to have the same earrings in when I went in to have Joe. And then this time I did the same thing too, even though I knew I'd have to take them out as I was having a GA.
Don't worry too much about the eating, you just need to do whatever makes you feel okish at the moment.

Thanks for the message on my journal too, it's a really tough time I'm in a bit of a haze if I'm honest! :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Thank you Suze. Hearing that you wore jeans and a bright colour makes me feel less uptight about figuring it out for myself. Unfortunately, I don't have any smart jeans, but I have some comfy but nice looking black trousers that might be good. I like that you wore a bright red coat. I might look at getting something new actually. Nothing I have seems good enough to wear to my baby's funeral. I think that's more of a mental thing than reality but I still can't help feeling that way. My wardrobe is tatty and well worn (or no longer fits). The only newish clothes I have that appear nice are maternity clothes, which just seems like a cruel joke right now. I know in many ways it's not that important, but I just want to be able to convey my love and respect for Gerri in what I wear to her funeral. I am feeling sad, but not as sad as I have been. I think it's starting to get easier now. Let's see if I can say that again after Tuesday.

I think it's lovely about the earrings Suze. That is so special. Also, I was very touched by your story about the snowdrops in your journal. I think it is a gift to find symbolism in things and to celebrate it. Thank you for sharing your story. xoxox


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## allmuddledup

Urgh. I am feeling some serious ovulation pain today. I thought the last two days were it but my body is reaching new heights in ov pain it would seem. I was suspicious yesterday that my body was holding back as my CP was medium high and cervix was soft but not at it's softest. Today, I could barely reach my cervix it was so high and it is very soft and open this morning. The clencher for me is that it hurts upon sitting down (always a sign of ovulation for me since the miscarriage last March). Any theories as to why ovulation is getting more painful for me?


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## Suze

Oh I don't know about the ov pain, it's something I've never actually had.

I'm not sure how much I'll be on later but I just wanted to send you mega mega :hugs: and floaty :kiss: for Gerri for tomorrw, you really really will be in my thoughts :hug:


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## poppy666

Suze massive hugs sweetie :hug: hope your ok :hugs:

Ellen thinking of you too my lovely :hugs::hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Hello my friends. I hope you are both having a better time of things. I am doing alright though have had a rather unusual last 24 hours...

My son came home from a weekend at his dad's house with a cough and a sniff that rapidly turned into a very wheezy acute respiratory infection overnight. The school called me yesterday morning to say he was really unwell (he'd been a bit coughy and wheezy in the morning but he normally perks right up when he gets to school) and to come collect him. He promptly fell asleep on the sofa when I got him home (something he rarely ever does) and had developed a fever while struggling to breathe properly. Luckily the doctor was willing to see him quite soon and by 3 o'clock we had him some antibiotics and an inhaler to help ease his breathing. We discovered at 1am that he was having an allergic reaction to the antibiotic (he's never needed an oral antibiotic before so we had not discovered that he is apparently allergic to penicillin) so after a worried call to the out-of-hours doctor we were advised to go straight to A&E. Well,n3.5 hours later we were back home. The nurses gave him Periton nearly straight away to calm down the allergic reaction (hives and increased wheezing) and then we waited nearly 2 hours for a doctor to come see him and say, "yes, it appears to be a reaction to the antibiotic. Let's give him a different one." Finally, we were home again at 5 am. Fortunately, X is asleep again and hopefully I will be soon.

I told Xander about Gerri while we were doing colouring together in the children's A&E. He was sad at first but took it in his stride (as he does most things). He asked if Gerri is a ghost now (I said she is either an angel or a very very good ghost) and he was very curious about the cemetery. He wanted to know what would happen to her and I explained a very simplified version of cremation and that her ashes would turn into flowers in the cemetery so that she could help cheer people up when they go their to visit their loved ones who have died. I think he liked that idea. I thought of Joe's snowdrops when I said it. 

I will be at the crematorium chapel in about 4 hours if all goes well and there are no more medical emergencies. I really wasn't expecting the last day to play out as it has but at least looking after my poorly Xander has helped me focus on the living wonder I have in my life. I told Xander that sometimes he will see me sad when I think of Gerri but that seeing him cheers me right up. 

I'm falling asleep now. Thank you for your thoughts my dear ladies. I'll update you soon. Xoxoxox


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## poppy666

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Suze

Oh my goodness what an awful time you've had, I'm so pleased x is better now but what a frightening way to find out he's allergic to penicillin. It actually made me think I suppose that is the only way to find out :shock:

I love the way you spoke to x about gerri :cloud9: and about her ashes and the flowers there. 

I think you will have said goodbye to the little one by now, I hope you found it peaceful and comforting even. You just take care of yourself and you know we are all here for you. I hope the rest of the day can also bring you some comfort and that your memories of gerri keep you warm. 

Fly high little one :angel:


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## Suze

Just thought you might need some more :hugs:


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## pip7890

What a beautiful way to explain about Gerri to X.

Sending you even more :hug:

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

Thank you ladies. Today wasn't as difficult as I feared it might be, and yes, I found peace and comfort. My mind is still in a sleep deprived haze but I think I can say I am okay in the end.

Gerri's funeral was beautiful and peaceful and comforting. We both cried like our floodgates had broken. I feel quite at peace at the moment though I've barely had a moment alone with my thoughts since yesterday morning, what with poor Xander's sudden illness. I'm not sure if my mental state will shift once I have some time alone for it to finish sinking in, but for now I am okay.

In the end I found something to wear that was both respectful and me (my wardrobe doesn't boast of much that intersects the two). We dropped X off with a close friend so we didn't need to worry about what was happening with him for a couple of hours. I picked up the flowers first though so that Xander could see the flowers ready that he chose for Gerri. They were so beautifully arranged. The lady in the flower shop prepared each individual flower with a matching bow and greenery so that it was like we had 8 tiny individual bouquets to lay around Gerri's coffin, 1 for each person / group of people (our parents and siblings families) that love her and will miss her. When she had asked how we wanted them arranged, I had just told her that we would be laying them down individually so just to make them easy to untie. She went to great lengths to make them very special and individual. I was so touched I nearly cried when I saw them. She only charged for the 8 basic flowers as well (£11.50!). I was amazed as her kindness.

We got to the cemetery a bit stressed as we thought we were running late but we made it with time to spare in the end. The chaplain was really lovely and kind (as a chaplain should be I suppose - he's the first I've met). He brought Gerri's coffin to us when it was time to proceed into the chapel and I carried her in as my partner felt it might be more than he could bare (I was just glad to have one last little thing I could do for her tbh). When we got to the chapel I set her coffin on the bier and we sat just in front of it (they had brought 2 chairs up for us so we could be near her) while the chaplain said his bit. Neither myself nor my partner are religious in any way so some of the more bibley things just sort of went over our heads but I found comfort in many things he said. More than anything, the kindness and compassion with which Gerri and ourselves were treated touched us.

After Father Grant finished his little talk and prayers, he started the music we had planned (Blackbird by the Beatles, Fljotavik by Sigur Ros (a hauntingly beautiful song, sung in Icelandic, about finding one's way through a stormy sea and finding rest at the end. We had played the album in hospital when I gave birth to Gerri), and Sail Across the Water by Jane Siberry). We laid the little bunches of flowers for Gerri around her coffin while the music played, pausing frequently to hold each other and cry. When the last song ended, Father Grant lowed the bier into the ground (for symbolism of the end, which I think we needed). It was heartbreaking in a way to be saying goodbye to my baby again, but I do feel it gave us both a sense of closure that we needed. 

After the service, we walked around the cemetery together for a little while, collecting ourselves and thinking of Gerri and talking about what we'd like to do to remember her in future. It was a beautiful time and befitted our little angel (or very very good little ghost, as Xander would say). I miss her like crazy but I also have peace now about the fact that she is gone.

I hope today has been kind to you ladies. Thank you for the mega hugs Poppy and for your kind thoughts and words Suze. All is greatly appreciated. I'm glad I could share the experience with you here, my sweet BnB friends. :hugs:

I think I am going to go be alone with my thoughts now...


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## poppy666

Beautiful!! Gerri will be at peace now with all the other little angels, your daughter will have been very proud of her mummy and daddy today :hugs: :hugs::hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Thank you Poppy, Suze and Pip for all the hugs. I am definitely feeling the love. xoxoxox


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## Suze

Oh what a beautiful and fitting day for your little girl, it sounds truly special and you seem at peace too which is good :hugs:
I'm not a hugely religious person but Gerri is with all these angels who are certainly in good company :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Hey there. I don't have much to add tonight, just that I am not doing so well. I feel like I have hit a state of emotional exhaustion so great that I can hardly think or feel anything at all. I've not managed to get out of bed until I absolutely had to (namely when it was time for my son to come home from school) for the last 2 days. My counselor has given me the simple goal of just getting out of bed, having a shower, and then not getting back into bed again, even if I do nothing more than lay on the sofa all day. Truthfully, I haven't even managed that much since Gerri's funeral. I need to pull myself together, I just can't seem to find anything inside myself to give me the energy or motivation to do so, aside from my son's needs, which thankfully are minimal and generally don't require any effort from me until mid-afternoon. I think I am coming down with whatever Xander had as well. He is almost better now, thankfully, but I am crumpling. Also, I can't seem to get these anxious TWW feelings out of my head since I ovulated. Me and OH made love the two consecutive nights before Ovulation (or my body's best effort at it) which means it's possible I could have conceived, which I can't seem to stop thinking about now. I just want to get the thought out of my head! Of course I would welcome any baby that wants to bestow itself upon us but I don't want to wish or hope for it right now, not so soon after losing Gerri and saying our final goodbyes. I just want peace in my head and I can't seem to find it. Aside from the TWW anxieties (for lack of better way to describe it, even though we aren't purposely TTC) I am mostly just numb. Still waiting for things to get easier, when they seem to just be getting harder. 1 step forwards, 2 steps back. That's my dance these days. Sorry to be so depressing. I truly hope things are looking up for the rest of you. THB, I haven't been keeping up with BnB posts the last couple of days since I wrote about Gerri's funeral. Maybe I should try that, might help me engage with the world, even in just a fly on the wall kind of way... Hugs to you all. xox


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## poppy666

Hey sweetie you've been through soooooooooooo much this last few months its understandable you was going to hit the wall sort of speak... I think we all need to hit that wall to drag ourself back up. I know i hit it other week and if it wasnt for Korben and his needs i think id be still in that dark hole now.

Plus if your coming down with what Xander had that wont help either, bless!! Just take each day as it comes and IF you concieved that night deal with that when you need to, just rest and get yourself well again sweetie :hugs::hugs:


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## pip7890

:hug:

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

Hey ladies. I'm sorry about going so quiet. I've not been in a good place but think I am starting to come through it now. I see my GP tomorrow about being signed off from work. I know I am not ready to go back yet. Don't know how much time to ask for though. Seems like this could go on forever. I hope things are looking up for you Poppy. I was nosing through your soy posts. Am seriously thinking about giving it a try when I am ready to "try". Been keeping up with your saga Suze. My heart goes out to you. :hugs:


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## poppy666

Hey sweetie nice to see you back, missed you :hugs: Can the doctor just not sign you off for another 4wks or so? no need to rush back you need time xx

Yes im going to try soy again once af shows her face but im going on 7wks now :growlmad:


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## allmuddledup

Hey again! I'm trying to get back to normal life but it's a slow process, particularly when I've gotten as low as I have lately. You may be right Poppy. Maybe I did have to hit bottom before I am able to climb back up. Either way, it seems that is what has happened!

I saw the doctor and she signed me off for another 2 weeks and is going to talk to my psych consultant about possibly using medication to help me at this stage. I am wary of doing so but also accept that if I can't pull myself up on my own then I need to take the help that is there. I have an appointment with my psych consultant Monday, unless they call me in the meantime and make it sooner.

I am pleased to announce that last night I slept almost soundly through the night and this morning got up at a very reasonable hour, without climbing back into bed to go back to sleep. Admittedly, I have just spent most of the day watching DVDs but at least I am in a better mood than I've been in weeks and don't feel afraid to face the world (still 'reluctant', but not afraid). May this progress continue! 

Now I have the afternoon/evening to look forward to with my son. We're on our own this evening as my partner picked up an extra shift at work today. I think we may do laundry... First time in over a week. Needs doing.

I have my follow-up appointment with the Gyne consultant tomorrow. I'm not sure what to expect but am hoping he will continue the PCOS investigations he started before I fell pregnant with Gerri. I hope tomorrow doesn't bring it all back and take me down to the ground again. I'm trying to stay optimistic and hope for a non-heartwrenching time.

How's life for my BnB buddies? Any sign of AF yet Poppy? Fingers crossed it is soon if not already here. Xoxox


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## pip7890

Sending you lots of :hug:

Pip x


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## poppy666

allmuddledup said:


> Hey again! I'm trying to get back to normal life but it's a slow process, particularly when I've gotten as low as I have lately. You may be right Poppy. Maybe I did have to hit bottom before I am able to climb back up. Either way, it seems that is what has happened!
> 
> I saw the doctor and she signed me off for another 2 weeks and is going to talk to my psych consultant about possibly using medication to help me at this stage. I am wary of doing so but also accept that if I can't pull myself up on my own then I need to take the help that is there. I have an appointment with my psych consultant Monday, unless they call me in the meantime and make it sooner.
> 
> I am pleased to announce that last night I slept almost soundly through the night and this morning got up at a very reasonable hour, without climbing back into bed to go back to sleep. Admittedly, I have just spent most of the day watching DVDs but at least I am in a better mood than I've been in weeks and don't feel afraid to face the world (still 'reluctant', but not afraid). May this progress continue!
> 
> Now I have the afternoon/evening to look forward to with my son. We're on our own this evening as my partner picked up an extra shift at work today. I think we may do laundry... First time in over a week. Needs doing.
> 
> I have my follow-up appointment with the Gyne consultant tomorrow. I'm not sure what to expect but am hoping he will continue the PCOS investigations he started before I fell pregnant with Gerri. I hope tomorrow doesn't bring it all back and take me down to the ground again. I'm trying to stay optimistic and hope for a non-heartwrenching time.
> 
> How's life for my BnB buddies? Any sign of AF yet Poppy? Fingers crossed it is soon if not already here. Xoxox

Hey sweetie how you feeling and how did your follow up Gyne appointment go? :hugs::hugs:

Waiting af still fx be Sunday... actually better be cos my temps were looking great up until today now they dropped a bit today so no bfp but af very very much welcome ' as long as not painful' :haha:


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## allmuddledup

I realised yesterday how long it's been since I last posted. I have had some ups and downs lately but am doing better overall than I was a week ago. My OH took me away for Valentines weekend which was really good for us and I am taking my son to Germany to see an old friend over half-term break for 5 days starting this Saturday. I am really looking forward to it and hoping to forget some of the heartache I've experienced these last couple of months.

The Gyne appointment went as well as could be expected I suppose. I spent about half an hour in the waiting room crying and trying to pull myself together and not succeeding. When it was my turn to see the consultant I mostly just sat and listened while he told me things I already knew about Gerri and said he wanted to see me again in 3 months to look at my hormone levels and the next steps in reviewing my reproductive health if me & OH haven't conceived again by then. I was glad he didn't send me away without any hope of future assistance altogether. I told him I am still very concerned about PCOS but he said they can't get an accurate picture of what my hormones are doing until at least 3 months has passed since last pregnancy... So my next appointment is 11 May, one week after I turn 35. Eek!

Finally, AF arrived on Sunday 13 February, just in time for Valentine's Day and exactly 7 weeks after saying goodbye to Gerri. It's been much heavier than usual which I think is a good sign as my periods were incredibly light for the 6 months before I conceived Gerri. I'm hoping it is a sign my body is working right.

I'm off to get my son from school now. I hope things are looking up for all my BnB buddies.


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## poppy666

Everything the same here sweetie, but nice to see you back online :hugs::hugs:


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## pip7890

:hug:

Pip x


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## Suze

Hi there I'm soooooo sorry I have been MIA lately :blush:

Sounds like you had a lovely Valentines weekend and you will be in Germany now so I'm hoping you are having fun, where in Germany? My mum moved back from Duesselldorf 6 months ago. 
You appointmet sounded good too, good in the sense that you have the option of support in the future.
How did the return of the af feel? I know I've often dreaded it as it's a very definite end but also have welcomed it knowing that my body has/is returning to normal. I thought I hadn't had an af but I now believe that a light bleed I had 4 weeks to the day of my erpc was the af as I then ov'd 2 weeks after that

So how do you feel about ttc? Is it going to be a relaxed approach or are you going to go for it?

How are you too Poppy? Has the witch returned for you yet and do you have some cycle clarity back yet?!

:hugs: to you both


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## allmuddledup

I'm back now from holiday, which was perfect & lovely & just what I needed. I'm just seriously bummed out to be back now. My home is still the same mess it was when I left (serious crazy-person-who-can't-throw-anything-out kind of mess) which was a shock to my system after having such a lovely time in my dear friend's large airy (clean) flat. I know it would help my mental state immensey if I could some how manage to declutter my home and make it a nice place to be (which it is about as far away from as it can be right now). My dear OH did do some tidying and clearing up while I was away but he was working most of the time we were away and most of the crap that causes me such despair is my stuff anyway so it's not really possible for anyone else to make the decisions of what needs to go and what can stay except for me. Even if I could just turn my back on all my stuff (both the things I want and the things I should let go of) there isn't even anyone I could PAY who would come along and clear it all away. I wish I could find someone who would work through it all with me until it's done. I don't have a lot of money (far from it) but I would spend every spare penny I have for someone to sort my house out with me. My OH is willing, but we are both so busy we have a very hard time finding time to work on it together and I can't seem to bring myself to do it on my own. I don't know what's wrong with me but whatever is holding me back just seems to be getting worse. I need help and I don't know where to turn.


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## poppy666

If i lived closer id come and help you :hugs: im terrible myself of keeping stuff i dont need, ive got boxes of stuff which OH keeps telling me i dont need, but they're my stuff... even when i try to i keep saying ' hmmm i may need that one day' so it goes back in the box :dohh:

OH Just gives up and says im a hoarder :shrug:


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## allmuddledup

Thanks Poppy. It helps to know I'm not the only one and that you can understand how it is. It's just gotten on top of me this last year and has gotten so bad I don't even know where to start now. My house is seriously starting to look like one of those ones you see on tellie documentaries where people have hoarded so much stuff they have to make tunnels to get from room to room. My friend that I just went to stay with in Germany actually came to see me just after the ectopic pregnancy and helped me sort a lot of stuff out but since the miscarriage nearly a year ago I started losing the plot and things have gotten worse than they've ever been (I've never found it easy organising my things tbh but I always managed to maintain some sense if order until now). I took one little step in the right direction today... I took my car to the hand-car-wash and got it cleaned inside out. It was only a little thing but a step in the right direction none-the-less. It made me feel better and less ashamed of myself for the state I've let things get in. Just gotta try to find the next thing I can tackle. Oh where to begin... The entire house, inside out, is in a desperate state.


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## poppy666

Never feel ashamed of yourself ever, you have been to hell and back and still trying to get through a day sweetie. My OH would love you because ive had my new car for over a year and never washed it once lol.

As for the house and where to start, maybe draw up a little rota for yourself spread over the next 3mths of which room to tackle first and take 1 hour in that room then come out and leave for the next day or 2nd day??

Maybe a little start on one room for an hour will help you get a little motivated to stay in that room half an hour more in a few days and so on :hugs:

Nobody has put a time limit on when it should be done, just do a bit at a time x


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## Suze

Hi nice to see you back :hugs:

Don't worry about your house, I do understand about you feeling you need to get it organised, I'm a bit like that. If things aren't organised in the house I think it has a reflection on how I feel mentally too. Poopy's idea was good though, just biting off a few small chunks at a time, don't put too much pressure on yourself at all :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

I'm sorry about jumping straight into a pity party and not even being civilised and addressing your posts. Thank you Poppy, Pip and Suze for your comments. I hope that you are all doing as well as possibly can be. Congratulations to you Suze on all your big news. I wish it was me looking at a BFP but I am realising I am way to big a mess right now to be ready for that. I just want to skip the whole painful and nervewracking TTC process. Lucky lucky you!! Anyway, I've got my fingers crossed that this is the one you get to keep. Hoping that for all of us actually, when our next BFPs arrive.

To reply to your Qs Suze, we went to Göttingen. It's my 5th time to go. one of my oldest and dearest friends is from there and it's my favourite place to go on holiday whenever I get the chance. What was your mum doing in Duesseldorf?? Have you got Deutsche blood?

As for the return of AF, honestly I just did my best not to think about it. I felt a little sad sometimes and a bit relieved at others. I was mostly just numb and also marvelling at the sheer amount of blood. I don't remember ever having a period that heavy and it lasted for over a week in all. I noticed a bit of yellow CM today which is new for me. Don't know what it means, if anything.

As for TTC, I would love to get a BFP but am not in a good place for making it happen at the moment. I'm totally not looking after myself or my diet (which is pretty important with PCOS) and my home looks like a disaster which I've told myself I should sort out before TTC again. I meant to deal with it before I conceived Gerri. I really think I should focus on getting my life together before trying to bring a baby into the mix again. I figured my nesting instinct would kick in when I fell pregnant last time but I just felt exhausted and sick all the time and never even started. I dunno... I don't feel like I deserve a baby right now, even if I could conceive right away. In the meantime, we are continuing with NTNP. It's the best option at this stage considering everything.

How about you Poppy? How is your cycle coming along? Does the soy seem to be working for you this cycle?


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## poppy666

WOW I missed that one, has Suze got a BFP? :wacko:

afm i dont know whats going on with my last 2 cycles, they've changed to 26 daysand ovulating on CD10 im thinking that isnt enough time for a mature egg to be fertilised, just dont know what to do. Soy i have no idea if it works or not till my cycle ends but with this short follicular phase i cant see it working, maybe i should just call it a day


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## Suze

Ellen don't say that you don't 'deserve' a baby right now :grr: :flower: You never know where NTNP might lead you, are you still up to speed with what cd you are on? 
Poppy sorry your cycles are all over the place. I don't even know if I had an actual proper af, however I did get positive opk's at the 'normal' time. It's all so confusing :wacko: 

Yeah I got a very unexpected bfp this week, based on one :sex: and using the withdrawal method :blush: I'm feeling very nervous about it but I have to say having had no ttc pressure was nice. Also Mark proposed!

Ellen I'm half German, Mum is German. I've never actually lived there just done a lot of visiting! Mum lived in the UK for 30+ years and moved back 18 years ago however moved back to the UK again last year after I had Ava who is her only grandchild. I've just booked flights today to go over for a wedding in May


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## pip7890

Hello Stranger. Good to have you back. Glad Germany worked out for you. 

You have had a hell of a time so please don't beat yourself up about the pace at which you are moving forward. The main thing is you are moving forward!

Poppy has given you some good advice about tackling what needs to be done. Have you got some close friends you can draft in to help? I'm good with a bin bag. How far are you from North Yorkshire?

Keep your chin up. We're here to support you. 

Big hugs. 

Pip x


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## poppy666

Oops i was thinking you lived in Surrey? North Yorkshire isnt that far from me :happydance:

Suze huge congratulations on proposal and BFP awww fx'd everything goes well lovely :hugs:


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## pip7890

I live near Harrogate Poppy. 

Congratulations Suze. 

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help Ellen. 

Pip x


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## poppy666

I go through Harrogate every Sunday heading to Durham to see friends with my little one... Yes Ellen me and Pip ready to roll our sleeves up and muck in if needed xx

Edited ahhh got wires crossed lol Ellen lives in Surrey, i thought she lived nearer ie Yorkshire...


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## pip7890

Lol. I've no idea where anyone lives! Offer still stands to help. Got car can travel!

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

Hello again everybody! It's good to see so much action here again. Both Suze & Poppy replied at the same time I was writing my last post. 

YES, that is a very good suggestion Poppy. I think I may try making a list of all the jobs/piles/corners/shelves/cupboards/boxes that need addressing, room by room, and think about what order I will attempt to tackle them in, starting with the easiest, working my way down the list. I find that organising myself on paper helps my get my head round things.

Oh Pip, I wish we were neighbours! Unfortunately, I'm all the way down in SW greater London. I'd have you all round if you wanted to join me!!

Suze, that's really cool about your half-Germaness. I hope you enjoy your trip in May. We are talking about going again for our family holiday in the summer. I'm America myself but been living in the UK for nearly 7 years. Don't have any family here. OH doesn't have much family either and no one that would be willing to get their hands dirty with my mess I'm afraid. I do have a few friends that I might be able to recruit for a little time here and there. It's just a matter of being ready to deal with it myself before I can justify dragging anyone else into if IYKWIM.

OH is waiting for me to come to bed now. He is being really optimistic and showing his support. Just need to keep the momentum going til we achieve something!


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## poppy666

Well you know where we are if you need us, sleep well sweetie :hugs:


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## allmuddledup

Wow, I missed a whole bunch of other replies that you lovely ladies left while I was writing my last reply.

I woke up at about 5:30, not intentional! LO & OH are still sleeping. Wish I was! I had a really weird dream that I fell pregnant under mysterious circumstances (the 'father' was an old _female_ friend that I fell out with years ago - how does THAT happen?? Lol. Then, after finding out I was pregnant I spent the rest if the dream running around the hospital trying to find my consultant and my antenatal vitamins! Very weird dream.) A few nights ago I dreamed I went back to work and completely fell apart. I kept trying to tell the supervisers that I needed to leave cuz I was freaking out and they wouldn't listen to me and wouldn't let me leave. I woke up very panicked. Honestly, I don't know that I'm really ready to return to work but I feel like I should try. I've agreed a return to work date with my supervisor - the 2nd March. I have an appointment with Occ Health on Tuesday to create a return-to-work plan. I wish it was sooner so I knew what to expect in regards to my hours, etc. I have a few appointments scheduled that I need to work around (psychiatrist, psychologist, Physiotherapy). I'm not looking forward to going back but I know I can't continue to sit at home in my hovel and expect to get better either. I'm completely lacking in motivation right now.

Thank you so much Pip for your offer. It really is a very long way to mine though (yes Poppy, you are right, I am in Surrey, the north edge near Kingston upon Thames). I wouldn't feel right asking anyone to come that distance when I don't even know if I will be ready to deal with the problem yet myself. I think Poppy's suggestion about taking on an hour every couple of days might work for me. I freak out when I try to think of doing more than that. I spent the whole day yesterday just looking around me thinking 'where can I start?' and just shying away from it altogether. OH said he'd help me today. We have LO underfoot though as it's still half-term so I don't expect much to actually happen.

In other (happier) news, OH and I DTD for the first time since before I went to Germany. We were both really knackered and we didn't think we even had the energy for it but we managed to find the spark. I am trying not to let myself get obsessed about conceiving again but even in my sleep it's happening. That's part of what woke me up at 5:30 - Dreaming about it!! I'm not even fertile right now! In answer to your Q Suze, I'm on CD13 which means I probably have another week before my body even tries to ovulate (my cycles have ranged from 33 to 44 days in the last year). Even when it does come time, I don't know if I will actually ovulate. It's not uncommon for me to have annovulatory cycles where my body _tries_ (I get LH surge and ov pain) but either an egg doesn't come forth or it does and my progesterone level poops out and, either way, it does not succeed. The cycle I conceived Gerri I had been on a low-GI diet for 5 weeks and I ovulated on CD30. I don't really have much hope that I will conceive right now as I have not been looking after myself, particularly in regards to my diet, which obviously has a big impact on my fertility. I don't know how many of my cycles were annovulatory after the miscarriage but I know that at least one was (and 5 other cycles when we didn't conceive despite excellent timing). Sadly, it's more than just timing when dealing with PCOS. I need to sort myself out.


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## pip7890

How overwhelmed you feel at the moment is bouncing off the page at me. I understand that feeling as I've often found myself in that position. The fact that you recognise it is very good.

As much as you are a super woman, you are NOT "superwoman"! I think deep down you know what needs to be done but you've just lost your way a little. When I get like that (and I do because I have a depressive personality) I take a deep breath, get my pen and paper out and plan. What's a priority? What's not? What can I delegate? What do I need to do myself? and so on. When I'm being "attacked" from all directions I can't function. When I "order" those thoughts and actions I'm better able to focus and therefore cope. 

I'm doing this by phone at the moment so not quite as eloquent as I'd like to be. 

Enjoy your day with LO and OH. 

:hug:

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

Thank you Pip. That was perfectly eloquent. I'm taking mental notes. Will be dragging out my paper and pen soon as well. It helps to have it laid out like that. Thank you. Xoxox


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## allmuddledup

I've managed to deal with the clothes in my bedroom that, for the last several months, have been living in a laundry basket or piled up on the floor in front of my wardrobe. I sifted through them and was able to let go of several items that I've been holding onto for years but no longer needed. I also finally managed to put all of my maternity clothes into a bag which my OH will be hauling into the loft later. What's left is an assortment of clothes I mostly wear or hope to be wearing in the near future once I stop binge eating and get back on a low-GI diet. Truthfully, I'd rather be wearing the maternity clothes!! I don't want to put pressure on myself and get stressed out about TTC though. Sigh.

I hit my limit on the scales today (I refuse to weigh more than 13 stone ever again unless I'm pregnant!) and am trying to be sensible about what I put in my mouth, something I've pretty much disregarded for the last 2 months. Sadly, I have lots of delightful treats in the kitchen that I only bought in the last few weeks (including some wonderful German goodies) that I need to either find a new home for or find the strength to ration out to myself and family in tiny portions only so as to put a stop to this super-unhealthy streak I am on. I don't know if I can find the discipline to control myself. One thing I must do though - stop bringing junk food into the house!!! That's easy enough for me to do. The real challenge lies in not eating it once it is in the house.

I was just reading over the latest posts. Wanted to say I'm sorry to hear your cycles are still wacky Poppy. How are you feeling now? I've heard repeatedly that it can take up to 3 cycles after a miscarriage for everything to truly get back to normal. Of course there is no harm TTC, just might not be able to expect your body to be acting entirely normal yet. My cycles never were quite normal at the best of times so I'm not holding my breath for a BFP anytime soon, especially when my weight is so high and diet so poor. Eating so badly with PCOS is like poking a bear with a stick. It can't end well.

I have a feeling that when I get a grip on myself and get back on the low-GI diet we'll have some luck, whether NTNP or actively TTC. I hope. I'm just taking things one day at a time still. I think I will be able to get some discipline with my diet back once I am in a regular routine and at work again. Work gives me a structure that I just don't create on my own. I hope I don't have to dig too deep to find the motivation required to stick to the diet. It's not even complex, it mostly just requires planning ahead so I have the right foods around me at the right time and resisting the stuff that messes up my blood-sugar levels. I've been on a rather self-destructive bent lately with all the junk I have consumed in such large quantities. Lucky for me, my OH is really into fitness (but still appreciates his lady well padded, thank god!) so he will help keep me on the straight & narrow if I ask him to. Have I mentioned lately how lucky I am with my OH? :) He's wonderful.

How are my lovely buddies doing? I hope all is well for each of you. :hugs:


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## pip7890

I'm at work so shouldn't be posting and should be packing up and heading out of the door. However, I didn't want to read and run.

WELL DONE YOU!

You have actually achieved a lot today, and it is clear you have great insight into what's troubling you and what you need to do to put it right. As I was reading I thought I can identify with that, she's punishing herself and lo and behold in the next paragraph you go and say that!

I'm about a 1lb short of 13stone and being just over 5'4" it isn't a good look! I was only 12st 7lb when I was full term with my son 14 years ago so I can't blame baby weight. I too have been punishing myself recently, don't want to put the maternity clothes away, keep putting on elasticated waistbands and putting off the gym!

Come on. How's about we kick each other's backsides?!!! 

I'm really proud of you.

:hug:

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

You said it Pip. You are an incredibly insightful woman. It hadn't even occurred to me that I am punishing myself, but that is *exactly* what I'm doing. I was reading through some of your old posts. It sounds like we have at least a few things in common. I really appreciate your advice and support. As for backside kicking, I'm in! 

I am proud of myself today. After getting up early to drive OH to the train station for work, instead of driving straight home and climbing back into bed like I would normally do, I drove down to the swimming pool to enquire about rates & lessons for my son (something I have meant to do for about 2 years), then drove us home & fixed breakfast. I've decided that I am going to start each day with a healthy low-GI breakfast even if I don't manage to eat anything else right, it's a place to start. When I'm ready I will start changing other meals. Dinner is the easiest meal for me to get right at the moment so I will probably stick to that most of the time as well. The real challenge will lie in getting lunch right and cutting out the really naugty snacks and binge-eating on junk food. That's my weak spot at the moment. 

Today is the 2 monthiversary of losing Gerri. I still feel very sad about it (I always will, I'm sure) but I don't feel as debilitated by the fact that we lost her and I feel almost ready to move on now. I think packing away the maternity clothes yesterday was a good first step. Getting my health back on track is the next. I think the house will fall into line if I can just stay focussed on doing the right things for myself and my family. I don't want to fall back down that dark scary tunnel of depression. It took a holiday to pull me out of it and I can't afford another one of those for a while. I really hope I can keep my chin up and not fall apart again. 

I'm off to have a bath and a shave now so I can take my son swimming (something else I haven't done for about 2 years except for when we've been on holiday). Here's to taking baby-steps in the right direction! Wish me luck!!


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## allmuddledup

Well, I managed to take my son to the pool but we got there so late we only had half an hour to swim (which was enough for me, but not enough for Xander) as he had a birthday party to go to after. When it was time to go, he scuttled off in the other direction and didn't get out of the pool until about the 5th time I called him which really frustrated me and I lost my temper with him. I was doing so well until my frustrated meltdown (hopefully he'll listen next time anyway) but am feeling really down on myself again. 

It didn't help that we were late arriving at the party and someone from the school that I am rather uncomfortable around (long story that boils down to gossip and politics at his school) greeted us at the door which just brought back my paranoia about what's happened there (I can still barely face dropping him off and picking him up from school because of it) and now I am waiting for pick-up time to roll around. I am feeling rather inadequate and insecure at the moment. 

On a positive note, I have managed to eat very healthily today with no binges. I hope I can still say that by the end of the day. I really should try not to expect too much of myself though. The greater the expectations, the greater the fall when I slip up. Not the greatest optimism there, I know. Just trying to be realistic.


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## pip7890

allmuddledup said:


> I am proud of myself today.
> 
> After *getting up early to drive OH to the train station for work*, instead of driving straight home and climbing back into bed like I would normally do, *I drove down to the swimming pool* to enquire about rates & lessons for my son (something I have meant to do for about 2 years), then drove us home & *fixed breakfast*.

Wow, look at all the positive actions you got involved in BEFORE breakfast! You're right to be proud of yourself.



allmuddledup said:


> I've decided that I am going to start each day with a healthy low-GI breakfast even if I don't manage to eat anything else right, it's a place to start. When I'm ready I will start changing other meals. Dinner is the easiest meal for me to get right at the moment so I will probably stick to that most of the time as well. The real challenge will lie in getting lunch right and cutting out the really naugty snacks and binge-eating on junk food. That's my weak spot at the moment.

That sounds like a really sensible approach - baby steps again! I'm a sucker for chocolate myself, hence the waistline!



allmuddledup said:


> Today is the 2 monthiversary of losing Gerri. I still feel very sad about it (I always will, I'm sure) but I don't feel as debilitated by the fact that we lost her and I feel almost ready to move on now. I think packing away the maternity clothes yesterday was a good first step.

I lost my baby on 26 December at 10w 3d. I'd just bought lots of maternity clothes as I was very bloated and due to head off for a foreign holiday a couple of weeks later. After the miscarriage I just put the clothes in a drawer. Every time I open it I'm reminded of what I've lost. I think I will follow your lead tomorrow and put them away in a suitcase. I have to keep believing I will get to use them again.



allmuddledup said:


> Getting my health back on track is the next. I think the house will fall into line if I can just stay focussed on doing the right things for myself and my family. I don't want to fall back down that dark scary tunnel of depression.

Each day you are a little bit stronger but you won't notice it until you need your strength. It's like you don't see how your LO grows day by day, but when someone sees him after a month or so they're surprised how much he's grown. Your strength is like that. It will keep on growing.

Good luck!



allmuddledup said:


> Well, I managed to take my son to the pool but we got there so late we only had half an hour to swim (which was enough for me, but not enough for Xander) as he had a birthday party to go to after. When it was time to go, he scuttled off in the other direction and didn't get out of the pool until about the 5th time I called him which really frustrated me and I lost my temper with him. I was doing so well until my frustrated meltdown (hopefully he'll listen next time anyway) but am feeling really down on myself again.

Well done for getting to the pool - 30 minutes would be more than enough for me too. Good to see that you LO is behaving completely normal! Doesn't get better, mine is still like that at times and he's 14!!!! If I don't have a meltdown at least once a week they start worrying about me!!!



allmuddledup said:


> It didn't help that we were late arriving at the party and someone from the school that I am rather uncomfortable around (long story that boils down to gossip and politics at his school) greeted us at the door which just brought back my paranoia about what's happened there (I can still barely face dropping him off and picking him up from school because of it) and now I am waiting for pick-up time to roll around. I am feeling rather inadequate and insecure at the moment.

You can't change what people think of you, nor can you change their behaviour BUT you can change how you think of yourself and how you behave. Rise above it. Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent (not my quote - it's off a fridge magnet!!)



allmuddledup said:


> On a positive note, I have managed to eat very healthily today with no binges. I hope I can still say that by the end of the day. I really should try not to expect too much of myself though. The greater the expectations, the greater the fall when I slip up. Not the greatest optimism there, I know. Just trying to be realistic.

I'm so impressed with you. What a great day you've had. 

:hug:

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

Thank you Pip for pointing out everything I've done right. I tend to completely overlook those things when something goes wrong in the midst of it all. I am not feeling as positive today as I started out yesterday but I'm still gonna get things done. I drove OH to the station again today but then had an argument with my son about going swimming (he wanted me to take him again today which I probably would have said yes to if he hadn't pulled his running-off stunt yesterday). 

I started the day out right again anyway with my low-GI breakfast. I'm really pleased to say I managed to finish the day quite well yesterday dietarily (all my meals were reasonably low-GI and I only allowed myself 2 small treats all day. Yay!) I'm currently doing laundry (there is A LOT due to the sorting of my clothes I did on Friday) and will be hauling it all down to the laundromat later to tumble dry it all. At the moment all I want to do is climb back in bed. I think I will allow myself that for a little while, maybe while the clothes are drying. Hmmm, yes. Sounds good. 

I'm sorry for the mundane reports of my days. I know it doesn't make for exciting reading. It does help me carry on doing the things I should though when I feel accountable to someone. Makes it easier to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Thank you so much for cheering me on. :hugs:


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## pip7890

Good afternoon

I'm just back in, cold and wet after a morning cheering on the boys at hockey. I could really do with a sleep myself as I'm so tired. What I'm going to do instead is put away my maternity clothes - you've inspired me to take action. 

Do you have a journal on here? We could move our chats over there and then we can all be as mundane as we like!!!

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

That's fantastic Pip. How did it go putting away your maternity clothes?

I think I will start myself a TTC Journal. Thanks for the suggestion. I am still trying to get my head around how all these things work on here. As it will take a little while to write the first post it might be a couple of days before it's up. I'll link here when I've made it. 

In the meantime, how are all my lovely buddies doing today? Xoxox


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## pip7890

Good morning!

Clothes packed away. I did it whilst having a hormonal outburst at oh and DS so in the end it wasn't as difficult as I expected. 

I tried to eat better today. Had porridge for breakfast and was going to have some yoghurt mid morning. Got caught in a meeting and by the time I got back to it, it was warm. Had to have a choccie biscuit instead!

Looking forward to your journal. 

Pip x


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## baileykenz

just read all the thread..
you girls are great..
just come out of hosp after evacuation on friday..
xx


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## pip7890

Hello BailyKenz. So sorry about your loss. 

I'm part of a loss support group called TTC After Loss 2011 BFP. You can find us under groups on the TTC forum. Feel free to join us over there. 

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

Hi BaileyKenz. I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. Also, apologies for the mad ramblings here. We kind of got off topic, but it helped me so much to hear from my buddies on here I just kept writing under this thread. I am in the process of starting a journal now as this thread is obviously no longer about infection after ERPC. I might get it going tonight if my brain doesn't flake out before I get the first post written.

Pip, I'm so glad you managed to deal with your maternity clothes. Also glad it wasn't too hard to do due to "distractions". Well done on the healthy breakfast! Don't worry too much about the choc biscuit... You always have the chance to improve with the next thing you put in your mouth. I ended a nearly perfect day on my low-GI diet by eating about a dozen biscuits that I brought back from Germany. I wasn't too hard on myself, though, as I was so good the rest of the day. Yay me!

I'm pleased to announce, I have managed to be quite productive for the last 3 days as well as eating right and getting in a little exercise each day as well. I'm quite proud of myself. I couldn't even imagine myself functioning at this level 2 months ago. Also, I've decided I am ready to TTC. My body isn't ready (still have sluggish ovulation, prolly due to poor diet), but mentally I am ready now. I've come a long way in the last couple of weeks, eh? Wow...

Poppy? Suze? Where are you ladies hiding?? I hope all is well. Please please come look for me under my journal when I get it up and running. Watch this space for link!!

xoxoxoxox


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## poppy666

Im lurking sweetie :hugs: been so wrap up on this cycle messing up and hormones i didnt want to come in here moaning, but hope your ok lovely x


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## allmuddledup

Poppy! It's so good to hear from you! Glad to know you were lurking but sorry you are having a rough time of it. You can moan all you like with me. I've just set up my TTC journal here:

https://www.babyandbump.com/ttc-journals/549742-allmuddledups-ttc-after-3-losses-journal.html

I decided this weekend that I am finally ready to TTC. I won't be using OPKs (I don't need them as I can feel ovulation coming a mile away now!) or temping just yet but we are going to be giving it our best shot in the bedroom (my favourite part!). I just started the low-GI diet again (I conceived Gerri 5 weeks after starting it last time!). Wish me luck!

I'm going to have to go have a lurk in your posts now! :hugs:

Edit: wonderful photo btw Poppy. Your li'l Korbin is so gorgeous.


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## poppy666

Thanks and thats amazing news sweetie im totally made up for you and will gladly follow your journal :hugs:

Lifted my spirits that news :kiss:


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## pip7890

Watch out. I'm coming over!!!!!!

Pip x


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## allmuddledup

For anyone who'd like to follow my journey, you can find me at:

https://www.babyandbump.com/ttc-journals/549742-allmuddledups-ttc-after-3-losses-journal.html

Hope to see you there!! Xoxox


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