# Waiting to cut cord?



## special_kala

Is anyone else planning on waiting until the cord has stopped pulsating before cutting it?


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## PeanutBean

Yes. I wanted to last time but the doctor was worried about blood loss from the epis. We got a few minutes but not as long as I'd have liked. Ideally I'd like a natural third stage and after reading about lotus births it'd be nice to keep her attached a little while after delivery, all being well.


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## special_kala

Do you know how long it usually takes to stop?


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## PeanutBean

Off the of my head I'm thinking maybe 10 mins ish, though that could be entirely made up! Lol Someone on here will know.


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## chuck

I want to delay cord clamping and then I'm cutting it.

I want to maximize baby getting everything it can from the placenta but also time where it's just me and them all wet and new and brilliant...I didnt get any of that last time so I plan on indulging myself this time around.


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## Greta Chick

I'm planning on waiting again. We waited until it had stopped pulsating after DD was born before hubby cut the cord and I want to wait again this time. 

xx


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## silver_penny

The time it takes to stop from pulsing at the umbilical base varies from 1 1/2 hours to 3 hours. (This info was taken from a midwifery textbook) Delayed clamping has so many benefits to both mother and baby.


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## Jenniflower

special_kala said:


> Do you know how long it usually takes to stop?

I just had my midwife around today and she told me it can take anywhere from 15-45 min. :flower:


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## Annunakian

Holy geez that's some time! I'd like to wait as long as possible to clamp and cut. They cut my sons immediately after he came out and I was disappointed.


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## silver_penny

The 15-45 minutes is for the cord to stop pulsing in the center. However, it is best to wait until it stops pulsing at the base of the umbilicus, which is usually 1 1/2 to 3 hours :flower:

I personally waited 12 hours before cutting my DS2's cord. Much to my surprise, there was still a little blood in it and we had to tie it. I'm thinking next time I'm going to have a Lotus birth.


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## Mervs Mum

I LOVE the sound of Lotus. I think if I had anymore that's the way I'd go.

We've left ours to pulse with all 3. I cant remember with my first baby but the second as 15 mins and the 3rd was 10 mins with the placenta delivered straight after (physiological). There is some anecdotal evidence that if the mum stays in the same position if helps speed up a physiological 3rd stage. My last clients took 35 mins and she was sat in the same spot in the pool for comfort having skin to skin. It seemed much shorter actually. BFing also helps too.

A baby who's cord is clamped right away doesnt have all the blood it's supposed to start life with. Sometimes it's necessary to clamp but if it's not then they should ideally be allowed to have ALL their blood and the goodness that goes with it. Effectively it's like them having a hemorrhage if it's not allowed to cross over.


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## PeanutBean

What's the relationship (if any) between pulsating and natural third stage? I realise MM has said a bit in the post above. Can the placenta naturally come while the cord is pulsing or does it not detach until after? Does perhaps the cessation of pulsing trigger the third stage?


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## Jenniflower

PeanutBean said:


> What's the relationship (if any) between pulsating and natural third stage? I realise MM has said a bit in the post above. Can the placenta naturally come while the cord is pulsing or does it not detach until after? Does perhaps the cessation of pulsing trigger the third stage?

That's a great question. I have no answers, but I can't wait to read one. :)


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## Mervs Mum

I would imagine that the placenta will have to have stopped or almost stopped pulsing to detach.....the source of the pulsing being your circulation via the placenta and down the cord.....so once the blood vessels begin to close off and so the placenta detaches I'd assume there is nothing to 'pump' the blood so if it hasnt already stopped it would naturally stop right after it comes away.....:shrug: Does that even make sense? :lol: That's my guess but I will ask my MW friend for a proper explanation!


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## PeanutBean

That does make sense but assumes that the connections between the placenta and the uterus are directly physiologically linked to blood flow (which of course is probably the case) by which I mean there could be another mechanism that causes detachment and the shutting off of the blood, naturally detachment must cause the cord to stop pulsing as there will be no pulse anymore, it being a maternal pulse. But it would be so interesting if, for example, bf triggered hormonal release in the baby that fed back to the placenta triggering hormonal release there which caused the blood flow to cease and tha in turn caused detachment of the placenta. It's fascinating to think of how these different processes might be connected and the influences they might exert. It could be the placenta stuff is entirely materially driven; could be mother hormones from bf that stimulate it. Could be that waiting a little to bf could actually prolong the time tip detachment, in a good way, allowing more blood to flow to the baby. I wonder if it's even at all understood?!


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## Mervs Mum

I imagine it is a hormonal trigger as everything else with labour and birth very much is. Perhaps it's the flood of oxytocin once the baby is there that triggers it......I'll certainly as the question of the medical peeps and see what their understanding is....I imagine it's quite complex!


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## PeanutBean

I bet it's not fully understood. Clearly the synthetic hormone detaches the placenta but I bet that's not the whole story in a natural delivery.


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## Jenniflower

Here's a question. Would you rather have cord traction done if you've past the hour limit they usually allow or would you rather just have the shot since baby is no longer attached to it?


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## Mervs Mum

I'd wait longer than an hour. I dont like the idea of traction at all.


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## Dragonfly

I asked a few times in hospital and had it on my birth plan which they told me in labour they dont do that. so I didnt get that. :( I know this is home birth but its great home birth I think as you can choose to do that. I wish my hospital had done this.


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## Jenniflower

Mervs Mum said:


> I'd wait longer than an hour. I dont like the idea of traction at all.

Well yea, but an hour is usually a guideline for how long they let it stay in until they get worried. So say you convinced them to even let it stay in for 1 hour and 30 min. But it still wasn't coming out. What is the lesser of two evils?


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## Mervs Mum

That's so sad :( My hospital and Birth Centre births were both delayed clamping.


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## Jenniflower

Dragonfly said:


> I asked a few times in hospital and had it on my birth plan which they told me in labour they dont do that. so I didnt get that. :( I know this is home birth but its great home birth I think as you can choose to do that. I wish my hospital had done this.

That's horrible they wouldn't listen to you about that! :(


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## Mervs Mum

Jenniflower said:


> Mervs Mum said:
> 
> 
> I'd wait longer than an hour. I dont like the idea of traction at all.
> 
> Well yea, but an hour is usually a guideline for how long they let it stay in until they get worried. So say you convinced them to even let it stay in for 1 hour and 30 min. But it still wasn't coming out. What is the lesser of two evils?Click to expand...

The Mws at the last HB I was at were happy with 2 hours....not that it was needed.

If you are asking me my opinion for me personally, I'd wait 2 hours and then try a few different positions. Get on the loo, squat, more breast feeding etc. then maybe some very gently massage of the tummy/uterus and finally the injection rather than traction. That's purely ME. I just couldnt stand them pulling. It think I'd puke or pass out at the thought! :lol:


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## PeanutBean

Having read about a woman's uterus being inverted by a careless doctor I'd definitely go for the shot! I had to have it last time anyway because of blood loss from the epis.


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## Dragonfly

Jenniflower said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> I asked a few times in hospital and had it on my birth plan which they told me in labour they dont do that. so I didnt get that. :( I know this is home birth but its great home birth I think as you can choose to do that. I wish my hospital had done this.
> 
> That's horrible they wouldn't listen to you about that! :(Click to expand...

"its not normal practise" was the answer I got when begging in labour. They said they try and meet your birth plan as best they can. Just not what you want I take it. Seems to be get baby out fast as you can. I didnt get Alex for a good half an hour later but William got him within minutes also wouldnt do the delay. I didnt even know what they gave me in labour I found out later it was what was making me and Alex sick and alex was asleep and couldnt feed for 2 days nearly. Not having any more any way so no next times.


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## indigo_fairy

I've been reading up on the cord clamping and how beneficial it is to have the baby get the blood instead of it go to waste as such, and I want to delay it. The only thing I'm worried about as my first labour went from wanting totally natural birth to emcs (took a long time to accept that but it WILL be different this time) is that even if I have any kind of notes on my 'birth plan' they won't be taken notice of again.. 

I'm not sure what my maternity unit's policy is for waiting time, they usually just seem to want to rush through the 3rd stage though from what I've heard from friends. 

If I'm delaying the cutting of the cord I don't want the injection to speed up the placenta do I?

I also read that the baby needs to be lower than the placenta so gravity can do it's job to get the blood back to baby, so would lying down with baby BF not work as well?


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## helen1234

my hospital will assist, well at vbac clinic she said they will and she had statistics on it regarding Alzheimer's reuction,and autism in boys

x


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## broodylocket

wow, i didnt know u didnt have to cut the cord straight away, i would of waited but as my son needed oxygen i couldnt of done but will do next time i hope


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## SIEGAL

I was considering doing that but my husband really wanted to do the cord blood banking and I wasn't gonna argue with "if she god forbid needs it in the future you'll never forgive yourself" but i do think its a great idea otherwise.


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## NaturalMomma

Yes that's what we did. We waited until after the placenta was born.


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## Jenniflower

indigo_fairy said:


> I've been reading up on the cord clamping and how beneficial it is to have the baby get the blood instead of it go to waste as such, and I want to delay it. The only thing I'm worried about as my first labour went from wanting totally natural birth to emcs (took a long time to accept that but it WILL be different this time) is that even if I have any kind of notes on my 'birth plan' they won't be taken notice of again..
> 
> I'm not sure what my maternity unit's policy is for waiting time, they usually just seem to want to rush through the 3rd stage though from what I've heard from friends.
> 
> If I'm delaying the cutting of the cord I don't want the injection to speed up the placenta do I?
> 
> I also read that the baby needs to be lower than the placenta so gravity can do it's job to get the blood back to baby, so would lying down with baby BF not work as well?

It's crazy how beneficial it is and how it's not really common practice.
You should talk to your midwife about how important it is to you, and though I know she won't be there on the day but she can help you find your voice to let those midwives who will be know. In addition just make sure you go through your birth plan with the midwife as soon as you get into hospital. Don't worry at all about what they think. It's not your job to analyze how they perceive you. It's their job to help you achieve your birth. I think to often women worry about what the midwives will think of them if they seem to pushy or needy (myself included in this). We should all stop worrying about it though.

I would say if you're going natural then go natural with your third stage as well. I have in my birth plan that I would like a physiolocical third stage. They'll wait up to an hour to deliver the placenta and if after that time it hasn't come then I am ok with getting the shot so long as the cord has been clamped. My midwife mentioned it can take anywhere from 15min-45min for the cord to stop pulsing.

And though you've heard from friends that they just seem to want to rush through the third stage that doesn't mean that they won't know what to do when you ask for the cord to stop pulsing. I've been learning that it's becoming more and more a practice of waiting so you'd be surprised. One simple mention of "I would like the cord to stop pulsing before cutting" and I'm certain the midwives would be fine with this. It's only if there's an emergency should they need to cut it sooner.


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## Mervs Mum

Broodylocket all the time your son was attached to the placenta, he WAS getting oxygen.

The baby doesnt need to be lower than the placenta. That's not true. The cord is that length so the baby can reach your breast. :)


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## Bournefree

I think that it is good to understand that the placenta can take it's time to come away. Before my DD was born, and we were at antinatal classes (both NCT and community hospital), the timings for the 3rd stage were given to us as; 15min for a managed 3 stage and physiological about 30 to 45 min. However, this isn't always the case! Mine took just under 2 hours to come away.. and no one was worried. I would be perfectly happy to wait this amount of time again.

The plusing of our cord took about 20-30min to stop with us.

It is stimulated both by baby and mother. In the first instance by the baby taking it's first breaths - as the babies circulation rapidly has to change from circulating to the cord and the placenta for oxygen, to the plumonary lung circulation. Cutting the babies blood flow just inside babies belly button as the redirection to lung circulation is very very important. Second action to stop pulsation, is the hormonal changes within the mother, as the placental circulation is contracted with oxytocin produced with in the mothers brain. The tissues restrict, initiating the disconnection of the placenta, and the sitimulation of the uterus to contract and deliver the placenta.
So baby will rapidly NOT be receiving any blood from the placenta upon taking first breaths. (even though the blood within the cord is babies blood not the mother's - the oxygen and neutrient exchange point is in the placenta) The remaining plusing of the cord comes from the placental circulation from the mother to the cord, and won't stop until the placental connection has been restricted.
However both stages of this can be delayed.. so until babies breathing is established, and not taking cord blood, there isn't the negative feedback needed (of the blood not circulating t baby) to stimulate the constriction on the uterus at the site of the placenta. It is all very interconnected! I would never, never want to have cord cut before babies breathing was established!! In fact DD was born in water, so it was essential for her to come up for air first - as she was still getting all her needs from me, until those first few breaths, she didn't really know she was born! This in my mind is similar to being on land, and cutting the cord immediatly without established breathing - It is akin to baby suffocating. (not to be too dramatic!)

So in summary, it is better for the mother and baby if cord is allowed to stop circulating blood to baby, before clamping or cutting (if you need to cut at all)
I don't want (and didn't with my first) to have the cord cut at all. Though I have to say, that we did have a cord cut after 30mins with DD as I needed to walk about, as I had the most painful cramp in my whole leg that I have ever experianced!!! Cest la vie!
xXx


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## Mervs Mum

I had a 10 min physiological 3rd stage - that's pretty good going. I've seen 35mins to 1 hr 25 mins - even that didnt FEEL long TBH. The hour or so after a baby is born goes soooooo fast!


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## indigo_fairy

Thanks everyone for all that info, I feel I'm really in the dark with it all because of my first birth. I never even got to see the placenta or cord (even though I did request it in my birth plan) I guess it changed a bit on the day. I since read that I could've had her straight on to me uncleaned, as I wanted but I didn't get the opportunity to even ask at the time, it was all too quick. Felt like she was ripped out of me and poked and prodded, and wrapped in a rough blanket against her poor delicate skin.

She even got given to DH for what seemed like ages, my body went into shock and I couldn't breathe, as soon as the midwives took notice of what I was saying and saw I was struggling to breath they told him to give our baby to me, which suddenly made me able to breath. So I obviously want to do things very differently this time. Got plenty of time to research and discuss what I want, and it'll hopefully go more to plan (I hope!).


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## Guera

I really wanted to delay cord clamping with my last babe, unfortunately I have c-sections, and the Dr. really isnt patient with waiting. 
I wonder if anyone has advice on how to ask for delayed clamping/cutting with a c-section.


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## Annunakian

indigo_fairy said:


> Thanks everyone for all that info, I feel I'm really in the dark with it all because of my first birth. I never even got to see the placenta or cord (even though I did request it in my birth plan) I guess it changed a bit on the day. I since read that I could've had her straight on to me uncleaned, as I wanted but I didn't get the opportunity to even ask at the time, it was all too quick. Felt like she was ripped out of me and poked and prodded, and wrapped in a rough blanket against her poor delicate skin.

That's how I feel. My son was born very quickly due to I was throwing up when I was pushing him out. DH said the MW almost dropped him as is because he shot out so fast. I didn't see him AT ALL. They cut the cord, got him on the table, resuscitated him (probably because they cut the cord so fast), poked him, prodded him, eye gelled him and god knows what else since the nurses were hovering over the heated table and I couldn't see a damn thing. :nope: Sometimes I look back and think they didn't want me to see what was going on. :cry:


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## indigo_fairy

Annunakian said:


> indigo_fairy said:
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for all that info, I feel I'm really in the dark with it all because of my first birth. I never even got to see the placenta or cord (even though I did request it in my birth plan) I guess it changed a bit on the day. I since read that I could've had her straight on to me uncleaned, as I wanted but I didn't get the opportunity to even ask at the time, it was all too quick. Felt like she was ripped out of me and poked and prodded, and wrapped in a rough blanket against her poor delicate skin.
> 
> That's how I feel. My son was born very quickly due to I was throwing up when I was pushing him out. DH said the MW almost dropped him as is because he shot out so fast. I didn't see him AT ALL. They cut the cord, got him on the table, resuscitated him (probably because they cut the cord so fast), poked him, prodded him, eye gelled him and god knows what else since the nurses were hovering over the heated table and I couldn't see a damn thing. :nope: Sometimes I look back and think they didn't want me to see what was going on. :cry:Click to expand...

I don't know about you but it's taken me a long time to accept that the past can't be changed and it happened, but the same as you when I think back it feels like yesterday and does upset me. At least we'll know more this time round, so it will be a totally different experience I can only pray! :)


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## indigo_fairy

Guera said:


> I really wanted to delay cord clamping with my last babe, unfortunately I have c-sections, and the Dr. really isnt patient with waiting.
> I wonder if anyone has advice on how to ask for delayed clamping/cutting with a c-section.

I don't see why not, as they can still stitch you up while the baby is connected to the placenta. But I'm not sure, I think it would depend on your surgeon etc... asking can't hurt, and you could explain how important it is to you, and it wouldn't delay them with their job.


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## Bournefree

indigo_fairy said:


> Guera said:
> 
> 
> I really wanted to delay cord clamping with my last babe, unfortunately I have c-sections, and the Dr. really isnt patient with waiting.
> I wonder if anyone has advice on how to ask for delayed clamping/cutting with a c-section.
> 
> I don't see why not, as they can still stitch you up while the baby is connected to the placenta. But I'm not sure, I think it would depend on your surgeon etc... asking can't hurt, and you could explain how important it is to you, and it wouldn't delay them with their job.Click to expand...

I honestly can't see that this is a practical or good idea unfortunately.

My reasons are that like any major surgery, while you are cut open through all the layers of tissue, those open wounds are seeping blood. Local drugs are used to stem the flow of blood to the open faces of tissue, but too much and you restrict the flow of blood so much that the tissue starts to starve.
Also there is a huge risk of infection. Your insides are not used to being outside, and are usually totally sterile.

Theoretically if you waited, ie - left the cord intact, after baby was out of your uterus from your open incision .. the same hormones would start to contract the uterus - There is little time to get a complete placenta out, perform d&v (some don&#8217;t) plus your surgeon ideally should start to do suturing before the uterus becomes too contracted. This is so there is more complete joining of the circular and striated muscles of the uterus, your hernia layer, your stomach muscles, and your skin.

Any benefit to this route is out weighed the complications and risks.. sorry 
Though, I totally agree it is your right to ask.

Or - unless, you are thinking of the surgical removal of the placenta, leaving the cord uncut - so and baby, cord and placenta removed as one? That would be possible in theory, there would be a matter of doing obs on baby not too far from your womb in an op theatre, until babies breathing is established while waiting for the placenta to be detached surgically, after the introduction of drugs to detach (these are similar to the first drug used in a medical abortion, they detach the pregnancy from the uterus, but don't start contractions)

Sorry, I don't think there is much light at the end of this tunnel.
XxX


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## Jenniflower

You just made me think now. Do they not remove the placenta as well when you have a c-section? Or do you pass that naturally through your lady bits like if you had a Vaginal Delivery? For some reason I just assumed they yanked that out of you as well.


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## DolceBella

The placenta comes right out after the baby during a c-section. Baby delivery time and placenta delivery time are usually 1 minute apart. They don't "yank" it really. It's more of a gentle traction on the cord and it pops right out.

Very very gentle traction on the cord 10-15 minutes after a vaginal delivery and the placenta will usually pop right out as well. No injections needed.


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## Bournefree

Jenniflower said:


> You just made me think now. Do they not remove the placenta as well when you have a c-section? Or do you pass that naturally through your lady bits like if you had a Vaginal Delivery? For some reason I just assumed they yanked that out of you as well.

They do remove the placenta with a c-section.
There would be a danger of retained placenta if it was left in the womb after a c-section.. So I doubt that would be something that a surgeon would ever want to do.
What I was trying to say was the you could not have the cord cut during a c-section and theoretically have baby cord and placenta in one piece (as it were), if you wanted to do a lotus. Though I think even this would be a big ask too.
xxx


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## Jenniflower

Ah I get it now. 

I'm still not a fan of cord traction at all though. I've put on my birth plan that if after an hour the Placenta still hasn't come out that I will have the shot without any cord traction. I kinda hope it takes ages for the cord to stop pulsing so I get lots of cuddles without being rushed. :)


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## kiwimama

Can you wait to cut the cord if you have a managed 3rd stage? 
I have a large fibroid and have been advised to have a managed 3rd stage (I did last time as well) to ensure I don't bleed too much, as it is a high risk with a large fibroid. I am happy to do this, as I would rather that then have to be rushed into hospital after baby is born because of bleeding.
So does the cord need to be cut or clamped before they give you the injection or could it be given and the placenta essentially is out but baby is still attached and getting that core blood etc?


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## Mervs Mum

Yes you can delay clamping and have a managed third stage :)


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