# Am I the only one who gets upset?



## Carley

When you see posts or people saying IRL that my baby is viable at 24 weeks and they will be healthy? Is it just me? Because I wish they knew the truth if a baby was born at 24 weeks. Am I over reacting? :cry:


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## Tiffers

:hugs: No I do not think you are overreacting at all!! I agree with you. People do not understand. My husband works in the NICU and he works with the babies that are 24 weeks (and some earlier) and sees the consenquences.


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## Carley

I know what it is like at nicu from a mothers point of view but how about his? I'm curious what the nicu staff think? What does he do in nicu?


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## Pyrrhic

I'm curious as to why these posts exist? Why 24 weeks? The youngest premmie to survive was 21 week and 6 days.


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## Carley

rafwife said:


> I'm curious as to why these posts exist? Why 24 weeks? The youngest premmie to survive was 21 week and 6 days.

People don't stop to wonder what kind of damage that baby will have to live with...


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## jenny873

i was thinking this before when i seen a thread about baby being viable. x


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## Carley

When my son was born at 24 weeks, the nicu specialist stated nearly every baby born before 24 weeks had a major haemorrhage. So that leaves me thinking what would happen to a 21 week old baby? Sometimes doctors need to know when to say no, this isn't fair on the baby.


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## jnall1965

Carley said:


> When you see posts or people saying IRL that my baby is viable at 24 weeks and they will be healthy? Is it just me? Because I wish they knew the truth if a baby was born at 24 weeks. Am I over reacting? :cry:

I went into labour with my daughter at 24 weeks. The consultant sat us down and told us they had an incubator on standby but the chances of her surviving were less than 5%. Luckly they managed to stop it and she was born at 34 weeks, she still ended up in scbu but is now a healthy 13 year old. I remember sitting in the scbu with her looking at all the other babies that were in there who were born at between 24 and 26 weeks they were so ill. She was in there for a week and 6 babies died while we were there thats roughly one a day omg.

I agree with you people dont realise the problems that these tiny babies have.


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## xXx Vamp xXx

I think it's because they've never gone through having a child at 24 weeks sweetheart. I don't think they mean to say it that way, it's maybe just the way they see things from lack of experience? :hug:

I was talking to my mum about your little angel the other day x


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## Carley

jnall1965 said:


> Carley said:
> 
> 
> When you see posts or people saying IRL that my baby is viable at 24 weeks and they will be healthy? Is it just me? Because I wish they knew the truth if a baby was born at 24 weeks. Am I over reacting? :cry:
> 
> I went into labour with my daughter at 24 weeks. The consultant sat us down and told us they had an incubator on standby but the chances of her surviving were less than 5%. Luckly they managed to stop it and she was born at 34 weeks, she still ended up in scbu but is now a healthy 13 year old. I remember sitting in the scbu with her looking at all the other babies that were in there who were born at between 24 and 26 weeks they were so ill. She was in there for a week and 6 babies died while we were there thats roughly one a day omg.
> 
> I agree with you people dont realise the problems that these tiny babies have.Click to expand...

You were lucky they could stop labour, that's fantastic. They tried for me but as you can see we had no luck. We got told everything during labour, I didn't take much in, I was in too much pain. I'm so happy for you that stopped labour until 34 weeks, that's fantastic!!! :hugs: When I was in for 6 days we had two sets of twins die born at 24 & 25 weeks. And 4 babies born at the same time. I just wish people knew what they would face at 24 weeks.


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## Carley

xXx Vamp xXx said:


> I think it's because they've never gone through having a child at 24 weeks sweetheart. I don't think they mean to say it that way, it's maybe just the way they see things from lack of experience? :hug:
> 
> I was talking to my mum about your little angel the other day x

I'm trying to but some seem to get so excited that their baby could be healthy and live a normal life if born at 24 weeks...


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## Samantha

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## ALI

oops did not realise O/H was adding comment here too at same time. Its pretty much what I was going to say. Having premmie at 24 weeks does not necessarily mean a baby may not be completely healthy or only have minor problems.

At the NICU unit our princess was in, we read of a baby born 2004 in the same unit weighing under 1 lb at 14 oz or 400g. The mum went into birth at 22 weeks with severe pre-eclampsyia and because she was 22 weeks the doctors performed an abortion, to save her life. A nurse noticed a short while later the baby was still alive and quickly connected her to oxygen. That baby is now a healthy happy 4 year old with no problems. The article gave us hope.

We recently discovered they also had a website www.lucyblueparker.com


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## Samantha675

When I hit 24 weeks, I felt that at least then my LO would stand a chance IF something were to happen. No matter how slim the chance.


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## Tootsie

IMO I think some of the people who start these topics have gone through so much to get where they are now that IF there was a senario in which their babies had to be born early they are just happy as mentioned that with the current technology being as sophisticated as it is now their little bundle would have a much greater chance of surviving, 

As you have so rightly put though i would not know what would the situation involves unless i had been through it or knew someone who had been through it. I understand that these posts may be upsetting to you and others who know the anguish involved in looking after a very early baby but some mums to be are really just happy they have made it that far into pregnancy without some of the other tragedies that can befall them.

I hope this helps a little as it's coming from someone on the other side of the fence.


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## Samantha

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## TashaAndBump

ALI said:


> oops did not realise O/H was adding comment here too at same time. Its pretty much what I was going to say. Having premmie at 24 weeks does not necessarily mean a baby may not be completely healthy or only have minor problems.
> 
> At the NICU unit our princess was in, we read of a baby born 2004 in the same unit weighing under 1 lb at 14 oz or 400g. The mum went into birth at 22 weeks with severe pre-eclampsyia and because she was 22 weeks the doctors performed an abortion, to save her life. A nurse noticed a short while later the baby was still alive and quickly connected her to oxygen. That baby is now a healthy happy 4 year old with no problems. The article gave us hope.
> 
> We recently discovered they also had a website www.lucyblueparker.com

Wow what an incredible, inspirational story! And what an amazing little girl.

I'm so sorry you're having a hard time at the moment. I know that it must be very difficult for you as you approach the gestation at which you had and lost your little boy :( 

If it will help you to understand a little more why people go on and on about their babies being 'viable' now, I think I can give a little insight into that: I remember getting very excited at my baby being viable at 24 weeks, because it meant that having a baby was that little bit more 'certain' somehow - I knew there was a chance that IF I gave birth, now there was a CHANCE, no matter how slim, or no matter what we would face along the way, that my baby could at least survive. That is not at all to say that I imagined that I could give birth to perfectly healthy baby at that point and not face the problems mentioned above.

Having had a baby in SCBU (for illness rather than prematurity), and watching other women going through having very early babies while Anna was in the high dependency nursery, I'll admit that my understanding of what these babies actually go through is much, MUCH fuller now. I could never have even *imagined* the trauma, or troubles these babies (and their parents) faced before. But that is down just to previous ignorance, and lack of understanding - I just didn't know. 

I'm sure that if anyone knew how much it would upset you (or other women who have been through the same) to talk about 'viability' so lightly, they wouldn't splash it around as much. But as I said earlier, I don't think they mean to suggest or assume that very premature babies have an easy time of it; they are probably just excited to know that their baby now stands a chance, even if born at that point? I think even having seen the babies in SCBU going through everything that comes with being born so early, I would still be excited in my next pregnancy to hit the gestation where I know my baby could survive - that's not to say I'd want my baby there and then of course! I'd obviously still hope and wish and pray that my pregnancy and baby are healthy and full-term.

I hope this makes you feel a bit better - in helping you understand where we are coming from when we say, "Yay, 24 weeks - baby is viable / baby could survive if born now! :happydance:".

Best of luck for the future, :hugs: x


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## brownhairedmom

I think Tasha put it very well. I think that once you get to that point that there is at least a chance, no matter how slim that chance may be. 

Also, people don't understand, especially not first time moms. I've got to say that I have absolutely no idea how traumatic that is for people. I don't think anyone can understand fully until they're in a situation, but that goes for every situation.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that :hugs:


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## Mamafy

:hugs: carley. I think no-one can understand unless they've been through this. Joe was born at 28 weeks and in the words of the team "you can get a very good healthy 28 weeker and a very poor 28 weeker, and joe is the very poor 28 weeker"

2 1/2 years on the road has been tough, and we nearly/did lose him several times including when he was 8 weeks old having been home 2 days where I had to ressusitate him. He has had several febrile convulsions when he gets high temps and hospitilised humourous times for pneumonia due to the condition his lungs are in.

He has played 'catch-up' on his development too, everything was running at least 3-6 months late but he has reached all milestones.

He has chronic lung disease and has a dent in his ribcage which makes him gasp when he runs about. The journey has been tough and I think no-one can fully understand the emotions.

Joe was one of the 'lucky' ones though that although he has had problems and still has problems he pulled through.

I am so sorry Carley your little son wasnt one of the 'lucky' ones and I really hope you get to term this time:hugs::hug::hugs:

xoxoxoxo
xoxoxoox


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## Hollys_Twinny

I know I might be wrong but, When people are praising the fact that Lo reaches 24 weeks theres a chance baby can survive and that in its self makes them happy, I think they know baby will still need alot of help and chances of survival are slim, but I dont think they mean it in a shallow way as in " I want my baby out now as he/she is viable".


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## Pyrrhic

x-mum-2-b-x said:


> I know I might be wrong but, When people are praising the fact that Lo reaches 24 weeks theres a chance baby can survive and that in its self makes them happy,

This is what I don't understand. On the Bliss website, they state that babies _can_ survive from 22 weeks. So why do people choose 24 weeks to post that their baby is 'viable'? Why 24 weeks?


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## Mamafy

rafwife said:


> x-mum-2-b-x said:
> 
> 
> I know I might be wrong but, When people are praising the fact that Lo reaches 24 weeks theres a chance baby can survive and that in its self makes them happy,
> 
> This is what I don't understand. On the Bliss website, they state that babies _can_ survive from 22 weeks. So why do people choose 24 weeks to post that their baby is 'viable'? Why 24 weeks?Click to expand...

I think 24 weeks is the legal requirement for dr's to resusitate a baby and ventilate etc. As far as I know that they legally dont have to resusitate a baby born before then if it has shown no signs of life :(

It could all tie in with the abortion limit for 24 weeks as well but I'm not sure of this.


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## ALI

Mamafy is right. 24 weeks is the legal abortion limit in all of the UK except Northern Ireland so any baby born under 24 weeks is officially classed as stillborn and Doctors are not legally obliged to try and keep them alive.

There have been cases of babies born at 22 weeks being left for several hours (because in the "eyes of the law" they are legally not considered viable and are expected to die. They were not even put in an incubator, and were only eventually put on oyygen because they were still alive, several hours later.

I have read about 2 in particular, both of whom are now healthy normal children.


The 24 week limit definitely needs to be lowered !


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## sam's mum

ALI said:


> There have been cases of babies born at 22 weeks being left for several hours (because in the "eyes of the law" they are legally not considered viable and are expected to die. They were not even put in an incubator, and were only eventually put on oyygen because they were still alive, several hours later.
> 
> I have read about 2 in particular, both of whom are now healthy normal children.

That is so sad :( It should only take it happening once for them to at least ensure that a baby who shows signs of life is given a chance. They say that dating scans are accurate to +/- 3 days (and less accurate the later they are done), so there should be some flexibility in the law too.


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## o0oCharlieo0o

i dont think people post as if they are saying 'yay my baby is 24 weeks it will live healthy' its more that 24 weeks is the legal viable age and before that hospitals can refuse to treat your baby, whereas when they reach the viable age doctors will try everything in there power to keep your baby alive, when i was pregnant with brendan and i was excited to reach 24 weeks i didnt for one second think oh this is ok if my babies born hell be fine, i knew he wouldnt be but i knew there was a small chance he could survive if born that early and that is a ray of hope for some, iv never had to go through this thankfully it must be so traumatic and terrifying and i really feel for people who have had to go through such a terrible time.


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## ALI

o0oCharlieo0o said:


> i dont think people post as if they are saying 'yay my baby is 24 weeks it will live healthy' its more that 24 weeks is the legal viable age and before that hospitals can refuse to treat your baby, whereas when they reach the viable age doctors will try everything in there power to keep your baby alive, iv never had to go through this thankfully it must be so traumatic and terrifying and i really feel for people who have had to go through such a terrible time.

Hiya I had to reply to this. Any baby born premature MAY face mental/physical disability and you wont know the full picture until they are 4 or 5 years old. It Is was an emotional rollercoaster last year for us, as it is for every parent of a premmie and having one born at 24 weeks was both traumatic, stressful, and the hardest worst thing we have ever faced, which we would not wish on anyone. Staying positive when you are faced with the constant worry, firstly over whether your baby may survive, and secondly whether she may be so disabled she may not even know you, is not easy.
My point was that being born at 22/24 weeks a baby can still be healthy

She is now a year old with no major problems, and we know we have a few years before we know the full picture. She has hearing loss and has hearing aids but it is no worse than me having to wear contact lenses, but we are just thankful for what we have.

But you always have to stay positive, or you will go crazy, and not listen to statistics as the doctors always give you the worst scenario. This is incredibly hard when, week after week, you take one step forward and two back. It did not help my only seeing her at weekends , being 120 mile round trip for 9 weeks, and sitting at my desk being told she may not survive.
But a year on we have a lovely girl, with only minor issues so to anyone starting our journey last year, please be positive and all or prayers are with you.

anyway sorry for rambling and I wish other dads would come on here as it should be a parents site. I sit at work all day and cannot wait to come home and feed and bathe our Princess, I realise being at work is easy compared to my O/H looking after our girl all day.


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## o0oCharlieo0o

i wasnt saying babies cant survive at 22 weeks i know full well they can my mum friends daughter was born at 23 weeks and she has survived, she has cerebal palsy (sp?) though, i was just sayin people dont post about there viable baby because they think there baby will be fine but tiny, they post as they are glad that doctors have to help, my SIL thought she was going into labour at 22weeks and the doctors told her if the baby was born they wouldnt try to help it, thankfully she wasnt in labour! i can only imagine how hard it must be for people to go through all this as iv never had to go through this, but i just wanted to get across that i never have thought that because my baby becomes viable at 24 weeks that it will be perfectly healthy i know full well it wouldnt be.


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## TashaAndBump

ALI said:


> anyway sorry for rambling and I wish other dads would come on here as it should be a parents site. I sit at work all day and cannot wait to come home and feed and bathe our Princess, I realise being at work is easy compared to my O/H looking after our girl all day.

My husband's a member! He doesn't post much, but I know he has a good read of everything going on... But you're right, it would be lovely to see more daddy's around here!


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## ALI

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## leedsforever

I think like others have said... instead of celebrating the fact they think baby will be healthy if born now but the fact that its another mini-milestone!




ALI said:


> Mamafy is right. 24 weeks is the legal abortion limit in all of the UK except Northern Ireland so any baby born under 24 weeks is officially classed as stillborn and Doctors are not legally obliged to try and keep them alive.

I was under the impression that before 24 weeks its still considered as a miscarriage and its not until after the 24 weeks that the baby is considered as a stillborn!! Thats why at 24 weeks its considered to be a baby rather than a foetus.

Def agree abortion limit should be lowered and more should be done to save babies before this date! However the youngest baby to survive is a gestation of 21 weeks!!


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## sam's mum

leedsforever said:


> I was under the impression that before 24 weeks its still considered as a miscarriage and its not until after the 24 weeks that the baby is considered as a stillborn!! Thats why at 24 weeks its considered to be a baby rather than a foetus.

I think that's right 

and I do understand why you'd be upset by it Carley :hugs: I agree with Kerry that people think of it as just another milestone reached though x


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## Blob

I kinda thought the way Leeds did, that its a milestone, i dont think people are thinking that everything is now going to be ok. I'm sure if they knew that they were offending others who had been through this they would think twice about what they are saying. But like everyone who is pregnant you think of milestones? I'm so sorry that you had to go through this and i hope that your babies are doing well now :hugs:


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## Mummy2Many

I'm on the fence with this.

I've lost twins born at 25 weeks. They were with me for 2 & 4 weeks. On the other hand, 4 years later I gave birth to my little girl Frankie also at 25 weeks. She has just celebrated her 2nd birthday and is absolutely perfect.

Babies born early can have lots of problems, but they can also pull through and be completely fine, even if they have a very tough start. I'd like to think that if I went into labour any time soon, they would at least try to give my baby a chance.

Of course if someone goes into labour at 24/25 weeks and there's nothing that can be done except delivering the baby, they are facing an awful ordeal ahead of them. But it doesn't have to end in a tragedy. Sadly sometimes it does, but just as often, these babies get through it and grow up to be completely fine and normal individuals. The survival rate of babies born at such a stage is now well over 60%.


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## TashaAndBump

ALI said:


> .

You always were a man of many words, Ali


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## Hoping

I must confess, I think I am one of those who posted a "yay baby is viable thread at 24 weeks".

But I in no way meant to offend or upset anyone - I realise perfectly that each week that baby remains inside is important, that if baby is born at 24 weeks, they might not survive/may have lots of problems/need so much care etc. Like others have said, you are told in all the books that 24 weeks is when the pregnancy is legally recognised (i.e. if baby is born, the doctors have to try and help it etc). It is a milestone that gives some hope that wasn't there before.

I am sorry if posting that upset you, I'm sorry for what you have been through.


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## Carley

Hoping said:


> I must confess, I think I am one of those who posted a "yay baby is viable thread at 24 weeks".
> 
> But I in no way meant to offend or upset anyone - I realise perfectly that each week that baby remains inside is important, that if baby is born at 24 weeks, they might not survive/may have lots of problems/need so much care etc. Like others have said, you are told in all the books that 24 weeks is when the pregnancy is legally recognised (i.e. if baby is born, the doctors have to try and help it etc). It is a milestone that gives some hope that wasn't there before.
> 
> I am sorry if posting that upset you, I'm sorry for what you have been through.


Oh hunny, you didn't upset me, just something someone else said did upset me. :hugs:


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## Sarah+Ellen

i started having probs at 22 weeks and was told that the baby would not be'viable' till 24 weeks so i would talk to my bump every day and beg her to hold on until 24 weeks, i even wrote her a letter teling her i loved her.
She listened to me and was born at 24 weeks exactly. We had a traumatic experiance where we nearly lost her a few times but no worse than anyone else here has gone through.
SHe is doing ok now, struggle to put weight on her and she was a late talker (only been talking a couple of weeks now and is 2 1/2) but i know we are extremely lucky.
When people say that its viable now i try and remember that feeling of desperation for her to get to that gestation but more often than not i get upset that they are uncomfortable or they want it out. I have been in tears more than once and have been guilty of avoiding freinds from 20 weeks till the baby is born.


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## biteable

Hoping said:


> I must confess, I think I am one of those who posted a "yay baby is viable thread at 24 weeks".
> 
> But I in no way meant to offend or upset anyone - I realise perfectly that each week that baby remains inside is important, that if baby is born at 24 weeks, they might not survive/may have lots of problems/need so much care etc. Like others have said, you are told in all the books that 24 weeks is when the pregnancy is legally recognised (i.e. if baby is born, the doctors have to try and help it etc). It is a milestone that gives some hope that wasn't there before.
> 
> I am sorry if posting that upset you, I'm sorry for what you have been through.

I totaly agree with hoping,i posted a thread about baby being viable to, to me its another milestone and i hope and pray my l/o doesnt make a sudden appearance til alot nearer his due date.Its sad to say alot of us dont realise what difficultys you girls who have birthed early have faced and im truly sorry if mine or anyone elses posts have offended or upset any1 they definetly werent ment to.My heart goes out to any1 who has faced these diffucult times xx


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## Samantha

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## karenshaz

Hi
I just wanted to say that I think it's a very important milestone, well it was for me to help combat the fear that I could still lose my babies.
I couldn't wait for 28 weeks (with twins my consultant said this was an important milestone).
So at 28 weeks I was celebrating, and at 28+3 was admitted into hospital with pre-eclampsia.
My happiness then went to fear. I fink it's important as it helps you get along but if the worse happens then it quickly changes to an annoyance (sorry probably not strong enough a word).
Btw babies happy 4month olds now, born at 30+2, 2lb6oz & 3lb11oz

Karen


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## charveyron

My sister had 3 premies - her first was 34 weeks and her 2nd and 3rd (twins) were at 32 weeks, and although they wern't as early as 24 weeks they wern't without their problems, to see a little helpless baby on a ventilator covered in tubes is not nice, even now her DS is 4 and her twins are 2 and they are still carrying the scars, from all the needles and canulators etc, they will do for the rest of their lives. People should think before they speak, the last few weeks of pregnancy ARE tough, theres no denying it, but they're nowhere near as tough as going backwards and forwards to SCBU and seeing your LO suffer!! Sorry rant over - but an answer to your question, Yes it does upset me!!!! :hugs:


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## Samantha

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## Carley

I have the right to get upset, I didn't make a big deal out of it did? I just wanted to express how I felt. Maybe if you lost a baby at 24 weeks, your opinions would be different.


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## Samantha

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## Mamafy

why did you remove your posts samantha? :confused: If a person stands by what they say there is no need to do this :confused:

Ok Carley has every right to be upset about some things that were said. Now the people that say its great I've got to 24 weeks 26 weeks 28 weeks 30 weeks, they really dont know about the limited number of people who can say well actually things might not be ok and we do get cross.

Lets face it until you hold your baby in your arms there are no guarantees:cry:

I think we should be a little more sensitive in our postings. I think it is ok to say I am so glad my baby has made it to 24 weeks, my baby _may_ have a chance now. Certain numbers and gestations in pregnancies give no guarantees that you have a healthy baby at the end of it and it is only people that have went through Stillbirth and having babies very premature that can TOTALLY understand that.


I'm sorry if this post has offended anyone but I kinda felt somethings had to be said and I really think we should just give a Carley a break here when she is in a crucial part of her present pregnancy.


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## Hollys_Twinny

I never raed samanthas post..! I do understand how babies born at 24 weeks are very ill. But liek kerry said I dont think people mean just beacause their baby is viable they think all will be ok..! but 4 most of us its a milestone..! and take comfort in the fact that if they did go into premature labour that its possible for their LO to survive..! Especially if they've had miscarriage's in the past..! its a huge relief for them..! Of course you have the right to get annoyed at people..but at the same time they also have the right to be happy about whatever they want..!


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## leedsforever

Why you delete samantha??

Your last comment shocked me..."Im getting bored of this now" but still....!! 

Mamafy correct me if Im wrong but Ive never read a post that has said "yippe Im 24 weeks today.... if my baby was born today then they would live"!!! 
The majority of posts have been more along the lines of "my baby is viable in the eyes of the law" "my baby is a baby"!!! 
I would hope that any mum to be would not expect a baby born at 24 weeks to be born without worry and risk! If so these people really need educated!

Some interesting facts in my mag :)
babies born at 23 weeks have a 17% chance of survival
babies born at 24 weeks have a 39% chance of survival
babies born at 25 weeks have a 50% chance of survival

I thought this was interesting as it just shows how much an extra week can make!! :)


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## Mamafy

I dont know exactly what comment upset Carley but I still think she has a valid right to be upset because she has lost a baby at 24 weeks :confused: Lets face it not every single person on the forum is tactful, ok if you've never experienced stillbirth or given birth to a preterm baby who dies or you have a baby prematurely that needs/and still needs help then you have absolutely no reason to even think this way.

But I think sometimes the keyboard thinks before the head has got in gear.

This is something I feel very strongly about as I have had all preterm births ranging from 28 weeks to 35 weeks and I also gave birth to my son at 14 weeks gestation as well after a 9 hour labour.

I really am sorry for speaking about you Carley when you arent present but I still cant understand why people just cant say/think 'well you know this lady has had alot to deal with, we should maybe think before we get carried away'. I have back-read some 'viable' threads and yes leeds some girls are very aware that their baby is in a great place and _can_ survive and that is great :) No-one is saying that is wrong at all but yes there have been posts where it was said 'oh yes I'm 24 weeks, my baby will survive'. This will of course upset a mum who has given birth at 24 weeks and watched their baby die:cry:

In the same way if someone said 80% of babies born at 28 weeks live, 20% of babies didnt :( and with the 80% that do live no-one, and I mean no-one will ever know what it is like to watch your baby on a ventilator on morphine and with every vein in their body jabbed with needles.

I am sorry if my opinions offend but maybe you just have to have experienced this kinda thing to understand.


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## leedsforever

Mamafy said:


> I dont know exactly what comment upset Carley but I still think she has a valid right to be upset because she has lost a baby at 24 weeks :confused:

Oh most definetly!! And Im sorry Carley if my post came across in a way that said otherwise!!

Def agree people can be less tactful but like you said it boils down to experience and knowledge!! 

Much love goes out to anyone who has had to deal with any type of premature birth :hugs:


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## xXx Vamp xXx

Mamafy said:


> I really am sorry for speaking about you Carley when you arent present but I still cant understand why people just cant say/think 'well you know this lady has had alot to deal with, we should maybe think before we get carried away'. I have back-read some 'viable' threads and yes leeds some girls are very aware that their baby is in a great place and _can_ survive and that is great :) No-one is saying that is wrong at all but yes there have been posts where it was said 'oh yes I'm 24 weeks, my baby will survive'. This will of course upset a mum who has given birth at 24 weeks and watched their baby die:cry:

I really think you've hit the nail on the head there babes, some people should think about it first. I'm quite close with Carley anyways, but what she said in this was that some of the threads upset her, not that no-one should ever make them or that they all upset her. There's a very big difference in some of the ways the viable threads are posted. At the end of the day if you go and read most of the "24 weeks and viable" threads you will see she is one of the ones congratulating people on them milestones (as I noticed these last few days), and I think that says a lot about the loving character she is. After her experiences a lot of other peoples (unfortunately), others could and should be a bit more understanding as to why it may upset her.


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## charliesam

hi -i am due with my first baby in 3 weeks, i could never imagine giving birth at 24 weeks, must be so scary, and i think when people who dont know what they are talking about say it would all b ok ifthey were born at 24w are all just wishfull thinking- my midwife told me at 24 weeks that my pregnancy was viable, but looking at the statistics and all the fear involved in premature birth its easier not to think of the worst. but we all know what the abortion limit is, so everything is contradicting xx dont think anyone means any harm x


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## wilbrabeany

I've just read this post..after posting a thread to celebrate reaching the 24 week milestone. I dont think there is anything wrong with celebrating reaching a milestone in your pregnancy. When you have lost a baby getting to 24 weeks is as significant a milestone as ever. I lost my baby at 20 weeks and my treatment in hospital was awful because my baby was not recognised as a baby as she had not reached 24 weeks. therefore she got not help and was left to dye after a 20 min struggle in a pan. I'm under no illusions that having a baby at 24 weeks or any premature baby is going to be ok, but i defence of the girls who celebrate the milestone, its just that a celebration of reaching a point when your egg can be called a baby. Stupid i know but we do celebrate lots of stupid things. I guess it just breaks a long 9 months now into blocks that you can aim for. Even my consultant has said that now i'm 24 weeks she wants me to relax(thats a joke!!) and enjoy the pregnancy and reduced my weekly appointments to monthly.

So i hope this doesn't offend anyone but i think most of the ladies who celebrate 24 weeks are not thinking oh great easy ride now and my baby will be ok if its born, more right thats another milestone out way, i'm pleased with myself for getting this far and making this baby and i want to share it with my friends on bnb


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## mrscookie

wilbrabeany said:


> I've just read this post..after posting a thread to celebrate reaching the 24 week milestone. I dont think there is anything wrong with celebrating reaching a milestone in your pregnancy. When you have lost a baby getting to 24 weeks is as significant a milestone as ever. I lost my baby at 20 weeks and my treatment in hospital was awful because my baby was not recognised as a baby as she had not reached 24 weeks. therefore she got not help and was left to dye after a 20 min struggle in a pan. I'm under no illusions that having a baby at 24 weeks or any premature baby is going to be ok, but i defence of the girls who celebrate the milestone, its just that a celebration of reaching a point when your egg can be called a baby. Stupid i know but we do celebrate lots of stupid things. I guess it just breaks a long 9 months now into blocks that you can aim for. Even my consultant has said that now i'm 24 weeks she wants me to relax(thats a joke!!) and enjoy the pregnancy and reduced my weekly appointments to monthly.
> 
> So i hope this doesn't offend anyone but i think most of the ladies who celebrate 24 weeks are not thinking oh great easy ride now and my baby will be ok if its born, more right thats another milestone out way, i'm pleased with myself for getting this far and making this baby and i want to share it with my friends on bnb

 
I agree honey...

I celebrated my 12 week milestone, it didn't mean I wanted my baby out at that point? There is no shame that people are happy that there ''fetus'' is now a viable baby, and are happy to celebrate this.
My first milestone was 9 weeks (scan) then 12 weeks, my next one is 15 weeks, then it will be 20 (scan) then 24 as baby will be classed as a baby and not a fetus, then 30 weeks, and then 40.
:hug::hug::hug:


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## GemGems

I didn't post a "viable" thread at 24 weeks. Dont get me wrong, i'm very happy that i've reached this far after a previous loss, but i just dont feel that i can breathe a sigh of relief until my girl is actually out of my body and i can see that she is healthy and ok. But thats just my own personal feelings on the matter. I think if you want to celebrate this milestone, then go for it! :) I've learnt alot about prem babies from reading this thread and i just find it so overwhelming that some can actually survive when born at such an early stage. To those ladies who have experienced the loss of their prem baby, i can offer nothing but sympathy and :hugs: I haven't got a clue what you've been through and how you managed but i admire you. All i know is, i'm sure none of the ladies on B&B meant any harm or offence. We're all such a lovely bunch!! :)


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## Mamafy

GemGems said:


> I didn't post a "viable" thread at 24 weeks. Dont get me wrong, i'm very happy that i've reached this far after a previous loss, but i just dont feel that i can breathe a sigh of relief until my girl is actually out of my body and i can see that she is healthy and ok. But thats just my own personal feelings on the matter. I think if you want to celebrate this milestone, then go for it! :) I've learnt alot about prem babies from reading this thread and i just find it so overwhelming that some can actually survive when born at such an early stage. To those ladies who have experienced the loss of their prem baby, i can offer nothing but sympathy and :hugs: I haven't got a clue what you've been through and how you managed but i admire you. All i know is, i'm sure none of the ladies on B&B meant any harm or offence. We're all such a lovely bunch!! :)

Very well said Gemma


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## cheryl

I hope i didn't upset you carley, but I posted because it was a huge milestone for me to reach and all the way through my pregnancy I have been terrified that I will loose my baby. At 24 weeks there is a chance of survival. Just that small chance was a big thing for me. My son was born at 33 weeks and I know its not as early but he was still poorly and needed to spend 4 weeks in special care. I wouldn't want another preemie baby and I know what could happen, there was a baby in there that was born at 24 weeks and was very poorly. 
It was just a huge milestone to reach. There is no way I would have wanted to upset anyone. My LO is now a baby. I can call him a baby. I am still terrified of him being born early and i will be til I hold him in my arms. But reaching that point in my pregnancy was huge for me. As I am sure it is for alot of people. I am terrified of him being born at 33 weeks the same as my son never mind 24 weeks.
I did alot of research on prem babies for college, so I do know.
I admire you for what you have been through hun.
Luv Cheryl xxx


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## Aidan's Mummy

i dont think the ladies meant to upset anyone. the way i see it is they have had 24 weeks of worrying and fretting about their lil one. they arnt saying that if baby is born at 24 weeks everything will be fine they are celebrating the fact that their little one will at least have a CHANCE and the docters will try everything they can to help a baby born at 24 weeks. they dont think everything will be wonderful and ok they know that a baby born at 24 weeks will be very poorly they just want to celebrate the fact their little one has a chance

:hug:
xx


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## xXx Vamp xXx

See I think this is where this thread is getting misinterpreted. 



> When you see posts or people saying IRL that my baby is viable at 24 weeks and they will be healthy?

The key word in that sentence is WILL BE healthy. Carley didn't say at all that people who make 24 week viable yey baby has a chance posts upset her at all. It's the people who put it in a way that their baby will be born alive and well and will make it and have no problems etc that upset her. And after what she has been through, along with a lot of other people on this board / in this world :cry: I can understand that. I really do not think it meant the people who are celebrating that their baby has a chance. Also I think the post below outlines that it was a random comment someone made, rather that someone genuinely reaching that milestone and thinking yey my baby has a chance that was the problem.



Carley said:


> Hoping said:
> 
> 
> I must confess, I think I am one of those who posted a "yay baby is viable thread at 24 weeks".
> 
> But I in no way meant to offend or upset anyone - I realise perfectly that each week that baby remains inside is important, that if baby is born at 24 weeks, they might not survive/may have lots of problems/need so much care etc. Like others have said, you are told in all the books that 24 weeks is when the pregnancy is legally recognised (i.e. if baby is born, the doctors have to try and help it etc). It is a milestone that gives some hope that wasn't there before.
> 
> I am sorry if posting that upset you, I'm sorry for what you have been through.
> 
> 
> Oh hunny, you didn't upset me, just something someone else said did upset me. :hugs:Click to expand...

Also, there was a thread on this forum last week I think it was, that someone's sister in law was going to try and induce labour at 24 weeks? Seeing something like that after what these parents have been through must be upsetting. Also, the original post said IRL... in real life. There are people out there I know that have made comments like "I'm 24 weeks baby will live now" and as much as if anything ever happened I would hope and pray and wish for that to always be the case, it isn't in 100% of cases. 

I think what was wrote was a personal opinion after a very deeply emotional personal experience and it was never intended to hurt or upset people.

:hug::hug::hug::hug:


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## PeanutBean

I've posted in the thread in 2nd tri before reading through this thread (sorry, didn't have time to look for it - thanks Vamp). I guess a couple of things:

First, I have every sympathy with anyone that loses a baby at whatever stage of their pregnancy or after birth, though I appreciate that the later a baby is lost, especially if after birth, the more distressing it is. And also with those who struggle with a premature baby waiting to see how things will turn out. I doubt that anyone would lack sympathy for people who go through it. 

Second, If some people have posted 'hooray my baby is healthy' then they are probably just ignorant and though that must be upsetting when you've experienced otherwise my time on BnB has shown me that many people are ignorant about many things in pregnancy, some of them more important/serious than others. But I doubt anyone would mean to upset anyone else in celebrating their own personal milestones. I'd like to add that in the thread about someone's SIL saying they wanted to try and have the baby early (as if it was a matter of choice) everyone leaped on the notion and was horrified that someone would even contemplate such a notion.

I think BnB is full of ladies (and some men!) who are struggling through their own difficulties in pregnancy, perhaps because of past losses, or maybe because of scares during pregnancy. I think this is what makes BnB so rich and makes the vast majority of its members so supportive of others. However, BnB is still an internet forum where communication is the written word and can be interpreted differently. We can each only go so far in trying to be sensitive to others or we might never post anything at all. There are plenty of things in my past that I've chosen not to mention to anyone on BnB that will mean I might take offence to the way someone has chosen to put something across, and I mean things more of opinion rather than celebration, but because I don't want to get into those things I don't respond and keep it to myself. I don't mean that Carley shouldn't have started this thread or be feeling this way or anything like that, we each feel what we feel and choose to make it public on BnB or not. I guess what I'm saying is almost anything might upset someone but it's up to us how we choose to take it and what we choose to post in public.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't sound aggressive as I certainly don't mean it that way!


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## BeckyBoo

I went into pre-term labour at 26 weeks. I had to look at the view that my baby was 'viable' to survive, that did not mean that I would be happy about it being born then, I was out of my mind with worry. But they stopped the labour.

I celebrated the 24 land mark that if my baby was to appear for whatever reason, she would stand a chance of survival.

I don't think it's wrong for people celebrating landmarks, just the same as people who have had countless MC's before, I imagine each landmark to them in pregnancy is a tressure. So it gives no one the right to upset them.


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## Uvlollypop

hey carley, hugs


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## ryder

There are many things that I read on here which upset me... Mainly because I work in a hospital with a labour ward and PED's ward so I have got to witness some of the ridiculous things babies and children have had to go through... and yes, alot of times it is because of parental stupidity... Which is one beef I have with people taking things they read online so seriously and thinking they know everything because they read this statistic or that, or they self-diagnosed their child based on something they read. 

These people can never imagine how heartbreaking it is to see these children sick in the hospital or to see a baby in the morgue. Babies in our hospital get an actual box (rather then stetcher) to wait in the morgue in, so you always know when you see a box that it is a baby. 

I never posted a viable at 24ws... I don't think I could honestly say I was relieved, because I know if my baby WAS born then, that it would have been a nightmare and the chance of survival isn't great... 

Though there are some babies who survive and do fine later... It is a rough first few years for them. 

Every day I worry and am paranoid that something bad could happen, and until that baby is born and in my arms I wont stop.


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## Carley

Right now for me I'm personally taking week by week. I'm counting down to 24 weeks, which is 3 weeks away for me. I'm going to celebrate, not because she may be viable but because it's my milestone, that I've so far made it further then I did with Jacob. From that point I'm taking week by week. Because in my head 25/26/27/28etc weeks is better then 24 weeks. If I can make it to 30 weeks fantastic, 32 weeks even better I shouldn't need NICU, 37 weeks bloody GREAT!


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## leedsforever

I agree Carley when i was at that stage I was just so happy to keep cooking my LO each day!! 

The only milestone I was really relieved to reach was 12 weeks!! I was so nervous in my first 12 weeks, I was adamant I was going to suffer a m/c! I dont know why cos I have never suffered one before but I really had it in my head that it was going to be snapped away from me!

Ryder I agree I wont stop worrying until I hold her in my arms.... and I bet then the worry wont even stop!!


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## xXx Vamp xXx

Carley said:


> Right now for me I'm personally taking week by week. I'm counting down to 24 weeks, which is 3 weeks away for me. I'm going to celebrate, not because she may be viable but because it's my milestone, that I've so far made it further then I did with Jacob. From that point I'm taking week by week. Because in my head 25/26/27/28etc weeks is better then 24 weeks. If I can make it to 30 weeks fantastic, 32 weeks even better I shouldn't need NICU, 37 weeks bloody GREAT!

:hug:


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## mrscookie

group hug everyone :)
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## fein&waiting

I posted that i'd already made it to that point but not as yay my baby is viable post, just that i'd already hit the milestone of that many weeks. Reading all the stories of ppl giving birth early is one of my biggest fears and i'm always hoping (praying) that i'll get through the whole pregnancy with both of us healthy. I don't know if it's like that for everyone who posts their 24 week milestone, but that's how it was for me. It was the mere concept that i'm practically 6 months preggo and only another 3 and half to go! and i have no prior experience except for 2 chem preggies. I'm sure there are a fair few posters who have looked at it in the way i do


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## Aidan's Mummy

yer i agree with melbo :hugs: to everyone
xx


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## Dragonfly

I take the viable at 24 weeks with a pinch of salt and hope it dosnt decide to come then as to be honest i dont think many survive as i havnt heard of any at 24 weeks? I want mine to stay in there 10 more weeks at least to be cooked right.


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## keelykat

I was petrified untill the moment i held my baby in my arms and saw him, but i did celebrate in my head certain milestones ie the 12 week mark, and much later after id had the 20 week scan. Only because i was getting closer to my baby actually being recognised as a baby and would have some hope of survival-i wouldnt have wanted my baby born so early. I remember people wishing their baby would arrive at say 38 weeks for example even that was too early for me i was so scared of something going wrong. 

After seeing my SIL going through a few miscarriages, one baby of which she lost quite late and had to give bith to him and got to hold him etc... i couldnt totally relax untill my baby was here safe and well. I didnt once take for granted that my baby was developing well inside me. Each scan id be relieved but still nervous. 

My SIL had her first baby early, and she was tiny-we call her a miracle baby as she had so many losses afterwards and had to have an operation/now cant have any more. (long story). She's now 14, and doing well. 

I can understand you being upset-loosing a baby at any stage of the pregnancy is horrible/devastating etc. 

keely.

ps-i still think every baby is a miracle and a gift to be cherished.


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## isil

I don't think Carley has posted since the middle of september....is there any news on her? or am I wrong?


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## TashaAndBump

I think she is fine but she chose to leave bnb for personal reasons x


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## ALI

Dragonfly said:


> I take the viable at 24 weeks with a pinch of salt and hope it dosnt decide to come then as to be honest i dont think many survive as i havnt heard of any at 24 weeks? I want mine to stay in there 10 more weeks at least to be cooked right.

Firstly , I wish Carley all the best.

Secondly, I am sorry if i am rude but I think you should do some research first before making such a comment on this site , i find it incredible that so many people are so ignorant of just how many babies are born and survive at 24 weeks. I am sorry if I sound rude but I found your comments quite patronising and to be honest a little bit offensive.

The same ignorance resulted in the majority of Mp's voting against lowering the abortion limit earlier this year as they said "babies are unlikely to survive at 24 weeks or lower" One confidently stated that their lungs are not developed enough to live. Well actually they are given a steroid injection which boosts the lung development so that is complete nonsense.

Our 24 weeker was born in Portsmouth and a a baby was born in the same unit at 21 weeks 6 days, weighing 14 ounces. She was left to die, being under 24 weeks, but after a few hours , a nurse noticed she was still breathing and they put her on oxygen and she has just celebrated her 4th birthday and is a perfectly healthy 4 year old. https://www.lucyblueparker.com/

Anyone with a baby born prematurely needs as much support as possible and your negative and ignorant comments do not help. Our little one may not have been "cooked right" as you say and it really does hurt for both of us that we missed out on so much , never feeling a bump or baby kicking , experiencing ante natal classes or normal term birth but we love our 24 weeker to bits whatever she may face, so please think twice before making generalisations like that again.


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## Mamafy

^^^^^^

ditto + :hugs: + more hugs for Charlotte :hugs:


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## Aidan's Mummy

Dragonfly said:


> I take the viable at 24 weeks with a pinch of salt and hope it dosnt decide to come then as to be honest i dont think many survive as i havnt heard of any at 24 weeks? I want mine to stay in there 10 more weeks at least to be cooked right.

Quite a few babies survive at 24 weeks and sadly quite a few die aswell But take Mummy2manys lil princess isabelle for example she was born at 24 weeks she was due in december. and she was such a little fighter. Now she is at home with her family and is a beautiful, thriving baby just like any other baby. 
xx:hug:


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## porkpie1981

:hugs: to all the ladies that had a baby early in their pregnancy. I have never and hope not to . I have to say that i dont really go into many other threads than 2nd tri at the mo. I was thinking that when i reached 24 weeks i would post a thread like that . I also did it when i reached 12 weeks. I have to say my last pregnancy reached 12 weeks and i went for my 1st scan to find out there was just a sac and no baby (blighted ovum) So this time even tho i did a :happydance: post saying i was 12 i knew that ur never out of the woods till you have a healthy baby in ur arms. This pregnancy ive had heavy bleeding and actually thought my waters had broke due to heavy watery bleeding. I knew at that early stage that there was no chance that my baby would be ok so i think just the fact that i can get to 24 weeks , wont make me relax but as others have said at least have hope. I in no way want to have a baby at 24 weeks ( i want to keep the lo safe for as long as possible). My mum is blind due to being born 6 weeks early and tho it was nearly 60 yrs ago and medicine wasnt as advanced, it just shows even 6 weeks early can be damaging


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## Hevz

Carley said:


> When you see posts or people saying IRL that my baby is viable at 24 weeks and they will be healthy? Is it just me? Because I wish they knew the truth if a baby was born at 24 weeks. Am I over reacting? :cry:

I've been thinking this for weeks but thought maybe it was me being oversensitive....I lost my little girl at 24wks:cry:and know that 24weeks means that they will at least be recussitated (sp?:dohh:) and given a chance but there's lots who don't make it even after a long struggle:cry:. On the other hand I don't wanna be really negative as lots do pull through but it's not something that I celebrated this week as Smudge turned 24wks....it's been a difficult week and I'm terrified of having yet another prem baby. I lost my 34wk old son too so nope 24wks is definitely not what I class as "out of the woods" IYKWIM:nope:


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## Gwizz

melbo said:


> wilbrabeany said:
> 
> 
> I've just read this post..after posting a thread to celebrate reaching the 24 week milestone. I dont think there is anything wrong with celebrating reaching a milestone in your pregnancy. When you have lost a baby getting to 24 weeks is as significant a milestone as ever. I lost my baby at 20 weeks and my treatment in hospital was awful because my baby was not recognised as a baby as she had not reached 24 weeks. therefore she got not help and was left to dye after a 20 min struggle in a pan. I'm under no illusions that having a baby at 24 weeks or any premature baby is going to be ok, but i defence of the girls who celebrate the milestone, its just that a celebration of reaching a point when your egg can be called a baby. Stupid i know but we do celebrate lots of stupid things. I guess it just breaks a long 9 months now into blocks that you can aim for. Even my consultant has said that now i'm 24 weeks she wants me to relax(thats a joke!!) and enjoy the pregnancy and reduced my weekly appointments to monthly.
> 
> So i hope this doesn't offend anyone but i think most of the ladies who celebrate 24 weeks are not thinking oh great easy ride now and my baby will be ok if its born, more right thats another milestone out way, i'm pleased with myself for getting this far and making this baby and i want to share it with my friends on bnb
> 
> 
> I agree honey...
> 
> I celebrated my 12 week milestone, it didn't mean I wanted my baby out at that point? There is no shame that people are happy that there ''fetus'' is now a viable baby, and are happy to celebrate this.
> My first milestone was 9 weeks (scan) then 12 weeks, my next one is 15 weeks, then it will be 20 (scan) then 24 as baby will be classed as a baby and not a fetus, then 30 weeks, and then 40.
> :hug::hug::hug:Click to expand...

I also agree with both of you girls .....


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## Jemma_x

I gave birth to my little angel at 21 weeks 3 days and we only had 15 precious minutes with her, if our little girl would have survived she would have had health problems and we would have dealt with that but sadley it wasnt to be. With this baby i will be celebrating the 24 week milestone not because i want baby to come then but i will celebrate it as i know if my child comes early again, at 24 weeks they will have a better chance of survival at 24 weeks even though they may still have health problems


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## princess_bump

Jemma_x said:


> I gave birth to my little angel at 21 weeks 3 days and we only had 15 precious minutes with her, if our little girl would have survived she would have had health problems and we would have dealt with that but sadley it wasnt to be. With this baby i will be celebrating the 24 week milestone not because i want baby to come then but i will celebrate it as i know if my child comes early again, at 24 weeks they will have a better chance of survival at 24 weeks even though they may still have health problems

jemma i just wanted to say :hugs::hugs::hugs: you're an amazingly strong women :hugs::hugs:


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## Aidan's Mummy

Jemma_x said:


> I gave birth to my little angel at 21 weeks 3 days and we only had 15 precious minutes with her, if our little girl would have survived she would have had health problems and we would have dealt with that but sadley it wasnt to be. With this baby i will be celebrating the 24 week milestone not because i want baby to come then but i will celebrate it as i know if my child comes early again, at 24 weeks they will have a better chance of survival at 24 weeks even though they may still have health problems

:hug::hugs:. Sorry for your loss hunni and i totally agree with what you are saying. I celebrated the 24 week mark its just a nice thought that are little ones have a chance :hug:
xx


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## LuluBee

I agree. I have an incompetant cervix and had to have stitches in at 21 weeks to stop me from losing our little boy - something which was apparantly only days away from happening. I was relieved to make it 24 weeks because then I knew there was a chance that he would be alright, at least the hopsital would fight to save him. I'm still terrified of going into premature labour but count each day he stays put as a blessing and an extra day of maturing that my little Pip is doing.


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## Emsi76

I have literally only just seen this thread and although i understand what you mean by what a baby goes through if it were to be born at 24 weeks.

I think what is mean't, certainly by me is that when yo get to 24 weeks, it's kind of the thing you can cling to about "if" the worst were to happen and you did go into labour, the baby would have a better chance of survival than at 20 weeks etc.

I don't think anyone wants a baby born at 24 weeks.

Not sure you have got the reason why people do / say it!


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## mummymadness

Just to agree with the other ladies really ..
I will indeed be happy to hit the 24 weeks mark , I wouldnt of course want baby to come then , But at least if anything happened the hospital would treat my baby as a baby not a feteos (I dont agree with the hospital practice a baby is a baby but thats how they see it).
So i see no harm in celebrating a milestone .... I was over the moon and celebrated my 12 week milestone so its a little like that :) . xxxxx .


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