# Screening DD for additional support at school



## Cattia

My DD is just coming to the end of her reception year. Yesterday her teacher called me in after school to say that they want to do a computer programme with her to screen her for additional support because her concentration (or rather lack of) is an ongoing issue for her in school. This is not news to me; her teacher has mentioned it a few times and of course I live with her so I know what she's like! We have always said she's away with the fairies and at school they fondly call her 'dilly daydream'. She is SUCH a daydreamer and she drifts off when she should be concentrating. Because of this it is taking her longer than it should be to get things done in school and it seems to impact on everything from writing to getting changed for PE. 

In school, she is on track with everything but the teacher says she finds it hard to focus. She just got her report, and she is reaching the expected level in every area, apart from speaking, making relationships and self confidence and awareness, in those three areas she is ahead and exceeding the national expectations. Her report is really good, all about how sociable kind and caring to others she is, how great her imagination is etc, but there is this ongoing issue of her concentration. 

I asked the teacher what they were screening for, and she just said that they would not diagnose her with anything, they would just see whether this is just her personality (which the teacher seems to think it might be) or whether there is 'something else' going on. She said even if it flags something up, they would just be keeping an eye on her for now. She was kind of vague about what it really is or what they might be testing her for. 

I'm really wondering whether anyone knows what kind of programme they would be using on her? I work at a college and we screen for processing speed, reading comprehension etc but I have no idea what sort of thing they would be looking for in a 5 year old, especially as she doesn't seem to be academically or socially struggling. 

I'm worried, but also pleased they are picking it up, because her lack of focus has been obvious to me at home her whole life really. Any experiences or thoughts would be useful. The teacher said probably they won't do anything until September.


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## alibaba24

My daughter who is 5 has a very short attention span.I worry for her starting school. I can't offer advice but I hope this may be of some comfort to you.I recently found a report letter from when I was in primary 3 I would have been 7or 8. It stated that I couldn't focus on anything for any length of time. That I didn't speak unless I had to. A daydreamer etc. Not reading yet. Fast forward and now Im fine I had no support in school. I am still a daydreamer and I do have to work a bit harder to stay focused especially when it's people talking.lectures etc I switch off.its not a problem though as I am aware of it and can deal with it. My friend says my mind is like a carousel lol. Ok that probably brought you no comfort my point is that if she is getting supported I'm sure she will do fine


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## Cattia

It is reassuring to read that, thank you. My husband says he was the same way in school and he has severe dyslexia but the teacher said it would be too early to tell if it was that and although she struggles a bit with writing she's doing fine. She is also in one of the top groups for reading. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.I suspect she's always going to be this way.


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## tommyg

Hi, not sure what computer program they could be using, but they could be trying to rule out ADHD (with or without the hyperactive bit).

DS is 4.5 we are in Scotland his birthday is just before the cut off for the school year and we have deferred school.
In November preschool suggested his lack of concentration was an age thing he just needed to mature. When we went to parents night in June they asked to get the special support teacher in to observe him as he hasn't progressed the way they would think. And indicated some kind of ADHD.

Interesting you mention dyslexia, I too am dyslexic and I do worry about DS. I have wondered if the lack of concentration is an early sign of it. Dyslexia and ADHD can often be found in the same kids, and I have also read a theory (this was a academic report) that suggested they could be different ends of the spectrum of the same condition.

However personally I'm trying hard not to worry about it. He is bright enough. I believe that our school system puts far to much pressure on very young kids. Things that didn't used to happen until kids reached school are being pushed down into the preschools ie I didn't learn to write until I reach school at 4.5 DS started learning to write in preschool at just 3.


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## alibaba24

I also want to add that. If its a subject I'm interested in then I can focus for a long time and enjoy learning it. School learning / college etc I have always found boring for lack of a better word although they are necessary .


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## Jchihuahua

I teach reception as you know but have never heard of a programme being used to screen a child for additional support. I have absolutely no idea what it could be.

The fact that she acheived the Early Learning Goal for Listening and Attention tells me that they can't be too concerned because I absolutely would not give the expected level in that ELG to a child that I was concerned about their concentration. It is worth asking why they need to screen her considering she is meeting age related expectations for Listening and Attention.

Her report sounds brilliant! Well done A :).


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## Cattia

Thanks for the replies. Tommyg I had also read about the link between ADHD and dyslexia. ADD had certainly crossed my mind but I am not sure how they would be able to screen for that using a computer programme. Maybe I just need to ask what the programme is that they're using. It does seem a little odd since she is meeting all her targets. The teacher said that she often appears not to be listening but when questioned about something she has actually taken it in. Her report also says that she can focus for extended periods of time on self directed tasks but finds it much harder to focus on directed tasks. I wondered whether maybe they would be checking her processing speeds? We use a programme called LUCID at work and I looked this up and see that it can be used from age 5 so wonder if it's something along those lines? I think I need to ask them for more information rather than sitting here guessing.


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## Cattia

So it just occurred to me to go on the website and read the SEN policy. It says they use COPS and LAS testing. I googled these and they are versions of LUCID which we use at work so it looks as though they are testing processing skills which could indicate dyslexic tendency. Guess we will have to wait and see. I do think a big part of it is just down to the way she is.


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## alibaba24

Could just be the way she is and will Improve in time. How much of an issue is it If she is meeting targets? Lots of parent friends I have have been told similar attention for self directed tasks good but not as good when its tasks teachers want them to do. I think that's just life we always focus and apply ourselves better when its something we enjoy


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## Jchihuahua

In 17 years of teaching Early Years I have never known a child to be screened for dyslexic tendencies at this age. It is usually picked up a couple of years later than reception as engaging in child initiated activities but not so much on adult focussed activities is age appropriate behaviour in reception. This is the ELG for listening and attention: 'Children listen attentively in a range of situations. They listen to stories, accurately anticipating key events and respond to what they hear with relevant comments, questions or actions. They give their attention to what others say and respond appropriately, while engaged in another activity.' If she is doing all those most of the time which she will be if they have given her that ELG then surely there is no reason to screen her. I really do think this age is too young for screening.


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## Cattia

Jchihuahua said:


> In 17 years of teaching Early Years I have never known a child to be screened for dyslexic tendencies at this age. It is usually picked up a couple of years later than reception as engaging in child initiated activities but not so much on adult focussed activities is age appropriate behaviour in reception. This is the ELG for listening and attention: 'Children listen attentively in a range of situations. They listen to stories, accurately anticipating key events and respond to what they hear with relevant comments, questions or actions. They give their attention to what others say and respond appropriately, while engaged in another activity.' If she is doing all those most of the time which she will be if they have given her that ELG then surely there is no reason to screen her. I really do think this age is too young for screening.

Thanks JC, according to her report she has met this goal. What do you think would be the appropriate action for a dreamy child who is struggling to focus / doing everything slowly? Do you think just keeping an eye for now? It is quite noticeable that she drifts off a lot but she can also be very engaged when she chooses to. I'm not sure what to make of it all!


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## Jchihuahua

As a reception teacher I would be concerned if a child was not engaging in anything or showing motivation in anything, so if they struggled in an adult focussed activity but also flitted from one thing to another in their child initiated learning. If the child was not completely engaging in adult led activities but showed high levels of enagement in their own play then I wouldn't be worried at all at this stage as I would know that child is capable of becoming engaged in something and concentrating on something. If in a year's time that child was still finding it difficult to focus on adult directed tasks it would then be worth investigating but at this stage it would not be a concern to me. I have loads of children in my class who are like this.


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## Cattia

Jchihuahua said:


> As a reception teacher I would be concerned if a child was not engaging in anything or showing motivation in anything, so if they struggled in an adult focussed activity but also flitted from one thing to another in their child initiated learning. If the child was not completely engaging in adult led activities but showed high levels of enagement in their own play then I wouldn't be worried at all at this stage as I would know that child is capable of becoming engaged in something and concentrating on something. If in a year's time that child was still finding it difficult to focus on adult directed tasks it would then be worth investigating but at this stage it would not be a concern to me. I have loads of children in my class who are like this.

Thank you, this is really reassuring. I wish she was in your class! It's things like she will always be the last getting changed for PE, the last to choose her lunch card because she will have wandered off and got distracted, she will be the child with her coat still on because she forgot to take it off and hang it up, that sort of thing. She's the same at home and always has been, but she can engage in role play games with other kids for ages at a time, she can draw and make up stories for extended periods, so I know that she is capable of concentrating on things. Her teacher is leaving at the end of term and she has a different teacher in September who I like and I feel I will get a lot more feedback from her as she is more approachable that her teacher this year. I think as nothing is likely to happen this term, I will wait until September and then make an appointment to see her new teacher after the first few weeks. The new teacher is also the Early Years coordinator for the whole school and she has worked with A quite a bit this year as it's such a small school that they sometimes mix the classes up, so she knows her already. Thanks for your input, it really helps!


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## kanga

An additional thought is - if the tests come back that nothing is abnormal, how is her year 1 teacher going to ensure she is engaging with your daughter to release her full potential?


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## Cattia

kanga said:


> An additional thought is - if the tests come back that nothing is abnormal, how is her year 1 teacher going to ensure she is engaging with your daughter to release her full potential?


I'm hoping her year one teacher will be OK with her, as I think she kind of 'gets' my DD quite well. She has two children herself at the school and is always telling me how similar my DD is to her own daughter. They are both rather dreamy types so I am hopeful that she will have some idea how to deal with her personality at least. In actual fact although her daughter is older (she's 8 and my DD is 5) they are quite friendly and DD got invited to her birthday party as they play together sometimes.


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## tommyg

It's one of those things if there is something going on you are as well to know about it and she can access the extra help available. Could be the teacher is concerned that when she moves up they will be expecting longer periods of concentration that she might struggle with.

Yes she is hitting the targets when she is barely paying attention - maybe she is extremely bright an should be much better than just Miss Average?
Could also be an element of teacher erring on the side of caution, she would rather flag up and check it out than have yourself and year 1 teacher come back to her in a 6mths / a years time and ask the question "why did she not think their was cause for concern?"

That is certainly part of DS's preschool's thoughts they don't want to let it go and for him to get into school and have someone question why in 2 years of preschool they never noticed any issues.


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## Cattia

tommyg said:


> It's one of those things if there is something going on you are as well to know about it and she can access the extra help available. Could be the teacher is concerned that when she moves up they will be expecting longer periods of concentration that she might struggle with.
> 
> Yes she is hitting the targets when she is barely paying attention - maybe she is extremely bright an should be much better than just Miss Average?
> Could also be an element of teacher erring on the side of caution, she would rather flag up and check it out than have yourself and year 1 teacher come back to her in a 6mths / a years time and ask the question "why did she not think their was cause for concern?"
> 
> That is certainly part of DS's preschool's thoughts they don't want to let it go and for him to get into school and have someone question why in 2 years of preschool they never noticed any issues.

I guess that's her teacher's thinking. They said she would be too young to diagnose anything so I think the idea is to see whether there is a significant cognitive difference with her in which case I guess maybe they can use different strategies. I'm torn on it really because a part of me wonders whether it's necessary if she's doing fine, but as you say, she could end up not doing as well as her potential. I suppose if she had visual or auditory processing issues then it would be good to know. Or would it, if they can support her to pay attention better anyway, in some ways I think she is how she is so understanding the cause of it may be unimportant. What I'm trying to say is whether it's her personality or whether there is some underlying cause, they are dealing with the same child either way, iykwim? Anyway, I think this programme will give a cognitive profile which I guess could be useful.


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## tommyg

Hi Cattia I wrote you a big reply the other day that hasn't posted.
I don't see the harm in you know if its just personality or something else.
If its personality then you can try reward charts etc for good behaviour / paying attention.

If its something else telling her to listen isn't going to work. Is she trying to concentrate twice as hard as others to keep pace? I wouldn't tell her anything at this stage though.

In school I was Miss Average with suspected slight dyslexia. I failed my highers (like your a-levels) and took the college then uni route. Then I struggled in work and looked further at the suspected dyslexia thing was that causing me issues?? 

My confidence was shredded I NEEDED to know, why did i not take info in like others was i just thick? I was formally assessed. The report shocked and surprized me, some bits were shockingly bad other visual processing seriously surprizing. It explains why mum never could get how a word can "look" right or wrong. 
Knowing my strengths and weaknesses means I accept I won't remember unless I write stuff down, so I take plenty notes if someone is explaining something to me. Saves me looking daft the next time I come to the same issue and I'd forget what I was told the last time. Somehow the processing of writing it down actually helps me retain info in a way listening or just reading doesn't.

With hindsight it was taking my own notes and a different way of learning that got me my degree. However I have regret not knowing my true strengths in school. I would have taken different subjects and a slightly different path in life.

What I am trying to say is knowing if she has issues and strengths in certain areas can help school and you, help her.


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## Cattia

tommyg said:


> Hi Cattia I wrote you a big reply the other day that hasn't posted.
> I don't see the harm in you know if its just personality or something else.
> If its personality then you can try reward charts etc for good behaviour / paying attention.
> 
> If its something else telling her to listen isn't going to work. Is she trying to concentrate twice as hard as others to keep pace? I wouldn't tell her anything at this stage though.
> 
> In school I was Miss Average with suspected slight dyslexia. I failed my highers (like your a-levels) and took the college then uni route. Then I struggled in work and looked further at the suspected dyslexia thing was that causing me issues??
> 
> My confidence was shredded I NEEDED to know, why did i not take info in like others was i just thick? I was formally assessed. The report shocked and surprized me, some bits were shockingly bad other visual processing seriously surprizing. It explains why mum never could get how a word can "look" right or wrong.
> Knowing my strengths and weaknesses means I accept I won't remember unless I write stuff down, so I take plenty notes if someone is explaining something to me. Saves me looking daft the next time I come to the same issue and I'd forget what I was told the last time. Somehow the processing of writing it down actually helps me retain info in a way listening or just reading doesn't.
> 
> With hindsight it was taking my own notes and a different way of learning that got me my degree. However I have regret not knowing my true strengths in school. I would have taken different subjects and a slightly different path in life.
> 
> What I am trying to say is knowing if she has issues and strengths in certain areas can help school and you, help her.

Thank, you, that really makes a lot of sense. I agree, my husband has very severe dyslexia and in the 80s when he was at school there was very little understanding of it. He has grown up with very low self esteem which is at least in part down to the learning difficulties he had and the fact that he was made to feel stupid. I have done loads of research into the COPS programme that she is going to be doing at it does seem to have a very high accuracy rate in screening for future problems with literacy. If there is no issue detected then we at least know that her concentration problem isn't caused by a specific learning difficulty, and if it does flag something up then we know which areas she needs to work on. A label is unimportant to me, I think it's much more useful to know any areas where she may have cognitive differences so that we can work around them. As an English teacher myself, I feel that if the test did flag something up I would be fairly well placed to help her.


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## tommyg

That's it exactly Cattia the power is in the knowing what the issue really is. And then working to use her strengths to cope with her weaknesses. And yes as an English teacher you will be in a great place to help her.

I too was in school in the 80's / early 90's not easy but I tell you I had it easier than my Dad (strongly suspected dyslexic) did in the 50's. 

How does her Dad feel about her being refered?


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## tommyg

Cattia I was having a search and came across this thread. How did your DD get on with the test? 

Preschool are concerned about DSs lack of concentration / focus.


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## Cattia

Hi, well we haven't really got anywhere yet! Apparently the software can only be used on one allocated computer in the whole school and it keeps crashing so it is taking FOREVER to get through the tests for all the kids who need it. I have spoken to the head about it and she assures me it's in the process of being done. 
DD's year one teacher has raised concerns about her lack of focus. Basically, if instructions are given, DD will often not have heard them and will be wandering around doing her own thing. She suggested we get her hearing tested (already done that and I know she can hear fine) so really we are no further along. My main concerns are:
Does she have high functioning ASD which is making her zone out?
Does she have ADD?
Does she have auditory processing disorder?
Is she dyslexic?

She seems to get on well enough with other kids and her teacher tells me she is very able, but she is slow to complete anything and just can't keep track of instructions. I don't want to get her diagnosed with anything unless it's actually going to impact positively on her. Sometimes I think she just isn't cut out for the pressures of school. What is the situation with your DS?


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## tommyg

Hi Cattia, sorry you aren't getting anywhere with the school. Nightmare that they can't transfer the software onto a new computer.

DS has a psychologist going to observe him tomorrow. 
The things preschool have picked up on is he just zones out doesn't listen / follow instructions. Needs constant reminders etc. Jumps from one thing to the next. But when he is alone or the preschool is quiet he can play away for ages without issue.

So is it just a behaviour / discipline issue?
Is it auditory processing (which can also be behind dyslexia)?
ADHD - I don't see the hyper bit?

Neither of us see it as ASD, but so many of these issue have over lapping symptoms. Personally I think it's most likely to be auditory processing / short term memory / dyslexia which seems to run in my family.

I've been trying to teach him to read simple words and he is getting nowhere. Can tell me the 3 letters n-e-t, what does it say "tent".


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## Cattia

tommyg said:


> Cattia I was having a search and came across this thread. How did your DD get on with the test?
> 
> Preschool are concerned about DSs lack of concentration / focus.


I hope you get some answers. I would say he is still very much on the young side to be picking up sounds and letters so I wouldn't necessarily read much into that at this age. Dyselxia runs strongly in my DH's family, but DD is learning to read, I wouldn't say she's up there with the best readers in the class by any stretch, but she doesn't seem to be overly struggling either. However I know that there are some types of dyslexia that don't show up until later, when the reading and writing gets more demanding. In her case, I would say from the reading I have done that ADD (without the hyperactivity bit) is possibly the best fit, but to be honest I wonder if all these labels are really just different variations of similar problems. For the time being, I am going to leave things be and see how she goes. Her teacher this year has really warmed to her, which helps as I know how frustrating it can be to have to ask her again and again to do the same thing! Do update and let me know how you get on.


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## tommyg

Hi
Good to hear her teacher has warmed to her. Please keep an eye on the dyslexia thing. In school I was Miss Average never bad enough for support in school but the issues were there. When I got assessed at the age of 32 my dyslexia report shocked and surprised me, some bits of my brain are dire other bits put my as in the top few percentage of the population - I should have done better in school exams!!!
In school spelling was my biggest give away but I hid my poor comprehension by looking at the questions BEFORE reading the passage then looking for the answers in the passage. That worked until I got to GCSE type level where they are looking for much more in-depth answers, rather than the basic questions like. What was the boys name? First sentence in the passage "the boys name was Bob" LOL.

On to DS. She has suggested that we work on memory type games with him. And that we get some sort of reward system I'm place to recognise and encourage good behaviour. She is coming back to see me at the end of the month.

I should add yes I do think all of those problems are different variations of the same root issues. Which will explain why so many aspects overlap. I've read an academic report that suggests that ADHD and Dyslexia are different degrees of the same issue. But then really we don't know enough about how the brain works.


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## Cattia

tommyg said:


> Hi
> Good to hear her teacher has warmed to her. Please keep an eye on the dyslexia thing. In school I was Miss Average never bad enough for support in school but the issues were there. When I got assessed at the age of 32 my dyslexia report shocked and surprised me, some bits of my brain are dire other bits put my as in the top few percentage of the population - I should have done better in school exams!!!
> In school spelling was my biggest give away but I hid my poor comprehension by looking at the questions BEFORE reading the passage then looking for the answers in the passage. That worked until I got to GCSE type level where they are looking for much more in-depth answers, rather than the basic questions like. What was the boys name? First sentence in the passage "the boys name was Bob" LOL.
> 
> On to DS. She has suggested that we work on memory type games with him. And that we get some sort of reward system I'm place to recognise and encourage good behaviour. She is coming back to see me at the end of the month.
> 
> I should add yes I do think all of those problems are different variations of the same root issues. Which will explain why so many aspects overlap. I've read an academic report that suggests that ADHD and Dyslexia are different degrees of the same issue. But then really we don't know enough about how the brain works.

I'm glad that they came up with some useful suggestions for your DS. We've been trying something similar, we do the 'granny went to market' game where she has to try to remember the items in the shopping basket. 

It sounds to me as though your intelligence masked your dyslexia at school. I think this can be common with bright students. Can I ask, did you experience and difficulty learning to read and write? My DD does letter reversals but apparently this is pretty common, she recognises sounds and letters but her teacher says she is very bright so I also know that she could be coming up with strategies to overcome problems which could make them more difficult to spot. Hopefully when she eventually completes this assessment it will give us a better idea of whether any issues are being flagged up. Do keep me updated on your DS, it's so reassuring to talk to someone who is in the same boat as it can be a bitt daunting!


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## tommyg

Cattia I replied to you but I've just noticed it didn't post sorry.

Reading I don't recall finding it too hard, but I learned with "look and say" rather than phonics. But my fluency when reading aloud was questionable, my P4 teacher would generally give me a shorter section to read than class mates, comprehension / remembering what I'd read debatable as I'm sure I've mentioned I'd read the questions then look for the answer. Even now I have an ability to read something but not have actually recall what it was about.
Writing the physical skill was ok, but I went through a phase of tiny writing as a tactic to hide duff spelling which lead to more writing practice.
Spelling (my main issue, spell check found tactic for me) magic E confused me and id add e to words that didn't need it, I still recall being rather confused with changing ring, sing and bring into doing words ringing, singing, bringing, I ended up with s, r, br, on the page!

Ed Psychologist was out TBH I found it to be pointless. All the advice I was given was to play games with him and take him to the park. I'm starting to think preschool are making a mountain out a mole hill.


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