# Clomid Buddies (moved from TTC board)



## Ask4joy

Hi all - I am moving this thread from the ttc board to the ltttc board after some disagreements arose about expecting women posting pregnancy updates in the thread and the triggering effect of pregnancy tickers / signatures for some. This board has been deemed a "safe space" and may be more appropriate for those of us on the thread.

Thread rules:

- All are welcome. If you are expecting, please disable any tickers in your signature before posting and exclude triggering profile picture photos (e.g. Ultrasound photos).

- If you get a BFP, please share your good news! Once is enough. :) 

- Please keep thread topics to ttc / ltttc / fertility support/treatment / updates about yourself while ttc. Please exclude pregnancy progress from this thread.

Looking forward to continuing to support each other through this ltttc / fertility treatment journey!

XO 

Here is a link to the previous thread for reference: https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/trying-to-conceive/2410639-clomid-buddies.html


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## LoveCousar

Hey ladies glad to hear the updates & next steps in TTC. What's the plan for everyone next cycle (or this cycle if AF just recently showed)?


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## BelleNuit

Ask I really appreciate that you moved this thread over to LTTTC. I think it makes it clear right off that bat what our expectations are in this thread. It is fundamentally a safe place for all of us who are struggling with TTC! The support I have gotten from you ladies has helped me immensely. I don't know what I would do without you!

AFM cycle update wise, I'm in the TWW again! I'm not going to track or symptom spot, so I'll just hang out here and offer support to others!


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## BelleNuit

How are others doing? Love what's your plan for this cycle?


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## Ask4joy

Love - thanks for moving over to the new thread! As for me, I'm just waiting to get a +OPKs. Currently on cd12 and it will probably happen sometime between cd 14 - cd 18. Once I get a positive I'll call the fertility clinic and schedule my IUI for the next morning. They told me to only test with SMU (second morning urine). My Wondfo OPKS have been relatively dark, but not positive, for the last 6 days and my Clearblue advanced has been giving me a low fertility reading for the last 4 days...was hoping I'd get a positive by this Saturday but it's not looking like it's going to happen.

Nore - what a cute kitty! My step sons met the kitties for the first time yesterday and are in love. The 12 year old spent the whole afternoon lying around with them. They are a great distraction for me right now! How many days of injections do you have to do? The idea of giving myself injections freaks me out...I told DH he would have to do it if we go down that road and he said he couldn't...I said "you'll have to!".


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## Norelisa

I is here :haha: didn't realise that the other thread wasn't moved, so here I am.. 


My plan this cycle :

Currently CD5
On clomid (4-8)
Taking: 
-800iu Vit E (for lining) 
-Pregnancy complete (got from UK) 
-Coq10
-Spirulina (more before o, less after) 
-Wheat grass powder (not really for ttc but I put a bit in my morning smoothie) 
-3 injections of Follistim (Friday, Sunday and Tuesday) 
-Follow up ultrasound next Thursday and possibly an ovidrel trigger shot followed by iui on Saturday if everything goes as planned.. Last time it didn't go as planned so hopefully this time it will.. I had about 10-12 follicles on cd2 ultrasound. 

Will take progesterone supplements after o, as well as pineapple core. 

Oh my. I also got some red raspberry leaf tea from the UK, but I can't remember if it is to be drunk before or after o?! And is it OK to mix with all the other stuff I'm taking? 

Ask, I'm adding itty bitty Thai kitty picture again for you here :)
 



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## LAR83

hey! moving here too. i am anxiously awaiting AF. if i don't get it by tomorrow morning, I am going to my RE's office to do blood test before work tomorrow.


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## Ask4joy

Nore - sounds like you have a good plan! I'm doing progesterone and pineapple core after O too. I love pineapple so I buy one every month before O and slice it up to eat after. (Actually DH sliced it up for me). :haha:

Does anyone know if evening primrose oil is ok to take during a clomid cycle? I know not to take it after O but haven't been taking it this cycle because I read conflicting things.

LAR - are you having any signs of AF? Hoping AF stays away and you have good news to share!


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## OnErth&InHvn

waiting on AF


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## LAR83

Thanks Ask! No AF symptoms. I don't get much in the way of AF symptoms usually other than cramps. They usually start up right before or as as my AF is starting. Nothing yet but they could still come.


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## BelleNuit

Glad to see everyone has moved over!

Nore that sounds like a great cycle plan! I'm rooting for you! Loving the kitty picture too! I went to Koh Samet Thailand a few years ago and there were tons of friendly (and healthy) cats to play with. I loved it!

Lar its super promising that AF hasn't shown yet for you! especially considering the squinters you've been having. I'm rooting for you too!

Ask I used EPO with femara last cycle because I assumed it would be fine (i didn't look into it). I ovulated on CD 14 and everything seemed normal. I didn't end up taking it this cycle because I ran out. Now you have me wondering if there is an interaction! I dunno!!

Well I have successfully lost track of where I am in my cycle, woo hoo! I'm pretty early in the TWW though, i know that for certain lol. Just going to focus on other things in life and try my best to forget about ttc


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## LAR83

Thanks Belle. Glad to hear your 2 week wait hasn't been too stressful. Hope it stays that way!


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## LAR83

Although as I am finding out "two week wait" is kind of a misnomer.


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## LoveCousar

I'm currently on CD 8, I've taken my Clomid for this round (CD 2-6) & just awaiting ovulation of course. This month I am taking folic acid & I previously was taking Vitex 800mg but stopped once AF showed. Just hoping I have a stronger ovulation this round since last round my numbers were so low on my blood test (9.54) so I know my egg quality was not good enough to even get pregnant.


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## Ask4joy

I'm going crazy looking at these ovulation tests. They've been almost positive since I started testing on cd8. So frustrating. 

Love - I just realized we are both in Ohio! Lots of Ohio ladies on here! :)


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## LoveCousar

Ask - I didn't even notice! What part are you in?


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## Ask4joy

I grew up on the east side of Cleveland but moved about an hour south when I married my husband. Where are you?


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## BelleNuit

Those almost positive OPKs would be driving me crazy Ask! Hoping they go positive for you soon!


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## Ask4joy

Ugh I know Belle - I'm guessing it's because of the clomid. I don't remember if that happened before? I really liked not tracking at all last month but I guess if we are doing IUI and if I'm supposed to start progesterone after O I have to track.


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## BelleNuit

Do you just call in when you get your POS OPK then? I have been thinking I might do a monitored cycle for my first IUI, just to see how my lining responds. I mean, hopefully I won't need an IUI, but I'm being realistic about things


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## LoveCousar

Ask I'm in Columbus. I was looking at a few centers in Cleveland incase I was referred to a RE.


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## Ask4joy

Cool! I'm seeing Dr. Goldberg at the Cleveland Clinic. He is the head of reproductive endocrinology at the Cleveland Clinic and has published a lot of research. Everyone says he's the best!


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Nore - sounds like you have a good plan! I'm doing progesterone and pineapple core after O too. I love pineapple so I buy one every month before O and slice it up to eat after. (Actually DH sliced it up for me). :haha:
> 
> Does anyone know if evening primrose oil is ok to take during a clomid cycle? I know not to take it after O but haven't been taking it this cycle because I read conflicting things.
> 
> LAR - are you having any signs of AF? Hoping AF stays away and you have good news to share!

I think my RE talked about EPO, saying I could take some herbs but should avoid EPO.. I have to admit I didn't look too much into it after I read that people with epilepsy should avoid EPO.. (though I am almost considered epilepsy-free I don't want to take any risks. haha:) ) But then again, it could also be a "no" because I am doing injections as well as clomid.. 



Ask4joy said:


> Ugh I know Belle - I'm guessing it's because of the clomid. I don't remember if happened before? I really liked not tracking at all last month but I guess if we are doing IUI and if I'm supposed to start progesterone after O I have to track.

For my IUI they will do a follow up ultrasound on CD12. Not sure how injections of Follitrope will play on OPK tests though.. I have a few left of the Clear Blue ones... 



BelleNuit said:


> Do you just call in when you get your POS OPK then? I have been thinking I might do a monitored cycle for my first IUI, just to see how my lining responds. I mean, hopefully I won't need an IUI, but I'm being realistic about things

I think its great to get the lining monitored, but I would strongly reccomend Vit E (800-1000 IU daily). My af went from 2 days to 6 days, and even though my follicles didnt grow last time, my lining did!:)

Going to acupuncture this afternoon.. I think. :) I like the systeme here, you just show up during opening hours and get treated as soon as the DR has time. I have had to wait up to 1 h, but that is rare..


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## Ask4joy

Belle - yes. My first 3 rounds of clomid were monitored and I always had good lining and only 1, maybe 2 mature follicles at O so I think my RE thought it was fine not to monitor me. AF tends to be on the heavier and longer side for me (5-6 days, not including spotting, with the first 2 days being heavy flow) and was even heavier on Clomid. I think I read somewhere that heavy AF can be a symptom of low P. I think having a monitored cycle is a good idea...it definitely tells you a lot!

Nore - I like that system! And an hour isn't bad...sometimes I wait 30 minutes even for a scheduled appointment (though not usually). That is great that you're nearly "epilepsy free"! That's gotta be a good feeling!

I think clomid is really drying me up this month. No fun! Or else my body is just out of whack right now. I hope it improves soon! I feel like O is nowhere in sight.


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## Ask4joy

Just a follow up to my previous post if anyone is interested:

SYMPTOMS OF LOW PROGESTERONE

If your suffer with many of the symptoms below then it&#8217;s likely that you could be suffering from low progesterone levels:

Weight gain (especially around the middle)
Menstrual cramps
Low/no libido
Menstrual headaches
Breast tenderness/swelling
Endometriosis
Mood swings
Amenorrhea (absent periods)
Waking in the night
Spotting
Short menstrual cycles
Irregular periods
Acne
Exhaustion
Ovarian cysts
Difficulty sleeping
Low basal body temperature
Slow temperature rise after ovulation
Sugar cravings
Anxiety
Infertility 

I experience the majority of these! And noticed some of them began or became more pronounced after 30. Hoping the P suppositories help!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Nore :) I used to take 800 iu of vitamin e, but cut back when I read that it increases the risk of stroke in higher doses. Now I take closer to 500, hoping thats okay!


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Just a follow up to my previous post if anyone is interested:
> 
> SYMPTOMS OF LOW PROGESTERONE
> 
> If your suffer with many of the symptoms below then its likely that you could be suffering from low progesterone levels:
> 
> Weight gain (especially around the middle)
> Menstrual cramps - CHECK!
> Low/no libido
> Menstrual headaches
> Breast tenderness/swelling
> Endometriosis
> Mood swings
> Amenorrhea (absent periods)
> Waking in the night (CHECK!)
> Spotting (CHECK!)
> Short menstrual cycles
> Irregular periods (CHECK!)
> Acne
> Exhaustion
> Ovarian cysts
> Difficulty sleeping
> Low basal body temperature
> Slow temperature rise after ovulation
> Sugar cravings (CHECK! And the cycle I had progesterone supplements I had almost no cravings!)
> Anxiety
> Infertility (CHECK :cry: )
> 
> I experience the majority of these! And noticed some of them began or became more pronounced after 30. Hoping the P suppositories help!

I will get progesterone after my IUI :) And I also got some natural progesterone pills from Cambodia that I haven't used yet.. :) I guess if they cancel the IUI again I will try the natural progesterone stuff :)


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## Norelisa

BelleNuit said:


> Thanks Nore :) I used to take 800 iu of vitamin e, but cut back when I read that it increases the risk of stroke in higher doses. Now I take closer to 500, hoping thats okay!

Im sure its ok, there are other things one can do for thicker lining too, so if there is a lining problem at least something can be done:D


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## Ask4joy

Ask4joy said:


> Just a follow up to my previous post if anyone is interested:
> 
> SYMPTOMS OF LOW PROGESTERONE
> 
> If your suffer with many of the symptoms below then it&#8217;s likely that you could be suffering from low progesterone levels:
> 
> Weight gain (especially around the middle) - CHECK! (Though I've lost it through dieting the last 2-3 months)
> Menstrual cramps - CHECK!
> Low/no libido
> Menstrual headaches
> Breast tenderness/swelling - DOUBLE CHECK!
> Endometriosis
> Mood swings - CHECK!
> Amenorrhea (absent periods)
> Waking in the night - CHECK!
> Spotting - CHECK!
> Short menstrual cycles
> Irregular periods - not sure if 26-32 counts as irregular?
> Acne - CHECK!
> Exhaustion - CHECK!
> Ovarian cysts
> Difficulty sleeping - only recently (clomid?)
> Low basal body temperature - CHECK!
> Slow temperature rise after ovulation - CHECK!
> Sugar cravings - CHECK!
> Anxiety - CHECK!
> Infertility - CHECK! (Subfertility?)

I told my general doctor about all of this before even ttc and she brushed me off. Even still, my OB and RE haven't checked my P levels but at least my RE prescribed the progesterone suppositories.


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Ask4joy said:
> 
> 
> Just a follow up to my previous post if anyone is interested:
> 
> SYMPTOMS OF LOW PROGESTERONE
> 
> If your suffer with many of the symptoms below then its likely that you could be suffering from low progesterone levels:
> 
> Weight gain (especially around the middle) - CHECK! (Though I've lost it through dieting the last 2-3 months)
> Menstrual cramps - CHECK!
> Low/no libido
> Menstrual headaches
> Breast tenderness/swelling - DOUBLE CHECK!
> Endometriosis
> Mood swings - CHECK!
> Amenorrhea (absent periods)
> Waking in the night - CHECK!
> Spotting - CHECK!
> Short menstrual cycles
> Irregular periods - not sure if 26-32 counts as irregular?
> Acne - CHECK!
> Exhaustion - CHECK!
> Ovarian cysts
> Difficulty sleeping - only recently (clomid?)
> Low basal body temperature - CHECK!
> Slow temperature rise after ovulation - CHECK!
> Sugar cravings - CHECK!
> Anxiety - CHECK!
> Infertility - CHECK! (Subfertility?)
> 
> I told my general doctor about all of this before even ttc and she brushed me off. Even still, my OB and RE haven't checked my P levels but at least my RE prescribed the progesterone suppositories.Click to expand...

Yeah, some Dr doesn't seem to listen.. :/ i love having this forum to learn more so I go prepared to see the Dr.. :)

Oh my cat, I did it! I injected myself with follitrope (Follistim). Not as bad as feared at all, phew!! :happydance:

Oh and I hope Rawan finds us here too. :)


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## LAR83

well i guess i will be sticking around here for a while. went for a pregnancy blood test today. havent gotten the results yet, but then i started bleeding. not heavy yet but it usually starts off slow like this... so... yea...


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## Ask4joy

Aww I'm sorry, LAR! :hugs: It's so hard when your hopes are up. A friend of mine conceived on her 3rd IUI after 2 years of unexplained infertility, so there's definitely still hope!

Nore - good job injecting yourself! Glad to hear it wasn't that bad! 

Still negative OPKs for me. Haven't even gotten a flashing smiley on the clearblue indicating an estrogen surge but my temp did drop today. I'm not very good at being patient.


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## LAR83

I am exhausted. the first cycle was easy but the second cycle not so much. hoping for a more laid back third cycle. i just want to show up to my appointments, have sex, and forget i am trying to get pregnant. if only there were a way.....


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## BelleNuit

Oh Lar, I'm sorry to hear that :( I really thought for sure this was going to be it for you. I'm still rooting for you that this next IUI will be the one.... 3rd times a charm right? You should ask your RE about the extended dose femara IUI (take it from CD 1-9), supposedly it has superior results for unexplained peeps as opposed to a standard course of femara or clomid. Might be worth a try changing it up for the 3rd cycle.


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## LAR83

thanks Belle. I might ask about that for the future, but it won't work for this cycle since I am already on day one and don't have the meds yet. I had high hopes for this cycle too since my period was the latest it's been since I started tracking. Also, I was experiencing some symptoms that I thought were pregnancy-related, but now I realize some of it was probably related to Ovidrel. Since it is a synthetic form of HCG, it tends to mimic some signs of pregnancy. very tricky! I feel embarrassed that I was so hopeful that I even went for a pregnancy blood test. Ughh... Oh well. 

How is everyone else doing?


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## BelleNuit

We've all been there Lar, don't feel embarrassed! I used to announce to my close friends every TWW that I *might* be pregnant and so should drink less when we were going out LOL. In a perfect world we both would have been pregnant a year ago. Its okay to get excited every now and then :) TTC should be exciting. We've just been doing it for too long


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## LAR83

I know.. I have had these cycles where I felt convinced before, and I promised myself I wouldn't do it again! But here I am. You seem to have done a really good job at keeping your expectations at bay. It's so hard to find a balance between being hopeful and not being *too* hopeful.


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## Ask4joy

LAR - I don't blame you for going for the test. AF was late! Did you get your hcg number back? 

Belle - I'm going to ask my doctor about femera for next cycle. The hot flashes/night sweats and insomnia with clomid is pretty awful. I honestly don't know if the 50mg even makes a difference for me. If the point for unexplained is to produce more than one mature follicle then 50mg isn't enough. But I hate to think what the side effects on 100 would be!

I had my teeth cleaned today and told the dental hygenist I *might* be pregnant so please use the extra shield for the x-rays...even though I know I haven't even ovulated yet. Lol.


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## LAR83

no.. I actually got a bizarre call from my RE's office saying that my results were in normal range, that I should take clomid starting tonight for 5 days, and then go in for an ultrasound on the 9th. apparently they didn't take very good notes there, and when she saw my results, she must have thought I went in for my day three blood work. So I have to call them back tomorrow to say wait, actually yesterday was day 1 and also my doctor said she was switching me to femara. It's kind of busy, impersonal office. Unfortunately the train was coming by when I was listening to my voicemail and all I heard was "within normal range" and "ultrasound" and thought for a split second that maybe I was pregnant, but then I listened again and heard "clomid" and realized they messed up.


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## BelleNuit

I dunno Lar, I think I've switched over to the other extreme, I just expect NOT to get pregnant, which isn't exactly good either :/ I would have felt pretty frustrated with that phone call if I were you! I'm hoping you can get those details sorted out!

Ask I also get hot flashes and night sweats on the lowest dose of femara. I think I am sensitive to slight hormone changes, you might be the same! But yes, I do agree the only way for femara/clomid to work for unexplained is by producing multiple eggs... and clomid tends to be better for that than femara. Which is why the extended dose femara is so promising for unexplained. You tend to get multiple eggs due to the longer course, but don't have the same negative side effects on lining and cm that you have with clomid, so it actually shows superior pregnancy rates.

Lar if they switch you to femara you should totally ask about the extended dose regime (with IUI)! In a clinical trial it showed pregnancy rates on par with injectibles and IUI (around 20%)


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## Ask4joy

Belle - those are exciting statistics! If egg or sperm quality is our issue, having more than one egg fertilized would definitely increase our chances that one will stick!

I finally got a flashing smiley today on cd 14. Yay! Looks like I should ovulate within a normal time frame this cycle. Temps keep dropping - will provably get a +OPK in the next 2 days. Just happy to see my body working normally after the CP.


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## BelleNuit

Yay ask! I'm glad to see things are moving in the right direction!!


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## Ask4joy

Except DH has performance issues whenever his kids are here (which is half the time). We never have issues when it's just us at home. He gets too worried about them hearing us. It's sooooo frustrating and can take an hour or more to get the job done! :nope:


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## BelleNuit

Omg Ask that would drive me crazy! Its just not fun to do it that long after awhile. Why don't you use soft cups or a syringe on those days so your DH doesn't have to worry about being heard? honestly we used soft cups 3 times this cycle because I was so sick and didn't have energy to BD.


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## Ask4joy

I wish we could do that but it takes even longer that way! We are going to use a collection condom for the IUI because he had such a hard time with the SA. It's totally a mental thing but at least we are able to power through it one way or another lol.


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## LAR83

I will ask my doctor about the extended release Femara if I don't get pregnant this cycle. I got in touch with my doctor's office today, and they said because my levels are looking good already, they want me to start Femara today (cd2) and take it for 5 days. Then I have to go in on cd10 for an ultrasound. Usually I would go in for an ultrasound on cd12 but everything got all confused this cycle since I went in for blood work 2 days earlier than usual. Hopefully they know what they are doing.. haha.. I dunno. I am nervous, but here goes another cycle. They are calling the Femara into the pharmacy now. 

Glad to hear you got a flashing smiley, Ask! When I used to buy those OPKs I would get flashing smiles for like a week or longer, it was so frustrating! Then I would keep getting error messages. I stopped buying them because it was more than I wanted to spend on something that wasn't working for me. I hope you find it useful though! 

And Belle, I understand about going to the other extreme. I used to really fear never being able to get pregnant, but after we got tests done and everything came up pretty good, and the doctor's seemed hopeful, I started really believing that I would. As frustrating as unexplained is, I am very thankful that they didn't find anything like closed tubes or something. It is reassuring to me that our bodies are functioning more or less as expected. I truly believe it is just a matter of when and not if for all of us... as long as we keep trying. I know some months that is harder than others.


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## LoveCousar

I've been so moody today. Idk whether it's from the insensitive pregnant April Fool's jokes or the fact that my best friend announced her pregnancy on social media today but I am not feeling it. I want this sooooo bad. I've always said something is wrong because I've never been pregnant & people brushed it off because I'm so "young" & tell me that "it will happen" but here I am medicated & partially monitored at 25 years old & it still isn't working. I would be so happy with just 1 baby in my lifetime, just ONE but why is it so hard for us when there are people who get pregnant so easily who think abortions are a form of birth control. BOTH OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE PREGNANT A WEEK APART & both had abortions in their lifetime. It just isn't fair :cry:


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## BelleNuit

Ask you're a good woman, those performance issues can be tough to work through! I'm glad the collection condom will be an option for you for the IUI! Thats fantastic! Maybe in a way the IUI will take some of the pressure off from your guy?

Lar i hope you're right about it just being a matter of time. I know that most people with unexplained do end up conceiving if they pursue treatment. So i think we are all doing the right thing. I've been mentally preparing myself for IUI. Ultimately it doesn't matter how my child is conceived, the important thing is that I have a child. We are all so fortunate to live in a time and a place where fertility treatments are easily accessible, even if there is a cost associated. We just have to take it one step at a time! 

Lar I'm hoping that femara will make the different for you this cycle! Who knows, maybe starting it an extra day early will help you get more eggs!

Love I'm sorry you're having such a tough go of it today, I was preparing myself to see a bunch of fake pregnancy announcements, but luckily none popped up on my newsfeed this year. I also have found myself saying "why can't I just have one! I would be happy with 1!" There are so many people who take their kids for granted that it just doesn't seem fair. If I ever do have a child I'll look at my infertility as a blessing though. It will be a reminder for me not to take things for granted. 

Well I was SUPER moody today and ended up having a crying fit lol. I want to blame it on the femara. I've been feeling irritable and on edge the last couple of days. I have a four year old half-brother who I was baby sitting today. (we share the same dad) and he randomly started calling me mommy. "mommy, mommy, can I have this, can I do this, mommy..." I had to tell him I wasn't his mommy and then he started calling me by my name. He probably doesn't fully understand what those terms mean. He knows I'm not an aunty, but it probably seems weird to him to call an adult by their first name. Maybe that's what was tugging on my heart strings today.


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## LAR83

Yes, Belle, I am so thankful for the opportunity and resources to pursue fertility treatment. so far it hasn't been very expensive because my insurance covers most of it. But it only covers 4 IUIs, so I am really hoping it works in the first 4 tries. Two down, two to go.

I just picked up the Femara from the pharmacy. My doctor started me on 5mg for some reason. I was surprised. I am also a little nervous about what side effects I might experience. Hopefully nothing too unbearable.


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## Ask4joy

Love - that's gotta be tough having both of your best friends pregnant right now. All of my best friends and nearly all of my friends have had at least 1 child at this point, which isn't surprising at my age but definitely makes me feel totally out of the loop. I can't participate in the mommy conversations and sometimes it just makes me feel sick. It will be your turn soon, I'm sure! It's only a matter of time now that you're ovulating on clomid!

Belle - it can certainly try my patience at times but it could be worse. I'm grateful that DH has been able to go every day and every other day (we've tried both and both times we conceived we were doing eod). Most of the time it's no problem but if we've had a fight or his kids are here or something is stressing him out it can take longer than I'd like! The pressure of delivering the sample definitely stresses me out because I know he's effected by that kinda stuff. I'm sorry you had a tough day! Sometimes my students accidentally call me mommy and it pulls on my heart strings too. I also have a little brother and sister (they are 9 and 13 now) and it definitely took them until maybe 6 or so to understand the dynamic of our relationship. I love them dearly (though I bawled my eyes out when at the age of 20 when my dad told me his wife was pregnant with a girl lol! I was a big daddy's girl). 

LAR - you are really lucky that your insurance covers infertility treatment. Mine covers nothing. Even the progesterone I picked up yesterday - they will only cover a 30 day supply (which is actually 2 months worth as it's only used during the luteal phase)...apparently without insurance a 30 day supply costs $300. Ugh! The IUI should be around $500.


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## LAR83

yikes! that is a lot of money for the progesterone. IUI is also pretty expensive when you consider that the success rate isn't really that high until you do a few of them. But it certainly can work on the first try. Fx that this is your cycle!

wondering, does anyone's partner take anything for sperm count/quality? and did they have it tested before and after and notice if there was any improvement? thinking about asking DH to take something, but I am not sure if he will. I bought him multivitamins a while ago, but the bottle still seems pretty full.


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## Ask4joy

LAR - DH takes a multivitamin and coq10 (we just switched from ubiquinone to ubiquinol at the beginning of last cycle which is supposed to be much better). He also started taking omega 3 fish oil at the beginning of last cycle but recently developed an allergic reaction to it. Not sure if either of those led to our BFP last month but it may have! CoQ10 is supposed to be excellent for both sperm and egg quality. He's only had the one SA which was normal so I don't know if his numbers have changed. Guess we will find out in a few days!


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## LAR83

Thanks Ask. Excited to hear how it goes! Hmm.. I didn't know coq10 was good for sperm too. Maybe I will pick some up for both of us to take.


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## Ask4joy

Can't hurt! It's a powerful antioxidant. Just make sure you get ubiquinol not ubiquinone (your body has to work to convert the ubiquinone into ubiquinol which it becomes less efficient at as you age).


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## LAR83

thanks for the head's up! will probably pick it up tomorrow. I guess there is no problem with taking it with clomid or femara? I plan to take it and hopefully convince DH to take it too.


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## Ask4joy

I don't think so. It's not an herb and doesn't effect hormones as far as I know. 
It supports healthy cell development and helps repair damaged cells.


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## Norelisa

LAR83 said:


> Thanks Ask. Excited to hear how it goes! Hmm.. I didn't know coq10 was good for sperm too. Maybe I will pick some up for both of us to take.

Ok, so last summer my hubby had following results after SA(approx):

Count; 99 million (good)
Mobility (15% - of these 15% only about 5% moved forward) (bad)
Morph: 3% (not the best, huh?!)

We redid a test end of Dec, with no big changes other than DH cutting down on alochol:
Count: 119 million (good)
Mobility: 17% (6% progressive, moving forward. Slight improvement)
Morph: 4% (slight improvement)

Since it takes about 2-3 months to make swimmers I started giving hubby some extra vitamins / nuts and seeds from beginning of Dec, and we did a third SA beginning of March:

Count : 275 million (woah!)
Mobility: 67 %!!! (50% progressive moving forward) (double woah!!)
Morph: 5% (still, an improvement!)

So what he took (he forgets when I am not around, so he just had 3-4 weeks with nada.. even though I packed it in his bag, and he KNOWS it makes a difference.. Mother in Law being a bad influence...:growlmad:)

- Follic Acid (5mg - he took my tablets)
-COq10 (30 mg)
- 2-3 brazil nuts a day for the selenium
- Multivit (grrrumph that he also stopped taking..)
- Vit C (also stopped taking by now :nope: )
- walnuts / pumkin seeds / sunflower seeds as snacks
- 1 square of dark chocolate every once in a while..

I am really annoyed that he stops taking his supplements, as we clearly saw a big change after he had taken them for 2 months.. I guess we will know the count and motility next week-ish if we can do the IUI this cycle..


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## LAR83

thanks nor! that is really helpful. my dh had 3% morphology when he was tested too. I understand the frustration with dh not taking his vitamins! the nuts and seeds are a great idea though. my dh loves nuts, so that sounds doable :)


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## BelleNuit

Nore those are fantastic results!!! I have DH on fish oils, coq10, vitamin C, mens multi vitamin and melatonin (which he uses for sleep). Melatonin is also a pretty strong antioxidant. Its so great to hear actual tested results and the improvements shown! Hopefully that morphology will keep sneaking up for you guys as well!


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## LAR83

anyone notice changes with your period while on clomid or femara? I don't know if it might be from taking the clomid the last two cycles or the femara this cycle.. but my period is much different. usually it is about 6-7 days including spotting/light flow days, with at least 2-3 very heavy days and 2-3 medium flow days. this cycle I only had two days with light to medium flow and now nothing on day three except a little blood when I wipe. so strange. my period is never this light. I don't know if it is a good thing, a bad thing, or if it doesn't really matter, as far as fertility is concerned. I am also going through it emotionally tonight. I don't know if it has to do with the Femara. maybe, but it could just be me. my mom died in a tragic way less than a year ago and the grief is hitting me like a ton of bricks tonight. I can't stop crying. :(


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## Norelisa

LAR83 said:


> anyone notice changes with your period while on clomid or femara? I don't know if it might be from taking the clomid the last two cycles or the femara this cycle.. but my period is much different. usually it is about 6-7 days including spotting/light flow days, with at least 2-3 very heavy days and 2-3 medium flow days. this cycle I only had two days with light to medium flow and now nothing on day three except a little blood when I wipe. so strange. my period is never this light. I don't know if it is a good thing, a bad thing, or if it doesn't really matter, as far as fertility is concerned. I am also going through it emotionally tonight. I don't know if it has to do with the Femara. maybe, but it could just be me. my mom died in a tragic in way less than a year ago and the grief is hitting me like a ton of bricks tonight. I can't stop crying. :(

My af got shorter on clomid and it was likely due to thin lining (taking Vit E helps!). 

Sorry for your mom, I know how you feel, it will hopefully be better! My mom died 2 years ago from ovarian cancer and it was pretty awful at the end (it actually hit the news back home in Norway).. :hugs:


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## steph1607

Hi all,

I am very new to this (joined this morning and so this is my first post ever on any forum) so please bear with me. My husband and I have been trying to conceive for almost a year now and I was diagnosed with PCOS in January after having no periods at all since coming off the pill. Thankfully I rarely have other symptoms of PCOS, but I have noticed that since coming off the pill my body seems to want to put on weight. We are health and fitness fanatics so it is being kept more or less at bay, but it is frustrating.
After blood tests, semen samples and an HSG we were given the go ahead to start clomid 50mg CD2-6, with my last tablet due to be taken this afternoon.
I don't really have a question as such, so I'm sorry about my rambling, but I've just been feeling a little down about everything and worried about what might be to come in the future. The extra stomach fat isn't helping my mindset to be honest as I have previously suffered with eating disorders. 
Anyway I promised my husband that I would at least try and reach out to people who may have experienced similar things, so here it is!


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## Norelisa

Hello and welcome Steph:)
In which part of the world do you stay? It seems like it's a good way to go to do hsg/sa etc before starting clomid as if there are any issues the Clomid wouldn't be much help, would it? :) 

Are you temping / using opk?


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## BelleNuit

Well I think you will be in good company here. Many ladies on the forum have pcos and (from what I've seen) most get pregnant pretty quickly with a little help from clomid or femara


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## BelleNuit

Lar I'm sorry you're going through a tough time. Grief is like that sometimes and can sneak up on us (hugs)


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## steph1607

Thank you ladies :)

We live in Hertfordshire, England. I'm still undecided about using OPK/temping as this is our first cycle on clomid - I don't want to get too obsessed with charting everything and end up just stressing out and driving myself mad. Although my husband is a police officer so I guess it would help with timing things around his shifts..


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## BelleNuit

Steph as long as you BD EOD you will be good. If you get ewcm that's a good sign that you're fertile


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## Ask4joy

LAR - I know that clomid can thin your lining. For me, AF was actually heavier after clomid. I'm so sorry to hear that about your mom and that you are having a tough time. :hugs:

Steph - welcome! Belle is right, your chance of success on clomid is high with pcos! Having this support group has helped me tremendously. 

AFM - Still waiting for my +OPKs! Another flashing smiley today - day 3.


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## LAR83

Thanks everyone. Trying to hold myself together. TTC right after her passing is really hard on me because I wanted her to be here more than anything for this time in my life :(

I must have been really out of it last night, because when I went to take my pills tonight, I saw that I had forgotten to take everything last night, including my femara! I am usually so good with remembering my pills. Not sure what to do? I don't want to double up at one time. I am taking femara days 2-6 this cycle, and missed it on day 3. my dh said maybe I should take that dose on day 7 instead. anyone ever missed before and what did you do?

another thing... (I have been a mess lately, sorry for venting so much on here).. I have a thyroid condition and it has been super regulated with 50mcg of levothyroxine since I was dx'd with the condition about 5 years ago. I last had it tested in January and levels were completely fine. when i thought i could be pregnant last week, i asked my RE's office to order me a thyroid test in addition to the pregnancy test. I wasn't due to test my thyroid again until July, but because I thought I was pregnant, I asked them to check my thyroid too. I just got news today that my levels were elevated so my doctor increased my medication. I am really glad I caught it and have no idea what caused it to change after being so steady for years. If my thyroid levels are out of whack, it will make it harder for me to conceive and maintain a pregnancy, so I am hoping my levels straighten out quickly.


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## Ask4joy

LAR - I can only imagine how tough this time is for you. Sometimes life feels so very unfair. I think my first or second month on clomid I forgot to take a pill one night and realized it the next morning and took it then. Maybe take one tonight and another in the morning? I'm not sure...I'd consult Dr. Google. Sounds like it was a good idea to have your thyroid checked! Who knows, maybe upping your dose will be the key!


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## steph1607

Thanks Belle and Ask, I think I'll avoid the OPKs, at least for now, and just try to relax and not overthink everything :)


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## BelleNuit

Good luck steph. OPKs don't always work for women with pcos anyway. 

Well half way through tww and tender bbs have set in, pretty much around the same time that they did last cycle. I'm going to assume its just a sign that AF will be here right on time. I've pretty much accepted that we're going to need to do IUI.


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## Norelisa

woop woop! Third and last injection injected:D

haha, just realised we don't have any preseed (conceive plus) left, so tomorrow I will go to the same pharmacy like last time, and I keep my fingers crossed they still sell it (but this is Thailand, so I won't be holding my breath!). If they don't have I will order online, but it might not arrive on time.. 

CD10.. 

Oh, and I have had 1 cup of Red Raspberry Leaf tea yesterday and today. I am not a big fan of tea (or coffee).. but I will drink a cup a day until ovulation:)

Oh, you recon I can do a CB opk tomorrow morning? I finished clomid on Cd9 and it will be CD11.. I am a bit worried about early ovulation as hubby is away until thursday.. sigh.. 

And I am also temping for the acupuncture, the Dr likes to watch my temps, my tongue and feel my wrist:) haha ..


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## OnErth&InHvn

still waiting on AF.. 

:thumbup:


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## OnErth&InHvn

LAR83 said:


> wondering, does anyone's partner take anything for sperm count/quality? and did they have it tested before and after and notice if there was any improvement? thinking about asking DH to take something, but I am not sure if he will. I bought him multivitamins a while ago, but the bottle still seems pretty full.

I tried DH on Count and MotilityBoost.. no testing before or after



LAR83 said:


> anyone notice changes with your period while on clomid or femara?

I didnt.


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## LAR83

hey on erth.. when is AF due? are you late yet?


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## LAR83

nore, what type of injections do you take?


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## OnErth&InHvn

LAR83 said:


> hey on erth.. when is AF due? are you late yet?

cd75 so yes very late. Nothing i can do. No insurance. Before we had it but it was OOP.


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## LoveCousar

BelleNuit said:


> Well I think you will be in good company here. Many ladies on the forum have PCOS and (from what I've seen) most get pregnant pretty quickly with a little help from Clomid or femara

I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones then because I only have PCOS & I'm over a year TTC & 4 months into Clomid & no success yet :dohh:


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## BelleNuit

Hey Love, you can't count the first couple cycles on the lower dose when you didn't O :) I will bet you'll get lucky in the next 2-3 ovulatory cycles!


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## Ask4joy

I agree with Belle, Love.

Nore - yay for being done with injections! Hoping this is your month!!!

Earth - I'm sorry :( Any natural remedies you can try? Vitex?

Steph - I don't blame you! I'm so sick of OPKs!

Belle - that's how I feel about IVF. I hope IUI works though!

Cd 17 and still only a flashing smiley and wondfos have faded over the last few days. The only time I didn't get a +OPK by cd 16 was my first month on clomid. I guess I'm back in that boat since I haven't taken it since November..


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> I agree with Belle, Love.
> 
> Nore - yay for being done with injections! Hoping this is your month!!!
> 
> Earth - I'm sorry :( Any natural remedies you can try? Vitex?
> 
> Steph - I don't blame you! I'm so sick of OPKs!
> 
> Belle - that's how I feel about IVF. I hope IUI works though!
> 
> Cd 16 and still only a flashing smiley and wondfos have faded over the last few days. The only time I didn't get a +OPK by cd 16 was my first month on clomid. I guess I'm back in that boat since I haven't taken it since November..

I tried to jump start O with 25mg Clomid but it didnt do anything. Vitex doesnt start AF


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## LAR83

on erth- sorry to hear it has been so long! can you try maybe a higher dose of clomid? or what are your plans?

ask- have you thought about how many cycles of iui you will do before considering IVF? I have been asking myself that lately. my doctor suggested anywhere for 3 to 6.


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## BelleNuit

Lar from what I have read with unexplained it is most cost effective to do a max of 3 IUI cycles before going on to IVF. That's what we'll aim to do anyway. I know 3 IUI cycles doesn't seem like much


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## LAR83

wow, you are right, that doesn't seem like much. I am thinking since my insurance pays for 4 IUIs, I might as well take advantage of that and do all 4. I was thinking of doing two more out of pocket, but maybe it isn't worth it. I guess for now I will just hope I don't have to do more than 4 and then cross that bridge if and when I come to it.


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## OnErth&InHvn

LAR83 said:


> on erth- sorry to hear it has been so long! can you try maybe a higher dose of clomid? or what are your plans?
> 
> ask- have you thought about how many cycles of iui you will do before considering IVF? I have been asking myself that lately. my doctor suggested anywhere for 3 to 6.

I had decided to be done but i do have extra clomid laying around that i bought ahead of time, so im not sure.


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## BelleNuit

Lar I think it totally makes sense to do all 4 IUIs in your case. I guess you could consider doing 2 injectible IUI cycles on your own as they have a higher efficacy rate. Worst case scenario if it doesn't work out, at least the injectible cycles would give you a bit of an idea of what IVF would be like. I've been considering doing 1 injectible IUI cycle just for that very reason.


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## LAR83

what type of injectables do people take? I am not familiar with them. is that the gonal-f or something? does it just give you more mature eggs to work with than clomid and femara? I feel like I much rather do that before I go to IVF.


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## BelleNuit

ya i think its usually gonal-f, but the doc might suggest a different mix of drugs depending on your needs. Injectible IUI cycles are generally more effective than cc or fe IUI cycles. I think usually around 18% per cycle for unexplained, but also higher rates of twins and higher order pregnancies. It gives you more eggs to work with than what cc or fe would... hence the higher likelihood of twins


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## Ask4joy

My doctor suggested 3-4 rounds of IUI. If we end up doing 3-4 I might ask about doing injectables. One of my best friends did 6 cycles then got her BFP on her first IVF. I just want to be pregnant by the end of the summer and before I turn 35 in October!

Earth - can you do 50mg? That is if you decide to give it another go!

Do you think the fact that I O late my first cycle on clomid means it's not really working? I thought for sure I'd be going in for my IUI by tomorrow (cd 18) but not yet...


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## LAR83

Getting pregnant before the end of the summer with a sticky baby sounds wonderful! I would love that! Even if I could be pregnant before the end of the year, that would be great, but the sooner the better. My friend got pregnant with IUI and I asked her which cycle-- she said the 5th or 6th, she couldn't remember which one. It was the last cycle before she was going to do IVF. So that could always happen too.. it is hard to tell!


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## BelleNuit

Thats the hard part of ttc, you just never know what's going to happen! Even more so with unexplained!

well, about half way through tww now and my bbs are absolutely KILLING me, again, just like what happened last cycle. Wondering if its maybe a sign of higher progesterone? I'm not hoping for a bfp, or not getting my hopes up i guess


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## LAR83

not hoping for a bfp? I am confused. you mean so you don't get your hopes up?


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## BelleNuit

ya, i just don't want to get my hopes up anymore. it just sucks lol


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## LAR83

yea.. the letdown after getting your hopes up is killer. I am going to try extra hard not to get my hopes up either this cycle. I will still be hoping for it, just not *too* much.


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## Norelisa

LAR83 said:


> nore, what type of injections do you take?

I am taking Follitrope (follistim) 75 IU (0.15ml), 3 doses (on CD 6 - 8 - 10) Going in for ultrasound tomorrow so will let you know if my little follies grew or not this time :) 



LAR83 said:


> wow, you are right, that doesn't seem like much. I am thinking since my insurance pays for 4 IUIs, I might as well take advantage of that and do all 4. I was thinking of doing two more out of pocket, but maybe it isn't worth it. I guess for now I will just hope I don't have to do more than 4 and then cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

Do with injections if you can - here in thailand they are pretty expensive, so if you get them covered do them! (IUI + u/s + clomid + all fees: 13900 thb, injections not included: 4500thb extra!) :)



Ask4joy said:


> My doctor suggested 3-4 rounds of IUI. If we end up doing 3-4 I might ask about doing injectables. One of my best friends did 6 cycles then got her BFP on her first IVF. I just want to be pregnant by the end of the summer and before I turn 35 in October!
> 
> Earth - can you do 50mg? That is if you decide to give it another go!
> 
> Do you think the fact that I O late my first cycle on clomid means it's not really working? I thought for sure I'd be going in for my IUI by tomorrow (cd 18) but not yet...

Would it be possible to go for an U/S? My Dr wants me in on an ultrasound before the IUI ,, That way maybe you could get a trigger shot? Ovidrel? In case the eggs are ready and just need a little push?


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## Norelisa

Haha, I feel like my whole day went in the search for preseed again. Only one pharmacy in Bangkok carries this stuff (conceive plus) so its quite a trip.. I had decided to go by taxi, but since it is so difficult to find I decided on using grab taxi. After waiting for 20 min the drivers cancelled on me, so I decided to go a bit closer, one stop on the MRT (underground) and two stops on the airport link.. And then I got lucky and got a grab car after only 5 min! Still, it took me over 3.5h to go and get that little overpriced bottle, haha:) vent over.. I ended up treating myself to a lovely piece of margaritha pizza on the way back home.. And since I am alone, I might go for ice cream tonight. Oh man. They have sundea with mango chocolate coating.. oh my.. I am very tempted to be bad today...


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## LAR83

nor, I am not sure what thb stands for but that sure does sound like a lot of money if it anything close to us dollars. I am glad you found preseed. It sounds like you had to go on an adventure to get it, but it is worth it. i love that stuff. just stocked up on a couple bottles myself. good luck! hope this is your cycle!


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## Norelisa

It's Thai bath, so iui cost approx 13900 thb= 400 USD :) still adding up though, with the injections, supplements, preseed and the list goes on...


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## LAR83

oh ok.. that is a big difference, but still I am sure it does add up especially if you have been doing tx for a while. 

Ask, I don't know the answer to your question, which is why I didnt say anything. Maybe it is working fine and you are just ovulating later. That would be a good question for your doctor probably. I know I would be anxious if I was doing IUI unmonitored because I would be afraid the OPK was wrong and I missed my O or something. That is just me though. I can find anything to be anxious about. It sounds like you have a great doctor so I am sure he knows what he is doing. Have you found the OPKs to be accurate in the past? Like nor said, ovidrel may be something to consider in the future if this cycle doesnt work. I get mine from Freedom Fertility Pharmacy. I think they deliver nationwide? It is only about $100 if insurance doesnt cover anything. It could really help you to narrow down O.


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## BelleNuit

Hey Ask, some of the ladies with pcos might know better than I, but I thought if you got to a certain point (like CD 20ish) and hadn't ovulated that you might still ovulate on your own, but its unlikely that the clomid did anything. Looking at your chart I definitely think you're gearing up to O! Maybe your body just needed a little extra time to get to baseline this cycle? 

Well irritability has set in, combined with the super sore bbs I'm just a lovely person to be around. I know its just PMS. Isn't it cruel that we ttc all cycle long and get "rewarded" at the end with horrible PMS symptoms and AF. I'm just really upset that this is happening to me/us. I'm so fucking done with infertility, especially since there is no reason for it!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks for the feedback, ladies! If I don't get a +OPK by cd 20 I will call my RE. My first round of clomid I didn't O until cd 20. If I didn't know better I'd swear I was ovulating today with all the pain I'm having! If I don't ovulate at all it will be the first time in my life (that I'm aware of)! Belle, you're right, my temps look like it is imminent!

I'm sorry you are feeling crappy, Belle. I'm so done with this process too. But of course I'm actually not. It's hard not to feel angry that it happens so much daily for the majority of the population!


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## LoveCousar

So I had really sharp pains near my ovaries last night & a major headache, which is rare, so I decided to test yesterday on CD 13 & got a + OPK. This morning was still + but I can tell it's fading away now. I'm going to try testing again this evening to see but I have NEVER had a positive reading this early so I'm excited about that :) Still won't get my hopes up though because I've had false OPK readings before so
 



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## Ask4joy

Love - that's definitely a positive! Exciting! Are you temping to confirm O?


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## LoveCousar

Ask4joy said:


> Love - that's definitely a positive! Exciting! Are you temping to confirm O?

Yes, I'm tempting. I don't know how to read my charts though & I have a lot of open circles because I wake up different times so it looks wacky.


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## LoveCousar

My chart, its bad & I was sick during AF so idk if I count those temps or not
 



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## Ask4joy

Love - you'll probably have to wait a few days to confirm a temp rise.

My Wondfo opk is almost positive after it had faded out the last 3 days. Yay! Looks like I'll be going in Friday morning for the IUI. I hope it's not too late! I'm only supposed to test with SMU and call when I get a positive and they schedule the IUI for the next morning.


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## BelleNuit

Yay Ask!! So excited for you to have your IUI! I have high hopes for you!

Woohoo Love on the OPK!! Sounds like things are moving in the right direction!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle! I'm kinda nervous but excited too! 

LAR - was your DH allowed to use preseed? They put some "sterile surgical" lubricant in the collection packet they gave me so I'm guessing it's ok? I'll ask when I call to schedule in the morning.


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Thanks Belle! I'm kinda nervous but excited too!
> 
> LAR - was your DH allowed to use preseed? They put some "sterile surgical" lubricant in the collection packet they gave me so I'm guessing it's ok? I'll ask when I call to schedule in the morning.

How exciting! I am going in for ultrasound in a couple of hours. I took a CB opk this morning which was negative (CD12 today). Oh, was it you who sent me this link:
https://sites.google.com/site/miscarriageresearch/iui-success-rates ? 

I have read through most of it .. and my big question ..
---Having a full bladder increases IUI success rate from 7% to 14% ---

I mean.. should we have a full bladder? Wouldn't that be quite uncomfortable? ..

Well, getting ready for my first appointment of the day, neurologist first stop, ultrasound second stop:winkwink: If I don't have to wait crazy long I will also go and see my kitties at the shelter for some relaxing :blush:


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## LAR83

hi ask, so glad ur opk is getting darker and the iui is in sight! my clinic offers the condom option but we have never used it. he has used the sterile cup instead. he hates doing it, but he pushes through it. i would think preseed would be fine since it is sperm friendly, but yes it is probably best to ask juuuust in case. now that i think of it, maybe we should use the condom this time so it will feel more natural for him.

i have heard that about having a full bladder when doing iui but never tried it. maybe i will try it this time.


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## Norelisa

How long do you stay "put" after the iui? Guess it wouldn't be ideal rushing off to the ladies just after the procedure, haha :)


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## Norelisa

Yay!! 2 big follies and one almost big! 
Lining a little on the thin side (7.3) but the Dr didn't seem to worried. Tomorrow night I will do the ovidrel trigger shot (yup, I'm a big girl and I punch myself with needles). And iui scheduled for Sunday morning, wow, I'm so relieved it didn't get cancelled again!


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## Norelisa

Even though my Dr didn't seem too concerned with my lining (last time it was only 6.4 this time 7.3) I will continue taking my Vit E, and also try to eat some almonds, pomegranate juice if I find someone selling on the street and maybe some mushrooms (I want to eat dim sum,haha, with mushrooms) :) 

Off to the kitties after I get the trigger shot to bring home..


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> My doctor suggested 3-4 rounds of IUI. If we end up doing 3-4 I might ask about doing injectables. One of my best friends did 6 cycles then got her BFP on her first IVF. I just want to be pregnant by the end of the summer and before I turn 35 in October!
> 
> Earth - can you do 50mg? That is if you decide to give it another go!
> 
> Do you think the fact that I O late my first cycle on clomid means it's not really working? I thought for sure I'd be going in for my IUI by tomorrow (cd 18) but not yet...

I could do 50...


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## Ask4joy

Ugh I think I may have missed the freakin window! My temp went up this morning although I had a somewhat restless sleep. I had major O cramping yesterday and positive opk late last night. My Wondfo is positive this morning but clearblue is STILL giving me a flashing smiley even though I can see the test line is much darker today I guess. I should have done a monitored cycle but my doctor said I didn't need to. Should I still schedule IUI? This sucks.

Here are my wondfos over the last 36 hours:
 



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## Norelisa

You still bd'ed so at least some chance :) I guess if they are planning iui better do it sooner rather than later? Also, would they do an ultrasound before doing the iui to check? I will do another ultrasound before the iui on Sunday..


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## LAR83

nor, so glad you got some good eggs! 

ask,.. i dont know, but i can say for me personally i would feel uncomfortable paying for the IUI if I it wasnt clear when I was O'ing and I thought I may have missed my window. That is a lot of money to spend if you aren't sure. If I were in your shoes I would try getting as much BDing in as I could and ask for a monitored cycle next month. But that is just me, maybe your doctor would think otherwise? maybe they can even do an ultrasound now to check?


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## Ask4joy

Well I called and told the nurse all the details (temps, cramping, OPKs) and they said I didn't miss the window and tomorrow morning would still be the best time. It definitely makes me nervous but I guess I should trust their experience. I guess we will just do it and if it doesn't work do monitored next cycle.


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## LAR83

hmm i wonder how they can be so sure that you didnt miss your window? in any case, good luck! i hope it works out for you.

nor, have you done iui before or this will be the first time? my doctor recommends that i lie down for 5 to 10 minutes afterward. i might go in with a full bladder but not *so* full that i am too uncomfortable. my friend who got pregnant on her iui said she took the whole day off work and spent the day lying on her back and praying. she seems to think that is what helped bc all the other cycles she didnt spend the day lying down. that sounds like it might just be a coincidence though. i havent looked it up yet to see if that is really a thing.


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## Ask4joy

Well they called me back saying they can't do tomorrow anyway (wth?!) so I'm going in this afternoon. IUI will be at 4pm. Hopefully it's the right timing. How stressful!!!


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Well they called me back saying they can't do tomorrow anyway (wth?!) so I'm going in this afternoon. IUI will be at 4pm. Hopefully it's the right timing. How stressful!!!

Fingers crossed!! I hope they will do an ultrasound though, in connection with the IUI? I guess if you o-ed yesterday doing IUI today is good :thumbup: 

Ah well.. hubby on his way home from Myanmar.. I guess we will either: BD today AND tomorrow (after trigger shot), IUI Sunday, BD Sunday night, BD Monday morning.. or a light version of this, haha :)


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## LAR83

I have been told it is best for the man to abstain for 2 to 4 days before the IUI. I might have my IUI as early as Monday morning, so I plan to BD Friday night and then no sex Sat or Sunday. And then def as much BDing as I can after the IUI.

Ask that does sound super stressful! But sounds like this afternoon is even better in case you already started O'ing. I think sometimes things happen for a reason. Good luck!


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## steph1607

Best of luck Ask :)

Haha Nor, good luck sticking to your schedule! Yesterday was CD8 and 2 days post my fifth clomid tablet so DH and I decided that that seemed like a good time to start BD every other day for a couple of weeks and hope that the clomid tablets actually do something. He was on a late shift so I said I would wait up for him and then we would both just go to bed at the same time. I was on the sofa and kept falling asleep then waking back up - finally looked at my phone at midnight and had a message saying he had arrested someone so would be about 5 hours late home so I should just go to bed and try and get some decent sleep... but obviously by then I was pretty awake! He finally got in at 4:30am and then I only had less than an hour until my alarm so we figured we may as well make the most of being awake!! Now I'm at work and feeling horrendously tired, but at least we managed to stay on schedule!

And there was me thinking this was supposed to be the fun bit with less thought needed!


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## Norelisa

Lar, I know.. I think however they recommended to bd the night of trigger (which is tomorrow), and I'm a little afraid I'll o on my own before even getting the trigger shot.. I'll let hubby decide though, if he can manage. For the quality it's better to have done "something" within the past few days, but for numbers I'm not sure if it matters?


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## Ask4joy

On my way to the clinic with DH's specimen tucked in my bra lol. Crossing fingers and everything!


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## LAR83

I am not sure either nor. If they told you to BD the night of the trigger that should be fine. my clinic tells me not to but I am sure it could work either way.

ask... i carried my dh's under my shirt the whole way to the clinic last time too! i heard it is good to keep it close to the skin. fx!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Ugh I think I may have missed the freakin window! My temp went up this morning although I had a somewhat restless sleep. I had major O cramping yesterday and positive opk late last night. My Wondfo is positive this morning but clearblue is STILL giving me a flashing smiley even though I can see the test line is much darker today I guess. I should have done a monitored cycle but my doctor said I didn't need to. Should I still schedule IUI? This sucks.
> 
> Here are my wondfos over the last 36 hours:

You can O with a HIGH reading. We got a BFP in 09 with our angel baby on only High readings! ( plus in the instructions it says that too)


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## Ask4joy

Well I did it! Feeling a little discouraged because the nurse told me I should have come in tomorrow and she didn't know they told me they couldn't fit me in. She says she is going to talk to the director because it's not okay that the receptionist told me that. Ugh...hopefully I still have a chance. Good news is DH's count was 15.7 million after wash and they like to see 5-10 million.

And for me it did kinda hurt when she put the catheter in. Ouch! But it was quick. Had a full bladder because I read that it helps improve chances.


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## LoveCousar

Ask - FX that this is it for you! I really don't have much knowledge on IUI's but if there is an egg & there is sperm, it's always a great chance! Keep hope hun &#10084;


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## LAR83

I wonder how come they seemed to be so sure tomorrow was it for you? My thinking would be I rather do it a day early than a day late if I wasn't sure because at least if you are early there will still be sperm alive in you tomorrow. but if you miss your O then there is no egg to fertilize. Just my thoughts but I am not a doctor or nurse, so they must have their reasoning! Man this whole timing everything is stressful.


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## Ask4joy

I agree, LAR. I guess statistically you have the highest chance of success the day after your positive opk...but I got a positive yesterday eve. She said I should only test with SMU and do IUI the next day. Honestly I think tomorrow would be risking it being too late. I've been having pretty severe O cramps since yesterday afternoon.


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## LAR83

I see. Well either way it sounds like you had good timing and if you follow it up with a lot of BDing then you've covered all your bases! I think you have got a good shot this cycle.

I am nervous about my timing this cycle too. I usually go in for an ultrasound on cd12, get an ovidrel shot that day, and then go back on cd13 for the IUI. This cycle they are having me go in on CD10 for the ultrasound since I did my blood work two days early and started taking my meds one day early. Nothing wrong with doing the ultrasound early... I am just hoping they don't trigger me too early because I am hoping to grow more than one mature follicle, which might take more time. I think if it is too early, they will send me home with the trigger shot and ask me to do it myself within the next couple days. I guess I have to trust them, but it's so hard. I don't know why I doubt these doctors so much! I guess because I feel more invested in making this work than they do. Not that they have given me that impression, but sometimes I wonder what the incentive is for them to get us pregnant quicker? I guess so they will be able to publish good success rates, but I can't help but think they could make a whole lot more money if it took longer. I know I am being cynical but I just wonder about this stuff.


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## OnErth&InHvn

am i the only one not doing IUI? :sad1:


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## LAR83

OnErth&InHvn said:


> am i the only one not doing IUI? :sad1:


No, you're not.


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## Ask4joy

It's hard not to overthink it all, LAR. And I've wondered the same things as you. Even with monitoring, they can only estimate/project when you'll O based on the trigger which is the same thing they do based on your LH surge. IVF on the other hand is super regulated. We will keep BDing over the next few days!

Earth - Belle, Steph and Love aren't doing IUI. Just me, Nore and LAR right now.


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## BelleNuit

Yep we're holding off on IUI till June! I have one more femara cycle, then for May we'll either NTNP or give it a go for a natural cycle before starting IUI. I'm looking at our June IUI as more of a diagnostic process than anything. I'm looking forward to the cycle monitoring to see if my lining is develops/thickens normally. Based on what happens in June we might try a couple more FE + IUI cycles or do a couple IUI + injectible cycles.


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## LoveCousar

OnErth&InHvn said:


> am i the only one not doing IUI? :sad1:

I'm not doing an IUI. I'm on my 4th round of Clomid 150 mg & 1 or 2 DPO currently


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## LoveCousar

Well I think it's safe to say that I O'ed on either CD 13 or 14. I have to wait a few more days to see what Fertility Friend says but I'm pretty positive about this cycle & I also never O'ed this early. Now for the dreaded 2WW .... all over again #sigh I really don't know which is worst, waiting for AF to show or the 2WW
 



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## Ask4joy

It's all kind of agonizing, isn't it, Love? AF, waiting to O, 2ww. I have high hopes for you this cycle! 

Holy ovulation cramps. I forgot how much O can hurt on clomid. My whole right side of my abdomen is in pain pretty much. It's ok to take Tylenol, right? I had a tiny bit of spotting...I think she had a hard time getting the catheter in because she had to try a different one and then bam it felt like it was punched through.

Belle - sounds like a good plan. Not sure if we will do IUI next month if we don't concieve this cycle...may wait for June when school is out.


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## LoveCousar

Ask - it's soooo bad! Then you try to convince yourself to not symptom spot or obsess over pregnancy threads but you can't stop. lol I seriously need a hobby


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## Norelisa

Strange, I just had my acupuncture and the Chinese Dr told me to not do anymore acupuncture after iui (and if af comes I can go back but in the unlikely event of bfp then he only recommended herbs and no acupuncture. However, if I do get pregnant (at all) I don't want my little bean to suffer through the mud water - aka herbs :)

It kind of works out not having to go back for at least two weeks, next week is Chinese new year and we are heading over to Vietnam (Hanoi and halong bay).

Haha, yes, hobby please :)) although I do spend way too much time with my kitties at the shelter.. I'm kind of deciding who to bring with me should we go back to Europe. I'd definitely want to bring my Charlie (he has his own Facebook page: Charlie the senior kitty) but he will need company.. Tough choice though.. I love most of them dearly.
 



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## Norelisa

Oh dang. 

Opk peak on clearblue and in 30 min I'll trigger (I've called and confirmed with the Dr).. A little panicking haha


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## LAR83

Good luck Nor! Action time!


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## Ask4joy

Woohoo you've got this, Nore!

Charlie looks sooo sweet!


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## OnErth&InHvn

trigger is no big deal, you got this!! 

I think everyone freaks out the first time. I know i did. It was no biggie!!


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## Norelisa

The trigger shot is done now :) the panic came from the fact that I got a peak (+) ok my clearblue so I was worried my body wanted to ovulate on its own, haha, but seems like it's ok to take the trigger shot even after a positive opk :)


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## OnErth&InHvn

cd78 update: OPK :bfn: HPT :bfn: :thumbup:


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## rickyandlucy

Hey guys, just checking in, been MIA for a while. Technically I guess I am not a clomid buddy anymore; doc won't give me anymore prescriptions. After the last one (round 5), she referred us to a specialist. Haven't gone yet. Kind of taking a few months off. Still trying, but trying to be more relaxed about it. Stopped temping. Still wearing my Ava bracelet, but not sure how useful it really is since the info still doesn't match up with OPK's. For example, it says I am going to O this Sunday. But I got a positive OPK _last_ Sunday. I hadn't tested the 2 days before that though because I wasn't expecting it so early on a non-clomid cycle, so I am not sure if I would have gotten a positive sooner. Either way, I am definitely thinking I should have O'ed Monday or Tuesday.

Which brings me to an interesting point. Yesterday I had brownish/pinkish milky discharge. But only when I wiped. Happened several times when I went to the bathroom. I know it is early for implantation bleeding, but I can't help but wonder...

Have we gotten any BFP's on here since I have been gone? Baby dust to all!


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## LoveCousar

Good Luck Nor!

I have a really good feeling there will be a few BFP's on this thread within the month. I truly feel that in my heart & I am so excited to find out with you gals <3

I finally got my crosshairs on FF & confirmed I ovulated on CD 13. I have NEVER ovulated so early so I know it's the Clomid doing its job. Is it crazy that I'm actually nervous to finally have a chance to be pregnant?


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## LAR83

nor, i am surprised to hear that about the accupuncture. so it isn't good to do in the 2 week wait? I am actually going to do accupuncture tomorrow for the first time. I am hoping it may help me with my fertility this month. i dont know if the effects are that immediate but i am going to give it a shot. i bought a few sessions of community accupuncture on groupon, so i got a good deal.


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## Ask4joy

Nore - good job! When do you go in for your IUI? I'm guessing 36 hours after trigger?

Earth - ugh! Wish there was something you could do! :hugs:

R&L - welcome back! No worries that you aren't on clomid right now. My guess is the specialist will suggest clomid or femera + IUI as a next step if you don't concieve before then (but hopefully you will never even have to go!).

Love - yay for confirming O! I think you have a great chance! It is definitely kinda unreal to get a BFP after trying so long...we get so stuck in ttc that actually being pregnant seems out of reach!

I just went to the bathroom and have a strong burning sensation now. Drinking lots of water and hoping it goes away! My O pains have significantly dissipated so I'm hoping that means I O'd last night when they were at their worst...that would be perfect timing!


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## BelleNuit

Lar my acupuncturist often wouldn't have me back for the TWW. I think it just depends on the person and what they determine your eastern medicine diagnosis to be. I actually quit going to acupuncture after last cycle because I wasn't seeing any additional positive improvements and I wanted to save up my benefits for when I pursue more intensive treatment. 

Well I'm feeling out. BBs are still a bit sore, but not as bad as what they were a few days ago which tells me progesterone is falling. I also had some intense cramping last night after BDing which often happens in the days before AF shows. So I think its just a matter of time. AF should show on Monday or Tuesday.


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## Norelisa

LAR83 said:


> nor, i am surprised to hear that about the accupuncture. so it isn't good to do in the 2 week wait? I am actually going to do accupuncture tomorrow for the first time. I am hoping it may help me with my fertility this month. i dont know if the effects are that immediate but i am going to give it a shot. i bought a few sessions of community accupuncture on groupon, so i got a good deal.

I started acupuncture around beginning of January, and this is the first cycle he didn't want me to do acupuncture during 2ww, normally he rather ask me to come in up to 3 times a week during the 2ww, which is why I was a bit confused... 



Ask4joy said:


> Nore - good job! When do you go in for your IUI? I'm guessing 36 hours after trigger?
> 
> Earth - ugh! Wish there was something you could do! :hugs:
> 
> R&L - welcome back! No worries that you aren't on clomid right now. My guess is the specialist will suggest clomid or femera + IUI as a next step if you don't concieve before then (but hopefully you will never even have to go!).
> 
> Love - yay for confirming O! I think you have a great chance! It is definitely kinda unreal to get a BFP after trying so long...we get so stuck in ttc that actually being pregnant seems out of reach!
> 
> I just went to the bathroom and have a strong burning sensation now. Drinking lots of water and hoping it goes away! My O pains have significantly dissipated so I'm hoping that means I O'd last night when they were at their worst...that would be perfect timing!

Yup, 36 h.. :) Sunday morning at 9 am (lucky hubby has to be there before 8:)



BelleNuit said:


> Lar my acupuncturist often wouldn't have me back for the TWW. I think it just depends on the person and what they determine your eastern medicine diagnosis to be. I actually quit going to acupuncture after last cycle because I wasn't seeing any additional positive improvements and I wanted to save up my benefits for when I pursue more intensive treatment.
> 
> Well I'm feeling out. BBs are still a bit sore, but not as bad as what they were a few days ago which tells me progesterone is falling. I also had some intense cramping last night after BDing which often happens in the days before AF shows. So I think its just a matter of time. AF should show on Monday or Tuesday.

Yeah, it can easily add up, I pay around 510-570 thb for each session. The Dr did say that my tongue looked "good" and I think he might have mentioned before that you just helps the body back on track, so you won't need to keep doing it forever :)


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## BelleNuit

Ya that makes sense Nore, I've been doing acupuncture since September so I think I've maxed out on the positive effects. I do O 2 days later now (CD14) which is fantastic


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## OnErth&InHvn

eh, no big deal. I mean yeah its frustrating but at the the same time, you come to a weird peaceful place about it. I could get on InHouse and order some Provera to start AF but it wouldnt be here until 2-3wks and i dont know what, if anything, that could potentially mess up. Right now i like to think my ovaries are resting, taking a break... Maybe thats not such a bad thing. :thumbup:


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## Norelisa

Ehm. So I have this temp rise today. I only tested opk last night so who knows if it would have been a peak already yesterday morning or evening before? And today temp rise but iui scheduled for tomorrow (in 25 h). Would the trigger + injections play a temp trick on me? Or will the iui tomorrow be a late April fools joke? We will probably go to the clinic later today (now 8am and hubby still sleeping), so I'll ask then..


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## OnErth&InHvn

Norelisa said:


> Ehm. So I have this temp rise today. I only tested opk last night so who knows if it would have been a peak already yesterday morning or evening before? And today temp rise but iui scheduled for tomorrow (in 25 h). Would the trigger + injections play a temp trick on me? Or will the iui tomorrow be a late April fools joke? We will probably go to the clinic later today (now 8am and hubby still sleeping), so I'll ask then..

trigger messes with temps


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## BelleNuit

Nore I often get a partial temp rise the day before I O! I bet it will go up even more tomorrow! Good luck with your IUI!!!


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## Ask4joy

Same thing happened to me Nore...and like Belle said, sometimes it seems like I get a bit of a temp rise right before O...maybe because estrogen starts to decrease after the LH surge? Peak estrogen causes the temp dip and precedes the LH surge. I think hcg can also affect your temps.


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## Ask4joy

I had a nice big temp spike this morning. Will start my progesterone tonight per my doctor's instructions. If I put my +opk on Wednesday (got a positive Wednesday night) then FF puts ovulation on Wednesday. If I put it on Thursday it gives me a Friday ovulation, assuming my temps stay high the next 2 days. If I ovulated Wednesday then that means I ovulated either before or within a few hours of my first +opk, which would mean my REs timing method wouldn't work for me. I'm hoping it was actually Thursday when I had super intense O pains and also the day of the IUI! We BDed last night so I guess we have our bases covered!

What do you all think about my chart / O date?

Also, kinda funny...DH and I were talking about life after we have a baby and he made the comment "we aren't going to be preventing anything so you may end up with more babies than you think!" Kinda made me happy to hear he wants to have lots of babies with me lol...even though I think I'll be good with 2 (maybe 3). At this point I'll feel lucky if we get 1! He is 1 of 8 children!


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## BelleNuit

Ask I think its possible you O'd on Friday! I often O 2 days after my first pos OPK, so O might be today for you if this is just a partial temp rise! Can't wait to see your temps tomorrow!! 

For those who got IUIs this cycle what was it like? was it awkward or uncomfortable at all? Or was it no biggie?

Last night I woke up after having a pretty intense night sweat. I had one last cycle in the TWW as well. I'm wondering if this could be from the femara? Have other ladies had night sweats after clomid or femara? I was reading it can sometimes be an early pregnancy sign, but I don't want to get my hopes up as literally everything can be an early pregnancy sign lol. I also had one last cycle and AF still showed, so not getting my hopes up. I'm 11-12 dpo today and always find the last couple days tough to get through. I might start spotting later tonight or tomorrow, and if I do I figure thats a good sign AF will be here (due Monday or Tuesday).


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## LoveCousar

Belle - I've had bad sweats to where I woke up soaked on Clomid. I have bad hot flashes though so it could just be me. You haven't tested yet?

Ask - sorry I'm no help. It's my second month charting & I'm like a kindergartner to charts. 

Speaking of charts, are my temps supposed to still be rising 4 DPO?? From yesterday temps & today temps, it has spiked .5. Does anyone have a link sitting around that would be informational for me about charting?


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## LAR83

Ask I dont know enough to answer your question, sorry!

Belle, I have the occasional night sweat, but I am not sure if it was related to the clomid or femara. I thought the IUI was very easy. The second one was a little harder than the first bc the same thing that happened to ask happened to me... they couldnt fit the speculum in and had to try another. I wouldnt say it was painful though, more just uncomfortable, and when the catheter went in I didn't feel anything.


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Love and Lar, at this point I'm thinking its probably just a result of the femara. Love I never test before AF is due anymore because I hate BFNs and wasting $$ on tests. 

Aside from the speculum thing it sounds like the IUI isn't too bad then


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## Ask4joy

I'll be honest the IUI was quite painful...the nurse practitioner couldn't get the catheter in (no problem with the speculum) so she changed catheters and it literally felt like she punched it through my cervix and the pain totally caught me off guard. It was more than uncomfortable - it hurt pretty significantly but that doesn't seem to be the norm so I don't want to scare you. It hurt for 30 seconds max. Maybe my cervix was closed. LAR - did a nurse or your RE do the IUI? 

I get night sweats every night I take clomid which dissipate after the last pill though I woke up pretty hot and sweaty last night.


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## BelleNuit

Oooh Ask that sounds super uncomfortable :S I'm hoping it won't hurt that way for me when I get to that point! 

Ya, I would expect getting hot flashes and night sweats while taking the femara. But I didn't get any of those SE while actually taking the pills... the night sweats just showed up yesterday at 10 dpo. I would have thought the femara would be out of my system by then. Night sweats are definitely not the norm for me.


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## Ask4joy

Belle - anything not normal is a good sign! I know it's hard to get excited but there's definitely reason to have hope!

I've wondered if my cervix is the whole reason I've had a hard time conceiving although it obviously happened last month...I've never been able to feel it "open". One of my best friends had 6 IUIs before she did IVF and she said they never hurt.


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Ask, I hope you're right. I'm on my 20th cycle without a bfp ever so it feels almost impossible to me at this point. Stranger things have happened though. 

I was wondering the same thing Ask if maybe there was something related to your cervix slowing things down? I know mine is tilted funny so I wonder the same thing for myself.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks for not thinking I'm crazy haha! If our cervixes are the problem then IUI should do the trick! If AF shows after this cycle I'm definitely going to do a monitored cycle and ask about Femera. Clomid seemed to dry me up this cycle.

There's totally cases of clomid / Femera working for people with unexplained - hoping you are one of them!


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## BelleNuit

Ya, if I did end up pregnant this cycle I think I would attribute it more to the lifestyle changes (DH has been weed free for about 2 months now, and my cycle is 2 days longer than what it used to be), and maybe the femara helped a second egg along or something. I hope we'll finally get a bit of luck

You're definitely not crazy Ask!! I wouldn't be surprised at all if you caught your first IUI. I'm hoping since the IUI cleans out some of the sub-par swimmers that that will make all the difference for you!


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## LAR83

Ooh oops got it wrong when I thought it was the speculum that didnt work, Ask. For me there werent any problems with the catheter but that definitely sounds painful! The nurses don't do the IUIs where I go, only the REs, not always my own.


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## Ask4joy

I was pretty surprised that a nurse was doing it and kinda unhappy about that...she was a nurse practitioner, so qualified to do the procedure but honestly she wasn't very professional and the whole experience kind of sucked.


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## Norelisa

My iui this morning: I wasn't sure what to expect, so I was mildly surprised that I had to dress in hospital gown with my hair covered and all. They wanted me to have a full bladde,which might have worked, but since there was over 1 h Delay I had to go, they got a bit worried and got me to drink lots of water. Long story short, I went to the bathroom 7 times.. Haha.. After I spent 1 h in a bed, but not with my feet elevated. The Dr did the procedure while using ultrasound (on my belly). I'll upload a picture they got me as I would like to know what it was... No pain (other than getting too much water and feeling like peeing all the time).. After I have been volunteering but no strenuous activities. I would have preferred not volunteering and just resting, but they needed me and I couldn't say no..


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## Norelisa

Oh, and I think hubby was a little disappointed, he had a very low count this time (we bd'ed less than 36 h ago.. But total motile they could use gave a count of 15 million.. 

I'm supposed to start the progesterone tonight, I think..


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## Ask4joy

Nore - I'm glad it was not painful for you! They had me lie down for 10 minutes but I stayed for 15. I'd love to see the ultrasound! My RE's office didn't do that. I started progesterone last night...so far so good. My DH had a count of 15.7 million post wash and the nurse said it was "good" and that we had extra because they like to see 5-10 million. I read that anything above 9 million doesn't change the success rate. Was the 15 million after the sperm wash?


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Nore - I'm glad it was not painful for you! They had me lie down for 10 minutes but I stayed for 15. I'd love to see the ultrasound! My RE's office didn't do that. I started progesterone last night...so far so good. My DH had a count of 15.7 million post wash and the nurse said it was "good" and that we had extra because they like to see 5-10 million. I read that anything above 9 million doesn't change the success rate. Was the 15 million after the sperm wash?

15 after wash (total 52 million (previously 99-117-275 million), our Dr also said it was a good number. 

Any insight on my ultrasound? I litterally have no idea what to make of it..

Also, I am hesitatant on starting progesterone already tonight as prescribed (48 h past trigger shot). Hmm.. I guess I could start tomorrow?
 



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## LAR83

I had an ultrasound this morning (cd10). I have one mature follicle, so they are going to give me the ovidrel shot today. I am a little disappointed since last month I had 3 mature follicles, but then again, I didnt get pregnant last cycle (maybe an early cp, I am not sure?), and all I really need to get pregnant is 1 egg. Sometimes circumstances can be "ideal" like my last cycle and not work out, and then other cycles may not look as good on paper, but end up in a healthy baby. I am trying to stay positive and look at the big picture. What is most important is the end product, so I am trying not to get too stressed with the details along the way.


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## BelleNuit

Lar femara tends to end up with 1 good quality egg but better lining as compared to clomid. The extended dose regime for femara (CD 1-9) tends to give multiple eggs and not impact lining negativity which is why it was shown superior for unexplained infertility when compared to standard course clomid or FE. But it might be something you have to ask for specifically! It's not the typical course of treatment.


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## LAR83

gothca! thanks Belle. I appreciate the tip. I will definitely ask for it next cycle if this cycle doesnt work. I was wondering what femara was really doing if I end up with one egg, which is what I would usually have anyway.. maybe it improves the quality of the egg? that would be good. i have the IUI scheduled for tomorrow morning. I am looking forward to getting it done and getting to my tww.


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## BelleNuit

Well cm had an ever so slight tan color to it this AM, so I think that's the beginning of the end. AF will be here on Tuesday I expect. Oh well, one more cycle of femara to go. Then I'll get my MMR booster in May and start IUI in June. It's really not that far away. I'm feeling a really strong sense of loss this morning. I've given up completely on the idea that it will just happen for us easily if we put in enough time.


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## BelleNuit

I think I'm going to up my dose of Vitamin E to 800 mg and take L'Arginine next cycle. I've been cautious about taking l'arginine because depending on your problem it can make things worse, a dose of 800 mg of Vitamin E can also increase risk of stroke, so I've been hesitant to do that as well. But I feel like I have nothing to lose next cycle. If it is lining thickness the combination of those 2 supplements should fix it for me. Next cycle will also be 3 months since DH quit smoking weed so his swimmers should be in good shape. It will also be 4 months into my egg quality regime so things should be good on that end too. We'll give it our all this next cycle and if it doesn't work I'll just accept that nothing will except for further treatment.


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## LAR83

sorry to hear that Belle :( sounds like you are doing everything right and I know that can make it more frustrating because you would think since you have made so many lifestyle changes you would have a greater chance of getting pregnant, but then again the changes are often cumulative over a period of months, so you have put yourself in a really good position for the next few cycles! what was you uterine lining when you had it checked?


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## BelleNuit

I had my lining checked in the summer and it was only 5.5mm on CD 15 (which was the day I ovulated that cycle). So pretty thin. I keep bringing this up to my RE/clinic but they never seem to take my concerns seriously, and its a long wait (6 months to a year) to get in to the other clinic. So we'll do cycle monitoring when we start IUI and I'll have my lining watched for that cycle at least. If they find its thin hopefully I'll finally be able to get treatment to help with that. 

I know lifestyle changes have a cumulative effect over many months so that does give me some hope. My cycle is 2 days longer now which really is huge. The supplements I've been taking have also increased my AF by 1-2 days (used to only have 2 days of flow) which is also huge and I would think would correlate with a thicker lining. Its still only 3-4 days long most cycles though so I think there is probably still some room for improvement.


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## LAR83

oh ok. I wasnt sure what is considered a good lining to have, but i asked what my lining was today, day 10, and I was told it was 9. I asked if that was good and I was told yes, that they like to see at least 6.


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## BelleNuit

Ya, I didnt even hit 6mm 6 days later than you... I'm pretty sure thats part of our problem. If that is the only thing holding us back then IUI and injectibles should work for us as they promote more eggs and better lining


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## LAR83

that is good! and hopefully some of the supplements and other changes you are making are helping. If you make it to the IUI cycle, it should be interesting to see if there has been any improvement.


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## Norelisa

Good luck Lar :) 

And fingers crossed for you Belle, I hope af won't show for another 9 months! :)

I am starting prog tonight, and I changed the FF way, as it said I ovulated on Friday, which seems to be unlikely.. Because of all the different meds and injections and my usual "never waking up at the same time/ waking during the night" I take my temps a bit lighter than usual.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Norelisa said:


> Good luck Lar :)
> 
> And fingers crossed for you Belle, I hope af won't show for another 9 months! :)
> 
> I am starting prog tonight, and I changed the FF way, as it said I ovulated on Friday, which seems to be unlikely.. Because of all the different meds and injections and my usual "never waking up at the same time/ waking during the night" I take my temps a bit lighter than usual.

if you dont wake up at the same time, you can take your temp after just 3hrs of sleep. FF says you can do either. :thumbup:


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ok i bit the bullet... I am getting Provera to bring on AF, whether i do 50mg Clomid or not. 

Should arrive within next week or so, then start it and go from there. So I might start AF/New cycle by May. :dohh:


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## Norelisa

OnErth&InHvn said:


> Norelisa said:
> 
> 
> Good luck Lar :)
> 
> And fingers crossed for you Belle, I hope af won't show for another 9 months! :)
> 
> I am starting prog tonight, and I changed the FF way, as it said I ovulated on Friday, which seems to be unlikely.. Because of all the different meds and injections and my usual "never waking up at the same time/ waking during the night" I take my temps a bit lighter than usual.
> 
> if you dont wake up at the same time, you can take your temp after just 3hrs of sleep. FF says you can do either. :thumbup:Click to expand...

I know. My issue is that I have widely different temps when f.ex measuring after waking at 3 am (after 3-4h sleep) and then again at 7am (also after 3-4h sleep) and the difference can be 36,21 first and then 36,65 on the second.. sigh.. :blush:



OnErth&InHvn said:


> Ok i bit the bullet... I am getting Provera to bring on AF, whether i do 50mg Clomid or not.
> 
> Should arrive within next week or so, then start it and go from there. So I might start AF/New cycle by May. :dohh:

-Woii :) Good luck for next cycle, you do have some time to prepare :)


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## OnErth&InHvn

if we TTC, id just do 50mg clomid and OPKs + temps. 

---------
How do i find out what dosage most women conceive on? Like do 70% get BFP on 50mg vs 10% on 150mg? ( i made that up)


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## steph1607

Earth, I've been wondering the same - I finished 50mg a week over, but as of yet no signs of O. I had to take Norethisterone before to bring on AF (which as before was practically non-existant), and then I took 50mg CD2-6 - not really sure what to expect now if anything. No side effects or anything so I'm worried it's not doing anything.


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## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Earth, I've been wondering the same - I finished 50mg a week over, but as of yet no signs of O. I had to take Norethisterone before to bring on AF (which as before was practically non-existant), and then I took 50mg CD2-6 - not really sure what to expect now if anything. No side effects or anything so I'm worried it's not doing anything.

will they give you a progesterone test? I can go to a walk in clinic ( no dr or script) and get one, thats how i knew the FE wasnt working). 

I dont have all the answers or really know what the best course is. I just know I wont O or get AF unless i do something. At first, it sounded great, what women wants AF?!


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## steph1607

I'm having a CD21 blood test next Tuesday, but I'm guessing that's not going to show much if I don't O within the next couple of days. When we saw the fertility doctor last he gave me enough tablets for three cycles of clomid, but obviously if I don't O, AF won't come so I'll have to get more Norethisterone before trying the clomid again. 

Ha, I know, sounds like a dream doesn't it, but what I would give for some stomach cramp or something right now!


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## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> I'm having a CD21 blood test next Tuesday, but I'm guessing that's not going to show much if I don't O within the next couple of days. When we saw the fertility doctor last he gave me enough tablets for three cycles of clomid, but obviously if I don't O, AF won't come so I'll have to get more Norethisterone before trying the clomid again.
> 
> Ha, I know, sounds like a dream doesn't it, but what I would give for some stomach cramp or something right now!

I have enough Clomid for a few cycles and ill have enough Provera for 3 total cycles. I have a Ovidrel shot sitting around too.

I had great plans for what i thought was going to happen and it didnt work out. I just know right now i need to bring on AF and go from there.


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## LoveCousar

Potential implantion dip? I'm really trying not to get too excited!
 



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## Ask4joy

Love - it could be! It's definitely a big dip, though implantation generally occurs between 6-12dpo, but 5dpo isn't that far off!

Earth & Steph - I don't know the answer to that but would be curious to know! 

3dpo today. So far no side effects from the progesterone though I have to wear a panty liner which kinda sucks. Nipples are sore but breasts aren't...they are always super sore from O through the first couple days of AF except when I'm on clomid...I think the breast tenderness for me is a sign of low P (fibrocystic breasts).


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## OnErth&InHvn

LoveCousar said:


> Potential implantion dip? I'm really trying not to get too excited!

could be but you could just have a fallback rise


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## Ask4joy

DH and I got in a big fight tonight...it seems like we always fight around ovulation/2ww. Sometimes I think that's why I don't have a baby...like I ruin my chances because when we argue I get so angry and upset and I'm sure my blood pressure and adrenaline sky rocket. 

On another note, my mom brought me back these "fertility stones" from california...I don't necessarily believe in them but hey, why not? I've tried everything else...one is carnelian and I think the other is fire agate. They're pretty if nothing else. :)


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## LoveCousar

Ask4joy said:


> DH and I got in a big fight tonight...it seems like we always fight around ovulation/2ww. Sometimes I think that's why I don't have a baby...like I ruin my chances because when we argue I get so angry and upset and I'm sure my blood pressure and adrenaline sky rocket.
> 
> On another note, my mom brought me back these "fertility stones" from california...I don't necessarily believe in them but hey, why not? I've tried everything else...one is carnelian and I think the other is fire agate. They're pretty if nothing else. :)

 
Same happens with me! But I have to remind myself to calm down & bite the bullet because sometimes arguing back ain't worth the risk of missing the egg & lately it's been me on edge especially with all this BM drama. It sucks so much! Last cycle we argued so bad I left & went to my mothers for a few days & missed my actual ovulation day. Maybe try sitting down & talk it out with DH? Don't want you guys ruining your chances! &#10084;


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## BelleNuit

Ask4joy said:


> DH and I got in a big fight tonight...it seems like we always fight around ovulation/2ww. Sometimes I think that's why I don't have a baby...like I ruin my chances because when we argue I get so angry and upset and I'm sure my blood pressure and adrenaline sky rocket.
> 
> On another note, my mom brought me back these "fertility stones" from california...I don't necessarily believe in them but hey, why not? I've tried everything else...one is carnelian and I think the other is fire agate. They're pretty if nothing else. :)

Ask I used to wonder the same thing for myself. DH and I would have these huge raging fights. But then I started acupuncture, and yoga, and began going for walks in the ravine. Essentially I started mellowing out a bit. We don't have those kinds of fights anymore and surprise! I'm still not pregnant lol

I'm feeling pretty down tonight. I can tell AF is coming.


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## LAR83

Well I did the trigger the morning of 4/9, did the IUI the morning of 4/10, and BD'd the night of 4/10 and the night of 4/11. I think we covered our bases, and I am probably done O'ing now so I am starting my two week wait. My RE said I could test on 4/24, but I am thinking I might start earlier and test out my trigger with some cheap tests. Haven't decided yet. Good luck everyone! I am excited to see who gets their BFP next!


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## LAR83

Belle, did you get AF yet?


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## Ask4joy

Thanks ladies...I teach my kindergarteners to "talk and work it out"...you'd think I could apply the same to my own personal life lol.

LAR - yay for being in the 2ww! Sounds like you definitely covered your bases! 

5dpo here...feeling kinda bloated and extra hungry, probably side effects from the progesterone.


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## OnErth&InHvn

My provera may be here quicker than i thought, so thats good. I talked to Dh about what to do and he didnt have a feeling one way or the other. So I guess im back on the bandwagon of TTC but once meds are gone we are DONE ( because ill have tried all of them and its not making a difference). 

Tentative plans: 
April- 10mg for 10d Provera for AF to come
May- 50mg Clomid

Ill temp til O, Just use basic OPK ( im not doing the High/Peak one, just Yes or No) and 7dpo P4 test. Nothing else. Its either going to work or its not. :thumbup:


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## BelleNuit

Sounds like a good plan Earth!

Ask I teach boys and girls with conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder (ages 6-12) anger management techniques, which I find is a bit hypocritical of me because I have a temper too! 

Unfortunately AF arrived around 9PM on Monday. So I'm on to cycle 21. I'm giving the l'arginine a go this cycle, but I'm really not holding my breath. I'm on the fence on whether to update my MMR booster for May and take a true break, or if we should just continue trying anyway. It turns out my brothers wedding will happen right on the tail-end of this cycle so it really wouldn't interfere with anything treatment wise. We could even go on to IUI if we wanted to in May, but I would have to ask the clinic what kind of time commitment the cycle monitoring would involve, because May will be a busy month for me at work. I'll talk to DH about it tonight and see what he thinks.


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## LAR83

sorry the witch got you belle! that would be great if you could to start with IUI in May! I wonder how often you need a MMR booster anyway. My dr. has never mentioned it to me. I guess you can't TTC the same month you get the booster? Well either way your first IUI is right around the corner, so that is pretty exciting.


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## Ask4joy

Earth - yay for being back on the ttc bandwagon! 

Sorry, Belle. It's good to have a plan! You are a true saint for working with kids with ODD / CD. I had a student a couple of years ago who I am sure fell into that category and it was a hellish year...I never knew a 6 year old could be so calculating, conniving and lack any sort of compassion or empathy. It was scary stuff! My bachelors degree is in psychology and I considered getting my masters in it but decided to get my masters in education. I give you lots of credit for what you do! I'm sure it can be pretty stressful at times.

Speaking of stress...DH lost his job today. I'm pretty pissed off because he has seen this coming for at least 6 months when they hired a new douche bag CFO who is also an engineer and spent the last 6 months convincing the owner that he could do DH's job and to let him fire DH (DH was the senior engineering manager). He has 6 weeks severance pay and is confident he will find another job quickly...he better be right! What horrible timing...the month after we bought our house, the month I begin fertility treatment and months before I leave my job! Trying really hard not to completely stress out. :(


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## BelleNuit

Oh Ask, I'm so sorry to hear that! That's the last thing you needed right now. I hope your DH is right and that he'll be able to find something else right away. I'm here for you. 

I actually really love my job. I'm an occupational therapist working in mental health so I feel like I often get to do more of the fun stuff that kids like to do, and I get to leave a lot of the heavy stuff to the psychologists. I also really love facilitating treatment groups with kids/teens. They're always entertaining lol. It's funny because when we first started ttc I wasn't happy with my job but couldn't reasonably leave it. It sounds terrible but I was looking at pregnancy and the subsequent mat leave as a bit of an escape. Since then I've grown into the position and have grown to love it. I think I will miss it if I ever do get to take a mat leave. In a sense the infertility has been good for me professionally. But now its gotten to the point where I feel like I have "learned my lesson."

So I talked to DH tonight, it was a really heartfelt conversation. We decided that as long as the cycle monitoring fits with my work schedule that we will pursue IUI for May. I will contact the clinic tomorrow to ask about cycle monitoring and figure out the logistical details.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle. In some ways I'm kind of relieved because he's been so unhappy at work since this new boss and it killed me to see him being treated like crap. I kept saying, "are you going to wait until you are fired to find a new job?" I'm glad he won't be working there anymore but really wish he had put more effort into finding a new job before being fired! I saw this coming ten miles away...I guess I'd be more stressed if it was totally out of the blue. DH saw it too but kept thinking the owner wouldn't let the CFO do it. I told him not to rely on that!

That's great that you love your job. I love working with kids too. Sometimes it's the toughest ones that I end up forming the best relationships with because I've had to work at it and figure them out. 

So excited that you are going to start IUI next month!


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## LAR83

That sucks, Ask! But I am really glad he got 6 months severance pay, and it sounds like he has really great credentials behind him, so it hopefully shouldn't be too hard for him to find another job! 

I studied psychology and work in the mental health field too :)


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## BelleNuit

ooh sounds like there are a few of us with psych/mental health backgrounds :) Thats awesome!

Ask I find that husbands are often a little in denial if something isn't going well with their work. I think the fact that he has credentials (as Lar pointed out) will definitely speed up his search. Like you say, at least it didn't completely blind side either of you! Hopefully he can find something that he likes better! 

I'm about 90% set on starting IUI in May. Just have to find out what the cycle monitoring schedule is like first before I commit to it. I feel a mix of emotions over IUI, excited, relieved, but also kinda sad.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks, LAR. 6 weeks, not 6 months...6 months would be awesome! He has his bachelors in mechanical engineering and has his MBA plus 25 years of experience so I'm sure he can find a job...the challenge is finding one that pays at least as much as he was already making. Since he has to pay his unemployed ex wife (don't get me started) half of his salary for alimony and child support for the next 3 years we can't afford a pay cut! The kids are with us half the time too and she always tells them to ask us whenever they need anything. Argh. 

That's cool that we all have a background in psychology! 

Belle - I felt the same way starting IUI but now I'm mostly excited...even if it doesn't work and we move on to IVF I feel like we made a huge leap towards having our baby!


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## LAR83

oops i remembered the 6 but not the rest. that is a big difference! sounds like he has a great background though so if he hustles he can probably find something quickly, and if it isn't in the salary range he wants, maybe he can take something and keep looking. sounds stressful! sorry to hear you are going through that, Ask.


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## BelleNuit

ooh that alimony and child support situation sounds tough to deal with Ask! Surely they would recalculate the payment though if he was making a lower wage? I guess that might take going to court again? I know so little about this sort of thing!

Its good to know some of the sad feelings with IUI fade. I will bet that when the time comes I will feel excited. In the meantime I have some time to prepare myself for whatever comes!


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## Ask4joy

Yes I think you're right Belle...it would involve paying a lawyer / court fees again. 

Yes you do have time! The nice thing about IUI is there seems to be several different things you can try, like the extended regimen femera you mentioned or gonal-f injectables. 

I read that Starbucks and Gap Inc. pay up to $20,000 for fertility treatments...maybe I'll become a barista. :D


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## BelleNuit

Hmm I think I might swap career paths haha. Not going to lie I briefly considered moving across the country to Ontario where fertility treatments like IVF are covered :p 

Well cycle monitoring didn't sound too time intensive so it looks like we'll do IUI with femara in May. They asked if I wanted to do a trigger and I opted out because my ovulation is so predictable. I hope that was the right choice. Now I'm second guessing myself. I am still looking at the first cycle as being mostly diagnostic. I'll start advocating for different treatment options based on what happens the first cycle. It will be nice to finally have a definitive answer as to what my lining is doing.


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## LAR83

Yay for starting IUI in May! What is it they want you to do for cycle monitoring?


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## LAR83

also I think IUI without trigger is fine so long as you have a clear idea when you O. My cycles aren't very regular, I have no physical indication of O, and I have had mixed luck with OPKs so I feel more comfortable with trigger. Sounds like you would be fine without it though, and like you said, you can always switch it up the next cycle (if there is one).


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## BelleNuit

Ya 4 out of my last 5 cycles I ovulated on CD 14, one of those cycles was on CD 13. It really can't get much more predictable than that. We are doing the cycle monitoring primarily to monitor lining thickness. When it was last checked in the summer it was only 5.5mm on CD 15 (which was ovulation day that cycle). I've been worried ever since that its just too thin to be of much use.


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## LAR83

What will you be doing for the cycle monitoring exactly? I am curious since different clinics have different protocol. I just go in for day three blood work, the ultrasound around cd 10-12, and then the IUI. Only three appointments a month, so it's not very time consuming. I have heard some women do an ultrasound the day of the IUI, and blood testing later in the cycle, but I don't do that.


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## Ask4joy

Sounds like a good plan, Belle. Will they time your IUI based on your positive opk then? 

I have been super bloated the last few days and I'm sure it's the progesterone...it's also making me super hungry and making it harder to stick to my diet. I've worked hard to lose 12 pounds in the last 3 months and I'll be pretty upset if I just put it right back on. I'm only 7 pounds from my ideal weight now. Also making my skin break out pretty bad. These side effects really suck!

Good news...DH has an interview tomorrow! He applied to the job 3 weeks ago when things weren't looking good and heard back from them this morning...talk about good timing!


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## Norelisa

Oh good news Ask, it's always uplifting when there are some options out there presenting themselves :)

And Hello from halong bay, Vietnam, I'm "fleeing" the water-war in Bangkok during Thai new years, haha :)


I was a bit worried since temps started dropping but today it went up a bit again, phew! As I take progesterone I was worried it didn't work at all :)

Belle, it's nice being followed up when problems with the lining, 800Iu of Vit E made a big difference for me, after one cycle on it my af went from 2-3 days to 6 days! And lining from 6.4 to 7.3 on cd 12(2-3 days before o).

We did u/s on cd 2 or 3, u/s on cd12 and u/s on the day of iui (though not the same u/s, it was "on the belly" like when you are pregnant I suppose.. 

I'm also feeling a bit bloated and almost constipated on progesterone.. But not too bad.. 

And for the fighting: yeah, we are having our fair part of yelling too, so many times I'm looking into tickets to go back to Norway coz I'm so angry. And hubby can be so forgetful sometimes it's driving me mad.. Haha, but most of the time it doesn't last more than one night, so the forgetfulness comes in handy as he is often in a better mood after a nights sleep..


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## BelleNuit

Lar, they will want me to go in on CD 10 for an ultrasound, and based off of that they will have me in again either the next day, or more likely, 2 days after that. I expect my OPK will go positive on CD 12 (i usually O 2 days later) so will probably have the IUI on CD 13. They want me to use regular OPKs and not the digitals though, and I have a harder time using the regular OPKs. So I'm going to practice this month using both and temping to make sure I get it right. 

Thanks Nore, I take vitamin E but my AF is still only 3-4 days long so I still worry lol. I just want confirmation more than anything that that problem is fixed. 

Ask progesterone is awful! Sorry that you have to take extra right now! I'm hoping that it will all be worth it for you! Thats great news about your husband's interview! Maybe things happen for a reason lol. Its definintely timely!

But as for this cycle, I started the femara yesterday. Only 4 more days to go!


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Lar, they will want me to go in on CD 10 for an ultrasound, and based off of that they will have me in again either the next day, or more likely, 2 days after that. I expect my OPK will go positive on CD 12 (i usually O 2 days later) so will probably have the IUI on CD 13. They want me to use regular OPKs and not the digitals though, and I have a harder time using the regular OPKs. So I'm going to practice this month using both and temping to make sure I get it right.
> 
> Thanks Nore, I take vitamin E but my AF is still only 3-4 days long so I still worry lol. I just want confirmation more than anything that that problem is fixed.
> 
> Ask progesterone is awful! Sorry that you have to take extra right now! I'm hoping that it will all be worth it for you! Thats great news about your husband's interview! Maybe things happen for a reason lol. Its definintely timely!
> 
> But as for this cycle, I started the femara yesterday. Only 4 more days to go!

why not the digi?


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## BelleNuit

They said that fertility meds can alter when digis go positive. I can't imagine that the lowest dose of femara would change it that much though. So thats why this cycle I want to use bothn(digi and standard) to test it. I'll temp the few days before and after O to confirm as well.


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## Ask4joy

I used both digis and regular OPKs this cycle and my digi gave me many days of high readings but did not go peak when the regular did...was still just flashing. The wondfos have never failed me.


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## BelleNuit

Oh man, I've done some reading and now I'm thinking the trigger shot might be a good idea to do because it can help with timing, which apparently is extremely important for IUI because the swimmers don't live as long! Who knew! I don't think it'll be too late to ask for the trigger though as it's still a cycle away. I just kinda wanted to avoid that big nasty needle lol


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## LAR83

Belle, the trigger shot didn't hurt me at all. I did it three times already and it is just a little pinch, the same as when you get blood work or something, just in your stomach instead. I was a little concerned the first time and then when I realized how easy it was, I didn't worry about it at all the second or third time. You should try going for it if you think that might be the better option for you. 

How did DH's interview go, Ask?


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## BelleNuit

Thats good to know Lar! I hope I'll get a trigger that can go in my abdomen (rather than in my butt) because then I could just do it myself. I trust DH, but intramuscular needles in the behind are a whole other thing haha


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## Ask4joy

I did the trigger shot when I was on clomid without IUI and it doesn't really hurt...like LAR said, just a little pinch like any other shot or blood being drawn. The weird thing was I think I ovulated more than 48 hours after it that cycle based on my temps and luteal phase length which is rare. 

DH's interview got moved - it was just a phone interview and the guy ended up getting called into a meeting so he said he will reschedule next week. Argh!

I'm having some AF like cramps today but AF is still at least 5 days away...last cycle I had this for like a week before AF was due before I tested and got a BFP so I'm hoping it's a good sign but not holding my breath.


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## Ask4joy

Symptom spotting is in full effect. :blush: Feeling super achy in my lower abdomen and developing a cough. I had these same symptoms this time last cycle. Just took my temp and it was 99.2 (which is a mild fever for me). I used a wondfo this morning and thought I saw the faintest of faint lines (compared it to a control I took on cd12). Same thing with a Walmart cheapie but the line didn't show until it dried although the control I have has no line dried. DH sees the lines too (didn't tell him
which were the controls). Could totally be evap lines though. This is what I get for testing early! I guess I like to torment myself!


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## LAR83

sounds promising ask! how many dpo are you now?


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## Ask4joy

8dpo according to FF. 9dpiui.


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## LAR83

fx the line gets darker and you get a sticky baby! <3


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## Ask4joy

Thanks LAR - they honestly look like evaps (colorless)...but kinda weird that my "controls" didn't have them. My fever is going up - 99.9 now. Kinda makes me nervous. Wondering if I should take Tylenol? I'm worried my body is rejecting / fighting off the embryo. Or I'm getting the flu? :(


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## BelleNuit

certainly sounds promising Ask! I'll keep my FX for you!


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Oh man, I've done some reading and now I'm thinking the trigger shot might be a good idea to do because it can help with timing, which apparently is extremely important for IUI because the swimmers don't live as long! Who knew! I don't think it'll be too late to ask for the trigger though as it's still a cycle away. I just kinda wanted to avoid that big nasty needle lol




LAR83 said:


> Belle, the trigger shot didn't hurt me at all. I did it three times already and it is just a little pinch, the same as when you get blood work or something, just in your stomach instead. I was a little concerned the first time and then when I realized how easy it was, I didn't worry about it at all the second or third time. You should try going for it if you think that might be the better option for you.
> 
> How did DH's interview go, Ask?

I have done 1 trigger shot (didnt O.....) anyway and it goes in your stomach. Ice the area before if you want but it really doesnt hurt AT ALL and im a CHICKEN when it comes to needles. Id rather get a tattoo than a shot.....


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## BelleNuit

Thanks guys, the trigger is sounding less scary to me!


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## Ask4joy

Happy Easter to those of you who celebrate!

My fever has gone down but my temp is still very high for me (99 degrees). Mild nausea, sore nipples, cough and generally feel like crap. 9dpo and BFN on Wondfo but a pretty apparent evap line!


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## BelleNuit

Sounds promising Ask, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you got a bfp in the next few days!


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## LAR83

Woohoo for feeling like crap! :thumbup: :haha:

Just kidding, but you get my point!


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## BelleNuit

Lar when do you plan to test? Your tww must be coming to an end soon?

I take my last femara pill tomorrow. Didn't get any S.E. this cycle. I feel kind of checked out for this cycle, I'm already on my way thinking about the next haha.

My best friend is 24 weeks pregnant and is in hospital. She almost lost the baby a week ago, but somehow managed to hang on. She has placenta previa so they are monitoring her pretty closely. I went to visit yesterday and heard her baby's heart beat. I had such conflicting emotions at that. She then started asking me about my infertility and how I feel about it all. I hate that question the most "how do you feel". It always makes me cry. I can never answer. How the hell do you think it makes me feel? I obviously have a lot of emotions over it all that I'm not letting myself express. It's just too hard right now. Especially at the start of fertility treatments. If at the end it doesn't work out I'll deal with my emotions then. Right now everything is so up in the air, you can't grieve anything. That's the hardest part, not knowing what will happen and what to expect from your life.


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## LAR83

Belle, I am only about 6dpo today. My doctor suggested I test on April 24th or 25th. I was thinking of testing earlier and testing out my trigger, but I don't know if I want to go through the trouble. I feel mentally very far removed from the idea that I could be pregnant right now. I guess I am just protecting myself because last cycle, when I thought I was pregnant, was rough for me. So far I am doing an awfully impressive job at convincing myself I am not pregnant, but we will see what the second half of the two-week wait brings. I agree not knowing how the story will end is very hard. Part of me feels confident that I can eventually have a baby if I keep trying at it, but the other part of me doesn't ever fully let myself believe that that will happen.


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## Ask4joy

BFN on an FRER after a 6 hour hold. Fever is 100.6. Everything hurts. I guess I just have the flu. :(

That's so tough, Belle, I'm sorry. I saw my step sister today who is 5 months pregnant and announced on Christmas Eve at my mom's. She is on bed rest because of a threatened miscarriage. Part of me felt bad and worried for her but the other part was thinking "you got pregnant so easily...you have no idea what I've gone through". Sounds pretty selfish I guess. 

LAR - I know it's hard to get your hopes up. Sometimes I think, I don't know how much more of this I can take...but somehow I keep trucking along.


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## LAR83

Aww sorry to hear that ask. It is only a good thing to feel crappy if it is bc of a pregnancy. I definitely wouldn't count yourself out unless AF comes though. It is still early for you. I have known people who didn't test positive until 6 weeks pregnant. Hoping you still get a BFP and feel better soon! <3


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## OnErth&InHvn

I had placenta previa, its not fun. :( 

I dont celebrate Easter but i hope you all have a good day!! 


and still waiting on my provera to get here. I thought it would be quick... nope, stuck in India. :cry:


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## steph1607

Belle, it really is so tough sometimes and it is one of those things that people can't begin to understand if they've never gone through all this. I feel like each cycle I spend all my time dreading the next cycle and all the heartache that might be to come. I do try to be positive but sometimes I just want to cry. Especially when you constantly get asked 'when is it your turn?'. Our friend announced on Wednesday that his girlfriend is expecting. They've been together 7 months. We have been TTC longer than they have even known each other. They are lovely people and he will be an amazing dad but I just felt so bitter about it. And then felt like a right bitch because I wasn't instantly happy for them! I just find it all so tiring, TTC takes up so much head space! I have a CD21 blood test tomorrow, I would probably bet money that it doesn't show O!

Ask, fingers crossed for you, don't count yourself out.


----------



## Norelisa

I have to agree with the others, the trigger shot did not hurt :)

So, I tested today, just because I was hoping to get a "false" positive, but no.. negative as can be.. ah well.. I guess I should wait until blood test on Saturday, but I have a few cheapie sticks here, so who knows..

We might also have some "change of plans" - hubby got a job offer back in France, and we decided to go for it... it feels kinda strange to both of us, because we do enjoy living in Bangkok, but many things are a bit frustrating here as well.. And in France we might get 2 free IVFs if it goes that far.. I am not a 100% sure how it works though, but I have a few french friends I can ask.. (or if anyone is lurking, please contact me, hehe:) )


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## Ask4joy

Nore - sorry about the bfn but it's still early! Job offer sounds exciting! And for free IVF I'd say it's totally worth it! But hopefully you won't even need to take advantage of that! Would it be near your DH's family? 

BFN again this morning. 10dpo / 11dpiui. Sick as a dog...had to call in sick from work. This sucks! What are the chances that I get the flu two cycles in a row right around implantation time?! Ugh!


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## BelleNuit

Steph I can relate to that sense of bitterness. That is the hardest part I think. I just can't be happy for other people's pregnancies right now. I honestly feel like a terrible person for it, but I've decided to just give myself permission for feeling this way. We are going through something incredibly difficult and can't help how we feel about it. 

Nore, what an unexpected turn of events! But that certainly sounds exciting! I must admit, the prospect of free IVF would weigh heavily on my mind in that situation. Sorry about your BFN, there is still time for it to go positive!

Same with you Ask, 10 dpo is pretty early on and there is still time for a positive to show up! Some ladies don't even implant until 10-12 dpo! Sorry that you are feeling so sick! Your temps are off the wall high so I can imagine that you aren't feeling to well!


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## rickyandlucy

Yeah I can totally relate Steph & Belle. I skipped a baby shower recently cause I just couldn't deal. Sent a gift but couldn't bring myself to attend. Even skipped a one year old's birthday party for the same reason. Yesterday saw another pregnancy announcement on Facebook. This morning my brother (who just got married about a month ago) mentioned that they are NTNP, and I know I will just be absolutely heartbroken if they get pregnant first. I really hope that is not a situation I end up having to deal with. I would of course have to try to be happy for them, but I feel like a little part of me would die inside...

DH said that for some reason he just has a feeling we won't get pregnant this year. I hope he says that just to not get his hopes up, but it really gets me down. Trying my best to stay positive.


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## OnErth&InHvn

id 100% take up FREE IF care of any kind!! Just for an u/s is $300 here.


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## BelleNuit

Lucy, my brother is getting married next month and I am absolutely terrified they will get pregnant before us. His fiance already has 2 kids (6 and 7 yrs old) with learning disabilities and mental health issues. My brother and his fiance have mental health issues themselves, which his fiance refuses to get help for. I honestly can't imagine 2 people more ill prepared to have another child. They can barely manage the 2 that they have. I would be terrified for them if they had a child for all those reasons, but I would feel absolutely LIVID if they got pregnant easily and I couldn't. We would be able to offer a safe, stable, loving and healthy home and yet it doesn't seem like it will happen for us. I'm feeling a lot of anger these days, must have back tracked into that stage of grieving again. 

Lucy I really do think you're likely to get pregnant this year. It might just take a little extra help. I hope all of us will get pregnant this year. We've done our time


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Nore - sorry about the bfn but it's still early! Job offer sounds exciting! And for free IVF I'd say it's totally worth it! But hopefully you won't even need to take advantage of that! Would it be near your DH's family?
> 
> BFN again this morning. 10dpo / 11dpiui. Sick as a dog...had to call in sick from work. This sucks! What are the chances that I get the flu two cycles in a row right around implantation time?! Ugh!

I know its still early, it just feels like its not this month either, all the symptoms seems to come from the meds anyway .. Nothing much, but still, haha :) 

It will be close but not too close. Otherwise I would have said no, haha.. they are not my cup of tea. They would probably say the reason we are not yet pregnant is because we had vaccines etc. wouldn't handle too much of mother in law, haha :)



BelleNuit said:


> Steph I can relate to that sense of bitterness. That is the hardest part I think. I just can't be happy for other people's pregnancies right now. I honestly feel like a terrible person for it, but I've decided to just give myself permission for feeling this way. We are going through something incredibly difficult and can't help how we feel about it.
> 
> Nore, what an unexpected turn of events! But that certainly sounds exciting! I must admit, the prospect of free IVF would weigh heavily on my mind in that situation. Sorry about your BFN, there is still time for it to go positive!
> 
> Same with you Ask, 10 dpo is pretty early on and there is still time for a positive to show up! Some ladies don't even implant until 10-12 dpo! Sorry that you are feeling so sick! Your temps are off the wall high so I can imagine that you aren't feeling to well!

I hope it will, but it certainly doesn't feel like it..



OnErth&InHvn said:


> id 100% take up FREE IF care of any kind!! Just for an u/s is $300 here.

Oh.. the only downside: he would be paid less.. almost enough to cover 1 ivf per year :/ 

OnEarth, thats super expensive, wooooah... we paid 12900thb (375 usd) for IUI + 3/4 ultrasound + clomid + trigger +progesterone + bloodtest... But I did go to another dr before who was much more expensive!


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Lucy, my brother is getting married next month and I am absolutely terrified they will get pregnant before us. His fiance already has 2 kids (6 and 7 yrs old) with learning disabilities and mental health issues. My brother and his fiance have mental health issues themselves, which his fiance refuses to get help for. I honestly can't imagine 2 people more ill prepared to have another child. They can barely manage the 2 that they have. I would be terrified for them if they had a child for all those reasons, but I would feel absolutely LIVID if they got pregnant easily and I couldn't. We would be able to offer a safe, stable, loving and healthy home and yet it doesn't seem like it will happen for us. I'm feeling a lot of anger these days, must have back tracked into that stage of grieving again.
> 
> Lucy I really do think you're likely to get pregnant this year. It might just take a little extra help. I hope all of us will get pregnant this year. We've done our time

I cant speak specifically to them but i do know having 1 child, letting alone multiple with special needs can make it seem to the outside world like youre losing your sh*t. All 3 of mine have SN in some way. It makes life hard. Id gladly welcome another baby in the mix. 

DS has ADHD and Defiant Disorder
DD1 has Bipolar and Anxiety
DD2 has Attachment disorder and Sensory Disorder

So I have 1 child who is attached at my hip covering her ears at the hand dryer, while one is freaking out her sister didnt use enough soap all while the other one is staring at the butterfly on the wall ignoring me to wipe his butt.

Its hard!


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## Ask4joy

That's a good deal, Nore...I paid $500 for unmonitored IUI (no ultrasounds or trigger).

My HSG back in December cost me $1000. And I had to pay a $200 office visit just to have my initial consult with my RE. My insurance wants NOTHING to do with any sort of fertility treatment / diagnosis.

Belle - that is a little scary. I have a friend who has struggled with alcoholism and serious mental health issues since we were in our early teens who decided at the age of 31 to do IUI with donor sperm and be a single mom. She got pregnant first try but miscarried and then got pregnant again second try and now has a 2 year old. She continues to relapse and recently lost her job. I worry about her child a lot.

Earth - yes, you have your hands full! But like you said, you still want another so it must all be worth it! :)


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## OnErth&InHvn

Yeah that was $300 for u/s, i dont remember how much the office visit was or bloodwork. Not including anything else. The RE ended up being a doodle anyway. 

OOP now on my own, it is cheap. Trigger was $50ish, Clomid/FE was $50ish, Bloodwork is $50. I cant get an u/s or see a dr or do IUI but those ladies that do at home IUI are making me wonder if we should try it at some point!


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## BelleNuit

Hey Earth, I can appreciate it looking like you are losing you're shit when you have a SN child. Its not the fact that they already have SN children that makes me think they are inept parents. Its the fact that their mother ignores them and takes little interest in them. It's the fact that they already have a strained relationship with each other. They constantly fight with each other and she belittles my brother. Its downright emotionally abusive what she does to him. On top of it all my brother has serious MH issues for which he is receiving the appropriate care. That said he is low functioning and will require supports to be an effective parent. Supports that his fiance refuses to use. I worry about them as it is and do not believe they have the resources (emotionally, mentally, financially, etc.) to bring another child into the mix. 

I have asked my brother on multiple occasions if this is the life he wants. He feels like he owes her I think. A couple years ago he attempted suicide (and spent over a month in ICU on life support). She was the one who found him and took him to the hospital. Despite the fact that she treats him like garbage I think he feels like he owes her his life. I worry about them as a couple and it would be so much worse if there was another child in the mix.


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## steph1607

My word, sometimes I am so grateful for the NHS. So far all we've had to pay has been £8 something each time we've been prescribed Norethisterone, Clomid etc. some areas offer up to 3 rounds of IVF on the NHS too, but hopefully it won't come to that.

Belle and Lucy, you are both right, I think we are entitled to feel crap sometimes. DH is an incredibly positive person in all aspects of life which is a great trait, but sometimes I have to remind him that it's okay if I feel down, he doesn't necessarily need to try and 'cheer me up'. Grieving is allowed!


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## BelleNuit

I am envious of the NHS coverage, not gonna lie!

I paid 300 for my HSG, my IUI is 400 plus the cost of cycle monitoring which is 300. IVF will cost between 9000-12000 depending on the cost of meds. Where I live basic infertility testing is covered, but as I am seeing a private clinic nothing (aside the cost of seeing the doctor) is covered. The benefit of the private clinic is I can receive the treatments whenever I want them. With the public clinic there is a lower cost but a much longer wait. It would probably take me 6 months to even be seen for an initial consult at the public clinic because I am under 30 and have unexplained infertility. I would be seen as a low priority. Last I heard the waitlist for IVF at the public clinic was up to a year for people like me. So we'll pay more and get the treatment we want when we want it


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## steph1607

Where do you live Belle?

We were pleasantly surprised actually because usually for a referral for something like this you could expect to wait a good few months just for an appointment, but we were referred somewhere which is half NHS and half private, so even our wait for the NHS half was really quick, only a few weeks.


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## BelleNuit

I live in western Canada. There are some Canadian provinces that cover fertility treatments, but where I live unfortunately they don't.


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, sounds like you know exactly how I feel. I should mention it is my younger brother too. Granted his wife is older than me (32) and she feels like her biological clock is ticking, but we have been married 3 years and they have been married one month. I just need a BFP before I find out about theirs. I don't care if we are pregnant at the same time, I just can't bear to find out that they are if we aren't. When they got engaged I kept envisioning myself being pregnant at their wedding. Now it's past that and still no end in sight.

This morning my brother mentioned that they weren't trying yet and I blurted out "Don't". Then I added quickly, "give yourselves some time first". I know they will be great parents, I just want to be able to be truly happy for them.

In your case, yikes, I am sorry. That's quite a tricky situation. Let's hope we both get our BFP's ASAP!


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## BelleNuit

I totally get it Lucy! My brother had a long engagement. When they first announced I honestly thought that we would already have a baby by the time they got married HAHA, or at the very least be pregnant. If I got pregnant this cycle we would find out on the day of their wedding. I would be about 12 dpo by that point and would test so that I knew I could safely drink. I'm not holding my breath. 

In addition to all of the other reasons their having a baby would make me nervous, I would absolutely hate hate hate it if they got pregnant before me lol. I also would care less if we were pregnant at the same time. I just don't think I could tolerate it if she was pregnant (someone whom I don't believe should have another child) and I wasn't. 

I know how terrible I sound, but I truly don't even care.


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## LAR83

I understand ya'll. DH came home from hanging out with some friends last week. One of the couples got married not very long ago and recently bought a house. I asked how they were doing and he said "good," nothing else. I said, "she isn't pregnant yet?" I figured she would be. DH said that actually she did just announce that she was pregnant, but he wasn't planning to share that with me unless I asked because he didn't want to upset me. I said.. "that stuff doesn't upset me." It didn't upset me to hear she was pregnant and often I don't get upset by pregnancy announcements, but then DH reminded me, "when your brother announced his wife was pregnant you were bawling." I was like "oohh yea, I forgot about that." Something about it being my younger brother tore me to bits because I felt like I should be first. Their kid just turned one and they are great parents. Belle, it would piss me off even more if it was like your brother's situation!


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## rickyandlucy

BelleNuit said:


> I totally get it Lucy! My brother had a long engagement. When they first announced I honestly thought that we would already have a baby by the time they got married HAHA, or at the very least be pregnant. If I got pregnant this cycle we would find out on the day of their wedding. I would be about 12 dpo by that point and would test so that I knew I could safely drink. I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> In addition to all of the other reasons their having a baby would make me nervous, I would absolutely hate hate hate it if they got pregnant before me lol. I also would care less if we were pregnant at the same time. I just don't think I could tolerate it if she was pregnant (someone whom I don't believe should have another child) and I wasn't.
> 
> I know how terrible I sound, but I truly don't even care.

You don't sound terrible to me at all. You sound exactly _like_ me, lol. I was testing all the way up until the day of their wedding. I was 13 DPO that day, and BFN that morning. I asked DH if he thought we might still be pregnant. He said no. I went ahead and drank, had myself a good time. Glad I did, because two days later AF arrived. :cry:


----------



## rickyandlucy

LAR83 said:


> I understand ya'll. DH came home from hanging out with some friends last week. One of the couples got married not very long ago and recently bought a house. I asked how they were doing and he said "good," nothing else. I said, "she isn't pregnant yet?" I figured she would be. DH said that actually she did just announce that she was pregnant, but he wasn't planning to share that with me unless I asked because he didn't want to upset me. I said.. "that stuff doesn't upset me." It didn't upset me to hear she was pregnant and often I don't get upset by pregnancy announcements, but then DH reminded me, "when your brother announced his wife was pregnant you were bawling." I was like "oohh yea, I forgot about that." Something about it being my younger brother tore me to bits because I felt like I should be first. Their kid just turned one and they are great parents. Belle, it would piss me off even more if it was like your brother's situation!

Yeah, it makes me sad to see pregnancy announcements, but it really depends on who it is. I saw one yesterday on FB, and it sucks but it is what it is. But if it were my brother I would definitely bawl. Really hoping it doesn't come to that.


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## BelleNuit

I agree, those pregnancy announcements from people who you are closest to seem to hurt the most for some reason. I think because we want to be happy for them, but it still hurts so we are conflicted. With anyone else who I don't know well I can happily begrudge them, block them on facebook and go on my way haha

I don't know what I would do without you ladies! You always make me feel so much better about things.


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## OnErth&InHvn

My problem is the announcement of pregnancy, not the being around them. Only 1 person ( my BFFs sister) did i have a problem being around and only 1 baby was i around and i needed to go hide in a corner. 

Even some BFP posts on here, i open it and my heart sinks.


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## BelleNuit

I know what you mean Earth. I'm happy for people on here who get their bfps, but it hurts in a way too because I feel like I'm losing a friend. There are a number of friends that I have made on here who have already gone on and have had their babies. Meanwhile I'm still trying. I've been the "last person standing" on some threads already which is super sucky


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> I know what you mean Earth. I'm happy for people on here who get their bfps, but it hurts in a way too because I feel like I'm losing a friend. There are a number of friends that I have made on here who have already gone on and have had their babies. Meanwhile I'm still trying. I've been the "last person standing" on some threads already which is super sucky

Yep i get that feeling too. like youre down to the last few people and then WHAM, the thread is dead. I dont want everyone to lag behind with me or be stuck either. 

Sometimes I feel like people dont want to see or hear from us because we are doom and gloom. Im more than IF. :hugs:


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## rickyandlucy

OnErth&InHvn said:


> My problem is the announcement of pregnancy, not the being around them. Only 1 person ( my BFFs sister) did i have a problem being around and only 1 baby was i around and i needed to go hide in a corner.
> 
> Even some BFP posts on here, i open it and my heart sinks.


Oh yeah, been there. 2 cycles ago, I had a particularly hard time coping with AF's arrival. Lots of tears. The very next day I had to go to my future sis in law's bridal shower. Cried the whole way there. Then I get there, and her cousin brought her baby girl. Adorable, beautiful baby. I spent most of the party trying not to cry. I wanted to smile and be happy but I felt like I was dying inside.

I posted this on the TWW thread but not here; I often dream more than usual during the TWW, but the last couple of nights they have been even more unusual and vivid. Last night I had my first ever dream about getting a BFP. I know it is more than likely wishful thinking, but I still can't help but wonder...

After that I also a nightmare about my brother dying. That one had me freaked out. I woke up in a panic. Not cool!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

rickyandlucy said:
 

> Oh yeah, been there. 2 cycles ago, I had a particularly hard time coping with AF's arrival. Lots of tears. The very next day I had to go to my future sis in law's bridal shower. Cried the whole way there. Then I get there, and her cousin brought her baby girl. Adorable, beautiful baby. I spent most of the party trying not to cry. I wanted to smile and be happy but I felt like I was dying inside.
> 
> I posted this on the TWW thread but not here; I often dream more than usual during the TWW, but the last couple of nights they have been even more unusual and vivid. Last night I had my first ever dream about getting a BFP. I know it is more than likely wishful thinking, but I still can't help but wonder...
> 
> After that I also a nightmare about my brother dying. That one had me freaked out. I woke up in a panic. Not cool!

I just had a pregnancy dream too! Mine was that the vet called with our dogs bloodwork and they said " everything is fine but youre pregnant!" and I said id be like 6wks, what is my level? and they said "92".


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## rickyandlucy

OnErth&InHvn said:


> I just had a pregnancy dream too! Mine was that the vet called with our dogs bloodwork and they said " everything is fine but youre pregnant!" and I said id be like 6wks, what is my level? and they said "92".

That is funny, lol! Let's hope that our bodies are trying to tell us something and not just teasing us, lol. Fx!


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## rickyandlucy

BelleNuit said:


> I know what you mean Earth. I'm happy for people on here who get their bfps, but it hurts in a way too because I feel like I'm losing a friend. There are a number of friends that I have made on here who have already gone on and have had their babies. Meanwhile I'm still trying. I've been the "last person standing" on some threads already which is super sucky

It totally does feel like losing a friend. I get that 100%. And some of it I know I do to myself by isolating myself, but I can't help it. Self preservation I suppose.


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## BelleNuit

rickyandlucy said:


> BelleNuit said:
> 
> 
> I know what you mean Earth. I'm happy for people on here who get their bfps, but it hurts in a way too because I feel like I'm losing a friend. There are a number of friends that I have made on here who have already gone on and have had their babies. Meanwhile I'm still trying. I've been the "last person standing" on some threads already which is super sucky
> 
> It totally does feel like losing a friend. I get that 100%. And some of it I know I do to myself by isolating myself, but I can't help it. Self preservation I suppose.Click to expand...

Yes I know its mostly my own fault that I have lost touch with people on here. It is completely self preservation. I hope that since some of them have been through it too that they'll understand. But I wonder if they really do or not. Oh well, guess it can't be helped. 



OnErth&InHvn said:


> BelleNuit said:
> 
> 
> I know what you mean Earth. I'm happy for people on here who get their bfps, but it hurts in a way too because I feel like I'm losing a friend. There are a number of friends that I have made on here who have already gone on and have had their babies. Meanwhile I'm still trying. I've been the "last person standing" on some threads already which is super sucky
> 
> Yep i get that feeling too. like youre down to the last few people and then WHAM, the thread is dead. I dont want everyone to lag behind with me or be stuck either.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like people dont want to see or hear from us because we are doom and gloom. Im more than IF. :hugs:Click to expand...

I like that, we are all more than just IF. I do often feel like I'm the doom and gloom person crushing dreams of an easy bfp left right and centre :p 

I tend to get pretty vivid dreams during the TWW, but haven't had a pregnancy dream in awhile now. I think a lot of it was just wish fulfillment dreaming for me. Those dreams are hard because you really believe you are pregnant for a few moments and just that feeling of elation... its pretty intense. Hopefully we'll all to get experience that in real life at some point.


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## OnErth&InHvn

i POAS because its CD88 and why not? BFN. No big deal. 

In other news, nothing exciting. Its been in the 70s here and nice. :shipw:


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## Ask4joy

I feel ya, ladies...I was a mess when my step-sister announced on Christmas Eve (and she was only 7 weeks). She's 5-6 years younger than me and got married the same month as me and it just killed me that she got pregnant first. I snapped at my mom who was being very insensitive about it when she knew I had just finished 3 rounds of clomid and an HSG. I've already decided I won't go to her baby shower unless I'm already pregnant. It will be too painful.

That being said I think I'll feel pretty happy for any of you that get your BFP. When my best friend got her BFP after 8 failed IUIs and her first IVF after 4-5 years of trying for her 2nd child I was so happy. I think when you've seen someone struggle it gives you hope when you see the light at the end of their tunnel...hope that it can happen for you too.

So I just paid up on my recent fertility bills...we've already spent over $2000 on fertility related expenses (more if you add in pregnancy and ovulation tests, pre-seed, etc)! And we've only done 1 round of IUI. Here's hoping DH gets an even better paying job and health insurance soon (although I haven't talked to anyone in Ohio who's health insurance covered IVF). His re-scheduled interview is in 30 mins.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> I feel ya, ladies...I was a mess when my step-sister announced on Christmas Eve (and she was only 7 weeks). She's 5-6 years younger than me and got married the same month as me and it just killed me that she got pregnant first. I snapped at my mom who was being very insensitive about it when she knew I had just finished 3 rounds of clomid and an HSG. I've already decided I won't go to her baby shower unless I'm already pregnant. It will be too painful.
> 
> That being said I think I'll feel pretty happy for any of you that get your BFP. When my best friend got her BFP after 8 failed IUIs and her first IVF after 4-5 years of trying for her 2nd child I was so happy. I think when you've seen someone struggle it gives you hope when you see the light at the end of their tunnel...hope that it can happen for you too.
> 
> So I just paid up on my recent fertility bills...we've already spent over $2000 on fertility related expenses (more if you add in pregnancy and ovulation tests, pre-seed, etc)! And we've only done 1 round of IUI. Here's hoping DH gets an even better paying job and health insurance soon (although I haven't talked to anyone in Ohio who's health insurance covered IVF). His re-scheduled interview is in 30 mins.

Im in ohio. :D 

Im not an expert but it seems they are more willing to cover IUI than IVF. I COULD be wrong because we havent looked into it. ( IVF). My BFFs sister is a nurse at the hospital and they only covered a part of her IUI.


----------



## rickyandlucy

Ask4joy said:


> I feel ya, ladies...I was a mess when my step-sister announced on Christmas Eve (and she was only 7 weeks). She's 5-6 years younger than me and got married the same month as me and it just killed me that she got pregnant first. I snapped at my mom who was being very insensitive about it when she knew I had just finished 3 rounds of clomid and an HSG. I've already decided I won't go to her baby shower unless I'm already pregnant. It will be too painful.
> 
> That being said I think I'll feel pretty happy for any of you that get your BFP. When my best friend got her BFP after 8 failed IUIs and her first IVF after 4-5 years of trying for her 2nd child I was so happy. I think when you've seen someone struggle it gives you hope when you see the light at the end of their tunnel...hope that it can happen for you too.
> 
> So I just paid up on my recent fertility bills...we've already spent over $2000 on fertility related expenses (more if you add in pregnancy and ovulation tests, pre-seed, etc)! And we've only done 1 round of IUI. Here's hoping DH gets an even better paying job and health insurance soon (although I haven't talked to anyone in Ohio who's health insurance covered IVF). His re-scheduled interview is in 30 mins.

Ditto, I will be absolutely over the moon thrilled for any of you to get a BFP! I really am itching to see someone on here get one! We know what we have all gone through to get there. You all deserve it! And it will also mean that there is hope for me, lol!

I think the announcements that bother me most me are the ones who weren't trying, the ones who seem oblivious to everything some of us go through. I don't really have anyone in my life that can relate. Seems everyone I know got pregnant easily. My mom, my sister, my friends. They know my struggle and they support me as best they can, but it's not the same. Grateful for all of you here!

It is amazing how expensive it can all get. DH told me he doesn't want me to worry about the money. But it is scary. I paid out of pocket for the clomid, so I worry about what is to come now that we have been referred to an RE. Trying to keep the faith though.

Baby dust to all!
:dust:


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## Ask4joy

I saw that, Earth! It's been so beautiful out and I'm over here falling apart with a temp of 101! I think if you work for a hospital you do get a discount (when I did my IUI at the Cleveland clinic they asked if I was a clinic employee). 

Rickyandlucy - money comes and goes...I just keep telling myself that we will figure it out! Right now I have a little more than half the cost of IVF saved. My clinic told me it's $15,000 and I have $9000 set aside so far just in case. Not dipping into that for IUI or anything else.


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> I saw that, Earth! It's been so beautiful out and I'm over here falling apart with a temp of 101! I think if you work for a hospital you do get a discount (when I did my IUI at the Cleveland clinic they asked if I was a clinic employee).
> 
> Rickyandlucy - money comes and goes...I just keep telling myself that we will figure it out! Right now I have a little more than half the cost of IVF saved. My clinic told me it's $15,000 and I have $9000 set kaside so far just in case. Not dipping into that for IUI or anything else.

Would you consider going somewhere else for ivf? I mean, what you have (9000 dollars -309000 thb) might go further elsewhere. Ivf in Thailand could be around 150-200 000 thb (4400 -6000 USD), maybe even less. I haven't really looked into the ivf prices yet, and now that we probably will be leaving soon I guess I won't need to. 

Woke up to yet another strange temp thingy :
05:00 36.47
07:30: 36.84

The other days it has been pretty "easy", with 36.68 then 36.72.. I might also have the o date wrong, it's all a bit confusing with the trigger shot, but maybe I o-ed the day I got the trigger? (cd13). I had to discard the temp rise on CD14 as Dr told me it was expected but didn't mean I ovulated.. Confusing :nope:

And I totally get the whole deal about it being difficult to accept others bfps. Strangely enough I wasn't upset when I learned that sister in law got pregnant on the pill.. Maybe it's because I have three friends here in bkk all ttc long time.. Well, one of them not long time, but she is 38 and two years ago she had ovarian cancer so until this year she was on treatment and didn't have her period at all and obviously no chance of trying.. She is all new to this so I feel like I'm taking her under my wing explaining stuff etc :) she was told by her mother that she would most likely become pregnant on first or second try, which made me really mad because she felt something was wrong with her when she didn't. I told her that the chances unfortunately was a little lower than what her mother told her, I gave her my bbt thermometer I had ordered by mistake etc. She is Thai and recently went to Hong Kong to pray as she hopes it helps. If she gets her bfp this month then I'll schedule in a trip too ;)


----------



## LoveCousar

Hey ladies! I'm sorry I had another disappearing act my mother was admitted to the hospital. I've been super busy & stressed bc of it. The only good thing is that I haven't been symptom spotting during this TWW. On top of that, my insurance was cut on accident & takes up to 30 days to be cut back on so I didn't get my progesterone done this month to see my numbers for ovulation. I know I'm pretty much out....

How are you gals? Any testing coming up with anyone or no POAS?


----------



## steph1607

rickyandlucy said:


> Ask4joy said:
> 
> 
> I feel ya, ladies...I was a mess when my step-sister announced on Christmas Eve (and she was only 7 weeks). She's 5-6 years younger than me and got married the same month as me and it just killed me that she got pregnant first. I snapped at my mom who was being very insensitive about it when she knew I had just finished 3 rounds of clomid and an HSG. I've already decided I won't go to her baby shower unless I'm already pregnant. It will be too painful.
> 
> That being said I think I'll feel pretty happy for any of you that get your BFP. When my best friend got her BFP after 8 failed IUIs and her first IVF after 4-5 years of trying for her 2nd child I was so happy. I think when you've seen someone struggle it gives you hope when you see the light at the end of their tunnel...hope that it can happen for you too.
> 
> So I just paid up on my recent fertility bills...we've already spent over $2000 on fertility related expenses (more if you add in pregnancy and ovulation tests, pre-seed, etc)! And we've only done 1 round of IUI. Here's hoping DH gets an even better paying job and health insurance soon (although I haven't talked to anyone in Ohio who's health insurance covered IVF). His re-scheduled interview is in 30 mins.
> 
> Ditto, I will be absolutely over the moon thrilled for any of you to get a BFP! I really am itching to see someone on here get one! We know what we have all gone through to get there. You all deserve it! And it will also mean that there is hope for me, lol!
> 
> I think the announcements that bother me most me are the ones who weren't trying, the ones who seem oblivious to everything some of us go through. I don't really have anyone in my life that can relate. Seems everyone I know got pregnant easily. My mom, my sister, my friends. They know my struggle and they support me as best they can, but it's not the same. Grateful for all of you here!
> 
> It is amazing how expensive it can all get. DH told me he doesn't want me to worry about the money. But it is scary. I paid out of pocket for the clomid, so I worry about what is to come now that we have been referred to an RE. Trying to keep the faith though.
> 
> Baby dust to all!
> :dust:Click to expand...

YES, agreed - the ones who just casually say "oh dear silly us, we were trying to be so careful but now we're having a baby, whoops!" I know I should try to stop being so bitter all the time, but easier said than done.

Pretty sure the results of the CD21 blood tests I'm having later are going to show no O so I'm feeling a bit doom and gloom this morning.


----------



## rickyandlucy

Pretty sure I am out. Even my Ava showed a pretty drastic temp drop this morning. So I am pretty sure AF is on her way. And just to show that I am super smart, and basically guarantee her arrival, I wore white pants to work. Silly me, lol.

Belle, remember how I said we were going to try one more cycle before making an appt with the RE? I am about to say F that, lol. Guess AF staring you in the face has a way of changing things, lol.

I am also determined to quit testing before AF's due date. I know we all say this. But I am going to try really hard! I can't take all this heartbreak...


----------



## BelleNuit

Good for you Lucy. Seeing an RE is a step in the right direction. I bumped up IUI by a month because I'm getting to the end of my rope here as well. I also think not testing is a great plan. I was able to quit by telling myself that I wouldn't believe the negative result anyway and I was just wasting my money. Now I just wait for AF most months, unless there is a specific reason why I can't.

Love I'm sorry your mom is in hospital and that you've lost your insurance temporarily. Everything always seems to happen all at once!

Steph when are you doing your blood test? Even if you didn't O this month I have faith that they will get you O'ing eventually. Inducing ovulation seems to be one of the things REs are pretty good at. I wish they would figure things out for us unexplained ladies. 

Well finished up femara yesterday. We'll start BDing EOD starting tomorrow


----------



## Ask4joy

Nore - I'm not sure how I feel about going to another country for IVF. Unless it was English speaking. But I'm not sure much money would be saved after the cost of flights and staying in hotels for 2 weeks to a month. I should still shop around...though my clinic has the second highest success rate in the state and highest in my area. 

Love - so sorry about your mom. I hope she is doing better. And I hope the insurance situation is sorted out soon! What a hassle!

Lucy - sorry to hear you are feeling out. I'm feeling that way too. 11dpo and bfn. I'm so sick of all of this. I was hoping being sick was a precursor to getting a BFP but nope, I've just been lucky enough to get the flu 2 cycles in a row! Today I kinda feel like giving up on it all...it's just so exhausting. And you're right - testing early is such a bad idea yet I keep doing it. Last month was the only month I waited until I was late and got a faint BFP but short lived. :(

Belle - GL and have fun! Is this your 3rd round of femera? I'm thinking I might ask my RE to switch me to Femera next cycle.


----------



## rickyandlucy

Ask, been there, same thing happened to me last month. I came down with a nasty cold/flu thing the week of my brother's wedding. Was really hoping it meant a BFP was on the way. Nope. But it's still early for you, still could be!


----------



## BelleNuit

Ha, I had a really nasty cold in December and was convinced it meant I was on my way to a bfp. Been there too!

Yep this is my 3rd cycle of femara. I'm not holding my breath. I'm looking forward to seeing how the cycle monitoring goes next month with the femara. I'll be on the same dose as now.

Ugh, I wish mother nature would get it together, we've been having non stop snow all weekend and again today! We literally got a foot of wet heavy snow the other day. Its supposed to be friggen spring!


----------



## steph1607

Oh blimey, we had one evening of snow here back in January and the whole country came to a standstill! Had my blood test a couple of hours ago Belle so should probably phone the consultant in a few days, thanks for your positivity!


----------



## LoveCousar

Yea it sucks bad. I guess it just gives me another round to try new things out. I'm awaiting AF which I'm sure is on her way from the cramping I am experiencing. Just waiting on my temp to drop, which hasn't yet but I know its coming.

Snow? What country are you guys in? Is it winter over there?


----------



## steph1607

Keep positive Love :)

I'm in England so snow is pretty rare and always a massive deal. Belle is in Canada so probably not quite so rare!


----------



## Ask4joy

We got hit pretty hard in northern Ohio about a week and a half ago...that heavy, wet snow you're talking about Belle. Took down some trees. Then 2 days later it was 70 degrees! I think winter is officially over for us now. Hope yours is soon as well!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> We got hit pretty hard in northern Ohio about a week and a half ago...that heavy, wet snow you're talking about Belle. Took down some trees. Then 2 days later it was 70 degrees! I think winter is officially over for us now. Hope yours is soon as well!

well we do have weird weather in Ohio. :haha: 30 one day and 100 the next is quite common.


----------



## BelleNuit

Ya, I live in Canada so snow is definitely not unusual lol. Because I live in a nothern city we often get heavy snow during spring time instead of rain. I'm just feeling pretty done with it all already!

Also, I contacted the clinic in regards to the trigger and they said they'd do it for me, so that alleviates a lot of my worry right there!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

can i ask an off topic question? I dont want to post it and get 100 opinions, just a few good ones from you gals is enough!

If you have a credit card, can you explain to me ( because are new to it all) how you use it, pay it and dont have to rob peter to pay paul??

We have a card and we use it for groceries but i feel like the bill goes up and up despite making payments. Are we doing it wrong? Do you not use it unless you can pay it right off? Should i buy groceries every 2 weeks then so we can pay it off right then? 

Sorry, im sure its silly to ask but we need to rebuild DHs credit and #Adulting is HARD! :blush:


----------



## BelleNuit

Hey Earth, make sure that you make more than your minimum payment on the card. Generally minimal payments are just covering the interest and not any of the balance. I usually try to pay off whatever I put on the card that month plus a bit extra to cover some of the principal if I've racked up a bit of debt (easy to do with credit cards because its easy to forget at the end of the month what you put on it!). If you pay off whatever you put on the card within 3 weeks you won't pay interest on it. 

DH and I just put ourselves on a budget. I found we were really overspending at the grocery store (I would go in almost daily and pick up a couple things haha). Now we try to limit it to 1 visit to the grocery store a month. We've managed to save up a few thousand $$ since December just doing that!

Adulting is hard!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Hey Earth, make sure that you make more than your minimum payment on the card. Generally minimal payments are just covering the interest and not any of the balance. I usually try to pay off whatever I put on the card that month plus a bit extra to cover some of the principal if I've racked up a bit of debt (easy to do with credit cards because its easy to forget at the end of the month what you put on it!). If you pay off whatever you put on the card within 3 weeks you won't pay interest on it.
> 
> DH and I just put ourselves on a budget. I found we were really overspending at the grocery store (I would go in almost daily and pick up a couple things haha). Now we try to limit it to 1 visit to the grocery store a month. We've managed to save up a few thousand $$ since December just doing that!
> 
> Adulting is hard!

The minimum payment is $21. ( $9 this month thanks to cash back credits!). 
We do a budget every 2 weeks. Not a strict " you spent $2 at mcdonalds" kind but a " $100 is due for electricity" kind. 
Im interested to hear how you shop 1x a month!! How do you keep veggies and things fresh then?


----------



## LAR83

Belle, I had no idea you were in Canada.. thought you were in the US. How is the fertility insurance there?

OnErth, I racked up a lot of CC debt at one point, so now I make sure to pay off the entire amount on my CC by the due date every month. Or if I need to spend more money and can't afford to do that, I get the credit cards where you don't pay any interest for like 18 months or something and I pay at least the minimum every month and pay it off before it starts accumulating interest. I am pretty terrible at managing money but at least I know I am only paying what I bought and not interest. Back when I had a lot off CC debt, I transferred it to a no interest card. You have to pay a fee to transfer it but in the long run it could save you money.


----------



## LoveCousar

Before I say what I am going to say I want you ladies to know that you all have taught me soooo much during these times & understand the pain of feeling "left out" when you want something so much. I truly hope you all are blessed with your BFP's very soon & I will continue to pray for those with infertility <3 I just got my BFP on 5 different test a couple hours ago, unexpectedly, & just wanted to show you gals my appreciation before I go along. I will silently stalk every now & then to see how you all are doing but I prefer not to comment or update as I know the feeling of "wishing it was me". Good luck ladies & god bless!!! <3


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LoveCousar said:


> Before I say what I am going to say I want you ladies to know that you all have taught me soooo much during these times & understand the pain of feeling "left out" when you want something so much. I truly hope you all are blessed with your BFP's very soon & I will continue to pray for those with infertility <3 I just got my BFP on 5 different test a couple hours ago, unexpectedly, & just wanted to show you gals my appreciation before I go along. I will silently stalk every now & then to see how you all are doing but I prefer not to comment or update as I know the feeling of "wishing it was me". Good luck ladies & god bless!!! <3

well before you go, at least give us the details of what you did this cycle!!


----------



## BelleNuit

Earth, we end up using a lot of frozen veggies this way or we buy produce that we know will easily stay fresh for awhile (i.e. carrots, cabbage, apples, oranges, etc.). We are only 2 people so that does make it easier. Fresh produce is the one thing that I'll make an exception for. We'll go to the farmer's market every 2 weeks or so and stock up on fresh produce. 

Lar it varies depending on what province you live in. Across the entire country all doctors visits and fertility testing is covered. IVF is covered in Ontario and Quebec for a certain number of cycles, and Manitoba and New Brunswick offer tax credits for IVF. The rest of the provinces (aka where I live) you are on your own for any treatments. 

Congrats Love, can't say I'm at all surprised :) clomid is truly a miracle drug for pcos. I'd trade unexplained infertility for pcos any day as I'd probably already be pregnant by now haha. Good luck to you moving forward.


----------



## Ask4joy

Congrats Love! I'm truly happy for you! Belle is right - it was only a matter of time for you on clomid! How many dpo are you and did you test before today? Hoping I'm not out yet even though 11dpo and BFNs.

Belle - unexplained sucks! It's seriously tormenting not knowing why. Makes it very hard not to constantly research and obsess. :(


----------



## LoveCousar

What I did this cycle was:

*Took Vitex for the first 2 weeks of cycle
*Took Clomid 150 mg day 2-6
*Drank Pregnancy Tea almost every day before O
*Took Folic Acid every day
*Stressed a ton this cycle believe it or not
*Temp w/ Fertility Friend

That's all I did. Again, I wish you gals the best & hope that I see some more BFPS this month! <3


----------



## LoveCousar

Ask4joy said:


> Congrats Love! I'm truly happy for you! Belle is right - it was only a matter of time for you on clomid! How many dpo are you and did you test before today? Hoping I'm not out yet even though 11dpo and BFNs.
> 
> Belle - unexplained sucks! It's seriously tormenting not knowing why. Makes it very hard not to constantly research and obsess. :(

Ask - I tested every day seriously from 8 DPO until 14 DPO & I JUST got my BFP. I'm talking a real faint line. Surprisingly, I got a BFP on the Walmart cheapies before I did on FRER but I thought it was a bad batch so I didn't count it since the line was almost shadow-ish. Fertility Friend was truly my savior this month. I was literally googling symptoms like am I crazy? Because I know I had to be pregnant but no line was showing so keep hope & keep testing!


----------



## Ask4joy

That's encouraging Love! I've been using those Walmart cheapies too and last cycle got my BFP on them and they were still showing a line after the others faded out due to my CP. I used one today and saw a shadowy evap (super faint) but nothing on Wondfo...gonna hold out hope!

Happy & healthy 9 months!


----------



## BelleNuit

Ask I'm like 5 pages deep on google searches on "unexplained infertility" haha, not to mention all the variations of search terms I've made. We are on our 21st cycle but have had 18 good cycles that were well timed and confirmed O and still not one bfp. I'm honestly shocked because DH and I are both young and healthy and all our tests are good. I really hope the cycle monitoring shows that my lining really is just too thin so that nothing can implant. That would make sense to me as to why I've never ever had a bfp in all this time trying. Not to mention we used the withdrawal method of birth control for several years before ttc and never had a worry! If lining comes up normal I won't know what to think. 

and Love is right Ask you still have time to get that bfp! I don't know how you ladies keep testing daily! I think I'd lose my mind haha


----------



## Ask4joy

Belle - I hope the monitoring gives you some answers! DH keeps asking me to stop researching and stop testing early because I AM going mad! I must be some kind of masochist!


----------



## LAR83

Congratulations Love! Best wishes for a healthy pregnancy!

Belle, if they do find the lining is still thin, do you know what other options you have to try and fix it?


----------



## BelleNuit

Thanks Ask, I could tolerate another BFN if I at least got some answers. I may have a breakdown though if its a BFN and we're no further ahead and still just as confused as to why it's not working.

Lar if its a thin lining they may suggest injectible meds and IUI to thicken or estrace estrogen supplementation. I think I would be okay with trying a couple more natural cycles with estrace since I already do ovulate on my own. If that didn't work we'd jump back into IUI and use injectibles. But who knows, we'll have more info after next cycle I guess either way


----------



## LAR83

I was also reading that IVF can help explain a lot of cases of unexplained infertility. Hopefully none of us get that far, but I thought that was interesting. There very well may be causes of our infertility that aren't very apparent, but upon closer examination may become apparent.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Thanks Ask, I could tolerate another BFN if I at least got some answers. I may have a breakdown though if its a BFN and we're no further ahead and still just as confused as to why it's not working.
> 
> Lar if its a thin lining they may suggest injectible meds and IUI to thicken or estrace estrogen supplementation. I think I would be okay with trying a couple more natural cycles with estrace since I already do ovulate on my own. If that didn't work we'd jump back into IUI and use injectibles. But who knows, we'll have more info after next cycle I guess either way

what does the estrace do? 



LAR83 said:


> I was also reading that IVF can help explain a lot of cases of unexplained infertility. Hopefully none of us get that far, but I thought that was interesting. There very well may be causes of our infertility that aren't very apparent, but upon closer examination may become apparent.

I know my IF started with my cyst. Im the only member of both sides of my family to be 31 still with reproductive organs. Everyone else gets a hysterectomy by now. 
We wont/cant do IUI or IVF.


----------



## BelleNuit

Ya I was thinking that too Lar. Luckily IVF does seem to be very effective for unexplained (typically amongst a clinics highest success rates), which makes up for the more dismal success rates of IUI. So if any of us do have to use IVF I feel very strongly that we will be successful.

DH and I have made a budget to save up monthly for IVF just in case. At this rate I think we'd start IVF in January. There is a lot to get through this year first though before IVF. So I'm just going to focus on getting through it one step at a time and keep saving just in case.


----------



## LAR83

I am nervous that my hypothyroidism may be interfering with my ability to get pregnant. When Ask originally asked what my situation was, I didn't even mention that because it didn't occur to me that it could be a problem. I know that thyroid issues can make it more difficult for people to conceive and more likely for people to miscarry, but since my levels were so stable and my doctor told me it wasn't the reason I was having difficulty conceiving, I kept taking the meds and put it out of my mind. Now I am concerned since my levels recently changed and went out of range. Pregnancies can cause thyroid levels to change even early on, so I am afraid that I could get CPs before I even get a chance to test my levels and adjust my medication accordingly. I am hoping the recent increase in my medication will help, but I am not feeling very hopeful right now. I also have doubts that the medication increase had enough time to work in order for this cycle to be successful. I would be extremely surprised with a BFP this cycle. In my mind I am already on to IUI #4.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

I am getting progesterone on Friday! ( well if everything goes right). Crinone 8%. So that solves the issue if its a p4 issue. 3 boxes, so it wont be long term but a few cycles to see if it makes a difference. 

:thumbup:


----------



## steph1607

Congratulations Love :) That is wonderful news and given me renewed positivity!


----------



## rickyandlucy

Congrats Love! So happy for you, it's about time someone got a BFP on this board!

Unfortunately I am unable to add to the good news...AF got my this morning :cry:


----------



## steph1607

Sorry to hear that Lucy. Are you still going to try and get an RE appointment this cycle?


----------



## rickyandlucy

I think I am going to go ahead and make an appt, but schedule it for the next cycle. So at least if this new cycle also ends in a BFN I will already have the next step in place.


----------



## BelleNuit

Sorry Lucy, AF is such a drag. I think it's smart to book an appt to the RE. 

I had another night sweat last night. Those are just all kinds of awful. I think the femara has plummeted my estrogen into the pits.


----------



## steph1607

Eurgh, I had night sweats a few times when I was on the 5 days of Clomid. Really grim aren't they.


----------



## BelleNuit

They're just gross. The strange thing is, I never get the night sweats while I'm actually taking the pills! I've been getting them about once a week and they're a bit more frequent in the TWW before AF


----------



## steph1607

Oh! That is strange.. I'm the opposite, only seemed to have them when taking them, but I've been off 16 days and nothing since. Do they give you any other side effects?


----------



## BelleNuit

My first cycle taking them I struggled with dizziness and nausea, but I really haven't had any other SE since that first cycle, aside from all the night sweats. My E2 levels were borderline in the summer (they were in the normal range but only with 1-2 points to spare), so I wonder if the femara has dropped my E2 overall to the point where now I'm having night sweats even when not on the pills. And if my E2 is low it makes me think that my lining is probably hooped as well lol. I'm really looking forward to having that monitored cycle next month.


----------



## steph1607

Isn't is just so much fun when you take a drug to improve one thing, but it ends up creating yet another issue! Yes, monitoring next cycle will definitely only be a good thing, Belle.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

hmm, i guess most people take Crinone twice a day? I was going to start with 1 and see how my numbers look at my p4 test.


----------



## Norelisa

E2 levels?

Crinone, is that progesterone? I take mine once a day, at bedtime. Yesterday I took it after dinner and by 9pm I was asleep! gosh! I was told it would make me sleepy but I didn't realise how bad until I took it too early at 8! :)


We are starting slowly to prepare for the move back to Europe.. But before that we managed to fit in a little vacation next month to Koh Lipe island :) Hubby kind of wants to do another iui before leaving, but after my calculations we might be away up until CD13 which will make it difficult to monitor.. sigh. have to start looking into treatment in France now.. (I speak and read French, so it's not too bad).


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Norelisa said:


> E2 levels?
> 
> Crinone, is that progesterone? I take mine once a day, at bedtime. Yesterday I took it after dinner and by 9pm I was asleep! gosh! I was told it would make me sleepy but I didn't realise how bad until I took it too early at 8! :)
> 
> 
> We are starting slowly to prepare for the move back to Europe.. But before that we managed to fit in a little vacation next month to Koh Lipe island :) Hubby kind of wants to do another iui before leaving, but after my calculations we might be away up until CD13 which will make it difficult to monitor.. sigh. have to start looking into treatment in France now.. (I speak and read French, so it's not too bad).

e2 is estrogen checked CD3

yep its Progesterone.


----------



## Ask4joy

I take plain "progesterone" (the bottle says it's the same as prometrium). RE instructed to use as a suppository twice a day, so that's 200mg twice a day. I'm 12dpo and NO spotting. Didn't test this morning but temp was down a bit (FF did not include my last 3 temps as I marked them as fevers). I am glad the progesterone is holding my lining up...sometimes I start spotting 5 days before AF! I think I'm supposed to take through 14dpo and test and if it's negative stop...might wait until 15dpo just to be safe. A lot of women get AF before they stop but some won't until stopping.

Night sweats are the worst! I get them when I take the pills but they seem to go away after that.


----------



## BelleNuit

Ask its good to know that the progesterone seems to be holding your lining in place. I'll have to ask my RE about that, I always spot before AF

I'm feeling inpatient and frustrated today. I just want to be fricken pregnant. Come on body cooperate with me here!


----------



## Ask4joy

I've been feeling sooo impatient lately. This morning I told DH I want to go straight to IVF because I can't take this anymore! If only I had a crystal ball that could tell me if IUI would lead to a viable pregnancy.


----------



## steph1607

With you both on the frustration side of things.

Woke up this morning with a sore throat and a bit sneezy, and with my mind taken over by thoughts of TTC my first thoughts were "oh wow, aren't flu-like symptoms a sign of pregnancy"... Then I remembered that four days ago I spent the day with my nephew and sister in law, both of whom have bad colds :(


----------



## BelleNuit

Ask IUI might not work the first shot for you, but I do have high hopes that it will work within 3 cycles for you!

Steph sorry to hear about the cold developing!

Well I'm CD 10 today so O should happen in 4 days based on history from the last couple cycles. Woke up with ewcm. Here we go again. Not going to lie the effort feels futile at this point.


----------



## Ask4joy

Yeah I thought the same Steph...but unfortunately I'm 13dpo and BFN. Uhgggg. I hate this. Thanks for the encouragement Belle! I need it!


----------



## steph1607

Belle I know it feels that way, but don't give up, none of us know when we are going to get lucky &#9825;

Rubbish isn't it Ask, I feel so crazy being thankful that I feel ill. Ridiculous.

Just phoned the clinic and my CD21 blood test results are in but they haven't been looked at by a doctor yet so I need to phone back tomorrow. Already given up hope this cycle I think. Just dreading going through it again and again.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Belle I know it feels that way, but don't give up, none of us know when we are going to get lucky &#9825;
> 
> Rubbish isn't it Ask, I feel so crazy being thankful that I feel ill. Ridiculous.
> 
> Just phoned the clinic and my CD21 blood test results are in but they haven't been looked at by a doctor yet so I need to phone back tomorrow. Already given up hope this cycle I think. Just dreading going through it again and again.

I have given up so many times but Nita ( here in the group) is like a little cheerleader! :yipee:


----------



## Ask4joy

I'm going nuts. I keep getting these super faint lines on all different tests except FRERs. Finally I decided to have DH take one as a comparison and it's stark white. Am I having another cp? I'd think FRERS would pick it up?


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> I'm going nuts. I keep getting these super faint lines on all different tests except FRERs. Finally I decided to have DH take one as a comparison and it's stark white. Am I having another cp? I'd think FRERS would pick it up?

The FRER arent as sensitive as they once were. Are the rest darker?


----------



## Ask4joy

The FRERs are total bfn... others have faint evap looking lines but not the one dh used!


----------



## BelleNuit

Sounds promising Ask! Guess you'll have to check again tomorrow


----------



## LAR83

yea.. i definitely don't think you are out either. why else would you get a faint line and dh didn't? maybe the frers aren't sensitive enough. it may just take a few more days. good luck!


----------



## Norelisa

Fingers crossed for you Ask! :)

Here it is not going the right way, haha.. Spotting started yesterday, PMS started too, feeling AF on her way, again... We are getting a bit frustrated now.. And we kind of wanted to do another IUI next cycle, but we will be away during next o ... so sigh.. getting tired of this sh*&.. Today hubby will hand in his resignation (unless he chckens out and wait until Monday). He told me of one of his colleagues who just got pregnant. they didnt even know each other when we started TTC!! grrrrr.. haha :)

Yup- emotional mess is the general feeling these days..


----------



## BelleNuit

Nore I can completely relate. I feel like a complete emotional wreck. Deciding to do IUI next cycle makes me excited but profoundly sad at the same time. I really do worry that I might never get pregnant. I am so tired of waiting and tired of trying, I can't imagine going another year or more. I haven't even ovulated yet and already feel as though I'm out. I'm just very emotional today :( All I want to do is cry. I want to blame it on the femara but my last pill was 3 days ago. I just feel broken

I'm really sorry you started to spot :( I really do want all of us to have babies.


----------



## BellaBoo0512

Hi ladies. Mind if I join in?

I'm on my first month of clomid cycle days 2-6 and today I am cd 17. Pretty sure I ovulated on Tuesday CD14 and have been cramping ever since. Is this a normal symptom of the clomid or is it a good sign?

Me and DH have been TTC #2 since January 2016 and these past few months since being under the fertility clinic, I seem to be more in tune with my body. 

It took 11 months to get pregnant with my son and I had a mc and a chemical pregnancy during that time. I only found out last summer that I have PCOS and was referred to the fertility clinic in December 2016. I've got my blood test on Monday to find out if I ovulated.

Hope it's ok for me to join in with you and I'm sending lots of baby dust to you all :flower:


----------



## steph1607

Welcome, Bella! 

Great news that you think you ovulated, as far as the cramping goes, I'm not entirely sure but I think anything and everything can be a side effect with the Clomid. If the cramping gets really bad I would obviously suggest contacting the clinic. Hope the blood results are positive :)

This cycle was my first with Clomid too, CD2-6. Just this second got off the phone with the clinic and I didn't ovulate so waiting for a call back from the doctor to see what I do next.


----------



## BellaBoo0512

steph1607 said:


> Welcome, Bella!
> 
> Great news that you think you ovulated, as far as the cramping goes, I'm not entirely sure but I think anything and everything can be a side effect with the Clomid. If the cramping gets really bad I would obviously suggest contacting the clinic. Hope the blood results are positive :)
> 
> This cycle was my first with Clomid too, CD2-6. Just this second got off the phone with the clinic and I didn't ovulate so waiting for a call back from the doctor to see what I do next.

Thanks Steph. I'm so new to all of this and just feel a bit lost. None of my friends have ever experienced fertility problems so I find it difficult to talk to them about it. The cramps just feel like they do when AF is due. I'm not 100% sure I ovulated but il be shocked if I didn't because of the way I have been feeling.

So sorry that you didn't OV this month :( how are you finding the clomid?
:hugs:


----------



## steph1607

Yes I have exactly that problem, nobody has gone through any of this and so of course they don't quite understand how difficult and all-consuming it can be. These forums are great to vent and everyone is so supportive. Plus, there will always be someone who has been there done that and can help you know what to expect etc. 

I didn't fine the Clomid too bad, a few night sweats during the five days I was taking it. I also have to take Norethisterone to kick start AF beforehand and both that and the Clomid can have side effects of bloating, weight gain, low mood etc. So I am already dreading the next cycle and having to go through constantly feeling like crap again :(


----------



## BellaBoo0512

steph1607 said:


> Yes I have exactly that problem, nobody has gone through any of this and so of course they don't quite understand how difficult and all-consuming it can be. These forums are great to vent and everyone is so supportive. Plus, there will always be someone who has been there done that and can help you know what to expect etc.
> 
> I didn't fine the Clomid too bad, a few night sweats during the five days I was taking it. I also have to take Norethisterone to kick start AF beforehand and both that and the Clomid can have side effects of bloating, weight gain, low mood etc. So I am already dreading the next cycle and having to go through constantly feeling like crap again :(

Aw yes, someone on another thread told me about this one so I thought I'd join in :) 

Sorry that the clomid have made you feel crappy. My consultant warned me of the symptoms when he gave them to be so I was a bit worried about taking them. I've had a few mood swings and that was about it until the cramping started. I usually get cramping around OV time but not every month (not sure if I OV every month though) I don't recall the cramping being as bad in previous months though.


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## Ask4joy

Calling RE for a blood test today. I think I'm going mad. Got a faint line on an FRER this morning right away but it didn't really seem to have color and kinda faded as it dried. Faint line on a blue dye but I don't really trust those. I'll post a pic of my FRER in pregnancy test forum if you want to take a look.

Will respond to everyone's posts later - rushing off to work!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Provera will be here in about 4d!!! Of course i wont start AF that day i take it but hot dog!! Ill be on cd96 then. :cry:

Then its on to 50mg clomid! :happydance:

-------
Ask, i looked, im not sure but im glad you got a bloodtest. 
----
Welcome to the group Bella. 
---
As for support, my BFFs sister had IF for years but thats it.


----------



## Norelisa

Welcome Bella :)

I am supposed to go in to do a blood test tomorrow morning, but got a feeling AF will show during the night.. sneaky.. Kinda feel a bit humiliating going in for a blood test when absolutely everything points towards a BFN (temp, experience from previous months, spotting, pms, light period pain and a bnf this morning too). 


Luckily I have discovered that I have a few friends here struggeling too, I also have two friends who adopted / waiting to get their adoptive baby. One who has done 4 cycles of iui already, and two others.. so in a sense lucky as can talk to someone about it.. But now it seems like we will be moving, and then I will have 0 friends :(


----------



## steph1607

Not out until AF arrives though Nor, fingers still crossed for you.

Got my CD21 results today- didn't O with the Clomid. Waiting for a call from the consultant on Monday to see if I have to up the dosage or what. Lovely start to the weekend.


----------



## Norelisa

steph1607 said:


> Not out until AF arrives though Nor, fingers still crossed for you.
> 
> Got my CD21 results today- didn't O with the Clomid. Waiting for a call from the consultant on Monday to see if I have to up the dosage or what. Lovely start to the weekend.

What does of clomid were you on? some people here have ovulated and gotten bfps after getting a higher dose!:hugs:


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## steph1607

I was 50mg CD2-6 so they might tell me to try again on that dose, or up it to 100 I guess


----------



## BelleNuit

Welcome Bella, I get ovulation cramps when taking femara. They can be surprisingly painful!

Ask those tests sound promising. I'm rooting for you!

Nore sorry that AF seems imminent :( and it sounds like next cycle will be a natural one due to moving?

Steph sorry you didn't O. It can take a couple tries to get the dosing right. I'm sure once you do start O'ing you'll conceive right away. That seems to be the pattern here.

CD 11 today, O is still a couple days away. OPK might be positive tomorrow afternoon. I still feel pretty checked out. 

Enjoy your weekend ladies!


----------



## Ask4joy

I'm counting myself out. Going to stop progesterone. Took a FRER after work after a long 8 hour hold (teachers have bladders of steel!) and BFN. Got a blood test but won't know the results until Monday but I know I'm not pregnant. The only reason AF hasn't showed is because I'm on progesterone and I don't want to delay it even longer. Plus once I run out of this prescription my insurance won't cover it and it's $300/30 days. The nurse told me to stay on it but that's because I said I had a possible faint positive this morning which obviously was some kind of evap because it disappeared and the one I just took was BFN along with a wondfo. I just want to move on to the next cycle. And have a glass of wine.


----------



## LAR83

ask, it sounds like you planning to stop the progesterone before you get the blood results?


----------



## Ask4joy

Yeah...I figure if I'm getting a bfn on FRER at 14dpo there's not much chance? Do you think that's a bad idea?


----------



## LAR83

well.. I don't want to judge. but I personally wouldn't want to stop until I was really sure. I have heard of plenty of people who got late BFPs, at 5 or 6 weeks (even people who with other pregnancies got early BFPs). And I would figure that if there was any chance I was pregnant I rather stay on it just in case, because the risk of coming off it would be greater than the frustration of possibly delaying my next cycle for a couple days. That's just me though. I definitely understand wanting to just go ahead and start the next cycle if you aren't pregnant. Sounds like a super frustrating spot to be in.


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## Ask4joy

Yeah I talked to DH and you're right. Gonna wait. Just don't want to O when I'm out of town for my cousin's wedding next month which very well might happen at this point in which case we will just have to do a natural cycle.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Plus once I run out of this prescription my insurance won't cover it and it's $300/30 days.

Ouch, id call around to see other prices


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## BelleNuit

Hang in their Ask. I know how hard it is to let yourself hope. I would probably want to do the same thing and just count myself out so that I didn't have to deal with the disappointment. We are here for you though!


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## Norelisa

Turns out that the blood test was not included in the iui package, they only told me after taking the blood so I told them I'm not gonna pay and that I think it was not cool not mentioning neither the price nor telling us it wasn't included(everything else they have been transparent with prices). I also think they got my ovulation date wrong tbh I think I ovulated the day before the iui. My lp is normally 13 days and it would make sense it got longer by taking progesterone but not shorter! 

Luckily they let me leave without paying.. But I found it really not professional to not tell us, both hubby and I thought it was included by how they just gave us an appointment..


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## OnErth&InHvn

That would make me mad!! Good gravy!


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## Norelisa

OnErth&InHvn said:


> That would make me mad!! Good gravy!

Phew I was worried I overreacted but I even told them before the blood test that it was probably pointless as my period will start today or tomorrow by all the signs (temp drop, spotting, period pain, negative htps etc). 

Now I am meeting with a lovely Thai lady who helps cats and dogs, hopefully I'll be able to take some nice pictures and help her set up a gofundme or something. Afterwards I'll be heading out to chatuchak weekend market with my hubby :)


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## steph1607

That's pretty sneaky Nor, good on you for not paying! 

Hope you all have good weekends :)


----------



## Ask4joy

Sorry Nore :( That's frustrating! Did you start spotting while on progesterone? I'm 2 days past my normal LP and not a hint of AF. I don't feel pregnant either though...

Thanks, Belle. Yeah it's hard to have hope and I decided my consolation was that DH and I could go out and have drinks tonight and let loose a little...but after another evap looking line on my FRER tonight I decided it was pizza and Netflix night instead...which resulted in me passing out on the couch. How many freakin evaps can 1 person get?

So I had an interesting experience with a police officer today...I didn't realize my plates were expired and was pulling into the hospital parking lot after work to go get my blood drawn when I see police lights flash on behind me. He told me my plates were expired then came back with a ticket (which is around a $200-$250 fine I think). I was trying to hold back the tears and told him "it's been a crazy couple of months...". After he walked away I started sobbing in my car. I just felt so defeated and overwhelmed with everything going on. A few minutes later he pulls back around and I see him walking back to my car as I try to wipe away my tears...he asks, "Are you ok?" I told him "Yeah...I just need to go in there to take a pregnancy test..." He said..."I was wondering...my wife and I had fertility treatments here...and after I saw your age and saw how upset you were and where we are...I put it together." He said he felt really bad for giving me the ticket (gee thanks) and told me about this fund that helped him and his wife pay for IVF after their first round failed. Kinda crazy, huh? Lol.

Earth - I will definitely look around regarding the progesterone!

Bella - welcome! I usually cramp leading up to, during and after O and it's definitely more significant on clomid. Should die down after a few days.

LAR - how are you doing? Have you tested at all?


----------



## LAR83

I tested this morning for the first time, 12dpo and 13 days past trigger. No line, so it looks like the trigger is out of my system. I am feeling like AF will be here soon. I know it is still early and a line could appear in the coming days, so the negative test isn't why I think I am out. I just really feel like this cycle wasn't it.


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## Norelisa

Yes, day 3 of spotting, and still on progesterone, was same thing last time I tried progesterone. For next month I will try the natural progesterone tablets my hubby got me from Cambodia.. 

Oh that's frustrating with the police :/ at least he was somewhat sensible to return... 

Let us know the results :) we would have gotten them in 1.5 h but since I didn't pay I don't think they actually tested it :)


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## Ask4joy

I'm sooo frustrated. Keep getting BFNs and I'm 15dpo and I feel ridiculous continuing to take this progesterone. Longest cycle of my life!


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## BelleNuit

Ask I think if I got a BFN at 16 dpo I would probably stop taking them, but that's just me. You were getting light lines though so that's another factor. Sorry about the ticket, that sucks!

Nore sorry about all the spotting and good for you for not paying for that blood test! How ridiculous! Also super frustrating that your IUI may not have been well timed. 

I don't have much to update, still just waiting to O! CD 12 today


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## Ask4joy

I dunno I think they were probably just evaps...the only one that had color was a blue dye and they are notorious for false positives. And the one I had DH use ended up having an evap line the next morning too. I have zero pregnancy symptoms other than no AF, high temps and a little cramping (which makes sense with the progesterone). Both times I had CPs I had BFPs by this point and my hcg was super low last cycle (beta was 6 the day AF started and I was still getting positives). I think if I'm still getting a BFN tomorrow morning I won't continue. It can take several days or more for AF to start after you stop progesterone. At this point I'm looking at a likely 40 day cycle!


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## BelleNuit

I think that's a smart plan Ask. That's what I would do. Looks like you had no spotting this cycle with the progesterone though?? Would you use progesterone again? I'm going to ask to have it for my IUI next month. I'm so fricken sick of always spotting. I'm probably going to lose my mind next cycle since I won't know what to expect PMS symptom wise having taken the trigger and potentially progesterone.

Had a bit of spotting today. I always seem to have pre-O spotting when taking femara. Anyone else get pre O spotting? I never had this before the meds (except when I was taking Chinese herbs for acupuncture)


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle - helps to hear that. Yes, not even a teeny tiny bit of spotting! Definitely using progesterone again but will clarify with my RE when I should stop if bfn (I think they said stop after 14dpo). The side effects weren't much for me. Breasts were a little sore for a couple days and a little bloating the first week of the 2ww. I think a lot of my PMS symptoms before were due to low P.

I've read that o spotting is normal but I've never had it. 

Depending when O happens next cycle might not get to do IUI. Debating if I should take clomid just in case of just do a natural cycle + progesterone.


----------



## BelleNuit

Ask are you wanting to O a little later or a little earlier next cycle? If later I would take the progesterone for a few more days to delay AF and therefore your O a little bit further. Its essentially the same as taking bcp and skipping an AF (although my body never let me do that, I always got break through bleeding when I tried to skip, c'est la vie!). If you want to O earlier quit your progesterone now and start clomid. The clomid might help you O a little earlier in your cycle. Having to delay treatment cycles is so frustrating. I'm sure it will happen to us heading into the summer months. That said, I've been trying long enough and have delayed life long enough at this point that I would rather delay treatment for a month here and there and do a little living, if you know what I mean?

I was talking to DH last night that I could be happy with children, and I could be happy living a childfree life. I just want to know which one I'm going to get so that I can look forward to it and start making plans! This limbo land of infertility just sucks. I just want to get on with my life.


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## LAR83

That makes sense, Ask. I was thinking it might make sense to stay on it mainly because you were seeing lines on your tests, but if you really think that the lines weren't legit and you continue to get negatives then I can understand wanting to stop it. I know some people get positives later, but I get that it doesn't make sense to delay your cycle every month because of it. I also totally understand wanting to have a drink! I don't drink a lot, but I miss being able to drink whenever I feel like it. I definitely look forward to having a beer once AF arrives, but for now I will hold off.


----------



## Norelisa

Hello Af.. I was expecting you. Now hubby is complaining that we spent money at all on IUI, he is driving me mad...!

I think this cycle I will use Vitex, Vit E (+pregnancy complete) and possibly the natural progesterone thingys my hubby bought in Cambodia. We will probably be on vacation when o-ing, but since no clomid / trigger / injectables I guess I might o a bit later.. 

Argh.. so annoyed and waiting for my painkiller to kick in..


----------



## Norelisa

Sigh. With af coming now, also came the realisation that I won't have a baby until 2018 now.. Sigh.. I mean, not sure I will get one in 2018 either, but if I had been pregnant now and not starting a new cycle my due date would have been Dec 31 2017...


----------



## LAR83

Hey Nor, sorry about AF and not getting a baby in 2017. :( I too was hoping for a baby by the end of 2017, but that is looking extremely unlikely now. When I made that goal a few months ago I realized it was a longshot, so I also made a secondary goal: to become pregnant before the end of 2017. That seems somewhat realistic, but who knows? If I get to 2018 and am still not pregnant that is going to feel like a new low. Fx we all get pregnant before then!


----------



## Ask4joy

So sorry Nor :hugs: I was pretty upset when I realized I wouldn't have a baby before I turn 35 (in October)...and now knowing another Christmas will pass without a baby is pretty depressing...but like LAR said, hopefully we will all be pregnant by the end of the year. If I'm not that will mean IVF failed and I can't even imagine that so I'm not going to entertain that idea as a possibility!

I stopped progesterone yesterday. Only did my morning dose. So I've missed 2 doses now and no sign of AF yet. BFN on a wondfo. I wonder if I don't need 200mg/2x a day...maybe once a day would be enough.


----------



## Norelisa

Yeah, I guess being pregnant before 2018 would be fantastic.. We are actually just passing our 1.5 year ttc.. sigh.. even though the first few months weren't super "intensive" and we didn't track o or anything... sigh. It is a bit scary thinking about starting over in France, I have heard about 2 free IVFs but have no clue as to how to make it happen, who to contact, where to find info and if there will be a delay in getting there.. 

Hubby is going to hand his resignation if his manager is in today.. Not sure what he'll do if he is absent again like on Friday..


----------



## Ask4joy

Nore - when will you move? I hope you finally get your BFP in France! Who knows...maybe a change of scenery will be good! 

I got my blood results back this eve - hcg was 0.8 (anything under 5 is considered negative) so I'm definitely not pregnant. Made the right decision to stop the progesterone. I guess it's normal to have some hcg in your system even when you're not pregnant?


----------



## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Nore - when will you move? I hope you finally get your BFP in France! Who knows...maybe a change of scenery will be good!
> 
> I got my blood results back this eve - hcg was 0.8 (anything under 5 is considered negative) so I'm definitely not pregnant. Made the right decision to stop the progesterone. I guess it's normal to have some hcg in your system even when you're not pregnant?

It will be fairly quick: By end of May / beginning of June.. :plane:

I never did a blood test for pregnancy (well, I did, haha, but they didn't test it..). I suppose it could be some in your system still from last month? Or did you get any trigger or something that could leave a tiny trace of hcg?

Fingers crossed for next month. In a way a start of 2018 baby wouldn't be so bad :) At least they would be able to start school earlier in Europe :dohh:


----------



## steph1607

Morning girls, I'm up for a January 2018 baby too!

Any CM experts got any thoughts on watery CM?! Been like that for a couple of days, but I'm thinking it might just be because the Clomid is well and truly out my system and that can dry it up...


----------



## Ask4joy

Steph - I usually get watery cm during my fertile period and only a day (if that) of ewcm. I also get watery cm right before AF starts.

Nore - you've got a lot to keep you busy with the move! I'm not sure about the hcg...I read it's normal for both men and women to have up to 0.8 in the blood...but last cycle the nurse told me I could start clomid if my blood hcg was "back to 0" (it went from 6 to 2 in 2 days).


----------



## steph1607

Thanks Ask. It's not something that I've ever monitored before so I have nothing to compare it to really. I don't think I've ever had EWCM, but again if I've never looked out for it then I may have just missed it.

I still have ever so slight cramping this morning and we did BD last night so hopefully if my ovaries are finally waking up we would have caught it. Today is CD 27 and I stopped Clomid on CD6.


----------



## BelleNuit

I'm honestly not too sure if I ever really get watery cm. I mark it down when it feels wet but there is no ewcm. I always seem to get several days of ewcm... A lot of good that does me. I honestly had so much ewcm this cycle that it was actually pretty gross to deal with lol

I'm never sure if I should count November or December as our start date for TTC. In November we ntnp and then started actively trying in December. Either way we are on our 19th good cycle, 20th cycle counting ntnp and 21st cycle if I count the one cycle I didn't O last year. So we are pretty much at that 18 month time too. I haven't calculated what my due date would be if I conceived this cycle. I'm assuming January. I really really really hope I end up pregnant in 2017. If not then we'll start IVF. 

Well should either O today or tomorrow. Temps are still low


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

My provera is HERE!!! Starting tonight! HURRY UP AF!


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## LAR83

Glad you got your provera onerth. Hope AF arrives quickly!

Ugh... this morning was so not good. I woke up in a half-awake stupor and pulled a test out of box that had ovulation tests and pregnancy tests.... you can see where this is going, right? I totally thought I was pregnant because I saw my first ever faint but clear line on the "pregnancy test." I even showed DH! :dohh: He wouldn't notice the difference by looking at the tests, so he figured I was pregnant too. Then as I was taking pictures of it and becoming more awake, I realized it said "LH" on the test. Before I noticed that it was an ovulation test, I wasted a FRER and tested with the same urine. ](*,) BFN. Then tested with a cheapie. BFN. :nope: False alarm. If AF doesn't come I will keep testing, but I really feel like this isn't my month, so I am anxious for AF to arrive so I can start preparing for IUI #4.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Oh my, we have all done that!!

Im going to take Provera at night to offset side effects


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## Ask4joy

Ooh LAR that's torturous. I'm sorry! But you aren't out! All those evaps messed with my head so much this cycle that I don't think I'll ever test early again (easier said than done).

I'm now 17dpo, cd37 and still no AF. Literally the longest cycle of my life. Come onnnn AF.

DH and I are thinking we might do a natural cycle this month then start up with IUI again in June when I'm done with school.


----------



## LAR83

that's funny.. we're all hoping for AF over here in a TTC forum. go figure. 

Ask, will you take clomid since you aren't doing IUI?


----------



## Ask4joy

No - but probably vitex. I conceived last cycle and was taking vitex and evening primrose oil for the first time. And I'll do progesterone after O but maybe only half (once a day) because AF seems to have gone into hibernation on the dose I was on!


----------



## LAR83

maybe I should try the evening primose oil too. when are you supposed to take that?


----------



## Ask4joy

Up until O (it supposedly can cause uterine contractions so you aren't supposed to take it after O). I think it helped give me more ewcm and maybe helped in other ways too. Here's a link about it: https://natural-fertility-info.com/fertility-evening-primrose-oil.html


----------



## BelleNuit

Ya I took EPO before O for a few months, but stopped as I became worried that it interacts with femara. Maybe make sure it doesn't interact with clomid before taking it? i'll say that I didn't notice any obvious differences taking it for me. Its supposed to help with ewcm, but I already get lots of that, so I guess it was a bit redundant. 

I think it makes sense not to take clomid for your natural cycle Ask, clomid/femara on their own don't do anything for unexplained. 

Lar your story literally made my heart hurt for you. How awful! If that had happened to me I would have just sat down and cried and cried. I'm so sorry!

Ladies I'm going through another angry spell... I thought I was past this... guess I just reverted into denial/numbness for a few months. The anger is back again. I literally screamed at the radio show host in my car after she said giving birth was on her bucket list (didn't help that she's pregnant). I was just like F YOU!! LOL.


----------



## Ask4joy

Belle - sorry you are feeling so angry. I can't say I've been any better. I think I may have been certifiably insane last cycle. I really think clomid seriously messes with my mood. 

AF started today. Yay! First time I've been kinda happy to see her. No spotting whatsoever - flow started today and nothing before that. I guess that's good news!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

day 2 provera. :thumbup:

YAY for AF Ask!


----------



## BelleNuit

Hey Ask thats awesome the progesterone stopped your spotting completely! I need to ask for it for myself I think! 

Good luck with the provera Earth! 

I think today is probably O day, woo hoo, only 13 more days to go till I start the IUI cycle


----------



## Ask4joy

Ok ladies...this is way TMI but I need some input. AF started today and when I went to the bathroom about an hour ago I passed two big clots that looked fleshy (same thing happened last month with my CP). In the second larger clot there was this little white ball - I've never seen anything like it. It felt kinda hard and was attatched to the clot/tissue. It was about 1/4 inch or less. Any idea what this could be? Did I have another cp? My beta was 0.8 this past Friday and I stopped progesterone on Saturday and started AF today.


----------



## BelleNuit

I'm not sure Ask, I wonder if maybe its a result of the progesterone? Maybe it over-developed your lining a bit?


----------



## Ask4joy

I'm wondering if the white ball attached to the clot might be a polyp? This is really gross but I saved it incase my doctor wants to test it. Polyps can cause infertility and I just read that 25% of women with unexplained infertility have polyps. I mean it's this distinct tiny sphere-like white mass protruding from the tissue I passed. Has me freaked out.


----------



## LAR83

Belle, sorry to hear you going through all that anger! It sucks, I know :(

Ask, I don't know... I have never experienced anything like that before. That's an upsetting thought though.. that it looked like last month and could have been another CP. I hope not! I hope your doctor could give you a better idea. 

I got another BFN today. I called my RE's office today to report my test results and to ask if I could try the extended dosage of Femera (like Belle suggested). I was told no... they only prescribe 5 days of Femara. The only time they increase that is if a woman doesn't respond to 5 days worth. I had one mature follicle, so I guess that's enough and they won't increase it. That kinda sucks. I was hoping to do more for my 4th, and probably final, IUI. 

I'm not sure about the EPO yet. I thought about taking it back when I was starting tx, but I didn't want to mess with my RE's tx plan so I didn't. Now that I have tried her way 3x and it didn't work, I am thinking of maybe adding it. I get no EWCM most cycles, and when I get it, it is very little. I guess I should ask the nurse at my clinic what she thinks... 

I have only met with my RE once to discuss my tx, during my initial visit. I have seen her and other doctors during ultrasounds and IUIs, but for the quickest amount of time ever, so the REs at my clinic aren't readily available for questions. Any time I have a question, I am directed to a nurse. I made an appointment to meet with my RE on May 9th to review my treatment plan, so I can discuss next steps after my 4th IUI.


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## BelleNuit

I'm honestly SO ANGRY for you Lar that that was the response you got! I'm glad you've book an appointment with the RE, you can show them the research. Its your fricken body. If you over stim you can just cancel the friggen cycle. You've already been through 3 IUIs. They can fucking get it straight for the 4th shot for you. I feel like ladies with unexplained just get crap shoot fertility treatment. Honestly. There is little research into what works for us in the first place and most docs don't even bother to fully test to find out what the cause is. Then we get told its IVF or bust! 

Good idea saving the tissue Ask just in case. Its possible its a polyp. Its rare but apparently (according to google) sometimes a polyp can detach and fall out during AF. 

I could just rage all fricken day. I need a rage outlet. I'm going to take up running again


----------



## LAR83

Ask, I didn't see your last post when I posted. I think it's great that you saved it so you can hopefully get some answers. I hope it is a polyp, because maybe now that it's gone, you'll have better success!

Belle... thanks. I think we have such different ways of probably dealing with very similar stuff. I rarely feel anger at all. I feel more sadness and resignation. I don't expect a lot from doctors, so it doesn't surprise or anger me at all when things don't work out how I'd like. I hardly feel a way about it. Maybe I am going through a bit of numbness myself.


----------



## Ask4joy

Thanks ladies. Hope my doctor doesn't brush it off. 

LAR - that sucks that they denied the extended dose Femera. I was thinking of filling my dose for clomid this month but not using it then re-filling next month and doing 100mg instead of 50. I don't think my doctor would agree since I ovulate (albeit late) on 50...but when I was monitored for 3 cycles I never produced more than 1 dominant follicle which kinda defeated the point of using it for unexplained. If egg quality is my issue then I need more eggs to choose from! 

Belle - I've been feeling pretty ragey myself. Like screaming at the top of my lungs. Then I feel like crap for acting like a psycho. Running or anything to burn adrenaline would help I'm sure!


----------



## steph1607

Sorry that everyone is having a pretty crappy time. There is nothing worse than a doctor that doesn't listen, we know our own bodies much better than they do and should be able to have a say in what treatment we receive.

Belle, I always take my anger and frustration out in the gym or on a good run. Always helps to clear my head a little.


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## BelleNuit

I definitely went through a long patch of numbness. I'm sorry Lar that is a sucky place to be too :( I keep thinking about infertility and how its an interrupted grieving cycle. You get like a micro grieving cycle each month (where you hope and are disappointed) but there is definitely an overarching cycle of grief as well. It starts with denial/numbness (this can't be happening, I don't feel anything, indifference, there is nothing wrong so its just a matter of time), anger (I hate every pregnant person I see, why can't my spouse just....), bargaining (these fertility treatments will work this time! I just KNOW this is my cycle!), depression (it really is never going to happen), acceptance (life moves on). The only difference is some of us get lucky and suddenly get what we want. I feel like I bounce back around the first 3 stages a fair amount. 

Ask I would definitely do 100 mg if I were you (however you want to orchestrate that). You do seem to O late and there really is no point to clomid/femara if it doesn't get at least 2 eggs for us unexplained ladies. 

Well I'm pretty sure O was yesterday. My temps are super sketchy this cycle due to interrupted sleep, so I'm not putting too much stock into them. But based on when my OPK went positive and the general trend of a temp shift I'd say CD 15 was O day for me. Its funny because I was just thinking I was due for another CD 15 O (I get them every 8 months pretty much on the dot). My cycles are so weirdly regular


----------



## rickyandlucy

Hey guys. Need opinions.

After nearly a year of BFN's, DH and I need a vacation. We are planning on the end of next month and are considering Puerto Vallarta. There is still time to TTC one more time before then, which raises the zika concern. On the one hand, this is definitely the kind of trip I would want to take before having a baby, and we've never taken this kind of trip before (never been able to before, but that's another story). But on the other hand, I am concerned about potential repercussions.

Do we purchase travel insurance, and if we get pregnant on this last cycle (which I consider unlikely at this point) cancel?

Do we try NOT to conceive this time? But then how long to wait before TTC when we get back? CDC says 6 months but that isn't happening.

Or just see what happens, and decide then?

DH's brother lives in Mexico and they just had a healthy baby, so I try to calm down by reminding myself that people in Mexico are still having lots of healthy babies every day.


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## steph1607

Hey Lucy! It's a really tough one. DH and I had a holiday to Thailand booked for December 2016. When I spoke to the nurse at my GP surgery to get our vaccinations (4 weeks before we flew) she told us that it was at that point classed by gov.uk as high risk and explained about the whole waiting for 6 months etc. My main concern wasn't necessarily that, but more that as my cycles were so irregular and hard to track I may not know I was pregnant until it was too late. We spoke to the travel agents and by some miracle they told us we had until the end of that week to cancel and be able to get the majority of our money back. We looked into possible alternatives that were still sort long haul and exciting and exotic and ended up going to Mauritius. I know the risk would have been sooooo tiny but because we had the option of changing we figured we may as well.

I know that probably doesn't help you make up your mind though! Are there any other places you could consider going to? I'm guessing you want Mexico because it's not too far or not too pricey or something?


----------



## LC89

Hey Everyone, :hi:

I'm 27 and DH is 37, we have been TTC for a total of 7 years now. In 2010 I was told I had PCOS and Hypothyroidism. I started taking Clomid 25mg for two rounds and nothing happened then my DR. added 1000mg metformin the 3rd round and I got pregnant with twins but ended up having a MC around 10 weeks. After that I was so upset and haven't takin the meds again until now, so here we are again. So March 30th my doc prescribed me 50mg Clomid days 5-10 ( Never done 6 days of Clomid before usually only 5 days ) 1000mg Metformin and 0.25 MG Levothyroxine along with a baby aspirin and prenatal. I have not been able to start my clomid yet bc AF has not showed up. Before I went to this new doc I was taking 2000 mg of metformin to help with my PCOS and it kept my periods regular but this new doc had me on 1000mg of metformin and AF should have been here April 4th but she didn't show so I called my doc and he upped my metformin back to the 2000 mg, but still today no AF. Around April 6th I spotted off and on that day but didn't think it was AF because it went away but on the 23rd of April I had EWCM and cramps like O cramps, so could that day of spotting have been my AF and I'm now on CD 21 - 3 DPO or is it more then likely I'm still on CD 53 and need to ask for something to help AF show up. I POAS and it was a :bfn: . I'm so confused. I go back to the doc tomorrow to get blood work done to make sure my thyroid meds is the right mg or if it needs to be upped, should I ask for something to help AF then or wait. :cry: ](*,) :help:


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## OnErth&InHvn

Lucy, id NTNP during that time.


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## rickyandlucy

Steph: Yeah it's a combo of price and proximity.

Earth: Yeah that's what I am thinking also. Especially because it is an all inclusive and I would like to take advantage of the drinks, lol. And I feel like I can't putting things off just because I *might* get pregnant. I need a vacation so bad.

So that leaves one thing: opinions on how long we should wait before TTC when we get back? The CDC guidelines are extreme IMO. 6 months even if you didn't have symptoms. If we did that we would either never have a baby or never visit DH's family.


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## BellaBoo0512

Hi everyone. Looking for a bit of advice. This is my first cycle on 50mg clomid cd 2-6. On Monday cd20 I had my blood test to check for ovulation. I should of had the test on Tuesday but it was ds1's birthday so had it a day earlier.

My levels were 13 and the nurse said that anything under 30 means I haven't ovulated and to double up to 100mg next cycle. 

I was convinced I had ovulated because of the cramps I've been getting so I'm feeling really down now :(

What do they check for on the blood test? Is 13 really low?

Thanks in advance for any replies x


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## steph1607

Lucy when I spoke with the nurse, I'm sure she said that you need to wait 8 weeks after returning. If you have no symptoms you're good to crack on. She said that only if the man tests positive is it necessary to wait 6 months. But obviously if you've heard different I would hate to give bad advice. What does DH think?

Bella, the CD21 blood test checks progesterone levels to see if you ovulated. I had mine last week after 50mg Clomid and hadn't either. They didn't say to me 'there is no way you ovulated', rather 'it is unlikely that you ovulated'. Also, you can O at any point with it really so in a way the test could be ineffective as you could O around CD20 for example.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BellaBoo0512 said:


> Hi everyone. Looking for a bit of advice. This is my first cycle on 50mg clomid cd 2-6. On Monday cd20 I had my blood test to check for ovulation. I should of had the test on Tuesday but it was ds1's birthday so had it a day earlier.
> 
> My levels were 13 and the nurse said that anything under 30 means I haven't ovulated and to double up to 100mg next cycle.
> 
> I was convinced I had ovulated because of the cramps I've been getting so I'm feeling really down now :(
> 
> What do they check for on the blood test? Is 13 really low?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any replies x

In UK they measure in 13 nmol/L = 4 ng/mL, so that would mean you didnt O by US standards. Anything over 5 is considered O. 

The p4 test on cd21/7dpo is just Progesterone. It just says " yes you ovulated" or " no you didnt".


----------



## Ask4joy

Lucy - I totally understand the need for a break. I agree with the others - I'd take the month off and use protection to be safe. 

Belle - it's always kind of a relief to have O over with...but then there's the agony of waiting. At least you know you have something new to try that DOES have a slightly higher success rate for unexplained. 

Welcome LC89! Nice to see someone else who has a significant age gap in their relationship. :) I hope you get some answers about your current cycle soon! Maybe ask for a blood pregnancy test so you know how to proceed. I am very sorry about your loss.

Bella - I've never had my progesterone checked as OPKs and temping has always confirmed O for me so I'm not much help but I know of people who had lower P levels and were still pregnant. 

I'm waiting to hear back from a nurse at my RE's office about the clots and tissue I passed. I'm feeling like it was another early loss...the only time I have seen anything like that was my CPs. I hope they can figure out why I can't get past implantation. :(


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## OnErth&InHvn

day 3/10 for Provera. Other than that first night, no other SE. I did start temping again.


----------



## BellaBoo0512

Thank you so much for your replies. I'm so new to all of this and don't really understand everything. Just going to take things day by day and see what happens. Around cd 14 I was having lots of cramping and today been getting stabbing pains in my right side but maybe that could be a cyst because I have pcos x


----------



## rickyandlucy

Steph: DH thinks the whole thing has gotten blown out of proportion. Puerta Vallarta is located in the state of Jalisco, and across that whole state there have only been 86 cases. The state my husband is from has had over 1,800. That has helped ease my mind a bit. We know several people from his town who have had perfectly healthy babies. We also don't know of anyone actually getting zika. So in terms of a vacation I suppose it's now or never!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BellaBoo0512 said:


> Thank you so much for your replies. I'm so new to all of this and don't really understand everything. Just going to take things day by day and see what happens. Around cd 14 I was having lots of cramping and today been getting stabbing pains in my right side but maybe that could be a cyst because I have pcos x

I have had O pains and even a + OPK but not Od. :hugs:


----------



## steph1607

Lucy in that case I'm sure with some good repellent and being aware you'll be fine, sounds like it might be just what you need :)

Bella, I've had some cramping this week (not really sure what O pains feel like) and I'm now day 29, don't really know what my body's doing at the moment! Just waiting to hear back from the doctor about more tablets to trigger AF and upping dosage to 100mg.


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## OnErth&InHvn

newest symptom: Creamy-like CM. I hope that means the Provera is doing something!


----------



## Norelisa

steph1607 said:


> Hey Lucy! It's a really tough one. DH and I had a holiday to Thailand booked for December 2016. When I spoke to the nurse at my GP surgery to get our vaccinations (4 weeks before we flew) she told us that it was at that point classed by gov.uk as high risk and explained about the whole waiting for 6 months etc. My main concern wasn't necessarily that, but more that as my cycles were so irregular and hard to track I may not know I was pregnant until it was too late. We spoke to the travel agents and by some miracle they told us we had until the end of that week to cancel and be able to get the majority of our money back. We looked into possible alternatives that were still sort long haul and exciting and exotic and ended up going to Mauritius. I know the risk would have been sooooo tiny but because we had the option of changing we figured we may as well.
> 
> I know that probably doesn't help you make up your mind though! Are there any other places you could consider going to? I'm guessing you want Mexico because it's not too far or not too pricey or something?

Haha, I live in Thailand now. There has been more cases of Zika in Norway than in Thailand, hehe :) You would have loved it here though.. :)


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## steph1607

I know Nore, and as I was typing my reply I was thinking "hang on, it really can't be that bad!" :D

Oh it looked so beautiful and we were so excited to go, but that nurse just put the fear of God in me, and I figured if we can go somewhere else on the same dates with no extra course then we may as well. I'm definitely coming to Thailand one day though!

Although if anyone ever fancies Mauritius I would recommend that too!


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## LC89

Ask : Thanks for the response. Yes it is going to be great being able to talk so someone else TTC with the age difference also :hugs: Sorry about your CP's. Hopefully soon you will get your little sticky bean.

AFM: My Dr. apt is today at 3:45 so I'm going to ask for the blood test to see if I'm pregnant and if not I'm going to ask for something to start AF. What should I ask for? 

Sorry even though I have done this back in 2010 somethings are still new to me.


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## LC89

Has anyone used or is using the clear blue advanced touchscreen fertility monitor? 

I just started temping so I'm not that good at it or reading it yet, but was trying to see if the fertility monitor was easy to read and if it gave good results.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> Has anyone used or is using the clear blue advanced touchscreen fertility monitor?
> 
> I just started temping so I'm not that good at it or reading it yet, but was trying to see if the fertility monitor was easy to read and if it gave good results.

The new one gets mixed reviews. I have the old version. I loved it.


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## LAR83

LC, I have hypothyroidism also. Do you take levothyroxine too? I am concerned about my levels because they recently changed and I don't know why. I am going to have my blood tested tomorrow to see if my increased dosage of medication is working. 

I got AF on Wednesday. Here is my tentative plan for this cycle:

April 28: blood work
April 28 - May 2: femara
May 7: ultrasound & ovidrel
May 8: IUI
May 23: test

Since it's probably my final IUI, I am taking my friend's suggestion and taking the whole day off work and chilling out on my back all day. Not sure if there is any truth to that helping, but it worked for her and it's not like it's going to hurt.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> Ask : Thanks for the response. Yes it is going to be great being able to talk so someone else TTC with the age difference also :hugs: Sorry about your CP's. Hopefully soon you will get your little sticky bean.
> 
> AFM: My Dr. apt is today at 3:45 so I'm going to ask for the blood test to see if I'm pregnant and if not I'm going to ask for something to start AF. What should I ask for?
> 
> Sorry even though I have done this back in 2010 somethings are still new to me.

You'll need provera to start af.
------------
5/10 of provera. Only slight cramping...which doesn't last or seem to do much. :shrug:

I'm on CD99! I feel like my body is a broken record...repeating the same thing over and over.


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## LC89

Earth: Thanks for the info about the monitor. I will defiantly go with the older monitor , bc wrong results is the last thing I need right now lol.
I went to see my RE the other day he didn't do a blood pg test only a urine test, :bfn: but he gave me Provera 10mg, I started my first pill of Provera last night. My RE didn't really tell me when I should take it
( morning or night ). When do you take yours? Does Provera have any bad side effects? Today makes CD55 and counting for me, hopefully we will both see AF soon so we can get this new cycle started. 

Lar: Yes I take 0.025 MG of Levothyroxine when I had my TSH checked back in 2015 my level was 4.2 ( lost insurance and didn't go back to check again until March 2017 ) and when I had my levels checked again in March it went up to a 5.6 but my RE told me to come back in a month and he will check again, so I went back and had blood work yesterday for another TSH test and he referred me to a FM dr in the same building and I go to see him Tuesday to see what my levels are this time and to hopefully get my Levothyroxine upped if my TSH levels are still to high. My RE told me that a good level to be at while TTC is 1.0 - 2.0 
I'm along way from that with my levels last month being a 5.6, cant wait until Tuesday to see what they are now.


AFM: Still taking 2000MG Metformin a day , 0.025 Levothyroxine Daily , Prenatal Vitamin , 81MG baby aspirin and now Provera 10MG daily for 10 days. Also I asked my RE about him telling me to take Clomid days 5 - 10 and I was wondering why 6 days and everyone else takes it 5 days, he said the 6th day is a booster pill and it helps with getting more mature eggs. So I guess RE knows best ( I hope ). Also when he calls in my Clomid each month ( March & April ) idk if its a mix up with him or my pharmacy but its 30 pills each time ( 5 months worth ) so the past two months I have gotten 10 months worth of clomid but haven't been able to take any of it bc AF is went on vacation :dohh: :cry:


----------



## steph1607

LC and Earth I hope you see AF very soon!

Ladies, unless I miraculously get a BFP tomorrow morning, I will be starting my Norethisterone tablets for five days, and then should start 100mg Clomid week after next. Does anyone have any recommendations of any supplements I can take, or anything I can do? I currently take Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Evening Primrose, and last cycle of Clomid I was having Guaifenisin in cough syrup- open to anything else! 

Hope you're all as glad as me that it's the weekend! (At least it almost is for those of you the other side of the Atlantic)


----------



## LC89

thanks Steph, 

sorry I don't have any recommendations of any supplements I'm also looking for any recommendations, but I do have a question. 

What is Evening Primrose used for? 

I have heard a lot of people taking it but I never knew why / or if I should try it. Also a lot of ladies and there DH are taking CoQ-10 also and I was wondering what it was for / or if I should try it.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> Earth: Thanks for the info about the monitor. I will defiantly go with the older monitor , bc wrong results is the last thing I need right now lol.
> I went to see my RE the other day he didn't do a blood pg test only a urine test, :bfn: but he gave me Provera 10mg, I started my first pill of Provera last night. My RE didn't really tell me when I should take it
> ( morning or night ). When do you take yours? Does Provera have any bad side effects? Today makes CD55 and counting for me, hopefully we will both see AF soon so we can get this new cycle started.

How many days did he tell you to take it for? I have 10mg for 10 days. 
I take mine at night to ward off any side effects. Its just synthetic progesterone so all the normal 2ww symptoms. 

-----
LC/Steph- I dont remember what the EPO is for. Ive been at this a long time and all the herbs and supplements come and go, get circled back again. The CoQ is for swimmers. 
---------


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## LC89

He said 10mg for 10 days. I took my first pill last night so I will continue taking them at night to also ward off any side effects.

I will get DH some CoQ-10 then, I already have him taking a multivitamin so he should be ok adding one more pill :winkwink:


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## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> He said 10mg for 10 days. I took my first pill last night so I will continue taking them at night to also ward off any side effects.
> 
> I will get DH some CoQ-10 then, I already have him taking a multivitamin so he should be ok adding one more pill :winkwink:

well then you and i will be close in the next cycle, so thats always good. :thumbup:


----------



## Ask4joy

Hi ladies - sorry I don't have any experience with provera.

Steph - I also take CoQ10, myo-inositol and omega 3 fish oil (and put maca root in my smoothies when I remember and pineapple core after O).

I had the shortest AF ever...first day was medium flow with those 2 huge/strange blood clots, next day was heavy, next day light and today just spotting. Not sure if that's a good thing? AF used to last a good week with 2-3 days of heavy flow and spotting on both ends making for 10+ days of bleeding sometimes.

I'm also having strong O cramps - only on cd 4 and don't usually get these until cd 8 - 10. 

Still sick after 2 weeks and finally went to the doctor and was diagnosed with a sinus infection. On Augmenten for 10 days.


----------



## LAR83

Ask, did you get to talk to your RE and show her what came out of you yet?

LC, do you have hashimoto's disease? I am reading a book now called Your Healthy Pregnancy with Thyroid disease. So far it is super depressing because it's talking about all the things that can go wrong... but eventually I will get to the part where it talks about how to fix it. My TSH levels were also between 5 and 6 last time I got tested, so they increased my levothyroxine from 50mcg to 75mcg, but then they did the IUI right after that. The more I am reading about it, I realize it would have made more sense to make sure my thyroid levels were much lower before pursuing another IUI. I feel like I am wasting my IUI insurance coverage by using it when my thyroid isn't even at a good enough level for me to sustain a pregnancy. So frustrating. My results will come back Monday or Tuesday and if my levels are high again, I will probably ask them to cancel the IUI cycle until my numbers are lower. By the way, that's funny you got so much clomid! 

Last month I paid over $100 for Femara because my insurance only covers 2.5mg of Femara (actually letrozole) a day and my doctor prescribed me 5mg/day. Today when I went to get it refilled, the person told me she would put it in as 1pill for 10 days instead of 2 pills for 5 days, so my insurance would cover all of it. I only had to pay about $3. Much better! Just sharing that in case anyone else has a similar situation. 

I was thinking to myself I could take one a day and screw what my doctor said about not extending the dosage, but usually people start the extended dose on day one, and I suppose, reluctantly, that I should follow my doctor's instructions. I am taking my first dose tonight.


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## Ask4joy

LAR - I spoke to a nurse at my RE's office and she pretty much dismissed what I told her and told me it was probably just my lining coming out before it broke down. I told her bout the little white mass attached to it and she said it would be too early to see anything like that if it were a miscarriage...but I read that a 4 week gestational sac is 2-3mm which is how big this was. She said she would talk to my doctor and see if he wants me to do any further testing or a hysteroscopy but that was 2 days ago and I never heard back. Pretty frustrating. AF was exactly like this last month with my CP.

I might try the extended dose if I were you...but maybe after you make sure your thyroid level is good. I'm thinking of doubling my clomid dose for my next IUI.


----------



## LAR83

That is super frustrating that she didn't take you seriously! These doctors and nurses are so hard to work with sometimes. They're not always right, but because they have the power in the relationship, what they say goes. I hope they do take your concerns seriously and look more into it. 

Taking the extended dose of femara is tempting, I know! I figured I can take the femara even if my thyroid isn't great... I may just cancel the IUI so I don't waste my IUI coverage, but at least the femara was only $3 so I am not wasting my money. I'm on day 3 now, so if I extended it, I would do it day 3-12. Should I do it? It feels so rebellious. Haha..


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> LAR - I spoke to a nurse at my RE's office and she pretty much dismissed what I told her and told me it was probably just my lining coming out before it broke down. I told her bout the little white mass attached to it and she said it would be too early to see anything like that if it were a miscarriage...but I read that a 4 week gestational sac is 2-3mm which is how big this was. She said she would talk to my doctor and see if he wants me to do any further testing or a hysteroscopy but that was 2 days ago and I never heard back. Pretty frustrating. AF was exactly like this last month with my CP.
> 
> I might try the extended dose if I were you...but maybe after you make sure your thyroid level is good. I'm thinking of doubling my clomid dose for my next IUI.

When we lost our baby in 2009 ( stopped HB at 6w3d). The sac was about the size of a grapefruit, baby the size of kidney bean if that helps you at all?


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LAR83 said:


> That is super frustrating that she didn't take you seriously! These doctors and nurses are so hard to work with sometimes. They're not always right, but because they have the power in the relationship, what they say goes. I hope they do take your concerns seriously and look more into it.
> 
> Taking the extended dose of femara is tempting, I know! I figured I can take the femara even if my thyroid isn't great... I may just cancel the IUI so I don't waste my IUI coverage, but at least the femara was only $3 so I am not wasting my money. I'm on day 3 now, so if I extended it, I would do it day 3-12. Should I do it? It feels so rebellious. Haha..

I would do it! I dont do anything by the book though... lol. <- has no dr, no insurance and buys meds offline = total TTC rebel. :blush::haha:


----------



## Ask4joy

Earth - I really think it was another cp. I never had a positive hpt but had a bunch of evaps and everything else seems to point to that. Every other month I took clomid I had a very heavy AF. If it was...I wish my doctor would investigate more. I'm thinking of switching doctors/clinics. My clinic has high success rates but I feel like I'm just being pushed through the system and not being treated as an individual. One of my best friends highly recommends another place and she's due in a couple of weeks after 1 IVF.

LAR - is there any harm? After 3 IUIs I'd want to try something different. My RE suggested doing 3-4 before moving onto IVF.


----------



## Norelisa

I was told by my Dr to not take epo and clomid / injectables. But I have been avoiding epo anyway due to something I read about it interfering with epilepsy. But now that I'm getting off my epilepsy medicine I am tempted to try it nevertheless. 

I'm taking 800 iu (international unites) of vitamin e for my lining, it seems to work :) my af went from two-three days to 4-6 days.. 

We are at the airport, waiting on our plane to get ready, sooo looking forward to beach vacation on koh lipe :)


----------



## LAR83

Ask4joy said:


> LAR - is there any harm? After 3 IUIs I'd want to try something different. My RE suggested doing 3-4 before moving onto IVF.

I am not sure if there is any harm. It is hard for me to find good information. When I google it, a lot of the info that comes up are women from other message boards talking about their experiences. One woman said her doctor didn't like her taking her femara too long because taking it too long can decrease egg quality. I can't exactly trust the source of information, but that could be true. I took 5mg last night, so I am thinking what I might do is take 5mg day 3 and day 4 and then 2.5mg days 5-10. :shrug:


----------



## BelleNuit

Lar I was just going to tell you to take them that way! I think you want to be finished them by day 10. Good for you for taking charge of things!

Ask it does sound like your clinic is not giving you the best individual care. I think that's often the case with unexplained. They can't find he reason why and so just treat us generically.


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## LAR83

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I will do it that way then and take my last dose on day 10. Still not sure about the IUI. I will see what my blood tests say next week. The frustrating thing is that there are a lot of different medical opinions about what your thyroid levels should be. I have been reading that a lot of doctors think that TSH within a certain range OK and give women the go ahead to start fertility tx and try conceiving, but the truth is the levels need to be lower or it can cause infertility and miscarriage. I am realizing I need to get more educated and take more of my fertility into my own hands.


----------



## BelleNuit

Lar when I first went for my initial blood work back in June I had a doctor who had struggled with infertility herself. I think it was meant to be because I went to a walk in clinic and saw her on her last day of work before leaving for a maternity leave. She ended up conceiving using a surrogate. She empathized with me that what we were going through was very difficult but said that we were going to need to be strong advocates for ourselves going forward. I am seeing that more and more now. I think the further we get into the treatment process the more true that will be. The thing is, the docs don't have all the answers. They don't even know what is causing our infertility.


----------



## LC89

Earth: Today is my 3rd day of Provera , we are going to be very close this cycle :thumbup: and it will be great to have a cycle buddy this month :hugs: 

Lar: I haven't been told I have Hashimoto's. Maybe I need to be tested. Do you? I will defiantly get that book and start reading it soon, also a friend told me about another book I want to get and start reading its Yes, You can get pregnant by Aimee Raupp , it has a lot of natural things for us TTC to do that helps our body get healthy and helps get our BFP. My friend lives by this book and keeps telling me to get it. She was TTC for 11 years she is now pregnant with #1 and she truly believes that the book and doing the things it told her to is why she is pregnant.
My thyroid levels test results will be back Tuesday also and hopefully the FM Dr will raise my dose of Levothyroxine because this .25 I'm on isn't enough and hopefully soon both of our doctors will get our thyroid levels down to a good level to get our BFP but I would reschedule the IUI at least until your levels are for sure lower.

AFM: Today is CD 56 :dohh: 
I added EPO and CoQ10 to my meds and also added CoQ10 to DH meds.
That's about all the update I have on me... just sitting here impatiently waiting for AF to come back from vacation :dohh::nope:


----------



## steph1607

I am also going to get some CoQ10- thanks everyone!

CD33 for me and got a BFN this morning so started day 1 of 5 of Norethisterone. I reckon I night almost sync up with you as well LC and Earth &#128522;


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## Ask4joy

Sounds like you have a good plan LC. Remember you should only use EPO until O.

Sorry about the bfn Steph. But at least you can move on to a new cycle now.

I'm cd 5. Still a little spotting. Taking vitex, epo, CoQ10, omega 3 fish oil, and prenatal. Plus these antibiotics...but it will be 48 hours since I started them tonight and so far I don't feel any better. Been sick for 2+ weeks. :cry:


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## BelleNuit

Did they decide to increase your meds for this new cycle steph?


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## LAR83

LC.. I was told I do have Hashimoto's. Notice I say, "I have been told" because I don't know if my doctor did all the necessary blood tests to confirm that, or if she made an assumption because most people who have hypothyroid have it as a result of Hashimoto's unless they live in a country where people tend to be iodine deficient, in which case that could be the cause. There are other causes too, but Hashimoto's accounts for the vast majority of cases in the US. I am going to take a look at the book your friend recommended too. BFP after 11 years! That is a great testimony for a book if I have ever heard one! I hope you get your levels in order soon too. <3 

I am really bad at the advocating-for-myself concept. It makes me very uncomfortable even though I know it is the right thing to do, so I am going to try searching for a really good integrative doctor who is more likely to do the right tests and suggest a tx plan that is really specific to my body's needs.


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## steph1607

Thanks Ask, I wasn't too disappointed as I knew it was coming, more just to give me the green light to start a new cycle.

They have indeed, Belle, 100mg CD2-6 &#128522;


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## BelleNuit

Lar self advocacy is exhausting. I have done a poor job of it myself this past year. I second guess myself a lot. I think I'm just going to channel my anger into it. At least that will be a productive use of this emotion. 

Good luck with the increased dose Steph!


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## OnErth&InHvn

CD100...

day 6 of 10 for Provera. :thumbup:

---------
I have thought of stopping at 7 days and hoping AF shows but id hate to do that and not get AF


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## BelleNuit

Earth it will be nice to finally be able to put this cycle behind you!


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Earth it will be nice to finally be able to put this cycle behind you!

I agree!! 

-----
What TTC app does everyone use? ( if you use one other than FF) Right now im using Ovia.


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## BellaBoo0512

Sorry ladies I haven't been on for a few days.

I'm on cd26 today. Been doing tests daily despite my bloodwork progesterone levels only being at 13 I was sure I'd ovulated. 

Now I'm just waiting for AF to arrive so I can start round 2 of clomid. I've been told to take 100mg this time.

I was feeling so positive at the beginning of this cycle and now I just feel so fed up. Everyone around me seems to either be pregnant or have just had a baby and I'm just sat here hoping for it to happen but the longer time goes on the more I feel like it isn't going to happen :(


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## steph1607

Morning Bella, I'm also hoping to 100mg this coming cycle, started taking Norethisterone yesterday so AF should be here in just over a week I should think.

Try not to feel too disheartened, from what I have seen on these forums, for those of us with PCOS it is likely to happen eventually, it's just a case of finding the right dosage to kick start O (and then of course timing BD very nicely). I probably sound more upbeat than I feel, I also had high hopes for the 50mg and I'm scared about the side effects from doubling the dosage, but I am trying to remain confident that we will get there. Always here to listen to you vent when you need to! &#10084;


----------



## BellaBoo0512

Aw thank you so much for your reply Steph. TTC hasnt really got me down too much until these past couple of days. I guess the more time goes on the more I think it might never happen. I don't know if it's the lasting effects from the clomid or if it is pending AF but I've been a right moody cow these past few days and I hate myself for it.

I'm not sure when my AF is due, last time it was a 29 day cycle but prior to that it has varied massively. The clinic have said that if AF hasn't arrived by CD35 they will give me something to kick start it.

Fingers crossed for the both of us for next cycle and to everyone else who is TTC xx


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## BellaBoo0512

Can I just ask a quick question?

I know that clomid is supposed to make you ovulate on cd14 but is it possible to ovulate later than that?
I started to get cramps on cd14 that were on and off upto cd20. Could I have ovulated anytime within those days? I had my cd21 bloodwork on cd20 and the levels were 13 so maybe I had only just ovulated?

I know I'm probably clutching at straws here but I'm just so confused with everything. 

My cycles average out at 33 days and according to an app on my phone I should of only ovulated around cd20.


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## steph1607

You're welcome Bella!

It could definitely be the Clomid adding to you feeling low, I know I feel pretty terrible on it sometimes. 

The Clomid can technically make you ovulate at any time, some people earlier than CD14, some much later. I think that's why some people have ultrasounds and things while taking it, as well as the CD21 blood test. My clinic said to me 'it's unlikely that you ovulated this cycle' because of course they can't be sure whether or not you ovulated later than CD14.

I guess if you think you may have O'd around CD20, waiting until CD35 to see if AF arrives will be good timing.


----------



## BellaBoo0512

Thank you for your fast reply! I just feel like I don't really know much about clomid so I think I need to do a bit of research. I'm a bit scared of taking 100mg because if I feel like this off a low dose then surely I'm going to feel worse off a higher one. I suppose I'm just going to have to wait it out and keep my fingers crossed x


----------



## BelleNuit

I need to vent a little. 

My mother (who I have a very strained relationship with) lives in Mexico. She is up in Canada now for my brother's wedding and spent the night at my place last night. She told me that my brother was planning to start trying to have kids right away (which is a bad idea but another story). She asked when we were planning to start trying. I gave her the benefit of the doubt and said we had unexplained infertility and may not be able to have kids. She then said "Well I never wanted to be a grandmother anyway and if you don't have kids then I won't have to visit as often" 

Gee... thanks mom...

It just went south from there


----------



## Ask4joy

I've ovulated on cd 20 twice on clomid. I never ovulate past cd18 naturally.

Clomid definitely effects my mood and makes me feel pretty depressed. I struggle with depression and anxiety as is and clomid makes it much worse.

Belle - oh my. I'm so sorry. I would have lost my *#%!. My mother can be insensitive at times too and we have had our share of intense arguments. I'm really sorry you are having to deal with that. The only thing that helps me deal with it is when I remember that she has issues that have nothing to do with me and distance myself.

I feel like I've hit rock bottom. I'm really not ok. DH is still jobless and only has 3 more weeks of severance pay. My co-teacher has been out for a week because her mother in law is in the hospital and we are falling behind (plus the kids are losing it with all of the different subs in and out). My sister in law who was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer a little over a year ago is showing progression (after staying stable on chemo for a year) and is now on this new immunotherapy. She never smoked, is 35, and has a 1.5 year old and 6 year old. I'm still sick after 2.5 weeks and 3 days on antibiotics (I think I'm slowly starting to improve). Oh, and I'm infertile and miscarried in March. I'm having a huge pity party and feel like I am having a complete breakdown.


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## LAR83

Belle, how insensitive that was! sorry that you got that response from your mom. Apparently she isn't someone you can talk to about your infertility :( How did you even respond to that?

Ask, so sorry about what you are going through. Has dh been getting any more interviews or any feedback from the phone interview he did? It sounds like you have stress coming shooting at you from all angles right now. I am with you as far as rock bottom. I was pretty close myself recently.. my depression was getting wayyyy worse. I wondered if it was the result of the Femara, or my hypothyroid, or maybe bc I am only on a low dose of psych meds compared to what I was on before... I don't know, but it wasn't good. I am trying to fight my way out of it now. You aren't alone and we are all here to support you. I know online isn't the same as real life, and we can't take real life stress away. I really hope that you start to feel a lot better soon, and that some of your life stressors get resolved so you can get some relief from it all. <3 :hugs:


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## BelleNuit

Lar I just told her that sometimes its better not to say anything at all and then I left the room. The sad part is, is that I knew that was how she would respond. I think I even posted about it on here a few months ago. I thought I would give her the benefit of the doubt. Wish I hadn't. Honestly if I ever am able to have kids I don't know that I would want them exposed to someone like her. 

Ask I'm so sorry for everything that you are going through right now. :( I also feel like I'm hitting a low spot and feel more depressed.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks girls. I need to try to just take it one day, or even hour, at a time. When I start thinking about "everything" I start to lose it. 

LAR - I'm on a low dose antidepressant too and it's not really cutting it. I went off it for a year just before and while ttc and wasn't doing too well so I went back on 2 months ago. I started on a low dose which helped at first but now doesn't seem to be enough. I have a family history of mood disorders and really benefit from being on the right medicine...I've been off and on since I was 18 and know I'm better off on them but will most likely taper off once I'm pregnant.

DH hasn't had any more interviews and never heard back after the phone interview even though they told him he was on their "short list" and they wanted to bring him in. Strange. He's applied to a bunch of jobs (like 10!) so it has to just be a matter of time. He's also working with 2 recruiters. One had a good job prospect but the pay wasn't quite enough. 

So I had a bunch of ewcm today even though I'm only cd 6. Never seen it that early. Opk wasn't positive but bd'd just in case.


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## BelleNuit

I'm the same Ask. I feel less overwhelmed when I try to stay in this moment rather than thinking about the future. 

Ask it might be worthwhile asking your doc if you are on the right dose of your antidepressant or not. Exercise (nothing too strenuous) is also known to have a mild antidepressant effect. 

It sounds like your DH is doing everything he can to find a new job. Let him worry about that. You have enough to deal with.

CD 6 is early for ewcm... Maybe you're going to O a bit earlier this cycle??


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## OnErth&InHvn

Im going to stop the Provera tonight and see if ill start AF. If not, ill take the last few.


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## BelleNuit

still waiting for AF? How frustrating Earth!

Well I completely lost my temper on DH tonight. Like looooost it. I often get irritable/moody around this point in my cycle. I think I'm out :/


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## LC89

Day 6 of my Provera / CD 59 :shrug: :nope:

Earth what happens if we stop the Provera early? Could it start our AF?

Ok I need to stop EPO when I O, do I need to stop the CoQ-10 also or should I keep taking it the whole cycle?


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> still waiting for AF? How frustrating Earth!
> 
> Well I completely lost my temper on DH tonight. Like looooost it. I often get irritable/moody around this point in my cycle. I think I'm out :/

CD103......provera day 9 of 10



LC89 said:


> Day 6 of my Provera / CD 59 :shrug: :nope:
> 
> Earth what happens if we stop the Provera early? Could it start our AF?
> 
> Ok I need to stop EPO when I O, do I need to stop the CoQ-10 also or should I keep taking it the whole cycle?

I decided not to stop early because my luck i would and id still not get AF... Tomorrow is my last pill. Some women take 5 or 7 days and get AF.


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## steph1607

Earth, I finish my Norethisterone tomorrow too, how long does it normally take for you to get AF after? Mine pathetic excuse for AF should hopefully be here by Sunday or Monday and then I can go for the Clomid again CD2-6


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## Ask4joy

Hope AF shows soon for you girls! I'm not sure if it's helpful but AF showed for me 3 days after stopping progesterone.

Belle - sorry you are feeling irritable. Doesn't mean you are out but I know what you mean...but the months that I had BFPs my symptoms weren't really any different...I get pretty bad pms (physical and emotional) so it's probably hard to tell the difference.

Cd 8 today and tons of ewcm. Guessing the EPO is helping. I've never had more than 1 day of it! Could the antibiotics I'm on have anything to do with that? Cd 8 is very early for me but temps are dropping.

I feel like I'm running on empty. DH's ex wife called him today to whine about her alimony payment being late due to his job loss (they usually withdraw it from his paycheck but he had to pay it directly this time so it was a few days later than normal). It enrages me that he still has to support her and that she refuses to work. 3 more years then she's on her own! I can't wait!!!


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## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Earth, I finish my Norethisterone tomorrow too, how long does it normally take for you to get AF after? Mine pathetic excuse for AF should hopefully be here by Sunday or Monday and then I can go for the Clomid again CD2-6

I dont know. Im hoping a few days. ive heard about a week. 



Ask4joy said:


> I feel like I'm running on empty. DH's ex wife called him today to whine about her alimony payment being late due to his job loss (they usually withdraw it directly from his paycheck but he had to pay it directly this time so it was a few days later than normal). It enrages me that he still has to support her and that she refuses to work. 3 more years then she's on her own! I can't wait!!!

I have to pay child support until May 2023. :cry: ( I wouldnt have a problem if my son got the money but his dad does and his dad isnt involved in his life).


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## Ask4joy

Yeah it sucks, Earth. The kids are with us half the time and she always tells them to "ask their father" when they want or need something even though she gets half his pay check. They are 13 and 14 - there is NO reason she shouldn't be working. But he just wanted to end the dragged out divorce so he settled rather than taking it all the way to trial which in and of itself is very costly. Alimony ends in 3 years (which is 2.5 times child support) and child support ends for the older in 3.5 years and the younger in 5 years.


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## LAR83

LC, how were the TSH levels that you got back today?

I got mine back today too and they were 1.46. I told myself that I would only get the IUI done if my levels were under 2, based on my own research and regardless of what my doctor recommended. So I don't have to cancel the IUI this cycle! I was really surprised. In my mind it was practically already cancelled. I am in the beginning stages right now of drastically changing my diet and adding in regular exercise. Those things are important for anyone TTC obviously, but lifestyle changes seem to be even more important for people with thyroid issues. 

By the way, for anyone here TTC who hasn't had their thyroid levels checked, I would recommend it. Hypothyroidism is extremely common... to the point where the most commonly prescribed medication in the US is Levothyroxine, the medication used to treat hypothyroidism. In the book I am reading, it says that because it is such a common issue and because it causes infertility when not treated, it should be tested on a routine basis for women experiencing fertility issues. However, it isn't always tested and can go on undetected for long periods of time. While some people with hypothyroidism experience really extreme symptoms, some people don't experience any symptoms at all, or some women experience symptoms but don't know that it is their thyroid that is causing it. And even subclinical thyroid issues can cause infertility and miscarriage.


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## BelleNuit

I had my thyroid levels checked when I first started TTC and it was all normal, literally the only "abnormal" result we've been given is lining and the doc told me not to worry about it as it was borderline. Ugh. Although I do recall having slightly low/borderline platelets. I wonder if that would affect ttc

Glad your levels were good lar! That's a pleasant surprise!


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## LAR83

Belle, that reminds me of something else I was reading. TSH levels need to be a lot lower for women TTC than women who aren't TTC, and a lot of times doctors are misinformed about where TSH levels really need to be when TTC. There have been many cases where doctors checked a woman's thyroid, said everything looked fine for TTC, and then they ended up experiencing ongoing fertility issues. Then after getting a second opinion from a different doctor, they were told that their thyroid levels were too high for TTC and received treatment. Right after getting treatment and lowering their levels, they were able to conceive. I am not in any way insinuating that that scenario fits you. I am just sharing it because I think it's important information that may be able to help someone somewhere.


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## BelleNuit

Ya, I was thinking I'll have to try to dig up my old lab report (I usually ask for a print out), or ask my doc to look it up because I've heard that as well. Its worth looking in to. I honestly can't remember at all what the values were anymore except that they were in the normal range. Although either way, that was taken December 2015 so might be out of date by now anyway


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## LAR83

Yes, knowledge is power when TTC! The more we know, the better.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Yeah it sucks, Earth. The kids are with us half the time and she always tells them to "ask their father" when they want or need something even though she gets half his pay check. They are 13 and 14 - there is NO reason she shouldn't be working. But he just wanted to end the dragged out divorce so he settled rather than taking it all the way to trial which in and of itself is very costly. Alimony ends in 3 years (which is 2.5 times child support) and child support ends for the older in 3.5 years and the younger in 5 years.

my sons dad doesnt work either. He gets disability for being overweight. DSs bday is in Feb but you have to pay until they are out of school, thus May...so they get an extra $300 from me that way. :wacko:

---------


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## Ask4joy

I had my thyroid levels checked almost 2 years ago because I have some symptoms that might point to hypothyroidism and have a family history but my levels were all good. Do you think I should ask to have it re-checked since it was 2 years ago? I'm thinking now that the symptoms were more likely due to low progesterone (low bbt, sensitivity to cold, dry skin, irritability, weight gain - which I've managed to lose since dieting - I've lost 15 pounds since January!).


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## BelleNuit

Did you notice if those symptoms went away when you were taking progesterone supplements? If not they might be caused by something else and it may be worth looking in to


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## BelleNuit

Well ladies I'm feeling next to no pms symptoms this month, aside from Monday when I was super duper irritable. Last couple cycles my bbs ached (like bad) from 6 dpo onwards. I figured it was due to the femara as its not something I typically deal with. Well I took femara this cycle too (same dose and days as last 2 cycles) and I'm not feeling anything. Bbs feel completely normal and I'm not having any other pms symptoms. I've never been pregnant (as far as I know, I never test) so I have nothing to compare to. All I know is some cycles I have crazy pms and some cycles I have nothing at all, and either way I always end up with AF.

Maybe my body has just adjusted to the femara and that's why no pms?


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## LC89

Lar , my levels was still high. It was 4.9 this time , last time it was 5.6 so the .25 MG isn't working enough. My FM doctor upped my MG to the .50 and told me to come back in 4 weeks to do more blood work. I was trying to get at least the .75 MG but she wouldn't do that yet because she said she don't want to give me to much.
She also said that my last blood test they done a panel and checked my T3 and T4 and they was normal this time but my TSH was still high. I don't understand how my TSH is still a 4.9 and the other levels are ok. Has this ever happened to you or is this normal?

Your TSH levels sound very good for this IUI :happydance:

CD 60 Today and just now on day 7 of Provera. I'm so impatient and ready to see AF. Hopefully she will come soon for us Earth and Steph.

With my TSH levels still so high should I take my clomid this cycle or wait and see what my levels are in 4 weeks?


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## Ask4joy

Belle - maybe no symptoms is a good sign! My breasts always hurts after O except when I'm on clomid...only sore nipples. Not sure why that is?

Bbt improved on and after progesterone. Same with spotting. My skin has been dry my whole life and I don't think the depression/irritability is thyroid related but who knows.


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## Ask4joy

Just found out my sister in law did not respond to the new immunotherapy drug they tried and her lung cancer has progressed significantly since her last scan 6 weeks ago. :cry:


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## BelleNuit

Oh Ask I am so so so sorry to hear that :( Lung cancer is an awful disease. Do they live nearby? I hope so, so that you can be a support for them during this awful time.


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## Ask4joy

Thank you Belle. Yes they are close by. She is going to try a new gene-targeted drug therapy next but it only has about a 40% success rate for about 3-6 months on average, though some people stay on it with success much longer. I hope she beats the odds. She is only 35 and never smoked! My nieces are 1.5 and 6. Breaks my heart into pieces...and really puts my "problems" into perspective.


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## BelleNuit

Things like that do put it into perspective. It's so much harder when there are young kids involved too. It doesn't make sense sometimes why some people get lung cancer and others don't. I hope that the new treatment she tries will help give her a good quality of life for as long as possible


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## steph1607

Oh Ask, I am so sorry to hear that. My family and I have all seen how shit cancer is first hand, and it really is such a cruel disease. Love to you and your family <3


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## LAR83

Ask, so sorry to hear that about your sister-in-law. that must be so difficult for everyone in your family. i hope that she does beat the odds and have lasting success with any new txs that they try. To your earlier question, not to make it sound like I am dxing everyone with a hypothyroid condition, but I certainly think it is worth getting checked out if you haven't in 2 years especially now that you are TTC and TSH levels need to be much lower. There is a connection between having a hypothyroid and having low progesterone, so you never know. I want you to have as much success as possible with your IUIs so I think a simple test like that is definitely worth it.

Belle, fx crossed for this cycle. that would be amazing if you fell pregnant your last cycle before IUI!

LC, glad you are getting tx for your thyroid now because even though your levels aren't great, you should be fine once you increase the dosage. I am not sure how likely it would be for you to get pregnant when your TSH levels are where they are at, but if you increase your Levo right away I would go for taking the clomid just in case. My increased dosage worked a lot faster than I expected. Also, if you don't already, I would recommend taking your Levo on an empty stomach with no other vitamins/pills and with no food or liquid other than water for an hour. I have heard that helps with better absorption. Best of luck!


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## OnErth&InHvn

no more provera so hopefully AF WILL HURRY UP!! :coffee:

Cancer does suck!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks everyone - it's a very difficult time. Glad we decided not to do IUI this month. DH just took our dog to the vet today because of this nose infection she seems to have and the vet was concerned as said it "could" be Lupus. He's going to show the dermatologist and get back to us. I mean...seriously? I'm starting to think I've been cursed. How is it possible for this many stressful things to happen all at once? I feel like I'm in a state of disbelief and feel paralyzed.

In ttc news...cd 10 and have had more ewcm the last 4 days than I can ever recall. I read that antibiotics can increase ewcm. Hope I O soon and it helps us out.

I'll ask about having my thyroid checked again but last time my doctor said my numbers were perfect...


----------



## LAR83

Ask4joy said:


> Thanks everyone - it's a very difficult time. Glad we decided not to do IUI this month. DH just took our dog to the vet today because of this nose infection she seems to have and the vet was concerned as said it "could" be Lupus. He's going to show the dermatologist and get back to us. I mean...seriously? I'm starting to think I've been cursed. How is it possible for this many stressful things to happen all at once? I feel like I'm in a state of disbelief and feel paralyzed.
> 
> In ttc news...cd 10 and have had more ewcm the last 4 days than I can ever recall. I read that antibiotics can increase ewcm. Hope I O soon and it helps us out.
> 
> I'll ask about having my thyroid checked again but last time my doctor said my numbers were perfect...

 :hugs:


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## Norelisa

So sorry to hear about your sister in law, Ask, and also about all the other stuff happening :/ cancer is really horrible.. 

The same for you Belle, not receiving support from your mother is hard even if you "knew" she would not be that supportive.. 

We are on our way back from holidays, my temps are as usual jumping up and down.. And I used a clear blue stick this morning which turned out negative (low).(cd13). At least hubby won't be travelling during o this or next cycle as he has handed in his resignation.. We are officially moving from Thailand to France in June this year. I guess we are both sad about it, haha, but too late now. We both thought we wanted to go.. Ah well, they have a rescue center for animals in the city we are going to, so hopefully I can find some friends by volunteering there.. And I'll adopt my little (old and fat, deaf and almost blind) Charlie and bring him to France :)


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Nore, it does make me sad even though I knew it would be that way. My mom was pregnant with me at 16, married at 17 and and had my brother shortly after. I don't think it was the life she wanted and given the choice she wouldn't have been a mother. She told me once that she regretted having children. 

But my goodness, you must be so sad to be leaving Bangkok! Moving to France will be another kind of adventure too! I think volunteering is a great way to make friends with like minded interests! Goodness your life seems so exotic to me haha. Glad DH won't be away during O. Are you pursing any treatment these next 2 cycles, or going natural cycles until after the move? 

Goodness, I have to take a pregnancy test tomorrow (11/12 dpo) and I'm pretty nervous. It's my brothers wedding tomorrow so testing will be the responsible thing to do. I just hate negatives SO MUCH, and I have no reason to believe it won't be negative yet again. I honestly don't remember the last time I tested because of this. Well if it is negative at least I will be able to drink and have a good time, and we'll be starting IUI and cycle monitoring a few days afterwards. So hopefully we'll get some answers as to what the heck is going on! I truly hope all of this has been caused by a thin lining which will respond to treatment. I guess we'll find out.... what, with my luck the lining will be friggen "borderline" thin LOL


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## LAR83

Good luck Belle! Hoping for some good news tomorrow! How many DPO are you now?


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## BelleNuit

I'm 10/11 dpo today, but I think 10 dpo is most likely. I've been having off and on cramps/twinges all week, bbs just started hurting a bit yesterday but it's pretty mild. I'm really not holding my breath. I might die of shock if I got a positive tomorrow.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Nore. I'm glad you are going to adopt Charlie. He's a lucky kitty for that. I hope all goes smoothly with the move. 

Hope you get a surprise Belle, but if not I hope you drink it up and have fun tomorrow.

Finally heard back from my RE's office - nurse said my RE does not recommend additional testing at this time (regarding the tissue I passed) but does recommend that I double my clomid dose next cycle to 100mg. Yay I didn't even have to ask!

LAR - how many dpo are you? How are you doing?


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## OnErth&InHvn

3d post Provera. Waiting...

I did order some more cloth pads for AF. I needed liners and super/heavy. 
------
Its a rainy, cold weekend here. Nothing exciting planned.


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## LAR83

ask, i have an ultrasound scheduled for sunday (cd12) to see how my follicles and lining look. if all goes well, I will get the ovidrel shot that day and will do the iui on Monday. i am curious to see how the ultrasound goes since i took the femara for 8 days instead of 5 (w/o telling the RE's office). glad you get to increase your clomid... hopefully you get an extra egg or two to work with!


----------



## Norelisa

Belle, it will be natural for the next few months until we get into the French system again.. I have nooo idea how it works, but I'll make sure to get all the paperwork from the hospital and the clinic that I have been visiting to prove that we have tried for more than a year... hopefully we won't have to wait too long to get help..

Ask, thanks :) I think it will be a stressful month but trying to enjoy the last month in Asia :) And so happy to bring my Charlie, we'll find him a french friend once we are settled in :)

I actually do have 5 clomid tablets that I got from the hospital, and I have some natural progesterone.. I don't think I will be using the progesterone this cycle since the temps have been all over the place again.. and I only have for one cycle.. I might do some research though, if I can buy it in France then I will go for it either now or next cycle when still in Thailand.


----------



## BelleNuit

Well BFN this morning on FRER. I'm 11/12 dpo and about 80% of POS tests show up by now. Can't say I'm surprised. Looks like it's IUI for me.


----------



## Ask4joy

Uhg sorry Belle. It's still early but I know what you mean. Hope you have fun at the wedding tonight.

I got super pissed last night when DH and I went out for drinks and we were talking to the bartender and somehow the topic of kids came up (I think I said something about having 2 teens in the house - DH's sons). She made the comment, "So I'm assuming you don't want kids?" Ummm...why would you make that assumption? 1. I do not look like I'm too old to have children and 2. You have no idea what my story is. People can be so clueless!


----------



## LAR83

Sorry, Belle :( 

Ask, what did you say to her when she said that to you? I feel like I would just want to tell the person the truth... "well actually I am going through fertility treatment right now because I am having difficulty getting pregnant on my own"... I feel like that oughta shut the person up and make her think twice about what comments she makes to other people. Then again, I might just want to shut down and not say anything since it's none of the person's business anyway.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Just went to Olive Garden for dinner and the waitress made sure to point out i was pregnant. 

#NOTPregnant.......:growlmad::growlmad::growlmad::growlmad:


----------



## LAR83

erth, wow! she must have been pretty embarrassed when you told her you weren't pregnant! people really need to be more careful about what they say.


----------



## Ask4joy

Ugh sorry Earth! Stupid people...

LAR - yeah I should have had a good come back but was caught off guard and just said "I do want children and we're working on it".


----------



## steph1607

Oh Ask, that must have been infuriating. Why can people engage their brains before the speak. For some reason, I seem to be going through a phase at work where people's answer to me for everything comes down to the fact I don't have children:

'Oh you can do star jumps without weeing yourself? Yeah, that's because you don't have children'

'Oh you think that baby's cute? Well that's because you don't know what they can really be like'

'You look nice in that dress'
Another person: 'oh she should just wait until she has children'

I won't be held responsible if I snap soon!!!

In other news, AF arrived this morning so looks like I'll be starting Clomid again tomorrow.


----------



## Norelisa

I finally got a peak on clearblue on CD16.. Guess bd tonight, and tomorrow or day after.. 

Since yesterday I'm brewing something, sore throat, headache and blocked nose. Guess milk and honey will be on my menu today..


----------



## Norelisa

Eh, I'm supposed to stop Vitex after ovulation.. or?


----------



## BelleNuit

Nore I think you can take vitex throughout your cycle. But maybe someone else knows better? I've never taken vitex before. 

Well I've been spotting since Saturday, I'm expecting AF to show tomorrow. When it does I'll be calling the clinic to set up the IUI cycle. DH was disappointed again this cycle. Somehow he always thinks I'm pregnant. Poor guy.


----------



## LAR83

Aww Belle,..sorry that ur getting signs of AF. That is sweet that dh continues to remain hopeful and convinced each cycle, but that must be rough on him. Good luck with ur IUI cycle if AF does show. How was the wedding?


----------



## LC89

Took my last Provera Saturday now I'm on CD 65... still no AF :shrug: but my back hurts and my BB's are sore. Hopefully AF will show soon.

Awww Ask I would have been caught off guard also , I wouldn't have known what to say. I can never respond when people say things like that to me , I just get sad and stop talking.

Earth how are you? Has AF arrived yet?


----------



## steph1607

LC I took my final Norethisterone on Wednesday and got AF yesterday - I guess you should expect it any time over the next few days. 

Started the new higher dosage of Clomid today, was already feeling crappy from the Norethisterone so it's like a double whammy!


----------



## LC89

I hope so, I have been feeling like AF is coming all morning so hopefully soon. 
I will start clomid at 50MG what mg are you on now? I haven't takin it in so long I don't remember how bad it made me feel but I do remember the hot flashes it gave me :dohh: 

If my AF would ever hurry up we could be VERY close this cycle :happydance: :hugs:


----------



## steph1607

I know, would be great to have someone taking it at the same time! &#128522; I'm now on 100mg CD2-6, really hoping it makes me O this time, but ridiculously, I already feel like it's not going to work. I think it's just because I'm feeling low and negative about everything &#128532;


----------



## LC89

Yes it would be great, I super spot symptoms and sometime they might just be in my head lol so if we are close this cycle we can compare symptoms so maybe I will not symptom spot so many in my head symptoms lol. I have been feeling the same way about the clomid but I keep trying to tell my self its going to work and one day we will have our sweet little babies in our arms and this long crazy journey will all be worth it. I have my down days and lately I have had more down then up because I cant even get AF to come so I can even attempt the clomid. :cry:


----------



## LAR83

Yesterday I had my ultrasound and got my ovidrel shot. Increasing the length of time I took the Femara didn't do anything. I just had one follicle. Oh well. I had the IUI today. DH provided two samples in one cup, one after another, if you know what I mean. There were 123 million motile sperm, which is not much higher than the usual count. Maybe a bunch of them died from the first sample? I read that if the man does it twice within one hour, the quality of the second sample may be better and could increase chances of conceiving. Who knows? We'll see. Had a full bladder too, which was not fun! I had to pee like 10 times in the REs office because I drank too much and kept letting a little more out. Then almost peed myself on the way home I had to go so badly! Now I will be lying on my back all day. Oh the things we do to get pregnant...


----------



## steph1607

Oh yes I know that all too well- a couple of weeks ago I woke up with a sore throat and I was like oh my god this is it, I'm pregnant &#128514;
Really hope I get some O symptoms in the next couple of weeks, I don't care how horrible they are! Just need some kind of sign that it will all be worth it in the end. My AF the four times I have taken the Norethisterone has been basically non existent, which is just another way I can torture myself and think that even if the Clomid works, I probably couldn't sustain a pregnancy.

Oh Lar, that does not sound fun. I hate the feeling of bursting to go to the loo, must be even worse when someone is fiddling around down there too! Sending lots of luck your way &#128522;


----------



## Ask4joy

FX for you LAR! Do you know what the count was after the wash? Do you know what your next step plan is? Hopefully this will be your month!

OPK was almost positive this morning...I'm sure it will be positive when I get home. I've had INSANE amounts of ewcm for a week! I'm guessing the antibiotics increased it?

One of my friends and co-workers who is also 34 just told me she is 10 weeks pregnant with her 3rd and they "weren't even trying". She knows I've been trying over a year and am doing IUI. I pretended to be happy for her and said "wish it were that easy for me". Ugh! AND my 93 year old grandmother said to me yesterday, "so you aren't planing to have a baby right away?" I told her we are trying but haven't gotten lucky yet. :(


----------



## LAR83

Hi Ask... the 123 mil was the post wash count. I am meeting with my RE tomorrow to discuss next steps if this doesn't work. Although she was the one doing my US yesterday and she mentioned that since my insurance only covers 4 IUIS that it's best to go for IVF after this. I figured that would be the plan but I am not fully on board yet until I can get more of my questions answered. Looks like you, me, and Nor are all are the same spot in our cycle. I was told to test on the 23rd.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> Took my last Provera Saturday now I'm on CD 65... still no AF :shrug: but my back hurts and my BB's are sore. Hopefully AF will show soon.
> 
> Awww Ask I would have been caught off guard also , I wouldn't have known what to say. I can never respond when people say things like that to me , I just get sad and stop talking.
> 
> Earth how are you? Has AF arrived yet?

Im impatiently waiting. CD109. Last Provera was 5 days ago. No AF. 



LC89 said:


> I hope so, I have been feeling like AF is coming all morning so hopefully soon.
> I will start clomid at 50MG what mg are you on now? I haven't takin it in so long I don't remember how bad it made me feel but I do remember the hot flashes it gave me :dohh:
> 
> If my AF would ever hurry up we could be VERY close this cycle :happydance: :hugs:

Ill be on 50mg Clomid too.


----------



## Ask4joy

LAR - that sounds like a stellar count! Last month DH's post wash count was 15 million and the nurse said they like to see 5-10 million so we had a little "extra". 

Earth - hope AF shows up soon!


----------



## BelleNuit

Wow Lar that's a fantastic count! Too bad the extra days of femara didn't do too much. I have my fingers crossed so tightly for you this cycle!!!!

CD 1 today and this is the first cycle in forever where AF started mid day. Lots of mild cramping today. Baseline ultrasound booked for Wednesday! They get them done early in the AM, which is super nice!! Hopefully I won't have to be late for work!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> LAR - that sounds like a stellar count! Last month DH's post wash count was 15 million and the nurse said they like to see 5-10 million so we had a little "extra".
> 
> Earth - hope AF shows up soon!

I hope but id be surprised honestly. IF she doesnt, it would take 3-4wks for estrogen to arrive and then id take that for about 10days and then ANOTHER round of Provera-- thus pushing me into July or so until AF finally arrives.....:cry:


----------



## BelleNuit

Oh no Earth... I don't think I've ever hoped for AF to show for someone before! I also don't think I've ever heard of provera not working. Sorry all of this seems to be happening!


----------



## Norelisa

Lar, same thing happened to me during my iui, haha, I normally have to use the bathroom rather frequently when drinking anything, so when I had to go before the iui they first wouldn't let me. So in total I went 7-8 times while waiting and they kept making me drink.. 

I don't really have a fever but a little higher day temps than usual with sore throat and blocked nose. It's getting in the way of my temping haha, what kind of problem is that?! Haha. 

We will hopefully be able to bd tonight too, but obviously hubby went to play soccer with my friends (yes haha, my friends from the shelter) and he hurt his ankle.. 

I've read somewhere that in France you get 6 iui and 2 ivfs. But it will take a few months to get into the system, as I've already been into it when studying I hope it won't be too long and hard..


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Oh no Earth... I don't think I've ever hoped for AF to show for someone before! I also don't think I've ever heard of provera not working. Sorry all of this seems to be happening!

Its rare for it to not work ( its due to no lining OR a blockage usually) but it does happen.


----------



## LAR83

Nor, I am glad I am not the only one! I also think I pee way too often throughout the day. My re's office doesn't recommend that I drink water before my IUI; I was just doing it on my own. Plus I wasn't drinking much water when I was in their office, but I drank a lot of water at home and before I went in. So I felt really embarrassed because I was going to the bathroom every few minutes and they were probably wondering what the heck was wrong with me. Oh well. I am just glad that is over. If I did an IUI again, I would NOT do that again. Maybe I'd drink some water, but nothing like that. I hate the feeling of having to pee really badly and needing to hold it. I rather have menstrual cramps. And that's saying a lot.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

I have an overactive bladder, i cant imagine drinking that much, i would literally pee! 

--------------------
Question:

IF i dont have a lining or much of one, wouldnt I spot or have tinged CM? I mean you have a lining of some sort right? Its just not thick? 

It builds up, then comes off... but when i had AF back in Jan and nothing since, SOME sort of lining should be in there right?? :shrug:

Someone needs to come out with a out of pocket Ultrasound place!! :haha:


----------



## steph1607

Earth I'm afraid I have literally no idea- my 'AF' started Sunday, with just kind of really dark red clotting, barely anything yesterday other than a tiny amount of browny coloured discharge, and nothing so far today. I still remember during my ultrasound in January, the consultant said 'the lining looks good' so all these stupid AFs I've had since then have baffled me. Why oh why can our bodies just not work as they're supposed to!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Earth I'm afraid I have literally no idea- my 'AF' started Sunday, with just kind of really dark red clotting, barely anything yesterday other than a tiny amount of browny coloured discharge, and nothing so far today. I still remember during my ultrasound in January, the consultant said 'the lining looks good' so all these stupid AFs I've had since then have baffled me. Why oh why can our bodies just not work as they're supposed to!

Im glad you had a sign of something, so that is good!!


----------



## steph1607

Yeah, at least it was something. It is concerning to me though - the doctor says that I count that as day 1 so I did start the Clomid yesterday but it just makes me convinced it's not going to work!


----------



## LC89

AF arrived this morning so CD1. I have never cramped this bad with AF , could it be this bad because I skipped a month of AF?
This will be my first month temping, when should I start temping?

Earth hopefully AF will show soon, sorry it will take so long for the estrogen to arrive , I don't have any estrogen meds but I do have extra Provera if you ever need it. I don't know what's going on with my RE. He always write the scripts with alot extra each month. :hugs:


----------



## BelleNuit

Earthwhen was your last provera pill? I read it can take 2-3 weeks after the last pill. Some ladies who don't respond to provera respond to aygestin. I can't imagine that you would have no lining! That doesn't make sense to me! 

LC do you have a general idea of when you might O? I start temping 3 days before I think I will O, so usually CD 10 for me


----------



## LC89

I usually O around CD 17-18. So I should start temping on CD 13-14 just to be safe?


----------



## BelleNuit

That sounds about right LC. sorry that AF arrived!


----------



## LC89

I have been on google for days trying to see the best days to take clomid and what is the pros and cons of the different times of taking clomid. My RE wants me to take it for 6 days on days 5-10. Some people are saying taking that late makes your O day late and also people say taking it days 3-8 produces more follicles. Is any of this true or has anyone experienced any of this with clomid?


----------



## BelleNuit

days 3-7 creates more eggs which is good for people with unexplained infertility who need more targets

days 5-9 creates a better quality single egg, which is good for people with pcos who otherwise might end up creating too many eggs on the other protocol.


----------



## steph1607

I'm on CD2-6... wonder why!


----------



## Norelisa

steph1607 said:


> I'm on CD2-6... wonder why!

Mine also put me on 2-6 the first time, and I got lots of follicles the second time. Wonder what they'll do in France, just started looking into what we need to do to get into the system there..


----------



## Ask4joy

I've always done cd 3-7 but only had 1 follicle the months I was monitored. Hopefully 100mg next month will give me more!

Think I'm Oing today. Glad it wasn't a late O after 2 long cycles!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Earthwhen was your last provera pill? I read it can take 2-3 weeks after the last pill. Some ladies who don't respond to provera respond to aygestin. I can't imagine that you would have no lining! That doesn't make sense to me!
> 
> LC do you have a general idea of when you might O? I start temping 3 days before I think I will O, so usually CD 10 for me

6d ago. I have heard of that, i can get it online for $30! Ill give the Provera a bit more and then order it

I found Estradiol and it will be on its way Thursday! 

I have enough Provera for 2 more times. Thanks LC


----------



## BelleNuit

Yay for O day Ask!

Nore if France covers all of that fertility treatment the move will be worth it even if it does take a litte while to get into their system!

Earth sounds like you have a great plan! You'll get that AF started one way or another!

Tomorrow I go in for my baseline ultrasound and DH will be joining me because we have to have someone witness us sign a consent form for IUI. I really didn't want to have someone from our personal lives witness that because we aren't planning to tell people that we are doing IUI. People here just don't understand infertility treatments and I've already been on the receiving end of many crude *(and hurtful) jokes. I just don't want to open myself up to more of that.


----------



## Norelisa

Yes, although I haven't found any recent sources saying these things are included in France.. Sigh. But we'll give it a go and hopefully a baby on the way before 2019...

A bit depressed, cd18 and my temp didn't rise this morning either.. Frustrating!


----------



## SpartyMom05

Hello ladies, I'm not sure if your group is geared towards this - so point me in another direction if you know of other groups that might be better suited.

Today is CD1, and I'll be doing a Hybrid Femara cycle this time. This is my first cycle with any sort of assisted conception. I have my baseline ultrasound scheduled for Friday morning. When I had trouble trying for baby 1, there were recurrent early losses but it just seemed to be a lining issue so with some progesterone supplements I was able to get a bean to stick :) But this time there appears to be more issues tied to my PCOS, so we aren't waiting as long to be more aggressive.

I'm feeling conflicted emotions at this stage. I'm frustrated to be here, but also a little relieved to being proactively "doing something about it" with the help of a fertility clinic. 

Any words of advice to a femara/injectibles newbie?!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Welcome! !

I THINK AF is trying to start!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe. We BD this morning, it didn't feel more rough than usual but I just now have the weird thing where it's CM/juices/blood!


----------



## BelleNuit

Welcome ttc1, I think you're in the right place :) I also felt conflicted emotions when we first started medicated cycles, now even more so that we are starting IUI. It's all part of the process though and it will be worth it no matter what the outcome is. 

Woo hoo Earth that AF seems to be on its way!!!

Had ultrasound today, antral follicle count was 19, so pretty average. Glad ovarian reserve seems to be normal! I was told to use clear blue OPKs (not the digitals) and to come back on CD 10 for another ultrasound. They don't do bloodwork for femara cycles apparently because of the effects it has on the hormones. Will be starting femara again today.

What was interesting is that there was a bit of a corpus luteum cyst on my left ovary, and I had cramping on the left side during O. So now I know my O cramps actually mean something lol


----------



## LC89

:happydance: YAY EARTH! Hopefully she will show now :happydance:


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Its enough i need a liner but not enough to really change it much. :shrug: Im not making it CD1 yet unless it sticks around or picks up. :thumbup:


----------



## LC89

Hello Everyone I have a question.

What is the best time of the day to take Clomid?

I have been reading about the side effects and I was wondering if taking it at night would be better so I could possibly sleep through the side effects or at least some of them.


Earth how are you feeling? Has AF showed up fully today ?


----------



## steph1607

LC from what I've heard, the evening is the best time. For some reason, this week I started my first tablets at midday so I've had to carry that on all work. I've had some not very nice side effects this week, so definitely try the evening.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

*AF IS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



Starting 50mg clomid tomorrow cd3. 

-I take mine at bed &#128521;


----------



## Ask4joy

Hooray Earth! That's great news! 

Welcome TTC!

Belle - sounds like you're off to a good start! I love knowing what's going on inside my body.

I think I'm 1-2dpo. Heading to Chicago tomorrow morning for my cousin's wedding - in need of a weekend away!


----------



## LAR83

Woohoo for AF Erth!!!


----------



## Norelisa

Yay, new cycle for you on earth :))


Afm, I'm a bit confused, FF indicates that I'm now suddenly 5dpo, which I'm finding hard to believe. I've tried many of the settings too just for checking. If it is correct then I ovulated before I got a peak on digital clearblue... Huh?!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Norelisa said:


> Yay, new cycle for you on earth :))
> 
> 
> Afm, I'm a bit confused, FF indicates that I'm now suddenly 5dpo, which I'm finding hard to believe. I've tried many of the settings too just for checking. If it is correct then I ovulated before I got a peak on digital clearblue... Huh?!

You're missing temps, that's why.


----------



## Norelisa

OnErth&InHvn said:


> Norelisa said:
> 
> 
> Yay, new cycle for you on earth :))
> 
> 
> Afm, I'm a bit confused, FF indicates that I'm now suddenly 5dpo, which I'm finding hard to believe. I've tried many of the settings too just for checking. If it is correct then I ovulated before I got a peak on digital clearblue... Huh?!
> 
> You're missing temps, that's why.Click to expand...

I guess, I'll undiscard them and see what happens.. I also have to untick the fever button.. Thanks :)


----------



## Norelisa

Myyyp!! Still changing the o date from no O detected to 3dpo to 5 dpo. I don't know what setting to use, haha &#55357;&#56834;


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Hmm, I don't know!


----------



## Ask4joy

I usually rely on FAM if I'm getting different O dates on different settings. I've read it's the most reliable if you were consistent about temping. Advanced takes opks into account more than FAM does. I'd take into account temperature, peak reading and CM. Most women ovulate around 36 hours after the LH surge (give or take) which is why my RE's office schedules IUIs the day after a positive opk.


----------



## BelleNuit

Nore I'm betting on CD 18 being the day you O'd! Let's see what your temp tomorrow does!

Well the leaves are finally starting to pop out and things are getting green :) I love this time of year! 

So if I normally O on CD 14 I'm guessing they would do the IUI on CD 13? That would be next Saturday (May 20th) for me. My birthday is May 19th, so kind of funny timing. I think it hit my DH pretty hard on Wednesday (first ultrasound) that we are doing treatments now. He got right drunk that night and started talking about how he thinks its all his fault and that he drinks too much alcohol and coffee and that he is under too much stress which is causing all of our problems. I don't think that is the cause of all of the problems lol, but I do think poor lifestyle choices contribute and he really does drink a lot of alcohol. So we are going to up our game with mocktails this summer haha


----------



## Ask4joy

Belle - I think they try to schedule the IUI the same day as O (at least my clinic does). I read that IUI has the highest chance of success when done within 6 hours on either side of ovulation.

It sounds like your DH's sperm are fine but it's true that oxidative stress from lifestyle choices can impact sperm DNA fragmentation. Then again my friend and co-worker who is also 34 is pregnant with #3 and her husband is 40 and a pot head and drinks a bunch. We are "taking it easy" this month...I'm planning to have some drinks at my cousin's wedding this weekend and have been having a coffee here and there if I want it. I've hardly had any caffeine in the last year and obviously it didn't do me any good!


----------



## BelleNuit

I agree Ask, I'm starting to think lifestyle is having less of an impact as the changes I've made haven't amounted to anything. There still has to be something going on though for us to have gone so long without any pregnancy!

Okay so our IUI may happen on the Sunday the 21st then. Good to know! I'm glad I've asked for the trigger as I think it will help with the timing.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

first night of Clomid done. :D 

As for a Provera AF, i havent found it to be horrific like i read some have! I was a bit nervous. 

-------
Nothing exciting this weekend. Its Mothers Day but we dont really celebrate it. Its just another day here.


----------



## BelleNuit

Yay Earth! Glad you're back in the game!


----------



## steph1607

Excited for you Earth! Where is it you live? 

Today is CD7 for me, finished my final Clomid tablet yesterday, now just to wait and see...


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Excited for you Earth! Where is it you live?
> 
> Today is CD7 for me, finished my final Clomid tablet yesterday, now just to wait and see...

Southern Ohio.


----------



## BelleNuit

Good luck Steph!

CD 7 for me so on my last day of femara. Although I have to wait till bedtime to take it lol.


----------



## Ask4joy

How have the side effects been, Belle? I'm a little nervous about going to 100mg clomid next month but kinda excited too.


----------



## BelleNuit

Haven't had any SE this go around! Some twinging but that's about it. I'm super excited to see how the 100mg goes for you! You're combining it with IUI next month?


----------



## Ask4joy

No side effects sounds great! Yes 100mg clomid + IUI next month. Doing progesterone again this month but don't have my hopes up too much...been "bad" this month - just needed a break from trying to do everything perfectly - but it's hard not to still hope for a surprise!


----------



## Norelisa

Grrr, happened again, I wrote a looong post and then "token has expired".. Haha, I think I'm going slightly mad here.. 

We are at the moment packing so kinda living in a mess, good thing is we are heading down south again as hubby is on garden leave. 

So since my long story got deleted, here is the short version :
Found old French magazine. Read it. Found article on ivf. Results that I wasn't aware of (I haven't looked much into ivf as I feel it should be lightyears away, but I guess it's closer than I think) 

1. You can get a blood test to check dna in current cycle eggs. If no good quality you can wait until next cycle. 
2. Better inseminate after 5 days after sperm meets egg. Up to 73% success rate.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

AF is gone. Day 4 of Clomid. :D 
:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## BelleNuit

Ask you need those breaks when you've been ttc for awhile! I'm stoked to see what the higher dose of clomid does for you next month!

Nore sounds like you are just up to your ears in packing! And then bnb has the nerve to not cooperate! lol. Those results sound interesting. I'm not sure I fully understand the one about inseminating after 5 days though?

Earth woo hoo that AF is done and gone! Now just to get through your clomid doses! Are you taking them until CD 7 or 9?

I go in for my next ultrasound tomorrow. I'm hoping everything is chugging along smoothly!


----------



## LC89

:happydance: Last day of clomid.

The hot flashes is no joke. :shock: I don't remember them being this bad.

:dust:
FX for everyone this cycle, cant wait to see some :bfp: in our group.

:dust:


----------



## steph1607

Eurgh with you on the hot flashes front LC. Sunday evening I just suddenly started burning up and had to literally rip off my clothes and lie on the wooden flooring! Goodness knows how dramatic I'll be when I'm menopausal. 

CD10 today, 4 days post final Clomid tablet. No signs of O to report as of yet.


----------



## Ask4joy

Nore - do you mean there is a higher success rate when you transfer the embryo at 5 days? I think I've read that too.

Earth - glad to hear your cycle is moving along!

Belle - keep us posted! Hopefully you'll have more than 1 nice big 

The hot flashes and moodiness on clomid is no joke! I'm scared of what is going to happen on 100mg next cycle.

I felt like I was getting another UTI this morning. Actually, I've never been diagnosed with one and am guessing I won't this time either. Going to the doc in a few minutes. Intense burning after urination. I was in tears this morning and had to call off work. I think I'm 6-7 dpo but my temps aren't really looking good...FF has been unsure about giving me crosshairs, which is a first. Anyway, I've noticed this has happened many times during the middle of my 2ww...a day or a few of irritation/burning when I pee. Maybe due to hormone fluctuations? Last time they said I had microscopic blood in my urine but the culture found no bacteria. Ugh!!!


----------



## BelleNuit

How frustrating Ask! When I get a UTI it's a matter of a couple hours from when I first feel that tingle to where I'm peeing almost straight blood and I'm crying in pain. So I always get antibiotics as quickly as I can! 

Taking my femara at 9:30 PM really helped. Got no SE, but also might be my body has adapted to this dose.


----------



## SpartyMom05

Last dose of femara this morning (CD7 today). I didn't notice any side effects from that over the past few days, so thats good. I'm doing my first Menopur injectible tonight. Feeling nervous about it...it really gets serious now. 

I need to find a way to calm my butterflies (not so much from the idea of a shot itself - which yes is a new concept to me, but more from the idea that the chances of multiples becomes a real risk and the whole concept of triggering my body to do things it wouldn't otherwise do is kind of freaky).


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Ask you need those breaks when you've been ttc for awhile! I'm stoked to see what the higher dose of clomid does for you next month!
> 
> Nore sounds like you are just up to your ears in packing! And then bnb has the nerve to not cooperate! lol. Those results sound interesting. I'm not sure I fully understand the one about inseminating after 5 days though?
> 
> Earth woo hoo that AF is done and gone! Now just to get through your clomid doses! Are you taking them until CD 7 or 9?
> 
> I go in for my next ultrasound tomorrow. I'm hoping everything is chugging along smoothly!

7.. I think. Whatever today is. i think 7, lol. :haha:


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## Norelisa

Belle, i meant what Ask explained, transfer of the embryo after 5 days :) read it in French so wasn't sure of the terminology in French. They also say fiv not ivf which is confusing.


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## BelleNuit

That makes so much more sense Nore lol. My poor tired brain this morning couldn't figure out. I blame it on the lack of caffeine haha.


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## OnErth&InHvn

50mg and I didn't really have SE. I mean, nothing that jumped out. 

I'm wondering if that's normal for me + clomid or that it won't work?


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## steph1607

I had side effects when I was on 50mg but it didn't work. Had them again with 100mg


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## BelleNuit

CD 10 ultrasound today showed 3 follicles. One 14mm and two that were 11-12mm. So will probably end up with just the one egg. Lining was 5.5mm which I think might be on the thinner side. But it has time to plump up a bit. Doc said it had a nice trilaminar appearance which is good. Will be going back on Friday for another ultrasound and will probably get the trigger shot then. IUI will likely happen Saturday


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## LAR83

Sounds good belle! Fx for you this cycle. 

I am about 9dpo today. No "symptoms" to speak of really. I had tightness in my chest today.. it hurt when I was breathing in for a while, but that is better. Had me concerned bc I have never experienced that before but I doubt it is related to pregnancy. I have mostly been able to put it out of my mind that I am in tww right now. If AF shows, I decided in June I will not be doing any procedures. I will take clomid and do timed intercourse. I am also going to a new endocrinologist and will ask her to do a full thyroid panel on me (not just TSH) so I can feel more confident about that before I do anymore procedures. Then I am thinking of pursuing mini IVF around July or August. I have two refills of clomid left (ten 50mg pills each) so I am thinking of maybe doing 150mg of clomid for 5 days for the timed intercourse cycle in June. Maybe that is too much for someone who ovulates on her own but obviously the lower dose hasn't created a baby so I am tempted to increase it. I have done two clomid cycles so far. Both were 100mg days 3 to 7. The first time I only had one mature follicle and the second time I had 3 mature follicles... so it is hard to know what I'll get. Maybe I should just stick to 100mg for 5 days so I don't risk thinning out my lining too much and then I'll have enough left over to do the same thing again in July in case I am not ready for IVF yet.


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## BelleNuit

ooooh, I just logged in and they updated my lab results on the patient website. I have 2 follicles on the right that are 14mm and 1 on the left that is 13mm, so I very likely will O all 3! I'm very pleased with this response as I'm on the lowest dose of femara! Just have to get my lining to thicken up a bit more. Its 5.43mm. I'm hoping it doesn't just decide its happy at that thickness. Last time I had it checked it was 5.5mm on CD 15. I'm hoping it will get to at least 7! 

Now I'm actually excited to be having an IUI. Maybe we have a real shot at this!

Lar I think your plan is brilliant!! I love that you're going to advocate for a full thyroid panel! And doing the mini IVF will be such a great option for you! Of course you're unexplained so you might get lucky before you get to the point of IVF!


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## BelleNuit

Oh also Lar I would be more inclined to do 100mg clomid for a cycle and then 50 the next cycle if you wanted. I think the risks of thining the lining aren't worth it! I'm still rooting for you that you'll get your bfp this cycle though!


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## LAR83

Thanks Belle. I have enough that I can do 100mg in June and 100mg in July. I agree it is probably not worth it to go higher. Hopefully I am pregnant this cycle... but you know... that is hard to believe. That is exciting that you might have a shot at more than one follicle and that your lining is thicker than it used to be at this time! Good luck!


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## BelleNuit

I know Lar, it gets hard to keep on hoping after awhile. If you have enough for 100 each month then I would go that route! 

I was feeling okay about my lining, but then I looked more fully into my lab notes and realize that it's exactly the same thickness it was at my CD 3 ultrasound. But I'm guessing/hoping that maybe the lining doesn't actually grow while on the femara pills (because it lowers estrogen) and that because I have 3 follies that my lining will catch up faster because of the extra hormones. Now I just have to make it to Friday (which is my birthday! I hope I'll get some good news!).


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## steph1607

Belle 3 lovely follies is so exciting! 

Still nothing to report from this end!


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## Ask4joy

Belle - 3 sounds great! Hoping femera + IUI does the trick for you!!$ 

Saw my OB on Tuesday - no UTI or infection of any kind. She said it could be hormones or something I ate. She said some people are more prone to experiencing that. I know if I'm dehydrated it can happen.

Think I'm 9dpo today. Usual 2ww symptoms. Only have digitals so I'm not tempted to test early. 

LAR - do you know anything about the success rates of mini IVF?


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## LAR83

Hey ask, glad you don't have an infection! How is everything else going?

This is the place where I am thinking of doing mini IVF: https://www.newhopefertility.com/ivf/mini-ivf/ According to them, it has a really high success rate but somehow I find that hard to believe. I have seen lower numbers other places so I am not really sure. I made an intake there for June 4th to get a consultation and see if it really is a good fit for me. I am hoping my insurance covers mini IVF because otherwise I am not doing it. I need to call them before my appointment.


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## Norelisa

Happy birthday Belle :))
 



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## LAR83

Yes Happy Birthday!!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Nore (cute pics!) and Lar! I'm feeling the love today :)


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## steph1607

Happy Birthday Belle! And have a lovely weekend everyone!


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## Ask4joy

Happy birthday Belle! Hope you are having an awesome day! 

LAR - if your insurance covers mini IVF it sounds like that might be a good option before doing a full blown IVF cycle. Unfortunately mine does not cover anything so it makes more sense for me to do a regular IVF if we get to that point at the end of the summer.


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## LC89

:flower::happydance:Happy Birthday Belle


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## LAR83

Ask, my insurance gives me 10,000 dollars for ivf coverage if I get it pre-approved, so my guess is that they will pay for mini ivf but insurance companies can be particular sometimes so I need to make sure. My RE recommended that I do regular IVF but I am not going that route bc I am not ok with having any extra embryos that potentially won't be used. So hopefully mini IVF works or after that we are more or less going to be on our own. Or it'd be even better if I am pregnant now. I guess we will see next week. I am expecting AF, but obviously hoping it doesn't come.


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## OnErth&InHvn

OPK is BFN today, which is expected as its only CD10. :haha:

Tomorrow we are celebrating DH and DD1's birthdays + MIL is in town... :help:


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## BelleNuit

Thoughts on OPK? Control line is to the right.
 



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## LAR83

looks positive to me Belle.


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## OnErth&InHvn

I say just a smidge under but it could just be the pic. 

----------
MIL is in town this weekend so we are doing an overhaul cleaning. O.M.G.....:blush::dohh::help:


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Earth :) I'm thinking either way it will definitely be positive by tomorrow. I took a digital tonight and it was positive. So I think we're good to go for IUI for tomorrow!


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## Norelisa

Good luck with the iui Belle :)

We have been on a day trip to kho phi phi today, it was funny to go back after 8 years! :)

Currently on cd10 and my temps are surprisingly good compared to previous months. I take that as a good sign that my hormones are under control, haha :)

Otherwise nothing special here, although both hubby and I am sad planning our move back. Next Friday all our stuff will be shipped to France, and from end of may we move out. Depending on visa situation we might go for a few days to Laos, some days at a beach (again) and a few days in Bangkok to say goodbye to everyone before moving back to France..


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Lar & Nore :). It was very obviously positive today so IUI will definitely be happening.... In 3 hours :O lol

And thanks everyone for the great bday wishes yesterday... What a crazy day it was lol.

Oh goodness Nore that move sure came up fast!! I love Thailand too, there is nowhere else quite like it! I hope your move goes well and that you are able to make the most of your time left!


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## Ask4joy

LAR - sounds like you have a good plan that you are comfortable with. Frozen embryos can be used in subsequent FET cycles but it's true you could end up with a bunch. 

Belle - my positives are always darker than the control line. The test line looks a tad lighter to me. When do you go in again?

11dpo (I think) for me and bfn on a Dollar Tree cheapie. It's ok. I'll test again at 14dpo and will stop progesterone if BFN. No spotting again with the progesterone which is great.


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## BelleNuit

This was this mornings OPK. Definitely positive. I go in at noon, so 3 hours

Control line is to the right.
 



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## Ask4joy

Definitely positive! Yay! Are you going in for the trigger or IUI?


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## BelleNuit

They said I don't need the trigger because I surged. They are doing the IUI. 

Honestly I'm worried today is too early but then I worry that tomorrow would be too late lol. I had a bit of spotting this AM so I think that means O is coming soon! Because I have 3 eggs it is likely that they will O at slightly different times over the next 24 hours. Hopefully one of them will match up with the timing of our IUI!


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## Ask4joy

FX for you! My clinic does the IUI the day after the surge but it's better to be a little early than late! And with 3 eggs it totally increases your chances! The whole timing thing stresses me out!


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## BelleNuit

Man the timing is SO stressful! I think my surge started yesterday and reached it's peak sometime this morning/over night. So hopefully the timing won't be too far off! I know best case scenario (like very best case scenario) the chances are a bit less than 20% with 3 eggs. So even if everything was perfectly timed (and the lining was perfectly thick... which it's not) it is still more likely not to be successful. Surprisingly this makes me feel better lol. I honestly can't wait till the TWW when I can just chill and forget about it all again


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## steph1607

Sending lots of positivity your way Belle. A girl on another thread I'm own got a BFP yesterday after more than 18 months so that's given me some renewed hope!

I'm on CD14 today, and I have had no EWCM, but I have been having some twinges in the lower left hand side of my abdomen. This could obviously be all manner of things, and I'm possibly getting too hopeful because I know it's CD14, but when those of you who have them have had ovary twinges, have you found it means you're Oing now, or O is imminent or what?


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## BelleNuit

Damn that IUI hurt. I was not expecting that! It was a million times worse than the HSG. I wish I had taken Tylenol beforehand. 

We had 24 million count post wash.


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## LAR83

oh no! I wonder why it was so painful... did it cause you cramping? My HSG was a million times more painful than my IUIs. I did cramp slightly with some of my IUIs but it was just a little uncomfortable and not at all painful. sorry it caused you so much pain! I hope it's worth it in the end and you get your BFP!


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## BelleNuit

The speculum freaking hurt. I think it pinched me somehow. The catheter hurt going through my cervix and then I got really achy cramps. I barely felt my HSG. This was awful.


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## Ask4joy

I'm so sorry it was painful, Belle. The catheter hurt really bad for me too (wayyy worse than with the catheter for the HSG but the cramping I got during the HSG was bad). Felt like she punched a hole through it. And I had bad ovulation like cramping afterwards too. At least now it's over! I think I did take Tylenol before and it didn't help. 24 million is great!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Ask I was thinking I was dumb for NOT taking Tylenol beforehand, but honestly I don't know if it would have helped. I had pretty bad cramping on and off all afternoon. It was a nurse who did the IUI and I think she just rushed the process.

I'm glad that's done. I wouldn't want to rush into doing another so hopefully this works.


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## Ask4joy

A nurse practitioner did mine too. She had to change catheters because she couldn't get the first one in. I really don't want to do it again but it looks like I will be next month. 

I'm having a rough day...actually it feels more like a rough year. I look in the mirror and think, jeez I've aged 10 years in the last year! Even my doctor told me I looked tired when I went in last week to see if I had a UTI. I am so tired. And stressed. And depressed. Infertility has sucked the life out of me, on top of knowing my 35 year old sister in law is dying. I went to my 6 year old niece's soccer game today...my brother and sister in law are in Bora Bora for a week...because that's what you do when you know your time is short. I kept looking at my sweet niece and feeling heart broken. I came home and cried and cried...about everything. DH gets so angry and irritated with me. Things have really not been good between us, especially since he lost his job. I feel like we hate each other half the time. Maybe we should go to counseling. I feel so broken down. Sorry to dump all of this here...I just needed to get it out.


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## LAR83

so sorry, ask :( no need to apologize. you are going through a lot right now and we all need to do some dumping now and then. I'm glad your brother and sister-in-law got to go away, but obviously the circumstances are horrible. I can't imagine what they are going through right now. 35 is terribly young. do the kids understand what's happening? 

how come you think you'll have to do IUI again next month? are you getting AF symptoms? 

counseling could be a really good idea if you and DH can afford it right now. DH and I have considered that, but have never pursued it. we've hit some really low points at different points in our relationship and broke up a few times too (before marriage), but at the moment we're in a pretty good place. we've been together since 2005, so about 12 years now. I say that to say that I know from experience there can be a lot of ebbs and flows in a relationship, and just because things are really bad at times doesn't mean they have to stay bad, even when it's hard to imagine things changing at the time. 

i am hoping things start looking up for you very soon!!


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## Ask4joy

Thank you, LAR. I think my insurance would cover counseling (it's covered it for me in the past but I'm not sure about marriage counseling). 

My breasts are super sore and I'm very emotional today. 11dpo but last month AF didn't show until 3 days after stopping the progesterone suppositories. 

My 6 year old niece knows her mom is sick and is getting special treatment but I think that's the extent of it. Obviously the 1.5 year old doesn't understand. I'm still hoping that this new gene targeted therapy will give her more time. We will know more in a couple of weeks at her next scan.


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## OnErth&InHvn

I lived through MIL but it was a hectic day. Dh and I went to a sushi making class. i dont like sushi so that was interesting. :haha:

OPKs have been BFN. CD12, so still early. :thumbup:


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## BelleNuit

Ask I don't think there is a better place to dump it all out. You are going through an awful lot right now. you're in this suspended, disenfranchised grief state, which isn't well recognized by society or very likely by many people in your life. Counselling is such a great idea.

Also husband's get moody/irritable in between jobs. I honestly can't stand mine when he's unemployed. Lar has it right that long term relationships ebb and flow. I know you will both make it through!

Otherwise for me I got my temp rise so I think the IUI was fairly well timed. I think doing it today would have been a bit late. My preference would have been to do the IUI yesterday evening, but that wasn't possible lol.


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## Ask4joy

Thank you, Belle. I really does help having you ladies to vent to! And you are so right about the suspended grief state. It can be really exhausting. The best thing I can do is to try and stay present. Today was better...DH and I went out for breakfast then went to Home Depot and a cute antique store then spent several hours gardening together. It was nice to do some things together and not focus on everything that has us stressed out.

It sounds like your timing was great! Now the wait begins! 

I'll test again Tuesday morning and if BFN I'll stop progesterone and then start 100mg clomid on cd3.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Tonight I bought frer digi opk. They are new apparently. 20 sticks with a holder. Sounds like the rest of the digi opk....nope.

With these, when you get :bfp: the holder turns off permentally. 

The others, clear blue and target, you can reuse the holder. 

Just a FYI. The frer is expensive too. $40+ :sad:


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## Ask4joy

Earth - let us know how the new FRER opks are! The digis don't work well for me when I'm on clomid...the clearblue advanced measure estrogen and LH and estrogen can be out of whack on clomid. 

So I'm not sure what to think of my temps and O date....advanced setting on FF says I O'd on cd 15, research says cd 16 and FAM says cd 22 (AFTER I was on progesterone for several days.) I'm thinking the progesterone supps last cycle made my pre-o temps higher than normal hence the ambiguous O date. Thoughts?


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## OnErth&InHvn

I threw away the FRER OPK!!! After 2 days of attempting to use them, they kept giving errors. Reviews say they stink! 

Back to Clearblue Pink and Target! :thumbup:

Id have to look at your chart but i think either way you are good! My chart is crazy so far this cycle too. I have been doing it on paper. Ill snap a pic tomorrow.


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## BelleNuit

Ask I think CD 16 looks right for O date! I think you are covered either way though :)


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## Ask4joy

Thanks - just wondering when I should stop the progesterone...if I O'd on cd15 then I'm 14dpo today and BFN on a FRER.


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## BelleNuit

I'd wait one more day just to make sure, but if you wanted to stop taking them today it would probably be fine. Sorry about yet another bfn


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## LC89

I'm on cd 15 today. Cd 14 I had ALOT of EwCm and lower back pains and today I'm still having the lower back pains and EwCm. I have never felt the lower back pains around O time. 

Could this be O or something else? Has anyone else had lower back pains around O time? :shrug:


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## Ask4joy

That's what I'm thinking too, Belle.

LC - yes I get back pain on O day. Especially on clomid. Usually only on one side.


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## LC89

Thanks for replying Ask, Its pretty bad and its more to my right side, I was getting really scared because I didn't know what was going on. How long did your pain last in your back?


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## OnErth&InHvn

I dont get lower back pain near O, just Ovary pains. 

Speaking of which, darn it if im not going to O on my bum right side. Well, i think based off the O pains i had last night. ( i have them about 2 days before O). 

I also decided on a whim to add my trigger shot when i get + on OPK. 

So I should/could/hope to get + Thursday-ish, Trigger and O Saturday-ish. Testing June 6th. <3


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## Ask4joy

LC - it's usually strongest on O day but can start the day before and linger the day after...it feels more like a sharp radiating pinching feeling in my back. Different from the lower back pain I get the first 2 days of AF. It was super intense last month on the day I had my IUI. Part of me worries it could be endo pain? But my RE doesn't seem concerned that I could have endo.


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## LC89

That's how mine has been for the past two days, yesterday hurt more then today. I know what you mean by sharp radiating pinching , this stuff hurts! I was also worried about endo but my doctor has not said anything about endo. I'm feel alot better now knowing it does happen to someone else around O also. I was excited yesterday when the pain started ( I know that sounds crazy but it gave me hope for this cycle) and then the longer it lasted the more I got worried.


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## LAR83

Sorry for the bfn, Ask... same here. I am about 15dpo and got a bfn plus I am starting to see the beginning of AF. Ughh. This sucks. Oh well. On to next cycle I guess.


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## BelleNuit

Sorry ladies for all the bfns recently. Sometimes I wonder if docs are any good at identifying endo. It worries me that it can be symptom free. Sometimes I debate whether or not I should just get a lap to reassure myself lol. I'm so tired of being unexplained. Even my lining theory didn't pan out. It was likely above 7mm on O day which is considered normal. It's not fabulous, but it's not too thin either. 

I'm kind of wondering if we fixed our problem and just haven't hit our lucky month yet. I'm trying to keep my expectations within reason. It's easy to let your mind run wild after an IUI


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## Ask4joy

LAR - so sorry about the bfn. I'm so tired of it. I keep seeing pregnant women everywhere which just makes it worse.

Belle / LC - my RE specializes in endometriosis and has published a lot of research in that domain. I told him my symptoms and he said "that's not a good case for endo" and "even if you do have endo, given your age it would be in the early stages still and research doesn't support the notion that laparoscopy increases fertility in mild to moderate cases".


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## BelleNuit

Ask I've been thinking that same thing, pregnant ladies are popping up everywhere. Driving me nuts! Someday I would like to be able to walk past a pregnant woman and not immediately think "I hate you" lol or "why you and not me"

That's good to know Ask about what your doc says. I think the link between why endo is related to infertility hasn't been fully established. It's definitely a weird disease!


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## Ask4joy

Omg Belle those are my exact thoughts! And, "you probably weren't even trying!" or "I hope you had to try a long time because that's the only way I could be happy for you". Sounds so horrible but hey, there's no such thing as thought police! 

My (ex) step mother saw the same RE as me 14 years ago before getting pregnant with my little sister. My dad said she got pregnant the month after her laparoscopy.. I don't really know more details than that. I know they often do laparoscopy and the HSG at the same time so if she had some sort of blockage it could have been cleared. They did find very mild endo and removed it. But apparently that's not standard procedure anymore. 

Here's my running list of possible reasons I'm not pregnant:

- endometriosis / fibroids / polyps
- chromosomal issues with eggs and/or sperm
- implantation issues
- immunological reasons 

Am I missing anything? I just want to know WHY! As I've said, one of my best friends got pregnant with her first IVF after 5 years (it took her a year and a half and 3 rounds of clomid with her first at the age 26) and even after IVF doctors couldn't determine her cause of infertility. They harvested close to 20 eggs and I believe she has 10 frozen embryos! She is 34. She gave birth to her second baby girl last night!


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## BelleNuit

Ask my list of reasons "why" looks pretty similar! I have "tube can't pick up/transport egg properly" on there as well. Although if I'm honest with myself I think they could do as many tests as they wanted and still not find anything. I think DH and I may have a few subtle sub-fertile factors between the two of us. Things that on their own wouldn't cause any trouble, but when combined result in infertility. That's my current theory at least. 

It's good to know I'm not the only one with those kinds of thoughts towards pregnant ladies. I find them embarrassing and wouldn't admit them to anyone I know!


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## LAR83

I was just thinking that today.. about seeing all these pregnant women. Since I live in NYC I see so many people here period, and then take into consideration that I commute 3 hours a day Mon-Fri, and see people come on and off the train that whole time...and now that it's warmer and people aren't wearing big coats anymore, it seems like I see at least one pregnant person every day. I don't usually have a major reaction to it... but I guess as I am going longer without getting pregnant, it's getting to me more. When I saw a pregnant woman on the train today (the second one today) after getting my BFN, I literally started tearing up. I thought one of the IUIs would work, so I am feeling pretty deflated. 

I think I am going to take the next three months to focus on my health and taking supplements, and then do the mini IVF in September to try giving us a better chance for success. For those who take coq10, what dosage do you take? and if dh takes it too, what dosage does he take? I've been putting it off, but we are going to start taking that now. I am also looking into Ovaboost, which Belle recommended, but I am not sure yet. Reviews seem to be very mixed. A lot of people give it very positive reviews but it gets a lot of negative reviews too. Some people said it messed up their cycle, so I am a little nervous to take it.


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## OnErth&InHvn

My why is:

Irregular cycles
Ovarian cyst/cancer
An-ovulation

Thats just TTC, not even WHEN im pregnant! Then its:

Placenta Problems big and small

#StupidBrokenUterusAndOvaries


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## BelleNuit

Lar DH takes 400 mg coq10 and I take 600. Ya the reviews on ovaboost are mixed. I have been taking it since January/February and haven't had problems on it. I think myo-inositol has largely been researched with pcos population. From what I understand of it, women who take it generally need lower amounts of stims because the inositol helps with early follicle recruitment. I don't think its a miracle worker, but I think it might be part of why I got 3 follicles on the lowest dose of femara. It hasn't messed up my cycle at all, but thats not to say that someone else won't have an adverse reaction on it. 

I'm sorry you're feeling so deflated these days. I would be feeling the same if it were me. I guess in a couple more months I'll know either way if IUI will work for me or not. Either way its still not the end of the road for you! you still have options!


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## LAR83

thanks belle. It'd be great if I could just get pregnant doing timed intercourse within the next 3 months, so I won't even have to go through with IVF. The main thing on my list of why I might not be getting pregnant is that I might still have thyroid problems undetected by just testing TSH. I am thinking maybe once I get my full thyroid panel tested maybe another abnormality in my levels will be revealed, and maybe if I get that fixed I will be able to conceive quicker. Who knows... but I am holding out hope that something will work. 

It makes sense that you take 600mg of coq10 because I read somewhere that a lot of women take lower doses, but that taking less than 600mg hasn't been proven effective. I wasn't sure if it would be the same for dh or not, but I was wondering if I could have him take less because taking 600mg can be kind of expensive.


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## BelleNuit

I think it makes so much sense to get the full thyroid panel completed. If it's all okay at least that's one thing your can cross off your list of "maybe why's"

If it helps I only take the coq10 in the FP. I went with 400 for DH as that was what my acupuncturist suggested. The supplements really are costly after awhile


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## OnErth&InHvn

Im having a heck of a time with these OPK this month!

Yesterday i did pink CB and it gave me an error so i dipped an advanced CB and it gave me low. 

Oy. 

---------
Id get a full re check up on bloodwork, things can change from time to time.


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## BelleNuit

Earth I seriously hate OPKs, they cause me so much stress! 

4 dpo today, nothing exciting to report lol


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## steph1607

I just did an OPK at work. I don't know why, I'm just stupid. They're not even reliable for women with PCOS, what is wrong with me?!


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## BelleNuit

Lol I've done OPKs at work before too Steph!


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## steph1607

People are probably wondering why I was in the loo for so long! Don't know why I feel the need to torture myself!


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## Norelisa

Af. Again. What a surprise.. But at least I'm happy with my post o temps last cycle. I took vitex and will continue this cycle too. We are packing last stuff tomorrow and moving people coming on Friday, what a time to be alive... Sigh. 

No more morning smoothies until the ship arrives and deliver our stuff in France.. Sigh..


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## steph1607

Sorry to hear AF got you Nor. Best of luck with the move!


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## BelleNuit

Sorry about AF Nore. It's also crazy how quickly your move came up!!


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## Rawan

Belle-I remember you were taking myoinositol, have you noticed any difference after taking it? Improvement? What dosage are you taking? I am taking myoinositol 2000mg per day, and I removed L'arginine from my supplement. I've been taking myoinositol for awhile, but I haven't noticed any difference. Thank you!


----------



## BelleNuit

Rawan I can't say I have noticed differences but I can say that I got 3 follicles on the lowest dose of femara. I don't know if that's due to the inositol or if I just respond easily. I take th same dose as you are!


----------



## Rawan

Thank you Belle! I respond very well to femara when I first tried it, I got 2 mature follicles...but lately I've been getting only 1 leading follicle with Femara. That's really good you got 3 follicles! Were they all mature ones?


BelleNuit said:


> Rawan I can't say I have noticed differences but I can say that I got 3 follicles on the lowest dose of femara. I don't know if that's due to the inositol or if I just respond easily. I take th same dose as you are!


----------



## BelleNuit

Ya they were all mature. I'm not too sure how I ended up with 3 mature follicles lol. But I guess all the ovulation cramping I've been having makes sense now


----------



## Rawan

Good luck with this cycle! I think you have good chance with 3 follicles! :)


BelleNuit said:


> Ya they were all mature. I'm not too sure how I ended up with 3 mature follicles lol. But I guess all the ovulation cramping I've been having makes sense now


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

I hope i O soon! Geez, i feel like im already out!


----------



## Ask4joy

Started lightly spotting today - AF should show tomorrow (3 days after last progesterone supp). 

Earth - twice on 50mg clomid I didn't O until cd 19-20 which is late for me.

Belle - how are you feeling? Still early I know...

Nore - sorry about AF :( Onward and upward!

I'm thinking about going to another fertility clinic that only does fertility treatment and getting a 2nd opinion. I just have this feeling that IUI isn't our solution and want to move on. Willing to do one more but not sure if I should just move on to IVF after that...I'll be 35 in October and I want more than one!


----------



## BelleNuit

Ask I can understand the way you feel. It is easy to get discouraged with IUIs. 

I'm only 5 dpo today, so anything I'm feeling is just progesterone related. That said I'm definitely irritable and emotional today. I had a good cry before it was even 8AM. I think its maybe just extra progesterone, but I guess I'll find out on Saturday if thats the case or not.


----------



## LAR83

Ask, do you think your current doctor would let you do IVF after two IUIs, or they really want you to do three IUIs first? IVF could definitely help speed things up for you, and I totally get that. I'll be 34 in July, so I am year behind you, and I want more than one too. I am feeling the pressure as well, but I'm sure I'd be feeling even more pressure a year from now. If it's hard to have a child now, I worry that it's going to be harder to have a second in a few years (let alone if you want more than 2), but if you have embryos ready to go, that would be very helpful.

I got blood work done today (cd3) and all looked good, so I got the go-ahead to start femara tonight. I am only prescribed femara for this cycle, but I had refills left from my clomid, so I decided that I am going to take clomid as well without telling my doctor. Part of me feels really uneasy doing that... I felt rebellious last cycle just taking the femara a few extra days, so I really feel rebellious this cycle. but I just finished with 4 failed IUIs and I am only doing timed intercourse this cycle, so I feel like I need to do something extra. my RE said she'd prescribe me injectables, but my insurance won't cover them and they are too expensive for me, so this is what I can afford right now. In one study I was reading the women took clomid in the afternoon and femara in the evening, and had pretty good results, so I am going to give it a shot and see what happens.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Im cd17 today and have Od cd19 and 21 but i just have a feeling....

I have heard of Soy and Clomid and double doses of Clomid but never FE and Clomid!


----------



## steph1607

OnErth&InHvn said:


> Im cd17 today and have Od cd19 and 21 but i just have a feeling....
> 
> I have heard of Soy and Clomid and double doses of Clomid but never FE and Clomid!

Yeah I'm CD20 today and have my blood tests this afternoon, but I'm convinced it hasn't happened again for me this time. We go on holiday next Wednesday so I'm hoping to get the results before then.


----------



## BelleNuit

You're such a rebel LAR, clomid and femara at the same time! Oh my!!

Ya, the nice thing about IVF is that if it is successful your fertility is preserved in a sense (as long as you have some frosties). 

I think we're going to aim to do IVF in November or January if IUI doesn't work out for us. The dumb thing about being unexplained is that spontaneous pregnancies do happen. Just at a lesser rate. It does blow my mind that in another 6 months we will be at the 2 year mark. It already feels incredible that we've been trying for as long as we have. I think at some point in the next year to 18 months we should have resolution. Every day we are getting one step closer to either having our baby or living child free. The fact that this too will pass gives me a lot of peace.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

OPK are getting lighter... I either didnt O or we completely missed it. :dohh:


----------



## Ask4joy

Earth - my opks get lighter right before they get darker again and then positive so maybe you are still going to O!

I DO like the idea of doing IVF now and have frozen embryos I could use even into my early 40s if I wanted!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

pity party post for a sec.....:cry:

I just want to do something. Run? Hide? Give up? I know thats silly but i feel like i bought the Clomid so i have to use it butif its not working, thats a waste of money. When do you give up? When do you say enough is enough? Dh isnt swinging one way or another about it. 

Gosh darn it body, JUST O!


----------



## Ask4joy

I'm sorry, Earth. It sounds like many women with PCOS don't O on 50mg but do on 100 or 150mg. When did you take your last dose? 50mg made me O later than ever, twice.

CD 3 and just took my first dose of 100mg clomid. Kinda scared about the side effects! Also excited that it may give me more mature follies!


----------



## steph1607

Good luck with the 100mg, Ask. I took that this cycle and did have stronger side effects than the 50mg, but everyone reacts so differently anyway. Fingers crossed for lots of mature follies &#128522;


----------



## BelleNuit

Good luck Ask! Hoping for tons of follicles for you!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> I'm sorry, Earth. It sounds like many women with PCOS don't O on 50mg but do on 100 or 150mg. When did you take your last dose? 50mg made me O later than ever, twice.
> 
> CD 3 and just took my first dose of 100mg clomid. Kinda scared about the side effects! Also excited that it may give me more mature follies!

CD7 was mt last dose. Its CD19. I will go to 75mg next, then 100mg.


----------



## steph1607

OnErth&InHvn said:


> CD7 was mt last dose. Its CD19. I will go to 75mg next, then 100mg.

I'm on CD22 now, CD6 being my fifth 100mg Clomid tablet. So frustrating. If my body can't bloody ovulate I have no chance!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> OnErth&InHvn said:
> 
> 
> CD7 was mt last dose. Its CD19. I will go to 75mg next, then 100mg.
> 
> I'm on CD22 now, CD6 being my fifth 100mg Clomid tablet. So frustrating. If my body can't bloody ovulate I have no chance!Click to expand...

I know! Its frustrating!! If no O, then AF gets all messed up and on and on. :dohh:


----------



## Ask4joy

Steph - are you going to try 150 if you don't O this cycle? Femera and injectables are options too! Most likely once you start ovulating you'll be pregnant in a few months! FX it happens soon!


----------



## BelleNuit

Progesterone was 114.5 nmol/L or 36 ng/ml which definitely means ovulation. The higher values probably just indicate that it was a multiple ovulation. Good to know that I don't need progesterone supplements


----------



## steph1607

Ask4joy said:


> Steph - are you going to try 150 if you don't O this cycle? Femera and injectables are options too! Most likely once you start ovulating you'll be pregnant in a few months! FX it happens soon!

Not sure yet Ask, I think it's likely. I don't think I'll get hold of the consultant until after we get back from holiday so will be a couple of weeks until we find out. I did buy a BBT the other day though so fit next time I can actually try and monitor things myself, without just relying on the CD21 blood test!


----------



## Ask4joy

Wow Belle, that's a great number! MAYBE it means there's a little embie implanting! And that's very good you don't need progesterone...it really isn't fun. 

Steph - enjoy your trip! Charting can add that reassurance for sure and can tell you a lot about your cycle...but can also be maddening at times! I can't believe I've been doing it for a year! Oy!


----------



## BelleNuit

Thanks Ask, I hope you're right! I'm just going to take it to mean that I did ovulate those 3 eggs, which is good to know it can happen in a natural LH surge. If pregnancy were to happen the higher number means it would be more likely to stick if I did get a bfp, assuming everything else was good. 

I still don't feel like testing early. I always spot by 12 dpo which is Thursday. AF is due Saturday.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

I gave up the rest of this cycle. My gut says I didnt O so im not going to waste the time on the P4 test. On to 75mg when AF shows!


----------



## BelleNuit

Sorry Earth! How frustrating!


----------



## steph1607

CD21 blood test results back. Sod all good news again. Someone's going to try and get hold of the fertility consultant this afternoon and phone back with next steps. Very disheartening yet again.


----------



## BelleNuit

I'm sorry Steph. There are so many options to get someone to O, I know they'll get you there eventually and then you'll likely get pregnant quickly 

BFN at 10 dpo today. I'll test again at 12 dpo if there is no spotting. I don't have much hope though. I don't think IUI is fixing our problem, whatever that problem is!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> CD21 blood test results back. Sod all good news again. Someone's going to try and get hold of the fertility consultant this afternoon and phone back with next steps. Very disheartening yet again.

I wonder why Clomid isnt working for us? :hugs:


----------



## steph1607

Thanks Belle.

I know Earth, I had such high hopes for it. The consultant has said he doesn't want me to do another cycle. I think my blood tests showed that my body not respond one little bit. So now to wait until 3rd July to see him and go from there.


----------



## Ask4joy

Very sorry Earth & Steph. I hope you find something that works soon! 

Belle - sorry about the bfn but yes still early. I called another fertility clinic today for a 2nd opinion. Plus it's a little closer to home. Day 3 of 100mg clomid and no side effects so far aside from being kinda hot at night.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Thanks Belle.
> 
> I know Earth, I had such high hopes for it. The consultant has said he doesn't want me to do another cycle. I think my blood tests showed that my body not respond one little bit. So now to wait until 3rd July to see him and go from there.

thats where i am.... keep going? not? I dont have IUI/IVF as options. Clomid is it. :shrug:


----------



## BelleNuit

Earth I think we all reach that point sooner or later where we question whether or not we should keep trying (assuming we don't get lucky). I hope you'll find peace in whatever you decide to do


----------



## BelleNuit

Well BFN today at 12 dpo. I'm sure I'll start spotting at some point today too. Needless to say I'm feeling pretty frustrated and disheartened by this whole process.


----------



## Ask4joy

I'm sorry Belle. Still hoping you don't start spotting! 

I booked an appointment with another clinic. It's going to cost around $300 for the consultation and initial exam but I feel better with having a second opinion before moving on to IVF in a few months.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

My ovaries are going crazy today-- it almost feels like popcorn???


----------



## LAR83

OnErth&InHvn said:


> My ovaries are going crazy today-- it almost feels like popcorn???

That's..... interesting...


----------



## BelleNuit

Like you feel popping in your ovaries?? 

Ask I hope the consultation at the very least gives you some peace of mind!

No spotting today, but I'll check again before bed. So thats a good sign at least. But of course my brain is thinking its probably just because of the higher amount of progesterone this cycle. My bbs are getting achy today, I'm having breakouts and I'm exhausted. I even started crying hysterically for no reason while driving this afternoon. So PMS is in full swing.


----------



## steph1607

OnErth&InHvn said:


> My ovaries are going crazy today-- it almost feels like popcorn???

Don't some people actually feel a pop in their ovaries when they O? I think that's just one pop though, not multiple like popcorn! Maybe you should get that checked out??


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Its just what it felt like.. It wasnt painful or anything. 

Ill get CH tomorrow but i dont think its the correct O day.


----------



## Ask4joy

I'm only on cd9 but my opk looks positive this morning...what do you think? Am I not supposed to test until 3 days after finishing clomid? It's been 2 days.
 



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## BelleNuit

The line to the left looks slightly darker. Is that the test line?

BFN again today and a bit of tan cm. I think the higher progesterone is just holding my lining together better. Still have to go for my blood test this morning. But I'm counting myself out, just waiting for AF at this point.


----------



## Ask4joy

The line of the left is the control line. My test line usually gets darker than the control when it's positive so I'm going to count it as negative...plus I just read that clomid can give a false positive if you test too soon after finishing it. 

Very sorry about the BFN and spotting Belle. There's still hope until AF shows!


----------



## BelleNuit

Well it looks like it's on its way to positive. I've gotten POS OPKs on CD 10 before.

Thanks Ask. I'm not feeling too hopeful anymore. We decided we'll do the 3 IUIs and then hopefully start IVF in December. We'll&#8203; just NTNP for the cycles between IUI and IVF. I just can't take this anymore. I want to get the IUIs over with so I know what's coming.


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## Ask4joy

I know what you mean, Belle. I should have more hope but the IUI success rate really isn't that high...but high enough that it's worth a shot, or 3.


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## BelleNuit

Thats what I think Ask. Also I am still young, so I think I should give my body time, as frustrating as that is.


----------



## LAR83

Got an ultrasound and an ovidrel shot this morning. I have two mature follicles and a bunch of small to medium size follicles that aren't likely to be of any use. DH and I have been "prescribed" 3 days of sex: today, tomorrow, and the next day. 

Ask, it looks like you and I are around the same spot in our cycle again this month. 

Belle, still hoping that AF will stay away and this cycle will be it for you! If not.... well, at least we're hopefully all getting closer to our BFPs!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Ugh, i hate that i missed those 2 temps.... FF cant decide when i may have Od. CD18, 22 or 24. I think i have no idea. :wacko:


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## BelleNuit

So frustrating Earth! I have no idea!

Beta was negative. AF still hasn't arrived, but cramps are starting so probably just a couple more hours. IF AF shows before 4PM today is CD 1, after that tomorrow is. I've been given the go ahead to do another IUI cycle. We'll be following the same protocol. But I'll add in acupuncture this time.

The nurse on the phone was so overly apologetic and sorry sounding. It grated on my nerves more than anything. I just wanted to say "I don't need your sympathy. Just get to the point and tell me the facts and I'll deal with the rest of it."

I've been digging dandelions out of my lawn. Its strangely therapeutic lol


----------



## rickyandlucy

Hi all. I am back. Any new BFP's while I was gone? How's everybody doing?

So we went on our vacation. It was fantastic. So relaxing.

But today sadly I had to go back to work. I also had my annual lady doctor visit. I stopped temping awhile back; when we got the specialist referral. I am still wearing my Ava bracelet though. This month marks one year since we really started TTC. Next month marks 2 years off birth control. Today my Ava says I should be ovulating. But I don't know, I just don't feel very optimistic at all. Still haven't called the specialist. Waiting for this cycle to end before I throw in the towel. :cry:


----------



## Norelisa

So, I've been slacking a bit this cycle. Took me a few days to get more Vit E, haven't had my Brazil nuts for the past week after moving out. Kinda had a bit of temp rise this morning. Normally when I'm not on clomid I ovulate later, like cd17-18-19. This morning (when I woke up at 9 am my temp was 36.82 which was a lot higher than then 36.68 I had first time I woke up and plotted into my ff. And just after getting up I did a clearblue ovulation test. Peak directly. Could I have just ovulated though? Would it still peak if I had ovulated? Ahg, I should have started testing a bit earlier..


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

I think you are oing!!


BFN on hpt..not sure why I tested


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## BelleNuit

Welcome back Lucy, sounds like you had a lovely trip!

Nore its been awhile, did your move all go to plan?


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## OnErth&InHvn

temp tanked today... AF is on her way or im just now Oing? We will BD just in case but BFN on HPT anyway.


----------



## BelleNuit

It's hard to say Earth! I'm thinking you're about to O though!

Baseline ultrasound tomorrow morning. Hoping my AFC is in a good range again.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> It's hard to say Earth! I'm thinking you're about to O though!
> 
> Baseline ultrasound tomorrow morning. Hoping my AFC is in a good range again.

Ill take an OPK and see


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Opk was bfn/low. Cm is sticky/tacky.


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## OnErth&InHvn

110% didn't O. 

I'm jumping to 100mg, screw 75 and waiting. Now to hope AF will show up on time.......


----------



## steph1607

Do you think AF is likely to show if you didn't O Earth?


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

steph1607 said:


> Do you think AF is likely to show if you didn't O Earth?

Probably not, which means Provera. This time though if AF isnt here by CD32, then ill start it, putting me at CD50+ when she shows. ( if its like last time, CD32-42 Provera, then CD54 AF will be here....)


----------



## BelleNuit

I think jumping to 100mg makes a lot of sense Earth.

Baseline ultrasound today, AFC was 21. I'll go back next week to see how many are left after femara.


----------



## clapper

Hi ladies, I am about to start clomid again once AF comes. Hubby and I having been trying for over a year again (I have PCOS) and have had no luck. Looks like I am 6dpo maybe? so I will be starting next week. Anyone else about to start a new cycle as well? Baby dust to all! 


My Ovulation Chart


----------



## Ask4joy

Hi ladies - I am officially a "retired" teacher (for a couple years at least...). Definitely lots of mixed emotions...feeling excited and relieved (no more 2-3 hours of commute every day)! Really thought I'd be pregnant by now and feeling kinda anxious about our plan of me not working as DH hasn't found a job yet. I get paid through August which helps. I do feel good knowing I won't be stressed by working and will be in a better place to conceive! 

Waiting for my positive opk then I'll go in for IUI #2. Both ovaries feel very full! But honestly the side effects were less for me on the 100mg!

Earth - I agree, 100mg seems like the best next step.

Belle - hope you get several big follies again!

Welcome clapper!


----------



## LC89

Hello Everyone,

Not much of a update for me, I had a +OPK on cd 15 today is CD 31 still no AF and no BFP. AF was due to show up yesterday but no sign of her. IDK what's going on :shrug: 


How is everyone else doing?


----------



## steph1607

Ask, a work free period might be just what you need. Stress can do such ridiculous things to our bodies.

AFM, sadly back in rainy England where everything is doom and gloom in the news at the moment. But our holiday was wonderfully relaxing. After my last failed Clomid cycle, the fertility doctor doesn't want me to do anything else until I see him on July 3rd.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

starting Provera tonight but for 5 days.


----------



## LAR83

Congrats Ask for being able to take some time off! Do you know what you'll be doing during this time period?

Fx for you LC!

We sucked at BDing this cycle. Doctor recommended we do it 3 specific days and we only did it one time. Ugh.. sometimes life just happens. At least i will probably get to go on my trip to the caribbean in July.

I went to a new doctor today and got a full thyroid panel. My results will be in a week. Looking forward to seeing how that looks.


----------



## Ask4joy

Thanks Steph & Lar - I'm pretty excited! I'm going to spend some time working on some projects on our "new" century home and will probably substitute teach part time and/or work on some business ideas that DH and I have. I sell on a site called Poshmark and want to put more time into developing that too. It will be so nice to have a more relaxed schedule and not be super stressed all the time!

Looks like I got my +opk this morning...tests faded to super light the last 3 days and is much darker today but not darker than the control line. I'll post the pic. I am assuming it is the start of my surge (based on my temps too) so I will be calling my clinic to schedule the IUI for Sunday I guess! We are at my summer cottage for the weekend and we're hoping to stay another night (it's only an hour from our home now) but looks like we will head back home later today.

How's everyone else doing?
 



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## LC89

:nope: AF showed this morning...so CD1 I guess.

My Dr. has me on 50 mg clomid but I have ALOT extra should I try 75 or 100 mg this time or stay at 50mg? :cry::shrug:


----------



## steph1607

I would say stay at 50mg LC. I've heard Clomid works best when you take the lowest dose that your body responds to. See what the other girls say too. Are you taking it CD 2-6?


----------



## Ask4joy

My doc bumped me from 50 to 100 even though I ovulated on 50 (only 1 mature follicle each time). He is the head of RE at the clinic so I guess I trust his instructions!

OPK looked more positive after second pee so IUI is scheduled for tomorrow morning. Hope it doesn't hurt this time!


----------



## BelleNuit

LC did you O on the 50mg dose last time? If so stick with that!

Lar good luck with the testing!

Ask the new relaxed lifestyle sounds lovely! Good luck with your IUI!

Earth, hoping AF comes soon so you can try again!

AFM, AF is finished and one more day left of femara. Will go back for CD 10 ultrasound on Wednesday. Hoping for a couple eggs at least.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

If you od, stay on 50. If not, 100. 

Im hoping AF shows soon!!


----------



## Norelisa

The move is going rather smoothly, but we have been living like nomads since we left our flat end of May. We are now staying with friends until we fly to Paris on Thursday. 

Steph, I didn't realise you lived in the UK- we'll be country neighbours soon :)

I'm a few day past o, FF changed my o date, and it seems to be OK accurate-ish.. 


Hopefully no bugs with getting into the French system again. Fingers crossed that we can start iuis already this autumn.. :)


----------



## steph1607

Europe buddies! (With or without the stupid stuff my country is currently doing!) I can't promise Thai weather Nor, but it hasn't been too bad in this part of the world recently.

Do you think it's a case of just registering with a doctor, giving them all your notes from before and cracking on?


----------



## Norelisa

steph1607 said:


> Europe buddies! (With or without the stupid stuff my country is currently doing!) I can't promise Thai weather Nor, but it hasn't been too bad in this part of the world recently.
> 
> Do you think it's a case of just registering with a doctor, giving them all your notes from before and cracking on?

No, I'm afraid it'll be more paper work and back and forth.. We'll see, I guess as my hubby is French and will have an insurance we could go then and ask how to proceed.. Sigh, not looking forward to it, I guess the easiest would be if I found a job quickly, as that would require me to enter the system.. I do have the European health card though.. 

Yeah, we will definitely miss the year round hot weather, but this is a very good time to go home too :)


----------



## Ask4joy

So DH couldn't get the job done this morning with the collection condom or cup. We missed our appointment. We ended up BDing naturally after the pressure was gone. Feeling pretty disappointed but glad we at least still have a chance naturally. The nurse said next month we can freeze a sample as a back up.


----------



## steph1607

Oh Ask, how frustrating for you both. Really feel dr you. Positive that you have still been able to have a natural shot at it though. That really is one of the crappy things that goes hand in hand with fertility problems.

A couple of times last cycle on Clomid, poor DH was unable to get the job done and it's just horrible. He feels so bad, I feel bad that he can tell I'm frustrated, we both feel panicked that we might miss our one shot... just goes round and round. Turns out I didn't O anyway so all that fuss over nothing &#128514;


----------



## Ask4joy

Thanks Steph. I'm still hoping we have a chance naturally since we did concieve naturally in March. Going to continue with the progesterone after O is confirmed. Hopefully the 100mg clomid gave me a couple of good eggs! Both ovaries feel like they are going to pop! BDing was a bit painful this morning which didn't help the situation! 

All this pressure around timing definitely makes things difficult - for both of us! I get stressed out and have a hard time relaxing myself after that +opk. I just want to get these IUIs over with so we can move on if need be.


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## BelleNuit

How frustrating Ask! I think its a great idea to have a couple frozen samples just in case. I understand what you mean about just wanting to get the IUIs over with. You do still have a decent chance at a natural conception so I'll keep my FX for you!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle. Pretty sure I ovulated from both sides today...holy ovulation pain. Part of me wanted to try the 100mg clomid on it's own and see if I had success...if not then we will try IUI again next month.

How are you doing?


----------



## BelleNuit

Sounds like a great plan to me Ask!

AFM, I finished up my last dose of femara today. Will go back for my CD 10 ultrasound on Wednesday. Overall I'm feeling pretty broken these days. Not only am I exhausted (lovely SE of the femara) and feeling pretty defeated over my infertility, I've also developed awful seasonal allergies, and hurt my hip to the point where I need physiotherapy to treat it. So this next week is going to be pretty hectic between multiple acupuncture appointments, multiple physio appointments, and multiple ultrasound appointments plus an IUI. The only saving grace is that I have complete control over my work schedule (aside from a few scheduled therapy groups that I facilitate). So ya, I'm just generally feeling really run down and pretty depressed about my whole situation.


----------



## Ask4joy

That's a lot, Belle. I'm sorry you are dealing with all of that. It's good you have flexibility with work. I feel like I'm finally getting my head above water with the school year over. And finally catching up on sleep...I slept nearly 12 hours last night! 

Hoping you have a quick recovery with your hip and that the IUI goes well!


----------



## LC89

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I did O on 50mg so I will stay on 50 this month again. Steph my dr has me on days 5-10.

I go back to see my dr the 22nd of this month, I wish he would monitor my cycles so I could have more info about them, do I have to ask him to do that?:shrug:

( self advocacy is not my strong point ):nope:


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## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> Thanks for the reply's everyone. I did O on 50mg so I will stay on 50 this month again. Steph my dr has me on days 5-10.
> 
> I go back to see my dr the 22nd of this month, I wish he would monitor my cycles so I could have more info about them, do I have to ask him to do that?:shrug:
> 
> ( self advocacy is not my strong point ):nope:

You could mention it and see what they do. IF i had a dr, i know they dont monitor. id have to go to an RE to be monitored. ( even some dont but usually they do). On my own, i cant get an u/s, thats the only thing OOP i cant get, but i wish i could!! 

Say " I was wondering if your protocol included a follicle check or any bloodwork?"


----------



## LC89

thanks. I will ask him when I go to see him on the 22nd. Also that's right around O time for me this month so maybe he can do a follicle check if its not to late in my cycle :shrug:


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

LC89 said:


> thanks Steph. I will ask him when I go to see him on the 22nd. Also that's right around O time for me this month so maybe he can do a follicle check if its not to late in my cycle :shrug:

usually they do a follie check around cd10-12ish.... a week or so before O.


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Last dose of provera was yesterday. 10mg for 5 days. Hurry up AF!!


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## BelleNuit

Sounds like I will end up with 2 follies this cycle. There are 3 smaller ones at the 9-10mm range but doc doesn't think they'll be able to catch up to the two 13mm ones. The good news is that my lining is already thicker than last cycle (so even though I'll just end up with 2 eggs the five follies are all kicking out a bunch of estrogen which probably boosted my lining!). I'm attributing it to the acupuncture! Actual evidence that it works!


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## Ask4joy

That's great, Belle!

FF gave me CH today. Starting progesterone (reluctantly) tonight. 

DH has a job offer but it's more than 25% less than he was making before...he might have to take it for the time being. He has an interview with another company that was set up through a recruiter next week that is supposed to be in his salary range. He's meeting with the president so hopefully it's a good sign!


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## BelleNuit

Ooh I'll keep my FX for you Ask that the interview goes well for your DH!


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## BelleNuit

Well on Wednesday it looked like I would get 2 follies but today it's looking like just 1. But maybe 3 if my body holds off (it usually doesn't lol). 

Wednesday I had 6 follies with the 2 biggest being 13 mm. Today I had 3 follies, a 16mm, 13 and a 12. So one of my 13mm ones didn't grow at all. My lining is nice and thick though 8.1mm. which is exciting. It's never been that thick before! I'm positive a thin lining is part of the reason why we can't get pregnant.

It's likely that I will get my LH surge this weekend and when I do I will trigger and go in that day for the IUI. 

If I don't surge (unlikely I think) I'll be back for another ultrasound on Monday.

Hoping one follicle and a thick lining will be enough. Last cycle 3 follicles and a thin lining didn't work out for me lol. 

The trigger might also mature some of those smaller follicles. Here's to hoping they'll sneak in under the wire


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## rickyandlucy

Hi all. Feeling down today. Managed to make myself wait until today, Father's Day, 13 DPO, to test, only to get a BFN. I have concluded that at this point I am just waiting for AF to make an appearance, and once she does I have decided that I will finally call the RE.

Besides getting a SA, what should I expect from the RE in terms of the next steps? I've already done 5 rounds of clomid, I don't actually want to try anymore at this point. It just feels pointless.


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## BelleNuit

Hi Lucy, I'm sorry you have found yourself at this point. This is what the usual testing is when you first go to a clinic

SA
HSG
CD 3 and 21 blood work
Internal ultrasound to check for cysts or polyps

I ended up getting my surge yesterday so I triggered and went in for the IUI. Pretty sure I have one follie, but a nice thick lining. DH's SA was fantastic, 53 million count after wash with 88% rapid motility. Because I triggered I won't be testing early. I'll just go in for my bloodwork on Canada Day. I also don't need to get progesterone levels checked because I triggered, woo hoo for one less appointment.


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## OnErth&InHvn

If you have tried Clomid, they may switch to FE and if after that, then theyll add trigger and possibly injects, then IUI


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## OnErth&InHvn

Old blood type spotting/light AF just now! I pray it gets heavier so i can start 100mg Clomid tomorrow!!!!! 

" plan":
AF 6/20 
Clomid 6/20-6/25
O around 7/5-7/8


:happydance:


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## babylights

Hi ladies I'd love to join you all. I'm CD4 and just took my first dosage of Femara last night. We did our first round of Clomid last month, but because my lining was on the thin side I asked to be switched to Femara. I had my second CP last month so I'm wondering if my lining is an issue, although it's more likely that it's an egg quality issue. I also have an HSG scheduled for this Friday. We will be moving on to IVF if we don't get pregnant in the next two months so holding out hope for a miracle. 

Anyway, excited to follow along with everyone here!


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## BelleNuit

Welcome babylights, I do have issues with thin lining on natural cycles and have never gotten a bfp. I think if your lining was thick enough for implantation to happen twice that there is likely something else is going on. I'm sorry about your CPs and do hope that you'll get a sticky one soon. 

I think femara will be a good choice. I am on femara as well and my lining has actually gotten thicker on it (it was 8mm on CD 12 this cycle with acupuncture and on a natural cycle it was only 5mm by CD 15). I also used acupuncture which boosted my lining this round. The cycle without acupuncture and only femara it got to 6.7mm by CD 12.

Can I ask if there is a reason why you are thinking about moving on to IVF so soon?


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## babylights

Hi Belle! That's so great that your lining got thicker, I just recently started acupuncture again so I hope I have a good result as well. 

We definitely never thought we'd even be considering IVF this quickly, but we've had a couple doctors suggest that route after three rounds of Clomid/Femara because I'm 36 and my FSH is 12.4. Most everyone says it's not for #1, but planning for any subsequent kids we may want to have. My AFC was also on the lower side at 11, so with those two numbers plus the two CP, I really think it may be an egg quality issue and IVF is the option that will give us the best chances and most peace of mind. 

We also live in the heart of Silicon Valley so I can't help but feel like people are much more blasé about IVF here.


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## LAR83

Hey everyone. AF came and I am going to be taking a break from TTC for a while because in July I'm going on vacation to a country in the caribbean that has Zika. Not sure how long of a break, but probably up to 6 months. I will still check in here sometimes, and may even post every now and then, especially if I see good news. I sincerely hope you'll all be out of here by January, but if you happen to still be here, I'll see you then. Sending out lots of :dust: as always to all you ladies!!


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## BelleNuit

I hope the acupuncture helps for you! I think that makes sense and like you say you're planning for future kids this way. There might be an egg quality issue going on and IVF really is the best treatment for that!

I wonder if my body kicks out eggs a little too quickly so they're not quite mature yet. On my monitored cycles my LH surge seems to happen when they're about 17-18mm.


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## BelleNuit

Lar I hope you will have a lovely vacation and great break from TTC! If I'm still here in January I'll likely be going through IVF so we'll be able to commiserate over that lol.


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## babylights

Lar I hope you have the best time on vacation and a lovely break from ttc!

Belle can upping the Femara help with maturing your eggs more quickly so that when your LH surge hits they're further along? Or does it only help with the strength of the surge? Sorry I don't know if that's a completely ridiculous question!


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## OnErth&InHvn

FE doesnt help mature the eggs anymore than they will. Thats where FSH comes in. 

-----
LAR. Im so sorry. I have a good feeling ill be here in Jan but by then we will be NTNP and cant go further.


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## babylights

But doesn't it suppress estrogen such that it increases the FSH response?


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## BelleNuit

Femara does work by increasing FSH to create follicles, but I don't think it has much of an impact on the LH surge and I don't know how much it affects how mature the follicles get. I always seem to get the LH surge around the 18mm range, other people might get the LH surge when their follicles are at the 20mm range. Maybe if you take the femara from CD 5-9 you might end up with a single larger follicle? With the femara CD 3-7 I seem to get many smaller follicles. Once you stop taking the femara your follicles start producing estrogen. If you have many smaller follicles you will have more estrogen than if you have one single large follicle. That higher estrogen triggers the LH surge.


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## babylights

That's interesting. With Clomid CD 5-9 I had two follicles that didn't release until I triggered CD18, and this cycle I'm taking Femara CD 3-7 so I'll be interested in seeing how many follicles I have and whether I need to trigger. I usually ovulate on my own around CD16. 

It's so frustrating that despite all the technological advances it's still such an "inexact science" - ugh.


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## steph1607

Oh hi Babylights, nice to see you over here!

Lar, have a wonderfully relaxing holiday. I'm hoping so much that I get a BFP before January, but I reckon I will still be hanging around on these forums either way :)

Earth, hope AF has arrived properly today?

AFM, CD 45. Counting down the days until July 3rd when we go back to the fertility doctor.


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## Ask4joy

Welcome baby lights! It sounds like we are in similar situations. I am 34 and while my fsh is 8, I've had 2 cps in the last year. I am so sorry for your losses. I am going to a different RE this morning for a consult and 2nd opinion. I suspect egg quality is my issue too but have never been told that. The plan is to do 2 more rounds of IUI then move onto IVF...but we will see what this RE thinks. 

9dpo today and bfn on a wondfo. Wonder what my ultrasound this morning will reveal. (Obviously too early to see anything in terms of implantation).

LAR - have a wonderful vacation and break from ttc. Wishing you the best! Please don't be a stranger!

Steph - eager to hear what your next step is! 

How are you doing Belle? Was the 2nd IUI less painful than the first? That's an awesome post wash count! DHs 15 million at our IUI in April is starting to make me wonder now even though the nurse said it was "good".


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## OnErth&InHvn

Woke up to nothing. ...dang it! It was enough for a pad, old blood but tapered to nothing after the pool. Does that count as cd1 or spotting since nothing after?


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## BelleNuit

Second IUI was a breeze Ask. I actually felt good enough to go out to a party that night lol. The first IUI was horrible, I just laid in bed all afternoon cramping and bleeding and sleeping. I think a count of 15 million is good! Higher counts don't really help for much. DH has always had really impressive counts and we still have never gotten pregnant so I don't think its really doing us any favours.


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## steph1607

Glad the second one was much less unpleasant Belle &#128522;

Earth, I was told to count spotting as day 1, but that's because my periods are essentially non existant so it's kind of a case as just go with what I've got. But I think for 'normal' people, CD1 should be the first day of 'fresh' blood.


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## rickyandlucy

Decided not to wait for AF to ruin my day. Sent an appt request to the RE's office. Pretty sure it's just a matter of time before she shows up.


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## Ask4joy

Sooo interesting turn of events. Finished up my consult with my new RE. She recommends IVF as next step (no more IUI). The success rates for IUI are still so low and she thinks given our situation and ages our money will be better spent with IVF. (She showed me lots of stats). We both had blood taken for recurrent miscarriage panel and some kind of genetic screening. Next month I'll have my OAR re-done since it's been a year and a hysteroscopy...then it looks like IVF probably in August. We have an informational meeting to attend tomorrow eve. She recommends that we do the genetic screening (PGD) with IVF due to my age and CPs to increase my chances. Eek. Excited and nervous!

Belle - so glad the 2nd time was a breeze! Yay! 

Earth - sorry no AF yet but spotting is a good sign!

FX for you still Steph!


----------



## steph1607

Oh blimey Ask, that must have been so strange to hear that it's going to be happening a lot sooner than you thought. Definitely exciting although of course I understand that you'll be feeling nervous. My word, August will be here before we know it! :hugs:


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## BelleNuit

Wow Ask that is coming up so soon! I really have high hopes for you for IVF.

I'm so frustrated being young and unexplained. I feel like I don't know what the best treatment option for us is. At this point IVF offers the same statisical success rate as continuing to just try on our own until the 2 year mark. At the 2 year mark the odds start to shift in favour of IVF, but in the meantime it's sucky not knowing what group you will fall into.


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## babylights

Oh wow Ask that's awesome! I think we're probably looking at around September as when we'd start IVF, Im going to be asking you lots of questions! I'm so sorry for your losses too, it really does feel like it's an egg quality issue in both our cases. I hope the recurrent miscarriage bloodwork gives you good answers, I'm hoping to get that done asap also. And that's good to know about the stats - we had an RE tell us to skip IUI and go straight to IVF but I wasn't sure if that was only bc his clinic only offers IVF. I'm so excited for you!! It's certainly not ideal that we'd need IVF but when you think about the fact that it ups your chances for a baby it really changed my perspective.


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## Ask4joy

It IS soon! She said it's usually about 2 months from when you decide to do IVF to when you do it. 

Unexplained is SO frustrating. Especially if you are younger, I'm sure! I was surprised when she told me that at 34 likely 60% of my eggs are abnornal. Wow! 

She said we could try injectables but the success rate probably wasn't worth the cost.

I guess we will have 2 more months to try naturally.

Babylights - I totally agree. It would be great to have gotten and stayed pregnant naturally but unfortunately that hasn't happened. This clinic offers IUI as well and my friend chose to do 8 IUIs before doing IVF and getting pregnant at the same clinic. I feel optimistic about IVF. We can be buddies!


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## Norelisa

Welcome babylights:)


I hope to join the iui / ivf gang soon too :) Hubby has decided that he'll take family insurance so that I can get quicker into the French system.. Instead of paying 9 euro a month for him he has to pay 131 euro a month to include me, so I also feel a bit bad.. :( I don't need the health insurance for anything but the fertility thing :/

I am waiting for af, spotting for past two days.. And we are staying with mother in law which wasn't planned, aaaaahg!! Since hubby has to take 3 weeks holiday in August he would like to wait to take a flat until September. However, I'll be flat hunting tomorrow coz if we find something he's ok taking it... (the flat).


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## babylights

Ask I would love to be buddies! It's so great that you have a friend who had a successful IVF at the same clinic! So would you start with bcp in July? I'm so so excited for you!!

Belle it seriously must be so frustrating. I so so hope your nice fluffy lining is just the thing you needed!

Nore hi, thanks for the welcome! Don't feel bad about the insurance, you guys are in this together! Good luck with the flat hunting!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Cd2 officially. Starring 100mg clomid tonight.


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## steph1607

Welcome back to Europe, Nore - you've definitely brought the weather with you! As Babylights says, don't feel bad about the health insurance. DH wants this as much as you do. Good luck with the flat hunting.

Belle, I can't imagine how frustrating this must be for you both. I get frustrated enough as it is, and I even have something to blame it on. How are you feeling at the moment post-IUI?

Earth glad to hear you've been able to start the Clomid. Fingers crossed that 100mg will be the one for you.

AFM, of course nothing to report - CD46 now. Annoyingly had a few spots on my face these past few days. Putting it down to sun cream and sweat, but of course nothing like googling "spots and early pregnancy" and then getting your hopes up :haha:


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## Norelisa

Af.. Welcome back...


I have been looking into getting into the French system and all I miss is a recent birth certificate, which I have now ordered. So in a few weeks time I can ask for "membership". 

Yes, it's extremely hot here in France as well, so not a big change.. Other than missing the air con.. Phew.. 

Apparently my whole family in law thinks I'm the problem for not getting pregnant. I talked to my sister in law today, she is very understanding and nice and wasn't surprised that mother in law has been telling everyone that I'm the problem.. Hubby kinda forgot to mention his SA analysis and 3% morphology... Grr..


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## Ask4joy

Nor - ugh sorry about another AF. I'm glad things are moving along with getting into the French system. Sorry your MIL is being such a...you know what. I have no tolerance for that kinda stuff and probably would have had some choice words for anyone saying such things...blame it on the hormones. ;) 

12dpo for me and BFN on FRER. Had a good cry. On to IVF and poverty! We went to the mandatory IVF info session the other night and the IVF nurse called yesterday to get the ball rolling with some additional testing that is required. A lot of mixed emotions...but hopefully by the Fall I'll be puking and feeling like crap. Lol.

Steph - I know how frustrating symptom spotting is! Being on progesterone I'd swear I was pregnant...super sore breasts and nipples, temps keep rising...but BFN! Argh! 

How's everyone else doing? I guess I'm not going to be in the clomid club anymore but I hope you don't mind if I stick around!


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## rickyandlucy

LOL yes Ask please stay! :) I haven't technically been a clomid buddy since March, but sorry, you guys are stuck with me! 

I am 18 DPO, CD 36. Still waiting for AF. Might test tomorrow. Or Sunday. We shall see...


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## rickyandlucy

Looks like it's off to the RE for us...AF just got me...:cry:


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## Ask4joy

Aw I'm sorry Lucy :hugs: The good news is an RE can look at all your records and develop a plan and hopefully it won't be long before you are pregnant! I know how hard it is to move to the next step and feel like plan A or B or C has failed but you are heading in the right direction!


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## Ask4joy

Spoiler
I guess I spoke too soon! I've had very very faint positives within the 10 minute mark yesterday afternoon and this morning. Feeling pretty nervous as I'm 13dpo and the lines are so faint but definitely positive. Hoping it gets darker and I can breathe a sigh of relief.


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## LAR83

:happydance: Yay, Ask!!


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## LC89

YAY ASK! Congratulations :hugs::happydance:


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask!! YAY!!!!!!!!

What did you do this cycle? What did you do different?


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## Ask4joy

Thanks ladies! I was bumped up to 100mg clomid this cycle for the first time...other than that I just relaxed! Started drinking coffee again, had a glass or two of wine when I wanted, and stopped working which means I haven't been commuting 2.5 hours a day and have been getting lots of sleep and have been pretty relaxed! We continued taking our vitamins/supplements and I did pineapple core in my smoothies after O / around implantation time as I've done for awhile now. Still pretty cautious but hopeful this is it!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Finishing Clomid tonight. Ive been taking my Pregnitude during AF, which is different. Usually i take it after AF but i think thats not enough time since it helps with O and eggs. You never know, that extra week could make a difference..i hope anyway.


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## steph1607

Oh my goodness Ask, this is such wonderful news! When will you go and see your doctor?? 

<3 <3 <3


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## BelleNuit

Congrats Ask! You have a way of sneaking in a BFP before intervention. I'm hoping all will go well.


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## Ask4joy

Well it's not looking too good for me. I had a faint line on a Walmart cheapie this morning and took an FRER this eve when I got home and the faint line I had on one yesterday was totally gone. It was only a 1 hour hold but I still expected to see something. Can't stop crying. I wish I knew what was wrong with my body. :cry:


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## BelleNuit

It is still very early Ask. A 1 hour hold probably just wasn't enough. Check again in the morning. I'm hoping your line will still be there for you


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle. Trying to hold onto some hope but after seeing this happen twice before it's hard not to jump to conclusions. I hope the line is back tomorrow. I'll call my doctor's office for a blood test either way.


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## BelleNuit

Good plan. I know this is a difficult time considering all that has happened.


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## Norelisa

Fingers crossed Ask:)


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## Ask4joy

Super faint line on a FRER this morning with fmu. Guess I'll go in for a blood test to confirm what I already know. :(


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## BelleNuit

If the lines started out super faint it could all be okay. I do have a good feeling for you, whatever that is worth


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle...they've been faint for the last few days but getting even fainter / almost invisible. I guess anything is possible but I'll be honest, I don't really have any hope...maybe I should but I was sooo happy for a day or two and it just made it harder.

How are you doing?


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry Ask. I really hope its not another CP. I can't even imagine how difficult those must be to go through. I'm here for you either way. 

I'm doing okay. Not feeling any different. I didn't even get any SE/symptoms with the trigger. I don't know how many dpo I am either. I'm getting a blood test done on Friday since all of the clinics are closed Saturday when I'm supposed to have it done. I feel completely normal so I dunno.


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## Ask4joy

I felt normal this time other than sore breasts which I typically get anyway and which progesterone can exacerbate. I think it's normal not to have any significant symptoms until 6 weeks from what I've read. So I wouldn't think too much about that!


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## BelleNuit

Ya, my breasts feel fine. I have had moments where they just ached (but not when touched which was weird, just the whole area was achy) but its intermittent and doesn't last long. So I dunno. Good to know not feeling any different doesn't mean anything. Guess I'll just have to wait and see (like always).


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## Ask4joy

In some ways I feel like the months I've conceived I had fewer symptoms. Who knows. I did get this crazy blurred vision last Sunday and felt like I was going to faint. Never had that before.

Just had my blood drawn. Will have results in a few hours. I'm guessing my blood test will come back negative as in March my test line was darker than today and my blood hcg was only 6 (barely considered pregnant)! I guess it filters out of your blood first, then your urine.

Got some of the results back from the RPL panel...thyroid normal and the other auto-immune stuff (not sure what all it was) was normal too. Still waiting on the karyotyping for both DH and I.


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## babylights

Oh Ask I'm keeping everything crossed for you, I understand exactly what you're going through and could have written everything you wrote verbatim. Sending so many good thoughts, please be extra kind to yourself &#10084;&#65039;


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> I felt normal this time other than sore breasts which I typically get anyway and which progesterone can exacerbate. I think it's normal not to have any significant symptoms until 6 weeks from what I've read. So I wouldn't think too much about that!

Everyone is different. With DS, i had NO symptoms. NONE. I didnt know i was preg til 3mo. DD1, I had sickness and cravings around 4-5wk. DD2, sickness at 3wks ( and it never went away). Angel DS- I didnt have any symptoms.


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## Ask4joy

Thank you babylights! 3 CPs in a year (and 2 in the last 3 months) definitely worries me. But maybe it's just bad luck! I've gotta get a good embryo sooner or later! I guess IVF will help with that.


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## Ask4joy

I'm so confused. The nurse called to say my blood hcg test was negative. I said I wasn't surprised as my chemical in March was 6 and I was still getting faint lines for a day after the blood test (I guess it filters out of your blood first then urine). I asked what my hcg level was and she said "there was no level"...I said, "so it was 0?" And she said "yes". Now that seems impossible. I had faint positives for 3 days on 2 different brands! Maybe she just saw that it was negative (below 5) and the actual number wasn't listed? I've tested every month for 15 months and I know a bfn from a bfp. Now I feel crazy.


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## babylights

Ask if you're crazy then so am I sister - I literally just wrote about this in my journal this morning. Is it something you can speak with your RE about? I plan on asking at my appt on Friday.


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## Ask4joy

Yes I am def going to ask my RE! Here is a pic of my test 12dpo ...it's dried now and it's harder to see because it turned yellow (my prenatals make my pee really yellow ew!). It was darkest at 12dpo and today at 15dpo was barely visible with fmu and totally gone with smu.
 



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## babylights

Yup def see it, def not crazy!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks babylights...my best guess is that the embryo just started to implant and my hcg just barely got high enough to show faint positives but was already on it's way out and had already filtered out of my blood by today. Makes me wonder what is going on...my guess is this has happened more than 3 times but my hcg has only barely gotten high enough 3 times to show up on a test. Why is the embryo dying as soon as it starts to implant? All the immunological tests have come back normal. :huh:


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## babylights

That's exactly what I was thinking for myself too. My blood tests were at <1 after just two days of faint positives both months so I think mine were even earlier losses than yours. Really makes me worry about my egg quality. I'm sorry that we're both in this unfortunate position but I take a little bit of solace that we're not alone. Let me know what your RE says and I'll do the same. Huge hugs &#10084;&#65039;


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## BelleNuit

Ask my guess is it is a sperm or egg quality issue. Sometimes eggs won't have enough energy to keep dividing past a certain point. In other cases there are sperm DNA fragmentation issues so that the embryo will divide well in the beginning but result in a CP later on when the division becomes increasingly embryo lead. Either way I do think IVF and embryo testing will be the best route. I'm sorry this is happening!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks girls. I am going to ask about the DNA fragmentation test. DH has to do another SA before IVF with the new clinic so maybe they can do both with the same sample? It may determine whether we do ICSI. At our IVF info session we learned that they like morphology to be above 15% and DH's was 13% last November at his SA. That combined with my aging eggs may be our problem.


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## BelleNuit

Ya my DH only had 10% morphology and he continues to drink heavily. At least he's smoking less weed. He's such an idiot sometimes lol. I think it's smart for you to get that fragmentation test


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## Ask4joy

I indulged a little myself this month too (DH didn't because of the job scenario) but I don't really think that has anything to do with the cp...may have even helped me relax and GET pregnant.


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## LAR83

ugh.. Ask I am so sorry you are going through this again! IVF should help, like you said, especially if you get the embryos tested before using them, but still.. it must be so heartbreaking to have to go through this, especially so many times :-( :hugs:

I found out that there is a good chance I can get tested for Zika when I get back from my vacation, so I may not have to wait 6 months, which is very exciting. 

For those who take ubiquinol, what brand do you use? I was taking 600mg/ day and then I ran out of pills. I need to buy more now, but taking 600mg a day is pretty expensive. Just wondering if anyone has found any that are more affordable.


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## BelleNuit

I only take the coq10 leading up to O which does keep the cost down somewhat!


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## Ask4joy

Thank you, LAR...it sucks, but so does trying for so long which I know we all understand. Thank goodness for science! I'm thinking we should do one more month on 100mg clomid. What do you all think? It may have helped me concieve faster and maybe 2-3 more eggs/embryos will give me 1 good one? And it's cheap!

Here's the coq10 we take...we only take 100mg a day because it's so expensive (and this is a cheaper one) but I really think we need to be taking more! 

I just want to say I am very grateful for all of you and don't know if I'd still be half sane without your support!
 



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## babylights

That's also the same Ubiquinol that we take, Jarrow Formulas.

Ask, how many rounds of Clomid have you done? Multiple doctors have recommended we try three before moving on to IVF.


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## BelleNuit

Lar thats great news you can get tested for Zika, can your husband be checked too? is it the same protocol for him??

Honestly Ask you seem to be handling everything really well. I just feel very strongly that IVF is going to work for you! Like you say, thank goodness for science!

I got invited to a close friend's (who is also my cousin) son's first birthday in a couple weeks. Her kids call me aunty and I know they would really want me to be there. But depending on the outcome of this IUI I'm thinking of not going. I was only able to hold her baby for the first time a couple weeks ago, a few months ago I could barely look at him it hurt so much (so I am making progress lol). I think a first birthday would be really difficult for me. She knows about the infertility but I don't know if she would understand if I told her that was the reason why I couldn't be there. I don't really want to make up some crummy excuse either. I dunno, I might just wait and see what happens this week and go from there. I went to her daughter's 3rd birthday last year and even that was sad for me. You get into those situations and you start to wonder if you will ever get to celebrate the first birthday of your own child.


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## babylights

Belle honestly if it were me I wouldn't go. I just don't trust myself not to burst out crying these days and although I'm sure they really want you to be there, sometimes you really do have to think of yourself first. Sorry if that sounds super harsh toward your friend/cousin, but I can't imagine how hard you'd have to work to not only be there, but to put on a happy face while you're in so much pain? It sounds like a lot and you shouldn't have to go through that â¤ï¸


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## BelleNuit

Thanks lights. I know first birthdays are important. I know I wouldn't burst into tears at the party, but I can't promise that I wouldn't bawl on the drive home, and I'm tired of feeling that way. I'm being selfishly self-protective I know. I'm just tired of being in situations where my heart aches and there is no easy fix.


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## Ask4joy

Babylights - I've done 5 rounds of clomid but 4 were 50mg and I was only ovulating 1 egg. Last month was my first round on 100mg. It's definitely a lot cheaper than IVF but doesn't raise success rates that much for unexplained.

Belle - I'm not going to my step-sister's baby shower for that same reason. Why put ourselves through that? And I don't want to ruin her day by choking back tears or pretending to be happy when my heart is breaking. Take care of yourself and if you think you'll be forcing a smile the whole time maybe think twice about going.


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## steph1607

Missed this whole conversation last night, damn the time difference! Really sorry Ask, you're right, everything does suck. I don't think you have anything to lose by trying one more round at 100mg. It obviously did something and like you say, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than IVF.

As for the baby showers, I am 100% with you all. I haven't been to one since my nephew was born and I wasn't even trying then so it didn't affect me, but I could not do it now. I work at a university and sometimes have to deal with students interrupting their studies due to pregnancies - I barely even know these people and even that hurts. One of DH's friends (I might have said before) announced in April that his girlfriend since September had fallen unexpectedly pregnant. We saw them a couple of weeks ago and she strolled in with this lovely bump. Thank God it was sunny and I was wearing dark glasses... I tried so hard to ask all the right questions and give all the right reactions, but I found the whole thing exhausting. They're both such lovely people and I just end up feeling like such a bitch. My husband is wonderful and so understanding, but I think he does struggle to understand that side of things. So I try not to really say too much about it to him because I don't want him to think I'm some kind of jealous, evil woman!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks ladies, I think I'm going to wait and see how I feel that day, but I'm leaning towards not going. I'll just spend the day hanging out with my dog instead lol. She's become a replacement for a baby for DH and I. 

I agree Ask, those ovulation induction meds aren't fixing anything for unexplained. I hate that it is likely that you'll have to do IVF, but I'm so excited to see it work for you!


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## babylights

Ask I would def treat the first four rounds of Clomid as one round. 

Belle I think I say nightly that I never would've gotten through all of this without our pups. Just love those faces!!


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## Ask4joy

Sounds like a good plan, Belle. I call our kittens (who are growing like weeds) my therapy cats! When I realized I was having another CP and was lying on my bed crying my little girl kitty came over and started snuggling with me...it really made me feel so much better. And they are me and DH's first pets that we adopted together so they feel like our little babies.

I realize it probably won't work but I'm thinking I'll give 100mg clomid one more go. That also gives me an extra month to be extra healthy and improve my egg quality as much as possible before IVF. The month after that I'll probably be put on birth control (part of the IVF protocol) then have my retrieval IVF in September. I think with PGS they usually do a FET the next cycle because they have to wait for the test results before transferring...maybe not a bad thing bc I've read some places that frozen transfers may be more successful than fresh after all the stims. It's good to have a plan! My fear is that they will do PGS and I won't have any normal embryos...but I read that 90% of women my age have at least 1. Maybe depending on how many blasts we get we will decide how to proceed regarding PGS (and how many to transfer - 1 or 2).

Steph - it's definitely hard talking to pregnant friends. Especially ones that "weren't trying". The only thing that gets me through it is telling myself that my time will come and that I'm going to love every second of it! Even when I'm puking! Lol


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## babylights

Have you considered doing 150mg for the last hurrah?


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## Norelisa

You need 15% morph for IVF? :( Then we are out even before beginning.. :( sigh.. hubby still don't take his supplements and vitamins every day so guess his swimmers are getting lazier by the day, and I get so frustrated - we know he is part of the problem - so why should only I be trying?!

We are still staying with my mother in law, hubby started working last week and this week he is already away (yay).. Tomorrow evening I will start viewing some flats, and hopefully my birth certificate will arrive soon so that I can get into the system here soon... Vive la France... I feel like crying almost every day, I don't think we made a good decision moving here :(


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## rickyandlucy

Ask, I am so sorry. You do sound like you are handling it all really well, but I am sure it is so hard. <3 :hugs:

Belle, I think that's a good plan to wait and see how you feel. And if you don't feel up for it that is ok. I don't think you even need to tell them why; they may not understand. I skipped a first birthday party myself this year for the same reason. But it's weird, I was a mess at my sis in law's bridal shower (it happened to be the day after AF arrived), but I was fine at my husband's friend's baby shower.

So last Friday before AF made her appearance, DH and I went out to dinner. It's our usual place, and they know us there. Everybody seems to want us to have babies (don't think they realize that we want them too, lol), and we even got a long talk from the owner about how our furbaby doesn't replace a regular baby (DUH!). It's always just the two of us, but when we walk in they still always ask, "Just two?". This time DH tried to crack a joke about how hungry he was and said that we were "eating for three". The waitress started getting all excited and I had to explain that it wasn't true. Of course I was still hoping it was true, and was even planning to test the next morning, but then AF arrived right before bed. At least she saved me from wasting a digital.

I finally made an appt with the RE yesterday. They can't get us in until August 2. But we are going for a SA next Friday. Now that is going to be interesting. Any fellow Catholics here? :wacko:


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## rickyandlucy

Nore, I feel your pain. In our case we don't know yet if the problem is him or me (or both), but DH absolutely HATES his vitamins. He is always "forgetting" them. He says they taste really bad. Trying to get him to use up this batch before moving on to another brand. I am sorry you are feeling so down about the move. How long have you been there now? Hang in there girl. You have friends here! :)


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## Ask4joy

Lights - I've thought of it...DH mentioned it. But I don't want to thin my lining... I was only monitored on the 50mg and my lining was always good. I tend to have heavier periods so I don't think that's an issue...

Steph - I think I'm going to start telling people who make comments like that, "we are in the middle of fertility treatments...thanks for your interest!" That will shut them up. People just don't know better...

Nore - it doesn't have to be 15% to do IVF but if it's lower they often recommend ICSI where they select a sperm and fertilize the egg with it rather than letting it happen on it's own in the Petri dish.


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## BelleNuit

I read a study that under 14% morphology using the strict criteria is considered subfertile for natural TTC but that as long as above 5% normal forms are seen regular IVF works just as well as ICSI. If less than 5% normal forms then ICSI may be helpful. Also once fertilization is achieved regardless of the morphology embryo development progresses fairly normally. So this indicates that morphology might impair fertilization rates (particularly in the case of IUI where malformed tails can affect how the sperm move, which would not impact IVF), but poor morphology doesn't necessarily indicate a high degree of dna damage which would result in CPs and poor quality embryos.


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## Norelisa

rickyandlucy said:


> Nore, I feel your pain. In our case we don't know yet if the problem is him or me (or both), but DH absolutely HATES his vitamins. He is always "forgetting" them. He says they taste really bad. Trying to get him to use up this batch before moving on to another brand. I am sorry you are feeling so down about the move. How long have you been there now? Hang in there girl. You have friends here! :)

Nearly 2 weeks.. But staying with family and miss my "old"freedom.. And not too thrilled with some of the in laws (especially mother and brother in law).. They are very old fashioned and just annoying people.. 



Ask4joy said:


> Lights - I've thought of it...DH mentioned it. But I don't want to thin my lining... I was only monitored on the 50mg and my lining was always good. I tend to have heavier periods so I don't think that's an issue...
> 
> Steph - I think I'm going to start telling people who make comments like that, "we are in the middle of fertility treatments...thanks for your interest!" That will shut them up. People just don't know better...
> 
> Nore - it doesn't have to be 15% to do IVF but if it's lower they often recommend ICSI where they select a sperm and fertilize the egg with it rather than letting it happen on it's own in the Petri dish.




BelleNuit said:


> I read a study that under 14% morphology using the strict criteria is considered subfertile for natural TTC but that as long as above 5% normal forms are seen regular IVF works just as well as ICSI. If less than 5% normal forms then ICSI may be helpful. Also once fertilization is achieved regardless of the morphology embryo development progresses fairly normally. So this indicates that morphology might impair fertilization rates (particularly in the case of IUI where malformed tails can affect how the sperm move, which would not impact IVF), but poor morphology doesn't necessarily indicate a high degree of dna damage which would result in CPs and poor quality embryos.

Hopefully we can do ICSI here.. Sister in law, who is a nurse, told me that one has to see a shrink to do IVF here, will be interesting if it's the case, would be good for hubby to take a step back and understand his family flaws.. Sigh..


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## Ask4joy

That's good to know, Belle! The financial person from my clinic called me yesterday to go over costs and told me with PGS/PGD they usually do ICSI too...I will have to ask my doc about that as she didn't mention it. PGS is an additional $5000 (including freezing) and ICSI is another $1500...looks like our IVF bill is going to be closer to $18,000...yikes!!! We have saved for $10,000 so we are going to have to probably ask family for help. This better work!

No sign of AF yet and temps are still high ...stopped progesterone 2 days ago now. But maybe it will take longer after the cp...


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## BelleNuit

Wow it is so crazy expensive! We are also going to have to ask family to help if/when the time comes for IVF.

Nore I'm sorry the move has been so tough. I imagine there is a bit of culture shock too! That is interesting that you need to see a psychologist when you get IVF there. I think that is probably a good thing.

I had a tough time last night. I got a text from my mother saying my brother had some big news... 2 seconds later my brother called and I couldn't answer the phone because I was already sobbing. They're pregnant. After 1 month trying. I just cried and went to bed early. I'll have to call him back at some point today and let him share his big news.


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, I am so sorry. I can only imagine how that feels. I worry about the same thing happening with my brother and his wife...


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## steph1607

Oh Belle <3 It feels like a kick in the stomach doesn't it. I'm so sorry that you have to keep feeling like this. 

My goodness, I can't believe how expensive IVF is in the US/Canada. Here, you can get up to three rounds free on the NHS, BUT it depends on where abouts you live, and I think a lot of councils are changing their rules. Interestingly, my friend was telling me the other day about a friend of hers who is currently having IVF. The clinic where she is getting it offers an "egg share" option, so someone who for whatever reason can't have their own eggs pays for the donated eggs, and the person who donates then gets the IVF treatment free of charge. Of course you have to fulfill certain criteria before being able to donate in the first place, and like in France you also have to have counselling beforehand. Kind of nice to know that it could be an option one day.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Is it $18k for ONE round??? 

I say try 100mg again. :thumbup:

-----
CD10, WTO... which i BETTER do this cycle! :growlmad::growlmad::growlmad:


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## Ask4joy

Belle - I'm so sorry you are dealing with that. It seems the hardest when it is someone close to us. :hugs:

Earth - yes, one freakin round! And if it doesn't work and we don't end up with extra embryos to freeze we are screwed. My only hope right now is that DH's new job will offer some coverage but it seems unlikely. He's going in for his 2nd interview today and meets with the HR person at the end so he might get some idea about benefits. The cost does make me want to keep trying a little longer...after 3 CPs I know I can get pregnant and from my research most people with multiple MCs do go on to have a successful pregnancy eventually! I'm increasing our coq10 ubiquinol
to 400mg/day (which costs about $70/month). We have only been taking 100mg/day the last 4 months. I do feel encouraged that I've conceived twice in the last 4 cycles...


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## BelleNuit

Thanks everyone. I've honestly just felt sick to my stomach all day and I think it's because I'm just so afraid it's never going to happen for us


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Belle - I'm so sorry you are dealing with that. It seems the hardest when it is someone close to us. :hugs:
> 
> Earth - yes, one freakin round! And if it doesn't work and we don't end up with extra embryos to freeze we are screwed. My only hope right now is that DH's new job will offer some coverage but it seems unlikely. He's going in for his 2nd interview today and meets with the HR person at the end so he might get some idea about benefits. The cost does make me want to keep trying a little longer...after 3 CPs I know I can get pregnant and from my research most people with multiple MCs do go on to have a successful pregnancy eventually! I'm increasing our coq10 ubiquinol
> to 400mg/day (which costs about $70/month). We have only been taking 100mg/day the last 4 months. I do feel encouraged that I've conceived twice in the last 4 cycles...

wow. I know the chances are better but still not 100%. 18K per round and you have no idea how many it may take or what they may add/change about the process along the way. 

:hugs::hugs:


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## BelleNuit

It's an ugly bill to pay, but sometimes there is no other way.


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## Ask4joy

Exactly...and I'm not getting younger! If we have the money we will do it and if it doesn't work I guess we will keep trying naturally until we have more. When you think of how much we pay for our education, homes, cars, it seems like a small price to pay to start a family.

I'm sorry you are feeling so discouraged, Belle. I do believe your time will come and I hope it's soon! I have a friend who tried for 2 years, was diagnosed with unexplained, did 3 rounds of clomid, still wasn't pregnant and finally got pregnant on her 3rd round of femera + IUI. I hope IUI works for you too!


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## BelleNuit

I've been thinking that same thing Ask. I thought nothing of pulling out an $11 000 car loan, or accumulating close to $50 000 in student loans. It just seems like a tough pill to swallow because IVF isn't something that the average person has to pay for. 

I hope you are right Ask. I know there is still a chance for this cycle, but I'm just not feeling it. I'm looking into options for naturopathy. I have $500 in benefits I can spend on a naturopath, can't hurt to get some diet and lifestyle recommendations.


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## Ask4joy

The fact that it usually has to be paid upfront as a lump sum makes it hard but I know there are programs that do fertility related loans...there are also grants you can apply for and programs that may pay for your 2nd IVF if you paid for 1 and it didn't work. There are options...but it is so unfair. Everyone else gets to make babies for free! 

Naturopath sounds like a great idea. I've been thinking of doing acupuncture. My IVF clinic actually recommends it to help with stress. I've been reading more about stress and how it effects circulation and can decrease blood flow to the ovaries and uterus causing damage to the follicles, reducing egg quality and impairing implantation. Not sure if that's my issue but I know I struggle with stress and have been on and off anti-depressants and mood stabilizers since I was 18. I'm currently off everything and feeling pretty good now that school is out but I do have a quick trigger response to stress!


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## BelleNuit

I really do recommend acupuncture. My lining was much thicker and I had more follicles develop on my monitored cycle with acupuncture. It also is a huge stress relief for me


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, I know how you feel. It is completely normal. But you don't have to give up on your dream. You still have options. You can still do a couple more rounds of IUI. If that doesn't work, IVF. And I know I am the type of person that likes to always have a plan b and c; have you considered adoption?

I desperately want at least one, preferably two, biological children. But I am *trying* (not always successfully, lol) not to let TTC destroy me, because I know one way or another, I will be a mother. I know quite a few people who turned to adoption when they couldn't conceive, and quite a few of them still ended up having a child of their own along the way, despite the odds. I would imagine the odds of that happening would be even higher for those of us with unexplained infertility. So I know that even if we do end up turning to adoption, it doesn't mean we are giving up.

You are a long way from all that yet though. Just keep doing what you're doing, and keep your chin up. You will get there! <3


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Lucy. Adoption isn't the right option for us for many reasons. I know I would be okay with living a child free life if it came to it . 

I'm just frustrated and feeling impatient. Because we are unexplained and young we pretty much have to take a more conservative approach, which basically just means we'll be waiting longer. Seems unfair when some people don't have to wait at all.


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## rickyandlucy

Everything you are feeling is completely understandable. And I agree, it sucks major balls how fast it seems to happen for people who claim they weren't trying. I broke down in tears at one FB friend's PG announcement that she captioned "Unexpected, but we are expecting!".

But I really do think that chances are, it will happen for you. Of course no one knows how long it will take, but I really think it will happen. You are doing all the right things. And in some ways perhaps the fact that your diagnosis is unexplained (although super freaking frustrating) puts the odds in your favor <3


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## Ask4joy

I would consider embryo adoption or donor eggs/sperm before regular adoption...I really want to experience pregnancy and that way I would still feel like I played a role in the process of bringing my child into the world. If that wasn't an option I would consider regular adoption. We will cross that bridge if we come to it. 

Starting spotting this morning and my lower back pain in setting in so I should see full flow in the next few hours. 3 days since my last dose of progesterone - like clock work every time!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Lucy, I hope you're right. According to research there is an 80% chance that I will conceive if I pursue a treatment plan of expectant management-IUI-IVF.

Ask I would also consider embryo adoption, but I know there is a very (very) long waitlist for that where I live. If we were successful with IVF and had extra embryos I would give them up for adoption for this reason. 

Sorry to hear about your spotting Ask. I also started spotting this morning. HPT was negative so trigger is out of my system. 

A nurse at my clinic said it was time to renew blood work, so I sent in a message asking if I could have the requisition forms sent to me so that I can do this for July. I'm asking for Day 3, 21, prolactin, testosterone, thyroid and AMH. Also asked if there was anything that DH had to repeat.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle...I knew it was just a waiting game after the negative blood test and my hpts went negative. I'm sorry you are spotting too. How many dpo are you? 

As soon a AF shows I'll call and schedule my ovarian reserve testing for tomorrow or the next day. Mine is a year old so they want me to repeat it. My AMH 1 year ago was 3.0 which is really good for my age and indicates I'll respond well to IVF so I hope it hasn't changed! DH has to do another SA too...poor guy has a hard time with that. We will definitely have to have a sample frozen ahead of time if/when we do IVF.


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## Ask4joy

AF showed a few hours ago. Feeling pretty emotional. Expecting I'll pass some tissue/clots soon like I have with my past CPs. Definitely having a hard time today and the 600mg that usually erases my lower back pain is barely taking the edge off. :(

IVF clinic called and I'll be going in for bloodwork tomorrow and for my IVF consult in 2 weeks. I told the nurse we are going to try on our own this month (she asked if I wanted to start IVF this cycle). Still lots of mixed feelings.


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## rickyandlucy

So sorry Ask :hugs: <3


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## OnErth&InHvn

I dont look at a car loan the same as IVF just because with a car loan youre guaranteed a car at the end. I know what youre trying to say though and in that light, no its not a huge chunk. :hugs:

Ask, sorry about AF. I hope shes over quickly and the b/w comes back normal.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Earth. 

**TMI warning!** As suspected I just passed two tissue looking clots...this only seems to happen when I have CPs. It happened in April too when I had an evap looking line on an FRER and then a negative blood test at 15dpo, so now I'm thinking that may have been a CP too. I do usually have small red clots in my period but these are always bigger and mixed with white and pink tissue. Not sure what causes that.


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry AF has started Ask, strange tissue clots too. I've never had those.

Earth i would probably feel the same as you if I already had kids. For me the chance to have a baby is worth the cost of IVF. If at the very least it gives me peace of mind and closure so that I can go on with my life then it will be money well spent.


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## Norelisa

Ask, sorry about AF.. and I think once or twice I had some cloths like that last year, but I never took any tests and just assumed it was my regular period with some stuff in it.. hmm..

Have you guys considered getting prices from other places? Seems pretty expensive for one try.. Wish I could be more of assistance!

I have started looking into tickets going back to Bangkok for a couple of weeks in August, its pretty expensive going during summer holidays here.. sigh.. 

CD10 for me, we'll start the schedule now, though I have been slacking with my vitamins and eating waaay too much sugar.. haha, I have been very kind to my sweet tooth but that is about it..


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## Ask4joy

Nore - the prices seem to be the same at both clinics I've been to. Sigh.

Question for you Nore and any other cat people: our kittens just turned 5 months old and we are scheduling surgery to have them spayed and neutered (our vet wanted to wait until 6 months but said if they were 5 pounds she could do it). The female is just under 5 pounds and the male is almost 7 pounds. Today I saw the boy mounting the girl and his little penis was all the way out! I freaked out and separated them but now I'm worried that she may already be pregnant! I know they can spay even if they are pregnant but obviously we'd rather avoid that! She is not showing signs of being in heat but he is clearly ready! What are the chances that she is pregnant at 5 months?


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Nore - the prices seem to be the same at both clinics I've been to. Sigh.
> 
> Question for you Nore and any other cat people: our kittens just turned 5 months old and we are scheduling surgery to have them spayed and neutered (our vet wanted to wait until 6 months but said if they were 5 pounds she could do it). The female is just under 5 pounds and the male is almost 7 pounds. Today I saw the boy mounting the girl and his little penis was all the way out! I freaked out and separated them but now I'm worried that she may already be pregnant! I know they can spay even if they are pregnant but obviously we'd rather avoid that! She is not showing signs of being in heat but he is clearly ready! What are the chances that she is pregnant at 5 months?

Its not impossible for her to get pregnant. They dont have to go into heat first. 

Normally IF he was actually IN her, you would not be able to break them apart because he has spikes on his penis and it would rip her inside and hurt....


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## Norelisa

There is a chance she could be pregnant. I've heard of cats as young as 4 months getting pregnant. I would take them both in for surgery ASAP.



I asked a friend who runs the shelter I volunteered at, she is a veterinarian nurse.. This was her reply.. :)


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Earth & Nore! We have them scheduled to both be fixed in a week and a half.

Happy Canada day to the Canadians!


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## Norelisa

I booked tickets back to BKK yesterday.. just for 2.5 weeks in july/august, but still.. :) Hubby needs to take 3 weeks holiday beginning of August, but I nearly exploded when he told me he had to ask permission from his brothers to go anywhere (one brother has a farm) - this is EXACTLY why I did not want to come back here, and this is EXACTLY what he promised wouldn't happen! He is supposed to come to BKK on July 30th but now he says he'll only stay as short as possible because maybe his brothers wants him to be around the farm... GRRR!! I will ovulate beginning of August so I was hoping he would at least stay a week! I really really do not appreciate this family dynamic. He also talked about how we would go to Norway in August to repaint our house, but no.. it will depend on the farm now.. I get furious haha:) I really don't know what to do, if this continues I frankly don't know if I want to stay with him ...:shrug::growlmad::nope::shy::grr:


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## Ask4joy

Nore - I don't blame you for feeling that way. I would feel the same. Family is important but your marriage should come first (in my opinion). I'm sure you've explained to your DH how you feel. I hope you can find a compromise that makes you both happy. Definitely sounds like a bigger topic you'll need to discuss in more depth.


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## Ask4joy

I'm really having a hard time and don't know what to do. DH was supposed to have his SA today and surprise, surprise, he couldn't do it. He even "practiced" 4-5 days ago and succeeded. I don't know what to do. If he can't give a sample "under pressure" we will never be able to do IVF. This has happened 4 times now. With his first SA he had to cancel his first 2 appointments. Then last month we had to cancel the IUI. Now today we had to cancel his SA. How bad do you think it would be if we BD and he pulls out at the end? I honestly think that is the only way this will work. He was able to do it once with a collection condom for IUI but then couldn't last month. And even with pulling out I'm not sure because the time-limit seems to make him unable to do it even though we are fine the rest of the time. This whole journey is hard enough and to have to deal with this on top of it is making me depressed. I know this makes him feel horrible but this is the 1 single thing he has to do in this process and he can't.


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## OnErth&InHvn

I would ask your clinic for other options. On FF, one woman gave " kisses" to her DH in the clinic parking lot and they got a sample. I thought that was always funny but it got the job done. ;)


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## mnelson815

Hey Ask,

I just wanted to pop in quick and say... if worst came to absolute worst, and you were worried about IVF, they can do PESE or TESE where they extract the sperm from his testicles using a needle. I believe this needs to be done a bit before IVF, like maybe a month and then they freeze it? But you still have options if you go down that route. They definitely think of everything, you just have to pay a little more.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Nelson - I read that too. Good to know there are options! We got the sample done today but we broke the rules and had sex using preseed and he pulled out (sorry TMI). I guess we will see how the quality is...hopefully it won't make much of a difference! We will try the collection condom again next time (didn't have one this time) for the sample that they will freeze. Hopefully we didn't just blow $200!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Im WTO..... :coffee:

:bfn: OPK from this afternoon.
 



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## Norelisa

I'm on my way back from 24h in Lyon:) 5-6 g bus each way, but boy it was good getting away from monster in law for one night and meeting friends from Bangkok there :)

I suppose I might have ovulated due to the temp spike this morning, but if I manage to get my train back to monster in law not too late tonight I might be able to throw in another bd during the fertile window, haha :)


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## OnErth&InHvn

I was thinking is 100mg doesnt work and 150 doesnt work, I wonder what that actually means if i never respond at all to Clomid? Tube blocked? Bad egg quality? Low FSH? None of which i can do anything about right now but its thoughts on my mind lately. 

I did FE and only Od on 3 of 6 cycles and so far of 3 clo, responded to 0 of 4.


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## BelleNuit

Earth do you have pcos or DOR? Some women just don't respond well to oral meds and need injectables to push the ovaries that much harder


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Earth do you have pcos or DOR? Some women just don't respond well to oral meds and need injectables to push the ovaries that much harder

Nope, neither of those. I don't have insurance so I can't get injects unless I get them online and that's out of my experience. ( wouldn't know how much or when) 

I know my left ovary works but why its following the bum right one, I don't know. :haha:

-----------
:bfn: on OPK today too.
 



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## rickyandlucy

Ask4joy said:


> I'm really having a hard time and don't know what to do. DH was supposed to have his SA today and surprise, surprise, he couldn't do it. He even "practiced" 4-5 days ago and succeeded. I don't know what to do. If he can't give a sample "under pressure" we will never be able to do IVF. This has happened 4 times now. With his first SA he had to cancel his first 2 appointments. Then last month we had to cancel the IUI. Now today we had to cancel his SA. How bad do you think it would be if we BD and he pulls out at the end? I honestly think that is the only way this will work. He was able to do it once with a collection condom for IUI but then couldn't last month. And even with pulling out I'm not sure because the time-limit seems to make him unable to do it even though we are fine the rest of the time. This whole journey is hard enough and to have to deal with this on top of it is making me depressed. I know this makes him feel horrible but this is the 1 single thing he has to do in this process and he can't.

Hey guys, just popping in, went MIA for a while, I was trying to chill while waiting for O day!

Ask, that is a tricky situation. I am worried about that for us too. DH is really uncomfortable with the whole idea of it. Here's what I read:
_
You can collect a semen sample during sex by withdrawing your penis from your partner just before ejaculating (coitus interruptus). You then ejaculate into a clean sample cup.

You can also collect a semen sample during sex by using a condom. If you use a regular condom, you will need to wash it thoroughly before using it to remove any powder or lubricant on it that might kill sperm. You may also be given a special condom that does not contain any substance that kills sperm (spermicide). After you have ejaculated, carefully remove the condom from your penis. Tie a knot in the open end of the condom and place it in a container that can be sealed in case the condom leaks or breaks.
_
Maybe one of these options might work for you? Or some kind of combo of both? Another thing I have read that is interesting is that sperm collected through sex are considered by some to be better quality or something like that. No idea what that means exactly, but I will take any positive notes I can get, lol.

We have an SA coming up for DH. Our reasons are a little different, but anyways DH doesn't want to collect his sample in the typical way either (in his words, we might as well have fun doing it, lol!). So we ordered a "Seminal Fluid Collection Kit" from here: https://www.popepaulvi.com/shop

When it arrived, it is just a "Male Factor Pack" with a sterile cup. I believe if you Google "Male Factor Pack" you can find it for sale other places too. When I explained our situation to the doctor, they said we have two choices. She said very nonchalantly that they have couches in the rooms for this reason (awkward!) or if you live within an hour of the office you can collect at home. We don't live within an hour, but my sister does, and they will be out of town at the end of the month. She offered us the use of her house. Also super awkward, but less awkward than a couch at the doc's office. Lol.

I got a positive OPK yesterday. Didn't tell DH, think it's TMI for him, but I think he suspects, and anyway he isn't complaining, lol. We've been BD'ing every other day since AF ended. He actually has initiated every time, I just didn't stop him, lol. Then after the pos OPK we BD'ed last night, plan to again tonight, again tomorrow, skip a day, then go again one more time. Trying to follow the sperm meets egg plan. Hoping we won't need the SA or RE appt. I should be testing before the SA appt. But at least we now have the appts if we need them. Baby dust to all!!!! <3


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## Ask4joy

Lucy - we get the male factor pack collection condoms for free from my fertility clinic. We used it when we did our IUI. I'll warn you they are not comfortable (according to DH) and have no lube so I recommend using preseed with it. This time for the SA we used the pull out method which isn't really recommended as the sample can be contaminated but we were careful so hopefully it will be a good one! DH just can't do it on his own anymore like when he was younger...I guess at the age of 48 it just doesn't do it for him anymore! I guess I should be happy about that? Lol.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Bfn opk today too. 

I'm not sure if it's worth it to do 150mg at this point.


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## Ask4joy

Sorry Earth, how frustrating. Are you able to try FE again?

100mg clomid is kicking my ass this month. Talk about the clomid crazies...intense mood swings and irritability. Sooo hot at night and tossing and turning all night for the last week. Poor DH (and me)! Glad this will be my last month on it. I hope the injectables for IVF aren't as brutal but I won't get my hopes up...


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## rickyandlucy

Went to the memorial service for a young man I grew up with yesterday. That's a long story in and of itself. Sad occasion as it is. But when I was hugging his mother, she whispered "I've been praying for a beautiful baby for you two". :cry:

Had a dream about being pregnant last night. It was a sort of weird one, lol. But when I told DH, he told me had a dream a little while back that we had a baby girl.

DH's SA is on July 24, and the RE appt is Aug 2. I should have O'ed over the weekend; positive OPK Thu July 6. I am naively hoping that the ever elusive BFP might come just in time to save us from having to do any of that...


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## steph1607

Oh Ask, I too had horrid side effects on the 100mg. I hope they subside soon :hugs:

Fingers are well and truly crossed that you will get your good news before your next appointments Lucy. Hopefully your dreams are good signs that something is going on inside right now!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Steph. Clomid always makes me feel sad but this month it really has made me a maniac. I hate to admit it but I smashed DH's phone! It was old and he was planning to get a new one but I was not in my right mind and now we lost lots of pictures and videos. I feel like a monster. 

DH is still out of work and the financial stress is mounting. I fear that I'm going to have to dig into our IVF fund which I've worked hard to save over the last year. His mother offered to help us with finances when he lost his job and I hope he will take her up on that offer. I get paid through mid-September and am planning to substitute teach in the Fall but our plan was that I won't take a full time position knowing I'll be leaving when we have babies. I'm starting to feel like it's all just a pipe dream but I have to remind myself it's the clomid making me feel so down. I feel so broken.

Lucy - I'm very sorry for your loss. It's so tragic when a young life is lost, whatever the reason. :hugs: I think your baby dream is a good sign! I had one a few months back when I had a CP in March. Our bodies know well before we do! I hope you have your baby in your arms soon!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Sorry Earth, how frustrating. Are you able to try FE again?
> 
> 100mg clomid is kicking my ass this month. Talk about the clomid crazies...intense mood swings and irritability. Sooo hot at night and tossing and turning all night for the last week. Poor DH (and me)! Glad this will be my last month on it. I hope the injectables for IVF aren't as brutal but I won't get my hopes up...

I can. I just have to order it. 

I had a m/c dream last night. Weird. A girl named Dawniella with black straight hair. About 15wk. Weird! !!


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## Ask4joy

Earth - dreams can be so vivid! I hope all of our (happy) baby dreams come true very soon!


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## OnErth&InHvn

did my digi OPK- had to do it 3x because all 3x it kept giving me an error. I gave up after the 3rd. 

IC is still bfn.
 



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## Norelisa

Sorry to hear about your friend, Lucy :/

I'm about a week past ovulation now.. Yesterday I went to see a gynecologist, he prescribed a few tests and depending on those results (amh, fsh ++ ultrasound + sa for hubby) we might be able to start the iui pretty soon! Very excited about that! Currently on my way to get registered, it might take a few months to get my insurance card but at least we are moving forward. 

On the not so bright side, I've just learned that my "dear" in laws have stopped saying I'm the main reason we don't have a baby yet. Now they say "one have to ask oneself, does he really want a baby?!" yay. ..


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## rickyandlucy

Nore, I am sorry about your inlaws. That stinks. I can never understand why people don't realize what a sensitive subject this all is. Literally, _not one day_ goes by that someone doesn't comment on when we are going to have babies. Already happened once today.

We have bd'ed more this month than ever. So hopefully our chances of a BFP are better than ever. We have BD'ed _at least_ every other day for this entire cycle. Going to try to keep up that pattern until the end of the cycle, or at least until I am absolutely certain I have O'ed. Sometimes we bd'ed two days in a row, and on what I hope was O day, twice. DH has always had a high drive, so I actually haven't had to initiate at all, but for me it is often a chore. It has actually been a problem in our relationship at times, and is one of the big reasons I went off BC. This month has been tough, because some nights I really, really just wanted to go to sleep, lol. Fx it pays off!


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## Norelisa

rickyandlucy said:


> Nore, I am sorry about your inlaws. That stinks. I can never understand why people don't realize what a sensitive subject this all is. Literally, _not one day_ goes by that someone doesn't comment on when we are going to have babies. Already happened once today.
> 
> We have bd'ed more this month than ever. So hopefully our chances of a BFP are better than ever. We have BD'ed _at least_ every other day for this entire cycle. Going to try to keep up that pattern until the end of the cycle, or at least until I am absolutely certain I have O'ed. Sometimes we bd'ed two days in a row, and on what I hope was O day, twice. DH has always had a high drive, so I actually haven't had to initiate at all, but for me it is often a chore. It has actually been a problem in our relationship at times, and is one of the big reasons I went off BC. This month has been tough, because some nights I really, really just wanted to go to sleep, lol. Fx it pays off!

Thanks for your support :) I know they have a very stupid "french farmers view" in the family (i.e. mother in law admits to not having raised her kids due to work, and never interacted with the children, which brother in law now starts to realise wasn't a good thing... yay! there is hope! )

So I went with my "dossier" to get health insurance yesterday, and obviously they still found something new to be missing, which requires the help of mother in law, who refuse to help now.. both hubby and I got really frustrated.. Now we probably have to wait for another 4 months before I can get health insurance and can start this process.. (unless I get a job, working on my CV today). She refuse to confirm that I am living at her house! grrrrrr.... :nope::growlmad: just because she doesnt understand how the system works she doesn't want to sign an offical paper coz she is afraid it will be "used against her"... seriously fuming.. Staying in our room today, had some cookies for breakfast.. Have to be home here because waiting for a delivery from iherb, running out of supplements, haha.. :)

Oh, and Lucy, for us too, sometimes it feel like a chore we just have to do.. But hubby seems to be rather ok with it, which I find slightly surprising, before we started trying for a baby we did NOT BD at any time every other day, haha:D Most nights I just want to sleep as I sleep very badly here with mother in law, I wake up at least once or twice every night, especially around 3:30-4 am when the roosters starts yelling... I really consider making coq au vin at those early morning hours...


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## rickyandlucy

Nore, your MIL; that's crazy! How could it be used against her???? Hopefully your hubby can make her understand.

I didn't tell DH when I got the positive OPK last week. He doesn't like to know, takes the fun out of it for him. And most months, we stop BD'ing during the TWW. But I figure we've made it this far. Might as well complete the cycle, lol. Fx!

Anyone else talk to their tummy during the TWW? I'm always like, come on, make a baby already! LOL!


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## BelleNuit

Lucy I did that quite a bit during my IUI cycles. I told my little embryo (who knows if it was even there) that I loved it and wanted it to nestle right in and make itself at home. 

I can tell DH really wants this baby. We were sitting out one afternoon looking at the clouds in the sky and he commented that he kept seeing baby faces wherever he looked in the sky. 

I think we are both feeling frustrated. After 2 failed IUIs and countless (literally lost count) other natural cycles we're at a loss. Got CD 3 testing updated and its all friggen normal. I don't recall if I've updated over here but for the time being we've decided to take a break from it all. I know I'm in my fertile days right now due to cm and we haven't BD once. We might just take this month off altogether and focus on other things for awhile. We're just going to save up for IVF so not really a clomid/femara buddy anymore.


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## Norelisa

Belle, please stay here though`?!! Even when I'm not on clomid I feel welcome in this group:)) 


I know my hubby wants a baby too, its only his family trying to blame me.. First they thought I was the problem, now they mean it must be psychological as we haven't gotten pregnant yet. Hubby talks about having a baby a lot, we talk about how we want to raise kids, he do whatever he can to make sure we are in the same country when I o.. ( 95% success rate on that, haha).. They are just really insensitive ... sigh.. I am looking forward to getting my own place.. And a few kitties.. I will get two sweethearts named Mook and Chok Dee from Paws. (If anyone is curious you can check their Facebook, I think both profiles are there.. :))


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## rickyandlucy

Yes, Belle please don't leave! I am not a clomid buddy anymore either! I just feel like I belong more here than anyone else though. You guys get it. The testing board is not very fun for those of us who've been at it awhile. :cry:


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## BelleNuit

I'll be sticking around :) I agree, the testing boards are pretty painful most of the time. You can't join in on the fun when chances are there is no point in getting excited!

Nore I'm sorry your in laws are so insensitive! Also loving your plan for those kitties :) they sound adorable


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## rickyandlucy

Hey guys, can I get some chart help? I use Ava to chart now, but she says I O'ed on Tuesday 7/11, which doesn't jive with the positive OPK I got on Thursday 7/6. Not sure if it is possible to O that late?

So just in case, I basically pretended that both 7/8 and 7/11 were O days, just to make sure I had my bases covered. But now I just want to make sure I have really O'ed. I put my Ava temps into Fertility Friend with the positive OPK, and this is what the chart looks like. What do you guys think? Have I already O'ed (ie, can I relax now, lol), and which day do you think it really was?
 



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## Norelisa

rickyandlucy said:


> Hey guys, can I get some chart help? I use Ava to chart now, but she says I O'ed on Tuesday 7/11, which doesn't jive with the positive OPK I got on Thursday 7/6. Not sure if it is possible to O that late?
> 
> So just in case, I basically pretended that both 7/8 and 7/11 were O days, just to make sure I had my bases covered. But now I just want to make sure I have really O'ed. I put my Ava temps into Fertility Friend with the positive OPK, and this is what the chart looks like. What do you guys think? Have I already O'ed (ie, can I relax now, lol), and which day do you think it really was?

I would say either 7th or 8th of June.. :) have you tried different modes of FF? (research, opk, advanced ..) 

I'm on CD 10 today but wouldn't be surprised if AF shows earlier than expected.. In the past 9 months or so AF has showed 14 days after ovulation.. Some spotting the last few days, nothing new there.. When I'm back later in August I will search for a job ASAP, if I get a job I will get into the system instantly if I understood correctly.. still annoyed at mother in law though... sigh...

14th of July, celebrating in the middle of nowhere.. haha :)


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## Ask4joy

The TTC road can be a long and arduous one on many fronts! Family and in-laws being part of the equation! My family has learned to pretty much not ask unless I bring it up. They all know how much I want to have children! Freaking sucks that we have to pay out the $#%! 

Nore - those are the situations that my old therapist would tell me to just say "Thanks for your concern" with a big smile. lol. It's really not their business! 

Belle - This is my last cycle on clomid too but now we are all experienced users and can offer sage advice to newcomers. :haha: May their journeys be shorter than ours! 

As for this TTC business...Positive opk over 48 hours ago but no temp spike yet. Hate that! I guess we can squeeze another BD in! We are at my lake house and trying to relax...we have both been pretty freakin stressed between infertility, job loss, and his unstable parasitic ex. Being here definitely helps! Glad my Clomid crazies have died down...that was intense!

We have our IVF consult with the doc this week and will get DH's recent SA results and our blood test results (DH had 2-3 vials taken and I had probably 15 vials of blood taken in the last month)! I got a few of the results back already...not a carrier of fragile x, cystic fibrosis or one other genetic disorder (I forget which). No clotting disorder. Thyroid good, no detected auto-immune issues. Taking 1 baby aspirin per day per my obgyn's recommendation after my first cp and my own research...seems to help some women even if a known clotting disorder is not detected.


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## Ask4joy

Still no temp rise 72 hours after my +opk. So frustrating! Had EWCM 5 days ago and nipples have been sore since 3 days ago and my +opk. I've been inconsistent with taking my temp at the same time ...anytime between 7-9am, whenever I wake up. But it was only 96.9 this morning at 7am and has hovered there for 3 days which is a pre-o temp for me.


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## rickyandlucy

So sorry Ask. I still haven't figured out my OPK situation. Seems like it takes me a while after a pos OPK too. Very frustrating I know. :(

Well, got my early testing out of my system. 9 dpo, BFN, not surprised. It's funny, one early test is all it takes to make me not want to test again for a while, lol. Going to wait until 14 DPO now.

Having some possible symptoms, but with so many tease cycles I don't even think they are worth mentioning. I am really trying not to get my hopes up.


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## Ask4joy

I guess I finally found out the cause of my infertility. I have abnormal chromosomes. 10% of my blood cells tested showed a missing X chromosome (45X instead of 46XX) known as mosaic monosomy x or mosaic Turner's syndrome. My doctor thinks this is the cause of my recurrent early miscarriages. I have no outward symptoms other than infertility. Part of me is relieved to have an answer but the other part is terrified that we will have to undergo multiple IVF cycles just to find one normal embryo. DH has a small chromosomal issue too but she didn't think that was the cause of our difficulties, but after doing my own research it seems that his chromosomal inversion can lead to infertility and repeat pregnancy loss in some people. With our combined abnormalities it's no wonder we can't maintain a pregnancy. We are meeting with a geneticist next before beginning IVF with PGD and going bankrupt.


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## OnErth&InHvn

I FINALLY ovulated on 100mg Clomid~!!! CD26. 

:D


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## rickyandlucy

Ask, I am so glad you have some answers. I am sure it has just created more questions, but at least it is a step in the right direction.

Earth, that's awesome!! Congrats!!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Thanks! I think ill start testing Monday, if i can hold out that long!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Lucy. It's pretty scary thinking there's a chance I may never be able to have my own biological children but my doctor seemed optimistic that we will find a good embryo, it just might take more than one retrieval. I'm going to have to start looking into grants that we can apply for. Most women with Turner syndrome are infertile/sterile and then most of the ones that do have functioning ovaries go through early menopause but that doesn't seem to be the case for me at all. Even some women with a low percentage of abnormal cells like me have worse symptoms so I guess I'm pretty lucky. My egg supply is very good...but given my age and this chromosomal abnormality my miscarriage rate is high. Thankfully IVF and PGD can help with that. I've also read that women with Turner syndrome are inherently in the high risk pregnancy category due to heart complications. I don't have any known heart issues but I will have to have a full work up done. It's all kinda scary but I'm glad we are getting answers...there's a sense of relief in that I guess. How are you doing? Your chart is looking awesome!

Congrats on the O Earth! That's gotta be exciting and a huge relief!


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## rickyandlucy

Earth, I totally get that. I started testing way too early this cycle, lol. Just don't let yourself get too down at any early BFN's. <3

Ask, that does sound scary, I can't imagine the combination of things you must be feeling. But the fact that your doctor is optimistic is a good sign, I would hope that most good doctors would be cautious about giving hope if there was none. And I understand the fear of never having biological children; I have that same fear and I don't even know what our issues are yet.

Still trying to be hopeful. Still worried maybe I O'ed late (like maybe with the second temp rise) and missed it. But trying to keep my head up. If my chart is correct, I am 12 DPO. BFN yesterday, but temp keeps going up. I don't *think* my temp has been this high this late before. Fx! Testing again tomorrow and Sunday until I either get the ever elusive BFP, or AF appears. DH's sperm analysis is Monday, and our appt with the RE is the following week...
:dust:


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## Ask4joy

Lucy - I don't think you Od later. Maybe even 1 day earlier. I think you've got it covered! Did you have spotting at 8-9dpo? That would be wonderful if you get your bfp just before more testing! FX!

Meant to mention that DH's sperm analysis was normal despite our collection method (pull out). His morphology was slightly below ideal as it was in his first SA as well but the doctor said it's not an issue since his count and motility is good.


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## rickyandlucy

I did have spotting, but (TMI alert) I can't help but wonder if it could have been caused by bd'ing and not enough (*ahem*) lubrication, lol. I do normally spot right before AF, but it is normally brown, and this was different. Sort of pink mixed with CM? Hard to describe. Haven't had any of the usual brown spotting yet. According to Fert Friend, AF is due tomorrow, but it could also be Saturday. My cycles are so whacky, so I can't help myself and input my data in other places too, and one of them said I could have O'ed as late as CD 22. I pray that is not the case. I think you are right, but I can't help but worry.

So I have had some symptoms, but I have been explaining them away to try to keep from getting my hopes up too much. But it's so hard not to symptom spot. DH keeps telling me I put too much pressure on myself, and I finally told him, it's impossible not to, might as well embrace it, lol. I felt somewhat similar to AF cramping (not as intense) Saturday-Monday of last weekend, but I would have thought I would have gotten a positive yesterday if that was implantation. I have been feeling something, hard to describe the feeling, on my lower right side, just inside my hip since then, but it comes and goes. Boobs have been feeling different the last couple days, but I can't pin it down, could be all in my head. Had a surprising amount of CM yest. Have been tired and had headaches, but that could also be because I have cut down on caffeine a bit. Occasional dizziness. A few times when I googled CM this week, some of the pictures made me nauseous, and driving in the car yesterday I felt a little carsick, which never happens when I am the one driving. Of course, all of this could be a coincidence, certainly wouldn't be the first cycle.

When I got that evap at 9 DPO, I kept googling "evap to BFP" and apparently it's a thing for some people, but it hasn't happened for me yet, lol. Yesterday's test, no evap, no BFP. Praying my BFP comes before Monday. But if it doesn't, glad to know "alternative collection methods" don't seem to cause any issues :)

Thank you as always for the support ladies!


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## Ask4joy

Lucy - I have high hopes for you! Those are similar symptoms to what I experienced before my bfps. AF like cramping, dizziness, headaches. The spotting sounds like it could be implantation spotting. I know these last few days are the hardest part!


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## rickyandlucy

It would be so like me to have a super late BFP, lol. Literally praying...


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## Ask4joy

Have you tested with a FRER?


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## rickyandlucy

Just Wondfo's so far. I have a Clear Blue Digital, but I want to save it. If I ever get a positive on something else, then use the digi to show DH. Is it worth going to get some FRER's? I actually tried to get those when I bought the digi, but they were out of stock so I figured the digi was the next best thing. But then AF came that night and saved me the trouble.

Makes me tear up to think about it. I want to show that digi to DH so badly. Feel like he won't believe it if it ever finally happens, lol.


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## Ask4joy

I never got a positive on a digi because they are less sensitive and my hcg never got high enough. I had positives on FRERs and Walmart cheapies. Now I only use FRER to confirm since I'm on progesterone and need to know for sure one way or another before stopping. I think the Walmart tests (First Signal) are just as sensitive but can take 10 minutes to show a faint line. Also, the First Response tests seem to be cheapest at Walmart compared to other locations.


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## rickyandlucy

So I was just talking with my mom about our upcoming doc's appts. She was telling me that her first clues when she was pregnant with me was that her boobs felt funny and she was exhausted. I didn't mention it because I don't want to get her excited, but I am feeling both of those things!

I am exhausted, have been all week, but have been chalking it up to reduced caffeine intake. And my boobs feel funny. I can't describe it. They don't hurt. But they feel weird. And possibly a little bigger.

This would be just too good to be true I swear...<3


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## Ask4joy

Really hoping this is it for you Lucy!!!


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## rickyandlucy

It's getting harder and harder not to get my hopes up. I am so afraid of a giant let down. Ugh.

DH told me yest I put too much pressure on myself, and I just told him, "It's impossible not to, I might as well embrace it", LOL.


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## Ask4joy

I know, it's so hard! Especially when you have symptoms. I basically convince myself I'm not pregnant and then if I am I am pleasantly surprised! Well, actually after 3 CPs I think I'll be terrified! And you're right, we are going to think about it no matter what!


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## steph1607

Ask, I'm really sorry to hear about your test results. It must be so hard to take in. But you do now have an answer for the CPs and I'm am so hopeful that the doctors will be able to do their thing and you will get your baby <3

Fingers crossed for you Lucy!!!

And congratulations on the O Earth!


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## rickyandlucy

Huge temp drop this morning. Can't say that I'm surprised. :cry:


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## Fluffycookie

Hello everyone! I've been chatting away with steph in her journal for a while now and she recommended this thread to me, so I thought I would say hi :)

Hubby and I are 28 and have been TTC for a while, but right as I came off the pill I knew something was off because my cycles were very long (38-40 days) and I had one 55 and one 83 day long cycle. My gynecologist diagnosed me with PCOS and referred me to a fertility clinic where we had our first appointment at the end of June (so this is all still fairly new to me and I'm still adjusting to it). I have also been tested by a diabetologist and my insulin and HOMA index are both fine, so I will not be given metformin.

Yesterday, we found out that in addition to my lean PCOS, hubby might also have low sperm motility (so slow swimmers), but we need to wait for a second SA in 8 weeks to confirm this. In the meantime, we have decided to go ahead with treatment, so I am starting my first cycle of 50mg clomid this cycle (tomorrow, Saturday, on CD 5) and will be taking it CD5-9. If I ovulate, we will then do an IUI to give the "lazy boys" the best chance.

Does anyone here have any tips or insights on IUIs? I have been trying to learn more about them, but I feel fairly overwhelmed with all the news atm.

It will take me a bit to catch up with everyone's stories, so please bear with me!

@Lucy
Sorry about your temperature drop, I know what it's like when you hold out hope and then your temperature drops after all a few days later :(


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## rickyandlucy

Welcome fluffy! I can't help you with IUI, but it looks like we are headed that way too so I guess I will be joining you soon.

So I am sure I am grasping at straws, but bear with me here. I can't help but wonder if this morning's temp could have been an implantation dip. Of course this would mean that all of my "symptoms" up until now have been all in my head, but that doesn't surprise me, lol. But this would also explain why I am still getting BFN's. Obviously only time will tell, but my logic is this. _If_ this morning's dip was because of implantation, that would suggest implantation happened yesterday or earlier. Yesterday was 12 DPO, which is not common, but not impossible from what I can tell. And I did have some pink tinged CM this morning as well.

Also, I have been questioning my O date this whole time. Here's why: I have been using the Ava tracking bracelet for about 7 months now and have been seriously doubting its accuracy, because its prediction never seems to match BBT or OPK's. But maybe it's been right under my nose this whole time. So while Fertility Friend says I o'ed June 8, Ava says it was June 11. Which doesn't jive with my pos OPK June 6, but as many have said, a pos OPK doesn't mean that ovulation will happen, and there have been other months where I found myself googling "can ovulation happen 5 days after pos OPK". Maybe my body has an early surge and late O? Ava doesn't factor in OPK's, but it does measure skin temperature and resting pulse rate. With Ava's O date, that would make yesterday 9 DPO, which is the most common day for implantation. And here's an interesting tidbit from Ava's blog:

_Contrary to popular belief, BBT doesnt always rise immediately after you ovulate. According to a study that compared BBT readings with ultrasoundthe gold standard in confirming ovulationonly 11 percent of women have a BBT rise within one day of ovulation. For many of the women in the study, BBT did not rise until more than two days after ovulation.

Practically, this means that 89 percent of women using BBT are identifying the wrong ovulation day. If youre using BBT to time intercourse, you may over- or undershooting your fertile window by several days and reducing your chances of conceiving._

We often stop BD'ing when we think the O is over, but this month I decided to pretend like the 8th _and_ the 11th were both O dates. Maybe we've just been missing it all these months? And although Ava's reading this morning also showed the drop in temp, my pulse rate is still up, which is a good sign. It normally falls before AF.

So anyway, there's my logic. Trying to justify it all per usual, lol. I am sure the next morning or two will make it all crystal clear. Unless AF makes her usual appearance before then. Thank you for humoring my crazy obsessiveness for a few ladies. :)


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## Fluffycookie

Thank you Lucy :) I looked at your chart, and I think it *might* be possible that you only ovulated on CD 19 or even CD 22, so who knows! I've read similar things about identifying the day of ovulation, so we always BD about 4-5 days longer just in case ^^"


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## rickyandlucy

Thank you for validating my obsession, lol! And I am worried about CD 22 too. But I don't think it was CD 22 because of CM. Wish I had started paying attention to that sooner. And I really hope that wasn't it, bc if it is we didn't bd long enough, lol.

It's so hard to find a balance between being hopeful and being realistic, lol.


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## Fluffycookie

Did you get egg white, stretchy CM on day 19? If so, then that would be a strong sign of ovulation! I've tried to interpret my own CM but no use with annovulatory cycles *sigh* always the same. If it was CD 19, your timing would have been great :)

I find that honestly, it is not possible to have the right balance between realistic and optimistic. I like to realistically know what our chances are, like right now my doctor said about 10-20% in this first clomid cycle is what he estimates. I try and keep that in mind, but I get my hopes up either way so I try to enjoy the hopefullness - the bad news will come soon enough, no point being sad about it already!


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## rickyandlucy

That's the problem, I wasn't paying attention to my CM until CD 21. Now I know better, lol. I am cramping today. It feels similar to AF, but not quite, but that could be all in my head. I don't know what to think. Feel like it could go either way. Though the odds are definitely in AF's favor. :/

And true that. Enjoy the hope while it lasts I guess, lol!


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## rickyandlucy

Feeling more and more like AF. :cry:


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## Fluffycookie

:hugs: I'm sorry Lucy! I haven't seen a link for your journal, can you catch me up on what treatment you are currently undergoing?


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## rickyandlucy

I haven't been keeping a journal, and technically I am not under any treatment at the moment. Here's a brief summary:

-I went off BC in July 2015. We were basically NTNP for about a year. I was charting, and had extremely irregular cycles (26-48 days).
-We started TTC in June 2016. Go figure, right off the bat I had a 3 month long anovulatory cycle. Doc put me on progesterone to bring on AF. Did a bunch of blood tests and an ultrasound before prescribing clomid. Did 5 rounds of it. Long story short, nothing happened. Went back to the doc, she basically said there was nothing more she could do, and referred us to the RE. Who unfortunately had like a 2 month wait for an appt.

So now we've just been waiting for our appt with the RE and praying for a miracle in the meantime. DH goes for a SA on Monday, and then the following Wednesday we meet with the RE. Not sure what direction they will take us.

Personally, I have long suspected PCOS, but I don't have a lot of the usual indicators. So it will be interesting to see what the RE finds.


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## Fluffycookie

thank you for that summary :) I don't have *any* of the PCOS signs either other than long cycles - not overweight, no extra hair, hourglass figure. My blood test and my ultrasound came back as "typical lean PCOS" though. Do you know your blood results? If you have elevated testosterone, that would fit the PCOS diagnosis. It can present with or without ovarian cysts.

If you're seeing your RE on Wednesday, then you should have some answers soon! :)

When I do ovulate (or at least when I think I do...) my cycles are 38-40 days, so pretty regular, but the annovulatory ones are much longer. Similar to you, once we started TTC properly, I had a three month cycle which the doctor finally broke off with progesterone. Frustrating when that happens right when you need it least, isn't it?


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## rickyandlucy

Ditto to everything you said. Not overweight, no serious acne, no dark facial hair. I don't know if they tested my testosterone though. Is there another technical term for that perhaps? If not, then I am guessing they didn't test me. There was some initial concern about prolactin, but when they retested it was normal. My doc didn't mention anything about the ultrasound either. She commented that I shouldn't be alarmed that it looked "like swiss cheese"; she seemed to think that is normal. But then again, I haven't always been thrilled with her. I remember when she tried to talk me out of going off of birth control.

We see the RE Wed August 2, so we have to wait a little bit longer. And I know a lot of people have cramps before their BFP, but these are pretty strong right now, don't think this is it. :cry:


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## Fluffycookie

a similar thing to test for is androgens, do you remember if those were elevated? The "swiss cheese" picture is what my fertility specialist described as "classic PCOS", so I'm afraid that does sound rather like it in combination with the long cycles. My clinic says they see tons of women with PCOS though and it's one of the easier fertiltiy issues to treat (if that is the only issues), so it's far from the worst diagnosis :)

I'm sorry if this is not your cycle. However, once you do get to your RE, you will know that you get the best possible care both for TTC and for early pregnancy, both of which are very important on your journey to motherhood. Maybe try and distract yourself from looking for AF signs a bit by watching a good movie or something? Sometimes distraction is the only thing that helps me cope with TTC!


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## rickyandlucy

Yeah I don't think she tested me for that. Not surprised. Felt like she was just going through the motions. And in a weird way I am kind of relieved to hear that the ultrasound sounds like PCOS. That's what I thought too. I've been kind of annoyed with my doc for awhile, but I don't really have other options where I live.

And yup, that sounds like a plan. Go curl up with DH and watch a movie. I think we even have popcorn at home, lol.


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## Ask4joy

Welcome fluffy! With PCOS your chances are good of conceiving within 3 cycles if you ovulate on clomid. I've seen many ladies come and go on this thread who conceived in their first few months on clomid. Hopefully you are one of them!

Lucy - I'm sorry you are experiencing the anxiety of limbo. It sucks! Have you tried a FRER yet? They are very sensitive and were giving me faint lines when my blood hcg was only 6! 

I hate symptom spotting but I had AF like cramps and back pain all afternoon. According to FF I'm only 4dpo but I think I may have had a delayed temp rise and may be 6-7dpo. It's probably just the progesterone giving me the side effects. Anyway, even if I do get pregnant again I have over a 50% chance of miscarrying. :cry:


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## OnErth&InHvn

8dpo... my "symptoms" have disappeared PLUS low post O temps makes me believe 1) 1x a day on Progesterone isnt enough 2) Im not pregnant or 3) I have no idea. :wacko:

Welcome Fluffy!!


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## Fluffycookie

Thank you Ask and Earth for the welcome! :)

@Lucy
I'm sure the RE will get all the right blood tests sorted out, but do send me a message any time if you have any questions about PCOS or your blood results, maybe I can help! Popcorn and movie with hubby sounds like a much better plan than worrying about AF btw :)

@Ask
I would love to be one of the within-3-cycles ladies <3 However, combined with the sperm motility issue, our doctor has been gently prepping us for the idea that we might well need IVF/ICSI I think. He said our chances right now could be 10-20% each cycle for the first three (after that it drops which is why they then advise IVF), but if hubby's second SA comes back the same or lower, it's more like 5-10% in which case we would not do another IUI.

I've had a look at your journal and I can't imagine how difficult things must have been for you! :hugs: I really hope that now you know what is causing the problem, things will be sorted out for you!

@Earth
Not a lot of experience here, but I was given progesterone last cycle (to finish the cycle) and I felt all sorts of strange "symptoms" even though I knew for sure I wasn't pregnant. So I think progesterone makes symptom spotting pretty impossible... you just need patience I guess (and if you find some, do let me know where because I could use a good load of it myself, haha!)


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## rickyandlucy

I hate how every month I just can't help but get my hopes up, and then every month I end up feeling like a fool.

AF is here in full force this morning. Now I wish our RE appt was sooner. I am so tired of wasting cycles. I will be on CD 12 on the day of our RE appt. I intend to ask for something other than clomid, because I figure if I wasn't pregnant after 5 rounds of it, we might as well start somewhere else.

DH is still sleeping right now. Once I knew AF was here I couldn't sleep anymore.


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## steph1607

Argh, so sorry Lucy. Don't beat yourself up about getting your hopes up, we all do it and we all try and convince ourselves that every symptom could be a pregnancy symptom. I definitely think it sounds as if you could have PCOS- neither Fluffy or I have any of the 'classic' symptoms, yet my AMH result is the second highest my fertility clinic has ever seen and that together with ultrasounds and amennorhea means I am veeeeery polycystic. 

I would hope the RE wouldn't suggest another round of Clomid. From what I've seen, around 5 or 6 cycles is quite standard- I was stopped after 2 though. It could be worth asking about injectables which have been suggested to Fluffy and I too. 

I know waiting for these appointments just feels like forever sometimes. :hugs:


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## rickyandlucy

Thank you ladies. I really don't know what I would do without the support of these kinds of groups. There is literally no one in my life that I can relate to. My mom never had any trouble getting pregnant, my sister never had any trouble, and my best friend is one of those annoying people who has gotten pregnant on the first shot TWICE now.

And apparently my younger brother and his wife are planning to start trying in September. I really, really hope we can get pregnant first. I really don't care if we are pregnant at the same time; I just need to know that I am pregnant before I find out about them, so that I can be nothing but happy for them and not jealous.

Is there anything I can do to increase my chances while waiting for the RE to give us a game plan? I looked into Vitex, but there seemed to be some caution towards PCOS conditions with high LH. I have never really had a super weak OPK, so I can't help but wonder if that might be me.


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## Fluffycookie

aww Lucy, I feel exactly the same, without the support of the other women on here and people like steph (I must have chewed off both her ears by now, haha), things would be so much harder for me too! My next door neighbour has had two kids 14 months apart, it feels like a slap in the face sometimes but remember their story has nothing to do with yours. Everyone faces different challenges: maybe their marriage is rocky, maybe they have other health issues, maybe they are going through financial problems, who knows!

I tend to set deadlines for myself too, like "I want to be pregnant by...". I would love to be pregnant by early September (our one year anniversary), if not that then Christmas. I try really hard to let go of those arbitrary deadlines, but it's not that easy, is it? :hugs:


I'm afraid I don't know anything about Vitex, but from what I have learned about PCOS so far, the one thing that seems to make a difference for many women is a change in diet. This is because many women with PCOS, even lean ones, are insuline resistant and insuline spikes can mess up your hormonal balance and thus cause more cysts. My doctor confirmed that diet can have a big impact, but only if you are indeed insuline resistant. Meanwhile, it doesn't hurt to eat an insuline-resistance-diet, it's very healthy anyway! What you should do is try to eat every 3-4 hours or so and make sure you stick to foods with a low glycemic index to avoid insuline spikes. Hope this helps a bit!


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## rickyandlucy

Hey ladies, DH's SA is tomorrow. We have received conflicting info on how long to abstain. Thoughts?


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## Fluffycookie

Our clinic gave us something in writing, I just pulled it out: It says no ejaculation for 2-5 days prior. They also told us that smoking or drinking heavily would affect sperm quality, as would very hot showers or hot baths!

Fingers crossed everything comes back fine with the SA :)


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## rickyandlucy

Think 2 days is enough? Otherwise we would have to move his appt. Theoretically it would be a good test right, since general advice is to BD every other day?


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## steph1607

Our paperwork says 3-5 days, but you're right, they say to BD every other day so I think two days would be a good indicator. Best of luck Lucy &#128522;


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## rickyandlucy

Well fx 2 days is enough. I really don't think DH is the problem anyways.

Hey ladies, what should I expect from our first RE appt? I am ready to hit the ground running, lol. Is it just going to be a talking type appt, or will they actually run some tests, take some blood, etc?

Two things I am worried about; one, that they will drag their feet getting started. I don't want to waste anymore cycles than I have to. I imagine he is going to recommend IUI, and if that is the case, I would want to start in September; is that realistic?

Second is how often I am going to have to go. The RE is like 2 hours from my house. I know to be monitored you have to go in for blood; think they would let me get the blood drawn somewhere more local?

I also ordered FertilAid and Ovaboost, and have been researching lifestyle changes to help with PCOS. I really do suspect that is what the doc is going to find.


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## steph1607

Hey Lucy, not sure how reliable my experiences are as I'm in a different country, but it might help!

When I was under the NHS clinic at my first appointment was talking and an transvaginal ultrasound, blood tests were then done at my local hospital along with an HSG. The tests took place over a couple of months. 

Now I'm under a private clinic it's a little different. They do their own blood tests in their labs so I was able to get all that done on the same day as my appointment which is really handy. I think if you have monitored cycles, they will likely be doing ultrasounds so you could expect to go maybe 1-3 times during a cycle. 

I know at my clinic patients can start monitored cycles pretty much as soon as they want, so September seems feasible to me, but again it could be different where you are.

Go armed with lots of research and lots of questions!

Hope DH's SA goes well &#128522;


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## Fluffycookie

So at our first appointment, they took blood samples from both of us to test for all sorts of STDs and hormone levels. I also got a sonogram. We both had to fill out a medical questionnaire, family history, any illnesses, treatments already tried and such.

Otherwise we just came with lots of questions written down. It's so easy to forget things in the heat of the moment! I asked how often I would have to go in as well, and I was told probably once a week on average, so not too bad. I would think starting in September is realistic, but it really depends on how fast your healthcare system is (I'm in Germany where things tend to be relatively fast).

I would also suggest reading up a bit on the different hormones which play a role in fertility so that you can follow any explanations from the doctor more easily. Certainly helped me in our first talk. Good luck!

AFM:
On CD7 today, third clomid tablet of 50mg. Only two days to go now and so far I've been feeling a little more moody perhaps, but well within the manageable range. Hoping it will stay that way! I'm prepared that 50mg might not be enough to make me ovulate, but who knows!


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## OnErth&InHvn

I've been poas but it's all shadows. 11dpo tomorrow.


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## Ask4joy

Lucy - I've had 2 "first" appointments with 2 different REs as I feel my first RE was not aggressive enough. I'm assuming you've already had your day 3 ovarian reserve / hormone levels checked? If not they will want to do that (estradiol, AMH, fsh, lh, etc). Otherwise it will most likely be an "intake" appointment - getting your full history. They may do a transvaginal ultrasound or may schedule that for a different date. They may also recommend an HSG to make sure your tubes are patent (open / working correctly). I would suggest doing the HSG before starting IUI and most REs will require it.

Whenever I see my RE I write down a list of questions and topics I want to discuss or else I'll forget! 

Good luck!


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## Norelisa

Hello, sorry, I've been "away".. currently back in Bangkok.. :) I hope that I won't ovulate before Sunday night, as thats when hubby is arriving... I've spent my days with friends and in the shelter with my kitties, boy I missed them all! I have to find a job when I get back so soon I will have to brush up my CV and probably work on a French version.. If I find a job I will instantly join the health system.. I will aim to start in September, as I would like to stop by Norway (home for me) and Budapest for a wedding in August.. 

I have been drinking a little bit the past few nights with different friends, I almost never drink, and since its early in the cycle I have just let go a bit,haha :)


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## rickyandlucy

SA done. Now we wait for the results. I doubt it was a perfect sample; we didn't abstain for quite as long as we prob should have, and the sample was obtained somewhat unconventionally. Ask, we tried the collection condom; you were right, DH said it was extremely uncomfortable and gave up on it. But I really don't think he is the problem, so it probably won't matter.

So all that's left is our RE appt next week. I now regret waiting this long to go. I was naively hoping it would become irrelevant. And now I just want to tell the doc to be aggressive about it, lol. Personally, I would like to go straight to a medicated IUI cycle. Or at the very least the medication. I am starting to doubt whether or not I was even ovulating without the clomid.

In the meantime, since it will be at least one cycle before we can do that, I have decided to live as though I have already been diagnosed with PCOS. In addition to the supplements I ordered, I am also planning to change my diet, cut down on carbs, dairy, etc, and be a little more intentional about exercise. I definitely don't need to lose weight, I think I just need to change what I eat. Will be very interesting to see if that helps. But first we need to use up all the food in the house that doesn't fit the new rules, lol.


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## Ask4joy

Ladies, I'm struggling and need somewhere to vent! I don't like sharing marital problems with close friends and family so I guess this is a better place that anywhere. DH lost his job 3.5 months ago. A company is in the process of making him an offer this week but the stress we have endured the last few months is enough to tear our marriage apart. DH has become an uptight, irritable, negative a-hole. I understand it's a result of the situation but I feel like I can't take it anymore. Lately I feel like we truly hate each other. I wake up hating him and go to bed hating him. This will sound selfish but I feel like he has ruined my summer. This time was supposed to be a time to relax and recoup and GET PREGNANT. He is too stressed and irritable to care at all about my well being. Our relationship has become a constant power struggle and shouting match. He won't compromise anymore. I feel like running away. I feel like the man I married is nowhere to be found. Honestly, he was the least sympathetic of anyone after my Turner Syndrome diagnosis last week. I'm at the end of my rope. Please tell me it will get better! In the past when we would argue we would make up and all was well again but lately it seems we aren't getting over it and are both developing major resentments.


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## rickyandlucy

Hi Ask, that's a tough situation. You are doing the right thing though; sometimes telling friends or family can backfire if word gets back to your DH.

If you aren't able to calmly discuss your feelings with each other, would your hubby be open to counseling? You are dealing with two big things, either of which on their own would put a lot of strain on a marriage, but put them together and you are in a truly tough situation. It sounds to me like you have tried to be sympathetic, but your DH is so focused on his unhappiness that he can't see yours. Sometimes an unbiased third party can help put things in a different perspective.

In the meantime I will pray for your DH to get that job offer, hopefully that will take some of the pressure off ASAP! <3


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Lucy. I definitely think we need counseling to help us through this. Add to those stressors his ex wife who he is obligated to pay alimony and child support to regardless of whether or not he is employed (the alimony was calculated from his previous salary and can't be changed - he has 3 more years to go), and terminal illness in my family (my 35 year old sister in law has stage 4 lung cancer and stopped responding to chemo a few months ago and is now on some experimental therapies). I think we have the top life stressors covered: job loss, financial instability, divorce, terminal illness, infertility. We need a break!


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## Fluffycookie

@Lucy
I've been in the same place. Waiting and putting it off because you hope you won't need it later because you will get pregnant in the meantime and then finally accepting it and making the appointment and suddenly things can't move fast enough!

@Ask
:hugs: that sounds really, really tough. I'm sorry you have to go through much and all at the same time, yikes! This is a hugely personal decision, so I find it hard to give any advice. All I can say is what I think would do in your position - but I'm not in your position so really, if it doesn't sound sensible to you, pay no heed! To me it sounds like you are in a crisis (or several at once) life wise. In a crisis, you should be careful making big changes because you might be making poor decisions since you are stressed and run down. So I would hold off any big talks or changes in the relationship for now and try and get support elsewhere. Therapist, friends, other family. Once your hubby has found a new job, then you can talk things out. It sucks that he isn't supporting you in this difficult time and that might well be something you can't forgive or get over (or not without couple therapy?), but I would make that decision when you feel like you're in a calm head.

Like I said, that's what I think *not being in your shoes*. I struggle to imagine how you're coping right now with all of that on your plate! Vent away, we're here to listen!


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## Fluffycookie

I'm not sure I explained it all that well, so I wanted to add: sometimes both partners are just fighting for survival and barely make it through each day and sadly, there is nothing left with which to support one another. If that's what your situation is right now, try to get through it and get support from other sources to make it through until you can both breathe again and find each other again.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Fluffy. Yeah...I kinda feel like I need to distance myself from DH a little right now and just focus on other things. It just makes me sad because we are usually madly in love. And he really won't take any ownership for our current struggles. He blames me 100% because I'm reactive. We are both very stubborn but I'm able to admit my faults. He is always a victim. It's very frustrating. I think I just have to accept that he can't see himself right now and hope that things get better when he starts working again. He told me this morning "I don't think we should do
IVF. I think we should keep trying naturally." What?!? Obviously he is just trying to push my buttons and it's working. I need the serenity prayer!

Nore - welcome back! Glad to hear you've let yourself relax a bit! Good luck with the job hunt! Keep us posted!


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## rickyandlucy

I think you have the right idea, give him some space. See if starting the new job helps things, which I suspect it will. Maybe it won't fix everything, but I am sure it will help. And maybe he said that about IVF because he is sensitive about having been out of work and is having sticker shock re the cost of IVF? I know my DH had major sticker shock when we were discussing IVF and adoption.

I know it's not fair, but try to be the bigger person here at least until it becomes clear if things are getting better, or if you get to the point where you think you may need counseling. <3 :hugs:


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## Ask4joy

Thanks girls! I'm starting to feel a little better...maybe bc DH is out of the house for a bit...lol jk...sorta. ;) Thanks for being awesome cyber friends! :)


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## Norelisa

Ask, this would be a very, very difficult situation for ANY couple. And I agree re:IVF, I don't think he meant it in a bad way, but as others mentioned, its expensive, and right now he might be blocked and not seeing any bright financial future.. He might even suffer from depression? I know my hubby would not agree to counselling easily, but I guess from what you have told us: things might change again for the better once he is back working again. Would it be possible for you to go somewhere else from time to time? Just to get some air? I know thats what I did - I could not bear the situation living with my monster in law, but I know it will get better once we find our own place - and if the situation does NOT get better before Christmas, well... we would either have to do counselling (as mentioned, hubby will probably be against) or I will have to make a super difficult decision if I want to leave him..

Don't make any hasty decisions now that the situation is this chaotic - if it doesn't get better when things calm down (after starting new job AND after he has found his place in this new job) - then you can start thinking it over again :) *hugs*


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## rickyandlucy

Yes Ask, Nore is right, what you are going through would be trying on any couple. What you are going through I think is completely normal given the situation.

Nore, how are things going with you? Are things getting any better?


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## Fluffycookie

@Ask
thank you :hugs: Things will get better! Maybe he is just saying a lot of those things now because of the stress and you can have a very different conversation when things have calmed down. Either way, focus on yourself and look after yourself - if you need space, get yourself some space.

I've taken my last 50mg clomid tablet today (CD 9), now waiting and hoping for ovulation... did you ladies have any different signs of ovulation with clomid than without? Do you still get ewcm or does it interfere with that? I heard temping can be unreliable and we're travelling this weekend anyway, so I'm not doing that for now, but want to start on Monday in case the ultrasound shows I haven't ovulated yet. Any tips of what to look out for would be most welcome!


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## rickyandlucy

Hey Fluffy, one thing I will tell you is that if you take OPK's, you need to wait 2-3 days after your last clomid to start taking them. Clomid can cause false positives.

I think my signs and cm were the same on clomid, but I will say that some of my signs were even stronger than they were without the clomid. So be on the lookout!


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## Ask4joy

I second Lucy on the opks. Even 4-5 days after my last clomid my opks are almost positive then fade out for a couple days before going definitely positive. I have always been able to detect O with temping. Temps are high on clomid but drop off after I stop taking them. Ovulation also tends to be more painful for me.


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## BelleNuit

Hey ladies, I know I've been MIA for awhile. I've been taking a bit of a mental health break from ttc and was scaling back on using this site for awhile. Now I'm back and feeling better about things. 

As of now it's CD 26 and no sign of AF yet. My cycles are anywhere from 26-28 days long, so I should know more in the next couple days. If AF is coming I should be spotting later this afternoon or tomorrow. Of course I didn't track anything this cycle and we were only ntnp so I'm not hoping for much lol. I knew when I was fertile though because of all the ewcm and we did BD at least once (maybe twice) on a fertile day. 

We went back and forth on it, but ultimately have decided that we do want to proceed with the 3rd (and last) IUI for August. Keeping in line with keeping things as stress free as possible we will be doing an unmonitored IUI with femara. Unmonitored because I reliably get positive OPKs and the last 2 IUIs were timed off of my OPKs anyway. We'll save $300 on unnecessary monitoring costs this way. 

Otherwise we have created ourselves a budget and have moved quickly on our debt reduction plan this past month. I'm really pleased that we stuck to our budget! Our plan is to save up for a round of IVF. Ideally I'd like to do IVF in April as that will give us a few extra months to save (won't have to ask family for help!!) and we can really focus in on clean living after the new year as well. 

I just feel so much better and more stress free simply having a plan in place. 

Ask it sounds to me like a little bit of time away from DH is doing you wonders. I think you'll both need some time to come to grips with this news. It must feel so crazy to finally have an answer! Maybe your DH is freaking out about the idea of multiple IVF cycles. I wonder if it might be a good idea (when you are both in a better place emotionally) to talk about when your stopping point would be (i.e. after how many cycles). He might feel better knowing the plan isn't to blow indefinite amount of funds. Of course there is a very good chance that IVF will work quickly! And you never know, you might get lucky naturally, just takes one good egg and sperm.


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## steph1607

Hey Belle, I'm really glad to hear that you're feeling more positive about everything (I do stalk your journal too :haha:). I think it sounds as though you have a really good, realistic plan in place. 

Ask, I'm sorry to hear that you and hubby are having a difficult time. I think we all know how this whole TTC could sometimes have the potential to drive couples apart, it really is such a roller coaster. I really hope that you are both able to get through this down period and come out the other side stronger than ever. We are always hear when you need to vent. :hugs:


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## rickyandlucy

Hey Belle, good to see you back! I think it is good to give the IUI another go. I read that 3-4 cycles is generally the magic number if IUI is going to work.

Ladies, does anyone know anything about interpreting the andrology results? They gave us the results but apparently they leave the interpretation to the RE. Looks like things are pretty normal to me, but I am unsure of two areas:

Forward Progression:
0% Rapid Progression
70% Moderate Progression
20% Sluggish Progression
10% Non-Progressive

Morphology: 3L% Normal Forms

I think the forward progression is ok? The morphology seems borderline. They said 4 or more is considered normal. He only abstained for two days; I am guessing the numbers would have been better if he had abstained longer?

Still thinking I am the problem :/


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## BelleNuit

I dunno too much about interpretation. Sounds like there are moving pretty decently (which is great!). On all the SAs my DH has had he had 70-80% rapid progression, but I really don't know what "normal" would be considered. The lower morphology may not be much of an issue if there is a high count along with it. There is a lot of conflicting opinions out there right now about morphology and how much of an impact it has. That said, I think you guys will end up being an excellent candidate for IUI! They'll get the swimmers that much closer to where they need to be and they'll keep you Oing while they're at it :) 

Well CD 26 is coming to an end and still no spotting. If we are pregnant we'll find out on the day of our 10 year anniversary. I'm trying not to think about it too much because that would just be so beyond perfect. My heart would break. I think my heart will break either way though so... lol. What will be will be, and we have a plan moving forward either way.


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## rickyandlucy

Oh Belle, that would be amazing. I will keep you guys in my prayers. &#10084;&#65039; And happy anniversary!!!!


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## BelleNuit

Thank you Lucy! I honestly feel so nervous. I'm incredibly anxious. Its CD 27 (albeit just the morning) and no spotting yet. It is possible I didn't O until CD 15, which has happened twice out of 23 cycles. So it is possible that I'm only 12 dpo today in which case I wouldn't see tan cm until this afternoon. 

This is my 24th cycle (25 if I count the one I didn't ovulate). I feel crazy even thinking that it might have happened. 

I have to get through this day somehow. Tomorrow I will test. After so many cycles my test anxiety is incredibly high. I will friggen lose it if its a BFN and I'm still not spotting


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## rickyandlucy

We will be here for you either way <3


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## BelleNuit

Thank you Lucy!

CD 27 came and went with no spotting which is something that has never happened to me before. My CP is very much closed. I guess I'll see what tomorrow brings. Will be testing in the AM. I'm so scared.


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## Fluffycookie

thank you for the tip with the opks! I've never used those, but it's good to know in case I do in the future :)

@Belle
Finger's crossed for you! and happy anniversary :D

@Lucy
I'm obviously not a doctor, but from what I have been explained, those results could be (part of the) problem. My doctor said only category A is really useful, B are "circle swimmers" which don't get anywhere, C just twitch and D show no sign of movement whatsoever. He said if there is less than 20% in category A (which is the case for my hubby), they recommend IUI to support the swimmers.
This is just based on what I was told, so please make sure you ask your doctor about your hubby specifically and if anything contradicts what I said, I'm sure it's me who got something wrong!
Oh and for both you and Belle: My doctor said "normal" for category A is around 40-60%, so Belle, your hubby's swimmers are above average in motility ;)

AFM: Travelling this weekend, will be back on Sunday and then ultrasound on Monday to see if the 50mg of clomid have done anything. :S Nervous! Wishing you ladies a happy weekend in the meantime!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Fluffy! DH pretty much has super swimmers. We are totally unexplained lol.

Well test today is inconclusive. I can kind of see something but also kind of can't. It's a super squinter which I should probably count as negative. I posted pics in my journal. I won't put them over here. I've never had a squinter before so that's kind of exciting on its own. Also have never gone this long with no sign of AF. Can't blame a girl for feeling hopeful. I think I'll test again on Sunday if there is no spotting by then


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## Norelisa

So... I am in Bangkok, currently petsitting three lovely animals, two cats and a dog... and on Sunday hubby comes over, hopefully in time before ovulation.. ;)

Seems like we have found a solution for the health care system-problem - we put me under his name, in stead of being a "separate person". That way I normally would be covered at the same time as him, or worst case scenario, one month from we send in the papers. In either case, I have the dr prescriptions to do the tests etc, so we can get started with those next cycle.. (really worst case scenario is we have to pay for the tests, which is still ok).

I really miss my friends here in Bangkok, so I am sooo happy to be back, even if only for a little while!


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## BelleNuit

Sounds like things are going in the right direction Nore! Glad you are enjoying your time in Bangkok :)


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## BelleNuit

Some tan cm so AF should be here by tomorrow. I think maybe I have some functional cysts left from my last femara cycle. I had 5-6 follicles in the 9-14mm range that didn't get big enough to O. It's possible they made cysts and functional cysts can delay AF. 

So with that in mind I won't do the IUI next cycle. I'll take another month break for recovery (in case that is the issue)


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## rickyandlucy

Sorry to hear Belle. Hope you are doing ok <3


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Lucy. I'm used to the disappointment I think. Definitely pissed that this happened. 

I think we will do IUI after all, just because summer really is the best time for treatment for me because work is less busy. It will be less stress this way which is important. I just want this all to be over with. 

Ask I so empathize with you. I think I would lose it if I was facing down the prospect of doing more than one IVF. I'm sorry.


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## Ask4joy

Very sorry AF showed Belle. :hugs: I'm 13dpo...tested yesterday with a FRER and bfn. I would be very surprised if it happened this month...there was a lot of stress! I'll stop progesterone tomorrow if it's still a bfn. Visiting my friend and her new baby (conceived via IVF after unexplained infertility and 5 years of trying)...my baby urge is stronger than ever! I am so ready to be a momma. SO. I really hope 1 round of IVF does the trick.

In good news...DH got the job! And our relationship is quickly recovering. Phew!


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, I am sorry to hear about AF, but I am glad to hear you are going to give IUI another go! It's such a hard balance, to be hopeful without getting your hopes up too high. But no matter what, you need to keep some bit of hope, just for yourself, and your sanity.

Ask, very happy your DH got the job! I expect things will get back to normal for you two very soon. And I hear you, I was telling my DH last week that my heart just aches on a daily basis, I know that I am ready to be a mom, from the bottom of my heart.

Hugs to all! <3


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## BelleNuit

I don't think you can make it through infertility treatments without bit of hope.

I decided last minute to forgo the IUI in August. My cramps were so horrendous this cycle, like I felt like vomiting, the pain radiated around my back and down my legs. Tylenol did nothing to help. I just laid in bed and cried. It was so horrible it's made me want to find out if there is endo or something in there. So I sent a message to my clinic asking about a lap and hysteroscopy. I'm not on my 25th cycle for no reason. There has to be something. If there is mild endo, removing it can sometimes improve the odds of natural conception (doesn't seem to change the odds of IVF). If I could get away without spending 12K on IVF I would love that.

Ask husbands are always much happier when working! Glad things are turning around in that direction! I have high hopes for you that IVF will work quickly!


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## BelleNuit

It seems my mind changes hourly these days on what to do next. 

So the nurse messaged me back already (they are so lovely and quick to respond!). I will need to have a follow-up with the doc to ask about the lap and hysteroscopy. We have a follow-up planned for after our IUI cycles, so I decided last minute just to go ahead with the IUI. The timing for it works out so much better for August anyway. I did decide to do monitored. Already have my acupuncture appointments booked. 

If this IUI doesn't work out then we'll meet with the doc and discuss further testing/IVF. The nurse decided that today is CD 1 based off of the information I gave her about when my AF started yesterday. 

I guess we'll see what happens. I wonder if that pain I had was a cyst rupturing? I was reading symptoms online and they looked pretty spot on and apparently that often happens right around the time of your AF starting. (Not that I advocate Dr Google as a diagnostic tool haha).


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## OnErth&InHvn

AF came.. its ok though! I ovulated!!!! We decided to not do the break cycle and just go on!

100mg Clomid, Pregnitude 1x a day, Ovidrel on + OPK. <3


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## BelleNuit

Glad to hear you're ovulating earth!


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, I am so sorry for the pain you were experiencing. I can see why that would have made it difficult to make a decision. It does sound like a cyst. I have had that same pain myself but never had the cysts diagnosed; hoping that is something the RE could shed some light on. The good news is that I don't think you will regret giving the IUI another shot. This may be a bad example, but earlier this year I had to go out of town for a few days for work RIGHT when I was supposed to O. I made my DH come home for lunch the day I was leaving so we could get in one last try, lol. He was not happy about it, but I told him that at least if it didn't work I would know that we did everything we could.

Yeah for ovulation Earth!! :)

So our RE appt is finally approaching, 2 days and counting. I am both excited and nervous. Really hope we do more than just talk. And I hope it doesn't take 2 months to get the next appt. Baby dust to all!


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## Fluffycookie

@ Belle & Lucy
Sorry AF got you, but it sounds like you both have good plans moving forward! Good luck with your appointment Lucy, if nothing else I'm sure you'll get a lot of information about your options.

@Ask
Congratulations on hubby's job! :D I'm sure thinks will work themselves out now, you're through the worst.

AFM:
We had another clinic appointment today after a really busy weekend. Big surprise: I ovulated on 50mg of clomid!! The doctor literally said: Wow, that mini dosis did the trick. I think he was just as surprised as we were, haha! They have sent me home with an ovidrel injection now which I'm supposed to do tomorrow at 4am (yikes) and then we will do our first IUI on Wednesday morning. So excited!!! Has anyone here injected ovidrel before and do you have any tips? I have never had to inject anything...


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## BelleNuit

Ya, I'm curious if the ultrasound tomorrow will show anything (if they could see a ruptured cyst after the fact, I don't know). I know that I had cysts so its definitely a possibility that it happened. It was shocking how painful it was. Not your typical AF cramping at all. 

Ya, if we hadn't done the last IUI I would forever have wondered if IUI could have worked for us in the end. This way we'll know and we can move on to IVF if it doesn't. 

Glad your appointment is coming up so quickly! My first appointment the RE gave us an overview of what our treatment options were, went over our recent lab work and ordered additional testing (i.e. HSG) that we needed. We had to wait a couple months before the HSG could be completed so it was about 2 months before the next appointment happened. At that appointment the doc just said we were unexplained and we could take whatever treatment approach we wanted. She gave us the success rates and that was it. It wasn't very individualized at all, and there was no interest in trying to understand what was going on with us. Now here we are lol. 

I think my mistake with both of those appointments is that I didn't go in prepared. To make the most of your appointment go in with a list of questions and things you want to talk about ahead of time. Bring an actual list. My first appointment I just froze and started crying and couldn't think of anything LOL


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## Ask4joy

Fluffy - yay for growing follies! I've never given myself a shot but DH will be giving me a lot of shots soon with IVF. Everyone I've talked to says you get over it after the first few times. Eek. Is this your first IUI? Exciting!!!

Belle - I am so sorry you had that much pain! Sounds like you might be right about the cyst. Do you think you could have had a CP? I saw the faint line on your FRER. I totally understand not wanting to waste time. I feel like I've been waiting to have babies my whole life and I'm just done waiting! What a practice in patience. Have you considered getting karyotype tests done? It's not a cheap test but I think ours were covered due to repeat loss. If it isn't too expensive it may be nice to rule out...along with any kind of clotting disorder or other immunological issue. As much as I hate my diagnosis it's good to have some answers. I'm so scared all of our embryos are going to be abnormal but DH keeps telling me to think positive! 

Lucy - good luck with the RE appt! Remember to write down and bring all of your questions and something to write stuff down on! 

Earth - yay for responding to clomid! Good luck next cycle!!!


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## BelleNuit

Ask I have been thinking about that test. It will depend on whether or not it is covered by our health care. These will be questions I ask at the next meeting with our RE.

I guess I'll never know if it was a CP or a cyst. I haven't been passing any tissue, and very minimal clots. I wonder if that line was a bit of a fluke. Not sure

Fluffy I have done an injection. It didn't hurt at all (until after it was already done). Mine was in my abdomen, I just pinched a fatty area of skin 2 inches close to my belly button. I couldn't feel the actual injection at all. The worst part of it is psychological so try not to think about it too much. You can do it! It honestly isn't that bad!


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## Fluffycookie

@Ask
It is! I am SO excited to finally have a chance after all these months of knowing I wasn't even ovulating!! Why is your hubby giving you the shots for IVF instead of yourself?

@Belle
They told me exactly the same: pinch a fatty area in my abdomen and just inject. Thank you for telling me yours didn't hurt, that eases my mind a bit :)
Cysts can hurt terribly, sorry to hear you had to go through that!


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## BelleNuit

Fluffy, some IVF meds have to be injected into your bottom and may be intramuscular, so you can't physically do them yourself. 

The psychological fear of the injection was the worst part and imo it was unnecessary. I was like hyperventilating and it was ridiculous because I couldn't even feel the thing. Definitely don't get worked up about it lol


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## Ask4joy

I'd rather not have to give myself a shot and some of the shots go at the top of your butt and will be hard to reach. 

Belle - hard to know about the test since it was the only one you took. But regardless, if you can find a way for insurance to pay for additional bloodwork that would be great. Like you said...unexplained usually means they just haven't found the problem yet. I also need to schedule my hysteroscopy before doing IVF.


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## BelleNuit

Ya, the one the next morning was negative, but AF was late. So who knows. Doesn't really matter. Outcome is the same. 

The Canadian Healthcare system covers infertility testing, but I don't know if some of the more specialized tests are covered. So I'll ask. I don't want to spend my own money on testing. 

I think it's good you'll have a hysteroscopy before your IVF. Makes a lot of sense!


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## rickyandlucy

Hey ladies, what kind of questions should I ask?

I started to make a list, but I don't actually have that many questions other than what can we do and when can we start, lol!


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## BelleNuit

Lucy I think in your case things will be more straight forward because you have pcos. They will probably start with IUI and something to get you O'ing!

I felt like since we had no explanation there was no straight forward answer and I should have gone prepared with different questions


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## rickyandlucy

To clarify, I haven't been diagnosed with PCOS (yet), but that is one of the things I am hoping they can shed some light on.

And Belle, I was reading more about unexplained infertility, and some other ladies who have been through it recommended getting a second opinion. Just a thought; couldn't hurt!


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## BelleNuit

Well that sounds like a great question to ask then Lucy! 

Where I live there aren't really options for a second opinion. I'm at the private clinic and to get in to the public clinic even for a consult could take up to a year because I'm young and unexplained. The next closest clinic is 3+ hours away, which isn't an option for us.


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## rickyandlucy

Ugh, I'm sorry Belle, I am sure that is all incredibly frustrating. :(


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## BelleNuit

My cycle was cancelled because of a cyst on the left ovary. I'm surprised they cancelled it because I had cysts my last 2 IUIs. I got this cyst on a natural cycle, so I probably get cysts with every ovulation. RE said I wouldn't respond to medications the same with a cyst. So frustrating


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## rickyandlucy

So sorry you are getting bounced around like this Belle <3


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## rickyandlucy

Any of you ladies in the US can give me an idea of cost of the initial RE appt and IUI?

I suspect our insurance won't cover any of it, and even if it does my individual deductible is $2,800.:wacko:


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## BelleNuit

Not sure about RE appointment because doc visits are covered in Canada, but the IUI is not. So an IUI for me is 400 plus an additional 300 for monitoring (700 total)


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## Ask4joy

Sorry about the cyst and the canceled cycle Belle. :(

BFN for me today. AF will be here in 3 days. I guess we have one more cycle before meeting with the geneticist and hopefully starting the IVF protocol in September-October.

Lucy - I think you had questions about your DH's SA? IUI cost us $500 unmonitored (included washing and insemination). I think my intake appt for the first place I went was around $200 but they didn't do any tests, just a new patient consult and my insurance didn't cover it. Now that I've had repeat pregnancy loss I think my insurance is covering more testing - I also got a 2nd opinion and my new RE is way more aggressive and immediately figured out our problem (most likely).


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## BelleNuit

Sorry about the BFN Ask. Maybe its kind of nice to have one more cycle to prepare yourself for IVF? This way you can fully enjoy your summer.

AFM I'm going to go on hiatus again due to this medically-imposed break that I've been put on. May as well make the most of it. Hope you all enjoy the rest of your summer!


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## Ask4joy

Sounds like a good plan, Belle! I probably won't be too active the next few weeks as it's going to be a natural cycle but I will check in! 

Have a great August, Belle!


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## Fluffycookie

@Lucy
Costs seem to be very different in the US than in Germany, so I'm not sure this helps but with medication for PCOS, ours is about 800 &#8364; and just the IUI is about 300 &#8364;, so that's about 950 and 350 dollars.

@Ask & Belle
Sorry to hear that. Remember though that you both have a good next step lined up on your journeys! Take all the time you need, I think it's important to know when you need a break.

AFM:
Had the IUI today - didn't hurt one bit! :) Hubby's SA was literally twice as good this time as last time, so both the doctor and us are feeling really positive. They sad from my blood results, my hormone level was 330 and they'd want at least 200, so that was good - but I was too nervous to remember what that level was of ^^"

Now I'm supposed to inject HCG 3x over the next two weeks. The nurse said I could test 14 days dpo and to call them if there is no bleeding by then, for a blood test. I'm pretty scared of getting a false positive, do you ladies think it's safe to test 14 days dpo if I inject the last dosis of HCG (1500) at 9dpo? :S


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, I understand needing a break, even more so now that you are basically being forced to. We are here for you when you need us. <3

Ask, I hope you guys get to start the IVF ASAP!! And I am so glad things are getting better for you and DH!

Fluffy, glad to hear the IUI went well! Fx for a BFP ASAP! 

So! RE appt. Lots to tell. We sat down with the doc and got right down to business. I was pleased that he seemed to take our situation very seriously, while still being optimistic. He had absolutely no concern re DH's SA, so we ruled him out. Even though DH had 0% rapid progression, he had 70% moderate progression, and doc says it's really only the overall progression that they worry about (they like to see at least 40%). He said the morphology was a little low, but "close enough", and that a lot of people don't even think morphology really matters. Said if he had to give the SA a grade, he would give it an A-.

He said that even though we have only been trying for a year, the fact that we have had no form of birth control for two years and have not gotten pregnant is concerning. Based on the length of my cycles prior to the clomid and the anovulatory cycle, he suspects an ovulatory disorder, which he says fortunately is one of the easier problems for them to deal with. He did not exactly diagnose me with PCOS (at least not in so many words), but basically said if I wanted to call it that I could, because my cycles do fit many of the markers. He ruled out clomid since we already did 5 rounds. He said with things like that, if they are going to work they usually do in the first couple rounds. He did bloodwork and an ultrasound. The ultrasound was actually really cool. At first I didn't think it was necessary because my gyno had already done one (I am super shy and never had a guy doc down there), but I was glad he insisted because it looked totally different this time, and was really cool. It didn't look at all like swiss cheese this time. And, he showed me that my right ovary is about to ovulate! My left one he seemed to have a little trouble finding which worried me at first, lol, but he didn't seem too concerned. But anyways, sure enough, I get home and take an OPK, and it is positive! I don't think I've ever gotten a positive this early before. So, we've got one more shot before the game plan kicks in. I am just so thrilled to have a game plan, and that he is ready to start pretty much immediately!

So all in all it was a very efficient appointment. I feel like they did as much as they could have done today, and seemed to be sensitive to the fact that we have about a 2 hour drive to get to them. Should this cycle end in the usual way, I am to call on CD 1 of the next cycle to get an appointment for an HSG. He gave me a prescription for an antibiotic to take beforehand. He also went ahead and gave me a prescription for Femara. He also said that if we want to go ahead with IUI next cycle we can. And the best part; the IUI even _without_ insurance is only $250 plus $180 for the semen wash.

Can you tell I am excited ladies? :) He helped me find my hope again. I didn't realize just how badly I needed it, lol. Now I am a little worried about the HSG. I have definitely been ovulating at least some of the time the last two years, so it would make sense that maybe I haven't been getting pregnant due to blockages. Hopefully if that is the case it won't be too hard to fix.

Baby dust to all! We need another BFP on this board! Maybe it will be you Fluffy!!
:dust:


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## Ask4joy

Lucy - that is great that you have a plan and are feeling optimistic! Hearing our doctors have faith that they will help us get pregnant is so reassuring. Glad you are getting some answers and are moving forward! I suggest taking some ibuprofen before the HSG. It's not a fun one but it's pretty quick. 

Fluffy - congrats on your first (and hopefully Only) IUI! Why do they have you injecting hcg after ovulation? I've never heard of that before.


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## Fluffycookie

@Lucy
Sounds like you had a really good first visit, yay! :D

@Ask
The doctor explained to me that the hcg injections will make my body think it's pregnant even before it would naturally produce hcg itself. Apparently this supports implantation, so that's why they do it.


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## rickyandlucy

Fluffy, I have heard of this too. I know some gals will intentionally test while the HCG is still in their system so that they can see them start to go negative, so they can get an idea of when the meds are out of their system. But in any case, if you are taking the last one at 9 and they said to test at 14, I would think that would be plenty of time to avoid a false positive. At 14 DPO, if you are truly pregnant you would most likely get a standard or strong positive, whereas if it was caused by the meds I would think that even if it did show up at 14 DPO it would be very faint.

Fx for you lady! <3


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## Ask4joy

I got the hcg trigger shot once and it was still in my system 10 days later but was gone on the 11th day (faint positive on FRER then negative the next day).


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## Fluffycookie

thank you lucy :)

@Ask
the trigger shot is a much higher dosage, my doctor said, so I'm hoping the nurse was right and the HCG should be out of my system 5-7 days after the last shot so then I could test Friday 18th... so impatient already and it's only 2dpo X) Maybe it's a good thing I've never had a TWW before, this is proving harder than I thought!

Thinking I will definitely not test before Wednesday 16th and will try and wait until Sunday 20th, but I might given in and test any time after that Wednesday ^^"


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## rickyandlucy

Looks like I am right behind you Fluffy, I think I o'ed yesterday! The TWW sucks major. Vent to me anytime, lol!

Side note, where in Germany are you? I have good friends from Berlin, Ansbach, and Lorrach :)


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## Fluffycookie

yay lucy, tww together! :) We moved from southern England to Germany last year for hubby's work, now we live near Frankfurt so pretty much in the middle of Germany. My dad's family is originally from Berlin so we speak German. Where abouts are you from? Are you doing anything to make the TWW easier? I think I will try to distract myself as much as possible, netflix is a heaven sent


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## rickyandlucy

I live in Virginia, east of Richmond. When I was in high school my family hosted exchange students from Germany. We shared a room (bunk beds & everything) so needless to stay we became close, they are like sisters to me. :) Were you raised speaking German? I feel like that would be a tough language to learn as an adult! I wish I spoke a second language so badly! DH speaks Spanish. I understand a lot in Spanish but don't have a lot of confidence in my speaking abilities.

I have reached the conclusion that the TWW sucks no matter what you do. Not sure there really is any way to help it, lol. I just try to busy myself with work, and on the weekends working around the house. Lately I've been decluttering, throwing and giving things away. We will be moving at the end of this year/beginning of the next and our house is currently for sale, so I welcome the opportunity to purge!

But no matter how busy I try to keep myself, it is pretty much impossible not to obsess, lol. Just do your best, that's all I can say, lol!


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## Fluffycookie

That's really cool! :D Yes I'm bilingual, though it took a bit of getting back into it when we moved here. If you're used to only speaking to family, speaking in formal settings and such takes a little while. It definitely is a tough language, all the grammar! It's great for people who like rules though because there are so few exceptions. English on the other hand is all exceptions, so that is really hard for some people too (I am actually a researcher (post doctoral) in european languages, so this is kind of my thing :D) If you understand a lot of Spanish, that means your passive language ability is already high - which means you would learn to speak (active language ability) much quicker if you practiced :) Just go for it whenever you have the chance, people love it when you make in effort in their native tongue!

3dpo today and the TWW is already feeling like forever X) Did the first HCG injection today and it hurt a little more than the trigger (it's more fluid, even though the dosage is lower), but nothing too bad. 1 down 2 to go! I actually love decluttering, I have been doing a lot of that too - since autumn last year... thinking I should make space for baby stuff. this was before I knew we'd have any problems. By now everything is actually pretty organised, I even reorganised the kitchen. We have so much more storage space now though, so that's great. Next I should tackle the cellar, but I'm kind of scared to open that can of worms ^^" What areas have you been declutterin?


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## rickyandlucy

When my husband and I were first dating his English was awful. It just so happened that my Spanish at the time was decent. But as his English got better I started losing my Spanish, lol! We decided a long time ago that our kids will be bilingual, and I think when that happens it will help me learn too. So I am looking forward to that. :)

The weekends during the TWW aren't too bad for me. We are so busy I don't have time to even think about it. This weekend all we did was work around the house basically. Mostly the yard and patio. Having your home for sale is great motivation to finish up all those projects and to keep it clean, lol.

Last weekend I tackled the closet and the bathroom. Got rid of lots of partially used hotel toiletries and old make up, lol. Very satisfying! Believe it or not I don't have much decluttering left to do at this point. Our house is small but has lots of storage. We really haven't outgrown this house yet, and our next house is going to be significantly bigger. But that was done with babies in mind. Never thought we would be moving into it without any. :( Even so, when we move we will still be taking the opportunity to get rid of quite a few things. I hate redundancy. If I don't need it, it's gone! Lol. The hard part is convincing yourself of the things you really don't need, lol.

It is the weekdays during the two week wait that are hard for me. For my job I sit in front of a computer all day. If I feel any weird twinge, to google I go! Lol. Trying to get a grip on that, but I usually lose that battle, lol. The first week isn't usually so bad because I know I shouldn't be feeling anything yet. But after about the 7 day mark, it's a daily struggle, lol.


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## Fluffycookie

I think it's perfect that you can move into the house first and *then* get pregnant. Moving house is very stressful at the best of times and you don't want any added stress during pregnancy or with a young baby :) This way you'll get to make a perfect nest in advance.

I'm home with a bad cold this week, so it's super hard to distract myself. 6dpo today... if I'm lucky, implantation will be happening in the next few days or even today! With the regular HCG injections though, I know there is no point in symptom spotting because I won't know if they're from the injections or from a possible pregnancy. This is taking all my patience X)

How is everyone else doing?


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## rickyandlucy

I am actually hoping to already be pregnant by the time we move in. We won't be moving in until December at the earliest, but more likely January. Scary thing is that we put our house on the market ONE WEEK ago thinking it would take a while to sell (we live in a rural area and have listed twice before and got nowhere), but we've already had FIVE showings AND have an offer coming in. So now we may have to move twice. But we knew that was a possible risk; worth it to avoid having two mortgages. We won't be moving far, staying in the same town. We may move in with my aunt or my parents while we finish our new house, and they are down the street from the new house, so that will make moving into the new house easier. But we will see. I don't know how much the offer is coming in for. If it's too low it will be a no go. Trying not to get ahead of myself.

And the TWW already sucks. I think I jinxed it when I said the first week wasn't too bad. I am only 5 DPO and getting impatient. And I find myself per usual second guessing my O date. I use the Ava bracelet, but I don't think it works for me. She thinks today is O date, which goes against every other piece of information I have so far. But I can't help but worry, just want to make sure we didn't miss it!

How are you ladies doing?


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## rickyandlucy

Life just got real interesting for us, lol. We got a FULL PRICE offer on our home after ONE WEEK on the market. Looks like we will be living out of suitcases for a few months, lol. I am excited and nervous and sad all at the same time. This was my first house and we have put so much work into it!

I feel sick to my stomach, butterflies; all kinds of stuff. Going to be hard to symptom spot this cycle even if I wanted to, because I won't know if it's just being nervous about selling the house, lol.


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## Fluffycookie

Wow, congratulations on the house offer! :D

8dpo today for me, finally in the second half of the TWW... AF should come on Wednesday if I'm not pregnant, so even if I can only test next Sunday, I guess I should have an idea later next week. If AF shows, my doctor said we'd just do 50mg of clomid again with IUI, so same as this time.

How is everyone else doing?


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## rickyandlucy

Hey Fluffy, feeling anything yet? :)

My AF is also due Wed or Thu of next week. The wait is grueling.

How's everybody else? You gals are quiet, lol!


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## rickyandlucy

So I called my RE's office yesterday to check on my bloodwork. To my surprise, the doc himself called me back this morning. He said overall things look ok, but they are consistent with "someone who doesn't ovulate normally". I have elevated LH (I was about to ovulate, would that have anything to do with it?) and elevated prolactin. He wants to retest the prolactin. Exactly the same thing happened with my obgyn; she retested my prolactin and it came back normal.

My reserves were good though (I think that's what he called it). He said they like to see a score of 1 and I had an 8, lol.


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## Norelisa

That's good Lucy :)

I'm waiting for af, but not sure when I ovulated, either af comes today or in two days. Managed to get some kind of insect or spider bite so all day yesterday and until this afternoon I had a pretty high temperature (at least for me, with 38.6). I got a swelling around a bite and my knee is hurting). Also managed to stress around since I stay an additional week in Bangkok, word of advice, think twice before booking through opodo ! Luckily it worked out and they got me a new ticket for Tuesday. That means I arrive in Paris on cd2 or 3, depending on when af shows and I can go ahead with the bloodwork on cd3 or cd4 and ultrasound around cd 12. Fingers crossed it will be covered by French social security, otherwise it's not a huge expense I think, and I'll hopefully be in the system before the following cycle.. 


Who here lives in Germany ? I might go this weekend, have to look for tickets to cologne or hamburg.. Hubby is there on a work trip and wants me to come over.. He speaks a little bit German after 2 years in Austria.. I only understand some words due to the similarities between German and Norwegian ;) I also studied linguistic once upon a time, in Paris :) my undergrad.. :)

Oh it has done me a lot of good getting away from mother in law for a while !


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## Fluffycookie

@Lucy
Hope you get a proper diagnosis soon, but great to know that your reserves are good :)

@Nita
Over here, been living in Germany for a year now (have some German family, so I speak German as my 2nd mothertongue)! I hope you have a good trip :D
Personally, I'm quite happy with my mother-in-law living in a different country now, haha!


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## rickyandlucy

Nore, glad you were able to get away from your MIL for a bit!

Fluffy, any news on you?

Some friends of my husband came to visit this weekend. They have a two month old, so I got a nice little dose to satisfy my baby fever, haha. Mom clearly wasn't getting much sleep and wasn't feeling well, so I was happy to take the baby every chance I got, lol.

Temps are going down gradually. Not feeling very hopeful. But I do prefer that to the other cycles when my BBT allows me to cling to false hope until the last moment. Went for another blood draw this morning to retest prolactin. Just waiting on AF so I can schedule the HSG.


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## BelleNuit

Lucy I hope you get some answers soon about that prolactin! Glad to hear things are moving forward testing wise for you!

Nore, sorry to hear about that spider bite! That sounds uncomfortable! I love hearing all about your travels though :) I'm keeping my fx for you this next cycle!

AFM, I've been spotting for 5 days now. CD 17 today. I'm thinking I'm having an anovulatory cycle. I had one about a year and a half ago and it was a 17 day cycle with lots of spotting and really patchy ewcm, and this cycle seems to be following that same pattern. I'm thinking that cyst must have thrown my hormone balance out of whack. At this point I'm just hoping for AF so that this process can get restarted. 

I'm thinking next IUI in October, but we'll see what happens. I also applied on a new job, if I get it we'll stop TTC for a few months. I'm hoping I'll get a call back for an interview in the next few days! But I guess we'll see. 

Oh and I also have plans to see a naturopath tomorrow. I'm interested to hear what she has to say. I've also overhauled my diet and I'm eating pretty darn healthy these days!


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## Fluffycookie

@Lucy
Things are moving along for you! :) I'm on 12dpo today and wish so badly I could test, but I know there is no point with the HCG injections... the earliest I could possibly test for a reliable result is Friday, better even Sunday. AF is due to make an appearance on Thursday, so I guess if it does *not*, then at least I can test on Friday. It will be a looong week yet though X)

@Belle
Fingers crossed for that job! :) I've also been trying to get back into eating healthy but this TWW just had me stress eating a lot ^^" and that little nagging voice saying that I *could* be pregnant and shouldn't restrict my calories/eat when I'm hungry... hoping to get back into really healthy eating this weekend! (Well, hoping I might be pregnant, but the odds are of course against that.)


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## rickyandlucy

Good to see you here Belle :) Good luck, hope you get the job! But also hope you can go ahead and do that IUI! And I know exactly what you mean about AF. It's like, hurry up already, if you're going to ruin my day just go ahead and do it, lol! Regarding your diet, I have made some minor changes myself, and in your case it will be even more interesting to see what happens. I have read that some women with unexplained were finally successful on a gluten free diet.

And Nore, somehow I missed that spider bite! Keep an eye on that. I had one of those before and my skin got really necrotic around the bite! Antibiotic ointment and bandages I think is all they recommended.

Fluffy, I am still pulling for you this cycle girl! :)


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## Ask4joy

Hi ladies!

Lucy - AMH of 8 is great! Mine is 3 and I was told "above average" for my age. I think women with pcos tend to have higher AMH due to anovulation and lots of eggs left! I've read that women above 1.5 respond the best to IVF.

Nore - good luck with all the testing and getting the ball rolling with fertility treatment in France. Have fun in Germany...hopefully you can have a couple beers! ;)

Belle - good luck with the job! FX! Sorry to hear about the spotting. I hate spotting - progesterone has been great for me.

Any updates fluffy? I know what you mean about eating healthy / exercise. I'm trying to eat lots of fruit and veggies as snacks. Also I've read that in early pregnancy you really don't need extra calories but when I want that ice cream it's a good excuse lol.

Had a fun weekend at my cottage with lots of friends - kind of a last "hurrah" of summer. Now DH and I are back on the fertility diet / healthy living wagon and getting ready for IVF! It looks like I'm ovulating super early and earlier than ever this month. EWCM last 3-4 days, positive opk last night, breasts are starting to get tender. Only cd 12 today. I guess that brings us closer to starting IVF! Of course still hoping we will get lucky!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Ask, progesterone supplements unfortunately won't help this situation because I don't think I ovulated. I'm having break through spotting because my body can't maintain a thick lining with just estrogen. The one other anovulatory cycle I had was just the same as this with several days of spotting leading up to the breakthrough bleed. That cycle was only 17 days, today I'm on CD 18 and the bleeding is definitely heavier, I wouldn't be surprised if it went to full flow soon because I'm having cramping. But I guess we'll see. 

I'll be going to my first naturopath appointment tonight. Its kind of funny timing

Glad you've been enjoying the last few days of summer Ask! And yay for an early O! Thats fantastic! I'm keeping my FX for you that you'll be one of those lucky ones and get your BFP right before IVF!


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## Fluffycookie

@Lucy
Thank you!

@Ask
I've read the same about calories, still I find it hard not to use it as an excuse during this TWW X)

AFM:
13dpo today and with the HCG from the inejctions leaving my system, I'm sad to report I feel a lot elss pregnant/different now. This most likely means I'm not pregnant. Still have to wait for AF to show on Thursday and until the weekend to test (without risking a false positive from the injections), but at this rate, I feel like I already know it will be negative :(


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry you're feeling like you're out fluffy. Its so cruel how the treatments can make us feel pregnant, even when we aren't. I really do hope you are pregnant though and that you'll be in for a pleasant surprise soon.


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## red_head

Hi, I'm going to join you all if that's okay. I haven't read back through all 100 pages, but just some of the more recent ones. 
Honestly it feels nice to be with people who are on the same journey, but also a bit sad as I never expected this to be this hard! 
Fingers crossed for all of us x


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## BelleNuit

Welcome Red! Having others who can relate to what you are going through is what helps to make this all a little bit better


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## red_head

For sure :) it's not easy to talk about in RL as people just don't get it unless they're going through it.


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## Ask4joy

Welcome red!

Fluffy - you aren't out yet! A lot of women don't really have any true pregnancy symptoms until 5-6 weeks because hcg is still pretty low.

Belle - good luck at the naturopaths! I've wanted to see one myself, so please share anything you learn! If it is an anovulatory cycle for you hopefully AF shows soon and you can move on!

Wondering what is causing an early O for me...I quadrupled my coq10 from 100/day to 400/day a month or so ago and have also been taking maca for over a month now pretty religiously. I've definitely noticed the EPO gives me great EWCM! Before I started taking it I rarely had EWCM but these last 5 months I've been taking it (only before O) I get days of it and have gotten pregnant (albeit CPs) twice since I started it (also started ubiquinol and fish oil around the same time).


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## rickyandlucy

Welcome Red!

Fluffy, you are so not out yet! Lots of women become convinced they are out only to get their BFP's. My best friend said she went to bed convinced her cramps were due to AF. When she didn't arrive, she tested, and voila!

Maybe the meds were just so strong that your body just needs some time to accomplish the same thing on its own :)


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## BelleNuit

I'm not sure if I mentioned it over here, but I had applied for a new job with better pay and better benefits. I got an interview for it for Friday at 11! So excited!! If I got it we would have to quit TTC for awhile, but I feel okay with that!

Also AF showed today, so definitely didn't ovulate. Was only a 17 day cycle.


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## Fluffycookie

@red
Hello and welcome! I think many of us have faced that initial sadness about needing help at all/something being wrong, but being able to get the help you need is all that matters and in the end, nobody cares how your miracle baby came about. What has your journey been like so far? Introduce yourself :)

@Belle
Woop woop well done!!! Will cross my fingers for your Friday interview - when I was jobhunting I researched interview tipps and it actually said Fridays are the best days because everyone is in a good mood before the weekend. Sorry about AF showing, but focus on that cool job interview coming up!

Thank you everyone for telling me I'm not out yet :hugs: I'm 14dpo today, so AF should show tomorrow. Have been feeling the typical pulling/tugging sensation I usually get before AF since last night, so I really am just waitinig for it to show now :( I know I'm not out yet, but I'm prepared for that BFN on Friday morning, more likely AF showing before that.

Just in case I do make it to Friday morning before AF showing and can even test, I wanted to check, what is this group like about testing? Do you prefer not mentioning test results either way, not mentioning BFPs (haha, as if...), brief update rather than long update...? I thought I would ask juuuust in case.


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## red_head

Thanks all for welcoming me :)
Fluffy - hopefully that's not AF, you never know. When I've been pregnant before the symptoms are so similar to AF you can't really tell. And personally I think it's nice to hear of BFPs from people going through similar things as it gives me hope! Although it does kick me in the ovaries when it's someone who accidentally got pregnant because they sneezed and t stopped their contraception working! ;) 
Belle - good luck for your interview! 
Ask - what is EPO? I'm only taking the seven seas folic acid ttc tablet so wondering if I should start taking more stuff! 

My story - I'm 30 in about three weeks, hubby is 42 soon after. He's disabled with limited mobility. We've been trying for four years, three losses - can't get past 7 weeks. The first loss was soon after we started trying, then nothing for years until we got pregnant in Feb this year (following a hsg test), then we had two losses one cycle apart. I am sure I've had at least two chemicals too as we've had v faint lines then late periods but no really confirmation and sometimes you just get dodgy tests. We were first referred to the fertility clinic about two years ago but then I got really ill just as we were starting treatment, had to be discharged while I recovered, which took just under a year (neurological condition now in remission). Now back and in first cycle of clomid. Hubby's tests don't show any issues. I had pcos but it's vanished apparently! My bmi is also high and i need to lose a couple stone before we're eligible for IVF, which I'm doing via slimming world. I think I've got endo but they haven't really investigated for that. 
I'm really struggling with everything at the moment, I've had quite bad depression and anxiety, especially after the most recent loss. I think I broke for a little bit, but I don't want to give up and I've been working really hard on myself to get better. We have decided due to a job opportunity which I wouldn't be able to get pregnant while doing, that we're going to stop trying in December for a year if nothing as happened by then, although I keep changing my mind about that due to hubby's age and health problems! We'll see!


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## BelleNuit

FX Fluffy! For BFPs definitely let us know! We will be so happy for you!! After that we do prefer that discussion of your BFP happens elsewhere. For myself, last cycle I had a squinter which I thought could be a BFP. I let the group know here, and then I kept all of the discussion/obsession over it on my journal. For pics, put them behind a spoiler tab so that it isn't triggering for anybody. And you should be set :) I'm rooting for you!!

Red, thanks for sharing your story, it must be so heart breaking to go through all of those losses. Quitting for a year would be a big decision. But it would give you lots of time to get your body to where it needs to be. I think age is less of an issue for our men, but if you are really concerned, you could get a couple samples of swimmers frozen at the clinic for use later during a treatment cycle (if you are wanting to pursue IUI/IVF that way). In a way you're preserving his fertility that way. My acupuncturist said that coq10 is great for our men to take too for quality! My DH takes 400mg a day. Thats really fantastic that you're pcos has vanished though, you must be doing something right!

I met with the naturopath last night. It was pretty good, she said that my estrogen was slightly low, and my FSH was slightly high (although still in the normal range, just not in the "optimal" range), and that those things could lead to thinner lining and mild egg quality issues. If estrogen is low it makes sense that I had such horrific SE with the femara because it lowers estrogen even further, haha. Anyway, she sounded pretty confident that she could treat these issues. I will be doing adrenal testing to see how that system is working because apparently adrenal fatigue can result in hormonal imbalances. She will be sending me a detailed treatment plan with supplements and diet recommendations in the next week or so. Honestly, it felt really good to sit down with someone who cared about trying to find out what was going on with our unexplained infertility, and who wanted to treat the root cause. She said to give her 3 months before trying again. If I get the job that timeline would work fairly well for me, we might end up waiting a bit longer even.


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## rickyandlucy

Belle, I will be rooting for you to get the job, but I am sad that it would mean you would stop TTC for a while. I would be interested to see what your naturopath recommends as far as diet. But regardless, I just hope it all works out in a way that makes you happy!

Ask, I have been thinking of you. When do you guys go to see the geneticist, and when do they think they might be able to start IVF?

Red, that is some extremely tough stuff you have been dealing with. No one should have to go through what you have been through, but you have come to the right place. Everyone here is a huge help. You are not in this alone.

Fluffy, it ain't over 'til it's over! Keep your chin up. It is ok to be hopeful. And with that...

I love all of you ladies here. I could not have made it through all these cycles without you. I reluctantly decided to test this morning. I say reluctantly because my temp was going down several days in a row, and I felt so not pregnant. But I went ahead and tested, partly bc my temp went up slightly, but mostly because I was planning to fill the prescriptions for Femara and the antibiotic for the HSG.

I finally got my BFP ladies. I can't even believe it. And of course being my first ever BFP and first baby, I will remain terrified until it is confirmed by the doc, but I am trying to stay hopeful. Regardless of what happens, I will still be rooting for you all! Please don't ever give up ladies. You deserve this! I love you all! <3


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## steph1607

Oh my goodness, congratulations Lucy!! I'm no longer a Clomid or any kind of buddy at the moment as we are in between treatments but I have of course been following along. Wishing you so much love and happiness and without doubt a healthy 9 months! <3


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## red_head

Oh wow congratulations! That's very exciting! It's the strangest most scary lovely feeling! Do you mind me asking whether you were having treatment this cycle or did anything different? 
Wishing you a lovely happy healthy 9 months! 

Belle that info from the naturopath sounds really helpful! Much more thorough than the appointments I've had in clinic!


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## rickyandlucy

I don't mind at all Red. We actually didn't have any assistance from a doc this cycle. I was literally just waiting for this cycle to end so we could move on to HSG, Femara, and IUI. But after I got AF last month, I knew that there would be at least one cycle before the RE could do anything, and I was tired of wasting cycles. So I figured I would at least try to take matters into my own hands. In addition to temping and OPK's, I also added Fertilaid & Ovaboost. I can only imagine they probably had the most to do with it, because they were the only thing I had never done before, and they made me ovulate early. I did change my diet slightly, reduced my gluten intake and tried a low GI diet; but I did not stick to that religiously. I never remember seeing EWCM, so we used Preseed. I also tried the ol' pillow under the bum for about 15 min after BD'ing, lol.

Wishing you all BFP's and lots of baby dust! <3


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## BelleNuit

Congratulations Lucy :)


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## Fluffycookie

As I already said in the other thread, huge CONGRATULATIONS to you Lucy ^^ I wish you the very best and a happy, safe and healthy 9 months!


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## Fluffycookie

(forgot to say)

Thank you for letting me know Belle, I shall stick to that if I get to test on Friday! :)

Keeping my chin up until then! X)


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## OnErth&InHvn

OPk porn! Close or +?
 



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## BelleNuit

Is control on the left? I think it's close!


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> Is control on the left? I think it's close!

yep! I was just told to trigger since its so close!! :happydance::happydance:


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## BelleNuit

Woo hoo! Happy impending O Earth!


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## Fluffycookie

@Earth
Yay for ovulation!! and welcome to the TWW limbo X)

AFM
15 dpo today. No spotting or bleeding yet. The waiting is killing me. I felt such typical cramps last night that I was certain I'd wake up to AF but... nothing. AF should really show today, otherwise I will test tomorrow morning :S


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## BelleNuit

Sounds promising Fluffy!


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## Ask4joy

Congratulations Lucy!!! So happy for you. Wishing you all the best!

Red - I am very sorry for your losses. I have also experienced several early losses (mine were all CPs - never made it past 5 weeks). Does your DH have a genetic disability? I'm wondering if that could be impacting the embryos? I'm just now learning about chromosomes and genetics after being diagnosed with abnormal chromosomes myself. It might be worth asking to have a repeat pregnancy loss panel done. They check for clotting disorders, immunological issues and can do a karyotype test to determine both of your chromosomal structures. Hoping you get some answers soon!

Belle - sounds like the naturopath has some good insight. What is your FSH, if you don't mind me asking? 

Fluffy - cramps and no AF is a good sign!! FX for you! 

Earth - happy bding! :)

AFM - pretty sure I Od 2 days ago on CD 12. Never Od before CD 14 before and that was only a couple times. Usually O cd16-18. Definitely felt it. Definitely timed BD perfectly lol. If no BFP this cycle then I will start birth control next cycle and then will start stims after that (most likely early October). Then I have to wait 6-8 weeks for them to test the embryos and get me ready for the transfer so that probably won't happen until Late Nov/Dec. Feels so far away but I'm sure it will fly by.


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## BelleNuit

It was 7.2. She said it should be under 7 for my age. Basically estrogen has a suppressant effect on FSH, and because my estrogen is on the lower side of normal (like any lower and it would be abnormal) my FSH is in the upper range of normal. I really don't know what would cause slightly lower estrogen (like its subclinical because I'm not really experiencing any symptoms other than infertility, which is likely a result of thin lining because of the low estrogen). And google isn't very helpful in that regard lol. But maybe diet can help. I was reading though that lower estrogen usually means that a person will respond well to stimulation medications. So I will probably be an excellent candidate for IVF, shouldn't need too much medication and have a decent AFC (21). I'd be more inclined to do a freeze all cycle so I could focus on getting a nice cushy lining during a FET cycle. But one step at a time. We won't be doing IVF until spring at this rate, especially if I get this new job!

Ask - One step at a time! The early O means you can get started earlier!


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## Ask4joy

Mine was 8.4 a year ago and I forgot to ask my doctor what it was last month. I know they look at the hormone ratios and I think all of mine were "normal" and my AMH was above average for my age. I've never had a AFC done. How do they do that?

Yes - one step at a time! I'm just super pumped I Od early. I hate Oing late and BDing on a schedule for so long. Now we can just relax and do what we want lol. Weird thing is it was a rather painful O - only on one side but similar to the O pain I get on clomid. Maybe I ovulated more than 1 egg! Or maybe I have endo because my right side always experiences more pain than my left (or could I o from one side more often than the other?). Anyway, next month it's birth control!

We see the geneticist next Weds and have our IVF consult next Thursday!


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## BelleNuit

It's possible you O more from the right side. The right ovary has slightly better blood supply so tends to mature an egg a bit quicker. 

My FSH was exactly the same as it was a year ago, so I'll bet yours is similar! 

AFC is just antral follicle counts. So on a baseline day 3 ultrasound they will count up how many small follicles they can see. 

I had my AMH blood draw at beginning of July, but results are not in yet. I'm just going to use the results to help decide when to do IVF. 

Technically my hormone ratios are all normal too. I think though that there are "optimal" hormone ranges, and I think my estrogen is outside of that optimal range. It's still normal in the sense that I'm ovulating and not getting hot flashes, but it's not high enough to thicken lining nicely. So I'm in a "sub-fertile" range. No idea how the ND will fix it. Curious to see what she comes up with


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## OnErth&InHvn

I'm not really having any symptoms of the trigger..last time I felt terrible!


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## BelleNuit

I didn't have any SE with my trigger either, other than localized tenderness. Yay for not feeling yucky lol


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## Fluffycookie

@Belle
I heard similar things as Ask about hormones ratios being really important compared to just individual values, but I'm far from an expert on the topic!

@Earth
I had hardly any symptoms from my trigger and the ultrasound the next day (30 hours later) confirmed I had ovulated from it, so fingers crossed for you! :)


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## BelleNuit

The ratio of LH to FSH is very important as it can indicate pcos if it is out. High estrogen can lower FSH and can make it harder to respond to stimulation meds. Low estrogen will result in higher FSH which is my situation. But all my values are in the appropriate ranges and ratios, just I wonder if they are not in the "optimal" ranges, if that makes sense?


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## Ask4joy

I didn't feel anything after the trigger either, Earth.

Belle - didn't know that about the blood supply to the right ovary. That makes sense then! 

Forgot to mention to Red what EPO is: Evening Primrose Oil. Supposed to help balance hormones and improve EWCM. Def does for me. But you aren't supposed to take it after O as it has an opening effect on the cervix (I think?).


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## OnErth&InHvn

I wont be testing it out like last time. I think it makes it worse. 

Now just to wait for a few temps and see what happens. 

I dont understand all the FSh, etc but those were going to be my next steps if we continued on after this cycle but now im out of meds.


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## Ask4joy

Wondering if any of you gained weight on clomid? After 6 rounds of clomid in the last year I'm wondering if it might be the reason why I'm gaining when I maintained my weight for years. I lost 15 pounds on weight watchers this past winter/spring but after 2 more rounds of 100mg clomid have put 10 back on (plus I stopped weight watchers but I gained the weight back so fast and that's kinda unusual for me). I'm about 5'5" and have been between 125-130 for years and years but now I'm closer to 140 and not feeling good about my body. I guess I'll have to start tracking again...would be nice to lose some weight before I start stimming in October. 

I've also been on progesterone the last 5 cycles after O...which I think can cause weight gain too?


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## steph1607

Ask, I definitely felt like I put weight on when I was taking Norethisterone and Clomid. I've always been very athletic so I find it easy to see when I do gain, and I definitely noticed it around my tummy.


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## Ask4joy

I'm the same, Steph. And yes I notice it in my tummy more than anywhere. I used to be able to cheat now and then and my weight wouldn't change but lately it seems like I'm gaining so easily! Once all this TTC / pregnancy business is over I'm going to kick my butt into gear but I don't want to restrict calories too much now.


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## steph1607

Yes, I am exactly the same! I keep wanting to try and get a lot leaner again, but then figure that cutting while I'm trying for a baby isn't my smartest idea! I used to have a nice little six pack going on but I've barely seen it this side of Christmas! And hubby and I just got in from having a curry... saying all this, I have already said that after this weekend is over, I'm going to be well and truly back on the straight and narrow, at least Monday- Friday. I want to start eating really well in preparation for IVF, and I've started track sprints again so it will also help with that.


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## BelleNuit

I was on femara (so not clomid) and didn't notice weight gain. I did notice though that I had more intense cravings during my TWW for fatty/salty foods.


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## Ask4joy

Steph - do you know when you are going to start IVF? Maybe we will be cycle buddies! 

Belle - I don't know why more docs don't try FE first ...seems like the SE are much less?


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## BelleNuit

Ya, I think the side effects are better and its out of your system faster. The FE makes sense to me, but its used in an off-label way if used for infertility because its actually a cancer drug. So maybe thats why some docs don't like to use it?

So I had my interview today. The long and short of it is I wouldn't be surprised if I got the job, but it would be significantly more stress for significantly better pay. So essentially I have to choose between better work-life balance or better pay (and better benefits... i.e. we would save thousands of dollars for IVF with the new job's benefits). I have a more detailed post over in my journal. But I don't want to derail the conversation here lol.


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## Ask4joy

Belle that's great that the interview went well and that you have options! That's definitely a tough decision to make. I left my job because it was really draining me and we knew I was going to leave anyway once we start a family. I'm working on starting my own online boutique and it's going pretty well so far! Definitely couldn't support myself on that as a single person but I can't not have a way to make money...just too weird for me lol. The fact that you could save a lot on IVF is definitely enticing. I'm sure you'll think it through and do what is best for you!


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## OnErth&InHvn

I havent gained weight on Clomid, just gained it in general. :cry:

I think im actually 2dpo, not 1.


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## Ask4joy

I think I'm 3dpo earth - cycle buddies!


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## steph1607

Belle I'm really glad your interview went well, especially after your drama before it (I hope that resolves itself soon enough), credit to you for keeping your cool! I read through your lists of pros and cons. I think for me, I would probably go for the job with the higher pay and better benefits for now, purely for the financial help you would get with fertility treatments (and you did mention that you would hopefully be able to be fairly flexible in terms of going to your appointments). At the stage of life I'm in at the moment, I think that would outweigh the added stress that may come with the new role, and then if I fell pregnant, I would review my situation again after maternity leave. I appreciate that doesn't really help too much as it's not me! What does DH think about it?

Ask, at the moment we're not entirely sure. I'm currently going through tests to see if I'm eligible for egg share IVF. I had blood test 3 weeks ago to test for various things including chromosomal abnormalities, so we're hoping to get those results back in a couple of weeks. DH and I also had to have compulsory counselling (a requirement by the UK fertility treatment regulatory body), which we did this week. If the results come back all clear, it's very possible that we could begin this side of Christmas. Feels strange even thinking about it!


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## Fluffycookie

@Belle
Glad to hear your interview went well! :) I had to make a similar decisions jobwise (how many projects to take on starting autumn) and I decided I feel more comfortable with less stress, even if that means less money. It completely depends on what you feel comfortable doing - maybe try and picture what your life will be like in both situations for a few months and see how you feel about those scenarios?

@Ask
I don't think I gained any weight on clomid (but it was only 50mg), but when I took the progesterone for 10 days to break my 89-day-cycle, I definitely felt a lot more hungry and put on some weight. I think changes in hormones just tend to do that to a lot of women - adding insult to injury if you ask me!

AFM: Updates can be read in more detail in the journal I share with steph, but I think I might be leaving this group soon. I tested positive yesterday morning! :) I want to wait for the blood tests next week so I know for certain - should know by the end of next week. I hope it's ok if I stay here until then?
Just in case this is goodbye: You ladies have been such a support to me, I can't even say! I was really worried when I realised there was something wrong and so many girls get bad side effects on clomid. Being able to talk to other women who have been through it made me feel a lot more at ease. Thank you for being there and helping me through this and I wish you all buckets and buckets of baby dust!!!


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## Ask4joy

Congrats Fluffy! I had a feeling this was it for you. Best wishes!


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## BelleNuit

Congrats Fluffy! 

Thanks Steph and Fluffy for your feedback! Steph its really funny that you pointed out that I could re-evaluate after a maternity leave because of course I could. I could re-evaluate after a year and if I hate it, there is room for lateral movement there. To be honest I hated my current job for the first year (like HATED it lol), and now I'm feeling reluctant to leave, so I think any job has some level of growing pains associated with it until you get into the swing of things. 

It kind of struck me though that I never even considered that I could be taking a mat leave after a year at this new job (if I got it and took it). I actually don't believe I'll ever get pregnant. I feel like I'm just going through the motions with planning for IVF and once its done I'll just proceed with child free living. Its been 20 months and I've never been pregnant.


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## OnErth&InHvn

3 high temps so i think i Od on the day of + opk and trigger, not the next day. 

------------
Belle- HUGS HUGS HUGS. Thats a hard reality to get to and accept. 

Fluffy, i hope you dont leave.


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## Fluffycookie

Thank you Ask, Belle and Earth! :)

@Belle
:hugs: It might feel like going through the motions but the reality is, there is just no knowing what will work until it does! No matter how much you are prepared for something to work or not to work, you just won't know until you get there - and i have everything crossed that you will get there soon!

@Earth
I'd love to stay and keep following your stories (I want to be there for your BFPs too!), but I thought this was supposed to be of a strictly-TTC-only group? Having been in this limbo for long enough myself, I wouldn't want to make it any harder for anyone than it already is. If everyone felt okay with it, I would of course stay and simply keep any pregnancy-related talk (if my blood draw next week confirms it, hoping and praying!) out of here - but I would hate nothing more than making things harder for anyone, so please just let me know how everyone feels! :) In case you'd rather keep this a strictly-TTC-ladies-only group, I can of course always be found in steph's journal still. Rooting for all of you, no matter what you say about me continuing to post here! :)


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## Ask4joy

Fluffy you're right...we moved this thread over to the ltttc board because seeing pregnancy tickers and ultrasound photos of those who already got their bfps was triggering...for me at least. Whenever I see that stuff I think...where would my baby (babies) be in their development if I hadn't miscarried? And it stings. I'm hoping we can join you soon in the pregnancy boards!


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## BelleNuit

Thanks Fluffy. There are certainly many women on this forum who are pregnant after going through infertility who are able to offer kind and sensitive support to those currently going through infertility. There are certainly many of them who support me on my journal and I am so very thankful for them. 

The challenge is for women going through infertility, there is a very real chance that they might not be successful. I think it can be difficult for some women who are pregnant to be sensitive to that. We might not be as lucky as you. I've never been pregnant. But I am grieving my children who might never get to exist because there is something wrong with me and nobody can figure out what. The other night I had a horrible nightmare of this dead, deformed child who kept staring at me from the passenger side window of my car. I couldn't get away. I woke up screaming. There are so many difficult, intense and painful emotions associated with infertility. If you can be sensitive to that and avoid offering placating support (it will happen eventually, just keep trying, you never know, it will happen when you least expect it etc.) then by all means stay. We can use all the support we can get.


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## Fluffycookie

@Ask
:hugs: no worries, I understand completely. I don't mind just reading here, lurking and waiting my time to jump out and shout congratulations for you when it's time! :)

@Belle
You are very right, I found the uncertainty the worst part as well. You can't come to terms with things either way or patiently wait for a certain time - you just don't know what is going to happen (next or ever). I think as long as there is anyone here who feels more comfortable with keeping it currently-TTC-only, I want to respect that :) and I would hate to say something insensitive later on simply by being out of touch... I will "lurk" for now and maybe if there is a question I see pop up that I could offer some insight to, or if I want to reach out to any of you, I will do so via private message. :)

In any case, anyone can find me and steph in our shared journal! :hugs: Big hugs to all of you again, I continue to think of you and hope for you! I will always be really grateful to you for making this difficult time a little easier!


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## Ask4joy

Fluffy - I don't mind if you pop in if you don't mind being a little extra sensitive! :) I know when I got my bfps all the pain of TTC disappeared and was easy to forget! Well, not after the third bfp...I was on pins and needles. Please don't think you are banned from this thread!


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## BelleNuit

I do have this fear that I will be the last person on this board still trying LOL.


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> I do have this fear that I will be the last person on this board still trying LOL.

i will be the last. Im always the last. 10yrs of this and threads/people/groups come and go and im left there. Even THIS group- this is my last Clomid cycle and then nothing. Theres no plan B or C.


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## TTCBean

Started 150mg today. Anyone start today?


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## BelleNuit

Welcome Bean. Despite the name of the thread, other than Earth I don't think there is anyone left here taking clomid or femara lol. (I could be wrong though!?). The good news is that we've seen lots of success for many ladies on this thread. Some of us have moved on to IUI/IVF or are waiting to start. Is this your first clomid cycle? 

I'm sorry Earth, its a tough realization to know that you don't have a plan for further intervention. I totally respect your decision though, and if I were in your shoes I would be doing the same thing!

I'm keeping my FX but so far there doesn't seem to be any spotting today! Hopefully I've seen the last of it! I've only had 8 days this month where I wasn't spotting or on AF. I'm over it lol


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## TTCBean

Thanks Belle, good to know. I'll try to find a more Clomid-active thread. I'm not new to Clomid - I have two babies from many many rounds. I had a failed round back in March and held off until today.


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## BelleNuit

Fair enough. You're welcome to stay, we've all taken these medications and can certainly relate to the SE and such.


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## OnErth&InHvn

You can stay! I took a break from Clomid and still stayed :) 

If i can get more Clomid, i MAY do another cycle but i dont know at this point.


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## Norelisa

Congratulations to bfps :))


I am very inactive these days, am back in France and taking care of my 4 yo nephew, who is a real pain to be honest. His mother doesn't give a rat's behind about him and my brother in law treats him like a little king, unfortunately it makes him a little brat :/ we thought my brother in law would get custody but two weeks ago his mom changed her mind and she managed to set up a trial in less than 10 days and she got custody.. We were hoping he would get it and we could help him raise his kid, but no.. The poor child :( his mom puts him to bed at 11pm, then she leaves her eldest daughter (11yo) babysit so she can go out clubbing with her new boyfriend. Crazy world. 

Today I'm cd8 and I did the bloodtest prescribed by my Dr - fsh, lh + 2 others, I can't read what's on the prescription so I guess I'll only know when the results are back tomorrow.. Friday I have ultrasound and hubby has to do his swimmers analysis..


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## Ask4joy

Good to hear from you Nore! Glad things are moving along for you! Sometimes I think people should have to pass a test to procreate...it's so unfair!

6dpo and lots of crampiness today. Of course I'm hoping it means something but most likely it doesn't. I thought I was over symptom spotting! Can't help but hope!


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## Norelisa

Ok, results arrived:

For cd8: 

1- Plasmatic Oestradiol : 67 pg/ml
2 - Plasmatic L.H: 6,88 mUI/mL
3 - Plasmatic FSH: 6,1 mUI/ml
4 - Plasmatic progesterone: 0,10 ng/ml

euh.. let the research begin, I guess? 

Hubby is still away, he has been in Germany since my return in France.. his mom is getting into monster mode again, I just can't handle it.. She does not see any mistakes made by herself, and she is against anyone who might say f.ex that vacations are ok, living in a city is ok etc.. I get sooo annoyed, she is the most closed minded person I think I ever met...!


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## BelleNuit

Hey Nore, I don't know too much about hormone levels for CD 8. Is there a reason why they didn't do CD 3? Thats usually what is done. I was going to say that your LH looks elevated, but for day 8 that might be normal. 

Sorry the MIL is getting so difficult to deal with again. Anyway you guys could move into your own place sometime soonish? 

AFM, I'm still on a break from ttc. I haven't seen any ewcm yet, but the spotting has at least stopped. Hopefully I'll ovulate like normal this cycle. I don't recall if I said here, but I had my interview on Friday and now I'm just waiting for a callback (if I get it). They finished interviews on Monday, so I wouldn't be surprised if they selected a candidate yesterday. In that case reference checks could be done today. They were wanting to make a decision and get back to us this week. I'm pretty nervous about it. I do really want this job as it sounds like things are falling apart at my work. People are getting fired, or quitting, and literally being escorted to the door, and these are people who are in high up leadership positions in the organization. Its a scary time. Makes you think (am I next...)


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## Norelisa

BelleNuit said:


> Hey Nore, I don't know too much about hormone levels for CD 8. Is there a reason why they didn't do CD 3? Thats usually what is done. I was going to say that your LH looks elevated, but for day 8 that might be normal.
> 
> Sorry the MIL is getting so difficult to deal with again. Anyway you guys could move into your own place sometime soonish?
> 
> AFM, I'm still on a break from ttc. I haven't seen any ewcm yet, but the spotting has at least stopped. Hopefully I'll ovulate like normal this cycle. I don't recall if I said here, but I had my interview on Friday and now I'm just waiting for a callback (if I get it). They finished interviews on Monday, so I wouldn't be surprised if they selected a candidate yesterday. In that case reference checks could be done today. They were wanting to make a decision and get back to us this week. I'm pretty nervous about it. I do really want this job as it sounds like things are falling apart at my work. People are getting fired, or quitting, and literally being escorted to the door, and these are people who are in high up leadership positions in the organization. Its a scary time. Makes you think (am I next...)

Yeah, I was also puzzled by the cd8 bloodwork, but that's what he wanted (the gynecologist). all the numbers seemed to be within the norm for follicular phase, but other than that I'm struggling to find info on what's expected on cd8 compared to cd3.. On Friday I will do an ultrasound so maybe that will shed some light on all of this. 

Yes, hopefully we will get our own place soon, but there are not that many flats (within our budget) available.. We are mostly looking around versailles.. It also doesn't help that hubby is on probation.. We will see, he'll be back soon ... 


Fingers crossed you'll get the job, it's probably worth the stability and future benefits if you get it :)


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## Ask4joy

Hey ladies - hoping you hear good news about the job offer Belle! Sounds like it might be a good time to make a change! Same thing was happening at DH's previous job before he got fired. Granted he was in a senior management position so his head was on the chopping block. But a bunch of people have quit since he got fired. It's never a good sign!

So one of my good friends got engaged on Monday and had a little get together to celebrate. She wanted all the girls to do a shot with her so I did and I had a few drinks after that. I ended up getting violently ill! I will spare you the details but was still sick as a dog all day yesterday and still feel queasy today. What the heck?! Of course you know what I'm secretly hoping although if I end up with a bfp I'll feel horrible for drinking...then again most docs say not to worry as long as you stop as soon as you get your bfp. Wishful thinking...


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## Ask4joy

Ok I just searched under my sink and to my surprise found a 2 pack of FRERs. I see a vvf line. I'm only 8dpo. Oh god...I'm terrified. I see my doctor tomorrow for the IVF consult so I'll ask for a blood test. The line is very faint. Could be a fluke.


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## steph1607

Ask can you post it? Or do you think it won't show up on a screen?


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## Ask4joy

I posted it in the pregnancy test forum! Can you look? I had to tweak it a bit to show up.


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## BelleNuit

I'm keeping everything crossed for you Ask!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle! Can't really even say I'm cautiously optimistic but of course still hopeful.


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## steph1607

Ask, on my phone I definitely think I see a line. However I'm definitely far from an expert in this department and have never had any positives of my own so would hate to give false hope if I'm just seeing things. Hopefully someone else on that thread will comment soon.


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## Norelisa

Ask, I have to admit - I only use this thread.. could you send me a link to where you posted the picture and I will have a look too. Fingers crossed really hard for you !!


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## Ask4joy

Here ya go: https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...po-vvf-line-frer-starting-ivf-next-month.html

Thanks for looking!


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## BelleNuit

I definitely see something there Ask. Good luck! I hope this is it!


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## Ask4joy

Thanks for taking a look! Good to know I'm not seeing things. We shall see...


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> Here ya go: https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...po-vvf-line-frer-starting-ivf-next-month.html
> 
> Thanks for looking!

I see something, fingers crossed !!


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## OnErth&InHvn

ask i see it plain as day!


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## Ask4joy

I'll update in the morning. Some of the ladies on the other thread think it could be an indent that the curved handled FRERs are apparently notorious for. It definitely has color though...can see it clearly now that it's dry. Hoping it wasn't a bad test!


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## red_head

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been around I have been massively struggling with the symptoms of clomid (so bean - yes I'm on it too! First month!). I'm 100% sure I ovulated, blood test tomorrow to confirm. I put on 7lbs over night (now gone luckily!) and was having hot flashes, headaches, nausea, it was awful!! I hope it's worth it. I've been so tired I've done nothing but work and sleep! 
Fluffy - massive congratulations - please stick around it's the hope I get from people like you that keeps me going! 
Bella - did you make a decision about your job? 
Ask - I commented on your thread but I absolutely see the line! 
Earth - I hope you don't mind me asking and this isn't insensitive - do you know why you can't try anything other than clomid? 
X


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## steph1607

Oh Red, sorry you have had such awful Clomid symptoms, they really are no fun at all. Hopefully they will all be worth it! Is today CD20 for you?


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## red_head

Thanks Steph :) I thought they'd be over once I had stopped taking them, then thought they'd go when I ovulated but they just keep coming! It's only a couple of days since 0 so hopefully they will calm now :) today is cd19 for me. When do you think I can start testing? It's our wedding anniversary on Monday so would be so nice to get a BFP for then! We've got friends stations over Sunday evening tho so might test Sunday before they arrive and hope for the best, but I'll only be about 6dpo (if I ovulated on the day I got the + so I think that might be too soon. Fingers crossed. 
It's so stupid how every month I get so hopeful, still!! I guess this month and the first clomid cycle it's understandable, but I just set myself up for disappointment! And then even if it's positive it probably just means more heartache. I don't know why I'm still doing this to myself!! X


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## steph1607

Unfortunately, Clomid seems to be a very funny drug and people experience such a variety of side effects on them. It can also take a little while for it to leave your system even after you have stopped taking them, fingers crossed the side effects will go in the next few days. It definitely would be a lovely anniversary present to get a positive on Monday, but at 7DPO, it's probably a little early. I'm no expert though mind you. I've seen very faint positives at 8DPO for some girls.

It's definitely not stupid to get your hopes up each month, only natural I think! I don't know of anyone who doesn't! It can be exhausting though can't it, going through hope, disappointment, hope, disappointment over and over. Fingers crossed for you, Red. Vent with us any time you want!


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## Ask4joy

Red - I am so sorry you are experiencing those SE. I also had a lot of those (plus huge mood swings). It is rough! Hang in there! 

Well it looks like the test yesterday was a dud. Took 2 more this morning - a curved handled AND a straight handled FRER and both negative. Such a cruel joke! I was skeptical though because I've never gotten a bfp before 10dpo. I think FR is switching back to the straight handles because that's all they had in Walmart yesterday and they've never had them before. Oh well! On to my IVF consult this afternoon!


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## steph1607

Eurgh Ask, how crap. I've heard such bad things about these FRERs. Hope this afternoon goes well - what are you hoping to get out of this appointment? A timeline of treatment etc. or is it a step before that?


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Steph. Super annoying. I think we will go over my meds and timeline etc. Plan is to call at the start of my next cycle and I'll be on birth control for the end (I think) of my next cycle then I'll start stimming after that. Getting close!


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## steph1607

Oh wow, it feels more real with each step doesn't it. My clinic put me on birth control as of yesterday, still got 2-3 months to go yet though I think. Should get my blood test results next Tuesday and then they can begin matching me with a recipient.


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## Ask4joy

I think the nurse said I'll be on BC for 10-14 days.

Are you planning to use donor eggs? What do you mean matching you?


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## steph1607

Sorry, that's not very clear!

No, if my blood test results come back clear then I will be doing an IVF egg-share. Quite common over here because it is a way of helping to reduce costs of treatment. You have to meet certain criteria in order to be eligible - such as being likely to produce a good number of eggs through stimulation. I would be the donor, and the recipient would be a lady who for whatever reason, cannot use her own eggs. It's obviously a pretty huge undertaking for various reasons. It's a legal requirement through the regulatory body to undergo counselling before treatment, which myself and my husband had last week. That was actually quite a nice experience, I think it only reiterated to us that we feel this is the right path for us at the moment.


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## red_head

I'm sorry Ask this process is cruel enough without crap products making it worse!! I never knew you had to go on birth control for IVF? That stuff messes me up too! How come they put you on it? Good luck to both of you!


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## red_head

Steph - sorry if I'm misunderstanding still - so are both you and a recipient going to get your eggs?


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## Ask4joy

Steph - that was my second thought after I replied! That may be something we try if it ends up that all my eggs are poor quality / chromosomally abnormal. That's great that you are willing to do that and that it reduces costs! You rock!

Red - thanks! It's such crap! I should call First Response and get a refund. Part of me is a little relieved it was just a bad test and I'm not having another CP. I feel annoyed but not heart broken. So they explained to us that they want to "shut down your ovaries" before stimulating them so they put you on BC so that they are inactive for a bit. I guess they must respond better to stims that way and it helps them really control the cycle.


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## steph1607

Sorry guys, must make an effort to make myself clearer :haha:

Red, yep, both me and a recipient would get my eggs. My husband's mum has actually donated eggs before (altruistically). We've already said that if we manage to have our own children before I become too old to donate eggs, I would do it again altruistically if I was able to. 

Ask, does the donor/recipient process work differently over there? I know for example that in the UK, donors can't be paid to donate (they can be reimbursed up to about £750 in expenses). And of course my egg-share would be anonymous. 

Yes, that's how I would explain the birth-control thing as well. I think it helps them state on a clean slate. Also, if you are doing a donor/recipient thing, both your cycles would need to be synchronised.


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## Ask4joy

I'm not sure how the egg donor stuff works here but it's something I'm going to ask my RE about today just so I'm informed. I know my clinic offers that service. Here's their info: https://www.rgidonoregg.com/


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## BelleNuit

Red I also had SE all cycle long after taking femara. It's because your hormones are all so much higher if you developed more than one follicle! I'm keeping my FX for you!

Ask I'm sorry, that seems like such a cruel joke! At least you have a solid plan moving forward!

Steph that's awesome that egg share might be an option for you. I don't think we can do that here in Canada. They decided that someone in the position of needing IVF but not being able to afford it wasn't able to provide consent because they are almost being forced into something they may not want to do (egg share) so that they can afford ivf. I think doing the psych exam is awesome and it does sound like it's the right choice for you!


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## red_head

Steph that's such a lovely thing you're doing! I hope that karma recognises that too and gives you lots of happiness and luck with your own journey! 
Thanks Belle that's a good sign then hopefully :)


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## steph1607

I read your link, Ask. I think it's really good when clinics ensure that patients receive counselling.

Belle, I definitely get why that was the conclusion they came to. I completely understand why some women would be so desperate to have a child that they go through the egg share without actually being comfortable with it. It's definitely a bit of a minefield. Husband and I feel very good about our decision, but at the same time (like with most things I guess), you can never truly know how you will react to it until you go through it. Of course one of the things the clinic and the counsellor kept asking was "have you thought about how you would feel if it worked for the recipient and not for you." And yes, of course we have thought about it, but there is no way of knowing until it happens unfortunately. It's up to the donor anyway whether or not they choose to find out if a donation resulted in a pregnancy/birth of a child. Our thoughts on finding out at the moment are that we would probably be happy to find out if we got pregnant, but if we didn't, we wouldn't ask! You don't have a set time-frame to find out anyway - you could ask years down the line.

Ah, this is all such an emotional roller coaster! It's strange, at the start of our journey I was happy as larry, then when I found out we had problems, I was just a bit of a mess permanently. Now, I almost feel a sense of acceptance and I'm not entirely sure where it's come from. I really want a child, but like you've said before Belle, sometimes I think I've made peace with myself that it just might not happen. 

I think that's actually the first time I've said (written!) that to anyone. My husband is one of those Oh So Positive types, so I don't think he would really get that at the moment. He would be more inclined to say that we can just keep trying because it will happen at some point! But the way I've been thinking recently is a lot more calm and rational I think. Some people are very mentally strong. Me, I'm not sure how many times I could go through a treatment like IVF and keep getting disappointed. My thoughts at the moment are do the first IVF, and if it doesn't work take time to gather and think things through before rushing in to anything else.

Sorry, I think this post managed to turn into a bit of self-therapy ramble!!


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## BelleNuit

Steph it totally is an emotional minefield! I think that is true for so much for infertility. I think for myself I really needed to make peace with the idea of child free living so that I could go through with infertility treatment and survive it if it didn't work out. My DH is also one of those oh so positive types (denial). But last night for the first time he admitted that he didn't know if we would ever be able to have children or not. Before he always just would give a firm "yes we will have kids." 

I think its really great steph that you have the option to find out the outcome of the egg share at any point that you want. I think I'd be inclined to wait until after my baby was born. I've also thought about being an egg donor, and if I wasn't in the position of going through infertility myself I probably would have. At this point since we're unexplained I don't know that they would take my eggs lol. 

Well saw a bit of fertile cm today. So I know I should actually O this round. We're still just going to avoid things for now. If I don't get this job we'll get back into casually trying in September (just BDing around the times when I see ewcm). We'll do the full 3 month of naturopathy treatment before doing our last IUI.


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## red_head

I find that really hard to think about. Hubby seems to have this mentality that we will keep trying until we succeed, but I don't know how many more losses I can handle. We spoke about it the other day and he said it just doesn't effect him as much, because he doesn't physically see or feel it, so it's not the same experience, and he is just focused on the end result, constantly positive. And he doesn't have to go through all the hormones and side effects of treatment (other than putting up with my mood swings). It is hard for him, but he admits he doesn't get how hard it is for me. It's put a bit of strain on us because I want to start thinking about the possibility of fostering with a view to adopt, but he just isn't there yet, as he won't admit we may not have a biological child. I just don't know how long he expects us to do this for!!


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## Ask4joy

Red - I could have written that myself. I think it's just a lot harder for men to understand what we are going through because yes like you said it's just different for them. I used to think it was because my DH already has two biological children but after talking with you all I realize maybe it's just a male thing. My DH is not ready to consider adoption as an option. He did say that he is willing to do whatever it takes to have a family together. But like the rest of your DHs he is the eternal optimist.


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## Ask4joy

So I said I didn't feel sad but now I do feel sad. I took a Walmart cheapie as a comparison and got this evap. Why why why must these tests mess with my head!?!
 



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## BelleNuit

Run some water over the test. If the line stays it's not an evap


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## mnelson815

^wss :)


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## Ask4joy

Went back to look at it minutes after I posted that pic and the color was gone - just a blank line! Ran it under water and looked the same. Def an evap if there's no color, right? Why do I do this to myself?
 



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## BelleNuit

Ask I've had the same thing happen to me, with lines disappearing. It is so disappointing. No color in that line :( what dpo are you? Maybe it's still early?


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## Ask4joy

I'm only 9dpo. Only reason I tested yesterday was because I had gotten so sick and thought maybe? Why can't someone design a test that is fool proof? I guess the digitals are but they aren't very sensitive.


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## red_head

Don't give up hope. I can see a line in everything, it's super early. If it comes up within the time, I don't think it's an evap? Surely running water over it would dilute and make the line disappear? Ive got my fingers crossed for you x


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## OnErth&InHvn

ive been reading and lurking, Ask, that really stinks! I was so hopeful!!

I still have trigger in me, 8dpo, which is normal. My temps are lining up to last month and i have hardly any side effects or symptoms, which is WEIRD.


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Earth. Who knows but I sure know that I'll never buy those curved handled FRERs again!

My IVF consult went well...everything is becoming so real! I was shocked to hear that my AMH is 4.8 and FSH is 6.4 (they were 3.1 and 8.4 a year ago). Could all my fertility diet / herbs / vitamins be helping?! Anyway, she said that while my dx is kinda grey and we can't really know how my eggs are affected, the fact that my egg reserve is excellent is in our favor. They expect to retrieve 16 eggs. FX! 

I'll call on cd 1 and will start birth control on cd 3...eek it's so close!

Earth - are you testing out the trigger?


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## BelleNuit

Thats fantastic new Ask and those are great numbers! You've had a couple pregnancies pretty close together so I definitely think the supplements and such have been helping!

My hormone levels have stayed pretty much exactly the same from this time as compared to a year ago. So all the supplements I've taken have done squat LOL. My naturopath sent me my treatment plan. She has me on a bunch of herbs that are supposed to balance out hormones (including vitex and maca) as well as inositol. I read on one of the bottles that you shouldn't take it during pregnancy, so we are going to hold off on ttc altogether while i'm on these herbs. She has me on them for 2 months, so I guess we'll re-evaluate at that time. Otherwise I fell off the healthy eating bandwagon for 2 days due to stress. But I'm back at it today!


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## steph1607

Wonderful news Ask! And wow, it is so close now! So you'll start birth control on CD3 and then what does the rest of the time line look like?


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## Norelisa

steph1607 said:


> Wonderful news Ask! And wow, it is so close now! So you'll start birth control on CD3 and then what does the rest of the time line look like?

Yes, please share, I guess we will soon be heading that way too.. we just need to "get into the system - do the iui's and then..." first.. I went for my CD12 ultrasound and the lady was really nice and said that everything looked great.. monster in law was there with me (not into the ultrasound room though) so now she knows.. I'm normal! ha!! :dohh: 

We are looking at one or two flats today, and one tomorrow.. at Versailles.. I still don't feel like we have any real pressure on us to move, which is kinda nice, however it might result in me attacking my monster in law, haha:) we do have a deadline though, my cats will be ready to travel from November 15th and forwards - I want to be settled in by then!

I also taken up on the same job I did back in Bangkok, helping people settling in as a Destination Consultant- I already work with my first two clients and the the third family arrives in October. It's really fun and I don't mind that its not full time.. :)


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## steph1607

Nor, that's great! In fact your whole post sounded lovely and positive! I was surprised to hear that your MIL went with you to the appointment! Maybe your relationship with her will start to improve a bit more?

Exciting that you are looking at some flats too, and doubly good that you're don't have a huge pressure to move out.

Sounds like a very fun job indeed!

Bank Holiday coming up for us on Monday so very much looking forward to a three day weekend! Is that the same for anyone else?


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## Ask4joy

Nore - that is great that your MIL heard that you're "normal" lol. I can only imagine how rough it is living with her. A good test in patience! Like Steph said, hopefully your relationship will improve. Sounds like things are going well for you!

Steph - thanks! So I'll be on birth control for 2 weeks and then about a week after I'll start stimming. It's all so close all of a sudden! I'll probably stim for about 10 days then I'll have my retrieval. Then I'll have to wait 6-8 weeks for the PGS testing and then the transfer. In a way it's kinda nice that I'll have a break in between retrieval and transfer.

I also asked my doc about the egg donor program and feel better having a plan B. DH and I had a great talk! We talked about donor eggs vs donor embryos (he's open to both) and talked about how many rounds of IVF we would try before moving on to donor. Our tentative plan is that we will do 1 round of IVF and if they get a bunch of eggs/embryos and ALL are abnormal we will move on to donor. If the results are mixed but for some reason it doesn't take we may try again with my own eggs one more time. Even if we go the donor route we will continue to try (or ntnp) in the future and could end up with a bio child too, but the pressure would be off.

One other interesting thing - my doctor said that while DH's chromosomal inversion is considered a normal variant in the population, there is some research that suggests it may increase miscarriage rates. She seems to think that because we both have wonky chromosomes we haven't gotten lucky yet. Hopefully IVF will do the trick!


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## Norelisa

It all went well until lunch with mother and brother-in law... Oh my.. He is as closeminded as his mum... my gosh.. He is against anything new, against homosexuals (Imagine, they might get married! oh my, life as we know it will end! - grrrr), vaccinations are only to make us stupid and infertile and whatnot and everything new is a step towards hell.. As French is not my first language it can be quite heated, and I cannot even find the right words, it just bugs me a lot, and I think I have to talk to my hubby about it. If my hubby start thinking along those lines I frankly cannot take it.. Too much conspiracy talk, the big bad US and Freemasons and whatnot.. I am seriously shaking! Apparently the women where sooo much freer before, and so and so... he goes.. oh my gosh.. I need to get out from here!


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## Ask4joy

OMG Nore I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut! My ex was Turkish and I lived with him and his parents in Turkey for 6 months 10 years ago. His parents were actually so sweet and lovely but in general, living in a small Turkish town, I felt like I had gone back in time. Women were treated so differently...especially from the super liberal town I grew up in! I guess that might be why it didn't work out! I don't blame them for looking down on the US right now though...I mean, Trump?! The American people elected Trump?! Dear god. Actually Hillary won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote (it's a very confusing system). I'm so embarrassed to call myself an American right now. #notmypresident


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## Norelisa

Ask4joy said:


> OMG Nore I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut! My ex was Turkish and I lived with him and his parents in Turkey for 6 months 10 years ago. His parents were actually so sweet and lovely but in general, living in a small Turkish town, I felt like I had gone back in time. Women were treated so differently...especially from the super liberal town I grew up in! I guess that might be why it didn't work out! I don't blame them for looking down on the US right now though...I mean, Trump?! The American people elected Trump?! Dear god. Actually Hillary won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote (it's a very confusing system). I'm so embarrassed to call myself an American right now. #notmypresident

Thanks for the support...! :) Brother in law is actually PRO Trump:blush: I really can't stand his mother and brother in law.. They have a very old fashioned world view where everything was "better before".. He even admitted he doesn't know any people who are homosexuals.. I was like, well, you don't have to marry a guy you know.. Then I got peppered by his view on how the "gay lobby" has pushed so much down on us.. I almost lost it then... same with the vaccinations, he supposedly regrets having vaccinations for his children.. and apparently in Germany all is well though they don't vaccinate (according to him).. I seriously need to talk with hubby, I don't want children growing up with these kind of twisted views... grump...


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## Ask4joy

Not surprised he supports Trump then. He'd fit right in with all the Trump supporters here. The "alt right" (aka white supremacists). I better stop before I piss someone off...

You will have the most influence over your kids - don't worry!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Ask4joy said:


> Thanks Earth. Who knows but I sure know that I'll never buy those curved handled FRERs again!
> 
> My IVF consult went well...everything is becoming so real! I was shocked to hear that my AMH is 4.8 and FSH is 6.4 (they were 3.1 and 8.4 a year ago). Could all my fertility diet / herbs / vitamins be helping?! Anyway, she said that while my dx is kinda grey and we can't really know how my eggs are affected, the fact that my egg reserve is excellent is in our favor. They expect to retrieve 16 eggs. FX!
> 
> I'll call on cd 1 and will start birth control on cd 3...eek it's so close!
> 
> Earth - are you testing out the trigger?

Yep, testing it out.


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## red_head

Ask I think pissing that type of person enough for them to either leave or reconsider their horrific mindset is a good thing! Norlisa you must be a saint! 

I had my 21 day bloods today - they can never get anything out of me, my doctors surgery won't even try now, I have to go the hospital, and the mean nurse didn't listen to me (I told her I was difficult and precious nurses have recommended I tell them to use a butterfly needle from my wrist) but she refused, and so now I have bruises up and down my arms and hands, and guess what else... a tiny mark from a butterfly needle in my wrist! So irritating as I hate blood tests now and nearly faint I get so anxious about them! Sorry to moan! 
Steph I get the bank holiday too! So nice as it's our wedding anniversary Monday too - we're away for a week so won't be on here much. I keep meaning to ask what pier it is in your picture?


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## steph1607

Eurgh Red, that sounds like a nightmare. Why some medical staff don't trust you to know your own body is beyond me!

Ah wonderful, happy anniversary, where are you off to?

It's Hastings pier &#10084;


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## red_head

I thought it was! I live in Hastings! Do you? 
We're just off to Gloucester glamping. I can't wait! I'm a bit worried as there's a hot tub and I'm not sure whether to go in it or not! I know your not supposed to during pregnancy but it's too early to tell if I am (even if highly unlikely) and I don't want to waste it if I'm not!


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## steph1607

No way!!! What are the chances?! I grew up in Hastings and all my family are there (going there this evening actually), but DH an I currently live in Hertfordshire- moved here a couple of years ago after I graduated. We hope to move back to Sussex in a few years though. Wow I really can't believe that!

Hubby went to Gloucester for uni actually- I'm sure you'll have an amazing time. I'm afraid I don't know a great deal about the whole hot tub side of things though?


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## Ask4joy

We've avoided hot tubs since we've been TTC as the high temps can reduce sperm count / quality.


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## BelleNuit

Ya, I told my poor DH that even a bath wasn't allowed (like a year ago haha). Honestly it blows my mind sometimes that we're still trying. (Of course we aren't right this minute, but you know what I mean). Its weird because I know I'm fertile right now (plenty of ewcm so I'm sure I'll O this go around). But we're not doing anything, no trying at all happening here! I think it would be a bad idea actually because I'm not sure if any of the herbs I'm on are contraindicated for pregnancy. So we'll just continue to not try while I'm doing the herb thing (sounds like it'll last 2-3 months). Thats fine. I need a break anyway. Then I can get back into the swing of things and will feel a renewed energy for ttc. 

Still waiting on AMH and adrenal testing to come in. Blah. I got the AMH blood test done at the beginning of July. Not sure how long it'll take.


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## OnErth&InHvn

I dont think im pregnant this cycle.. 

On to cycle 5 i guess. 

75mg, 100, 100, 100, 100 + Trigger shot. LAST cycle TTC. :shrug:


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## BelleNuit

Got my AMH results it was 2.3. Which I think is still in the normal range, but at like the lower end of normal. I think it means I'm aging and that its good that we started TTC when I was relatively young lol. I wouldn't have been one of those lucky ladies who is super fertile at 35. I wasn't even fertile at 26 :/ Lame. lol 

I've also been on supplements and have made lifestyle changes for the past year and I've seen no difference in my lab levels (FSH and E2 were the same as they were a year ago). My diet still wasn't fantastic during this time. So for what its worth, if anyone is thinking they can use supplements as a substitute for a good diet you're just fooling yourself LOL. I did that for a year and it got me nowhere. 

ugh, and I don't think I got that new job. haven't heard anything back. At least I tried and didn't let my infertility hold me back (even if the outcome was the same). i still have a pretty good job. 

I'm so tired of being infertile.


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## red_head

Steph that is so weird! Small world :)

I just popped in mid glamping trip! At our wedding we did trees booklets on each table for the guests to fill in, who they were, date ideas, funniest thing they'd seen during the day etc. We open one each year, correlated the table number to the anniversary. Anyway, last nights one was written by hubby's aunt who sadly passed away which was very emotional anyway, and then on the question about how we'll be spending the evening of the anniversary she'd written changing nappies! I could not stop balling my eyes out! Poor husband! 
I think I may have had a squinter in a test strip this morning. Probably just me being crazy (as if I could be doing pregnancy tests at 7/8po in the middle of a camp!) but if you could cross your fingers for me that would be very kind! I can't get it to show on a photo but hubby can see something super faint too. I honestly don't know what I'm more afraid of, being pregnant and losing another pregnancy, or not being pregnant!! 
X


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## red_head

Belle I'm sorry you're having a hard time. Life can be so unfair. I'm just hoping this is all to teach me patience and skills I will need when I do become a parent! Xx


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## BelleNuit

Oh Red I would have balled my eyes out at that too!

I was out visiting friends (who don't know we've been struggling or ttc at all). And they made a joke about how impatient I am with kids and that there was probably a good reason I wasn't a mother. That stung! 

I'm keeping my FX extra tight for you!!


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## red_head

Ouch! That's a nasty thing to say to anyone!! I hope you didn't think I meant what I said like that! I just know I'm really impatient and try to look for something positive this process has taught me. That being said I don't think I've actually improved any!! Lol! I do worry that all this is happening because I'm not good enough to be a mother. That the universe just doesn't think I cut it. But then, I work for social services and I see how some people treat their kids. There is no way I could be that bad. But the stupid fears and reasons for not getting pregnant, or staying pregnant keep haunting me!
I got a bfn this morning for sure so think yesterday must have been an evap. Still a few more days to go though, although I think we've failed again this cycle. My progesterone level was 41.2 at cd20 (as day 21 was a Saturday) so that's good at least (according to the receptionist anyway!). Although even more frustrating that despite that nothing good seems to be happening!


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## BelleNuit

No Red, I didn't take what you said negatively. 

I don't think there is any rhyme or reason why some people go through infertility and others don't. Its not to punish us. We're just unlucky.


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## Ask4joy

Belle - I think your AMH is normal for your age. I see your point though - you still have a decent egg reserve left and will probably respond well to IVF meds but that could be a bit different by the time you are in your mid to late 30s, so Better that you started trying in your 20s. Probably not a cause in and of itself of infertility since it's in the normal range.

So sorry someone said that to you...that would have ruined my day. People are freaking idiots sometimes. Argh! 

Speaking of idiots and bad luck...some lady banged into my Jeep while I was sitting in my parking spot in the hospital parking lot (for my cardiologist appointment) and cracked my bumper that I literally just got fixed 2 WEEKS AGO. What?!? The good news is my heart sounded good to the doc - he doesn't suspect any heart issues but I'll have to get an ultrasound done tomorrow to be sure. 

Red - have you had any repeat pregnancy loss testing done? Autoimmune, blood clotting, karyotype (your chromosomes)? 

15dpo and BFN so it's on to IVF! I'll start birth control in 6 days probably. Then about 3 weeks after that I'll start my stims then retrieval early October. Here we go!


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## BelleNuit

Wow Ask!!! It's all coming together so quickly!! I am so excited for you. I really do have high hopes that IVF will work for you, especially with PGS. 

Sorry about the car bumper. Talk about bad luck! Glad things are looking good with your heart though!

I agree with you, low reserve is not a cause of my infertility. It's probably implantation failure since I've never been pregnant. Hopefully it's just thin lining (easily treated) and not something immune related causing implant failure. 

Red, even the DNA fragmentation test could be useful in the case of recurrent miscarriage


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## steph1607

Wow Belle, what a thing to say to someone. I don't get people sometimes.

Red I know what you mean about feeling like it's happening because you're not good enough to be a mother. My nephew is 18 months now and when I first found out I had fertility problems (we told our families straight away), I felt like every time I was holding him and he cried, they were looking at me and thinking "yeah, I can see why she doesn't have kids". Irrational I know.

Ask, eek, that is so close now! How are you feeling about the prospect of starting treatment so soon?

AFM I finally got my call from the egg-share coordinator. All of my results bar one she was able to say are completely fine, there is just one (she may have said CSV but not convinced) that she needs a nurse to interpret tomorrow. I asked if I should be worried and she said not at all, it is simply that she is not a nurse and when those results come back they are never as simple as the other ones!

In other news, they have already matched me with someone... If my results are fine, the lead donor nurse will be back at work on Monday and will call the other lady then to ask if she wants to accept me based on my characteristics. I need to tell myself not to take it personally if she declines :haha:

If she accepts, she will need to go on the pill when her next cycle begins and whoever goes on it last (her in this case) needs to be on for a minimum of three weeks before treatment begins. So we are looking at end of September at the very earliest which is great because I would have had to ask for it to be pushed back to October or beyond anyway, based on my crazy September work schedule.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Im out this cycle.. oh well. 

Onto the next one and last one. 

I have kids and feel the same way Red, why cant i get pregnant?! What happened that i used to work and now i dont? I cant imagine the pain on top of that if you have no children. :( 

I think its great you can move to IVF an donors. I wish they were options. You all deserve it though!!! :hugs::hugs:


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## red_head

Hey all, I wrote a really long post but because I'm still at camp and have no signal it deleted! 
Anyway, haven't had any tests done - last miscarriage they asked whether I'd brought the loss in for analysis - I'd not even thought about it let alone been asked to. If it happens again I will - can they do some of those tests prior to a pregnancy? I'm not due at the fertility clinic for a couple months now but wondering if I can ask my GP to run them? 
Steph that all sounds fantastic - good luck!


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## Ask4joy

Belle - did you end up hearing anything about the job? Sometimes it takes awhile...

Earth - so sorry you are out. :hugs:

Red - yes, the testing can be done prior to pregnancy as it is simply about your body. Here is a link describing the different things you should have checked out. https://www.ivf.com/recurrent.html All my tests were normal except my karyotype (chromosomal analysis) which showed some of my cells are missing a second x. If an egg with a missing x gets fertilized by a female x sperm, it will be a full/classic Turner syndrome girl (98% of these pregnancies are miscarried). If my egg is missing an X and a male Y sperm fertilized it, the embryo is incompatible with life and will not survive. Hence IVF and PGS testing...hoping and praying I have some normal eggs! The fact that my egg reserve is high is a good sign as researchers believe the eggs that are missing an x die off early in life which is why most girls with Turners never even hit puberty on their own or go through early menopause. Crossing everything! Anyway, if you've had more than 2 losses I would definitely be aggressive about requesting further testing.

Steph - it's getting so close for you as well! I'm definitely excited but nervous too...hard not to think of all the "what ifs". Gotta practice my positive affirmations! 

Off to get my heart ultrasound done to make sure nothing is wrong!


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## BelleNuit

Steph, that happened quick! I hope everything proceeds smoothly!

Red I hate when I do that!

Ask I hope your ultrasound goes well!

I didn't get the job (got the call yesterday) but I'm not feeling upset about it. I had reservations and I do still have a pretty good job! 

Well next step for me is to go back to see my naturopath in a couple weeks, review the adrenal testing and get my treatment plan finalized.


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## red_head

Hey guys, back from holiday now - had to leave early last night as our dog injured himself :( he's alright though. 
Got another bfn this morning 11dpo and honestly I feel so devastated. It's so stupid but I really thought these pills would be a miracle cure and it upped my hope levels so much; I had double the chances and nothing :( I just don't know how many more months I can take of wishing and hoping and obsessing, but I don't know whether it'll be harder to face giving up. Argh!!! 
Thank you for your advice about the testing everyone - I will ask for these when I next go and really push for it. 
Ask I really hope this works for you! I can't believe it takes so long to get there, and now it all seems go go go! I have everything crossed! Have you had your ultrasound yet? Hope it went okay! Thank you for that link. Some of t really sounds applicable to me so I will get really pushy!
Belle what are the treatments for thin lining? I do worry about that as I always get late BFPs and wonder if it's an implantation problem. I hope it is something easily fixable for you! When will you find out? Sorry about the job, but if you're happy and settled where you are then it does seem like a good thing. 
Steph that all sounds fab I can't believe you matched so quickly! For sure don't take it personally if she declines there are so many factors to consider and she may just have changed her mind or something and it'll be nothing to do with you! I hope it all goes well though! And it's really good that it all fits in well for you! Seems like fate! :)
Earth sorry you're out :( I hope this month is your month.


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## BelleNuit

Hey Red, sorry to hear about your dog! Glad he'll be okay though!

I'm sorry the clomid didn't seem to work for you this time around. if its any consolation, ovulation induction drugs rarely work for women who already ovulate. I was on them for 5 cycles and nothing!

The treatments for thin lining involve increasing estrogen. But you have to be careful how you go about that because to just provide estrogen will decrease FSH and will effect egg growth. The docs prescribed femara to me to try to get me to release extra eggs (which produce more estrogen). My first monitored cycle with femara I got 3 follies, but lining was still only 6.5. Second cycle I added in acupuncture. I got 5-6 follies but only one was mature, lining was 8.5. So the more follies theory does work. I'm hoping my last IUI (whenever I get to it) will have 2-3 large follies and lots of little follies producing estrogen in the background so I get a nice thick lining again. 

The naturopath I'm seeing seems to think she can raise my estrogen levels naturally with diet and herbs. So thats what I'm doing now. 

So my dad sent me an article today about marijuana and sperm. Never thought I'd be talking to my dad about sperm. So weird.


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## red_head

I've got another squinter this morning, possibly an evap. Argh so frustrating! 

That's hilarious about your dad!!! So cringe but so sweet of him! I'm assuming the article says pot is bad for sperm?!


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## Ask4joy

Just waiting for AF to show...stopped progesterone almost 4 days ago and I've been spotting brown for 3 days now. The last 4 cycles using progesterone AF started exactly 3 days after stopping and I didn't have spotting (or 1 day max). Ugh. What is going on? I don't even feel like AF is coming...no cramping or back pain. Go figure right when I'm starting my IVF cycle I have a messed up cycle for the first time. Maybe I didn't actually ovulate and started progesterone too soon? I had a +opk and temp rise before I started it. And yes, bfn yesterday. I'm so confused and frustrated!


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## red_head

Hey ASk, I'm sorry I'm don't really know much about progesterone so can't offer any help :( hope it works itself out though. I know body does the meanest things so maybe it's just reacting to your IVF cycle beginning x


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## OnErth&InHvn

I didn't feel af coming this past cycle. Normally I do. I usually bleed 5 days after stopping p4. Cd12, then cd16 af. 

AF came this morning. Start 75mg clomid tomorrow, then 75, then onto the normal 100.

It's been so crazy. Our bunny was "spayed" Thursday but the vet couldn't find a uterus. ..meaning she was born without one! Rare but happens. She wasn't eating or pooping so we had to go to er vet. Still waiting on her to poop or eat.


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## Norelisa

Hoping all the best for your bunny, OnEarth :)


I think I've had the worst birthday today.. Well, not really bad, just a bit frustrating.. It could get better tonight.. At least we are moving to Paris tonight.. No longer monster in law. We had lots of family over for lunch since the nephew will go to his mom tonight. My hubby bought cakes for my birthday but everyone thinks it was for nephews last day, so no one knew/knows it's my birthday.. Weird.. 

Otherwise, I hope that hubby and I will get a bit more quality time now that we no longer live with his mom. I'm 6dpo and he wants to wait until next week before doing his swimmer-analysis. We are just waiting for my name to be added to his social security card, then we can start iui /ivf. Tbh I don't think iuis will do much for us, so I'm very curious to follow what you girls are doing !:)


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## Ask4joy

Hope your bunny in alright, Earth! 

Nore - happy birthday!! I'm sorry you are feeling down. Kinda weird that your DH didn't tell them it was your birthday? I hope your bday improved a bit! That's great news that you are moving out of your husband's family's house! I'm sure that will help a lot.

AF started yesterday so I'll be starting birth control tomorrow. My saline sonogram is scheduled for a week from Tuesday and then our consent signing where we sign all the paperwork, I have an ultrasound and they teach me how to use my meds is on the 18th of this month. Really going to try to keep my cool and stay as calm and relaxed as possible this next month or so!


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## Norelisa

I thought it would get better but now we are staying for dinner :( we could have taken a train and then had dinner but nooo.. Better to have monster in laws re-re-rewarmed rice and other leftovers from the past week... I'm fuming.. If things don't improve before Christmas then I'm moving back to Norway ! I just hope really hard it's because of the family presence... 
My brother in law understand it though, so hopefully he can get some sense into my husband :)


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## Norelisa

Oh and thank you for the birthday wish Ask :) got a little caught up with birthday blues, only 2h left.. And finally in Paris.. :)


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## red_head

Norelisa happy late birthday! Sorry you had a bad day :( hopefully Paris is making up for it! 
Ask I bet this is the only time you're glad to see AF! Good luck keeping cool and calm! You must be so nervous and excited! I'll keep everything crossed for you! 
Earth - good luck with this round :) and I hope your bunny is okay! So weird about its uterus! 

AF decided to spring up on me mid sex last night so that was just perfect! But I'm a bit glad as I knew it was another dud cycle so fingers crossed for this one now! 
X


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## Ask4joy

Sorry about AF Red! Definitely not how you want to welcome her! TMI but I was getting freaked out that AF was a little late so we BDed and she showed a few hours later lol. And yes, first time in a long time I've been happy to see her! Starting birth control tonight.

Found out last night that one of my best friends found out she's pregnant a week after she got engaged (they've been trying for maybe 5 months). And DH just pointed out that our neighbor is pregnant. Why do I have to be in the minute percentage of infertile people? Ugh. 

I'm definitely excited about starting IVF but wish I didn't have to wait 2 months after the retrieval for the transfer. Good thing I love Fall.


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## smurphy90

Hi everyone!

I'll officially be hoping on the Clomid bus at the end of the week, for my first round. Just as we had our first appointment with an RE on Aug 21st, I ovulated for the first time in 5 months (go figure) so we've had to wait a couple weeks for AF to show.

I'm starting on 50mg days 5-9. A bit nervous, honestly, because I have bipolar disorder and I'm really hoping any side-effects from Clomid don't make my mood swings unbearable. Fingers crossed.


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## Ask4joy

Welcome Sara! I also have a mood disorder and I will be honest clomid was pretty brutal emotionally. Be gentle with yourself and give yourself lots of TLC! Try to avoid any potentially stressful or triggering situations. And if you start feeling out of sorts remind yourself it's just the clomid! If you don't mind me asking, are you continuing your bipolar medication while on clomid? I stopped my meds and it's been tough. I'm starting IVF now and hoping I don't lose my mind.


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## smurphy90

Ask4joy said:


> Welcome Sara! I also have a mood disorder and I will be honest clomid was pretty brutal emotionally. Be gentle with yourself and give yourself lots of TLC! Try to avoid any potentially stressful or triggering situations. And if you start feeling out of sorts remind yourself it's just the clomid! If you don't mind me asking, are you continuing your bipolar medication while on clomid? I stopped my meds and it's been tough. I'm starting IVF now and hoping I don't lose my mind.

I am continuing my bipolar med with on Clomid. I take Lamictal, which is a big blessing in that it has very few side effects and is safe for TTC and pregnancy. It just affects folic acid absorption, so I have a high-dose folic acid prescription (5mg/day).

Fortunately (well, sort of) I don't work because of the bipolar. It's been very well managed for the past year+ and I have very few episodes these days. But since we knew we'd be TTC, I didn't bother attempting to work since I want to be a sahm anyway. So... at least I can really take it easy while on Clomid since I don't have any day-to-day responsibilities. Fingers crossed it goes well. At least we're experienced in handling extreme moods and we know to expect it. I feel like we're prepared for it, should it happen. It would be wonderful if it didn't though!


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## Ask4joy

That's great! I think lamictal is what my mom takes. I was diagnosed with anxious depression and pmdd and was on Wellbutrin and zonegran (it's an epilepsy med used off label as a mood stabilizer). I haven't been dx as bipolar but think I may be somewhere on that spectrum - I also have a strong family history on my mother's side. 

I also left my job - I have been an elementary school teacher for the last decade. I also plan to be a sahm and was commuting 2.5 hours a day, sometimes more. It was ROUGH. I really wasn't doing well emotionally. I'm SO much more relaxed these days. With my recent diagnosis and starting IVF I've had SO many doctors appointments so not working is really the best decision for me right now. 

I am optimistic that you will conceive quickly on clomid! I've seen many PCOSers come and go on this thread! Good luck!


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## red_head

Ask I swear literally everywhere there are bumps and babies! It is so frustrating but I tell myself that because it's been so much harder and we want it so so much (and you can't want it in the same way until you've been through this) we are going to be better parents (and I know that's mean and very probably totally untrue but I tell myself it anyway because we need some reward for all this!!). I know what everyone else is doing is irrelevant and I don't want to be jealous but this is all just so bloody unfair!! But I really do have a feeling this is going to work for you, I'm sure you'll get a happy ending. 

Sara welcome and good luck for this cycle! Do you know why they've put you on for days 5 onwards? Is it because of your bipolar? I suffer with depression and anxiety, and have been quite emotional on it, but more tearful than cranky (and I can get cranky when I'm really deep in my black head!). Just keep an eye on yourself. 

I'm taking mine again from tomorrow (cd2). I really really hope this is our month! I read it's good to take it just before you go to bed as then you miss most of the symptoms - it might have worked but I have nothing to compare against! I also found most of symptoms came more around ovulation (in the week before and a few days after) than when I took them anyway.


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## smurphy90

red_head said:


> Sara welcome and good luck for this cycle! Do you know why they've put you on for days 5 onwards? Is it because of your bipolar? I suffer with depression and anxiety, and have been quite emotional on it, but more tearful than cranky (and I can get cranky when I'm really deep in my black head!). Just keep an eye on yourself.

I have no idea what her reasoning was for which days she's having me take it. I didn't ask.

I also have really bad anxiety issues, and am also taking (and staying on) an anti-anxiety. I guess we'll see how it all goes at the end of the week.

When you have side-effects, especially mood related ones, how quickly do they come on and how long do they tend to stay?


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## red_head

It's hard to judge really; I always get quite extreme pms, it's fairly similar ish - I just start crying when I see something sad on the news or think too deeply about something! It's hard to say really as I've had to work really hard on my problems (at the beginning of the year I didn't leave my house at all for a few months as things got so bad). I've really really pushed myself to get better without meds so I do still have days when I'm not coping as well so it's hard to know whether the clomid has made that worse. It's quite nice to have something to blame too though - I can tell myself it's okay, the clomid is making me think/feel this, and push myself past it (ish!).


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## Ask4joy

For me, the side effects started the 2nd or 3rd day on clomid and died down a bit after ovulation but were definitely much better after I finished the cycle and was off it.


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## Norelisa

smurphy90 said:


> Ask4joy said:
> 
> 
> Welcome Sara! I also have a mood disorder and I will be honest clomid was pretty brutal emotionally. Be gentle with yourself and give yourself lots of TLC! Try to avoid any potentially stressful or triggering situations. And if you start feeling out of sorts remind yourself it's just the clomid! If you don't mind me asking, are you continuing your bipolar medication while on clomid? I stopped my meds and it's been tough. I'm starting IVF now and hoping I don't lose my mind.
> 
> I am continuing my bipolar med with on Clomid. I take Lamictal, which is a big blessing in that it has very few side effects and is safe for TTC and pregnancy. It just affects folic acid absorption, so I have a high-dose folic acid prescription (5mg/day).
> 
> Fortunately (well, sort of) I don't work because of the bipolar. It's been very well managed for the past year+ and I have very few episodes these days. But since we knew we'd be TTC, I didn't bother attempting to work since I want to be a sahm anyway. So... at least I can really take it easy while on Clomid since I don't have any day-to-day responsibilities. Fingers crossed it goes well. At least we're experienced in handling extreme moods and we know to expect it. I feel like we're prepared for it, should it happen. It would be wonderful if it didn't though!Click to expand...

Hi and welcome:) I used to take lamictal for epilepsy, but the neurologist thought I'm good enough to stop as I've only had 3 fits since 2007..:)


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## BelleNuit

Welcome smurphy. Did I read right that you're taking the clomid 5-9? I think that is commonly done with pcos, it helps to create one good egg. The docs figure the cause of the infertility is the lack of ovulation. Once that's fixed women with pcos typically get pregnant at the normal rates as fertile women. Good luck!

I second what red has said Ask, I have a feeling IVF will work fairly well for you. We know implantation is not the issue, it's just a matter of finding the right egg!

AFM it was a tough weekend emotionally visiting family. I'd like nothing more than to stay home today. If my eyes are still puffy from crying I just might


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## smurphy90

Belle - Yes, I'm taking it CD 5-9. Follicle growth is definitely my problem. After they're mature I don't seem to have issues ovulating. I think my doctor is planning to give me a trigger shot anyways. I'm not positive, though. I've never been pregnant before so we don't know if implantation is an issue. DH's sperm analysis came back okay, but not great. His morphology was 2.5% normal, where they wanted to see 4%+ and his concentration and motility were normal, but just barely. We're having another spermiogram done in October, so this cycle will just be Clomid. She said we'll probably try IUI if his sperm comes back similarly next time. She said if it comes to it, she's pretty sure IUI would work really well for us.


I'm so sorry you have a rough time with your family visit. :( I hope you feel better as the day goes on.


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## BelleNuit

I was just going to say that IUI would work really well if there was a mild male factor as well. I think with morphology it can just take that little bit longer to find the right swimmer. Its more a matter of being "sub-fertle" rather than "infertile." I think there are very few people in the world who are truly "infertile" during their reproductive years... but of course that's the term they label us with... rather cruel I think. 

We have unexplained infertility, but I know a large part of the problem is my thin lining. Even on some of my IUI cycles it stayed pretty thin, so of course implantation is less likely. Hopefully that is all the problem is because in that case IVF should work really good for us because they will make sure that the lining gets nice and thick before transfer. I still have one IUI left, but we're waiting until November to try it as that will be after 3 months of naturopath treatments (I'm willing to try anything at this point lol).

I think I will take a personal day today. Its the first day back to school today which will be an emotionally charged day for me anyway. A good day to stay off of social media I think .


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## Ask4joy

Thanks Belle. I'm not convinced that there isn't an implantation issue since all of my CPs were so quick...could something be causing implantation to begin but fail? My saline sonogram next week should be able to identify if that's an issue. The fact that they know I have Mosaic TS makes it more likely that it's an egg quality issue. My RE thinks it may also be a result of my DH's chromosome inversion (she referenced a study that found higher miscarriages rates in people with his specific inversion).

I'm at the lab now for more bloodwork. Feel like I live at the hospital these days. They want to do further thyroid tests, test my lipids, renal function and some other tests. Thursday I have to go in for a kidney ultrasound. Thank god I'm not working.

A personal day sounds like a great idea...and yes all the "first day of kindergarten" posts on Facebook kill me. I should just deactivate my account.


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## BelleNuit

I think the only thing that causes implantation to fail is if there is a chromosomal abnormality. Between the Turners and the chromosome inversion it makes so much sense why you have had RPL. With PGS they will find you the right embryo and it will nestle in nice and tight. 

I think it is fantastic that they are doing all of this extra testing for you. They are really being diligent to make sure that you have the best possible odds of a successful outcome. I know going through all of those appointments on your own isn't always easy though. I told DH that I really wanted him to attend my monitoring appointments and IUI appointment during our last IUI cycle in November (so far he hasn't gone to any, including the IUIs). I felt kind of embarrassed before and didn't want him there, but now I'm feeling like it might be nice not to be alone. He doesn't need to be there of course, but it sets the tone that we are in this together.


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## Ask4joy

Ok I was worried maybe I have polyps or fibroids (my mom had fibroids removed in her mid 30s). I am definitely glad they are doing all these tests. So far everything except my freakin chromosomes has been perfectly normal, not even borderline abnormal. Go figure! 

It's nice to have your DH at the appointmehts...my DH has only been to a couple with me now that we are staring IVF and they want him to be. 

So you are thinking you'll do your last IUI in November? My transfer will probably be in late November/December so I've got some waiting to do too!


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## BelleNuit

Polyps and fibroids can result in an early mc as well, but I suspect a lot of the time they would prevent implantation altogether (although I'm not an expert on this). I think its great either way that you're getting checked out so that you can put your mind to ease about the rest of it! 

Yes, I'm wanting to give the naturopathy treatments 3 months to work before doing IUI. I'm actually kind of glad to hear that you'll be having your transfer around the same time. We can wait together! 

Ya, our only problem seems to be thin lining. My estrogen is on the low end of normal. I do wonder though if they categorize normal as being the outward extremes of what you could expect to find for most women, rather than normal being what is "optimal" for conception to occur.


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## smurphy90

Just wanted to update a bit.

I went to a thyroid specialist endo today to get my thyroid more thoroughly checked out. My ultrasound was good: no nodules and it's not enlarged. She said there are no physical signs that I have Hashimoto's but she's doing a thorough blood panel anyway. She is curious to see the results of a test I had to see if I had Cushing's syndrome, because she still suspects it even though the last doctor said it was negative. She also said she would have elected to keep me on the 2000mg/day of Metformin. The RE took me off of it because she suspected it was elevating my liver enzymes, but the thyroid endo seemed to think it would still be beneficial. I'll probably discuss that with her more and also bring it up to my RE when I see her again.

So there was a blood draw for that and then we went to the RE on the way home to get my CD 3 blood taken. I'm definitely done being stabbed for the day. 

Oh! I also realized today that I misread my Clomid Rx: I'll be starting at 100mg, not 50. Starting it in 2 days!


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## smurphy90

Starting my Clomid tonight. Fingers crossed for no (or even few) side effects! Feeling pretty anxious about the potential side effects still, but I'm optimistic about it working. Do you ladies bother temping while you're being monitored on Clomid?

Fingers and toes will be crossed for the next few weeks.

How's everyone else doing?


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## Ask4joy

Congrats on starting clomid, Sara! I think awareness of the side effects makes them better and considering you are still taking your Lamictal I wouldn't worry too much. The hot flashes suck but they are more annoying than anything else. I did temp on clomid but expect that your temps will be higher than normal in the beginning of your cycle / while taking it. I was able to detect a temp drop and spike before and after ovulation but I think some people are not? I liked having the reassurance that I ovulated and was also put on progesterone so needed to confirm ovulation before I started it. Good luck to you!


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## BelleNuit

Glad you don't have hashimotos Sara! Congrats on starting clomid! On femara I had hot flashes and many many night sweats. But my estrogen is on the lower side anyway so that's probably why. I did temp but could not confirm O with it (I know O'd though because had trigger shot). My temps went completely nuts on femara (up and down each day).


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## OnErth&InHvn

Sorry i havent been on here- its been a crap week.....

AF came, then our rabbit died, then the next day our 11yr old got hit by a car!

Not TTC this cycle. :thumbup:


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## smurphy90

OnErth&InHvn - Oh my gosh! Is your child okay!? I'm sorry to hear you've had such a crappy week. Hopefully your break refreshes you!

AFM - Thanks for the input Ask and Belle! I take my pills at 9pm, so technically I'm only about 13 hours into "day 2." Nothing bad at all yet, but I'm still preparing myself for that since a lot of people say they don't have s/e until a few days in, or even after the last pill. So far some intense, but very short-lived, hot flashes. They're primarily bad a couple hours after I take the pills, but they do happen a few times throughout the day. I've also had a dull pressure in my head since yesterday afternoon, but it hasn't developed into an actual headache so it's just a slight annoyance. Had some dizziness last night, but again, nothing to bad. So far, so good!

Edit: Oh! It's also making me extremely tired. As someone who has insomnia, I'm not complaining about that!


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## Ask4joy

Glad to hear the side effects aren't too unbearable Sara! 

Earth - I am so sorry about your bunny. I hope your child is ok! How scary!!

I finished my first week of birth control pills. One more week on them. I have my saline sonogram tomorrow and our consent signing a week from tomorrow so most likely I'll be starting my injections around sept 23/23. My retrieval could literally end up being on my 35th birthday or days before!


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## BelleNuit

Glad you're SE are fairly manageable at this point Sara! I hope it stays that way.

Earth it sounds like everything that can go wrong has gone wrong. I'm sorry you're dealing with all that and hope it'll all be okay!

Good luck at your sonogram tomorrow Ask! Things are happening quickly now!

Well AF showed. It's been pretty light so far (definitely still have lining issues lol). I'll probably end up Oing around Sept 22 this cycle. I think we'll give it a go naturally this cycle.


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## smurphy90

Hey ladies,

Ask - It's exciting that you're getting so close!

Belle - Sorry the witch showed up. Hopefully a little break with a natural cycle gets you lucky!

AFM - Still about the same. Hot flashes are getting more frequent and I'm on the verge of being irritable but still not too bad.

I am not stressing about temping, but I'm doing it if I wake up at a good time. Now I'm wondering about OPKs. Should I bother? If so, when? I know Clomid can cause a false surge if tested too early. My RE never told me to do any OPKs. She seems to be planning to trigger, but didn't go into detail about when. I do ovulate when I get a mature follicle though so I'm a little confused about why/when. I go in on Friday for a CD12 u/s and then I guess I'll find out more. Unfortunately it won't be with our usual doctor because she's out on Fridays. Hopefully that doesn't complicate any communication. Just anxiously waiting for my ultrasound, now!


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## Ask4joy

Sara - I used OPKs with clomid but often got "almost positives" even 3,4,5 days after my last pill. Then it would usually fade out and then I'd get a "blazing positive" a couple of days after it had faded which would correspond with O pains over the next day or two. But that's just me! 

Belle - might as well give another natural cycle a go! Nothing to lose but your sanity! :)


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## BelleNuit

I never had problems with OPKs when using letrozole. But things might be different for you because I know pcos can affect OPKs.

Ask my sanity is long gone anyway lol


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## Ask4joy

I'm with you on the sanity, Belle! :haha:


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## LAR83

Hi all. Just wanted to drop by to say hello. I check back every now and then to see how everyone's doing, and I am always wishing the best for you all. Afm, I started going to school full-time while working full-time, so it doesn't leave me time for much else. Unfortunately DH and I were told we have to wait all the way until the end of February to try conceiving since we went to the caribbean in July. Apparently no zika tests are reliable enough.. errrr! I was super frustrated, but what can I do? Meanwhile, I have been eating pretty healthy, I lost 20 lbs, and I even became a vegan. I am looking forward to February, so I can finally get started trying again. Best of luck everyone!!!! Xoxo


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## OnErth&InHvn

I never had issues with OPk on Clomid or FE. 

DD1 is OK. People are minimizing it. " She just had her tire clipped and she jumped right up"... umm, no she didnt. 

She was crossing the street on her bike, about 3/4th of the way across and the guy turned right and then dragged her. She blacked out on impact and somehow made her way to the sidewalk. He kept driving with her bike under him about 25ft. Then stopped. Ankle cast, elbow brace, bruises, bumps, nightmares, scared to go out.... but no, just a clip and done. :growlmad:

--------
I hope everyone is doing well. i do at least read, even if i dont post!


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## Ask4joy

Earth - that's awful! Thank god nothing worse happened. Poor girl. I can imagine how terrified she is (and you, momma)!

LAR - so good to hear from you! Sounds like life has been busy! I'm sorry you have to wait until February to try again - frustrating. Are you thinking of moving on to IVF in Feb?

I got my kidney results back and my kidneys are normal - yay! Heart, thyroid, kidneys normal! (Abnormal heart, thyroid and kidneys are markers of Turner Syndrome). My saline sonogram this morning hurt worse than my HSG (read: very painful!) but the good news is my uterus is normal too!


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## LAR83

Hi ask! I'm really glad to hear you have been getting back some good test results-- it seems like you are definitely making some progress toward the goal of getting and staying pregnant. I hope to hear an announcement sometime soon! I have a really good feeling for you :)

I am not sure if we will go straight to IVF. Part of me says yes, and the other part of me says maybe we should try naturally for a bit longer, especially now that I am in school and things will be super duper hectic if I have a baby while I am in school. But then again, I am definitely not getting any younger, so maybe we'll start IVF as soon as we can. February seems so far off right now, so I haven't really talked to DH about it yet, but I should bring it up.


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## BelleNuit

Earth I'm so sorry about your daughter. That sounds pretty horrific. 

LAR good to see you back again! That really sucks that you have to wait 6 months. On the other hand, I can see why the break would be nice too! I ended up taking a break for August and half of September. You and I might end up doing IVF around the same time. I'm thinking April, but who knows, might be later. We'll do our last IUI in November. I can relate to where you're at though, its hard to know what to do sometimes!

Ask I'm sorry your procedure was so painful! It does seem though like things are going in the right direction for you. I think you'll have the next sticky bfp in this group!


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## Pinkee

Hey girls, Alliah here. 

was an avid poster in one of the older clomid threads. Not ready to start ttc yet but already have my clomid prescription on standby.
More comfortable with the LTTC'ers as it took us 4 years to conceive our first.


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## Ask4joy

Welcome Pinkee (Alliah)! This is a great thread of amazing and supportive women who I wouldn't have gotten through all of this LTTTC stuff without!


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## BelleNuit

Welcome Alliah, we are always happy to have new ladies join us here :) Thats great that you already have your clomid prescription ready to go! Any idea on when you might be starting again?


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## smurphy90

Hi ladies,

Just a quick check-in:
Thus far, my side-effects from Clomid have stayed mild. The hot flashes are getting more intense each time, and a bit more frequent, but they're still a good 4-5 hours apart and only last 1-2 minutes at a time so it's totally fine. I got pretty irritable on CD 10 and a bit depressed on CD 9-10, but I think that may have had more to do with my weight than the Clomid.

Today I had my first follicle scan, CD12. I was obviously hoping that they'd already be a decent size, but thus far I have two 9mm follicles, one on each side. I go back in on Monday, CD15, for another scan to see if we're any closer to being able to trigger. As it's my first month, I really don't know how "good" 9mm is for CD 12. At least there are two, so hopefully one (if not both) beefs up in the next few days! Mostly I'm just hoping to ovulate before Sept 25th, as my mom will be visiting for two weeks and we won't be able to BD for the first week as we're going on a road-trip to Bavaria and are sharing a hotel room. :blush:

I still haven't decided on the OPKs. I might start doing them tomorrow just for the heck of it. I have a ton of ICs, so why not? Not focusing on temping much, but if I think about it I take it.


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## BelleNuit

That's great that you have 2 follicles! Some women just need a little more time to grow their follicles. Depending on how this cycle goes they might decide to increase your dose for next cycle. 

By day 12 my follicles are usually in the 17mm range but my body always seems to O early. 

I think that's great that your SE have stayed mild. I'm probably just a whiner haha. 

AFM day 6. AF should theoretically be finished by today so I'll start taking Vit E for the next few days to hopefully boost my lining. If anyone is interested right now I'm taking a mix of Chinese herbs including vitex and myo-inositol, B50, 800 mg coq10, folic acid, multi-vitamin and now adding the vit E.


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## smurphy90

Belle - Glad your almost through with AF. Your vitamin routine sounds good. How's it been working so far?

As far as s/e, it probably helps a lot that I'm on mood stabilizers. That combined with being used to really extreme bipolar-related mood swings probably just makes any from Clomid less noticeable. Clomid also made me very tired, which actually helped my insomnia which always directly impacts my mood swings, so that probably helped too.

Oh, speaking of meds: My psych actually gave me a prescription for Zoloft yesterday. We had discussed it and I was going to wait until depression/anxiety symptoms got worse, but after discussing it with DH we both feel like it might be best just just start it now, and hope for a better base-line. It means I can drop my current anxiety med (which has had much less research done about it's safety during pregnancy), so at least I'm dropping one as well. I guess we'll see how I get on with that in the future.


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## BelleNuit

I've done the vitamin routine off and on for for over a year now. Its tough to say if its really helped with anything. The chinese herbs are new though. My AF was a bit longer (5 days for a natural cycle is pretty decent for me, usually to get to 5 days I'm needing acupuncture or femara to get an AF that heavy). But I also had heavier spotting. We'll see what happens around O time. I always get really good ewcm, so I don't expect there will be any changes there. Hopefully I get at least a 26 day cycle (I always hope for longer). 

It sounds like your med switch will be a good one for you. My brother has bi-polar so I know what its like from a family member's perspective. His meds have really helped him to stabilize. This is the most stable I've ever seen him in his entire life. Also helps that he's taking his meds correctly (he always used to try to skip doses, never really believing that he needed them). 

Glad to hear you are sleeping better with the clomid. Thats an unexpected bonus!


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## jwilly

Hi ladies, 

Do you mind if I join you? We are in the middle of our first IUI cycle and first cycle on Femara. We are back for another scan tomorrow on CD 13, and should be triggering in the next day or two. This cycle seems to be doomed from the beginning, but we are going to go ahead with it anyways.I'm not holding out much hope, but we have to start somewhere!


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## Ask4joy

Welcome jwilly! FX for a successful cycle! Why do you say it seemed doomed from the beginning? Are you doing Femara + IUI for unexplained, MFI, PCOS, something else?


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## jwilly

Thanks Ask4joy! We have been diagnosed with unexplained, but I am pretty positive that I have endo. We haven't done a lap yet (my dr. seems to think it would be "useless") but my HSG from earlier this year showed one blocked tube. At my scan last week they said the blocked tube was a hydrosalpinx, which means (from what I understand) the tube will likely have to come out in order for us to have a successful pregnancy. Not only that, but my mature follie this cycle is on the left (blocked) tube. We were told that about 40% of the time the egg will be picked up by the other side, but it just seems really unlikely to me. 

My RE doesn't seem concerned about anything, but after this cycle I am going to push to have the hydro tube removed. I know we should probably should cancel this cycle, but I really think I need to see it fail to move on.


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## Ask4joy

I'm sorry to hear about the blocked tube. Another member on the forum is having surgery to have her hydrosalpinx tube removed next week I think before her next embryo transfer (FET). 

I think the success rates of laparoscopy for endo, especially if it is mild, is debated. My old RE who specializes in endo said something of the sort, but I've also heard anecdotal stories to the contrary. 

Do you think you will elect to have the tube removed if the first IUI fails? I've also heard the fluid can reduce pregnancy rates in IVF. Do you think you'll move onto IVF? Sorry for all the questions! :)

I was unexplained until I recently found out about my chromosome abnormality. I start my IVF meds late this week/early next week. I did 6 rounds of clomid and 1 IUI. I've had 3 CPs (2 on natural cycles and 1 on a clomid cycle) so it's most likely an egg quality issue. My HSG and saline sonogram were all clear. They will biopsy and test our embryos before transfer.


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## jwilly

I don't mind the questions at all! :) Yes, I think our next step will be getting that tube removed. If that is what is causing problems then I am totally ready to part with it. The IVF waiting list at our clinic is booked out until next aug, so I think we will try a few more IUIs with the one tube while on the waiting list, then do IVF when we can. 

So sorry for your losses. Unexplained can be so difficult, its nice (in kind of a backwards way I guess) that they were able to figure out what was going on. Will this be your first IVF cycle?


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## Ask4joy

Sounds like a good plan!

This is my first (and hopefully only) IVF! My RE is expecting a good response based on my AMH / FSH levels. FX we will get some good embryos!


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## smurphy90

So my second ultrasound was crappy. CD 12s u/s had two 9mm follicles, one on each side. Today (CD15) we saw basically no growth. The left follicle stayed 9mm and the right only grew to 10. She's operating under the assumption that I'm Clomid resistant, since I also have PCOS, insulin resistance, and a high BMI. We have an appointment for Thursday and if we don't see any progress, we are going to begin daily injectionables. :( :( :(

Sorry for no personals. Really freaking bummed out right now.


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## Ask4joy

So sorry Sara. That's a huge bummer. Have you tried Femara? Any chance you might respond better to it?

I start injections sometime in the next week (go in for my ultrasound tomorrow and will hopefully get the green light). I hear they aren't as bad as you anticipate...hope that's true!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Light brown spotting since CD14...


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## Ask4joy

Sorry Earth...do you think it's an anovulatory cycle? I'm on birth control right now before starting stims and have had some brown spotting too.


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## BelleNuit

Welcome jwilly, I'm sorry to hear about your tube. I think you have a really great plan and doing IUIs while on the waitlist for IVF makes so much sense!

Sara I'm so sorry to hear you haven't had any follicle growth. Do you think your doc would be willing to try you on 150mg clomid or femara? We had some ladies on here who had success with 150mg clomid when the 100mg dose didn't make them O. Rooting for you!

Earth spotting like that is terribly annoying. 

AFM I'm on CD 9, should be heading into my fertile days soon. I've been having a lot of twinging happening in my right ovary, so must be something brewing up there. I usually only ever had twinging/cramping when I was on femara, so maybe those herbs I'm on are actually doing something? Tomorrow I have my follow-up appointment with my naturopath. I'll get the results from my adrenal testing while I'm there. Also, something interesting I'm trying out this cycle is seed cyling. During the FP you eat ground flax and chia seeds and then in the LP you eat pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds and apparently it is supposed to help support healthy hormone levels. Who knows if there is anything to it, but seeds pack a lot of nutritional value, so eating more of them for that reason alone is a good thing :)


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## smurphy90

Ask - Good luck with the injections!

Belle - Seed cycling sounds really interesting. I've never come across that before. All of those are healthy though, so definitely can't hurt!

As far as why my doctor is wanting to go straight to injects, I'm not positive. My assumption for her not wanting to do a higher dose of Clomid is that I have 4 big issues that increase the likelihood of resistance. My guess is that she doesn't want to waste time (and possibly risk worse side-effects, with my bipolar). She's never even mentioned Letrozole. When we were discussing my treatment plan she said if the Clomid affected my moods too badly she would move me to injections, because she was very nervous about upsetting my bipolar issues. My only guess as to why she didn't mention Letrozole is that Germany, in general, is very by-the-books with drugs and Letrozole is formally listed as treating breast cancer in post-menopausal women. Sometimes they flat out refuse to go off-label (and insurance companies often won't cover things being used off-label). That's just my guess, I really have no idea if that's actually the reason. We'll probably ask about Letrozole, but I'm not really opposed to just going straight to injects. Not looking forward to it, but she's thought from the get-go that it would probably be the best route for us. She just wanted to see if I responded to Clomid first.


----------



## jwilly

FX for you Ask! 

Thanks Belle! Sorry, I'm a little late to the party, but what herbs are you taking? I am going to see how our next few cycles go, then want to look into seeing a naturopath. Would love to hear how that is going for you!

Sara, sorry your scan didn't go well. Hope the injections do it for you! 

AFM, I will be triggering tonight, and going in for my IUI on Thursday morning. I fudged up picking up my ovidrel prescription this morning (didn't realize i could only pick it up at the hospital pharmacy) so I've been running around like a crazy person all morning trying to figure out how to get it by tonight. Im so ready for this cycle to be over!


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## BelleNuit

Good luck with your trigger tonight jwilly and your IUI!

Sara I think what your doctor is saying makes a lot of sense. The injects will definitely work well for you and have a higher success rate anyway! Why waste anymore time is what I think!

Jwilly. With the naturopath I think its good not to mix any prescription medications with the herbs due to potential interactions. It can also take a few months for the herbs to work and do what they're supposed to do. So you'd either want to take a break from IUIs while you did the naturopath thing, or do the naturopathy after the IUIs in preparation for IVF!

She has me on a whole combination of things. The first 3 months is working on estrogen/progesterone balance (I have 2 months left of that), then shes going to work on promoting proper adrenal function

She has me on herbs in capsule form that I take 2-3 times a day that include a blend of wild yam, vitex, astragalus, bupleurum falcaturn, dong quai, rhodiola, maca, atractylodes macrocephala, blessed thistle, raspberry leaf, siberian ginseng, ginger root, motherwort, tumeric, schisandra chinesis fruit, rosemary leaf, st mary's thistle, calcium phosphate dibasic, cellulose, magnesium sterate, hypromellose. 

She also has me on myo-inositol, N-Acetylcysteine, B50, coq10 800mg (until O), Vitamin E 800mg (until O), multi vitamin and folic acid.


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## smurphy90

jwilly - Good luck with your IUI tomorrow!

Belle - That's my thought exactly on the injects. Many people on various groups and forums keep saying to push for a higher dose of Clomid or for Letrozole, but I'm honestly fine moving on to injects. The chances are higher anyway and we won't really being risking mood-related side effects so... why waste time on less likely treatments?


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## BelleNuit

Makes sense to me Sara! Are you starting the injects next cycle?


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## smurphy90

It seemed like she planned to just start injections now and get the bigger follicles going. I'm not sure how/if that plan would be impacted by us being away for 4 days next week though. I know they usually want to monitor pretty closely with injects, so I don't know how that might impact her plan.


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## smurphy90

Sorry for the double-post, but I wanted to update after my appointment.

We went in for my third scan this afternoon and once again, there was no growth at all. She's having me start 50iu of Gonal-F/day. I go back on Monday to see how things are moving along. It might be tricky... we'll be gone Tues-Fri next week, so we'll have to go an entire week between scans. She's hoping we'll have a really good idea of what to expect on Monday so she can tell me which day to trigger. Finger crossed, as always.


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## BelleNuit

Sounds nerve-wracking Sara! Good luck!!


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## Ask4joy

Good luck Sara!


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## BelleNuit

Well CD 13 today, I'm pretty sure today is O. Not that I've done anything to track it this cycle, but based off of cycle history I'm pretty sure today is the day!


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## jwilly

Thanks for the well wishes! All went well yesterday. Though I've spent the morning googling the extremely low success rates of IUI with endometriosis. I don't know why I torture myself like that :dohh:

Belle, that's a good point. It would maybe be something I should try post IUI, before IVF. So interested to see your results with the herbs! I'm a definite believer that natural is generally better, unfortunately with ttc there aren't as many natural alternatives. 

Good luck Sara! I hope everything will fall into place for you. Fx!


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## red_head

Hey, sorry I've not been on, I'm really struggling with depression and anxiety recently, life is just being so unkind, and it just feels like it's been years since we had any real happiness in our life! I was also told this week that it looks like I may have crohns so that's just absolutely floored me. Im also cd 17 now and don't think I've ovulated - getting high fertility still on cb digital tests (for the past 2 days) so don't know what's going on. I'm so fed up!! I feel like everything I do is for nothing - I quit smoking, gave up alcohol, caffeine, lost weight (still more to go admittedly), I'm virtually vegan (and strict veggie), take the supplements I'm supposed to, etc, etc for years now, and yet my body just seems to hate me and things get worse and worse! So frustrating!! I took the clomid 2-5 but was very ill day 5 so don't know whether that's messed it all up? I don't understand when inovulated both sides last month and now so late, if at all this month?
Sorry, just feel like I'm drowning and needed to vent! I hope all is good with everyone else xx


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## BelleNuit

Red I'm really sorry to hear about the crohns. My uncle has that and it can be really difficult to manage at times. It just doesn't seem fair, especially when you're doing all of the right things!

jwilly I did the same thing for my IUIs. The success rates for unexplained are also dismally low for IUI. IVF is pretty much the best treatment for unexplained.. unfortunately. We'll get there eventually I suppose.


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## OnErth&InHvn

brown spotting continues.. 

Not enough to say flow but not enough to say spotting. 

I do read, even if i dont comment. I hope all the IUIs and tests go well and i hope any anxiety goes away too! :hugs::hugs:


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## Calibeachbum

Hello!
I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm starting my first round of 100mg clomid tomorrow ttc #2 CD 3-9. DH and have been ntnp with no birth control since our DS birth 4 years ago. Mixed feelings about going through all the ttc emotions again!


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## BelleNuit

Welcome Cali! Hope the clomid gives you good luck!


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## jwilly

Red, so sorry you have been struggling. This is such a hard journey to be on. Reading your post described almost exactly how I feel most of the time. Life can be so unfair, especially when it seems everything is going wrong. 

Belle, I guess we have to start somewhere. Its so hard when you know something is so unlikely. In a way, I'm glad I'm not getting my hopes up.Do you plan on doing IVF or are you going to continue with the herbs? 

Hi Cali! Hope this clomid is what you need this cycle!


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## BelleNuit

I am planning on IVF in the spring as that will give us some time to save up for it. We've been following a pretty tight budget!


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## jwilly

Belle good for you guys! Spring will be here before you know it.


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## BelleNuit

Ya, it's pretty nerve-wracking to be honest. When we first started TTC never did I think I'd still be sitting here nearly 2 years later without a single pregnancy and facing IVF. I thought to myself "95% of people are pregnant after 2 years of trying. No way in hell will I be in the 5% who aren't" LOL.


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## smurphy90

CD 22, scan #4.... still no freaking growth! My follicles are the same size as they have been since our first scan on cd12.

My RE is confident that it will be solved as soon as we can work more intensly on the dosage. However, as we're away from tomorrow-Saturday, we have to be very cautious for the next week since I can't be monitored. I'll be alternating 75iu and 50iu of Gonal-F for the next week. Scan #5 on Oct 2nd.

I'm hopeful, and confident in my doctor. But jeez.... I wish there would have been SOME growth since cd 18..... even 1mm would have made me happy. I just want to know they'll do SOMETHING.


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## Ask4joy

It sucks, Belle. It really SUCKS! I do think IVF will work for you. And so far it's not nearly as stressful as I thought it would be...after everything we've been through, it's just another step.

Sara - I'm so sorry! Were you on injects and no growth? I go for my first ultrasound and estradiol bloodwork on Thursday.


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## smurphy90

Ask - I began injects on cd 18, so I've only been on a low dose (50iu/day) of Gonal-f for 4 days. It didn't cause any growth in that time though.


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## BelleNuit

Weird Sara. I wonder if these follies are maybe just burnt out? If this doesn't work out I wonder if your doc will decide to induce AF and start a new cycle fresh with a strong dose of the gonadotropins? They'll get things figured out for you! Docs are really good at getting women to O :)

Thanks Ask, I'm glad it's not as overwhelming as what I envision it to be. I think by the time we get there that I really will just think of it as the next step. I feel strongly that IVF will work for you too!


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## Calibeachbum

Belle, I feel you will have great success with IVF! This journey sucks and spring is just round the corner

Sara, hoping you get some follies growing. 

I'm on CD 6 and the hot flashes are killin me. I take it at night to reduce the side effects. I'm 33 and DH is 40. So this is our last few months of ttc.


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## Ask4joy

Welcome Cali! The hot flashes...ooh those suck. So far not having anything like that on my injectables. 

I'll be 35 in a couple weeks and DH is 48 and we are trying for our first together! We have 2 boys (my step-sons) who are 13 and almost 15. Are you only trying for a few more months due to your ages? I guess that's a personal choice but at 33 you certainly have time left!


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## Calibeachbum

Ask4joy, I just don't think I can take the heartbreak if it doesn't happen with clomid agian. It was a rough road with #1. We were finally to the point point of actually being ok without a LO unitl we got our bfp. So if it doesn't happen with the assistance; I can't take the dr appts, side effects etc.


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## Ask4joy

I totally get that Cali. I'm not sure how many rounds of IVF I can endure, let alone pay for! We may move on to donor eggs sooner rather than later depending on our embryo quality this time. I can't go on like this for years and I have no children of my own. I NEVER thought I'd be 35 and childless. Never ever. But that's life!


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## BelleNuit

Well Cali, I hope you'll have quicker success with number 2 and that the clomid will work quickly for you like last time around. I also wonder how much more of this I can take. If we ever have a baby I don't know if I'll have to heart to do this all again to try for another. That and my DH only wants one.


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## Pinkee

So Here I am floating around CD50 waiting for my cd1.


I have a positive OPK.
I really don't understand this... Literally the only positive opk I have ever received was on 100mg of clomid and was the cycle I had my daughter.


Not using clomid yet, But wwwwwwwwwwwttttttfffffffffff. I have no idea what's going on here, totally BD'd yesterday but is this really viable at cd50? I mean the lining?


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## Calibeachbum

Ask4joy- My heart aches and I know the feeling. I don't know your whole story, but sounds like you have a good plan with the egg donor if this cycle fails. Never give up, like you told me; you still have time.

Belle- You are taking the right steps to get there. The emotional roller coaster. 3 rounds of clomid and I am out.


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## BelleNuit

Pinkee it's definitely possible to O even late in your cycle. Not sure what it means for egg/lining quality though!

AFM I'm about half way through the TWW now. Nothing exciting going on, but also no point in getting worked up this early anyway! AF is due Friday or Saturday next week. I'll likely start spotting on Wednesday (possibly even Tuesday) if AF is planning to show.


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## jwilly

Hey ladies! Sorry, reading but not posting too much. I'm trying to take a step back and not obsess for a few days. The second half of the tww always gets me!


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## BelleNuit

I'm the same jwilly. I find the last few days really tough. I was probably 6 dpo yesterday and had some cramping in that area. My first thought was "it's AF" and my second thought was "it's implantation". Realistically it was probably just gas lol. The mind sure can play tricks on you though!


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## jwilly

Totally! Every twinge makes me wonder, even though I should know better.


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## red_head

Hey guys, sorry I've not been posting much - I am just really down at the moment! I have been reading everything though. Got my 21 day bloods back and my level was 0.5!!!! It was 46 last month! I think my health problems have messed things up (as I was really sick the last day of taking clomid so maybe it didn't get absorbed) but wish I'd known before I wasted so much money on pregnancy tests! What's more annoying is that I had some ovary pain a few days ago but thought it was possibly pregnancy so didn't dtd, and hubby and I normally do it every other day, but we had three days where we did nothing so we probably totally missed it! So frustrating!!! I hate this whole process! I mean 0.5?! I feel like the universe is trying to drive me insane!! X


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## Ask4joy

So sorry Red. Limbo land is the worst. It's hard enough trying this hard and waiting this long and then to have your body not cooperate - argh. They say sperm can live up to 5 days in the fallopian tubes so you may still have a chance!

Any news jwilly? Belle is right - those last few days of the TWW are crazy-making. 

Belle - are you noticing any changes from the new diet / supplements?

AFM - I'm on day 9 of my stim cycle for IVF. RE decreased my stim dosage yesterday as my estrodiol levels were rising quickly and I've started Ganirelix to prevent ovulation before egg retrieval. Estimated retrieval is Thursday but I'll go back for more bloodwork and an ultrasound tomorrow to see where things are at. Starting to feel pretty crappy...my breasts and ovaries are very sore and I'm very bloated. Ready to be done with this part. But, with that being said, it's really not THAT bad and hopefully will all be worth it!


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## jwilly

Ask, sorry you are feeling crappy. It will all be worth it in the end! 

I've started spotting today. 10 dpo same as last month. I'm pretty sure I'm out.


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry Red, all of this is so frustrating!!

Sara I'm sorry about the spotting. I often spot before AF and always think I'm out when I see it.

Ask I'm sorry you're feeling so uncomfortable. You're in the home stretch now!! Grow follies grow!

AFM I'm 8-10 dpo today. I was feeling a bit of light intermittent cramping over the weekend, but I'm not reading too much into that. I'm not feeling any of my usual pms symptoms, so maybe the herbs are to thank for that? Actually I feel pretty normal overall. I'm not thinking about it too much. We'll see what comes. AF is due during Canada's Thanksgiving weekend (this coming weekend) so that should be loads of fun (not lol). I hope more than anything my brother doesn't announce a new pregnancy during the same weekend that I start yet another AF. It seems almost silly to hope for a bfp at this point.


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## Pinkee

So do you have a day thought out to test or do you wait to be late?
how long are your cycles usually?


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## BelleNuit

Hey Pinkee, my cycles are 26-28 days long (usually closer to 26 days). So AF should be here sometime between Friday and Sunday, and I usually start spotting ~2 days in advance (so maybe by Wednesday at the earliest). I don't typically test! So I'll wait till AF is late. Still not feeling much of anything!

How are things going with you?


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## smurphy90

Hi ladies, sorry for no personals right now. I need to go through and catch up still.

My mom arrived from the states last Monday and on Tuesday we left for a 5-day Bavarian road trip. It was really fun and it's so beautiful in southern Germany. We went to some of her childhood homes (she was an Army brat and lived in Germany for 5 years.) We also went to Neuschwanstein and up Zugspitze (the highest mountain in Germany.) It was all so beautiful!

As for my cycles... not good. I had my 5th scan yesterday, after doing the alternating 50/75iu Gonal-F and there was still absolutely no growth. I had had a lot of cramping on Thursday, so she ordered blood tests to see if I ovulated, but she said there were no other indications that that was the case. Today's a holiday in Germany, so we'll get the blood results tomorrow evening. For now, she's bumped me to 75iu/day.


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## BelleNuit

I find it so strange Sara that she isn't letting you have an AF to reset those follicles!


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## red_head

I'm seriously cranky, as I have no idea what's going on with my body (will get to that in a moment), but I've just read about the third thread this week where someone has accidently got pregnant while using the pull out method!! Seriously?!? These people are adults, have children already, and should know about contraception!! She's upset she's pregnant for the 4th time - what does she expect!!! Ahhh it makes me so mad when people are so stupid and also, makes me so jealous!! Anyway sorry, I just think it's so irresponsible and ridiculous, and how on earth can she teach her kids about safe sex if she doesn't know what it is! 
Phew sorry rant over! I'm upset as I've had a faint positive in a pregnancy test, near positive opk today. I'm late for my period, no idea if I'm pregnant, ovulated, about to ovulate, and I'm so fed up feeling disconnected and at war with my own body. I've just been so ill for a while now, plus the fertility stuff, it's making me into not a very nice person! Sorry!
Sara - your holiday sounds amazing! I'm glad you enjoyed it :) I'm so sorry things aren't going well, hopefully now the increased dosage will sort things for you. 
Belle - fingers crossed for you - when I was last pregnant I had virtually no symptoms so that doesn't mean anything! Do you find it easier not to test? I've become a poas addict which is getting expensive - I could have brought a baby if I saved all the money on tests from the past 4 years!!! Lol!!! But I can't stop! How late do you let things get?


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## BelleNuit

Red I'm sorry you're going through all that! It's really disheartening to feel so disconnected to your body. Mine is pretty regular so I don't have quite that same problem, but I can relate in the sense that my body isn't doing what it's supposed to! It can be pretty defeating!

I usually spot before AF so I always know it's coming about 2 days in advance so then I don't have to test! The only times I test are when AF is late and I have no spotting or if I'm going out and will be drinking near the end of the tww. If no spotting by Friday I'll test Saturday morning. Mostly I'm just not thinking about it.


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## red_head

I'm normally regular - I was ovulating around cd14 monthly before clomid, and then AF cd 28-32. 
You've got such good self control :) I need to try and be like you - this has become a bit all consuming and obviousky it's not healthy. The only time I'm not thinking about it is for the first three days after my period - then I'm thinking about ov coming, then doing o tests, then worrying every day during 2ww and still trying in case ov was late, and then testing from about 6dpo til AF, then devestated AF had attended! I think it's time for a break really- we've decided to give ourselves a year out if we've got nowhere by Christmas, but that just seems to have made me more stressed and desperate! Lol! 
Fingers crossed for you.x


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## jwilly

Sorry you're feeling frustrated Red. It's so difficult when our bodies just won't seem to cooperate with us. 

Belle, I hope you get a surprise this month!

AFM, no surprise but this cycle was a bust. Beta isn't until next week but AF arrived this morning. We have an appointment on the 19th with our RE to discuss our options. I knew the chances were slim for us this month, but it still stings.


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry jwilly. It's not easy that's for sure. The thing that keeps me going is remembering that I do still have options


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## Pinkee

red_head said:


> I'm upset as I've had a faint positive in a pregnancy test, near positive opk today

I know when you're pregnant you can also get positive opks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnN1pwFN3RQ

so fx for you!


jwilly- sorry to hear that, are you on supplements?



BelleNuit- any spotting yet? 

smurphy90- whats blood results saying? did she take your blood during the first couple of days of your cycle?


Ask4joy- whats the skinny? Egg retrieval day? How do you feel? My friend's last cycle she said she felt "full and kinda jiggly in the ovaries when walking" and they collected 6 eggs that cycle. FX thing are well for you today


afm- 7dpo of the weirdo 1st cycle. had the positive opk at cd50 unmedicated and unprepared for. Symptom spotting like a madwoman. somewhat hoping its a wash and I can get my AF so I'm comfortable knowing what's going on and have control of all the factors going into it. like being on a good regiment of supplements, having comfort in knowing that if it's not a healthy pregnancy I did everything in my power to do the right thing. But mostly hoping this is it.

ugh the days are so long.


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## BelleNuit

Pinkee the days can definitely seem long going through this. I find the last couple days of the tww more difficult because my imagination starts going "maybe this is it!" And then it never is lol.

So of course I'm between 11-13 dpo today and I have no spotting yet, CP is very closed and tons of cm (like tons, it's creamy with a bit of stretch), and no spotting. So naturally I'm wondering what's up. Might only be 11 dpo and usually don't spot till 12 dpo. So it's possible it's just too early yet. Will wait and see and otherwise trying not to think about it too much!


----------



## steph1607

Hey ladies, I haven't really posted anything in a while because we are just in limbo while we wait for IVF to start and I'm trying to be more chilled (that, and work and life has been ridiculously busy). I do like to keep an eye on what you're all up to though!

Red, I just wanted to say that I saw your post on that "pull out" thread and I really do feel your frustration. I think there is nothing worse when we are all over here waiting and waiting, than seeing those kinds of posts. Still blows my mind how people can even get pregnant without serious planning :haha: I know you were coming at it from a social services point of view too. The mind boggles how people can genuinely think that that's a form of birth control. 

I'm still in a very good place of acceptance at the moment, but when I think back a few months to when I was doing Clomid and all that, I can remember very clearly how down I felt the whole time. Like there was a black cloud constantly hanging over me the whole time. And then I would see all these people TTC for a couple of months, do a cycle of Clomid, get a BFP and go on their merry way. 

I realise yet again that I've just rambled on a bit, but I just wanted to let you know that I think we all feel you, and are always here whenever you need to vent and let it all out. Hang on in there Hastings Buddy :hugs:


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## BelleNuit

You know thinking back on it we did use the pullout method as our only form of birth control for years, like years and years. Maybe that should have been a red flag for us because we never had a scare :haha:

Steph I also relate to what you wrote about ppl getting pregnant after 1-2 cycles of clomid. If only it could be that easy for me!

I pop into your journal every now and then to see how things are going. I hope your IVF cycle will get started soon!


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## BelleNuit

Well I tested this morning and BFN. It's CD 27 today I'm probably 12-13 dpo. Haven't had any spotting, so maybe the herbs have helped with that, or maybe they pushed back my ovulation a bit?


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## smurphy90

BelleNuit said:


> I find it so strange Sara that she isn't letting you have an AF to reset those follicles!

I think she probably will soon. We had another scan yesterday but, again, there was no progress. We increased from 75iu to 112.5. My next scan is Tuesday and we're going to ask what her plan is regarding when to induce AF to start a new cycle.


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## Ask4joy

Sara - sorry still no growth. If I were you I would push for inducing AF and starting over. I tend to give doctors the benefit of the doubt and trust that they know what they are doing but it does strike me as a bit off that this cycle isn&#8217;t being cancelled due to lack of response. I hope you aren&#8217;t paying out of pocket for your meds! And hope something happens for you soon!

Belle - still no sign of AF? 

My egg retrieval was yesterday and they retrieved 33 eggs...I know, what?! I&#8217;m guessing a good percentage are going to be immature - my doctor was guessing 10 before my retrieval based on my follicle sizes. Anxiously waiting for the call today!


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## Ask4joy

Just got the call...we have 22 embryos! 24 of the 33 eggs were mature and 22 fertilized normally with ICSI! Im in shock! Couldnt ask for a better birthday present!


----------



## red_head

Hey all :)
Pinkie - any update? I know what you mean - this process has so many unknowns and things drag on that it's hard to know whether to hope for one thing or just want to wipe it clean and start again! 
Belle - any news? Even if it's not the BFP it seems like those herbs have definitely had an impact for you.

Steph - thank you :) I was worried I went a bit overboard! But it is frustrating - you'd think by now I'd be more calm about everything but I seem to get more wound up! I think you're being so strong and it's really good to hear you're in such a good place. :) 
Sara - I'm sorry nothing seems to be happening. Maybe they are waiting to find the right dosage for you, and then next month they can go straight in at that point? I don't know how it works exactly but that might make sense? Fingers crossed it improves soon! 
Ask - that's amazing!!! Congratulations and happy birthday! You must be so happy!!! 

I have nothing new to report - no AF a week overdue, still not sure I've ovulated, still faint lines on tests which I'm sure now are just how he tests work!! Sorry I only really come on here when I'm in a mood! I'm not always grumpy I promise :) xx

(Also sorry - this posted half finished first!)


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## red_head

Ask just seen your update that's fantastic!!! I've actually teared up for you! It's so lovely to hear such nice news! I am so so hopeful for you!!! How lovely! It gives me hope xxx


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## BelleNuit

Ask congratulations :) that's a brilliant number of embryos! I would expect quite a few will be good quality! Enjoy today, celebrate to your hearts content!

Sara I'm sorry there is still no growth! Maybe red has it right and she's just looking to see what dose you respond to. I dunno. I hope this will be over for you soon!

Red I often come on here to vent. My journal is like one vent fest after another lol. Sorry you're still stuck in limbo!

AFM I'm CD 28 today (which is as long as my cycles ever get). I didn't have any spotting yesterday, and haven't checked yet today. I had AF like cramps last night though, that combined with the mood swings yesterday morning and the BFN I'm pretty convinced AF is on the way regardless. I should at the minimum have some spotting today if not AF.

But ya, definitely think the herbs are working. Don't know if it will be enough though. We're coming on 2 years pretty quick here and I always said I would stop trying after 3. If no bfp then at some point this year we will do IVF. Either way I will be happy (if it works or if it doesn't) because it will mean I will have closure and will be able to move on with my life.


----------



## Pinkee

Ask4joy said:


> Just got the call...we have 22 embryos! 24 of the 33 eggs were mature and 22 fertilized normally with ICSI! Im in shock! Couldnt ask for a better birthday present!

Holycrap! Wow!


----------



## smurphy90

That's fantastic news, Ask! I'm so excited for you! 

As far as pushing for a new cycle, I'm thinking along the same lines as red said. I'm going to ask what her plan is, but I really wanted to at least get to 100iu before asking her to restart and have to risk another failed cycle due to too low of a dose. We only pay $10/pen so financially it's not noteworthy, fortunately.

Just sitting here really, really hoping that 100+iu is the magic number!


----------



## Ask4joy

Thanks ladies! Hoping the good news continues!

Sara - that makes sense, especially since you aren&#8217;t paying hundreds or more! My 8 Follistim pens (300iu each) ran me around $1800 I think! Oy! 

Belle - glad the new diet and supplements seem to be helping!


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## smurphy90

Ask - I'm constantly grateful for the health insurance in Germany. Our plan is the legal minimum coverage and it's amazing. I was so worried about how much everything would cost, but even if we have to result to IVF, we'd only pay about $1200/cycle (for up to three cycles.) I get so frustrated at the state of health insurance in other countries (especially back home in the US) when I see how much TTC women are paying just to create a life! It's so frustrating and sad.


----------



## Ask4joy

You are very fortunate, Sara! It&#8217;s disgusting how much we have to pay...IVF + PGS has cost us $17,000 and that&#8217;s not including the $3-4,000 we spent on tests, procedures and treatments before doing IVF. There are so many people who it&#8217;s just not an option for due to the cost...so sad.


----------



## red_head

I'm in the UK - fertility treatment was on the NHS most places so we are incredibly lucky, but sadly this nasty government is making so many cuts it can't cope with demand, and a lot of places are no longer offering NHS IVF anymore and more seem to be following suit - it's now being discussed in my area. It means a lot of people have to privately fund it and we don't get insurance here like other countries. Again, the poorest people suffer because the people who vote for the government in power tend to be the people with huge bank balances who can afford to pay thousands for private treatment. I know it's not a medical emergency or life threatening etc, and it is hard to justify tax payer money being spent on giving someone a child, but it's already unfair enough to be needing treatment, and then to be told you can't have it unless you pay thousands, knowing full well you can't afford it just seems so wrong. I can see both sides of the argument but hate the fact it's happening! We're saving now for treatment, hopefully it won't come to that but I don't want money to be the reason I can't be a parent. It's a really difficult topic - I'm not really sure where I stand on it!


----------



## Ask4joy

I think having children/procreating is a fundamental human right and if medical intervention is necessary in order to do so, I do think at least some of the costs should be covered by insurance or government subsidy. Birth control is covered under most health insurance plans...so we are willing to help people prevent conception, but not promote it? I realize there is a huge disparity in cost in the two. True, it&#8217;s not life or death, but it is often matter of one&#8217;s body not functioning properly / fulfilling it&#8217;s natural functions. There are plenty of things that aren&#8217;t life or health threatening that insurance covers. Besides, infertility is proven to be mental-health threatening. So my insurance has no problem shelling out thousands for years of cognitive therapy and psychiatric drugs, but not for infertility treatment. Kinda backwards in my opinion.


----------



## red_head

I totally agree with what you've said - I've been on the verge of suicide several times on this journey, and I cannot imagine my future without a child in it - I can for sure see it's life saving in a roundabout way, and the benefits for mental health, plus the fact there is often a medical reason underlying. I guess it's the part of me that thinks I'm not good enough to be a parent, and that's why this is happening, that also says why should someone else have to pay for me to become one, if Mother Nature thinks it's a bad idea! But then I know that's my depression and anxiety, low self worth and esteem speaking! And I 100% don't feel that way about other women in the same position - there is nothing I wouldn't give to help someone else not be in this position, so I'm more than happy for my taxes to pay towards it. I just feel guilty asking for it myself. Especially when I see what some people go through and how they could use the resources more. I don't know - my anxiety makes me sit and worry about thinggs like this and think of every possibility from overcrowding/populating to whether animals were harmed in the making of the treatment!! Lol!


----------



## Ask4joy

I totally know what you mean, Red! I&#8217;ve sometimes thought &#8220;maybe I wasn&#8217;t destined to be a mother...if it takes this much science to make me one!&#8221; But yeah, that&#8217;s just silly. We will truly appreciate motherhood and be amazing parents when it happens to us!


----------



## red_head

Agreeed :) xx


----------



## LAR83

Ask4joy said:


> Just got the call...we have 22 embryos! 24 of the 33 eggs were mature and 22 fertilized normally with ICSI! Im in shock! Couldnt ask for a better birthday present!

Woohoo!! :happydance: That gives you a lot of chances for success. Your future baby is most likely one of those embryos! Good luck~ I hope you get your sticky baby sooner rather than later. <3


----------



## Ask4joy

Thanks LAR!!! Hopefully our future BABIES are in the bunch...got my day 3 update and all 22 embryos are &#8220;dividing beautifully&#8221; according to the embryologist!

How are you doing?? Good to hear from you!


----------



## LAR83

That's exciting! And yes, you're right, I should have said babies. How many do you and DH want?

I am doing ok. I thought I had to wait until the end of February to try again, but it is actually the end of January/beginning of February. I am looking forward to trying again! Still haven't decided if I will start mini IVF right away or not.

Forgive me if you already wrote about this. I haven't read all the entries.. how is your sister-in-law doing? And how is DH's job situation going?


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## BelleNuit

OMG I am freaking out. Freaking out. AF is late, I'm on day 30. I've never gone beyond 28 days before (ever). And my spotting fricken stopped. It stopped. I've never had spotting stop before. I can't test till tomorrow. Test was negative on Friday. With the spotting and AF cramps I thought for sure AF was coming. Now I don't know what to think


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## Ask4joy

That&#8217;s great LAR! I think you should totally go for mini-IVF if your insurance covers it and you are a candidate. Not that my insurance covered my IVF cycle but if it had we may have gone with it a little sooner.

DH and I are thinking 2 or 3, but who knows! He is 1 of 8 children and always wanted a big family for himself. I think 4 would be my limit. :) If we are lucky we will end up with 10 or 11 blastocysts to send for PGS testing and half of those will be PGS normal (IF we are lucky)! There is also the risk of losing some as a result of the biopsies, freezing and thawing, but that risk is small. We decided that if we have extra embryos after our family is complete we will donate them to a couple in need. If all goes well we will be doing a FET around mid December.

My sister in law is doing a little better for the time-being. As you know the cancer was progressing even further and her last resort was this brand new first in humans trial drug which she started a few weeks ago. She is already able to be off of oxygen support and said she is feeling pretty good. Fingers crossed her next scan shows stability or even improvement. Thank you for asking!

DH started a new job in August and is very happy there. It&#8217;s a much better work environment and he is treated much better. I&#8217;m so glad because he was pretty unhappy at his last job but didn&#8217;t want to leave until he had no choice.

I just realized I created this thread (well, the original one before we moved it to LTTTC) over a year ago. Crazy! I sure didn&#8217;t expect to still be here over a year after starting Clomid but I&#8217;m really glad I&#8217;ve gotten to know you ladies and that we have been able to support each other through some tough times. Hoping 2018 is our lucky year!


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## Ask4joy

Ahh Belle I just read your post! That is sooo encouraging! Can&#8217;t wait until you can test again! Crossing everything for you!


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## red_head

Belle that's very exciting!! finger crossed for you!! I am for sure going to try some of your supplements!!! :)

Ask sorry to hear about your sister in law - I didn't know she was ill. That trial sounds very encouraging. It's so amazing what they can do nowadays! I think it's really lovely that you are thinking of donating embryos - I am sure that karma knows things like that and will take that into account! You deserve this to work and I really hope it does! 

I've finally caved and started a ltttc journal :/ might stop me ranting and rambling everywhere else!! 

x


----------



## Ask4joy

Thanks Red, that is so sweet of you. 

Can you post the link to your journal? I&#8217;ll definitely follow!


----------



## BelleNuit

Red having a journal is awesome. I obsess and rant all over mine lol.


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## red_head

Thank you :) crazily I'd avoided that part of the forum as I just didn't want to accept I needed to be in there! I'm insane lol! I think it'll be good for me though :) 
Here's the link (I think!)
https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/ltttc-journals/2448675-hoping-our-bean-four-years-counting.html


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## Pinkee

I hope and hope and hope for you.


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## BelleNuit

Red when I first started on this site I thought FOR SURE I would be pregnant in a couple cycles. I remember feeling sorry for people who had been trying for so long.... most of those people are now pregnant or have already had their babies and here I am :haha: 

Thanks Pinkee! Unfortunately I've started spotting again. Its light, just a little red mixed in with cm and can only be seen on internal checks, but its there all the same. I'm feeling less confident as a result and I'm trying to prepare myself for a BFN tomorrow. Either way I'm thinking the herbs I'm on lengthened both my FP and my LP. I've never had a cycle this long in my entire life! And I even tracked AF as a teen LOL. So I'm trying to see the positives, even if its a BFN (which I feel really confident it will be).


----------



## Pinkee

Total bfn this am. Really hoping AF just rolls in quick, sometimes I have like 100 day cycles and I'm not really interested in waiting another 30 to 40 days to start my clomid.

Ask4joy- that's just fabulous, I am over the moon for you, what's next? do you decide your transfer day? are you choosing how many embryos to transfer? will you ask about the gender?:blush:

Belle you are still in my thoughts:flower:

Redhead I am going to be reading the journal sometime. I used to journal, no Idea how to track it down..but after reading my own journal myself I was super annoyed with my own ramblings I gave up 


steph1607 - when do you guys star? I kind of caught up on the ivf and egg share, but must have missed when things are kicking off for you guys.


----------



## BelleNuit

Thanks Pinkee, sorry for the BFN this AM. Not knowing when to expect AF is pretty frustrating.

Well I tested this AM, was negative I think. I posted pics over on my journal. I think I see something faint but could just be an indent. Either way AF is starting. I'm having much stronger cramping and heavier spotting. It should be here fully by this afternoon I expect.


----------



## smurphy90

Hi ladies,

FINALLY saw the tiniest amount of progress with my follicle growth. The "large" follicle in each ovary grew by 1mm in 2 days. That' means I now have a 10mm and an 11mm, hopefully pushing at least one into a growth spurt phase. I don't have high hopes for conception, but it's good to see that the Gonal-F is (probably) starting to have an effect.

I have scan #8 on Friday; continuing with 112.5iu/day until then.


----------



## BelleNuit

Great news Sara! It sounds like even if this cycle doesn't work out they'll know what dose to put you on next cycle which will make it worthwhile! I'm keeping my FX for you!


----------



## jwilly

Glad to hear that there was progression Sara!

Belle, sorry it looks like AF is on the way. Those few days in limbo at the end of a cycle are the worst days. But that is good news that your cycle is getting longer!


----------



## Ask4joy

That&#8217;s great news Sara!

Sorry about the BFN Pinkee. Sorry again Belle. :hugs:

Pinkee - since we are doing PGS and I still had a lot of embryos on day 3 they will continue to grow them until day 5 and day 6 blastocysts (some take 6 days to get there). The ones that reach blastocyst stage will be biopsied and frozen. The biopsied cells will be sent to a special lab and PGS testing will be performed - they are checking to see if each embryo has the correct number / arrangement of chromosomes. Due to the nature of the testing we will find out which are XX (girl) and XY (boy). We will follow the doctor&#8217;s recommendations on which to transfer in (probably) mid-December but DH is hoping for a girl since he already has 2 boys. :)


----------



## LAR83

Ask- so glad to hear that things are improving with your sister-in-law. I hope she continues to pull through and beat the odds. Glad to hear things are better with DH's job situation too. Things seem like they are looking up for you these days. :) 

AFM, my brother just called me today and said he and his wife are expecting their second child in April... so I am having a pity party for myself tonight. Of course he had to mention that they weren't planning it; they were thinking they would have the second a little later... but it just happened. Uggh... you know I struggle with fertility issues, did you really need to tell me it happened without even trying? I am the older sibling, but I always feel like he is ahead of me in life, and I am frustrated that I still have to wait several months to start trying again. Worst of all DH doesn't understand at all. He said, "shouldn't you feel happy for him?" Worst words ever!!! Sorry, I just had to vent. I don't even want to see my brother and his wife Christmas. I realize it sounds petty, but if anyone would understand, I thought it would be you girls.


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## BelleNuit

Oh man Lar do I ever understand. My younger brother just announced they're pregnancy over Thanksgiving dinner. I proceeded to get stinking drunk. They don't know we're dealing with infertility so it must have looked weird lol. To top it all off they're due date is my damn Birthday. And ya.. first cycle trying. Ugh.


----------



## LAR83

Oh I am so sorry Belle.... :( That totally sucks. I couldn't wait to get off the phone to cry, but being told in person would have been even worse because then I wouldn't have really been able to get away. I would have gotten drunk too probably. And for the due date to be your birthday! That's awful. I hope it doesn't actually land on your birthday. When is Thanksgiving in Canada? In the US it is in November. Didn't your brother's wife recently get pregnant and miscarry? This is a different brother? Also... wait... who the heck gets pregnant on the first cycle trying?!?!? Not fair!


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## Ask4joy

I&#8217;m sorry LAR. That&#8217;s so tough. My step sister who is 6 years younger than me announced her second pregnancy on Facebook a few days ago. I immediately unfollowed her (after giving a half-assed congratulations). Her twin sister gave birth in August to her first - she was married the same month as DH and I and was pregnant 4 months later and announced last Christmas Eve and I was so upset because we started trying when we got engaged. I refused to go to her baby shower (made up an excuse) and declined the invite to the other step-sister&#8217;s daughter&#8217;s 2nd birthday party next weekend - actually we are going away to celebrate a belated birthday for me since I was recovering from egg retrieval on mine! But I wouldn&#8217;t go anyway. I&#8217;m not close with them but it makes me sad that my mom will have 3 grandchildren from her step-daughters (who she refers to as her &#8220;daughters&#8221; and it always makes me feel like crap) before having any from her ONLY REAL daughter. Oh well. Glad we have each other to vent to!


----------



## Calibeachbum

Sorry girlies! I was super sick with strep throat. Then DH caught a cold from work. So we were not in the mood during O. We BD 8 days before O. So I&#8217;ll be lucky if I get a Bfp. Catching up on your posts.


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## Calibeachbum

I have dealt with the depression of infertility. I will never forget. DH and we&#8217;re trying for 2 years. His druggie brother and girlfriend needed a place to crash for a night. They announced their pregnancy. Why them? They don&#8217;t have jobs? On drugs. No stability. I locked myself in the bathroom bawling why not me? I don&#8217;t think I moved for 2 hours. Well now 5 years later, he&#8217;s in prison and doesn&#8217;t even talk to his child. I just don&#8217;t understand some days.

I was not open about our infertility when ttc DS.. Because some people don&#8217;t understand. They think we are &#8220;trying&#8221; to hard. My MIL had 5 kids and she was always like, just relax and it will happen. No, it takes dr appts, fertility tests, being poked and stabbed with no hopeful results. I&#8217;m now open about my struggle in hopes it will bring light to others coping with or understanding infertility.


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## red_head

Sara you must be so relieved things are moving in the right direction now! Good luck!

Ask - I didn't know you could find out the sex before they were implanted! That's so interesting! It sounds like things are going so well for you. 

Lar -I totally understand what you mean. I don't have Facebook anymore as I just don't want to see scan pictures and babies! Most of our friends are now on their 'second round' of children, and we started trying for the first at the same time they did, and before some of them! I have let friendships fizzle out a bit in some cases as I just can't deal! Although my sister in law recently announced at 7 weeks as she thought everything would be fine with the second, but then they found out there may be issues and were having to make decisions about possibly aborting. It was such a sad time for them, I would have given anything to help, and thank fully everything turned out okay. 

Belle I'm so sorry AF got you, although I think it is so positive that things have changed so much using the supplements! It's been so quick and obviously is making a real difference!

Cali - that's such a shame you were so ill! It does feel like the universe is consipring against us sometimes! But perhaps you ovulated early or late - you never know. That's so awful about your brother in law. It isn't right or fair at all. But I'm sure we'll get there eventually: 

No update from me - I've got spots (yeuk) which I only get incredibly rarely when I am super hormonal, but no AF and I've got no more tests and I'm not getting any as I'm sure I'm not pregnant this month. I'm sure the witch wil be here soon :( 
X


----------



## LAR83

Thanks for the support everyone. I am feeling a little better about it now... it is just that the initial announcement gave me a jolt of emotion, but I cant let myself stay mad over it. I am trying to focus on myself and planning for my next steps in this fertility process. I still dont know if I want to see them for christmas. I feel like I should bc I rarely see them and they are moving to another country in a month and will be back in the US visiting for Christmas and wont be back again for a while.... but I am not sure yet if I want to put myself through that.


----------



## BelleNuit

Hey Lar yes same brother. They miscarried in July at 6 weeks and got pregnant that first month trying as well. Then they took a break and got pregnant again first month. FML lol. Nothing quite like that to make you feel super infertile.

Maybe by Christmas you will be more used to the idea and it will be easier to see them. I hate to say it but I don't see a way out of it!

Red I sure hope things start to make sense soon!

I'm on day 4, AF will probably be a super light flow today


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## Pinkee

Finally got AF, that was forever. I'll give a proper update tonight.


----------



## Pinkee

LAR83 - super sorry to hear that.

Calibeachbum- I actually went through the same scenario, same. scenario. they didn't even want to be together either and it torn me in half.

Belle- sorry to hear af got you.

smurphy90- update on last scan?

Red - caught the tail end of your journal, any more tests or spotting?



AFM - I am CD2 now. a 66 day cycle has finally come to an end and I will start my clomid tomorrow. my BFF is also ttc and I think her cycle is what set mine to sinc as she is CD3. I 100% am uncomfortable with us both trying at the same time as she is competitive, and isn't aware I was going to start clomid. 
DD had also pulled out an unopened FRER out of my purse at football game in front of her and my mother, I was mortified!!! I like to keep my ttc struggles to myself. I tried to play it off like it was a tampon but pretty clear no one bought it. It hasn't been brought up but I just feel really insecure about it now.


----------



## greenarcher

Just having a frer shouldn't make you feel awkward. That doesn't show struggles, just that you are TTC. Though if they don't know you're TTC, I can see the awkwrdness in that. 

Belle told me I should look at joining this thread, so I hope you guys don't mind an extra person around. A little about me - we've been actively TTC for 18 months. Just now starting to get testing done officially. Unofficially, I bought a microscope to check out DH, and he was on the normal-low side, and has super viscous semen. I had temped for a little while and thought I was ovulating regularly, but now I'm not so sure as my periods are REALLY light and short. I'm starting progesterone testing, and OH has been given the go ahead to do a real SA. I was wondering if any ladies on here had fairly regular cycles, but after testing found out you actually hadn't been ovulating. 

I went to my BFF's baby shower yesterday, and I am so unbelievably happy for her. She's due in less than 2 months. We started TTC around the same time, and she had two MC before working with a DR to make sure this one stuck. We really wanted to have "cousins" around the same age. She is probably the one person in my life that I could not begrudge a pregnancy. 

Would you guys mind giving me an intro into your stories? Sorry if you have to do this for all the new posters! I only really know Belle here.


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## BelleNuit

Welcome Green, so glad you made the jump over :) I'd say a lot of the people here are new-ish posters to the thread so this is a good time to join in!

Pinkee I would be embarrassed by that too. I think if I were you I wouldn't tell my friend that I was ttc... especially if she really is that competitive! I know I felt pretty competitive when we first started trying... because I naively believed it would happen right away LOL. So glad that AF finally showed for you and that now you can get started with the clomid!

I'm CD 6 today, AF has stopped, so I'm going to start my first castor oil pack tonight! At the very least I think it will be something that I find relaxing.


----------



## Pinkee

I am a newbie here too. Having the frer wasn't the actual thing that made me feel insecure, its now people are aware of is ttc, and if it grows into 3 months later the questions and advice start.

My story: the short version.
Dh and I got together in 2004, quickly moved into together and got engaged, 2007 he was diagnosed with testicular cancer, we married and began treatment the very next day. After 3 surgeries(orchieotomy, lymph dissection, retroperitoneal lymph node dissecrion), and 9 months of chemo he was given a clean bill of health. We took the recommendation of waiting 2 years post chemo before ttc. although his sperm count was low and I had been diagnosed with pcos we began ttc for 2 years before having intervention, then spent the next few years aggressively ttc with 2 mc before we conceived our daughter. She's two now and we are beginning the journey for #2


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## greenarcher

Congrats on your first, and beating cancer! What kind of intervention did you have for your DD (if you don't mind me asking)?


----------



## Ask4joy

Welcome Green!

I&#8217;m pretty sure I ovulate every month but never had a cd21 progesterone test. None of my doctors ever thought it was necessary. I tracked my temps for a year and always had a sustained temp spike after getting a positive ovulation test and my periods are moderately heavy for the first two days. Nonetheless I find it kinda strange that none of my docs wanted to check my post-ovulation progesterone levels.

As for me - DH and I have been TTC for 19 months. I&#8217;ve had 3 CPs in that time and after extensive testing found out that both DH and I have abnormal karyotypes (chromosome structures). DH has 2 healthy children and his karyotype is considered a normal variant in the population and not known to cause infertility or health issues. Mine on the other hand could be contributing. We just completed an IVF cycle and are now waiting for our PGS results to screen the embryos for chromosome abnormalities. I responded very well to IVF (even better than expected) and we now have 16 frozen embryos. If all goes well we will be doing a FET in December!


----------



## BelleNuit

Oh ya, I see where you are coming from with that Pinkee. I really struggle with the unwanted advice and comments. I've actually just started telling the worst offenders that I appreciate they are trying to help, and then give them suggestions for things that actually would be helpful for me. That seems to have gone over well the couple times I've done it.


----------



## Ask4joy

Pinkee - sorry that you had that awkward experience. Having a preg test doesn&#8217;t mean you are actively TTC - it could just mean AF was late and you wanted to test! Yes they will wonder but that&#8217;s all they can do - wonder!


----------



## greenarcher

Ask - wow! That's a lot of embryos! Congrats!! That's very exciting for yall! Abnormalities are not fun, but glad you found out about them so you can screen for them before transfer.


----------



## jwilly

Hi Green! I think we may have been on a TTC thread a few years back? Sorry to see you are here :hugs:

My story- DH and I have been trying since April 2015. We had an ectopic pregnancy in May 2016, and nothing since then. We had one failed IUI cycle last month, now waiting for our appointment this Thursday with our RE to discuss the next steps. I have a blocked tube that looks like it could be a hydro. Just waiting to see if the next step will be surgery to remove it!

Ask, holy crow! I must have missed your post after your retrieval. That's an amazing number!


----------



## smurphy90

Hi ladies,

Sorry again for not popping in more. I do read the thread and I hope everything's going well with everyone.

We had scan #8 on Friday and we saw a little bit more growth (L=12mm, R=11mm.) The doctor increased my gonal-f dose to 125iu/day and I had scan number 9 today and....... I CAN TRIGGER TOMORROW!

Today the right follie was 17mm and the left was 15. I'm doing one more dose of 125iu tonight (hoping that lefty catches up so we have a better shot) and then I can trigger tomorrow night!

I'm so relieved to finally be done with this phase. I'll go in for HCG blood tests on Nov 6th, if no AF. We have an appointment for Nov 9th, at which we'll either have a pregnancy ultrasound or discuss the treatment plan for next cycle. Fingers crossed!

I think I'm going to temp again now. I don't need FF to really tell me which date I ovulate, but I do like seeing whether there's a dip or not a day or two before AF.


----------



## jwilly

Yay to trigger day! :happydance: That growth is great Sara!


----------



## BelleNuit

Great news Sara!! Happy trigger! Just to add, when I temped through my trigger/treatment cycles my temps went haywire and actually couldn't confirm O, even though I triggered and new by blood test that I had O'd. I think the meds can make bbt a little crazy sometimes!


----------



## Ask4joy

Congrats Sara! The trigger also helps them grow too so it looks like youll ovulate both! Now you know what dose works for you too but hopefully this will be your lucky cycle!


----------



## greenarcher

Yay for trigger day! Are you doing a IUI? 

Jwilly - I remember you as well! It's nice to see familiar faces


----------



## smurphy90

green - No, we're just doing TI this cycle. DH's SA came back on the low side of normal last time though, so depending on his next one we may move onto IUI. He'll probably have another at the beginning of my next cycle.


----------



## Pinkee

greenarcher said:


> Congrats on your first, and beating cancer! What kind of intervention did you have for your DD (if you don't mind me asking)?

He's on supplements and I'm taking clomid to ovulate.


----------



## greenarcher

Ugh, I had a blood draw for my 21 day test (actually CD 27 because my cycles are normally 31-35 days long). So, of course, guess whose period decided to come early? Or at least it's trying. It keeps starting a bright red bleed, then stopping on its own and just being brown. Yesterday and today it's done that


----------



## BelleNuit

So frustrating Green!! 

I'm CD 9 today, so fertile days should start tomorrow. I'll start OPKs and temping again. I've been using castor oil packs as well. I'm not expecting anything, but I guess we'll give it a good try either way! Mostly I'm curious to see how the herbs have changed my O date/LP


----------



## greenarcher

Prog was 2ng, negative for ovulation, except it was drawn on the last day of my surprisingly short cycle. 

I've got another test ordered next month. I bought some maca, do you think I should take it while I'm waiting for these tests? Or add it after the untreated test result is still negative?


----------



## Pinkee

BelleNuit said:


> I've been using castor oil packs as well. I'm not expecting anything, but I guess we'll give it a good try either way!



Could you explain the castor pack benefit or link me up?


----------



## BelleNuit

It's supposed to help with circulation and developing a thick lining. I have problems with both circulation and thin linings so i do any little bit to help with that


----------



## smurphy90

Hi ladies! 

I'm pretty sure I O'd yesterday, as I got my usual cramping! I'm also pretty sure that I got both follies, because I had cramping on both sides at different times of day. Fingers crossed that the lefty plumped up and we got both!

I decided not to temp, since my sleep has been weird. I also didn't really want the added stress. I'll have a blood draw on Tuesday to see my progesterone levels and I already have an RX in case I need a supplement. I don't think I will because my progesterone has always been fine in the past, but it's good to have in case the medicated cycle changed that for some reason. My lining was also 11mm on Monday, so I decided not to do anything that encourages growth like pineapple or baby asprin. Fingers and toes crossed!


----------



## BelleNuit

All sounding good Sara! If you got both eggs your progesterone should be even higher than normal! Welcome to the tww!


----------



## Pinkee

Got through the clomid doses.
Now just waiting to O...


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## BelleNuit

Great Pinkee :) One step down!

I got a positive OPK yesterday, so I could O today or tomorrow. I'm hoping it will be tomorrow because I'm only CD 12 today!


----------



## smurphy90

Hi ladies!

I got my progesterone test done today and it came back at 13mg/mL.
The nurse's notes said that the doctor said I didn't need to take the progesterone prescription if it was about 10. Google hasn't been my friend though, because most people say that 15 is a better number for a pregnancy to happen.

I am wondering though, if it will increase to over 15 in the next few days because technically I'm only 5dpo and I think the optimal blood test is done at 7dpo.

Any thoughts?


----------



## BelleNuit

I'd say your progesterone will probably keep increasing. Congrats on confirmation on O!


----------



## smurphy90

Thank Belle! How's your cycle going?

This tww is so slow! (Aren't they all?)
Praying at least one of those eggs fertilized!


----------



## BelleNuit

Well you had one heck of a wait before your tww started Sara!

I'm 3-4 dpo today. Feeling normal! I don't usually pay too much attention to my tww anymore because I expect AF to show anyway haha


----------



## Ask4joy

Hi ladies - I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve updated in here recently so thought I&#8217;d share our news: 5 of our 16 embryos are normal and my FET is scheduled for December 4th. Feeling excited but also very nervous!

Next week I go in for a hysteroscopy which I&#8217;m very afraid of because the HSG and saline sonogram hurt so bad...but with this they only use a little fluid and insert a tiny camera so maybe it won&#8217;t be as painful without all that fluid being pushed into my uterus.

Sara - so exciting! When will you test? And yes I think progesterone reaches peak around 7dpo. 

Pinkee - hope you don&#8217;t have to wait too long! I generally Od later than normal on clomid.

Belle - always fx that this is your lucky month! I think if DH and I kept trying long enough I&#8217;d eventually have a healthy pregnancy but with 24 mature eggs and only 5 normal embryos, who knows how long that could have taken when you consider all the factors and odds. Hoping you get your surprise bfp - you have age and time on your side!


----------



## BelleNuit

Thanks Ask. I'm very happy about your news. Time will fly and in the meantime enjoy everything you wouldn't be able to do if you were pregnant :)

I'm not feeling quite so confident about a surprise bfp since I've never been pregnant, but stranger things have happened I suppose. In number of cycles we have been trying for 2 years. I was reading that only 5-6% of people aren't pregnant after 2 years of trying and that 2-3% of people are truly infertile and may never conceive. Such a bummer. 

Sorry I've been feeling down lately. Brothers wife announced their pregnancy on Facebook yesterday. Apparently they had a very difficult 2 months after their miscarriage. Before immediately becoming pregnant again. I just can't take it seriously. Yes mc is awful, but they hadn't been trying long enough to really appreciate it. I may be biased but I think my situation or RPL is far more devastating.

Lately I've been thinking about doing the IVF I'm April and doing a freeze all so that we have some time to pay down the cost of the procedure before (ideally/hopefully) getting pregnant. I feel like the process of getting pregnant has been so difficult that I haven't really considered what we would do if it did happen lol.

Must be in my tww because I'm feeling moody again!


----------



## Ask4joy

Those are pretty grim statistics Belle but I do think IVF is going to work for you. As you know there are many stories of people trying for years without a single pregnancy and then have great success with IVF. I&#8217;m guessing that 2-3% probably have known major causes of infertility and that very few in that category are unexplained, but I could be wrong! Still, it sucks to have to go through all this and to have to spend your life savings and then some to try to make a baby. This better freakin work!


----------



## smurphy90

Belle &#8211; Fingers crossed for you. I hope it doesn&#8217;t come to it, but I think IVF could really work.

Ask &#8211; Glad to hear you have 5 good embies! Good luck with the hysteroscopy.
AFM &#8211; I&#8217;m usually not too hyped up during my tww, because I just don&#8217;t expect anything to happen, but I think I&#8217;m more hopeful than I&#8217;d like to be because it&#8217;s the first medicated cycle. I try to keep my hopes in check, but then that backfires into complete pessimism. I wish a middle-ground existed. Haha

I&#8217;m not going to test until Nov 4th. I don&#8217;t know if the medicated cycle will change my LP, but it&#8217;s usually 15 days, so I should get AF on the 4th.


----------



## Pinkee

Ask - still magnificent amount you got there. and now that you have a date, wooo! exciting. I hope your hysteroscopy goes well and painless.

greenarcher- never tried maca, I hear a lot of girls swear by it. I did do the Soy Isoflavones and it screwed my cycles up really bad, and for months. 



smurphy90- I know a lady in Australia who had a progesterone test at 6mg/mL, and got a bfp at 10dpo. We were all super baffled its been really great though. Her doctor flat out told her she didn't ovulate and tada.


Belle- I don't know who fills out those statistics but I have been here for years and seen girls who ttc 3-9 years finally get a bfp. Bodies change so much and adapt, and we have so many supplements and interventions it's hard to take those seriously. I think you just have to write your own story :flower:

Me- I am so moody and anxious. I don't know how we are going to BD when I am compelled to argue over socks on the floor. Taking opks and nothing yet, so there's still hope :p When I got pregnant with Charlotte my positive opk was on CD17.


----------



## red_head

Hey guys, sorry I&#8217;ve been a bit quiet, just trying to give my brain a rest from baby thinking! This is my last cycle of clomid so fingers crossed, although I&#8217;m not holding out much hope. I go back to the fertility doctor in a couple weeks so will make a plan about how to move forward then, although from December we were going to stop trying, but I don&#8217;t know if I can bring myself to go through with it! 
Ask I am so excited for you it&#8217;s ridiculous! I have nothing but positive vibes and premonitions for you! I had a horrible hsg (although it was more the scenario and after effects that were bad than the pain from the procedure) - I know it&#8217;s not the same but similar so I know it&#8217;s nerve wracking, but I&#8217;m sure it will be worth it. 
Sara I know it&#8217;s hard getting your hopes up, and every step we take closer makes it harder to control the optimism, but even if this isn&#8217;t the month, I&#8217;ve told myself that each month is my body gettin more and more ready for it! Fingers crossed for you! 
Pinkee - you made me really laugh with your post - I get so grumpy at ovulation time it&#8217;s ridiculous - plus I have cried after sex round that time so many times!! I just start blubbing after, while laying with my legs and butt in the air wailing about how I hope his swimmers like me!!. My poor husband! Haha - luckily I&#8217;m in the moment during the deed so the crying only starts after!! In fact the only time I don&#8217;t seem to be emotional is when I&#8217;m on my period!! Lol!
Belle -I was debating whether to say all this or not - I hope you don&#8217;t take it wrong but I was upset by what you put before - my second miscarriage was without doubt the worst most devastating thing I have ever experienced in my life, and like ltttc, you can&#8217;t imagine what it&#8217;s like unless you&#8217;ve been through it (and I say what as someone who was diagnosed with ptsd following trauma in my teens). Even being pregnant for a day, no matter how long you&#8217;ve been trying (and even if you haven&#8217;t been actively trying long, a lot of people spend their lives waiting for the time they do start anyway), all your hopes and dreams and your future is in that pregnancy. To then have to literally pass that out your body, feel it disappearing from you and flush it away down the toilet is truly horrific, plus all the tests and scans that follow. Everyone has their own tolerances and ways of experiencing and coping with pain, so even though it may seem they&#8217;ve had it easy compared to you, you don&#8217;t know what it would be like in each others shoes. This experience is nerve wracking and hard for everyone no matter how easy it may seem, and all we can do is support each other. The statistics are scary but often inaccurate and so many people have happy endings - we had a period of around three years with no pregnancies, so don&#8217;t discount yourself - you never know what&#8217;s going to happen. Things really seem to be moving in a positive direction for you, so I&#8217;m sending lots of positive energy your way!


----------



## BelleNuit

Red I am not speaking to your situation and I am sorry you took what I said so personally.

I am venting about my brother and his wife. These are two people who should not have children. I was relieved when they miscarried the first time. This is not a happy pregnancy situation. I am jealous as to the support that is offered to people who miscarry. It's not there for people like me who go on and on and on with nothing. I don't think their pain is comparable to mine (as in my brother). They got pregnant after the first month trying, miscarried and got pregnant again the next month. In my mind that takes away a lot of that pain. Sure it hurt a lot in the moment, but it was quickly replaced with a new healthy pregnancy. This may not be a popular opinion but I am not here to debate or defend my opinion. I don't care if this makes me sound like a horrible person because I already feel like a horrible person. Infertility is destroying me and nobody fucking cares. But they swooned all over her for her miscarriage. Fuck it and fuck her.

And I do not accept being an aunt as some sort of consolation prize. I want nothing to do with their baby. In fact I will probably avoid or get blasted drunk at future family events. I am devastated and I am angry. So damn angry. But I'm just supposed to take it and take it and take it. I would welcome a miscarriage if it meant I would have a healthy pregnancy the very next month. Sign me up.


----------



## red_head

You aren&#8217;t alone in this, and we all care. None of us are horrible, we&#8217;re just reacting to a horrible situation, but comparing or judging others experience just causes more pain, whether you think you know the ins and outs or not. What you&#8217;ve said has got under my skin and I apologise if I responded too strongly or read into it wrongly. Obviously the nature of what we&#8217;re going through causes heightened emotions and I let mine get away with me.


----------



## BelleNuit

Well I'm not doing it to their face or to anyone I know. I'm expressing the way I feel on an anonymous chat forum because otherwise I will be eaten alive. I will not apologize for how I feel. I feel my situation is worse than theirs, 100 times over. I would trade spots with them. In an instant.


----------



## Ask4joy

I understand needing a place to vent, Belle. And I understand feeling like the pain of nothing is worse than the pain of losing something...my pregnancies were so brief that I didn&#8217;t get any sympathy really from close friends or family that I told about them. I&#8217;d get comments like, &#8220;well you tested so early...&#8221; or &#8220;the tests are just so sensitivite now...&#8221;. Finding out you are pregnant and losing that pregnancy is completely heart breaking, but so is never getting pregnant when that&#8217;s all you want. Both can be very dark and depressing places. It&#8217;s okay to feel angry and vent here. :hugs:


----------



## BelleNuit

Thank you Ask. I'm obviously not in a good place with their pregnancy and I'm lashing out on here because I feel like it's a safe space. So thank you for holding that space for me.


----------



## HollyDaisy

Belle, I completely understand your anger and pain. We're all going through this pain together and in different ways, so we shouldn't compare our situations or judge one another's situations. Trust me, I understand your anger but try not to stress yourself out. It's not healthy for you or your body, you know? I've miscarried two years ago and been TTC since and both miscarriage and now infertility have been devastating so I understand both sides of road. We just need to support one another. We are all on different paths and we are all hurting in one way or another. I'm praying for you and for some GREAT news soon! Baby vibes your way!


----------



## Ask4joy

Unfortunately my DH got the brunt of my lashing out over the last year and a half. I am finally starting to turn a corner with the success so far with IVF. The optimism I&#8217;m starting to feel now is making me see just how angry and depressed I was and how physically and mentally unwell I was as a result of it.


----------



## BelleNuit

I do think having some success takes away some of that pain. 

Just to be clear I never said mc wasn't devastating. It is. All I've said is that my SIL complaining on Facebook about her difficult two months was upsetting for me because we've been struggling with this for two years. Two difficult months in no way compares. I would so take on two heart wrenching months and give up the slow defeat that is infertility. I've never seen a positive. There has been no relief for me from all of this. There has been nothing to give me hope along the way. Last month when my period was late, I hoped that it was a chemical because at least that was something. At least that would be progress. At least then I could hope that maybe it could happen again. 

I am not comparing myself to anyone on here and 100% I am here to support each and every one of you, even if our journeys don't look the same. 

I am simply voicing my frustration over this situation.


----------



## red_head

This is a safe space for everyone. 
Hearing that miscarriage breaks up the monotony of infertility is hurtful, and not something I expected to hear here, but I can understand your point of view even if I don&#8217;t agree. 
I apologise for my reaction - this is an emotive subject and obviously my hormones are raging. I apologise for what I&#8217;ve said and upsetting you, and hope we can avoid this subject here in future please and try to be considerate of each other&#8217;s opinion.


----------



## Ask4joy

I agree Red, MC does not make infertility any more comforting or encouraging. Especially when you have repeat losses. Because of my losses I will probably never be able to enjoy a pregnancy until I&#8217;m well into my 2nd trimester. None of this stuff is easy. None of us asked for this. And pain, whether physical or emotional is incredibly subjective. I try not to take what anyone says here too personally as I know we are all fighting our own battles and need this space to help us through.

Most likely Belle, you have had losses in the last 2 years. Maybe they never implanted or maybe your hcg never got high enough to detect (you were never one to test early). 

Infertility is so deeply and personally painful. It makes me question my whole purpose and worth at times. I&#8217;m glad we have each other. :hugs:


----------



## red_head

Thanks Ask I agree with you completely. 

I saw that you&#8217;ve chosen to have a girl the first time! That&#8217;s so exciting and lovely! I think I would have made the same decision! 

I&#8217;m finding I&#8217;m coping with the clomid much better this month, and not having too many side effects as yet, although they do seem to get worse as the month goes on. I&#8217;m already having some pain in my ovaries so hopefully that means some eggs are growing! It does make me feel like a chicken saying that! So weird: who&#8217;d have thought we would need to think about this stuff. I remember losing my shit as a teen when I forgot to take a pill, the shame of going to the pharmacy to get the morning after pill, the terror it wouldn&#8217;t work! One of my friends had unprotected sex when her period was already late (we had no clue about ovulation times and infertile cm then!) and (and this is awful) I shoplifted a pregnancy test from boots for her! I was about 14, and the alarms went off - I legged it to MacDonald&#8217;s where we hid in the loo while she did the test! God if I&#8217;d known then how hard this all was!! lol! The fear of getting caught shoplifting, and shoplifting a bloody pregnancy test! My parents would have killed me! Lol! Crazy. I was so naive (and awful!)!


----------



## Ask4joy

I can relate, Red! I used the morning after pill several times myself in my 20s. I was terrified of an unplanned pregnancy! I hadn&#8217;t been on birth control in 10 years until starting IVF (never liked the side effects) and it&#8217;s so strange taking it now to help me get pregnant! 

Glad you aren&#8217;t having too many side effects this month! FX you&#8217;ll grow a couple of good eggies!

I&#8217;m excited to transfer a girl too (although I haven&#8217;t spoken to the embryologist about it yet - going to call today). I already started buying a few things for the nursery. I know I shouldn&#8217;t get ahead of myself but they were good sales! :)


----------



## red_head

I dont think its getting ahead of yourself! If theres one thing this journey is good for, its preparation!!! Lol! I have a few bits in a draw upstairs (my favourite of which is an iron maiden baby grow! Lol!)
I dont know a lot about IVF - do you transfer one embaby or can you chose to do more than one?


----------



## BelleNuit

Thats fine. I was just expressing how I felt, and it's okay if you feel differently. 

But to be clear, everything I say seems to get twisted to be the worst possible version. I never said that MC breaks up the monotomy of infertility. All I said was that I wanted to have hope again. I will post on my journal from now on. It is clear that I won't find support here any longer. I wish you all the best on your journeys.

Goodbye


----------



## red_head

I'm the only one who took issue, no one else - and I have apologised for this. You've said some nasty things which upset me - your words haven't been twisted, at most they've been paraphrased - you won't apologise or even consider someone else's point of view, so if you want to go, despite everyone else here caring for you, and being nothing but supportive, that's your decision. I did try to move forward.


----------



## BelleNuit

You're right red. I'm in a pissy mood because we are nearing our two year mark and I am being devoured by jealousy. Regardless, I don't think shared chat groups are the best place for me right now. I will probably just continue to lash out at everyone to vent my anger over my situation.


----------



## BelleNuit

So people are welcome to follow my journal if they want. Be forewarned I will likely be bad mannered, at least for the time being. I believe I am already following most people's journals on this group as it is.


----------



## smurphy90

AF came 5 days early. The injects seemed to make my LP much shorter... it's usually 15 days and this time it was only 11. :(


----------



## Ask4joy

So sorry Sara. Maybe your RE can put you on progesterone next cycle?


----------



## smurphy90

I had an Rx for it this cycle, but when my 5dpo result was 13 she said I didn't need it, so I didn't take it. Maybe I should have.


----------



## Ask4joy

It can&#8217;t hurt! 11 days is a bit short since implantation can be anywhere between 6-12dpo. I will be starting intramuscular progesterone injections in a few weeks...the needles are 1.5 inches long and thick. Oh my. :nope:


----------



## steph1607

Hey ladies!

Sorry AF came Sara. Like Ask said, can't hurt to try something different for your next cycle?

Ahhh Ask, that sent shivers down my spine :haha: Hubby and I had our final pre-IVF appointment last Friday (SIS and Pipelle procedures were HORRENDOUS!), and the doctor asked me whether I wanted progesterone injections or suppositories, and I plumped for the injections! I stop taking the pill this Sunday, and then if AF arrives like it should, I will be going to the clinic next Friday for my baseline scan and to get and begin all my medications. Scary stuff!

How are you feeling about this next one?


----------



## Ask4joy

Steph - if I were given the choice I&#8217;d choose suppositories! I did them before and they didn&#8217;t bother me much. So excited for you to start IVF! I&#8217;m glad we are through stims and egg retrieval (they weren&#8217;t as bad as I anticipated but I did get mild OHSS and was in a lot of pain and discomfort after retrieval...they got 33 eggs!). Transfer is December 4th - we are transferring our best looking PGS normal embryo - a girl! I&#8217;m excited and oh so nervous! I want to bring her home soooo much. Praying and hoping hard!


----------



## smurphy90

Hi ladies!

Had my first appointment with the RE for this cycle. She found a corpus luteum cyst but she wasn't concerned about it. She said it was small at 13mm. I'm starting 100iu Gonal-F tonight and will see her against next Tuesday. We'll also go over DH's SA then. If the results are similar, or worse, we'll be doing IUI next cycle.

So... that's all. Hope you ladies are doing well.

Edit: Oh! I forgot to mention: She was really pleased with my 5po progesterone but said we can supplement this cycle if we want to, since my LP was relatively short.


----------



## greenarcher

7 dpo, going to get another progesterone draw today!


----------



## red_head

Good luck green archer :) I got mine back at 60 this month so I&#8217;m really pleased. This 2ww is killing me though! Xx

Sarah that all sounds like things are moving in the right direction? I don&#8217;t know much about those cysts but I&#8217;ve seen other people on here get pregnant with them.


----------



## greenarcher

12.3 is good enough, right?


----------



## smurphy90

This thread has kind of died, but I'll update anyway.

CD 17 today and ~2 days since my last US. My follie grew by ~4.5mm, making it ~16.5mm today. I'll do one more dose of Gonal-F tonight and pull the trigger tomorrow, which is great because DH gets back from his business trip tomorrow!

I also will take progesterone this cycle, since that 11 day LP was too short for my comfort.


----------



## Ask4joy

That&#8217;s good news, Sara! Will you be doing pio shots or suppositories?

2.5 weeks until my transfer - started estrogen yesterday. Eeek! :)


----------



## smurphy90

Ask - I'll be doing suppositories. Yay! Your transfer is so close!


----------



## smurphy90

Hey ladies,

I'm suddenly very nervous about the plan for progesterone suppositories. My RE said to take the for 15 days (starting yesterday, 2dpt) and to come in for an HCG blood test two days after stopping. 

I'm definitely not an expert, but isn't it a bad idea to stop progesterone cold-turkey if you _are_ pregnant? Should I call and ask the doctor about it? Does anyone have more knowledge about this and might be able to share some insight?


----------



## Ask4joy

Are you sure they said two days after stopping? Yes I agree that is odd. I wouldn&#8217;t stop until after a negative beta. It can cause miscarriage if you have a sudden drop.


----------



## Pinkee

smurphy90 said:


> Hey ladies,
> 
> I'm suddenly very nervous about the plan for progesterone suppositories. My RE said to take the for 15 days (starting yesterday, 2dpt) and to come in for an HCG blood test two days after stopping.
> 
> I'm definitely not an expert, but isn't it a bad idea to stop progesterone cold-turkey if you _are_ pregnant? Should I call and ask the doctor about it? Does anyone have more knowledge about this and might be able to share some insight?



Did you ask?


----------



## Pinkee

CD2


Not looking forward to a clomid Thanksgiving lol

Side note - I joined a few clomid facebook groups and oh boy.

Regret city. I am too hormonal to be nice to some of those ladies I couldn't believe some of the things they came up with, mostly women who were buying drugs online and self medicating and were listening to their "cousins" on what works.


----------



## smurphy90

We're calling the clinic today to check. We've already decided though that even if she did say to stop two days before the blood test, I'm not going to. I'm not risking a miscarriage when all it could do is delay AF by a day or two. No harm in that.

Pinkee - I hear you about FB groups. I joined a ton of TTC groups (focused on various things like Clomid or PCOS, etc.) and I honestly got tired of repeating myself telling people what was dangerous, what wasn't a good idea (such as self-medicating), etc. I'm not trying to sound judgmental, but most people that I encountered where very uneducated about it *and* weren't interested in hearing anything contrary to what they _wanted_ to hear. Being uneducated is fine: we all were at one point. But proceeding with dangerous things and refusing to learn is just stupid. It got infuriating, so I left all of them. Now I'm just on here, on a PCOS related site, and on Instagram (which has an awesome TTC community, btw).


----------



## smurphy90

We called the clinic today and I did hear her correctly. She said to take the progesterone for 15 days, stop for one day and then come in for the blood test (which effectively means 2 days without progesterone). DH then said that I had concerns about that and they said it's fine to keep taking them until a negative test, if I want to so that's what I'm going to do.


----------



## Ask4joy

That&#8217;s good Sara. I usually took it until 16dpo and if my FRER was totally negative at 16dpo I stopped.


----------



## Pinkee

So that would make you 6dpt today. is that the same as 6dpo or 5dpo?
Either way I really hope this is it for you!

Where's greenarcher?

Ask4 have you got a date for your IMPIs?



I just started 150mg Clomid tonight. An increase from last month.:wacko:


----------



## Ask4joy

Pinkee - I hope the 150 does it for you! 

Everything is on track for our Dec. 4th transfer as far as I know! I&#8217;ve been on estrogen pills for over a week now and have 4 more days of Lupron injections before starting progesterone injections. Next ultrasound is Nov. 28th to check blood levels and lining. Hopefully it&#8217;s nice and thick!


----------



## smurphy90

Pinkee - I'm not sure exactly what dpo I am. Last month I'm pretty sure I O'd 2 dpt because I got O cramps. This month I didn't have any cramps though, so I'm 5-6dpo, not sure.

Ask - Getting close to transfer. That's so exciting. Hopefully you get great news on the 28th.


----------



## greenarcher

Transfer will be exciting! 

I'm here. Another month without a second line


----------



## BelleNuit

Hey so DH and I have decided to stop ttc. I can't take anymore of this, and I've felt so good about getting back to living my life.

That said I am happy to follow along you ladies on your journey and offer support where I can. I can say overall that I am in a much better headspace than what I was a month ago.

Green sorry about another BFN. I expect AF will show tomorrow for me which will mark the end of ttc for us.

Ask good luck with transfer!

Sara I hope the tww flies by for you!

Pinkee, I hope the extra clomid will do the trick for you!


----------



## liz0012

Pinkee said:


> CD2
> 
> 
> Not looking forward to a clomid Thanksgiving lol
> 
> Side note - I joined a few clomid facebook groups and oh boy.
> 
> Regret city. I am too hormonal to be nice to some of those ladies I couldn't believe some of the things they came up with, mostly women who were buying drugs online and self medicating and were listening to their "cousins" on what works.

ugh I took climid 2 years ago when we started our ttc baby #3 and nothing came from it except weight gain. now i am on it again for the second month along with iui i HATE clomid! I will do only one more iui and do famara with that one cuz i did it in the past and no side effects at all.


----------



## Ask4joy

I hated clomid too, Liz. Turned me into a psycho and the weight gain sucked! I lost it with a strict diet but then gained it back with IVF ugh! At least my IVF meds didnt make me a raging lunatic like clomid.

Just an update - FET was yesterday! Planning on testing next Monday.


----------



## LAR83

Congratulations Ask!!!!


----------



## Ask4joy

Thank you, LAR! How are you doing?


----------



## smurphy90

Hi ladies! I've updated in other places, but I wanted to update here.
I got my first (vvvf) positive on Dec 4th. As of this morning, we haven't been able to see anything on the u/s yet, but we're hoping that means that I just ovulated a few days later than we thought. We're pretty optimistic. I'll get my third hcg results today, so hopefully that can confirm that I'm still pregnant!


----------



## Ask4joy

Congrats, Sara!!! I&#8217;ve also been getting positives after my transfer last week! They are progressively getting darker each day so that&#8217;s a good sign! Beta is tomorrow! Are your hcg levels doubling?


----------



## smurphy90

Ask - My hcg levels tripled between my first two tests (about 55 hours apart), but they started out pretty low, at 30. The third one was done this morning, so we'll see in a few hours if they continued to rise properly.


----------



## Ask4joy

That&#8217;s great! Good luck!!


----------



## smurphy90

Thanks! You too!


----------



## BelleNuit

Congrats Sara, I knew it was just a matter of time for you :)


----------



## smurphy90

Thanks Belle!

The next few hours are going to pass so slowly. I _am_ a little concerned that I may have miscarried over the weekend, as I had heavier spotting than I'd had last week, and it seems like my symptoms are easing up a bit. So I'm still pretty nervous. Praying that tonight brings good news.


----------



## LAR83

Ask4joy said:


> Thank you, LAR! How are you doing?


I am doing okay. Been swamped with work and school; plus I haven't been TTC, so I haven't been on here much. We are going to start trying soon though... in January, so if I find the time, I might be on here more. Still not sure when we'll be pursuing IVF, but I am thinking I might schedule an appt for January to begin talking about the process.


----------



## smurphy90

I miscarried over the weekend. Today's hcg was down to 70.


----------



## Ask4joy

Oh Sara, I&#8217;m so sorry. That&#8217;s heartbreaking. :hugs:


----------



## BelleNuit

I'm really sorry to hear that Sara :( 

Lar it's great to see you again. Good luck with figuring out your next steps!


----------



## Ask4joy

Good to hear from you, LAR! Sounds like you&#8217;ve been busy! Wishing you success in the new year!


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

Im back... I thought we were done months ago but i was able to piece together some clomid and make it work. 50mg x 2, 100x3... so i didnt have enough but heres to hoping. I THINK i ovulated yesterday and i missed my trigger window but thats ok. :thumbup: This cycle has been really relaxed. Im not doing anything but taking tests and then P4 in LP. 

Im sorry for your loss Sara. 

I didnt read everyone elses, sorry!


----------



## greenarcher

9ish DPO and I've been playing Nanny for my BFF and her first baby, who is 9 days old. Getting practice in :p plan on testing tomorrow night.


----------



## LAR83

Sara, I am so sorry for your loss. :hugs:


----------



## OnErth&InHvn

5dpo and just waiting. &#9825;


----------



## smurphy90

Thanks ladies. I'm actually just now miscarrying, but it never developed very far. My hcg was really, really low. 

I saw my RE today and she gave us the all clear to start injections again as soon as my hcg levels are back to 0, which will hopefully be this week or next. Here's to hoping my body is a bit more prepared now and we can conceive again soon.


----------



## smurphy90

The hits just keep coming. I thought I had miscarried two weeks ago, when my hcg dropped from 93.4 to 70. It turned out that I hadn't yet, but then seemed like I was this past weekend. I went to my clinic yesterday, they did another hcg check and said I can start treatment again when it's at 0. With it only being 70, that had to be soon, right?

Wrong. It *increased* to 234. Which is obviously not enough for a sustainable pregnancy at 5.5-6 weeks. So more and more signs are pointing to ectopic.


----------



## BelleNuit

Oh goodness Sara, I can't imagine how you must be feeling. Is there any way to confirm that it's ectopic?


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## smurphy90

From what I've read, it's a bit of a waiting game, early on. So far my ultrasounds have looked clear on all fronts, but with such low hcg levels, that doesn't mean much. They can be hard to diagnose in general. It seems common for the diagnoses to simply come from, "Well, all other possibilities have been ruled out, so it must be." So for now I guess we're still in the ruling-everything-else-out-phase.

I'll have another u/s next week and another hcg check. 

I did a lot of grieving last week, and was feeling okay. Ready to move on. Even this past weekend when it seemed like I hadn't miscarried yet, but was now. But this crap... It's obviously not a viable pregnancy and I just want this crap to be over. I'm so mad... God willing nothing goes wrong, but even if not it seems common that women have to wait 2-6 months to try again after an ectopic and that just makes me so mad. I just wish this would freaking end.


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## Ask4joy

Im so sorry you are going through this, Sara. :hugs:


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry Sara. It is devastating, especially when you were feeling so ready to move on. I think it's really good that you are being monitored throughout this process. A cousin of mine had an ectopic pregnancy, but they didn't catch it which is pretty dangerous. So I'm really happy you are being watched. 

I don't want to offer false hope, but is there any chance you were pregnant with twins and one miscarried but the other didn't? I really know very little about HCG levels as I've never gotten that far. 

I'm sorry hun! Here for you!


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## OnErth&InHvn

BelleNuit said:


> I'm sorry Sara. It is devastating, especially when you were feeling so ready to move on. I think it's really good that you are being monitored throughout this process. A cousin of mine had an ectopic pregnancy, but they didn't catch it which is pretty dangerous. So I'm really happy you are being watched.
> 
> I don't want to offer false hope, but is there any chance you were pregnant with twins and one miscarried but the other didn't? I really know very little about HCG levels as I've never gotten that far.
> 
> I'm sorry hun! Here for you!

If she was pregnant with twins and lost one, that wouldnt explain the low Beta. Shed still have the hcg from the other one. DD1s twin passed and my hcg was still in normal range

:hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## smurphy90

Yeah, my levels are still way too low to leave any real hope of a sustainable pregnancy, even if a twin didn't make it. My hcg levels would have probably been quite a bit higher initially as well. I don't have hope for this cycle, and I've come to terms with that. I just wish this process would end so we could move on.


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## jwilly

So sorry Sara. We went through the exact same thing a few years ago. The waiting was the worst. Waiting to miscarry, waiting for the next beta, waiting to confirm ectopic, waiting for metho to be out of your system...Hopefully it isn't ectopic and your body just hasn't let go yet. Sending hugs.


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## OnErth&InHvn

7dpo.. i still dont feel one way or another. I was tempted to buy more Clomid but with only a 50% ovulation rate... its probably not going to make a difference. (50% on FE too).


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## BelleNuit

I'm sorry Sara. In that case I hope it will all be over soon so that you can move on from this. Be gentle to yourself!


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## OnErth&InHvn

Going to poas today..


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## red_head

Hey guys, thought I was done with all this but am back temporarily.- I&#8217;ve posted in pregnancy tests if anyone would mind having a look I&#8217;d appreciate it. Hope you all are okay xx


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## OnErth&InHvn

BFN so far.... I did find 1 more round of Clomid. So i guess we will take a break after this cycle and come back in February. :shrug:


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## OnErth&InHvn

I posted in the HPT area... I feel like i see something?


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## OnErth&InHvn

On to a break then back in feb.


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## TryTryTryAgn

Hi guys, new to this forum and I hope it's ok I'm posting here. We started TTC 15+ mos. ago. Along the way I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and PCOS... So you know... It's been super fun lol. Next month will be my 3rd round of Clomid. Feeling so discouraged as I just got my 21 day test results back and my HCG was at a 5, they're calling it not pregnant. I know everyone says be patient...it will happen when it's supposed to... But I am just feeling so defeated. Sorry to be such a downer, I just get tired of talking to people who cannot understand who say the same things. Bleh. Baby dust to everyone, hopefully this will be someone's month!


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## OnErth&InHvn

TryTryTryAgn said:


> Hi guys, new to this forum and I hope it's ok I'm posting here. We started TTC 15+ mos. ago. Along the way I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and PCOS... So you know... It's been super fun lol. Next month will be my 3rd round of Clomid. Feeling so discouraged as I just got my 21 day test results back and my HCG was at a 5, they're calling it not pregnant. I know everyone says be patient...it will happen when it's supposed to... But I am just feeling so defeated. Sorry to be such a downer, I just get tired of talking to people who cannot understand who say the same things. Bleh. Baby dust to everyone, hopefully this will be someone's month!

5 would be BFN, what was your progesterone?


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## TryTryTryAgn

5 would be BFN, what was your progesterone?[/QUOTE]

Progesterone was 21. AF came 3 days ago. Start my 3rd round of Clomid (50mg) tonight. I always feel hopeful at the start of a new cycle (probably why I get so frustrated the end of the TWW), sooo here's hoping for a success this month.


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## smurphy90

Hi ladies,

My miscarriage finally ended and my hcg returned to 0 by Friday. I had my first u/s of this cycle this morning and got the go-ahead to start Gonal-F again tonight.

Such an emotional and draining month, but I'm glad to be starting a new cycle.


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## BelleNuit

Sara I am so glad that you are finally through that ordeal. No kidding that was a draining month! I hope you've done plenty of self-care!


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## Hope16

Hi everyone... ttc #2 ...I took clomid 50mg days 5-9 and I triggered with pregnyl last night. My IUI is scheduled for tomorrow morning at 10:30am ...I could use all the baby dust I can get! :dust:

Anyone else doing IUI??


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## BelleNuit

Good luck hope! I had tried a couple of IUIs in the spring, so I know what you're in for! Hope all goes well!


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## OnErth&InHvn

good luck on the IUI. 

Im having weird spotting, even though i just had AF... so im on Provera to stop it. Then i dont have a plan... im out of meds :(


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## TryTryTryAgn

I hope you find a solution &#10084;. Sending good vibes your way.





OnErth&InHvn said:


> good luck on the IUI.
> 
> Im having weird spotting, even though i just had AF... so im on Provera to stop it. Then i dont have a plan... im out of meds :(


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## OnErth&InHvn

The solution right now is to take the last 3 Provera I have and then about 2 weeks of Crinone, stop on cd25 so i can trick my body. Otherwise, id have 90+ days of spotting again like i had a few months back. 

After this cycle, ill probably try a Soy isoflavones cycle or two and then see where to go from there. Weve tried Clomid and Femara with and without Ovidrel. There really isnt anything else to try at this point. :shrug:


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## Hope16

what does your doctor say about the spotting? I wouldn't be too concerned if it's light.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Hope16 said:


> what does your doctor say about the spotting? I wouldn't be too concerned if it's light.

I dont have a dr. I dont have insurance.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Af is here. On to Soy and see if it works. :thumbup:


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## TryTryTryAgn

Had my 21 day test today, I have pretty much decided that I'm going to take a little break after this... As long as the doctor doesn't think it's a horrible idea. TTW always has me all over the place. At some point I always convince myself I might be pregnant (anyone else experience that still, even after over a year of trying?). This time it's because I feel an unusual small tightness in my lower abdomen...which is likely just a desperate figment of my imagination. 



OnErth&InHvn said:


> Af is here. On to Soy and see if it works. :thumbup:


I hope it works OnErth&InHvn , I'll keep sending good vibes your way.


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## OnErth&InHvn

TryTryTryAgn said:


> Had my 21 day test today, I have pretty much decided that I'm going to take a little break after this... As long as the doctor doesn't think it's a horrible idea. TTW always has me all over the place. At some point I always convince myself I might be pregnant (anyone else experience that still, even after over a year of trying?). This time it's because I feel an unusual small tightness in my lower abdomen...which is likely just a desperate figment of my imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> OnErth&InHvn said:
> 
> 
> Af is here. On to Soy and see if it works. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> I hope it works OnErth&InHvn , I'll keep sending good vibes your way.Click to expand...

10yrs TTC and still feel that way. :hugs:


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## MWILL

Hi Ladies. I have been reading these threads for over a year but this will be my first interaction. I am 37 yrs (PCOS) Hubby 39. We have been trying a 1.5yrs to fall pregnant. #1 IUI cycle - Dr started me on 37.5ml of Gonal f, follicles too small(@5) #2 cycle - gonal F upped to 75ml (still to small @ 9) #3 gonal f @100ml . At CD9 my US showed 1 follicle on Right & Left at 8mm. my next US is tomorrow and I am unsure of how much it would grow. My Dr is looking for min size of 16. I am so ....frustrated. I am worried that another cycle will be cancelled. Is it possible that the follicles will grow faster in the 4 days between US?


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## TryTryTryAgn

I don't know a lot about the US/Follicle process:shrug: but I hope you get positive answers!



And thank you HvnErth for making me feel a little less crazy. I get my 21 day test results today or tomorrow (not that it matters because even though they say negative I gold out hope until AF shows)... Doctor doesnt seem to think its advisable to take a break unless I just mentally need it... So likely going to start my 4th Clomid cycle next week. Bleh. Dang it baby, grow in my womb already! &#128514;
10yrs TTC and still feel that way. :hugs:[/QUOTE]


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## Ask4joy

MWill - As I did IVF I do know a bit about injectable stims. The follicles tend to grow 1-2mm a day, sometimes a little more. So it is very possible that they are 16mm at your next scan. Good luck!


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## OnErth&InHvn

MWILL said:


> Hi Ladies. I have been reading these threads for over a year but this will be my first interaction. I am 37 yrs (PCOS) Hubby 39. We have been trying a 1.5yrs to fall pregnant. #1 IUI cycle - Dr started me on 37.5ml of Gonal f, follicles too small(@5) #2 cycle - gonal F upped to 75ml (still to small @ 9) #3 gonal f @100ml . At CD9 my US showed 1 follicle on Right & Left at 8mm. my next US is tomorrow and I am unsure of how much it would grow. My Dr is looking for min size of 16. I am so ....frustrated. I am worried that another cycle will be cancelled. Is it possible that the follicles will grow faster in the 4 days between US?

It is possible for them to grow in that time!


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## MWILL

Thank you Ladies for the feedback. I am hoping they grew faster. Today is my second scan soooo we will see.
I have to say this, it is great having you ladies whom have been through this or are going through this. I don't feel so alone.


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## steph1607

MWILL, I just wanted to second what Ask said - don't lose hope, it is entirely possible that your follicles will grow well in 4 days. I did injectable stims for IVF back in November and had slowish growth at first, but then my follicles just exploded in between my penultimate ultrasound and my egg retrieval. Best of luck with everything :hugs:


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## MWILL

@ask and @steph . just got back from my u/s. One follicle is 15mm it almost doubled! the other small. Dr said 16-18mm would have been ideal. Dr said to continue stim for 3 days then ovidrel and iui. I would have hoped to have 2 dominant follicles to increase chances as this would be my first complete cycle as such. But still hopeful


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## OnErth&InHvn

It only takes one. :D 

Im about to finish up my Soy. Ill take OPK closer to CD19 and thats that. Im not doing ovidrel or P4 after O.


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## MWILL

@OnErth , Fingers crossed that its THE one :)

Just rushed to my Dr for an injection which he thought that he had already prescribed to me. Was supposed to have taken it last night but confusion. Anyway hope all goes well

I am doing Ovidrel on Sunday am and IUI Monday pm


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## Ask4joy

Good luck MWill! I hope this is your golden egg! :)


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## Hope16

BFN for me.....onto IVF next month. 

Can anyone tell me about it?? How bad are the needles? I'm so nervous.


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## Ask4joy

Sorry about the bfn hope. :(

The anticipation of the needles before we actually started was far worse than the shots themselves! The stim needles are pretty tiny and you hardly feel it! I iced the area before and DH did the injections - you will become a pro in no time. If you will be on PIO for your transfer, the needles are intimidating. I find that they are slightly more uncomfortable than the stims but really not that bad and nothing to be afraid of (DH does those for me too as they go in the upper outer quadrant of your bum). I try not to look at the needle, because I won&#8217;t lie, it&#8217;s huge...but most of the time it&#8217;s just a little prick/pinch. I apply heat before and after and have avoided getting lumps and soreness for the most part. I also heat the oil on my heating pad before it&#8217;s injected.

Feel free to PM me with any other questions you have! I just had my retrieval this past October so everything is still very fresh in my mind!


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## TryTryTryAgn

BFN according to my 21 day test. They say I'm ovulating perfectly though. :( super frustrating. 3 more cycles left on Clomid. Took my 2 days to be upset about it and I'm moving on. Now just waiting on AF to show up in 4 days to start the insanity again.


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## Hope16

AF showed up for me yesterday :(

I have a consult with my RE about starting IVF next cycle. I am terrified!


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## MWILL

Hi ladies, I just had my first iui this afternoon My Dr did not do another US. On CD12 I had 1 follicle @15mm. From what I having been reading you ladies seem to know your follicle size before the iui. I am feeling unsure as I don't know whether its a viable follicle or even if it was still there. Do Dr had different processes?


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## OnErth&InHvn

MWILL said:


> Hi ladies, I just had my first iui this afternoon My Dr did not do another US. On CD12 I had 1 follicle @15mm. From what I having been reading you ladies seem to know your follicle size before the iui. I am feeling unsure as I don't know whether its a viable follicle or even if it was still there. Do Dr had different processes?

if it was 15 on cd12, then it was still a good size today. They dont usually just disappear.


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## OnErth&InHvn

cd10, so i still have about 11 days til possible O. 
Im not super hopeful since i didnt take Soy like i was supposed to but maybe the little bit will do a little job. :flower:


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## MWILL

@OnErth what is Soy? Sorry if it is a silly question.
I took a clearblue OPK this morning and it was positive, But I had my IUI yesterday afternoon. Everything I have read says that you should do the IUI after a positive OPK. Should DH & I BD tonight and tomorrow.


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## OnErth&InHvn

MWILL said:


> @OnErth what is Soy? Sorry if it is a silly question.
> I took a clearblue OPK this morning and it was positive, But I had my IUI yesterday afternoon. Everything I have read says that you should do the IUI after a positive OPK. Should DH & I BD tonight and tomorrow.

Soy Isoflavones. " natures clomid". You get it from Walmart. 

Did you do a trigger shot? OPK will show + from that. I would BD just in case until its bfn.


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## MWILL

@OnErth-Yes I did take ovidrel on Sunday 7am. I felts some cramping couple of hours after IUI (Monday)not sure it that was IUI or O. Hubby and I B'd Tuesday& Wednesday morning just to make sure :)

on a side note - I feel like a horrible person cos a colleague just told us that she is pregnant after just coming of bc. and another friend is also preggy. I am excited for them but feeling sad for me. Sorry having a pity party moment. UGH


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## OnErth&InHvn

Oh yeah then.. Ovidrel will make a OPK and HPT +. Thats why most will test them out.


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## OnErth&InHvn

My cyst/cancer thing has been bothering me since i ran on Saturday. So IF i ovulate, it will be on my left side, which has been wonky too. 

and no, theres no point in going to the OB, they wont do anything but suggest surgery, which i wont agree to. :thumbup:


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## OnErth&InHvn

entered potential fertile window. :flower:

hows everyone else?


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## MWILL

Hey ladies. Did any of you ladies get hot flushes 10-12 dpiui? I am currently 12dpiui. Or is it possibly the progesterone suppositeries?


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## smurphy90

MWILL said:


> Hey ladies. Did any of you ladies get hot flushes 10-12 dpiui? I am currently 12dpiui. Or is it possibly the progesterone suppositeries?

I find progesterone sups give me hot flashes.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Id guess P4 doing it. Are you on a high dose?


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## MWILL

Thanks for the response ladies. I am on 2*200mg daily. I have been taking it from 1dpiui. Just started having hot flushes recently.


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## TryTryTryAgn

Today is my Day 21 (because of scheduling I won't be going in for my day 21 test until day 23). I have had what is to me the weirdest thing happen today. Last month my cycle went from 29 days to 26 days ... I can't imagine it getting shorter than that but I thought y'all might know... And this might be a little TMI.

So I was driving home today and felt some light cramping around where the mons pubis is, it was dull compared to my usual hellacious menstrual cramps, but uncomfortable enough to notice. I didnt think a whole lot about it...but then I got home and used the restroom, when I wiped there was a small weird discharge. The outer part of it appeared to be basically transluscent (egg white) with a brown/reddish streak running through it, it was a small amount. Likely less than some size but was definitely not spotting or clotting or anything menstrual related (at least that I've ever seen). It did appear to have a "mucus" like texture. Probably unrelated but I also have a slight tension headache. In the almost 2 years we've been trying I've just never experienced this. I know it's probably nothing, but I figured if anyone other than a medical professional would know, Y'all might.


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## TryTryTryAgn

Ok... Now I have a full on brownish red discharge. Its only day 21. So at most I would have conceived 11 days ago... Not sure what to do &#128546; don't want to go to the doctor for nothing since I go in 2 days... But now I'm concerned?


TryTryTryAgn said:


> Today is my Day 21 (because of scheduling I won't be going in for my day 21 test until day 23). I have had what is to me the weirdest thing happen today. Last month my cycle went from 29 days to 26 days ... I can't imagine it getting shorter than that but I thought y'all might know... And this might be a little TMI.
> 
> So I was driving home today and felt some light cramping around where the mons pubis is, it was dull compared to my usual hellacious menstrual cramps, but uncomfortable enough to notice. I didnt think a whole lot about it...but then I got home and used the restroom, when I wiped there was a small weird discharge. The outer part of it appeared to be basically transluscent (egg white) with a brown/reddish streak running through it, it was a small amount. Likely less than some size but was definitely not spotting or clotting or anything menstrual related (at least that I've ever seen). It did appear to have a "mucus" like texture. Probably unrelated but I also have a slight tension headache. In the almost 2 years we've been trying I've just never experienced this. I know it's probably nothing, but I figured if anyone other than a medical professional would know, Y'all might.


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## LAR83

Finally got my BFP! Only 4 weeks along. I hope it sticks!


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## Ask4joy

Ahhhh congrats LAR!!! Sooo happy for you! Keep me updated!


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## LAR83

Thanks Ask! I know I haven't written in this thread for a while but figured I would post in case any of the same people still post here from before. I wonder how norelisa is doing... Haven't heard from her in a while. I have a TTC journal but haven't switched to a pregnancy journal yet. I am still in somewhat of shock/denial about this and am very worried about losing this pregnancy since it is so early, but I'm trying my best to live in the moment, enjoy it, and hope for the best.


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## OnErth&InHvn

Congrats LAR!! 

As for me, we are done. Complete. We have done all we can and its just what it is. :thumbup:


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## Babydust28

Hi ladies can I join please?

As you can see from my signature, we recently got our BFN after 2 frosties being transferred earlier this month :cry:

I have decided to have the last 2 cycles of my Clomid (stopped earlier than i should as the side effects got too much)

I'm currently waiting on AF and then will start 50mg Clomid day 3-7, these 2 cycles will be unmonitored.

I have researched vitamins for helping PCOS also, the following have been said to help
Vit D3
Metafolin
Inositol

I will also do castor oil packs once AF has been and gone, any other advice ladies?


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## OnErth&InHvn

Welcome!! All my FE and Clomid cycles were unmonitored. :D


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## OnErth&InHvn

Update on my end.... Almost 60+ day cycle of non stop spotting. :growlmad:

Im starting Vitex tonight. NOT to O but to help get AF to come or go away. :happydance:

We wont be doing anything else as I have said because that ship has sailed but its worth trying!


My Ovulation Chart


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