# At wits end with sons behaviour



## leelee

I think I might belong in here now as I recognise a lot of names!

Max will be 4 in March. He has always been a feisty, highly strung child. He was fighting against clothes changes from 9 months and still runs away/fights me when I try to dress him.

He is just exhausting. Everyday there is battle after battle. Yesterday he played with his Dad in the morning, then we all went to see Frozen and followed that by a long walk on the beach (which he loves). He still wasn't happy and wanted to do something else. And that pretty much sums him up. When we went to the zoo a few months ago we spent about 3 hrs there and on the way out he pointed out that he hadn't seen the snakes. My mother shook her head, laughed and said I was just like him as a child.

But it's not just that. His appetite is appauling and has been for about 2 years. He just wants plain pasta all the time. And now his little sister (aged 27 months) is copying him and won't eat (she was an excellent eater). When he gets angry he shouts and screams and spits at me. He tells me he hates me and wants me to live elsewhere. He will push his little sister and pretend to bite me, or drag out of me.

He also whines all the time until I give in. He constantly saying he is hungry and wears me down until I give him something even though he won't have eaten his lunch or dinner. And when he does eat something he just throws the wrapper on the ground. Everyday the two of them trash each others bedrooms. Just upend boxes of toys and throw all DD's teddies all over the floor, take the duvets down off the bed etc.

Then at bedtime he won't go to bed and now she won't either. Sometimes they do but usually me or OH have to sleep with one or both of them until they are asleep, meaning we have to go down and then clean a trashed house or leave it until the morning.

I am just so sick of it all. DD is a very good toddler, but is picking up on all DS's behaviour.

I do love him to pieces and is a lovely, sensitive, affectionate boy, but at the moment I detest the behavior :(


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## hattiehippo

Tom is a couple of months older and he can be very similar tbh. He is better than 6 months ago but he moans about everything he can, everything is 'BORING!' some days and he's recently started telling fibs to cover up when he's done something he knows we won't like.

I have found being much, much firmer with his behaviour helps - so I let very little go now and I've turned into my mother and tell him 'I'm not having that behaviour! Regularly'. Today I caught him going into the biscuit tin and after a stand off he was allowed a biscuit when he asked properly but he really didn't see why he shouldn't just take it. He didn't want to help tidy up tonight cos he was too tired but did with a lot of pushing.

We've also just started giving him £1 a week pocket money to put into his piggy bank and he can get small change for doing jobs. Very early days but this seems to be helping with the attitude as well.

Eating - I have no answer here as Tom is an awful eater too. I was over the moon cos he the 11 pieces of cheesy pasta in Pizza Hut today. That's the most ever!


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## Boomerslady

I think I definitely belong in this section too now!! Sadly I don't have much advice, Ben is a feisty one too. His behaviour had improved immensely since about 6 months ago but he gets bored easily or wants to be destructive. I keep telling myself the older he gets it should get easier!!

With bedtime I try the super nanny thing, doesn't always work but usually after putting him back in 10 or so times he gives up. Breaks my heart though when he shouts how I've upset him and he just wants a cuddle. 

I hope you figure something out soon, or that he grows out of it.


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## CandyDay

You need to stop giving in. He knows now that if he whines long enough you will give in. So in his mind why should he listen when whining gets him what he wants.
I know its easier said then done but you may just have to do tough love.
I would also tell them that if they dump all their toys and won't clean up that you will take a box of toys away every time they behave like that. And that they will have to not make a mess for a day in order to get a box of toys back. Just think for every box of toys you take away the less mess you have to clean up.

For the screaming you could try doing a time out and the time out lasts until he sits quietly for 5 minutes. Or you could try making a time out jar for him to use.
https://mycrazyblessedlife.com/2011/10/03/relax-bottletime-out-timer/

For the food can you keep his dinner for when he asks for food later and tell him once he eats that they he can pick a snack (and give him a list of snacks to choose from) Or tell him to eat 5 spoonfuls of his dinner/lunch and then he can have a snack.


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## messica

leelee said:


> I think I might belong in here now as I recognise a lot of names!
> 
> Max will be 4 in March. He has always been a feisty, highly strung child. He was fighting against clothes changes from 9 months and still runs away/fights me when I try to dress him.
> 
> He is just exhausting. Everyday there is battle after battle. Yesterday he played with his Dad in the morning, then we all went to see Frozen and followed that by a long walk on the beach (which he loves). He still wasn't happy and wanted to do something else. And that pretty much sums him up. When we went to the zoo a few months ago we spent about 3 hrs there and on the way out he pointed out that he hadn't seen the snakes. My mother shook her head, laughed and said I was just like him as a child.
> 
> But it's not just that. His appetite is appauling and has been for about 2 years. He just wants plain pasta all the time. And now his little sister (aged 27 months) is copying him and won't eat (she was an excellent eater). When he gets angry he shouts and screams and spits at me. He tells me he hates me and wants me to live elsewhere. He will push his little sister and pretend to bite me, or drag out of me.
> 
> He also whines all the time until I give in. He constantly saying he is hungry and wears me down until I give him something even though he won't have eaten his lunch or dinner. And when he does eat something he just throws the wrapper on the ground. Everyday the two of them trash each others bedrooms. Just upend boxes of toys and throw all DD's teddies all over the floor, take the duvets down off the bed etc.
> 
> Then at bedtime he won't go to bed and now she won't either. Sometimes they do but usually me or OH have to sleep with one or both of them until they are asleep, meaning we have to go down and then clean a trashed house or leave it until the morning.
> 
> I am just so sick of it all. DD is a very good toddler, but is picking up on all DS's behaviour.
> 
> I do love him to pieces and is a lovely, sensitive, affectionate boy, but at the moment I detest the behavior :(

Sounds like he knows he's got you right where he wants you lol

It's time to change his perspective of you as a parent and I promise, YOU CAN!

No more pasta. Period. Don't even buy it. Same goes for any food he gets stuck on and starts demanding over a well balanced diet.

If he screams about whatever, ignore the words and simply bring about a consequence with zero discussion.....he screams ='s he loses his lovey, his favorite toy, his favorite movie etc. Walk, pick it up, and put it up on the fridge. Done.

Listening to you is not an option. Right now he knows you have an "until I raise enough hell" point at this point and that needs to stop. Pick your battles obviously, but the ones you pick you need to make it crystal clear you will win them. 

Cut back on the toys. One bin. That he only gets to keep playing with if he picks up daily on his own and minds his behavior. Anything that gets thrown or misused gets bagged and put up for a month. Minimum. He needs to learn that if he acts up with it that it's going to disappear. If that means ALL of it, so be it. Let him sit on the floor and be bored if he chooses to act up. Guaranteed he'll call your bluff and push things that far. FOLLOW THROUGH. 

If he rips the covers off his bed then those go too. Dress him in warm jammies and let him learn that that behavior has consequences. 

Special outings like walks on the beach and videos are privilege's he can earn only with good behavior....not givens just because he's cute ;)

At four he can and should be helping with simple chores. I'd start a chart for that if you haven't already. Sounds like he has way too much free time and the structure during the day should help.

You also should not be dressing him at this point. He's plenty old enough to be doing that himself from head to toe save for you setting out coordinates for him.

I personally don't do artificial rewards for good and expected behavior. You don't get a cookie for not tantruming on a given day, but you most definitely get rewarded with say getting to play a special game, or an extra bedtime story (sugar vs. quality time). Make sure you praise him when you see him doing good instead of chastising him when he acts up. 

Do NOT sleep with him. If he gets up just keep putting him back to his bed every single time. Calmly, but firmly. It will take time (meaning hours, days, possibly even weeks) but it will work. You think it won't, but it does with every single one if you stick with it :)


Don't get mad. Don't yell. Don't let him see you get upset, or worn down. If he acts up, simply walk over without a word and make your point using whatever is his most valued currency.



I've been a babysitter, nanny, elementary ed teacher, mother, foster mother and licensed daycare provider......I'm telling you, if you don't nip ALL of the above and pronto he's not only going to grow into an even bigger nightmare at home but at school as well and that is not going to fly. ***It will not just get better with age.*** It never does with kids who are allowed to have soooo much control over their environments.


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## Dragonfly

Sounds like he needs help not punished for it.


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## leelee

hattiehippo said:


> Tom is a couple of months older and he can be very similar tbh. He is better than 6 months ago but he moans about everything he can, everything is 'BORING!' some days and he's recently started telling fibs to cover up when he's done something he knows we won't like.
> 
> I have found being much, much firmer with his behaviour helps - so I let very little go now and I've turned into my mother and tell him 'I'm not having that behaviour! Regularly'. Today I caught him going into the biscuit tin and after a stand off he was allowed a biscuit when he asked properly but he really didn't see why he shouldn't just take it. He didn't want to help tidy up tonight cos he was too tired but did with a lot of pushing.
> 
> We've also just started giving him £1 a week pocket money to put into his piggy bank and he can get small change for doing jobs. Very early days but this seems to be helping with the attitude as well.
> 
> Eating - I have no answer here as Tom is an awful eater too. I was over the moon cos he the 11 pieces of cheesy pasta in Pizza Hut today. That's the most ever!

Sorry for the delay in replying. I didn't have access to a PC and it takes too long on a tablet.

I think his behaviour was a reaction to Xmas and less boundaries, eating more rubbish etc as he has calmed down now.

He is still feisty but more manageable. He is a child that needs firm boundaries as he will always push them. I was exactly like that as a child so I have some understanding of what he feels like. Thanks for the advice x


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## leelee

Boomerslady said:


> I think I definitely belong in this section too now!! Sadly I don't have much advice, Ben is a feisty one too. His behaviour had improved immensely since about 6 months ago but he gets bored easily or wants to be destructive. I keep telling myself the older he gets it should get easier!!
> 
> With bedtime I try the super nanny thing, doesn't always work but usually after putting him back in 10 or so times he gives up. Breaks my heart though when he shouts how I've upset him and he just wants a cuddle.
> 
> I hope you figure something out soon, or that he grows out of it.

I hate when Max says that I have hurt his feelings. He overuses it though, and often says it for no reason! He has been going to bed quite well the last week.


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## leelee

CandyDay said:


> You need to stop giving in. He knows now that if he whines long enough you will give in. So in his mind why should he listen when whining gets him what he wants.
> I know its easier said then done but you may just have to do tough love.
> I would also tell them that if they dump all their toys and won't clean up that you will take a box of toys away every time they behave like that. And that they will have to not make a mess for a day in order to get a box of toys back. Just think for every box of toys you take away the less mess you have to clean up.
> 
> For the screaming you could try doing a time out and the time out lasts until he sits quietly for 5 minutes. Or you could try making a time out jar for him to use.
> https://mycrazyblessedlife.com/2011/10/03/relax-bottletime-out-timer/
> 
> For the food can you keep his dinner for when he asks for food later and tell him once he eats that they he can pick a snack (and give him a list of snacks to choose from) Or tell him to eat 5 spoonfuls of his dinner/lunch and then he can have a snack.

The time out jar looks great. Thanks for that


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## leelee

messica said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> I think I might belong in here now as I recognise a lot of names!
> 
> Max will be 4 in March. He has always been a feisty, highly strung child. He was fighting against clothes changes from 9 months and still runs away/fights me when I try to dress him.
> 
> He is just exhausting. Everyday there is battle after battle. Yesterday he played with his Dad in the morning, then we all went to see Frozen and followed that by a long walk on the beach (which he loves). He still wasn't happy and wanted to do something else. And that pretty much sums him up. When we went to the zoo a few months ago we spent about 3 hrs there and on the way out he pointed out that he hadn't seen the snakes. My mother shook her head, laughed and said I was just like him as a child.
> 
> But it's not just that. His appetite is appauling and has been for about 2 years. He just wants plain pasta all the time. And now his little sister (aged 27 months) is copying him and won't eat (she was an excellent eater). When he gets angry he shouts and screams and spits at me. He tells me he hates me and wants me to live elsewhere. He will push his little sister and pretend to bite me, or drag out of me.
> 
> He also whines all the time until I give in. He constantly saying he is hungry and wears me down until I give him something even though he won't have eaten his lunch or dinner. And when he does eat something he just throws the wrapper on the ground. Everyday the two of them trash each others bedrooms. Just upend boxes of toys and throw all DD's teddies all over the floor, take the duvets down off the bed etc.
> 
> Then at bedtime he won't go to bed and now she won't either. Sometimes they do but usually me or OH have to sleep with one or both of them until they are asleep, meaning we have to go down and then clean a trashed house or leave it until the morning.
> 
> I am just so sick of it all. DD is a very good toddler, but is picking up on all DS's behaviour.
> 
> I do love him to pieces and is a lovely, sensitive, affectionate boy, but at the moment I detest the behavior :(
> 
> Sounds like he knows he's got you right where he wants you lol
> 
> It's time to change his perspective of you as a parent and I promise, YOU CAN!
> 
> No more pasta. Period. Don't even buy it. Same goes for any food he gets stuck on and starts demanding over a well balanced diet.
> 
> If he screams about whatever, ignore the words and simply bring about a consequence with zero discussion.....he screams ='s he loses his lovey, his favorite toy, his favorite movie etc. Walk, pick it up, and put it up on the fridge. Done.
> 
> Listening to you is not an option. Right now he knows you have an "until I raise enough hell" point at this point and that needs to stop. Pick your battles obviously, but the ones you pick you need to make it crystal clear you will win them.
> 
> Cut back on the toys. One bin. That he only gets to keep playing with if he picks up daily on his own and minds his behavior. Anything that gets thrown or misused gets bagged and put up for a month. Minimum. He needs to learn that if he acts up with it that it's going to disappear. If that means ALL of it, so be it. Let him sit on the floor and be bored if he chooses to act up. Guaranteed he'll call your bluff and push things that far. FOLLOW THROUGH.
> 
> If he rips the covers off his bed then those go too. Dress him in warm jammies and let him learn that that behavior has consequences.
> 
> Special outings like walks on the beach and videos are privilege's he can earn only with good behavior....not givens just because he's cute ;)
> 
> At four he can and should be helping with simple chores. I'd start a chart for that if you haven't already. Sounds like he has way too much free time and the structure during the day should help.
> 
> You also should not be dressing him at this point. He's plenty old enough to be doing that himself from head to toe save for you setting out coordinates for him.
> 
> I personally don't do artificial rewards for good and expected behavior. You don't get a cookie for not tantruming on a given day, but you most definitely get rewarded with say getting to play a special game, or an extra bedtime story (sugar vs. quality time). Make sure you praise him when you see him doing good instead of chastising him when he acts up.
> 
> Do NOT sleep with him. If he gets up just keep putting him back to his bed every single time. Calmly, but firmly. It will take time (meaning hours, days, possibly even weeks) but it will work. You think it won't, but it does with every single one if you stick with it :)
> 
> 
> Don't get mad. Don't yell. Don't let him see you get upset, or worn down. If he acts up, simply walk over without a word and make your point using whatever is his most valued currency.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been a babysitter, nanny, elementary ed teacher, mother, foster mother and licensed daycare provider......I'm telling you, if you don't nip ALL of the above and pronto he's not only going to grow into an even bigger nightmare at home but at school as well and that is not going to fly. ***It will not just get better with age.*** It never does with kids who are allowed to have soooo much control over their environments.Click to expand...

I do agree with some of your points but some would be too harsh for me to impose. It's not who I am as a parent. I can and I do take away a toy for a day if he has been misbehaving, but there is no way I could take something away for a month. He just wouldn't understand it.

Sometimes I do sleep with him, if he is upset or if he is lonely. I just use my judgement because he doesn't ask for this every night. But some nights he comes into the bed to us if he has a bad dream. It doesn't bother me.

I do agree that I need to get firmer with him when he misbehaves.


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## leelee

Dragonfly said:


> Sounds like he needs help not punished for it.

I think he needs firmer boundaries and consequences if he misbehaves rather than punishment as such.

Any suggestions on the help you think he needs?


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## Toms Mummy

My son sounds very similar, esp since his sister has come along..... I have always believed in gentle parenting, which sometimes is easier said than done and I have raised my voice to him on occasion when I feel the frustration (mainly recently).... Although I would like to stick to gentle parenting, as in treating him with respect, talking things out & time in (which I thiink works wonders :)).... I have recently had to become a bit tougher and have brought in consequences. 

He just doesn't listen atm and tells us he hates us or wants me to move out if we tell him not to do something, the name calling from him now goes over my head but I think the reason that he doesn't listen to us is that our threats/consequences have always been too high so we have never followed through with them and now he has learnt... such as - if you do that, we are not going to such a place when in fact we will be going as we are meeting people there and I need to get out of the house! Soooo, we have changed our threats to mini threats such as not having a toy/dvd/book (if he's thrown them) for the rest of the day. Or going outside without coat/shoes as he refused to put them on (but I take them with me for when he askes outside).

I have come to find ahaparenting.com a good read

I too would be interested in more advice prom people :)


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## JASMAK

I have been having issues with my son with home work time. He gets short tempered and mouthy when overwhelmed or frustrated. One day, just recently, I sent him to bed without dinner. He couldn't believe it but I stuck to it. His normal bedtime is 9pm. He was in bed at 5:30 that day. I have tried giving him rewards but not calling it that. Today I hax some chocolate and that did the trick. Or getting it done before going outside or playing Xbox. Basically I am trying to make it positive so rewards versus punishments but....I still obviously fall upon consequences but I think it is helping.


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## Dragonfly

leelee said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> Sounds like he needs help not punished for it.
> 
> I think he needs firmer boundaries and consequences if he misbehaves rather than punishment as such.
> 
> Any suggestions on the help you think he needs?Click to expand...

someone else suggested aha parenting site there, go there its a great site. It may seem faster and easier to impose punishments to make it all stop but it dosnt stop under the skin for the child. If you nip whatever is wrong in the bud that will stop it coming back. Children normally dont act out just because, theres always a reason. I have found that out with my oldest. I know he is upset and dosnt know how to deal with it and turns out to be something happening around him.


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## hattiehippo

I really agree with Dragonfly - kids usually act up because something is going on. I'm not particularly for gentle parenting and I expect a lot of Tom's behaviour but now he's got the basics of behaving well, if he has an off day or days it will be because something is wrong rather than he's being naughty just for the sake of it.

Last Saturday he was awful - we went to look round a couple of houses and he was out of control. He ran off and hid and then screamed and screamed when we tried to get him out. Rather than punishing him when we finally got home I asked him if going to the houses made him feel worried and he burst into tears and said he thought we were moving house then and he didn't want to leave his bedroom. He was fine again once we'd talked it through.


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## JASMAK

Awwwww. :(


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## BethK

messica said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> I think I might belong in here now as I recognise a lot of names!
> 
> Max will be 4 in March. He has always been a feisty, highly strung child. He was fighting against clothes changes from 9 months and still runs away/fights me when I try to dress him.
> 
> He is just exhausting. Everyday there is battle after battle. Yesterday he played with his Dad in the morning, then we all went to see Frozen and followed that by a long walk on the beach (which he loves). He still wasn't happy and wanted to do something else. And that pretty much sums him up. When we went to the zoo a few months ago we spent about 3 hrs there and on the way out he pointed out that he hadn't seen the snakes. My mother shook her head, laughed and said I was just like him as a child.
> 
> But it's not just that. His appetite is appauling and has been for about 2 years. He just wants plain pasta all the time. And now his little sister (aged 27 months) is copying him and won't eat (she was an excellent eater). When he gets angry he shouts and screams and spits at me. He tells me he hates me and wants me to live elsewhere. He will push his little sister and pretend to bite me, or drag out of me.
> 
> He also whines all the time until I give in. He constantly saying he is hungry and wears me down until I give him something even though he won't have eaten his lunch or dinner. And when he does eat something he just throws the wrapper on the ground. Everyday the two of them trash each others bedrooms. Just upend boxes of toys and throw all DD's teddies all over the floor, take the duvets down off the bed etc.
> 
> Then at bedtime he won't go to bed and now she won't either. Sometimes they do but usually me or OH have to sleep with one or both of them until they are asleep, meaning we have to go down and then clean a trashed house or leave it until the morning.
> 
> I am just so sick of it all. DD is a very good toddler, but is picking up on all DS's behaviour.
> 
> I do love him to pieces and is a lovely, sensitive, affectionate boy, but at the moment I detest the behavior :(
> 
> Sounds like he knows he's got you right where he wants you lol
> 
> It's time to change his perspective of you as a parent and I promise, YOU CAN!
> 
> No more pasta. Period. Don't even buy it. Same goes for any food he gets stuck on and starts demanding over a well balanced diet.
> 
> If he screams about whatever, ignore the words and simply bring about a consequence with zero discussion.....he screams ='s he loses his lovey, his favorite toy, his favorite movie etc. Walk, pick it up, and put it up on the fridge. Done.
> 
> Listening to you is not an option. Right now he knows you have an "until I raise enough hell" point at this point and that needs to stop. Pick your battles obviously, but the ones you pick you need to make it crystal clear you will win them.
> 
> Cut back on the toys. One bin. That he only gets to keep playing with if he picks up daily on his own and minds his behavior. Anything that gets thrown or misused gets bagged and put up for a month. Minimum. He needs to learn that if he acts up with it that it's going to disappear. If that means ALL of it, so be it. Let him sit on the floor and be bored if he chooses to act up. Guaranteed he'll call your bluff and push things that far. FOLLOW THROUGH.
> 
> If he rips the covers off his bed then those go too. Dress him in warm jammies and let him learn that that behavior has consequences.
> 
> Special outings like walks on the beach and videos are privilege's he can earn only with good behavior....not givens just because he's cute ;)
> 
> At four he can and should be helping with simple chores. I'd start a chart for that if you haven't already. Sounds like he has way too much free time and the structure during the day should help.
> 
> You also should not be dressing him at this point. He's plenty old enough to be doing that himself from head to toe save for you setting out coordinates for him.
> 
> I personally don't do artificial rewards for good and expected behavior. You don't get a cookie for not tantruming on a given day, but you most definitely get rewarded with say getting to play a special game, or an extra bedtime story (sugar vs. quality time). Make sure you praise him when you see him doing good instead of chastising him when he acts up.
> 
> Do NOT sleep with him. If he gets up just keep putting him back to his bed every single time. Calmly, but firmly. It will take time (meaning hours, days, possibly even weeks) but it will work. You think it won't, but it does with every single one if you stick with it :)
> 
> 
> Don't get mad. Don't yell. Don't let him see you get upset, or worn down. If he acts up, simply walk over without a word and make your point using whatever is his most valued currency.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been a babysitter, nanny, elementary ed teacher, mother, foster mother and licensed daycare provider......I'm telling you, if you don't nip ALL of the above and pronto he's not only going to grow into an even bigger nightmare at home but at school as well and that is not going to fly. ***It will not just get better with age.*** It never does with kids who are allowed to have soooo much control over their environments.Click to expand...


Wow! Those are very strict consequences! I think maybe when you've got your own you won't be able to be as harsh


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## messica

BethK said:


> Wow! Those are very strict consequences! I think maybe when you've got your own you won't be able to be as harsh


I have two lol. Ages 9 and almost 11 years old. Along with parenting a total of 14 foster children over the years. When you've got your own perhaps you'll understand why having solid boundaries is absolutely necessary to raising good people :winkwink:


I'm not any stricter than the world is and will be to them. My children describe me as VERY loving, kind, reasonable and fair. Society (their teachers, coaches, our community etc) all say they are incredibly compassionate, intelligent and sweet little people. Much more so than their peers and that means a lot to me. 

I refuse to send heathens out into the world. That's exactly what's wrong with the world today and I will not contribute to it. 

I'm not here to be a friend to my children, I'm here to be a parent. There SHOULD be a difference and that's what I'm doing :flower:


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## messica

leelee said:


> I do agree with some of your points but some would be too harsh for me to impose. It's not who I am as a parent. I can and I do take away a toy for a day if he has been misbehaving, but there is no way I could take something away for a month. He just wouldn't understand it.
> 
> Sometimes I do sleep with him, if he is upset or if he is lonely. I just use my judgement because he doesn't ask for this every night. But some nights he comes into the bed to us if he has a bad dream. It doesn't bother me.
> 
> I do agree that I need to get firmer with him when he misbehaves.

Just to clarify on one point, I didn't mean to imply that if your son had a bad dream he shouldn't be able to come to you for comfort. I co slept with my children and even with how giant they are now we still do if they've had a particularly bad day, are sick, or had a bad dream. They know I'm there when they need me, but they also know they don't need me all the time.

What I would be firmer with is manipulation in regards to cosleeping. At nearly four he's either in pre-k or fast approaching it. If he's having a rough go the teacher isn't going to be able to pick him up and cuddle him while also tending to an entire group. In the same right if he simply wants her attention because he wants it it's just not practical. Learning to self soothe on some level and cope with not getting his way all the time is an essential skill he needs to learn to be able to function as he starts to enter the world away from you. 


I am a HUGE AP advocate and strive to parent gently, but also within reason. If he shouts, screams, spits, bites and throws things at school he's going to have no friends and may even get kicked out. Same would go for if he ever plays sports or is involved with extra-curriculars. If he doesn't want what's being served in the cafeteria he can't just go to the cooks and demand something special. As an adult if he doesn't eat a balanced diet he'll end up sickly and diseased. If he tells other people in his life that he hates them they'll walk out. If he whines to get what he wants no one is going to want to hire him, marry him, or be a part of his life.

Right now the above is his expectation of what works. Expectations cultivated when a child is young are much more readily accepted than trying to influence an older child who has bad habits already established.

If you don't show him now that those things are and will be unacceptable out in the real world he's going to be in for one heck of a rude awakening when he finally gets out there. If you think about it, not preparing a child for those very real and natural consequences by imposing them at home, is far more cruel than imposing them gently and lovingly in a controlled way at home when they're young.


If that's not who you are as a parent that's perfectly fine. He's your child and as long as you're doing what you think is best no one can or should judge. The above is just my opinion and explanation of what I do and why I think it's right for me and mine, as well as what I'd do if I were in your shoes (only because you asked for the help) :flower:


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## BethK

messica said:


> BethK said:
> 
> 
> Wow! Those are very strict consequences! I think maybe when you've got your own you won't be able to be as harsh
> 
> 
> I have two lol. Ages 9 and almost 11 years old. Along with parenting a total of 14 foster children over the years. When you've got your own perhaps you'll understand why having solid boundaries is absolutely necessary to raising good people :winkwink:
> 
> 
> I'm not any stricter than the world is and will be to them. My children describe me as VERY loving, kind, reasonable and fair. Society (their teachers, coaches, our community etc) all say they are incredibly compassionate, intelligent and sweet little people. Much more so than their peers and that means a lot to me.
> 
> I refuse to send heathens out into the world. That's exactly what's wrong with the world today and I will not contribute to it.
> 
> I'm not here to be a friend to my children, I'm here to be a parent. There SHOULD be a difference and that's what I'm doing :flower:Click to expand...

I do have my own and she is a good person, not sure if you're implying she's not or if you're implying that anyone who doesn't treat their children the way you do are creating Heathens but they're absolutely not!

Wow. Just wow!


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## Toms Mummy

BethK said:


> messica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BethK said:
> 
> 
> Wow! Those are very strict consequences! I think maybe when you've got your own you won't be able to be as harsh
> 
> 
> I have two lol. Ages 9 and almost 11 years old. Along with parenting a total of 14 foster children over the years. When you've got your own perhaps you'll understand why having solid boundaries is absolutely necessary to raising good people :winkwink:
> 
> 
> I'm not any stricter than the world is and will be to them. My children describe me as VERY loving, kind, reasonable and fair. Society (their teachers, coaches, our community etc) all say they are incredibly compassionate, intelligent and sweet little people. Much more so than their peers and that means a lot to me.
> 
> I refuse to send heathens out into the world. That's exactly what's wrong with the world today and I will not contribute to it.
> 
> I'm not here to be a friend to my children, I'm here to be a parent. There SHOULD be a difference and that's what I'm doing :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do have my own and she is a good person, not sure if you're implying she's not or if you're implying that anyone who doesn't treat their children the way you do are creating Heathens but they're absolutely not!
> 
> Wow. Just wow!Click to expand...

I don't think that's what she was implying :dohh:.. critisising your parenting, or anyone elses. I think you were only tagged in her reply as you asumed she had no children, when in fact she does.

There are many ways to bring up nice children. It sounds like she was just giving her take on her own , not insulting other people's parenting x


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## Lucasmum

Behavior aside you said all he will eat is plain pasta and other certain foods? My son is is very particular with food, we have battled cried laughed shouted and all the other things over the years to get him to eat more and vary his diet but eventually we decided to give up fighting with a child, if he was happy eating these things then so what at least he was eating and it sure as hell made meal times a much happier time for all of us and slowly very slowly without the stress and anxiety Lucas has tried more and more things, some he liked some he didnt I would seriously not worry and stress over diet, you have enough on your plate :flower:


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## Toms Mummy

I'm with Lucasmum re. food. My ds lives in rice, carrots and jacobs crackers! He will eat other things occasionally but atleast by cooking these things I know he will def eat it!


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## OmarsMum

Re. Food - Omar is very picky he'd live on plain rice if I let him, but I dont. It was hard work to get him to eat a decent diet, I dont offer crap full stop. If he refuses to eat his meal knowing that he ate it before, he doesnt get plain rice it doesnt have any nutritious value other than filling him up, which makes it difficult to offer him any proper food later. I make sure he doesn't snack between meals, he eats 3 meals with no snacks, if he snacks in the afternoon I dont offer him lunch to make sure he eats dinner, if he eats a proper lunch I know he will not eat dinner so I make sure he gets a balanced meal for lunch. If he refuses food all together, I prepare a smoothie with veggies, fruits & some seeds & nuts. But I will never ever give him plain rice only, it takes loads of time & work to get over pickiness, he is still picky, but now he eats over 10 nutritious cooked meals, 2 yrs back he used to eat carrots & green peas stew with rice on the side only. We dont buy processed or canned food, we dont even eat processed cereals. 

As for being difficult, I do expect it after a long day out, he gets tired, so he finds any excuse on our way home to make himself miserable, I just tell him I know how you feel, it's ok to be upset but now we left & on our way home we cant do anything about it, how about we do (anything to distract him) at home, & we start to talk about that thing we're going to do, it works most of the time, or we just sing in the car together or talk about something funny that happened earlier during the day.

Bedtime- if he refuses to go to sleep, I reason with him, he gets extra play time but one of his bedtime books have to go, if he uses all his books time playing he doesnt get any books, I cuddle him when he cries & I give him kisses, I also tell him that I do understand that he wants to read books before sleeping but there is no time left as he used it for playing, this is a consequence, not a punishment, he used his reading time for playing, so the consequence no books as there is no time. 

I dont take away toys as a consequence unless he's misusing a toy like bumping into furniture intentionally while riding his balance bike or throwing his lego around to tease me. 

Cleaning up- we never had issues, but since he was much younger he "helps" in putting toys away once he's done playing, we sing clean up song, we used to race to see who can put more toys away, & so on.

If he doesnt follow I structions like using the toilet or changing to his pj we race, or I count to 100 & see if he can finish before I'm done counting, now he tries to break his record every night :haha:

He gets cuddles & kisses all day, but I'm firm, I say no, he gets a cuddle while I explain the reasons, now when he's upset or when he doesn't get what he wants he runs to me for a cuddle with a tiny cry then he feels ok & moves on. 

He was a drama queen he used to cry for anything & everything, but I'm always consistent, whining & crying doesnt bother me, I dont give in, now he's older & he understands more things are mucn better than 1 yr back.


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## JASMAK

OmarsMum said:


> Re. Food - Omar is very picky he'd live on plain rice if I let him, but I dont. It was hard work to get him to eat a decent diet, I dont offer crap full stop. If he refuses to eat his meal knowing that he ate it before, he doesnt get plain rice it doesnt have any nutritious value other than filling him up, which makes it difficult to offer him any proper food later. I make sure he doesn't snack between meals, he eats 3 meals with no snacks, if he snacks in the afternoon I dont offer him lunch to make sure he eats dinner, if he eats a proper lunch I know he will not eat dinner so I make sure he gets a balanced meal for lunch. If he refuses food all together, I prepare a smoothie with veggies, fruits & some seeds & nuts. But I will never ever give him plain rice only, it takes loads of time & work to get over pickiness, he is still picky, but now he eats over 10 nutritious cooked meals, 2 yrs back he used to eat carrots & green peas stew with rice on the side only. We dont buy processed or canned food, we dont even eat processed cereals.
> 
> As for being difficult, I do expect it after a long day out, he gets tired, so he finds any excuse on our way home to make himself miserable, I just tell him I know how you feel, it's ok to be upset but now we left & on our way home we cant do anything about it, how about we do (anything to distract him) at home, & we start to talk about that thing we're going to do, it works most of the time, or we just sing in the car together or talk about something funny that happened earlier during the day.
> 
> Bedtime- if he refuses to go to sleep, I reason with him, he gets extra play time but one of his bedtime books have to go, if he uses all his books time playing he doesnt get any books, I cuddle him when he cries & I give him kisses, I also tell him that I do understand that he wants to read books before sleeping but there is no time left as he used it for playing, this is a consequence, not a punishment, he used his reading time for playing, so the consequence no books as there is no time.
> 
> I dont take away toys as a consequence unless he's misusing a toy like bumping into furniture intentionally while riding his balance bike or throwing his lego around to tease me.
> 
> Cleaning up- we never had issues, but since he was much younger he "helps" in putting toys away once he's done playing, we sing clean up song, we used to race to see who can put more toys away, & so on.
> 
> If he doesnt follow I structions like using the toilet or changing to his pj we race, or I count to 100 & see if he can finish before I'm done counting, now he tries to break his record every night :haha:
> 
> He gets cuddles & kisses all day, but I'm firm, I say no, he gets a cuddle while I explain the reasons, now when he's upset or when he doesn't get what he wants he runs to me for a cuddle with a tiny cry then he feels ok & moves on.
> 
> He was a drama queen he used to cry for anything & everything, but I'm always consistent, whining & crying doesnt bother me, I dont give in, now he's older & he understands more things are mucn better than 1 yr back.

I like this....but....it would only work if you have an only child...which I do believe yours is. Let me tell you. ...with three. ..my kids have learned to do as they are asked. They KNOW I am busy...they see it. They all help each other to. Very sweet.


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## messica

Toms Mummy said:


> BethK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> messica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BethK said:
> 
> 
> Wow! Those are very strict consequences! I think maybe when you've got your own you won't be able to be as harsh
> 
> 
> I have two lol. Ages 9 and almost 11 years old. Along with parenting a total of 14 foster children over the years. When you've got your own perhaps you'll understand why having solid boundaries is absolutely necessary to raising good people :winkwink:
> 
> 
> I'm not any stricter than the world is and will be to them. My children describe me as VERY loving, kind, reasonable and fair. Society (their teachers, coaches, our community etc) all say they are incredibly compassionate, intelligent and sweet little people. Much more so than their peers and that means a lot to me.
> 
> I refuse to send heathens out into the world. That's exactly what's wrong with the world today and I will not contribute to it.
> 
> I'm not here to be a friend to my children, I'm here to be a parent. There SHOULD be a difference and that's what I'm doing :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do have my own and she is a good person, not sure if you're implying she's not or if you're implying that anyone who doesn't treat their children the way you do are creating Heathens but they're absolutely not!
> 
> Wow. Just wow!Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think that's what she was implying :dohh:.. critisising your parenting, or anyone elses. I think you were only tagged in her reply as you asumed she had no children, when in fact she does.
> 
> There are many ways to bring up nice children. It sounds like she was just giving her take on her own , not insulting other people's parenting xClick to expand...


Exactly, and thank you for seeing my true intent :thumbup:


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## JJKCB

*Max will be 4 in March. He has always been a feisty, highly strung child. He was fighting against clothes changes from 9 months and still runs away/fights me when I try to dress him.*

make him dress himself... my son dresses himself or he just doesnt get dressed, which means he cant go out (they get bored very quick with this esspecially if you plan to go somwhere they like such as the park or pizza hut but cant go because they're not dressed) they can dress themselves easily with pull on clothes from 3 years old (boys tend to be 'lazier' than girls though) but you still need to help with buttons, laces and zips 

*He is just exhausting. Everyday there is battle after battle. Yesterday he played with his Dad in the morning, then we all went to see Frozen and followed that by a long walk on the beach (which he loves). He still wasn't happy and wanted to do something else. And that pretty much sums him up. When we went to the zoo a few months ago we spent about 3 hrs there and on the way out he pointed out that he hadn't seen the snakes. My mother shook her head, laughed and said I was just like him as a child.*

kids are just like that, I know it doesnt feel like good parenting but sometimes finding a DVD and sitting them down can be the only option (especially if you have been out all day)

*But it's not just that. His appetite is appauling and has been for about 2 years. He just wants plain pasta all the time. And now his little sister (aged 27 months) is copying him and won't eat (she was an excellent eater). When he gets angry he shouts and screams and spits at me. He tells me he hates me and wants me to live elsewhere. He will push his little sister and pretend to bite me, or drag out of me.*

all most all children are picky at this age, they like plain and safe foods (its actually to do with biological changes in their taste buds) my son used to eat everything including spicy sauce now he only eats chips, mild garlic bread or cheese pizza (and cookies of course)

try the naughty corner (or continue with it) I know its get tiring hearing it but it eventually works

*He also whines all the time until I give in. He constantly saying he is hungry and wears me down until I give him something even though he won't have eaten his lunch or dinner. And when he does eat something he just throws the wrapper on the ground. Everyday the two of them trash each others bedrooms. Just upend boxes of toys and throw all DD's teddies all over the floor, take the duvets down off the bed etc.*

once again this is just a kid thing, you need to make a stand on trashing rooms example: OH wont play with DS if he trashes his room because 'there is no where to play' he then has to help tidy instead of getting play time

im rubbish with the hungry thing as DS helps himself when im not looking (in the old house I dont even know how as we had gates and locks - we took them off because he always managed somehow anyway)

*Then at bedtime he won't go to bed and now she won't either. Sometimes they do but usually me or OH have to sleep with one or both of them until they are asleep, meaning we have to go down and then clean a trashed house or leave it until the morning.*

I cant help with this DS has always gone to bed and straight to sleep... dont know if we did something right or if its just luck


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## deafgal

^^^Max will be 4 in March. He has always been a feisty, highly strung child. He was fighting against clothes changes from 9 months and still runs away/fights me when I try to dress him.^^^^ Mine does to. I try to find distractions like a toy. Or make a game out of it.

^^^^^He is just exhausting. Everyday there is battle after battle. Yesterday he played with his Dad in the morning, then we all went to see Frozen and followed that by a long walk on the beach (which he loves). He still wasn't happy and wanted to do something else. And that pretty much sums him up. When we went to the zoo a few months ago we spent about 3 hrs there and on the way out he pointed out that he hadn't seen the snakes. My mother shook her head, laughed and said I was just like him as a child.^^^^^ 

When it is time to go home, it's time to go home. Don't be afraid to say so.

^^^^But it's not just that. His appetite is appauling and has been for about 2 years. He just wants plain pasta all the time^^^^^ Just make whatever. He'll eat whatever in front of him when he is hungry. I would not make special dish for someone unless they are on a special diet.

. ^^^^And now his little sister (aged 27 months) is copying him and won't eat (she was an excellent eater)^^^^^ seem like Right now she' s exploring (maybe her likes and dislikes ) but if she really does not mind certain food , she'll eat it . I doubt she will let her brother stop her eat her kind of food.

"When he gets angry he shouts and screams and spits at me. He tells me he hates me and wants me to live elsewhere. He will push his little sister and pretend to bite me, or drag out of me."sounds like he just need a little time out to cool down. 

^^^^^He also whines all the time until I give in. He constantly saying he is hungry and wears me down until I give him something even though he won't have eaten his lunch or dinner. And when he does eat something he just throws the wrapper on the ground. ^^^^
Every kids I know snack like this. You are suppose to give them snacks. But healthy snacks like fruits or raisins(don't offer anything else) . Don't worry about dinner. As far as trash, ask them to pick it up or we won't go outside (or TV or whatever) until everything is cleaned up. It shouldn't be hard. 


^^^^Everyday the two of them trash each others bedrooms. Just upend boxes of toys and throw all DD's teddies all over the floor, take the duvets down off the bed etc.^^^^That's how kids play. At least the kids I know. Again, I do expect them to clean up after they are done playing...but cleaning up can be overwhelming so I simplify it for them . Like i would ask them first to pick up all their blocks...when they are done , then i ask them to pick up all the yellow toys, and so on. As far as the bed, I expect the to help me make it up again .Even if it doesn't seem like they are really helping since they are so little. .shifting their focus that beds need to be made probably help because they probably don't want to deal with it.

^^^^Then at bedtime he won't go to bed and now she won't either. Sometimes they do but usually me or OH have to sleep with one or both of them until they are asleep, meaning we have to go down and then clean a trashed house or leave it until the morning.^^^^all lights off probably help but it does seem they are still cosleeping. One day they won't . A bed tent helped my son feel secure in his own bed though.


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## leelee

Thanks for all the replies. They are much appreciated.

Max is way better at the moment. He is much more settled and is getting himself dressed (with my help), going to bed no problem and just generally being more grown up.


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