# What not to say to a c-section mum



## Bournefree

Following a link from another thread I found this interesting article about what not to say to a c-section mum.

I have at times felt like asking some of these questions of c-section mums, or have harboured these feelings - so I am quite guilty of these thoughts (mostly in my own mind, as I wouldn't normally voice these feelings out loud - of course for the fear of upsetting other mums, which is something that I totally wouldn't want to do intentionally)

This article really made me think and evaluate what is it that I feel?! I think that my feelings are similar to one of the comments - that I wonder how many of c-section mums wouldn't have needed or required a c-section if different healthcare attitude/support was in place before it got to the emergency stage? Which is why I mostly feel empathy for the birth these women have lost in some way. I like to challange how I feel!

I have extracted its main points below. Full article and comment at https://www.themidwifenextdoor.com/?p=1328

* If you&#8217;d gone to my midwife, she could have gotten the baby out without a c-section. While it is true that midwives are very good at helping babies come out vaginally, that&#8217;s not the only goal. In the years before caesarean birth was available, there were occasions when a baby truly could not be born vaginally. Eventually, mother and baby would both die because of obstructed labour. Even if you are convinced your midwife could have gotten the baby out, respect the mother who has had a caesarean birth, and acknowledge that some babies cannot be born vaginally.
* Most &#8220;emergency&#8221; c-sections are not really emergencies. While I believe that many emergency c-sections are not really emergencies, I have also seen many c-sections that were emergencies. In those instances, I was very grateful for the option of a caesarean birth. Unless you were present and aware of the circumstances surrounding the decision to perform a c-section, this is a difficult judgment for anyone to make.
* Trust birth/your body won&#8217;t grow a baby too big to get out/your body was designed to give birth/birth is natural. Any and all of these mantras carry an important truth, but not an absolute truth. There are women whose bodies grow babies too big to be born vaginally. Birth is natural, and so is death. Should I tell the woman who arrived at the hospital 8 centimetres dilated, only to be told we could not find a fetal heartbeat, that she just didn&#8217;t trust birth enough? I believe we should trust the process of birth, unless there is a clear indication that the process is not working normally. In those cases, there are times when a caesarean birth is the best option.
* If your doctor had ______, you wouldn&#8217;t have needed a c-section. (Insert phrase of your choice: delivered your baby breech, done an external version, used forceps, not given you an epidural, let you get out of bed, etc.) Again, this is making a judgment on the c-section mother. At the time a woman consents to a c-section, she is usually tired, possibly in pain, and almost certainly scared for her baby&#8217;s safety and even her own. To judge her because she made the best decision she could under very stressful circumstances is simply heartless. 

It must be so very hard at times to breastfeed and care for your baby with a major surgical wound to cope with too?

However birth happens; I was really shocked to find out that the most likely cause of death for mums (both expectant and post nataly) is suicide!! So we should really be looking out for the psychological effects pregnancy, labour, birth and post natal care is having on women in "developed" countries.

What do you think ladies - this has in someway conflicted how I feel? I will certainly be watching what I say or even write in future.. as I realise this could be very harmful.

------------------------------
Good link to an article by a lady fed up with being told be "be greatful" she had a healthy baby! Thank you Samatha


----------



## chuck

One thing that boils my blood is _'too posh to push'_

I cannot stand it, I've been reported to mods for getting a bit ranty to people who throw that comment around. An elective for no medical reasons in the UK is very rare, most of us have no real choice when push (excuse the pun) comes to shove due to the situation we are in.


----------



## Jenniflower

I plan to be "too posh to push' but for completely different reasons, hahaha.

I love what you've posted here Bournefree. I think it's really important that every woman respect other women and their births. It's no place to judge whether it be a home birth judging a c-section or an Epi judging Gas and Air. I think that's one of the main reasons I don't get most of my friends backs up when I talk about having a home birth. I'm not saying it's the end all be all of birthing, but that it's merely what I'm hoping to achieve. :thumbup:


----------



## urbanbumpkin

I think that is a good list to remind yourself with if you find you are judging other people's situations, and want to catch yourself. It can be easy to forget that the truth of your own experience isn't necessarily universal.

--------------------------------------------

I was booked in for a homebirth with a very supportive and experienced team of dedicated homebirth midwives.

On their advice I transferred to hospital for continuous monitoring when I had heavy meconium staining in my waters. I trusted them, and their years of experience (and knew their commitment to home birth was very strong) so went in.

My c-section resulted from the lack of mobility due to the continuous monitoring that they had advised. The baby just wasn't able to get into a good position for birth, due to my lack of movement and not being able to get into the positions that I instinctively knew and felt were best. (The contacts on the monitor would fall off in most positions and with movement so I was stood still and upright for almost 12 hours). 

Neither of us was in danger or distressed, I was fully dilated (with no pain relief apart from hypnobirthing techniques), but while being monitored nothing was progressing.

I do know that the resulting c-section was the end point in a chain that led directly back to me being monitored.

It isn't the way I would have wanted to birth, and it wasn't the way my fantastic homebirth midwives wanted me to birth (but they have said I am still a good home birth candidate for next time, which is great).

-------------------------

So from my own personal experience I feel it is particularly good to be open minded about how you approach thinking about other women's c-sections. You never know the full story.

However on a positive note the hypnobirthing enabled me to feel calm, in control and positive even when the situation was not what I wanted. And it has helped me get over it quite well, and helped me find peace with myself, even though I would do things differently next time if possible.

-------------

Thanks for the link to the article, Bournefree.


----------



## Dragonfly

I had an emergancy c section. I didnt want it but we where both in danger after hours of labour so had to be done. i felt I didnt have a proper birth and was upset over it for a long time. even induction pissed me off for ages, I wish i had of said to them to leave me a few more days like I did this time but I had high bp, swelling for weeks and was over due and knew less. 
When i got pregnant with Alex I wanted a natural birth so much, I didnt want what happened last time I felt like I failed and didnt know what a real birth was till the end. They tried to induce me but refused and went further over due. I went naturally myself a day before my book induction I was 12 days over due and got a virginal birth. I felt so much better! i dont feel pissed off about any of it any more as i know what natural birth feels like and wish I had of had it for william but he is here and I am here both safe. My hospital dont do them willingly only on in emergencies. Alex got stuck and they tried to do one only I wouldn't have it. 

It shocks me poeple can choose this though, I rather the natural way I was up and about hours later and walking out of the hospital and felt so much better.


----------



## Mervs Mum

I once heard a MW say of the other MW in the room - she took the easy route and he came out the sunroof.....now they knew each other VERY well so the laughed and it didnt seem an issue but I dont like anyone calling it the easy route. It's WAY more risky than a vaginal delivery and I can tell you from partnering my sister and seeing her after, that was NOT easy.


----------



## Dragonfly

no not easy, I couldnt well for a while and coughing near killed me. Scared me to that happening being cut open. And lucky I breastfed fine after.


----------



## Mervs Mum

I think BFing after and elective is more likely to be problematic than after an ECS. yes shock can effect things but at least the body and baby have had the hormonal signals and triggers if labour happened spontaneously.


----------



## Dragonfly

ah I see. But I was induced. Wish I knew more then instead of everyone thinking and telling me induction was so normal around me. Didnt feel right at all. I was 1cm when I got in for my induction I wish I had of just waited or said something. Lucky I didnt have pre eclempsia. Never would I choose that and dreaded it happening again last time. I read most inductions end of c sections somewhere.


----------



## Mervs Mum

Yes a high percentage do. I got away with just forceps with my induction.


----------



## clarsair

Thanks for posting that extract. I still have unresolved feelings about LO's birth - I had planned an active homebirth with nothing more than gas and air for pain relief and it was all going to plan but after about 16 hours of established labour things started slowing down, midwives thought baby had turned back to back and I was exhausted so they recommended an ambulance transfer to hospital. After another 3 hours and having every type of pain relief going the doctor recommended a c-section has her head was still only 3/5ths engaged and there was some variation in the heart rate. I have, and still do, beat myself up a bit with all of the statements you posted - could I have been more active (I was upright the whole time until going to hospital)? If I'd not had the epidural or let the midwives try to break my waters would things be different? Did the doctor intervene because of the length of time that had passed rather than 'needing' to perform a c-section thus robbing me of the normal delivery I so badly wanted? I've since heard a midwife say that the doctors at the hospital have no faith in women's abilities to give birth. Or was it my lack of postivie thinking? I truly believed in the statements that birth is natural etc and read lots of hypnobirthing/natural birthing books beforehand, Ina May Gaskin etc which I think made me feel like even more of a failure now. Even my midwife saying that if my case had happened 100 years ago we both would have died, didn't make me feel much better.

Anyway, it's definately made me think much harder about c-sections as I too was perhaps a bit guilty of thinking of it as the 'easy option' before it actually happened to me.


----------



## Bournefree

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and more importantly your experiences about this ladies. 

This thread would be poorer without the input of women who have encountered the sharp-end (pun intended), of medical care.

How would I feel faced with your situations? I think I know that I would have done all of the things that you did do. (though, I do have strong feelings about constant monitoring)

I also have strong convictions about natural birth - but then I haven&#8217;t been through anything else.. so I'm not at all in a position to comment, but I have always had a strong sense of empathy.

I do however have some convictions about medical interventions.. mostly how I feel that mothers should be supported, encouraged and helped to relax as much possible by our heath carers... before reaching for/considering intervention. Interventions should be used as final options and reserved for those that require them. Those that do, I'm sure are grateful, as I would be.

However, one thing I can't resolve in my own head, is how anyone would want to do an elective c-section considering it is a major operation?? I think the one circumstance I would choose this option would be if I was so psychologically terrified of natural birth, that it would become a medical necessity for my mental health? I do find it very sad there are so many women who are genuinely frightened of giving birth*; I have found that most women who are frightened are first time mums, as they have no idea what to expect, and bring to their birth whatever cultural experiences of birth they have - another way of saying media influence really, as few lucky women get to see or participate in the brith of any of our family anymore. You only have to read some of the comments from each of the trimesters to confirm this. The realistic picture of birth is under/poorly-represented. (perhaps both on the natural and the EMCS side)
xXx


*In my experience, I haven't found many second, third or more mums who are fightened of repeating some of their less than satisfiying births. I have nothing but the upmost respect for an individual who decides next time it WILL be different, and comes back to birth with her faith and resolve in tact! You are inspirational!


----------



## Dragonfly

I was terrified second time around and I had emergancy c section first time. I didnt want that again and didnt know what vaginal felt like and everyone said c section was easier. Made me worse as c section didnt feel so great for me after so how much worse could natural be I thought. But I didnt want c section as I didnt feel I had a normal birth, As I explained before there (sorry if I repeat msyelf my heads mashed i need sleep lol) 

I would have natural over c section any day. I felt better mentally after like I actually did achieve something. Now I aint saying all woman dont achieve that have even an emergancy c section but thats honestly how I felt and I was upset about it for a long time. I do think I needed it though but got what I wanted in the end and feel finished with labours and happier.


----------



## xoxsarahxox

i have read but dont fully understand everything in this post (im not the birghtest crayon in the box )i dont no anyone who has had a c-section, emergency or selective. i cant understand why anybody would choose to have one over a vaginal birth other than for medical reasons. and i think it is a huge shame for those mums who go into labour expecting a vaginal birth and end up having a c section. not so much because they didnt get the type of birth they wanted but because they havent been prepared for a c section. i have 2 children and i dont remember once during either of my pregnanys being told about c sections the risks/how they do it/ who does it/how long it takes/ who can be there/ recovery....the list is endless. during my first labour they were about ready to give me an emergency c section and i was so frightened, just because i didnt know what to expect. sorry if i have turned this into a mini rant, i understand not everyone is going to end up having an emergency c section but it still ends up being the way for some woman and i think it is terrible how poorly informed we are of c section births during our pregnancy :( x


----------



## BabyBinns

I am due for a c-section and although it is for medical reasons on my notes I am down as an elective C section.

This will be my second "Elective C-section" but the reason for this is that with my first pregnancy in labour I suffered a full term placenta abruption and had to give birth vaginally with the help of the drs, it was a long long birth and I lost 16 pints of blood and was too ill to have the baby born by c-section and twice they did bring in my family to say good bye, not that I can remember it but they did.

They cant tell me if labour caused the abruption or if the abruption caused labour and once this happens you cant physically get your mind back to having a healthy vaginal delivery again. I think my reasons are psychological but also maybe partly medical in my mind but also its very hard in the UK to get an elective c section you have to go and plead your case to a dr and then they decide if you can have one or not and on both occasions as soon as I sit they say I have read your notes and we wont be opposing a c section and fully recommend one.

Just wanted to give the other side of the coin so to speak.


----------



## Dragonfly

sounds like you had reasons medically.


----------



## Celesse

My section is a bit of a grey area with regards could it have been avoided or not. At 5cm she was found to have a high heart rate with decelerations so I was sent into hospital for continuous monitoring. Once in I opted for an epidural, mainly to avoid having a general anaesthetic if a crash section was needed. As the labour went on she had a massive deceleration which was followed by an even higher heart rate. I also had a high heart rate, high BP and high temperature. 

The high heart rate and transfer where diagnosed at around 4pm (5cm and 13 hours into labour) and I was immobile from around 5pm. Decision for C-Section was around 11:45pm (8cm). The decision was made on the poor heart rate and the slowish labour which meant exposing the baby to an environment that was distressing her for longer than the consultant felt safe doing so. At the rate I was dilating it would potentially mean another 6 hours of labour, (4 hours to dilate the remaining 2 cm, an hour to allow baby to descend and another hour of pushing). If the high heart rate was caused by an infection that would mean another 6 hours of exposure for LO. 

Monitoring responsible for the section? Possibly. If I had the same labour but without the fetal heart rate problems chances are I would have remained mobile and upright and delivered vaginally much earlier. But intermittent monitoring picked up a problem that they had to act on. The baby was distressed and this distress did get worse as labour went on. *At the point at which I transferred to hospital and began monitoring *there was a real risk of a poor outcome, which was reduced by knowing what the baby was doing.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

_though, I do have strong feelings about constant monitoring_

I did too, and knew that it could lead to further interventions. 

But it was the course advised by my very supportive of natural birth midwives. The same midwives that would have been happy to deliver a breech baby naturally (if he had been breech), who were happy with going as far over term as I wanted (with monitoring), who had recently done a lotus birth, who were on board with hypnobirthing, who would happily deliver into water, etc

So I trusted their judgement in the situation I was in. I knew it placed me at risk for a further intervention, including a section though.

I do think if 'my' midwife had stayed with me it wouldn't have got to the section stage. It almost makes me wish he had been breech as then she would have stayed with me, rather than handing me over to the hospital team (due to her breech experience)!


----------



## helen1234

my mw upset me when i just had rhys, she was quite old school, but kept banging on about statistics of c sections, she looked at my notes and said "fetal distress and pre eclamp" shook her head and said we'll never get the statistics down in this hospital. if i hadnt been so distressed over just sorting rhys's tongue tie i think i would have jumped off the bed and punched, she made me feel like i'd had a c section for know reason, and that wasnt the case. the mw who sent me over to the consultant side did everything in her power to change my position etc, even got a second bp machine to double check my bp grrrr


----------



## Smudgelicious

This is something I posted in another place so it's not entirely relevant here, but a lot of it is. I liked the link though I have to admit I was surprised that people really are that judgemental about c sections.


*Don't tar women who want a different birth or who worry about coping as 'naive' or uninformed. How do you know ? Where on earth do you get the idea that everyone has the same world view, or experience, let alone method/s of coping with birth ? Birth, which is so individually variable it can't be simplified into 'coping' or 'not' ? 

I'm having my fourth baby and I'm having another c section. I'm not in a bubble, natural birth kills my babies because I am not 'designed' to give birth naturally - a common enough variable, unfortunately dismissed by believers in the 'we're all designed for this' cliche. Me and other women like me are the ones that used to die in childbirth. However, c sections exist so now we don't, we have wonderful lovely births of happy perfect babies. I can't imagine being disappointed in a surgical birth of a live healthy baby.

It often seems forgotten in the debate of who did it 'right' or not, that the aim of pregnancy is a healthy child of a healthy mother. If that outcome is achieved with every single technological intervention possible in a hospital, or at home with a midwife, WHO CARES ? One or the other is not a superior experience. And birth fades in the experience of actually raising children. *


----------



## chuck

Smudgelicious said:


> It often seems forgotten in the debate of who did it 'right' or not, that the aim of pregnancy is a healthy child of a healthy mother. If that outcome is achieved with every single technological intervention possible in a hospital, or at home with a midwife, WHO CARES ? One or the other is not a superior experience. And birth fades in the experience of actually raising children. [/B]

Hmmm see it's that kind of thing that hits me hard 'who cares?' - I care! I care so much that I didn't get to do things how I wanted and I dint get a CS to save my life or that of my baby I suffered a EMCS because I ran out of NHS time. I hated every second of my baby removal because I was alone in a a theatre full of people ho didn't take into account I was supposed to be giving birth not having a tooth extraction.

No I'm not grateful that we are both healthy and I dont care if that makes me sound like spoilt little bitch who doesnt care as there are many women who don't have healthy babies but I'm sorry it was MY experience and what happened to me is what I care about.

I spent months in tears feeling guilty, wrong and inferior and it took me a very very long time to come to terms with the fact the baby I was handed at some point after they dragged hi out was mine - he could be anyones after all I had no experience of him coming into this world. 

On top of that I had thought run through my mind where I wanted to throw him at a wall when I was trying to BF as it hurt do much (tongue tied baby and bleeding nipples) and I'm so ashamed still of those thoughts and how I didnt manage to just bloody get over it and do what my baby needed.

If at the end of the day all that mattered was that he and I were safe and healthy would I have felt all of that and still sit here in tears more than a year later? 

I resent my EMCS I hate it still (do you have any idea how horrible it is to say you hate how your child came into this world and hate thinking about it?), I didnt give birth the CS didnt save my life or my babies. I can't stand how 'birth' wasnt something to remember I have tried very hard with counselling to put it away in a box and forget about it but I cant. So I care how my baby made it into this world.

</rant>

Sorry sometimes it all comes welling up and I'm ill and all hormonal and I have to go through it all gain soon and I'm scared.


----------



## Jenniflower

Chuck I love your honesty, I really do. I think it is so good that you're able to really express how you feel about it. I always think the more people can let it out the better for them it will be. So thank you so much for always sharing your true feelings with us. :hugs:

In regards to this thread I hate 2 things. 
1) When women who do have c-sections willingly think that in order to do it naturally you have to be made of something more. And they won't allow women who have done it naturally to talk about it because it makes them feel inferior (I have a few friends like that, that think I'm trying to act better than them because I believe I can do it naturally AND at home. Apparently that's a double slap to them)

2) Women who go naturally that DO think they're better than everyone else. 

The biggest thing that is wrong with birthing today is information, information, information! Most all women are to just assume the position, make it easier on the hospital and doctors, keep their mouth shuts and push. I think we should be trusting enough to listen to what our midwives tell us. But if that is going to happen then the midwives need to be telling us EVERYTHING. They wonder why we have to go off on our own, to do our own research it's because they don't offer all the information out there. They only offer it to their bias. 

If you give a woman all the information, explain the benefits of giving birth naturally, that she actually CAN do it, and encourage her to do so, then if she decides in other routes that's her choice and we shouldn't judge. But I'm sad because most women never assumed they could.


----------



## chuck

I can't say as I'm all that positive about what happened because I'm not BUT I'm doing my best to make it positive even if it's not for me. If by sharing and letting other women know what I have found out since then it's worth it in some respect.

No amount of complaint letters and demanding 'answers' will refund me my birth experience, no one is going to put their hand up say sorry its all my fault and let me bea them to a pulp because well it simply wont help will it as much as sometimes I want vengeance and payback.

Besides I have no one to vent to in the real world..hubby has said outright that he thinks there must be something wrong with me if I still feel like this and I dont have many good Mummy friends (a couple of baby group ladies who i see once in a blue moon), so it's easier to let it go here and if no one replies it doesnt matter.

Sometimes I just have to well, let go or try to, its something I need to do before I can get my positive birth experience that I deserve so I;'m trying.

Sorry if I bore you guys to death with it. lol.


----------



## clarsair

Chuck, I feel for you, really I do, it sounds like you've had an awful time of it. It's reassuring for me though to hear someone say the things I've been feeling but thought there was something wrong with me, like being handed a baby rather than giving birth. I had PND and although I feel my normal self now I do wonder if having a CS contributed to this. I also couldn't establish breastfeeding, again, don't know if this had anything to do with the birth or contributed to PND but perhaps it did. So I've also been struggling with feeling hugely inadequate and guilty over not getting a homebirth, not getting a natural birth, not being able to breastfeed and the lack of feeling and trepidation I felt towards LO in the first weeks of her life. My DH is also quite pragmatic and can't see past the fact that both LO and I were fine so what's the problem?

So I just wanted to say thank you for sharing and being so honest, I think it does help to get it all out, and I hope very much you have a better experience next time (and also for me if it ever happens! lol).


----------



## chuck

clarsair said:


> Chuck, I feel for you, really I do, it sounds like you've had an awful time of it. It's reassuring for me though to hear someone say the things I've been feeling but thought there was something wrong with me, like being handed a baby rather than giving birth. I had PND and although I feel my normal self now I do wonder if having a CS contributed to this. I also couldn't establish breastfeeding, again, don't know if this had anything to do with the birth or contributed to PND but perhaps it did. So I've also been struggling with feeling hugely inadequate and guilty over not getting a homebirth, not getting a natural birth, not being able to breastfeed and the lack of feeling and trepidation I felt towards LO in the first weeks of her life. My DH is also quite pragmatic and can't see past the fact that both LO and I were fine so what's the problem?
> 
> So I just wanted to say thank you for sharing and being so honest, I think it does help to get it all out, and I hope very much you have a better experience next time (and also for me if it ever happens! lol).

The only thing I have learned is that we are normal to feel the way we do, I said to my husbands friend only a couple weeks ago who was due an elective for a breech baby (2 failed ECV's) when she said she felt bad about it and was fed up people saying it didnt matter so long as they were both ok that she can feel how she wants it is fine! We have the right to feel awful if that s how we feel about our experiences.

Mourning something we never had is a process that takes time to get over - I know I still havent.

We have to have a better time of it this time around we'll make sure we do!


----------



## Dragonfly

I dont get offended when mums talk about natural birth, even before I had one. What was done at the time needed to be done. I was sad I didnt get a natural birth but how could I take that out on someone who did have one? makes no sence. Having had natural now I dont feel any one is beneath me for not having one. I just wanted one so I could have that experience I hear so many talk about and I am glad I did. so i am in between on this one with experiences.


----------



## Aunty E

Well I'm very glad that I avoided an emergency CS, I was all prepped for one and thankfully the forceps worked. I wouldn't have wanted to cope with a surgical wound on top of everything else in the week following the birth frankly, and I'm in awe of ladies who manage it. In the end my hypnobirth turned into an instrumental delivery and while I wish it hadn't, in the end I just had to let go. In my case, it wasn't anybody's fault, it just happened. There was no point to feeling bad about it, so I decided not to. If I hadn't been able to let it go, I would have seriously considered talking to a professional though, would this be an option for you Chuck? Your GP might be able to refer you for a couple of sessions, or your local NCT might be able to recommend someone.


----------



## chuck

I had my NHS sessions with a counsellor who used to be a midwife so is pretty good with the post natal stuff. Sad thing is at the end of the day all she could really say was you need to be proud you survived and are coping, you need to put it away in a box in your mind and move past it, its normal to feel the way you do but it will get easier.

Ergh, I may go to my GP and see if there's another person I can see as the lady I did see is a long way for me to travel.


----------



## Dragonfly

I think with so many in this thread no one choose one without medical reason and I dont think anyone should feel a failure they had one in here. I never got offered any councilling and I was crying when I thought about it and the traumatic labour for a long time. I feel Alex birth healed me for some reason. Also was heartbreaking not being able to change my first borns nappy.


----------



## Jenniflower

chuck said:


> I had my NHS sessions with a counsellor who used to be a midwife so is pretty good with the post natal stuff. Sad thing is at the end of the day all she could really say was you need to be proud you survived and are coping, you need to put it away in a box in your mind and move past it, its normal to feel the way you do but it will get easier.
> 
> Ergh, I may go to my GP and see if there's another person I can see as the lady I did see is a long way for me to travel.

"Put it away in a box"?!?!?! Where on earth did she learn to counsel??? You don't need to be proud of anything. What you NEED to do is feel the way you're feeling so that you can wrap your mind around how you feel. Honestly, some people should not be allowed to be called a "counselor".


----------



## Samantha675

chuck said:


> Smudgelicious said:
> 
> 
> It often seems forgotten in the debate of who did it 'right' or not, that the aim of pregnancy is a healthy child of a healthy mother. If that outcome is achieved with every single technological intervention possible in a hospital, or at home with a midwife, WHO CARES ? One or the other is not a superior experience. And birth fades in the experience of actually raising children. [/B]
> 
> Hmmm see it's that kind of thing that hits me hard 'who cares?' - I care! I care so much that I didn't get to do things how I wanted and I dint get a CS to save my life or that of my baby I suffered a EMCS because I ran out of NHS time. I hated every second of my baby removal because I was alone in a a theatre full of people ho didn't take into account I was supposed to be giving birth not having a tooth extraction.
> 
> No I'm not grateful that we are both healthy and I dont care if that makes me sound like spoilt little bitch who doesnt care as there are many women who don't have healthy babies but I'm sorry it was MY experience and what happened to me is what I care about.
> 
> I spent months in tears feeling guilty, wrong and inferior and it took me a very very long time to come to terms with the fact the baby I was handed at some point after they dragged hi out was mine - he could be anyones after all I had no experience of him coming into this world.
> 
> On top of that I had thought run through my mind where I wanted to throw him at a wall when I was trying to BF as it hurt do much (tongue tied baby and bleeding nipples) and I'm so ashamed still of those thoughts and how I didnt manage to just bloody get over it and do what my baby needed.
> 
> If at the end of the day all that mattered was that he and I were safe and healthy would I have felt all of that and still sit here in tears more than a year later?
> 
> I resent my EMCS I hate it still (do you have any idea how horrible it is to say you hate how your child came into this world and hate thinking about it?), I didnt give birth the CS didnt save my life or my babies. I can't stand how 'birth' wasnt something to remember I have tried very hard with counselling to put it away in a box and forget about it but I cant. So I care how my baby made it into this world.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> Sorry sometimes it all comes welling up and I'm ill and all hormonal and I have to go through it all gain soon and I'm scared.Click to expand...


I care as well. almost 3 years later, I am in therapy to help me deal with the lose of the birth I wanted so badly when my homebirth ended with a transfer to hospital and a c-section.

I feel nothing when I think of the birth of my son, NO joy, no happiness, nothing. It is a big blank white space. Why wouldn't I care.

I HATE it when people say, well all that matter is that you are both healthy. NO, it doesn't. My son's birth was so very important to me. Hugely important, and to say that nothing else matters totally disregards how important the birth process is to me. 

Here is a link to a really great article that says what I can't really well.

https://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/CSANDVBAC/shouldbegrateful.htm


----------



## chuck

^^^^ Its good to know I'm not alone hun, I'v seen that article actually and have passed it onto a few people I know. 

X


----------



## Dragonfly

Samantha675 said:


> chuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smudgelicious said:
> 
> 
> It often seems forgotten in the debate of who did it 'right' or not, that the aim of pregnancy is a healthy child of a healthy mother. If that outcome is achieved with every single technological intervention possible in a hospital, or at home with a midwife, WHO CARES ? One or the other is not a superior experience. And birth fades in the experience of actually raising children. [/B]
> 
> Hmmm see it's that kind of thing that hits me hard 'who cares?' - I care! I care so much that I didn't get to do things how I wanted and I dint get a CS to save my life or that of my baby I suffered a EMCS because I ran out of NHS time. I hated every second of my baby removal because I was alone in a a theatre full of people ho didn't take into account I was supposed to be giving birth not having a tooth extraction.
> 
> No I'm not grateful that we are both healthy and I dont care if that makes me sound like spoilt little bitch who doesnt care as there are many women who don't have healthy babies but I'm sorry it was MY experience and what happened to me is what I care about.
> 
> I spent months in tears feeling guilty, wrong and inferior and it took me a very very long time to come to terms with the fact the baby I was handed at some point after they dragged hi out was mine - he could be anyones after all I had no experience of him coming into this world.
> 
> On top of that I had thought run through my mind where I wanted to throw him at a wall when I was trying to BF as it hurt do much (tongue tied baby and bleeding nipples) and I'm so ashamed still of those thoughts and how I didnt manage to just bloody get over it and do what my baby needed.
> 
> If at the end of the day all that mattered was that he and I were safe and healthy would I have felt all of that and still sit here in tears more than a year later?
> 
> I resent my EMCS I hate it still (do you have any idea how horrible it is to say you hate how your child came into this world and hate thinking about it?), I didnt give birth the CS didnt save my life or my babies. I can't stand how 'birth' wasnt something to remember I have tried very hard with counselling to put it away in a box and forget about it but I cant. So I care how my baby made it into this world.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> Sorry sometimes it all comes welling up and I'm ill and all hormonal and I have to go through it all gain soon and I'm scared.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I care as well. almost 3 years later, I am in therapy to help me deal with the lose of the birth I wanted so badly when my homebirth ended with a transfer to hospital and a c-section.
> 
> I feel nothing when I think of the birth of my son, NO joy, no happiness, nothing. It is a big blank white space. Why wouldn't I care.
> 
> I HATE it when people say, well all that matter is that you are both healthy. NO, it doesn't. My son's birth was so very important to me. Hugely important, and to say that nothing else matters totally disregards how important the birth process is to me.
> 
> Here is a link to a really great article that says what I can't really well.
> 
> https://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/CSANDVBAC/shouldbegrateful.htmClick to expand...

I know what you mean :hugs: article made sence to me. I think thats why I wanted another baby so much after William I wanted a normal birth and all the upset of them trying to induce me but I got my natural. It seemed to heal a lot of the emotional pain of first but I always will feel different about willims which traumatized me. I feel happy when I think of Alex birth even though it was horrendous to but not the same as as a c section birth.


----------



## Bournefree

Thank you for the great link Samantha.. it was a really good read!
xXx


----------



## bky

Even though I was horrified at the idea I might have to have a c-section before going into labour (my baby was undescended/unengaged at 41+ weeks), when I actually had the EMCS I was so not bothered about it. I'm not sure if that's because worse things (IMO) happened afterward or what. I think I'm not bothered if I'll have to have another EMCS, though of course I'll try again for a natural labour. I guess knowing I was pain free until they put the spinal in was helpful? I mean, I don't doubt I could manage a natural labour so having had it end in c-section doesn't bother me. I guess I don't feel like any mismanagement led me to a c-section either. I'm fairly sure my baby was totally wrapped up in her cord.


----------



## clairebear

Mervs Mum said:


> I once heard a MW say of the other MW in the room - she took the easy route and he came out the sunroof.....now they knew each other VERY well so the laughed and it didnt seem an issue but I dont like anyone calling it the easy route. It's WAY more risky than a vaginal delivery and I can tell you from partnering my sister and seeing her after, that was NOT easy.

Having experienced both, I agree with you 100% there is nothing 'easy' about a csection.

I also experienced mild PND which i have only recently been able to admit to myself. 

SO no its defo not 'easy' x


----------



## clairebear

Samantha675 said:


> chuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smudgelicious said:
> 
> 
> It often seems forgotten in the debate of who did it 'right' or not, that the aim of pregnancy is a healthy child of a healthy mother. If that outcome is achieved with every single technological intervention possible in a hospital, or at home with a midwife, WHO CARES ? One or the other is not a superior experience. And birth fades in the experience of actually raising children. [/B]
> 
> Hmmm see it's that kind of thing that hits me hard 'who cares?' - I care! I care so much that I didn't get to do things how I wanted and I dint get a CS to save my life or that of my baby I suffered a EMCS because I ran out of NHS time. I hated every second of my baby removal because I was alone in a a theatre full of people ho didn't take into account I was supposed to be giving birth not having a tooth extraction.
> 
> No I'm not grateful that we are both healthy and I dont care if that makes me sound like spoilt little bitch who doesnt care as there are many women who don't have healthy babies but I'm sorry it was MY experience and what happened to me is what I care about.
> 
> I spent months in tears feeling guilty, wrong and inferior and it took me a very very long time to come to terms with the fact the baby I was handed at some point after they dragged hi out was mine - he could be anyones after all I had no experience of him coming into this world.
> 
> On top of that I had thought run through my mind where I wanted to throw him at a wall when I was trying to BF as it hurt do much (tongue tied baby and bleeding nipples) and I'm so ashamed still of those thoughts and how I didnt manage to just bloody get over it and do what my baby needed.
> 
> If at the end of the day all that mattered was that he and I were safe and healthy would I have felt all of that and still sit here in tears more than a year later?
> 
> I resent my EMCS I hate it still (do you have any idea how horrible it is to say you hate how your child came into this world and hate thinking about it?), I didnt give birth the CS didnt save my life or my babies. I can't stand how 'birth' wasnt something to remember I have tried very hard with counselling to put it away in a box and forget about it but I cant. So I care how my baby made it into this world.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> Sorry sometimes it all comes welling up and I'm ill and all hormonal and I have to go through it all gain soon and I'm scared.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I care as well. almost 3 years later, I am in therapy to help me deal with the lose of the birth I wanted so badly when my homebirth ended with a transfer to hospital and a c-section.
> 
> I feel nothing when I think of the birth of my son, NO joy, no happiness, nothing. It is a big blank white space. Why wouldn't I care.
> 
> I HATE it when people say, well all that matter is that you are both healthy. NO, it doesn't. My son's birth was so very important to me. Hugely important, and to say that nothing else matters totally disregards how important the birth process is to me.
> 
> Here is a link to a really great article that says what I can't really well.
> 
> https://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/CSANDVBAC/shouldbegrateful.htmClick to expand...

^^^ WSS said.

I love both my boys the same but only have fond memories of the youngests birth.


----------



## NOMORENUMBERS

aw you know the times when i have felt like - going to be blunt here - like a piece of poo on someones shoe and about 2 inches tall was when an ill informed woman came up to me screaming that i had a c section because it was easier and that i was too posh to push

1. in labour for 3 days
2. you ever been told if we dont get your baby out in the next 20 mins he could die
3. ever tried to give birth to an 11lb 6onz baby
4. ever watched your baby fight for his life, be told he might not make it and not be able to hold him for almost a week?
despite that i still feel bad about having an emergency c section and feel bad that it looks like its going to be the same this time round 

this is a fantastic thread you have started here because i honestly do not think that others really realise how low it can make someone feel being judged even if judging wasnt even the intention, and a lot of women feel dissappointed anyway at their lack of natural birth - my birth plan was gas and air only if i need it so you can only imagine my horror

fantastic thread ladies, just as i think everyone should be informed of natural ways to help labour be more relaxing, less stressful and a more positive experience, i think it is just as important to learn about how we should all genuinely support eachother and realise that a c section is not an easy option emotionally, physically, socially, and health wise

much love ladies! xkx


----------



## Tegans Mama

I think there are a lot of things that could be on that list. There are so many things people said to me after Tegan was born that piss me off. My CS was as far from easy as it gets. I've told my story on BnB before, it's not something I talk about often because it was the most terrifying thing that has ever happened to me (my epi failed and I hemorrhaged/passed out etc) and anyone who tells me a section is EASY is told, it's not easy when you can feel it!!! I have nightmares about Tegan's birth, and I feel like people totally disregard that, my own family included. After my sister had her baby in September she actually said to me "wow Lea be glad you had a section, giving birth that way is hard work!".... I have put off having another baby for 18 months because of my fear of having another section. I don't know what I'll do if I need one, but I will NOT be having one without a fight. 

There are a lot of times when a section is not neccesary and health professionals HAVE taken it too far with how often they perform a section for "failure to progress" which is on my notes, might I add! I really, really feel like I was strung along by my Dr, who told me at first T would be delivered by section because of her SB. I feel like he wanted to stick to that plan... but I went into labour by myself, turned up at the hospital, in labour, and it didn't happen fast enough so they cut me open instead. If he'd just stuck to the plan of a section I wouldn't be so bitter about it. I HATE the fact I had a section. No one deserves to feel this way about the way your baby entered the world. 
Before I found out about Tegan's SB I was planning a Home water birth. I knew that was not possible but I really dislike the way things turned out.


----------



## Jenniflower

I have two friends that I look at when I think about this thread. One had a horrible back to back labour that caused her so much distress and pain that even after she had the Epi was still in pain trying to get her son out. In the end she had to have a c-section. Then my other friend laboured mostly at home, got to the hospital and out popped her daughter after about 30 min of pushing. 

Looking at the two I would say the latter friend had it "easier". (for a lack of a better word) I never think a section is the easy way out, ESPECIALLY not an emergency one.


----------



## widdles1985

I was induced on the Wednesday morning ( I had to be induced due to very high BP at the end of my pregnancy ) my waters went that night at 8.30 then I was in labour until Friday after 56 hours of labour and pushing for an hour I starting going into shock I had to be hooked by to a ECG they decided I was ok to push for another hour then by babys heart rate started dipping by this time I was totally exhausted... the doctor came in to excamete me and they said my babys head was at an angle that I would not be able to push him out on my own... she then told me me that she wanted me to have ventouse delivery but her consultant had strongly arrived that I have a c section with 56 hours of no sleep and in loads of pain it is not a easy dession to make I decided to go for the c-section, I did not want to but my myself or my baby under any more stress.

My LO was born Friday moring at 8.51 am via c-section 56 hours after I was induced.

The pain after a c-sessction is so bad far more then I expected and I felt horrible for the first day that I could not bath,change or dress my baby.


----------



## Incubator

I don't think 'birth' is easy. Whether it's on an emotional or physical level, or both. I have experienced a drug-free vaginal delivery and a c-section. Neither one was easy. I suffered from PTSD and sever PND after my 1st (the vaginal delivery) and spent 6 years in psychotherapy. It took me 10 years to be persuaded by my OH to have another child after my experience. After my c-section I also suffered from PND but not to the same extent. I had no problems changing or dressing my LO and I was left alone to care for her from the moment my OH left when visiting hours ended until he arrived back at 8am the next morning. I did have terrible problems breast feeding but managed to fight my way through them with a lot of help and support from my midwife. 

I think every woman should have the opportunity to try to have exactly the kind of birth she wants and I absolutely applaud the renewed interest in home birthing. However, I also really do believe that the birth is not just about the woman (and maybe this is an unpopular stand point) - it's about the safe arrival of a new life into the world. Sometimes the things that we women decide we want are sadly just not possible (especially when those cheeky babies don't play the game and refuse to come out!) and I think it's tragic that we spend so much time beating ourselves up about how things turn out when, more often than not, we had no control over the situation. 
I'm sure in some situations medical intervention is too quick to come but in others it's not. The woman giving birth is not at fault because things don't go the way she planned and the method of delivery certainly does not lesson or diminish her 'birth goddess' status at all. I know that I'd rather have my LO delivered safely and soundly into my arms over and above anything else. It does 'matter' how they get into your arms, but it's only the first step on a lifelong journey into the parenthood which is full of ups and downs and good and bad and wonder and disappointment. 

I was talking to my OH about this topic and he said the thing that flaws him most is how judgmental and critical women are of each other and of the way they have given birth. Women have a hard enough time negotiating all the prejudice and sexism and various other 'isms' in life as it is. We need to celebrate each and every birth regardless of the 'method' of delivery. Every single birth is unique, every woman will experience each birthing experience in a different way. Let's celebrate this uniqueness and be proud that our fellow women have managed to bring new life into this world regardless of how they did it. 

x


----------



## Bournefree

Incubator said:


> I was talking to my OH about this topic and he said the thing that flaws him most is how judgmental and critical women are of each other and of the way they have given birth. Women have a hard enough time negotiating all the prejudice and sexism and various other 'isms' in life as it is. We need to celebrate each and every birth regardless of the 'method' of delivery. Every single birth is unique, every woman will experience each birthing experience in a different way. Let's celebrate this uniqueness and be proud that our fellow women have managed to bring new life into this world regardless of how they did it.
> 
> x

Great post! You have really captured this wonderfully.
I know that lots of women can have a feeling of faliure or their body is a faliure.. but I think it is incredibly sad that women feel this way.. and my heart goes out to them, that they in someway feel it is THEIR fault.
XxX


----------

