# no cry sleep solution buddy



## starsunshine

Hi, I'm looking for a buddy to encourage in doing the no cry sleep solution. I'm going back to work in sept so would like to be getting more sleep by then! My lo currently feeds pretty much all night long.


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## aliss

Hi, good luck! I'm not doing it anymore but we did once upon a time.


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## starsunshine

Did it work easily enough? I can't bear to hear my lo cry so it seemed the best solution even if it takes a while.


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## aliss

I'm not gonna lie, we did it for over 3 weeks :rofl: But it really helped and now he does very well. He falls asleep to a music box now instead of the bottle!

Fast results don't come with no-cry method BUT it's well worth it!


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## mrsmurdoch

hey, dont knw much about the no crying bit as currently we cosleep and my lo is pretty much attached to my boob all night and he cries at other sleep aid attempts... even with cuddles, pat shush, rocking etc BUT i too go back to work in september and NEED more restful sleep too! x


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## starsunshine

I got out the no cry sleep solution book from my library as I'm not willing to let Leo cry! I know it takes longer but I'm happy with that. I put Leo in his cot first then when im too tired to put him back he stays in bed with us (or if I fall asleep whilst feeding). How old is u LO? 
I'm looking for someone to share the ups and Downs with &who wont tell me to just let him cry!!!


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## vespersonicca

That's a great book! :D We tried it before but I must admit that I wasn't really ready then to get LO out of our bed or stop nursing him next to me. I got lazy after a couple weeks of detaching him from the nipple (which was helping). I think he started teething badly or we went to stay at grandma's or something that messed us up...We got him to the point of nursing while I sat up and then I gave him his pacifier and laid him next to me. I would read a book and he would just dose off but continued to nurse in the night when he would wake.

NOW however, I am sleeping so badly and he refuses a pacifier and nips at the breast ALL night long! He's even waking up nearly every hour which is def taking it's toll. :( OH is currently on vacation so we are thinking to try sleep training again, maybe even start tonight! We have co-slept for 10 months but now I feel like I want him in his own bed next to us in our room. I'm thinking to try nursing him to the point of nearly being asleep and then putting him in the crib. We have done something like this before for a few weeks too. We stay with him and sing, pat his back, and pick him up if he really gets upset. I WILL NOT let him cry-it-out! EVER!


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## SBB

I'm interested in this, I need more sleep but also won't let LO cry... 

What's the basic principle if someone doesn't mind explaining? 

X x x


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## starsunshine

That's what I've been doing, feeding until nearly asleep then putting him in his cot &stroking his head until asleep. It has been helping, we had a set back with illness but last night was the best night for ages. It seems like it's one step forward two steps back sometimes, I guess i want some encouragement that it is going to work &not give up!


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## vespersonicca

SBB said:


> I'm interested in this, I need more sleep but also won't let LO cry...
> 
> What's the basic principle if someone doesn't mind explaining?
> 
> X x x

Babycenter has a basic article about no-tear methods in general here: No-tears


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## Pikkle

I'm interested too. We tried some techniques a while back, but since teething its all stopped. We move in a couple of weeks, and I guess its better to wait until we're settled. Desperately craving sleep now, but refuse to have her cry.


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## lovealittle1

I am reading this book at the moment and will hopefully implement in a few weeks. Would love to chat about it!


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## littlesez

used the NCSS and the toddler version. Its hard to describe but just recommend reading it anyway. ITs a book where you choose the plan you want depending on your circumstances then follow the plan.

Its got a collection of solutions which are hand picked so its got some for FF, some for BF, soem for co-sleepers soem for not ect ect ect...

Its NOT a quick fix but its great long term and so just go for an open mind :D


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## mrsmurdoch

my lo is 6 months now, sleeps in bed with me all night (WELL IF SLEEP IS WHAT YOU CALL IT LOL!) grunts and shuffles about, wakes up almost 2 hourly now (worse than when he was newborn) as he gets bad wind from nursing on and off all night and has just started the joyous trick of biting mummy and waking her up in the night too which is just bloody awful and so not much sleep all round at all anymore! I hate the thought of him crying and leaving him alone to sleep but we are getting desperate and as i said i am returning to work in september so am reserching all avenues as unfortunately he is a bit of a crier in general. Even taking him off the boob when he is asleep is a struggle, the slightest movement me rolling away across the bed as quiet as possible or whatever sets him off screaming again until my boob is back in his mouth where he thinks it belongs!!! will defo read up on this stuff and start straight away if they are slower solutions x good luck to others tryingit out x


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## starsunshine

Well my boy has just decided that even if he's pretty much asleep in my arms he wakes up as soon as i put him in his cit, rolls over and sits up!!!! Anyone got suggestions to tacke this? We were makibg progress!


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## vespersonicca

starsunshine said:


> Well my boy has just decided that even if he's pretty much asleep in my arms he wakes up as soon as i put him in his cit, rolls over and sits up!!!! Anyone got suggestions to tacke this? We were makibg progress!

It was explained to me that when a baby falls asleep in one place, your arms for example, and then wakes up in another, the crib for example, it would feel to us like we went to sleep in the bedroom and woke up in the bathroom. We would feel disoriented and probably scared! Babies are stubborn too. They like to keep things the way they are and will cry and cry and cry until the scenario is reverted back to what it was before sleep. :hissy:

We have done so that I nurse him and then when he is drowsy I say goodnight, mommy loves you, and then lay him in the crib. The first night I left and daddy stayed with him and rubbed his back and picked him up when he got really upset. I came in a couple times too to calm him down. It took 1hr. I didn't like the way that felt though. Even though daddy was always there, he wanted mommy and couldn't relax so the second night I nursed him and laid him down and both daddy and I stayed there. He calms immediately in my arms but I taught him that I would always lay him back down and rub his back after his breathing calms. I had to pick him up 3 times. He was asleep in 30 min. 

We're on day three of sleep school now and I am so relieved to report that Ash was asleep in his own crib within 15 min! :happydance: I can't believe how fast it was! I nursed him and laid him down and he didn't even cry. He looked at me and turned his head and fell asleep.


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## starsunshine

Yeah that's what I've been doing, putting him down sleepy. It's just that now he turns over and sits up! He cant turn on his back &certainly wouldn't want to!


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## vespersonicca

It's exhausting picking him up and laying him back down again, over and over and over... but I hear that's how they learn. The most important thing is consistency. 

I don't even get what's been happening with us! The initial time to fall asleep has been halved each night but the first night was the best night in terms of how I slept. He only woke once! Every night since then he has been in his own bed but waking every couple hours. :( I know we just started and I am really thrilled that he seems to be getting better with falling asleep on his own but I can't wait to sleep more than 3 hours at one time again!!!


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## vespersonicca

So how is everyone sleeping?


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## starsunshine

I think we've had a breakthrough. Last night Leo slept from 7-10.30, then woke at 3, 4.20, &6. That was nearly the 5hours we're aiming for as the first goal!!! It's a million miles away from where we began this journey and all with no crying, yippee stuff you GF!!! Lol! 

How's everyone else?


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## vespersonicca

Well, we're about a week into our sleep school. I give Ash milk while sitting up and he almost always tries to fall asleep at the breast. I detach him before he can though and lay him down. More often than not he gets up and makes a fuss. I usually have to pick him up and calm him down 3-4 times for he'll finally settle enough to fall asleep sometime between 8-9:30pm. I've been singing to him a lot which has been really nice. We are a bilingual family (English and Finnish) so it is great for his language development. 

He's been getting up the first time between 1:30-3am and I try to calm him and get him to sleep without nursing but it hasn't worked yet. That's ok though because I'm not pressing to have him in his own bed AND lose the night feedings at the same time. We can work on that later. He gets up again around 5am and I bring him to bed with me then and nurse him to sleep. That way he gives me another 1-2.5hrs of sleep. He wakes up around 6:45-7:15am most mornings. There have been some nights where he has woken up 3-4 times too. Those suck but we're sticking to having him in the crib. I've been sleeping better now too although I am still very tired.


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## vespersonicca

I should add that it's been a real joy to co-sleep with him those last couple hours in the morning now that I'm sleeping better. I'm ready for a little cuddle then. :)


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## lovealittle1

Things have been on the back burner around here. My inlaws are here from the uk so now is not the time to start anything. Next week though we will be trying a few new things.


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## Lillylemon

Hi girls,

I was wondering how you are all going with the NCSS? I have a 12-month-old who I am trying to get used to falling asleep off the breast and also want to deal with the night-wakings too. Last night I tried the pull-off technique but he woke even more frequently than usual. Does anyone know if this is 'normal' at first? And also I understand the idea of it but how will it help me ever put him straight in to his cot awake, won't he always expect to suckle for a few minutes first? 

x


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## Pikkle

Think we may be joining in with this soon too. Have just moved house, so DD still in our bed (well cot half the night, bed the other half) But noone is getting any sleep anymore, and it just isn't working. 

A part of me is sad about it, but I think its good for her as well as us, because we are all just so tired now, she is 19 months old. I tried to night wean at 15 months old, which worked when she slept alone with daddy, but not when I came back in to the room. To be honest I was too lazy to continue trying!

Anyway, would you recommend night weaning then moving to another room, both together, or moving to another room and then feeding back to sleep etc and then night weaning?!


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## bky

I need a buddy! I'm about done with the log. A lot of what we do already is stuff recommended in the book, but mine has always had serious issues with being put down (can take up to 40 minutes to get her asleep enough to not be held, 15 minimum if I'm lucky) and then if she wakes she freaks out, repeat. We've been doing the getting used to cot thing, but even when that works she still wakes up every 1-3 hours throughout the night. :?

We're at (and have been for several months) at the stage of she goes to sleep in her cot and anywhere from 2-4 hours later she wakes and comes in our bed for the rest of the night where she may sleep 2-4 hour stretches or wake up every hour depending. I've about managed to put her back in her bed 2 nights in a row, but then I get too tired and wake up and she's in bed with me...and I don't remember putting her there. :?


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## vespersonicca

We've been working on our sleep training now for about 6 weeks. It seemed that it was a big waste of time for the longest time but now we are happy we stuck with it! Our "training" was basically that daddy did our night routine except the part when DS came with me into the shower. Then we all went into the bedroom as a family with low lighting and quiet. I would sit up and nurse him trying to get him to the point of nearly falling asleep but not not quite. Then I put him into his crib right next to our bed and said "goodnight, mommy loves you." If he was reaaallly tired and just short of sleep he would doze off but most of the time, especially in the beginning, he would protest being in the crib and would pull up and cry. Everytime he did this we would try to lay him back down but if he got really upset then he got to come into my lap to calm down. Eventually he would fall asleep in the crib. 

We also started with Pantley's removal from the nipple when he was still in bed with us at 10 months but it was hard to remember to do in the middle of the night. I was always sooo tired that I just got the boob out and went back to sleep! DS only spends the first half of the night or a little more if I manage in his crib, usually from 830ish pm- 1/3am. Then he sleeps next to me in the bed but he wakes up SO much more when next to me. I want to try to cut out more and more night feedings by always offering the water cup first. I try now but I forget sometimes. I also want to try to extend how long he stays in the crib until he comes to me. I'm hoping that eventually I'll just wake up and it'll be morning! I haven't slept for more than 5 hours in a row (and that only twice!) since he was born! We talked a lot about whether to cut the night feedings and then put him in his crib or vice versa or both at once. I didn't want to to be too dramatic of a change for him. It wasn't really possible in the end cut feedingd if he slept next to me anyway because the boob was too close at hand :rofl:

Now, after 6ish weeks, I nurse him, he gets drowsy, I lay him down and he stays there. He shifts back and forth a bit trying to get comfortable. Me and DH sing him lullabies and he doses off on his own. It is BEAUTIFUL to watch! He doesn't always manage to be calm right away but we offer water as much as he wants and he sits in our laps until he seems calm enough. I think he has finally learned to fall asleep on his own, even if he does seem to protest sometimes! :happydance:


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## Farie

We used it roughly, not to the letter but I used her ideas
It wasn't fast (took well over a month in total) but now LO has great sleep associations and will self settle for naps and at bedtime


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## LuckyD

It's great to read that some of you are having good experiences with NCSS. I have just read the book and thinking about starting it soon....I am keen to have Lucy be able to fall asleep by herself, at the moment bedtime is a loooooong process and there are many wake-ups before she will finally sleep for a few hours in a row!

It just seems like quite a daunting process, I know it is worth it in the long run but I feel a bit overwhelmed by the idea of it all at the moment!


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## bky

I just wish I'd started sooner. I listened to everyone who said she'd grow out of it. Maybe some or even most babies do, but at 13 months things seem worse than ever. 
I guess on the bright side she no longer needs the boob to sleep, but she does need it to *get* sleepy. :(


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## Pikkle

Just ordered it from the library!

When I am done, I could do with a buddy too ... ! xx


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## Ju1i4

I've got this book and really need to do this but keep putting it off!

Violet is 13 months now and I've been kidding myself for months that she'll miraculously do it all by herself, lol. I also have a 3 yr old who's always been a dream at going to bed so having one who I have to cuddle to sleep every night has some as a bit of a shock to the system.

It's great to hear that you're all getting results from this. If one more person tells me to just let her cry it out I will scream! :hissy:


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## starsunshine

Hi its been good catching up with everyone and very encouraging. I've been trying really hard to take Leo off before he's asleep. Its been going well, I have let him moan but not cry if that makes sense? Leo's gone from waking hourly to waking at 10.30, 2, 4 then he comes in bed with us &feeds on and off til 6.30 wake up time. We've stopped for the no as he has a cold and chesty cough :( but I am determined to do this without crying!!!! I could do with help at the 2 feed-how do you encourage that one to go?


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## vespersonicca

starsunshine said:


> Leo's gone from waking hourly to waking at 10.30, 2, 4 then he comes in bed with us &feeds on and off til 6.30 wake up time. We've stopped for the no as he has a cold and chesty cough :( but I am determined to do this without crying!!!! I could do with help at the 2 feed-how do you encourage that one to go?

That sounds exactly like our nights! I have to admit that I've been so dead tired at the 2am waking though that I have been putting LO into our bed with the boob and going back to sleep. I hasn't been worth it though because he sleeps for longer stretches in the crib since he doesn't nip at the breast all night long there. When I feel up to it I try to give water and sooth him in my lap. I can usually set him down after that and he'll go back to sleep. I am also ready to get rid of the night feedings. LO is going to be a year old in a few short weeks and really does NOT need it!


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## starsunshine

Glad I'm not the only one (it sometimes feels like I am!).
Last night started off great - Leo went down awake in his cot & fell asleep (after lots of patting & rubbing & lullabies!) He then slept until 12 (that's 5hrs!!! woohoo)
Then he woke up at 2 & 4 & then refused to go back to sleep! So I brought him into bed & he woke up OH who was then really grumpy this am (obviously because he hadn't had much sleep & isn't very well either)

I'm kind of hoping that Leo will keep on expanding on that 1st part of the night's sleep. Is that how it works? Or do you think I should work on the 2 feed? he didn't need milk then. At 12 he drank loads & loads so I'm sure he needed that one but at 2 & 4 he hardly had any - it was for comfort.


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## LuckyD

That's great he slept 5 hours in a row!

And that we went to sleep in his cot...that's what we are working on at the moment.

What happens if at 2am you just rock him/pat him etc instead of feeding him? I have tried to do that with Lucy in the past but she has just screamed, and I end up feeding her!

I am getting my OH to read the book and then I think we are going to start a proper plan. We already do a bedtime routine and as I said, we are currently working on putting her down awake....


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## Lillylemon

vespersonicca said:


> Now, after 6ish weeks, I nurse him, he gets drowsy, I lay him down and he stays there. He shifts back and forth a bit trying to get comfortable. Me and DH sing him lullabies and he doses off on his own. It is BEAUTIFUL to watch!

This sounds exactly like us at the moment - and I completely agree, it is beautiful to watch your LO fall asleep on their own and not by crying. I actually cried the first couple of nights hearing him softly snore! 

We have managed 4 nights in a row now where he's gone down drowsy...I just swapped the routine, didn't think it would work for a minute! I am not sure it has helped night wakings but we've had some good nights the past 2 or 3 with 5 or 6hr stretches. Still at least 2 wakings though, which I can't do anything but breastfeed. 

My next step is I'd like to start trying to re-settle in the night using something other than breastfeeding, so DH can help too. Any ideas how to do this without tears??! My LO wakes and is basically angry as he wants to go back to sleep. You cannot reason with him...he throws himself around, won't sit in your lap, won't be cuddled, won't accept water. If I have to change his nappy it's horrible, he screams and gets very distressed. Is trying the gentle removal the only answer? I don't really like the idea of sending in DH (which will make LO even crosser) and LO wondering where I am :shrug:


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## starsunshine

LO slept from 7-2.45am last night can't quite believe it myself!!!! 

I always give him a feed i its been more than 2hrs. I listen carefully and take him off when he's finished drinking and cuddle to sleep -during the night. If I've just given him a feed, he's gone tto sleep but woken up again then i cuddle him. He does moan a little but not for long &then goes back to sleep.

I bring him into bed with us about 4 otherwise he just moans until we wake up (I think he would anyway!)


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## vespersonicca

Happy birthday to your LO Lillylemon! I am trying to cut out the middle feeding but I've been lousy at it. I am just so tired that I put LO in bed next to me and nurse. Bad bad bad me. I WANT him to sleep in his crib now! I've found that he is angry and cries our of frustration in the night. I pick him up and comfort him and he cries until his head hits the crib and then he passes out. I finally figured out that sometimes he doesn't want me to cam him, just put him back down comfortably!


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## pattysurveys

Have you tried the Sleep Sense by Dana Obleman? It definitely worked for us! https://www.onesmileymonkey.com/2011/07/sleep-sense-program-by-dana-obleman.html
A bit like the cry out but not 100%


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## starsunshine

Just so you all know, we had a terrible night last night. Leo woke at 10.30 when we went to bed, oh who had come in from work after he went to bed came in and gave him a hug, leo woke up &I couldnt get him back to sleep until 12.30when I gave up &fed him to sleep! One step forward, steps back!


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## vespersonicca

starsunshine said:


> One step forward, steps back!

That's how it goes. Eventually you will move forward again. :hugs:


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## bky

Anyone had issues introducing a comfort object? I've tried but it's like she's on to my plan and gets mad and throws the things away if they are even touching either of us.

Also I've gotten to the point where she no longer needs BF to fall asleep (she now pulls herself off and then goes to sleep), but she needs it to get sleepy (this is after quite some time using PPO). Nothing else works despite having a routine associated. I can pretty much take away any other aspect of the routine:?
Any ideas?


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## starsunshine

I've tried introducing one but Leo just isn't bothered! He will hold onto a teddy but drops it quickly, its deg not used as a comforter! I don't know what to suggest rxcept keep trying & eventually she'll get it. 

I don't think its a problem if they use boob to get sleepy (Leo def does) if you're wanting to wean completely then that's different but I don't have any advice sorry :( hopefully someone else can help with that issue.


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## bky

Yeah, unfortunately I'm looking at complete weaning if I don't start ovulating soon. Hard as my heart's not really in it, LO won't take any bottle, and only cups with water are acceptable, no comfort object outside of me etc etc. :( I don't see how it's remotely feasible for us, but still under pressure IYKWIM.


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## vespersonicca

Asher gets sleepy with the breast and then I lay him down. I don't mind that as I'm not weaning him completely right now. I might also need to ponder this further if I don't get pregnant since we are TTC #2. Hopefully it won't affect though. 

As for the comfort object, not all children take them. Some will take one and all hell breaks loose if something happens to it and some do something in between. Ash likes one of my washable breast pads to rub his cheek with while nursing. He doesn't seem bothered which it is or even if it's been worn since the wash but it probably still smells like me even after a wash. Have you tried giving something that smells like you?


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## vespersonicca

^ I should add that I just gave the breast pad in the hand to keep him from scratching me and I think it became a habit from there. He seems to calm in the night better if I put one by his face even if I don't nurse...


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## bky

Right now we have a specific piece of muslin that I've hand expressed some milk onto and wore in my shirt for a day. She gets mad when I'm around and I try to get her to pinch it instead of me, but will cuddle on it on daddy, so I guess she's taking to it. I think she has the idea that it's supposed to be an 'instead of mommy' object so it pisses her off. :lol:


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## vespersonicca

bky said:


> I think she has the idea that it's supposed to be an 'instead of mommy' object so it pisses her off. :lol:

:rofl:


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## Mummy2Asher

Can I join please? Tristan is 1 next week and wakes roughly every 30mins and is just attached to the boob all night. Really can't go on like this....he's been doing it since January. It's got to the point where I feel guilty as my eldest is on summer holidays but by lunch time im sooo tired. I don't even know where to start...I have the no cry sleep book.


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## vespersonicca

Mummy2Asher said:


> Can I join please? Tristan is 1 next week and wakes roughly every 30mins and is just attached to the boob all night. Really can't go on like this....he's been doing it since January. It's got to the point where I feel guilty as my eldest is on summer holidays but by lunch time im sooo tired. I don't even know where to start...I have the no cry sleep book.

Of course you can! Have you read the book? What ideas seem to suited for your family? We started by continuing with our co-sleeping but focusing on the gentle removal technique for initially geting our Asher ;) to sleep. We moved on from there once we were all sleeping horribly (Ash started kicking and waking A LOT more than usual at some point) by staying with him and getting him sleepy at the breast and to fall asleep in his crib. It took us nearly 2 months but now he can fall asleep. I have now moved on to focusing on his night feedings. I want to use cuddling and water to sooth him instead of the breast in the hopes that he might stop waking up every 2-3 hours!


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## starsunshine

Welcome mummy to asher. We're using the gentle removal technique. Leo has always slept in his cot beside our bed so we left him there & moved out into a different bedroom. We left a bed in there for the nights when he needs to co sleep. We were doing really well about a week ago & starting to make real improvements but we've had 2 teeth come through so he's been waking loads!! I give him a bed time feed (no longer gets sleepy at this) then cuddle till v sleepy & put in his cot. When he wakes I cuddle first, if that doesn't work then I give him a feed & try to stay awale so that j can take him off brfire hes totally asleep! I might have to try some other strategies for night feeds but I want to wait jntil hes one to do them. Pro ably in Oct 1/2 term


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## JellyBeann

Hiya guys, I am trying to get LO in his own bed (he's 19 months) But I am dead against letting him cry! Gonner get the book from the librabry I think this week sometime! Support would be aces!


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## kim051

Hi everyone,
I haven't slept more than 2 hours ina stretch for months, he's nearly 9 months old now and I'm looking for a solution. which book do you all use? 
everyone keeps telling me to let him cry it out but it feels so wrong! I would like some sleep soon tho....


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## starsunshine

Hiya and welcome. The book is called "the no cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth pantley. 

My LO slept terrible about 4 weeks ago, waking every hour in the night whether I was in the room or not. I had to learn the difference between crying and moaning but once I did he's slept better and better (with a coiple of big set backs!) Last night he went to bed in his own cot at 7, woke up at 12 for a feed, we both fell asleep in our bed (unintentional!!!) And woke at 6 for a feed and up for the day. That is pretty much unheard of for me. I'm hoping it continues! 

I hope that gives you some hope that you can train sleep without CC as i said previously, I have let him moan but as soon as it turned into crying I stopped or if i thought that he was scared I stopped.


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## vespersonicca

Hehe we're gathering a little crowd! Great! How has everyone else been doing?


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## JellyBeann

I still need to get hold of the book,. I've not been out of the house except for work for over a week lol, I'm turning into a hermi haha!!


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## kim051

starsunshine said:


> Hiya and welcome. The book is called "the no cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth pantley.
> 
> Thanks, have just reserved it at the library. Lets hope i doesn't take to long to get it....
> 
> too tired to try anything yet tho...he always seems to be teething at the mo
> oh and he sounds likes he's going to wake up....3rd time and it's only 11pm :(


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## starsunshine

Kim051 aw bless, totally know how that feels. I hope you get the book soon. We were like that for ages, but please have some hope. Leo's now waking around 3 hours apart, we seem to have slipped so I'm stepping up a gear! I've got one week left before work so I've got one week left to sort his sleeping out! My goal is for Leo to wake just once during the night.
How's everyone else doing?


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## JellyBeann

I've just ordered my book off Amazon, should be here Tuesday! I did think about getting it from the library, but I like to make notes in my books lol

So I'll be properly joining you all next week...does anyone want a buddy at all? I know this thread will be lots of support, but someone to PM might be handy too?!


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## JellyBeann

Hiya! I have just opened my mail from amazon, with my book in, and I haven't put it down, I am on page 173 lol! I think we are going to start the Gentle removal plan tonight! 

We're going to do it with LO in his bed and me in mine, then I'll go into him when he wakes! I'll try and not fall asleep in bed with him either! How is everyone else doing?


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## JellyBeann

Ive just put Ollie down using the gentle removal plan method! He usually goes down about 9/10pm, but hasn't had a nap today, so I am hoping that this is his bedtime tonight! It took us 3 cycles to get him down, and I have left one of his fave toys in there with him! Hopefully he will stay asleep for a while now!


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## starsunshine

ooh how did it go? we've been having some bad nights for a while, it was going so right but now he's back to his old habits waking every hoyr or so. help!!!!!!! i nearly crashed our car yestrday, that'sa how tired i am! not good! i'm also back at work in 5 days and don't want to be sick through tiredness so am really wanting this nipped in the bud like now! i was thinking of cutting out the night feeds between 10 and 3, giving me 5 hours sleep and leo can "sleep through the night" has ayone got to ths stage? he's fine at letting go, he'll do it first time, roll over and go to sleep, it's just not keeping him asleep at the mo. so i have to do something before i kill us all in a crash! i was thinking of giving him some water or milk in a cup if he woke and then cuddling to sleep. all advice welcome.


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## bky

I keep backsliding about cutting out night feeds because I'll do them in my sleep. I seriously don't remember bringing LO into bed with me :wacko: Self control is not for the sleep deprived. 
I guess I have it ok. Unless my LO is teething/growing/sick/learned something new etc (which is actually pretty much always one of the above) she'll sleep from 7:30-1am and 1am to 4 and then 4-6am. I thought about trying a dream feed, but she won't take one. Our day naps are now BF free, but I can't see how to make nights that way since I can do something for one or two nights and then I turn into a 'do whatever is easy' sleep zombie and it took weeks to get naps like this.


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## JellyBeann

starsunshine said:


> ooh how did it go? we've been having some bad nights for a while, it was going so right but now he's back to his old habits waking every hoyr or so. help!!!!!!! i nearly crashed our car yestrday, that'sa how tired i am! not good! i'm also back at work in 5 days and don't want to be sick through tiredness so am really wanting this nipped in the bud like now! i was thinking of cutting out the night feeds between 10 and 3, giving me 5 hours sleep and leo can "sleep through the night" has ayone got to ths stage? he's fine at letting go, he'll do it first time, roll over and go to sleep, it's just not keeping him asleep at the mo. so i have to do something before i kill us all in a crash! i was thinking of giving him some water or milk in a cup if he woke and then cuddling to sleep. all advice welcome.

Has he got a favourite soft toy you can put in with him? Might help him settle down? I've got Ollie's fave in with him, it doesn't quiet him yet, but it's only been one night!! Also, a cup of water sounds good, it's worth a try!


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## JellyBeann

Our night went okay, he was slepping on and off since 6:45, and the method was working brilliantly, but at 12:30 he woke up, and was awake for an hour and a quarter,as soon as I'd remove the nipple, he'd be awake again, and I just took him to our bed with us...hopefully this will start to ease over the next few nights!!

How is everyone else doing?


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## starsunshine

bky said:


> I keep backsliding about cutting out night feeds because I'll do them in my sleep. I seriously don't remember bringing LO into bed with me :wacko: Self control is not for the sleep deprived.
> I guess I have it ok. Unless my LO is teething/growing/sick/learned something new etc (which is actually pretty much always one of the above) she'll sleep from 7:30-1am and 1am to 4 and then 4-6am. I thought about trying a dream feed, but she won't take one. Our day naps are now BF free, but I can't see how to make nights that way since I can do something for one or two nights and then I turn into a 'do whatever is easy' sleep zombie and it took weeks to get naps like this.

Totally know about this!!! I did that every night until we moved out of his room! That was the only way I could wake up enough. 

We had what I'd call a successful night. i decided not to feed him between 11 &6. He took it really well and didn't really even fuss. He was obviously ready for the next step. He woke at 1. The only problem I had was putting him in his cot sk I just brought him into bed and he fell asleep really easily so I'm thinking I won't try to keep him in his cot as the goal is better sleep and we managed that last night.


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## bky

Yay for successful nights. I think we're either teething or a bit sick here so just hoping for some sleep.

Yeah, we plan to try moving her to her own room when the weather gets a bit warmer, so in the next month or two :shock: OH is happy for her to stay in our room until whenever (3-4) if necessary but wants her more out of our bed.


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## vespersonicca

bky said:


> Yeah, we plan to try moving her to her own room when the weather gets a bit warmer, so in the next month or two :shock:

Haha. This confused me since I'm in Finland and we are just getter colder and coooooooollder! Then I noticed you're in NZ. :wacko:

Anyway, our nights have been so-so. Ash wakes about every 2-3 hours so 12ish, 2-3ish, and then again around 5. I'm trying to nurse him only at the 4-5am waking since I have the most difficulty getting him to settle back then. He sleeps mostly in the crib these days but when he makes a big fuss I've put him next to me and just required him to settle without the breast but he gets the smell obviously. That has actually worked too! I couldn't believe it at first... 

I guess it's progress too that he doesn't necessarily wake fully anymore at all wakings. We have had several nights where, if I'm fast, I can put my hand on his back and stroke it and he will just fall back asleep. I'm hoping that for those first two wakings when that is most successful that he will one day (in my dreams!) just sleep through! :thumbup:


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## starsunshine

I've cut out night feeds and it went really well. Leo wasn't really waking up & definitely wasn't drinking anything. He wakes at 2-5 am ish and wa.Ta to sleep with us then wakes at 6 for a feed. I'm feeling much better now after a few nights like this.


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## kim051

ouah you guys are doing great!!!Progress is possible then, good to know...
have got the book and read it,loved it! It's nice to hear that I haven't got to let him cry it out if I want a good night sleep!Sso will start changing a few things :thumbup:
I tried to keep a log yesterday but i just couldn't stay awake LOL 
gentle removal plan is def what I need to do, he just doesn't realize he can go to sleep without boob at the mo!
When do you guys have dinner and stuff?I'm torn between later family dinner or earlier dinner on his own and then a better bed night routine.......


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## lucy_x

HI girls, Not sure but could this system work for me?

I dont want LO out of the bed yet, Im not ready at all for that, But what i would like is to stop her constantly using me (or rather my boobs) as a sorce of comfort / to get to sleep...

This applys to naps aswel....How would i start this? A the moment (started today) I just let her get ery very tired, and pick her up and let her cry herself to sleep :(....Iv hated it but i want my boobs back! (atleast for nap times, i know the difference between feeding and napping)

Any suggestions girls!?


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## bky

For naps I did gentle removal then put mine over my shoulder and rocked her the rest of the way off. After a few (1-2) weeks I didn't need to do the feed/removal and could just go to rocking. I was getting from there to being put in her cot/lying in bed, but then she got sick.
When mine gets sick everything goes out the window and it takes weeks to get back to where we were.
Which is where I'm at now. :(


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## JellyBeann

lucy_x said:


> HI girls, Not sure but could this system work for me?
> 
> I dont want LO out of the bed yet, Im not ready at all for that, But what i would like is to stop her constantly using me (or rather my boobs) as a sorce of comfort / to get to sleep...
> 
> This applys to naps aswel....How would i start this? A the moment (started today) I just let her get ery very tired, and pick her up and let her cry herself to sleep :(....Iv hated it but i want my boobs back! (atleast for nap times, i know the difference between feeding and napping)
> 
> Any suggestions girls!?

There is a section about coninuing co-sleeping but stopping the BF all night!


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## starsunshine

Kim051 it took me ages but when I cut out night feeds he was ready for it. We had a couple of nights of moaning and then he got it. He never cried which I am so thankful for but I reckon it was because of all the prep I did beforehand. He now wakes around midnight to co-sleep & wants a feed at 5ish


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## kim051

starsunshine said:


> Kim051 it took me ages but when I cut out night feeds he was ready for it. We had a couple of nights of moaning and then he got it. He never cried which I am so thankful for but I reckon it was because of all the prep I did beforehand. He now wakes around midnight to co-sleep & wants a feed at 5ish

How did you know he was ready? what did you do to get him ready?

i really need to cut down his feed, he's 9 months old and eating more than ever, he's off his solid food cos he's so full on milk and doesn't actually take in much at any one feed at night....but i'm reluctant to do much as his top teeth are coming out right now! at the same time not sure how long i can last like this tho....he's not even sleeping well when i bring him in our bed anymore, wakes up asking for milk all the time....:cry:


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## starsunshine

Yeah Leo would be the same waking about every hour. I started ny doing the gentle removal plan. At the end he was still waking hourly but would take one mouthful, come off & roll over. He was also cuddling to sleep between 7-11 then the hourly waking for milk began. It took abput 6weeks to get to that stage.


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## kim051

.....so it's a long road to a good night sleep :cry:
Started the gentle removal and he doesn't like it at all but does fall asleep with me rocking him after a few goes and no crying so I'm sure he'll get it at some point.one of his top teeth has come through today :happydance: so hopefully the second one will come out too soon and then at least he won't be in constant pain.which should help
He now sleeps for an hours, nurses for 2 min then sleeps for 2 hours but after that he wakes up every 15 minutes until I take him in our bed.... How does he know we are in bed? that's when he really starts kicking off lol!
Hope leo keeps letting you sleep!


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## starsunshine

Yeah not sure how they know if ur in bed or not, they're so clever! Leo had his best night sleep last night. He went from 7.30-5 without waking up!!!!!! I on the other hand . . . Well that's another story. I woke when he usually would wake, waited for him to cry ... !!!! I was so glad that he woke at 5 I was starting to panic thar he was ok!!!!! Lol! He's also gone from taking 3steps by himself to taking 9! Go leo!


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## JellyBeann

Well, Ollie stayed at my mums last night, as well as me! And he slept in with her (he wanted to!) So no news to report for last night as of yet! Tonight is yet to come! Hope you all have good nights tonight!


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## kim051

ouah Go Leo and Ollie!:happydance:
not much progress here but two top teeth have come through...FINALLY! so we're bound to get some better night soon!:thumbup:


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## bky

Anyone got any advice about getting a toddler to...well go in their cot without screaming or immediately standing up? We put the side back on her cot some time ago, but since then obviously need to settle her to sleep elsewhere and then lift her in :nope: Often she'll wake up when we try to put her down, so getting her in for a nap is sometimes a several hour ordeal (settle, put down, fail, resettle, repeat). I'm strongly considering taking the side back off the cot just so she can get the lying down in bed sleep association rather than the over the shoulder sleep association...but then what to do about naps and her escaping? I guess she's big enough to get down if we put up a bedrail that doesn't cover the whole side.
Ugh we were doing ok, but every time she gets sick it's like we lose months of progress and she's really getting too heavy for these antics.


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## vespersonicca

bky said:


> Anyone got any advice about getting a toddler to...well go in their cot without screaming or immediately standing up? We put the side back on her cot some time ago, but since then obviously need to settle her to sleep elsewhere and then lift her in :nope: Often she'll wake up when we try to put her down, so getting her in for a nap is sometimes a several hour ordeal (settle, put down, fail, resettle, repeat). I'm strongly considering taking the side back off the cot just so she can get the lying down in bed sleep association rather than the over the shoulder sleep association...but then what to do about naps and her escaping? I guess she's big enough to get down if we put up a bedrail that doesn't cover the whole side.
> Ugh we were doing ok, but every time she gets sick it's like we lose months of progress and she's really getting too heavy for these antics.

Aww no advice off the top of my head but I hope someone can help you. :hugs:


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## JellyBeann

LO hated his cot...did exactly what you LO is doing...so we got him a bed! And he goes in it fine! Maybe try a bed for her? Or take her cot mattress off and put it on the floor, just to see if it makes any difference?


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## bky

We had some success with nap time today. Usually it goes me rocking her for 20ish minutes then try and put her down without waking her (this part has taken up to 2 hours before, though 8-9 times out of 10 it's fine), then she'll nap ok, anywhere from 1-3 hours. After a few failed lie downs I got her to lie in her bed, cuddling me, no BF and she went to sleep. Only slept for an hour, but hey. I think it was the right thing to do. When we'd (OH insisted) put the side back on before we hadn't gotten the gentle removal perfected (or consistent) so I think this is better. Of course, she's had 1 hour of nap today, it's almost 9pm and she's usually off at 7:30pm and she.is.not.tired. :dohh:


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## kim051

yeah a little bit of progress here!:happydance: he now sleeps up to 3h in a strech and in his own bed till 4-5 am!!!!! to most mums i know this would be a bad night but it's a great step in the right diection for us! hope it last and gets even better!

still working on gentle removal, finding it hard to time it right during the night tho as s.times still swallowing milk but already asleep :dohh: he does turn over and fall asleep without nursing after some effort in the evening but in my bed as i find that if i try to move him to his cot he wakes up fully, ready to play!

naps which used to be really good n at the same time everyday are now all over the place.............could he be trying to go down to one nap a day already?

how are you all doing?


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## JellyBeann

We've stopped putting him in his bed atm, as his room's gone freezing at night, so I'm getting a space heater and putting that in there Monday! He now falls asleep without booby some nights !


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## vespersonicca

JellyBeann said:


> We've stopped putting him in his bed atm, as his room's gone freezing at night, so I'm getting a space heater and putting that in there Monday! He now falls asleep without booby some nights !

YAY for boobless sleeping! :happydance:


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## starsunshine

Kim, my Lo has had irregular maps for a while, think he's just about at 2hrs once a daynow but prob started at 9 months.
Yeah for everyone's success. Unfortunately we've gone 10steps back! As soon as I went back to work it all got messed up so I'm just patiently riding it out in the hope that one day he'll get used to me not being there some days :( bless him


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## LockandKey

I could use a buddy, I've never let DD cry herself to sleep. She usually likes to nurse herself to sleep, and most mornings she will go to sleep by herself. She does like a bit of white noise, and I love to cuddle with her. She will be moving into her own room at month 6, and I'm a bit worried as to how that will blow over in the mornings. As of now DD wakes up for a feed around 6am, and then I put her back down, fully awake, she will go to sleep within 10 mins by herself, but she needs the background noise of the A/C and the tv to help her, obviously there's no TV in her room. I'm not looking forward to this. She usually adapts very well, so I'm hoping it all goes ok


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## kim051

Hi Lock and Key! Welcome to the group! Sounds like your little Nora is doing great! Does she wake much at night?
How is everyone else doing? Leo resettled a little, it's hard when you go back to work but i'm sure he'll get used to it after a little while :flower:
some success here, benjamin is waking 2-3 times a night! and sleeping in his own cot until 5 most nights! Its so nice not to be exhausted!:happydance:


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## JellyBeann

LO stayed at my mums friday night, and woke once for her! No such luck at home though! He woke twice before midnight, and then got into bed with us on his own!


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## starsunshine

Hi, sorry I've not been on here for ages, I have started back at work & don't seem to have time for anything! Leo's not well so I'm off looking after him. He's been off food & only having milk so needless to say night time has been lots of wakings! He's eaten some brekkie this am so hopefully he's on the mend now. How Ru all doing?


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## vespersonicca

I wound up in the hospital for a week with gallstones and Ash slept in his own bed waking only 1 or 2 times in the night. Once he even got up on his own, got water, and went back to sleep until morning! No such luck now that I'm back. He wakes 4-5 times and cries. :( SO frustrating!


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## Lauki

I'd love to join too! Just have to wait till Sophie is out of Wonderweek 19!


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## JellyBeann

LO woke once when he was staying at my mums...when he's home, it's like 4 times! Why can he not sleep almost through for us, what do you all think it is?


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## JellyBeann

I'm selling my book girls, got it on kindle now, so don't need it £6...it has a fold line on the front cover but ignore that lol. so £6 inc.pp fees and postage!


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## JellyBeann

it's the toddler edition by the way


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## vespersonicca

JellyBeann said:


> LO woke once when he was staying at my mums...when he's home, it's like 4 times! Why can he not sleep almost through for us, what do you all think it is?

My best guess is that it's related to trust. It's so common that a child will be a little angel all day with a babysitter, for example, and then completely freak out the second mommy comes back. The child knows that he/she can feel anyway and it's ok/safe with a parent. Children tend to be on better behavior elsewhere because they aren't sure how the caregiver will react. 

I ended up in the hospital on and off for 2 weeks and DS was amazing with daddy. He woke 1-2 and fell asleep very quickly. NOw he has back-slided a lot because he wakes up and needs to know I'm still there. He cries "mama" and won't settle until I hold him and he feels secure again. I hope he settles back into trusting that mommy isn't going back to the hospital anytime soon!


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## starsunshine

Aw vers that must have been aweful hope your better now. I like the way you describe why they can be lovely for others & naughty for us, it makes loads of sense to me.


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## kim051

that makes so much sence but my 10 months old screams as soon as I leave the room :(
Got to go in for minor op next tue and I hope he's ok with his daddy and without milk. he doesn't take a bottle but is it worth expressing a little to give it to him in a sippy cup?
I'm worried about leaving him more than anything else.....


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## qpaulina42

may I join? 
*current situation*: we bedshare and baby sleeps ~11 hours at night but wants to attach to boob about every hour, mostly for comfort sucking, I suspect. during the day we have three good naps most days of ~2 hours each as long as she falls asleep on boob and then stays on the pillow next to me or if she wakes up, then she falls asleep again on my chest and sleeps if I hold her
*ideal situation*: same amount of sleep but in a crib. as much as I LOVE sleeping next to her at night, we never meant to bedshare, we have a small bed, my hips are killing me from laying immobile on my sides, I worry about her not wanting to leave the bed when she gets bigger and I think it's affecting her naps in that she doesn't like sleeping without me. I would really like to teach her to self settle and self sooth again (she used to be better at it until we took into bed with us, foolish silly us...)
*My plan so far*: first, try to get her to not comfort suck but still let her sleep on the pillow next to me during naps. Then try the whole put her in the crib when sleepy thing for naps, then progress to doing the same for night time, maybe at first attaching the crib to the bed for a sort of co-sleeping arrangement, then separating it later? Anyone have a better plan/suggestions? 
*Problems:* it's damned cold at night. Right now I know she is warm because she sleeps next to me and with our blanket, but I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving her with a blanket in her crib. I'm considering a space heater, warmer sleep sacks... what temperature do you keep the room where LO sleeps in the winter?


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## qpaulina42

first attempt was total failure. She fell asleep so I tried transferring her to crib. she woke up and started crying. I tried to comfort her in crib, no luck, picked her up, she got all quiet and sleepy, put her down again, same result, pick up again, down again, now uncontrollable hysterics and no sleep in sight. so instead of a nap we spent an hour screaming. how on earth does one persevere!!!!!!!???????????

ETA: make that 2 hours...


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## vespersonicca

WOOOHOOOO! DS slept from 8:45pm-5:45am without waking!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:



kim051 said:


> that makes so much sence but my 10 months old screams as soon as I leave the room :(
> Got to go in for minor op next tue and I hope he's ok with his daddy and without milk. he doesn't take a bottle but is it worth expressing a little to give it to him in a sippy cup?
> I'm worried about leaving him more than anything else.....

I'd try expressing some milk. Maybe the taste and smell will help calm him down. My LO really took to carrying a used breast pad :haha: around for comfort. As I mentioned before also, I landed in the hospital for TWO WEEKS and was really worried how my little guy would handle being away from me at night like that. It always went way better than I expected. It's something in a baby's nature, he'll just say "oh, ok, it's just me and daddy right now" and get on with it. Hope it goes well! :hugs:



qpaulina42 said:


> may I join?
> *current situation*: we bedshare and baby sleeps ~11 hours at night but wants to attach to boob about every hour, mostly for comfort sucking, I suspect. during the day we have three good naps most days of ~2 hours each as long as she falls asleep on boob and then stays on the pillow next to me or if she wakes up, then she falls asleep again on my chest and sleeps if I hold her
> *ideal situation*: same amount of sleep but in a crib. as much as I LOVE sleeping next to her at night, we never meant to bedshare, we have a small bed, my hips are killing me from laying immobile on my sides, I worry about her not wanting to leave the bed when she gets bigger and I think it's affecting her naps in that she doesn't like sleeping without me. I would really like to teach her to self settle and self sooth again (she used to be better at it until we took into bed with us, foolish silly us...)
> *My plan so far*: first, try to get her to not comfort suck but still let her sleep on the pillow next to me during naps. Then try the whole put her in the crib when sleepy thing for naps, then progress to doing the same for night time, maybe at first attaching the crib to the bed for a sort of co-sleeping arrangement, then separating it later? Anyone have a better plan/suggestions?
> *Problems:* it's damned cold at night. Right now I know she is warm because she sleeps next to me and with our blanket, but I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving her with a blanket in her crib. I'm considering a space heater, warmer sleep sacks... what temperature do you keep the room where LO sleeps in the winter?

Welcome! We co-slept (not prevously planned) from birth until 10 months when my LO just started waking very frequently and kicking, nursing, rolling... I just couldn't sleep anymore! So we made a switch from co-sleeping to the crib beside our bed. I started by using Pantley's gentle removal technique (removing baby from nipple whie still awake when suckling slows, over and over until he fell accepted it and fell asleep) for a week or so before even trying to put LO anywhere else to sleep. We then spent about 3 months laying him down, picking him up when he cried for comfort, and laying him back down again. Slowly he got more self-settling once he realized we were there to stay and to hold him if he needed it. 

As for room temperature, our room is quite warm so we never needed our sleep sack but we had one. I've heard great things. They are safe for little ones since blankets can get tangled. We use long sleeved PJs with closed feet every night. A space heater would certainly warm the room but at least in our family, we find that breathing fresh cooler air while warm under the blankets/sleep sack, is more conducive to sleep. 



qpaulina42 said:


> first attempt was total failure. She fell asleep so I tried transferring her to crib. she woke up and started crying. I tried to comfort her in crib, no luck, picked her up, she got all quiet and sleepy, put her down again, same result, pick up again, down again, now uncontrollable hysterics and no sleep in sight. so instead of a nap we spent an hour screaming. how on earth does one persevere!!!!!!!???????????
> 
> ETA: make that 2 hours...

Sorry to hear your first attempt was so hard! :hugs: It really takes a lot of time to avoid crying it out. In the beginning for us we just always comforted/picked LO up when he cried until we got better at distinguishing his different sounds. At some point he did cry a little but that was mostly because we were sure it was his "I'm complaining about this" cry, not "I'm scared" or "don't leave me here alone!" cry. It does get easier if you are consistent. She needs to know that this is the new routine that she can expect and rely on. As for transferring here to the crib, it was explained to me by a sleep specialist like this. How would you feel if you dosed off on the couch and woke up in the garage?! You would probably be bewildered and even a little scared. That is what babies experience also. They cry until the state of things before they went to sleep is returned. This is also why if baby falls asleep with a nipple in her mouth, that is what she wants when she wakes again. This is also where the beauty lies in teaching LO to fall asleep on her own. She will wake up, remember she fell asleep in her crib and then go back to sleep! Hope that helps.


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## qpaulina42

thank you for the encouragement. today has been a tad better so far. first nap of the day, she was sleepy (yawning, rubbing her eyes) so I fed her, then carried her around a little bit, swaddled her (haven't done this in ages as she is so huge none of my swaddle blankets fit her anymore, have to use a sheet!) put her in the crib, shuuuushed, and rocked the crib and unbelievably after about 15 minutes of that she is asleep. Now - what do I do when she wakes up at the end of this sleep cycle, realizes she is not with mommy, and starts crying? do I pick her up? do I repeat shusshing? might that be the end of the nap? I know she can nap for 2 hours at a time, but in the past the best that I could get in the cot was 30-40 minutes (1 sleep cycle, I think). 
Also, was reading something by the baby whisperer (I don't much agree with her philosophy of not looking at baby, haven't read the book yet though, perhaps I'm just prejudiced) and she says I think that picking up and putting down is too stimulating for babies before 4 months. Anyone find this to be the case? 
Thanks again for support. Hoping against hope that today won't be like yesterday.


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## qpaulina42

so first nap lasted 40 minutes. Now she is down for second nap, in the crib again (yeah!) let's see for how long... I find that I miss her :( and our cuddle time :( but I guess that means I spend better quality time with her when awake :)


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## qpaulina42

hmm 2nd nap exactly 40 minutes again.... and she seems displeased and still sleepy. I'm trying to resettle her. anyone else having this problem?

eta:no luck and sleepy child... what's more important - consistency or sufficient sleep?


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## vespersonicca

qpaulina42 said:


> hmm 2nd nap exactly 40 minutes again.... and she seems displeased and still sleepy. I'm trying to resettle her. anyone else having this problem?

Hi! Glad you're persevering and trying to find a solution that works for you. Unfortunately I have no advice for you about your particular situation. They recommend waiting to do sleeping training until after 6 months here so I don't know what I'd do with a 3 month old. I think consistency is key with anything you decide so it can be predictable. Lots of response and contact/cuddles when necessary as she is so young and doesn't understand yet. :flower:


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## vespersonicca

^^^to clarify what I said, since I've just realized you're talking about naps (duh!), just keep at it and she'll catch on and adjust. The "sleep training" is more about getting a baby to learn to sleep through the night. That's why they suggest 6 months at earliest. A baby no longer then needs the nutrition from milk in the night so they are more physically ready to adjust. They are also more emotional capable.


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## qpaulina42

thanks! the last three hours have been... unpleasant. she is cranky, probably overtired, can't fall back asleep. fighting the swaddle like mad when I try it. I think sleep is going to win out for the rest of the day, we need one good nap at this point. Argh. she is crying. punching and scratching me when I hold her.


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## qpaulina42

I have some friends in Helsinki, btw. I fondly remember my trips to Suomi :)


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## vespersonicca

qpaulina42 said:


> I have some friends in Helsinki, btw. I fondly remember my trips to Suomi :)

Wow small world huh. I'm from California but have been living here for the past 5 years, most of my grown-up life, so I'm more like a Finn in parenting stuff as I know nothing else.


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## qpaulina42

there is a no cry nap solution book! did you know that? getting it pronto


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## starsunshine

Qpaulina, it think before they are 6months then all u can do is put them down to fall asleep by themselves. U could also try establishing a pre betime ritual to help them know its time to sleep. 

Sorry I've been away for ages again! Silly work! Leo's now sleeping 7-5-7 so I'm a happy lady. Not sure how to tackle the time change next week though. What are you all going to be doing? Not sure I can cope with waking at 4!


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## vespersonicca

starsunshine said:


> Not sure how to tackle the time change next week though. What are you all going to be doing? Not sure I can cope with waking at 4!

SHOOT! :shrug: I forgot about that!!!! NO CLUE! 

We had another good night last night. Ash slept from 830pm-445am in his crib and then woke up and wanted to sleep next to me. He was asleep by 5am and woke up a little after 6am.


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## qpaulina42

starsunshine said:


> Qpaulina, it think before they are 6months then all u can do is put them down to fall asleep by themselves.

that's all I'd like to accomplish at this point honestly. this morning's nap = epic fail. I tried carrying/rocking/shushhing her to a sleepy state. she wasn't having any of it, started screaming bloody murder at me. back on the boob for this nap. darn darn darn.


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## vespersonicca

Well no one has been here in ages. I'm hoping that this means everyone is sleeping. DS is now in his own room. I put him down in his crib with a water bottle and his little books (comfort objects) and say goodnight. I go then and he is sleeping within 10 min, usually 5min. He still gets up early, usually between 6am-7am but is sleeping through. :)


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## JellyBeann

Anyone wanner buy my copy (toddler edition) for £6 plus fees


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## Maggs

I've just stumbled across this and considering buying the book. Our two main issues at the moment are the 2 hrs+ it takes to get him to sleep in his cot at night and breaking the cycle of nursing to sleep and being held for daytime naps. Once he is asleep, he wakes to feed at 5/6ish then goes back to sleep until 8ish. For that feed I co-sleep (we were co-sleeping from about 8 weeks-3 1/2 months. 

We've been trying our take on pick up/put down method and it seemed to work okay the first couple of weeks. He would take maybe 4/5 pick ups and a couple of shush's. Now the last week, it has taken 2 hrs+ of the same techniques/routine. 

I wonder if A) the co-sleeping from early morning feed on is confusing him. I really don't mind this and am happy to continue as long as it doesn't confuse things. And B) the nursing/being held for daytime naps.

Also he generally has 3 naps through the day. How long should there between last nap and bedtime? Usually between haps he goes roughly 2 hrs. Wonder if I should extend last nap-bedtime to more like 3 hrs. But only fault there is sometimes he's too tired to properly nurse and keeps waking up still hungry once he's down.


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## vespersonicca

Hi Maggs :) I highly suggest you get the book. Check your local library. I still nurse my son to sleep sometimes and he's nearly 1.5yr already. He knows how to fall asleep without too though. We use Pantley's gentle removal technique to help him learn. I'd nurse him to sleep in the days still and practice putting him down once he's sleeping. He may wake up and you have to start over but it may be too much to try doing something in the night and try to change too much in the day. We also co-slept from birth until 10mo. DS learned to fall asleep without the nipple in his mouth before I moved him. I do recall that we had to stay in the room with him with my hand on his back for a long time. The important thing is consistency. Your son may just now be protesting and realizing that you plan to continue this routine that he is less than happy with so keep doing what you feel is right and comforting him when he seems to panic.


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## Maggs

Should I make sure we have nights down pat before attempting naps too? Or should I do it all in one go as to not confuse him?

And I wonder now too where we're around 4 month sleep regression/ww19 if that's why the issues and things will improve after we get by this?


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## vespersonicca

At least in our family we decided to try to focus on one thing at a time. For us it was the night time stuff. We figured that the naps would sort themselves out as we made progress. To some extend it did too although I often still stay in the room until DS is sleeping. He seems to protest more about nap time than night sleep. He is just tired and ready to sleep by the evening but he still wants to play in the day, even if he is exhausted!


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## Maggs

My lo does the same. I can either hold him and he'll have a proper nap or put him down and he's awake in mins. I'm hoping once he learns to self settle at night, it will gradually change the daytimes as well.


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## berniegroves

Hi, we have just bought this book and plan to start using it this week. 
Our problem is also that it takes hours to settle our daughter to sleep at night! Once she is down she will sleepfor at least 7 hours (and will self-settle during that time) but it just takes so long to get to that point! We have to put her down asleep as if we ever put her down awake she will just scream and scream! 
For naps she sleeps on me, and in the last two weeks she has started taking one nap in the pushchair (huge progress!) but if she falls asleep on me I can't put her down without her screaming! 
It is starting to get to me as all the responsibility for her sleep lies on me as my husband can't seem to find a way to get her to sleep! 
And as we are putting her (or trying to) to bed early I feel like I spend all my time in our bedroom feeding or rocking her. 
I love my baby more than anything, but I am on the edge.


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## Maggs

berniegroves said:


> Hi, we have just bought this book and plan to start using it this week.
> Our problem is also that it takes hours to settle our daughter to sleep at night! Once she is down she will sleepfor at least 7 hours (and will self-settle during that time) but it just takes so long to get to that point! We have to put her down asleep as if we ever put her down awake she will just scream and scream!
> For naps she sleeps on me, and in the last two weeks she has started taking one nap in the pushchair (huge progress!) but if she falls asleep on me I can't put her down without her screaming!
> It is starting to get to me as all the responsibility for her sleep lies on me as my husband can't seem to find a way to get her to sleep!
> And as we are putting her (or trying to) to bed early I feel like I spend all my time in our bedroom feeding or rocking her.
> I love my baby more than anything, but I am on the edge.

Sounds exactly like my lo!! It hasn't taken hours to get him down at night the last couple of nights but last night he was awake at 145, 4, 6 and finally fell back to sleep at 815 for an hour. I am just shattered today!


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## vespersonicca

Aww, I guess a new group is starting. Ge the book Maggs and you guys can support each other!


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