# How many of you had a completely natural birth?



## hot tea

How many of you had a completely natural birth with no interventions at all? I mean no induction, no episiotamy, no drugs whatsoever INCLUDING gas and air?


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## LadyHutch

I have and I much prefer the induction/epidural route.


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## hot tea

Why?


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## LadyHutch

It was just better. I was able to laugh, enjoy my husband and mom being there, i wasn't in pain. We knew when to expect the baby, and we were more prepared. It was just more relaxing and enjoyable.

My first happened very quickly, was very painful and I didn't enjoy it at all. my second, with the induction/epidural, it was all around a much smoother, easier, more enjoyable experience.


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## Ruby x

i did, water birth & just gas and air x


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## hot tea

Ruby x said:


> i did, water birth & just gas and air x

Gas and air counts as a form on intervention. I should specify NO drugs at all. :thumbup:


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## Neateye

Water birth here... A lil gas n air... In whole my labour lasted 6hrs of which 19 mins to push lo out.
Unfortunetly my lo had his hand to the side of his face, so wheb his head came out i tore - 3rd degree. I didnt feel it thou.
All in all i feel i had a wonderful experience :). Mw's i could thank enough.
At the time thou i felt like i failed... Completely drug free birth but i had to have a spinal for getting stitched up.
Good luck hun, i say keep an open mind, ur body will tell u if u need meds. x

edit: dont count me - guess i had drugs... Gas n air!!! 
X


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## whistle

Had about the furthest away from intervention free you could have. I was put under in the end, gave birth with no OH, no mum, didn't see my bubbas for several hours. I wanted a drug free birth, but you never know what will happen till it happens.


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## Fabby

Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.


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## Ju_bubbs

Me, twice.. and will be a 3rd time if all goes to plan!


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## hot tea

Fabby said:


> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.

If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.


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## Smithsmith

I take my hat off to anyone who goes completely drug free! My labour was 18 hours and I had just gas and air. and do you know what...it was AGONY! Next time I want them to knock me out about a fortnight before the baby arrives :rofl:

In all honesty though I was dead proud I did it with only gas and air but I believe every persons body and labour is different and will be totally open minded next time round and if I need something more then so be it!


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## skydragonfly

I have never had any pain relief at all for any of my 5 births. 3 were natural and 2 were induced. All were too quick for pain relief. Had they been likely to have gone on for a long while I would have wanted every pain relief going.


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## hot tea

Ju_bubbs said:


> Me, twice.. and will be a 3rd time if all goes to plan!

Did you have a home birth with both your children, and will you again?


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## My_First

Does water, paracetamol, tens machine, massage, aromatherapy, hypno birthing count as intervention?


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## hot tea

My_First said:


> Does water, paracetamol, tens machine, massage, aromatherapy, hypno birthing count as intervention?

I wouldn't say so. Except the paracetamol, but that hardly counts as anything at all. :haha: aromatherapy sounds lovely, I need to look into that for my birth...


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## Ju_bubbs

hot tea said:


> Ju_bubbs said:
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> Me, twice.. and will be a 3rd time if all goes to plan!
> 
> Did you have a home birth with both your children, and will you again?Click to expand...

The first med free labour was in hospital, the 2nd was at home, and this one will hopefully be at home too!


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## Harleyy

Meee!!!


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## hot tea

Ju_bubbs said:


> hot tea said:
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> Ju_bubbs said:
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> Me, twice.. and will be a 3rd time if all goes to plan!
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> Did you have a home birth with both your children, and will you again?Click to expand...
> 
> The first med free labour was in hospital, the 2nd was at home, and this one will hopefully be at home too!Click to expand...

Fantastic! Sounds about how I am going. Had my first naturally in hospital, and this one will be a home birth.


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## LoraLoo

hot tea said:


> My_First said:
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> Does water, paracetamol, tens machine, massage, aromatherapy, hypno birthing count as intervention?
> 
> I wouldn't say so. Except the paracetamol, but that hardly counts as anything at all. :haha: aromatherapy sounds lovely, I need to look into that for my birth...Click to expand...

Id count paracetamol, water and tens maschine all as pain relief...they arent any different to gas and air imo :shrug:


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## hot tea

LoraLoo said:


> hot tea said:
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> My_First said:
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> Does water, paracetamol, tens machine, massage, aromatherapy, hypno birthing count as intervention?
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> I wouldn't say so. Except the paracetamol, but that hardly counts as anything at all. :haha: aromatherapy sounds lovely, I need to look into that for my birth...Click to expand...
> 
> Id count paracetamol, water and tens maschine all as pain relief...they arent any different to gas and air imo :shrug:Click to expand...

Being in a birth pool is completely natural! That isn't a drug or an intervention. As for a tens machine... i donT know what that is.


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## EllaAndLyla

Water Birth!! :D 
Does it count if I had a few puffs of gas and air just while i was being..examined!? Apart from that was all natural and in water. I loved it personally and sometimes wish that I didnt have the gas and air and just went all natural, but i just couldn't take the examinations, think its because its not a natural pain whereas birth was and my body just dealt with it! x


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## Ju_bubbs

hot tea said:


> Ju_bubbs said:
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> hot tea said:
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> Ju_bubbs said:
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> Me, twice.. and will be a 3rd time if all goes to plan!
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> Did you have a home birth with both your children, and will you again?Click to expand...
> 
> The first med free labour was in hospital, the 2nd was at home, and this one will hopefully be at home too!Click to expand...
> 
> Fantastic! Sounds about how I am going. Had my first naturally in hospital, and this one will be a home birth.Click to expand...

I did have 2 more in hospital with gas and air before I realised how much better med free was! Once I went med free, I was gutted I didnt do it the first 2 times! The gas made me feel so out of it, I didn't even know what was going on half the time, as tho i was drifting in and out of consciousness(sp?)
And the effects didn't wear off unti an hour ot 2 after birth.. for me or the babies! :(


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## LoraLoo

hot tea said:


> LoraLoo said:
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> hot tea said:
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> My_First said:
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> Does water, paracetamol, tens machine, massage, aromatherapy, hypno birthing count as intervention?
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> I wouldn't say so. Except the paracetamol, but that hardly counts as anything at all. :haha: aromatherapy sounds lovely, I need to look into that for my birth...Click to expand...
> 
> Id count paracetamol, water and tens maschine all as pain relief...they arent any different to gas and air imo :shrug:Click to expand...
> 
> Being in a birth pool is completely natural! That isn't a drug or an intervention. As for a tens machine... i donT know what that is.Click to expand...

But you use it to relieve the pain, so I'd still count it as pain relief, as i say jmo :thumbup:


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## hot tea

Water is a natural pain relief. Like walking during labour can be pain relief. Water birth is totally natural, just like walking lol...... I am not sold on that.


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## EllaAndLyla

LoraLoo said:


> hot tea said:
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> My_First said:
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> Does water, paracetamol, tens machine, massage, aromatherapy, hypno birthing count as intervention?
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> I wouldn't say so. Except the paracetamol, but that hardly counts as anything at all. :haha: aromatherapy sounds lovely, I need to look into that for my birth...Click to expand...
> 
> Id count paracetamol, water and tens maschine all as pain relief...they arent any different to gas and air imo :shrug:Click to expand...

Id say water is more of a way to get you to relax, like hypnotherapy. I felt exactly the same amount of pain in the water than i did out of the water however when i was in the water i felt more comfortable and more relaxed to when i was out the water. x


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## My_First

Okay I too would say, in my opinion, that water is an intervention. We, as humans, are not meant to give birth in water, or we would lay eggs or have gills...again imho


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## Rosie123

I had a natural birth, no gas and air, drugs or anything! I labored on my own in a bed on the ward in silence!! (it's a long story!). Looking back at the birth it was an amazing experience that would like to repeat if I'm lucky enough to have another child! :thumbup:


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## Cattia

I had a water birth with my second, I had a couple of puffs of gas and air only to realise I was too farprogressed for it to make a blind bit of difference so I chucked it aside. My first birth was very different, epidural, episiotomy etc but it was a back to back labour so waaaay more painful! My only priority both times was to have a healthy baby, I wasn't fixed on having no pain relief but a normal labour wad so much easier than back to back that it just turned out that way. I have to say I found my intervention free labour a totally incredible experience.


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## BattyNora

I don"t know if you would class me as one at all, although I tend to.

During labour I used TENs, a bath and a paracetemol...my early labour was 2.5 days, established 4 hours and 20 mins pushing. 

However my third stage labour was managed, ending in retained placenta. In fact after birthing with very little I actually ended up having gas and air when the midwife tried to remove it manually where the cord snapped, they tried for 50 mins to give me a spinal epidural and eventually was knocked out in theatre with a general. 

Bow, technically that's still labour....so pre-birth yes, after birth no. In my mind anyway, I'm sure others have different ideas!

And to be honest, I don't care how people wish to label my birth. I'm bloody proud of myself, and anyone who has a child should be irrelevant of how it happened

Edit; I have to admit I wouldn't class water/bath as pain relief...otherwise surely walking, deep breathing or anything I did to get through the pain is an intervention...IMO. TENS, maybe and paracetamol definitely!


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## Ju_bubbs

IMO, baby has spent 9 months lying in a sac of water, so what could possibly be more natural for LO than being born into water? :shrug:


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## Maman

tens is a machine that puts electrical currents on to your skin which blocks pain receptors. id class it as a pain relief. Paracetamol is also. 

i think its quite interesting to see the numbers on this one. theres more of us who have had pain relief and intervention than who havent.


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## My_First

Its interesting, isnt it, how definitions of natural are so subjective. I would count having a vaginal birth as a natural birth, whether drugs are involved or not. Many others would disagree, and many other will just say having a baby, is natural, whichever way you look at it. I am not arguing with anyone, and I dont necessarily count those I mentioned as 'un natural', just its very different from person to person...


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## Tasha

Me, twice. My first was an induction, 27 hours of established labour and an epidural which I HATED, so I promised myself I would never do that again. So my second I refused drugs, just walked until 10cm I started shouting at the mw to give me drugs :haha: Third was an induction (she had grown her wings) but again no drugs (bar a paracetamol 12 minutes before she was born) despite them trying to force me to have loads, fourth was induction which ended in section so lots of medical intervention, fifth was natural and again no pain killers just walking, and head butting my husbands chest :wacko::haha:


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## LoraLoo

I think it does come down to the individual as what you class as completely natural. I had gas and air....so i dont class mine as completely natural because i used something to help with the pain. As i say, id count paracetamol, gas and air, water and tens machine all as a way of managing the pain. For me, completely natural would be as Rosie123 describes. Interesting to see everyone elses different opinions though :flower:


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## Ju_bubbs

My_First said:


> Its interesting, isnt it, how definitions of natural are so subjective. I would count having a vaginal birth as a natural birth, whether drugs are involved or not. Many others would disagree, and many other will just say having a baby, is natural, whichever way you look at it. I am not arguing with anyone, and I dont necessarily count those I mentioned as 'un natural', just its very different from person to person...

This sums it up exactly!! Personally I class natural as no drugs, no medical aid etc.. but, that doesn't mean that someone else, like you can't class their birth with G&A or whatever as natural! It all depends on what that induvidual person feels!


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## hivechild

I was drug free other than 2 paracetamol about 15 mins into labor. I thought it was just my usual back pain and Braxton hicks contractions even though from the beginning my contractions were 3-5 mins apart and a minute in length!

The monkey was born 6 1/2 hours later and I would definitely do it again without any drugs.


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## EllaAndLyla

Ju_bubbs said:


> My_First said:
> 
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> Its interesting, isnt it, how definitions of natural are so subjective. I would count having a vaginal birth as a natural birth, whether drugs are involved or not. Many others would disagree, and many other will just say having a baby, is natural, whichever way you look at it. I am not arguing with anyone, and I dont necessarily count those I mentioned as 'un natural', just its very different from person to person...
> 
> This sums it up exactly!! Personally I class natural as no drugs, no medical aid etc.. but, that doesn't mean that someone else, like you can't class their birth with G&A or whatever as natural! It all depends on what that induvidual person feels!Click to expand...

And every labour is sooo difference too, same as pain tolerance. Like I was in labour 37 hours established and went med free (apart from examinations, I still class it as all natural) whereas another person could have a 6-7 hour established labour and need an epidural and still class it as natural. Each to their own, we should all be proud either way :)


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## pinklizzy

I feel that I had as natural a birth as possible for a breech delivery, I did have an episiotomy and a couple of puffs on the gas and air though.


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## Ju_bubbs

EllaAndLyla said:


> Ju_bubbs said:
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> My_First said:
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> Its interesting, isnt it, how definitions of natural are so subjective. I would count having a vaginal birth as a natural birth, whether drugs are involved or not. Many others would disagree, and many other will just say having a baby, is natural, whichever way you look at it. I am not arguing with anyone, and I dont necessarily count those I mentioned as 'un natural', just its very different from person to person...
> 
> This sums it up exactly!! Personally I class natural as no drugs, no medical aid etc.. but, that doesn't mean that someone else, like you can't class their birth with G&A or whatever as natural! It all depends on what that induvidual person feels!Click to expand...
> 
> And every labour is sooo difference too, same as pain tolerance. Like I was in labour 37 hours established and went med free (apart from examinations, I still class it as all natural) whereas another person could have a 6-7 hour established labour and need an epidural and still class it as natural. Each to their own, we should all be proud either way :)Click to expand...

I totally cheat.. my last 2 labours were 25 and 15 mins from start to finish so no drugs really isn't that big a deal!! :haha:


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## TennisGal

Lizzie was induction with epidural, episiotomy and ventouse. A very long and painful labour...Ally was completely natural. I had a half hearted try of gas and air-I half breathed in-but it made me feel odd, so I threw it aside!

It was easier both from getting Ally straight onto bfing and recovery for me going natural, but tbh, all that matters is healthy baby and healthy mummy....and we are all superstars for giving birth, however we do it!


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## EllaAndLyla

Ju_bubbs said:


> EllaAndLyla said:
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> Ju_bubbs said:
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> My_First said:
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> Its interesting, isnt it, how definitions of natural are so subjective. I would count having a vaginal birth as a natural birth, whether drugs are involved or not. Many others would disagree, and many other will just say having a baby, is natural, whichever way you look at it. I am not arguing with anyone, and I dont necessarily count those I mentioned as 'un natural', just its very different from person to person...
> 
> This sums it up exactly!! Personally I class natural as no drugs, no medical aid etc.. but, that doesn't mean that someone else, like you can't class their birth with G&A or whatever as natural! It all depends on what that induvidual person feels!Click to expand...
> 
> And every labour is sooo difference too, same as pain tolerance. Like I was in labour 37 hours established and went med free (apart from examinations, I still class it as all natural) whereas another person could have a 6-7 hour established labour and need an epidural and still class it as natural. Each to their own, we should all be proud either way :)Click to expand...
> 
> I totally cheat.. my last 2 labours were 25 and 15 mins from start to finish so no drugs really isn't that big a deal!! :haha:Click to expand...

I can only dream of a 15 minute labour!! i was sooo tired after 37 hours, having a water birth is what kept me awake haha! x


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## My_First

See I could then then say I had as natural birth as possible, my waters broke earley, I got contractions 6 hours later, and lo head got stuck. There was no other option but to come out of the sun roof, as I had been in labour for three days and not progressing beyond half a centimetre. BUT it was as natural as the circumstances allowed. (I caveat that I dont believe I had a natural birth at all, but just to be devils advocate)..:flower:


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## Ju_bubbs

EllaAndLyla said:


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> My_First said:
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> Its interesting, isnt it, how definitions of natural are so subjective. I would count having a vaginal birth as a natural birth, whether drugs are involved or not. Many others would disagree, and many other will just say having a baby, is natural, whichever way you look at it. I am not arguing with anyone, and I dont necessarily count those I mentioned as 'un natural', just its very different from person to person...
> 
> This sums it up exactly!! Personally I class natural as no drugs, no medical aid etc.. but, that doesn't mean that someone else, like you can't class their birth with G&A or whatever as natural! It all depends on what that induvidual person feels!Click to expand...
> 
> And every labour is sooo difference too, same as pain tolerance. Like I was in labour 37 hours established and went med free (apart from examinations, I still class it as all natural) whereas another person could have a 6-7 hour established labour and need an epidural and still class it as natural. Each to their own, we should all be proud either way :)Click to expand...
> 
> I totally cheat.. my last 2 labours were 25 and 15 mins from start to finish so no drugs really isn't that big a deal!! :haha:Click to expand...
> 
> I can only dream of a 15 minute labour!! i was sooo tired after 37 hours, having a water birth is what kept me awake haha! xClick to expand...

My longest labour was my 1st at 5 hours.. I honestly do not know how yo ladies who have looong labours manage to do it with drugs even, let alone without!!! :rofl:


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## Tasha

EllaAndLyla said:


> I can only dream of a 15 minute labour!! i was sooo tired after 37 hours, having a water birth is what kept me awake haha! x

It can be so different 1st to 2nd hun, my first was 27 hours established, my 2nd was 1hr 30 mins from first contraction to delivery, 3rd 45 minutes start to finish, 4th 0-6cm's in an induction in an hour, 5th established labour was less than 10 minutes. So you might get that labour one day


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## special_kala

My girls came out of my vagina so yea I had a natural birth. It was still natural even though with river I had a epi and willow gas and air.

Pain relief has been used probably since we started giving birth whether that be herbs, oils, epdurals or just a nice think stick to bite down on.


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## Cattia

TennisGal said:


> Lizzie was induction with epidural, eKpisiotomy and ventouse. A very long and painful labour...Ally was completely natural. I had a half hearted try of gas and air-I half breathed in-but it made me feel odd, so I threw it aside!
> 
> It was easier both from getting Ally straight onto bfing and recovery or me going natural, but tbh, all that matters is healthy baby and healthy mummy....and we are all superstars for giving birth, however we do it!

I haven't even heard Ally's birth story TG but sounds like it was similar to George. I didn't believe everyone who told me second time round would be so much easier but it certainly was!


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## lindseymw

I had G&A when the Doc was taking LO's blood sample (involved 12 people looking up a place where I didn't want them looking, cutting LO's head & drawing blood), ditched the G&A after. I then had Meptid as I'd taken 12 hours to get to 4cm, expecting another 12 hours but 10mins later I had Jacob in my arms. Meptid hadn't had chance to kick in!


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## sapphire1

I hope that there aren't mums on here that get offended by this thread. Many people don't choose the type of birth they have, end up needing drugs, or having a c-section if things don't go to plan, then get made to feel a failure by people harping on about how they did it naturally. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is our babies being born safe and healthy, not if we managed to do it without drugs or intervention.

BTW, if you're wondering - yes I did have a natural birth. I'm not counting the couple of puffs of poxy G&A that I tossed aside after 2 minutes. I also spent nearly 5 hours pushing, but IMO that doesn't entitle me to a badge of honour. I was just extremely lucky. Of course it's wonderful if you manage to do it 'naturally', and you should be proud, but I don't want people to feel like failures because of something that's way beyond their control...


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## aliss

I wish I could have but I developed a massive infection from untreated leaking waters for a week! Lesson learned!


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## Ju_bubbs

sapphire1 said:


> I hope that there aren't mums on here that get offended by this thread. Many people don't choose the type of birth they have, end up needing drugs, or having a c-section if things don't go to plan, then get made to feel a failure by people harping on about how they did it naturally. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is our babies being born safe and healthy, not if we managed to do it without drugs or intervention.
> 
> BTW, if you're wondering - yes I did have a natural birth. I'm not counting the couple of puffs of poxy G&A that I tossed aside after 2 minutes. I also spent nearly 5 hours pushing, but IMO that doesn't entitle me to a badge of honour. I was just extremely lucky. Of course it's wonderful if you manage to do it 'naturally', and you should be proud, but I don't want people to feel like failures because of something that's way beyond their control...

That can be said about many, many things.. not just labour! I REALLY wanted to breast feed, but only managed it for 5 weeks and felt a complete failure taht my milk wasn't satisfying my baby... does that mean that no one should have breast feeding tickers, or ever mention how proud they are of breastfeeding for xx amount of months, incase I, and others like me get offended? :shrug:

(BTW, I'm not offended by breasfeeding tickers etc..)


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## hot tea

Not sure why anyone would be offended by this thread. I does appear that very very few have had what I consider a natural birth with zero interventions. 

Being in water is a way to cope with contractions, and yes it has been around for a very, very, very long time! Just as moaning helps, walking helps, kicking your legs sometimes help with pain. That is not a medical intervention like gas and air, I am very surprised it is even being compared to such!!

I was just curious as to how many people actually do it drug free. This really shouldnt be deemed controversial.


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## sapphire1

I think I clumsily worded the post, upset would be a better word than offend. Many people are upset about, and highly sensitive of their labour experience, you only have to go into the postnatal section to see that. It's just that I've seen threads like this turn nasty before...


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## Fabby

hot tea said:


> Fabby said:
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> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...

I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko: 
Why does it matter?
I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!

Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't have a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you may want or dream. 

I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!


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## Ju_bubbs

sapphire1 said:


> I think I clumsily worded the post, upset would be a better word than offend. Many people are upset about, and highly sensitive of their labour experience, you only have to go into the postnatal section to see that. It's just that I've seen threads like this turn nasty before...

I didn't know there was a post natal section tbh! lol. I'm sure the OP didn't mean to upset anyone by posting it, we all know not everyones labours go to plan, and no one is saying that un-natural is anymore amazing than natural! IMO, whether you have no meds, water, tens, G&A, epi, or even a section... you have still done the most wonderful thing in the world, and given birth!

I'm quite sure no one means to upset anyone by talking about their 'natural' births, but I for one, would be a little upset if I was expected never to mention it, just incase someone who's labour didnt go to plan read it! :flower:


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## hot tea

Fabby said:


> hot tea said:
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> Fabby said:
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> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
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> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...

Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.

It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!

I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug: i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs. :shrug: and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them.


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## bigbetty

I was induced because I was 12 days overdue - nothing I could do about that and I wasn't going to refuse it because don't believe that would have been in the best interest of my baby. I had pethedine but found it useless and had gas and air - which looking back I could have done without. 

So no I didn't have a completely natural birth but if I have another, and nothing goes wrong, then I know I could do it drug and intervention free.

I went into the delivery suite with a completely open mind. I knew I didn't want an epidural if I could help it but would have had one if needed - thankfully I didn't. 

At the end of the day no matter what you want to happen, you just can't plan for every eventuality.

Fingers crossed you get the birth experience you want but at the end of the day que sera sera - what will be, will be!


----------



## Cattia

If this post was asking how many people had an epidural though, it wouldn't risk upsetting people, it would just be seen as a question (which is what I think the OP was). I can see why you would think that some people might get upset thinking that they didn't have a natural birth, and I think often we put this pressure on ourselves, which is a shame, we all have our ideals but IMO what really matters is that we have a safe labour and a healthy baby :flower:


----------



## Fabby

Yeah agree with you ju_bubbs about not been able talk about it, of course you can share your experience :flower: but the op has said how she thinks its important to some people to have a natural birth..... this s what I'm finding hard to understand...... Surely there's nothing more important than having your baby in your arms safe and sound and not matter how they got there


----------



## aliss

I really don't see the harm in asking. I had a variety of horrible interventions that made my son's birth the worst day of my life, I'm pretty sensitive to it, but I don't see what's wrong with her asking about those who had 100% natural (whatever that may be;)) and wanting to hear about it. I wish I could respond "yes" to this thread but I can't, but it still makes me warm & gooey inside (LOL) to see that some women achieved what I didn't get.

I kind of feel like the girl with the broken ankle watching the other marathoners cross the finish line, iykwim? Sure, it sucks to not be a part of it, but I am very happy for those who made it.


----------



## tristansmum

i consider a natural birth to be a vaginal birth. a drug free birth is another thing all together. most medical literature phrases it like this too. But its entirely up to each of us to define our birth... thats if we even want to define it and give a name to it. 

I think that people do get upset by post like this. not blaming the OP but lets face it anyone who has been on this site for a while knows how these posts tend to go. someone will say something.. perhaps word it badly and another person takes offense and it goes on until perhaps the orginal question is lost. our births are an emotional topic so its only natural that our responses are filled with emotions too. 

I did not have a natural birth nor a pain free birth. It was my intension to have a waterbirth in a birthing centre with minimal drugs.. perhaps just G&A (with i'd still count as natural). However i developed obstetric cholestasis and had to be induced, had pethadine as too exhausted from being awake so long to cope with the pain, pushed for 2 hours, taken to theatre, spinal block, failed forceps attempt and final emergency c section. So not exactly natural. It has taken me a long time to come to terms with my son's birth. Am i a little envious of you ladies who describe your births as wonderful experiences and you managed with no pain relief?... well yes. i'm only human after all and i suppose when you read that someone had this birth its hard on you. you feel your body failed you, why couldn't mine be like that. BUT i've come to realise that (for me) all that matters is that my son is healthy and so am i.


----------



## hot tea

Fabby said:


> Yeah agree with you ju_bubbs about not been able talk about it, of course you can share your experience :flower: but the op has said how she thinks its important to some people to have a natural birth..... this s what I'm finding hard to understand...... Surely there's nothing more important than having your baby in your send safe and sound and not matter how they got there

Well of course it is important!! Having expectations for their labors is soooo natural in itself. Planning ahead, wanting something, working towards it... I see absolutely no harm?? That can be said for those planning a csection or for an epidural.


----------



## hivechild

Laboring and birth is an amazing and empowering experience for many women, but it isn't the most empowering for women, period, and for some women, it is the exact opposite, and not just because of drugs or intervention. It is a lot more complicated and there are so many factors that prevent such a black and white perspective on birthing.


----------



## Ju_bubbs

To OP, maybe you should PM one of the mods and ask them to move this to the home and natural birthing section?


----------



## aliss

hivechild said:


> Laboring and birth is an amazing and empowering experience for many women, but it isn't the most empowering for women, period, and for some women, it is the exact opposite, and not just because of drugs or intervention. It is a lot more complicated and there are so many factors that prevent such a black and white perspective on birthing.

I agree, for me it was the most dis-empowering (?) experience of my life, a massive violation of just... everything! So I'm glad to see that some women had positive experiences (whether completely drug-free or high as a kite!)


----------



## hot tea

hivechild said:


> Laboring and birth is an amazing and empowering experience for many women, but it isn't the most empowering for women, period, and for some women, it is the exact opposite, and not just because of drugs or intervention. It is a lot more complicated and there are so many factors that prevent such a black and white perspective on birthing.

Perhaps you are right. This is just my own experience with my son. I feel I would not come out quite as empowered if it hadn't been an intervention and drug free birth. :flower: 

This thread was honestly never meant to pass judgement, I was just curious to see.


----------



## hot tea

Ju_bubbs said:


> To OP, maybe you should PM one of the mods and ask them to move this to the home and natural birthing section?

Will do!


----------



## bigbetty

Fabby said:


> Yeah agree with you ju_bubbs about not been able talk about it, of course you can share your experience :flower: but the op has said how she thinks its important to some people to have a natural birth..... this s what I'm finding hard to understand...... Surely there's nothing more important than having your baby in your send safe and sound and not matter how they got there

I can understand where she is coming from. I wanted as little intervention as possible and definitely not an epidural if could be helped.

But I went into the delivery suite with an open mind and made my decisions as I went along.

Hopefully if I have another I will be able to do it drug and intervention free, but I wouldn't put my baby at risk to do that and I'm sure none of the other ladies would either.


----------



## Tasha

Fabby said:


> Yeah agree with you ju_bubbs about not been able talk about it, of course you can share your experience :flower: but the op has said how she thinks its important to some people to have a natural birth..... this s what I'm finding hard to understand...... Surely there's nothing more important than having your baby in your send safe and sound and not matter how they got there

I have been through probably the worst thing possible to happen to a Mummy, twice (my baby girls grew their wings inside their tummy). I have also had an emergency section due to the distress one of my other girls was in. So I of course think/know that the most important thing is to get baby out safely and make sure mum is safe too, however it doesnt stop other things being important to me as well, for ME it is important to have a natural birth because I hated the effect the drugs had on me, I hate interventions because my two girls died due to medical negligence that means I dont trust doctors and so for me the most positive experience is one without drugs and without intervention, but if I need either I would within a blink of an eye. 

What is important to the mother, is not a one or the other situation, both can be but I have no doubt every woman here would put baby and her own safety way before having a natural birth.


----------



## hivechild

hot tea said:


> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Yeah agree with you ju_bubbs about not been able talk about it, of course you can share your experience :flower: but the op has said how she thinks its important to some people to have a natural birth..... this s what I'm finding hard to understand...... Surely there's nothing more important than having your baby in your send safe and sound and not matter how they got there
> 
> Well of course it is important!! Having expectations for their labors is soooo natural in itself. Planning ahead, wanting something, working towards it... I see absolutely no harm?? That can be said for those planning a csection or for an epidural.Click to expand...

I actually had no plan, didn't fantasize about the perfect birth, had no expectations, didn't remember much from my birthing classes or any of that breathing business. From the get go, I simply held the attitude that I would just do what had to be done and deal with things as they came. If I had needed drugs, I would have taken them, if I had needed medical intervention for myself or my baby's health, I would have accepted it.

Even though I probably had one of those births a lot of women envy, I think the fact that I didn't have lofty expectations made it so much easier for me to just get into the groove of things and for my body to do what it had to do. That is just my one personal experience mind you!


----------



## Verse

Fabby said:


> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.

While I agree a safe baby is the MOST important thing, I am personally concerned about potential long-term side effects on myself from things such as epidurals. And for those of us crossing fingers and toes for a birth without medication, I think it gives us some hope to hear that yes, there are people out there in the modern world who have managed to do just that. If I need something to keep the baby safe I'll take it. But if a few hours of personal agony gives me even a slightly better chance of making a more complete or faster recovery I'll do my very best to just grin (or more likely scream :haha: and bear it. I'm much more afraid of facing my first few days with a newborn with a blinding headache than I am of labor, and I'm unwilling to accept even the slightest whisper of a risk of increasing my chance of a c-section. Granted, I may wind up needing every type of intervention known to man, but it is still comforting to hear that some people have managed the sort of delivery I'm hoping for!


----------



## ermm23a

I didn't have a choice. I got sudden severe pre-eclampsia and they had to take him via emergency c-section at 33 weeks. He was only 3 lbs 10 oz at birth and probably wouldn't have survived induction. 

I am glad that we have the medical technology available as me and or my baby would have died without intervention, but I totally respect the women who are able to go it au naturale. :)

But I will tell you- if you do have to have a section it is really not that bad. I was expecting the worst, and I promise- it was NOTHING like what I though it would be. I wasn't even taking painkillers when I left the hospital. So don't be terrified if you do end up having to have one.


----------



## tristansmum

aliss said:


> I really don't see the harm in asking. I had a variety of horrible interventions that made my son's birth the worst day of my life, I'm pretty sensitive to it, but I don't see what's wrong with her asking about those who had 100% natural (whatever that may be;)) and wanting to hear about it. I wish I could respond "yes" to this thread but I can't, but it still makes me warm & gooey inside (LOL) to see that some women achieved what I didn't get.
> 
> I kind of feel like the girl with the broken ankle watching the other marathoners cross the finish line, iykwim? Sure, it sucks to not be a part of it, but I am very happy for those who made it.


totally how i feel. My friends who had great natural births i feel so happy for BUT i wish i could tell the same story.


----------



## hivechild

hot tea said:


> hivechild said:
> 
> 
> Laboring and birth is an amazing and empowering experience for many women, but it isn't the most empowering for women, period, and for some women, it is the exact opposite, and not just because of drugs or intervention. It is a lot more complicated and there are so many factors that prevent such a black and white perspective on birthing.
> 
> Perhaps you are right. This is just my own experience with my son. I feel I would not come out quite as empowered if it hadn't been an intervention and drug free birth. :flower:
> 
> This thread was honestly never meant to pass judgement, I was just curious to see.Click to expand...

After my son was born, I was amazed at what my body did, so I do understand where you are coming from. I actually went into a trance-sleep like state between contractions and pushes, even if it was only a minute or so between them. It was weirdly freaky in hindsight! It was the ultimate cat nap!


----------



## Fabby

aliss said:


> I really don't see the harm in asking. I had a variety of horrible interventions that made my son's birth the worst day of my life, I'm pretty sensitive to it, but I don't see what's wrong with her asking about those who had 100% natural (whatever that may be;)) and wanting to hear about it. I wish I could respond "yes" to this thread but I can't, but it still makes me warm & gooey inside (LOL) to see that some women achieved what I didn't get.
> 
> I kind of feel like the girl with the broken ankle watching the other marathoners cross the finish line, iykwim? Sure, it sucks to not be a part of it, but I am very happy for those who made it.

Yeah I agree with you to. What I am saying or even asking is, why does it matter? I really don't understand why it matters if you have a labour with no intervention or drugs cus at the end of it weather there was intervention/ drugs or no intervention/drugs your going get your baby...... Isnt that what labours all about? Not weather intervention or drugs were needed?


----------



## bigbetty

hivechild said:


> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hivechild said:
> 
> 
> Laboring and birth is an amazing and empowering experience for many women, but it isn't the most empowering for women, period, and for some women, it is the exact opposite, and not just because of drugs or intervention. It is a lot more complicated and there are so many factors that prevent such a black and white perspective on birthing.
> 
> Perhaps you are right. This is just my own experience with my son. I feel I would not come out quite as empowered if it hadn't been an intervention and drug free birth. :flower:
> 
> This thread was honestly never meant to pass judgement, I was just curious to see.Click to expand...
> 
> After my son was born, I was amazed at what my body did, so I do understand where you are coming from. I actually went into a trance-sleep like state between contractions and pushes, even if it was only a minute or so between them. It was weirdly freaky in hindsight! It was the ultimate cat nap!Click to expand...

I was snoring and dreaming between pushes lmao!


----------



## aliss

Fabby said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> I really don't see the harm in asking. I had a variety of horrible interventions that made my son's birth the worst day of my life, I'm pretty sensitive to it, but I don't see what's wrong with her asking about those who had 100% natural (whatever that may be;)) and wanting to hear about it. I wish I could respond "yes" to this thread but I can't, but it still makes me warm & gooey inside (LOL) to see that some women achieved what I didn't get.
> 
> I kind of feel like the girl with the broken ankle watching the other marathoners cross the finish line, iykwim? Sure, it sucks to not be a part of it, but I am very happy for those who made it.
> 
> Yeah I agree with you to. What I am saying or even asking is, why does it matter? I really don't understand why it matters if you have a labour with no intervention or drugs cus at the end of it weather there was intervention/ drugs or no intervention/drugs your going get your baby...... Isnt that what labours all about? Not weather intervention or drugs were needed?Click to expand...

Well, it depends. My baby experienced complications from my induction/epidural so to me, yes, drugs/interventions are a HUGE deal. Some women seem to forget that those 1/100 statistics have a name...


----------



## Ju_bubbs

I think I'm gunna get out of here while everything is still being civil! :haha:


----------



## hot tea

Fabby said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> I really don't see the harm in asking. I had a variety of horrible interventions that made my son's birth the worst day of my life, I'm pretty sensitive to it, but I don't see what's wrong with her asking about those who had 100% natural (whatever that may be;)) and wanting to hear about it. I wish I could respond "yes" to this thread but I can't, but it still makes me warm & gooey inside (LOL) to see that some women achieved what I didn't get.
> 
> I kind of feel like the girl with the broken ankle watching the other marathoners cross the finish line, iykwim? Sure, it sucks to not be a part of it, but I am very happy for those who made it.
> 
> Yeah I agree with you to. What I am saying or even asking is, why does it matter? I really don't understand why it matters if you have a labour with no intervention or drugs cus at the end of it weather there was intervention/ drugs or no intervention/drugs your going get your baby...... Isnt that what labours all about? Not weather intervention or drugs were needed?Click to expand...

I would not have felt as good or as strong if I had had drugs. I wanted to do it exactly as nature intended it. I didnt want to be hooked to an IV, put on a table, with forceps etc etc... It just was not something I wanted! And yes, what I want does matter when it comes to birth, because it is my body. 

Some women are all for the drugs, it makes them relax and gives them what THEY need. Awesome! Perfect for them. I am glad they made whatever choice was best for their bodies.

I am very confused by what you mean, honestly. Like... How can it not matter to a mother, when it is her body going through an incredible change and process? I want to be present, with my body, with my baby, with the pain, with it all. Having a natural birth does matter if in the end it will make me feel that way.


----------



## Fabby

Ju_bubbs said:


> I think I'm gunna get out of here while everything is still being civil! :haha:

Haha me too! I don't normally reply to threads like this, I just keep my opinion to myself usually and try understand both sides. 

It's just I look at my friend and see what she had go through and I look at my child and think how lucky we were. All a bit sensitive. And I'm on my period :haha: 
:flower: I'm off to reply to threads I won't get upset by x


----------



## special_kala

Whilst I don't think there is anything wrong with pain releif I do kind of wish that women in general had more faith in themselves and their bodies rather then just assuming they will have a epi from the get go.

I found I actually enjoyed my labour with willow and the more I got into ny head the less I needed the GA


----------



## Lina

Some people seem to believe that as soon as you get pregnant all that matters is the baby, and you are selfish to feel otherwise.


----------



## Ruby x

hot tea said:


> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.
> 
> It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!
> 
> I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug: i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs. :shrug: and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them.Click to expand...

well youve offended me. YOU asked a question..I told you my experience then you commented that it wasnt natural. As far as im concerned gas and air didnt do anything exept make my voice funny and even if you dont consider it a natural birth, I do. As much as you say people should appreciate your opinion of what is 'natural' I think you should fully appreciate others opinion of what 'natural' is. And I agree wih others, such a subjective subject..and what does it matter anyway? Its treads like this that make people feel like a failure for having meds, and for those suffering with PND its not exactly what they would want to hear.


----------



## Cattia

It kind of seems to me that what matters is how a mother feels about her birth. I know of some people (I can think of two in particular) who have had entirely 'natural' births becasue their labours have been so quick that they have not even had the opportunity to use intervention (one was a breech delivery that they didn't know was breech) and both have actually felt quite traumatised by the experience because they felt so out of control. On the other hand, I know of people who have had emergency C Sections and feel quite happy with their birthing experiences. I think it's such a subjective thing that you can only really speak for your own experiences.


----------



## LoraLoo

special_kala said:


> Whilst I don't think there is anything wrong with pain releif I do kind of wish that women in general had more faith in themselves and their bodies rather then just assuming they will have a epi from the get go.
> 
> I found I actually enjoyed my labour with willow and the more I got into ny head the less I needed the GA

I guess spme people juat dont see the point in dealing with the pain if they dont have to :shrug: Baby is going to come out either way so i guess their view is to make it as painless and relaxing as possible. Me? Just the thought of that needle makes me feel :wacko::wacko: lol, I think I'd pass out before they even got it into me :haha:


----------



## amygwen

Ruby x said:


> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.
> 
> It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!
> 
> I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug: i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs. :shrug: and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them.Click to expand...
> 
> well youve offended me. YOU asked a question..I told you my experience then you commented that it wasnt natural. As far as im concerned gas and air didnt do anything exept make my voice funny and even if you dont consider it a natural birth, I do. As much as you say people should appreciate your opinion of what is 'natural' I think you should fully appreciate others opinion of what 'natural' is. And I agree wih others, such a subjective subject..and what does it matter anyway? Its treads like this that make people feel like a failure for having meds, and for those suffering with PND its not exactly what they would want to hear.Click to expand...

I wouldn't argue with her ladies.

She (hot tea) likes to start and continue controversial threads :hugs:


----------



## vaniilla

completely "natural" by definition is giving birth at home with no midwives there because technically they're medical staff aren't they same with a hospital whats natural about a hospital? giving birth is a natural birth full stop unless you pull the baby out of your ear or you use magic, I had an episiotomy and would have taken an epidural if I could have, I consider my birth natural, I would have considered it as the same thing if I had gone for a c-section, there is no such thing as un-natural childbirth *imo* there are only un-natural views and expectations on what people should do with their own bodies.


----------



## ILoveShoes

pinklizzy said:


> I feel that I had as natural a birth as possible for a breech delivery, I did have an episiotomy and a couple of puffs on the gas and air though.

Me too :thumbup:
My LO was footling breech. I had a little bit of G&A, and I had to have an episiotomy too because he was facing the wrong way and needed turning. Feet first and back to front - awkward little monkey!
xx


----------



## Kimmy25

Imo, gimme the drugs!


----------



## Ruby x

Every person is different and evey baby is too,size wise and position wise (back to back) some people experience more pain than others, some people cope better, dont put a downer on other peoples birth experiences. You dont get a gold medal for having no meds, at the end of the day you get a beautiful baby and thats much better than a blue peter badge!


----------



## bigbetty

As I said to Fabby, I understand where you are coming from because ideally I would have wanted an intervention and drug free birth. But unfortunately that didn't happen for me.

But what I think Fabby is trying to say is that if you get yourself all hyped up for a completely natural birth, but for whatever reason that doesn't happen - will you be disappointed? Will it matter to you when you are holding your gorgeous, healthy little baby in your arms at the end of it?

That's why I didn't make a birth plan. I made a decision to go with the flow and that way I knew I would be happy whatever the outcome - and I was


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

me completely natural went into labour with my 1st, mia at 34 weeks and had mild contractions from 3am to 4.30pm then I had intense contractions straight away and I was told I was 10 cm dilated to push lol and I loved the experience I felt like I remembered it all was only pushing for 1hour 18 mins dont get me wrong when the baby is crowning its bloody stingy lol 

(I had 2 paracetamol lol does that count!!)


----------



## Ruby x

amygwen said:


> Ruby x said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.
> 
> It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!
> 
> I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug: i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs. :shrug: and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them.Click to expand...
> 
> well youve offended me. YOU asked a question..I told you my experience then you commented that it wasnt natural. As far as im concerned gas and air didnt do anything exept make my voice funny and even if you dont consider it a natural birth, I do. As much as you say people should appreciate your opinion of what is 'natural' I think you should fully appreciate others opinion of what 'natural' is. And I agree wih others, such a subjective subject..and what does it matter anyway? Its treads like this that make people feel like a failure for having meds, and for those suffering with PND its not exactly what they would want to hear.Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't argue with her ladies.
> 
> She (hot tea) likes to start and continue controversial threads :hugs:Click to expand...

ah thanks for the heads up. This is the first post I have seen on BnB thats has properly wound me up...


----------



## Tasha

Cattia said:


> It kind of seems to me that what matters is how a mother feels about her birth. I know of some people (I can think of two in particular) who have had entirely 'natural' births becasue their labours have been so quick that they have not even had the opportunity to use intervention (one was a breech delivery that they didn't know was breech) and both have actually felt quite traumatised by the experience because they felt so out of control. On the other hand, I know of people who have had emergency C Sections and feel quite happy with their birthing experiences. I think it's such a subjective thing that you can only really speak for your own experiences.

Yes this exactly. My first birth I hated, lots of inteventions, my leg falling off the bed because epi had only worked one side and shouted at a lot by the mw (stuff like stop being stupid there is no time for breathing), made it really traumatising for me, yet my emergency section due to baby's distress was actually a good experience. My other three births were fab too.


----------



## Kimmy25

xxClaire_24xx said:


> me completely natural went into labour with my 1st, mia at 34 weeks and had mild contractions from 3am to 4.30pm then I had intense contractions straight away and I was told I was 10 cm dilated to push lol and I loved the experience I felt like I remembered it all was only pushing for 1hour 18 mins dont get me wrong when the baby is crowning its bloody stingy lol
> 
> *(I had 2 paracetamol lol does that count!!)*

Apparently so PFFT..They dont even sort my headache out :haha:


----------



## special_kala

LoraLoo said:


> special_kala said:
> 
> 
> Whilst I don't think there is anything wrong with pain releif I do kind of wish that women in general had more faith in themselves and their bodies rather then just assuming they will have a epi from the get go.
> 
> I found I actually enjoyed my labour with willow and the more I got into ny head the less I needed the GA
> 
> I guess spme people juat dont see the point in dealing with the pain if they dont have to :shrug: Baby is going to come out either way so i guess their view is to make it as painless and relaxing as possible. Me? Just the thought of that needle makes me feel :wacko::wacko: lol, I think I'd pass out before they even got it into me :haha:Click to expand...

The only problem with that is that there are risks with intervention.

From a purely selfish point for myself I would have had a epidural so it didn't hurt but from my epidural experience with river i knew I couldn't have another one SD I felt the effects on my labour and river wernt worth me having no pain.

That's just based on my experience with s drug labour


----------



## Kimmy25

vaniilla said:


> completely "natural" by definition is giving birth at home with no midwives there because technically they're medical staff aren't they same with a hospital whats natural about a hospital? giving birth is a natural birth full stop unless you pull the baby out of your ear or you use magic, I had an episiotomy and would have taken an epidural if I could have, I consider my birth natural, I would have considered it as the same thing if I had gone for a c-section, there is no such thing as un-natural childbirth *imo* there are only un-natural views and expectations on what people should do with their own bodies.

:thumbup:


----------



## Fabby

bigbetty said:


> As I said to Fabby, I understand where you are coming from because ideally I would have wanted an intervention and drug free birth. But unfortunately that didn't happen for me.
> 
> But what I think Fabby is trying to say is that if you get yourself all hyped up for a completely natural birth, but for whatever reason that doesn't happen - will you be disappointed? Will it matter to you when you are holding your gorgeous, healthy little baby in your arms at the end of it?
> 
> That's why I didn't make a birth plan. I made a decision to go with the flow and that way I knew I would be happy whatever the outcome - and I was

This is exactly what I mean! Thanks betty! Glad someone could understand where I was coming from and put it in a different word context. 

Knew I couldnt help myself nosing back!


----------



## aliss

xxClaire_24xx said:


> (I had 2 paracetamol lol does that count!!)

Hehe IMO about as much as putting a band aid on your stump where your leg was just cut off!


----------



## Fabby

Kimmy25 said:


> vaniilla said:
> 
> 
> completely "natural" by definition is giving birth at home with no midwives there because technically they're medical staff aren't they same with a hospital whats natural about a hospital? giving birth is a natural birth full stop unless you pull the baby out of your ear or you use magic, I had an episiotomy and would have taken an epidural if I could have, I consider my birth natural, I would have considered it as the same thing if I had gone for a c-section, there is no such thing as un-natural childbirth *imo* there are only un-natural views and expectations on what people should do with their own bodies.
> 
> :thumbup:Click to expand...

Brilliantly put! X


----------



## bigbetty

aliss said:


> xxClaire_24xx said:
> 
> 
> (I had 2 paracetamol lol does that count!!)
> 
> Hehe IMO about as much as putting a band aid on your stump where your leg was just cut off!Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## hot tea

amygwen said:


> Ruby x said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.
> 
> It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!
> 
> I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug: i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs. :shrug: and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them.Click to expand...
> 
> well youve offended me. YOU asked a question..I told you my experience then you commented that it wasnt natural. As far as im concerned gas and air didnt do anything exept make my voice funny and even if you dont consider it a natural birth, I do. As much as you say people should appreciate your opinion of what is 'natural' I think you should fully appreciate others opinion of what 'natural' is. And I agree wih others, such a subjective subject..and what does it matter anyway? Its treads like this that make people feel like a failure for having meds, and for those suffering with PND its not exactly what they would want to hear.Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't argue with her ladies.
> 
> She (hot tea) likes to start and continue controversial threads :hugs:Click to expand...

My thread is not even controversial. It wasnt even meant ot be a debate. I asked questions, it opened up conversation. You are absolutely rude. :thumbup:


----------



## cowboys angel

also without medical personel, haha. Yay me! 

I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.


----------



## hot tea

cowboys angel said:


> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.

Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!


----------



## Vickie

Thread moved to home and natural birthing at OP's request


----------



## Ruby x

hot tea said:


> amygwen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruby x said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.
> 
> It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!
> 
> I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug: i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs. :shrug: and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them.Click to expand...
> 
> well youve offended me. YOU asked a question..I told you my experience then you commented that it wasnt natural. As far as im concerned gas and air didnt do anything exept make my voice funny and even if you dont consider it a natural birth, I do. As much as you say people should appreciate your opinion of what is 'natural' I think you should fully appreciate others opinion of what 'natural' is. And I agree wih others, such a subjective subject..and what does it matter anyway? Its treads like this that make people feel like a failure for having meds, and for those suffering with PND its not exactly what they would want to hear.Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't argue with her ladies.
> 
> She (hot tea) likes to start and continue controversial threads :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> My thread is not even controversial. It wasnt even meant ot be a debate. I asked questions, it opened up conversation. You are absolutely rude. :thumbup:Click to expand...

reread your posts then have a rethink about whom is being rude.


----------



## patch2006uk

bigbetty said:


> As I said to Fabby, I understand where you are coming from because ideally I would have wanted an intervention and drug free birth. But unfortunately that didn't happen for me.
> 
> But what I think Fabby is trying to say is that if you get yourself all hyped up for a completely natural birth, but for whatever reason that doesn't happen - *will you be disappointed? Will it matter to you when you are holding your gorgeous, healthy little baby in your arms at the end of it?*
> 
> That's why I didn't make a birth plan. I made a decision to go with the flow and that way I knew I would be happy whatever the outcome - and I was

I was utterly disappointed. I had to have a c-section as I was 18 days over, LO had passed his mec. and was super distressed and the induction drip nearly killed him. All I'd wanted was to experience labour and birth. I wanted as little intervention as possible. I didn't want a c-section unless it was life and death. And it was.

And however amazing the tiny little person I'd grown was, nothing could get rid of the disappointment I felt that my body had let me and my son down. Why didn't I go into labour? Enough other women seem to manage it. What's wrong with me?

I didn't give birth to my son, the surgeon cut him out. I grew him and I've fed him, but I didn't give birth to him. Enough time has passed now that I can say that he was 100% worth it. But that was a long time coming.

I was always the one who dismissed c-sections as something that happens to other people. I trusted my body, and it let me down. Nothing can prepare you for that.

I don't admire anyone who did it without pain relief, you were just dealt a different hand to me. Would I trade? Absolutely.


----------



## cowboys angel

hot tea said:


> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...


Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:

No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.

Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:


----------



## Tasha

It is funny how we all see things differently, birthing and our thoughts on it are as individual as we are. For instance some of you have said that all that matters is that you have a healthy baby at the end of it, and whilst of course I agree, it is because at the end of two labours I have not not had a healthy live screaming baby that for me it matters a lot what my birth experience is like. Sometimes all you are left with is memories, and well to me it is important those memories are as close to perfect as they can be given the circumstances. Like my labour with Honey was great, my labour with Riley Rae was perfect and for me it makes looking back that little easier, it made my time with them better. Any future babies the labour experience would be important too because you just never know what might happen, I know that is morbid but thought it might give some of you a little insight in to why it can be important.


----------



## KatieB

I always thought I'd have a natural birth with just gas and air (yes, I most certainly do consider this a natural birth). I was 3 cm dilated from when my waters broke most amazingly *all over *downstairs floor to arriving in triage 45 mins later. Labour progressed v quickly until the midwife told me baby was back to back and couldn't progress past 8 cm for hours. I reached the stage where they told me to push, and pushed... and pushed.. nothing was giving. Very quickly I had was suddenly taken to theatre and given a spinal block in case of c-section. Ended up having forceps delivery and episiotomy, all this 18 hours after arriving at hospital. I later found out that my beautiful Louis had been born with the cord around his neck which sent me into hysteria after such a long labour. I still felt "empowered" as hell that I'd gone through all that and the outcome was I'd given birth to my darling baby and couldn't care less how the end result came about. Fair play to the ladies who had a natural birth,it's brilliant, but personally, I don't feel robbed of any "experience", *my* labour *was* my experience. If DS hadn't been back to back I would have had a natural birth but life's full of what ifs!


----------



## patch2006uk

cowboys angel said:


> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...

I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?


----------



## Ruby x

I have ultimate respect for those who go med free, however for some people it is completely out of their control and they are made to feel bad for having pain relief. I would have taken any medication going IF I had needed it, as it happened I didnt need it and Im so grateful for that as I managed to get home from hospital quicker and no forceps which I was so scared of. People shouldnt be made to feel inadiquate for their experiences, everyone is different!


----------



## cowboys angel

patch2006uk said:


> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...

I do agree with you in that aspect, a bit... But I meant more the people whose birth went out of their control or the pain was just too much.


----------



## bigbetty

patch2006uk said:


> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...

I, personally, don't see the point in having a c-section just for the sake of it either. But that's my opinion x


----------



## hot tea

Nthing I have said even hints at making others who have pain relief feel bad, though. I have made it very very plain that is differs from situation. This thread is, or was supposed to be, specifically about natural/drug free births to begin with.

And patch, I do my best not to judge because it is sensitive people who jump on the "you are a rude bitch" bandwagon. All I will say is I cant exactly... Relate to their choices. And that is absolutely okay considering it isnt my choice to begin with!


----------



## cowboys angel

I was told I'd likely have a difficult birth, so my thing was, I wanted a natural birth if possible, but I told my husband if it was getting bad and for some reason I was hysterical or wahtever and wouldn't give permission for csection or forceps or anything, to hit me over the head and give consent himself :rofl:


----------



## tristansmum

bigbetty said:


> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...
> 
> I, personally, don't see the point in having a c-section just for the sake of it either. But that's my opinion xClick to expand...


i don't know how many people have a c section for no medical need ( in UK anyway). My friend had a very traumatic first birth and felt she couldn't go through it again so wanted a c section this time. she had the really fight for it. i'd still say she had a medical need cause of a traumatic first delivery and physicolgically she couldn't face it again.....


----------



## cowboys angel

I'd say that counts as a medical need.


----------



## patch2006uk

tristansmum said:


> bigbetty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...
> 
> I, personally, don't see the point in having a c-section just for the sake of it either. But that's my opinion xClick to expand...
> 
> 
> i don't know how many people have a c section for no medical need ( in UK anyway). My friend had a very traumatic first birth and felt she couldn't go through it again so wanted a c section this time. she had the really fight for it. i'd still say she had a medical need cause of a traumatic first delivery and physicolgically she couldn't face it again.....Click to expand...

I'd consider that a medical need. Mental health is just as important as physical. 

I know some women who have gone private so they can schedule their diaries around the birth.

Anyway, that's a tangent for another day. 

I do try not to judge, but the labour/birth experience was so important to ne, and to see people throw their opportunity away, I just don't understand.


----------



## bigbetty

tristansmum said:


> bigbetty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...
> 
> I, personally, don't see the point in having a c-section just for the sake of it either. But that's my opinion xClick to expand...
> 
> 
> i don't know how many people have a c section for no medical need ( in UK anyway). My friend had a very traumatic first birth and felt she couldn't go through it again so wanted a c section this time. she had the really fight for it. i'd still say she had a medical need cause of a traumatic first delivery and physicolgically she couldn't face it again.....Click to expand...

I think that's a perfectly valid reason! I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, just that I don't understand why someone would opt to have a section if they didn't need to - especially if it's their first baby. But that's just the way my mind works, everyone has their own way of looking at things and I don't judge people for their decisions xxx


----------



## LoraLoo

patch2006uk said:


> tristansmum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigbetty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...
> 
> I, personally, don't see the point in having a c-section just for the sake of it either. But that's my opinion xClick to expand...
> 
> 
> i don't know how many people have a c section for no medical need ( in UK anyway). My friend had a very traumatic first birth and felt she couldn't go through it again so wanted a c section this time. she had the really fight for it. i'd still say she had a medical need cause of a traumatic first delivery and physicolgically she couldn't face it again.....Click to expand...
> 
> I'd consider that a medical need. Mental health is just as important as physical.
> 
> I know some women who have gone private so they can schedule their diaries around the birth.
> 
> Anyway, that's a tangent for another day.
> 
> I do try not to judge, but the labour/birth experience was so important to ne, and to see people throw their opportunity away, I just don't understand.Click to expand...

But if i said i looked down my nose at people who chose not to breastfeed, there'd be hell on :shrug: Birth is no different for me, we make choices which are best for us, if we are happy with them, then what does it matter to anyone else?


----------



## tristansmum

cowboys angel said:


> I'd say that counts as a medical need.


yeah. i'm just wondering if the whole "i don't fancy a vaginal birth so i'll book in a c section when it suits me" actually happens on the NHS... i'm not sure its too common really. i'm an nhs nurse and i know we have to follow protocol to the book on everything and its all cost cutting. so i can't imagine many women get unneccassary c sectins


----------



## Ruby x

hot tea said:


> Nthing I have said even hints at making others who have pain relief feel bad, though. I have made it very very plain that is differs from situation. This thread is, or was supposed to be, specifically about natural/drug free births to begin with.
> 
> And patch, I do my best not to judge because it is sensitive people who jump on the "you are a rude bitch" bandwagon. All I will say is I cant exactly... Relate to their choices. And that is absolutely okay considering it isnt my choice to begin with!

im not sensitive at all...and for you to claim not to judge...i think you just did


----------



## cowboys angel

It happens quite a bit in the US unfortunately. :nope:


----------



## patch2006uk

cowboys angel said:


> patch2006uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> also without medical personel, haha. Yay me!
> 
> I gave birth at the hospital but they were too slow.
> 
> Wow, now that must be an amazing birth story!!Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha it was, link in my signature. I almost gave birth in the car :haha:
> 
> *No one go off on me, but having a natural birth was VERY important to me personally, but I don't look down on those who have had drugs or anything.
> *
> Just my 2 cents, that's all I'm saying. :flower:Click to expand...
> 
> I do find I look down a little on those who opt for c-sections _without_ there being a medical need, as they are turning down the chance to do something I wanted to do but was denied, if that makes sense?Click to expand...
> 
> I do agree with you in that aspect, a bit... But I meant more the people whose birth went out of their control or the pain was just too much.Click to expand...

That makes sense :)


----------



## tristansmum

cowboys angel said:


> It happens quite a bit in the US unfortunately. :nope:


sorry i hadn't looked at your location. yeah i imagine things are different between the two countries.


----------



## Blu10

Interesting thread... My biggest fear was an epidural / section because the thought of not bein able to feel my legs terrifies me! I got to 7cm with no analgesia then decided there were no medals for enduring that pain and had G&A. Unfortunately after 4 and half hours pushing I ended up with an episiotomy and forceps followed by a large haemorrhage, none of which were preventable. I was just glad my boy arrived safely and I'm in no rush to repeat the forceps birth in the future. In an ideal world next time I'd hope for minimal intervention but still use G&A if needed x


----------



## cowboys angel

tristansmum said:


> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> It happens quite a bit in the US unfortunately. :nope:
> 
> 
> sorry i hadn't looked at your location. yeah i imagine things are different between the two countries.Click to expand...

Haha it's all good.


----------



## patch2006uk

tristansmum said:


> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> I'd say that counts as a medical need.
> 
> 
> yeah. i'm just wondering if the whole "i don't fancy a vaginal birth so i'll book in a c section when it suits me" actually happens on the NHS... i'm not sure its too common really. i'm an nhs nurse and i know we have to follow protocol to the book on everything and its all cost cutting. so i can't imagine many women get unneccassary c sectinsClick to expand...

I don't think it does partic happen on the NHS, but you can always pay to go private.


----------



## milf2be

Ju_bubbs said:


> IMO, baby has spent 9 months lying in a sac of water, so what could possibly be more natural for LO than being born into water? :shrug:

my midwifery textbook by dimond actually says having a water birth because it's natural, is not a competent reason to have one, because it's not natural. it's natural for amphibians, not for humans. 

i think what the OP means is a med free birth not a natural one

i was induced for pre ecampsia so i'm out straight away :haha: IMO i had a natural birth because i had a vaginal delivery, but i had gas and air (had absolutely no effect on me apart from make me shake like mad - didnt even make me dizzy) pethidine and epidrual. i was in hospital a couple of days before labour and had about 6 hours sleep in total in 3 nights (not counting the night before i had him when i was up from 1am when my waters broke) so i really needed the epidural (and the pethidine while i was waiting for the epidural because they had to redo bloods to see if i could have one) to catch up on sleep, so i would have the energy to push. LO was also transverse which makes it more painful. 

my epidural was perfect tbh. it didnt take all the pain away but it took enough away for me to sleep. it also came back (i think it must have been when i was in transition) so i had the urge to push and i could feel exactly where LO's head was has he was coming down. also helped me not tear because i could control my pushes better :thumbup:


----------



## milf2be

hot tea said:


> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hot tea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabby said:
> 
> 
> Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you then you don't really apply to any of my questions. :flower: it matters to some mothers.Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> Like saphire says, I hope no mums on here are reading this because some mums don't gave a choice and doesnt go so plain sailing as you nay want or dream.
> 
> I'm feeling sensitive about this because I have a friend who had a very distressed birth and resulted in their son being very poorly and has only just heen able come home after 6 weeks. So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see how conflicting the first two paragraghs of your post are? You dobt understand why it should matter, yet it might offend some people because it DID matter and they didnt get what they wanted in their own labours.
> 
> It matters to me. Of course it should matter to me. Labour is hte most empowering experience a woman can ever have. I know I would be devastated if I had many interventions. I invision a drug free labour, natural at home. It is not just a dream, it is reality! Of course there are some occasions where natural births cannot happen - say csections - but otherwords it really doesnt need to be viewed as a pipe dream for any one!!
> 
> I am not saying tha natural is obviously superior. :shrug:* i am just saying it needn't be a touchy subject for those that actively chose drugs.  and those that had interventions they couldnt control, well, I cant see why they would be offended either, because it wasnt in there control and no blame could be on them*.Click to expand...

you've obviously never had postnatal depression lol


----------



## bassdesire

We had no interventions at all, not even IV fluids! 

It was magical--and we are doing it again at home (!) next month!!


----------



## minibeast

"Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared. "

bull shit


----------



## lozzy21

As some one who has been left with PTSD after the birth of my daughter trust me, it does matter.


----------



## toddlerandpip

I had a home birth with first baby and a water birth and that was it until the after she was born. I had gas and air for the placenta delivery and stitches. 

Of course how you labour matters to people, but it matters less the further away from birth you get. I found people really competative. One 'friend' bragged about how she didn't have any drugs after my birth saying she had a natural 3rd stage blah blah so all I had to do was say it was such a shame she didnt feel she could go through with the home birth she wanted and she shut up lol. 

And my opinion, not that it means anything, is that water, walking, hypnobirthing are natural. Gas and air, paracetamol, epidural etc are interventions.


----------



## KatieB

minibeast said:


> "Why does it matter? As long as they arrive safely they could of given and done anything to me and I wouldn't of cared. "
> 
> bull shit

Well it may be bullshit to you but it obviously isn't to the person who you quoted from and she has that right to express her opinion without responses like that. I take it that she meant however unexpected the turn of events could be during labour, all that she would be concerned about ultimately is the safe delivery of her baby, not how natural the birth was. When I had to be rushed to theatre for possible c-section (managed to avoid it in the end) all I remember thinking was that they could do anything to me as long as my baby was ok. "Bullshit"? I don't think so.


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

I dont think that it matters how a baby is delivered like I said Mia came very quick and easy but I needed a c section to deliver Ellie as she was very poorly through most of the pregnancy and needed to be delivered just under 33 weeks as she had stopped growing and the blood flow from placenta to her had almost stopped, so for me I think that as long as baby arrives safely as can be done then it does not matter at all.


As for opting for a section I think it should be thought about a little more as when we were talking to a woman in neonatal she had lost a baby previously as she couldnt get in for an emergency section as all the theatre were in use and 2 out of the 5 getting done at the time had opted for a section just because, (she looked into and filed complaints and thats why she knew) but then again some people might be afraid to give birth naturally, its all very complicated lol x


----------



## BlackBerry25

I was induced and had gas and air, but I gotta say, the gas had absolutely no effect on me. Not even sure if the tank was on :rofl:


----------



## My_First

I too have to say that I personally didnt care how my baby came. Ultimately if I hadnt had a section, both I and Leo would not be here. All I ultimately wanted was for me and Leo to both be healthy, if that meant him coming out of my ear, I really didnt mind.


----------



## Tasha

xxClaire_24xx said:


> As for opting for a section I think it should be thought about a little more as when we were talking to a woman in neonatal she had lost a baby previously as she couldnt get in for an emergency section as all the theatre were in use and 2 out of the 5 getting done at the time had opted for a section just because, (she looked into and filed complaints and thats why she knew) but then again some people might be afraid to give birth naturally, its all very complicated lol x

That isnt just because then, it is due to medical history and also most likely psychological reasons, the woman in neonatal I mean. And people being scared is again psychological reasons.


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

Tasha said:


> xxClaire_24xx said:
> 
> 
> As for opting for a section I think it should be thought about a little more as when we were talking to a woman in neonatal she had lost a baby previously as she couldnt get in for an emergency section as all the theatre were in use and 2 out of the 5 getting done at the time had opted for a section just because, (she looked into and filed complaints and thats why she knew) but then again some people might be afraid to give birth naturally, its all very complicated lol x
> 
> That isnt just because then, it is due to medical history and also most likely psychological reasons, the woman in neonatal I mean. And people being scared is again psychological reasons.Click to expand...

sorry it might have came out wrong she lost a baby the 1st time cause she couldnt get into theatre to have a section as there was no space left xx


----------



## Tasha

xxClaire_24xx said:


> sorry it might have came out wrong she lost a baby the 1st time cause she couldnt get into theatre to have a section as there was no space left xx

Yes, and losing a baby the 1st time would deffo count as a medical reason hun.


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

Tasha said:


> xxClaire_24xx said:
> 
> 
> sorry it might have came out wrong she lost a baby the 1st time cause she couldnt get into theatre to have a section as there was no space left xx
> 
> Yes, and losing a baby the 1st time would deffo count as a medical reason hun.Click to expand...

lol def have missed things this time her baby was born natural and went to NICU and she was just telling me about her 1st time, but I def think that it still doesnt matter how a baby gets her as long as its safely xx


----------



## Tasha

xxClaire_24xx said:


> lol def have missed things this time her baby was born natural and went to NICU and she was just telling me about her 1st time, but I def think that it still doesnt matter how a baby gets her as long as its safely xx

Ahhh, I miss read. I thought she had picked to section just because :dohh: Okay well, the thing is they would not of disclosed the reasons someone else was having a section to her, it is against confidentialty rules so I would take the 2 out of 5 thing with a pinch of salt hun. Even with a complaint, they can not legally tell you why other people were having a section.


----------



## toddlerandpip

It is true that people can choose to have saections though, with no real medical need.


----------



## wigglywoo

For me, having a birth free of medical intervention is very important. I have read and researched to make sure I know my rights so I can ensure that this happens.

Last time I felt I had no choice over where or how to give birth. I now know that I did have a choice and that I was perfectly within my rights to exercise that choice. I wish that I had known then what I know now, as my birth experience would have been so different. I would not have had two midwives holding my legs in the stirrups because I refused to keep them there, I would not have had pethadine or gas and air which I felt was forced on me, I would not have had vaginal examinations, I would not have been on my back on a continuous monitor because I would know that continuous monitoring has not been proven to improve outcomes over occasional doppler usage and because I would know that laying on your back is the worst position to try to birth in.

My unnecessary episiotomy scar still causes me pain at times over 7 years on (she wasn't big or stuck and I didn't have an instrumental delivery, the episiotomy and resulting stitches were totally unnecessary). I feel that I was robbed of the birth I should have had by interventions which were not necessary. It was a scary, threatening experience and not at all empowering as it should be. 

So no, I do not believe that a healthy baby at the end of it is all that matters and I hate that in our society it has almost become a mantra spoken so that women will accept what has happened to them. I think that saying 'well, at least you got a healthy baby' is insulting and is belittling women's feelings about their experiences. I for one would never utter those words as you don't know whether that woman is suffering or has suffered PND due to her birth experience.


----------



## cowboys angel

^^ I agree

I of course would have agreed to anything to get a healthy baby...IF something went wrong.

But I am very glad I got my all natural birth....though I would've liked the DOCTORS to be there....lol


----------



## bigbetty

wigglywoo said:


> For me, having a birth free of medical intervention is very important. I have read and researched to make sure I know my rights so I can ensure that this happens.
> 
> Last time I felt I had no choice over where or how to give birth. I now know that I did have a choice and that I was perfectly within my rights to exercise that choice. I wish that I had known then what I know now, as my birth experience would have been so different. I would not have had two midwives holding my legs in the stirrups because I refused to keep them there, I would not have had pethadine or gas and air which I felt was forced on me, I would not have had vaginal examinations, I would not have been on my back on a continuous monitor because I would know that continuous monitoring has not been proven to improve outcomes over occasional doppler usage and because I would know that laying on your back is the worst position to try to birth in.
> 
> My unnecessary episiotomy scar still causes me pain at times over 7 years on (she wasn't big or stuck and I didn't have an instrumental delivery, the episiotomy and resulting stitches were totally unnecessary). I feel that I was robbed of the birth I should have had by interventions which were not necessary. It was a scary, threatening experience and not at all empowering as it should be.
> 
> So no, I do not believe that a healthy baby at the end of it is all that matters and I hate that in our society it has almost become a mantra spoken so that women will accept what has happened to them. I think that saying 'well, at least you got a healthy baby' is insulting and is belittling women's feelings about their experiences. I for one would never utter those words as you don't know whether that woman is suffering or has suffered PND due to her birth experience.

When I ask does it matter as long as your baby is healthy, what I mean is if, despite planning a drug and intervention free birth, you feel the need to have some sort of pain relief - be it gas and air or an epidural - would you still feel you had lost out? I mean by choosing yourself during labour, not being forced to as you were in your experience.

I believe a woman's birth experience should be what she wants it to be - unless intervention is needed because of risk to baby, mother or both.

A woman shouldn't be forced into anything. I was constantly monitored throughout my labour because I was induced and hooked up to the drip - but I was allowed to move around as much as I wanted (and as far as the wires allowed). I chose to have pethedine and gas and air, but I don't think I would have them again because in all honestly I could have coped without them.

I'm sorry that you, and so many other women, aren't given the information to make your own choices during labour. I think I would be extremely upset if I felt pressured into doing things i didn't feel comfortable with.


----------



## KatieB

Of course if you feel that you had totally unnecessary intervention during labour and you didn't feel able to voice your concerns then that is terrible, I've heard of a lot of women who felt like this on B and B. However for those of us who had no choice re intervention and who say that we didn't care about what means we had go by to ensure a healthy baby, I personally don't feel like I had to "accept" anything, I just feel so lucky to have been in a position where me and my baby were ok. No, it wasn't as I envisioned but then as we all know, anything can happen. I didn't feel robbed of an experience because I didn't have a "natural" birth but I can understand that other women could and would feel this way. Of course I hope if I'm lucky enough to ever have another baby there won't be complications like baby being back to back and not budging and hopefully I won't have to go through such a gruelling time but I went in with an open mind last time and will again. I do agree that people shouldn't always utter such platitudes to women though - as you say, you don't know the situation.


----------



## wigglywoo

I think IF something were to go wrong and intervention could be proved to be needed and that you were given all of the information that was required to make an *informed choice* then that is different to being coerced into having certain things/being in certain positions because it made the lives of the people 'caring' for you easier.

This time I am prepared and at home will not feel scared and threatened. I am in my environment and the people who come to attend me are there as invited guests or they would not be there at all. In my own environment and being well informed, I will be able to remain in control of my own birth and avoid the interventions which made my previous experience so awful.

If a woman *chooses* to have pain relief, that is different to having it forced on her by 'well meaning' hospital staff. The important thing in my opinion is choice and that the choice is *well informed*. My informed choice is to not have any pain relief this time (except water!).


----------



## KatieB

wigglywoo said:


> I think IF something were to go wrong and intervention could be proved to be needed and that you were given all of the information that was required to make an *informed choice* then that is different to being coerced into having certain things/being in certain positions because it made the lives of the people 'caring' for you easier.
> 
> This time I am prepared and at home will not feel scared and threatened. I am in my environment and the people who come to attend me are there as invited guests or they would not be there at all. In my own environment and being well informed, I will be able to remain in control of my own birth and avoid the interventions which made my previous experience so awful.
> 
> If a woman *chooses* to have pain relief, that is different to having it forced on her by 'well meaning' hospital staff. The important thing in my opinion is choice and that the choice is *well informed*. My informed choice is to not have any pain relief this time (except water!).

Sorry you had such an awful experience the first time, I hope you have a wonderful home birth x


----------



## Linzi

I did :) depends on if you count 3rd stage though as i had the injection. I loved it 10 x more than my first labour :) xx


----------



## Linzi

Tasha said:


> It is funny how we all see things differently, birthing and our thoughts on it are as individual as we are. For instance some of you have said that all that matters is that you have a healthy baby at the end of it, and whilst of course I agree, it is because at the end of two labours I have not not had a healthy live screaming baby that for me it matters a lot what my birth experience is like. Sometimes all you are left with is memories, and well to me it is important those memories are as close to perfect as they can be given the circumstances. Like my labour with Honey was great, my labour with Riley Rae was perfect and for me it makes looking back that little easier, it made my time with them better. Any future babies the labour experience would be important too because you just never know what might happen, I know that is morbid but thought it might give some of you a little insight in to why it can be important.

Must agree... ofc a healthy baby at the end is the most important thing, but its not the ONLY important thing. 

I was severely let down I feel, still recovering emotionally from the birth and will be for some time id imagine... but it makes it so much easier that she is here and ok. xx


----------



## cowboys angel

^^I agree. I may have got the natural birth I wanted, but it was very dramatic and was insane. My LO was in the hospital for a bit after I was released. But knowing baby is home with me, and okay makes it much easier cuz, well, she is here and okay.

I really want another natural birth if I get pregnant again, but I am worried about a similar pregnancy/labor/birth....I am actually scared for a repeat.


----------



## Tasha

cowboys angel said:


> I really want another natural birth if I get pregnant again, but I am worried about a similar pregnancy/labor/birth....I am actually scared for a repeat.

One birth to the next can be soooooooooo different. I hope you get the calm, uncomplicated, natural birth you want


----------



## cowboys angel

Aww thanks, me too.


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

Tasha said:


> xxClaire_24xx said:
> 
> 
> lol def have missed things this time her baby was born natural and went to NICU and she was just telling me about her 1st time, but I def think that it still doesnt matter how a baby gets her as long as its safely xx
> 
> Ahhh, I miss read. I thought she had picked to section just because :dohh: Okay well, the thing is they would not of disclosed the reasons someone else was having a section to her, it is against confidentialty rules so I would take the 2 out of 5 thing with a pinch of salt hun. Even with a complaint, they can not legally tell you why other people were having a section.Click to expand...

ive put in a complaint on 2 occasions and was told that on the 1st occasion too long to explain 2nd occasion had to wait til the Sat instead of that day (a fri when I had a scan) that there was already 6 people booked in for sections and that I even although I was an emergency had to wait to 1st place in the morning and that was in a letter from the NHS as I had asked if the lack of blood flow and not having the section that day was anything to do with some of Ellie health conditions hmmm thats annoyed me now as you are correct that is against rules eh


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

wigglywoo said:


> For me, having a birth free of medical intervention is very important. I have read and researched to make sure I know my rights so I can ensure that this happens.
> 
> Last time I felt I had no choice over where or how to give birth. I now know that I did have a choice and that I was perfectly within my rights to exercise that choice. I wish that I had known then what I know now, as my birth experience would have been so different. I would not have had two midwives holding my legs in the stirrups because I refused to keep them there, I would not have had pethadine or gas and air which I felt was forced on me, I would not have had vaginal examinations, I would not have been on my back on a continuous monitor because I would know that continuous monitoring has not been proven to improve outcomes over occasional doppler usage and because I would know that laying on your back is the worst position to try to birth in.
> 
> My unnecessary episiotomy scar still causes me pain at times over 7 years on (she wasn't big or stuck and I didn't have an instrumental delivery, the episiotomy and resulting stitches were totally unnecessary). I feel that I was robbed of the birth I should have had by interventions which were not necessary. It was a scary, threatening experience and not at all empowering as it should be.
> 
> So no, I do not believe that a healthy baby at the end of it is all that matters and I hate that in our society it has almost become a mantra spoken so that women will accept what has happened to them. I think that saying 'well, at least you got a healthy baby' is insulting and is belittling women's feelings about their experiences. I for one would never utter those words as you don't know whether that woman is suffering or has suffered PND due to her birth experience.

this makes sense I too ended up losing 5 pints of blood needed 5 blood transfusions and my bladder is ruined and I may need to get some cut away cause of the section I had but and my spinal wore ogg half way through and I felt EVERYTHING, I am now petrified from any DRs and any other medical treatment I need and I also attend counselling for this too in my mind thats nothing compared to the fact that we have Ellie here and she got here safely but I do respect what you are saying we all have different opinions :flower:


----------



## xxClaire_24xx

wigglywoo said:


> I think IF something were to go wrong and intervention could be proved to be needed and that you were given all of the information that was required to make an *informed choice* then that is different to being coerced into having certain things/being in certain positions because it made the lives of the people 'caring' for you easier.
> 
> This time I am prepared and at home will not feel scared and threatened. I am in my environment and the people who come to attend me are there as invited guests or they would not be there at all. In my own environment and being well informed, I will be able to remain in control of my own birth and avoid the interventions which made my previous experience so awful.
> 
> If a woman *chooses* to have pain relief, that is different to having it forced on her by 'well meaning' hospital staff. The important thing in my opinion is choice and that the choice is *well informed*. *My informed choice is to not have any pain relief this time (except water!)*.

aw I hope you get that this time!!! I really do next time I want to try for sure a natural del but I already have drs saying oh you can opt for a section take it!! im like eh no thanks after having both kinds of births I will choose my own unless necessary again for a section!!!


----------



## chuck

Fabby said:


> I don't understand why it matters so much though :wacko:
> Why does it matter?
> I think to most mums all that MATTERS is that they have their baby in their arms!
> 
> So, imo, no it doesn't matter how the yell our babies arrive into our arms as long as the baby is ok and not if we are ok in how they arrived!

...okay clearly you have never suffered birth trauma.

Wait until the most precious moments of your life are taken from you by people who are supposed to help you.

Wait until you spend months waiting to feel anything other than a vague sense of resentment towards the baby you were given and could be anyones.

I ma not trying to compare having a healthy baby but a shitty birth to the trauma suffered my mothers who do not have healthy babies or who birth angels BUT it is not enough to end up with a healthy baby no matter what.

Pregnancy ad parenthood is the most selfless thing you can ever do you you are entitled to be selfish about the birth because it matters.


----------



## chuck

cowboys angel said:


> I really want another natural birth if I get pregnant again, but I am worried about a similar pregnancy/labor/birth....I am actually scared for a repeat.

I had a LONG labour slow progress transfer from BC to hospitla, synto, AROM, pethadine, epi, EMCS with spinal in theatre alone and only 30 minutes in recovery with hubby.

2nd time planned HBAC, laboured well not even GnA until 9cm, no fuss no muss awesome time...had to trasfer for delivery because of a few blood loss concerns but all was well not a single stitch needed, got skin to skin for an hour before he was even weighed.

Lightening tends not to strike the same place twice.


----------



## cowboys angel

Oh good I'm glad cuz I do NOT want another shit pregnancy and labor


----------



## chuck

cowboys angel said:


> Oh good I'm glad cuz I do NOT want another shit pregnancy and labor

No 2 are the same, especially as 2nd time around you have some experience and a lot more knowledge.


----------



## cowboys angel

Yeah. I was in and out of labor for 4 months or so, I have a 'highly irritable uterus,' unborn baby and doctor and the wind set off contractions, :rofl:, 

Baby had IUGR and an umbilical cord deformity.

I ended up on bedrest most of the pregnancy.

Threatened miscarriage early on in the pregnancy

A few random bleeds.

Baby came a month early, even though I was on meds 4 times a day to stop labor and had multiple hospital visits for shots and IVs and a few times they almost didn't stop labor.

Baby was very small but thankfully never hit NICU


----------



## BlackBerry25

chuck said:


> cowboys angel said:
> 
> 
> Oh good I'm glad cuz I do NOT want another shit pregnancy and labor
> 
> No 2 are the same, especially as 2nd time around you have some experience and a lot more knowledge.Click to expand...

Completely agree!


----------



## summer rain

I had only TENs with second youngest; and it stopped working by the point where it mattered anyway, it wasn't my choice it was down to the home birth midwives being careless and not checking they had the mouthpiece adaptor for the cylinder-while the experience didn't kill me it was quite traumatic. With my youngest now I had to have gas and air again, he was in a very odd position sideways facing-I did give birth to him almost completely unassisted though because the midwives went out of the room and I started involuntarily pushing him out, when they came in his head and shoulders were out. To be honest I'd' rather do it that way next time, I tore less badly than with any of my other labours and it seemed I knew better when to push than the midwives with my other babies xx


----------



## vikirose

At Hot tea, I had 2 completely drug free births. The first one was OP and labour was 36 hrs long but i stuck to my guns and stayed at home, mostly sat in the bath and though there were points where I considered asking the mw to bring me gas and air I resisted as I was worried it would lead onto other pain relief and I really believed I could do it without, I asked them to bring the g&a with them but leave it in their car so it wouldn't be so tempting, if I could see it in the corner of the room I would have defo tried it.
With no 2 my contractions stayed at 12 mins apart until I had 2 at just 1 minute apart then I pushed him out in 2 contractions. I managed to fall asleep sat on the floor with my arms holding the birth ball (god knows how I managed that) between each 12 min contraction...i then counted backwards throught the contraction from 60 and it really took my mind off the pain and made them seem totally bearable. Also the midwife was still on the phone for her back up mw in my living room when I pushed him out on all 4s in the bathroom into my partners hands....proper natural haha!!
Don't understand why the thread got nasty and sooo long. It was a simple enough question!!


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## lynnikins

theres a huge difference between "Natural" and "drug free" i think the OP was asking about "drug free" not "Natural" birth as Natural depends very much on the mothers view of things an if people ask if i had my GIANT boys naturally I say yes even though with both labours, i used Water, TENS and Gas and Air and was taking co-codamol at the begining stages of labour to manage my SPD pain to allow me to move, i was induced with ds2 as well but class it as a natural birth i class ds1 as a natural assisted birth as he was born with ventouse assistance. having been through birth 2wice i know what my aims are for this labour/birth and would love to get them but i know the reality of sometimes nessacary medical intervention too so i can mentally prepare myself better for all possibilitys knowing that ive researched what happens and the effects when things dont go to plan ,than i did with ds1 where i felt i was somewhat robbed of the Birth for months afterwards and suffered PND in silence for most of his first year.
Im all for drug free birth but what is most important for me is that mother and baby come out safe and the mother is not truamatised by her experience.


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## Mum2b_Claire

Me.

Although....I had my waters broken, so I guess that's an intervention.


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## toddlerandpip

My waters only broke 5 mins before she was born!


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## cowboys angel

My waters broke naturally about 15 minutes before she was born, as she started to crown....in the car... :rofl:


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## flower74

DS 1 and 2 completely natural and no pain relief, DS 3 induced due to pre-eclampsia but no pain relief.


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## milf2be

BlackBerry25 said:


> I was induced and had gas and air, but I gotta say, the gas had absolutely no effect on me. Not even sure if the tank was on :rofl:

omg i kept checking too! i still swear mine was just a tank of air!!!


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## NaturalMomma

Me :) I had a homebirth so had no options of the common interventions in the hospital. My MW left me and DH alone to labor how I wanted to and then I gave birth to ds2 standing up in my living room.


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## SkyBaby

Very interesting thread. I came to read it as I am due in a week and two of my friends who recently had babies ended up having more pain relief and intervention than they were planning. This has made me wonder if the drug-free home birth I am hoping for is a naive and unrealistic idea. So I came to read this for reassurance that some people do manage it.

I don't look down on anyone who doesn't and I obviously don't know yet how I'll manage. My friends both had very good reasons to have the interventions they had - I'm just hoping that I can manage without pain relief and wanted to read about others who have.


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## Laughing Girl

Me. I laboured at home, alone for 3 hours, then with my husband for 1 hour, then 2 hours including pushing with midwives. No intervention at all. Fingers crossed for a repeat experience next time.


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## Finsmummy

I had a 4 hour labour with no intervention. It was a lovely experience x


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## silver_penny

I have had two intervention free births, but they were both very different. DS1 was a planned homebirth but undiagnosed breech and we were transferred to hospital. No pain meds, no episiotomy, and had a vaginal breech birth, despite the doctors. DS2 was a planned unassisted birth, and it was awesome :thumbup:


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## sequeena

Oh I'd love a natural birth next time but I just couldn't do it this time. I was determined to go med free but after 36 hours of latent labour (slept for around 5 hours maybe during those 3 days) I'd had enough and when I was offered pethidine I took it. When I was transferred down to delivery I immediately grabbed the gas and air as pethidine did nothing for me. Though all gas and air did was freak me out (was awesome to have when I was being stitched up though. My established labour was only 3 hours 2 minutes (57 minutes pushing) so I hope next time I skip the latent phase and go straight to established (I wish!!).

I really wanted a waterbirth but wasn't allowed one because of my complications. Before I went down to delivery though I had a bath on the maternity ward (and 1 at home) and they did nothing for me so I guess it's a good thing I didn't get to have a waterbirth :lol:


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## momof2babies

I had a natural birth with dd however I was 6 cm when I found out I was in labor with her


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## k84

I haven't given birth yet but it is good to know that people have had good experiences without any meds! I understand they are sometimes necessary (and I would do what is necessary to make sure I have a healthy baby) however I have planned a home birth so there will be no pain meds available to me. I am very interested to see what my body is capable of as well:) (it's funny but I feel surprisingly calm about the upcoming labour/birth experience).

One way or another way to go moms! It must be amazing knowing you were able to bring a new life into the world (with or without intervention) :)


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## chuck

silver_penny said:


> i have had two intervention free births, but they were both very different. Ds1 was a planned homebirth but undiagnosed breech and we were transferred to hospital. *no pain meds, no episiotomy, and had a vaginal breech birth, despite the doctors.* ds2 was a planned unassisted birth, and it was awesome :thumbup:

love it


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## JD'2

i did got my home birth on 13th no gas and air, just water and jasmine oil haha

truly amazing


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## moomin_troll

my first was induced, episytomy and gas and air.

my second was a water birth here and i used a tens machine so some might see that as not natural but it sure felt natural to me lol


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## sam#3

i have had 1 hospital birth with broken waters, pethidine & gas+air 
2 totally natural home births with no pain relief or interventions etc


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## Dorian

My first son was born at 35 wks. My water broke and I had gotten a drug drip (I didn't really know what was going on I think. LOL and HATED the drug drip!). 

My third child (also a boy) I was at wk 42 and was getting dry in there, so they had to induce. She used some gel stuff on my cervix. But I had no drugs/gas/air.

My middle child was a girl. I had no help whatsoever with her. My MW is soooo wonderful! She basically just stood by and told my dh what to do. Dh caught baby, cut the cord, just about everything he could do. It was SO COOL.

I pray that this one goes as well as that middle one did.


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## jennijunni

Me!!! 4 times!! No pain meds, no gas and air (we dont use that in the States), just me!!! It is great!!!


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## Guppy051708

I had one and i highly intend to have another! It was an unmeidcated, intervention free (100%- no G&A, no narcotics, no epi, no tens machine, no assitance,no induction, and no augmentation and yes i am in the US...had to fight the system though!) birth of a posterior baby which took 30 hours, 6 hrs of pushing (no assistance!), and 100% back labor. it was a beautiful water birth and i am so blessed have had it!

EDIT***i did HAVE to have a managed 3rd stage with 10uM of pitcoin, but this is only because i was SEVERELY anemic and i bled out 500 (which is the limit and then things go wrong), so at that point they injected it but i feel that was a very much needed intervention due to high blood loss and i do not feel that should count towards my actual labor, as i was given that after the baby and the placenta....(by the time they injected it into my thigh the placenta was on the way out, but it was needed to help stop the blood).


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## sun

Sorry I didn't read the previous pages, but with my son I had a completely drug and intervention free hospital birth. My son was born at 36 weeks though, so I had to fight not to get induced as soon as my water broke (labour took 4h to start) and to not get IV antibiotics as a precaution. It was an amazing birth - pretty fast, intense, exhilarating and totally out of control. I was due to move cities 5h away the morning my water broke and I was staying on my sisters sofa until mat leave started (that day). My OH had moved two months prior and I had just bought some birthing books I planned to read to get ready! :haha: 

So even though everything around me was crazy stressful, the birth was just the most amazing thing I ever experienced. I can only hope this one goes as well. OH and I are planning a home birth this time around :D He is so excited at the thought of having everything planned and being there for the duration - not driving like a maniac through the night to get there :haha: I'm thinking I will get a tub and so hopefully that will ease the pain some! We'll see though! 
I'm going to do what I did before - and just ride the wave and see what happens! xx


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## ravynravnos

I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol


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## Guppy051708

ravynravnos said:


> I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol

if you really desire a natural birth i HIGHLY suggest you take a comprehensive child birth ed class and one that is not a hospital supplied class! Basically the hospital will just teach how to be a good patient :wacko: I encourage you to take Bradley classes, or Brio Birth, or Hypnobirthing, anything that is good and comprehensive! That will be your best tool! Do that and try to have your significant other attend those classes too!

Also, watch "The Business of Being Born!!!""" you can get it on netflix, and its on youtube.
Get a doula if you can too!

everyone told me i couldn't do it either (im the US, so i know what its like to fight the system), but i DID do it and i even did it unmedicated with a back to back baby that came out facing sunnyside up! It CAN be done!


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## natural_mamma

*Baby #1*, No pain relief meds at all, but as far as completely natural, I would say no, as I had syntocin to speed things up. My waters had broken 80hrs before bub arrived, so the risk of infection was becoming quite high. Because my waters had already broken, I didn't have enough natural oxytocin in my system to dialate me fast enough. I also had the jab in the leg to birth the placenta.

*Baby #2*, Completely natural, no induction drugs, no internal stretch and sweeps, no ARM, no pain relief, and no jab in the leg (so I had a physiological 3rd stage). This birth was a beautiful realaxed 6yr labour.

*Baby #3*, Completely natural, same as above, however is was a fast and intense 44minute labour at home with a physiological 3rd stage as well.


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## ravynravnos

Guppy051708 said:


> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol
> 
> if you really desire a natural birth i HIGHLY suggest you take a comprehensive child birth ed class and one that is not a hospital supplied class! Basically the hospital will just teach how to be a good patient :wacko: I encourage you to take Bradley classes, or Brio Birth, or Hypnobirthing, anything that is good and comprehensive! That will be your best tool! Do that and try to have your significant other attend those classes too!
> 
> Also, watch "The Business of Being Born!!!""" you can get it on netflix, and its on youtube.
> Get a doula if you can too!
> 
> everyone told me i couldn't do it either (im the US, so i know what its like to fight the system), but i DID do it and i even did it unmedicated with a back to back baby that came out facing sunnyside up! It CAN be done!Click to expand...

I've heard about the Hypnobirthing but I have no idea what that's all about. Lol I've read it mentioned a lot on some of the threads. I'm taking a child labor class right now. They went over medications in this last session and it really makes me not want to get any medicine.


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## Guppy051708

ravynravnos said:


> Guppy051708 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol
> 
> if you really desire a natural birth i HIGHLY suggest you take a comprehensive child birth ed class and one that is not a hospital supplied class! Basically the hospital will just teach how to be a good patient :wacko: I encourage you to take Bradley classes, or Brio Birth, or Hypnobirthing, anything that is good and comprehensive! That will be your best tool! Do that and try to have your significant other attend those classes too!
> 
> Also, watch "The Business of Being Born!!!""" you can get it on netflix, and its on youtube.
> Get a doula if you can too!
> 
> everyone told me i couldn't do it either (im the US, so i know what its like to fight the system), but i DID do it and i even did it unmedicated with a back to back baby that came out facing sunnyside up! It CAN be done!Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard about the Hypnobirthing but I have no idea what that's all about. Lol I've read it mentioned a lot on some of the threads. I'm taking a child labor class right now. They went over medications in this last session and it really makes me not want to get any medicine.Click to expand...

Its not hyponotizing, i knw a lot of ppl think that, buts its not :thumbup:
You can purchase the book and not take the class, which would be cheaper, if money is an issue. my friend did it and she swears by it...i took bradley classes and was able to birth a posterior/sunnyside up baby intervention free because of it (and my wonderful support team). ...and yes, why i dont like intervention, is because i know way too much about them :dohh:


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## mummymarsh

i found this thread interesting to read i the most part, although i think how things are woded needs to be watched just to make sure certain people dont com across as saying one way is better than another....

with my daughter i planned to have as much of a drug free labour/birth as possible but having never expereinced it before i was keeping an open mind... i have a terrible needle phobia so wanted to avoid epidurals and any other injected pain relief if possible....


i had 18 hours of labour with lilly and only used gas and air and was EXTREMELY proud of myself because im such a wimp.... Gas and air doesnt take the pain away it distracts you from it (well tries to) gives you something else to focus on.... i rather enjoyed it..... by the(almost) end of the birth i was begging for a c section lol....


with my second labour was only 3 hours long but induced and i did think i cant take much more of the contractions i might consider an epidural which was big thing for me, and i really didnt wanna do it, but thankfully Charlie was born shortly after that thought, so again just gas and air and EXTREMELY proud....

My 3rd i plan to be only gas and air and i like idea of water birth, but who knows :) i will go with the flow......


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## babyhopesxx

With my first i had an open mind about pain relief. I wanted G&A, didn't really want an epidural but thought i would make up my mind at the time. lol. 
I had G&A, diamorphine, picotin drip then an epi so pretty much everything going. lol. I had 12.5 hours of labour and because of the epi i was instructed when to push, this stage lasted about an hour, i tore so i needed stitches and took 6 weeks to heal. Thr epi meant the pushing stage was painless and relaxed but it was more hard work.

I've just had my 2nd and had a completely natural labour. My boy was born at home with no medication at all and no medical intervention. It wasn't a planned home birth but he was just in a hurry :) The ambulance turned up after lo was born but the whole labour lasted about 1.5 hours from my contractions turning painful to lo being born. The pushing stage lasted 5 mins, i only had a slight graze so didn't need stitches but that may be due to not having an epi and my body pushing on it's own. Although the contractions and pushing was very intense without any pain relief. The recovery this time round has been far quicker than my first.

The 2 labours were both completely different but they were both great labours for different reasons. My first was a long labour so i was glad of the pain relief but my second labour was very quick so i had coped better without pain relief. Every labour is different so just go into it with an open mind wether it's your first, second or fifth and just take what medication you feel you need.


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## cowboys angel

My body just pushed on it's own, I wasn't pushing, per se, and I only had a light graze also.

Of course, I had a 4lb baby, haha, but still.


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## ravynravnos

Guppy051708 said:


> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guppy051708 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol
> 
> if you really desire a natural birth i HIGHLY suggest you take a comprehensive child birth ed class and one that is not a hospital supplied class! Basically the hospital will just teach how to be a good patient :wacko: I encourage you to take Bradley classes, or Brio Birth, or Hypnobirthing, anything that is good and comprehensive! That will be your best tool! Do that and try to have your significant other attend those classes too!
> 
> Also, watch "The Business of Being Born!!!""" you can get it on netflix, and its on youtube.
> Get a doula if you can too!
> 
> everyone told me i couldn't do it either (im the US, so i know what its like to fight the system), but i DID do it and i even did it unmedicated with a back to back baby that came out facing sunnyside up! It CAN be done!Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard about the Hypnobirthing but I have no idea what that's all about. Lol I've read it mentioned a lot on some of the threads. I'm taking a child labor class right now. They went over medications in this last session and it really makes me not want to get any medicine.Click to expand...
> 
> Its not hyponotizing, i knw a lot of ppl think that, buts its not :thumbup:
> You can purchase the book and not take the class, which would be cheaper, if money is an issue. my friend did it and she swears by it...i took bradley classes and was able to birth a posterior/sunnyside up baby intervention free because of it (and my wonderful support team). ...and yes, why i dont like intervention, is because i know way too much about them :dohh:Click to expand...

I guess I'm going to have to go to the bookstore now! lol I'm trying not to think or stress about how much it's going to hurt. I've had a miscarriage before and that's pretty painful. I can only imagine how a fully developed baby would feel. I don't want to be scared when I go into labour!! lol But my mind is always open to things.


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## Guppy051708

ravynravnos said:


> Guppy051708 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guppy051708 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol
> 
> if you really desire a natural birth i HIGHLY suggest you take a comprehensive child birth ed class and one that is not a hospital supplied class! Basically the hospital will just teach how to be a good patient :wacko: I encourage you to take Bradley classes, or Brio Birth, or Hypnobirthing, anything that is good and comprehensive! That will be your best tool! Do that and try to have your significant other attend those classes too!
> 
> Also, watch "The Business of Being Born!!!""" you can get it on netflix, and its on youtube.
> Get a doula if you can too!
> 
> everyone told me i couldn't do it either (im the US, so i know what its like to fight the system), but i DID do it and i even did it unmedicated with a back to back baby that came out facing sunnyside up! It CAN be done!Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard about the Hypnobirthing but I have no idea what that's all about. Lol I've read it mentioned a lot on some of the threads. I'm taking a child labor class right now. They went over medications in this last session and it really makes me not want to get any medicine.Click to expand...
> 
> Its not hyponotizing, i knw a lot of ppl think that, buts its not :thumbup:
> You can purchase the book and not take the class, which would be cheaper, if money is an issue. my friend did it and she swears by it...i took bradley classes and was able to birth a posterior/sunnyside up baby intervention free because of it (and my wonderful support team). ...and yes, why i dont like intervention, is because i know way too much about them :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> I guess I'm going to have to go to the bookstore now! lol I'm trying not to think or stress about how much it's going to hurt. I've had a miscarriage before and that's pretty painful. I can only imagine how a fully developed baby would feel. I don't want to be scared when I go into labour!! lol But my mind is always open to things.Click to expand...

totally understandable! I had a MC as well and so it me thinking "what will labor be like" ....they are very different, but not necessarily in a negative way, just different in general, anyways, educating yourself is THE BEST WAY to rid the fear! Seriously, education about a normal, intervention free birth as well as education about interventions, needs, non medical reasons, etc. ...you can get the book from amazon, you probbaly wouldn't pay near full price!


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## ravynravnos

Guppy051708 said:


> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guppy051708 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guppy051708 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravynravnos said:
> 
> 
> I haven't given birth yet but I'm really nervous about labor. All my friends have had epis and tell me that I need to get one and that I can't do it naturally. But there's something inside me that says I'll be able to make it through. I don't think I have the support I need lol
> 
> if you really desire a natural birth i HIGHLY suggest you take a comprehensive child birth ed class and one that is not a hospital supplied class! Basically the hospital will just teach how to be a good patient :wacko: I encourage you to take Bradley classes, or Brio Birth, or Hypnobirthing, anything that is good and comprehensive! That will be your best tool! Do that and try to have your significant other attend those classes too!
> 
> Also, watch "The Business of Being Born!!!""" you can get it on netflix, and its on youtube.
> Get a doula if you can too!
> 
> everyone told me i couldn't do it either (im the US, so i know what its like to fight the system), but i DID do it and i even did it unmedicated with a back to back baby that came out facing sunnyside up! It CAN be done!Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard about the Hypnobirthing but I have no idea what that's all about. Lol I've read it mentioned a lot on some of the threads. I'm taking a child labor class right now. They went over medications in this last session and it really makes me not want to get any medicine.Click to expand...
> 
> Its not hyponotizing, i knw a lot of ppl think that, buts its not :thumbup:
> You can purchase the book and not take the class, which would be cheaper, if money is an issue. my friend did it and she swears by it...i took bradley classes and was able to birth a posterior/sunnyside up baby intervention free because of it (and my wonderful support team). ...and yes, why i dont like intervention, is because i know way too much about them :dohh:Click to expand...
> 
> I guess I'm going to have to go to the bookstore now! lol I'm trying not to think or stress about how much it's going to hurt. I've had a miscarriage before and that's pretty painful. I can only imagine how a fully developed baby would feel. I don't want to be scared when I go into labour!! lol But my mind is always open to things.Click to expand...
> 
> totally understandable! I had a MC as well and so it me thinking "what will labor be like" ....they are very different, but not necessarily in a negative way, just different in general, anyways, educating yourself is THE BEST WAY to rid the fear! Seriously, education about a normal, intervention free birth as well as education about interventions, needs, non medical reasons, etc. ...you can get the book from amazon, you probbaly wouldn't pay near full price!Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! I'm so excited for my boy to get here! I can't wait lol! But I wish the Stork was real! lol


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## RoxyRoo

I had a home birth and used just my tens machine for pain relief, I also delayed cord clamping and had a physiological third stage. I class it as a natural birth but I know others would say it wasn't.

I'm happy with my experience anyway :)


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## cowboys angel

What is a tens machine? What does it do?


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## mummymarsh

it sends electrical pulses through you.... like the exercise machines.. you stick pads on your back....


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## cowboys angel

Ah okay


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## mummymarsh

lots of tecnical jargon behind it which i cant explain lol...

dosnt actually take pain away just distractas you if that nakes sense, like gas and air....


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## AndyyMay

In Total My Labour Was 10.47 mins And I Had No Pain Relief,It was a Complete Natural Birth
I Was Adament to try get through without Anything:)

x


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