# Looks like it's a fight after all :(



## pinkmonki

Afternoon ladies, I hope you're all well?

Well, The house move went as smoothly as can be expected and we're slowly getting unpacked. 

I met with the consultant today to get the OK for my homebirth at my new midwife's insistence and it did not go well :( 

As soon as I mentioned my reason for being there he turned negative and told me homebirthing was a big risk before even looking at my notes! He said (again before looking at notes or checking me over) that he couldn't predict a problem free birth so wouldn't be happy to recommend it, but couldn't stop me. Then he decides to check me over..

He measured my fundal height (measuring 41) and has decided that my baby is HUGE and too big for me to birth without intervention and that I also probably have gestational diabetes! Now by this point I'm literally struck dumb with the utter absurdity of what he's saying to me (The baby really isn't that big, I'd be incredibly shocked to go over 8lbs!) but told him that I was still going to homebirth. He then argued that I could tear badly and bleed.. I said this could happen in hospital too and I'm only 4 mins from the hospital by blue light. He then said that labour could possibly not progress, to which I repeated that I'm not far from the hospital. 

I'm simply stunned that he could decide all of this on a fundal measurement! Told him I appreciated his concerns but that I would be disregarding them. But now It's looking highly likely that the midwife will refuse to deliver my kit this week. :cry:

OH was with me throughout and agrees that the consultant was simply looking to say no and inventing reasons why. I'm completely gutted. I could go into labour any day and simply don't have the energy for this when I should be getting ready to birth my baby. I'm awaiting a call from the midwife but I'm very damn certain that I will not be going to hospital even if that means doing this on my own!


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## SkyBaby

So sorry to hear this. I'm just at the start of my hopeful journey towards a homebirth and have been shocked at how negative everyone has been about it so far. It was suggested as an option by the first Dr I saw after getting my pregnancy test result but the midwife at the booking appointment insisted on putting down hospital even when there was an option for home and I am low risk. The sonographer advised against it saying that midwives would not be able to do anything at all if the baby was born with any problems - which sounds like rubbish to me. I'm starting to realise I might have a battle on my hands. 

I really feel for you having to battle for it at this stage, that must be exhausting and worrying. I really hope you manage to get what you want.


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## chuck

Hun like i said as far as I'm aware you cannot be refused a Homebirth. you may be going against the recommendations of one OB where you birth is your choice.

Try contacting the consultant Mw for your area and go through your thoughts about the appt and let them know you have taken on board his comments despite knowing many of them to be based on conjecture and misinformation and you are choosing to Hb and yoiu expect a MW to be in attendance.


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## MommyMika

That is completely horrible!! He sounds like an opinionated jerk IMO!!!!

:hugs:


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## rachiedata

Argh I've just had an argument with him in my head on your behalf! You've gone to that appointment for his professional, scientifically based, medically experienced opinion and what you got instead was a personal opinion based on nothing!

Definitely see the consultant midwife, head of midwifery, anyone you can possibly phone up and tie down to an appointment with you, and definitely don't give up!!


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## chuck

https://www.homebirth.org.uk/law.htm


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## PeanutBean

Bloody hell. :( What a total gitbag. Ditto what the others have said. You totally don't need this shit now but nor do you need to be delivering with ignorant, opinionated idiots like that. :grr: Do contact you Supervisor of Midwives. Do send one of those letters to the SoM and everyone else relevant saying you WILL be birthing at home as per your rights and they WILL be sending you mws as per their legal duty.

It's ridiculous the fights we all seem to have to go through.


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## Bournefree

pinkmonki,

Glad the move went really well.. One thing down! ;-)

It is an emotional set-back, but NOT one that limits your choice to a homebirth. You have decided that you want one, and you state very clearly that his evidence of risk is dubious (we would all agree with that!) He prob hasn't ever see a low risk pregnancy, let alone a normal birth. 

So what can you do?
1 - Get another appointment with your consultant Obst, and insist on growth scans to verify if there is/isn't a problem with babies size. As fhm, are very scatty and unscientific!
2 - Arrange a meeting with you MW and the senior/or head of midwifery to discuss your care. You have a right to a home birth. Enforce it.
3 - And/Or, you can just let it wash over you, continue as normal.

Me personally, I'd be inclined to clarify his findings, as they are little based on the evidence of how YOU are presenting, but coloured by his "high risk view" - It's a know occupational hazard! You don't have to fight too hard, just stick to "I'm birthing a home and "I expect to be attended" This applies regardless of high or low risk, there is still a duty of care for you to have interpartum care (care in labour and birth)

Keep us updated, Please don't ever feel as though you are being bullied in pregnancy, fight against it - prove you are right, and in the end, just state what you want, over and over, it is your decision>
XxX


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## pinkmonki

Thank you for the support ladies, I think I'll be relying heavily on you all over the next few weeks. 

The saga continues..

I spoke to the midwife this morning, and as I suspected, no homebirth kit for me this week. 

She told me that she completely agrees that I walked into the consultants office with a problem free pregnancy and left having been 'medicalised' to fit his views that homebirths are unsafe. However, the consultant deciding that I may have Gestational Diabetes has tied her hands and she now cannot deliver a kit until she has the results of a GTT. 

Unfortunately I cannot have the GTT until next Wednesday because that's the only time they have available to me, so by the time the results come through I'll be a day off 39 weeks! By which point I'll (in theory) have a week or so to fight my case, get the kit and de-stress ready to birth! I swear I'm so close to tears through sheer impotency right now :( 

I argued that the GTT is completely un-necessary and she agreed but reiterated that she is powerless to overrule the consultants order and that I must have it in order for the risk assessment for HB to be able to be completed. 

I'm completely at a loss now ladies, I really don't know what to do. I'm resigned to hoop jumping and having the damn test, but I'm terrified that baby is going to make a move before anything is in place for him/her or worse, that the results are abnormal (despite showing no symptoms whatsoever) and they decide I need further testing a week before my due date. If I'm being honest, I think I'd rather like to curl up into a ball and have a cry now.


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## chuck

Oh hun try not to worry, you are within your rights to refuse the GTT and still be attended where ever you choose to birth.

It seems having the test and all the waiting involved is doing you more harm than good.


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## PeanutBean

I agree with Chuck. I think you should go to the Supervisor of MWs. She can put out a plan to the other hospital staff. It's clear that the Consultant is abusing his position because of his own fears. I don't think you should hoop-jump and even have the test as it just delays the fight. :hugs:


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## indigo_fairy

Sorry your having such a crap time especially now! I swear they just think women like us who have our sights set on homebirth will just crumble and say 'oh ok then I'll come into hospital... oh ok I'll just do whatever you say, and how high would you like me to jump sir?' It's really p***ing me off, and I think I'll be in the exact position as you when my time comes, as I've been 'high risk' (by their standard) all along. And the fact of them 'withholding' the birthing kit! For goodness sake, do they know what stress that must be causing? 

Just remember what all the girls are saying, it's totally your choice, no one else's and come back here for support to get you through, jeess they don't make things easy on us when we are in such a highly emotional state do they? :hugs: It can only make you stronger in the end :thumbup:

Keep positive :flower:


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## pinkmonki

I'll try to get into contact with the SoM this afternoon and request a meeting/call or something to get the ball rolling. 

I am so bloody angry, and generally want to wail in the manner of a petulant teenager about how unfair it all is. 3 weeks away from EDD and I have to contend with all this? All from a f**king fundal measurement? Argh! 

I guess the plan for now is to contact the SoW and go from there. I think the plan for my sanity, is to continue to prepare for HB and try my best to prepare OH to help me through the first stage and be ready to delay the call until I hit second stage. The problem (read brick wall) I'm hitting is they agree that it's my legal right to HB, however they are refusing to deliver a kit and go on call for me until they have a favourable GTT result. So as far as I can see it, I can only really plan to do it regardless of support and hope that they come on board during the last week or so. 

There's a bizarre sense of irony in the fact that I once said an unattended birth would be my dream birth.. Careful what you wish for eh? Sigh.


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## djw47

I personally would not have a home birth so please don't take this offensively as I'm only stating my personal feelings on the situation, just trying to offer you another point of view. 

I wouldn't have one because I AM terrified of something going wrong so I rely heavily on doctors and hospital staff to take care of me and my baby. Have you had the GTT done earlier in pregnancy? If not, I understand you feeling like it's not a concern, but you really never know and wouldn't you rather know? If you do have something going on, wouldn't you want to be at the hospital so that baby can be attended to right away? I am completely NOT judging any of you, just expressing my concerns. I know you're frustrated because you know what you want, but sometimes what we want and what is best, do not always work out to be the same thing. Again, I'm so sorry if I upset you further, just want you to consider all options with a clear head.


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## pinkmonki

I haven't had a GTT because I haven't needed one, nor do I need one now. A fundal measurement is a completely ridiculous thing to base a theory on baby size on considering they change based on person measuring, and baby positioning to name a few! 

I'm sorry if this is offensive, but I DO know what I'm talking about. I'm not just being an emotional ill informed mother to be making unreasonable demands because 'I want'! This is about a doctor deciding that Homebirths are unsafe because that's his personal view, nothing medical at all! 

As for being attended to right away, honey I hatre to worry you, but during a homebirth you have TWO midwives with you at all times, whereas during a hospital birth you have one with you and with a few other ladies too. So odds are, I'll be aware of a problem faster at home, than in a hospital regardless. I'm also only 4 mins from the hospital via ambulance, again ample time to sort a problem. However, considering I have previously had a problem free home birth I fail to understand why I should be concerned that anything would go wrong this time. 

If you don't agree with homebirths, I have to ask why you feel the need to point that out to me on a thread dedicated to that exact thing? I don't like hospital births,I think they're dangerous, I see no need to tell you that!


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## PeanutBean

djw47 your response to this thread is entirely inappropriate.

Pink, try not to worry about the kit. They can bring one when you go into labour. When I mentioned getting mine as my MW wasn't sure when she'd have chance to drop it off before next week even the SoM said "oh don't worry about that, you only need a piece of string"! Technically I don't even need that given that I'm not tying the cord anytime soon! Given this is all going off fundal height I would suggest that the consultant is actually malpracticing. I doubt there is sufficient clinical to evidence to back up his claims and fears from fundal height measurements! When you see the SoM make sure you say what IS going to happen rather than focusing on what they WANT you do be doing (which sounds like stalling). Her job is to mediate and support you and the MWs so if your MW is theoretically on board and you refuse the GTT in an informed manner then the solution is simple. She just needs to inform the doctor that you are having the homebirth and not having a GTT. You needn't have been sent to the consultant in the first place. The whole situation is ridiculous.


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## pinkmonki

PB you're absolutely right. I'm getting so stressed out at the hoop-jumping and brick walls that I'm completely losing sight of MY rights. I've left a message for the SoW to call me back, and I'll follow up with another call if I've heard nothing by tomorrow morning. 

The doctor was and is a complete dinosaur. He was telling me no even before opening my notes so I knew he was going to find some reason or another to say he wouldn't advise it, I was just completely stunned that he'd use the excuse of a fundal measurement to take it this far! 

You've helped me to calm down some too, you're completely right about the kit. I don't need it. Again, I'm just getting sidetracked with it all. 

As for the GTT, I really don't care about it either way, I just want them to accept that I will be having a HB regardless of the test and/or it's results. I know damn well it'll be favourable for HB, I'm just annoyed that it's another reason to wait when time is swiftly running out. 

OH just mentioned something that raised a giggle though, new team also means a new hospital. I don't have even the slightest clue where the labour ward is! Can't go if I can't find it ;)


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## PeanutBean

Well I'm very glad if I can help with my words! If I remember right don't you have all the homebirth plans from your previous maternity services too? I mean that all has to help you feel confident in demanding your rights too. I'm just getting so bloody sick of the excuses that the medics seem to find to get in our way. What is wrong with everyone?!

Lol about the labour ward! Shame you know where the hospital is! ;)


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## djw47

Whoa whoa I didn't say I didn't agree with home births. I think it's awesome if you can. I said I personally wouldn't but that's because I have medical issues to be concerned about. I asked you to please not take offense as I was just being concerned. I just was worried for you. If you know more about it than I do then that's great I just wanted to make sure that you and baby are ok. I actually didn't mean to be on this thread. I clicked "unread posts" and it popped up. I didn't realize that it was a "Home & Natural Birthing" thread until just now. My bad for not seeing that. I hope that you get to have your delivery the way you see fit and I hope that all goes smoothly. I lost a baby at 16 weeks preg so I am a little paranoid about lots of stuff and just don't want to see anyone else suffer health issues or loss. I just was worried about not having tests done and not finding out things that may help you in advance. Again as I said several times in my previous post, I am sorry if I offended anyone. I hope that you are able to get everything worked out and not have to stress so much. Good luck to you!


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## Bournefree

Pink I totally agree with Chuck, PB and YOU on this!

I had a home brith with my first WITH a confirmed dignosis of gestational diabetes. My consultant recomended I be induced at 40 wks - utter nosense! That was down to policy and NOT clinical NEED.

You don't have to jump ANY hoops (can you tell that I'm a bit insensed on your behalf!!! ;-)

What I'm saying is that even if you had GD, the important thing is that baby isn't measuring off the scale, and you can birth naturally - i.e there won't be any issues with celphalic-pelvic disproportion or amdominal-pelvic disproportion (GD babies are fatter, as mum is supplying baby with sugar rich blood).. 

So what is important as far as testing is NOT the GTT, it is a scan - that is clincially appropriate in your situation. This can be arranged today!! They can't delay you on that one. Also if you do want to jump through hoops and agree to the GTT, then you can arrange it for tomorrow (you need to fast from midnight)... call the heamotology department, you can arrange this yourself, they will have your referal. Change it, if you like.. your need is urgent - they can move faster than this!

But you don't have to do any of these tests, you need the SOM or your head of Midwifery to understand you ARE having a homebirth, and expect them to care for you. It is utterly untrue that they need you to do these tests to obtain a home birth, or have the consultant "sign it off" Could you see a different consultant? I would also be calling the Obst Office and demanding you see another consultant too!

What utter tosh they are putting you through!!! Next it will be the letter stating that they might not have enough staff!?!?
XxXX

DJW.. I understand that your idea of birth has been severly coloured by your experiences, and I'm sorry to hear your situation, but your comments are not appropriate in this situation. GD doesn't cause miscarrages, just fat babies, and Pink is pretty sure she doesn't have it - sorry, if that is a bit frank.


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## djw47

I do see what you're saying. My miscarriage was not caused by GD. Rather a condition that I was not even aware I had until after I lost my baby. I feel horrible that I caused any extra stress for you all. I did not mean to be inappropriate. I probably should have just thought my worries to myself and not said anything. I really do not know anything about GD but they made such a big fuss over it with my SIL that it made it seem like a big deal so I was worried. I apparently cannot say I am sorry enough, but I am and I will no be checking back for responses as so far everything I've got back has made me feel like crap when I thought I was just being concerned for another person. Probably just pregnancy hormones, but I feel that we all took each others comments too offensively and it's best if I just go on my way and find company in which I belong. 

Again, good luck to you all and my sincerest apologies.


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## Bournefree

Dont take it to heart.. noone here wants anyone else to be offended, or to feel bad. I don't want you to feel bad.
All comments are welcome, but you really should have a clearer idea what you are talking about. Lets not worry about it... and you can be in this company anytime. I hope you have a fantastic birth and I also hope you are able to rid yourself of some of the fears you have about birth.
XXx


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## pinkmonki

djw47 - I'm sure no one meant for you to feel like crap, I certainly didn't. But I have to be honest when I say I did take offence somewhat. I created this thread for advice and support in fighting a wrongful decision in my care, not to be told that I am potentially taking risks with my own and my unborn child's health. I am truly sorry that you've had such a horrible experience, however, that is your experience and it isn't fair to judge my situation based on that. As I said, I do not have any problems nor do I have GD, it's simply a case of my consultant wanting to veto my homebirth plans because he doesn't personally agree with them. I wish you all the best with this pregnancy and I do hope you pop back now and again should you want to :) 

Bourne - Thank you :) I'm still awaiting a return call from the SoW, but once I've spoken to her I'll formulate a plan of action. First and foremost I won't be scheduling an earlier GTT, because I don't plan to have one at all. I will request a scan to confirm that this baby is big (Which will no doubt prove that it isn't) and mention that I *maybe, might* consent to the GTT if it shows baby is large.. I won't, but it does no harm to play the game a little. 
As for seeing a different consultant, I think not. I expect I'll lose my temper should I be in the vicinity of any doctor over the next few weeks ;) 

I'm still completely stumped as to how any of this is medically sound. I measure 3cms bigger than I ought to, that's all. On one day, by one doctor and suddenly I obviously must be having a massive child and must have diabetes? It's actually laughable and no doubt I'd be highly amused if I weren't faced with all this so close to delivery. 

The law of sod states that I will get my way with regards to the GTT and my homebirth, but all the stress will send my BP through the roof and start the game all over again!


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## PeanutBean

Are you doing hypno pink? Maybe you could do some fear release and the likes to try and keep the stress down. We all know you are right and you do too so the only fears/stress you are being given is that which has comes from this ridiculous doctor. Some hypno might help keep that at bay and focus on what you know.


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## spidey

fingers crossed this will be sorted out soon so you can relax and enjoy your final weeks of pregnancy. :hugs:

One suggestion is asking the midwife to take another fundal measurement. Those measurements can change based on baby position, the amount of fluid, or the person who is measuring you. If this doctor was against you from the moment you walked in the door, then perhaps he measured you a little large on purpose. Argh- what an idiot!


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## pinkmonki

PeanutBean said:


> Are you doing hypno pink? Maybe you could do some fear release and the likes to try and keep the stress down. We all know you are right and you do too so the only fears/stress you are being given is that which has comes from this ridiculous doctor. Some hypno might help keep that at bay and focus on what you know.

That's pretty much my plan for this evening. Some hypno, low lighting (low lighting so I can't see the many many boxes yet to unpack!), essential oils, a good book and a foot rub from 'he who looks terrified of his newly enraged pregnant wife'


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## pinkmonki

Thanks Spidey, I suspect you're not far wrong. He was definitely against it as soon as I opened my mouth so I wouldn't be surprised.


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## Bournefree

Glad you are formulating a cunning plan!

I don't blame you not wanting to go back to any consultant..and I think what you have decided to do is right - Hey I'm just confrontational! LOL ;-)
Never let the buggers get you down!
Xxx


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## pinkmonki

Bournefree said:


> Glad you are formulating a cunning plan!
> 
> I don't blame you not wanting to go back to any consultant..and I think what you have decised to do is right - Hey I'm just confrontational! LOL ;-)
> Never let the buggers get you down!
> Xxx

I'm usually very confrontational too, but I'm trying really hard to keep myself in check knowing that if and when I get my way, I don't want to have pissed off the women looking after my vajayjay and baby ;) :blush:


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## PeanutBean

Well your OH knows where mine is if he wants some male support about managing angry pregnant women! :haha:


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## pinkmonki

PeanutBean said:


> Well your OH knows where mine is if he wants some male support about managing angry pregnant women! :haha:

:haha: That'd be a conversation my ego would rather not know about :blush:


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## pinkmonki

Afternoon ladies.

I'm sorry for the lack of updates, things have been oh so stressful and busy over the last few days. 

I did get to speak with the SoM the following day and we agreed to meet to discuss my care, unfortunately the only time she could give to me was during my GTT so I agreed to have it done and meet with her there. 

The GTT went well, as did the meeting. She apologised for the care I'd received and told me that I had been failed by them. She arranged to meet me at home today to discuss the GTT results and the next steps in my care and getting my HB. 

This morning I received a call from her, simply telling me that she was coming over this afternoon with my kit :D She came over, complete with kit and 5 large canisters of Entinox and sat with me for an hour discussing how I'd like the birth to go and the 'what if' scenarios and risks. 

She also told me that the consultant I had seen is well known for his mistrust of HB's and that she didn't understand why I'd been sent to see him in the first place. She apologised again for the way things had gone and the stress I had been put under. 

All in all it's been a wonderful resolution to a situation that should never have arisen. Oh and the GTT was fine.. *whispers* I bloody told you so ;) So now operation evict child can commence.. and I can finally admit, I've had enough. GET OUT!


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## spidey

soooo happy for you!! :happydance: It's a shame they put you through so much unnecessary stress but now you can go into your birthing time feeling confident in your body.


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## SmokyJoe78

Just catching up with this thread now - that's great news Pinkmonki :happydance:


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## PeanutBean

Oh that's excellent! She sounds like a keeper!


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## indigo_fairy

That's great news, glad things are on the right track now, good luck with everything, will look forward to reading your birth story in a few weeks or so! :)


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## chuck

pinkmonki said:


> Afternoon ladies.
> 
> I'm sorry for the lack of updates, things have been oh so stressful and busy over the last few days.
> 
> I did get to speak with the SoM the following day and we agreed to meet to discuss my care, unfortunately the only time she could give to me was during my GTT so I agreed to have it done and meet with her there.
> 
> The GTT went well, as did the meeting. She apologised for the care I'd received and told me that I had been failed by them. She arranged to meet me at home today to discuss the GTT results and the next steps in my care and getting my HB.
> 
> This morning I received a call from her, simply telling me that she was coming over this afternoon with my kit :D She came over, complete with kit and 5 large canisters of Entinox and sat with me for an hour discussing how I'd like the birth to go and the 'what if' scenarios and risks.
> 
> She also told me that the consultant I had seen is well known for his mistrust of HB's and that she didn't understand why I'd been sent to see him in the first place. She apologised again for the way things had gone and the stress I had been put under.
> 
> All in all it's been a wonderful resolution to a situation that should never have arisen. Oh and the GTT was fine.. *whispers* I bloody told you so ;) So now operation evict child can commence.. and I can finally admit, I've had enough. GET OUT!

No no no its our turn to say 'told you so'

LOL glad its all worked out for the HB, now you can start operation eviction!!


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## pinkmonki

Thanks ladies, your support did wonders for raising my confidence enough to fight my case. I'm over the moon today and can't stop smiling when I pass by the big suitcase containing the kit (which is zip tie sealed damnit, I want to nose!)

I've been praying not to go into labour lately so it feels really bizarre to suddenly be amassing a 'must do' list. (It mostly consists of sitting on my birthing ball and being nice to the OH so he'll DTD ;)) 

It's also come as a bit of a shock to really realise that there's only a week 'til my due date. I knew this of course, but now it feels real. Suppose I better build the crib!


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## lousielou

Great news Monki! :)


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## Bournefree

It is wonderful news Pink - you are fantastic!!
XxX


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## rachiedata

Made up for you! In your face, nasty consultant!!


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## Bournefree

rachiedata said:


> Made up for you! In your face, nasty consultant!!

My sentiments exactly!


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## pinkmonki

Thanks again ladies, you're all absolutely wonderful! 

Hopefully I won't have to wait too much longer to meet my LO. I started operation 'evict child' in earnest, downing (what feels like) a million RL tablets and EPO capsules a day. Bouncing on my gym ball all evening, making sure I'm active and making the poor OH DTD. (Bless him, it must be like trying to mount a particularly grumpy pink whale!) 

Anyhoo, all of the above seems to be helping some. I've gone from having no signs whatsoever (even BH had disappeared for a few weeks) to having some pretty strong contractions last night. They weren't really close enough together for me to think something was starting (1/2 hourly) but they were certainly strong enough for me to take notice. Full on starting at the top of bump and working down with a band of back ache and pressure down low. But as I expected, going to bed eased them, though I've had a couple again this morning :) 

I've convinced myself all along that I'll get to at least 41 1/2 weeks though so I'm not focussing on it all too much and just planning to stay active and hopefully these contractions will start to become more productive.


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## ambreen359

Good Luck x:thumbup:


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## chuck

Babies waiting until you've finished painted the entire house LOL


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## PeanutBean

Ok good luck! I can't dtd because of the gbs issue, I keep forgetting to take rlt and have no epocand last night I sat on the ball a little while and have hardly been able up walk since from sciatica! :dohh: I think my niggles will be going nowhere!


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## Jenniflower

You're amazing Pink well done!!


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## HopefulKirsty

Just read this whole read! great news pink. I love hearing about someone who has done their research getting what they fought for. That is one lucky baby to have you already fighting for what is best for him/her


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