# Sperm Analysis - 5% normal morphology Kruger criteria??



## noelle1979

Hi all

I have had my DH's sperm analysis back and it all looks above average other than the sperm morphology of 5%. It is based on the Kruger strict critera. I know new criteria was released in 2009 but my FS said that anything over 85% abnormal is sub fertilty.... yet the new released guidance states anything above 4% is fine.

All of this is so worrying - can any of you shed any light on your own experience?

Worried!!!


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## chanel

the kruger is stricter, if they said 4% is fine then it is fine... plus if he has above average number of sperm then 5% of that will be more than enough to get you pregnant but if he had a low number of sperm in total then %5 of that would be a lot less iyswim.

I reckon he is just fine... good luck x


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## noelle1979

Well now devastated. Just spoke to FS who told me that the abnormal is too high and that the ideal is 15%. The private clinic where we tested said 4% was normal - husband gutted and we don't know who to believe... don't know where to turn xx


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## michelleann

My OH SA results showed 25% Motility and 0% Morphology ... yep zero! please bare in mind that a lot of things effect morphology.....prescribed drugs (pain killers, ibuprofen etc) alcohol, smoking not enough vits etc

If you haven't already please try putting him on a multivit or Fertilaid which has a lot of anti oxydents, Zinc and Vit C....all the things needed to produce normal sperms. it will take 3 months for the Vits to kick in .... Ferilaid has proven to boost numbers and morphology by 40-60%

One of the ladies on her has just got her BFP and her hubby had a Morphology of 4% .... she put him on a high Zind and Vit C multivit and 3 months later she's pregnant.

I wish you lots of luck and baby dust .... if you want to chat feel free to email me as we are going through the exact same thing - [email protected]

xx


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## hollyhopeful2

I don't know which criteria my husband's doctor used, but his morphology is 7%. The doctor said it should be 30 - 50%. So my guess is he didn't use the Kruger one. We are pretty devastated. He recently quit smoking and will start on a multi vitamin...I'm considering fertilaid. We've been ttc for 8 months - I'm 39 and he's 35. Guess we'll see..

Good luck to you!


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## Mrs. Bear

My husband's was 4%. My regular ob/gyn said it was a problem but my RE wasn't concerned about it at all. DH cut back on alcohol and hot baths anyway to improve things overall though.

I think ideally it would be higher but with the strict criteria you will probably be ok, especially if count and motility are above average. 4% of 70 million is better than 25% of 10 million after all.


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## noelle1979

Hollyhopeful2 - that is above average on the Kruger model, I just wish they would all use the same one! The specialist that performed the analysis said that I am worrying and not to worry but the specialist sees it as a big problem. I have posted on to a sperm specialist on Fertility Zone.co.uk - I will come back to you. My husband has decided to cut down on alcohol too and I am pumping him full of vitamins. They also recommeded abstaining until peak on CBFM/OPKs - maybe that is an idea too?! I just wonder how many couples do not realise and it happens natuarally, they think sperm quality is declining due to lifestyle but even if the Kruger model is saying 5% is normal - that seems like a very, very low number. Our saving grace is that his total count is 50 milliion... the average is 40 and 49% progressive .


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## sugarlove

Hi we've got a similar problem. Hubby's morph came back at 3%, but count 67 million and good motility. The Doctor who gave him the results back didn't seem too concerned and said that the norm is 4%, so he's just below it. She said to repeat the test, but there was nothing to indicate that he woldn't be able to get me pg.

We then paid privately to see a FS, who said that this is far too low, and that if the next sample doesn't improve, he would be recommending IVF.
We were told the opposite re abstaining. He recommended BDing every 3-3 days to ensure there's always a healthy supply. He also said to cut back on alcohol, and that vitamins didn't make a difference! I don't believe this, so hubby is taking Wellman conception vitamins, and I'm feeding him lots of seeds.

I wish they'd all bloody say the same thing!

Please let me know if you get a reply from fertility zone. Mu hubby is worrying himself sick over this, and it's put a huge dampner on Xmas for us both. He's been totally off the booze for over 2 weeks, but had a few pints last night, bless him:haha:

Good luck
x


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## chanel

funny how the private consultant said you would need ivf but the NHS said you wouldn't! 
to get the best result your dh should abstain for 3-4 days before his test and also bd regular throughout the month to keep the swimmers healthy :D

I recommend wellman conception tablets and vit C for the men.. good luck x

Oh and your DH's have plenty sperm there so no need to worry to much about only having 3 or 4% morphology.. have you been trying long?


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## sugarlove

Got pg fairly quickly in feb, but ended in mc. No joy since then, but my progesterone levels are low and I'm waiting for a lap to investigate some pains.
Cheers for the advice
X


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## chanel

I got pg first month of trying in 2008 but had mmc, just kept on trying and fell pregnant last December and have a baby boy... 

I was told i was in peri-menopause and DHs results were worse than those mentioned... which is why i say your DHs results are really not that bad, after all.. it only takes one :D

PS i was 35 at the time!


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## sugarlove

thanks. That gives me hope :thumbup:I'm 35 and hubby is 43. Will see what happens with his next SA after Xmas
x


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## noelle1979

We had the opposite opinions... NHS told us it was too low and we would need to be referred for IVF and the private said it was fine.. but to me 95% abnormal sperm is too low?? All of the confusion is so upsetting, my other half is crushed and seeing him like this is crushing me. I have booked a private retest, the last one was Sept and he takes all the right vits although I hear Omega 3 is important for morphology so worth you all looking at that. I will definitely wait to hear back from Fertility Zone and come back to you.. when I heard the words IVF I freaked, its not what you expect and you do not think it will be you do you? Apparently there is not much point in IUI but the recommendation is to go straight for the IVF. We have been trying 11 months, I am fine but something tells me that with 95% abnormal sperm I will be waiting a long time! xxx


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## sugarlove

Might give the omega a go too for hubby! You'd think the private would know more about it? Was it a FS?

All I know is that I still got pg in Feb with supposed crap sperm, so who knows?

I think the problem now is more me with the low progesterone and suspected endo.

Good luck
x


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## mrsessex

My hubby had a sperm count of 9 million in October :) 70% motility though and good sperm...but numbers low.

He is a post vasectomy reversal guy :) (OP done in aug this year) and hoping the numbers go up

Our surgeon told us vitamins make NO difference to sperm what so ever... but im not convinced :haha: even though our surgeon is a very successful doctor..somehow i think taking vits cant hurt :shrug: so my hubby is now on Wellman Conception as of last week

We've been ttc'ing 3 cycles now (this being our 3rd) and hope to be up the duff within a year as i fell preg straight away before...so this is kinda weird to me :haha:

Good luck girls..and YES it only takes ONE :spermy:


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## floofymad

I don't really believe the various FS that vitamins don't work. Have seen so many people on here get a massive improvement with a SA after taking loads of vits....


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## hollyhopeful2

It feels so good that I'm not alone!! My dh is also crushed...he honestly thought the SA was a waste of time.....

I've also read that sperm take 3 months to cycle; that something in your lifestyle 3 months ago can affect your sperm now....our doctor also said there was nothing my dh could do for the morphology issue; his count is around 39 million and motility is slightly below average. The doctor stressed that he was NOT sterile...but it would be alot harder to concieve. I felt like I had a punch in the gut when the doctor said he was sorry.

Dh was also advised not to bd 3 days before his SA. We've been ttc for 8 months now. It sucks.

Anxiously awaiting news on you ladies....best of luck!


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## noelle1979

Chanel - congrats... its great to hear success stories. I was saying to my DH, we only know this because we went to find out, I am sure there are many that get pregnant without even knowing this is the case. 

I have been recommended Fetilaid a number of times, Omega 3 oils also Pycnogenol & Lycopene - both antioxidents.

It is strange because my husband enjoys a beer most nights and when we go out he does like a few more! I have been nagging him for years about it and it has finally hit home that my nagging was not me being a woman but for a reason... also read an article about Zoe Ball and Norman Cook - he gave up alcohol and she fell pregnant.. its all about lifestyle.

I will feedback anything else I hear. I am all over the place at the moment, although his count and everything else high, the FS said the words IVF and I went into shock. I just did not expect it to be us and would rather it was me with the issue... I think us women handle it better xx


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## pk2of8

hi girls, i hope you don't mind if i join this conversation. we just got dh's sa results back last weekend. turns out he has very low count. 5.5 mil/ml. :sad2: our lab used the WHO standards??? it said that morph better than 30% was normal and dh's was 36% ??? :shrug: all of this is so hard to understand. we haven't consulted with a specialist yet b/c we moved a few months ago and don't have a new established doctor yet. also dh's motility was 5% rapid progression and 65% slow progression, (so 70% total progression) which put him in the normal range, but i can't help but feel those numbers aren't very good either. ugh. it's all so complicated. :wacko: dh seems to be handling it well so far...he's agreed to try iui if our insurance covers it, but i'm almost positive our insurance won't cover ivf, which really has me discouraged if that's what the doc will recommend b/c we can't afford ivf out of pocket. 

it's just so discouraging to think now we won't have a chance at conceiving without medical intervention. oh, i forgot to mention, i've had dh on fertileaid for 1 month now. just started 2nd bottle. i also have him taking count boost, and motility boost (made by the same company as fertileaid), and flaxseed oil plus a normal multi-vit. he complained at first, but now that we have the sa results back, he reminds me that he needs them! :dohh: i don't know if the vits work or not, but i figure if nothing else it won't hurt anything, and he's getting loads of vit C and other antioxidants that will keep him from getting sick anyway. 

otherwise, he's stopped wearing the sports underwear...trying to get him into boxers at least a few days a week. he prefers the boxer briefs, so we'll see. also trying to get him to stop sitting with the laptop on his lap...to at least have some kind of barrier. that's the hardest so far. :dohh: what do you girls think of my dh's results tho?? i'd appreciate your feedback...


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## noelle1979

I have just read an article that encourages men to ejaculate every 2 days and to eat goji berries. A women wrote about her OH and saw his count on all parameters raise significantly.. worth thinking about. Hear great things about Ferilaid!


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## pk2of8

i've not heard that about goji berries. good grief! don't even know if i could find those here!! :dohh: i'm really hoping the fertilaid will make a difference, but i guess we won't be able to tell for a couple more months :shrug: i've read also that for men with low count, they shouldn't ejaculate or no bd'ing more often than every other day b/c the sperm need a chance to re-accumulate, i guess.


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## Mrs. Bear

pk20f8-I think the motility and morphology sounds fine. There are two different ways to judge morph (adding to the confusion). From what I understand, fast progression sperm are generally boys and slow progression are girls so it may just mean he is more likely to father girls. The count will probably be the obstacle for you but it is also probably the easist to improve. The laptop or anything else that puts heat in that area could definitely be the culprit. Hopefully everything you are doing will help. At least you know and he realizes how important it can be now. FX'd for your BFP soon


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## pk2of8

thank you, Mrs. Bear...that's very interesting about the fast/slow progression related to sex of the sperm... i didn't know that. hmmm...even more interesting since dh himself is one of 2 boys, and his father is 1 of 2 boys. his mother was an only child. dh's brother also has no children. hhhmmmm...something to think about....

anyway, yeah oddly enough the laptop has been the biggest struggle with him. i'm going to try to find him a good lapdesk this weekend, and hopefully that will resolve the issue. fx for your bfp as well...i see you're also in the tww. :hugs: i'm 7dpo today, and bd'ing was well timed this time, i think, but it's hard to be hopeful knowing what we know now. we didn't have the results back yet at the time. if i had known, we wouldn't have bd'd 2 nights in a row, but i'm trying to hold onto a sliver of hope that b/c it had been about 6 days since our bd prior to the first one at ov time, that that will have made a difference in available count. :shrug: i know it's longer than the recommended time for "holding out" but still....ugh....just so complicated.... :hugs:


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## Mrs. Bear

Looks like we will be testing around the same time pk2of8. I am 6dpo today (ff ticker is wrong this cycle). Hopefully we will both get our BFPs!

If it makes you feel better about BD 2 nights in a row - when I asked the Dr in the sperm lab (that preps for IUI and does SA) he said that it is better to get more exposure than to wait when you know you are O'ing. Even if the 2nd time had a much lower count it still puts more in the right place at the right time. Better to have fewer at the right time than to wait and have a higher count but miss the egg.

He also said count can vary a lot depending on which chamber they come from that day (don't know the science of it but that is what he said). My DH had 130mill one day and 55 mill two days later so just bc that was his count the day of the SA doesn't mean it was the same the days you BD.

:dust:


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## pk2of8

wow, thanks again Mrs. Bear! :hugs: that's so encouraging to me... moreso than anything else i've heard so far. i didn't know that about the "chambers" either... guess i'll be doing a LOT more research! haha yeah, when do you think you'll test? i'm tempted to try tomorrow or the day after. (9/10 dpo) i have 10miu ic's...first time i'll have used them. but i'm afraid to do any testing either...hate seeing the bfn's. :-( my "official" test date would be 12/17 or 12/18. :shrug:


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## Mrs. Bear

I'm going to try to hold out til 12/19 if I can. My IUI was 12/5 so that would be 2 weeks. I don't want to see any more BFNs :(


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## noelle1979

Good luck Mrs Bear xx


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## pk2of8

i understand what you mean Mrs. Bear. how long have you been ttc?


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## Mrs. Bear

We have been actively ttc since July but were ntnp for a while before then. I'm feeling a lot of pressure since I already have trouble ovulating due to the pcos and am 37. Plus dh is going to be deploying so I really want a bfp before he leaves.


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## pk2of8

well the :witch: got me today. so back to square one... :cry: i suppose i expected it though. :sad1: eh well...i'm going to make an appt for dh with a gp, hopefully for the wk after next. we need to get reestablished with a new gp, and then hopefully we'll get a referral to a urologist for followup. 

on a side note, tho, good news...dh likes the new boxers. he says they're pretty comfy, and we found a laptop "chill mat" that has dual fans to keep the laptop cool while he's using it, and it keeps it off the "jewels" :haha: so i'm hoping in another couple of months (he's been taking the vits for 1 month now) that we'll see some improvement in his numbers. fxxxx 

i hope you get good news this weekend mrs. bear!!! xxxx


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## Mrs. Bear

Sorry the :witch: got you pk2of8. Glad to hear your dh is transitioning well to his boxers and laptop fan - maybe that will do the trick for you. Good luck and lots of :dust:!

I am still planning to wait to test until Sunday. Haven't really gotten an urge to test yet. I guess in my mind I have Sunday. Plus I really don't want to see a lot of bfns. I have had a lot of symptoms so if I don't get a bfp this cycle then my body is being really mean to me... :devil:


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## Mrs. Bear

BFN :cry: - DH says he thinks it was wrong but there wasn't even a hint of a line and since am 14dpo I'm not holding any hope for it to turn positive. Dr will prob have me come in the morning to do a bloodtest to confirm then we will move on to another cycle. I guess all my symptoms were from the meds :shrug: so I'm not going to believe those again that is for sure.


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## pk2of8

oh so sorry for your bfn Mrs Bear. :hugs: i know it's so hard. if you haven't started af yet, it could just be a late implantation or something. i don't want to give you false hope...i know for myself, once i see the bfn, i just want to move on to the next cycle. so if it didn't happen for you, i hope you can move on quickly and get a positive the next time! :hugs: i found out friday that my insurance doesn't cover iui either, so i'm feeling pretty hopeless as far as the possibilities for medical intervention for us. :cry: i just wish it didn't all have to be so hard and complicated. well, i'll be praying for you sweetie, and i'm here for you if you need to chat :hugs:


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## Mrs. Bear

Thanks pk20f8. Ended up not going to the Dr for the bloodtest. I really think I'm out & decided not to put myself through the needle, paying for the test and waiting for the results just to get my hopes up again. If no AF in a few days I may test again, but otherwise I'm just gonna wait for the :witch: to show. After that I can go to the Dr for the next ultrasound check and see where things are. 

I'm not as upset as I was after last month's BFN - I guess I didn't have a lot of confidence in this cycle from the beginning. Hopefully next month will be my month, I am really sick of all the fertility appointments and medications. I know it will be worth it in the end, but it frustrating and gets old fast.

Does your insurance cover the fertility testing and treatments? Mine covers the testing, ultrasounds and medications but not the IUI itself. The cost depends on the office but IUI at mine is only $425. Not cheap, but lots less expensive than IVF. Hopefully the changes you are making will improve his SA enough that it won't be necessary for you after all.


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## pk2of8

oh wow, that is encouraging for me to hear Mrs. Bear. i think our insurance is the same as yours. i was reading through the booklet the other day, and it says that "some" tests and treatments are covered, but in the "not covered" sections it says ivf and "artificial insemination" are not covered. then there was a new addendum from last year that says fertility/infertility medications are no longer covered, which is bad news, but i guess we'll have to wait and see how that goes with the urologist for dh. maybe they can argue it out and get it covered IF he needs something. or if i do. i'm not sure that i'm all clear yet either. :shrug: but that is encouraging about the cost of iui. i was guessing from other things i've read that it would cost about $1000. that would be expensive, but with a little saving, we could manage it a few times. so that gives me hope. :hugs: one lady on a thread on a different website told me their state requires the coverage on all insurance. i wish that was the case here. :nope:

anyway, i know what you mean about just waiting for af. how long is your lp usually? i hope you get a firm answer one way or the other. it's all the waiting and being in limbo that i can't stand. if we don't get the bfp, i'd much rather just get af asap so then i don't have to question and wonder anymore. for me, every day that af doesn't show at that point builds a little more hope again, and then when af does finally show up, it's just that much harder...


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## Mrs. Bear

:witch: was here this morning, oh well. Already went to Dr for ultrasound and good news is no cyst this month so we don't have to lose 2 weeks waiting for it to go away again. Back on meds starting Friday. Thanks for the support. I guess I am just sick of this being a technical rather than a personal experience now, and it isn't likely to change.

IUI cost will vary by office but the bigger variable is what medications are covered. Some will cover pill medications like clomid but not the injectibles. If the issue is his SA and you are fine they may not need you to take any drugs for ovulation. I just got my set of meds for this cycle and if you add the actual cost to the IUI and ultrasounds it would total around $1000 probably. Check your insurance website for the specific drugs to see if they are covered and at what level and you should be able to get a better idea of the total cost. Sometimes they will cover one but not another. Hopefully you will never need to, but it will probably set your mind at ease to know what your cost will be.


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## pk2of8

well i'm sorry :witch: showed up for you mrs. bear :-( :hugs: i know it's hard to keep it as a personal versus technical experience when you have to deal with all of this other stuff. i have recently been reading the book "taking charge of your fertility" and something it mentioned about "babymaking" v "making love" is that it can be more freeing to think that intercourse only needs to be timed during your most fertile time and every other time is just for the pleasure or intimacy of being with your spouse. that was helpful to me to think of it from that perspective. 

thanks for the suggestions about the insurance too. i will definitely look into it, but probably not until after Christmas at this point. we just got back from visiting dh's family in SC, and tomorrow we head down to Orlando to spend Christmas Eve with my family. it's been crazy busy of course! :wacko:

i'm glad to hear you don't have a cyst this time and can get right back to trying again :hugs: Merry Christmas Mrs. Bear! :hugs: i hope you have a lovely Christmas and that we both have a wonderful new year with big bfp's! 

I'm expecting to ovulate either the 30th or 31st (I think), so i'm hoping we'll get a New Year's surprise! I'm not positive I've been ovulating or that my hormones are all level. i've felt like something is "off" with me hormonally for a couple of years now, but i haven't been able to get my ob/gyn to do the bloodwork. i need to get a new doctor tho, since we moved, so i'm hoping that whoever the new doc will be will listen. anyway, i tried taking soy isoflavones last month, which is a natural herb that acts like clomid. i figured it couldn't hurt me to try it, and i felt that i was more in "balance" all last month, so i'm trying it again this month. i had a much clearer (is that a word??)thermal shift last cycle compared to previous cycles. plus, a couple cycles ago i had this weird thing going on with my opk's where i had like 5 days of positive opk's... last cycle it was 3 days even with the soy, so it makes me think i've got something going on...possibly pcos. i don't know and i know it's not good to self-diagnose...i just feel like something's not as it should be. anyway, i definitely felt ovulation with the soy last cycle, and i rarely (if ever) feel it normally, so i feel like the soy isn't hurting anything at this point. plus, it helps with progesterone, which i was worried was low with not having a good thermal shift before. ehhh, sorry i'm babbling away now. .... talk to you later sweetie!


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## Snowglobe21

Hi Noelle, I was wondering how you ended up pregnant? Was it natural. My DH has the same morphology and we recently suffered a miscarriage before finding this out so we are wondering from others how their experience was.


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## Vinyl

HI Snowglobe,

My DH and I have the same issue. I have PCOS and he has 3 % morphology (Lower than you). My doctor told us that my DH has nothing to worry about and that I just need to regulate my periods. I am in the process of trying to do that right now and its quite frustrating, but the good news is is that my doctor said there is still a great chance we can get pregnant naturally,...cross your fingers for a BFP.


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