# Tips on diet, nutrition and methods to improve Fertility!!!



## Emmi

So after being in the big sink hole of despair after a failed IVF - I was desperate to find help from anywhere and everywhere.......So I looked at Fertility Acupuncture that has been recommended by every man and his dog only to find that as I don't happen to be a millionaire - it's totally out of the question......I happen to think that those ludicrous prices are just preying on the vulnerable......Totally shocking......

So in my desperation - I have just had to look at the poor man's methods to improve my fertility. As far as I know - there is nothing wrong with our fertility except our age - 42 and 47 respectively......

So - my first port of call - Royaly Jelly.......The Queen Bee must be doing something right and Royal Jelly is rich in amino acids, lipids, sugars, vitamins, and most importantly, proteins. It contains high levels of vitamins D and E, and also has ample levels of iron and calcium - so surely it can be doing nothing but good for me!!!! It was on sale at my local health food shop so I stocked up.

Next thing Castor Oil packs!! Now folk from a certain generation know all about the goodness of castor oil and also my parents knew all about it as they happen to be Indian - the castor bean happens to originate from India. So - the castor oil can be hard to find but Amazon and Asian supermarkets should stock it. The castor oil amongst other things helps the blood flow in the uterus and all you need is - castor oil, a flannel and a hot water bottle......Bingo!!!! A whole lot better than spending £45 on a 45 mins acupuncture session......

https://www.greenster.com/magazine/castor-oil-packs/

We have both vowed to stay off the booze, caffeine and fizzy drinks. Hubby's pesky swimmers improved big time by using - 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Natural-He...29771&sr=1-6&keywords=Natural+Health+Practice


The latest additions to my suppliments are also fish oils - all those Omega Oils are proved to help fertility so am giving that a whirl!!

Anyway - I am distraught after the failed IVF and I doubt we can afford it again so my only option is look at cheaper alternatives to help. I can't sit back and do nothing and I feel a whole lot better knowing I can help myself without bankrupting myself!!!!

Please do share what diets you use or have come across. All tips and help would be welcome and I think would be great to share.

:flower:


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## jen379

Emmi, thank you for starting this thread--total empowerment. i love it!! i'm including a link that has numerous articles about nutrition, fertility boosters, and detoxing. i hope everyone will find helpful. very much a common sense approach. 

https://www.fertileheart.com/category/foods-supplements/fertility-food-choices/


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## Emmi

Thank you for the link - it's brilliant!!!!

Yes - it is about empowerment..... I am sick of stats and people's crappy advice about giving up so I need to help myself.

x


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## Emmi

Okay - I have just received my book today that I ordered - 

The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant by Jean M. Twenge 

It does sound funny, informative and full of things that I need to know! So will let you know if it's worth a read or not:coffee:


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## jen379

Emmi said:


> Okay - I have just received my book today that I ordered -
> 
> The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant by Jean M. Twenge
> 
> It does sound funny, informative and full of things that I need to know! So will let you know if it's worth a read or not:coffee:

oooooh! i haven't heard of that one. you must let me know if you like. Emmi, with all you've been through, i think some laughter is in order. it is a powerful took when dealing with stress!!!


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## Briss

Emmi, I agree Fertility Acupuncture can be expensive but you can do acu pressure points by yourself at home, it's free!!! and I am sure as effective. you just need to do a bit of reading and may be go for one session with a proper practitioner to figure out what your deficiencies/excesses are then just start doing acu pressure changing the relevant points as you go through the cycle. Check the fertile sole website for Dr Lewis' recommendations https://www.thefertilesoul.com/


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> Emmi, I agree Fertility Acupuncture can be expensive but you can do acu pressure points by yourself at home, it's free!!! and I am sure as effective. you just need to do a bit of reading and may be go for one session with a proper practitioner to figure out what your deficiencies/excesses are then just start doing acu pressure changing the relevant points as you go through the cycle. Check the fertile sole website for Dr Lewis' recommendations https://www.thefertilesoul.com/

Thanks Briss - agree, there must be things that I can be doing for myself!! Thank you for the link - that will be my next little project:thumbup:


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## Briss

re Royaly Jelly, I bought some fresh royal jelly from wholefoods and I think that's the way to go rather than supplements. still that stuff is terribly expensive and tastes not that great. I heard it's so much cheaper in Germany but the problem is it needs to be fresh so any transportations that takes days may just ruin all beneficial properties. I am thinking of getting some from local farmers - https://www.apitherapywellbeing.co....elly-wellbeing/product/pure-fresh-royal-jelly a bit cheaper than wholefoods. I am still questioning its effectiveness though. Does it necessarily follow that what's beneficial for bees will also be beneficial for human beings? I am not convinced and tbh, I think the best and the cheapest way to improve your health and fertility is just getting more greens. proper fresh leafy things from the local markets. I spend about 1-2 pounds a week and get plenty of it. it costs a fortune in waitrose for whatever reason. at least half of my daily salads are greens (add a drop of olive oil and squeeze some lemon for additional benefits and alkalisation). if you cant eat greens, just add them to smoothies with bananas. bananas can make anything taste good. 

I've never tried Castor Oil but TMI I firmly believe that having an orgasm every day before O brings your blood to your reproductive organs and keeps menopause away! Just look at it as a fertility exercise. it sort of reminds your body that you are still using these bits so your body thinks that it needs to provide proper blood flow to them. Acupuncture does the same thing but orgasms are free&#8230;


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## Emmi

Lovin that - orgasms are indeed free! We are getting back our mojo in the bedroom - it's taken a hit with all the trying to conceive etc.....We just need to enjoy ourselves so we have a dirty weekend planned this weekend:blush:

With regards to Royal jelly - I think there is enough goodness in it to be good for us but I also have manuka honey every day too. Now I swear by this when it comes to being a natural germ killer (I haven't had a cold since I started taking this) and I believe a lot of acupuncturists recommend this too for the reproductive system.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3787867.stm

The other supplement that I have been researching is fish oils - that's been proved that Omega Oils are good for us and fertility in both men and women so that can't hurt.

Agree with the eat your greens thing - I am actually a real veggie and fruit lover so I do think that I eat quite healthily - lentil soup tonight with spinach and red peppers. :thumbup:


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## Briss

Emmi, well done on getting your mojo back, I can totally relate it's so not easy while TTC. My Dh has very low sex drive so he is not much help in getting my orgasms as often as I need to&#8230; annoyingly now while I am in TWW after ET he is really up for it! I told him no cos I am really scared of anything affecting implantation. and Zita West does not recommend it after ET. 

I also add manuka honey to my ginger and lemon tea in TWW! delicious! actually since I started all this mad supplements regime I do not think I've had cold or anything like that. having said that, it's possible that strong immune system is preventing us from getting pregnant as it successfully fights all foreign bodies including sperm. Quite a few ladies reported getting pregnant while being ill so I think for some having strong immune system might be an issue.

I've been taking fish oils (1,000 a day) for about 1.5 years. I am taking some now. I think it's harmless (make sure it's not cod liver oil, it has to be from fish's body not liver)

lentil soup with spinach and red peppers sounds great! I am not a great cook so I just eat salads&#8230;


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## Emmi

We only got married last year - have only been together for 2 and half years so we were like rabbits at first......But then hubby has a stressful job so trying to make him do the bd when all he wants to do sleep after a long working day is just so hard - if it was just at weekends then all would be good with the world!!:shrug:

I was told not to do the bedroom tango after ET so just take it easy for now.

Hmmmm - interesting about having the strong immune system.....But I also think another huge reason I am so healthy is because I have a very lovely little doogie that I have to walk in the sun, rain or snow. I think braving the elements makes you far healthier. Oh and another health food I swear by is garlic - I use it in everything and the qualities in those little bulbs are bionic!

Salads are great and so easy! I am bit of a foody - love to cook and I am determined to make sure that hubby gets 5 a day.....He would eat nothing but junk if he could!!!:dohh:


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## Briss

oh garlic! love it! unfortunately cos I can cook I do not get to eat it very often. I actually think that your strong immune system is largely due to garlic. it fights any infection or bacteria. truly miracle food

my hubby is the same but luckily he loves his blueberries and eats lots of them every day. If only I could make him eat garlic as well&#8230; it's great for sperm


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## Emmi

Well at least your hubby will eat blueberries - my hubby hates fruit!!!! I have managed to get him to drink cranberry and orange juice so that's something!! I shove garlic in everything I cook him so heaven knows if his colleagues think he stinks at work ;-)

As I am of Indian origins - I love garlic and chilli. Another great spice that is know to kill all sorts of germs is turmeric - a proper wonder spice!


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## jen379

well, i'm going to take the plunge in to the paleo diet lifestyle world. yesterday i collected cooking supplies such grapeseed, coconut oil, almond flour. i'm hoping that detoxing all the unnatural stuff will help me harvest a good egg. if i'm actually able to stick with it and i don't get pregs, well them, i'll still have a healthier lifestyle. 

i have to say, last night i made my first paleo dinner using julienned zucchini instead of pasta with chicken meatballs and it was the tastiest meal i've had in a long time! 

i'm really hoping i can keep this up! it is very fun right now though!!


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## Garnet

Regarding the 46 year old and getting pregnant on that strict organic diet, she was only on it for 3 mos before BFP. Also another poster who went to a leading fertility immunologist, she was told to go on the paleo diet for her fertility issues. I think you all are on right track.


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## Emmi

jen379 said:


> well, i'm going to take the plunge in to the paleo diet lifestyle world. yesterday i collected cooking supplies such grapeseed, coconut oil, almond flour. i'm hoping that detoxing all the unnatural stuff will help me harvest a good egg. if i'm actually able to stick with it and i don't get pregs, well them, i'll still have a healthier lifestyle.
> 
> i have to say, last night i made my first paleo dinner using julienned zucchini instead of pasta with chicken meatballs and it was the tastiest meal i've had in a long time!
> 
> i'm really hoping i can keep this up! it is very fun right now though!!

It can only do good things so go for it!!! Your dinner sounds fabulous! I am in the midst of making veggie soup with lots of fabulous ingredients - it's very cold, wet and grey in the UK so perfect soup weather!


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## jen379

Garnet said:


> Regarding the 46 year old and getting pregnant on that strict organic diet, she was only on it for 3 mos before BFP. Also another poster who went to a leading fertility immunologist, she was told to go on the paleo diet for her fertility issues. I think you all are on right track.

thank you Garnet! those stories are very uplifting. i hope i can keep up the momentum. feeling a little nausea and headache today but hoping i can find the will to get through the bad stuff that is just an indication of how terrible my habits really are!


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## Sofaqueen77

Hey all,
Can I join in?
Im 36, and recently went through two miscarriages (July and October 2013)
Im hoping to start ttc-ing again asap, and am just waiting to O at this stage!

Ive changed by diet/supplements slightly.. No Diet Coke, no Alcohol at all, etc 

As for Supplements I take:

Pregnacare Conception
CoQ10
Magnesium
B Complex
Folic Acid

I know Zinc is v important too, but according to the Pregnacare box, there is 100% RDA of Zinc, so Ive decided not to supplement my supplement with Zinc! :wacko:

The Magnesium in the PRegnacare is only 16% RDA, so Im adding in a magnesium supplement daily!

Im not thinking two much about dosage etc yet... Im going to try these at the general recommended dosages for this month and see what happens!

xxx


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## Emmi

Hi Sofaqueen, nice to have you here:flower: So sorry to hear about your miscarriages - it's all so hard:hugs: I am waiting to ovulate after a failed IVF and I haven't got a clue what's happening with my body after all the drugs that are still in my body.....I have usually been an every 28-30 cycle kinda gal so gawd knows what's going on:wacko:

Your pills selection is resembling mine and I have just added selenium - it's a wonder I don't rattle with all my pill popping!

Some superfoods that I have just been reading about that you all might like to know - 

Bananas - vitamin B6
Asparagus - Folic Acid
Shellfish - B12
Eggs - Vitamin D
Almonds - Vitamin E
Citrus fruits - Vitamin C
Tofu - Iron
Salmon - selenium
Peas - zinc (I totally love mushy peas so lovin that it must be helping me!!)
Mackeral - fatty acids

:flower:


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## Blythe

I recently read that's peas should be avoided when TTC. I can't remember why but I have not touched them since


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## Emmi

Really??? That's interesting?? Will have to look at Dr Google:wacko:


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## jen379

Sofaqueen77 said:


> Hey all,
> Can I join in?
> Im 36, and recently went through two miscarriages (July and October 2013)
> Im hoping to start ttc-ing again asap, and am just waiting to O at this stage!
> 
> Ive changed by diet/supplements slightly.. No Diet Coke, no Alcohol at all, etc
> 
> As for Supplements I take:
> 
> Pregnacare Conception
> CoQ10
> Magnesium
> B Complex
> Folic Acid
> 
> I know Zinc is v important too, but according to the Pregnacare box, there is 100% RDA of Zinc, so Ive decided not to supplement my supplement with Zinc! :wacko:
> 
> The Magnesium in the PRegnacare is only 16% RDA, so Im adding in a magnesium supplement daily!
> 
> Im not thinking two much about dosage etc yet... Im going to try these at the general recommended dosages for this month and see what happens!
> 
> xxx

Welcome Sofaqueen! i'm so sorry to hear about your mc's. i've had two myself although a full yr apart. i don't know how you've done it so close together--emotionally, that is. so hard. 

I hope you get another BFP soon and it sticks!!

Just wondering if Pregnacare is a prenatal vit? if only 16%, should you take more comprehensive prenatal with ttc?

I take Thorne Prenatal--my naturopath says very good quality and can get through amazon, if interested. i'm also taking the following:
calcium
coq10
fish oil or flaxseed oil, depending on what's in stock
5000 to 10,000 Vit D (i've been deficient range in past, vit D supports progesterone)
vit c
royal jelly, bee propolis, bee pollen blend
Pregnitude
baby aspirin

and now trying to clean up my diet doing Paleo!!


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## Briss

I agree with Blythe re peas, cant remember last time I had them

There is Pregnacare Conception which is very good as a basic multi vitamin complex but I usually add quite a lot of stuff to it as we need much higher doses of certain vitamins. 

Once a day:

Pregnacare Conception 
800 Folate (not folic acid!)
400 COQ10 
1,500 EPO (before O)
1,000 Fish oils 
1,000 L-Arginine (after O to help implantation but there is some negative research so treat with caution)
25 Zinc (a few days before AF is due)
50 Selenium (a few days before AF is due)
800 Calcium (from time to time)
1,000 Vitamin C (after O to help progesterone)
800 Vitamin E (only before O)
4,000 Vitamin D (if it's not sunny outside)
Vitamin B complex (helps LP)
1,000 Maca (optional)
1,000 Ginseng (helps with energy levels, optional)
Fresh royal jelly, bee propolis, bee pollen (optional)

but as it says in my signature I've been taking tonnes of stuff over the years and cant really say it works for fertility (although my immune system definitely got much stronger). these days I try to chose natural options rather than supplements. I eat lots of greens and make veg juices and drink raspberry leaf (before O)/red clover (before O)/nettles/ mate/ fresh mint tea


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## Emmi

Crikey - that's a good stock that you have got there! Not sure that I can afford all of that so am trying to figure out which ones are really vital......I am seriously poor after IVF and what we really need is a holiday but alas, our pockets are empty:shrug:


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## Briss

Emmi, I used to be obsessed with vitamins and supplements and was convinced they were going to make my eggs brilliant and I would get pregnant in no time. My husband was on much longer list of vitamins. amazon is the best place to buy stuff, so much cheaper than retail. higher nature brand is good but again it's cheaper from amazon. I'd get Pregnacare Conception/ Folate/ Coq10/ Vit D/ Vit E/ Fish Oil. these days I do not take much at all but as I said greens are the best and the cheapest (from a market) and they have all the vitamins you need. add them to smoothy with bananas if you cant swallow much greens. it really helps you cant taste them at all. 

I get my coq10 from here (I think it's the cheapest but the quality is still very good) - https://www.naturesbest.co.uk/co-q10-200mg-p730/ take it together with Vit E for better absorption 

I used to buy Fish Oils from H&B but last time I got it from nature's best and they are fine - https://www.naturesbest.co.uk/fish-oil-1100mg-p516/ 

I would not recommend buying stuff from H&B as some of it is not as potent as some other brands. 

Higher nature's vitamins smell funny but that's cos they are not synthetic and supposed to have higher potency - https://www.highernature.co.uk/ShowCategory.aspx?CategoryID=92 but cheaper over here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Higher-Nat...34029&sr=8-1&keywords=higher+nature+vitamin+e


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## Emmi

Thank you for those:hugs: Sourcing cheaper but just as affective pills are so important. I do go to Holland and Barrett sometimes especially when they have their penny sales - you can get some great bargains.

How are you doing Briss?? Hope that you are okay.


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## Briss

I had my DH on larger doses of arginine to improve sex drive and there was no difference while he was on H&B brand but once we moved to "higher nature" the changes were quite noticeable. I think H&B's potency is not that good so I only buy basic vitamins there like zinc and selenium and seeds/nuts/dry fruit. 

spotting is just getting darker and more brown :(


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## Blythe

Briss said:


> I had my DH on larger doses of arginine to improve sex drive and there was no difference while he was on H&B brand but once we moved to "higher nature" the changes were quite noticeable. I think H&B's potency is not that good so I only buy basic vitamins there like zinc and selenium and seeds/nuts/dry fruit.
> 
> spotting is just getting darker and more brown :(

thats so odd....i still think it could be a good thing...if it was bright red i would be more concerned. that temp leap looks so encouraging but you only have a short while now to find out. thinking of you :hugs:


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## vermeil

I think there is an important omission in this thread - just plain old being healthy! That means a good weight, exercise and of course eating well. I think these improve blood circulation to the ovaries which is a big factor in egg quality. You can take all of the supplements in the world, it won`t compensate for poor blood circulation due to excess weight and no physical activity.

Also COQ10, 300mg twice a day. I know it can get expensive but with a bit of research there are cheaper sources of it. I personally don`t believe the hype that ubiquinol is more bioavailable that the standard coq10 (ubiquinon). Hours of research have just not convinced me. the standard is cheaper and just as good I believe. It takes 3 months to improve egg quality, the time it takes for ovocytes to mature. 

Though like all supplements, egg quality remaining a mystery even to specialists. So many of these are suggested out of conjecture, not based on solid scientific research. Do your own research!

Lots of good info here - read the great article on improving egg quality. 
https://www.fertility.ca/

Research the heck out of things! I know it can take time but it beats just thinking about fertility 24/7 :haha:

For my second ttc at age 41 I lost 40 pounds, started exercising etc. We got pregnant on our first IVF cycle (the first FET from that cycle to be exact). I'm not saying it was a miracle solution but my FS and ob/gyn etc all said it definitely helped. I'm 30 weeks along now :thumbup:

Good luck! :flower:


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> I had my DH on larger doses of arginine to improve sex drive and there was no difference while he was on H&B brand but once we moved to "higher nature" the changes were quite noticeable. I think H&B's potency is not that good so I only buy basic vitamins there like zinc and selenium and seeds/nuts/dry fruit.
> 
> spotting is just getting darker and more brown :(

How are you Briss - I have been thinking of you and have been really hoping that all is okay.:flower:


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## Briss

I agree with vermeil re COQ10 vs. ubiquinol but I'd just add that taking Coq10 together with Vitamin E is important (from my research) for its absorption and as long as you take it with Vitamin E you do not really need a more expensive ubiquinol. Although after being on coq10 for 1.5 years frankly I am not sure it does anything at all. My DH was on it for ages as well but it did not change anything in his SA. I still take it though.

My FS said to us 2 years ago that IVF is our only chance but I did not believe her and went on to read tonnes of books and research on lifestyle etc and made very dramatic and long term changes for myself and DH &#8211; no luck what so ever. I only came close to getting pregnant just now while doing out first natural cycle IVF. unfortunately it is ending in chemical but this is closer to getting pregnant than we ever were. Healthy lifestyle, Chinese medicine, vitamins etc is all very well and obviously improves your chances but with low sperm count IVf seems to be the only real way. Unfortunately I came to accept it the hard way. I am now thinking that the last year I spent on Chinese medicine and the rest of it was a bit of a waste of time, I should have moved to IVF sooner. I am now going to continue with healthy lifestyle, juicing, alkaline food etc for 1-2 cycles while we are preparing for our next attempt. I want my body to get back to normal so it's in the best possible shape. 

Emmi, I know that you are trying to get BFP with natural and healthy approach and I really hope it will work you as it worked for many others. I do not want to discourage you, the fact that it did not work for me has no reflection on your chances. I think in our case it's just all down to sperm quality, no matter how great my body is as long as I do not get good sperm it makes everything else irrelevant. and the main damaging factor to my DH's sperm is his beer addiction which he cannot bit. but even when he did not drink any beer for 3 months his sperm was much better but still not good enough for natural conception. I wish you every luck on your journey and really hope we will hear about your natural BFP very soon! 

I am off for my daily fresh wheatgrass double shot :)


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## Emmi

vermeil said:


> I think there is an important omission in this thread - just plain old being healthy! That means a good weight, exercise and of course eating well. I think these improve blood circulation to the ovaries which is a big factor in egg quality. You can take all of the supplements in the world, it won`t compensate for poor blood circulation due to excess weight and no physical activity.
> 
> Also COQ10, 300mg twice a day. I know it can get expensive but with a bit of research there are cheaper sources of it. I personally don`t believe the hype that ubiquinol is more bioavailable that the standard coq10 (ubiquinon). Hours of research have just not convinced me. the standard is cheaper and just as good I believe. It takes 3 months to improve egg quality, the time it takes for ovocytes to mature.
> 
> Though like all supplements, egg quality remaining a mystery even to specialists. So many of these are suggested out of conjecture, not based on solid scientific research. Do your own research!
> 
> Lots of good info here - read the great article on improving egg quality.
> https://www.fertility.ca/
> 
> Research the heck out of things! I know it can take time but it beats just thinking about fertility 24/7 :haha:
> 
> For my second ttc at age 41 I lost 40 pounds, started exercising etc. We got pregnant on our first IVF cycle (the first FET from that cycle to be exact). I'm not saying it was a miracle solution but my FS and ob/gyn etc all said it definitely helped. I'm 30 weeks along now :thumbup:
> 
> Good luck! :flower:

Of course it's all about being healthy - totally agree! I don't think supplements etc take away from that but just add to it. The heartbreak diet of a failing IVF has found me 14lbs lighter - I have been eating a healthy diet and not overeating on the bad stuff that I can sometimes do. I will never be a high energy exercise kinda gal but walking the dog and swimming regularly keeps me ticking over.

Congrats on your getting your BFP - fabulous news.:flower:


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## Briss

vermeil said:


> Lots of good info here - read the great article on improving egg quality.
> https://www.fertility.ca/


good article but there is a catch, from my reading and research (over the last what seems like hundred years), you cannot improve egg quality per se. egg quality is going to decline with age and there is no way to turn the clock back. You can slow it down though by improving blood flow to your reproductive organs which in turn can improve the supply of nutrients etc to the follicle i.e. the environment where the egg is growing giving it additional boost and indirectly improving its quality. exercise is certainly a great way to get your blood moving but I am convinced that regular orgasm is the best and the cheapest way to get your blood to the follicle and uterus (Lewis also suggest some exercise for directing the blood there but I found it hard to figure out whether I am pressing on the right vein and I just think orgasms are so much easier to achieve, sorry if I sound like a broken record but one thing everyone commented on during my IVF cycle is that I have excellent blood flow to uterus and dominant follicle so I know it works). but of course you want the blood to have the right nutrients hence healthy eating, supplements etc.


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> I agree with vermeil re COQ10 vs. ubiquinol but I'd just add that taking Coq10 together with Vitamin E is important (from my research) for its absorption and as long as you take it with Vitamin E you do not really need a more expensive ubiquinol. Although after being on coq10 for 1.5 years frankly I am not sure it does anything at all. My DH was on it for ages as well but it did not change anything in his SA. I still take it though.
> 
> My FS said to us 2 years ago that IVF is our only chance but I did not believe her and went on to read tonnes of books and research on lifestyle etc and made very dramatic and long term changes for myself and DH &#8211; no luck what so ever. I only came close to getting pregnant just now while doing out first natural cycle IVF. unfortunately it is ending in chemical but this is closer to getting pregnant than we ever were. Healthy lifestyle, Chinese medicine, vitamins etc is all very well and obviously improves your chances but with low sperm count IVf seems to be the only real way. Unfortunately I came to accept it the hard way. I am now thinking that the last year I spent on Chinese medicine and the rest of it was a bit of a waste of time, I should have moved to IVF sooner. I am now going to continue with healthy lifestyle, juicing, alkaline food etc for 1-2 cycles while we are preparing for our next attempt. I want my body to get back to normal so it's in the best possible shape.
> 
> Emmi, I know that you are trying to get BFP with natural and healthy approach and I really hope it will work you as it worked for many others. I do not want to discourage you, the fact that it did not work for me has no reflection on your chances. I think in our case it's just all down to sperm quality, no matter how great my body is as long as I do not get good sperm it makes everything else irrelevant. and the main damaging factor to my DH's sperm is his beer addiction which he cannot bit. but even when he did not drink any beer for 3 months his sperm was much better but still not good enough for natural conception. I wish you every luck on your journey and really hope we will hear about your natural BFP very soon!
> 
> I am off for my daily fresh wheatgrass double shot :)

Hi Briss, until we save enough money for another IVF, we have choice to try ourselves :wacko:We had started looking at the fertility tests as soon as we started trying for a baby as our age was always against us so I feel that we have done everything the right way in terms of not wasting time and researching what's best for us. At 8 grand a pop at IVF I have to do everything possible in the mean time to increase chances. My hubby is a total beer and gin addict but once we started IVF and we had to pay extra to have his sperm frozen when all he had to do was cut the crap he puts in him - he promised that he would keep at it. He is allowed 2 cans on a Friday and maybe a Saturday - but that's it!!!!
I just need to know that we are just trying our best as time just seems to be running out, supplements, exercise, healthy eating etc are small changes that make a big difference.
Sorry to hear that you had a chemical - can't imagine all you have been through....


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## skimomma

Briss said:


> I agree with Blythe re peas, cant remember last time I had them
> 
> There is Pregnacare Conception which is very good as a basic multi vitamin complex but I usually add quite a lot of stuff to it as we need much higher doses of certain vitamins.
> 
> Once a day:
> 
> Pregnacare Conception
> 800 Folate (not folic acid!)
> 400 COQ10
> 1,500 EPO (before O)
> 1,000 Fish oils
> 1,000 L-Arginine (after O to help implantation but there is some negative research so treat with caution)
> 25 Zinc (a few days before AF is due)
> 50 Selenium (a few days before AF is due)
> 800 Calcium (from time to time)
> 1,000 Vitamin C (after O to help progesterone)
> 800 Vitamin E (only before O)
> 4,000 Vitamin D (if it's not sunny outside)
> Vitamin B complex (helps LP)
> 1,000 Maca (optional)
> 1,000 Ginseng (helps with energy levels, optional)
> Fresh royal jelly, bee propolis, bee pollen (optional)
> 
> but as it says in my signature I've been taking tonnes of stuff over the years and cant really say it works for fertility (although my immune system definitely got much stronger). these days I try to chose natural options rather than supplements. I eat lots of greens and make veg juices and drink raspberry leaf (before O)/red clover (before O)/nettles/ mate/ fresh mint tea

Say, I didn't realize there were 2 of these threads! :)

Briss, can you spill the beans on the L-arginine? I've read good things only but is there something out there that says something different?


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## Briss

skimomma, I agree there is plenty of research confirming arginine's positive properties but there is also one that showed it can have negative effect.

here you are: https://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/2009-0406-200411/boomsma.pdf 

You have to go to Chapter 2.1, What can the clinician do to improve implantation, go to bottom of pg 27, "Adjuvant Pharmaceutical therapies" after aspirin is discussed, they discuss L-Arginine (=Nitric Oxide Donor). The article is highly technical but it gives good insight of the whole process of implantation.

" Moreover, a recent prospective study of women undergoing IVF for tubal or male factor infertility reported an association between high follicular NO (i.e. L-Arginine) levels and advanced embryo fragmentation and implantation failure "


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## Briss

Emmi, I sure you've come across this thread but just in case, there is lots of interesting information in here - https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/t...fp-dhea-coq10-vitex-black-cohosh-low-amh.html


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> Emmi, I sure you've come across this thread but just in case, there is lots of interesting information in here - https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/t...fp-dhea-coq10-vitex-black-cohosh-low-amh.html

Amazing thread - thank you!!!


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## jen379

i think we're all on to something wonderful here.

i've been eating paleo all this week and it has been great. although i've tried losing weight or cleaning up my diet for several yrs now, i always given up, which makes me feel/know that i'm forcing fruit to grow in poor soil. yet knowing it still left me unmotivated. i'm so pleased with how it has left me feeling. i hope i can keep it up! i know that everything i have put in my mouth this week serves a nutritional purpose. and, i've been doing smoothies almost every day with spinach, parsley, apples, blueberries, coconut water. just a small glass to give me what i need. 

if anyone's looking for some paleo recipes check out www.elanaspantry.com.


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## skimomma

Briss said:


> skimomma, I agree there is plenty of research confirming arginine's positive properties but there is also one that showed it can have negative effect.
> 
> here you are: https://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/2009-0406-200411/boomsma.pdf
> 
> You have to go to Chapter 2.1, What can the clinician do to improve implantation, go to bottom of pg 27, "Adjuvant Pharmaceutical therapies" after aspirin is discussed, they discuss L-Arginine (=Nitric Oxide Donor). The article is highly technical but it gives good insight of the whole process of implantation.
> 
> " Moreover, a recent prospective study of women undergoing IVF for tubal or male factor infertility reported an association between high follicular NO (i.e. L-Arginine) levels and advanced embryo fragmentation and implantation failure "

Thank you for posting the link, Briss! I'm slowly working my way through the article. Lots of interesting stuff on implantation and endometrial receptivity though I wish I had a MD instead of a PhD. I suspect my problem is implantation (endometriosis) so every piece of information I can get my hands on re: implantation/receptivity is invaluable.


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## Briss

I also had suspected endometriosis in the past, more recently scans did not seem to confirm it but I guess it depends on who is doing the scan. How did you know you had endometriosis?


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## skimomma

Briss said:


> I also had suspected endometriosis in the past, more recently scans did not seem to confirm it but I guess it depends on who is doing the scan. How did you know you had endometriosis?

I had a laparoscopic procedure and endometriosis was found. The dr. excised the patches he saw, but as we all know endo is more than the visible tissue. So sad but trying a new diet feels good.


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## Briss

skimomma, sorry I means not endomeriosis but endometritis!! I always confuse the two. I possibly had some kind of chronical problems in endometrium/lining but no one can say for sure. 

I also had a lap but they did not find endometriosis. I know endo can be quite hard to treat. but quite a few ladies reported BFPs after they had their laps.


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## jen379

so AF came today and 2 days early. i'm too busy this wkend to even find time to have a good cry and my very own little pity party on the couch. i'm so frustrated and sad. i don't want to give up i'm starting to feel old and shriveled up inside in spite of all the good things i'm doing. i always feel like it's very possible for everyone but that i'm always on outside looking in. grrrrr!


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## Briss

jen, I am very sorry about AF. I know the feeling I also just got mine after chemical following our first IVf. Pretty depressing. Still I am not dicouraged and will continue with healthy lifestyle as far as I can. I just got a new yoga DVD and will try to balance my hormones after the IVf with Yoga. I also cant help but feel that things like coq10 or TCM works for lots of people and they get their BFPs but for some reason it's never me :( but i am determined to start feeling more positive.


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## Emmi

jen379 said:


> so AF came today and 2 days early. i'm too busy this wkend to even find time to have a good cry and my very own little pity party on the couch. i'm so frustrated and sad. i don't want to give up i'm starting to feel old and shriveled up inside in spite of all the good things i'm doing. i always feel like it's very possible for everyone but that i'm always on outside looking in. grrrrr!

:hugs: Totally know how you feel......I am having a pity party kinda day - I am just so tired of it and sometimes I just want to explode. Yes - I feel like it's possible for anyone and everyone and else and not me:cry:

It's good to cry and let it out, for me, I am just so exhausted from the failed IVF and just don't know what to do with myself........I do everything I can and sometimes I feel that I am just going round in circles.......So hard sometimes.......


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## jen379

thanks Ladies! it so helps to talk to all of you. i finally got some alone time today and was able to just let it out. tears. then i made myself get off the couch and went and purchased a new supplement to take to maybe help balance out my hormones. i'm so tired after ovulation that i can hardly function which is what has prompted me to do this paleo diet thing. maybe the two combined will help with things. it's DIM. has anyone used it before? suppose to get rid of excess hormones, bad estrogen, for those of us with some estrogen dominance. with my hx of endo, i think i need this. any thoughts?


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## Renaendel

Some great ideas here! Been with DH for 16 years now but life got in the way and so we started trying about a year ago. After my celiac diagnosis 2yrs ago and fixing my food I finally feel like the body is ready for a little one.

The lady who does the Gluten free goddess blog has some amazing recipes. They are all gluten free but you won't be wanting for flavor! 

It fixed a lot of my health problems. Ohh if you want a good starter recipe, try the pancakes!! Amazing!

Glutenfreegodess.blogspot.com


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## jen379

Renaendel said:


> Some great ideas here! Been with DH for 16 years now but life got in the way and so we started trying about a year ago. After my celiac diagnosis 2yrs ago and fixing my food I finally feel like the body is ready for a little one.
> 
> The lady who does the Gluten free goddess blog has some amazing recipes. They are all gluten free but you won't be wanting for flavor!
> 
> It fixed a lot of my health problems. Ohh if you want a good starter recipe, try the pancakes!! Amazing!
> 
> Glutenfreegodess.blogspot.com

Thanks Rena. i will def check out the recipes! i'm noting a lot of changes in this first wk. i'm hoping a couple of months with help with fertility--as i don't have years. 

i hope all your hard work will see big results too!:thumbup:


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## Emmi

jen379 said:


> thanks Ladies! it so helps to talk to all of you. i finally got some alone time today and was able to just let it out. tears. then i made myself get off the couch and went and purchased a new supplement to take to maybe help balance out my hormones. i'm so tired after ovulation that i can hardly function which is what has prompted me to do this paleo diet thing. maybe the two combined will help with things. it's DIM. has anyone used it before? suppose to get rid of excess hormones, bad estrogen, for those of us with some estrogen dominance. with my hx of endo, i think i need this. any thoughts?

Glad that you had some alone time today - a good cry is what's needed sometimes when it all gets too much:hugs: Not sure about DIM but am sure others might know a little??

My energy is very low but I think I am just a little depressed - but am keeping up the swimming, dog walking and my supplements....
My OPK says that I am heading to my peak time (bought a digital one which makes a big difference!!) and so attempting to entice hubby before he falls asleep when he comes home from work :shrug:


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## tammym1974

Hi ladies!!! May I join in here. I love this thread and have found some great ideas. 

At 39 I think it's time to try something other than just letting mother nature take its course. So I might need to change what I put in my body and this is a great place to start.

I keep reading a lot in this thread about the Paleo diet. Is this working for you ladies? I know I could google it...but it helps to have personal impressions of how it works for you guys. This sounds interesting to me. What all is involved? Is it easy to stick with?

Thanks ladies! :flower:


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## Renaendel

I am curious about it too. I am just gluten free, not doing paeleo, I don't know much about the second, but am interested to learn more.

I keep away from wheat, barley, rye, oats and carots for my food sensitivities. Since everything has wheat in it, from salad dressing and your favorite chocolate bar to your lipstick and shampoo it was a huge change eliminating it from the house. I get sick at 5ppm or less of gluten so I probably have to be more vigilant than most but MAN is it worth it.

I have lost 60 pounds. My intestines have healed so I am not hungry all the time. (with celiac your body treats gluten like a virus, but instead of the t-cells attacking the gluten they are dumb and attack your intestines.) now that my body can absorb nutrients fully my bone density has actually gone up and I have so much more energy. Finally since my body isn't on full autoimmune alert more of the swimmers will have a chance to live to reach the tubes.


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## Emmi

Hello Ladies - I think Jen is the expert on the paleo diet :flower:

Interesting just how many things have wheat in it!! You just don't realise! And that's totally amazing about the weight loss!!


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## jen379

hi ladies, thanks for the props Emmi but i'm really just finding my way on this paleo diet thing--eating like the cavemen, lol. www.elanaspantry.com has some really good info and recipes on different diets including paleo. it's just all about eating proteins, vegetables, fruits, seeds (not nuts) and recipes that don't include dairy, gluten, high carbs, or starch like in our man-made foods such as corn, potatoes, etc., as they clog up the intestines, leading to other health issues. 

i cheated a little this wkend with fam plans but paleo diet actually includes cheat meals so you don't drive yourself crazy. i haven't done the strict 30 day challenge and i'm not going to feel guilty about it. i've eaten better this wk than i have in quite a while and that's my goal. i made the paleo bars and had them for a treat every day when i got home from work and planned out my meals ahead of time. those 2 things made it really easy. i'm not hungry at all and my digestion and acid reflux has settled down a lot in the first wk. i put my belt on this morning and was able to fasten a little tighter. amazing!! with AF coming this wkend, i didn't get that huge bloated feeling. 

switching to things like almond flour, flax meal, coconut milk and oil made my grocery bill a little higher but those aren't things i'm buying every week. it will all even out a bit. 

i hope the info helps out i'm just not well versed in it yet--taking it day by day. good luck ladies and congrats on the weight loss and nutritional changes. so awesome!!


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## tammym1974

Thanks ladies...That's very helpful information.


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## tammym1974

I just briefly browsed the Elana's Pantry recipe. Some of the recipes look very doable for me. I absolutely love vegetables of almost any kind so it would be easy to make that work for me. Thanks to the garden this year, I have an abundance of butternut squash, zucchini, and rutabagas. Giving up milk wouldn't be a problem. Now starches and carbs....that could be tricky but there seems to be good substitutes...sweet potatoes, cauliflower, and spaghetti squash which I do love.

It does look like this could get a little pricey. I notice a lot of the recipes call for almond flour. I haven't looked, but I'm not even sure if this is available around here or not.

I'm going to give it a shot after a little more research. I like to be prepared before I start something. I'll see how it works for me. For me, to go "full on Paleo" right from the start would be too much to handle. I'll start small making little changes and go from there.

Can anyone recommend any recipes? Nothing too involved or pricey to make. It's good to have an idea if something is actually good before trying to make it.

Thanks!


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## Emmi

Hi Tammy, I haven't got any recipes but I agree with some things being a touch pricey and about making small changes first!

Some things I have found easy to do - no more fizzy drinks, cutting out caffeine and the alcohol. I eat so many veggies but the gluten free goods etc aren't that cheap. But I do believe in having a generally healthier outlook with regular gentle exercise can only be a good thing.

As the weather gets colder - a great fav of mine is a lentil and butterbean hot pot - lots of veg and tomatoes and it makes for a very healthy and filling dinner that isn't too expensive.


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## jen379

Emmi said:


> Hello Ladies - I think Jen is the expert on the paleo diet :flower:
> 
> Interesting just how many things have wheat in it!! You just don't realise! And that's totally amazing about the weight loss!!




tammym1974 said:


> I just briefly browsed the Elana's Pantry recipe. Some of the recipes look very doable for me. I absolutely love vegetables of almost any kind so it would be easy to make that work for me. Thanks to the garden this year, I have an abundance of butternut squash, zucchini, and rutabagas. Giving up milk wouldn't be a problem. Now starches and carbs....that could be tricky but there seems to be good substitutes...sweet potatoes, cauliflower, and spaghetti squash which I do love.
> 
> It does look like this could get a little pricey. I notice a lot of the recipes call for almond flour. I haven't looked, but I'm not even sure if this is available around here or not.
> 
> I'm going to give it a shot after a little more research. I like to be prepared before I start something. I'll see how it works for me. For me, to go "full on Paleo" right from the start would be too much to handle. I'll start small making little changes and go from there.
> 
> Can anyone recommend any recipes? Nothing too involved or pricey to make. It's good to have an idea if something is actually good before trying to make it.
> 
> Thanks!

Hi Tammy, I've tried a couple of those recipes from that website like the chicken meatballs and julienned zucchini, loved that recipe but i just used marinara sauce from a jar to go with. also tried the asian stir fry. my hubby said this was his fav. of course, he ate over rice and i just ate it as it was. i just used the veggies i already had and only added uhm plum vinegar and toasted sesame oil (both purchased from amazon on the cheap) and it was enough flavor it keep it from being boring without the "arrowroot" and whatever else. 

i think many recipes on this website are made to modify as needed, which is great for me. plus i hate recipes with tons of ingredients. who's got time for all that! lol!! 

would love to hear whether or not you liked. good luck!


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## Briss

Despite trying to maintain a healthy diet and good lifestyle my AMh has dropped even lower in the last 8 months. I am confused. my blood flow to the reproductive organs is very good and yet my FSH keeps claiming up and AMH is dropping down. Is there no correlation between lifestyle and aging or is my body just decided to age despite all my efforts?


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> Despite trying to maintain a healthy diet and good lifestyle my AMh has dropped even lower in the last 8 months. I am confused. my blood flow to the reproductive organs is very good and yet my FSH keeps claiming up and AMH is dropping down. Is there no correlation between lifestyle and aging or is my body just decided to age despite all my efforts?

Who knows - so frustrating! Someone I know has just got pregnant at 44 - she ate junk food, drank alcohol like a fish, excercised a little hey presto....She had been trying for 10 years.....:shrug:


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## Briss

Emmi, there might be an explanation why your 44 year old friend got pregnant despite junk food, alcohol etc when we get closer to menopause we start releasing more than one egg at a time, some kind of pre menopausal thing you probably heard about it, most of these eggs are of poor quality but a few may still be OK so if you TTC during this period you may get lucky.


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## tammym1974

I'm now researching supplements...coQ10, fish oils, vitamin E. My head is spinning but this thread is really helping out. Thanks!

I'm going to check out the thread on Over 40 Natural BFP with DHEA CoQ10 Vitex Black Cohosh Low AMH, thanks for posting that link, as well.


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> Emmi, there might be an explanation why your 44 year old friend got pregnant despite junk food, alcohol etc when we get closer to menopause we start releasing more than one egg at a time, some kind of pre menopausal thing you probably heard about it, most of these eggs are of poor quality but a few may still be OK so if you TTC during this period you may get lucky.

That sounds plausible! But you just don't know for sure - nothing is ever black and white in this game which is why it's all so hard.....


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## jen379

so i got on the scale this morning, first time starting paleo about 2 wks ago, and it's def paying off. lost 6 lbs!!!! this makes me so happy this morning and encouraging me to continue. i don't feel like i've sacrificed anything and i'm def not being radically strict cause that's not in my nature. i feel healthier, my mind seems more clear, and i've had a lot more energy at the end of this week. 

the last couple of months i have been so lethargic after ovulation and i'm curious how this new lifestyle of eating paleo will help. 

looking forward to these changes and hope everyone is doing well!!


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## tammym1974

jen379 said:


> so i got on the scale this morning, first time starting paleo about 2 wks ago, and it's def paying off. lost 6 lbs!!!! this makes me so happy this morning and encouraging me to continue. i don't feel like i've sacrificed anything and i'm def not being radically strict cause that's not in my nature. i feel healthier, my mind seems more clear, and i've had a lot more energy at the end of this week.
> 
> the last couple of months i have been so lethargic after ovulation and i'm curious how this new lifestyle of eating paleo will help.
> 
> looking forward to these changes and hope everyone is doing well!!

Congrats Jen. That's a significant amount to lose in just two weeks. Something is definitely working for you. It makes me excited to start my diet next week...this weeks meals are already planned out and shopping has been done so I start next week. 

Keep up the good work and thanks for the info.


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## Garnet

I tried the chive and cheddar paleo biscuits and they are good!


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## Emmi

jen379 said:


> so i got on the scale this morning, first time starting paleo about 2 wks ago, and it's def paying off. lost 6 lbs!!!! this makes me so happy this morning and encouraging me to continue. i don't feel like i've sacrificed anything and i'm def not being radically strict cause that's not in my nature. i feel healthier, my mind seems more clear, and i've had a lot more energy at the end of this week.
> 
> the last couple of months i have been so lethargic after ovulation and i'm curious how this new lifestyle of eating paleo will help.
> 
> looking forward to these changes and hope everyone is doing well!!

Wow - go you!!! Amazing weight loss!! Glad that you are feeling great - fabulous news!! x


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## Emmi

We had our review yesterday for our failed IVF:cry: but anyway - the consultant said to me that it was as simple as following a Mediterranean diet to improve my health in general - olives, fish, dairy, proteins, starchy foods, whole grains etc.

I am sure that I could be doing something else but realistically - I really do feel that I could stick to something as simple as this!

https://www.patient.co.uk/health/how-to-follow-the-mediterranean-diet


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## jen379

Emmi said:


> We had our review yesterday for our failed IVF:cry: but anyway - the consultant said to me that it was as simple as following a Mediterranean diet to improve my health in general - olives, fish, dairy, proteins, starchy foods, whole grains etc.
> 
> I am sure that I could be doing something else but realistically - I really do feel that I could stick to something as simple as this!
> 
> https://www.patient.co.uk/health/how-to-follow-the-mediterranean-diet

that must be hard Emmi to sort of relive and think about. very heartbreaking and i am so sorry for what you are going through. :hugs:

i'm going to check out your link too. yummy food from the earth! 

we are going to get there and all these new changes are going to pay off!!:happydance:


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## Emmi

jen379 said:


> Emmi said:
> 
> 
> We had our review yesterday for our failed IVF:cry: but anyway - the consultant said to me that it was as simple as following a Mediterranean diet to improve my health in general - olives, fish, dairy, proteins, starchy foods, whole grains etc.
> 
> I am sure that I could be doing something else but realistically - I really do feel that I could stick to something as simple as this!
> 
> https://www.patient.co.uk/health/how-to-follow-the-mediterranean-diet
> 
> that must be hard Emmi to sort of relive and think about. very heartbreaking and i am so sorry for what you are going through. :hugs:
> 
> i'm going to check out your link too. yummy food from the earth!
> 
> we are going to get there and all these new changes are going to pay off!!:happydance:Click to expand...

Thank you Jen:hugs: I have turned a corner from the crying as I have to look forward in my conception journey and getting depressed is not going to help. It was so hard going back to the clinic as that had represented hope and then to go back after a failure was so hard:cry: But if we want - we are good to go again January - we have to raise the money but I need to feel like myself again and I am sure Christmas will help. 

But in the meantime - we are giving it a good shot on our own and yes, food from the earth looks and taste good.:happydance:


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## Briss

Emmi, did they explain why they think your cycle failed and what they can do to make it work next time?

I personally think the Mediterranean Diet is the best! just so healthy and balanced.


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> Emmi, did they explain why they think your cycle failed and what they can do to make it work next time?
> 
> I personally think the Mediterranean Diet is the best! just so healthy and balanced.

They think that the protocol was right for me which I think too - 14 mature eggs was much more that they expected for a woman my age - it was just about the quality of the embryos - could be better next time or could be worse - they just don't know.

But we are of the thinking that if we don't try, we will never know. Just a shame about the cost - it isn't cheap:wacko:


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## Briss

Emmi, did they specify whether it was the quality of the egg or the sperm that was the issue?


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## Emmi

Briss said:


> Emmi, did they specify whether it was the quality of the egg or the sperm that was the issue?

They couldn't pin point which - the sperm quality was good and so was the egg so they couldn't say.... As they can't say exactly why - we will just have to keep trying everything to keep our fertility to the optimum.


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