# Ins and Outs of Circumcision?



## mom-on-8/2009

I don't even know if I'm on team blue or not yet, but, it's something that has caught my attention. What have you girls found out or know from experience with your son(s) you already have or from OH/DH's thoughts?

Thanks!


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## Stanley

Apparently circumcised boys/men have a slightly lower chance of infection and STD's, plus a significantly lower chance of contracting HIV. 
There was a study on it in Men's Health the other month that I found informative.
https://www.menshealth.com/cda/arti...8cd36265f1f110VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=3


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## Monkeh

How come there's less chance of std's? That strikes me as a bit odd and unbelieveble. Would be interesting to see the evidence of this though.

(I have no experience with anything to do with circumcision btw, I just stumbled across this thread and thought that point made above was interesting. I personally am against circumcision as I see no need for it if the boy is taught personal hygeine. But my opinion doesn't matter here and I won't judge. Just curious about the std thing)


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## Stanley

There is a lower chance of some STD's such as HPV (which can cause cervical cancer and genital warts). There is also mixed evidence regarding Syphilis. Basically what they have found is that among circumcised men, after taking into account number of sexual partners and safe-sex practices, the rate of transmission is reduced by 35% (HPV) and 28% (genital warts). The rate of HIV, especially in Africa, is drastically reduced for circumcised men. They aren't sure exactly why this occurs, but are doing research into the fact that the foreskin has a different type of cells which may be more susceptible to these infections. 
They do note, however, that this research is not widespread enough that they would recommend circumcision for infants.


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## mrscookie

Stanley said:


> There is a lower chance of some STD's such as HPV (which can cause cervical cancer and genital warts). There is also mixed evidence regarding Syphilis. Basically what they have found is that among circumcised men, after taking into account number of sexual partners and safe-sex practices, the rate of transmission is reduced by 35% (HPV) and 28% (genital warts). The rate of HIV, especially in Africa, is drastically reduced for circumcised men. They aren't sure exactly why this occurs, but are doing research into the fact that the foreskin has a different type of cells which may be more susceptible to these infections.
> They do note, however, that this research is not widespread enough that they would recommend circumcision for infants.

It would be interesting to read this information for myself, do you have a link?



I do find it hard to believe, but there you have it.. Hmm.....


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## sam's mum

melbo said:


> Stanley said:
> 
> 
> There is a lower chance of some STD's such as HPV (which can cause cervical cancer and genital warts). There is also mixed evidence regarding Syphilis. Basically what they have found is that among circumcised men, after taking into account number of sexual partners and safe-sex practices, the rate of transmission is reduced by 35% (HPV) and 28% (genital warts). The rate of HIV, especially in Africa, is drastically reduced for circumcised men. They aren't sure exactly why this occurs, but are doing research into the fact that the foreskin has a different type of cells which may be more susceptible to these infections.
> They do note, however, that this research is not widespread enough that they would recommend circumcision for infants.
> 
> It would be interesting to read this information for myself, do you have a link?Click to expand...

I was going to ask the same...wasn't aware that figures like that had been published - I'd be interested to read it.

Sam wasn't circumcised though, and if we have another boy he won't be either. Safe sex and proper hygiene is surely all that's needed even if circumcision would reduce the risk of STDs - that's not a risk that needs to be taken anyway


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## NickyT75

Oh dear not another circumcision thread :(

im off before it turns into a full scale riot :argh:


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## mrscookie

NickyT75 said:


> Oh dear not another circumcision thread :(
> 
> im off before it turns into a full scale riot :argh:

:dohh:
lol I was thinking the same thing!


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## sam's mum

:lol: Nicky. I think I'll join you... x


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## leeanne

sam's mum said:


> :lol: Nicky. I think I'll join you... x

I'm coming too! LOL


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## Lu28

leeanne said:


> sam's mum said:
> 
> 
> :lol: Nicky. I think I'll join you... x
> 
> I'm coming too! LOLClick to expand...

I was thinking exactly the same thing! :rofl:


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## CamoQueen

I'm not sure if you want pros/cons or what the experience is like or what...

But DH is circumcized and no, he doesn't have any problems with lack of sensation or anything like that. Our son is also circumcized for religious reasons. A day after he was born, they took him away and did the circumcision; he was gone for about 45 minutes. His poor little winkie was red and we had to keep it coated with vaseline until it healed, which is did about 5 or 6 days later. Not a big ordeal or anything. I just hope he doesn't mind it when he gets older!


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## Stanley

I posted a link to the men's health article that draws on these studies in another post. If you are interested in seeing more, just search 'Circumcision and STD's' in Google. Look in the scholarly articles section and there will show a number of studies that have been conducted.
I don't want to start a debate or anything, just thought the findings were interesting.


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## starah

mom-on-8/2009 - I don't want to get into the debate either, but I recommend searching circumcision in the search part of BnB. You'll see this has been asked a few times before, and has brought on a heated debate, but it should answer all of your questions.


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## Plus2

I plan on circumcising my little boy when he is born.


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## kitty_kitty

If you are in UK most PCT's do not fund circumcision on the NHS unless there is a clinical need. 

Religious belief is not a clinical need.

There are alot a private clinics and some GP's can do it but they will charge as it not part of NHS work

I think Birmingham do if the boy is unedr 2 months but i know Bradford now do not (i know cos i work from Bradford PCT and have just dealt with an issue)


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## Leanne&Bump..x

i personally see it as extremely unneccasary unless there is medical problems. each to their own though.


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## Monkeh

Leanne&Bump..x said:


> each to their own though.

Exactly. It should be up to the individual to decide. As in, the person who is getting it done. I don't think parents can really decide when it comes to cutting a part of their son's penis off.

*runs away* :lol:


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## Aidedhoney

Not for me im afraid unless for medical reasons but each to their own. xxx


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## NickyT75

LOl @ Monkeh :rofl:

im amazed nobody else has said MUCH worse than you on the subject hun

we are all being very restrained IMO x


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## coccyx

Cruel and usually unnecessary. Surely boys can be taught basic hygiene! Wear a condom to reduce chance of stds and hiv. As for wanting to be the same as their father!!! Nonsense, we don't chop off other body parts so we are the same.


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## Plus2

coccyx said:


> Cruel and usually unnecessary. Surely boys can be taught basic hygiene! Wear a condom to reduce chance of stds and hiv. As for wanting to be the same as their father!!! Nonsense, we don't chop off other body parts so we are the same.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion!!


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## NoSpringChick

I saw a programme about men suing over being circumcised as obviously it is without their permission when they are babies.

I dont really have any views on it cos i am a girl! But my dad is and my hubby thinks its barbaric.


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## mom-on-8/2009

thanks girls for the input


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## notquite

Ahhh don't want to get into a big argument, but just will share my small bit of knowledge/experience with it!!

Of course I've heard about the hygiene stuff etc.... All I really know is that DB's ex-nephews (from his previous marriage) had to have circumcision performed at ages 10 and 7, because they didn't have it done as infants, and it was causing all sorts of health problems for them. I have a feeling it was much more traumatic at this age, something they will remember forever, than if it had been done at birth.


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## Monkeh

I do think foreskin-related health problems are in the minority though. I'm sure we're all aware that problems can arise, just as they can with, well, anything really, but cutting off a piece of a baby's penis has to be horribly traumatic and not totally necessary. I totally fail to see any reason behind it other than religious reason (which I still don't agree with, but I don't understand the concept of religion at all so I won't go into that!). Hygeine-wise, if the boy is taught how to wash, then whats the problem? As for std's, use a condom! 

Until someone comes out and says 'It needs to be done because it 100% prevents [enter fatal/very serious condition here]' then I deem it completely unneccesary, cruel, and I can't understand how anyone could put their newborn through that agony.


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## BurtonBaby

I had no idea this was such a heated topic. I think the views vary greatly from Europe to the US. Here it is very standard, and is actually kinda seen as odd (at least from what I've experienced/heard) if a man isn't circumcised. I'm so glad I had a girl and didn't have to make that decision, but this time if its a boy, I'm pretty sure my DH will insist that he is circumcised. My DH is and actually every penis (not that there have been that many lol) that I have seen except for one (from the UK) was circumcised. It is a very personal choice, and I think we all have to respect a difference of opinion/religion/culture here.


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## NoSpringChick

Hmmm yeh you say it's a very personal choice but the baby/person isnt getting the choice. I think herein lies the problem for some. 

I actually only thought Jews did it for religious reasons, I am surprised that is more common than it is.


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## Pyrrhic

I was quite amazed to find out how often it is done in the US. Over here if you asked for your child to be cut after birth I think they would look at you like you were mental :lol: At least at my hospital they would have.

It's really not something I support.


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## MaryJ

Here's what I know:

There are studies that show circumcision reduces the rate of STDs. The argument against that study is that STDs are often the result of lifestyle choices and if a man practices safe sex then he shouldn't have to worry about STDs.

There is some evidence that shows uncirc'ed boys are more prone to urinary tract infections. There are also studies that disprove this. 

In the Bible - for every verse that says you must circumcise there is another that says you don't have to. 

My opinion of all the research: :shrug::roll: It all just seems to support the viewpoints of the person conducting the research.

These 2 websites have TONS of information. Hope they're ok to post. I'm trying to be unbiased and provide both sides. 

For Pro Circ info:
https://www.circlist.com/resources/resources.html


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## BurtonBaby

NoSpringChick said:


> Hmmm yeh you say it's a very personal choice but the baby/person isnt getting the choice. I think herein lies the problem for some.
> 
> I actually only thought Jews did it for religious reasons, I am surprised that is more common than it is.

See I think this is where the respect of differences would come in. Everyone has their own opinion, and no one is going to tell someone else what to do with their child. Just as I'm sure many women would not want to be told what to do with their own. There are so many heated topics that come up, where hurtful things can be said. With such a large forum like this, we have to be tactful with how we say things. And like I said, if this LO is a boy, we will probably circumcise him, because that is what is customary for us. We are not Jewish, and I dont think anyone should be made to feel guilty for decisions they make.


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## Plus2

NoSpringChick said:


> I actually only thought Jews did it for religious reasons, I am surprised that is more common than it is.

Muslims also circumcise for religious reasons.


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## Pink_Witch

CamoQueen said:


> Not a big ordeal or anything.

no not for you,but you havent just had your bits chopped at causing you pain and you dont know why!!




CamoQueen said:


> I just hope he doesn't mind it when he gets older!

tough if he does tho isnt it really, that choice has been taken away from him!!

IMO it is barbaric and unnecessary-i have 3 boys and not one of them have ever had problems with infections or anything, surely its better to teach good hygeine than chop bits off!!


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## x-amy-x

I do not agree with circumcision but i was reading this article from the BBC the other day

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7960798.stm


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## MaryJ

BurtonBaby said:


> The way I see it is that you will chose to circumcise if you have a boy because you feel that is what will be best for yours. I chose not to circumcise because it's what I felt best for mine. We both make a different decision for what we hope to be the best for our child. That, in my mind, makes us both right.


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## NoSpringChick

BurtonBaby said:


> NoSpringChick said:
> 
> 
> Hmmm yeh you say it's a very personal choice but the baby/person isnt getting the choice. I think herein lies the problem for some.
> 
> I actually only thought Jews did it for religious reasons, I am surprised that is more common than it is.
> 
> See I think this is where the respect of differences would come in. Everyone has their own opinion, and no one is going to tell someone else what to do with their child. Just as I'm sure many women would not want to be told what to do with their own. There are so many heated topics that come up, where hurtful things can be said. With such a large forum like this, we have to be tactful with how we say things. And like I said, if this LO is a boy, we will probably circumcise him, because that is what is customary for us. We are not Jewish, and I dont think anyone should be made to feel guilty for decisions they make.Click to expand...

 
I would hardly say i've offended anyone, but when you see grown men crying on the tv over being circumsiced as babies then for someone like me who doesnt have any religious views at all then you have to wonder.

Just do a google search of 'circumsised suing' - the practice can land you in court now, but I am sure these cases are really really rare.

For me personally I wouldnt do anything to 'modify' my baby, i wouldnt get her ears pierced for example (another heated topic!), but then I am not religious and wouldnt do things just because it was expected, and I would expect the same respect for having no customs to follow.

I did however get my cats balls chopped off :rofl:


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## mom-on-8/2009

thanks for all the thoughts


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## Twiglet

The only circumcisions I've ever come across has been one of my brothers (who's now 18 ) when he was around 6 as he had an extra piece of skin meaning that he couldn't pull his skin back...therefore the doctor had no other real option as it was something that couldn't be solved by a simple little snip and those for religious purposes. 

Personally I think if its for a medical reason then fine go ahead...if its for a religious purpose same...but if its for better hygiene etc leave it till they're old enough to make their own decision.


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## Dukechick

coccyx said:


> Cruel and usually unnecessary. Surely boys can be taught basic hygiene! Wear a condom to reduce chance of stds and hiv. As for wanting to be the same as their father!!! Nonsense, we don't chop off other body parts so we are the same.

That pretty much sums up my opinion as well.

I don't agree with it. My DH isn't, and I just don't see the need in doing it. We both agree on it, so that's all that matters. He'll show Bambino how to clean it, and take care of himself. I don't think there is a reason to do it. That's my 2 cents, and I ain't afraid to say it!

We all have our own opinions, and everyone should respect each others!


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## Vestirse

People mentioned how prevalent it is in the US. I'm from the US and I don't get it. What is the actual point of circumcision? Does anyone know how or why the practice actually started?


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## CamoQueen

Pink_Witch said:


> CamoQueen said:
> 
> 
> Not a big ordeal or anything.
> 
> no not for you,but you havent just had your bits chopped at causing you pain and you dont know why!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CamoQueen said:
> 
> 
> I just hope he doesn't mind it when he gets older!Click to expand...
> 
> tough if he does tho isnt it really, that choice has been taken away from him!!
> 
> IMO it is barbaric and unnecessary-i have 3 boys and not one of them have ever had problems with infections or anything, surely its better to teach good hygeine than chop bits off!!Click to expand...

You're right, it is just your OPINION. And in _my_ opinion, my highly personal decision to circumcise my son is none of your business. 

I realize a lot of people are against circumcision, but I don't think a lot of people on this thread realize how offensive they are to those who choose to circumcise. I'm not saying you have to tell me that you agree with my decisions and think I'm doing great -- I don't honestly care what you think about my choice to circumcise -- but I do think it's rude to suggest people that circumcise are tantamount to child abusers. Mellow your language, for Christ's sake. You might disagree with circumcision but that's no reason to lose your manners.

Sorry if I'm a little short tempered. But seriously, geez. I know I'm not among the majority so I feel I have to stand up for us circumcisers.


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## cupcake

oh my gosh this has got quite a lot of response hey... well I was around for the other circumcision threads and am totally uninterested in getting into a debate. I will just tell you my experience.. my son is circumcised. It did not appear to hurt him at all, it was done when he was 8 days old by a professional, not in the hospital. The person who did the circumcison sprayed a little numbing spray before he began, I gave my baby a small dose of baby tylenol before the event just incase he should be uncomfortable. He has a little teeny bandage on for a week, which fell off on its own as it was supposed to. I was told by the professional not to bathe the baby for two days just to give the cut time to heal, and to use an anti-septic cream on the area. I also put some liquid drops of antisceptic into his bath water for the first week. My baby did not cry or show any signs of discomfort after his circumcision, I had no need at all to give him any further pain meds (probably didnt need to give in the first place). The cut healed beautifully, and all was well. My advice if you decide to circumcise is make sure it is done in a sterile environment ie the hospital and that you keep the area extra clean for the first week, and the diaper not too tight. Hope my info was helpful. Either way you decide its your choice and although there is much heated debate over the issue, you are free to decide whats right for you!


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## mom-on-8/2009

thanks!


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## Monkeh

CamoQueen said:


> I don't think a lot of people on this thread realize how offensive they are to those who choose to circumcise.

(not trying to argue here btw)

I think that no matter what is said on this topic, someone is going to be offended. I fully understand that some of those who choose to circumcise are offended when those who don't agree with it come on and post their opinion.

Likewise, some of those who do not agree with circumcision are equally as offended when those who do agree with it come on posting their opinion.

It's always going to be a heated topic and I think everyone should be aware that there's likely to be something they find offensive in threads like this. 

Maybe something to think about before clicking to read the thread.


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## doumauk

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when I am called cruel for doing something for religious reasons, that is not on to be honest. My son is very very very loved and has never ever come to any harm. He is treated 100% correctly. I am a very good mother IMO and if I knew that circumcising him was going to put him through sheer agony then yes I might think twice but it doesnt. It has nothing to do with lowering the chances of stds and infections etc. That is our job as mothers to teach our sons to be clean and not put it around like animals. It is all to easy to get defensive and start offending people, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think some people have gone way to far on this thread.


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## polo_princess

Ladies if your going to debate this subject please remember to keep it on a civil note!!


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## Vickie

Pink_Witch said:


> CamoQueen said:
> 
> 
> Not a big ordeal or anything.
> 
> no not for you,but you havent just had your bits chopped at causing you pain and you dont know why!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CamoQueen said:
> 
> 
> I just hope he doesn't mind it when he gets older!Click to expand...
> 
> tough if he does tho isnt it really, that choice has been taken away from him!!
> 
> IMO it is barbaric and unnecessary-i have 3 boys and not one of them have ever had problems with infections or anything, surely its better to teach good hygeine than chop bits off!!Click to expand...

I think that is uncalled for. Let's keep in mind that there are women from all over the world on this board, each with their own cultural and religious beliefs.


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## ahava

I am jewish and we automatically circumsise boys. ... I do beleive its healthier and cleaner...


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## hypnorm

Having watched various vids on it i would NEVER do it to one of my children, only for medical reasons.
If they werent meant to have a foreskin then they wouldn't have been born with it. IMO.


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## Plus2

CamoQueen said:


> You're right, it is just your OPINION. And in _my_ opinion, my highly personal decision to circumcise my son is none of your business.
> 
> I realize a lot of people are against circumcision, but I don't think a lot of people on this thread realize how offensive they are to those who choose to circumcise. I'm not saying you have to tell me that you agree with my decisions and think I'm doing great -- I don't honestly care what you think about my choice to circumcise -- but I do think it's rude to suggest people that circumcise are tantamount to child abusers. Mellow your language, for Christ's sake. You might disagree with circumcision but that's no reason to lose your manners.
> 
> Sorry if I'm a little short tempered. But seriously, geez. I know I'm not among the majority so I feel I have to stand up for us circumcisers.

Well said :thumpup:


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## Aria

Question:
What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?

Answer:
When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation. 

Just food for thought.


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## coccyx

Completely agree Aria


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## nikky0907

Aria said:


> Question:
> What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?
> 
> Answer:
> When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation.
> 
> Just food for thought.

How can you even compare the two?

A man living without the foreskin on his penis lives a normal, healthy, sexually satisfying life.
I'm sorry I don't know about you, but my clitoris is very much important to me.

It's two different procedures, two completely different motives.

Female mutilation is cutting of a woman's clitoris so she can never orgasm since it's only a privilage for the man in societies where a woman is highly degrated.
Male circumcision is cutting of foreskin which technically has no purpose and it's a matter of hygiene and cleanliness.

About 40% of women DIE as result of this mutilation.


If I ever have a son he will get circumcized. Honestly thats my business and my culture and if someone doesn't have the manners to respect different views thats their problem.


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## Peanut78

nikky0907 said:


> Aria said:
> 
> 
> Question:
> What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?
> 
> Answer:
> When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> How can you even compare the two?
> 
> A man living without the foreskin on his penis lives a normal, healthy, sexually satisfying life.
> I'm sorry I don't know about you, but my clitoris is very much important to me.
> 
> It's two different procedures, two completely different motives.
> 
> Female mutilation is cutting of a woman's clitoris so she can never orgasm since it's only a privilage for the man in societies where a woman is highly degrated.
> Male circumcision is cutting of foreskin which technically has no purpose and it's a matter of hygiene and cleanliness.
> 
> About 40% of women DIE as result of this mutilation.
> 
> 
> If I ever have a son he will get circumcized. Honestly thats my business and my culture and if someone doesn't have the manners to respect different views thats their problem.Click to expand...

Having worked on issues around female genital mutilation/ Cutting (FGM/C), I thought I would add my 2 cents.... 

There are many different forms of FGM/C ranging from partial cutting for example of labia , part of the clitoral hood, to removal of the clitoris, to actual removal of everything (usually followed by stitching up the vagina only leaving a small hole to pass urine and menstrual blood). 

Globally national legislations differ on views and ranges of FGM/ C. In terms of human rights organizations (in particular children's HR organizations). FGM/ C is deemed a "harmful traditional practice". Not only having medical and health issues, but a question of personal integrity.
Initial attempts to address the issue was to advocate for medically un-sound nature of practice anmd the re-percussions on women's health (often also leading to death). This lead to the medicalization of such practices such as in Egypt where more people started performing it in hospitals. There has, however, been a decrease in pravelence in many countries thorugh protracted dialogue (mainly with women as this has been the heart of performing the tradition. It has often believed a girl/ woman who has not undergone the procedure is less clean and no one will marry her). 

Boys circumcision is not usually put in the same kettle of fish for a number of reasons: the immediate health concerns of the practice are much less, and most people only refer to extreme forms of FGM/ C which of course has a serious impact on sexual pleasure. I think many people working in this area would not address boys circumcision as they "choose their battles" and at the moment girl's is more pressing. Having said that - I have met MANY people who work in this field who also feel strongly that circumcision of boy children is also infringing on their personal integrity (in the same way partial cutting of a women's labia (is considered to make them more clean). 

I personally would not choose to have my son circumcised. I think, as with many "customary" things we do physcially or in raising our children - it should serve a prupose i.e. most customary practices that we pass on to our children we believe to be enriching in some way. There are other things that are perhaps deemed "customary" by generations before us that we would not do anymore.... this is one of them I believe.... 

xx


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## Chaos

This is a subject that has been playing on my mind until we found out we was having a girl. *relief*

I'm English and moved to the USA a couple of years ago. My Hubbys, Dads side is English. Hubby is chopped, his Dad is not (His dad was born in England) The reason the Hubby was chopped is because "It was the thing to do" back in the day. My husbands first knee jerk reaction was "He wanted it done" if we had a son and I did not. I asked him why and his response was "well you like it" (well its true haha) However I don't think this is really a good enough reason.

I don't know, maybe my knee jerk reaction of "I don't want it done to my child and to put them thru pain" is the same as the American knee jerk reaction of "I want it done to my son because I had it done" We're afraid of the unknown. I know for a fact I would not be able to be in the room if and when we have a son and its done.

I've been reading a lot and speaking to some Mums on another forum I go on. I've read that circumcision rates in America are actually dropping. I asked the other Mums their husbands reactions and I was told some of them were uncirc'd too stating the "future problem" of the kid being teased in school never really happened, because at the end of the day kids now don't have communal showers now and the kid looking at the other kids willy is more likely to get the mick taken out of him vs the kid with the unchopped foreskin.

I've tried to find websites that look at both sides of the situation regarding circumcision as well as being informative but unfortunately a lot of them are the "CIRCUMCISION IS EVIL, IF YOU DO IT YOUR FAMILY WILL BE CURSED FOR 1000 YEARS" type sites. Quite annoying. I don't want to be scared to death over it, I want to be informed.

I mean I'm not totally against it. I know millions of Americans have it done every day with no problems and go on to lead a normal life, but I've also seen the flip side at home where millions of British men do not have it done and go on to have a normal life. There seems to be this huge hype over here in the USA that a foreskin causes girls to have pee infections. *blink* I never heard that and being born in a country of foreskins never really heard that reported from any friends or family.

I like to think that maybe when we have a son it could be left on so as he has the choice to make regarding it when hes older.

Ok morning thinking out aloud session over haha.


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## polo_princess

Circumsicion wasnt just something that some one "thought they'd do for a laugh" ... there are reasons behind it, be it for medical purposes, religion, culture etc and you have to remember that just because you may not agree with the practice it is still someones belief and you should respect that decision, not try to make them feel bad for it or tell them that they are wrong.

Now play nice ladies!!


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## MaryJ

nikky0907 said:


> A man living without the foreskin on his penis lives a normal, healthy, sexually satisfying life.

Yes and no. When done properly there are minimal nerve endings separated leading to little or no loss of feeling. However, working with something so little requires a high degree of precision and not all doctors that perform male circumcisions are very good at it. My husband had too much cut off and as a result is missing feeling in half of his penis. That is not uncommon by any means. This is why if you do chose to have the procedure to chose someone who is very very very good at it and not just whoever is on call at the hospital.


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## nikky0907

Every guy I know is circumcised. Every guy I've ever been with was circumcised ( ok, there weren't that many :lol:) so maybe I cannot judge...but surely sexual pleasure is not reduced to a any damaging amount.
Why we can agree that when someone cuts of your clitoris....what sexual pleasure?

The procedure is common and routine over here, over 90% of men have it done. And believe no one feels like he's been damaged ot thinks twice about it for that matter.

I actually remember one of my friends who was with a guy from UK and she was left traumatized :lol:


----------



## starah

hmm. An interesting read :)


----------



## Vickie

Aria said:


> Question:
> What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?
> 
> Answer:
> When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation.
> 
> Just food for thought.

:shock: I don't see how you can even compare the two

As I said earlier please respect the fact that this forum has people from all over the world with different cultural and religious beliefs.


----------



## BurtonBaby

Mary J, I agree that we are both right in our own opinions, that was all that I was trying to say before. We are all from diff cultures and we cant say that one of the other is wrong. What is wrong though, is when people make others out to be cruel and abusing over something that they believe in. (Not saying you are, just in general :) ) 

Nospringchick: I've never seen anything like men crying over being circumcised. Like said before, it is a VERY normal thing here. No one should be made to feel guilty over decisions they make as a parent. And guess what?? My daughter has her ears pierced!! (gasp, horror, shock!) I had a bad experience when I was 6 and didn't want her to have the same, so I did it when she wouldn't remember. She didn't even cry. Parenting is a tough job, moms dont need people telling them they are wrong over their choices. Oh and you did offend me with your sarcasm about a very serious/touchy subject. 

Also, Amy I agree. (TMI but..) DH is circumcised, and that part of his penis is the most sensitive part... so obviously it didn't do much damage right? Male and female circumcision are completely different like you said, both the procedure and the motivation.


----------



## Vestirse

BurtonBaby said:


> Also, Amy I agree. (TMI but..) DH is circumcised, and that part of his penis is the most sensitive part... so obviously it didn't do much damage right? Male and female circumcision are completely different like you said, both the procedure and the motivation.

I thought the point of both was to cleanse?


----------



## Aria

Vickie said:


> Aria said:
> 
> 
> Question:
> What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?
> 
> Answer:
> When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> :shock: I don't see how you can even compare the two
> 
> As I said earlier please respect the fact that this forum has people from all over the world with different cultural and religious beliefs.Click to expand...

I think both are wrong, but the point I'm trying to make is that only when it's done to the boy does it have a high degree of support, but when done to a girl, it's a human rights violation. Doesn't matter if both are done for cultural or religious reasons, but only when it's to a girl is it seem as so incredibly wrong. Both are modifying the genitalia of a human without their consent.


----------



## Aria

MaryJ said:


> Yes and no. When done properly there are minimal nerve endings separated leading to little or no loss of feeling. However, working with something so little requires a high degree of precision and not all doctors that perform male circumcisions are very good at it. My husband had too much cut off and as a result is missing feeling in half of his penis. That is not uncommon by any means. This is why if you do chose to have the procedure to chose someone who is very very very good at it and not just whoever is on call at the hospital.

Absolutely right that damage isn't uncommon. It's just not often talked about. I have an ex whose nerves were damaged so severely that he is incapable of a full erection and, worse, is incapable of ejaculating due to lack of sensation.


----------



## Jelly Bean

I'm having a little boy and he won't get circumcised. I was born Jewish but have never been a practicant. 

The reason I'm not getting him circumcised is that it seems counterintuitive to put children (who don't have any say in the matter) through anything that might involve pain, if there aren't undeniable reasons for how it might improve their health and wellbeing. 

However, although I disagree with circumcision, I want to remind everyone that all families are different and circumcision isn't done with the intention to harm, usually just to ease the transition into a specific culture. I am equally against piercing baby girls' ears (which is done to 98% of the female newborns where I live - right in the hospital), but that doesn't seem to gather the heat of this debate. Ear-piercing a baby is enforcing your own aesthetic on her by poking her earlobes, it just seems wrong IMO.


----------



## Aria

I also won't pierce a baby girl's ears. That is solely for aesthetics. if the girl later begs for piercings, well, we'd consider it.

Is it correct that a Jewish boy who is circumcised can decide not to enter the religion, and if he decides to, he has his bar mitzfah? There's a court case going on over here with a father who converted to Judaism and want trying to force his 12-year-old son to be circumcised, and the mother took him to court to not allow it against the boy's will. At first a court said the father can force the boy, even though a rabbi said that when the boy turns 13 he has the right to decide anyway so why not wait. So what would be the harm in the Jewish culture to wait until a boy is old enough considering he can still choose to not enter the religion, making the circumcision pointless?

Obviously we wouldn't circumcise our son. Cody's been, and doesn't feel any negative effects because he has no comparison. but for any son we were to have, our son can decide for himself. If he wants to, we'll support that. But we see no reason to force a permanent modification to his body without a medically necessary reason.


----------



## nikky0907

Aria said:


> Vickie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aria said:
> 
> 
> Question:
> What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?
> 
> Answer:
> When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> :shock: I don't see how you can even compare the two
> 
> As I said earlier please respect the fact that this forum has people from all over the world with different cultural and religious beliefs.Click to expand...
> 
> I think both are wrong, but the point I'm trying to make is that only when it's done to the boy does it have a high degree of support, but when done to a girl, it's a human rights violation. Doesn't matter if both are done for cultural or religious reasons, but only when it's to a girl is it seem as so incredibly wrong. Both are modifying the genitalia of a human without their consent.Click to expand...


Yeah, thats because it's a completely different procedure, done in different conditions, motivated by different social factors.

Modifying a body part to a brutal extent that leaves the girls scarred physically and emotionally for the rest of her life is MUCH different that modifying a body part in a way that leaves no damage.

On the other hand, yes, I do believe that circumcision in America today is treated as a routine aestethic surgery. And US has the highest aesthetic surgery rate in the world.... it's a country led by perfection.

But as it happens, I wouldn't want my son (fictional) to ever feel ashamed, different or rejected (and it happens ALOT, thats why many men who weren't circumcized decide on the procedure later in life).


----------



## NickyT75

I HATE threads like this this coz people from different cultures will never agree on such a highly emotive subject & discussing things like this just ends up creating bad feeling between us :(

but I will say this... (regardless of whether I agree with it or not)

I think it is sad that a boy could be made to feel ashamed of his body for looking the way it was intended to :(


----------



## MaryJ

nikky0907 said:


> But as it happens, I wouldn't want my son (fictional) to ever feel ashamed, different or rejected (and it happens ALOT, thats why many men who weren't circumcized decide on the procedure later in life).

To present the other side to that... There is also the posibility that a man will gain more experience because women are curious as to what sex with an uncirc'ed man would be like. Not that I actually want to think about my son bed hopping to satisfy a bunch of women's curiosities.

On a side note this thread really has stayed pretty respectful of everybody's views. There have only been a few posts that are really questionable.


----------



## Vickie

Aria just because YOU wouldn't do it does not give you the right to question other people's religious/cultural beliefs. I'm sorry but I think some of the things you have said have been completely out of line and borderline rude. I've said this THREE times now please respect that there are people on this forum from all over the world with different religious and cultural beliefs. I'm not saying you can't state your viewpoint. But I do insist it be done in a respectful manner.


----------



## polo_princess

Vickie said:


> I've said this THREE times now please respect that there are people on this forum from all over the world with different religious and cultural beliefs. I'm not saying you can't state your viewpoint. But I do insist it be done in a respectful manner.

:thumpup::thumpup:


----------



## baby.love

I come from a Jewish family(but dont practice it and never have) and when pregnant with my son they spoke to me about it and i felt pressured to have my son circumsized , I however decided against it after lengthy talks with my OH (non jewish family) .. I personally dont disagree with it and think its down to personal choice regarding religion/health reasons etc.


----------



## Naya69

i personaly wouldnt have my little boy circumcised i find it very the thought of it upsetting my little boy was born with jaudace and had to have blood tests and that upset me so much they had to take him to the nusery in the end to prick him. i have a friend whos had it done and hes very embarressed about it that he wont talk about it for fear of people takin the piss the world can be a very cruel place. but everyone is each to their own religion and for that respect is given x


----------



## TigerLady

Vestirse said:


> BurtonBaby said:
> 
> 
> Also, Amy I agree. (TMI but..) DH is circumcised, and that part of his penis is the most sensitive part... so obviously it didn't do much damage right? Male and female circumcision are completely different like you said, both the procedure and the motivation.
> 
> I thought the point of both was to cleanse?Click to expand...

From my experience with female circumcision (having lived for a time in a part of Africa where the practice persists), the motivations are actually not to cleanse. Older women (mothers and grandmothers) often are the ones to insist on it because they believe men will not find the girl worthy of marriage without it. It is also (there at least) a VERY imprecise "procedure" done when the girl is older and will remember the pain well. It often causes excessive scarring, infections, sometimes death. It also makes the vaginal area so scarred that birth can be a problem later and cause excessive and dangerous ripping and tearing of the vaginal and perianal regions. This is permanent damage that often results in terrible medical problems for a lifetime.

On the other hand, I find it interesting that it is the SAME gender (in both cases) that often perpetuate the practice (sans religous reasons). For example, most US men that have been circ'ed will say they want their sons circ'ed. While US women are often more open to the idea of not having their son circ'ed. In Africa it was the women insisting on the girls being done because "they had it done, too."

I am not saying whether I am pro or con... just observing. My OH is actually pro and I am still debating about what I will/will not do.


----------



## Lara+sam+bump

My OH is circumcised due to a condition he had when he was born, when he needed a wee his penis would swell up, causing a great deal of pain, removing the foreskin solved this. Our LO will not be circumcised, I see it as a pointless exercise, that is unnesasary and painful. Although the deformity OH had can be heredity. Where I live its not normal to be circumcised, OH was the first circumcised one i'd seen lol. Although he has no decrease in sensation what so ever, but it does mean that oral and self pleasuring can cause him some discomfort. xxxx


----------



## caitlenc

I just stumbled upon this thread, and I find it very interesting. I know that BnB is a mainly UK based forum, but I am an American. My DH is from England, and grew up uncircumscised. He ended up having to get cut 10 years ago when he was 28, due to the fact that the foreskin wouldn't retract. The surgery and recovery was quite painful for him, but he is glad he had it done. He actually finds that he is far MORE sensitive now, and sex is even more pleasurable than it was before.

I grew up with 3 brothers, all of whom are circumscised...I have been with men who were cut, and men who weren't. I truly believe it is a personal decision for each parent...

DH and I plan to have our son (if we have one) circumscised in the hospital...I just thought you ladies might find it interesting to hear the point of view of a man from the UK who spent many years uncut, and can actually compare the sexual experience both ways. It's just one more opinion to throw in the mix.


----------



## Mercury

That is really interesting...

It seems that the problems mentioned in the posts above were easily solved by circ'sion. As if that was the only choice available. This very much co-relates to what my Ob/Gyn was talking about but I didnt quite understand what she meant.

Thank you for sharing ladies...

For those who wish to read my Ob/Gyn's unopinionated thoughts about the topic, here it goes:

She gave me a pamphlet with information regarding circumcision along with all other brochures/magazines etc. I asked her if people found this info offensive and she said, some do and some don't.

I asked her for her opinion and she said, it's a part of your body that doesnt have a real function just like your appendix. But it can be the cause of a serious medical complication. You can guess what my next question would have been... why not treat it when it's necessary rather than cut the skin off of an infant? Well, I could tell that she had been asked that question before. So she said there are two reasons... 

1. Having it done when you already have a complication will make the pain 10 times worse than it would be! Also, it can take longer to heal as well since there will be a higher chance of having the area infected. So why not deal with it before it ever happens. She said, there are many hospitals where the appendix is removed in children to avoid a medical complication to be treated within a matter of a few hours. So these two situations become very much similar to each other!

2. Believe it or not... Baby's urine is alot less acidic in the first few days, maximum of upto 2 weeks! :shrug: (I did not know that!!!) Which makes the first week the ideal time for circumcision as passing urine will not burn the baby's wound and result in even faster healing! However, as a precaution parents are always told to apply vaseline generously to avoid getting the baby's weewee wet!

Then I asked her about the most commonly asked question: "Is it really for hygienic purposes?" I was shocked at her reply... "Nope! 99% of the time its because of religion! Commonly among Jews and Muslims. It's true that it leads to lesser chances of STD etc etc as per the research but that only helps the people who already believe in it that it is worth doing! On the other hand, no matter how impressed someone will be with the research or explanation, unless if they believe in it as an important part of their tradition, they will always avoid dealing with it"

My Ob/Gyn is neither Muslim, nor Jewish. And she has three daughters! lol...


----------



## NoSpringChick

I am shocked that there are hospitals taking out childrens apendixes ''just incase''

You guys not in the Uk do you pay for these surgeries by any chance? I think money could be a factor in the above! Crazy!!


You could argue you should get anything that can go wrong removed, just incase. Thats what it sounds like to me.


----------



## TigerLady

I've never heard of appendixes being removed just in case in the U.S. :shrug:

And btw, recent research shows that the appendix may not be as vestigal as we thought. Though you can live without it, it might actually serve a beneficial purpose. Not worth keeping in if you get appendecitis though (I had mine out due to infection 14 years ago). 

I would be careful to assume ANYthing is completely vestigal. There is a lot about the human body that we still don't understand.


----------



## Mercury

I didnt know that appendix were removed without a medical condition either. I am only sharing my discussion with my Ob/Gyn to give a medical point of view.

I'm in Canada and having the appendix removed without a complication will definitely not be covered under our free healthcare. So I am assuming that my OB/Gyn was referring to private hospitals or maybe a different country. I know circumcision isnt covered either.


----------



## MaryJ

Interesting info mercury.


----------



## nikky0907

NoSpringChick said:


> You guys not in the Uk do you pay for these surgeries by any chance? I think money could be a factor in the above! Crazy!!

I'm pretty sure my insurance covers it,yes ( not the appendix but the circumcision). However I had a girl so I can't be totally sure.


----------



## Sarah88

Thanks for the info Mercury. The second point explains why the doctors here won't do it after 2 weeks.
OP: If we have a son he will be circumsized. My OH is done and thus it is his decision to get our future son done. My daughter had her ears pierced too. *Ducks from abuse*


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

thanks for all the info!


----------



## Mummi2b

*wow i have never know so many women to argue over a boys bits !!!!

in a way its pathetic coz its your son no1 else 's you know best
why you judge a persons son on whether he has a foreskin or not.

I have read the posts and im gonna try and say this nicely but who gives a plum fairy whether you agree or not, at the end of the day all parents are put on this earth to give and do the best for our children . even if that means your son havin a foreskin or not 

sorry *


----------



## aSh_x0x

where im from (australia) it is much more common in older men to be circumsized, now a days (according to my bf who showers with his soccer team) says none of his team, nor anyone he knows is circumsized..my bf is against circumsition.

Me..i dont really have any strong opinions, i would opt to not circumsize, purely for the reason that i wouldnt want my baby to feel any pain at all..but thats just me, each to their own.


----------



## princess_vix

i'm having a boy and will not have him circumsised but we all have our views and own person opinions on this matter but to me if your born with something it shouldn't be taken away from you unless it's a medical reason.


----------



## CamoQueen

Gotta say, with a few exceptions this discussion on circumcision is a LOT less heated than the ones I've seen earlier! Well done to girls on both sides of the debate, my hat's off to you!


----------



## MaryJ

nikky0907 said:


> NoSpringChick said:
> 
> 
> You guys not in the Uk do you pay for these surgeries by any chance? I think money could be a factor in the above! Crazy!!
> 
> I'm pretty sure my insurance covers it,yes ( not the appendix but the circumcision). However I had a girl so I can't be totally sure.Click to expand...

Insurance companies in the U.S. are starting to drop routine infant circumcision because they consider it an "elective procedure". :growlmad: Anything to get out of paying out money - but that's an entirely different debate.


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

i agree with the statement about insurance companies!


----------



## Monkeh

CamoQueen said:


> Gotta say, with a few exceptions this discussion on circumcision is a LOT less heated than the ones I've seen earlier! Well done to girls on both sides of the debate, my hat's off to you!

I was thinking the same. :) Well done ladies :D


----------



## Mimiso

Both my boys are circumsised and the reason we did so is not for religious reasons but because it is more hygienic etc. I am not originally from England and in my country we do not circumsise rather that our grandparents pull the foreskin back so that the 'head' can be cleaned as it accumulates a lot of dirt. Due to the fact that I was unable to do this myself, my OH and I opted to circumsise our LO at 10 days old and the older one at 7 years old. It is not barbaric as some people describe it, it is merely snipping the foreskin and it takes all of one minute to do - its like cutting your nails to be honest.

It is a personal choice of course but more and more boys are now getting circumsised. Good luck all


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

i couldn't disagree more with Mimiso


----------



## princessttc

Mimiso said:


> Both my boys are circumsised and the reason we did so is not for religious reasons but because it is more hygienic etc. I am not originally from England and in my country we do not circumsise rather that our grandparents pull the foreskin back so that the 'head' can be cleaned as it accumulates a lot of dirt. Due to the fact that I was unable to do this myself, my OH and I opted to circumsise our LO at 10 days old and the older one at 7 years old. It is not barbaric as some people describe it, it is merely snipping the foreskin and it takes all of one minute to do - *its like cutting your nails to be honest.*
> It is a personal choice of course but more and more boys are now getting circumsised. Good luck all

:saywhat::saywhat::saywhat: :shock: :shock:


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

exactly what i meant, princessttc


----------



## Vestirse

I am also baffled as to how you could compare it with cutting nails. That is painless, requires no anesthesia and they grow back. I do not think the same could be said of circumcision.


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

yup, V


----------



## MaryJ

Yeah baffled here too. They're not even close to comparable. Cutting fingernails is temporary. Cutting off foreskin is permanent. Huge difference right there!

And the statement about more and more choosing to circ. is completely geographical/cultural - some areas in the U.S. have circ rates over 90% and other areas are closer to 50%. Circ. in Africa is on the rise because they think it helps prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS and I think in most of the Scandinavian countries circ rates are like 2%. So that statement is only partially true.


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

yeah, that not the most informative thing she wrote


----------



## Genna

nikky0907 said:


> Aria said:
> 
> 
> Question:
> What's the difference between male circumcision and female circumcision?
> 
> Answer:
> When it's done to females, even newborns, it's considered to be inhumane and called mutilation.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> How can you even compare the two?
> 
> A man living without the foreskin on his penis lives a normal, healthy, sexually satisfying life.
> I'm sorry I don't know about you, but my clitoris is very much important to me.
> 
> It's two different procedures, two completely different motives.
> 
> Female mutilation is cutting of a woman's clitoris so she can never orgasm since it's only a privilage for the man in societies where a woman is highly degrated.
> Male circumcision is cutting of foreskin which technically has no purpose and it's a matter of hygiene and cleanliness.
> 
> About 40% of women DIE as result of this mutilation.
> 
> 
> If I ever have a son he will get circumcized. Honestly thats my business and my culture and if someone doesn't have the manners to respect different views thats their problem.Click to expand...

you cannot compare the two (male vs. female circumcision)..Marley WILL be circumcised (at my hospital it has to be done no later than a week (they perform it the day after birth) after birth or they will not do it), and I can say from the experience of actually seeing it performed in real life multiple times, that when done before 2 weeks causes little if any pain to the LO at all. The most I've seen a baby react was a little twitch. TO EACH THEIR OWN, but it definitely should NOT be compared to cutting finger nails...:dohh:


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

wow, i got a lot of info from this thread


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## tasha41

I live in Canada.

I think I've come across 7 circumsized and only 1 uncircumsized penis, lol. Honestly.. I was freaked right out by the uncircumsized one and I didn't have a clue what to do with it, I was afraid of hurting it, lol. And I thought it was a lot "messier" than a circumsized one. That being said I don't think future sexual partners' opinions should dictate whether or not to circumsize your infant son.

However, if I had a son.. he'd be circumsized. I don't really want to cause any child pain for no reason whatsoever but I've heard horror stories about friends' dad's having circumcisions in their 40s and my cousin is getting circumsized soon (at age 9) and his parents had to explain why and what the doctor will do to him (it's to correct a medical problem).. and he's freaked right out. After hearing all the girls who have had it done speak of the relatively quick recoveries as infants, etc. I don't feel like such a monster anymore (like I think many of us who are pro-circ or open minded about it have been made to feel).


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

thanks, Tasha!


----------



## MaryJ

mom-on-8/2009 said:


> wow, i got a lot of info from this thread

Hope it has helped you make an informed decision.



tasha41 said:


> I live in Canada.
> 
> I think I've come across 7 circumsized and only 1 uncircumsized penis, lol. Honestly.. I was freaked right out by the uncircumsized one and I didn't have a clue what to do with it...
> 
> I don't feel like such a monster anymore (like I think many of us who are pro-circ or open minded about it have been made to feel).

I've been with one uncirc'ed man and it freaked me out a little too. I honestly had no idea what I was looking at at first. :blush:

And NO ONE should be made to feel like a monster about circ'ing their sons. I've seen people (not in this thread) go so far as to call it sexual abuse and that is comletely uncalled for.


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

wow, i'm glad my thread didn't get out of hand
i hadn't even known there were other circ threads at the time


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

and it's def not sexual abuse!
geesh, some people most have really like being up on a soap box or something!


----------



## Vestirse

I would hope I'm not making anyone feel like a monster, but I am still convinced it is highly unnecessary and done mostly for aesthetic purposes. All this talk of how it cuts down on STDs - so does a condom, which is about 100% more efficient at preventing STDs, and I'd also hope we'd teach our sons about safe sex. 

If I have a son, he will be uncirced. I just don't see the point. But then I am talking about me. I am not trying to preach to anyone else - I'm just extremely confused why anyone would do it beyond superficial/religious reasons and honestly, all the "scientific" justification irks me a bit as I think it's just that - a justification. People are trying to justify their actions by attempting to show some "benefits", but I don't think any of that is a primary reason most people circumcise their sons.


----------



## Sarah88

Personally I don't think anyone needs to justify why they would circumsize or not circumsize theire son. They either do it or not, end of. I don't want to have to explain why I am going to get my future son done.


----------



## lesleyann

I am not getting my son done unless he needs it for medical reasons and i have never ever seen a man without foreskin in real life. 

I believe the whole cleaner thing is rubbish is you wash it stays clean if you dont want an STD or STI use a condom..

I believe it should be up to the child since its there body but of course a baby can not tell you what they want if my son came to me and said he wanted it done when he understands what it is then thats up to him but i would not want to take away his human rights by doing something without his permission that does not need to be done that could never be reversed. 

But thats just my opinion not trying to offend anyone here..


----------



## AppleBlossom

Not going to bother to read the thread. My opinion is if you decide to have your son circumsised then that's up to you, people can't turn around and tell you you're a terrible barbaric mother. Personally if I had a son I would let him decide when he was a bit older if he wanted it done because that way I don't feel I have taken away his option. I prefer circumsised men blush: ) but that's just me and most men I know with them have had it done for mediacal reasons. But like I say if you feel like you should do it for whatever reason, medical, religious, cultural. Just do it. It doesn't make you a monster. And for those who don't want to, all you need to do is teach your son decent hygiene. Simple as IMO

Edit: I doubt any claims of getting less STI's etc if you're circumsised are true. They claim to be cleaner but everyone has the same amount of chance at getting STI's surely?


----------



## mrs.beanz

My doctor has told me that he is pretty sure my baby is a boy. I have decided to have him circumcised and to be honest I didnt think about it for a long period of time before I came to that decision. My husband is circumcised. I am Canadian so like Tasha, I dont have alot of experience with an uncircumcised man. Actually I have never seen one in person. My mother did draw me a picture once and at 35 years of age that might seem strange to some but in my generation and the country that I am from cirumcision is the norm. 
I am now living in a different country and when I inquired about having it done I was made to feel like I was going to be butchering my baby. I was very shocked and scared to even ask another person about it. I decided that I would put a bit more thought into my decision because I felt forced to by judgemental people. I spent hours on the internet, talking to people that had it done at birth, talking to people that didnt, people that had it done later in life and my decision hasnt changed. 
I will have to travel to another state to have it done and will be judged here because of my decision but honestly, I just dont care. At first my decision was based solely on what I know and the fact that my husband is circumcised...but I have spent alot of time reading and talking to people because I felt like I had to justify myself...I am doing what I think is best for my son and that should be reason enough. 
I have read the medical benefits and the articles that say it is not necessary and I do agree that if washed properly there shouldnt be as many problems...the fact is that not everyone washes properly and I wont be there to help my son wash his willy when he is 35. Does that seem like a silly reason because he might be the most hygenic person in the world and I cant tell the future? Probably but I can also argue that he could also turn out to be a dirty man that will have plenty of infection and pass that onto a woman that he chooses to sleep with unprotected because as most people know kids dont always do what you tell them and they dont always turn out how you planned as adults. The pros and cons can be argued till the cows come home. For me, the medical benefits make sense because it is what I know whereas the not doing it makes sense to others as it is what they know...no one is right or wrong. 
I have read this thread a few times and wasnt going to post but after how I was treated here I felt that I wanted to put my thoughts somewhere. 
I guess the point I am trying to make is that people do make alot of excuses as to why they will have it done and sure most of time they are trying to justify their decision but when you think about it...do they have to justify it to anyone? I am from a country and a time when it was not normal if it wasnt done and I have never asked someone to justify why they didnt have it done. 
As I type this I see that I am rambling...mostly because I am trying to justify myself so I will stop now...My son...my decision. Your son...your decsion....simple as that.


----------



## Vestirse

No, they don't have to justify it. That was my point and that's why any sort of justification irks me - because they are not doing it because of any high-minded reason of science. Any body part can get an infection if not properly cared for - this includes the vagina. We don't try to tamper with those. So that reason is at best quite flimsy. I come from a long line of circumcised men. When I asked my mom (who is as blunt as me) why she did it, she just shrugged and told me that was the way it was done. I thought her answer was the best and most honest I'd ever heard.

Reading these responses and others over the internet leads me to believe most people who circumcise their newborn sons are doing it out of tradition - whether borne out of religion or for aesthetic purposes - in other words, they are doing what they've always known. There is no reason otherwise and people shouldn't try to come up with one as it will never actually make sense.

If people want the real skinny on circumcision, they should know that it is at the heart of the matter totally unnecessary. However, many many men live fine lives without their foreskin, so if you want to circumcise your son, chances are he'll be fine. There is no real argument for or against because circumcision is not medically necessary and boys won't be scarred growing up with a foreskin among others that do not have one. That's just silly. It's just tradition, plain and simple, that prompts parents to make the decision to circumcise.

And that's my 2 cents.


----------



## mom-on-8/2009

what a thorough discussion


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## leeanne

I have two boys. My first son was not circumsized purely because I listened to my MIL but later I had wished that I had had him done.

Because my first son was not circumsized I chose not to circumsize Chase. I didn't want there to be a feeling of "I am different than you" later on in life.

Needless to say, I do think circumcisions in Canada are decreasing due to the fact that it is no longer covered by medical insurance and does cost $200 to have it done.

Now, please note that I am for whatever a parent decides. Of course, traditions, countries and cultures are the reasons parents decides to do it or not.

I will share a story though. A few days before I had Chase my OH and I were in a clinic to discuss a vasectomy. It didn't go so well but that's beside the point. As we were leaving I was appalled. In a room, the door open fully, was a baby laying on a bed, uncovered and naked. Obviously, the doctor was going to perform a circumcision on this baby.

I seriously was disgusted. The hospital later told me that this was the doctor they referred all circumcisions to. I disliked the doctor before even seeing what I saw.


----------



## NoSpringChick

All i can say on behalf of 99% of British males it's a good job they don't take offence as easily as others.

Reading this they all have smelly dirty parts and STD's and their willys are enough to shock people.


----------



## coccyx

I see a lot of my child ...my decision, shouldn't that be .. his foreskin....his decision when older


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## Sarah88

What?


----------



## lesleyann

NoSpringChick said:


> All i can say on behalf of 99% of British males it's a good job they don't take offence as easily as others.
> 
> Reading this they all have smelly dirty parts and STD's and their willys are enough to shock people.

i have to say i 100% agree with that it does seem that according to alot of things all of British men must not be clean and carry loads of STD's and STI's but i have never met a dirty British willy or got anything from one and ive only seen a C willy on the tv and it just looked weird to me.


----------



## Vickie

NoSpringChick said:


> All i can say on behalf of 99% of British males it's a good job they don't take offence as easily as others.
> 
> Reading this they all have smelly dirty parts and STD's and their willys are enough to shock people.

Seriously?! This is completely uncalled for. People were giving reasons as to why they would have it done and I don't think anyone meant any offense. It is a common practice in other parts of the world to have it done and for someone who has never seen an uncircumcized man it is probably surprising. 

If this continues I will remove this thread! This is the FOURTH time I've had to come on here and tell people to try and respect others cultures/religions/beliefs.


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## NoSpringChick

removed


----------



## Wobbles

I think you could have just come across better nospringchick ...I see your edited post and you said nothing wrong.

People ask for their decisions to be respected if the decide to go through with this on their sons behalf and the same should go for people who decide not to and neither should be publicly challanged as wrong if this is done or discusting and prone to alsorts if not ...like I seen someone else saying a lot of the decision on this seems to come from the parents lifestyle, beliefs and upbringings and thats what they know and/or what they believe is right. Who are we to question it because we were brought up differently.

People also forget BabyandBumps members are from all over the world and we don't just aim our site to one country like most websites. Please keep that in mind girls!?

x


----------



## NoSpringChick

wobbles I removed my post because I just thought what's the point?
It's obviously not a subject that can be debated fairly here, and it seems ok to imply things about:- when it comes down to it - our sons and husbands etc that arent circ'd (cant include my dad cos he IS circ'd!) 

All I was saying is offence goes both ways.
I just hope people arent thinking that the those of us married to uncirc'd men are with smelly men!


----------



## Vickie

NoSpringChick said:


> wobbles I removed my post because I just thought what's the point?
> It's obviously not a subject that can be debated fairly here, and it seems ok to imply things about:- when it comes down to it - our sons and husbands etc that arent circ'd (cant include my dad cos he IS circ'd!)
> 
> All I was saying is offence goes both ways.
> I just hope people arent thinking that the those of us married to uncirc'd men are with smelly men!

I never said that the subject can't be debated but I thought what you said was inflammatory. I do agree that offense goes both ways but if you had a point to make I think it could have been done in a better way, that's all I was trying to say.

And honestly my husband is not circumcised, if we have a son he will not be. But most of the men in my family in the States are. I'm not taking one side of the other. I'm just trying to make sure people respect others decisions/beliefs and state their opinions in a fair manner


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## mom-on-8/2009

yeah, i want people to discuss thoughts without being disrespectful


----------



## golcarlilly

coccyx said:


> I see a lot of my child ...my decision, shouldn't that be .. his foreskin....his decision when older

=D&gt;
After reading the whole thread from start to finish I think this statement says it all really, what gives any of us the right to remove part of our children's bodies without their consent? Unless the foreskin is posing a medical problem I really don't see how anyone can justify cutting it off? 
I feel the same way about ear piercing and also about religious beliefs, I let my DD decide when she wanted her ears pierced and although I am an aetheist I made sure she knew that if she chose to believe in God that was fine by me. 

If my son decides he would like to be circumcised for whatever reason then so be it and if not that will be fine too :)

_The above is my humble opinion with no offence intended to anyone!!!_


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## Sarah88

So does it make me a bad mum for getting my daughters ears pierced?


----------



## lyndsey3010

If my LO is a boy, we will be getting him circumcised.

OH is circumcised as he is Jewish, I'm not so we can't have a Mohel carry out the circumcision. I was put off by a medical circumcision as this is different to a religious one here and an anaesthetic is required, however we have now found a clinic where we can get it done.

I wasn't sure at first but OH feels strongly that he wants his son's willy to look the same as his and I can understand that.

In response to those who are of the opinion that it should be your childs decision, whilst i FULLY respect that opinion, we have decided to follow the jewish faith and get the circumsicion done before our son is 8 days old, this is because there is something with the senses at the end of the penis which aren't developed by 8 days so the procedure is painless.


----------



## nikky0907

golcarlilly said:


> coccyx said:
> 
> 
> I see a lot of my child ...my decision, shouldn't that be .. his foreskin....his decision when older
> 
> =D&gt;
> After reading the whole thread from start to finish I think this statement says it all really, what gives any of us the right to remove part of our children's bodies without their consent? * Unless the foreskin is posing a medical problem I really don't see how anyone can justify cutting it off?
> I feel the same way about ear piercing and also about religious beliefs,* I let my DD decide when she wanted her ears pierced and although I am an aetheist I made sure she knew that if she chose to believe in God that was fine by me.
> 
> If my son decides he would like to be circumcised for whatever reason then so be it and if not that will be fine too :)
> 
> _The above is my humble opinion with no offence intended to anyone!!!_Click to expand...

I will ask you to be careful how you word things because as seen on Sarah's example the things you've written can be misinterpreted as offensive.

It almost seems like every page of this thread needs to have this reminder but I'll say it again : this is a forum with over 1000 active members. Members from different cultures, countries, with different beliefs.Respect that.

We impose all kinds of things on our children daily (unintentionally) with our lifestyle, family etc. We influnce their lives enourmously and make decisions for them.... will you be dressing your son in a skirt? Will you be dressing him in pink, not blue? Will you be raising your kids non-vegetarian? Those are all decisions _we_ make for our kids...instead of them.


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## starah

After reading these debates I always think of how interesting it would be to read a debate between males on this issue...


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## nikky0907

starah said:


> After reading these debates I always think of how interesting it would be to read a debate between males on this issue...

I _think_ it would still be a difference in opinion between UK/Europe and North America.


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## lesleyann

ok so after reading alot of this and adding my own opinion i want to ask those who have said its for religious reasons, what are the reasons in the religion for this to be done?


im not trying to debate anything i have just never none what these reasons are and why people feel so strongly towards them so i can understand that side of it a bit more.


----------



## Naya69

golcarlilly said:


> coccyx said:
> 
> 
> I see a lot of my child ...my decision, shouldn't that be .. his foreskin....his decision when older
> 
> =D&gt;
> After reading the whole thread from start to finish I think this statement says it all really, what gives any of us the right to remove part of our children's bodies without their consent? Unless the foreskin is posing a medical problem I really don't see how anyone can justify cutting it off?
> I feel the same way about ear piercing and also about religious beliefs, I let my DD decide when she wanted her ears pierced and although I am an aetheist I made sure she knew that if she chose to believe in God that was fine by me.
> 
> If my son decides he would like to be circumcised for whatever reason then so be it and if not that will be fine too :)
> 
> _The above is my humble opinion with no offence intended to anyone!!!_Click to expand...

couldnt ov said it better myself your 100% right its the childs decision when hes older.


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## mom-on-8/2009

i agree w the above except it would hurt more later


----------



## nikky0907

Naya69 said:


> golcarlilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coccyx said:
> 
> 
> I see a lot of my child ...my decision, shouldn't that be .. his foreskin....his decision when older
> 
> =D&gt;
> After reading the whole thread from start to finish I think this statement says it all really, what gives any of us the right to remove part of our children's bodies without their consent? Unless the foreskin is posing a medical problem I really don't see how anyone can justify cutting it off?
> I feel the same way about ear piercing and also about religious beliefs, I let my DD decide when she wanted her ears pierced and although I am an aetheist I made sure she knew that if she chose to believe in God that was fine by me.
> 
> If my son decides he would like to be circumcised for whatever reason then so be it and if not that will be fine too :)
> 
> _The above is my humble opinion with no offence intended to anyone!!!_Click to expand...
> 
> couldnt ov said it better myself your 100% right its the childs decision when hes older.Click to expand...

The older they get it becomes more painful and more dangerous. Doctors over here usually do it in the first week of birth because there are less risks for infection.


----------



## golcarlilly

nikky0907 said:


> golcarlilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coccyx said:
> 
> 
> I see a lot of my child ...my decision, shouldn't that be .. his foreskin....his decision when older
> 
> =D&gt;
> After reading the whole thread from start to finish I think this statement says it all really, what gives any of us the right to remove part of our children's bodies without their consent? * Unless the foreskin is posing a medical problem I really don't see how anyone can justify cutting it off?
> I feel the same way about ear piercing and also about religious beliefs,* I let my DD decide when she wanted her ears pierced and although I am an aetheist I made sure she knew that if she chose to believe in God that was fine by me.
> 
> If my son decides he would like to be circumcised for whatever reason then so be it and if not that will be fine too :)
> 
> _The above is my humble opinion with no offence intended to anyone!!!_Click to expand...
> 
> I will ask you to be careful how you word things because as seen on Sarah's example the things you've written can be misinterpreted as offensive.
> 
> It almost seems like every page of this thread needs to have this reminder but I'll say it again : this is a forum with over 1000 active members. Members from different cultures, countries, with different beliefs.Respect that.
> 
> We impose all kinds of things on our children daily (unintentionally) with our lifestyle, family etc. We influnce their lives enourmously and make decisions for them.... will you be dressing your son in a skirt? Will you be dressing him in pink, not blue? Will you be raising your kids non-vegetarian? Those are all decisions _we_ make for our kids...instead of them.Click to expand...

I do respect other people's opinions and that is why I said that what I wrote was purely my humble opinion and not intended to offend :)


----------



## MaryJ

lesleyann said:


> ok so after reading alot of this and adding my own opinion i want to ask those who have said its for religious reasons, what are the reasons in the religion for this to be done?
> 
> 
> im not trying to debate anything i have just never none what these reasons are and why people feel so strongly towards them so i can understand that side of it a bit more.

_How did circumcision start in the Bible?
According to Genesis, God told Abraham to circumcise himself, his household and his slaves as an everlasting covenant in their flesh. Those who were not circumcised were to be 'cut off' from their people (Genesis 17:10-14). Note the connection between circumcision and slavery. It is alluded to in the New Testament.

Who was to be circumcised?
Abraham, his descendants and those who were bought with their money (Genesis 17:12-13). Also, all the males of a household were to be circumcised if one of them wanted to join in the Passover celebrations (Exodus 12:43-49)._

Took those quotes from www.cirp.org
Most of the site is anti-circumcision from a Christian perspective though. The books of Genesis and Exodus have several pro-circ. references that have spread from Judaism to Christianity though I believe they were only intended to be practiced by Jews.


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## snugglebot

Can we also avoid boxing in people to one side of the debate or another based on where they live? I'm Canadian, and I don't have a strong opinion either way yet, but I do know that being N. American doesn't automatically make me pro-circumcision. (Actually, none of my family or my DH's family are circumcised and it isn't something I even realized was an issue until I went to a bachelor party and had to pin the penis on the donkey, drew a penis and everyone laughed at it.... I didn't even know what a circumcised penis looked liked!!!).

I think the trouble with the topic is you can't discuss it without providing reasons for why you think one way or another because if you do, clearly your reasons won't agree with someone's reasons for the other side of the argument, and so it is a big circle.

I think it comes down to answering these questions for yourself. 

What are your views on:

any religious reasons for and against circumcision?
the medical reasons for and against circumcision?
Following family traditions of having or not having circumcision?
Following your community's/country's social and cultural norms regarding circumcision?

*Don't post answers, because they aren't answers for everyone. *They are just your opinion (I don't even have one yet because I feel I haven't researched it enough to decide). 

Each one of these bullets has a different level of importance to each of us and of course a different answer.

The trick for me is to make sure my DH's and my opinion is well thought out and we are comfortable with it as our decision alone. I think that is the way people find their answers to this question. We do not want to do something because of pressure from other places.


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## nikky0907

snugglebot said:


> Can we also avoid boxing in people to one side of the debate or another based on where they live? I'm Canadian, and I don't have a strong opinion either way yet, but I do know that being N. American doesn't automatically make me pro-circumcision. (*Actually, none of my family or my DH's family are circumcised and it isn't something I even realized was an issue until I went to a bachelor party and had to pin the penis on the donkey, drew a penis and everyone laughed at it.... I didn't even know what a circumcised penis looked liked!!!).*

:rofl: :rofl: Sorry, the game is just too funny!


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## snugglebot

to be clear, the "donkey" was actually a photo of a hot naked male model with the grooms face photoshop'd on...

:oops: should have cleared that up ...


----------



## tasha41

I don't understand why someone should have to justify his/her religious reasons? I can't speak for all but I can explain the Jewish & Christian reasoning/stance on it somewhat:

God told Abraham to circumsize himself, the males in his family and his male slaves. Jewish people follow this but Christians are not under any obligation to; when Jesus came, he formed a new covenant with the people.. Christians need not follow Mosaic law, in other words, we are not under religious obligation to circumsize our sons just like we are not under religious obligation to follow the same rules about food as Jewish people are.

That being said many Christians do choose to still do it as a personal/cultural choice not related to their religion.. but I think that culture, especially in such a secularized world, is just as important for some people as their religion :)


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## helen1234

my son isnt circumsised i dont think its medically nessersary unless theirs a problem which is very rare and i'm lucky my religion doesnt inflict that kind of pain on baby boys i'm christian if it did i still wouldnt do it.
i'd punch a doctor who made my baby cry in that way.

each to their own. i feel lucky i didnt have to make that decision its a bit of skin leave it be lol teach kids to put a rubber hat on their tails thats the only thing that helps stop std's even better teach children to be in loving relationships before they do the ding a ling dance.
xx


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## Sarah88

My friend had her son done and it was painless, including afterwards. I know because I was questioning her heavily on it as I wasn't sure which sex I was having at that time. Those videos you see do not represent all circumcisions and are just a fearmongering way to scare people.


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## NewlywedTTC

Sometimes I pop over from second tri to see what I have to look forward to. I saw this thread, and at my first appointment (before even seeing the doctor!) they gave me circumcision information. I've read it. I have been told it's MUCH cheaper to have your own doctor to it than have it done in the hospital. 
But, since this is such a hot topic I thought I'd share a joke I heard once. Two men were using the urinal in the restroom. One guy looks at the other guy and says, "Pardon me, but I couldn't help but notice you're circumcised. Did it hurt?" To which the other man replies, "Well, they do it when you're really young so I don't remember much. But I do know this much--I couldn't walk for a year!" 
Just thought I'd add a chuckle to a heated topic :)


----------



## Sarah88

:rofl:
Thanks :)


----------



## lozzy21

IMO if its for medical,cultural or religious purposes then i dont have any strong viwes, im sure if i was jewish or muslim i would do it if i ever had a son.
For any other reason i dont see a point aslong as they are tought to shower/bath on a regular basis, how to clean it propperly and to use a comdom i personaly dont see the point. I have had partners who have been both circumisesed and not and honestly i prefer not. Imo there was to much friction but that could have been because he had reduced sensation and could last longer lol


----------



## TigerLady

NewlywedTTC said:


> But, since this is such a hot topic I thought I'd share a joke I heard once. Two men were using the urinal in the restroom. One guy looks at the other guy and says, "Pardon me, but I couldn't help but notice you're circumcised. Did it hurt?" To which the other man replies, "Well, they do it when you're really young so I don't remember much. But I do know this much--I couldn't walk for a year!"
> Just thought I'd add a chuckle to a heated topic :)

:rofl:


----------



## Elysian1c0

**apologies if I'm being repetitive, but I only got through a few pages of this before I replied.**

Religious reasons aside, in the US, a lot of parents do it simply because it's the norm.
If we have a little boy, we're having him circumcised, but we're actually going to do it through a Jewish ceremony, because it is LESS barbaric than the way they do it at hospitals. Apparently, they strap baby down, slice him up, and then he can't even go to his mom for comfort afterward.
At the Jewish ceremony (from what I understand) Mom and Dad are present, they lay baby on a pillow, sing to him, put a little wine on the pacifier so he won't feel so much pain, and then after they do what they do, he's given directly to mom.

WHY are we circumcising? Not necessarily out of a strict religious code, but because it is sort of a religious norm, as well as a cultural norm. Every male in my family and every male I've ever encountered intimately (not many!) has been circumcised.
And baby wouldn't remember anyway. Now, I had an ex who wasn't done until around 6 or 7, and he remembers QUITE well...poor guy...


----------



## PitBullMommy

We have talked about the pros and cons and, although DH is done we are not having Austin done when he is born. Just personal preference in our case. I don't see the reason for us TO have it done. We don't have any religious or cultural beliefs either way to support having it done or not done and I just can't see having an unnecessary (in our opinions) procedure done on a newborn. A friend of ours had her son done and they messed it up so badly that they had to wait till he was a year old and have it RE-done, the poor guy! My sister on the other hand has both of her sons done. I think it's everyone's personal preference, really. Now I just have to learn how to take CARE of his penis...hmmm....


----------



## karenshaz

I've got this problem in deciding whether to circumcise one of my twins. I think it's every parents decision, and it can be a really hard one, and people on forums should respect this and not make it even harder.

I have twins who are a year. OH is muslim and wanted them circumcised, my family think its child abuse. They were 10 weeks prem so obviously couldn't be circumcised when first born. Added to this one of the twins has a medical problem whereby circumcision will be necessary as foreskin will be needed in further operation (cant be circumcised until this time). This opens the whole debate even further, as I don't want him to feel even worse about his problem (present medical one I mean) when comparing himself to his brother. But of course my family think the second twin shouldn't be punished for this.

It is a very hard decision for a parent to make in lots of cases, and especially for those who have a medical problem. I dont think its nice calling it barbaric and loss of sensation etc, parents of children who have no choice in cases like ours have enough to worry about with their sons emotional and physical well being. I think it is very insensitive and anyone who feels this should respect the difficult choices every parent has to make for THEIR CHILDREN.


----------



## sleepinbeauty

I will NOT be cutting parts of my son's penis off! There is no reason for it. If it weren't supposed to be there, he wouldn't been born with it. 

If you have some medical reason or something for it, knock yourself out. Doing it just because "it looks nicer" is crap.


----------



## Vestirse

PitBullMommy said:


> Now I just have to learn how to take CARE of his penis...hmmm....

There's really nothing special. It's actually harmful to an uncircumcisized infant to have his foreskin forcibly retracted. So in truth, no extra care beyond soap and water on the normal parts is needed. After the foreskin is retractable, boys should be taught to wash under the foreskin during his normal bath or shower.

https://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/


> Foreskin Hygiene: The foreskin is easy to care for. The infant should be bathed or sponged frequently, and all parts should be washed including the genitals. The uncircumcised penis is easy to keep clean. No special care is required. No attempt should be made to forcibly retract the foreskin. No manipulation is necessary. There is no need for special cleansing with Q-tips, irrigation, or antiseptics; soap and water externally will suffice.
> 
> Foreskin Retraction: As noted, the foreskin and glans develop as one tissue. Separation will evolve over time. It should not be forced. When will separation occur? Each child is different. Separation may occur before birth; this is rare. It may take a few days, weeks, months, or even years. This is normal. Although many foreskins will retract by age 5, there is no need for concern even after a longer period. [1984 version only: No harm will come in leaving the foreskin alone.] Some boys do not attain full retractability of the foreskin until adolescence.
> 
> Hygiene of the Fully Retracted Foreskin: For the first few years, an occasional retraction with cleansing beneath is sufficient.
> 
> Penile hygiene will later become a part of a child's total body hygiene, including hair shampooing, cleansing the folds of the ear, and brushing teeth. At puberty, the male should be taught the importance of retracting the foreskin and cleaning beneath during his daily bath.
> 
> Summary: Care of the uncircumcised boy is quite easy. ``Leave it alone'' is good advice. External washing and rinsing on a daily basis is all that is required. Do not retract the foreskin in an infant, as it is almost always attached to the glans. Forcing the foreskin back may harm the penis, causing pain, bleeding, and possibly adhesions. The natural separation of the foreskin from the glans may take many years. After puberty, the adult male learns to retract the foreskin and cleanse under it on a daily basis.
> 
> Copyright © 1984, 1990. American Academy of Pediatrics


----------



## Miss_Mo

Okay, I've read the entire thread (I was linked here) and haven't really found any answers to the questions that I had posted in another (now closed) thread so I am reposting.

I am on team blue but as of yet I have not had the circumcism conversation with my husband because honestly I'm not sure how I feel about it. What I would like to know before I even start to consider my feelings toward the subject is about the actual procedure.

Is it done in the hospital sometime after the baby is born but before we go home?
Or is it done in a like a follow-up visit?
How long does it take?
Would my husband be allowed in while it is being done (if we decide to do it)?


----------



## TigerLady

Miss_Mo said:


> Okay, I've read the entire thread (I was linked here) and haven't really found any answers to the questions that I had posted in another (now closed) thread so I am reposting.
> 
> I am on team blue but as of yet I have not had the circumcism conversation with my husband because honestly I'm not sure how I feel about it. What I would like to know before I even start to consider my feelings toward the subject is about the actual procedure.
> 
> Is it done in the hospital sometime after the baby is born but before we go home?
> Or is it done in a like a follow-up visit?
> How long does it take?
> Would my husband be allowed in while it is being done (if we decide to do it)?

These depend upon your preferences and your hospital/doctor. 

It doesn't take long at all (seconds). Prep takes longer than the actual procedure. They usually numb the area with a topical agent (if done by a doc at a hospital). Some docs and nurses swear that being naked and stretched out is more traumatic to the baby than the procedure (as they don't like being open to cool air and stretched out (arms and legs) right after they are born).

It can be done at the hospital or at a follow up visit by a doc. If you are doing it for religious reasons, then a religous cleric/rabbi/etc can do it at a ceremony. Sometimes OBs do it, sometimes pediatricians do it.

I would recommend asking your OB what the standard procedure is for them and at the hospital you are going to deliver. I would strongly recommend having someone do it that has plenty of experience with it, as it _can _be botched. (Though that is rare.)

Usually husbands are allowed to attend as far as I know.

Personally, if I get it done (still TBD), it will be done the day of or after birth at the hospital by my OB. My husband is able to attend, and I told him I insist on it (as he is the one determined to have it done). The cost of it is included in my birth costs at the hospital as long as I have it done before I leave the hospital with the baby. My OB is very experienced with it and is the best in town, so is the only one I would trust with it.


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## AppleBlossom

This is _still_ going?


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## cinnamongirl

Ok ladies. I'm not interested whatsoever in getting into any kind of argument over this topic...I'm just going to say my thoughts, and let others say theirs! Let's also remember to keep it respectful, as each family has their own reasons for making the choices that they do...that being said:

I have no real knowledge in having a baby circ'd, as I'm a first time momma, but, I was married to a man who was not, and my OH is, as is his son.
Personally, I prefer the look/feel of a circ'd man, but that's a personal choice. I will also go out and say that if we end up on Team Blue, yes...I will have it done to my boy, and no...I won't feel like I'm abusing my child.

I think that most people who do it not for religious/health reasons are making a choice based on the info that they may have. When we say it's a 'personal choice', obviously it's not baby's choice, but I think most parents that choose to have it done in infancy choose so because the memory of the pain will never be remembered by the child. The same cannot be said for children/young men/men who have it done later in life. I'm sure it's quite traumatizing to cut off a small piece of urself, and I myself would prefer to have something like that done while I was so small and wouldn't be able to remember it!

But, my ex never had any health problems and was always very hygienic, and I think that's fine...one problem may lie in children who do not keep it clean. Maybe families opting to have it done early are just hoping to prevent something uncomfortable and painful in the future (ie: horrible infection, etc)? 

I personally don't think that the choice whether or not to circ is really anyone's business but the family's. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but let's just remember that what works for some, may not work for others. This has been practiced for years (if not hundreds of years), and if it was abusive or cruel, then I'm pretty sure it would have become illegal.

So, if you do not agree with circ, then great! I hope ur kids are all happy and healthy with their foreskins, and if u wanna snip it, then also great! One less thing to worry about later! 

See...it IS possible to talk civilly about this topic! I think the one thing we might forget when discussing such a heated topic is that no one is saying that anyone else is a bad parent for making that choice...at least, I hope no one is saying anyone else is a bad parent. That would be extremely ignorant and rude. Please have your say, but do not think it is EVER ok to judge/criticize someone else's parenting. Walk a mile in the others' shoes before making snap comments that could end up hurting someone.


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## MissMandieMitz

Miss_Mo said:


> Okay, I've read the entire thread (I was linked here) and haven't really found any answers to the questions that I had posted in another (now closed) thread so I am reposting.
> 
> I am on team blue but as of yet I have not had the circumcism conversation with my husband because honestly I'm not sure how I feel about it. What I would like to know before I even start to consider my feelings toward the subject is about the actual procedure.
> 
> Is it done in the hospital sometime after the baby is born but before we go home?
> Or is it done in a like a follow-up visit?
> How long does it take?
> Would my husband be allowed in while it is being done (if we decide to do it)?

If you have a healthy baby, then it probably will be done before you go home. My son was in NICU for the first 3 weeks of his life and couldn't have it done until he was over 5 pounds and out of the NICU.

It didn't take too long. 10 minutes for the anaesthesia to do it's job...then about another 10 minutes or so for the actual procedure. That was using the plastibell method, I'm not sure if it takes more or less time using a different method.

It may depend on your doctor, but both my OH and I were allowed to stay in the room. I wanted to stay in because I was afraid he would be screaming....but in reality he wasn't, only cried for a few minutes following the procedure.


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## Miss_Mo

Thanks TigerLady & MissMM - I will talk to my OB at my next appointment when I bring her my birthplan.

I think I just wanted to have some knowledge of the procedure before hand because I wasn't very comfortable with many of the pages that I found online as they seemed to always be biased either for or against so I couldn't be sure their 'facts' were very accurate.


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## MissEfendi

The father of my baby wanted the baby to be circumcised, I orginally agreed and then decided I was not going to do it when I read up about it. I presumed it would be done in a hospital until I found out that hospital will not perform circumcision unless there is a medical reason to do so, but other than that as my son is developing inside me , I was just hit by this overwhelming instincts that my role as a mother is to protect him and love him, and I do not have the right to remove any part of his anatomy based on cultural and religious beliefs. He is going to be born with a foreskin so obviously it is there for a reason, and who am I to remove it?
People can bang on about hygiene and stuff but we don't live in a desert with no access to water and soap, so there is NO excuse for anyone to catch germs and diseases with condoms, hot running water and soap. And beside, I know men who ARE circumcised that DO have STDs among other things. Having a circumised penis is NOT an excuse to be slack on practising safe sex and hygiene.

Us humans don't really need our tonsils and both kidneys, so should we remove it just because it _might_ prevent problems in the future? I think not and I think exactly the same about circumcision.
My son will be absolutely perfect as he is, and that includes his foreskin, and after his stressful journey to get here, and all the stress and injections he will endure in his life, I won't be inflicting circumcision on him.
Of course the ex is not happy about it, but I don't care.


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## redpoppy

How can I resist posting on such a topic?

two quick points, the second VERY important to me.

1. People will do as they please and a one off painful procedure which had been done for millennia (the ancient Egyptians did it) most likely resulting from cultures realising that babies having circumcisions is a lot less painful than grown men having it, and the tendency for grown men to be sexually as active as they can be and generally a lot more unhygienic than their female counterparts (ever lived with boys?) means that calling it barbaric or child abuse or horrific is in my opinion scandal mongering and a little too emotional and unstable. I was never hit as a child. Never a finger laid on me. But I accept that that is how other parents choose to discipline their children and although my instincts say its BETTER to not do that, I respect that parents (for the most part) do the best they can and that every smack is not a form of child abuse. In a world where there are FAR more inhumane and disgusting things going on, I think its silly to get all in a tizzy about things like this.

2. To the people who think female genital mutilation is anything like male circumcision. PLEASE INFORM YOURSELVES. Admittedly there are lighter forms of FGM which do not involve horrific and brutal mutilation and are small nicks to remove the hood of the clitoris, in this case, if done in proper hygienic environments, each to their own, (this is rumoured to sometimes increase sexual pleasure in women) but there are cultures which routinely mutilate their little and not so little girls in barbaric situations which results in ending of some or all sexual enjoyment.

A boy is never circumcised with a look to minimize his sexuality but girls are. There are holy men in this world who encourage societies to continue to mutilate their girls so that they do not have healthy and active sex drives to keep them "pure". It is a heart breaking phenomena and one that is EXTREMELY difficult to tackle. Contact the organisation "forward" in the UK for more info.

As for girls getting their ears pierced. Either do it when they're too young to remember or when they're old enough to ask! Not when they're 5 years old and have to scream for what seems like hours while some idiot sprays cold stuff on their ears and tries to stick a needle in them. :cry: Horrible. HOWEVER I have forgiven my mother for this. Goes to show that such things aren't really that important. My mother was a fantastic mother that made me an independent, caring, curious, artistic person with a lust for life and a broad range of interests, a good sense of justice, compassion and lack of prejudice. If you called her a child abuser for this one thing I'd be inclined to knock your lights out. :devil: ;)

Chill and enjoy life peeps. There are people fleeing there homes because of war and starving because of corruption. We can do more about those things than change people's views on whether a few moments of babies privileged life are sacred or not. My opinion.


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## jelix9408

my OH is not circumcized never had any problems. If we have a boy he doesnt want sharp objects getting close to his sons "junk" he hates the idea. he says he was fine and his son will be too.


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## Dukechick

This topic just seems to keep coming up huh?? LOL.......

This was brought up on my birthing class last week, and I almost fell off my chair. It's just of those topics that you can talk about for hours, days, weeks, or years on end, and it's not going to change the way some people think about it. I didn't open my mouth once during that topic. My husband and I just looked at each other and laughed. Well, he was muttering under his breath, but that's about it. I was waiting for fists to start flying!

Sighhhhhhhhh.................. This is up there with the topics of Abortion, Religion and Politics. I just won't talk about it with people. It's an arguement that is going no where. I put my 2 cents in earlier, and I'm NOT saying that everyone is fighting about it (because I know they're not), I just think it's interesting how strongly people think about it.


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## redpoppy

Yeah, well, I think people need to chill. It's each to their own. It's like people who are against abortion, (and I don't know what I am quite honestly; I care about people, and i care about babies, there are too many issues and circumstances etc. in my view to have a hard and fast view) but yeah, if YOU don't want an abortion, don't have one. If YOU don't want to circumcise our child, don't do it.

Vice versa for those who do. 

Just stop judging people and acting morally superior either way.


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