# Fertility and pre/peri menopause



## SWLondonMum

Hi, I used to use b&b when I was ttc #2 but sadly it never happened :nope:
I was 35 when ds1 was born and ttc #2 from 37 to now (I am 40) though we are coming to terms with the fact that we may never have another child. 
I had fertility tests and was told I was sub fertile (ie fertility lower than average). Just recently I was chatting to a woman who experienced peri menopausal symptoms from age 40 and has just had a hysterectomy aged 48. It had never occurred to me that the pre menopausal stage might come so early and last so long but she said its possible that I'm in the early stages because of symptoms I mentioned and although it's early days and not a problem (yet) if my symptoms don't affect my life, I should keep an eye on them and get tested if they started to get worse. My symptoms are:short cycles 25-26 days, very heavy bleeding day 1-2 with clots (thought I was just having early m/c but apparently a sign of pre menopause :nope:), different kind if period pain to before, extreme fatigue, dizziness and headaches, all noticeably worse over the last year.
I've been checking out information online but can't seem to find an answer to one thing. If my fertility is low (declined at a younger than average age), does that mean my menopause will start/arrive earlier? All I can find us info saying once you start peri/pre menopause your fertility will decline but I can't find anything the other way round, ie low fertility is an indicator of early menopause?
Sorry if this is the wrong forum but it seemed the closest. It seems like I might have a long perimenopause ahead (if I actually am starting) and am not necessarily going to have the actual menopause for a long time but it's a really strange feeling when not long ago I thought I would be pregnant again. I know you can get pregnant until your actual menopause when your periods stop, but after 3yrs already trying I'm not expecting to! :cry:
Anyone else thought they might have this or actually had this happen???


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## KL50

I realize this is an older post.. but wondering how you are SWLondonMum? 
I am in the same boat. 33, waiting to see the Reproductive Endocrinologist. Can't get in until May and nothing else my OBGYN will do (which I found a little odd, but maybe it is how it works?) my blood work suggests I am pre menopausal. I haven't had my period at all since November last year. So I am scared to say the least. before that my cycles were like yours.


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## Briss

Hi ladies,

I might be in the same boat although not 100% sure what's going on. My FSh is high for my age and AMH is on the lower side which basically indicates low ovarian reserve and proximity to menopause. My cycle is regular but it got shorter after I had laparoscopy but after 2 failed IVF it moved back to normal again. (26 days is actually my norm) We tried IVF but my ovaries are not responding well to stimulation which is also an indication that egg reserves are low. When I was about 33 I developed acne (never had acne when I was a teenage) and I suddenly noticed that my skin lost its firmness. I did not think much about it but now I am thinking that it might be then that my fertility started to decline and I entered pre menopausal thing. I heard it can last for 10 years before the actual menopause and during that time you can still get pregnant. I am so scared


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## KL50

Briss said:


> Hi ladies,
> 
> I might be in the same boat although not 100% sure what's going on. My FSh is high for my age and AMH is on the lower side which basically indicates low ovarian reserve and proximity to menopause. My cycle is regular but it got shorter after I had laparoscopy but after 2 failed IVF it moved back to normal again. (26 days is actually my norm) We tried IVF but my ovaries are not responding well to stimulation which is also an indication that egg reserves are low. When I was about 33 I developed acne (never had acne when I was a teenage) and I suddenly noticed that my skin lost its firmness. I did not think much about it but now I am thinking that it might be then that my fertility started to decline and I entered pre menopausal thing. I heard it can last for 10 years before the actual menopause and during that time you can still get pregnant. I am so scared

Briss. :hugs:
I am scared too... and now yes, I go back and think about things that could have been signs that this was happening but I just never knew.


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## Briss

KL50, thanks. what is your FSH/AMH?


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## KL50

Briss~FSH is 99.1 which on a range chart is post menopausal ?!... so not even sure what that means right now. I also have hypothyroidism. 
And AMH, I don't know as it wasn't in the group of tests from OB dr. I am sure the reproductive doctor will collect for that. 
I meet with a reproductive endocrinologist next week. Just ready for some answers and what all of this means. I don't feel like the OBGYN gave me much to go on. I understand they will have to do more labs, dig deeper but still, I have been worried to death for going on 2 weeks. 
How about you?


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## Briss

KL50, I am not sure if you have a different scale for FSH, 99 just seems way too high. would be good to repeat it in case it's just a one off. Mine is fluctuating and the highest so far was 19. the cut off point for IVF is 15 so clinics are not very enthusiastic in taking me on for IVF. we also have low sperm count issue so IVF seems like the only option for us so we are just stuck. AMH seems more reliable egg reserve indication as it does not fluctuate as much as FSH. We've been TTC for almost 4 years now and I have tried everything under the sun to get my FSH down but it just keeps going up. We are going to carry on with IVF (once I recover from the previous attempt) because I just cant see what else we can do... so depressing


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## KL50

Bliss, yes I hope they do re-evaluate those levels... I am not sure what they mean (other than what I can look up on my own) and my OB told me my levels indicated pre menopause. I really really like my OB doctor but I feel kind of tossed to the side with this one. So hard to get a valid response from her and they won't go into further testing-they would rather I go on to the reproductive endocrine doctor. Which is fine, as I know this needs to be reviewed more in depth. Just, as I am sure you experience, creates a world of anxiety in the meantime. 
Have you tried or thought of acupuncture? I see a lot about it and hear a generally positive response. After meeting with the doctor next week and talking to her about it also, I would like to try it.


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## Briss

KL50, I spent a year on Chinese medicine, read lots of books, did acupuncture weekly and drank nasty herbs twice a day. I changed 3 practitioners and at times was cooking raw herbs (as Chinese doctors advised these are most potent form of herbs and based on their recipes) but unfortunately after a year on this tough regime my FSH only got higher. I also heard lots of success stories but for some reason it just did not work for me. Also my cycle was short while I was on Chinese herbs/acu. The only good thing while on acu/herbs is that I had no clots during AF. I do not mean to discourage you but tbh, I regret I spent the whole year on this I should have gone straight to IVF, feel like time is running out.


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## KL50

Briss, oh wow... well I know not every solution will work for everyone and you may regret it but maybe good you tried at least. I, for one, have a harder time wondering what if.. (if I don't try). 
Sorry you are going through this :( Such a tough road, but all you can do is try.


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## Briss

My FS told me two years ago that my FSH is rising and that it will continue to rise, I just did not want to believe her cos I read so many stories of women who lowered their FSH somehow and got pregnant. FS was quite confident that once FSH starts rising it will continue. so disappointing but I just was not ready for IVf. it's a big thing to accept it as inevitable evil. 

In case it's helpful below is the list of things I've tried before going for IVF:

fresh wheat grass juice every other day
acupuncture once a week and Chinese herbs twice a day for the last year. My Dh was also taking Chinese herbs for sperm. 
cupping once a week and reflexology occasionally
I consumed literally tonnes of vitamins and supplements and various super foods (e.g. fresh Royal Jelly, goji berries etc etc), During my last IVf I was on 600 coq10, I practically live on greens and veg juices. my diet is healthy and alkaline (but my vice is chocolate)
I gave up coffee (my favourite thing!!) for almost a year and replaced it with nettle/raspberry leaf/ red clover/ mint/mate teas 
I wash with natural tar soup (have not used any synthetic body wash in over 2 years)
I do not take any medication
Tried yoga but could not stick with it

Vitamins:

Pregnacare Conception 
400-600 COQ10 
2,000 EPO (before O)
1,000 Fish oils 
1,000 Vitamin C (after O)
800 Vitamin E (before O)
4,000 Vitamin D (when it's not sunny)
800 Folate (NOT Folic acid)
Vitamin B complex 
liquid iron supps
Fresh wheatgrass juice/ veggy juice
raspberry leaf/ red clover tea (before O)
Nettle/ mint / mate tea
ginger and lemon tea (after O)
Fresh grapefruit juice (for EWCM before O)

I do not take DHEA, it's a hormone so you should be careful, check your levels first
I was taking fresh Royal Jelly but did not notice any benefits and my cycle was shorter


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## KL50

Yes, I will plan on speaking to my specialist about anything before trying. I am sure, like anything it is all relative and effects everyone differently as every body is different and outside factors effect us all differently. 
Right now, it comes in waves... comes and goes... I stressed to the point of being sick once I got the first call on the blood work. It's been a couple weeks so I am just kinda floating along, not getting too crazy as I don't know what to expect and don't want to get too ahead of myself. It is what it is I suppose. Of course I want to try what I can. I am very open to all options right now. 
Sounds like you have been too. 
This is a really stupid question, but I have not done any research on IVF so far... but how does it start? I am sure it is situational but do you start with supplements first? I am not even having my period right now (scariest part for me as I am terrified, that's it, all eggs have disappeared). So I wonder if she will start me on an estrogen/progesterone.


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## Briss

KL50, they would probably start with basics like bloods, scan to see how many follicles you have, AMH to check your reserve and based on that they will recommend the relevant protocol for you. although I guess you could investigate first why you do not have your AF, it does not necessarily follow that you are approaching menopause, maybe you have some hormonal imbalance that can be fixed with hormonal treatment?


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## KL50

Briss, yes possibly hormonal. We will see. I go on Wednesday.


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## KL50

KL50 said:


> Briss, yes possibly hormonal. We will see. I go on Wednesday.

Oh, I sent you a PM too! :)


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## Pirate

I know I'm not over 35, but the topic of this thread is particularly interesting to me. Last week I was diagnosed with Diminished Ovarian Reserve (AMH=.53, AFC=5, FSH=9.something). I'm 32 so these numbers are all quite surprising. My RE said that it's not impossible for me to get pregnant naturally, but he recommended going straight to injectibles and IVF to give myself the best shot of getting pregnant. Hubs and I decided against going that route (I am a firm believer that there is a right choice for every couple and this is the right choice for us-I have no issues with IVF, it's just not for me). I've had a hard time processing the fact that I'll probably never get pregnant, but now it seems I have early menopause to think about too. :(


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## KL50

Pirate-Sorry to hear that. I am 33 with all of this going on. I will be interested in getting my lab results back with my numbers and see. When I went last week she thought the same thing Diminished Ovarian Reserve but wanted to wait until getting lab work back to really say. She also did an ultrasound of my ovaries/uterus. (this was my first visit with the repro doc) and she said my ovaries are small (not a problem necessarily) but she did see a follicle and basically told me to go home and DTD those two nights in a row and every other night. 
I am so confused.. or such a roller coaster of emotions rather. When I go back I wonder if she will do another ultrasound to see where that follicle status is. She said I could ovulate without a period. (I haven't had a period since Nov). 
It is unnerving to think about early menopause. have to be on meds replace estrogen (it's a lot like thyroid) but also consider risk for other health problems that can lead to like osteoporosis and heart disease..


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## Mypreciouskid

My symptoms were identical to yours...23-25 day cycles, spotting days before an AF, and horribly heavy periods with large clots. I was sure I was gearing up for menopause. I tried clomid and progesterone suppositories....and nothing happened. Stopped all treatment, and got pregnant. Don't lose hope! We were close to 3 yrs of ttc.


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## KL50

Mypreciouskid said:


> My symptoms were identical to yours...23-25 day cycles, spotting days before an AF, and horribly heavy periods with large clots. I was sure I was gearing up for menopause. I tried clomid and progesterone suppositories....and nothing happened. Stopped all treatment, and got pregnant. Don't lose hope! We were close to 3 yrs of ttc.

Mypreciouskid-I saw your signature, are you currently pregnant with your 4th? when the above was going on was that before you had your 1st baby or somewhere in between? Just curious. That does make me feel hopeful!


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## Briss

Pirate, I am very sorry you are going through such touch time. still, diminished ovarian research does not mean you cant get pregnant naturally. it might be difficult for you to do stim IVF but if you still have a regular cycle you can get pregnant naturally. your FSH is normal actually which is great. 

KL50, did you get your lab results back?


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## Pirate

Thanks, Briss. We're still trying and know that it can happen, we just have much lower (more realistic) expectations that it will actually happen. Thankfully I do have very regular cycles and always get positive OPKs and a temp shift, so I do have that going for me.


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## KL50

Pirate, that is good with regular cycles. 
Thanks for asking Briss (I msg you a bit more detail) but FSH was super high 67 and AMH was super low .16, so I don't have such high hopes. She said she could give me a shot to try and spark egg release and felt there was a 10% chance. She said AMH was not 0.. but .16 is not far off. 
Super sad, working through the feelings. Considering options... just don't know what to think.


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## Pirate

So sorry, KL50. This just sucks!


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## Briss

KL50, I am very sorry your FSH is very high so they are unlikely to offer you IVF but maybe there is a way to restore your ovulation so if your DH has good sperm you could still try naturally.


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