# Manually flipping a breech baby



## Kat541

I watch on the baby shows, when a baby is breech, they just automatically do a C-Section. One time, I watched a doctor and nurse manually turn the baby around from the outside. They just pushed really hard while they guided the butt around. The nurse would guide the head in conjunction as well. It took less than a minute, and the woman didn't appear in too much pain.
Why don't they do this all the time? What's to lose if they were going to do the section anyway?


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## cassarita

I think they don't do it all the time because it can cause the baby to go into distress.I have alos heard storie about babies cords weren't long enough to be head down or that it was wrapped around their neck.
From what I have heard it is extremely painful!
I would never do it, I would opt for a c-section.


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## chuck

Most people with a Breech baby are offered a manual turn called an ECV, BUT it has a few risks associated and it can be very painful.

A friend of mine looked like she had been beaten badly she was black and blue afterwards bless her!

It can cause placenta abruption and put baby in distress risking an early delivery or EMCS being needed.

It doesnt always work either!

Its a shame so few people will birth a breech baby.


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## Kat541

chuck said:


> Its a shame so few people will birth a breech baby.

Why is that? Because it's harder, or because they don't want the cord around their neck?


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## goddess25

Most medical personnel just wont birth a breach baby especially over here in N America. A ECV doesn't always work and it can be distressing for the baby and painful for the mom, that is why a C section is generally recommended.


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## chuck

Breech is another variation of normal, people have become sacred of it because so few practitioners will advocate it is being normal but with different risks to baby. They opt for CS because to the practitioners it seems more controlled.


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## cassarita

I duno maybe that's how seem people view a normal birth but I would NEVER EVER have a natural delivery with a breech baby. There are so many things that can go wrong. I would rather take the safe way out then the proud way out.


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## Kat541

cassarita said:


> I duno maybe that's how seem people view a normal birth but I would NEVER EVER have a natural delivery with a breech baby. There are so many things that can go wrong. I would rather take the safe way out then the proud way out.

I'm agreeing now. I've done some research, and there are some scary complications. But the one that settles it for me is a connection found between breech birth and autism in this study: Deborah Bilder, MD, Judith Pinborough-Zimmerman, PhD, Judith Miller, PhD and William McMahon, MD. "Prenatal, Perinatal, and Neonatal Factors Associated With Autism Spectrum Disorders." Pediatrics, 123(5), May 2009, pp. 1293-1300

As well as rapid decompression of the baby's head can cause brain damage.


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## cassarita

I think it all comes down to personal opinion. I just think that sometimes mom can get to wrapped up in what THEY want and how THEY see their birth going and try to control every aspect because that's what they think is best. Yes it might be true that some doctors push for c-sections but in the end do you have a medical degree?

This is just my personal opinion so I'm not trying to bash anyone but sometimes I feel like women really need to just take a step back and just go with the flow sometimes. I read so many stories about how women wanted their birth to be exactly the way they wanted it and when it didn't end up that way they had PPD and weren't bonded with the baby. In the end we all want the same thing. A happy healthy baby.


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## Flowerbaby

My baby is breech at the minute, flexed (complete breech). I had a scan at 36 weeks to confirm this and was offered an ECV which i turned down, i dont want anybody to mess with my LO, if she is quite comfortable there then let her be i say! If she naturally wants to turn herself then she will. I have always had this awful thought of the cord being around her neck or too short right from the word go so i just want her to be left alone. Im booked in for a c-section at 39+1 (12 days, eeeekkk), they will scan me again that morning and if she has turned i will be sent home to but tbh i think she is quite happy where she is! 

I definetly wouldnt want a natural breech birth, but each to there own. My mam was a midwife many moons ago and has done plenty of breech deliverys but now we have the option of c-sect i think thats why so many doctors and us ladies go down that route. 

Im easy either way right now whether she turns or not, infact a part of me hopes she stays put so that i can have her here earlier and that im not panicing when i do feel her turn that she is getting wrapped up in her cord......the days couldnt go quick enough right now!!!:happydance:


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## chuck

I just cannot understand why people see major surgery as being the safe option?!

There are huge amounts of risk of undergoing major abdominal surgery to baby and mother and baby and even more so with a breech baby...they just get brushed under the carpet because of the familiarity with the idea of a surgical delivery and the illusion of control when in hospital surrounded by people that 'know better'.

Each to their own but I'd VBAC a breech in the future and I'd do it at home, but thats an opinion after a 2 years of a lot of reading and soul searching after being mistreated by the people who know better.


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## mojobear

My first Baby was breech, I agreed to a ECV, that was both unsuccessful and very painful. Luckily, I was then booked in for a CS (which would never have been my choice originally) during this it was found that I had a bicornuate uterus (heart shaped), which was rotated to the left, my bladder is attached to it, as well as having fibroids and a vaginal birth would have been dangerous to both me and baby and would have most likely resulted in a emergency cs. I bled very heavily following the section.

Also if an emergency cs is then needed from what I have heard/read it has more drawbacks that a planned cs.

Another point is that they have found what they call a window in my womb (where it has stretched so much it has gone very very thin) and have been told by my consultant that is may have been caused by my ECV?

Although I guess a lot of this sounds scary I feel so very fortunate that baby was breech and I had a planned cs, I will be having my second planned section in approximately 6 weeks and am keeping my fingers x for another positive outcome, although I have been warned I am high risk for needing a hysterectomy at the same time xx


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## momofone08

My first was breech. They tried to turn her manually from the outside. It was the most painful experience ever, but I just wanted them to turn her so the pain didn't matter to me. I was told that since she didn't turn I had no other option. I am vbac'ing this time.


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## chuck

People think I'm very anti CS....I am not, I am anti pointless CS.

Far too often people think its the safe option when it really is not safe at all.


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## silver_penny

My first was an undiagnosed breech. When I got to the hospital, baby was already at +3 station so they "allowed" me to try for a vaginal birth, which I did. My DS is NOT autistic, does NOT have brain damage, and is very healthy. Many of the studies done on breech vaginal births include those babies with abnormalities in the first place, which could be one reason they are breech. Otherwise, breech presentation is just a variation of normal, and the doctors don't have experience in proper management of a vaginal breech delivery. The doctors would rather perform a major surgery than increase their skills with natural births.


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## pandinha

I had my last OB appointment on the 22nd of March. At that time we found out my LO had turned breech from the day before and I was scheduled for an ECV the next day then either induction if successful, or C-Section if not. I was a bit upset with the OB as I had been having contractions and was dilated to 3 earlier that week and had actually been sent home from the hospital twice, the day before and two days before that. The OB did apologize wen I arrived at the hospital for sending me home. I arrived at the hospital on the 23rd and 9am and waited around in the bed until about noon when they came in with the ultrasound machine to start the ECV. Fortunately for both me and my LO, he had managed to turn himself back around and was then head down again. So all we needed to do was proceed with the induction. 

I was very much wanting to have a natural delivery and hearing him being breech the day before after being head down the entire pregnancy was a bit disappointing to me. I agreed to the ECV cause I was really not wanting the C-Section due to the complications, risks, recovery, etc. I figured that I should at least try the ECV, it was the only other option to avoid a C-Section. I convinced myself that I was probably more than likely going to be getting the CS, so seeing LO on the ultrasound head down made me very happy and relieved!


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## thestarsfall

Not sure if there is much to this other than rumor but circulating around when I was going to Massage school they said that they can get some babies to turn around by putting cold up where the head is and some warmth down where it should be and then the baby moves itself into the proper position. Don't quote me on that though...lol


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## Kat541

thestarsfall said:


> Not sure if there is much to this other than rumor but circulating around when I was going to Massage school they said that they can get some babies to turn around by putting cold up where the head is and some warmth down where it should be and then the baby moves itself into the proper position. Don't quote me on that though...lol

I heard that putting headphones with loud music at the top of the uterus would get the baby to want to turn around, also. Believe me, I'll be trying those tricks. I think I'll have the ECV if the baby is breech while I'm in labor. Then, if there is an emergency, I'm already due and they would be prepared for doing the cs for the breech anyway.


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## Lizzie K

silver_penny said:


> My first was an undiagnosed breech. When I got to the hospital, baby was already at +3 station so they "allowed" me to try for a vaginal birth, which I did. My DS is NOT autistic, does NOT have brain damage, and is very healthy. Many of the studies done on breech vaginal births include those babies with abnormalities in the first place, which could be one reason they are breech. Otherwise, breech presentation is just a variation of normal, and the doctors don't have experience in proper management of a vaginal breech delivery. The doctors would rather perform a major surgery than increase their skills with natural births.

They would rather perform major surgery because they are surgeons. That is the basic truth. There are very few OB's who would rather let a labor go naturally (even when baby is in perfect position) than try to perform a lot of unnecessary interventions, which a lot of times lead to c-section. The labor is not progressing as fast as they would like or the textbook "ideal" and they use pit. The pit causes mom more pain, so she gets an epidural. Oh, the epidural slows or stalls labor? Up the pit! Uh oh, baby's in distress due to the pit, time for a c-section!


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## Kat541

What's a pit?

Also, I've noticed a trend on _A Baby Story_ that once a mom's labor goes over 12 hours, they talk her into a section, or some pitocin. They are always saying that the labor is just not progressing as fast as they would like. My mom said she had contractions for over 70 hours with me before I was ready to be pulled out with the forceps. Now days, they would have long before put her out of her misery with a section. I did end up with neck issues in the form of having the cartilage between my 3rd and 4th vertibrae diminished, but I was not breech.


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## Lizzie K

Kat541 said:


> What's a pit?
> 
> Also, I've noticed a trend on _A Baby Story_ that once a mom's labor goes over 12 hours, they talk her into a section, or some pitocin. They are always saying that the labor is just not progressing as fast as they would like. My mom said she had contractions for over 70 hours with me before I was ready to be pulled out with the forceps. Now days, they would have long before put her out of her misery with a section. I did end up with neck issues in the form of having the cartilage between my 3rd and 4th vertibrae diminished, but I was not breech.

Pitocin


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## Kat541

Duh, sheesh!


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## Kat541

BnB posted an article about this:
https://www.momtastic.com/parenting/features/171541-breech-babies-and-ecv-external-cephalic-version


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## Sciencegal

My first was a breech.  I opted for the manual turning. They monitored the baby very closely in the process. It didn't hurt very much, but my daughter went into distress in the process and we had an immediate c-section. Unfortunately, I had a bad reaction to anesthesia and developed a spinal headache. Horrible experience.... I definitely want a vbac this time, but not sure if my hospital does it...


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## Bats11

We all learn from our own experiences, i personally prefer vaginal birth, i was lucky to have given birth both times vaginally, but if for what ever reason i had to have a cs, im just glad its available, safety of our babies comes first.


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## katealim

My second daughter was delivered naturally as a breech baby....I def. wouldn't recommend it!!!


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## thestarsfall

My mom told me this story about how one of the ladies she knew when living in Peru had a breech baby and the midwife told the lady to run around the table clockwise 8 times to turn it...and it worked! lol.


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## polaris

My son was breech. I tried ECV but it didn't work - the doctor thought that the position of the placenta was in his way and stopping him from turning. I didn't find the ECV particularly painful although definitely uncomfortable. I had a planned C-section which thankfully went very smoothly and I had a very good recovery. I was devastated at the time but I do think that it was the right decision. My OH's brother was an undiagnosed breech delivery and he was oxygen-deprived during the birth and has very severe cerebral palsy and is wheelchair bound and cannot feed himself or speak. So for me, a C-section seemed like the safer option for baby even though I was really upset at the time and it wasn't the birth that I would have wanted.


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## Quackquack99

chuck said:


> Breech is another variation of normal, people have become sacred of it because so few practitioners will advocate it is being normal but with different risks to baby. They opt for CS because to the practitioners it seems more controlled.

I had a young registrar who did the c section, she told me she could do a frank breech vaginal birth but didn't want to risk a footling breech. I admired her honesty. But breech birth are very possible. I've watched a few online x


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## Quackquack99

The only reason why I wouldn't accept an ecv is because my uterus is half the size of a normal uterus and it very unlikely to work x


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