# Did I make a horrible mistake? Should I have tried harder?



## AlwaysPraying

My kid has been hell to put to bed since he was 1 year old (he's now 2 years 1 month). Long story short bedtimes destroyed me but he would always sleep until at least 7:30 at the earliest. From 7:30 -9:30pm when he finally gave in and went to bed ruined me and my family every night. 

I decided to move him to a big bed this week, baby coming in 7 weeks, I had to do something. Now we have to lay with him to get him to sleep. So he's not a holy terror just a different type of tiring. But now he's waking up at 6am. Today he woke up at 4am. And now he's free to walk around his room. At least bettor he was contained in his crib. 

It's 6am and I'm sitting here sobbing, so tired and snapping at him. 4am is bullshit to wake up I tried everything to get him back to sleep. The only thing he enjoyed was me lying on his bed. He was at least quiet. He finally shut his eyes at 5:45 for 15 mins. 

I can't put him back in the crib because we ruined the crib changing it to a bed (its one that converts). Plus the crib bedtimes didn't work anyways. 

It's been over a flipping year of sleep issues and I'm broken. I have done everything so please don't tell me to change this or that. I know lots of peoe have it worse with night time wakings and early mornings. All my problem was before is it took him 1.5 hours to get to sleep crying, yelling, and getting mad during that time. Why didn't I just put up with it? At least I got a full nights sleep. Now he still takes over an hour to sleep, without crying because we lay with him. I'm sure he wouldn't have cried if we laid with him when we had the crib. 

This next baby is coming in 7 weeks and I'm terrified. I feel like I keep making the wrong decisions and choices and nothing works. And I'm a shit mom because I don't want to lay with him, but I just can't do that every night and very soon i actually physicslly wont be able to because of the new baby. We start bedtime at 7pm he doesn't fall asleep until 9:30. Besides full out cry it out I don't know what to do. Even then I've left him for over half an hour freakig out with mo sucsess. 

I'm past my limit.


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## Jem88

*hugs* Sophie's been a terrible sleeper too and still wakes 2-3 times during the night. We changed her cot into a bed at 18 months and she took to it fine and we had no problems, we could put her to bed, snuggle her in then leave the room and she'd either go straight to sleep or chat/play for 10mins then fall asleep. It wasn't until 2 months later she just started screaming when/if we tried to leave the room - so I've been sitting with her since until she falls asleep for nap and bedtime. 

It takes Sophie around 30-40mins to settle and fall asleep at bedtime so i guess i'm not sat there for hours. I'm due our 2nd baby in just under 7 weeks too and like you i'm not sure what i'm doing to do when it comes to Sophie's bedtime i guess i'll come up with a plan at the time lol.

I'm not sure what to suggest hun but just letting you know your not alone. x


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## lindblum

My 1st child was a nightmare to put to sleep. We co-slept until she was 3and then stopped because i was expecting another child. She still slept in the room with me but not in the same bed. 

I don't know if this will work for you, but would you consider moving your childs cotbed into your room? maybe have it right up next to your bed for the first week and then gradually move it away until it's across the room? This is what I have done with my second. It does take time ( about a month) but it worked for us. 

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time, you're not a shit mum, raising a child is hard and you are doing the best you can xxx


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## Jade--x

:hugs: My LO is an utter nightmare at bedtime to. He's 3 and a half and refuses to go to bed, sneaks downstairs, screams and shouts, climbs in his brothers cot, throws things in the cot at him while he's asleep, totally trashes the room and tantrums, sneaks into my bathroom and puts whole rolls of toilet roll in the toilet and blocks it..The list is endless! And if he's asleep before 10pm I am lucky! (He gets put to bed at 7pm)

He has a stairgate on his door which did help for a period of time, but he can now open it so it does nothing now, other than I can hear him open it when he's trying to sneak out. I just have to battle with it. He does go through a few days where he'll wake me up before 6am and it drives me mental! Not only does he wake up he wakes his brother up too and once they're both awake that's it there's no settling them back to sleep. 

I know it's hard but I'm holding onto the hope that he's not going to be like this forever. I've also got them so they're both in the same routine, their nap time is the same and their bedtime is the same and if I've been kept up I sometimes nap with them. 

Do you have a gate on the bedroom door? If not maybe it's worth a try? Someone else suggested to me to get a clock and teach him that until the hands are at a certain point he can't come out of bed and that he has to stay in bed. I know your LO is younger, but maybe trying to start now might mean it helps in the future.


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## AlwaysPraying

Glad I'm not alone. How come it feels like I'm such crap with my patience? I wish I wanted to lay with him. But by bedtime I'm so exhausted I just don't have it in me to watch him screw around until he falls asleep. I had such a short temper it's not fair to him. 

I have a gate on the door and he tore it down this am. It's one that fits snug not bolted in so it's not hard to tear off. Still now he knows how to do it. I am going to get a gro clock and see if that may help the morning.


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## jojo_b

Sorry if this is wanky or patronising, but if you get a screw in stairgate on his room, can't you just child-proof his room and let him play on his own if he gets up? Fin sometimes gets up and has a random play with his toys at 3am or something insane, then takes himself back to bed when he is bored/tired. I don't go in because I know he will just go to sleep when he has done playing x


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## AlwaysPraying

That's not patronizing at all. The thing is he is waking up and coming to the door to get up. He doesn't play. Even at bedtime I tell him to play if he's not tired but hell only do it if we are in the room with us. I'd gladly let him wander about his room but he won't do that. :( he wakes up and instantly yells for us, then screams for us, then today tore down the gate when I didn't respond. Poor kid.


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## OmarsMum

I honestly think he's getting enough by sleeping for 10 hrs. Omar will not sleep more than 9-10 hrs at night. Omar's sleep was all over the place since he was 1 yr. You can try to put him in bed at 9 pm & exhaust him with some physical activity 1 hour before bedtime. Omar used to jump onthe trampoline for 30 mins before bedtime. Last night he went to bed at 8.30 pm & he woke up at 5.30 am. He took a nap for 2 hrs. 

If he sleeps for 10+ hrs at night he doesn't get a nap. He gets some relax time during the day, but I make sure he doesn't nap or else his bedtime will be a mess. 

I still cuddle him to sleep, some toddlers need settling to sleep. 2 weeks back I started to go with the flow, I stopped panicking about his sleep, we started to have a very short bedtime routine, now he's an angel at bedtime we cuddle & he falls asleep after 5-15 mins. We were also able to move his bedtime from 11 pm + to 8.30-9 pm. 

Toddlers are smart, he can sense that you are stressed out because of his sleep. Try to follow his lead, make sure he doesn't sleep more than 12-13 hrs day & night if you don't want to lie down with him to settle him to sleep, ask your OH. 

IMO, I honestly think that lying down next to him for few mins is less stressful than going back & forth to his room to put him back to bed. He might be suffering from separation anxiety which is normal at that age, this is why he needs you around. xx


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## DonnaBallona

you poor thing. I wish I had some suggestions but I don't. 

sending you huge hugs though; I sincerely hope that things get easier for you soon. stay strong xxx :hugs:


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## AlwaysPraying

Omar's mom, that makes so much sense. I was really ok with lying with him this week because he was happy. Even when it took an hour. It wasn't until today when he woke at 4am that i snapped. Reconsidering everything. What's the point of being with him if that's not even good enough. That's how it feels in the moment. 

I know I know I know he gets too much sleep and I hate myself for that. So many people here know of my troubles and it always ends up in him sleeping too long because I'm selfish and need an afternoon nap myself. Then I suffer the pain at bedtime. It's a horrible circle. 

I'm forcing myself and my husband to only let him sleep an hour a day. I have to. If that doesn't work then I'm going to just give up and he can stay awake and sleep whenever he wants.


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## OmarsMum

AlwaysPraying said:


> Omar's mom, that makes so much sense. I was really ok with lying with him this week because he was happy. Even when it took an hour. It wasn't until today when he woke at 4am that i snapped. Reconsidering everything. What's the point of being with him if that's not even good enough. That's how it feels in the moment.
> 
> I know I know I know he gets too much sleep and I hate myself for that. So many people here know of my troubles and it always ends up in him sleeping too long because I'm selfish and need an afternoon nap myself. Then I suffer the pain at bedtime. It's a horrible circle.
> 
> I'm forcing myself and my husband to only let him sleep an hour a day. I have to. If that doesn't work then I'm going to just give up and he can stay awake and sleep whenever he wants.

:hugs:

I snapped several times early in the morning earlier. But I used to go to bed at 2-3 am, I wasn't getting much sleep, but he was sleeping at night, he didn't understand why mummy is shouting, it broke my heart when he once asked me to stop shouting while crying :( 

Now I go to bed 1 hr after he falls asleep, sometimes I'm too tired to leave bed so I just go to bed with him at 8.30-9 pm :blush:

I suffer from insomnia, I didn't sleep for more than 4 hrs stretch since I gave birth to him, those days I'm getting 6-7 hrs. It makes a difference to my mood. 

I really hope it settles soon Hun :hugs:


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## starangel27

Hi we also suffer with our low sleep. We now let him nap no later than 1pm then he will go down for 8.30 to 9am he just doesn't seem to need much sleep. He also runs in our room at 3 or 4am every morning I used to get so frustrated patting him back to sleep we now take it in turns to take him downstairs give him a milk cuddle him back to sleep then carry him back bed. In the pitch black


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## AlwaysPraying

It's 2 in the afternoon and he's been with his grandparents all day. I've done nothing but lie around. I have a headache now thinking and re thinking myself and scenarios. I'm going to go to bed earlier too, I have to. So what about when baby comes and I'm extra tired? 

I hate to sound like such a bummer but even days like today that I have to myself I seem to ruin. Done nothing, house a mess and no more relaxed. I don't know how to shut it off. I don't know how to just be ok with the mess, with the tired, with the terrible twos.


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## Vicks

Joe is the same, I dread bedtime as he takes between an hour and sometimes up to 3 hours to get to sleep. We have the same routine, starting at 7pm but he screams, shouts and I lie with him (when he'll let me) til he is asleep and then sneak downstairs. If he sleeps til 5am, that's a good day, most days it's a 3-4am wake up (midnight was the worst :-( ). He wakes most nights atleast twice and I'm exhausted! I wish I could offer some advice hun, but like you, I've tried everything but Joe just doesn't seem to need much sleep! 
Sending hugs to you xx


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## minties

How late in the day is he napping? There is no way Thomas will go to bed at 7:30 if he's napped beyond midday. And if he goes to bed that early, he'll be up super early.


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## AlwaysPraying

I wake him at 3:30 at the latest and I'm sure that's too late. He used to be awake from 8am-1:30 (5.5 hours) and then from 3:30-8:30 (5 hours) so figured it was ok?


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## moomoo

Hugs hun!

Our DS was an awful sleeper from birth, he would do the exact same as your DS. We used to lie on the floor until he was asleep or he would scream for hours and hours. We also stopped his nap as it was meaning he wasn't even tired until 9/10pm at night.

Once the above stopped working, we went through another bad patch where NOTHING would work! Sometimes we used to hold his door closed << bad mummy alert :( he would scream with or without us in the room for hours!

One day we bribed him with staying in bed "if you stay in bed all night you can have a trip in daddy's van/walk to the park/see nanny" and sure as hell he'd stay in bed without a peep!!! Wtf!!

Since then something just clicked! And he has been great ever since!

I won't lie, we've had some shocking times but you get through it!

X


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## minties

The 5 hour rule went right out the window here a month ago (sigh). Yesterday Thomas slept for an hour at 2:30, I wasn't home and OH let him fall asleep on his lap, grr! He didn't fall asleep until 11:30. I find he needs 7-8 hours awake after a nap. I hate this age for sleep.


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## moomoo

AlwaysPraying said:


> I wake him at 3:30 at the latest and I'm sure that's too late. He used to be awake from 8am-1:30 (5.5 hours) and then from 3:30-8:30 (5 hours) so figured it was ok?

This seems quite late to me, DD naps until the latest 3... Any later than that and she will not settle for ages to sleep?


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## Tilliepink

My dd goes down for nap at 11-1 then to bed at 7-7. If she sleeps past 1 she won't fall asleep till 8-830.


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## OmarsMum

If Omar doesn't nap by 1 pm he doesn't get a nap, I can tolerate with the ongoing whining during the day, but I can't cope well with playing & talking nonstop at bedtime if he naps a bit later, he needs at least 7 hours to fall asleep at night after waking up from his nap. 

Unfortunately it messes up with our day plans, as we can't go out if he doesn't nap at a reasonable time. he will end up taking a nap in the car. 

Today he napped from 1-3 pm (I was also napping so I didn't wake him after an hour), he didn't go to bed until 9.30 pm & he fell asleep at 10.15 pm


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## AlwaysPraying

Wow, interesting replies on the nap issue. It seems no matter what time he gets up, he won't go for a nap before 1pm, and even then doesn't fall asleep until 1:30, so I just keep him up until 1:30 and he falls asleep in 10 mins (even in his big bed, while I sit with him). That's why he ends up sleeping so late. I fuss around for half an hour then end up napping myself from 2-3pm. That's how we get a wake up time of 3-3:30. 

I'm not sure what would be worse, for him to be around a crabby mom ALL day because I didn't get a rest, or him at least being happy during the day with a fresh nap, at the sacrifice of his bedtime fiasco. 

Maybe I need to just bite the bullet and only let him sleep an hour from 1-2 and see if that does anything. I'll deal with my own issues somehow (god I feel so selfish).


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## minties

I really do feel for you. Our kids are simlar-ish ages and we are close in weeks with our pregnancies.

If Thomas gets up after 7am, I keep him awake all day, and stick him in bed at 6pm. He's so tired he conks out straight away. He tends to wake at 8pm for a cry though, being over-tired, but in that time I've had a snooze on my bed, I can deal with it. I comfort him then usually grab a bite to eat and go to bed myself.

Last night OH slept in Thomas's room, and Thomas slept in bed with me. I got so little sleep (he kept kicking me in the face!) that I HAD to nap today. I shut us both in his room, gave him food, drink and toys and curled up on his bed while he ate and played. I had to. It was the safest thing to do, I was nodding off while he had run of the house and that could have been a disaster. He kept leaping on me, whining and hitting me with toys, but I did get some sleep and now feel I can cope.

The 1.5-2.5 year old stage is HARD!


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## catfromaus

Don't know if this would work- but my friend has a reward chart for her 3 year old. She gets a sticker each time she stays in bed all night, and a treat after a certain amount of stickers.
My little girl has been told she isn't allowed out of her room until the sun comes up, but she is happy to play until then.
Thinking of you, and I don't think you are a shit mum! I get stressed if mine wont go straight to sleep as well- sleep is just so precious, especially when you are pregnant!


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## tommyg

Your not a shit mum they dont come with an instruction book.

I'd cut the nap to 1 hr and see if it helps. I'd also not lie besides him as he look for you rather than self settling bac to sleep.

That said mine naps for an hour but wakes during the night and lands in our bed.


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## PepsiChic

can you not just put him down for a later bedtime?


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## JASMAK

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Go with the flow. I agree with Omars mom...you will probably be less stress laying with him. Yes, you will have another one soon. Trust me, I know it can be daunting. I had TWO in my bed. LOL...seems crazy now! Maybe you need more rest in the day too? Are you on mat leave yet? Can someone take your son (preschool) for a bit? K goes an hour a day and LOVES it. Go with the flow hon...best advice I was EVER given.


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## pinklightbulb

I'd either move the nap back at your own expense, or give him a later bedtime so you can have your nap. It sounds as though you are expecting a little much of him for sleep honey :hugs: If you think he needs the sleep, by this stage I would employ at the least CC. I know this is not a popular opinion, but needs must sometimes.


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## moomoo

Agree with the above, it gets to a point whether it's one of the other? Nap and late bedtime or bed slightly earlier and not so much fuss. You gotta workout which is most important to you as both I think is asking too much of him.

I know they are all different but by 2 our little man was no longer napping x


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## pinklightbulb

Mine still naps and has an early bedtime, but not everyone is so lucky :(


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## AlwaysPraying

Because he doesn't fall asleep until 9 or 9:30 I'm really hesitant to put him to bed any later. I went to bed at 10 last night after he did. That's no life!! 

It's raining here tonight and were in a new house. The rain is collecting on a part of the house then dropping on the roof below making a really loud tapping sound every few minutes right out my closed window. My son woke up at 1:45 crying. I think the tapping woke him up. It woke me up so I'm sure it did him too. I ventured outside to see if I could fix it but its either from our neighbors roof or our second story roof, so no stopping it. Husband is in with the kid now and has been for half an hour. I think they both may be sleeping. 

So when your kids do wake in the night do you lay with them until they sleep again? Or just put them in bed and let them figure it out? 

To the one poster, I did cc a couple months back and we had great success with it I won't lie. He took almost two weeks to settle really well but he did great but that's when he was in the old house and in his crib. Now with his freedom there's no way he will stand for me to leave and come like that. And doing reading I understand that cc is only really intended for kids between 1-2 years old. Around 2 they figure out what your doing and it doesn't work the same. 

Hope TO GOD this kid sleeps again tonight and doesn't wake at hells hour again like yesterday but who knows. At least his dad is home now from his trip and can help.


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## AlwaysPraying

Awake for the day at 5:30. I really don't know what to think. 

How do I not hate myself for putting him i the bed when the only problem with the crib was he took an hour to get to sleep?


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## moomoo

AlwaysPraying said:


> Awake for the day at 5:30. I really don't know what to think.
> 
> How do I not hate myself for putting him i the bed when the only problem with the crib was he took an hour to get to sleep?

Don't go back now, stick with it you will get through it!

Could you go and lie in with him in th morning? This sometimes would work with DS?


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## Jem88

Does he often wake early at 5.30am? Maybe the late 9.00pm bedtime/long day made him overtired so he woke early for the day?

I know when Sophie stops overnight at my mums house she always seems to fall asleep an hour or so after she normally would at home but then has a short night and is then tired the next day and wakes a few times the next night because she's overtired.

I now wake Sophie after an 1 hour 20-30min nap and is bathed and in bed for 5hrs after waking and is asleep within 30mins. If she sleeps any longer she can take up to an hour to fall asleep which i agree is really tiring/boring when your sat there for an hour trying not to play with them which also makes her day longer.x


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## mum2b2009

Dont be hard on yourself..you know what having a toddler and being heavily pregnant is bloody hard work esp if your not getting much sleep. We have just gone through the big bed nightmare too. The only way my son will go to bed with out fuss is keeping him awake all day and taking him for a walk. I used to have a box of toys in his room but have removed them cause he was waking up and playing with them so now his room is boring lol he tends to go back to sleep if he wakes. If not i let him cry it out. He wakes around 6am..6.30. Some kids do wake early tho. Sorry not much help but your not alone x


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## AlwaysPraying

Ya I can't go back now. That would just be silly. Seems like an easy fix but I'm sure it'll only cause issues anyways. 

I went to bed at 10 last night, slept like crap, his dad was up with him at 1:30am and I was up at 5:30 with him for the day and I actually feel pretty good. The extra hours sleep at the start of the night likely helped and having his dad home too. 

Today's mission is an hour nap no matter what. We will see what that does to bedtime.


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## JASMAK

Honestly, it's probably the pregnancy, and anemia that is making you feel so rough. Are you taking your iron supplements? I would try not to focus so much on how you can 'fix' your baby boy's sleep, and take care of yourself. It sounds like you are having a much harder time here, that what most do with the same situation (dont mean that offensively, just that you are struggling). Yes, I do lay with my kids, or go see them etc when they wake...or hubby does. My littlest gets up betwen 5am and 7am every morning. It sucks as sometimes I dont get to bed until midnight. But, I have been there with uncomfortable pregnancies AND anemia, and it is really difficult, but TEMPORARY. If anything, having your baby will be easier, or, at least it was for me. So, hang in there. Also, where is hubby in all of this? He needs to take over and give you a break.


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## PepsiChic

I know you said you dont want to put him down later, but i think its going to be a case of either let him nap the full time with later bed time, or less nap and stick to bedtime.

When Barry wakes unless hes crying I dont go in, I found that putting him back in bed over and over again just became a game to him or was winding him up more, we decided to shut his bedroom door when we first put him down an then we open it a crack once hes asleep. with the door open hed run to the door then run back to his bed making it yet another game. 

I dont lie with him, he will self settle when left to his own device.

When Barry wakes up in the morning if its before 9am I put him back in his bed and shut his bedroom door again. Sometimes he'll kick up a fuss, but he will go back to sleep. If hes up too early in the day then he is too tired during the day and all hell breaks loose at nap time. Barry has a late bedtime 11pm and need at least 10 hours of sleep a night, so 9am is the earleist i let him be up and awake. A couple of times hes woken at 5 or at 7am and he'll go back to sleep once i put him in bed and shut the door.

He figured out that when the door is shut its sleep time!


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## AlwaysPraying

Definitely going to stick with the shorter nap time. I'm actually really ok with getting up at 7 and having a full day with him. It's the anticipation of fighting bedtime, crabbiness etc. so if less of a nap could help then I'm doing it! Today is day 1. He woke at 5;30 and is having an hour nap from 1-2 that's it. Bedtime at 8 or 8:30 depending how he is. 

Yes j, you've hit the nail on the head. The pregnancy hormones, and anemia are playing into this big time. I'm on an iron supplement and hopefully it's kicking in soon. I think that's why I'm so down on myself because it seems like everyone else can raise two kids, deal with nighttime issues without going bonkers. 

As far as dad goes, he does well. He works out of town most weekends so we are on our own then (as was this weekend). And he works a lot of late evenings so sleeps later in the morning. It's a schedule I have battled with for years. It's our business and we are doing fairly well so that's good. He's home a lot, but during the day leaving nighttimes to me. And honestly sometimes he's around too much. I for sure take my frustration on on him instead of our son. It's not fair but I'd rather get mad at an adult than a little boy. :( I signed up for two well being classes in my area one was for stress management the other was to simplify life with a toddler and they both were cancelled due to lack of participants. So I'm trying to figure this out. 

And finally pending baby is starting to stress me. It was so hard on our relationship last time. We had a really tough time adjusting and then got through and it seemed we got pregnant again quicker than expected. And before our son I was pregnant and lost a baby so I feel like I've been pregnant for 4 years, which I have off and on with one son and one on the way. So I'm tired. 

I certainly don't have it worse but I do know I have high expectations and high stress if I fail at raising my family. It's nice to realize these things and start dealing with them.


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## Miss_Bump

Sorry you are going thru this hun

I don't have any suggestions but we are going thru the same.

Evie has never been a good sleeper.

I work nights and it takes DH over an hour to get her to sleep. Sometimes he phones me at 9:30pm (Evie's bedtime is 7pm) and Evie comes on the phone saying she isn't sleeping but is waiting for mummy lol

We just go with the flow now as are all out of ideas.

If she wants to sleep in her bed, that's fine. If she wants to sleep with us then that's fine too

I've been shattered for 2.5 years :haha:


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## hattiehippo

I really wouldn't worry about what you do to get him to sleep at the mo. Worry about how you might be able to 'fix' his sleep once the baby is here and the initial upheaval is done.

And sometimes things get better by themselves just because your LO is getting older. Tom is a great sleeper now - he does 8pmish to 6.30amish straight through and goes to sleep on his own BUT this has only been the case for 3 months. Before 2 1/2 he had been a terrible sleeper from birth. Up for hours every night and then awake at 5am, had to hold his hand for hours or lie in bed with him to get him asleep etc. We tried everything but CC or CIO as they're not for me. In the end what made the difference was he got older and learnt how to settle by himself and to stay asleep in the night. He just wasn't ready earlier.

I know how hard it is to have years of disrupted sleep and I wasn't pregnant at the same time so I really feel for you. Be gentle on yourself - you haven't made this problem, it's just how your son is and he will pick up on your stress and play up more.


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## minichicky

oh hun it sounds like your having a hard time but I can relate!
Isaac gos through lots of funny stages with his sleep as well. 
No one else had suggested this but maybe try putting him to bed earlier!??
I know if Isaac ges to bed later than his normal bedtime he sleeps a lot worse and wakes earlier. 
I also get the need for an afternoon nap yourself! Isaac is at the stage where if he wakes after no nap, before 6 hopefully nap and i am also guilty of letting him nap for over an hour whenhe does so I can use the rest as well.
How I deal with it is go to bed early! I mean rarely later than 9.30 (hes in bed by 7) then I can deal with the early morning so much better which is also sometimes 4.30 - 5 ish! 

If he doesnt have a nap and i really need one, I rightly or wrongly, giv him his dummy, put the tv on and we snuggle up on the sofa together so I can doze and he stays still


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## AlwaysPraying

We've tried earlier before. It's not a matter of being over tired. No matter what time we put him down he doesn't actually fall asleep until 9-9:15. Not that I don't appreciate the idea! I welcome them all! (But feel like I tried them all) 

Last night he slept through. Went to bed at 8:15 fell asleep with me by his side at 9 woke up for the day at 6:15. So that's progress! Lord only knows what the future is to hold though. I'm happy to hear time does help. I know all kids struggle with something and clearly mine is sleep. Or rather its me that struggles with his sleep.


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## hattiehippo

That sounds like a big step forward and hard as it is some kids just don't need as much sleep as others.

Tom needs 11 hours total, my friend's boy the same age has 12 hrs at night and a 2 hr nap.

Fingers crossed he stays asleep tonight for you too.


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## BethK

Have you looked at his surroundings?

Sounds silly but little things make a difference, I.e positioning of the bed, they feel more secure with the bed against a wall one side.

Do you have a night light?

Have you tried a groclock?

Have you tried supplementing yourself? Go to a shop and buy a new bedtime bear for him to cuddle. Get a CD player, put lullabies on it quietly with you there then once he's used to that you can get closer to the door, he'll still be cuddling his bear and will still have the music.

Have you tried a weighted blanket?

Are there any shadows or shapes on the walls making him uneasy?


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## BethK

Btw did you say you tried CC?

We did when LO was in her cot and it worked.

Now she's in her bed we start bath/shower time at 6.15, milk and stories is at 7 - 7.20 and then we turn her music on and leave.

If she gets up we just take her straight back, say its bedtime, the groclock helps with this as she sees the stars not the sun, then leave, when she gets up again we calmly lie her back in bed say goodnight and leave, every time after that we don't speak.

Took a few goes but she now stays in bed and settles herself, still have the odd early morning though but we do the back to bed thing if its before 6am.

We also have stickers and a reward chart for going to bed when the sun sleeps on her clock and waking up when the sun wakes up.

My SIL had to do back to bed with her LO 50 times in 30 minutes! She's got it now though :)

One thing that also helps is DH reminds LO what she's done today and what she's doing tomorrow, he does that after story time, it reminds her she's been busy an is tired, e.g he'll say "you've done lots today, went to nursery, played with all your friends, did some painting, Grandma picked you up and you went to the garden centre" etc, then he'll say "and now you go to sleep, then when you wake up you'll go to nursery, see all your friends (lists their names), grandma will pick you up and you'll go and play"

He'll get her looking forward to sleep then waking up.


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## moomoo

^ this would work with my easy going DD, but definitely not with my sleep fighting DS! :shrug:


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## BethK

moomoo said:


> ^ this would work with my easy going DD, but definitely not with my sleep fighting DS! :shrug:

Aww well thought it was worth a try, OP has nothing to lose and thought her D'S might pick up on just a bit of the routine he likes :shrug:


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## TatorMom

You're NOT a horrible mom by any means. I 100% understand NEEDING that nap time during the day or else you feel like you'll implode. Thankfully our boys are older and play better on their own rather than needing to be entertained. I HATED the toddler stage because I found it SO boring, tedious and exhausting. Your son is within months of things getting easier and being able to play on his own with his toys a bit better. Developmentally he probably hasn't hit the imaginary play stage yet. Every kid is different. That stage is a dream though because they seem to be able to play for longer and leave you alone. Our boys will be 3 and 4 here in a few months. I will say that bed time has never really been an issue for us, but I honestly feel like that's been because our boys have always shared a room and they've never known not. There was a 2 week span where we sent DS1 down to Florida with my parents and DS2 ended up in bed with us every night crying himself to sleep for his brother. Apparently mommy and daddy are chopped liver.:haha: It's just what DS2 is used to, but DS1 apparently didn't have any trouble sleeping during that time. He's also a year older though. I will say that I am a VERY active person, even during this pregnancy thankfully, and I wear my kids out. By 5pm they're usually dragging butt because we've been at the park most of the day, or riding bikes, playing sports, sprints on the basketball court, hill sprints at the park, etc. Now the latter I don't force them to do, but they LOVE doing it and it gives me a great work out and keeps me in shape. I'm actually a 1,000x more excited to have babies now that I have older kids who are able to do things and are just fun. I don't feel like I'm alone when I'm with my kids anymore. That time will soon come for you with your son. We have a basketball hoop in our garage, along with a water table we filled with colored rice, and space for them to ride their bikes in when the weather is to crappy outside. If they still seem full of energy by about 6pm I have them run sprints from one side of the house to the other for awhile. They LOVE it and think it's the funniest thing. I did the sprinting in the house after dinner with a 2.5yr old I nannied for during college, before I had kids. Her parents said she went to bed like a dream, so they kept it up after I left them. Now she's almost 7, and they said she goes to bed quite well now.:) 

I don't really have our boys nap anymore, but we do have quiet time where I have them watch a kids movie or TV show. I just need the down time because I have homework and studying I have to get done. Plus, I just need some down time. Sorry, I don't know that this helped at all, but hang in there. Just try and wear him out. Our boys go to bed very easily between 7-8pm. They do wake up at about 6-630am, but I've gotten used to it and accepted it. I can't believe they'll be 3 and 4 here soon, so I know it doesn't last long. 

One of my favorite quotes, "Kids are but for only a moment in time." That's part of the reason I put so much emphasis on taking care of my marriage. I know it may seem like it lasts forever sometimes. Trust me I've felt it, but I feel like the older I get and the older they get it goes faster and faster.


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## Ceejay123

Oh honey, I have no advice but well done. You sound like you're coping very well with this... You're doing everything you can <3. I hope he starts to sleep properly soon. x


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## AlwaysPraying

I'm trying to track down a gro clock actually. They are $50 Canadian. And my American friends can seem to find one there. How much are they in the uk? 

Im going to stick with laying with him for the time being. At least he's not upset and does fall asleep. When we tried staying with him when he was in his crib he would just play and talk to us for ages! Now at least he is quiet and calm and eventually nods off. And when we lay with him we get to me comfy too!

Today he was up at 6:30 and didn't get a nap until 1:45 and I woke him up at 2:45 but he refused to get up!! He was like a teenager! Yesterday too he was zonked asleep when I tried to wake him after an hour and it took 15 mins of me bugging to get him up. So maybe he needs more than an hour? But he is happy once he is awake.


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## AlwaysPraying

I wanted to add you guys have all been an amazing source of support.


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## BethK

My LO is like that, takes a good 25 mins to wake her from a nap, then she's grumpy for 30 mins. She would have longer than an hour but then she wouldn't sleep at bedtime so I have to decide if I want my evening or time in the day.

I opt for evening so it's tough, she has to wake.


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## eddjanuary10

:hugs: Hopefully the length of time it takes for him to fall asleep will get shorter, and maybe the gro clock will help. 

Ihsan was not a good sleeper at all until recently things have got better, even as a baby he would sleep for the shortest times & take ages to nod off. His naps were brief and unpredictable lengths, things improved between 18months- 2years with naps but night sleep it took a bit longer. He gets up around 8.30am and I can expect him to be fast asleep by 8.30pm in about 10minutes if he has had no afternoon nap (he's phasing it out now) but if he has had his nap then I keep him up until 9pm then read to him until he falls asleep. (about 20-30minutes). I lie beside him :thumbup:


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## nicki01

this is the one thing i have no patience with! I hate it when charlie wont sleep! I can get up in the night no problem but laying with her whilst she falls asleep is a big no for me! Not that im against it, i personally cannot do it! It drives me insane! 

Charlie has been quite good at going down and self settling since an early age, but when we changed to the toddler bed it all went to pot and i dreaded bed times. I would put her to bed the same as i did her cot and she would scream and scream! She would drag all the clothes out the drawers, throw things etc! 

I had to ditch the morning nap at 18months and move it too 11.30-1ish and she isnt allowed to sleep any later that 3pm. Normally she is up at 2pm. 

I can cope with her whining etc during the day but i need my evenings. Since moving the nap and limiting the time she sleeps in the day she goes to bed between 7-8.
It took a while of up and down and in and out the bedroom and some nights still does, but 80% of time i give her milk and dummy put her in her bed and shut the door and she goes off. She has even got up and played for 20 mins then put herself back in bed and gone to sleep! I also hate getting up before 6.30am, she is normally awake at this time but i hear her playing and then she starts to call at 7am

I really feel for you and hope things start to improve.


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## Dragonfly

Its probably been said already but bed share? going against it with cribs and own beds when not ready can be a real pain. I didnt go that way myself so dont have any problems there. Maybe go with your child, if they like you with them when they sleep stay there or have them near you . It may take a while for them to built up trust and confidence that you are near then they sleep alone no problem. I bed share but both mine go to bed before me with no fuss. And being pregnant not it will get harder as the change will effect your toddler. So best keep him close to.


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## Annabel

I stated a routine where we would cuddle for the length of time it took for his projector to finish playing. When that stopped I was firm, told him to cuddle with his monkey, close your eyes, go to sleep and mummy would see him in the morning. I would then leave, but putting the projector on the same song again, so not leaving him completely in the dark. I would then say night night and close the door. He would scream for half an hour, it was horrible. However I just repeated the same every single night, saying the same thing and giving a cuddle until the projector turned off. After around 10 days he stopped screaming. He would whinge, and still does but he us usually sleeping within 10 minutes of leaving the room- without screaming Iyar asking for more cuddles. 

I think having the projector and him learning g that once that goes off he goes to sleep helped with a routine, as I think toddlers have no concept if time. 

I hope this may help u a little? Xx


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## AlwaysPraying

He won't bed share. He's never been one to share even from when he was tiny. Being in our bed just winds him up even more. 

I like the idea of being firm and leaving but its the ten days of screaming that destroys me. I'm not sure I have the heart for it! Last night he fought sleep andpissed around for a long time, dad lost his temper and left the room so I went in. It took him another 15 mins to settle then he was out. He slept until 7am!!!!!! I'm so fine with him and I laying together if he's sleeping through!!


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## Dragonfly

Why leave your babies to scream for you? this goes against your instincts. Or do you want them to give up wanting you? I am sorry if that sounds rude its kinda disturbing reading some of this. They are babies whats with all this being firm and leaving them screaming? Things would be easier if you met needs especially in the future when they have needs met they not longer need you.


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## Annabel

Dragonfly said:


> Why leave your babies to scream for you? this goes against your instincts. Or do you want them to give up wanting you? I am sorry if that sounds rude its kinda disturbing reading some of this. They are babies whats with all this being firm and leaving them screaming? Things would be easier if you met needs especially in the future when they have needs met they not longer need you.

Maybe it's not your style. Each to their own. However I haven't racked up almost 15 thousand posts on an Internet forum. Where do you the time if your showing your kids the attention the deserve? !


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## Dragonfly

Annabel said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> Why leave your babies to scream for you? this goes against your instincts. Or do you want them to give up wanting you? I am sorry if that sounds rude its kinda disturbing reading some of this. They are babies whats with all this being firm and leaving them screaming? Things would be easier if you met needs especially in the future when they have needs met they not longer need you.
> 
> Maybe it's not your style. Each to their own. However I haven't racked up almost 15 thousand posts on an Internet forum. Where do you the time if your showing your kids the attention the deserve? !Click to expand...

breastfeeding and posting, multi tasking. Both asleep at this moment if you must know. :thumbup:
is this a style then?


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## Ozzieshunni

Is he sensing your stress? I know Alex won't sleep for beans if I'm upset or stressed.


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## Brookey

Dragonfly said:


> Why leave your babies to scream for you? this goes against your instincts. Or do you want them to give up wanting you? I am sorry if that sounds rude its kinda disturbing reading some of this. They are babies whats with all this being firm and leaving them screaming? Things would be easier if you met needs especially in the future when they have needs met they not longer need you.

I think she has already decided to go down this route, has obviously weighed up the options and decided this is the best thing for her family. Whats the point in making her feel bad?

I know this might not be your intention but I see you make these kind of comments on alot of threads where mothers talk about letting their babies/toddlers cry before sleep and honestly its a bit like flogging a dead horse. Not everyone parents the same and if someone decides this is best for them then who is anyone else to question it?

Of course her child will still want her...suggesting otherwise is a little bit mean to be honest.

Im not saying this to start an argument or for a fight with you by the way, just putting my opinion out there :flower:


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## Wobbles

Annabel said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> Why leave your babies to scream for you? this goes against your instincts. Or do you want them to give up wanting you? I am sorry if that sounds rude its kinda disturbing reading some of this. They are babies whats with all this being firm and leaving them screaming? Things would be easier if you met needs especially in the future when they have needs met they not longer need you.
> 
> Maybe it's not your style. Each to their own. However I haven't racked up almost 15 thousand posts on an Internet forum. Where do you the time if your showing your kids the attention the deserve? !Click to expand...

I understand these topics are divided in opinions and parenting choices but really Annabel where was the need for such a rude and personal response? Dragonfly was not rude about her thoughts on the topic but you decided to attack her and assume a post count means she is not giving her children the attention they deserve.

I am more than aware that a lot of Dragonflys forum activity has been extremely valuable to other parents and expecting parents. 

Brookey, If you put a parenting question or discussion on BabyandBump guess what you are going to get mixed answers from parents... as long as the replies are done without being rude then what is the problem? A different opinion on the subject doesn't automatically make it rude either. You make the discussion awkward by asking "who is anyone else to question it", well that is what the forum is about but again it wasn't really questioning the matter but asking whist adding other opinions and advice.


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## akcher

I feel your pain as my twins are horrible sleepers. They take 1 hr to fall asleep every night. I usually stay in the room with them because if I don't it will turn into playtime. I work full time so I have to work their daycare on their nap schedules. They tried to shorten they nap time but most times, they were unwilling to wake up. I tried cutting out their nap time on weekends but their just woke up super early. We took a vacation last week and the time difference made it a perfect sleeping schedule. They slept 12AM-9AM with a 2 hour nap from 3PM-5PM local time every day. But I chalk that up to them being tired from the all the beach and pool activities during the day. They also cannot wake up so late since I have to be at work. I hope this is a phase and they will start to naturally settle in their sleep schedule. Hang in there!


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## JASMAK

Annabel said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> Why leave your babies to scream for you? this goes against your instincts. Or do you want them to give up wanting you? I am sorry if that sounds rude its kinda disturbing reading some of this. They are babies whats with all this being firm and leaving them screaming? Things would be easier if you met needs especially in the future when they have needs met they not longer need you.
> 
> Maybe it's not your style. Each to their own. However I haven't racked up almost 15 thousand posts on an Internet forum. Where do you the time if your showing your kids the attention the deserve? !Click to expand...

Why be on a forum if you are going to put others down for being on a forum. This was a very low blow. Dragonfly is a very helpful and caring person. No offense to you, but your post made me feel queezy too. But your response was rude not just to Dragon but to all moms who use this for support and friendship.


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## AlwaysPraying

Getting back on topic. Today we had our first genuine - no nap day. We tried to put him down as normal, did everything we usually do and be played and fooled around. I thought he was tired but didn't ever give into his nap. So he got up and we played for the rest of the day. He was very happy and not tired. So I guess maybe him growing out of his naps may be playing into all this? 

Bedtime tonight and last night were a struggle. He basically wrestles us, talks and tries to mess around until he finally gives in and falls asleep. Tonight I lost my temper and left the room after half an hour of him being a goof. His dad came in and 15 mins later the kid was zonked. Same happened last night but switch the parents. 

Alas he fell asleep both nights at 9pm and woke today at 7am so I consider that all a win. 

I think lots of my issue is my confidence on how to put him to bed. I forget he's his own little person and he won't always lay down read a book and go to sleep. Maybe he's hyper or wired or silly or just not tired or over tired. It's hard to be consistent when the kids are so unpredictable.


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## PepsiChic

AlwaysPraying said:


> Getting back on topic. Today we had our first genuine - no nap day. We tried to put him down as normal, did everything we usually do and be played and fooled around. I thought he was tired but didn't ever give into his nap. So he got up and we played for the rest of the day. He was very happy and not tired. So I guess maybe him growing out of his naps may be playing into all this?
> 
> Bedtime tonight and last night were a struggle. He basically wrestles us, talks and tries to mess around until he finally gives in and falls asleep. Tonight I lost my temper and left the room after half an hour of him being a goof. His dad came in and 15 mins later the kid was zonked. Same happened last night but switch the parents.
> 
> Alas he fell asleep both nights at 9pm and woke today at 7am so I consider that all a win.
> 
> I think lots of my issue is my confidence on how to put him to bed. I forget he's his own little person and he won't always lay down read a book and go to sleep. Maybe he's hyper or wired or silly or just not tired or over tired. It's hard to be consistent when the kids are so unpredictable.

Its difficult, we were shutting the door to encourage Barry to go to sleep because otherwise hed just stand at the door opening and shutting it banging it off the wall :dohh:

Im lucky in the sense he doesnt cry or have a meltdown or anything at nap/bedtime, but otherwise its damn hard work! Unlike your LO, Barry needs to nap, if he sleeps for anything less then 2 hours during the day then your in for hell till bedtime. 

After we had to smash the door handle off his door (dont ask yesterday was a nightmare!) we now cant shut his door, so we've ben using the "back to bed" techinque like supernanny does. 

I change his diaper, put him in his pjs into bed, he drinsk his milk while i read his book, I leave him his milk if he hasnt finished when I finisht he book, I say na night, give a kiss, tell him i love him and leave. I know hes out of bed before ive reached the door. So i turn around and put him back "its bedtime baby" and then "its bed time" and finally I dont say anything.

For a while he'll make it a game, literally the moment his body touched the mattress he rolls himself straight onto the floor. 

for todays nap it took an hour of this, I dont even know how many times I put him back, 50+ easily!

for bedtime, it took 30 minutes and about 25 times putting him back.

I know you said lying withh im helps him get to sleep, and sometimes, it seems that has worked, but other times it seems that actually may be encouraging him to fuss and play and talk because he has someone there he knows is watching him do those things even if you dont interact back, he knows your paying attention so hes going to keep doing it.

As exhausting as it is, have you considered the back to bed technique?

whatever the solution is for your LO, and my LO, I hope it gets easier soon :hugs: Im not as far along as you with the pregnancy, but its damn hard work


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## OmarsMum

AlwaysPraying said:


> Getting back on topic. Today we had our first genuine - no nap day. We tried to put him down as normal, did everything we usually do and be played and fooled around. I thought he was tired but didn't ever give into his nap. So he got up and we played for the rest of the day. He was very happy and not tired. So I guess maybe him growing out of his naps may be playing into all this?
> 
> Bedtime tonight and last night were a struggle. He basically wrestles us, talks and tries to mess around until he finally gives in and falls asleep. Tonight I lost my temper and left the room after half an hour of him being a goof. His dad came in and 15 mins later the kid was zonked. Same happened last night but switch the parents.
> 
> Alas he fell asleep both nights at 9pm and woke today at 7am so I consider that all a win.
> 
> I think lots of my issue is my confidence on how to put him to bed. I forget he's his own little person and he won't always lay down read a book and go to sleep. Maybe he's hyper or wired or silly or just not tired or over tired. It's hard to be consistent when the kids are so unpredictable.

It will get better :hugs: 

9-7 seems great. Omar is sleeping from 9:30-10 pm to 8-8.30 pm. It took us almost 2 yrs to finally reach a reasonable bedtime. It takes time with some toddlers, not all toddlers go with the book & some need some flexibility. I really hope it gets sorted out before you have your baby Hun :hugs:


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## Ozzieshunni

Perhaps keep alternating parents? Like one night you do it and then next night have DH do it. That way, you're less stressed :)


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## hb1

how old is he? if he is over 2.5 ish then maybe try the kissing game?


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## AlwaysPraying

He's 2 years and 1 month. 

Don't get me wrong, we are way better already in just one week. I'm thrilled to pieces that we've completed the move to the big bed. It's done and that's huge. As far as happiness, I think it's a matter of figuring out what will work for him and us going forward. I didn't realize he didn't need a nap yesterday so I tried to push it. Then again he did wake at 3am last night and then for the day at 5:30 but that's ok I guess. Because we've had a couple full nights sleeps I KNOW he can do it,now it's just a matter of figuring out the best way to consistently get there. 

I think for the last year I've wanted so bad for him to be a kid we could just plop in bed and he would go to sleep. Well he's obviously not. He's never needed as much sleep as other kids. Even from the start he was awake more than his buddies. And seeing he actually falls asleep at 9pm almost every night for this whole past year then maybe that's just his proper bedtime. And I do recognize my part in this. He picks up off me and his dad. It's hard to be calm when the people around you aren't. 

And something I've never mentioned is I'm exactly the same way. No matter what time I go to bed it takes me an hour to fall asleep every time. When I'm sleeping I'm good but getting there is tough. Maybe he just takes after me and will always need some work in getting to sleep either from us or from himself. I can try to help him change so it's easier but maybe this is part of who he is.


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## Quartz

AlwaysPraying said:


> I think for the last year I've wanted so bad for him to be a kid we could just plop in bed and he would go to sleep. Well he's obviously not. He's never needed as much sleep as other kids. Even from the start he was awake more than his buddies. And seeing he actually falls asleep at 9pm almost every night for this whole past year then maybe that's just his proper bedtime. And I do recognize my part in this. He picks up off me and his dad. It's hard to be calm when the people around you aren't.

I can really sympathise with this you just assume that all toddlers will fall asleep easily at 7:30 and the fact that they dont is something you are doing rather than them. Once I realised that DD needed the lower end of the normal range of sleep it became much more relaxing. Rather than starting at 7 we now start at 8 with wash and clean teeth before 30-40 mins of tv and cuddles before going to bed. She now plays happily 7-8 and because we know that is the routine it is much less stressful.

Also I have learnt to pick up on her sleep cues - about once every ten days we can either have an earlier bedtine or later - with later I just push things back 30 mins. 

She then wakes at 7:30 so 101/2 hrs with no naps. On this she can go to school and do an extra cuuricular actvity so its the sleep you need.


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## moomoo

Hope today goes better, he sounds like he is dropping the nap x


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## AlwaysPraying

I can't do it anymore. He's taking everything from me. All he wants is to lie with me and roll around and that seems fine but it never ends. I know it's just a stupid hour but I can't do it night after night after night. 

I don't want to be like this. I don't want to be a short tempered parent. I don't want to argue with my husband about how to parent. I don't want to go on but there is nothing else to do. 

It's like I try and try and try and I'm ok until I wear too thin then I break. Then I try and try and try again until I break. It's. It just bedtime it's everything. Bedtime is the icing on the cake I think. For two years me and my husband have never been on the same parenting page and the adds to it. Sure I can put my foot down and make decisions but then I'm fighting both of them. I get no support. Or he just flops over and tells me to do whatever I want and he will go along with it. 

From waking up to going to bed is just hard. It seems like everyone else has it so together. They flow with their families and once in a while they stumble. But in my house it's constant chaos. I'm always telling my husband to do things because he never thinks about cleaning or doing anything obvious like that so I nag and I nag and then we fight. I chase the kid I work hard to give him a good upbringing then my husband gives him cookies for breakfast and lets him run wild totally undoing everything I worked at. Then I've got a spoiled confused kid to deal with. 

And there's one more on her way in 7 weeks. I can't begin to imagine what my life will be like then.


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## JASMAK

Awe, hon..no, everyone else does NOT have ot all together. If you were on my FB you would have read my status this morning of me crying as I have had no sleep...none. K has been not sleeping and last night was the worst. I had to get up, tired and crying I was SO tired, and go to work and be in meetings all day...big meetings with lawyers. I am a single mom M-F and at night I have 3 cranky kids who fight, cry, whine and need everything for me, plus I am potty training. Its an effing gong show in my house!

I am not saying this to 'beat' you (you win as you are preggers and that truly is the hardest) but dont judge books by covers. We all have our struggle. I fought with my hubby this morning and he leaves the house in such an effing state that I yell at him and threaten to hire a maid (actually did once). 

Hang in there...take 1 day at a time, ok. Try to get rest during the day. Hugs


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## pinklightbulb

:hugs:

Honestly, I would just bite the bullet and do full-blown CIO at this stage if you've worked out it's not a not-tired issue, just a refusal to sleep one. There's only so much one can take and it sounds like you are at your breaking point. He won't remember it when he's older, and you have a new baby on the way and will need all the rest you can get.


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## catfromaus

Try not to judge yourself too much- your fear of how life will be in 7 weeks is probably making everything seem so much worse.
I actually find it easier having two, especially now they can play together. You are a lot less stressed with your second baby as well- it might not be as hard as you think.
This is all just for a time- your little boy won't be 2 forever, just hang in there and do what you need to do to get yourself through. For me, that sometimes means letting the kids cry while I have some chocolate!
It will get better, being a toddler is a phase that doesn't last forever :)


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## Ozzieshunni

Remind yourself that you're probably stressed over the new baby, he's stressed because of the changes going on, and you're both feeding off each other. Do you have family that can come and watch your toddler while you sleep a bit? Don't be afraid to ask for help!


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## londonangel

Even if he went to sleep really 'well' you might find him being an early riser. My Eleanor is a dream to put to bed. Goes down perfectly well at 8pm. But she gets up between five and five-thirty most days. She's never slept for longer than that. I'd persevere on getting him to sleep without laying with him, even if he does cry a bit at first, as you're right, you won't really be able to do that soon. It could be he is only waking earlier because of the change of moving to the 'big bed' and he may well just settle in the next couple of weeks. I do feel for you though, even though I have to get up really early most days it doesn't make it fun. Although I have to be up at six every day to go to work anyway. I just go to bed at 10.30pm each night as otherwise I would be shattered, as would hubby!


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## AlwaysPraying

Ok let's talk this cry it out possibility 

Everytime I've tried it gets him so crazy he gets more and more wound up and he just persists. He knows how to keep going because he knows I'm eventually going to rescue him. 

So how do I actually try it properly? Put him in bed say good night then just leave? Do I hold the door shut? Do i put him back in bed when he gets out? Do I leave him to wander his room until he crashes? 

How long will it last? He took almost 2 hours last night and that's after he was so tired and was being snuggled by us. I couldn't imagine leaving him to cry and then just sleep. I'm worried ill hell at him because that's what I end up doing. Last night I slammed the door and cried myself. I ran downstairs crying and wrote my previous post. I have a temper and I hate it. I hate when I yell or slam doors. Because he cries. I feel like I'm an abusive mom! I always yell "goodnight I love you" or something silly so at least my words are nice. I feel so bad. So if i do try cry it out totally I don't know if I can control myself! Does that make sense? Tonight I'm on my own because his dad is working so I have to have a plan. I'm actually better without his dad here because I know there's no one to rescue either of us. By again its so terribly exhausting. 

And yes I know for sure the coming baby thoughts are adding to my stress. Her room isn't ready I don't have a diaper so much needs to be done. We are waiting for our renovations to be complete before doing her room so it's a matter of a couple days now.


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## Ozzieshunni

I think your OH NEEDS to help. No ifs ands or buts. HE HAS TO HELP YOU! :hugs:


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## JASMAK

AlwaysPraying said:


> Ok let's talk this cry it out possibility
> 
> Everytime I've tried it gets him so crazy he gets more and more wound up and he just persists. He knows how to keep going because he knows I'm eventually going to rescue him.
> 
> So how do I actually try it properly? Put him in bed say good night then just leave? Do I hold the door shut? Do i put him back in bed when he gets out? Do I leave him to wander his room until he crashes?
> 
> How long will it last? He took almost 2 hours last night and that's after he was so tired and was being snuggled by us. I couldn't imagine leaving him to cry and then just sleep. I'm worried ill hell at him because that's what I end up doing. Last night I slammed the door and cried myself. I ran downstairs crying and wrote my previous post. I have a temper and I hate it. I hate when I yell or slam doors. Because he cries. I feel like I'm an abusive mom! I always yell "goodnight I love you" or something silly so at least my words are nice. I feel so bad. So if i do try cry it out totally I don't know if I can control myself! Does that make sense? Tonight I'm on my own because his dad is working so I have to have a plan. I'm actually better without his dad here because I know there's no one to rescue either of us. By again its so terribly exhausting.
> 
> And yes I know for sure the coming baby thoughts are adding to my stress. Her room isn't ready I don't have a diaper so much needs to be done. We are waiting for our renovations to be complete before doing her room so it's a matter of a couple days now.


I think you can google it. I dont know how as I have never. Maybe try whatever CC is? I dont know...I think no matter what, its going to be work. I think laying with him is going to be the annoying option, CC and CIO are going to be the high stress options. I think you should research it and whatever you choose, go with it 100%. Because it is very unfair on him to get all these mixed messages about what you want from him.


----------



## AlwaysPraying

I've done all other options so far. Stuck with each one for at least two weeks before changing back. I know you don't like CIO and I don't blame you. I hate it myself. We did cc which is basically letting him cry for short bursts and that did work for a while until we moved. But still took ages for him to settle. 

I think what I am going to focus more on is being consistent like you mentioned and being more firm. He knows I have a soft spot for him and he knows how to work it. 

Last night was so hard it just made me sad. One thing though, my husband does help out a lot. We may not be on the same page all the time but he does help. That's the issue with him. That when me and the boy are in stress dad comes to help and ends up adding to the stress rather than helping. But I'm also to blame because I'm trying so hard to control everything. 

I found out that he's not working tonight so that's a huge relief. We will do our best again tonight. Baby slept from 10pm - 8 am!! Because he was so damn tired!!! I'm going to skip his nap again today and see if that helps wear him out. 

J - I appreciate your comments about not everyone having it together. That seriously meant so much to me. I forget sometimes. Parenting is lonely and everyone wants to appear "together" so its tough. I have to remember that before I was pregnant things were really getting good. Our son and me had a great relationship and the family dynamic was pretty smooth. Then we got pregnant, then we moved, then we renovated, then we changed to a big boy bed.....so there's a lot of circumstances happening. I tend to complain quite a lot in my life so when I'm actually due a break I feel like I'm super complaining. I don't know I'd that makes sense. 

I do know I'm hormonal and it takes over, like last night. My dr said I need to go on my old anti depressants because of my history and how I've been this time. I'm open with my life and welcome any help like that. I just want to feel successful and like Im a good parent. Some days I do and I have to remind myself that it's work for everyone.


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## mistyscott

AlwaysPraying said:


> I've done all other options so far. Stuck with each one for at least two weeks before changing back. I know you don't like CIO and I don't blame you. I hate it myself. We did cc which is basically letting him cry for short bursts and that did work for a while until we moved. But still took ages for him to settle.
> 
> I think what I am going to focus more on is being consistent like you mentioned and being more firm. He knows I have a soft spot for him and he knows how to work it.
> 
> Last night was so hard it just made me sad. One thing though, my husband does help out a lot. We may not be on the same page all the time but he does help. That's the issue with him. That when me and the boy are in stress dad comes to help and ends up adding to the stress rather than helping. But I'm also to blame because I'm trying so hard to control everything.
> 
> I found out that he's not working tonight so that's a huge relief. We will do our best again tonight. Baby slept from 10pm - 8 am!! Because he was so damn tired!!! I'm going to skip his nap again today and see if that helps wear him out.
> 
> J - I appreciate your comments about not everyone having it together. That seriously meant so much to me. I forget sometimes. Parenting is lonely and everyone wants to appear "together" so its tough. I have to remember that before I was pregnant things were really getting good. Our son and me had a great relationship and the family dynamic was pretty smooth. Then we got pregnant, then we moved, then we renovated, then we changed to a big boy bed.....so there's a lot of circumstances happening. I tend to complain quite a lot in my life so when I'm actually due a break I feel like I'm super complaining. I don't know I'd that makes sense.
> 
> I do know I'm hormonal and it takes over, like last night. My dr said I need to go on my old anti depressants because of my history and how I've been this time. I'm open with my life and welcome any help like that. I just want to feel successful and like Im a good parent. Some days I do and I have to remind myself that it's work for everyone.

Oh hon :hugs: my little one isn't at the toddler stage yet, but I wanted to post to offer some reassurance that you're not the only one who finds it hard. I too have a short temper that I'm not proud of and have shouted at my baby on too many occasions :( (usually during nappy changes at the moment) BUT what we both have is awareness of this - and concern about behaving this way. That is much more preferable to being oblivious or choosing not to accept there is an issue. This awareness is more than half the battle when it comes to controlling your anger - knowing your triggers and warning signs is really helpful too (for me, massive trigger is when he hurts me, unintentionally of course). 

I do sometimes feel its not acceptable to lose your temper as a mother because not many people do talk about it... It sounds like you're trying your best to make what changes you can. The place which cancelled the well being courses, did they not have any info/suggestions about alternatives? 

As for the new baby, don't forget they don't need much so things like getting a room ready can wait for now :baby: 
Being heavily pregnant and having a toddler is not easy and you're doing your best - which is good enough :thumbup:
Hope things improve x


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## pinklightbulb

How old is your toddler sweetheart?

For example, at Eamon's age, I would put him to bed, tell him it's time for sleep, tell him I love him, turn out the light and close the door.

Then I would leave him first for 15 mins. I would walk in, lay him back down without speaking or turning the light on, kiss him goodnight again, and leave again.

I would then leave him for 30 mins. If up again, I would repeat the above.

After this, I would simply leave him to scream and go in every 30 mins to check on him if that's what he was intent on doing.

If he screams himself sick, change the sheets and him without speaking, and then kiss him goodnight and leave again. Repeat ad nauseum if needed.

Within 3-5 nights you should have a noticeable difference.


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## Luzelle

I feel for you. I have been there, though without the added fact that you are pregnant and need rest.
For one and a half years, I had to lay with my son for every single nap, usually with one of his hands on a breast or on my belly button. And I have difficulty falling asleep, so by the time he was asleep I was still wide awake. Even at 2 or 3 am. 
I was shattered. Beyond exhausted. Totally lost my confidence in mothering.
It took two or three very near misses of having accidents on the road due to exhaustion, for me to realise that I am not doing my son, myself or my marriage any favours.
For me to do cry it out was like going against my mothering instincts. But what kind of a mother would I be anyway if I seriously hurt my son or myself due to being so tired? He woke up a lot during the night so I was only getting 40 minutes or less at a time.
So, we did cry it out. The first couple of nights were very, very hard. Then it suddenly got easier and easier. Now, he falls asleep without a fuss.
One thing that I have realised though is that Barry doesnt understand 'sometimes'. I cant sometimes lay with him when I do feel like it, not even one night out of twenty, just for cuddles. We do heaps of cuddles when he is awake. If his sleeping alone is broken, we start again, such as after he was ill. It is never as hard as the first time though.
He now has his bed time routine around 8 pm, gets put into bed, told that we love him, and we close the door behind us, switching off the light. He goes to sleep usually immediately, sometimes he plays or sings a bit, but that is fine.
Seriously, I started resenting him at one point... Now I am a much better mom. We all do the best we can in our unique circumstances. I need quality sleep. Without it, I am useless.

For your own specific setup, you would probably have to improvise a bit. Make the room safe. Put up a video monitor if you have to. Even a lbabygate on the outside of the door just for the first while. or one of those things you get so they cant open the door themselves. Teach him to sleep on his own. He can do it and so can you. Even if he ends up falling asleep on the floor for a few times. It wont hurt him. Just put him to bed or put a blanket over him.
We are always putting our children first. But seriously, sometimes we need to put ourselves first too, so we can be better parents. YOU have to decide what YOU can or cant put up with, and he has to learn to obey. I know my view wont be a popular one, but I am tired of how people just always expect mothers to give and give and give endlessly. Somewhere there has to be boundaries, and mom has to get the chance to regain some of her energy and have a few minutes without being touched, slept against, called, challenged. We are only human, at least I am.

Now I sound like a horrible mom. Lol. I love my son. More than anything. But I need my breathing space sometimes. Even if that means an hour after Barry has gone to bed, sleeping without him with me, and the hour that he naps in the day. And he needs to learn to be his own person, and can relax in his bed.


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## AlwaysPraying

Luz that's an inspiring and thoughtful post. Thank you for that. I appreciate your honesty and agree with so much of it!!

Tonight we decided to cry it out. Well he went to bed fine cried for two mins I put him back in bed and cried for another two mins then he fell asleep!!! Ok night one a success yes but a fluke is more like it. I thank god he went down easy I was so nervous but tomorrow is another day. He was very angry I left him but only fought for a moment. He had a very busy day and I made sure he didn't nap so he was good and tired. I think all the stars lined up tonight. I'm grateful for tonight and waitin for tomorrow.


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## Luzelle

Alwayspraying, how wonderful that you had that'fluke'!!! I am so happy for you. I hope you have a good night's sleep. Will send you a pm.


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## AlwaysPraying

Well he woke up freaking screaming at 2:45am. We did the method and it took what seemed like a million "putting him back to bed" but it was just over an hour before he fell asleep again. It broke my heart but he's sleeping now and it's 4am. I felt like he woke up pissed off that I left him last night!!


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## Ozzieshunni

I'm not quite sure what you're wanting people to tell you at this point. Everyone has tried to be helpful. What do you feel you want to do? I believe you need to have a talk with your OH.


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## Luzelle

Well done for persevering. You are gonna get there. From my own experience, he might wake up early for the day though. Just go with it and get up, you probably wont get him to sleep again if it is light outside. Try the afternoon nap again. Good job!


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## AlwaysPraying

Ozzieshunni said:


> I'm not quite sure what you're wanting people to tell you at this point. Everyone has tried to be helpful. What do you feel you want to do? I believe you need to have a talk with your OH.

Everyone has been extremely helpful and I appreciate it all so much! I'm continuing this thread as a bit of a journal now. And looking for support going on.


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## AlwaysPraying

He ended up taking an hour to settle from 2:45-3:45am and then slept until 7:30am so another win. He woke happy and asked to have the gate down. I was releived he didn't scream to be let out or screamed because he was mad at me. 

Him and his dad are playing while I'm getting a little extra sleep. The first horrible night over, lets see what nap time brings today. I'm doing the right thing because its from a place of love. I wanted so badly to rescue him but I know he has to learnt to self settle and I have tried so many other options in this last year. I didn't rush into CIO or do it easily or without understanding. For that I feel more confident in my choice.


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## moomoo

AlwaysPraying said:


> Well he woke up freaking screaming at 2:45am. We did the method and it took what seemed like a million "putting him back to bed" but it was just over an hour before he fell asleep again. It broke my heart but he's sleeping now and it's 4am. I felt like he woke up pissed off that I left him last night!!

Keep at it, you cant give him mixed messages now, also make sure OH and yourself are reading from the same song sheet and he's doing the same as you.

:hugs: Weve done CIO with DS, it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do and went against every grain of what I am as a parent but It was the last thing to try!

Your next one will be an angel x


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## jojo_b

Such a good post Luzelle. Couldn't agree more. We haven't used CIC but haven't needed to. I think it's great that you're prepared to be so honest - if we were in your situation I think we would have CC or CIOed too x


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## pinklightbulb

Ozzie: I would say she wants to be sure she's doing CIO "right" and still looking for advice? There are right and wrong ways to do it after all and it doesn't work in one night. It can be hard and I know I would have liked the support myself when I used CC.

AlwaysPraying: You did really, really well. What you described your toddler doing is actually on the lighter end of the scale for CIO at this age. I've seen a couple of toddlers scream for far longer than an hour, and particularly stubborn ones will make themselves sick over and over again. And before anyone says anything, these toddlers were fine when put to bed, and being watched on a video monitor. It was quite clear what they were up to, lol.

It's tough to start CIO at this age as a toddler can manipulate so well. You just have to show them who's boss. I know that sounds draconian, but as Luzelle said, nobody benefits on night after night of broken sleep. Toddlers can be horrible when they miss a nap, never mind losing sleep all night.

Different methods work for different kids. But I've never heard of CIO failing when done correctly. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and it can feel like a lifetime when you're listening to them screaming. But the trade-off at the end, is a much happier toddler who will learn to self-settle, and be a different child during the day because they've actually had some sleep.


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## JASMAK

Hon, you can post as long as you want, and I will be here xx


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## AlwaysPraying

Thanks j, and everyone. It's daunting but your support is really getting me through. Being hormonal and so close to the edge this is all really hard. Knowing I'm trying and working my best for his best interest is what keeps me going.


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## Luzelle

People tend to think moms who do CIO are 'hard', when actually more often they are just at the end of their tether, having exhausted all other options. When you do it from a place of love - love for your child, yourself, and your whole family- it is a very good option and often the only one. My child's behaviour. Was affecting not only him, but me, my husband, and our marriage too. I felt physically ill doing it, but oh boy, its been so worth it. Listening to him singing to himself in bed before falling asleep, while I sit down with a cup of tea and a smile on my face, is so worth it.


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## PrincessLeah

Luzelle said:


> People tend to think moms who do CIO are 'hard', when actually more often they are just at the end of their tether, having exhausted all other options. When you do it from a place of love - love for your child, yourself, and your whole family- it is a very good option and often the only one. My child's behaviour. Was affecting not only him, but me, my husband, and our marriage too. I felt physically ill doing it, but oh boy, its been so worth it. Listening to him singing to himself in bed before falling asleep, while I sit down with a cup of tea and a smile on my face, is so worth it.

Well said. CIO takes ALOT of heart to see through. Your posts are spot on :thumbup:

AlwaysPraying, we are all behind you. You'll find a way through this. And remember the mummies motto : This too shall pass!!


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## Ozzieshunni

I understand that you've made the difficult choice to CIO, but I'm wondering why some of my questions have been unanswered. Does your OH support you with bedtime? Also, is your son being reassured because of all the changes going on around him? I don't think this is just a sleep issue from what I can see. You say you've moved, there's a new baby coming, renovations to your house....it's a lot for a little guy to take.


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## Dragonfly

Ozzieshunni said:


> I understand that you've made the difficult choice to CIO, but I'm wondering why some of my questions have been unanswered. Does your OH support you with bedtime? Also, is your son being reassured because of all the changes going on around him? I don't think this is just a sleep issue from what I can see. You say you've moved, there's a new baby coming, renovations to your house....it's a lot for a little guy to take.

I tend to agree here. I dont see this as the best answer but something that can cause more long term problems when new baby comes kids are going to be unsettled with the change anyway. This seems a lot with CIO to place on a toddler. I say this with the up most concern and hope I dont get my block knocked off for it. I have posted links to help earlier on. I can post some more, even books etc


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## AlwaysPraying

Dragonfly said:


> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> I understand that you've made the difficult choice to CIO, but I'm wondering why some of my questions have been unanswered. Does your OH support you with bedtime? Also, is your son being reassured because of all the changes going on around him? I don't think this is just a sleep issue from what I can see. You say you've moved, there's a new baby coming, renovations to your house....it's a lot for a little guy to take.
> 
> I tend to agree here. I dont see this as the best answer but something that can cause more long term problems when new baby comes kids are going to be unsettled with the change anyway. This seems a lot with CIO to place on a toddler. I say this with the up most concern and hope I dont get my block knocked off for it. I have posted links to help earlier on. I can post some more, even books etcClick to expand...

Let me answer:
Yes my husband totally supports bedtime. He's a willing and eager dad who doesn't know a lot about the details of parenting but supports choices that we discuss and decide on

We moved 5 weeks ago now, and renovations are done two stories below (so not in our sons living space at all), and baby is coming, yes. Introducing CIO now was decided because, as I've stated, I have tried many many many other methods before this last resort. And because baby is coming, we need to focus on our sons well being and get him settled and secure in his sleep time process. 

As far as causing "more long term problems" I put this in the category of - everyone is entitled to their opinion. I also respect any studies, research or supporting evidence you may want to provide, but I can do the same and there is as much opposing information that CIO doesn't destroy a child. This is something I'm not going to argue or entertain because I've made my decision based on lots of research, my sons history and our family personality and dynamic. I can simply sum up my choice by saying it IS detrimental for his sleep to be disturbed as it has been for over 14 months now, inconsistency from me and his father is damaging, having my son see his mother cry, shout, slam and loose my temper is damaging. Yes that's my "fault" and responsibility to correct but after 14 months I do hit my limit and break from time to time. I truly believe he understands that I'm upset when he's not sleeping properly and what kind of damage does that do to a poor boy? Instead I'm reinstating my parenting and control, making a choice to settle him the best way I see fit, and something he doesn't agree with or understand, so he's challenging that. I see it comparable to telling a child to clean a room or study when they don't want to. I believe that he does understand my intentions are pure and when goals are met we are all more successful for it. 

As for the baby coming, I am doing this mostly because when she comes our house will be crazy and out of sorts for many weeks. I'm establishing a calm, bedtime process, before baby comes when I can focus on my son only and have him secure and confident in bed long before his sister arrives. So when she does come and he becomes unsettled again, it won't be heartbreaking or tragic as it could be, it will be a min smoother transition because of the foundation I'm putting in place now.


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## Dragonfly

I was talking about the new baby arrival there with long term...I did say that. Sibling rively starts soon as the new baby is born, even William had it. 

Best of luck to you all and hope all your stress calms down to.


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## AlwaysPraying

I'm not here to debate my choices, only to make an informed one. Lookig for support and confidence and I've found lots. Also contrasting opinions are good too, I appreicate how it makes me do a double extra take on it all.


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## BethK

Sorry I seem to have missed where you said it but I'm sure you said CC had worked in the past. Would you not prefer to try that again as you know it can work if you stick to it. Is it not better than CIO?


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## BethK

pinklightbulb said:


> Ozzie: I would say she wants to be sure she's doing CIO "right" and still looking for advice? There are right and wrong ways to do it after all and it doesn't work in one night. It can be hard and I know I would have liked the support myself when I used CC.
> 
> AlwaysPraying: You did really, really well. What you described your toddler doing is actually on the lighter end of the scale for CIO at this age. I've seen a couple of toddlers scream for far longer than an hour, and particularly stubborn ones will make themselves sick over and over again. And before anyone says anything, these toddlers were fine when put to bed, and being watched on a video monitor. It was quite clear what they were up to, lol.
> 
> It's tough to start CIO at this age as a toddler can manipulate so well. You just have to show them who's boss. I know that sounds draconian, but as Luzelle said, nobody benefits on night after night of broken sleep. Toddlers can be horrible when they miss a nap, never mind losing sleep all night.
> 
> Different methods work for different kids. But I've never heard of CIO failing when done correctly. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and it can feel like a lifetime when you're listening to them screaming. But the trade-off at the end, is a much happier toddler who will learn to self-settle, and be a different child during the day because they've actually had some sleep.

How can CIO be done incorrectly?
Isn't it a case of putting the baby in the cot and walk away and leave them to scream until they drop off from exhaustion?


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## AlwaysPraying

BethK said:


> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> Ozzie: I would say she wants to be sure she's doing CIO "right" and still looking for advice? There are right and wrong ways to do it after all and it doesn't work in one night. It can be hard and I know I would have liked the support myself when I used CC.
> 
> AlwaysPraying: You did really, really well. What you described your toddler doing is actually on the lighter end of the scale for CIO at this age. I've seen a couple of toddlers scream for far longer than an hour, and particularly stubborn ones will make themselves sick over and over again. And before anyone says anything, these toddlers were fine when put to bed, and being watched on a video monitor. It was quite clear what they were up to, lol.
> 
> It's tough to start CIO at this age as a toddler can manipulate so well. You just have to show them who's boss. I know that sounds draconian, but as Luzelle said, nobody benefits on night after night of broken sleep. Toddlers can be horrible when they miss a nap, never mind losing sleep all night.
> 
> Different methods work for different kids. But I've never heard of CIO failing when done correctly. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and it can feel like a lifetime when you're listening to them screaming. But the trade-off at the end, is a much happier toddler who will learn to self-settle, and be a different child during the day because they've actually had some sleep.
> 
> How can CIO be done incorrectly?
> Isn't it a case of putting the baby in the cot and walk away and leave them to scream until they drop off from exhaustion?Click to expand...

My god, no not at all. That's the exact issue with CIO. People had a total misconception of it. 

I have a very tight schedule of bath, drink, 2 books, kiss, hug, goodnight song and I tuck him in and leave. I stand outside the door and wait. When he gets of of his bed I walk in and the first time I tell him "the bedtime" walk him back to bed, tuck him in kiss and leave. Wait until he gets out again and repeat. The third time he leaves the bed I don't say anything I just walk in and walk him to bed and tuck him in. This happens over and over. The crying part occurs when he stays in bed (which is success) but he gets upset about having to. He is choosing of his own will go stay in bed and be mad about it. When he tries to leave his bed he very quickly knows that I am there for him physically and emotionally and I tuck him in every time. So he soon realizes that he has to follow the rule of staying in bed the whole time knowing mom and / or dad is very close. 

Now there is a CIO method that includes leaving the child in the room and holding the door shut or locking it leaving the child to wander the room until exhaustion. Eventually the child gives up and learns to sleep on his own with no other options. 

The method I've chosen still shows him I am there for him, and he gets to express his emotions (crying) and choose himself to stay in the bed. Essentially giving up the process of getting up because he knows he will only be walked back into bed. 

Now, I have chosen this method and I can't continue defending it. It took me 14 months of pain and trials to get here and am looking for support, not judgement. Especially after all I've gone through to get here. I do totally understand the resistance but I've done my homework. 

And controlled crying is only recommended until they are 2 and still in a crib.


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## AlwaysPraying

All that being said....I'm finding that I'm much more relaxed and he is much more calm. I'm not anxious about bedtimes now. I have a good solid plan and it seems to really be working. As soon as I go in his room he turns and walks to his bed because he just knows! He cries but its not tragic. And he's more just mad and tired. It's not the heart wrenching horrible experience I first worried it was going to be. 

I should watch my words before he goes to bed tonight!! Wish us luck!


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## catfromaus

Glad you are feeling good- hope things keep getting better. I agree with getting things settled before baby- it will be a bit hectic for a while, and the less stress then, the better.


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## Luzelle

Sounds like you are feeling better and more in control of the situation now. Which is a huge thing, it gives you a mental break. You'll see, it gets easier every day - although sometimes after a few days you can suddenly have a big 'speedbump' where they revert back to their old ways suddenly, just as you thought everything was finally over, be on the lookout for that and be consistent. It usually only lasts one, maybe two episodes, ie naps. 
I remember putting Barry to bed once, I stopped counting when I came to the thirtieth time that I put him back in bed, lol. 
Does he nap during the day, too? And how is your pregnancy going? Good luck!


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## Luzelle

Oh and for those that are interested, when you do CIO or a big change of routine like this, then it is a good idea to try to give extra cuddles and quality playtime etc during the day. Not as a reward, just to give that physical contact, attention and loving to your child that they need no matter what your parenting style is, just with a bit of extra cuddles and kisses and tickles added. ;)


----------



## BethK

AlwaysPraying said:


> BethK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> Ozzie: I would say she wants to be sure she's doing CIO "right" and still looking for advice? There are right and wrong ways to do it after all and it doesn't work in one night. It can be hard and I know I would have liked the support myself when I used CC.
> 
> AlwaysPraying: You did really, really well. What you described your toddler doing is actually on the lighter end of the scale for CIO at this age. I've seen a couple of toddlers scream for far longer than an hour, and particularly stubborn ones will make themselves sick over and over again. And before anyone says anything, these toddlers were fine when put to bed, and being watched on a video monitor. It was quite clear what they were up to, lol.
> 
> It's tough to start CIO at this age as a toddler can manipulate so well. You just have to show them who's boss. I know that sounds draconian, but as Luzelle said, nobody benefits on night after night of broken sleep. Toddlers can be horrible when they miss a nap, never mind losing sleep all night.
> 
> Different methods work for different kids. But I've never heard of CIO failing when done correctly. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and it can feel like a lifetime when you're listening to them screaming. But the trade-off at the end, is a much happier toddler who will learn to self-settle, and be a different child during the day because they've actually had some sleep.
> 
> How can CIO be done incorrectly?
> Isn't it a case of putting the baby in the cot and walk away and leave them to scream until they drop off from exhaustion?Click to expand...
> 
> My god, no not at all. That's the exact issue with CIO. People had a total misconception of it.
> 
> I have a very tight schedule of bath, drink, 2 books, kiss, hug, goodnight song and I tuck him in and leave. I stand outside the door and wait. When he gets of of his bed I walk in and the first time I tell him "the bedtime" walk him back to bed, tuck him in kiss and leave. Wait until he gets out again and repeat. The third time he leaves the bed I don't say anything I just walk in and walk him to bed and tuck him in. This happens over and over. The crying part occurs when he stays in bed (which is success) but he gets upset about having to. He is choosing of his own will go stay in bed and be mad about it. When he tries to leave his bed he very quickly knows that I am there for him physically and emotionally and I tuck him in every time. So he soon realizes that he has to follow the rule of staying in bed the whole time knowing mom and / or dad is very close.
> 
> Now there is a CIO method that includes leaving the child in the room and holding the door shut or locking it leaving the child to wander the room until exhaustion. Eventually the child gives up and learns to sleep on his own with no other options.
> 
> The method I've chosen still shows him I am there for him, and he gets to express his emotions (crying) and choose himself to stay in the bed. Essentially giving up the process of getting up because he knows he will only be walked back into bed.
> 
> Now, I have chosen this method and I can't continue defending it. It took me 14 months of pain and trials to get here and am looking for support, not judgement. Especially after all I've gone through to get here. I do totally understand the resistance but I've done my homework.
> 
> And controlled crying is only recommended until they are 2 and still in a crib.Click to expand...

I'm not asking you to defend your actions. If you feel you're doing the right thing then you shouldn't have to defend it?

What you described isn't what I was told CIO is. I thought cry it out meant they're literally left to cry it out, no?

What you describe is a form of CC isn't it?

Anyway, goodluck


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## Ozzieshunni

Beth, you're right. CIO is leaving to cry without comfort. CC is leaving to cry for a set time and returning to soothe.


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## BethK

Ozzieshunni said:


> Beth, you're right. CIO is leaving to cry without comfort. CC is leaving to cry for a set time and returning to soothe.

Thanks hun, thought i was going mad.

If LO gets out of her bed i tell her it's bed time, give a kiss and put her straight back, then if she does it again i'll do the same, next time i'll just put her back and carry on like that. Sounds the same as OP is doing.

However to me that's DEFINITELY not CIO, which personally i would not do. So it did confuse me when OP said that it was CIO.


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## Dragonfly

https://www.parenting-with-love.com/the-birth-of-a-new-baby-helping-your-toddler-cope/
Maybe of use to you when new baby comes along.


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## Ozzieshunni

BethK said:


> Ozzieshunni said:
> 
> 
> Beth, you're right. CIO is leaving to cry without comfort. CC is leaving to cry for a set time and returning to soothe.
> 
> Thanks hun, thought i was going mad.
> 
> If LO gets out of her bed i tell her it's bed time, give a kiss and put her straight back, then if she does it again i'll do the same, next time i'll just put her back and carry on like that. Sounds the same as OP is doing.
> 
> However to me that's DEFINITELY not CIO, which personally i would not do. So it did confuse me when OP said that it was CIO.Click to expand...

No worries. :flower:


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## RedRose

AlwaysPraying, not that you're asking for anyone's opinion on your parenting as a whole, but for what it's worth I think you're doing a great job and I really hope things get easier from here :hugs:

I think you're doing 100% the right thing, and the sooner you sort his sleeping before the new baby arrives, the better for all of you.

Toddlers are really hard but you're doing great and everything's gonna be fine x


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## Ziggy2

Good on you for taking charge, toddlers know how to push our buttons and u will all feel so much better when u are well rested!


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## jojo_b

Totally agree with redrose. Whatever title is put on it, your routine is consistent and calm, which I know from experience can be really hard when you're knackered! Fair play! :thumbup:


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## AlwaysPraying

It's been a few days now and he really seems to be picking up the routine. I'm letting him nap for an hour max and I think that's really helping. He still is taking 45 mins to fall asleep, I'm convinced that's just his little personality. He will get out of bed a handful of times, sometime he will cry others he will get mad, but even then that part only lasts for 20 mins or so. Then he plays with his teddy bear and falls asleep. He seems to be waking one night and sleeping through the next. I'm not sure what to make of that. Last night was hard. He was up from 2-3am crying. I comforted him and he'd nod off but then wake crying again. I think that was a dream or something other than bedtime stuff. Whenever he does get up in the night it hasn't lasted longer than an hour, thank god. We picked 6:30 as our earliest wake up time. If he gets up before then we go back to putting him back to bed and crying it out over and over until 6:30. Just picked this yesterday and today he woke up at 6:20 so we got up with him, it's close enough. 

I'm hoping for some more calm days. Everyday is better. Actually the day before yesterday was the best, then yesterday was hard, but I'm seeing major progress in all of us. Dad wakes up with us everytime, we negotiate who gets up really early with him and the whole house seems calmer.


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## Luzelle

Wonderful.


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## catfromaus

Sounds great xx


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## pinklightbulb

Fantastic! :) :happydance:


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## AlwaysPraying

I feel so much more in control and its wonderful. I feel like I'm doing him good by finally giving proper structure. I thought our bedtime schedule was good but it was anything but. One day we would shower, the next we'd bath, one day we'd read books, the next we'd play a game, etc. the theme was always the same but its amazing how doing exactly the same thing everyday actually makes him anticipate what's coming next. He knows after bath is on time, then a quick show, then 2 books. He may ask for more tv or more books but you can so easily tell he knows what's supposed to happen. So by the time bedtime comes he knows; and like I said, he may not always agree or want it, but he knows. 

Almost a week in and I feel good. I pray this is a long term solution. Everything we've tried in the past has sort of worked or worked good enough but this is dramatically different than it ever has been. Here's hoping!


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## Luzelle

Ah it'll go well, you will see. Maybe some minor hiccups when he gets sick or baby comes, but nothing you wont be able to handle. I think there is a lot of comfort and security for them in having a routine, especially if your child has the type of personality that need it. Barry actually seemed 'relieved' for the lack of a better word, when the pressure was not on him to decide everything any more.


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## AlwaysPraying

I'm assuming tonight is what you mean when you said hiccups. Lol. He's working me pretty hard tonight after a few really great nights so I shouldn't complain. 

He's staying in his room though so I'm contemplating leaving him be? (Instead of going in and putting him back in his bed). Earlier in this process bed come out of his room entirely screaming, now he's just whining and fussing around. I can hear him go back to his bed every so often. 

I know the process is to take him back to his bed every time he gets out but do you think it's ok to leave him be? He's not melting down or getting terribly upset. He's also not even tried getting out of his room, which the door is just shut not locked or anything. 

Wow you guys are getting a live time feed. He just turned on his light and came out. He's not a happy camper!! 

He had a very laid back day and was pretty wired up when he was getting ready for bed. So I'm not totally surprised.


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## AlwaysPraying

Wow, so that was fierce but short! 15 mins and he's out.


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## moomoo

Great news! Glad things are looking better for you!


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## OmarsMum

Great news, glad it's getting better Hun :hugs:


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## polaris

It sounds like you are getting a really good handle on it. OK so there are good nights and not so good nights but the difference is that you now sound confident in how you are going to handle it either way. Well done!! Lovely to see your hard work pay off. :happydance::happydance:


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## fizzy2010

This has been a really interesting read for me. Our daughter has been having sleep issues for a few weeks and, while we are going down a very soft and easy going route with her, I have found all your comments very interesting to read. It just shows that there is no 'right' way to do things- only a way that is right for your family. X


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## AlwaysPraying

As always, thank you so much for all your support. 

Last night we were out until bedtime, came home sleeping in the car and put him to bed in his clothing. Ended up changing him at 10pm. He woke for 5 mins around 1am and then slept until 5:45am. 

It's nice to know unstructured is ok to on the random night. I was so worried that last night would mess everything up and he'd wake up or not sleep well. It ended up being a pretty normal night. Back to routine today which is good but nice to know he can be flexible (which means so can I) and all isn't lost.


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## stardust599

Oh hun, this must be really hard. My DD went through a little stage of not sleeping before DS was born (he's 3months now) and it was HELL. Thankfully we got her sleeping before DS arrived as he is a terrible sleeper and I couldn't cope with the 2 of them up!

I don't think he's getting too much sleep, I disagree with some of the others! My DD naps 2.5hours a day and sleeps 12hours+ at night, she is 2 next week. Sleep is really important for young LOs and the less they sleep the less they seem to think they need! It can affect their mood too and will cause nighttime wakings and early morning wakings if they are overtired.

Your LO is too old for cry it out. I'd try Super Nanny's back to bed technique.

https://www.supernanny.co.uk/Advice...Teamwork/Getting-Toddlers-to-Stay-in-Bed.aspx

I would shorten your bedtime routine a bit, it's quite long and toddlers don't have the capability to think so far ahead. Your LO sounds very very "spirited" like mine too and a long bedtime routine actually winds them up more!

Ours -
At 6.20pm we switch the TV off, shut the curtains, tidy up toys (DD protests but it winds her down once it's quiet and calm) turn the lights down and I get DD to help me get her pyjamas and towel out and run the bath. Bath is ready around 6.30pm and she goes for a quick bath (she always protests again but fine once she's in the bath), I keep the bath short and quiet, just 1 or 2 toys and a quick wash and brush teeth. Then we come out and put DDs pyjamas on, have a cuddle and DD has a drink of water.. Then around 6.45pm we switch the TV off, kiss + cuddle for Mummy, Daddy and her brother and say night night then I pop her in her cot and tuck her in. She always goes to sleep within 30mins (usually lays there quietly) and sleeps until after 7am when she hears us get up. 

The odd time if she's not sleeping in 20/30min I go in, tell her it's time to go to sleep and tuck her back in. She sometimes wakes in the night if she hears me up to feed DS but it's really rare and I just need to go in and say night night it's still sleepy time and put her back under the covers. If she wakes before 6.45am ish I always act like it's still nighttime and she has a blackout blind. 

Naptime is the same everyday too. She has lunch around 12.30pm while I shut the curtains and tidy toys away then we clean her up, change her nappy and say night night, kisses etc. and put her in her cot before 1pm. I wake her up at 3.30pm.

The only thing I can suggest is being super consistent and trying to get a hold on things now before baby arrives as there's no way he'll go back to bed when he knows baby is awake. Keep us updated x


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## AlwaysPraying

I appreciate your input stardust but we have come to a wonderful resolve after just 1 week and 14 pages of my ranting, raving and questioning! Our version of cry it out has worked miracles with him in a very short time.


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## danismom10

You're not a shit mom, just a tired one! I'm not sure if you want to try the CIO, but this is what finally worked for us. Your son isn't 10 months and more mobile, but if you keep putting him back in bed when he gets out and say "night night", it could be worth a try. I tried the CIO where I stayed in the room with her/ went in and checked on her every 10 minutes and it just got her more and more worked up.

My daughter was horrible to get to bed from NB and one night I just had enough. My SIL had just done this with her DD so I thought I'd give it a try. DH works crazy hours. He doesn't get home until 7pm and needs to go to bed at 9pm so that he can get up at 2:30am and do it all over. My DD wasn't going to bed until at least 12am, so we had no time together at all during the week. She was about 10 months when I started a bedtime routine. It went like this:

We did a play time in a bubble bath right after dinner, and then lotion, diaper & PJ's etc. She'd brush her teeth and then I turned on "sleepy music" when she finished. We'd go out and cuddle daddy for a few minutes and then give kisses and I'd take her room and turn off her light. Held and cuddled her for a few minutes and then put her down and said "night night". Left the room, kept her door open a crack and had the hallway light on so she knew we didn't just leave her.
The first night I felt like a horrible mom. She cried for 45 minutes and then got quiet. I went in to cover her up and she woke up and cried for 15 more. Then the second night she cried for 15 and was out. On the third night she whined for about 10 and was out. It got better and easier as long as I didn't give in. 
I switched her to a toddler bed about 3 months ago (she just turned 2) and we've keep the same routine and music (drives dh batty but that's too bad for him) and she doesn't get out of bed at bed time. We're still working on nap time though now. :shrug: Once she hears her music she mellows right out. I baby proofed about everything I could in her room and put one of those child door knob safety things on the inside of her door so she can't wander out in the morning, because I don't trust her to not get into kitchen knives etc yet. 

I hope you find something that works for you! :)


Edit~ I didn't read the whole thread before I posted. Sorry! I'm so glad you found something that's working. Sounds like you have it close to down now, good job Mom! My DD depends on her bedtime routine now! She just knows and I think it's comforting to her. His bedtime routine will be something he can depend on once baby comes and everything is crazy for a while. :)


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## AlwaysPraying

I wanted to update and say my lack of posts is because we are doing so well. Bedtime is predictable for everyone. He will ask for more tv or another book but when I say it's bedtime he knows right away and doesn't push. He's still waking up early but that's totally ok. He's getting 11-12 hours of sleep in a 24 hour day which is what he should get so I'm good if he's good. 

Thanks for everyone's support.


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## pinklightbulb

Amazing :) Well done chick!


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