# How gender-specific are you?



## Kess

With your little ones, how much do you conform to expectations about their gender? Do you...

...dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?
...buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example?
...buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"?
...buy the pink version of a standard toy for your girl?
...let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants?


----------



## chell5544

I have two girls so can't comment on the boys things I try not to conform too much when DD1 was younger I brought what she liked at 18 months it was animals and farms so that's what she got I didn't bother going for the pink version, for a first birthday she got brought a fire engine as she always played with my mates little boys one when we used to go round there, she also has a castle that she enjoys playing with as she got older she conformed herself she now likes anything to do with princesses and is very very girly her favourite colour is purple and at the moment her favourite toy is her dolly 
I don't tend to dress my babies in dresses as it just looks uncomfortable in my eyes they live in leggings and tops for the first 18 months of there lives untill they can properly walk


----------



## smelly07

I also have two daughters and always bought toys and books aimed at either/or sex 

i.e 'thats not my fairy' books i would also buy 'thats not my dinosaur' books too 

toys the same i would buy cars and a garage, bricks, tools, etc but also buy dolls, ponies, princess's 

i also bought a lot of educational toys which are gender orientated i.e stickle bricks, poipoids, inter stars etc

i never put my daughters in dress's until they were walking confidently opting for two piece sets of jeans and a top of shorts and tshirt when older and mainly romper suits and all in ones when younger -(my MIL use to complain about this with my eldest daughter (first grandaughter) was never dressed 'girly' enough) 

My eldest daughter isnt a girly girl - she is 7 but my youngest is 3 and wants to dress 'girly' and hates most of the clothes i bought her - she likes pink and dresses and skirts and glitter and sparkles and make up and all things girly - i have no idea where it comes from as i have never been thats girls and thats boys etc but its definitely her telling me this is what she likes and what she wants to wear now lol.


----------



## CaptainMummy

I never dress paige super girly, mostly because i think she will get cold in just a dress and tights! She usually wears leggings/jeans and a tshirt with jumper or cardi over it. Admittedly, usually something she wears is girly, eg. Today she has a pink and blue striped jumper on. I canr imagine a boy wearing it, but its not girly girl stuff.

As for toys, she gets a mixture, but she definitely prefers 'girls toys' as her favourites as her dolls and teddies and playing house. I did suggest a garage for her xmas but tbh, i dont think she would like it as much as her dolls pram and baby chou chou that we got her instead.

People mistake her for a boy all the time though. Dont know why, maybe because she still has little hair and wears a red coat which could make her look boyish?


----------



## Bex84

I buy my little girl what I think she will like. We don't tend to go for the pink alternative. She has pink things such as her fisher price push chair but then she also has a blue fold up push chair. Her dolls house has a pink roof but that just happened to be the colour. She has animals, cars, bricks, dolls, cuddly toys etc its about what she likes. A for clothes it is a real mix. She has dresses but also has trousers, leggings, jeans, skirts etc... we don't stick to pink. In fact pink things are usually what she has been bought by someone else. My LOs favorate thing in the world is her baby doll but she will also spend ages playing cars or dinosaurs. In fact yesterdays game included her happyland toys been attacked by a dinosaur lol. I want my lo to grow up to be what she wants to be, we go around whole shop instead of just going to pink section. If I had a boy I would be the same


----------



## Gbobs

I only have a boy. I find that most boys clothes are generally quite masculine anyway - Jeans, combat pants, T-shirts etc.

As for toys, he mostly gets bought quite boyish books - dinosaurs, cars, Thomas the Tank Engine etc. A lot of the toys he had when he was younger were quite neutral but we do tend to buy him quite boyish toys now. Partly because he loves them - he just loves cars and trucks etc. Saying that he's never really been around girly toys.

If I had a girl, I don't think I would dress her in particularly girly clothes and lots of pink. I've never been an overly girly girl so would stick to pretty but not overly effeminate clothes.


----------



## smokey

As a baby lo was mostly in browns and reds because that colour suited his olive skintone, he didnt wear blue that ofter because the colour made him look jaundice.
As hes got older he still wears the same colours for the same reasons but blue doesnt look as bad on him now but he does have some tops that are ment for girls ie puffyish sleaves or a bit sparkly because they had minnie mouse on them and he loves minnie mouse so I didnt see the harm.
He loves anything to do with cinderella and tinkerbell so has a few items with them on but also loves his cars and traines.
He loves to bake with his daddy where his little aprun and uses his kitchen and mixer when hes making cakes with daddy (daddy does all the cooking and food shopping so hes learning from him that theses arnt just womens jobs).
But then he also has some very typical boyish likes as well such as cars, traines, pirates along with some "girl" toys like a kitchen, hoover and fairy dolls.
My brother was awfull with their son, he wasnt allowed to play with anything girly and the one time he went near a toy kitchen my brother hit the roof.

With Brian its a case of if he likes it I dont mind


----------



## Scottishmum2B

We don't buy gender specific. We have a little girl. She is never in dresses, mainly because they just don't suit her, she is always in leggings. She has pink ones but also blue, same for her tshirts. Family members usually buy her 'girly' things, like a pink pushchair and she got a car garage for her birthday, which is the girl version. I wouldn't buy anything because of the particular colour. My MIL is always saying she is a 'Tom boy' because she likes to climb and play with cars/trucks. I wouldn't call her that for playing that way, she is just a child and will play how she wants to. I don't force dolls on her, my MIL is another story though! (I think it's because she had 2 boys and never had a girl in the family so buys her dresses which she really doesn't suit).
Saying all that, if she wants to wear dresses when she can choose her clothes, she will get them.
If we have a boy, I would be just the same, I wouldn't force action men and trucks on him if he wanted to play with dolls or anything classed as 'girly'.

x


----------



## Jade--x

I have two boys, when they were younger they were mainly in very neutral colours, cream brown yellow red, as they really suited them, but as they get older you get very limited to clothes you can buy boys :/ Mine are usually in jeans/chinos with a top/shirt and a cardi /jacket. I have dressed them in pink though - They were intentionally made for boys (pink shirts and pink polo tee) as my oldest likes pink and I don't see a thing wrong with it - Plus they look super cute :blush: 
My oldest has long curly blonde hair and is forever being mistaken for a girl - He loves his hair he screams at you if you ask him if you can cut it off and tells you you can only cut his fringe and I love his hair - But it does wind certain people up when someone compliments 'her' and they lose their temper abit saying he's a 'he' :haha:
As for toys when they were younger they had toys that were for either a boy or girl. As they've got older they have what they want - If my LO wanted a doll I don't see anything wrong with it whereas I got told I was 'making him gay' - He's 3! Besides I wouldn't give a damn if he was gay what's wrong with gay people :shrug: x


----------



## Lellow

I dress my son in typically boy clothes...cos he's a boy.

It was a special religious occassion a few weeks back and i got Aymen some traditional wear which by all accounts basically could look like a dress...its not but to a 2 yr old he thought it was....He screamed the house down when i was dressing him, literally fighting me not to get his head into the head hole...and why? Because he thought i was putting him in a dress.

So he knows what he likes, so i stick with what distresses him least.

As for other things like toys and books etc, i let him choose and he will usually opt for blues, yellows and greens and isnt drawn to the more stereotypical girly colours and thats cool with me, so if i or DH do buy him things when he's not there to pick by himself, we do go for the more boy-ish colours.

Thats not to say we wouldnt allow him to choose pinks/purples etc, but we follow his lead and he likes what he likes so we contribute to that.

Aymen is a boy so we picked a male name for him, i wouldnt dream of calling him what we consider a girls name just so that i can say that i wanted to allow him to be open to both gender stereotypes cos quite frankly, we dont want him to encounter ridicule from his peers/others just because we dont want to force a gender type on to him...he is what he is at the end of the day.

Aymen is boisterous, playful, likes to climb and play fight with us and expresses typically male characterisitics so we embrace that...theres nothing wrong with being one gender or another and following that genders stereotypical norms.


----------



## supertabby

We have a girl and do a mix - most days she wears practical pants and tops for nursery but we do put her in dresses sometimes. We buy clothes from the girls and boys sections - girls clothes never have fun things like dinosaurs, pirates and spiders etc - all of which she likes! She also wears boys shoes as the girls ones are always pink and if we're spending £30 on shoes they need to be neutral and go with everything, so she has boys brown shoes.

Toys, she's got a doll and pushchair, and a hello kitty but everything else is probably unisex or stereotypically boyish. Her favourite book at the moment has facts and photos of reptiles (probably aimed at older children but she loves it!).


----------



## freckleonear

My daughter wears her brother's old clothes about 50% of the time and often gets mistaken for a boy. My son sometimes wears pink or purple tops and flowery embroidered jeans.

I don't think we actually own any pink toys at the moment. The dolls house DD is getting for Christmas has a pink roof, but I chose it because I know she will absolutely love it. Both my children love pink (we have a set of rainbow cups and plates and they always fight over who gets the pink one).

I don't buy gender-specific stuff, all toys are for everyone in this house and I just buy whatever interests them.


----------



## rosie272

I dress Charlie in bright coloured clothes because we like them and he has a doll, he's had a pram, he has pink duplo, a pink teaset and quite happily plays with them all not having a clue that pink is considered "girly". I'm planning on keeping it that way for now - although he did say to me the other day that boys can't be princesses - can't argue with that! :/


----------



## little_lady

Lellow said:


> I dress my son in typically boy clothes...cos he's a boy.
> 
> It was a special religious occassion a few weeks back and i got Aymen some traditional wear which by all accounts basically could look like a dress...its not but to a 2 yr old he thought it was....He screamed the house down when i was dressing him, literally fighting me not to get his head into the head hole...and why? Because he thought i was putting him in a dress.
> 
> So he knows what he likes, so i stick with what distresses him least.
> 
> As for other things like toys and books etc, i let him choose and he will usually opt for blues, yellows and greens and isnt drawn to the more stereotypical girly colours and thats cool with me, so if i or DH do buy him things when he's not there to pick by himself, we do go for the more boy-ish colours.
> 
> Thats not to say we wouldnt allow him to choose pinks/purples etc, but we follow his lead and he likes what we likes so we contribute to that.
> 
> Aymen is a boy so we picked a male name for him, i wouldnt dream of calling him what we consider a girls name just so that i can say that i wanted to allow him to be open to both gender stereotypes cos quite frankly, we dont want him to encounter ridicule from his peers/others just because we dont want to force a gender type on to him...he is what he is at the end of the day.
> 
> Aymen is boisterous, playful, likes to climb and play fight with us and expresses typically male characterisitics so we embrace that...theres nothing wrong with being one gender or another and following that genders stereotypical norms.

I agree with this. I have a little girl and am getting a boy next (all being well). We will be following the normal gender roles. I think it's too confusing to the child to be "open", there is nothing wrong with giving them an identity early on. There is no such thing as neutral parenting, you will always impart SOME opinion to your child.

Having said that, I hate sequins, glitter, fairies and princesses for girls so while I'd like Isabelle to be "girly" in one sense, I'm happy for her to play with gender neutral toys like farm animals or cars. And I always dress her in dresses and tights, I just like how she looks :) she learnt to crawl and walk fine in them so it's not impractical.


----------



## Bingo

I guess I can be a bit gender specific with toys. I do sometimes go for the 'girl' version of things in terms of colour and certainly I like her to be dressed in girl clothes. I used to buy some 'boy' clothes like jogging bottoms/tops when she was smaller but I wouldn't take her out in them. I do however think all girls should have cars and trucks and all boys should have at least one baby doll and a pram. I buy her what I think she'll like and she does love dolls. She's been saying she'd like a digger lately so I think I'll take her to the toy store to chose one. I'd like a ride on one for her but I don't know what exactly she has in mind.


----------



## Palestrina

I dress LO in boy clothes but that's about it in terms of treating him gender specific. I buy him books that are about ballerinas etc, and I buy the "girl versions" of sippy cups, bibs, cutlery, and toys. I want him to feel comfortable using these things. He has dolls and loves them. I'll follow his lead when he wants to turn to all boy stuff.

If I had a girl I would definitely NOT be on the pink band wagon. I really hate all that frilly pink stuff and I'm just being honest, I would try to steer her into a being a tom-boy. I was a tom-boy and love girlie things now but being a tom boy is very important in terms of making a little girl feel confident. 

I've signed up my son for a dance class that starts in January :)


----------



## RachA

Kess said:


> With your little ones, how much do you conform to expectations about their gender? Do you...
> 
> ...dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?
> ...buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example?
> ...buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"?
> ...buy the pink version of a standard toy for your girl?
> ...let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants?

I do dress them so that the boy looks like a boy and the girl a girl as it's always annoyed me when someone has said things like 'oh how cute is your girl' when in fact i was with my son etc.
My boy is my eldest and so we already have a lot of digger etc type of books around which i guess we did buy for him. I wouldn't actively choose a ballerina book for him but if he chooses to read a ballerina book as his school book or from the library i wouldn't say no. Because of having boyish books at home Esther has boy and girl books available and again we don't say no if she wants to read the digger book etc.
We've never bought books like that so i don't know but i would depend i guess - like i wouldn't buy Daniel a '100 things to do with a girls hair book' lol.
Yes i do buy a pink version on a thing for my girl - partly because sometimes i prefer the look of it because it's brighter etc. 
My big does wear pink clothes. He has shirts that have pink as a dominant colour, a polo shirt that is pink and a pair of shorts that are pink. I wouldn't go out and buy him a fairy t-shirt from the girls section of a clothes shop though. TBH he wouldn't want it. Without any prompting from me or OH he has always been a child that is very much into his diggers and cars etc. In the same way that my daughter is a natural housekeeper. Both have been with me when i've been doing the housework and laundry etc but only Esther has tried to actually help me to hang the washing out etc even though both have been encouraged.


I know some people that specifically won't buy their girl things that are pink because it's 'girly' however i think that's almost a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face. I buy things because i like them - if that means they are pink for my girl so be it and if i like the item and it's baby blue then so be it.


----------



## lady_p

Alistair is always dressed in boyish stuff although some of his t-shirts have been pink but they were meant for a boy.

I let him pick a toy for the shop yesterday and he picked a baby girl doll with a pink car seat and bottle, I let him get it and he loves it. I do think he likes it because he has a baby sister and is just enjoying the role play copying what I do with his sister. Most of his toys are considered for boys though and he loves playing with all of them.


----------



## Palestrina

RachA said:


> Kess said:
> 
> 
> With your little ones, how much do you conform to expectations about their gender? Do you...
> 
> ...dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?
> ...buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example?
> ...buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"?
> ...buy the pink version of a standard toy for your girl?
> ...let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants?
> 
> I do dress them so that the boy looks like a boy and the girl a girl as it's always annoyed me when someone has said things like 'oh how cute is your girl' when in fact i was with my son etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> I know some people that specifically won't buy their girl things that are pink because it's 'girly' however i think that's almost a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks I guess. It does not bother me at all when a stranger mistakes my son for a girl, or asks me if it's a boy or girl. I have a hard time understanding why that would bother anyone, sometimes little girls have short hair and look like boys - so what? My son has incredibly beautiful eyes with super long eye lashes and he's extremely pretty... oh well I take it as a compliment.

How would I be cutting my nose off to spite my face because I don't like "blue is for boys and pink is for girls?" Those are rules that other people assign, not me.


----------



## RedRose

I don't like pink or dresses so don't dress Lily that way. She is often mistaken for a boy, which I never minded until Lily started to notice and correct people. I could see that she was really confused by it so I made an effort to buy her girly colours and hairclips.

Anyway, she has totally embraced it and loves pink and dresses and so they are slowly creeping their way into our lives. :lol:

I am not at all against parents treating their kids in a gender specific way, not at all, but I am really keen to avoid the pretty princess = good association. I never want her to feel worthy or commended because of her looks, that's something I feel quite sure about.

Obviously to me she is beauty personified, but I want her self esteem to come from how kind and bright and funny and sweet and silly she is, not from how nice she is to look at, and I find that a lot of girls clothes and toys make it hard to break away from that.


----------



## Lina

I'm happy about and fully embrace gender specific clothes. My little boy won't ever go out in dresses but wears all colours, loves the kitchen so am going to buy him his own miniature version soon and in terms of cutlery the only thing ever in stock when am visiting are "girly colours" and I still buy them. Extremism on either side is just amusing to me.


----------



## Ceejay123

My little mans only ten months, but I'll admit he's usually in Boys clothes. I wouldn't mind what he wanted to wear when he gets to 2/3, though I've a feeling his daddy may haha. I will be buying him a kitchen, ironing board etc that are apparently girls toys (really?) because my sister absolutely loved them. 
Surprisingly his daddy has agreed with me that if he wanted a doll when he's older, then he gets a doll. I don't really buy him 'boy specific' toys, I buy him fisher price things, vetch things and happy land things more than anything which I consider neutral. I was a complete tomboy growing up. His dad wants me to let his hair grow, but I'm not sure. If he gets curls like me and his daddy did, I may let it grow a little until he asks for it to be cut, if its straight down and in his way ill have it cut and he can ask to let it grow later on in life if that's what he wants. Daddy will have to lump my choice on this as he understands all final decisions are mine haha, x


----------



## Gingerspice

We have a girl. We are intending to have another though, so with this in mind we have bought a lot of stuff in primary colours so they can get reused. I don't see the point in bright pink pushchairs or some items (coats, aleeping bags, wetsuits etc) being pink because that just is not condusive to reusing items for future children. I don't want to have to buy everything again just because I chose to get everything in pink, so we go for a lot of reds and greens and yellows so whatever we have next will be able to use them.

Equally LO does wear dresses, but we never buy bright pink dresses. We get pretty dresses but there are loads of pretty dresses without having to be bright pink. 

I'm an engineer and frequently on site. From birth LO has been shown pictures of tunnels being built and diggerd and things. She has a huge obcession with diggers and trains so we are supporting her in that decision. I have never and will never say to here that diggers are for boys and trains are for boys so go and cook in the kitchen. I don't think such stereotypes should get encouraged. Why should she feel there are limits to what she can and can't do because others share that opinion. Its her choice so we give her the full spectrum. Equally OH world means he mingles with singers and dancers so if she started to venture into that world then we'd support her, if she asks for dance/singing lessons etc then I won't stop her. 

I see it as no problem keeping their minds open to beliving everything is open to them. 

If I have a son and he chose to dress up in princess clothes then so be it. I know loads of little boys who do this. Parents often over react to it IMO when all it does is impose societies expectation on them and they then brand themselves to those limitations. 

Generally the whole 'everything bright pink' thing just seems pretty shallow and I associate it to certain people as thats who follows it around here, so I make an effort not to fall into that category.


----------



## MaskedKitteh

Personallly I have 2 boys, so can't comment on girls
But,

...dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?
My boys dress very boyish, lots of blue and red and football, cars, characters.

...buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example? Most of the boys books are not aimed at either gender really, but they have a lot about dinosaurs, cars, monsters, aliens, etc


...buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"? 
I haven't as yet, but I would yeah.

...let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants? No. My boys don't have anything pink. Clothes i'd never do, as for toys neither has ever shown an interest but I'd be reluctant.


----------



## OmarsMum

I dress Omar from the boys section :rofl: colour is not an issue, he wears pink, orange, purple, blue, green, etc. the only colours I don't dress him in are black & brown (very dull), he's in shorts & t-shirts all the time it I still get asked if he's a girl or a boy :wacko: . His features are too soft, so he does look girly. His hair was long but now it's shorter but no so boy-ish.

As for toys he has all sorts of toys, his trampoline is bright pink, his doll is pink, he loves to play with his tea set & kitchen more the cars or trucks, DH got him a dinosaur 2 days back but he wasn't impressed. He has the boys version mega blocks, but we got him a girls version bag to add more colours. He has a car garage, train set, etc. we (I :blush:) love toys & we buy all sort of toys. 

We never bought gender specific books & never thought about it. 

His name is masculine & very strong traditional Islamic name but he has a feminine nickname :rofl:


----------



## SwissMiss

RedRose said:


> I am not at all against parents treating their kids in a gender specific way, not at all, but I am really keen to avoid the pretty princess = good association. I never want her to feel worthy or commended because of her looks, that's something I feel quite sure about.
> 
> Obviously to me she is beauty personified, but I want her self esteem to come from how kind and bright and funny and sweet and silly she is, not from how nice she is to look at, and I find that a lot of girls clothes and toys make it hard to break away from that.

This. I have both a boy and a girl, and until Kilian came along, I dressed Lindsey very gender neutral. She did of course have a couple of dresses and pink/purple clothes, but also had blue/brown/red stuff. It is only since she has been having a 'say' in what she wears that her ENTIRE wardrobe has turned pink! :dohh: I cannot get over how much she LOVES IT, she would own pink EVERYTHING (toys, clothes, toothbrush, etc etc) if she could :lol: Def not coming from ME, I was (and am) a total tomboy :dohh: She always loved playing with cars/trains (we bought the train set for Kilian b/f he was able to play with it, so she could :blush:) and still does, but her fav toys are by far her dolls/strollers and the kitchen. 
Kilian is very much into his cars/trains but LOVES to play dolls with Lindsey and the kitchen is a HUGE hit with him as well. I have NO problem with him playing with 'girls' toys but I'd never send him out in a skirt iykwim! :rofl: 

xx


----------



## little_lady

RedRose said:


> I don't like pink or dresses so don't dress Lily that way. She is often mistaken for a boy, which I never minded until Lily started to notice and correct people. I could see that she was really confused by it so I made an effort to buy her girly colours and hairclips.
> 
> Anyway, she has totally embraced it and loves pink and dresses and so they are slowly creeping their way into our lives. :lol:
> 
> I am not at all against parents treating their kids in a gender specific way, not at all, but I am really keen to avoid the pretty princess = good association. I never want her to feel worthy or commended because of her looks, that's something I feel quite sure about.
> 
> Obviously to me she is beauty personified, but I want her self esteem to come from how kind and bright and funny and sweet and silly she is, not from how nice she is to look at, and I find that a lot of girls clothes and toys make it hard to break away from that.

Again, completely agree with the last paragraphs. I think that's why I don't like all the pink princess stuff, I would hate it if my little girl thought she had to look like a model to be accepted. I had confidence issues growing up (not due to not being a tomboy btw) and I don't want her to have the same. I want to teach her to be happy in her own skin. 

Funnily enough I remember at "book day" in primary school, my mum dressed me as worzel gummidge and all the other girls were Cinderella or similar :haha:


----------



## binxyboo

Daniel tends to have gender specific clothing (except for jeans - I just buy fairly plain jeans in case we have a girl in the future, then all I need to do is buy new tops to go with them)
Although Daniel does have some gender specific books (he likes diggers and tractors) most are fairly neutral. He does have That's Not My Fairy and That's Not My Angel.

Toys are also a complete mix. He does love cars, diggers and tractors, but he also adores his pink baby buggy and pushes his Dolly every where in it!

I tend to buy toys in nice bright colours. Even if I had a girl, I highly doubt I would be buying the pink versions of anything as I can't stand too much pink.


----------



## peanut56

I buy my daughter's clothes from the girls section in stores. Some of her outfits are girlier than others. She's not in frilly dresses everyday or anything, but she does have a fair amount of pink in her wardrobe.
I buy her all kinds of toys. Lots of dolls and doll accessories, because she loves that stuff. Also Mega Bloks, and other more gender neutral type toys.
Gender specific or not gender specific isn't something that I ever think about, or worry about. She's a girl so I treat her as such. Right now she is leaning more towards the "girly girl" side anyway. 
When she's old enough to pick out her own clothes and toys, if she wants to wear "boy" clothes and play with "boy" toys, then that's fine with me. 
I don't buy her "Princess" clothes or toys - not because I disagree with any sort of message it's sending, but just because I personally don't care for it. LOL. If she wants that stuff when she's older, I won't deprive her of it!


----------



## JWandBump

When I was a child I was very girly and I do dress my LO girly most the time. She has lots of pink and girly things but she loves it.. I buy what makes her happy, the other day she kept on about cars so I bought her a toy car :)


----------



## girlygirl:)

I dress my daughter quite girly at times, and I do buy the pink alternative to toys of there is an option but generally go for whatever she likes. For all I know she might become a tomboy by the age of 3 that hates pink and she might be my only girl, although I wouldn't mind if she was a tomboy obviously because I just want her to be happy, I want to make the most of the time that I can dress her up in pink iykwim?


----------



## RachA

Palestrina said:


> RachA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kess said:
> 
> 
> With your little ones, how much do you conform to expectations about their gender? Do you...
> 
> ...dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?
> ...buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example?
> ...buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"?
> ...buy the pink version of a standard toy for your girl?
> ...let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants?
> 
> I do dress them so that the boy looks like a boy and the girl a girl as it's always annoyed me when someone has said things like 'oh how cute is your girl' when in fact i was with my son etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> I know some people that specifically won't buy their girl things that are pink because it's 'girly' however i think that's almost a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.Click to expand...
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I guess. It does not bother me at all when a stranger mistakes my son for a girl, or asks me if it's a boy or girl. I have a hard time understanding why that would bother anyone, sometimes little girls have short hair and look like boys - so what? My son has incredibly beautiful eyes with super long eye lashes and he's extremely pretty... oh well I take it as a compliment.
> 
> How would I be cutting my nose off to spite my face because I don't like "blue is for boys and pink is for girls?" Those are rules that other people assign, not me.Click to expand...

that is true - some people are bothered by it but others aren't. I am but if someone else isn't bothered by it then i'm not going to say they should be.


What i mean is that some people will see say a really lovely top or toy that lo would really like but they won't buy it because it's pink and they don't want to buy something that is pink for their girl. To me if you like something then it shouldn't matter what the colour is.


----------



## Eleanor ace

I follow DS's lead on toys, he loves cars, books and ride on toys at the moment. He also loves pushchairs and his doll, which is considered girly (why? Do men not have children and push pushchairs? Are there no fathers in the world??) and a few other "girly" toys such as fairy dressing up stuff. Books are a mix of both- for example he has that's not my truck and that's not my fairy. He has mostly boyish clothes but a lot of gender neutral stuff too- I get asked if he's a girl or boy about once a week probably. He had some pretty girly summer clothes- a pink and purple romper, red pink and white romper, stuff like that. He liked pink so I got him pink stuff. Now he likes red and blue so that's what he gets.
If LO number 2 is a girl she will be treated the same, she can choose what she wants to play with and wear (within reason- seasonally appropriate and not likely to get me sectioned).


----------



## Natasha2605

Summer's mind is still so unassociative atm that I could dress her 'like a boy' and she wouldn't notice or care. As it is , I dress her girly because that's how I like her to look. I wouldn't allow her to dress scruffy as I think people would judge. Toys, she loves cars more than dolls atm. She loves football. I completely don't mind. I will choose the version of toy based on what colour I like best as opposed to what is a girls colour and what is for boys. I used to hate when Summer would get confused for a boy as a baby, really really infuriates me. As for books etc , she can have whatever she wishes. A lot of her books are about cars/ tractors etc. I suppose my biggest hang up is clothes. I'd never have her dressing like a stereotypical boy.


----------



## RileysMummy

Hmm half and half I guess.

Millicent wears girly clothes alot of blouses with leggings/skirts & tights, pretty dresses and cardis. But they're not all pink, hardly any of her clothes are pink.

She's more into cars and dinosaurs then dolls and teddies. For christmas we've bought some WOW car sets with the little people which are pink. 

x


----------



## Natsku

Maria has a lot of gender neutral clothes and some boy clothes but as she's gotten older I've dressed her more in girly clothes as thats what she usually wants to wear. I hate the colour pink and have always tried to avoid buying pink versions of things but unfortunately Maria loves pink so I've had to give in on that one.
She has toys for both genders. She loves cars and motorbikes and trucks and things like that so she has a lot of them but she also showed a huge interest in dolls and prams/pushchairs in the hospital playroom so I think I'm going to have to get her a doll and pram set.


----------



## leelee

I dress my children in the clothes that suit them. End of. Lol!!!

Evie suits navy blue and Max suits red so they both wear a lot of that. Having said that, they both have a mixture of colours in their wardrobe. For her first birthday had a beautiful cupcake pink dress and Max had a pink gingham shirt. Both looked gorgeous!

The same with toys. I buy them what they like or what I think they will like. Evie has some cars and Max has a pink buggy. This is what they want though, and I am happy to go along with it. For Christmas Max wants a garage and Evie is getting a doll and pram (pink). This is what they will both enjoy.

I don't spend a lot of time thinking about this. I know myself and DH are open people and our children can be who they want to be.


----------



## Jchihuahua

Daisy always looks girly. I like her to look like a bit old fashioned /1950s in the way I dress her and she mostly wears dresses, hair ribbons, T bar shoes etc so does look very girly. In her interests she plays with whatever takes her fancy, be it cars and vans or a doll's pushchair. I don't see any toys as girls or boys toys.


----------



## Meredith2010

I'm quite gender specific when it comes to clothes I suppose - DS always wears very "boy" clothes and DD has a lot of pink, girly stuff. She doesn't often wear dresses as I don't find them very practical, but you'd always be able to tell she was a girl really, based on her clothes as they do usually have some sort of pink/purple/"girlie" colours in them.

I do also buy DS typical boy toys and will be doing the same with DD. I suppose this is all before they get old enough to express an opinion - until they ask otherwise then I will be quite gender specific about it. Not because I'm trying to make any kind of statement or anything, it's just what we've always done. I love pink girlie things so I'm enjoying having a reason to buy them!

Having said all that, DS does now have a toy hoover, toy shopping trolley and toy pushchair as those are always the things he goes for first at playgroup so we bought him them as we know how much he likes them - I'd never stop him from playing with something because it might be more typically "girlie". So I suppose my stance is gender specific initially, but if they show an interest in something else then I have no problem with that.


----------



## Palestrina

RachA said:


> Palestrina said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RachA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kess said:
> 
> 
> With your little ones, how much do you conform to expectations about their gender? Do you...
> 
> ...dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?
> ...buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example?
> ...buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"?
> ...buy the pink version of a standard toy for your girl?
> ...let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants?
> 
> I do dress them so that the boy looks like a boy and the girl a girl as it's always annoyed me when someone has said things like 'oh how cute is your girl' when in fact i was with my son etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> I know some people that specifically won't buy their girl things that are pink because it's 'girly' however i think that's almost a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.Click to expand...
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I guess. It does not bother me at all when a stranger mistakes my son for a girl, or asks me if it's a boy or girl. I have a hard time understanding why that would bother anyone, sometimes little girls have short hair and look like boys - so what? My son has incredibly beautiful eyes with super long eye lashes and he's extremely pretty... oh well I take it as a compliment.
> 
> How would I be cutting my nose off to spite my face because I don't like "blue is for boys and pink is for girls?" Those are rules that other people assign, not me.Click to expand...
> 
> that is true - some people are bothered by it but others aren't. I am but if someone else isn't bothered by it then i'm not going to say they should be.
> 
> 
> What i mean is that some people will see say a really lovely top or toy that lo would really like but they won't buy it because it's pink and they don't want to buy something that is pink for their girl. To me if you like something then it shouldn't matter what the colour is.Click to expand...

It'd be nice if I could understand why people get so upset if their child mistaken as the opposite gender. There's nothing particularly manly about a boy or particularly womanly about a girl and I think nature intended it that way for some reason. 

Just today at the park another mother asked me how old is "she." and I answered "He is 17mos" and she was sooo apologetic about it, she thought she had insulted me. Not at all and she went on to tell me that people used to mistake her son for a girl all the time so she started dressing him in very obviously boy-type clothes. I pointed to my son and said "he's wearing blue sneakers, dark blue pants, a gray sweater, a green vest and a striped black/gray hat with a skull on it.... so he's wearing typical boys clothes yet you thought he was a girl" It was meant to be funny and she laughed and said "he is very pretty though lol!" which I took as a compliment as always. There's no way to butch him up any more I'm afraid and I don't think anyone is trying to insult me but calling him a pretty girl.


----------



## OmarsMum

Jchihuahua said:


> Daisy always looks girly. I like her to look like a bit old fashioned /1950s in the way I dress her and she mostly wears dresses, hair ribbons, T bar shoes etc so does look very girly. In her interests she plays with whatever takes her fancy, be it cars and vans or a doll's pushchair. I don't see any toys as girls or boys toys.

Aw, I think she looks adorable in old fashioned dresses with her lovely curls & blue eyes :cloud9: 

I love little girls in dresses xx


----------



## OmarsMum

I take it as a compliment when he's mistaken for a girl. I get comments like "he's so pretty for a boy" & so on. It doesn't irritate me.


----------



## leelee

OmarsMum said:


> Jchihuahua said:
> 
> 
> Daisy always looks girly. I like her to look like a bit old fashioned /1950s in the way I dress her and she mostly wears dresses, hair ribbons, T bar shoes etc so does look very girly. In her interests she plays with whatever takes her fancy, be it cars and vans or a doll's pushchair. I don't see any toys as girls or boys toys.
> 
> Aw, I think she looks adorable in old fashioned dresses with her lovely curls & blue eyes :cloud9:
> 
> I love little girls in dresses xxClick to expand...

Me too. She is a stunner :)

I like dresses on little girls too. Evie really suits shorts and tights which are very cute too!


----------



## Jchihuahua

Aww thanks ladies :). 

When we're out I find that old people always comment on how she's dressed. I very often get people saying things like 'Now you don't see many little girls looking like proper little girls these days'. :lol:


----------



## seoj

I dress my little girl in pink a lot- cause that's MY fav color (hehe)... I love all fun colors too... but, even dressed in head to toe pink, people still comments on what a cute boy she is all the time! LOL. I think, because she doesn't have much hair... they just assume. I don't take offense- but I do think she is very "girly" looking. I'm a bit bias though. Maybe cause she rarely wears dresses? haha- but I pretty much never do either- so I guess I buy her jeans and comfy pants and sweats cause it's what I like... which is ironic cause my parent NEVER put me in dresses (unless the occassion called for it) when I was litte- but my Mom said I hated wearing anything but dresses and would strip down and go throw on a dress the moment I was old enough ;) haha

As for toys etc... I don't really care what "gender" they are intended for... she has trucks and cars and books and dolls and stuffed animals... all sorts of colors (just bright and fun). I do tend to gravitate towards pink- if available- but, like I said, that's my fav color... but most of her toys are just all sorts of fun, bright colors.


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

I dressed ruby very gender neutral. She was often mistaken for a boy. Nowadays we pick new stuff out together really, we go for bright colours, prints, mostly tunic/ jumper dresses and leggings / tights. Warm, comfy and practical.

Weirdly i have always wanted to dress Scarlett very girly. I don't know why. She just seems to suit more girly things. She mostly wears comfy dresses and tights too. Nothing pastel or frilly though! That's not my taste.

I hate it when a toy comes in pink eg a pink garage! I would never get a pink garage even though i have 2 girls.

Ruby isn't a typically girly girl i suppose but she likes all.toys equally really, cars, trains, her kitchen, tea set etc.


----------



## Tacey

I've got a mix when it comes to clothes. Most of Alice's trousers are hand me downs from a friend's little boy. She's got a fair few tops from the boy's section too. Arthur wears lots of her old things including tops with ruched necks and slightly puffed sleeves, or with hearts on trouser pockets. 

I make an effort not to mention things to Alice in terms of boys' or girls' things. I'd rather she picks out what she likes. I've no objection to her putting on a dress though, if it's practical for whatever we're doing. I don't think I'd object if Arthur wanted to put one on either for that matter. Alice's interests tend towards the more stereotypically masculine at the moment - dinosaurs, cars, and diggers are the current favourites. Not so long ago it was dressing up as a princess and wearing a tutu with everything - I drew the line at her having it on in bed!

I avoid anything that pigeonholes, and explicitly assigns itself to one sex, so I dislike the 'boys' book of...' or whatever. I currently avoid pink glitzy stuff too, but that's a taste preference, and something I'll give in to if she or Arthur show a preference for it in future (really hope not! :sick:).

I believe that there are differences between the sexes, but it's not as black and white (or blue and pink!) as is made out, and I wouldn't want my children to feel less of a person if their interests stray from some stereotype. Also, obviously I know their sex, but I can't necessarily know the gender they will identify with. By bringing my children up without expectations that they will conform to a particular type, I hope it will foster a sense of accepting other people for what they are too.


----------



## Wellington

As a cost saving measure, all the clothes *I* have bought my 2 girls has been gender neutral- now that I have found out that number 3 (and final!) is also a girl I can have a bit more free reign!

I don't mind a bit of bright pink, but I personally loathe baby pink and would never wear it myself, so won't be seen with my lot in it.

I also hated wearing dresses and skirts as a kid - and now as an adult, so I don't gravitate to them for my kids. That said, if they wanted something that wasn't too delicate or frilly, I'd probably get it- on the basis that it could be used 3 times!!

As someone right near the beginning said, my MIL had 2 boys and is continually buying dresses for them.... The only problem is, they aren't even nice ones, so they just never get worn! If I wouldn't wear it, I wouldn't expect them to.


As far as toys we have a good range. Bikes, trains, Lego, crafty stuff, dolls, kitchen stuff etc.
I do avoid pink versions (as mentioned before, I find the colour nauseating) and avoid 'girls book of...' There are usually versions that don't pigeon hole kids into a stereotype.

Evidently I'm going to have to give in at some point and introduce a bit of pink to our house- I don't want rebellion on my hands! But it will be used as any other colour- not EVERYTHING!


----------



## rwhite

Clothes - he does wear a lot of 'boy' clothes because he has a lot of handmedowns, but I'm not overly concerned when buying for him. If I found something that I liked from the girl section that wouldn't look silly on him I would buy it if I liked it :) And I make bow hair clips and he likes to wear those lol funny wee man. So not bothered!

Admittedly yes he does have some quite 'boyish' books, but he does really like vehicles. He also has books that might be considered girly by some, one about the tooth fairy for example and it's all pinks and purples.

I don't really buy much stuff that's directed at his gender, no.

If I had a daughter I possibly would buy the pink version of a toy, but just because I myself really like pink 

I would let him wear a dress out if that's what he wanted! OH was horrified when I told him I'd allow that :lol: Who cares. Not that he has one, but I'd get him one if he wanted.

I do find that gender stereotypes can be correct but they shouldn't be rigid and I am bringing my son up with options to play with or wear whatever he pleases. I do tend to go towards some boy stuff sometimes but I feel that he suits it, and when he's older if he wants some girl stuff he can :) I know I really liked a fireengine top in the boys section when I was little and mum bought it for me - I wore it all the time! Screw people and what they think.


----------



## Phantom

I`m not very gender-specific with Quinton at all. I dress him mostly in light greens, yellows, and reds. I hate blue. He has a few boy dolls. He doesn`t have any diggers or tool kits, I buy him kitchen toys and houses. 

Other people, on the other hand, only buy him blue stuff and construction toys. I really hate it.


----------



## Septie

My 3 yo has longish blond curls, and is often mistaken for a girl. I take it as a compliment as well. We buy mostly boy clothes, but I favor bright and especially red colors without characters, which are hard to find. I have on occasion bought a girl's (but fairly gender neutral) outfit.
Toys - most of them are gender neutral books/puzzles/duplo/blocks/farm stuff, though he does like trains/cars (for the most part, I have resisted buying them, with the exception of a used Duplo train I've bought for Christmas). I wanted to buy him a doll baby prior to LO2's arrival, but OH resisted. No real girly toys...


----------



## KittyVentura

Fin dresses like a boy and Amelia like a girl. But she isn't head to toe in pink and him in blue. She wears some of his old clothes and a LOT of blue. He wears leggings and even tights under trousers in winter. 

With toys he is drawn to cars and trains mostly but also loves his teddies. He loves his brink pink dolls buggy which he has a teddy in. He loves his tea set and trolley of fruit. He wants a baby doll for Christmas. One of his Christmas presents is a pink wooden farm, because it was super cheap in the Argos sale. But otherwise I'd not go out of my way to choose airs toy for him. If he chooses one we wil get it. Amelia doesn't need mucn in the way of toys yet as we still have Fins and baby toys are unisex mostly. What she does get for Christmas will be girly though.

His favourite colours are blue, green and red. He had a red, white and blue bedroom and a car bed. Her nursery is VERY pink and girly. I got excited.

The young books are unisex. Fin opts for Thomas etc books now so we get boy sones or unisex. If Mops wants to read boys ones, fine. If she wants princess ballerina, fine.

Some days Fin wants to wear her hairbands and puts my shoes on. No problems with that. 

Basically ill let my children choose who they want to be, but generally when we choose we go for stereotypical gender stuff. If she is a Tom boy or he decides to wear dresses, well embrace and support them. But I refuse to actively single them out by my own choice and set them aside from their peers as different. It's THEIR choice to do so if THEY wish.

I'm not about to use my children in my own battle with social stereotypes. If I wanted to fight that, I would do so myself and not force it n them xx


----------



## KittyVentura

Clothes

Spoiler
Amelia, girly but not all pink.
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/mops/47dfedb4d8b9fa80845adf3f02b7c2e6.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/mops/8fc0a21ab7d6a7564d853cc4b89930b1.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/eb18d59c5cba1247038d43efd822ddff.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/ce9eeb6bad15780461ee5d0f12616f4f.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/7b26ca07fcbd6cf0e3e0a00a31115c25.jpg

Fin, boy but in leggings etc.
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/a39b6985745247541150a6262bf00f90.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/dd20e4ccc395b77a60cd8f340d232180.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/fin/97b559775e7fa5e694d3498601719140.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/639f649baf49c7b8d2e945972bb3bc8b.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/639f649baf49c7b8d2e945972bb3bc8b.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/8df191b4bb016a9739a922933f8b6942.jpg


----------



## minties

I dress my kids pretty specific for their gender, but more becsuse I LOVE boys clothes, so Thomas has lots of dinosaur/truck themed t-shirts etc. He naturally gravitates towards cars, dinosaurs and lego type things so we have a lot of that. Sophie is 9 days old, but she'll have all his 'boy' themed stuff to play with, plus more girly things. Either kid can have whatever toy styled they want. My brother and I have the same age gap and shared all our toys.


----------



## Seity

I dress him in jeans and shirts. I'd dress a girl the same way because that's how I dress. He wears a lot of red and orange because he likes those colors. I never steered him toward any particular type of toy or colors, but he's naturally been into trains, cars, etc He also loves cleaning things and has a broom and vacuum. I don't buy him dolls because he doesn't want them. He has a doll from when he was younger that he played with for a while and then lost interest in. 
I never made him the stereotype, he was born that way.
(There's nothing pink in the house though because I've always loathed that color)


----------



## Mum2b_Claire

Ooh kitty I'm loving your kids clothes! (and they're pretty cute too)


----------



## dizzyisacow

im very much like KittyVentura.

my boys wear leggings/jeggings but no pink! 
i got them dolls and a pram and a tea set and the pram and tea set are pink because apparently boys dont like girl toys?!
if/when i have a girl she will be both very girly and very tomboyish in her brothers clothes and playing with their toys.
my youngest went through a stage of liking jewelry so i let him wear chunky beaded necklaces and bracelets even pink ones and he went out like that a few times.
i allow them to do as they please and only draw a line at taking them out in a tutu and when i get them leggings i dont get girly colours!


----------



## jogami

I don't encourage gender specification at all! DS knows he is a boy but if he wants to play with dolls I don't discourage it. He is very boyish though and loves cars and rough and tumble and has very little interest in girly things at all. He has one doll with a dummy that he found at his Granny's house that his cousin left there and Granny gave it to him; and lately I talk alot about the babies in mommy's tummy and try and teach him to give his baby her dummy and soothe her when she cries. It's very cute how he sssh's the doll. I will not dress him girly though and he does not do typical girl activities (ie. dancing or ballet). He does swimming and does Little Kickers (football). HOWEVER, if he ever wanted to do ballet I would have NO problem whatsover! I don't think there is anything wrong with kids exploring outside of "gender-appropriate" games and toys so if he is around girls and they are playing kitchen or dolls and he is participating and having fun I don't see why not.


----------



## XcupcakeX

Lola is pretty much always dresses girly and has been since day one really. She's a girl and I'm girly myself so while she's too young to choose her own clothes I guess I'll dress her how I want her to look. I wouldn't buy her boys clothes if she asked in a few years time either because she is a girl! However I accept one day she might be a Tom boy and if that was the case I would let her choose her own less girly clothes! They still wouldn't be from the boys section though. 
I let her play with any toys she wants but as it happens she's very girly anyway and only ever wants to play with dolls, tea sets etc! if she wanted a toy tractor or whatever though then I'd buy her one! 
If I had a boy I'd be the same with boys clothes. If my boy asked for a dress I wouldn't let him wear one as head a boy! Pink I wouldn't have a problem with though.


----------



## KittyVentura

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Ooh kitty I'm loving your kids clothes! (and they're pretty cute too)

Thanks lover. I get far too much enjoyment from dressing them. Though if Fin sees his drawers he only wants to wear green, green and green xx


----------



## lindseymw

I do dress my boys in boys clothes. I can't say I have ever had the inclination of going to girls section. 

Toyswise, it's all typical boys stuff because thats what they like. Joshua is train, car & digger mad so that's what they get. Joshua loves playing with cars too.

If I had a girl, I would dress her in girly stuff because I love the little girls dresses. Soooo cute. She would probably wear jeans/trousers too.

I honestly don't see why being somewhat gender specific is perceived as being so bad really.


----------



## jenny82

It's funny, for our first baby (boy) it never occurred to me to be gender specific. He wore boys clothes but all really bright colours, not typical blues etc. He played with whatever he happened to like. So atm he likes Spider-Man and a singing teaset.

With the new baby (girl) though, I do make a concerted effort to not push her into typical girl items. She does wear dresses but like her brother, bright colours, not the typical boy stuff (which my mum hates so much!). I do put her in some vintage-y type clothes on the odd occasion, although rich colours, vintage fabric etc (like me atually..). Her favourite toy is a toolset. I don't like girly stuff and princess crap. If she does end up liking that stuff, well I guess there isn't much I can do heh :dohh:


----------



## Broodypants

Erin wears girls clothes, she has some pink but lots of other colours too - I buy what I like the look of, which is mostly bright colours. She does have dresses but I don't think they are very practical so she doesn't wear them that often. More so in the summer or when we go on holiday. She doesn't wear boys clothes but if she saw something in a shop in the boys section and wanted it I would let her have it.

She has a variety of toys and I am happy for her to play with whatever she wants, she loves her pram and her dolls, and carrying handbags round the house with all sorts of bits in. She doesn't show much interest in the more typically boys toys at the moment but she does have them.

My son wears boys clothes, some blue and lots of other colours too. When he grows up if he decides he wants to wear girly things then I would let him but I have to be honest, if he wanted to wear a pink dress when he was at an age where other children may start to ridicule him for it I would worry about him possibly being bullied and probably would try and encourage him not to do so. I wouldnt stop him if he was adamant though.

He will have access to whatever toys he prefers.


----------



## xemmax

Oliver is dressed as a little boy. In fact our general rule is that if his daddy would wear it, then it's ok :rofl: we are very fussy with clothes, both our own and his, so he doesn't wear things emblazoned with weird pictures or words and we avoid all logos besides the GAP bear (because it's cute!). We do like some t shirts with print but we are super fussy. We personally don't like pink for boys but he has a lot of berry, red and purple as they suit him soo well.

I don't see any toys or books as too girly and Oliver has a huge love of teddies. DF won't let me buy him anything pink and doesn't want him to have a toy buggy but I find this strange to be honest. When he is old enough to ask for toys, even if they are pink, I have no doubt DF would let him though. 

Oli can be whoever he wants to be and we'll always help him to do that and express it however he wants to. We treat him as a boy and that includes conforming to certain stereotypes, but I don't see it as a restriction on his individuality at this stage.


----------



## bumpy_j

Joel wears boy clothes - there is so much beautiful boys clothes on the market that I haven't felt that inclined to looks elsewhere. We don't really do 'character' clothing, and I love royal blues and forest greens and cranberries which is readily available for boys. If I had a girl, I'd probably mix it up a little more since I dress quite boyish anyway. 

Toys we tend to go unisex as possible, if I had a girl in the future I'd want her to be able to play with all of his toys. If you go down the wooden toy route, they're so much more adaptable to both sexes.

Books are the same, I try to get ones where the boy is the main character so he can picture himself in the story a little easier but I wouldn't have any problem getting him fairy tales or whatever sparked his interest. He hasn't really got any boyish books at all.


----------



## Palestrina

lindseymw said:


> I honestly don't see why being somewhat gender specific is perceived as being so bad really.

It's not bad. For me I feel like sometimes it's over imposed. I can see that reflected in the clothes that everyone buys for LO. Seriously, it's all blue. That's not a coincidence, that is a message given to LO that blue has to be his favorite color. If he decides it is his favorite color than I will accept and support that, but I want him to feel FREE to like other colors and that won't be possible unless I:

1. Give him the opportunity to like other colors.
2. Give him encouragement to like other colors.
3. Give him the confidence to like "girl" stuff when all his friends are telling him not to.

It's not about fighting society for me, it's about being his Mom and instilling him with confidence and opportunity. Plus I'm sick of the color blue.


----------



## little_lady

I do agree Palestrina, gender is about more than superficial colours and toys. And as a pp said you can be gender specific without just restricting them to typical "boys" things.

I've just had my inspection, I work as a childminder, and my inspector was talkng to me about the differences in boys and girls. She said from a very early age you can see there are natural differences such as physical development - it is true boys are generally slower than girls, and also communicate and play differently. I think there is reams of different evidence out there, probably going both ways, but I was interested in her experience. Gender comes down to more than colours and books, it is more deep rooted than that. It's not a lifestyle choice, I don't think.


----------



## Maggs

LO wears 'boys' clothes but not always boy colours, he has lots of purple tops and looks great in red usually. 

He has no stereotypical 'boys' books. Mostly gender neutral ones, I tend to buy books I know and love like Sandra Boynton, Robert Munsch and the Franklin/Berenstein Bears series for when he's older. 

I'd love to buy him a doll baby and I don't think DH is opposed to it, however I don't think he'd be happy for me to get him a big pink frilly stroller to go with it! LOL

In the end, as long as he's happy that's what matters to me. If he wanted a pink toy when he was older or preferred girls books, then so be it! I remember my brother, who was only a year younger than me, got a my little pony the same year for Christmas that I did.


----------



## Bartness

I dress Jaxon in very boyish clothes, though some people say he's dressed up a little to much (sweaters and sweater vests, polos, and plaid shirts). My parents only buy him camo, as my dad is big time hunter, and wants to start Jaxon hunting early on.

As for toys, he's got mostly boy toys at home, and lots of 'little people' he loves the little people. Im thinking about getting him a toy kitchen and a teaset though as he 'cooks' and serves 'tea' all day at daycare. I see no harm in it, as OH and I both cook a lot, and we both like tea. he goes to sleep with his 'babies' which are more along lines of his teddy bears. he also likes to 'sweep and mop' the floors, and the only toy brooms and mops I can find are pink..still he'd love them, might get him those for his birthday on Tuesday.


----------



## XJessicaX

Until my LO grows some hair and looks obviously female then I will continue to put her in feminine clothing. Mostly 'girly clothing' is terribly impractical but as I like her looking pretty I put her in dresses. Once she is girly regardless of the clothing then I wont care what she wears.


----------



## louandivy

I do dress Ivy in a lot of bright colours and fairly girly clothes but she has a lot of gender neutral clothes too - I couldn't care less if people think she is a boy. She admittedly has a lot of girly toys too, because she does tend to take more interest in things like play kitchens and buggies - but I wonder if she is naturally inclined to those things because I subconsciously treat her differently to how I would treat her if she was a boy? I just buy toys that she is interested in though and she does love trucks and trains and all sorts of 'boy' toys too.

And to those who say they don't see the harm in gender specification - while I agree that I don't place a huge amount of significance on the clothes she wears, I think that gender specification of toys has a huge impact on ingrained sexism within our society. Teaching children that looking after babies and playing house is for girls and brave and adventurous stuff is for boys is not a message I EVER want to send to my child. I think that our perceptions of gender roles are greatly formed at a young age and some of the toys are marketed so gender specifically, I find it a bit disturbing tbh.


----------



## louandivy

I also disagree with the notion that not being gender specific is 'forcing' your own beliefs to challenge society on your child. I'm pretty sure the whole point is to allow your child the freedom to choose to be how they want to be without being confined by traditional gender stereotypes.


----------



## chell5544

Bartness said:


> I dress Jaxon in very boyish clothes, though some people say he's dressed up a little to much (sweaters and sweater vests, polos, and plaid shirts). My parents only buy him camo, as my dad is big time hunter, and wants to start Jaxon hunting early on.
> 
> As for toys, he's got mostly boy toys at home, and lots of 'little people' he loves the little people. Im thinking about getting him a toy kitchen and a teaset though as he 'cooks' and serves 'tea' all day at daycare. I see no harm in it, as OH and I both cook a lot, and we both like tea. he goes to sleep with his 'babies' which are more along lines of his teddy bears. *he also likes to 'sweep and mop' the floors, and the only toy brooms and mops I can find are pink.*.still he'd love them, might get him those for his birthday on Tuesday.

And we wonder why a lot of our OH are lazy sods at house work when shops sell those kind of toys as 'girl' toys lol


----------



## XJessicaX

What we forget is gender stereo types are not fiction. Someone one day didn't make it all up. MOST stereotypes are based on fact! Little girls ARE different to boys! Most of it is down to who they see as role models and levels of testosterone.
At playgroup this morning, there were probably about 22 kids there from the ages of 12m-3 years. The differences in play (natural unforced non structured play) was so interesting to watch. Girls are naturally more maternal, they like to copy their mummies! They were migrating towards the push chairs, the babies, the ironing board and the doll house! Toy manufacturers are not daft, they want to make as much money as possible and so when aiming a toy at a certain gender they need to get it right! The items that were designed to appeal to girls were mostly being used by the girls!


----------



## lindseymw

louandivy said:


> I do dress Ivy in a lot of bright colours and fairly girly clothes but she has a lot of gender neutral clothes too - I couldn't care less if people think she is a boy. She admittedly has a lot of girly toys too, because she does tend to take more interest in things like play kitchens and buggies - but I wonder if she is naturally inclined to those things because I subconsciously treat her differently to how I would treat her if she was a boy? I just buy toys that she is interested in though and she does love trucks and trains and all sorts of 'boy' toys too.
> 
> And to those who say they don't see the harm in gender specification - while I agree that I don't place a huge amount of significance on the clothes she wears, *I think that gender specification of toys has a huge impact on ingrained sexism within our society. Teaching children that looking after babies and playing house is for girls and brave and adventurous stuff is for boys is not a message I EVER want to send to my child. I think that our perceptions of gender roles are greatly formed at a young age and some of the toys are marketed so gender specifically, I find it a bit disturbing tbh*.

I would say it's parents roles shape the child's perception of gender specific jobs rather than toys.

My parents both worked & both equally did the housework, cooking etc. I played with kitchens, cleaning toys etc but I never thought that they were my jobs as a girl/woman to do this. DH was brought in a 'traditional' household where his dad worked & his mam ran the house. He did at first think it was a 'woman's' job to run the house but since I worked as well, I soon told him to sod off. Now, he's better at housework than me. 

I've never bought Joshua any of 'girls' kitchens, washers etc because he's just not interested in those type of toys but he still knows that housework are a joint effort & helps me & DH so I don't think by not buying them he is going to think that's just for girls.


----------



## louandivy

I disagree - perhaps a few hundred years ago these gender stereotypes were relevant but in this day and age, in a modern and forward-thinking society, I don't think this kind of gender specification is necessary. I am more inclined to think that girls tend to lean towards girly toys because parents subconsciously treat girls and boys differently. And I know a lot of little boys who love playing with buggies, dolls and kitchens - a lot of parents probably just don't even give them the option. And as kids get older they simply want to fit in - so if some big company advertises dolls and play washing machines as 'girly' toys then of course they aren't going to admit that they want to play with it. And I hate that boys toys are always described as 'action and adventure', since when is adventure a boy's thing?


----------



## chell5544

louandivy said:


> I disagree - perhaps a few hundred years ago these gender stereotypes were relevant but in this day and age, in a modern and forward-thinking society, I don't think this kind of gender specification is necessary. I am more inclined to think that girls tend to lean towards girly toys because parents subconsciously treat girls and boys differently. And I know a lot of little boys who love playing with buggies, dolls and kitchens - a lot of parents probably just don't even give them the option. And as kids get older they simply want to fit in - so if some big company advertises dolls and play washing machines as 'girly' toys then of course they aren't going to admit that they want to play with it. And I hate that boys toys are always described as 'action and adventure', since when is adventure a boy's thing?

I defferently agree with this I just don't understand why shops have to use either pink or blue why not use yellows and other neutral colours therefore certain toys won't be gender percific
Although I have started to see lots of 'boy' colour kitchens and shopping baskets around in the shops


----------



## Lilicat

It drives me nuts that everything has to have a boy version and a girl version and the girl version always has to be pink. 

With regard to my own choices I only have a boy, I tend to dress him in jeans and t-shirts. They tend to be typically boy colours/designs because I shop in the boy section for him. He did have little nightdresses when he was born because they are ultra cute and practical. 

I don't like most shades of pink but love blue so he gets a lot of blue things. He doesn't have any interest in clothes but if he did want a pink t-shirt, sparkly trainers or Disney Princess pyjamas I would be happy to get them for him. 

He seems to prefer toys that are seen as boys toys so he has more of those but he does have a doll, toy kitchen and a teaset which are probably considered girls toys. 

To me toys are toys, they shouldn't have a gender. When buying him a toy I get him what I think he will like most regardless of whether it is aimed a girls or boys. 

Same with books, we have a range of them, I have borrowed 'that isn't my fairy' and 'that isn't my doll' from the library for him along with the more boyish themed ones. It is whatever he shows an interest in. 

I must admit if something comes in a boy design and an girl design I will buy the boy one. Partly because I don't like pink and the girl one always is pink and partly because it is just an automatic choice of picking the boy one as I have a boy. 

Since he isn't verbal though he can't really express a preference. If he could talk and he told me he loved pink I would get him the pink version of everything because it would make him happy. 

I do wish stuff could be less gender specific though, with items in a mixture of colours and toys aimed at children rather than particularly girls or boys.


----------



## Dragonfly

My boys dress in boys clothes. I like boys cloths on them. Though have some pink leggings for under trousers. Its only a colour to me. They like boyish toys as they are classed but like kitchens and cleaning to. Whatever they want in toys they can have and watch on the tv. And books to, whatever they want. They have pink cutlery to. Plates bowls etc. My mum thinks its mad that they have that and shows her disbelief in how I will allow them to have a kitchen or a play house. Even the hoover and cleaning set raised question and a pink pencil.


----------



## MommyKC

I have two girls, and yes - I dress them like girls. Honestly, who can resist all the cute girly outfits? :winkwink:

That being said, when it comes to toys and things they like, I go with what THEY like. Both of my girls love dolls as much as they love playing with cars and trains. :D
They have books that are girly, and books that are not. :shrug:

When it comes to their clothes, and they start picking out what they want, I will do the same. :)
For now, I buy items of clothing that are cute and I know they'll like, and also functional. My oldest daughter has shirts with Super Mario on them because she loves him. But she also has dresses, jeans, leggings, skirts, etc. We have a pretty wide variety of what they wear.

I wouldn't say we are extremely gender-specific, but I have two girls who _both_ enjoy girly things, and they_ are_ girls. So obviously the things we buy usually lean more towards that. :flower:


----------



## kjjh

I dress my son in obvious boy clothes, he does have pink tshirts , socks etc but they are from the boys section I wouldn't buy him clothes from the girls section. He has a great range of books all I would say are unisex, he has books about diggers but also peppa pig books, but I don't think I would go out and buy obvious Girly books about princess's etc he is a typical boy an they just wouldnt intrest him. Whrn I buy toys I either buy the blue version or a unisex neutral colour for him. My son is a typical boy he loves stereotypical boy things - football, bikes, cars, climbing etc so I go along with him at his pace and buy him things I know he will like or play with. X


----------



## leelee

KittyVentura said:


> Fin dresses like a boy and Amelia like a girl. But she isn't head to toe in pink and him in blue. She wears some of his old clothes and a LOT of blue. He wears leggings and even tights under trousers in winter.
> 
> With toys he is drawn to cars and trains mostly but also loves his teddies. He loves his brink pink dolls buggy which he has a teddy in. He loves his tea set and trolley of fruit. He wants a baby doll for Christmas. One of his Christmas presents is a pink wooden farm, because it was super cheap in the Argos sale. But otherwise I'd not go out of my way to choose airs toy for him. If he chooses one we wil get it. Amelia doesn't need mucn in the way of toys yet as we still have Fins and baby toys are unisex mostly. What she does get for Christmas will be girly though.
> 
> His favourite colours are blue, green and red. He had a red, white and blue bedroom and a car bed. Her nursery is VERY pink and girly. I got excited.
> 
> The young books are unisex. Fin opts for Thomas etc books now so we get boy sones or unisex. If Mops wants to read boys ones, fine. If she wants princess ballerina, fine.
> 
> Some days Fin wants to wear her hairbands and puts my shoes on. No problems with that.
> 
> Basically ill let my children choose who they want to be, but generally when we choose we go for stereotypical gender stuff. If she is a Tom boy or he decides to wear dresses, well embrace and support them. But I refuse to actively single them out by my own choice and set them aside from their peers as different. It's THEIR choice to do so if THEY wish.
> 
> I'm not about to use my children in my own battle with social stereotypes. If I wanted to fight that, I would do so myself and not force it n them xx

Excellent post. That's what I was trying to say when I posted. But you word it better!!!

Max has long hair and is often mistaken for a girl. It is long because it suits him! He has also worn some of Evie's clips and hairbands. I have no problem at all with this :)


----------



## karlilay

I haven't really pushed gender stereotypes on either of my kids...Madi has always worn a lot of Navy blue & reds. Now i LOVE to dress her in black & grey. She has other ideas though, every day this week she has gone to her wardrobe and a PINK something on, today it was a glittery pink swimming costume lol, yesterday a summer dress.

She will pick out the pink, purple, glittery every time. 
She has never shown an interest in cars, diggers, footballs etc, but we have brought her stuff like that anyway so she had the choice. I brought her a ride on Tractor last year for Christmas, she's never been on it I don't think. 

Zach is your typical, rough and tumble boy. I dress him like a boy, because I love being able to buy different things to what I have been for the past few years.
He also has a lot of navy blues, but I love him in bright colours, orange and yellow go so beautifully on his skin.
He is just getting to such a lovely age, and is quite into feeding Madis dolls and teddys ATM, he likes the kitchen we brought, and loves to push her pram and pushchair around.
If we didn't have these things already, I wouldn't have a problem going out and buying them if he showed up an interest in them.


----------



## Seity

There was some mention of perceived roles and my boy is 'all boy' and has been right from the start even with the role model of me being the parent who works full time and my husband being the SAHD, who does all the cooking and cleaning. Stereotypes are there because a large portion of the gender will naturally be that way.
I think forcing a gender neutral approach when your child clearly has a preference is just as bad as not allowing your child to have something just because it's for the 'opposite' gender.
Just let them be themselves.


----------



## MommyKC

^ Agreed! :thumbup:


----------



## Seity

chell5544 said:


> Bartness said:
> 
> 
> I dress Jaxon in very boyish clothes, though some people say he's dressed up a little to much (sweaters and sweater vests, polos, and plaid shirts). My parents only buy him camo, as my dad is big time hunter, and wants to start Jaxon hunting early on.
> 
> As for toys, he's got mostly boy toys at home, and lots of 'little people' he loves the little people. Im thinking about getting him a toy kitchen and a teaset though as he 'cooks' and serves 'tea' all day at daycare. I see no harm in it, as OH and I both cook a lot, and we both like tea. he goes to sleep with his 'babies' which are more along lines of his teddy bears. *he also likes to 'sweep and mop' the floors, and the only toy brooms and mops I can find are pink.*.still he'd love them, might get him those for his birthday on Tuesday.
> 
> And we wonder why a lot of our OH are lazy sods at house work when shops sell those kind of toys as 'girl' toys lolClick to expand...

https://www.amazon.com/Schylling-Li...UTF8&qid=1353102400&sr=8-1&keywords=toy+broom 
My son has that set and loves it and it's not pink! Amazon has a lot of toy mops, vacuums and the like that aren't pink.
https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21igTyndo2L.jpg


----------



## leelee

Seity said:


> There was some mention of perceived roles and my boy is 'all boy' and has been right from the start even with the role model of me being the parent who works full time and my husband being the SAHD, who does all the cooking and cleaning. Stereotypes are there because a large portion of the gender will naturally be that way.
> I think forcing a gender neutral approach when your child clearly has a preference is just as bad as not allowing your child to have something just because it's for the 'opposite' gender.
> Just let them be themselves.

100% agree with you Seity :)

Max has this mop set and it isn't pink and girly!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Theo-Klein...1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353102647&sr=8-1-fkmr0


----------



## Bartness

https://www.amazon.com/Schylling-Li...UTF8&qid=1353102400&sr=8-1&keywords=toy+broom 
My son has that set and loves it and it's not pink! Amazon has a lot of toy mops, vacuums and the like that aren't pink.
https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21igTyndo2L.jpg[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link, I might end up ordering that!


----------



## mum2b2009

I must admit i do say thats for a little girl if my son picks up something pink or girly. The only girly thing he has really is a purple/pink drinking bottle.


----------



## RachA

I have to say that it does annoy me to see the toys that they do in pink or blue etc. It's almost as if the manufacturers are saying that a girl will only play with a garage if its pink. I think that is just stupid - if your child is interested in a garage they will play with it regardless of the colour.

As Seity said - children should be allowed to find themselves. I don't like the fact that people say that i pushed my boy into liking boyish things when anything was open to him. He just happened to choose cars, lego, spiderman, trains etc. He never once expressed a desire for a dolly - until i had Esther and she was given a doll and pushchair. All toys in our house are available for use by both of the children but i would say that 9 times out of 10 they gravitate to 'gender specific' items. I have always encouraged both of them to help with the housework etc. And in the same way they both see me do quite a bit of the diy in the house so they don't see that as purely a male thing. Maybe they do see the fact that OH goes out to work, does all the heavy work in the house, see me do the washing, cleaning etc but that is just how we as a family work as i don't go out to work and we can't change that.


----------



## Palestrina

We have centuries of sexist against us. Gender roles have been clearly defined for ages.... and not in a positive manner. My son loves the broom, he loves his teddys and he wears a skull and crossbones hat. He will have everything available to him and if he chooses to play with pink stuff I will support him... it doesn't seem like anyone else will. 

And let's remember, there are good reasons not to push girls into sexist gender pitfalls. Top 10 most sexist ads from the 1950's
https://www.businesspundit.com/10-most-sexist-print-ads-from-the-1950s/


----------



## xprincessx

I dress him in boys clothes but when it comes to toys and stuff I dont care, if he wants a doll he will have one. If he wants to dress up as a game I will let him x


----------



## xprincessx

Oh but I must say I wouldnt buy him say a pink innotab when there is a blue one available just because. i dont know why but it wouldnt even cross my mind


----------



## Palestrina

xprincessx said:


> Oh but I must say I wouldnt buy him say a pink innotab when there is a blue one available just because.* i dont know why but it wouldnt even cross my mind*

Centuries of being programmed to do so, that's why.


----------



## fluffpuffin

I'm not really trying to be gender specific in the toys I buy Isla. I tend to get her things that she asks for, which is pretty much anything pink and sparkly and related to princesses. But she also loves her car park and plays with it loads. I wouldn't stop her to play with anything she enjoys even if it's aimed at boys. She wears girls clothes but not especially girly in the sense of wearing dresses and skirts all the time - it's mainly what looks nice and comfy...unfortunately a lot of it is pink, as it's her favourite colour. I wouldn't necessarily go for a lot of pink myself.


----------



## XfairyhopesX

Not with toys no, aiden has dolls, teddys, plays shop etc doesnt bother me. But i do dress him like a boy.. because he is a boy.


----------



## aliss

Mine is 100% stereotypical boy. He has access to all the girl's stuff with his cousins but doesn't care for them at all. Obsessed with trains and trucks. The only typical "girly" thing is that he loves stroller wheels but I'm not sure that's the baby/stroller but rather the wheels themselves....? His choice.


----------



## xemmax

Palestrina said:


> xprincessx said:
> 
> 
> Oh but I must say I wouldnt buy him say a pink innotab when there is a blue one available just because.* i dont know why but it wouldnt even cross my mind*
> 
> Centuries of being programmed to do so, that's why.Click to expand...

Doubt it, pink only began to be associated with girls mid 20th century. Prior to that it was mainly white clothes for both and early century it was blue for girls and pink for boys.


----------



## OmarsMum

xprincessx said:


> Oh but I must say I wouldnt buy him say a pink innotab when there is a blue one available just because. i dont know why but it wouldnt even cross my mind

Omar's leap pad is the boys one, but his portable DVD is pink. It was much cheaper than the blue one as the pink one was on offer. Both were exactly the same, but I went for the cheaper one & the colour didn't bother me. I also bought the bright pink trampoline as it was on offer. 

When I buy expensive toys I look for bargains regardless of the colour.


----------



## shelx

I do all of the above apart from the dressing. I let him wear pink clothes (for boys obviously) like polo tops etc.


----------



## MikaylasMummy

I definatley dress them gender specific.but at the same time my girl looks amazing in pink where as my son really suits blues and greens.blue washes my girl out a bit.but I would never put my boy in a dress.i try,however,to sometimes get dd out I a dress and into some shorts.
With toys I don't care at all.if dd wanted a truck I'd get her one.she loved toy story when she was younger and she got some of the toys,people told me woody was a boys toy.i thought that was weird!!i don't really agree with girls/boys toys.if ds wanted to play with dolls he can,I wouldn't buy any cos dd has so many.i guess I do buy Thomas for ds and babie for dd but because I have one of each they can share toys between gender specifics.


----------



## KittyVentura

Palestrina said:


> We have centuries of sexist against us. Gender roles have been clearly defined for ages.... and not in a positive manner. My son loves the broom, he loves his teddys and he wears a skull and crossbones hat. He will have everything available to him and if he chooses to play with pink stuff I will support him... it doesn't seem like anyone else will.
> 
> And let's remember, there are good reasons not to push girls into sexist gender pitfalls. Top 10 most sexist ads from the 1950's
> https://www.businesspundit.com/10-most-sexist-print-ads-from-the-1950s/

I'm not going to lie. I find most of those ad prints extremely amusing and not even a little offensive. There are many things that used to be done, used to be viewed as ok, that we no longer do (for the most part). Heck women would be blamed and at fault for not providing a son, when we all now know the science behind it. I'd not be offended by an add that made claims to that, perhaps amused at it and glad that times have changed. I'd just see it as a part of history. 

I'd bend over to be spanked if I did burn the beer :haha:


----------



## Siyren

Lyss mainly wears dresses and tights/ summer dresses, because she prefers them. they're rarely pink, and if they are they're a deep pink, because i hate baby pink, and she's so fair it washes her out anyway.
like today she wore a red and navy check dress from next, with navy tights. 

name wise, i did want her to have an obviously feminine name, because ive spent my life being put on the boys list on the register at school etc (god knows why!)

toys wise she has pretty much everything available to her, she loves her dolls, and she loves things to do with space, and pirates.
i have a book buying problem and we have tonnes of those, that cover pretty much everything. 
and i have bought her clothes from the boys section (who says charley bear should only be for boys?)

she will be who she wants to be and i'll support her no matter what x


----------



## OmarsMum

Siyren said:


> Lyss mainly wears dresses and tights/ summer dresses, because she prefers them. they're rarely pink, and if they are they're a deep pink, because i hate baby pink, and she's so fair it washes her out anyway.
> like today she wore a red and navy check dress from next, with navy tights.
> 
> name wise, i did want her to have an obviously feminine name, *because ive spent my life being put on the boys list on the register at school etc (god knows why!)*
> 
> toys wise she has pretty much everything available to her, she loves her dolls, and she loves things to do with space, and pirates.
> i have a book buying problem and we have tonnes of those, that cover pretty much everything.
> and i have bought her clothes from the boys section (who says charley bear should only be for boys?)
> 
> she will be who she wants to be and i'll support her no matter what x

Same here :haha: this is why I go with the feminine version of my name. I have two male cousins who share my name :dohh:


----------



## moomoo

We dress ours in gender specific clothes, Reggie is cargos, hoodies and converse. Flo is dresses, tights and leggings etc

With toys we buy quite gender neutral things, also having one of each close in age means they will play and have an interest in each others toys anyway :)


----------



## LaughOutLoud

I always dressed my girl in trousers/shorts because I find these comfier myself to wear AND with a baby/toddler its more practicle. I also just LOVE trousers so you can see im not very feminine in that sense and although I did dress up for weekends, since having LO that went out the window. I also avoided pink and would go for all things unisex. In fact I actually like blue and prefer blue. HOWEVER, my 3yr old started telling me exactly what she wanted when she was 2. She was also very interested in 'pretty girly' things which she might see other people wearing (not myself). She has told me her favourite colour is pink and too right when ever she has to choose a colour its always pink! She also LOVES to dress up and accessories with her hair clips, small jewellery. If I dress her in trousers she tells me she wants to wear her skirts or 'princess dresses' as she much rather be wearing dresses all the time. How this happened? all I can say is this is just my LO's style or taste. I still dress her in shorts/trousers for nursery as can not understand how she would be able to play with a skirt in her way?! On her birthday she had a beautiful massive tutu dress and she happily kept it on all the while she was jumping on her bouncy castle :)


----------



## lozzy21

I buy Niamh what she likes regardless of what gender its advertised for. Her main birthday present was a garage with some cars. She gets dressed in girls clothes but does have a few boys tshirts cos Daddy likes h&m's character tshirts. She looks fantastic in blue, it makes her blue eyes pop but i will only put her in blue dresses, she still has not got much hair so is allways getting confused for a boy.


----------



## leelee

Palestrina said:


> xprincessx said:
> 
> 
> Oh but I must say I wouldnt buy him say a pink innotab when there is a blue one available just because.* i dont know why but it wouldnt even cross my mind*
> 
> Centuries of being programmed to do so, that's why.Click to expand...

Maybe, but I would still buy Evie a toy in pink if it were available. If blue is her favourite colour then I will buy blue. Until she can vocalise this I will probably buy the female colour for a toy.


----------



## BethK

I buy my LO boys toys etc, I've also bought her boys clothes. But I do buy her girls clothes and girls toys.

Sometimes I go for pink versions, only cos she loves pink and I don't wwant all her stuff to be red, blue or green.

I don't feel the need to buy certain things or colours just to make a statement, I just get what she would like. She's a very girly girl and will herself be drawn to more feminine things and colours, there's nothing wrong with that


----------



## londonangel

Before we had Eleanor we were both very much 'she can play with whatever she wants'. We still have that attitude. However, we find ourselves buying her more obviously 'girly' items like dollies because of one simple fact that is ringing true in our household - she loves dollies! She also appears to love pink! We are not quite sure how this has happened as we haven't particularly encouraged her to prefer one thing over another. We don't buy her pink versions of toys and even some of her clothes are from the boy section (including a lovely cardigan that she has outgrown and will soon be worn by her baby cousin who is a boy). So.... for Christmas she is getting a doll's pram because we think she will love it. She does also like Duplo and I think once she gets a bit better at putting it together (pulling it apart is easier for her, haha) she will enjoy constructing things. She likes building towers and keeps shouting 'tower tower'. You never know, by the time she is two maybe we'll be able to buy her a toy tool bench or something ;-) She turned 17 months yesterday by the way.


----------



## Dragonfly

Quick question, not connected with any one here as I havnt seen any one say it here. 
But elsewhere when this question pops up and mums say they dress their boys as boys its met with the gender bias label? I know woman who put their boys in dresses , pink frills, flowers and all that but when I say I wont do that I am called gender bias? why? They can dress their kid how they wish and of the opposite gender and not be called bias I do the same not sure that makes me bias or does it?


----------



## lovelylaura

I'm not too fussed really but I think it's because I have girls so it's not seen to be odd to put them in trousers or dark/boyish colours if we're the other way round no I wouldn't put a boy in dresses I can't explain why I just wouldnt. I almost brought some boys shoes for poppy the other day but oh wasn't sure with toys I don't care she has cars and 'boyish'toys her smart trike is more boyish than girly but then again I would say poppy is very rough so typical girly stuff doesn't really fit her peronality.I wouldn't look twice at a bit in a dress tjo because that's one thing as a mum I have learnt that unless your in there shoes what does it really matter x


----------



## chell5544

For me I dress my kids in what's practical for that days weather/activity DD1 has lots of tracksuits for the park/woods and yet I know people who won't put their girl in a tracksuit unless its pink/purple whereas dd1 tracksuits are black/dark blue as they don't stain lol 
I think as long as you allow your kids to be who they want to be then that's fine for me a wouldn't batter an eyelid if I saw a boy in a dress but just because you don't buy a boy a dress I wouldn't say your gender bias 
I think it's more the approach like don't play with that its a girl toy/boys toy although I do think it is more acceptable for a girl to dress like a "Tom boy" or play with "boys" toys then it is for a boy to play/dress with what's classed as "girl" things


----------



## eddjanuary10

Ihsan wears all sorts of colours, his favourite colour is red so we have a lot of red in his wardrobe at the moment. If pink was his fave colour I wouldn't mind buying him things with pink in it, but I wouldn't put him in dresses or skirts! His room is just a mix of bright colours atm, he will probably choose a dinosaur themed room or something when we decorate it and that's fine.

We buy what he shows interest in when it comes to toys & he goes for dinosaurs & castles with knights and dragons. He loves Mike the Knight! He also has a play kitchen, shopping trolley, trampoline, building blocks, a bike etc so not really gender specific. I usually let him chose the colour of a toy when there's a choice, he normally chooses red!

He wanted red nail polish on the other day, but I didn't give him any. Instead I put little stickers on his nails, I know DH would be uncomfortable with him wearing polish & it's not good for his nails anyway! 

:)


----------



## smokey

leelee said:


> Palestrina said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xprincessx said:
> 
> 
> Oh but I must say I wouldnt buy him say a pink innotab when there is a blue one available just because.* i dont know why but it wouldnt even cross my mind*
> 
> Centuries of being programmed to do so, that's why.Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe, but I would still buy Evie a toy in pink if it were available. If blue is her favourite colour then I will buy blue. Until she can vocalise this I will probably buy the female colour for a toy.Click to expand...

I bought LO one of those tab reader things last christmas but the shop only had pink in store, I bought him the pink because I thought what does he care what colour it is as long as it works the same.

something I have noticed though in alot of cases there does actualy seem to be a price differance between colours with alot of toys, wonder why.


----------



## emyandpotato

I dress my little boy exactly as I would dress a little girl, the one exception being that I avoid dresses and skirts. He wears girls clothes, not huge flowers and frills because that isn't my style anyway, but clothes that people have said are obviously for girls. I shop in the girl's section. The reason I steer clear of dresses is that I don't want awkward questions, plus my OH would go mental; he is already unhappy with how I dress Rory. When he is old enough to decide for himself I will obviously have no problem if he chooses dresses. In fact I'd be more upset if he chose standard boys clothes that I thought were ugly. 

Toy wise I am completely unbiased, the same with decorating his room, and the way I treat him. I can't imagine treating a child differently or expecting different things from them due to gender?!


----------



## Tacey

I'm a little confused on this point. I know people talk about being 'all boy' or 'all girl,' but then include colour preferences in that. I think there is some biological evidence for boys in the main tending more towards rough and tumble, active things, and girls preferring more nurturing tasks, but I don't see how biology could possibly play a role in the choice of colours children go for. Alice has already decided pink is for girls, and blue is for boys, and believe me, that's not come from me. She's picked it up from the environment we're in, which is why I find it so important to send the message to her that no colour is off limits, and neither are toys, clothes, qualifications, jobs, hobbies, life partners or friends.


----------



## steff

I am gender specific. As soon as my babies were born, the girl has worn frilly stuff, pink and lavender and little dresses with ribbons and clips on her hair. Now that she is 8, she still likes wearing dresses and skirts, but when we are traveling or she has to go to a colder place, I let her wear jeans. I still fix her hair for school and she loves it when her hair has cute clips and ties. She usually picks the cutesy tops and clothes when we go shopping and wears nallet flats. She has always loved playing with dolls and girly toys when she was younger. Once she wanted to buy a matchbox like her big brother and she chose hot pink.  My 2 year old also wears real boyish clothes. He loves Action figures, trains and cars and basketball. He loves books with dinosaurs and trucks. His favorite tees now are those with action heroes, guitars and trucks.


----------



## smokey

Strangely though untill about 60 years ago pink was more for boys and blue was for girls, about 80 years ago you wouldnt have found girls clothes in pink they where mostly all blue.
Pink was for boys because red was a very masculine colour and pink was just a younger version of pink and blue was for girls because it was a dainty femanin colour mostly made popular as a girls colour because of the virgin mary.


----------



## fannyadams

I dressed my boy as a boy and I dress my girl as a girl. 
If that makes me 'gender bias' so be it but personally I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What's wrong with embracing who you are? Until my children can choose for themselves I'll dress them as the gender they were born.


----------



## HellBunny

Clothes- i dress them both in boys clothes, i wouldn't dream of buying a dress for them (note, i say buying a dress, i don't mean not letting them dress up in a fairy costume for some fun before i get jumped on even more) :)

Toys - all sorts them have/play with, they have a pink singing teapot, a picnic basket, garages/cars/trains/baby dolls etc!

Other things, i don't tend to go for pink things, but if they wanted a pink teaset then i'd let them, i just wouldn't purposely choose to dress them in skirts etc. If they choose to when they are older then i'd support them, but as i have two boys i will make the most of dressing them as boys ;)


----------



## louandivy

fannyadams said:


> I dressed my boy as a boy and I dress my girl as a girl.
> If that makes me 'gender bias' so be it but personally I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What's wrong with embracing who you are? Until my children can choose for themselves I'll dress them as the gender they were born.

I think you are missing the point entirely - which is that gender stereotypes are forced and unnecessary. I don't even feel particularly strongly on this subject but why do people think that trying to be more gender neutral means forcing your child to act like a girl when they are a boy or vice versa? The point is giving them the freedom to choose without the constraints of stereotyping, which, unless I am mistaken, is certainly encouraging children to embrace who they are.


----------



## fannyadams

I was addressing the 'gender bias' comment. 
I may well be missing the point but personally I don't see why it should be controversial to dress your child in clothes stereotypical for that gender.
It shouldn't be an issue either way.


----------



## bumpy_j

it's normally more controversial to dress outside of that boundary - and I think a lot of people on this thread are questioning that


----------



## leelee

emyandpotato said:


> I dress my little boy exactly as I would dress a little girl, the one exception being that I avoid dresses and skirts. He wears girls clothes, not huge flowers and frills because that isn't my style anyway, but clothes that people have said are obviously for girls. I shop in the girl's section. The reason I steer clear of dresses is that I don't want awkward questions, plus my OH would go mental; he is already unhappy with how I dress Rory. When he is old enough to decide for himself I will obviously have no problem if he chooses dresses. In fact I'd be more upset if he chose standard boys clothes that I thought were ugly.
> 
> Toy wise I am completely unbiased, the same with decorating his room, and the way I treat him. I can't imagine treating a child differently or expecting different things from them due to gender?!

Just wondering why you dress your boy in girls clothes? Because he likes them sorts of clothes himself, or because you do? I am genuinely curious?


----------



## emyandpotato

leelee said:


> emyandpotato said:
> 
> 
> I dress my little boy exactly as I would dress a little girl, the one exception being that I avoid dresses and skirts. He wears girls clothes, not huge flowers and frills because that isn't my style anyway, but clothes that people have said are obviously for girls. I shop in the girl's section. The reason I steer clear of dresses is that I don't want awkward questions, plus my OH would go mental; he is already unhappy with how I dress Rory. When he is old enough to decide for himself I will obviously have no problem if he chooses dresses. In fact I'd be more upset if he chose standard boys clothes that I thought were ugly.
> 
> Toy wise I am completely unbiased, the same with decorating his room, and the way I treat him. I can't imagine treating a child differently or expecting different things from them due to gender?!
> 
> Just wondering why you dress your boy in girls clothes? Because he likes them sorts of clothes himself, or because you do? I am genuinely curious?Click to expand...

Not only girl's clothes. I buy clothes that I like and try my best not to notice gender so that he doesn't feel there should be a distinction between the two IYKWIM? Plus if I have a girl in the future I won't need a whole new set of clothes. I like children dressed as children rather than as girls or boys. I am the same with sexuality, I would never even suggest that he will get a girlfriend or that men and women get married without telling him about each possibility.

ETA: He isn't old enough to tell me what he likes or does not like, other than that he doesn't like wearing nappies.


----------



## leelee

emyandpotato said:


> leelee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emyandpotato said:
> 
> 
> I dress my little boy exactly as I would dress a little girl, the one exception being that I avoid dresses and skirts. He wears girls clothes, not huge flowers and frills because that isn't my style anyway, but clothes that people have said are obviously for girls. I shop in the girl's section. The reason I steer clear of dresses is that I don't want awkward questions, plus my OH would go mental; he is already unhappy with how I dress Rory. When he is old enough to decide for himself I will obviously have no problem if he chooses dresses. In fact I'd be more upset if he chose standard boys clothes that I thought were ugly.
> 
> Toy wise I am completely unbiased, the same with decorating his room, and the way I treat him. I can't imagine treating a child differently or expecting different things from them due to gender?!
> 
> Just wondering why you dress your boy in girls clothes? Because he likes them sorts of clothes himself, or because you do? I am genuinely curious?Click to expand...
> 
> Not only girl's clothes. I buy clothes that I like and try my best not to notice gender so that he doesn't feel there should be a distinction between the two IYKWIM? Plus if I have a girl in the future I won't need a whole new set of clothes. I like children dressed as children rather than as girls or boys. I am the same with sexuality, I would never even suggest that he will get a girlfriend or that men and women get married without telling him about each possibility.
> 
> ETA: He isn't old enough to tell me what he likes or does not like, other than that he doesn't like wearing nappies.Click to expand...

Thanks :flower:

Lol - just saw what age he is! A bit young to be telling you alright!


----------



## Mrs Doddy

Lo will wear dresses but she also looks cool in combats , most of her clothes are pink in some form , toys wise I encourage cars and trains etc, I do try and stick with neutral colours on toys as we want another child so buying stuff that if its a boy it's not all pink !!


----------



## pinklightbulb

I am very strongly gender-specific about clothing and toys. Reason being is that for the most part, boys' and girls' biological programming and brain chemistry is different and I don't want to mess with that at a young age where I could confuse him by giving him messages that *nothing* is "for boys" or "for girls" and everything is the same, because really, it's not :shrug: 

Stereotypes are based on facts. Fact is, boys are different to girls. I embrace the fact that I have a lovely, boyish little boy who likes boy things and wouldn't have him any other way.

Boys are boys and girls are girls in most circumstances. Eamon has shown no interest in stereotypical girl things even when offered, and I have no inclination to push him towards accepting them if he doesn't want to. He is a boy's boy and quite happy like that :)


----------



## Palestrina

fannyadams said:


> I dressed my boy as a boy and I dress my girl as a girl.
> If that makes me 'gender bias' so be it but personally I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. *What's wrong with embracing who you are?* Until my children can choose for themselves I'll dress them as the gender they were born.

I do want my son to embrace who he is. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to raise him with an open mind. He's going to hear all kinds of nonsense and rules from society like "you must wear blue" or "you have to play with boy toys" and it's my job to steer him towards having an open mind in the midst of that and I might as well start now. The whole point is to let them be who they are. Some people don't let their boys play with dolls.... WHY??


----------



## Lellow

Who's business is it whether someone parents there child gender neutrally or not?

Id never heard of being gender neutral til i came across a few posts on here in the past yr or two anyway, so if it wasnt for BnB id be none the wiser, but now that i am, it still wont alter how i parent my son.

If i want to raise my son according to the sterotypical norms of his gender then I will and i wont feel guilty for it and feel as if im restricting him.

My son can play with what he wants toys wise, dolls or tractors, pink or blue...but i just absolutely will not dress him in anything other than boys clothes...cos he IS a boy and there is no two ways about it.


----------



## fannyadams

Palestrina said:


> I do want my son to embrace who he is. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to raise him with an open mind. He's going to hear all kinds of nonsense and rules from society like "you must wear blue" or "you have to play with boy toys" and it's my job to steer him towards having an open mind in the midst of that and I might as well start now. The whole point is to let them be who they are. Some people don't let their boys play with dolls.... WHY??

The ONLY thing I said was ridiculous was labelling someone 'gender bias' because they dress their child according to stereotypes. Nothing else.
I think girls should be able to wear dresses and pink. They should also be allowed to wear blue and wear jeans. 
I PERSONALLY wouldn't dress my boy in a dress but I don't care what anyone else does. A child will naturally prefer some toys to others-let them choose but I wouldn't discourage my daughter from playing with dolls just to prove a point.


----------



## moomoo

Lellow said:


> Who's business is it whether someone parents there child gender neutrally or not?
> 
> Id never heard of being gender neutral til i came across a few posts on here in the past yr or two anyway, so if it wasnt for BnB id be none the wiser, but now that i am, it still wont alter how i parent my son.
> 
> If i want to raise my son according to the sterotypical norms of his gender then I will and i wont feel guilty for it and feel as if im restricting him.
> 
> My son can play with what he wants toys wise, dolls or tractors, pink or blue...but i just absolutely will not dress him in anything other than boys clothes...cos he IS a boy and there is no two ways about it.

This^^


----------



## Palestrina

Wow, such heated responses. I think we all agree that boys and girls should be able to play with whatever toys they want and should be able to choose what they wear at some point. I don't think anyone said that they don't let their girls play with dolls "just to prove a point" or dresses their boys in pink "just to go against the norm." It can be rough for kids and all of us as parents just want what's best for our kids. 

I remember when I was a little girl about 6-7yrs old I was a tomboy. My Mom let me be who I wanted to be but I do remember other little girls saying things to me like "doesn't your mother ever buy you dresses?" in a snide way and I also remember getting beat up by boys because I wanted to play soccer with them and they wouldn't let me. 

I want to help my son be who he is, not so that he can be just like me and go against the norm, but so that he can be different than the kids who made fun of me and beat me up and not be so rigid about the gender roles like those mean kids were, kwim?


----------



## anita665

This has turned into such a debate. I hadn't even put much thought into it before I read this thread.

I let my children play with whatever they want. My youngest is a real boy and loves cars but my eldest has always had a thing for more girly toys. He doesn't play with dolls but he loves anything pink and sparkly. He often raids my make-up and tells me he's made himself beautiful (while my brand new cosmetics are all but ruined :dohh: ) and he likes my clothes and shoes.

Tbh I did feel a bit bad about this to start with. I remember my mother criticizing my stepbrothers mother for putting make up on them. Part of me said it was wrong and others would give me a hard time but another part thought it was just his innocence and he was getting so much joy out of it that it couldn't be bad.

I don't actively encourage him to play with my make-up and clothes. I don't sit there and do make-up for him but I also won't ban him from doing it... except for with certain items which I don't want ruined. In the end I want him to feel free to be himself.


----------



## amygwen

I'm gender specific, but it's because it's what he loves.

I always dressed him in blue and typical boy clothing because he is a boy. Nothing wrong with that I don't think. My niece used to always be dressed in uni-sex type clothes, now she LOVES wearing dresses and acting like a princess.

Kenny loves cars, jumping off of everything like a typical boy, playing with rocks/dirt, playing with guns, etc.. I don't force him to be like that or do those things, it's just how he is. :D But if the day comes where he wants a barbie doll or teaset, I'll happily support whatever he chooses!


----------



## RachA

Palestrina said:


> Wow, such heated responses. I think we all agree that boys and girls should be able to play with whatever toys they want and should be able to choose what they wear at some point. * I don't think anyone said that they don't let their girls play with dolls "just to prove a point" or dresses their boys in pink "just to go against the norm."* It can be rough for kids and all of us as parents just want what's best for our kids.
> 
> I remember when I was a little girl about 6-7yrs old I was a tomboy. My Mom let me be who I wanted to be but I do remember other little girls saying things to me like "doesn't your mother ever buy you dresses?" in a snide way and I also remember getting beat up by boys because I wanted to play soccer with them and they wouldn't let me.
> 
> I want to help my son be who he is, not so that he can be just like me and go against the norm, but so that he can be different than the kids who made fun of me and beat me up and not be so rigid about the gender roles like those mean kids were, kwim?

NO-one on here has said that but there a people who do this. I know people who will never ever let their girl wear pink because if they do then they are adhering to the fact that pink is for girls. I don't get this. I think all colours should be available to all children. These same people won't buy their girl a doll but always buys things like cars etc but their girl actually really likes dolls.


----------



## Baby France

Lellow said:


> Who's business is it whether someone parents there child gender neutrally or not?
> 
> Id never heard of being gender neutral til i came across a few posts on here in the past yr or two anyway, so if it wasnt for BnB id be none the wiser, but now that i am, it still wont alter how i parent my son.
> 
> If i want to raise my son according to the sterotypical norms of his gender then I will and i wont feel guilty for it and feel as if im restricting him.
> 
> My son can play with what he wants toys wise, dolls or tractors, pink or blue...but i just absolutely will not dress him in anything other than boys clothes...cos he IS a boy and there is no two ways about it.

^^this


----------



## leelee

RachA said:


> Palestrina said:
> 
> 
> Wow, such heated responses. I think we all agree that boys and girls should be able to play with whatever toys they want and should be able to choose what they wear at some point. * I don't think anyone said that they don't let their girls play with dolls "just to prove a point" or dresses their boys in pink "just to go against the norm."* It can be rough for kids and all of us as parents just want what's best for our kids.
> 
> I remember when I was a little girl about 6-7yrs old I was a tomboy. My Mom let me be who I wanted to be but I do remember other little girls saying things to me like "doesn't your mother ever buy you dresses?" in a snide way and I also remember getting beat up by boys because I wanted to play soccer with them and they wouldn't let me.
> 
> I want to help my son be who he is, not so that he can be just like me and go against the norm, but so that he can be different than the kids who made fun of me and beat me up and not be so rigid about the gender roles like those mean kids were, kwim?
> 
> NO-one on here has said that but there a people who do this. I know people who will never ever let their girl wear pink because if they do then they are adhering to the fact that pink is for girls. I don't get this. I think all colours should be available to all children. These same people won't buy their girl a doll but always buys things like cars etc but their girl actually really likes dolls.Click to expand...

Agree with this. Let them wear whatever colour clothes they want! Max's favourite colour used to be pink and now it is blue. Nothing to do with me, he had pink and blues clothes and pink and blue toys. He just prefers that colour now.

I would consider myself to be quite open but I also don't think I could dress him in obvious girls clothes, such as a dress. Although on holidays he spilled a drink over himself on a day trip. The only spare thing my friend had was a navy dress so I chucked it on him and tucked it into his shorts. We all had a chuckle about it! That was an emergency situation though!


----------



## louandivy

I'm confused as to why people are getting defensive - the op has asked for everyone's personal thoughts on being gender specific and I don't get the impression that anyone is being judgemental at all? I don't feel particularly passionate about the subject myself but can understand why others do.


----------



## Sarahkka

Tacey said:


> I've got a mix when it comes to clothes. Most of Alice's trousers are hand me downs from a friend's little boy. She's got a fair few tops from the boy's section too. Arthur wears lots of her old things including tops with ruched necks and slightly puffed sleeves, or with hearts on trouser pockets.
> 
> I make an effort not to mention things to Alice in terms of boys' or girls' things. I'd rather she picks out what she likes. I've no objection to her putting on a dress though, if it's practical for whatever we're doing. I don't think I'd object if Arthur wanted to put one on either for that matter. Alice's interests tend towards the more stereotypically masculine at the moment - dinosaurs, cars, and diggers are the current favourites. Not so long ago it was dressing up as a princess and wearing a tutu with everything - I drew the line at her having it on in bed!
> 
> I avoid anything that pigeonholes, and explicitly assigns itself to one sex, so I dislike the 'boys' book of...' or whatever. I currently avoid pink glitzy stuff too, but that's a taste preference, and something I'll give in to if she or Arthur show a preference for it in future (really hope not! :sick:).
> 
> I believe that there are differences between the sexes, but it's not as black and white (or blue and pink!) as is made out, and I wouldn't want my children to feel less of a person if their interests stray from some stereotype. Also, obviously I know their sex, but I can't necessarily know the gender they will identify with. By bringing my children up without expectations that they will conform to a particular type, I hope it will foster a sense of accepting other people for what they are too.

Well said! I feel the same. 
My boys are pretty digger crazy, but not from any suggestion from me or my husband! We are actually still scratching our heads over where the machinery obsession appeared from! :) 
I try to dress my boys in bright colourful clothes. I have not actively bought them something pink and sparkly (because that wouldn't be my taste for a girl, either), but I would not say no if they asked. And god help the adult who tried to make my boys feel that their choice of clothes/toys/whatever is "girly". I REALLY disagree with pushing that kind of crap on small children and I will make no bones about defending my sons from any such attitudes. That being said, my boys fall into the gender stereotype naturally and I have never had occasion to defend them.


----------



## leelee

Sarahkka said:


> Tacey said:
> 
> 
> I've got a mix when it comes to clothes. Most of Alice's trousers are hand me downs from a friend's little boy. She's got a fair few tops from the boy's section too. Arthur wears lots of her old things including tops with ruched necks and slightly puffed sleeves, or with hearts on trouser pockets.
> 
> I make an effort not to mention things to Alice in terms of boys' or girls' things. I'd rather she picks out what she likes. I've no objection to her putting on a dress though, if it's practical for whatever we're doing. I don't think I'd object if Arthur wanted to put one on either for that matter. Alice's interests tend towards the more stereotypically masculine at the moment - dinosaurs, cars, and diggers are the current favourites. Not so long ago it was dressing up as a princess and wearing a tutu with everything - I drew the line at her having it on in bed!
> 
> I avoid anything that pigeonholes, and explicitly assigns itself to one sex, so I dislike the 'boys' book of...' or whatever. I currently avoid pink glitzy stuff too, but that's a taste preference, and something I'll give in to if she or Arthur show a preference for it in future (really hope not! :sick:).
> 
> I believe that there are differences between the sexes, but it's not as black and white (or blue and pink!) as is made out, and I wouldn't want my children to feel less of a person if their interests stray from some stereotype. Also, obviously I know their sex, but I can't necessarily know the gender they will identify with. By bringing my children up without expectations that they will conform to a particular type, I hope it will foster a sense of accepting other people for what they are too.
> 
> Well said! I feel the same.
> My boys are pretty digger crazy, but not from any suggestion from me or my husband! We are actually still scratching our heads over where the machinery obsession appeared from! :)
> I try to dress my boys in bright colourful clothes. I have not actively bought them something pink and sparkly (because that wouldn't be my taste for a girl, either), but I would not say no if they asked. And god help the adult who tried to make my boys feel that their choice of clothes/toys/whatever is "girly". I REALLY disagree with pushing that kind of crap on small children and I will make no bones about defending my sons from any such attitudes. That being said, my boys fall into the gender stereotype naturally and I have never had occasion to defend them.Click to expand...

I have to be honest and admit that when I brought my son shopping a few months ago he wanted pink pyjamas. I steered him towards the boys section and said the pink ones were for his cousin. I don't feel one bit bad about it. It didn't feel right to me buying such a girlie pair of pyjamas for a little boy.


----------



## Lina

Gender is part of our identity and massively affects how we are perceived, both positively and negatively. So dressing a little boy as a girl or vice versa will only open them up for ridicule. Society is unfortunately not as accommodating, unless the perception of roles change. Gender inequalities are rooted as much in social structures as attitudes and it is the latter that needs to be changed. Clothing worn or toys played with then become negligible.


----------



## Gingerspice

Lina said:


> Our gender is part of our identity and massively affects how we are perceived, both positively and negatively. So dressing a little boy as a girl or vice versa will only open them up for ridicule. Society is unfortunately not as accommodating, unless the perception of roles change. Gender inequalities are rooted as much in social structures as attitudes and it is the latter that needs to be changed. Clothing worn or toys played with then become negligible.

My thinking is tha pretty much everybody on here is in agreement that they want to support their child in whatever they choose and that societies outlook is wrong and out dated but it isn't going to change if it is still being instilled by us to our children? By people being more open and recognising that allowing a boy to wear a pink dress and be a princess when dressing up for 30 minutes as well as a spaceman next, or cooking dinner and hoovering, or a girl choosing to play with cars over a doll etc - then they won't change the societies idea because they've just had it reflecting on them as we have and then supported by us. If they grow up not even batting an eyelid that SHE wants to be a plumber and HE a hairdresser then societies whole standing would change so this whole idea of conforming or not conforming to societies trend wouldn't even be an issue. 

It wasn't that long ago that society viewed pink for boys and blue for girls - the virgin mary is always in blue because it was always a girls colour before. So in a fairly short space of time society views were changed to those we are discussing now, and when our grandchildren or great grandchildren are a live they will most likely have different social pressures to contend with because some chose to try to bend them now.


----------



## LittleBoo

For C I buy what I like and what's cheap, he wears clothes given to us by friends/family, and anything we kept of J's. I buy bright things, he has 4 pairs of pants, 3 of which have flowers all over, the others plain. He has a ton of tops from the boys section, and a ton from the girls. 

J picks his own clothes unless family/friends buys him an outfit as a present, I have very little say other than for example if he decided on heels it'd be a flat out no, horrid for a growing child to be wearing. As long as he's safe and comfortable I have no issue, and step back, we never argue over the small stuff like clothes etc. 

As C grows, he'll be picking his own outfits and if we ever have a daughter, she'll be just as free to venture into the other gender's clothing aisle. 

J's got a few dresses/tunics, and both of them are getting tights in a few days for warmth (letting them pick their own colours/prints, as long as they're warm). Both have leggings, they wear them under jeans in the winter and with t-shirts in the summer. 

Here's a few typical outfits;
















Sorry, picture overload and a half, but yes, that's their usual attire, very bright.


----------



## leelee

LittleBoo said:


> For C I buy what I like and what's cheap, he wears clothes given to us by friends/family, and anything we kept of J's. I buy bright things, he has 4 pairs of pants, 3 of which have flowers all over, the others plain. He has a ton of tops from the boys section, and a ton from the girls.
> 
> J picks his own clothes unless family/friends buys him an outfit as a present, I have very little say other than for example if he decided on heels it'd be a flat out no, horrid for a growing child to be wearing. As long as he's safe and comfortable I have no issue, and step back, we never argue over the small stuff like clothes etc.
> 
> As C grows, he'll be picking his own outfits and if we ever have a daughter, she'll be just as free to venture into the other gender's clothing aisle.
> 
> J's got a few dresses/tunics, and both of them are getting tights in a few days for warmth (letting them pick their own colours/prints, as long as they're warm). Both have leggings, they wear them under jeans in the winter and with t-shirts in the summer.
> 
> Here's a few typical outfits;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, picture overload and a half, but yes, that's their usual attire, very bright.

You have 2 beautiful boys! Some of their outfits look similar to how Max dresses. He wears very bright clothes as well as blues and greys. Whatever I think suits him really :)


----------



## nicb26

At the moment I am very gender specific as she can't choose herself at this age, and I love all things girly! However if she was to ask for a boys toy I wouldn't have a problem getting it for her. As for clothes, I would let her wear boyish clothes but I would try and convince her towards the pretty girly ones. But mainly because I love them and want her to look cute, if I'm totally honest x


----------



## Palestrina

RachA said:


> Palestrina said:
> 
> 
> Wow, such heated responses. I think we all agree that boys and girls should be able to play with whatever toys they want and should be able to choose what they wear at some point. * I don't think anyone said that they don't let their girls play with dolls "just to prove a point" or dresses their boys in pink "just to go against the norm."* It can be rough for kids and all of us as parents just want what's best for our kids.
> 
> I remember when I was a little girl about 6-7yrs old I was a tomboy. My Mom let me be who I wanted to be but I do remember other little girls saying things to me like "doesn't your mother ever buy you dresses?" in a snide way and I also remember getting beat up by boys because I wanted to play soccer with them and they wouldn't let me.
> 
> I want to help my son be who he is, not so that he can be just like me and go against the norm, but so that he can be different than the kids who made fun of me and beat me up and not be so rigid about the gender roles like those mean kids were, kwim?
> 
> NO-one on here has said that but there a people who do this. *I know people who will never ever let their girl wear pink because if they do then they are adhering to the fact that pink is for girls.* I don't get this. I think all colours should be available to all children. *These same people won't buy their girl a doll but always buys things like cars etc but their girl actually really likes dolls*.Click to expand...

Some people take gender bias more seriously than others. I don't think it's wrong not to buy a little girl a doll or to omit pink from their wardrobe. I am not ashamed to say that my boy will never own a toy gun, sword, military or other violence themed toys and I don't care how much he wants them or how many of his friends have them. It just goes against my beliefs to interact with such items. Our children are our legacy and they only thing we can really give them is our values. When they get older we have to respect their choices but when they are young they're our responsibility and I wouldn't feel like a responsible parent if I inadvertently steered my son in a direction that made him feel more important than girls or made his emotions less important than his girl counterpart. There are norms that we can challenge if we want to.


----------



## freckleonear

https://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/12663_442647549104997_336645343_n.jpg

I think you can get it wrong at either extreme. Obviously not allowing a boy/girl to wear pink/blue or play with dolls/cars is wrong, but so is forcing them to take on opposite gender attributes. I'd imagine very few people fall into the latter category, but unfortunately there are still plenty of parents (particularly dads) who fall into the first. However, most of us fall somewhere in the middle, offering a wide range of choices whilst also respecting our children's likes and interests.

It's true that there are neurological differences between girls and boys. But stereotypes are based more in cultural history, repression of women and sexism (towards both genders). Obviously colours have absolutely nothing to do with biological differences between genders, so that's one stereotype that has no basis in fact!

It's not the actual colours/toys that are a problem, it's the gender associations attached to them. Having had a boy and a girl, I would agree that my son was definitely fascinated with vehicles of all kinds from a very young age. My daughter is less interested, but still insists on watching the car transporter every time we go past.

The sad thing is that if you gave preschoolers a list of objects like cars, dinosaurs, monsters, space rockets, butterflies, flowers, dolls, most would be able to sort them into "girls" and "boys". And that's not okay in my opinion, because it narrows the list of what is considered acceptable. If children's interests and opportunities are narrowed by stereotypical views at such a young age, then our daughters have very little chance of becoming physicists and our sons have very little chance of becoming primary school teachers.


----------



## RachA

I think the social norms are changing without the need for people to be gender neutral. At my sons school there are several male teachers. I also know civil engineers and chemist that are female. I'm sure i do know others in 'male' roles but can't concentrate at the moment as i'm trying to watch a film lol.
Women are being encouraged into jobs that have been traditionally male however if the women don't actually want those jobs then they can't be forced to take them. I know that there is still a sector of people that won't allow women to progress in certain jobs but a lot of jobs are, they actually have to be now. But this then causes problems because if the company isn't seen to be being equal ops then they get slated for it. But then actually a lot of it is because the women don't actually want the job in the first place. It's a bit of a funny situation really.


----------



## freckleonear

25% of primary schools have no male teacher, and there are only 48 male teachers in state nurseries in England! Things are gradually changing, but if things like "dolls are for girls" or "diggers are for boys" are ingrained in the first few years of life, then it has a huge impact on whether teenagers even consider going into certain professions. Options shouldn't be taken off the table at such a young age and it's difficult to send the message "you can do anything you want to" to older children when it has already been undermined in such a huge way.


----------



## bumpy_j

freckleonear said:


> https://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/12663_442647549104997_336645343_n.jpg
> 
> I think you can get it wrong at either extreme. Obviously not allowing a boy/girl to wear pink/blue or play with dolls/cars is wrong, but so is forcing them to take on opposite gender attributes. I'd imagine very few people fall into the latter category, but unfortunately there are still plenty of parents (particularly dads) who fall into the first. However, most of us fall somewhere in the middle, offering a wide range of choices whilst also respecting our children's likes and interests.
> 
> It's true that there are neurological differences between girls and boys. But stereotypes are based more in cultural history, repression of women and sexism (towards both genders). Obviously colours have absolutely nothing to do with biological differences between genders, so that's one stereotype that has no basis in fact!
> 
> It's not the actual colours/toys that are a problem, it's the gender associations attached to them. Having had a boy and a girl, I would agree that my son was definitely fascinated with vehicles of all kinds from a very young age. My daughter is less interested, but still insists on watching the car transporter every time we go past.
> 
> The sad thing is that if you gave preschoolers a list of objects like cars, dinosaurs, monsters, space rockets, butterflies, flowers, dolls, most would be able to sort them into "girls" and "boys". And that's not okay in my opinion, because it narrows the list of what is considered acceptable. If children's interests and opportunities are narrowed by stereotypical views at such a young age, then our daughters have very little chance of becoming physicists and our sons have very little chance of becoming primary school teachers.

Great post ! How many little girls say that they want to be astronauts? It's still considered a 'boy' thing. Why most space themed things are aimed at boys i'll never understand - I LOVED space when I was younger. It almost screams 'girls can't do science!'.


----------



## Lellow

Saw this advert at work on our intranet and it made me think of this thread:



> Quinny Zapp Pushchair Footmuff Wanted
> 
> Must be suitable for a boy please. Phone Claire on 01225 *****. Thank you.
> 
> Contributor : [email protected]

I.E - Its must be blue ;)


----------



## RachA

freckleonear said:


> 25% of primary schools have no male teacher, and there are only 48 male teachers in state nurseries in England! Things are gradually changing, but if things like "dolls are for girls" or "diggers are for boys" are ingrained in the first few years of life, then it has a huge impact on whether teenagers even consider going into certain professions. Options shouldn't be taken off the table at such a young age and it's difficult to send the message "you can do anything you want to" to older children when it has already been undermined in such a huge way.

With the whole male teacher in primary school and nursery thing do you not think that part of it is actually to do with the fact that if say a single male wanted to do the job they would be approached with caution because they could be wanting to go into for less than wholesome reasons rather than it's not seen as a manly thing to do?
I am someone who is gender specific in some areas - like clothes - but job wise i wouldn't ever advise me children not to do a certain job because it's 'just for boys/girls'. 
So i don't think job choices are always swayed by being gender specific quite as much as people might think. All subjects are open to our children at school and i know that dealing with my son at playschool and then school, they are not discouraged from playing with certain toys etc. 
From the age of 12 all i ever wanted to be was an engineer. Unfortunately i wasn't actually intelligent enough to go into it but it has always been something close to my heart. 23 years ago when i said that i wanted to be an engineer no-one ever said that it was a boys thing. I think it definitely comes down to person choice of career based on what that person is interested in.


----------



## mummy_ellie09

Josh does have a lot of 'boy' toys cause he's crackers about cars. BUT he loves to play with dolls and kitchens and any other 'girl' toy because that's all they are - toys. 
As for his clothes, I go for what suits him. So if they have diggers, dinosaurs and monsters on them, fine. If they have Peppa Pig, Upsy Daisy or 3rd and Bird on, so be it.
If I get to have a girl, yeah I'll dress her in pink, glittery girly clothes, but I'll also dress her in blue, dull boyish clothes. 
End of the day, whatever my child(ren) feel comfortable wearing or playing with, then that's up to them, they can do what they want


----------



## mandarhino

pinklightbulb said:


> I am very strongly gender-specific about clothing and toys. Reason being is that for the most part, boys' and girls' biological programming and brain chemistry is different and I don't want to mess with that at a young age where I could confuse him by giving him messages that *nothing* is "for boys" or "for girls" and everything is the same, because really, it's not :shrug:
> 
> Stereotypes are based on facts. Fact is, boys are different to girls. I embrace the fact that I have a lovely, boyish little boy who likes boy things and wouldn't have him any other way.
> 
> Boys are boys and girls are girls in most circumstances. Eamon has shown no interest in stereotypical girl things even when offered, and I have no inclination to push him towards accepting them if he doesn't want to. He is a boy's boy and quite happy like that :)

I'd really recommend reading this book. It's very helpful for questioning why things are the way they are. The patterning of children starts from the moment they are born. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pink-Brain-Blue-Differences-Troublesome/dp/1851687408

I dressed my daughter quite 'gender neutral' when she was little - say under 2. By that I mean leggings & trousers because they were comfier for crawling and walking and in a lot of purple, red, yellow, orange, green, turquoise, etc. 

She's always had a mix of toys from cars to stuffed toys to trains to dolls to kitchen stuff. 

When she hit about 2.5 years she decided she loved pink and refused to wear anything but dresses. Her favourite colour changed from orange (1 year to 18 months) to yellow (18-36 months) to pink and white (from 36 months). 

For the most part this was influenced by her nursery which tends to stereotype girls and boys and what their interests are. The other little kids in her classroom tended to be more divided among pink & blue lines clothing wise. The most frustrating thing was that she started coming out with statements such as 'boys like x, girls like y'. We spent a lot of time saying to her no 'kids like x and y'. 

I know this phase is a normal part of her finding out who she is and how she fits into the world. We just wanted to make sure that she wasn't having her options and interests closed off during this period by having to conform to the gender roles she sees all around her.


----------



## Siyren

on an interesting note, the shop assistant was thoroughly confused when my little girl proudly bought this top to the counter earlier. 
lyss is obsessed with all things cat shaped atm be that big cats or moggy's.
so she was thrilled when i said she could have this top (boys section, next)
the shop assisstant actually told me it was from the boys section. 
i couldnt care less, lyss loves it!!!

https://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1570/img2012112000955.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Siyren

wow thats huge! sorry x


----------



## rwhite

That's a super cool top Siyren, bet she looks cute as in it too :)


----------



## starlight2801

My little girl has some dresses but I have to admit to dressing her in jeans and leggings the majority of the time. This hasn't really been a conscious thing for me or an attempt to be gender neutral. I guess I've been drawn to dressing her that way as I've always lived in my jeans. 

In terms of toys and books she plays with/reads what she likes and has a mixture of pink toys and the more neutral yellow/red toys. Strangely there was a time (around the age of 1) when I could hold out a yellow toy in one hand and the pink version of the same toy in the other and she would reach for the yellow toy but now at almost two she goes for the pink every time. 

I'm pregnant with a boy now and again I'm happy for him to play with what he wants to. 

To be honest in this modern age I can't see how playing with kitchens and dolls and pushchairs isn't masculine anyway. In my house its my husband who does most of the cooking and although I'm the primary carer of our LO he certainly does his share of nappy changes, bedtime routines and pushchair pushing. Surely given the fact that men do these things its only natural for boys to role play them at a young age?


----------



## Palestrina

The topic of gender is very important to me. For anyone interested in how harmful the media is towards women please take a minute to watch this fascinating trailer of the documentary Missrepresentation. It's what got me thinking and believing that we have to do something to even up the playing field for little girls and to take the pressure off boys to become misogynistic. It really starts with awareness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ap2xnMcvpw


----------



## chell5544

Great video link :thumbup:


----------



## MaskedKitteh

pinklightbulb said:


> I am very strongly gender-specific about clothing and toys. Reason being is that for the most part, boys' and girls' biological programming and brain chemistry is different and I don't want to mess with that at a young age where I could confuse him by giving him messages that *nothing* is "for boys" or "for girls" and everything is the same, because really, it's not :shrug:
> 
> Stereotypes are based on facts. Fact is, boys are different to girls. I embrace the fact that I have a lovely, boyish little boy who likes boy things and wouldn't have him any other way.
> 
> Boys are boys and girls are girls in most circumstances. Eamon has shown no interest in stereotypical girl things even when offered, and I have no inclination to push him towards accepting them if he doesn't want to. He is a boy's boy and quite happy like that :)



Thank you. you said everything I believe in a better way than i could have.


----------



## jenny82

This thread came to mind yesterday while talking with OH. We're buying the two babies a kitchen between them for Christmas and also a few other little bits and pieces. Baby girl loves my new dyson Hoover and just follows me round while I'm using it. I saw a toy one online and thought about getting it but my OH was very against the idea as he doesn't want her to have that kind of thing as a toy. But I asked him if he would be happy if I suggested it for the boy and he said he would! 

So it's ok to make it the norm for the boy to use the hoover, but not ok for the girl as that just reinforces those traditional views. I just thought that was very strange :/


----------



## special_kala

My kids play with what they are interested in. If thats dolls great....toy cars great.

I see no need to be fully gender specific. My girls know they are girls, i dont need to put any restriction on the things they play with or wear.

That said i dont think its fair to really push the gender boundaries, i wouldnt name a boy Emily and i wouldnt buy a boy a pink dress. I dont think thats fair at all and can be more about the parent then the child.

A certain amount of boundary's is completely normal and necessary. I dont think that letting a boy play with girls toys or like pink will effect them and the whole it will make them gay thing is ridiculous...if someone is gay then their gay doesnt matter how you raise them.


----------



## Palestrina

special_kala said:


> I see no need to be fully gender specific. My girls know they are girls, i dont need to put any restriction on the things they play with or wear.
> 
> That said i dont think its fair to really push the gender boundaries, i wouldnt name a boy Emily and i wouldnt buy a boy a pink dress. I dont think thats fair at all and can be more about the parent then the child.
> 
> .


Yes, people know who they are from a very early age. Ask any adult who is gay, transgendered etc and they will all tell you that they knew early on who they were inside and who they were expected to be on the outside. It can be a complicated issue. 

Just a question though.... what if your boy asked for a pink dress? What would you do then?


----------



## special_kala

Palestrina said:


> special_kala said:
> 
> 
> I see no need to be fully gender specific. My girls know they are girls, i dont need to put any restriction on the things they play with or wear.
> 
> That said i dont think its fair to really push the gender boundaries, i wouldnt name a boy Emily and i wouldnt buy a boy a pink dress. I dont think thats fair at all and can be more about the parent then the child.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Yes, people know who they are from a very early age. Ask any adult who is gay, transgendered etc and they will all tell you that they knew early on who they were inside and who they were expected to be on the outside. It can be a complicated issue.
> 
> Just a question though.... what if your boy asked for a pink dress? What would you do then?Click to expand...

Id let him play dress up but i wouldnt have it as regular every day wear


----------



## louandivy

jenny82 said:


> This thread came to mind yesterday while talking with OH. We're buying the two babies a kitchen between them for Christmas and also a few other little bits and pieces. Baby girl loves my new dyson Hoover and just follows me round while I'm using it. I saw a toy one online and thought about getting it but my OH was very against the idea as he doesn't want her to have that kind of thing as a toy. But I asked him if he would be happy if I suggested it for the boy and he said he would!
> 
> So it's ok to make it the norm for the boy to use the hoover, but not ok for the girl as that just reinforces those traditional views. I just thought that was very strange :/

I can see how oh's logic is a bit skewed but I think it is great that he is considered about your little girl conforming to traditional gender roles!


----------



## littlegenes

I dress her in girly clothes and her bedroom is pink and lots of her books are about girly things- princesses etc. However, she plays with lots of boys toys- but at this age im thinking why does it really matter? She wanted a train set for christmas so I have got her one...it will make her happy as larry. As will her baby annabell doll and the kitchen I am going to get her. And the monkey puppet toy.....I have all sisters and we played with Action man, toy soldiers and trainsets when we were little- we assume because it was what we enjoyed so our parents brought them for us.


----------



## KittyVentura

Avert your eyes...

Spoiler
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/f940da5e733068228297b8bc094609a9.jpg

But as much that, she wears this. 
Boys romper, bought for her, not ex Fins
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/5a697114aa616cd6e62e955b2f4b9263.jpg

And brights like this...
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/ca992dda5c84595ffd0cbf263b843047.jpg

Fin wears this...
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/335d45a8cf2d4b39c17de73189ccf513.jpg
One of my pinnies. Just because.

But mostly this kind of thing
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/d2c556753c2cefae04da1c5bfb17984e.jpg

Rarely this...
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/8f7942433eba765329eaa2ed28ad12f4.jpg
https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x444/KittyVentura/583f1761983effc58b9b11ea67e5852b.jpg

He loves Amelia's dolls and has his own buggy with a teddy in. He loves to tidy and help with the housework and play cooking etc as much as he loves his train sets and cars. But mostly he just loves puzzles. He wears what I like right now... which is a mix of leggings, cords and jeans. Mostly slim fitted and in winter shades. Lots of berry and ochre. But if he chooses to put on her hairbands or tutus, that's fine. When Daisy comes over he likes to put her pink coat on. When he can choose, if he wants to wear dresses then we'll happily buy him them. His fancy dress box has just as much girls stuff as it does boys. He can be whoever he wants to be. We don't limit him to JUST boys things or restrict girls stuff. We don't even use those words around him. But, while it is MY choice in clothes, I refuse to choose myself to dress him as a girl. We play girlish games and boyish games. He will just as happily trot in and pour me some tea and feed some to dolly as he will bring in his trains.

We will take the same approach with Amelia. 

Xx


----------



## littlegenes

Kitty- can I kidnap your kids?! They are both adorable!


----------



## jenny82

louandivy said:


> jenny82 said:
> 
> 
> This thread came to mind yesterday while talking with OH. We're buying the two babies a kitchen between them for Christmas and also a few other little bits and pieces. Baby girl loves my new dyson Hoover and just follows me round while I'm using it. I saw a toy one online and thought about getting it but my OH was very against the idea as he doesn't want her to have that kind of thing as a toy. But I asked him if he would be happy if I suggested it for the boy and he said he would!
> 
> So it's ok to make it the norm for the boy to use the hoover, but not ok for the girl as that just reinforces those traditional views. I just thought that was very strange :/
> 
> I can see how oh's logic is a bit skewed but I think it is great that he is considered about your little girl conforming to traditional gender roles!Click to expand...

Oh it is great! It's just strange/funny how its almost gone the other way, just to avoid the norm. I do agree with him too so think ill not bother with the toy.


----------



## KittyVentura

Could you buy the toy as a joint present for both kiddies Jenny? Xx


----------



## KittyVentura

littlegenes said:


> Kitty- can I kidnap your kids?! They are both adorable!

Go for it. Fin is a two year old with a teenagers wit and Amelia is the sweetest thing... Until things don't go her exact way and then she is the BIGGEST DIVA EVER and NOTHING will calm her until she decides she is ready... 

Bring them back in a few years? Xx


----------



## Sarahkka

Today I had a lovely session with my son who wanted to play with my "make-ups". I gave him some old eyeshadows, lip gloss, and brushes and he has happily spent a good half hour painting himself and me - (and by the way, I think I have discovered a new look: purple eyeshadow swept backwards through the eyebrows! :kiss: ). This has been the sweetest half hour - he is very intent and concentrating very hard on putting the make-up on, and then keeps telling me how wonderful I look. :cloud9:
I cannot imagine having missed this by shutting down his request to play with me because make-up is supposed to be for girls. Not this mama!


----------



## LittleBoo

Sarahkka that's so sweet! :cloud9:


----------



## rwhite

I agree, how cute is that! Not sure that I'd trust Lachlan yet with makeup brushes at least, I know one of us would get poked in the eye, but will let him do that when I'm confident enough :haha:


----------



## Sarahkka

Oh, I was a tad nervous at times, but he was very careful and gentle. I should have taken a picture of him at the end - so funny! :haha:


----------



## xemmax

Awwww Sarah that is adorable! I love how he was telling you how wonderful you look. Oli absolutely loves playing with my make up, but I did have to stop him. He was ruining my brushes with his favourite black and purple shadows (why do they always like the darkest?).

I did actually manage to get a picture:

https://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/emmafinola/14C7C19B-7E08-459D-8BF6-6D9773F88F62-25333-000026789EC40120.jpg

He doesn't look at all feminine though.. more like he's tried to camouflage himself. :dohh:


----------



## emme

Emma, oli looks so much like you in that pic! Xx


----------



## xemmax

emme said:


> Emma, oli looks so much like you in that pic! Xx

Aww thanks, probably his make up skills :haha: xx


----------



## Lina

This reminded me of this thread!:thumbup:


----------



## Tacey

The flow chart made me choke on my tea! Genius!


----------



## hellohefalump

I have a boy and a girl so we have both gender toys, but my girl always goes for the girly ones, and mojo spends 98% of his time playing with his train set!


----------



## RachA

jenny82 said:


> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jenny82 said:
> 
> 
> This thread came to mind yesterday while talking with OH. We're buying the two babies a kitchen between them for Christmas and also a few other little bits and pieces. Baby girl loves my new dyson Hoover and just follows me round while I'm using it. I saw a toy one online and thought about getting it but my OH was very against the idea as he doesn't want her to have that kind of thing as a toy. But I asked him if he would be happy if I suggested it for the boy and he said he would!
> 
> So it's ok to make it the norm for the boy to use the hoover, but not ok for the girl as that just reinforces those traditional views. I just thought that was very strange :/
> 
> I can see how oh's logic is a bit skewed but I think it is great that he is considered about your little girl conforming to traditional gender roles!Click to expand...
> 
> Oh it is great! It's just strange/funny how its almost gone the other way, just to avoid the norm. I do agree with him too so think ill not bother with the toy.Click to expand...


This makes me laugh. If a boy wants a hoover is great as it means he's not conforming to the gender role so there it gets bought but if the girl wants it then it will only reinforce the gender role so it doesn't get bought.

To me the idea of not being gender specific is that regardless of the sex of the child the item is bought because they are interested in it and is nothing to do with the perceived sex of the item.


----------



## we can't wait

Do you...

*Dress them in obviously boyish/girly clothes?*
Yes. I dress my LO in obviously girly clothes a lot. Obviously not always. She has some clothes that are just neutral... but yes, we like to put her in pinks, purples, skirts, hairbows, etc. She loves picking out clothes and putting ties in her hair.

*Buy boys My Very Noisy Digger book and girls My Very Twirly Ballerina, for example?*
I don't have a boy, only a girl, but sure. DH and I like to buy LO the Fancy Nancy books. They're so glittery and fun! She also loves the Biscuit books, Clifford books, and LOVES her Sesame Street books.

*Buy stuff that specifically is labelled for your child's gender, like "100 Cool Facts For Boys" or "100 Great Things To Draw For Girls"?*
We haven't yet, but I'd buy her either one she wanted. It would depend on what was in them. If the 100 Cool Facts for Boys was, like, things about animals and stuff that LO was interested in, then I'd probably get it for her. Honestly, though, I'd be more inclined to get her the girly one if I was picking. But she's also still a toddler... she hasn't really shown her own interests into things like that yet.

*Buy the pink version of a standard toy for your girl?*
We usually buy her the pink version, unless we don't like it. For example, we got her the blue Mickey Mouse train for her birthday, because we thought she'd like it better than the pink Dora train. It just depends. We usually end up getting her blue/green cars, because they don't come in girly colors.

*Let your boy wear pink clothes or have pink toys if he wants?*
Eh. I don't have a boy, so I can't really say. I wouldn't mind if he was wearing pink/purple/etc while he was just playing around the house, but I'd probably dress him differently if we were going out. Similarly, LO has never gotten her hair cut, but I would have never let a son's hair get this long, and would have cut it a while ago. It's just a personal preference. If I had a son and he came to the conclusion that he liked wearing "girl" colors on his own, then yes, I'd let him dress in them. But I would see no reason to put my one year old boy in pink just to be less gender specific.

I kind of like the specific different gender roles, tbh. :shrug:


----------



## Kess

fannyadams said:


> I dressed my boy as a boy and I dress my girl as a girl.
> If that makes me 'gender bias' so be it but personally I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What's wrong with embracing who you are? Until my children can choose for themselves I'll dress them as the gender they were born.

Because it isn't necessarily who they are. Children do not have a gender when they are born, they have a sex, i.e. the tiny biological differences such as genitalia, boys being larger at birth and less developed and having a slightly higher level of testosterone until 6 months old (at which time it levels off to the same amount as girls' until puberty). They develop a lot of differences such as boys being much more spacially aware and better at maths due to society pushing them that way and tiny biological differences being exacerbated by practice. Gender is the societal construct cultures place around these tiny biological differences.



pinklightbulb said:


> I am very strongly gender-specific about clothing and toys. Reason being is that for the most part, boys' and girls' biological programming and brain chemistry is different and I don't want to mess with that at a young age where I could confuse him by giving him messages that *nothing* is "for boys" or "for girls" and everything is the same, because really, it's not :shrug:
> 
> Stereotypes are based on facts. Fact is, boys are different to girls. I embrace the fact that I have a lovely, boyish little boy who likes boy things and wouldn't have him any other way.
> 
> Boys are boys and girls are girls in most circumstances. Eamon has shown no interest in stereotypical girl things even when offered, and I have no inclination to push him towards accepting them if he doesn't want to. He is a boy's boy and quite happy like that :)

Pink is (currently) the stereotypical girl colour. What about it is natural or factual (apart from the fact it is a stereotype!)? There are enough girls into "boy" things and boys into "girl" things that I can't think of anything that is "for boys" or "for girls" in reality.


----------



## pinklightbulb

Kess said:


> fannyadams said:
> 
> 
> I dressed my boy as a boy and I dress my girl as a girl.
> If that makes me 'gender bias' so be it but personally I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What's wrong with embracing who you are? Until my children can choose for themselves I'll dress them as the gender they were born.
> 
> Because it isn't necessarily who they are. Children do not have a gender when they are born, they have a sex, i.e. the tiny biological differences such as genitalia, boys being larger at birth and less developed and having a slightly higher level of testosterone until 6 months old (at which time it levels off to the same amount as girls' until puberty). They develop a lot of differences such as boys being much more spacially aware and better at maths due to society pushing them that way and tiny biological differences being exacerbated by practice. Gender is the societal construct cultures place around these tiny biological differences.
> 
> 
> 
> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> I am very strongly gender-specific about clothing and toys. Reason being is that for the most part, boys' and girls' biological programming and brain chemistry is different and I don't want to mess with that at a young age where I could confuse him by giving him messages that *nothing* is "for boys" or "for girls" and everything is the same, because really, it's not :shrug:
> 
> Stereotypes are based on facts. Fact is, boys are different to girls. I embrace the fact that I have a lovely, boyish little boy who likes boy things and wouldn't have him any other way.
> 
> Boys are boys and girls are girls in most circumstances. Eamon has shown no interest in stereotypical girl things even when offered, and I have no inclination to push him towards accepting them if he doesn't want to. He is a boy's boy and quite happy like that :)Click to expand...
> 
> Pink is (currently) the stereotypical girl colour. What about it is natural or factual (apart from the fact it is a stereotype!)? There are enough girls into "boy" things and boys into "girl" things that I can't think of anything that is "for boys" or "for girls" in reality.Click to expand...

I can think of plenty :shrug: You don't see many female diesel fitters or mechanics or builders or carpenters, do you? Sure, they are out there, but they're a minority. Same as male nursery workers, midwives, or anything to do with "nurturing" occupations-- also a vast minority. There are far more SAHMs than SAHDs. There are far more males in physical trades than females.

And you know why? Biology. Men = hunter/gatherer. Women = caretaker/nurturer. We have different brain wiring than men. That IS a fact. I'm all for feminism and equal opportunity and all that, but the reality is, men and women are not biologically programmed the same and it shows in a lot of different ways.

Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.


----------



## OmarsMum

pinklightbulb- I agree with you when it comes to different biology but I still don't understand how it's related to toys or dress colours. 

DH is the main supporter of our house, he brings in the money & I stay home to take care or our family, but he wears pink, purple & red, & he has many shirts with flowers prints, they don't look odd for a man, in fact all my brothers (31, 26 & 19) wear pink from time to time. 

My dad is 62, he wears light pink shirts & light purple ones (check Marks & Spenser, they have lovely colours for men's shirts) 

It's only a colour. I wear shirts & jeans all the time, most of my shirts have blue in them. I only have 1 pink shirt, it doesn't make me less feminine if I choose blue over pink. 

We're talking about forcing the gender stereotypes when it comes to colour on our toddlers. Most of boys outfits for toddlers are grey, blue & navy especially now at winter. Those colours scream dull! 

Yesterday, I had to buy t-shirts for Omar from the girls section, they look uni-sex but they have more cheerful colours. 

As for toys, Omar hates cars & trains, he has a car garage & a train set, but he's not so interested, he loves to play picnics using his toy food & tea set. He hates to ride a bike but he loves to push his stroller when we go to the park. 

My brother who's 8 years younger than me used to play with my barbies instead of playing with my older brothers soldiers & cars. Now at 26 he's a very successful straight engineer who wears pink & flower prints. He doesn't suffer from gender confusion or any disorders


----------



## pinklightbulb

I won't dress my boys in pink because it *is* the stereotypical "girl" colour, if that makes sense. I don't want them to be bullied by the majority, which will happen, because boys in pink (at least in my country) is definitely not the norm and they will be bullied for it. I know kids will pick on anything so I want to minimise any and all risks that I can for them. Dressing them in pink to me seems like setting them up for a fall and as their mother I want to avoid that if I can :flower:


----------



## freckleonear

pinklightbulb said:


> Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.

Actually there is quite a lot of evidence that the majority of gender identity disorder cases only exist because of the gender stereotypes that society tries to impose. For example, there was a young boy diagnosed with GID because he liked pink girly clothes, and therefore felt that he couldn't identify with the male gender because society insists that those things are "girly". If people felt free to like whatever colours and activities they choose, no matter what their sex, then it wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## pinklightbulb

I thought it was more that the wiring of the brain in GIDs was scientifically shown to be more like that of the opposite gender that they felt they should have been? Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Palestrina

pinklightbulb said:


> I won't dress my boys in pink because it *is* the stereotypical "girl" colour, if that makes sense. I don't want them to be bullied by the majority, which will happen, because boys in pink (at least in my country) is definitely not the norm and they will be bullied for it. I know kids will pick on anything so I want to minimise any and all risks that I can for them. Dressing them in pink to me seems like setting them up for a fall and as their mother I want to avoid that if I can :flower:

That's like teaching a kid to be scared to be different. I don't think that by letting a child choose the color of his shirt sets him/her up for a fall. Bullying will happen no matter what, a shirt, a pimple, a haircut, good grades, there are infinite triggers of bullying. You can't put a kid in a perfect box to protect them from bullying - bullying is senseless and it stems directly from the bully him/herself. Bullying and the effects of bullying have to be dealt with directly, the bullies are the ones who are doing something wrong, blame the bullies - not the kid with the wrong colored shirt. Enforcing the idea of preventative bullying is more likely to set a kid up to bully another kid, kind of like "My dad says it's not ok to wear pink therefore I'll make fun of anyone who does."


----------



## Sarahkka

pinklightbulb said:


> I can think of plenty :shrug: You don't see many female diesel fitters or mechanics or builders or carpenters, do you? Sure, they are out there, but they're a minority. Same as male nursery workers, midwives, or anything to do with "nurturing" occupations-- also a vast minority. There are far more SAHMs than SAHDs. There are far more males in physical trades than females.
> 
> And you know why? Biology. Men = hunter/gatherer. Women = caretaker/nurturer. We have different brain wiring than men. *That IS a fact. *I'm all for feminism and equal opportunity and all that, but the reality is, men and women are not biologically programmed the same and it shows in a lot of different ways.
> 
> Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.

I'd like to know where you are getting these "facts"? You are writing as though you are claiming some irrefutable truth. I take exception. What you are proclaiming as fact is your own rather limited interpretation of brain science. Men and women have played hugely different roles in a wide variety of cultures throughout our history. Men have cared for children, women have been warriors. The lens with which you are interpreting both history and anthropology here is inherently biased. 
And using those examples of careers which have been more dominated by one sex or another? That's nature, eh? We have fewer women engineers because our cute little brains are better wired for childcare? Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with centuries of suppressing women and giving them absolutely no choice in the matter.
I'm seriously having a hard time believing that you just wrote that. :nope:


----------



## RachA

OmarsMum said:


> pinklightbulb- I agree with you when it comes to different biology but I still don't understand how it's related to toys or dress colours.
> 
> DH is the main supporter of our house, he brings in the money & I stay home to take care or our family, but he wears pink, purple & red, & he has many shirts with flowers prints, they don't look odd for a man, in fact all my brothers (31, 26 & 19) wear pink from time to time.
> 
> My dad is 62, he wears light pink shirts & light purple ones (check Marks & Spenser, they have lovely colours for men's shirts)
> 
> It's only a colour. I wear shirts & jeans all the time, most of my shirts have blue in them. I only have 1 pink shirt, it doesn't make me less feminine if I choose blue over pink.
> 
> *We're talking about forcing the gender stereotypes when it comes to colour on our toddlers. Most of boys outfits for toddlers are grey, blue & navy especially now at winter. Those colours scream dull! *
> 
> Yesterday, I had to buy t-shirts for Omar from the girls section, they look uni-sex but they have more cheerful colours.
> 
> As for toys, Omar hates cars & trains, he has a car garage & a train set, but he's not so interested, he loves to play picnics using his toy food & tea set. He hates to ride a bike but he loves to push his stroller when we go to the park.
> 
> My brother who's 8 years younger than me used to play with my barbies instead of playing with my older brothers soldiers & cars. Now at 26 he's a very successful straight engineer who wears pink & flower prints. He doesn't suffer from gender confusion or any disorders


But that does depend on where you buy clothes from. I like bright colours on both of my children so i avoid navy blues, blacks and greys. Daniel usually wears oranges, reds, yellows, brighter blues, greens etc. He has a number of items that have pinks and purples in them. I've never once thought i needed to go to the girls section to buy him anything. If the store i went in didn't have anything i liked then i would go elsewhere.


----------



## RachA

Sarahkka said:


> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> I can think of plenty :shrug: You don't see many female diesel fitters or mechanics or builders or carpenters, do you? Sure, they are out there, but they're a minority. Same as male nursery workers, midwives, or anything to do with "nurturing" occupations-- also a vast minority. There are far more SAHMs than SAHDs. There are far more males in physical trades than females.
> 
> And you know why? Biology. Men = hunter/gatherer. Women = caretaker/nurturer. We have different brain wiring than men. *That IS a fact. *I'm all for feminism and equal opportunity and all that, but the reality is, men and women are not biologically programmed the same and it shows in a lot of different ways.
> 
> Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.
> 
> I'd like to know where you are getting these "facts"? You are writing as though you are claiming some irrefutable truth. I take exception. What you are proclaiming as fact is your own rather limited interpretation of brain science. Men and women have played hugely different roles in a wide variety of cultures throughout our history. Men have cared for children, women have been warriors. The lens with which you are interpreting both history and anthropology here is inherently biased.
> And using those examples of careers which have been more dominated by one sex or another? That's nature, eh? We have fewer women engineers because our cute little brains are better wired for childcare? Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with centuries of suppressing women and giving them absolutely no choice in the matter.
> I'm seriously having a hard time believing that you just wrote that. :nope:Click to expand...

But by the same token you are now saying that the reason that i 100% feel that i should be at home looking after my children is because of years of conditioning rather than because i actually want to be. I haven't been suppressed into believing that i should be at home. It was a considered decision made by us as a family.


----------



## Sarahkka

RachA said:


> Sarahkka said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> I can think of plenty :shrug: You don't see many female diesel fitters or mechanics or builders or carpenters, do you? Sure, they are out there, but they're a minority. Same as male nursery workers, midwives, or anything to do with "nurturing" occupations-- also a vast minority. There are far more SAHMs than SAHDs. There are far more males in physical trades than females.
> 
> And you know why? Biology. Men = hunter/gatherer. Women = caretaker/nurturer. We have different brain wiring than men. *That IS a fact. *I'm all for feminism and equal opportunity and all that, but the reality is, men and women are not biologically programmed the same and it shows in a lot of different ways.
> 
> Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.
> 
> I'd like to know where you are getting these "facts"? You are writing as though you are claiming some irrefutable truth. I take exception. What you are proclaiming as fact is your own rather limited interpretation of brain science. Men and women have played hugely different roles in a wide variety of cultures throughout our history. Men have cared for children, women have been warriors. The lens with which you are interpreting both history and anthropology here is inherently biased.
> And using those examples of careers which have been more dominated by one sex or another? That's nature, eh? We have fewer women engineers because our cute little brains are better wired for childcare? Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with centuries of suppressing women and giving them absolutely no choice in the matter.
> I'm seriously having a hard time believing that you just wrote that. :nope:Click to expand...
> 
> But by the same token you are now saying that the reason that i 100% feel that i should be at home looking after my children is because of years of conditioning rather than because i actually want to be. I haven't been suppressed into believing that i should be at home. It was a considered decision made by us as a family.Click to expand...

I am not saying that in the slightest. The complete opposite, actually. You made a _choice_ to look after your family as a stay at home parent, just as I did. It had nothing to do with either of us following our "natural brain wiring" or any such rubbish.
Women's brains are every bit as capable as men's to do engineering and men's brains are every bit as capable as women's to nurture. Any appearances to the contrary are social constructs - ones which came out of a very dark time for women. When we weren't even legally considered people. It had nothing to do with anyone's brains being more suited to one thing or another.


----------



## RachA

Sorry i didn't mean to sound so defensive when i wrote that.


While i agree that women's brains are capable of being engineers i wouldn't go so far as to say all women's brains are. Some women just don't understand the sciences. But i would also say that not all men are able to understand sciences etc. I have two nieces who have been brought up in such a way that they are encouraged to be what they want to be when they grow up. The eldest, who is 14, is very much into fashion and is a designer - very much a 'girly girl'. The youngest, nearly 11, is extremely gifted in math and sciences and really wants to be a farmer of some sort. They have both been brought up the same and they were both very much dressed in girly clothes and encouraged to play with dolls etc. I think that you can dress them up in clothes for their gender and give them toys for their gender but if you encourage them then they will do the job that they want to do any way.


----------



## Midnight_Fairy

I dress my boy in boy stuff and girl in girls clothes. I am due another girl, we have loads of pink, tutus, tights etc because thats what I like. She also has stars, underwater and jungle stuff. I love all girly things and I dont think that's bad at all. 

We are a very outdoorsy family and we do many dog walks, nature walks etc. I love nature and animals but I do tend to buy my girls sparkley/cute/pink things. My dd loves it but she is not a girly girl. She will always opt for pink or purple but she is very laid back too and has mainly male friends at school.

I dont see a problem with it. I love little girly stuff :D


----------



## louandivy

Sarahkka I agree with everything you said and couldnt word it any better myself!


----------



## Sarahkka

RachA said:


> Sorry i didn't mean to sound so defensive when i wrote that.
> 
> 
> While i agree that women's brains are capable of being engineers i wouldn't go so far as to say all women's brains are. Some women just don't understand the sciences. But i would also say that not all men are able to understand sciences etc. I have two nieces who have been brought up in such a way that they are encouraged to be what they want to be when they grow up. The eldest, who is 14, is very much into fashion and is a designer - very much a 'girly girl'. The youngest, nearly 11, is extremely gifted in math and sciences and really wants to be a farmer of some sort. They have both been brought up the same and they were both very much dressed in girly clothes and encouraged to play with dolls etc. I think that you can dress them up in clothes for their gender and give them toys for their gender but if you encourage them then they will do the job that they want to do any way.

:flower: I may have sounded a tad more aggressive than I intended to, as well... :blush:

There are certain patterns or trends in brain wiring that may influence how we solve problems or approach certain subject matters, but the idea that women's brains are hardwired to nurture, but are somehow inferior at traditionally male pursuits is the same argument that was used to deny women the vote or any opportunities to seek out education. It is absolute BS. 
I completely agree with you that our individual inherited intelligences will influence our choices. We all have predispositions to certain traits. However, there is huge scientific debate about what is nature and what is nurture even in situations as you described with your nieces. I have an academic background in both arts and sciences. I am definitely stronger naturally at language arts-related topics, but as long as I work hard, I can still kick ass in math and physics. It doesn't come as easily, but I can certainly do it. The influence of gender on that is negligible. Unless, of course, I am also in a place that tells me that I am not as capable because my girl-brain was meant for other things... 
And in all fairness, as the mother of sons, I write this with passion because I don't want my sons growing up in a world in which they have to feel defensive for being emotional or expressive or nurturing.


----------



## OmarsMum

Rach- I was looking for a full sleeves t-shirt with pink. He doesn't wear full sleeves, it's getting cold so he have to wear full sleeves, his fav colour is pink. He had 2 pink polo shirts (from the boys section) but those are too small now & they're short sleeves. So I thought a uni-sex looking t-shirt from the girls section with some pink would be fine. 

This is the t-shirt, does look too girly for a girly looking boy? :rofl: he's mistaken for a girl even if he's dressed in very boyish blue outfits from tip to toe. 

https://www.okaidi.fr/VAD/p:1:1:1:264662.htm

It matches his pink converse ;)


----------



## RachA

That doesn't look like a particularly girly looking t-shirt :)


----------



## OmarsMum

RachA said:


> That doesn't look like a particularly girly looking t-shirt :)

Well, it's from the girls section :) this is why I do look at girls sections for outfits, I love to buy jeans from girls sections, they fit better. I don't like the neon orange or bright green in boys section


----------



## Palestrina

Sarahkka said:


> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> I can think of plenty :shrug: You don't see many female diesel fitters or mechanics or builders or carpenters, do you? Sure, they are out there, but they're a minority. Same as male nursery workers, midwives, or anything to do with "nurturing" occupations-- also a vast minority. There are far more SAHMs than SAHDs. There are far more males in physical trades than females.
> 
> And you know why? Biology. Men = hunter/gatherer. Women = caretaker/nurturer. We have different brain wiring than men. *That IS a fact. *I'm all for feminism and equal opportunity and all that, but the reality is, men and women are not biologically programmed the same and it shows in a lot of different ways.
> 
> Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.
> 
> I'd like to know where you are getting these "facts"? You are writing as though you are claiming some irrefutable truth. I take exception. What you are proclaiming as fact is your own rather limited interpretation of brain science. Men and women have played hugely different roles in a wide variety of cultures throughout our history. Men have cared for children, women have been warriors. The lens with which you are interpreting both history and anthropology here is inherently biased.
> And using those examples of careers which have been more dominated by one sex or another? That's nature, eh? * We have fewer women engineers because our cute little brains are better wired for childcare?* Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with centuries of suppressing women and giving them absolutely no choice in the matter.
> I'm seriously having a hard time believing that you just wrote that. :nope:Click to expand...

ROFL!!

But on a serious thought, yes I agree wholeheartedly. What if a teacher said that to your son? "Dear, you shouldn't play with the dolls because you'd be better at building things, go play with the legos." That's basically what you're insinuating when talking about girl brains and boy brains. If a teacher dared to insinuate such an idea on my son I'd flip out and march down to that school to give her a piece of my mind.


----------



## TattieHattie

Ive always dressed my boy in typical boy clothes and my girl in dresses tights, i dont think it matters, well imo.
they share toys so that's never going to be an issue with me.
i was dressed neutral most of my childhood and i'm really girly now. They have their own minds to make their own choices when they can & i can't understand what this is about tbh, women can raise their kids in whatever way they see fit and shouldn't feel judged by anyone for doing so:shrug:


----------



## louandivy

TattieHattie said:


> Ive always dressed my boy in typical boy clothes and my girl in dresses tights, i dont think it matters, well imo.
> they share toys so that's never going to be an issue with me.
> i was dressed neutral most of my childhood and i'm really girly now. They have their own minds to make their own choices when they can & i can't understand what this is about tbh, women can raise their kids in whatever way they see fit and shouldn't feel judged by anyone for doing so:shrug:

Have you read the thread though? No one is judging anyone's parenting at all, it is a pretty calm debate about whether gender stereotypes are innate or a social construct.


----------



## Leffy

I have one daughter and i let her choose, before she could it was a mix really I dont believe in pushing them to conform OR not too IYGWIM?

I hate the NO PINK brigade as much as the all pinks lol

my dd is 2 now and likes pink but she loves mud and tractors just as much, I will encourage her to be herself as much as i can.


----------



## Midnight_Fairy

Leffy said:


> I have one daughter and i let her choose, before she could it was a mix really I dont believe in pushing them to conform OR not too IYGWIM?
> 
> I hate the NO PINK brigade as much as the all pinks lol
> 
> my dd is 2 now and likes pink but she loves mud and tractors just as much, I will encourage her to be herself as much as i can.

I agree that making a point against hating pink is making it an issue in itself lol x


----------



## pinklightbulb

Sarahkka said:


> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> I can think of plenty :shrug: You don't see many female diesel fitters or mechanics or builders or carpenters, do you? Sure, they are out there, but they're a minority. Same as male nursery workers, midwives, or anything to do with "nurturing" occupations-- also a vast minority. There are far more SAHMs than SAHDs. There are far more males in physical trades than females.
> 
> And you know why? Biology. Men = hunter/gatherer. Women = caretaker/nurturer. We have different brain wiring than men. *That IS a fact. *I'm all for feminism and equal opportunity and all that, but the reality is, men and women are not biologically programmed the same and it shows in a lot of different ways.
> 
> Otherwise, why would we have people out there with gender-identity disorders? If we were all truly the same, nobody would feel they were the "wrong" gender, would they? I feel for those in that position and it must be really hard for them, but it speaks volumes for my entire argument about there being marked differences in gender. There definitely are and there isn't really any escaping it, so I don't see why pushing for "no stereotypes" will make a difference when men and women are designed to be different by nature.
> 
> I'd like to know where you are getting these "facts"? You are writing as though you are claiming some irrefutable truth. I take exception. What you are proclaiming as fact is your own rather limited interpretation of brain science. Men and women have played hugely different roles in a wide variety of cultures throughout our history. Men have cared for children, women have been warriors. The lens with which you are interpreting both history and anthropology here is inherently biased.
> And using those examples of careers which have been more dominated by one sex or another? That's nature, eh? We have fewer women engineers because our cute little brains are better wired for childcare? Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with centuries of suppressing women and giving them absolutely no choice in the matter.
> I'm seriously having a hard time believing that you just wrote that. :nope:Click to expand...

I didn't think you were agressive at all, nor anyone else chick :flower: I'm not scared of a good debate.

Anyway, yes, brain wiring *is* different. I've noticed nobody except freckleonear has responded to the point I made about GID. Then why is it that this disorder exists, when a lot of these people say that they were born that way, and have felt that way since they could ever remember, and so no stereotypes would matter, that being the case? Doesn't that say to you that something in their brain, not their environment, is differently programmed to make them feel that they are the opposite gender? 

And if it makes life easier for my boys, I won't encourage them to be "different" if they show no inclination to. If they're happy being boys and wearing blue and playing with male-oriented toys/games, why should I change that? I've taken Eamon down the "girl" aisles in shops and he barely blinks. Put him in front of cars, trucks, etc and he lights up. 

Clearly, these are what he is naturally inclined to play with, since he's around girls' toys at my parents belonging to my niece and shows no interest in those. So it isn't that I have brainwashed him or never exposed him-- he just IS interested in toys geared towards little boys.... because he IS a little boy. 

I don't see why some people can't grasp the fact that it's OK to be a "stereotypical" boy or girl. Or even a "stereotypical" SAHM who has a DP that works and is the breadwinner. The vast majority of household setups with two parents have Dad as FT worker and breadwinner, and Mum a SAHM or working less hours and taking on more of the childcare. And what exactly is wrong with that, if that's how these families (like mine) are happiest?

Yes, I do believe women's brains are different to men's in regards to childcare. Otherwise, why do we have a womb with which to carry children? Why do we have breasts to feed them? I don't see how we can argue that childcare is by default designed for women, when we gestate and feed them with our own bodies. I really don't see what's offensive about our "cute little brains" being meant for that?

By the same token, a man is far more likely to become distressed or even angry around a crying newborn than a woman, and he is also less likely to be able to tell his own crying infant from another than a woman is. There is a reason why shaken baby syndrome is committed far more by men than women. Men are more likely to lose their grip faster than a woman when faced with an inconsolable baby that has been screaming for hours. Women are better equpped physically and mentally to tend to an infant. 

And I don't understand how anyone is saying it isn't a fact that men and women are programmed in different ways. Where am I getting these facts? Um, we have breasts, vaginas, other stuff that suggests we don't have a penis and scrotum... I don't know... lol? 

Men use different areas of their brains for certain tasks, don't use as much of some areas as what women do given certain tasks.. and these facts are known by brain scans showing the difference in these areas lighting up differently in the same situations. What other evidence do I need to back up that we are different? 

As I said. I'm all for equality and feminism and choice. But biology still exists no matter what choices we are given in life. Sometimes it does matter. I'm not going to make my boy play with dolls and dress in pink if he doesn't want to to get him to accept that everyone's different. I can simply tell him that without having to put it into practice.


----------



## Tacey

My feeling on it is that gender is a continuum, and you have very masculine men at one end, and very feminine women at the other. There's a great deal of overlap in the middle. I think society prefers that we fit neatly into into diametrically opposed groups. That's the message our children receive every day. By three years old, most children seem to 'know' that pink is for girls and blue is for boys. What has colour got to do with gender identity? It's a social construct, and as has been mentioned, not a very old one at that! If they are picking up clues about what they should and shouldn't like in terms of colour, what other messages are they receiving about how they should act? I'm certainly not saying that there is no such thing as gender, and I would say that issues like GID prove that. I think our over emphasis on difference makes it harder for all children, especially those with GID, when they step outside society's norms.

I want to offer my children a different perspective, so that they know that in my eyes, they can choose whatever they want.


----------



## hayz_baby

I try not to worry about being gender specific.. I honestly believe it isn't in what we put our children in clothes wise or toys that will define them but the actions and the way we act towards sex that will define them. Lo wears boys clothes and has a variety of toys he can play an do what he wants but I don't worry or take it on too much.. 
At the end of the day he see myself going out to wok and being the breadwinner ad my ohstaying at home looking after him.. He sees oh in the kitchen cooking not me (I really really can't cook!!) it's actions like this that will define him more then "I'm going to buy him a pink top and he can grow his hair and have pigtails because he shouldn't be confined the gender constraints" 
It's the actions that will make he difference.. 
Is my son gender specific? Yes he is if he wants something diff when he's older.. Fine by me 
I buy him cars coz he shows no interest in dolls so I won't buy them


----------

