# Have any of you ever experienced Tail End Brown Bleeding?



## tryfor2

I've just had it for the first time. At first I thought nothing of it--just old blood, I assumed, but then it continued for three days. VERY strange for me. My flow is always red. Add to that the mild uterine cramps I've been having daily for two entire cycles, and I'm concerned. I googled it and apparently spotting brown for the last few days of your period can be normal if you have it routinely, but if not... it ain't good. Apparently this TEBB can be indicative of anything from low progesterone/LPD to infection to perimenopause to endometriosis to PCOS, even possibly cervical cancer! Especially if present with other symptoms. While I don't actually think I have cancer (God, I hope not), I am worried, if only for what this means for my fertility. So my question is, if you've ever had TEBB (and it isn't a routine occurrence for you), what was the end result? Don't worry about sharing anything negative. I am asking this because I see my nurse-practitioner tomorrow and she tends to be dismissive so I want to ensure I ask the right questions.


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## Solstyce

tryfor2 said:


> I've just had it for the first time. At first I thought nothing of it--just old blood, I assumed, but then it continued for three days. VERY strange for me. My flow is always red. Add to that the mild uterine cramps I've been having daily for two entire cycles, and I'm concerned. I googled it and apparently spotting brown for the last few days of your period can be normal if you have it routinely, but if not... it ain't good. Apparently this TEBB can be indicative of anything from low progesterone/LPD to infection to perimenopause to endometriosis to PCOS, even possibly cervical cancer! Especially if present with other symptoms. While I don't actually think I have cancer (God, I hope not), I am worried, if only for what this means for my fertility. So my question is, if you've ever had TEBB (and it isn't a routine occurrence for you), what was the end result? Don't worry about sharing anything negative. I am asking this because I see my nurse-practitioner tomorrow and she tends to be dismissive so I want to ensure I ask the right questions.

I have it every month. I spot up until ovulation. Then I have a normal, long luteal phase with no spotting. I must have estrogen problems because it's only during the first half of my cycle that I have the spotting. I've searched and searched but all I can find is info about spotting during the luteal phase.

Oh great I just searched tail end brown bleeding and it says it could be cancer. My mom had uterine cancer in her 40s and had a hysterectomy.


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## tryfor2

Hi Solstyce, Thank you for your reply. I hope I haven't caused you any worry. That Dr. Google gets me every time too. I think they probably have to throw the c-word in there just to protect themselves, but from everything I read, I think TEBB is only cause for concern if it is abnormal for your cycle, which yours isn't. Also, you'd have to have other symptoms as well for it to raise any red flags. I believe it is cervical cancer that CAN be associated with TEBB. As long as your GP or gyno knows your family history and you have routine pap tests, you're probably okay. It is frustrating to have these quirks in our cycles and not know why however. Our bodies are still so mysterious, even in the year 2013!


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## Solstyce

tryfor2 said:


> Hi Solstyce, Thank you for your reply. I hope I haven't caused you any worry. That Dr. Google gets me every time too. I think they probably have to throw the c-word in there just to protect themselves, but from everything I read, I think TEBB is only cause for concern if it is abnormal for your cycle, which yours isn't. Also, you'd have to have other symptoms as well for it to raise any red flags. I believe it is cervical cancer that CAN be associated with TEBB. As long as your GP or gyno knows your family history and you have routine pap tests, you're probably okay. It is frustrating to have these quirks in our cycles and not know why however. Our bodies are still so mysterious, even in the year 2013!

Well if its a sign of cervical cancer then I feel better. I've always had normal paps so I think I am good for now at least!


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## Solstyce

I made a doctor's appointment for next week to ask about the spotting.


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## jen379

Hi ladies! I have a lot of TEBB as well. I guess what I mean by "a lot" is that it last for several days but it is a trace amount. Seeing your post tryfor2, made me wonder about my own body and since I had an appt scheduled w/acupuncturist/naturopath for today, I asked him. His TCM take on it was that it wasn't anything significant, perhaps just an indication of the lining of the uterus (he didn't say good or bad) and that it is engaged in the menses/inflammation process. He said that the important thing is that a woman has a period at least 2-3 days and that the variation in color is just part of the process. 

I don't know if that explanation helps at all. I guess there's no way to tell definitively unless all the tests are done to rule out all the different possibilities. 

Wishing everyone peace as we approach our new cycles this month!!


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## tryfor2

Thanks Jen379--nice to hear from you again! What I take away from what your naturopath said is the fact that TEBB isn't necessarily cause for panic, so thank you for sharing. That makes me feel a lot better.

I thought both you and Solstyce might like to know what my nurse-practitioner said today... Not a heck of a lot, unfortunately. She basically shrugged when I told her about my mild uterine cramps lasting 8 weeks so far, and when I mentioned this first instance of brown spotting at the end of my period she said it wasn't a big deal and that "our periods change at various stages in our lives" and breezed onto the next thing. It was only afterward that I realized she could have been hinting at the approach of menopause (or maybe I'm just reading too much into that). She asked about my bladder and seemed shocked when I said I often go to the bathroom several times an hour. She said that was her main concern. She was going to send me home just with instructions to keep a "urination log" until I mentioned my low BBT and asked if that might indicate hypothyroidism. She said not necessarily, but this did prompt her to pull out a requisition for blood work. Geez, you really have to be your own advocate these days! I don't see her again for two months (unless they find something in my blood). So I didn't get any real answers today, but her lack of concern is a relief. (Hopefully she's not simply being negligent.) I guess I'll just keep TTC and see what my cycle does this month... Please let us know what your dr. says Solstyce. Hope you get more insight than I did!


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## jen379

tryfor2 said:


> Thanks Jen379--nice to hear from you again! What I take away from what your naturopath said is the fact that TEBB isn't necessarily cause for panic, so thank you for sharing. That makes me feel a lot better.
> 
> I thought both you and Solstyce might like to know what my nurse-practitioner said today... Not a heck of a lot, unfortunately. She basically shrugged when I told her about my mild uterine cramps lasting 8 weeks so far, and when I mentioned this first instance of brown spotting at the end of my period she said it wasn't a big deal and that "our periods change at various stages in our lives" and breezed onto the next thing. It was only afterward that I realized she could have been hinting at the approach of menopause (or maybe I'm just reading too much into that). She asked about my bladder and seemed shocked when I said I often go to the bathroom several times an hour. She said that was her main concern. She was going to send me home just with instructions to keep a "urination log" until I mentioned my low BBT and asked if that might indicate hypothyroidism. She said not necessarily, but this did prompt her to pull out a requisition for blood work. Geez, you really have to be your own advocate these days! I don't see her again for two months (unless they find something in my blood). So I didn't get any real answers today, but her lack of concern is a relief. (Hopefully she's not simply being negligent.) I guess I'll just keep TTC and see what my cycle does this month... Please let us know what your dr. says Solstyce. Hope you get more insight than I did!

Hi Ladies! Solstyce, I can definitely see how these symptoms would be on the forefront of your mind. Hang in there and know that we're thinking of you! Please let us know that all is good with you when you find out! :hugs:

Tryfor2, yes, very happy to chat with you again!! Getting to the bottom of these "symptoms" is exhausting, isn't it? Although our bodies are changing, IMHO, I in no way believe that that means your heading into menopause. It's so easy to throw, literally, our emotions into extremes when our bodies won't cooperate. 

I know your NP and MD are way more knowledgeable and I'm in no way trying to diagnose your symptoms but I do wonder (cause I'm crazy like that...) what your symptoms mean in the TCM world. So, the only one I could find so far in my book The Infertility Cure is about a low BBT saying it could be "Insufficient Kidney Yang" and treatment is to "tonify kidney yang with warming herbs like vitex, or chaste tree berry, stimulate acupoint Ki 7, and warm the lower abdomen with a hot water bottle or heating pad." Then I think, if I haven't stuck my neck out too far yet, heating pad (although doesn't say how often or when to apply during cycle) might be easy to try to see if it raises your BBT and even perhaps soothe the cramps, dare I say even the TEBB? I hope I'm not overstepping boundaries. I am the oldest of 4 in a highly dysfunctional family and tend to jump right in to solve problems. Hope I don't offend you in any way! :nope:

Now at this point, you're probably gonna think I'm really crazy when I say this but I've also had issues with frequent urination (how can it be our symptoms so similar?), specifically night urination. I've spent years in a state of irritability because I've had to interrupt my sleep 3-4 times per night to use the potty. Sometimes, even working out would tend to make it worse. Then I get pregnant, start figuring out some health issues, start doing acupuncture, start taking correct vitamins and additional supplements as a result of the pregnancies ending in mc's and things slowly start improving. I'm now able to sleep 5-6 hours without interruption. My acupuncturist says that it's often related to depletion in adrenal glands. Then I think, does it get worse when I work out because perhaps my symptoms is so depleted? So, I'm seeing that I'm strengthening them slowly as I'm improving my overall health with all the efforts combined. 

So, you probably think I am a crazy wack-job!! LOL!! :dohh: Oh, I hope I don't sound like a nut!! If your thyroid comes back good, then could it be that all these symptoms are related?? Wishing you the best and that the test comes back with good news for you! :hugs:


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## tryfor2

Hi Jen379, Lord no! I think you are the furthest thing from a wack-job! I really appreciate you taking the time to look up my symptoms and make those suggestions. The heating pad is pretty innocuous and definitely doable. I've heard the words "vitex" and "chaste berry" thrown around these forums too. I was planning to take B6 this cycle to lengthen my luteal phase but I think I'm going to wait and see what this cycle brings. Having charted just one cycle so far, I don't feel I have enough information yet to take any specific action. Having said all that, I would like to get rid of this TEBB though, so I'll experiment with the heat.

If you don't mind my asking, how long have you had TEBB? How many days do you have it each cycle? 

Funnily enough, I don't get up much to pee at night--usually once at most. The first 6-8 months postpartum were another story; pregnancy really did a number on my bladder and it's still not back to normal. Everybody's different though, so it's hard to know what's "normal" and what isn't. So frustrating. I do need to stay off Google though (but it's so tempting when you want immediate answers!). A few months ago the Internet had me convinced my son was autistic. :wacko: Not fun.


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## jen379

tryfor2 said:


> Hi Jen379, Lord no! I think you are the furthest thing from a wack-job! I really appreciate you taking the time to look up my symptoms and make those suggestions. The heating pad is pretty innocuous and definitely doable. I've heard the words "vitex" and "chaste berry" thrown around these forums too. I was planning to take B6 this cycle to lengthen my luteal phase but I think I'm going to wait and see what this cycle brings. Having charted just one cycle so far, I don't feel I have enough information yet to take any specific action. Having said all that, I would like to get rid of this TEBB though, so I'll experiment with the heat.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking, how long have you had TEBB? How many days do you have it each cycle?
> 
> Funnily enough, I don't get up much to pee at night--usually once at most. The first 6-8 months postpartum were another story; pregnancy really did a number on my bladder and it's still not back to normal. Everybody's different though, so it's hard to know what's "normal" and what isn't. So frustrating. I do need to stay off Google though (but it's so tempting when you want immediate answers!). A few months ago the Internet had me convinced my son was autistic. :wacko: Not fun.

it's usually just a trace amount. this cycle it lasted for 2 days. now that i'm thinking about it, wondering if it's lasting longer with each cycle. i'm really glad you posted this question because i think i need to give this some attention as well. after i posted last previous message, i read that if ttc, to only use heating pad while having period. 

oh yes, google is so very tempting every day. how did people manage before??? some days, i could solve the world's problems from my living room!! LOL!! 

interesting that you're not bothered at night with going to rr. hoping that that is good sign and that you'll good news about that one!! 

someone else i know had twins today...happy for them but geez i just want to have my turn someday. feeling sappy today...or just very tired. some days i don't know the difference. :shrug:


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## tryfor2

Jen, that must be tough, having to smile and congratulate people when they get pregnant and have babies. I can only imagine how difficult that must be. It must seem almost cruel to you that this person was blessed with TWO babies while you're driving yourself crazy trying to have just one. I can't pretend to know how this feels, however I do know I've felt a stab of envy whenever I've heard of someone's pregnancy news ever since I gave birth. Which, I guess, proves that I've genuinely wanted a second child ever since I birthed my current one. It's ridiculous of course--doesn't make sense--how could I envy a newly pregnancy woman when I've just had one of my own? Heck, when I'm still bleeding and can't yet walk without pain? But I did. And do, especially now that I'm TTC. So I get it--and I don't get it. No one can, unless she lives it. I'm sorry you have to be living this.

Having said all that, you will have your turn someday, I know it. You'll have your chance to feel the warm, dense weight of a child--YOUR child--in your arms, and because it's been so long in coming, it will be all the sweeter.


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## Solstyce

I stopped BCP in March 2013. After my first period, I had 2 days of tail end bleeding. It seems to have steadily increased. This month, I had 8 days of TEBB. I am past ovulation, and I haven't spotted in a few days. My TEBB always seems to last from the last day of my period until I ovulate and then it is gone. I have a great LP of around 14 days with no spotting. 

I am just wondering if maybe I have issues with my lining and that's why I haven't gotten pregnant yet.


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## jen379

i think for my peace of mind, i may call the Dr just to ask about this TEBB. I can't stop thinking about it and wondering what it means. i did google it (tryfor2 i'm addicted! lol!!) and it seems several explanations address either low progesterone or an infection. However, if it was an infection wouldn't we all be running a temperature??????? My husband thinks I like to borrow trouble thinking about all this stuff.


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## jen379

tryfor2 said:


> Jen, that must be tough, having to smile and congratulate people when they get pregnant and have babies. I can only imagine how difficult that must be. It must seem almost cruel to you that this person was blessed with TWO babies while you're driving yourself crazy trying to have just one. I can't pretend to know how this feels, however I do know I've felt a stab of envy whenever I've heard of someone's pregnancy news ever since I gave birth. Which, I guess, proves that I've genuinely wanted a second child ever since I birthed my current one. It's ridiculous of course--doesn't make sense--how could I envy a newly pregnancy woman when I've just had one of my own? Heck, when I'm still bleeding and can't yet walk without pain? But I did. And do, especially now that I'm TTC. So I get it--and I don't get it. No one can, unless she lives it. I'm sorry you have to be living this.
> 
> Having said all that, you will have your turn someday, I know it. You'll have your chance to feel the warm, dense weight of a child--YOUR child--in your arms, and because it's been so long in coming, it will be all the sweeter.

Hi Try! hearing you say that you were envious of other newly pregnant moms def sounds as though it was such a wonderful experience that you def wanted another child. to someone who hasn't been through all of that, it's reassuring to know that it is that level of wonderful, in spite of all the horror stories about labor that i always, always hear about. :wacko:


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## tryfor2

Solstyce said:


> I stopped BCP in March 2013. After my firt period, I had 2 days of tail end bleeding. It seems to have steadily increased. This month, I had 8 days of TEBB. I am past ovulation, and I haven't spotted in a few days. My TEBB always seems to last from the last day of my period until I ovulate and then it is gone. I have a great LP of around 14 days with no spotting.
> 
> I am just wondering if maybe I have issues with my lining and that's why I haven't gotten pregnant yet.

Hmm, that's curious. I am the furthest thing from an expert, but from what I've read TEBB is often an indicator of low progesterone/luteal phase defect, but with your perfect 14-day LP, that obviously isn't the issue. I'm anxious to hear what your dr. says. Eight days of TEBB--on top of your period--is a long time. And that's a lot of blood to lose, even if the brown stuff doesn't amount to much. When was the last time you had your iron level checked? My dr. said anemia can really wreak havoc on your system. Who knows, that might be a factor (though I say that with ZERO medical training). Pls. update us after your appointment!


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## tryfor2

jen379 said:


> tryfor2 said:
> 
> 
> Jen, that must be tough, having to smile and congratulate people when they get pregnant and have babies. I can only imagine how difficult that must be. It must seem almost cruel to you that this person was blessed with TWO babies while you're driving yourself crazy trying to have just one. I can't pretend to know how this feels, however I do know I've felt a stab of envy whenever I've heard of someone's pregnancy news ever since I gave birth. Which, I guess, proves that I've genuinely wanted a second child ever since I birthed my current one. It's ridiculous of course--doesn't make sense--how could I envy a newly pregnancy woman when I've just had one of my own? Heck, when I'm still bleeding and can't yet walk without pain? But I did. And do, especially now that I'm TTC. So I get it--and I don't get it. No one can, unless she lives it. I'm sorry you have to be living this.
> 
> Having said all that, you will have your turn someday, I know it. You'll have your chance to feel the warm, dense weight of a child--YOUR child--in your arms, and because it's been so long in coming, it will be all the sweeter.
> 
> Hi Try! hearing you say that you were envious of other newly pregnant moms def sounds as though it was such a wonderful experience that you def wanted another child. to someone who hasn't been through all of that, it's reassuring to know that it is that level of wonderful, in spite of all the horror stories about labor that i always, always hear about. :wacko:Click to expand...

I'm thinking it indicates I simply love being a mother (and really love my son) because my pregnancy was pretty tough and I had an awful labour and delivery. It really is as gruesome and barbaric as they say. And the pain was so. Much. Worse. The drugs didn't totally work for me--anyway, I won't get into it here. Some women do in fact LOVE being pregnant and even have somewhat enjoyable deliveries. I'm just not one of them! 

Obviously, it's all worth it for the end result, but if I could sidestep it, I would. So rest assured that if by chance you don't end up bringing a child into the world yourself, you really aren't missing much. Well, actually, you are, but it's stuff like the worst pain you've ever experienced, a total loss of dignity--stuff like that!


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## tryfor2

jen379 said:


> i think for my peace of mind, i may call the Dr just to ask about this TEBB. I can't stop thinking about it and wondering what it means. i did google it (tryfor2 i'm addicted! lol!!) and it seems several explanations address either low progesterone or an infection. However, if it was an infection wouldn't we all be running a temperature??????? My husband thinks I like to borrow trouble thinking about all this stuff.

Oh no, I've created a monster! :haha: It definitely wasn't my intent to throw something else out there for us all to obsess over. Yeah, the Internet is pretty hard to resist in this age of information at our fingertips. If you're anything like me Jen, you keep reading until you either get your questions answered or are reassured. With all the contradictory stuff floating around cyberspace, usually neither happens and I end up pouring hours of my life into google searches. :dohh: Yes, most sources site the low progesterone/LPD or a very low-grade infection (maybe the fever isn't present bc it's low-grade? Do fevers always accompany infections? I don't recall having fevers with my last few ear infections). I didn't mention these things to my nurse-practitioner, but now wish I had. The only good thing about you getting obsessed with this it that with your savvy we may just get to the bottom of this! (That's my selfish side talking.)

My husband thinks I'm a nutter too. The other night he was actually like "Step away from the computer..." Keep us updated please!!


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## jen379

Hi try, how are things going? I wanted to check in with you on this TEBB and in general see how you are doing. 

AF came for me this past wkend and used the heating pad and it seemed to have improved a little. I didn't remember to use it until the last day but the TEBB has decreased for sure. I hope to remember to use it more the next time. I also just purchased some castor oil kit to lay on abdomen to increase circulation and such. I hope this will help. I will def let you know. 

How are things going with you?


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## tryfor2

Hey Jen! Thanks for checking in! I'm doing well considering this wacky cycle I'm in. In addition to the TEBB at the outset, I had mid cycle bleeding (brown and red--sorry TMI) which did NOT correspond with ovulation (Ive also never gad it before). I thought I was having an anovulatory cycle when it looks like I finally did o on CD 26! So now I'm just a sitting duck here at 10 DPO, waiting for AF. Tested this am--BFN. Not surprised. Didn't get + opk at all this cycle so didn't time BD well etc. LP was 11days last month so expecting AF on Friday. Really hoping it doesn't come sooner! Am thinking I might have low thyroid function (despite having just been tested, though I don't know the details) bc my BBT is really low, I have multiple patches of EWCM and sometimes long cycles (today is CD 36). I sense I'll have to fight my dr to get further testing but from what I hear, thyroid problems can really mess with your fertility.

Yes, please let me know how you get on with the heat and castor oil. I plan to try that (thanks again for the tip). Anything to avoid getting pumped full of drugs. I'm thinking I will try TCM soon, as it prob takes a few cycles to see improvement. If I have to pay someone to treat me holistically then so be it! (Though I say that now, before the bills come rolling in!!) keep me updated!


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## jen379

tryfor2 said:


> Hey Jen! Thanks for checking in! I'm doing well considering this wacky cycle I'm in. In addition to the TEBB at the outset, I had mid cycle bleeding (brown and red--sorry TMI) which did NOT correspond with ovulation (Ive also never gad it before). I thought I was having an anovulatory cycle when it looks like I finally did o on CD 26! So now I'm just a sitting duck here at 10 DPO, waiting for AF. Tested this am--BFN. Not surprised. Didn't get + opk at all this cycle so didn't time BD well etc. LP was 11days last month so expecting AF on Friday. Really hoping it doesn't come sooner! Am thinking I might have low thyroid function (despite having just been tested, though I don't know the details) bc my BBT is really low, I have multiple patches of EWCM and sometimes long cycles (today is CD 36). I sense I'll have to fight my dr to get further testing but from what I hear, thyroid problems can really mess with your fertility.
> 
> Yes, please let me know how you get on with the heat and castor oil. I plan to try that (thanks again for the tip). Anything to avoid getting pumped full of drugs. I'm thinking I will try TCM soon, as it prob takes a few cycles to see improvement. If I have to pay someone to treat me holistically then so be it! (Though I say that now, before the bills come rolling in!!) keep me updated!

i'm sorry to hear what you're going through. i don't know anything about thyroid issues. there is a thread on "acupuncture" and a couple of ladies that do acupuncture who might be able to offer you some guidance, esp on the mid cycle bleeding. imho, i think TCM is worth looking into if it resolves the thyroid issue and gets you baby #2!!!

i'm curious what the holistic costs are in canada vs here in states. i pay about $85/treatment but he only wants me to come 2 during cycle. if it were more i probably couldn't afford it. i just wish it would do the trick. i'm months from being 43 and really starting to feel like this is a lost cause. i hate to be pessimistic and can't fathom quitting anything but i guess i should just get real about this being my life. this might be the best it's going to get. talked to my DH about adopting privately and how to finance it and we got into a huge fight. i hate $ issues. we both want to adopt we just don't agree on how to pay for it. i need to win the lottery...for real! if i can't make a baby naturally, shouldn't i get to have something!!!! lol!!!! story of my life!!! i'm venting too much. sorry:blush:


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## jen379

"chinese acupuncture" thread, sorry.


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## tryfor2

I've looked into only one naturopath so far and the initial consult runs $135+tax and acupuncture $55 per session. Follow up consults are $75. I see how it could get pricey pretty fast. I doubt my private health insurance through DH's work would cover any of it. Yes, I'll have to check out that thread.
Wouldn't life be so much easier if so much didn't hinge on money? No, money can buy happiness but it can kill stress, which can help with happiness! I've heard private adoption runs around 15K in these parts. Yikes. I know I don't have access to that kind of cash. Money fights are the worst. It's hard on a marriage/ relationship. I've had times in my life whereI had very little money and I can recall the anxiety. Interest rates are still low right now, could you get a loan or line of credit? What about remortgaging your house? Not my business, obviously--just throwing out options, though I'm sure you've already considered those things. It is so unfair. The filthy rich lady can get pg no problem and you who isn't necessarily swimming in cash may need it to get to your goal of parenthood. The inequity stuns me. You seem like such a nice, caring person, Jen. I am sure you will be a wonderful mum. I really wish I could just wave my wand and make you pregnant. I really, really do.
I believe it will happen for you, some how, some way. It just might take longer and be tougher than you anticipated. Though I hope it happens for you ASAP. You've been patient long enough.
Gosh, vent all you want--that's what this is for. Just know I'm here rooting for ya!!!:happydance:


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## jen379

tryfor2 said:


> I've looked into only one naturopath so far and the initial consult runs $135+tax and acupuncture $55 per session. Follow up consults are $75. I see how it could get pricey pretty fast. I doubt my private health insurance through DH's work would cover any of it. Yes, I'll have to check out that thread.
> Wouldn't life be so much easier if so much didn't hinge on money? No, money can buy happiness but it can kill stress, which can help with happiness! I've heard private adoption runs around 15K in these parts. Yikes. I know I don't have access to that kind of cash. Money fights are the worst. It's hard on a marriage/ relationship. I've had times in my life whereI had very little money and I can recall the anxiety. Interest rates are still low right now, could you get a loan or line of credit? What about remortgaging your house? Not my business, obviously--just throwing out options, though I'm sure you've already considered those things. It is so unfair. The filthy rich lady can get pg no problem and you who isn't necessarily swimming in cash may need it to get to your goal of parenthood. The inequity stuns me. You seem like such a nice, caring person, Jen. I am sure you will be a wonderful mum. I really wish I could just wave my wand and make you pregnant. I really, really do.
> I believe it will happen for you, some how, some way. It just might take longer and be tougher than you anticipated. Though I hope it happens for you ASAP. You've been patient long enough.
> Gosh, vent all you want--that's what this is for. Just know I'm here rooting for ya!!!:happydance:

Well, I def like the Canadian prices. Every little bit helps. I so wish priv insurance would cover holistic treatments. It is equally as valuable. In some situations, even better, as it can be preventative. 

Thank you for saying I'd be a good mum. We all have our demons and then when you don't get what you want, you wonder if it's because it wouldn't be good at it...you know, you're mind plays that whole game. You always feel like "grass is greener" at your neighbors but I do have a good life. Ideally, with the $$, I don't like to have any debt so it worries me to borrow the money for adoption and I can't seem to save the money fast enough. We'll just make it meet in the middle...a little of this and a little of that. It will all work out and I have to tell myself that everyday to make sure the mind knows it. 

Is it possible for you to get the details on your thyroid test so you can do some research? maybe take info to naturopath? along with all the good charting you've done I bet it wouldn't take long for the to balance out your cycles and be on your way to cutie #2!!!!!!!!!


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## tryfor2

Good idea re: getting thyroid test specifics to give to naturopath. I see my np twice next month--once for my son and once for me, so hopefully I can get the info out of her at one of those times.

Money money money... Always stands in the way of something. I'm sure you will figure something out. Where there's a will there's a way. I hear you on the no debt thing but even if you had to borrow a little, a child is the best justification in the world! (Just wait till you get to the baby gear buying stage....!)


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## jen379

we will def figure it out. i just can't imagine living the rest of my life without having a little one. i talked to a new adoption agency today, where the woman who found it has 5 adoptive children of her own. i'm really excited about meeting with her probably early next yr. i will give it a few more months and then move on the next chapter. 

on the other hand, i got my castor oil in the mail today and will start that tomorrow. excited to see if it helps with my period, circulation, etc. i feel like i'm always starting something new and hanging my hopes on it. just the way this process has been for me.


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## tryfor2

That's awesome! Our children don't always come to us the traditional way. And hey, there are some definite upsides to sidestepping the whole pregnancy/childbirth/postpartum recovery thing (the latter can really detract from learning to be a parent, even without having a c-section), so there is that to keep in mind if you do end up taking the adoption route to parenthood!
Totally get pinning your hopes on a new product--or for me, often a new tidbit I read online that makes my hope soar. Just the other day, for about the first 8-10 hours of AF (yeah, she got me) I had myself convinced it was implantation bleeding. Not bc I was in denial about getting my period but bc the bleeding was spotty and started and then totally stopped. The good ol' Internet seemed to only feed my hope and then when the bleeding finally resumed I was gutted. Oh the tricks our bodies (and minds) can play on us. But hey, if castor oil helps you stay positive and gets you through another cycle, then why not? Even if it doesn't work in the end. There is something to be said for the placebo effect....:winkwink:


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## Briss

tryfor, i'm really glad you posted this question because it's been bothering me for some time now.

I had TEBB in the past, following a pregnancy termination I had some complications and developed TEBB. my normal AF is 6 days and usually last couple of days is brown. TEBB started from Cd 6 to Cd9. it went on for 3 years and then resolved on its own. I also started doing lots of sport and I noticed if I run on Cd5 and 6 it was more likely that I wont spot after that. It almost felt like intensive sport was cleaning out my uterus. TEBB came back last year after I had lap/hysteroscopy. It was on and off but much less than before just for 1 day. I just had a failed IVF cycle and was on low doses of menopur and I spotted until CD9 again, it could have been the result of the meds. This cycle after the IVf which ended in chemical I am on CD 10 and still have a tiny amount of brown spotting and my temp is unusually high for pre-O levels, although my Cd3 bloods were normal. It's really annoying cos I ovulate early and should be having my EWCM by now. spotting is not really great environment for sperm to survive. also I had a scan on CD 5 and they saw a small cyst on my cervix. am really getting worried now. I never had cervical cyst before IVf. I did my smear test last year and it was normal. I did TCM for almost a year but it did not help with TEBB. 

Solstyce, can you please share what your doc says about spotting? I am going to make an appointment myself this week. 

tryfor, I agree going to the bathroom several times an hour seems very often. Do you drink a lot?


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## Briss

I did a bit of googling trying to identify possible reasons for TEBB:

1.	infection/endometritis. "in women who have tail-end brown bleeding, we are in the process of evaluating a large number of patients and have found that chronic endometritis appears to be one of the main causes. This is identified by the presence of micropolyps and endometrial stippling in the endometrial cavity discovered at the time of hysteroscopy. In many cases, the use of antibiotics can be helpful in eliminating this discharge pattern." https://www.fertilitycare.net/documents/APM174-2-Hilgers.pdf I recall there was some suggestion in the past that I might have endometritis but it was never confirmed. I also had hysteroscopy and they did not mention endometritis in the report or biopsy. I wonder now if they missed it?

2.	low progesterone. "According to the Creighton Model Fertility Care System, TEBB at the end of your period is the result of an irregular sloughing of the lining of the uterus and is due to low progesterone levels during the previous cycle. Usually this can be fixed by taking oral progesterone on the previous cycle." &#8211; I doubt it cos I was taking lots of progesterone last cycle as part of IVF and checked my progesterone levels which were high.

3.	a dysfunction in how progesterone drops off at the end of your cycle. I did CD 3 bloods and progesterone dropped so it cant be that. 

4.	endo. I had lap and they did not find any endo. 

5.	old blood that gets stuck hanging around. could be and it will explain why exercise used to help. 

I also noticed that some refer to TEBB as something that happens at the tail end of your cycle but before you get a full flow AF but that's not what I mean (mine is after AF not before) so some of the things above might be more relevant for pre-AF spotting, really hard to say. very confusing.


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## jen379

hi Briss, i discussed with my acup/naturopath again on Fri and says that the blood can become oxidized within an hour and really not a huge area of concern. just depends on pace of the flow of each individuals' period. 

i will say mine was less when i used a heating pad during AF. 

IMHO, makes total sense that exercise helps--keeps everything moving, circulating. 

hope this helps a little so you don't stress. none of us needs any of that!


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## tryfor2

Wow, thanks for all your sleuthing Briss, and for posting your findings here. It's annoying how mysterious our bodies still are at this point in civilization. You're right--what I mean is classic TEBB, that is, at the end of your PERIOD, not your cycle. I guess it freaked me out bc I'd not had that before and anything unfamiliar can be a problem (esp when you read scary stuff online!). I haven't been back to my NP so I appreciate hearing what other medical people have to say (thanks for sharing your naturopath's thoughts Jen). 

That's an interesting hypothesis about exercise cleaning you out. Perhaps I should get off my butt a little more! Though with a toddler I don't have many occasions to sit still!

To answer your question, I'd say I USED to drink a lot (and thus went to the bathroom a lot). Now, being so busy (read distracted) I'm sure I don't drink enough, yet I use the bathroom just as often, if not more. I think my bladder was damaged in childbirth (I pushed for nearly 5 hours and my son had a giant head--relatively). I had some issues with slight incontinence for about a year afterwards and for many months had trouble feeling when I had to go and then suddenly felt great urgency. Bc of that, I think I now go as soon as I feel the slightest sense of needing to, which I suspect has changed how my bladder gauges fullness--if that makes any sense at all. Sorry--I'm sure you didn't want to know this much about my bladder!!

I'm at the end of AF (day 5) and no sign of TEBB yet, so I'm pleased and hopeful, though this has been an odd period too--very light, though I think I'm past trying to convince myself it's implantation bleeding!:haha:

I wonder if my progesterone is a little low.... My BBT is very low (often under 97.0 in FP and 97.7 and under in LP) and my LP is just 11days. I'm hoping my NP will do some hormonal testing, though she may make me wait till we've been TTC 6 months (standard in Canada if you're 35+).

I am sorry to hear of your troubles. Gosh, I find it shocking what some people are put through to get a child. It's so unfair that it is so hard for some and so easy for others. I can't imagine what many of the women on here have been through--and willingly subject themselves to! They are obviously made of hardier stock than I! Thanks again for the info.


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## Briss

Been to gyno today. She could not say why I started spotting after AF, there only way to find out is to do another hysteroscopy with biopsy but considering we are TTC this is just not worth it. She did not seem to worry about it at all. She gave me antibiotics just in case it's endometritis but she did not think so and it may not resolve the issue so up to me if I want to take them. Overall she said everything is in order I just need to get pregnant. It was reassuring that she did not see TEBB as a big deal that can prevent me from getting pregnant. I hope she is right


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## tryfor2

Briss said:


> Been to gyno today. She could not say why I started spotting after AF, there only way to find out is to do another hysteroscopy with biopsy but considering we are TTC this is just not worth it. She did not seem to worry about it at all. She gave me antibiotics just in case it's endometritis but she did not think so and it may not resolve the issue so up to me if I want to take them. Overall she said everything is in order I just need to get pregnant. It was reassuring that she did not see TEBB as a big deal that can prevent me from getting pregnant. I hope she is right

That's good news. I always find it relieving when doctors aren't concerned about things, but on the other hand I sometimes get my back up thinking "well, it's easy for you to say. It's not YOUR body." Thanks for sharing what she said.


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## Solstyce

I just started Fibrovan on the advice of a co-worker. It's supposed to help with Endometriosis, Fibroids, and it claims to also help with blocked tubes. I also started using DIM to see if maybe too much estrogen is my problem.

I spot every day from the day my period ends through ovulation. Then the spotting stops until I get my period 14 days later. I have a great luteal phase of 14 days. I can't figure out why I spot only during the first 2 weeks of my cycle.

I read a book called The Infertility Cure, and for endometriosis and other blood problems it recommends exercise, using a hot water bottle, using pads instead of tampons, and not BDing during your period. So I am trying all of those things to see if that helps with the spotting.


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## tryfor2

Thanks Solstyce. That's some helpful info. Actually, I used mostly pads this last period and had next to no brown blood--certainly none at the end. Since brown blood is "older" blood I assumed pads might be a better idea. And I used a heating pad. So for ME, those things worked this cycle. We'll see what transpires next cycle--I'd really like to go back to tampons--though ideally my next period won't show for a good nine months or so! 

Thanks for the update. Let us know if you have any luck with these things.


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