# Lotus Birth Support Thread



## Sam Pearson

With so much interest in this topic and it coming up in so many threads I thought it would be good to have a support thread on Lotus Birth.

It's not hard to do but you do need to be aware of how to treat the placenta to ensure it dries out and doesn't rot.

I've had mixed reactions. Some people have found the idea really gross (like my 9yo son) but once they see it in action they soon realise that it's a lovely way to honour the baby. My Dad doesn't concern himself with "women's business" and simply said, "Well, if it's natural it must be okay". My Mum was appauled and refused to visit the baby until she had been Lotus Born. My doctor was curious and asked me to explain and to him I said "Imagine if you had a patient who presented with a body part that was going to die and dry up and fall off all on it's own within a week would you amputate or tell them to go home and wait for it to fall off?" and he said he would not amputate.

For my family the impact of our daughter's lotus birth has been far reaching. At times when I feel I am too focused on the next stage rather than enjoying the moment with my baby I recall her Lotus Birth and that time of just holding the birth space for her as she transitioned and remember that she has her own individual time table and everything will happen for her exactly when it should. I am generally more paitent than I was previously and can allow things to happen in their own time without any sense of needing to rush on to the next phase. Our Lotus Born daughter has selective mutism and didn't speak in public until she was 4yo - I would recall her Lotus Birth and rather than do everything I could to try to force her to talk I was able to allow her time and in time she did begin speaking when she was ready. 

I've met so many friends I may not have...beautiful pregnant women who have asked me to help them learn about Lotus Birthing. My daughter feels her birth was special and was very fond of her placenta and enjoyed holding a little ceremony at her weaning party where she buried her placenta with a few friends witnessing. My OH who has always had amazing faith in my body's ability to grow and birth and feed our babies found he was even more amazed at how fantastic natural uninhindered birth can be. Our son who was at first appauled at the idea got up close and personal with the placenta and found it facinating and he was proud to be the one to tend his sister's placenta until it detached.

I'm going to post an article I wrote about Lotus Birth and also my daughter's Lotus Birth story. It would be great if other people would add their own Lotus Birth stories to this thread.


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## Sam Pearson

LOTUS BIRTH &#8211; A GENTLE BEGINNING by Samantha Pearson

Lotus Birth is the practice of leaving the umbilical cord uncut after the third stage of labour so that the baby remains attached to both cord and placenta until they naturally separate from the umbilicus. This practice, named after the woman who brought it to the western world, Clare Lotus Day, is sometimes referred to as fourth stage of labour, non-severance or second birth. 

Lotus Birth is practiced by some Indigenous Australian tribes, Balinese, the Kung tribe in Africa and occurs in some parts of Russia and India. Early American pioneers, in written diaries and letters, reported practicing nonseverance of the umbilicus as a preventative measure to protect the infant from an open wound infection. Some species of monkey also do not sever their baby&#8217;s cords. However, cutting a baby&#8217;s cord once the placenta has been birthed is a widespread and ancient practice. Lotus Birth is a new tradition in the western world, and while uncommon is becoming more popular as many parents are returning to natural birth.

In past times there have been some very good reasons for severing a newborn&#8217;s cord. It was essential from a survival perspective to avoid attracting predators, so placentas along with all other traces of birth were quickly removed. This also meant that a new mother was more mobile in the event that she did have to flee from a predator.

Another reason for cutting the cord was hygiene. When living in isolated tribal situations, new mothers and their babies were vulnerable to infection. Eventually, humans began living in larger communities; however, it was some time before large populations were managed hygienically. Today, unless you are living in unclean conditions, and particularly if you are birthing at home amongst familiar germs, infection need not be of concern. When a cord is cut, an opportunity for infection is created. While this risk is very small it is completely avoidable with a Lotus Birth. 

A further reason we traditionally cut babies cords is due to cultural practices, throughout history, such as not allowing a baby to take colostrum, binding a baby, early weaning and cutting cords, intentionally interfered with the early mother/infant attachment. These detached practices previously served the purpose of creating more aggressive people and, therefore, superior warriors. This was advantageous when conquering the natural world and other tribes, and meant survival of ones own group of people. 

Lotus birth slows down the processes in the after birth period, drawing focus on the needs of the baby, allowing bonding, intimacy and integration to occur. Lotus Birth is often seen as a way of prolonging the birth of the baby, extending their transition into our world in order to make it as gentle and gradual as possible. Lotus born babies will sometimes show through their body language that they are aware when their placenta is touched. Parents report that their Lotus babies are more serene than most newborns and notice a definite change in their demeanour when their cords detach. Some cultures believe that energy passes between the baby and its placenta long after the placenta has ceased to be a functioning organ. 

No matter what significance the parents see in leaving the placenta attached it seems that a common impact of Lotus Birth is the difference in the way the baby is treated. 

Today, there are no medical or cultural reasons for cutting a baby&#8217;s cord. Due to changes in our cultural and societal imperatives it can now be said that for the future preservation of our species and planet it is sensitive rather than aggressive people that are needed. We are learning that a close attachment with our parents as a child is vital if we want to raise adults who honour their natural instincts and who care for others and our planet. One way we can achieve this is by abandoning past detached parenting practices and embracing gentle ways of life. As life starts with birth the best way of making changes towards a more nurturing world is by beginning with the most gentle of births and continuing with the most attached and gentle parenting.

PHYSIOLOGICAL BENEFITS OF DELAYED CORD CUTTING:
&#8226;	Maximum maternal antibodies are received by infant.
&#8226;	The baby receives full benefits from the placental blood including platelets that clot the blood, plasma (proteins of the blood), white cells to fight infections, red cells that have iron and carry oxygen to all cells, stem cells that replace worn out cells, hormones and enzymes and iron reserves. The deeper vein remains open and it is believed that the baby's body closes the umbilical vein when the baby's blood volume has reached the right levels.
&#8226;	Less Respiratory Distress Syndrome (RDS), especially in premature infants.
&#8226;	Less chance of infant brain damage (i.e., cerebral palsy, schizophrenia, autism).
&#8226;	Higher infant blood pressure.
&#8226;	Less need for blood transfusions for premature infants.
&#8226;	Less chance of organ damage from schema in premature babies.
&#8226;	Improved infant renal (kidney) function.
&#8226;	No need to clamp before cutting because all the vessels have closed naturally.

SOME REASONS PARENTS CHOOSE A LOTUS BIRTH:
&#8226;	Improved breastfeeding success rate.
&#8226;	Possible faster healing of the umbilicus.
&#8226;	To avoid unnecessary risk of cord infection.
&#8226;	Personal preference for a completely natural intervention-free birth.
&#8226;	No need to worry about clamping or cutting the cord.
&#8226;	Respect for the baby and placenta/spiritual reasons.
&#8226;	Encourages maximum mother/baby bonding.
&#8226;	Limits visitors who may prefer to wait until the cord separates.
&#8226;	To promote mother/baby attachment, less passing around of the baby.
&#8226;	To allow the most gradual and peaceful transition into this world for the baby.
&#8226;	Baby and mother get maximum rest in the quiet still environment.

WHO CAN HAVE A LOTUS BIRTH?

Nearly everyone can have a Lotus Birth if desired. The only medical reason for cutting a baby&#8217;s cord is if the cord has torn or the placenta has been damaged during a c-section. Whether you are having a homebirth or a hospital birth you have the right to insist that the cord not be severed. Caesarean section babies can be removed from the womb with their umbilical cords and placentas intact and unclamped.


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## Sam Pearson

CARE FOR THE PLACENTA AND CORD DURING A LOTUS BIRTH by Samantha Pearson

After the placenta is birthed it is inspected as usual to check that is it intact. Care must be taken to keep the placenta fairly level with the baby for several minutes after the cord has stopped pulsing to allow the Wharton&#8217;s jelly to solidify and blood transfusion to cease. 

The placenta should be drained for the first 24 hours in a sieve over a stable bowl kept close to the baby. After this the placenta should be washed in luke warm water. Ensure all blood clots are thoroughly removed then gently pat dry the placenta.

At this stage the placenta can simply be placed on a clean cloth and left to air dry naturally. Often, the placenta is packed with salt to facilitate the drying process. In addition essential oils and dried herbs/flowers can also be applied to aid preservation. A cloth of breathable fabric can be used to contain any salt/herbs/flowers/oils in place. Both cloth and salt/herbs should be refreshed daily. The wrapped placenta may be kept in a placenta bag made especially for the purpose. The placenta will become drier, smaller and lighter every day and the cord will become brittle until it falls off naturally. 

Care should be taken to ensure the placenta remains close to the baby to avoid tugging on the cord. When feeding or cuddling your baby ensure the placenta is carefully placed to avoid it slipping. Babies appear to be sensitive to when their placentas and cords are being touched. It is important to treat placentas gently and remember to create a peaceful environment during this time of transition.

The mother can care for the placenta herself, or if she prefers or is unable to care for it, this role can be taken by the father, doula or other support person. 

LOTUS BIRTH EQUIPMENT

Supplies for a Lotus Birth are very straight forward and what you have on hand in your own home will suffice. A common supply list would include:

1. A large bowl to birth the placenta in.
2. A large sieve to strain the placenta for the fist 24 hours.
3. An absorbent cloth to place placenta on or wrap the placenta in.
4. Sea salt, dried flowers, dried herbs or essential oils if desired.
5. A placenta bag if desired.

An absorbent placenta wrapping cloth is used to wrap a baby's placenta during a Lotus Birth. It can be made of any breathable fabric and often towelling is used. It serves to absorb fluid and contain any salt, herbs, spices or dried flowers that have been used to pack the placenta to aid the drying process.

Many parents choose to enclose the wrapped placenta in a decorative placenta bag. It can be as simple as a clean pillowslip or a purpose made bag. It must be large enough to contain the fresh placenta including any salt/herbs and wrapping cloths used. It can be made from any breathable fabric and of any design that pleases the mother. Some are very plain and others intricately decorated perhaps with motifs that are symbolic to the baby&#8217;s family. Placenta bags might also be used over and over, shared amongst Lotus Birthing friends, even becoming heirlooms over time. It is best if a non slip fabric is used.

AFTER THE BABY IS LOTUS BORN

The average time for a Lotus Birth baby&#8217;s cord to come off naturally is three to ten days after the birth. Research has found that there is a direct relationship between the time the cord is cut after birth and the number of days it takes for the navel to heal. When the umbilical cord is cut immediately, the average length of time required for the navel to heal is 9.56 days. When cut after the cord stops pulsing it is an average of 7.16 days. When later, as happens in a Lotus Birth, the average time is 3.75 days. 

Personal preference determines what happens to the placenta after it has detached from the baby. Some parents freeze it. It can also be further dried to preserve it indefinitely. To achieve this it can be wrapped in a breathable piece of cloth and placed in an airy spot to dry out naturally, or the process can be hastened by using the sun, an oven or a dehydrator. 

Some families choose to honour the placenta by burying it and often perform a ritual, which may include planting a tree over the placenta. If doing this with a placenta that has been salted it is best to choose a plant species that is tolerant of high levels of salt in the soil such as an Australian native coastal plant.


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## Sam Pearson

*RECOMMENDED RESOURCES:*

*BOOKS:*

Lotus Birth by Shivam Rachana (www.lotusbirth.net)
A Lotus Birth, Jenny Hatchs Pregnancy Journal (www.amazon.com)

*DVDs:
*
Lotus Birth: The Waterbirth of the Malcom Twins (www.lotusbirth.net)

*WEBSITES - ARTICLES:*

The Lotus Birth Campaign
www.lotusbirthcampaign.com

Lotus Birth Frequently Asked Questions
www.lotusfertility.com/Lotus_Birth_Q/Lotus_Birth_QA.html

Natural Lotus Birth
https://eabicbahamas.ning.com/profiles/blogs/natrual-birth-lotus-birth

https://www.placentanetwork.com/placenta/Lotus-Birth.asp

https://bongobaby.myshopify.com/pages/lotus-birth

Lotus Birth - Benefits of Leaving Nature Intact
https://thebasicsofanything.com/lotus-birth-benefits-leaving-nature-intact

Lotus Birth by Lisa Shuring
www.joyousbirth.info/articles/lotus-birth.html

Lotus Birth &#8211; A Ritual For Our Times by Sarah J Buckley
https://www.naturalparenting.com.au/flex/lotus-birth-a-ritual-for-our-times/362/1

*LOTUS BIRTH SUPPLIES*

Lotus Born - Lotus Birth Kits, Placenta Bags, Drying Herbs and Wrapping Cloths
https://www.etsy.com/shop/LotusBorn

Noonee Wilga - Placenta bags
https://www.nooneewilga.com/birthing.html

Right From The Start Store - Custom made Placenta Bags and Cord Covers
https://lotusbirthbags.webs.com/apps/webstore/

*DANGERS OF EARLY CORD CLAMPING*

Birth Injuries Related to Umbilical Cord Clamping
www.cordclamp.org/

*LOTUS BIRTH ART*
https://www.durgabernhard.com/item.php?type=card&id=3

*LOTUS BIRTH AND PLACENTOPHAGY*
https://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=226


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## Sam Pearson

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS by Samantha Pearson

Q: Will the cord or placenta rot or smell bad? 

A: No. So long as you allow the placenta and cord to dehydrate sufficiently it should smell only very faintly and not unpleasant. 
- Care should be taken to thoroughly wash then dry the placenta after the initial draining.
- The placenta should never be placed in an airtight container.
- The placenta should never be wrapped in non breathable fabric. 
- Sea salt can be used to promote dehydration.
- Herbs, flowers and oils can be sprinkled on the placenta to keep it pleasant smelling. 
- Wrappings and salt/herbs/oils should be diligently replenished daily. 

Q: Is it difficult to change baby&#8217;s nappy during a Lotus Birth?

A: No. It is best if baby is dressed in loose clothing/nappies with front fastenings.

Q: Can you bathe baby during a Lotus Birth?

A: Yes. Depending upon the length of your baby&#8217;s cord you may be able to simply keep the placenta close by a baby bath. Some parents float the placenta in a waterproof container such as an ice cream container keeping it close to the baby in the bath. The cord may rehydrate somewhat where it comes into contact with the water and this is okay.

Q: Does the placenta need to be kept on top of baby?

A: No. It is fine to keep the placenta beside the baby, just ensure it is closeby so that the cord is not pulling. When carrying baby you can bundle both baby and placenta up as one. Lotus Born placenta bags are designed so that the drawstrings double as handles for ease of movement.

Q: Can you still eat the placenta (Placentaphagia) if having a Lotus Birth?

A: Yes. Some women do choose to take small portions of the still attached raw placenta after consultation with the baby. It is recommended that this is done within 24 hours of the birth. It is best not to treat the placenta with herbs or salt until you have taken any pieces for consumption

Q: Can you still encapsulate some of the placenta to use in Chinese Medicine?

A: Yes. If you want to dry some of your baby&#8217;s placenta in order to encapsulate it this should be taken within 24 hours of the birth. It is best not to treat the placenta with herbs or salt until you have taken any pieces for consumption.

Q: Does having a Lotus Birth take a lot of time and energy?

A: No. The initial washing, drying, packing and wrapping should take around 10 minutes and after that repacking and wrapping the placenta will take 5-10 minutes or less each day. Depending upon how many absorbent cloths you have you may also need to launder them. 

Q: What if I want to cease the Lotus Birth before the cord detaches?

A: If at any time you are uncomfortable or unsure if the drying process is progressing as it should be there is always the option of severing the cord knowing that your baby has not experienced any of the drawbacks of early cord clamping and severing


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## Sam Pearson

THE LOTUS BIRTH OF AALIA LAKSHMI ROSE

By Sam Pearson

I had first heard of Lotus Birth from the homebirth midwives that attended the birth of my second child. They offered it to me as an option but we decided at that time to cut the umbilical cord. When I fell pregnant with my third baby I wondered if we might investigate Lotus Birth this time around. When I enquired of friends who had practiced Lotus Birth, they made little comment except to say they recommended it and would never cut a babys cord again. I did further research and it seemed to make sense not to interfere with nature without good reason. We wanted a natural birth so decided to leave the cord unsevered and let it dry and separate of its own accord. As this was our first experience with Lotus Birth, we also decided if at any time we felt uncomfortable with the process we would cut the cord.

My pregnancy was fairly straight forward and the birth even more so. It was a January day in Sydney and we were in the middle of a heatwave. I laboured and birthed at home with the loving support of my family. Aalia was born into the water as my husband Nico cuddled me from behind and my sister caught her as she emerged from my body.

A short time after Aalias birth I started to feel some more contractions so left the pool to birth the placenta. Nico held a large stainless steel bowl underneath me and I crouched slightly as it slid easily out of my body. It was beautiful, quite large and after a thorough inspection declared intact.

We left the placenta in the bowl close by while we got to know our precious new baby. We took special care of the bowl as the children excitedly clambered around to observe their new baby sister.

Later on that evening we transferred the placenta into a large plastic sieve that we placed over the metal bowl to drain. Everyone had a good look at it and marvelled at the different colours and cord, which was already beginning to dry out. Leilu decided to play with the new digital camera and took a few great shots of the rich coloured placenta in its bright pink sieve. We got comfortable on the bed with me laying on one side of the baby and the bowl with her placenta on her other side. As we planned not to use nappies with Aalia she lay naked on a handmade cotton pad and I lay naked beside her. The nights had been too hot to wear clothes so we were able to enjoy the skin-to-skin contact.

The next morning the cord was surprisingly dry. It was still a little friable but incredibly strong - a bit like beef jerky. There was the faintest smell quite similar to fresh meat. It was not offensive in the least and nothing you could detect unless you had your nose right up close.

That evening after deciding that no more moisture was going to drain out of it we prepared to wash, salt and bag the placenta. Nico held Aalia close to the bathroom sink while I lifted her placenta and started to run warm water over it. I had thought I could pretty much rinse it under the tap but it proved to be much more difficult than I expected. There were some pockets of blood trapped in the folds of the caul and it had to be turned inside out to make sure the whole placenta was washed on both sides with clots removed. I commented to Nico that I couldnt be as gentle as Id like to be or wed never get it properly clean. It really was big and a bit hard to manage. Eventually, I was happy that I had done a good job and we patted it dry with a paper towel and carried it to the change table for the next step.

I had a bag of sea salt, some lavender essential oil, a square terry cloth nappy and a special placenta bag that I had made during my pregnancy. We lay out the nappy and started packing Aalias placenta with salt. Once it was covered with a thick layer I sprinkled a few drops of lavender oil over it and we wrapped the lot in the nappy and secured it with nappy pins. Aalia watched the whole process intently and paid great attention. She did this every time we resalted her placenta over the following days.

The entire package then went into the placenta bag. I had made it out of Royal Blue velvet. It had a drawstring at one end to close the opening and a cord cover out of the same velvet that secured with Velcro. The cord cover was about half the length of the cord and we wrapped it around the cord at the bag end. The velvet seemed a bit wintery in the heat wave but soon proved to be a most suitable fabric as there was no chance of it accidentally slipping off the bed or couch.

During those first few days I held Aalia most of the time and we kept her very still. This was partly because it was not quite as easy to move a baby with the placenta still attached, but also because there seemed to be an aura about her that reminded us to be very sensitive to her newness. Everybody had a cuddle at least once a day. My Dad, who was out visiting from England, was excited to meet Aalia and came to see her every second day. My Mum had phoned to say she preferred to wait to visit our new baby once her cord and placenta had fallen off, which I happily accepted. I was not offended because I realised that many people in our society would find the practice of Lotus Birth quite confronting. When I was nursing Aalia I placed the placenta bag on the couch or bed beside us and when somebody else cuddled her we placed the bag on her tummy which she didnt seem to mind a bit. When I moved around the house with Aalia I carried her and her placenta as one bundle.

At night I would place Aalia in the middle of our large family bed with her placenta beside her and I would lay down on her other side. When she woke up to feed, in order not to disturb her, I would climb over her switching places with her placenta to give her access to the other breast.

Every day Jordan and I would resalt the placenta discarding the old salt and replacing the nappy with a fresh clean one. Every day the placenta got smaller, lighter and drier.

On the fourth day I noticed that the cord, which was very brittle by now, would scrap on Aalias tummy and hip making it quite red. This was bothering me and I was starting to get tired of having to always consider the placenta. Nico suggested I cut the cord if I felt like it but I couldnt bear the thought of that and decided to wait until it came off naturally.

Nico then suggested I talk to the baby and tell her I was ready for her cord to come away. Even I thought that was a little wacky but it couldnt hurt, so I went to my bedroom with Aalia and told her how much I loved her and loved her placenta. How I was in awe of the fact that it was the organ that had nourished her while she was inside of me and pleased that we had not immediately cut it off when she was born. I also spoke to her about how I was looking forward to the time when it came away so I could hold her close and not worry about it scraping her skin. It didnt separate immediately as I was secretly hoping, but I did feel a sense of peace and decided to wait patiently.

For the rest of that morning Aalia kept grasping her cord between her feet and tugging at it. I wondered if it was itchy because it was healing or if she had simply discovered it with her feet. By now the cord was hanging on by one thin strand and the placenta was a third of its original size and very light. I glanced away and when I looked back I saw she had pulled it off  four days and two hours after she had been born and only a short time after I had talked with her. Everybody in the room went Ooohhh and she then had a big cry  bigger than she had ever before. My research assured me that some babies cry when they are finally Lotus Born. It seemed to us that she was finally born, that the past four days had been one long gradual birth. We all noticed that from the instant her cord came away she was more alert and fussy where she had previously been very still and quiet.

Over the next couple of months Aalias placenta dried out even further, became lighter and eventually ended up the size of my palm. It is many different colours and is still encrusted with some of the salt.

Trust in natures wisdom was one of the reasons we decided to have a Lotus Birth and now, whenever I feel myself looking with impatience for the next stage in Aalias development, I remember how we left her cord alone. I am reminded that her progress has nothing to do with my expectations, and everything will happen in its own perfect time.


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## happilyhappy

Thank you soooo much for this - you have made me want to have another just so I can experience a lotus birth :thumbup:

Your birth story is beautiful, it made me quite emotional! Thanks for sharing the practical info too as that was the bit I had trouble figuring out but you have made it really easy.

We are going to ttc number2 soon and will defo show this to my OH to show him what a wonderful thing it would be to do for a baby x


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## booflebump

This is lovely - thank you for sharing xxx


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## veganmama

um BOOKMARKING

thanks for the great info!


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## WantingABubba

Thanks for this, Sam. I have wanted a Lotus birth since finding out about it a few years ago.

Your story was beautiful.


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## JellyBeann

:add subscription: :lol:


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## becstar

Lotus birth is not for me but your story is beautiful. I'm glad it went well for you and I hope others can add positive stories here soon. x


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## Mrs.E

thanks for the very interesting post! i will definately be picking up & using some of your tips there! xx


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## ljo1984

Personally I'm not wanting to do a lotus birth but I do find it fascinating and think your story is fantastic. Xx


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## ZoeZo

I've never heard of this before, all we know is the baby is born and the cord is cut!

I love the idea of it, sadly I don't think my other half would agree though, I think he would think of the disgusting side rather than the beautiful and natural


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## Sam Pearson

ZoeZo said:


> I love the idea of it, sadly I don't think my other half would agree though, I think he would think of the disgusting side rather than the beautiful and natural

My OH was a bit :wacko:when I first told him but was willing to go with it since I wasn't asking his permission but announcing that is what I would be doing. If he had tried to stop me he would have had to come up with some damn sound arguments against it and since I wasn't asking him to tend the placenta that would have been a tough call.

My 9.5yo son was a bit :nope: and said "No way, that's totally gross and there will be blood dripping about". 

They both found out the reality of a Lotus Birth was very different to what they anticipated..much less gross than they feared...and while we did have to overcome our trepidation about handling a placenta we did get over that and found it was no big deal. We are so detached from many natural processes in our moden lives I think it's healthy to get over unnecessary squeamishness and doing so develops us as people. Once the placenta was wrapped and bagged on day 2 we were so used to it that it just seemed normal.

In actuality, after the initial draining, there was no blood to speak of. The cord was dry and brittle by day 2 and we kept the placenta wrapped and bagged and it too was very dry third day and detached the following day. 

My OH was surprised to find he was totally cool with it and says he'd never want to cut if we have another baby. My son ended up being the one to resalt and wrap the placenta each day (his choice) and he was facinated by it and was readily checking it out and getting everybody else to take a closer look at how it was formed and how the dehydration process was progressing. 

I suppose it all depends on how you feel about birth and babies. The transition for most babies Lotus Birthing is only for a few days, however, the post partum period is a world of bodily fluids for many weeks. Aside from the actual birth itself, afterwards, Mum will be sweating out pregnancy hormones, leaking milk and bleeding for weeks. Some might consider that disgusting and others will see it as a normal and even beautiful. Some men even view their partners birthing and in a post natal state and breastfeeding as sexy and by that I don't mean "Cuaw, hot stuff" but as in it being the culmination of a woman's reproductivity...and isn't that what sex is all about?

Perhaps you could show your OH some photos of Lotus babies transitioning and ask him if they look disgusting? To me what stands out is how serene the look. If you really want a Lotus Birth go for it. Your OH is a grown man and I'm sure he will handle it...especially when it's his own child.


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## ZoeZo

Thanks for such a wonderful reply Sam, I was cringing watching One Born Every Minute last night at them cutting the cord neigh on as soon as the baby had birthed and the placenta was still inside :wacko: just seemed so wrong! I'd never thought about that until I read about Lotus birth on here

I'm glad I've done so much reading up on natural birthing etc beforehand, whereas if I was younger I'd have gone along with whatever the Doctors said and not my body

Think I'll test the water with OH re Lotus birthing, even if I can convince him to let the placenta stay attached as long as possible (if I end up birthing in hospital I'll have to scream at them not to cut it! I can foresee a unwillingness to 'let' it stay attached)


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## lynne192

can i join? i am 9weeks4days pregnant no idea if baby is going to stick but here's hoping. i am currently researching and considering lotus birth with this baby would love to stick around and see what people do i am looking to speak with people who have been through it mostly in the uk because i know it will be a battle to get what i want if i do decided to do it.


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## Sam Pearson

Hi Lynne192,

Congratulations on your pregnancy. Most people I know homebirth so they don't have to come up against any set policies. However, I do know women who have had Lotus Births in hospital including after surgical birth. You have every right to keep your baby intact but that might take standing your ground. Best case scenario might be like the experience that my friend who hospital birthed had where the maternity staff were very curious and supportive and asked her to provide them with good information so they could train all of their staff how to support this practice. Generally the care of the placenta will be up to you or one of your own birth support people.

For the Mums who aren't sure how their OHs will take to the idea perhaps explain that it's not for their benefit but for the benefit of you and the baby. My OH was cool with it but adamant that he didn't want to wash the placenta which was fine since I wanted to do it anyway.

Sam


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## lynne192

thanks hun i can't have a home birth i am too high risk and baby will likely be a premmie like my son :


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## Sam Pearson

lynne192 said:


> thanks hun i can't have a home birth i am too high risk and baby will likely be a premmie like my son :

In that case the hospital should have more reason to support at the very least avoiding early cord clamping and if they agree to that, which they really have to unless you consent to them cutting the cord early, there is no medical reason for them to refuse a Lotus Birth.

Here is a talk about how important it is for premmie babies to avoid early cord clamping/cutting and how much they benefit from delayed cord clamping/cutting - I think the part about premmies is in segment 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-zD8jKne0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

All babies benefit from delayed cord clamping and kangaroo care but none so much as premmies.


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## lynne192

thanks hun i am going to do the delayed clamp and cutting if nothing else so thats a must with me unsure how i can enforce it but i will some way shape and or form but thought i would share my scan pictures from today :D

https://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh156/scottishmind/potential%20McPherson/th_IMG_3191.jpg https://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh156/scottishmind/potential%20McPherson/th_IMG_3192.jpg


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## Sam Pearson

That's cool. It's exciting to see our little ones.

My thinking is this...there are two medical conditions that would require the cord be cut - placenta praevia and if the cord snaps. If the hospital staff agree to delayed cord clamping that means there is no medical reason to clamp/cut the cord. Therefore, once you get to that stage they can't pull the "medical reason" card to get you to allow the cord to be cut. It is always your choice whether to cut or not but you will most likely have to assert your rights. The hopsital staff may no like it but they have to comply with your wishes on this. They will most likely be ignorant about LB and might bang on about infection or whatever and while it's not your role to educate them it would be good if you have a response to any potential concerns they might have. This isn't easy in a vulnerable post natal state so it would be good to have someobdy to be prepared and have somebody to advocate for you - hubby, mother, friend, doula, midwife etc. So long as you tend to the placenta yourself, or get somebody else to, then you aren't requiring anything of them so they really shouldn't have any problem with it.


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## ljo1984

I was going to say it's ultimately your choice what happens (apart from the reasons sane has stated) if you want to do a lotus birth then you go for it even if baby is premie. make it clear in your notes as you can write in them too and/or birth plan if your doing one and maybe print off some info for staff cause it's most likely something they havnt come across and there's nothing wrong with a bit of education lol. Xx


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## Sam Pearson

LOL, I usually get called "insane" around here. Auto correct I pressume.


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## ljo1984

No I love your story I'd never call you insane lol. Xx


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## flubdub

Sam, your posts are always so interesting! :thumbup:

I read quite a bit about Lotus births when I was pregnant. Although I am not sure this is something I will do, (I did have a delayed clamping and physiological 3rd stage, but I understand that this is completely different :)) I think it is amazing, and what a beautiful thing to do for your baby :flower:


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## lynne192

thanks in my birthing plan last time there were many things i stated i did not want or that i was against but they did them anyways which really upset and annoyed me.


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## ljo1984

They shouldn't be doing anything without your consent first and a lotus birth is not going to cause any problems for the baby if premie it's just their ignorance to it etc. X


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## lynne192

with DS i said no power milk BM only and they gave him stupid formula which make him ill, they also gave him vitamin K injection after he was born and i said no to it. its was a messy they said it was because he was premmie that they did all the things they did i wasn't allowed to see him for 4 hours.


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## ljo1984

I dont really know much about care of premies but I'm sure they should still be asking your permission for stuff. it's just not right! When Freya was admitted to icu at two weeks old I kept telling everyone do not give her formula cause I was convinced they'd do it without asking me but once they started her on an ng feed 24 hour fasting they all knew she was having ebm. It shouldn't be like that though worrying they'll do things without permission! Xx


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## lynne192

yeah was shocking, he was almost doubled dosed on his meds many times formula really messed up his bowls which i knew it would i was raging but was too late to really do anything about it in the end.


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## Sam Pearson

Oh, that's so terrible Lynne192. Those things can't be undone and should never have happened to your baby. I'd be so upset.


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## lynne192

i am soo upset i went back and just found my birth plan for James and none of it was followed in the slightest? anyone here also not vaccinate thier kids?


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## Sam Pearson

lynne192 said:


> anyone here also not vaccinate thier kids?

My kids are unvaccinated. It seemed crazy to have a an undrugged vaginal homebirth, breastfeed them full term, avoid chemicals in the house, feed them organic food, dress them in nautral fibers... then inject them with toxins just to avoid childhood diseases - none of which concern me in the least. 

They are all ridiculously healthy. They have all had chicken pox and german measles, the eldest has had mumps and whooping cough that I know of and none of them were particularly sick through any of them. 

I have done more research than anybody I know in real life and my study backed up my gut instinct not to vaccinate. 

A few of my friends who also don't vaccinate have adult children who have been required to have vaccinations for employment purposes. Instead of just accepting the vaccines they have first had blood work done to check if they have any immunity. In all three cases the children were found to have immunity to all the common chlidhood diseases - so apparently they did contract those diseases without ever having symptoms strong enough for their parents to realise what they were ill with but they still acquired lifelong immunity. This has made me very curious as to what illnesses my children might have had without my knowledge. They always get mild symptoms with any illness and recover double time with my home treatments although my youngest does tend to get high fevers with viruses. I only take them to a doctor to treat physical injuries - broken bones, burns, splinters, cuts requiring stitches etc. and they heal remarkably quickly from those events, too.

I'm 48 this year. When I was a child there were no vaccinations for measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, flu and heaps of the other common childhood diseases. We all got them all. Measles would go around the school and the street, we'd get mildly sick and then get better. Some of the babies who didn't catch it the first round would inevitably get it the next round. All of us, being well fed healthy kids with strong immune systems just needed rest to recouperate and we were done. This was the same with all of the diseases I've mentioned above. Nobody panicked over them. The only people I have ever met with polio paralysis (one school friend, one friend's mother and a person I worked with) got sick from the vaccine not the natural virus.

It's a personal choice but it's interesting that most people who vaccinate don't do any serious research and in fact put more thought/time/energy in to researching what car to buy than whether or not to vaccinate their kids.


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## lynne192

i wasn't vaccinated and i am immune to most things, i am a very sickly person but thats just me as a peron, my son has had no vaccines and he has had a few illness and had swine flu which lasted 48hours! his immune system is perfect and his eating isn't too great lol he has suspected aspergers, OCD and AD/HD he has his tentius because he smashed his finger up a few years ago and they said it was cruel not to get that one done but every week i get letters demanding i take james to get his immunistions if he gets sick the doctors would rather shout at me for not getting them done than focus on the minor illness he has. they said when he goes to school he will pick up all these things and likely kill him which i thought was disgusting thing to say, i don't trust the vaccines as far as i can throw them, 

but can you give me any back up to get them off my back? i am not really an all natural mum but i have studied science and even considered a degree in immunology but still doesn't make me trust them infact it makes me trust them less.


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## Sam Pearson

That is why we haven't been to doctors in 14 years aside from for physical injuries. I used to go all the time and they rarely helped me and too often caused harm and eve nlied to me. I have lots of books with old fashioned remedies and we use Essential oils. We homeschool. We love being autonomous and alternative therapies managed at home can be very cost effective.


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## lynne192

sounds more helpful i know from my history that we have been royally screwed from medical professionals :'( i have sever asthma, Hyper mobility syndrome and alot of infertility issues sadly if we don't see medical professionals they can actually report you to social services :(


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## Sam Pearson

They said I had asthma. They said I'd be on meds for life. They had me on the highest dose of preventor and vasodilator. They showed me xrays and said I had permanent lung damage with 15% reduced function for life.


Well, "they" don't know everything. I have worked hard on it but now I have been completely medication free for 5 years and my lungs feel as if they are working 100% although without an xray I suppose I can't be sure.


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## lynne192

i can;t breath even with the high meds its nightmare.


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## Sam Pearson

I recovered by refining my diet a lot but mainly through using the Buteyko Method. The Buteyko Method can be done with a practitioner but I just used the free information and went on a support list. It took me 5 years from start to med free. "Start" being needing to rest for a few moments after walking up to my bedroom before being able to continue walking and needing ventolin to get through the night and "Finish" being completely med free and only wheezing if I catch a virus but getting through those bouts using the Buteyko Method. It takes time to master and is difficult because you basically feel like you are suffocating which is tough to deal with. 

Basically the Buteyko method retrains your body's breathing. Contrary to popular belief a person who is suffering from an asthma attack needs more CO2 rather than more O2. This is because we need CO2 inorder to transfer O2 across to the lungs to make it available to the rest of the body. There is way more O2 in the air that we need - this is why we are able to rescusitate another person with our outbreath. So, if you are breathing at all you are getting plenty of O2 and the key is to get that O2 into your cells and for that you want to increae the CO2. This is what your body is trying to do my creating mucus and inflaming the airways - it's trying to increase the CO2.

The Buteyko Method increases CO2 but also you can do this by having a bi-carb bath (the CO2 will be absorbed through the skin) or even drinking a carbonated drink (my chioce is organic sparkling apple juice).

These days if I get a little wheezy I have a fizzy drink, a bi-carb bath and get cracking on my Buteyko. 

I wanted very much to get off my meds because they degrade the lungs causing more problems when used longterm than were present in the first place. Also, it was getting rather expensive to keep buying the Flixotide, Ventolin and the occassional prescription of Prednesone.

The diet changes I made were to reduce the sugar and dairy to almost none (although I still love an occasional vodka) and removing all preservatives, artificial colourings and artifical additives as well as reducing my yeast intake.

I hope that helps. You can do the Buteyko Method in conjunction with your over the counter meds and at first that is highly recommended.


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## lynne192

meds are nightmare nothing helps me herbs or medication :( will look into it because i am in my 20's and i can't breath at all its horrible :(


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## Sam Pearson

Gosh, that's very young to be so sick. 

There are heaps of things that can help asthma. We have no chemicals in our house - no spray deoderant, cleaning chemicals etc. I don't eat processed foods - just meat, fish, eggs, seeds, nuts, fruits, vegetables - I stay away from processed grains and sugar so if I bake I use almond meal instead of flour and date syrup/honey/maple syrup instead of sugar. The FAILSAFE diet can be immensely helpful.

I get lots of Vitamin D, take magnesium supplements, I avoid chorinated pools, and of course try not to have stress in my life.

I hope you can find something that helps. It is awful not being able to breath properly.


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## lynne192

thanks hun i don't eat anything like that usually anyways can't use cleaning products but i am allergric to everything lol including nuts now which i only got when i got pregnant.


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## motherearth23

Thank you for posting so much information!
In regards to taking a portion of the placenta to encapsulate/consume... I am a bit confused. Wont disturbing the placenta interfere with the natural drying process as the outer layer will be broken?

I would love to do a lotus birth and still be able to encapsulate some placenta to take as a supplement post-partum.

Thank you, hope I'm not grossing anyone out!


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## shorman

Hi when I was having my babies the doctors would always say that if they didn't cut the cord within so much time it would put up the risk of hemorrhaging is this wrong? I don't deny the health benefits to baby though. I also have vaccinated my kids and read up on all of there vaccines before I let them have it and nothing went wrong these vaccines have saved babies from getting things like meningitis how can you say eating everything organic will stop that these vaccines have had bad affects on children but they are a minority of children I respect your decision but at the end of the day you are not a medical professional.


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## Sam Pearson

shorman said:


> Hi when I was having my babies the doctors would always say that if they didn't cut the cord within so much time it would put up the risk of hemorrhaging is this wrong? I don't deny the health benefits to baby though.

Postpartum Hemorrhage can occur for a number of reasons but timing of cutting the cord has no impact on the mother. Perhaps what the doctors meant was that if the cord is not clamped first before cutting the umbilicus will bleed? This is true if you cut the cord early, however, if you leave the cord for long enough you can sever the cord without needing to clamp it and there will be no bleeding. 



shorman said:


> I also have vaccinated my kids and read up on all of there vaccines before I let them have it and nothing went wrong these vaccines have saved babies from getting things like meningitis .

There is a vaccine for meningitis C, however, the most common form of meningitis is meningitis B which is the real killer and for which there is no vaccine. There is a risk of parents having a false sense of security when their children are vaccinated where they believe their children can't get the diseases they are vaccinated for or believe they are vaccinated for all strains of a disease when they aren't. The risk being that they don't bother to keep their children in optimal health and don't bother learning how to identify and treat vaccinable diseases. With Meningitis in particular early diagnosis and treatment is vital and all parents whether they vaccinate or not all parents would do well to be informed and prepared.



shorman said:


> how can you say eating everything organic will stop that

We don't eat everything organic but we do our best to eat as well as we can. Having a healthy diet and lifestyle won't prevent you ever getting sick but will develop and maintain a healthy immune system so that a person can fight any infections they encounter way the body is designed to.



shorman said:


> these vaccines have had bad affects on children but they are a minority of children

It is true that serious short term negative affects of vaccinations happen only in a minority. There is no way of telling ahead of time which children will be negatively affected...that was a risk I personally wasn't willing to take. 


shorman said:


> I respect your decision but at the end of the day you are not a medical professional.

I don't think any body in this thread has claimed to be a medical professional - just parents sharing. Going by your post it seems that medical professionals have led you astray if they have told you that not cutting a baby's cord is dangerous and they have not informed you that your baby is not vaccinated for all strains of Meningitis.


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## motherearth23

Hi there, do you have any advice for the question I asked on the 27th?


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## Sam Pearson

motherearth23 said:


> Thank you for posting so much information!
> In regards to taking a portion of the placenta to encapsulate/consume... I am a bit confused. Wont disturbing the placenta interfere with the natural drying process as the outer layer will be broken?
> 
> I would love to do a lotus birth and still be able to encapsulate some placenta to take as a supplement post-partum.
> 
> Thank you, hope I'm not grossing anyone out!

I haven't done this myself. Let me ask a friend who has. She will know more about it. I'll get back to you.


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## Sam Pearson

Motherearth23, 

The way to do both Lotus Birth and encapsulate the placenta is to keep the drained/washed/dried placenta fresh during the Lotus Birth transition. To do this instead of keeping the placenta in conditions that facilitate the dehydration process (i.e. air drying or wrapping in a breathable cloth) you will keep your baby's placenta wrapped in plastic and kept surrounded by ice packs in a cool bag. You will need a cool bag large enough to contain the placenta and two ice packs and you will want to have spare ice packs constantly in the freezer ready to replace them as required. 

The cord will be poking out of the top of the cool bag and will dehydrate and detach from the baby as usual. All things going well the placenta will remain fresh and you will know that you have been successful if it smells good (like fresh meat). My only concern would be if you have a lengthy transition - it is usually 4-7 days but can be as long as 2 weeks - and I'd worry about keeping the placenta fresh for that long.

After the cord detaches you can then proceed as usual - dehydrate, powder and encapsulate the placenta. 

This arrangement should be just as easy as a usual Lotus Birth in that instead of tending the placenta by checking it and salting/wrapping it you will check it and replace the ice packs. The placenta with the ice packs will be heavier than just a wrapped placenta. No biggie - just a difference.

I hope that helps.


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## motherearth23

Sam Pearson said:


> Motherearth23,
> 
> The way to do both Lotus Birth and encapsulate the placenta is to keep the drained/washed/dried placenta fresh during the Lotus Birth transition. To do this instead of keeping the placenta in conditions that facilitate the dehydration process (i.e. air drying or wrapping in a breathable cloth) you will keep your baby's placenta wrapped in plastic and kept surrounded by ice packs in a cool bag. You will need a cool bag large enough to contain the placenta and two ice packs and you will want to have spare ice packs constantly in the freezer ready to replace them as required.
> 
> The cord will be poking out of the top of the cool bag and will dehydrate and detach from the baby as usual. All things going well the placenta will remain fresh and you will know that you have been successful if it smells good (like fresh meat). My only concern would be if you have a lengthy transition - it is usually 4-7 days but can be as long as 2 weeks - and I'd worry about keeping the placenta fresh for that long.
> 
> After the cord detaches you can then proceed as usual - dehydrate, powder and encapsulate the placenta.
> 
> This arrangement should be just as easy as a usual Lotus Birth in that instead of tending the placenta by checking it and salting/wrapping it you will check it and replace the ice packs. The placenta with the ice packs will be heavier than just a wrapped placenta. No biggie - just a difference.
> 
> I hope that helps.

Thank you! I will definitely consider doing this... although my birth is in July, which would make it hard to keep the placenta cold. Even indoors it gets to be about 80F/26C here during the summer. I may end up just doing the traditional drying out process. I still have a long time to make a decision. But thank you for all the information in your post and getting back to me on this question! It means a lot to me. :flower:


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## Sam Pearson

I also found this webpage. For those who want it all. 

Lotus Birth and Placentophagy.
https://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=226


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