# Ask an unassisted homebirther



## silver_penny

I just wanted to open up a thread for people to openly ask questions. I recently gave birth unassisted after an unassisted pregnancy. If anyone has any questions on the process, feel free to ask away!:thumbup::flower:

Here is the link to my birth story, if you would like to read it as well: link


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## stardust599

Hey

I read your birth story and thought it was an amazing experience. I actually thought it was illegal though, I read a story recently where a couple were prosecuted after their baby became stuck during delivery and they didn't take medical help.

I'm not having a homebirth (I will next time) but having a natural birth in hospital instead so I hope you don't mind me asking questions for my own curiosity!! Please tell me to go away if you'd rather not as I don't want to be rude - I just love reading and learning.

Who did you have at the birth and did anyone have any medical training in case of an emergency? What would you have done if, for example, the babys shoulders were stuck, the cord prolapsed or the placenta would not come away? Did you have your own doppler or anything to monitor the baby during labour? Did you have any training on how to check the cord for loops etc. before the final pushes and did you have any equipment for resuscitating your baby or any training on this? 

How did you know your baby wasn't breech? Did you ever consider having a midwife or doctor present but asking them not to intervene unless necessary?

Thanks xxx

*EDIT - sorry i didn't mean that i thought your actual birth was illegal, i meant i thought to refuse medical assistance for a birth or pregnancy was illegal?*


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## birdiex

Did your doctors have your pregnancy on record?
How did you do pre-natal tests yourself? what are they?

Sorry for the silly-sounding questions, just curious!


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## Celesse

Congrats!

Do you think you would have still gone down the unassisted route if you had been in the UK with a (at least meant to be) decent community midiwfery and home birth system?


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## silver_penny

stardust599 said:


> Hey
> 
> I read your birth story and thought it was an amazing experience. I actually thought it was illegal though, I read a story recently where a couple were prosecuted after their baby became stuck during delivery and they didn't take medical help.
> 
> I'm not having a homebirth (I will next time) but having a natural birth in hospital instead so I hope you don't mind me asking questions for my own curiosity!! Please tell me to go away if you'd rather not as I don't want to be rude - I just love reading and learning.
> 
> Who did you have at the birth and did anyone have any medical training in case of an emergency? What would you have done if, for example, the babys shoulders were stuck, the cord prolapsed or the placenta would not come away? Did you have your own doppler or anything to monitor the baby during labour? Did you have any training on how to check the cord for loops etc. before the final pushes and did you have any equipment for resuscitating your baby or any training on this?
> 
> How did you know your baby wasn't breech? Did you ever consider having a midwife or doctor present but asking them not to intervene unless necessary?
> 
> Thanks xxx
> 
> *EDIT - sorry i didn't mean that i thought your actual birth was illegal, i meant i thought to refuse medical assistance for a birth or pregnancy was illegal?*

Don't worry, I don't take offense easy!! :haha: Which is one reason why I created this thread, so people could candidly ask questions.

There were five people in the house while I was giving birth: me, DH, DS1, my MIL and FIL (we live in the same house). However, only my DH was present in the room when I gave birth. My FIL has had a ton of medical training throughout his life. He is very well versed in CPR and emergency medicine.

I studied thoroughly on the what-ifs and was very confident that I could recognize an emergency should it arise. For example, if the shoulders were stuck, I would have gone to the hands and knees position. It helps open up the pelvis and rotate the baby. In the case of a prolapsed cord, more than likely I would have transported to a hospital, along with the case of a retained placenta. We have emergency services that can reach our house in less than five minutes.

We did our own prenatal care. I took my BP and weight on a weekly basis, as well as checking my urine at home. We monitored baby with a stethoscope, as we don't believe in using ultrasound technology on our baby. (personal choice, no offense meant to anyone who does!)

As for checking for loops, its unnecessary in most cases. In fact, our LO did have the cord around his neck but as he came out in one push, there was no time to check for it!!

I knew my LO wasn't breech by where I was picking up the heartbeat. (It was way down in the pelvis. However, I would not hesitate to deliver a breech baby at home, unassisted, so it really didn't matter to me.

I did consider having a mw present... for about one second. My previous birth experience put me totally off the one in my area, and I feel that even their presence causes a difference in the birth environment. The feeling of being watched has a profound effect on my body, and would have changed the birth experience completely.

Hope that answered your questions... keep them coming! :flower:


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## silver_penny

birdiex said:


> Did your doctors have your pregnancy on record?
> How did you do pre-natal tests yourself? what are they?
> 
> Sorry for the silly-sounding questions, just curious!

I didn't go to a doctor at all throughout my pregnancy, so no, its not on their records. Some states, though, require proof of pregnancy to get the birth certificate. Mine doesn't.

I kept track of my weight and BP, did my own fundal height measuring, and bought urinalysis test strips to check urine levels at home. :flower:


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## silver_penny

Celesse said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Do you think you would have still gone down the unassisted route if you had been in the UK with a (at least meant to be) decent community midiwfery and home birth system?

I honestly couldn't say if I would have or not, as it was my previous birth experience that brought us along this path in the first place. However, with that being said, I don't think I would ever go back to a mw now. :flower:


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## KandyKinz

I also respect your decision and sorta don't want to pry to much but I am curious to know details... In regards to emergencies you said in regards to shoulder dystocia's you would get on your hands and knees... Did you have anyone around you trained to do the specific shoulder dystocia maneuvers (eg McRoberts, clavicle breaking, etc)?, did anyone train themselves to manage breech babies just in case (eg Loveset maneuver)? what did you have planned terms of managing a postpartum hemorrhage? At what point would you have transferred in for blood loss? how did you assess blood loss? What medical training does your FIL have? Did anyone have specific training in neonatal resuscitation (as it is quite different then regular child/adult cpr)? 

Also how frequently did you listen to the fetal heart rate while in labour? 

Did you have difficulty registering baby's birth certificate? Did you have to allow a medical professional to do a pelvic check to ensure a baby came from you (it's been done...)?


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## aliss

Amazing story to read. 

Scares me a little b/c that particular maneuver for shoulder dystocia that you mentioned did not work for me and he was very close to dying, but things worked out great for you and I'm glad you got the unassisted birth you wanted.

Sorry if I missed it, but will have you another?

Oh, and how is the tandem nursing going?? That must be tough too!


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## silver_penny

KandyKinz said:


> I also respect your decision and sorta don't want to pry to much but I am curious to know details... In regards to emergencies you said in regards to shoulder dystocia's you would get on your hands and knees... Did you have anyone around you trained to do the specific shoulder dystocia maneuvers (eg McRoberts, clavicle breaking, etc)?, did anyone train themselves to manage breech babies just in case (eg Loveset maneuver)? what did you have planned terms of managing a postpartum hemorrhage? At what point would you have transferred in for blood loss? how did you assess blood loss? What medical training does your FIL have? Did anyone have specific training in neonatal resuscitation (as it is quite different then regular child/adult cpr)?
> 
> Also how frequently did you listen to the fetal heart rate while in labour?
> 
> Did you have difficulty registering baby's birth certificate? Did you have to allow a medical professional to do a pelvic check to ensure a baby came from you (it's been done...)?

We were not specifically trained in the maneuvers to say, but we invested in the book "Holistic Midwifery" and had areas marked with the maneuvers. In regards to pph, I would have transferred if I started to feel weak, dizzy, lightheaded, or faint. I do have a 15 month old who is still nursing, so would have also done nipple stimulation that way to produce natural oxytocin to help with bleeding, as well as having herbs at hand to reduce the bleeding as well. Honestly, there was no assessment of blood loss. I did pass a few large clots but we did not measure them. My FIL is law enforcement, and had medical training through them. I have also had training in infant/neonatal CPR.

During labor, we did not check fetal heart tones. There were a few reasons behind this: 1) Active labor was fast 2) we wouldn't have the mw check fht if we had one present 3) I felt baby moving normally throughout the labor.

With regards of registering the birth, we have yet to do so, but will let you know what happens after we complete the process. :flower:


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## silver_penny

aliss said:


> Amazing story to read.
> 
> Scares me a little b/c that particular maneuver for shoulder dystocia that you mentioned did not work for me and he was very close to dying, but things worked out great for you and I'm glad you got the unassisted birth you wanted.
> 
> Sorry if I missed it, but will have you another?
> 
> Oh, and how is the tandem nursing going?? That must be tough too!

I would love to have another... in fact, I have always wanted a large family (anywhere from 6-13 kids would be nice!)

Tandem nursing is actually going quite well. My older son is very caring and doesn't mind sharing, just as long as he's getting some too! Positioning in bed is a little complicated, though...


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## ablacketer

very interesting


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## bathbabe

i read your birth story and i just wanted to say - Amazing! Well done xxx


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## TattooedMama

I just wanted to say congratulations again!!! I think this is a good idea to have this thread for those that are curious as to UC birth, the more people learn hopefully the less women who choose this route will be treated badly.

I can't wait to have my UC next year; wishing you, baby and family lots of good health and happiness!!! :hugs::flower:


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## winegums

what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know

some people in the past have killed their babies after birth and classed it as a stillbirth and with no medical professionals as witnesses who would have known the difference?

not to be funny but i'm curious

also my son was breech and we could still hear the heartbeat low down with a stethoscope as could the midwives with their dopplers it didn't really make a difference

and for a breech if the body had come out and the head had not progressed what would you have done? the cord would have been compressed and it would be an emergency situation where you shouldn't physically touch the baby as it may stimulate breathing whilst its head is still inside you

what would you have done if the baby was born and didn't take any breaths?? as someone else pointed out neonatal resus is extremely different to child or adult resus and you would have to be specifically trained in it, and you would need to act within a matter of a couple of minutes

i'm guessing you didn't inject your baby with vitamin k? and i suspect your answer to this would be even under care of a midwife you would not have had your baby given vitamin k. what would you have done if your baby had hemorrhagic disease of the newborn? especially if it had turned out to be an undiagnosed breech?

what would you have done with a face presentation?

what would you have done with a footling breech?

what would you have done if the baby was transverse?


lol sorry for all the questions! very curious


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## TattooedMama

winegums said:


> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> some people in the past have killed their babies after birth and classed it as a stillbirth and with no medical professionals as witnesses who would have known the difference?
> 
> not to be funny but i'm curious
> 
> also my son was breech and we could still hear the heartbeat low down with a stethoscope as could the midwives with their dopplers it didn't really make a difference
> 
> and for a breech if the body had come out and the head had not progressed what would you have done? the cord would have been compressed and it would be an emergency situation where you shouldn't physically touch the baby as it may stimulate breathing whilst its head is still inside you
> 
> what would you have done if the baby was born and didn't take any breaths?? as someone else pointed out neonatal resus is extremely different to child or adult resus and you would have to be specifically trained in it, and you would need to act within a matter of a couple of minutes
> 
> i'm guessing you didn't inject your baby with vitamin k? and i suspect your answer to this would be even under care of a midwife you would not have had your baby given vitamin k. what would you have done if your baby had hemorrhagic disease of the newborn? especially if it had turned out to be an undiagnosed breech?
> 
> what would you have done with a face presentation?
> 
> what would you have done with a footling breech?
> 
> what would you have done if the baby was transverse?
> 
> 
> lol sorry for all the questions! very curious

When people decide to do a UC birth that usually means they have done an extensive amount of research and prepared themselves to adequately handle many emergencies or what are often construed as emergencies but actually aren't and are easily dealt with. Having a UC birth means taking the responsibility of birth into your own hands and not depending on someone else to tell you what to do while you sit a clueless bystander and hope they have your best interest in mind.

The OP may not take offense to this line of questioning but I think your questions are more accusing the necessary. Being at home and unassisted doesn't mean you can't transfer to a hospital but more that you are responsible for knowing the signs of when to transfer. The likeliness of something occurring at home that can't be dealt with and needs to be transferred is not likely but CAN happen and that is why you prepare yourself and educate yourself beforehand.

If you think a UC birth is dangerous, then don't do it!!! And I hope your dr's and MW's don't do anything unnecessary that causes your baby to have problems that wouldn't have occured if you took your birth into your own hands. You don't need to be rude, UC birth is not irresponsible and not anymore dangerous than an assisted homebirth if you prepare properly. If you want to do everything a dr tells you when 95% of that is for their convenience and has not a damn thing to do with you or your baby's health then go for it.

The OP offered to share about unassisted birth not to be quizzed and interrogated so you can form opinions on whether she should have had a UC birth or not. Your approval is not needed and remarks about how she would prove she didn't kill her baby if she had a stillborn is beyond rude.


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## aliss

OK really dumb one, but when you say UC does that mean unassisted.........? C? LOL

I have a secret admiration for you girls because my hospital birth was so "over assisted" that it probably *caused* the shoulder dystocia that almost killed him (multiple failed inductions,etc).


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## TattooedMama

aliss said:


> OK really dumb one, but when you say UC does that mean unassisted.........? C? LOL
> 
> I have a secret admiration for you girls because my hospital birth was so "over assisted" that it probably *caused* the shoulder dystocia that almost killed him (multiple failed inductions,etc).

Yes, UC stands for Unassisted Childbirth. 

I am sorry for your difficulties in the hospital, my experience was pretty rough as well. These are the reasons why some women look into having a UC birth to see if it may suit them better. I hope bbay is healthy now:hugs:


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## Freya

winegums said:


> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> some people in the past have killed their babies after birth and classed it as a stillbirth and with no medical professionals as witnesses who would have known the difference?

Without being too graphic and upsetting members, there are ways of detecting cause of death. A medical prefessional as a witness whilst helpful can also be irrelevent. The case would be thoroughly examined as a whole, history, parents, siblings, the pregnancy etc.


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## Freya

Thanks for sharing your story! I personally feel just as uncomfortable with UC, as I do with hospital births lol! Only because I feel there should be at least one person experienced in birth present (even if not 'doing' a great deal) I guess I'm in the camp of midwife supported home births, but where the midwives are not obssessed with scientific methods. So basically, a midwife who'll leave women 'the hell alone' in labour and be there only as a back ground support (who have the training and knowledge to assist ONLY in the severest of emergency)...... perhaps I'm living in a dream world though?

I can completely understand the shift towards UC, far, far too many traumatic births experiences are happening to women and so more women are naturally retreating to where they feel it is safe to give birth - away from the environments that are no longer conducive to natural birthing. It is exactly the reason I became a Doula. To give women the knowledge and power to take control of there own birth experiences and to help women feel safe in places like hospitals and birth centres, if they dont feel comfortable at home.


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## stardust599

silver_penny said:


> stardust599 said:
> 
> 
> Hey
> 
> I read your birth story and thought it was an amazing experience. I actually thought it was illegal though, I read a story recently where a couple were prosecuted after their baby became stuck during delivery and they didn't take medical help.
> 
> I'm not having a homebirth (I will next time) but having a natural birth in hospital instead so I hope you don't mind me asking questions for my own curiosity!! Please tell me to go away if you'd rather not as I don't want to be rude - I just love reading and learning.
> 
> Who did you have at the birth and did anyone have any medical training in case of an emergency? What would you have done if, for example, the babys shoulders were stuck, the cord prolapsed or the placenta would not come away? Did you have your own doppler or anything to monitor the baby during labour? Did you have any training on how to check the cord for loops etc. before the final pushes and did you have any equipment for resuscitating your baby or any training on this?
> 
> How did you know your baby wasn't breech? Did you ever consider having a midwife or doctor present but asking them not to intervene unless necessary?
> 
> Thanks xxx
> 
> *EDIT - sorry i didn't mean that i thought your actual birth was illegal, i meant i thought to refuse medical assistance for a birth or pregnancy was illegal?*
> 
> Don't worry, I don't take offense easy!! :haha: Which is one reason why I created this thread, so people could candidly ask questions.
> 
> There were five people in the house while I was giving birth: me, DH, DS1, my MIL and FIL (we live in the same house). However, only my DH was present in the room when I gave birth. My FIL has had a ton of medical training throughout his life. He is very well versed in CPR and emergency medicine.
> 
> I studied thoroughly on the what-ifs and was very confident that I could recognize an emergency should it arise. For example, if the shoulders were stuck, I would have gone to the hands and knees position. It helps open up the pelvis and rotate the baby. In the case of a prolapsed cord, more than likely I would have transported to a hospital, along with the case of a retained placenta. We have emergency services that can reach our house in less than five minutes.
> 
> We did our own prenatal care. I took my BP and weight on a weekly basis, as well as checking my urine at home. We monitored baby with a stethoscope, as we don't believe in using ultrasound technology on our baby. (personal choice, no offense meant to anyone who does!)
> 
> As for checking for loops, its unnecessary in most cases. In fact, our LO did have the cord around his neck but as he came out in one push, there was no time to check for it!!
> 
> I knew my LO wasn't breech by where I was picking up the heartbeat. (It was way down in the pelvis. However, I would not hesitate to deliver a breech baby at home, unassisted, so it really didn't matter to me.
> 
> I did consider having a mw present... for about one second. My previous birth experience put me totally off the one in my area, and I feel that even their presence causes a difference in the birth environment. The feeling of being watched has a profound effect on my body, and would have changed the birth experience completely.
> 
> Hope that answered your questions... keep them coming! :flower:Click to expand...

Thanks for answering, glad I didn't cause any offense!!


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## winegums

TattooedMama said:


> winegums said:
> 
> 
> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> some people in the past have killed their babies after birth and classed it as a stillbirth and with no medical professionals as witnesses who would have known the difference?
> 
> not to be funny but i'm curious
> 
> also my son was breech and we could still hear the heartbeat low down with a stethoscope as could the midwives with their dopplers it didn't really make a difference
> 
> and for a breech if the body had come out and the head had not progressed what would you have done? the cord would have been compressed and it would be an emergency situation where you shouldn't physically touch the baby as it may stimulate breathing whilst its head is still inside you
> 
> what would you have done if the baby was born and didn't take any breaths?? as someone else pointed out neonatal resus is extremely different to child or adult resus and you would have to be specifically trained in it, and you would need to act within a matter of a couple of minutes
> 
> i'm guessing you didn't inject your baby with vitamin k? and i suspect your answer to this would be even under care of a midwife you would not have had your baby given vitamin k. what would you have done if your baby had hemorrhagic disease of the newborn? especially if it had turned out to be an undiagnosed breech?
> 
> what would you have done with a face presentation?
> 
> what would you have done with a footling breech?
> 
> what would you have done if the baby was transverse?
> 
> 
> lol sorry for all the questions! very curious
> 
> When people decide to do a UC birth that usually means they have done an extensive amount of research and prepared themselves to adequately handle many emergencies or what are often construed as emergencies but actually aren't and are easily dealt with. Having a UC birth means taking the responsibility of birth into your own hands and not depending on someone else to tell you what to do while you sit a clueless bystander and hope they have your best interest in mind.
> 
> The OP may not take offense to this line of questioning but I think your questions are more accusing the necessary. Being at home and unassisted doesn't mean you can't transfer to a hospital but more that you are responsible for knowing the signs of when to transfer. The likeliness of something occurring at home that can't be dealt with and needs to be transferred is not likely but CAN happen and that is why you prepare yourself and educate yourself beforehand.
> 
> If you think a UC birth is dangerous, then don't do it!!! And I hope your dr's and MW's don't do anything unnecessary that causes your baby to have problems that wouldn't have occured if you took your birth into your own hands. You don't need to be rude, UC birth is not irresponsible and not anymore dangerous than an assisted homebirth if you prepare properly. If you want to do everything a dr tells you when 95% of that is for their convenience and has not a damn thing to do with you or your baby's health then go for it.
> 
> The OP offered to share about unassisted birth not to be quizzed and interrogated so you can form opinions on whether she should have had a UC birth or not. Your approval is not needed and remarks about how she would prove she didn't kill her baby if she had a stillborn is beyond rude.Click to expand...

i know what an unnasisted birth is hun lol

i'm actually really interested in it and thinking of doing it for my dissertation in my degree

she said she openly wanted any questions so i thought why not ask

not sure what i accused her of? and not sure where i was rude? well definately not as rude as you seem to be anyway!

you make a lot of assumptions in your post, you know the joke about assuming right? lets just say you should never assume ;)

the question about stillborns is again just a question. a pretty true question as its a lot more common than people realise and some people end up going through a LOT of trauma proving they didn't kill their own baby and it's something i'd never wish upon anyone


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## winegums

Freya said:


> winegums said:
> 
> 
> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> some people in the past have killed their babies after birth and classed it as a stillbirth and with no medical professionals as witnesses who would have known the difference?
> 
> Without being too graphic and upsetting members, there are ways of detecting cause of death. A medical prefessional as a witness whilst helpful can also be irrelevent. The case would be thoroughly examined as a whole, history, parents, siblings, the pregnancy etc.Click to expand...

a surprising amount of the time, even with post mortems etc they cannot tell the cause of death of a neonate! that's why i was asking.

as for the case being examined, that's the problem! would you really want to go through that afterwards?


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## ablacketer

https://www.r6live.com/images/smilies/popcorn.gif


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## Kate&Lucas

Wow! First of all I am in awe! I can imagine your story is an inspiration to mothers planning homebirths.

I actually have more questions than I thought I did! (Purely curiosity, I've always been very on-the-fence about homebirths and didn't even _realise_ women could give birth unassisted).

- Did you plan to go ahead with UC before you got pregnant? Like, was it a choice you made as soon as you'd been to hospital previously or did the memories just put you off?
- Were your family and friends, (other than your in-laws obv), supportive of the decision?
- Is this a common way of birthing where you live?
- How did you cope with the pain? Did you prepare in any way throughout the pregnancy?
- With regards to complications etc., what was the plan incase of the baby passing meconium in utero? (I only ask because I was told if it happened to get to hospital straight away, so when part of my water broke and was stained I called ahead because I was due to be induced later that night, but my hospital dismissed it and carried on as normal. Two days later when my baby was born we were both ill with sepsis and had to spend a further week in hospital. I was livid!)
- Lastly, your birth story is absolutely beautiful and very well-written, but a part of me is desperate to know, was there the usual screaming and cursing OH and crushing his fingers to let him in on the pain?? :haha:

Thanks for sharing your story! :flower:


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## erinkirsch

I also had an amazing home Birth with just my husband and I, would do it again in a heart beat, congratulations!


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## ablacketer

what a pretty little baby girl Erin


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## erinkirsch

thanks


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## silver_penny

winegums said:


> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> some people in the past have killed their babies after birth and classed it as a stillbirth and with no medical professionals as witnesses who would have known the difference?
> 
> not to be funny but i'm curious
> 
> also my son was breech and we could still hear the heartbeat low down with a stethoscope as could the midwives with their dopplers it didn't really make a difference
> 
> and for a breech if the body had come out and the head had not progressed what would you have done? the cord would have been compressed and it would be an emergency situation where you shouldn't physically touch the baby as it may stimulate breathing whilst its head is still inside you
> 
> what would you have done if the baby was born and didn't take any breaths?? as someone else pointed out neonatal resus is extremely different to child or adult resus and you would have to be specifically trained in it, and you would need to act within a matter of a couple of minutes
> 
> i'm guessing you didn't inject your baby with vitamin k? and i suspect your answer to this would be even under care of a midwife you would not have had your baby given vitamin k. what would you have done if your baby had hemorrhagic disease of the newborn? especially if it had turned out to be an undiagnosed breech?
> 
> what would you have done with a face presentation?
> 
> what would you have done with a footling breech?
> 
> what would you have done if the baby was transverse?
> 
> 
> lol sorry for all the questions! very curious

First, on the stillbirth: I understand the concern. We did have my in-laws present who could vouch for the lividity or morbidity of the baby. While they weren't immediately present in the room, they were still at hand. I don't believe you have to have a medical professional present to vouch for a stillbirth. If they have a question as to the validity, they could do the post-mortem exam.

We were prepared to deliver a breech, and had done a lot of research on the matter. We knew to handle a breech in a hands-off approach and to breath through some pushing contractions to assure complete dilation (more than the hospital staff knew with my DS1). Same would apply to a footling breech. This would prevent the head from being stuck. We also had the room warmed, so as to not stimulate breathing prematurely in a breech.

As for the baby not breathing, our baby actually took a minute or two before he started breathing. However, there was no concern with this, as the cord was still intact and delivering oxygen to the baby. I was practiced in neonatal resus as well as my FIL. 

In your assumption with the vitamin K shot, you are correct. We didn't have it with our first, and we didn't have it with this one either. This is one point where a full placental transfusion makes a huge difference as well. With a full transfusion, there are more clotting factors present in the blood, helping prevent hemmorhage. Most cases of "hemorraghic disease of the newborn" is actually caused by the medical profession.

In regards to transverse lie, we would transfer to the hospital.

HTH :flower:


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## snagglepat

I just wanted to say thanks for both posting your story and being open to candid questions. Your story is beautiful and inspirational. I was lucky and had a fantastic homebirth with a midwife I knew and trusted last time. This time is a different story - by the time I go into labour I'll have met less than half the midwives on my team so will likely be attended by a stranger. That just doesn't sit right for me. I'm not sure that UC does either, but I've read a lot about it in the past and you've inspired me to look into it again.

Thank you.

Gina.


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## Pixxie

Wow I think you are so brave for doing this and for opening up to questions! I would love to do this but would be too scared of something going wrong. 

You say that you didn't see a midwife though your pregnancy, does that mean you didn't have any blood tests? Did you already know your blood type? I only ask because I didnt know mine until I was pregnant and have had to have the anti-d shots so just curious about how you made sure everything was ok with that? And would you have had the shot if you needed it? xx


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## KandyKinz

silver_penny said:


> winegums said:
> 
> 
> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> First, on the stillbirth: I understand the concern. We did have my in-laws present who could vouch for the lividity or morbidity of the baby. While they weren't immediately present in the room, they were still at hand. I don't believe you have to have a medical professional present to vouch for a stillbirth. If they have a question as to the validity, they could do the post-mortem exam.Click to expand...

I think what winegums was implying was in terms of a mortality, regardless of whether the death occured prenatally (stillbirth) or following delivery, you and those present who were aware of what you were doing would have been liable for the death and in many countries that is a criminal offense and punishable by law even if you did not do anything directly to cause the harm. For instance here in Canada neglect to obtain assistance during childbirth can result in a jail sentence of 5 years. 

This is one of the main reasons why many women who consider unassisted birth fail to go through with it. So I guess the key question is what was your opinion on that risk? Did the thought of being held responsible and potentially facing jail time if something went wrong ever cross your mind? Were your family aware that in court they would have been viewed as accesssories to a crime and they too would have been held accountable? 

Again, I'm not trying to be rude or anything just wanting to hear your point of view.


----------



## silver_penny

Kate&Lucas said:


> Wow! First of all I am in awe! I can imagine your story is an inspiration to mothers planning homebirths.
> 
> I actually have more questions than I thought I did! (Purely curiosity, I've always been very on-the-fence about homebirths and didn't even _realise_ women could give birth unassisted).
> 
> - Did you plan to go ahead with UC before you got pregnant? Like, was it a choice you made as soon as you'd been to hospital previously or did the memories just put you off?
> - Were your family and friends, (other than your in-laws obv), supportive of the decision?
> - Is this a common way of birthing where you live?
> - How did you cope with the pain? Did you prepare in any way throughout the pregnancy?
> - With regards to complications etc., what was the plan incase of the baby passing meconium in utero? (I only ask because I was told if it happened to get to hospital straight away, so when part of my water broke and was stained I called ahead because I was due to be induced later that night, but my hospital dismissed it and carried on as normal. Two days later when my baby was born we were both ill with sepsis and had to spend a further week in hospital. I was livid!)
> - Lastly, your birth story is absolutely beautiful and very well-written, but a part of me is desperate to know, was there the usual screaming and cursing OH and crushing his fingers to let him in on the pain?? :haha:
> 
> Thanks for sharing your story! :flower:

Sorry about taking so long to get to your questions (having a newborn and a 15month old doesn't leave much time for mom!)

My DH and I discussed doing an unassisted birth almost immediately after the birth of our first. The way the whole experience went and how we were treated just didn't sit right with either one of us. The more we thought about our previous hospital experience, the more we became upset with it. So kinda both. There was a little hesitation, but nothing that turned us off to the idea of an unassisted birth.

We did not tell anyone else besides my inlaws that we were planning it to be unassisted. We just felt there was no need to open up our choice for criticism and negativity.

I don't think its common anywhere to give birth unassisted, though I believe the movement is growing. Its not for everyone, and I understand the hesitation and the fear behind it.

I never took any birthing classes with my first, nor did I take any this time around. I did, however, read a great book called "childbirth without fear" which helped mentally prepare me.

In regards to meconium staining, it would have depended upon the degree and color of the staining. If it was just light yellow staining, we more than likely would have proceeded as planned. However, we would not hesitate to go to the hospital if we feared there was any threat to the baby or me.

During the birth, I did a little (maybe five to six minutes) of moaning to focus through the pain. There was only one "scream" and that was during the second push, which was when both head and body of baby was born at once. I didn't curse my DH or anything (I didn't with my first either). He counts himself lucky in this, as he always thought that women blamed the men during labor. I guess I'm one of the rare few.There was no squishing of the hand/fingers either during this birth either, though there was during the first (on the ride to the hospital because I had to hold back on the contractions, which caused even more pain). There was a time or two that I was a little curt with DH when I was asking him for stuff, but I would immediately apologize to him for it! :blush:

:flower:


----------



## silver_penny

Pixxie said:


> Wow I think you are so brave for doing this and for opening up to questions! I would love to do this but would be too scared of something going wrong.
> 
> You say that you didn't see a midwife though your pregnancy, does that mean you didn't have any blood tests? Did you already know your blood type? I only ask because I didnt know mine until I was pregnant and have had to have the anti-d shots so just curious about how you made sure everything was ok with that? And would you have had the shot if you needed it? xx

I didn't have any blood tests, but already knew my blood type. I used to donate blood, and knew my blood type from that. I'm positive, so don't need the anti-d shots.


----------



## lousielou

What a fantastic thread. Thank you silver_penny for being so candid about it all - it's really inspiring, and incredibly interesting :) You obviously did a huge amount of research before you went ahead, and I'm so happy for you that you had the peaceful, personal, non-medicalised birth you planned. A huge congratulations to you xx


----------



## Kate&Lucas

Thank you so much! Your story is incredible :D


----------



## silver_penny

KandyKinz said:


> silver_penny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> winegums said:
> 
> 
> what would you have done in case of stillbirth? you could have been blamed you know
> 
> First, on the stillbirth: I understand the concern. We did have my in-laws present who could vouch for the lividity or morbidity of the baby. While they weren't immediately present in the room, they were still at hand. I don't believe you have to have a medical professional present to vouch for a stillbirth. If they have a question as to the validity, they could do the post-mortem exam.Click to expand...
> 
> I think what winegums was implying was in terms of a mortality, regardless of whether the death occured prenatally (stillbirth) or following delivery, you and those present who were aware of what you were doing would have been liable for the death and in many countries that is a criminal offense and punishable by law even if you did not do anything directly to cause the harm. For instance here in Canada neglect to obtain assistance during childbirth can result in a jail sentence of 5 years.
> 
> This is one of the main reasons why many women who consider unassisted birth fail to go through with it. So I guess the key question is what was your opinion on that risk? Did the thought of being held responsible and potentially facing jail time if something went wrong ever cross your mind? Were your family aware that in court they would have been viewed as accesssories to a crime and they too would have been held accountable?
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to be rude or anything just wanting to hear your point of view.Click to expand...

It was something that we considered and discussed (it was our one point of hesitation). However, it would be up to the courts to prove negligence on our part. In our state it is not illegal to have an unassisted birth. And who is to say that we didn't try to get to the hospital and just had a precipitous birth? :flower:


----------



## emmi26

my turn to ask !! 
i delivered my daughter myself as no-one arrived in time so im in total awe of you and actually know a lot of it is common sense !!
anyway i just wondered if at any point nin pregnancy there was something that worried you or made you seriously consider asking for help? was there a time when babys movements were quieter or anything you were unsure of ?? im a total worrier about everything you see !! 
im going to read yr birth story now think yr amazing and yr dh is also x


----------



## silver_penny

emmi26 said:


> my turn to ask !!
> i delivered my daughter myself as no-one arrived in time so im in total awe of you and actually know a lot of it is common sense !!
> anyway i just wondered if at any point nin pregnancy there was something that worried you or made you seriously consider asking for help? was there a time when babys movements were quieter or anything you were unsure of ?? im a total worrier about everything you see !!
> im going to read yr birth story now think yr amazing and yr dh is also x

Not really... I'm not too much of a worrier,and my pregnancy was pretty much textbook!:flower:


----------



## hopeandpray

Wow, I admirey our decision in some respects, but I could never do that. I was born by c-section due to the cord being wrapped around my neck several times because of my personal intrest in that case and being a medical student I've done a little research on it. Babies die during labour because of this, of course not always but sometimes when the cord is wrapped many times. Were you not worried something like this could have happened and you wouldn't have been able to have an emergency c-section due to not knowing what was going on with the baby's heartbeat?


----------



## silver_penny

hopeandpray said:


> Wow, I admirey our decision in some respects, but I could never do that. I was born by c-section due to the cord being wrapped around my neck several times because of my personal intrest in that case and being a medical student I've done a little research on it. Babies die during labour because of this, of course not always but sometimes when the cord is wrapped many times. Were you not worried something like this could have happened and you wouldn't have been able to have an emergency c-section due to not knowing what was going on with the baby's heartbeat?

Nuchal cords are more common than one would think. My LO had a nuchal cord, only wrapped once though. There are many cases with nuchal cords that have been wrapped several times without any issue. However, if it would have been to the point of being detrimental, more than likely there would have been some sign of it during labor. Either failure to progress or fetal distress would have occurred. In either case, we would have been able to call an ambulance and the hospital, been blue-lighted in and had an emergency c-section then. :flower:


----------



## hopeandpray

Thanks, actually went and had a look and it's really really way more common than I thought! you're lucky that you were so near a hospital, must have given you peace of mind. And OT but I think it's great that your tandem nursing and your toddler doesn't mind sharing. You've really opened up my mind to doing things a little more naturally when I eventually have kids. Thanks for being so open and not being offended! My dads a doctor and has delivered a couple of babies before people managed to get to the hospital so I would have someone with experience there in any scenario. I'm so used to knowing any medical professionals I have around me I never considered how weird it must be having strangers around


----------



## Dream.A.Dream

hopeandpray said:


> Thanks, actually went and had a look and it's really really way more common than I thought! you're lucky that you were so near a hospital, must have given you peace of mind. And OT but I think it's great that your tandem nursing and your toddler doesn't mind sharing. You've really opened up my mind to doing things a little more naturally when I eventually have kids. Thanks for being so open and not being offended! My dads a doctor and has delivered a couple of babies before people managed to get to the hospital so I would have someone with experience there in any scenario. *I'm so used to knowing any medical professionals I have around me I never considered how weird it must be having strangers around*

It is quite strange when you're in the middle of labour and you get to the hospital to be greeted by a complete stranger who almost immediately puts their hand up your woo hoo :rofl:

I find your story amazing but it's not something I could do, I do want a homebirth with my next baby though xx


----------



## KandyKinz

silver_penny said:


> hopeandpray said:
> 
> 
> Wow, I admirey our decision in some respects, but I could never do that. I was born by c-section due to the cord being wrapped around my neck several times because of my personal intrest in that case and being a medical student I've done a little research on it. Babies die during labour because of this, of course not always but sometimes when the cord is wrapped many times. Were you not worried something like this could have happened and you wouldn't have been able to have an emergency c-section due to not knowing what was going on with the baby's heartbeat?
> 
> Nuchal cords are more common than one would think. My LO had a nuchal cord, only wrapped once though. There are many cases with nuchal cords that have been wrapped several times without any issue. However, if it would have been to the point of being detrimental, more than likely there would have been some sign of it during labor. Either failure to progress or fetal distress would have occurred. In either case, we would have been able to call an ambulance and the hospital, been blue-lighted in and had an emergency c-section then. :flower:Click to expand...

It is true that nuchal cords are very common and occur in approximately 1 in 4 babies and in the majority of those cases no complications arise as a result... But I'm a little confused as I thought you had written earlier that you did not listen to the baby's heart rate at all during the labour, thereby how would you have known if there was fetal distress during labour?


----------



## birdiex

Sorry if I'm butting in but I think she said she felt regular movements from baby through-out the labour? I'm assuming that she would have deduced distressed if the movements changed or stopped x


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## mrskcbrown

Is UC the same as free birthing? I saw an episode of this on TLC and am just very curious. Congrats on your baby.


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## TattooedMama

mrskcbrown said:


> Is UC the same as free birthing? I saw an episode of this on TLC and am just very curious. Congrats on your baby.

Yes it is the same thing. :flower:


----------



## taylor197878

i read ur birth story and it sounds amazing although i dont think i could do it im to much a worrier but it is still amazing and must have been a wonderfull expericing for u and ur hubby.


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## dragondrums

Such a beautiful birth story, congratulations!


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## goddess25

Congratulations Silver Penny on having the birth as you wanted. 

I am planning a natural home birth this time around if my husband comes round to the idea.. but I will be having my midwife present. I would not be comfortable dealing with it all myself if any emergencies arose... i don't think I would be able to forgive myself if anything happened if it were just me. I had shoulder dystocia last time and ended up in the OR for forceps/c-section delivery and no one even suggested that I change position etc and by that point anyway I was too tired to suggest it myself.

Thanks for sharing your story. It will inspire lots of women I am sure.


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## aliss

goddess25 said:


> Congratulations Silver Penny on having the birth as you wanted.
> 
> I am planning a natural home birth this time around if my husband comes round to the idea.. but I will be having my midwife present. I would not be comfortable dealing with it all myself if any emergencies arose... i don't think I would be able to forgive myself if anything happened if it were just me. I had shoulder dystocia last time and ended up in the OR for forceps/c-section delivery and no one even suggested that I change position etc and by that point anyway I was too tired to suggest it myself.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your story. It will inspire lots of women I am sure.


Good luck to you, I would have loved a natural home birth for #2 but I am far too scared about the SD. Will you be monitoring growth throughout the pregnancy?


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## milkmachine

Maybe ill get this next time if there is a next time <3 x


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## ellie

Just wante dto say congratulations - amazing!
I thought i was well prepared before labour, but now I realise I knew very little after reading what you know!
I do think there is someetimes a bit too much paranioa about the 'what if's' because birth has been so massively medicalised. (And I say that as someone who had to have a very swift EMCS for mine and my baby's safety - I still know that mine was a very minority case). I really applaud you for being able to trust your body! I guess you had had a natural birth before? 
Was your older child present straight after the birth? And has there been a change in your milk - does this bother your older child? (sorry not technically about the birth but I am curious!)


----------



## silver_penny

KandyKinz said:


> It is true that nuchal cords are very common and occur in approximately 1 in 4 babies and in the majority of those cases no complications arise as a result... But I'm a little confused as I thought you had written earlier that you did not listen to the baby's heart rate at all during the labour, thereby how would you have known if there was fetal distress during labour?

You are right in remembering that we didn't do FHT during labor, however, I felt regular fetal movements and would have checked FHT if I didn't. With a short cord, there are other signs other than FTH that indicate a problem :flower:


----------



## silver_penny

ellie said:


> Just wante dto say congratulations - amazing!
> I thought i was well prepared before labour, but now I realise I knew very little after reading what you know!
> I do think there is someetimes a bit too much paranioa about the 'what if's' because birth has been so massively medicalised. (And I say that as someone who had to have a very swift EMCS for mine and my baby's safety - I still know that mine was a very minority case). I really applaud you for being able to trust your body! I guess you had had a natural birth before?
> Was your older child present straight after the birth? And has there been a change in your milk - does this bother your older child? (sorry not technically about the birth but I am curious!)

My first was a natural birth, although he was breech.

He was present straight after the birth, but he didn't quite know what to make of the new little person mommy was holding! There was a change in the milk for a couple of days, but never put my older one off breastfeeding. During pregnancy, there was a decrease in milk, and my older son quite enjoyed himself when my milk came in!


----------



## readynwilling

Great birth story and thread. Im having a hospital birth with an OBGYN (so completely opposite of you) but the further along i get the more and more natural i want the birth of the baby to be. I applaud your courage and your openess on the topic!


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## topsy

Wow, what an amazing story.

I am still WTT, so miles off giving birth, but at the moment reading different stories, and thinking thinking about my options when my time comes. I am not sure I would be brave enough to do it, possible home birth??? But thanks for sharing, and congratulations on your little one x


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## emmi26

hey hun x 
just wondered if you tore at all during delivery ? if you had and needed stitches how would you have got them sorted or would you have just gone to a dr after ? 

still think yr amazing had my home birth kit delivered by mw today all very exciting x


----------



## Tsia

wowwzers.. Hats off to you girls who prefer UC

NEVER heard of this UC before at all! 
I must be niave

I had enough Strife from freinds family especially MIL cos I wanted homebirth in a pool!!! 
All I got when I told ppl of my plans was ''you should be in a hospital what if things go wrong blah blah'' 
I thought - NO.. I am NOT ILL!! I am just having a baby.. in my relaxed home surroundings.. at my own pace.. no inteference.. but was secretly happy I 
To be fair.. I was looking forward to trying the gas and air.. 
My birth went to plan and swimmingly.. but I had a very good 30 years experienced very lovely MW with me the whole 9 hours. 
I had the pethadine in the leg which didnt do much to be honest.. and the gas and air was my hero! but I nearly very nearly did it without. 

Now MY question is.. and I am sorry if this has been asked before.. 

If you ripped.. and lets face it most women do of some degree,, rip/graze/front or back wherever.. 
who would sew it up.. your DH? 
Mines a bit squeemish! lol
Or at that point would you just leave it to heal naturally? (which would be hard a full peri tear) or would you at that point go to hospital? 

ANyways.. you are so brave for making a decsions on UC. Hats off to you. I couldnt go that far.. I thought I was hippy enough just with a home water birth! lol 
Imagine what they would have said if I wanted UC??? :shock:


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## aob1013

If something had gone horribly wrong because you decided to have no medical assitance, how would you have felt and what would you have done?


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## Sam292

Not sure if this has been answered but Im really interested in what you did throughout pregnancy to monitor yourself and baby. Did you have any anomaly scans or anything? Also were you monitoring iron levels and bump measurements? I have found the majority of my midwife appointments to be quite pointless. They take blood several times and really once you know your blood type it seems a bit unnecessary - just my opinion! Would love to go without seeing them in my next pregnancy but im not sure if this is legal in uk - does anyone know? 
Also did you take your blood pressure? Thats the main thing I would want to keep an eye on even though I have never had an issue with it, I know that it could turn nasty quite quickly. Thanks for sharing, its great to have the opportunity to ask these things!


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## knockedup

I am planning on having a UC as well so i am SO happy I found your thread, cause I want to make sure I am prepared. I am sure I will have questions for you, but it is 12:30am and my brain is asleep so i cant think of any now lol. I am trying to learn as much as possible about UC and coming up with a birth plan, i do live about 5 min from the hospital so if something goes wrong, its very close.


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## knockedup

What kind of things did you do to prepare? (classes ect) and what supplies did you have for the birth?


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## pea-in-pod

Thank-you so much for sharing your wonderful story Silver Penny!

My question is: what is an EPO? You mentioned taking them a few times while in labour ...


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## summer rain

EPO=evening primrose oil; I presume capsules


----------



## madasa

I think it was the most beautiful birth story I've ever read :flower:

I don't think brave is the right word, to be brave you have to be scared, and overcome it. But it sounds like you weren't scared at all. I admire you for the amount of preparation and research you did, and for your positive attitude throughout, in spite of the rough ride with your first birth.

Congratulations! Your baby is very lucky to have been born so gently and lovingly :flower:


----------



## Rhio92

Hey, just writing to say I LOVE your story. It really is amazing. Birth today has been taken over by the medical proffesion, and pregnancy and labour are seen as health conditions. People forget that birth is normal, natural event. You never see animals on wildlife shows monitoring each other and doing assisted deliveries,and the majority of them survive. 
I don't think I could ever have an unassisted birth (I'm too much of a wimp with pain!), but think your story is amazing, congratulations to you :)


----------



## Lisa1

Amazing story!!! A woman giving birth no more no less:) why have we turned giving birth into such a medical thing?

I'm not pregnant but hoping to be soon, I really want a homebirth but even the mention of it makes my oh freak out! I loved when you said he was born as he was created with just you and OH:)

yes there is a lot of what ifs! I probably won't be strong enough to have the birth that I want. But omg power to you! Your obviously an intelligent women and if you thought anything was going wrong you would have went to hospital.

I think you turely had an amazing positive experience for you lo and dh xx

oops question was the baby attached to the placenta till the next morning?


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## lynnikins

i know your birth was some time ago now, i just wanted to say my Congrats

although i was in hospital for ds1 and ds2 then ds2 was very nearly delieverd by my husband due to the MW's be unaware of his rush to get into the world lol, I love the Idea of UC, however i am just not comfortable with it as a choice for myself although strongly considering a homebirth ( DH isnt aggreeing with me at this point )


----------



## nov_mum

great story and it's awesome that you have been able to answer so any questions about it. I love the idea of an unassisted birth but with my history, having a home birth will bea major achievement at any rate. 

Congrats


----------



## tristansmum

wow this was really interesting. i would never have unassisted birth or home birth as i worry too much and wouldn't be able to take the risk. my son was EMSC after becoming stuck so i'm happy to was in hospital... plus i needed the gas & air! lol

But i respect how open you have been on here and answered every question politely and honestly. you were obviously prepared and i'm so happy all went well.


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## Guppy051708

So glad you posted this!

I had a beautiful waterbirth, unmedicated and intervention free birth in a hospital. (which i was surpised about as we all know how hospital births can go :wacko:) but my biggest issue was them taking my child away :cry: sometimes i am still upset that they wouldn't let me nurse him for so long and that they had him in the nursery for no real reason the entire first day of his life! I want a homebirth but our insurance does not pay for it and we can't afford it out of pocket :nope: so i was looking into UC. My mum had 5 babies, her last was unassisted and it only lasted 2 hours! she said it didn't hurt anymore than any other birth and she said it was because of how relaxed she was. 

I was just wondering if you had any helpful links or books that you would suggest? How do you get over the fear of the "what-ifs"? I am an all-natural childbirth educator and doula so i totally understand the prenatal and birth process and i have full respect and faith in woman and babies and what they can do but i guess there is that little fear. I do believe that american society has taught woman to fear birth and thats why so many end up with the tramatic hospital birth experiences. I know some would call me irresponsible or crazy for even thinking of doing a UC with our next baby, but i just want some direction. I would rather have a homebirth midwife, but thats just not feasable-not even iIf she did a payment plan. I think we could do it, just a little fearful. We are within 5 minutes of the hospital i delivered at so even if there was an emergency, we would be fine :thumbup:

also can you give me a small list of things i should know and prepare myself for? and what items i would need and what i should be looking for as far as healthy baby during labor?


----------



## Guppy051708

another question over here :hi: :blush:

I was given a small injection of pitocin after the birth only because i lost a ton of blood (i actually ended up being severely anemic. Lesson learned, i will stay on my prenatal next time :dohh:), but anyways, if that were to happen what would one do to stop the bleeding? The pitocin helps stop the bleeding, so i understand why they gave it to me, but im all for being natural! (obviously) so if that were to happen, lots of blood loss and/or being anemic, what would you do? Im wondering this for my own choices. Surely there is some sort of natural remedy? :shrug: ...i obviously have a ton of research to do! :coffee:


----------



## Jodie.82

wow what an amazing story thanks for sharing! Im having a home water birth in Peru, but would never be brave enough to have an UC, but hugely admire you for it! The main reason ive chose a home birth is the culture here is very much geared towards c-sections, ive met many girls who were told they were too small (seriously!) to give birth naturally or the baby was too big, turned out to be 7lbs 1 so pretty small! plus there is the theory that c sections cost more and so 85pc of the births in the capital Lima end up c ssections,as its corrupt! also the doctors deliver the babies and if you take too long they say the baby is in distress and whoosh you off to surgery! all that scares me far more than the idea of giving birth at home with my loving OH and amazing midwife!


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## cosmicgirlxxx

Don't mean to offend but as we're being honest, I think it's dangerously irresponsible and should not be encouraged.


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## birdiex

cosmicgirlxxx said:


> Don't mean to offend but as we're being honest, I think it's dangerously irresponsible and should not be encouraged.

If you don't mean to offend, don't say it, it's still offensive and rude. She's sharing her story and answering questions, don't look if you don't like it. Other peoples births are not your responsibility and therefore you don't have a right to tell us if we should be encouraged or not. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. How bleeding rude! :coffee:


----------



## Kate&Lucas

birdiex said:


> cosmicgirlxxx said:
> 
> 
> Don't mean to offend but as we're being honest, I think it's dangerously irresponsible and should not be encouraged.
> 
> If you don't mean to offend, don't say it, it's still offensive and rude. She's sharing her story and answering questions, don't look if you don't like it. Other peoples births are not your responsibility and therefore you don't have a right to tell us if we should be encouraged or not. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. How bleeding rude! :coffee:Click to expand...

:thumbup:


----------



## Guppy051708

cosmicgirlxxx said:


> Don't mean to offend but as we're being honest, I think it's dangerously irresponsible and should not be encouraged.

Hmmm....some of us have had very traumatic hospital births as a result of hospital staff....so to some giving birth in a hospital is irresponsible but it's not like we would ever say that....just saying ;)


----------



## cosmicgirlxxx

So I can only comment if I agree with it? If you open yourself to discussion you can expect to hear honest opinions. Sorry if you don't like my opinion but tough. I think you're being very naive to think that everyone will say "oh that's great" "well done". And FYI I wasn't rude at all, nor did I word it offensively. I have as much right to an opinion as anyone else.


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## Guppy051708

I believe the OP said to ask questions. It says nothing about debating if it's irresponsible or not....


----------



## cosmicgirlxxx

Guppy051708 said:


> cosmicgirlxxx said:
> 
> 
> Don't mean to offend but as we're being honest, I think it's dangerously irresponsible and should not be encouraged.
> 
> Hmmm....some of us have had very traumatic hospital births as a result of hospital staff....so to some giving birth in a hospital is irresponsible but it's not like we would ever say that....just saying ;)Click to expand...

I too have had a traumatic hospital birth, but had I have birthed at home alone bit me and my babies would be dead now, fact.


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## Guppy051708

Well thats your own personal opinion- it doesnt mean others are wrong or irresponsible for it. ....mothers arnt out to having dead babies here....there are guidelines to home births....like living within x amount of minutes from a hospital, etc.


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## cosmicgirlxxx

For the record I am pro home birth with full anti natal check ups and mw present. Yes I do think giving birth without a health professional present is grossly irresponsible, that is my opinion, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. Ok, so why risk it? Why put your babies life at risk?


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## Guppy051708

Why don't you ask the OP? ;)
After all QUESTIONS were the point of the thread x ;)


Ps I never said anything if I agreed with you or not, I'm just pointing out why someone would go that route :thumbup:


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## birdiex

cosmicgirl, I am a strong believer in the fact that if you have to say 'I don't mean to offend' then you're going to offend somebody. This is not a thread for debates, and the home & natural birthing forum is for support, not for people to come in and cause arguments. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it! No need to post whatsoever really!


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## cosmicgirlxxx

Sorry, I thought a forum was for discussion, not agreeing with everything everyone else was saying.


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## cosmicgirlxxx

birdiex said:


> cosmicgirl, I am a strong believer in the fact that if you have to say 'I don't mean to offend' then you're going to offend somebody. This is not a thread for debates, and the home & natural birthing forum is for support, not for people to come in and cause arguments. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it! No need to post whatsoever really!

And I think you'll find I was polite and not offensive with my opinion.


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## Guppy051708

As per the OP (original poster):


silver_penny said:


> *I just wanted to open up a thread for people to openly ask questions. *I recently gave birth unassisted after an unassisted pregnancy. If anyone has any questions on the process, *feel free to ask away!*:thumbup::flower:

If you would like to create a thread to discuss OPINIONS on this type of birthing style, please do so! :D Threads, debate, questions are all encouraged on BnB. But this particular thread is about QUESTIONS. There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion, in fact i think its healthy and good to have the different perspectives, but this is not the thread for that. If however you have a sincere question then ask away! :D that was the entire point of THIS thread. I am sure there are threads throughout BnB discussing the plethora of opinions. That would be the proper place for such comments :thumbup: I am trying to be genuine here (tone of voice is challenging online so sorry if this sounds like im yelling, im not honest :friends:). Please, just be sensitive to the OPs request :D


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## Guppy051708

cosmicgirlxxx said:


> Why put your babies life at risk?

This is a perfect question for the OP hun :D Exactly what she was looking for :hugs: I am sure she will be more than happy to answer this. I think she already has but there are a bit of pages to sift through. She is a nice gal, im sure she will answer this :friends:


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## cosmicgirlxxx

That's absolutely fine, thankyou for not being aggressive with me or telling me I'm rude for my opinion. I thought that opinions would be welcome as the op seemed quite open to views.that's fine, thanks guppy.


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## cosmicgirlxxx

Guppy051708 said:


> cosmicgirlxxx said:
> 
> 
> Why put your babies life at risk?
> 
> This is a perfect question for the OP hun :D Exactly what she was looking for :hugs: I am sure she will be more than happy to answer this. I think she already has but there are a bit of pages to sift through. She is a nice gal, im sure she will answer this :friends:Click to expand...

Thanks :flower:


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## Guppy051708

NP :flow:


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## Maz1510

Congratulations on your safe arrival. 

Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant. 

As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there. 
Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.

I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced. 


ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. 
I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience. 

Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x


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## bathbabe

Iv got no questions i just wanted to say that i know somebody who delivered twins at home by herself, by accident :haha: paramedic arrived just as the second one was being born. She had a very quick labour x


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## madasa

Hmmm. I would not have a UC myself. I would also not (intentionally) attend a birthing woman who did not have (or plan to have) a trained professional there to assist her. That said, I am not sure I like the question "Why put your baby's life at risk?" This is why :)

There is always a risk with birth, as with anything else. There's ALWAYS an element of risk, WHATEVER path you choose. You choose which risk is right for you, right?

It would be considered rude and presumptious to ask that question of someone who was planning a hospital birth. The stats show that birthing in hospital puts you and your baby at greater risk of a long list of complications. Hey, the stats show it's safer at home, so you MUST be selfish or stupid or irresponsible to go to hospital. Right? Er, no. Each woman is doing what she feels is right for her baby and what is within HER comfort level. 

In fact, IME, MOST of the ladies planning to give birth at home, or even give birth unassisted have gone to a lot of trouble to inform themselves of the risks so that they can make a decision with their eyes wide open. COnnversely, man women I know do little to no preparation for a hospital birth. They mentally and physically hand the whole gig over to the medical profession. It's their job to "deliver" the baby, right? They do this every day, THEY are the experts. Heck, this could be the mother's first time! She is wrong to take control! Isn't she?

"Why take the risk of birthing unassisted?" I suspect the answer if because that family did not want to take the risk of birthing "in the system". To them, THAT risk is greater. That is why they are doing it. They could as easily say to you, here, MY WAY is better. Why did YOU put YOUR baby's life at risk? But wouldn't that be considered.... bad form?

Like I said, I wouldn't UC myself, or attend a UC-ing woman. Just trying to shed some light on why, that question, phrased that way, might not be taken so well. Because, heck, I'm not even a UC-er and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, kwim?


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## silver_penny

I know I have been MIA from this thread for quite some time. Sorry about the delay in answering your questions. So, without further ado...

In regards to tearing: first and second degree tears I would not have stitched, third or fourth degree tears, I would have gone to a doctor to have it stitched up.

Helpful books and links: I purchased the following books, which I found very imformative and helpful: "Holistic Midwifery, Vol II," "Childbirth Without Fear," and "Heart and Hands, a Midwife's Guide to pregnancy and childbirth" There were multiple websites that I frequented. but https://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/ is a great place to start

Things I prepped myself for: PPH, breech or other abnormal presentations, nuchal cord, and various other complications. The book "Holistic Midwifery" goes through most of the complications that could happen during birth. This book is over 1400 pages, a textbook for midwives. With all of the research I did, all I am lacking to become a midwife is to do an internship.

What to do during PPH: Majority of cases of PPH are cause by an atonic uterus (up to 90% of cases. Nipple stimulation is one technique that helps the body release oxytocin to cause contractions. This can either be done by hand or by having the baby feed. The following herbs are oxytocic and usuful during PPH: witch hazel, blue cohosh, and cotton root bark. If the placenta has already delivered and the herbs aren't enough, there are following are things you can do to help with the hemmorage: gentle fundal massage, or uterine compression (abdominal, abdominal bimanual or internal bimanual) I would strongly advise in the case of PPH to be transferred to hospital.

Now, for the questions on why. I understand that some may consider me irresponsible. However, I view myself as just the opposite. Here is my reasoning behind this: if I went to hospital or even if I had a midwife present at home, I would be placing the responsibility in their hands. I was fully responsible for the outcome of my birth and I took it on in this way. There are many women out there who are more than comfortable with putting their lives and their baby's lives in the hands of professionals. That is _their_ choice. I was not comfortable with doing that, as per my previous experience. Therefore, I took on all the responsibilities. I did my own prenatal care, prepped myself for the birth (as did my husband), and the possible outcomes of it. Yes, I know some consider what I did as "risky". I just have to disagree. I honestly don't think I put my baby's life at risk. I do think my previous midwife put my DS1 at risk, and the hospital put both my DS1's life and my life at risk, but that's another story. I don't claim to know everything about pregnancy and birth, but neither does anyone. I do claim to know my body, though, better than anyone else. Hospitals, in my eyes, are there for a reason, and that is for emergencies. If there was an emergency during any point in my labor and birth, I would have utilized it as such a place. 

Maz, I understand where you are coming from. However, I would also like to state that you do not know my qualifications and therefore cannot say that I have no experience. I have not been "medically trained" However, I have done internships in hospitals on the labor and delivery ward. I would hardly say that I have "no experience", and I would also say that _nobody_ knows ALL the possibilities and risks. I don't means to sound rude or condescending, please dont take it that way :flower:

UC is not for everyone. Plain and simple. I am not saying you should go out and do this, I am just opening myself up to answer questions on the subject. I think that covers all the questions that were asked. If I missed one, or you have any further questions, I am more than happy to answer them. :flower:


----------



## Bournefree

Maz1510 said:


> Congratulations on your safe arrival.
> 
> Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but *here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant. *
> As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there.
> Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.
> 
> I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced.
> 
> 
> ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that *free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. * I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience.
> 
> Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x

I have to correct the above.

As a lawyer I can tell you this is NOT true under the laws of England and Wales. 

Firstly, you have ultimate freedom to birth in your own home or anywhere without any attendants - whether you do this intentionally or not. It would be a very strange state that would make a physiological function of the human race an illegal act. This right is also enshrined in Human rights law (it was also recently commented on and examined in the case of Ternovszky v Hungary 2010 "the right concerning the decision to become a parent includes the right of choosing the circumstances of becoming a parent. The court is satisfied that the circumstances of giving birth incontestably form part of one's private life")

Secondly, the only thing that is illegal is for a person to purport to act or intend to act as a midwife. This doesn't included OHs, doulas, your grandmother.. or even a kind bin man or anyone who is present at your birth.
It is an unfortunate common misconception (even among medical professionals)

Here is the Law:
Midwifery Order 2001, Paragraph 45
1) A person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner shall not attend a women in childbirth
2) Paragraph (1) does NOT apply - 
a) where the attention is given in a case of sudden or urgent necessity; or
b) in the case of a person who, while undergoing training with a view to becoming a medical practitioner or to becoming a midwife, attends a women in childbirth as part of a course of practical instruction in midwifery recognised by the council or by the general medical council.


Had to clear that one up, as it could be very damaging to women's choices and freedoms

XXX


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## caz81

I have a question about when you registered the birth - what happened? did you have to do anything to prove you were the childs mother (DNA etc) Did they not mind there is no proof of the fact you were pregnant or independent witnesses that you gave birth to the child?


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## Guppy051708

^ I was wondering a similar question. When we fillied for my sons birth certificate, we live in New Hampshire USA, and when we filled for his SSC both needed proof of his existance (even though he was standing right there in front of him :dohh:). I understand that not everyone does SS, but what about the birth certificate? We would hve had no proof but if this is something we were thinking about doing, how would we go about the proof? We needed proof of identy for insurance too (which there is only a 30 day add period and we had to get a birth certificate and SS card first :dohh: which took basically the entire time :wacko:).


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## Maz1510

Bournefree said:


> Maz1510 said:
> 
> 
> Congratulations on your safe arrival.
> 
> Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but *here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant. *
> As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there.
> Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.
> 
> I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced.
> 
> 
> ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that *free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. * I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience.
> 
> Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x
> 
> I have to correct the above.
> 
> As a lawyer I can tell you this is NOT true under the laws of England and Wales.
> 
> Firstly, you have ultimate freedom to birth in your own home or anywhere without any attendants - whether you do this intentionally or not. It would be a very strange state that would make a physiological function of the human race an illegal act. This right is also enshrined in Human rights law (it was also recently commented on and examined in the case of Ternovszky v Hungary 2010 "the right concerning the decision to become a parent includes the right of choosing the circumstances of becoming a parent. The court is satisfied that the circumstances of giving birth incontestably form part of one's private life")
> 
> Secondly, the only thing that is illegal is for a person to purport to act or intend to act as a midwife. This doesn't included OHs, doulas, your grandmother.. or even a kind bin man or anyone who is present at your birth.
> It is an unfortunate common misconception (even among medical professionals)
> 
> Here is the Law:
> Midwifery Order 2001, Paragraph 45
> 1) A person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner shall not attend a women in childbirth
> 2) Paragraph (1) does NOT apply -
> a) where the attention is given in a case of sudden or urgent necessity; or
> b) in the case of a person who, while undergoing training with a view to becoming a medical practitioner or to becoming a midwife, attends a women in childbirth as part of a course of practical instruction in midwifery recognised by the council or by the general medical council.
> 
> 
> Had to clear that one up, as it could be very damaging to women's choices and freedoms
> 
> XXXClick to expand...



So are you saying that as long as your intend to become a midwife, professional etc that you are exempt from this law??

It is illegal for a not qualified person to purposefully act as a midwife etc. Even if it is OH/DOula etc. Obviously BBA's etc (born before arrivals) are very different cases but to act if i were "almost" qualified i would not have a leg to stand on as such if i were to act as that womens midwife and deliver her baby knowing that i have the "knowledge", just the same as i see "doctors" procedures all the time, i know the medical ins and outs, and could probably manage to deliver a baby etc, as such for a c-section but i would loose my job if i thought i could just perform this even in the case of a emergency. 

I appreciate that this is not the same, but to say it is not illegal for a doula etc to act as the midwife , even if they intend to proceed to the career is wrong. (Apologies if i interpreted your comment wrongly)

As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.


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## Guppy051708

Maz1510 said:


> As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.

...well actually there have been no studies done on the long term effect of things like pitocin and epidurals....but that is an entirely different conversation. Just saying, even the professionals dont know everything, they arn't God. Although they probably know more about it than most others.


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## Guppy051708

yes, insurance in America is VASTLY different than any other developed country in the world. It is quite sad....for instance, i can no longer afford my health insurance (in the US you are stuck paying unless you are basically broke, then you can get state help but you can only make like $250 per month or so-which if you're making that little you probably couldn't afford rent or food or anything else :dohh:). for the rest, you are expected to pay for the insurance or have none at all. We have to pay $12,000 per YEAR on our health insurance. I dont know about you but we are struggling to find that cash....so we are probably not going to be able to renew our insurance. We only have an offer through DHs job....and thats the price we have to pay which isn't affordable :nope: so now what? We dont qualify for the government insurance. That leaves us without insurance, so we can either pay out of pocket for a homebirth...except around here a homebirth midwife costs $3500...i dont have that sitting around either...so what do you propose one is to do in this situation?? Its easy, for the financial aspects, to have an unassisted birth...(though this isnt always the reason, usually not) but in my case if very well could be! this isnt a matter of being selfish about money :nope: its about NOT HAVING MONEY in the first place :(


oh an about laws, here is a real kicker...in the State of Pennsylvania (USA), its legal to attend a birth by a midwife in the hospital (though they HAVE to work under and OB and many OBs dont allow to have midwives work under them :dohh:). you can also have a hospital birth with an OB. You CAN LEGALLY have an unassisted birth. No questions asked by the law enforces. BUT if you have a homebirth with a midwife (of any type) then both you and the midwife can face legal trouble. If everything goes off without a hitch (at the homebirth) and no one tells the police, then no problem (because what they dont know they cant enforce ;)) If however, something were to go wrong and you do go to the hospital, the midwife cant go because she for sure will seek law penatlities as will you (becuase they would know about the assisted homebirth) BUT if you go in and lie and say it was unassisted, no questions asked. No law cares.....nice, huh? ....midwifery has to stay underground because of the laws....sick and twisted? huh?

The US isnt midwifery friendly or homebirth (assisted)friendly in any manner.


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## madasa

//As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.//

A little OT, but if going to school that long taught them all the risks, why are so many Western hospitals not providing evidence based care? Home birth is as safe or safer than hospital birth for low risk women. If they KNOW the risks of a hospital birth, why arent home births mire encouraged? Why are so many US women denied a VBAC? Why are so MANY cords clamped immediately? Why are so many inductions performed? Why is the CS rate so high? Either they dont "know all the risks", or worse, they do but they have to follow a flawed protocol anyway because they are trapped by "the system" or they are avoiding being sued. Is it any wonder women UC? 

I'm WTT right now and my ovaries have been singing to me. So I dusted off my birth plan and started work on it. The more I did on it, the more I thought, you know what? It's IMW or UC. It has to be. An NHS mw would consider me far too awkward, I think... And ALL I want is a hands off, physiological, motherbaby directed birth. But it seems it's too much to ask.... And the MWs round here are generally pretty good, just under staffed and short on time, etc....


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## Guppy051708

Going along with that, did you know that in the US they basically do routine c-sections for breech babies? Research says that only saves one baby per 1000 births (thats one too many, but what about the other 999 babies? Being born c-section is not a better choice for them :nope:). Also, research says that inductions, in healthy pregnancy have not proven greater outcomes. Same with repreat c-sections. The US IS a systems. That is how the system in the US works (and its pathetic). I had to fight the system tooth and nail when i went into labor due to PROM. I had to fight the system in full force prior to that as i went 41 weeks and 5 days overdue. Maybe docs in the UK are better...wish they would come over here! OBs in the US are trained in UNNORMAL births! If fact, its a bit ironic because by the time they go through med school, most have not seen unmedicated births! What most have seen and been taught is that 99% of births are NORMAL HOWEVER, and this is a BIG however, they have to treat all 100% of them as if something WILL go wrong, and thats what they do. hence the medical model :dohh: Birthing in America is unlike giving birth anywhere else, and if you were living here, you would have the potential to understand why someone would choose to not birth in a hospital or why they cant afford to birth their or in an assisted homebirth. 

My tone of voice that i am conveying is challenging online. Sorry if this sounds rude, i dont intend for that all, but just pointing out why an American woman may go unassisted (not that the OP did it for this reason) but just saying there are a plethora of reasons and why to some, birthing with a doc is NOT safer to them. It IS putting their baby at risk. That is all :D

Just for the record, i am pro homebirth with a midwife, HOWEVER, i feel that woman should birth as they please. In fact, i am considering an unassisted birth due to financial reasons, and guess what?! I am a DONA Doula and a Child birth educator.....I would not encourage (or discouarge) free birthing, but all i am saying is that woman CAN do it. Birth is not inharently unsafe. It wasn't until the last 100 years (in America) that docs were even involved...makes ya wonder how the human race even survived before midwives and OBs :dohh:

And now that ive written a book :blush: i will shut up :haha: 
Lets get back to the questions :D


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## madasa

Guppy, really, I'm in the UK and the NHS midwives are not "enough" for me... And sheesh, I know that many women in the US would just LOVE to have MWs like we do here!!!! If *I* can understand the attraction of a UC, even be tempted by one (even if I think ill never do that myself), then heck YES I can understand why a US lady would do it. Absolutely.


----------



## tristansmum

Guppy051708 said:


> yes, insurance in America is VASTLY different than any other developed country in the world. It is quite sad....for instance, i can no longer afford my health insurance (in the US you are stuck paying unless you are basically broke, then you can get state help but you can only make like $250 per month or so-which if you're making that little you probably couldn't afford rent or food or anything else :dohh:). for the rest, you are expected to pay for the insurance or have none at all. We have to pay $12,000 per YEAR on our health insurance. I dont know about you but we are struggling to find that cash....so we are probably not going to be able to renew our insurance. We only have an offer through DHs job....and thats the price we have to pay which isn't affordable :nope: so now what? We dont qualify for the government insurance. That leaves us without insurance, so we can either pay out of pocket for a homebirth...except around here a homebirth midwife costs $3500...i dont have that sitting around either...so what do you propose one is to do in this situation?? Its easy, for the financial aspects, to have an unassisted birth...(though this isnt always the reason, usually not) but in my case if very well could be! this isnt a matter of being selfish about money :nope: its about NOT HAVING MONEY in the first place :(
> 
> 
> oh an about laws, here is a real kicker...in the State of Pennsylvania (USA), its legal to attend a birth by a midwife in the hospital (though they HAVE to work under and OB and many OBs dont allow to have midwives work under them :dohh:). you can also have a hospital birth with an OB. You CAN LEGALLY have an unassisted birth. No questions asked by the law enforces. BUT if you have a homebirth with a midwife (of any type) then both you and the midwife can face legal trouble. If everything goes off without a hitch (at the homebirth) and no one tells the police, then no problem (because what they dont know they cant enforce ;)) If however, something were to go wrong and you do go to the hospital, the midwife cant go because she for sure will seek law penatlities as will you (becuase they would know about the assisted homebirth) BUT if you go in and lie and say it was unassisted, no questions asked. No law cares.....nice, huh? ....midwifery has to stay underground because of the laws....sick and twisted? huh?
> 
> The US isnt midwifery friendly or homebirth (assisted)friendly in any manner.


Makes me happy to have had my baby here in england... i did have hospital birth. wanted the birth centre but was high risk due to obstetric cholestasis. i did have goodd care i feel. i can understand your problems over there. i hope all works out well for you. i wouldn't want to have to make decisions about where i give birth and who is present based on the cost. seems so unfair xxxxx


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## Guppy051708

It is. I was sincere when i said i wish your birth professionals would come over here :( :friends:
Also, i do apologize with my tone. Its not you-honest, i respect everyone's opinions. Its just a touchy subject with me :blush: not you- just the us system in general :(


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## Guppy051708

madasa said:


> Guppy, really, I'm in the UK and the NHS midwives are not "enough" for me... And sheesh, I know that many women in the US would just LOVE to have MWs like we do here!!!! If *I* can understand the attraction of a UC, even be tempted by one (even if I think ill never do that myself), then heck YES I can understand why a US lady would do it. Absolutely.

Lets switch places :D hahaha JUST KIDDING. i would never wish any woman to birth here...

there are other really really dumb laws too and it varies from state to state.
For instance in the state of Colorado, you have to give birth in the same type of facility every time. Home births are allowed (with midwives) unlike Pennsyvlania law. But the thing is, if you first birth is a homebirth, all others have to be a homebirth (unless there is an emergency). If your first birth is a hospital birth, by law you have to give birth in the hospital with all other babies. If your first birth is a birth center birth, then you have to, by law, give birth at a birth center. Isn't that nuts!!!!?!?! Like what if one had a terrible birth experience in a hospital and now, legally, they are stuck with all other babies there. It is such a sad and twisted thing ....insurance companys and OBs have WAYYY too much power...

Yall should watch "The Business of Being Born" its on NetFlix and possibly on YouTube or online. Also, "Born in america"


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## Maz1510

I do think the USA are WAY OVER medicalised and it is probably one of the best cases where the NHS works. I agree that alot of problems result in staff shortages, but i am totally for low risk homebirths etc. I do believe that a "low Risk" women is better at home- there is no evidence to show a more negative outcome for this, and yes it prevents intervention for "low risk" and try my best to encourage women to do so and feel supported.

Honestly with all the Insurance and red tape in the US i can see why ppl feel that UC is their best option, i just personally dont agree... but i was taught to think that way i suppose! 

x


----------



## tristansmum

Guppy051708 said:


> madasa said:
> 
> 
> Guppy, really, I'm in the UK and the NHS midwives are not "enough" for me... And sheesh, I know that many women in the US would just LOVE to have MWs like we do here!!!! If *I* can understand the attraction of a UC, even be tempted by one (even if I think ill never do that myself), then heck YES I can understand why a US lady would do it. Absolutely.
> 
> Lets switch places :D hahaha JUST KIDDING. i would never wish any woman to birth here...
> 
> there are other really really dumb laws too and it varies from state to state.
> For instance in the state of Colorado, you have to give birth in the same type of facility every time. Home births are allowed (with midwives) unlike Pennsyvlania law. But the thing is, if you first birth is a homebirth, all others have to be a homebirth (unless there is an emergency). If your first birth is a hospital birth, by law you have to give birth in the hospital with all other babies. If your first birth is a birth center birth, then you have to, by law, give birth at a birth center. Isn't that nuts!!!!?!?! Like what if one had a terrible birth experience in a hospital and now, legally, they are stuck with all other babies there. It is such a sad and twisted thing ....insurance companys and OBs have WAYYY too much power...
> 
> Yall should watch "The Business of Being Born" its on NetFlix and possibly on YouTube or online. Also, "Born in america"Click to expand...

i saw "the business of being born' on you tube and i was totally shocked. OBGYNs saying they had never seen a natural birth! I know in uk drs tend to see more complex births as MW attend any "normal" birth. My friend had her baby in a birth centre attached to labour ward and it was a really quiet night so one of the doctors asked if she could be there during her birth as she wanted to see a lovely straight forward birth. BUT its nothing like as bad as you guys have. I'm finding this tread so interesting. I remember seeing a programme on freeing birthing in UK a few years ago and at the time i thought the women were very irresponsible. One lady was about 2 hours from any hospital (which i still think is mad) BUT this tread has opened my eyes. So interesting to read about peoples experiences and thoughts. Now for me i would not even want a home birth (and when i attempt a VBAC next time i will want to be in a hospital for certain) so an unassisted birth is definately not my thing. you ladies have let me understand why its done by some women and although i can't say i totally agree with it... i do respect your decisions and view it in a new light. thanks for sharing xxx


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## tristansmum

can i add i don't think any of you are "mad" just the woman who's nearest help was like 2 hours away. i don't wish to upset anyone xxxxxxxx


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## Guppy051708

aww hun you havn't upset anyone :friends:
View points are a good thing and i fully respect yours as well :D


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## Nikki_d72

I fell pretty blessed to be in New Zealand, where the Midwifery model is the norm as are independant midwives, funded by the state if that's your choice of LMC. Of course the same problems exist within the hospital system as in all other "developed" nations but it seems to be much easier to step outside of that system than in the US or even the UK. For a homebirth here my independant midwife will attend (with at least 1 other, maybe 2, as it's a VBAC), not the on-call midwife. Thank you all for sharing and I agree that for a woman to have to choose to undertake UC solely for financial reasons is diabolical. Of course if it is chosen due to that woman's personal beliefs then that is fine by me, but no-one should be forced down this route as the only alternative to medicalised birth simply due to lack of funds or insurance. All the best to all of you, I hope you all get the best outcomes for your families.


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## Bournefree

Maz1510 said:


> Bournefree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maz1510 said:
> 
> 
> Congratulations on your safe arrival.
> 
> Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but *here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant. *
> As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there.
> Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.
> 
> I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced.
> 
> 
> ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that *free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. * I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience.
> 
> Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x
> 
> I have to correct the above.
> 
> As a lawyer I can tell you this is NOT true under the laws of England and Wales.
> 
> Firstly, you have ultimate freedom to birth in your own home or anywhere without any attendants - whether you do this intentionally or not. It would be a very strange state that would make a physiological function of the human race an illegal act. This right is also enshrined in Human rights law (it was also recently commented on and examined in the case of Ternovszky v Hungary 2010 "the right concerning the decision to become a parent includes the right of choosing the circumstances of becoming a parent. The court is satisfied that the circumstances of giving birth incontestably form part of one's private life")
> 
> Secondly, the only thing that is illegal is for a person to purport to act or intend to act as a midwife. This doesn't included OHs, doulas, your grandmother.. or even a kind bin man or anyone who is present at your birth.
> It is an unfortunate common misconception (even among medical professionals)
> 
> Here is the Law:
> Midwifery Order 2001, Paragraph 45
> 1) A person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner shall not attend a women in childbirth
> 2) Paragraph (1) does NOT apply -
> a) where the attention is given in a case of sudden or urgent necessity; or
> b) in the case of a person who, while undergoing training with a view to becoming a medical practitioner or to becoming a midwife, attends a women in childbirth as part of a course of practical instruction in midwifery recognised by the council or by the general medical council.
> 
> 
> Had to clear that one up, as it could be very damaging to women's choices and freedoms
> 
> XXXClick to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So are you saying that as long as your intend to become a midwife, professional etc that you are exempt from this law??
> 
> It is illegal for a not qualified person to purposefully act as a midwife etc. Even if it is OH/DOula etc. Obviously BBA's etc (born before arrivals) are very different cases but to act if i were "almost" qualified i would not have a leg to stand on as such if i were to act as that womens midwife and deliver her baby knowing that i have the "knowledge", just the same as i see "doctors" procedures all the time, i know the medical ins and outs, and could probably manage to deliver a baby etc, as such for a c-section but i would loose my job if i thought i could just perform this even in the case of a emergency.
> 
> I appreciate that this is not the same, but to say it is not illegal for a doula etc to act as the midwife , even if they intend to proceed to the career is wrong. (Apologies if i interpreted your comment wrongly)
> 
> As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.Click to expand...

Sorry, I think you have interpreted me wrong - Or I haven&#8217;t made it clear.
I'm not saying that any man and his dog whether they be a trainee MW or a doula are exempt and free from prosecution if they purposely intend to act as a midwife. It is illegal for anyone to do so. (I should have made that clearer when I mentioned the bin man etc)

This act was made to stop a lay-person from pretending to be a MW or a medical person with a women in childbirth. It is not to prosecute someone who is in the same room as a women in child birth offering support or encouragement and be in _ attendance_ i.e present, but they can not _ attend _ to the women. (there in lies the difference). So, if a person did something physical to the mother (attended her) or they were saying they intended to act or be a MW (which wasn't in an emergency) they would be liable to be prosecuted. 
If it is an emergency, (imminent point of birth would count as an emergency) such as in paragraph 2.. paragraph 1 doesn't apply. Say there isn't a MW or medical professional available or even if there is a MW present an they need assistance with the mother, then ANY lay-person (the bin man, even a trainee MW OR trainee Doctor) could _attend_ to the mother. (with her consent - if possible)
You wouldn't loose your job if you attended a women in an emergency (anyone can). However if you are a trainee MW you can&#8217;t touch a women (certainly not without consent anyway.. But neither can any registered MW) if it isn&#8216;t an emergency unless it is part of your training and a registered MW is also in attendance. 
However, if it was an emergency (no professionals available) and you were not with a women as part of your training, and you failed to act (unless asked not to by the women) you could certainly be sued, or worst case is, if the mother then died as a result of your negligence, you could be liable for murder by omission.

To summarise 
- There is NO law against unassisted childbirth in England and Wales; 
- Anyone can be present.. but they can't pretend to be a MW; 
- Plus anyone can assist in an emergency and attend the mother.

It is very important everybody knows this; I would hate to think that any MW could be telling any pregnant women it is illegal to birth unassisted in the UK or to have there nearest, dearest or trusted with them, or for their nearest and dearest or bin man to help a women in child birth if needed.

I'll happily answer any questions, so it can be fully understood. 
Xxx


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## Mummytofour

This thread is fab!:thumbup: I am expecting number 5 in four weeks and as my last labour was only 2 hours, my MIL will take an hour to arrive to look after the children and my hospital is an hour away, I may have to have an unassisted homebirth myself!:wacko:

I have searched the net for similar experiences to educate myself on the "risk factors" etc and as the original poster says, I know my body better than anyone else, so if I feel I won't make the hospital,I am quite prepared to birth at home unassisted.:thumbup:

I agree we over medicalise birth and in a low risk pregnancy, being at home can be so much more relaxing.

Can I ask what kind of reaction you got from other people in real life after you gave birth? Was it admiration or negativity?:flower:


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## silver_penny

In regards to reactions from people, most people whom we believe might have a negative reaction, we honestly don't tell them it was unassisted. The reason behind this was because we do plan on having more children, more than likely unassisted. The responses of people we have told, however, are more shock and admiration. My husband has been congratulated, had his hand shook, and been praised for catching our son. He's quite proud of the achievement himself. Outside of my husband's family, though, we've only told a handful of people. We even tell my parents that there was a midwife there. :blush:


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## Tegans Mama

Congratulations! 

Can I just ask another question. I am in no way trying to offend anyone, but this is something that has not been raised on this thread yet. We've had people accusing the OP of endangering her unborn childs life through things going wrong in child birth, but no one has mentioned this. 

What would you have done, had your baby been born with a birth defect that requires immediate medical attention? I have no experience with other birth defects but my daughter has spina bifida. If I was not in a hospital when she was born, she would certainly not be here now. Her SB is one of the more extreme cases - very rarely do you see a defect as large as hers it - but it happens. It doesn't just happen to people you know. It could happen to you. 

I was 20 when I gave birth. Tegan's SB was diagnosed prenatally via U/S. It doesn't just happen to people who are old or unhealthy - I was healthy as a horse, and young. I jumped through ALL the hoops. Your baby could have had any number of things wrong it, things that you simply cannot detect without proper health care. I have no qualms whatsoever with freebirthing - Your body, your baby. I do have qualms with such a shocking lack of prenatal care :(

When a baby is born with Sb, it has a defect on its back which is open to the world. In the most common type of SB, there is a thin membrane covering the opening which more often than not, bursts during childbirth. The spinal canal is attached to the brain and the liquid which surrounds the brain subsequently leaks out of the newly formed hole (which is sometimes the size of a penny... and sometimes the size of your fist, in Tegan's case). If things can get out, things can get in. Bacteria entering that defect is life threatening, and it DOES kill babies with SB. Did you know the protocol if you were to give birth to a baby with SB? 

Once again, I reiterate, I have no problems at all with freebirthing. I just think it should be accompanied by at least one ultrasound towards the end of a pregnancy to ensure the fetus is healthy.


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## silver_penny

If my child had a birth defect, such as spina bifida, the ambulance would have been called immediately. Emergency services takes less than 5 minutes to get to my house. Birth defects would be considered an emergency.

This being said, I am against ultrasounds. We wouldn't have them done whether we went to an OB or a midwife, so in regards to that being lacking in my care, it wouldn't have been there no matter what type of prenatal care I got. I did all the prenatal care that I would have recieved going to a midwife or an OB.

BTW, I have to add that your daughter is gorgeous!


----------



## Maz1510

Bournefree said:


> Maz1510 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bournefree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maz1510 said:
> 
> 
> Congratulations on your safe arrival.
> 
> Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but *here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant. *
> As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there.
> Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.
> 
> I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced.
> 
> 
> ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that *free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. * I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience.
> 
> Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x
> 
> I have to correct the above.
> 
> As a lawyer I can tell you this is NOT true under the laws of England and Wales.
> 
> Firstly, you have ultimate freedom to birth in your own home or anywhere without any attendants - whether you do this intentionally or not. It would be a very strange state that would make a physiological function of the human race an illegal act. This right is also enshrined in Human rights law (it was also recently commented on and examined in the case of Ternovszky v Hungary 2010 "the right concerning the decision to become a parent includes the right of choosing the circumstances of becoming a parent. The court is satisfied that the circumstances of giving birth incontestably form part of one's private life")
> 
> Secondly, the only thing that is illegal is for a person to purport to act or intend to act as a midwife. This doesn't included OHs, doulas, your grandmother.. or even a kind bin man or anyone who is present at your birth.
> It is an unfortunate common misconception (even among medical professionals)
> 
> Here is the Law:
> Midwifery Order 2001, Paragraph 45
> 1) A person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner shall not attend a women in childbirth
> 2) Paragraph (1) does NOT apply -
> a) where the attention is given in a case of sudden or urgent necessity; or
> b) in the case of a person who, while undergoing training with a view to becoming a medical practitioner or to becoming a midwife, attends a women in childbirth as part of a course of practical instruction in midwifery recognised by the council or by the general medical council.
> 
> 
> Had to clear that one up, as it could be very damaging to women's choices and freedoms
> 
> XXXClick to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So are you saying that as long as your intend to become a midwife, professional etc that you are exempt from this law??
> 
> It is illegal for a not qualified person to purposefully act as a midwife etc. Even if it is OH/DOula etc. Obviously BBA's etc (born before arrivals) are very different cases but to act if i were "almost" qualified i would not have a leg to stand on as such if i were to act as that womens midwife and deliver her baby knowing that i have the "knowledge", just the same as i see "doctors" procedures all the time, i know the medical ins and outs, and could probably manage to deliver a baby etc, as such for a c-section but i would loose my job if i thought i could just perform this even in the case of a emergency.
> 
> I appreciate that this is not the same, but to say it is not illegal for a doula etc to act as the midwife , even if they intend to proceed to the career is wrong. (Apologies if i interpreted your comment wrongly)
> 
> As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I think you have interpreted me wrong - Or I havent made it clear.
> I'm not saying that any man and his dog whether they be a trainee MW or a doula are exempt and free from prosecution if they purposely intend to act as a midwife. It is illegal for anyone to do so. (I should have made that clearer when I mentioned the bin man etc)
> 
> This act was made to stop a lay-person from pretending to be a MW or a medical person with a women in childbirth. It is not to prosecute someone who is in the same room as a women in child birth offering support or encouragement and be in _ attendance_ i.e present, but they can not _ attend _ to the women. (there in lies the difference). So, if a person did something physical to the mother (attended her) or they were saying they intended to act or be a MW (which wasn't in an emergency) they would be liable to be prosecuted.
> If it is an emergency, (imminent point of birth would count as an emergency) such as in paragraph 2.. paragraph 1 doesn't apply. Say there isn't a MW or medical professional available or even if there is a MW present an they need assistance with the mother, then ANY lay-person (the bin man, even a trainee MW OR trainee Doctor) could _attend_ to the mother. (with her consent - if possible)
> You wouldn't loose your job if you attended a women in an emergency (anyone can). However if you are a trainee MW you cant touch a women (certainly not without consent anyway.. But neither can any registered MW) if it isnt an emergency unless it is part of your training and a registered MW is also in attendance.
> However, if it was an emergency (no professionals available) and you were not with a women as part of your training, and you failed to act (unless asked not to by the women) you could certainly be sued, or worst case is, if the mother then died as a result of your negligence, you could be liable for murder by omission.
> 
> To summarise
> - There is NO law against unassisted childbirth in England and Wales;
> - Anyone can be present.. but they can't pretend to be a MW;
> - Plus anyone can assist in an emergency and attend the mother.
> 
> It is very important everybody knows this; I would hate to think that any MW could be telling any pregnant women it is illegal to birth unassisted in the UK or to have there nearest, dearest or trusted with them, or for their nearest and dearest or bin man to help a women in child birth if needed.
> 
> I'll happily answer any questions, so it can be fully understood.
> XxxClick to expand...


Yes i think your original post was misinterpreted i apologise. 
I agree and am not saying that someone that helped a women in an emergency or a baby that was born before professionals arrive etc are acting illegally. Im simply saying to purposefully intend to deliver someones baby is no matter who you are. I am not suggesting those offering support are doing so. 
I am involved in a interesting case at present surrounding similar circumstances - due to ongoing and confidentiality i can not explain, but it probably explains my seemingly *although unintentional* harsh post. 

Please do not think that i am a midwife that goes around telling ladies if they choose no professional it is illegal but i would provide them with all the info on the law in terms of other ppl intending to deliver babies etc as well as supervisory support for both the mother and baby welfare as well as support for the midwifery team. 


xxx


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## Guppy051708

yeah, actually being in the birthing world as much as i am, i have found many many woman who do not want ultra sounds done. Especially since the risk is sort of unknown. So even woman that birth with an OB in a hospital or a midwife at home, they do not want ultrasounds either. Certainly the majority of woman get them done, but there is a great amount that dont want to take any risk that could be invloved with ultrasound whether they are seeking outside sources of prenatal care or not (like an OB or midwife)


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## Beckcalifjd

A mommy who tore while birthing unassisted and needed stitches told me she set up a mirror, bought some superglue and literally superglued the folds of skin back together. She says it worked like a charm. If you are reluctant to do surgery on yourself OH could do it.


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## Guppy051708

or you could just go to the hospital to get the stitching done if neither of you feel comfortable doing it :)


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## open lotus

unassisted homebirther here too :)
I am now 15 weeks with my 5th baby :)

good luck everyone x


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## Sam292

Beckcalifjd said:


> A mommy who tore while birthing unassisted and needed stitches told me she set up a mirror, bought some superglue and literally superglued the folds of skin back together. She says it worked like a charm. If you are reluctant to do surgery on yourself OH could do it.

I'm fairly sure you are not supposed to use superglue on your skin - I would imagine its very easy to get wrong and could get infected.


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## MrsPOP

Wow. What a fascinating thread! And it's lovely to see it hadn't descended into a fight like a previous freebirthing discussion I've seen. Yay for respectful BnBers! :)

I'm glad you got the birth you wanted, I know to most ladies it is SO important to have the birth they want. (I'm more of a 'go with the flow'-er, haven't got a birth plan and happy to trust the medical professionals because I am one myself).

I haven't yet read your birth story (that's next) but I assume it expands on the reason why you chose to go for UC?

I'd never heard of freebirthing/UC before joining BnB. My initial opinion was it was irresponsible and dangerous when I read how some women intended to do it (or were encouraged to do it) without preparing for it appropriately or doing any research. Even now I find the concept too risky in general. But I must say I admire your dedication to what you wanted and the intensive research you had done to prepare for your UC, knowledge is power! I also admire your openess and honesty in posting this thread. Thankyou :)

I can understand more why some US ladies contemplate it due to the extreme medicalisation of childbirth. I wouldn't think it would be as popular with UK ladies as homebirths with MWs present are encouraged and increasingly popular. Unfortunately with the government cuts to the NHS we've already seen reduced homebirthing services or in some cases even stopped completely so I have a feeling we may see freebirthing numbers rise in the UK. 

Great thread, thanks for posting it :)


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## MrsPOP

Ps. I really wouldn't advise supergluing wounds! Especially tears from childbirth. Even medical glue isn't used on deeper wounds.


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## silver_penny

Agreed on the superglue... The best thing for a tear, if you don't have it stitched, is to have it heal naturally. Keep it clean, avoid stairs, keep your legs together as much as possible (avoid sitting cross-legged), and do kegel excercises (increases blood flow to the area to help with faster healing)


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## Guppy051708

^Agreed....super glue....not so much fun..i wouldnt think...thats just crazy lol


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## lousielou

I'm not suggesting people give it a go either, but superglue was actually developed during the Vietnam war as a glue to stick wounds together quickly :)


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## Guppy051708

^ that is a creative idea though...but modernity has come a long way ;)
Although, i suppose if its THAT bad and there was no way to get it stitched and it really needed it, its not a terrible idea...but personally it would be an extremely last resort for me. :thumbup:


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## mamawannabee

I just wanted to say thank you so much for posting this thread, even though I know it is pretty old. Another woman gave me the links on a recent thread I had posted, as I have been looking for more information on UC and have found little support on here because not many women have experienced it. I am still pretty torn on whether or not we will be following through with it, but this has given me a better background on what the experience could be like, especially your birth story. I hope more women consider this idea as the result of your story; the US has turned childbirth into such an unnatural, medicalized process which it is not at all. It is normal, natural, and our bodies are built to manage it.


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## Guppy051708

^Im using the "thanks" button as a "like" button ;)


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