# Is locking a child in a bedroom at night something to report...?!



## loverguts

Ok, I moved into a new house in December, the neighbours have a 4 year old girl and an 18 month old boy, I don't know if I'm really over reacting but they definitely must lock their 4 year old in her room at bedtime, which is normally around 10/11pm, she screams and screams and bashes/kicks the door for about an hour every night, and that's not an exaggeration!
I can deal with the fact that is disturbs my kids thanks to the paper thin walls of old houses but I feel reallllly sorry for the poor mite!

Is it a normal thing to do?! I hear them shout at their kids A LOT. They also both cry a lot during the day/evening. 

They are an Indian family and my boyfriend seems to think its just their culture to leave their kids to cry etc, I'm not sure if that's actually true whatsoever!! I have tried making conversation with both parents to hopefully see if they seem like nice people but they kind of make it obvious they don't want to converse with me. 

There are some nights that the girl will wake around 3/4 and scream and scream. I know its her because I hear her screaming to please open the door which I doubt their 18 month old can do! It scares the hell out of me!

How would you go about saying something? Is that just butting my beak in? Is it something I can report to social services so they can check on the kids or is that COMPLETELY over the top?


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## special_kala

My kids can be screamers, sometimes for fun sometimes because their upset, so the screaming wouldnt concern me too much.

I dont agree with locking kids in their room though, its cruel.


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## TryinFor1

If a child is screaming to please unlock the door, that sounds borderline torturous to me. I would probably call and report it. If the family is deemed fit then fine. But they could potentially be.neglecting their kids.plus they yell at them all the time?

Yelling at their kids all the time+locking them in their room+not unlocking the door when being begged to= me calling cps. I would rather over react than something happen to the children and feel like I did nothing.


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## MrsPear

Personally I think you should call social services and say exactly what you have seen or heard and let them decide if it is an issue to pursue. I don't think it's really clear if it's normal or not from this small snapshot because a lot of kids scream and so on, but begging for the door to be opened in the middle of the night does sound a bit strange (might be perfectly innocent too).


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## Zinky

Gosh that's a difficult situation to be in.
I'm Indian and it is definitely NOT in our culture to leave our babies to cry or even lock them in their bedroom! 
I would normally say keep out of people's business but if a child is suffering I would contact social services.


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## chipsticks

It's a very hard thing to judge, my neighbour done it cos the child kept going downstairs (stairgate in place!) so he was safer locked in his room! He's not locked in anymore and goes down every morning now and turns on all the lights, but he is now old enough to know to stay away from the dangerous things. My LO screams at closed doors if the dog is behind them...and sometimes cos she can, they mightn't talk to you cos they are embarrassed that they have loud kids...


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## loverguts

Does anyone know of they will know it was me who reported them? They take their girl in ridiculously late to primary school most days (after 11 usually) and I know she is definitely meant to be there for 9, would they maybe assume the school reported them rather than me? I'm just a little worried about how they might react if they knew it was me!

The thing is, I also hear the kids playing and laughing a lot too, and she always skips out happy and smiling to the car in the morning (I sound like such a nosey neighbour, but I've been keeping an eye the past few weeks to try and see how they interact with their kids!!), its just mainly the bashing on the door that I feel is wrong, think that's why I'm hesitant about calling someone, argh!


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## staralfur

My first thought is that it's maybe a last resort for a child that doesn't sleep/gets up at night and wanders around the house. But if it's happening for at least an hour every night then it's obviously not working.


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## staralfur

My LO kicks and bangs on the door when she's up from her nap, basically to let us know she's awake. She's perfectly happy when she does it but it's loud!


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## chipsticks

staralfur said:


> My LO kicks and bangs on the door when she's up from her nap, basically to let us know she's awake. She's perfectly happy when she does it but it's loud!

I'm forward thinking cos LO is still in a cot bed with the sides on...but in the mornings she stands up and bounces screaming hello till one of us gets her...once the sides are off I presume she'll scream bang and shout!


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## housewifey

There is an anonymous number you can phone to report things like this, just explain that you think they are nice and not exactly abusing their children but maybe just don't know a fairer way or dealing with bedtime or waking up during the night etc. I don't think locking the door is fair though.

My friend did this (phoned social services because they could hear next doors little girl screaming and banging) Social services came and made them remove the door and replace it with one without a lock!


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## Iveneverseen

Wow that is very wrong, and you don't know what is going on. why would you lock a child in a room, and the child is screaming ect. it sounds like abuse/neglect to me. I would defo report it. next time it happens call the police. x


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## Ice Cold Cube

That must be awful to hear. If it were me, I'd probably report it to be on the safe side. Poor little girl :(

That said, my boy has night terrors sometimes as well as terrible temper tantrums now and again. The night terrors can sound like he's being tortured! I often think my neighbours will report us because of all the noise Alex can make - seriously. He is suspected ASD/ADHD so getting him to calm down can take quite a while.

Laura x


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## MumMumMum

How do you know the door is locked? Could it just be that she can't open it herself? My two year old can climb out of bed and open doors but she chooses to call for us when she wakes up instead. My point being that kids aren't all that logical.

As for the screaming could it be tantrums? Again, my two year old can kick up a big fuss if she doesn't get her own way (more TV, snacks before dinner, put her shoes on etc). She has also had night terrors where she can scream and cry for 1hr plus in the night and we have done all we can for her and are with her. 

I'm not saying that it isn't something to report but pointing out it could all be innocent. The parents could be doing their best while the kid goes through a tough time.

Any chance you could suggest them coming in for a cuppa or something (even with other neighbours too?). As you are new there you could make out it's a house warming thing?


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## loverguts

MumMumMum said:


> How do you know the door is locked? Could it just be that she can't open it herself? My two year old can climb out of bed and open doors but she chooses to call for us when she wakes up instead. My point being that kids aren't all that logical.
> 
> As for the screaming could it be tantrums? Again, my two year old can kick up a big fuss if she doesn't get her own way (more TV, snacks before dinner, put her shoes on etc). She has also had night terrors where she can scream and cry for 1hr plus in the night and we have done all we can for her and are with her.
> 
> I'm not saying that it isn't something to report but pointing out it could all be innocent. The parents could be doing their best while the kid goes through a tough time.
> 
> Any chance you could suggest them coming in for a cuppa or something (even with other neighbours too?). As you are new there you could make out it's a house warming thing?

This is kind of why I'm not sure if I'm just sticking my beak in! I'm just assuming that the door is locked purely because sometimes she screams for them to please open it but I guess its plausible that she knows not to open it (I would rather know it was that than there being a lock!).

I did say hello to the mum a few days ago with the intention of seeing if she wanted to let our 18 month olds have a play date but she didn't even reply with a hello!! I'm really confused to be honest, maybe I will just persevere with trying to get to know them?!


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## Dragonfly

If she cant read door or it is locked surely a parent would come to the kicking and screaming the neighbors can hear? I would report this. I dont know how you keep your cool. Hearing a child in distress kicking and screaming at a door would have me really upset. My other half wouldnt even keep his mouth shut and would be at their door. (any one notice how men get away with saying stuff woman cant?)


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## MommyJogger

Completely ignoring my appalled thoughts on their parenting choices: I guess it must really depend on the child, and maybe I've only had experience with a couple of really well-behaved 4 year olds, but I would think that by four you'd _want _them to have the ability to get out of the house in an emergency? I can understand 'trapping' a child that doesn't know to stay in the house or to stay away from dangerous objects and couldn't escape a fire without assistance anyway, but at 4, putting a child in a place they can't escape screams fire hazard to me. 
It's probably something I'd report, specifically because you don't know if they have a history with CPS and less-than-stellar childcare practices. You don't know if there's anything going on that CPS would actually address, but they can always make that call themselves as trained professionals and if these parents have any kind of history of abuse that isn't immediately apparent to you (it sounds like your gut is leaning in this direction maybe), CPS will have record and can step in on the children's behalf.
My standard for whether it's abusive/neglectful has always been whether we'd accept the same kind of treatment for the elderly or handicapped or other adult person who needs assistance in daily tasks. And I don't think anyone would say that leaving an elderly woman locked in a room begging to get out for an hour at a time is okay.


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## MumMumMum

It seems most people have made their minds up on this one. I wouldn't personally assume they are being bad parents myself. My daughter can shout "Mummy come back" when I'm right next to her. We also shut the door with us in the room if she wakes up so she doesn't disturb the baby. Perhaps they are doing the same?

If you feel something is wrong then report it. I would go with your instinct rather than what some strangers say on a forum without having witnessed it for themselves. I'm sure they can't say who contacted them.

As for not saying hello back that is odd. My parents have neighbours like that. The husband is nice enough but his wife is miserable and doesn't say hi back. Don't know what her problem is but she doesn't ignore us if the husband is there so I guess it is a continuous thing when she's on her own :shrug:


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## Giggs

Definately not an indian thing, indian kids are usually molly cuddled and hugged the first sign of crying!! Well maybe just my family!

I'd report them to social services, a check up won't hurt, at least if something bad is going on then it could be fixed...


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## Natsku

Hard to tell really, best to go with your instinct. I had to lock Maria in her room (with a stairgate) for a long time because she knew how to open the front door so it wasn't safe to have her be able to get out of her room at night, and everytime she woke she would shout and scream for me to open it but not for an hour so that seems a bit excessive but who knows the reasons.


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## liz1985

I would report it. Its impossible to know whats really going on, but if its nothing then nothing will come of it anyway and I think its better to be safe than sorry.

Ss can say who reported them. We reported a family at my nursery and they were told it was us, and my sister had to report a friend and they told then as well, which as you can imagine caused a lot of upsett. I'm not sure if they are supposed to tell but just so you know they might. You could just not give your details and remain anonymous but from the information you give your neighbours would probably know it was you anyway, as school etc wouldnt know what went off in the middle of the night.


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## MiniKiwi

How sad :(

I'd definitely tell someone.


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## babycrazy1706

Could it be that she just can't open the door and not that she's 'locked' in. She could just be having a tantrum bcos she doesn't want to go to bed and the family are letting her cry it out.?


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## Button#

I would call and allow SS to assess. I would rather be safe than sorry. It may not mean anything on it's own but if there are other reports it may be important for them to know. You can remain anonymous but they may figure out it's you.


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## Rachel_C

I don't think it makes a difference whether the door is locked or whether she just can't open it. It's exactly the same to the child either way - can't get out! I would report it if you are in any way concerned - you're not able to make that assessment but SS are. I don't know if leaving a child to cry in a closed room is really any different to doing CIO with a baby in a cot, and I don't think SS would be bothered about that... but you never know. There may be other issues that would concern or reassure them.


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## sparkle_1979

It's hard to tell and I wouldn't like to be in this situation BUT I think you should call, better to have social services assess the situation and everything be fine rather than left and a child be neglected


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## TinySunshine

If these parents need help realising that it's not healthy to be so unresponsive to their child calling from their room upset, and a change in attitude is needed here, social services will NOT help, or guide them in any way. I've experienced reported end of this situation. I love my son with all my heart and it wasn't abuse, it was not figured out how to deal with things, because a tantrum in response to my kind and gentle approach was disheartening. Now I've connected with my child, have the steam to work with him through his objections to sleep, etc and that's half because of his leaving that phase and becoming calmer and my own personal growth and realising the kind of parent I want to be and how the way things were going wasn't supporting our bond.
Social services in no way helped, they offered no support, advice, tips, nor kindness. Nothing. In fact their involvement in my life was a period of stress and hell. If you've seen the kids happy at other times then I'd suggest that you give the parents a chance to realise first before subjecting them to that because if the situation gets resolved I can guarantee it wouldn't be because SS had a nice chat about parenting methods, responsiveness and guidance through tantrums. I did allll that allll by myself, SS just asked nosey questions for their file, and inspected the house when that's absolutely nothing to do with the original issue. I can understand that as a check alongside related support listed a few sentences ago, but like I said they don't help, they just watch you struggle and keep noting it down until theyve built enough of a report to remove the children. Especially if it's an indian family, they might not be treated equally or fairly (institutional racism).
Please please, even if you do intend to report, before doing anything at least give it a try to print off different pages on dealing with bedtime, tantrums, attachment parenting etc, try posting them through the letter box for a few weeks. See if anything improves as a result. I can post the type of print outs I mean when I get to a computer on Monday. 
Obviously review your decision not to report if anything gets worse or that doesn't make them realise after several leaflet postings. In which case to be fair you should mention the times the kids are happy as well as the times they've cried.


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## SabrinaKat

I personally would be worried, for instance if there was a fire. 

However, if the child can unlock a stair gate, it might be safer for the room to be locked?

I just had a thought -- how are they locking the door? Is there a key on the outside? and can you prove that the child is locked in?

I'd be careful because allegations that are ultimately disproved could backfire on you and make living with these neighbours very difficult. You could approach them in a friendly way and say that you heard the toddler very upset last night and you know what that's like, etc? Show a concern and you might find out a reason for the child being locked in (for instance, I used to sleepwalk so it was for my own safety)....

hugs!


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## Blue12

The rule here is that you make the phone call to child services and tell them your concern and then it's up to them to look into it and find out or determine if it is improper treatment of the children or just sounds way worse than it really is. 

I know that's an awkward position to be in but by calling and experts gettin involved you could be helping those kids or helping those parents find a better solution of how to handle bed time.


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## Birdling

I would go to the school and tell them what you are hearing. They will already be aware of something since the little girl turns up so late and they may already have contact with SS. If they don't, they can chat with the little girl and see if she says anything that concerns them. That way, you have given a 'heads up' to some one who is more in the picture, without involving SS directly.

Just request a meeting with the headteacher, they won't dismiss your concerns as they have a legal obligation to the child. Schools use all sorts of sources of information to build up a picture before involving SS, so they are often grateful for extra info if they have concerns themselves.

:hugs:


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## TinySunshine

Social services do not help parents find a better way of how to handle bed time. That kind of information and support would come from parenting books, friends at playgroup, teachers at the school, or transcripts of threads on here. All of which the parents would not necessarily be guided to through social services. They are more likely to just take notes for their own records. This family wants access to those sources so you could post bits through to them, or tell the school they're struggling with bedtime and tantrums (which is different to being an abuser who needs monitoring).


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## Boomerslady

This is a tricky one for me, because now I'm wondering what on earth my neighbours must think about me. Ben is an absolute nightmare these last few weeks at bedtime. He's up for 1-2 hours just screaming and crying. I keep putting him back in bed because he wants to stay up and play in the living room. I want him to learn a good routine so he's sent to his room.

Some nights he screams and bangs on his door. I'm sure even once or twice (not all the time!) he's shouted let me out, not because he's locked in but because he keeps being sent back in there!!!

I'd say go with your gut though. It's a tough situation but like a PP said you're the only one who can hear and see what's going on.


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## annanouska

:wacko:I'd ring ss or speak to you own hv about it if child is screaming that much and being ignored but.... 

I do ignore my son if he tantrums and screams because if I interact in ny way at all he kicks off more. Duri g night terrors I do talk quietly and rub his back.

Only thing kind of grating me here is how many people are quick to presume locking child in is cruel. My lo has been in a bed since 15 months due to escaping ct bed. I have a stair gate on his room as well as top of stairs. He is like a ninja quick and silent he can open doors etc so without it he could easily get aroun upstairs in to bathroom, other rooms etc. it is baby proofed up there but obv things he out still get no trouble within supervised. 

He can't use a sensor pad now as he moves too much in a big bed it went offloads. So sometimes "locking a child in" is fr ther safety. If he cries I obv check on him


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## cat_reversing

as another poster said, I'd speak to the school who may already have concerns due to lateness and could try to find out what's going on without involving ss. School can then make the judgement whether to involve anyone else.
It's difficult but only you (and other neighbours?) can tell what you're hearing. our neighbours are similar, the children were 8 when they moved in and they row a lot, screaming, shouting, kids slamming and kicking doors, it goes through phases. the mum definitely has a mental issue and she screams at them the most, they scream back, lots of crying. it's not all the time tho and can go for ages not hearing anything.

maybe the mum who isn't friendly has some issues of her own or finds communicating difficult or maybe she realises you can hear what goes on.

are there other neighbours who could hear them? maybe speak to them and see what they think?


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## daddiesgift

I honestly would not report it. I'd at least go and talk to my neighbors first and make it seem its just so loud it's disturbing you. You don't know whats really going on over there, why late to school, why screaming at bedtime and they are your neighbors for however long I'd make sure it was on good terms. If you talk to them and you feel it is abuse I'd then call. Everyone has different parenting techniques and neglect is defined much differently than allowing a child to CIO especially a 4 year old. I'm an in home day care provider and you'd be surprised what parents are allowed to do that is not considered abuse or neglect. I recently had a 3 year old boy live with us for 2 weeks since his parents gone for work (military) and he would FLIP out at bedtime. With me sitting on his bed trying to calm him he would be screaming, purposely bashing his head on the wall, throwing stuff and thrashing about. His mother says he does that at home too. When I'd ask what was wrong he wanted to continue to play. This kid has that personality though. You say share a toy or let's do something else and he is screaming, throwing stuff. Not receiving any abuse or neglect, but I'm sure someone heard that through a wall and not come ask they'd think we were beating him! For daycare schedule we have to play outside and 9 out of 10 times my own 14 month old is crying and throwing a fit the whole time! He hates sun in his eyes, he hates wind, he hates the big kids playing without him, he just hates it! I've even said I'm surprised the neighbors don't call the police as there's him crying, kids running about screaming at the top of their lungs, a fight over something at some point. 

So pretty much unless you know for a fact what's going on I wouldn't waste my time calling CPS. Like I said the likeliness of them even going over there for night time screaming is slim.


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## lovelylaura

To me it doesnt sound anything serious, it just sounds like they have a child who hates bedtime. Putting a 4 year old to bed at 10pm is late and then if she is still refusing to sleep for an hour they have probably done everything they can possibly think of by age 4. Then again with the night time waking, she probably has to be left as some children dont respond well to another person with them and can wake them more. IF they lock the door its probably a safety thing. Poppy can be a madem for wondering down stairs on her own at 5am if she did this every morning then i would seriously consider 'locking' her in with a stair gate. How long have you been there? it might also be a weird stage that she is going through and not consistent. But if you feel uneasy with anything then yes you should definitely report.


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## Pixie19

With no proof the child is actually being locked in its room i wouldn't ring social services. 
Imagine being in the parents position trying everything they can to get their child to sleep only to be reported for neglect/abuse. 

Also its not 'abnormal' to not speak to your neighbours/want to converse with them. We smile at our neighbours but dont say hello or get into conversation as we like to keep ourselves to ourselves :shrug:


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## d_b

I don't know.. How long has it been going on? Maybe the parents have their own bedroom door locked and she's trying to get into their room? 

It is a tough situation. Personally I don't think it's safe for a 4 year old who tends to wake at 3am to have access to the whole house, but I also don't like the idea of locking them in.


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## Abz1982

I wouldnt ring SS. I was locked in my room as a toddler, but it was one of those chain ones, so the door could open a few cm. I was locked in as at 1yr I could climb out cot and would run riot and my room was half way up a flight of curling type stairs. I used to get out and use my mums make up to paint the walls etc so for my safetly was locked in. Also as I was extremely hyperative and would wake up lots.

Its not done me any harm.

I also have a 4yr old now..........and some nights she has woken up at 3/4am and will SCREAM when put back in her room


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## happysaurus

I think the health visitor would be a really good call - they're a good source of advice for this kind of thing and have an obligation to protect the health of under 5s. If they aren't the right people to talk to then they'll tell you who are. To me this doesn't sound like abuse but that this is how the parents are choosing to deal with their daughter's bedtime. It might not be what I'd do but it's not abuse. Of course, if there are bangs followed by crying or other reasons to suspect abuse or neglect then I'd report it.


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## deafgal

Hippo , it is very wrong. It is sad they can not handle it differently. It is a fire hazard . And the child will probably feel abused and neglected.

at least they can do is unlock once the child is asleep so they can seek help for whatsoever. Just childproof the house the best they can...but don't lock the child from their parents . That's just my opinion.(i can't hear at night so I always let my kids come and find me. But i Co sleep with them anyhow.


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## OmarsMum

I honestly wouldn't. When Omar wakes up at night some times he screams none stop for an hour, I bet the neighbours can here him screaming but can't hear me soothing, for all what you know the mum or dad might be inside the locked room with the kid to stop her from going out & disturbing her sibling. I never ever left my kid to CIO / CC , I still co-sleep & I don't get any sleep most nights but when he screams at night it seems as if some one is torturing him, he is too loud although I'm beside him in bed. 

As for going to pre-school late, I have a bad sleeper, I don't feel good about waking him up on time each & every day when I know he had a bad night sleep. His school knows about it, he even stays at home a lot, we pay full, so they have nothing to complain about, it's his 1st school year, it's been emotional for both of us, some days I feel it's better to keep him at home & give him a short break when it gets overwhelming. 

Unless there is an obvious sign of physical or emotional abuse I wouldn't report, you said that the kid seems happy 

I'd just try to get close to the family & talk to the mum before assuming that something horrible is going in there.


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## RachA

How do you actually know the door is locked? 

We have very high handles on all of our doors and my 4 year old is nowhere near tall enough to reach the handle. We pull the door shut behind us when we put her to bed and sometimes she will scream and bang and the door-but she has not actually been locked in. As far as she's concerned she's locked in so if she was able to talk she'd probably ask to have the door unlocked.


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## noon_child

Rachel_C said:


> I don't know if leaving a child to cry in a closed room is really any different to doing CIO with a baby in a cot

This is what I was thinking. If she doesn't go to bed till 11pm and then isn't up in time for school it sounds like she has a really messed up nighttime/bedtime routine or associations. Maybe she's been allowed to do what she likes till recently, but now (because of school etc.) her parents are trying CIO to get her to stay in bed. I'd be more concerned if it was in the day and she was shut in for hours, because she would be being neglected when she should be getting stimulation and nurture but at 11pm her parents have maybe reached the end of their tether and just want everyone to get some sleep - although this may be a reason in itself to mention it to social services???

Btw my child cant get out at night because the door handles are really high up. I wonder about fire safety, but at the moment it is the only way to stop the cats getting in (and although she likes them, she freaks if they go in her room). I don't do CIO but I'm sure some people would have recommended it to me with the issues we have had in the past and that would basically have been me leaving my child in a "locked" room.

It is a tricky one for sure...


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## Foogirl

Boomerslady said:


> This is a tricky one for me, because now I'm wondering what on earth my neighbours must think about me. Ben is an absolute nightmare these last few weeks at bedtime. He's up for 1-2 hours just screaming and crying. I keep putting him back in bed because he wants to stay up and play in the living room. I want him to learn a good routine so he's sent to his room.
> 
> Some nights he screams and bangs on his door. I'm sure even once or twice (not all the time!) he's shouted let me out, not because he's locked in but because he keeps being sent back in there!!!
> 
> I'd say go with your gut though. It's a tough situation but like a PP said you're the only one who can hear and see what's going on.

Yep, this went through my mind. Stand outside out house from time to time and you will hear a good deal of screaming. Abby threw a massive tantrum and was screaming "muuuuumy, coooooome baaaaaack" My heinous crime? I'd suggested she goes to her play room to get a toy to play with. We tend to leave her to her tantrums and tell her we'll come back when she stops making such a noise. She's a happy, attached, well adjusted girl. Sometimes things can sound way worse from the outside.


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## chysantheMUM

Well in answer to the post title, no I don't think locking a child in a bedroom at night is something to report. We have to lock LO in her room at night because her bedroom is at the top of the stairs and I'm scared of her clambering over the stair gate and going headlong down the stairs, so locking the door really is the safest option. We still use a baby monitor, so would be in there like a shot if there was an emergency. I actually feel quite insulted by some of the reactions on here to a locked door but anyway thats a different matter. What I will say in response to your situation is that, I'm talking about a 2 -3 year old, I really don't imagine that I would need to lock a 4 - 5 in her bedroom for safety reasons and tbh its more the screaming for an hour that sounds concerning to me. When my LO screams we go straight to her room and stay with her till she settles, I don't imagine this will change, no matter what age she is. We have never used the CIO technique but it is my understanding that even that method doesn't involve leaving them to cry it out for an hour. So that I do find concerning. Does it happen every night? If so I would consider contacting the health visitor and asking for their advice.


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## MumMumMum

chysantheMUM said:


> Well in answer to the post title, no I don't think locking a child in a bedroom at night is something to report. We have to lock LO in her room at night because her bedroom is at the top of the stairs and I'm scared of her clambering over the stair gate and going headlong down the stairs, so locking the door really is the safest option. We still use a baby monitor, so would be in there like a shot if there was an emergency. I actually feel quite insulted by some of the reactions on here to a locked door but anyway thats a different matter. What I will say in response to your situation is that, I'm talking about a 2 -3 year old, I really don't imagine that I would need to lock a 4 - 5 in her bedroom for safety reasons and tbh its more the screaming for an hour that sounds concerning to me. When my LO screams we go straight to her room and stay with her till she settles, I don't imagine this will change, no matter what age she is. We have never used the CIO technique but it is my understanding that even that method doesn't involve leaving them to cry it out for an hour. So that I do find concerning. Does it happen every night? If so I would consider contacting the health visitor and asking for their advice.

When my two year old has night terrors she can scream for 1hr+. I will be in the room with her but sometimes that can even make it worse. Comforting her was actually the worst thing to do. As soon as I stopped trying to ask what was wrong and give her a cuddle she snapped out of it.

I think reactions to this are all based on personal experience. If you haven't lived through a tough sleep period with a toddler then you don't know.


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## chysantheMUM

Thats a fair point mummummum, and I guess thats the problem, we tend to judge others by our own experiences and I have never been in a situation where my LO hasn't settled with a cuddle, so I suppose thats why I find that aspect concerning but it agree that it shouldn't make people automatically jump to the wrong conclusion, all children are different. I think the OP needs to tread carefully with this one, the family may have tried everything else and perhaps leaving her to it is a last resort. And lets face it, she needs to be in bed at that time, so trying to get her to stay in her room is essential. However, I imagine the OP will find it difficult to just forget about it, so I think she should monitor the situation for a little longer and if shes still concerned she should speak to someone and I think someone like a health visitor would be the best bet.


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## Scottish mum

I would report it just to be sure! It might be nothing but let social work decide and at least you've done your bit. Ask that social work don't bring your name into it tho. 

Again it might be harmless but they might already have a book on the family. X


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## overcomer79

Blue12 said:


> The rule here is that you make the phone call to child services and tell them your concern and then it's up to them to look into it and find out or determine if it is improper treatment of the children or just sounds way worse than it really is.
> 
> I know that's an awkward position to be in but by calling and experts gettin involved you could be helping those kids or helping those parents find a better solution of how to handle bed time.

I'd hardly consider SS experts around here. My family was harrassed with NO proof of any wrong doing simply because neighbors didn't like us because we had albinism and ruined their community! I have no trust for SS.

As regard to trusting a four year old not to sneak out of the house? I don't trust mine! I will not even take a shower if he is there alone. I just don't trust him. It's asking for trouble to trust that he won't do anything. He is in this phase of where he grabs things that don't belong to him so why wouldn't I expect for him to sneak out?

He has thrown bloody murder tantrums. His last one was two months ago. We called the dr to which their reply was to ignore. There is too much with this situation and a four year old can fabricate some stories. My son can be sitting with his door to his room opened and still scream "I WANT OUT OF MY ROOM NOW!! I'M ALL DONE". I'm sure it's easy for a neighbor to assume we are locking him in. He has also screamed at us to open the door when we closed the door to muffle the noise. Again easy to assume. I honestly think you might be reading in to it too much. My four year old is very strong willed and hard headed at times. He would certainly make a passer byer think we are beating him when he is upstairs and we are down.

I would be pissed as HELL if I was reported and they opened an investigation with no proof of any wrong doing. They are known to call and give you a ten minute warning that all of you have to be home for a drop in. I would not have the mindset "oh how lovely, they care about my children"...bullshit.


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## overcomer79

Another thought...how do you know the child is not special needs?


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## jd83

I think there could be more to it, and it could be a longstanding problem these parents have had with their child's sleep habits. It sounds like this child is getting to bed at a very late hour for her age. That's a problem, and I'm sure the parents are well aware that its a problem. Probably being overtired daily from such a late bedtime is causing this child to fight bedtime. I think we have all seen this happen with babies who get overtires; the same applies to young children who are overtired. They will fight sleep too. It's a hard cycle to break to get into a good sleep routine, and the parents may feel like they don't know WHAT to do to fix the problem. I think calling SS is jumping the gun when this could be just be a major sleep issue with this child. I agree with PP, SS isn't going to help them fix that problem. THeir job is to make sure there is no abuse going on. If there isn't, then they aren't going to be sticking around helping fix the sleep problem. They'd be moving on to more pressing issues.

I think I'd probably try and get to know the mom better, offer some help, let her know you are concerned about the sleep/screaming and wanted to know if there's anything you can do to help her.


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## Eternal

My eldest is special needs, autism, I've never locked him in his room, although I have held the door before, usually after being bitten, kicked and hurt myself and I can't physically deal with it, so I've held the door shut, my other option is to let him smash up the house and hurt his brothers. Pathos situation doesn't happen often so it's not an consistent every night thing. 

But he still has tantrums and trying to get him into bed can invoke rages, he will sit there scream and open and close his door repeatedly. Again not every night, most nights I'm able to calm him and stay with him and he settles eventually, but some nights it must sound horrendous (thankfully I live in a detached house). 

Obviously you could be right and they do lock the child in, you need to do what you think is right, personally I wouldn't given the child sounds happy and adjusted in the day, but you know the situation best


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## JASMAK

If anything, locking a child who is delayed/behind is only going to be more harmful because likely they understand less. I think that this is something you should report. Its easy for people to want to look away or not get involved, but it needs to be done. I haven't read through all the pages but this sounds disturbing. I would call police next time and say you hear banging, screaming and crying and let them investigate,


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## JASMAK

Also, another thought....my child has asd, and we have a large house, large yard and we are not close to our neighbours....so they do not hear us....BUT, if they could, I would say something....like 'sorry, Makena has autism and gets frustrated easily and I hope she isn't keeping you up'. The fact the neighbour is avoiding conversation leaves you very little choice but to call for help. Here, in Canada, its really a duty to call. It would be wrong not to. I know Blue said basically the same thing and she is also from Canada. We have a Children's helpline where you can report anonymous.


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## overcomer79

Eternal said:


> My eldest is special needs, autism, I've never locked him in his room, although I have held the door before, usually after being bitten, kicked and hurt myself and I can't physically deal with it, so I've held the door shut, my other option is to let him smash up the house and hurt his brothers. Pathos situation doesn't happen often so it's not an consistent every night thing.
> 
> But he still has tantrums and trying to get him into bed can invoke rages, he will sit there scream and open and close his door repeatedly. Again not every night, most nights I'm able to calm him and stay with him and he settles eventually, but some nights it must sound horrendous (thankfully I live in a detached house).
> 
> Obviously you could be right and they do lock the child in, you need to do what you think is right, personally I wouldn't given the child sounds happy and adjusted in the day, but you know the situation best

I wasn't saying being special needs was a reason to lock her in her room. I was merely asking due to behaviors described and tantrums. That's it.


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## Eternal

overcomer79 said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> My eldest is special needs, autism, I've never locked him in his room, although I have held the door before, usually after being bitten, kicked and hurt myself and I can't physically deal with it, so I've held the door shut, my other option is to let him smash up the house and hurt his brothers. Pathos situation doesn't happen often so it's not an consistent every night thing.
> 
> But he still has tantrums and trying to get him into bed can invoke rages, he will sit there scream and open and close his door repeatedly. Again not every night, most nights I'm able to calm him and stay with him and he settles eventually, but some nights it must sound horrendous (thankfully I live in a detached house).
> 
> Obviously you could be right and they do lock the child in, you need to do what you think is right, personally I wouldn't given the child sounds happy and adjusted in the day, but you know the situation best
> 
> I wasn't saying being special needs was a reason to lock her in her room. I was merely asking due to behaviors described and tantrums. That's it.Click to expand...

Sorry if it came across that way but my post had nothing to do with what you wrote :thumbup: just saying technically my child is "locked" in his room, but by me holding the door, it's not ideal, but sometimes I really have no option. It's rare for me to actually do it, but I sometimes have to when he has hurt everyone, because I need to compose myself again before trying to settle him. I'm new to all the autism stuff, so learning, but just giving my stand point. 

I do agree with Jasmark that I would say to my neighbours if I thought there was chance they over heard, because if I did live close there is no chance they couldn't. But you can quickly see that it's just one of my children who has those issues, and as I've learnt more and more to notice Sam's triggers, we are able to avoid more and more meltdowns, so it's no where near it used to be.


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## Sini

Difficult to say really. None of us answering are there seeing or hearing anything. If I was concerned over a child's safety id report it but if it sounds like some kind of sleep training etc parenting id leave it.

DS has never been a good sleeper and does throw tantrums at night. Id hate for someone to think he was at any harm due to his night time, loud antics.


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## loverguts

Hmm, it seems like the general feeling is more that i should keep my nose out of it. I said hello to the Dad yesterday afternoon and just got looked at, the older kid still screams late at night and pleads to be let out of her room but i guess i will have to just ignore it since i can't get 'proof' that they are actually locking her in there. In fact, right now i can hear the Dad shouting at what im assumung is the younger child and him crying, the whole thing is just making me sad. 

Im also not happy for SS to possibly tell next door that i had reported them if i decided to, they should not be able to do that! I know there are maybe some mean people around who would report people out of spite but Jesus, that could make life SO difficult for a lot of people who were just trying to the right thing!


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## LuckyYem

SS do not have to tell them it was you that reported them. Not long ago I reported something to dd1 nursery about an incident I saw involving a lb in her class, the teacher reported it and asked if SS could speak to me to get further details I had 5 or 6 phone calls with. SS and at one point the lb was removed from the parents and not ONCE did the school or SS mention my name.

If you are concerned that there is a problem report it, even if its just to the school. It may well be nothing - twice with dd1 I have honestly thought the police and SS were going to knock on my door because dd1 was having a major tantrum. Once she was screaming no, no, no daddy no - he wasn't even in the house - I assume she was shouting no at me because I put her in her room and daddy because she wanted him. The second time she put herself in her room was screaming no mummy, don't mummy! All the time I was stood in front of my living room window holding dd2 this went on for 45mins (obviously kept chicking on her) but I dread to think what my neighbours thought! I guess my point is (along with pp) is its may well be nothing in it - as there wasn't with dd1 but there may well be a big problem! 

When I reported to the school what I'd seen with the lb I won't lie at first I was worried about it coming back on me - not worried about myself but the parents kicking off in front of my girls' - in the end after I had a long think about it I decided to go ahead and say something because I knew in my heart of hearts I would NEVER forgive myself if something happend to the lb. You are the one who hears everything that is going on and yes we can all give our opinions but we do not see or hear what you see and hear. Good luck x


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## Kate&Lucas

It's a hard one I guess. Locking in a room is one thing but it sounds like she's in distress. I'd be quite concerned.
Lucas screams in the night. He has eczema and I have to put his cream on while he sleeping sometimes because he scratches himself raw in his sleep. Some of the things he shouts would get me hung, "get off me!" "put my pants back on!" "stop hurting me!"
Now, I've joked with the neighbours about the noise he makes because, to be honest, I feel the need to 'cover my back'. I'm a yeller too so sometimes the stuff they must hear coming from our house must sound awful.
That said I've genuinely considered how I'd feel if I was reported to SS. Honestly, I'd understand. Even though I know that his screaming is entirely innocent and isn't a result of him being abused, other people don't. They don't hear me trying to calm him down and sing him back to sleep, they just hear a lot of screaming and crying.

If it were me I'd probably report my concerns.


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## lhancock90

If its a sleep training technique, its clearly not working and i think for all involved they should give it up. A little girl pleading to be let out of her room in the middle of the night and ignored? I think i would call SS. You've listed a lot of concerns and isn't it better to call and it be nothing than to leave a serious situation to develop?

x


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## Mrs R

I'm a social worker and I have dealt very recently with parents that locked their child in her bedroom. It is absolutely not acceptable. You can phone social services and give ur name, but ask that they don't use it ( they have to do as you ask) or you can call anonymously. However not giving a name can raise suspisions that it might just be an malicious call.
If she's late to school continuously, you will probably find school have already reported it to social services. Sometimes one referral is not enough to act on, but two (one from u and one from school) usually is. Please speak up for this little girl, God knows what she is going through that you can't hear x


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## deafgal

Btw, how do let the kid go to the bathroom if they are locked all night? Assuming they are potty trained.


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## noon_child

Mrs R said:


> I'm a social worker and I have dealt very recently with parents that locked their child in her bedroom. It is absolutely not acceptable.

Interesting...how would you deal with those of us on this thread who have already stated that our children cannot get out of their rooms because the handles are too high? Or those parents who have been recommended CIO or CC by their HV? (I agree with you btw, I just feel that parents get so many mixed messages that it can seem hard to do right by them for doing wrong!)


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## Tasha

My youngest use to wake from her third birthday, every single night and just scream and scream. I was in there comforting her but it didnt help, it only recently stopped (about four months ago) and she is heading towards her sixth birthday. I was so scared of people thinking we were hurting her. It was awful. 

As for people saying that they would mention it to their neighbours, I didnt, I have social anxiety and so I find it hard to talk to other people but also people can be pretty judgemental and so some people might not want people to know what they consider to be private.

OP, I would follow your gut instinct. You could go in and chat to someone at the school if you dont want to report to SS.



Mrs R said:


> I'm a social worker and I have dealt very recently with parents that locked their child in her bedroom. It is absolutely not acceptable. You can phone social services and give ur name, but ask that they don't use it ( they have to do as you ask) or you can call anonymously. However not giving a name can raise suspisions that it might just be an malicious call.
> If she's late to school continuously, you will probably find school have already reported it to social services. Sometimes one referral is not enough to act on, but two (one from u and one from school) usually is. Please speak up for this little girl, God knows what she is going through that you can't hear x

I think that is a pretty big jump to make. Surely it should be god knows what she *may* be going thorough that you dont hear? It really isnt fair to assume there is more to this, yes possibly but not for certain.


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## Mrs R

Never mind


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## Mrs R

Never mind


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## Mrs R

.


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## Eternal

There is surly a huge difference in the intention of a parent who locks a child's door and goes down and watches tv and one who waits outside, or a the case of a door handle being too high the intention is not to lock the child in, it's the same as a cot really and no one would call that abuse surly? 

Intentionally locking a child in their room and leaving indicates neglect, they can't be bothered to deal with the child or see to their needs. Whereas those who have handles too high, I'm those cases, I'm sure the parents would come if they heard the child?


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## Scottish mum

noon_child said:


> Mrs R said:
> 
> 
> I'm a social worker and I have dealt very recently with parents that locked their child in her bedroom. It is absolutely not acceptable.
> 
> Interesting...how would you deal with those of us on this thread who have already stated that our children cannot get out of their rooms because the handles are too high? Or those parents who have been recommended CIO or CC by their HV? (I agree with you btw, I just feel that parents get so many mixed messages that it can seem hard to do right by them for doing wrong!)Click to expand...


I think there's a difference between locking your child in a room who's pleading to get out and CIO!!! Totally not the same and any case if you have a shodow of doubt and given the horrific things that have happened to kids that have been failed in the past report it. X


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## Scottish mum

My god it's a child's life that we are potentially talking about! Even if everything turns out to be ok surely it's best to be checked just incase! I think if it's been enough to make you concerned then report it!!!!! Sorry I'm just reading thro responses hence the multiple replys.


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## RinnaRoo

Just so we all know, CPS will take kids away for almost anything. It can be hell getting a child back. A process which can take months, leaving the children in foster homes, sometimes even separate from one another. Foster homes aren't always quality checked like they should be and can be dangerous and sometimes lethal. I would personally talk to them and say, hey I can hear your daughter every night and it's disturbing my family. Please control her or I will file a disturbance claim or something to that effect. If you notice a happy, feed, clean child, she's obviously being cared for.


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## LuckyYem

RinnaRoo said:


> Just so we all know, CPS will take kids away for almost anything. It can be hell getting a child back. A process which can take months, leaving the children in foster homes, sometimes even separate from one another. Foster homes aren't always quality checked like they should be and can be dangerous and sometimes lethal. I would personally talk to them and say, hey I can hear your daughter every night and it's disturbing my family. Please control her or I will file a disturbance claim or something to that effect. If you notice a happy, feed, clean child, she's obviously being cared for.

Within all fairness that is not always the case, in the UK some children have been taken but by all means not all.

As I stated before I reported something I saw to SS and the boy is still with his mother. He was clean, happy, well fed child who was NOT obviously being well cared for. His mother is an alcoholic, she was so drunk at dropping off time 12.30 that she could hardly walk, by going home time 3.30 she would be even worse. I had seen the step-dad with a can of cider at 9am! One day whilst I was walking behind them the mother and step-dad were both drinking and smoking as we left the school gates she was literally dragging him along screaming in his face that nobody wanted him, he was naughty etc I will NEVER forget that look on the poor little boys face. I reported it to the school who contacted ss and he was removed for a period of time. I had heard from other mums that he had been locked out of his flat and the parents were laughing and it wasn't until an adult who came across him that they let him in. I could write all day about stuff that I heard and saw within my own eyes. Would I do the samething again? Absolitly in a heartbeat! Just because she seems happy, clean and fed does not mean that everything is okay!!


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## Babybear85

This is a hard one. I think if your general feelin is that this isn't right then please report. But....there are other things to consider. You say they are Indian. Is it possible that the parents dont speak great English and this is why they find it hard to chat to you when you say hello, from what you say the little girl speaks English though so I guess they can. Also some children are bad sleepers. I hope to god my two year old isn't still sleeping as bad as he is now when he reaches 4...my god doesn't even bear thinking about seeings I am often at a loss and at the end of my rope now. I am glad my house is detached tbh as my son has had about 8 weeks of refusing to go to bed or waking at night with either terrors or tantrums. Imagine if my neighbours had onlykjust moved next to me and reported me sometimes I do just leave my son for a bit because else I would likely loose my rag at him. But if social services knocked at the door I would be very annoyed but am certain they would realise that it's just a sleep issue as I have nothing to hide. I actually said to my neighbours when this all started I hoped josh hadn't woken them as we were having issues and we had a giggle about it...I mean we have had to resort to having josh back in our bed as for us we just can't leave him to cry it's just not what we can do but likely the health visitor would suggest that and maybe that's what's happened here. I feel sorry for all parents these days really we can't do right for wrong. Anyway off on a tangent there but yeah if your gut from what you hear makes you worried then yes report


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## deafgal

Social service are not interested taking kids away from their parents. That's the last thing they want to do. They are more interested in making the situation better for the kids. They only remove kids in extreme cases.


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## lhancock90

RinnaRoo said:


> Just so we all know, CPS will take kids away for almost anything. It can be hell getting a child back. A process which can take months, leaving the children in foster homes, sometimes even separate from one another. Foster homes aren't always quality checked like they should be and can be dangerous and sometimes lethal. I would personally talk to them and say, hey I can hear your daughter every night and it's disturbing my family. Please control her or I will file a disturbance claim or something to that effect. If you notice a happy, feed, clean child, she's obviously being cared for.

Some people have terrible experiences with CPS or what is called Social Services here yes, but 90% of the organisation is set up for the good of children, not the bad.


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## MommyJogger

RinnaRoo said:


> Just so we all know, CPS will take kids away for almost anything. It can be hell getting a child back. A process which can take months, leaving the children in foster homes, sometimes even separate from one another. Foster homes aren't always quality checked like they should be and can be dangerous and sometimes lethal. I would personally talk to them and say, hey I can hear your daughter every night and it's disturbing my family. Please control her or I will file a disturbance claim or something to that effect. If you notice a happy, feed, clean child, she's obviously being cared for.

That's really not true at all. More often the case is that children are left in a bad situation because removing the child from the parents is a last resort. This myth is often perpetuated by parents themselves who are unfit, but will tell the world that their child was taken for "no reason" when there were some serious family issues going on. I worked as a waitress in college with a girl who was deep into drugs and had her daughter taken away for very good reason. She spent months telling a sob story to every customer about how CPS just took her child with no review and for no reason, and they believed her because when she was at work, she was able to pull off an illusion of normalcy. Her mother got custody of the daughter and just gave the daughter back to the girl before she was clean, so the girl ended up in the foster system. You can imagine what was said about CPS taking the girl back from her grandmother. Then all the regular customers wanted to talk about to _me _when they came in was how CPS doesn't do their job and just wants to take good people's children. There are rare cases where a child is taken against good sense, but that is _not _the norm, as is indicated in your post. You can bet your bottom that in 99% of stories where a child was taken for no reason, there's a story teller who's not being completely truthful about what was going on when their child was taken.


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## Eternal

It's not really true, when I was nursing I attended several lac reviews and social services etc kept giving chances and ways of keeping the family together. But I know it's not always the case too.


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## Scottish mum

RinnaRoo said:


> Just so we all know, CPS will take kids away for almost anything. It can be hell getting a child back. A process which can take months, leaving the children in foster homes, sometimes even separate from one another. Foster homes aren't always quality checked like they should be and can be dangerous and sometimes lethal. I would personally talk to them and say, hey I can hear your daughter every night and it's disturbing my family. Please control her or I will file a disturbance claim or something to that effect. If you notice a happy, feed, clean child, she's obviously being cared for.

Not in the uk!! It's a tad different. They don't take kids lightly x


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## Foogirl

I agree social services don't just remove children, but I do think it is naive to think its a simple case of nothing to hide nothing to fear. If anyone reported me and they came round, it would knock me sideways and I'd be incredibly stressed and fear for my family - and I'm confident I'm a decent parent who isn't abusing my child.

And if there was any incident which followed it, the usual childhood accidents and the like, I'd be terrified that was on my record. I'm not saying no-one should ever call if they are concerned, but I think I'd need to be more certain there was actually abuse before I put another parent through that. I get the "better safe than sorry" aspect of it but I think there are other ways to satisfy yourself there is a problem than just phoning SS.


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## Kate&Lucas

noon_child said:


> Mrs R said:
> 
> 
> I'm a social worker and I have dealt very recently with parents that locked their child in her bedroom. It is absolutely not acceptable.
> 
> Interesting...how would you deal with those of us on this thread who have already stated that our children cannot get out of their rooms because the handles are too high? Or those parents who have been recommended CIO or CC by their HV? (I agree with you btw, I just feel that parents get so many mixed messages that it can seem hard to do right by them for doing wrong!)Click to expand...

CIO is not the same as this though. Not that I agree with that either or would do it if Mother Theresa recommended it but I believe it works on the idea that the baby has no physical needs and only cries for attention because they have no other way of communicating. A child of four is generally articulate so crying can't be written off so freely, and is likely to be toilet trained so it's not as easy to argue that they have no physical needs.
Also I'd assume that even with CIO, if the baby wakes up in the night and cries, the parent will tend to him. This is a child in obvious distress pleading to be let out of her room, it's not a baby crying for attention.


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## deafgal

Right and if the child was younger and still in her crib, I can't imagine a mother ignoring her child all night. My baby cried for a little bit and we let her cry a little to see if she would go to sleep on her own (at one year old). When she would not settle down, I went to check onher and found a soiled diaper. No wonder she did not want to settle down. I cannot imagine a mom shut the door for the rest of the night without checking on her.


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## loverguts

Thanks for the replies, to be honest I still don't really know what to do! Tonight the little girl was crying/bashing door from just after ten and has just stopped now (11.40pm). I DID hear the dad moving about and talking so it makes me wonder what he was saying, my walls are paper thin so can hear everything when I'm in my bedroom but he wasnt speaking in English so I have no idea what was said, makes me wonder if maybe he was trying to calm her?! Although alternatively he could have been telling her to shut up! 

I have been wondering if maybe the mum used to normally deal with all this but because she's pregnant maybe she's completely shattered and the dad has been dealing with it all, i think I'm just trying to convince myself that hopefully they just have a daughter who is terrible at sleeping.

I really wish I was able to try and befriend the mum because I'm sure then I could definitely determine for myself what's going on but I now know she doesn't speak any English, my mum works in a GP surgery up the road and when I mentioned the saga to her she told me the guy has to do all the talking for her when they come in as she knows very little English. 

I will just leave it for a while and see how it goes, I don't really want to get people involved unless I am pretty certain there is something bad going on. Maybe i will try and have a light hearted conversation with the dad about how his daughter is next time I see them, maybe i could say i heard her crying at night or something and wondered if she was ok?! I don't know if that's just a silly thing to say to him though. Thanks for all of your advice!


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## WW1

A few things have come to mind as I've gone through this:

1st - we have no idea if she is "locked in". To me that implies a key is turned and the child is deliberately ignored. The child might just not be able to reach the handle, turn the handle independently or there might be a stair gate. My LO is 4 and we still have a stair gate to protect her from falling down the stairs. She has some gross Motor delays and it would be dangerous for her to have access to the stairs independently. I consider that good parenting by assessing risk and acting appropriately but apparently to others it is child abuse! We have a potty in the room she uses overnight to solve the toilet issue. 

2nd - it has been said she is left to scream and then there is comment that dad is in there but isn't speaking in English - that might answer the reluctance to communicate with you issue OP - perhaps the parents' English isn't good so they can't / aren't confident to do so. We don't know if parents are trying to sooth, using ignoring strategies or being deliberately neglectful and we can't therefore assume abuse. 

3rd - if the child is 4 would they necessarily be at school full time? Could they be in afternoons? How do we know the child is late everyday?

OP - you must do what you feel in your heart is right. My concern from this thread is the "phone social services just in case" attitude. To receive a visit from SS would be devastating (as PP have said). It's not something to be taken lightly. My other point is that SS resources are finite - for every "just in case" call, there might be serious issues missed as assessments are delayed. There are other avenues - speak to the HV or the school perhaps and report what you've heard (good and bad). Of course you are the one hearing the screaming and it's impossible to get a true vibe about the severity. In your situation, if the screams really disturbed me then I probably would call but only to give the facts. And the facts are that a 4 year old child goes to bed late, screams to be let out of the room and seems happy during the day. The rest is conjecture as far as I can ascertain (apologies if I've missed anything). 

Sorry for the ramble!!


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## Foogirl

I'd also add that to have a visit from SS in the country I was born and raised in is hard enough. If I were immigrant and maybe struggled with the language and am not sure how the system works it would be infinitely more stressful.


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## deafgal

Is there' s no bathroom upstairs for your baby to use? I would feel bad if my little one has to sleep near a potty. My mom needed one in her room when her cancer turned for the worst and I had to go empty it for her at night or she can't sleep well.


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## sandilion

If you feel the child sounds like they are in distress and no one is tending to them, then report it. CPS very well may be able to offer some support to the family with a better way to cope with night times with her.


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## WW1

deafgal said:


> Is there' s no bathroom upstairs for your baby to use? I would feel bad if my little one has to sleep near a potty. My mom needed one in her room when her cancer turned for the worst and I had to go empty it for her at night or she can't sleep well.

Is this a question in relation to my post?

If so, having a potty in her room really isn't an issue but using the bathroom (which is right at the top of the stairs) is. Her room is big, the potty has a lid and to be honest she rarely uses it anyway. A number of my friends have the same setup at night. It never occurred to me anyone would have a problem with it. It works for our little one so that's good enough for me!


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## Tasha

A potty in the room isnt a big deal, plenty of people do it as children often dont wake until they are desperate so it avoids accidents. Plus some people the toilet is downstairs so a half asleep child trying to negotiate stairs isnt a good idea.


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## overcomer79

I thought about this thread when my four year old was sent to his room last night after he said something that he shouldn't have. My husband then closed (not locked) his room door and he was screaming "no I want my door open" "I don't want to be closed in" "I want out of my room". As if we had locked him in. It really is amazing what these little ones can make you think is going on without actually knowing.


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## deafgal

That's fine to me. I don't know how the neighbor handling it but if I did know someone who is actually doing this for sure and kept her 4 years old child locked all night , every night, I would have a problem.


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## overcomer79

that's the thing...nothing is concrete here...I'd be livid honestly if someone took something my four yr old said and got SS involved.


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## Foogirl

overcomer79 said:


> that's the thing...nothing is concrete here...I'd be livid honestly if someone took something my four yr old said and got SS involved.

I'm fairly certain Abby could get us arrested very easily if someone asked her a few questions. Her nursery would be shut down if even half the stuff she talks about actually happens. One of the ladies broke her leg by (her leg was already broken before she was at nursery). The children hit her on the head with tennis racquets, every day (there are no tennis racquets in the room, it happened once two years ago at a different place) Once nursery lady pushed her off a swing (abby let go of the handles whilst she was sitting in a stationary swing) - The way children vocalise and apply logic to situations can definitely make something sound far more sinister than it is. For sure if her nursery wasn't a 6 star highly commended nursery I'd be seriously concerned about it!


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## Yo_Yo

If they are locking her in her room-no, that's not normal behaviour.
Not sure it's cultural either, as one of my friends is Indian and her little kids are her world. 
She even has trouble telling them off as she feels mean.

The bedtime seems a little late too.

It's hard to understand what's going on without all the facts, but it sounds very dodgy. Poor kid :-(

How do you know they lock her in for sure?

Ps agree it's hard to trust everything kids say-my dd1 fell outside in laws house whilst walking with me and started screaming "someone help me please!!" She honestly sounded like she was being beaten up!


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## Noodlebear

I don't think it's at all acceptable to lock a 4 year old in their room overnight, or even shut the door knowing they can't open it. How will that child go to the toilet if they need to? Especially if their parents blatantly ignore them for an hour!! I'd definitely report it, if they found out it was me then so be it.


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## petite ping

I admit I would shut the door or even lock it if there was a chance that my LO could wander around the house unsupervised in the dark at night especially if there was no way to secure the stairs properly. I would prefer that to finding her at the bottom of the stairs in the morning.


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## MommyJogger

I think a potty in the room is an acceptable option as long as the child also sees it as an acceptable option. Some kids won't be okay with sitting next to their own waste all night, and others harbor a mild fear of the potty that would make them 1) uneasy with it in the room while they try to sleep and 2) less likely to be willing to use it without a parent present anyway, so they'd hold it and be uncomfortable. Some preschoolers at J's old daycare were unwilling to go to the bathroom without holding a caregiver's hand because it made them nervous for one reason or another. I know J has been going through a phase where he wants the potty put away where he can't see it until he wants to use it because he's noticeably wary of it when he doesn't need to go (as opposed to when he used to wear it as a hat). He's obviously much younger and less able to reason with, but sometimes fears like that can't be reasoned away and should still be respected. 
I really think that closing a door that a child can't open is no different to locking a door that they could otherwise open. Either way, they're being trapped inside a space alone, and some kids really aren't okay with that (and let you know, a la OP's post. If they're just like "whatever, I'm good, I'm going to lay with my teddy and go to bed", then that's great.). For some, it's a personal limitation that needs to be respected because they're human beings. I don't care whether it's some kind of training or just how they do things. Choosing to punish a kid by sending them to their room and having them be upset by it is one thing (and I assume, a one-time or at least rare occurrence). Choosing to put your child to bed what sounds like every single night by closing them in their room *when they obviously hate that* is another. It's not okay. If it's not acceptable parenting in the daytime (and I assume no one would support closing a child in their room and ignoring their calls for attention/help during the day), then it's not okay at night time. Nurturing and loving response (even if it's a firm response) to a child is not just a daytime activity. They're learning how to treat others and about their own self-worth from our behavior modelling at nighttime, too. I can't help thinking about this thread every evening after J's in bed and hoping that the little girl is okay, that's a crappy way to have to end each day. :(


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## MommyJogger

petite ping said:


> I admit I would shut the door or even lock it if there was a chance that my LO could wander around the house unsupervised in the dark at night especially if there was no way to secure the stairs properly. I would prefer that to finding her at the bottom of the stairs in the morning.

But it sounds like they're closing the door before she's even asleep. I would think if a child were upset about this, parents could be creative enough to let her fall asleep with the door open and then close it when they go to bed so that she can't wander. Or even a gate so that the child is safe, but doesn't _feel _as closed in or trapped. I understand that some kids can get over a gate, but we've used two on top of each other in the doorway with architecture that allows J to throw himself over a single gate and eventually put up a screen door (we _have _to have air flow from that room in the summer to cool the house, but with the window open, there's a fall risk because the window is quite low and has an easy-open screen). There are ways around closing a distressed child in their room alone.


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## deafgal

MommyJogger said:


> petite ping said:
> 
> 
> I admit I would shut the door or even lock it if there was a chance that my LO could wander around the house unsupervised in the dark at night especially if there was no way to secure the stairs properly. I would prefer that to finding her at the bottom of the stairs in the morning.
> 
> But it sounds like they're closing the door before she's even asleep. I would think if a child were upset about this, parents could be creative enough to let her fall asleep with the door open and then close it when they go to bed so that she can't wander. Or even a gate so that the child is safe, but doesn't _feel _as closed in or trapped. I understand that some kids can get over a gate, but we've used two on top of each other in the doorway with architecture that allows J to throw himself over a single gate and eventually put up a screen door (we _have _to have air flow from that room in the summer to cool the house, but with the window open, there's a fall risk because the window is quite low and has an easy-open screen). There are ways around closing a distressed child in their room alone.Click to expand...

A gate at the child's room door sounds like a good idea. She probably feel better knowing the door is open.

but if you are worry about people or children falling on stairs, maybe research on carpeting your stairs and have nightlights near stairways so they can see where they are going.


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## Noodlebear

MommyJogger said:


> petite ping said:
> 
> 
> I admit I would shut the door or even lock it if there was a chance that my LO could wander around the house unsupervised in the dark at night especially if there was no way to secure the stairs properly. I would prefer that to finding her at the bottom of the stairs in the morning.
> 
> But it sounds like they're closing the door before she's even asleep. I would think if a child were upset about this, parents could be creative enough to let her fall asleep with the door open and then close it when they go to bed so that she can't wander. Or even a gate so that the child is safe, but doesn't _feel _as closed in or trapped. I understand that some kids can get over a gate, but we've used two on top of each other in the doorway with architecture that allows J to throw himself over a single gate and eventually put up a screen door (we _have _to have air flow from that room in the summer to cool the house, but with the window open, there's a fall risk because the window is quite low and has an easy-open screen). There are ways around closing a distressed child in their room alone.Click to expand...

Agree. Not only that but this is a 4 year old child, not an 18 month old toddler. I don't even think a stair gate on their room is called for.


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## WW1

Noodlebear said:


> MommyJogger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> petite ping said:
> 
> 
> I admit I would shut the door or even lock it if there was a chance that my LO could wander around the house unsupervised in the dark at night especially if there was no way to secure the stairs properly. I would prefer that to finding her at the bottom of the stairs in the morning.
> 
> But it sounds like they're closing the door before she's even asleep. I would think if a child were upset about this, parents could be creative enough to let her fall asleep with the door open and then close it when they go to bed so that she can't wander. Or even a gate so that the child is safe, but doesn't _feel _as closed in or trapped. I understand that some kids can get over a gate, but we've used two on top of each other in the doorway with architecture that allows J to throw himself over a single gate and eventually put up a screen door (we _have _to have air flow from that room in the summer to cool the house, but with the window open, there's a fall risk because the window is quite low and has an easy-open screen). There are ways around closing a distressed child in their room alone.Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. Not only that but this is a 4 year old child, not an 18 month old toddler. I don't even think a stair gate on their room is called for.Click to expand...

But how do you know it's not called for? My 4 year old does need a stair gate on her door as she has some gross motor needs. As a parent it is my job to risk assess, which I have done. I do often see comments about each child being unique (which is of course true) so why should there be a judgement about what all 4 year olds may or may not do / need? 

Slightly off topic I know but one size does not fit all.

Edit: just read that through and it comes across as quite belligerent! It's not intended to be - I'm on my phone so trying not to have to type in too many words!!


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## Noodlebear

Don't worry your post came across just fine lol. I still don't like the idea of a stair gate on a child's bedroom but if they are happy with the arrangement it's very different. If your child screams for hours every single night begging to be let out only to be ignored then I still think that's uncalled for.
Anyway, a stair gate is preferable to shutting a child in their room in that situation.


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## lhancock90

Noodlebear said:


> Don't worry your post came across just fine lol. I still don't like the idea of a stair gate on a child's bedroom but if they are happy with the arrangement it's very different. If your child screams for hours every single night begging to be let out only to be ignored then I still think that's uncalled for.
> Anyway, a stair gate is preferable to shutting a child in their room in that situation.

If i didn't have a stairgate on Evelyns room she'd fall down the stairs half asleep. A stairgate is very different to a door being locked.


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## Noodlebear

I agree with you, I have a stair gate on my stairs. However it's only different if the child sees it that way.


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## WW1

Our LO has never had an issue with having a stair gate at all. For her it's just normal. She can open her door though (not that she ever does really) so I suppose she won't feel "trapped" in the same way. 

OP - is the issue still continuing or has it calmed down?


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## lhancock90

Tbf if she puts her mind to it Evelyn can climb over..


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## WW1

lhancock90 said:


> Tbf if she puts her mind to it Evelyn can climb over..

That's probably true of Rebecca as well but I suspect she'd land head first! :dohh:


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## overcomer79

I don't see how (if it is happening) a gate is different then a door being locked/closed with handle up too high. Just like I don't see how it is any different then my shutting my 19 month old in her room at night. Do I respond to her every cry? Nope. She cries for a minute (did three times last night) and falls back asleep. Id honestly hate some of you as neighbors lol. Good thing my next door neighbor has been there done that.


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## Kate&Lucas

overcomer79 said:


> I don't see how (if it is happening) a gate is different then a door being locked/closed with handle up too high. Just like I don't see how it is any different then my shutting my 19 month old in her room at night. Do I respond to her every cry? Nope. She cries for a minute (did three times last night) and falls back asleep. Id honestly hate some of you as neighbors lol. Good thing my next door neighbor has been there done that.

That's not the issue though. There's no need to get defensive over a situation that doesn't compare to yours. It's not a baby/toddler crying for a minute, it's a child screaming and pleading to be let out.

Personally I don't like stair gates on bedroom doors. I think that if a child is old enough to let himself out of bed, he's too old to be locked in, but that's my personal opinion. At four, I can't think of a reason (other than mobility issues as in a PP), why she should be locked in her room.
With the OP though, if you're hearing the dad go in and speak to her, what is the tone like? It might be that he's just soothing her. When Lucas screams in the night he'll scream over me for ages when I try to soothe him.


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## MommyJogger

overcomer79 said:


> I don't see how (if it is happening) a gate is different then a door being locked/closed with handle up too high. Just like I don't see how it is any different then my shutting my 19 month old in her room at night. Do I respond to her every cry? Nope. She cries for a minute (did three times last night) and falls back asleep. Id honestly hate some of you as neighbors lol. Good thing my next door neighbor has been there done that.

Can you really not imagine how a child being able to see out of the room might give a different emotional experience than having the door closed and not being able to see any of the rest of the house? Some kids hate being closed in, it makes them feel alone much more than having the door open with a gate. Crying for a minute is also different than crying for an hour or more every night. I would think that if there is ignored distress involved every night (or with regularity) (and especially for a child old enough to converse with), the parent would evaluate that the methods they've chosen are not working and employ something else instead of just giving up and making their child suffer for weeks or months at a time.


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## Noodlebear

Kate&Lucas said:


> overcomer79 said:
> 
> 
> I don't see how (if it is happening) a gate is different then a door being locked/closed with handle up too high. Just like I don't see how it is any different then my shutting my 19 month old in her room at night. Do I respond to her every cry? Nope. She cries for a minute (did three times last night) and falls back asleep. Id honestly hate some of you as neighbors lol. Good thing my next door neighbor has been there done that.
> 
> That's not the issue though. There's no need to get defensive over a situation that doesn't compare to yours. It's not a baby/toddler crying for a minute, it's a child screaming and pleading to be let out.
> 
> Personally I don't like stair gates on bedroom doors. I think that if a child is old enough to let himself out of bed, he's too old to be locked in, but that's my personal opinion. At four, I can't think of a reason (other than mobility issues as in a PP), why she should be locked in her room.
> With the OP though, if you're hearing the dad go in and speak to her, what is the tone like? It might be that he's just soothing her. When Lucas screams in the night he'll scream over me for ages when I try to soothe him.Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it better myself. Overcomer Lucas will cry sometimes when he's first put into bed/if he wakes in the night. An 18/19 month old toddler is not a 4 year old child and I don't see how you've made the connection to your own, entirely different, situation?


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## deafgal

Not only they can climb offof beds but Most 3 or 4 years old I know can open door too. I know not all can


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## overcomer79

I just think it's so easy to judge without knowing the situation. Like I said...a four year old can make it sound a lot worse then it actually is. I live by the motto "unless you live within those four walls, then you really don't know.".


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## lhancock90

overcomer79 said:


> I just think it's so easy to judge without knowing the situation. Like I said...a four year old can make it sound a lot worse then it actually is. I live by the motto "unless you live within those four walls, then you really don't know.".

I agree, really i do but, if nobody ever acted, if nobody intervened, if nobody ever stood up when they thought something might be wrong then what would happen?


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## aliss

We lock the door because he wanders but he can just knock and we come if he needs us (we still use a baby monitor). Maybe I missed it in the long thread but has anyone just had a talk with the parents? Obviously they are having serious problems if a 4 year old is kicking at a door at 10pm..


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## lhancock90

aliss said:


> We lock the door because he wanders but he can just knock and we come if he needs us (we still use a baby monitor). Maybe I missed it in the long thread but has anyone just had a talk with the parents? Obviously they are having serious problems if a 4 year old is kicking at a door at 10pm..

I might be wrong i think the OP said she didn't feel comfortable talking to them?


----------



## WW1

lhancock90 said:


> aliss said:
> 
> 
> We lock the door because he wanders but he can just knock and we come if he needs us (we still use a baby monitor). Maybe I missed it in the long thread but has anyone just had a talk with the parents? Obviously they are having serious problems if a 4 year old is kicking at a door at 10pm..
> 
> I might be wrong i think the OP said she didn't feel comfortable talking to them?Click to expand...

I think the OP has tried to engage but they are reluctsnt, possibly as a result of a lack of English.


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## kit10grl

It is so north considering that there iS a lock/Stargate whatever for the benefit of a sibling rather than the 4 year old. My kids share a room right now DD will have prolonged mobility issues so needs to be kept in a safe space. If they are still sharing when she is out of her cot then the door needs to be secured somehow. My son will be 3\4 by that time. Its not him that's locked in but I could see him objecting to it purely as its something for the babies benefit.


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## ellebelle

RinnaRoo said:


> Just so we all know, CPS will take kids away for almost anything. It can be hell getting a child back. A process which can take months, leaving the children in foster homes, sometimes even separate from one another. Foster homes aren't always quality checked like they should be and can be dangerous and sometimes lethal. I would personally talk to them and say, hey I can hear your daughter every night and it's disturbing my family. Please control her or I will file a disturbance claim or something to that effect. If you notice a happy, feed, clean child, she's obviously being cared for.

Sorry, that's absolutely untrue - in Canada at least.
The role of Children's Aid is to investigate and ensure the safety and well-being of a child. They will work with the family to problem solve and attempt to resolve issues - the last resort is to take the child away from the caregivers. 

Also, looks can be deceiving. Emotional abuse and neglect doesn't mean a child will look starved and dirty.


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## ellebelle

Trust your instincts.
CPS will assess based on what you say. 
You don't need to be SURE there is abuse to report something, as trained professionals that's the agency's job to figure out.


----------



## DCS

Just a few thought..... excuse me if they have already been mentioned.

As an indian parent can i just say that we tend to shout rather than talk. The first few times OH met my family ( OH isnt indian) he seemed quite shocked. but we do talk quite loudly, so maybe if your hearing the mum/dad shout thats why. 
CIO/ CC is not the done thing, in my experiance. As a pp said already as soon as a child starts crying they are usually cuddled. When out, if on the odd occasion i tell LO off for misbehaving, my family/ other people look at me like im evil.
I know you mentioned that the family dont speak much english, but i cant remember if you said they had just come into the country, if so i find it quite odd that the child speaks good english. In my experiance, the childs first language would be gujrati/hindi whatever. So i cant understand why the kid would be shouting in english to be let out. Maybe she is getting words mixed up, with english being a new language?! Just a thought. Also we dont like people knowing our business, so maybe mum is quite embarresed that you can hear her family drama at bedtime. I breastfed my LO untill decembet when he was 2years 9months, iv always done bedtime and any night wakings, if i sent my OH in to LO in the night there would be alit of noise and crying. But with me being pregnant its something OH needs to be able to do incase im in hospital for more than a night. Also, i know with my family/ relatives/ family friends, kids dont have a bedtime. I remember going out to dinner at someones house, we would get there at 7ish dinner wouldnt be till 8ish and the grownups would sit n chat till 10/11 while the kids played. So maybe the kid doesnt like that they suddenly have to go to bed at a certain time, to prep them for school.

Everything i said is based on my experiance. And whereas im not saying that no indian parent has ever abused/ neglected their child im hoping this may explain some of what your hearing. I apologise if any of my points have been mentioned already but they are just thoughts that occured to me while reading, and if i didnt get them down my pregnancy brain would cause me to forget. 
I would say go with your gut, if as a parent you feel something is not right say something, call ss/hv anyone.


----------



## aliss

DCS I too would find it odd if my child spoke to me in the wrong language we use. I wonder if this child is on the spectrum, my son mixes them up in fits of anger too.


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## Starry Night

Seriously, just stay out of it unless you know FOR SURE that the kids are being abused. Social Services is a broken system and make the parents out to be guilty until proven innocent. You could be tearing apart a happy family for no good reason.

I am sick of do-gooder type of people who stick their damn noses into other people's business. Not every form of discipline is abuse. Geez. When kids grow up and do something dumb everyone wonders where the parents are but when parents try to actually raise their children they are accused of abuse.


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## Noodlebear

Starry Night said:


> Seriously, just stay out of it unless you know FOR SURE that the kids are being abused. Social Services is a broken system and make the parents out to be guilty until proven innocent. You could be tearing apart a happy family for no good reason.
> 
> I am sick of do-gooder type of people who stick their damn noses into other people's business. Not every form of discipline is abuse. Geez. When kids grow up and do something dumb everyone wonders where the parents are but when parents try to actually raise their children they are accused of abuse.

I'm sorry but this comment is ridiculous. Unless you are in that house witnessing everything you can never be sure. God forbid something ever happens to a child you know and care about because potential 'do-gooders' turned the other cheek. We see stories of it happening all over the news. If a child is screaming for an hour EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and you see that as acceptable discipline that truly concerns me. I understand that some people are frightened of reporting it, it's a big deal and it must be heartbreaking not knowing for definite and having to do it 'just in case' but SS is a fantastic system, we are fortunate to have them, who are powerless if they don't know what's happening. They are the ones who will decide whether or not abuse is happening, not the person making the call and to think they'd take a child away based on this alone is incredibly misinformed. This child may well be perfectly fine and if that is the case nothing more would come of it. I pray you are never next door to a poor, defenceless child needing someone to give them a lifeline because your attitude is awful.


----------



## Dragonfly

loverguts said:


> Ok, I moved into a new house in December, the neighbours have a 4 year old girl and an 18 month old boy, I don't know if I'm really over reacting but they definitely must lock their 4 year old in her room at bedtime, which is normally around 10/11pm, she screams and screams and bashes/kicks the door for about an hour every night, and that's not an exaggeration!
> I can deal with the fact that is disturbs my kids thanks to the paper thin walls of old houses but I feel reallllly sorry for the poor mite!
> 
> Is it a normal thing to do?! I hear them shout at their kids A LOT. They also both cry a lot during the day/evening.
> 
> They are an Indian family and my boyfriend seems to think its just their culture to leave their kids to cry etc, I'm not sure if that's actually true whatsoever!! I have tried making conversation with both parents to hopefully see if they seem like nice people but they kind of make it obvious they don't want to converse with me.
> 
> There are some nights that the girl will wake around 3/4 and scream and scream. I know its her because I hear her screaming to please open the door which I doubt their 18 month old can do! It scares the hell out of me!
> 
> How would you go about saying something? Is that just butting my beak in? Is it something I can report to social services so they can check on the kids or is that COMPLETELY over the top?

You know whats been annoying me about this thread. The narcissism in it. The me me me thats come out of people. Its not about your parenting and what you do its about a boy in distress locked in a room screaming which is something psychologists warn against. (remember Martin Daubney done it on his son?) Its not acceptable from the sounds of this original post and some are trying to make it acceptable. :shrug: Feeling sorry for the poor parents and the child is often not thought about. Weather or not you think its ok a child is in need of help and thats going ignored. Screaming for someone thats never going to come and freaking out in a locked room is very distressing and psychologically damaging. 
I think it should be reported. You can hear it its distressing to you too, it rings your alarm bells.


----------



## minties

Thank you dragonfly.

If it were a 25 year old female and her partner was locking her in her room and she was creaming for hours on end to come out, it would most certainly be abuse.

Poor little 4 year old, my heart breaks :-(. I would never ever EVER shut any of my children in their room and listen to them scream to be let out.

I have a traumatic childhood memory where a babysitter did this to me, I was 2.5 and I remember it as clear as day. There was a spider above my bed, and she had shut me in my room and I was stacking toys behind the door to try and reach the door handle, begging and screaming to be let out. I feel like crying now just remembering it! My mum came home and found the babysitter ignoring me, sitting on the couch smoking. For 3 hours.

I didn't fabricate the memory from my mother telling it to me, I only asked her if it really happened in recent years which she confirmed I had remembered correctly. I even recall the details of the toys and objects I was standing on. It really stuck in my mind as being terribly upsetting.


----------



## Noodlebear

Very good point, at risk of being narcissistic myself, my earliest memory is a similar incident - my Dad doing it to me as a punishment. It's horrendous.


----------



## Dragonfly

People are defending things that are not even the same as what this child is going through.


----------



## Noodlebear

Sadly it does happen a lot on here. There are exceptions to almost every 'rule' or 'norm' but rather than seeing a thread and thinking 'I do something similar but my situation is completely different' some think that it's a personal attack on their parenting and lose sight of what is actually, potentially, happening.


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## aliss

It's a pretty typical reaction psychologically. On another note, it is also common for people to overblow/draw negative conclusions from incidents and perceive a written incident as being much worse than it actually is. None of us were there, so I can't really say where this incident belongs on the spectrum - which is why OP should notify professionals if she is genuinely concerned for possible abuse.


----------



## WW1

Dragonfly said:


> loverguts said:
> 
> 
> Ok, I moved into a new house in December, the neighbours have a 4 year old girl and an 18 month old boy, I don't know if I'm really over reacting but they definitely must lock their 4 year old in her room at bedtime, which is normally around 10/11pm, she screams and screams and bashes/kicks the door for about an hour every night, and that's not an exaggeration!
> I can deal with the fact that is disturbs my kids thanks to the paper thin walls of old houses but I feel reallllly sorry for the poor mite!
> 
> Is it a normal thing to do?! I hear them shout at their kids A LOT. They also both cry a lot during the day/evening.
> 
> They are an Indian family and my boyfriend seems to think its just their culture to leave their kids to cry etc, I'm not sure if that's actually true whatsoever!! I have tried making conversation with both parents to hopefully see if they seem like nice people but they kind of make it obvious they don't want to converse with me.
> 
> There are some nights that the girl will wake around 3/4 and scream and scream. I know its her because I hear her screaming to please open the door which I doubt their 18 month old can do! It scares the hell out of me!
> 
> How would you go about saying something? Is that just butting my beak in? Is it something I can report to social services so they can check on the kids or is that COMPLETELY over the top?
> 
> You know whats been annoying me about this thread. The narcissism in it. The me me me thats come out of people. Its not about your parenting and what you do its about a boy in distress locked in a room screaming which is something psychologists warn against. (remember Martin Daubney done it on his son?) Its not acceptable from the sounds of this original post and some are trying to make it acceptable. :shrug: Feeling sorry for the poor parents and the child is often not thought about. Weather or not you think its ok a child is in need of help and thats going ignored. Screaming for someone thats never going to come and freaking out in a locked room is very distressing and psychologically damaging.
> I think it should be reported. You can hear it its distressing to you too, it rings your alarm bells.Click to expand...

True. Except we don't know if the child is being locked in and we don't know if no one is coming to their aid - and therein lies the problem. We don't know.


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## Dragonfly

This is up to the poster. Impossible for us to say online we where not there. The poster has genuine concerns she should phone and let professionals access, They can even possibly offer her some help.


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## Tasha

WW1 said:


> True. Except we don't know if the child is being locked in and we don't know if no one is coming to their aid - and therein lies the problem. We don't know.

And on a later post, the OP said she heard Dad talking another night, so maybe he was there but she didnt hear. :shrug:



Dragonfly said:


> This is up to the poster. Impossible for us to say online we where not there. The poster has genuine concerns she should phone and let professionals access, They can even possibly offer her some help.

Yep and if she doesnt feel able to talk to SS, then a chat with the school she goes to may be a good middle ground. :thumbup:


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## Septie

If you are genuinely worried about the girl, and since the parents don't appear to be violent, I would first approach the father and talk to him. The fact that this is disturbing your enjoyment of your own home, certainly gives you the right to "butt in". It's more uncomfortable for you than an anonymous report to authorities, and I am sure the family will be very embarrassed, but it has much less potential to be harmful or traumatic to an immigrant family (with little command of the English language) than a visit by social services. The girl does not appear to be in any imminent danger, from what I can tell in the posts, as she mostly appears happy, and there may well be a perfectly innocent explanation to all of this (when the OP hears the father talk, he may be trying to comfort an inconsolable girl with night-terrors and insomnia; and the girl may not be actually locked in, but know that she is not allowed to open the door after bedtime; they may try to transition her to sleeping in her own room due to her mother's pregnancy, or transition her to a bedtime for school, etc...). If the father offers no reasonable explanation, and the behavior continues, then OP still has the option of reporting this to authorities.


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## Ganton

My DS is 20 months old and has just worked out to open his door. Rather than dining another way to physically blocking him in his room, we've decided to return him to bed whenever he wakes an decides to come through to our room. We're a week in, and we've had a couple of nights where it's taken 3 hours to get him to settle again. What my neighbours will hear is him crying because he doesn't always want to be put back in bed, and the door banging (which is him openin it against the wardrobe as he comes out, but probably sounds like him banging on it to get out or u banging it shut to keep him in there). What they don't hear is me checking that he is ok when he first comes through to our room, or me calmly explaining that it's still night time, giving him a quick reassuring cuddle and whispering night-night as I put him back in bed. 

I know there are a lot of differences here to the situation that the opening post has described, but my point is that what you think you can hear could be far from the actual situation. This is confirmed by the fact that our neighbours actually approached us a few days a go about the disturbance in the night, and said it sounds like my DS is shouting rather than crying (and asked if we just shut him in his room to get on with it). Far from it: our nighttime problems have come about because we don't want to physically block him in his room. We explained the exact situation to them, we've spoken to health visitors for advice on what to do, and he's now much more settled after just one week. As hurtful as it was to effectively be accused of neglecting our son at night, I'm so glad that they spoke to us directly about it.


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## overcomer79

WW1 said:


> Dragonfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loverguts said:
> 
> 
> Ok, I moved into a new house in December, the neighbours have a 4 year old girl and an 18 month old boy, I don't know if I'm really over reacting but they definitely must lock their 4 year old in her room at bedtime, which is normally around 10/11pm, she screams and screams and bashes/kicks the door for about an hour every night, and that's not an exaggeration!
> I can deal with the fact that is disturbs my kids thanks to the paper thin walls of old houses but I feel reallllly sorry for the poor mite!
> 
> Is it a normal thing to do?! I hear them shout at their kids A LOT. They also both cry a lot during the day/evening.
> 
> They are an Indian family and my boyfriend seems to think its just their culture to leave their kids to cry etc, I'm not sure if that's actually true whatsoever!! I have tried making conversation with both parents to hopefully see if they seem like nice people but they kind of make it obvious they don't want to converse with me.
> 
> There are some nights that the girl will wake around 3/4 and scream and scream. I know its her because I hear her screaming to please open the door which I doubt their 18 month old can do! It scares the hell out of me!
> 
> How would you go about saying something? Is that just butting my beak in? Is it something I can report to social services so they can check on the kids or is that COMPLETELY over the top?
> 
> You know whats been annoying me about this thread. The narcissism in it. The me me me thats come out of people. Its not about your parenting and what you do its about a boy in distress locked in a room screaming which is something psychologists warn against. (remember Martin Daubney done it on his son?) Its not acceptable from the sounds of this original post and some are trying to make it acceptable. :shrug: Feeling sorry for the poor parents and the child is often not thought about. Weather or not you think its ok a child is in need of help and thats going ignored. Screaming for someone thats never going to come and freaking out in a locked room is very distressing and psychologically damaging.
> I think it should be reported. You can hear it its distressing to you too, it rings your alarm bells.Click to expand...
> 
> True. Except we don't know if the child is being locked in and we don't know if no one is coming to their aid - and therein lies the problem. We don't know.Click to expand...

That's what bothers me about this!!! There are a lot of assumptions being made! I'll echo what I have said that my four year old could get dh and I thrown in jail for some of the things he has said in our house. We have had to strictly correct things he has said and have had to talk to his daycare about some things that he is saying because we know they aren't true. 

Here SS aren't "professionals"...they just look at making a case. That's it. My family has been villianized by SS throughout my childhood and even my brother when he had kids. I'm terrified to be honest of someone looking at my nearly five year old weighing what little he does and calling SS in on us for neglect (happened while we were growing up).  They opened five cases against my parents that they were starving us because my neighbors didn't like us. My brother had a neighbor pissed off at them. Their oldest was biting himself and they got him in for medical BEFORE ss was called. SS still opened a case against them even with proof from medical professionals that this condition was being treated. They would call my brother and his wife and give them ten minutes to be home (they were at work!!!!) for one of their home visits!!!! I don't trust them and unless you know for sure I'd leave it alone. You shouldn't make someone's lives a living hell over an assumption. But that's my opinion.


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