# 'you natural mothers have a holier than thou attitude'



## juicyfruity

What? i was just accused of having a 'holier than thou' attitude, just because i was correcting someone that cloth nappies do not actually cause rash if used correctly and the benefits of babywearing. maybe i got quite upset because im a sensitive hormonal pregnant woman but i really do feel quite hurt!

i feel like i was accused of being a bad mother because of my natural parenting ways and then for correcting this person i was now being accused of acting all superior and mean :cry:

i didnt mean to put down her parenting or anything i just felt i needed to defend my 'natural mama ways' and now i feel bad for doing that! i kinda get what she means too i know some environmental people can get quite i dunno snobby and stuck up about it and i have the same values i just dont want to come across like that! i know natural parenting isnt for everybody and i of all people know how hard it is when you're not so well off to buy free farmed chicken and local produce. i do it but it is difficult and more expensive and i can see how for a lot of people feeding their family comes before free farmed meat etc

sorry i guess i just needed a little vent!


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## Mum2b_Claire

Oh don't worry. Anyone who falls somewhere on the natural / attachment parenting spectrum has to get used to being called holier than thou / told they are on their high horse blah blah blah di blah.


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## Dragonfly

If you are happy in your parenting you dont feel the need to tear down others.


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## Rachel_C

I've always thought it said much more about the person saying it than the person being accused when the accused has done nothing to deserve it. YOU didn't say you were holier than them, THEY are the ones who've suggested it, which speaks volumes to me. Perhaps they ought to think about their own feelings, maybe it's them who actually thinks you're a better parent? It happens with a lot of natural type stuff... people let their own guilt get in the way of what you've actually said.


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## lily28

Don't try to explain to people that you know will not see eye to eye with you. Not everyone's version of parenting is identical, natural or otherwise. We shouldn't judge others' decisions for their children.
Those who have this huge need to convince the people around them that what they are doing is the absolute correct way, obviously don't realize that it is something that works for their individual needs, not cookie cutter advice for the entire humanity to follow and apply.

My friend who is into natural parenting, is lecturing me for my decision to give birth in the university hospital. I know that I will have the kind of birth I like because I already talked about it with my doc, it will not be like being in the jungle, but I feel comfortable with my decision. She doesn't know I have a heart condition that could be potentially dangerous, especially during stressful situations. I will not share with her my medical problems and I will politely smile while she is sending me links of women giving birth under trees.
She is trying to tell me it is the wrong decision and I should give birth at my home with a midwife etc. However she is using disposable nappies, she sleeps in separate bedrooms from her daughter, smoked while pregnant, didn't baby wear etc. Her natural ways start and stop at her meditation classes, and natural birth at home. However she perceives her self as mama earth, and has the "holier than though" attitude with me. 

When it comes to our decisions about our children it usually hits a raw nerve if we are contradicted. I have come to a decision to keep my talk with people to a safe minimum and not get into all the details. This will keep me sane, and others happy.


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## aliss

A lot of NP moms do, unfortunately, have this attitude, and it makes the others look bad. I think those girls can automatically give 'us' a bad rep and that puts people on the defensive... then again, 'we' do a lot of things that 'they' wanted to do, and people tend to lash out in jealousy/self-defense mode.


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## aliss

lily28 said:


> Don't try to explain to people that you know will not see eye to eye with you. Not everyone's version of parenting is identical, natural or otherwise. We shouldn't judge others' decisions for their children.
> Those who have this huge need to convince the people around them that what they are doing is the absolute correct way, obviously don't realize that it is something that works for their individual needs, not cookie cutter advice for the entire humanity to follow and apply.
> 
> My friend who is into natural parenting, is lecturing me for my decision to give birth in the university hospital. I know that I will have the kind of birth I like because I already talked about it with my doc, it will not be like being in the jungle, but I feel comfortable with my decision. She doesn't know I have a heart condition that could be potentially dangerous, especially during stressful situations. I will not share with her my medical problems and I will politely smile while she is sending me links of women giving birth under trees.
> She is trying to tell me it is the wrong decision and I should give birth at my home with a midwife etc. However she is using disposable nappies, she sleeps in separate bedrooms from her daughter, smoked while pregnant, didn't baby wear etc. Her natural ways start and stop at her meditation classes, and natural birth at home. However she perceives her self as mama earth, and has the "holier than though" attitude with me.
> 
> When it comes to our decisions about our children it usually hits a raw nerve if we are contradicted. I have come to a decision to keep my talk with people to a safe minimum and not get into all the details. This will keep me sane, and others happy.

I agree with you!

Even though I am pretty much as hippy as they come, my best friend is the complete opposite, and we are great friends and never argue. We just respect each others methods and most of all, don't challenge or argue them. It works both ways!


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## Rachel_C

The world would be a pretty sad place if nobody talked about how they do things though, and nobody would ever learn anything from anybody else. Talking about cloth nappies or BF or natural birth or whatever doesn't have to be aggressive and it doesn't have to be unpleasant. Saying not to talk about it at all is one of the worst things you could possibly do, I think, because it makes both 'sides' completely unapproachable to the other. I have friends who parent differently and we sometimes talk about what we do. My friend asked me how we manage with cloth nappies and I told her how modern nappies work etc. There was no judgement, just correcting some false assumptions and a bit of a laugh. What's wrong with that? If we didn't talk about it, the disposable users of the world would all be convinced that we're up to our eyes in shit, hand scrubbing it in a bucket, sticking them into our babies with 3 inch pins :rofl:.


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## aliss

Oh I dont disagree at all! We talk all the time. But we dont' argue or challenge it- for example, it kills me that she does CIO but I don't argue or challenge her about it. Likewise, she is horrified (I think) that I bedshare with Philippe or that I "allowed" Alex to not sttn until 2 but she respects it.

I do find it odd that someone would think cloth causes more rash than disposable. I use disposables myself interchanged with my new awesome Spiderman bumgenius but I think it's quite obvious that soft cloth is easier on the bum than paper???? LOL


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## Sam Pearson

When I hear comments like that...cosleeping is dangerous, cloth nappies don't work, homeschooled kids are antisocial etc. I usually say "If that were true do you think there'd be so many of us doing it?" and I leave it at that. If they really want to know in what way they are misperceiving these practices I figure they'll ask me.


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## juicyfruity

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Oh don't worry. Anyone who falls somewhere on the natural / attachment parenting spectrum has to get used to being called holier than thou / told they are on their high horse blah blah blah di blah.

that made me smile! im over it kinda now i guess motherhood (or parenthood really!) is a jungle...i'm beginning to learn how to navigate! so far i have bang into the 'designer clothing brand mums' the 'my kid is soooo intelligent mums' the 'childbirth was a breeze! mums' the 'oh just you wait! mums' okay i am being a bit stereotypical here i know but it does feel like highschool all over again with all the cliques!


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## Staceysparkle

I can't beleive she said that to you how rude! You could hardly not correct her saying that about cloth nappies you were only telling the truth! If you said something about something she was doing that she thought was wrong I'm sure she would have told you. 

None of my friends are natural parents but they have been mostly supportive of our choices and quite interested to hear about why we cosleep, don't vaccinate etc but they do make fun of me sometimes which is a bit annoying. They know we try to eat all organic, unprocessed foods and we were at my friends little girls birthday party at the weekend and it was all junk food (chocolate spread and jam sandwiches, rainbow drops, crisps, biscuits, cakes, sausage rolls) so I put a few crisps on LOs plate and gave him his water rather than the juice with artificial sweetners all the other kids were having and my friend kept saying really loudly "sorry its not all organic" and laughing which annoyed me a bit because it was like she was trying to make fun of our choices but I try not to let it bother me.


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## AllieCat

I think most mothers are sensitive to criticism. And while you weren't criticizing her she probably felt like you where. Know that sensitivities are based on insecurities. I think it was out of line for her to say that to you.. but I think maybe she was just a bit jelous for whatever reason and took it out on you. I have begun to shut my mouth when parenting discussions start. I fear I will be critical or that Simone will take what I say the wrong way.... simply BC of times like these. I also have found many people question and look down on how I parent.. so I think its best to not give them the oppertunity to put me down


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## Dragonfly

Going to take back what I said. I have now met people who look down on me for not doing what they do from the natural parenting world. Several in one day actually and only over my decision to send my child who wanted to go to school to a school. Bad me. Apparently I am dodging my parental responsibilities. I actually lost a friend over that but who needs friends like that eh. So yes there are ones that are above every one and will not even see why people do things.


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## princessellie

Rachel_C said:


> I've always thought it said much more about the person saying it than the person being accused when the accused has done nothing to deserve it. YOU didn't say you were holier than them, THEY are the ones who've suggested it, which speaks volumes to me. Perhaps they ought to think about their own feelings, maybe it's them who actually thinks you're a better parent? It happens with a lot of natural type stuff... people let their own guilt get in the way of what you've actually said.

this! xx


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## Kess

aliss said:


> A lot of NP moms do, unfortunately, have this attitude, and it makes the others look bad. I think those girls can automatically give 'us' a bad rep and that puts people on the defensive... then again, 'we' do a lot of things that 'they' wanted to do, and people tend to lash out in jealousy/self-defense mode.

I don't think it's a feature of NP moms specifically, though I guess if you've done tons of research and wound up doing something outside the norm you are maybe more likely to be evangelical about it because you really _believe_ in it rather than just doing it because it's what everyone does. But a lot of "conventional" moms are just the same, I've been preached at about routine, CIO/CC for tiny babies as "they neeeeed to learn to sleep through for their health!", and especially about strict discipline for toddlers (didn't you know they'll be terrible antisocial little hooligans if you don't?).



Dragonfly said:


> Going to take back what I said. I have now met people who look down on me for not doing what they do from the natural parenting world. Several in one day actually and only over my decision to send my child who wanted to go to school to a school. Bad me. Apparently I am dodging my parental responsibilities. I actually lost a friend over that but who needs friends like that eh. So yes there are ones that are above every one and will not even see why people do things.

:hugs: Hope you're alright Dragonfly. I've seen you around enough to know you'd never do anything with your kids unless it was in their best interests.


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## Dragonfly

Indeed that is me and that was mentioned by friends who backed me up. But still my son will have bad influence by everyone at shool and all my work will be undone. He will turn in to a nightmare and be a drug addict. I have done wrong by not setting my home up to be an educational environment for them after explaining why I am not home schooling. Surely my children will suffer abuse in school to as thats a surety with them. So I got posted vids on how to home ed and pass agg status about not facing the truth that its my responsibility to educate my children. Yes I see that as hollier than thou alight! 

sure i will keep the kids in all day and night, have a new born and toddler rushing about and crying child who wants to go to school and make friends isolated from the world while we resent each other and try learn stuff he has no interest in as he wants to go to school and learn with others! how is it wrong when my sons all over me for days hugging and thanking me as he cant wait to go to school. Sorry I dont have a perfect life with a car and loads of friends and an area that has loads to do. School is fun here. Hormonal rant over!


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## lily28

^ many see day care/nurseries/kindergarten/primary school etc as pure evil... I see it as an opportunity for the kid to develop his own charisma in socializing and prepare for real life ahead of him. 
If I could I would home school, I have discussed it with DH, BUT it is illegal where I live, all kids must attend school for at least 9 years or parents go to jail.

I try to see the bright side of the situation: my kid will interact with others his own age, he will learn to be competitive and fend for himself, he will make friends outside our circle and will learn to accept points of view different from his own or his family's...


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## Dragonfly

I got that to when I said my son was going to day care, something unfortunate happened we had to withdraw him but I did get stick for sending him there. Hes a confident kid, wants to make friends and play. I still dont see how thats a bad thing for him to be with others when he clearly wants to be. I would never make my child go somewhere he was scared or never enjoyed. He wasnt like a little baby either when he went there. Times are changed, some people have not. I am looking forward to getting some house work done when all my kids are in school, my house dosnt run well at all now as I dont have people to help only when my partner gets home and I am wreaked from pregnancy and 2 kids. So having some organisation would be nice to enjoy life more. It makes sense. I will also say I spend every minute with my kids apart from times now when they go to other grans or aunts with their dad, I enjot that few hours alone. I have bonded my kids well to me so they are confidence without me and have never had any problems with being away from me. Mums do need that time to sory stuff out even if its sat there clearing your head. Being a sahm or even a working mum having everything on you isnt easy for everyone. Some mums have to realise others have different lives and they are also doing whats best in that situation for their family. Not chalk every one down as lazy parent of the decade for sending a child to day care or a friends for a few hours where they are happily enjoying others company which is important . Children need many role models not just mum all day every day. 

sorry for being ranty I have prego hormones and a bad birthday the other day.


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## lily28

Happy belated birthday hun! I agree 100% with what you write above. 
Plus I thought AP was all about going with your instinct and noticing what your child needs, so if you feel day care is something beneficial, and your child loves it you shouldn't have second thoughts or listen to nasty comments.


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## Dragonfly

I deleted and blocked that one as the other two apologised for their comments later. That one I felt like I was justifying what I was doing and wouldnt listen to me. This is not AP at all. I have been brought down before and accused of thinking things I would never even on this forum, chalked with that brush or the ones that look down so I know it dosnt feel nice. Never till recently did I meet that person who created that stigma. I have had people automatically assume because I breastfeed I must look down on them, never. So I think on both ends I have seen this. Never have I treated any of my friends different for not doing as I did and I have friends that do things I wouldnt do, dosnt mean they are my enemy. I am happy enough with the decisions I make so I dont need to tear others down.


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## HLanders

I think our pride gets mistaken for an "I'm better than you" attitude. Breastfeeding is the perfect example... There is no way shape or form you can argue that formula is BETTER than breast milk, breastfeeding mama's put a lot of hard work into maintaining supply and establishing the relationship, and we have a natural sense to be proud that we're doing that for our babies. Doesn't mean that we look down on those who formula feed for whatever reason... but aren't I allowed to be proud??? I worked damn hard to nurse these babies!!

Same with cloth diapering... no way you could argue that disposables are BETTER. They're easier... so I'm allowed to be proud that I'm taking the harder route because it will benefit the babies AND the environment.


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## NaturalMomma

Don't listen to what other people have to say. They will tear you down because they are insecure or ignorant.


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## Faythe

I tend to just ignore comments like that.

I've had a few snide remarks too but I just remind myself that those who bite at me are just ignorant.


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## alicecooper

It sounds as though the person who made that comment, felt as though you were criticising her decision to use disposable nappies. Perhaps she was feeling a bit defensive.

I have a friend on facebook who drives me absolutely up the WALL by going on about organic and free range food. 
I mentioned on my status update the other day that I was eating boiled eggs, and she immediately jumped in giving me the spanish inquisition about whether or not they were free range.
She tells me constantly to buy "less meat and more organic veg". I can't bloody AFFORD organic veg! And I can't buy "less meat" unless I start becoming a vegetarian. Quorn products cost more than meat, and I'm not going to start buying less food overall - I have a family to feed and we're on benefits.

She's very "save the whale" and all that. Heavily into the environment, and animal welfare, and so on. It's a very noble cause, and I admire her, but at the same time the lectures she gives me about buying non organic food drives me insane. I wish she'd just shut up and stop with the lectures already. I buy what I can afford and that's that really.

I love her to bits, but yes she really does come across as though she has a holier than thou attitude. If she upheld her views without shoving them down other peoples throats, that would be fine, but she doesn't - she feels the need to constantly tell people what they should and shouldn't be eating, and it's just not needed in the slightest.

So, from that perspective, if the lady in question who was speaking to you (OP), felt as though you were trying to effectively push cloth nappies onto her, and were in some way criticising her decision to use disposable nappies, I can understand that she might have snapped. 
Not that I'm saying that's what you were doing, but perhaps that's just the impression that she got.


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## Dragonfly

I have had a vegan girl send me horrible messages as I admin a health page, you know grow and farm your own and all that. Someone was talking about being vegetarian and she took exception to everyone not being vegan, send some very vile messages, All mostly about how good she looks and how fat I probably am. I find a lot of vegans to be very vile, no offence as I know they all arnt but you have to watch what you say you have for your lunch or you get attacked. Again note I have vegan friends that arnt like that but have more I deleted because of it.


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## lily28

Lol @ vegans, yes some are really aggressive, I was a vegan for over decade and while most vegans I know are sweet, some are really judgmental, rude and nasty.


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## NaturalMomma

I have some vegans in my family, but all are nice. However, I have seen some nasty ones.


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## T-Bex

I always get a bit paranoid, as I talk about stuff I do (veggie stuff, booby stuff, cloth bum stuff) on my facebook, and some people assume that if I say about what I'm doing, I'm automatically attacking anyone who doesn't. But in real life, I don't mention it unless someone explicitly asks me about it, and then people get defensive about why they don't do it the same way. I don't care! This is how I like to live, but I don't give a fiddlers fart what you do with your own life, thank you! 

I just like being a hippy, damnit! :hissy:


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