# Do you spank? You lo?



## blessfull

Was watching super nanny and the patients spank there kids, do you spank your kids? Just wondering I got spanked when I was little but haven't spanked my
Son


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## smokey

Spank no but the problem is there si much differant termenology and interpretation of the differance between spank, smack, hit, slap that its hard ti know what someone actually means by the level of what they use.
Ie I could say I have smaked my son and I know I ment I have smacked his hand away from somthing but others may think im smaking him about if that makes sense.
Another example is my dads phrase where hes from is a clout meaning a smack on the bum but here a clout means to punch.


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## Rachel_C

I don't think it's appropriate to use any form of physical discipline on children or anybody else. I wouldn't smack/slap/hit/spank my husband or my sister because I didn't like something they did so I don't do it to my children either. IMO the only thing smacking/spanking/whatever you call it achieves is to show a child that when you don't like what somebody has done, if they're smaller than you you can hit them.

The only time I would use anything physical would be in an emergency situation e.g. if LO went to run into the road I would grab her and pull her back, or if LO went to touch something burning hot I might slap her hand away. I wouldn't do it as discipline though.


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## mummy_ellie09

No never spanked. As smokey, I've batted his hand away from something but thats it


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## EverythingXd

I don't and I don't plan to in the future either. 

For a start, children copy. If you hit them, even if it is a tap, that says to them that it is ok to hit and they will probably do it either to you or to other children. They won't necessarily understand that you didn't do it hard either, and may well hit hard when they copy you tapping them.

Secondly, what will you do if the tap doesn't work? Tap them again? Tap them harder? Smack them? Smack them harder? Speaking from experience, this form of discipline can escalate... I've had more garden canes broken across my bum/legs than I care to remember and when that didn't work, well let's just say it escalated further (yes, I was that stubborn).

Having said that, if you are completely in control of your emotions and are genuinely tapping because something is dangerous (say for instance they are about to burn themselves on something) then a tap may be more effective than some other forms of discipline as long as it is not over-used because it is likely to shock them into stopping immediately.


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## CaptainMummy

I havent, and never will... i dont think id ever forgive myself if I did! Id pribably hate myself forever!

I got smacked as a child (not a toddler, pribably started about 8 or So) as did all of my siblings but it wasnt very effective. We all just laughed and shouted 'didnt hurt!' Then we gt another for being cheeky!

It was never aby more than a smack on thr top of the leg/bum... but it was pointless!


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## binxyboo

This kind of thing reinforces that hitting IS ok! 
Its totally mixed messages too! - "Don't hit other kids *smack*. Its not nice. Its very naughty *smack*."

I've never hit Daniel. I don't intend to.


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## Siuan

No, and I won't either. My parents smacked me, my OH's parents smacked him (and threatened him with a wooden spoon) if any of them so much as try to do that with my little girl they will be brought up sharp. 

There are other ways. 

By the way, I agree with other poster's comments - spank means different things to different people. So when I say "smack" I mean one hand, open palm, hitting bottom or legs usually whilst clothed and the child is standing up. Spank is much more serious in my understanding and is something I've always understood to be more like a child being put over a parent's knee and being smacked many times on a bare bottom. 

Neither is acceptable to me in anyway.


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## lau86

I have smacked him on the bum once when he ran away from me and nearly fell down a huge hole. 
It's not part of my parenting style though and I wouldn't choose to do it, it happened almost before I could check myself.


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## katy1310

I never have and never will - but for some reason, Sophie keeps saying "Don't smack me, mummy" when we are out in public???!! Especially in front of the judgeypants mums at ballet :( I have no idea where she got that from because nobody has ever smacked her.


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## teal

katy1310 said:


> I never have and never will - but for some reason, Sophie keeps saying "Don't smack me, mummy" when we are out in public???!! Especially in front of the judgeypants mums at ballet :( I have no idea where she got that from because nobody has ever smacked her.

My son does this too! I don't know if he's maybe seen another child be smacked but I don't smack him xx


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## Destiny08

i would never smack my daughter. it's so easy to lose control and hit a little harder each time. i was smacked as a child. as were all my siblings. and it became abusive. not only from my parents but from my older brother too (and my younger brother when he got older...and he's 9 years younger than me.) and when a child sees you do it, they cant differentiate. my brother ended up strangling me (twice) and would punch me in the same place repeatedly until I'd cry. if my younger siblings woulf say 'didnt hurt!' he would hit again and again or twist our arms up behind our backs just to get us to cry...

and whats worse...is it was so regular in my family that i didnt even realise it was abusive until i was in therapy for severe depression a year ago!

nope. never. never ever.


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## smokey

katy1310 said:


> I never have and never will - but for some reason, Sophie keeps saying "Don't smack me, mummy" when we are out in public???!! Especially in front of the judgeypants mums at ballet :( I have no idea where she got that from because nobody has ever smacked her.

Horrible isnt it, lo used to do that if he was being naughty and i picked him up to take him away from somthing hed shout out " help me, help me" in a really scared serious sounding voice.
Im surprised i havnt had he police after me at times.


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## sandilion

I never planned to, but the other day Devin just grabbed all of his food i had made for him, and started throwing it on the floor without even tasting it... without even thinking i just smack his hand, and the look on his face broke my heart!! He cried and looked at me as if he was asking me "why did i do that?" 

Definitely not the way i want to parent, and i have vowed to never ever do it again.

I am blaming the stress I have been under and my ovarian cyst on that incident. No excuse though, but it was a wake up call to me that i am not myself right now so need to be mindful of that.

I feel smacking or using any sort of force like that is due to the parent not being in any sort of control and trying to gain it back with fear. It just teaches kids to be fearful, and to also be more cunning.

After i did it the other day to Devin's hand, i told him i was very sorry and explained to him that i have been very stressed and just want him to eat up his food. I still feel so terrible for it. He is well over it now, a very confident little kid and i am sure he has forgotten about it now and it wont be happening again. Not that i was looking for a response from it as such, but his reaction hurts my heart whenever i think about it as it completely took him by surprise. :cry:


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## Seity

I sure do and have. It's almost never been necessary since usually time out in his room is sufficient.


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## ellie27

No, I couldnt, I dont think its right, never been in a situation where I felt a smack was necessary, think there are other ways to communicate wrong-doings.


I speak with my daughter clearly and make sure she understands that what she has done is wrong etc - I get her to tell me why mum is upset etc:flower:


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## kirstylm

Rachel_C said:


> I wouldn't smack/slap/hit/spank my husband or my sister because I didn't like something they did so I don't do it to my children either.

I think that's a really good way of explaining why it's not a good thing to do. ;-) 

I have only ever done it once on the hand as my 3yr old did something dangerous to my newborn and I think it was more the shock that made me do it and u know what, I felt AWFUL. I hugged and kissed her afterwards and just explained I didn't meant I hurt her but I got frightened and worried. 

I wouldn't use smacking or whatever u wanna call it as I know with my toddler if would work the opposite way and she would just laugh at me, smack me back or then be scared by me. I don't want her to do either of those things. I also wouldn't want it to get out of control. 

At the moment if Eva is being very naughty I punish her by taking her toys away or she has a time out in her room which she HATES so i find that works well. At the moment anyway! ;-)


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## Tor

I was smacked as a child whenever I was naughty, OH was never smacked, neither of us would ever smack our kids though, it just feels so so wrong to me, id rather use other ways to discipline.


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## Button#

I don't and won't. I don't think it makes sense to teach children right from wrong by doing something wrong myself.


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## Ali33

Yup I do when it is needed which is rare.. Maybe once a year if that and it is only a smack on the butt..


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## KayBea

ive only ever batted her hand out the way. ie shes about to touch the hot radiator or something. ide never hit/smack or slap or anything. x


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## iwa

I was raised in the South of the U.S. ... I got spanked a lot as a kid, it was pretty much the only form of discipline I got. I very rarely got grounded but very frequently got spanked, sometimes got spanked AND grounded hahaha 

By spank, I mean with a hand, a belt, or a switch but usually on the butt and always when clothed. That happened til I was about 13 years old.

I never saw anything wrong with it back then and I really don't now either...it is just a cultural thing. I never saw myself as abused and no one else in my community would have either. It was just the only form of discipline our parents knew. 

I really don't think I will spank my kids, especially since my OH does not agree with it and sees it as abuse. I do kind of worry about it though. I guess I will know more about how I feel about it when I actually have a child myself. 

It is a really confusing topic for me.

EDIT: I will say that I do not agree with being spanked over every little thing. I won't spank my kids because they didn't put their plate in the sink or didn't wash the dishes when they were told to or they went too far from the house or went into a room they weren't supposed to etc.


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## kazzzzy

No have never spanked LO & never plan on it either, there's other forms of discipline I use, spanking doesn't achieve anything imo, its just an adult loosing control.
I remember a few yrs ago seeing a woman spank a little girl around 4 yo on the street, she spanked her all over her little body, it was just awful, another woman went over asking her to stop spanking the little girl, the poor little girl was so upset, my heart went out to her.


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## Twinks

I haven't and wouldn't with my lo. I was smacked as a child and although it didn't harm me nor did I smack others, I still wouldn't with my lo there are others ways. I wouldn't allow the grandparents to discipline my lo using any physical method either!


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## Eleanor ace

katy1310 said:


> I never have and never will - but for some reason, Sophie keeps saying "Don't smack me, mummy" when we are out in public???!! Especially in front of the judgeypants mums at ballet :( I have no idea where she got that from because nobody has ever smacked her.

Argh Ted's like this- sometimes if he does something naughty he'll smack himself on the bottom or slap himself in the face then cry, I've gotten some horrible looks from people who obviously think I hit him :dohh:.

To the OP: no we don't use physical reprimands, it wouldn't be effective for us anyway as most of what I tell DS off for is being rough so it would just confuse the situation!


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## Kimmer

Absolutely not. 

I made my little girl, I carried her for 9 months, nurtured her little body and her little personality. Every day, she is learning. Sure, she makes mistakes. But she's still learning.

I teach my daughter the difference between right and wrong. If she is wrong, I teach. She follows my example. 

By hitting/tapping/swatting/smacking/spanking.. whatever you want to call it.. I would be disrespecting her as a person, taking advantage of the fact I'm bigger and stronger than her.

Also, I would never want my daughter to submit to the threat of violence. Children CAN and DO learn very well without being hit, shouted at or threatened. 

IF I ever laid a finger on my daughter, it would simply be because I have lost control and I'm taking it out on her. I would definitely seek professional help if I couldn't restrain myself and NOT hit a 3 year old.


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## Itsychik

iwa said:


> I was raised in the South of the U.S. ... I got spanked a lot as a kid, it was pretty much the only form of discipline I got. I very rarely got grounded but very frequently got spanked, sometimes got spanked AND grounded hahaha
> 
> By spank, I mean with a hand, a belt, or a switch but usually on the butt and always when clothed. That happened til I was about 13 years old.
> 
> I never saw anything wrong with it back then and I really don't now either...it is just a cultural thing. I never saw myself as abused and no one else in my community would have either. It was just the only form of discipline our parents knew.

I am similar... I was raised in the U.S. and was also spanked as a child. I don't particularly see anything wrong with it (when done correctly, spanking isn't meant to be abusive).

I have spanked my LO on a couple of occasions (a tap on his bottom, either when he was clothed or unclothed), and I will do it in the future as well when no other form of reasoning or discipline works and if I think the situation calls for it. Each parent needs to make the decision that works for them.


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## lhancock90

Nope. I wouldn't hit an adult for "misbehaving" therefore I wouldn't hit a child.
It bothers me that it's so acceptable to physically discipline children.
:nope:


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## Gc85

Kimmer said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> I made my little girl, I carried her for 9 months, nurtured her little body and her little personality. Every day, she is learning. Sure, she makes mistakes. But she's still learning.
> 
> I teach my daughter the difference between right and wrong. If she is wrong, I teach. She follows my example.
> 
> By hitting/tapping/swatting/smacking/spanking.. whatever you want to call it.. I would be disrespecting her as a person, taking advantage of the fact I'm bigger and stronger than her.
> 
> Also, I would never want my daughter to submit to the threat of violence. Children CAN and DO learn very well without being hit, shouted at or threatened.
> 
> IF I ever laid a finger on my daughter, it would simply be because I have lost control and I'm taking it out on her. I would definitely seek professional help if I couldn't restrain myself and NOT hit a 3 year old.

Exactly this ^^^ Smacking/spanking is usually a spur of the moment thing which usually means driven by frustration or anger, this is how I was disciplined as a child by my mum losing her temping and that is not how I want to be with my LO. I never let myself reach the point where I feel so frustrated that I act in temper, I would always walk away. Also like pp said just because she's little doesn't mean my LO isn't a person in her own right and I would never invade her personal space in such a way just to make a point. There are more effective ways to discipline than physical means IMO.


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## rosie272

No, I don't ever intend to either.


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## lozzy21

No never, how can I teach her that its wrong to hit others if I hit her? And regardless of what you call it its still hitting. Also if OH hit me because I did something that made him frustrated/ angry/ upset it would be domestic violence. Why is it acceptable to hit a child but not an adult?


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## rjm09

My voice is enough to scare the crap out of him. He's still defiant,he get a nice firn grab by his upper arm and forced to look at me while i scold him. Ya his hand's been smacked. It's rare, it was for something serious. When it's happened he knows it's a serious issue! I don't want him to think when something don't go how he want's ,violence will solve the problem.


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## Siyren

Nope- I've batted her hand away from the oven before- but then got down on her level and reiterated that it is very hot and we shouldn't touch it. I've felt awful enough the few times I've hurt her accidentally (trapped fingers, scratching her while changing a nappy when younger- standing on her foot etc) I couldn't imagine intentionally causing her to feel like that. I was smacked as a child and I never want Lyssa to feel that way- all I learned from being smacked (bare bum over my mums knee) was to lie to get out of trouble so I wouldn't be hit. We use time in's when necessary- and natural consequences the rest of the time x


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## Dragonfly

Nope I dont hit people.


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## babyhopes2010

yes i have. on the nappy not v hard. to be honest it upset me more than it did her. only done it twice


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## fi123

No I don't but DH thinks it is ok to give him a little spank if he does something wrong. I have told him this is not on and not to do it!!!!!!


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## Noelle610

No. As the others have said, I wouldn't hit my DH or my co-workers... So why would I hit my child? I'm not sure I could teach her that hitting was wrong if I took that approach. She's a person and I respect her.

My husband is southern and very, very traditional. He had always planned on spanking his kids and we had multiple disagreements about it prior to having a child. When I was pregnant we were in the waiting room at my OBGYN's office and this kid was running around like a mad man. He kept hitting his mom really aggressively. Then she popped him good and my DH was like, "Umm... we're not hitting our kids". It was so obvious he had been taught this behavior by example (not that all aggressive kids have aggressive parents). It really hit home for both of us.


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## seoj

No, I don't. I know people that were (some well more than just spankings)- and not once has anyone I knew said "oh yea, that was great! I really learned my lesson and I'm a better person for it."- I just know it was not a pleasant memory for them... not that I would spank my kids regardless-- but that just reinforces why I would not.

I was spanked once as a child. Maybe around 5yrs? I honestly don't even recall the spanking itself (when I say spank, I mean over the knee actual spanking)-- but I do recall crying histerically after. And that was the ONE and only time my parents ever did that. It's funny though, not ha-ha funny, but odd funny- because the only other punishment I can recall growing up was talking it out? If I needed to "cool down" I was sent to my room- but after, we'd sit and discuss why I did what I did etc... my Mom was always so supportive and amazing. TBH though- it must have been my Dad that did it. And I bet my Mom made sure that was it. Otherwise I think I might have been grounded once?


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## hattiehippo

I have smacked Tom 2x when he was younger - both times he was totally out of control and was likely to hurt himself if not stopped. No amount of reasoning, cuddling etc had any effect but a quick tap on his leg stopped him straight away. I felt terrible but really didn't want him to roll down the stairs etc mid tantrum.

Since he's been more open to reason then I haven't smacked him and don't plan to. He responds well to time out or toys being removed if needed....though tbh I haven't done either of these for ages as I haven't needed to.

I was smacked as a child. It didn't teach me it was ok to hit. It did tell me when I'd really gone too far as my mum only smacked very rarely.


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## Noelle610

hattiehippo said:


> I was smacked as a child. It didn't teach me it was ok to hit. It did tell me when I'd really gone too far as my mum only smacked very rarely.

You can't really base your opinions off of anecdotal evidence though. Sure, you're fine and it didn't teach you it's okay to hit. But that doesn't mean it will have the same effect on every child. 

It's like saying you ate a Twinkie every single day as a child and you never had a weight problem. It's possible, but it doesn't mean it's advisable.


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## Dragonfly

It did teach you to hit if you hit your child. :wacko:


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## Cleo

No. F is 3, L is 1.5. When they are refusing to listen or being defiant it's because they are THREE and ONE AND A HALF. They are learning how to do things, how to negotiate, how to control their emotions, how to express themselves, how the world works. They are not trying to make me angry (even though they sometimes do), they aren't trying to deliberately be little terrors (even though they sometimes are). They are toddlers. They are just learning how to be little people and they need guidance and encouragement. They need explanations and expectations. If I want them to behave nicely, I need to model it and understand that it doesn't happen overnight. It takes YEARS. Fear, anger, losing control, aggressiveness, and violence are not the behaviours or feelings I want to model for my children.


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## XJessicaX

:sad1: I have once, on her wrist. It was not a premeditated smack, it was just a reflex reaction to something I had told her off several times for.


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## highhopes19

I have tapped Isabelle's hand on a couple of occasions , straight after I felt like the worst mother and ended up apologising to her, to which she smiles at me smugly cuddles me and goes its ok! So counter productive 

Now we do the naughty corner which is working better than anything... Much better than tapping her hand so its not somthing i would use again x


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## hattiehippo

Dragonfly said:


> It did teach you to hit if you hit your child. :wacko:

I assume this is directed at me???

Please don't make judgements about me, my upbringing or behaviour. You know nothing about it.

My mum did smack me and my brother when we went too far. It was reserved for very rare occasions, in fact I can remember it happening maybe twice past the age of 4.

It certainly didn't teach me it is ok to hit children. Smacking Tom is something I have done when I have judged his behaviour was endangering him and he was likely to hurt himself. It is not something I use as a discipline strategy.

It did teach me that no-one is perfect and sometimes we all make judgement calls that others don't agree with.


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## hattiehippo

Noelle610 said:


> hattiehippo said:
> 
> 
> I was smacked as a child. It didn't teach me it was ok to hit. It did tell me when I'd really gone too far as my mum only smacked very rarely.
> 
> You can't really base your opinions off of anecdotal evidence though. Sure, you're fine and it didn't teach you it's okay to hit. But that doesn't mean it will have the same effect on every child.
> 
> It's like saying you ate a Twinkie every single day as a child and you never had a weight problem. It's possible, but it doesn't mean it's advisable.Click to expand...

I'm not actually sure what the point of your post was other than to pick holes really.

Smacking is an emotive subject that people feel strongly about. It may be anecdotal evidence but it is also my opinion - I'm not sure why you seem to feel its less valid than yours?


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## Itsychik

seoj said:


> No, I don't. I know people that were (some well more than just spankings)- and not once has anyone I knew said "oh yea, that was great! I really learned my lesson and I'm a better person for it."- I just know it was not a pleasant memory for them... not that I would spank my kids regardless-- but that just reinforces why I would not.

I was spanked as a child. It wasn't "great" but I learned my lesson and think I'm a better person for it.


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## lilly_bum

iwa said:


> I was raised in the South of the U.S. ... I got spanked a lot as a kid, it was pretty much the only form of discipline I got. I very rarely got grounded but very frequently got spanked, sometimes got spanked AND grounded hahaha
> 
> By spank, I mean with a hand, a belt, or a switch but usually on the butt and always when clothed. That happened til I was about 13 years old.
> 
> I never saw anything wrong with it back then and I really don't now either...it is just a cultural thing. I never saw myself as abused and no one else in my community would have either. It was just the only form of discipline our parents knew.
> 
> I really don't think I will spank my kids, especially since my OH does not agree with it and sees it as abuse. I do kind of worry about it though. I guess I will know more about how I feel about it when I actually have a child myself.
> 
> It is a really confusing topic for me.
> 
> EDIT: I will say that I do not agree with being spanked over every little thing. I won't spank my kids because they didn't put their plate in the sink or didn't wash the dishes when they were told to or they went too far from the house or went into a room they weren't supposed to etc.

wre im from its illegal too hit a child with a weapon i really hope u do choose not too hit ure child :(


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## lilly_bum

i was hit as a child made me nervous frightened and alone even now as an adult i suffer from really bad anxiety once my gran threw scissors at me and and they stabbed my leg :( i would never ever ever hit my daughter there are plenty of ways of teachng wright from wrong with out inflitcing pain on an inoccent child x


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## minties

Spanking to me conjures up an image of having a child across my lap, and furiously smacking their bottom over and over and over again. So no, I don't spank.

There are anti-smacking law in NZ, at least last I heard there were...so it's not legal and it's not something I would do anyway.

To me, hitting a toddler is something to assist in venting frustration and anger and power, and little to do with correcting 'bad' behavior. I wouldn't smack the adults in my life, why would I smack. the 2 
smallest people I know? Who love me unconditionally and rely apon me to care for them and protect them? 

Edited to add, an adult I adore and trust came after me recently and almost punched me, it was terrifying. I do NOT want my kids to see me like that. 

I'd be FURIOUS if any other adult lay their hands on my kids, so why would I then go and hurt them myself? Just to make me feel better by venting my anger?


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## Rachel_C

Kimmer said:


> IF I ever laid a finger on my daughter, it would simply be because I have lost control and I'm taking it out on her. I would definitely seek professional help if I couldn't restrain myself and NOT hit a 3 year old.

This is spot on, I think. If you're in a situation where you smack/slap/spank/hit a child because you've lost control, there is something wrong and I would be so ashamed of myself if I did that.

The way I see it is that there are probably only two ways a parent would smack a child. One is as an angry reaction to something your child did, a heat of the moment type thing. In that case, I think you need help controlling your own behaviour. The other way is in a cold and calculated way, something you've decided you will do if your child does X, W or Z, or if you tell your child you will think about a punishment and then decide to smack them. I can't decide if that's worse than the angry smack - you have plenty of time to think about the punishment (whether you decide you will smack for X, or whether you let the action happen then take time to decide) and you can still only come up with physical violence as a suitable solution? I think that second person needs some serious help with parenting, TBH, and the first person needs help with their emotions/reactions.


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## Noelle610

hattiehippo said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hattiehippo said:
> 
> 
> I was smacked as a child. It didn't teach me it was ok to hit. It did tell me when I'd really gone too far as my mum only smacked very rarely.
> 
> You can't really base your opinions off of anecdotal evidence though. Sure, you're fine and it didn't teach you it's okay to hit. But that doesn't mean it will have the same effect on every child.
> 
> It's like saying you ate a Twinkie every single day as a child and you never had a weight problem. It's possible, but it doesn't mean it's advisable.Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not actually sure what the point of your post was other than to pick holes really.
> 
> Smacking is an emotive subject that people feel strongly about. It may be anecdotal evidence but it is also my opinion - I'm not sure why you seem to feel its less valid than yours?Click to expand...

I'm not picking holes. I'm making a very valid point - anecdotal evidence isn't valid when you talk about cause and effective. I'm not talking about my experience. I'm talking about most *current* research, which shows that spanking is uneffective and can be dangerous. It's not about opinions.

From the American Psychological Association:

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx



> A growing body of research has shown that spanking and other forms of physical discipline can pose serious risks to children, but many parents arent hearing the message.
> 
> Its a very controversial area even though the research is extremely telling and very clear and consistent about the negative effects on children, says Sandra Graham-Bermann, PhD, a psychology professor and principal investigator for the Child Violence and Trauma Laboratory at the University of Michigan. People get frustrated and hit their kids. Maybe they dont see there are other options.
> 
> Many studies have shown that physical punishment  including spanking, hitting and other means of causing pain  can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children. Americans acceptance of physical punishment has declined since the 1960s, yet surveys show that two-thirds of Americans still approve of parents spanking their kids.
> 
> But spanking doesnt work, says Alan Kazdin, PhD, a Yale University psychology professor and director of the Yale Parenting Center and Child Conduct Clinic. You cannot punish out these behaviors that you do not want, says Kazdin, who served as APA president in 2008. There is no need for corporal punishment based on the research. We are not giving up an effective technique. We are saying this is a horrible thing that does not work.


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## Louise88

I'd never hit my daughter, I think there are other ways to discipline a child that's not physical. While pregnant with my daughter I watched way to many supernanny and nanny911 programmes and I deffinatly want to take the naughty step approach. The parents you see on those shows are generally people who have let there children get out of control to the point they lash out on their children through anger (being the spanking) I also watched a few episodes of dads disciplining with hot chilli powder pinning their child down and forcing chilli powder in the child's mouth I just don't get how these people think that's things like that is actually going to work.


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## Noelle610

lilly_bum said:


> iwa said:
> 
> 
> I was raised in the South of the U.S. ... I got spanked a lot as a kid, it was pretty much the only form of discipline I got. I very rarely got grounded but very frequently got spanked, sometimes got spanked AND grounded hahaha
> 
> By spank, I mean with a hand, a belt, or a switch but usually on the butt and always when clothed. That happened til I was about 13 years old.
> 
> I never saw anything wrong with it back then and I really don't now either...it is just a cultural thing. I never saw myself as abused and no one else in my community would have either. It was just the only form of discipline our parents knew.
> 
> I really don't think I will spank my kids, especially since my OH does not agree with it and sees it as abuse. I do kind of worry about it though. I guess I will know more about how I feel about it when I actually have a child myself.
> 
> It is a really confusing topic for me.
> 
> EDIT: I will say that I do not agree with being spanked over every little thing. I won't spank my kids because they didn't put their plate in the sink or didn't wash the dishes when they were told to or they went too far from the house or went into a room they weren't supposed to etc.
> 
> wre im from its illegal too hit a child with a weapon i really hope u do choose not too hit ure child :(Click to expand...

It's absolutely legal to hit a child in the US with a belt, switch, whatever - honestly, most folks in the southern USA would laugh to hear you refer to these things as "weapons" :haha:

I don't necessarily think of spanking as "abuse". It's largely culture in the southern US and I think it's normal to feel conflicted about it (my DH is from Texas and feels similarly). I just don't think it is effective and I think it can be dangerous in terms of it's effects. BUT, our older generations and even many people today just don't know this. They're just doing what they were taught and trying to be the best parents they can.


----------



## moomoo

I don't know what to think, I have never smacked my children but I have come close with DS, and walked Away upstairs and screamed into and hit my pillow. YES he does push me that far. 

I can definitely see how people end up smacking their children, it's not a path I'd take though


----------



## Randianne

I think that the circumstances people are citing where the parent loses control and hits the child out of frustration or anger is definitely wrong. For me, that's not spanking. That's just hitting. True spanking is a very controlled.

I am conflicted about it. I think that at my child's age and for most young children, it is ineffective and sends a wrong message. However, I can't condemn parents who choose it when they have exhausted all other methods. Time outs and reasoning don't always work and sometimes it's not a lesson they can afford to learn over time. 

One of my best friends, who was vehemently anti-spanking, is going through this with her son. He is eight years old and he likes to set fires. They have done everything they can think of to stop it. They have taken away privileges, given him time outs, taken him to counselors, and talked to him about it until they were blue in the face. He doesn't care. He cannot be convinced that he can't control a fire when it starts. After he set fire to the bathroom trash (with matches he got from a friend at school) in the middle of the night, they resorted to spanking him. It was the only thing that would convince him not to start fires. Was it fear based? Yes it was. But if a trained counselor couldn't figure out how to get through to him any other way, what choice did they have? I know they didn't spank him out of anger. They spanked him because his fascination with fire was endangering lives and it was the only deterrent that was effective. Other methods could have been effective over time, but they didn't have time. This was the third fire he had set in and around their home. 

I think spanking is overused. Too often it is used as an easy discipline method. It can cause harm and I don't think it should be used in the majority of circumstances. However, I totally understand a parent doing it in situations where the child's actions are dangerous. 

I've spent a lot of time researching this and I can't find a single study for either side without major flaws. The pro-spanking side tends to rely on surveys to back their studies, while the anti-spanking side tends to lump spanking in with pushing, shoving, kicking and flat out physical abuse in their studies. Spanking, as I understand it, is done when a child has been warned that their actions will result in a spanking and then carried out when a parent is calm. I have yet to see any studies done on these cases. Probably because a lot of people misunderstand what spanking is supposed to be. Or maybe I'm the one with the differing definition. I'm not sure, really.

I spanked my LO once and I cried right along with her. I won't be doing it again unless there is an immediate safety issue.


----------



## highhopes19

When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly! 

I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.

Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.


----------



## Noelle610

highhopes19 said:


> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.

Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:

I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).


----------



## _jellybean_

No.


----------



## staralfur

I think crime associated with lack of discipline would likely be in cases where the parents just don't care enough to discipline. So neglect, basically. 

There are certainly consequences to not giving your children consequences. But it doesn't have to be in the form of physical discipline or even grounding. I was only ever grounded once and it was because I was playing in a construction zone (obviously really dangerous) and not because I had done something 'bad', per se. 

Usually if I did something purposely deviant, like lying or calling my mom a bitch or not coming home on time, I'd just get a stern talking to. Most of the time having my parents tell me how much I hurt/upset/worried them was effective enough to discourage me from doing it again. I respected them completely and never needed rigid punishment to keep from being "a little shit" on the street. 

I realize those methods don't necessarily appeal to every child, but as I said earlier, I don't think kids causing havoc is a result of parents not disciplining their kids a certain way or being 'scared' to spank/ground/whatever, rather a lack of concern for their kids' behaviour in general.


----------



## highhopes19

Noelle610 said:


> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...

I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty. 
I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.


----------



## highhopes19

staralfur said:


> I think crime associated with lack of discipline would likely be in cases where the parents just don't care enough to discipline. So neglect, basically.
> 
> There are certainly consequences to not giving your children consequences. But it doesn't have to be in the form of physical discipline or even grounding. I was only ever grounded once and it was because I was playing in a construction zone (obviously really dangerous) and not because I had done something 'bad', per se.
> 
> Usually if I did something purposely deviant, like lying or calling my mom a bitch or not coming home on time, I'd just get a stern talking to. Most of the time having my parents tell me how much I hurt/upset/worried them was effective enough to discourage me from doing it again. I respected them completely and never needed rigid punishment to keep from being "a little shit" on the street.
> 
> I realize those methods don't necessarily appeal to every child, but as I said earlier, I don't think kids causing havoc is a result of parents not disciplining their kids a certain way or being 'scared' to spank/ground/whatever, rather a lack of concern for their kids' behaviour on the part of the parents.

Perhaps its just me then :shrug:. But the kids where I grew up really were and still are "the little shits" you see in the street drinking, mugging old ladies and their parents were scared of them literally were to worried to do anything. If these parents from a young age nipped their behaviour in the bud and disciplined them then perhaps they may have turned out different.

I don't think its right to hit children at all... I even blooming reported my own sil and her partner for beating her 3 year old (some of you may remember)... So I am aware of the difference between a tap and a beating. Also my dad was physically abused by his step dad growing up as was his sister who are still baring physical scars now from the beatings. I would never dream of doing that to my daughter! But if she's doing something so naughty or something really dangerous then I'm not going to say I won't ever give her a tap on the bum. And if I did I would feel guilty after.


----------



## babyhopes2010

this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:

my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!


----------



## Noelle610

highhopes19 said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...

Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.

Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates. 



babyhopes2010 said:


> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!

Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.

And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.


----------



## highhopes19

Noelle610 said:


> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.
> 
> Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates.
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!Click to expand...
> 
> Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.
> 
> And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.Click to expand...

Being a criminal isnt an addiction though:shrug:.


----------



## Noelle610

highhopes19 said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.
> 
> Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates.
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!Click to expand...
> 
> Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.
> 
> And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.Click to expand...
> 
> Being a criminal isnt an addiction though:shrug:.Click to expand...

No, but I'm referring to the previous poster that mentioned her brother is a drug addict and could have done with a "few taps on the ass".


----------



## babyhopes2010

Noelle610 said:


> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.
> 
> Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates.
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!Click to expand...
> 
> Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.
> 
> And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.Click to expand...
> 
> Being a criminal isnt an addiction though:shrug:.Click to expand...
> 
> No, but I'm referring to the previous poster that mentioned her brother is a drug addict and could have done with a "few taps on the ass".Click to expand...

im talking about his attitude towards authority. but u dont know my brother and therapist did not help!


----------



## Noelle610

babyhopes2010 said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.
> 
> Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates.
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!Click to expand...
> 
> Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.
> 
> And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.Click to expand...
> 
> Being a criminal isnt an addiction though:shrug:.Click to expand...
> 
> No, but I'm referring to the previous poster that mentioned her brother is a drug addict and could have done with a "few taps on the ass".Click to expand...
> 
> im talking about his attitude towards authority. but u dont know my brother and therapist did not help!Click to expand...

No, I don't know your brother, and I understand that addiction is complicated. Most things - therapy, 12 step programs, etc - don't work unless they have the desire to get better.

But in terms of an attitude toward authority? Do you think having authority figures hitting him would have encouraged him to respect them? I just don't see the logic in that.


----------



## babyhopes2010

Noelle610 said:


> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.
> 
> Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates.
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!Click to expand...
> 
> Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.
> 
> And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.Click to expand...
> 
> Being a criminal isnt an addiction though:shrug:.Click to expand...
> 
> No, but I'm referring to the previous poster that mentioned her brother is a drug addict and could have done with a "few taps on the ass".Click to expand...
> 
> im talking about his attitude towards authority. but u dont know my brother and therapist did not help!Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don't know your brother, and I understand that addiction is complicated. Most things - therapy, 12 step programs, etc - don't work unless they have the desire to get better.
> 
> But in terms of an attitude toward authority? Do you think having authority figures hitting him would have encouraged him to respect them? I just don't see the logic in that.Click to expand...

yes i honestly do. if my dad had been there and been a lil more authoritive in his life and gave him a(im stronger than you) tap it would have helped. but like i said u cant base one method to suit all. anyway we are taking about toddlers :)

my bro was never exposed to violence yet he has broken my nose,wrist and beaten me black and blue throughout my childhood. go figure:shrug:


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## onetwothreebp

I think there is a huge difference between spanking a toddler or spanking a child. I find it hard to spank a toddler because they can't be fully reasoned with, they are still testing their boundaries and learning. Children are a different story though. 

I was spanked as a child and I look negatively upon it because it was done out of wrath and not because it was a discipline method. My OH looks at spanking positively because he had "good" experiences with it where it was rare, a last resort, and not done immediately after the crime so the parent was in full control of their emotions. 

We haven't decided if we will spank LO or not, he is still years too young for such a decision. I lean towards no, OH leans towards yes. I suspect I will not and OH will do it when he deems necessary and I will just keep out of it. We'll see though, lots can change between now and then.


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## Noelle610

babyhopes2010 said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
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> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
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> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> highhopes19 said:
> 
> 
> When I was little I was smacked, its not scarred me for life, despite what I've read by certain posters on here it hasn't taught me hitting is ok I don't go round smacking Isabelle about willy nilly!
> 
> I remember also when it came on the news when I was younger that were going to make smacking children illegal (I can't remember the hole headline I was only little) whenever I was naughty I would use that it was illegal as a cheeky back chat to my parents! That they were breaking the law lol.
> 
> Tbh I think if more parents werent to scared to discipline their children and I don't mean just smacking, things like grounding, taking away privalidges etc their wouldn't be so many of the little shits you see causing havoc on the streets today.
> 
> Just because YOU weren't affected by it (consciously) doesn't mean it affects no one :dohh:
> 
> I don't think parents being scared to discipline their children has anything to do with crime. In my city, most of the subcultures more apt to use physical punishment are actually those who commit the most crimes. I'd argue this is true in most of the US and probably elsewhere. (And just to be clear I'm not saying they're committing crimes because they were spanked as children, I just don't think being spanked as children would make them *less* likely to commit crimes).Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say it won't affect everyone but there is a clear difference between being beaten black and blue and having a tap on the bum when you are VERY naughty.
> I also stated disapline in general not just smacking, more disapline in the general term is needed.Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course, but I still disagree with you. In the US, the African-American community has very high crime rates. Spanking (and NOT abuse and/or beating) is also very common. There's just no correlation. There's a lot that goes into crime rates - economics, education, history, whatever, but I generally don't think a lack of discipline is a factor unless we're talking neglect as Staralfur mentioned.
> 
> Take Sweden, for example. Spanking is illegal. They also have very low crime rates.
> 
> 
> 
> babyhopes2010 said:
> 
> 
> this thread is silly. theres a BIG difference between tapping a bum and hitting a childs head off a wall! :wacko:
> 
> my brother is a criminal and a drug addict he could have done with a few taps on the ass!Click to expand...
> 
> Umm... addiction is a disease and most likely wouldn't have been curbed by any kind of discipline. But that's another conversation entirely. Your brother probably could use some counseling and medical help rather than a spanking. I'm sorry if that sounds harshbut my mother is a therapist who specializes in addiction and I get a little sensitive when people assume addiction is a behavioral problem.
> 
> And personally, I think the thread is an interesting conversation and not at all silly.Click to expand...
> 
> Being a criminal isnt an addiction though:shrug:.Click to expand...
> 
> No, but I'm referring to the previous poster that mentioned her brother is a drug addict and could have done with a "few taps on the ass".Click to expand...
> 
> im talking about his attitude towards authority. but u dont know my brother and therapist did not help!Click to expand...
> 
> No, I don't know your brother, and I understand that addiction is complicated. Most things - therapy, 12 step programs, etc - don't work unless they have the desire to get better.
> 
> But in terms of an attitude toward authority? Do you think having authority figures hitting him would have encouraged him to respect them? I just don't see the logic in that.Click to expand...
> 
> yes i honestly do. if my dad had been there and been a lil more authoritive in his life and gave him a(im stronger than you) tap it would have helped. but like i said u cant base one method to suit all. anyway we are taking about toddlers :)
> 
> my bro was never exposed to violence yet he has broken my nose,wrist and beaten me black and blue throughout my childhood. go figure:shrug:Click to expand...

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the details, but I'm really sorry you had to deal with that as a child. Sounds really awful :hugs:


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## freckleonear

I was brought up in a culture where smacking was considered normal and even necessary. My few memories of being smacked are not bad. My parents were usually very calm, explained why we were being smacked and we knew that they were doing it because they loved us. I grew up strongly in favour of smacking and that was automatically how I disciplined when I had my eldest.

It didn't work for him. Not only that, but it actually made things worse. After a lot of researching and soul-searching, my views on smacking have completely changed. Smacking my son is honestly my biggest parenting regret, I would give anything to be able to change that. Looking back at my own childhood, I can now see that I didn't turn out well *because* of smacking, I turned out well *in spite* of it, because my parents always showed me unconditional love.

Alfie Kohn's book Unconditional Parenting is great for references and research about different discipline styles. This article (https://realchilddevelopment.com/parenting/its-time-to-change-the-way-we-parent-our-children) about how fear blocks learning rings very true for me and fits in perfectly with what we know about how the brain works (in fight or flight situations the amygdala takes over and prevents the prefrontal cortex being used for reasoning). Smacking may be able to condition a child into behaving differently to avoid an unwanted consequence, but it cannot teach a child how to do what is right.


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## Noelle610

Does smacked mean spanked in the uk? In the us it would mean smacking someone in the face.


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## lau86

My LO laughed at me when I "smacked" him. Not in a nervous way either, he genuinely thought it was hilarious as he got a rise out of me
I don't plan to do it again but I must say I think there's a difference between the odd tap and hitting and abusing a child. I won't be doing it again not because I fear it'll have long term psychological consequences but because its pointless and I don't want him copying. 
I think parents who are otherwise "good" won't cause any harm with the occasional smack. 
I was smacked as a child, personally I found it no worse than being sent to bed early. 
I appreciate other people have different views though and won't agree.


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## freckleonear

Noelle610 said:


> Does smacked mean spanked in the uk? In the us it would mean smacking someone in the face.

Yes, smack is the UK version of spank.


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## Tiff

I've only spanked Claire a handful of times, and only when she's done something super dangerous. 

My hubby and I are at odds with this - he grew up being smacked/spanked all the time whereas my parents only did it with me when something was seriously wrong. I never liked being spanked and would do whatever I could do avoid it, he couldn't avoid it as his father had quite the temper. :nope:

I never grew up scared of my parents, whereas he had a "healthy" fear of his father. I don't want that for Claire.

So yeah. She is a flight risk and bolts from me and thinks its a game. She got a spank on the bum (one spank mind you) because she refused to listen to me about it. Hubby got spanked/smacked if he looked at his Dad wrong.

I'm torn, as I dislike any sort of physical violence. But I can count on less than 1 hand how many times I've done it, and my kiddo is 4.5


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## Leids

I've done a lot of research on corporal punishment (spanking and whatnot). I was required to do a large behavioral project for my undergrad and it was on how corporal punishment can affect a child's development.

Most of the information is from memory as I worked on it for months, but I can dig it up and provide references if anyone is interested.

Corporal punishment (this is using physical force of any type, smacking, spanking, slapping) is effective in one way, it generally provides immediate compliance from the child and also makes the parent feel better because they take their anger out on the child by doing so. The real danger is when the parent goes too far out of sheer frustration, many times they don't know their own strength and end up hurting the child. This doesn't happen _all_ the time but it can easily be done.

Secondary dangers include long-term effects that can occur for a multitude of reasons. The primary concern is how much stress the child is under while being punished. Children who are from homes who incorporate physical punishment as a means to discipline their child tend to have less white matter in their brains. White matter is very important - it affects how the child learns. And, just as stress can negatively impact our lives, it can impact a child's life in a lot of ways as well. Behavioral problems and stress induced illnesses are common in kids who are physically punished.

Spanking is effective short-term, but completely ineffective long-term. Instead of the child being given time to think about their actions they're left angry and confused. It also creates a fearful environment and can result in major behavioral issues, not only as children but as they grow into adults as well. It can increase the chances of an adult becoming depressed, having anxiety, etc. And, it also teaches children an inappropriate way of handling their emotions. I remember my father beating me because I smacked my brother for taking something of mine - so it's not okay for me to smack my brother but it's okay for my dad to beat me? How does that make sense to a child?

It's not necessary. There are other ways to discipline, there are positive ways to discipline. I wish that more information was given regarding discipline methods because so many people don't know. It's just not worth it. I understand that kids can be a pain in the butt, that they can be annoying and push buttons. I was forced into raising my sister when I was only 11, and she tested my patience like crazy. 

It's hard to control yourself, but your child seeing that you can maintain control is such a good lesson for them that they will eventually try to imitate when they're put into a situation where they're frustrated. Instead of lashing out and getting angry, they will think through it and respond appropriately.


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## JASMAK

Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.


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## YoshiPikachu

I try not do because I think it's wrong.


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## RachA

Yes I will do but I don't do it just for the sake of it. 

I was smacked/spanked as a child-I would say in total it was 5 times. 

I have no issues with it for me personally. It will be because nothing else is working or because I need an immediate response to something (ie smack her hand lightly away because she is touching the oven or fire etc). 

Discipline is a very personal thing. What one person is happy with others aren't and the other way round. 
I don't believe that smacks should just be handed out for the sake of it. I also think that other things should be tried first and if a smack is 'needed' then the child should be told that a smack is what's going to happen if they persist. Also there should be no anger in it-if you are angry then you don't smack until you yourself have calmed down.


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## Itsychik

JASMAK said:


> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.

The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.


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## bumpbear

I was threatened with being smacked by being given 'the look' as a kid and that was enough to keep me in line. I was tapped occasionally if I was doing something unsafe. I have no issues with that approach, though I have a feeling my kid won't take my 'look' seriously. I have tapped LO out of frustration before when other positive reinforcement/distraction techniques failed (she is going through a phase of whacking me and others around the face at the mo and on that occasion managed to break my glasses). I instantly regretted it as she's still far too small for that. She is a very boisterous child and doesn't really listen to what she is being told if present behavior is anything to go by. Hopefully she will grow out of it as I fear words alone will not work with her. I will never hit her to hurt her though.


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## Leids

Itsychik said:


> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...

The purpose of spanking is to inflict pain so that the child associates what they did with pain and fear therefore won't do it anymore. It really isn't that different, it elicits the same response from both a child and from an adult. The only difference is an adult can fight back, a child can't.


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## Randianne

Leids said:


> Itsychik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of spanking is to inflict pain so that the child associates what they did with pain and fear therefore won't do it anymore. It really isn't that different, it elicits the same response from both a child and from an adult. The only difference is an adult can fight back, a child can't.Click to expand...

Out of real curiosity, what do you do when it's an immediate safety issue and other methods aren't effective? Reasoning and time outs don't always work. With most issues I understand that you have time to work on them, but when what they're doing is dangerous I'm honestly not sure how you fix the problem. It seems like in those cases they need a be a little fearful to keep them from getting hurt or worse.


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## Abigailly

I have smacked her, twice. Both times were loss of control on my part. Which for me makes it even worse. Each time it has brought me to tears and the first time I phoned my HV and told her that I thought I needed reported. 

Neither were hard, but both were enough to shock her. And enough to make me see about my depression.

I don't see why anyone would want to inflict pain on their child. The way I see it, there's always an alternative and a smack is a cop out. For a smack to be effective it has to cause pain so that the child associates pain with whatever they are doing.

I don't want to smack the fear of God into Niamh. Nor do I want to teach her that violence is acceptable.

The best one I've ever seen was a mum at playgroup whose son was about to run across the road so she smacked the back oh his legs. He hit her back and then she had the audacity to roar 'don't you ever hit me!', at him. Where's the sense in that? Oh, there's something dangerous, let me punish you with something else you're not allowed to do.

I don't agree with it, nor will I ever. I can't see a single situation where violence is the answer.


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## Abigailly

Randianne said:


> Leids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itsychik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of spanking is to inflict pain so that the child associates what they did with pain and fear therefore won't do it anymore. It really isn't that different, it elicits the same response from both a child and from an adult. The only difference is an adult can fight back, a child can't.Click to expand...
> 
> Out of real curiosity, what do you do when it's an immediate safety issue and other methods aren't effective? Reasoning and time outs don't always work. With most issues I understand that you have time to work on them, but when what they're doing is dangerous I'm honestly not sure how you fix the problem. It seems like in those cases they need a be a little fearful to keep them from getting hurt or worse.Click to expand...

What's so dangerous that it's something you can't prevent instantly?

If they run out on the road I tell them it's not acceptable. Then, they lose their privilege of freedom and have to hold my hand until they can show me how to cross the road properly.


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## Leids

Randianne said:


> Leids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itsychik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of spanking is to inflict pain so that the child associates what they did with pain and fear therefore won't do it anymore. It really isn't that different, it elicits the same response from both a child and from an adult. The only difference is an adult can fight back, a child can't.Click to expand...
> 
> Out of real curiosity, what do you do when it's an immediate safety issue and other methods aren't effective? Reasoning and time outs don't always work. With most issues I understand that you have time to work on them, but when what they're doing is dangerous I'm honestly not sure how you fix the problem. It seems like in those cases they need a be a little fearful to keep them from getting hurt or worse.Click to expand...

Usually in those circumstances your own fear will scare them and make them realize what they were doing was unsafe. 

I can give you some examples (I'm not saying I handle them perfectly, I'm sure there are better ways to approach this one).

When my sister was 3 we lived in an area where we had to park on the street. I was with my older brother who was driving and when he parked on the side of the street my sister rushed out of the car into traffic (prior to car seats being enforced as much). She was actually clipped by a car because I rushed out and pulled her back just as a car was coming. The guy in the car stopped and made sure she was okay, but I was _extremely_ upset as anyone would be. 

There were a lot of times I wanted to spank my sister. It wasn't that I didn't believe in it at the time, it was that I didn't feel it was my place even though I was raising her. What I did was I pulled her aside and said in simple terms that had I not intervened she would have a very big booboo and be in the hospital (she had been in the hospital for a length of time before that so understood what that meant). She didn't understand death so I didn't mention it. 

Afterwards I spent about 15-20 minutes showing her the appropriate way to get out of a car. We all got back in the car, and I made her wait until I got out, and told her to get out on the side not facing the road. I did it until I knew she fully understood what I meant. After that, she always waited for me to get out of the car first and she would move to the side closest to the sidewalk not to the road.

This event was traumatizing to me though, and I remember clearly that I really wanted to hit her and honestly I probably would have if I was her mother. But the way I handled it seemed to work as well and she understood, she saw my fear and that scared her, and then I worked with her to do it the right way so she learned.

---

William is very rough and tumble and likes to get into a lot of trouble. I usually over dramatize things to get my point across. So say he tries to grab something hot, I pull him away and say "hot! ouch ouch" while reenacting what he did myself (without actually touching it). I'll blow on my fingers and act like it really hurt me. I try to keep it simple because I know he doesn't understand. It really just takes persistence at a young age, because they don't understand. They wouldn't understand hitting either, iykwim.

As he gets older and he tries to do things that can hurt him, I'll pull him away from the situation and make him do it the right way a few times so it sticks in his head. Similar to what I did when my sister was young. It seemed to work well with her. I tried to make it exciting and give a lot of praise so that it became a game of sorts. But it was a good game that taught her how to be responsible! After a certain amount of time, she would get excited to do things the _right_ way because I would praise her and she avoided things that would upset me.

I have a feeling William will test his boundaries a bit more, and I'll have to fine tune my approach with him. It's more or less just finding something that works for you and your kiddo, but positive reinforcement can be done with any child it just may take different approaches.

I hope that makes sense. :haha: Sorry I keep writing books.


----------



## Randianne

Abigailly said:


> Randianne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itsychik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of spanking is to inflict pain so that the child associates what they did with pain and fear therefore won't do it anymore. It really isn't that different, it elicits the same response from both a child and from an adult. The only difference is an adult can fight back, a child can't.Click to expand...
> 
> Out of real curiosity, what do you do when it's an immediate safety issue and other methods aren't effective? Reasoning and time outs don't always work. With most issues I understand that you have time to work on them, but when what they're doing is dangerous I'm honestly not sure how you fix the problem. It seems like in those cases they need a be a little fearful to keep them from getting hurt or worse.Click to expand...
> 
> What's so dangerous that it's something you can't prevent instantly?
> 
> If they run out on the road I tell them it's not acceptable. Then, they lose their privilege of freedom and have to hold my hand until they can show me how to cross the road properly.Click to expand...

My best friend's son starts fires. He gets the supplies to start them at school and the gets up in the middle of the night to set them. Also, in the crossing the road scenario, it is possible for them to jerk away or to run into the road when you're not looking. You could be at the sink and your child runs past you to the stove. There are a lot of accidents that could happen even if you've warned them of danger. Kids are impulsive and parents can't stop everything.


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## Randianne

Leids said:


> Usually in those circumstances your own fear will scare them and make them realize what they were doing was unsafe.
> 
> I can give you some examples (I'm not saying I handle them perfectly, I'm sure there are better ways to approach this one).
> 
> When my sister was 3 we lived in an area where we had to park on the street. I was with my older brother who was driving and when he parked on the side of the street my sister rushed out of the car into traffic (prior to car seats being enforced as much). She was actually clipped by a car because I rushed out and pulled her back just as a car was coming. The guy in the car stopped and made sure she was okay, but I was _extremely_ upset as anyone would be.
> 
> There were a lot of times I wanted to spank my sister. It wasn't that I didn't believe in it at the time, it was that I didn't feel it was my place even though I was raising her. What I did was I pulled her aside and said in simple terms that had I not intervened she would have a very big booboo and be in the hospital (she had been in the hospital for a length of time before that so understood what that meant). She didn't understand death so I didn't mention it.
> 
> Afterwards I spent about 15-20 minutes showing her the appropriate way to get out of a car. We all got back in the car, and I made her wait until I got out, and told her to get out on the side not facing the road. I did it until I knew she fully understood what I meant. After that, she always waited for me to get out of the car first and she would move to the side closest to the sidewalk not to the road.
> 
> This event was traumatizing to me though, and I remember clearly that I really wanted to hit her and honestly I probably would have if I was her mother. But the way I handled it seemed to work as well and she understood, she saw my fear and that scared her, and then I worked with her to do it the right way so she learned.
> 
> ---
> 
> William is very rough and tumble and likes to get into a lot of trouble. I usually over dramatize things to get my point across. So say he tries to grab something hot, I pull him away and say "hot! ouch ouch" while reenacting what he did myself (without actually touching it). I'll blow on my fingers and act like it really hurt me. I try to keep it simple because I know he doesn't understand. It really just takes persistence at a young age, because they don't understand. They wouldn't understand hitting either, iykwim.
> 
> As he gets older and he tries to do things that can hurt him, I'll pull him away from the situation and make him do it the right way a few times so it sticks in his head. Similar to what I did when my sister was young. It seemed to work well with her. I tried to make it exciting and give a lot of praise so that it became a game of sorts. But it was a good game that taught her how to be responsible! After a certain amount of time, she would get excited to do things the _right_ way because I would praise her and she avoided things that would upset me.
> 
> I have a feeling William will test his boundaries a bit more, and I'll have to fine tune my approach with him. It's more or less just finding something that works for you and your kiddo, but positive reinforcement can be done with any child it just may take different approaches.
> 
> I hope that makes sense. :haha: Sorry I keep writing books.

I actually very much appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I agree with your approach, but I don't think that will work for all kids. That is where my questions lies. When reasoning and showing them alternatives have failed, what do you do? Some lessons take a long time to learn, and if running into the roads becomes a problem I'd rather my LO be afraid of it then rely on her underdeveloped reasoning skills (obviously when she's a bit older).


----------



## Leids

Randianne said:


> Abigailly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Randianne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itsychik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...
> 
> The purpose of spanking is to inflict pain so that the child associates what they did with pain and fear therefore won't do it anymore. It really isn't that different, it elicits the same response from both a child and from an adult. The only difference is an adult can fight back, a child can't.Click to expand...
> 
> Out of real curiosity, what do you do when it's an immediate safety issue and other methods aren't effective? Reasoning and time outs don't always work. With most issues I understand that you have time to work on them, but when what they're doing is dangerous I'm honestly not sure how you fix the problem. It seems like in those cases they need a be a little fearful to keep them from getting hurt or worse.Click to expand...
> 
> What's so dangerous that it's something you can't prevent instantly?
> 
> If they run out on the road I tell them it's not acceptable. Then, they lose their privilege of freedom and have to hold my hand until they can show me how to cross the road properly.Click to expand...
> 
> My best friend's son starts fires. He gets the supplies to start them at school and the gets up in the middle of the night to set them. Also, in the crossing the road scenario, it is possible for them to jerk away or to run into the road when you're not looking. You could be at the sink and your child runs past you to the stove. There are a lot of accidents that could happen even if you've warned them of danger. Kids are impulsive and parents can't stop everything.Click to expand...

I don't know your best friend or the situation so I can't really comment too much on that. Honestly it sounds like he may have a behavioral problem. Children who set fires generally have a lot of tension and when they start a fire it relieves that.

In that case, I would take him to a therapist with the entire family and see what kind of stress is in the home. Physical punishment would likely make that worse, not better. It's probably very tempting for them, but the reason he's starting the fire could be a cry for help, due to stress, attention seeking, developmental problems (if he has learning delays). So physical punishment would exacerbate the issue.

Note though that starting fires like that frequently is very uncommon, especially since it seems like he's going out of his way to do it and it doesn't just seem like curiosity. Again, I don't know the situation though.

As for the other scenarios, it just takes control. Usually the 'run away' phase is most common when they're toddlers and don't quite understand that they can be hit. There's no good answer to this one, sadly. If the area is busy I would just keep them in a stroller or carry them across the street.

For the stove, it's more or less prevention. Try to use back burners. Use a stove guard (prevents them from touching the burners). Make sure pot handles are turned inside, etc.

Here are links to a couple of stove guards:
https://www.amazon.com/RangeGuard-I...F8&qid=1372253994&sr=1-1&keywords=stove+guard

https://www.amazon.com/TotShield-St...F8&qid=1372253994&sr=1-5&keywords=stove+guard


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## Randianne

Leids said:


> I don't know your best friend or the situation so I can't really comment too much on that. Honestly it sounds like he may have a behavioral problem. Children who set fires generally have a lot of tension and when they start a fire it relieves that.
> 
> In that case, I would take him to a therapist with the entire family and see what kind of stress is in the home. Physical punishment would likely make that worse, not better. It's probably very tempting for them, but the reason he's starting the fire could be a cry for help, due to stress, attention seeking, developmental problems (if he has learning delays). So physical punishment would exacerbate the issue.
> 
> Note though that starting fires like that frequently is very uncommon, especially since it seems like he's going out of his way to do it and it doesn't just seem like curiosity. Again, I don't know the situation though.
> 
> As for the other scenarios, it just takes control. Usually the 'run away' phase is most common when they're toddlers and don't quite understand that they can be hit. There's no good answer to this one, sadly. If the area is busy I would just keep them in a stroller or carry them across the street.
> 
> For the stove, it's more or less prevention. Try to use back burners. Use a stove guard (prevents them from touching the burners). Make sure pot handles are turned inside, etc.
> 
> Here are links to a couple of stove guards:
> https://www.amazon.com/RangeGuard-I...F8&qid=1372253994&sr=1-1&keywords=stove+guard
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/TotShield-St...F8&qid=1372253994&sr=1-5&keywords=stove+guard

That's the thing, he has been to a total of three counselors, four doctors, and two psychologists. They talked, reasoned, grounded, and medicated. She was extremely anti-spanking but they resorted to it after nothing else worked. He wasn't afraid of fire because nothing could convince him that he couldn't control it. He was afraid of getting a spanking. In that case, I would absolutely spank. Better a child afraid of a spanking then a household dead because they were waiting for the lesson to sink in.

I agree that people are too quick to jump to spanking, but for some kids talking can't solve everything before they become a danger to themselves or others. I think that is when spanking comes in.


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## Leids

Randianne said:


> Leids said:
> 
> 
> I don't know your best friend or the situation so I can't really comment too much on that. Honestly it sounds like he may have a behavioral problem. Children who set fires generally have a lot of tension and when they start a fire it relieves that.
> 
> In that case, I would take him to a therapist with the entire family and see what kind of stress is in the home. Physical punishment would likely make that worse, not better. It's probably very tempting for them, but the reason he's starting the fire could be a cry for help, due to stress, attention seeking, developmental problems (if he has learning delays). So physical punishment would exacerbate the issue.
> 
> Note though that starting fires like that frequently is very uncommon, especially since it seems like he's going out of his way to do it and it doesn't just seem like curiosity. Again, I don't know the situation though.
> 
> As for the other scenarios, it just takes control. Usually the 'run away' phase is most common when they're toddlers and don't quite understand that they can be hit. There's no good answer to this one, sadly. If the area is busy I would just keep them in a stroller or carry them across the street.
> 
> For the stove, it's more or less prevention. Try to use back burners. Use a stove guard (prevents them from touching the burners). Make sure pot handles are turned inside, etc.
> 
> Here are links to a couple of stove guards:
> https://www.amazon.com/RangeGuard-I...F8&qid=1372253994&sr=1-1&keywords=stove+guard
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/TotShield-St...F8&qid=1372253994&sr=1-5&keywords=stove+guard
> 
> That's the thing, he has been to a total of three counselors, four doctors, and two psychologists. They talked, reasoned, grounded, and medicated. She was extremely anti-spanking but they resorted to it after nothing else worked. He wasn't afraid of fire because nothing could convince him that he couldn't control it. He was afraid of getting a spanking. In that case, I would absolutely spank. Better a child afraid of a spanking then a household dead because they were waiting for the lesson to sink in.
> 
> I agree that people are too quick to jump to spanking, but for some kids talking can't solve everything before they become a danger to themselves or others. I think that is when spanking comes in.Click to expand...

Hmm that is really strange. :nope: Does he still attempt to do it or has spanking solved the issue? Sounds like he's a pyromaniac which is really rare but it is quite dangerous.


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## Randianne

Leids said:


> Hmm that is really strange. :nope: Does he still attempt to do it or has spanking solved the issue? Sounds like he's a pyromaniac which is really rare but it is quite dangerous.

It did stop it. He hasn't tried to set a fire in two months, and he was trying to do it several times a day with whatever he could find. They still take a lot of precautions and have him in counseling. It definitely hasn't taken away the urge to start fires, but they're working on getting him to understand.


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## Leids

Randianne said:


> Leids said:
> 
> 
> Hmm that is really strange. :nope: Does he still attempt to do it or has spanking solved the issue? Sounds like he's a pyromaniac which is really rare but it is quite dangerous.
> 
> It did stop it. He hasn't tried to set a fire in two months, and he was trying to do it several times a day with whatever he could find. They still take a lot of precautions and have him in counseling. It definitely hasn't taken away the urge to start fires, but they're working on getting him to understand.Click to expand...

It's good that they did find something that worked. Pyromania is really rare and I'm pretty sure that therapy generally _doesn't_ work, but it can work for other causes (like if he was doing it for attention or because of stress). 

Anyways, back to studying. :haha: This thread has distracted me. :) Hopefully I gave some good alternatives for others though that don't know.


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## feedindy

I got a smack or spank a total of maybe 4 times when I was a kid because I was really out of line or did something dangerous. I know I deserved it. One time I said a bad word and I got a mouth of soap. I am not scarred about it. Actually I look back and laugh about the situations I got myself into that warranted the discipline. I do think it made me a better person actually. At that stage, I remember I wouldn't have cared to hear a parent reasoning with me or grounding me. I wouldn't have cared. But a spank really got me to realize what the heck I did. I would never spank a young child who didn't understand reasoning, or do some over-the-knee spanking. I would do a hand slap probably if something was absolutely out of line or dangerous.

I don't think one can look at spanking as the one thing that defines parenting, it is how you act the rest of the time as well. 
That's just my _opinion_ haha


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## aliss

I've done it once, when he ran out into the road (mind you on a loaded heavy diaper, didn't even feel it). It scared him, I put fear into him for that one. And I really don't care if some think it was "wrong", he could have been killed. That is the only time and I don't plan to do it again, but if I do, it will be for a damn good reason.

Yes, obviously I "talked" to him about the situation, and I know a woman who only has one of her two twins because that talk didn't work and one of them was hit and killed by a car at 5 years old when he ran into the road. So yes, I panicked and swatted his bum, and I would have done it the exact same way if I could redo it.


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## Leids

I didn't mean to make anyone feel bad or anything, just wanted to put that out there. I'm a very relaxed person in general and I'm not going to lie, there are some times when my automatic reaction is just to hit him but I don't. At one point he bit me so hard that he tore the skin off (it was in his mouth) and blood started pouring down my arm. I pushed him off of me and then put him in the crib because I was about to smack him for it. I don't get angry like that often.

I would have hit my sister if she ran out into the road if she had been my daughter, I know I would have. It was extremely terrifying and it makes me tear up thinking about it 12 years later. She could have easily died if I wasn't as quick as I was. I'm sure there's going to be a time where William just goes overboard and I'll end up smacking him. I'm sure I'll regret it, but I do understand why it happens.

I've done a lot of research on this, months and months worth. I've read huge studies that indicate that no ill-harm is done if it's _rarely_ used. However, MANY parents use it frequently. The average amount a parent uses physical punishment on a toddler in the US is 2-3 times a week (I'll try to dig up my report so I can share references). That's the main concern.


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## aliss

Ooops I didn't really read the other posts so sorry if mine came off aggressive towards anyone!! :)


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## Leids

aliss said:


> Ooops I didn't really read the other posts so sorry if mine came off aggressive towards anyone!! :)

:hugs:

Here are two of the references I used. They're a bit of a hard read, but Gershoff and Straus are big names that do a lot of studies on corporal punishment. They're generally the people quoted or referred to in text books and whatnot.


Corporal Punishment by Parents and Associated Child Behaviors and
Experiences: A Meta-Analytic and Theoretical Review / Elizabeth Gershoff
https://www.comm.umn.edu/~akoerner/courses/4471-F12/Readings/Gershoff (2002).pdf


Corporal Punishment by American Parents: National Data
on Prevalence, Chronicity, Severity, and Duration, in
Relation to Child and Family Characteristics / Straus & Stewart
https://uwf.edu/ejordan/web/DEP3103...IP_Essentials_files/Straus & Stewart 1999.pdf


There's information in Gershoff's study that evaluates how Sweden's crime rate has decreased since they enforced a ban on corporal punishment. At one point I had the actual study that was all about Sweden and is easier to read but I can't find my thumb drive anywhere. :dohh: I had a total of about 20 references, pretty sure no one wants to read through all that. It wasn't fun. :haha:


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## DaisyBee

https://stopspanking.org/2013/06/25/maternal-warmth-doesnt-make-spanking-less-harmful/

Ironically this was on my Facebook this morning. I didn't pay attention to the source or anything... Just putting it here if someone would want to read it.

And spanking for me is such a personal topic that I'm not sure how much I want to contibute to the thread. Dh and I have been talking a lot recently about discipline in general. I've just purchased some new books including "positive discipline" by jane nelson. We are trying to figure out how best to help our kids be the people we want them to be. I want to teach them why they shouldn't behave a certain way. I want them to come to me when they are a teenager with concerns. I don't want there to be power struggles. I want my kids to know how to calm themselves down and it be a positive thing. Even time outs used in the traditional sense don't seem to work for us. I don't see them accomplishing anything except for making her upset and angry at us. And what is that accomplishing? I've been using a version of time in for quite a while now, and I'm seeing such great results. Megan will actually tell me she is going in her room to "take a break" when she feels overwhelmed and like she needs a "time out". She will ask me to stay with her, or sometimes we read a book in her chair, sometimes we cuddle and talk in her bed. She has very intense feelings and yet is very sensitive and has a great respect for right and wrong. If she understands the reasons we don't do something she will listen to me unless she is is out of control or overwhelmed. I read something recently that I've been saying over in my mind since I've read it. "diffusing the intensity" it's exactly what Megan needs. Spanking and timeouts raise intensity which means to use either makes no sense for her. As I want to parent in ways that are for each individual child.

I was spanked a lot as a child by both of my parents, either with a hand or a wooden spoon. As a small child up until I moved out. My mom got wooden spoons for Xmas one year from my dad along some other kitchen things and my youngest brother is on videotape saying" for spanking!" with a smile. As it was such a normal thing in our childhood he automatically thought that when he saw them. As an adult seeing my brother saying that is such a shock. I honestly don't think it was good parenting on my parents part. I love my parents dearly, but really I think most of the time it was lazy parenting. As it really was so overused it was just ridiculous. I think of all the missed opportunities for teaching us something instead of a swat on the butt.

Eta - the video on the bottom of the link is interesting as well. I just watched it and it's exactly what I've been thinking about. Is this from the author of a book that's been mentioned in this thread?


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## PepsiChic

I dont like spanking/smacking/tapping. whatever you want to call its is phsyical punishment. and I would NEVER in a million years smack my husband, that would be spousal abuse...so why on earth would i raise a hand to a child?

I also personally hate the "its ok to give a tap on the bum"...did you know the other word for a tap is a blow? infact the very definition is:

"A quick light blow"...but how light is light? because ive watched these "taps" and the childs face says it all. what may seem light to an adult can feel like a rock to a small child. 

What I experianced as a child, and what i see with my in-laws shows things havent changed when it comes to phsyical punishment. it starts with a tap on the hand, then the leg or bum..then a harder smack or a spank, then 2 or 3 spanks, then 4 or 5. Then rough grabbing. Chasing the child down because they known whats coming and are fearful and try to hide, only to be chased down by the parent who pulls them from their hiding spot to spank them.

Its a punishment that can and will only esculate as the child slowly stops responding as they get older to the punishment being delt.

is a 14 year old going to care if you give them a light tap on the bum? what will you do then? 

its not for me and never will be.


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## JASMAK

Itsychik said:


> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...

i see it differently. Mental damage is worse than physical.


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## lozzy21

These little shits on the street as some one put it probably were smacked as children but most probably that was the only attention they got as children, the old Victorian view of children should be seen but not heard. As they get older they need to do worse things to get the attention until they end up as teenagers vandalising, steeling, beating people up. So no I don't think they needed a good smack as children, a hug and a "I love you" would have worked a million times better.


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## onetwothreebp

PepsiChic said:


> "A quick light blow"...but how light is light? because ive watched these "taps" and the childs face says it all. what may seem light to an adult can feel like a rock to a small child.

You also have to keep in mind that a child's face isn't reliable to determine their pain/happiness. I could spank my son or I could gently tell him no and he'd probably screw his face up and cry all the same, lol.


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## little_lady

I dunno. I don't really agree with it and I don't smack Isabelle.

On the other hand, almost everyone I know got smacked as a child and they are all fine, normal adults, so I think we are probably overestimating the effects. 

Also, there IS a line between a light tap and physical abuse, whether we like it or not. It's simply not the same.


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## Itsychik

JASMAK said:


> Itsychik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JASMAK said:
> 
> 
> Absolutely NEVER. You hit another grown up, its assault.
> 
> The way I see it, when you hit another adult the purpose is generally to inflict physical damage. That's not the purpose of 'spanking' children at all.Click to expand...
> 
> i see it differently. Mental damage is worse than physical.Click to expand...

Same concept though, the purpose of spanking isn't to inflict any type of damage, be it physical, mental, or emotional.

People and children react differently to being spanked. It may work for some and it won't work for others. At the end of the day I think it's a parenting choice that should be made while weighing all factors and by coming to an informed decision. And if you decide to spank you need to stay in tune with your child to see how they react and be able to determine/recognize if it is effective or not as a method of discipline.

I was a difficult child and for my parents it was an effective method. I'm not resentful at all, it didn't damage me in any way, and I didn't develop violent tendencies as either a child or adult as a result. That doesn't mean the same applies to everyone, but neither does it mean spanking is abusive and only for those who can't control themselves.

I respect those who say they will never spank and don't agree with it, but at the same time I will make my own choice based on what I think is best and most effective for my family. :flower:


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## JASMAK

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I dont think it should be a 'parenting choice' personally.


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## x__amour

Never. It's basically instiling fear. I ldon't understand when parents smack their children for hitting. "No, we don't hit!" *Smack* That makes sense...


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## onetwothreebp

x__amour said:


> Never. It's basically instiling fear. I ldon't understand when parents smack their children for hitting. "No, we don't hit!" *Smack* That makes sense...

Oh hey, that's kind of like the death penalty! :haha:


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## hubblybubbly

Not a chance, why would I inflict physical pain on the the person I love most in the world and do my utmost to protect from harm? If someone hits her at a playgroup I tell them off, same if she (very rarely) hits someone else.

I think it gives a shoddy message....it's ok to hit someone if they are smaller than you and doing something you disagree with, I'm trying to teach willow that violence on any level is unacceptable, not "well it's alright if it's teaching someone a lesson"

I also don't want her to fear me or her dad, as I did my own father, to this day I have very little respect for him, as does my brother, we also both have anxiety issues from walking around on eggshells during our childhood in case we did or said something that caused a smacking. On the surface however we are both successful in our careers and relationships, so no it's not damaged us irrevocably, but I don't want my children to grow up in an environment where they are frightened to talk to me in case it sparks a violent response.


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## Ceejay123

EverythingXd said:


> I don't and I don't plan to in the future either.
> 
> For a start, children copy. If you hit them, even if it is a tap, that says to them that it is ok to hit and they will probably do it either to you or to other children. They won't necessarily understand that you didn't do it hard either, and may well hit hard when they copy you tapping them.
> 
> Secondly, what will you do if the tap doesn't work? Tap them again? Tap them harder? Smack them? Smack them harder? Speaking from experience, this form of discipline can escalate... I've had more garden canes broken across my bum/legs than I care to remember and when that didn't work, well let's just say it escalated further (yes, I was that stubborn).
> 
> Having said that, if you are completely in control of your emotions and are genuinely tapping because something is dangerous (say for instance they are about to burn themselves on something) then a tap may be more effective than some other forms of discipline as long as it is not over-used because it is likely to shock them into stopping immediately.

This exactly. I've never spanked, tapped, hit my son and never will. My other half wouldn't either. 

Purely because I believe in the escalation idea above.. Where does it stop? What when it doesn't bother them any more? Do you hit them harder?

I just couldn't do it.


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## Tiff

I don't know how I feel about the whole "when does it stop?" mentality. I have no problem at ALL giving a tap on the bum when she's done something extremely dangerous. Last week she was nearly hit by a car as she bolted from me. She got a spank for that one, definitely. 

With her Autism, I can't reason with her she doesn't understand. So at least for our household it isn't something that's handed out daily, weekly or even monthly. I can't fault a child for not understanding that I don't want her to get into a cupboard that I neglected to lock in the first place. 

But in the instance of the car, I'd rather spank her bum than have her be seriously injured or dead. I hate that my daugther is a flight risk, it scares the living daylights out of me.

It happened about a month ago too, she bolted from the house and I literally tackled her seconds before she stepped out in front of some jackass driving fast down the street. I didn't spank her then, had hoped that how scared I was and how upset I was (was bawling my eyes out) would do the trick.

No such luck. I suppose we'll see if this time got through to her? If it doesn't, then heaven help me as I have NO idea what else to do to get through to her that roads are dangerous and obviously I'm not going to haul off and belt her to see if THAT helps.

People can disagree with me, that's totally fine. :flower:

ETA - And since there's vaugeness as to what constitutes a spanking, my kiddo got one tap on the bum.


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## Indigo77

No way! :nope:


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