# 5 and self harming what do i do???



## samsugar7

OH's daughter stays with us every other weekend and extras if OH isnt working. We have her tonight and she has been told off (seriously told off and sent to bed early kind of telling off) she is tiny and keeps trying to pick Jaden up (he is 1 and over 25lb's) 

I came into the living room to watch her holding him and falling over knocking his head off the harth and her own knee off the harth too. She has been told and told and told about this. She has hardly any dicipline at home because her mum cant be arsed to put up with the screaming and bad mood after telling her off. 

OH is a push over when it comes to E because he feels like he has to be nice so she doesnt hate him. :shrug: So i took her upstairs and changed into PJ's and she was still screaming as i left the room ( i know its tuff love but she will never learn) after 10 mins of screaming i went back up to ask her to be quiet and she was ripping the skin off her toes making them bleed. I asked her what she was doing and she said that she would have to come downstairs if she was bleeding. 

OMG now she is either copying this behaviour or i dont know what or how she has learnt it. What on earth am i supposed to do? She is 5 and is self harming if this behaviour isnt stopped who knows where it may lead. 

I gave her a tissue and told her to wipe it and didnt take much notice so as not to give her the attention she wanted from doing it. :nope:

any advice ???


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## Boothh

:hugs: that musnt of been nice to see, 

i think you did the right thing in not paying it attention because that was obviously what shes aiming for, definatly dont let her get her own way after she has done this because she will start to develop the pattern like she said 'if she does this she gets to come downstairs' well dont let her come downstairs! hopefully she will quickly realise this is not the way to get what she wants and she will stop doing it, id have her word with her mum though if your on speaking terms or get OH to do it so that shes aware of it and you can work together to make sure it doesnt turn into something serious

:hugs: again hun xx


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## quaizer

My friends daughtr has some problems and she self harms. She is 6 and they rarely do it for attention. Going on my friends experience, she organised a meeting at the school and they took it from there. The school nurse was brilliant and through therapy, the little girl in question is making progress.

Please get help as these things an get worse before they get better.

If you need to ask anything or need support, Im only a message away and will find out what I can for you.

Wishing you all lots of love and luck xxx

PS. Your son is a beauty! Gonna be a heartbreaker he is :)


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## hypnorm

Think you defo need to talk to your OH and get him or yourself to talk to her mum as this is something that could get worse. Does she know that at home if she hurts her self she will get mothered? well done for not reacting and not giving in, as that would have just reinforced the self harming.
If it carries on then she might need to speak to social services or the health visitor.


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## emilyjade

id get her mum and your OH all in the same room and explain what you found her doing them go to school and see what they have seen if anything but iv never herd of a 5yr old doing that! hope it all works out hun keep us updated x


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## samsugar7

I have spoken to them both and neither seem to think its too serious as im the only one who saw it, the X seems to think i made it up :shrug:

I suggested that the trouble she is having at home and school and here is all related, and its not my fault (she suggested that mine and OH's relationship was responsible, then blamed Jaden being here) she needs continuity of rules and also to have alone time with both parents (X has a child with another dad also) 

but hey im just the qualified youth and care worker who doesnt know anything :dohh: I had never experienced anyone so young self harming so it really worried me. 

:flower:


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## aob1013

Oh dear :(
Well firstly, well done for not giving her the attention - it's what she wants. I would definately be making the Mother fully aware of this, and Dad!

You should not be having to deal with this :grr: x


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## mumof2girls

Hi im having the same problem with my 8 year old step son only he takes it to the extreme, he will punch/ hit himself, scratch till he bleeds, headbutt the wall throw himself around the room against his wardrobes etc it got that bad that meetings with the school and docs couldnt shed any light so we phoned social services. Jack now has a worker who comes out to see us all he says there is no problem that he can see and that we are doing everything right in regards to punishment for bad behaviour and praise for good behaviour but think me and oh had just got to the point that WE needed reassurance. Jack hasnt done it for several weeks now and behaviour has improved dramatically. Like you step daughter he did it after being told off. Our most recent visit from social worker was yesterday and as Jack hasnt self harmed for a while he thinks it was a passing phase of a way to get his anger out.... obviously if someone told you off you'd be pretty narked off. He also suggested that as he hasnt done it it shouldnt be brought up (as he was gonna do some work with him on this) but that if it starts again then he will talk to him and that we should tell him to punch a pillow or something instead of himself.

Not sure how much this will help you especially as her mum isnt onside and dad isnt too concerned. To be honest the first few times Jack did this his dad wasnt here to witness it and found it hard to believe but he has since seen it for himself and knows full well what he does. Now its Jacks nana that doesnt believe it coz she hasnt seen it and in her eyes Jack could never do anything like that! 

Also we used to try and talk to jack about why he was doing it but it made it worse so we ignored it and funnily enough he hasnt done it for ages!


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## Darkest

Not got any advice really but just wanted to say well done for at least trying to dicipline her! What chance has she got if her Mum lets her do what she wants and your OH is soft(i do understand why he is doing it and not having a go).
Really hope you get things sorted.


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## SummersMummyx

I think maybe i'm going to disagree,
you gave the 5 year old a tissue and told her to wipe it?

I would of opened my arms and cuddled her first, asked her in a calm voice why she is doing that, and then tell her everything is ok, and i'd wipe away the blood, then bring her downstairs with me and involve her in whatever i was doing, so she didnt feel left out on her own.

Regardless to what sort of disciplin she gets at home from her mum, while she's in your care i personally beleive she should be shown as much love and affection as possible.
weather she's been naughty or not.

Just my opinion.


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## veganmum2be

not sure if i should say anything here
but i will..

i was a self harmer from a very young age, and i can tell you the last thing it was for was attention. yes maybe some children will do it purely for attention, but i would think in most cases its a massive cry for help. :shrug:

what a horrible thing to have to witness :hugs:


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## mommy2baby2

Perhaps she notices that you favoritize your child and treat her more coldly. She's 5 years old and regardless of how her mother disciplines (or doesn't) her, you should still treat her with the same love, respect & compassion you treat your own LO with. 

I understand that you have told her again and again (and again) not to pick up the baby but she's 5 YEARS OLD and she loves her little brother. 

She was picking her feet because she wanted attention. She feels neglected and I would do if I were in her position. And instead of comforting her you yelled at her, dragged her into her room and left angry. She then decided to hurt herself so that you would sympathize, help her and be around her. But instead you threw a wipe and told her to stop and left AGAIN. Do you not realize how this has hurt her feelings? She probably thought that if she came downstairs with blood you would have swooped her into your arms with hugs and kisses, rushed to get a bandaid and would have pampered her with love 'back to health'.

I think you handled it completely wrong. I have a 5 year old and although she doesn't intentionally do any serious self harm, she does make up stories about being scared or fake cries or just clings to me when she wants attention. Even after she has gotten in trouble for something and she is in time out, there have been times when I could tell she just needed comfort and I was there for her immediately. I could never imagine shutting her down emotionally just because I was fed up, annoyed or still angry. She's just a little girl who doesn't know any better. Yes, in your mind she _does_ know better but you aren't 5 and you also don't notice that you think very poorly of this little girl, her behavior and her mother, which I'm positive the little girl _does_ notice. And yes, my daughter has done a thing or two to hurt her younger sister, 95% of the time accidentally & unintentionally, she did get in trouble but I was always back with her with a few minutes KINDLY explaining what was wrong and why we don't do that, the entire time I'd be holding her and hugging her for comfort while she cried. Because after all, she is a CHILD and is still learning. 

And even if she isn't disciplined the way you want in her bio mother's home, that doesn't mean you need to treat her so coldly in your home. Set the rules, be consistant and teach them to her with PATIENCE. She is not at your house every single day so why is she expected to remember all of your rules, especially when you are so cold towards her? If she wants to hold the baby, let her do it with your help and teach her only to do this when you are around. 

Tough love is not cool and not a good way to parent. I feel for the little girl and would be livid at you if I were her bio mom...the same way you'd be livid if someone treated Jayden with 'tuff love'.

I just can't believe that you gave her a wipe and ignored her after she was hurting herself. Talk about a cry for help and you ignored it! It sucks that you will never love & respect her the way you love Jayden. :growlmad: It just breaks my heart that you could be so heartless towards a little girl. I could never imagine treating my daughter or anyone else's daughter like that. You didn't even stop to think to ask her why she was doing that, why she wanted to come downstairs again and then to talk about it with her. Instead, you threw a towel at her and told her to shut up. Wow. I mean, do you really think she intentionally was trying to hurt the baby? I don't.


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## samsugar7

mommy2baby2 said:


> Perhaps she notices that you favoritize your child and treat her more coldly.


I love that little girl as much as i do my own boy and would treat him in the same way, she is only 5 but is very clever and knows what she is doing there for old enough to take some responsibility for her actions. I definatly dont treat her more coldly, she goes home every time we see her and tells mum how great i am and how nice i am.




mommy2baby2 said:


> I understand that you have told her again and again (and again) not to pick up the baby but she's 5 YEARS OLD and she loves her little brother.

Yes i know she loves her little brother but in this instance she was being horrible, he had picked up something of hers and she was trying to move him away from it. She never shares anything and wont let Jaden play with his own toys. She cuddles Jaden but never tries to pick him up when we are around it was done on purpose and not out of love.



mommy2baby2 said:


> She was picking her feet because she wanted attention. She feels neglected and I would do if I were in her position. And instead of comforting her you yelled at her, dragged her into her room and left angry. She then decided to hurt herself so that you would sympathize, help her and be around her. But instead you threw a wipe and told her to stop and left AGAIN. Do you not realize how this has hurt her feelings? She probably thought that if she came downstairs with blood you would have swooped her into your arms with hugs and kisses, rushed to get a bandaid and would have pampered her with love 'back to health'.

Exactly she wanted attention, she was sent to her room for really hurting her little brother, he had a big red mark and a bump for days after she dropped him. I didnt want to give her good attention for hurting herself - she would then start doing it more often when she had been told off just to get the attention. She can take responsibility for some of her actions and so punishments must be adhered too.




mommy2baby2 said:


> I think you handled it completely wrong. I have a 5 year old and although she doesn't intentionally do any serious self harm, she does make up stories about being scared or fake cries or just clings to me when she wants attention. Even after she has gotten in trouble for something and she is in time out, there have been times when I could tell she just needed comfort and I was there for her immediately. I could never imagine shutting her down emotionally just because I was fed up, annoyed or still angry. She's just a little girl who doesn't know any better. Yes, in your mind she _does_ know better but you aren't 5 and you also don't notice that you think very poorly of this little girl, her behavior and her mother, which I'm positive the little girl _does_ notice. And yes, my daughter has done a thing or two to hurt her younger sister, 95% of the time accidentally & unintentionally, she did get in trouble but I was always back with her with a few minutes KINDLY explaining what was wrong and why we don't do that, the entire time I'd be holding her and hugging her for comfort while she cried. Because after all, she is a CHILD and is still learning.

She might still be learning but simple rules she follows at school like no hitting, spitting, throwing and such she is so used to she should be expected to follow at home too. Being sent to her room was only done after she tried to pick him up and fell over: 

a time out - after 5 mins we explained why she shouldnt to it hugs kisses and we carried on cooking

Another time out and toy taken off her (she picked him up again) same as above

Dropped him on the harth and really hurt him - sent to her room to bed (it was only 10 mins before her real bed time)




mommy2baby2 said:


> And even if she isn't disciplined the way you want in her bio mother's home, that doesn't mean you need to treat her so coldly in your home. Set the rules, be consistant and teach them to her with PATIENCE. She is not at your house every single day so why is she expected to remember all of your rules, especially when you are so cold towards her? If she wants to hold the baby, let her do it with your help and teach her only to do this when you are around.
> 
> Tough love is not cool and not a good way to parent. I feel for the little girl and would be livid at you if I were her bio mom...the same way you'd be livid if someone treated Jayden with 'tuff love'.


Again im not cold towards her and our rules are no more than would be expected of her at school. We have been over and over her not picking Jaden up when we are not around and often she sits with him on her lap when we are all sat down, after 13 months of asking her not to do it and calmly explaining why she should understand.

As for tuff love, i dont think it is. If a child is old enough to take responsibility for their actions and knowingly break rules and feel no guilt about doing so they should be punished in an effective and apropriate way. Cuddles and "dont do it again sweetheart" does not instil that what they did was wrong. 

As for Jaden if he does something wrong and is then told not to do it and it is explained and he can understand why he shouldnt i would punish him, and if after 3 time outs he does it again he would also be sent to bed early.



mommy2baby2 said:


> I just can't believe that you gave her a wipe and ignored her after she was hurting herself. Talk about a cry for help and you ignored it! It sucks that you will never love & respect her the way you love Jayden. :growlmad: It just breaks my heart that you could be so heartless towards a little girl. I could never imagine treating my daughter or anyone else's daughter like that. You didn't even stop to think to ask her why she was doing that, why she wanted to come downstairs again and then to talk about it with her. Instead, you threw a towel at her and told her to shut up. Wow. I mean, do you really think she intentionally was trying to hurt the baby? I don't.

Ok where on earth do i start, my sis (20) self harms and when we notice it she does it more. So i did the same with E, from experience with E if you ask her not to do something she will do it again and again and again till she does end up getting told off. If she got positive attention for self harming she would do it more often to get her own way. 

Thank you for taking the time to write your reply. 

Sam


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## KA92

:hugs: maybe as it seems her mum doesn't realy give a crap she just wants
some quality time with you and oh?

Maybe when putting her to bed read her q book or
something?

Then she gets attention but not for hurting herself or misbehaving :)


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## samsugar7

KA92 said:


> :hugs: maybe as it seems her mum doesn't realy give a crap she just wants
> some quality time with you and oh?
> 
> Maybe when putting her to bed read her q book or
> something?
> 
> Then she gets attention but not for hurting herself or misbehaving :)

She was only put to bed early in this instance after repetative bad behaviour, she always goes to bed with a story and gets treats and trips out that she wouldnt get normally. 

I only didnt make a point of it as her dad would have swooped her up and cuddles and everything like that so the behaviour we were punishing her for would have then been condoned. 

She hasnt done it since even though we have had to punish her for bad behaviour so i think i did the right thing as she knows she wont get the positive attention she wanted from doing it. 

Thank you all for your comments. 

xx


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## KA92

Ahh I see now. I actually agree with you as of she was given cuddles etc then that's condoning her hurting herself.

I'm glad she's no longer doing it Hun ad I can tell your trying yor eat and that you love her.

Good luck :)xxx


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## cabaretmum2b

I do agree that you did the right thing. Obviously you're not nasty to her and treat her as you treat your own child, and making a fuss would have shown her that self harming was an effective way to get out of punishments. Then it would have become a problem!
She said herself she did it to come downstairs, it's not like she accidentally banged her head or something and you ignored her!
I think you responded very well, and if I were her bio mother, I would be thankful that you dealt with it properly!


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## samsugar7

KA92 said:


> Ahh I see now. I actually agree with you as of she was given cuddles etc then that's condoning her hurting herself.
> 
> I'm glad she's no longer doing it Hun ad I can tell your trying yor eat and that you love her.
> 
> Good luck :)xxx

Thank you hun, it was so hard to watch and not cuddle her but enouraging the behaviour would have been the wrong thing to do :nope:

xxx


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## samsugar7

cabaretmum2b said:


> I do agree that you did the right thing. Obviously you're not nasty to her and treat her as you treat your own child, and making a fuss would have shown her that self harming was an effective way to get out of punishments. Then it would have become a problem!
> She said herself she did it to come downstairs, it's not like she accidentally banged her head or something and you ignored her!
> I think you responded very well, and if I were her bio mother, I would be thankful that you dealt with it properly!


thank you, some of the previous posts have really made me doubt what i did but this has helped. 

xx


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## KA92

samsugar7 said:


> KA92 said:
> 
> 
> Ahh I see now. I actually agree with you as of she was given cuddles etc then that's condoning her hurting herself.
> 
> I'm glad she's no longer doing it Hun ad I can tell your trying yor eat and that you love her.
> 
> Good luck :)xxx
> 
> Thank you hun, it was so hard to watch and not cuddle her but enouraging the behaviour would have been the wrong thing to do :nope:
> 
> xxxClick to expand...

Of course yourfirst Instinct is to hold them ad make the pain stop but your defs did te right thing Hun it's important to set boundries of good and bad behviour or other things so they know. Massive :hugs:


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