# "Don't bring him up as a white baby" - Rant



## TattiesMum

A bit of background ... my Grandson is mixed race. His mother (my daughter) is white and FOB is mixed race ... *his* mother is white and has 8 children from 8 different fathers of varying ethnicity... apart from a brief appearance by each sperm donor the children were raised by her and the state (both financially and periods of time in care)

FOB has never shown any great interest in Kaylum ... when he was a tiny baby he frequently didn't turn up to visit at appointed times, provided nothing in the way of financial support and moved away before the wee fella was 5 months :shrug: He did start court proceedings for access just under a year ago but dropped out of sight again after being asked to supply medical records stating he wasn't a risk (he is diagnosed as psychotic and uses that as an excuse not to work) and hair samples for drugs testing (he smokes weed heavily and takes coke).

Now he's shown his face again :growlmad: ... not through official channels of course but via FB - he hacked into someone else's account and sent my daughter messages ranting about how 'his' son was being brought up 'as a white baby' and he will be going to court to stop that :dohh:

A white baby??? He is being brought up to feel loved and valued as a person who can achieve whatever he wants from life - his skin colour has nothing to do with anything ... and given that FOB's idea of his ethnicity involves a huge chip on the shoulder, trousers hanging somewhere near his crotch, do rags, fake gangsta speech and smoking vast quantities of weed I can't quite see that being in Kaylum's best interests :gun:

What is this 'white baby' crap?? It's not as though FOB has this vast Caribbean family all eager to share love, lore and traditional values for goodness sake - he has NO contact with his own Father's family at all - just his totally insane Mother and her totally dysfunctional family - and why the F**k does anyone's skin colour come into it at all? 

Surely the whole point of being non racist is that distinctions aren't made :shrug: It's not an issue with us or with the people (of all ethnicities) that Kaylum mixes with, so why is it an issue with this waste of air?

Grrrrr ... rant over and discuss :haha:


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## feeble

I would send back a very formal email, stating that kaylum is raised as a multi-coloured rainbow baby :)

Raising your child does not start at a year! Or even birth! There is a whole other bit before that where they are in need of support too! 

Can you imagine if it had been said the other way round? 'i will not have my son raised as a mixed race baby' :o 

Save it for the courts, if it comes to that. Racism is pretty frowned on these days x


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## TattiesMum

Tattie saved the messages in screen shots (just in case they are needed for any future court case), deleted them, blocked the sender's account (and had a good clear out of her FB 'friends') and resisted the urge to comment at all .....

That way he hasn't had the satisfaction of getting a rise out of her and there is no danger of a war of words that could potentially backfire :thumbup:

You are totally right of course ... it's completely unacceptable to think of raising any child in a way that relates to their skin colour :wacko: (how *do* you raise a child to be 'white' anyway????)


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## AbbynChloe

He sounds like an absolute idiot. does he not realise with him being mixed race himself all he is serving to do is insult his mum/dad?? 

what a loser!

as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.

grrr what an idiot!:dohh:


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## Bumpi

am at a loss for words but didnt want to read and run .. i would tell him to toss off .. you said in your original post: ''He is being brought up to feel loved and valued as a person who can achieve whatever he wants from life'' and thats all a child needs xxx


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## FlowerFairy

What an Idiot. I imagine he'll appear and disappear many many times to cause troulble. :hugs:

I dont know how you raise a white baby??? Surely ethnicity is less about colour and more about culture. If he has some Caribbean culture he wants to share with Kaylum then he should be making a huge effort to get his head sorted and get clean so he can give the baby knowledge about his background. 
Glad Tattie had the sense to copy the messages and delete the sender. If he ever goes through with court all these things are going to go against him!1


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## Rhio92

Tosser.


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## Rhio92

(Not you :dohh: The useless excuse of a father) :haha:


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## BintUmmi

AbbynChloe said:


> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.

^ this!


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## TattiesMum

Thank you all :hugs: - I didn't know if I was over-reacting :dohh: It just made me so mad :growlmad:

Isn't it this sort of attitude that perpetuates racism? :nope: Kaylum is just Kaylum ... adorable, funny, full of beans and oblivious to skin tones or what colour he is 'supposed to be' 

Abbey - your daughter is gorgeous :cloud9:


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## AbbynChloe

TattiesMum said:


> Thank you all :hugs: - I didn't know if I was over-reacting :dohh: It just made me so mad :growlmad:
> 
> Isn't it this sort of attitude that perpetuates racism? :nope: Kaylum is just Kaylum ... adorable, funny, full of beans and oblivious to skin tones or what colour he is 'supposed to be'
> 
> Abbey - your daughter is gorgeous :cloud9:

Aww tatties mum, thank you - I do think she is rather delicious!!!:blush:


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## TattiesMum

She's positively edible! How old is she?


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## AbbynChloe

TattiesMum said:


> She's positively edible! How old is she?

She was three in October  i'm getting a little better and will put trackers up and everything!! lol:flower:


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## WantingABubba

:dohh: he sounds like an idiot.

Furthermore, your Grandson is 75% white, and only 25% black. 

Why does he care?!

I'm TTC with my boyfriend, who's white, and I'm mixed. My baby will be mixed, technically, but I won't force them into either box, as I hate it myself.

Both you and your daughter sound like smart, well-adjusted people, and she done the right thing.

:hugs:

(Sorry, this post was a bit jumbled - you get the gist, right? :haha:)


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## whoknowsx

BintUmmi said:


> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...

While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue. 

I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.


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## WantingABubba

whoknowsx said:


> BintUmmi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...
> 
> While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue.
> 
> I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.Click to expand...

The child is not black, he is mixed.

And a baby who is 25% black, and 75% white is more likely to look white or mixed than 'black'.

Yes, it's important he knows his background but it doesn't mean he should be told 'you're black and life is going to be difficult for you'.

Lastly, racism works all ways.


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## AbbynChloe

whoknowsx said:


> BintUmmi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...
> 
> While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue.
> 
> I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.Click to expand...


The problem with this "racist white-hierarchy of a world" i people like you who chose to believe in it.

Yes life is difficult and yes the world not colour blind, but does it benefit anyone to raise children to immediately point out they are different, they have slightly darker skin or whatever.

What really really pisses me off is what makes you think that the LO will not know anything of his black culture?? if his father plays his part then surly the child will have a wholesome knowledge of where he/she come/s from??

I'm black and raise my daughter alsmost single handedly in England - so are you telling me she is a a dis advantage, or advantage??


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## BintUmmi

whoknowsx said:


> BintUmmi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...
> 
> While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue.
> 
> I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.Click to expand...

It depends where you live. 

I am mixed race (half black, half white) and I've never been disadvantaged for it. I grew up in London, and a very mixed part, so maybe that's why. 

There is nothing wrong with knowing your history, where your ancestors come from as that is part of who you are but it doesn't define you because you are not them and your experiences are not going to be the same. 

When people make these kinds of statements (not yours, the thread title) their concern is not so much education about history, being black it's more about fulfilling a stereotype of what it means to be either black or white. Which is nonsense, the child is not more black or white that he needs to be told "you're black" or "you're white". In my opinion race doesn't hold such importance that you need to constantly remind your child of their race, and teach them that it makes them different from everyone else when there is so much more people share in common than where their parents or ancestors come from.


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## WantingABubba

BintUmmi said:


> whoknowsx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BintUmmi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...
> 
> While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue.
> 
> I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.Click to expand...
> 
> It depends where you live.
> 
> I am mixed race (half black, half white) and I've never been disadvantaged for it. I grew up in London, and a very mixed part, so maybe that's why.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with knowing your history, where your ancestors come from as that is part of who you are but it doesn't define you because you are not them and your experiences are not going to be the same.
> 
> When people make these kinds of statements (not yours, the thread title) their concern is not so much education about history, being black it's more about fulfilling a stereotype of what it means to be either black or white. Which is nonsense, the child is not more black or white that he needs to be told "you're black" or "you're white". In my opinion race doesn't hold such importance that you need to constantly remind your child of their race, and teach them that it makes them different from everyone else when there is so much more people share in common than where their parents or ancestors come from.Click to expand...

Totally agree :thumbup:

I am also mixed, (black Mum, white Dad), and I, unfortunately, HAVE run into lots of 'racial issues' in my life.

But let me say something - the racial issues and identity problems I've had have been *more* from people's constant trying to reinforce stereotypes and tell me who I am, and how society sees me then living in a 'white hierarchical world'.

My Mum is very 'pro-black' and has a huge chip on her shoulder. She can be so anti-white sometimes, or quick to look for racism. And let me tell you - it hurts.

I am sick of being told I am going to struggle because my skin is brown. I am sick of being told that white people see me as black. I'm sick of people going on about race all the damned time!

And I am sick of people thinking racism only affects minorities!


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## whoknowsx

AbbynChloe said:


> whoknowsx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BintUmmi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...
> 
> While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue.
> 
> I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem with this "racist white-hierarchy of a world" i people like you who chose to believe in it.
> 
> Yes life is difficult and yes the world not colour blind, but does it benefit anyone to raise children to immediately point out they are different, they have slightly darker skin or whatever.
> 
> What really really pisses me off is what makes you think that the LO will not know anything of his black culture?? if his father plays his part then surly the child will have a wholesome knowledge of where he/she come/s from??
> 
> I'm black and raise my daughter alsmost single handedly in England - so are you telling me she is a a dis advantage, or advantage??Click to expand...

Take a breather -- this is not a personal attack on you.

I don't know completely how things run in England but in my experience in the US racism is a much larger obstacle. I can only speak from that perspective. I did NOT advocate immediately pointing out that they are different or say that they will know nothing of black culture. I was advocating that the LO is taught all sides. Thats all. 

Your argument is a straw-man argument so I care not address the rest of it. But if you have questions about my points as oppose to just being emotional and up in arms, thus purposefully mis-reading what I said then I would be more than happy to address them. :coffee:


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## whoknowsx

BintUmmi said:


> whoknowsx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BintUmmi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbbynChloe said:
> 
> 
> as a mum of a beautiful mixed race daughter, I bring her up to be herself, she is not aware of her skin tone, and I will do my best to make sure it never becomes an issue for her.
> 
> ^ this!Click to expand...
> 
> While this is all fine and dandy I cant help but feel that we are living in a fake utopian of a world. Skin tone limits alot in society and pretending like it doesn't will only make her skin tone that much MORE of an issue.
> 
> I think that this man definitely came at OP with the wrong attitude and arrogance but his desire that the child also knows that he is black, and perhaps is abreast with the culture and history of what that means is not wrong. It's not racism for a child to be raised to know both cultures. As long as his skin has a bit more color than his family he will be deemed different and other. So while loving him is good, it's simply not enough in this racist white-hierarchy of a world.Click to expand...
> 
> It depends where you live.
> 
> I am mixed race (half black, half white) and I've never been disadvantaged for it. I grew up in London, and a very mixed part, so maybe that's why.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with knowing your history, where your ancestors come from as that is part of who you are but it doesn't define you because you are not them and your experiences are not going to be the same.
> 
> When people make these kinds of statements (not yours, the thread title) their concern is not so much education about history, being black it's more about fulfilling a stereotype of what it means to be either black or white. Which is nonsense, the child is not more black or white that he needs to be told "you're black" or "you're white". In my opinion race doesn't hold such importance that you need to constantly remind your child of their race, and teach them that it makes them different from everyone else when there is so much more people share in common than where their parents or ancestors come from.Click to expand...

I totally agree with everything you said. My point was just that the father wanted the child to know the other side of his history (and by history I do not mean stereotypes). I was not saying this should define who the child is at all but I didn't think it was an unfair request.


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## TattiesMum

whoknowsx said:


> I totally agree with everything you said. My point was just that the father wanted the child to know the other side of his history (and by history I do not mean stereotypes). I was not saying this should define who the child is at all but I didn't think it was an unfair request.

I get what you are saying ... that any child who's parents come from different cultural backgrounds should be given the chance (if possible) to be exposed to both cultures ... which could apply just as much to a child with, say, one English parent and one Italian.

In this case it's kind of irrelevant - there IS no comforting Barbadian GreatGrandma or extended family waiting to fill him with lore and family history :shrug: There is only FOB's white mother, her extended family and his mixed race siblings, who have no contact with their fathers either.

FOB's idea of being 'black' owes more to modern urban stereotypes than it does racial heritage in it's true sense :nope: and as Kaylum himself merely looks slightly tanned ... he's no darker than I am (I'm part Italian), and has completely straight hair.... I doubt that racism is going to play a big part in his life (unless someone like his FOB introduces it :growlmad: ) .... particularly in the town where we live as mixed relationships (and thus mixed race children) are perfectly normal and everyday :thumbup:


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## WantingABubba

TattiesMum said:


> whoknowsx said:
> 
> 
> I totally agree with everything you said. My point was just that the father wanted the child to know the other side of his history (and by history I do not mean stereotypes). I was not saying this should define who the child is at all but I didn't think it was an unfair request.
> 
> I get what you are saying ... that any child who's parents come from different cultural backgrounds should be given the chance (if possible) to be exposed to both cultures ... which could apply just as much to a child with, say, one English parent and one Italian.
> 
> In this case it's kind of irrelevant - there IS no comforting Barbadian GreatGrandma or extended family waiting to fill him with lore and family history :shrug: There is only FOB's white mother, her extended family and his mixed race siblings, who have no contact with their fathers either.
> 
> FOB's idea of being 'black' owes more to modern urban stereotypes than it does racial heritage in it's true sense :nope: and as Kaylum himself merely looks slightly tanned ... he's no darker than I am (I'm part Italian), and has completely straight hair.... I doubt that racism is going to play a big part in his life (unless someone like his FOB introduces it :growlmad: ) .... particularly in the town where we live as mixed relationships (and thus mixed race children) are perfectly normal and everyday :thumbup:Click to expand...

He sounds gorgeous! I, myself, am curious as to what my bubba's gonna look like. I'm hoping for tanned skin, curly blondish/brown hair and blue/green/hazel eyes, but I probably won't get that :haha:

They may even look completely white! You never know what you're gonna get with biracial children, let alone with multiracial/second gen mixed children.

I love genes :cloud9:


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## TattiesMum

He is gorgeous :cloud9::cloud9:

You're right though - genes are a funny thing ... I have a friend who's 2 children are also 1/4 Barbadian and who are both white to the point of looking anaemic :shrug: and another who's husband is Sri Lankan and who's 2 daughters are identical apart from skin and hair tone ... one is blonde and burns in the tiniest bit of sun and the other is dark skinned with black hair.


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## WantingABubba

TattiesMum said:


> He is gorgeous :cloud9::cloud9:
> 
> You're right though - genes are a funny thing ... I have a friend who's 2 children are also 1/4 Barbadian and who are both white to the point of looking anaemic :shrug: and another who's husband is Sri Lankan and who's 2 daughters are identical apart from skin and hair tone ... one is blonde and burns in the tiniest bit of sun and the other is dark skinned with black hair.

Sounds all so exciting and interesting :happydance:


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