# Dealing with violence



## ellismum

Ellis has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and they also think he has ASD although this is ongoing. His tantrums have evolved into him screaming, answering back and physical violence. He hits, throws objects, kicks, bites and spits. No reasoning, ignoring, discipline is working. If we confiscate toys or take a great away (like last week when he ran off whilst having a picnic after we warned him that if he did we wouldn't go in the play area) he doesn't get it. Time out's useless although he would really benefit with cooling down and 3 strikes is met with backchat and violence.

He is awful to live with, it feels like everything is a battle and I did not miss him one bit whilst he stayed with the out laws for a few days. 

Can anyone offer some ideas, tips, anything to help us and we are really reaching the end of our tether and our relationship is becoming strained too :cry:


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## mummy2o

Any idea what is causing the tantrums? Maybe dealing what is causing them and eliminating or reducing them would be a start?

As for discipline I don't really have much to help. My son has generally been a good boy and hates being called a naughty boy and if he hears this he normally never does the naughty thing again.

As for the running off, I got a wrist rein as it got to a point my son was to big for normal ones and this was a compromise. After telling him only once not to run off then he went on the rein so he couldn't. He soon learnt boundaries. But at the picnic had he finished eating? Was he bored? Did something else catch his attention? Also does he understand the language your using? Use basic language probably for a child younger than his age if he doesn't get it.


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## teal

Sending you lots of hugs :hugs: I don't have any real advice but my son has really awful tantrums that kick off over the tiniest thing. I try to calm him down before it escalates or distract him but doesn't always help. Screaming, hitting, throwing things, banging his head on the floor. I'm really starting to worry that it's not normal tantrums xx


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## ellismum

mummy2o said:


> Any idea what is causing the tantrums? Maybe dealing what is causing them and eliminating or reducing them would be a start?
> 
> As for discipline I don't really have much to help. My son has generally been a good boy and hates being called a naughty boy and if he hears this he normally never does the naughty thing again.
> 
> As for the running off, I got a wrist rein as it got to a point my son was to big for normal ones and this was a compromise. After telling him only once not to run off then he went on the rein so he couldn't. He soon learnt boundaries. But at the picnic had he finished eating? Was he bored? Did something else catch his attention? Also does he understand the language your using? Use basic language probably for a child younger than his age if he doesn't get it.

Thanks for replying. I think that if he were "normal" then the point about nipping it at the cause would work however this happens over anything like taking shoes off before going in the living room, not helping himself to ice creams in the freezer, repeated being told to not go near the over or hob when its on but he does. He gets warnings that something's going to happen, we use First and Then etc. He is an only child and always will be and one of us is at home as we work opposite hours so he's getting plant of attention. He's very impulsive and we have to repeat stuff a lot but he doesn't listen. He understands but its like his brain scrambles it up.

We were at the picnic with my mummy Friends and we were packing everything up whilst try were playing. We had all explained that we had to take the stuff back to the car first and then we'd be going to the play area and gave them a ball to play with. Next thing he's gone out of sight and I found him on top of the climbing frame. He wouldn't come down and I really had to shout at him to come down repeatedly. We don't go out often, luckily my friends have known him since week 1 and are great support but we're reluctant to take him anywhere. He ended up in the car having a screaming, kicking and spiting fit yesterday because he wouldn't hold my hand whilst we were out so came home. Everything's so stressful.


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## ellismum

teal said:


> Sending you lots of hugs :hugs: I don't have any real advice but my son has really awful tantrums that kick off over the tiniest thing. I try to calm him down before it escalates or distract him but doesn't always help. Screaming, hitting, throwing things, banging his head on the floor. I'm really starting to worry that it's not normal tantrums xx

:hugs: its horrible isn't it. when he was younger it wasn't so bad and diatraction worked but they've escalated majorly as he's grown older and harder to control, especially as we get hurt.


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## sequeena

I wish I had advice. Thomas has recently started acting like this (he has GDD with possible autism markers). Tantrums are practically the same as yours, biting scratching screaming, deliberately harming himself. I think I'm going grey from the stress. It's just not normal and I don't know what to do. I try to leave him to it but depending on how bad it gets he'll start slamming his head against the wall/floor and I can't let him do that.

I'm currently waiting for a specialist HV who I hope can help. I know a lot of his violence is because he's frustrated from not being able to communicate with me so I hope he has a leap in his speech development soon.


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## mummy2o

The advice was giving was on children with autism as I went on a course when my son was diagnosed. You have given me some more ideas how to help you since you have explained more.

As for the shoes visual steps of what to do as soon as he gets in the house. On the wall or something. So he can see as well as just being told what order needs to be done. He just probably wants to play, I know if we hadn't programmed it into O's head he needed to take his shoes off he'd turn his computer on (his special interest) That really helped although took some getting use to and rewarding him afterwards. Food worked the best for O so some sweets or a biscuit.

My son use to help himself all the time, so we ended up putting a lock on the kitchen door (would sort out the hob too) as he could climb over baby gates from 18 months. He would then have to ask. At this time he was using PECS to ask for stuff but now just asks. So maybe you could get a picture of an ice cream to get him to ask you for it when he wants it. Visual things are easier for the brain to process.

You say he appears to understand but his brain jumbles it up. I would suggest using timetables throughout the day so he has the visual aid helping him also and taking the task off once completed and put it in a bag or makeshift postbox.

As for the picnic (not judging you here in any shape or form so sorry if I come across as rude) could you have had one person watching the children keeping them all in check, whilst everyone else cleared up. I can imagine the sheer panic that you went through when you couldn't find him as O has run off a couple of times when I had my back turned. That way he always had someone keeping an eye on him. He doesn't understand the risks of going off with strangers or people who might abduct him.

I do remember another mum on the course dedicated a throwing corner in her house as one of her boys just needed to let out steam. She made sure it was secure and he could be seen (she has 1 normal son and 2 with server autism) and had lots of pillow and cuddly toys he could throw. She would always move him there when he started having a tantrum until one day he learn that was the area. To be fair she is super mum and does tons of weird and wonderful things for her boys, which I just can't seem to do and I only have O!


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## pippi_89

I work with young children with behavioural difficulties, I know it's not quite the same as dealing with it in your own home but we have found having a 'cool down' corner is very beneficial with children displaying 'out of control' tempers. We have beanbags and a tray of 'stress balls' and a notepad for the children to scribble on or draw what is upsetting them (similar to suggestion in pp). As an extreme measure we opperate a 'one strike' policy with this. As soon as the child shows negative behaviour they are placed in 'cool down' until they are calm. No speaking or explainations (after initially introducing the area to them of course) just straight in, returning to ask if they are calm after a few minutes (usually 5 with ours as they are 5+). If they display any anger or aggression they are left for a futher 2 minutes etc.(this can go on for a while the first few times, we had to stick with it!) After they are completely calm we then explain why they were placed there, discuss why they behaved in that manner and allow them to explain their drawings/scribbles. It can help them to express their emotions in a constructive way and it is very enlightening to hear their explainations/point of view. You can often find a root cause or emotional pattern very quickly. We have found this very effective, even with the most extreme situations.


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## The907

Hi there,

My son doesn't have autism, but I have been a behavior therapist for a few years (plus my son has aggressive behaviors resulting from a brain injury). 

I know how stressed you must be and I can empathize. Here are a few things that I learned with my son and from my training/working one on one with children diagnosed with autism. Please forgive me if you already know this.

Behavior always has a function. Typically functions are either attention seeking, self stimulation, access to desired items or activities, or escape from aversive stimuli. Once one determines the function of a behavior an effective intervention for that behavior can be developed. 

Try classifying your child's behavior first (and take your time as I know you're overwhelmed by the behavior in itself. I wouldn't want you to become overwhelmed by trying to find the function of that behavior.) Make a list of each behavior he demonstrates, ie: tantrum, aggression, non-compliance, repetitive behaviors. Then write out the definition of for each behavior ie: aggression = hitting with open/closed fists, biting, throwing objects in the direction of others, slapping, pinching, screaming into others ears/faces, etc. Once you've done that for your kiddo, think about the times he engages in these behaviors and what happened directly before the behavior, ie: did you say it was time to turn off the T.V.?, ask him to come to you?, go somewhere he hates like big stores?, ask him to wait for your attention or for an item? You can then determine what the function is; does he want access, escape, attention, or self stimulation. Take it one behavior at a time.

To help manage behaviors, positive reinforcement is necessary. I won't lie and say that it's easy and takes no time at all. It's hard at first but it pays off. Find out what his highest preferred item or activity is, this is called a 'reinforcer' and kids with autism usually have about 1-2 high interest items or activities, even food. 

When you know you have to do something important with him or go somewhere that's usually stressful, deprive him of that reinforcer for awhile beforehand then give it to him during that important time only. You can create token charts where he earns a token doing super simple tasks, like simply acknowledging you've called his name. Once he gets a token, reward him with his reinforcer. As time goes on, less reinforcement will be needed. Ask a behavior analyst for tips on managing behavior, if there is any in your area. 

There is so much more that goes into this - the model I have referred to above is called Applied Behavior Analysis or ABA, and it's effective when used effectively.

I truly hope this helps! If I haven't and have further stressed you out, please forgive me.


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## ellismum

Thanks ladies, you've certainly given me some new ideas to try! I'm certainly going to implement a cool down corner, as explained, time out's ineffective as it currently is but hopefully giving him something to help distract him will help (nothing heavy thou, they'll hurt when thrown at me!!!) I'll keep you all updated xxx


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## ellismum

The907 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> My son doesn't have autism, but I have been a behavior therapist for a few years (plus my son has aggressive behaviors resulting from a brain injury).
> 
> I know how stressed you must be and I can empathize. Here are a few things that I learned with my son and from my training/working one on one with children diagnosed with autism. Please forgive me if you already know this.
> 
> Behavior always has a function. Typically functions are either attention seeking, self stimulation, access to desired items or activities, or escape from aversive stimuli. Once one determines the function of a behavior an effective intervention for that behavior can be developed.
> 
> Try classifying your child's behavior first (and take your time as I know you're overwhelmed by the behavior in itself. I wouldn't want you to become overwhelmed by trying to find the function of that behavior.) Make a list of each behavior he demonstrates, ie: tantrum, aggression, non-compliance, repetitive behaviors. Then write out the definition of for each behavior ie: aggression = hitting with open/closed fists, biting, throwing objects in the direction of others, slapping, pinching, screaming into others ears/faces, etc. Once you've done that for your kiddo, think about the times he engages in these behaviors and what happened directly before the behavior, ie: did you say it was time to turn off the T.V.?, ask him to come to you?, go somewhere he hates like big stores?, ask him to wait for your attention or for an item? You can then determine what the function is; does he want access, escape, attention, or self stimulation. Take it one behavior at a time.
> 
> To help manage behaviors, positive reinforcement is necessary. I won't lie and say that it's easy and takes no time at all. It's hard at first but it pays off. Find out what his highest preferred item or activity is, this is called a 'reinforcer' and kids with autism usually have about 1-2 high interest items or activities, even food.
> 
> When you know you have to do something important with him or go somewhere that's usually stressful, deprive him of that reinforcer for awhile beforehand then give it to him during that important time only. You can create token charts where he earns a token doing super simple tasks, like simply acknowledging you've called his name. Once he gets a token, reward him with his reinforcer. As time goes on, less reinforcement will be needed. Ask a behavior analyst for tips on managing behavior, if there is any in your area.
> 
> There is so much more that goes into this - the model I have referred to above is called Applied Behavior Analysis or ABA, and it's effective when used effectively.
> 
> I truly hope this helps! If I haven't and have further stressed you out, please forgive me.

Not stressed me out at all, if anything this has been great, I'm off to look further into ANA. Thank you xxx


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## pippi_89

^Great technique! I would watch using food as your 'reinforcer' though. It has been known to create an unhealthy relationship with that food item and can backfire.


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## ellismum

pippi_89 said:


> ^Great technique! I would watch using food as your 'reinforcer' though. It has been known to create an unhealthy relationship with that food item and can backfire.

Definitely wont be, he's already a fussy monster with food and find ourselves very limited in what to offer him.


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## The907

ellismum said:


> The907 said:
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> My son doesn't have autism, but I have been a behavior therapist for a few years (plus my son has aggressive behaviors resulting from a brain injury).
> 
> I know how stressed you must be and I can empathize. Here are a few things that I learned with my son and from my training/working one on one with children diagnosed with autism. Please forgive me if you already know this.
> 
> Behavior always has a function. Typically functions are either attention seeking, self stimulation, access to desired items or activities, or escape from aversive stimuli. Once one determines the function of a behavior an effective intervention for that behavior can be developed.
> 
> Try classifying your child's behavior first (and take your time as I know you're overwhelmed by the behavior in itself. I wouldn't want you to become overwhelmed by trying to find the function of that behavior.) Make a list of each behavior he demonstrates, ie: tantrum, aggression, non-compliance, repetitive behaviors. Then write out the definition of for each behavior ie: aggression = hitting with open/closed fists, biting, throwing objects in the direction of others, slapping, pinching, screaming into others ears/faces, etc. Once you've done that for your kiddo, think about the times he engages in these behaviors and what happened directly before the behavior, ie: did you say it was time to turn off the T.V.?, ask him to come to you?, go somewhere he hates like big stores?, ask him to wait for your attention or for an item? You can then determine what the function is; does he want access, escape, attention, or self stimulation. Take it one behavior at a time.
> 
> To help manage behaviors, positive reinforcement is necessary. I won't lie and say that it's easy and takes no time at all. It's hard at first but it pays off. Find out what his highest preferred item or activity is, this is called a 'reinforcer' and kids with autism usually have about 1-2 high interest items or activities, even food.
> 
> When you know you have to do something important with him or go somewhere that's usually stressful, deprive him of that reinforcer for awhile beforehand then give it to him during that important time only. You can create token charts where he earns a token doing super simple tasks, like simply acknowledging you've called his name. Once he gets a token, reward him with his reinforcer. As time goes on, less reinforcement will be needed. Ask a behavior analyst for tips on managing behavior, if there is any in your area.
> 
> There is so much more that goes into this - the model I have referred to above is called Applied Behavior Analysis or ABA, and it's effective when used effectively.
> 
> I truly hope this helps! If I haven't and have further stressed you out, please forgive me.
> 
> Not stressed me out at all, if anything this has been great, I'm off to look further into ANA. Thank you xxxClick to expand...

Glad it didn't stress you out more. I sincerely hope you find some relief. I know how discouraging, exhausting, and heartbreaking situations like these can be. Stay strong. I admire your honesty about your situation and your intelligence in reaching out for help. 

I usually take time each day to take delight in something small. It's usually something very simple like my pretty poppy cup I have my morning tea in, or the giant outdoor bulbs that I strung around in my kitchen. That way, when the hard stuff starts I know where to look to calm down. And I really take delight in those moments when my son is calm, smiling, and happy. I take a lot of pictures to remind me that there is hope and that he is innocent in all of this.
Hope things are getting better. xx


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## AngelofTroy

You've had some brilliant advice here! I work with


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## AngelofTroy

You've had some brilliant advice here! Just wanted to give you a virtual hug. :hugs: I work with children with autism and second the ABA approach, it's worked really well in my experience, and picture timetables work really well too. Do you see a speech and language therapist at all? If so they may be able to advise on symbol systems you can use with your son to reinforce what's expected of him at different times. Even people with autism who have a good level of language will often struggle to process language when they are stressed. Clear visual clues are easier to process and reinforce the language. They also give them an opportunity to be independent. For example if your son is expected to put his shoes and coat on before going to the park, and he's given a strip of velcro symbols with "Shoes, Coat, Park" to prompt him, he can see that the park is coming up on the list and hopefully avoids a battle over the routine of getting ready. 

I hope that made some sense? I'm typing quickly on my phone as I can hear LO is waking up!


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## angelae36

I generally know why my daughter is behaving the way she is and mostly head off a tantrum.
But what we do have problems with is when she is hitting, biting, kicking because she can't do something like go outside, go in the car or when she has to do something like come inside at school and sit on the carpet or return home from the playground.

How do I deal with the meltdown that inevitably happens in these situations?
I give her a 5 minute countdown to warn her when something has to happen but still the tantrums happen.
(sorry to hijack the thread xxx)


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## sparkle_1979

Ruby used to have bad tantrums we find th only thing that works is reward.

Is she knows that is I get to three whn counting there's no late night then this usually is enough to stop her


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## Jencocoa

Hugs and good luck. 

Have you tried removing dyes, MSG, and other chemicals from his diet as well as reducing sugar? Some parents have noted a remarkable difference from just those things, which are safe and easy to try. There is a book by Ken Bock called Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies: The Groundbreaking Program for the 4-A Disorders. You could just read the ADHD section. I personally know many kids that have been helped, but every child is different of course.


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## The907

angelae36 said:


> I generally know why my daughter is behaving the way she is and mostly head off a tantrum.
> But what we do have problems with is when she is hitting, biting, kicking because she can't do something like go outside, go in the car or when she has to do something like come inside at school and sit on the carpet or return home from the playground.
> 
> How do I deal with the meltdown that inevitably happens in these situations?
> I give her a 5 minute countdown to warn her when something has to happen but still the tantrums happen.
> (sorry to hijack the thread xxx)

So it sounds like her behavior functions are both access and escape. She wants to access the outside, your car, the playground, etc. The escape might be escaping the work she would have to do in the classroom verses the fun she's having outside, you know?

Transitions warnings, which is what you're trying to do by giving count downs, are helpful to avoid escalating into aggressive behavior and/or tantrums. But realistically, it takes time for a child, especially one on the ASD spectrum, to learn to transition without problems. The best way to do this is to reinforce them for appropriate behavior. So each time your daughter does come to you when called out to at the playground or at school, she should be reinforced with a highly preferred. She'll learn that it's not so bad to leave the playground or go back into the classroom. Sometimes easing into an activity that your kiddo likes after coming in from being outside is a good way to lessen the chances of a meltdown. Visual aides are very helpful for kids with ASD. Also, limit the amount of talking you do during times of transitions, sometimes that alone escalates a child.

In the middle of a melt down, the best way to NOT reinforce her biting, hitting, kicking, is to move her somewhere safe and ignore it. If she keeps coming at you, move her back to the safe place and walk away. The key, don't talk to her during the tantrum or aggression! It's rough, I know. I have been bitten, kicked, punched, had objects thrown at me, and even had a kiddo put both feet on my shoulders and pull my hair with both hands, using his feet and my body as leverage. I simply disentangled him from my hair and walked away. When your kiddo sees you're not going to engage and she's not getting what she wants, she will eventually stop. Once she stops, leave her be for awhile to avoid re-escalation. Then process with her.

I don't know how high functioning your daughter is and if she can be reasoned with, but when a kiddo is escalated and is being physically aggressive they are beyond reason at that point and it won't do any good to try to talk it out, ya know. That has to happen when you both are calm.

I really hope this information has helped. The best thing is to consult with a Certified Behavior Analyst. Someone with those credentials could likely help you develop a program that will address your daughters needs and teach her the skills she needs to be successful.


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## pippi_89

The907 said:


> The key, don't talk to her during the tantrum or aggression! It's rough, I know. I have been bitten, kicked, punched, had objects thrown at me, and even had a kiddo put both feet on my shoulders and pull my hair with both hands, using his feet and my body as leverage. I simply disentangled him from my hair and walked away. When your kiddo sees you're not going to engage and she's not getting what she wants, she will eventually stop. Once she stops, leave her be for awhile to avoid re-escalation. Then process with her.

It is so tough, even as a professional! Add to that the emotion of it being your own child and I can only imagine! I once had a child grab the bottom of my trousers and kick off against my leg, ripping the seams up to my knees! That was a fun day I can tell you!

However heartbreaking it is, I agree, it is the easiest way for them to learn acceptable behaviour! :hugs:


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## Ninagrrl

I didn't read everyone's replies so I'm sorry if this was mentioned. Have you thought of getting a behavioral service dog? I know that they can be trained to prevent self harming and other violent behaviors and will go with the child and keep them out of harms way if they run off (some can be trained to even restrain the child if it is absolutely necessary). I looked into it for my son but the self harming behavior never fully developed so I had no need to continue looking into it. It doesn't solve the underlying problem but maybe it would offer you some peace of mind that the dog will be trained to keep a watchful eye on your child and can even alert you by barking if your son is doing something potentially dangerous.


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