# Illegal to have car seat in front seat?



## Abz1982

It is if you have airbags yes? And its not if you don't yes? 

Just wanted to make sure I understood it ok as someone I know has said that even if I don't have airbags I cant put LO in front seat and the police will stop me.

But what if you have a van???

I don't always have the back seats actually in my car - as for moving horse feed etc I turn car into a van basically.

Plus, I have a 3 door....now god forbid I should ever have an accident, surely it would be better for her in the front as they would be able to get to her more quickly?


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## Tegans Mama

Do you have airbags? If you do, put her in the back as the damage that can be caused by an airbag squishing a rear facing carseat is unimaginable. If you don't, she is fine in the front.


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## Sophie1205

If you have no airbags then yes it is fine to put her in the front. In my Mum's car he goes in the front because she has no airbags and his seat doesnt fit very well in the back x


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## Charlotte-j

you can get the airbags deactivated if need be.


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## Lu28

Yep, if there's airbags, the rear facing seat needs to be in the back. Statistically, your likliehood of being seriously hurt is greater if you're in the front rather than the back seat.


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## Jody R

Joseph is in the back in my car but the front in DH's. My car doesn't have rear airbags but DH's has them everywhere. He has the option to turn off the front passenger airbags so that's where we put Joseph's seat and we have those airbags off. 

It's a bit weird because his car has the Isofix system for the back seat and yet we can't install the seat there because of the airbags.


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## Abz1982

I have no airbags at all, its a P reg Peugeot 106. Someone told us to get another car - pah! Only of hey want to pay for it! 

I would feel safer with her in the front as my back seats can come out, and as I have had them out a lot for moving things they come out easily - mayb too easily now, so if something was to happen I would worry that they would come out and thus move the baby seat.


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## ryder

The back seat is MUCH safer for the baby... I think your baby's life is wroth more then the trouble of putting the seats back in. 

The only time I know of people putting a car seat in the sfront is in a truck, but it still doesnt make it safe. When given the option you should always go for the back seat. 

I work in a hospital and a year a half ago we had a family be brought in to the ER who's baby was in a carseat in the front (actually she was 5) and the carseat ended up going through the front window... they didnt have the harness done up properly and she died.


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## FEDup1981

The back is much safer, but if u need to put LO in the front, then u can deactivate the airbags. Usually when u open the passenger side door theres a lil sign with a slot for ur key to turn the passenger side off, its in the hinge of the door. But never put her in the front with air bags. xxxx


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## Tsia

I have Mylo in the front of my peugeot 307.. with airbag deactivated via a dial I can turn off with the ignition key. 
p reg isnt that old.. you sure u dont have airbags you can turn off?


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## tasha41

Elyse comes in the front of the truck for short trips (from her dad's to my house basically) - no airbags. I looooove being able to have her in the front with me, but it's not ideal. Without the airbags it is safer though.


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## polo_princess

Its legal to have them in the front if the airbags are deactivated/switched off.


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## Sophie1205

Why PP? x


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## polo_princess

Why is it legal?


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## Sophie1205

Yeah. I thought they could if they were deactivated x


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## polo_princess

Thats what i said :lol:

Did you read it wrong?


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## Sophie1205

Ahhh hahha!! I see! I though it said ILLEGAL lol Sorrrryyyy. I'm so tired tonight. xx


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## Sophie1205

LOL and you said legal the second time too!! Go to bed sophie :(


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## polo_princess

Durr :dohh: :lol:


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## Rah

We got the airbag deactiveated in the front (well the switch fitted so we can activate/deactivate when we want) so when im driving on my own i can see her and check shes ok i dont want something to happen and me not notice when shes in the forward facing seats she will be in the back though


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## ryder

Sorry... I dont understna dwhy people would want to do something so unsafe. It totally baffles me. It doesnt seem like people are grasping the severity of what could happen if you were in an accident. 

If your worried about being able to see your baby you can buy mirrors etc. 

However, its their baby, not mine. Its really sad seeing babies/children down in the morgue because parents are dumbasses though.


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## Abz1982

ryder said:


> Sorry... I dont understna dwhy people would want to do something so unsafe. It totally baffles me. It doesnt seem like people are grasping the severity of what could happen if you were in an accident.
> 
> If your worried about being able to see your baby you can buy mirrors etc.
> 
> However, its their baby, not mine. Its really sad seeing babies/children down in the morgue because parents are dumbasses though.

I see your point, but like I said, My back seats - due to excessive wear - don't seem to stay still and so in the event of an accident are more likely to come or move than the front one. Its the fitting on the actual car - not the seat. 

She will have to go in the front anyways when I have bales and bags of feed in the back. Nothing I can do about that. 

I am also having to buy a new car seat as for some reason the seatbelts in the back and front of my car are not long enough to go round the baby seat - its a m&p Pilko with the base - not isofix.


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## mommyof3co

Actually you should NOT use the mirrors :) Some carseat techs will say the very soft ones, that have nothing hard at all MIGHT be ok, but they say if you feel safe throwing it at your babies face as hard as you can then imagine that with 100s lbs more force then use it...but they don't recommend it lol. But as far as riding in the front seat, the back seat is 40% safer than riding up front with an airbag. But without an airbag it's actually ok, if a backseat is available I would do that, in the middle just to be furthest away from point of impact if you were to be in a wreck. But here is an article talking about rear facing in a front seat granted it's comparing either RF in the front or FF so a little different but it has some good info just the same

https://www.carseat.se/rearfacing/position-in-vehicle/front-seat-safety/


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## tasha41

^ I also heard at the car seat clinic I went to (basically you go to the police station and they install your car seat, tell you how to use the harness, etc) that you should not use those mirrors. They said to me you shouldn't use any car seat toys at all, in a high speed accident they can cause injuries. It's nuts, you don't think about dangly plush toys with jingle bells in them etc as being dangerous but they are!


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## mommyof3co

Yep and you should never have any toys or anything in the floor board, they become airborne in an accident :)


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## nightkd

Abz1982 said:


> It is if you have airbags yes? And its not if you don't yes?
> 
> Just wanted to make sure I understood it ok as someone I know has said that even if I don't have airbags I cant put LO in front seat and the police will stop me.
> 
> But what if you have a van???
> 
> I don't always have the back seats actually in my car - as for moving horse feed etc I turn car into a van basically.
> 
> Plus, I have a 3 door....now god forbid I should ever have an accident, surely it would be better for her in the front as they would be able to get to her more quickly?

It's not illegal if the airbag is turned off.

How is it that much more unsafe to have them in the front than the back; if the airbag is off and the child is rear-facing?


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## marley2580

Oh for goodness sake, they'd have everybody rear facing in the back seat of an entirely empty car if they could. It is not practical to have an empty car, the mirrors stop me taking my eyes off the road therefore reducing my risk of having an accident in the first place. The fact is that travelling in the car is a dangerous act and we should take measures to reduce that risk, but we have to be practical as well. Most car accidents take place at less than 30 mph and are not high speed impacts.


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## FierceAngel

mil has a 206cc it has bucket seats in the back so her car seat has to go in the front with the airbag off..


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## Jkelmum

If it wasnt safe to have them in front without airbags it wouldnt be legal ...I think some people need to get a grip .....Dont worry hun if u put the carseat in frount without air bags its fine xx


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## Sophie1205

I think dumbass is a bit harsh tbh.. My Mum has to put my son in the front of her car because our seat DOES NOT fit in the back. I'd rather him be in his seat in the front than no seat at all! I am not a dumbass and neither is my Mum..


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## polo_princess

In my opinion a side impact accident is far more dangerous than a front impact accident, so front or rear, either way you are screwed.

I do notice all of the information available on the internet seems to be very biased, i cannot find one article available on the internet about what i have been taught by a multi million pound manufacturer about how a vehicle reacts in a front end addicent.


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## mommyof3co

marley2580 said:


> Oh for goodness sake, they'd have everybody rear facing in the back seat of an entirely empty car if they could. It is not practical to have an empty car, the mirrors stop me taking my eyes off the road therefore reducing my risk of having an accident in the first place. The fact is that travelling in the car is a dangerous act and we should take measures to reduce that risk, but we have to be practical as well. Most car accidents take place at less than 30 mph and are not high speed impacts.


I'm not putting down anyone using the mirrors, I'm giving the information that's all. Everyone can make their own choice but if they don't know that you aren't supposed to use them and why then they aren't able to make an informed decision. Just like people give different sides to when to start solids or whatever it is, it's the same thing. Everyone makes their own choice but there are recommendations and they are there for a reason :) Sure everything can't be "perfect" in the car, just like having to put them up front, it's not ideal but if that's your only choice it's ok to do that without airbags. It's best for them to ride in the middle in the back, but when you have more than one kid obviously they can't all do that, so you do what you can. Everyone just has to do what they can to keep them as safe as possible


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## AFC84

What about if you have a 3 door car with no airbags? Surely being in the front would be safer then, for ease of access in case of an accident?


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## marley2580

mommyof3co said:


> I'm not putting down anyone using the mirrors, I'm giving the information that's all. Everyone can make their own choice but if they don't know that you aren't supposed to use them and why then they aren't able to make an informed decision. Just like people give different sides to when to start solids or whatever it is, it's the same thing. Everyone makes their own choice but there are recommendations and they are there for a reason :) Sure everything can't be "perfect" in the car, just like having to put them up front, it's not ideal but if that's your only choice it's ok to do that without airbags. It's best for them to ride in the middle in the back, but when you have more than one kid obviously they can't all do that, so you do what you can. Everyone just has to do what they can to keep them as safe as possible

Sorry, wasn't aiming that at you. I just meant that the 'experts' are always coming out with things that are just not practical for a normal family.


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## Dream.A.Dream

I don't get why people are being called dumbasses for following the guidelines we are given here. :shrug: We are told here that with no airbags baby can go in the front in a rear facing seat, if there are front airbags then baby should go in the back.


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## tasha41

katy said:


> I don't get why people are being called dumbasses for following the guidelines we are given here. :shrug: We are told here that with no airbags baby can go in the front in a rear facing seat, if there are front airbags then baby should go in the back.

I think those are international guidelines actually - no airbags = okay for front seat, if there are airbags, baby goes in the back, and back seat is preferred. Regardless of where the baby is sitting, if the seat isn't used properly in a crash it will be ineffective, front or back :shrug: So I agree "dumb asses" is a bit uncalled for..


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## MummyToAmberx

all i know is, baby is not allowed in front with airbag on, otherwise it is fine. ( i have thingy next to my door to turn it off) 

personally im not comfortable with amber in front, i find she would distract me a hell of alot. 
also ive always been told back is safest place, esp in middle. 
if we were in head on or someone properly rear ended us, back would be best as i have an estate so back kinda the middle.


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## mommyof3co

Yeah "dumbass" was really uncalled for, I didn't even see it until now. I'm really big on carseats and want to go get certified as a carseat tech. I'm all for extended rear facing, Hayden is 2 and still rear facing, but I don't go calling people names like that because they choose something different. You give them the info and they have to decide what they want to do with it. Even though yes many kids end up in the morgue because of it, it's still not right to go and say that. I think everyone agrees that the backseat is safest if the option is there. The back middle is the safest for everyone, but obviously that isn't always an option. The front seat is ok only if there are no other options and only if no airbags. Remember that the type that goes off with the sensor (like if someone weighs less than a certain amount) don't count! You shouldn't ever put them in front of those even if it says on the sensor they turned off, they malfunction alot and chances are high it would still go off, so only do it if you manually turn the air bag off with a key...or you just don't have them like OP. I wouldn't make a habit of it, if you have to then you have to, but if you have another option I would always do that. It is a little more inconvenient but worth it IF god forbid something happened :(


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## polo_princess

Ignore what i said, i misread your post mommyof3, your talking about variable force deployment airbags, we dont use them a lot here its mainly the SRS system.


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## tasha41

PP we have airbags over here that are not supposed to go off if the person sitting in the seat weighs under x lbs.. my dad's truck has airbags that aren't supposed to go off unless the weight on the seat is over 70lbs. Then of course there are trucks with NO airbags, which OH's truck is... but most new trucks have or have the option for the first type :)


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## Foogirl

MummyToAmberx said:


> if we were in head on or someone properly rear ended us, back would be best as i have an estate so back kinda the middle.

See, I have a 407 coupe, I'd say the front seat is nearer the middle of the car than the rear seat. And certainly, given the only thing at the back of the car is an empty boot, whereas the front has all the engine gubbins to absorb any kinetic energy, I'd say the front would be just as safe as the back.

I have Abby in the back as when she is in the front, I find it more difficult to see the wing mirror - unless I'm on a long journey myself then she goes in the front as I don't like the idea of not seeing her for 3 hours, just in case. But that happens rarely.

I think the thing is here, people have to do what works for them. Taking your baby in the car is a risky thing to do, but whether in the front or the back, a poorly fitted seat will lead to greater injuries. If the seat fits better in the front then that is where it should be.

It is far more important to drive carefully and safely and reduce the risk of an accident in the first place. Most accidents occur because of driver error - either yours or someone elses. But even if someone else makes a mistake, you can often avoid or reduce the impact if you are a skilled enough driver. Maybe parents carrying children in the car should think about taking an advanced driving course to ensure they have the sharpest skills they can. I took a course when I was younger and it was amazing how many bad and potentially dangerous habits I had picked up since I had learned to drive. Since taking it, I have successfully avoided 3 potentially serious accidents caused by other drivers being idiots. It makes my skin crawl the way I see some people driving, with their children "safely" harnessed in a car seat. The way I approach it, is imagine you are driving with a box of your best china plates sitting on the back seat. That should be how you drive with your child.

The point about things lying in the car is a valid one though. Anything can become a missile in an accident, even at low speeds. Trying to avoid having too many loose lying objects is a good idea. Strapping your handbag to the passenger seat is a good tip too, or if that's too much of a hassle, have it on the floor under the passenger seat. Leaving it lying on the passenger seat means it will go flying in an accident. One other tip I was given was to keep rear seatbelts fastened in empty passenger seats as it can reduce the risk of anything you heavy have in your boot coming flying through the seats.

But as with all things, lets get a little perspective on it. The "MUCH safer in the back" kind of comment isn't helpful (or accurate either). It is all about not taking unnecessary risk and driving safely with a child in the front is far less risky than driving poorly with a child in the back.

I would say to the OP, however, if your rear seats are at all loose, have them checked out. Even with the carseat in the front, I'd say that could potentially be very dangerous, even in a low impact accident. Your local garage should be able to give you some advice.


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## polo_princess

What you also have to remember in these kinds of discussions is that US and UK airbag regulations are somewhat different, infact the actual airbags and systems themselves differ according to guidlines, European aribags are actually less forceful in deployment that US ones ...

As i said before do your research, research your cars safety features, you can check it with Euro Ncap ... then make your own mind up :thumbup:


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## Rah

ryder said:


> However, its their baby, not mine. Its really sad seeing babies/children down in the morgue because parents are dumbasses though.

This is the reason i have Isobelle in the front with me though, i have seen too many parents loose or nearly loose thier baby due to apnea episodes in the first 6 months 
I decided that it would be nest for me to see Isobelle and if she goes blue i can pull over asap and get help as i may not be able to tell in the mirrors as a quick glance sideways i know shes ok rather than focusing on the mirror 

At the end of the day its as polo_princess says "do your research, research your cars safety features, you can check it with Euro Ncap ... then make your own mind up"


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## Abz1982

polo_princess said:


> In my opinion a side impact accident is far more dangerous than a front impact accident, so front or rear, either way you are screwed.
> 
> I do notice all of the information available on the internet seems to be very biased, i cannot find one article available on the internet about what i have been taught by a multi million pound manufacturer about how a vehicle reacts in a front end addicent.


Our friend was killed in a side impact crash back in November. If it had been head on he would have survived.

Also, I have a 106, so in the back she is closer to the outer extremities of the car than in the front. But then I know a 106 is not the safest of cars and I do hoe to change it soon.


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## nightkd

I really don't understand how it's _that much_ safer in the back... Serious question here, can someone explain that? 

If you get rear-ended then most of the impact will be in the back so surely having the child in the back is worse than having them in the front?

The only example I've seen is a mistake on the parents part causing the child's death (the 5-year-old in the improperly installed car seat) in which case child in the back _or_ the front, they would've been killed... Anyone got a good article or something on this topic?


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## mommyof3co

The reason they say the safest is back middle seat is because the majority of crashes are front end. Rear end are actually alot less common and usually not as bad, they are usually at lower speeds, people trying to slow down but don't and hit you. Something like that. Plus you have the trunk back there so that "helps" a bit. Of course there are exceptions and there are some really bad rear end collisions they just aren't as common so they recommend using the back seat. But like that article I posted earlier, it does show some benefit to having a baby in the front, they have that extra protection from the dash (if they are rear facing)...but of course not in front of the air bag. 

But I'll see if I can find an article showing...I bet there is something on the carseat forum I'm on, the majority of members there are techs :)


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## marley2580

Actually, head on collisions are not that likely, but they are more likely to be fatal -

- Rear impacts (1,824,000 crashes, 29.6% of all US crashes, 5.4 % of US fatal crashes)
- Angle or side impacts (1,779,000 crashes, 28.9% of all US crashes, 20.7% of US fatal crashes)
- Run-off-road collisions (992,000 crashes, 16.1% of US crashes, 31.7% of US fatal crashes)
- Collisions with animals (275,000 crashes, 4.5% of US crashes, 0.4% of fatal crashes)
- Rollovers (141,000 crashes, 2.3% of all US crashes, 10.9% of US fatal crashes)
- Head-on collision (123,000 crashes, only 2.0% of all US crashes, but 10.1% of US fatal crashes)
- Collisions with pedestrians and bicyclists (114,000 crashes, only 1.8% of US crashes, but 13.5% of US fatal crashes)
- Back-up collisions killed 221 people in the US in 2007, and injured about 14,400. This is one of the most common types of non-traffic auto collision in which road workers and children 15 and younger are killed.


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## Vici

serina27 said:


> If it wasnt safe to have them in front without airbags it wouldnt be legal ...I think some people need to get a grip .....Dont worry hun if u put the carseat in frount without air bags its fine xx

Spot on :)


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## brownhairedmom

I'm pretty sure that if I was to put my baby in the front seat, I would get pulled over and ticketed and probably get a call to social services or something. There's no way that is legal here. Maybe its just in my province.


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