# Lack of intimacy & dtd



## lexus15

My oh doesn't want to dtd hardly ever. I have to literally beg/ask every month & usually get told he's 'tired' or 'tomorrow' which never comes for me :blush: He knows HE has control over this area & that I'll ask, but a few months ago I thought f**k this & never asked thinking he would want to get intimate, nope he wasn't bothered at all. Alongside this he's also stopped taking his Wellman vits saying it's giving him an upset stomach (he'd been taking it for a year with no previous problems). I'm slowly resenting him more, as it seems he wants to sabatoge us having the chance of another baby.

He's 44 with a sex drive of a 90 year old, I've have tried sexy underwear in the past but it doesn't excite him and I felt very foolish. When asked he will agree he wants another child but how does he expect it to happen if we dtd? It's not possible to use the cup & syringe method as he doesn't like to masturbate & must be the only man that doesn't. He'd prefer to spend hours on his laptop doing work, football or playing games than be intimate with me.:growlmad: 

When I've tried to talk about this he clams up, but he did mention that when he wanted to be intimate with me I used to push him away, this was at least 15 years ago..what an excuse:growlmad: 

We have a fertility checkup in the next few weeks to find out if we want to do IVF (can't afford it) as IUI, injections & clomid never worked. I explained to him that I'll be mentioning his lack of sex drive to the docs to see if there is any way they can help. 

I am angry & frustrated at myself that I have resorted asking for sex (whether it's to make a baby or not) & that he feels no way to turn me down. I'm also saddened as I come to realise that I may never carry & hold my second child & our 18 year daughter may never have a sibling.:cry: 

How do you other ladies cope with this?? It's such a huge burden on my shoulders which I constantly think about & question why I'm living with such a selfish man.


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## Zeri

Oooh, I could have written your post! :-( I'm in the same shoes too. DH is 44 and has low sex drive (I think his testosterone is low), so we hardly ever dtd. Most times it's just 2-3 times at month at the most. I think last month was a grand total of 2 times and this cycle we haven't BD at all yet, and I'm on CD18. I O'd already (on CD16) and don't have a chance in hell this month because of lack of BD. :-( I tried initiating nearly every day this week - on Monday he was too tired and said we'll BD on Tuesday. But from Tuesday night onwards we was busy with meeting and came in late every night and was too tired to dtd when I asked. So O came and went with nothing. And to make it worse, this was my last Clomid cycle too... :-( When I think that I just had my last Clomid cycle and I don't even a chance this cycle it just makes me :cry:. 

I so feel your pain. Most times I have to initiate BD, especially when it's around O. To be fair to DH, I don't tell him when I'm O'ing or share anything with him ttc-related, because I don't think he'll take well to the pressure. It's hard enough for him to want BD, I just worry that the pressure of ttc might make everything worse. :-( But it's hard when I'm in a fertile time and he turns me down too, and then O just goes by with nothing. I've ad so many cycles like this..too many to count! It's so hard to be rejected..especially in the fertile period. I'm so tired of begging too...makes me feel so pathetic.

I also have a daughter who just made 3....I had hoped to be able to give her a sibling by now.. (was pregnant in July 2011 but miscarried at 81/2 weeks). I'm 36 now and worry that my time will run out and that I'll never be able to give her a brother or sister, or experience having another baby, which I want so bad. :cry:

Anyway, sorry for rambling... just wanted to say that I completely feel where you're coming from. And it is hard to cope when you just want a baby so bad. Have you ever tried your DH on libido boosting supplements? DH and I were taking Maca before and it helped...but then he stopped taking them because he felt they were causing him to have a pain in his side. :-( I'm trying to get him to take them again. 

It's good that you guys have a fertility appt coming up. Hopefully the docs will be able to recommend something for his sex drive. I believe that if he and my DH's sex drive was better ttc wouldn't be such a chore! Finger s crossed for you!


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## Suzy_Q

I've had the same problem... not ashamed to say it but porn dvds work for me. Just pop them in and let the good times roll ;-)


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## lexus15

He's such a prude he doesn't or won't watch porn, maybe our blokes are this way as they are approaching middle age? 

We haven't tried Maca but he can just about take a Wellman vit every few days. Is it a powder? Maybe I could add it to his plate of dinner & he'll never know:wacko:

Feel free to pm me should you want to express yourself rather than at our OH's:trouble:


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## Zeri

Yes, I guess it's an age-related thing with guys over 40. I hear about it a lot on these boards. Still, maybe it doesn't have to be this way? I don't know if I"m quite ready for an asexual relationship at age 36. I think supplements can definitely help. It's unfortunate your DH doesn't like taking pills, but yes, maca is sold in powder form as well and can be mixed in foods and drinks, like smoothies. I hear the black maca is especially powerful. 

I'm thinking of ordering some Horny Goat WEed for DH - from reading about it online it helps a lot with libido, but it also can have a few side effects. I'm hoping he would be willing to take it - something really needs to change for the better.


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## Briss

are you sure you are not taking about my DH? sounds awfully familiar :) 

porn does not really help us, I am the one who keeps magazines at home and practically force him to look through... never thought that would be my life at this point

I've given him maca, Horny Goat Weed and all the rest of it, no effect whatsoever. I am beginning to think it's psychological, he is probably resisting me and this whole TTC thing.


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## Blythe

Yeah ladies what makes me laugh is when girls say they got pregnant when they were taking a break....well clearly they werent because the had sex around the time they ovulated! If we had a break from ttc we wouldnt dtd for ages (particulary when its this cold!). Spontanious sex is something we used to do....ttc has put an end to that malarky!


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## Zeri

Blythe - same thing here. If I don't initiate then it'll probably be months. We haven't sex now for about 3 1/2 weeks... I wish I could be like one of those girls who doesn't have to try but just gets pregnant...! Ha! That'll never happen in my world!

Briss, sorry to hear that nothing works on your DH. DO you usually manage to get any BD in during your fertile window?

AFM - Just got some HOrny Goat Weed for DH. I'm hoping he'll be open to taking it and that it will help.


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## Briss

I make hubby BD during my fertile window, whatever it takes. I can get really upset if he refuses and over 2 years we have been TTC I've made scenes, threatened with divorce, forced him etc so I guess it's partly my fault that he now does not feel like doing it ever. i mean we still do 1-3 times a month during my fertile period but he clearly does not enjoy it


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## lexus15

Briss said:


> I am beginning to think it's psychological, he is probably resisting me and this whole TTC thing.

I think this is my OH...He 'agrees' with me on certain things & makes the appropriate comments with ttc #2 but psychologically I feel that he doesn't 'really' want another child. 

I've tried all sort of ways to get him to admit to this but so far he's avoided being truthful. I'd rather the truth that he doesn't want another baby rather than the half assed once a month attempt (if i'm lucky). 

I'm going to look into buying maca, Briss where did you order yours?

:hugs:


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## BabyBean14

I was wondering if maybe your DH is trying to cover for an erectile disfunction? :shrug: Maybe something like Viagra to help him...uh...stand at attention would help. My DH is 42 and has absolutely no problem in that department. In our relationship, I'm the one with the issues, unfortunately. I've had a lot of physical/sexual trauma and while I get turned on, I don't want it more than once/week usually. :blush:


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## Briss

lexus15 said:


> Briss said:
> 
> 
> I am beginning to think it's psychological, he is probably resisting me and this whole TTC thing.
> 
> I think this is my OH...He 'agrees' with me on certain things & makes the appropriate comments with ttc #2 but psychologically I feel that he doesn't 'really' want another child.
> 
> I've tried all sort of ways to get him to admit to this but so far he's avoided being truthful. I'd rather the truth that he doesn't want another baby rather than the half assed once a month attempt (if i'm lucky).
> 
> I'm going to look into buying maca, Briss where did you order yours?
> 
> :hugs:Click to expand...

I got him this maca https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000WP6AAM/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00 

My Dh actually admitted that he is not sure he wants a child. I am quite upset that I have to come up with a "business case" to persuade him that this is a good idea.


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## Zeri

Kismet - that's a good point about trying to cover up potential ED issues. I know sometimes my DH doesn't want to BD at certain times because he fears being unable to 'perform'. I think once their confidence is boosted in that Dept. (with Viagra aetc) they're a lot more open to dtd spontaneously. 

Briss and lexus - my DH never really cared for children either. When we got married we agreed on trying for at least 2, though, because he always knew that I wanted. Still, when we discussed trying for #1 first he had a lot of fears/anxieties about how life would change etc, and would often ask me 'why do I want to have children?; and point out all the great things about a childfree lifestyle. I tried not to share my cycle details with him and just tried to seduce him at that time because I figured he would get anxious about the whole thing and not be able to perform, or either resist BD. Thankfully I did get pregnant quickly (on Clomid) -DH was anxious when I got my bfp and pretty much all throughout my pregnancy but he loves our DD so much now and is a great Dad, although he still doesn't think we need another child right now. I think if did have another he would love him/her just as much as our DD though. I don't know...I think most guys love their children once they're born, but something about the act of 'trying' to have a baby - actually proactively creating life makes them scared. 

Briss, have you ever been on Clomid? It can help give you that extra 'edge' in conceiving...


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## Briss

Zeri, I totally agree and I am sure my DH will be in love with our child as soon as he/she is born but at present he has these irrational fears and there is nothing I can do. I have not tried Clomid cos I ovulate on my own. Also I am not entirely sure but I think Clomid stimulates ovaries and I have cysts. Besides, our problem is hubby's low sperm count.


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## Zeri

Briss said:


> Zeri, I totally agree and I am sure my DH will be in love with our child as soon as he/she is born but at present he has these irrational fears and there is nothing I can do. I have not tried Clomid cos I ovulate on my own. Also I am not entirely sure but I think Clomid stimulates ovaries and I have cysts. Besides, our problem is hubby's low sperm count.

I ovulate on my own too and have polycystic ovaries..but I agree the stimulation effect probably isn't the best if you already have cysts. Clomid can help in cases of low sperm count as well - if you ovulate on your own you might release more than one egg which gives the sperm more targets to hit. Of course, there's also the chance of twins, which is not an outcome everybody wants. 

anyway, hopefully with the challenges we all face, we'll all get preggo sooner rather than later.


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## 2have4kids

This has been such a controversial idea but I still stand by it. With the oh's who are refusing every month, have you considered using donor sperm? I want 4 children and I'm so happy to have DH in my life (most times anyway lol) but would seriously consider donor sperm if he wasn't living up to his part of the agreement every month. 

I would go down the path with the NHS (on my own) to figure out what process I need to do it and communicate my intentions after I've sorted out an alternate route. But I know not all relationships can withstand this, I'm pretty headstrong and would never let my husband or any other man control my dreams. I' probably even more extreme on the matter because I watched his eldest bro do this to his wife. He's a chauvinist pig -my bro in law and thank god she divorced him, thank goodness my husband is happy to bd when we see the double lines on the opk but had he been more like his eldest bro, I'd have to map out my future with a partner who's a professional saboteur.

I've written this before and the lady who liked the idea of planning out a future with kids despite husband said just the mention of it spurred a competitive positive reaction from her partner. I don't think it would work for very many ladies, I get that we want to see a reflection of our men and you in baby. I guess I have a clear picture of my future (despite my shit diagnosis and late start) and I'll do anything to carve out that life for me.


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## Suzy_Q

2have4kids - this is exactly what my long-term boyfriend and I went through. He kept putting me off, I kept getting older so I looked into donor sperm. He went with me to every appointment (even after we officially broke up the night before the RE appointment). He eventually caved when the costs of donor sperm and IUI were discussed. He had decided that if I had someone else's child everyone we know would assume it was his and he "couldn't do that to a child" so he is my "donor". We are tentatively back together but he needed to know that he can leave if he wants/needs to after a child is conceived. As a 38 year old, I will be deliriously happy with a child with or without a man. Being a divorcee, I know men can come and go but my opportunity to have a child is now!


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## 2have4kids

That's exactly how I feel. I have had too many disappointments from men in my life to allow them to take this dream away. I'm so happy you found a way around getting your goal, it's so much better when they just 'put out'!:haha:

The way I see it too, my mom is going to live to 90 or 100 and my dad is failing at 70. That's 30 years without my OH if it works out the same for me. If I have no children that would be a lonely time to live through without family-20-30 YEARS! I want to be invited to family vacations on the beach and watch grandchildren play in the sand. And I want to babysit for my kids when they have their own kids. There is SO much love and life beyond this stage of life, It's my mission to set that up.:plane:


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## Briss

I suggested using donor sperm to my DH but from his response I gathered it would mean a divorce. I am still going to give him a bit more time cos he is trying (not as hard as me) but I agree that I will be happy with a child with or without a man and I also feel that my opportunity to have a child is now and it's just passing me by while I am waiting for my DH to come to his senses


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## viccat

Hi all, I am coming to hang out with you guys. I could have written so much of what has already been said about how you feel, needing to pester the OH to DTD.

In the last 3 cycles we have DTD twice. That is because I have lost heart with it all, so not been pestering as much.

It frustrates the heck out of me, because otherwise we get on great and I have a lot of respect and love for him. I actually don't just want a child, I want a family, and don't want to do this on my own. He actually does more looking after our pets than I do, and seems quite happy with the idea of having kids. He just doesn't seem able to translate that into DTD even if he isn't in the mood :nope: ...... and being realistic he is virtually never in the mood.


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## Minimin

Oh my I could have written some of these posts! :-/


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## lexus15

Well ladies as I guessed, I started af this weekend after dtd once this cycle.. was sad as I am each month at failing but I didn't expect anything different :nope:

Interesting points made about using donor sperm, but tbh I would prefer my babies to be with my oh than use a donor but I totally understand other ladies views on this and would not dismiss this idea myself if it came to it. We have our fs checkup appt tomorrow to discuss ivf, however I plan to ask about tests for my oh's lack of sex drive. 

Don't think oh has erectile dysfunction as he maintains it when we do dtd but who knows? What's weird is that we have a fairly happy relationship, laugh & joke around & even cuddle up in bed, but that's it, no further unless more times I initiate it..arghh! Why couldn't 't I end up with a man that wanted lots of sex?:shrug::haha:


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## Briss

Lexus, sorry about AF. Lucky 2013!

re lack of sex drive, I will be giving my DH 5 grams of Arginine 45 minutes before sex. I really hope it works


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## 2have4kids

Briss, is the arginine to help him get/maintain a woody?


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## Briss

I think it's more about getting him "inspired" to be bothered to get a woody :) I have been giving him 500 everyday but it does not seem to work, so now I increased his maca to 3 gm every day and really want to see whether larger dose of arginine can make a difference


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## 2have4kids

It's absolutely ridiculous that the inspiration doesn't come simply by snuggling up to you. Back in the day where men had to go outside and work hard they often came back home to wife with a veracious multifaceted appetite. Now, we come home and he's got a headache or too tired Was is the exercise? Should we be getting hamster wheels in the house to rev things up a notch for these guys?


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## Briss

I think most men feel "inspired" all the time but only a few can feel the same about their long term partner and in a baby making context. Over the last couple of years we had so many arguments in bed over positions, length etc so it seems to be getting trickier and trickier to get him inspired. We still love each other and kiss and hug each other all the time, there is a lot of touching going on but not that much goes further 

I think you are right arginine seems to also make erections stronger "The usual dosage of supplemental Arginine employed for the treatment of Male Infertility is 4,000 &#8211; 8,000 mg (4 &#8211; 8 grams) per day. An average dosage of Arginine for the enhancement of Sexual Performance is 5,000 mg (5 grams) taken approximately 45 minutes prior to expected sexual activity" Natural sources of arginine include nuts, gelatin, chocolate, brown rice, oatmeal, raisins, sunflower/sesame seeds, whole-wheat bread, and protein-rich foods.


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## lexus15

Thanks Briss, if it works let me know & that will be something for him to try in 2013! xx


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## djh

this all sounds so familiar, only my dh is only31! you would think at that age his sex drive would be roaring! last week was my o week and the day that i got the positive opk he didnt "feel like it and was not in the mood" i had everything all set up... lingerie, candles..and i stood half naked infront of him begging him and he got so angry.. he yelled, i yelled.. i made it worse because i begged...and what makes me really upset is that he did not seem to care that this was my peak day of fertility and it would have been my best chance and he didnt feel like it--he is studying for a big test to upgrade his skills....but still come on...make a sacrafice...theres been times when he wanted sex and i didnt but i still went along with it...

it seems to be the same thing some of you are saying...that they say they want a child but when it comes down to it...how badly do they want it if you can hardly get enough bd'ing out of them in a week to have a healthy chance? 

i guess maybe since i found out that he was interested in having kids (the topic has been brought up over the years but i never really got a straight answer out of him) finally when i hit 30 i told him this is it i want kids and idont want to regret not trying to have one or 2..so this was back in august...we have been trying 4 months but usually most months i only got him to bd 2 times in the fertile week... he doesnt like feeling like a baby making machine/sperm bank.

i would still be angry with him, but i decided its christmas and i should try to make an effort to be normal..and its not a good time to be fighting.... i am still angry at him but am not showing it.... i want a child so badly and am worried that i cant have any..everyone around me is pregnant or already have kids.

hopefully by now some of you on this post have conceived! good luck, baby dust to you all and Merry Christmas!


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## Briss

DJH, I feel for you, but I agree fighting just makes it worse. I made this mistake, am approaching O and was all over my DH this weekend and still nothing. apparently there was a short window when he felt like it but I was busy working (basically just 1.5 hours I urgently needed to send some documents out) and if I'd approached him during this window we would have had sex. now how would I know that? we have not DB for 3 weeks now, unlike my DH I have healthy sex drive and am going mad... also, just thinking that we are missing my fertile window made me furious so we had a major argument so now not only I have no BD but our Christmas is also ruined.


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## chickenchaser

Hi Ladies, my sex drive is much higher than my DH (he is 44, I'm 36) But I have to give him the credit he ready does try. The problem is we both work really hard, we want to bring in as much money as possible before our BFP to help pay off our mortgage. When he is tired, no matter what I do I can't inspire him. We have an agreement I can do what ever it takes to get his little guy to perform but if he refuses I can't get cross. It has become a bit of a joke that 9am on a sunday is the only day we can have sex. But this month my fertile window fell while we were both off work and relaxed so I made the most of it. I'm now 8DPO and symptom spotting like mad.
I think sometime you need to talk to your OH and find out what the problem is, I know this isn't always easy. We have been there and the tears and argument just make it worse. I have to keep in mind that he isn't with holding to hurt me. I think sometime us ladies need to remember that we are in our sexual prime in our 30's, men hit their in their late teens/early 20's. I wish you all luck and hope your DH come around.


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## Briss

we finally BD! :happydance::happydance::happydance:
not sure what did it for him, that bottle of champaign, larger dose of arginine that I have been giving him last few days, may be it's christmas spirit or he just got his conscience and realised that he's been neglecting me. anyway I am just so happy :) Merry Christmas everyone!


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## lexus15

Well done Briss!:happydance: 

I'm angry as we've managed it once so far (wow.!) According to my cbfm I'm ov today but once again OH is not interested even though we went for our fs appt last week, he sat & listened, then agreed with the fs about dtd every other day in the week leading up to ov..(whatever, he couldn't manage that). This is so frustrating.:grr::grr:


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## Briss

Lexus, I am sorry Dh is not cooperating, I know how frustrating this can be. The good thing is that he went to FS and at least listened to what he is supposed to be doing may be it will just take him a little time to adjust

re arginine, although my DH is not convinced it is working cos I gave him 5 gm before we BD and he said he did not feel anything but I was actually giving him 3 gm daily as well and we BD every day this week so I am pretty sure it was working he just does not want to acknowledge it


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## Zeri

Wow Briss, that's great that you guys BDed every day this week! That's quite an improvement, isn't it? Sounds like you've got a really good chance this month! I didn't know L'Arginine could work that well.....good to know. 

lexus - sorry about the BD struggles with the DH... :-(


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## nobump

I feel your pain. Was so happy fertile time was over the holidays when we are both off. We work full time. Hubby works backshift me 9 til 5 so during week not always best. Needless to say not been great so far. Trying to fit it in yesterday while making dinner was not a good idea. But to full afterwards. Now he thinks he has a cold. Count to ten! We have a few days left to try this cycle fingers crossed. OH is 48 I'm 37 time running out think 50 is cutoff for him. Been trying for over 4 years. Waiting list for ICIS butt not likely to start before 2014. Rant over.


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## Izzie74

Oh my goodness i could have written some of these too! With my DH it is always 'later'. If i ask for it i don't get it, if i don't ask for it i don't get it, if i cry and beg i'm a nag and feel awful when i do have it!

Thought it was just me til i read all your messages! Makes TTC really difficult as there is never a 'right time'.

2-3 times a month? one poster said - I wish! DH already has children with previous partner so of course everyone has that - it must be you look in their eye. I do have problems with tubes and unexplained infertility.....but if only they knew!!!!


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## Zeri

Briss, just wondering if you're planning to test anytime soon? 

:dust:


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## Briss

Zeri, I've been TTC for ages and just find testing really stressful and upsetting, seeing bfn after bfn so I stopped testing. besides my AF is never ever late, if anything it's early so there is no opportunity for me to get excited. 

ladies just wanted to share re arginine. I've become a great advocate of this sup recently but I noticed that you can get a different result depending on where you buy it from. I previously used H&B's but was giving my DH only 500 every day and there was no increase in his sex drive whatsoever. more recently I bought Highernature's sup but I also increased his dose to 3000 every day before my O + 5000 40 min before BD (only managed it once) and 1000 after O. but even with 1000 my DH said yesterday that he actually feels like having sex most of the time (something he never said before!).


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## Suzy_Q

OH just turned me down :grr: He's off to the sauna and that is only one BD this cycle. Oh, and that BD was really just a BJ for him and a softcup for me. I wish I could get him to take supplements but he just is not into sex, ever! I'm so frustrated. Someone, please give me some encouraging words so I don't take it out on him when he gets back... :cry:


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## Briss

Suzy, :hugs: I am very sorry about your DH. Unfortunately I do not have any good advice. I've been in this situation far too often myself. for the first year of our TTC I just tried to be nice and accommodating, was trying to seduce my DH as much as I could but if he did not feel like it I let it be without making any noise and as a result we missed half of our opportunities. last year I became really annoyed and made lots of scenes and we had so many arguments in bed, I succeeded in forcing my DH to BD every cycle at least twice during the fertile time but sex became an obligation which he cant enjoy, he never initiates sex and I am still not pregnant. since I put him on supplements that increase his sex drive it's become slightly easier to get him to BD


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## Suzy_Q

I'm sure this is a ridiculous and horrible thing to say, but I sometimes wish I were a lesbian. Men are a pain in the @$$ and women are so much more understanding and emotionally supportive. Grrr. Thanks for being the voice of reason on this one. I am just at my wits end today. Hopefully tomorrow/next cycle will be better.


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## Briss

Suzy, what's your DH's sperm count? if it's ok then may be it's not such a big deal if you miss a few opportunities but will keep your relationship as loving and carrying in the long term?

re lesbian couples, it's actually not as easy as you may think. a fellow B&B member had such difficult time with her lesbian partner while at the same time trying get things going with their donor, timing is always being an issue etc I was observing it for a few months and realised that it's much easier to be dealing with just one DH


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## Suzy_Q

Yeah, I know the grass is always greener really means the grass just LOOKS greener. I've only had him take a home SA and he "passed" so over 20 million. I have to take him in to get the real SA in the next two weeks so I'm going to try to chill out, take a deep breath and gain some perspective. If I try to view the situation from his perspective, poor guy just wasn't in the mood and doesn't fully understand the fertility window. And me, his crazy SO is giving him a hard time and nagging which just adds pressure. If I could just get that BFP already...


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## tessjs

having bad issues myself... in my fertile window and not once has he wanted to do it... so angry i wouldn't even dream of telling him it sthe fertile time put stoo much pressure on:( 

not happy at all... i can't even get him to feel my ass (sorry for TMI)
tried to look prettier today but no to no avail:( its depressing....


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## Suzy_Q

Been there Tess, :hugs:

My SO is so asexual that I sometimes feel that there is really nothing I can do to convince him. I just have to find the balance between being understanding and being demanding. If it weren't for oral sex and softcups (TMI) I'd probably be out every month ](*,)


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## Zeri

Briss - I've been stalking your chart. Just noticed you got AF... that sucks :-( How are you feelng?

I notice that your post-O temps look a little low/close to the coverline too. Do you think it's possible that could indicate a progesterone issue?


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## lexus15

Ladies I'm sorry that you are going through these problems. It amazes me that so many of us are having similar problems with our OH/hubbies.:shrug:

I had a huge row with my OH a few days after Christmas over the fact we only dtd once + he was making excuses under the sun not to as well. I really had enough & said if he wasn't prepared to do dtd then maybe I should use a sperm donor!

Not nice I know, but I couldn't take any more, he knows that every month HE doesn't try/give it his all/rejects me so why shouldn't I hurt him :growlmad: 

We've recently just started speaking & discussed (more me) what happened although no solutions were found (typical) & as I thought I would AF came this month, a few days early at that!

It's a new year, I'm looking & trying to move forward without focussing on dtd, although this is easier said than done but I've recently started a new job so my mind is elsewhere for now!

Good luck to us all!!:thumbup:


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## Briss

Zeri, thanks I am so depressed over AF, it came early and gave me yet another short cycle... after I had this bloody lap my cycles are just getting shorter and shorter. you might be right about progesterone but I did a few blood tests and it was within norm. I am taking various supps to help with that as well just in case. I have been temping for a year and my post O temps have never been high really. but I do not spot during TWW so I thought it means progesterone must be ok. 

am so annoyed with DH, arginine and other supps did increase his sex drive but instead of making love to me he for some reason just keeps it all in and then comes during his sleep! sorry for tmi I examined his underpants this morning and they were clearly covered in semen. I mean it's ok in a sense that it's not wasted I am not in my fertile stage but still I would not mind having sex I actually asked for it and did not get it. what is this? laziness?


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## charm2mama

I'm so glad I read through these posts...and I'm relieved I'm not alone here. I've always had more sex drive than my OH, even before TTC. We BD 4-6 a month...and I think this is because we only see eachother on weekends...if we lived together, I really think this number will be lower and I would get more "later baby". :growlmad:

I'm really hoping he has low testosterone...that maybe his libido is something that can be increased. Not just for TTC but in general. I don't want to feel like I am the only one wanting sex. I'm also hoping testosterone is what is causing his male infertility. :shrug:


----------



## tessjs

lexus15 said:


> Ladies I'm sorry that you are going through these problems. It amazes me that so many of us are having similar problems with our OH/hubbies.:shrug:
> 
> I had a huge row with my OH a few days after Christmas over the fact we only dtd once + he was making excuses under the sun not to as well. I really had enough & said if he wasn't prepared to do dtd then maybe I should use a sperm donor!
> 
> Not nice I know, but I couldn't take any more, he knows that every month HE doesn't try/give it his all/rejects me so why shouldn't I hurt him :growlmad:
> 
> We've recently just started speaking & discussed (more me) what happened although no solutions were found (typical) & as I thought I would AF came this month, a few days early at that!
> 
> It's a new year, I'm looking & trying to move forward without focussing on dtd, although this is easier said than done but I've recently started a new job so my mind is elsewhere for now!
> 
> Good luck to us all!!:thumbup:

OMG I had a row the other day with my hubby about not wanting to do it on monday as This was my prime fertile day I believe:(....It was horrific and I'm only just getting over it.... I felt rejected and that he didn't seem serious about trying to make a baby..I'm old and I need to take advantage of my fertile time before i have to try for IVF in march april:(...
he just understand the fertile time..i was so frustrated I wa sin tears for a whole day...:( it was terrible stuff..

i just don't know how some women get pregnant with their OH's .they are like kids..So bad....

I just dunno what will happen next month another bust I would imagine:(


----------



## Suzy_Q

Now I'm not married so that does change my options but I'm strongly considering no longer doing things I don't want to do, much like he does. If I don't want to go to a sports bar or drive him around while he drinks at bars or helping him in anyway, then I'm not going to. Much like he doesn't want to have sex or go to the fertility specialist and get a SA. 

Does this make me evil? I think our relationship is very lopsided. I go out of my way for him all the time and he can't budge an inch on this which is obviously very important to me. I've already threatened to use a donor 5 months ago and he eventually caved but maybe it's time to truly cut my loses and go it alone...

Grrr...


----------



## charm2mama

Suzy_Q said:


> Now I'm not married so that does change my options but I'm strongly considering no longer doing things I don't want to do, much like he does. If I don't want to go to a sports bar or drive him around while he drinks at bars or helping him in anyway, then I'm not going to. Much like he doesn't want to have sex or go to the fertility specialist and get a SA.
> 
> Does this make me evil? I think our relationship is very lopsided. I go out of my way for him all the time and he can't budge an inch on this which is obviously very important to me. I've already threatened to use a donor 5 months ago and he eventually caved but maybe it's time to truly cut my loses and go it alone...
> 
> Grrr...

Going it alone is something all women over a certain age with partners that are not as cooperative have to think about. Men just don't have the same biological urgency to have children. It probably has to do with the fact that their fertility doesn't have a time limit. They just have this, it will happen when it happens attitude. 

I think some compromise is important in a relationship but if you truly think it is that uneven, maybe it is time to have a serious conversation him. By caving, does that mean he is OK with using donor sperm, or no? Is your infertility mainly male factor?


----------



## Suzy_Q

He is not okay with me using donor sperm. In fact, we broke up after 4 years because I wanted to try to conceive and he didn't. I decided to use donor sperm and set up all the tests/appointments with the FS and he decided to go with me (we had broken up the day before my appointment). Only after all the tests were done and it was time to pull the trigger did he cave. He claimed that if the child was not his, it would be unfair to the child as everyone would assume it's his. He is clear that he is mainly a donor with the option to bail but we essentially live as a couple. 

He is not good with talking about things up front. He "falls" into doing the right thing but when I try to clearly discuss anything, he acts like I'm nagging and tunes out. I'm frustrated because of the timing issues and because, while men can come and go, this opportunity to TTC is limited. I don't have time for his "falling" into the right decision here. Sorry to unload on you all, I'm just frustrated and not sure how to move forward. I'm on CD 19 and want to start clomid on the next cycle but I can't do that until he gets the SA. Boo.


----------



## charm2mama

Suzy_Q said:


> He is not okay with me using donor sperm. In fact, we broke up after 4 years because I wanted to try to conceive and he didn't. I decided to use donor sperm and set up all the tests/appointments with the FS and he decided to go with me (we had broken up the day before my appointment). Only after all the tests were done and it was time to pull the trigger did he cave. He claimed that if the child was not his, it would be unfair to the child as everyone would assume it's his. *He is clear that he is mainly a donor with the option to bail but we essentially live as a couple.*
> 
> He is not good with talking about things up front. He "falls" into doing the right thing but when I try to clearly discuss anything, he acts like I'm nagging and tunes out. I'm frustrated because of the timing issues and because, while men can come and go, this opportunity to TTC is limited. I don't have time for his "falling" into the right decision here. Sorry to unload on you all, I'm just frustrated and not sure how to move forward. I'm on CD 19 and want to start clomid on the next cycle but I can't do that until he gets the SA. Boo.

That's a really tough situation. If he is free to bail at anytime and if his semen quality is the major factor preventing you to conceive then it might be best to move on to donor sperm. I think it is totally unfair that he is not committing to TTC OR sticking around. That's really unhealthy for you! I can see why you are considering cutting your losses. I don't know him and I'm getting pissed! I really hope you will not have to and your OH gets more cooperative!!

There is organization, single mothers by choice...I think they have a website and maybe a support group in different cities. I think many women who are part of this have made the choice of leaving SO/DH/OH that were never going to be ready to TTC. I have thought about looking them up if it ever came to that.


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## ghanagirl

Wow ladies, once again thanks to the ladies on BnB, you have probably saved my sanity and my OHs life! I really wanted to catch the eggie this month as i would have been due to deliver my first if all had worked out, so a pregnancy would have eased the pain of the passing due date somewhat. I wanted to KILL my OH when he said he didnt feel like it! Im 42, no time to waste on missed opportunities! Its like Geez, he just makes one well timed deposit n ive got 40 weeks of hard work, which i would gladly take. We BD 10+ times a month, i just gotta get him to give that extra effort at fertile time. I really dont think he quite understands...


----------



## Zeri

Briss said:


> Zeri, thanks I am so depressed over AF, it came early and gave me yet another short cycle... after I had this bloody lap my cycles are just getting shorter and shorter. you might be right about progesterone but I did a few blood tests and it was within norm. I am taking various supps to help with that as well just in case. I have been temping for a year and my post O temps have never been high really. but I do not spot during TWW so I thought it means progesterone must be ok.
> 
> am so annoyed with DH, arginine and other supps did increase his sex drive but instead of making love to me he for some reason just keeps it all in and then comes during his sleep! sorry for tmi I examined his underpants this morning and they were clearly covered in semen. I mean it's ok in a sense that it's not wasted I am not in my fertile stage but still I would not mind having sex I actually asked for it and did not get it. what is this? laziness?

Do you mean he masturbates during the night, or he has a wet dream? That's frustrating either way, though! It's a good thing you weren't in your fertile stage at the time - I would be made to have all those swimmers going to waste. :growlmad: On the other hand, it's good that his drive is increasing. I wonder if he feels more like having sex in the early morning hours? That's when testosterone surges in men, apparently - which is why men sometimes have morning erections. I've been having a similar issue with DH. He told me last week that he had been masturbating in the morning when I'm at work (he's a DJ so works nights). I was mad because I was in my fertile time, but I was still happy he had a drive. It turns out that he feels horny in the mornings, and masturbates - so in the evening he doesn't want to :sex:. Sometimes I ask him for it and he turns me down (probably because of already masturbating in the morning, and sometimes it's tiredness too). Testosterone is lower in the nights than it is the mornings, so maybe that's what's influencing your DH? Part of it could be laziness too...because I think it's less work to masturbate than it is to make love.


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## Briss

a wet dream I guess cos he has no recollection of what happened, so frustrating cos it means his body actually wants sex but he just cant be bothered. And I am usually up for it any time morning evening middle of the night but he would not. it's also something psychological cos he says he nowadays wakes up with erection but then thinks of me, our arguments over sex and it goes away


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## Zeri

Briss said:


> a wet dream I guess cos he has no recollection of what happened, so frustrating cos it means his body actually wants sex but he just cant be bothered. And I am usually up for it any time morning evening middle of the night but he would not. it's also something psychological cos he says he nowadays wakes up with erection but then thinks of me, our arguments over sex and it goes away

Hmmm...that sucks. :-( Do you think that if the fertility talk was kept to minimum (hard to do, I know) that the psychological block would go away, and that he would be more open to sex in general, now that his sex drive has increased?


----------



## Zeri

ghanagirl said:


> Wow ladies, once again thanks to the ladies on BnB, you have probably saved my sanity and my OHs life! I really wanted to catch the eggie this month as i would have been due to deliver my first if all had worked out, so a pregnancy would have eased the pain of the passing due date somewhat. I wanted to KILL my OH when he said he didnt feel like it! Im 42, no time to waste on missed opportunities! Its like Geez, he just makes one well timed deposit n ive got 40 weeks of hard work, which i would gladly take. We BD 10+ times a month, i just gotta get him to give that extra effort at fertile time. I really dont think he quite understands...

Wow, 10x times a month still sounds like a lot to me! I would love to get that. DH and I probably do it about 3 times a month tops, and just about once in my fertile window. :-( But I feel you on getting them to ramp it up - sometimes it's so hard and so frustrating. I don't think they understand the urgency of ttc after age 35. :-(


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## tessjs

The urgency is crazy and its been driving me for some time actually well before 35..

its takes along time for a relationship some times to lead to where it needs to so by the time i got to end of 35yrs old I had been broken up with its taken me after that some two years to achieve dating,start a new relationship,get engaged,move in together,get married it took me quite some time and ya know thats another two years on top of 36...I would say to younger women and particurly early 30,s to not waste one moment with somebody who even the slightest is baulking at having children because the turn-around time is unknown and i was lucky it was only two years it could of been more...but it was already too late by the time my horrible and evil ex had dumped me on my 36th birthday..I will never forget the day the deed was don e..I knew then that having a child was going to be the biggest battle ever , i remember thinking OMG I may never have kids and I'm really seeing the pain of that now...

if i ever do have a child and its a girl I will be teaching her to have children young, regardless of what others may say..Yes, try and have a career but don't let yourself get too old to have children because the pain is horrific. having a career is not worth losing your chance of having a child over.By the way I didn't have a career which make sthis even more difficult for me..i had bad luck with men and life in general.....


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## Briss

I feel that our generation has been tricked into thinking that we could have children at any age and that the most important thing is having a career. i was so sure of that, it's only last couple of years that I realised that unless you are a genius and can really make a difference in the world no career can compensate for lack of children. I feel very stupid for ever believing having children can wait


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## vermeil

awww ladies *hugs* try to keep positive. I know it`s hard. I met my DH when I was 35, married at 36, fell pregnant at 37, gave birth to my wonderful son at 38. I know quite a few people who conceived in their 40s. The reason you don`t hear much of 40 year olds having kids is... the vast majority of them aren`t trying for kids :winkwink: You can also conceive solo. There are tons of advantages of having kids later. 

:flower:


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## tessjs

Briss said:


> I feel that our generation has been tricked into thinking that we could have children at any age and that the most important thing is having a career. i was so sure of that, it's only last couple of years that I realised that unless you are a genius and can really make a difference in the world no career can compensate for lack of children. I feel very stupid for ever believing having children can wait

so bloody true..how are you Briss by the way.having a rough week myself..bad acne, AF supposed to be arriving any day...geez:(


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## Briss

hi tessjs, are you going to start vitamin b5 for acne? I've already ordered some. my chart is a mess, dot a cold this morning and my temp is up no idea whether I've O or not yet. at least hubby was behaving and after some persuasion he agreed to BD on both peaks :) 

I hope your AF stays away


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## tessjs

Briss said:


> hi tessjs, are you going to start vitamin b5 for acne? I've already ordered some. my chart is a mess, dot a cold this morning and my temp is up no idea whether I've O or not yet. at least hubby was behaving and after some persuasion he agreed to BD on both peaks :)
> 
> I hope your AF stays away

Yes I'm going to buy some tommorrow to add to my growing list of supps..its crazy...the last thing I need is acne killing the mojo:( i don't just get it on my face I get it on my back as well..whats the best dosage? I can get a 500mg thompsons brand...is that going to even improve it...? what sthe dosage that will kick in and make some inroads?

thank god your hubby agreed to do the deed at the right time.AF supposed to be coming thurs for me desperate for it not to but I have all the signs, teariness, moody,acne,breasts feel bigger(sorry TMI) jan was a disaster though, everything went wrong but i had terrible work issues this month and where i live awful heat(god i hate summer) .

the two things i want to introduce for feb i am scared of the most soft cups and conceive plus.putting stuff up your hoo ha is a bit of a worry...i hate the whole process AF arrives and the you got to start counting as usual... then you do your OPK's and hope hubby is up for it at those positives or before I should say...its just a huuuuuugggeeee process.i wonder how anybody gets born at all..I have at least a coupe or more cycles documented in my journal now..I have info..which I am proud of...

the one thing I have failed badly at are temps, very bad at it I miss most days or something happens and i forget... its pretty awful...the only successes n my TTC journey i've had is with Grapefruit juice so much EWCM....

well heres to another week...trying to conceive ?How longs a piece of string??????


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## Briss

I got 500mg higher natures brand, we can take 5 g but I will start with 1 g. 

I also keep a diary, have been for a year now where I put all TTC related info and various symptoms on a daily basis, even my dreams. I did help me to learn so much about my body

we used pre-seed this cycle. I also got soft cups ages ago but would not dare to use them yet. they are so huge, i cant even begin to think how would that feel.


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## viccat

Hi again girls, been a while since I've been online ...... well around here anyway. Feeling pretty despondent with it, so not felt like logging on.



Zeri said:


> Part of it could be laziness too...because I think it's less work to masturbate than it is to make love.

I do wonder whether my hubby masturbates, even though he says not. Laziness is my best guess as to why he might be doing this instead of making love.

How is everyone today? :)


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## viccat

Question for you girls....

..... would you use a known donor? I have an ex-lover offering to do the deed. At the start of this I would never have considered it, but I am getting so miserable, and none of the talking / caring / sharing / crying seems to help with the man I WANT to have a family with :cry:


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## Zeri

viccat, that's a great question. How would your OH feel about it? 

It's something I thought about when DH and I had a fight about ttc#2. I threatened that I would find someone to have another baby with... I think it made him feel bad but also realize how serious I was about the whole thing. Tbh, I wasn't that serious then about trying with someone else...in my heart I want it to be him and I want to have his child and have my daughter to have a full sibling, but then...I'm also serious about wanting to have another baby. If I didn't have the chance to have another one with him I think it's something I would probably think about more seriously. 

Briss - good to hear you got some good Bding in this month. Tessjs, I relate to the stress you're feeling, although it might be slightly different for me because I have a child already. I feel a lot of urgency about getting a #2 though...been trying for the past year and a half (had a mc in 2011) and sometimes it seems like it'll never happen. My age and time running out and DH being uncooperative with BD really makes me anxious and stressed out. Right now I feel like AF will be here in 2 days and it just makes me so weary to think of trying to coordinate everything again for next month. I'm tired of drinking the grapefruit juice, tired of trying to get DH to Bd at the right itme, tired of waiting for O and AF and being disappointed when AF shows. :nope: Sigh! This ttc journey can be so exhausting! Especially when the OH's don't cooperate!


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## nobump

Decided it takes two of us, DH can't always work on demand... so I need to be patient and try new things to help us both... I have a short fuse so not good when I feel I am not getting my own way... good job one of us has a patience..


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## viccat

Zeri said:


> viccat, that's a great question. How would your OH feel about it?

I think he would hit the roof. I think we would have arguments, recriminations, soul searching and a tonne of talking about how WE should change things.

It would be a bit better for a little while, and then we would slide back to how things are at the moment. In the meantime I would lose another few months....

It feels so wrong wrong wrong to do this without his knowledge - but there is a bit of my mind saying "it's been a solution used for many centuries before"

If nothing else, I feel a lot better for actually typing this, and putting the words out there...


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## Suzy_Q

Viccat - I also tried the "not telling him" approach for a few months. Eventually, I felt so guilty I just one day said "I'm officially letting you know I'm no longer on birth control". His response was to cut me off sexually for 6 months! So after no sex life for six months and waiting for him to come around, I just decided I was going to a donor and we broke up. Now, I don't know your situation but my OH and I are NOT married. After going with me to my fertility appointments, he eventually caved and is now my donor and again boyfriend. However, he has kid "issues" and may bale if I do get pregnant. Either way, I get a child which is what I want at this point in my life. I already broke up with him in favor of having a child, if I have to I will do it again. I'm not saying my approach was a good one, just pointing out you are not alone!

Suzy_Q


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## viccat

Slightly different for me, as OH and I have been "trying" for a year now. He agreed, and we used to use condoms, so no secrecy there.

He just doesn't really try. He's always had a low drive though - so i wouldn't say this was due to TTC.


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## Jax41

Ladies, may I join your thread please? It's so hard to find somewhere to talk about this stuff as most DHs, OHs, DBs seem to co-operate :wacko: unfortunately mine doesn't or rather only when it suits him :nope: basically weekday BDing is not on the agenda which I find incredibly hard to cope with.

We, or rather I, have been TTC for 2 years, he has most definitely been NTNP. We together went to my FS appt over Christmas we talked with him about sex, having enough etc and I really, really thought I'd cracked it with DH esp as this was my first clomid cycle too, but no I felt such an idiot that I'd believe he'd change :dohh: ...

I've told DH don't make me hate you for not trying, his reply was no pressure then, sorry you've brought the pressure on yourself mate by making me wait so long, not taking this seriously enough... In all other aspects our marriage is great, he's been fab for me so many times, when my business went bust, when my Dad died and we like doing the same things together, so why is being such a pigheaded selfish b*st*rd over this? :shrug:

I could ramble for hours......sigh.....


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## chickenchaser

Jax41 said:


> Ladies, may I join your thread please? It's so hard to find somewhere to talk about this stuff as most DHs, OHs, DBs seem to co-operate :wacko: unfortunately mine doesn't or rather only when it suits him :nope: basically weekday BDing is not on the agenda which I find incredibly hard to cope with.
> 
> We, or rather I, have been TTC for 2 years, he has most definitely been NTNP. We together went to my FS appt over Christmas we talked with him about sex, having enough etc and I really, really thought I'd cracked it with DH esp as this was my first clomid cycle too, but no I felt such an idiot that I'd believe he'd change :dohh: ...
> 
> I've told DH don't make me hate you for not trying, his reply was no pressure then, sorry you've brought the pressure on yourself mate by making me wait so long, not taking this seriously enough... In all other aspects our marriage is great, he's been fab for me so many times, when my business went bust, when my Dad died and we like doing the same things together, so why is being such a pigheaded selfish b*st*rd over this? :shrug:
> 
> I could ramble for hours......sigh.....

I could have writen this post a few months ago, You can work it out. It is hard and take a lot of soul searching for you both, but it is possible. I really hope you work things out. :hugs:


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## Jax41

chickenchaser said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> Ladies, may I join your thread please? It's so hard to find somewhere to talk about this stuff as most DHs, OHs, DBs seem to co-operate :wacko: unfortunately mine doesn't or rather only when it suits him :nope: basically weekday BDing is not on the agenda which I find incredibly hard to cope with.
> 
> We, or rather I, have been TTC for 2 years, he has most definitely been NTNP. We together went to my FS appt over Christmas we talked with him about sex, having enough etc and I really, really thought I'd cracked it with DH esp as this was my first clomid cycle too, but no I felt such an idiot that I'd believe he'd change :dohh: ...
> 
> I've told DH don't make me hate you for not trying, his reply was no pressure then, sorry you've brought the pressure on yourself mate by making me wait so long, not taking this seriously enough... In all other aspects our marriage is great, he's been fab for me so many times, when my business went bust, when my Dad died and we like doing the same things together, so why is being such a pigheaded selfish b*st*rd over this? :shrug:
> 
> I could ramble for hours......sigh.....
> 
> I could have writen this post a few months ago, You can work it out. It is hard and take a lot of soul searching for you both, but it is possible. I really hope you work things out. :hugs:Click to expand...

Thanks chickenchaser :hugs: that really helps as TTC and his attitude to it is making me forget all the good stuff about us and with that fearful for our future if it's childless...


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## alison29

I feel your pain Jax you are def not alone.


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## lexus15

Apologies for not posting lately but I couldn't face it. Nothing has changed in my situation, this cycle has passed & we didn't dtd at all AND once again I feel like a failure. I get so angry/ frustrated that if it was possible I would hit him!

I'm seriously considering my relationship with my oh..the whole relationship is one sided with me giving & him taking all the time. As well as not wanting me/dtd he's not very loving which I could have compensated for his lack of trying. I've been thinking about actually asking him for a break but I know that he has nowhere to stay with no money.

Ladies those of you that CAN please remain positive as your relationship doesn't have to be like mine.
:hugs:


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## Zeri

Jax41 said:


> Ladies, may I join your thread please? It's so hard to find somewhere to talk about this stuff as most DHs, OHs, DBs seem to co-operate :wacko: unfortunately mine doesn't or rather only when it suits him :nope: basically weekday BDing is not on the agenda which I find incredibly hard to cope with.
> 
> We, or rather I, have been TTC for 2 years, he has most definitely been NTNP. We together went to my FS appt over Christmas we talked with him about sex, having enough etc and I really, really thought I'd cracked it with DH esp as this was my first clomid cycle too, but no I felt such an idiot that I'd believe he'd change :dohh: ...
> 
> I've told DH don't make me hate you for not trying, his reply was no pressure then, sorry you've brought the pressure on yourself mate by making me wait so long, not taking this seriously enough... In all other aspects our marriage is great, he's been fab for me so many times, when my business went bust, when my Dad died and we like doing the same things together, so why is being such a pigheaded selfish b*st*rd over this? :shrug:
> 
> I could ramble for hours......sigh.....

Do you think he's just being selfish, Jax, or that he has a low testosterone/libido issue? Or maybe the psychological pressure's getting to him? I'm sorry you're not getting through to him. TTC is really frustrating when one partner isn't cooperating like you want them too. I feel your pain...I think my DH's testosterone is low, which iis why he doesn't feel like Bding a lot. I've also been TTC for the past year and a half, but he's definitely NTNP. I don't share anything with him about my cycles, so that he doesn't get stressed/pressured by it. 

Do you think your DH would benefit from libido-boosting supplements? Like Maca, Horny Goat Weed, L'Arginine etc..?


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## Zeri

lexus15 said:


> Apologies for not posting lately but I couldn't face it. Nothing has changed in my situation, this cycle has passed & we didn't dtd at all AND once again I feel like a failure. I get so angry/ frustrated that if it was possible I would hit him!
> 
> I'm seriously considering my relationship with my oh..the whole relationship is one sided with me giving & him taking all the time. As well as not wanting me/dtd he's not very loving which I could have compensated for his lack of trying. I've been thinking about actually asking him for a break but I know that he has nowhere to stay with no money.
> 
> Ladies those of you that CAN please remain positive as your relationship doesn't have to be like mine.
> :hugs:

I'm sorry, lexus. What a frustrating situation! I can understand you wanting a break but I guess it would be difficult if he doesn't have a place to go. How do you think he would react to that? Do you think it would make him try a little harder, and 'give' a little more?

DH and I Bd'ed a grand total of 2 times this cycle. It's really starting to make me feel so rejected...like he's not into me sexually...even though I'm trying not to take it personally. I feel your pain. It's bad enough to feel that rejected when not ttc, but when you're ttc and not getting ANY Bd it's even more frustrating!!


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## viccat

Zeri - I often feel the same way - so rejected, and not particularly attractive any more. It really is killing our relationship :nope: Sometimes I wonder if he would be happier living with a friend, or his brother.

lexus15 - sorry to hear you are feeling so low. It sounds as if your relationship might be one sided financially too? If so, my heart goes out to you, in trying to remain positive about life and love.


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## Briss

lexus15 said:


> Apologies for not posting lately but I couldn't face it. Nothing has changed in my situation, this cycle has passed & we didn't dtd at all AND once again I feel like a failure. I get so angry/ frustrated that if it was possible I would hit him!
> 
> I'm seriously considering my relationship with my oh..the whole relationship is one sided with me giving & him taking all the time. As well as not wanting me/dtd he's not very loving which I could have compensated for his lack of trying. I've been thinking about actually asking him for a break but I know that he has nowhere to stay with no money.
> 
> Ladies those of you that CAN please remain positive as your relationship doesn't have to be like mine.
> :hugs:

lexus, I am so sorry your DH is treating you this way, it's so hard to understand these men. When my DH rejects my advances all sort of things come into my head, sometimes I even think what if he is having an affair or something, it's really hard month after month. We've discussed divorce so many times already but then sometimes I see that he's just not that sexual, if he had his way we would probably BD 1-2 times a year :(


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## tessjs

i just feel the same as you ladies we BD'd a total of 2 time in jan as well..not pregnant just got AF..he just has such a low drive and if he is interetsed its at the wrong and most unlikely time..how did everybody else go in my parents generation I mean I;m conviced the Gen Y and Gen X gen of men are just hopeless... Not man enough.... its crazy:(

You would think newly or almost newly married still and we would of been going crazy but alas it seems all that was done before we got married:(


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## Jax41

Lexus, Viccat, Briss, Zeri :hugs::hugs: what a bunch we are, just as well we have each other :flower: I so totally understand all of your feelings as I have them too...

Zeri, yes I have wondered about low testoterone too after reading an article about it and yes DH can be selfish together with a good dose of 'can't be bothered'. He admits he's like it but can't seem to help himself? Supplements pah! I've tried and tried to get him to take them, even threatened to hide them in his food :winkwink: but he refuses :growlmad: Hopeless! :dohh:

Lexus :hugs: I know totally how you feel on this one. I think TTC makes you forget the good things about your relationship, esp with an unco-operative partner and only highlights all the stuff that totally p's you off and upsets you. With DH letting me down over TTC I have totally thought about our future together and have told him so. I didn't threaten leaving/divorce but I did say to him that if he doesn't at least try with me then I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about a childless future with him (esp as he has 3 and a grand-daughter from first time round...). I left him with that thought to mull over... But if you're feeling in your guts that your relationship is not good it a difficult decision to make when you feel your clock ticking and will there be time to find someone else that you would want to have children with :shrug: One friend said to me that having a child is more important than the man, that a child will be her family in the future whereas guys just let you down, so she's going it alone...

Briss, I've thought the affair thing too, if he doesn't want it with me he must be getting it elsewhere :shrug:

All I can say is that if I never get to be a Mum then matter of fact I'm going to have to accept it. But if I haven't tried, or rather if DH doesn't care enough about me and my feelings to be committed to try with me then I'm not sure I'll find that so easy to accept and my thoughts around that and him are a bit dangerous....

Big hugs :hugs: and love to all of you 
Jax
xXx


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## Zeri

Sigh.... I wonder if this is how men are generally when they get to their late 30's/early 40's??? Or maybe it's just a subset of men....because there are a lot of men in their 40/50's with high sex drives too. :shrug:

Whatever it is, as a 36-year old woman, I'm not comfortable with BD just 2 times a month. My sex drive isn't the highest either (and I'm working on that), but It just doesn't feel right or normal for our sex life to be so nonexistent at this stage. 

AF just came for me :-(, and so I'm thinking of a plan for this month to improve the sex life and also give us a chance at ttc. Here's what I have so far:

1) Order more opks to track more fertile time - DONE
2) Keep taking Maca (for sex drive) and encourage DH to take the Horny Goat Weed (he said he doesn't feel any different taking them...:wacko:)
3) Continue grapefruit juice and other supplements
4) Initiate BD at least once a week (that's not too much to ask, IS IT???? :growlmad:) whether or not I feel like it, on either weekday or weekend... to get DH and me into the practice of somewhat-regular BD. Tell him I'm not happy with us becoming roommates etc.
5) Firmly initiate BD for day of positive opk or day after
6) Try to spice up the love-making, e.g different positions, foreplay etc.
7) Pay greater attention to grooming (nailpolish, nightime wear etc) to enhance the appeal...:blush:(not sure how much that will help, but hey...)
8) Try to improve the intimacy in our relationship in general
9) Continue to be grateful for the good things in my life

Whew! I think that's about it. Sounds like a lot of work. :wacko: If DH would cooperate this would be sooo much easier. I wish I could just tell him when to BD and he would do it. It's just so stressful doing this all by myself, with no guarantee any of it is going to work... :shrug:

But anyway, that's my plan for this cycle. It makes me feel better to have a plan, although I'm still anxious about the workability of it in general. 

Anybody else want to add one?


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## Jax41

Nice plan Zeri, I like it :thumbup:

I don't think it's too much to ask to BD once a week, perfectly acceptable to me and I understand what you mean about not liking being in a relationship with little or no intimacy, like you say might as well be lodgers. Know what, I'm sure I read somewhere that when you stop doing something then your mind stops thinking about it i.e. doesn't need it anymore and I'm sure sex could fall into this...

How about, and I know this is a hard one when we want to punch them in the face, just treating them kindly, not that I don't think you do, but I really believe in treat someone how you would like to be treated yourself. I'm not saying let them get away with bad behaviour but....to get a BD last night I had to suffer, football, football and....yes more football. Normally I'd have moaned like stink, esp as it wasn't even his team playing :growlmad:, but I thought chill Jax, just be nice....got one in the bag for it :winkwink:


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## Zeri

That's great, Jax! Are you in your fertile period now? I would've wanted to moan about the football too, but glad it worked out well for you in the end! :winkwink: Treating him kindly is definitely a good point. Sometimes DH tries to be playful and affectionate with me (he is very affectionate in general) and I push him away because I'm doing something or because I'm not in the mood to be playful, which isn't nice...:blush: I guess I can't be dismissive and expect him to just switch on the love-making when I need him to. So I can definitely work on improving that too. On a related point, DH mentioned sometime ago that I seem 'preoccupied' sometimes... which I'm sure is true, because I'm usually thinking about waiting to ovulate or whether or not I'll get AF or a BFP! :dohh: Have to work on that too.


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## Jax41

Zeri, I know it's hard when you're not in the mood but I guess it also works both ways, so if he wants to play then see if you can take it further - good luck!!! :flower:


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## tessjs

I for one think even after just for months of marriage for me.our love life has gone down hill fast I remember when we were dating how much he couldn;t keep his hands off me and now its like we're roomates. How much bd'ing we would on sunday nights and during the week..urgh we were at it like rabbits.Even last year in June we had a wild weekend once and since then its just dramatically drifted downwards:( I think I was under the impression naive as i am that you could do it at anytime and get preggos i didn't realise what a small window you actually have... 
 
OMG its changed its so depressing and that was only in 2011 that we would have wild weekends together..i guess we weren't living together at the time either though...

I am so depressed today, he seems so zoned out on me..its not fertile time but I just feel annoyed and let down constantly by him...like he doesn't care...or is jaded

wow ist been a bad week.To make matters worse my AF isn't acting properly will have to seek help.Nobody wants to listen to me and talk with me...its horrible not even my mum..who is too old to care.

I just crying as i write this as Its so hard and I have nobody to help me:(


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## Zeri

I'm sorry you're feeling down, tessjs. We're all here to listen to and support you. Most of us in year are going through the same thing, so if it's anybody who knows how you feel or can relate in some way, it's us!! :flower: I'm sorry things your sex life has changed so dramatically. I don't know if it's something most married/living-together couples go through... maybe the familiarity of married sex leads to taken each other for granted. I've been thinking about this too. DH and I were never like rabbits at all...but sometimes I think that the urgency gets lower when you know the sex is there whenever you need it, and maybe if you've been doing it for a while it all becomes too familiar, I don't know.:shrug: I'm going through the same thing and sometimes I wonder if DH is bored by me/our sex or something. It's definitely not the most pleasant feeling to have. Maybe that's not the case for you and your DH, though, it sounds like your DH definitely had the hots for you at one point. MY DH was never like that. Do you think he might be feeling pressured/demotivated by your urgency when it comes to ttc?


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## lexus15

Sharing this part of ttc has not been easy & I appreciate the words of encouragement & support given from you all on this thread..TBH when I started it, I thought that no one would understand what I was going through but how wrong was I? :hugs:

Regardless of what happens in our relationships with our blokes, I am glad that we have been able to vent our anger, cry our tears & laugh when possible. Thank you!:hugs:


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## lexus15

Briss
lexus said:


> Hey Briss, wanted to ask how long has your hubby been on the Arginine before you noticed a change in his sex drive? How many capsules does he take a day? I'm not giving up without a fight, even if that means I have to buy Arginine & sneak them into his food!:winkwink:


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## lexus15

Zeri said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> Ladies, may I join your thread please? It's so hard to find somewhere to talk about this stuff as most DHs, OHs, DBs seem to co-operate :wacko: unfortunately mine doesn't or rather only when it suits him :nope: basically weekday BDing is not on the agenda which I find incredibly hard to cope with.
> 
> We, or rather I, have been TTC for 2 years, he has most definitely been NTNP. We together went to my FS appt over Christmas we talked with him about sex, having enough etc and I really, really thought I'd cracked it with DH esp as this was my first clomid cycle too, but no I felt such an idiot that I'd believe he'd change :dohh: ...
> 
> I've told DH don't make me hate you for not trying, his reply was no pressure then, sorry you've brought the pressure on yourself mate by making me wait so long, not taking this seriously enough... In all other aspects our marriage is great, he's been fab for me so many times, when my business went bust, when my Dad died and we like doing the same things together, so why is being such a pigheaded selfish b*st*rd over this? :shrug:
> 
> I could ramble for hours......sigh.....
> 
> Do you think he's just being selfish, Jax, or that he has a low testosterone/libido issue? Or maybe the psychological pressure's getting to him? I'm sorry you're not getting through to him. TTC is really frustrating when one partner isn't cooperating like you want them too. I feel your pain...I think my DH's testosterone is low, which iis why he doesn't feel like Bding a lot. I've also been TTC for the past year and a half, but he's definitely NTNP. I don't share anything with him about my cycles, so that he doesn't get stressed/pressured by it.
> 
> Do you think your DH would benefit from libido-boosting supplements? Like Maca, Horny Goat Weed, L'Arginine etc..?Click to expand...

At my last check up appt with a new fs to talk about IVF, I mentioned to him about OH's low sex drive & not wanting to dtd & whether he had low T & could take anything to improve it. He stated that although increasing T through hormones could put him in the mood it would actually damage the sperm:nope:

I'm going to buy Arginine asap, sneakily put it in his food (he just about takes his Wellman every other day) & fingers crossed see an improvement in his sex drive & us dtd before our IVF appt in April.:hugs:


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## viccat

Jax41 said:


> All I can say is that if I never get to be a Mum then matter of fact I'm going to have to accept it. But if I haven't tried, or rather if DH doesn't care enough about me and my feelings to be committed to try with me then I'm not sure I'll find that so easy to accept and my thoughts around that and him are a bit dangerous....

That's the bit I struggle with. I _think_ that I would be so much more supportive if my hubby was trying really hard, and together we were failing to conceive. Perhaps I am in la-la land though - maybe I would be stressing about something else instead, like what he was doing to impact his fertility?



Zeri said:


> Anybody else want to add one?

How about either meditate, or laugh? Both of those add feel good hormones and help you bond with the hubby - especially the laughter. Go to the cinema and see a comedy together? :)



Jax41 said:


> How about, and I know this is a hard one when we want to punch them in the face, just treating them kindly, not that I don't think you do, but I really believe in treat someone how you would like to be treated yourself. I'm not saying let them get away with bad behaviour but....to get a BD last night I had to suffer, football, football and....yes more football. Normally I'd have moaned like stink, esp as it wasn't even his team playing :growlmad:, but I thought chill Jax, just be nice....got one in the bag for it :winkwink:

Good point well made Jax - I need to be mindful of this. I don't ask much of my hubby, but I am guilty of passive agressive grumping at times. "You are as happy as you decide to be" is my new mantra. Right now, I'm trying to be attentive and interested in the setting up of the new Apple iMac...... :haha: (and not being grumpy because he can find the energy to stay up late to do that, but never for making love....)



tessjs said:


> wow ist been a bad week.To make matters worse my AF isn't acting properly will have to seek help.Nobody wants to listen to me and talk with me...its horrible not even my mum..who is too old to care.
> 
> I just crying as i write this as Its so hard and I have nobody to help me:(

Awwwwww tess :hugs: you sound so low sweety. Would it help to tell us about what you think is going wrong with AF? I get panicky too, and assume every change means something sinister, so hopefully it's nothing serious. I started this journey thinking I was super-fertile, now i am convinced I'm developing PCOS, have got a prolapse and am entering early menopause..... I'd laugh, but sometimes it aint funny.


----------



## tessjs

viccat said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> All I can say is that if I never get to be a Mum then matter of fact I'm going to have to accept it. But if I haven't tried, or rather if DH doesn't care enough about me and my feelings to be committed to try with me then I'm not sure I'll find that so easy to accept and my thoughts around that and him are a bit dangerous....
> 
> That's the bit I struggle with. I _think_ that I would be so much more supportive if my hubby was trying really hard, and together we were failing to conceive. Perhaps I am in la-la land though - maybe I would be stressing about something else instead, like what he was doing to impact his fertility?
> 
> 
> 
> Zeri said:
> 
> 
> Anybody else want to add one?Click to expand...
> 
> How about either meditate, or laugh? Both of those add feel good hormones and help you bond with the hubby - especially the laughter. Go to the cinema and see a comedy together? :)
> 
> 
> 
> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> How about, and I know this is a hard one when we want to punch them in the face, just treating them kindly, not that I don't think you do, but I really believe in treat someone how you would like to be treated yourself. I'm not saying let them get away with bad behaviour but....to get a BD last night I had to suffer, football, football and....yes more football. Normally I'd have moaned like stink, esp as it wasn't even his team playing :growlmad:, but I thought chill Jax, just be nice....got one in the bag for it :winkwink:Click to expand...
> 
> Good point well made Jax - I need to be mindful of this. I don't ask much of my hubby, but I am guilty of passive agressive grumping at times. "You are as happy as you decide to be" is my new mantra. Right now, I'm trying to be attentive and interested in the setting up of the new Apple iMac...... :haha: (and not being grumpy because he can find the energy to stay up late to do that, but never for making love....)
> 
> 
> 
> tessjs said:
> 
> 
> wow ist been a bad week.To make matters worse my AF isn't acting properly will have to seek help.Nobody wants to listen to me and talk with me...its horrible not even my mum..who is too old to care.
> 
> I just crying as i write this as Its so hard and I have nobody to help me:(Click to expand...
> 
> Awwwwww tess :hugs: you sound so low sweety. Would it help to tell us about what you think is going wrong with AF? I get panicky too, and assume every change means something sinister, so hopefully it's nothing serious. I started this journey thinking I was super-fertile, now i am convinced I'm developing PCOS, have got a prolapse and am entering early menopause..... I'd laugh, but sometimes it aint funny.Click to expand...

AF seems out of whack.Try having one day of a flow and then its not blood (sorry TMI) i guess thats what you get for feeding yourself BC for 20 plus years..i mean what did i really think was going to happen..Sometimes I Hate myself so much....the Bc was only ever for skin issues which by the way I still have....


----------



## Briss

lexus15 said:


> Briss
> lexus said:
> 
> 
> Hey Briss, wanted to ask how long has your hubby been on the Arginine before you noticed a change in his sex drive? How many capsules does he take a day? I'm not giving up without a fight, even if that means I have to buy Arginine & sneak them into his food!:winkwink:
> 
> it depends on the doses, on high doses the reaction is almost immediate. Basically what I do is I keep my DH on 1 g a day cos arginine has other beneficial qualities for sperm but about a week before i O I increase it to 3 g and also it's advisable that he has 5 g about 45 min before we BD but it's hard to time it like that, still I try. last Christmas i anded up giving him about 8 g (which is a lot) but we BD a lot! which never happens these days. this cycle he was just on 3 g and I barely managed to get him to BD twice. on 1 g he does not want to BD at all.
> 
> also do not buy it from H&B, it does not work, I triedClick to expand...


----------



## Briss

lexus15 said:


> Zeri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> Ladies, may I join your thread please? It's so hard to find somewhere to talk about this stuff as most DHs, OHs, DBs seem to co-operate :wacko: unfortunately mine doesn't or rather only when it suits him :nope: basically weekday BDing is not on the agenda which I find incredibly hard to cope with.
> 
> We, or rather I, have been TTC for 2 years, he has most definitely been NTNP. We together went to my FS appt over Christmas we talked with him about sex, having enough etc and I really, really thought I'd cracked it with DH esp as this was my first clomid cycle too, but no I felt such an idiot that I'd believe he'd change :dohh: ...
> 
> I've told DH don't make me hate you for not trying, his reply was no pressure then, sorry you've brought the pressure on yourself mate by making me wait so long, not taking this seriously enough... In all other aspects our marriage is great, he's been fab for me so many times, when my business went bust, when my Dad died and we like doing the same things together, so why is being such a pigheaded selfish b*st*rd over this? :shrug:
> 
> I could ramble for hours......sigh.....
> 
> Do you think he's just being selfish, Jax, or that he has a low testosterone/libido issue? Or maybe the psychological pressure's getting to him? I'm sorry you're not getting through to him. TTC is really frustrating when one partner isn't cooperating like you want them too. I feel your pain...I think my DH's testosterone is low, which iis why he doesn't feel like Bding a lot. I've also been TTC for the past year and a half, but he's definitely NTNP. I don't share anything with him about my cycles, so that he doesn't get stressed/pressured by it.
> 
> Do you think your DH would benefit from libido-boosting supplements? Like Maca, Horny Goat Weed, L'Arginine etc..?Click to expand...
> 
> At my last check up appt with a new fs to talk about IVF, I mentioned to him about OH's low sex drive & not wanting to dtd & whether he had low T & could take anything to improve it. He stated that although increasing T through hormones could put him in the mood it would actually damage the sperm:nope:
> 
> I'm going to buy Arginine asap, sneakily put it in his food (he just about takes his Wellman every other day) & fingers crossed see an improvement in his sex drive & us dtd before our IVF appt in April.:hugs:Click to expand...

lexus, I also think my DH has low T levels but the trick is not to inject synthetic Testosterone but to make his body produce his own. for this, i am giving him tribulis and horny goat weed, my DH started to lift weight to build some muscles - the idea is that muscle requires a lot of T so the body is forced to produce more and more. another option is to have more sex but that's somehow off the table :(


----------



## lexus15

Thanks Briss for your info..my OH is a lazy sod & although he has free weights at home he doesn't use them. He thinks because he walks around (to the tube station & back) that it's enough exercise for him!

I'll have a look at the other supplements you mentioned, do you use any brand in particular especially for the Arginine?:hugs:


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## Zeri

lexus, Horny Goat Weed is supposed to be good too. My DH's been taking it on and off - he says he doesn't really feel any effects (although he did reveal he masturbates in the morning sometimes), but people give it good reviews online.


----------



## Briss

lexus15 said:


> Thanks Briss for your info..my OH is a lazy sod & although he has free weights at home he doesn't use them. He thinks because he walks around (to the tube station & back) that it's enough exercise for him!
> 
> I'll have a look at the other supplements you mentioned, do you use any brand in particular especially for the Arginine?:hugs:

that's what I buy https://www.highernature.co.uk:80/ShowProductFamily.aspx?ProductFamilyID=284 it's not cheap though :( I also take it in TWW but in smaller doses


----------



## Briss

Zeri said:


> lexus, Horny Goat Weed is supposed to be good too. My DH's been taking it on and off - he says he doesn't really feel any effects (although he did reveal he masturbates in the morning sometimes), but people give it good reviews online.

where do you buy Horny Goat Weed? I do not think the one I currently have is working. I know it sounds strange but I really want my DH to masturbate... :dohh: any way to get the sperm moving in tww


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## Zeri

Yeah, I hear you, Briss. I was kind of happy when I found out he was masturbating (at least he still has a drive! and good to keep the sperm healthy too), but I don't want him doing it in my fertile time and wasting the spermies! Anwyay, I order mine from a local grocery store where I live (in the Caribbean). It's the Puritan's Pride brand I think it's sold online as well.


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## Briss

Zeri, thanks! I've heard of Puritan's Pride but have not tried it before, will order some off amazon once we run out.


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## charm2mama

Briss said:


> lexus, I also think my DH has low T levels but the trick is not to inject synthetic Testosterone but to make his body produce his own. for this, i am giving him tribulis and horny goat weed, my DH started to lift weight to build some muscles - the idea is that muscle requires a lot of T so the body is forced to produce more and more. another option is to have more sex but that's somehow off the table :(

Briss, so can synthetic T harm semen quality even if the man has issues with low T? I would really like SO to get his T checked to see if we can improve his semen quality as well as his sex drive:) I've read some about using clomid for men. 

I had not seend SO for a little over a month because we were both traveling. I was so upset/hurt when he showed no interest in bding the first night we were "reunited" and fell asleep as soon as his head hit the pillow. Granted he was jet lagged and totally tired...but still. We did make up for it last night :happydance: but it was a bit demoralizing the first night together. AND he said he forgot to take his supplements when he was gone. Absolutely boo!! Now I'm just waiting for the right time to have the "get serious again about the ttc" talk:)


----------



## Briss

Charm, I've been talking to a guy who gives a lot of online advice on sperm issues and he suspected that my DH's low sperm count is a result of low T levels. One of the reasons being - too much beer! apparently beer has this effect on T levels. the advice was absolutely no alcohol. unfortunately my DH cant quite manage to stay away from it :( but that's a whole different venting point... he also recommended various things to increase T levels which in turn will increase sperm count. i thought the easiest solution is to just start taking testosterone but it appears that lots of studies showed that this can affect the sperm and ultimately decrease his own production of T. the best way is to make his body produce more.

My DH did not actually check his T level but I can tell it's low. I just do not know if it's low or terribly low :(

I have heard of clomid and people have great results with it. Our problem is that my FS did not refer us to urologist and only urologist can prescribe it.


----------



## Zeri

Briss said:


> Charm, I've been talking to a guy who gives a lot of online advice on sperm issues and he suspected that my DH's low sperm count is a result of low T levels. One of the reasons being - too much beer! apparently beer has this effect on T levels. the advice was absolutely no alcohol. unfortunately my DH cant quite manage to stay away from it :( but that's a whole different venting point... *he also recommended various things to increase T levels which in turn will increase sperm count*. i thought the easiest solution is to just start taking testosterone but it appears that lots of studies showed that this can affect the sperm and ultimately decrease his own production of T. the best way is to make his body produce more.
> 
> My DH did not actually check his T level but I can tell it's low. I just do not know if it's low or terribly low :(
> 
> I have heard of clomid and people have great results with it. Our problem is that my FS did not refer us to urologist and only urologist can prescribe it.

Curious about what he recommended to increase T levels...do you mean like the supplements we've been talking about?


----------



## Briss

I am going to copy his advice here cos I think it's useful not just for my DH:

re beer and T levels: "No beer at all and I'll explain. Sperm is based on amount of free Testosterone in the testes. Beer while tasty contains what are known as phytoestrogens compounds or plant estrogen which binds the T up. What you need is an extract to raise his T levels up and HornyGoat weed or Tribulis fits the bill. As a man ages his level of T naturally drops and this is the reason possibly for the cause of the drop. Of all the stuff he's taking only Vitamin E has any effect on T levels." "Leave the vitamin E in. It is your morphing vitamin as it prevents or minimizes when used with vitamin C radical attack. Bee pollen especially from grasses has been successfully used by the Swedes as a cure but better put arresting agent against prostate conditions as Prostatitis. Vitamin D has no effect on T levels but is needed to form good DNA in the sperm when the DNA is split. It also is needed for Calcium absorption and the sperm move because of ion engines and the ion is Calcium and Potassium. Fat on a man or woman is an estrogen reservoir meaning it bounds up T. The leaner a man is the better for sperm production. To improve his semen in quality have him drink tomato juice or eat tomato soup everyday.
Now the Goat weed is fine and in the amount 1 capsule/day. Now Tribulis is normally around 650-750 mg/day of standardized extract. The weed grows wild all over the world but the amount of extract varies as to where it was grown so they standardize the amount involved. Another way is to have your husband exercise but only his upper body like shoulders and arms. This will increase T levels also. Going the total route lowers T levels as T is used for muscle repair.
As long as he takes that Zinc and Folic acid his count will increase no matter what he is doing as to diet.
You can leave out the pollen and jelly if you want to."

re BD strategy with low sperm count: "The bedding method is very simple. Every other day during the window with the following modifications. Get some Preseed and use it and keep him hard for at least 30 minutes before he goes boom. Preseed is to protect what you are given, increasing chance of success and the length of arousal increases up to 270% the amount of sperm given to you because of pumping up as compared to the S/A results. So we are increasing the odds of success by the amount given. The long foreplay period also increases the chance of you hitting the clouds which has been shown to help in the process of conception."


----------



## twiggers

x


----------



## Zeri

Awesome Briss! Thanks for copying that! That was extremely helpful! Sounds like that guy knows a lot and is really happy to give the advice too. I'm happy to see him mention the Horny Goat Weed and tomato soup (DH likes that). Very interesting about the beer too...I don't think most men know they're hurting their testosterone/sperm by doing that!! Also, I'd read about fat being an estrogen reservoir and I believe it's true... DH has a pot belly and I believe it's sucking a lot of the mojo out of him... :-( He also said when he exercises his mojo is a lot stronger/erections are harder... he jogs, though, so although the total body route wasn't recommended by your friend it definitely works in his case. I had read that exercising large muscle groups - legs, arms etc - helps with blood circulation which improves erections. Zinc is great for T too. It sounds like your DH is on most of the good stuff, so fx it's having an effect somewhere!

Interesting about the Preseed too. I've been thinking of getting some... Going to look it up on Amazon right now. It totally makes sense that that would help.


----------



## Briss

twiggers, i hear you, cos my DH does not really have that much of a sex drive getting him hard is a tough job, I do not even know what I can do (apart from blowing him which is not recommended during fertile window as it damages sperm), i usually wear sexy underwear and stocking etc, and he sees me naked every day, I guess he is so used to it that it does not excite him any more :( he recently suggested that I buy granny style large white cotton pants from M&S... pervert :) and yes, as soon he gets remotely hard we just press on, no time to wait and "keeping him hard for at least 30 minutes" is a great advice but it's just not going to work, in 30 min he will simply lose interest and go soft... I really need him to come and quite often it does not happen


----------



## Briss

Zeri, we have tried pre seed a few times but so far it did not make a difference for us and my DH hates it cos I have a lot of my own CM and adding more just makes it so wet that DH cant feel much. I still use it at least once a month (hiding it from DH) because pre-seed can change PH balance in your vagina, mine can be quite acidic I think because of all the chocolate I eat (although I did a check with PH sticks and it showed normal levels).

The expert's name is RIch and you can ask him any question on https://www.fertilichat.com/forumdisplay.php?13-Male-Infertility it may take a while for him to respond but he always does. I got more advice from him that our FS, who as I said would not even refer us to urologist! 

Last week i managed to drag my DH to repeat his test. only to find out that they changed the rules and now require prior appointment! so disappointing, cos it took me 2 months to persuade him to come... now the first available appointment is mid February, just checked that it will be my O date so no way I am wasting his sperm on that, will have to change it. 

The facts that after all these vitamins for 6 months I am still not pregnant makes me think that there might be a bigger problem or that the fact that he still drinks beer (much less than before but still) just makes it all a waste...


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## twiggers

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## charm2mama

30 minutes? Wow, how does anyone ever get pregnant?!

Briss, thanks for the information. I guess we can only do the best we can. 

For the preseed, I'm wondering if we could use it after sex with softcup. I've never used preseed but have been thinking about it. But during sex would get too messy. If it helps sperm to swim to the right place, then maybe it would also help after dtd?


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## Briss

i know some women on B&B got pregnant by putting a bit of preseed into a softcup and then getting their DH to "deposit" their semen into it then placed it all in for a few hours. I personally cannot imagine doing that cos i do not see softcups as a vagina/cervix friendly device.

My DH can sometime last quite a while but our problem is that he does not come, he sort of does it for me so I have sex (usually after I threaten to get out naked and have sex with anyone who will have me..., yes, I can get that desperate) so he can get a hard on but not aroused enough to come. and it's not age related he was like that in his 20 but back then it did not seem like a problem as we were not planning a family yet


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Hi Girls :hugs: so thankful that I'm now in the TWW....phew...thought I'd try and keep the momentum going though but nothing over the weekend :nope: never mind not as critical but it would've been a nice.

Briss, thanks :flower: very interesting reading from your chap, particularly regarding the beer which unfortunately mine is a huge fan of as well, has been all his life so apart from telling him to stop bc his wasteline is expanding, which he hates, I don't think he will buy the other reason :growlmad: I also splashed out on some really good men pre-concep supps and so far he has turned his nose up, but I'm going to call his bluff, if you can't reduce your beer then take them!!!!

Twiggers, Briss, I'm sure there's a thread on either the assisted or LTTTC boards about home IUI have you ever thought of trying it? This one girl was going to give it a whirl, to save costs, and there others that commented on it about the success they'd had. They said as long as everything was sterile they could see no problem. Just a thought...:hugs::hugs:

Charm2, I've read about girls inserting softcups after DTD to keep the swimmers in place. Maybe it's worth a try :shrug::hugs:


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## twiggers

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## Zeri

It's great that we can all support each other on this thread. I wish we didn't have these issues to deal with, but at least we know that we're not alone! :flower:

Jax, what day did you get some BD in? Hope you get some good results in the next week and a half!

viccat - thanks for your suggestion earlier. That's a great idea - will try to keep it in mind. 

Was wondering if anybody wanted to add any BD plans of their own as well? So far I'm trying to do everything on my list... will see if it works soon!

twiggers - ugh!! It's sucks that it has to be so much work, doesn't it?:dohh: Did he have the issues even with the Viagra?

Briss - thanks for the link to the fertility guy and for sharing your experience on the preseed. I was wondering about whether it would lessen the sensation or what - ? Hmmm..still thinking about it. I empathize with you about the flagging erections - DH takes a while to come and sometimes he loses his erection before he gets to that point, which is frustrating. I usually just fake an orgasm a few minutes into intercourse..:blush: so that he can just focus on trying to come. It's interesting that your DH has been like that since his 20's. I guess if he's not coming regularly with intercourse it lessens the incentive for him to have sex. ? Is there a medical reason for him (like delayed/retrograde ejaculation) not being able to come? It sounds strange that he would struggle with that in his 20's... It sucks that we have to do so much work to get them to do something that should and does come naturally to most men. Really frustrating. I'm sorry your sperm appt. got changed. It would really be interesting to see if his numbers have changed with all of the supplements he's taking. I should think they must be having a positive effect somewhere. Where are you in your cycle now and how much BD did you get in?


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## Jax41

Hi Zeri, well I'm having to eat humble pie this cycle as actually he's been quite good :thumbup: 3 BD's in the space of 48 hours (CDs 11 & 12), but that was only bc I threw a massive hissy fit as we'd not done it at all since I'd stopped AF and also it was at the weekend, probably didn't do the swimmers any good but I wasn't going to pass up the opportunity :winkwink: and CD15 (a midweek one :thumbup: which is unheard of) I got a strong +OPK but I didn't tell him that, but nothing since :nope: but then I have to be honest I've not pinned him against the wall and threatened him :haha:


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## viccat

Jax41 - really pleased to hear that you've had such a good month. :thumbup:

I'm in the TWW - and keeping my fingers crossed, as we just DTD once this month. Not holding out much hope to be honest, and think they next step is doctors to get us both checked over.


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## Briss

Zeri, we BD twice during the fertile window which is OK I guess, My AF is due end of this week. I am not really sure what's the issue with my DH, he just does not seem to enjoy sex, he sees it more like a duty he owes to me :( I do not know if you ever watched TV series "Big band theory" there is a super smart character there called Sheldon who has no sex drive at all and the idea of having sex seems repulsive to him  that would be my DH why me?


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## lexus15

Briss your a star with the info you are sharing :flower: if as women we can keep informed then we are in a better position to help us achieve our bfp's (fx!). 

What you said re your hubby rings true with my OH. I have diaries that I wrote 15 years ago about the lack of sex between us, in hindsight I should have paid more attention & addressed the problem then:growlmad: I think I thought OH would have improved & that I would eventually have had baby #2, however that isn't the case & because of him it looks like we have to try Ivf. What gets me is that he'll come to the fs appointments, listen to the dr's about dtd often etc but then not implement any of it.

No tww for me as I've had no sex since last month & even then it was only once in Dec..not good:nope: 

Good luck ladies in your tww, I hope to be reading some good news very soon:thumbup:

:hugs:


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## lexus15

Zeri said:


> Yeah, I hear you, Briss. I was kind of happy when I found out he was masturbating (at least he still has a drive! and good to keep the sperm healthy too), but I don't want him doing it in my fertile time and wasting the spermies! Anwyay, I order mine from a local grocery store where I live (in the Caribbean). It's the Puritan's Pride brand I think it's sold online as well.

I wish my OH would masturbate!:blush: He doesn't 'believe' in it & doesn't like porn (so HE says!)..only God & mother nature knows how he's going to produce if we go ahead with ivf in the next several months:wacko: When we tried iui, we had to dtd with him pulling out before he came, that's how bad he is!


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## lexus15

Zeri said:


> lexus, Horny Goat Weed is supposed to be good too. My DH's been taking it on and off - he says he doesn't really feel any effects (although he did reveal he masturbates in the morning sometimes), but people give it good reviews online.

Thanks Zeri, looks like OH will be trying this & Arginine with his dinner after I sneak them in..somehow!:hugs:


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## viccat

lexus15 said:


> Zeri said:
> 
> 
> I wish my OH would masturbate!:blush: He doesn't 'believe' in it & doesn't like porn (so HE says!)..only God & mother nature knows how he's going to produce if we go ahead with ivf in the next several months:wacko: When we tried iui, we had to dtd with him pulling out before he came, that's how bad he is!
> 
> I have wondered this too! My OH says he doesn't masturbate, and doesn't like porn. I'm really open minded and like porn myself, so there is no reason to lie. Everything I've experienced suggests he is telling the truth. Not sure how he's even going to do the tests at the doctors??! :shrug:Click to expand...


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## twiggers

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## Briss

TMI warning: whenever we have to do DH's sperm test, it's a torture! I have to go with him to the room. the whole experience is just awful. other men come on their own or if they come with their ladies they leave them in the waiting area, 10 min and they are done, we spend there about an hour!!! I usually have to blow him but because saliva damages the sperm we have to use one those special condoms that have no lub in them, they are completely dry, can you imagine that in your mouth for 40 min! it really hurts! and it did not even work the second time I had to force him to go through magazines. I felt so embarrassed when we got out cos obviously we created quite a queue


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## twiggers

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## charm2mama

Are we all dating the same man?!?!? My SO also says he does not masturbate and we collected the sperm at home with the sperm friendly condom. I thought he was the only man in the world that does not masturbate. He even actually cannot handle a BJ most of the time. I'm not sure what the hell is wrong with him. Not that I miss the jaw pain or anything. Hopefully he will get over the not masturbating part...if we end up going to any treatment I don't think it will work to collect at home...


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## Briss

charm2mama said:


> Are we all dating the same man?!?!? ...

:rofl::rofl::rofl: LOL I've been thinking the same thing


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

lexus15 said:


> What gets me is that he'll come to the fs appointments, listen to the dr's about dtd often etc but then not implement any of it.

Lexus, welcome to my world :wacko::hugs:


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## Zeri

twiggers - how frustrating that he masturbated during your fertile period!:growlmad: Does he know that that's a no-no during that time, or do you avoid telling him when you're fertile? It's good that he still has a sex drive, though... and at least he was 'up' for it in the morning! :thumbup:

Briss - that's hilarious about 'creating a queue!' I couldn't help laughing when you said that... I'm sure it wasn't funny at the time, though... :nope: Ugh, blowing a dry condom for an hour does NOT sound like fun!! The things that we do for ttc!! It really is a lot of work. That's why I wish we could all get pregnant so that we could take a break from all of this stress. 

DH and haven't Bded for about 3 weeks. I'm hoping he would be up for a weekday BDing sometime this week. He's usually tired in the evenings...but restricting BD to the weekends just isn't going to work right now. I think I'll probably O sometime during next week so he's to get into the practice now. :wacko:


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## Jax41

Briss :hugs::hugs: that situation can't be easy at all. This might be a suggestion coming out of my a** but would your DH consider hypnotherapy to get over his feelings or lack of feelings about sex?

Twiggers, so glad you got one in the end :winkwink:

Zeri, this is exactly the same problem that we have no weekday BDs :nope:. I've told DH we have to do it at least once, gotta keep 'em fresh :thumbup:

:hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## twiggers

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## Briss

I am trying to get my DH to go for acupuncture but he considers it a type of voodoo along with hypnotherapy. He is trying though to build some muscles which should help with T levels and ultimately sex drive and most importantly sperm count, it's just taking so long


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> I am trying to get my DH to go for acupuncture but he considers it a type of voodoo along with hypnotherapy. He is trying though to build some muscles which should help with T levels and ultimately sex drive and most importantly sperm count, it's just taking so long

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

Have to say even though I wrote it I know that my DH would have the exact same feelings - he won't even take supplements bc of that very reason ARRGGHHH!!!


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## Jax41

Twiggers, I get the 'have fun' and we're not 25 anymore thang too :dohh: A friend of my Mum's her daughter (who is the same age as me) is in a new relationship, about 3 years and clearly they're still at it like rabbits as he she had a first LO last year. Mum asked me why's it not like that for you? Err, my DH is older (he has 15 years on the other guy) and we've been together 14 years, we've gone past the first flush unfortunately!!

Have to say our average per month is 3 and that's if I push it otherwise we could go without for months....and months....and months....


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## Zeri

Been checking out you guys' charts. 

Briss - are you planning to test anytime soon? Any strange symptoms?

twiggers - A BD right on O day! Great timing!

Jax - are you at 3 dpo right now?

AFM - CD6. Boring-land. :coffee: I was planning to initiate BD with Dh last night but we had an argument in the evening and I didn't really feel like it afterwards. Plus, while checking the Ipod I saw some porn pages up...so I think he probably masturbated in the morning (he works nights). Wasn't sure what to feel about that. I'm glad he still has a drive, but I hope when it's time for us to BD he's able to...:shrug: I'm feeling like he might be getting so used to the solo-action that he might be losing interest in the real thing, ykwim? Sigh...we'll see!

Is anyone here taking Maca for sex drive? Do you find you build up a tolerance to it as time goes by? I've been taking it for a week and a half and I'm not feeling any different yet. Seemed like it had kicked in more quickly before.


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## Jax41

Zeri - I'm suspect perhaps the solo action is bc they don't have to make an effort to do the real thing for us :shrug:

I'm 8dpo :winkwink: :coffee:


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## twiggers

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## lexus15

Briss said:


> charm2mama said:
> 
> 
> Are we all dating the same man?!?!? ...
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl: LOL I've been thinking the same thingClick to expand...


If not then they ARE related somehow!!:dohh:


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## Zeri

How's everyone doing? 

Sorry about AF, Briss. How're you feeling?

DH and I Bd'ed on CD10 - which was nice after a long stretch (3 1/2 weeks) of nothing. I think my plans of trying to improve the closeness/affection between is working...for the benefit of the relationship on a whole, and also for our sex life. There's another thing I realized that needs to change - I had started sleeping in the separate bedroom a few weeks ago (DH snores a lot) so that I could get some sleep, but I think I'll try to minimize that too, as it adds more to the 'roommate' vibe, which I really don't want right now. I might O this week so I'm going to try to get DH psyched up for another BD soon


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## Briss

Thanks Zeri, pretty gutted about AF, pulling all my energy (not much left to be honest) together for the next cycle. Increasing gradually his arginine and maca intake. We have not BD since my last O :( . Surprisingly he suggested to have sex on Sunday but my AF arrived (obviously!) and sex was the last thing on my mind. Good luck with getting a couple more BD sessions in place before your O!


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## twiggers

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## Zeri

Are you going to POAS early, twiggers?

Briss - gathering up strength to face another cycle isn't easy. :-( I find the longer and longer I ttc, the harder 'AF days' become. I think it's especially hard for us on this board because we have to go through sooo much to get some BD in the fertile window - it's so stressful, compared to other women who have willing partners - that to have to think about going through all of it for another month is just exhausting sometimes. I feel for you. Are you going to wait to do the SA in March?


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## Briss

My DH is due to repeat his test end of Feb, after that I guess we will know what we should do, if there is no improvement in his sperm count then IVF it is. First few days of the cycle are the hardest but then around O is the most stressful time cos getting our DHs to BD requires a lot of dedication and perseverance. been crying a lot last few days which is normal for me, gradually come to accept and find it in me to be hopeful again


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Zeri, twiggers, Briss :hugs::hugs: I hear you sisters :hugs: so not looking forward to next cycle for all the reasons you've mentioned and more!x


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## Zeri

Hugs Briss - I hear you. Sounds like you have a good plan going forward, though.

Jax - where are you in your cycle?

twiggers - Just checked out your chart. LOOK AT THAT RISE!!! Wow! When are you going to POAS????


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Twiggers :happydance: well spotted Zeri, missed that :wacko:

My tickers out :wacko: sorry :blush: I think I'm going to have a longer cycle this time than last by a couple of days so AF will be here tomorrow :thumbup:


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## Zeri

Have you tested, Jax?

twiggers - I was looking at your chart again...I notice that you had 3 positive opks after CD12. Are you sure of when you O'd? The other possibility for the increase, besides the obvious:bfp:...is that you may have O'd later than you thought (like CD16), and that what you're seeing now is an O rise. Anyway, I hope it's not that... If you're sure when you O'd then most likely what you're seeing now is a pregnancy rise!!:dust:


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Hi Zeri, nope I've not tested, been there done that got the disappointment! I know this sounds really dull but I don't anymore unless AF is late so if she's not here by the weekend I maybe tempted :winkwink:


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## Zeri

twiggers said:


> Zeri - Well, I had some O pains on CD14 (and we BDed that morning)....so I was hoping that it was either the CD12 or the CD14. I am really hoping it wasn't as late as CD16 because then we missed it :( I didn't put it on my chart (or maybe it disappeared), but I had a neg OPK on CD16 and so I stopped messing with them.
> 
> I think the + on CD10 was likely an attempt. And I'm hoping the 3 days of positive was me catching the rise, peak, and fall.
> 
> Given that this is cycle #1, I really have no clue when I Oed. I did notice that I was pretty watery up to about Cd 14/15 and now it's gone pretty sticky and dry.
> 
> DH was pretty worn out from the 4 attempts this month.....but next month I am going to try to push him to go one more time. Or we'll try SMEP and I'll really wear him out.
> 
> Ah man....I really hope it wasn't CD16 :( I have no clue about my cycles...but they used to be 28-30 days pre-BCP. So an O on CD16 either means my cycles have gone really long or I have a crap LP.

It's normal for cycles to be a bit 'off' for the first few months after coming up BC, so if you O'd a couple days later than average that would be within the norm for post-BC cycles. I think CD16 is a possibility, especially if you had watery cm up to CD14/15. You would still have a chance, though if you BDed on CD14 - just not as good as if it was the day before O/of O :-() It'll be interesting to see what your temps look over the next few days.


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## twiggers

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## Zeri

It's possible you O'd late on CD15 then, so you definitely still have a chance!


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Hey girls, you all okay? :flower:

So I'm onto Clomid cycle 2 - AF got me bang on time (bloody hell! :growlmad:) so here we go again for more pill popping and chasing my errant husband round the bedroom - I told him to watch out, I got that eyes roll to heaven look (know what I mean?) so I said just do it properly okay for the next 5 cycles and then I'll leave you a lone - wish me luck! :haha:

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

Hi ladies, how's everyone is doing these days?

This cycle was particularly hard, after AF hit me I could not quite bounce back for some time and then I just reached that point where I realised that my DH is holding me back and I might be better off doing it along. So we had that talk with DH and I think he finally realised how important having children is for me and that I am very determined. Basically, he finally agreed to give up beer!!! for 3 month to improve his sperm count and commit to TTC! which means he will take vitamins without complaining, eat properly, no alcohol, blood/sperm tests when asked and obviously BD when required! Happy to report we already BD twice this cycle and I did not have to beg. I am beginning to feel hopeful again


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## Jax41

Oh Briss!! That is absolutely wonderful news, I'm so happy for you buddy! :happydance: When I have those chats with my DH it feels like I've got a BFP already :hugs: Your DH'd better keep his word or else there'll be trouble! :trouble:


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## Briss

Jax, thanks! we had these chats before and this is not the first time when I am threatening to leave him but this time I said it not in the heat of the moment during an argument but very calmly setting out my thoughts quite logically, with almost no emotions and in friendly sort of way so he probably realised that I am serious this time and I thought this through. I am just so happy now because obviously it's all very well to say I am going to be a single mother but if possible I would prefer my child to have a farther. It also means that we are putting off IVF again for a few months but I think It's worth it cos this is the first time he will be completely alcohol free so I am hoping this will make all the difference in the world


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## twiggers

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## Briss

Twiggers, that's the thing it's very difficult to say cos there are so many examples where men drink a lot and yet produce children but I think in our case it's the main issue cos it's beer and it affect testosterone levels which are somehow naturally low in my DH


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Briss - your approach was probably bang on (no tears or tantrums, boys just don't deal with it do they? Well mine certainly doesn't...) and yep made he realise that this is it. Well done you. I just really, really do hope that it all works out for you now. I've had those thoughts too about being a single Mum and no it's not what I'd want either but if your need to be one is stronger than being without then I guess that's the way it has to be :hugs:

Twiggers - can I ask you something really personal and if you don't want to reply I understand? I've noticed from your signature that your DH has two and you have none. That's the same for me, my DH has 3 + a grand-daughter now (that one really hurt!) and I'm really trying hard not to resent the fact that he has kids and I don't, and moreso that he doesn't appear to try and take it seriously enough and help me become a Mum and share that with him. D'you know what I mean? Do you feel that way too? Thanks :hugs:


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## Jax41

...and whilst we're talking booze....it's my DH's downfall too, always has been but I guess in his 20s when he was young and virile it didn't affect his swimmers as much as it may now :shrug: I've asked him, for his general health to stop during the week, but then the weasil just seems to make up for it at the weekend :growlmad: He confesses sometimes it can get out of hand ('I don't want to be that fat saddo at the bar' - well you are!) but he says he enjoys it, helps him relax and unwind after work... I don't think he would ever go teetotal :nope:


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## twiggers

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## Jax41

Thanks Twiggers :hugs: spooky that our DH's kids both have the same ages as well :argh:


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## twiggers

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## lexus15

Hello ladies, i'm glad to hear that everyone is remaining positive this cycle & still trying with those stubborn OH/hubbies of ours! I'm not on cycle day 11, getting ewcm but no bedding so far!

I'm obviously not happy with this but I'm not getting upset like the previous months (not yet anyway!), hopefully with a little persuasion we will dtd as I could do with a good nookie session!!:blush::haha:


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## lexus15

Briss said:


> Hi ladies, how's everyone is doing these days?
> 
> This cycle was particularly hard, after AF hit me I could not quite bounce back for some time and then I just reached that point where I realised that my DH is holding me back and I might be better off doing it along. So we had that talk with DH and I think he finally realised how important having children is for me and that I am very determined. Basically, he finally agreed to give up beer!!! for 3 month to improve his sperm count and commit to TTC! which means he will take vitamins without complaining, eat properly, no alcohol, blood/sperm tests when asked and obviously BD when required! Happy to report we already BD twice this cycle and I did not have to beg. I am beginning to feel hopeful again

That's great Briss that he's willing to try harder & also give up the booze, have finally ordered a few of the supplements that you suggested before & I will be adding them to his dinner so hopefully I won't need to beg for bed either!:winkwink:


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## Briss

Lexus, good luck with the supplements! I hope you will get a few BD sessions before you O, fingers crossed!

Happy Valentine's day to all you lovely ladies!

I think I O yesterday or maybe today but I do not have much hope for this cycle. although we BD enough my hubby was fasting (one more reason for my despair) and I do not expect it did any good to his sperm count which is super low anyway but hopefully he will start eating properly from next week and with no alcohol I am really beginning to raise my hopes for the next few cycles.


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## Jax41

twiggers said:


> His son's birthday is today (turned 23). I guess I do get a little sad that he has the granddaughter and stuff. She's 17 months old now and we Skype with her a lot.

I didn't do very good at all when DH's DS said he and his gf were preg and DH had the worst guilt complex going, we fell out big time and ignored each other for 2 weeks, unheard of for us.... She's 2yrs and 5 months now and really cute, but we don't see a lot of her even though they live close by, they are full time with DH's ex and gf family. It all just rammed home to me that I'd left it all too late :cry:

Never mind, not a lot either of us can do about it can we :shrug: but get on TTCing and get preg ourselves :thumbup:


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## Jax41

Okay so my plan for this cycle is that I'm really *not *going to have a mini meltdown again over O time again which is next week. It just does me and my eggy no good :nope: I don't temp but I do OPK and I've not bought any. I'm off on holiday next week and although DH isn't hopefully he will have a better week work wise. I've not seen him all week, late, late nights.... Did say good job I don't need you for baby making duty, he laughed! His boss is completely in love with his business and although his marriage is down the pan he doesn't seem to think ours isn't :growlmad:

I will be at home, dinner ready on time, no eve's out all chilled and ready to go when he fancies it :thumbup:


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## Jax41

lexus15 said:


> Hello ladies, i'm glad to hear that everyone is remaining positive this cycle & still trying with those stubborn OH/hubbies of ours! I'm not on cycle day 11, getting ewcm but no bedding so far!
> 
> I'm obviously not happy with this but I'm not getting upset like the previous months (not yet anyway!), hopefully with a little persuasion we will dtd as I could do with a good nookie session!!:blush::haha:

Lexus, I know that feeling! :wacko::haha:


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Lexus, good luck with the supplements! I hope you will get a few BD sessions before you O, fingers crossed!
> 
> Happy Valentine's day to all you lovely ladies!
> 
> I think I O yesterday or maybe today but I do not have much hope for this cycle. although we BD enough my hubby was fasting (one more reason for my despair) and I do not expect it did any good to his sperm count which is super low anyway but hopefully he will start eating properly from next week and with no alcohol I am really beginning to raise my hopes for the next few cycles.

Thank you Briss :flower: Happy VD to you too!! :haha::haha:

Reading your post I think you can take some positives from this cycle as it sounds like DH is getting himself ready for proper TTCing i.e getting healthy and you've BD'd more than you usually do - that's a great sign! Things can only get better for hun, I'm getting super excited for you!! :happydance:


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## twiggers

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## Zeri

Hi girls,
Nice to be able to check in with everyone. :flower:

twiggers - I see AF finally arrived. :-( Any clearer idea on when you did O? Hopefully this cycle will be a bit more regular.

Briss - yayyy for your DH giving up beer! I hear beer is especially bad as it leads to an increase in estrogen which is bad for sperm/testosterone in general. So hopefully his numbers will increase once he's off it for a bit. I don't think fasting this week would hurt his sperm much, really. 

lexus- hope you get in some BD before O!

Jax - sounds like you have a good plan this cycle. I find that making things relaxing and stress-free does help a lot overall. Hopefully your DH will be able to come home earlier from work too, so that we won't be too tired to BD.

AFM - Unfortunately this cycle is another bust. :-( DH and I had Bd'ed on CD10 but nothing after that, leading up to O. I wasn't sure when I was going to O because I had ordered some opks and they didn't arrive...so I wasn't even sure when to push DH to BD. He was tired on Thurs and Fri night but on Sat morning I caught him masturbating! :growlmad: He didn't get to finish though because DD had waken up and he had to watch her. I tried to get him to BD on Sat afternoon/night but he said he wasn't in the mood then. :growlmad: And I think I O'd that same night because my ewcm was gone by the next morning. :cry: I felt really bad about it - I can't afford to missing cycles with no chance at all!

Anyway...I'm on vacation next month so I'm hoping we can BD some more. I'm planning to talk to DH about our lack of BD again because it seems like he's only interested in being on the IPod/computer, TV, or masturbating these days....:growlmad::growlmad::growlmad:


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## Briss

Zeri, thanks! unfortunately it's not just fasting he is practically starving himself (nothing but water for over 2 weeks already), he lost so much weight he looks like a bad case of anorexia, his bones started to show. I am really concerned but just hoping he is going to stop this nonsense soon and as he promised will start eating properly and no beer! 

I am sorry you did not manage to get enough BD last cycle, let's hope being on holiday is all it takes for you to get your BFP. so many people are getting pregnant while on holiday or soon after. fingers crossed! it's not bad that he masturbates, during TWW it's even great I think to keep his sperm fresh you only need him for 4-5 days around O really.


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## lexus15

Had nookie last night & I only had to ask OH once!..before this the last time we dtd was on 24th Dec:devil:

Normally his answer to dtd would be 'tomorrow' but last night he said 'ok if you want'.. Who said romance was dead! 

I needed to reconnect with him & put aside ttc & just have sex!!:happydance:

That said I got a peak on cbfm this morning & I may see if he can be persuaded for more, but I know it won't be tonight as he's out:dohh:

Hope you all are doing well:hugs:


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## Briss

lexus15 said:


> Had nookie last night & I only had to ask OH once!..before this the last time we dtd was on 24th Dec:devil:
> 
> Normally his answer to dtd would be 'tomorrow' but last night he said 'ok if you want'.. Who said romance was dead!
> 
> I needed to reconnect with him & put aside ttc & just have sex!!:happydance:
> 
> That said I got a peak on cbfm this morning & I may see if he can be persuaded for more, but I know it won't be tonight as he's out:dohh:
> 
> Hope you all are doing well:hugs:

Lexus, well done :happydance: and the timing is perfect! if you can get one more BD tomorrow (your ovulation probably) you will have a very good chance this cycle. fingers crossed!


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## Karenfla36

can he maybe have low testosterone? my DH did and he never wanted it either, but he knew something was wrong. so he finally went to the doctor. now he has to take Viagra for a bit to get it working again :) we just started trying 2 weeks ago, so we will see.

but maybe that is his issue?


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## Briss

I think low sex drive in men kinda implies low testosterone, is it not? I am trying to get my hubby to do the blood test but I expect it to be on the lower side


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## twiggers

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## Briss

does Viagra help with testosterone levels? does anyone know what's it made of?


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## Zeri

Yeah, I think it just helps dilate the blood vessels in the penis, so that more blood can flow to that area - stimulating an erection. 

My DH's never been tested, but I suspect he has low T - based on what I saw on the symptoms I read on the Internet. Low sex drive, erectile issues, low energy/falling asleep after dinner etc. I think I read that men with pot bellies also are likely to have low T, because fat means higher estrogen, which drives down T levels. My DH definitely also has a bit of a pot belly going on. :-( He really needs to exercise. He said he would start this week but for the last few hours he's been on the couch with the IPod...:growlmad:


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## viccat

Afternoon girls.

Interesting discussion on low testosterone levels. I wonder whether my other half suffers with that, but not many other symptoms match. Well, except he has blood sugar / energy problems - although not diagnosed diabetic, and has no bother getting an erection.

It's totally puzzling :nope:

I'm just about writing this month off *sigh* he's got a terrible cold and is off work ill, so my chances of getting him out of his pyjamas are close to zero. :growlmad:


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## lexus15

Viagra may help get it up but it damages the sperm, well that's what my FS stated when I asked for it for my OH & his lack of sex drive!:shrug:

Like a few of the ladies have previously said, it seems that exercise is the key for our men to naturally increase their low T. Mine's a lazy sod & does a little bit of walking & think that constitutes exercise. What about supplements?

As we only dtd once this month (was glad for the sex as opposed to ttc) so writing this month off.:wacko:


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## Jax41

Hiya, just jumping in here as I too have been concerned about low T levels with my DH but I'm sure I read somewhere that any kind of treatment is not good when TTCing, but surely that doesn't make sense? :shrug::wacko: Ramp the T up and hopefully get the BD's rolling! :thumbup:


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## lexus15

Twiggers, where can I look at the studies? I haven't done any research myself & have taken the word of my FS!

Basically as OH & I are more than likely going to have to try IVF our FS was saying that in his experience of IVF he has seen men who've taken Viagra which caused men to have a reduction in numbers with some being damaged. 

I'd love my OH to take anything & everything if it'll increase his sex drive but not if it's going to hurt his swimmers!


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## Zeri

That's interesting. I didn't know that Viagra damaged sperm either. I've read that other testosterone supplements - like Androgel - lead to low sperm counts too, I think. Seems strange. You would think they would have the opposite effect.

I wonder if herbal supplements for testosterone have an effect on sperm counts? I think Maca is supposed to help with sperm. Not sure about the others.. hmmm


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## Jax41

Girls, can I ask you something really personal here? Is anyone actually enjoying sex at the moment with their OHs, DBs, DHs or am I the only one? I want him to feel all relaxed, sexy and great but when it comes to me, it's just not happening, feeling like after all these years the spark's gone :nope:


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## Zeri

Jax, I don't think you're alone. I enjoy sex some of the time, but I don't usually O during sex - so I usually just focus on the intimacy of it and getting DH to orgasm (especially during the fertile window).

So for the whole week I've been despairing about our lack of intimacy/BD.... we had only Bd'ed on CD10 and nothing after, and I was started to feel really rejected and unattractive in general. Was planning to talk to DH this weekend but he surprised me last night by initiating BD, around 4 in the morning.  Yayyyy! I guess mornings really are best for him. Made me feel better that we Bd'ed.... I felt better about our relationship overall and just desirable again and like a woman, you know? It's amazing how lack of intimacy can really influence one's self-esteem. For me, it does, anyway.


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## Briss

I am very lucky in a way that my sex drive is really high around O so I am still enjoying sex even when we argue and I have to beg for it but after O I do not feel a thing so find it difficult to initiate sex like the other day we needed to BD cos my hubby is due to repeat his test on tuesday and i needed him to refresh his supply 4-5 days before the test but in the end had to go with BJ nothing else worked :(


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## lexus15

I'm still enjoying sex..just don't get enough of it from OH! I don't however enjoy it when I have to ask him as I know he didn't really want to..this in turn makes me think if I'm not enjoying it then I doubt he is..I also worry that he won't come & it will be a waste of my effort trying to get him in the mood.:wacko:

I've started sneaking Horny Goat Weed & Arginine in his dinner for over a week now to increase his sex drive but I haven't seen any improvement yet..am hoping that it will kick in soon & it won't be a waste of money:shrug:

:hugs:


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## viccat

Jax41 said:


> Girls, can I ask you something really personal here? Is anyone actually enjoying sex at the moment with their OHs, DBs, DHs or am I the only one? I want him to feel all relaxed, sexy and great but when it comes to me, it's just not happening, feeling like after all these years the spark's gone :nope:

I understand how you feel Jax. Sex has become so infrequent and fraught with emotional issues, that I am not really enjoying it :( This isn't just about TTC though, and I keep stressing that to my OH - I just want to feel desired!:shrug:


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## lexus15

viccat said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> Girls, can I ask you something really personal here? Is anyone actually enjoying sex at the moment with their OHs, DBs, DHs or am I the only one? I want him to feel all relaxed, sexy and great but when it comes to me, it's just not happening, feeling like after all these years the spark's gone :nope:
> 
> I understand how you feel Jax. Sex has become so infrequent and fraught with emotional issues, that I am not really enjoying it :( This isn't just about TTC though, and I keep stressing that to my OH - I just want to feel desired!:shrug:Click to expand...


Exactly, but our men don't seem to understand this & how it makes us feel :hugs:


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## nobump

I have worked out that if I relax about things then it works out better for OH, if I get annoyed/impatient then things go pear shape of on strike and there is nothing we can do :wacko: now it's just a question of trying to find the time and energy!!


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## Suzy_Q

So I tried everything but got shut out this month. I'm so frustrated I could scream. Oh, and my darling OH is on month 3 of needing to get his semen analysis. I've told him that if he doesn't get the analysis done in this two weeks, I'm moving on to donor sperm. He said we've been fighting and he can't just "turn it off" like I can. Oh, and he said he feels like he's just a penis to me. I work and live with him. We spend every minute of our lives together! He acknowledged he is putting me in a bad position, that I obviously think more of him than he's just a penis, and that getting some :sex: in a 48 hour period a month is not too much to ask. I'm less angry BUT I still may have to go the donor route if he can't get in to get the SA. My amh is less than .16 (US scale). I don't have time for this so I have to move on. Grrrr!


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## twiggers

I'm so sorry Suzy!!!


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## Suzy_Q

Thanks twiggers. I really hope I don't have to go the donor route but I have to do what I have to do. I refuse to lie on my death bed regretting what I did not do! I know, counterfactual thinking but it is what it is (you're developmental psych so I figured you would like the reference).


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## Briss

Suzy, I am sorry. it so reminds me my DH though, he says exactly the same thing i.e. he can't just "turn it off" like I can. when we argue I can say things that i do not mean just to hurt him, it's wrong I know but it just comes out and he cant get over it for months and months. and it affects our sex life. I am constantly thinking about donor sperm but giving my DH another chance because I am beginning to realise that there is my fault in this as well


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## lexus15

Suzy_Q said:


> So I tried everything but got shut out this month. I'm so frustrated I could scream. Oh, and my darling OH is on month 3 of needing to get his semen analysis. I've told him that if he doesn't get the analysis done in this two weeks, I'm moving on to donor sperm. He said we've been fighting and he can't just "turn it off" like I can. Oh, and he said he feels like he's just a penis to me. I work and live with him. We spend every minute of our lives together! He acknowledged he is putting me in a bad position, that I obviously think more of him than he's just a penis, and that getting some :sex: in a 48 hour period a month is not too much to ask. I'm less angry BUT I still may have to go the donor route if he can't get in to get the SA. My amh is less than .16 (US scale). I don't have time for this so I have to move on. Grrrr!

Sorry to hear that your oh is behaving this way, I wish I knew why they behave so negatively with us, they all have a way (with words or their actions) to control the situation & they choose to make us sad/angry by withholding sex especially before we ov.

How does he feel about a donor? Maybe just the thought of it will help him get his act together..stay strong.x :hugs:


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## lexus15

How is everyone? :hugs:

I don't know what is happening this month with me but I've started af 4 days early (cd 24). It's not heavy or painful like normal although there was red blood with small clots on the first day, now it's dark reddy brown :shrug: wondering if it's the dhea I started this month? 

To top it of, I've caught a vomiting & diarrhoea bug & my body is aching all over body, not nice:wacko:


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## viccat

Suzy_Q said:


> So I tried everything but got shut out this month. I'm so frustrated I could scream. Oh, and my darling OH is on month 3 of needing to get his semen analysis. I've told him that if he doesn't get the analysis done in this two weeks, I'm moving on to donor sperm. He said we've been fighting and he can't just "turn it off" like I can. Oh, and he said he feels like he's just a penis to me. I work and live with him. We spend every minute of our lives together! He acknowledged he is putting me in a bad position, that I obviously think more of him than he's just a penis, and that getting some :sex: in a 48 hour period a month is not too much to ask. I'm less angry BUT I still may have to go the donor route if he can't get in to get the SA. My amh is less than .16 (US scale). I don't have time for this so I have to move on. Grrrr!

Suzy, sorry to hear about your struggle. :nope: I really hear your frustration.

AF is just starting for me, which is not a surprise as we did not DTD once this month. OH was very ill (as opposed to sniffly with man flu) so I'm allowing him the excuse this time.

I don't feel I can criticise too hard just yet, as we both need to go to the docs, and I am as guilty as him for not getting around to it. Will put it on the agenda for this month - wish me luck! :flower:

lexus - there could be few different reasons for AF coming early. I'm not sure whether DHEA can do that - does anything come up on a quick google? My cycle length can vary a bit, and if its early, it is often slightly less painful.


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## Jax41

Hi everyone :flower:

Suzy, !"$£$^^&)%*(%£$!!!!!!!, crikey luv I really don't know what to say other than if the situation is really this hopeless then a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do :hugs::hugs::hugs:

Lexus, I know nothing about DHEA but I guess anything that's new could have an affect on your cycle :shrug: I hope the bug has bugga'd off and you're feeling better :hugs:

viccat, good luck with the appts at the Dr's, you've got nothing to lose and I really hope DH goes along with it too if he needs to be tested :hugs::hugs:

Briss? Where are you? Are you okay? Is everything going as DH promised in your world? :hugs::hugs:

Twiggers, no bump hope you're both alright :hugs:

AFM, I'm actually feeling quite good even though I'm waiting for AF (she's due tomorrow).....:coffee: DH just seems different towards me and TTC :thumbup:


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## Briss

Hi ladies,

I am due to O this weekend and no BD so far, was begging last night and nothing and he also said unlikely today - how disappointing! I relaxed on arginine and stupidly stayed with just 1 g because previous months he was so willing. From today I increased it to 3 g and doubled his maca intake. He said he will BD once when my CBFM shows peak but that's not enough is it? I was hoping to get at least 2 BD sessions before O. I am feeding him cooked tomatoes and garlic everyday supposed to improve sperm count


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Hi ladies,
> 
> I am due to O this weekend and no BD so far, was begging last night and nothing and he also said unlikely today - how disappointing! I relaxed on arginine and stupidly stayed with just 1 g because previous months he was so willing. From today I increased it to 3 g and doubled his maca intake. He said he will BD once when my CBFM shows peak but that's not enough is it? I was hoping to get at least 2 BD sessions before O. I am feeding him cooked tomatoes and garlic everyday supposed to improve sperm count

Oh Briss! So his plan is going well then? It's so unfair when they promise you co-operation and understanding and then go back on their word, my DH has done that to me many a cycle and I've told him, you can't play with me like that it's just not fair :growlmad: Well if he's promised you a 'golden one BD' then I'm sure you'll do everything possible to make it a good one :hugs::hugs: 

Have you had another IUI/IVF chat again recently? It just feels that if forcing him to BD is causing more damage to your relationship then maybe the assisted route really would be better all round? :hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

Jax, we are waiting for his SA results and if they are better well at least above 5 million we can try IUI if below then we wont be referred. My Dh is still not keen on the idea of assisted conception so that's even harder then getting him to BD. very frustrating


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax, we are waiting for his SA results and if they are better well at least above 5 million we can try IUI if below then we wont be referred. My Dh is still not keen on the idea of assisted conception so that's even harder then getting him to BD. very frustrating

With the amount of vits you've got him on they should be coming out with pompoms, gosh I so hope so. But surely he can see it would make life so much easier for you both? You're right v frustrating to say the least :hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

I agree the amount of vits is ridiculous but unfortunately he loved his beer and it's only last 4 weeks that he stopped with alcohol completely, but at the same time he decided to do some hard core fasting and was on water (literally) for weeks &#8211; who knows what this could have done to his sperm. I also think that had his sperm count improved I would have probably been pregnant by now. anyway, I should be grateful he is making some positive changes, one step at a time. 

How are you feeling? any promising symptoms?


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## Jax41

Flippin heck that really is hard core fasting, is he eating again now? Yes they're steps in the right direction even though they may not be the one's you want!

I'm feeling 'normal' no change to any other month!! :dohh:


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## Briss

he is eating now but I guess damage has been already done. hopefully things can get better. He's so skinny it's scary but the good news is that he is building some muscles so fingers crossed his T levels will go up together with his sperm count.

actually no symptoms may as well be good news, fingers crossed AF will stay away, keep us posted


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## viccat

Briss said:


> I am feeding him cooked tomatoes and garlic everyday supposed to improve sperm count

Is it sad, that I just read that, and felt really hopeful because we eat a lot of food that includes tomatoes and garlic? :blush:


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## Briss

Viccat, that's great there were some studies that showed increase in sperm count after men eating canned tomato soup every day for 2 weeks.

I totally broke down last night, after everything we have been through I could not believe it he came home and I could smell he'd been drinking beer, this is so upsetting! he also refused to BD (which usually happens when he is not sober). I made him BD in the end but neither of us was in the mood and we are not on speaking terms. I just do not think I can take it any more, these ups and downs are unbearable and so damaging to my health and our relationship. how can he not see what he is doing?


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Viccat, that's great there were some studies that showed increase in sperm count after men eating canned tomato soup every day for 2 weeks.
> 
> I totally broke down last night, after everything we have been through I could not believe it he came home and I could smell he'd been drinking beer, this is so upsetting! he also refused to BD (which usually happens when he is not sober). I made him BD in the end but neither of us was in the mood and we are not on speaking terms. I just do not think I can take it any more, these ups and downs are unbearable and so damaging to my health and our relationship. how can he not see what he is doing?

Briss :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: I could absolutely scream and sob with you. Listen, you sound a great planner, how about just finding out about the assisted routes available to you and when you've got all the facts and figures you can sit down, present the options to him and then move forward, dare I say it with or without him. I'm so worried for you about your relationship and all the stress. It's going to be stressful enough as it is once you are preg and then parents, you need to at least take one factor out of the equation here at least i.e. TTC 

Big hugs and lots of luv xXx


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## Briss

Jax, thank you for your support! I really do not know, he swears he only had half pint (which in the scheme of things is not that bad) but still after we talked about it, all his promises and then he knows that I am barely holding up (after TTC for nearly 3 years) hoping that he can improve his count. cant forgive him yet


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## Electricat

Jax41 said:


> With the amount of vits you've got him on they should be coming out with pompoms, gosh I so hope so. But surely he can see it would make life so much easier for you both? You're right v frustrating to say the least :hugs::hugs:

lol


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax, thank you for your support! I really do not know, he swears he only had half pint (which in the scheme of things is not that bad) but still after we talked about it, all his promises and then he knows that I am barely holding up (after TTC for nearly 3 years) hoping that he can improve his count. cant forgive him yet

Always here for you :hugs: and I do know how you feel, majority of the time the broken promises cut me deeper than no baby and I've only just recently told DH this, I think he was quite shocked, esp as I went onto say that I then think to myself do I really want to be with someone who doesn't seem to care, who can mess with my emotions, my future, my baby years like this....

I hope you've managed to have an okay weekend together and also that yesterday wasn't too hard for you :hugs::hugs:


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## viccat

Jax41 said:


> Always here for you :hugs: and I do know how you feel, majority of the time the broken promises cut me deeper than no baby

This +1, although so far for me, the only broken promise is extra BD.

I used to date someone who reverted to smoking while we were together. I explained how much I hated it, so he said "no problem, I stopped before, and it's not as important to me as you are. I'll quit." ....... then continued to smoke and lie that he was doing it! :growlmad:

As Jax said, the broken promise was the worst thing about it all :nope:

AFM - we have a week off before Easter, and I will make sure we go to the doctors that week. It's time I made my actions match my words! Plus, I have reset my CBFM which I had stopped using, and got the sticks to pee on. Back in the TTC saddle for me! :thumbup:


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## Jax41

Viccat, :hugs: for the broken promises they really do suck as our US ladies put it, but :happydance::happydance: for getting back in the TTC saddle :thumbup:

C'mon you can do this!! :happydance::happydance:

:dust::dust::dust::dust:


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## Briss

Jax, thanks for your support! means a lot to me! We managed to BD twice and one more time this morning although it's probably too late now. It was really difficult to get him going, had yet another argument. I think he is also getting tired of this TTC business although he's been in it for less longer than I have. On the positive side, he continues with supplements and exercises, but it's still requires a lot on my part to get it all ready for him and approach him with it at the right time etc. In the end we sort of made up, He's made real progress over the last few months from drinking 5-6 pints a day to 1 pint a month. and his commitment to TTC from about 20% to 60% (my rough estimate) so overall I think we are still on the right track


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## Suzy_Q

Ahh!!! So much going on and I'm an anxious mess. I'm getting injectables versus clomid. I'm terrified of giving myself shots, am nauseous that I have to use a donor and I don't know what this means for my relationship but am proud that regardless of all this fear and the unknown, I'm brave enough to take a deep breath and move forward. 

I'm so glad I'm moving forward and have this opportunity. I will be jealous of all you ladies who will be able to see their OH in the eyes of their children but life has never really been about what is fair. I wish you all the best and just wanted to "close" the chapter on this issue and my TTC journey.

:dust::dust::dust::dust: to everyone of you and I wish you all the best!


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax, thanks for your support! means a lot to me! We managed to BD twice and one more time this morning although it's probably too late now. It was really difficult to get him going, had yet another argument. I think he is also getting tired of this TTC business although he's been in it for less longer than I have. On the positive side, he continues with supplements and exercises, but it's still requires a lot on my part to get it all ready for him and approach him with it at the right time etc. In the end we sort of made up, He's made real progress over the last few months from drinking 5-6 pints a day to 1 pint a month. and his commitment to TTC from about 20% to 60% (my rough estimate) so overall I think we are still on the right track

Hey anytime, you're a special lady and you so deserve your BFP :hugs: Well done for all the BDs buddy, don't know how you manage it when you feel like lynching him! When you lay out all the positives like that then things do look like they're going in the right direction for you and its encouraging to see DH making changes, that at least surely shows that he does care and understand in his own way. For all the little improvements mine has made he still point blank refuses to take any supplements whatsoever - so I've given up can't win that battle, the war's more important :haha::haha:

You never know DH may call time on the TTC business and say I agree this is too much lets go assisted I can't do this anymore so don't lose your war either, try and keep going :hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

re BD it's actually quite funny but around O my sex drive is so high and it's like something clicks in my head that makes me see things differently i.e. people who I know to be revolting under normal circumstances suddenly become so attractive. I never make important decisions before O because I know what's gonna influence my choice&#8230; so even when I am totally mad at hubby I can still BD all day long if only he let me, that is. But after O my senses come back and I can see things clearly 

How's your DH's SA? if it's normal then may be he does not really need to take supplements?


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## viccat

Briss said:


> re BD it's actually quite funny but around O my sex drive is so high and it's like something clicks in my head that makes me see things differently i.e. people who I know to be revolting under normal circumstances suddenly become so attractive. I never make important decisions before O because I know what's gonna influence my choice so even when I am totally mad at hubby I can still BD all day long if only he let me, that is. But after O my senses come back and I can see things clearly

Hahhahaha beautifully put - I am exactly the same! :haha: Heaven help the genuine hotty who crosses my path that particular week each month. Even the fat old finance director looks enticing..... :blush:


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> re BD it's actually quite funny but around O my sex drive is so high and it's like something clicks in my head that makes me see things differently i.e. people who I know to be revolting under normal circumstances suddenly become so attractive. I never make important decisions before O because I know what's gonna influence my choice so even when I am totally mad at hubby I can still BD all day long if only he let me, that is. But after O my senses come back and I can see things clearly
> 
> How's your DH's SA? if it's normal then may be he does not really need to take supplements?

A complete sex pest then :winkwink::haha: Just kidding :hugs: That's great though that you can forget the angst and still DTD :thumbup:

My DH had two SA's done last May and July respectively, first was okay although morph was a bit low and the second was worse :nope:. His Dr didn't seem fazed by it all, my Dr was jumping from one foot to another and insisting he see a Urologist. I know he's older, his diet's a bit rubbish, drinks more than he should but he's got 3 kids from first time round (and they had a few mc's too) so I couldn't quite believe that it was all him and not me so I literally went on my knees to my Dr for a referral and the FS that we saw said the SAs were okay, they could be better but he'd seen far worse and couples still get results. I seriously think our issue is just timing and the run up to O that we don't do it enough when we need to :nope: so I'm going to join you on the sex pest mission this cycle and see what happens :winkwink::hugs:


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## lexus15

It's bloody hard to mentally work out our own emotions on top of dealing with everything we face with our partners/hubbies. Like some of the others I get especially horny around ov & would dtd the whole night. 

Sometimes though I find myself getting irritated by silly little things (he normally would do) that wouldn't annoy me usually. What I don't understand are women's pheromones we're supposed to give off causing my oh to want to jump me, either I dont give off any or my oh cant smell!! (well he does smoke)


----------



## Jax41

You girls all okay? It's quiet on this thread :hugs:


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## Zeri

Hi Jax,
how are you?

I'm still struggling a bit. On the positive side - I think DH is finally getting on board with trying for another baby (officially -we were kind of NTNP before, well he was, I was more ttc) - so I'm hoping we can time BD better going forward. This month I got in one BD the day before O - but I think the sperm was stale as I was being treated for a YI and we had to abstain while I was on the meds. HE took forever to get DH 'up and ready' for that one BD, though :growlmad:...I had to show him porn and everything. (roll eyes). Anyway, he's promised to start exercising, so hopefully that give him a boost in the libido department. 

How's everybody else doing?


----------



## Briss

Hi ladies, not much to report from my side. My DH was off beer for over two months although he did drink about 3 times during this period. We managed to BD around O (with some difficulty) but no sex in TWW :(


----------



## Jax41

Zeri said:


> Hi Jax,
> how are you?
> 
> I'm still struggling a bit. On the positive side - I think DH is finally getting on board with trying for another baby (officially -we were kind of NTNP before, well he was, I was more ttc) - so I'm hoping we can time BD better going forward. This month I got in one BD the day before O - but I think the sperm was stale as I was being treated for a YI and we had to abstain while I was on the meds. HE took forever to get DH 'up and ready' for that one BD, though :growlmad:...I had to show him porn and everything. (roll eyes). Anyway, he's promised to start exercising, so hopefully that give him a boost in the libido department.
> 
> How's everybody else doing?

Zeri, :hugs: our stories are so similar, DH NTNP, me full on TTC, him now getting it and 'we're trying'. Trying? I've been bloody trying for the last 2 years mate! But at least like you say he's finally getting it with 'we have to do it now' and he's doing it rather than making up excuses.

Don't worry about what you have to do to get him in the mood, we've all done it and if it works then bingo! 

Loads of luv and luck honey x

:dust::dust::dust::dust:


----------



## Jax41

Briss said:


> Hi ladies, not much to report from my side. My DH was off beer for over two months although he did drink about 3 times during this period. We managed to BD around O (with some difficulty) but no sex in TWW :(

Briss :hugs: I don't get anything in the TWW either unless I initiate it, and that's when I'd think he'd really like to do it, no pressure sex, but nuffink :nope: 

I don't have much to report really either, seriously crashed and burned last month :cry: We had good sex, lots of it, all at the right time and I was convinced this had to be my month, but no AF pitched up bang on Q and it's taken me ages to get over the disappointment....so much so that I feel like I can't be bothered at all this cycle which I know will get me nowhere. Am seriously considering having a break for a month next month. We're going away with the family for a week so I need to work my dates out, not much point stressing if we're supposed to be BDing when we're away.

But in other more postive news, my DH has also kicked the daily lager/wine habit. Not down to TTC I hasten to add, he has terrible skin problems (Psoriasis), not to mention what he was doing to other stuff and I think my constantly bringing it up that 'it's really not doing you any good for now and the future' has finally sunk in. You never know I may get some supplements down him too? Wonders will never cease :winkwink:

Lots of luv xXx


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## Briss

Jax, I wont get it even if I initiate it&#8230;. 

I know, AF hits me every time real bad, takes me longer and longer to recover and gather my will to carry on. My Dh says if I am not pregnant by May he goes back to beer because his quality of life and social life suffers :(


----------



## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax, I wont get it even if I initiate it.
> 
> I know, AF hits me every time real bad, takes me longer and longer to recover and gather my will to carry on. My Dh says if I am not pregnant by May he goes back to beer because his quality of life and social life suffers :(

WHAT?! His quality of life/social life suffers? What about you, you're his wife, the whole thing of being married is to make each other happy, be on each other side, not make selfish remarks like this!!:growlmad: Sometimes I really wonder if they have any idea of what being married is all about, I'm not saying lose your identity but.....!! Have to say though if it's any consolation, this is the typical selfish remark I would get from my DH too I am only thankful that he is seeing a result in his skin and so will keep up the good work. Maybe we can have another meaning for D.H.? :winkwink:

What are you going to do after May? Will you cut him out the loop and go assisted?

Big BIG hugs coming your way lovely xXx
:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

I am dreading to think what I'm gonna do after May if he decides to return to beer&#8230;


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## smurfy

Briss said:


> I am dreading to think what I'm gonna do after May if he decides to return to beer

When will he have another SA test? hopefully if he sees improvements he may be more willing. By DH will be having another test in 2 weeks and then again in July. If we have no success then we are going down IVF route, my DH was approx 7m last time round. He has been on vitamin c and vitamin e from the doctor. 

Good luck


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## Briss

I am seeming our FS on 2 May so hopefully she will refer DH for another SA.


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## Zeri

Thx Jax! I 'll be back to write more over the weekend.

Just wanted to pop in and say your chart is looking good, Briss! Isn't today 14 dpo for you? Are you going to test or wait to see if AF shows?


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## Briss

Zeri, I think FF got my O date wrong I definitely O later.


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## alison29

Briss I am sorry about dh, doesn't he know it takes at least 3 months to clean up? My dh is still at the beer and really only seems to really want it when i have PMS and irritable. May 2 is right around the corner.

Hi Jax and Zeri...The worst disappoint happens for me too when i think everything time out right.


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## alison29

Jax does the wine make his psoriasis flare? I just have this patch on my foot and it itches like crazy and is ugly.


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## Zeri

Jax41 said:


> Briss said:
> 
> 
> Hi ladies, not much to report from my side. My DH was off beer for over two months although he did drink about 3 times during this period. We managed to BD around O (with some difficulty) but no sex in TWW :(
> 
> Briss :hugs: I don't get anything in the TWW either unless I initiate it, and that's when I'd think he'd really like to do it, no pressure sex, but nuffink :nope:
> 
> I don't have much to report really either, seriously crashed and burned last month :cry: We had good sex, lots of it, all at the right time and I was convinced this had to be my month, but no AF pitched up bang on Q and it's taken me ages to get over the disappointment....so much so that I feel like I can't be bothered at all this cycle which I know will get me nowhere. Am seriously considering having a break for a month next month. We're going away with the family for a week so I need to work my dates out, not much point stressing if we're supposed to be BDing when we're away.
> 
> But in other more postive news, my DH has also kicked the daily lager/wine habit. Not down to TTC I hasten to add, he has terrible skin problems (Psoriasis), not to mention what he was doing to other stuff and I think my constantly bringing it up that 'it's really not doing you any good for now and the future' has finally sunk in. You never know I may get some supplements down him too? Wonders will never cease :winkwink:
> 
> Lots of luv xXxClick to expand...

Yes, you're right, Jax, our stories do seem similar! I'm sorry AF got you last cycle. It must really hurt when you know you've done all you can to conceive....but still don't. :-( Hopefully your DH kicking the lager/wine habit will help, though? Did he ever have an S/A done? 

Question to all ladies on this board - do your OH's fall asleep on the couch every night? DH is on the couch snoring right now...seems like he's been doing that every night (after dinner) for the last week. I read it's a symptom of low testosterone....wonderful. :-( It totally fits with the low sex drive and weak erections and all though. Ugh... I need to get him some vitamins and make him start exercising... :growlmad: Do any of see any signs of low T in your OH's?


----------



## Briss

AF got me yesterday&#8230;

Zeri, my DH has low testosterone, I got him on supps i.e. tribulis etc and after a few months we did the blood test and his T levels were on the lower side of normal. He thinks that after building up some muscles he notices changes like he is becoming more hairy &#8211; hopefully his T levels are increasing. He does sometimes fall asleep on the sofa while we watch TV (usually when I make him watch something romantic) but I never attributed it to T levels.


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## Jax41

Briss, :hugs: I'm so sorry hun :hugs::hugs: Will your DH do another SA d'you think?

Alison, yes I do think the wine has a serious affect on his skin, he is definitely noticing the difference, hurrah :thumbup: he used do a bottle easily with dinner every eve :dohh: but he his so concerned about his 'appearance', understandably, that he's def sticking to it - good for the little :spermy: too!

Zeri, yes mine does it all the time, but then he does work horrid hours on av 12+ a day driving, but I also think that he could have low T :nope: Yes he had two SAs last year, one better than the other. My Dr freaked over them but his was very relaxed saying it's not gold medal stuff but it's alright. We've not been asked so far to repeat, but maybe my FS will ask him too?


----------



## Briss

Jax, my DH really wants to repeat his SA cos he is curious whether no beer policy had any effect, I am concerned about his running. it's like he gives up one bad thing only to replace it with another. Running is generally great but he runs for 8-10 hours at a time wearing really tight leggings like pants. he says his bits are hurting if runs in anything else and that these pants are specially designed for men but I am still not convinced.


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## Jax41

Is your DH on a road to self distruct? He sounds as if he doesn't like himself very much :nope: 8-10 hours running, wow that's like a full day at work!

I'm out this time round, absolutely no bedroom action over the weekend, just knew it would be a naff cycle, I'm so not in the mood! Know what I mean?


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## Briss

Jax, I am sorry you did not get any BD this weekend. have you considered doing in home insemination sort of thing what I mean it when your DH is too tired for sex but does not mind masturbating &#8211; just use this sperm, you can put it in a soft cup or something like that. I was thinking about it myself but it's easier for me to get my Dh to BD than masturbate&#8230;

You are right about my DH, I do not mind his self destructive tendencies as long as it does not affect his sperm


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax, I am sorry you did not get any BD this weekend. have you considered doing in home insemination sort of thing what I mean it when your DH is too tired for sex but does not mind masturbating &#8211; just use this sperm, you can put it in a soft cup or something like that. I was thinking about it myself but it's easier for me to get my Dh to BD than masturbate&#8230;
> 
> You are right about my DH, I do not mind his self destructive tendencies as long as it does not affect his sperm

I haven't done Briss, I think he would feel that I had completely lost the plot if I went down that route :wacko: I just wish we could have a regular sex life not just time it around O (if I'm lucky) and then nothing else, makes sex feel just like that - sex and nothing more...:nope: maybe we're just too long in the tooth for all this...


----------



## viccat

Hi girls, nice to see that the thread has not completely died - I keep looking in on occasion..... :)



Zeri said:


> Yes, you're right, Jax, our stories do seem similar! I'm sorry AF got you last cycle. It must really hurt when you know you've done all you can to conceive....but still don't. :-( Hopefully your DH kicking the lager/wine habit will help, though? Did he ever have an S/A done?
> 
> Question to all ladies on this board - do your OH's fall asleep on the couch every night? DH is on the couch snoring right now...seems like he's been doing that every night (after dinner) for the last week. I read it's a symptom of low testosterone....wonderful. :-( It totally fits with the low sex drive and weak erections and all though. Ugh... I need to get him some vitamins and make him start exercising... :growlmad: Do any of see any signs of low T in your OH's?

I am pretty convinced my OH has low T, but the only real indicator is not wanting sex much. He doesn't fall asleep in the evenings, but often struggles with lack of energy, and needs more hours sleep each night than me. If anything, I wonder if he is borderline diabetic.



Briss said:


> Jax, my DH really wants to repeat his SA cos he is curious whether no beer policy had any effect, I am concerned about his running. it's like he gives up one bad thing only to replace it with another. Running is generally great but he runs for 8-10 hours at a time wearing really tight leggings like pants. he says his bits are hurting if runs in anything else and that these pants are specially designed for men but I am still not convinced.

8-10 hours?!!! Holy mackerel!!! :wacko:

As for me, well I finally made that first appointment with the doctor. She has referred us straight onto the specialist clinic because of my age. In the meantime, they are going to do the standard blood and sperm tests. OH went for his first appointment today and got the pots to collect samples in. He is a bit quiet about it, but has not complained, and actually seems more cuddly if anything. Fingers crossed it might give him the shove he needs.

I went for my blood tests today, and the blimmin nurse couldn't get any blood out of me!!! :dohh: I've got to go back, more hydrated, and try again on Weds. It's a different nurse, so hopefully I'll get someone more competent! 

Otherwise, we've both joined a gym and are gee'ing eachother along to get fitter. We're both already pretty fit and healthy, which I'm glad for ...... but it means I've got one less possible reason for not conceiving. OH is teetotal, doesn't smoke or do drugs, and walks our dogs at least twice a day. He did however say he had a higher sex drive when he used to weight lift in the past. He was 15 years younger then though, so who knows whether that was the cause?? Actually - thinking about it, I sometimes wonder if he has a low sex drive now *because* of the previous weight lifting hobby? Like his testosterone now is normal, but feel low to him because it used to be much higher? I reckon it definitely used to be, because he still is a rather bulky hairy manly-looking fella :-k

Anyway, at least I feel like we are actually doing SOMETHING at the moment, instead of us both sticking our heads in the sand, and not even discussing this stuff.


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## Jax41

Briss, I got a shag last night!!!! :happydance: So maybe, just maybe all is not lost this cycle :shrug: I can live in hope [-o&lt; or maybe we should rename it torture for two weeks?

Zeri, this'll make you laugh, DH was home early last night, I mean in before me at 4:45pm, I went and got showered (on a promise :winkwink:) changed came back downstairs and there he was :sleep: on the sofa, *before* dinner :dohh: Guess he had to get it in sometime :haha:

Viccat, so pleased to hear that you and DH have a plan *together*, that so helps in this crazy TTC business. I'm sure with both of you onside it's bound to happen for you both soon :flower: Hope they get some blood tomorrow, keep us posted :hugs:


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## lexus15

Hiya ladies, how is everyone? 

Although I haven't posted for a while (felt sorry for myself after receiving blood results from fs..low amh & high fsh) I have been lurking around on a few boards!:winkwink: 

My situation with oh is typically the same, if I'm lucky we manage dtd once a month (like last month) & even though he's on supplements to increase sex drive, they're NOT working! We're moving forward with ivf in July (the dr recommended it due to my low amh) & I'm hoping/praying the supplements I'm taking will help improve my egg quality by then :thumbup:

:hugs:


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## Zeri

sorry to hear about the low amh, lexus. But ivf sounds like a good plan. Will you keep on trying until then or just wait it out? 

viccat - that's great that you're being proactive about things! sounds like your DH is being cooperative too, which helps a lot. 

Briss - sorry about AF.... :-(

Jax - yayy for a BD session! How was it timed with your ovulation? That's funny about your DH falling asleep before dinner. :haha:I think falling asleep or fatigue in general must be a low T sign. Apparently testosterone helps with energy and 'zest for life' or something like that. :thumbup:

AFM - I was telling DH yesterday about a friend of mine who's pregnant with #3. He was like, 'wow, #3..." I said, "Yeah, well they do have sex every night, so it was probably just a matter of time..." He said to me, "Well, YOU can't handle sex every night..." :wacko: :growlmad: So I nicely reminded him of last week Tuesday, when I practically had to beg him for some BD....:dohh::wacko: And the fact there's been nothing since then.

Anyhow, thx everyone for chiming in with the low T stories. I'm really starting to wonder how the low T is affecting our chances - we hardly have sex for one thing, and maybe his sperm count is really low as well? I only seem to get pregnant on Clomid... I'm wondering if that means a problem with his egg or my sperm, or both? :shrug: anyway, I'm going to get some vitamins for DH and encourage him to exercise. Also have a consultation with my gyno on Thurs.


----------



## Briss

Jax, that's great! fingers crossed 

Lexux, I am very sorry the supps did not work for your DH. I also have low AMH and high FSH, so is I think probably majority of over 35.


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## viccat

Well, today's nurse managed to get blood out of me .... should find out the results next week .....

I didn't even think to ask what they are measuring - the doctor said hormones, so I am guessing maybe FSH / AMH. They didn't ask what point I was at in my cycle, so it must be a more general measure.

The paperwork has arrived for the Fertility Clinic appointment too - which for the better/closer one will be July. We have to co-ordinate diaries, but I'm hoping by the time we reach July we don't need to go!


----------



## Juniperjules

Zeri said:


> Yes, I guess it's an age-related thing with guys over 40. I hear about it a lot on these boards. Still, maybe it doesn't have to be this way? I don't know if I"m quite ready for an asexual relationship at age 36. I think supplements can definitely help. It's unfortunate your DH doesn't like taking pills, but yes, maca is sold in powder form as well and can be mixed in foods and drinks, like smoothies. I hear the black maca is especially powerful.
> 
> I'm thinking of ordering some Horny Goat WEed for DH - from reading about it online it helps a lot with libido, but it also can have a few side effects. I'm hoping he would be willing to take it - something really needs to change for the better.

Hi girls, I just started reading this thread & felt the need to chime in. My OH is 44, 45 in a few months.. Our sex life def took a dip in his 40's. we've been together 18yrs, & it was never as non existent as it has been since his 40s hit. He was the total opposite back in the day... 

I put on a fair bit of weight around the same time which didn't help. Like most men he's very visual- might not sound 'PC' when the whole world says 'its wots on the inside that counts'..but I know how I looked for a few years didn't help the cause.. 

We split up/ had a 'break' for about 5 months, and we are back together now. Having the break made us both realise we needed each other too much to stay apart. He was particularly adamant that he wanted me back. He had said to me a few times previously that he felt like maybe just being together so long had lessened the overt need to have sex. I said that was a crock. But I guess an 18 yr relationship can never compete with the first pangs of lust you feel when u first meet someone. 

So we're back together, & he is totally up for BDing around Ov time bcoz he desperately wants us to have a baby. But for the rest of the month, I'm constantly trying to coax him to have sex. Same as some other girls have stated, it's always 'too early, too late, not enough time, something else needs doing' type of thing.. Which then turns me into a paranoid mess!! I annoy the hell out of him asking if he isn't attracted to me?? (have lost all the weight by the way- & look better than I did previously!) or why it is that he always knocks me back?? He always has an answer- he says 'of course I think your sexy, your gorgeous, we'll have sex, just stop talking about it!'... 

So eventually I shut up.. Bcos I feel like I'm making such an issue of it... that it's like the elephant in the room & ill make it worse. I guess I'm lucky that he is happy to perform around Ov time.. But still, it gets to me. I guess I'm just thinking that he's right, after 18yrs there's not much mystery even if you do still think your partner is sexy??? I know he loves me more than anyone else in the world & he wants a family with me.. Maybe I should just be satisfied with that? I know relationships change, & it's never going to be like it was, although when we do actually have sex it's still great.. It's just not very often. 

I just desperately want to get pregnant bcos it will add some joy & spontaneity to our relationship that we both need. 18yrs of only thinking about ourselves, we need someone else to focus all our love, hopes & worries on! : )


----------



## viccat

Juniperjules said:


> Hi girls, I just started reading this thread & felt the need to chime in. My OH is 44, 45 in a few months.. Our sex life def took a dip in his 40's. we've been together 18yrs, & it was never as non existent as it has been since his 40s hit. He was the total opposite back in the day...
> 
> I put on a fair bit of weight around the same time which didn't help. Like most men he's very visual- might not sound 'PC' when the whole world says 'its wots on the inside that counts'..but I know how I looked for a few years didn't help the cause..
> 
> We split up/ had a 'break' for about 5 months, and we are back together now. Having the break made us both realise we needed each other too much to stay apart. He was particularly adamant that he wanted me back. He had said to me a few times previously that he felt like maybe just being together so long had lessened the overt need to have sex. I said that was a crock. But I guess an 18 yr relationship can never compete with the first pangs of lust you feel when u first meet someone.
> 
> So we're back together, & he is totally up for BDing around Ov time bcoz he desperately wants us to have a baby. But for the rest of the month, I'm constantly trying to coax him to have sex. Same as some other girls have stated, it's always 'too early, too late, not enough time, something else needs doing' type of thing.. Which then turns me into a paranoid mess!! I annoy the hell out of him asking if he isn't attracted to me?? (have lost all the weight by the way- & look better than I did previously!) or why it is that he always knocks me back?? He always has an answer- he says 'of course I think your sexy, your gorgeous, we'll have sex, just stop talking about it!'...
> 
> So eventually I shut up.. Bcos I feel like I'm making such an issue of it... that it's like the elephant in the room & ill make it worse. I guess I'm lucky that he is happy to perform around Ov time.. But still, it gets to me. I guess I'm just thinking that he's right, after 18yrs there's not much mystery even if you do still think your partner is sexy??? I know he loves me more than anyone else in the world & he wants a family with me.. Maybe I should just be satisfied with that? I know relationships change, & it's never going to be like it was, although when we do actually have sex it's still great.. It's just not very often.
> 
> I just desperately want to get pregnant bcos it will add some joy & spontaneity to our relationship that we both need. 18yrs of only thinking about ourselves, we need someone else to focus all our love, hopes & worries on! : )

Hi Juniperjules, I totally understand where you are coming from. I get tired of not being made to feel desirable, and wonder whether this is it for the next 30+ years. It sometimes makes me want to leave, but I love everything else about our relationship (okay, except the untidiness!) and him.

It's a tough one, isn't it? Like you, at least he will dtd around ov time, although I hate hate hate having to ask/pester/demand. It just doesn't feel right somehow! :nope:


----------



## Zeri

I think we all can relate, juniperjules! It's great that your OH really wants a baby and is willing to do what it takes, though. That's more than a lot of us on this board can say! I know it's frustrating when you feel like you have to coax him into sex though...and it's hard not to take it personally too. 

I wonder if your OH is just experiencing the age-related decline in testosterone thing. It can be common for men in their 40's - some more than others, though. Is he on any supplements or vitamins? I think that can help - if he's willing to take them, that is. I got Horny Goat Weed and Maca for my DH but he takes them on and off. Maca works well for me. DH is into vitamins so now I'm trying to order some vitamins with some herbal stuff in them to see if that'll work. 

viccat - did you get your results back?


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## Briss

am expecting my PEAk tomorrow, dreading how I am gonna bring it up to my DH and get him to BD...


----------



## Juniperjules

Zeri said:


> I think we all can relate, juniperjules! It's great that your OH really wants a baby and is willing to do what it takes, though. That's more than a lot of us on this board can say! I know it's frustrating when you feel like you have to coax him into sex though...and it's hard not to take it personally too.
> 
> I wonder if your OH is just experiencing the age-related decline in testosterone thing. It can be common for men in their 40's - some more than others, though. Is he on any supplements or vitamins? I think that can help - if he's willing to take them, that is. I got Horny Goat Weed and Maca for my DH but he takes them on and off. Maca works well for me. DH is into vitamins so now I'm trying to order some vitamins with some herbal stuff in them to see if that'll work.
> 
> viccat - did you get your results back?

You could be right about the testosterone thing. He's 45 this year so it's possible. I mean he's fit, slim, healthy, but you can't avoid ageing can you! I do give him Menevit which is a male 'pre-natal' basically. And after reading this thread I've looked into the L-arginine. So far I only seem to be able to find it in a powder form?? Capsules would be better. He'll pretty much swallow whatever I hand to him with a glass of water. I tried horny goat weed once.. I didn't tell him wot it was, just gave it to him. But can't say I noticed any difference. 

He has moments where I see him get a 'glint' in his eye & I notice him checking me out & little longer than normal or he'll comment on a dress or jeans that he likes..or he'll grab me & allude to the fact that we'll 'get busy' later.. But it always seems to me like unless we have the opportunity to make a move right there & then... The moment is lost! It gets too late, friends come over, he wants us to snuggle up & watch a DVD.. Once the moment passes its gone. And when I try & catch that moment when he appears to be keen, there's always something or other stopping us. 

I want to try really hard from this point on NOT to talk about sex so much. Seriously, I was a good little catholic girl : ) I never dreamed that one day I'd be practically hitting him over the head & dragging him into my cave demanding sex!!!! He was ALWAYS the one who initiated, & it was 2-4 times a week. And anywhere, at any time too! He has said to me a few times 'we never used to talk about sex & we did it all the time- so stop talking about it!'.. & I guess maybe I need to think about those words. It does seem like the more negative, begging conversations we have, the worse it is. I suppose it's psychological?? The more you ask a man if there's 'a problem' the more likely it is that a problem might develop?? Bcos suddenly it goes from being a fun thing to being something that your both very conscious of?? Therefore maybe losing the spontaneity & thrill involved??


----------



## Jax41

Briss said:


> am expecting my PEAk tomorrow, dreading how I am gonna bring it up to my DH and get him to BD...

Briss :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: Wish I had the magic words to make it happen naturally but I so know where you're coming from, just want you to know you're not alone :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

Jax, thanks! nothing happened in the morning, fingers crossed we will get there in the evening...


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## Jax41

I've got everything (and I mean everything here!) Xed for you, c'mon law of averages state that this HAS to happen soon for you :hugs::hugs:


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## Jax41

Viccat, I hear you, I'm fed up with feeling undesirable (although I'm told I'm not - then why aren't you jumping my bones then? :growlmad:) and also wonder if this is it forever....like you sometimes it makes me want to leave too, but then sex isn't absolutely everything is it and if you love everything else about your relationship and are well suited then I guess we can't have it all? Why not! :shrug: Keep going love, you'll get there :hugs:

juniperjules, I think it has hard to keep it 'fresh' when you've been together for so long AND esp when you're trying to do it more than you usually would anyway bc of TTC, it ain't easy :dohh: if only I could turn the clock back 10 years when we were at it like :bunny: and we couldn't keep our hands off each other!

Zeri, hope you're okay this cycle :hugs:


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## Zeri

Hope you get some BD in tonight, Briss!

It's really hard, isn't it? The feeling undesirable thing. :-( DH and I Bd'ed two weeks ago and I practically had to beg him for it... and there's been absolutely nothing since then. Yup, that makes me feel reallllly attractive and desirable. I did catch him masturbating early on Saturday morning though, when I was getting ready to go to class.... so I know he still has a bit of a drive...but seems like he feels that way in the mornings when I have to get ready for work or something..and in the night he just can't be bothered. Which results in nothing happening at all. 

Anyone considered giving their OH's a more powerful testosterone supplement? I was reading about one on Amazon yesterday called Testosterone - All Natural Blend with Tribulus. I couldn't find the ingredients, though - but I suspect it might be a herbal blend of stuff, like Tribulus, L'arginine etc. It got good reviews on Amazon for helping with energy/libido. I think DH could do with something like that - not sure how he would feel about taking it though. I think he might be more minded to take the Vitamin Blend with the herbs in it than something that actually says, "testosteone"... cause then that'll make him feel like he really has a problem, you know? (even know he does, lol)

Jax - how's your tww going?


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## Jax41

Hi Zeri, it's going pretty much the same as it always does :dohh: I keep thinking I'm going to see flashing lights and hula dancers warming up to celebrate my BFP, but not just yet....:haha:

If it's any consolation my DH manages far better in the mornings, evenings he can do it, he also can't be bothered :nope:

Briss, how you doing lovely? Thinking about you tonnes xXx


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## Briss

Jax41 said:


> Briss, how you doing lovely? Thinking about you tonnes xXx

We did it! It only took 3 hours to warm him up :dohh: but in the end the 10 min of heaven was worth it, I was standing on my head (almost) for 20 min after that and then fell asleep. I know that our chances are probably non existent because of DH's aggressive running this month (which he now agreed to quit  in exchange for me not watching any TV, no idea why it irritates him so much but it's a small price to pay) but I wont be able to cope with TWW when I know for sure I have no hope, even the slightest hope for a miracle will keep me going.


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> Briss, how you doing lovely? Thinking about you tonnes xXx
> 
> We did it! It only took 3 hours to warm him up :dohh: but in the end the 10 min of heaven was worth it, I was standing on my head (almost) for 20 min after that and then fell asleep. I know that our chances are probably non existent because of DH's aggressive running this month (which he now agreed to quit  in exchange for me not watching any TV, no idea why it irritates him so much but it's a small price to pay) but I wont be able to cope with TWW when I know for sure I have no hope, even the slightest hope for a miracle will keep me going.Click to expand...

Yay! :happydance: Wow, you are amazing Briss doing the warm up for 3 hours... Great news too that DH is going to quit the running and yes small price (but a weird one :wacko:) to pay - what will you do without EastEnders??? :shrug::haha: When is he doing the next SA?

You don't know for sure that you have no hope, you've had sex so there is hope hun! No sex = no hope and God I've had fair few of those cycles in my time :nope:

May I ask you sommit, if it's too much tell me to butt out....have you ever had a BFP in the years that you've been trying? :hugs::hugs:


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## Juniperjules

Just wrote this in another thread... but feels more @ home on this thread... 

was very moody & irritable today.. No idea if its due to a nasty case of PMS or simply due to negative thinking about AF coming (bcos even though i might slightly symptom spot... my brain cant get itself around the thought that i could ever actually get pregnant!)... or perhaps a looming bfp! .... 

Would love it to be the latter.. But either way.. My OH copped a mouthful from me earlier today! Yikes!! More than likely PMS. I'm seriously a feral sometimes thanks to PMS. Am an angel the rest of the month ; )


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## Briss

Jax, I have no idea why my DH is so against TV, after stressing out at work for some 12-15 hours I do need to watch something (anything really) that can take my mind off things before I can go to bed. I guess he needed a sacrifice from me of some sort (as if I have not sacrificed enough!). I've never even had a sniff of BFP with my DH but I was pregnant once in my 20th before I met my DH and it did not end well, it was not planned &#8230;sad story but I guess I am paying now for not accepting this "gift" (from some jerk) back then. Somehow I did not have any EWCM yesterday, just watery but today I have plenty. in the ideal world we would need to BD today as well but something tells me this is out of question&#8230;

Juniper, if you are at the end of your cycle it's understandable, I think nearing the end of TWW is the most stressful time


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## viccat

Jax41 said:


> If it's any consolation my DH manages far better in the mornings, evenings he can do it, he also can't be bothered :nope:

Hi Jax - my OH is better in the mornings too. He is naturally a morning person anyway, so it makes sense. I'm sure I've read somewhere though that mornings are better for DTD generally.



Briss said:


> I know that our chances are probably non existent because of DH's aggressive running this month (which he now agreed to quit  in exchange for me not watching any TV, no idea why it irritates him so much but it's a small price to pay) but I wont be able to cope with TWW when I know for sure I have no hope, even the slightest hope for a miracle will keep me going.

Yay Briss - you DTD! :happydance:

Is your DH a naturally quiet/introverted person? I ask because I am, and I sometimes struggle with the TV, especially early in the day, or when I want to read. I cannot wait to buy a house, because I can finally create a quiet comfy space away from the TV. My OH uses the TV to wind down too...


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## viccat

Briss said:


> Jax, I have no idea why my DH is so against TV, after stressing out at work for some 12-15 hours I do need to watch something (anything really) that can take my mind off things before I can go to bed. I guess he needed a sacrifice from me of some sort (as if I have not sacrificed enough!). I've never even had a sniff of BFP with my DH but I was pregnant once in my 20th before I met my DH and it did not end well, it was not planned sad story but I guess I am paying now for not accepting this "gift" (from some jerk) back then. Somehow I did not have any EWCM yesterday, just watery but today I have plenty. in the ideal world we would need to BD today as well but something tells me this is out of question

I am struggling to find the right words, but just wanted to say Briss that you are not alone. I had a tough decision to make in my 20s too, with someone I knew would make a rubbish father, never mind partner. :hugs:


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## Juniperjules

viccat said:


> Jax41 said:
> 
> 
> If it's any consolation my DH manages far better in the mornings, evenings he can do it, he also can't be bothered :nope:
> 
> Hi Jax - my OH is better in the mornings too. He is naturally a morning person anyway, so it makes sense. I'm sure I've read somewhere though that mornings are better for DTD generally.
> 
> 
> 
> Briss said:
> 
> 
> I know that our chances are probably non existent because of DH's aggressive running this month (which he now agreed to quit  in exchange for me not watching any TV, no idea why it irritates him so much but it's a small price to pay) but I wont be able to cope with TWW when I know for sure I have no hope, even the slightest hope for a miracle will keep me going.Click to expand...
> 
> Yay Briss - you DTD! :happydance:
> 
> Is your DH a naturally quiet/introverted person? I ask because I am, and I sometimes struggle with the TV, especially early in the day, or when I want to read. I cannot wait to buy a house, because I can finally create a quiet comfy space away from the TV. My OH uses the TV to wind down too...Click to expand...

My OH isn't a TV fan either I have to say. Only TV he'll really watch is the news & anything related to music (he's a musician). Only time we ever really regularly watch tv together is when The Voice or X-Factor or something like that is on!!! & mostly so he can say how crap most of the singers are!! : ) or watching documentary type shows. He likes movies though, & just bought a 3D tv recently so we've been watching movies almost every second nite. But like your OH Briss, he's not a fan of tv. 

Occasionally ill stick the telly on & go to make a coffee, he'll then walk into the room & Dr Phil will be on (which will have been a total coincidence I might add), & he'll be like 'oh god, bloody dr Phil I can't stand that guy- why do you watch this rubbish tv??'... And I'll be innocently making the coffee with no idea that the good doctor was even on the telly!!! He'd just rather be doing anything than watching TV- he says most stuff on TV is boring. So your not alone there Briss.. I don't mind TV myself, mostly for stuff like mini series ie downtown abbey, call the midwife that sort of thing. 

AFM... I actually got some non- babymaking action this morning.. Well, 11am so late morning! And I didn't have to beg! OH was still half asleep (late nite recording a band) so he didn't actually finish himself.. Which I'm not ecstatic about, but he was quite happy with himself that he'd 'sorted' me out iykwim?? So I didn't want to burst the bubble & harp on the him not finishing bit... Am still keeping to my 'no nagging for sex' rule & going on about him not finishing would've turned him making an effort into me whining 'again'.. So for now ill be content that he wanted to have sex at all.


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## Briss

Viccat, yes you are right my DH is introvert (but so am I actually) so maybe he is finding TV difficult after all day's work, never occurred to me. Thanks for pointing this out!

Juniper, thanks! I agree encouragement is very important and sometime you have to lose a battle to win the war so you did the right thing although I can imagine how hard it must be. We have unfinished BD sessions from time to time. it's disappointing but i can see that he tried his best. I cant say I love TV but it has some therapeutic qualities :) in that sense it's like tranquilizers I mean I switch it on and my mind just goes blank - it's a good thing (not always but at the moment) because I do not think about how bad things are at the moment, how deeply unhappy I am, my worries about our future stay back - basically I switch off. in that sense I am not picky and I do not really care what I watch as long as it's not something terribly boring that cant divert my attention and makes me start thinking about my life again. but if it's that annoying to my DH, I can find a different outlet. 

actually no TV seems to be working wonders on my DH, last night I told him that I got EWCM (he was laughing a lot cos he does not have a clue what this means) and that I had ovulation pains in my right ovary in the afternoon and think that my egg is being released. he asked whether that was too late for BD (it's never too late for BD if you ask me!) I said it depends on how fast his swimmers are and maybe it's perfect time. He said he will try!! it took a couple of attempts but we got there in the end!!! I so gave up on this cycle that i did not even increase his arginine intake - he did it all by himself! miracles do happen


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## Juniperjules

Briss said:


> Viccat, yes you are right my DH is introvert (but so am I actually) so maybe he is finding TV difficult after all day's work, never occurred to me. Thanks for pointing this out!
> 
> Juniper, thanks! I agree encouragement is very important and sometime you have to lose a battle to win the war so you did the right thing although I can imagine how hard it must be. We have unfinished BD sessions from time to time. it's disappointing but i can see that he tried his best. I cant say I love TV but it has some therapeutic qualities :) in that sense it's like tranquilizers I mean I switch it on and my mind just goes blank - it's a good thing (not always but at the moment) because I do not think about how bad things are at the moment, how deeply unhappy I am, my worries about our future stay back - basically I switch off. in that sense I am not picky and I do not really care what I watch as long as it's not something terribly boring that cant divert my attention and makes me start thinking about my life again. but if it's that annoying to my DH, I can find a different outlet.
> 
> actually no TV seems to be working wonders on my DH, last night I told him that I got EWCM (he was laughing a lot cos he does not have a clue what this means) and that I had ovulation pains in my right ovary in the afternoon and think that my egg is being released. he asked whether that was too late for BD (it's never too late for BD if you ask me!) I said it depends on how fast his swimmers are and maybe it's perfect time. He said he will try!! it took a couple of attempts but we got there in the end!!! I so gave up on this cycle that i did not even increase his arginine intake - he did it all by himself! miracles do happen

Oh Briss : ( ... Honey I can hear the pain in the words you wrote. I'm sorry you feel so unhappy & worried about your future. I can feel it too, I've just had probably the worst 12 months of my life. I won't go into why. But I don't know if I could ever feel as sad, depressed, & hopeless as I have done in the past 6-12months. The only time I've come close was when I was grieving for my grandfather when he died.. A terrible terrible time for me. 

If you are feeling so low, would u consider seeing a counsellor or psychologist?? I did in the end.. I work in mental health (I'm a nurse) & I had to accept that I don't have all the answers myself- even if I'm good at giving out advice to patients, it's different when it's ur own life. I also worried that by 'seeing someone' it was like acknowledging there was a problem.. Which is scary. But in the end if its causing you some distress then there is a problem. AND, it was the BEST thing I could've done. It made me look at certain things from a different perspective & it gave ME an outlet to express myself & vent & get a subjective opinion back. 

Just a thought anyway.. Don't want to sound preachy. I just know wot that hopeless/what does the future hold feeling is like. It's bloody tough. 

((((Hugs)))) to you


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## Briss

Juniper, thank you. I am going through probably the worst time in my life: I have been grieving for my beloved father for the last 1.5 years (and there is nothing anyone can do anymore and it's going to take me years before I can talk about it, this is the first time I am able even to write about it) and of course the one thing that could have helped me cope with my tragedy is having his grand child but that's where infertility comes in to crash me completely &#8230; sometimes I am even surprised I have a will to wake up in the morning. I cant go to counselling because I cant talk about it without falling apart, I completely fall apart even when I think about it. as I said it is going to take years. Unfortunately I am no stranger to losses, I lost my fiancé when I was 20 years old, he was only 28, my first man &#8211; I thought my life ended but I recovered in 2 years time and leant how to cope and carry on. 16 years later it still hurts because this is not something that can be cured, it's going to stay for ever you just need to learn to live with it every day. there is no short cut in grieving 

just got more bad news, my DH's SA came back as worst ever at 1 million. He did his test before he quit beer so I am hoping we have better sperm now. but FS is pushing for IVF


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## Juniperjules

Briss said:


> Juniper, thank you. I am going through probably the worst time in my life: I have been grieving for my beloved father for the last 1.5 years (and there is nothing anyone can do anymore and it's going to take me years before I can talk about it, this is the first time I am able even to write about it) and of course the one thing that could have helped me cope with my tragedy is having his grand child but that's where infertility comes in to crash me completely  sometimes I am even surprised I have a will to wake up in the morning. I cant go to counselling because I cant talk about it without falling apart, I completely fall apart even when I think about it. as I said it is going to take years. Unfortunately I am no stranger to losses, I lost my fiancé when I was 20 years old, he was only 28, my first man  I thought my life ended but I recovered in 2 years time and leant how to cope and carry on. 16 years later it still hurts because this is not something that can be cured, it's going to stay for ever you just need to learn to live with it every day. there is no short cut in grieving
> 
> just got more bad news, my DH's SA came back as worst ever at 1 million. He did his test before he quit beer so I am hoping we have better sperm now. but FS is pushing for IVF

Sorry to hear about SA results being bad. That sucks. But yes on the positive side at the very least it was while he was still drinking. Do you think the results will shock him into some self caring action? Is it ur DH who was starving himself first & then started running for 10 hours a day?? If so it sounds like he is doing himself some harm. Even if that particular behaviour is recent, it's very extreme -so I'm wondering if that's a regular type of thing? You know engaging in extreme behaviours? He needs to stop punishing his body. Was he trying to lose weight with the not eating & then running? 

It sounds like you have been through the ringer, an awful lot of loss in your life. And it takes its toll mentally. everything builds up like bricks building a wall, until eventually all the bricks come tumbling down on top of you & you cant hold it together anymore. And your right about the grief stuff (not that u need me to tell u that!)... Apart from dealing with my own grief more recently, prior to that I witnessed my beautiful mums grief for years & years over the loss of her only sister to breast cancer. She was only 39 when she died, & my mum only 34 at that time. My mum was 8 months pregnant when her sister died. I don't know how she found the strength to keep going. I love my own sister more than life itself.. It still makes me cry when I think what she went thru. We emigrated to the other side of the world a year later. For both financial and emotional reasons, my mum had to get away. And from the age of 8 till easily my early 20's, I know my mum was still deeply grieving her loss. I work with patients often who are maybe depressed or suffering anxiety as a result of a loss of a loved one- & I always tell them that its a very personal journey which is different for everyone, & only time can lessen the pain & intensity. 

When I started seeing a psychologist I basically cried for 90% of the time I was with her. It was like Pavlov's dogs!! I'd walk in, sit down & almost start crying before she even had a chance to speak! I felt like an idiot at first. But I realised it was like this huge release.. To be with someone neutral who understood so much of what I was feeling. 

Anyway, to say I hope your ok seems a little trite.. Your obviously not ok, but soldiering on thru tough times. Maybe IVF will be the answer for you. My mum had many problems with ttc- 7yrs ttc before I was born, then 4 miscarriages & 8 yrs till my sister came along.. But she (my sister) was the angel my mum needed. Like I said, born a month after my aunt died. I believe in miracles bcos she was our little miracle. I hope you get your miracle too, it sounds like you truly deserve one x


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## Briss

Juniper, yes that was my DH, he does go to some extreme, he lost a lot of weight but he did not stop and continued until he got totally skinny and he would not even stop there, I made him stop fasting so he took up running, now I stopped his running so he is complaining every day and may as well come up with something else. I do hope he will change. unfortunately I forgot to ask our FS whether his fasting had any affect on his sperm. that would have helped persuade him to stop it.

I am sorry about your mum's sister, that's a real tragedy when younger people pass away. That's interesting that you mentioned immigration, I immigrated myself when I was 25 and started a new life. the main problem is that I went on my own and my parents stayed so it was also quite hard to be apart, particularly when one parent is very ill. 

I only allow myself to give in to grief during my period, after that I know I must be calm and happy to produce a good egg and let my body do what it needs to help this egg implant.


----------



## Zeri

I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles, Briss, and you too, Juniperjules. Life can just be so difficult sometimes.... :-( :-( :-( I agree that talking to a counsellor might be a good idea, though. It sounds like there's still a lot of pain inside of you (understandably) from losing your father. Sometimes falling apart and expressing that pain is exactly what's needed - as funny as it sounds. It doesn't feel pretty...it doesn't make you feel strong...but it can help you heal better over the long-term to let it all out now. There's no need to feel composed in a counsellor's chair, either (I'm in mental health too)-they're there to listen and support and help you through. Anyway, HUGS!! :hugs:I really sympathize with how you're feeling right now. 

Sorry about the poor lab results too, but hopefully cutting back on the alcohol would've helped. Could the running have helped too, even though it was extreme? I know exercise is good for testosterone levels.... How do you feel about IVF?

Yayy for the OH's making an effort, though! :thumbup: 

Last night I told DH that I didn't like us feeling like roommates...and he offered to BD as well. :thumbup: Only thing was I didn't feel like doing it right then as I was waiting out AF. And I hate being hopeful, BDing and then seeing blood after. :wacko:

AF seems to be playing with me. She was due either yesterday or today but hasn't shown up yet. I've been having light cramps on and off since yesterday though, and a bit of brown spotting today. So she'll probably be here soon. :grr:


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## Briss

Zeri, thanks. sorry about AF, I hope it will stay away. I also do not feel like BD just before AF. I am trying to come to terms with the idea of IVF but hopefully we can try IUI first. My DH still does not agree with this so that's going to be another struggle getting him to accept this.


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## Jax41

Briss :hugs::hugs: for your 'sad story' in your 20s and for your Daddy... I've never had a chance of a BFP in my life so I can only imagine how you must be feeling to have let that one go, but you had your reasons at the time you can't beat yourself up about it now, please. But I do know what it's like to lose your Dad, mine's been gone just 3 years now and I miss him every day... Zeri's words to you about counselling were lovely, I know you don't want to fall apart but maybe all the stress and grief you're carring and the need to replace the loss with a baby is what's not helping you with TTC? I know how you feel, I've felt the same about wanting to fill the void for me and my Mum with a LO :hugs:

Tell me, you've prob already said but, why is your DH so against assisted??

And! I HATE BDing just before AF, it always makes her arrival quicker :growlmad:


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## Zeri

Yup re: AF arriving after BD. Well she showed her ugly face this morning anyway. 16 dpo! Ugh!!! After not seeing her for 14 and 15 dpo I was getting hopeful.....but so much for that. Thanks for dashing my hopes AF. You really know how to crash a party. :growlmad::grr::witch:

On the bright side, I did get a new script for Clomid last week, after a visit to the gyn. Clomid seems to be the only way I get pregnant, not sure why....so I'm hopeful about trying it again. Just need to make sure DH is on board before I waste another medicated cycle, though. 

Jax - is it time to test yet?


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## Jax41

Zeri said:


> Yup re: AF arriving after BD. Well she showed her ugly face this morning anyway. 16 dpo! Ugh!!! After not seeing her for 14 and 15 dpo I was getting hopeful.....but so much for that. Thanks for dashing my hopes AF. You really know how to crash a party. :growlmad::grr::witch:
> 
> On the bright side, I did get a new script for Clomid last week, after a visit to the gyn. Clomid seems to be the only way I get pregnant, not sure why....so I'm hopeful about trying it again. Just need to make sure DH is on board before I waste another medicated cycle, though.
> 
> Jax - is it time to test yet?

Zeri, good luck on the clomid hun :thumbup: I know what you mean about wasting a cycle, I only got 2 BD's out of the rat this cycle :dohh: so on that basis I'm not testing. Know how you feel about AF too, I was so sure that we'd cracked it last cycle, so much so that it's prob been my fault that I've only had 2 BD's just really had a can't be ar*ed approach this time round!

Anyway, I''ve got 2 clomid cycles left - PANIC!!!! - why I don't know bc it's not really made an awful lot of difference, well I don't feel it has, no BFP! The FS won't increase the dosage, he says all my levels are fine, I guess I should take that as a :thumbup: but it's left me more convinced that DHs swimmers are really what is letting us down :nope: Ahh well...


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## Briss

Jax, :hugs::hugs: you made me cry, it's so tough to lose parents, I cry for him every day but I do try to make my mum happy. though a grandchild would have made it easier for her... but that's not the reason we TTC, we started before 

I guess my DH is afraid that they are going to pull my body apart with the stimulation, drugs etc and it will be "his fault" because he could not make me pregnant - just my interpretation of what is happening in his head, I might be wrong.


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## Briss

Ladies, good luck with your clomid cycles. 

I am beginning to give up on natural TTC because with hubby's numbers it's just hopeless, will try and relax a bit until we move to assisted, hopefully by the end of summer


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## Juniperjules

AF arrived tonight.. Later than usual but here nonetheless. Am not flipping out.. Am remaining calm & looking forward to FS appt next week. Will be quite happy to have a Doc take the pressure off trying to do home inseminations etc.. Will b crossing my fingers for the next week praying iui is offered quickly! Will be 'just' about to ovulate when we have the appt so I guess anything offered wont happen till maybe June... 

Hope everyone else is doing ok??


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## Briss

Juniper, I am sorry about AF :( good luck with your FS appt next week. I hope you will get to IUI very quickly. 

What a tough journey this TTC business is, I am exhausted...


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## Juniperjules

Briss said:


> Juniper, I am sorry about AF :( good luck with your FS appt next week. I hope you will get to IUI very quickly.
> 
> What a tough journey this TTC business is, I am exhausted...

Thanks Briss ; ) 
Never a truer word has been said.. It's bloody tough.

**warning!!! Long winded rant coming... Apologies in advance***

Sometimes Briss it feels like life is a mountain I'm climbing & I'll never reach the summit!! I know that u are also really struggling with all of 'this' right now. I know for me it's even more frustrating bcos every month there's multiple issues that cause problems.. Oh how I dream of just being in a situation where every month u just have sex on fertile days & then 'wait & see'... But it's never that straightforward. 
First we have my OH issue with actually finishing- it does my head in!!! I guess it's our own fault- we've had sex that way for 18yrs.. I refused to go on the pill ever, & we didn't want to use condoms, so we basically used the withdrawal method. But bloody hell it has created a rod for our backs now. Soooo we use the syringe method for now (which I KNOW works for loads of people- I even watched a doco about surrogates last week & they successfully got pregnant using the syringe). However it hasn't worked for us yet. 

Secondly we have major problems with OH mother.. Basically she's a nutter.. Always has been. I wish she would just disappear. It's a long story but basically the result is that every Thursday nite I have to go stay at my parents place 30mins away bcos MIL comes to the house & stays all weekend & it causes all sorts of dramas. Honestly i couldnt even begin to really explain it all.. she really truly is the MIL from hell. Technically she owns the house so it's impossible to stop her coming. Believe me we've tried!! But she's CRAZY! So if my Ov falls over a weekend.. NIGHTMARE! which it did this past month & looks like its gonna b the next few as well. So OH & i were sneaking around, trying to so syringe inseminations without her figuring out something was going on.. we even did it in the car at 11pm one nite after i finished work!!! Seriously, when i think about it, it makes me wanna either cry or smash something. I even worry about trying to to iui or IVF bcos my OH works until the early hours on weekends, so trying to get him up & in a fit state to get to a clinic & donate a sample?!???? Geez I'm even stressing about that before its happened...

But I'm trying my absolute hardest to try & be positive. Again excuse my rabbiting on.. Typing this out is kind of cathartic! I have had a horrendous 1-2 years. I keep reminding myself that 6 months ago when OH & I were not together (we had a break for 4months brought on largely by dramas with his mother who basically drove me out of the house & gave me so much anxiety that I ended up seeing a psychologist b4 I had a total breakdown). BUT.. at that time I would've given my right arm to be ttc no matter how hard it may seem. Bcos at least if ur trying ur in with a chance. 6 months ago I was contemplating being single at 38 after 17 years.. & likely to never have children. 

So today, while I am feeling somewhat deflated, I'm telling myself that being negative & sad will get me nowhere. Infact, all it will do is depress the s*#t out of me & aggravate my OH who frequently tells me I'm always too negative. He just thinks 'oh well, so we keep trying- of course we'll have kids'. His mum had him at 40 so he doesn't think me being 38 is a big deal. And I have to remember that this is only our first month back trying- I think I had some romantic idea that we'd get a miracle.. But alas, no. 

So I've had my rant in here.. & I'm now not going to let it all get to me & start catastrophizing everything. The only way forward is with positive thoughts & hope. I never used to think I'd be keen to go the assisted reproduction route.. But now I think I'd do almost anything that we can afford to do. Thank god for modern medicine is all I can say!! 

Oh.. Thanks for listening ; )


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## Briss

Juniper, I was actually thinking about the syringe method but my DH just wont masturbate :( (TMI: to get SA I have to blow him! it's a nightmare) I am sorry about your MIL, she does sound like a MIL from hell. what's wrong with them why cant they let their sons be happy! I am dealing with a similar case but I am so lucky my MIL lives abroad but every time she comes to visit it causes so much damage to our relationship with my DH that we are trying to sort things out for weeks and week after she'd gone. 

I am so sorry you have to go though this on top of TTC, I always wonder why life is so unfair. I sometimes think about leaving my DH and just getting on with donor sperm and bring up a child on my own - difficult decision to make... 

Have you got your DH's SA checked? if it is normal, the syringe method actually might be a way forward. because of our age it's not going to happen quickly we have to wait for the good quality egg to come along I was told we only get 3-4 good eggs a year - I do not want to believe that though. I am back on chinese herbs to improve the egg quality while I am patiently waiting for hubby to sort out his SA.

this is the first TWW in years that I do not even hope I might be pregnant so I just wait for AF and I am OK with that. strangely it's liberating. I spent the last year stressing out and crying over every AF while all along my DH had almost no viable sperm for me to go by. What a waste of emotions that was. I am not doing it to myself anymore. My hubby is hopefully going to a urologist and we may get some answers and move to IUI/IVF. until then I will just try and stay calm and concentrate on improving my health. I started losing weight just to distract myself from TTC, I need to shed off pounds I gained while TTC (no-baby weight I call it)


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## Juniperjules

Briss, we had a SA done on my OH. It was good, my GP told me he had no issues... & he is well above the guidelines they give you with the results. So I guess either I could have a problem that I don't know of yet, or it's literally just a waiting game.. You know, just trying, trying, trying & hope that eventually we get a bfp. 

To be honest we haven't really even tried that much- but if we have to keep on doing the syringe stuff as well as dealing with all the other f*#*#d up stuff... I know that eventually it has the potential to destroy our relationship. I have put up with so much previously that my tolerance levels & anxiety can only take so much I think. So I really am after a quick fix ASAP. I think if the FA offers us IVF then I'm just gonna jump right in. We really really really need something amazing to happen for us..we can't keep getting dead ends. We need to have someone else to focus on, someone else to love together & to prove that we can be happy even after all the crap we've been through. 

We'll keep doing the syringe stuff mind you- not much else we can do. I know it works. It's no different to normal sex really??? It's just depositing the sperm near the cervix like would happen with sex. There's lots of girls on another thread I follow who have gotten pregnant that way, & it's really common in lesbian couples. But I guess the downside for me is that it reminds me that we aren't doing it 'properly' & it bcomes a kind of psychological problem more than anything else. If that makes sense??? Briss you could still do the syringe stuff- if u can get a SA done then you could def do the syringe... Unless your DH would be opposed to it?

God that 3-4 good eggs thing is a bit crap isn't it?? Holy moly this ttc after 35 just gets better & better doesn't it! Between old eggs & old men what chance do we have!!! Lol!! : ) I watched some videos of fertility doctors on YouTube today & they said that there's an 8% chance of iui working for a woman over 35 with unexplained infertility (which I don't technically have.. But who knows), and it's a 50% success rate for the same woman using IVF. So although I WAS very pro IUI... I'm now leaning towards IVF. But I guess I'll have to see what the FS says first. 

I'm glad ur DH is getting involved & seeing a urologist. When u know they are making some effort it makes all the difference doesn't it. I also have considered going it alone when OH & I were apart last year. I wasn't prepared to give up on being a mother just bcos I was potentially single at 38. If that was my only option id def do it. 

Good for you taking the bull by the horns with your health etc. just a word of warning... Try not to starve yourself bcoz you'll only slow down ur metabolism & won't lose weight. Just try & fill yourself up with fruit & veggies & proteins (fish, chicken, meat) & cut out all white carbs & refined sugars. The best way I lost weight was bike riding- it's fantastic, burns the fat like you wouldn't believe. Plus I joined WW online & used the iPhone app to track what I ate & exercise. I thought it was great.


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## Briss

Juniper, this is such a relief that there is no sperm issues on top of everything else. and I think the syringe stuff is actually better cos you can deposit his sperm right next to your cervix making it easier for them. my DH tends to pull back when he finishes which I think makes it almost impossible for his guys to swim all the way up through the acid vagina 

If we improve hubby's SA I will definitely start with IUI as this is closer to natural conception than IVF.

I stopped eating ALL bad sugars 3 weeks ago, it's really tough! I crave chocolate like every minute and feel totally miserable but then I am miserable anyway because of TTc business so it does not matter. and you are right as soon as i started eating much less I stopped losing any weight at all - so depressing. cos I am hungry all the time and still there is no positive movement to show for it. I started exercising e.g. aerobics and a bit of weight lifting with J Fonda DVD to boost my metabolic rate. hopefully this will help. I am not concerned anymore with jumping around in TWW...


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Ladies, good luck with your clomid cycles.
> 
> I am beginning to give up on natural TTC because with hubby's numbers it's just hopeless, will try and relax a bit until we move to assisted, hopefully by the end of summer

Briss :hugs: your post is music to my ears, not that you're giving up natural TTC but that you're going to try and relax a little more and move to assisted :thumbup: I get so worried about you! :hugs:

I wanted to TTC before my Dad died and then when he was poorly I told DH that I was paranoid he would never see my children. DH promised me he would, but well it didn't happen... Tbh, the 4 years my Dad was poorly were like 4 years out of my marriage, I don't think DH and I had sex once it just wasn't on my agenda :nope:

I have an awful hunch too that it's my DHs swimmers that are letting me/us down too, he is off for another SA soon so we'll see if there have been any improvement, but I am convinced that our main problem is that we just don't do it enough, I mean who's going to get preg on 1-2 shags a month FFS! :dohh:


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## viccat

Hi all, sorry I haven't been around much, its been a weird few weeks. I didn't want to announce it on here, but I got my BFP a couple of weeks ago. However it didn't stick around and I'm back on CD4 today. :nope:

The weirdness is because I didn't know who the dad was, and felt absolutely awful. I have an on/off lover and had got so insane about getting pregnant that I thought "what the hell" and let nature take it's course. Then OH actually was up for it the following day. When I got my BFP, I have to admit my first feeling was despair. I didn't sleep for the first few days, and felt like the worst person on the planet. I didn't have a clue what I was going to do - tell the truth and watch OHs world implode? Lie, and try and bring up a child that might, or more likely not, be his? :nope: So many thoughts running through my head. 

I didn't really want to admit to anyone, even anonymously online what I had done. But in the end, anything you think of me, cannot be any worse than how I feel about myself for doing this.

So, in some ways AF turning up was a relief. I realised I didn't want a baby so badly that I could do that to OH. And I don't want to lie to any child I have about who their father is :nope:

I still feel so much sorrow though, as it increases my suspicion that OH has problems with his swimmers. I am waiting for my doc's appointment to discuss my blood tests, and need to nag OH to go take his SA sample. I am annoyed that I will have to nag, but that is just who he is. In the meantime, my lover is willing to be a donor, which means temptation is never far away. I don't just want to be a mum though, I want to be a family :cry: I don't want to run off, or start a different relationship - I just want OH to want to have sex with me.


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## Briss

Jax, we had the same thing. Dad was in hospital for 9 months and I was in agony so it was really hard to BD. I did try because it was my dream that dad will at least see his grandchild but it was not meant to be. (no idea why though, apart from the usual answer that life is unfair). My DH found it very difficult because I was in tears all the time hoping and praying, agonising over mistakes the doctors made but still hoping for a miracle and then I went into what seems to him like never ending mourning. Last three years, have been the hardest and it affected our relationship. I think we are pulling ourselves through this.

actually you might be surprised about getting preggo on 1-2 shags a month, I noticed a few ladies saying that the month they got finally pregnant was when they stopped BD properly and just did it once or twice randomly. 

I can carry on almost normally as long as I do not get reminded that everyone around me is getting pregnant every second.


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## Briss

Viccat, poor you, you've been through a lot in the last few weeks! very sorry about your m/c but at least you now know what you really want. my friends have been telling me for a while now that I should just sleep with smb around O and get it over with but I am still trying to stick with my DH. I too want a family.


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## Juniperjules

viccat said:


> Hi all, sorry I haven't been around much, its been a weird few weeks. I didn't want to announce it on here, but I got my BFP a couple of weeks ago. However it didn't stick around and I'm back on CD4 today. :nope:
> 
> The weirdness is because I didn't know who the dad was, and felt absolutely awful. I have an on/off lover and had got so insane about getting pregnant that I thought "what the hell" and let nature take it's course. Then OH actually was up for it the following day. When I got my BFP, I have to admit my first feeling was despair. I didn't sleep for the first few days, and felt like the worst person on the planet. I didn't have a clue what I was going to do - tell the truth and watch OHs world implode? Lie, and try and bring up a child that might, or more likely not, be his? :nope: So many thoughts running through my head.
> 
> I didn't really want to admit to anyone, even anonymously online what I had done. But in the end, anything you think of me, cannot be any worse than how I feel about myself for doing this.
> 
> So, in some ways AF turning up was a relief. I realised I didn't want a baby so badly that I could do that to OH. And I don't want to lie to any child I have about who their father is :nope:
> 
> I still feel so much sorrow though, as it increases my suspicion that OH has problems with his swimmers. I am waiting for my doc's appointment to discuss my blood tests, and need to nag OH to go take his SA sample. I am annoyed that I will have to nag, but that is just who he is. In the meantime, my lover is willing to be a donor, which means temptation is never far away. I don't just want to be a mum though, I want to be a family :cry: I don't want to run off, or start a different relationship - I just want OH to want to have sex with me.

Viccat, I'm glad you've been able to post how u feel in here. having to try & hold something like that in & not share it with anyone can make you crazy. Sometimes just typing it out & putting it into words can give you some clarity. You aren't the first & u won't be the last woman who ends up sleeping with someone else due to the frustration they feel with their OH... Who they do really truly love. If there's one thing that being 38 has taught me, it's that life is beautiful, but complicated. We look at other people's lives & assume ours is screwed up but others are doing great.... I've realised the older I get that that is often wrong. We're all just very good at keeping our problems & secrets well hidden. 

You will find no judgement here honey. I too have done a thing or two that I perhaps should not have... I've also forgiven things that I thought I never would. But life just isn't that cut & dry. When your in a relationship you invest sooooooo much. Time, love, energy, emotions. And the power those investments can have over you can be overwhelming. It can make you do things you never thought you would when you were a young, naive girl in her 20's... 

Try not to be so hard on yourself. Losing the bfp is still sad no matter where it came from. But if it has given u some form of relief then try not to beat urself up about it. 

You'll always get support here if you need it. Don't feel alone.


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## viccat

Juniperjules said:


> Try not to be so hard on yourself. Losing the bfp is still sad no matter where it came from. But if it has given u some form of relief then try not to beat urself up about it.
> 
> You'll always get support here if you need it. Don't feel alone.

Thank you so so much for writing that.


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## Jax41

Viccat! :hugs: oh my word what a rollercoaster of emotions you've been on honey :hugs: I totally admire your honesty to post to us and of course you will *never* be judged on your actions. Your last sentence so made me :cry: that you just want to have a family with your DH, to have a loving relationship with him and he just not fulfilling you in that need and then you are left with a shed load of guilt and despair over what you've done :nope:. I don't think bad of you one bit as I have had the same feelings of doing just the same thing as you, just to have a :baby: but it just goes to show doesn't it that even that doesn't make us feel any happier about the situation when we just want it with our DHs but they're too thick or wrapped up in themselves to bother their backsides to notice :growlmad: Okay, I think I need to step down from my soapbox here, sorry :blush: but your dilemma has hit a nerve with me :hugs::hugs: and Juniperjules is right, please don't feel alone, we are all here for you x

Briss, maybe my body works on reverse psychology and I should just have my brains shagged out to get a BFP bc 1-2 isn't working for me at all :grr::grr: I totally agree with ticking along just fine without preg people around but a lady I catch the train with each moring is all of a sudden sporting a beautiful bump AND even worse DH's DS and GF have announced they are expecting their 2nd AND worse still the EDD is the day before my bloody birthday!! I've been in bits ever since :cry: and I've had to get through numerous family do's recently as it's been DH's 50th and we've all got a week together on holiday at the end of May - I feel wretched, bitter, and vile over it which really upsets me as I'm just not that kind of person but god the emotions have got hold of me really bad this time round :nope:

Girls, don't know quite how we're holding this all together atm but I'm so glad you're here :hugs:


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## Briss

Jax, that's awful, I think the only reason I am still doing sort of OK is because I do not have my distant family here, my relatives live abroad and I do not ever need to come for yet another baby shower, my younger cousins are having their third, fourth and fifth&#8230;! that would destroy me I have to be honest. I am holding up because during the day I work in a highly competitive environment where only secretaries can afford to get pregnant so I have very limited exposure to bumps and in the evening I either work or stay at home with DH. It's a lonely life cos I only meet friends who do not have children. I do not think I can survive LTTTC otherwise.


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## viccat

Hi Briss, I am like you in that I don't really come into contact much with pregnant people - thank goodness! I work in a technology business, so luckily I'm mostly surrounded by male geeks :haha:

And one of the benefits of being an older TTC'er is that my female friends who wanted family have already gone and done it. There's not many though TBH, I know tonnes of people without children - I wonder if I've done that deliberately? :shrug:

In the meantime OH and I are house shopping, and I am trying to use that to keep myself cheerful :flower:


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## Juniperjules

One of my oldest friends told me 2 days ago that she's pregnant with twins! IVF twins. She's been ttc on and off for years & her 4yr old was an IVF baby. I'm really genuinely happy for her. She's had a tough time for years. But I was thinking how quickly people/ friends go from being 'in the same boat', to suddenly with a text message you are on ur own again.. Does that make sense?? I've had this experience with a couple of friends now who've happily gone on to have IVF babies. Back to being the only one again! 

Oh... & I work in a hospital that has a maternity unit so I'm constantly walking past pregnant women.. Can't avoid them even professionally!!


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## Briss

Juniper, I know that's tough, I lost two friends to pregnancy, it's also tough when you buddy with smb here on B&B and after months of struggling together your buddy gets pregnant and you have to continue your journey alone and try to find new friends. Happened to me a couple of times, tough. and the longer you TTC the harder it gets &#8211; that's just my experience.


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## Juniperjules

Briss...yep it's bloody tough. I'm sort of uncomfortable writing this & saying it to other people- but I have almost completely isolated myself from all my oldest friends over the last 5 or more years. Bcos i havent been able to cope with everyone having babies. Couldn't handle another excruciating baby shower. I'm ashamed to say that one of my closest friends I haven't seen for a year since she had her 2nd baby... I was so miserable last year for so many reasons that after she had her 2nd baby I just felt like we had nothing in common anymore. It seemed all she talked about were her toddler & baby, she even said it herself.... It kinda did my head in. I felt like she was now in the 'club' that I'm still not part of. Totally selfish i know. I hate that I feel that way, I feel like a terrible person. I wish I could be different. But i got to a point where I couldn't physically make myself contact her anymore.. And she didn't bother either, so I didn't feel so guilty about it. But I do now when I think about it all. 

I talk to my mum about it a lot. She's my lifeline sometimes. bcos she struggled ttc she totally gets the pain u feel when everyone around is 'there' and you aren't. My dads sister had a baby every year for SIX years before mum finally had me. she said she just couldnt believe it was happening again every time she had to visit another new baby! She told me once how before she had me, after trying for years, she got to a stage where she almost felt like she could steal a baby. Back then in the 70's folk left babies outside laundromats & shops & flats for air... She said sometimes she'd see babies in prams & think 'i could just take it'. She KNEW it was crazy & would never have done it...but the feelings were that strong. 

However... On a more positive note- I actually do TRULY feel very happy for the friend who's having twins. She has struggled for years. She deserves happiness... As do I, & do you Briss, & Viccat, & all the girls in here. This particular friend has reminded me again that there's hope ahead. I'm getting anxiety about this FS appt, but I'm gonna keep thinking of my friend & the idea that I could end up with twins too if I'm lucky! ; )


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## Electricat

Juniperjules said:


> Briss...yep it's bloody tough. I'm sort of uncomfortable writing this & saying it to other people- but I have almost completely isolated myself from all my oldest friends over the last 5 or more years. Bcos i havent been able to cope with everyone having babies. Couldn't handle another excruciating baby shower. I'm ashamed to say that one of my closest friends I haven't seen for a year since she had her 2nd baby... I was so miserable last year for so many reasons that after she had her 2nd baby I just felt like we had nothing in common anymore. It seemed all she talked about were her toddler & baby, she even said it herself.... It kinda did my head in. I felt like she was now in the 'club' that I'm still not part of. Totally selfish i know. I hate that I feel that way, I feel like a terrible person. I wish I could be different. But i got to a point where I couldn't physically make myself contact her anymore.. And she didn't bother either, so I didn't feel so guilty about it. But I do now when I think about it all.
> 
> I talk to my mum about it a lot. She's my lifeline sometimes. bcos she struggled ttc she totally gets the pain u feel when everyone around is 'there' and you aren't. My dads sister had a baby every year for SIX years before mum finally had me. she said she just couldnt believe it was happening again every time she had to visit another new baby! She told me once how before she had me, after trying for years, she got to a stage where she almost felt like she could steal a baby. Back then in the 70's folk left babies outside laundromats & shops & flats for air... She said sometimes she'd see babies in prams & think 'i could just take it'. She KNEW it was crazy & would never have done it...but the feelings were that strong.
> 
> However... On a more positive note- I actually do TRULY feel very happy for the friend who's having twins. She has struggled for years. She deserves happiness... As do I, & do you Briss, & Viccat, & all the girls in here. This particular friend has reminded me again that there's hope ahead. I'm getting anxiety about this FS appt, but I'm gonna keep thinking of my friend & the idea that I could end up with twins too if I'm lucky! ; )

:cry::hugs:


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## viccat

I wouldn't be so tough on yourself about stepping back from friendships Juniper. Friendships are flexible things, especially those long term ones where you've got a strong bond. They can come and go for years at a time, and I am sure if you get your BFP your friend will be thrilled for you, and happy to pick up where you guys left off.

I see less of them nowadays, but I've known my oldest matest for more than 30 years. Sometimes it has been strained, other times easy, but they feel like family, and I know that if something terrible happened we would be there for eachother.

[Weirdly, I am getting on better with the one who does have a child at the moment. One has gone anti-children, and likes to spend ££££ on expensive clothes and nights out, which just isn't me. The other has a new husband, so is a bit off radar at the moment!]


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## Briss

Juniperjules :hugs: :hugs: good luck with your FS appt, I so hope this will be the begining of something wondeful for you. 

Just had a coffee with a colleague who is leaving the firm who was trying to persuade me that I really need to stop working this hard and start thinking about getting pregnant and she went on and on about the benefits etc. It's partly my fault cos nobody at work knows I am TTC they think I am obsessed career woman who just loves working 24/7. I was trying very hard not to spill the beans but it made me wanna cry. On a positive note my DH and I and off to Barcelona tomorrow for a city break, we are trying to patch up our relationship because it got to a point where we are just constantly unhappy with each other. maybe if we relax for a few days things get better. I really hope so cos otherwise I just do not know what future we have


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## viccat

Briss said:


> Just had a coffee with a colleague who is leaving the firm who was trying to persuade me that I really need to stop working this hard and start thinking about getting pregnant and she went on and on about the benefits etc. It's partly my fault cos nobody at work knows I am TTC they think I am obsessed career woman who just loves working 24/7. I was trying very hard not to spill the beans but it made me wanna cry. On a positive note my DH and I and off to Barcelona tomorrow for a city break, we are trying to patch up our relationship because it got to a point where we are just constantly unhappy with each other. maybe if we relax for a few days things get better. I really hope so cos otherwise I just do not know what future we have

I hope you have a lovely time in Barcelona - it is one of my favourite places to visit, so I'm quite jealous! I am keeping my fingers crossed that you and your DH chill out, enjoy eachother's company and reconnect. I TOTALLY understand the not knowing what future you have with your partner. I regularly feel that way too....

As for well meaning folks telling you to TTC - well! :dohh: I haven't told anyone either because I don't want all my conversations to be about the disappointment of not being pregnant. It does mean that there's some ill judged comments at times though!


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## nobump

Not posted here in a while. Looking forward to a week away with hubby next week but timing all wrong. I'm ovulating now dragged hubby of to bed last night and tonight but just not happening. Will try again in morning might still catch the egg. Hopefully things will work out next week. Keep trying to stop myself telling hubby next week doesn't matter because it does but still can't help feeling frustrated.


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## Juniperjules

nobump said:


> Not posted here in a while. Looking forward to a week away with hubby next week but timing all wrong. I'm ovulating now dragged hubby of to bed last night and tonight but just not happening. Will try again in morning might still catch the egg. Hopefully things will work out next week. Keep trying to stop myself telling hubby next week doesn't matter because it does but still can't help feeling frustrated.

Good luck catching that egg! And your right- a week away together def counts.. And that includes the BDing even if the timing is wrong. I had AF this week & my OH started getting 'frisky' 2 days in a row.. Which lately doesn't happen very often. Both times I had to remind him I had AF and he like like 'still? oh crap I forgot'.... But I was happy just that he'd shown some interest. I decided a few weeks ago that I was going to lay of nagging him for sex & going on about it.. So maybe that's working?? We'll see, I hope it continues..

So enjoy ur week together, and enjoy any intimacy you get regardless of it not being baby making. Just have fun together. It's so easy to lose the fun when were TTC.


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## nobump

Keep trying to remind myself not to nag. It,s alwAys easier to spend time together when we are away, just frustrating when timing all wring. Got AF on last week of hols last year, was gutted. No signs til day of AF. Said to hubby feel like we are flogging a deAd horse. Realise afterwards not the most encouraging words I have ever used. He brought up my comment a few weeks later.

Good luck all.


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## Juniperjules

Briss, enjoy Barcelona!! There's nothing like being in a different city to inject a bit of life back into a weary mind & soul!! I hope u both have a lovely time & can reconnect & remember why u got together in the beginning.


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## Briss

Juniper, thanks! unfortunately we started arguing even before we left for the airport... I hope things will improve, will report back when I return


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## Jax41

Briss! Have a lovely time in Barca, I so hope you can relax and enjoy each others company for a while. Must be the place to go as we are there last week of May (with all the entourage (sp?) :wacko: not sure how I'm going to get thro that one, would so much prefer it if it was just me and DH and have told him but it's all part of the b'day celebrations...)

I've read all your posts girls and am nodding and yeaing all the way through to your talk of isolation and future's with our DH's as mine is also completely in question atm....bloody hell I'm having such a BAD, bad day today and you girls are so good for my soul!!!! :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: But my Mum (she's also my saviour Electricat) has just said if you break with DH you'll be isolated from children completely and this maybe a kind of chance to have little children in your life the hurt may pass...:shrug: I don't know but I have a huge amount of resentment towards DH as he hasn't and doesn't help my siutation one iota...and for that reason I'm not sure how or if our marriage will survive. If I meet someone else with kids/grandkids, the resentment won't be there... How do you know :shrug: I guess my best bet is to stick with him as there is far more chance of me becoming preg than trying to meet someone new :shrug:

I have too much going round in my head :wacko: AND we have round 50million of the birthday tonight, another family dinner out with additional friends one couple having just had their third baby....I just DONT want to go....

As for work, although I work in education (senior school) I am one of the youngest, and we talk menopause and hot flushes all the time - thank God for that and my 3 great gf's who are so supportive have teenage children, wow and that talk really is enough to put you off but I'd still love love to have a shot at it...

Okay, I'm rambling :dohh::haha:


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## viccat

Jax41 said:


> I've read all your posts girls and am nodding and yeaing all the way through to your talk of isolation and future's with our DH's as mine is also completely in question atm....bloody hell I'm having such a BAD, bad day today and you girls are so good for my soul!!!! :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: But my Mum (she's also my saviour Electricat) has just said if you break with DH you'll be isolated from children completely and this maybe a kind of chance to have little children in your life the hurt may pass...:shrug: I don't know but I have a huge amount of resentment towards DH as he hasn't and doesn't help my siutation one iota...and for that reason I'm not sure how or if our marriage will survive. If I meet someone else with kids/grandkids, the resentment won't be there... How do you know :shrug: I guess my best bet is to stick with him as there is far more chance of me becoming preg than trying to meet someone new :shrug:

Sorry if I missed something earlier in the thread - how does sticking with DH keep you around little children? Is this his grandkids? Have you ever talked about (or at least touched on) the feelings of resentment with him?

I know what you mean about the should I stay or should I go dilemma. I'm 38, will be 39 in September. I am never going to meet someone new AND form a long term relationship with them in the time I have available. But if I stay, then I'm not looking likely to get pregnant to OH :nope: So it is stay and try my best, or leave and try with donor, which means being a single mum. Financially I could do it, but emotionally I don't want to! It is a bit of a shock after most of my life running smoothly. I always thought I was a pretty lucky person, until now. 

I get annoyed at myself for not forcing the issue earlier. I met OH when I was 31, so we've been together just over 7 years. It took 4 years before we lived together, because he only acts when I threaten to leave :nope: He lived with his best mate and his brother before I got fed up and said okay, this isn't working for me. I still cannot believe I had to push for our engagement. In fact, I feel like crying now, because I am realising I did this to myself :cry:

I'm feeling a bit emotional today, because I went to the doctors for my blood test results. The good news is that everything came back really good. Which should make me happy, but she then was talking quite a bit about the possibility of OH having no sperm. It would rather explain why 14 months of infrequent but well timed sex has had no effect. [And the one month I slept with someone else, I got a BFP].

This is a real "oh f**k, what the hell do I do" day. :cry:


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## Juniperjules

Viccat, I know exactly how ur feeling. My OH practically needs a rocket up his a*#e to get him to do anything that normal adults do so easily. 

I've been having panic attacks all nite, waking up & stressing out about how I feel my chances of having kids is looking dimmer & dimmer. Like you, I honestly can't believe I'm in this situation. 

I think I wish I could walk away from my OH. I love him but my life is miserable. He tells me I'm so negative & depressed all the time.. He doesn't seem to get that it's this life making me that way. 

A few girls in here seem to be feeling this way. I love my OH very much. Too much maybe- to my detriment. He's a good person but he has never grown up & has lots of issues due to his parents. I often wonder if I'd be happier with someone else. But ive been with OH so long that i cant even imagine being with someone else. But i wonder if even if I never had babies, perhaps a different relationship would be better.. Or make me happier in the long run? Relationships & love aren't meant to be easy- but they shouldn't b this hard either. The saying 'sometimes love isn't enough' ring in my ears sometimes.

We've got the FS appt tomoro. Now it's upon us I don't think he's overly keen. Plus he's now sick. And he's hopeless when he's sick. He said last nite that he'd go.... But I can see him pulling out tomoro saying he's too unwell & we should just keep trying on our own. 

If he does.. I'm tempted to go alone & just say he's sick. Do those of u who have done this b4 think it will still be ok if I go alone?? Bcos at least once I've been then I'm in the system? And if I get all the info &explain our situation the doc might still be able to give me a plan?? And then I can try & talk OH into it when he's not being a sickly baby!

Viccat, I'm also having a 'what the f*#k am I gonna do' day.... I can't take much more. Have sent u a pm.. But not sure if it actually sent!


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## viccat

Juniperjules said:


> Viccat, I know exactly how ur feeling. My OH practically needs a rocket up his a*#e to get him to do anything that normal adults do so easily.
> 
> I've been having panic attacks all nite, waking up & stressing out about how I feel my chances of having kids is looking dimmer & dimmer. Like you, I honestly can't believe I'm in this situation.
> 
> I think I wish I could walk away from my OH. I love him but my life is miserable. He tells me I'm so negative & depressed all the time.. He doesn't seem to get that it's this life making me that way.
> 
> A few girls in here seem to be feeling this way. I love my OH very much. Too much maybe- to my detriment. He's a good person but he has never grown up & has lots of issues due to his parents. I often wonder if I'd be happier with someone else. But ive been with OH so long that i cant even imagine being with someone else. But i wonder if even if I never had babies, perhaps a different relationship would be better.. Or make me happier in the long run? Relationships & love aren't meant to be easy- but they shouldn't b this hard either. The saying 'sometimes love isn't enough' ring in my ears sometimes.
> 
> We've got the FS appt tomoro. Now it's upon us I don't think he's overly keen. Plus he's now sick. And he's hopeless when he's sick. He said last nite that he'd go.... But I can see him pulling out tomoro saying he's too unwell & we should just keep trying on our own.
> 
> If he does.. I'm tempted to go alone & just say he's sick. Do those of u who have done this b4 think it will still be ok if I go alone?? Bcos at least once I've been then I'm in the system? And if I get all the info &explain our situation the doc might still be able to give me a plan?? And then I can try & talk OH into it when he's not being a sickly baby!
> 
> Viccat, I'm also having a 'what the f*#k am I gonna do' day.... I can't take much more. Have sent u a pm.. But not sure if it actually sent!

Hiya Juniper - yep I got your pm and have sent a reply. :hugs:

Things are going okay here this month. I told my lover that I had got pregnant, and how horrible it had made me feel. He seemed to understand, and is taking the lead from me on things between us. So when I saw him at the weekend we stuck to coffee and a chat.

In the meantime, OH seems to have taken on board DTD more frequently :happydance: Mebbies I shouldn't celebrate too soon, but here we are on CD11 and have DTD twice (TWICE!!!) so far this month. I am so hopeful to get proper fresh swimmers when we get to ov time.

I am still worried that when OH gets off his arse and gets his sperm assessment done that it will show up that he has azoospermia (i.e. no swimmers). At that point the affair will be out in the open, and lord knows what will happen. There's a bit of me almost wants it to all come out - I hate living the lie, and have often wished I could just say to OH "you don't like sex, but I do. Please can I have a relationship alongside this one that fulfills that". I don't know how the people in open relationships ever get to that point? :shrug:


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## Juniperjules

Yay! Happy to hear things in the BD dept are good this month Viccat. It's amazing how it can turn things around in you head & make it feel like anything is possible. I've got my fingers crossed that ur OH sperm count is good. Did he know about the bfp then? Is that why ur saying if his count is low then the affair will be out of the bag??

It's Ov week for me too this week, cd10 today. I was feeling very negative earlier when I posted. Am feeling more positive now bcos it looks like my OH will come willingly to the FS with me tomoro. It's funny how things can go from crap to hopeful so easily!


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## Briss

Jax, Barcelona is a fantastic place you will definitely enjoy it! the food is really good. our trip was great but i was hoping it would be much warmer, I had to wear jumper and jacket all the time. on a positive side we managed to BD once!

Expecting AF tomorrow or Friday, feel totally depressed about everything. being away made me take a moment and look at my life from the outside and I did not like what I saw. I do not know what to do but I feel I need to make some changes, maybe quit my job (it just drains me completely) or find a new husband&#8230; maybe both&#8230;. I could barely find energy to get up this morning and force myself to work. DH and I argued a lot while in Barcelona because over the last 3 years I was so focuses on TTc that I did not raise everything else that's wrong in our relationship. also I am just so busy at work that I never have time to even think about it. being away just showed me all the things I am unhappy about in our relationship besides TTC and I could no longer hold them in, they came out pouring so we argued and argued &#8230; do not even know where we go from here 

Viccat I am totally with you on the should I stay or should I go dilemma. "I am never going to meet someone new AND form a long term relationship with them in the time I have available" &#8211; sad but true. I also do not know if leaving DH is the best way forward, it would probably mean going donor sperm and doing it alone, am I ready for this? should I still hope he will improve his sperm or agrees for IVF? I met DH when I was 26, I am 37 next month! what was I thinking??? It never occurred to me that he could be a problem. I always assumed it could only be me so I was checking myself every 6 months making sure everything is in good working order but you cant help getting older, what I should have been doing is getting him to check his sperm and look for smb else. Viccat, you are not alone, I made my DH marry me, had to break up our 6-7 year old relationship before he proposed&#8230;. why did I do it to myself??? so much effort and commitment on my part&#8230; for what??

Juniper, I can say exactly the same about myself - I love him but my life is miserable. Though I can imagine myself with smb else but to be honest I do not think I am that attractive at the moment (I look tired all the time) so not a chance I can get somebody else. Men like happy confident women, I do not look the part. besides the thought of leaving my Dh and the fact that this will probably break his heart for good makes me think. btw My DH only went for the first appointment, all follow up app it's just me on my own&#8230;


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## Juniperjules

So.. Had my FS appt today & it went well. OH came with me, however it was a 2hr wait to see the FS & OH is sick, so I sent him to wait in the car bcos I think a waiting room jam packed with women, 50% very pregnant was getting a bit much for him. He looked rotten & was coughing & spluttering so the car was a better option! I told him I'd call if I needed him. 

So the FS was great! A man in his late 50's maybe, slightly eccentric, Been in the game for 20 odd years.. I felt like he should've been wearing a bow tie! : ) he was very positive, and barely blinked an eyelid when I explained my OH's 'finishing' issue. In fact he sympathised & said most men don't feel comfortable with issues like that, & infact it's very common. He also reassured me that using a syringe to do at home inseminations is completely fine- no worse than normal sex!! So I'm feeling very good about that. 

He then said that he'd get some tests done on me & then we'd decide how to proceed. He asked what supplements I take, & when I told him I take ubiquinol, he said he hadn't heard of it (well he'd heard of CoQ10, but not for this purpose... So he spent about 10minutes googling & reading stuff on the Internet, & looking for scientific journal articles!! I thought that was pretty funny!

So he is sending me for the following, the cd 21 bloods I've already had done by my GP but he's doing them again; 
*Bloods cd 3 or 4- FSH, oestradiol, progesterone, prolactin, AMH, TSH... & something that looks like ZH? Or 2H?? Can't quite make it out
*Bloods cd 21-23- oestradiol & progesterone
*Transvaginal ultrasound to measure follicles 
* he also wrote up a pathology slip for a HSG, & said its my choice if & when I use it. He basically said 'it can be very useful & worthwhile', but has left it up to me as to whether I bother with it. I'll probably do it, but not sure when. 

And my next appt is on 12 June...


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## Briss

Juniper, your appointment sounds very positive. it's great that he asked about supplements! Our Fs does not believe in them which is very disappointing. it's funny though that he never heard of ubiquinol but nice that he went on and checked rather than (like most docs) would just get defensive and dismiss it. all tests sounds right, I think it's good to do HSG to make sure tubes are fine


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## Zeri

Hi, Just wanted to pop in to say a quick hello. Both my computers are down so I can't type long mails, but I've been reading on my IPod and following everyone's stories. Hope to check back in properly soon. Until then, baby dust to all of us!


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## viccat

Juniperjules said:


> Yay! Happy to hear things in the BD dept are good this month Viccat. It's amazing how it can turn things around in you head & make it feel like anything is possible. I've got my fingers crossed that ur OH sperm count is good. Did he know about the bfp then? Is that why ur saying if his count is low then the affair will be out of the bag??

Yes, OH knew about the BFP. I didn't say anything until a couple of days after AF was due, and then told him because I couldn't keep it secret any more.



Briss said:


> Expecting AF tomorrow or Friday, feel totally depressed about everything. being away made me take a moment and look at my life from the outside and I did not like what I saw. I do not know what to do but I feel I need to make some changes, maybe quit my job (it just drains me completely) or find a new husband maybe both. I could barely find energy to get up this morning and force myself to work. DH and I argued a lot while in Barcelona because over the last 3 years I was so focuses on TTc that I did not raise everything else that's wrong in our relationship. also I am just so busy at work that I never have time to even think about it. being away just showed me all the things I am unhappy about in our relationship besides TTC and I could no longer hold them in, they came out pouring so we argued and argued  do not even know where we go from here
> 
> Viccat I am totally with you on the should I stay or should I go dilemma. "I am never going to meet someone new AND form a long term relationship with them in the time I have available"  sad but true. I also do not know if leaving DH is the best way forward, it would probably mean going donor sperm and doing it alone, am I ready for this? should I still hope he will improve his sperm or agrees for IVF? I met DH when I was 26, I am 37 next month! what was I thinking??? It never occurred to me that he could be a problem. I always assumed it could only be me so I was checking myself every 6 months making sure everything is in good working order but you cant help getting older, what I should have been doing is getting him to check his sperm and look for smb else. Viccat, you are not alone, I made my DH marry me, had to break up our 6-7 year old relationship before he proposed. why did I do it to myself??? so much effort and commitment on my part for what??

Sorry to hear about the arguments Briss. I know what you mean about focusing on one thing to the detriment of others. It almost sounds like you need proper time out of your life to take a good hard look at all elements of it. Or would you consider going for some form of counselling - perhaps life coaching? I had a few sessions 3 years ago, and found it really useful. I changed job, moved out of the house with OH, but perhaps unfortunately, backed out of leaving the relationship - although with the support of my life coach I had at least got to that point.

Not sure whether you have seen this or not, but it rather cheered me up.... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2323432/Fiona-Dolman-reveals-pregnant-following-short-fling-younger-lover-secretly-splitting-husband.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

*Juniper *- That sounds a really positive appointment! Sorry for my ignorance, but what is an HSG?

Will you get your results before 12th June, or go through them then?


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## nobump

Enjoying our trip. Giving up on possibility of being pregnant this month. Enjoying a wee tipple. The sauna and jacquzee. Hopefully get down to it tomorrow.


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## Juniperjules

No bump- sounds fantastic! Have fun & enjoy!

Briss- I agree with Viccat, maybe a counsellor could help. Just with some direction & guidance. An objective 3rd party. 

I thought the FS was great. He said in his 20 years in reproductive medicine that lots of fads have come & gone, but that he is always open to new possibilities. And from wot he read while I was there he couldn't see any harm in me taking them. And that he could see how they might do wot people say they do (improve egg quality). 

Sorry ur trip involved lots of arguements. That sucks. I know that once I'm hung up on some of these ttc issues it's a slippery slope down into feeling like our whole relationship is doomed. Every little issue feels insurmountable & unfixable. Bleak & depressing. I can't speak for your relationship of course, only u know what's really going on. I feel for you hon. It's an awful situation to be in. 

Viccat, HSG is where they put a catheter into the cervix & send dye thru it & with X-ray they can see if it flows freely thru ur Fallopian tubes. And apparently if there are any smallish blockages the dye can unblock them. And if there are any issues, then the FS can follow up & treat them. I've heard it's painful though.. I remember a friend having it done who said it was terrible.. So I'm undecided. Bcos I'm a chicken : ) and yep all the test results will be back by the next appt, so I guess the FS will go through them with me. I can get everything done at the hospital itself & it's all covered by our Medicare system (which is basically equivalent to it being covered by the NHS in the UK).


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## nobump

Juniper, that's interesting about supplements, might look at taking more than just folic.


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## jessshakespea

Hello all, can I join in? My OH doesn't have much in the way of sex drive and sometimes it really gets me down. I've gone through the whole wondering if I'm attractive to him thing, then the searching for solutions (tried loads, failed), talking (seems to only make it worse somehow and into giving up. I'm kinda used to it now I think. Sometimes I wish things were different but at the moment I'm so tired with work it's not so bad. I'm happy to say that he DOES want a baby and despite his low drive is willing to take one for the team every day around O time. In some ways it's helped as before sex had become the elephant in the room. Now it's more a means to an end so there's less stress about how it 'should' be.
Nothing works though, other than the fact that we HAVE to have sex. I've wondered if I can stick it out long term but he's such an amazing bloke I would be daft to walk away for one problem in a relationship, I don't have to worry about him not trying for a baby.
For you guys who are questioning things I would say if you aren't happy, don't stay. An unhappy sperm donor is not necessarily something you want hanging around after you've had your baby! It is hard being a single mum, I've done it. You ladies deserve a man who wants what you want and will do anything to get it for you! (Even if it means forcing it like mine does!). :dust: xx


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## viccat

Hi Jess, and welcome :flower:

I'm probably in a similar situation, in that OH, does want to be a dad / for us to be a family, and already lives a lifestyle compatible with that. Like your OH, he can be persuaded, particularly if it is an important week .... and other than sex we have a great relationship (took a bit of getting there, but we're both happy. I can ignore the dirty socks :winkwink:).

BUT.... is it enough to be great roommates? I have a similar dilemma to you, aside from TTC, that I am not sure I can live another 30+ years without a bit more passion in my relationship. Heck, he's teetotal, so its not like I even get some action when we're both drunk :shrug: It is difficult when a) it is such a fundamental part of a relationship and b) is something you're not supposed to get elsewhere. :nope: Anything else you're allowed to get friends to fill the gap!

As for me....
.... well I got my peak on CBFM yesterday, so despite being tired, and sore from a minor surgical procedure yesterday, I did the seduction thing. He came around to it pretty easily, although he was worried about pulling the couple of stitches I've got on my back. Third time this month - I think I've just equalled my previous personal best! :haha: I'm not sure what has made the improvement - possibly the prospect of having to do sperm tests, or maybe me being more determined after last month's shock. :shrug: If I hadn't made the move yesterday, we wouldn't have DTD.

My only worry is that this cycle is slightly different to normal (less EWCM and lower sex drive) so not sure if I will ovulate this month. I'm trying to stay positive, and see it as good practice even if I don't.


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## nobump

Back home feeling icky. Hubby just made me a bubble bath. Heading out to local pub for some food. Doubt we'll get down to it over weekend if I don't perk up :-(


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## Juniperjules

nobump said:


> Back home feeling icky. Hubby just made me a bubble bath. Heading out to local pub for some food. Doubt we'll get down to it over weekend if I don't perk up :-(

Sorry to hear that : ( a nice bubble bath will help a little.. Light some candles & play some music too! 

Crap weekend for me too. Positive OPK this morning at 0600hrs, but looks like this month is a bust. My OH has a cold, & like most men, that means he is dying & may never recover!!!! God give me strength not to strangle him... It's nothing new, he's always like this when sick. But it HAD to fall on this week didn't it??? So he has told me mutiple times now that theres 'no way' he could manage sex or even just a DIY job so that were in with a small chance this month. i wish i could REALLY make him understand how even just having ONE go at least gives me something to hope for for a few weeks, you know keeps me going. But hes adamant that its impossible, mind you, he had to work last nite & managed to recover enough for a few hours to stay out until 3am to see a friends band play... Sometimes I really feel like the whole feckin universe is conspiring against me & I should just give up. Am trying to keep my cool given that he was very enthusiastic last month, keep telling myself sickness can't be helped & it's only one month...


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## astito

Juniper, why don't you try IUI?
or, at least, you can give him a softcup and say ''go bath and give me your little swimmers:baby:"...He can do it in 5 to 10 minutes:shrug:


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## astito

viccat said:


> Hi Jess, and welcome :flower:
> 
> 
> My only worry is that this cycle is slightly different to normal (less EWCM and lower sex drive) so not sure if I will ovulate this month. I'm trying to stay positive, and see it as good practice even if I don't.

viccat, don't worry on less ewcm. it doesn't mean strong ovulation...last year I got pregnant without any ewcm...sometimes ewcm is up to enough liquid you take...


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## nobump

Juniperjules said:


> nobump said:
> 
> 
> Back home feeling icky. Hubby just made me a bubble bath. Heading out to local pub for some food. Doubt we'll get down to it over weekend if I don't perk up :-(
> 
> Sorry to hear that : ( a nice bubble bath will help a little.. Light some candles & play some music too!
> 
> Crap weekend for me too. Positive OPK this morning at 0600hrs, but looks like this month is a bust. My OH has a cold, & like most men, that means he is dying & may never recover!!!! God give me strength not to strangle him... It's nothing new, he's always like this when sick. But it HAD to fall on this week didn't it??? So he has told me mutiple times now that theres 'no way' he could manage sex or even just a DIY job so that were in with a small chance this month. i wish i could REALLY make him understand how even just having ONE go at least gives me something to hope for for a few weeks, you know keeps me going. But hes adamant that its impossible, mind you, he had to work last nite & managed to recover enough for a few hours to stay out until 3am to see a friends band play... Sometimes I really feel like the whole feckin universe is conspiring against me & I should just give up. Am trying to keep my cool given that he was very enthusiastic last month, keep telling myself sickness can't be helped & it's only one month...Click to expand...

Bath was good. OH is the the sAme when I'll. Although as he's was off work around O Drag him to bed when I got in from work a few times but no joy. He,s been on penicillin for a couple of weeks and it has managed to put a stop to things then. Although we have done it a couple of other times this month including when FF Thinks I may have O Not holding out much hope. Temps look to be on way back down.
My OH did make me laugh the other day as yes he to always seemed to have a cold around my O time. He thought men might have 'cycles' as well. Otherwise how do they know! I have stopped telling him.


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## viccat

Oh Juniper, sorry to hear that OH is not playing ball :nope: It doesn't sound good that he is telling you he cannot DTD even before you ask. Does getting annoyed help in these situations with him or not?


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## Briss

It's just getting worse, I had a breakdown last night, AF and everything looked really gloomy we argued (in our usual fashion) and one of the neighbors called the police!! I was so lost when they arrived I could not even understand what was happening. Now I can of course think of million ways how I should have reacted but last night I could not even think straight. we explained that we just had an argument, that's all but in the end we are getting a police record of "domestic incident". I am so angry at the neighbors. I do not know how these things work, never had an encounter with the police before but as far as I know police records are there for ever, I am so distressed by it (being a solicitor and all) on top of being generally disappointed in life. will it ever get better or is this it, just getting worse and worse and there is no light of any kind. the only positive thing was that my Dh and I were so shaken by the whole experience that it kind of brought us closer together, we would have even had sex (not BD but proper love making) if it was not for AF


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## Briss

Juniper, really sorry about DH but it actually reminded me of man cold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbmbMSrsZVQ it's quite funny but obviously not when it happens in real life. I agree with Astito you can try and get him to "deposit" his swimmers in a softcup


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## viccat

Oh gosh Briss, how awful :nope: It must have been such a shock when the police turned up.

How are things today - both for you personally, and between the two of you?


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## Briss

Looks like something changed after my meltdown last night, maybe hubby got it in the end that i am really losing any will to carry on. he was an absolute angel today. obviously we are both quite shaken by the experience (quite annoyingly our neighbors are now having a party of about 20 youngsters all drunk etc - am really tempted to call the police on them cos it's almost midnight and I really want to sleep) but in a way this unfortunate experience has brought us closer it's like we were against each other but as soon as police arrived we were on the same side and they were the enemy :) we are now waiting for Monday to get his SA and then we will decide


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## Jax41

Briss :hugs::hugs: you never know out of something really terrible it might just be the right thing to pull you two together for a change, God I so hope so lovely as you've (both) been through so much and the constant arguing, niggles, resentment just builds up and it's so damn stressful :hugs::hugs:

I know it's all DH and I have done since my big blow up last weekend, told him I hated his kids (I don't it just came out wrong :nope:) and that I'd wasted the last 11 years of my life i.e. our marriage (I haven't, I meant my childbearing years), made a right hash of it and upset him big time but like you it just all came out uncontrollably and yes I did admit it completely overshadows everything else about our life that is good or not good as the case maybe...

I think you, me, viccat are all at that 'how did we get here' stage :shrug: 'how did I let this happen' but we had our reasons (athough I admit it's hard trying to think of them sometimes! :dohh:) but they were good ones when we made the decision to be with our OHs, they had to be otherwise we wouldn't have done it, it's just time, and life's knocks that haven't been kind to our relationships along the way...

All I can say girls is never say never, not that I'm telling you to ditch your DH's but honestly, I've got a good few years on you so I really do have no time 18months max I reckon until I hit 45 so I'm sticking with mine, but you have time if you wanted to meet someone new and think of all that great sex!!!! :happydance: I'm envious :blush: Now if I get past being able to have a baby, then I really don't know about our future, I'm hoping we'll be okay but after my outburst last weekend where we even spoke seriously about splitting bc of how I feel about kids/grandkids who knows :shrug: all I can say is that for the current time it's frightened us so like you and your DH Briss it seems to have pulled us together.

Big hugs girls, and lots of luv as always :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

Jax, I am so hoping you will get your BFP soon and things will get back to normal, 

I just do not know anymore how I feel, one minute I hate him cos he is the reason I cant have children, another minute I love him cos he really is trying, then I hate him again cos he is not trying hard enough etc, it would been better if I knew how to be at peace, I am stressing out way too much. my Chinese doc gave me new herbs and I was not surprised when I read what they are for &#8211; "it is a commonly used herbal remedy for anxiety, irritability, stress, and depression due to the challenge of a daily life or premenstrual tension", he got it all from just looking at my pulse. 

My Dh did his SA today after 3 months of almost no beer and went off to celebrate&#8230; I will lose my peace for ever if gets home drunk and we still do not have the results.


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## nobump

Think I had a false positive with a clear blue test. Thought AF had appeared in the night. Put a softcup in. Went back to bed did the test in the morning. Thought it was negative. Checked after ma bath and it showed positive. Did a cheapy in the same sample hadn't but it was negative. Only day 23 but FF thought I had ovulated two weeks ago. Only good thing is hubby saw test and I talk through my charts for the past few months. Temp this month looked good but are on there way down. Be interesting to get in hubby's head to see what he thinks of things. But will have to get him drunk to find out. If not bleed properly will try in morning with a cheapy. Only had a clear blue as I am doing their trial this month. Was awaiting AF to show to start. :-D


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## viccat

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you *nobump*. Cheapies are unlikely to give a positive if AF is not overdue. Best thing to use (I believe) is FRER. Good luck!

Hopefully the SA will be better this time *Briss* ..... perhaps a bit of a blow out will help your DH? When do you expect to get the results?

As for me, well this month has probably been our best for TTC :happydance: I am not sure what has been the cause - possibly me being more determined and making the first move. Alternatively OH is hoping I'll get pregnant again this month, and he'll be able to avoid doing the SA! :winkwink:

Unsurprisingly, it means I feel so much more positive about everything, and feel much closer to OH as a result.... :flower: *Jax*, like you say, I'm remembering some of the reasons I love him!


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## Zeri

nobump, any new tests? I would be so excited if I had a positive! Thinking good thoughts for you.

Briss, when are expecting to get the SA results? Hope they're fair enough for you to move forward with IUI/IVF. Hope your DH stays off the 'no drinking' train too and doesn't get caught back up in it. Sorry to hear about the police incident - that must've been so stressful on top of everything else that you were going through with the OH. But it's good that it brought you guys closer. I can understand the 'up and down' emotions though... it might be difficult for you to really feel much better unless you have some hope on the TTC front, or with other things in your life turning around. 

viccat - I'm sorry about the lost bfp. I know a bfp would've been so exciting, if not for the circumstances under which it happened. It's good to know that you can pregnant easily though, and it's good that your OH is willing to try a bit harder! Hopefully it's just a matter of (a little bit more) time now!

Jax - How have you and your OH been since the blowout?

Juniper - the 'man-cold' thing made me laugh! My DH is the exact same way. When I'm sick I do everything I usually do...cook, clean, whatever. It's so funny that men turn into invalids when they get sick. But not so funny when it happens during the fertile window!

AFM - Still struggling. I got a near positive opk yesterday morning (haven't checked since) and DH and I BD'ed late last night. IT was such a struggle though. He clearly wasn't in the mood but had promised me earlier so I made him follow through. It wasn't the best sex....I had to do a lot of work to keep him aroused...but in the end he finally came. I'm not really hopeful about this month because the last time we Bd'ed before last night was 10 days ago...and I don't think he masturbated in between...so really stale sperm. :-( Wonderful. But I feel better to have a sliver of a chance than no chance at all. WE really need to keep the BD to at least once a week so that the sperm can be healthier. Sigh! On the positive front, DH is attempting to take his vitamins and exercise now, so hopefully that'll help in some way. I think he really needs it.


----------



## Briss

nobump, fingers crossed it's a true positive!! 

viccat, great to hear that things are going well, it would be fantastic if you get your BFP this month!

Zeri, you are still in with a chance! and actually quite a few ladies reported BFP after having just one random BD session after 1-2 weeks of no BD at all (against all rules on keeping the sperm moving and fresh) so you just never know. great news on your DH doing vitamins and exercise!

Jax, how are you doing? 

afm, just hanging in there waiting for SA results, been chasing the clinic every day but nothing yet. I cant even think straight until we know. we had really great couple of days, felt like we were on our second honeymoon, the police incident did bring us closer (in a weird way) and also the waiting game for SA results. if they are bad we are facing IVF/donor sperm/divorce possibilities. so we could not get enough of each other before we may have to part our ways. but as expected he got really drunk celebrating his 3 months of soberness, I was furious. he did not stop there and brought a bottle a wine last night, I thought my world ended after all we talked about here he comes again. tomorrow he has some social thing where he is going to be drinking and I am ovulating this weekend...


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## viccat

Zeri - sorry to hear about the stale sperm. Been there SO many times and ended up being torn between annoyed that it was likely to be old, and just grateful to actually DTD in that month :wacko:

Good news on the vitamins and exercise though. I've been really good myself for the last 6 weeks, and I know how much difference it has made to my energy levels and mood :flower:

Briss - sorry to hear that your OH got really drunk and upset you. I don't think it would have that quick an effect on his sperm, would it?

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for those SA results :hugs:

AFM - in the TWW now, and it is draaaaagggggiinnnnnggggg


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## nobump

Took a test on yesterday morning another cheapy First Response, and it was negative, but it was also out of date in 2011, think I must have bought the pack when I thought we were in with a chance of conceiving naturally!! Ha Ha fat chance!!! Will wait an test on Friday if I haven't started bleeding, need to go out and buy a expensive test... but only place that had one tonight was the small chemist round the corner from my house... want to but my test anonymous, so will nip into a supermarket tommorrow and use the self service. I still think I mucked the test up by not doing it right.... think I can get dipping a test wrong... it was negative... then realised I needed to put the cap on the end, did that got out the bath and it was a positive... sure I did something wrong... 

Had a bit of blood today when I wiped, bit nothing of note... 

Will let you know how I get on.

Zeri - I hope you can get hubby a bit more active, when I ask hubby if he has entertained himself, and he just clams up and says no... says he prefers the real thing, which is nice to hear, but how can I explain it's good to keep them fresh.... but then again don't want him doing things to close to O.

Briss - I think one slip up would be ok.. 

Viccat - good to hear your having a good month

:dust::dust::dust: to all.


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## Briss

finally got SA results, not great but much better than last time. count moved up from 1 to 11 million but morphology is 2% which is very poor. Motility is good (last time it was non-existent). I am still very happy cos it's a really big improvement on last SA and it shows that we can actually do things to improve hubby's sperm, the bad news is that over the last 3 years it was never within norm so not sure if it ever will be&#8230; Also the comment says that he may have Teratozoospermia (poor morphology) which is apparently not treatable and IVF/ICSI is the only way. hubby is disappointed cos he expected his "sacrifice" will lead to at least 30 mil. not sure yet where we go from here


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Jax, I am so hoping you will get your BFP soon and things will get back to normal,
> 
> I just do not know anymore how I feel, one minute I hate him cos he is the reason I cant have children, another minute I love him cos he really is trying, then I hate him again cos he is not trying hard enough etc, it would been better if I knew how to be at peace, I am stressing out way too much. my Chinese doc gave me new herbs and I was not surprised when I read what they are for &#8211; "it is a commonly used herbal remedy for anxiety, irritability, stress, and depression due to the challenge of a daily life or premenstrual tension", he got it all from just looking at my pulse.
> 
> My Dh did his SA today after 3 months of almost no beer and went off to celebrate&#8230; I will lose my peace for ever if gets home drunk and we still do not have the results.

Ohhh God, I know those feelings all too well Briss :nope: and the main thing for me is the not trying hard enough. I know that if he was giving it 101% for me and then I didn't manage to get pregnant I would feel differently towards him. I've told him this must be a million times, but the idiot just doesn't get it :dohh:

Really hope the herbs help you and they're not too yuk to take, I've heard they can be! Bravely, I've joined a local fertility/infertility group and one of the girls running it does hypnotherapy, now I'm not really into that but she's teaching us the most amazing relaxation techniques and after the last few weeks I've had they came at just the right time :thumbup: The main thing she said was don't lose sight of yourselves as a couple, wow that's a hard one!

How did DHs SA go? xXx


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> finally got SA results, not great but much better than last time. count moved up from 1 to 11 million but morphology is 2% which is very poor. Motility is good (last time it was non-existent). I am still very happy cos it's a really big improvement on last SA and it shows that we can actually do things to improve hubby's sperm, the bad news is that over the last 3 years it was never within norm so not sure if it ever will be Also the comment says that he may have Teratozoospermia (poor morphology) which is apparently not treatable and IVF/ICSI is the only way. hubby is disappointed cos he expected his "sacrifice" will lead to at least 30 mil. not sure yet where we go from here

X post! :dohh:

Hey, that's really good news that there have been real improvements :thumbup: One of the girls on another thread got pg and her DH only had 3% morphology (she went onto have a healthy bub) and my DH also showed this on the low side but hey they'll be zooming up there with that motility!

So if the bad news is in the last 3 years it wasn't within the norm does that mean prior to this it was? :shrug: With all the stuff that DH and supps are doing you never know what it may be like in the next 3 months :shrug: even better! I really hope he doesn't sabotage the good work he's done hun :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> nobump, fingers crossed it's a true positive!!
> 
> viccat, great to hear that things are going well, it would be fantastic if you get your BFP this month!
> 
> Zeri, you are still in with a chance! and actually quite a few ladies reported BFP after having just one random BD session after 1-2 weeks of no BD at all (against all rules on keeping the sperm moving and fresh) so you just never know. great news on your DH doing vitamins and exercise!
> 
> Jax, how are you doing?
> 
> afm, just hanging in there waiting for SA results, been chasing the clinic every day but nothing yet. I cant even think straight until we know. we had really great couple of days, felt like we were on our second honeymoon, the police incident did bring us closer (in a weird way) and also the waiting game for SA results. if they are bad we are facing IVF/donor sperm/divorce possibilities. so we could not get enough of each other before we may have to part our ways. but as expected he got really drunk celebrating his 3 months of soberness, I was furious. he did not stop there and brought a bottle a wine last night, I thought my world ended after all we talked about here he comes again. tomorrow he has some social thing where he is going to be drinking and I am ovulating this weekend...

Oh Briss!! FFS!!!!!! :growlmad::growlmad:


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## Jax41

Viccat - great news! :winkwink:

Zeri - God I know that feeling about dusty old swimmers just no good to us :nope: But on the flip side that's really good news that you got at least one BD in (Briss assured me too that ladies do actually get preg on one well timed one :thumbup:) AND what I'm most impressed with is you've got him taking vitamins and exercising, in fact I'd go so far as to say I'm envious :blush:

Nobump - good luck with the testing! :thumbup:

AFM - well after my mega meltdown with DH at the beginning of the month like viccat we've not done badly on the BD front and he has initiated all of it, granted it's been helped that as his Boss is away he's not as tired and able to do it when he likes it - mornings - me I'm beat! :sleep: Oh and I'm not believing what my ticker's saying I think I O'd 21st/22nd so not sure how it's worked out I've still got a day to go :shrug:


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## Briss

Jax, I totally agree on giving it 101% which would make me feel differently if we didn't manage to get pregnant. It's great that your relationship is improving and great news on him initiating BD!!! the herbs are really yuk to take but I started taking new herbs and they are just super yuk and smell up the whole office, people probably think I am weird. well done on joining a local fertility/infertility group! I think this is a great idea. I have this issue that I cant yet openly admit that we are TTC (and failing), very few friends and family know maybe it's part of the problem but I am sort of protecting myself from everyone feeling sorry for me, I do not think I can bear it. relaxation techniques are really good, I have no idea how to do that and how to meditate, I do not think it's easy actually.

I do not know what my DH's Sa was before, it's only the last 3 years that we are TTC and checking it regularly, the first one was 12 mil, then it got down to 2.8, then further down to 1 and now back to 11. if he continues with no beer, and supps I hope it will be improving but it does not look like he is going to not drink beer


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## viccat

Well done on the BD Jax! I can imagine the world is looking a more cheery place today. When you say you've still got a day to go, do you mean to get another high temperature?

Briss, that sounds like a good result to get the numbers up from 1 to 11 million. I'm no fertility expert, but that has definitely increased your chances 11 times. :thumbup: Do you think the results will persuade OH that staying off the beer is good for him? Or maybe there is another angle that might appeal to him, like his own health, or having a clear head in the mornings?


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## Zeri

Yes, that's a really good improvement, Briss! It's amazing that alcohol can affect sperm so much. From 1 million to 11? Wow. (I wonder if most guys know what alcohol does to their sperm and testosterone? :shrug:) Just shows how sensitive the little spermies are. I agree with viccat that it would great if your OH sees how much the alcohol is affecting things, and at least agrees to limit his intake somewhat. Tell him it's turning him into a woman! lol. I hope he cooperates. I think there are some things you can do to improve sperm morphology. I was reading that FertiliAID, folic acid and the regular stuff like a good diet/avoiding toxins etc can help. 

viccat - was checking out your charts. That's a really good BD pattern you have this month. Will be stalking!

Jax - yayy for your DH initiating BD! Will be stalking you through the tww too.

nobump - any AF or positive yet? :grr::witch:

AFM- thx for the comments on O/BD, but it looks like I geared up to O but didn't. Felt kinda sniffly two days ago and I think it's delaying things, as my last two opks were back to negative and I'm still getting ewcm. Grrrrr!! So frustrating!!! Now I have to rally DH again. The good thing is that now I can get fresher sperm (if he cooperates), but the bad thing is that my O is so late now! Today is CD21 already and if happens it won't be before CD24 or so. I don't know if that's good - when I m'c in 2011 it was with a CD24 O. :-( Sigh! I don't have any more opks either so if I do try again will have to go based on ewcm. BAh!


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## nobump

The witch appeared today. :-(
So I can start the study 
Feeling a tad pissed off. In bath post badminton. Have took a cheese cake out freezer for my dinner. Feeling bagged up after pasta for lunch. IBS flares up with AF.

Sounds promising with his swimmers my OH only really drinks at weekends unless we are on holiday. But he does have about 5 pints. But his last SA was good. Don't recall numbers but think I got him to start on maca root powder which I think if takes occasionally.

Good luck all


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## viccat

Zeri - I would take that as a positive! Like you say, you've cleared out his pipes, so fingers crossed you can gee him up for another go. I don't know about you, but EWCM is one of my strongest indicators, so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

I am really chuffed with this month - I actually think it is the most we have DTD since we first got together :blush: I am hoping it is a permanent change and not just a flash in the pan. I am also keeping everything crossed that a) he blimmin well gets around to doing his SA tests (I found the empty pots in the dining room cupboard yesterday) and b) that they are good.

Nobump - sorry to hear that AF has arrived. It's always the most miserable day of the month, even if you are expecting it. I had to laugh at the idea of you eating an entire cheesecake for dinner though.

What is the study?

AFM ...... still in the TWW ...... its getting tedious now .....


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## nobump

I opted for cinnamin oat so simple instead, but cheese cake is in fridge will have some later. I think just taking it out the freezer and thinking about eating it made me feel better. Get horrible cramp with AF... :cry:

The study is for Clear Blue, testing a new monitor, get to try it for a month, got to fill in a diary with details of AF etc... it came with 5 preg test, your susposed to do one on day 1, and then you have 4 more as the machine may prompt you to test during the cycle. Figure I would give it a go, see what results I get from that and see if it matches FF and the opks I have been trying with. Think the clear blue monitor that is on the market is expensive, but if this works might give it a go.. Might make OH get down to it a bit more seeing as I have to track it in my diary :happydance:

OH doesn't like doing SA tests either...


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## Jax41

Viccat, I know what you mean, I'm so happy this month, we have done more spontaneous (un-TTC) Bding than we have done in years, and it felt good, like you I hope it's not a flash in the pan and here to stay :flower: Don't temp viccat, so can only assume I put some dodgy figures in that's why my tickers gone haywire :wacko::haha:

Briss, how are the herbs going? I hope they're making a difference for you? Not sure if I've already said this but have you tried Rescue Remedy? I took it the other week and it really helped me calm those irrational fears, grief and overwhelming feelings of despair that I felt. Just a thought :hugs: After DH's 'dry period', hope he's had the worst hangover ever, puked up and never wants to touch the stuff again. I often say to my DH if you felt crap like the majority of us do after a skinful you wouldn't want to do it. Anymore news on IUI/IVF? 

The group is good, although I was twisted up in knots inside about going, thought they'd laugh at me and my age :blush: so when I made my introduction I did say, I'm a bit shy of being here as I must be the oldest at 43 trying to conceive my first and two voices piped up, 'you're not alone' nearly made me :sad2::haha: one was the same age as me, one a year younger but all feeling a bit 'vunlerable' about being in our 40s when there are 20/30 year olds there. But really everyone forgets your age, everyone's focus is on each others 'journey's' and how they're doing and sharing good ideas, age is soon forgotten... It's a real help and of course to know that you're not alone, whatever your age, the feelings of TTC are there... If you can do it, I can, why not give it a go?

Go Zeri, go!!! :sex::sex::sex::sex: Just keep trying to get DH interested, if you've not O'd yet then there's till a chance. Good luck hun, I'm thinking about you x

Nobump :hugs: hope the cheesecake has made you feel a little better :flower:

So my bag is packed for Barcelona and I'm off for a spray tan and eyelash tinit this afternoon. DH has said he wants to make the most of the days while we're there so up and out early, I've gotta be ready for action :haha: he's not leaving me behind!!

Back Friday, will catch up with all of you over the weekend, but I'm thinking about you and sending lots of luv,
Jax
xXx


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## Briss

Nobump - very sorry about AF, fingers crossed for this cycle. I've been using CBFM for 20 cycles now (does not sound great), sometimes I back it up with OPK and find it more reliable then OPK. I can say that I O most time on my second PEAK or the HIGh after and because my cycle are short I do not get to use many sticks so it's cheaper then OPK for me. I know that CBFM does not work for everyone and it's an investment. I got mine off amazon for 60 pounds but it's the sticks that is the main cost component. and again B&B is really great cos ladies sometimes share their unused sticks once they get their BFP. 

I am writing this cycle off - too much BD :) never thought I'd say it. basically hubby got really drunk couple of times this week and just before O (which is tomorrow), I was upset beyond words because I was hoping with his increased count we finally have a chance but he just had to go off and intoxicate himself. So he realised that he screwed up big time so was then behaving like an angel and agreed to eat whatever I say and BD as often as I say. so I made him BD yesterday cos I thought we would clear his "wasted" spermies and then have two days for fresh stuff to come in and might have a chance if we BD tomorrow morning on the day of my O. things did not go according to plan cos hubby as always took it to the extreme, we BD twice yesterday!! (cant remember last time this happened) and again this morning (my PEAK), I do not think there is any chance he built up sufficient sperm count in less then 24 hours but he does not usually initiate BD so I could not quite reject him? Mind you, I am not complaining! sex was really good just a shame it's not helping with TTC. I am very concerned about his drinking cos I am sure he is going to do that again. it's just that after he has a couple of pints he then cant seem to control himself and ends up drinking way too much. I told him million times that he needs to know his limit and if it's just half pint then he simply should not drink more than that. but would he listen!

my chinese herbs:

Morning: QING YING SAN https://www.herbsmithrx.com/traditional_QingYingSan.asp

Evening: XIAO YAO SAN
https://www.activeherb.com/xiaoyao/

they meant to clear excess "heat" which should ultimately help with egg quality and extending my follicular phase and calm my nerves as well which adds to the heat problem. 

Jax, that's so good so you've found some over 40s in the group - great support on this though journey and you are so right that age should not be the focus because some 40 year old ladies have younger eggs and better chances at conceiving then women in 30s it's so individual. I am told that unfortunately i seem to have older eggs for my age but there might be a chance I am just messed up a bit with all the emotions and if my chinese doc manages to clear the "heat" it might be that my eggs will improve and I will have more time to TTC. 

Have fantastic time in Barcelona, we really loved it there and food is the favorite part. definitely see some Gaudi but I am sure you wont miss it


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## Zeri

no bump - sorry about AF. :-( I like to indulge in comfort foods around AF too - helps to make me feel a bit better. That study that you're doing sounds interesting!

viccat - 9 dpo today...are you going to test again any time soon?

Jax - glad to hear the group experience was good. When I research ttc stuff online and sift through all the ttc boards/posts it makes me realize that they're so many women around the world dealing with ttc-issues...trying to get pregnant, not being able to get pregnant, obsessing about possible pregnancy etc... I'm sure a lot of these women look 'together' in real like - secure, well-adjusted, confident etc - but maybe a lot of them are struggling with private stresses on the inside. Kind of like most of us here. I don't share my ttc stress with anyone in real life - not DH really, and not with my bf, who has a fertility issue and can't have children. So I talk about it mostly here - thank God for you girls and B&B in general!  The support here is great but I think it's even nicer to be a part of a real-life group where you can share your experiences and get support and know that you're not alone, no matter your age. 

AFM- I think I actually did ovulate when I thought I did earlier, as I haven't had any more ewcm since last Thurs. So O was probably on CD20 and BD was early that morning (like 3 am), I *think". Good timing but not sure of the viability of the swimmers after that 10 day abstinence period. But we'll see. 5 dpo today. Have no tests and no money to buy any either so will be waiting it out.


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## viccat

Zeri - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! Well timed BD is better than no BD! :thumbup:

AFM - 10DPO and tested today - BFN, and no symptoms either so not feeling too positive about my chances this month. I am really coming around to the idea that OH probably has fertility issues.

I do wish I had recorded my symptoms last month though, to know what DPO they kicked in. :dohh: I became very thirsty, and had two nights with really bad night sweats which was my first sign of my BFP. I am trying to stay hopeful and keeping my fingers crossed that happened about DPO11-12...... I am also trying to resist any more testing unless I either get some symptoms, or AF is late (I am never normally late).


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## Briss

Zeri said:


> I don't share my ttc stress with anyone in real life - not DH really, and not with my bf, who has a fertility issue and can't have children. So I talk about it mostly here - thank God for you girls and B&B in general!
> 
> .

I second that, B&B is the only place where I can say openly what's on my mind and share my worries. I do not think I would be able to cope with LTTTC otherwise. Whatever my problem is I can always find people here who have been or are going through something similar and can relate.


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## Briss

Vicat, 10 DPO can still be early, it often happens much later so fingers crossed


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## Zeri

viccat - I agree, 10 dpo is still early. Did your OH ever do a SA though? It's quite possible your OH has a lower count. I noticed from your chart that you've had well-timed BD before, but no bfp...yet the time you Bded with your lover it was a bfp! That might suggest that your lover's count/quality is higher overall, and I guess it shows that sperm quality/count really have a lot of do with chances of pregnancy each given cycle. Or maybe your lover's count is very high and your OH's own is normal? It'd be difficult to know unless he does an SA. 

My best friend's fiance is super fertile (I think his 3 children were conceived from one night stands with exes). She had sex with him once on the last day of her period (day 7/8) and got preggo (think she O'd around day14/15), but with other men she never got pregnant with BD closer to O. It's interesting. 

Briss - so you had 2 BD's the day before O then? That's still a very good chance! They say that's the most fertile day overall....it would've been nice to have BD on your day too, but hopefully there will be sperm from the BDs before O hanging around. Even if the count on the 2nd BD wasn't much there still should've been a good bit in there that would add to the numbers from the first BD. And hopefully your DH's count is still on the higher side this cycle? Although his recent alcohol intake might've had a dampening effect. :-/ That was nice of your DH to initiate, though...although I guess he doesn't understand the building-up-the-numbers thing? Maybe he thought he was being extra good by giving you a 2nd BD? He really seems to be an all-or-nothing kind of person. From being bad to being super good, lol. I understand what you mean about not rejecting him when he initiates, since that's the behaviour you want in the long-term anyway. Yesterday DH initiated but I really wasn't in the mood but tried to play along anyway. We both ended up falling asleep, though, before things got underway - I think it's because neither of us were really in the mood, but I"m glad that he at least tried.


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## Briss

zeri, I am beginning to think that BFP is more likely if sperm is good but my Chinese doc thinks it's the other way around as long as woman is in good condition she can get pregnant with almost any kind of sperm count. I find it so hard to believe based on my own experience.

We had 4 BD before O!! two of those on the same day 3 days before O and they were after he dot drunk so I do not think they are of good quality. I mean 4 times in 3 days it's fantastic, usually it's 1-2 times a month! although my DH did it by way of apology for getting really drunk and cant conceal that he is really happy now it's all over and he does not need to BD anymore cos I O'ed. makes me feel so loved&#8230; but obviously considering his low count BD so often is counterproductive, he needs at least 48 hours to build up some count and unfortunately he does not understand this (although I did explain the process 100 times) he just felt so proud that he managed it so often that I did not have it in me to criticise him for not building up the count. I am hoping he now feels more positive about having sex with me and this may work well the next cycle.


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## viccat

Zeri said:


> viccat - I agree, 10 dpo is still early. Did your OH ever do a SA though? It's quite possible your OH has a lower count. I noticed from your chart that you've had well-timed BD before, but no bfp...yet the time you Bded with your lover it was a bfp! That might suggest that your lover's count/quality is higher overall, and I guess it shows that sperm quality/count really have a lot of do with chances of pregnancy each given cycle. Or maybe your lover's count is very high and your OH's own is normal? It'd be difficult to know unless he does an SA.

OH is still putting off doing a SA. Our first appointment with FS is early July and they have put an appointment in for him a week beforehand for SA. By hook or by crook I will get him there........ :winkwink:


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## nobump

Like the idea of clearing out the tubes to start a fresh in time for O.

Took advantage of working from home yesterday, CD7, hoping to get some action over the weekend... need to schedule another WFH day to catch DH before he heads of to work, first thing is to early, after DH work he is knackered... try to catch the egg...

Briss, hope your DH has turned a new leaf, wishing you success for the next cycle if you don't catch the egg this month!

:dust::dust::dust:


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## viccat

*sigh* ..... still a BFN. AF due in two days, but not feeling normal symptoms for that either, so not a clue what is happening. :shrug:


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## Zeri

Sorry about the bfn, viccat! :-( But hopefully there's still a chance! Lack of PMS symptoms can be a good sign. 

nobump - hope you get that BD action in! DH and I usually tired in the evenings too, which is why BD doesn't happen a lot of the time. When do you expect to O?

AFM- 8 dpo today but feeling relatively normal. No pg symptoms or anything. And no tests either. I would've been nice to have something to pee on but it'd probably be a waste anyway. 

Briss - how's your tww going?

Hi to Jax and Juniper! :hi:


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## nobump

Think I will O around CD14, hence need to WFH, but FF said CD9 last cycle so who knows. Will test with OPKs, if I can. 

Zeri - good luck with your TWW.


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## Briss

viccat, sorry about bfn but who knows maybe something wonderful is happening as we speak, hope is not lost until AF shows up and everything is possible.

I am seriously annoyed and upset with DH, as soon as I ovulated he started drinking beer every day :( he says he does not drink much but i am sure it's still damaging to sperm. 

I actually like being in TWW because I can dream you never know there is always a chance however unlikely. cant stand the pre O part when I definitely know I am not pregnant and also the last 2-3 days before AF - those are most stressful and upsetting


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## Zeri

Thx nobump. Sorry, what does WFH mean?

I know what you mean, Briss. I like the tww in general because the stress of O and timing Bd would have passed, and I can relax and dream of possibly being pg. it's always exciting to at least have a chance. The last 2 days of Af are hard for me too- especially with the deflated boobs and spotting that make you know Af is coming. Ugh! I wish we could all avoid that this cycle! 

Sorry about ur Dh drinking again. He needs to know he cant just jump back on the beer train after O/ he's still harming the sperm! Are you going to talk to him about it again?


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## pieceofpie

Hello Ladies, I find your post one of the most interesting since I have joined this site in about three weeks. It seems to be the most honest, mind you I have made a very good friend on another site.

I could not help to view Briss comment about DH drinking and would like to make a suggestion. Do your partner drink Guiness? if so blend Guiness with sweet condense milk, one egg, vanilla, nutmeg and cinnamon it will make a punch pour into tall glass and garnish with a cinnamon stick and sprinkle of nutmeg on top of foam. He will like and be into BD'ing like crazy including the fact that his swimmers would increase. Please limit the amount of times you give it to him also sea algae is great for creating sticky sperm use it in salad.

Sorry, I got carried away my situation is a bit different from the heading but similar. My BF is 47 and we are both very sexual my problem with him is he does not understand that I am woman and get sore after so much time. Last night we made love all night and it got to the point that I just did not want to do it anymore and he just would not listen which pissed me off because he wants sex the entire weekend and in the nights as well as his java (sex) in the morning. I tried blowing him but that just increase his desires and I am a woman who love sex just cant keep up because my mouth is bruised from all the kissing, my jaws aches from all the BJs and I am sore from all the sex. I visit my doctor quite often because I spot after a particular weekend session and still he does not listen. Anyone wants to share? I stop giving him things to drink or eat to increase his desires (guess I bought it on myself) and is more thinking of ways to decrease his sexual drive. 

Thanks for reading my post and I look forward to seeing more.


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## nobump

WFH means work from home. We make better use of my lunch time


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## viccat

Zeri - keeping my fingers crossed for you! I got a bit carried away with the POAS this cycle, so I'm going to try and adopt your more relaxed vibe next month.

Briss - sorry to hear about the drinking :nope: Gah, what is he like?!!

I know what you mean about the hoping and dreaming during the TWW. I think for me though, it does more harm than good, because the months I am hopeful (and I was this month) I feel even worse when AF arrives :cry: I didn't feel so low the months when I knew I couldn't be pregnant.

nobump - I am liking your working from home idea. My OH is more of a morning person, so that could work for me too. :thumbup:

pieceofpie - hello there, and thank you for the recipe suggestions.

As for too much sex, well, I really think you've found the wrong thread for talking about that, hon. We're all having the opposite problem around here :nope:

AFM ...... spotting this morning, so looks like AF will turn up on time tomorrow. After such a good month BD wise, it makes me even more worried that OH may have something wrong. It gave me the push I needed this morning to ask him about doing the SA tests. It does seem he has been thinking about when to fit them into his diary (as he travels a lot) so hopefully first one next week, and the second a fortnight later. 

Despite his low sex drive, I initially thought the problem must be me because of my age. Now I am more convinced the other way, but really just want to know. Our appointment with FS cannot come quick enough! [8th July - just over 5 weeks]


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## Briss

I've been trying to talk to my DH about the beer but it's just so hard, he gets defensive immediately and says I should be happy he is not drinking as much as before and if I stop nagging him he will be in a better mood and more likely to be able to resist the temptation. I am losing my hope again

the months when I knew I couldn't be pregnant, I felt borderline suicidal actually, it's like I have no reason to carry on, really scary feeling. although with hubby's count I kind of know it's almost impossible but at the same time I am so ready to believe in miracles 

Pieceofpie, thank you very much for your suggestions, sound very interesting. my Dh actually stopped drinking beer at home (I think it only happened once recently) but he likes the social aspect of drinking, he goes out with his colleague and then I guess 1 pint leads to another and before he knows it he is drunk. This week he was not drunk as such but I can just smell he's been drinking, I feel sick when he comes home like this. It's Friday and I am dreading tonight, his colleagues will definitely go out and I am not sure he will be able to just go home. Unfortunately, I cant relate to your situation, I know it's not fun for you but oh boy how I wish my DH was like that! My sex drive is quite high particularly before O and I can understand your boyfriend cos I can easily go through 4-5 orgasms in a day but unfortunately without any "help" from my DH, he is simply not interested


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## smurfy

Briss said:


> I've been trying to talk to my DH about the beer but it's just so hard, he gets defensive immediately and says I should be happy he is not drinking as much as before and if I stop nagging him he will be in a better mood and more likely to be able to resist the temptation. I am losing my hope again
> 
> the months when I knew I couldn't be pregnant, I felt borderline suicidal actually, it's like I have no reason to carry on, really scary feeling. although with hubby's count I kind of know it's almost impossible but at the same time I am so ready to believe in miracles
> 
> Pieceofpie, thank you very much for your suggestions, sound very interesting. my Dh actually stopped drinking beer at home (I think it only happened once recently) but he likes the social aspect of drinking, he goes out with his colleague and then I guess 1 pint leads to another and before he knows it he is drunk. This week he was not drunk as such but I can just smell he's been drinking, I feel sick when he comes home like this. It's Friday and I am dreading tonight, his colleagues will definitely go out and I am not sure he will be able to just go home. Unfortunately, I cant relate to your situation, I know it's not fun for you but oh boy how I wish my DH was like that! My sex drive is quite high particularly before O and I can understand your boyfriend cos I can easily go through 4-5 orgasms in a day but unfortunately without any "help" from my DH, he is simply not interested

Totally agree with you the social aspect of drinking is where it seems to be worse, my husband will often say i will only have 1/2 drinks but as i know when you start with 1/2 and your having a good time why stop. I am sure a few drinks a week is fine, helps relax etc, i keep telling myself stress also has an impact on sperm quality. I have been really strict with my drinking ie i didnt drink for 4 months up until may when we went on holiday but i might start having the odd couple of drinks but not in the 2nd part of my cycle. I am worried that i am turning down invites because i cant drink, which can make life a bit dull


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## Briss

Smurfy, that's what it is, men do not usually meet up for coffee, aren't they. it's the beer. My DH complained that he is losing friends because he became unsociable and there is no point in going out with friend if you cant drink with them. It's a sacrifice but I keep telling him as soon as I am pregnant you can drink all you want, it's temporary and really good friends will still want to meet you even if you do not drink. I used to love sharing a bottle of red with cheese or chocolate with my Dh but now all I can think about is him getting drunk and damaging sperm and I cant enjoy it anymore.


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## Zeri

Briss - I feel your frustration. It would be nice if your DH could self-regulate a bit more. Seems as if he has issues controlling the drinking once it starts - which I guess is true for a lot of men, especially socially - but it seems as if self-regulation is an issue with your DH overall. Meaning he either does things too much or too little - with not enough balance or control in between, kwim? Hopefully he at least makes an effort to stop/cut back a month before IVF though?

pieceofpie - agreed that most of here probably won't be able to relate to your situation, since we're all having the opposite problem (lack of intimacy/sex). I don't know of any thing you can take to curb desire, but maybe you can try asking on the main board?

nobump - yeah, DH works partly from work and the lunchtime hour sometimes works well for us too. 

viccat - sorry about AF starting up. :-( That's disappointing. It may truly be a sperm issue with your OH. It's good that he's willing to take the SA soon so you can know what you're working with and move forward from there.

AFM- 9 dpo and boobs feeling softer today... :-(


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## pieceofpie

Briss I grow up with a father that drinks a lot and I do sometimes gets a bit carried away at times and current beau had very little se drive until a few things were done and now I have a problem. 

I am part of a group where we encourage ladies on how to help their partners stimulate their sexual desires and you would be amazed at how simple it is. My ex was similar to your hubby and I got him to increase his sexual desires after which he went and married a Greek like himself. 

Sorry ladies to have invaded your group, point is taken.

Good Luck.


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## nobump

Briss, not easy to get men to stop drinking, greatful my other half only drinks at weekends when we are out, but he will have about 5 pints...

Vicat, good that your hubby is will to do a SA, good luck with your FS appointment too.

Zeri, TWW is a pain. Pre O I am like, life is good, we have a good time, can live without kids, TWW, am I pregnant, want kids, where the signs...

AFM, trying to sell my flat, got a message to say can a viewer come round tomorrow, had to say no, live with DH so not always easy to show my flat outwiht the open viewing, but said I had other plans which is true, could have drove through and showed the flat them traveled back to DH, but I am looking forward to getting some :sex: is possible Saturday morning, we are out for a b'day tomorrow night, so think it will be a bit messy, figure Sunday will be out as we will be hungover. Got to catch hubby when I can, as he is not always up for it, think he would rather just have cuddle... :hugs:


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## viccat

nobump - not sure what the process is like where you are, but any chance your agent could show people around the flat? Will keep my fingers crossed you get it sold!

(and my OH is quite cuddly too ....... which is lovely ....... except when I'm ovulating)

I'm interested in the chat about drinking. It has become such a central part of our culture hasn't it? I know myself, when I have had teetotal periods, that it feels odd at first, but then I start to adjust to being sober in alcoholic situations. It's easier now that I am getting older though - there are few offers to go out boozing for the sake of boozing nowadays! It is much easier to drink water at a dinner party than on a pub crawl :haha:

pieceofpie - any suggestions for increasing desire in a man who already eats healthily, takes multivitamins, exercises daily, is teetotal, and dislikes pornography or rudeness generally?

zeri - awwwwwww its too soon to give up yet, and I'm not sure boobs tell you anything about pregnancy (they certainly don't for me anyhow :shrug: )

AFM - the :witch: is here. CD1 and one more month for trying without help from the medical profession......


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## nobump

Viccat - sorry AF has got you. The estate agent can show poeple round, but it's £20 + VAT and hour, I need to give them 2 sets of keys, not sure about letting someone else show my flat, took me long enought to put it on the market. Open viewing is tomorrow so hopefully person can make that, if not will try and sort something else out. As I am doing the clear blue trial all my stuff for that was at my OH, maybe need to think about carrying it around with me so that I can easily head to mine for viewings and then not have to drive 50miles cross country back to his... 

Drinking, I only have a drink at the weekend, not lots, but we are going out with OH sister and she likes a drink... might end up drinking a bit more than usual... but think I might need to drive around noon so might not have the a much... good excuse.

Zeri - I agree who knows what signs are good/bad, everyone seems to get different signs.


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## Briss

piece of pie, can you please share the techniques on how to stimulate men's sexual desires? i really want to know, I am such rubbish at this, cos I always took care of myself I assumed that everyone knows what works for them but maybe hubby does not know (as opposed to cant be bothered) and needs a little help here?


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## Zeri

pieceofpie - I hope I wasn't too harsh in my earlier post. We'd love for you to stick around and share your insight.  It's just that I didn't think we would be of much help with the 'curbing desire' part of it since we're all trying to get our DH's desires to increase. Would love to hear any advice you're willing to give!

nobump - you gotta do what you gotta do! :thumbup:I've turned down requests (like my friend wanting to go out/shopping) because of 'anticipated BD' sessions too. In our situation you have to strike while the iron's hot! Hope you got that Sat morning BD in.

viccat - I live in the Caribbean, and many men drink socially here...women might have a drink/two here or there too. When I lived in Canada I was surprised at how many women and men drank just for the sake of getting drunk. It was like an event..."Let's go out and get WASTED!!! Woo hoo!!" I never understood it really, but I figured it had something to do with alcohol being banned under age 21? Kind of like forbidden fruit...so some ppl go crazy with it once they hit the legal drinking age. WE don't really have those restrictions here in terms of set drinking ages. With alcohol around all the time I think most times ppl can't really be bothered that much? It's like...'alcohol....meh". :coffee: Funny how that works. I don't drink much. Might have an occasional glass of wine at home or a BAileys or something when out, but usually not. DH would have a few beers when he's out. I think there's a lot more expectation and pressure for men to drink than women too.

AFM - thanks for the encouragement. Will continue to see how things go. DH initiated today - which was nice! Actually he's beem making advances all week...but I really haven't been in the mood due to being down about some financial stresses. But he finally jumped me today. :thumbup:It felt good to be jumped, lol. :happydance: So far we've done it a grand total of 3 times this cycle which is a lot more than the 1 it usually is!! Progress! :thumbup:


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## Briss

Zeri, it must be wonderful to be jumped :) you are quite right my DH does have issues controlling how much he drinks, I do not know why he cant do things in moderation, it's just his nature probably

Viccat - really sorry about AF. but good news that your hubby is doing SA! fingers crossed you will get good result and it's just a question of time before you get your BFP.

nobump, how the open viewing going? 5 pints a week is not great but I think it's less than what my DH is drinking at the moment, the less the better really. and red wine is better than any other alcohol 

re drink, I can sort of understand my DH because I also work in the city and have to attend various corporate evens where you are expected to drink, people will comment if you are going round with a glass of juice, this is simply not done. I break all the rule because TTC is my priority, I do go round with a glass of wine but I just do not drink it, I only pretend to. I do not go to the pub after work simply because it wont be possible not to drink and I know it damages my career, I just do not care. it's harder for my DH cos his career is more important to him than children. I am sure he will come to realise that children are more important but this will happen much later in life


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## nobump

Had a good time last night good to let hair down.

Drove through ice twewty mins to have a quick tidy.

Two lots in far. One couple seemed really keen. But will wait to hear from estate agent.

Yeah got lucky yesterday. Might try my luck again tonight but we'll see.

It is difficult to socialise and not have a tipple. I work on a business park so the lure of grabbing a quick drink after work is not there as everyone drives. Nights out are planned and often end up messy. I tend to head home early as I'm the only one travelling my way and would rather catch last train or get hubby to pick me up when if finishes work. Don't like getting a taxi or night bus on my own.

Pieceofpie - tips would be good.


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## Zeri

Good stuff, nobump. 

How's everybody doing today? Jax and Juniper...haven't heard from you in a while. Hope all is well.


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## Juniperjules

Zeri said:


> Good stuff, nobump.
> 
> How's everybody doing today? Jax and Juniper...haven't heard from you in a while. Hope all is well.

Hey Zeri!! (((Hugs))) to you for remembering me & asking if all is ok ; ) hi to everyone else as well.. I'm trying to catch up on the past few weeks but hope ur all doing ok??

OH & myself have had a very crazy few weeks & ive been very distracted, so really haven't been in a fit state of mind to be reading or posting until yesterday. I think we're back on track now amazingly.. So here I am! 

Am on cd3 & going off today to have day 3 bloods taken. Then next week am having an internal ultrasound to check follicles (NOT honestly looking forward that!!!) & next FS appt is the day after to review all the results I guess... And hopefully talk about what we can do next. I'm ready for anything they suggest at this point!


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## Briss

My Dh was away this weekend and returned last night, it was really unexpected but apparently he missed me and we made love twice!! I think something positive is happening to our relationship because it's just so extraordinary. although I did get back to earth this morning &#8211; had a major argument with hubby over holidays&#8230; some things just do not change


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## nobump

Good to hear you are getting some action Briss.

We attempted this lunch time, but some 'thing' was not playing ball! Grrr.... the fact upstairs started houvering kinda killed the moment as well. Don't know anyone who houvers as much! Will have to see if hubby has any energy when he gets in form work, but we have a heat wave here so not holding out much hope :-(, looks like we BD 2 days prior so hopefully have some luck with that...


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## Zeri

Is today your O day, nobump? Hope you get another BD in. That's irritiating about the upstairs hoover monster, lol. 

Nice to hear from you, Juniper. Glad to hear you and OH are back on track. Hope you get good results on your bloodwork too. The internal ultrasound is kind of weird but not really uncomfortable or painful. 

Briss - BD twice! Wow! He's on a roll! That's wonderful.  Sorry to hear about the argument - I guess everything won't magically improve overnight, but it's good that something positive is happening in the closeness/intimacy department still. Hopefully that's a good foundation to build on. 

AFM - had cramps yesterday and having more cramps and internal spotting today (13 dpo). UGH!! I tink the witch will be here by tomorrow. :-(


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## nobump

Think I O'd yesterday, so maybe still in with a chance if we get lucky tonight... no chance tomorrow... need to head into the office then at mine. Viewers from Sunday want a second look so fingers crossed they will make an offer.

Zeri - you not out yet.


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## Briss

nobump, good luck with getting some more BD. I find that heat makes me horny but it works the other way around for hubby. anyway, getting at least 1 BD 2- days before O still gives you a chance. Good luck with a viewers! 

Zeri, I hope AF stays away, cramping can be a good sign too, fingers crossed. 

juniper, it's great that you are progressing with the tests/scans etc. hopefully, you will get good results. keep us posted. 

afm, our relationship with hubby are getting better but the beer problem is still there, he had some again last night. he is due to repeat his SA in July and it will be interesting to see if his numbers get worse (and by how much) since he started drinking again. the Chinese doc also said alcohol is the major factor because it generates "excess heat" that is affecting sperm quality/quantity


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## Zeri

Stupid AF is here... with cramps. :growlmad: Ugh!! Tired of this. Sooooo ready to be pregnant already!!! :cry: Think I'm going to try the Clomid this month and talk to DH about doing more BD. I'll be 37 this month (which was my personal deadline to get pg again)...feel like we really have to be more active about this. REally didn't want to do the Clomid again (I've had so many already) but at the same time it seems to be the only way I get pg - not sure why. 

Anyway, just wanted to vent. Hope everyone is having a better day.


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## Jax41

:hi: girls, I'm back from Barca, had a good time although you were right Briss it could've been warmer. I definitely wasn't one of those typical English 'I'm in Spain so I'm going to let it all hang out' :wacko: I know you know what I mean :haha:

I survived 4 days with DH's grand daughter, she's such a cute little kid though, you can't fail not to want to be involved with her. And I survived the preg talk....I actually like her, she's very chatty and approachable but gave up when she ate and drank crap all the time then moaned about her weight, how good I looked and to cap it all 'after this baby then that's it I'm done'. I just sat there and thought, this isn't your fault but you have absolutely no friggin idea how much I'd give to be in your situation right now :cry: DH looked REALLY uncomfortable for me and had a massive guilt trip again. I think I may have finally penetrated his thick skull on how difficult this is for me and how much he needs to stop being a self controlling ass and just give me the best chance he can, he promised me he'll make me a Mum and I've told him I'm going to hold him to it even it if half kills me!! :growlmad:

So even though we had major BDing last cycle AF still rocked up yesterday, FFS just F off and leave me alone for a change!!! :growlmad:

Anyway, I'm going to try and catch up with all your news, hope your DHs haven't been causing you too much stress and anxiety :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## viccat

Hey Zeri and Jax - sorry to hear that AF has turned up again. Dang :witch: 

AFM - Just wondering if OH is going to stick to his promise of taking in SA samples this week. I am doing a very good job of not nagging, but I have just sneaked a quick peak in the cupboard where he stashed the pots. They're still there, so he's got tomorrow and Friday left. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.......

x


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## smurfy

Zeri said:


> Stupid AF is here... with cramps. :growlmad: Ugh!! Tired of this. Sooooo ready to be pregnant already!!! :cry: Think I'm going to try the Clomid this month and talk to DH about doing more BD. I'll be 37 this month (which was my personal deadline to get pg again)...feel like we really have to be more active about this. REally didn't want to do the Clomid again (I've had so many already) but at the same time it seems to be the only way I get pg - not sure why.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to vent. Hope everyone is having a better day.

Understand your dilema, I am mid 36 and feeling the pressure, how often do you DTD? i have tried doing more and we are doing well, last 2 cycles every other day for 8 days but as my cycles vary from 32-38 i think we have just finished short of final ovulation.


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## Briss

Zeri, sorry about AF if that's any consolation I am also turning 37 this month and I am still TTC our first &#8230;

Jax, welcome back! we missed you! this is so sweet that your Dh promised he'll make you a Mum, so great that he is finally on board. very sorry about AF but fingers crossed this is your cycle. 

Vicat, maybe you could still politely remind him about SA? men do not really want to do it so somewhat subconsciously they just tend to "forget" about it


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## viccat

Hi Briss, yes you may be right. I waiver between showing respect that he will do what he said he will do, and knowing he will likely forget (whether deliberately or subconciously) :wacko:

Oh, and if it makes either of you feel better, I didn't even start TTC until I got to 37. You've got some extra months on me - I will be 39 in 3 months time, and just really hope to conceive before I reach 40, because (being greedy) I'd like more than one! :baby: :baby:


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## nobump

On mobile so will keep it short

Zeri sorry AF has appeared.

Jax hopefully reality check will have done some good. Don't think men fully get the wanting to be a mum thing.

AFM viewing went well was female of the couple from Sunday and her 2 sisters. Think they liked the flat. They loved the view. Hopefully the make a sensible offer. 
Another failed attempt. There are something we can't control. Might try to get hubby to see doc. But think I jinxed things. Told him we were still in with a chance. Seems to work ok other times.
Will be a long tww.


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## Juniperjules

Hi girls.. Quick question for those of u that either are or have given ur partners L-Arginine... I'm almost certain there were posts about it a while back. Apparently it can help with male libido??? 

Can anyone tell me what dose to give? And if you've used it, was it in a powder form or a tablet?? I can only find it in powder at this stage.. 

I'm hoping to try it out next week around Ov time. I remember someone posting that u can give it to OH maybe 30-60 mins b4 BD for an extra 'boost' of libido shall we say??? 

Also, I don't know much about it in general, so any info u know about it would be much appreciated!

Hope ur all hanging in there.. Sorry there's no personals, am trying to type this quickly on my iPhone!!


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## Briss

Juniper, I had some joy with Arginine, I usually give my DH 1 gr a day and 3 gr around ovulation. sometimes I give him 5-6gr just before (about 45 min &#8211; 1h) we BD. I had some luck with it cos once I started giving it to him he was more likely to BD but 1 gr is not enough, only starting from 3 gr I saw some changes. also it depends on the brand, I gave him 2 different brands and with the first one there was no change but the second worked a treat. I give him supps in tablet form. I also got powder but he is refusing to take it. all I can say it's worth giving it a try. I know some mix it with maca. I also give maca to my DH but I did not notice any changes


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## Juniperjules

Briss said:


> Juniper, I had some joy with Arginine, I usually give my DH 1 gr a day and 3 gr around ovulation. sometimes I give him 5-6gr just before (about 45 min  1h) we BD. I had some luck with it cos once I started giving it to him he was more likely to BD but 1 gr is not enough, only starting from 3 gr I saw some changes. also it depends on the brand, I gave him 2 different brands and with the first one there was no change but the second worked a treat. I give him supps in tablet form. I also got powder but he is refusing to take it. all I can say it's worth giving it a try. I know some mix it with maca. I also give maca to my DH but I did not notice any changes

Thanks heaps Briss, can u tell me what brand you found worked well? I'm not sure I can get it in tab form here (Aust)... If I have a brand name perhaps I can get it on eBay for next month.... I'll go straight to the 3gm if it worked for your OH. 

Thanks for the info! ; )

Oh... & on the age thing... God it's soooo hard not to focus on numbers- I have this mental picture of a door closing in my face next December (2014) when I turn 40!!! I know it's such a negative way to think but it's hard to stop the thoughts. On a positive note, my mums friends daughter is 43 & just had her 2nd child!! She had her first at 41... When I heard about the newest baby I have to admit it made me feel good..


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## Jax41

Now listen forget the months, you've all got years on me so I'm expecting great things from ALL of you! :thumbup:

Viccat, really hope DH gets the SA done, keep the faith you never know he may just suprise you :hugs:

Nobump, you're so right :hugs: talk about hard work :wacko:

Briss, big hugs hun, hope you're doing okay :hugs:

Juniper, good luck with the BDing :thumbup:

AFM, I'm good :flower:

Ps. sorry this is so quick, just about to dash out the door to start the weekend! :happydance:


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## Briss

Juniper, I am also so happy when I hear news of over 40 getting pregnant and delivering healthy babies, it's so encouraging, isn't. the Arginine brand I use is "higher nature".


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## Zeri

I'm sorry to bring up the age thing....:wacko:....37 isn't really old at all..and I know I'm blessed to have a child already. I guess I just feel disappointed when I look back at my *plans" - which was first to have #2 by 35... then that didn't happen, had the m/c then the new plan was to be pg by the time DD turned 3....that didn't happen and the new plan was to have #2 by the time I turned 37...now that's approaching and no pg yet...it just feels like so much time is passing, I guess. :shrug: But they're so many women having children at 37 and beyond, that none of us are *old* in the grand scheme of things, really.

Anyway, I'm going to be taking Clomid again from tomorrow. STill have to talk to DH about it though.

nobump - all the best with selling your flat! Hope you get a good offer! 

Juniper - I haven't given Dh l'arginine, but it's in the vitamins he takes...but only a small amount. Did you get your bloodwork back?

Jax - Sorry about AF. That's sweet what your DH said, though! Wanting to 'get there' is half the battle, I think - at least he'll be willing to do what it takes so that you can be a mum. 

viccat - did OH do the SA?

smurfy - that's an awesome BD schedule! A lot more than me and DH. Most times we only BD 1-2 twice a month...but am trying to up that to at least 1 a week. Seems like a little but it's a challenge for us most times. :wacko:

Briss - how's your tww going?


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## nobump

Got an offer, but 10k under asking price.... and they wanted to move in in 2 weeks! so said no, want more, willing to drop 2k, and they can move in in a month, got to much on to move things sooner. 

As for age, I'm 38, hubby turning 49 this year... no kids, been trying for ~5years on an off... seriously for about 2... waiting for IVF...

Not had much luck getting hubby to take things... think he took some macca powder but not sure how much or how often...

Got some coQ10 might start trying that next cycle.


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## Juniperjules

nobump said:


> Got an offer, but 10k under asking price.... and they wanted to move in in 2 weeks! so said no, want more, willing to drop 2k, and they can move in in a month, got to much on to move things sooner.
> 
> As for age, I'm 38, hubby turning 49 this year... no kids, been trying for ~5years on an off... seriously for about 2... waiting for IVF...
> 
> Not had much luck getting hubby to take things... think he took some macca powder but not sure how much or how often...
> 
> Got some coQ10 might start trying that next cycle.

Briss, thanks for the brand! Will look into it. It def makes me feel less like I'm running out of time when I know of people personally who are late 30's or in their 40's getting pregnant. One of my best friends who's 39 in Dec is due IVF twins in Oct, my cousins wife had their first son 4 months before turning 40, another friend was unknowingly pregnant at her 40th b'day party with #1 & then had another baby at 42, & another friend was also 6 months pregnant with #1 at her 40th bday party... I actually have lots of examples of older mums when I start thinking about it!!!! : ) this latest one made me feel good bcos she was 44 when she had the baby just before Christmas, she's 45 this year..

Zeri, I have 2nd FS appt this coming week so will get all my test results then. Have internal ultrasound booked (to count follicles i think??)) for the day b4... Not looking forward to that, I hate anything invasive like that.. But I'm trying to be a grown up and thinking of the bigger picture! Also, I won't get the AMH results this week bcos apparently those results are taking longer to process at the moment. 

No bump, I'm 39 in Dec, OH is 45 in Oct- we've been together a VERY long time.. I wish we hadn't left it so late.. There may be nothing technically wrong, but even so, I could kick myself for getting to this age and now feeling panicked. But that's the dice that life rolled.. I didn't chose it, it just happened this way. I'm hoping that my 2nd FS appt this week will give me some direction. I at least want something like clomid.. I've had enough of 'just waiting to see'.


----------



## viccat

nobump - good to hear you have had an offer. The market is definitely picking up steam where we are, so I'm sure there'll be more to come :thumbup:

Well........ one of the SA pots is gone, so OH has done his first SA!!! :happydance: Even if it is bad news, I am pleased with this small victory. Not sure if he remembered to "do something" 2-5 days beforehand, but at this stage I'm almost willing to take a bad result if it means we have a discussion about needing to DTD regularly to get fresh swimmers. 

He is so intensely private about it though. Waited to do it until I was away for a couple of days, and has not said a pip squeak about it. It's why I always thought the lack of BD was an emotional issue and not a physical one. :shrug: Men, huh?

As well as that, it is sunny today, I am on CD6 and feeling positive - I hope all of the rest of you enjoy your weekend :hugs:


----------



## Briss

I started cramping yesterday, sure sign my body is preparing for AF - disappointed cos with hubby's increased sperm count was kinda hoping for a BPF. this week he had beer about 5 days a week! not sure what's happening with his count now, losing hope again. 

viccat, great news on SA!


----------



## viccat

Gah, not feeling so great today. I've just seen a photo of a friend (bloody Facebook) who has always declared she doesn't want kids. She looks suspiciously pregnant in the photo though......

Is it bad that I'm hoping it is just the camera angle and clothes making her look a bit round in the tummy? :blush:


----------



## Juniperjules

viccat said:


> Gah, not feeling so great today. I've just seen a photo of a friend (bloody Facebook) who has always declared she doesn't want kids. She looks suspiciously pregnant in the photo though......
> 
> Is it bad that I'm hoping it is just the camera angle and clothes making her look a bit round in the tummy? :blush:

No Hun... Not bad at all. I think we all have those moments. I recently saw an old 'friend' (who I'm no longer friends with- ended badly), & i saw that she was VERY pregnant with her 3rd child. She was never a very motherly type.. You know the kind u couldn't really imagine with kids.. My mum knew she was pregnant again but purposely didn't tell me bcos she didn't want to upset me. My poor mum, worried I'm gonna have a meltdown every time I hear someone's expecting : ( 

Don't feel guilty. With all the dramas and worries that we share in here, I think we can all be forgiven for those kind of thoughts... It feels much better to just assume someone is stacking on a few kilos : ) 
Ps... Hence the reason I packed in Facebook... Those sorts of things could frequently ruin a perfectly good day, & often did!

Briss, how's things? Did AF arrive as u expected? Got fingers & toes crossed that she hasn't shown up after all...


----------



## anointedq

lexus15 said:


> My oh doesn't want to dtd hardly ever. I have to literally beg/ask every month & usually get told he's 'tired' or 'tomorrow' which never comes for me :blush: He knows HE has control over this area & that I'll ask, but a few months ago I thought f**k this & never asked thinking he would want to get intimate, nope he wasn't bothered at all. Alongside this he's also stopped taking his Wellman vits saying it's giving him an upset stomach (he'd been taking it for a year with no previous problems). I'm slowly resenting him more, as it seems he wants to sabatoge us having the chance of another baby.
> 
> He's 44 with a sex drive of a 90 year old, I've have tried sexy underwear in the past but it doesn't excite him and I felt very foolish. When asked he will agree he wants another child but how does he expect it to happen if we dtd? It's not possible to use the cup & syringe method as he doesn't like to masturbate & must be the only man that doesn't. He'd prefer to spend hours on his laptop doing work, football or playing games than be intimate with me.:growlmad:
> 
> When I've tried to talk about this he clams up, but he did mention that when he wanted to be intimate with me I used to push him away, this was at least 15 years ago..what an excuse:growlmad:
> 
> We have a fertility checkup in the next few weeks to find out if we want to do IVF (can't afford it) as IUI, injections & clomid never worked. I explained to him that I'll be mentioning his lack of sex drive to the docs to see if there is any way they can help.
> 
> I am angry & frustrated at myself that I have resorted asking for sex (whether it's to make a baby or not) & that he feels no way to turn me down. I'm also saddened as I come to realise that I may never carry & hold my second child & our 18 year daughter may never have a sibling.:cry:
> 
> How do you other ladies cope with this?? It's such a huge burden on my shoulders which I constantly think about & question why I'm living with such a selfish man.


Hello, I will be 35 this month, same age as DH. I can't wait until he is like this. Personally, its me thats the prude and don't care much for sex. Now that we are TTC, I don't mind it but outside of that, I could care less. I would love to not have to have sex 3-4 times a week. I split and get sore from sex so that activity has not been favorable to me.


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## anointedq

Juniperjules said:


> viccat said:
> 
> 
> Gah, not feeling so great today. I've just seen a photo of a friend (bloody Facebook) who has always declared she doesn't want kids. She looks suspiciously pregnant in the photo though......
> 
> Is it bad that I'm hoping it is just the camera angle and clothes making her look a bit round in the tummy? :blush:
> 
> No Hun... Not bad at all. I think we all have those moments. I recently saw an old 'friend' (who I'm no longer friends with- ended badly), & i saw that she was VERY pregnant with her 3rd child. She was never a very motherly type.. You know the kind u couldn't really imagine with kids.. My mum knew she was pregnant again but purposely didn't tell me bcos she didn't want to upset me. My poor mum, worried I'm gonna have a meltdown every time I hear someone's expecting : (
> 
> Don't feel guilty. With all the dramas and worries that we share in here, I think we can all be forgiven for those kind of thoughts... It feels much better to just assume someone is stacking on a few kilos : )
> Ps... Hence the reason I packed in Facebook... Those sorts of things could frequently ruin a perfectly good day, & often did!
> 
> Briss, how's things? Did AF arrive as u expected? Got fingers & toes crossed that she hasn't shown up after all...Click to expand...



Hi. I'm new here. I have not gotten to the point when I feel all emotionally twisted when I see another pregnant person, but I do feel that way when I walk in the baby area of a store. :dust:


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## nobump

Hello, how's everyone doing? Viccat any news?

Got a new offer, and accepted!! When I saw a nurse for blood tests a few years ago and explained our living situation, split accross 2 flats the other side of the country, work was a nightmare and little bro was away in Afghanistan. Now that I don't care for work, we will be living in one house, little bro going to be based in the UK for the forseeable future, hopefully having things a bit more stable will help.


----------



## Briss

nobump, that's good news, congratulations on the offer. it's a relief that your brother will be based in the UK! 

I started spotting today, expecting a proper flow any minute now :(


----------



## Juniperjules

Briss, sorry to hear AF has arrived : ( 

So I'm sitting a the women's hospital waiting for my pelvic ultrasound..& thinking how sometimes it REALLY sucks to be a woman! Men get off soooo easy... I'm really nervous about it.. I know.. Pathetic... I'm a nurse & it makes noooo difference.. I hate all this crap.. My naughty little confession is that I've taken 2.5mg of diazapam.. & some ibuprofen with codeine incase it's painful!! I'm such a big baby... If I wasn't so bloody desperate to get pregnant I would NOT be here.. I'm sure some of you girls have been thru all sorts of invasive yucky procedures- kudos to you. I love nursing & hospitals don't bother me, except if I'M the patient!! 

Oh well.. It's all part of the master plan.. Operation Baby Maker 2013!!


----------



## Briss

Juniper, if it's just pelvic ultrasound it's very easy and not painful at all, is it going to be vaginal? then think of it as playing with dildo :) in a way it's the same thing minus the doc LOL it can sometimes be uncomfortable if your ovaries are "hiding" they may need to play around in order to locate them but it's nothing to worry about, the main thing is that can see that everything looks normal. good luck! let us know how it goes. I had cycle monitoring 3 times it';s when I had to come for the scan almost every other day to track ovulation, I am so used to these scans i do not even notice


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## Juniperjules

Well... Had my ultrasound. And pleased to say it was not an unpleasant experience. The girl was so lovely & made it all very comfortable. 

So my uterus looked 'lovely', everything normal there. She had quite a lot of trouble finding my ovaries!! I asked why & she said bcos they move around a bit! How weird.. Never knew that was possible. Ive looked online & it seems like if u are on the heavier side it can be difficult to find them sometimes, but im not so who knows why!. She had a particularly hard time finding the left, she said it was behind my uterus??! 

So.. I'm desperately trying not to freak out, bcos she told me one ovary had 5 follicles on the right, & in the left only 3.... I'm feeling an overwhelming panic rising inside me now. I've been googling & from what i can see, that's basically pretty low?? And can mean that even IVF could be a waste of time??? 

My FS appt is tomoro thank god- don't think I could stand waiting a week or more to see someone now that I've got those numbers in my head. The girl doing the ultrasound didn't comment on whether the numbers were good or bad.. And I had no idea at the time (b4 I googled!), but she did say 'I've seen follicles go from 3 to 23 from one month to the next'... Which made me start to realise that probably my numbers weren't great. 

Am now feeling very nervous about FS appt tomoro, & what I might be told??? I had a little cry in the car driving home, but im going to do my best to not even discuss it with OH for now. if i do, i know i will probably be tempted to be very negative.. so until i see the FS im going to hold my tongue. my OH is very optimistic about us having a baby, but he said recently that ive made him feel like im too old & wont get pregnant.... yikes! so im trying to be as positive as I can be ATM.

Wow, how easily u can go from being blissfully unaware to thinking OMG maybe I won't even get pregnant with IVF. 

I'd love to hear AFC&AMH numbers etc for any of you other girls, and your experiences therefore with fertility treatments etc?? I talked to the u/s girl about having the HSG dye test done too, (my doc said I can have it if I want to). She said she recommends me having it bcos she's seen so many women (including hospital staff she works with) who get pregnant 2-3 months after having it, even if no problems were found.


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## viccat

Juniper - Oh I am so relieved that the ultrasound went okay. Unfortunately I cannot shed any light on any of those numbers - I'm a month or two behind you with all these tests. I am really glad you are giving us all the detail though, so I know what to expect if I have to do this! :flower:

Briss - sorry to hear this wasn't your month. :hugs:

AFM - CD9 and nothing to report here....


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## viccat

How is everyone doing then?

Not much DTD for me this month, but feeling okay as our FS appointment is getting closer. Work is enjoyably busy and we had our offer accepted to buy our first "together" house at the weekend, so lots of good stuff away from TTC :flower:


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## Juniperjules

viccat said:


> How is everyone doing then?
> 
> Not much DTD for me this month, but feeling okay as our FS appointment is getting closer. Work is enjoyably busy and we had our offer accepted to buy our first "together" house at the weekend, so lots of good stuff away from TTC :flower:

Hey Viccat!! ; ) 
That's great news about buying a place- congrats! And glad the upcoming FS appt has u feeling positive. I feel the same. Although I'm nervous too, I figure she might actually get us across the line. .. Probably with very expensive IVF!!! Arrrgghhhh.. That's the bit I'm dreading!

I've had an annoying situation where I think I missed Ov with my smiley OPKs.. Started them after 11pm on cd12, & have done them every day since & it's now cd16. Still nothing. I'm thinking I might've actually Ov on cd13& might've gotten a smiley early on cd12 if I'd done one. I had the EWCM on cd13, and the 2 days previous had LOTS of watery CM. and nothing like it since. Am just hoping that I DID Ov & didn't have an anovulatory month.. Not that ill know either way now. It's just that things like that start to make u worry about weird things going on with ur cycles... Have decided to remain positive & go with Ov being on cd13. 

We did AI on cd 11, 12, 13 & 14. So if it was cd 13, then the timing was good. 

It's a bit quiet in here ATM isn't it..


----------



## Goin for it

If nothing else, your sharing and the subsequent sharing of others makes me feel a bit less of a "reject". Sometimes I feel like asking him "do you want me to go get this so we here else, or what???" (I'm 42 & he's 53 so their is an age difference, but I don't think that's the issue.) I think thy obviously know that did is required & that tiniest of pressure for men who's testosterone levels are no doubt dropping, really makes things difficult.

My DH is a physican and he said he was thinking of talking with his primary to see if he could get a testosterone bump of some sort. I'm ALL for that if it will help.

And yeah... When you go to the effort with the sexy outfits, etc. it IS rather humiliating!! I'm with a there!

If you find a solution, please share!!


----------



## Zeri

Goin for it, that's good that your DH is willing to make an effort to improve things. I guess he would already know this, but just be careful with testosterone injections...as they could lower/erase sperm count completely - not what you want when ttc. 

viccat - is your FS appt in July? Almost there! Congrats on closing on the house!

Juniper - by AI, do you mean BD? If so, that's great timing for O on CD13. Are you in your tww then? 

How is everyone else doing?

AFM - In the tww now -This cycle wasn't great. DH and I were sick with the flu for the first two weeks, so no BD was happening. Then on CD15 my opks started to fade in a bit so I made DH BD (to clear out the swimmers). I had one opk at home with me on CD16 and it didn't work! So I resigned myself to testing on CD17 and when I did it was positive that morning, but negative by 5 pm that afternoon, so it's like O snuck up on me. I don't even know when I O'ed? :shrug: Can anyone take a guess? Had ewcm on Cd15 but didn't see any on CD16 and 17, so thought O was far away. Wanted to BD on CD17 but DH fell asleep before I could seduce him....sigh! So not sure what my chances are this cycle, and it's a Clomid cycle too. Still keeping the faith though.


----------



## Jax41

Hey girls how you all doing? :hugs: Sorry I've been AWOL, school has been nuts, we convert to Academy Status on Monday (no longer a state maintained school) so it's been a round of funding agreements, leases, contracts and solicitors emails that take me ages to understand :dohh:

Anyway, after last cycle's emotional rollercoaster I had a break from the clomid and wow it's been sooo good! DH and I have had our usual 2 shags around O time (didn't bother to test, got EWCM and made him do it :winkwink:) so I think on a scale of 1-10 my chances are 0. I mean why break the habit of a lifetime?! :winkwink::haha:

Are you all okay, Briss, Juniper, Viccat, Zeri, Nobump, have your DHs been behaving themselves? Let me know you're okay xXx :hugs:


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## viccat

Hey Jax - that all sounds very serious and a lot of work! :wacko: Do you all break the champagne open on Monday then?

AFM - Timing was bad this month, with both of us travelling around Ov time. BUT OH did initiate twice which made me so happy, even though it was the wrong days :happydance: As a result I'm pretty chilled even though I'm spotting with AF due tomorrow. I guess it's because I never got my hopes up, plus I know we'll be at FS a week on Monday. :thumbup:


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## Jax41

It'd be nice to think so Viccat! :thumbup: I'm looking forward to the summer hols we break in 3 weeks time YEEEEEEEEEEHHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance:

That's great that DH initiated :thumbup: I always take it as a positive even if its not the right time. I know we're desperate for babies here but also the majority of us are also desperate for a normal sex life!

Viccat, I may have missed this but did you get the results back from DH's SA and is he going with you to FS appointment?


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## smurfy

viccat said:


> Hey Jax - that all sounds very serious and a lot of work! :wacko: Do you all break the champagne open on Monday then?
> 
> AFM - Timing was bad this month, with both of us travelling around Ov time. BUT OH did initiate twice which made me so happy, even though it was the wrong days :happydance: As a result I'm pretty chilled even though I'm spotting with AF due tomorrow. I guess it's because I never got my hopes up, plus I know we'll be at FS a week on Monday. :thumbup:

Yes when i had by FS appointment set up it did make me relax more. We went to see FS at end of March, he told us to bed every 2 days from day 14-22, as my cycles vary from 32-36, he said every 2 days due to my husband SA being low, he also told him to take vitamin c and vitamin e, so I felt in control as we both had a plan. Having my husband come and hear all this was so helpful and for the first time i really felt like we were in it together. We go back 5th August when if we are not pregnant we will be going to IVF :)


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## nobump

Hello folks.

Been caught up in my flat sale, everything happening fast, moved clothes and stuff out last weeked all the big stuff moving everything this weekend. Just started unpacking some of the clothes, having everything in one house is scary, I have to much clothes! 

Feel like taking a break this month, sale completes next month, my head is all over the place, period felt as if it was never ending, lasted until CD9, very unusual, usually 5 days max, cd 12 now, finally got down to a WFH quicky! think not pointing out where in my cycle I am helps hubby. 

Juniper, glad the scan went ok, don't know about the numbers, hows your TWW going?

Zeri, nothing worse when you just don't feel like it when the 'timming is right'

Jax, sounds as if you been busy with work, how's your TWW going?

Viccat, DH initialising, thats great, hope appointment goes well with the FS


----------



## viccat

Jax41 said:


> Viccat, I may have missed this but did you get the results back from DH's SA and is he going with you to FS appointment?

No results back from the first SA. OH has a private appointment there himself this week for another SA. I would expect we'll be discussing results at our FS appointment - which we are both going along to. :flower:


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## Briss

Viccat, congratulations on your house! when is your FS appointment? That's so nice that DH initiated BD. sorry AF got you, fingers crossed for this cycle. 

Goin for it, I agree with Zeri, testosterone injections may lead to reduced sperm count. there are ways to improve his T levels but not directly i.e. by getting his body produce more &#8211; exercise/building muscles; taking herbs like horny goat weed. 

Zeri, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you! Do you usually have short or long LH surge? I know mine can last for over 2 days so if I catch its tail it's probably already after O. Still, there are so many examples when ladies BD as they thought after O and got pregnant, you just never know really, in your case it can be anything between CD16 - 18. since you BD on CD15, I'd say you are still with a chance. 

Jax, congratulations on the Academy Status! love your "optimism" - on a scale of 1-10 my chances are 0 &#8211; I feel like that most of the time. 

Smerfy, it's good that you have a plan, although BD every 2 days may be quite challenging, my DH can only manage 1-2 around O and most recently a couple of more in TWW. I hope you wont need IVF though. 

nobump, good luck with completing the flat sale and moving things, it's always such a nightmare! hang in there. it actually might have been the stress of moving that made you have a longer period, 9 days does seem a bit excessive. 

afm, we had wonderful holidays in Rome and I think I ovulated on my birthday! we BD and it was all good (although I did not notice much sperm going in or coming out, hopefully it was all there, somewhere), I relaxed and stopped charting, taking herbs etc. I think our relationship is improving and the better it gets the less trouble I have persuading DH to BD. His sex drive is still pretty low but at least he does not object and tries to bring himself to BD. he was supposed to repeat his SA today but we did not manage to BD 3-5 days before to fresh up the supply so decided to postpone it so we get proper result. I am due to see my FS in July and getting morally ready to start the IVF process, although hubby is still not on board with this idea


----------



## viccat

Briss said:


> I am due to see my FS in July and getting morally ready to start the IVF process, although hubby is still not on board with this idea

Oooo it looks like we'll be going through this at the same time. When you say he is still not on board with the idea, what do you mean? Is he grumbling a bit, or actually refusing to attend appointments?

Feeling a bit low today, because I've been reading up on IVF, and I guess it has kind of hit me that we might possibly have to go down that route. I am annoyed at myself for not being more pro-active earlier in my 30s with this TTC lark. Firstly for not getting OH on board and trying sooner - we met when I was 31, and didn't start TTC until I was 37! Secondly for waiting 14 months to go the doctors.

I guess I always thought I would get pregnant quite easily :dohh:

Actually, being realistic, I am feeling annoyed at HIM today. :growlmad: I know I cannot just blame him, but by heck, I want to...


----------



## Briss

Viccat, my DH never liked the idea of IVF, he thought we can do it naturally, after 3 years and with his low SA it's just does not look realistic but still he is trying i.e. taking vitamins, cutting beers etc and his numbers have been improving so he wants us to wait and continue naturally but I am just so tired and my health is not getting better that I think we should get on with assisted conception (although I still hate the idea of IVf very much but so afraid to miss this boat). I have regrets too, we met when I was 26&#8230; and started TTc when I was 34, I mean he never wanted children but I guess it was supposed to be my role to get him where I needed him to be and much sooner than I did. the problem was that I did not want children until I was about 33/34 and achieved something in my career. I never thought we may have sperm issues, it did not even occur to me as a possibility. I started TTc with choosing a school and finding a hospital where to give birth&#8230; ironic


----------



## Jax41

Nobump - 'cos I've been so busy at work my TWW is whizzed by :thumbup: Every cloud and all that....:winkwink:

Viccat - glad you're going to the appt together to get all the results makes such a difference like you're not alone well that's how I felt with DH came with me to my FS appt back in Dec, it's like they actually get it and feel involved, well mine did for a time...and I know that feeling you're feeling today, haven't had it for a while but I hear you sister :hugs::hugs:

Briss - so pleased you're okay :hugs: lovely to hear that you and DH had a happy holiday (isn't Rome just the most amazing place?!) and that you feel your relationship is improving :cloud9: Maybe he feels inadequate over the IVF, that he can't give you what you want, but really it would take so much pressure physically and emotionally off the pair of you and then you can enjoy yourselves as parents - perfect! See I've got it all sorted for ya :winkwink:

Smurfy, Zeri, Juniper, big hugs girls :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Juniperjules

Briss said:


> Viccat, my DH never liked the idea of IVF, he thought we can do it naturally, after 3 years and with his low SA it's just does not look realistic but still he is trying i.e. taking vitamins, cutting beers etc and his numbers have been improving so he wants us to wait and continue naturally but I am just so tired and my health is not getting better that I think we should get on with assisted conception (although I still hate the idea of IVf very much but so afraid to miss this boat). I have regrets too, we met when I was 26 and started TTc when I was 34, I mean he never wanted children but I guess it was supposed to be my role to get him where I needed him to be and much sooner than I did. the problem was that I did not want children until I was about 33/34 and achieved something in my career. I never thought we may have sperm issues, it did not even occur to me as a possibility. I started TTc with choosing a school and finding a hospital where to give birth ironic

Ladies.. I'm cringing as I type this but I think I probably get the gold medal for 'waiting/wasting time/ throwing away my best baby-making years'.. My OH & I have been together for 18 years... I was 21 when we met. I could cheerfully choke myself (AND him) for wasting all those fertile years! But in all honesty, I wasn't ready for babies till I hit 30, & he has really only been PROPERLY ready & willing in the last maybe 18mths. I always knew that when he was ready he would be completely ready & his attitude to it all would be 100%, & I was right. He desperately wants a baby now. But geez it's taken us a loooooong time to get here. If it never happens it really will be our own stupid faults for leaving it so late!


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## Briss

oh juniper, I so hope we will all get our BFPs soon


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## nobump

Juniper, we in a similar situation, got together when I was 29 and he was 40, it takes time to build a secure relationship, and feel ready to bring a child into the world. Not everyone is ready to have kids in their early 20s. 

On the positive, was back at docs today, still got blood in urine, but bloods came back ok, so liver function and kindney are ok! But doc still not sure what the issue is, I explained about where I am with waiting for IVF etc... it's a young female doctor, who thankfully seems interested in our situation, she was asking if my lap had found anything last year, it didn't, said to her that all test on me come back fine, we are just unexplained! Sounds as though she might refer me to get a ultra sound, she had done an internal exam and all looked felt ok, she took some swabs as well, but smear checked out ok a few months ago so not expecting anything. Will get a letter in the post soon.


----------



## Zeri

Nobump - glad to hear that your tests were ok, but hopefully they find out what's causing the bleeding? STrange... Sounds like things have been quite hectic for you lately. Hope it settles down soon.

viccat - so when do you expect the first Sa result back? 

I hear you guys on the 'wasted time' thing. We hear so much of women having children later in life that maybe there's a feeling that all will be ok - there'll be no issues. I think sometimes the male is overlooked too. People focus more on female fertility after 35 but not the fact that men's fertility/viriility can decline as well with age. My DH was definitely more up to it a few years ago - now, not so much, and it makes me wonder about his sperm quality declining as well. 

IVF is demanding from what I hear but has a good success rate, doesn't it? Even though it's not the preferred route for most...in terms of the end goal of having a baby it can definitely get you to where you want to go. July is just around the corner. Hopefully your Fs'es can ease your minds a bit on the whole process. 

Good to hear things are better on the relationship front, Briss. 

AFM - I had a couple days of ewcm over the weekend ([email protected]/25) at what I thought was 8 dpo.... so I guess I didn't O when I thought I did, probably because I was sick with the flu for 2 weeks. DH initiated over the weekend so I did get in some BD, yayyy!! So hopefully am in the tww now. 

How's everyone else's cycle going? Anyone else in the tww?


----------



## nobump

Zeri - sounds promising, hope you manage to catch the egg.

Think I am in TWW waiting on blt chart to catch up but missed a temp so think it's confused. Only manAged it once round ovulation so think I am out. Away this weekend, tempted to leave thermometer behind.


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## Juniperjules

Hi girls, so I had my HSG test today. It was the most excruciatingly painful experience I've ever had in my life... Something that normally takes 10mins.. Took me over an hour. The first speculum was too big for me & I couldn't tolerate it. So they used a smaller one. But then couldn't see my cervix to put the catheter in. Eventually the head of radiology was called in to try. By that point i was in tears with the pain & starting to go numb in my feet, hands & face & go all tingly.. hyperventilating basically. She was THE most compassionate & lovely woman, I can't even describe her bedside manner and do her justice. She made a few adjustments & tried again. Once she got the catheter in & blew up the balloon that holds it in place... OMG I had cramping like nothing I've experience before- now I'd taken 2 x ibuprofen with codeine, 2 x paracetamol.. And it felt like I'd taken nothing at all!! Normally for AF cramps I take 2 x ibuprofen with codeine & within 20mins I feel nothing. But this pain was horrendous!! If labour pains are worse than that god help me!! But at least in labour u get stronger analgesics & a baby at the end! : ) 

So, my uterus was perfect, left tube perfect, but right tube only flowed halfway. Radiologist said that her instinct was that it WAS patent, but bcos she had to deflate the catheter bcos of my pain, that the dye didn't get a good enough go up that tube. She offered to try again if I wanted to. And I initially said yes. But then had second thoughts & asked her what she thought I should do, & she said she felt I'd been through enough for an hour. And again, that she felt the right tube was probably ok but just didn't get enough dye through it. She then said some lovely things to me about how my left tube & uterus were just perfect, & that she had her 1st child at 40, then twins at 43. She also whispered in my ear that it took her 5 yrs to have them so she understands my fears & worries but that I shouldn't panic bcos I still have time & am ticking all the boxes by doing all this stuff. She was just gorgeous. 

So then I went and saw my GP, asked for a script for melatonin which she gave me for 3 months. And I got my AMH results. They were 42.8 p/mol. Which means I was in the 75% percentile. Over 75% is supposedly an indicator of PCOS.. But I don't have PCOS. As the GP said, My follicle count was only 8, they would have known after my pelvic ultrasound if I had PCOS. So I'm not sure what it really means other than its not low which I was afraid of!!! So my crappy day turned out good in the end!


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## Zeri

Awesome Juniper! It's horrible that you had to go through so much pain... :-(, but good to know that your tubes are working! And how nice to have such a comforting doc...it really makes all the difference, doesn't it? Happy to hear that all went well in the end! 

What's going to be your next move? Do you have any more procedures to do? I read that fertility is increased after an HSG so hopefully this will be a good month for you!

nobump - all the best for your tww! You're still in with a chance, at least.


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## nobump

Juniper - sounds as though you had a tough time, is a HSG like a lap and dye? do you feel pain afterwards or was it just during the procedure? I was sore for about a week after my lap and dye. The consultant sounds lovely, make all the difference when you are dealing with someone who appreciates what you are going through.

AFM - I am heading or my folks tonight, DH and I are taking my mum and nephew away for the weekend, so will help make the TWW fly by, might even leave my thermometer at home. So will probably be on radio silence unless I have restless sleeps.


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## anointedq

Juniperjules said:


> Hi girls, so I had my HSG test today. It was the most excruciatingly painful experience I've ever had in my life... Something that normally takes 10mins.. Took me over an hour. The first speculum was too big for me & I couldn't tolerate it. So they used a smaller one. But then couldn't see my cervix to put the catheter in. Eventually the head of radiology was called in to try. By that point i was in tears with the pain & starting to go numb in my feet, hands & face & go all tingly.. hyperventilating basically. She was THE most compassionate & lovely woman, I can't even describe her bedside manner and do her justice. She made a few adjustments & tried again. Once she got the catheter in & blew up the balloon that holds it in place... OMG I had cramping like nothing I've experience before- now I'd taken 2 x ibuprofen with codeine, 2 x paracetamol.. And it felt like I'd taken nothing at all!! Normally for AF cramps I take 2 x ibuprofen with codeine & within 20mins I feel nothing. But this pain was horrendous!! If labour pains are worse than that god help me!! But at least in labour u get stronger analgesics & a baby at the end! : )
> 
> So, my uterus was perfect, left tube perfect, but right tube only flowed halfway. Radiologist said that her instinct was that it WAS patent, but bcos she had to deflate the catheter bcos of my pain, that the dye didn't get a good enough go up that tube. She offered to try again if I wanted to. And I initially said yes. But then had second thoughts & asked her what she thought I should do, & she said she felt I'd been through enough for an hour. And again, that she felt the right tube was probably ok but just didn't get enough dye through it. She then said some lovely things to me about how my left tube & uterus were just perfect, & that she had her 1st child at 40, then twins at 43. She also whispered in my ear that it took her 5 yrs to have them so she understands my fears & worries but that I shouldn't panic bcos I still have time & am ticking all the boxes by doing all this stuff. She was just gorgeous.
> 
> So then I went and saw my GP, asked for a script for melatonin which she gave me for 3 months. And I got my AMH results. They were 42.8 p/mol. Which means I was in the 75% percentile. Over 75% is supposedly an indicator of PCOS.. But I don't have PCOS. As the GP said, My follicle count was only 8, they would have known after my pelvic ultrasound if I had PCOS. So I'm not sure what it really means other than its not low which I was afraid of!!! So my crappy day turned out good in the end!




I'm sorry you had a rough time with your HSG. But it's good news you received so I'm happy for you. I freaked out after reading others experience with the HSG. Many women have a hard painful experience. :dust:


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## viccat

Oh my gosh, Juniperjules, I cannot believe you sound so positive after a rotten day! I guess at least you know now how things stand, and the news sounds good :thumbup: What happens next for you?

nobump - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you - enjoy your break :flower:

zeri - I always go on EWCM, so well done on BD'ing - I've got my fingers crossed for you too!

AFM - feeling more positive yesterday and today. I had fallen off the waggon and not been to the gym or taken my vitamins for a week or two. Back on the waggon again now with my vitamins and went to the gym for the first time in ages yesterday. I think I am riding the endorphin and vitamin B high :haha: It is CD5 so I must wash the sexy nightie in preparation.

Still waiting for the GP to phone with SA results - I think they have got themselves in a right muddle with who is doing what. OH tried to go to give a second sample at the FS on Tuesday, but they turned him away and said his GP would give him the results of the first one taken a few weeks ago :shrug: The FS will ask for another sample if they consider it necessary. The results must be _*somewhere*_, and our appointment is on Monday when they surely cannot ignore results that are in their computer system?!

I feel at the moment like we are hurtling towards full IVF when we haven't properly established what (if anything) is wrong. I'm probably in denial, but still keep thinking that there's a strong possibility that we can conceive naturally if we just DTD more! :blush:


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## Juniperjules

Hi girls, yep the HSG was awful. And I've still got some discomfort today as well. Lower tummy is a bit sensitive & some AF like achy feeling in my lower back too. Doesn't help that I decided to do the Jillian Michaels 'ripped in 30' DVD the day before my HSG... Bad idea.. Very bad idea.. My whole body feels like I've been hit by a bus!!! 

Zeri my next thing I guess is I'm gonna go back to the FS at the hospital & just talk to them about the HSG & AMH results. I'm really only doing it bcos if they want to to anything else it'll be free bcos its thru the public healthcare system. I have an appt to see a top notch FS privately in Sept, but ill have to pay for anything that happens there. 

No bump, i was about to start temping again.. did it for 3 days and cant honestly be stuffed with it. i work shifts so its difficult & really disturbs my sleep. i admire u for managing it at all! 

im not sure if the HSG was the same as wot u had done. It was basically just a catheter (thin tube) into my cervix & the clear iodine sent into the uterus via the tube. Then they take images of where the dye goes. Your 100% awake.. Seriously, I felt like I needed at least a twilight anaesthetic having it done. Bcos oral pain relief options just didn't cut it for me. I was kind of embarrassed bcos I'm a nurse myself & I was practically breaking the nurses fingers bcos 2 of them were holding my hands trying to distract me. I don't want to scare others off having it done, but for me it was an hour of nerve shattering pain. It didn't hurt afterwards really until later in the night when I had to take some ibuprofen & lie with a hot water bottle. And today like I said there's some tenderness & a teeny bit of ongoing bleeding since yesterday. I honestly don't know why it was so horrendously painful for me. Some girls say it's just like when they get AF. But it was much much worse than AF for me, the cramping once the catheter was put it was so bad that I was about to just tell them to forget about it- I couldn't take much more. I guess every persons body is different & reacts differently. My uterus did not like being messed with at all!! 

anointedq, thanks for the thoughtful words. I just hope I'm not asked to have another one down the track. I'd have to ask them to give me some stronger drugs- I couldn't do yesterday again! 

Viccat, I think getting the AMH results just made my day! I was totally convinced the number would be bad, so I was pleasantly shocked that it was 42.8 - mind u that number is also a bit ominous bcos its so high. Ill just have to see what a FS says about it. 
Your poor OH going in to take a sample & being turned away! Some poor communication happening there I think. Poor guy, he tries to do the right thing... 
I totally hear u on the hurtling towards IVF thing.. I feel a bit the same. And am freaking out about the cost involved. Remind me what tests have you had done?? Surely you'll have to get some decent tests done b4 you go anywhere near IVF??? Glad ur mostly feeling positive though! Good work!!


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## Briss

Juniperjules, sorry you had such awful time at HSG! I guess I was lucky I did not feel a thing, just some very mild AF like cramping and was done in 15 min with no painkillers (it was very different when I had lap&Dye/hysteroscopy &#8211; was recovering for 2 weeks after that and a year later still not quite there yet). the main thing that it all looked good so you can continue TTC knowing you have a chance. your AMh is super high, I do not think I've ever seen such results. what does it mean? you have very young ovaries and huge reserves? sounds really good.

Looks like my DH missed me cos he initiated BD twice since my return!! Things are looking up but the beer problem is still there and he did not take any vitamins while I was away. tbh I did not feel like BD cos last few days before AF I am usually stressed, upset and have no sex drive but I could not quite say no to him, could I? after all, I need him to have positive memories about having sex with me for the forthcoming ovulation. 

I am due to repeat my FSH (if I manage to figure out what is my CD3 this cycle) and see my FS next week, I guess we will be moving on with IVF


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## Juniperjules

Hey Briss, great to hear ur DH initiated!! It's a positive step. And u were right to push thru even when u weren't really up for it.. Women & men really are a different breed aren't we! When men can't be bothered or don't feel like doing something, they just say no. Straight up. But us girls somehow find a way to do things that we'd rather not bcos we see a bigger picture & that our actions today might affect something tomoro, the next day or next week even... Maybe that makes us smarter!! ; ) I'm gonna stick with that theory! 

I have no idea at all wot my AMH means. I've been Dr Googling but everything says high numbers indicates likelihood of PCOS. And I could be proven wrong but I'm pretty certain I don't have it. I've got friends with PCOS so I know a fair bit about it. I don't have painful periods, no acne, no excess hair, periods always regular.. Who knows! 
Maybe I'm asymptomatic but have it anyway. Hope not! 

What do u think ur next step will be? I can't remember what you have / haven't tried already, my brains a bit fried!


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## Briss

I am still giving Chinese medicine a go while hubby is coming to terms with IVF. I need him to be in agreement before we embark on this journey, I think we've tried more or less everything we could naturally


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## nobump

Just feel like screaming. Weekend away. BD count 0. What do I need to do. With family have been touring around London no stop. And it's a bit hot but come on. What do I need to do. Not a happy bunny. Arghh!


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## Briss

nobump, very sorry about no BD, so frustrating

AF got me yesterday so am going through very hard time, crying non stop and rethinking my whole life, usual for the first few days, hoping it will get better soon.


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## nobump

Thanks Briss feel better after a moan. On a stifling hot train for the next 4 hours. 

AF is always a killer. Nothing worse than knowing it's not work again. But it's the start of a new cycle. Chin up


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## viccat

Briss said:


> AF got me yesterday so am going through very hard time, crying non stop and rethinking my whole life, usual for the first few days, hoping it will get better soon.

Awww Briss :hugs: I know there is nothing I can say that will take the awful feeling away those first few days when AF hits. If it is any comfort, at least I have an idea of how you feel...


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## nobump

Yeah no TWW here just count down to AF. Not due til Friday. Hate this time of the cycle. Their is nothing else you can do but wait and then she appears and slaps you in the face.


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## Juniperjules

No bump, : ( really sucks when there's no BD, I had the same in May, made me feel kind of panicked bcos I felt like i was losing a month. It'll feel crappy now, but next month you'll forget it happened.. Mind you, it does make u more determined to make certain u get some BD the following month. 

Briss, the day AF arrives is so incredibly tough. No matter how realistic we try to be & convince ourselves that 'symptoms' mean nothing, there's always that little voice in ur head saying 'maybe' there's a chance. It really hurts. It's such a blow to ur optimism. 

AFM, about to Ov in a day or 2 here.. OH knows & is up for it. Gonna try using softcups & preseed this month. OH's SA was great, but I always feel his volume isn't fab. Maybe preseed will help?? Dunno but worth a try?


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## viccat

Juniper - I am keeping my fingers crossed for you with the BD'ing :flower: Get yer sexy nightie out!

AFM - Today is the day - first appointment with the FS. Feeling nervous but excited too. Not a clue what will happen, but I am hopeful :thumbup:


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## Juniperjules

Oooh!!! Viccat!!! How exciting!! Your first FS appt!! Remind me is OH going too?? Its a bit nervewracking, but i know it makes me feel like its not all just being left up to chance once a specialist is involved. And remember, it doesnt mean you HAVE to do anything, just that now youll have more opinions & options to choose from! 

Will be waiting to hear how it goes.... Good Luck!


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## Briss

Viccat, good luck with your appointment! keep us posted.

afm, did my bloods today, now anxiously waiting for the results, my next app with FS on Thursday if FSH got down I will get my IVF referral but if it's still high not even sure what our options are.


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## Zeri

nobump - sorry to hear you didn't get any BD in. I hate when that happens- it's like you have nothing to hope for in the tww..nothing to do but wait for AF to show. I hope your next cycle is better.

viccat - hope your appt goes well!

Juniper - Preseed and Softcups should help get all of DH's swimmers to where they need to go. Good luck!!

Briss - sorry about AF coming... :-( I so know how you feel. HOpefully you won't have many more AF cycles, with your IVF journey coming up soon. HUGS!!! 

My tww is over as well. AF showed up Saturday in the middle of getting ready for my best friend's wedding - I was the matron of a honour so was really busy making last minute preparations, so it was quite a joy to have my period show up on that day too. :- I guess I really did ovulate that first time I thought I did -and not when I had the ewcm a few days ago. URGHH!! this cycle was so confusing becaue I didn't have enought opks. And it was a Clomid cycle too. :-( What a waste. :-( So on to the next! I'm going to have to talk to DH seriously about BD. I can't afford to be wasting Clomid cycles like this. I do notice that my AF is a lot heavier this cycle...I guess because of the Cliomid? I wonder if that means I had a better egg/higher progesterone? hmmm...


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## viccat

Awwww Zeri - sorry about AF. I hate the way our bodies does this to us!

AFM - wellllllllllll ....... the appointment was a lot of waiting about. We got OH's sperm results, which weren't great, but not totally disastrous. It seems he's got a lot of them which is good, but he could do with some more active swimmers and better shaped sperm. At least it gives us something to work with :thumbup:

They also did an ultrasound and it seems my womb and ovaries are all present and correct, and there was an obviously follicle ripening on my right ovary. The odd thing was that it measured 25mm which means I should be about to ovulate. But I'm only CD8 :shrug: Maybe all this time, I've been hitting the wrong window? I do get a couple of noticeable LH surges a month, one of which is about now.

Anyways, OH got a bit of a hump on (as expected) and was ready to blow up, but I just couldn't face him telling me I had said the wrong thing, or the right thing but in the wrong way. He gets very like this when he finds stuff difficult, and usually I have to give him time to calm down. He is obviously upset and is not taking the "not great sperm result" badly, bless him :nope: We'll get there though....

Next steps are an HSG for me in 6 weeks time (NOT looking forward to that one, but I really want to cross everything off) and another sperm test for his nibs.

I'll give him a couple of days to calm down, and then push for a proper conversation about what happened, and get him onto some Wellman supplements too. He's pretty health conscious, so that shouldn't be difficult. I just cannot believe I didn't think to do it before now! :dohh:

After that we return to the FS and he is recommending IVF. Not sure how I feel about all of the drugs and messing about with my body when it is actually pretty healthy. So I need to let that idea sit in my head for a bit.....


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## viccat

*sigh* OH is barely speaking after yesterday's appointment.

And I think I ovulated today.

I don't know whether I can face even trying to get him to DTD tonight :nope:


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## Zeri

Awww...viccat! Is he still upset about the results? do you think he'll come around to Bding later? If not, maybe you'd stand a better chance next cycle or so anyway, once he gets on some supplements/vitamins. It was next month you were thinking of doing IVF, right?


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## viccat

Hi Zeri - yes, he was still upset about the results - understandably.

He ended up working himself into a tizzy and then we FINALLY talked about it properly last night ........ way after we both should have been asleep. Bless him, he is definitely the emotional one of the two of us! At least we managed to talk it through and enjoy some black humour about his swimmers going around in circles.

I really feel like we cleared the air, plus I managed to persuade him to DTD, so feeling a happy bunny today :happydance: 

I'm not excited about the idea of IVF at the moment, so am trying to make the most of what opportunities remain naturally. I need to do some more research I think to understand what our probability is without IVF. Being realistic I don't think there is much to improve as the main issue is his morphology (only 2% normally shaped). 

With that coupled to my age it seems like IVF is the only solution, but I dread messing my body about with all of the synthetic hormones :wacko:


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## viccat

It's all gone quiet again - how is everyone doing?


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## Juniperjules

Hey Viccat, I'm here! It is quiet isn't it.. I'm in the dreaded tww now. We did 3 days in a row of BD (well our version!) tues, wed & thurs. got a +OPK on wed so Ov on Thursday I guess. 

Wot about yourself??


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## Briss

sorry ladies, I've been quiet cos I got some very upsetting news and still trying to figure out how to deal with it. when I finally morally agreed to IVF, my FSH has gone up to 19!! so our FS said we are not eligible for IVF funding, and even though my DH's sperm improved it's still not enough for IUI. she sounded like it was too late now and I missed my boat with IVF. I am very upset because since last year I've made very dramatic lifestyle changes, was taking tones of vitamins, did yoga, had acu/herbs, gave up coffee etc and all of this just made things worse for me cos 19 is my worst FSH ever! I could not stop crying yesterday and got myself into a terrible state (was all shaking and vomiting non stop), had to leave work early and just stay in bed. I just do not know what to do anymore&#8230; I feel like I've tried everything&#8230; I probably need some counseling as to how I will live with myself if I do not have children because I just do not know how


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## viccat

Awww Briss - sorry to hear your bad news :hugs: I am a bit puzzled about the response about eligibility - you are in the UK aren't you? If so, you might find the latest guidelines helpful - it's a bit heavy reading initially, but makes increasing sense to me as I learn about infertility treatments.

https://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/14078/62769/62769.pdf

Ooooo - I've just found this one as well. Definitely food for thought: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ntle-touch-2277983.html?origin=internalSearch

Juniper - 3 days in a row?! Check you out! :thumbup: Really pleased for you, hon :flower: Now just the TWW to get through!

AFM - One well timed BD this month, and I am mostly reading :coffee: about fertility treatments. We're talking things over more, and OH is taking his Wellman supplements, so at least I feel like we're doing *something*. I am currently swinging between wild optimism and the occasional thought that actually, it might not be in my destiny to become a parent.


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## Zeri

Briss, I'm really sorry to hear what you're going through. :-( I can hear your pain. I'm confused about the link to FSH and IVF though....why is your number considered bad in relation to IVF? Can you not do IVF at all anymore - or is it just this FS who's hesitant? Sooo sorry. There must be something else you can do, though. I know you were hesitant about Clomid.... could that be an option for you and your DH? I read it can help increase sperm count...and it would also help increase your fertility. I know you have cysts but once you're monitored you might be ok?

Juniper - 3 BDs in a row... that's awesome! #jealous. Sounds like your chances are really great this month!

viccat - glad y'all were able to talk it out. I guess your OH just needed some time to process things. And yayy for having a chance this month!

AFM - just here hanging out at CD8....nothing much happening except I'm taking the Clomid again this month. I really need to talk to DH about BD too, so I don't waste another (Clomid) cycle. Sigh!! Really itching for another baby badly. My best friend got married last weekend and stayed at my house the week before. She has a little baby boy and he's just so gorgeous and cuddly and sweet. Plus my DD is becoming sweeter and sweeter as the days go by. Having a child is really a precious thing... it's my prayer that we all have our pregnancy dreams come true sometime soon!! We have to do all we can ladies, to make it happen..... I know we're all doing what we can, and it's hard... Let's not give up... it really is SO worth it... :flower:


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## Juniperjules

Ahhhh.. Girls I'm in here to vent & let off some steam.. I'm in a feral mood today. Was a bit yesterday too. Well yesterday i kept crying listening to music but had to hide it from OH bcos he thinks i cry to much & too easily. but felt easily emotional. am missing my sister who is living in London atm & yesterday the music was making me tear up & miss her more. She's my best friend. We've never lived this far apart in our entire lives & I hate it. 

Today Am 5dpo & feel so irritable that I could cheerfully put my fist thru a wall. Am picking fights with OH.. And I know I'm doing it... Come to think of it I could put my fist thru him too I think ; ) 

Yesterday I started feeling like I could be getting a cold. Today I've got sore glands & drippy nose (sorry, tmi!), stuffy dizzy head.... And a BAD temper. I keep giving OH evil looks & he's started laughing at me and saying 'what's wrong with you today???'... I know im being purposely awkward & annoying the f*#k out of him... Just can't seem to stop myself.. 

Guess it's PMS kicking in, plus a cold. Not a good combination. Just feel like crawling under the blankets & not speaking to anyone. Today it feels like ill never have a normal life like everyone else. Never be the pregnant one. Never have a family like everyone else. Am sick of feeling like the odd one out. Like there's a club that ill never be a member of. I'm sick of things never just coming naturally or easily & everything feeling like hard work. 

Think I better up my dose of Evening primrose oil.. PMS turns me into a nightmare..


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## viccat

Oh Juniper, I feel sorry for you with your PMT, but your message did make me giggle a little because I've just been the same the last couple of days. I always get like this about a week after ovulation. And OH keep asking "are you okay, you seem unhappy" just winds me up more. This morning I had a rant at him about leaving his jeans pockets full of change which falls on the floor and wakes me up during the night. He looked at me like I had the head of a werewolf and kept a good 5 foot away for the rest of the morning :haha:

How far are you from London? Is it feasible to have a visit to go see your sister?

I hear you on questioning life. Once again, I am thinking about what will give life purpose outside of having a family. Not got the answer yet, and feel like my life is on hold while I find out whether it will happen or not?!


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## Zeri

I'm sorry to hear how you're feeling, Juniper. :-( Your BD pattern was really good this month, so if it's PMS kicking it I know you must be super-disappointed and frustrated.....probably wondering, 'when will it ever happen? as you said.... If you get AF this month, will you and the OH continue to try naturally or take any other aggressive steps? HUGS!!

Briss - how are you feeling today?

:-( It sounds like we're all going through rough times at the moment. Viccat, do you feel PMS kicking in for you too? Where are you in the tww? I'm having a rough time today too. Feel like I ovulated already this cycle - on CD9!! I'm in disbelief. Took Clomid this cycle again and started getting ewcm on CD6 or so.. didn't pay much notice to it as I had ewcm in the tww last cycle... But on CD9 (Sunday) I had ovulation pains and last night I feel like my breasts are fuller and hurting. I'm like WTF????? How could I possibly ovulate that early and why?? I was so gung-ho about not messing up this cycle like last one and then ovulation just passes me by.... with NO BD at all!!....:cry: We could've BDed on Sunday but DH was sleeping on the couch as usual after dinner. :nope: I'm so angry at him in general for our nonexistent sex life...and so angry and frustrated at the world in general! Feels like every cycle gets messed up ....it's almost like a joke now trying and trying and getting frustrated every single month!! Feeling llike time is running out for me and that this will never happen...but at the same time I know I can't give up...I want this soooo much!!! :cry: It's just so hard sometimes!!! :cry: Sorry for the rant.... feeling really low and sad today too. :cry:

HUGS for all of us.


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## Juniperjules

Viccat, my sisters in London & I'm in Australia so we can't visit easily. It's crap. It makes me feel quite lost actually. There's 7 years between us, but at this age the gap is gone. She's my best friend. So with her so far away life feels quite empty sometimes. I'm very close to my mum, & I tell her everything. But lately bcos shes my only 'go-to' person (with my sister away), I think I'm causing her (my mum) a lot of stress.... 

I ended up having a HUGE fight with OH tonite. We were in the car. I'd been pushing his buttons all day & I guess he snapped finally. He said some awful things to me. We got to the pub where we were going for tea, & he stormed inside & I sat in the car in shock. Then my mum rang & I told her everything he'd said. Then he came back & knew I was telling mum everything. I was being particularly vile too. Like I said in my last post.. My mood has been OUT OF CONTROL today. Like I'm a kettle about to boil over. 

Anyway, I sulked & refused to speak to him over dinner. And told him he was a pr*#k. He apologised a few times & said he didn't mean anything he said, that I should know that he didn't mean it. But that I've been a b*#*h to him all day & he just exploded finally. 

So all in all a totally miserable day. Zeri it sounds like ur sharing the misery. We've got a FS appt in Sept. so I guess we'll make some decisions then. I'd hope we are offered iui for a few goes, & then IVF if needed. On days like today I have to wonder if its all worth it. I hear what ur saying. Living from month to month is torturous. And even though u tell urself to get on with life?? Well, who am I kidding..no one in here that's for sure. 

Sorry ur cycle seems confusing Zeri, that's so frustrating for you. We def all need hugs today. I just hope I'm not feeling the same tomoro as well.....


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## Briss

Hi ladies,

Juniper and Zeri, sorry you are having tough time, I know exactly how you feel. I just hope we will all get our BFPs soon and can finally start living happily 

I am gradually recovering from my FSH depression. am having a very weird cycle, my sex drive is very low which is not typical for me around O, my poor DH did his best to BD on my peak yesterday but his sperm was not quite normal, (TMI) it did not smell like sperm I was not even sure he came. I am hoping we can BD again tonight or tomorrow but does not look likely. I have no EWCM whatsoever this cycle &#8211; should have had grapefruit juice. I also feel like I might have ovulated already. I am so happy DH finally agreed to go assisted conception route privately. will start working in that direction.


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## Zeri

Sounds good, Briss. Did you get that extra BD in?


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## nobump

Juniper - I hear you this is a lonely process, so glad I have this forum to vent/ask questions. I have 2 brothers, one older, with a partner who has 2 teenagers, so he has a family, little brother has 3 kids to two ex wifes, and is with a new partner.... thankfully she is not looking to have kids yet.. my mum is a bit ott so can't really talk to here, she fussys to much. Can you skype your sister? not the same I realise biut maybe seeing and hearing her voice would help?

Viccat - I constantly debate whether I should be happy with what I have and not keep regretting what I don't have, just not happy with what I have at the moment though.... maybe need to find a new hobby or something..

Zeri- sorry you think you missed the egg this cycle. Men just don't get the importance of timming....

Briss-did you manage to get down to it again????

AFM - well going for a pelvic ultra sound today, saddly not a 12 week one..... to investigate my blood in urine out with my cycle.... bloods and urine samples all checked out ok, but as I said to doc my periods have been going funny think they want to do some more investigation..... had 4 days of spotting before bleeding this month, I am never usually late, even took a test, :shrug: why I wasted my time I don't know, although that one BD may have been enough! Periods are getting heavier....

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: to us all


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## Briss

we did BD but it was already a day after O and again the sperm (if there was sperm cos I did not notice any) did not seem right. funny enough as soon as DH realised that ovulation is over his sex drive improved and he initiated another BD this morning :( also he was drinking almost every day. just when i thought our relationship is going well we had an argument and he started drinking again. anyway I am now focusing on finding a good private clinic to start assisted conception process.


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## Briss

viccat said:


> Awww Briss - sorry to hear your bad news :hugs: I am a bit puzzled about the response about eligibility - you are in the UK aren't you? If so, you might find the latest guidelines helpful - it's a bit heavy reading initially, but makes increasing sense to me as I learn about infertility treatments.
> 
> https://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/14078/62769/62769.pdf

Viccat, thanks for the link! I've been reading the guidelines. it does look I have a right to ask for counselling: "People who experience fertility problems should be offered counselling because fertility problems themselves, and the investigation and treatment of fertility problems, can cause psychological stress."

Also, quite surprising statistics: People who are concerned about their fertility should be informed that over 80% of couples in the general population will conceive within 1 year if: the woman is aged under 40 years and they do not use contraception and have regular sexual intercourse. Of those who do not conceive in the first year, about half will do so in the second year (cumulative pregnancy rate over 90%). I mean I cant believe all those LTTTCers on B&B are just 10%, there must be more of us unable to conceive for longer than 2 years 

What is the difference between intrauterine and intracervical insemination? 

I totally disagree with this - Men should be informed that alcohol consumption within the Department of Health's recommendations of 3 to 4 units per day for men is unlikely to affect their semen quality. 3 to 4 units per day!! that totally affected my DH's sperm.

Also really surprised to read  "People who are concerned about their fertility should be informed that there is no consistent evidence of an association between consumption of caffeinated beverages (tea, coffee and colas) and fertility problems"  I am really delighted if I can go back to drinking coffee but I have my doubts it's true particularly because they seem to think you should be drinking coffee if you are going through IVF "People should be informed that maternal caffeine consumption has adverse effects on the success rates of assisted reproduction procedures, including IVF treatment. " why is natural TTC different then? 

this is confusing  "The use of basal body temperature charts to confirm ovulation does not reliably predict ovulation and is not recommended"  how so??

so much for "legs up the wall" which I do religiously - Women should be informed that bed rest of more than 20 minutes' duration following embryo transfer does not improve the outcome of IVF treatment

also quite scary  " Inform women that while the absolute risks of long-term adverse outcomes of IVF treatment, with or without ICSI, are low, a small increased risk of borderline ovarian tumours cannot be excluded." " Both IVF and ICSI involve manipulation of egg and sperm in the laboratory, with impacts on the development of the subsequent embryo. However, while the first successful live birth following IVF was over 30 years ago, there is relatively little long-term research on the subject."  that's why I could not find it in me to agree to IVF for long we just do not know what we are dealing with and no one knows


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## Mapleroo

Hi Ladies! I haven't posted in this thread before but something happened last night that I thought someone might get a chuckle out of re DTD. 

First of all sorry to Juniper for how you are feeling right now, having close family far away is hard and dreams not being realized and seeming so hopeless is harder. 
:hugs: I hope things seem brighter today. 

So last night my oh came home with a few stories about his newly divorced cousins one night stand (gross I know! Us women have the reputation when it comes to divulging intimate details, but I swear men are the biggest culprit!) Anyway apparently this fling lady is also newly divorced and pretty 'free' with her new found singleness and so they had a couple of pretty kinky days in a hotel room. So this apparently gets my hubby thinking that we should try something kinky ourselves! So I ask what he had in mind (completely petrified about the answer because I don't have a kinky bone in my body) And he says '' well you haven't been on top for a while!'' Lol. I guess he doesn't have a kinky streak either! Long story short, I fell asleep while he was googling some ideas. Oh dear.


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## Briss

LOL thanks mapleroo, made me laugh!


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## Zeri

Mapleroo - :-D that's funny! I think we can all relate...hehe. DH accused me of being 'too straight-laced' last night too. 

Juniper - sorry to hear about the fight, and I'm sorry you're missing your sister too. Did you and the DH make up? Sometimes it's hard to get over hurtful remarks...but it really sounds like he reacted mostly out of frustration/anger than really meaning what he said. Did your AF come?

nobump - could the spotting be caused by changing hormones, maybe? I know spotting before AF can be a sign of low progesterone. My periods changed when I hit 35...they got lighter... but they can get heavier too with age. The blood in the urine is strange. Hope you get some answers soon. 

AFM - Last night was stressful. :wacko:Forgive the long rant but I guess I need to get it out. Got my opks two days ago and took one yesterday, CD13 just to see - it was positive! So I guess I didn't O on CD9 before like I thought. I think the Clomid is screwing me around...I had ewcm from CD6-9 this cycle but no ewcm with my positive opk...weird.:shrug: DH had turned me down for BD the night before (not in the mood), but had promised for that night...so I tried to hold him to his word.....It was hard because after dinner he was on the couch as usual ready to fall asleep.:growlmad: I had to nudge him a good few times and remind me of our BD plans... He didn't look interested at all and kept saying "but I'm tired"... :growlmad:etc etc. I got him from the couch into the bedroom at long last and he still looked like he planned to fall asleep...after which I gave him a good piece of my mind..."told him it shouldn't be 'like pulling teeth' to get him to have sex with me, that it makes me feel unattractive and rejected, and that sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have sex with someone who actually wanted to have sex with me' etc etc... I mentioned the low testosterone thing too and we actually talked about it for a bit with him asking questions etc...anyway, after it seemed like no BD was going to happen atl I got really teary and stalked off to the spare bedroom to have a cry. :cry: He followed me and got me to come back...and then tried to initiate BD....we did end up doing it after all. Bless him! After all of that pathetic whining and begging....:blush: I didn't think it would happen but finally it did. It was really stressful but I'm so glad I at least got some....it's not much of a chance because we hadn't Bded for 2 1/2 weeks before that...so stale sperm...:wacko:but I feel better to have a sliver of a chance than none at all. KNow what I mean ladies? So now I can feel a little bit better. I would've felt absolutely horrible if another ovulation had come and passed me by with no BD at all. 

Thinking of ordering a testosterone supplement for DH soon....he seems open to taking it. I'm hoping it'll help in the BD arena. Guess we'll see!


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## Briss

Zeri, well done on getting a well times BD, at least that's a chance. what a relieve. most of the time there is so much drama before DH finally manages to BD, it's so exhausting to having to go through this time after time

am also upset today, got home to discover almost empty bottle of Pimms :( he drank it all by himself... i know it's hot and Pimms/lemonade combination is great for this weather but it's really strong alcohol, not some juice


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## Mischief

Zeri said:


> AFM - Last night was stressful. :wacko:Forgive the long rant but I guess I need to get it out. Got my opks two days ago and took one yesterday, CD13 just to see - it was positive! So I guess I didn't O on CD9 before like I thought. I think the Clomid is screwing me around...I had ewcm from CD6-9 this cycle but no ewcm with my positive opk...weird.:shrug: DH had turned me down for BD the night before (not in the mood), but had promised for that night...so I tried to hold him to his word.....It was hard because after dinner he was on the couch as usual ready to fall asleep.:growlmad: I had to nudge him a good few times and remind me of our BD plans... He didn't look interested at all and kept saying "but I'm tired"... :growlmad:etc etc. I got him from the couch into the bedroom at long last and he still looked like he planned to fall asleep...after which I gave him a good piece of my mind..."told him it shouldn't be 'like pulling teeth' to get him to have sex with me, that it makes me feel unattractive and rejected, and that sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have sex with someone who actually wanted to have sex with me' etc etc... I mentioned the low testosterone thing too and we actually talked about it for a bit with him asking questions etc...anyway, after it seemed like no BD was going to happen atl I got really teary and stalked off to the spare bedroom to have a cry. :cry: He followed me and got me to come back...and then tried to initiate BD....we did end up doing it after all. Bless him! After all of that pathetic whining and begging....:blush: I didn't think it would happen but finally it did. It was really stressful but I'm so glad I at least got some....it's not much of a chance because we hadn't Bded for 2 1/2 weeks before that...so stale sperm...:wacko:but I feel better to have a sliver of a chance than none at all. KNow what I mean ladies? So now I can feel a little bit better. I would've felt absolutely horrible if another ovulation had come and passed me by with no BD at all.
> 
> Thinking of ordering a testosterone supplement for DH soon....he seems open to taking it. I'm hoping it'll help in the BD arena. Guess we'll see!

I'm sorry about your struggle! I've withheld dinner until I got what I wanted before. :)

Clomid does affect your CM. It took me a while to recover in that area after a cycle on 150 mg. Ugh! It seemed very counterproductive!


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## Juniperjules

Mapleroo, that was funny! Gave me a giggle ; ) 

Zeri, I'm 9dpo so too early yet for AF. I'm in this funny but calm state at the moment. As far as symptom spotting- well I think in my mind I find it hard to believe that we'll get pregnant on our own... For no particular reason. None of my tests have been bad really. Except my AMH is ridiculously high at 42.8p/mol. So I guess maybe I have asymptomatic PCOS?? And if so then I suppose we might need some medical intervention??? But that's yet to be figured out. Hopefully FS in August will shed some light on the AMH results. But anyway, I think in my head I just can't imagine actually getting pregnant on my own purely due to being almost 39. So even though I'd love to get a bfp, I can't see it happening. Therefore anything that 'could' be a symptom I'm very sceptical of. I've had a few nites where I'm so hot & sweaty overnite (& it's winter here), I've also been feeling a little run down. But not much more. And I know that when AF arrives ill feel that slightly stupid feeling come over me for even slightly thinking anything could b a symptom. Your night sounded very tumultuous.. Exactly like some nights I've had too. Seriously, trying to have a baby with someone who loves you just shouldn't be so complicated should it?? But at least it ended well. Sometimes I think men need us to give them a damn good scare with a bit of yelling, crying & sulking to make them realise that things are a big deal to us. To them, missing a month isn't a big deal- but to us it's the end of the world at the time. 

Briss, sorry ur DH was drinking. Thankfully one of the positives of my OH is he's not really a drinker, only really a few drinks on the weekend while working (he's a musician). But my dad is, & my sisters partner is- so I am fully aware of the frustrations around it. Both lovely men, but their drinking is so selfish at times, there's barely a single day that they don't drink.


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## msright

I'm in a similar situation , never experience this before a man with a low sex drive been so call trying for a year now which i would say really about four months . Now i have three other children he has none and want on so bad . We really don't know iif he can have any , very curious


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## Briss

it looks like our naturally TTC days are over :( dragged my DH to a private clinic today only to be told that my numbers look appalling and I have no more time to waste, practically menopausal :( why why, i am only 37 and I look much younger and yet my ovaries seems so old, just so depressing. we will probably go natural cycle IVF without the meds and stimulation. will get the scan done next week and then maybe we could start right away. am trying to take this all in, was not prepared to hear this news. I kept telling myself that these are just numbers they do not mean anything but apparently they do mean a great deal.


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## Mapleroo

Briss said:


> it looks like our naturally TTC days are over :( dragged my DH to a private clinic today only to be told that my numbers look appalling and I have no more time to waste, practically menopausal :( why why, i am only 37 and I look much younger and yet my ovaries seems so old, just so depressing. we will probably go natural cycle IVF without the meds and stimulation. will get the scan done next week and then maybe we could start right away. am trying to take this all in, was not prepared to hear this news. I kept telling myself that these are just numbers they do not mean anything but apparently they do mean a great deal.

That is terrible news Briss! So sorry to hear :hugs:


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## Juniperjules

Briss, it totally sucks. I'm like you, I'm 38, 39 in December- but people think I'm in my late 20's. people that I've worked with for 2 years are shocked when I tell them my age.. My sister is 31 & people think we're twins!!! But... As hard as it is to accept, I'm realising that my insides are ageing even if the outside still looks young. And yeh it's great not looking your age, but I def think it does give the feeling that u ARE still young, when in reality our reproductive age is still late 30's.. Like a false sense of security. The ironic thing is that I know I'm even mentally much younger than most of my friends simply bcos they've all had kids to bring up for years... I can absolutely see the difference between us, my best friend says it all the time & she's four years younger than me!! 

I won't lie, I think we all know this is a scary place to be. There's no sugar coating it. BUT, you've still got options, so just run towards them head first & do everything you can. It's not impossible. Stay strong!! 

Ps, if I were you, I'd be up-ing the dose of Ubiquinol now. Looks like ur taking the form that is CoQ10??? Can u get hold of the Ubiquinol form?? It's expensive but I think it's worth the $$$ at this point.. I'd be taking 400-600 per day if I were you. I have no idea if its the cause..but at this stage I have an AMH of 42.8p/mol as I think you know. I'm almost 100% certain I don't have PCOS... Which would he wise explain the AMH number.... But I HAVE been taking the Ubiquinol since march. I'm a teeny bit suspicious/ hopeful that this is why the AMH is high. I could be proven wrong in August when I see the FS.. But I hope not!


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## Briss

ladies, as ever thank you very much for your support. am now fully committed to go with IVF asap and Dh is on board as he was upset as well (somehow yet again it came as a total surprise to him!)

Juniper, re coq10, when I did my research I came to the conclusion that there is no big difference b/w coq10 vs Ubiquinol, the main difference is absorption. Ubiquinol is being absorbed by the body faster and is more potent so you need less of it but from what I read as long as you take coq10 with vitamin E (which helps absorption) there is no difference. I always take my coq10 with vitamin E and I take 400 a day. I did not have any side effects so I can easily take more. I would be very interested to know what you found out on coq10 vs Ubiquinol cos I remember looking into it about a year ago, maybe there is some new info on this stuff? where do you get your Ubiquinol?


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## Juniperjules

Briss, I buy mine online. Have bought it recently from a online only company which is coincidently in melbourne. Then found another place also in Melb but think that may have been a scam bcos it never arrived & they won't contact me!! So have got PayPal dealing with it & will hopefully get my money back soon. 

So, ill have to order some more now. I did find a place in the US which was also a good price so maybe ill try them. I want 200mg caps to avoid taking a handful of them everyday ; ) 

To be honest, I'd have to look back to see if I can find any of the online info I'd read about Ubiquinol vs ubiquinone (CoQ10). I do remember that basically the Ubiquinol is more bio available, meaning ur body doesn't have to break it down to get to the 'good stuff' that ur body can then use. One of the articles I read said something along the lines of in older people Ubiquinol is the better choice bcos as we age it gets harder for our bodies to effectively break down the ubiquinone. I just know that whatever I read, I was convinced that I should definitely be taking the Ubiquinol if I want to try & make the most of the 'cell renewing' properties of it. And the price difference is huge. But I think worth it. I'll see if I can find any of the stuff I read... I might have saved the links on my phone. 

Having said that, it's a personal choice of course- so if u feel that ur just as well with the Ubiquinone then stick with it.


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## nobump

Should be feeling positive, manage to get some action on Sunday after hubby had said he was too tired. Bit early in my cycle, but maybe a start to a more productive month. But just feel like shit today. IBS was playing up during the night and didn,t sleep well. Thankfully was a work from home day so hubby took the brunt of my mood. Everywhere I turn are pics of royal baby can just scream.


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## Juniperjules

Think I'm out again for another month. Got AF like cramping & lower back ache, & just had little bit of spotting I think ...TMI, was hard to tell bcos have bright purple knickers on! : ) 

Am at work and trying to remind myself that I've got an earlier appt with FS now, only 2 weeks away. Am putting all my 'eggs' into her basket & praying that she can change things for the better.


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## Briss

Juniper, do not want to raise your hopes but AF like cramping & lower back ache and spotting can also be a sign of BFP, there is still hope. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## Juniperjules

Thanks for the optimism Briss, but AF has arrived with full force! Haven't told OH yet, I got home from work at 1030pm & he was in a lovely mood & had borrowed DVDs for us to watch.. I just Didn't feel like bursting the happy bubble. 

Which actually I think is a good sign for me- previously I would've felt like I had to tell him bcos then I could almost punish myself & him by kind of saying 'yep well, I'm 38 what do u expect??? we shouldn't have waited so bloody long should we!'.. And I would've enjoyed being negative in a twisted sort of way! How weird is that??!? 

But tonite I felt like I wanted to keep some optimism alive inside & not let AF completely ruin our nite. 

Hmmm maybe at 38 I'm finally growing up ; )


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## Briss

Juniper, very sorry about AF. well done on being so "grown up", every time I tell DH about AF he looks at me so surprised like a child who was just told Santa Claus does not exist


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## smurfy

Juniperjules said:


> Thanks for the optimism Briss, but AF has arrived with full force! Haven't told OH yet, I got home from work at 1030pm & he was in a lovely mood & had borrowed DVDs for us to watch.. I just Didn't feel like bursting the happy bubble.
> 
> Which actually I think is a good sign for me- previously I would've felt like I had to tell him bcos then I could almost punish myself & him by kind of saying 'yep well, I'm 38 what do u expect??? we shouldn't have waited so bloody long should we!'.. And I would've enjoyed being negative in a twisted sort of way! How weird is that??!?
> 
> But tonite I felt like I wanted to keep some optimism alive inside & not let AF completely ruin our nite.
> 
> Hmmm maybe at 38 I'm finally growing up ; )

I was laughing whilst i was read this, its so true you sort of want to punish them too, ie we DTD enough, age etc. The last couple of times I have waited for a few days and just dropped it in subtley. Have a lovely night it is important that it doesnt take over your life. I do feel more relaxed for having this approach more so over the last few months.

We are off to see fertility specialist in 10 days, this time as it is a follow up from over 4 months ago it is likely we will go with IVF, but lets wait and see.


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## Zeri

Sorry to hear about Af Juniper. I actually just checked in to see how your tww was going. I understand what your an about being twistedly negative. When you're angry and bitter it has to come out somewhere. :-/

Is everyone on this forum doing assisted/FS intervention then? I think it's just a matter of time before you girls get your bfps...

My best friend is ttc. She got pregnant by accident the last time, and just announced she had a positive test last week but it didn't stick. I'm sure it's just a matter if time before she's preg go again. :-/

Anyway sorry about not catching up with everyone. Typing on the iPod. Will check back soon later


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## Juniperjules

Thanks Zeri ; ) 

We haven't done anything 'assisted' yet. Have just had the usual tests done by an FS at the women's hospital here. Then referred to an IVF clinic to explore options. 

I'm nervous about it. Very nervous. But I think at this stage I'd sell an organ if I thought I'd end up pregnant!!! I don't know of any problems with my body just yet. My antral follicle count was 8 which after some reading I wasn't happy with... But the original FS & the radiologist told me if I had more than 12 I'd have PCOS.. So 8 is fine (according to them that is). But ill be very interested to see what the private FS will say. My AMH is 42.8p/mol so lord knows wot that means. 

The $$$$ worries me.. But if it means I could be pregnant by the end of the year ill happily do whatever the new FS suggests. She has a fantastic rep & I've been chatting online to girls who are seeing her ATM. I'm over doing this alone & trying to stay calm (bcos if I freak out then my OH will start to have doubts too & I don't want him to lose faith that we CAN have a baby eventually). 

Smurfy, trying to stay chilled in the face of adversity is working for me right now. Last year I had some personal issues & ended up very very anxious, stressed out, had a few panic attacks & ended up needing to see a psychologist. I felt like I was losing my mind. And I will not let that happen again. So I'm pushing bad thoughts out of my mind as quickly as they enter! If ur appt is in 10 days we'll have our FS appts in the same week I'd say!


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## smurfy

Juniperjules said:


> Thanks Zeri ; )
> 
> We haven't done anything 'assisted' yet. Have just had the usual tests done by an FS at the women's hospital here. Then referred to an IVF clinic to explore options.
> 
> I'm nervous about it. Very nervous. But I think at this stage I'd sell an organ if I thought I'd end up pregnant!!! I don't know of any problems with my body just yet. My antral follicle count was 8 which after some reading I wasn't happy with... But the original FS & the radiologist told me if I had more than 12 I'd have PCOS.. So 8 is fine (according to them that is). But ill be very interested to see what the private FS will say. My AMH is 42.8p/mol so lord knows wot that means.
> 
> The $$$$ worries me.. But if it means I could be pregnant by the end of the year ill happily do whatever the new FS suggests. She has a fantastic rep & I've been chatting online to girls who are seeing her ATM. I'm over doing this alone & trying to stay calm (bcos if I freak out then my OH will start to have doubts too & I don't want him to lose faith that we CAN have a baby eventually).
> 
> Smurfy, trying to stay chilled in the face of adversity is working for me right now. Last year I had some personal issues & ended up very very anxious, stressed out, had a few panic attacks & ended up needing to see a psychologist. I felt like I was losing my mind. And I will not let that happen again. So I'm pushing bad thoughts out of my mind as quickly as they enter! If ur appt is in 10 days we'll have our FS appts in the same week I'd say!


Poor you, you are staying positive especially after what you have been through. Good luck, lets touch base again when we come back from FS appts take care


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## viccat

Hi all, sorry I've not been around for a while - needed a little TTC break to be honest.

Juniper - sorry to hear AF got you, but I am super impressed at your ability to stay positive with your OH. If I don't feel like ranting and raving, I go the other way and cannot bear to talk about how crap I am feeling. Neither is nice :nope:

nobump - I am hearing you about the royal baby. Can we have a news embargo?

AFM - AF is due, and I am spotting so don't think it will be much longer. When AF arrives, I get to phone the hospital and book in my HSG test. I'm not looking forward to it, but I want to cross off all the possibilities.

Me and OH have had additional blood/sperm tests taken in the last week or so, and our next FS appointment to discuss options is in another 4 weeks. At the moment, my preference is for natural cycle IVF, but not sure the NHS will offer it. Crazily, they will fund more expensive full IVF, but the recommendations are not to offer the less invasive treatments like IUI and natural cycle IVF.

Not sure I can go through full IVF, and am dealing with the emotions around whether by doing so, I am making a decision which means I will not have a baby.....


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## Briss

Viccat I am going for natural cycle IVF but privately, the NHS was quite clear that they will not fund it. they refused to fund conventional IVF (with meds) cos of my high FSH and said the natural IVF could work for me but they do not have this option under the NHS. I am going to CREATE cos they are doing around 70% of all natural IVfs in the UK


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## viccat

Hi Briss, I will be really interested to hear how you get on at CREATE. I wish there was something like that near us, but we are at the other end of the country :-(


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## Briss

Reporting back on my initial consultation and scan at CREATE. 

my antral follicle count was 9 (7 on the left ovary and 2 on the right). Bad news I now got cysts on both ovaries, the scary part is that I need to do CA 125 blood test to check for ovarian cancer!!! also, it might be tricky to do egg retrieval as they will have to maneuver the needle to try not to puncture the cyst. the good news I have excellent blood flow to my uterus! also excellent lining. based on the scan I was told we might get away with mild stimulation i.e. modified natural cycle IVF and can hope to get 2 eggs. at the end she said that based on what she knows about us she would give us 25% chance of getting a BFP after one cycle and 10-16% chance of taking a baby home, not very optimistic.

I am very concerned about the meds (below), I understand that doses will be different than in conventional IVF and no injections (just tablets), also probably shorter period of time when I need to take them but still from what I read they do not go well with cysts. we need to do blood tests before we can start so not sure if we manage to make it for the next cycle, most likely the cycle after. I want to take some time to think it over as lots of new info to take in. 

Mild stimulation IVF cost: up to &#65505;4,200

IVF: 2550
sedation: 230
hfea fee: 75
icsi 870
blood test: 75-150
menopur 120-150
cetrotide 105-140
ovitrelle 15-30


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## viccat

Thanks so much for sharing that info Briss. I have to be honest, that those odds actually sounded pretty good to me! And great news about your uterus - gives any egg a much better chance of being sticky. :thumbup:

I'm curious - did you find out how do they decide when to do egg retrieval with mild cycle?


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## Briss

with mild stimulation they are basically in control when you ovulate, they give stimulation for more than one follicle to continue growing and at the same time put your ovulation oh hold for a few days and then trigger your ovulation and time egg collection. it's very similar to traditional medicated IVF but instead of getting injections you take tablets and doses are much lower (i hope so)


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## Zeri

Briss - glad to hear you got some good news.  Sorry to hear about the cysts, though. Why do they have to check you for ovarian cancer? Is it because of the cysts?? 

viccat - hope your next FS appt will give you some clarity with which to make your decision. IVF does sound very rigorous - I can understand why you want to go a more natural route. 

AFM - Bah... 8 dpo and feeling absolutely non-pregnant. Took an hpt on a whim at 6 dpo and of course it was negative. Then took an opk yesterday (7dpo) just for the fun of seeing a second line...:blush:.(the test line was there but very light). Going to test again tomorrow and feel pretty sure it's going to be bfn. :-(


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## Briss

Zeri, good luck with testing, faint second line on OPK is a good sign.

The left cyst did not look good so I guess they need to know for sure it's not cancer before stimulating the ovary. I was actually hoping for a completely natural cycle with no med of any kind so I am not sure if I am going to agree to modifies IVF. I am also concerned that the meds even in lower doses can affect my cysts and ovaries


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## nobump

Zeri - Agree, second line on a OPK is good, fingers crossed!!

Briss, hope you all checks out ok with your cysts. There are so many unkowns with IVF.

Viccat, think we all need an escape from this.

AFM, have my ultra sound but they had problems seeing things due to air in my bowel, suffer from IBS.... not been back to docs yet as had another appointment at the hospital on the 8th was going to go back after that. But just got a letter through to go to hospital this Friday for a pelvic x-ray. Letter says to let them know if I think I may be pregnant... Sadly, think it would be a miricle if I was but managed to get some fun in today, CD13, think I will ovulate CD13/14 so might be in with a chance, but Friday would be to soon to test. IBS been playing up this week, X-ray for blood in morning urine, hoping it comes up with an answer. The nurse doing the ultra sound said she couldn't see any large stones, and x-ray would be able to pick anything smaller up.


----------



## viccat

Briss - when do you go for the CA 125 test? I am sure it will be nothing, but realised i didn't really respond to you worrying about it in my last message. My understanding is that cysts are not uncommon (i've had one before that resolved on its own) so will be keeping my fingers crossed.

Let us know when you will do the test and get the results. :hugs:


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## Briss

Viccat, thanks. I am seeing my GP later this week cos I want to get more info on the whole thing and also ask for the test.


----------



## viccat

HSG test later this morning ........ I'm feeling a bit nervous ... 8-[

On the plus side though, we finally exchanged contracts to buy a house, and get the keys next week. Perhaps it will be a good omen and my head will let my body start nesting? :winkwink:


----------



## nobump

Going for a pelvic x-ray this afternoon, quite scared, been googling that and blood in urine, really shouldn't, gives you worst case, hopefully they won't see anything to worry about, but be good to get an answer.

Fertilty Friend also hasn't pick up ovluation this month, so no idea where I am other than C18, temps all over the place but not been sleeping right so temps at wrong times. Atleast I won't have to worry about the x-ray and baby, as chances are so slim...

Viccat - congrats on exchanging! happy nesting! 

Briss - hope you get the info you need.


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## Juniperjules

viccat said:


> HSG test later this morning ........ I'm feeling a bit nervous ... 8-[
> 
> On the plus side though, we finally exchanged contracts to buy a house, and get the keys next week. Perhaps it will be a good omen and my head will let my body start nesting? :winkwink:

Good luck hon! Hope the HSG goes well for you! And congrats on the new place! : )


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## Juniperjules

nobump said:


> Going for a pelvic x-ray this afternoon, quite scared, been googling that and blood in urine, really shouldn't, gives you worst case, hopefully they won't see anything to worry about, but be good to get an answer.
> 
> Fertilty Friend also hasn't pick up ovluation this month, so no idea where I am other than C18, temps all over the place but not been sleeping right so temps at wrong times. Atleast I won't have to worry about the x-ray and baby, as chances are so slim...
> 
> Viccat - congrats on exchanging! happy nesting!
> 
> Briss - hope you get the info you need.

Nobump, good luck with the X-ray- fingers crossed for u that all goes well. Let us know how u go.


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## Juniperjules

So have had a really revolting couple if days with OH's mother. completely insane & driving me to the brink also. i hate the woman. she lulls me into a false sense of security and calmness, then she takes some crazy pills & turns on me. am feeling very very despondent. dealing with her while ttc.... i may as well put my head in the oven now... I was lying in bed last nite thinking about how easy it could be to walk away. From everything. But then I'd be punishing OH for the sins of his nutter mum. I just had to keep reminding myself to keep my eye on the ball... To imagine how absolutely stupendous it will feel if I finally get pregnant & can take a deep breath & not care about anything else. Sorry, am rambling a bit but this woman is insane & has tortured me for years : ( 

So anyway, am counting down the days to see the FS next Friday. Due to Ov on tues/wed. Due to work schedules etc this weekend, there wont be any action until at least Sunday evening. Would like to have gotten started earlier than Sunday, but we did that last month & the month b4 & it made no difference so wot the heck. If we manage Sunday Monday tues then that'll b ok. In my head its kind of just going thru the motions bcos I can't see it happening easily or 'au natural'- so I'm putting all my hopes into this new FS. I'm hoping she has a magic wand she can wave... I desperately need something to change


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## Briss

Nobump, good luck with the X-ray- let us know how it goes. 

Viccat, I hope the HSG goes smoothly today, Mine was very quick and easy. keep us posted. Congratulations on finally exchanging contracts to buy a house, great news!

GP referred me for my bloods via the NHS for free (including the cancer test) which is great, I also did my FSH this morning fingers crossed last cycle was just a bad one and I will get normal FSH levels this cycle. I am seeing a doc on Monday who can hopefully refer me to an ovarian cancer specialist with my insurance so smb who understands this stuff could look at my cyst and tell me whether there is any reason to be worried.


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## Briss

Juniper, very sorry about your OH's mother, hang in there, do not let her threw you off balance, as you said keep your eye on the ball, so tough when these things happen in addition to our TTC misery. I am so hoping your new FS will do her magic :)


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## viccat

nobump - fingers crossed for your xray, and that they get you sorted out. Google can be evil for stuff like that - turns us into our own worst enemies!

Jules - awwwwwww hun, not the crazy mother-in-law again. I take it there's been no movement on selling and/or moving house?

Briss - good to hear that you are getting at least the blood tests free on the NHS. The NHS takes a lot of stick, but I guess we are pretty lucky it is there. Fingers crossed for the doctors visit on Monda.

AFM - The HSG went okay - not too invasive or painful (although I'd taken a couple of paracetamol before I went!). Left tube working fine, but she couldn't confirm that right tube was okay. Looking at the pictures, I think it is probably blocked, which would be another explanation for no pregnancy - once you add in OH's wonky sperm and our lack of DTD...... :wacko:


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## Juniperjules

Briss, thanks for the support. Great news that ur getting ur bloods on the NHS. It's scary & sucks that ur having to jump another hurdle with this cyst- but am sending positive vibes that its totally harmless & u can get it sorted and out of the way. I have boobs full of cysts. The right one is particularly bad. And can become ridiculously painful during PMS. I often wonder wot it will b like if I do get pregnant- double or triple the hormones etc!! Yikes! I take EPO to help with the symptoms but I stopped for a while so lately the cysts are obvious again. 

Viccat, YES the witch in law is on her broomstick again. Up until last Friday she had been great. No dramas, very supportive of us ttc, telling me she loves me etc..Then she turned up tuesday nite & I knew by the look in her eyes she was about to flip out. And she did. I'm literally just hanging on to the hope that I (pls god!!!) can get pregnant ASAP with this new FS. It will be the end of her harassing me. And even if she continues I simply won't care anymore. 

Am glad ur HSG went smoothly- not like mine! It's my right tube that might not be patent too.. Has the FS suggested a laparoscopy or something?? I have a feeling this new FS of mine is gonna want to do one- it seems to be very common for her.


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## viccat

Juniperjules said:


> Am glad ur HSG went smoothly- not like mine! It's my right tube that might not be patent too.. Has the FS suggested a laparoscopy or something?? I have a feeling this new FS of mine is gonna want to do one- it seems to be very common for her.

Oooo I know, I was rather dreading it after knowing what you went through! I must have got lucky - it was just like a smear test, with a small amount of period-type pain. Mine was done by nurses and a radiologist, rather than an FS. The images are checked by a consultant next week, and then passed to our FS. I think it is going to give our FS firepower to suggest moving straight to IVF.


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## nobump

Got results. No kidney stones, but think u might have felt them. Got to go get a camera to investigate. Been a long day, was at a funeral this afternoon. Friend of hubby,s mum. Today is also the aniverdart of his mums passing who sadly passed away 7 years ago today. 
How,s everyone doing?
X


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## Juniperjules

Hey nobump!!! 

Glad to hear no kidney stones.. they are very very painful.. my mum had them. 

so im sitting here having a coffee waiting to finally see my new FS!!! Am so nervous!! Here's goes nothing! Well nothing to loose except my money! ; ) 

Will report back in later...


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## Juniperjules

Hi girls, so I saw my new FS today. She was lovely. She basically explained IUI & IVF (which I already new of course), & basically said that at 38 (39 in dec), that I have a 10% chance of pregnancy with IUI & a 35% chance of pregnancy with IVF. I asked her if she felt I should try IUI & she said in her opinion it would be a waste of my money, that were better off putting the money towards IVF. She said at my age the odds for IVF are good, but if I leave it till 40 the success rates drop dramatically.... Still possible, but much better right now. 

She is sending me to have chromosomal testing done bcos my mum had probs getting pregnant & had 4 miscarriages b/w me & my sister.. So just incase, she wants to check. 

It'll cost a about $5000 out of pocket for the cycle, then about $1300 per transfer after that (hoping & assuming that u end up with embryos u can freeze to use in subsequent cycles). Have to come up with about $10,000 initially but can claim about $4000 back from Medicare. Holy moly... Numbers swirling round in my head... 

She gave a very positive response to my AMH, something like 'fantastic!' & said that since my AFC was 8, that she would give me drugs according to the AFC, even though my AMH is really high. She said she's never had a patient end up with OHSS & that she monitors everything & there's very little risk of it happening. 

She was very positive but not pushy & I actually feel quite confident to trust her judgement. My OH is gonna have a canary at the cost though!!! I KNOW he's gonna say something like 'bugger that we'll just keep trying!!' But my fear is we keep trying and in another 6 mths still nothing... And I'm closer to 40! AND I think when it's a now a reality he might feel IVF is too major to get into just yet.

Am feeling daunted and excited too... Nervous about OH's reaction... But am fairly confident I can convince him. I've been saying over & over that he just has to go with wot I want to do bcos it's my body that has to go thru it all. I've got most of the money for an initial cycle already.. So fingers crossed he doesn't put the brakes on! I'm not gonna see him till Sunday bcos am staying at my folks place till then, so have told him we'll talk face to face. 

Would b lovely to get a bfp this month & not have to think about it all! ; )


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## Jax41

Briss, Juniper, viccat. no bump! I'm so sorry girls I've been AWOL, I've been thinking about you heaps and trying desp to catch up :dohh: but off on hols for a week tomorrow and I need to get packing (hate that bit, esp for this country, who know's what to wear?! :shrug:)

Take care of you special ladies and speak soon,
Love
Jax
xXx


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## Briss

Juniper, it's great that your appointment went well and you feel you can trust your FS, this is so important. are these prices for conventional IVF? Do they include meds?

jax, have a great holiday!

afm, CD10 got my PEAk this morning, DH was not in the mood to BD, fingers crossed we will get there in the evening. although to be honest I do not hold any hope for natural conception. I am just trying to get through my cancer related bloods/MRi etc so I could feel more confident in approaching my (hopefully next) IVF cycle


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## viccat

Hi everyone :flower:

Juniper - Glad to hear that you've found a FS that you can relate to, it makes this all so much easier! I wish the one we saw had been better - he was a bit rubbish to be honest, and I'm hoping we might get someone else next appointment :blush: I am sure OH will be fine about it all. He sounded a reformed man after your recent madness.

Briss - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you get some BDing! :happydance:

AFM - It has been a crazy busy week - we got one BD around my peak, and that was it. I didn't feel like much more after the HSG to be fair - i was a bit bloated and tender! So ....... I'm in the TWW now and trying to chill out and relax with a holiday next week. I'm not holding out much hope for natural conception nowadays.


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## Briss

we BD last night :happydance: could not be happier


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## Juniperjules

Briss said:


> we BD last night :happydance: could not be happier

Yay!! It really is the simple things in life isn't it! ; ) 

So have just talked to OH about my appt on Friday. And he is happy to go ahead with IVF. I'm so relieved. He did cringe & pull a face when I said we have to go to an hour counselling session... But I said he just had to sit & nod & it'll be over soon enough. It's just with a nurse.. & I'm a nurse myself.. So I'm sure he'll survive it. He def saw a positive in (hopefully) being able to freeze some embryos & go back later & try for a second child like our best friends have done with their 2 kids. But that's pie in the sky stuff, just one child would be a blessing at this point. 

Briss, yes that price does include all the meds, blood tests & ultrasounds during the cycle.


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## Briss

Juniper, that's so great that your OH agreed to go along with IVF, makes it so much easier. the prices actually look much better than over here, even natural cycle with reduced use of meds will cost us around £5,000, the conventional IVF will be closer to £10,000!

I am hoping to get to the bottom of this cyst business by the end of next week so we could book IVF for the next cycle.


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## viccat

Hi all - just back from our most recent FS appointment. Luckily we saw someone different this time who was much better at explaining what all the relevant measures told us.

So...... (drum roll) ...... OH's second sperm test came back fine! :happydance: It just goes to show how variable these things are. He had started taking Wellman vitamins, but only for about a couple of weeks before the latest test :shrug:

My AMH reading was fine, so it seems the most likely explanation for us not getting pregnant is a) my (possibly) blocked fallopian tube and b) not DTD enough. :dohh:

So we've decided to give it a few months more trying, and have an appointment booked for January if it still hasn't happened. The FS in the meantime is going to raise my request for mild stimulation IVF at the centre's weekly clinical meeting ad report back to us. I'm not holding out much hope that they will support it on the NHS, but I can only try :flower:


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## Briss

viccat, great news on your AMH and your hubby's SA! hopefully all it takes is just little more BD.

afm, more waiting, had to re-schedule my MRI for 28 August and my doc appointment on 8 Sep. feels like ages from now. but until I get all clear re cyst I wont feel that confident about proceeding with IVF


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## viccat

Hey Briss, thanks for the cheery reply. I will be pestering the heck out of OH for the next few months.

I understand what you mean about getting the all clear. Time does drag waiting for these appointments doesn't it? Only next week for the MRI though...... :hugs:


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## nobump

Viccat - That's great news about your results. Good to hear you had an appointment with someone who shows some compasion.

Briss - hopefully time will fly by for you. 

AFM - taking a break from temping, we are off on our hols tomorrow, all good timing cd9 just now, hopefully we will get some time together, and being away from stresses of family and work will do us good.


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## viccat

Hey nobump - I bet it will do you the power of good. Enjoy your break, and simply spending quality time with your hubby :flower:


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## viccat

Helllloooooooo :wave: How is everyone doing?

AF arrived as expected, so CD2 for me. However I've got lots to do to organise our new home before moving in, so feeling pretty cheery.


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## Juniperjules

Hey Viccat!! Sorry about AF, mine arrived on Tuesday also.. Bummer. You are sounding very cheery which is great! When do u move into ur new place? That'll keep u busy for a while. 

I'm just going thru all the little steps required b4 doing IVF now. OH & I went to our counselling session which was mandatory- it was really more an education & fact giving session- & I already knew so much about it that instead of taking an hour we were done in 30 mins. OH as expected looked very uncomfortable & said some stupid comments but thankfully the psychologist had a good sense of humour & thought he was hilarious...which I swear made him worse bcos then he new he had receptive audience!!! Actually it lightened the mood a bit & afterwards I was laughing with him about the whole situation. Really, although mostly painless, it's very strange & unnatural to have to sit with a stranger & discuss ur biology & fertility & whether or not u give permission for each other to use ur embryos if one of u dies!! We've both had our blood tests done, now have to get his SA done again oh joy.. Has to be 'done' at the actual lab this time which is gonna b a bit of a pain in the butt I'm sure. I've told him, but on the day he's NOT gonna b happy about it, which I actually get.. Again bcos its all a bit weird & unnatural. Then we see the FS 3rd sept. I'm now at a stage where I just wanna get this show on the road- if I have too much time to think/ ponder/ worry/ obsess... Well it's never good. I have no doubt now that IVF is the best step to take bcos I've really had enough of waiting to see wot will happen naturally- & OH & I (as u know) have had too much negativity in the last 18mths to want to keep being disappointed by BFNs. I want to b pregnant in the next 6 months & this will increase the possibility of it happening. Even though its a bit scary bcos it feels so 'big', I'm just going to take a leap of faith. I'm nervous of leaving it till I'm even closer to 40 next year. So like u, I'm feeling pretty positive right now.. Bit jittery ill admit, but still positive & hopeful!


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## viccat

That actually sounds really positive Jules...... you are definitely moving forward now. :hugs: What happens at your next meeting on the 3rd?


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## Juniperjules

Well I guess at the next meeting she'll look at our results at let us know if there are any issues. Last time OH had an SA (last oct) the results were perfect, fingers crossed it still the same this time. She also did chromosome testing on me bcos my mum had trouble getting pregnant initially, & then had 4 m/c between me & my sister. So if all is good I'm hoping maybe sept or oct to start? She apparently likes to put girls on 4mg daily of melatonin for a month b4 doing IVF to improve egg quality, so if she does that I guess it'd be more likely to be October


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## nobump

Just checking in, hope everyone is doing good. Enjoying hols. AF due around the flight home, trying not to think about it. Not tracked temps, so no idea if we got round to it at the correct time, around cd20 now so just going to switch off for rest of hols. Was so disappointed last year when she showed. Hoping time away has done us both good.


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## viccat

Nobump - that sounds really positive hon. Will keep my fingers crossed :)

CD10 for me, and OH is going away for a week tomorrow. Last chance tonight for this month! :winkwink:


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## Zeri

Hey guys, sorry I haven't checked in in a while- been travelling. Ads due for me this wknd. Hope all is well! Hope to catch up soon.


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## Briss

Hi ladies, just wondered how everyone is doing these days.

I am still waiting to see my doc next week to discuss MRI, hopefully he will tell me we can proceed with IVF. Looks like I am ovulating later than usual and my CBFM is not cooperating this cycle, almost missed my LH surge. When it happens it's so hard to plan BD activities. managed to force hubby to BD twice this week but there was no end to his complaining&#8230; so tired of this crap.


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## nobump

Briss this whole process us so draining. Hope you get the go ahead for IVF.

AFM AF is due, prob tomorrow, hubby has a sore leg that has put dampners on the past 3 weeks, he has been in a lot of pain, hopefully on the mend now. But has been crap timing for our hols. Managed some but not holding out any hope for this month.


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## Kardashianw

Oh my I thought I was the only one. My DH is 38 and he has been like this for about 3 years. It drives me nuts. He is diabetic and I know this play a big part on trying to perform. Like your hubby he wants another child I have to stamp my feet to do it and feel so silly begging for it. I just thought it was him oh well my life is going to be so great. The higher sex drive I have the lower his is!!


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## viccat

Hello and welcome Kardashianw. :flower: We all understand what you mean about feeling silly demanding sex ....... it's not what we expected with the menfolk in our life, was it? This is a good place to let off steam and share your news whether it is good or bad.

AFM - I am in the TWW. Got a couple of BD in 3 days before ovulating (at which point OH had to travel abroad for a week :dohh: ) so his swimmers had better have their survival rations packed :haha:

Oh, and I got a letter back from the FS to confirm that they will not offer natural or minimal stimulation IVF, but they are willing to do short protocol / antagonist. I've been reading a bit around it, and think it may be something we come back to if still no luck by the end of 2013....


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## Briss

Viccat I am not surprised they did not offer natural or minimal stimulation IVF, my FS also said they do not offer this at the NHS so unfortunately it's only private. but short protocol seems like a good option. I hope your DH's swimmers are survivors and can last more than 3 days before ovulating. There was this video the sperm race and apparently as soon as sperm riches fallopian tubes they are like in heaven, they have all the nutrients they need to recover their strength and they can live there for quite a while waiting for the egg so fingers crossed :) 

nobump, how is it going? I hope AF stays away. 

Kardashianw, welcome!


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## nobump

Quick check in, CD30, tested negative, looks like AF will get me just in time for return to work. 

Should havs waiter another day before testing, have got cramps comming on.

Sorry for short post but Middlesex of night.


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## viccat

Ladies, can I just thank you for giving me two cheery things to read on a dull Monday at work!



Briss said:


> There was this video the sperm race and apparently as soon as sperm riches fallopian tubes they are like in heaven, they have all the nutrients they need to recover their strength and they can live there for quite a while waiting for the egg so fingers crossed :)

 I have a great mental image of them camped out, having a party :haha:



nobump said:


> Sorry for short post but Middlesex of night.

 LOL - not sure if you've got sex or the county on your mind :winkwink:


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## nobump

Meant to be middle, not sure what happened. Using phone so auto correct does some weird things.

Still no show,but we have travelled a bit this month so might be that. Was going to buy a clear blue test today, but forgot my purse. Knackered will wait n see what tomorrow brings.


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## nobump

AF made an appearance on Saturday... so I am out... but was livid on Friday...

Had an appointment at hospital on Friday for a flexible cystoscopy, to check out my bladder due to blood in urine. Thought would see if they could do a preg test when they were looking at my urine sample when I got there.

Gave sample to a nurse, spoke to another nurse, who took my BP, explained I was late, and she went to see if they could do a test for me, but they had threw the urine away... so asked me to give another sample afterwards. She gave me a container for the sample.

Had flex test, not very pleasant, thankfully all ok, one of those things apparently for a small percentage of people. A nurse walked me out of the room to a disabled toliet to get dressed in!!!! A disabled toliet, felt horrible, why a toilet!!! Anyway got dressed, provided the sample, think it was mostly saline, as they fill your bladder with that during the procedure.

Gave sample to nurse, asked her if it would be ok for the preg test as I thought it would be mostly saline, and they said they were not doing a preg test as not required for the procedure as they can do the procedure why you are pregnant.

Was not a happy bunny, vented at them, said I was not happy at getting changed in a toilet! and said that I had been told that they would do the test! The doc just said not required for the procedure as they could do the procedure on a pregnant lady. I understand all that, but was still holding out hope on Friday that I could have go a positive.... Vented at the staff at the hospital... Got an appointment at my docs on Friday, not sure what is going on with my cycle, don't know if this was a chemical or just a long cycle..

How's everyone?


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## viccat

Awwwwwww nobump, that sounds rotten hun :hugs: What are you hoping to cover at Friday's appointment?


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## nobump

want to find out why my cycle was different, why my periods are getting heavier. Really want someone to give me a reason why nothing works. And then I can stop torturing myself. Feeling very sad and frustrated just now. Life sucks.


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## viccat

Oh hun, I really feel for you. It can be draining dealing with NHS to check these things out too. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you on Friday :hugs:


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## nobump

Thanks, Starting to feel ok now. Think my hormones go mad during AF. Ready for a new cycle. Hopefully get some answers on Friday.


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## Zeri

Sorry you got AF, nobump. I was reading posts last week and was wondering if you were preg go. It's hard to have a long cycle, be hopeful, and then have Af crash the party. :-/ your hospital visit sounds really frustrating!

How is everyone doing? I've been without a computer, so it's hard to check in sometimes. Hope everyone is well! Viccat- where are you in your tww?

I'm here lying on the bed waiting for Dh to come Bd. he's Been on the computer for hours now. Sigh! :-/ Got a positive opk today too.


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## Zeri

4 hrs later and am STILL waiting for DH to BD!!!:cry:


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## viccat

Gah, that sucks Zeri!! :nope:

Did you manage to DTD in the end?


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## nobump

Zeri how frustrating, men just don't get the whole timing thing.
Viccat, yeah what are you in you TWW?


----------



## viccat

Sorry guys, didn't really want to announce here, but have got a positive this month. :flower: Once again though, I had some mild early symptoms, and now no symptoms at all, so am taking each day as it comes and trying not to get over-excited.

In the meantime I have turned 39, have redecorated an entire house in the last two weeks, and we are moving in this weekend! :wacko:


----------



## smurfy

viccat said:


> Sorry guys, didn't really want to announce here, but have got a positive this month. :flower: Once again though, I had some mild early symptoms, and now no symptoms at all, so am taking each day as it comes and trying not to get over-excited.
> 
> In the meantime I have turned 39, have redecorated an entire house in the last two weeks, and we are moving in this weekend! :wacko:

Congratualtions thats great news, you have been doing alot :)

Did you do anything different to get your positive?

Take care


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## Zeri

Congratulations viccat!!! :-D That's awesome news! How did you feel when you saw the pos and how did the OH react? If I might ask, was this a natural cycle for you? 
Sending sticky vibes!


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## viccat

Thanks folks :D 



smurfy said:


> Did you do anything different to get your positive?

Well OH has been taking Wellman conception vitamins for a few weeks now, and his last SA was much better than his first. Also this cycle we DTD earlier than normal at CD8 and CD10. Plus I had "forced" OH to have a BJ at CD6 to clear out the swimmers :blush: OH has got better about DTD since we started attending a fertility clinic. It aint romantic, but he has been making more of an effort.

Perhaps I ovulate earlier than my CBFM thinks I do? Or perhaps it is best to have sperm waiting, instead of racing to catch egg as it goes by?



Zeri said:


> How did you feel when you saw the pos and how did the OH react? If I might ask, was this a natural cycle for you?
> Sending sticky vibes!

This is going to sound bizarre, but I just felt quietly happy. I think my chemical a few months ago made me realise that the BFP is not the "happily ever after" point! OH just said "yay" and then we carried on decorating. He isn't fond of counting chickens before they hatch either.

Yep, it was a natural cycle. Just pre-natal vitamins for both of us.


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## Briss

nobump, Sorry about AF

Zeri, how frustrating! did you get to BD in the end? 

Viccat, congratulations!! fingers crossed for s sticky bean. 

afm, AF got me today, frustrated as usual but finally decided to proceed with natural modified IVf this cycle, called the clinic and waiting for their response


----------



## Zeri

Viccat- wow, I guess those new things you and the OH did really made a difference! Hope you have a smooth and sticky first tri!

Briss - sorry about AF, but feeling hopeful for you for the Ivf cycle! By the way, did you get the ovarian cyst issue sorted out?

Afm- Dh finally came to bed around 3 am Wed night. He wasn't in the mood but tried to rally his little soldier anyway, but it just wasn't happening so he gave up. :-( it was really frustrating for me especially after waiting up 4 hours for some action! And especially knowing it was the night of the pos opk. Anyway we did end up Bding the day after, O day I guess, but not until 4 pm. I'm worried it might've been too late for the swimmers as I think I O'd in the early morning. :-( bah! I used Clomid and preseed this cycle, but it might all have been for nought.


----------



## Briss

Zeri, your egg lives for about 24 hours after being released so if your DH's swimmers are fast they can still make it right in time. Some sperm just takes a couple of hours to reach fallopian tubes. I think your timing might even be just perfect. Good luck! 

I did MRI scan and it showed no cyst on the left! it disappeared. the cancer doc said it was probably a mistake what they thought was some solid mass in the cyst was probably some shadow or something so it was just an ordinary functional cyst that went away on its own. Huge relieve! they made me so worried. cos one of my cancer markers came positive but the doc said on its own blood test does not mean anything. he said we should do another scan in 6 months cos I still have my other small cyst on the right side but it's completely benign. I have my first IVF scan scheduled on wednesday. finger crossed :) 

We've been discussing our situation with DH all day today. we are going through some crisis and I was not sure how things will turn out but I think we are getting there. agreed on 3 IVF attempts (hubby will pay), he will try to cut out beer but not completely, he also asked that can rent a flat for himself so he could stay away from all the TTC drama for a while. I was OK with that but I doubt he is really going to do that. 

I am excited about IVF but scared at the same time. I will just have to take it one day at a time.


----------



## nobump

Viccat so pleased for you, good to hear that someone is seeing results. Hope this one sticks, and you have a smooth 9 months.

Zeri, I share you frustrations! Hubby had a cold this weekend so no luck here either, so frustrating...

Briss, good luck with IVF, be good to hear all the details.

AFM - doc just listened to me moaning on Friday she agreed treatment at hospital was not good. Unfortunately any investigations they can do re heavy/painful periods would interfere with TTC! She did wright me a prescription for some tablets to help with the bleeding and pain. Asked if going private for IVF would be an option.... tried talking to hubby today about things again, not sure what we'll do... as doc says we are unexplained why do we need to go down IVF route, he just sees the expense, think I will phone clinic near us to inquire about initial test/costs...


----------



## viccat

Briss said:


> I did MRI scan and it showed no cyst on the left! it disappeared. the cancer doc said it was probably a mistake what they thought was some solid mass in the cyst was probably some shadow or something so it was just an ordinary functional cyst that went away on its own. Huge relieve! they made me so worried. cos one of my cancer markers came positive but the doc said on its own blood test does not mean anything. he said we should do another scan in 6 months cos I still have my other small cyst on the right side but it's completely benign. I have my first IVF scan scheduled on wednesday. finger crossed :)

So pleased to hear about your results Briss. I've had a cyst spontaneously resolve too, and it was such a relief after the docs were being so serious about it! I hope that Wednesday's scan goes well too :flower:

Keeping my fingers crossed for all of you O:)


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## battyatty

Hi there, can I use this thread for a really good vent?

I'm a mother of 3, youngest nearly 13 from my ex of 20 years, got rid of him 4 years ago and met my new DF a few months later. Now almost 4 years later, with talk of moving country for his work he pulls the baby out of the bag! He doesn't have any kids and he's nearly 40. So back in July in the kitchen he tells me he definitely wants kids, and can I have them?

When we met I told him I didn't want more kids, but now I get this!

After a really long morning talking it over, it appears he wants kids and he doesn't know what to do because he knows its unlikely I can, I'm 47 this week! So then we talked nearly every day for a few weeks, he trawled the net for scientific papers on the chances of a a woman of 47 conceiving, then one morning after days of this he starts up on FSH and other blood tests. I'm sitting there listening to all this jargon yet again with my IUD still in place, doing its job. (hadn't removed it as was waiting for him to make up his mind) Well I had enough of this talk, walked out the door and drove to my GP! I talked my GP of the last 19 years and asked his opinion, he said go for it! Took my bloods and arranged for my coil to be removed in an hours time. I sent my DF a text that I was at the doctors waiting for my coil to be removed, his reply was Great, well done, I'm so excited!

So here I am 2 cycles later. First cycle my DF decided its better to wait till the second cycle to try. OK I say even though I know my clock isn't just ticking, its damn well chiming. This cycle starts and trying to get him to BD has been awful! (Up to this point we have been BDing about 10 times a week since we first met!)The first time I lay there for an hour and half in bed next to him, waiting for him to make up his mind. The second time was actually after a huge row. I told him that if we don't BD then he may as well move on, as I cant give him the baby he wants if we don't BD. And I know that if we don't produce an heir then he will walk a few years down the line looking for a woman who can!
The next day he asked did I feel pregnant? WTF? I told him the sperm probably hadn't even reached the egg yet, never mind implanted. he listened walked away and now if I bring up anything to do with trying he walks out the room. I'm so confused, upset and on top of that and probably because of all this stress I have had awful cramps and feeling nauseous since my O, and I cant tell him.

How do you all cope with this?

Does he want to do this, has he changed his mind? I don't want to bring it up anymore, for fear of rejection.......

But It's on my mind now 24/7 now. Every cycle could be my last. I'm so close to MP it isn't funny. I feel like he's wasting time here, from fear. Fear of being a parent, fear of total no going back commitment.

I feel like chucking in the towel and walking away. I had everything set up for me going back to college in the new year to do my BA. It's something I have been wanting to do since my teens, but couldn't, due to work then kids. 

I know none of you wonderful ladies have an answer to my problems, I just needed to vent!

PS I cant talk to anyone, no one knows were sort of trying!


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## Briss

battyatty, totally confusing I agree, hang in there he will come around. :hugs: you are probably right he is not sure himself, he does not want to miss his chance to have a child but does not seem to be quite ready yet :dohh: but then again if not now it may never happen because of your age, so he is probably trying to make up his mind, very tricky! 

on a positive side at least you had 10 BD a week before!! I get half of this in a month if I am lucky :)


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## battyatty

Briss said:


> on a positive side at least you had 10 BD a week before!! I get half of this in a month if I am lucky :)

Why oh why Briss can't men make up there bl**dy minds!:growlmad:

And another thing, why does society think its always men gagging for sex and women holding back? Everyone of my female friends are not 'getting enough' I dont even know how I managed to get 3 kids, I was lucky in my last relationship to BD 3 times a year! I thought great when my DF turned up, he was as ready for as much fun as me, but its gone down to 2/3 times a months for the last 3 months!

Im so so so confused, he's still loving and romantic, lots of cuddles and kisses all day, but last 4 nights he has slept in spare room. Telling me he is tired and needs a good nights sleep. I'm hanging in there, home life is really taking off. Engagment and moving country together, but babies and BDing is arghhhhhh!:wacko: 

MEN!!!!!!


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## Zeri

Battyatty,I feel your frustration! We'll all had to deal with unwilling OH's too- you've come to the right place! Sounds like your OH is feeling some performance pressure, maybe? Sounds like he wants a baby but just wants it to happen without the pressure. My Dh has been like that too, recently - said he didn't like all the pressure I was putting on him to Bd, and just wants it to happen naturally. Men really don't seem to get it.

Briss, thanks for the encouragement. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. It's wonderful that your cyst resolved itself - awesome! Your Ivf steps sound good. Are you still going to the natural modified Ivf? What is that, really?

Nobump - hope you get some answers soon about moving forward with Ivf...

Viccat- how're you feeling, Chica?


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## battyatty

Right well here goes, my last vent, then its off this site for good.
Well things have come to ahead this morning, after he spent yet another night in the spare room, he has come to his decision.
He wants kids, infact he wants 3 kids, but not right now, and not with me! His argument, he doesn't believe we would make good parents together. Due to all the problems we have had in our relationship. 
He is adamant he still wants to be in a relationship with me....? But wants kids in the future, he isn't ready to have kids yet, maybe in 5 years. (he will be 45 by then)
So basically he is asking me to move country with him for his job. Thats move my entire home and 3 kids and then wait till he wants kids. By then I will be 52ish! Then what? Be a good girl, sit at home and let him have babies with another woman??? I don't think so...

So girls this is the end of TTC and I cant stay here, as I so wanted to have a baby and now its not going to happen. Thank you and all the other ladies who have been so wonderful, and I wish you all my love and hope you all get your sticky beans, you all deserve them so much! xxxx


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## Briss

battyatty, I am so sorry to her that! this is just cruel!! I am happy that at least you already have children so you are not alone

Zeri, modified IVF is like conventional IVf with much less meds, I think i will be taking lower doses of stimulation meds just for a few days before O, trigger and then progesterone. basically we are not aiming to get lots of eggs, just a couple of the best naturally selected ones. success rates are lower but the risks of overstimulation and damage to ovaries is also lower


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## FifiBarks

...


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## Briss

FifiBarks, congratulation on your BFP, Happy and healthy 9 month! thank you for your story, very interesting!

afm, I started injections yesterday! I cannot believe we are actually going through with IVF&#8230;


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## terripeachy

Fifi-
That was a crazy story!! I mean, crazy interesting. So, now OH knows what you did, but I'm wondering if he's so excited/happy to DTD because something is wrong with his sperm and he knows it, but doesn't want to share it with you. What do you think about that? 

Battatty-I feel for you, babe. I guess the positive side of things is that you won't have to continue fighting for DFs love and affection if he wants to go elsewhere to get it. I would sever ties and stay where you are. He's just putting you off until he's ready, and that is very selfish. He wants you to stay where you are, and he wants to go. Sometimes, you just have to let him go. I'm so sorry for the situation you're in. There is someone out there for you. Go find him! RIGHT NOW! *hugs*


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## nobump

Phoned private clinic to see what first steps would be for getting started, how soon can get appointment etc.... Ready to chat to hubby over weekend.
Came home and we have a letter about making a appointment to start NHS cycle.
Spooky. Going to phone on Monday to see when we can get an appointment. Need to make more off an effort to shift a bit of weight. Holiday weight not budged to much nice food.
Nervous.
How things going with everyone one else?


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## viccat

Briss said:


> afm, I started injections yesterday! I cannot believe we are actually going through with IVF

I am really pleased for you hon ..... fingers crossed for a successful cycle, and that it isn't too hard! :flower:


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## viccat

Zeri said:


> Viccat- how're you feeling, Chica?

I am okay, thanks. Taking each day one day at a time.


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## Zeri

Batty arty- not sure if you're still around, but agree that your OH is ruduculous to expect you to wait around, till he's ready to have kids with someone else!

Fifi - thanks for sharing! Wow!

Briss- wow, you've started! How are you feeling so far?

Viccat- glad you're doing ok.

Nobump - did you get an appointment?

Wow! Everybody's moving ahead, seems like! AFM-13 dpo today and cramping. Got bfns on 9 and 11 dpo... so just waiting things out. :-/


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## Zeri

Well Af came. Crushed! More so this time than before. Really thought we had a decent chance this month. :-(

Viccat-can you tell me about Wellmans? how long was your OH taking the well an them and did he take just one tablet per day?


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## viccat

Zeri said:


> Viccat-can you tell me about Wellmans? how long was your OH taking the well an them and did he take just one tablet per day?

Hi Zeri, sorry hear that AF has turned up again :nope:

OH was taking the Wellman vits for 6 weeks before second SA test, and about 3 months before conception. He didn't even manage to take the one tablet per day - I reckon he remembered about 2/3 of the time.

Everything I have read suggests that 6 weeks shouldn't be enough time to make a difference to sperm, but at his second SA morphology was 9% (versus 2% originally) and motility of >50% (from original <40%). Count remained unchanged, and was a high 120m at both tests.

So..... I'm not sure whether the Wellman vits had an effect or not. He said he didn't feel any different :shrug: He didn't do anything else differently between those two SA tests though, and I hadn't thought they could vary that much!


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## Briss

Ladies, we have gone ahead with natural/modified IVF, I did very mild stimulation but still only produced one egg but absolutely perfect mature egg. DH did his best to sabotage the process, he produced very poor sperm sample but luckily the embryologist managed to find a cute looking sperm that fertilised my eggie :) They transfered the embryo today on Day 2 as they think it has better chances to survive in my uterus than in the lab. I am hoping and praying my little embryo will continue growing and implant into my lining. Cant believe I finally have my embryo inside of me :) I love it so much! 

Zeri, I am very sorry about AF. My DH has been on wellman for over a year but I add other supps i do not think just one wellman a day is enough. although as i said before healthy lifestyle and proper diet is the key. My DH's sperm was terrible when he was fasting. also once he resumed drinking his SA is getting worse every week


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## viccat

Wow Briss, what fantastic news!!!! Really pleased that they managed to get an embryo. My understanding is that the whole point of natural IVF is to get better quality but fewer eggs, so one perfect eggy is brilliant. :happydance: It seems great to know how it is going at each step of the process. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.


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## Zeri

Wow Briss!! Yayyy! I can't believe you're so far along in the process already...I guess I thought you were at the first point of stimulating the eggs. Yayy for a good Eggie and cute sperm!  grow Eggie, grow!!! How exciting!!

Viccat (and Briss), thx for the vitamin info. Viccat, it's really amazing that his sperm quality improved so much, especially the morph. Wow! Those little guys are really sensitive. I'm thinking of getting some vitamins for Dh- still looking into it.


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## nobump

Briss that is fab news, hope the egg sticks!

Zeri, sorry AF turned up, it's a killer when you think things may be working out in a month

Viccatt, that great OH has see such great results, my OH tried Wellman for a few days, but gave him wind not good... so he gave up..

AFM - Got an appointment with hospital on the 25th October, for half an hour with the doctor, then we will see the nurses, OH will have to give another sample, and they will take bloods from both of us and do all the tests... not sure when IVF will start. We have 2 rounds on the NHS, I am in the process of trying go shift some weight.... BMI is a little high, not over the threshold, but I am overweight so I think losing a bit will help things.


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## Zeri

How's it going, Briss?


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## Briss

Hi Zeri, not very good to be honest, I've been cramping non stop and it really gets to me, had a bit of spotting and my doc increased my progesterone, keep getting bfns, I am still trying to keep positive and hopeful


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## Zeri

Oh dear- I understand the worry! :-/ so you're 8 dpo then? Could the bleeding/spotting be implantation related? It's a bit early for any other type of bleeding, isn't it? 
Did the Doc say when you might expect a bfp? 8 dpo still seems pretty early to me. When I was preg both times I implanted on 8 dpo. Thinking good thoughts for you!!!


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## Briss

I am 7 DPO or in IVF world 5dp2dt. I had spotting on 4 DPO/2dp2dt, it was a tiny amount only when I wiped, still I was concerned cos i never spot in tww and it was just too early for implantation. spotting stopped since I increased progesterone but cramping continues. They are going to do my test next Wednesday, basically 14 DPO. I am testing daily, I figured it will be less of a shock for me if I get there gradually. I guess implantation should be happening around now


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## Zeri

Ok, well hope the cramping eases up! Hang in there!


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## Zeri

Temps not looking bad, Briss. How're you doing?


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## Briss

cramping has been non stop and I've been spotting since 10 DPO :( test daily but all bfns so far :( losing hope


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## Clizard

Briss said:


> cramping has been non stop and I've been spotting since 10 DPO :( test daily but all bfns so far :( losing hope

Briss, hope all is well. I want to say that I agree with the others that the cramping and spotting is not a reason to give up - could be your body gearing up big time. Get plenty of rest x


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## Zeri

Briss said:


> cramping has been non stop and I've been spotting since 10 DPO :( test daily but all bfns so far :( losing hope

Hmmm... :-/ I'm sorry to hear about the bfns. Are you considered 10 or 12 dpo today? If 10, thats still fairly early. did the doc say anything about the cramping/spotting and what could be causing it?


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## Briss

Thank you ladies. 13 DPO, my temp is up, no cramping and no spotting this morning I was getting my hopes up but&#8230; bfn. I guess it's quite clear now but I will continue hoping for a miracle up until I get my blood test results tomorrow.


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## Jax41

Briss, I'm hoping for a miracle for you love, you so deserve it :hugs::hugs:


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## nobump

Wishing you luck Briss. Agree temps looks good.


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## Zeri

Yeah, nice temp rise today! And it's good that the spotting & cramping's eased up too.


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## Zeri

Briss, is that a BFP on your chart??? What's going on?


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## Briss

ladies, just to update you. i did get a BFP last night but BFN this morning, it then went to produce a very faint line by lunchtime but my beta came back as 8.3, too low to call it positive. They were very direct and told me that unfortunately they see it as negative. I am to repeat the test on Friday and they expect I get a completely negative result. They did not want to give me false hope and said with these low levels this is just not good news. the only positive fact is that there was an attempt at implantation but unfortunately not successful.


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## viccat

Oh Briss, I am so so sorry to hear your news :cry: It hurts because that BFP gets your hopes up so much, doesn't it.... 

My thoughts are with you, and hoping you can find some quiet head space over the next few days. :hugs:


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## Briss

viccat, it was devastating. my first BFP in 3.5 years, I was so happy I cried when I saw it. it's just too cruel.


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## Zeri

Ttc is really such an emotional rollercoaster. It's just so unbearably hard sometimes. :-( did you test again today though? I notice your temp is up?


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## Briss

Zeri, I did not bother testing this morning. yesterday it was still faint positive (it's not getting darker) but blood test is just more reliable, I did one this morning and they will tell me the results later today. I do not know why the temp is up, probably cos of progesterone, I was told to continue until negative is confirmed. I am still spotting but AF wont start until I stop progesterone.


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## Zeri

Hi Briss,
I see Af has started... :-( hope you're holding up ok. Hugs. 

I've gotta say that this ttc thing is pretty hard to deal with. Was thinking today about that overall. I think today is O day for me, and sadly no Bds at all anytime this week. Pathetic! I had great ewcm all week too. :-( Dh was interested in Bding on Thirs morn but I was late for work so we didn't. Fri morn I decided to go into work late and get some Bd in the morning... We tried but Dh couldn't finish. He later said he had masturbated on the Thurs morn. Sigh... Saturday he was busy all day and today he was too tired to Bd the two times I asked. So another month down the drain. Good times. I don't know what to feel anymore at this point but I've started looking intoa fertility centre in my region that does Iuis. I'm starting to think we should stop wasting time and just try assisted. Every month something just seems to go wrong with the Bding and I'm tired of it. Will continue to look into it for the time being. 

How is everyone else doing?


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## Briss

Zeri, I am so sorry about no BD, so upsetting! My Dh actually was happy to go alone with IVF because he did not have to BD :( 

My second beta dropped to 1.7 so officially negative, I stopped progestrone and got AF the next day. I am visiting my mum at the moment. Wanted to get away from my DH so he did not see me upset, he takes it very hard and I was afraid this would make him want to increase his beer intake.... :( 

I am actually feeling strangely positive, because at least finaly we got very close to getting pregnant. I realised that ICSI is probabaly the way to go for us, low sperm count is not easily treated with natural methods so I am afraid I feel I've been wasting time on vitamins and TCM, all we need is no alcohol and modern technology :( I feel we have a chance now


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## nobump

Briss I am really sorry to hear your sad news.

Viccat - how are you getting along with things?

Zeri - sorry AF has appeared and lack of BD... never any fun.

AFM - had meeting with HR, to say that I am going to be going through IVF so will need to take time off at short notice for some appointments once I know the treatment schedule. Not easy to take/book holidays at short notice, so felt I had to raise it with them.... also only had 1 sick day in the last year so to suddenly take lots in a short space of time...would have raised lots of questions.. HR were nice about it, said I need to speak to my manager, and let him know I have to have some appointments, for a health issue, and that HR are aware. If I decide to let my boss know what the treatment is, I can ask him to not say anything to anyone, and he has to do this, but I just don't want people to know.... to many people wondering how things are progressing etc... Will decide what to do once we have been to the first meeting on Friday... need to talk things through with other half. Got to try and clear his system out tonight ahead of Friday he has to provide a sample for a SA on Friday, and things didn't work out yesterday, hope we can summon the energy tonight! He's not looking forward to it... bless him, at least he is willing.


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## Jax41

Hi Girls :flower:

Just trying to catch up with all that's going on in your worlds :hugs:

Briss - so sorry for the disappointment but you hit the nail on the head, you are getting nearer and nearer to actually getting preg and that makes me really happy for you :happydance: all is not lost you are so nearly there :hugs:

Zeri - I've had a month like that too, just one BD just after finished my period, so not holding out any hope. Feel esp p'd off as I took my clomid this cycle, AND told DH I was, AND he's away next month :growlmad: Am beginning to think like you and Briss, take the BDing out the way with assisted and just get preg - bingo!

Viccat - how's things with you and your DH? So hope you're okay :hugs:

Nobump - lots of luv and luck as you and DH start the IVF journey, bless him for doing his testing so willingly, helps hugely. Hope you'll be posting good news soon!

AFM, wrestling with following the IVF path like all of you...something, somewhere is telling me that naturally it's not going to happen and I have to give this one try, although I think it will be DE for me. Am checking things out with my private healthcare atm....:flower:


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## Zeri

Briss- yes, totally! It's great that you're feeling more positive. Just think- just the other day there was a little embryo dividing inside of you! Hopefully the next time it will be a sticky one!

Nobump- it was Briss who had gotten Af... Its no due for me for a week and a half. With no Bd I guess she'll arrive on schedule though. That's good your managers were supportive about your appts. Did Your Oh do the sample after all?

Jax- ugh! Missing Bd on Clomid cycles is the worst. It sucks to have taken meds and get no action at all. Maybe Ivf would also do the trick for you. In emailing the Iui clinic to get info I mentioned I was concerned about my age (37) and she agreed I needed to be active about conceiving before time ticks away. She was wonderfully supportive and I feel more hopeful now that I've made contact.

Viccat, how're you feeling?


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## nobump

Zeri sorry for getting confused with events and names. 
On route to appointbent now, nervous. Management don,t know only HR, read the forms through a bit more. AMF test could take up to 4 weeks to come back so will thinking I,ll try to wait until after my end of year review before saying anything about needing time off.


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## nobump

Appointment was good. Treatment scheduled for February, but scan showed a small cyst on one ovary and a pollup un the lining of my womb so need a hsg, so just need to get that scheduled. OH SA was odd everything bar the quantity looked good. Only 3 mill, test in March this year had it up at 37 mill, don't understand. Depending on numbers, may need to look at ICSI which scares me more.

It was me that turned hubby down on Saturday, was a bit tender from the scan. 

How is everyone else?


----------



## nobump

Appointment was good. Treatment scheduled for February, but scan showed a small cyst on one ovary and a pollup un the lining of my womb so need a hsg, so just need to get that scheduled. OH SA was odd everything bar the quantity looked good. Only 3 mill, test in March this year had it up at 37 mill, don't understand. Depending on numbers, may need to look at ICSI which scares me more.

It was me that turned hubby down on Saturday, was a bit tender from the scan. 

How is everyone else?


----------



## Briss

nobump, 37 mil is fantastic! maybe the previous SA was just a one off? I do not think they need to do ICSI with such a high count. what was his morphology?

afm, have been arguing with DH a lot, he continues with his beer and it just feels hopeless. my cycle is not quite normal after the chemical. the temp is way too high. Am approaching O but we have not BD since EC! he wanted to BD on Saturday when we had a guy doing repairs in our flat! me feeling uneasy about that turned him on but I just could not do it, realistically the guy could walk in at any moment. now he is saying that I rejected him so he is not feeling like BD anymore.


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## viccat

Jax - I would definitely say it is worth starting to at least explore the IVF path, even if you don't eventually follow it. I found that my OH responded much better once we started our appointments to find out about IVF - I think it made him realise that I was serious. Unlike some other OH's he actually preferred the idea of DTD than having to provide samples at hospital. Or perhaps I should say DTD was the lesser of the two evils :winkwink:

Nobump - glad to hear HR were good about it, and things are progressing. 

Briss - sorry to hear about your bloody minded DH. Mine has said similar stuff at times - if I mentioned lack of BD he would be sure to point out the (rare!) times I had turned him down. Gah, men! :growlmad: Am I right in thinking you have a review appointment in November, at which you decide next steps?

Zeri - I've had those months and it sucks :hugs:

AFM - thanks to everyone who has asked after me. I really don't want to upset anyone by keep coming on and talking about what's happening with me though, that's why I've dropped off the thread a bit. I used to be on a thread where everyone got pregnant, and the conversation turned from TTC to pregnancy chat, and I stopped wanting to read it :nope: ...... so I'm trying not to do the same here. Suffice to say, all is going fine so far, and I am happy to chat more to folks if you want to PM me :flower:

[I will say though pregnancy has killed my sex drive, and at this point in the process, having an OH who is happy without sex is a blessing :haha:]


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## Zeri

Viccat- glad to hear all is well!

Nobump - 37 to 3 million is a big drop. What would be the reason do that? Are you going to repeat the SA?

Briss- ugh! Bad DH!!! Does he think that he's off the hook so he can drink as much as he wants? His sperm still needs to be healthy. When are you going to try Ivf again? Would you or your Dh ever consider donor sperm?

Afm- 13 dpo and Af seems to be on the way. No surprise as there was no Bd. looking fwd to moving fwd in a fresh cycle!


----------



## Briss

Hi ladies, 

i managed to get 2 BD sessions out of DH this cycle but the one closer to O had to be with me on top cos he was just not into it at all so not sure how much use it was. Anyway with his SA I am not holding my breathe for natural TTC. I booked an app with a gyno next week to discuss things that are not going right after the IVF and then the following week I am going for my follow up app with the IVF clinic to discuss our next step. 

This time last year I was so hopeful that 2013 will be the year I have my child and the year before that i still remember being optimistic. This year I do not even know I am not thinking that far ahead anymore and trying to take it day by day


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## Zeri

Are u doing Ivf for your current cycle, Briss?

How's everyone else doing? It's been a while...


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## Briss

Zeri, yes we started our second IVf and this time the clinic suggested stims but unfortunately with my high FSH my ovaries are not responding well to stims so far only two out of 10 follicles have grown, yesterday they increased my dose twice and am due for another scan tomorrow. DH was trying to stay away from the beer but cant say he was very successful, it's also been a nightmare trying to force him to take any supps, I had to resort to crushing vits and mixing it in his food&#8230; at the moment just hanging in there hoping for the best

how's everyone doing?


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## Zeri

Best wishes for your scan, Briss! Let us know how it goes. Hope you show a tietter response this time. I'm sorry your DH is still drinking so much.. Hopefully he still has a good enough sperm count. They don't need a particular sperm count for ivf, right?

Hope everyone else is doing well! AFM - really confused with this cycle. I got my opks late (CD18 - same day that I usually O) but they've been negative so far. I'm not sure if I O'd yet or am still to O. Still testing, so will see how it goes.


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## nobump

Briss, good luck with you IVF cycle.

Zeri, is your cycle making any more sense?

AFM, feeling a lot more positive and relaxed, finally have some progress, have started down the private option the Hysteroscopy, seen someone at Bupa, for initial consult, booked in for Tuesday. Consultant said this could be the reason why I had seen some spotting in my urine earlier, hopefully once the polyp is removed, my cycles will be better, bleeding and pain are draining. Who knows the polyp may have been preventing implantation, who knows, but this gives us the best shot for IVF in January. Spending my time looking in on assisted conception, trying to see what will happen once it all starts.

How is everyone else?


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## Briss

nobump, that sounds very positive. a friend of mine got pregnant a couple of months after she had her polyp removed. good luck.

Zeri, how's your cycle going?

My IVF is not going that well, stims did not work for me and I only developed 3 follicles. Today at EC it turned out that one egg ovulated early so we missed it, one more egg was immature and could not be used for ICSI. we only have one egg and hoping and praying it will fertilise tomorrow.


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## nobump

Bride sending you good luck wishes.


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## Briss

my only egg did not fertilise. they told me it was not good quality. I was very suspicious when they did not give me meds for the entire 2 weeks just for a few days. I guess they already knew that the chances of fertilisation were slim but did not tell me. strange after all this talk on how great my blood flow was and that I am to expect good quality eggs. The embryologist mentioned that the meds might have affected egg quality because my egg was of good quality on the previous natural cycle. maybe the one they missed was the only good one this cycle. My husband blames the clinic, 6K down the drain + me having to go through the stims and the result is worse than in a natural cycle. It's the end of the road for this cycle. this is going to be the hardest TWW ever with no hope whatsoever. I am in pieces and cant even think clearly where we go from here. totally devastating...

after 2 failed cycles, DH does not want any more IVF until next summer. he said it's his turn to take the drags (he struggled to see me going through stims) so finally agreed to see a urologist. I just cannot stop crying


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## Zeri

Oh Briss!!! How disappointing!!! I can't imagine what you're going through right now. I always feel horrible when my Clomid cycles are messed up....but going through stims and spending $6000 + only to have no chances whatsoever must be a million times worse!:-( :-( :-( I'm so sorry to hear! Agree that it's probably going to be a rough two week wait. The one thing that makes the tww tolerable is at least having hope of getting pregnant.... :-( I hope you find the strength to get through it. Major HUGS! On a somewhat positive side...it's good that your DH agrees to see a urologist. I wonder if he would also agree to taking something like Clomid? I hear that can be prescribed for men to boost sperm count. What do you think? Do you think he would be willing to try some other intervention before next summer? That's a horribly long time to wait! Of course there's always natural - and it's good that your eggs are of better quality natural than stimmed - maybe the issue is really your DH...and if he gets treated sooner rather than later you'll have a better chance on your natural cycles?

HUGS!!


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## Zeri

nobump - that's good that you at least know what's going on now, and some hope that your cycles and bleeding/other symptoms will improve in thething near future.  It sounds like you'll be on a good footing for IVF once that's sorted out. Good to hear you've been feeling more relaxed about things too.


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## Briss

Zeri, thank you! DH said it's his turn to take drugs now so here is hoping. I booked him to see a very good urologist next week. maybe he can find what's wrong and can fix his issue so we could get pregnant naturally, I doubt it but must have hope.

I am still in shock, constantly crying and in disbelief. At the moment I do not even know what to think and what to hope for. years of very intensive TTC and 2 failed IVF which cost us about 11K. I think I am going to take a break for a while I never thought I'd say it but I am reaching my limits on how much misfortune I can take before I break and want to give up and end it all. I am sure it will pass and I will carry on fighting but not the next few weeks. I might stay away from B&B for a bit because it's getting hard for me and I am literally exhausted and my TTC efforts are not bringing me any closer to a baby.


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## Zeri

AFM - still not absolutely sure what's going on, but I *think* I'm in the tww, since my breasts have been somewhat sore for the last week or so, and I haven't had a positive opk since I started testing on CD18. On CD25 today.


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## Zeri

Briss said:


> Zeri, thank you! DH said it's his turn to take drugs now so here is hoping. I booked him to see a very good urologist next week. maybe he can find what's wrong and can fix his issue so we could get pregnant naturally, I doubt it but must have hope.
> 
> I am still in shock, constantly crying and in disbelief. At the moment I do not even know what to think and what to hope for. years of very intensive TTC and 2 failed IVF which cost us about 11K. I think I am going to take a break for a while I never thought I'd say it but I am reaching my limits on how much misfortune I can take before I break and want to give up and end it all. I am sure it will pass and I will carry on fighting but not the next few weeks. I might stay away from B&B for a bit because it's getting hard for me and I am literally exhausted and my TTC efforts are not bringing me any closer to a baby.

Totally understand you needing a break. I don't think most non-TTC people understand how all-consuming and emotionally/physically stressful ttc can be- especially long term ttc. It's like you live your life in two week increments...waiting, trying,hoping, being disappointed...recycle. It's hard...especially when you put so much $ and time into it (like IVF) and still get the same result. :-( . It's good you got a quick appointment for your DH...you're moving quickly on things, and hopefully that initiative will bear some fruit soon - at least hopefully the uro would be able to recommend something for your DH. Keep hope alive. Hope you get soon over the next few weeks, and also a chance to pamper yourself! You deserve it!


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## nobump

Arghhh... finally feeling ok after Hystoscopy and D&C... but DH is tired.... CD13 today... Was hoping of attempting to catch the egg before attempting IVF next month...


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## nobump

How's everyone doing? My gran was asking when I,m going to start a family, she,s 91, sure there must have been infertility in her day. Ma mum started asking questions again, but can't bring myself to tell her about IVF next month, her fretting would drive me round the bend. On the count down to AF then will fund out schedule for treatment.


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## Jax41

Briss said:


> Zeri, thank you! DH said it's his turn to take drugs now so here is hoping. I booked him to see a very good urologist next week. maybe he can find what's wrong and can fix his issue so we could get pregnant naturally, I doubt it but must have hope.
> 
> I am still in shock, constantly crying and in disbelief. At the moment I do not even know what to think and what to hope for. years of very intensive TTC and 2 failed IVF which cost us about 11K. I think I am going to take a break for a while I never thought I'd say it but I am reaching my limits on how much misfortune I can take before I break and want to give up and end it all. I am sure it will pass and I will carry on fighting but not the next few weeks. I might stay away from B&B for a bit because it's getting hard for me and I am literally exhausted and my TTC efforts are not bringing me any closer to a baby.

Briss :hugs: I'm crying with you, that is just the saddest situation, I'm so sorry love that the IVF hasn't worked, but on the other hand waytogo at your DH for stepping up and seeing the Urologist. I know you're devastated but keep the hope alive, if you don't have hope you have nothing.

Extra special big hugs all for you :kiss::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## nobump

briss how are things? Keep seeing your posts in other threads. while I am looking for answers.
Max how,s thing's with you? How are everyone else?
AFM had day one assessment for IVF yesterday, it was CD4 for me, was still bleeding heavy, was very painful, they did a mock transfer as well. Still in a bit of discomfort today. Got my AMH results as well, less than 4, not good. Awaiting follow up results from hysteroscopy and d&c once I get those I,be to share with them, got to go back for meds afterward's. Never thought it would be so tough.


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## Briss

sorry ladies for the silence, I try not to post much, I am not feeling very good about life at the moment and all my thoughts are very dark and negative so just do not want to spread my negativity around  

*Jax*, thank you! How are you? 

*nobump*, looks like things are gradually moving alone. it's great that they did mock ET cos ET is super important, it has to be completely uneventful and smooth so the IVf is a success. Why did they do d&c? did you have polyps? It's so hard when people ask about children. I can easily just fall apart if smb asks cos I have nothing to say just cry about it

*Zeri*, how is it going?

unfortunately the urologist was not terribly optimistic after he examined all Dh's results over the last 3 years. he said we need to make sure there is no underlying reason for this like genetic issue so we did some bloods for this. if we are lucky and his bloods are OK the urologist suggested to just throw various treatments at DH in the hope that something works for him. he said it's not practical to carry on testing looking for answers cos there is a limited number of treatments available so we may as well just go straight to the treatments and save money on very expensive testing. If the results come back as bad news that's basically the end of the road cos genetic issues cannot be fixed. I am trying not to think about it and hope for the best. He said stimulated IVF is the best way for us but unfortunately my ovaries are not responding to stims so we are stuck so at the moment we are just waiting for our genetic testing to come through next week. DH promised to cut down on beer but I've heard it all before


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## nobump

This is a horrible journey.
Briss it frustrating not knowing what the answer is.
When I had my initial IVF appointment they did a scan and saw the polup, but as getting treatment in Edinburgh but live in Glasgow so ended up going private, otherwise would have had a 3 month wait, thankfully covered by my work. Got referred because of heavy period as fertility treatment not covered.


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## Zeri

Hi girls,
Just popping in to say a quick hi. Been feeling a bit broken and discouraged most days....which is why I haven't been saying much. :-(

Briss - I've been following your story in various threads too. Hope you get good results back from the tests next week. 

nobump =sorry it's been such a tough road... but I agree it sounds like things are moving along slowly. What does AMH mean?

Jax - hope all is well as it can be! are you still actively ttc?

AFM - 13 dpo today and spotting. Feeling heartbroken as usual. With each AF it gets worse and worse. I'm here thinking of what the plan for next cycle will be...


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## nobump

AMH is a hormone which they measure which indicates your ovarian reserve and also to judge your response to the IVF drugs. Just been out and bought some royal jelly capsules and some coenzymet q10 tablets, hope they help. 

Briss and zeri, sorry your having a hard time.


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## Jax41

Hi lovelies, huge hugs all round :hugs::hugs::hugs:

I think we've all been feeling the same :dohh: negative and nothing much to post about, I know I have...hence my recent silence. 

Although DH is trying his absolute best to make it happen for me I just have a hunch that.....there I go again! He keeps telling me negativity will get me no-where, I call it reality. He has agreed to IVF, we just need to find £s, although I'm not sure he actually understands the whole programme and what it involves. But he has said can we try full on for at least another 6 months and then see. At least at last I have him fully onboard. Who know's maybe mother nature will send a little miracle my way :shrug::cloud9:

Please know whatever and however you are feeling Briss, Zeri, Nobump, you are NOT alone, I'm here right alongside xxx


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## Briss

*n**obump*, how's your IVF? any news?

*Zeri*, did you finally get lucky? do I see a pregnancy tracker in your signature?? 

*Jax*, how is it going? 

*afm*, our genetic testing came back fine, huge relief! so the urologist gave my DH some hormonal treatment for the next 3-6 months, it may or may not work, he also said that even if it works and DH's count improves by 30-40% it does not mean we will get pregnant. He thinks we should go for stim IVF. I got a referral to a different clinic and am waiting to be invited for our initial appointment. I am still hoping to get NHS funding for this cycle but it all depends on my FSH. the earliest we can start the next cycle is April, seems like ages. In the meantime my cycle has been recovering well after the second IVF so I think my body is ready to go through that again. I am still rather depressed about our situation and a sense of hopelessness is prevailing.


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## nobump

Hi Briss,

Taking shot tonight, ER on Friday! had a tough time with IVF, low AMH, didn't respond well to down reg... was on highest stims..only have 2 follies showing... preparing for this not to work... ldon;t think I can do it again... they will transfer on Monday if we have an viable egg.

:hugs::hugs: 
Hope the meds help you DH. IVF is such a hard process. 
:hugs::hugs:


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## Briss

nobump, I am sorry you are having hard time with IVF. My second stim cycle was very traumatic cos I did not respond to stims cos of high FSH. I had also two follicles growing but they managed to squeeze one more out of my ovaries, unfortunately one follicle ovulated the next day after the trigger so we lost the only good egg I had that cycle. 

what dose of stims were you on? I wonder why they decided to down reg you with low AMH?

anyway, IVF can be very unpredictable. i know it does not look promising at the moment but you may as well end up pregnant with healthy twins in a couple of weeks time, you just never know. Let's hope for the best. try and stay positive after ET. and get plenty of rest after EC. let me know how it goes, I am hoping they will manage to get your eggs and get a few embryos. 

If we had good sperm I'd go for natural IVF again (I had far better result with one egg from my dominant ovary than with 3 stimulated eggs and it was so much easier on my body) but our urologist said only stims can offer us any chances cos we need a choice of embryos. I do not know how many IVFs it is going to take but all our savings will have to go into that, I just do not see any other way.


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## Zeri

Hi girls :flower:,
It's good to hear the updates. I haven't posted in a while either, but always check for this thread when I'm here. I think in my last post (Jan 7th) AF was on her way and I was feeling very discouraged...but I'm happy to update that I conceived my next cycle, and am now 6 weeks pregnant.  I'm just really thankful and praying that things continue to go well. 

Briss - been checking for updates from you in various threads. Glad to hear there was no genetic issue with DH!! I can imagine how huge of a relief that must be. I hope he responds well to the hormone treatments! Will you continue trying naturally then until April? Just a month/two to go...I know it must seem like an eternity...maybe his numbers can come up enough for you to have success naturally? If not, maybe your next IVF will be the one that brings you that take home baby!

nobump - sorry IVF's been rough on you. But all the best for your egg retrieval tomorrow! I'm sure there's at least one good eggie in there. Thinking good thoughts for you. :flower:

Jax - it's good that your DH is fully onboard now..:thumbup: Sounds like he's trying to be supportive too. When do you think you'll be able to get the $ to try IVF? Hopefully trying full on over the next few months will help you conceive naturally. Are you or the DH on any supplements?


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## Briss

Zeri, most wonderful news!!! congratulations! H&H 9 months. did you do anything different that cycle?

we continue TTC naturally while we are waiting for DH's next SA and also for our next IVF but I do not really hold much hope for natural TTC, something is not working for us. I also have doubts the treatment is working cos DH's testosterone is supposed to be increasing but his sex drive is still limited so it might be that the hormones are not having any effect.


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## nobump

Seri congratulations, do tell did you do anything different? 

Briss, Im in a more positive mood now, the clinic DR you to get a thin lining, but the had to increase my dose of that and was on it for an extra week, for stims I was on 300 UI and then last dose was 150 UI. We are staying in a hotel near clinic as it,s 100 mile round trip, ET schedule for Monday all being well, heading to family near for the weekend, booked of work til Wednesday. Trying to remove as much stress from the next few days as possible.

This is our one and only chance, this cycle has been tough. Don't think can do this again.


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## Zeri

Briss - did the Dr. give you a time frame for the hormones to take effect? How long has he been taking them?

nobump - glad you're feeling more positive! I hope this chance is successful. Is your ER today or Monday?

On the cycle I conceived I had started taking Black Cohosh, to help with estrogen (I think was low before), and DH had been taking Black Maca over the last two months, and we Bd'd on O day (in the morning), and abstained for about 4-5 days before that, I think? I also prayed a lot that cycle for my bfp - and I think God answered my prayers! But that's the combination of things that happened that cycle. :flower:


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## nobump

EC was today, got 2, progress report tomorrow, transfer will be Monday.

Tired.


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## nobump

No transfer, only one egg was mature. But fertilised abnormally, not sure what we'll do next. IVF is so hard.


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## Briss

oh no! I am devastated for you, so sorry this is happening. I was in your shoes a few months ago when they told me one egg was immature and the other did not fertilise I was completely destroyed, it took a while for me to get myself back to normal. I think what helped a little is the fact that we had normal fertilisation with our first IVF so i know this is not the end, next time we can get a totally different result because every cycle is different. we will try to do IMSI next time cos it helps to select a better quality sperm 

Did the embryologist say whether they think it was due to poor egg quality or sperm factor? 

all I can say is do not take it personally, clinics make mistakes, it's possible that the quality of your egg was compromised by stims or ICSI was not done correctly. maybe you were just unlucky and they picked unhealthy sperm. would you consider doing natural IVF? it's much easier on your body and at least you have a confidence that the egg they collect is the best naturally selected egg in every given cycle. If we did not have sperm factor I'd definitely go for another natural IVF because I just do not respond to stims that well. but with sperm factor we are stuck


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## Briss

Zeri, it's interesting that you abstained for 4-5 days before BD on the day of your O. I think this is a good strategy but our urologist said we should BD every day to improve DH's sperm quality. very confusing. 

DH's had been taking meds for 7 weeks now, we are waiting for his blood test result to see if there is any increase in testosterone and other hormones. the usual length of treatment is 3 months but it can be stretched up to 6 months if necessary after that if there is no improvement there is no point in continuing.


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## Zeri

nobump- I'm really sorry to hear the transfer didn't happen. How upsetting! :-( :nope: After having to go through so much. How are you and your OH doing?

Briss- I hope the blood tests show that some improvement is happening somewhere! It must be hard dealing with so much uncertainty with something you want so much. :-(


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## Lavender1975

lexus15 said:


> My oh doesn't want to dtd hardly ever. I have to literally beg/ask every month & usually get told he's 'tired' or 'tomorrow' which never comes for me :blush: He knows HE has control over this area & that I'll ask,

Not sure if this has been suggested - haven't yet read the thread through - but: we hardly ever BD in the evening and I never *ask* him. I just wake up earlier than him in the morning and try to "seduce" him (you know what I mean;-) while he is still asleep - when he wakes up, it's too late for him, he can't refuse me any longer 

Until I got this idea, in the evening we used to talk about politics, work and what not, while I was slowly climbing up the wall, fantasizing about grabbing him by the throat and shaking him while yelling "I want a BABY!!" Now I think he is actually grateful and he's less nervous and really nice to me


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## nobump

Thanks, starting to feel better, got signed off my work for the week. To emotional to deal with work, people, stress, might say the wrong thing.

Going for a counseling session hopefully it will help. Will see doctor in a few weeks to discuss things. 

Will try natural way for the next few months, will look into what has helped you Zeri. But think the issue is now with me and my eggs, will look to start royal jelly. Don't want to give up on trying, just not sure if IVF is the answer.


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## Zeri

Just wondering how everyone is doing...


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## Briss

nobump, have you had your follow up discussion? did they suggest anything? maybe try a different protocol? I was taking fresh royal jelly for a month or so but did not notice any positive changes. I was taking it in supplement form but decided that it is better to try and get it in a natural form if possible. I have my initial IVf app with a new clinic in May so in the meantime I will be trying to improve my egg quality. eat healthily, lots of protein, greens and do everything that brings blood to my reproductive organs (more blood to the follicles &#8211; better egg quality)


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## nobump

Just back from holiday, we had a week away in the Sun, think it has done us both good, but AF has just made an appearance!

That's great you have an appointment in May, that will be here in no time, it is good that you are looking into things to improve egg quality, I have been looking at DHEA, not sure if I will go down that route... might make an appointment with a GP to talk it through.

My clinic will only repeat the same protocol as last time, was on maximum dose of stims, and the extra week of down reg was normal appartently, lots of people have to do an extra week, the always do the long protocol when people have low AMH.... 

Had a counselling session, not sure if it did us any good, she started talking abut using donar eggs, don't think it was her job to bring this up, have a another appointment next week, think we might cancel it...

Got to give them a call with my July period, to start again.. scary not sure I want to go through all the side affects again... and to get the same result.. I know there are no guarantees...


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## jjbubbles28

So we were basically in the same boat. We have stressful jobs, a three hour commute, and are both older and starting to try and have a baby now. My husband 44 and I 35 struggled, fought, cried, you name it. We generally have sex 1-2 times a week and now I'm asking for double headers??? Back to back days!!! I decided to be honest. We cried, we hugged, and I asked if this is what was really wanted, then we both need to ACT like we want it. Since that night I have not had to ask, just gingerly remind him that its that day again. Its not amorous, but it is what needs to be done and not one "headache" since :)


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## Briss

*nobump*, I am sorry about AF it's always distressing. great that you managed to get away to have some time off this disappointing TTC business. 

re egg quality, I am changing my diet to reduce coffee/sugar and increase protein intake. it's going hard cos I am not used to eating so much and do not like putting weight on but I do believe a bit more protein will help. I was thinking about DHEA but decided to leave until after 40 as a last resort thing because it's a hormone and can easily mess things up. I am back on acu, am trying a different clinic that seem to specialise on helping ladies with high FSH. I am not overly optimistic cos I've already done over a year of acu + herbs with little positive effect but who knows maybe these new guys can make it happen. Just struggling waiting for IVF cos it may take months after the initial appointment before we actually start the cycle and approaching 38 does not help. I am panicking I am wasting time. but I try to remind myself that DH is undergoing this treatment that does seem to have some positive effect and I just have to hope it improves his sperm count and increases our chances when we finally get to do the IVF. 

re protocol, I actually thought it was the other way around, if your stats are great you may qualify for long protocol but if you have high FSH/low AMH then short protocol seem to demonstrate better results. Is there any chance you can change your clinic? 

re counselling session, I am appalled they brought up donor eggs at your counselling session!! How dare they! this is just plainly playing on your vulnerability to force you into donor eggs because the clinic wants to keep their stats up and obviously using younger eggs will give them better success rates but that's completely ignoring your views and your happiness. if the counselling session was connected to your IVF clinic I' would not go there again, they are not helping you but themselves! truly appalling.

*jjbubbles*, it's really great that an honest conversation worked so well on your DH. We did talk about it with DH and theoretically he was up for it but practically he just did not have the drive to make it happen. since he was put on hormonal treatment things have changed dramatically, I no longer have to "beg" and at times he is even initiating it all by himself which is very new to us. The urologist checked his testosterone levels are apparently he reacted too well to the treatment and his levels are even higher than teenagers' so the dose was reduced cos ultimately the treatment is to improve sperm count, increased sex drive is just a positive "side effect" to the treatment. so my point is that sometimes it's really all down to hormones rather than men being nasty and withdrawing on purpose or something


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## nobump

jjbubbles, welcome, it is frustrating, but no I have come to appreciate that he is not rjecting me or us it is because he is tired due to work, or as Briss said, hormones or illness..

Briss, it's a NHS clinic, I don't have any option to switch clinics.... AF is a killer, they have noticed a fribiod during last IVF cycle, think this may be why I am heavy... thought when I got a pollyp removed in December things would improve... I am going to see what the counselor says on Thursday, may not go back afterwards... as for age I turn 39 this month... think it is next cycle of IVF then we will stop trying... DH turns 50 as well this year.. time is not on our side. Hope your new routine works out Briss,


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## Zeri

Briss - sounds like you're being very proactive with your diet changes/acupuncture etc to improve egg quality - that's awesome! Although I'm sure it must be a big sacrifice to make such big changes too. HOpe your next appt. in May comes around soon. Good to hear that the DH is initiating sex now, too! Looks like the hormone treatments really did him some good. Between that and all the positive changes you've made it sounds like you really have a good chance for your next IVF.

nobump - glad to hear you had a great holiday! Agreed that the lady was out of place to suggest donor eggs! :growlmad: Obviously thinking about their clinic's success, but not about you. It would've been up to you to bring that up. Hope your next IVF is successful, though!

jjbubbles - yup, we've all been there! good to hear your DH is now on board.


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## nobump

How's everyone? 

I am due to start cycle 2

Don't honestly expect a different result from first cycle. But you gotta try.


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## Briss

Well done for trying. I am still waiting to hear if the clinic let us do stim ivf and if we can get the funding.


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## nobump

Had baseline scan, one follicle RHS and 3 on LHS, but LHS didn't respond to meds last time.... same protocol as last time... 

Good luck with funding...


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## Briss

Best of luck! Every cycle is different so you can get a better response this cycle on the same protocol. Keep us posted.


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## Hope3

Hello

I've always avoided this thread because I guessed that it would open up a pandora's box of issues I didn't want to admit to until recently. I've been reading some of the old posts and the struggles have been almost identical with mine.

We only BD 2-3 times per month around ovulation then nothing either side. We've been together four years, married for one. Lots of sex in the beginning but not much now. It started going downhill last year. To begin with the problem was with me. Busy new job and no work life balance = low libido on my part. When I was in the mood he wasn't, usual excuses too tired etc etc.

Lots of sex on honeymoon last summer but the pattern hasn't really changed since. 

Nothing seems to have worked. Talking hasn't worked. Arguing hasn't worked. His recent epiphany that we should be having more sex has actually resulted in more sex on a consistent basis. 

Last week we celebrated our first anniversary. We went out for a lovely meal. I got dressed up, hopeful of BD when we got back. Nothing. We went away for the weekend but he said he felt uncomfortable BD'ing there because the B&B owner was too close by (it was her home). No BD all weekend. Naturally I was disappointed. On Tuesday he rejected my advances (too tired, need a shower blah blah) promising that we would BD on Wednesday when he got home from work. He forgot and went out for drinks with his friend instead. I was so annoyed I slept on the sofa. I was annoyed that he forgot and that he was drinking (sore subject). Last night he was out with the same friend again to see the latest Planet of the Apes. Today AF has arrived and I'm gutted.

I can only take so much rejection. We can't afford IVF privately so the natural way is our only option and it's never going to happen at this rate. The thought of a childless future is bad enough without me feeling old and unattractive. I hate the fact that my chances of being a mother seem to revolve totally around him. I also resent the fact that sex when we have it isn't great for me.

Sorry for the rant.


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## Wish4another1

:hugs: Hope - I am sorry you are going through all this...

my DH has to take fertilaid to even want to have a sex it seems... it is so hurtful... and then when he "forgets" to take it - it is another knife in my gut... 

I don't have any solutions. I have tried all the things you have tried... and I am still getting it 4 times a month - 2 times at fertile time (if I am lucky)...

My husband won't do IVF or IUI or anything... so we can only try naturally too...

I am always here to vent to if you need it... just know you are NOT alone...


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## Briss

*Hope*, I am very sorry you found yourself in this situation. Our story is not going to be very helpful I think but I am here if you need any support. basically it turns out that Dh's low libido thing is not something he does on purpose, it's not psychological but it's all down to pure and simple low testosterone levels. nothing we can do about it. it became very clear when our urologist put DH on tamaxofen, it helps his body produce more testosterone &#8211; it's like I got a new DH who is suddenly interested in sex. we've been together for over 10 years and this is the first time I do not need to beg him to BD. He's been on tamaxofen for 8 months now and at some point he would need to stop cos this is not a long term treatment but we just cant, we both enjoy it so much and I am afraid to think what would become of us if he stops tamaxofen. at least it helped me realise that DH was not really mean to me in denying sex he just really was not interested cos of hormones. he could not help it. it's very sad.


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## nobump

Hello hope, sorry for your loss and your struggle with lack of bdng in a month gets us all down, our issue is mainly down to us working different hours and weekends not always turning out how we want them to... I think the strain of trying to get the timing correct each cycle put pressure on all of us. I have learned not to become so frustrated, annoyed and angry about it all. This has improved things, I think I needed to learn to be more patient... We are going through our second IVF cycle just now, and it is tough on me, I am a very emotional person and the down regging took its tool on me and my DH is has been very loving and caring, I couldn't be without him. Sadly I don't think that IVF is the magical answer, it works for some and not others and is really tough. I am hoping that this cycle will be successful, but think I will have 3 eggs at most collected, hoping one makes it to transfer, but then that is only the beginning of the TWW, and then the wait the 6 week scan etc.. We ended up with not egg to transfer last cycle, and it was heart breaking, took me months to get over, we will be stopping after this cycle if it doesn't work, at least trying naturally I know there is not chance, it is so much crueler with IVF.

Feel free to post here to vent your frustrations, maybe things are also taking there toll on your husband as well. Men are not always good at sharing there feelings. I usually get mine a bit tipsy and then he opens up more.

Sending you some :hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## Hope3

Thanks ladies for your support. 

Had a talk with hubby today. He blames stressing over problems at work for his low libido. It was only when the issue was resolved this week that it dawned on him that it was affecting his mood. 

He says he's still attracted to me & dismissed my concerns as irrational. I pointed out the lack of BD is fact. Charting makes it all too plain. 

I'm seriously thinking of giving up TTC. The emotional strain & dark thoughts are too much.


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## 30mummyof1

Although i am not 35 yet,, 6 months away i feel more at home here i think than with ladies ttc over 10 years younger more often than not! 
I really struggle with this one too, last night i asked my dh to come to bed early :wink: :wink: and he said basically no chance, too stressed, too tired etc.. i have to admit i was ready to throw ttc in. I thought its always me bloody initiating it, i feel like i have to beg for sex sometimes - not that it works mind! and i just don't know how many months i can take of this. 
I get so stressed trying to plan when to do it, not too early and we might peak before ovulation and then miss it and not too late and miss it all together. I was we could be one of those couples that just naturally does it 2/3 times a week and then i could just leave it up to nature..but that will never happen with dh :(

Not sure i am looking for advice more just to talk to ladies that are in a similar situation.


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## Hope3

30mummyof1 said:


> Although i am not 35 yet,, 6 months away i feel more at home here i think than with ladies ttc over 10 years younger more often than not!
> I really struggle with this one too, last night i asked my dh to come to bed early :wink: :wink: and he said basically no chance, too stressed, too tired etc.. i have to admit i was ready to throw ttc in. I thought its always me bloody initiating it, i feel like i have to beg for sex sometimes - not that it works mind! and i just don't know how many months i can take of this.
> I get so stressed trying to plan when to do it, not too early and we might peak before ovulation and then miss it and not too late and miss it all together. I was we could be one of those couples that just naturally does it 2/3 times a week and then i could just leave it up to nature..but that will never happen with dh :(
> 
> Not sure i am looking for advice more just to talk to ladies that are in a similar situation.


Sorry you're going through this. What's up with our DH's? Men seem to spend half their lives chasing sex then when they get access to as much as they want they go off it? :dohh:

I would say try and talk to your DH which I know may not be easy as men often get defensive (well mine does anyway). The penny is slowly dropping with mine and he seems to be getting his mojo back.


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## 30mummyof1

Thanks hope, i've tried to explain there is only a limited window, i probably need to say that i find it hard with being let down all the time and that adds to the stress of it. I know, men hey! Wasn't like this when we first met..think that's why we conceived ds1 pretty easy because it was early days, plus i was only 28 although weren't trying. ds2 was a bit more of a struggle but we got there however now i suppose his job is a lot more stressful which doesn't help and having 2 small children.

He let me down again yesterday - in the morning said "no my belly feels funny" - not hurts but funny! said we will in the evening but by then he was too tired! however he woke me up at 5.45am this morning and we managed one! I have had backache almost constantly for 2 weeks yet i get on with it yet he has a funny belly! :growlmad:

and breath, that was good to get off my chest :) :haha:


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