# breast pumping?



## ryder

For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly. 

I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.


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## Carley

I hated pumping, it takes a lot of work, more then breast-feeding! I'd highly recommend breast-feeding over pumping. By the time you pump (every 2-3hrs) and keep bottles clean, sterilized full time pumping is horrible. I did it for 6 months...


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## ryder

well if it doesn't work out I will just do formula.


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## Margerle

Breastfeeding is easier and more comfortable than pumping for me too. 

:hug:


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## Sarah88

Why are u so against breast-feeding?


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## Carley

I was curious but didn't want to be rude and ask.


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## Sarah88

Lol, great i'm rude.


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## Carley

Nope, just blunt...I like :)


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## nikky0907

Well,I don't know about Ryder but I also definitely won't be breastfeeding because it is for me uncomfortable,I don't like the thought of it or the concept of it....it's just not something I want to do.
I will bottle feed.

So,there....it's probably not my place to answer this since you asked her the question and probably don't care about my answer...but there.:shrug:


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## leedsforever

for me I will breast feed initially but I cant imagine how comfortable Im going to feel about it!! I also know Im not going to do it in public!! However if I cannot successful pump I will continue to use breast but probably not for long!!

I can just see Id end up not being able to go anywhere!


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## Blah11

idk i still think its selfish when people don't even try to breastfeed.


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## nikky0907

Blah11 said:


> idk i still think its selfish when people don't even try to breastfeed.

:shock:
People have their reasons,every and each one.Reasons that they shouldn't be judged for!

I said it once before,we ALL here have nothing but our children's best interest at heart and if not breastfeeding is something that endangers our kids we sure as hell wouldn't be considering it.

Don't you think it's a _tad_ insulting that you are calling people on this board selfish without even knowing their circumstances?
Some of them actually have nipple phobias,it's an actual phobia.

A personal choice,there's no right or wrong answer to that question.

Plus,we are now far far from the subject Ryder posted.


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## Blah11

nikky0907 said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> idk i still think its selfish when people don't even try to breastfeed.
> 
> :shock:
> People have their reasons,every and each one.Reasons that they shouldn't be judged for!
> 
> I said it once before,we ALL here have nothing but our children's best interest at heart and if not breastfeeding is something that endangers our kids we sure as hell wouldn't be considering it.
> 
> Don't you think it's a _tad_ insulting that you are calling people on this board selfish without even knowing their circumstances?
> Some of them actually have nipple phobias,it's an actual phobia.
> 
> A personal choice,there's no right or wrong answer to that question.Click to expand...

Well everyone knows the benefits for the baby, and the mum too. Health professionals reccommend breastfeeding for a reason. I think it's very selfish not to even try it just b/c you THINK you MIGHT feel uncomfortable. It's different if the mother tries it for a few weeks and decides she *HATES *it. But people who dismiss it without even giving it a go kind of angers me a little :| 
I won't apologise for my opinion but I'm sorry if you were massively offended by it.


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## nikky0907

I wasn't massivly offended,but I just think that you have no right to be angered but my personal choice.
Thats it.


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## Blah11

I'm sure you get angered by how some people discipline their children, or the morals they teach them. Same thing applies here.

I didn't say you're a bad mother b/c you aren't breastfeeding, I said I think it's selfish that you're not giving it a go.


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## nikky0907

Thats different.Because the way people teach their children wrong things one day affects the world and other people.

Will me not breastfeeding one day affect the world?


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## Blah11

No but it could affect your child.


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## Blah11

and if you want to get technical..

https://www.womenshealth.gov/breastfeeding/index.cfm?page=227

look @ benefits for soceity.


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## nikky0907

I don't believe that.

I work with kids in a home.I see them every day,most of them who were abandoned at birth are of course bottlefed.They are perfectly healthy children,I see no difference between them and kids whos mother have breastfed them.
I myself wasn't breastfed and I have an excellent immune system and was a very advanced child.Same as my sister.


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## Blah11

Okay. Lets just agree to disagree.


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## nikky0907

I am not looking at any links or anything.Cause I could now go up and down the internet finding you resources that say that there is no difference...I won't.
And yes,breast milk is maybe the best but formula will NOT in any way negativly affect my child.


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## Blah11

Formula doesn't contain antibodies and babys (in general) don't digest formula as well as breastmilk. + say what you want but it's a scientific fact. Babys who aren't breastfed get sick more often.


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## brownhairedmom

Okay I know I shouldn't be butting in on your debate here BUT...


I plan to breast feed but I may very well have to bottle feed because I'm leaving my child for hours at a time when she's a month old to go back to school. If I can't pump, its going to have to be bottle.

However, I think it IS very judgemental to say that it is selfish. You could preach all you want about how good breast milk is, and even if it is better, you still have no RIGHT to belittle someone else's choice or decision. And yes, saying its selfish or that people who bottle feed are not providing or taking care of their children as they should is belittling.

Have your opinions, but have some tact as well.


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## nikky0907

Thats not true.
It depends on many factors.Genes,family history...

I have tons of examples of breastfed children who get sick every month and then some bottlefed who never get sick(like me).
I'm not connecting that to the way they were fed as children in the slightest.


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## Blah11

I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.


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## Blah11

nikky0907 said:


> Thats not true.
> It depends on many factors.Genes,family history...
> 
> I have tons of examples of breastfed children who get sick every month and then some bottlefed who never get sick(like me).
> I'm not connecting that to the way they were fed as children in the slightest.

Um there's always going to be the exception to the rule :\ I'm talking about in general.


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## nikky0907

Yes,I am a freak of nature.


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## Blah11

nikky0907 said:


> Yes,I am a freak of nature.

:roll:


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## brownhairedmom

Blah11 said:


> I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.

She doesn't have to try, its her choice and she shouldn't be made to feel crap about her choice :dohh:


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## Blah11

rae05 said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.
> 
> She doesn't have to try, its her choice and she shouldn't be made to feel crap about her choice :dohh:Click to expand...

No, she doesn't. But I think it's selfish that she chooses not to.


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## nikky0907

ok,well now that you shared that with us.....I think I'll go and have breakfast.:munch:


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## leedsforever

I dont think Blah11 isnt intentionally belittling anyone!! She is just expressing her opinions!! Im the same.... I dont really understand why someone wouldnt TRY to breastfeed but I appreciate that everyone has their own reasons!!! She didnt say that people who bottle feed are not providing or taking care of their children!! She just finds it selfish!

a few weeks back I had a grown woman say "i never breastfed I couldnt imagine something sucking on my tit"!! I was SHOCKED :shock:!! breastfeeding is the most natural thing in the world and your newborn baby will turn his/her head towards your breast when your holding him/her in the first weeks of life!! 

For me.... I know I wont be able to do it in public and I dont want to turn into a recluse for the first 6 months or whatever of my babies life!! I also dont want the feeling of being trapped!! If I cant express then... I can say goodbye to the gym or the little chance of social life I may have!! I think my mental health is important and it is something that doesnt help with the baby blues/ or PND... being stuck indoors!

Without be able to express I really doubt very much I will breastfeed for anything longer than 6 weeks!! But they say anything is better than never doing it at all!!

My friend really struggled with bf as baby suffered really bad jaundice and stayed in hospital for the first week of her life!! But she managed to express her first feed!! Which as a mother satisfied her!! :)


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## leedsforever

nikky0907 said:


> ok,well now that you shared that with us.....I think I'll go and have breakfast.:munch:

yey :yipee: Im thinking lunch!!

YUM!!!!!!!


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## danni2609

I agree that being bottle fed is not a bad thing they make the formulas just a good these days and my daughter is perfectly healthy. I have found what blah has said to be very wrong and im intending to bottle feed this time too. You are not a mother yet either so u cant critise others ie people like me who are!


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## Blah11

danni2609 said:


> I agree that being bottle fed is not a bad thing they make the formulas just a good these days and my daughter is perfectly healthy. I have found what blah has said to be very wrong and im intending to bottle feed this time too. You are not a mother yet either so u cant critise others ie people like me who are!

excuse me? what has me 'not being a mother yet' to go to do with anything?
+ Nothing is as good as breastmilk. It's silly to try and say otherwise b/c even a monkey would know it's not.


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## brownhairedmom

Blah nobody is saying you are wrong. There are many benefits to breastfeeding, and I'm sure the person in question here (Amy) realizes that. She just isn't comfortable with breastfeeding. 

The whole reason people are being offended is because of the way you are wording your posts. You come across (to me anyway) that you are attacking her (and any mother on here who feels the same way)or viewing her as lesser than you because of her decision to bottle feed from the very start.

I'm not trying to stir up s**t here today, but I personally just feel that you're being disrespectful in the way that you're saying things here. It isn't what your saying, its how you're saying them.


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## danni2609

well duh! But im afraid im obvoiusly very selfish and u r brilliant then! Look im not gunna argue with u about this just both feel strongly bout it and i do think ur very patronising!!


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## leedsforever

danni2609 said:


> I agree that being bottle fed is not a bad thing they make the formulas just a good these days and my daughter is perfectly healthy. I have found what blah has said to be very wrong and im intending to bottle feed this time too. You are not a mother yet either so u cant critise others ie people like me who are!

I disagree formulas are not "just as good"!! But they are a very good subsitute!!

I dont think being pregnant with your 1st gives you any less of a right to have an opinion!!!


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## Blah11

Well I've said 'i dont think it makes you a bad mother'. I thought that would have made it perfectly clear.. obviously not.


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## danni2609

well im afraid we dont all agree on this but thats my personal opinion


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## Blah11

danni2609 said:


> well duh! But im afraid im obvoiusly very selfish and u r brilliant then! Look im not gunna argue with u about this just both feel strongly bout it and i do think ur very patronising!!

If you can't discuss this like an adult then I'm not going to respond to you. I don't wish to get into a preschool type arguement with you. I'm not 5.


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## leedsforever

Blah11 said:


> Well I've said 'i dont think it makes you a bad mother'. I thought that would have made it perfectly clear.. obviously not.

it was clear to me!!! 
There was a debate on breastfeeding only a week or so ago!! And to me it seems as soon as someone says they are going to bottle feed they immediately try and justify why.... like those who have chosen to bottle feed put up a guard and are expecting to be criticised!!!
Thats how it seems to me anyway!! :shrug:!!

Maybe you was a tad blunt saying you thought it was selfish!! :shrug:


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## nikky0907

'Selfish' is an insulting word to call someone.Thats what wind me up.

I know that breast milk is best in genral.But formula is a very good sub as Kerry said.
I appreciate and RESPECT choices of every woman on this board.

Now I'm going back to my breakfast....and I'm not having milk.:D


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## Blah11

leedsforever said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Well I've said 'i dont think it makes you a bad mother'. I thought that would have made it perfectly clear.. obviously not.
> 
> it was clear to me!!!
> There was a debate on breastfeeding only a week or so ago!! And to me it seems as soon as someone says they are going to bottle feed they immediately try and justify why.... like those who have chosen to bottle feed put up a guard and are expecting to be criticised!!!
> Thats how it seems to me anyway!! :shrug:!!
> 
> Maybe you was a tad blunt saying you thought it was selfish!! :shrug:Click to expand...

I'm generally a pretty blunt person but I guess it's something that really irks me.


+ yeah, I agree with the whole justification of bottle feeding. Like I said, it's not the fact that they're bottle feeding, it's the fact that they're not willing to give breastfeeding a try. Why would you not try your best to do whats best for your child? It baffles me.


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## danni2609

I didnt get the chance to try my hubby was passed the baby and a bottle and told to feed her i then thought it was too late to try now i know i could of but it was all new to me and just thought it was too late but i was happy with it in the end anyway and thats why ive decided to again.


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## Blah11

danni2609 said:


> I didnt get the chance to try my hubby was passed the baby and a bottle and told to feed her i then thought it was too late to try now i know i could of but it was all new to me and just thought it was too late but i was happy with it in the end anyway and thats why ive decided to again.

:S what? I hope you don't plan on going to same hospital this time round if that was the case... what sort of idiot midwife would do that?


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## nikky0907

Blah11 said:


> I'm generally a pretty blunt person but I guess it's something that really irks me.
> 
> 
> + yeah, I agree with the whole justification of bottle feeding. Like I said, it's not the fact that they're bottle feeding, it's the fact that they're not willing to give breastfeeding a try. Why would you not try your best to do whats best for your child? It baffles me.

A happy mom=happy baby.

If the mom feels uncomfortable and bad I'm guessing the baby won't enjoy it too much either.


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## leedsforever

my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!

Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!


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## leedsforever

nikky0907 said:


> A happy mom=happy baby.
> 
> If the mom feels uncomfortable and bad I'm guessing the baby won't enjoy it too much either.

Thats exactly why if I cant express I will be turning to formula!!! :)


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## Blah11

leedsforever said:


> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!

I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.


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## danni2609

Tell me about i was quite upset as it was on my birthplan to try and breastfeed but they were so busy they didnt even look at the plan! I want a homebirth this time as the whole experience of that hospital was generally awful!


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## Blah11

nikky0907 said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I'm generally a pretty blunt person but I guess it's something that really irks me.
> 
> 
> + yeah, I agree with the whole justification of bottle feeding. Like I said, it's not the fact that they're bottle feeding, it's the fact that they're not willing to give breastfeeding a try. Why would you not try your best to do whats best for your child? It baffles me.
> 
> A happy mom=happy baby.
> 
> If the mom feels uncomfortable and bad I'm guessing the baby won't enjoy it too much either.Click to expand...

Quite a few mothers on here hated the idea of breastfeeding then ended up really enjoying it. 'don't knock it til you try it' lol


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## leedsforever

Blah11 said:


> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!
> 
> I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.Click to expand...

But you cant actually write down how many oz etc... like my friend had to do in the hospital!!


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## nikky0907

leedsforever said:


> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> A happy mom=happy baby.
> 
> If the mom feels uncomfortable and bad I'm guessing the baby won't enjoy it too much either.
> 
> Thats exactly why if I cant express I will be turning to formula!!! :)Click to expand...

I bet anything that you will be do fine expressing hun! :hugs:


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## Blah11

danni2609 said:


> Tell me about i was quite upset as it was on my birthplan to try and breastfeed but they were so busy they didnt even look at the plan! I want a homebirth this time as the whole experience of that hospital was generally awful!

I'd of been like 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' and snatched the baby back :hissy:

Why don't you want to try with this one if you were upset that you couldn't with your last?


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## Blah11

leedsforever said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!
> 
> I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.Click to expand...
> 
> But you cant actually write down how many oz etc... like my friend had to do in the hospital!!Click to expand...

oo why did she have to do that? Was her baby premature or something? If I had to do that I'd switch to formula I think :( I don't think I could solely express. I don't mind expressing for 1 or 2 feeds a day, but not all of them.


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## danni2609

This prob will said bad i have thought bout it but i just know what im doing with formula and thought it mite be hard with a two year old aswell to look after to learn! That prob sounds stupid and i actually would like to do it just scares me now!


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## brownhairedmom

Anyway, back to ryder's question before she gets back on here and sees what her thread has turned into.....


Has anyone exclusively pumped after the first few days when milk comes in?


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## leedsforever

Blah11 said:


> oo why did she have to do that? Was her baby premature or something? If I had to do that I'd switch to formula I think :( I don't think I could solely express. I don't mind expressing for 1 or 2 feeds a day, but not all of them.

Baby was jaundice quite badly... as i think because my friend was rh neg and had to have all those injections... baby still had crossed over blood types!!
She wasnt very well and baby just wasnt latching on to the breast! I think baby went over 12 hours without eating!! So they swapped to SMA and she was writing down how much her baby had to drink!!! Personally I would have prob have been abit more persistant in the expressing but she said it really hurt!! One thing Im not looking forward to :(


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## Blah11

danni2609 said:


> This prob will said bad i have thought bout it but i just know what im doing with formula and thought it mite be hard with a two year old aswell to look after to learn! That prob sounds stupid and i actually would like to do it just scares me now!

Aw :( Maybe you could talk to your midwife about your concerns and explain what happened last time? I think you'd be fine with your 2 year old though. My mum managed with me and my siblings. We are 22, 20, 18 and 10 :)


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## leedsforever

rae05 said:


> Anyway, back to ryder's question before she gets back on here and sees what her thread has turned into.....
> 
> 
> Has anyone exclusively pumped after the first few days when milk comes in?

I was so thinking this lol....

Ryders going to come back and be like WTF?!?! :)

But I would indeed like to know the answer to the original question too!!


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## Blah11

leedsforever said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> oo why did she have to do that? Was her baby premature or something? If I had to do that I'd switch to formula I think :( I don't think I could solely express. I don't mind expressing for 1 or 2 feeds a day, but not all of them.
> 
> Baby was jaundice quite badly... as i think because my friend was rh neg and had to have all those injections... baby still had crossed over blood types!!
> She wasnt very well and baby just wasnt latching on to the breast! I think baby went over 12 hours without eating!! So they swapped to SMA and she was writing down how much her baby had to drink!!! Personally I would have prob have been abit more persistant in the expressing but she said it really hurt!! One thing Im not looking forward to :(Click to expand...

Oh, that can't be really common though so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I bet you'll do fine feeding and expressing :D


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## danni2609

yeh i did mention i was thinking about it but then i kind of just decided on bottle i will have to think about this furthur now! Thanx


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## Blah11

rae05 said:


> Anyway, back to ryder's question before she gets back on here and sees what her thread has turned into.....
> 
> 
> Has anyone exclusively pumped after the first few days when milk comes in?

Obviously no for me, but if she is going to exclusively express milk then maybe she could get double electric pumps. I hear manuals are a bit of a nightmare and take ages and ages to get milk out. Probably not that great an idea when you have all the other things to do that comes with having a brand new baby.


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## AppleBlossom

I found feeding painful and pumping painless, used an electric pump x


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## PeanutBean

Blah11 said:


> Obviously no for me, but if she is going to exclusively express milk then maybe she could get double electric pumps. I hear manuals are a bit of a nightmare and take ages and ages to get milk out. Probably not that great an idea when you have all the other things to do that comes with having a brand new baby.

This is slightly sideways to the point but might be of interest: my sister recently told me that the easiest way to express is on the other side whilst you are feeding - this might be particularly relevant to you Leeds if you plan to do lots of expressing. I'm not sure if her pump is manual or electric, though I suspect manual - she says it's tricky to get the hang of both at first though! lol


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## ryder

leedsforever said:


> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> Anyway, back to ryder's question before she gets back on here and sees what her thread has turned into.....
> 
> Has anyone exclusively pumped after the first few days when milk comes in?
> 
> I was so thinking this lol....
> 
> Ryders going to come back and be like WTF?!?! :)
> 
> But I would indeed like to know the answer to the original question too!!Click to expand...


LMAO!!! Don't worry.... I half expected it, there are some people on this BB who have some pretty strong opinions either way on the subject... which is totally fine. 

However, the kind of post blah made originally is NOT the kind of response I wanted. There is no need to come on here and start up crap calling people who decide to feed formula selfish. 

That may very well be her opinion, but that isn't what this is about. 

It is about pumping... I will not be breastfeeding as it simply is not for me. I will try pumping, if it doesn't work I will feed formula and even if pumping does work, I will likely supplement with formula. 

Back a long time ago when there were no vaccines for babies, breastfeeding DID provide good anti-bodies etc that are not found in formula. But times are changing and babies have quite a number of vaccines which provide them against alot of the illnesses anyways, plus the baby gets some of the anti-bodies from the mother in utero. 

Good quality formulas now have many of the same nutrients, vitamins etc that breastmilk does. 

Like nikky, I have worked before in a foster home with newborns and children, and I can tell you that all of these newborns were VERY happy and healthy on formula. And you still had s special bond with each and every of the babies, even though they were not yours. 

I hate reading others say formula or bottle feeding is selfish, there are many different reasons for that choice, and some people who are anti-bottle feeding take things WAY TOO FAR imo... Women who have trouble breastfeeding or need to change to formula for whatever reason are often made to feel guilty IMO and that should not be happening. 

Thank you girls for your opinions... I really would like to hear from some people who have experience pumping. Some people are successful at it, and some arn't, I do know this.


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## Blah11

lol I'm not antibottle feeding. I'm anti-motherswhodon'ttryit.

Breastfeeding helps baby not get ear infections and gastric problems as well, not just the big diseases.


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## ryder

Blah11 said:


> lol I'm not antibottle feeding. I'm anti-motherswhodon'ttryit.
> 
> Breastfeeding helps baby not get ear infections and gastric problems as well, not just the big diseases.


I work in a hospital, im not a complete idiot. 

Breastfeeding may help those things, but it is only on a very small scale. The way people word things like that makes it sound like breastfeeding is some kind of miracle vaccine and that their children wont get sick ever. 

Ears infections happen, so do throat infections, eye infections, colds, coughs, laryngitis, stomach bugs, chicken pox etc... They happen whether you are breastfed or not, and all of these small illnesses help you build up anti-bodies against larger scale illnesses and infections. 

No one likes their babies to get sick, it isn't nice to think about it, but it is reality that it will happen, no matter what. Children get sick. 

The only thing that would make a baby susceptible to illness that way was if it was badly malnourished, and feeding formula is by no means malnourishing your baby.


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## clairebear

i havent started pumping yet but i love BF and it doesnt hurt x


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## brownhairedmom

ryder said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> lol I'm not antibottle feeding. I'm anti-motherswhodon'ttryit.
> 
> Breastfeeding helps baby not get ear infections and gastric problems as well, not just the big diseases.
> 
> 
> I work in a hospital, im not a complete idiot.
> 
> Breastfeeding may help those things, but it is only on a very small scale. The way people word things like that makes it sound like breastfeeding is some kind of miracle vaccine and that their children wont get sick ever.
> 
> Ears infections happen, so do throat infections, eye infections, colds, coughs, laryngitis, stomach bugs, chicken pox etc... They happen whether you are breastfed or not, and all of these small illnesses help you build up anti-bodies against larger scale illnesses and infections.
> 
> No one likes their babies to get sick, it isn't nice to think about it, but it is reality that it will happen, no matter what. Children get sick.
> 
> The only thing that would make a baby susceptible to illness that way was if it was badly malnourished, and feeding formula is by no means malnourishing your baby.Click to expand...


Very well put!!!


Does anyone know how soon you can start pumping? I need to start doing that as quickly as possible so I can start expressing for 2-3 feeds a day


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## leedsforever

they advise you to not do it for the first few weeks however in my opinion its down to the mother!!! And my friend did it the day her baby was born so it can be done :)


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## sam's mum

I don't find pumping uncomfortable at all (or breastfeeding, although my nipples were really bad at first!) and have never had any problems with it (just with a manual pump too), although I don't do it that often. You're advised not to start too early because your breasts need cues from your baby sucking (even when they're not getting much out) to tell them how much milk to produce, and before your milk comes in (and when you're still getting used to the pump) you probably won't get very much - at first Sam used to feed for hours all through the day! x


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## Carley

nikky0907 said:


> Well,I don't know about Ryder but I also definitely won't be breastfeeding because it is for me uncomfortable,I don't like the thought of it or the concept of it....it's just not something I want to do.
> I will bottle feed.
> 
> So,there....it's probably not my place to answer this since you asked her the question and probably don't care about my answer...but there.:shrug:

I don't understand why when it is completely natural.


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## Carley

Blah11 said:


> idk i still think its selfish when people don't even try to breastfeed.

I agree, but I try not to judge them. It's hard when people have wrong ideas about breast-feeding.


----------



## Carley

Blah11 said:


> danni2609 said:
> 
> 
> I agree that being bottle fed is not a bad thing they make the formulas just a good these days and my daughter is perfectly healthy. I have found what blah has said to be very wrong and im intending to bottle feed this time too. You are not a mother yet either so u cant critise others ie people like me who are!
> 
> excuse me? what has me 'not being a mother yet' to go to do with anything?
> + Nothing is as good as breastmilk. It's silly to try and say otherwise b/c even a monkey would know it's not.Click to expand...

I agree formula is no where near as good as breast milk, that's why it's called a substitute. And yes I've pumped and used formula. I've been on both sides.


----------



## Carley

Blah11 said:


> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!
> 
> I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.Click to expand...

True a baby will stop when they are full...


----------



## Carley

rae05 said:


> Anyway, back to ryder's question before she gets back on here and sees what her thread has turned into.....
> 
> 
> Has anyone exclusively pumped after the first few days when milk comes in?

I pumped for the first couple of months, do you have any questions? :)


----------



## Carley

Blah11 said:


> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> Anyway, back to ryder's question before she gets back on here and sees what her thread has turned into.....
> 
> 
> Has anyone exclusively pumped after the first few days when milk comes in?
> 
> Obviously no for me, but if she is going to exclusively express milk then maybe she could get double electric pumps. I hear manuals are a bit of a nightmare and take ages and ages to get milk out. Probably not that great an idea when you have all the other things to do that comes with having a brand new baby.Click to expand...

I love electric pumps, I always got a great supply but manuals....eeekkk :hissy:


----------



## Carley

I always said if people are confident in their decision to breast-feed or formula feed, then don't justify. It is a personal choice and just because someone else may not agree with it, just smile nod and move on. We all have our opinions and to us they are right. I'm keen on breast-feeding, I know I'll give it everything I have. If I use formula it doesn't make me or you any the less of the mother.


----------



## Landingmach3

ryder said:


> For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly.
> 
> I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.

I heard that going between formula and breast milk isn't too good for baby's digestive system. anyone else been told this?


----------



## ryder

Well Carley, for some people breastfeeding is not natural feeling, no one here has the wrong idea about breastfeeding either, for some people the thought of a living thing sucking off them is disturbing... And I know for one I will not force myself to do something im not comfortable doing just because some people thing im selfish. 

We are all big girls and can make our own decisions, for me, and others, it is a comfort thing.


----------



## ryder

Landingmach3 said:


> ryder said:
> 
> 
> For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly.
> 
> I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.
> 
> I heard that going between formula and breast milk isn't too good for baby's digestive system. anyone else been told this?Click to expand...

That is not true. However, when you introduce formula after exclusively breastfeeding, you should introduce it gradually as it is something new. 

Many of the formulas now are very highly developed and are created to be easily digested.


----------



## Carley

Landingmach3 said:


> ryder said:
> 
> 
> For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly.
> 
> I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.
> 
> I heard that going between formula and breast milk isn't too good for baby's digestive system. anyone else been told this?Click to expand...

I found it made my daughter always constipated :(


----------



## Carley

ryder said:


> Landingmach3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ryder said:
> 
> 
> For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly.
> 
> I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.
> 
> I heard that going between formula and breast milk isn't too good for baby's digestive system. anyone else been told this?Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true. However, when you introduce formula after exclusively breastfeeding, you should introduce it gradually as it is something new.
> 
> Many of the formulas now are very highly developed and are created to be easily digested.Click to expand...

I think it depends on the baby, when we were weaning because my supply was fading, we did a bottle of formula a day for a week then two a day and it still made her constipated, that's why I believe it depends on the baby.


----------



## ryder

Did you split the bottle up and give small amounts throughout the day? Intermittedly with the breast milk? Ideally you should be splitting it into small amounts either with breastmilk or in bettween breast milk feedings, because yes, your putting something new into the babys system. It isnt the formula itself that causes issues, its just the change. 

However, I think your formulas may be different where you are.


----------



## Carley

ryder said:


> Did you split the bottle up and give small amounts throughout the day? Intermittedly with the breast milk? Ideally you should be splitting it into small amounts either with breastmilk or in bettween breast milk feedings, because yes, your putting something new into the babys system. It isnt the formula itself that causes issues, its just the change.
> 
> However, I think your formulas may be different where you are.

We have different formula's I believe. We did split it over the day. I know it worked for my friend which is great but not for us :) That's why for me I'll pump or breast-feed. :)


----------



## leedsforever

Landingmach3 said:


> ryder said:
> 
> 
> For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly.
> 
> I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.
> 
> I heard that going between formula and breast milk isn't too good for baby's digestive system. anyone else been told this?Click to expand...

I have read that going between the two isnt always as succesful!! The two have different tastes... and you may find that the baby may favour one over the other!!


----------



## Blah11

Just be warned if you want to supplement breastfeeding with formula..

You may find it extremely difficult to breastfeed at all once you've introduced formula from a bottle. Not only does your baby find it easier and quicker to get milk from a bottle (they don't need to suck anywhere near as much/hard so they much prefer it) but your breasts don't get the signal that baby is feeding so you need to produce more milk.


----------



## PeanutBean

Blah11 said:


> Just be warned if you want to supplement breastfeeding with formula..
> 
> You may find it extremely difficult to breastfeed at all once you've introduced formula from a bottle. Not only does your baby find it easier and quicker to get milk from a bottle (they don't need to suck anywhere near as much/hard so they much prefer it) but your breasts don't get the signal that baby is feeding so you need to produce more milk.

I read that if you do plan on breastfeeding (in whole or in part) then you shouldn't introduce bottle feeding at all for a while, I think it was maybe 6 weeks? You also shouldn't give them a dummy during that time. Presumably because of the sucking thing Blah says above.


----------



## nikky0907

Carley said:


> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> Well,I don't know about Ryder but I also definitely won't be breastfeeding because it is for me uncomfortable,I don't like the thought of it or the concept of it....it's just not something I want to do.
> I will bottle feed.
> 
> So,there....it's probably not my place to answer this since you asked her the question and probably don't care about my answer...but there.:shrug:
> 
> I don't understand why when it is completely natural.Click to expand...

To you maybe and to some women.To me it's very far from being natural...:shrug:


----------



## Neecee

nikky0907 said:


> Carley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> Well,I don't know about Ryder but I also definitely won't be breastfeeding because it is for me uncomfortable,I don't like the thought of it or the concept of it....it's just not something I want to do.
> I will bottle feed.
> 
> So,there....it's probably not my place to answer this since you asked her the question and probably don't care about my answer...but there.:shrug:
> 
> I don't understand why when it is completely natural.Click to expand...
> 
> To you maybe and to some women.To me it's very far from being natural...:shrug:Click to expand...

Why do you think women have breasts? :huh:

*EDIT*

Would you not even try letting your newborn get the first lot of colostrum your breasts produce? It's the best thing they can get in them when they come out. Filling their systems with a cows milk-based formula is not the best start for a newborn.


----------



## nikky0907

I am done and finished explaining myself or justifying my choices.

:)


----------



## ryder

nikky0907 said:


> I am done and finished explaining myself or justifying my choices.
> 
> :)

Yep... me too... And quite frankly, it no ones damn business what choice we make, so never let yourself feel bad about it. 

:hugs:


----------



## Neecee

ryder said:


> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> I am done and finished explaining myself or justifying my choices.
> 
> :)
> 
> Yep... me too... And quite frankly, it no ones damn business what choice we make, so never let yourself feel bad about it.
> 
> :hugs:Click to expand...

This is a discussion forum. People WILL ask questions long after you've finished "justifying" yourselves and if you don't want it to be anyone's business, don't bring it up!:winkwink:

If you _can't_ breastfeed for whatever reason, then so be it, but I think other mums and mums-to-be find it hard to understand why someone just _wouldn't_ want to give their baby the best start in life. And it's not just for baby, it's beneficial for the mother too.


----------



## sam's mum

PeanutBean said:


> I read that if you do plan on breastfeeding (in whole or in part) then you shouldn't introduce bottle feeding at all for a while, I think it was maybe 6 weeks? You also shouldn't give them a dummy during that time. Presumably because of the sucking thing Blah says above.

I was advised to try Sam on a bottle every few days from 4 weeks (I had to be away from him for a day when he was just over 2 months old) - by then breastfeeding has been established so you shouldn't need to worry about nipple confusion, but after 6 weeks they are more likely to refuse a bottle x


----------



## Neecee

Neecee said:


> ryder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> I am done and finished explaining myself or justifying my choices.
> 
> :)
> 
> Yep... me too... And quite frankly, it no ones damn business what choice we make, so never let yourself feel bad about it.
> 
> :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> This is a discussion forum. People WILL ask questions long after you've finished "justifying" yourselves and if you don't want it to be anyone's business, don't bring it up!:winkwink:
> 
> If you _can't_ breastfeed for whatever reason, then so be it, but I think other mums and mums-to-be find it hard to understand why someone just _wouldn't_ want to give their baby the best start in life. And it's not just for baby, it's beneficial for the mother too.Click to expand...

*EDIT*

Just a thought: Maybe breastfeeding isn't as widely encouraged over there as it is over here?


----------



## ryder

Neecee, this thread was not made to get into a discussion about formula and breastfeeding... If you actually go and read the initial post, it was asking who has pumped and their experiences. Someone else took the liberty of making a rude comment about people not wanting to breastfeed.

If I wanted to have a big debate, I would have made a thread about whether people favoured breastfeeding or formula feeding.


----------



## Linzi

Ive found pumping is quite easy, although obvs feeding is a lot easier.

I always wanted to breastfeed, and I said that if i couldn't I would express milk. I would still stick to that now if for whatever reason breastfeeding stopped working for us. Although Im not sure how your supply would adjust from just pumping alone? 

But I don't think it's nuncomfortable, painful, unpleasent... its indifferent.

Give it a try, no harm in that. It will be different for everyone. I know someone who said it really hurt her to express so who knows.

Good luck with whatever you decide :) Theres a lot of great support for breastfeeding mothers so grab it with both hands if you struggle :)

xxx


----------



## Neecee

ryder said:


> Neecee, this thread was not made to get into a discussion about formula and breastfeeding... If you actually go and read the initial post, it was asking who has pumped and their experiences

I've read through the entire thread, thanks, and I made no reference to it being a discussion about breastfeeding or pumping preferences. I was simply stating that it's an open forum and if people don't like their business being discussed, they have complete control over what they type or don't type.:D


----------



## Serene123

This thread has actually just pissed me the f*ck off. Alright, breast feeding might not be for you but to say it's not natural is the most stupid thing I have ever read in my LIFE. What exactly were you taught is the definition of natural? I cannot for one second believe that when my little girl is on my boob looking up at me, that it's not natural and not the way it's supposed to be.

If you choose not to breast feed, that's your business, but it is natural, it is how it's supposed to be, and I'm quite offended.


----------



## Blah11

toriaaaaTRASH said:


> This thread has actually just pissed me the f*ck off. Alright, breast feeding might not be for you but to say it's not natural is the most stupid thing I have ever read in my LIFE. What exactly were you taught is the definition of natural? I cannot for one second believe that when my little girl is on my boob looking up at me, that it's not natural and not the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> If you choose not to breast feed, that's your business, but it is natural, it is how it's supposed to be, and I'm quite offended.

People tend to see breasts as a sexual object.. which is quite stupid b/c a baby attached to it is quite possibly the least sexual thing I can think of in the world. It's that way of thinking that makes women feel uncomfortable breastfeeding their baby in public which is quite terrible to be honest.


----------



## Blah11

ryder said:


> Neecee, this thread was not made to get into a discussion about formula and breastfeeding... If you actually go and read the initial post, it was asking who has pumped and their experiences. Someone else took the liberty of making a rude comment about people not wanting to breastfeed.
> 
> If I wanted to have a big debate, I would have made a thread about whether people favoured breastfeeding or formula feeding.

You have almost 1000 posts. You should know by now that threads do tend to derive from the original post :\


----------



## Neecee

Blah11 said:


> toriaaaaTRASH said:
> 
> 
> This thread has actually just pissed me the f*ck off. Alright, breast feeding might not be for you but to say it's not natural is the most stupid thing I have ever read in my LIFE. What exactly were you taught is the definition of natural? I cannot for one second believe that when my little girl is on my boob looking up at me, that it's not natural and not the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> If you choose not to breast feed, that's your business, but it is natural, it is how it's supposed to be, and I'm quite offended.
> 
> People tend to see breasts as a sexual object.. which is quite stupid b/c a baby attached to it is quite possibly the least sexual thing I can think of in the world. It's that way of thinking that makes women feel uncomfortable breastfeeding their baby in public which is quite terrible to be honest.Click to expand...

I agree with that. There is nothing sexual about breastfeeding my child whatsoever and I believe that's why a lot of women see it as uncomfortable and unnatural. God put them there primarily to nourish our children - whatever we've done with them since then should not detract from their original function!

Actually, maybe we should start a different thread to debate this as it has kinda wandered...


----------



## oOKayOo

wow what a post , i chose to not breast feed both children didnt try it. im the same as nikky , i dont feel comfortable, my daughters still got the best start in life with LOVE , milk yes is " better" from breast but from formula is near enough the same if you get closest to breast milk( for those people that think WTF she said its the same i said *NEARLY* the same) Aslong as my daughter is fed thats all that matters , she is healthy loved and thats all that matters. Just because i didnt try and breast feed doesnt make me selfish at all , i dont feel comfortable with someone sucking on my boobs even though its natural i just couldnt do it.

I shouldnt need to read that people think others a selfish for not trying.. people feel differently not everyone is the same..


----------



## leedsforever

ryder said:


> Neecee, this thread was not made to get into a discussion about formula and breastfeeding... If you actually go and read the initial post, it was asking who has pumped and their experiences. Someone else took the liberty of making a rude comment about people not wanting to breastfeed.
> 
> If I wanted to have a big debate, I would have made a thread about whether people favoured breastfeeding or formula feeding.

I agree the original thread was about expressing.... therefore maybe those who have no intention of even breastfeeding or expressing shouldnt have commented if they didnt want comments thrown back at them :shrug:

the question was not.... breast or bottle??

it was peoples experiences of pumping??

Im not saying those members who wrote about not doing either SHOULDNT have but if they hadnt then the thread wouldnt have been swayed into more of a debate!


----------



## Linzi

Blah11 said:


> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!
> 
> I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.Click to expand...

No. Actually the one thing I dislike about breastfeeding is not knowing how much they're getting. It can be very scary when they don't eat for a hile or eat a lot. You wonder if they're hungry/full/poorly. My little boy was ill recently and stopped eating and I almost ignored it because I thought he might have just been not hngry, but he had a virus and needed treatment for it. Had I inored it, he wouldn't have got the treatment he needed and possibly beome more ill. 

Its VERY difficult to know exactly how much which is why I think bottlefeeding is a good idea (expressed milk or formula). I wouold do it but BF works well for us :)

xxx


----------



## leedsforever

Linzi said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!
> 
> I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.Click to expand...
> 
> No. Actually the one thing I dislike about breastfeeding is not knowing how much they're getting. It can be very scary when they don't eat for a hile or eat a lot. You wonder if they're hungry/full/poorly. My little boy was ill recently and stopped eating and I almost ignored it because I thought he might have just been not hngry, but he had a virus and needed treatment for it. Had I inored it, he wouldn't have got the treatment he needed and possibly beome more ill.
> 
> Its VERY difficult to know exactly how much which is why I think bottlefeeding is a good idea (expressed milk or formula). I wouold do it but BF works well for us :)
> 
> xxxClick to expand...

this worries me too!! I think i might keep a feed diary...so I can work out how much my baby is feeding and for how long!! (obviously when I go onto expressing I wont need to)!! 

I did read thought that bottle fed babies are more likely to be overfed!!


----------



## ryder

toriaaaaTRASH said:


> This thread has actually just pissed me the f*ck off. Alright, breast feeding might not be for you but to say it's not natural is the most stupid thing I have ever read in my LIFE. What exactly were you taught is the definition of natural? I cannot for one second believe that when my little girl is on my boob looking up at me, that it's not natural and not the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> If you choose not to breast feed, that's your business, but it is natural, it is how it's supposed to be, and I'm quite offended.

Good grief, I believe both Nikky and I said that WE did not feel it was natural for US to breastfeed... It may be natural for you, but it is not natural for me. 

No one said it wasn't a natural occurance for the human race to breastfeed. 

So be pissed off all you want, but your totally blowing it out of context.


----------



## Linzi

The other thing Ive found is that Seth sits on the breast but isnt always taking milk, so he could be sitting there for 20 mins and onl eating for 5. If that makes sense. Its very confusing! but when you have your babies and get to know them then Im sure you will feel confident about if theyre eating properly.

Also Leeds (sorry to trail off the topic) I noticed you said about feeding in public. I didnt like the idea either, but its not half as bad as you think. Ive been out practically every day and fed in public 3 times. A lot of places cater for feeding and provide seperate places so please dont feel like you have to lock yourself away! it will drive you crazy! lol

xxx


----------



## clairebear

i love bfing and feeding in pu blic is fine i have had no problems i use a musiln or swaddling cloth draped over my shoulder to be more discreet it u feel u want to bf there are also discreet ops u can buy to x


----------



## leedsforever

I know there are discrete ways of doing it... and I might feel totally different after my first few weeks with my baby!! But I really cannot think of anywhere in my town centre where I can go!! 

I was also with my friend who ended up bottle feeding and it just seemed so much easier and less hassle... we could just feed her baby sitting in subway!!


----------



## Serene123

=nikky0907 said:


> To you maybe and to some women.To me it's very far from being natural...:shrug:

HMM. I think she just proved me right. How can you think it's not natural? :| Jeeeeez. Someone define natural to me please, because I don't think my definition seems to be the same as everybody elses.


----------



## clairebear

i fed my LO in boswells today x


----------



## leedsforever

clairebear said:


> i fed my LO in boswells today x

sorry whats boswells ? :blush:


----------



## clairebear

a coffee shop x


----------



## leedsforever

clairebear said:


> a coffee shop x

arr I see!! Thats a good idea... a coffee shop... Some restaurants are still asking women to stop in England though arent they??? I know the law is on our side in Scotland but in England the law isnt quite there!!


----------



## clairebear

im not sure but i think as long as u dont sit there with them hanging out whats the problem. 

women have been doig this for years and if my babe is hungry iwill feed him x


----------



## PeanutBean

leedsforever said:


> clairebear said:
> 
> 
> a coffee shop x
> 
> arr I see!! Thats a good idea... a coffee shop... Some restaurants are still asking women to stop in England though arent they??? I know the law is on our side in Scotland but in England the law isnt quite there!!Click to expand...

I'd like to them try and ask me to stop!!

You girls are all lucky though, I can't even think of an excuse for me to be in public after LO is born!


----------



## clairebear

trust me if some one tried to stop me there would be trouble xx


----------



## leedsforever

clairebear said:


> trust me if some one tried to stop me there would be trouble xx

yeah actually your right..... I would kick up a fuss too!!! I took a 2 litre bottle of water into the cinema on sat night.... there policy is strict in terms of buying things outside the premises!! But I was ready for them to tell me I couldnt take it!! They didnt luckily.... but its the same type of thing!!! I would have totally stuck up for myself and I will for my baby too!!! Thats if I do do it in public... we will see :):)


----------



## clairebear

end of the day if they are hungry i will feed them and if there is no where for me to go i will do it on a park bench its not likeim doing a bex :rofl:


----------



## leedsforever

:rofl: doing a Bex :rofl:


----------



## clairebear

i know thought u would appreciate that x


----------



## marley2580

I had to pump in hospital and I can tell you that it is very demoralising in the first few days, it seems like you can hardly get anything at all. What I would actually suggest is hand expressing, at least until your milk comes in. There's a few reasons for this - first, the small amounts you're getting at first mean that much of it can get lost in the mechanism of the pump, where as if you express by hand you get everything. Second, hand expressing is actually more efficient than a pump as it simulates the breast much like a baby would. You've got to make sure that you express a lot - 6-12 times in 24 hours, at least once or twice during the night, so that your supply is able to keep up with your baby.


----------



## Sarah88

Linzi said:


> No. Actually the one thing I dislike about breastfeeding is not knowing how much they're getting. It can be very scary when they don't eat for a hile or eat a lot. You wonder if they're hungry/full/poorly. My little boy was ill recently and stopped eating and I almost ignored it because I thought he might have just been not hngry, but he had a virus and needed treatment for it. Had I inored it, he wouldn't have got the treatment he needed and possibly beome more ill.
> 
> Its VERY difficult to know exactly how much which is why I think bottlefeeding is a good idea (expressed milk or formula). I wouold do it but BF works well for us :)
> 
> xxx

The thing with breast feeding is that you don't need to know how much they are getting; they know when they are full and when they are hungry. 

I'm lucky, my mum is a lactation consultant so i've been brought up very pro-BF, which means I don't see my breasts as a sexual object, and I never actually have.


----------



## Blah11

Linzi said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> my friend who only managed to breastfed her babies first feed continued with formula because she could monitor how much her baby was feeding!! She had to write it down!!
> 
> Thats something I like the idea of as well!! With a breast you dont know how much baby is drinking!!
> 
> I think you have a pretty good idea when your baby is satisfied in regards to breastfeeding. Also, you can see the milk gather in their chin and then they swallow. Besides, if it's not gaining weight then you know baby isn't getting enough.Click to expand...
> 
> No. Actually the one thing I dislike about breastfeeding is not knowing how much they're getting. It can be very scary when they don't eat for a hile or eat a lot. You wonder if they're hungry/full/poorly. My little boy was ill recently and stopped eating and I almost ignored it because I thought he might have just been not hngry, but he had a virus and needed treatment for it. Had I inored it, he wouldn't have got the treatment he needed and possibly beome more ill.
> 
> Its VERY difficult to know exactly how much which is why I think bottlefeeding is a good idea (expressed milk or formula). I wouold do it but BF works well for us :)
> 
> xxxClick to expand...

I've asked quite a few mothers and they all knew if the baby was feeding or not. Maybe it's diff for every person, idk.


----------



## Blah11

leedsforever said:


> clairebear said:
> 
> 
> a coffee shop x
> 
> arr I see!! Thats a good idea... a coffee shop... Some restaurants are still asking women to stop in England though arent they??? I know the law is on our side in Scotland but in England the law isnt quite there!!Click to expand...

I think the law is pretty much the same in either side of the border. i think it's illegal to chuck a pregnant woman out of a establishment for breastfeeding. i could be wrong though. I'd totally sue if someone did that to me.


----------



## sam's mum

Blah11 said:


> I think the law is pretty much the same in either side of the border. i think it's illegal to chuck a pregnant woman out of a establishment for breastfeeding. i could be wrong though. I'd totally sue if someone did that to me.

It's not the law in England yet...they do have the right to ask you to stop at the moment, but they're passing a law soon to change that:

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article4139093.ece

'Currently women can face charges under public order or indecency laws'

Still only up to 6 months though (think it might be for any child under 2 years in Scotland?) x


----------



## Whisper

sam's mum said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I think the law is pretty much the same in either side of the border. i think it's illegal to chuck a pregnant woman out of a establishment for breastfeeding. i could be wrong though. I'd totally sue if someone did that to me.
> 
> It's not the law in England yet...they do have the right to ask you to stop at the moment, but they're passing a law soon to change that:
> 
> https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle4139093.ece
> 
> 'Currently women can face charges under public order or indecency laws'
> 
> Still only up to 6 months though (think it might be for any child under 2 years in Scotland?) xClick to expand...

I didn't think this was right and found this article this morning....

https://www.babiesnappies.co.uk/breastfeeding-in-public-the-laws-made-clear/

Women cannot be asked to stop Breastfeeding, if she is then she can take legal action on the grounds of sexual discrimination, 

and 

Women certaintly cannot face charges themselves under public order or indecency laws.

A quote from the link

"Deputy Minister for Women Barbara Follett concluded: Mothers have to be confident that they can breastfeed their infants in a café, restaurant or shop without the embarrassment of having the owner ask them to stop. This type of discrimination has in fact been unlawful for more than thirty years, and the mother - with a baby of any age - could challenge the owner under the Sex Discrimination Act.

There really is still a lot of confusion around B/F in public.


----------



## leedsforever

arrr but thats very recent isnt it :):) good news :)


----------



## clairebear

wow so confused everything is comflicting each other 

i will still do it but wow im confused x


----------



## Neecee

So does that mean we have the right to stay put and tell them where to go? I'm all for feeding whenever and wherever, but I'm just worried that I'll be made to feel like some sort of freak for doing it - eventhough that's what my boobs are primarily for. I know some people have ways of making you feel crap for trying to do the best thing no matter what the law says.


----------



## leedsforever

https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76608&st=25&gopid=1387739&#entry1387739

Im "debating" with some other special police officers!!! Im getting mad!!! If you read maybe give me some pointers to make to these idiots!!


----------



## Whisper

leedsforever said:


> https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76608&st=25&gopid=1387739&#entry1387739
> 
> Im "debating" with some other special police officers!!! Im getting mad!!! If you read maybe give me some pointers to make to these idiots!!

wow !! i'm really really shocked at their replies! 

How narrow minded. I find it rude and inconsiderate when people talk with their mouths full of food, i find it rude and inconsiderate when people smoke in the street outside shops and restaurants and i have to walk past. (BTW i'm just quoting from the link, please don't anyone get offended) Seriously those guys need to wake up and get a reality check!


----------



## sam's mum

Thanks for that Whisper! This is from that article too - might want to put a link on the police forum Kerry! x

As Barbara Follett, Deputy Minister for Women and Equality, stated: The law is not as clear as it could be. People are unsure of their rights and their responsibilities in this area. Some people also think that women can be charged with indecency for breastfeeding in a public place. This is utter nonsense and completely wrong


----------



## leedsforever

done :) 

Im lufcrule by the way!!!! :)

:yipee:


----------



## sam's mum

leedsforever said:


> done :)
> 
> Im lufcrule by the way!!!! :)
> 
> :yipee:

Thanks! And I guessed that was you from the name! :D x


----------



## clairebear

u tell um kerry x


----------



## Whisper

leedsforever said:


> done :)
> 
> Im lufcrule by the way!!!! :)
> 
> :yipee:

Well done!!


----------



## leedsforever

You see that last comment???? How babies shouldnt be taking in a restaurant in the first place!!!!

MY GOD OUTRAGE :hissy: :hissy:


----------



## sam's mum

Neecee said:


> So does that mean we have the right to stay put and tell them where to go? I'm all for feeding whenever and wherever, but I'm just worried that I'll be made to feel like some sort of freak for doing it - eventhough that's what my boobs are primarily for. I know some people have ways of making you feel crap for trying to do the best thing no matter what the law says.

That's what worries me too. I'd be so upset if someone complained or I did get asked to leave somewhere, even if it was my right to be there x


----------



## clairebear

i wanna smack um x


----------



## Whisper

clairebear said:


> i wanna smack um x

Me too! 

I think Kerry you should reply, that all ugly people should be banned from restaurants because looking at them whilst you are trying to enjoy a nice meal, just makes you wanna vomit. :rofl:


----------



## nikky0907

Uuu,you told them good Kerry! You go girl! :yipee:

Now you can come and persuade my whole state in this...
I don't know if UK is more liberal on this subject or is it just my state but over here you would surely be asked to stop if you were to breastfeed in public.
People would ostracize you like a leper and would be gasping in shock!

Not to mention a restaurant,I would get kicked out!
It is _part_ of the reason that I won't be breastfeeding....


----------



## clairebear

:rofl: 



how narrow minded are some people :hissy:


----------



## leedsforever

im not surprised amy.... ist making me feel like maybe I would be doing something wrong!!!


----------



## leedsforever

Whisper said:


> clairebear said:
> 
> 
> i wanna smack um x
> 
> Me too!
> 
> I think Kerry you should reply, that all ugly people should be banned from restaurants because looking at them whilst you are trying to enjoy a nice meal, just makes you wanna vomit. :rofl:Click to expand...

i like that one...... :):)


----------



## clairebear

how can u be disgusted by something that is so natural xx


----------



## sam's mum

leedsforever said:


> You see that last comment???? How babies shouldnt be taking in a restaurant in the first place!!!!
> 
> MY GOD OUTRAGE :hissy: :hissy:

I just read that :hissy:

And their original comment:


> I find it rude and inconsiderate to breastfeed in public. Manners cost nothing. If someone has to breastfeed then finding somewhere out out of site is hardly an effort.
> 
> And breastfeeding in a restaurant? That's disgusting, it really is.

I'm actually disgusted that someone could be so rude about it. And they have the cheek to talk about manners?! :rofl: How about politely looking the other way (as I'm sure he would if a woman was wearing a low cut top too - how shocking!) 

Does he think breastfeeding reveals any more?! x


----------



## clairebear

how rude of him obvious hes not a father


----------



## nikky0907

It's ignorance.

People over here expect you to find a cave and breastfeed there.


----------



## clairebear

i can see why some women dont want to BF as others attitudes can be intimidating xx


----------



## ryder

Some of the states have really strange laws lol! 

Over here I dont think it is a big deal, you dont see alot of people out breastfeeding though. Occassionally, but I guess maybe people just either do it at home or in the family washrooms/nursing centers. 

I think some people are just uncomfortable seeing it because it is a private thing? Like I know when I see women sitting on a bench somewhere breastfeeding you kind of feel like your encroaching on some kind of private moment bettween the mother and her baby?

I think we are probably the most public mammal with breastfeeding also.

However, its a free country over here and if people feel like breastfeeding in public there isnt anything wrong with it.


----------



## brownhairedmom

ryder said:


> Some of the states have really strange laws lol!
> 
> Over here I dont think it is a big deal, you dont see alot of people out breastfeeding though. Occassionally, but I guess maybe people just either do it at home or in the family washrooms/nursing centers.
> 
> I think some people are just uncomfortable seeing it because it is a private thing? Like I know when I see women sitting on a bench somewhere breastfeeding you kind of feel like your encroaching on some kind of private moment bettween the mother and her baby?
> 
> I think we are probably the most public mammal with breastfeeding also.
> 
> However, its a free country over here and if people feel like breastfeeding in public there isnt anything wrong with it.

I was at a store the other day and a woman was just walking around shopping while feeding her baby. She was NOT being discreet about it at all, and although I am going to breastfeed myself, I was completely horrified by it. I mean, yes, by all means breast feed. And by all means, if you want to, sit on a bench and do it. Or wear a nursing shawl. But there's a difference when you're shopping for shoes with your boob out. 


I have some nursing shawls bought.


----------



## Linzi

rae05 said:


> ryder said:
> 
> 
> Some of the states have really strange laws lol!
> 
> Over here I dont think it is a big deal, you dont see alot of people out breastfeeding though. Occassionally, but I guess maybe people just either do it at home or in the family washrooms/nursing centers.
> 
> I think some people are just uncomfortable seeing it because it is a private thing? Like I know when I see women sitting on a bench somewhere breastfeeding you kind of feel like your encroaching on some kind of private moment bettween the mother and her baby?
> 
> I think we are probably the most public mammal with breastfeeding also.
> 
> However, its a free country over here and if people feel like breastfeeding in public there isnt anything wrong with it.
> 
> I was at a store the other day and a woman was just walking around shopping while feeding her baby. She was NOT being discreet about it at all, and although I am going to breastfeed myself, I was completely horrified by it. I mean, yes, by all means breast feed. And by all means, if you want to, sit on a bench and do it. Or wear a nursing shawl. But there's a difference when you're shopping for shoes with your boob out.
> 
> 
> I have some nursing shawls bought.Click to expand...

Well I personally wouldnt do it but I dont see why it would be a problem... its not like she's flashing people... shes feeding her baby.

In my opinion.

xxx


----------



## brownhairedmom

Linzi said:


> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ryder said:
> 
> 
> Some of the states have really strange laws lol!
> 
> Over here I dont think it is a big deal, you dont see alot of people out breastfeeding though. Occassionally, but I guess maybe people just either do it at home or in the family washrooms/nursing centers.
> 
> I think some people are just uncomfortable seeing it because it is a private thing? Like I know when I see women sitting on a bench somewhere breastfeeding you kind of feel like your encroaching on some kind of private moment bettween the mother and her baby?
> 
> I think we are probably the most public mammal with breastfeeding also.
> 
> However, its a free country over here and if people feel like breastfeeding in public there isnt anything wrong with it.
> 
> I was at a store the other day and a woman was just walking around shopping while feeding her baby. She was NOT being discreet about it at all, and although I am going to breastfeed myself, I was completely horrified by it. I mean, yes, by all means breast feed. And by all means, if you want to, sit on a bench and do it. Or wear a nursing shawl. But there's a difference when you're shopping for shoes with your boob out.
> 
> 
> I have some nursing shawls bought.Click to expand...
> 
> Well I personally wouldnt do it but I dont see why it would be a problem... its not like she's flashing people... shes feeding her baby.
> 
> In my opinion.
> 
> xxxClick to expand...

We live in a country (Canada) where unfortunately although breast feeding isn't frowned upon but it defintely isn't the norm. You don't see people around here very often feeding in public (actually thats the first time I'd actually seen it), so while there might not be anything wrong with it, it defintely surprised me to see her walking around a crowded store absolutely making no attempt to cover herself up. I'm actually not sure about the rules here where I am, but I would actually think that if she had done that in a resturant or if a police officer had seen her, she more than likely been asked to move to another place and do it.


----------



## Blah11

Just wondering, what do health professionals in America/Canada recommend? Well I assume they recommend breastfeeding but do they really try and persuade you and tell you the benefits etc etc?


----------



## brownhairedmom

I actually don't know hardly anyone who breast feeds. My cousins gf had her baby like 4-5 days ago and she's breast feeding but that is the only person I know. 

They have posters up and stuff, but its more of a "do it if you want to" thing. Here at least, thats how it is. My doctor just asked me what I wanted to do and I said breast feed and he was just like "oh okay"


----------



## Linzi

In the uk its very forced i think. When I had seth the mw didnt even ask how i was feeding him. she just sort of threw him at me and put it in his mouth... fortunately id always planneed on it but it did make me wonder how it made ff mummies feel.

xxx


----------



## clairebear

i was asked when i was admitted on to the ward during labour and it was written in my notes xxx


----------



## Neecee

rae05 said:


> I actually don't know hardly anyone who breast feeds. My cousins gf had her baby like 4-5 days ago and she's breast feeding but that is the only person I know.
> 
> They have posters up and stuff, but its more of a "do it if you want to" thing. Here at least, thats how it is. My doctor just asked me what I wanted to do and I said breast feed and he was just like "oh okay"


Do you guys have breastfeeding clinics or coaches there? We have clinics and classes that teach how to breastfeed. My mother is a Health Visitor and runs her own breastfeeding clinic, so I'll probably be getting my tips from her.


----------



## brownhairedmom

Neecee said:


> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> I actually don't know hardly anyone who breast feeds. My cousins gf had her baby like 4-5 days ago and she's breast feeding but that is the only person I know.
> 
> They have posters up and stuff, but its more of a "do it if you want to" thing. Here at least, thats how it is. My doctor just asked me what I wanted to do and I said breast feed and he was just like "oh okay"
> 
> 
> Do you guys have breastfeeding clinics or coaches there? We have clinics and classes that teach how to breastfeed. My mother is a Health Visitor and runs her own breastfeeding clinic, so I'll probably be getting my tips from her.Click to expand...

I've never heard of one, but I could be mistaken. This is NL I'm talking about though, not the rest of Canada. I'm sure there's breast feeding things in other provinces


----------



## Sarahkka

rae05 said:


> Neecee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> I actually don't know hardly anyone who breast feeds. My cousins gf had her baby like 4-5 days ago and she's breast feeding but that is the only person I know.
> 
> They have posters up and stuff, but its more of a "do it if you want to" thing. Here at least, thats how it is. My doctor just asked me what I wanted to do and I said breast feed and he was just like "oh okay"
> 
> 
> Do you guys have breastfeeding clinics or coaches there? We have clinics and classes that teach how to breastfeed. My mother is a Health Visitor and runs her own breastfeeding clinic, so I'll probably be getting my tips from her.Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard of one, but I could be mistaken. This is NL I'm talking about though, not the rest of Canada. I'm sure there's breast feeding things in other provincesClick to expand...

In Alberta and BC, I would say it is very much promoted and supported. We have lactation consultants, workshops, you name it.
Also, as I work at the most popular family spot in town (the Zoo!), I can vouch that breastfeeding in public is so common you hardly notice it. However, mums are very discreet. Baby and boob are always draped with some sort of covering. Walking around a store with a boob hanging out would probably raise a few eyebrows, but I don't think anyone would say anything.
I'm not sure if I even know of anyone who bottlefed instead of breast feeding. I don't think it's that common. Usually, it's only done if baby has had too much trouble latching on. That's my impression, anyway. And my Western Canada perspective!:)


----------



## brownhairedmom

Sarahkka said:


> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neecee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> I actually don't know hardly anyone who breast feeds. My cousins gf had her baby like 4-5 days ago and she's breast feeding but that is the only person I know.
> 
> They have posters up and stuff, but its more of a "do it if you want to" thing. Here at least, thats how it is. My doctor just asked me what I wanted to do and I said breast feed and he was just like "oh okay"
> 
> 
> Do you guys have breastfeeding clinics or coaches there? We have clinics and classes that teach how to breastfeed. My mother is a Health Visitor and runs her own breastfeeding clinic, so I'll probably be getting my tips from her.Click to expand...
> 
> I've never heard of one, but I could be mistaken. This is NL I'm talking about though, not the rest of Canada. I'm sure there's breast feeding things in other provincesClick to expand...
> 
> In Alberta and BC, I would say it is very much promoted and supported. We have lactation consultants, workshops, you name it.
> Also, as I work at the most popular family spot in town (the Zoo!), I can vouch that breastfeeding in public is so common you hardly notice it. However, mums are very discreet. Baby and boob are always draped with some sort of covering. Walking around a store with a boob hanging out would probably raise a few eyebrows, but I don't think anyone would say anything.
> I'm not sure if I even know of anyone who bottlefed instead of breast feeding. I don't think it's that common. Usually, it's only done if baby has had too much trouble latching on. That's my impression, anyway. And my Western Canada perspective!:)Click to expand...


Lucky you! But unfortunately it isn't just a sterotype that NL is backwards :dohh: we're stuck in the 70s still. (Michelle100 is either going to agree or kill me for saying that *hides*)


----------



## codegirl

I agree with Sarahka, it seems quite exceptable, almost expected to bf here in Alberta. More people I know bf then ff. When you do ff it usually because you had some difficulties, but even then, there are so many places to get help, the standard excuses don't seem to fly anymore.
On the other hand, I've never seen a woman with her "boob hanging out" while feeding either. I know I am horribly shy about my body and will ensure that I am covered while feeding, no matter where I am (except maybe at home, alone)


----------



## brownhairedmom

codegirl said:


> I agree with Sarahka, it seems quite exceptable, almost expected to bf here in Alberta. More people I know bf then ff. When you do ff it usually because you had some difficulties, but even then, there are so many places to get help, the standard excuses don't seem to fly anymore.
> On the other hand, I've never seen a woman with her "boob hanging out" while feeding either. I know I am horribly shy about my body and will ensure that I am covered while feeding, no matter where I am (except maybe at home, alone)

There's like a "healthy baby club" here that they have people to help you, but my friend had her baby in...March I do believe, and she couldn't breast feed cause she couldn't get the baby to latch on and there was nobody really willing to help her (nurses or the consultants). And I live in a city(there's only 2 here). I would assume that there is literally no help if you live in a smaller place. But I have literally not heard of an actual breast feeding clinic type thing.


----------



## Sarahkka

rae05 said:


> Lucky you! But unfortunately it isn't just a sterotype that NL is backwards :dohh: we're stuck in the 70s still. (Michelle100 is either going to agree or kill me for saying that *hides*)

Oh, you don't have a monopoly on backwardness - Alberta is the only province that doesn't cover midwifery under health care. A home birth with a midwife starts at $3500.
So I guess you have birthing choices if you're rich. Otherwise, enjoy the overcrowded labour and delivery wards, one of the continent's highest pre-term labour rates (apparently this is due to our altitude?), and a 25-30% C-section rate (also one of the highest in Canada).
We've made some progress though. Now that Ralph Klein has retired, we've stopped rounding midwives up, calling them witches, and burning them at the stake! The '70s?! We're stuck in the freakin' Middle Ages!
And this is from the province that brought you women's right to vote!


----------



## brownhairedmom

Sarahkka said:


> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky you! But unfortunately it isn't just a sterotype that NL is backwards :dohh: we're stuck in the 70s still. (Michelle100 is either going to agree or kill me for saying that *hides*)
> 
> Oh, you don't have a monopoly on backwardness - Alberta is the only province that doesn't cover midwifery under health care. A home birth with a midwife starts at $3500.
> So I guess you have birthing choices if you're rich. Otherwise, enjoy the overcrowded labour and delivery wards, one of the continent's highest pre-term labour rates (apparently this is due to our altitude?), and a 25-30% C-section rate (also one of the highest in Canada).
> We've made some progress though. Now that Ralph Klein has retired, we've stopped rounding midwives up, calling them witches, and burning them at the stake! The '70s?! We're stuck in the freakin' Middle Ages!
> And this is from the province that brought you women's right to vote!Click to expand...

Hahahaa...we have ONE practicing "midwife" and she's in St. John's. But she isn't allowed to do homebirths at all. So basically, she can birth your baby in the hospital IF theres an obgyn present.


----------



## Sarahkka

Ha!
The token midwife of Newfoundland!
And she's only allowed to practise under strict supervision!
ha! LOL


----------



## Wobbles

ryder said:


> toriaaaaTRASH said:
> 
> 
> This thread has actually just pissed me the f*ck off. Alright, breast feeding might not be for you but to say it's not natural is the most stupid thing I have ever read in my LIFE. What exactly were you taught is the definition of natural? I cannot for one second believe that when my little girl is on my boob looking up at me, that it's not natural and not the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> If you choose not to breast feed, that's your business, but it is natural, it is how it's supposed to be, and I'm quite offended.
> 
> Good grief, I believe both Nikky and I said that WE did not feel it was natural for US to breastfeed... It may be natural for you, but it is not natural for me.
> 
> No one said it wasn't a natural occurance for the human race to breastfeed.
> 
> So be pissed off all you want, but your totally blowing it out of context.Click to expand...

WOW

Toriaa I am shocked at your response tbh although I admit I have not read through all this thread some women aren't comfortable with it for THEM! Some women don't find it comes natural to THEM and its unfair to tell anyone it should although you understand that feeling regardless of changing your mind like most women do.



toriaaaaTRASH said:


> I think I'm changing my mind. I didn't want to atall but I said I would because I want my little girl to have the best start she can. Now, my mum informs me I was breast fed and my sister wasn't. Other than the odd cold my sister gets that I manage to avoid, we're really not any different. Reading about breast feeding, even the good things, just doesn't feel right to me. I feel like I'd be alot more comfortable with bottle feeding, and it'd be alot easier for me. I just realised how selfish this sounds...
> 
> ...:dohh:


----------



## Neecee

rae05 said:


> Sarahkka said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rae05 said:
> 
> 
> Lucky you! But unfortunately it isn't just a sterotype that NL is backwards :dohh: we're stuck in the 70s still. (Michelle100 is either going to agree or kill me for saying that *hides*)
> 
> Oh, you don't have a monopoly on backwardness - Alberta is the only province that doesn't cover midwifery under health care. A home birth with a midwife starts at $3500.
> So I guess you have birthing choices if you're rich. Otherwise, enjoy the overcrowded labour and delivery wards, one of the continent's highest pre-term labour rates (apparently this is due to our altitude?), and a 25-30% C-section rate (also one of the highest in Canada).
> We've made some progress though. Now that Ralph Klein has retired, we've stopped rounding midwives up, calling them witches, and burning them at the stake! The '70s?! We're stuck in the freakin' Middle Ages!
> And this is from the province that brought you women's right to vote!Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaa...we have ONE practicing "midwife" and she's in St. John's. But she isn't allowed to do homebirths at all. So basically, she can birth your baby in the hospital IF theres an obgyn present.Click to expand...

How do you all cope!!!! We have midwives all over the place! (well, not all over the place, but there's definately more than one in each borough!)

I have a midwife, but to be honest, I haven't felt the need to call her for anything as yet, as my mum was a midwife before she moved on to health visiting. Also, chances are you won't nescessarily get the same midwife all the way through to birth anyway, so at least if I have my mum, I know she'll be there from start to finish!


----------



## Sarahkka

Provinces like BC have really good midwifery choices.
Otherwise, you just hope that your maternity clinic is good.
And luckily, mine is.
I believe it was one of the first group clinics to open in Calgary. A group of women OBs who all shared a common philosophy on birth started a clinic that probably operates a lot like your midwife clinics. There's a group of them, you see all of them at your various appointments, whoever is on call when you go into labour attends your birth. And they are all awesome so far. Very friendly, down-to-earth, never make you feel rushed, give you lots of time to ask questions, etc. I've been very happy so far.
And I probably would have chosen this clinic even if midwives were covered under health care, as this is my first and I want the medical resources right there if something goes wrong. I know that home births are actually ranked as safer, but this is just where my comfort zone is.


----------



## codegirl

The Alberta Gov did announce this spring that they plan to start paying for midwives. We don't know when yet but I'm thinking in the new year we will see those changes come through.

Sarahka, I am also going to a clinic that the Dr.s all rotate through and will see me so that no matter who I end up delivering with (they take turns on call) I will be comfortable. They are Family Dr.s with an interests in OB, but if my status changes from "low risk" to "high risk" they also have OB/GYNs available.

I have NEVER gotten this level of care in my life. My primary dr in this clinic has called me personally 5 TIMES!!! She wants to make sure that I'm ok, that I'm getting the care that I needed and when I said that I still hadn't gotten into see the OB I had originally asked to see, or that I didn't even have an appointment yet (and I'm 17 weeks) she said that I had to come and see her so at least I have some prenatal care.

My Brother and wife have oped for a midwife and doula home birth and then are looking at spending ~4k for this option. OUCH!!!


----------



## Sarahkka

codegirl said:


> The Alberta Gov did announce this spring that they plan to start paying for midwives. We don't know when yet but I'm thinking in the new year we will see those changes come through.
> 
> Sarahka, I am also going to a clinic that the Dr.s all rotate through and will see me so that no matter who I end up delivering with (they take turns on call) I will be comfortable. They are Family Dr.s with an interests in OB, but if my status changes from "low risk" to "high risk" they also have OB/GYNs available.
> 
> I have NEVER gotten this level of care in my life. My primary dr in this clinic has called me personally 5 TIMES!!! She wants to make sure that I'm ok, that I'm getting the care that I needed and when I said that I still hadn't gotten into see the OB I had originally asked to see, or that I didn't even have an appointment yet (and I'm 17 weeks) she said that I had to come and see her so at least I have some prenatal care.
> 
> My Brother and wife have oped for a midwife and doula home birth and then are looking at spending ~4k for this option. OUCH!!!

Yay!
Good to hear that there are lots of positive stories out there amidst all the concern over the state of our provincial health care. Knowing how stretched all these doctors must be just impresses me more when I see how high they keep their standards.
Man, we have gone waaaayy off thread topic, haven't we? :)


----------



## Blah11

Just to add guys, midwives in the UK are who looks after you during the pregnancy, during the birth, and after. They deliver the baby without the help of a doctor. Consultants aren't used very often unless there's complications. I know its completely different in the states.


----------



## codegirl

Sarahkka said:


> Yay!
> Good to hear that there are lots of positive stories out there amidst all the concern over the state of our provincial health care. Knowing how stretched all these doctors must be just impresses me more when I see how high they keep their standards.
> Man, we have gone waaaayy off thread topic, haven't we? :)

I was just about to say that I think this is the worst I have every highjacked a thread.:dohh: :blush:

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion on pump vs breast!


----------



## ricschick

Blah11 said:


> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> idk i still think its selfish when people don't even try to breastfeed.
> 
> :shock:
> People have their reasons,every and each one.Reasons that they shouldn't be judged for!
> 
> I said it once before,we ALL here have nothing but our children's best interest at heart and if not breastfeeding is something that endangers our kids we sure as hell wouldn't be considering it.
> 
> Don't you think it's a _tad_ insulting that you are calling people on this board selfish without even knowing their circumstances?
> Some of them actually have nipple phobias,it's an actual phobia.
> 
> A personal choice,there's no right or wrong answer to that question.Click to expand...
> 
> Well everyone knows the benefits for the baby, and the mum too. Health professionals reccommend breastfeeding for a reason. I think it's very selfish not to even try it just b/c you THINK you MIGHT feel uncomfortable. It's different if the mother tries it for a few weeks and decides she *HATES *it. But people who dismiss it without even giving it a go kind of angers me a little :|
> I won't apologise for my opinion but I'm sorry if you were massively offended by it.Click to expand...

i think your a very rude person and have no right in judging anybody for their choices! everyone has their own reasons for it.:hissy:


----------



## ricschick

Blah11 said:


> I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.

why should she try something which she knows that she is not going to be comfortable with? why put herself through an extra week of discomfort? a happy mum = a happy baby.


----------



## Blah11

ricschick said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.
> 
> why should she try something which she knows that she is not going to be comfortable with? why put herself through an extra week of discomfort? a happy mum = a happy baby.Click to expand...

Uh b/c it's best for not only herself but her baby too. I plan on being selfless in regards to my child, and breastfeeding is no different. Even if I feel uncomfortable at first I'll stick with it in hopes that I'll soon get used to it.


----------



## PeanutBean

leedsforever said:


> https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76608&st=25&gopid=1387739&#entry1387739
> 
> Im "debating" with some other special police officers!!! Im getting mad!!! If you read maybe give me some pointers to make to these idiots!!

Just catching up and I actually have a dropped jaw at this forum! Do you think that jerk was a guy? I suspect so. Whatever she might think about breastfeeding personally I can't imagine any woman talking that way about it. I can just picture that guy in his swanky restaurant. I bet he goes home after his 2 bottles of expensive red wine and wanks alone to some porn. No wonder he feels uncomfortable with women feeding in public, no wonder he is disgusted, women are sexual objects to him especially their breasts.

Are these all officers then? I am stunned that the people who are supposed to be protecting us are walking around with such nonsensical ideas. I hope he leaves them at home when he goes to work...

I don't see anything wrong with a baby being fed in public, we don't hide our children away in restaurants when they're eating. Though I'd not be confident enough to flash my boobs in the process I would have no problem with another woman doing so. She is feeding her child. There is nothing indecent about that. This just totally represents how sexualised women are. I'm so angry right now!!!!! :hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy:

(Sorry Ryder, I know this has deviated from your thread - maybe you should change the title to "Multiple rants linked to breastfeeding! lol)


----------



## leedsforever

lol I started another thread about the forum to rant about it... but hey!!

He was obviously a man!!! I really could of got into a full blown arguement especially when he said "we obviously visit different restaurants"!!! Like looking down at me or something! But I was already being accused of being OTT and stressed!!!

They are indeed all special pcs.... like me.... so they do the job as a volunteer!! I think its disgusting too!! :hissy:


----------



## PeanutBean

leedsforever said:


> lol I started another thread about the forum to rant about it... but hey!!
> 
> He was obviously a man!!! I really could of got into a full blown arguement especially when he said "we obviously visit different restaurants"!!! Like looking down at me or something! But I was already being accused of being OTT and stressed!!!
> 
> They are indeed all special pcs.... like me.... so they do the job as a volunteer!! I think its disgusting too!! :hissy:

Where's the thread (I'm still catching up today)? I'll post again, I'm still so angry about it! :hissy:


----------



## Wobbles

Blah11 said:


> ricschick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.
> 
> why should she try something which she knows that she is not going to be comfortable with? why put herself through an extra week of discomfort? a happy mum = a happy baby.Click to expand...
> 
> Uh b/c it's best for not only herself but her baby too. I plan on being selfless in regards to my child, and breastfeeding is no different. Even if I feel uncomfortable at first I'll stick with it in hopes that I'll soon get used to it.Click to expand...

I'm not going to try BF'ing (could change mind) I don't consider myself to be selfish & I don't take to kindly to being informed even if it was indirectly that I am - I hope your child doesn't grow up ignorant to other peoples right to choice as you are.

My baby is loved more than I have ever loved anyone, she is fed, clean & cared for - theres nothing she is deprived of & my second baby will be the same.

You really don't have the right to come on here & call any mother who has not breastfed or any mum to be who does not plan on breastfeeding selfish! Like one of your other posts suggested you obviously think you have the right to come on here & be ignorant to other peoples feeling & life choices (in short) I'm not going to tolerate it much more from you on this subject.

You want to breastfeed ...good for you, well done! Go & do that then and stop throwing nasty comments around.


----------



## leedsforever

PeanutBean said:


> leedsforever said:
> 
> 
> lol I started another thread about the forum to rant about it... but hey!!
> 
> He was obviously a man!!! I really could of got into a full blown arguement especially when he said "we obviously visit different restaurants"!!! Like looking down at me or something! But I was already being accused of being OTT and stressed!!!
> 
> They are indeed all special pcs.... like me.... so they do the job as a volunteer!! I think its disgusting too!! :hissy:
> 
> Where's the thread (I'm still catching up today)? I'll post again, I'm still so angry about it! :hissy:Click to expand...

https://www.babyandbump.com/breastfeeding/45492-opinions.html


----------



## leeanne

Blah11 said:


> ricschick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I said it was selfish TO NOT TRY and breastfeed. Even if she did it for a week and decided against it, fine. Atleast she tried.
> 
> why should she try something which she knows that she is not going to be comfortable with? why put herself through an extra week of discomfort? a happy mum = a happy baby.Click to expand...
> 
> Uh b/c it's best for not only herself but her baby too. I plan on being selfless in regards to my child, and breastfeeding is no different. Even if I feel uncomfortable at first I'll stick with it in hopes that I'll soon get used to it.Click to expand...

I'd like to know how you could possibly say that one is best for one person. You don't know someone's circumstances, how they feel, etc. 

You are a first time mom right?

Let me tell you, breastfeeding, although yeah, good for baby, has it's disadvantages too. What if you only have enough milk to feed your baby but cannot express any extra? I've been there with my first child. So, what happens is that instead of having daddy be able to bond and feed the baby or anyone else, you are the only person who can feed that baby. Meaning, that baby needs to be in your care at all times.

Do you know how hard it is to wean a baby off of breastfeeding to bottle feeding? Not easy at times. With my first, it took me over a month for her to finally take a bottle and even then, when she wanted nap time, she turned to my breast as that was all that would soothe her.

What about for those that absolutely need to return to work right away? Not every country has a lengthy maternity leave. USA actually has a very short maternity leave, or it used to a number of years ago when it was only 6 weeks. Isn't it better to have your baby on the bottle and be ready to have someone take care of that child then to stress the baby out and yourself out a few weeks prior to going back to work?

Hmm, I've breastfed all my babies too and here's another thing. They get the flu, they get colds, etc. They get sick too just like babies who are bottle fed.

Everyone has a choice and just because it's the good choice for you, doesn't mean it is for anyone else. Don't force your opinion on people who chose differently. Don't belittle them for it.

The way I see it, as long as that baby is fed, loved and taken care of wonderfully, who cares what choice is made for feeding? God, there is so many other things to be opinionated about in terms of neglect of babies and children. Now that is a different story.


----------



## Tasha

Wow this has taken me ages to read so many different subjects.

The first most important is too answer Ryder (I think thats who started this thread sorry if wrong it seems so long a go I read your post lol). I personally started expressing after six days, I was too doing the booby business but wanted to make sure my supply was huge so just freezed it as I didnt want nipple bottle confusion. My mw was amazed even though I was feeding Kaysie and expressing I was getting 3-4 0zs in thirty mins. Thats quite a lot that early on. Within a week Kaysie was just having expressed milk, and it was fine for us we got plenty, didnt hurt etc. I did have a manual pump at first add for me was a nightmare such hard work. Brought the Advent one and that was fantastic.

Breast feeding in public IMO is good, and am actually tired of people saying feed them in the changing room, would they eat there dinner in the toilet, no? Then why expect babies too? (BTW thats not aimed at anything anyone has said but rather what I have heard in general life).

As for the girls in Canada (or some of the provinces) OMG!!! I have learnt such a lot from this thread, I really had no idea things were like this.
I live in London and there are hundreds of mw's (although still not enough). I can honestly say in four pregnancies I have NEVER seen a mw for more than ONE appointment.


----------



## Blah11

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish, end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.

+ I didn't say anything about your babys being deprived or uncared for. I never once and would never say any of you were bad mothers because you chose to use formula... or for any other reason unless you were putting your kid in danger.

I am a first time mother but I don't really see what the difference makes. If I for some reason can't breastfeed or express then I'll have to use formula won't I? Atleast I would have tried. I plan on expressing everyday so my OH can do the midnight feed (atleast when he's on paternity leave, and after if he still wants to feed him/her).

Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk. + yes, I obviously know all babys get sick at some point, I'm not stupid. However, there is no point in denying that BF babys are sick LESS often, b/c the stats speak for themselves.. + before anyone jumps in and says 'my bottle fed baby hasnt been sick once' I'm talking about the average baby; there's always an exception to the rule.


----------



## Blah11

My friend had a premie so couldn't breastfeed and she told me today that she had to express her milk for the first week or so using a tiny syringe and it took AGES. So don't expect it to come out like a cow :|


----------



## danni2609

I have decided to try and breastfeed this time wasnt going to but wanted to with my first just didnt get a chance. I am 50/50 on this one and feel whatever is right for u go for it but maybe we shouldnt have threads like this anymore as its causing so much s**t!


----------



## leeanne

> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish, end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.

Way I see it, you are selfish to even suggest that people who don't breastfeed are selfsih.



> + I didn't say anything about your babys being deprived or uncared for. I never once and would never say any of you were bad mothers because you chose to use formula... or for any other reason unless you were putting your kid in danger.

Calling someone selfish for not breastfeeding is in fact putting down a mother.



> I am a first time mother but I don't really see what the difference makes.

Damn well does make a difference. I've had two babies now and will soon have my third. Until you actually experience things the way I or someone else has once your baby comes, you can make all these wonderful plans of breastfeeding and expressing but you don't know how it will all turn out. I was telling you my experience and all that I said was true and it is tough. I gave you the disadvantages - take them or leave them.



> Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk.

I also gave you other examples of how that may not be a right thing to do, if someone had to go back to work, to avoid stressing out your own baby, etc. You obviously didn't read in full.


----------



## Blah11

leeanne said:


> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish, end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.
> 
> Way I see it, you are selfish to even suggest that people who don't breastfeed are selfsih.
> 
> 
> 
> + I didn't say anything about your babys being deprived or uncared for. I never once and would never say any of you were bad mothers because you chose to use formula... or for any other reason unless you were putting your kid in danger.Click to expand...
> 
> Calling someone selfish for not breastfeeding is in fact putting down a mother.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a first time mother but I don't really see what the difference makes.Click to expand...
> 
> Damn well does make a difference. I've had two babies now and will soon have my third. Until you actually experience things the way I or someone else has once your baby comes, you can make all these wonderful plans of breastfeeding and expressing but you don't know how it will all turn out. I was telling you my experience and all that I said was true and it is tough. I gave you the disadvantages - take them or leave them.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk.Click to expand...
> 
> I also gave you other examples of how that may not be a right thing to do, if someone had to go back to work, to avoid stressing out your own baby, etc. You obviously didn't read in full.Click to expand...

Why would that stress the baby out anymore?

+ so what are you saying? i should have less of an opinion on parenting b/c I'm not a mother yet? + yes, I do have plans, I don't expect BFing to be easy, I'm not deluded or naive but millions of women do it. and no, I don't know how it will all turn out but I am going to TRY. That's what I've been saying all along.

+ being selfish in regards to breastfeeding doesn't make you a bad mother or mean that your kid is deprived.


----------



## Wobbles

Blah11 said:


> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. *I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish,* end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.

*Takes admin hat off now coz I'm getting pissed off*

Explain to me how it is selfish?

Is the mothers feelings not important?

Screw you, yes they are and you have no right under any circumstances to call women who don't feel comfortable selfish. I felt uncomfortable with it (although did try in the hospital) and I have my reasons that may sound silly for some unless they can relate yet I refuse to explain myself to likes of arrogant bitchy stuck up people like you.

You have no right to make other womens choices for them like your trying to your going to be a typical ram down your throat YOUR WAYS type of person ignorant to all but ones self.

Cheeky girl!


----------



## leeanne

Blah11 said:


> leeanne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish, end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.
> 
> Way I see it, you are selfish to even suggest that people who don't breastfeed are selfsih.
> 
> 
> 
> + I didn't say anything about your babys being deprived or uncared for. I never once and would never say any of you were bad mothers because you chose to use formula... or for any other reason unless you were putting your kid in danger.Click to expand...
> 
> Calling someone selfish for not breastfeeding is in fact putting down a mother.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a first time mother but I don't really see what the difference makes.Click to expand...
> 
> Damn well does make a difference. I've had two babies now and will soon have my third. Until you actually experience things the way I or someone else has once your baby comes, you can make all these wonderful plans of breastfeeding and expressing but you don't know how it will all turn out. I was telling you my experience and all that I said was true and it is tough. I gave you the disadvantages - take them or leave them.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk.Click to expand...
> 
> I also gave you other examples of how that may not be a right thing to do, if someone had to go back to work, to avoid stressing out your own baby, etc. You obviously didn't read in full.Click to expand...
> 
> Why would that stress the baby out anymore?
> 
> + so what are you saying? i should have less of an opinion on parenting b/c I'm not a mother yet? + yes, I do have plans, I don't expect BFing to be easy, I'm not deluded or naive but millions of women do it. and no, I don't know how it will all turn out but I am going to TRY. That's what I've been saying all along.
> 
> + being selfish in regards to breastfeeding doesn't make you a bad mother or mean that your kid is deprived.Click to expand...

I'm done! You obviously are reading things the way you want to. No use even debating it anymore as you seem to be very one sided.


----------



## Tasha

Wobbles said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. *I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish,* end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.
> 
> *Takes admin hat off now coz I'm getting pissed off*
> 
> Explain to me how it is selfish?
> 
> Is the mothers feelings not important?
> 
> Screw you, yes they are and you have no right under any circumstances to call women who don't feel comfortable selfish. I felt uncomfortable with it (although did try in the hospital) and I have my reasons that may sound silly for some unless they can relate yet I refuse to explain myself to likes of arrogant bitchy stuck up people like you.
> 
> You have no right to make other womens choices for them like your trying to your going to be a typical ram down your throat YOUR WAYS type of person ignorant to all but ones self.
> 
> Cheeky girl!Click to expand...

I am sorry Wobbles and others are getting upset and feeling judge hugs all round I think (((( )))) :hugs:


----------



## Wobbles

I know people are upset by such comments which makes it worse. I have no opinion on a woman who breastfeeds, I'm comfortable with a woman breastfeeding in public why do I get judged (& others of course) for not taking this option - in fact other than child abuse & neglect I don't have many opinions on anyones parenting decisions & I don't believe anyone else should either.

Starting to give cooling periods - I'm gonna take one myself from this thread.

x


----------



## Tasha

Wobbles said:


> I know people are upset by such comments which makes it worse. I have no opinion on a woman who breastfeeds, I'm comfortable with a woman breastfeeding in public why do I get judged (& others of course) for not taking this option - in fact other than child abuse & neglect I don't have many opinions on anyones parenting decisions & I don't believe anyone else should either.
> 
> Starting to give cooling periods - I'm gonna take one myself from this thread.
> 
> x

Agreed its not of my business what others choices are, as long as they are not harming there child. Hope the cooling down period helps you (( ))


----------



## Chellebelle

In answer to the original question - I don't know which one is more painful because I haven't tried either yet :) so in all fairness - as I haven't even tried it I shouldn't even be commenting on this thread (as it is aimed at people who have tried it).

I am going to _attempt_ breastfeeding but I have no idea how I will feel when he is born... I might find the whole idea of breastfeeding absolutely terrifying when LO comes along - in which case, I wont do it, so I cannot comment on those who don't attempt it - I don't believe in judging others on things I have never even tried myself - each to their own. 

I know plenty of people who were bottle fed as babies and they are fit and healthy - as someone earlier said - in my opinion it's more important for the mum to be happy. 

Again - back to the original Q, I bet when they get their little teeth coming through pumping is easier lol.


----------



## ricschick

Neecee said:


> ryder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nikky0907 said:
> 
> 
> I am done and finished explaining myself or justifying my choices.
> 
> :)
> 
> Yep... me too... And quite frankly, it no ones damn business what choice we make, so never let yourself feel bad about it.
> 
> :hugs:Click to expand...
> 
> This is a discussion forum. People WILL ask questions long after you've finished "justifying" yourselves and if you don't want it to be anyone's business, don't bring it up!:winkwink:
> 
> If you _can't_ breastfeed for whatever reason, then so be it, but I think other mums and mums-to-be find it hard to understand why someone just _wouldn't_ want to give their baby the best start in life. And it's not just for baby, it's beneficial for the mother too.Click to expand...

THATS BECAUSE THEY DONT FEEL THE WAY WE DO SO YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND!


----------



## ryder

Blah11 said:


> Just wondering, what do health professionals in America/Canada recommend? Well I assume they recommend breastfeeding but do they really try and persuade you and tell you the benefits etc etc?

No, most Canadian healthcare professionals DO NOT FORCE or guilt trip women into doing something they are not comfortable with.

Canada is a freechoice type of place, and it is always promoted as such. That goes for breastfeeding, as i've explained in earlier posts, our formulas are extremely developed, and while they are not 100% the same as breastmilk, they are very similiar and are developed to be easily digested by infants.

Of course the doctors explain the benefits of breastfeeding, but in reality there are not very many extreme differences to point out. 

I think perhaps the high numbers of adoptions in Canada/US may have something to do with the push for such good formulas etc. Because I know both countries do have high rates of adoptions and there is a definate need for proper nutrition for all the newborns. 

We also have free choice in the hospitals as to our complete birthplan, and many of the hospitals offer the choice of birthing pools etc also.


----------



## ricschick

toriaaaaTRASH said:


> This thread has actually just pissed me the f*ck off. Alright, breast feeding might not be for you but to say it's not natural is the most stupid thing I have ever read in my LIFE. What exactly were you taught is the definition of natural? I cannot for one second believe that when my little girl is on my boob looking up at me, that it's not natural and not the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> If you choose not to breast feed, that's your business, but it is natural, it is how it's supposed to be, and I'm quite offended.

SHE DIDNT SAY THAT IT WASNT NATURAL SHE SIMPLY SAID THAT IT DOESNT FEEL NATURAL TO SOME WOMEN THERES A DIFFERENCE.


----------



## polo_princess

Chellebelle said:


> Again - back to the original Q, I bet when they get their little teeth coming through pumping is easier lol.

I agree :rofl:

I will not be BF through choice of which i wont go into ... but in my situation i feel it would be overall better for both my own and my babies health


----------



## Tasha

ryder said:


> For those of you who have breast fed and pumped milk... which did you find more painful? Honestly.
> 
> I really do not wish to breastfeed, but I think pumping will be the way I go, so that the baby at least has breastmilk, for the first few months anyways, I will likely use formula too.

OMG!! Just re read the question and realised that I didn even answer the question just waffled on about crap lol

Errr for me personally neither hurt, with kaysie the first 30 seconds stung a bit when latching on (Matt always knew when she had latched on properly cos the look on my face lol), and pumping didnt hurt at all. I think it is different for each woman, have friends who booby feeding was just impossible cos it hurt them so much, but also have friends that it was pumping that did that.


----------



## Linzi

Blah11 said:


> Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk. + yes, I obviously know all babys get sick at some point, I'm not stupid. However, there is no point in denying that BF babys are sick LESS often, b/c the stats speak for themselves.. + before anyone jumps in and says 'my bottle fed baby hasnt been sick once' I'm talking about the average baby; there's always an exception to the rule.

my baby is breastfed and has been from the start. hes had a couple of infectons, a cold and a virus and he's only 8 wks old. we're looking after him properly, he is not neglected, so i think that statement is rubbish. and im no exception from the rule, i know a few babies who are the same.

i have to say that i wonder why you have such strong feelings about breastfeeding when you have never tried it before? because until you know or have tried i dont think its fair to ram your opinion on other people. its totally different to what you probably think and leeanne made some very good points earlier in the thread. its not all good!

and im not being horrible to you for the sake of it because there has been some things ive agreed with you on so dont take offence.

xxx


----------



## mBLACK

Both of them are uncomfortable at first. If the baby is latched on properly it doesn't hurt at all (maybe for the first few sucks), but pumping is uncomfortable the entire way through, your skin just kind of gets used to it I guess.


----------



## oOKayOo

Blah11 said:


> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish, end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.
> 
> + I didn't say anything about your babys being deprived or uncared for. I never once and would never say any of you were bad mothers because you chose to use formula... or for any other reason unless you were putting your kid in danger.
> 
> I am a first time mother but I don't really see what the difference makes. If I for some reason can't breastfeed or express then I'll have to use formula won't I? Atleast I would have tried. I plan on expressing everyday so my OH can do the midnight feed (atleast when he's on paternity leave, and after if he still wants to feed him/her).
> 
> Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk. + yes, I obviously know all babys get sick at some point, I'm not stupid. *However, there is no point in denying that BF babys are sick LESS often*, b/c the stats speak for themselves.. + before anyone jumps in and says 'my bottle fed baby hasnt been sick once' I'm talking about the average baby; there's always an exception to the rule.

Funny you say this as we had a questionnaire about breastfed and bottle fed .. guess what breast fed babies came out to be sick more then bottle fed. ( this is in my playgroup) Yes breast is best in the nutrients and what not but it doesnt stop a child catching the flu or being sick. This is my opioion only as i bottle feed and my kids never get sick but all my breast fed mums kids get sick all the time :shrug: 
Anyway im going from the questionnaire and to point out that its not always the case with protecting babies from sickness.


----------



## smartie

I have been expressing over 95% of feeds for my daughter since she was 4 weeks old, she is now 14 weeks. I have both a manual and electric pump and find myself using the manual one the majority of the time. It takes me less than half an hour to pump an 7oz feed.


----------



## sam's mum

Tasha said:


> OMG!! Just re read the question and realised that I didn even answer the question just waffled on about crap lol

:rofl:


----------



## sam's mum

Blah11 said:


> leeanne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I don't care what you do. Do what you want. I find people who don't want to try to breastfeed b/c they feel uncomfortable selfish, end of. I'm not going to take it back or say sorry b/c I'm not. It's how I feel and that's that.
> 
> Way I see it, you are selfish to even suggest that people who don't breastfeed are selfsih.
> 
> 
> 
> + I didn't say anything about your babys being deprived or uncared for. I never once and would never say any of you were bad mothers because you chose to use formula... or for any other reason unless you were putting your kid in danger.Click to expand...
> 
> Calling someone selfish for not breastfeeding is in fact putting down a mother.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a first time mother but I don't really see what the difference makes.Click to expand...
> 
> Damn well does make a difference. I've had two babies now and will soon have my third. Until you actually experience things the way I or someone else has once your baby comes, you can make all these wonderful plans of breastfeeding and expressing but you don't know how it will all turn out. I was telling you my experience and all that I said was true and it is tough. I gave you the disadvantages - take them or leave them.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think that even if it's only for 6 weeks, you should still feed the baby breastmilk.Click to expand...
> 
> I also gave you other examples of how that may not be a right thing to do, if someone had to go back to work, to avoid stressing out your own baby, etc. You obviously didn't read in full.Click to expand...
> 
> Why would that stress the baby out anymore?Click to expand...

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate but just wanted to say one thing (or possibly a few things)...I think that however a baby is fed, one of the most important things in the first few weeks is the relationship that forms between a baby and its mother/parents. The baby has to learn to trust its mother and feel comfortable with her, and the more relaxed she is, the easier that will be. If she is uncomfortable with the idea of breastfeeding but feels she has to feed for the first few weeks to 'give the baby the best start', she will be stressed at a time when she should be bonding with her child (and feeding can be pretty much constant at first). 

The 'best start' for a child involves so much more than just nutrition, and I think you have to consider most than just the content of the food a baby is being given when you talk about selflessly doing what is best for them.


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## brownhairedmom

Ugh I can't believe this is still going on.

You simply just cannot come out and call someone selfish because they choose to bottlefeed. Its rude, inconsiderate, condesending and just down right bitchy. As far as I know, the majority of us here live in countries where we are allowed to have our own opinions and make our own decisions WITHOUT being degraded for them. 

This fourm used be an incredibly friendly place where we could all come and express our opinions, and while we didn't all agree with one another, nobody came out and said anything downright mean to anyone. I have no idea what happened with this thread, or who figured they had special permission to talk like shit to other posters because they had a difference in opinion.


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## Sarah88

I think there are many pro's and cons of both bf and ff, I personally and going to bf; that is becausemy mother is a lactation consultant and I will have her full support 24/7. And I have noticed that when the discussion on publics view on bf women in public areas was on, noone put in for Aus. So i'd just like to mention that where I am (can't speak for other cities/ states) bf is very much the norm. Whilst you won't see a lady on every bench bf, you can often see them feeding in the food courts whilst they are eating (discretely of course), but we also have mothers rooms where you can bf, take your child to toilet and heat up formula for bottles in there too. 

I am very pro-bfing, but I understand that many women aren't able to or, as someone said (sorry read it a while ago!), some women need to go back to work sooner rather than later. Trying to ram my opinions of bfing on them isn't going to change their mind, it's only going to create big arguments. 

I have noticed that many of the ladies are made to feel extradited if they bf in public, I sympathise with you! And if I were in a place like that then I would probably ff as well, otherwise you'd either never go out or you'd constantly be worried that you'll have nowhere to hide and feed your child. This isn't an attack on those countries either so pls don't take it as one.

I think we all want whats best for our child, as we wouldn't be on this forum in the first place. So if it's going to make the mother a happier and more confident person by chosing to ff straight off, then so be it. IMO I would be inclined to try and express the colustrum in the first few days though. 

And as a downfall of bfing, I have to be the one who feeds my child all the time. And whilst i'm not complaining, i'm sure there are times when i'll want my OH to take her so I can pinch a few moments of me time, but if she's hungry, that can't happen.


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## Carley

Blah11 said:


> My friend had a premie so couldn't breastfeed and she told me today that she had to express her milk for the first week or so using a tiny syringe and it took AGES. So don't expect it to come out like a cow :|

Pumping for a premature baby is a lot of hard work, people think it is easy...they have no wrong they are. Especially if you can not hold them.


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## Carley

This thread is pissing me off too much...


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## leeanne

The two threads together made me exhausted. :rofl:


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## Sarah88

Have to agree with you there Leeanne!


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## brownhairedmom

leeanne said:


> The two threads together made me exhausted. :rofl:

My brain hurts.


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## Carley

leeanne said:


> The two threads together made me exhausted. :rofl:

I agree!!!


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## oOKayOo

I agree to i have stayed well out of it after i gave my first comments , i have a mouth on me and im not afraid to use it but this thread and tested me and im going to not say another thing! :smug: if i did i wont stop .. right now breattthh.


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## clairebear

woooooo this thread got heated over night x


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## Tasha

sam's mum said:


> Tasha said:
> 
> 
> OMG!! Just re read the question and realised that I didn even answer the question just waffled on about crap lol
> 
> :rofl:Click to expand...

Lol tbh couldnt even remember the question by the time I got to answering.


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