# 5 yr old and the alphabet



## lau86

My son still hasn't learnt his alphabet and just turned 5 a few weeks ago. He used to know it around the age of 2 as we had an alphabet puzzle he loved to do. But as he got older and wasn't interested I stopped doing it with him. He knows a fair few of the letters but things like m and n, g and q get mixed up. Should I be pushing this with him? He's only just started to bring a reading book home and it's a picture book. We have things like flash cards, 2 alphabet puzzles and alphabet lotto we could do with him but I suspect he would feel it is a chore (as do I tbh but I would do it if necessary). I also think he gets bored doing tasks and doesn't try so then tells us the wrong answer. He may know more than he lets on.
Eta he has only just started school so has only done a few weeks of school


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## Button#

I would try and sneak it in in a way that would get him interested. My son is a car fanatic so we used to spot letters on car number plates.


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## SarahBear

I would NOT force him to do any alphabet learning. You want to keep reading fun; not push it on him and turn it into something to avoid. He'll learn it in school and the fact that he's learned it before means that he's perfectly capable of picking it up again when it's relevant to him. You could, however, find fun ways to encourage interest. For example, does he enjoy card games? If so, get an alphabet go-fish or matching game. Learning games (both on and off the computer) and videos are also helpful for keeping things fun. Violet enjoyed the Leapfrog Letter Factory and learned a lot of letter sounds that way. Or maybe find some I Spy type games that use letters. Keep it fun and light and don't force it. He'll get there! It's also perfectly normal to switch and mix-up letters at this age.


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## lau86

Thanks, we have received very little info from the school about where he should be up to. I wouldn't be surprised if this type of thing wasn't his strong point though


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## george83

Children these days aren't usually taught the alphabet at school anymore until slightly older. Most schools will teach the sounds/phonics and then introduce the alphabet as letter names much later. I teach year 2 and in previous years that's been the first time some children have been actively taught it. 

I agree with pp that anything out of school at that age should be fun, my ds1 was so tired when he started he couldn't cope with much more than getting through the day


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## lau86

So should I just stop meddling then?! i just don't get how he can do phonics if he doesn't know the letters?


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## george83

They learn the sound the letter makes as opposed to knowing what the name is called so they would initially refer to it by just its sound and not the name. He's also your son so if you want to teach the alphabet then that's what you choose, nobody can say what you can and can't do.


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## SarahBear

I wouldn't say "stop meddling," but I'd say to just try to not worry :)


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## lau86

george83 said:


> They learn the sound the letter makes as opposed to knowing what the name is called so they would initially refer to it by just its sound and not the name. He's also your son so if you want to teach the alphabet then that's what you choose, nobody can say what you can and can't do.

Yes that's what I meant, I was trying to teach him the phonetic sound of each letter


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## SarahBear

So this is a bit off topic, but it seems like a bad idea to not teach both the sound and the name. For one, the letters don't always make the same sound and for another, it seems like it would be confusing later. And having a name and a sound really isn't that confusing. Think about animals. Kids learn early on that animals have both a name and a sound. Seems letters should be treated the same. I started talking about letters with both the name and sound from very early on and it was never confusing for my daughter who is now nearly 4 and knows many letter names and letter sounds (I don't exactly quiz her so I don't know how many she knows). And she also enjoys spelling things with me (I sound it out phoneme by phoneme and she says the letter that goes with each phoneme) and I'll make it a point to point out that sometimes letters say different sounds and sometimes you can't hear them at all.


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## george83

lau86 said:


> george83 said:
> 
> 
> They learn the sound the letter makes as opposed to knowing what the name is called so they would initially refer to it by just its sound and not the name. He's also your son so if you want to teach the alphabet then that's what you choose, nobody can say what you can and can't do.
> 
> Yes that's what I meant, I was trying to teach him the phonetic sound of each letterClick to expand...

I still wouldn't worry about teaching him unless you are desperately worried, my son didn't know any sounds when he started school and reads fairly well just a year later. Your Lo maybstart coming home with sounds to practise in the near future which will give you something to focus on. Again though he's still your son so if you want to teach him them there's nothing to stop you


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## Lalaloopsie

I work in eyfs and yes we do work on sounds but its part of the 40-60 month framework that a child should:

Link sounds to letters, naming and sounding the letters of the alphabet.

(so throughout reception they are aiming to achieve this)

Google search: eyfs framework, it's in the writing section.

we start the alphabet chant in nursery and this carries on in reception so new starters can pick it up to.

If you want to start with your lo then songs like 
https://youtu.be/BELlZKpi1Zs
are a good start as it uses both letter names and sounds x



george83 said:


> Children these days aren't usually taught the alphabet at school anymore until slightly older. Most schools will teach the sounds/phonics and then introduce the alphabet as letter names much later. I teach year 2 and in previous years that's been the first time some children have been actively taught it.
> 
> I agree with pp that anything out of school at that age should be fun, my ds1 was so tired when he started he couldn't cope with much more than getting through the day


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## lau86

Thanks all, I should probably just trust what he's doing in school but it's so hard to get such little info. He is happy doing his reading book so I don't want to push it


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## RaspberryK

I'd also be careful with how you teach it if you decide to as they use "soft sounds" such as mmm, nnn, not muh, nuh, - really not sure that's overly clear lol. 
They also teach them in a specific order in ds school satp and blending them together is first, they have added more in as his confidence has increased. X


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## george83

Most schools also offer a phonics workshop for new parents so if your school doesn't I wouldn't feel bad going in and asking about their policies and what they teach/when they teach it


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## lau86

They did a phonics meeting but it wasn't really about phonics!


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## CaptainMummy

Paige didn't know her alphabet when she started school last year (she knew it as a song, but not what each letter was) but she picked them up so so quickly in school, I couldn't quite believe it! I just made sure she knew what was in her homework diary (usually a few sounds per week) and didn't try to teach her anything myself. 
She very quickly learned how to read and is progressing really well according to her teachers


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## smileyfaces

I wouldn't push it, he will learn it in school with phonics :)


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## lau86

He enjoyed doing his alphabet lotto so that's good but other than that were not making a big deal out of it


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## Vickie

My daughter knew her entire alphabet going into school so it was new to me when my son expressed zero interest! He just started JK and we've already noticed he's starting to pick it up quickly. I have been practicing with him at night but it's literally just me picking out one of the many alphabet books we have and reading it to him. I don't want to pressure him to learn but since he is now finally expressing an interest in reading letters off of signs etc. I find that he's paying more attention to the books. They are generally short and after we "practice" our letters and numbers he chooses other books he wants to be read to him before bed. :)


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## Vickie

Also I've come to realize that my daughter is a visual learner and she can memorize things very quickly. My son is more of a hands on learner.


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## zorak

SarahBear said:


> So this is a bit off topic, but it seems like a bad idea to not teach both the sound and the name. For one, the letters don't always make the same sound and for another, it seems like it would be confusing later. And having a name and a sound really isn't that confusing. Think about animals. Kids learn early on that animals have both a name and a sound. Seems letters should be treated the same. I started talking about letters with both the name and sound from very early on and it was never confusing for my daughter who is now nearly 4 and knows many letter names and letter sounds (I don't exactly quiz her so I don't know how many she knows). And she also enjoys spelling things with me (I sound it out phoneme by phoneme and she says the letter that goes with each phoneme) and I'll make it a point to point out that sometimes letters say different sounds and sometimes you can't hear them at all.

This is exactly right. It's one of the biggest problems we face when parents start teaching their kids phonics or the alphabet. I'm a teacher and what you describe is pretty much how we initially teach phonics. We introduce letter sounds 'a', 'o' etc then very quickly move onto sound rules 'ae', 'oo'. Another frustration is that some parents also incorrectly sound out letters by not using pure sounds. 

My advice to the Op would be chat to your son's teacher if you have any concerns.


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## Wilsey

I haven't read all the comments (sorry) but a couple of teachers I know said quite often parents teach their kids incorrectly and they have to undo the work they've put in. I think it's better to just let them learn it on their own (and they will). Don't worry about what other kids are doing, or average ages for learning things. Someone had to learn it really early and others quite late to get the average. All of which is normal.


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## noon_child

zorak said:


> SarahBear said:
> 
> 
> So this is a bit off topic, but it seems like a bad idea to not teach both the sound and the name. For one, the letters don't always make the same sound and for another, it seems like it would be confusing later. And having a name and a sound really isn't that confusing. Think about animals. Kids learn early on that animals have both a name and a sound. Seems letters should be treated the same. I started talking about letters with both the name and sound from very early on and it was never confusing for my daughter who is now nearly 4 and knows many letter names and letter sounds (I don't exactly quiz her so I don't know how many she knows). And she also enjoys spelling things with me (I sound it out phoneme by phoneme and she says the letter that goes with each phoneme) and I'll make it a point to point out that sometimes letters say different sounds and sometimes you can't hear them at all.
> 
> This is exactly right. It's one of the biggest problems we face when parents start teaching their kids phonics or the alphabet. I'm a teacher and what you describe is pretty much how we initially teach phonics. We introduce letter sounds 'a', 'o' etc then very quickly move onto sound rules 'ae', 'oo'. Another frustration is that some parents also incorrectly sound out letters by not using pure sounds.
> 
> My advice to the Op would be chat to your son's teacher if you have any concerns.Click to expand...

I think most phonics programs teach the name AND the sound. I think my daughter did Jolly Phonics so came home singing songs about the name and sound of the letters and doing an action associated with it. 

I wouldn't worry about him confusing letters at this stage, making mistakes is just part of learning and they all go through phases of doing things "wrong" (some really predictable, to the point the teacher warned us not to worry if all their writing suddenly turned in to capitals or went backwards - and sure enough it suddenly did!)


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## BunnyN

From a slightly different perspective I am dislexic. Although the school I went to was quite good on the whole it really wasn't good at identifying and helping children with special needs. I am very grateful to my mum who taught me lots of extra stuff out of school. Even then I didn't learn to read until I was 8. No one realised I couldn't read because I just memorised my reading, lol. I've since met more than one child who went all the way through the system without learning to read and I think that would have been me if my mum hadn't helped me out so much. She did phonics and letter names with me from an early age. She never got too heavy with it but it made a huge difference.


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## liz1985

My ds is a tiny bit younger but think they are in the same school year (fs2/reception). He also has a picture book as his reading book as do most of the children in his class. He knows the sounds the letters make (phonics) but they dont teach the alphabet as we would know it. Im pretty sure your son will do 'big cat phonics' as that is what most schools do. Try searching for 'ants on my arm' on you tube, and you will find all the little songs they use to teach them the sounds. Its hard to get it across on hear as you cant hear its just letters on a page but the sounds are so much different to how we used to learn them. We used to do baby letters and big letters but they are completly different to that now.


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