# frank breech homebirth uk?



## frenchlady

Hi Ladies, 

What a situation i am in... First baby was born at home! Amazing experience. No one thought he was going to be 9lbs4oz but that wasn't an issue at all! He was pushed out in 21 minutes after a very long and painful back to back labour! 

Nevertheless i wouldnt change a thing! 

Currently 36 weeks with our second, i had a low lying placenta which eventually moved north! 
Why they felt the need to check growth is beyond me! The NHS can really be trouble makers! they got me worried and clearly i am just getting over that. Fair enough baby 2 is going to be smaller but is not showing any signs of distress in mummy's tummy! :thumbup:

However, baby is cheeky and is in a frank breech position. Although there are still chances of baby turning, i want to be prepared to argue my case for natural active birth! Still considering a homebirth after the horrendous adventure i have had so far with extra scans and OVER medicalising the birthing experience. 
Clearly if this doesnt pick up my pregnancy will have been ruined and rather traumatic in comparison to my son's! :growlmad::nope:

Any thoughts??


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## bump2be

Just curious, will they actually allow you to have a breech baby at home? I'm not in the U.K., but I wasn't even allowed to have a vaginal birth with my 1st because baby was breech!

Good luck with everything - I hope you get the birth experience you want :)


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## frenchlady

In the UK no one can decide where one gives birth. :thumbup:
They obviously can be opposed to your choice and try and dissuade you but no one can force a mum to be to do anything!


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## Mervs Mum

Hi FL. as you said no one can tell you where to birth your baby. There's no 'allowed' about it! But you're right to assume that you may come up against some resistance to a breech home birth IF your babe stays that way. My own baby stayed breech until around 37 weeks and kindly flipped head down after a hypnosis session. You may be aware of moxibustion as another good way of priming a breech baby to turn head down and of course ECV which is a manual turning but can be more risky and you should do some research before agreeing to this too. Spinning Babies website has some great breech turning positions that you can be using every day to encourage him head down.

Dont forget you can decline growth scans if you feel they are adding unnecessary stress to the situation and IF you get to 38 weeks and are still breech then you can talk about your wishes for your birth. I would be asking if they have any mws who are confident delivering a breech baby vaginally as this might seem a big ask but depending on where you are in the country you never know. If you have a local home birth support group get yourself along or speak to the people running it as they are likely to know the local 'climate' or 'politics' and experience of breech home birth. Independent midiwives are very happy to support breech births at home so this is another option to consider.


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## bump2be

We tried everything to get our breech baby to turn, ECV, moxibustion, shoulder stands etc. I really wanted a natural birth, but was told there were no OB's or midwives who would deliver a breech baby! This is in Canada, which has a very similar healthcare set up as the U.K.


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## ljo1984

Personally I'd still want a hb with a breech baby, you more than likely will have to fight your corner and tell them this is what I want and it will be that way but it's your decision and they have to attend. Xx


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## frenchlady

Mervs Mum said:


> Hi FL. as you said no one can tell you where to birth your baby. There's no 'allowed' about it! But you're right to assume that you may come up against some resistance to a breech home birth IF your babe stays that way. My own baby stayed breech until around 37 weeks and kindly flipped head down after a hypnosis session. You may be aware of moxibustion as another good way of priming a breech baby to turn head down and of course ECV which is a manual turning but can be more risky and you should do some research before agreeing to this too. Spinning Babies website has some great breech turning positions that you can be using every day to encourage him head down.
> 
> Dont forget you can decline growth scans if you feel they are adding unnecessary stress to the situation and IF you get to 38 weeks and are still breech then you can talk about your wishes for your birth. I would be asking if they have any mws who are confident delivering a breech baby vaginally as this might seem a big ask but depending on where you are in the country you never know. If you have a local home birth support group get yourself along or speak to the people running it as they are likely to know the local 'climate' or 'politics' and experience of breech home birth. Independent midiwives are very happy to support breech births at home so this is another option to consider.

Thanks a lot! :)
i have tried pretty much everything but the ECV. I think after tuesday (appointment with senior consultant after a sweet midwife saw my distress when i was told by doctor i might need a section) i will refuse any scans!!!! its been awful and as not changed the outcome so enough is enough... :winkwink:




ljo1984 said:


> Personally I'd still want a hb with a breech baby, you more than likely will have to fight your corner and tell them this is what I want and it will be that way but it's your decision and they have to attend. Xx

i am going to book my HB tomorrow... i am praying hard to turn baby but if not then we will pray harder for a perfect breech delivery! :)



bump2be said:


> We tried everything to get our breech baby to turn, ECV, moxibustion, shoulder stands etc. I really wanted a natural birth, but was told there were no OB's or midwives who would deliver a breech baby! This is in Canada, which has a very similar healthcare set up as the U.K.

Thanks for your message: i have tried pretty much everything you can think of. Headstands in pool and out of pool, birth ball, moxa, acupuncture... 
if it must happen it will now. Keeping the faith. 
I know for sure consultants will deliver breech babies in the UK as two prepared to do it but in hospital. Independent m/w too will deliver breech babies but they are a little expensive to hire.


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## frenchlady

ljo1984 said:


> Personally I'd still want a hb with a breech baby, you more than likely will have to fight your corner and tell them this is what I want and it will be that way but it's your decision and they have to attend. Xx

When you say they "have to attend" do you mean that if i want a HB they have to provide m/w regardless of their opinion on the risks?


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## ljo1984

Yep they have a duty to care so even if they say you should go in it's ultimately your decision, if you refuse and say you expect a mw to attend they have to come out. Xx


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## frenchlady

ljo1984 said:


> Yep they have a duty to care so even if they say you should go in it's ultimately your decision, if you refuse and say you expect a mw to attend they have to come out. Xx

Brilliant! thanks a lot for that. I am armed with what i need for tomorrow and tuesday's appointment. 
I am going to refuse any extra scans! they have caused more trouble and have brought no answer as to why my baby isnt as chubby as my first! :wacko:
And frankly i dont care... my baby is well and deserves a beautiful birth! 

Baby is going to turn!! come on!!!! :headspin:


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## ljo1984

Good on you, I'm gonna grow a back bone for next time, could be my last baby and I WILL have a hb, no stupid transfer for me again ha ha. Gonna try persuade oh I should have a doula just incase the back bone plan is just talk ha ha. X


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## frenchlady

ljo1984 said:


> Good on you, I'm gonna grow a back bone for next time, could be my last baby and I WILL have a hb, no stupid transfer for me again ha ha. Gonna try persuade oh I should have a doula just incase the back bone plan is just talk ha ha. X

How come you had to transfer? if you need any help let me know! i had the most amazing experience...


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## ljo1984

Meconium in waters, oh saved me the inco sheet I was on (so thoughtful ha ha) n I was shocked that there were only a few specks in it, I didn't look at the time but presumed there was loads in it! She transferred me cause I was only 3-4cm but she was still born 50 mins later about 10-15 mins after I arrived in my room, wasn't in distress and was fit and healthy. I need to make it work next time I enjoyed my labour and birth, as Imogen was pitocin, epidural, forceps job so I just need to repeat the same again but all at home in my pool next time.


Hope everything goes ok for you, let us know how your mw appointment goes. X


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## Sam Pearson

Where I live many (most) women birth breech babies naturally at home - it's just a variation of normal. Personally, I'd prefer to be at home with a breech baby because I know that the less common they are in hospital the more fearful hospital staff have become of them and the last thing a birthing woman needs to deal with when birthing is the baggage her birth support people bring to the event. It is so ridiculous when medical staff claim they "don't do breech births". That's really stupid because women birth breech babies and helping owmen birth is their profession.

Mary Cronk, a now retired midwife, has done some great work helping midwives understand how to approach breech births. If you google her and also "A Day At The Breech" you will find some great info.

There is also good info here if you search the articles for "breech":

Midwifery Matters
https://www.midwifery.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

Personally, I woul;dn't try to turn a breech position baby but if you are interested in that there is some good info here:

https://www.spinningbabies.com/

You might get inspiration from the lovely breech birth clips below and YouTube has lots of great natural vaginal breech birth videos:

https://www.homebirth.net.au/

https://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=561#comments


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## Sam Pearson

ljo1984 said:


> Meconium in waters,

It sounds liek your midwife was unfamiliar with breech position births. With breech births meconium is almost always presen and isn't cause for concern the way it is with a head down baby. From Medscape:

"Thick meconium passage is common as the breech is squeezed through the birth canal. This is usually not associated with meconium aspiration because the meconium passes out of the vagina and does not mix with the amniotic fluid. "

Here are some photos of a footling breech where you can see the meconium.

https://www.birthingway.com/footling_breech.htm


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## ljo1984

Freya was head down. But them pictures are amazing, I'd defonatly refuse a c section if one of my babies ever was breech. Freya passed Mec like that as soon as she was born, I was covered in it! But in my waters it was little green specks. X


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## frenchlady

hi ladies!! had an appointment with a homebirth team midwife. Unfortunately not the one i am used to seeing but very helpful nevertheless. She admitted that i am to decide where we have this baby and whatever decision we make, they will support our choice and respect it. How amazing... 

However she did admit that she would be anxious to attend because although they are trained on dummies, they never get to do them as the consultants "overtake". 

She mentioned that on the day we would have two midwives (as i did for my first HB) I have agreed to a student midwife at the beginning of my pregnancy too AND the head of HB midwives. I am thinking with these 4 ladies present, everything will be ok... 

Completing my birthplan tonight with my amazingly supportive hubby and then we will discuss it with m/w in 2 weeks. (i know buba will stay put until then... ;) )

What do you think? does that sound reasonable?


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## ljo1984

That sounds brilliant. I'm sure it is an anxious time for a mw if she hasn't delivered a breech before but as you say you will have 4 ladies there including the head of the hb team so sure all will be fine, also as said before you have time for baby to turn. X


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## Mervs Mum

Sounds fabulous. I don't think you can ask for any more at this stage :thumbup: you would expect more than 2 mws for a breech vaginal delivery anyway. IF baby stays breech you will be helping them to regain lost skills so well done you x


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## pinklizzy

That's amazing! I had a hospital breech birth although I would've loved a HB I thought it wasn't possible.


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## frenchlady

pinklizzy said:


> That's amazing! I had a hospital breech birth although I would've loved a HB I thought it wasn't possible.

:flower: how did it go? was she your first? did you have the epidural? sorry i have so many questions. Did you tear/have an episiotomy? did baby take time to breathe?



Mervs Mum said:


> Sounds fabulous. I don't think you can ask for any more at this stage :thumbup: you would expect more than 2 mws for a breech vaginal delivery anyway. IF baby stays breech you will be helping them to regain lost skills so well done you x




ljo1984 said:


> That sounds brilliant. I'm sure it is an anxious time for a mw if she hasn't delivered a breech before but as you say you will have 4 ladies there including the head of the hb team so sure all will be fine, also as said before you have time for baby to turn. X


Thanks ladies for the support! I hope to gain confidence too... i am a bit worried to tell the truth.


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## ljo1984

I think it's understandable to be a bit anxious as it's something different. I'd read loads of positive breech birth stories and videos to get your confidence up, a ladie in this part of forum recently had twins at home in the pool, both breech 38 weeks I think she was! Not sure if she's done a birth story yet but just knowing she did it is still very empowering. The last thing you need when you go into labour is to be scared. Xxx


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## pinklizzy

Frenchlady-yes, she was my first. I had gas and air at the end and an episiotomy (most of the labour I was in the ward toilets trying to be quiet) It seemed to take ages for her head to be born and she was a little grey for about 30 secs afterwards but was then very alert.


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## frenchlady

Hi ladies, 

I just wanted to let you know Scarlett Jane came to the world on the 20th February. It turned out to be a C section after all as she showed signs of distress at one of our monitoring. 

Thanks for the support though and all the best!


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## ljo1984

congratulations on your little girl, hope your recovering well. xx


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## minibeast

congratulations! a beautiful name and i bet a beautiful girl to match xxx


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## tripletsOMG

frenchlady said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> What a situation i am in... First baby was born at home! Amazing experience. No one thought he was going to be 9lbs4oz but that wasn't an issue at all! He was pushed out in 21 minutes after a very long and painful back to back labour!
> 
> Nevertheless i wouldnt change a thing!
> 
> Currently 36 weeks with our second, i had a low lying placenta which eventually moved north!
> Why they felt the need to check growth is beyond me! The NHS can really be trouble makers! they got me worried and clearly i am just getting over that. Fair enough baby 2 is going to be smaller but is not showing any signs of distress in mummy's tummy! :thumbup:
> 
> However, baby is cheeky and is in a frank breech position. Although there are still chances of baby turning, i want to be prepared to argue my case for natural active birth! Still considering a homebirth after the horrendous adventure i have had so far with extra scans and OVER medicalising the birthing experience.
> Clearly if this doesnt pick up my pregnancy will have been ruined and rather traumatic in comparison to my son's! :growlmad::nope:
> 
> Any thoughts??

my birth story in in twins section but i just had breech twins at home its really not as scary as people make it seem. first 1 was complete breech turned frank breech as came out w/o complication. b was footling breech prolapsed cord wasnt an issue i just pushed him out when cord dropped. if u have a great mw you shouldnt be nervous1 good luck:hugs:


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## ljo1984

^^ ooooo ive been waiting for your birth story, off for a peek now. xx


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