# Male Factor Roll Call



## MissAma

Hey ladies, just curious, considering how much BnB's LTTTC section seems to have grown lately, how many of us are here with a Male Factor (azoospermia, oligo, morphology, motility, immune issues) diagnostic?

Is there a running list? If I were new around here I'd sure want to know. Let me see if I know so far:

MissAma - Azoospermia with successful Surgical Testicular Retrival (questionable, we had chemicals) - TTC for 3 years - 1 failed ICSI - https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-a...e-factor-icsis-chemicals-poas-obsessions.html :bfp: on ICSI No.2! :happydance:

Chocci -Idiopatic Oligoasthenozoospermia (low count, morph and motility but much improved with lifestyle) https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-a...an-1st-2010-new-year-new-decade-new-life.html

Peartree - oligoastenospermia (low count, low morph) - awaiting ICSI? - https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-ac-journals/179282-peartrees-little-thread-sanity.html :bfp: :happydance:

Hayz - :bfp: on IVF 1

Rachelle75 -Improved but still MF - Awaiting ICSI 1 - https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-ac-journals/63040-rachelles-pma-explosion-result-bfp-2010-a.html

MissMonty - Sperm Antibodies - Mid-First-and-Last-ICSI Cycle

Sabine - Oligoastenospermia (low count and morph), PCOS and Endo - www.alfabeats.blogspot.com - IVF :bfp:

JojoD - low count - Mid-First-and-Last-ICSI Cycle - ICSI 1 :bfp: :happydance:

hopesforababy - Testicular Cancer, low sperm count - 2 IUI cycles - IVF next

looknomore - Low motility - TTC for 1 year - 1st IUI

ald - Low Motility and PCOS - several failed Clomid cycles - Awaiting ICSI - https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-ac-journals/69895-alds-ttc-journal-im-back.html

Hopeful27yrs - Azoospermia bilateral undescended - Awaiting ICSI, probably donor

Cupcale Queen - Sperm Antibodies, Fibroids, Immune issues and Endo - Awaiting next ICSI - https://www.babyandbump.com/ltttc-ac-journals/153810-2010-year-baby.html

Leila Fae - Low Morphology (6%) - Awaiting IVF?

Mummytofour - Oligospermia (2mil) - TTC naturally?

FBaby - Low Count and Morphology - TTC naturally

Underthestars - Leukemia so frozen sperm - ICSI

BigFoot1980 - Low Morphology 3% and Low Motility 15% - TTC Naturally?

Titi - Low Motility - TTC Naturally

Aphrodite - Bad Morph, low Motility - https://www.babyandbump.com/problem...ems-trying-conceive/ltttc-ac-...s-journey.htm IVF :bfp: !!!

Farie - Improved Results so borderline Unexplained! - natural :bfp::happydance:

grneyednurse - low count but improving - TTC naturally

beauty - mild PCOS, low count - TTC naturally - awaiting ICSI

MrsR32 - Low count, low morph - awaiting ICSI

Dancingkaty1 - TTC #2 - low count, low motility - awaiting IUI

suzie7 - all clear but DH low count, low motility - TTC naturally

tickledpink - low count, motility and morphology - TTC for 3 long years - awaiting treatment

DragonMummy - secondary infertility, PCOS, low morphology

lady blush - PCOS and low morphology - trying for 6 hugely long years - on NHS IVF waiting list

DillyC - oligo, under 1 M - awaiting ICSI

zowiey - low count and morphology issues, awaiting BMI

LochBride - low motility & morphology (both about 10%) - TTC since Jan 2009 - awaiting first visit to fertility clinic.

Babyloulou- low motility (26%) and low morphology (13%). PCOS and no ovulation. - trying since 2005- On 4th round of Clomid (then to ICSI- :bfp:

Brumbar - low morphology (last test in Jan 5% before that 0%!!!!2%,3%, 4%) - TTC since Dec 2007 - Awaiting ICSI 2

Deb111 - azoospermia diagnosed April 2010 - TTC for 20 montha - Awaiting SSR

Rdy2BaMom- Dh has low morphology, count, motility. Urologist appt May 5th

Hopesprings-low morphology 4% IUI #1 with clomid (also Fertilaid for Men) - :bfp: !!!

Mrskcbrown - Low morphology - waiting for IUI

Springflower - no normal forms - awaiting ICSI

Who else?:shrug:


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## MissMonty

Hi

We have male factor infertility - DH has antisperm antibodies - they are virtually impossible to get rid of. We think they may have been caused by a sporting injury.

We only found out at our consultation with the fertility clinic, and they explained they many people with unexplained turn out to have male factor.

We have just had our first ICSI cycle x


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## hopesforababy

We also have male factor. It seems like there are a lot more of us with male factor in the past month or so. We have really low sperm count due to testicular cancer. DH is fine now, but he had one removed, so his numbers are really low. We are in the process of starting IVF. We had our first consultation the other day and the doctor flat out told us that we won't get pregnant naturally and that he wasn't surprised that my two IUI's failed. Kinda shocked to hear it so bluntly, but also a bit of a relief to know that it's really not something that I'm doing wrong.
Thankfully we have the ability to overcome these obstacles and get our :bfp:
:dust:


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## Sabine

Wow, this is like the worst roll call to be on ever 
Sign me on up...

We have oligoasthenospermia (low count, low morph - due to one undescended testicle) 

(and I have PCOS and endometriosis)
boo hoo :(


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## jojoD

We are on our icsi journey for male factor also

Low count due to undescended testicles, not treated until the dh was around six years old. 

Our egg collection is on Monday, hoping for enough spermies for good fertilisation 

:wacko:


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## peartree

Hey MissAma - good idea starting this! 

Agree it's got to be the worst roll call ever, but hey ho, I guess that's our lot, eh? :winkwink:

A little about our situation - DH has low everything due to undescended testes too - wasn't treated til he was until 9 or 10. :nope:

Sabine, if you don't mind me asking, does your OH still have undescended testes? Don't have to answer if I'm being too nosy. I just wondered if this was something that was physically noticeable. As in, I'm still blaming his mum/parents and really bitter that she didn't pick it up during the thousands of times they've changed his nappy/bathed him.


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## looknomore

Am new here so hope am doing this right.

TTC for 1 year
DH has low sperm motility
Ist Cycle IUI this month


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## Sabine

peartree, dont mind you asking at all. only one was undescended, but noticed way too late by a school nurse and only fixed at age 8/9. That testicle is a bit smaller than the other, and it feels different - softer - but otherwise not noticeable. I asked if I could phone and shout at his mother and he said yes!!!!
totally blame her. and who doesnt take their kid to a pediatrician anyway, even if she didnt notice it herself!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

Has your hubby's been repaired and can you see any difference?

There seem to be quite a few of us with hubbies who had this, didnt realise how 'common' it was.
With some other male factors it is treatable (ie varicocele) but dont think we have many options. did your doc give any other info? mine pretty much sucks.


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## ald

Please add me to the roll call, my dh has very low motility (10%) and I have PCOS :-(


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## MissAma

Whoa there are quite a few of us now indeed! - Except as you can imagine, I think oligospermia is an improvement to our situation so I'm envious you guys have ANY Clives coming out on their own! :)

I will write a proper list tomorrow. I am thinking it should contain Name - Type of Male Factor - TTC since - Treatment Form -BnB Diary Link. Any other suggestions? In a few months we ought to have success stories links too!


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## peartree

Sabine - Both were undescended, and they were both corrected. When we started dating, I did notice the scars, but never in a million years did I think it affected anything.

I'm glad that you guys feel like blaming the mother too. I sometimes feel that I'm being very illogical and unreasonable for being bitter towards her.

When we found out, I was so angry at his mother, because I thought that the doc who carried out the operation would have mentioned something, and it was her duty to mention it to DH. But the urologist has said that only relatively recently have studies concluded that you have to carry out the operation before 2 yrs old for it to not affect fertility. They're a very uncommunicative family and keep things to themselves, and don't really talk about private things, so to this day she hasn't mentioned anything to me or asked me about anything that's going to happen, like everything is normal. DH has talked to her about things, but has never confronted her. :growlmad:

The urologist said that because the problem with count, etc, are very obviously because of the undescended testes, then there is really no option but to go for IVF, and because in our case it really is quite low, then ICSI would be the way forward. Would that be what you're going for?

Lovely (or not, as the case may be) to see so many people here, kinda like a special support network. :hugs: 

MissAma, hopefully, everyone here will have success story before the year's out!


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## Hopeful27yrs

DH had bilateral undescended testicles which were not corrected until he was 28 - only because DH then wanted to be able to check himself for lumps. 

After having SA (which showed nothing) his mother said she doesn't remember him having any problem.

We're probably going to go the sperm donation route as we've seen a urologist who advised that testicular biopsy would probably show nothing - which we expect also. Looking into research there has only been 1 child born to someone in a similar position and that was after very invasive methods. You also have to worry about the quality of the 'sperm' if able to retrieve it after all that time whether it will be normal.


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## chocci

hey MissAma

Cupcake Queen has Male factor too has sperm antiibodies, you may want to ask her if she wants to be involved in thsi thread/

Here is a little inspiration for you girls, my hubby was diagnosed with Idiopathic oligoasthenozoospermia, in laymans terms, low count, low motility, low morphology, you name it everything. Nothing drastic just all in combination with each other he ws given little chance of getting me preggers naturally. 

He cut right down on alcohol, not totally but does not have much at all now, he improved his crap diet, forcing veggies and salads etc down his throat, not loads but better than he did, and he started taking Selenium plus male vits.

For first ICSI all his readings had improved, still the readings were not great, but they had doubled. The only reading we could not compare was the morpology cos they do not do that for ICSI (takes them too much time). For the second ICSI after keeping up his healthier lifestyle his readings had gone up even more - over doubled! Still not fantastic, but we were told that had that been his original diagnostic sample (depending on what the morphology had shown) we would probably have just done IVF and no need for ICSI.

So that just shows you what a better lifestyle does in SOME cases, and it's all worth a try to at least get that all important ICSI sample to be the best quality to make your little embies!!

We eventually got our BFP a few days ago..... it's been a tough ride, mentally and physically, you start to question everything, will it ever happen to me, will we get our baby, is there any point going on after you have a failure, etc...... but keep going, it WILL happen, some just take longer than others - all we need in a cycle is a little bit of luck!!!

xxx


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## Leila Fae

We have a male factor issue - low morphology (6%). We're back to the GP in a week or so to get another SA to see if it's improved but considering DH's lifestyle wasn't bad to start with (loves his veggies and doesn't drink much) we're not hopeful that it'll be any better.


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## Mummytofour

My DH had a sperm count of only 2 million after his successful vaesectomy reversal in 1999 and we have 4 children, the first concieved only 3 months after the op!
So there is hope ladies!!:thumbup:
I now have high prolactin which is not helping but GP said DH's gun may not be as fully loaded as he thinks!!! LOL!!
We assumed his count had improved due to conceiving naturally but as he smokes then maybe not as we haven't done the SA route yet.


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## FBbaby

Leila Fae said:


> We have a male factor issue - low morphology (6%). We're back to the GP in a week or so to get another SA to see if it's improved but considering DH's lifestyle wasn't bad to start with (loves his veggies and doesn't drink much) we're not hopeful that it'll be any better.

I second this. This new thread is starting at the most opportunistic time for me since we found out yesterday that we had male factor issues too. It came as a total surprise since I fell pg last May first cycle after stopping the pill (resulted in m/c a couple of weeks later). As I am 39 we assumed our trouble (if we could even assume there was one as only ttc 9 months since the m/c) was due to my age and shrinking eggs. SA result was low count (18 million) and low morphology (4%). Motility was fine. 

Like your OH Leila, there isn't much OH can do as he already lives a perfect lifestyle, very active, eats unusually healthily (he even drinks green tea!) and doesn't smoke. The only thing he can improve is his drinking, but then, if all english men drinking like he does had problems, the English population would instinguish in no time :haha:

We too have decided to go for another SA, we were advised to wait for 6 weeks at least though as this is the minimum it would take to see real changes, and if still bad, we will have to seriously consider icsi as soon as possible because my mature age becomes then a factor.

What a journey it has been from deciding to start ttc, to fall pg unexpectedly a month later, to m/c the following month, to go through the highs and lows of ttc, to finally find out a week before the baby would have been due that this pregnancy had been as close as to a miracle as it gets. 

Chocci, CONGRATULATIONS, that's such brilliant news, many :hugs::hugs: to you.


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## underthestars

Frozen sperm after Leukaemia...do we count?


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## BigFoot1980

Count me in too. Low morphology 3% + low motility 15%.


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## Titi

Hi all-

MF-motility 49%. Since test in November he has quit smoking (yay!!!!) and is eating a little better.....going to order some Wellmans I think as well this month. Hoping something will work.


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## rachelle1975

Hey Missama - sorry bit late for my response!! Yep male factor although i'm happy to say what he's got is above average :wohoo: Unfortunately quantity is a bit crap :blush:


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## Sabine

Peartree, my DH's mom told him the doc who did his op said the undescended testicle would definitely not affect his fertility, so she was as shocked as we were. I think they didn't know the full effects back then.

For those with MF due to undescended testes, do you know if there is a way to improve it, or is this our lot in life?
His first SA was 2.8mil, 48% mot, 14% morph. but he said he felt a lot under pressure, and his second just a couple of weeks later was 18mil, 60% mot, 8% morph. Now I don't know what to think!
In the meantime he is on vitamins and maca, and next SA is in 6 weeks time.


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## Hopeful27yrs

Sabine said:


> For those with MF due to undescended testes, do you know if there is a way to improve it, or is this our lot in life?

Unfortunately the germ cells which produce sperm "die" off the longer they are exposed to the temperatures within the human body - hence why they are supposed to hang outside. The longer they've been in the human body the less numbers there are and the more mutations they undergo - hence why the testicular cancer risk increases later in life and the quality of sperm decreases.

Basically there is little way of increasing the numbers or quality and therefore ICSI is often offered as doctors can select reasonable sperm (if available) to inseminate eggs.


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## Sabine

Thanks Hopeful! What about if only 1 testicle was undescended?


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## Aphrodite

We are male factor too due to DH having glandular fever of all things. I am in rude fertile health lol. Count is going up on every SA, but motility is going down. Currently 11%. Morphology is about 98% abnormal or something.


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## Farie

We are still struggling, improved results have moved us from male factor to 'unexplained' but will be testing them again this month so will see how that goes.


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## Cupcake Queen

Hey MissAma

Good idea to start this thread. 

And yes chocci is right - DH has sperm antibodies. Although he has a daughter (7 y.old) with previous wife and we managed to get pregnant 'naturally' once just after we got married - antibodies are here to stay and there is nothing to be done except ICSI. My Polycystic ovaries, fibroids and endo doesn't help things- but what can you do eh?


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## BigFoot1980

Sabine said:


> Thanks Hopeful! What about if only 1 testicle was undescended?

Hi Sabine,
In that case the other one will function normally I think. It would just mean that counts might be lower. I am not sure but my DH also has one undescended and his counts were always lower, after taking wellman and maca, counts improved but motility and morphology dropped even further.


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## MissAma

I've updated the list girls, if there's anything you want in or out of it let me know here or by PM and I'll take care of it.



Hopeful27yrs said:


> We're probably going to go the sperm donation route as we've seen a urologist who advised that testicular biopsy would probably show nothing - which we expect also. Looking into research there has only been 1 child born to someone in a similar position and that was after very invasive methods. You also have to worry about the quality of the 'sperm' if able to retrieve it after all that time whether it will be normal.

Not knocking donor hon, far be it from me, we may end up having to do that as well but I just wanted to say I saw many many children bought from guys with azoospermia regardless of why they had it. 

As for how invasive it is.... the MESA or PESA, the sperm retrival procedures... I imagine why the guys are more than reluctant to have their family jewels operated on but realistically.... it was only 20 mins and then 2 days of ice on the jewels... nothing like what IVF will entail for you!

As for the quality of testicular sperm that is a good topic! And in that sense there are many aspects (this applies to you too Underthestars as thawing is a common issue) and yes, the quality is lower but at the same time with the lab procedures today they can do PID and better cultures and help them get to blasto....



Aphrodite said:


> I am in rude fertile health lol.

LOL indeed! I think I have a couple of issues now, a few years down the line but I remember saying the same thing when we started this and it's not easy, being healthy and seemingly uber able to make the baby in a second while he can't "help". Very straining on the relationship as I'm sure we all know.

LeilaFae - while looking for your diary I found your thread about the light AF - me too! I keep thinking it can't be good and lo and behold when I had the scans during IVF I only had 7 mm in lining which is low with all the hormones so we're on to something.... keep an eye on it and get yourself tested for hypotyroidism if you can


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## grneyednurse

Hell MissAMa...can I join the list? ANd thanks for starting this thread. Hallelujah! 

Hubby has what we think is secondary hypogonadism (pituitary prolly-just had an MRI) and has had 1 SA: 50,000 or 1-2 sperm seen per microscopic field. 
He hasn't had another yet, but I look under a microscope myself since suspecting this problem 9 months ago. This microscope has counting chambers in it and I check every so often. He would fluctuate from 1-2 per field to about 20. Now he has been on intramuscular HCG for the last 2 weeks and it looks extremely promising now! He has had anywhere from 11-55 million (or way too many to count) since looking! I hope it keeps up as I will be ovulating in about 10 days.


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## beauty

Hey ladies
We have male problems, low sperm (no ideas why) apart from just one of those things.. They havent really tested why OH has low sperm. Since his last SA he has stopped smoking so I would love to see if it has improved his sperm results when he has to re test.

He use to smoke 20 a day so im hoping it helps the swimmers :)
I too have mild pcos which can cause crazy cycles.. 

My oh produced around 2 million sperm per ml, but he produced alot of ml.. think in total he had around 14 million but out the 14millon the good stuff was about 8 million..

So low sperm per ml, but he produces alot of ml.. So we have numbers but again this was after 3 days holding it all in so the numbers will decrease alot if we did SA tests on say day2 ..

I really hope these improve, well improve enough if we have ICIS so we can use OH sperm, I know they only need one sperm for this but i hope we can do this procedure..

Funding for my region starts April so no tests or anything will not start until the hospital get my funding for the treatment which may be end of March time early April then the ball will start rolling for tests etc!! 
xxx


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## MrsR32

Hey girls, can I join too?

DH has low count (3.5m from memory) but also about 98% of these are abnormal forms. There's no known reason for this but he's now taking Maca and Wellman Conception and we're just waiting for the results of a recent SA so keeping our fingers crossed that the pills have made a difference.

We're just waiting to start our first ICSI cycle, should be starting in just a few weeks now.


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## Dancingkaty1

hi....we have been ttc number 2 for 18 mths

i have polycysts on only ovary but have had all the other tests done & have got the all clear....just had the last test which was a lap & dye & that went well, no endo found :)

my dh had a sperm test last june & we were told the results we bad...think it was 18 million, but they were slow progressing :( he started taking fertile aid for men in aug & his 2nd sperm sample in sept was much better....slightly higher count 21million but the motilty improved & were progressing well :) the fertile aid 4 men were getting expensive so we swapped to wellmans conception in nov /oct ...he is going to do another test next week as we need up to date resuts for the 3rd march when we go & have our consultation at the fertilty center to discuss iui...


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## suzie7

Please add me! 

DH has low count, 12 mill per ml and 17% motility, leaving us with 3.6 million spermies! :cry:
TTC since August 09, not too terribly long but long enough!

I had HSG, ultra sound, progesterone blood work to see if I was ovulating and everything came back normal thus far. Regular cycles, etc. 

We have one more SA in 2 weeks and I'm hoping for better numbers! DH is on zinc, ginseng, maca, taurine, l'arginine, vit. E and C, and a multi--- poor fellow, it takes him two full glasses of water to swallow all the vitamins!

Keep me posted! I am REALLY interested in hearing about people who got pregnant naturally with low sperm count. I am hopeful that we can battle this out and get the count and motility up.


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## grneyednurse

Wow the reasons for male factor are a vast as infertility itself, but we are all in the same boat. A boat I hope we can all abandon one day!


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## hopesforababy

Has anyone heard of success rates for IVF when the only factor is male factor? My doctor said that at his clinic it was broken down by age of the female and that I am in the highest success group at 65%. But that has me factored in with women that may or may not have issues other than male factor, such as PCOS. Does this mean that I have a higher chance since our only reason for infertility is male factor?


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## grneyednurse

Yes babyhopes...here look up the CDC site on RE clinic stats..let me see if I cna find it...brb

https://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/ART/Marquee.aspx

Click around and you will find specific stats. It does say if woman has no problems and is under 35 and only problem is male factor (if she had children before this is even better) it's the most successful category to be in.


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## FBbaby

I was told my chances were at 20%, but that's because I am 39, although nothing is wrong with me at all. That's not very encouraging!

I have been wanting to ask a question for a couple of days now, I hope it is ok. How has finding out about your OH problem affected you ttc? We found out last Friday that OH swimmers were not how they should and the impact on how to face ttc is very much on my mind. It doesn't help that I knew I was ovulating the day after finding out. Until now, we had done the normal thing, used the cbfm, making sure to bd at the right times, using preeseed since I don't produce ewcm and then counting the days in the 2ww. I now feel quite confused as to whether continue as before or sparing us the emotional pain. Do you continue to try all you can on the basis that there is always a chance no matter how small it is?

My OH and I haven't yet discussed it, we are still a bit under shock and he needs more time to come to terms with the news. I felt a real urge to bd this week-end as at the moment, I can't bear the thought of not having even the tiniest chance to look forward to, but I am wondering if being in this situation makes the 2ww even worse. Thankfully, despite a hangover and nasty cold, my OH was happy to oblige! Where are you guys at? Have you given up ttc, just enjoying yourselves and just concentrating on icsi, or do you still continue to check when you are ovulating and insure to bd then? If so, have you been able to distance yourself a bit and go through the 2ww and deal with AF arriving without feeling the dreadful disappointment that hits you when you ttc?

I guess what makes it difficult for us is that I did get pregnant once, incredibly first cycle ttc. What we don't know is whether it was the ultime miracle, or whether his swimmers were healthier then. It would really help me to know how your guys are dealing with this :hugs:


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## MrsR32

FBBaby, I had the same thoughts when we were told we were facing male factor. We continued to BD at the right time every month but just made sure we were only trying every other day instead of every day. There is a thread somewhere on here with girls who have had their BFP despite male factor so it can happen. As you say, it's easier to deal with this if you believe there is some hope. Meanwhile, is IVF (ICSI) an option for you? We were refered as soon as male factor was diagnosed and we're just waiting for our first treatment cycle now.


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## grneyednurse

Actually TTC was easier as I kinda gave up with the thought "if it's gonna happen, it will" and if it doesn't, then IVF down the road. We kinda felt this way a few months afterwards and now we are back near full swing as there is always a small chance and we have to help things along as much as possible. I have heard of many stories of women getting a natural BFP with male factor.


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## FBbaby

Thanks MrsR32 and grneynurse
icsi is an option for us, but we won't be elligible for nhs funding and as we've been told we only have a 20% chance, I don't think I could face it without thinking we could commit to at least two cycles, so it has a huge implication that we certainly hadn't considered when only a week ago, we were ttc like most people wanting to get pg. 

I have read so many different things on the internet both in terms of improvement and ability to get a bfp even with poor results, it makes it difficult to know how positive and more importantly focussed we need to remain. I did fall pg so yes, it is possible, but I don't think I could cope with years of hoping each months that I get a bfp if the odds are stacked against us. 

This will be my first 2ww since we found out, so I'll see whether the symptoms get me as anxious as they normally do and if I get as disappointed when AF shows and go from there. 

Good luck Lee with your referral and hope treatment can start soon. At least if we decide to go down that route, we will be able to start right away as we will be private and there are no waiting list where we are.


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## beauty

Well we kind of just kept going, no way letting it affect my sex life.. :)
I mean Im not expecting a BFP out of it tho naturally and it would be great if we got one, but doesnt mean im not gonna enjoy sex and stick to it as and when we require not as and when it has to be in terms of the fertile time!!

I kind of feel bit better in ttc, (i mean more relaxed) knowing that we been referred for IVF / ICIS but also knowing i havent got to check my calender as and when to get the nookie in or as and when my period is due, you know what i havent checked my CP since finding all this out at december time, i kind of feel bit stress free with ttc..

Not saying i dont want a BFP cause believe you me i do and so does my OH so much but i am not letting it come between me and oh or our lives.. 

I got to the point not so long ago where i was so low, sometimes feel like that now especially with everyone else expecting babies but sometimes thinking positive and thinking it can happen keeps your going inside and keeps the baby and ttc issues alive..

Positive thoughts, make a postive mind, thinking it can and will happen might well make it happen xxxx


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## hopesforababy

It is a major blow to know that your chances of conceiving naturally are virtually nothing, especially to the man. In our situation, we knew as soon as DH was diagnosed with testicular cancer that our chances went down the drain. We couldn't even try for a year and a half until he finished treatment and got his final go ahead from his dr, but in the back of our minds we still hoped that we would have our baby. Hearing it from my dr. that it wasn't going to happen was sad, but we had already kind of accepted it. Up until that point, I was peeing on ovulation sticks, BD'ing every other day, keeping my butt propped after BD'ing. You know, all the tricks. And it was a chore during that week. But we aren't even doing that any more. Only the spontaneous lovin' these days! Much more relaxed and not so stressed wondering if it is or isn't going to happen. We are on the IVF/ICSI route now and they told us to try to NOT get pregnant while on injections as those hormones could hurt the baby should we become pregnant naturally (which I know we won't; but miracles can happen).
It sucks that we have to go through IVF or any kind of fertility treatment, but I am feeling much more calm and relaxed knowing that I wasn't doing anything wrong and that I don't need to jump through any hoops during OV to try to make it happen.


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## grneyednurse

So true hopesforababy. I go up and down, but I must keep trying as my hubby hasn't given up and therefore i won't give up on him. :( I would like to say just forget it, but he still has hope. I do too, but am a bit more realistic -I won't tell him that :)


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## Leila Fae

MissAma said:


> LeilaFae - while looking for your diary I found your thread about the light AF - me too! I keep thinking it can't be good and lo and behold when I had the scans during IVF I only had 7 mm in lining which is low with all the hormones so we're on to something.... keep an eye on it and get yourself tested for hypotyroidism if you can

My diabetic consultant has asked me to get the GP to test my thyroid function but I'm not sure if that's because of the diabetes or because of the TTC. Either way, it'll be good to know.


----------



## BigFoot1980

I was wondering if we could also share the list of supplements if any, for your DH. 

My DH is taking 
Wellman
Vitamin E 400IU
Vitamin C 500 mg (hoping to increase to 1000mg)
Grape Seed Extract 200mg

I have no known issues except for a tilted uterus so unsure about what to take apart from Folic acid, Considering Royal Jelly and Spirulla! I also try to drink REd Rasberry Leaf tea from CD 1 to ovulation along wit EPO.


----------



## beauty

I have no where given up, i have NEVER EVER been pregnant, NEVER had the a sniff of a BFP EVER and neither has my OH, none of us have any kids or ever been pregnant.. of course its hard its hard seeing everyone around me who have kids or who have ever been pregnant before its hard. Its also hard not knowing how it feels to be told your pregnant or even to see two lines on a pregnancy test, i would most no doubt faint if i ever see them lines.. 

I cant even see two lines on an ovulation stick.. :( I have just stopped with all the charting, ovulation sticks etc, i mean it does get too much after ttc for like nearly 2 years now.. I mean i feel like i was bogging me and oh down with the every day testing and checking my CP only so long you can do these things without feeling like its not getting anywhere.

Of course I have my up and down days like most ladies on the LTTC its freakin hard, more harder than I can express in writing..Today is no doubt one of those days.. 

But I wont give up, my oh hasnt given up, he keeps me positive, saying it will happen and it can happen so thats what i have to keep telling myself..

Of course at the age of 27 i didnt ever think i would be going down the IVF/ ICIS route EVER but i am going to have too unless someone blesses me from above before hand. 

However I so want to see two lines, i so want to go through pregnancy I so want to see my OH faces when i make him a dad, and i am willing to do anything to try to achieve that like most of u ladies on here. 

I wish you ladies loads of luck, remember things can happen, there are a few ladies on here who have gotten BFP on low sperm and other major fertility problems so it can be done just dont give up!!


Sending loads of baby dust to you ladies 
xxxx


----------



## MissAma

grneyednurse said:


> Hubby has what we think is secondary hypogonadism (pituitary prolly-just had an MRI) and has had 1 SA: 50,000 or 1-2 sperm seen per microscopic field.

A girl after my own heart! The Viking veto-ed my buying a microscope I fear :haha:



grneyednurse said:


> Click around and you will find specific stats. It does say if woman has no problems and is under 35 and only problem is male factor (if she had children before this is even better) it's the most successful category to be in.

YAY for us! Sarcasm aside we are the most successful category on paper!:thumbup:



FBbaby said:


> I have been wanting to ask a question for a couple of days now, I hope it is ok. How has finding out about your OH problem affected you ttc? We found out last Friday

First off, you just found out, my heart goes out to you, I remember the shock, the pain, the rage, all the stages of grief really. 

There was no more TTC I was mad!

I was mad at destiny, mad at the odds, mad at the science and even mad at the Viking for a while there. And then I sprung into action, researched all I could, took out a huge loan and booked us in a go for a private ICSI round abroad. That was my answer to dealing with the emotional pain of finding out we're infertile. And while I deplore the impulse-based financial decision I am glad it happened, it accomplished several things: A. let me know where ARE Clives somewhere trapped inside and we must keep fighting and B. let me relax after a long while and let us be a couple again, love making included and TTC like mad excluded.

Give it some time till it sinks in though, keep going this cycle if you must but then sit down, breath in and establish some goals, some deadlines, some options. You'll feel better I think. 



Leila Fae said:


> My diabetic consultant has asked me to get the GP to test my thyroid function but I'm not sure if that's because of the diabetes or because of the TTC. Either way, it'll be good to know.

When you get that checked make sure you get the right test not the run-of-the-mill one GPs recommend. Check https://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ as they have a list of what tests are needed and if you can't find them PM me, I did the leg work already and managed to get some of those online specialists to give me a list of what is needed and will be happy to send it to you.

Also ladies, I've updated the overall list. Whoa, who knew there are so many of us!

Chocci - when you are ready for it let me know so that I can put Success Story next to your name!


----------



## tickledpink

Another one here with a male factor issue.

Hubby had an operation a couple of years ago for something called 'varicocele'... something to do with the veins in the scrotum that can effect sperm structure, function and production. It didn't make a single bit of difference, infact it's getting worse.

Back in August 2009 it was
Count 9.1mil
Motility 34%
Morphology 8%

December 2009
Count 2.5
Motility 12%
Morphology - insufficient sampe... 

They now seem to think that he has a low SC because of some strong medication he took as a teenager for bad acne.

Our consultant at the local hospital has sent us back to the local GP who has been asked to refer us for IVF through the NHS. So it's now back to the waiting game... It's taken us three years this month to get this far! :(


----------



## grneyednurse

Oh wow tickledpink..they do say that treating varicocele doesn't work. Was the med Accutane? I know about getting a diagnosis for male factor...it takes forever and usually there is little to do to correct any problems. My hubby has been through an SA, labs, an MRI and fianlly the I.M HCG. 2 weeks into it, but I wish we had the money to just jump into the ICSI, but we have no choice other than to pursue this for now until we have the money. It is such a tough road and sometimes makes me wonder if God exists at times.


----------



## suzie7

Hey ladies, it's good to read these. I sympathize with all of you and know exactly how you feel.

How long should one wait until going down the IVF/ICSI road? My DH "wants a chance to improve" but if I'm being realistic, the chancesof us naturally increasing his count into the "normal" range are low.

The FS told us that "technically speaking we are not yet infertile because we haven't been trying for a year. Your both still fertile. You ovulate and he has sperm so it CAN happen. There's just a small chance it will happen."

is that suppose to be hopeful?!


----------



## FBbaby

Thank you everyone for your comments on ttc. I have read so many things on the internet, but one site that caught my attention was a forum where two sperm specialists (can't remember their official medical title!) answered anyone's question. 

From their point of view, a bad sperm sample is rarely as bad as what fertility specialists makes them to be and that especially in relation to morphology, so even though I don't want my hopes raised falsy, it has encouraged me in the decision to definitely continue ttc, not actively, but at last insuring bding every 2 days during the fertile week. 

suzie, sorry if you've said already but has your OH tested twice? It certainly would seem that results can change quite significantly when done two-three months apart. The specialist on the forum said that icsi should never be suggested after a second SA has confirmed the first. The decision whether to rush to go via the icsi route depends on funding age, and desperation to become a parent asap. I'm 39 so if 2nd test comes back no better, even though it is such that it isn't impossible to fall pg (I actually did once), there is no point to wait if we consider going that route.


----------



## tickledpink

grneyednurse said:


> Oh wow tickledpink..they do say that treating varicocele doesn't work. Was the med Accutane? I know about getting a diagnosis for male factor...it takes forever and usually there is little to do to correct any problems. My hubby has been through an SA, labs, an MRI and fianlly the I.M HCG. 2 weeks into it, but I wish we had the money to just jump into the ICSI, but we have no choice other than to pursue this for now until we have the money. It is such a tough road and sometimes makes me wonder if God exists at times.

Hubby can't remember the name of the med. We're talking 25 years ago :laugh2: My parents have offered to pay for us to go privately but we've waited this long, a few more months won't hurt... plus I need to come off anti-depressants before we can start. :shy: Bloomin typical. But if they'd just pulled their finger out months ago, I would need the meds :growlmad:


----------



## DragonMummy

We have only had one SA and have been asked to go back for another go as morphology came back only 6%. But I have him on a little regime to try and help that. Am hoping he just cracked out a bad wristful on that day!


----------



## chocci

MissAma said:


> Chocci - when you are ready for it let me know so that I can put Success Story next to your name!

Still early days yet mate hehe, still papping my pants for scan, wont seem real until then, for now just a simple bfp will do :)

Hey it was second icsi not third.... i explained in your journal though :) 

For me girls i was at first slightly grateful to find out the problem was not me, i think everyone feels like that, then i realised it was still a problem so didnt really matter who it was with. 

I have gone from feeling sorry for my ikkle hubby to feeling mad at him for having problems which make us have to go through this, to thinking i dont care how we get our baby, if ICSi is the way then at least i have learned a hell of a lot more throughout this process and us girls know and WILL know how INCREDIBLE even managing to get pregnat is.

I started this process so neive and have learned so much not only about IVF / ICSI but about me, about how i deal with things and about other people too, some good some bad. People can be very compasionate and I have found the least likely people have been very supportive and upsettingly some people in my life have shown themmselves to be incredibily selfish. I think thats one BIG lesson i have learned... many people are very wrapped in their own worlds.

To be honest this process opens our eyes to the world and makes us stronger, it's not something i would wish on anyone BUT there are some bonuses.......WE will ALL LOVE our children and be eternally grateful for them when we get them, i am not sure people who dont have to go on this horrible infertility journey will have quite the same vision and experience of parenthood as us girls WILL have!!!

I have learned never give up, it WILL happen, just takes some of us that little bit longer than others!!! 

xxx


----------



## chocci

Oh mate and you missed the zoo out of Idiopathic Oligoastheno*ZOO*spermia for my hubby, not sure why it has the zoo in it cos i thought that ment none but hey thats what the doctor said hahahahaha.... makes no odds i suppose Idiopathic Oligoasthenozoospermia simply means SHITE sperm, dont know why they dont just say that haha :)


----------



## hopesforababy

AMEN Chocci!! None of us will take our children for granted, and we will be thankful for 2am feedings and poopy diapers. While it won't be easy, we will all know that we worked hard to get to that point and be happy to be there.

Baby dust to all!!


----------



## lady blush

Hi can i join the list please. we have been LTTTC for nearly 6 years with male factor DH has low sperm morphology (7%) currently awaiting for IVF on the NHS. i have PCOS to top it all off.


----------



## grneyednurse

What I don't understand about male factor infertility is the fact that most of it is idiopathic in origin and few treatments available that actually work...meaning doctors don't know why this happens in most cases! It is so frustrating! I mean when a woman has problems usually there are treatment options! I am so hoping my hubby's HCG injections help, but am not depending on it! I hope I made sense as I am sooo tired tonight, but am determined to post anyway!


----------



## chocci

hey grneyednurse, i think it is idopathic simply becasue there has been little investigation into male infertility over hte years....us poor women always got the blame, even if they could not prove the infertility and it was classed as "unexplained" we still got the blame..... however things are changing, there is a lot more research these days, they are attributing more and more cases of unexplained infertility to male factor, they are identifying that sperm is actually causing far more problems than thye first thought, i.e. a man can have 120mil sperm and be completely infertile but another man can have 8 mil and have 4 kids..... they now realise they have a lot to learn, i think over the next few years there will be great discoveries regarding male factor problems :)


----------



## suzie7

FBbaby said:


> From their point of view, a bad sperm sample is rarely as bad as what fertility specialists makes them to be and that especially in relation to morphology, so even though I don't want my hopes raised falsy, it has encouraged me in the decision to definitely continue ttc, not actively, but at last insuring bding every 2 days during the fertile week.
> 
> suzie, sorry if you've said already but has your OH tested twice? It certainly would seem that results can change quite significantly when done two-three months apart. The specialist on the forum said that icsi should never be suggested after a second SA has confirmed the first. The decision whether to rush to go via the icsi route depends on funding age, and desperation to become a parent asap. I'm 39 so if 2nd test comes back no better, even though it is such that it isn't impossible to fall pg (I actually did once), there is no point to wait if we consider going that route.

this is so encouraging to hear!!! Thank you! We have only had 1 SA done and are suppose to have another this week. We're thinking of postponing though because prior to the 1st analysis, we were on vacation over Xmas and took lots of long steams and hot tubs. I'm thinking of waiting at least another month before the 2nd SA so he can properly replenish. It takes 3 months to create new sperm.

I am getting more hopeful. There are several girls on another forum who were getting ready for ICSI due to low count and conceived naturally. I think it will happen but it may just take some time.

Plus, I have read of several cases where men were able to naturally increase their count into the normal range. 

How many SA have you done?
PS-I'm on CD 21 too! No symptoms though!


----------



## FBbaby

Suzie, what was your OH results? My OH only had one SA, his count was on a low side, but not drastic, 18M, motility was good at 65%, especially since a least an hour elapsed before they tested, the concern is with the morphology at 4%. I read that anything over 5% is not alarming and that it can go up and down from one sample to another, so I tell myself it only takes a bit of an improvement and things won't look as bleak. 

When did your OH had his last one done? It would be better to wait 3 months to do it again, although our FS said two months. 
Yes, I am CD1, 7dpo I think. The only good thing about this is that I am so much more relaxed about the 2ww. I haven't lost complete hope, but knowing now that the chances are probably closer to 1% than 30% makes it so much easier not to symptoms spot. 

Chocci, your words and bfp as so inspiring. I can relate to everything you wrote. Remember when I commented on your thread about me thinking it was also unfair that couple when one partner has children already are not entitled to NHS funding, well, I certainly did think as I typed the words that it would be my case but here we are! 

grneyednurse, I too struggle to cope with not being able to know why my OH sperm isn't good. He is as healthy as a man can be. Not knowing is putting pressure on me because my instinct is to want him to not do anything that could be the cause, no more cycling and squash tournements, no more beer at all, no more jaccuzzis etc...., but this is his life, and even before we knew there was a problem, he'd told me that if there was one thing he could never do without it was his sport. I don't want to patronize him especially when there is no true evidence that quitting it all would help, but it is hard not to show my disapproval when he opens a beer.


----------



## suzie7

FBbaby
our total count was 21.6 million, 1.8 ml total, 12 million per ml (anything less than 20 mil per ml is abnormal), motility only 16.7% leaving us with only 3.6 total motile sperm.

Have you seen any improvement in your DH's count since changing diet/ other activities?

My husband is healthy as can be. I don't know what more we can do without completely sterilizing our lives (he did use to drink quite a bit of alcohol and coffee) and has since cut out all caffeine and cut back on alcohol dramatically (only has 2-3 glasses of red wine a week).


----------



## suzie7

Oh yeah- he had his last analysis about 4 weeks ago


----------



## reversal

Mummytofour said:


> My DH had a sperm count of only 2 million after his successful vaesectomy reversal in 1999 and we have 4 children, the first concieved only 3 months after the op!
> So there is hope ladies!!:thumbup:
> I now have high prolactin which is not helping but GP said DH's gun may not be as fully loaded as he thinks!!! LOL!!
> We assumed his count had improved due to conceiving naturally but as he smokes then maybe not as we haven't done the SA route yet.

hi my husband has an appointment on the 24th of feb to arrange his reversal yr story has gave me hope good luck


----------



## DragonMummy

lady blush said:


> Hi can i join the list please. we have been LTTTC for nearly 6 years with male factor DH has low sperm morphology (7%) currently awaiting for IVF on the NHS. i have PCOS to top it all off.

Same boat as me hun - we have pcos and low morphology issues too. xxx


----------



## ald

Wonder if anyone can answer a couple of question for me, my dh takes the Wellman conception tablets which have some MACA in them, is this enough Maca or should he be taking MACA tablets as well? 

Also this question may sound thick so I do apologise in advance but can't quite get it right in my head.......... my dh only had 10% motility, so will the 10% that are moving live as long sperm from a normal mans result, ie. up to 72 hours in fertile cm? Or will they die quicker? 

With motility problems, how often do you :sex:

Thank you xxx


----------



## MissAma

I can't help as we don't take anything to get better sperm -well apart for the usual vitamins, minerals and antioxidants regiment I have him on for general health purposes- but I'm sure someone else will come along with answers.


----------



## looknomore

DH has low count- 30 million/ml but worrying part is that motility is low 35% with grade a = b of 18% which my doc says is on the lower side for IUI. She has prescribed HCG injections for hubby for 4 weeks (one every week) to increase count and motility. Has anyone been thru anything similar. Wondering if this can help the sperm count?


----------



## suzie7

Your husband should take AT least 750 mg of MACA for it to be effective. Reco
mended dosage is 1500 mg - 3000 mg


----------



## suzie7

ALD, do not BD every day during your ovulation/fertile week. BD every other day. I am trying to BD every two days to give him more time to replenish and our doctor said only to BD "2 or 3 times during the fertile week."

Also, have your man stay erect for at least 30 minutes prior to the canon going off. This increases blood flow to the area and thus can increase count and motility. It's actually a little harder than it sounds- 30 minutes sometimes feels like a long time for me, personally.


----------



## MissAma

suzie7 said:


> ALD, do not BD every day during your ovulation/fertile week. BD every other day. I am trying to BD every two days to give him more time to replenish and our doctor said only to BD "2 or 3 times during the fertile week."
> 
> Also, have your man stay erect for at least 30 minutes prior to the canon going off. This increases blood flow to the area and thus can increase count and motility. It's actually a little harder than it sounds- 30 minutes sometimes feels like a long time for me, personally.

Not to be contrary but this about the 30 minutes is news to me and I've been around the Male Factor block once or twice :) While maybe motility could be improved strictly mechanically by the force of the ejaculation, there is NO way that the increased blood flow would increase count. The quantity of sperm that will be ejected has long been produced and it will not increase in 30 minutes in any significant fashion...


----------



## ald

MissAma said:


> suzie7 said:
> 
> 
> ALD, do not BD every day during your ovulation/fertile week. BD every other day. I am trying to BD every two days to give him more time to replenish and our doctor said only to BD "2 or 3 times during the fertile week."
> 
> Also, have your man stay erect for at least 30 minutes prior to the canon going off. This increases blood flow to the area and thus can increase count and motility. It's actually a little harder than it sounds- 30 minutes sometimes feels like a long time for me, personally.
> 
> Not to be contrary but this about the 30 minutes is news to me and I've been around the Male Factor block once or twice :) While maybe motility could be improved strictly mechanically by the force of the ejaculation, there is NO way that the increased blood flow would increase count. The quantity of sperm that will be ejected has long been produced and it will not increase in 30 minutes in any significant fashion...Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice, will be giving it a go. Haven't heard about the staying erect for 30 minutes before but will certainly try it - does seem a long time though lol. 

We don't have a problem with count and I understand that what is there is there and staying erect wont increase that, but it certainly makes sense about helping motility - just never though about it that way I guess!


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## FBbaby

Just a question for the expert? How much does the ratio count/motility/morphology matter?

For exemple, if you have not good morphology and motility but excellent count, does it make up for it a bit, ie, more of bad but also of the good. Similarly, if you have a not so good count and not so good morphology, but good motility, there is not so much out, but at least they do make it to the egg... I guess what I'm trying to fathom is whether all three have to be above a line to be 'normally' fertile.

I am trying to fight the I'll try everything in desperation. I did that with ttc and ended up taking things that messed up my body when in the end, I am perfectly fine. I have ordered fertileaid for man (which was supposedly dispatched last Monday but haven't received...), and I am trying to encourage OH to lower his alcohol intake (so far not doing too well!!), but putting pressure on him to stay erect for 30 mns is going too far. I have read enough about how stress can affect SAs, I am not going to put even more pressure on him!

Suzie, we've only done one SA so far, second one will be mid-April. I know whatever he is doing now won't have much affect by then, so might have to do a third one at some stage, but we will go along with this one as our 2nd appt with FS is 16 April.


----------



## suzie7

MissAma said:


> Not to be contrary but this about the 30 minutes is news to me and I've been around the Male Factor block once or twice :) While maybe motility could be improved strictly mechanically by the force of the ejaculation, there is NO way that the increased blood flow would increase count. The quantity of sperm that will be ejected has long been produced and it will not increase in 30 minutes in any significant fashion...

You're right, not count but helps motility. When I was doing some research online I found that the longer your partner is aroused it means the vas are bringing up sperm and activating them. In one S/A study it was shown this method on low count individuals cause approx 280% increase in amount of good motile sperm.

I will try to find out some more medical/scientific reasons why it may help. To me, it can't HURT.

Anyone else have any tricks? Does anyone know what the CHANCES are of conceiving naturally with low sperm count and motility?


----------



## grneyednurse

looknomore my hubby is taking the HCG injections and things are looking up already! Does your hubby have low FSH also?


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## FBbaby

grneyednurse said:


> looknomore my hubby is taking the HCG injections and things are looking up already! Does your hubby have low FSH also?


Is this normal practice to test for low fsh in male factor (or do any other tests)? Our FS went straight to talk about icsi after reading the results, which were not good, but not a complete disaster either. I understand that he would encourage it because of my age (39), but since we'd have to pay, if there are other things we can try to increase count, I'd rather try that first. I was the one to say that I thought we should wait for a second test before making a decision, which FS didn't contest at all, but I still think he should have said it himself. I have a feeling that if next results are still low, he won't suggest anything else, so I'm wondering whether I should then ask for any other tests.


----------



## mrs C

Hi. My DH just recently had his first SA and is was not good news at all: sperm count 100,000/ml, morphology 10%, motility 40%
We went to the Urologist on Monday who said this was nothing to be worried about! He is running labs and DH is supposed to have another SA in a month. 
I am trying to be hopeful as DH had a 103 F. temp 3 months ago, works very long hours, was wearing briefs, and uses a laptop, oh yeah and always has his legs crossed. I was diagnosed with polycystic ovaries in Dec.


----------



## hopesforababy

I think it has to do with why there may be low count or poor morphology, etc. For unknown reasons, I think vitamins/hormones may help. In my case, DH has one testicle and it's been radiated, and vitamins aren't going to help. My OB/gyn tried 2 IUI's, but my endocrinologist told us that ICSI was our only shot. He said he wasn't surprised that the IUI's didn't work with DH's numbers being so low.
So I think (and it's just my opinion) that vitamins may help, but not in all situations.
As far as chances of conceiving naturally with male factor........... I figured our chance to be less than 1%. If a normal couple has a 20-30% chance each month with 40 million sperm, then your chances go less than that with reduced count. But I'm no doctor, it's just my opinion.


----------



## grneyednurse

FBbaby said:


> grneyednurse said:
> 
> 
> looknomore my hubby is taking the HCG injections and things are looking up already! Does your hubby have low FSH also?
> 
> 
> Is this normal practice to test for low fsh in male factor (or do any other tests)? Our FS went straight to talk about icsi after reading the results, which were not good, but not a complete disaster either. I understand that he would encourage it because of my age (39), but since we'd have to pay, if there are other things we can try to increase count, I'd rather try that first. I was the one to say that I thought we should wait for a second test before making a decision, which FS didn't contest at all, but I still think he should have said it himself. I have a feeling that if next results are still low, he won't suggest anything else, so I'm wondering whether I should then ask for any other tests.Click to expand...

At 39, you probably don't have time to mess around with correcting your hubby's problem and that is why they probably pushed you straight to ICSI. I myself would go straight for it at 35 if I ahd the money, but we are sticking with this for now.
It is good practice for a doctor to test your husband anyway to fix any problems, but most male factor problems aren't going to be deadly anyhow UNLESS he does have low FSH/LH, etc as this would indicate a problem in the pituitary (tumors, etc) and not the testes and therefore something that could affect other things besides a man's fertility, hence the MRI they did on my husband (normal). 
Most infertility in men is idiopathic (no known cause) and also doesn't have a cure either, sadly. In my husbands case, his hormones were all low and so hence the HCG shots to give his body what it is not producing for whatever reason (FSH/LH). We have yet to see if it works. What I have read online it usually does make counts higher in men with low FSH...some studies have shown small improvements and others huge improvements and some no change-so it is all up in the air. A man cannot take HCG injections if his FSH/LH are normal or high as this would only create bigger problems and a man cannot take HCG indefinitely either as you all know what happens to men who bodybuild and take HCG ("steroids")-their testes shrink and their hormones dwindle and they become infertile.


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## FBbaby

thanks grneyednursed for taking the time to go over this. I know you are right about going straight for icsi...if only it was free, or more like, if only you were guaranteed a baby for your money! Anyway, I think it is the route we will take, just because I don't think I could live with myself not having at least tried whatever the financial impact.


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## grneyednurse

I know...the financial impact will be just nuts and I don't even know when I will have the money. I absolutely hate holding off life until this happens, but it isn't something I can wait like 5 or 10 years to do. If I were 25 (oh if only) I would have 10 years to save money and dawdle around with our time if I so choose, but nope, 35 and just starting to go downhill fertility-wise (according to statistics) and cannot afford to wait too long...sigh


----------



## MissAma

It's mad how infertility forces us to feel older than we normally would... This continous race against the biological clock is maddening. Making a baby is for most people a time in their lives when they reaffirm their committment and love, and mature deciding to be a family not a time they are forced to contemplate their mortality every time they think of it.


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## Blue12

MissAma I agree with you so much about how this is supposed to be a time of positive affirmations - and instead we feel every short coming and fault more intensly.


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## Nightnurse

My DH also has low fertility issues ,just waiting on an appointment to see what is the next step


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## hopesforababy

I thought DH and I were doing the smart thing by waiting a couple of years into our marriage to start trying for a baby. Be responsible, save up a little money. Never did I think I would have to save up this much money! I keep thinking of the "What's if's." Unfortunately life doesn't come with a crystal ball for us!
Fingers crossed for everyone that whatever treatment option you are using is the one that works!


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## grneyednurse

I know MissAma about what you said...sad eh? Wish this part of our lives was finished and we had our babies. And wo to your siggy weight loss pics! Good F'ing job! I need to go walking and watch what I eat...why can't I just get started? uugghhh


----------



## suzie7

Anyone know of anyone who got prego naturally DESPITE low count and low motility? Ladies, exactly how optimistic should I be? Let's be realistic here- it's better than having your hopes crushed month after month. What are the chances we can conceive like a 'normal' couple?
Count- 12 mil
moltility- 17%

hope we all can overcome these struggles but it's so great to know you're not the only one out there.


----------



## grneyednurse

I had Dr. Silber's (one of the docs who helped pioneer IVF) book and the exact stats I don't remember, but it went something like this: with counts 10-20 million 90% eventually gets pregnant within 2 years if she has no problems herself of course. And it is like 90% after 8 years with under 5 million. Sooooo after reading that I was hopeful, but I am in the extreme section with under 1 million! I think that is changing though with meds.


----------



## grneyednurse

This book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Get-Pregnant-New-Technology/dp/0446674052


----------



## FBbaby

that's interesting, thanks again grneyednurse. Do you know though it these statistics take into account other issues, motility and moprhology? Probably not.

In light of all what finding out we had MI factor has meant to us, the hardest thing to come to term with in our case is that I did manage to fall pregnant first cycle ttc. I am torn apart between telling myself that it did happen so easily, it is very likely that it will happen again, and telling myself that this was a complete coincidental miracle. Then of course, there is not knowing whether the miscarriage was related to it or not....


----------



## DillyC

ooh...just noticed this thread.....

Count me in

OH: 1st SA count 1m (although motility and morphology ok for them!)
2nd SA Embryologist wouldn't even put a number on it....and said ONLY option is ICSI, so clearly worse than the first one!! Just don't know why,have been told poss due to the fact he had umbilical hernia repair aged 5? 

Ho Humm ... FS appt in May, so will get the word from the horses mouth then!


----------



## zowiey

Hi, 

I was just wondering if I could also join? Just found out hubby has high content of abnormal sperm, and also on the low side. I'm feeling so very lost at the moment and would like to get to know other ladies in the same position, we have been told IUI is our next option, but i need to get my bmi down first.

xxxx


----------



## grneyednurse

FBbaby said:


> that's interesting, thanks again grneyednurse. Do you know though it these statistics take into account other issues, motility and moprhology? Probably not.
> 
> In light of all what finding out we had MI factor has meant to us, the hardest thing to come to term with in our case is that I did manage to fall pregnant first cycle ttc. I am torn apart between telling myself that it did happen so easily, it is very likely that it will happen again, and telling myself that this was a complete coincidental miracle. Then of course, there is not knowing whether the miscarriage was related to it or not....

The doctor in this book said that morphology and motility are less important than count I forget why....I think they fluctuate more than a mans average count I think. The book is worth getting as it goes over all aspects of fertility, conception, infertility in detail. A must read for anyone going through infertility or even TTC! I read it cover to cover and the section on male factor over and over!


----------



## MissAma

DillyC said:


> ooh...just noticed this thread.....
> 
> Count me in
> 
> OH: 1st SA count 1m (although motility and morphology ok for them!)
> 2nd SA Embryologist wouldn't even put a number on it....and said ONLY option is ICSI, so clearly worse than the first one!! Just don't know why,have been told poss due to the fact he had umbilical hernia repair aged 5?
> 
> Ho Humm ... FS appt in May, so will get the word from the horses mouth then!

Hey there! *wave*



zowiey said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was just wondering if I could also join? Just found out hubby has high content of abnormal sperm, and also on the low side. I'm feeling so very lost at the moment and would like to get to know other ladies in the same position, we have been told IUI is our next option, but i need to get my bmi down first.
> 
> xxxx

Absolutely you can join! We sure know what you are going through!

How low did they say your BMI had to be?


----------



## nichub83

Dear mummytofour i have just read that your DH had a vr and you had 4 children after this, thats really lovely to hear, my DH has his first SA after his reversal in a couple of weeks, i'm not sure what the normal amount of sperm is? I've also got pcos however this is quite well managed so i'm just hoping for good results from SA really and its gives me hope knowing you had 4 children after your vr! X


----------



## grneyednurse

Aaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhh I just erased the actual stats as I found them! Pisses me off how a flick of a finger can erase 10 min of work typing! If anyone is interested...I will type it again....sigh


----------



## BigFoot1980

grneyednurse said:


> Aaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhh I just erased the actual stats as I found them! Pisses me off how a flick of a finger can erase 10 min of work typing! If anyone is interested...I will type it again....sigh

Yes Please!!!:flower:


----------



## zowiey

Hi Miss Ama!

I have to get it to 29, its currently 35 :blush: The GP was actually quite rude, as she had assumed the problem would be me, but all my results came back fine, but I am back to weight watchers, and now have the next step is down to me. We can't do any more until I loose weight. 

Well done on your massive weight loss! Would you recommend the cambridge diet? Im currently doing weight watchers, but want to loose the weight now!! Which is stupid I know!!

xxx


----------



## Mummytofour

Hiya Nichub83 gosh I remember that feeling so welll, waiting on the app to hear DH first SA results!
I can remember sitting there and the consultant saying, "yes it has been successful..." , after that point DH and I just sat grinning at each other like complete morons!!!!
The consultant did say his count however was very low at only 2 million which we both said to him "it only takes one yes?!"LOL!!!:happydance:

His VR was at the end of June and I got my first BFP in September that same year!
The worst bit was that we didn't tell anyone he was going for a VR and the day he came out of hospital, his family came over and he had to go and chop wood at the bottom of the fields with his man bits in a sling!!!:blush::haha:

Good Luck with your SA and don't give up hope!:hugs:
My last 3 kids were also all concieved not only after his VR but also after my DH had undergone major surgery for bowel cancer, chemo and radiotherapy for over 6 months!
We had his semen frozen prior to his chemo in case he went infertile, but after conceiving again, he donated it instead to infertile couples.:thumbup:


----------



## MissAma

zowiey said:


> Would you recommend the cambridge diet? Im currently doing weight watchers, but want to loose the weight now!! Which is stupid I know!!
> 
> xxx

Not in all situations or for everyone but in your situation -e.g. not that much to lose so not too extensive of period to be on it- then I would definitely. It is not easy and then maintaining is very very difficult but I would guess you'd be at the necessary weight in 2 months or so depending on how your body responds. 

In other words and to sum up my view on weight loss - one can do low calories -WW being low and Cambridge being Very Low- or, preferably low carb. They both work. The latter is a lifestyle and the healthier alternative without a doubt and the calorie restriction works more as a quick fix but I have met successful maintainers from all methods. Just pick something that fits your personality (e.g. if you're a counter then WW, if you are impatient and need results to keep motivated then Cambridge and if you are in it for your overall health and in order to forever change and stay slim then low carb (Protein Power, Atkins, LCHF, SouthBeach, etc)

They are rude about weight. After our failed IVF, before we got on the public funded list we nearly had another paid go but we abandoned that when the consultant took one look at me and said "well at your BMI (it was nearly 50 to be fair) you can never have IVF or have a baby, you are the problem" when we had no bloody sperm, all my tests were fine and we had just had IVF. It is ridiculous and the BMI is a silly measure -for instance I had to jump back aboard the shakes train over the past week to bring it under 25 for the appointment we have on Monday- but it is as it is and we have to play their game.

Thanks for the kind words on my loss too!


----------



## nichub83

hi again mummytofour, sounds like you've had everything to deal with, im so pleased everything has worked out for you though, we didnt tell anyone when DH had his VR until afterwards either!! ive got my fingers crossed it has worked anyway im currently on my 2ww at the mo!!!! i just hate the feeling of getting my hopes up to be dissapointed!!!


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## grneyednurse

Yes MissAma you are looking good! I swear a lot of docs just jump on the "you are fat and therefore that is your problem and nothing else" train rather quickly! 

I still need to post those stats from the book...I was more optimistic than the actual study, but the study is also a lot more optimistic than your doctor will ever be with you! Once I get my head on straight I will post (just worked 3- 12.5 hour shifts and I slept all day after a CPR class...I am bushed!

I never went for my own tests as far as progesterone goes as I was working, but I am 10DPO and my tummy is bloated and fussy today...waiting for AF tomorrow or the next day or so...still giving hubby his meds.


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## ANGEL223

Hey all, add me to the list as well Low count and motility here. Very lacking on detail as we have a consultant and GP of few words!


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## MummyIwanabe

We are on an ICSI journey starting in April hopefully due to sperm morphology of 2%. Waiting for my tests to come back but I'm hoping I'm ok x


----------



## beauty

MummyIwanabe said:


> We are on an ICSI journey starting in April hopefully due to sperm morphology of 2%. Waiting for my tests to come back but I'm hoping I'm ok x

Same here were doing the ICIS starting april, well we shall get referred to the hospital for the ivf tests in april.. crap PCT dont have funding till April so wont even refer us till then!! :growlmad:


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## suzie7

Ladies, it's been two months since DH's last SA. Since that last test, he changed his diet and starting taking a variety of vitamins and herbs. I'm thrilled to report that his total motile count tripled! Up from 3.6 million to 14 million!
I am so proud of him.
We might try for an IUI now. What do you think?


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## BigFoot1980

Wonderful news suzie! :happydance:

Gives us all hope! U must be so excited! Sorry if have asked before but what vitamins was he on? Ur definitely good for IUI now I think.

:hugs:


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## MummyIwanabe

Congrats suzie this is good news! :) xx


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## Leila Fae

Good news! :flower:


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## suzie7

BigFoot1980 said:


> Wonderful news suzie! :happydance:
> 
> Gives us all hope! U must be so excited! Sorry if have asked before but what vitamins was he on? Ur definitely good for IUI now I think.
> 
> :hugs:

Thanks! It was a big bump of hope for me! :happydance: I hope we can get our BFP soon. 

He is on a LOT of vitamins. They are:
1 men's multi vitamin
1 g Vit C
Vit E
Zinc
Ginseng (for low motility)
L'Arginine 
L'Taurine 
Carnitine
Maca - about 1500 mg a day or 3 pills
Co Q 10
Horny Goat Weed (to increase libido even though he doesn't really need it)

Yes, I put them in an old person's weekly medicine storage container. :haha: But, at least it makes it easier for him to take. 

I've heard the success rates for IUI aren't great, even though, everything has checked out OK with me thus far. We're meeting with our male infertility specialist Monday. I wonder if we should just go straight to ICSI. Been TTC for 9 months now. Do you all think I should give it more time naturally or do IUI or ICSI?

Any opinion is greatly appreciated.

Anyone have success story with male factor and IUI?


----------



## BigFoot1980

Its really hard to know what would be better. There are some success stories with IUI and male factor but again since the success rate is not that great I am not so sure. I guess it all depends on money situation. If there are no money issues then I would think a few IUI's and then go for ICSI. 

How about plain IVF? If ur doctor says u can do IUI then u can also do IVF. 

Nine months is not that long(I know it must feel like forever) and you may even be able to conceive naturally. You could wait a few months and then go for treatment as well. It all depends on how you feel I guess. 

Good luck Hun with what ever u decide!
:hugs:


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## kaykaysmom

My dh has low motilty 36% they said normal would be 40% other than that his numbers are in the normal range...we should be trying iui within the next few months


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## Gracy 004

hi ladies, well i have dropped in for a bit of a sob... DH has just gone to work and i didnt want him to see me having a good old cry:cry:We just had our appointment with FS and got dh's results back, they were really bad, count 4.9 million, motility 5%, morphology 2%. The specialist said there really is no way except ICSI, chances of a natural conception next to nothing. So we are going down this route, probably starting our first icsi cycle mid may. I just feel like i am in some sort of bad dream. DH is upset too, but mainly because he is worried about me. DH wants a baby dont get me wrong but he also says he will be happy with life either way and i know he is doing all this fertility stuff for me. It seems a bit ironic that i am the one who desperately wants a baby and he is the one with the fertility problems. I could never say this stuff to him because i know its not in his control but are there any ladies out there who know how this feels and how do you cope with it? Sorry for the rant, i am just in shock feel like screaming. The only good thing to come of this is that we only waited 6 months before getting investigated. I was getting a bit of crap from my friends saying i was being too obsessive and it is normal to take a year - luckily i didnt listen to them


----------



## peartree

Hi Gracy,

We've just gone through our first cycle of ICSI. Like you, we were devastated to find out that DH had a low count (even lower than yours at 1million/ml) and that our chances of conceiving naturally were next to nothing. We went through all the feelings, sadness, anger, bitterness, despair, but eventually, you come to accept that if you want your own children enough, you will do whatever it takes.

Don't get me wrong, it's not an easy road, and even during the cycle, there were tears - feeling sorry for myself, anger at his mother, bitterness that we have to do this when others have it so easy and even accidentally. 

DH feels guilty, like he's let me down, and also feelings of inadequacy and of being 'less man' - I think that's pretty normal, so I guess you just to be there for each other and pull each other through this. 

All the best, Gracy - I hope your TTC journey will be short and sweet. :hugs:


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## Gracy 004

Thanks peartree. I am so impatient! if we have to do this, i want to do it now, not in may! It just seems like there is so many steps involved, from the initial testing, to EC, then waiting to see how many make it, then see if it all works, hmmm i think i am going to have to learn some patience and probably some coping skills... So it looks like you are just about due for testing? I really wish you all the best :hugs: I guess the TWW after IVF is a million times worse than the usual TWW?


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## ACLIO

Gracy 004 said:


> hi ladies, well i have dropped in for a bit of a sob... DH has just gone to work and i didnt want him to see me having a good old cry:cry:We just had our appointment with FS and got dh's results back, they were really bad, count 4.9 million, motility 5%, morphology 2%. The specialist said there really is no way except ICSI, chances of a natural conception next to nothing. So we are going down this route, probably starting our first icsi cycle mid may. I just feel like i am in some sort of bad dream. DH is upset too, but mainly because he is worried about me. DH wants a baby dont get me wrong but he also says he will be happy with life either way and i know he is doing all this fertility stuff for me. It seems a bit ironic that i am the one who desperately wants a baby and he is the one with the fertility problems. I could never say this stuff to him because i know its not in his control but are there any ladies out there who know how this feels and how do you cope with it? Sorry for the rant, i am just in shock feel like screaming. The only good thing to come of this is that we only waited 6 months before getting investigated. I was getting a bit of crap from my friends saying i was being too obsessive and it is normal to take a year - luckily i didnt listen to them

Gracy - We are in the same boat. We have been refered for ICSI we have our appointment for next month. I have PCOS and DH has a low count but I don't know how low. The FS just said we have 3 options ICSI, Donor or adoption!! DH was devastated, he took it really hard. The FS was really off with my DH and basically destroyed him. 

We might be going through ICSI at the same time, it would be great to have a ICSI buddy :flower:

Have you looked into acupuncture. DH and I are going to book an appointment with a Chinese Doctor this week

xx


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## MummyIwanabe

i wish you all the best with your ICSI journey. I'm due to start this - meds in mid april, EC in may and its been a long hard road, feels like forever till may. OH has low morphology so this is why we're doing this. 

Aclio that's awful the FS with really off with ur DH, are you nhs or private? if that's private then that's not good! 

Gracy - try and ignore your friends, good job you didn't listen and friends can often be ignorant and not understand. We've had the same old chestnuts "it'll happen when it happens" "if you have to wait a while its not the end of the world" bla bla bla all being said while they are expecting!! 

We've not told our friends or anyone about treatment apart from my parents. Think it will stay that way too!! xx


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## peartree

Gracy 004 said:


> Thanks peartree. I am so impatient! if we have to do this, i want to do it now, not in may! It just seems like there is so many steps involved, from the initial testing, to EC, then waiting to see how many make it, then see if it all works, hmmm i think i am going to have to learn some patience and probably some coping skills... So it looks like you are just about due for testing? I really wish you all the best :hugs: I guess the TWW after IVF is a million times worse than the usual TWW?

To be honest, once the tests and cycle is underway, the time just flies by - injections, scans, egg collection, transfer - it's just flown by for me. 

I'm being pragmatic about things and not letting it get to me. Filling my days doing things I enjoy, and most of time, I forget I'm waiting on the most important news of my life so far. :hugs:


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## MummyIwanabe

I hope my time goes quickly too! I think once I start on day 19 which should be around 16/17 April I think time will go quickly its just the build up to it!!

Good luck peartree, when will u find out? xxx


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## peartree

I have a blood test on 1st April. I might test on the morning of that day, if only to save myself the trip down to the hospital if I get a BFN. Don't think I'll do it before, in case I start obsessing and become googleholic.


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## MummyIwanabe

hehe its so hard I bet to stay strong! haha googleholic that's a good en! good luck peartree!!! :)


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## Gracy 004

Hi aclio, maybe we will be icsi partners, lets hope so! DH today is really down, i think the reality of the situation has hit him. We keep looking to each other to make each other feel better and its not working. Today it all seems a bit surreal, i am not so emotional today just keep reminding myself this IS actually happening to us, i wonder how long this calm will last. I havent thought about acupuncture because we are doing our ICSI privately (only way in australia) and i dont even know where we are going to get the money for it from, especially not in 7 weeks time... so i wont be spending any extra on alternative therapies :nope:


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## Gracy 004

actually just a quick question to put out there.... Do you guys still keep trying for a natural even though you know its not going to happen? Its just you hear stories all the time.... Does anyone get pregnant with such a low count?


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## peartree

We kept trying, even right up to the cycle during down regulation. There was always some hope, because as everyone keeps saying - it only takes one. Just that the odds of that ONE making it there is slim.

I think for DH, it helped that we didn't give up hope. If we gave up hope of doing it naturally, I felt that it was like we were giving up on him. So mentally for him, it was good to continue as we did.


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## ACLIO

Gracy 004 - After we found out the car ride home was silent. We got home and both broke down on each other. DH had a chat with his dad which I think helped and I spoke with my dad the following day. I told my dad that DH thought I'd be better off with someone else and that he wouldn't blame me if I wanted to leave him. My dad was a really good shoulder to cry on he said if I need to let some anger out or just have a cry then he was there for me. He said DH would be having a huge confidence knock and I would have to be the strong one till he got his head round it all. We are still trying naturally but it did take a few days for DH to want to.


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## Gracy 004

I'm sorry aclio, when did you find out? Dh is the same - he really has had the wind knocked out of him and he said a lot of things too, like am i gonna leave him and he feels responsible for causing me all this pain. man what a nightmare. I think you are right though, your dads advice is good, i will have to try and be the strong one for now (even though i am devastated), because when we start taking all these drugs for the icsi i will want him to be strong for me. It helps to write on here with people that really understand.


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## ACLIO

I guess I'm lucky in the way that the NHS over here I get 1 free shot at ICSI. I'm just keeping everything crossed that it works though. It's such a huge thing to go through. the ladies on here who have been through ICSI and IVF several times deserve medals.


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## MummyIwanabe

I think its so hard for both parties really. For us ladies we're having to have the procedures and its not nice. For our OH's they have all that upset, guilt frustration etc. My OH took it incredibly well although he doesn't like to discuss things and is a bit of an ostrich for that!! lol He felt better when he knew there was something we could do and that we could move forward. I think once we all get our baby then everything falls into the background and we and OH's will forget about all the heartache and upset.

BFP's to everyone soon!!!! :) xx


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## ACLIO

Well put MummyIwanabe 
DH felt better after he read about ICSI and there was an option. 

WE WILL GET OUR BFP LADIES XXXXXXX


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## FBbaby

We found out in February and it totally took us by surprise since I'd fallen pregnant first month ttc last May. Whilst the FS announced the news, I felt devastated for OH, but I think we were both in shock and took the news very pragmatically, asking a lot of questions etc... When we got in the car, we somehow got straight to the point and both agreed that we would want to do ICSI just because we both couldn't cope with the regrets if we didn't. I felt so reassured that that's what he wanted too. We separated after that as we had to go back to work and I broke down that afternoon. It really hit me then and I couldn't stop crying. I texted him right away to let him know that we were in it together, because I really didn't want him to think for a second that I considered it his problem rather than ours. I guess it is the reassurance I would have wanted if it had been the other way around. It didn't help that we found out a week before our baby would have been due. That evening, my OH was acting as if it was a totally normal day, but he did tell me that it would take him some time for the news to sink in. I did find it a bit frustrating as my way of dealing with it and getting some reassurance was to discuss how we felt about it, but I accepted that this is exactly what would make him anxious, so instead, I discussed it with close friends and came here! He didn't tell anyone and it was clear he had no intention to. He finally did last week as he spent time with a close friend of his who went through IVF with his wife and I think it really helped him. 

I don't think he felt less of a man or that he was letting me down, but I think it made it harder for him to grieve our loss. At times, I had some worries that he wasn't as much into ttc or icsi as I was because of his reluctancy to discuss it, but his actions have proven to me that he does care very much. He has made a genuine effort to cut down on alcohol (the only thing he could really do as he lives a very healthy lifestyle already), and even though I didn't make a fuss, he takes the vitamins have got him religiously. This week-end, I decided it was time to bring the subject up again and I was so pleased how he responded. He wrote down on his diary when he needed to do his second SA and the date we see the consultant again, and he agreed to go ahead with icsi in May/June, even though he mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he thought we should wait until after September (which I didn't agree with for various reasons and I started feeling a bit nervous that this suggestion might mean he was so sure about it after all). I went over what the full procedure involved and I was pleased that he was genuinely paying attention, asking questions and telling me that he would be there for me. 

I think it took him all this time for the reality to really sink it, ie. about 4 weeks more than me :laugh2: but I am really grateful for his total support for something that I know is a lot more distressing in itself for him than it is for me.

As for ttc, considering I did manage to fall pregnant once, we know that it is technically possible, even if against all odds so are continuing to do so and hoping it will happen naturally. In a way, it is easier to ttc knowing that the chances are low as you have less expectations to get a bfp, but at the same time, each time AF shows is a reminder of the situation.


----------



## ACLIO

FBbaby - It's such a roller coaster we have to deal with. It's good that your DH is getting his head round it all now. Is it just DH low count thats the problem?


----------



## FBbaby

It certainly is but like all challenges, it certainly makes you stronger. OH and I have been together for 15 months only, but we have already gone through together more than some do in a decade!

OH count was low, but not drastically at 18mil, and motility was okay at 65% but morphology is the concern at 4%. Nothing wrong has been identified with me but for my old age (39yo)! Consultant said it isn't impossible to fall pg (easy to say since it did happen!) but could take quite some time, and considering my age, time we don't have, hence recommending icsi and us still hoping each month that defeated the odds :laugh2:


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## Gracy 004

Hi ladies, today is the third day since we found out DH is infertile. The incredibly frustrating thing about today is that i am having the most obvious ovulation ever :growlmad: A tonne of ewcm, much more than ever before and i scanned myself (work as a sonographer so cant help it!), and i have a big fat juicy 2.3 cm follicle on the right ovary, Damn it! just sitting there wasted.Also i only had a HSG 1 week ago so this would have been the best month to go for it after a good flush out. Oh well i guess it cant hurt to have a :sex: but with motitily and morpholgy of 2% and a count of 5 million, who am i kidding:growlmad: :growlmad::growlmad:A good ol :sex:might make us feel a bit happier though, we have been so down since the news, i think we need a bit of quality time together. Sorry just had to get that off my chest


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## grneyednurse

Yea we keep plodding away as well.

I have a study with all the stats for getting prego natuarally with low counts that I must post here like I said I would...tomorrow...completely forgot. It does give one some hope! Some....be back tomorrow! I am going to sleep! Hugs to all of us dealing with male factor.


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## peartree

FBbaby - don't be too disheartened with the morphology - see blog below by a NY fertility specialist. It's just another take on things.

Sperm morphology mythology


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## HopeSprings

We found out last month that DH has 4% morphology. We were devastated as the RE acted like our only chance was IVF (which DH isn't ok with). We were devastated. I did find that article above to be helpful, but why is this area so misunderstood? Been searching for success stories without IVF ever since.


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## MummyIwanabe

I too read that article, it makes you think that maybe 2% isnt so bad after all but every consultant I've spoken to says it's not good. I have no idea whether they were really picky with my OH's sample and that made it a lower result. 

Hopesprings - there is success stories they just sometimes take a while to happen! :) xx


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## ACLIO

hopesprings - our FS was terrible with my DH he basically told me its ICSI, doner or adoption. He acted like DH was not in the room. DH was devastated when we got home. He's more positive now though cos he'd read up on everything and he realises its more common than he thought


----------



## suzie7

Do none of your DH's try Clomid?
We were told by our male infertility specialist to for DH to take 25 mg of clomid every single day and if I don't get pregnant in 6 months, then move on to ICSI. I'm trying to be hopeful...but it's so hard....


----------



## Love0411

What does clomid do for men? That is very interesting. 

My DH has high shifts from 0M to 13.6M Mobile Sperm and Motility from 5% to 33%. He's all over the place :shrug: We only had 2 SA's that showed morphology and they were both 0% normal. Our RE (reproductive endo) told us last year that we have a chance with IUI, but after reading some of your's SA results and that you are going to ISCI makes me wonder :shrug: 

We moved so I have to go to a new doctor which I have an appointment with on April 9. I had my DH start taking Fertiliaid for Men at the end of February so I hope it will help his stuff :blush: 

Good luck ladies!!!


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## Gracy 004

suzie7, just wondering if you know what your partners count etc was? I find the clomid thing interesting, but i think we got told no chance except icsi for us because dh's was just so bad? How long has he been on the clomid?


----------



## Gracy 004

we had some good news today (not really related to fertility but i am taking everything i can get right now!). DH and i have booked in for our icsi in may without actually having a clue how we are going to pay for it, were prob going to get a big credit card,then today out of the blue we both got these really big pay cheques as we are both working in the same hospital and apparently we had both been paid at the wrong hourly rate since septmber or october last year and they paid us the money in a lump sum! unbelievable, it is 2/3 of the money we need! :happydance: a very unexpected positive in what has otherwise been a terrible time, we are celebrating with a bottle of wine tonight


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## MummyIwanabe

Great news Gracy! it's like its a sign!!!! :) xx


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## MummyIwanabe

We were never advised DH should take clomid. That's interesting it was suggested to you as it wasn't to us!!

I was told IUI and IVF are not recommended for low morphology so we moved straight to ICSI. xxx


----------



## ACLIO

Clomid for men, I've never heard of that. Our FS told us ICSI was the only option there was no drugs etc that could be given to my DH


----------



## scarlet angel

Great news Gracy!! things happen for a reason ;)

We also have the male factor, but the fertility clinic is leaving it as it is as lifestyle etc is fine.


----------



## ACLIO

I've just got DH Maca through the post I've read that women can take it too. We'll give anything a shot. I've also read some where about a vit that's supposed to help DH volume but can not remember what its called


----------



## suzie7

hmmm, this is all so interesting to me. I wonder why no one has been advised for DH to take clomid? :shrug:

Our doctor says it is "not FDA approved but it's like candy for men. It won't do anything. The only reason it's not approved is because they don't have millions of dollars to approve it. It doesn't affect men like women" (which I hear it can make you go kind of quack!) 

He says in 75% of men it increases their count by tricking their brain into thinking it's not producing enough testosterone. In 20% it does nothing and in 5% it actually may cause the count to drop. We are hopeful though. He will take it for 6 months and get re-evaluated at 3 months. If his count gets into the normal range, then I'll get on clomid to up our chances. 

I get so confused on here if people are talking about their TOTAL count or their motile count PER ml. There is a big difference. 

1st SA
Total Count 21 million
Total Motile Sperm 3.6 million with 17% motility

8 weeks later after LOTS of vitamins
2nd SA
Total Count 36 million
Total Motile Sperm 14 million with 37% motility

I wish I could just hear ONE story of someone getting pregnant naturally with low sperm count..... why are we all ICSI bound?


----------



## Gracy 004

Hey Suzie, your partners count seems pretty good from what I have read. I am hopeful for you, how great would it be to not have to go through all this icsi! Would you be willing to share your vitamin regime? The increase was quite significant.
Peartree, how you going mate? Hanging in there?


----------



## ACLIO

Hi Ladies,
I though I'd share what my DH is taking and if anyone go recommend anything else that would be great:
Wellman vits
Zinc
Maca 900mg tablets x6 a day


----------



## MummyIwanabe

I've been told eye-q by the clinic is good for omega 3 and omega 6 oils although its expensive it was recommended for sperm and also 2 brazil nuts a day. They can have chocolate on! :)

My friend asked today if we'd had tests done and if they were all ok. No one knows we're having treatment as my OH doesn't want them to but I was desperate to tell her but felt I couldn't as OH asked me not to. 

Has anyone told their friends? My friend is due soon and other friends have just had baby so I don't think we'd gain much by telling them I just feel like I'd like to sometimes. Maybe its cos I'm not good at keeping secrets lol but they're like our family! xx


----------



## ACLIO

We've told our parents. We are seeing my DH best friend tomorrow night. They struggled for 3 years to get there BFP after 3 MC's. They did however get there BFP just before going for treatment. I think we might tell them so DH has someone to talk to and I get on really well with his wife. I know what you mean though cos its a tough one. In a way I don't want people knowing that we having to have help as I feel a failure and DH took it really bad when we found out aswel so I don't want it to effect his confidence. Deep down I don't think DH wants anyone knowing really


----------



## MummyIwanabe

None of our friends have had difficulty so I don't think they'd understand and although tempting I think DH is right and we should keep it to ourselves. i think he's also embarrassed so I think it's understandable and I can talk to my parents about it as they know so at least I have someone to talk too :) xxx


----------



## ACLIO

and you have us :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


----------



## MummyIwanabe

oh yes! And thank goodness for that! So glad I found this site! :hugs: :)


----------



## suzie7

I broke down and told a close friend the other weekend. I try to put on a happy face for DH's sake- he hates to see me upset but it's hard. As close as my friend and I are I still felt like "one of those unfortunate couples." I hate that. I wish someone would get a BFP naturally so we could be hopeful!!!!
I despise the thought of ICSI- expenses, all the appointments, etc.


----------



## Love0411

We told our parents and our closest friends....2 of whom actually offered to donate their sperm to us. We haven't gone that route yet, but are still hopeful we can have one on our own. We will see. Good luck ladies!


----------



## FBbaby

Okay, WHO recommends that the minimum level of what is 'normal', ie, allow a pregnancy assuming the woman is okay within 12 months (or something like that I assume) is a count of 20 mil, motility of 50% and morphology of 15% normal. So the way I look at this is that you need 10 mil of agile sperm of which 15% has to look normal, ie. a total of 1.5 mil good sperms surrounding the egg. How you get to this number doesn't matter (ie. high count, good morphology but low motility, or lowish count, but okay morphology and good motility). I have absolutely no idea whether there is any scientific standing to what I'm writing, but I guess it makes sense to me :laugh2: And then of course, there is the debate around the morphology percentage, thanks peartree for the link. 

If that the case Suzie, it is the motile count that matters with a minimum of 10 mil (assuming morphology is good) and your second SA is above the minimum 'normal results' Assuming there are no fertility problems with you, you should be able to get pregnant naturally, even if it takes a bit longer. 

I think the decision of whether to go for ICSI depends on how 'bad' the SA is, but also on the woman. In my case, taking into account my assumption and the 15% morphology, OH has about 1/3 of what is the minimum good sperm getting to the egg. Not great, but still possible. Unfortunately, my age means that the quality of my eggs is going down. Still, there would probably be a chance of getting pg if I stayed as I am and continued to ttc, but I won't, my eggs will get worse quickly, so ICSI is the best for our situation. 

There is indeed a big difference between your two results. It might be due to the vitamins and change of lifestyle, or it might be that your OH wasn't well for whichever reason when the sperm that was tested was created (ie, 6-8 weeks before the test). In your case, I would test again, ask for morphology results, but if the numbers come back as they are with morphology ok, I would wait to do icsi, assuming you are under 35ish as the odds are on your side that you will get your bfp with patience and perseverance :hugs:

Gracy, that's brilliant news, i bet it felt like a big weight of your shoulders.


----------



## suzie7

Thanks for the encouragement. We don't know our morphology as they said our "count was not high enough to perform a morphology test." weird! anyway, doctor says we probably have a 10-15% chance of getting preggo (nothing wrong with me that they can find).
geez louise though, it seems impossible. I wonder if I'll ever see that BFP. I'm going to try shooting egg whites up my ya-ya lady garden this month :headspin::laugh2: to see if that works (according to another BnB with low count, this worked for her). ohhhh the things we'll try for a BFP....
My Dh is on a multi, vit c, vit e, 1250 mg maca, horny goat weed, arginine, carnitine, taurine, ginseng, coq10

I take loads of EPO and Vit B6 (suppose to help create more EWM), and prenatal.
A full 3 months since our vitamin regiment will be May 1, my 30th birthday!


----------



## Gracy 004

Thanks suzie, i sort of asked dh about taking some vitamins and stuff but hes a bit against it, just wants to go for the icsi - he is so certain it will work i dont think failure has crossed his mind. I know what you mean about people thinking about you being a poor unfortunate couple. I have told a few people at work (mainly cos i have to keep pulling sickies), but not too many of them have kids so they dont give me that 'poor you' look. I havent told anyone why we need the icsi, i have said it is because of me with endometriosis because understandably dh doesnt want the whole world knowing. I will also shoot the next person who says to me 'why dont you adopt?' arggghhhhh! like its that bloody simple! just drop a quick phone call to some poor third world country and they will send us over a lovely bouncing baby.seriously people have NFI about how insensitive that is! Unless you are some sort of mega angelina jolie type star, it involves more money than i will ever have, years and years of red tape and heartache !:growlmad: Not sure what it is like from the other side of the world, but the australian goverment makes sure it is next to impossible. :growlmad:


----------



## Leila Fae

Both sets of parents know about DH's SA results. Only my parents know about our appointment with a specialist I think, unless DH has told his parents. I don't think they realise that we're having trouble conceiving. I don't talk to them about it. I'd go crazy if I didn't talk to my family about it though.


----------



## Gracy 004

Sorry for the rant yesterday ladies, was having a bad day :wacko:


----------



## MissAma

I'm up for trying anything and God knows I've tried most TTC things and beyond but what is the eggwhite stuff for? Lubrication? Case in which PreSeed is a FAR safer and better alternative....


----------



## BigFoot1980

Yes I am scared of infections from egg whites. But some people have used them successfully.


----------



## MummyIwanabe

I've read about that and was tempted myself but then thought sod it I'd rather use pre seed and take evening primorose to increase CM than risk that. Plus in our case it probably wouldn't have helped anyway!


----------



## Gracy 004

Hi everyone, if there is anything good to come out of this male factor thing its that symptom spotting is now a thing of the past and i dont convince myself that i am pregnant all the time. For instance at the moment i have really sore breasts and bad skin (post ovulation) which i have had every month leading up to now as well, but at least this time i am not reading anything into it, its kind of a relief to know ......

I just took my 2 gorgeous furbabies for a big long walk, its so good for the soul:thumbup:


----------



## Gracy 004

I really dont think the egg white thing is a good idea.... if you end up with infection it can be really serious and could hinder ttc even more.


----------



## MummyIwanabe

yeh I don't symptom spot anymore either!! haha! xx


----------



## ACLIO

Ladies - If your OH or DH are not on Maca then tell him to get it lol All I can say is I'm smiling alot since last nights :sex: my DH even said that the big O was alot different. We are putting it down to the new vits so hurry up and buy them lol :haha::haha:


----------



## MummyIwanabe

We're on them but I haven't noticed a difference for either of us! lol Been on them 2 months now xxx


----------



## wishful think

hi my dh has low sperm count and motility. He is taking vits and quit smoking. Hopefully next SA will show an improvement!!


----------



## le_annek

Hi wishful think do you mind if I ask you how low? My hubby has 24 ml with 30% motility and 30% morphology. has he been advised what vits to take? thanks :) xx


----------



## wishful think

hi le_annek, his sperm count is 2.7 ml (which is really terrible compared to your dh) and his motility is 11%. Our doc had no advice on any vitamins or tablets that might help so i went searching myself on the net!!! First just had him on zinc tabs until the vits arrived in the post - fertilaid for men!! I'm really hoping they make some sort of difference. My gyne also put me on clomid, even though i'm ovulating, she said one of my hormone levels were low but hopefully the more eggs released would give my dh swimmers more of a chance, so fingers xxx


----------



## le_annek

My hubby recently had a blood clot in his leg so going to phone the warfarin clinic to see what he can take. Fingers crossed for you :) have they offered you IUI ? x


----------



## wishful think

hey le_annek. IUI was mentioned by my doctor as a route we may have to go down but my gyne wants to give me three months on clomid before referring us to fertility clinic. It makes me so mad, just refer us now so at least we will be moving up a waiting list!!!!!!! Whats the story with the blood clot?? Sounds serious!!!


----------



## le_annek

He broke his leg in Jan when we had that awful weather. It came after his op he should be off the tablets soon as the clot has dispersed. We still haven't heard off the urologist yet (its only been a week) lol see what they have to say and will take it from there. Its really annoying though I feel like i've wasted a whole year of our lives if you know what I mean xx


----------



## wishful think

I know it does feel like a year has been wasted for me too. I kept going to my doc because i was having irregular cycles and think he was sick of me basically LOL. so he said he would get the 'ball rolling' if we were still trying at nine months. So exactly on the nineth month i was knocking on his door with dh. At least we are getting somewhere with tests now but i think you kinda have to be a little bit pushy. If i had of left it we would still be just waiting for a miracle!!! Think at my next gyne appointment i'm gonna insist on being referred further!! It's just coming up to the year mark now and it will be 15 months trying by the time im back with gyne. It's so annoying when they say "we will see u again in 3 months". Do they not realise how hard it is waiting all that time??? Next step for us is second SA (which again i had to push for with my doc only after my gyne said dh would have to go for 2nd SA) and then urologist in May. Sometimes i wish the docs involved would have more heart, if ya know what i mean??


----------



## le_annek

Totally with you on that. I nagged my doctor for blood work to see if I was ovulating she told me not to stress and it can take people over a year!! well its been a year May get me on a list ready in advance lol and if I do get pregnant b4 surely they can just take me off :) My hubbys doctor sort of felt bad I think he tried to say that 15% mortility was ok because first SA he had 140 million but second SA he had only 24million so referred straight away what he should of done in the bloody first place!! Let me know how you get on and I will do the same :) xx


----------



## suzie7

Cramping 5 dpo. Strange. Don't want to get my hopes up but I get them hope E.V.E.R.Y single month and always get AF.


----------



## Gracy 004

me too suzie, cant help myself !


----------



## MissAma

Been meaning to do this for some time but forgot and remembered as I was looking for something today. Here are some links to info I've been gathering. Hope it's useful for us MaleFactor Chicklettes:

https://www.maleinfertility.org/

https://www.maleinfertilityspecialist.com/

https://www.andrologyaustralia.org/docs/Factsheet_MI_07.pdf


----------



## ACLIO

ladies I've finally got a copy of DH results but I don't understand it at all HELP!!


----------



## MummyIwanabe

What were they?


----------



## ACLIO

volume 2.0
ph 8.0
viscosity normal
aggulation none
concentration 0.6
Motility 49
rapid progressive 1
slow progressive 48
non progressive 5
immotile 46
total or progressively motile sperm 0.6


----------



## auntiebee

Hi Ladies, well i really dont no how im feelin rite now as im really not sure what to think of our SA results that we just got today...
1stly i should say that i have been pregnant b4 years ago with a different partner (ended in mc, it wasnt planned) i have had blood tests done and everything seems fine. so i did have a feelin that dh may have low sperm count (dont no why i just had a feeling!!) We hav been trying 4 11 mths now wi no joy.

SA results are:-

Volume - 6.5ml
Sperm/ml - 15 million
Motility - 39%
Total Motile Sperm per sample - 37.7 million

Now i no that anything below 40 million motile sperm per sample is classed as low or abnormal but please can some1 give me some hope that getting pregnant naturally is still very possible with these numbers!!! do u think this explains why we haven't got pregnant b4 now?? just am unsure if a low sperm count means you mite never concieve and we should plan for IUI or IVF.

:dust: to us all


----------



## auntiebee

ACLIO said:


> volume 2.0
> ph 8.0
> viscosity normal
> aggulation none
> concentration 0.6
> Motility 49
> rapid progressive 1
> slow progressive 48
> non progressive 5
> immotile 46
> total or progressively motile sperm 0.6

hey there, we just got our SA results also.
Where is you count or concentration??? you need this!!!
You've stated total or progressively motile sperm 0.6!!!! what is this??? 0.6 what?? the total motile sperm is always in millions. do u think this is 0.6 million?? just checkin hon.


----------



## Deb111

Hi ladies

Can I join you?

TTC 18 months
My tests so far all ok
Told dh had NO sperm in either of his 2 SA's - only found out yesterday that there was an error after being told first one was 'normal'
Dh sees urologist 12th May

Still in shock and looking for help and info

Deb x


----------



## momof4girls

You can count me in my DH has a count of 16million only 8% motility . we have been TTC for so long I think were just gonna stop trying for good.
:cry:


----------



## Rudeollie

Hi girlies, I just wanted to pop in and offer you some hope (i hope) Me and DH have been ttc for 20months, I got diagnosed with pcos and he got diagnosed with 3%morphology and 30%motility...............I was put onto clomid and as well as taking his welman conception vitamin DH started eating a sperm friendly diet, cut out caffeine for greeen tea and stopped hot baths/showers.........Early days but we just got our bfp!

I just wanted to say that even when the specialsts & doctors say nothing can be except iui or ovf etc....It CAN!!!!!!!!!! xxx


----------



## momof4girls

Thank you Rudeollie congrats on your BFP!. , we only had the one SA done and we found out my DH had a infection too which could have affected his count. at the time of the SA,
im hoping its better now.been a year sence his SA,
and my DH has been taking vitamins and lost 50 pounds on the HCG diet too. im ovulating now. so were trying ICI tonight. along with a fertility ritual.


----------



## FBbaby

Rudeollie said:


> Hi girlies, I just wanted to pop in and offer you some hope (i hope) Me and DH have been ttc for 20months, I got diagnosed with pcos and he got diagnosed with 3%morphology and 30%motility...............I was put onto clomid and as well as taking his welman conception vitamin DH started eating a sperm friendly diet, cut out caffeine for greeen tea and stopped hot baths/showers.........Early days but we just got our bfp!
> 
> I just wanted to say that even when the specialsts & doctors say nothing can be except iui or ovf etc....It CAN!!!!!!!!!! xxx

That's fantastic news, congratulations. It really encourages me, especially in light of the morphology results. My OH count was a bit low at 18M, but motility at 65% makes him overall ok, what failed the SA was morphology of 4%. FS more or less said that with this, it would be almost impossible to get a bfp and suggested icsi. We've decided to go for it, but something deep inside of me makes me think that if it does happen one day, it will be naturally. It's nice to know that it is indeed possible.

Wishing you a fantastic happy 9 months and more :hugs:


----------



## Gracy 004

hi FBbaby. i think your count sounds quite good! They say the normal is 20 million but your hubby is not far off that and his motility is good. As for the low morph... not too sure about this but our doctor said that they dont take this into much consideration as there is a lot of debate as to the normal level. I really reckon you could get a natural BFP with that count, heres hoping:thumbup:


----------



## brumbar

we are with MF too-
getting better, but still not perfect
last test :
4.5 vol
30mil per ml
50%motility ( 12%rapid, 38%moderate)
and erm morphology...5%..
first test morphology was 0%;-(


----------



## brumbar

FBbaby said:


> Rudeollie said:
> 
> 
> Hi girlies, I just wanted to pop in and offer you some hope (i hope) Me and DH have been ttc for 20months, I got diagnosed with pcos and he got diagnosed with 3%morphology and 30%motility...............I was put onto clomid and as well as taking his welman conception vitamin DH started eating a sperm friendly diet, cut out caffeine for greeen tea and stopped hot baths/showers.........Early days but we just got our bfp!
> 
> I just wanted to say that even when the specialsts & doctors say nothing can be except iui or ovf etc....It CAN!!!!!!!!!! xxx
> 
> That's fantastic news, congratulations. It really encourages me, especially in light of the morphology results. My OH count was a bit low at 18M, but motility at 65% makes him overall ok, what failed the SA was morphology of 4%. FS more or less said that with this, it would be almost impossible to get a bfp and suggested icsi. We've decided to go for it, but something deep inside of me makes me think that if it does happen one day, it will be naturally. It's nice to know that it is indeed possible.
> 
> Wishing you a fantastic happy 9 months and more :hugs:Click to expand...

our FS seemsto think that natural conception is possible with a low morphology, but it may take longer!!!!!


----------



## MummyIwanabe

I think it def takes longer! Our clinic told us it could be next month or 10 years time lol the chance for us with something like 4% each month. We didn't want to delay so opted for treatment but I think if count is very good then it is def possible x


----------



## beauty

x


----------



## babyloulou

Hi girls- please could I be added to this roll call. I have PCOS and I am on my 4th round of Clomid. OH has a good count but low motility and morphology. He has improved it a lot with lifestyle changes. His first test had 7% morphology and 13% motility. His second test was 13% morphology and 26% motility. Has anyone conceive with these issues? Xx


----------



## Leila Fae

Welcome babyloulou :flower:

Sorry, can't answer your question but some of the other ladies may be able to offer advice.

Only 3 more sleeps until our first specialist appointment! :happydance: Excited and a bit nervous but at least that big old ball is starting to roll!


----------



## lochbride

Sad to say I think I need adding too 

LochBride - low motility & morphology (both about 10%) - TTC since Jan 2009 - awaiting first visit to fertility clinic. 

It would be FABULOUS to hear success stories on this in a few months ;)


----------



## MissAma

Hey everyone and a sad welcome to newbies. Have been neglecting this thread while in treatment. 

I'll update tomorrow so if anyone is not added to the first page yet, could you please post in the same format as Lochbride?

Name - diagnostic - trying since when - Treatment milestone

Cheers and keep your spirits up, we'll all get there!


----------



## babyloulou

Thanks MissAma and congrats on the new little bean!! X

my details:- 

Babyloulou- low motility (26%) and low morphology (13%). PCOS and no ovulation. - trying since 2005- On 4th round of Clomid (then to ICSI) 

Xxx


----------



## MissAma

Thank you, not out of the woods yet but it goes to show not even azoospermia is the end of the road and you CAN get a pregnancy. Whether it stays with us or not that's just a matter of prayers now.

Good luck to you! Hope the Clomid works and you won't need ICSI.

I've added you, also everyone, if you want a link to your diary on the first page add that as well. 

The thread will stay long before we would have had our bubs and you remember how desperate for info we have all been, right? The more we can tell the girls who will be in our shoes later the better.


----------



## beauty

Can you still get pregnant using ICIS with 0% morph?x


----------



## MummyIwanabe

Yes :) I believe so. my clinic said they could. it took them 6 hours to find ans sift through the sperm to get good ones but they did and it ended in a BFP :)


----------



## ACLIO

Hi Ladies, I forgot to mention that at our last FS ICSI appointment the FS mentioned that DH count went from 100,000 to 600,000. I wonder if its gone up anymore :)


----------



## beauty

beauty said:


> Can you still get pregnant using ICIS with 0% morph?x

Thanks huni.. I hope they can.. :)

He has okish numbers in sperm count around 14million and mobility is around 30% but the morph was well the words were "too scanty to review" that was NHS style.. We got consultaiton next week and doing another SA do these should go into more depth i find private always does.. xx


----------



## MummyIwanabe

you only need a few good ones. with 0% it just means they gota look much harder but they should be there :)


----------



## beauty

Hey Aclio how did the FS appointment go any news when your start your ivf process?
xx


----------



## rainbow girl

Hey,
I'm new to baby and bump, dh has low mtility 20%. Just found out today :nope: so feeling a bit gutted really. Reading all your posts has cheered me up though, no point being negative need to stay positive and hopefully that:bfp:will be mine one day!


----------



## MummyIwanabe

I think that if levels are lower than they should be that it doesn't mean its impossible it just means that it may take some time hence why we've all been trying so long. PMA helps and our clinic said it could be the next month or maybe 10 years who knows. A difficult thing to hear so we opted for treatment via ICSI. I find having something to focus on, a moving forward attitude has really helped me.

Good luck xxx


----------



## rainbow girl

I will keep trying with the PMA! Good luck with the ICSI, lots of baby dust to you and your other half! x


----------



## Leila Fae

DH and I went to see the endocrinologist today to get his blood test results. All was well - no hormonal issues which could cause TTC problems. We've been signed off as suitable to see the fertility specialist so we just have to wait to be sent an apppointment date.


----------



## tansey

Hi ladies we always thought the problem was with me - I have a fibroid, blocked tube and did have polyps and a chronic infection (possibly caused by 1st MC) but just before we started IVF they did our tests again and we found out DH had 55% sperm antibodies. This is also known as sticky sperm. It can be caused by a sports injury but DH suspects that he has a varicocele (which he didn't tell the FS).
We are currently coming to the end of D/R and hoping to start stimms on Tues. I am going to speak to the clinic coz they have put us down for IVF with a ? next to ICSI - they said it was up to the andrologist on the day which worries me a bit.
Anyway :wave:


----------



## Deb111

tansey said:


> Hi ladies we always thought the problem was with me - I have a fibroid, blocked tube and did have polyps and a chronic infection (possibly caused by 1st MC) but just before we started IVF they did our tests again and we found out DH had 55% sperm antibodies. This is also known as sticky sperm. It can be caused by a sports injury but DH suspects that he has a varicocele (which he didn't tell the FS).
> We are currently coming to the end of D/R and hoping to start stimms on Tues. I am going to speak to the clinic coz they have put us down for IVF with a ? next to ICSI - they said it was up to the andrologist on the day which worries me a bit.
> Anyway :wave:

Hi hun

Good luck to you with your treatment - just seeing where you live ... are you under the CRM at Coventry?

Deb


----------



## tansey

Deb yes I am!


----------



## Deb111

Cool - that's 3 of us on here so far that I'm aware of then :thumbup:

We've been told it will be ICSI for us. Can I ask how long the wait for your treatment was once they decided you needed IVF / ICSI?

Wishing you lots of luck :hugs:


----------



## tansey

Deb I was being seen at another hospital for my fibroid and MCs and then we moved to the area and our new doc referred us. We saw the doc on 26th Jan and got 1st appointment for Feb 25 and then went back on 14th April and discussed results and told that we could start next cycle and needed to book an info session with the nurse. We went to reception to book the info session and they'd just had a cancellation for the next day and so we went back and because I was on CD21 I was able to start that day!
I feel lucky - especially as my clock is ticking!


----------



## Rdy2BaMom

Hello ladies! 
I am new to this area. . . :flower:
DH and I are on our 13th cycle TTC. All my tests came back normal, but DH has low morphology, motility, and count. :cry: He has an appointment with the urologist May 5th to try and figure out why. Please add me to the list! Thanks! :flower:


----------



## Deb111

Rdy2BaMom said:


> Hello ladies!
> I am new to this area. . . :flower:
> DH and I are on our 13th cycle TTC. All my tests came back normal, but DH has low morphology, motility, and count. :cry: He has an appointment with the urologist May 5th to try and figure out why. Please add me to the list! Thanks! :flower:


Hi Rdy - nice to see you here (just a shame about the circumstances)

I've recently come over to this area too, still in F.A.I.T.H too though :flower:

Don't know if you caught my post a couple of weeks ago but although we had been told hubby's first SA test was normal, when we went to our second appt, we were told the 2nd test had no sperm in it :cry: and then he checked and found out that the first sample didn't either and that they'd just sent us the wrong letter

So within the space of 5 minutes we went from thinking the problem was with me and that IVF might be a last resort, to being told that news and hearing that ICSI / IVF is our ONLY chance and even that may not be possible if they can't find any sperm rather than there just being a blockage 

Anyway I hope you're due for some good news soon

Deb xx


----------



## Deb111

tansey said:


> Deb I was being seen at another hospital for my fibroid and MCs and then we moved to the area and our new doc referred us. We saw the doc on 26th Jan and got 1st appointment for Feb 25 and then went back on 14th April and discussed results and told that we could start next cycle and needed to book an info session with the nurse. We went to reception to book the info session and they'd just had a cancellation for the next day and so we went back and because I was on CD21 I was able to start that day!
> I feel lucky - especially as my clock is ticking!

I'll PM you if that's ok x


----------



## Rdy2BaMom

Thanks deb! Yes, I do remember your post on FAITH. I can't imagine how devastating that is. We too are hoping for some good news soon! Blessings on you dear!


----------



## brumbar

Hey MissAmma! could you please add me too????
Brumbar - low morphology (last test in Jan 5% before that 0%!!!!2%,3%, 4%) - TTC since Dec 2007 - IVF (+ICSI?) in progress.


----------



## brumbar

tansey said:


> Hi ladies we always thought the problem was with me - I have a fibroid, blocked tube and did have polyps and a chronic infection (possibly caused by 1st MC) but just before we started IVF they did our tests again and we found out DH had 55% sperm antibodies. This is also known as sticky sperm. It can be caused by a sports injury but DH suspects that he has a varicocele (which he didn't tell the FS).
> We are currently coming to the end of D/R and hoping to start stimms on Tues. I am going to speak to the clinic coz they have put us down for IVF with a ? next to ICSI - they said it was up to the andrologist on the day which worries me a bit.
> Anyway :wave:

Awww tansey, sorry to hear that hun!
They always look at the sample on the day...so if not good enough for IVF they'll do ICSI! they prefer IVF because it's still some sort of "natural selection". I'm sure all will be fine, they won't just go for IVF if you need ICSI.The problem is, if they prepare the eggs for icsi, they can't use them for ivf as they strip off the outer layers which contain whatever it is the sperm need in order to get to the zona...
With us they told us first that we need ICSI , but later they said they'll decide on the day, depending on DH's sample. If still not that good (5-6% morph is the cut off), but I have plenty of eggs they'll do half/half.... 
fingers x-ed hun!


----------



## MissAma

Done sweetheart. Tansey want me to add you to the first page too? Rdy3BaMom? I am just guessing this thread will be good in terms of having a reference for newbies even after we're done :)


----------



## Deb111

Could you add me to the first page please?

Deb111 - azoospermia diagnosed April 2010 - TTC for 20 montha - urologist appt 12th May

Thanks hun


----------



## Rdy2BaMom

Yes please MissAma!:flower: 

Rdy2BaMom- Dh has low morphology, count, motility. Urologist appt May 5th

Thank you ma'am! :hugs:


----------



## Titi

Hi Girls,
don't know if anyone has heard of, or is already using Zestica? 

It is supposedly the only lubricant clinically proven to IMPROVE sperm movement/motility. I bought some airmail from Australia (off Ebay) and will be trying soon!


----------



## tansey

Titi we use this already, i prefer it to preseed.


----------



## HopeSprings

Can I get added to the role call?

Hopesprings-low morphology 4% IUI #1 with clomid (also Fertilaid for Men)

I thought preseed was the only one on the market, maybe when we run out I'll order some Zestica. Has anyone had success with clomid to improve sperm? Wondering if I should ask for some for DH. It's pretty cheap through our insurance...


----------



## mrskcbrown

Hi ladies let me chime in and join as well.

I have been TTC for 14 months. My DH has low morphology and volume. He had his first SA august 2009 and it came back at 2% morphs. He has since taken one in March 2010 and his morphs were at 6%. So to me anything going up has to be a good thing. *What percentage do you have to be to have "good" morphology?*
We have been given the OK and the protocol to start IUI any month that we want but we are just waiting a while to see if we can do it on our own for free:haha:.

Anyway, we trust God and know that with him, all things are possible:thumbup:.


----------



## Deb111

Hope no one minds me just copying this from posting in another group, but I am so stresses I don't have the energy to re write it, so apologies if you see this in other places too:dohh:)

Urology appt was pretty much a waste of time!

After the mess up last time of having the letter that said SA was 'normal' and then being told that was an error and he has azoospermia, we now turn up at appt with urologust to be told "it's a shame I don't have any blood test results to maybe give 'some' indication". 

We pointed out that they took them at our last appt, so off he goes to see if they're on the system but just not in our file and guess what?! NOTHING! So either they've lost the results or the blood. So hubby had a quick examination - nothing to report, and urologist spent 10 mins asking age, medical history, blah blah blah (read our file!!), then nurse re-took the bloods and put him on waiting list for SSR in 3 to 4 months time and then RE-DID the bloods! :sleep:

So now we have to go back in 3 weeks time for results of bloods! So we ask him what he thinks the odds are of finding sperm in cases like this and he says "with nothing to really go on, I'd have to say 50/50!"

Plus we were also told that my FSH level was a little high, which may be a natural fluctuation, but I have to have my CD3 bloods done again as it may suggest my egg reserves are low! It gets worse!
:shrug:

Hi MrsKC by the way - nice to see you here too :flower:


----------



## MissAma

Deb - sorry it's so slow hon, I remember just how frustrating these initial stages are.... what idjits to have lost the bloods. Good going for the SSR but as I said make sure they will freeze whatever they find!

I've added you to the list ladies.


----------



## HopeSprings

What morphology is considered normal? Depends on the RE. Mine said anything below 14% is not good for normal conception, and he doesn't recommend IUI below 6% I think. We are doing it anyway.


----------



## mrskcbrown

HopeSprings said:


> What morphology is considered normal? Depends on the RE. Mine said anything below 14% is not good for normal conception, and he doesn't recommend IUI below 6% I think. We are doing it anyway.

Yeah but there seems to be so many women who have gotten their BFP with morphologies between 6-10%. Im not giving up hope. We have been given the go ahead to proceed with IUI but Im waiting a few months to see what God is going to do. Ive waited 14 so Im sure I can wait some more.:wacko:


----------



## MissAma

Please don't anyone take this the wrong way and it's neither here nor there but just to share my feelings, our miracle is straight from God too. We may not have gotten it while making love but it's God's hand alright. To me it's never been God versus science but God originating it, He sanctioned all the procedures we've been through, all the drugs, all the treatments and He then ensured they worked. No less of a miracle.


----------



## mrskcbrown

MissAma said:


> Please don't anyone take this the wrong way and it's neither here nor there but just to share my feelings, our miracle is straight from God too. We may not have gotten it while making love but it's God's hand alright. To me it's never been God versus science but God originating it, He sanctioned all the procedures we've been through, all the drugs, all the treatments and He then ensured they worked. No less of a miracle.

I definitely know that ICSI/IVF/IUI are all miracles from God. He gave DRs the knowledge to create and to complete those procedures. I dont take that for granted at all or think that your child is any less of a miracle than a natural sex cycle. *Not one time did I say that children that come through that way are not miracles.* Im even considering the IUI procedure as well, and I stated that. I just said Im going to give God some more time to work in that capacity first and if that capacity doesnt work then Ill trust God through IUI or whatever other procedure I may have to have.

I was NOT trying to offend anyone with my statement and I still dont think that I did.:shrug:


----------



## MissAma

Whoa, that was quite the reaction... You didn't offend me in the least, l was just pointing out in how many ways he works that's all. Good luck!


----------



## mrskcbrown

MissAma said:


> Whoa, that was quite the reaction... You didn't offend me in the least, l was just pointing out in how many ways he works that's all. Good luck!

Great! Im wishing you the best as well.:thumbup: Not to cause conflict because thats not who I am, but I felt as though it was directed at me because I was the only one discussing God.:shrug:

Anywho, *Deb111* Im praying for you so hard tonite because I know you are having a hard time.:hugs:


----------



## Deb111

As many of you know, hubby has been diagnosed with azoospermia and we saw urologist on Wednesday who wasn't much help! I asked him what we could do (in terms of diet and supplements) to make sure that IF they did find any sperm that they are of the best quality they can be. 

His answer "there's nothing special you should be doing!"

Now I know that's not true cos I know zinc is crucial in sperm production and hubby takes a multivit, but would be interested to hear what others have e
been told or what people have tried that has increased sperm count / mobility / morphology etc.

Thanks girls :thumbup:


----------



## MissAma

Deb l had mine doing the usual before SSR in boxers, no cigarettes, not more than 2 beers à week, no coffee or Coke, gym and FertilAid for men. Not sure it helped, they did not find more than before but maybe it was better quality since it worked. Whatever you do just remember the cycle for new production is close to 3 months to see any changes.


----------



## Deb111

MissAma said:


> Deb l had mine doing the usual before SSR in boxers, no cigarettes, not more than 2 beers à week, no coffee or Coke, gym and FertilAid for men. Not sure it helped, they did not find more than before but maybe it was better quality since it worked. Whatever you do just remember the cycle for new production is close to 3 months to see any changes.

Thanks - he has 3-4 months to wait for op so there's time - and time for me to lose a few pounds too cos they wont start anything with me until they know they've got some :spermy:

I see you're doing good! Nice to see a positive story to give us lots of hope :happydance:


----------



## tansey

Deb sorry your appointment was so crap! :hugs:


----------



## Rdy2BaMom

Well, DH had his urologist appt, did blood tests for hormone levels, and had a scrotal ultrasound done and it all came back normal. :shrug: How can that all come back normal and his SA levels be so low?? I don't get it. Oh well, he is going to start Clomid and retest in a couple of months. Still trusting God in all this, but getting so very discouraged. :nope:


----------



## MissAma

It can happen, all our tests come back normal and yet we have NO sperm -in the ejaculate that is- it's likely that he simply has less tissue with spermatogenesis. With that Said, Clomid has good success rates in men and while it likely won't make more it can make them better swimmers! 

Has IVF been mentioned?


----------



## babyloulou

Hi Girls- just to let you know for the front page- I got my BFP on Sunday!! 4th month of Clomid using preseed and softcups xxx


----------



## MissAma

Congrats!!!

Updated the 1st page for you.


----------



## Deb111

babyloulou said:


> Hi Girls- just to let you know for the front page- I got my BFP on Sunday!! 4th month of Clomid using preseed and softcups xxx

CONGRATS - H&H 9 months to you :happydance:


----------



## mrskcbrown

babyloulou said:


> Hi Girls- just to let you know for the front page- I got my BFP on Sunday!! 4th month of Clomid using preseed and softcups xxx

Congrats babyloulou!:happydance:

RDY: you will have a baby. Im praying for you! Thank God for great results with your DH!:hugs:


----------



## Rdy2BaMom

Congrats babylou!! How exciting! :happydance:

Missama-we have not talked about IVF yet, it is sooo expensive and not covered by our insurance, of course. We have talked about IUI, and will probably look into that sooner than later. It is only $500 and my in-laws told us that they would pay for it. Thanks for your encouraging words!

Mrskc-I cherish your prayers! Thank you dear! We will both get our BFP's someday :thumbup:


----------



## FBbaby

Hello everyone, just wanted to share something of interest to us girls with MI. I've just bought the latest guide to fertility and Assisted Conception by Zita West that has just come out this year. There is a whole chapiter on SA and I was surprised to read that the latest WHO recommendations for 'normal' SA analysis (2009) seemed to have dropped: count per ml, now 15 rather than 20 ), motility 40% rather than 50% and... morphology...now say that up to 96% of sperm in a healthy man can be abnormal. This was a particular interest to me as OH results were 18milion/ml, 60% motility and 4% normal which according to these new criteria would put him under normal SA results. All that said, we have been ttc 12 cycles since our m/c, I ovulated each time and we bd at ovulation each time, so clearly, it is still not that straight forward!

We have our appointment with the fs to start treatment tomorrow. OH has done a second test last week, but he was ill with a fever a few days before, so not sure the results will be accurate. Still, we have agreed to give icsi a go so unless it comes back with a 100million/ml and 60% normal shapes (ha ha, as if!), we will go ahead with it. 

Still, it explains why a number of us has managed to fall pg despite a result of male subfertility.


----------



## mrskcbrown

FBbaby said:


> Hello everyone, just wanted to share something of interest to us girls with MI. I've just bought the latest guide to fertility and Assisted Conception by Zita West that has just come out this year. There is a whole chapiter on SA and I was surprised to read that the latest WHO recommendations for 'normal' SA analysis (2009) seemed to have dropped: count per ml, now 15 rather than 20 ), motility 40% rather than 50% and... morphology...now say that up to 96% of sperm in a healthy man can be abnormal. This was a particular interest to me as OH results were 18milion/ml, 60% motility and 4% normal which according to these new criteria would put him under normal SA results. All that said, we have been ttc 12 cycles since our m/c, I ovulated each time and we bd at ovulation each time, so clearly, it is still not that straight forward!
> 
> We have our appointment with the fs to start treatment tomorrow. OH has done a second test last week, but he was ill with a fever a few days before, so not sure the results will be accurate. Still, we have agreed to give icsi a go so unless it comes back with a 100million/ml and 60% normal shapes (ha ha, as if!), we will go ahead with it.
> 
> Still, it explains why a number of us has managed to fall pg despite a result of male subfertility.

Wow this is really good information. My DH has 6% normal forms for morphology. We have been trying almost 15 months. For some reason I feel like we are getting closer.:happydance:


----------



## FBbaby

well we had the results of my OH second SA and although I trully didn't expect a significant change, especially since OH had a nasty virus with fever just days before doing the sample, it was a lot better than the first. Results for the first one was 18M/ml, 60% motility, 4% morphology. Results of second, 3 months later: count now 29m/ml, motility still 60% and morphology increased to 6%. Under the new WHO guidelines, his sample falls under the 'normal' category. We were so pleased with these results.

What he did different? Nothing much, just took fertilityaid and cut down on beer. When I say cut down, it is far from giving up, he made it clear he wouldn't do that, but reduced the number of days he has one, and the quantity. I'm really pleased because he believes that it is the reduction is alcohol that has made the difference rather than the pills. I'm not sure, but that means that he has now an even better incentive to keep to his new regime!


----------



## Springflower

Hey Ladies :flower:

Would you mind adding me? OH has no normal forms, we've been told ICSI is the route for us. Our 1st appointment at the clinic is 1st June.

xxxx


----------



## Jem88

My OH has 3% normal forms, but the counts 87 mil and motility 22% rapid 9% sluggish, i've just done the semen analysis calculator, an the result is abnormal - severe :( are our results bad? i kno the 3% isn't good but the rest is okay.. 

https://www.pathwaystopregnancy.com/semen_analysis_calc_pathways.cfm


----------



## Deb111

Jem88 said:


> My OH has 3% normal forms, but the counts 87 mil and motility 22% rapid 9% sluggish, i've just done the semen analysis calculator, an the result is abnormal - severe :( are our results bad? i kno the 3% isn't good but the rest is okay..
> 
> https://www.pathwaystopregnancy.com/semen_analysis_calc_pathways.cfm

Hi Jem

Sorry i can't offer much advice - my hubby has NO normal forms, but just wanted to say - great little tool you've found with that calculator - not seen it before.

Hope you get some good news soon xx


----------



## mrskcbrown

Jem88 said:


> My OH has 3% normal forms, but the counts 87 mil and motility 22% rapid 9% sluggish, i've just done the semen analysis calculator, an the result is abnormal - severe :( are our results bad? i kno the 3% isn't good but the rest is okay..
> 
> https://www.pathwaystopregnancy.com/semen_analysis_calc_pathways.cfm

Awesome tool Jem. I did it and we got low. I think you are ok. Many women with our condition of low morphology issues still conceive it just takes us longer, or we have to do IUI. I choose to keep trying on my own right now. Good luck!:hugs:


----------



## Jem88

Yeah, we got told my our GP that it will happen for us, but it might just take a while, which it has done, took us 18 months to get our 2nd bfp.. and i guess it can happen for us.. it's just the when.


----------



## HopeSprings

Well, even if this little beanie doesn't stick I want to pass on a little hope for all those with MF issues. My DH has low morphology, I think it was 4%. We did IUI with clomid this cycle for the first time. His counts that day (we held off for almost a week to prepare the troops) were 35 mil 62% motile before, and like 17 mil with 89% motile post wash. I wish they looked at morph too, but oh well. 

The ICs I did 9 DPO, 10 DPO FMU, and 11 DPO FMU >>>>> all looked like a FAINT pink shadow, but I was so hopeful that I bought some FRERs today. Got two :bfp: right away, then the Fact Plus also! I am so stoked. Please be sticky! 

So, to all those ladies who have an RE like mine who said IUI was a waste of time and money and we had NO CHANCE without IVF...tell them to screw themselves, they'll do whatever you pay for!

Good luck ladies :dust:


----------



## mrskcbrown

HopeSprings said:


> Well, even if this little beanie doesn't stick I want to pass on a little hope for all those with MF issues. My DH has low morphology, I think it was 4%. We did IUI with clomid this cycle for the first time. His counts that day (we held off for almost a week to prepare the troops) were 35 mil 62% motile before, and like 17 mil with 89% motile post wash. I wish they looked at morph too, but oh well.
> 
> The ICs I did 9 DPO, 10 DPO FMU, and 11 DPO FMU >>>>> all looked like a FAINT pink shadow, but I was so hopeful that I bought some FRERs today. Got two :bfp: right away, then the Fact Plus also! I am so stoked. Please be sticky!
> 
> So, to all those ladies who have an RE like mine who said IUI was a waste of time and money and we had NO CHANCE without IVF...tell them to screw themselves, they'll do whatever you pay for!
> 
> Good luck ladies :dust:

:happydance::happydance::happydance:Congrats honey!:happydance::happydance::happydance:


----------



## aussiettc

hi ladies i hope you dont mind me poping in. i though i would let you know of something i stumbled across today while reading a healthy eating journal. 
I study was done recently which showed the infertile male mice who increased their Omega 3 DHA intake with a suppliment almost always restored their sperm count. The research is only in the early stages and more test need to be conducted but i though i couldn't help to let you know incase you want to try it.

good luck ladies


----------



## FBbaby

Brilliant news HopeSprings, congratulations :hugs:

Thanks aussiettc for this info :hugs:


----------



## le_annek

Hubby had urologist appt and another sperm sample results were
2.5ml
total sperm count 212 million
motility 50%
Morphology 10%
Hell of an improvement since the last one 2 months ago :) 
still not pregnant though as is blood work came back with lw testosterone levels?????
anyone know anything about that? xxx


----------



## HopeSprings

That sounds like some good :spermy: Yay!


----------



## le_annek

Congrats on you bfp Hopesprings :) you must be over the moon xxx


----------



## lochbride

Great news Hopesprings!! 

I'm excited that tomorrow is June - 10 days til OH second SA and 23 until our first appointment with the fertility people. After a 7 month waiting list and 17 cycles with nothing but AF, I'm psyched for this month! Crazy that sometimes it all seems hopeless and then some days you just feel like it's possible. Hope springs eternal - maybe Hopesprings bfp will be a good omen :)


----------



## Tomo

Hello!
I'm not sure if this is where I belong yet, as everything is still a bit inconclusive...But been struggling to find a thread to call home since hanging out in the CBFM thread in TTC. 

Ok, here goes...I'm 34 next month and my husband is 33 we've been ttc for 10 months (not long I know) with not a hint of a BFP. I went to the doctors a few months ago, my cd3 bloods came back fine. My husband has done 2 SA's - both have come back as possibly contributory, (numbers below). So we've been referred to a fertility specialist. We've been told we'll get an appointment within 3 months. Like everyone, I really really hope that it won't come to it and we'll get pregnant before then...

My husband's taking wellman vits, vit c and zinc and has decided to stop drinking at least for the next month. Our GP said that could be a major factor. He doesn't smoke and neither of us are overweight, both exercise and eat well. 

1st SA 
viscosity normal
volume ml 3.2
density (x 106/ml) 49
motilty (%) 53
progression fair
Normal forms (%) 4
debris ++
agglutination -

possibly contributory

2nd SA
viscosity normal
volume ml 3.2
density (x 106/ml) 72
motilty (%) 42
progression fair
Normal forms (%) 4

possibly contributory

Sorry for the long message, Good luck to you all! :flower:


----------



## walrusandposs

Hello!!! I'm new here and finding it really comforting to find peeps in the same position as us = )

Could I also be included? My partner has a low morph issue, apparently I'm fine (though I don't believe this quite yet cos I convinced myself that my spotting was a problem- apparently its not- hmmmm...)

Anyway, i can't remember the full details of the SA other than motility was fine... count was about 90mill and morph was 10%

We've tried 9 cycles, I've already got the sweetest wee man from my previous relationship (I had him when I was 17- in my first month of sex- ever!!) and then, well now its harder (29 now)..

Anyway, I have my partner on FertilAid and Pyconegenal, which he started yesterday, so plenty of time til it kicks in.

I'm going to start softcups and preseed this month too, full of hope still :thumbup:

Let's see how we go!

Laura xxxxxxx


----------



## HopeSprings

Hi Tomo- it sounds like our results. The only thing they found wrong was morphology at 4% also. But it varies widely from dr to dr as to what they think that means. So I don't put a lot of stock into it personally. Best of luck to you :dust:


----------



## Leila Fae

DH and I went to see the GP today. We've had his hormone results back which were all fine.

The GP is referring us to a specialist but can't guarantee that we'll be accepted as at the moment the only identifiable problem for us is DH's low morphology (6%). We're adding in that I'm diabetic and therefore should have children sooner rather than later (I'm 31) but that's not actually affecting my fertility. That said I'd like more investigations done on me.

Anyhoo, we've got a provisional appointment for 2nd Aug providing they accept the referral. Even if they do the result may be that DH's morphology isn't bad enough to bypass the 36 months you have to have been trying before being eligible for funding for treatment so we could still be stuck trying for another year. I really can't think about that just now - I will be heartbroken if that is the case.

More waiting for us then.


----------



## HopeSprings

36 months?!?!? Are you serious? It's all private here, but IUI wasn't expensive at all.


----------



## Leila Fae

We can't afford to go private so we're kind of at the mercy of the NHS :dohh:


----------



## HopeSprings

Leila Fae said:


> We can't afford to go private so we're kind of at the mercy of the NHS :dohh:

I know it's hard to wait, but here it is too expensive for a lot of people. So at least there is an option. My little brother and his wife want kids bad. He had cancer at 19, so he's sterile. The only way for them is IVF with his popsicles. Only it costs over $10,000 per try out there. So they are saving and hoping.

Don't worry, your :bfp: is on the way!


----------



## nurseh14

Hey ladies can I join? Hubbys volume:1.3,motility:16,morphology:3:hugs:


----------



## Mash

looknomore said:


> Am new here so hope am doing this right.
> 
> TTC for 1 year
> DH has low sperm motility
> Ist Cycle IUI this month

so did it work?


----------



## suzie7

It's been a long time since I've posted on this forum.

We are ICSI bound! I'm excited. After DH got on 3 months of 25 mg a day clomid, his tittle count increased from 13 mill/ml to 32 mill/ml. Great but unfortunately his motility is so poor it leaves us quite helpless. Only 12% motility.

For others who DO have good motility but the count is just an issue, I would recommend the clomid for men as we did see quite an increase-more than 100%.


----------



## mrskcbrown

Hey ladies, I was on this thread earlier but left due to various reasons but I wanted to give you all a little hope as I was in this same situation for 15 months.

My DH had an initial morphology of 2% on his first SA, and low volume and mediocre count. On his second SA, he had 6% morphology and this time medium volume. This was au natural as he hadnt started taking vitamins yet. I have PCOS and had irregular cycles most of my life. The DR put me on metformin and clomid to get my cycles regulated. Well I took that combo from sept through April and nothing. I also charted my cycle for the first time this march 2009.

Mind you the DR told us the ONLY way we would every get BFP is to do IUI. So month after month we said, "well lets just give it a try on our own one more month". This May, I charted my cycle again, gave up the clomid and just BD'd as much as we could. I got my BFP June 9, on an unmedicated cycle, and with a DH who has low morphology!

So never give up hope ladies. I know how hard it is, I was right there, month after month. We are grateful to God for this blessing and we do not take it lightly.:hugs:


:dust::dust::dust::dust:


----------



## walrusandposs

Oh that's fantastic Mrskcbrown! great news- very,very encouraging:happydance:


----------



## FBbaby

brilliant fantastic news and very encouraging one for us. 

After months of going on forums, waving our chances and how I felt about IVF/ICSI, I am almost totally decided to just let nature takes its course. We are not optimal fertility neiter of us, but it isn't impossible and I hold on to this since it did indeed happen once. 

Your news encourage me in that direction, since last SA only concern was OH 6% morphology. You are proof that it can still happen, it just might take a bit longer. I will therefore hold on to patience!

Have a fantastic 9 months :hugs:


----------



## Leila Fae

Congratulations mrskcbrown! :happydance:


----------



## Tomo

Congratulations mrskcbrown! 

As the others have said, this isvery encouraging indeed! Mr Tomo has had a couple of below par SA's with 4% morph on both of them. We're currently waiting for our first FS appointment to come through. But I still hold out hope that we may conceive without help.

Have a wonderful 9 months!


----------



## Lucie73821

Hello, 

Just got DH's first SA results today. Volume- 1.1, motility-45%, and morphology-16%. The doctor also said there where white blood cells present. He will go to a urologist soon for a follow up. 

In the meantime, what vitimins should he be taking? At the moment he's just taking a multivitimin (on the days he remembers). 

Thanks!


----------



## walrusandposs

Ooh, I found a vitamin that had some great results in a study for motility- I'll find the post link for you, cos it was a difficult name to remember. His morph looks good though, but if he could up those motile ones, that'd be great I reckon!


xxxxx Laura


----------



## walrusandposs

here it is!!

https://www.babyandbump.com/trying-to-conceive/348728-something-came-across-our-men-take.html


----------



## bballbaby

hello!
my husband has had 2 out of 3 abnormal SA and was found to have
varicoceles. does anyone know anything about if the surgery for this works 
to improve the SA?


----------



## Deb111

bballbaby said:


> hello!
> my husband has had 2 out of 3 abnormal SA and was found to have
> varicoceles. does anyone know anything about if the surgery for this works
> to improve the SA?

Have they talked about surgery to sort out the varicoceles hun? or are they going to do a surgical sperm retrieval??


----------



## Quaver

Hi there, may I join please:flower: My DH had his first SA.

Consistency - abnormal, Vitality 33%, Motility 22%, Morphology 1%:blush:

I have PCOS and irregular long cycles (ov CD30-40):dohh:
Will be taking norethisterone & clomid soon.

My fertility doctor seemed optimistic. I don't understand:shrug:


----------



## bballbaby

Deb111 said:


> bballbaby said:
> 
> 
> hello!
> my husband has had 2 out of 3 abnormal SA and was found to have
> varicoceles. does anyone know anything about if the surgery for this works
> to improve the SA?
> 
> Have they talked about surgery to sort out the varicoceles hun? or are they going to do a surgical sperm retrieval??Click to expand...

Thanks for your response...I am not sure what is going on - we have appointments soon to let us know what we are up against - I'm just trying to prepare myself so I know what to ask....I just don't know if the surgery is worth it - I have read conflicting results - some say it works other sites say no - I guess I'll just have to wait to see what the Dr. recommends....hmmmmmm

I am new to this site - where are you in your journey if you don't mind me asking?

have a great day! :)


----------



## Deb111

bballbaby said:


> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bballbaby said:
> 
> 
> hello!
> my husband has had 2 out of 3 abnormal SA and was found to have
> varicoceles. does anyone know anything about if the surgery for this works
> to improve the SA?
> 
> Have they talked about surgery to sort out the varicoceles hun? or are they going to do a surgical sperm retrieval??Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for your response...I am not sure what is going on - we have appointments soon to let us know what we are up against - I'm just trying to prepare myself so I know what to ask....I just don't know if the surgery is worth it - I have read conflicting results - some say it works other sites say no - I guess I'll just have to wait to see what the Dr. recommends....hmmmmmm
> 
> I am new to this site - where are you in your journey if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> have a great day! :)Click to expand...

We have been together for 3 and a half years, married nearly 2 years, and TTC nearly 2 years. I've felt for 18 months that something was wrong and time isn't on our side as I'm 36 and hubby is 44. After finally persuading hubby to come with me to seek help (thinking the problem was probably with me), we were referred to FS in Dec, had our first appt in Jan. Had basic bloods and scans, hubby had 1st SA done which we were told was normal, but that procedure was to do a second SA for comparison. 

Went for 2nd appt (having been told that all tests so far were normal and expecting to be referred for HSG, Lap etc) but were told that actually they'd sent us the wrong letter and hubby's SA were far from normal! He was diagnosed with azoospermia (i.e. NO sperm whatsoever in his SA)

He has had examination which hasn't revealed anything, nothing in his history to give us a clue to the problem and has had some bloods done, which are all fairly normal so he is having SSR (surgical sperm removal) op in October sometime where they basically try to find sperm by doing a biopsy, hoping that there is a small blockage which is stopping the sperm from getting through, but hoping that he is actually making sperm. If they can't find any, or they find his sperm are just not reaching maturity then there's nothing they can do for us, other than offer us the option of using donor sperm. If they find it then I have to have ICSI treatment - we would get one free go.

I would ask your FS about the option of SSR and wat their opinions are on it in your case. I don't know about the op for a varicoceles I'm afraid hun, but I do know that they said to us, even if they found a blockage, they wouldn't try to remove it as it's not got a very high success rate; they would just go ahead with the SSR.

Sorry that turned into an essay!! :dohh:
Deb xx


----------



## MissAma

Hello everyone, I'll add you to the list next week, just a quick one tonight.

Oh but enough time to congratulate mrsckbrown!!! - Well done, have a h&h 8 months, nothing like success stories like yours!:happydance: 



Deb111 said:


> I do know that they said to us, even if they found a blockage, they wouldn't try to remove it as it's not got a very high success rate; they would just go ahead with the SSR.
> 
> Sorry that turned into an essay!! :dohh:
> Deb xx

Yes bballbaby, afraid that is the case for most corrective penile surgery except for maybe the vasectomy reversal, the success rates are negligible. Google Cornell NY and Dr. Shenkell -sp!- as he is the leading world expert in male infertility and see what tests they have performed.


----------



## bballbaby

MissAma said:


> Hello everyone, I'll add you to the list next week, just a quick one tonight.
> 
> Oh but enough time to congratulate mrsckbrown!!! - Well done, have a h&h 8 months, nothing like success stories like yours!:happydance:
> 
> 
> 
> Deb111 said:
> 
> 
> I do know that they said to us, even if they found a blockage, they wouldn't try to remove it as it's not got a very high success rate; they would just go ahead with the SSR.
> 
> Sorry that turned into an essay!! :dohh:
> Deb xx
> 
> Yes bballbaby, afraid that is the case for most corrective penile surgery except for maybe the vasectomy reversal, the success rates are negligible. Google Cornell NY and Dr. Shenkell -sp!- as he is the leading world expert in male infertility and see what tests they have performed.Click to expand...


MissAma: Thanks - I will definitely check that out - but yes i have been mostly finding conflicting results....


----------



## lochbride

Well some good news after the second SA - just over 2 months of no booze, no caffine, cold showers on his bits (eek!) and the Wellman Conception supplement as well as eating well and exercising and his overall motility (motile + sluggish) has upped from 19.8% to 39. Still no sign of a baby but this has to be good news and a sign that all these lifestyle changes are making a difference!


----------



## Quaver

What do you mean cold showers on his bits? Does he do that for few seconds everyday?


----------



## lochbride

Quaver said:


> What do you mean cold showers on his bits? Does he do that for few seconds everyday?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear - too excited after a much dreaded appointment! I read somewhere online that although there is no scientific evidence to support it, it's bad for a boys balls to get too hot and as OH is permenantly on a laptop (no longer on his lap I have to say!), some girls had their OH's run a quick cold shower everytime they were having one so we decided to give it a shot. He's been having a quick five seconds or so of cold shower on his bits for the last 2 months - I'm hyper aware of asking him to do ridiculous things in the name of making a baby but this was one thing he didn't mind. I'm sure some might think it's barmy but it's only one thing in a list of lifestyle changes we've tried - something has to work I guess!

Hope that helps, sorry for not being clearer the first time :)


----------



## Leilani

Men will generally do anything when it comes to protecting the reputation of their manliness. I won't let our cat sit on DH's lap anymore. He (DH) doesn't always seem to remember, but as soon as I say "keeping her off is good for your boys", the cat is quickly relegated to a cushion - though I think the cat is figuring it out, as she has been sitting with me more and more over the past few weeks!

We've recently had a temperature control device attached to our hot water system, and I've turned that down at least 5 degress; it used to be ridiculously hot, and you could only control with cold water, now it's much better - I may turn it down even more when DH is in the shower - but it is winter and booming freezing in the mornings just now!


----------



## Quaver

Will have to tell DH, hope he agrees (his motility is 22%, morphology 1%):haha:


----------



## Mash

any tips on increasing DH's sperm motility?


----------



## Leilani

Mash said:


> any tips on increasing DH's sperm motility?

Caffine can help - but it can also be a hindrance!

Male-fertility multi-vitamins containing zinc and selenium - and time, as it takes up to 90 days for sperm to grow and mature.


----------



## Mash

Leilani said:


> Mash said:
> 
> 
> any tips on increasing DH's sperm motility?
> 
> Caffine can help - but it can also be a hindrance!
> 
> Male-fertility multi-vitamins containing zinc and selenium - and time, as it takes up to 90 days for sperm to grow and mature.Click to expand...

u mean if he starts taking them lets say this month .. its effects will start showing in 90 days?


----------



## Leilani

Mash said:


> u mean if he starts taking them lets say this month .. its effects will start showing in 90 days?

I'm afraid so - nothing is quick on the TTC journey! He could see benefits sooner, but it will take at least 75 days for any real benefits to be seen.


----------



## Mash

oh dear ... Thanks anyways..


----------



## Mash

https://www.drmalpani.com/asthenospermia.htm

this is so heart breaking :(


----------



## Leilani

Oh Mash - don't be too sad. Surely your doc wouldn't have suggested and progressed with IUI if your DH's motility was too low. Do you have figures?


----------



## Quaver

My DH's motility this month was 22%, but we did conceive naturally last year (ended in mc), so it must be possible:flower:


----------



## Mash

Quaver said:


> My DH's motility this month was 22%, but we did conceive naturally last year (ended in mc), so it must be possible:flower:

Really... wow.. thanks.. this is motivating ... :)


----------



## Mash

Leilani said:


> Oh Mash - don't be too sad. Surely your doc wouldn't have suggested and progressed with IUI if your DH's motility was too low. Do you have figures?

You know today is the first day of AF so u can well imagine the trauma... i will be back in the game soon.. tomo will go and talk to my doc in detail.. lets see what she has to say... :) thanks.. i need all the support in the world right now


----------



## MissAma

I'm sorry to hear it Mash.... and I'm sorry you're down and I am certainly not wanting to discourage you even further but what the Dr. Malpani Clinic page says is true as well... I know couples who have been on Clomid for both of them for months, then on HCG injections for years, then on endless tries with IUI and never conceived till they did ICSI. It's sad and it's a dreadful moment to realize that is possibly the only way, I know, been there, we all have but at the end of the day you have to wonder what is more important, the manner in which you'll accomplish a pregnancy or having the baby you're longing for.

Lots of good luck and I hope you choose what's best for you!


----------



## faye38

me just 40 with diabities and no pancreas ! dh 1% abnormall morpgology evey think else ok just the morph making appointment to see the consultant to see when to start ivf so we can try and get a :baby::happydance: but we 
are very lucky and blessed anyway as i allready have 2 grown up sons and dh has 2 grown up children so hopefull ivf will work my dh is a chef so that ruined his sperm :cry: anyway good luck ladys postive thinking:winkwink:x


----------



## lozmo

Bump and adding me and my dh to this roll call. Just got 1st SA results 18 million and 45% motility. Asked about morphology but they couldn't tell me, waiting for 2nd SA results any day now, will probably talk to GP I can imagine about what will come next...iui perhaps?


----------



## Quaver

lozmo said:


> Bump and adding me and my dh to this roll call. Just got 1st SA results 18 million and 45% motility. Asked about morphology but they couldn't tell me, waiting for 2nd SA results any day now, will probably talk to GP I can imagine about what will come next...iui perhaps?

That doesn't sound bad, or is it because my DH's motility is 22%?:haha:
My doctor was more concerned about 1% morphology...


----------



## cheerios

Hey girls, can I join? Hubby has low sperm count of 8 million. Turns out he also has 3 bacterial infections. He has to undergo antibiotics treatment for the next 30 days and I might have to do the same too, if it turns out that I caught the infection from him.... 

Does anybody here know anybody who has got pregnant after treatment of an STD?


----------



## lillyttc

Add me to this list, with male factor infertility, Oligoasthenoteratozoospermia (low count, low motility, low morpholoy) the exact figures being (14mil/ml, 35% motility, 85% abnormal sperms). TTC from 3 years:cry:. me 30 years and my husband 34.


----------



## Leila Fae

Welcome to the gang faye38, lozmo, Quaver, cheerios and lillyttc :hi:


----------



## LionsWife

Can I join? I am so confused, I just picked up dh's results on wednesday and haven't had a chance to see my GP or anything so noone has explained what these results actually mean or what we need to do next. 

He has 25mill conc. but only 2% rapid and 12% sluggish (Does this mean he has 14% motility?). He also has 95% abnormal form. I also have endo. We have been trying to conceive for 1 year.

Would be really nice to join you ladies as I don't have the slightest idea where to go from here. I don't know whether we just keep trying or whether we need to think about other options? Any advice would be much appreciated!


----------



## MissAma

Hello to all the new commers, sorry you have to be here girls...

I'll update the first page next week, hard to do from the iPhone.


----------



## Flake-y

Hey girls, can I join too!

DH has had 2 SA's which showed no sperm at all (azoospermia). He had a surgical sperm retrieval on Tuesday, and although the urologist was pretty confident we'd get sperm cause all his blood tests came out fine, there was none to be found.

Fortunately all my tests have come back ok, so it could be worse I suppose!

So we've decided to go with a sperm donor; going back to the clinic in a couple of weeks to see what happens next!


----------



## Quaver

LionsWife said:


> He has 25mill conc. but only 2% rapid and 12% sluggish (Does this mean he has 14% motility?). He also has 95% abnormal form. I also have endo. We have been trying to conceive for 1 year.

The concentration is good (anything more than 20mil).
14% motility is on the low side (my DH has 22% also low, but my doc doesn't seem concerned).
95% abnormal form is better than my DH as 99%:haha:

Not much we could do about it, but getting them to eat Brazil nuts, vitamin Es, Zinc and some regular exercises for motility:flower:

Oh, my DH has stopped alcohol for the moment and he never smoked:thumbup:


----------



## Deb111

Hope you don't mind me posting this here, but tried posting it in the general LTTTC&AC section 24 hours ago and had no response ....

Just wondering if your hubby's MFI diagnosis (or azoospermia diagnosis in our case) has had an effect on your sex life.

Hubby's got other issues too - underactive thyroid and low testosterone and hasn't been initiating anything for the last 18 months but when he was told about the azoospermia he said it would take the TTC pressure off him and he felt things would be easier then. But that was 4 months ago and nothing ...

I know it must be a real blow to him, but he says he's fine with it and just hopes the SSR is successful, but when I try to initiate things he just comes up with excuses or laughs it off :nope:

I have needs too ... :shrug:

Would be interested to hear others' experiences

Thanks

Deb


----------



## slinky

Hi everyone

I think I belong on this thread - my DH has 2% morphology, although he has good motility and a good count. He is being re-tested this week as it's been 90 days since last test so we're praying it's improved. So far all tests I have had done have been ok.

My next FS appointment is this Thursday so I know they will talk about the next steps then but I could do with some advice from those going through a similar situation as to what the possible next steps are. Just would be good going into the appointment with some kind of idea!

Thanks x


----------



## lozmo

Quaver said:


> lozmo said:
> 
> 
> Bump and adding me and my dh to this roll call. Just got 1st SA results 18 million and 45% motility. Asked about morphology but they couldn't tell me, waiting for 2nd SA results any day now, will probably talk to GP I can imagine about what will come next...iui perhaps?
> 
> That doesn't sound bad, or is it because my DH's motility is 22%?:haha:
> My doctor was more concerned about 1% morphology...Click to expand...

Really? I told my dh that the norms were 20 million plus, motility needs to be 50% or more right? Anyway his second SA was 17 million count and 44% motility but still no morphology and abnormal form numbers. Need to find out next step, dh has already been on supplements since may but wasn't smoking then, he's smoked for a few months and quit again now!! Do you think our doctor will want to start carrying put tests on me or repeat the SAs in three months?


----------



## beauty

I have joined this club along time ago when first set up!! 
I think my oh count was around 12million around 20% good progression but only 2% morph :(

We been TTC for over 2 years now, i have pcos so really irregular periods, F.S gave me clomid for one month to retest OH again same count so she stopped us explaining clomid prob wouldnt benefit us with low numbers..

So annoying as I personally believe we should be given the chance, she said ICIS is prob only way for us.. I never thought i be ttc with IVF when i started this journey!!

The doc first told us his first sample was below average but ok, it then came to light after F.S did around 3 tests that they were all low and she referred us for IVF. Only problem now is our PCT is having problems funding our only 1 IVF cycle we get, so unsure on how long we will be waiting since being referred for treatment in December..

I have no idea where women can get natural BFP with low count overall when i have NEVER have a positive result, its turly is hard work ttc when their are fertility problems.
x


----------



## Quaver

lozmo said:


> Really? I told my dh that the norms were 20 million plus, motility needs to be 50% or more right?

DH's count was 34 million, but motility 22% and morphology 1%.
He's taking vits and brazil nuts so hoping it'll do the trick:flower:


beauty said:


> I have no idea where women can get natural BFP with low count overall when i have NEVER have a positive result, its turly is hard work ttc when their are fertility problems.
> x

We got BFP last year with DH's bad swimmers:flower:
It ended in mc though:blush:


----------



## lozmo

Brazil nuts... good idea I'll add them to my exhaustive list of everything else! To cut a long story short, what I'm not using is: temping, rasberry leaf tea, soy, green tea!


----------



## moxie08

lillyttc said:


> Add me to this list, with male factor infertility, Oligoasthenoteratozoospermia (low count, low motility, low morpholoy) the exact figures being (14mil/ml, 35% motility, 85% abnormal sperms). TTC from 3 years:cry:. me 30 years and my husband 34.

I'm 29, taking Metformin for Insulin Resistance; DH is 30.

6 mil/ml, 0% rapid, 37% sluggish, 99% abnormal and that's with taking Wellman and eating Brazil nuts for several months. :cry: I suppose that's Oligoasthenoteratozoospermia too?

It's approaching 4 years now. I'm starting to realise why.


----------



## lozmo

Hi Moxie 4 years oh my, how has your dh taken it? Have you been referred to a FS? I've just had my bloods back ok progesterone was 41 (I think good), waiting for gynae appointment for about two weeks now. I don't know what might be next for us. Good luck x


----------



## moxie08

Thanks, lozmo -- this second SA was for the fertility specialist. DH is being referred to a urologist for further investigations. I'm focusing on losing 26 lbs so we can get on the waiting list for ICSI. That's the main treatment for severe male factor. We've already had all of the other main investigations, and there's point in taking Clomid with these odds. FX we get our miracles naturally soon.


----------



## lozmo

Yes definately Moxie this waiting game is tough. I've just had hard copies of all our test results and my dh's SA morphology is 'borderline (5-14% normal forms)' in one then it says 'abnormal ( less than 5% normal forms in another) is that quite bad morphology. Will need to look this stuff up and research a bit more.


----------



## emilyjean

We're PCOS and MF. OH has a count of 1.7mil. Apparently they move ok, and the shape is pretty good. Doctor still said IVF was our best option. We could try IUI's, but it would most likely be a waste of money, so we're just going all out. All my tests came back normal, and he said I don't look like the normal PCOS patient. It sounds horrible, but it's definitely not my fault, and it's a relief after going a year thinking it was entirely my issues. 

I guess it's just nice to know what's wrong and how we can fix it. I couldn't handle not knowing anymore. :)


----------



## slinky

lozmo said:


> Yes definately Moxie this waiting game is tough. I've just had hard copies of all our test results and my dh's SA morphology is 'borderline (5-14% normal forms)' in one then it says 'abnormal ( less than 5% normal forms in another) is that quite bad morphology. Will need to look this stuff up and research a bit more.

Hey Lozmo, my DH's morphology was tested twice with the same result of 2%. All my tests have been ok so we have been referred for IVF ICSI. x


----------



## Tomo

lozmo said:


> Yes definately Moxie this waiting game is tough. I've just had hard copies of all our test results and my dh's SA morphology is 'borderline (5-14% normal forms)' in one then it says 'abnormal ( less than 5% normal forms in another) is that quite bad morphology. Will need to look this stuff up and research a bit more.

Hi Lozmo, 

My husband's morph was 4% on both his SA's which our FS has said is normal, which I was really surprised about. However, the WHO have recently changed the guidelines for what is normal, see the link below:
https://infertilityblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/sperm-morphology-new-guidelines.html

Fortunately he has quite a good count, although his motility is a little under what it should be at 43% (should be 50% and over). 

Having said that, we still are not pregnant! Awaiting HyCoSy and CD21 bloods for me.

Good Luck!


----------



## moxie08

Everything I've read in the scientific literature has suggested that motility has more to do with impregnating the woman than count or abnormality, hence the normal is around 4% normal forms now. If your swimmers have good motility (forward progression), I would have more hope. Never act on just 2 semen analyses. Always get at least three and see a Urologist to verify that it's not a reversible condition (aka, with hormonal treatments or surgery). If it's not reversible, I would get on the waiting list for ICSI straight away or start considering donor sperm or adoption. 

Which of course, is easier said. :-/


----------



## Quaver

moxie08 said:


> Everything I've read in the scientific literature has suggested that motility has more to do with impregnating the woman than count or abnormality, hence the normal is around 4% normal forms now.

Is 4% rapid and 18% slow (ie 22% motility) bad?:blush: (1% morph).


----------



## moxie08

Quaver said:


> moxie08 said:
> 
> 
> Everything I've read in the scientific literature has suggested that motility has more to do with impregnating the woman than count or abnormality, hence the normal is around 4% normal forms now.
> 
> Is 4% rapid and 18% slow (ie 22% motility) bad?:blush: (1% morph).Click to expand...

No one really can say for sure, Quaver. If the count is very low, I would be planning for ICSI, sperm donation or adoption. You can try every cycle for years and may not see a natural pregnancy, or you might get lucky. Such are the statistics. :hugs: Keep trying, but think about other options, too.


----------



## Quaver

moxie08 said:


> No one really can say for sure, Quaver. If the count is very low, I would be planning for ICSI, sperm donation or adoption. You can try every cycle for years and may not see a natural pregnancy, or you might get lucky. Such are the statistics. :hugs: Keep trying, but think about other options, too.

Thanks for your reply Moxie. 
Count was OK, 34 million, but I'm not getting younger:blush:


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies, I would love to join in. I have just read most of the thread and it is very interesting how many male factor problems there are, and how many different reasons there are.

We do not know that our problem is, basically no sperm is coming out, he has just had a scan and there are no signs of problems, no blockages, nothing, so there is no visable reason why they are not coming out - does this mean that they are not there at all. My DH has a 18 year old son, so we know this is not genetic so in my mind its heading towards him not producing sperm. But on the other hand his balls have not shrunk which is a sign of no sperm - so its a real mystery! We have our next meeting on 18th Aug, and his op is on 1st Sept, which from what I have renad is the SSR. We do not qualify for NHS because he has a son, so we have to go private, so the ICSI does not start until they have done the op and if they find any swimmers they will freeze them. Then that is all the NHS will do for us!

In all of this thread, I have not found anyone who has a similar story, all problems seem to be mobiltiy and count or health history issues etc,

I am 32 DH is 48, it is really hard to face the idea of not havig a child, Its hard sometimes, because it is alright for DH because he has done the pregnancy test, the first kick, the birth, the first steps etc. And he is being great and wants to do whatever to make me happy, but I can't help feeling jealous - I want to have his baby! He is not keen on Donor, as he said that he can not deal with having another mans baby. But I can't live with not having a baby - so lets hope we don't get to have that argument!!!

Thanks for setting up this thread ladies, it has been really interesting, I look forward to seeing lots more Pregnancies!!! Fingers crossed for us all!


----------



## Leila Fae

Welcome Step Mummy! :flower:

Be sure to let us know how you get on - your situation certainly sounds unusual.


----------



## Quaver

Welcome Step mummy. Hope the op will do the trick:flower:


----------



## lozmo

slinky said:


> Hey Lozmo, my DH's morphology was tested twice with the same result of 2%. All my tests have been ok so we have been referred for IVF ICSI. x

Hi Slinky I've been stalkin your journal! We're both just waiting patiently for bits and bobs now aren't we? Don't you feel like you're in limbo waiting for your life to start? x


----------



## lozmo

Tomo said:


> Hi Lozmo,
> 
> My husband's morph was 4% on both his SA's which our FS has said is normal, which I was really surprised about. However, the WHO have recently changed the guidelines for what is normal, see the link below:
> https://infertilityblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/sperm-morphology-new-guidelines.html
> 
> Fortunately he has quite a good count, although his motility is a little under what it should be at 43% (should be 50% and over).
> 
> Having said that, we still are not pregnant! Awaiting HyCoSy and CD21 bloods for me.
> 
> Good Luck!

Thanks Tomo I read the blog, it explains why there is so much varying info on sperm parameters. 
My dh has similar motility: 44% and 45%, total counts 18 mil and 17 mil. I know what you mean it is surprising that ok the WHO has lowered the figures so technically my dh's SAs are within normal range now, my GP has still referred us and stated it was 'low'. He may not be up to speed with things but I'm thankful as maybe we can have more investigations, but we too are still not pregnant with or without relaxing with or without supplements/smoking/good diet etc! 

Ive had CD21 bloods back all ok just waiting for gynae now, lets hope our appointments friggin come soon! x


----------



## Tomo

Hi Lozmo,

It is surpising especially what I had read on here concerning morphology. I really thought morphology was our problem, but I guess it pays to look at the whole picture, count, motility, morph etc, rather than the numbers in isolation. I am now beginning to think that something may be wrong with me... I wasn't able to get my HyCoSy done this month- lack of appointments, which is quite frustrating, but it gives us another chance of trying on our own before it. 

We were quite lucky to get our appointment with our FS quite quickly. He did suggest that we both reduce our alcohol intake to under 5 units a week and for Mr Tomo to take antioxidants as there are some studies that suggest that this can help with motility. He's already on Wellman, vit C and Zinc and pycnogenol (which is an antioxidant). 

Good luck with your future investigations. :flower:


----------



## Step Mummy

Hi Ladies

Maybe there is hope for all of us!?!?!

I have just counted the list, there were around 40 of us listed with male factor issues, and out of that there seems to be around 9 of us who got a BFP - that is quite a positive outcome I think for the last couple of months! 

We are just waiting for the SSR operation now, so I am really hoping that they find our little swimmers - so we have the chance of ICSI!

Good luck to all
X


----------



## beadyeyes

Hi, unfortunately i think I'm joining you.

We've been TTC for 12 months and had a chemical pregnancy in January (4th cycle TTC) so we didn't think there was anything wrong. We got DH's sperm analysis back and the only info I have at present is 4 million count (dr said it should be around 40 million), 36% motility and 3% fast movement. We've been referred to the hospital :(


----------



## Leila Fae

Welcome beadyeyes! 

Hope you manage to get some answers from your hospital appointment. :flower:


----------



## bbdreams

Well, here I am to join you girls, unfortunately.  DH as low morphology and low motility. We are waiting to schedule an appointment with a fertility specialist.


----------



## Leila Fae

We saw the FS a few weeks ago and as it had been a year since either of us had been tested DH did another SA. We had a call from the GP this morning and he said that morphology is still low but that the count is low too. The count was fine last year so I'm very keen to get a copy of the results so I can compare them against the first set. DH is picking up a copy from the surgery tomorrow.


----------



## maaybe2010

Moderate oligozoospermia with raised ASAb's.
Also not good morphology :(


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## Step Mummy

Welcome ladies, my DH has his SSR this morning, there is no room to wait at the hospital so they like you to leave, so I have come in to work for a couple of hours to help kill the time, I am quite scarred that they are going to give us bad news, as this indiciations have not been good - there is no evident reason why the sperm is not coming out. Fingers crossed they find some! I feel so sorry for my DH, he was so worried this morning, bless him! I just cant wait to hear that he is fine and has woken up, you always worry about things going wrong don;t you?!


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## brumbar

bump


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## Deb111

Hi ladies

To cut a long story short
- hubby diagnosed with azoospermia
- SSR procedure on 28th Oct found 3 healthy, well developed, motile sperm
- NHS (god love 'em!!!) say need minimum of 100 to freeze for IVF / ICSI cycle so just discarded them! 
- We have spoken to Dr Turek in the US, who says it's excellent news that hubby's making some, but was horrified by the NHS's procedures and criteria and said hubby should be on clomid as he has very low testosterone levels

Has anyone had any experience of their hubby's / partners taking clomid? and successes?

Thanks
Deb x


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## Lucie73821

Hi Deb. My dh just started clomid about a week ago. He has low count and morphology. He also just had a varicocele repaired two weeks ago. Our urologist said that we would have to have a repeat SA done in February, because it would take that long for a change to show in the SA. 

Sorry I don't have any concrete info for you.


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## Quaver

Deb111 said:


> Has anyone had any experience of their hubby's / partners taking clomid? and successes?

My DH started taking Clomid 25mg, it's fiddly cutting them in half:hissy:

He has 22% (3% fast) motility & 1% morphology. His hormone levels are normal.
Hoping it'll work:happydance:


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## Quaver

Lucie73821 said:


> February, because it would take that long for a change to show in the SA.

February?:sleep: (DH started Clomid 3 days ago).


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## Leila Fae

Quaver, I used to have to cut tablets in half and I found a handy pill cutter in the chemist which makes it so much easier :thumbup:


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## Quaver

Leila Fae said:


> Quaver, I used to have to cut tablets in half and I found a handy pill cutter in the chemist which makes it so much easier :thumbup:

Really? Will look for one tomorrow:thumbup:


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## Lucie73821

Quaver said:


> Lucie73821 said:
> 
> 
> February, because it would take that long for a change to show in the SA.
> 
> February?:sleep: (DH started Clomid 3 days ago).Click to expand...

The urologist said it would take 3-4 months for a change to show in dh's SA. It seems like forever to wait!


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## Quaver

Leila Fae said:


> Quaver, I used to have to cut tablets in half and I found a handy pill cutter in the chemist which makes it so much easier :thumbup:

Got it and used it, brilliant! Thanks!!:happydance:


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## Leila Fae

Excellent! :thumbup:


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## amirini

We have Male Factor; Retrograde Ejaculation.. after retrieval of sperm we have a count currently ranging from 5-1.4 mil post wash.. We are currently on IUI #3


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## TheMrs.28

Hi Ladies - My DH has had a lot of chemotherapy treatments in the past, though he has been healthy and treatment free since August 09. Whoo Hoo. Last SA was in Dec 08, and the count was a whopping ZERO! Fast forward almost 2 years and we are really wanting to add to the family again.

DH has been good and healthy for over a year, eating better and taking a lot of vitamins. He started Fertilaid for men in September and we have TTC for 2 cycles so far with no luck. It could be that he will never regain sperm production, but I am sure hoping he does. Just curious when the best time would be to go back for SA after starting the Fertilaid. 

Thanks Ladies :)


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## Debbie82

We have male factor, don't have exact number except for it is bad - really bad!!! So bad they said if the last result had been handed in for ICSI they may not have considered it:cry:

Luckily the previous sample would've been good enough so we know he has it in him.

Currently waiting on scan of his bits and results of blood for testing to see if he is a cystic fibrosis carrier. I think the FS also mentioned chromosonal testing but can't remember as couldn't hear properly through the tears.


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## Reilley

We have male issues too. 1 million count, barely moving. :cry:Hubby takes Vitamines etc. now and we are waiting for a new SA at the end of Jan. Then he will be on the vitamines for two month. Is that too eearly for another Sa?:shrug:


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## Deb111

Reilley said:


> We have male issues too. 1 million count, barely moving. :cry:Hubby takes Vitamines etc. now and we are waiting for a new SA at the end of Jan. Then he will be on the vitamines for two month. Is that too eearly for another Sa?:shrug:


Sperm take 90-100 days to form from start to fully formed. Nothing your hubby takes will change those that have already started to form before starting on the vitamins. So, to see any change, you need to wait for at least 3 months before having another SA.

Good luck to you both 
Deb


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## Deb111

Just wondering if anyone's dh's have seen Dr Ramsay (urologist) in London? We're thinking about booking a consultation with him about my hubby's azoospermia


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## Mrs. V

Anyone's DH's sperm disappeared due to extremely low FSH levels?
Or anyone know of Ovidrel and Menopur injections for this problem?
I hope there is someone out there with the same issue.
Testosterone is normal.


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## Mrs. V

I guess we are the only ones with this problem....


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## MissAma

Deb111 - I know of another forum where people have "a Ramsey pregnancy" meaning saw them and were successful!

Mrs V - No, never heard of it, in my time -meaning nearly a year ago now:)- the consensus was that no substance -hormone replacement or Clomid- were efficient and the best way was SSR and ICSI but would be interested to hear more. What clinic are you with?


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## Mrs. V

MissAma said:


> Deb111 - I know of another forum where people have "a Ramsey pregnancy" meaning saw them and were successful!
> 
> Mrs V - No, never heard of it, in my time -meaning nearly a year ago now:)- the consensus was that no substance -hormone replacement or Clomid- were efficient and the best way was SSR and ICSI but would be interested to hear more. What clinic are you with?

Hi! We went to a fertility clinic in Cape Town, South Africa.
On the day my DH produced no sperm. Did an emergency TESE, still nothing.
We were going to do ICSI, but no sperm, so 25 of my eggs are frozen.
Actually pointless as I'm 100% fine.


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## Deb111

Mrs. V said:


> Anyone's DH's sperm disappeared due to extremely low FSH levels?
> Or anyone know of Ovidrel and Menopur injections for this problem?
> I hope there is someone out there with the same issue.
> Testosterone is normal.

Hiya - thought you might like to pop over and join the azoospermia thread. there are quite a few of us there whose dh's have no sperm - for many different reasons. Not sure about the injections you talk about but it'd be great to pop over so we can all share info

https://www.babyandbump.com/problems-trying-conceive/376424-dealing-azoospermia.html


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## cottonlily

DH has low count with abnormal motility and morphology. At the last IUI we had about 440,000 total to work with. Considering half those aren't shaped right and half of those aren't moving we had slim chances even with IUI. We're moving on to donor sperm now bc he won't do IVF.


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## Mrs. V

Deb111 said:


> Mrs. V said:
> 
> 
> Anyone's DH's sperm disappeared due to extremely low FSH levels?
> Or anyone know of Ovidrel and Menopur injections for this problem?
> I hope there is someone out there with the same issue.
> Testosterone is normal.
> 
> Hiya - thought you might like to pop over and join the azoospermia thread. there are quite a few of us there whose dh's have no sperm - for many different reasons. Not sure about the injections you talk about but it'd be great to pop over so we can all share info
> 
> https://www.babyandbump.com/problems-trying-conceive/376424-dealing-azoospermia.htmlClick to expand...

Will come over and join you! Thank you.


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## Mrs. V

cottonlily said:


> DH has low count with abnormal motility and morphology. At the last IUI we had about 440,000 total to work with. Considering half those aren't shaped right and half of those aren't moving we had slim chances even with IUI. We're moving on to donor sperm now bc he won't do IVF.

Why doesn't your DH want to do IVF?


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## Reilley

cottonlily said:


> DH has low count with abnormal motility and morphology. At the last IUI we had about 440,000 total to work with. Considering half those aren't shaped right and half of those aren't moving we had slim chances even with IUI. We're moving on to donor sperm now bc he won't do IVF.

Hi there! Just wondering,:wacko: how are the numbers for IUI in your country? Over here you have to have at least 15 million swimmers :sad2:to do IUI. Below that they wont do it, the only option then is IVF and ICSI.:shy:


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## Quaver

Lucie73821 said:


> Quaver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucie73821 said:
> 
> 
> February, because it would take that long for a change to show in the SA.
> 
> February?:sleep: (DH started Clomid 3 days ago).Click to expand...
> 
> The urologist said it would take 3-4 months for a change to show in dh's SA. It seems like forever to wait!Click to expand...

OK so it's not February yet, but we had another IUI and SA, and his motile sperm count jumped from 13 million in Oct 2010 to 28 million post wash today!:happydance:

Seems Clomid is doing its magic:thumbup:


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## Reilley

Congrats Quaver!:thumbup:!!!!!!!!!!!Babydust to you!:hug:


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## Traskey

:hi: everyone

I am going to read back through your thread for your shared wisdom, but just wanted to say hi!


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## Reilley

HI girls, :blush:I am just looking into IUI with donor sperm. Anybody knows anything about it?:wacko:


hi Traskey....welcome on board!:hi:


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## Traskey

Thanks Reilly :hi:

I've read through the entire thread now, very interesting. I don't know the cut off point for sperm count and IUI but I can tell you that with 10 million the only option is IVF.


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## Lucie73821

Quaver said:


> Lucie73821 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quaver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucie73821 said:
> 
> 
> February, because it would take that long for a change to show in the SA.
> 
> February?:sleep: (DH started Clomid 3 days ago).Click to expand...
> 
> The urologist said it would take 3-4 months for a change to show in dh's SA. It seems like forever to wait!Click to expand...
> 
> OK so it's not February yet, but we had another IUI and SA, and his motile sperm count jumped from 13 million in Oct 2010 to 28 million post wash today!:happydance:
> 
> Seems Clomid is doing its magic:thumbup:Click to expand...

Amazing!!!!! My dh will be going in in a few weeks and I hope his results are just as good!


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## Quaver

Lucie73821 said:


> Amazing!!!!! My dh will be going in in a few weeks and I hope his results are just as good!

Good luck!:happydance:


Traskey said:


> we don't qualify for this under the PCT as my BMI is too high. I am working on that and doing Weight Watchers but am running out of time (39 birthday soon and you need at least 6 months prior to 40). We don't have the money for private IVF.

You have 6 months, as long as you could show the doctor that you are making the effort, s/he may let you have IVF? Good luck on weight watchers:flower:


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## Traskey

Morning ladies, I have a question that I am hoping one of you can help me with. I am due to ovulate soon, probably by Friday and usually DH and I dtd every other day during high and peak fertility. However, since he got the diagnosis of his low sperm count last week he's worried that having sex like this isn't working. He has asked us to wait until I ovulate and to abstain from sex until then. His sperm moprhology and motility were ok but we weren't told the numbers. The sperm count was 10 mill (low). 

We didn't get any advice on this, just told IVF would be the only option. We are still trying to conceive naturally, hoping for a miracle! Not sure though that this is the right way forward.

Does anyone have any opinions? Many thanks.


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## Quaver

Traskey said:


> Morning ladies, I have a question that I am hoping one of you can help me with. I am due to ovulate soon, probably by Friday and usually DH and I dtd every other day during high and peak fertility. However, since he got the diagnosis of his low sperm count last week he's worried that having sex like this isn't working. He has asked us to wait until I ovulate and to abstain from sex until then. His sperm moprhology and motility were ok but we weren't told the numbers. The sperm count was 10 mill (low).
> 
> Does anyone have any opinions? Many thanks.

My DH has low count. We did IUI. 

On the 1st IUI (Oct 2010) he produced 13 million (post wash) after abstaining for 2 1/2 days. 
He was prescribed Clomid 25mg/night in November, and on our latest IUI he produced 28 million (post wash) after abstaining for a week:happydance:

So abstaining for longer seems to work:thumbup: It could also be because of Clomid, but it hasn't been 3 month yet, so it may have been too early for Clomid to do its magic:shrug: Otherwise, he abstained alcohol for a week too which may be another thing:flower:

His morphology is 4% on the 1st IUI, 3% on the 2nd IUI.

Good luck:dust:


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## Mrs. V

Traskey said:


> Morning ladies, I have a question that I am hoping one of you can help me with. I am due to ovulate soon, probably by Friday and usually DH and I dtd every other day during high and peak fertility. However, since he got the diagnosis of his low sperm count last week he's worried that having sex like this isn't working. He has asked us to wait until I ovulate and to abstain from sex until then. His sperm moprhology and motility were ok but we weren't told the numbers. The sperm count was 10 mill (low).
> 
> We didn't get any advice on this, just told IVF would be the only option. We are still trying to conceive naturally, hoping for a miracle! Not sure though that this is the right way forward.
> 
> Does anyone have any opinions? Many thanks.

Abstaining from sex for too long is very bad! I would say keep to every other day.
Or non-fertile stage: every 3rd or 4th day and peak fertile stage: every 2nd day
Good luck!


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## Traskey

Thanks for the advice ladies, we will talk it through as a couple and make a decision from there. I wish when we had these FS appointments that they handed over a bit more information than they do. Either that or you didn't have to wait so long between appointments to find the answers to your questions.

:hug:


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## wifey29

Hi ladies, mind if I join you?

We have been trying for 16 months and have just found out that DH has a very low count (about 1.3 million) and abnormalities all over the place. Also I don't seem to be ovulating. Our gp has referred us to the FS so I'm not sure what happens from here. We just wait in limbo I guess.

xx


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## Quaver

wifey29 said:


> Hi ladies, mind if I join you?
> 
> We have been trying for 16 months and have just found out that DH has a very low count (about 1.3 million) and abnormalities all over the place. Also I don't seem to be ovulating. Our gp has referred us to the FS so I'm not sure what happens from here. We just wait in limbo I guess.
> 
> xx

:hugs:
You can't really decide with one SA, and it can improve.
As for ov, they'll probably give you something like Clomid to see if it'll do the trick. Otherwise there's IVF.


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## Traskey

:hi: wifey

They will probably send you for a second SA and check your bloods again. We are taking Wellman Conception to try and improve the sperm count. Quaver is right, if you aren't ovulating then you are usally offered Clomid to see if that helps. They'll probably do a scan or lap and dye to check your insides too.


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## wifey29

Thanks ladies. DH has another pot and will be giving a second sample next week. Our doc recommended taking zinc and selenium, but he has been taking them for eight months already. Neither of us smoke and drink only very rarely. I hope that clomid will work and that there are enough swimmers to make it through.


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## Traskey

There is always a chance Wifey. Keep going for it whilst you wait for the results of all the tests. Well, that's what we are doing:D


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## wifey29

Thanks Trasky, we are going to keep trying just incase one gets through. We are not giving up without a mammoth fight!


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