# Denied waterbirth



## MissSazra

Hi everyone!

As the title says, I've just seen my consultant and been told a waterbirth is out of the question due to high bmi. She quite freely admitted I'm fit and healthy and I'm very mobile. I was told they have baths, but to be honest, that's not what I want as I'll be made to get out to give birth.

So is that it now, or could I try a different hospital? I really had my heart set on this, as it just looks so much more relaxed and calm.

Any help would be great,

Thanks


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## Mum2b_Claire

Why would your BMI mean you can't have a waterbirth? I don't understand personally. Did she explain at all?


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## MissSazra

All she said was that with a high bmi I wouldn't be able to use the midwife led unit (which is in the hospital) and that's where the pool is. The consultant led unit is in another part I'm guessing, and where I'll be ending up. 

Having said I was fit and well, I don't see why it should be a problem either!


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## Mum2b_Claire

Sounds like they've labelled you high risk just because of your BMI then, as MLUs only tend to take low risk women.
Are there any other hospitals you could consider? Or could you consider a homebirth? You don't need anybody to 'allow' you that. I'd personally be wanting to avoid a consultant led unit if your pregnancy is straightforward.


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## tristansmum

i think it might be to do with being able to get a person out of the pool if there became a problem. Please bear with me while i try to find a "PC" way of writing this LOL

So if a woman who is overweight/obese suddenly fainted or there was a major problem whilst in the pool the MW might not be able to get her out safely...ie they might not be able to lift her out. I am a nurse and its very difficult as we have a minimal lifting policy... so basically we are NOT allow to lift up a patient. now obviously if someone needs to be moved who can't do it themselves then we need to use special equipment and the correct number of people. If we were sujected to lifting people all day everyday our backs would be distroyed.

So i think it might be down to the fact that first MW led units only have a small number of staff and they may not have lifting equipment to get you out of the pool if you became unable to help yourself.

Now a high BMI might mean anything- you could be 1lb overweight or 100lbs overweight but unfortunately a hospital has to put guidelines into place to protect everyne and they will always have a cut off point. Does that make sense????

Might be worth looking into someother hospital though cause my labour ward had one birthing pool on it. hope you can get what you want xxxxxxxx


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## birdiex

They usually turn women down for waterbirths with a high BMI because of the manufacturers instructions for the pool. What you could do instead is home water-birth, or you could sit in the bath and the consultant-led unit and just refuse to get out! :thumbup:


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## MissSazra

I think it'll be tricky trying to find another hospital, looking at about 40 miles for the next nearest one.

Thanks for all the replies so far. Guess I'll have to keep looking into it all!


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## Bournefree

You dont have to change hospitals. You don't have to accept your consultants "advice" (afterall that is ALL it is)

Contact your MW, explain what the consultant said, and explain your wish for a water birth.. she has a duty to act on your behalf and be your advocate (under Nursing and Midwifery council rules). She should if appropriate escalte your concerns to one of the supervisors of midwifes (they work under the Local Services Authorty) and to your head of Midwifery at the hospital Midwifery lead unit.

You don't need anyones permission to have a waterbirth - you just need a free pool on the day.

Sorry about this, but it needs to be said twice - any of yor healthcare professionals (Drs OR Midwives) can only recommend and advise. They can't not make choices for you. It is your decision.

Let us know how you get on with your MW - call her ASAP, while it is all fresh in your mind and get an appointment with her if necessary.

Xxx


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## MissSazra

Thank you Bournefree, I shall try and give her a call this afternoon.


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## chuck

If not hun think about this...there is nothing that can be done in a birth centre that cannot be done at home.

So why not stay at home, that way no one can tell you you can't use the pool - hire or buy or borrow one its your and it wont be busy or being cleaned or what ever!


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## lozzy21

You will find those guidelines in every hospital and MLU im afraid, even if you try to fight it they can just use the manufacturers instructions as a reason you cant use one since they do have a weight limit on them. 

If you have your heart set on a water birth then i would have a think about a home birth since there they can do exactly the same at home as they can in the MLU


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## Bournefree

I totally agree with Chuck and Lozzy

The only way to make sure you have a water birth is to do it at home - there won't be someone else in it (you hope?!?, OH or cats?), when you want to use it.

Water births are very popular and most units only have 2 at the most.. so It can be a bit hit and miss at the best of times in a Birthing centre or a hospital MW lead unit.

It was one of the reasons for me being at home (among many others), for my first and this birth.

You have all the same equipment, drugs and expertise at home as you have in a MW lead unit or birth centre, and I would argue better care - as you have at least one ot one care with a midwife.. they don't/can't leave you to go attend another women in labour at the same time as you.

Again that is your choice.
XxX


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## MissSazra

My only concern is that if I have a home birth I'll be 20 miles from the hospital should there be any complications. But I have certainly thought about doing it, especially as I'm not that keen on hospitals anyway!

Thanks again, great replies with great advice!


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## chuck

Hun 20 miles isnt a problem.

I live 20 miles from 2 hospitals (1 I would never chose to go to again) 1 is a 20 min drive the other is 35 minutes or thereabouts.

I chose to HBAC...the transfer time was never an issue, you will have the 100% attention of your MW who will be able to spot any early warning signs of anything needing intervention and that will be things really needing intervention not just you running out of time or 'failing to progress' or all the other bullshit reasons for interventions given in hospital. 

In a hospital you will not have 1 Mw who is able to give you 100% of her attention.

Plus I can speak form experience that laboring at home is a million times easier and better than laboring in a hospital. I was able to have a bath, cook and eat a casserole, bath my toddler and put him to bed, do an online grocery shop and watch some TV it was brilliant.

I hadnt even noticed how frequent or long my contractions were (yes they were intense enough all I could do wa shut my eyes and breathe through them) when Mum said I think you should call the MW and your husband dear...by the time the MW got to me I was 7/8cm and hadn't even had paracetamol.

I transfered in the end but for the best of reasons and I still got a natural birth but for the GnA.

If you want a pool consider being at home, chosing a HB was the best decision I ever made even without the actual home birth bit LOL


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## MissSazra

That does sound like a good option. Especially as the consultant also told me today that I _could_ have a bigger baby and it _might_ need help delivering with instruments. I certainly don't want that, and fear that they may make me do this when I don't actually need it. My baby is measuring perfectly for 19 weeks, it is not a giant baby at this stage, so I don't see why things would suddenly change (although I'm aware that they can!)

She also has me referred to the anaesthetist in case I need an epidural or caesarean. Talk about predicting the worst for my birth. I know for certain I don't want an epidural, but of course if I need a caesarean then so be it.

I shall be considering and researching a home birth very seriously now though. My mw is phoning me Friday so I shall ask her about everything.


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## Foogirl

Just out of interest, and sorry to hijack, but if you want a home birth, do you really just tell them that is what you are doing and they have to send a midwife to you? What if there are none available?


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## lozzy21

Foogirl said:


> Just out of interest, and sorry to hijack, but if you want a home birth, do you really just tell them that is what you are doing and they have to send a midwife to you? What if there are none available?

Idealy you tell them your wishes as early on in your pregnancy as possible so they can fill in the relivent paperwork and they usualy deliver the birth pack at 36/37 weeks. You just then ring them once your in labour.

Its the community midwifes that come out to you not the midwifes from the hospital so the chances of some one else having a homebirth and being in labour at the same time as you are small.


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## lozzy21

MissSazra said:


> That does sound like a good option. Especially as the consultant also told me today that I _could_ have a bigger baby and it _might_ need help delivering with instruments. I certainly don't want that, and fear that they may make me do this when I don't actually need it. My baby is measuring perfectly for 19 weeks, it is not a giant baby at this stage, so I don't see why things would suddenly change (although I'm aware that they can!)
> 
> She also has me referred to the anaesthetist in case I need an epidural or caesarean. Talk about predicting the worst for my birth. I know for certain I don't want an epidural, but of course if I need a caesarean then so be it.
> 
> I shall be considering and researching a home birth very seriously now though. My mw is phoning me Friday so I shall ask her about everything.

Thats standard for every one with a high BMI, I went to mine, the consultant asked if i planed on having one, said not unless i needed a section, had a quick feel of my back and a look down my throat. He said they would be no problems if i did need an epi or a general. He then joked and said he hoped never to see me again. I found he was one of the most positive doctors i met during my routine appointments.

With a high bmi most cases of baby being big are due to the women developing gestational diabeties and as far as i could find they were no studies that showed women having a high BMI led to big babys when the mother dident have GD.


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## chuck

ergh of course because you are bigger you will have to be growing a baby so huge it wont fit <facepalm>

Hun, there is no reason you should be lumped in with the higher risk pregnancies just because you happen to be a bit bigger.

It is your choice to birth how you want and HB seems like a very good option for you.


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## JD'2

Bournefree said:


> I totally agree with Chuck and Lozzy
> 
> The only way to make sure you have a water birth is to do it at home - there won't be someone else in it (you hope?!?, OH or cats?), when you want to use it.
> 
> Water births are very popular and most units only have 2 at the most.. so It can be a bit hit and miss at the best of times in a Birthing centre or a hospital MW lead unit.
> 
> It was one of the reasons for me being at home (among many others), for my first and this birth.
> 
> You have all the same equipment, drugs and expertise at home as you have in a MW lead unit or birth centre, and I would argue better care - as you have at least one ot one care with a midwife.. they don't/can't leave you to go attend another women in labour at the same time as you.
> 
> Again that is your choice.
> XxX

you had your first at home???????

i have been told because of high BMI and this is first i'm NOT allowed. BMI only 32.2 and recommended 30. you might get same as me if you ask for home birth. i'm well gutted:nope:


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## lozzy21

JD'2 said:


> Bournefree said:
> 
> 
> I totally agree with Chuck and Lozzy
> 
> The only way to make sure you have a water birth is to do it at home - there won't be someone else in it (you hope?!?, OH or cats?), when you want to use it.
> 
> Water births are very popular and most units only have 2 at the most.. so It can be a bit hit and miss at the best of times in a Birthing centre or a hospital MW lead unit.
> 
> It was one of the reasons for me being at home (among many others), for my first and this birth.
> 
> You have all the same equipment, drugs and expertise at home as you have in a MW lead unit or birth centre, and I would argue better care - as you have at least one ot one care with a midwife.. they don't/can't leave you to go attend another women in labour at the same time as you.
> 
> Again that is your choice.
> XxX
> 
> you had your first at home???????
> 
> i have been told because of high BMI and this is first i'm NOT allowed. BMI only 32.2 and recommended 30. you might get same as me if you ask for home birth. i'm well gutted:nope:Click to expand...

No one can tell you that you are not allowed to have a homebirth. They are going against there policys by doing so. If you want a homebirth tell them you are having one and they have to support you.

My BMI was 41 and i was booked in for a home birth, her being my first was never mentioned.


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## Foogirl

lozzy21 said:


> Idealy you tell them your wishes as early on in your pregnancy as possible so they can fill in the relivent paperwork and they usualy deliver the birth pack at 36/37 weeks. You just then ring them once your in labour.
> 
> Its the community midwifes that come out to you not the midwifes from the hospital so the chances of some one else having a homebirth and being in labour at the same time as you are small.

It was never something that was offered in early days, but I never even got as far as a birth plan so I have no idea if it would have come up at some point. I assume they don't "offer" it as a service if they can help it.

Not that it matters, having had a preemie by C-section under GA, I would assume I'm considered high risk the next time round.


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## lozzy21

Foogirl said:


> lozzy21 said:
> 
> 
> Idealy you tell them your wishes as early on in your pregnancy as possible so they can fill in the relivent paperwork and they usualy deliver the birth pack at 36/37 weeks. You just then ring them once your in labour.
> 
> Its the community midwifes that come out to you not the midwifes from the hospital so the chances of some one else having a homebirth and being in labour at the same time as you are small.
> 
> It was never something that was offered in early days, but I never even got as far as a birth plan so I have no idea if it would have come up at some point. I assume they don't "offer" it as a service if they can help it.
> 
> Not that it matters, having had a preemie by C-section under GA, I would assume I'm considered high risk the next time round.Click to expand...

It depends on your area, i was asked at my booking apointment if i had a preference but others have had to ask about it. Having a section doesent mean you cant have a home birth as long as you get to full term obviously. They have are a few girls on here that have done it


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## Foogirl

lozzy21 said:


> It depends on your area, i was asked at my booking apointment if i had a preference but others have had to ask about it. Having a section doesent mean you cant have a home birth as long as you get to full term obviously. They have are a few girls on here that have done it

I think it is the emergency part of it that would give them concern, I bled really heavily after my waters broke. But I'll certainly be asking the question.


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## chuck

Foogirl...haivng had a preemie makes your hugher risk and having had a section puts you in the higher risk category.

Now the previous CS means you have a risk of uterine rupture a tiny risk less than 1% and VBAC is better for you and baby all round than a repeat CS but still reason for you not to homebirth - I planned an HBAC with no difficulty or opposition from anyone other tha the OB who I saw once found them crap so didnt bother seeing them again.

The Preemie on the other hand...was there any reason found for the early entrance of your LO? If it was something that is unlikely or unknown whether it will occur again then plan a home birth...if you dont get to term then nothing is lost.

Planning my HBAC was the best decision I ever made - I didnt quite get my homebirth but nearly!


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## chuck

JD'2 said:


> you had your first at home???????
> 
> *i have been told because of high BMI and this is first i'm NOT allowed*. BMI only 32.2 and recommended 30. you might get same as me if you ask for home birth. i'm well gutted:nope:

BULLSHIT....there's no such thing.

Those words may come out of someones mouth but they can only recommend that you birth in an OB led unit...you cannot be forced there.


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## becsparkel

MissSazra said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> As the title says, I've just seen my consultant and been told a waterbirth is out of the question due to high bmi. She quite freely admitted I'm fit and healthy and I'm very mobile. I was told they have baths, but to be honest, that's not what I want as I'll be made to get out to give birth.
> 
> So is that it now, or could I try a different hospital? I really had my heart set on this, as it just looks so much more relaxed and calm.
> 
> Any help would be great,
> 
> Thanks

Exact same thing happened to me. My BMI was calculated at 36 and the cut off for my local MLU is 35. So I was told no at my booking appt. Luckily my midwife realised she'd made a mistake in the rounding and put me at 35, so I can use it if I want to.

Have decided to have a home birth now with my own pool and feel much happier about it!! 

I'm also getting the large women have large babies cr*ap - sonographer booked me for 32 growth scan without explaining why, she just gave me a note to give to the receptionist and disappeared before I could ask her. I've since asked and it is because of my BMI... grrr, was worried about the baby's 20 wk scan measurements. 

I'd agree with the other ladies here, if you can't use the MLU and really want a water birth, hire a pool and have a home birth. Good luck hon x


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## Foogirl

chuck said:


> Foogirl...haivng had a preemie makes your hugher risk and having had a section puts you in the higher risk category.
> 
> Now the previous CS means you have a risk of uterine rupture a tiny risk less than 1% and VBAC is better for you and baby all round than a repeat CS but still reason for you not to homebirth - I planned an HBAC with no difficulty or opposition from anyone other tha the OB who I saw once found them crap so didnt bother seeing them again.
> 
> The Preemie on the other hand...was there any reason found for the early entrance of your LO? If it was something that is unlikely or unknown whether it will occur again then plan a home birth...if you dont get to term then nothing is lost.
> 
> Planning my HBAC was the best decision I ever made - I didnt quite get my homebirth but nearly!

I thought VBAC was a higher risk? But I haven't really looked too far into it yet.

We have no idea why Abby came so early. In fact, she didn't come early, they went in to get her out when I started bleeding. Although I lost my waters, I hadn't gone into labour at all so they reckon I would have continued with pregnancy, possibly to full term. I did have a low lying placenta though. Not quite previa, but enough for them to warn I might need a section if it didn't move. Again, as I never got that far I have no idea if it would have moved. Given everything that went wrong, I do have a "what if" fear about not being in hospital. Having said that, the new one is only ten minutes away so close enough in an emergency.


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## Tegans Mama

chuck said:


> JD'2 said:
> 
> 
> you had your first at home???????
> 
> *i have been told because of high BMI and this is first i'm NOT allowed*. BMI only 32.2 and recommended 30. you might get same as me if you ask for home birth. i'm well gutted:nope:
> 
> BULLSHIT....there's no such thing.
> 
> Those words may come out of someones mouth but they can only recommend that you birth in an OB led unit...you cannot be forced there.Click to expand...

NIcely said Chuck!!!!

Please never ever accept "you're not allowed" as an answer!!!! What a load of bloody horse shite, they can't tell what you're allowed to do! If they don't "allow you" a home birth, you can stay at home, ring them, refuse to go in, and they HAVE to attend you. It's illegal for a MW to refuse to attend you when you're labouring or birthing. 

I had a high BMI during my first pregnancy (it was 32) and they tried to refuse me a HB. I never had one because of complications with LO that literally meant she wouldn't survive being born vaginally but it'll take a lot to get me in a hospital next time :winkwink: 

Foogirl, VBAC is "higher" risk than a RCS but it's far better for your body and the baby too. AS long as your scar has had more than a year to heal, you should be fine to have a VBAC. Some hospitals do integrity scans (to see how well healed the scar is) and assess your risk percentage from that (my local one does sometimes) but TBH they are a load of codswallop. They're about as accurate as growth scans - not very!


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## Bournefree

lozzy21 said:


> JD'2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bournefree said:
> 
> 
> I totally agree with Chuck and Lozzy
> 
> The only way to make sure you have a water birth is to do it at home - there won't be someone else in it (you hope?!?, OH or cats?), when you want to use it.
> 
> Water births are very popular and most units only have 2 at the most.. so It can be a bit hit and miss at the best of times in a Birthing centre or a hospital MW lead unit.
> 
> It was one of the reasons for me being at home (among many others), for my first and this birth.
> 
> You have all the same equipment, drugs and expertise at home as you have in a MW lead unit or birth centre, and I would argue better care - as you have at least one ot one care with a midwife.. they don't/can't leave you to go attend another women in labour at the same time as you.
> 
> Again that is your choice.
> XxX
> 
> you had your first at home???????
> 
> i have been told because of high BMI and this is first i'm NOT allowed. BMI only 32.2 and recommended 30. you might get same as me if you ask for home birth. i'm well gutted:nope:Click to expand...
> 
> No one can tell you that you are not allowed to have a homebirth. They are going against their policies by doing so. If you want a homebirth tell them you are having one and they have to support you.
> 
> My BMI was 41 and i was booked in for a home birth, her being my first was never mentioned.Click to expand...

Oh Yes first at home! (couldn't imagine doing it any other way now)
.. and I have to say that my BMI with my daughter on booking was 30+ and I DID have gestational diabetes. It well controlled, no indications from late scans that there would be any problems with size of babies tummy.. so I didn't accept that I had to be in hospital, induced and labelled as "high" risk.. as the clinical evidence simply wasn't there.. it was some silly hospital policy - well as an individual, I don't usually undergo risky treatments because of mere policy¬!

sometimes people (MWs, women, and the general population), forget or just don't know their "birth rights" and birth choices.

Not directed at anyone here (as in general we are the inquisitive ones who dont just accept whatever we are told by one person) - but I have lost count of the number of women who are staggered that I was "allowed" to have a home birth for a first baby.. and then when they found out I was under extensive joint Obst/MWlead care, they almost take a step back! Every women should take responsibility for their own choices and bodies, and not let or allow a medical professional to make those decisions for you.

Every women regardless of presentation should know there are at least 3 options for location of birth (some places 4, if there is a stand alone birth centre near you), which are:

1 - Home
2 - Stand alone Birth centre (Midwife lead unit not attached to a hospital with an Obst unit)
3 - Midwifery lead unit (attached to a hospital WITH a Obst unit)
4 - Obst lead unit

There are various things that you can and can not get with each of these choices and women should be made aware of all of the options and their rights to choose anyone of them, no matter any recommendations, advice or even policy, there is no such thing as "let" or "allowed" in child birth... it is demoralising, controlling.

Sorry I/we might have hijacked this as a home birth thread - but it isn't that at all.. It is about choices and birth rights of every women!

For example: It shouldn't be that some women who really want to give birth in a hospital choose a home birth.. because they can't trust in the Drs or MW to respect and enable their choices. Also some women who feel so bullied by the "system" and who would like a MW to attend them at home, but feel they cant trust them, will choose to birth at home without a MW present. Which I personally think is very sad... when it wasn't what they wanted in the first place.

OP - please let us know how you get on Friday! 
...and if you do consider homebirth.. have a read of www.homebirth.org for some initial back ground reading or ask anyone of us home birthers any questions you like! ;-)

XXx


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## irish_cob

My BMI is about 37 or 38 and I'm planning a homebirth and yes, this is my first :) My OH is completely supportive which is fantastic, and I've got a fab doula booked, and the more I run into the medical profession, the more I hear about risk and tests and appointments, the more I just think "get knotted". They don't seem to have any faith in the human body. If my body can't birth my baby, I wouldn't have conceived, surely? I've not had a single problem with the pregnancy, been healthy and well, baby is fine, kicking away, and yet I'm supposed to go to pointless OB appointments because of my BMI, and because I had a small loop excision of some dodgy cells on my cervix back in 2007 which they've already told me they can do nothing about except monitor me in labour - so why do I need to see a consultant at 20 and 36 weeks? They know I'm fat, that's not going to change. I'm not going, I went for the 20 week one and it was pointless so I'm going to cancel the 36 week one.


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## chuck

Foogirl said:


> I thought VBAC was a higher risk? But I haven't really looked too far into it yet.
> 
> We have no idea why Abby came so early. In fact, she didn't come early, they went in to get her out when I started bleeding. Although I lost my waters, I hadn't gone into labour at all so they reckon I would have continued with pregnancy, possibly to full term. I did have a low lying placenta though. Not quite previa, but enough for them to warn I might need a section if it didn't move. Again, as I never got that far I have no idea if it would have moved. Given everything that went wrong, I do have a "what if" fear about not being in hospital. Having said that, the new one is only ten minutes away so close enough in an emergency.

Hmmmm sounds to me like it may have been a case of well you're here in hospital so lets gets baby out rather than wait and see but who knows, sometimes it's never apparent why things went the way they did...do you have a copy of your notes?

As for VBAC there are different risks comparing a VBAC to a RCS but going into labour and VBAC are better all around for you and baby - it is after all how they are supposed to arrive.

The risks are exactly the same for any birth but there is the additional risk of uterine rupture (which can by the way happen to an unscarred uterus) the risk of rupture is less than 1%, and rupture doesn't mean alien chest burster style nastiness going on, it can be a simple as stretching of the scar and bleeding but yes it can mean the scar literally rupturing on the inside.

But it is VERY rare and more often than not early warning signs are picked up on and things are managed before it becomes a problem. It will be recommended that you have constant monitoring to pick up on any signs of fetal distress but this is not the only indicator of UR.

Chances of success are the same as for any first time Mother around 75/80%

My problem with hospital VBAC is all the 'recommendations' set you up to fail! Lets take a Mother who had a CS last time so is very apprehensive, possibly fearful and perhaps even getting over PPD/PTSD and then tell her her uterus may rupture and that she needs to be next to a theatre 'just in case', that she will need to come into hospital very early in labour 'just in case'. she will need a cannula fitted 'just in case' and have constant monitoring 'just in case'.

<facepalm>

Okay so let me get this right for a woman who actually needs more support and encouragement and for whom a relaxed labour will be very important after last time you are in fact going to make her bored, uncomfortable, stick needles in her and stop he moving around - right so all this 'just in case' horse shit is actually so you can fail her at every turn!

All of those recommendations are made so hospitals can avoid litigation IF anything were to happen due to the labouring woman not having the support she really needs, and they are the opposite of what any labouring woman needs - to be comfortable and relaxed.

I would never have laboured as long as I did by simply breathing in a hospital I would have been bored senseless and unable to do what I wanted. Home was far better lol!


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## Foogirl

chuck said:


> Hmmmm sounds to me like it may have been a case of well you're here in hospital so lets gets baby out rather than wait and see but who knows, sometimes it's never apparent why things went the way they did...do you have a copy of your notes?
> 
> The risks are exactly the same for any birth but there is the additional risk of uterine rupture (which can by the way happen to an unscarred uterus) the risk of rupture is less than 1%, and rupture doesn't mean alien chest burster style nastiness going on, it can be a simple as stretching of the scar and bleeding but yes it can mean the scar literally rupturing on the inside.
> 
> But it is VERY rare and more often than not early warning signs are picked up on and things are managed before it becomes a problem. It will be recommended that you have constant monitoring to pick up on any signs of fetal distress but this is not the only indicator of UR.
> 
> My problem with hospital VBAC is all the 'recommendations' set you up to fail! Lets take a Mother who had a CS last time so is very apprehensive, possibly fearful and perhaps even getting over PPD/PTSD and then tell her her uterus may rupture and that she needs to be next to a theatre 'just in case', that she will need to come into hospital very early in labour 'just in case'. she will need a cannula fitted 'just in case' and have constant monitoring 'just in case'.

Oh I definitely had a lot of "just in case" cannulas, it was horrific. And a lot of "just in case" injections and blood tests etc. I will be more forceful next time.

I don't have a copy of my notes, but I will say in the hospital's defence, I had 3 major bleeds in the two weeks prior to her being born and on that particular night, the 4th bleed, I lost over two pints of blood. They thought they were going to lose me as the bleeding wouldn't stop and they were afraid the placenta had abrupted. 

I will certainly be discussing all the issues with my consultant next time round.


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## chuck

Keep in mind that no 2 pregnancies and labours will be the same. You bled last time, this time you are just as likely not too! 

You may decide to birth in abospital but you can decline all of the just in case shit you don't want. Say no to cannas and tests and things you do not want. This is t easy when you're expected to follow orders but make sure your birth partner k owe what you want or get a fouls to protect you. 

OB's can be very unsupportive of you even wanting a natural hospital birth let alone home birth after a complicated one. If you find them unsupportive then don't go back. If your pregnancy is uncomPlicated then why bother with the OB. 

I had 1 appt with an OB who pooh poohed me wanting to HBAC and told me it was dangerous. I told my MW and SHE said well I wouldn't bother going back it's a waste of time if they're not supportive.


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## MissSazra

So the midwife finally got back to me yesterday and said as she hadn't weighed me at the booking appointment, she hadn't realised my bmi was too high! 

She had recommended the local birthing centre previously, but when I told her the bmi she backtracked and said I would probably have to go to the obstetric unit at the hospital instead as agreed by the consultant.

She told me to see the midwives at the birthing centre, but kind of knew what their answer would be, and has offered to give me a tour of the obstetric unit as I told her I really wasn't keen especially after seeing their online virtual tour.

What the consultant said about having a bigger baby and maybe needing an instrumental birth (which I shall refuse for as long as possible, as this is most definitely not what I want) makes me more concerned about homebirth, and I just don't know what to do anymore. 

My lovely birthing experience that I dreamed of is going to end up a nightmare, I can just see it.


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## lozzy21

MissSazra said:


> So the midwife finally got back to me yesterday and said as she hadn't weighed me at the booking appointment, she hadn't realised my bmi was too high!
> 
> She had recommended the local birthing centre previously, but when I told her the bmi she backtracked and said I would probably have to go to the obstetric unit at the hospital instead as agreed by the consultant.
> 
> She told me to see the midwives at the birthing centre, but kind of knew what their answer would be, and has offered to give me a tour of the obstetric unit as I told her I really wasn't keen especially after seeing their online virtual tour.
> 
> What the consultant said about having a bigger baby and maybe needing an instrumental birth (which I shall refuse for as long as possible, as this is most definitely not what I want) makes me more concerned about homebirth, and I just don't know what to do anymore.
> 
> My lovely birthing experience that I dreamed of is going to end up a nightmare, I can just see it.

Not all OB want to intervene hun, I was booked in for a homebirth but she came early so had to go into hospital. My OB was happy to leave me in the care of the midwife while everything was fine and even when things started to go wrong he only stepped in when he needed to. I was pushing for two hours and he was happy to let me do so, it was only when she was showing signs of distress that he put a time limit on it.


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## Bournefree

MissSazra said:


> So the midwife finally got back to me yesterday and said as she hadn't weighed me at the booking appointment, she hadn't realised my bmi was too high!
> 
> She had recommended the local birthing centre previously, but when I told her the bmi she backtracked and said I would probably have to go to the obstetric unit at the hospital instead as agreed by the consultant.
> 
> She told me to see the midwives at the birthing centre, but kind of knew what their answer would be, and has offered to give me a tour of the obstetric unit as I told her I really wasn't keen especially after seeing their online virtual tour.
> 
> What the consultant said about having a bigger baby and maybe needing an instrumental birth (which I shall refuse for as long as possible, as this is most definitely not what I want) makes me more concerned about homebirth, and I just don't know what to do anymore.
> 
> My lovely birthing experience that I dreamed of is going to end up a nightmare, I can just see it.

Take a deep breath....

Take it on evidence: it's easier
Is your baby measuring big for dates by ultrasound (not fundal height - as in your case it will be woefully inaccurate.. i'm being polite about th size of your tum;-) Altough estimated fetal weighs are inaccrate the measurements they take in scans of the head circ, abdominal circ, are much more accurate! the worry about a big baby (and I mean off the chart big, as there is natural variation in all of us) is that baby will not be able to decend through the pelvis - Pelvic-cephlic disproportion... if there is evidence of this only only way out for baby is c-section. if there is no evidence of this, you have little worries about a vaginal birth.

Why would you need a vaginal instrumnetal delivery if baby was masuring big? Well some babies do get stuck, and your risk of this is exactally the same as mine or anyone elses of Shoulder dystocia - this risk isn't because of your BMI or your baby.

Your MW is meant to be your advocate.. just arranging a tour of the unit, isn't good evidenced practice, and isn't enabling your informed choice which she has a duty to inform and protect. She has a duty to esscalate this to the head of midwifery and one of the superisor of midwives. Get in contact with them.

It is YOUR decision.
XxX


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## chuck

I'd like to see the crystal ball these people have that let them know your baby is big, also that you'll need instruments? 

My mind boggles!!

IF multiple scans performed by different sonographers reliably show a baby which is off the charts big then go to the OB unit. If not you have a normal baby who can arrive normally with no mote risks than any other baby. 

Bigger mama does not = gigantic baby

Bigger baby does not = instruments


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## chuck

https://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=3030

Read this series of posts that are fully referenced.


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## MissSazra

We had a private scan on Monday and the baby was measuring absolutely perfectly for 19 weeks. The HC was 18+6 so nothing majorly big, and I can't see a reason for that to change in the next 20 weeks and become a giant baby that I'll never be able to push out.

We have our 20 week scan in 2 weeks so I guess I'll see what's going on then as well.


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## LadyGecko

MissSazra said:


> So the midwife finally got back to me yesterday and said as she hadn't weighed me at the booking appointment, she hadn't realised my bmi was too high!
> 
> She had recommended the local birthing centre previously, but when I told her the bmi she backtracked and said I would probably have to go to the obstetric unit at the hospital instead as agreed by the consultant.
> 
> She told me to see the midwives at the birthing centre, but kind of knew what their answer would be, and has offered to give me a tour of the obstetric unit as I told her I really wasn't keen especially after seeing their online virtual tour.
> 
> What the consultant said about having a bigger baby and maybe needing an instrumental birth (which I shall refuse for as long as possible, as this is most definitely not what I want) makes me more concerned about homebirth, and I just don't know what to do anymore.
> 
> My lovely birthing experience that I dreamed of is going to end up a nightmare, I can just see it.

MissZara - I was in the same boat as you and my mw gave me a flat out no due to my bmi which is 38 btw (i'm fat and pregnant..so what) 

Ask for an appointment with your labour ward manager/consultant midwife, the bottem line is the nhs is a paitent led organisation...you have the right to make choices for yourself and any consultant or mw can only advise you on the pros and cons, you cannot be forced to have an intrumental birth as it is ASSAULT and practicing professionals know this.

my local health board cut of for water birth is 35 and they have the decresstion to allow any woman physicaly able to use the pool up to the bmi of 39...the reason I was given for this is due to health and safty and manufaturing guidelines... after a meeting with the labour ward mw i was informed I was allowed to have a waterbirth and will be.

big deal you dont have the perfect bmi....your preganacy is not about that its about you and your baby... you have the right to make informed choices and dont let anyone tell you otherwise:hugs:

I hope this helps and ps even 3 out of 5 mws gave me the wrong information regarding my birth options

good luck ...hope to hear how you get on x


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## Fuchsia1412

Listen you musn't think like that, about it turning into a nightmare. This is totally your experience..it's very hard to actually tell health professionals that you are not taking their advice, as they often phrase it as a given, like you're doing something unlawful, I know that.. You can birth your baby, even if he/she is on the larger side, there's still no problem with that, and btw, scans are so amazingly innacurate for size....if you have facebook, find 'invisible midwives' and 'like' it or join it or whatever to get updates- very good stuff there, and if you ask any of the posters, they're helpful and very pro women's choices in labour, that's what they're there for. Please don't be disheartened. It disheartens me so much to hear what midwives are saying, UK and US, ruining experiences for women. Well knowledge is power, so arm yourself well and keep positive, and keep us posted.


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## irish_cob

My BMI is 41 or 42 depending on whether the MW calculates it with her computer or her wheel and I'm going for a home birth where I can have my birth pool. I'm not going into hospital unless I absolutely need to be, and I will certainly start off at home and only transfer in in an emergency, I won't go to hospital "just in case", as I know I definitely won't get a water birth there.


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## Cherrybinky

I have a bmi of 32 which they told me is high risk as the cut off is 30 but its no problem having a water birth. I will be a Leeds general and they havent even batted an eyelid. I dont see why its a problem, I hope you get results. 
X


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## Mervs Mum

Leeds promote water birth but actually getting in the pool on the day is MUCH more challenging!


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## Thegirl

JD'2 said:


> you had your first at home???????
> 
> i have been told because of high BMI and this is first i'm NOT allowed. BMI only 32.2 and recommended 30. you might get same as me if you ask for home birth. i'm well gutted:nope:

My BMI was the similar and my midwife asked me if I wanted a home birth. We waited until around 34 weeks to do all the paperwork. That way they knew I was still up for it and they could check I was perfectly healthy.

Also, with not allowed doesn't work with births, you get to choose. Now they can advise against anything, but if the only complication you have is a BMI of 32.2 then it's really not their call to attempt to stop you.


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## Nyn

tristansmum said:


> i think it might be to do with being able to get a person out of the pool if there became a problem. Please bear with me while i try to find a "PC" way of writing this LOL
> 
> So if a woman who is overweight/obese suddenly fainted or there was a major problem whilst in the pool the MW might not be able to get her out safely...ie they might not be able to lift her out. I am a nurse and its very difficult as we have a minimal lifting policy... so basically we are NOT allow to lift up a patient. now obviously if someone needs to be moved who can't do it themselves then we need to use special equipment and the correct number of people. If we were sujected to lifting people all day everyday our backs would be distroyed.
> 
> So i think it might be down to the fact that first MW led units only have a small number of staff and they may not have lifting equipment to get you out of the pool if you became unable to help yourself.
> 
> Now a high BMI might mean anything- you could be 1lb overweight or 100lbs overweight but unfortunately a hospital has to put guidelines into place to protect everyne and they will always have a cut off point. Does that make sense????
> 
> Might be worth looking into someother hospital though cause my labour ward had one birthing pool on it. hope you can get what you want xxxxxxxx

this was my thought too. hope you get the birth you want hun x


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