# Bold 2 in 1



## mummy_mi

Okay so I know a lot of you lovely ladies use this but can I get the low down on it please.

I use soapnuts at the minute and they work a treat, I have no problems using them but, because we dont have a tumble dryer, a lot of things are going a little crispy already. So I was wondering if using the 2 in 1, even maybe only once a week would help keep things softer?

Does anyone use it without a dryer and think it keeps things soft?

Also is it any variety of the Bold 2 in 1 thats okay to use with nappies, due to the clay based formula, or only one type/fragrance?

And do you use a teaspoon sized amount, more/less?

I probably will end up trying it but just wanted some honest answers first! xx


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## Iris

Me too! :-D


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## mummy_mi

Bump - come on Bold ladies!! xx


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## boltonlass

Hiya I use bold 2in1 powder on all my clothes and have just started using it on nappies. 

I was using fairy non-bio or ecover but nappies were coming out still stained and i was having stink issues with my flip outers. Used bold with my clothes so stuck the flip outers in with a normal wash to see if it helped. Made a massive difference.

So decided to use bold for everything. It does keep everything nice and soft without a dryer and as a bonus your house smells lovely while nappies are drying on radiators!

With the powder i use the minimum amount recommended for general washing and then use about a third of this for nappy washing. I rinse all my nappies before washing and use a couple of drops of lavender oil in the conditioner drawer to make them smell nice (when i remember).

Hope that helps :thumbup:


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## dippy dee

I to use bold, 1/3 a cup of it for everything lol i used to use a full cup but i figured if 1/3 of a cup can get the worst poo out then i figure it can get every day stains out as well, a box now lasts 3 times longer so i can't complain :)


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## Bluetomato

I use bold on my nappies. I was using ariel on them but anything microfibre absolutley stank, even after countless strip washing so we gave bold a go. It seems to work ok and ive not noticed any problems with rashes or anything on the boys. It smells lovely too!


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## Sunflowers

What age did you start using it? Our daughter had really dreadful eczema until a few months ago and she also reacted to persil non-bio (but I understand that's quite common as lots of babies are allergic to the perfume they put in to give it that just washed smell (because having just washed it wouldn't be enough??? :dohh: )) so we were a bit concerned about changing to this?

Also any particular "flavour" bold or is it just personal preference?


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## Bluetomato

I started using it a couple of weeks ago, and I have the lavender fragrance. Harrison got really sore when I washed his nappies in non bio, plus it was rubbish at getting any stains out!


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## mummy_mi

Ty for answers! Is it only the powder 2 in 1 thats okay for nappies or the gel one as well? xx


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## princessellie

can i just ask, how much is 1/3 cup?

x


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## sam#3

lol i was just wondering about the cup measure as well!!! i use my pink vanish scoop?!?!?


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## princessellie

my thing i use to measure is in mls lol

x


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## Mary Jo

I use 1 tablespoon of Bold 2-in-1 for nappies, works well but there is not the heavy fragrance that I get from using a normal amount (which I do on the rest of our laundry). We use the one in the red box, not sure what it is, passionflower and something, maybe? As for powder vs liquid - I read something over at Cloth Nappy Tree that explained why powder is better for the machine. I tumble dry my bamboo fitted nappies and boosters for 40 mins on medium then hang on a rack, everything else goes straight on the rack. I find a short time in the dryer fluffs them up nice (could prob do less time but my dryer doesn't have a setting for less than 40 mins and I forget to get them out sooner).


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## Missy

Just thought some of you might be interested to know (as this is the 'natural' parenting section) that Bold is tested on animals. So are most of the big brands which is why I wouldn't use them. There's some info here:
https://www.uncaged.co.uk/pg.htm
I use Astonish or certain supermarket own brands for mine and they work just fine and are cruelty free too :)


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## princessellie

:shock: omg so i wont be buying bold then, will be sticking to my ariel bio

x


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## princessellie

omg they make ariel too!! persil it is then!!

x


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## Missy

You'd be surprised how many everyday products are animal tested...it's disgusting really. Most of the big brands are unfortunately. Check out the naturewatch website for tested/non-tested products. It's cool that you care anyway xxx

https://www.naturewatch.org/shoppingguide/Index.asp


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## Sunflowers

princessellie - watch out for a rash with persil, they put a perfume in to give the clothes a just washed smell (because the fact you've "just washed" them isn't enough?!) and a lot of babies have come up in a rash to it, my daughter included!


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## mummy_mi

I'll be sticking to soapnuts then! You'd really think in this day and age they'd stop being so cruel.


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## Monkeh

Argh, I've just bought some bold then I saw this! :(


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## Rachel_C

I was holding my breath checking that list cos we use Persil... though I'm sure that's been tested on animals by whatever company makes it :cry:

I just got a sample of Bold through the post... still gonna use it (hey, free is free!) but not going to buy any more Bold after that.


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## Missy

I must admit that I use the freebies too, but i won't give the evil b******s my money. Pampers are made by P&G too so it's good we're all cloth bummers here! :)


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## boltonlass

Aww shame as i love bold. Just bought some half price ecoballs from our chemists so going to give them a go. If they turn out to be pants though will have to figure out what to get next. I have a cupboard full of half bottles of various washing powders/liquids, free samples and conditioners - really need a sort out.


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## princessellie

:cry: i cant boycott proctor and gamble, everything we use is on that list :cry:

x


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## boltonlass

princessellie said:


> :cry: i cant boycott proctor and gamble, everything we use is on that list :cry:
> 
> x

I was too chicken to read it all - would probably depress me! Will use up what i have of stuff then do some research on what to buy next time. Really hope i can find something else that works on nappies, have already tried 3 others and they were all crap - use bold for everything else so started using it on nappies and its brill :cry:. 

I do try to be ecofriendly but if they dont do the job what are you supposed to do :shrug:


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## princessellie

can we just pretend we never saw this thread :wacko: argh, im gna feel guilty every time i use something off that list now

x


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## thelilbump

noooooo y did i just look at that list, aussie shampoo's on it :hissy:


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## anothersquish

Unfortunately a hell of a lot of products are tested on animals. I dont agree with it, infact I do as much as I can manage to combat animal testing (within legal means, I am STRONGLY against extremist animal rights campaigners and thier ideas!) but I cannot boycott all these companies. Unfortunately only one company produces my sons uiniform...they test thier dyes on animals...I cant not get him a uniform else he would be suspended from school....I am investing in soapnuts and giving them a whirl in normal washes and nappy washes I hope they work! 
its the same as buying food products, tested on animals, child labour (Primark anyone....you know who makes their clothes ....) unfair wages.....it seems impossible to avoid it.


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## Rachel_C

I do try to avoid things that I know are tested on animals/not veggie/unfair trade etc, but it is very difficult to avoid everything. I sometimes get frustrated and think about giving up on it all but I kind of think it's like recycling or cloth nappies... ok so sometimes I'm bad and don't recycle everything, or I use a disposable here and there, but at least I try and even if it only makes a tiny difference, I think it's worth it :)


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## anothersquish

Certainly worth it, just cant beat yourself up about the odd thing here and there! For example normally I will ONLY buy British Organily produced meat from local farms (ie I KNOW those animals have been kept well and killed humanely) but sometimes I have ended up buying frozen breaded chicken from Tesco.
I must admit to loving my 'natural' cleaning products...I use quite a lot of lemon juice, vinegar and salt for cleaning!


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## thelilbump

yea we try to do the whole buy british on fruit and veg thing too but sometimes it's just that much more expensive I just can't justify it but if we will if we have the option.

On the soapnuts subject, yupp they're working well for us, really helped my daughter's eczema not so good on tough stains though!


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## sjbno1

oh i just bought some bold on friday :( i've not opened that link as I know things I use will be on there - although like AS i do like the good old vinegar/water mixture for cleaning :D so getting rid of general cleaning products wouldnt be a problem but I bet the things I clean my clothes in will be on there :(


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## sjbno1

oh no i've just looked at that list and infacare is on there :( I use this on izzie all the time - and I read what P&G have been doing :( why do I insist on doing that! now i'm gonna feel so guilty (sadly a rubbish trait I have)


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## Sunflowers

Actually on an interesting primark note, I was talking to a friend about them last year and apparently there had just been a tv documentary on (not sponsered by primark before you ask! :D ) looking at child labour within the clothes industry and they found primark to actually be fairly ethical - the one that surprised me was apparently Gap is really really bad in terms of child labour etc etc, I wouldn't have expected that at all!


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## sjbno1

I remember watching that sunflower - think it was channel 4


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## Missy

anothersquish said:


> Certainly worth it, just cant beat yourself up about the odd thing here and there! For example normally I will ONLY buy British Organily produced meat from local farms (ie I KNOW those animals have been kept well and killed humanely) but sometimes I have ended up buying frozen breaded chicken from Tesco.
> I must admit to loving my 'natural' cleaning products...I use quite a lot of lemon juice, vinegar and salt for cleaning!

Just out of interest, how do you know the animals have been killed 'humanely'? The vast majority of farms may keep their animals in a reasonable way but they go off to the same slaughterhouses as factory farmed animals and are killed in exactly the same way....not to mention that although they may have a reasonable quality of life they will still of course, only live a tiny portion of their natural lifespan in all cases.


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## FemmeEnceinte

I do a lot for the causes I believe in but animal testing isn't something I feel very strongly about. Other than household pets with whom I have formed some kind of bond, I don't really feel much for animals and the term humane bothers me... they're not humans, most animals maul their fellow animals to death given half a chance and for various "inhumane" reasons. I'm mostly interested in my family, save for a few child related causes, so my organic white meat only rule is for our health, not the animals and their peppermint foot baths (I forget which dairy company clams to do this...).

Anyway, I respect peoples passions and good for you if you boycott things you feel strongly about. I do. I will, however, be giving Bold a shot!


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## Rachel_C

Hehe I'm pretty much the opposite to you Femme! I much prefer animals to humans :rofl:

I guess it makes me a very negative person to look at it this way, but the way I see it is that humans know what is right and wrong and so often we choose to do the wrong thing. Animals, on the other hand, don't have a sense of right and wrong like we do, so anything they do isn't really good or bad, it's morally neutral. I think neutral is better than bad, as lots of humans are :wacko: That just shows how 'glass half empty' my view of the human race is though :dohh:


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## FemmeEnceinte

Maybe, but I think it depends a lot upon what you consider to be bad. That can differ wildly from person to person and, since none are "more right" or right by default, I'd say a lot of our problems as an intelligent species begin there.

:o It's too late for deep conversation :lol:


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## Rachel_C

FemmeEnceinte said:


> Maybe, but I think it depends a lot upon what you consider to be bad. That can differ wildly from person to person and, since none are "more right" or right by default, I'd say a lot of our problems as an intelligent species begin there.

True!



FemmeEnceinte said:


> :o It's too late for deep conversation :lol:

Doubly true - I just got confused sorting out thread in my sewing box... think it's time I went to bed :rofl:


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## FemmeEnceinte

I bet you're still here :lol:


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## Rachel_C

Ha for once I actually went to bed!!!


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## Vici

Missy said:


> Just out of interest, how do you know the animals have been killed 'humanely'? The vast majority of farms may keep their animals in a reasonable way but they go off to the same slaughterhouses as factory farmed animals and are killed in exactly the same way....not to mention that although they may have a reasonable quality of life they will still of course, only live a tiny portion of their natural lifespan in all cases.

I know mine is because its organically and locally reared and killed in my uncles slaughterhouse! I've worked there too so I know what goes on :)



FemmeEnceinte said:


> I do a lot for the causes I believe in but animal testing isn't something I feel very strongly about. Other than household pets with whom I have formed some kind of bond, I don't really feel much for animals and the term humane bothers me... they're not humans, most animals maul their fellow animals to death given half a chance and for various "inhumane" reasons. I'm mostly interested in my family, save for a few child related causes, so my organic white meat only rule is for our health, not the animals and their peppermint foot baths (I forget which dairy company clams to do this...).
> 
> Anyway, I respect peoples passions and good for you if you boycott things you feel strongly about. I do. I will, however, be giving Bold a shot!

My sentiments exactly :)


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## mummy_mi

I am against animal testing, and will stay away from companies that do that. 

I think in this day and age its unbelieveble that a company will use any kind of animal to test out a new fragrance/product. I understand why many people eat animals, the whole they were put on this planet to be eaten etc but that's not for me and I'm pretty sure they werent put on this planet to be locked up in a metal cage their entire life, subjected to terrible and horrific testing, just so we can have a new ingredient or smell to our toiletries/shampoo/detergent/etc. 

I admit if it was testing for some new life saving drug I would think about it differently. But for everyday things, I just think it's a pointless waste of life. Animals maybe not be 'humans' but they have a capacity to bring up their young, defend them, feel pain etc. 

Anyway I didnt mean to start a debate on this at all and each to their own, people make their own choices and if they can live with them then that's fine with me.


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## anothersquish

Missy said:


> anothersquish said:
> 
> 
> Certainly worth it, just cant beat yourself up about the odd thing here and there! For example normally I will ONLY buy British Organily produced meat from local farms (ie I KNOW those animals have been kept well and killed humanely) but sometimes I have ended up buying frozen breaded chicken from Tesco.
> I must admit to loving my 'natural' cleaning products...I use quite a lot of lemon juice, vinegar and salt for cleaning!
> 
> Just out of interest, how do you know the animals have been killed 'humanely'? The vast majority of farms may keep their animals in a reasonable way but they go off to the same slaughterhouses as factory farmed animals and are killed in exactly the same way....not to mention that although they may have a reasonable quality of life they will still of course, only live a tiny portion of their natural lifespan in all cases.Click to expand...

because I have actually accompanied some of the pigs from the farm we get our pork from...
the farms we get our chicken and beef from use the same place so we know they havent been traumatised, left in poor conditions etc at any point. They have also had a very good quality of life. 
They may only lead a small portion of thier lifespan but then better they live it in good conditions than bad conditions. I dont think these animals are aware of what thier "life span" should be....:rofl:


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## princessellie

ive really never understood why companies test on animals anyways, i mean just cos they do/dont react to something surely doesnt mean we will / wont??? just seems very odd, and im sure theres better ways to test it, like on people who actually offer to do it for example, im sure thered be plenty of people up for trying out a new product lol

x


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## mummy_mi

Yes but the companies have to pay the people for their time/travel/give them food etc, make sure they're all treated ethically, and if say someone came out in a rash they might have to pay them compensation etc etc. And you could fit 100's of lab rats in the space of a small room, there are no regulations to follow, they buy them cheap or breed them especially onsite and then just incinerate them after so there's no costs afterwards.


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## princessellie

but still, surely we are not the same as rats, i dont understand how they can think, oh that doesnt cause a rash on that rat so it must be ok for humans, surely our skin is totally different??? its just always baffled me :shrug:

x


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## mummy_mi

No idea, just seems like in some respects we're still in the dark ages!


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## Rachel_C

It's a funny argument they use - it's ok to experiment on animals because they're so different to us, but it's useful because they're so similar?! I think nowadays there's no excuse for it for cosmetic reasons etc as we pretty much know what different things will do to us.


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## anothersquish

or there is always some muppet open to sign a disclaimer and be a test human.
Or just test everything on all the people in prisons using up tax payers money to keep them when they have committed crime....might be a better deterant than anything else going around atm!


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## Missy

anothersquish said:


> Missy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anothersquish said:
> 
> 
> Certainly worth it, just cant beat yourself up about the odd thing here and there! For example normally I will ONLY buy British Organily produced meat from local farms (ie I KNOW those animals have been kept well and killed humanely) but sometimes I have ended up buying frozen breaded chicken from Tesco.
> I must admit to loving my 'natural' cleaning products...I use quite a lot of lemon juice, vinegar and salt for cleaning!
> 
> Just out of interest, how do you know the animals have been killed 'humanely'? The vast majority of farms may keep their animals in a reasonable way but they go off to the same slaughterhouses as factory farmed animals and are killed in exactly the same way....not to mention that although they may have a reasonable quality of life they will still of course, only live a tiny portion of their natural lifespan in all cases.Click to expand...
> 
> because I have actually accompanied some of the pigs from the farm we get our pork from...
> the farms we get our chicken and beef from use the same place so we know they havent been traumatised, left in poor conditions etc at any point. They have also had a very good quality of life.
> They may only lead a small portion of thier lifespan but then better they live it in good conditions than bad conditions. I dont think these animals are aware of what thier "life span" should be....:rofl:Click to expand...

How very sad that you think it's funny. Some people just never really get it!


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## anothersquish

Yes, yes Im the devil for feeding my family meat and not being a strict vegan. 
Never mind that I ensure I source my meat and other animal products from the very best places (organic, free range, places I have visited and SEEN the quality of life those animals have) 
Next you will be telling me I am the devil for putting my dogs and horses to sleep rather than let them suffer til they die "naturally" 

If you can be so dismissive and rude towards someone who is very concious of animals being treated well I wonder how obnoxious you can be towards people who are indifferent...it wont win any people to your cause thats for sure.


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## Rachel_C

Great idea about testing on prisoners Squish!!! And no, you're not the devil for eating meat... you're the devil for encouraging us by example to spend waaaaaaaaaaay too much on nappies. 

:devil: <--- This is you. 

:angelnot: :angelnot: :angelnot: :angelnot: :angelnot: <--- This is the rest of us.

Personally, I'm a veggie because I can't stand the idea of eating flesh and I hate people who will eat burgers and chicken nuggets but turn up their nose at 'real' meat with a bit of blood or gristle because it reminds them that it actually is meat. That seems very disrespectful to the animals the meat comes from. But I have deep respect for people who are fully aware of where meat comes from and still eat it, especially those who care about animal welfare as you obviously do. That is very respectful and I don't have a problem with that. It's just that I personally could not watch an animal being killed and then eat it. 

Hehe how did a thread about detergent turn into an animal rights debate?!


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## anothersquish

:rofl: I love how all the nappy buying is my fault!

Interestingly I only eat certain meats I dont eat beef or lamb at all and I eat only limited amounts of pork. My 5yr old already knows where meat comes from, he has seen the animals alive and kicking, I think its important that if he chooses to eat meat as he gets older he should have a complete understanding of where it comes from and how it gets from animal to plate. TBH if we had the option we would raise our own animals for meat, eggs, cheese, milk etc if we could! My 5yr old did spend most of last year on the pig farm next door to where I kept my horses, he helped look after them and then ate the meat, he now delights in telling people which part of the pig that cut of meat came from LOL


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## Rachel_C

See that's what I like... if somebody is going to eat meat, I think they should appreciate where it comes from. Leyla is veggie for now but I do tell her already where the meat daddy's eating from comes from. Hopefully when she's old enough to decide for herself, she can make an informed decision (though perhaps the story about prawns being poor children's peeled fingers won't help her decision :rofl:)


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## princessellie

leyla eats all meats apart from pork, i tell people its cos she's muslim but really i just dont think its good for her to eat it :shrug: she does eat chicken and beef though, lamb very rarely if i make it, i love it but its expensive, we just buy tesco / asda cheapest :( id love to be able to buy better meat but we're too poor :(

if i had more money id deffo buy everything organic and make sure my meat came from the right places etc and probably in the future i will when im richer but at the minute im just not able, ive really considered becoming a veggie because i watched this documentary about how they kill animals and how they are treated and i was veggie for a while before i got pregnant, in fact i grew up veggie because my mam was, but i just dont know how to eat properly as a vegetarian and how to make sure we get all of our vitamins and stuff we need, especially iron, its so difficult :(

x


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## anothersquish

My mum and older sister are veggie and as I eat only limited meat I cook a lot of veggie meals. Honestly you dont miss out on not eating meat and I COMPLETELY get where you are coming from on the expense front, meat is expensive! You may be suprised at how cheap it can be if you buy directly from the farms though, our pork costs around the same as asda/tesco cheap stuff but its from free range piggies fed organic diet (they happy piggies, used to like scaring the crap out my horses!) we get it cheaper because we buy in bulk directly from the farm who produce it. We buy enough for 6 months and then freeze it (we have two freezers!) we also buy organic free range chicken locally, 5 kg of chicken breast for £20...tesco value chicken breast is £6.56 a kg!!!!!

Anyhow if youd like some veggie meal ideas let me know, one of our favourites is courgette lasagne with four cheeses...yum yum!


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## FemmeEnceinte

I could never be veggie, not just because I like meat but because I'm quite lactose intolerant and it's a huge and easy source of protein and iron for me. I only eat white meat usually but OH has days where he _needs_ pork :lol: so the odd chop or two isn't unheard of. I used to eat more red meat but it's just so hideously bad for people that I can never bring myself to want it any more. We mainly get organic from the supermarket, as I'm aware of all the antibiotics and various other drugs non organically farmed meat contains. 

I'm probably not much of a humanist, most of my "causes" are those that directly affect my family and molly's future family but the population in general and animals have never been much of a concern of mine.

Anyway, I bought some bold! Smells lovely... will try it when smallo builds up enough dirty nappies and see if it works. Still waiting on my LLS UDNN, grrr! I pretty much bought the bold for that nappy... :lol:


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## Vici

Which one did you get? I have the purple one but need some more so might go for a new smell :D


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## Monkeh

I was a veggie for 9 years. Then I ate a bacon sandwich and never looked back :haha: I don't eat lamb though, never have. It's mostly just chicken I eat tbh, with the very very occasional steak. 

Aaanyway, I got the purple bold (lavender?) and it smells looovely and gets the nappies nice and clean :)


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## princessellie

ooh i love a bacon sandwich, i eat pork even though im muslim aswell so am a bit of a hypocrite for not letting leyla lol, i love a ham sandwich aswell, sorry prob not the right thread for this, please dont kill me :blush:

x


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## Rachel_C

Naughty Ellie! :devil: :haha: I've been veggie since I was about 10 and the only thing that would tempt me back to eating meat would be a pork pie... the kind with the thick crust and the thin layer of jelly on top, yummy, or a sausage roll from Greggs. :rofl: Guess since I'm officially a Muslim too there's not much chance of that! 

I've had the purple bold before, but it didn't twig that I could use it for nappies. It was a bottle I got free as a sample but I don't think I'd buy it again even if it wasn't tested on animals cos I don't really like the smell. I do love real lavender but I like my clothes to smell like what they usually call 'fresh linen' or something, yes that lovely fake fresh smell! Love it!


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## princessellie

oh god i love pork pies aswell, well even though were muslim were alevi, so the pork thing isnt SUCH an issue for us but its still frowned upon lol, were basically not allowed to eat rabbit which i couldnt eat anyways :shock:

x


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## FemmeEnceinte

Vici said:


> Which one did you get? I have the purple one but need some more so might go for a new smell :D

The blue one, spa fresh or something. Washing tonight so will let you know if it's nice! :D


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## Rachel_C

princessellie said:


> oh god i love pork pies aswell, well even though were muslim were alevi, so the pork thing isnt SUCH an issue for us but its still frowned upon lol, were basically not allowed to eat rabbit which i couldnt eat anyways :shock:
> 
> x

Ahh lucky! We're not really bothered about meat being halal cos in the UK it doesn't make much difference to how they're killed, but pork is still a big no-no... sad if I wanted to eat meat :cry:


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## Missy

anothersquish said:


> Yes, yes Im the devil for feeding my family meat and not being a strict vegan.
> Never mind that I ensure I source my meat and other animal products from the very best places (organic, free range, places I have visited and SEEN the quality of life those animals have)
> Next you will be telling me I am the devil for putting my dogs and horses to sleep rather than let them suffer til they die "naturally"
> 
> If you can be so dismissive and rude towards someone who is very concious of animals being treated well I wonder how obnoxious you can be towards people who are indifferent...it wont win any people to your cause thats for sure.

OMG...all I said was that it's sad that you think it's funny. How the hell is that rude or obnoxious? I was only trying to point out the animal testing issue initially and seemingly a few people do care so that's all I set out to do. Personally I could not use a product that I knew had been dripped into an animal's eyes or rubbed into a raw wound on its body however nice it might smell or however effectively it removed stains. Similarly I do not eat meat because I don't believe that my tastebuds are more important than the life of another being, regardless of how that being has been treated. If others choose to then that's up to them but at least they can make an informed decision if they know the facts.


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## princessellie

hun, squish didnt say that animal testing was funny, i think theres just been a misunderstanding :shrug:

x


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## FemmeEnceinte

Missy said:


> anothersquish said:
> 
> 
> Yes, yes Im the devil for feeding my family meat and not being a strict vegan.
> Never mind that I ensure I source my meat and other animal products from the very best places (organic, free range, places I have visited and SEEN the quality of life those animals have)
> Next you will be telling me I am the devil for putting my dogs and horses to sleep rather than let them suffer til they die "naturally"
> 
> If you can be so dismissive and rude towards someone who is very concious of animals being treated well I wonder how obnoxious you can be towards people who are indifferent...it wont win any people to your cause thats for sure.
> 
> OMG...all I said was that it's sad that you think it's funny. How the hell is that rude or obnoxious? I was only trying to point out the animal testing issue initially and seemingly a few people do care so that's all I set out to do. Personally I could not use a product that I knew had been dripped into an animal's eyes or rubbed into a raw wound on its body however nice it might smell or however effectively it removed stains. Similarly I do not eat meat because I don't believe that my tastebuds are more important than the life of another being, regardless of how that being has been treated. If others choose to then that's up to them but at least they can make an informed decision if they know the facts.Click to expand...

Tbh, I found something about your tone to be somewhat expectant and also the suggestion, well declaration, that "some people just don't get it" is pretty obnoxious. She does get it, we all do... and we make our choices accordingly.


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## Missy

princessellie said:


> hun, squish didnt say that animal testing was funny, i think theres just been a misunderstanding :shrug:
> 
> x

No I realise that. She thinks it's funny that an animal killed at a few weeks/months old doesn't know what it's lifespan should be. That's still offensive.

So I seem to be virtually the only one who gets it and still makes the ethical choice then? Well, rather rude and obnoxious than arrogant enough to think I am so superior over other living things that I can use them for my own gain. It's a shame I'm so outnumbered. If there were more like me and less like you there would be a lot less pain and suffering. I'm surprised there are so few caring souls on a so-called 'natural' parenting section. I guess that the concept of compassion doesn't extend beyond your own kids. It's odder still that your concept of parenting doesn't reach to teaching your children respect for ALL life...and don't even bother to tell me that you can respect animals and still eat them,test on them etc. because that's just a ridiculous cop out. I shan't bother continuing to post on this thread as I'm clearly wasting my time.


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## anothersquish

You are saying an animal does know what its lifespan should be? You really REALLY think that a sheep or cow or dog or cat or horse KNOWS it should live for X number of years?

Having already stated that I dont agree with and actually am actively against animal testing you choose MY post about choosing organically farmed, well cared for animals to demonstrate your point??? um...duh? 
If you are going to use an example use the disgusting conditions battery hens are kept in (my sister has eight ex battery hens, poor mites) or the conditions some pigs kept simply to breed piglets are kept in with barely enough room to stand, in such tiny pens they often lie on and kill thier young. The pigs we eat come from a countryside farm where they have free access to fresh air 24/7, stys with full straw beds, plenty of water, plenty of good quality food and you still thinks its up to you to march in and tell someone thats wrong? Seriously?

I love animals, I sure as hell respect them which is why I like to ensure that the animals I DO eat are kept in the best way possible and killed in a way which is not at all traumatic to the animal. 

Its no wonder so many people DONT care about animals enough because if they state they are against animal testing but eat meat people like you make them out to be some evil being with no love or respect for animals and slagging people off about eating meat doesnt exactly gain you any support.

Actually Im seething that you would suggest I see myself as "superior" and you suggest that I (we...everyone here who eats meat regardless of where it comes from) cause pain and suffering to animals.

Natural parenting isnt about being strict vegans, you CAN still teach respect for others (including animals) to children without having to avoid eating or using all animal products. My 5yr old has more respect for animals than most his age do. 

Its arrogance like yours and your assumption of superiority over everyone else thats the problem and there is a reason you are in the minority.


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## lfernie

Squish, slightly off topic but I would love some veggie recipes as like you I don't eat a lot of meat but I end up stumped when trying to make veggie
recipes. When I buy meat ( from the supermarket as I live 2 miles from Glasgow city centre so no farms) I do buy organic & free range and I can't bring myslef to buy the supermarkets cheaper stuff (although I understand and respect those who do) since I watched kill it cook it eat it x


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## mummy_mi

Missy said:


> No I realise that. She thinks it's funny that an animal killed at a few weeks/months old doesn't know what it's lifespan should be. That's still offensive.
> 
> So I seem to be virtually the only one who gets it and still makes the ethical choice then? Well, rather rude and obnoxious than arrogant enough to think I am so superior over other living things that I can use them for my own gain. It's a shame I'm so outnumbered. If there were more like me and less like you there would be a lot less pain and suffering. I'm surprised there are so few caring souls on a so-called 'natural' parenting section. I guess that the concept of compassion doesn't extend beyond your own kids. It's odder still that your concept of parenting doesn't reach to teaching your children respect for ALL life...and don't even bother to tell me that you can respect animals and still eat them,test on them etc. because that's just a ridiculous cop out. I shan't bother continuing to post on this thread as I'm clearly wasting my time.

I think it's probably for the best not to continue posting on this thread, as this thread and indeed the whole natural parenting section isnt for pushing your opinions/values onto others, by either preaching at them or making them feel bad. You are not the only compassionate person here but it's no ones right to force or guilt others into changing their ways. People have the right to choose how they live their lives whether you agree or not, it's their life and as long as your living yours in whatever way that makes you happy then I think that should be enough, you cannot possibly change people, if indeed they even need to be changed, unless they want and choose to.

Maybe we should just let this thread go now as it's completely off from what was originally started, and although there have been some good points raised, this isnt the place to be discussing them.

:flower: xx


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## Maffie

mummy_mi said:


> Yes but the companies have to pay the people for their time/travel/give them food etc, make sure they're all treated ethically, and if say someone came out in a rash they might have to pay them compensation etc etc. And you could fit 100's of lab rats in the space of a small room, there are no regulations to follow, they buy them cheap or breed them especially onsite and then just incinerate them after so there's no costs afterwards.

I have to say there are regulations that they have to follow, it may not seem it but this country is alot stricter than many others. To boycott everything that is affected by testing you pretty much need to buy everything natural and nothing from abroad, so thats all your high street stores out the window. Alo cosmetic testing is banned in this country.



Missy said:


> princessellie said:
> 
> 
> hun, squish didnt say that animal testing was funny, i think theres just been a misunderstanding :shrug:
> 
> x
> 
> No I realise that. She thinks it's funny that an animal killed at a few weeks/months old doesn't know what it's lifespan should be. That's still offensive.
> 
> So I seem to be virtually the only one who gets it and still makes the ethical choice then? Well, rather rude and obnoxious than arrogant enough to think I am so superior over other living things that I can use them for my own gain. It's a shame I'm so outnumbered. If there were more like me and less like you there would be a lot less pain and suffering. I'm surprised there are so few caring souls on a so-called 'natural' parenting section. I guess that the concept of compassion doesn't extend beyond your own kids. It's odder still that your concept of parenting doesn't reach to teaching your children respect for ALL life...and don't even bother to tell me that you can respect animals and still eat them,test on them etc. because that's just a ridiculous cop out. I shan't bother continuing to post on this thread as I'm clearly wasting my time.Click to expand...


I dont think there is a need for rudeness, everyone has different views and opinions. Dont forget many medical procedures and drugs that save lives are tested on animals should we not do that? I have loved ones alive today thanks to some of those medications.

Its a very sweeping statement to say people dont have compassion beyond their children. All testing facilities aren't the same worldwide. Ive been to the pedigree research facility and i'll tell you something those animals are treated much better than some children ive seen being dragged up.


Sorry if that all came out as a ramble but to be totally against animal testing you'd need to be boycotting everything from your electrical products, to hospitals, you couldnt drive (they test chemicals in your petrol). Your clothes, toys, the list is endless.


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## princessellie

Missy said:


> princessellie said:
> 
> 
> hun, squish didnt say that animal testing was funny, i think theres just been a misunderstanding :shrug:
> 
> x
> 
> No I realise that. She thinks it's funny that an animal killed at a few weeks/months old doesn't know what it's lifespan should be. That's still offensive.
> 
> So I seem to be virtually the only one who gets it and still makes the ethical choice then? Well, rather rude and obnoxious than arrogant enough to think I am so superior over other living things that I can use them for my own gain. It's a shame I'm so outnumbered. If there were more like me and less like you there would be a lot less pain and suffering. I'm surprised there are so few caring souls on a so-called 'natural' parenting section. I guess that the concept of compassion doesn't extend beyond your own kids. It's odder still that your concept of parenting doesn't reach to teaching your children respect for ALL life...and don't even bother to tell me that you can respect animals and still eat them,test on them etc. because that's just a ridiculous cop out. I shan't bother continuing to post on this thread as I'm clearly wasting my time.Click to expand...

:shock:

i dont think thats very nice, ive already said i would like to become veggie but i personally put my family's health first, im sorry if that makes me a bad person! :nope:

x


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## FemmeEnceinte

Missy said:


> princessellie said:
> 
> 
> hun, squish didnt say that animal testing was funny, i think theres just been a misunderstanding :shrug:
> 
> x
> 
> No I realise that. She thinks it's funny that an animal killed at a few weeks/months old doesn't know what it's lifespan should be. That's still offensive.
> 
> So I seem to be virtually the only one who gets it and still makes the ethical choice then? Well, rather rude and obnoxious than arrogant enough to think I am so superior over other living things that I can use them for my own gain. It's a shame I'm so outnumbered. If there were more like me and less like you there would be a lot less pain and suffering. I'm surprised there are so few caring souls on a so-called 'natural' parenting section. I guess that the concept of compassion doesn't extend beyond your own kids. It's odder still that your concept of parenting doesn't reach to teaching your children respect for ALL life...and don't even bother to tell me that you can respect animals and still eat them,test on them etc. because that's just a ridiculous cop out. I shan't bother continuing to post on this thread as I'm clearly wasting my time.Click to expand...

Wow, it's such an arrogant thing to believe you're 100% right on a morally subjective issue. You realise that just because you think you're right, doesn't mean you are? Morality, as you should know, is relative.

I'm glad you have a passion and a belief but there's nothing immoral about those of us who just don't believe in the cause. 

Natural parenting is not being dominant and aggressive in any way in your children's lives, letting them grow and make their minds up by themselves whilst being a source of unconditional support and love. I sincerely hope that you don't expect your children to believe the same things as you as THAT is not natural parenting, that is forcing your views onto somebody else with the narrow minded belief that you are right.


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## Missy

Hey, I wonder where you lot would've stood in the days of slavery? I would've been out there with my placard campaigning for abolition and trying to effect change for he poor sods while you guys all chatted about 'choice' and 'opinion'...and Anothersquish would be banging on about how her slave was ok because she gave him good quality of life no doubt!! lol


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## Vickie

thread closed pending review


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