# Vexed & Perplexed - 11 days late, BFN HPT & Beta



## wahinegir1

Quick summary: DH & I TTC for 2 yrs, seeing fertility spec since Nov '11. American expats living in France. 3 pregnancies: #1 Dec '10 'natural' but m/c blighted ovum @ 6 wks, #2 Jul '11 'natural' but m/c chemical, #3 Jul '12 IUI but m/c chemical. Very slightly below avg levels for both of us, so generally unexplained infertility (except age?)

I've been on Puregon injection since Jan '12. We started at 50 IU doses with no real luck, working our way up to 125 IU's. In June '12 we had our 2nd IUI at this level - one great follicle and one maturing. Got pregnant and tested positive on 3 HPT's beginning at 10dpiui, BETA on day 11 showed a 9, the 15dpiui AF arrived.

France has very strange vacation and medical culture to us. Dr is part of the best group around but I find her apathetic and hard to reach. During the month of August, practically everyone goes on vacation here - so our lab and for all intents and purposes, our dr, are out of touch.

That being said, DH & I decided since we had some 'leftover' Puregon that would go bad before our 3rd IUI attempt in Sept, we would self-dose at 125 IU's for the usual 8 days & try 'naturally'. CD14 I wiped and had egg-whitish CM. DH & I had been having sex every other day since CD10 until CD18. We went on a long vacation on CD19. I am an almost-to-the-hour 28-day cycle (even before the treatments).

Around CD22 I had some very light spotting for about 48 hours and felt sure AF was coming along. So I wore pads just in case. the spotting was pinkish and very, very light. CD28 came and went with no sign of AF. Now, 11 days late, 3 negative HPT's (done @ 2,4, & 7 days late) all negative. Beta taken today and negative (1 IU).

No sign of AF, some white discharge (very light), EXHAUSTED (been chalking that up to coming off a 2 week vacation), weepy, a little tight-feeling in lower abdo/uterus. No bb tenderness & no headaches which have accompanied my other 'pregnancies'.

Dr, of course, is not in until Monday (4 days away). Even then it will be only when her secretary talks to her and they get back to let me know when the Dr will fit me in to her schedule (usually that is about 2 weeks out, I can't imagine how long it will be since she is coming off vacation) (also as I am not currently expecting, I will not be a priority). I am going a little more than crazy here trying to figure out what could be going on. I've seen lots of other peoples' posts online - but none of the have any follow-ups. I've never been diagnosed as PCOS or with endo. I had a polyp removed in March '12 & it didn't even change the regularity of my cycle.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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## 2have4kids

ooosh, it sounds VERY promising, but frustrating that you're getting negatives. fx for you, I hope it winds up into a healthy 9 months!


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## Hortensia

It CAN happen, in some cases, that HcG does not show up in the urine sufficiently to get a + even when you're several weeks along. Sometimes not even in the Beta. 

Are you sure you did ovulate? Are you doing temping and charting? 

Based on your clockwork regularity it does sound very promising. Only thing I would say is try some kind of pleasurable distraction to take your mind off it for a week or so, then test again if AF has not showed up. Although it's hilarious, coming from me, since my AF is a bit late and I'm hunting online for 'anyone had a negative test and turned out to be pregnant' :dohh:

It must be maddening for you to be in this kind of limbo, but fx'd that it has a positive outcome for you! Please keep us posted (I can't stand those non-followed up posts, either! :winkwink:)


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## wahinegir1

Thanks Ladies for the responses.

I am now 16 days late. DH & I had "les rapports" (French for "sex") Fri night (4 nights ago). The next day I had some pinkish-discharge (not much at all) so I thought I was going to start but I haven't and the discharge only lasted the morning after (and was very scant).

I've been trying to get an appt with my dr but I cannot get past the secretaries. At this point I am very, very angry with them. If I knew of another place we could go without having to start all over again, I would.

No more symptoms except some raging headaches, but it's been 100+ d\egrees here and we've no A/C in our old farmhouse so I am attributing those to the heat.

I've tried charting before but for almost 6 months, I never had a difference during ovulation or the first time I was pregnant. DH & I had even set up a giant spreadsheet to track but there wasn't anything significant. 

I bought two more CB Digitals today (because I my neurosis is hungry). I sincerely promise to post a follow-up.


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## wahinegir1

4th hpt negative


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## Hortensia

Hi Wahinegirl,

Any more developments or are you still on hot coals? Just wondering if you've managed to see a health professional yet? 

Btw, how old are you and your partner? (If you don't mind me asking :winkwink:)

Fx'd it's good news...


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## wahinegir1

Oh, don't even get me started! Yesterday I left my 5th message with the dr's secretary to make an appt. Still no word. Tomorrow morning I am just going in and will sit there until someone sees me! Nevermind that this is the fertility specialist we;ve been working with since Nov '11.

Day 17 no period, no indications of it starting. Took a CB digital yesterday afternoon and it was negative. I trust that type for me because it has picked up my previous pregnancies days before or day of expected cycle (even on the last one where my Beta was a 9).

DH is 37 and I am 38 (will be 39 in March). First time TTC for both of us; no previous children or pregnancies (other than the 3 we've had together), never any illnesses or problems otherwise with either of us. I have low AMH, his counts are on the low-end of average.

We've had 2 previous IUI's, one in April that didn't work, one in June that 'worked' but I m/c (started AF the day she would usually have been expected). We have to do one more IUI before insurance will cover an IVF.

We're encountering more issues than normally (I think) because we are living in a fairly rural part of France. While we are both pretty fluent in understanding, our dr's don't speak English...or at least they don't have the patience (terrible pun right there). Plus the culture is different - the patient doesn't know anything, the dr knows everything.


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## Hortensia

wahinegir1 said:


> Oh, don't even get me started! Yesterday I left my 5th message with the dr's secretary to make an appt. Still no word. Tomorrow morning I am just going in and will sit there until someone sees me! Nevermind that this is the fertility specialist we;ve been working with since Nov '11.
> 
> Day 17 no period, no indications of it starting. Took a CB digital yesterday afternoon and it was negative. I trust that type for me because it has picked up my previous pregnancies days before or day of expected cycle (even on the last one where my Beta was a 9).
> 
> DH is 37 and I am 38 (will be 39 in March). First time TTC for both of us; no previous children or pregnancies (other than the 3 we've had together), never any illnesses or problems otherwise with either of us. I have low AMH, his counts are on the low-end of average.
> 
> We've had 2 previous IUI's, one in April that didn't work, one in June that 'worked' but I m/c (started AF the day she would usually have been expected). We have to do one more IUI before insurance will cover an IVF.
> 
> We're encountering more issues than normally (I think) because we are living in a fairly rural part of France. While we are both pretty fluent in understanding, our dr's don't speak English...or at least they don't have the patience (terrible pun right there). Plus the culture is different - the patient doesn't know anything, the dr knows everything.

It's a bit much that you're not even getting a call back! We always hear such wonderful things about the French health service! If you're certain you ovulated it really is rather strange and I'm not surprised you're climbing the walls and insisting on seeing someone - I would. 

I've spent some time in France and know that the culture is rather paternalistic still, and I'd imagine that's more pronounced in rural areas. And it's tough that there is a language problem, especially when this ttc business involves so much specialised technical jargon! 

We've been ttc only for a short time. We are both 39 and neither of us has conceived before so it's really a totally unknown zone. As far as I'm aware we're just over the cutoff point for NHS fertility services too, so it's probably conception the natural way or bust. How long had you been ttc before you decided to seek medical advice?


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## wahinegir1

I could just scream. Called the dr again today and she absolutely WILL NOT see me until 8/31 (over a week away and close to 4 wks overdue for AF). I wish I knew that we could find another dr without having to start this process over again.

I desperately want an ultrasound to 1) rule out the very slim chance of being pregnant and 2) to see if there is something wrong (ie. cysts that will require removal before starting the 3rd round of IUI). There are other dr's in this group - one who speaks a little English who has given me 2 ultrasounds before (monitoring the follicles from the FSH injections) as well as performed the last IUI procedure, the other dr is the husband of my current dr who performed the hysteroscopy and D&C removal of my polyp back in March. But they do not "share" otherwise, for the life of me I cannot understand!!

This group is supposed to be the best in our region, but at this point I am willing to drive the 2 hours to Lyon or 3 to Paris to find another specialist.

Anyway, we've been trying since July 2010 (2 months after we were married). Had success in Dec '10 but I m/c at 6 wks with a blighted ovum. Then a minor success in July '11 when I just wasn't feeling good (hadn't even missed my period yet). Took an hpt at 10 or 11 PM then started my period the next morning (on time). Since we had been working on our house and preparing for our move to France, we decided to wait (since it would be WAAAAY less expensive here and we really had the time to devote to it). In Nov '11 we had our first appt in France - they did bloodwork and post-coital exams and sperm analysis. For those 2 months I had ultrasounds to monitor my follicle development and they 'prescribed' sex (because they could tell when the follicle was big enough for me to ovulate). In Jan '12 we started on Puregon (a FSH stimulating injection) at 25 IU's and each month we increased the dosage by 25 IU's. (While adding an ovulation trigger shot and some shots to keep me from ovulating too early and progesterone suppositories).

Overall we've had great experience with the healthcare system here. I think this dr and her group are just terrible, but they can afford to be if they are the best within a 2-3 hour radius, right? I am amazed at the cost here versus the cost in the US. IVF in France may run about 2,000Euros (from meds to consultations, to ultrasounds, to procedure, to blood tests) and in the US is is about $11,000 to $16,000.

I can't imagine at 39 you are above the cut-off - that's kind of crazy given the fact that more and more women are waiting until later to TTC. How long have you been trying?

(PS. thanks for taking the time to 'talk', I am going nuts here and trying to keep the last bit of sanity over this entire situation. I very much appreciate it!)


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## Hortensia

Would an ultrasound at this point show anything? August also is the very worst month for trying to get anything done in continental Europe - it's a skeleton service because most professionals are away on holidays! Do you feel you absolutely cannot wait until your doctor gets back? 

You can't even relax with a glass of wine! :growlmad: 

On the NHS 39 is the cutoff point for IVF, although this probably does not hold true for ancillary fertility support. However, the regulator recently (a couple of months ago) recommended that age limit be extended to 42. 

TBH, I have mixed feelings on this - neither my OH nor myself are keen on medical intervention if it doesn't happen naturally. But that's a BIG life decision, or non-decision. I look around at people I know conceiving and having healthy children naturally into their forties and tell myself, well, it can and does happen...
It's weird, but I think I'd feel sorrier for my parents. They are completely fine with whatever choices I make, but I know they would be thrilled to have a grandchild.


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## wahinegir1

I completely understand. I cried and cried the morning of our first IUI because I guess I was mourning the loss of our ability to try 'naturally'. It takes a lot of the romantic notions of conception away - heck, most of this TTC does if you really have to work at it. The medications have caused me to break out in cystic-type acne as well as gain (a lot) of weight; not to mention the crazy hormonal shifts and my fear of needles. But our insurance covers 6 IUI attempts and 3 IVF - each month we reassess how we feel about the process and we've agreed that when one (or both) of us says "Enough", we will stop. My idea is really that if I am not pregnant after 2 IVF's, it just isn't worth it anymore. I hope that doesn't sound horrible - but we're only here in France for 5 years and this whole infertility stuff just consumes our life. From CD7 to the IUI procedure I am monitored every day via trans-vaginal ultrasound and bloodwork. From CD2 to the IUI procedure I have injections every night (which also have to be refrigerated so if we want to go on vacation anywhere we carry a cooler and ask for a freezer).

I know having a baby means a lot more Life 'interruptions' and hauling lots of things around on vacation - but this whole infertility treatment process with no positive results (pun intended) is so much more to deal with. I try to explain to friends/family - it's like taking your rent/mortgage/food money every month and gambling it all on one roll of the dice at a casino. Except there is so much more involved - the physical, the emotional, your partnership...

My family already has 2 grandsons - but I am the oldest and only daughter. And there are no grandchildren on DH's side - we are the last hope. (His sister struggled with infertility as well many years ago and stopped after 3 IUI's).

If - IF all the tests are wrong and by some miraculous miracle of miracles I am pregnant, I would be around 7 wks by now. An ultrasound would at least show a gestational sac, but at this point there should be the first flutterings of a heartbeat. If I am not pregnant, an ultrasound would show a cyst or polyp.

Today at 18 days late I feel a good bit of pressure/light pain in my lower abdomen. Feels tender to push on it. The best thing (obviously) is that I am somehow secretly pregnant. The fear I have is the reality that there might be a cyst or ectopic and that damage is being done for weeks without being looked at/diagnosed.

Have you had any bloodwork or analysis done yet? Perhaps that might at least give you a starting point for conception?


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## Meado

Hi gals,

I was just passing through and read your thread with interest - I'm not sure I can add a whole lot other than some support and conversation but thought I'd say hi. :flower:

Wahinegirl, I am so sorry you are hitting such a brickwall with your specialist it must be so frustrating, I really hope those tests are wrong and you get your miracle.

Hortsenia, my DH and I have said that we're not sure what steps we'd take if we can't do this naturally. We love our life and although a family would be amazing it would be a big step for us to go for medical intervention. I am 37 (38 next month) and DH is 36 soon to be 37. We're ttc #1 and are 5 months into the process and living in the UK.

I went to the Dr this month as I had terrible period pain (the worst I've ever had) and went to talk about it. I mentioned we're ttc and by a quick check of my notes she reminded me that I was diagnosed with pcos many years ago so she did some blood tests (that all came back normal) and I'm booked for a CD21 blood test next week and a scan in about a month. I'm not sure how I feel about having the tests particularly as I did not go to talk about ttc but I guess it can't hurt to see what the results are.

Wishing you (and anyone else who reads this thread) lots of luck and positive vibes.


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## wahinegir1

Meado, thanks for weighing in!

DH & I kind of reluctantly went into the whole treatment thing - but as we are Americans living in France, we knew we'd be able to afford it here versus in the US. I don't love it, I guess now it is something of a challenge to me. DH & I are both problem-solvers by nature and this process has become totally frustrating. (Not to mention trying to acclimate to the medical culture here versus home)

For me, I say "Yay" in your getting some tests done and having the conversation with the doctor. At least you can begin to make some informed decisions about where you go from here. The month we started TTC (July 2010) I went to my dr for a yearly exam as well as discuss our TTC. He put me on prenatal vitamins immediately and I have been on them ever since. At least if it does eventually happen for us, I know at least I have the proper levels to aid in the pregnancy.

I think it is hard to know what you want to do until it comes down to it. As I said before, DH & I reassess every cycle. At this point for me, seeing a + on a test holds no Joy, only Fear of the inevitable early miscarriage. (Really I am a happy person :) ) And it is very hard for me to realize that if we do actually have a baby, the child will not come as an act of love-making, rather from DH masturbating into a cup and me in stirrups with a catheter inserted in my uterus. 

He has to have sperm analysis, you both have to do bloodwork, you will have to go in for a Hoener exam (a post-coital exam where the dr 'prescribes' sex then 8-10 hours later you go into the lab for them to swab inside you to determine if his swimmers are moving or not).

I am not trying to talk you out of anything - not at all. I am being as stark-honest as I can be. I am a big proponent of knowing the 'facts' before moving forward. Talk to your dr, talk to your DH, sit in the information a while, do some research of your own, talk to others...then move in the direction that best suits you both.

I think at least getting the trans-vaginal ultrasound is worth it - because they can begin to determine if you have a good ovarian reserve or not (which at our age begins to diminish almost exponentially).


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## Hortensia

wahinegir1 said:


> I completely understand. I cried and cried the morning of our first IUI because I guess I was mourning the loss of our ability to try 'naturally'. It takes a lot of the romantic notions of conception away - heck, most of this TTC does if you really have to work at it. The medications have caused me to break out in cystic-type acne as well as gain (a lot) of weight; not to mention the crazy hormonal shifts and my fear of needles. But our insurance covers 6 IUI attempts and 3 IVF - each month we reassess how we feel about the process and we've agreed that when one (or both) of us says "Enough", we will stop. My idea is really that if I am not pregnant after 2 IVF's, it just isn't worth it anymore. I hope that doesn't sound horrible - but we're only here in France for 5 years and this whole infertility stuff just consumes our life. From CD7 to the IUI procedure I am monitored every day via trans-vaginal ultrasound and bloodwork. From CD2 to the IUI procedure I have injections every night (which also have to be refrigerated so if we want to go on vacation anywhere we carry a cooler and ask for a freezer).
> 
> I know having a baby means a lot more Life 'interruptions' and hauling lots of things around on vacation - but this whole infertility treatment process with no positive results (pun intended) is so much more to deal with. I try to explain to friends/family - it's like taking your rent/mortgage/food money every month and gambling it all on one roll of the dice at a casino. Except there is so much more involved - the physical, the emotional, your partnership...
> 
> My family already has 2 grandsons - but I am the oldest and only daughter. And there are no grandchildren on DH's side - we are the last hope. (His sister struggled with infertility as well many years ago and stopped after 3 IUI's).
> 
> If - IF all the tests are wrong and by some miraculous miracle of miracles I am pregnant, I would be around 7 wks by now. An ultrasound would at least show a gestational sac, but at this point there should be the first flutterings of a heartbeat. If I am not pregnant, an ultrasound would show a cyst or polyp.
> 
> Today at 18 days late I feel a good bit of pressure/light pain in my lower abdomen. Feels tender to push on it. The best thing (obviously) is that I am somehow secretly pregnant. The fear I have is the reality that there might be a cyst or ectopic and that damage is being done for weeks without being looked at/diagnosed.
> 
> Have you had any bloodwork or analysis done yet? Perhaps that might at least give you a starting point for conception?

I think you have a remarkably disabused and balanced view of the whole process, actually. When it gets to that stage it is pretty much entirely devoid of romance and all about the mechanics. I guess the issue is whether that will eventually be worth it when or if you get a BFP, although I note you mention the anxiety following on from that; really you are just past the first hurdle at that stage. I have enormous admiration for couples who put themselves through all of those interventions; as you say it is essentially a massive gamble with no guarantee of a positive outcome. 

When I think of my mother's generation I can't help feeling (rose-tinted specs, I know) that life was somehow simpler then - none of these options was available and non-fertile couples just suffered, or attempted to adopt. My OH is an adoptee for instance, for his parents 'it just never happened'. The ironic thing is that he has an ambivalent attitude at best towards adoption; he never felt particularly close to his parents and somehow not knowing anything about his biological origins has had an effect on him that's hard to quantify. He's an incredibly well-balanced personality but I can see the effect it has had. I would be perfectly fine with adopting, delighted probably, but for him having his own biological offspring is important and I can perfectly understand that. 

I have not had bloodwork done or anything beyond having had a test last year to check I had immunity from rubella. If nothing has happened after a few months I will probably ask my dr to run some more tests. In the meantime I'm just trying to modify my lifestyle a little (I'm rather too fond of good coffee and wine) and we'll see what transpires. 

It's great to be able to come on here and chat, because I have nobody IRL that I can discuss this with and the women on here are all in the same boat, or some version of the same boat! :)

So have there been any more developments in your situation? Given what you say about tenderness, and the fact that you've been with a FS for so long, it is ridiculous that you cannot have a test simply to put your mind at rest. I am really hoping it turns out to be good news for you and that the negative tests are just an aberration!


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## Hortensia

Meado said:


> Hi gals,
> 
> I was just passing through and read your thread with interest - I'm not sure I can add a whole lot other than some support and conversation but thought I'd say hi. :flower:
> 
> Wahinegirl, I am so sorry you are hitting such a brickwall with your specialist it must be so frustrating, I really hope those tests are wrong and you get your miracle.
> 
> Hortsenia, my DH and I have said that we're not sure what steps we'd take if we can't do this naturally. We love our life and although a family would be amazing it would be a big step for us to go for medical intervention. I am 37 (38 next month) and DH is 36 soon to be 37. We're ttc #1 and are 5 months into the process and living in the UK.
> 
> I went to the Dr this month as I had terrible period pain (the worst I've ever had) and went to talk about it. I mentioned we're ttc and by a quick check of my notes she reminded me that I was diagnosed with pcos many years ago so she did some blood tests (that all came back normal) and I'm booked for a CD21 blood test next week and a scan in about a month. I'm not sure how I feel about having the tests particularly as I did not go to talk about ttc but I guess it can't hurt to see what the results are.
> 
> Wishing you (and anyone else who reads this thread) lots of luck and positive vibes.

Hi Meado :hi:

I don't think it can hurt at all to see what the results of a blood test are. Is the CD21 test to check specifically for fertility hormones? I'm glad your test for PCOS seems clear. As I mentioned to Wahingirl above, the only test I've had is to check for rubella antibodies, and I'm frankly scared about opening the whole fertility can of worms...no doubt I am in some kind of denial :haha:

I suspect my OH would not be willing to go through the kind of disruption that large-scale intervention would require, tbh. At the moment we are both feeling fatalistic about the ttc business. Whether that would change if we prove to be unable to conceive naturally I don't know. It's like catching the last bus to babyville...

Best of luck to you and your partner :flower:


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## Meado

Afternoon, :wave:

Wahinegir1, I have to completely agree with Hortensia. You have such a balanced and rational view of all this and what you have been through. I take my hat off to you. It's so helpful to have people like you and Hortensia to "talk" to and share thoughts and worries. Thank you for being so honest and sharing your experiences.

How are you feeling now? Any change or developments? Are you booked in to see the Dr on the 31st or have you got to call back then to get an appointment?

Hortensia, CD21 is to check hormones to detect whether ovulation has happened or not. I am in the mind set that knowing cannot do any harm and if a problem is detected then DH and I can decide what we do next (if anything). By the time all my tests and scan is done we'll have been ttc for 6 months and I think that would have been the very earliest we'd have sought help anyway. The way I see it is if we get to that point we'll be ahead of the game on the tests front.


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## wahinegir1

Hi, Ladies - no "new" developments except that I am now 22 days late. I have an appt with the dr for Sept 3 (a week from now which = 4 weeks late). Also I am trying to change dr's if it's possible. Although it may mean starting over again, which is something I very much do not want to do. :/

And it is very comforting indeed to have someone to 'talk' to about all of this. Normally it is something no one wants to actually talk about IRL. Or if they do, they start offering ridiculous platitudes (sometimes out of love or an attempt to comfort or even just to shut you down from such an uncomfortable topic). At this point I start to challenge people when they say things - not in a confrontational way - but in the hopes of making them see how silly some things they say are. 

Often I recall T.S. Eliot's "Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" and the line "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons." Except that mine are ultrasounds and needles and blood tests and countless hpt's.

I am absolutely positive that if it works at all and we do end up with a child, it will be entirely worth it. But seemingly the looming reality is that it won't work and we will have spent our time overseas 'tilting at windmills' (to use another literary reference). We've been in France for one year and possibly have 4 more to go (we aren't guaranteed 'x' number of years here, but less than 5 for sure). We are young, we want to see as much of Europe as we can. And I know it sounds selfish, but if conceiving a child is not in the stars for us, we will have wasted a lot of time, effort, emotions, money, etc in the process. 

Hortensia, we are also rather ambivalent about adoption. I have no doubt that I could love that child as if it were my own. But like you, I have seen friends (and an ex-fiance) who were adopted struggle with their identity. Some make it out of that phase very well and then some are just missing that piece of their self their whole life. Adoption is not an 'easy fix' for infertility, as so many people suggest. ("Why don't you just adopt?")

We are not keen on the idea of donor eggs, sperm or embryo. For some of the same reasons but also in the case of egg/sperm, I thin it would be rather strange for either of us to know that he fathered a child with 'another woman' or vice versa. I know, I know - the child would live within me; but right now, that is how I feel about those options. We would consider using both donor sperm AND donor egg - if they could do a procedure much like they do for IVF (make an embryo and then implant it in me). But I don't know if that's even an option. 

Ugh. Thanks for letting me rant. It is nice to be able to get that off my chest without having to worry about offending anyone.


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## Hortensia

Wahinegir1

Eliot was an expert on barrenness of all kinds (you reminded me of that conversation between the women in the pub in 'The Wasteland' - not the most positive view of human reproduction :haha: :) You know, I think some peace of mind can come from knowing you did all you could to conceive with medical intervention. If you didn't go through it all, you might always wonder what the result could have been. I know that's small comfort right now! Also, the fact that you have conceived before shows that you CAN and I think that's hugely significant. I bet it will only be a matter of time for you. 

Anyway, I hope you get some definite answers soon, and that if you do get a new FS, you don't have to go through all that palaver again as if you'd not done it the first time around. 

Re. adoption; yes, it's a tricky one. My OH has very clear ideas about it. I think it's perhaps a little less attractive an option for men generally (I tend to believe that men want their own biological offspring more, whereas women will love any child in their care). My OH is definitely one of those who has experienced some abandonment issues as a result of adoption - he is very different from his adoptive parents in terms of interests and personality, which makes me think it's nature rather than nurture all the way... 

P.S. your cat is lovely! We have a cat that behaves like a baby - I have no idea what he would do if an actual baby appeared, he would probably be extremely jealous. But I already have enough to worry about :haha:


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## Hortensia

Meado said:


> Hortensia, CD21 is to check hormones to detect whether ovulation has happened or not. I am in the mind set that knowing cannot do any harm and if a problem is detected then DH and I can decide what we do next (if anything). By the time all my tests and scan is done we'll have been ttc for 6 months and I think that would have been the very earliest we'd have sought help anyway. The way I see it is if we get to that point we'll be ahead of the game on the tests front.

That sounds like a wise course of action, as you say, at least you'll have a head start (and at this age, every month counts!) and will then be in a position to decide what to do. 

I think I'm in some kind of denial, tbh. Part of me dreads the idea of being told my a dr that my eggs are rancid, even though I maintain a fairly nonchalant attitude to ttc (or have so far), if it gets to the point of tests to check fertility the can of worms will be well and truly opened. How's that for a childish attitude - at the age of 39 too? :dohh::blush:

They say it takes a healthy couple on average about 6 months in the late 30's, so I hope you and your DH will be on the near end of that average :)


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## wahinegir1

Hortensia, Still no change. I am 2 days away from being 4 weeks late. No symptoms of any sort (AF, pregnancy, or otherwise). I've got 3 days to wait until I get the ultrasound at the dr. Monday morning I will probably be there an hour-and-a-ahalf early just to make sure that I get in that morning. Luckily I've already pushed myself over the "crazy" edge, now I am just "get along with it already". During the first week of being late and negative tests, we went ahead & bought the meds for our 3rd round of IUI. Now I have 900 euros of injectibles sitting in my fridge.

Last time I meant to respond to your thing about cutting down of caffeine & alcohol but I forgot. When we first started to conceive, I went off both and began a pretty strict organic diet. (My GYN in the States laughed and shook his head when I told him this). It may help, but it obviously hasn't for us. After a year and 2 m/c's I said "forget it". You know, when I just knew something was wrong with the first pregnancy, everyone was like "Stop worrying, you're fine. Even crack addicts and alcoholics get pregnant and have babies" (Of course, after the m/c, people started to apologize for brushing my concerns off). But I realized that I was driving myself mad and all for naught. Then I realized that I have some friends who are very overweight - they've gotten pregnant and had healthy babies. Every *body* is different.

So now I eat healthy just for us and prefer organic just because. We have a large garden and live in the country so it is easy to control what we are eating. But we live in France. You almost have wine for breakfast here! I moderate just because. And during my 2WW I have maybe a glass twice a week (actually it is guilt that keeps me from having more).

I would say the most important thing during this time of TTC is to get as much Folic Acid as you can and (as always for women) make sure you are getting Iron. If you are not on prenatals, get on them. You can get them in the USA and in France over-the-counter (without a script).

And yeah, Pippin (the cat) is my baby. Back in 2010, within 4 months I had lost a very dear friend very quickly to cancer, the littermate of my other cat to a blood clot and has our first m/c. During the middle of all this, I came across Pippin at the animal shelter. I guess because all of that, I have heaped (maybe too much) love on him. He is pretty spoiled but he is a lot of fun. It is so funny because until we moved to France (he was about 1 1/2 yrs old), he had never seen a child. Now all the neighbors' kids come over to love on him and he is so patient with them. My female cat, Morwen, can't stand them (or Pippin or DH or anyone other than me) but she's good about staying out-of-the-way. And yes, I am a literary nerd and have named my cats after Tolkien characters.

As promised, I will keep you both posted. I hope we can continue this thread for advice, support or general ranting!


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## Hortensia

Wahinegir1 - best of luck with your scan tomorrow a.m. I hope you get some answers, preferably the answer you want :thumbup: Props for you for putting up with the crazies for a few weeks; I'm sure I would have been driven to distraction!! 

We have two cats, a male and female (non-related). The male is such a baby - he has a morning routine of jumping into bed with DH and myself and cuddling up under my chin with his legs across my shoulders, purring loudly. DH thinks its a ploy to get me up to give him his breakfast, but I think a large part of it is just for affection and reassurance. Love your cats names too :flower:

Re the caffeine and alcohol - I used to work in a profession which was a pretty hard-drinking culture, and tbh you just find yourself joining in because that's what everyone does. Not the best, and I'm glad I changed direction. I have cut back quite a bit but still enjoy a glass or two of wine with dinner every now and again, and I like my single malt whisky and soda the odd time too. I smiled when I read that your doctor had laughed at the drastic diet plan. I guess those guys see so many women get pregnant with no special lifestyle modifications - as you say, junkies and alcoholics - but I think that trying to be healthier gives us a sense of control where otherwise we would feel no control. I have a reasonably healthy diet generally and not overweight (rather have had the opposite problem and formerly an ED) so I'm just making sure I get fresh vegetables and fruit and otherwise not doing much differently. Am taking B vits, D3 (which I always supplement anyway), and CoQ10. I've also moderated my exercise. 

I'm very interested to see what your FS has to say to you, and hope you can just move on with your treatment. 900 worth of injectibles - eep!! And that's just for IUI? What are they? (I know nothing about the IUI process)

:dust:


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## 2have4kids

wahinegir1 said:


> Hortensia, Still no change. I am 2 days away from being 4 weeks late. No symptoms of any sort (AF, pregnancy, or otherwise). I've got 3 days to wait until I get the ultrasound at the dr. Monday morning I will probably be there an hour-and-a-ahalf early just to make sure that I get in that morning. Luckily I've already pushed myself over the "crazy" edge, now I am just "get along with it already". During the first week of being late and negative tests, we went ahead & bought the meds for our 3rd round of IUI. Now I have 900 euros of injectibles sitting in my fridge.
> 
> Last time I meant to respond to your thing about cutting down of caffeine & alcohol but I forgot. When we first started to conceive, I went off both and began a pretty strict organic diet. (My GYN in the States laughed and shook his head when I told him this). It may help, but it obviously hasn't for us. After a year and 2 m/c's I said "forget it". You know, when I just knew something was wrong with the first pregnancy, everyone was like "Stop worrying, you're fine. Even crack addicts and alcoholics get pregnant and have babies" (Of course, after the m/c, people started to apologize for brushing my concerns off). But I realized that I was driving myself mad and all for naught. Then I realized that I have some friends who are very overweight - they've gotten pregnant and had healthy babies. Every *body* is different.
> 
> So now I eat healthy just for us and prefer organic just because. We have a large garden and live in the country so it is easy to control what we are eating. But we live in France. You almost have wine for breakfast here! I moderate just because. And during my 2WW I have maybe a glass twice a week (actually it is guilt that keeps me from having more).
> 
> I would say the most important thing during this time of TTC is to get as much Folic Acid as you can and (as always for women) make sure you are getting Iron. If you are not on prenatals, get on them. You can get them in the USA and in France over-the-counter (without a script).
> 
> And yeah, Pippin (the cat) is my baby. Back in 2010, within 4 months I had lost a very dear friend very quickly to cancer, the littermate of my other cat to a blood clot and has our first m/c. During the middle of all this, I came across Pippin at the animal shelter. I guess because all of that, I have heaped (maybe too much) love on him. He is pretty spoiled but he is a lot of fun. It is so funny because until we moved to France (he was about 1 1/2 yrs old), he had never seen a child. Now all the neighbors' kids come over to love on him and he is so patient with them. My female cat, Morwen, can't stand them (or Pippin or DH or anyone other than me) but she's good about staying out-of-the-way. And yes, I am a literary nerd and have named my cats after Tolkien characters.
> 
> As promised, I will keep you both posted. I hope we can continue this thread for advice, support or general ranting!

I've been following this thread, you ladies are very well spoken and handling things in extremely professional manner. Wahinegirl, can't wait to hear some positive news and even if it's not a bp then just a step into a positive direction would be a relief to hear too. 
I share a love of cats, last year our 8 year old girl 'McKenzie' died in my arms from an asthma attack, I had helped her through 3previous attacks withan emergency kit but she woke us too late at 5am in her full fledged attack-it was horrific. After she died we started fostering pregnant mom cats and the watching the process, helping kittens & mom find forever homes helped heal my heart and forget about that day. Now we have a little spritely girl cat 'Enya' and an 8 year old male cat 'Angus' who's 18 solid pounds of love. They are the angels that fill the void of having babies in my home. I will add babies one day (hopefully soon). 
In the mean time I've filled my life with creative projects, home renos, a busy social life and researching infertility. I really appreciate reading about the lives of others on B&B. 
I don't think it's insignificant to want to have an organic, fresh diet when so much of our food is inundated with chemicals. It's too bad when doctors are sarcastic about this. I agree with H, it allows us some control over our predicament. For me, the most stress comes from not having control over the outcome, having control over my diet, supplements, excercise, things that i do everyday to make me happy, helps me deal with the forlorn (every month after the tww that we fail). Each month I've learned new things that help me want to keep going. And reading snippets of beautiful women around the world ttc like me are one of those things that make me smile and feel I'm in good company- so thanks!
It's my birthday today, I'm 37 and without a bfp, this will be the year, I hope for many of us ltttc'ers we'll see success. I hope there's a board in the pregnancy section for ltttc'er ladies too as a way to stck together through the good times too.:flower:


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## Meado

Hi 2Have4kids, great of you to join the thread. Happy birthday! I am 38 a week tomorrow and I have to say, do not want it to be my birthday. I never thought I'd be 38 before I had a baby and now my goal is to have one before I am 39. I hope this will be the year for both of us (all of us actually) :dance:

Wahinegir1, I'm wishing you luck with every bone in my body and hope that you either have the news we are all hoping for or an explanation that will help you on your journey. Whatever the outcome I'd love us to continue this thread.

Just to add to the diet and supplement conversation; I've lost 18 pounds in the last year, mainly for our wedding but as a result have a very healthy bmi and think it's helpful to maintain it whilst ttc. We always cook from scratch (so no packet meals), I've cut down on caffine and whereas I used to have a diet coke everyday I now have 1 or 2 cans a week maximum. I still enjoy the odd glass or half a bottle of wine but tend to limit it to a few glasses a week in the 2ww. I have been taking a simple folic acid supplement but on the advice of a friend I am about to move on to a more complex pregnacare supplement which also has iron and B12 in it I think. I enjoy exercise (as much as anyone honestly really does), my favourite class being Zumba. I asked the instructor about doing the class whilst ttc and she recommended that I stopped only once pregnant so it's fair to say that when I am in the 2ww I do not "go for it" as much as I do if I am not. I've not run since ttc and so, like you Hortensia, I guess I have moderated my exercise a little.

Hortensia, I'd love to understand CoQ10 some more, would you recommend it?

I'm afraid I don't own any cats - I hope I am still allowed to contribute to this thread despite this news. :winkwink: I'd love a pet but it's not practical with the hours that DH and I work.


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## 2have4kids

LolMeado, you don't need to have fur balls to join and thanks so much for the birthday wishes. Well at 38 you can still be a mom of two or three, it's just a number. I hope your birthday is fabulous.
CoQ10 was recommended to me by my bf who happen's to be a nurse. I used it for my heart palpitations while I was running. Then was diagnosed with severe arthritis and quit running but kept on with the coq10 as it's one of the best antioxidants on the market. Not only will you prevent cancer but you will improve the quality of your eggs. The egg quality claim was proven by a group of Canadian scientists who used it on rats-it worked really well. Anyway, it's oil based, take it with food. I take 800mg (400mg twice/day). vit e is the next best antioxidant and vit c has studies with higher rates of preg too. 
I hope you're all having a great weekend. I'm off to bed now.


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## wahinegir1

AAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK!

Just typed a pretty long response to all you Ladies and my browser crashed before I could post. Par for the course to my day so far.

I will give you all the abbreviated version, then I would like to respond to all of you in the next couple of days. (Also, welcome 2Have4Kids)

Ultrasound - no pregnancy, huge follicle (19mm), endometrium good (11mm). Bloodwork shows elevated progesterone which means I am not ovulating, so the huge follicle must be a cyst. Dr prescribed Duphaston for 10 days to kick start the period. Next cycle we do for IUI#3.

Lesson here: don't just take your FSH injectible without having the trigger shot because you'll just get giant follicles with no ovulation. 

I am ok, I pretty much expected this to be the outcome - although I admit there was a teeny part of me that wanted a big surprise this morning. At least there isn't anything really wrong. (Except for the fact that my appointment was at 10:30AM and I didn't get seen until noon AND the doctor didn't even know why I was there, which again confirms that her secretaries are not sharing my information with her when I call)

So I will catch up with you Ladies in a day or so. :) Thanks for your support!


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## Hortensia

2have4kids said:


> I've been following this thread, you ladies are very well spoken and handling things in extremely professional manner. Wahinegirl, can't wait to hear some positive news and even if it's not a bp then just a step into a positive direction would be a relief to hear too.
> I share a love of cats, last year our 8 year old girl 'McKenzie' died in my arms from an asthma attack, I had helped her through 3previous attacks withan emergency kit but she woke us too late at 5am in her full fledged attack-it was horrific. After she died we started fostering pregnant mom cats and the watching the process, helping kittens & mom find forever homes helped heal my heart and forget about that day. Now we have a little spritely girl cat 'Enya' and an 8 year old male cat 'Angus' who's 18 solid pounds of love. They are the angels that fill the void of having babies in my home. I will add babies one day (hopefully soon).
> In the mean time I've filled my life with creative projects, home renos, a busy social life and researching infertility. I really appreciate reading about the lives of others on B&B.
> I don't think it's insignificant to want to have an organic, fresh diet when so much of our food is inundated with chemicals. It's too bad when doctors are sarcastic about this. I agree with H, it allows us some control over our predicament. For me, the most stress comes from not having control over the outcome, having control over my diet, supplements, excercise, things that i do everyday to make me happy, helps me deal with the forlorn (every month after the tww that we fail). Each month I've learned new things that help me want to keep going. And reading snippets of beautiful women around the world ttc like me are one of those things that make me smile and feel I'm in good company- so thanks!
> It's my birthday today, I'm 37 and without a bfp, this will be the year, I hope for many of us ltttc'ers we'll see success. I hope there's a board in the pregnancy section for ltttc'er ladies too as a way to stck together through the good times too.:flower:


2have4kids - :cake: Happy (belated) Birthday!! 

Hope you had a special day. 37 is nothing, btw :winkwink: 

You know, I lurked on this section a lot last year, and many of the ladies who were on the 35+ have since had their babies, so I'm completely convinced that will happen for most of the women currently on the boards too. :thumbup:


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## Hortensia

Meado, 

I think you're right about the BMI - I think it does make a difference, and apart from TTC it's just better for long-term health. My OH is a big guy but has lost about 2 stone in the past 3 months - when he sets his mind to it he has a will of iron - and I'm proud of him for doing it. I've been away working for part of this year and since I do most of the cooking it was pretty easy for him to eat naughty stuff over the winter and the result was a pretty hefty weight gain :haha: Even the cat was overweight when I came back - he's been on a diet too and I've managed to get him down to a healthy BMI :rofl:

My OH is the one with the sweet tooth in this outfit - my downfall is salty snacks. I try to avoid having crisps in the house because tbh if I know they are there I will hunt them down and demolish them until they are no more!!

I've decided moderate exercise is the way to go, so it's a brisk 30 min walk most days, when I'm not being a lazy ass... 

Re. the CoQ10 - I started this about a fortnight ago. I'm only taking 50mg of ubiquinol (the more active form) daily, though I know loads of people on here are on much higher doses and it's fine at higher doses. It's mainly the expense keeps me on 50mg - it costs a fortune!! As 2have4kids says, it has anti-oxidant properties and is supposed to help with energy, and goodness knows I could do with that. I can't say there's been an appreciable difference, but I'm considering upping my dosage once I get hold of a cheaper source.

Wahinegir1 - glad you finally got an answer to your question!!! :thumbup: At least you finally know what's going on. 

Is the giant follicle a direct result of not taking the trigger shot? I hope af comes soon and you can get back on track. I wanted to ask you - how is your DH with IUI? It's just that I can't imagine mine going through the whole providing sperm process and I know other women on here have had DH's who have had issues with it. Although when you consider what we women have to go through, it's hardly asking much, I think :shrug:


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## wahinegir1

Hey Ladies - I hope you're still around. Sorry it has been so long since I've gotten back to you. this past week has been crazy and not so great. But things are kind of slowing down, so I'd like to try to respond to you all!

Meado - happy very belated birthday! I am there with you, except now I staring down 39 and wondering if I will have yet another birthday without a child. :( I think I have resolved that we will stop trying next March (trying the treatments). If it doesn't happen by then, I don't know if I am ready to continue this ride. I want us to be a happy, joyful couple - no matter what happens. But these treatments are dragging me down.
And of course, not having pets is ok! :) Sometimes I worry about myself becoming too attached to my kitties in lieu of having a child. All the doting/nuturing energy I have gets spent on them so they are COMPLETELY spoiled.

2Have4Kids - I feel your pain in regards to your kitty passing away in your arms. My Thorin (yes another Tolkien name), who was a litter brother to Morwen (I actually adopted hei first then the rescue agency conned me into adopting her) passed from a thrown blood clot the day after Halloween 2010. I was the only one home and this was a couple of months after having lost a very dear friend, very quickly, from colon cancer. I was screaming wailing as I was driving Thorin to the vet - I thought they could save him but they couldn't. DH was in a meeting at work so I couldn't get through to him. Oh, it was horrible. A few days later I adopted Pippin then almost 2 months later I had my 1st m/c. So Pippin is VERY babied. But he is sweet and affectionate so I get a little something out of it.


Hortensia - I am not sure what caused the cyst. I am guessing that since I never have had this problem before, it must be the FSH injection without the ovulation trigger. who knows???
Regarding DH and his involvement in the whole process, I think I probably have more of an issue than he does. Although I think it gets weird for him at times too. So far he's had to provide 3 different samples for analysis and 2 for the actual insemination. I think men are more 'indoctrinated' into suffering embarrassing things than women (locker rooms, urinals, etc). I know for him, sitting in a waiting room with a bunch of other guys all waiting for the same thing is a little uneasy. The first time we had to do a sample for analysis, we were back in the USA and were able to make the collection together at home. (We lived less than 5 minutes from the lab) At the last insemination, the dr actually allowed DH to 'push the plunger', which actually injected the sperm through the catheter into my uterus.
Even though I am not a prude, I just don't like pornography - especially in a relationship. For me, it is sad and disheartening the whole sperm collecting process. Because most men need/want some stimulation to get that going. So instead of us having a romantic/steamy session together, he is looking at Photoshopped 'perfect' women to get his rocks off. (Now he doesn't engage in pornography at home) For me, it kind of adds to that 'inadequateness' I sometimes feel. 
I don't know if any of that makes sense...ask me if it doesn't and I will try to clarify.

While we were on the subject of health and weight loss...

Before we started this process I was thin - not tiny, but healthy. I am athletically built and spent a lot of time practicing yoga. I was about a size 6-8 (USA sizes) and if I ever dipped below that, people would tell me I looked bad. But since the medication, I feel like a sausage. I have gained so much weight - I have hardly anything that fits - and I refuse to buy anything larger (mostly because things are SO expensive in France). I haven't much motivation to exercise although I have all the time in the world. I've bought some yoga DVD's to practice at home and some cardio too. But I also wonder how much is too much - I have this fear of starting to exercise just before a procedure then doing something harmful to the fetus after. 

I'll be honest, I am just down. I hate my body, not just because I can't fit into anything anymore - but because in some way I feel betrayed by it. I used to think there was some solace in being able to get pregnant, but what's the good in getting pregnant if I can't stay pregnant? 

And you know how women who are pregnant or have had a baby say that they just felt so complete...like they finally discovered the purpose of their body/life? I wonder if it never happens for us, will I always be missing that part of me?

(Now you can probably see why I haven't written in a while, because I am so.down.)

Nevertheless, I press on. I bought some Omega-3 and am taking that as well as the pre-natal vitamins. I've yet to find the CoQ-10 here...maybe I can get someone from the States to send it to me. 

I started the Duphaston last Tues to bring on my AF, 2 pills a day for 10 days. Normally AF arrives 10 days after you STOP taking the Duphaston. Well, AF arrived last Fri and she is out-of-control! Today is Wed and I am going through a Super-Plus tampon every couple of hours. Very unusual for me (and annoying). Also, as prescribed, we are doing the 125mg of Puregon (FSH stimulating injection) every night - and we're on night 4 of that. This coming Fri will be CD7 & I have an ultrasound scheduled to monitor ovulation. (I hope AF stops by then) I guess after that we'll probably trigger Sun or Mon and have the insemination Tue or Wed. That is *IF* everything goes well.

Thank you Ladies for being such a great support! I told DH it is so nice to have a group of women who are going through the same thing to bounce thoughts/feelings off of - without judgement. It means very much to me.


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## wahinegir1

Hey Ladies! Hope y'all are still there. Small update...

Went for the ultrasound today to monitor the progress of my follicles after taking the FSH for week. I have 7,but only one shows real promise (3 on the right at 16mm, 12mm & 10mm; 4 on the left 10mm (x2), 11mm and 12 mm).

So I do my ovulation trigger tomorrow (Sat) and we go for IUI #3 Mon. Then the drive-me-crazy 2ww begins.


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## 2have4kids

wahinegir1 I'm sorry about that domino line up of horrific events. How stressful is that! Very glad to hear you had a good strong af even if it was annoying, sets the tone for good things to come. Go follies go! I'm cheering for you all the way over here in canada.
Bonne chance!


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## wahinegir1

Thanks! IUI #3 happened today. Unfortunately DH couldn't be there for the actual insemination, nor could my usual dr. So here's hoping the change-up will work some magic?!?

Even though everything says it's ok to resume normal daily activities after the procedure, I am kicking back today and relaxing. I haven't seen this really on other sites, but for me, I experience a lot of cramping and lower-abdominal discomfort the day of/after the insemination. It's like feeling very bloated or gassy - of which I am neither. So really I just feel better relaxing and taking it easy.

How's everyone else? A couple of you were waiting on some test results and talks with our dr's. Any news/developments?


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## 2have4kids

I did the same after iui, hate that feeling during and gave myself permission to relax afterward. Going to the fc this aft to beg for an autoimmune panel to be done. Everyone keeps ignoring my instincts that what I have going on could be related to my arthritis. I'm a bit peeved that my naturopath didn't order one (the main reason I went), I asked her to and she said it's not necessary. Huh? I've had surgeries, been properly diagnosed stage 4 arthritis why not do some simple bloods and see if there's something going on? Totally annoyed.


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## wahinegir1

I had the same problem here in France. I wanted to have a Factor V(5) Leiden done to find out why I have been losing so many pregnancies so early. I really had to push my dr to do them, then she did the auto-immune panels and chromosomal testing. 16 phials of blood later - nada. Everything is normal. But I don't understand why most women have to wait until after a 3rd miscarriage to have these tests done. If I elect to have them done and pay for them, couldn't I save myself some heartache (if there was indeed a factor there)?

I feel like most of these specialists have never gone through fertility treatment. The general blase manner that my group seems to have is almost insulting. 

What did you dr say? Are you getting the panels done?

I am in day 3 of the crazies. Really trying to stay calm and not focus on figuring out what every little twinge or hiccup means. Even though I've lost all pregnancies earl, none of them had the same symptoms. I don't even know what to expect.

I am drinking a glass of pineapple juice and another glass of grape juice a day. The silly things we do.


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## 2have4kids

wahinegir1 said:


> I had the same problem here in France. I wanted to have a Factor V(5) Leiden done to find out why I have been losing so many pregnancies so early. I really had to push my dr to do them, then she did the auto-immune panels and chromosomal testing. 16 phials of blood later - nada. Everything is normal. But I don't understand why most women have to wait until after a 3rd miscarriage to have these tests done. If I elect to have them done and pay for them, couldn't I save myself some heartache (if there was indeed a factor there)?
> 
> I feel like most of these specialists have never gone through fertility treatment. The general blase manner that my group seems to have is almost insulting.
> 
> What did you dr say? Are you getting the panels done?
> 
> I am in day 3 of the crazies. Really trying to stay calm and not focus on figuring out what every little twinge or hiccup means. Even though I've lost all pregnancies earl, none of them had the same symptoms. I don't even know what to expect.
> 
> I am drinking a glass of pineapple juice and another glass of grape juice a day. The silly things we do.

I learned that I have a thyroid problem that came up in the bloods in Feb. Feb! I would have appreciated knowing this during the follow up back in March so that I could have been working on it. She told me now because she wants me to get it better before IVF in nov/dec. 
You're right it does feel that they're a little apathetic to the whole thing. It must be nice seeing so many women come in, be totally frustrated and then give them babies but there's much to still be desired in between. 
In the end she sent me for genetic testing and I'm happy about that. Baby steps in the right direction. I guess I'm stupidly always shocked when I wind up not pregnant at the end of each month. With all we know, all I'm doing and everything that's been diagnosed, I don't get tired of trying I'm just always surprised that we're not successful. How hard can it be for just 1 :spermy: get into that big delicious egg? Read that website back and forth and do what you need to do to stop those m/c's. If it means drinking pineapple juice or whatever lol. My hubbie read an article in BBC news that some women are too efficient at getting pregnant. Their bodies don't expell the bad eggs/blasts early on when when they need to, they let everything into pregnancy stage. I was terrified of this as it happened to my mom too. She was on an adoption list when she got pregnant with me. There is hope! Keep your chin up:thumbup:


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