# Birth is not only...



## SyllyPoohBear

"Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz Rothman 

Just some encouragement that ALL women can birth naturally and find that inner strength. :flower:


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## GingerNut

Not all mothers can birth naturally, it's not a question of inner strength, sometimes it's a medical impossibility or just plain dangerous to both mother and baby.

You're unfairly belittling women who don't give birth naturally.


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## tristansmum

i second the above. i'm sure you don't mean to cause offense but it gonna upset alot of women. i tried very hard to push my son out naturally but after forcepts couldn't even turn him i had a emergency c section. i used all my inner strength but he had other ideas!!!


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## SyllyPoohBear

I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.


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## JayDanny

I don't see where she is "belittling" women who have not had a vaginal birth. You're being unfair by saying that. If you disagree with the post then just say so, don't put words into her mouth just because you are offended by what she believes. 

While I agree that some women DO have a real medical need for intervention it does not mean that women can't still hope, believe and trust in their bodies at all.

To each her own.


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## tristansmum

SyllyPoohBear said:


> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.

i think we are in different countries. didn't realise you were talking about epidurals... our rates are much lower.


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## Seity

What's wrong with not enduring unnecessary pain? 
I'll take a pass on that any day. If someone wants to be in excruciating pain, that's their choice. Same as it's mine to happily not be in any pain.
Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.


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## embojet

Seity said:


> What's wrong with not enduring unnecessary pain?
> I'll take a pass on that any day. If someone wants to be in excruciating pain, that's their choice. Same as it's mine to happily not be in any pain.
> Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.

:thumbup:


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## Eternal

SyllyPoohBear said:


> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.

I have to have an epi or a spinal as im having twins and they do that incase the second baby goes into distress (which is common with twins) and it could be likely I would have a section. 

Would I love to have a natural labour? Yes, my son was planned to be a birthing centre water birth but had major complications and had to be transfered to hospital and have more interventions. 

Do i think im less of a woman or mother because i have had interventions? or because i will have an epi this time or possible section? No. How you give birth does not depict what type of mother you will be. Infact, a section is my worse nightmare secenario, but because i love my babies i will do whats right, best and safest for them.


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## luvmyfam

It is belittling women who choose to have an epidural. It is fine if you choose to go all natural but some strong women ang great moms make their own decision to have an epidural. And as women who are going through the same thing, we should not look down on them for their decision but we should be supportive and open to their choice. Everyone is different. Everyone experiences labor in different ways. And they should be able to make their own choice without other women judging them. 

Ok off my soapbox!


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## sequeena

Birth is also about screaming bloody murder at whoever dares to come near you :rofl:


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## JayDanny

Why are all of you ganging up on her!? It's so unfair of you. If you don't have anything nice to say don't post it. Is this some sort of bandwagon thing, "hey let's gang up on the member who happens to believe in natural childbirth, and had the audacity to post about it." We're not here to change each others opinions we're here to support each other in their OWN PERSONAL choice. Frankly, I am a little disappointed in the some of the members who have replied to this. I don't think baby and bump was created to slam each other for what they choose or believe. Thank you.


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## luvmyfam

I am in no way against natural labor!! What I was saying is that people should be able to make their OWN PERSONAL CHOICE and not get put down for it whether it be natural or with epidural.


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## NotJustMama

Thank you to all those ladies who chose to support the decision of those who CHOSE to have epidurals and elective c sections, as well as emerg c sections. This is my no means a reflection on what kind of mother a person will be and does not make these women any less of a part of the process because they chose to have medication/epidurals and c sections. I am choosing to decrease pain and stress to my child by CHOOSING and epidural....and proud of it!!


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## NotJustMama

JayDanny said:


> Why are all of you ganging up on her!? It's so unfair of you. If you don't have anything nice to say don't post it. Is this some sort of bandwagon thing, "hey let's gang up on the member who happens to believe in natural childbirth, and had the audacity to post about it." We're not here to change each others opinions we're here to support each other in their OWN PERSONAL choice. Frankly, I am a little disappointed in the some of the members who have replied to this. I don't think baby and bump was created to slam each other for what they choose or believe. Thank you.

I do not think that is what was being done at all. I think the issue is that anyone in labor needs support, epidural or not, natural or not....


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## GingerNut

JayDanny said:


> Why are all of you ganging up on her!? It's so unfair of you. If you don't have anything nice to say don't post it. Is this some sort of bandwagon thing, "hey let's gang up on the member who happens to believe in natural childbirth, and had the audacity to post about it." We're not here to change each others opinions we're here to support each other in their OWN PERSONAL choice. Frankly, I am a little disappointed in the some of the members who have replied to this. I don't think baby and bump was created to slam each other for what they choose or believe. Thank you.

The OP isn't supporting everyone in their own personal choice though, she's supporting women who have her own personal definition of a 'natural birth'. There's a clear implication that women who have any other sort of birth are lacking in 'inner strength'. 

As far as I'm concerned, what's more important than encouraging each other to find our 'inner strength' to have a 'natural birth', is telling each other that we should be open minded about labour, and recognise that there are many uncontrollable factors which can dictate how the birth goes. We should be prepared to accept a birth that isn't what we expected, without getting upset about it, and that the most important thing is for mother and baby to get through the experience in the best shape possible, by whatever method is best.


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## aliss

Well, I agree that all women can give birth without an epidural. Epidural is simply the pain relief, the baby will come out whether you are coping with your reasonable labour pains or your 5 days of back-to-back labour and passing out from pain. True C-sections being an exception of course (ie. transverse baby). Whether or not a woman actually chooses to endure such a labour or not, is simply her business and between her and her medical doctor. 

I had an epidural on the 2nd day of labour, after tearing an abdominal muscle and 26 hours of contractions (on pitocin for infection), and I kept passing out on the birthing ball, there comes a point where women should not have to be made to feel guilty for choosing pain relief. There's a difference between advising someone of the risks and empowering them - and trying to instill guilt for not doing things the natural way. I think that quote really skirts that division.

Would I have preferred to do it without an epidural? Of course, or I wouldn't have done 26 hours on pitocin in the first place. I think there is a time and a place for epidurals. And even if it's not what I deem to be "the time and place" (ie. first time mother gets one before the first contraction because she simply doesn't want to feel the pain), then how on earth is that any of my business anyways. The only thing I wish, is that women were more informed of the risks before they make their decision.


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## missmayhem

i'm afraid to say MY personal believe is the same as the OP's


but its my view and i respect that of others, its your body you do what you want with it.

for me i am going to try and be as natural as possible, i've just completed a degree in anthropology so know the workings of the pelvis, childbirth etc etc, how the pelivs has changed since becoming bi-pedal and is not adapted of large headed babys.....

but i belive that 500yrs so there were no epidurals etc and woman coped with the pain just fine..... they strangled their husbands given half the chance


my view is this is what my body is deisgned for, however i also had added compications of spina bifida and a previously broken back. but i will give it a damned good shot at doing it with no pain relief.

if i need drugs however i will be taking what i can get my hands on, but i would just like to try the whole experience, i was told last yr i couldn't have kids and my first thought weirdly was but i will never know if my body can cope with labour, i felt like i had been robbed.


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## JayDanny

Do not read my posts with a preconceived notion that I am NOT open-minded to the different options there are in childbirth. I hate using the term "open-minded" because when I tell someone they are not being "open-minded" to my beliefs I am saying that I am not being open-minded to their beliefs. How can I say they are not accepting my beliefs when I am obviously not accepting theirs? It's being hypocritical.

I truly believe that a woman in labor needs to follow her own conviction and do what she feels is best. She MUST feel comfortable with the decisions being made. Because if the mommy is stressed the baby is stressed. I have been extremely supportive of women in my family and my friends who do not share my passion for natural childbirth. Even when they wanted nothing do to with my ideals. For instance, my cousin recently had a baby in June. She developed hypertension, weighed the pros and cons and felt the safest thing for her baby was to have an elective c-section. All I can do is applaud her for her bravery, for looking at the facts and making a hard decision so wisely. Just because I believe in natural childbirth does NOT mean that I condemn women who have not. Why does this topic need to be so cut-throat? Making assumptions about the other based on one reply to one thread!?


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## JayDanny

NotJustMama said:


> Thank you to all those ladies who chose to support the decision of those who CHOSE to have epidurals and elective c sections, as well as emerg c sections. This is my no means a reflection on what kind of mother a person will be and does not make these women any less of a part of the process because they chose to have medication/epidurals and c sections. I am choosing to decrease pain and stress to my child by CHOOSING and epidural....and proud of it!!

Thank you to all of those ladies who choose to support those who CHOSE NOT to have an epidural and elective c-sections. This is by no means a reflection of your personality and does not mean you hate or condemn women who do. I choose not to decease my own personal pain with an epidural or other drugs and I choose to do it again...And yes I am proud of it and will not allow anyone to steal my joy over the way I choose to do it and i hope you too will not allow anyone to steal the joy of your labor just because they don't agree with your decisions! After all this is about the baby, not about us. "Healthy mom+healthy baby=healthy family." It's from the Bradley Method. https://bradleybirth.com/


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## JayDanny

missmayhem said:


> i'm afraid to say MY personal believe is the same as the OP's
> 
> 
> but its my view and i respect that of others, its your body you do what you want with it.
> 
> for me i am going to try and be as natural as possible, i've just completed a degree in anthropology so know the workings of the pelvis, childbirth etc etc, how the pelivs has changed since becoming bi-pedal and is not adapted of large headed babys.....
> 
> but i belive that 500yrs so there were no epidurals etc and woman coped with the pain just fine..... they strangled their husbands given half the chance
> 
> 
> my view is this is what my body is deisgned for, however i also had added compications of spina bifida and a previously broken back. but i will give it a damned good shot at doing it with no pain relief.
> 
> if i need drugs however i will be taking what i can get my hands on, but i would just like to try the whole experience, i was told last yr i couldn't have kids and my first thought weirdly was but i will never know if my body can cope with labour, i felt like i had been robbed.

Understanding what happens to your body during childbirth makes it easier to accept the pain, relax and allow your body to do what it is supposed to. I hope all goes well with your labor. Remember there is no such thing as "chickening out" so don't feel bad or guilty if things don't go according to your plans.


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## DaisyBee

I had an epidural and don't feel like I'm any less of a mom or didn't find my inner strength. I was induced at 37 weeks because they thought Megan had stopped growing. Medically they thought it was necessary to get her out ASAP. So being strapped to the iv for the pitocin and my other arm attached to a blood pressure cuff I wasn't allowed in a tub, I wasn't allowed to walk. My only options were to be 2 feet away from my bed either standing leaning against the bed, on the birthing ball, or on my bed. After they broke my water I did not have the strength to get off the bed. My body was shaking so bad that I couldn't stand. I then was in bed. I was not tolerating it well. I made the decision to have the epidural and very glad that I did. I don't feel bad or guilty at all about it. I then was able to enjoy my delivery as was able to be present. Otherwise I would not have been.... 

I don't think it's fair of the op to put judgment on women that choose something different than what she would choose.


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## JayDanny

sequeena said:


> Birth is also about screaming bloody murder at whoever dares to come near you :rofl:

The only person I yelled at was my poor DH. Poor guy, he had really bad gas and his burps were literally making me vomit! It's funny now but at the time I was p:growlmad:d.


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## sequeena

JayDanny said:


> sequeena said:
> 
> 
> Birth is also about screaming bloody murder at whoever dares to come near you :rofl:
> 
> The only person I yelled at was my poor DH. Poor guy, he had really bad gas and his burps were literally making me vomit! It's funny now but at the time I was p:growlmad:d.Click to expand...

Oh no!!

I was monitored quite a lot during labour because of the problems I had during pregnancy and it got to the point that I did not want to be touched at all so when the midwives were monitoring Thomas' heartbeat I begged them to stop touching me... in the end I called them c*nts! It stopped them touching me though :blush: poor OH didn't know what to do, one minute I'd hold his hand and he'd wet my forehead the next I've be trying to bite his hand off :rofl:


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## NaturalMomma

Hmm, I've never took that quote as for NCB. I took it as women are strong and instinctive mothers, regradless of how you gave birth.


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## JayDanny

sequeena said:


> JayDanny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sequeena said:
> 
> 
> Birth is also about screaming bloody murder at whoever dares to come near you :rofl:
> 
> The only person I yelled at was my poor DH. Poor guy, he had really bad gas and his burps were literally making me vomit! It's funny now but at the time I was p:growlmad:d.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh no!!
> 
> I was monitored quite a lot during labour because of the problems I had during pregnancy and it got to the point that I did not want to be touched at all so when the midwives were monitoring Thomas' heartbeat I begged them to stop touching me... in the end I called them c*nts! It stopped them touching me though :blush: poor OH didn't know what to do, one minute I'd hold his hand and he'd wet my forehead the next I've be trying to bite his hand off :rofl:Click to expand...

Lmao! Yeah, I was the same way. Finally I just told him to leave because I didn't want to stress him out and/or say something mean I would regret. But in the end when she started to crown his face was the only one I wanted to see and the only hand I wanted to hold. I NEEDED him at that point of no return! lol Oh man he loves me. I need to give him a kiss now. ;)

My mom is a midwife and she said that one time a woman was so uncontrollable that she tried to deck my mom! Barely missed my mom because my mom grabbed her wrist and got into her face and said that if she tried that again my mom would press charges against her and that being in labor was no excuse for violence. The story still cracks me up but my mom doesn't think it's funny.


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## nov_mum

I took the post to be offering encouragement to women and celebrating child birth : )


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## cupcake

I know I am going to be slated for saying this but I don't care, since when has giving birth been a testimony to who you are as a woman? sometimes i think all these birth plans and philosophies are focused on way too much, its about having a baby, that is born healthy and then raising that child the best way you know how. nobody cares how i gave birth ( except for other expecting moms who want to know what their experience might be like), no one is going to give me a medal for having an epidural or not, no one is going to see my kid misbehave and be like, "oh he must have been a epidural baby" or "he must have been a natural birth" 

yes we have all had good experience and bad ones, sometimes things go the way we would like it , sometimes not and we have to get over it and work through it, thats the way life is. I'm sorry if its a bit of a rant, but I am a little annoyed by all these signatures too stating a bajillion things about you as a mom, you are either a blw, co-sleeping, bf, etc etc.. lets just be moms and not judge each other

I am sure op was just trying to give some encouragement for those who want to do natural labor, so lets not turn this into an argument, at the same time OP statements like you made were not fair to those who cannot or don't want to birth naturally. 

Edit: obviously my statement about things not going planned is not meant to be insensitive to those who have gone through tragedy, I am just stating that if something doesn't go as we want , somehow we have to deal with that in our lives, I mean no insensitivity to those in pain and hope it won't be perceived that way

op your post
It should have gone in the natural parenting section.


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## nov_mum

I think labour,birthing, mothering are all wonderful things that we as women are capable of. I don't think it's abut gratification from others. Most don't have home births to prove anything to anyone. It's about your personal experience and what it means to you and your family. I don't think it is unfair to talk about labour and birth around those that have opted not or had no choice in not being able to labour. One woman's experience shouldn't detract from another's and it shouldn't make going through labour something to be ashamed of or seen as an 'alternative' that gets relegated to sub forums. There are plenty of threads about c section that don't attract controversy fpr being unfair to those who choose vaginal births. 

I personally am really proud of my body for growing and delivering two, nearly three children. I think that is worth celebrating and my medals I get to cuddle every day. I don't expect anyone else to care but it's not about anyone else is it?


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## cherryglitter

SyllyPoohBear said:


> *I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals.* And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.

Cheeeeers! :thumbup:
it is to do with me and i will take offense. 

i felt like complete shit after having jake because i felt like my body had completely failed me and him. i ended up with a forceps delivery, after an induction after being 2 weeks late.
and i believe that these attitudes made it a lot worse for me.


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## nickyXjayno

GingerNut said:


> Not all mothers can birth naturally, it's not a question of inner strength, sometimes it's a medical impossibility or just plain dangerous to both mother and baby.
> 
> You're unfairly belittling women who don't give birth naturally.

Oooh for goodness sake get a grip!

Why can't women who want to be give birth naturally be praised for fear of offending those who can't?!
Just because one person does something another can't doesn't mean she shouldn't be made to feel great for it!!

oooh am sick of this forum and comments like that!!!


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## cherryglitter

^^ also doesn't mean someone else should be made to feel crap because of it either?! swings and roundabouts.


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## nickyXjayno

luvmyfam said:


> I am in no way against natural labor!! What I was saying is that people should be able to make their OWN PERSONAL CHOICE and not get put down for it whether it be natural or with epidural.

Where was she putting someone down?!

Why does praising someone for something automatically mean we are putting down another?


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## nickyXjayno

cherryglitter said:


> ^^ also doesn't mean someone else should be made to feel crap because of it either?! swings and roundabouts.

where the hell is she making someone feel like crap?

If someone has an insecurity and takes offense to it then that's their problem because NO WHERE has she said you are a crap mum if you didn't give birth naturally.


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## cherryglitter

> It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths

OP is talking about women who have epidurals, who basically 'wimp' out of a natural birth. So yeah, i find that offensive. i take it as implying women who dont have natural births as not being the above?


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## aliss

Not to be pedantic but the OP is quoting another author :flower:

Anyways, it implies that women who use epidurals do not trust themselves and their inner strength. 

I am 100% _against_ epidurals personally, as my son suffered a severe complication from mine - BUT - my own negative experience (or another woman's positive experience of non-epidural birth) does not reflect a woman's inability to channel her "inner strength" - it simply means she has chosen to give birth with pain relief and that is her choice.

Yes, all women can labour without one, that is clear. However, that does not mean that an "inner strength" can deliver women from a horrifically traumatizing experience either. I had over 2 days of pitocin contractions and a ripped abdominal muscle part-way through (from violent contractions) and 4 hours pushing, no amount of inner strength could have helped me from wanting to cut my wrists with the scalpel I saw across the room. I am 100% traumatized from labour because of it and still freak out/cry when I see any sort of labour show on TV (even in the description).


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## nickyXjayno

cherryglitter said:


> It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths
> 
> OP is talking about women who have epidurals, who basically 'wimp' out of a natural birth. So yeah, i find that offensive. i take it as implying women who dont have natural births as not being the above?Click to expand...

But it's sort of true, how can you know how strong you are and how much you can endure if you have never reached your limits?
Not just in childbirth but life in general.
Until you say run a marathon you wouldn't know your true physical capabilities.

People will only find something offensive if on some level they think it too, no matter how subconscious.

Yes I want a natural birth but if I don't because it's too painful or complications then I won't see myself as a failure or that this post or ones like it are deliberately putting me down.

At the end of the day if some woman has gone through hell and back in labour with no relief I find it awful that she can't be congratulated on it incase it offends others.
My mam had a c section but she isn't any less of a mum to me, best mummy in the world and would do anything for me and my sister.

What's the saying it's not the mouth it comes out of but the mind it goes into...


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## DJJ

SyllyPoohBear said:


> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz Rothman
> 
> Just some encouragement that ALL women can birth naturally and find that inner strength. :flower:

When I read the quote I didnt relate it to any particular type of birth but the very fact of giving birth which ever way will bring out a womans strength. all births will cause a woman to make desisions that cant be easy but in the long run make them stronger. 
It was the OP comment after the quote that seems to have got peoples back up. 
I dont know where the quote is from so dont know if Ive read it out of context.


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## DaisyBee

I took offense to the ops statement-not to the quote. And her 2nd post responding back was rude as well. 

I feel this post is putting down sections and epis more that praising natural childbirth only because of the words the op chose. When she says "ALL" women it's implying things. When she states epi rates, etc it changes the whole tone of the quote and post.


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## Eternal

DaisyBee said:


> I took offense to the ops statement-not to the quote. And her 2nd post responding back was rude as well.
> 
> I feel this post is putting down sections and epis more that praising natural childbirth only because of the words the op chose. When she says "ALL" women it's implying things. When she states epi rates, etc it changes the whole tone of the quote and post.


^^ WSS

Also added, to whoever said why shouldnt women who go to hell and back to have a natural childbirth be congratulated? They are, but why shouldnt every woman, no matter what their experience.

I think the majority of us would love a natural child birth, but it cant happen for some of us for whatever reasons. As for reaching your capabilities and having to experience natural to know yourself etc etc. then babies die, mothers die, we make decisions on what is best for us individually, no one will congratulate you if you describe to do it naturally against medical advice and baby or mother die. 

At the end of the day we all our our own thersholds, as for the pain factor, yes i am sure every woman can endure it, but epidurals are used for assisted deliveries, sections or where its likely to be a section and various other reasons.

I would have loved to have a natural water birth with my son, and i was deversated when i was transfered 40 miles to hospital. If i didnt my baby could have died, im a good mum, i did what as right and i wont have people casting judgments on me for "failing" to have a fully natural birth.

No one is casting judgements or saying anything against natural birthing, i am sure most of the ladies who commented would have loved to and thats why we feel strongly about it. Stop casting judgments or thinking your better than someone else just because you got the birth you wanted and others didnt. 

No one is slating the quote, it was the comments made that got people upset.


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## cherryglitter

well said eternal :)
why is so much merit placed on how much pain we can endure? we're not macho men for god's sake haha!

i know for a fact jake would've died if i had not gone through the things i went through.


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## nov_mum

A common theme that emerges in mummy circles is that c section mums or formula feeding mums feel that anyone talking about natural births or breast feeding is making them feel like crap. The only person who can make you feel that way is yourself though. If I went through a traumatic birth that ended in surgery then that is just what happened, it would be my experience. My experience doesn't mean that mothers who birthed in a different manner are awful to talk of their experience or any other connotation. Someone who embraces natural childbirth and aims for a drug free birth is someone who does just that. The mere mention of a straight forward, low to no intervention birth almost always causes a commotion as people defensively read in to statements and feel that the person implies they are less of a person. The obligatory "no one gives you a medal, you won't be so smug when you wee yourself later in life, my vagina is untouched and not saggy" comments emerge. 

Everyone has a story to tell and while it may be of interest to others at times, the majority of the time the only person it matters to is yourself. Why can't we all just recognise that we all have our own stories, we all made our own choices and we have all brought a little being in to the world. Even if people think that you took the easy way out and opted for all the drugs in the world and the easiest exit of the baby (whatever you term that to be) who cares? It's the same people who say they don't care, who gives you a medal etc that always rant that they feel put down. Ironic...


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## dizzy65

i personally think any woman that gives birth is very strong weither it be by c-section or with a epidural.. it takes a lot out of you and we all should be proud of our selfs for accomplishing it :flower: i personally had a natural childbirth in some ways i guess.. i didnt have an epidural i had 2 shots of morph.. but did the pushin part with no pain meds i was also in labour for 26.5 hours.. it take a lot out of you.. and in my own personal eyes taking an epidural personally scared the crap out of me only because i didnt like the idea of the cathetar (yes im a baby) haha.. but we all are very strong willed and very strong for going threw with carrying our childern and we should all be very proud of our selves.. 

i also felt that the op's second response was a bit rude tbh :flower:


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## Honeybee88x

SyllyPoohBear said:


> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz Rothman

What I'd personally like to take from this statement is that the act of birth itself is what creates a mother that is strong and competent no matter what sort of birth they have. The process of becoming a mother, through any method not just birth (adoption etc.) requires difficult decisions and working through hard feelings and situations for their child/children, usually starting way before they arrive. this creates a need for us to trust in ourselves that we are making the right desicions for them and find our inner strength to raise them as well as we can even when its hard.


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## cherryglitter

dizzy65 said:


> i personally think any woman that gives birth is very strong weither it be by c-section or with a epidural.. it takes a lot out of you and we all should be proud of our selfs for accomplishing it :flower: i personally had a natural childbirth in some ways i guess.. i didnt have an epidural i had 2 shots of morph.. but did the pushin part with no pain meds i was also in labour for 26.5 hours.. it take a lot out of you.. and in my own personal eyes taking an epidural personally scared the crap out of me only because i didnt like the idea of the cathetar (yes im a baby) haha.. but we all are very strong willed and very strong for going threw with carrying our childern and we should all be very proud of our selves..
> 
> i also felt that the op's second response was a bit rude tbh :flower:

i must admit, the cathetar was probably the WORST part of all of it. 
i hated that damn thing. 
i kept asking to have it out and they just wouldn't take it out for like... 24 hours. 
it made me feel sick and cringey and it really disabled the way i looked after jake! as it was on a stand and i had to carry it around with me, the bloody thing lol!

anyway... :haha:


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## dizzy65

hehe i had to have one in for like 5 min just cause i wasnt peeing when i was in labour well not properly any way and i cried and begged them not to do it yes i admit it was being a bit of a drama queen lol.. i dont no just dont like the idea of it :D


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## Boni

SyllyPoohBear said:


> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz Rothman
> 
> Just some encouragement that ALL women can birth naturally and find that inner strength. :flower:

am i wrong in thinking these are just words of encouragement for anyone who wants to read them?

I just want to go into labour without being induced!!


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## Eternal

dizzy65 said:


> i personally think any woman that gives birth is very strong weither it be by c-section or with a epidural.. it takes a lot out of you and we all should be proud of our selfs for accomplishing it :flower: i personally had a natural childbirth in some ways i guess.. i didnt have an epidural i had 2 shots of morph.. but did the pushin part with no pain meds i was also in labour for 26.5 hours.. it take a lot out of you.. and in my own personal eyes taking an epidural personally scared the crap out of me only because i didnt like the idea of the cathetar (yes im a baby) haha.. but we all are very strong willed and very strong for going threw with carrying our childern and we should all be very proud of our selves..
> 
> i also felt that the op's second response was a bit rude tbh :flower:


^WSS

BTW I Love your avatar, how cute!


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## sequeena

I had a catheter too but didn't feel it. Probably high on gas and air haha!


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## Lydiarose

I think going through a pregnancy,labor (whatever kind of labour!) and bringing up a child a strong woman . . . not the fact that she chooses to go through pain or not?!


By the way i had epidurals and i still felt pain at the end as much as any other woman would!


I was induced and my contractions were as bad at the start as they would be at the end,it was very full on so after 6 hours i decided to have pain reliief.

Why would you want to go through pain that you dont have too? :s

Personally i wouldnt want to go through hours upon hours of agony just to say,Oh i didnt have any pain relief.

And no i dont subconciously think "there right" and feel guily about it . .


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## teal

Well said Eternal. I had my heart set on a waterbirth and was gutted when I had to be transferred to the next hospital 30 minutes away. It took a long time to accept what had happened but if I hadn't transferred to that hospital my son wouldn't be here :hugs: xx


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## Maman

Im sorry op but you are unfairly belittling women who CHOOSE to have epidural or have a c-section. 

The only people who think epidural or section is failure are the women who have never had them so are in fear of the unknown. Im really proud of how my son was born, i had a very long labour, epidural and section (oh and i had the second part of my section on just gas and air, so dont tell me about pain and inner strength!!!) 

my son was born in to a serene room with no screaming, i was up and bout quicker than the 'natural' birth mum next to me, and i breastfed no problem! and as for the bond between my son and i, its stronger because i was so worried that it wouldnt be that made me try extra hard, and i am a fantastic mum- my son is healthy, happy and exceeds the standards expected by his nursery, he is speaking 2 languages and learning a third and can use a computer, knows how to make an omelette and loves dancing and singing...

so his birth had no ill effects whateoever. (oh yes, hang on, it took him longer to pass the newborn hearing test, as section babies dont experience the suction that pulls the fluid out of their ears, dont worry he passed, 3 days later!)

as for me im just as healthy as the next woman, and doing quite well considering they told me i was infertile at 19 and 24 and im about to have my second baby. My pregnancy has been complication-free.


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## Quackquack99

My point of view is that 8 hours after being cut open several layers and into a major organ, I was lifting my daughter whilst understanding how it feels to be stabbed. Now let me tell you, that's what I call inner strength.


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## lhancock90

SyllyPoohBear said:


> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the *66% of women who have epidurals*. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.

Without an epidural my body would have pushed my daughter out at 5cm, causing harm to both myself and her. Not all woman can cope with the pain naturally and whilst i applaud any that do i think its wrong to assume we all can.
I'm proud i made it that far with a back-to-back baby who wanted out then and there. Without an epidural i might've ended up with a c-section. Woman who do have c-sections must have ALOT of inner strength considering how big of an operation that can be!
I think the real test of inner strength is actually just being a mom, the hardest and most rewarding job in the world.


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## lhancock90

Maman said:


> Im sorry op but you are unfairly belittling women who CHOOSE to have epidural or have a c-section.
> 
> The only people who think epidural or section is failure are the women who have never had them so are in fear of the unknown. Im really proud of how my son was born, i had a very long labour, epidural and section (oh and i had the second part of my section on just gas and air, so dont tell me about pain and inner strength!!!)
> 
> *my son was born in to a serene room with no screaming, i was up and bout quicker than the 'natural' birth mum next to me*, and i breastfed no problem! and as for the bond between my son and i, its stronger because i was so worried that it wouldnt be that made me try extra hard, and i am a fantastic mum- my son is healthy, happy and exceeds the standards expected by his nursery, he is speaking 2 languages and learning a third and can use a computer, knows how to make an omelette and loves dancing and singing...
> 
> so his birth had no ill effects whateoever. (oh yes, hang on, it took him longer to pass the newborn hearing test, as section babies dont experience the suction that pulls the fluid out of their ears, dont worry he passed, 3 days later!)
> 
> as for me im just as healthy as the next woman, and doing quite well considering they told me i was infertile at 19 and 24 and im about to have my second baby. My pregnancy has been complication-free.

I had a mobile epidural and was in the shower half hour after id had her :thumbup: i was the quickest recovery on the ward and left the hospital exactly 3 1/2 hours later.


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## Eternal

teal said:


> Well said Eternal. I had my heart set on a waterbirth and was gutted when I had to be transferred to the next hospital 30 minutes away. It took a long time to accept what had happened but if I hadn't transferred to that hospital my son wouldn't be here :hugs: xx

:hugs: Same here hun. Its hard isnt it? But remember we ARE fantastic mothers. Its not about how you give birth, its about how you parent and what you scarifice for you baby/babies :hugs:


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## Blah11

It's just individual choice. Me choosing a natural birth isn't because I'm scared of them. Dunno why people assume natural births are all pain and screaming either. Csection or natural, all women recover differently. The mws were amazed on post natal cos I carried amelie myself to the ward.


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## Mum2b_Claire

Blah11 said:


> It's just individual choice. Me choosing a natural birth isn't because I'm scared of them. Dunno why people assume natural births are all pain and screaming either.

Exactly. 
It's sooo not as simple as you feel can feel this pain or you can block it out, there's loads of disadvantages of epidurals meaning I wouldn't choose one under normal circumstances.


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## Quackquack99

Mum2b_Claire said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> It's just individual choice. Me choosing a natural birth isn't because I'm scared of them. Dunno why people assume natural births are all pain and screaming either.
> 
> Exactly.
> It's sooo not as simple as you feel can feel this pain or you can block it out, there's loads of disadvantages of epidurals meaning I wouldn't choose one under normal circumstances.Click to expand...

But not every woman chooses to have an epidural, I was coping fine without any pain relief, I wanted no pain relief for my birth but my LO decided to go in a footling breech position.so I had a spinal block for my c section. I don't think I wanted to be cut open without any lol. I'm really envious of women who had no pain relief x


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## todteach

Had I pushed, I was told by my neurologist that I would die. My baby would have NO mother, and my husband would be a single father. I am unable to birth naturally and needed to have a c-section.


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## Blah11

Theres always going to be exceptions but more than 9/10 women probably could have a perfectly natural birth if they wanted to. Of course not everyone wants one and thats fine too :)


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## Maman

Blah11 said:


> Theres always going to be exceptions but more than 9/10 women probably could have a perfectly natural birth if they wanted to. Of course not everyone wants one and thats fine too :)

operative word; probarly.

Is there any proof to back that up? I dont think you can put numbers on something if its not definite. 

more than one in ten women have sections, and back in the day more than one in ten women died during childbirth or soon thereafter.


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## Blah11

i dont think 'back in the day' women generally died from reasons that could have been prevented with a section tbh. It was more infection, huge blood loss from haemoraging, no scans to find potential problems etc. Their babies maybe died from problems that could be fixed with a section, but not the mothers.


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## Quackquack99

Blah11 said:


> Theres always going to be exceptions but more than 9/10 women probably could have a perfectly natural birth if they wanted to. Of course not everyone wants one and thats fine too :)

I do agree with that but everyone has a different pain threshold. My mum had a breech delivery without any pain relief. My motto was if my mum could do it then so can I, but my registrar wasn't confident in delivering a footling breech and didn't want it on her 'conscience' if a cord prolapse had happened. My babies life was in her hands. But I guess in an ideal world I'm sure most women would love to be able to have a pain relief free delivery as you do have a better recovery


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## Eternal

Blah11 said:


> Theres always going to be exceptions but more than 9/10 women probably could have a perfectly natural birth if they wanted to. Of course not everyone wants one and thats fine too :)

Depends what your classing as "natural" i suppose, to me natural means vaginal, and i 100% agree that the majority (im not putting numbers on it). 

Like the majority of twins are born my section, i dont think that really needs to be the case, i totally feel my body can do it, BUT I will listen to the doctors and if there is any signs that things arnt going to go smoothly I probably will agree to section, mostly because my husband is terrified something will go wrong and we will lose one and secondly because if that did happen i wouldnt be able to forgive myself. 

My mostly I feel i can so it, I can see why not. ive had loads of people say im stupid for even wanting to do it naturally (risks to second twin can be high). I dont think I am, I am going to accept anything the recommned, like i am fairly sure ill have no option but to have an epi or spinal block, incase they need to do an emergency section. I know thats not ideal, i know it increases my risks of needed more interventions AND possibly a section but thats whats recommened and if that gives me a chance to do it naturally i will. 

I wouldnt take chances and have a home birth with twins, although i would love one in the future (if we have more, one at a time lol) i know it is possible, but i wouldnt feel comfortable taking the risk.

Most of the time the less inveterventions the better, its much better for baby not to have extra drugs and for labour to be hurried up etc. But under some circumstanes its safer for baby to have a more "medical" birth. Just my opioion.


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## Eternal

Blah11 said:


> i dont think 'back in the day' women generally died from reasons that could have been prevented with a section tbh. It was more infection, huge blood loss from haemoraging, no scans to find potential problems etc. Their babies maybe died from problems that could be fixed with a section, but not the mothers.

I agree, obviously some women or babies a section would have saved their lives, but its not as simple as just saying that, there were lots of other reasons mother and babies died, such as infection, homeorraging etc etc. Plus women and babies die now, even with sections etc, sometimes that just happens, not everything can be picked up. 

My friend has a cardiac condiction and has two young children, both by section, but a lot of people live with this condition and dont know (cardio myopathy also known as sudden adult death symdrome), sometimes labouring can cause the heart to fail in these people, its not as simple as a section saving their lives, because most wont know they have it and its more about being monitored (you can deliver naturally but have to have cardac specilists monitor labour). 

Anyway, what im saying is I agree with Blah11, its not as simple as saying people died as they didnt do sections, i mean sections arnt a new thing. Im i right in think the egyptians did them? might be wrong, should look it up. lol!


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## Eternal

It dates back to roman times, usually when a mother is close to death and a baby close to being born they would have been preformed. But modern sections where first done back in 1881.


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## Blah11

Eternal said:


> Blah11 said:
> 
> 
> Theres always going to be exceptions but more than 9/10 women probably could have a perfectly natural birth if they wanted to. Of course not everyone wants one and thats fine too :)
> 
> Depends what your classing as "natural" i suppose, to me natural means vaginal, and i 100% agree that the majority (im not putting numbers on it).
> 
> Like the majority of twins are born my section, i dont think that really needs to be the case, i totally feel my body can do it, BUT I will listen to the doctors and if there is any signs that things arnt going to go smoothly I probably will agree to section, mostly because my husband is terrified something will go wrong and we will lose one and secondly because if that did happen i wouldnt be able to forgive myself.
> 
> My mostly I feel i can so it, I can see why not. ive had loads of people say im stupid for even wanting to do it naturally (risks to second twin can be high). I dont think I am, I am going to accept anything the recommned, like i am fairly sure ill have no option but to have an epi or spinal block, incase they need to do an emergency section. I know thats not ideal, i know it increases my risks of needed more interventions AND possibly a section but thats whats recommened and if that gives me a chance to do it naturally i will.
> 
> I wouldnt take chances and have a home birth with twins, although i would love one in the future (if we have more, one at a time lol) i know it is possible, but i wouldnt feel comfortable taking the risk.
> 
> Most of the time the less inveterventions the better, its much better for baby not to have extra drugs and for labour to be hurried up etc. But under some circumstanes its safer for baby to have a more "medical" birth. Just my opioion.Click to expand...

I think women who give birth to twins are amazing let alone, vaginally :thumbup:


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## DLA

SyllyPoohBear said:


> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.

I most likely will be in the 66% who CHOOSE an epi. I'm aware my body is capable of doing it "naturally" but I don't want to and I'm lucky enough to live in a day and age where I have options. Simple as that.



> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz Rothman

I think it's a lovely quote and it will still apply to me if I have an epi or even a c section. I know the risks and am comfortable with my decision. 

What's strange is I haven't yet encountered a mom who feels the need to "encourage" epis or c-sections to moms that have made the decision to go natural but have frequently seen moms that are planning do it naturally "encourage" those who have had or plan to have epis and/or c-sections to do it naturally. Just an honest observation.


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## Mum2b_Claire

^ I don't know if it's encouraging per se, but plenty of people IRL have expressed that I'm 'mad' or whatever to not want an epidural! 
The only time I would encourage someone to think about a natural birth would be if asked for my honest opinon on what's best (all things being equal.)


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## Maman

DLA said:


> SyllyPoohBear said:
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.
> 
> I most likely will be in the 66% who CHOOSE an epi. I'm aware my body is capable of doing it "naturally" but I don't want to and I'm lucky enough to live in a day and age where I have options. Simple as that.
> 
> 
> 
> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz RothmanClick to expand...
> 
> I think it's a lovely quote and it will still apply to me if I have an epi or even a c section. I know the risks and am comfortable with my decision.
> 
> What's strange is I haven't yet encountered a mom who feels the need to "encourage" epis or c-sections to moms that have made the decision to go natural but have frequently seen moms that are planning do it naturally "encourage" those who have had or plan to have epis and/or c-sections to do it naturally. Just an honest observation.Click to expand...

agreed. it just annoys me so much when mums who have only given birth naturally bang on about section as if they know mroe than a mum whos had one, or act like its a bigger achievement to push a baby out of their vagina... 

im a better mum then many women who have 'gone natural' so the statement op made was pointless. 

if a woman who hasnt had a section decides to listen to horror stories, and base her opinion on well... numbers then its up to her, but the reality of it is section and epidural arent bad, they save lives, stop traumatic births (ever heard of a mum with ptsd because of a section?) and enable some women to have more control over the birth of their child which i think is more empowering. Unless you've had one i dont think youre educated to say wether theyre failure or not.


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## Mum2b_Claire

Maman said:


> (ever heard of a mum with ptsd because of a section?)

Yes, sorry. Just saying.


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## Simonsgirl

Seity said:


> What's wrong with not enduring unnecessary pain?
> I'll take a pass on that any day. If someone wants to be in excruciating pain, that's their choice. Same as it's mine to happily not be in any pain.
> Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.


I agree with you 110%. You don't hear about people having their appendix or gallbladder out without anaethesia/pain relief just so "they can experience it".

There seems to be a real snobbishness amongst some people who have strong beliefs about "natural" childbirth. As I mentioned before, lots of things that happen to the human body can be considered "natural", but that doesn't mean that they are healthy or contribute to our wellbeing or that of your baby. 

Women should choose the method that best works for them, I have lots of friends who have had polar opposite experiences of childbirth and I wouldn't judge them for a second.


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## Blah11

Maman said:


> DLA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SyllyPoohBear said:
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.
> 
> I most likely will be in the 66% who CHOOSE an epi. I'm aware my body is capable of doing it "naturally" but I don't want to and I'm lucky enough to live in a day and age where I have options. Simple as that.
> 
> 
> 
> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz RothmanClick to expand...
> 
> I think it's a lovely quote and it will still apply to me if I have an epi or even a c section. I know the risks and am comfortable with my decision.
> 
> What's strange is I haven't yet encountered a mom who feels the need to "encourage" epis or c-sections to moms that have made the decision to go natural but have frequently seen moms that are planning do it naturally "encourage" those who have had or plan to have epis and/or c-sections to do it naturally. Just an honest observation.Click to expand...
> 
> agreed. it just annoys me so much when mums who have only given birth naturally bang on about section as if they know mroe than a mum whos had one, or act like its a bigger achievement to push a baby out of their vagina...
> 
> im a better mum then many women who have 'gone natural' so the statement op made was pointless.
> 
> if a woman who hasnt had a section decides to listen to horror stories, and base her opinion on well... numbers then its up to her, but the reality of it is section and epidural arent bad, they save lives, stop traumatic births (ever heard of a mum with ptsd because of a section?) and enable some women to have more control over the birth of their child which i think is more empowering. Unless you've had one i dont think youre educated to say wether theyre failure or not.Click to expand...

Ive read plenty of stories from women who needed crash sections or really medicalised births with instruments and left feeling robbed of a birth experience :shrug:


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## Blah11

Simonsgirl said:


> Seity said:
> 
> 
> What's wrong with not enduring unnecessary pain?
> I'll take a pass on that any day. If someone wants to be in excruciating pain, that's their choice. Same as it's mine to happily not be in any pain.
> Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.
> 
> 
> I agree with you 110%. You don't hear about people having their appendix or gallbladder out without anaethesia/pain relief just so "they can experience it".
> 
> There seems to be a real snobbishness amongst some people who have strong beliefs about "natural" childbirth. As I mentioned before, lots of things that happen to the human body can be considered "natural", but that doesn't mean that they are healthy or contribute to our wellbeing or that of your baby.
> 
> Women should choose the method that best works for them, I have lots of friends who have had polar opposite experiences of childbirth and I wouldn't judge them for a second.Click to expand...

having your skin cut open to get a gallbladder out isnt something our body is designed to do. I wouldnt suggest a woman get a csection without anaesthetic but trying to compare a vaginal birth with no epidural with surgery is really nonsensical and irrelevant.


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## aliss

Maman said:


> DLA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SyllyPoohBear said:
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about you I am talking about the 66% of women who have epidurals. And less the 5% of women actually need a C-section. It's not my fault if you take offense to something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't have to do with you.
> 
> I most likely will be in the 66% who CHOOSE an epi. I'm aware my body is capable of doing it "naturally" but I don't want to and I'm lucky enough to live in a day and age where I have options. Simple as that.
> 
> 
> 
> "Birth is not only about making babies. It about making mothers, strong, competent, capable mothers who trust themselves and know their inner strengths." Barbara Katz RothmanClick to expand...
> 
> I think it's a lovely quote and it will still apply to me if I have an epi or even a c section. I know the risks and am comfortable with my decision.
> 
> What's strange is I haven't yet encountered a mom who feels the need to "encourage" epis or c-sections to moms that have made the decision to go natural but have frequently seen moms that are planning do it naturally "encourage" those who have had or plan to have epis and/or c-sections to do it naturally. Just an honest observation.Click to expand...
> 
> agreed. it just annoys me so much when mums who have only given birth naturally bang on about section as if they know mroe than a mum whos had one, or act like its a bigger achievement to push a baby out of their vagina...
> 
> im a better mum then many women who have 'gone natural' so the statement op made was pointless.
> 
> if a woman who hasnt had a section decides to listen to horror stories, and base her opinion on well... numbers then its up to her, but the reality of it is section and epidural arent bad, they save lives,* stop traumatic births (ever heard of a mum with ptsd because of a section?) * and enable some women to have more control over the birth of their child which i think is more empowering. Unless you've had one i dont think youre educated to say wether theyre failure or not.Click to expand...


Uhhhh yeah! Have you seen some of the girls in the home & natural birthing section?? Some of them have little tags on their signature saying "unnecessarian survivor"... a lot of the girls in home & natural birthing are there for the very reason that they felt robbed & traumatized from their hospital births with epi's, inductions, c-sections, etc.


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## Simonsgirl

having your skin cut open to get a gallbladder out isnt something our body is designed to do. I wouldnt suggest a woman get a csection without anaesthetic but trying to compare a vaginal birth with no epidural with surgery is really nonsensical and irrelevant.[/QUOTE]


I really don't agree TBH, having spent 6 weeks of my nurse training in a maternity hospital, seeing women getting grade 3 & 4 tears or having episiotomies with no local anaesthetic who required 3 layers of suturing, and those women felt every bit of those cuts or tears, both when they happened and needed to be repaired. Is your body designed to do that?? If so, I'll take the other option thanks very much!


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## Blah11

Well, yes tbh. Don't they usually put anaesthetic in to do an episiotomy anyway if it looks like its going to be a bad tear? I know most women with littlish tears dont even know it happened as crowning can be quite uncomfortable anyway. & anyway, during childbirth your body produces all sorts of amazing hormones and endorphins to help us cope with the pain. You dont get the same when you get normal surgery.


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## Verse

*laughs* If it was 100% guarenteed that it was 100% safe for me and the baby, I would *much* prefer to be completely knocked out for the birth! I have no romantic attachment to the idea of experiencing childbirth at all. But the fact is there are no such guarentees in life, and from my family's experiences this is particularly true when it comes to medical procedures. Therefore, I'm going to be going for as drug/intervention free a birth as I can get away with without endangering the baby.

As for sections, well, I have a very negative view of those as I'm wanting to get back to riding my horse as soon as possible after delivery and it seems that standard recomendations have you waiting a few weeks longer after a section than a "natural" birth ;)


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## JayDanny

Find a new thread and move on. This is getting way too heated.


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## Jaylynne

I did take the op comment as a little bit putting down to those who didn't have a natural birth... Not trying to stir the pot but just an honest observation. Maybe the wording wasn't the best. And I am going to try for a natural birth:flower: however, I will do whatever I feel is right and necessary for my baby AND for myself. If that includes getting an epidural, then I will get an epidural. If my doctor (who highly encourages vaginal births) recommends a c-section I will obviously agree if medically necessary. I won't think less of myself or less inner strength if I have modern pain blockers. I would like to enjoy seeing my baby for the first time as much as possible. I think most moms just want the best possible birthing experience for themselves and their LO.
I am actually more afraid than labor of a dr putting a hand up my cooch to do an internal, he's got big hands! Do they really put a HAND up there? Or tearing, or a catheter. Or getting my stomach sliced open.


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## Digby

Well, my hapenny's worth - Drug me up to the tits and whip that baby out like a tooth as I have no real pain tolerance and I don't buy the whole "childbirth pain is a beautiful thing". It looks like it friggin hurts and I see no reason for it being so painful (other than, you know, melon through a lemon thing.)

I will bond with my child through cuddles and kisses and monetary bribes, thankyouverymuch.

OK, a little tongue-in-cheek, just to lighten the mood.*

*But only a little bit.


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## aliss

Verse said:


> *laughs* If it was 100% guarenteed that it was 100% safe for me and the baby, I would *much* prefer to be completely knocked out for the birth! I have no romantic attachment to the idea of experiencing childbirth at all. But the fact is there are no such guarentees in life, and from my family's experiences this is particularly true when it comes to medical procedures. Therefore, I'm going to be going for as drug/intervention free a birth as I can get away with without endangering the baby.

I agree with you 100% as someone who chose interventions and my boy paid the price! Of course I'd love a pain free birth but what was 'pain free' for me (well, day 2 was) was not pain free for my boy and the complications he endured. :cry:


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## Digby

In response to the above post I just want to add that I was just trying to lighten the mood and didn't think about the implications for the baby. I know that it wasn't even slightly aimed at me but I really hoped I haven't offended or upset anyone. The post above reminded me that yes, the situation can sometimes be very grave and I didn't mean to make light of that.


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## aliss

Digby said:


> In response to the above post I just want to add that I was just trying to lighten the mood and didn't think about the implications for the baby. I know that it wasn't even slightly aimed at me but I really hoped I haven't offended or upset anyone. The post above reminded me that yes, the situation can sometimes be very grave and I didn't mean to make light of that.

Oh no offense at all, in fact your melon/lemon comment had me chuckling for a good 10 minutes!!!! :haha:


----------

