# "I can't just go to every cry..."



## hapi2bhealthy

...my friend said this about her 1 week old!! It nearly killed me. I picked him up and rocked him because I died of sadness!!


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## tokyo

She feels like this with a 1 week old?! :(


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## lozzy21

That's sad, i go to every cry, just not always straight away.


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## Rachel_C

That is very sad. I sometimes feel like tearing my hair out and take a minute to breathe before responding but my kids are walking and talking and have definite 'wants' and 'needs' but a baby that young only has needs. Sometimes you have to prioritise one child's need over the other e.g. toddler just fallen and hurt herself takes priority for a minute over a baby who wants a cuddle, but only in the very short term.


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## Larkspur

Hon, I know you're well-intentioned but do we really need threads like this in the natural parenting section? It's hard enough being a new mum without having people judge you because you're struggling.


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## Rachel_C

Larkspur said:


> Hon, I know you're well-intentioned but do we really need threads like this in the natural parenting section? It's hard enough being a new mum without having people judge you because you're struggling.

I think the natural parenting section is exactly the right place to post it actually. Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive but here? Come on!


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## Larkspur

Rachel_C said:


> Larkspur said:
> 
> 
> Hon, I know you're well-intentioned but do we really need threads like this in the natural parenting section? It's hard enough being a new mum without having people judge you because you're struggling.
> 
> I think the natural parenting section is exactly the right place to post it actually. Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive but here? Come on!Click to expand...

My understanding is that this is a section for mums who choose natural parenting methods to discuss methods / find support, not a place to tut-tut about those who choose differently. 

You wouldn't get away with a thread in the FF section about how NIP is gross or one in the BF section about feeling sorry for FF babies. 

It particularly surprises me in Natural Parenting because its a philosophy based on raising healthy, happy, compassionate children yet often compassion seems to be a bit lacking towards other adults if they don't think exactly the same way. :shrug:


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## fieryphoenix

No matter what section this is in its wrong to leave a week old infant to cry. Poor little guy :(


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## Larkspur

fieryphoenix said:


> No matter what section this is in its wrong to leave a week old infant to cry. Poor little guy :(

My point is not that it's okay to leave an infant to cry. 

It's that it's hardly our place to negatively judge another mother on the basis of one sentence of information. Maybe she's been up all night for a week, or is suffering from PPD or has been getting no help from her OH or has had it drummed into her by her mother that if you pick up a baby every time it cries you'll teach it to cry more. 

There are a lot of reasons she might have said that so what she probably needs is support, not judgment; I'm not sure the drama of stating "It nearly killed me" and "I died of sadness" is especially helpful to anyone, including the baby.


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## hapi2bhealthy

Actually, no I feel it's perfectly OK to post this here. I'm *SO . TIRED* of people getting offended at things like this!! I said literally NOTHING judgy, and if you're OK with leaving a 1 week old to cry (unless in cases of frustration/danger) then...yeh, I find that not great. 

I have been friends with this girl since childhood and I actually felt no judgement towards her, I just picked up the bubba because it hurt MY heart to hear. It was only a comment she made in passing and she is actually borrowing my hugabub wrap for him, but I was shocked that she said it so early is all. 

I have my own baggage with leaving babies to cry though!! Have done, and wish I never had, and never will again. However I'm not a "jump on every sigh" mum (I wish I could be...but it's not me).


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## Larkspur

hapi2bhealthy said:


> Actually, no I feel it's perfectly OK to post this here. I'm *SO . TIRED* of people getting offended at things like this!! I said literally NOTHING judgy, and if you're OK with leaving a 1 week old to cry (unless in cases of frustration/danger) then...yeh, I find that not great.
> 
> I have been friends with this girl since childhood and I actually felt no judgement towards her, I just picked up the bubba because it hurt MY heart to hear. It was only a comment she made in passing and she is actually borrowing my hugabub wrap for him, but I was shocked that she said it so early is all.
> 
> I have my own baggage with leaving babies to cry though!! Have done, and wish I never had, and never will again. However I'm not a "jump on every sigh" mum (I wish I could be...but it's not me).

I just don't understand why you made this thread. 

Was it so that everyone else could tut-tut about what a terrible thing it is to do to a baby and go away feeling pleased that they're much better mothers than that, or so that everyone could pat you on the back for being more compassionate than the baby's mother? :shrug:


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## hapi2bhealthy

Larkspur said:


> hapi2bhealthy said:
> 
> 
> Actually, no I feel it's perfectly OK to post this here. I'm *SO . TIRED* of people getting offended at things like this!! I said literally NOTHING judgy, and if you're OK with leaving a 1 week old to cry (unless in cases of frustration/danger) then...yeh, I find that not great.
> 
> I have been friends with this girl since childhood and I actually felt no judgement towards her, I just picked up the bubba because it hurt MY heart to hear. It was only a comment she made in passing and she is actually borrowing my hugabub wrap for him, but I was shocked that she said it so early is all.
> 
> I have my own baggage with leaving babies to cry though!! Have done, and wish I never had, and never will again. However I'm not a "jump on every sigh" mum (I wish I could be...but it's not me).
> 
> I just don't understand why you made this thread.
> 
> Was it so that everyone else could tut-tut about what a terrible thing it is to do to a baby and go away feeling pleased that they're much better mothers than that, or so that everyone could pat you on the back for being more compassionate than the baby's mother? :shrug:Click to expand...

I made it because I wanted to feel way better than everyone else, that's why. :dohh:

Because I felt sad that I had heard that. Why does anyone make any thread?? Because I don't like it that there is a prevailing culture still that new babies need to be "taught" about life and that they're not the center of the universe before they're developmentally ready. Because I'm tired of hearing terrible outdated advice that quality research has proven to be wrong over and over again being given to people that not only stresses the baby out, but often causes stress to the mother too. Because the whole notion of mother instinct seems to be put on the back burner for "teaching them they're not the center of the universe" but babies as yet have not evolved to this and still act on instinct. Because a newborn baby is not crying to manipulate, it's crying because they crave warmth, love and being close to their one and only source of life- their caregiver. 

Why did you turn this thread into an argument? If you have baggage about this then by all means express it (because I do too!!) but I think in the Natural Parenting section, it's pretty obvious why I would find this an appropriate place to post it.


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## Larkspur

hapi2bhealthy said:


> I made it because I wanted to feel way better than everyone else, that's why. :dohh:
> 
> Because I felt sad that I had heard that. Why does anyone make any thread?? Because I don't like it that there is a prevailing culture still that new babies need to be "taught" about life and that they're not the center of the universe before they're developmentally ready. Because I'm tired of hearing terrible outdated advice that quality research has proven to be wrong over and over again being given to people that not only stresses the baby out, but often causes stress to the mother too. Because the whole notion of mother instinct seems to be put on the back burner for "teaching them they're not the center of the universe" but babies as yet have not evolved to this and still act on instinct. Because a newborn baby is not crying to manipulate, it's crying because they crave warmth, love and being close to their one and only source of life- their caregiver.
> 
> Why did you turn this thread into an argument? If you have baggage about this then by all means express it (because I do too!!) but I think in the Natural Parenting section, it's pretty obvious why I would find this an appropriate place to post it.

I don't have baggage around it as far as I know. I never left my baby to cry at all when he was small and I didn't have any problem with that. My baby was super-calm and didn't cry much at all though, so I have no idea how I'd have felt if he was like some of the babies I read about on here who basically did not stop crying for the first three months straight. I'm not sure where your friend's baby fits on that spectrum. 

Now at 10.5 months if he is screeching at me because he's mad I've put him down for a few minutes while I fold laundry, I talk gently to him and tell him I can hear his frustration, but I need to get something done.

I in fact agree with a lot of your position in terms of the value of physical closeness in the early weeks, but I just don't understand why your approach is to come here and complain about it rather than say something to your friend if you think it's so crucially important that babies be held. You don't have to say something judgmental, you can just talk to her gently as a friend about whether she's struggling with the amount her baby cries or why she feels she can't respond to every cry, or offer a suggestion for some reading material about attachment parenting you found really helpful because it helps both baby and mother.

I do remember that crying or otherwise, those first few weeks of post-natal physical recovery, sleep deprivation, shock of complete life change and learning curve were HUGE. I didn't know that much about babies and my parenting approach has actually developed in many ways since I had my baby. I don't know that I would have felt real good about myself if a friend was singling out something I'd said in those first few weeks and posting it on a website for other people to shake their heads over rather than checking in with me.


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## Rachel_C

Larkspur said:


> I'm not sure the drama of stating "It nearly killed me" and "I died of sadness" is especially helpful to anyone, including the baby.

Perhaps the OP just wanted a bit of support, you know a bit of compassion towards her as an adult who was obviously quite affected by something she saw? 

I didn't see any judgement from OP - she said what her friend said, how it made her feel and what she did about it. 

Gosh, OP, you're such a terribly judgemental person ;)


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## Noelle610

I honestly don't think anyone in Baby Club would agree with letting a tiny baby fuss or cry :dohh: I think that's goes against the instincts of most mothers, not just those who practice natural parenting.

I don't believe that just because this section of the forum is titled "natural parenting" there can't be a debate. Even people with the same philosophies can have different opinions and perspectives. I babywear my 14 month old, I never avoid holding her because I'm afraid of "spoiling her", I believe children have a biological need for closeness with their mothers. I think of myself as a natural parent. But I also formula fed from 6 months and use disposable diapers. Does that mean I can't post here or don't belong here? 

Anyway, back to the question at hand. OP, your friend is probably really struggling right now. I know the initial reaction is to feel outraged, but at the same time having a baby is a HUGE life change and some peole really struggle to cope. I think it would help if you came out and said, "I know this is such a hard time, having a little person relay on you for everything! Babywearing really helped me. Do you have a slling?" or something helpful like that. I've found that people are most receptive to different ideas if they're posed empathetically.


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## tokyo

I didnt think the op was being judgey of her friend, though I did think she was shocked, as was I. At times, depending on where you live and how common AP is, you can feel very isolated choosing a natural parenting approach. Ive certainly had people stare and make comments about me using cloth nappies, breastfeeding, babywearing etc. The HVs regularly advise leaving babies to CIO and think you are a bad parents if you refuse. At times you can feel really out of step with those around you and this board is a great place to get reassurance that its ok to go against the grain and that others feel like you do. I experienced people telling me I would spoil my baby by holding her too much and responding to her cries and this board made me feel my instincts to respond to her cries were normal and should be trusted. I think the op was just sharing how she felt when she came up against a different parenting approach which went against her own instincts and made her feel uncomfortable and this is the perfect place for that because on here people generally understand how you feel, while in the real world they're likely to look at you like you have 3 heads and tell you you're wrong.

I really don't get why expressing a difference of opinion over parenting makes you judgy. We can't possibly all parent in the same way, does that mean we should never discuss parenting issues? The op never commented on her friends parenting, other than to share what she said. The rest of the post was about her own feelings and response. Its like whenever you mention breastfeeding you get slammed for judging formula feeders. Why does everything have to have sides?


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## Noelle610

I guess for me personally, having a one week old was very hard. Life changing. I don't know that a mom of a one week old even knows what her parenting style is yet, she's just trying to survive. I think it's fair to express shock and even outrage over her initial comment, but my second reaction would be to help her. If you very much believe in your parenting style and want to encourage others to try it because its what you think is best for families and society, kindness and empathy are more likely to sell them on it. Shock and outrage are a sure fire way to make then shut down and get defensive.


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## MommyJogger

Can we have a judgey parenting forum? (I don't think this was judgey, but I'm sick of people getting offended when judgements are made about their parenting.) Of course everyone is judging all the time. It's how we make decisions, it's human. So that when we want to post stuff like this that people are going to say is being insensitive and judgey, there's an obvious place to post it. Non-response to a 1 week old is inexcusable, imo. I wonder how long it's going to take society to get to the point that you can't say "leaving a baby in a dirty diaper isn't okay" without people jumping on you for "judging" and "why can't we support all moms and their parenting choices?" At what point does it go from "good judgement" to "judgey"? :shrug:


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## tokyo

Noelle610 said:


> I guess for me personally, having a one week old was very hard. Life changing. I don't know that a mom of a one week old even knows what her parenting style is yet, she's just trying to survive. I think it's fair to express shock and even outrage over her initial comment, but my second reaction would be to help her. If you very much believe in your parenting style and want to encourage others to try it because its what you think is best for families and society, kindness and empathy are more likely to sell them on it. Shock and outrage are a sure fire way to make then shut down and get defensive.

But i think thats precisely why the op mentioned it on here and NOT to her friend - she has a 1 week old baby, is only just finding her way and has a lot to deal with (didnt we all when we had a newborn?) so the last thing she would have needed was a friend criticising or suggesting she do things differently. So rather than load that on her and risk her shutting down and getting defensive the op shared her response to a difficult situation on here.


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## Rachel_C

tokyo said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> I guess for me personally, having a one week old was very hard. Life changing. I don't know that a mom of a one week old even knows what her parenting style is yet, she's just trying to survive. I think it's fair to express shock and even outrage over her initial comment, but my second reaction would be to help her. If you very much believe in your parenting style and want to encourage others to try it because its what you think is best for families and society, kindness and empathy are more likely to sell them on it. Shock and outrage are a sure fire way to make then shut down and get defensive.
> 
> But i think thats precisely why the op mentioned it on here and NOT to her friend - she has a 1 week old baby, is only just finding her way and has a lot to deal with (didnt we all when we had a newborn?) so the last thing she would have needed was a friend criticising or suggesting she do things differently. So rather than load that on her and risk her shutting down and getting defensive the op shared her response to a difficult situation on here.Click to expand...

Exactly!

The OP's post was very short and read as very shocked to me. She later went on to say how her friend is borrowing a carrier from her. That doesn't sound like a judgemental monster of a 'friend' who is only interested in bad-mouthing people. She picked up the baby so her friend didn't have to (or didn't have to ignore him/her), lent her a carrier and then came on HERE to express her shock. It's normal and natural to feel shocked sometimes and it's okay to express that. Where would the people JUDGING the OP to be judgemental prefer she expressed her shock? To her friend or in a forum where she knows there are people who are quite likely to experience similar feelings in the same situation?


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## Noelle610

Listen, I never called her judgmental. I was just saying that I thought she could offer some help/suggestions because mom friend is probably having a hard time. I'm sorry that my point isn't coming across correctly, but that is all I meant.


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## Larkspur

So I'm supposed to show compassion because the OP was apparently traumatised half to death by hearing a baby cry, but if I suggest that some compassion for say, the new mum of the crying baby might also be in order, I get reprimanded by all the sanctimommies. 

I need to step outside for a breather, the levels of martyrdom are getting a bit high in here for me.


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## Rachel_C

Noelle610 said:


> Listen, I never called her judgmental. I was just saying that I thought she could offer some help/suggestions because mom friend is probably having a hard time. I'm sorry that my point isn't coming across correctly, but that is all I meant.

That's exactly how I read what you said :)


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## heyyydayyy

Just my two cents, and I'm not trying to be catty- in fact, agree with OP that a 1 week old shouldn't be left to cry. Not cool. But I honestly think a lot of the heat came from Rachel C's post on the first page where she said:



Rachel_C said:


> I think the natural parenting section is exactly the right place to post it actually. Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive but here? Come on!

THAT implies that regular old Baby Club moms are inferior or aren't as awesome and nurturing as Natural Parenting moms...like we're all so caught up with *not* attachment-parenting that we would TOTALLY let our newborns cry without batting an eye. :dohh: I wasn't offended by OP starting this thread, but I did find Rachel C's post pretty inconsiderate.


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## tinytabby

I don't leave my baby to cry as a rule. But I think that in the first few weeks I probably would have said all kinds of things because I was so tired I was practically hallucinating. And if I really needed a pee because she'd been stuck to my breast for the past 2 hours I'd leave LO to cry for a minute.

I'd give any mother the benefit of the doubt in the first 6 weeks. It is the maddest time of all.


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## Rachel_C

heyyydayyy said:


> Just my two cents, and I'm not trying to be catty- in fact, agree with OP that a 1 week old shouldn't be left to cry. Not cool. But I honestly think a lot of the heat came from Rachel C's post on the first page where she said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel_C said:
> 
> 
> I think the natural parenting section is exactly the right place to post it actually. Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive but here? Come on!
> 
> THAT implies that regular old Baby Club moms are inferior or aren't as awesome and nurturing as Natural Parenting moms...like we're all so caught up with *not* attachment-parenting that we would TOTALLY let our newborns cry without batting an eye. :dohh: I wasn't offended by OP starting this thread, but I did find Rachel C's post pretty inconsiderate.Click to expand...

I think that interpretation is very much your personal slant on what I said. Baby club is about BABIES, it is full of all sorts of different kinds of parents with some very different view points, including those found commonly in NP. The NP section isn't just about babies, it's full of parents of older children too. The proportion of people with week old babies is pretty low compared to Baby Club so you're much less likely to upset somebody with a week old baby who is finding it difficult. That was the basis of what I wrote.


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## heyyydayyy

Rachel_C said:


> heyyydayyy said:
> 
> 
> Just my two cents, and I'm not trying to be catty- in fact, agree with OP that a 1 week old shouldn't be left to cry. Not cool. But I honestly think a lot of the heat came from Rachel C's post on the first page where she said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel_C said:
> 
> 
> I think the natural parenting section is exactly the right place to post it actually. Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive but here? Come on!
> 
> THAT implies that regular old Baby Club moms are inferior or aren't as awesome and nurturing as Natural Parenting moms...like we're all so caught up with *not* attachment-parenting that we would TOTALLY let our newborns cry without batting an eye. :dohh: I wasn't offended by OP starting this thread, but I did find Rachel C's post pretty inconsiderate.Click to expand...
> 
> I think that interpretation is very much your personal slant on what I said. Baby club is about BABIES, it is full of all sorts of different kinds of parents with some very different view points, including those found commonly in NP. The NP section isn't just about babies, it's full of parents of older children too. The proportion of people with week old babies is pretty low compared to Baby Club so you're much less likely to upset somebody with a week old baby who is finding it difficult. That was the basis of what I wrote.Click to expand...

I guess I can understand what you're saying. But you have to realize that the first thing that popped in my head is that you think that us regular old baby club moms are harsh or that we don't care enough about our babies to pick them up when they cry. Yes, that was my interpretation, because frankly, that's exactly how you worded it. "Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive." I now know that you didn't intend for it to come across the way I took it, but the person that replied directly after you took it that way too.

Also, baby club does have tons of parents who have older children too. It's usually focused on babies, but the perspectives and opinions come from people with multiple children, not just babies. Anyway, I'm not trying to start any bnb drama, because I understand what you meant. There's a lot more baby talk in baby club than there is here in NP, which makes sense on why someone could get away with that post without receiving criticism in baby club.


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## Rachel_C

heyyydayyy said:


> Rachel_C said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heyyydayyy said:
> 
> 
> Just my two cents, and I'm not trying to be catty- in fact, agree with OP that a 1 week old shouldn't be left to cry. Not cool. But I honestly think a lot of the heat came from Rachel C's post on the first page where she said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel_C said:
> 
> 
> I think the natural parenting section is exactly the right place to post it actually. Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive but here? Come on!
> 
> THAT implies that regular old Baby Club moms are inferior or aren't as awesome and nurturing as Natural Parenting moms...like we're all so caught up with *not* attachment-parenting that we would TOTALLY let our newborns cry without batting an eye. :dohh: I wasn't offended by OP starting this thread, but I did find Rachel C's post pretty inconsiderate.Click to expand...
> 
> I think that interpretation is very much your personal slant on what I said. Baby club is about BABIES, it is full of all sorts of different kinds of parents with some very different view points, including those found commonly in NP. The NP section isn't just about babies, it's full of parents of older children too. The proportion of people with week old babies is pretty low compared to Baby Club so you're much less likely to upset somebody with a week old baby who is finding it difficult. That was the basis of what I wrote.Click to expand...
> 
> I guess I can understand what you're saying. But you have to realize that the first thing that popped in my head is that you think that us regular old baby club moms are harsh or that we don't care enough about our babies to pick them up when they cry. Yes, that was my interpretation, because frankly, that's exactly how you worded it. "Perhaps in baby club it would be insensitive." I now know that you didn't intend for it to come across the way I took it, but the person that replied directly after you took it that way too.
> 
> Also, baby club does have tons of parents who have older children too. It's usually focused on babies, but the perspectives and opinions come from people with multiple children, not just babies. Anyway, I'm not trying to start any bnb drama, because I understand what you meant. There's a lot more baby talk in baby club than there is here in NP, which makes sense on why someone could get away with that post without receiving criticism in baby club.Click to expand...

Well I'm sorry you took it that way, it's certainly not what I intended. I think most of us here have spent plenty of time in baby club too, I know I did when mine were little, but NP is my BnB home, which is why I would come here (and I think the OP did too) to post something like that.


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## shorman

Personally I think it depends on how long she left the baby and why maybe she kneeded support andwas having a hard time and have i yes and I am not and don't kneed to explain myselfs but it" kills" me to here some self righteous judging comments your way NP I to be honest agree on some things but the OP did come across judging I hope the mother is ok and she finds more supportive less judging friends


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## hapi2bhealthy

OH FFS everyone needs to drink a cup of concrete and harden up, you can't say bloody *ANYTHING* these days without _*someone*_ getting offended!!!!!! :wacko:

I don't know why I even bother.

Sorry but I'm standing by my post. If you have a problem with it, don't read it. I could go on to talk about it more but _SOMEONE_ will find _SOMETHING_ to get offended by. Geez it's not like I said "She didn't pick him up and I think she's an absolutely disgusting mother because of it and I am obviously WAY better than her because I picked him up for her." I said he cried, and she said what she said, and I felt bad for the baby so I picked him up. END OF STORY. For the record, it's her second baby. 

So bored of people taking everything personally and being all "lets support everyone, everyone is amazing, blah blah blah". Half of you understood the simple, vent, one dimensional point of my original post. That's all there was to it. *GAH!!* :wacko::dohh:

Now you can all get on and whinge about how THAT post offended you because I'm done with this!!


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## Noelle610

I don't get the sense that anyone was offended by your post. Some felt it was a bit uncaring. You posted on a public forum; you're going to get differing opinions even from like-minded people.


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## felix555

hapi2bhealthy said:


> OH FFS everyone needs to drink a cup of concrete and harden up, you can't say bloody *ANYTHING* these days without _*someone*_ getting offended!!!!!! :wacko:
> 
> I don't know why I even bother.
> 
> Sorry but I'm standing by my post. If you have a problem with it, don't read it. I could go on to talk about it more but _SOMEONE_ will find _SOMETHING_ to get offended by. Geez it's not like I said "She didn't pick him up and I think she's an absolutely disgusting mother because of it and I am obviously WAY better than her because I picked him up for her." I said he cried, and she said what she said, and I felt bad for the baby so I picked him up. END OF STORY. For the record, it's her second baby.
> 
> So bored of people taking everything personally and being all "lets support everyone, everyone is amazing, blah blah blah". Half of you understood the simple, vent, one dimensional point of my original post. That's all there was to it. *GAH!!* :wacko::dohh:
> 
> Now you can all get on and whinge about how THAT post offended you because I'm done with this!!

You see I read this post and some of your other posts about those poor babies of other horrible mothers and then I read your signature ...

"I support parental choice- what works for some, does not work for others!"

And the irony just makes me giggle :dohh:


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## pinklightbulb

I had a one-week-old and a 2-year-old. The baby didn't get picked up every time he cried. Would you have felt sorry for my newborn in that case? The newborn wasn't the only kid in my house :shrug: Would it have made you sad that in order to feed my toddler, I had to allow my baby to cry for a couple of minutes? Even at 1 week old? The toddler doesn't know how old the baby is and why he can't do anything for himself any more than the baby knows why he is being left so I can tend to his brother. 

Every situation is different. Maybe your friend has a lot going on and is struggling-- lots of new mums do and I'd be more worried for her than the baby if she couldn't always tend to her only child's crying at one week PP. I would be asking if she is coping OK, that sort of thing, rather than feeling sorry for the baby-- where is the compassion for the mother?


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## hapi2bhealthy

felix555 said:


> hapi2bhealthy said:
> 
> 
> OH FFS everyone needs to drink a cup of concrete and harden up, you can't say bloody *ANYTHING* these days without _*someone*_ getting offended!!!!!! :wacko:
> 
> I don't know why I even bother.
> 
> Sorry but I'm standing by my post. If you have a problem with it, don't read it. I could go on to talk about it more but _SOMEONE_ will find _SOMETHING_ to get offended by. Geez it's not like I said "She didn't pick him up and I think she's an absolutely disgusting mother because of it and I am obviously WAY better than her because I picked him up for her." I said he cried, and she said what she said, and I felt bad for the baby so I picked him up. END OF STORY. For the record, it's her second baby.
> 
> So bored of people taking everything personally and being all "lets support everyone, everyone is amazing, blah blah blah". Half of you understood the simple, vent, one dimensional point of my original post. That's all there was to it. *GAH!!* :wacko::dohh:
> 
> Now you can all get on and whinge about how THAT post offended you because I'm done with this!!
> 
> You see I read this post and some of your other posts about those poor babies of other horrible mothers and then I read your signature ...
> 
> "I support parental choice- what works for some, does not work for others!"
> 
> And the irony just makes me giggle :dohh:Click to expand...

Yep, all my other posts that talk about poor babies of horrible mothers. If you're talking about the one where I wrote that lady drugged her kid, yeh, I'm judgy there. 

Now you're just being bitchy, this whole thread has become stupid. If I can't post this stuff in Natural parenting I don't even know why I bother anymore. Seriously. I've literally *never* said *anything* even LIKE what you're talking about,in fact I've been quite open in so many other posts about my own struggles, so i don't even know where that's coming from. 

This is just ridiculous, I'm getting attacked for saying I picked up a baby??...in the natural parenting section...why don't we all join hands and sing kum-by-yah and talk about how everyone is wonderful. Far out. Why am I even replying. Ugh. :dohh:


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## OmiOmen

pinklightbulb said:


> I had a one-week-old and a 2-year-old. The baby didn't get picked up every time he cried. Would you have felt sorry for my newborn in that case? The newborn wasn't the only kid in my house :shrug:

^WSS^

Not leaving your newborn to cry when you have one is possible, with my first I'd skip showers and meals and hold off for a wee as long as I could so he wasn't left to cry. But if you have a toddler too your newborn will likely be left to cry for a few minutes from time to time or your toddler won't get fed or go to the toilet. :shrug:


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## Noelle610

So, you're admitting you posted this so that everyone would agree with you? What's the point of that? No one here is saying that you were wrong. We all have different views on "natural parenting", but I'm pretty sure no one one this board would advocate not immediately responding to a 1 month old. Some of us are simply offering a different perspective. You didn't indicate you had thought of the possibility that your friend might be struggling or misguided, so we threw it out there. 

You are accusing us of being "sensitive", but I think sensitivity is what natural parenting is all about.


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## pinklightbulb

OmiOmen said:


> pinklightbulb said:
> 
> 
> I had a one-week-old and a 2-year-old. The baby didn't get picked up every time he cried. Would you have felt sorry for my newborn in that case? The newborn wasn't the only kid in my house :shrug:
> 
> ^WSS^
> 
> Not leaving your newborn to cry when you have one is possible, with my first I'd skip showers and meals and hold off for a wee as long as I could so he wasn't left to cry. But if you have a toddler too your newborn will likely be left to cry for a few minutes from time to time or your toddler won't get fed or go to the toilet. :shrug:Click to expand...

I remember my 2-week-old waking up at the same time as my toddler having a night terror one night... all on my own, no OH in the house.... oh MAN did I realise you can't be in two places at once, and had no idea which to comfort first. The screaming, hungry BF baby who only knows Mum and doesn't realise his brother even exists, or the screaming, terrified toddler who is jealous of his new brother on a good day, and not used to sharing Mum at all yet?

Fun times, I tell you. Fun times.

In case anyone is interested I ended up BFing Liam on Eamon's bedroom floor, with Eamon screaming in my lap and trying to hit his brother, who kept de-latching because he was getting violently assaulted, lol. 

Oh, yes, by this point, they weren't the only ones crying! I was a wreck... yes, terribly fun times I had that night!


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## Noelle610

pinklightbulb said:


> I would be asking if she is coping OK, that sort of thing, rather than feeling sorry for the baby-- where is the compassion for the mother?

Didn't you know a mom ceases to be a person after she has a baby??? :haha:

But really though, the idea that a mother is no longer important after she has a child really bothers me. Obviously mothers are adults and babies are, well, babies, so they are going to endure certain hardships while caring for a new baby - sleep deprivation, a lack of time to herself, the inability to sit and eat a full meal. But I think there's a balance of caring for a newborn and caring for yourself, which it turn makes you a better mother and better equipt to care for your newborn.


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## pinklightbulb

Wise as ever Noelle. See above for a scenario where you really do forget you are a person and not just a mother! I could have really used someone to pick up my newborn that night actually. But that aside, I would definitely be asking if Mum is coping, I know I struggled 1 week PP after a C-section with an OH who was completely disinterested. I put on a front to everyone else but really, I was in a bad place and would have loved someone to just ask, "Are you OK? How are *you*, pinklightbulb?" You don't stop being you, you just become someone else at the same time, when you are a mother. At least, that's how I feel about it.


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## Noelle610

pinklightbulb said:


> Wise as ever Noelle. See above for a scenario where you really do forget you are a person and not just a mother! I could have really used someone to pick up my newborn that night actually. But that aside, I would definitely be asking if Mum is coping, I know I struggled 1 week PP after a C-section with an OH who was completely disinterested. I put on a front to everyone else but really, I was in a bad place and would have loved someone to just ask, "Are you OK? How are *you*, pinklightbulb?" You don't stop being you, you just become someone else at the same time, when you are a mother. At least, that's how I feel about it.

Why thank you, my dear. 

But yes, I struggled very much when my child was a newborn. I didn't have a c-section, but I had a 4th degree episiotomy and could barely walk. Recovery was tough. And having to care for a helpless, needy, attached-to-mom baby after being "just you" for your entire life is like being rocketed into another dimension. It's normal, but it's also life changing and it's just a really hard adjustment. 

I would really love to see the western world a bit more community focused when it comes to families. We're all people that need love, understanding and care - mothers, fathers, children, everyone. Natural parenting can be really, really hard today because of the way our society is set up. We aren't surrounded by family who can cook and clean or numerous lactating women who can nurse our babies while we catch an hour or two of sleep. I think rather than look down on women who are struggling, the best way to advocate for natural parenting is to be caring. "How are you?" is a great place to start. Once mom feels better, less insecure and is open to suggestions, you've created an environment where you can say, "Hey, I know this is so hard. You know what really helped me? A sling. And co-sleeping in those early days is a lifesaver. Here's how to do it safely". If you really care about natural parenting the philosophies behind it, kindness and empathy for the parents are absolutely essential.


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## SMoose

Maybe you just misunderstood your friend.. like other member have posted- being that it is her second child, its a logical statement that she in fact, can't respond to every cry. Having two small children with needs is a difficult balance. 

I only have the one, but when I have my niece and nephew over, sometimes my son does end up crying for a minute while I help them wash up after the potty etc. Its life. I can understand what she meant by the statement. 

Heck, when I'm on the toilet and my son starts to cry, not able to just spring up and run to him. I hope people wouldn't find that heartbreaking. Or when I'm handling raw meats while cooking dinner etc. Maybe its just me- but to be bluntly honest- I just can't respond to every cry immediately. I think most parents that are honest with themselves would agree they have similar moments.


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## Faythe

Hugs for the OP :hugs:


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## hapi2bhealthy

Noelle610 said:


> I would really love to see the western world a bit more community focused when it comes to families. We're all people that need love, understanding and care - mothers, fathers, children, everyone. Natural parenting can be really, really hard today because of the way our society is set up. We aren't surrounded by family who can cook and clean or numerous lactating women who can nurse our babies while we catch an hour or two of sleep. I think rather than look down on women who are struggling, the best way to advocate for natural parenting is to be caring. "How are you?" is a great place to start. Once mom feels better, less insecure and is open to suggestions, you've created an environment where you can say, "Hey, I know this is so hard. You know what really helped me? A sling. And co-sleeping in those early days is a lifesaver. Here's how to do it safely". If you really care about natural parenting the philosophies behind it, kindness and empathy for the parents are absolutely essential.

OK I am glad I came back to this thread because for all my "shut up stop over-reacting" I REALLY agree with this sentiment!! Natural parenting is really hard to do without much support. 

For the record, perhaps I should have put more background to the original post:
-she was _not_ dealing with her second child, the Dad was
-I asked her many times if all was ok, if I could help, even went to do the dishes and bring the laundry in however she had done both and proudly told me she did it (totally allowed to be proud about that!!)
-I was there to give her my stretchy wrap to borrow so she _DIDN'T_ have to leave him to cry much while she was looking after 3 yr old
-It was stated to me while we were just chatting and he was in his bassinett right next to us and I had asked "Oh, do you want to tend to him?" so _at the TIME_, there was no real reason NOT to pick him up.
-Of course she will need to leave him at some point with a second baby
-I am, as well as others, _constantly_ checking up on her to see how she is coping, and she is for real doing swimmingly, not just putting on a front: she has a LOT of support
-I had PND myself, so I really know how hard it can be, with minimal support.

I mean really, she wasn't struggling (as much as anyone 'doesn't' in the first few weeks anyway), has tonnes of support, and _AT THE TIME_, was really just leaving him to cry because "Well I won't go to him at every cry". So that explains my shock at the sentiment in the first place. I doubt she does it often. But it just made me think "Is this still the prevailing thought out there?That we need to leave them to cry _just_ because they need to know x/y/z?"


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## shorman

Well can I say say then I say sorry for what I said I didn't no the full situation you sound like a great friend.


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## Noelle610

hapi2bhealthy said:


> Noelle610 said:
> 
> 
> I would really love to see the western world a bit more community focused when it comes to families. We're all people that need love, understanding and care - mothers, fathers, children, everyone. Natural parenting can be really, really hard today because of the way our society is set up. We aren't surrounded by family who can cook and clean or numerous lactating women who can nurse our babies while we catch an hour or two of sleep. I think rather than look down on women who are struggling, the best way to advocate for natural parenting is to be caring. "How are you?" is a great place to start. Once mom feels better, less insecure and is open to suggestions, you've created an environment where you can say, "Hey, I know this is so hard. You know what really helped me? A sling. And co-sleeping in those early days is a lifesaver. Here's how to do it safely". If you really care about natural parenting the philosophies behind it, kindness and empathy for the parents are absolutely essential.
> 
> OK I am glad I came back to this thread because for all my "shut up stop over-reacting" I REALLY agree with this sentiment!! Natural parenting is really hard to do without much support.
> 
> For the record, perhaps I should have put more background to the original post:
> -she was _not_ dealing with her second child, the Dad was
> -I asked her many times if all was ok, if I could help, even went to do the dishes and bring the laundry in however she had done both and proudly told me she did it (totally allowed to be proud about that!!)
> -I was there to give her my stretchy wrap to borrow so she _DIDN'T_ have to leave him to cry much while she was looking after 3 yr old
> -It was stated to me while we were just chatting and he was in his bassinett right next to us and I had asked "Oh, do you want to tend to him?" so _at the TIME_, there was no real reason NOT to pick him up.
> -Of course she will need to leave him at some point with a second baby
> -I am, as well as others, _constantly_ checking up on her to see how she is coping, and she is for real doing swimmingly, not just putting on a front: she has a LOT of support
> -I had PND myself, so I really know how hard it can be, with minimal support.
> 
> I mean really, she wasn't struggling (as much as anyone 'doesn't' in the first few weeks anyway), has tonnes of support, and _AT THE TIME_, was really just leaving him to cry because "Well I won't go to him at every cry". So that explains my shock at the sentiment in the first place. I doubt she does it often. But it just made me think "Is this still the prevailing thought out there?That we need to leave them to cry _just_ because they need to know x/y/z?"Click to expand...

Okay, I see what you're saying. Baby in basket, mom's right there with free hands, and she's not picking him up so he "learns" she can't tend to him all of the time. That sucks. Unfortunately it was a very common belief for many generations and it's probably something she learned from her own parents. It's very sad that such a belief has become so pervasive in our society. It's really good that you offered suggestions, even though she turned you down. Better to reach out and be rejected than to wonder if you could have done something.


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## aliss

(Yes, I've read the whole thread, including most recent updates)

I think at some point, most of us just don't care about or jump to a cry as quick as we would have before. You get used to it. You don't stop caring but the word doesn't stop either. Sometimes you just live & let live, and it doesn't bother as much anymore.

I personally don't think this was a big deal, and that's just me. And yes, I do all the same 'natural' stuff as others in this particular section, and I still didn't jump to my newborn even when I was 100% capable.


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## shorman

I was in the supermarket today and there was this lady who had a little girls a a what looked like less than a week old baby screaming I must say it broke my heart she didn't pick the baby up and didn't even seem bothered and whilst walking round the shop I heard this poor baby crying and all I felt was I wish I old pick it up


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## hapi2bhealthy

shorman said:


> I was in the supermarket today and there was this lady who had a little girls a a what looked like less than a week old baby screaming I must say it broke my heart she didn't pick the baby up and didn't even seem bothered and whilst walking round the shop I heard this poor baby crying and all I felt was I wish I old pick it up

Well that's just the feeling I had, and that's all I wanted to express originally lol! Anyway , this thread is getting a bit boring now haha. Let's argue over something else...how about... (Just kidding!)


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