# Chicken pox parties -



## jaybee

YEAY or NAY?

What are your thoughts?


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## Eternal

Nay, I had joked and said, oh I should take my kid, but I would t really, it seems unethical to deliberately expose your child to a disease, I mean colds are part of normal life but you wouldn't deliberately expose them. Saying that i wouldn't deliberately avoid either, after all it's best getting it as a child.


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## BabyJayne

I agree with Eternal. I wouldn't send her somewhere to specifically catch chicken pox as it just doesn't sit right. But I wouldn't go all out to avoid it either, if that makes sense.

Madeline has had chicken pox - and she was absolutely fine apart from being covered in spots. She caught it from her cousin - they had been together and he came down with it a day later. I kind of guessed she would catch it after that, and she did.


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## smelly07

A definate NO!!!! - I would not purposely expose my daughter to any illness because if anything was to happen i wouldnt forgive myself - i know chicken pox is best to get when younger but they get it when they get it with no help from me x


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## amygwen

Definitely NO! I don't understand why people would purposely give their child a disease. It's like you're tempting fate.


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## OmarsMum

No way! I never had chickenpox & I got Omar vaccinated. It freaks me out. I was exposed to chickenpox several times (have 3 brother who had it at different times) but I never had it. 

I think I have a phobia when it comes to chickenpox :blush:


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## RachA

Looks like i'm in a minority then. I would deliberately expose my two to chicken pox if the opportunity arose. It's not an illness where there are likely to be any complications. I would much much rather they had it when they were very little.


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## mummymunch

I thought it wasn't contagious as soon as the spots appeared? I probably would, its not like measles, just annoying & itchy, i think its good to get it out the way before school as it requires 2 weeks off (which is difficult to take off if you work?) i don't understand why people get vaccinated against it, but thats just my opinion. But i dont know anyone that would have 1!


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## Mrs Doddy

Why would you put yourself and your child through it unnesarraily ? 

My lo has it at the moment and its hell, she barely sleeping and miserable and itchy it's not nice for her or us seeing her writhing around.

What will be will be , if they happen to catch up then fine but if they don't then that's fine too


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## mummyof3babas

no way!!! what if complications occured?? i think its pretty sick tbh and not normal,,, shouldnt be allowed!


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## vaniilla

Big NAY here too. We're getting him vaccinated against it next year.


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## RachA

Mrs Doddy said:


> Why would you put yourself and your child through it unnesarraily ?
> 
> My lo has it at the moment and its hell, she barely sleeping and miserable and itchy it's not nice for her or us seeing her writhing around.
> 
> What will be will be , if they happen to catch up then fine but if they don't then that's fine too



There are more likely to be complications the older they are when they have it and also the younger they are the easier they actually find it to deal with. My two had it last year just before and after christmas. My eldest was 4 at the time and dealt with it ok. My youngest was 2 and 2 months and tbh she didn't even notice that she had it. If she was to have it now she'd be a nightmare. Unless you are immune that you will get it at some point. Getting it as young as possible is best.


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## MrsT&Ben

No way! 
I'm waiting for my lo to catch it, there has been a few out breaks at his nursery but so far he hasn't caught it. I have no idea what I'm going to do with regard to work when he does catch it. But the thought of purposely going somewhere to catch it just doesn't seem right to me :(


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## Mrs Doddy

I've had two days of and work have kindly said they will pay me, though if its still going on next week then I don't know what I will do - h may have to have a few days off


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## peanut56

I definitely wouldn't...my daughter is vaccinated anyway. 
It was popular back in the day, though. Not necessarily "parties" exactly, but when kids would catch it, a lot of the neighbourhood Moms (mine included!) would send their kids over to hang out with the chicken pox kids. That's how I got it when I was 8! There was no vaccination for it back then though. 
There is something to be said about having it young though. My friend's mother caught it when she was in her 40's and actually almost died from it.


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## mummymunch

Isnt it more dangerous if you get it when you're older, especially if pregnant? So i would rather emily have it young so she wont really remember it and it wont harm her health later on


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## mummyof3babas

agree with this^^ but i couldnt purposly expose my kids to it x


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## Vicyi

I didnt even know you COULD get vaccinated! :dohh: My DD caught it from nursery and my DS caught it from my DD. I dont know if i'd deliberately get them to play with someone who had it but i'd rather them get it young and pref at the same time!


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## upsy daisy1

my lo also has the vaccanation as its a routine thing here but i guess you could also choose not to have it. but no i wouldnt expose her to it on purpose. although i know she is better catching it young. i think if she saw herself with spots or scabs she would cover herself in plasters lol. shes very big on plasters for any little scratch lol:dohh:. my oh hasnt had chicken pox so im a little worried if she does catch it!!!


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## LuckyYem

I personally wouldn't although in saying that dd1 was around my step-nephew before we knew he had it, she didn't catch it though. A woman who I used to work with son is deaf as a result of complications from chicken pox, he was around 18mths when he caught it.


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## mommyof3co

I would definitely do it. Here everyone gets vaccinated (we choose not to) and 'wild' chicken pox are actually pretty rare now so the chances of them getting exposed naturally are quite low. The older they get the more dangerous it could be but I would much rather them have natural immunity. So if I had the chance, yes I would expose all 4 of my boys.


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## Seity

Nay, I got my son vaccinated. If you want to protect your child from the chicken pox enough to consider exposing them to it, you might as well get them vaccinated and save them the suffering.


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## hayz_baby

Can I ask (on mobile site so can't see) those who fat vaccinated r u from the uk?
The uk doesn't routinely vaccinate against chicken pox and most people here have a natural immunity as they have had it at least once in their life 
I think if my son was starting to get old I would whilst still at a relatively young age


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## vaniilla

I'm from the UK, we'll be doing the vaccine privately. They have considered doing it routine here but decided it would be too expensive which is a shame but won't stop us from getting lo done.


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## isil

My LO had chicken pox when he was 3 (just under maybe) and it didn't bother him at all. Obviously there will always be rare cases where there are problems but I understand that it's worse as you get older...so if my LO was going through primary school I probably would consider some how exposing him to it. Or rather, I wouldn't keep him away from preorganised play dates just because of it, I think.


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## bump2be

We got our son vaccinated. I remember getting Chicken Pox as a kid and it was horrible. I'd much rather have my child vaccinated than put them through the illness. Where I am the chicken pox vaccine is part of the vaccine list covered by the government health care. Not sure it's provided by the NHS, but it should be!!


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## eddjanuary10

No I wouldn't. Ihsan had the chicken pox earlier this year & I'm glad he had it mild with just a few spots & a bit of a temp for a couple of days, but you never know how these things are going to turn out so I wouldn't deliberately risk it.


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## hattiehippo

I wouldn't on purpose.

Tom had it at 20 months after it was going round at nursery. The 1st 2 days he just had spots and was a bit quiet but otherwise fine. The following 3 days he was so poorly and it was horrible seeing him like that. He couldn't eat because his mouth and tongue was covered in spots and basically lived on milk for those days. He was covered in spots from head to toe and a couple on his scalp and face got infected and took ages to heal. He has a big scar on the side of his face from one of these.

Some kids do get it mildly but others are really poorly. The only possible advantage to having it is to hopefully not then have it when you're older. But you can have chicken pox more than once as well as then go onto develop shingles.


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## OmarsMum

It's done privately here. Government clinics have the vaccine but it's not free


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## Natasha2605

No, the idea disgusts me. Summer took chicken pox horrendously and I wouldn't wish it on anyone!


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## Lu28

I absolutely would. The younger they get it, the easier it is on them so I'd rather she got it as young as possible. It's not a dangerous illness when they're young especially so I can't for the life of me understand why people would take the risk of vaccinating against it, then again I think vaccinating against flu is crazy for the vast majority of the population.

Aisling has been around a good few kids now who've had it but she seems to have some kind of immunity to it and just isn't catching it, I just hope she doesn't get it when she's older and it's harder for her.


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## BabyJayne

mummymunch said:


> *I thought it wasn't contagious as soon as the spots appeared*? I probably would, its not like measles, just annoying & itchy, i think its good to get it out the way before school as it requires 2 weeks off (which is difficult to take off if you work?) i don't understand why people get vaccinated against it, but thats just my opinion. But i dont know anyone that would have 1!

It's contagious before the spots come out and then until all the spots are scabbed over :flower:


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## Eternal

How do you go about getting it done privately in the uk?


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## meldmac

Sure the complications are rare in young children BUT they do happen and why would you purposely chance them having them? I actually asked my doctor about this and he did say it's rare they have complications when young but he had a child last year that had serious complications from it and the little boy was only 2 and ended up in the hospital from it. So while I agree serious complications are rare I would never chance having my child be that 1% that do get serious complications.


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## Eternal

meldmac said:


> Sure the complications are rare in young children BUT they do happen and why would you purposely chance them having them? I actually asked my doctor about this and he did say it's rare they have complications when young but he had a child last year that had serious complications from it and the little boy was only 2 and ended up in the hospital from it. So while I agree serious complications are rare I would never chance having my child be that 1% that do get serious complications.

Totally agree. At the end of the day it's still a disease, mild yes, but it can have complications and even if it doesn't some kids have a horrible time of it, I would feel awful if my son was ill and crying and I knew I intentionally exposed him. 

But as I said I wouldn't avoid, and I would prefer for them to have it young, but ill leave it up to chance, or find out more about the vaccine.


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## sophxx

No I think it's awful to do that. Were thinking o paying for the injection I had it school age and only had 4 spots


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## lindseymw

I would. I'd rather they get it young.

My BIL got it as an adult & was hospitalised.


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## shelx

Uh oh this is one of 'those' topics on here lol.


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## _Vicky_

I personally am more put off giving more immunisations than catching a harmless childhood disease. I am not anti immunisation btw the boys have had all the standard jabs but we don't vaccinate against flu or anything additional if that makes sense. I think the UK and USA hav very different attitudes to vaccinations don't you?

The boys had it when they were just turned two and both sailed through and were done in a week the worst bit wAs Sam got loads in his head and the cream was hard to get in there! BUT my friends little girls were given sedatives as they were so bad they weren't sleeping or eating :-( 

I am in two minds about pox parties but thankfully it's a decision I never have to make x


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## _Vicky_

shelx said:


> Uh oh this is one of 'those' topics on here lol.

Lol quick grab your bullet proof vest and hide hehehe


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## _Vicky_

Eternal said:


> How do you go about getting it done privately in the uk?

I'd phone your GP sometimes they can do them and charge you x


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## suzib76

I wouldn't. All 3 of mine have had them naturally. What I don't understand about this exposing party thing is if you have deliberately exposed your child do you then keep them isolated just in case spots paper or do they go out and about as usual potentially exposing to others who chicken pox is more dangerous

I really don't see the point in trying to make your child unwell, for any reason? There isn't another illness /virus / disease we could even consider doing those with so why chicken pox


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## vaniilla

Eternal said:


> How do you go about getting it done privately in the uk?

We found a place by googling "private chicken pox vaccine & our area" and the place came up. 

This place looks near you, they do the vaccine for £75 and two are given over a minimum of 6 weeks. https://theindependentgeneralpractice.co.uk/chicken pox vaccine.html as somebody suggested it might be worth asking your gp and they can suggest places or offer to do it themselves. :flower:


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## Kians_Mummy

I don't know if this has alerady been posted but I heard that you can get arrested & its classed as child abuse to purposely to inflict illness on a child?


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## DianaB

Definitely no, chicken pox leads to shingles and as easy as chicken pox may be to deal with shingles is hell. My lo caught chicken pox at 3 months old and at 7 months got shingles, they bothered her so much they're suposed to be very painful but there was nothing I could do it broke my heart to watch her with.


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## freckleonear

I have deliberately exposed my children to chicken pox twice... they didn't catch it though. In the UK, if your child goes to school then it is almost inevitable that they will catch it at some point. My children don't go to school, so I really want to take every opportunity to make sure they catch it young. It's much more serious if they catch it as an adult.


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## My_First

No it's not illegal to have pox parties but is illegal to send a pox package as its a live virus through the post.


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## louandivy

Hmmmmmmm, if I had a friend whose LO had chicken pox I think I possibly would want to expose Ivy to it tbh - chicken pox is way way way more serious when you're an adult and I know a few people who still have to worry about catching it because they never had it as a child. I think Ivy has actually already had it though, very mildly.


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## RachA

My OH has never had it and it worries me bacause of the potential complications. Thankfully he has a really good GP and when my two got it he had a chat with the GP who said that the minute he started with any spots he had to get down to the surgery or hospital so they could give him some medication for it. 
The longer it took for lo's to get it the worse it would of been for oh if he had got it.


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## HellBunny

Nope! I ended up in hospital with Chickenpox in july (i had the MMR that week also) because some inconsiderate eejit took her kid to wacky warehouse with newly fresh chickenpox. I was ill for weeks and needed to stay in hospital for 3 days with IV drips/filagrastim injections to get me better.

Having said that, my kids both had it (youngest 7 weeks, eldest 2 years) and they were quite ok with it, unwell of course but recovered fine, just off their appetite abit understandably.


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## Broodypants

I would definitely expose Erin to it if she hadn't got it by a certain age, it's far easier for them to have it when they are young. My husband caught it when he was 18 and was seriously ill from it.


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## PepsiChic

Nay, I wouldnt, it seems a little inhumane to deliberatly expose a young child to a disease.

My son has been vaccinated against it.

In the UK the vaccine (its called the Varicella) (sp?) is not routinely available, but you can pay for it through your doctor. In the US its ofered as part of the normal routine vaccinations.

When I immigrated from the UK to the US, I HAD to be vaccinated for varicella to be allowed my visa. It was a legal requirement to immigrate (one of many). 

I would much rather my child be vaccinated in a quick 2 second sting of a needle during his other vaccines, then spend 2 weeks in agony from catching it.


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## rosie272

Just spoke to my older sister about this and she said it was quite common in the 80's when my niece and nephew were toddlers. She took them both to a 'chicken pox party' as they didn't go to nursery and they both caught it at 2 & 3 years old. She said she didn't feel bad for doing it she just wanted to 'get it over and done with'! I was a bit shocked as I never really knew people did this but I suppose I can see the logic in it. She's a nurse (as were most of her friends) and said she doesn't find it dangerous or irresponsible at all. Charlie has had it now as have 99% of the kids in nursery so I won't ever have to make the choice of going to a 'pox party' or not, don't know how I'd feel about 'making' him catch it :/


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## RileysMummy

No I wouldn't purposefully expose her to it, I just couldn't. They'll be plenty of oppurtunities once she starts nursery i'm sure.
x


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## louandivy

I think 'inhumane' is pretty extreme! People don't deliberately expose their kids to chicken pox because they enjoy seeing them ill, I think wanting to expose your child to a mild illness that becomes
Progressively more dangerous with age is valid, especially as vaccinations are not routine here.


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## PepsiChic

louandivy said:


> I think 'inhumane' is pretty extreme! People don't deliberately expose their kids to chicken pox because they enjoy seeing them ill, I think wanting to expose your child to a mild illness that becomes
> Progressively more dangerous with age is valid, especially as vaccinations are not routine here.

I dont think its extreme....I think purposely exposing your child to any disease is not a risk worth taking. 

most of the time, yes chicken pox does not have serious complications, but it can, and god forbid if that ever happens to someone who intentially put their child in that situation. :nope:


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## alicecooper

No don't agree with chicken pox parties

All three of my kids caught chicken pox in October. It wasn't fun at all. Although I realise it's supposedly worse the older they get, for my three that didn't quite fit. My 3 year old got it the worst, my 7 year old got it the second worst, and my 5 year old barely had it at all - just a tiny bit. 

I know it's worse as an adult though, so they say, but still I wouldn't have deliberately exposed my kids to a disease. As my 3 year old got it much worse than my 5 year old, I can't see the age thing having much to do with it.


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## XcupcakeX

Absolutely no way..I could never purposely expose her to something in the hope she catches it, it seems so cruel. Obviously she will one day and she has to, but I'll wait till its her time.


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## suzib76

RachA said:


> My OH has never had it and it worries me bacause of the potential complications. Thankfully he has a really good GP and when my two got it he had a chat with the GP who said that the minute he started with any spots he had to get down to the surgery or hospital so they could give him some medication for it.
> The longer it took for lo's to get it the worse it would of been for oh if he had got it.

I sort of understand, if your oh has health problems that mean exposure to chicken pox would need medication necessary then I kind of see why you would be worried and want to get it out of the way. But at the same time the risk is everywhere as by the time anyone knows they or their child has it, they have already been out and about and contagious so he could have got it at any time

What I didn't know was that the older the child the higher the risk to vulnerable adults, but even still, I would rather send my dh to catch it first hand from whoever already had it, rather then sending the kids to get it and him get from them


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## Lu28

PepsiChic said:


> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> I think 'inhumane' is pretty extreme! People don't deliberately expose their kids to chicken pox because they enjoy seeing them ill, I think wanting to expose your child to a mild illness that becomes
> Progressively more dangerous with age is valid, especially as vaccinations are not routine here.
> 
> I dont think its extreme....I think purposely exposing your child to any disease is not a risk worth taking.
> 
> *most of the time, yes chicken pox does not have serious complications, but it can, and god forbid if that ever happens to someone who intentially put their child in that situation. *Click to expand...

The reasoning for me anyway is that it's so much more likely to be mild as a younger child and all of those complications get increasingly more likely to happen the older the child is when they catch it. Anyone I've spoken to who would be open to deliberately exposing their child is doing it in the hope of their child having it younger and therefore it being mild and avoiding all of those complications. I'm not doing without giving a thought to the complications or disregarding them - I'd do it actively because I want to avoid those complications and the way to do that is for her to get it when she's younger.


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## ~RedLily~

No I wouldn't. LO was so ill with chicken pox, she was covered head to toe in spots including in her mouth,throat,ears, nose and around her eyes. She had a terrible fever and a lot her hair ended up falling out. I would have felt absolutely awful if I had purposely caused that.


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## PepsiChic

Lu28 said:


> PepsiChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> I think 'inhumane' is pretty extreme! People don't deliberately expose their kids to chicken pox because they enjoy seeing them ill, I think wanting to expose your child to a mild illness that becomes
> Progressively more dangerous with age is valid, especially as vaccinations are not routine here.
> 
> I dont think its extreme....I think purposely exposing your child to any disease is not a risk worth taking.
> 
> *most of the time, yes chicken pox does not have serious complications, but it can, and god forbid if that ever happens to someone who intentially put their child in that situation. *Click to expand...
> 
> The reasoning for me anyway is that it's so much more likely to be mild as a younger child and all of those complications get increasingly more likely to happen the older the child is when they catch it. Anyone I've spoken to who would be open to deliberately exposing their child is doing it in the hope of their child having it younger and therefore it being mild and avoiding all of those complications. I'm not doing without giving a thought to the complications or disregarding them - I'd do it actively because I want to avoid those complications and the way to do that is for her to get it when she's younger.Click to expand...

then instead of exposing her to it, why dont you pay for the vaccine?

I didnt catch chicken pox as a kid, hence the vaccine requirement I had to have as an adult to immigrate. If I was still living in the UK Id pay the $20 and get my child vaccinated instead of purposely exposing them to it.


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## Eternal

_Vicky_ said:


> I personally am more put off giving more immunisations than catching a harmless childhood disease. I am not anti immunisation btw the boys have had all the standard jabs but we don't vaccinate against flu or anything additional if that makes sense. I think the UK and USA hav very different attitudes to vaccinations don't you?
> 
> The boys had it when they were just turned two and both sailed through and were done in a week the worst bit wAs Sam got loads in his head and the cream was hard to get in there! BUT my friends little girls were given sedatives as they were so bad they weren't sleeping or eating :-(
> 
> I am in two minds about pox parties but thankfully it's a decision I never have to make x

I agree, and chicken pox can be mild, but I am imagining twins with chicken pox and the vaccine sounds like a good option. Lol. I agree, I don't vaccinate again flu, but if it saves the threevofbhem all getting it together :wacko: I may consider :haha:


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## Eternal

vaniilla said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> How do you go about getting it done privately in the uk?
> 
> We found a place by googling "private chicken pox vaccine & our area" and the place came up.
> 
> This place looks near you, they do the vaccine for £75 and two are given over a minimum of 6 weeks. https://theindependentgeneralpractice.co.uk/chicken pox vaccine.html as somebody suggested it might be worth asking your gp and they can suggest places or offer to do it themselves. :flower:Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, it says around 100 die every year in the USA from complications of Chen pox! That is extremely low odds, but shows there is a risk.


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## Cattia

I don't think I would purposely expose my children to it, just because I would always have it in the back of my mind that they might have complications from it and I would somehow feel responsible if I had purposefully exposed them to it. I know that logically doesn't make much sense! Two of my friends have had their kids vaccinated because of living overseas and both their children have still caught chicken pox. One of my friends had all three of her children vaccinated and all three of them still caught it so I probably wouldn't bother with the vaccine.


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## HellBunny

my LO had it bad.. 8 weeks old
 



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## Eternal

HellBunny said:


> my LO had it bad.. 8 weeks old

Awwww poor baby, it's heart breaking poor thing, that's the point, yes it's normal but it still pulls at the heart strings when you baby is sick.


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## HellBunny

It was awful, but saying that he was fine (except one night where he must of been itchy) i was very ill with it as an adult so i can understand both sides if that makes sense?! Really hope its just the once we all get it lol, don't fancy all that itching again! xx


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## HellBunny

I think i kept crying feeling sorry for him :( lol


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## xprincessx

I think it is horrible.

While I agree it is best children get chicken pox early I think it is horrendous to purposely give them to your child. I could never willingly give my son an illness whether I feel it would be "best" for him or not...


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## xprincessx

Besides I don't mean to frighten anybody but chicken pox CAN and HAS killed children who have bad immunity. My immune system is crap and I was poorly for 2 whole weeks when I was 7 and got it, if I was a toddler I WOULD HAVE died..


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## moomoo

I wouldnt no... But I also wouldn't get a vaccine either :shrug: both of mine have had it, and although pickled, and poorly for a few days I'd rather it then than any older x


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## Lu28

PepsiChic said:


> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PepsiChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> I think 'inhumane' is pretty extreme! People don't deliberately expose their kids to chicken pox because they enjoy seeing them ill, I think wanting to expose your child to a mild illness that becomes
> Progressively more dangerous with age is valid, especially as vaccinations are not routine here.
> 
> I dont think its extreme....I think purposely exposing your child to any disease is not a risk worth taking.
> 
> *most of the time, yes chicken pox does not have serious complications, but it can, and god forbid if that ever happens to someone who intentially put their child in that situation. *Click to expand...
> 
> The reasoning for me anyway is that it's so much more likely to be mild as a younger child and all of those complications get increasingly more likely to happen the older the child is when they catch it. Anyone I've spoken to who would be open to deliberately exposing their child is doing it in the hope of their child having it younger and therefore it being mild and avoiding all of those complications. I'm not doing without giving a thought to the complications or disregarding them - I'd do it actively because I want to avoid those complications and the way to do that is for her to get it when she's younger.Click to expand...
> 
> then instead of exposing her to it, why dont you pay for the vaccine?
> 
> I didnt catch chicken pox as a kid, hence the vaccine requirement I had to have as an adult to immigrate. If I was still living in the UK Id pay the $20 and get my child vaccinated instead of purposely exposing them to it.Click to expand...

It's not a case of being too cheap to vaccinate at all. I think vaccines in themselves carry a degree of risk and would only vaccinate against what I feel is absolutely essential (to me, I know some feel no vaccine is essential and I completely respect that). That's why I also wouldn't consider vaccinating against flu except in very limited circumstances. I don't believe that putting something so unnatural into a child's body is a good plan when the vast majority of children, if they catch it while they're young, won't have any serious complications from it.


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## x__amour

Never. You never truly know just how your LO will react to diseases. My LO is vaccinated anyways.


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## PepsiChic

Lu28 said:


> PepsiChic said:
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> Lu28 said:
> 
> 
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> PepsiChic said:
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> 
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> louandivy said:
> 
> 
> I think 'inhumane' is pretty extreme! People don't deliberately expose their kids to chicken pox because they enjoy seeing them ill, I think wanting to expose your child to a mild illness that becomes
> Progressively more dangerous with age is valid, especially as vaccinations are not routine here.
> 
> I dont think its extreme....I think purposely exposing your child to any disease is not a risk worth taking.
> 
> *most of the time, yes chicken pox does not have serious complications, but it can, and god forbid if that ever happens to someone who intentially put their child in that situation. *Click to expand...
> 
> The reasoning for me anyway is that it's so much more likely to be mild as a younger child and all of those complications get increasingly more likely to happen the older the child is when they catch it. Anyone I've spoken to who would be open to deliberately exposing their child is doing it in the hope of their child having it younger and therefore it being mild and avoiding all of those complications. I'm not doing without giving a thought to the complications or disregarding them - I'd do it actively because I want to avoid those complications and the way to do that is for her to get it when she's younger.Click to expand...
> 
> then instead of exposing her to it, why dont you pay for the vaccine?
> 
> I didnt catch chicken pox as a kid, hence the vaccine requirement I had to have as an adult to immigrate. If I was still living in the UK Id pay the $20 and get my child vaccinated instead of purposely exposing them to it.Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a case of being too cheap to vaccinate at all. I think vaccines in themselves carry a degree of risk and would only vaccinate against what I feel is absolutely essential (to me, I know some feel no vaccine is essential and I completely respect that). That's why I also wouldn't consider vaccinating against flu except in very limited circumstances. I don't believe that putting something so unnatural into a child's body is a good plan when the vast majority of children, if they catch it while they're young, won't have any serious complications from it.Click to expand...

I didnt say it was a case of being too cheap, I just dont understand that rather then get your childs immunity to it via a mild vaccine with limited side effects, somone would put them in a situation to TRY and make them catch the actual disease with some pretty nasty side effects...:shrug:

These links are from the Center Of Disease Control and Prevention 

Basic info:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/default.htm

Chickenpox facts:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/fs-parents.html


----------



## mommyof3co

Some people don't WANT to give their child a vaccine. And the vaccine for it is live so technically you are exposing them to it when you vaccinate and there is a chance of them getting chicken pox from the vaccine and while yes most cases are very mild if that happens they aren't all...just like when you get the actual disease from being exposed to it in another way. The vaccine has risks just like chicken pox so to say just give them the vaccine and claim exposing them is inhumane is just ridiculous. The chicken pox vaccine is a fairly new vaccine and of course isn't 100% effective. It's also being linked with outbreaks of shingles which can be dangerous as well. I'd prefer my kids to have natural immunity to it. Yeah, sure, there is a risk if we expose them but there is also a risk by giving the vaccine, you are taking your chances either way. Also, keep in mind since the chicken pox vaccine is live it can shed and after your child gets it they have a chance of giving chicken pox to others for a few days.


----------



## CMarie

I would definitely expose my LO if he didn't catch it on his own by a certain age. Like Mommof3 said, some of us don't want to vaccinate our kiddos and I'm baffled by the fact that so many people assume that just because you get the vaccine means you're fully protected from chicken pox :wacko: The vaccine isn't 100% effective, even doctors will tell you that


----------



## lindseymw

xprincessx said:


> Besides I don't mean to frighten anybody but chicken pox CAN and HAS killed children who have bad immunity. My immune system is crap and I was poorly for 2 whole weeks when I was 7 and got it, if I was a toddler I WOULD HAVE died..

If you have a poor immunity system, other medical conditions etc then they wouldn't offer you the vaccine with it being a live one.

With regards to the 'scare mongering,' yes of course it may cause complications/deaths. But let me put this into perspective. In the uk, the average amount of deaths per year through chicken pox is 25, around 80% of which are adults. Now when you think of around 300,000 cases each year, those odds are minute. In fact, you have a greater chance of your child having seizures in response to the vaccine (around 1 in 1200). 

As pp have said, with the vaccine being live, you are actually exposing them to a form of chicken pox. Some children, it will turn into full blown chicken pox, some it won't in exactly the same way of exposing your child to actual chicken pox. Some children get it worse than others.


----------



## Lu28

mommyof3co said:


> Some people don't WANT to give their child a vaccine. And the vaccine for it is live so technically you are exposing them to it when you vaccinate and there is a chance of them getting chicken pox from the vaccine and while yes most cases are very mild if that happens they aren't all...just like when you get the actual disease from being exposed to it in another way. The vaccine has risks just like chicken pox so to say just give them the vaccine and claim exposing them is inhumane is just ridiculous. The chicken pox vaccine is a fairly new vaccine and of course isn't 100% effective. It's also being linked with outbreaks of shingles which can be dangerous as well. I'd prefer my kids to have natural immunity to it. Yeah, sure, there is a risk if we expose them but there is also a risk by giving the vaccine, you are taking your chances either way. Also, keep in mind since the chicken pox vaccine is live it can shed and after your child gets it they have a chance of giving chicken pox to others for a few days.

I was hoping you might come along to explain the vaccine situation more effectively than I could!


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## LittleBoo

There is absolutely no way in hell I'd have them vaccinated against chicken pox!

If I lived in an area where for some reason there's a high uptake of the vaccine, then yes I'd expose them when possible. As it stands, I'm in the UK, and know of no-one who's had this vaccine, so the chances are they'll catch it young, lifelong immunity yada yada.


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## Lina

My two teenage brothers had chicken pox recently and they were very ill and still bear the scars, it is why I didn't visit my mum for a good 6 months as my LO was very young. My sisters and I had chicken pox much younger, around 2-7yrs and it really wasn't bad. We had our own little party as we were quarantined in our room. Whilst I would never inflict something deliberately I would rather my LO had it young, also exposure doesn't necessarily mean they will get it. My mother never had it and she was pregnant at the time too.


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## Eternal

CMarie said:


> I would definitely expose my LO if he didn't catch it on his own by a certain age. Like Mommof3 said, some of us don't want to vaccinate our kiddos and I'm baffled by the fact that so many people assume that just because you get the vaccine means you're fully protected from chicken pox :wacko: The vaccine isn't 100% effective, even doctors will tell you that

No vaccine is, and it's insulting that you speak to people like that, using a wacko smilie! As a nurse and educated person I know the risks. This wasn't a thread about the pros and cons of vaccinated, I simply asked for more information so I could view all the options and make and an informed decision because I certainly am not a wacko! 

As for that point it's very possible to get chicken pox more than once, and I know of several people who have. So that isn't fool proof ether and " even a doctor would tell you that"! 

Children do die from chicken pox, however rare, and although chicken pox parties were common at one time, surely we have become more educated since then. 


Parents should not intentionally expose children to chickenpox. It is not safer for children to have the infection when they are younger than when they are older. Even young children can have serious (though rare) complications from the infection, including pneumonia or encephalitis. And it is not possible to know which children will develop complications.

https://www.emedicinehealth.com/chickenpox_varicella-health/page7_em.htm


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## freckleonear

The UK Health Protection Agency is strongly against routine use of the chickenpox vaccine. People who have had chickenpox are less likely to have shingles if they are exposed to the virus occasionally (e.g. through children) because this exposure acts as an immunity booster. If chickenpox vaccination became routine in the UK, it is estimated that cases of shingles amongst the elderly would increase by at least 20%. Shingles already causes more than 60 deaths per year.

Chickenpox causes serious complications in less than 1 in 10,000 children, yet 81% of chickenpox deaths are adults. There are usually less than 20 deaths from chickenpox per year, including approximately 4 children. To put that into perspective, there were over 600 deaths from flu during the winter of 2010/2011. 10% of pregnant women who catch chickenpox develop pneumonia. There is absolutely no doubt that chickenpox is much more dangerous for adults than it is for children.

Ethically, it may seem abhorent to deliberately expose children to a disease. Statistically, it is much safer for everyone if they catch it young. Of course it's tragic when a child does die from complications, but it's extremely rare. Vaccinating against chickenpox or not catching it during childhood is much more risky.


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## HellBunny

xprincessx said:


> Besides I don't mean to frighten anybody but chicken pox CAN and HAS killed children who have bad immunity. My immune system is crap and I was poorly for 2 whole weeks when I was 7 and got it, if I was a toddler I WOULD HAVE died..

I nearly died too (i'm 20 and had it a few months ago) ended up in hospital for a few days because my immune system just couldn't handle it


----------



## CMarie

Eternal said:


> CMarie said:
> 
> 
> I would definitely expose my LO if he didn't catch it on his own by a certain age. Like Mommof3 said, some of us don't want to vaccinate our kiddos and I'm baffled by the fact that so many people assume that just because you get the vaccine means you're fully protected from chicken pox :wacko: The vaccine isn't 100% effective, even doctors will tell you that
> 
> No vaccine is, and it's insulting that you speak to people like that, using a wacko smilie! As a nurse and educated person I know the risks. This wasn't a thread about the pros and cons of vaccinated, I simply asked for more information so I could view all the options and make and an informed decision because I certainly am not a wacko!
> 
> As for that point it's very possible to get chicken pox more than once, and I know of several people who have. So that isn't fool proof ether and " even a doctor would tell you that"!
> 
> Children do die from chicken pox, however rare, and although chicken pox parties were common at one time, surely we have become more educated since then.
> 
> 
> *Parents should not intentionally expose children to chickenpox.* It is not safer for children to have the infection when they are younger than when they are older. Even young children can have serious (though rare) complications from the infection, including pneumonia or encephalitis. And it is not possible to know which children will develop complications.
> 
> https://www.emedicinehealth.com/chickenpox_varicella-health/page7_em.htmClick to expand...

I'm sorry, but that's just rude . . just because you don't want your kids exposed to it, doesn't mean the rest of us "shouldn't" and I've heard multiple times from doctors, even my grandmother who's been a nurse for 30 years say that it is much better for a child to get this infection (chickepox) than an adult. Complications can arise whether you're an adult or child, but it's pretty well known that if you catch chickenpox when you're older it's usually more severe and you get more ill. My mom even had to be hospitalized with it because her complications were so serious. Also, chicken pox use to be just a common childhood illness. My brother and I were not vaccinated against it, we got sick, and we're fine. Yes complications could have arose, but complications can arise from ANY illness. I've had a cold that turned into a chest infection that turn into a severe asthma attack leading to me being in the hospital. 

In any case, I apologize for the wacko face . . I didn't mean it to be taken the way it was taken, it was meant to be more of a confused face because I was surprised by how many people think the vaccine fully protects them.


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## Lauki

I don't know... Sophie has already had it, and she was pretty poorly. But she caught it off my husband and her illness didn't come anywhere near as close to how ill my husband was. He has hundreds of scars (holes) all over his body now as a sign to how much he suffered.

I don't think I'd intentionally expose her, but I don't think I would refuse to visit anyone who does have chicken pox. Sophie spent a few days over 2 weeks with my nephew who had chicken pox last January. She didn't catch it off him, but I didn't refuse to see them either.


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## mommyof3co

And the vaccine CAN kill children too. It CAN have a lot of bad side effects. You are taking a risk either way. You intentionally expose them to the risks of the vaccine yet somehow it's much worse for us to intentionally expose them to what is usually (just like the vaccine) a very low risk disease with a very small risk of serious complications. 

It's a personal choice either way, there is no reason to act as if we are doing something horrible and 'inhumane' and saying we should not do that. Those of us on the other side of the fence could say the same thing about what you're doing. Everyone should just state their own opinion without putting down other people.


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## PepsiChic

I agree there is of course a risk with the vaccine...but everything Ive read (and was told by my sons GP) is that the vaccine actually carris *less* risk then catching the virus naturally.

The vaccine is a live vaccine BUT its a very mild version of the actual disease, when you catch it naturally from another person there is no controlling how "much" of that live disease you will get. The vaccine allows the control of that and therefor minimises the risks of complication. 

Im not saying everyone should get the vaccine, I understand some people dont like to vaccinate full stop, thats certainly *their* choice. But then if your going to expose your child to something on purpose, and it carries a bigger risk then the vaccine...it would make more sense to get the vaccine. 

In the end just like every other decision that is made, we will always do what we feel is best for our children in our situation. 

Im not here to try and sell the benefits of the vaccine, but my overall opinion is "no I wouldnt purposely expose my child, I would rather they be vaccinated against chicken pox"


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## mommyof3co

Everyone looks at things from a different point of view, I wholeheartedly believe that the vaccine is more of a risk than the disease. Now if my child hasn't had chicken pox by a certain age we would check for immunity (because it is possible to get it without actually having the full blown disease, I'm immune to measles (maybe it's mumps? sorry I can't remember but they told me during my last pregnancy) and I've never had it and have never been vaccinated for it. So we would check immunity and then consider the vaccine once we enter the period that having the disease could be more dangerous.


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## Foogirl

I have a major problem with people saying chicken pox is not dangerous. The complications can be dangerous and long lasting. I have friends who's children have ended up in hospital with them. Even without those complications, our daughter had chicken pox and it was far from "a few spots" it was absolutely horrific. The latest lot of chicken pox going round was so bad that even children who have previously had chicken pox were getting it again. At one point there were only four out of twenty four of Abby's nursery class who didn't get it. Eight of those who had it, had had it as younger children. If I had been in any way knowingly responsible for exposing her to that bug, I would have been riddled with guilt. And "getting it young" is crazy, I'd have much rather she'd have been older, at least of school age and that way she would have had half a chance of being able to deal with it.

I get the whole thing about it being dangerous to adults but you can be vaccinated as an adult against chicken pox so if your exposure hasn't happened as a child, that can be dealt with. That's absolutely no reason to deliberately expose a child. And frankly, to hell with the cost, any other child we have will be vaccinated against chicken pox, I could not bear to see another child go through what Abby did.


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## JASMAK

I have had shingles twice, and it was recommended to get chix pox vaccine for my kids (now routine here, but I had to pay $100 for my first born as it wasn't routine yet). Complications from chix pox can be very dangerous.


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## Foogirl

freckleonear said:


> If chickenpox vaccination became routine in the UK, it is estimated that cases of shingles amongst the elderly would increase by at least 20%. Shingles already causes more than 60 deaths per year.

But there is a shingles vaccination available also, so that would deal with that issue. As I see it, the decision not to vaccinate can only be justified by the NHS on the grounds of cost.


----------



## Eternal

CMarie said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMarie said:
> 
> 
> I would definitely expose my LO if he didn't catch it on his own by a certain age. Like Mommof3 said, some of us don't want to vaccinate our kiddos and I'm baffled by the fact that so many people assume that just because you get the vaccine means you're fully protected from chicken pox :wacko: The vaccine isn't 100% effective, even doctors will tell you that
> 
> No vaccine is, and it's insulting that you speak to people like that, using a wacko smilie! As a nurse and educated person I know the risks. This wasn't a thread about the pros and cons of vaccinated, I simply asked for more information so I could view all the options and make and an informed decision because I certainly am not a wacko!
> 
> As for that point it's very possible to get chicken pox more than once, and I know of several people who have. So that isn't fool proof ether and " even a doctor would tell you that"!
> 
> Children do die from chicken pox, however rare, and although chicken pox parties were common at one time, surely we have become more educated since then.
> 
> 
> *Parents should not intentionally expose children to chickenpox.* It is not safer for children to have the infection when they are younger than when they are older. Even young children can have serious (though rare) complications from the infection, including pneumonia or encephalitis. And it is not possible to know which children will develop complications.
> 
> https://www.emedicinehealth.com/chickenpox_varicella-health/page7_em.htmClick to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just rude . . just because you don't want your kids exposed to it, doesn't mean the rest of us "shouldn't" and I've heard multiple times from doctors, even my grandmother who's been a nurse for 30 years say that it is much better for a child to get this infection (chickepox) than an adult. Complications can arise whether you're an adult or child, but it's pretty well known that if you catch chickenpox when you're older it's usually more severe and you get more ill. My mom even had to be hospitalized with it because her complications were so serious. Also, chicken pox use to be just a common childhood illness. My brother and I were not vaccinated against it, we got sick, and we're fine. Yes complications could have arose, but complications can arise from ANY illness. I've had a cold that turned into a chest infection that turn into a severe asthma attack leading to me being in the hospital.
> 
> In any case, I apologize for the wacko face . . I didn't mean it to be taken the way it was taken, it was meant to be more of a confused face because I was surprised by how many people think the vaccine fully protects them.Click to expand...

Excuse me, but I would love for you to point out where I said I didn't want my children exposed to it and I stated everyone else's shouldn't either? That bit you highlighted was taken from the referenced web address, it was a quote, they were not my words! I quoted it as it states the dangers. 

Would love for you to explain to me how I am rude, you insulted people who vaccine, which I never was and haven't done, I just asked for more for information, because its not routine here and I wanted to understand more about it, etc. 

My point was while your are are Insulting people by saying that to those who vaccinate are wacko because it doesn't give 100% immunity, neither does the disease, 1 in 8 people who get chicken pox get it again. So odds are fairly simular. So I don't understand the point. 

I previously stated that its best to get it young, but upon researching it, seems there is dispute about that, but 90% of people have already had it by adulthood anyway. 

I've been a nurse for 10 years, and I have numerous doctor friends who agree its not right to expose them. But like me wouldn't intentionally avoid either. 

You point of a cold is exactly what I'm stating, you wouldn't deliberately give your child a cold, you accept they they will get cold and it's fairly normal and usual mild, but it's still not nice and surely no mother would intentionally give their child a cold, even though its normal mild illness, why would someone then intentionally give their child chicken pox? Yes normal, usually mild, let them get it even they get it.


----------



## Lu28

Foogirl said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> If chickenpox vaccination became routine in the UK, it is estimated that cases of shingles amongst the elderly would increase by at least 20%. Shingles already causes more than 60 deaths per year.
> 
> But there is a shingles vaccination available also, so that would deal with that issue. As I see it, the decision not to vaccinate can only be justified by the NHS on the grounds of cost.Click to expand...

I doubt it's purely a cost decision at all. It's not sensible to vaccinate against every illness going that has a slim chance of a serious complication. Practically every illness has that risk, we can't possibly go around vaccinating against everything. I would be extremely uncomfortable if it became commonplace to add chicken pox and flu and who knows what else into the routine vaccinating schedule. So far as I'm concerned, introducing an unnatural mix of diseases and chemicals into my child's body should be done only when absolutely necessary.


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## Eternal

I am generally against vaccinating against things like flu etc, i remember my mum mentioning it to me and I laughed, I said "against chicken pox? It's normal" and she said, yes but at one point so was measles etc. I still stood by not vaccinating.

However when it was mentioned I had a mini vision of my three, under three years all getting it, especially the twins, I really have no idea who I would cope with all of them sick, but I guess that's my selfishness! I don't think I'll vaccinate, but perhaps if they don't get it I would give them the decision as a teenager. But I see nothing wrong with it though. 

However I still don't agree with pox parties.


----------



## freckleonear

Foogirl said:


> freckleonear said:
> 
> 
> If chickenpox vaccination became routine in the UK, it is estimated that cases of shingles amongst the elderly would increase by at least 20%. Shingles already causes more than 60 deaths per year.
> 
> But there is a shingles vaccination available also, so that would deal with that issue. As I see it, the decision not to vaccinate can only be justified by the NHS on the grounds of cost.Click to expand...

That statistic was actually taking the expected level of uptake of the shingles vaccine into consideration, so the point still stands. It's not just based on cost, vaccinating children against chickenpox would result in more shingles deaths in the elderly even if they were also vaccinated.


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## Foogirl

freckleonear said:


> That statistic was actually taking the expected level of uptake of the shingles vaccine into consideration, so the point still stands. It's not just based on cost, vaccinating children against chickenpox would result in more shingles deaths in the elderly even if they were also vaccinated.

Not quite. From https://www.hpa.org.uk/NewsCentre/NationalPressReleases/2008PressReleases/080917chickenpox/


> The modelling suggested that a two dose schedule at the levels of coverage likely to be achieved in the UK would lead to an increase of at least 20% of shingles in the medium term (approximately 15-20 years). This increase could be partially, but not completely, offset by introduction of a vaccination against shingles among those aged 60+.

The shingles vaccine would still offset any increase, at least partially, and the increase is only in the medium term. The piece goes on later to say these models are only theoretical because of a large number of variables. In addition to this, statistics from countries which do vaccinate don't bear necessarily this out.

From https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/shingles-chickenpox?page=2


> But there are some reasons to doubt that childhood chickenpox shots are responsible for the uptick in shingles. In their study, Bialek and colleagues found that shingles was on the rise even before the chickenpox vaccine was licensed for children in 1995. Also, adults in states with mandatory chickenpox immunization didnt have higher rates of shingles than those in states where children werent as well-vaccinated, and therefore more likely to get sick and provide immune boosters to parents and grandparents.

I agree about not immunising every child against everything, but all immunisations in the UK are optional so no-one is forcing parents to do anything. Flu vaccines are a good example of this and are available to those who wish to take them up. Adding chicken pox to that mix would be a good thing to do, but for certain there is a cost element to it and the NHS does (despite what people may believe) take cost into account. If cost was no issue, then all children who are at risk from RSV would be given the vaccinations, which are massively expensive. In fact, only children who fulfil very strict criteria are being given them and I've seen several of my friends' children end up in hospital because of it.

There are all sorts of drugs which aren't given because the cost v benefit analysis doesn't give the right answer. I believe this vaccination falls foul of that too.


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## sweetcheeks78

To get back to the OP's question. Nay! Deliberate exposure of my LO to an infectious disease just doesn't sit right with me (and before anyone in the Yay camp throws statistics at me about the risks for young and old, I'm a microbiologist and I understand perfectly the difference between chicken pox and shingles and the possible implications).


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## Abigailly

No, I wouldn't. My neighbor's children had CP recently, at 3 years old (and no previous illnesses) she ended up in hospital severely ill. She was in so much pain it was horrifying to see. She couldn't sleep, she was unwell, she didn't eat, she became dehydrated because it was so difficult to get fluid into her, meanwhile her 6 year old brother cruised through with 4 spots. I'm going to go and ask her mum if I can post a picture of this poor girl's back. And see if any one of you would want to risk exposing your children to this.

Because there's a CHANCE they MIGHT not get complications? Since when did anyone take gambles with their children? Why would you, just because it's chicken pox? I know there's a CHANCE my daughter MIGHT swim if I throw her into a swimming pool as she's fairly competent, but I wouldn't take that risk! Just as I wouldn't risk CP just because she's always dealt with other illnesses well and as far as I know she doesn't have a compromised immune system. 

I couldn't do it, I couldn't see my baby suffer and know it was my fault, that I'd deliberately hurt her like that. I just couldn't go out my way to make her un well. I can deal with her being ill if it just happens. But how could anyone watch their baby be itchy and unwell knowing that it's their fault?


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## raylynn

I am another that would not expose my lo on purpose. I am actually glad he didn't get it so that I could vaccinate. Now I know he is a lot less likely to get it. Sure he might have come down with it due to the vaccine, but to me that risk seems worth the risk of him catching it for sure at some point and possibly suffering significantly.


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## MeAndMyShadow

Do they not routinely vaccinate for chicken pox in the UK?


----------



## Cassie123

MeAndMyShadow said:


> Do they not routinely vaccinate for chicken pox in the UK?

No they don't

Personally I wouldn't until she got to a certain age maybe 9/10.

I would be worried about her not getting it then getting it as an adult when it can be much worse.

However it is a long way off and i dont know if in 9 or so years time I would rather vaccinate than expose her to it.


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## Sunshinebubs

I can't believe there is a vaccine for chicken pox:wacko: Honestly, how many vaccines can this generation of children take. Poor kids. Whatever next....:dohh: Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:

And yes, I would expose my daughter after a certain age...it is a mild disease. I have every faith in her strong immune system. The consequences of catching the chicken pox when older is a lot worse. Hence why the UK don't routinely vaccinate against it.


----------



## My_First

Sunshinebubs said:


> Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:
> 
> .

Well, actually it does, but of course some people are still going to get it. No medicine can guarantee immunity its normally around 70-80%

I just didn't want mis information spouted around :flower:


----------



## Eternal

My_First said:


> Sunshinebubs said:
> 
> 
> Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:
> 
> .
> 
> Well, actually it does, but of course some people are still going to get it. No medicine can guarantee immunity its normally around 70-80%
> 
> I just didn't want mis information spouted around :flower:Click to expand...

I'd second that :thumbup:

And additionally getting the disease doenst mean you won't get it twice, I quoted it somewhere else on this thread, I believe it was 1 in 8!


----------



## RedRose

Sunshinebubs said:


> Honestly, how many vaccines can this generation of children take. Poor kids.


Yeah, poor kids. Being protected from illness. *shakes fist*


----------



## hattiehippo

Sunshinebubs said:


> I can't believe there is a vaccine for chicken pox:wacko: Honestly, how many vaccines can this generation of children take. Poor kids. Whatever next....:dohh: Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:
> 
> And yes, I would expose my daughter after a certain age...it is a mild disease. I have every faith in her strong immune system. The consequences of catching the chicken pox when older is a lot worse. Hence why the UK don't routinely vaccinate against it.

I also have faith in my son's strong immune system and he is a child who is rarely ill. He was still very poorly with chicken pox and has some nasty scars that I hope will fade in time. For him it was not a mild disease despite his good immune system.

And yes you can catch it again regardless - my poor DH has had it 3 times now.


----------



## Eternal

hattiehippo said:


> Sunshinebubs said:
> 
> 
> I can't believe there is a vaccine for chicken pox:wacko: Honestly, how many vaccines can this generation of children take. Poor kids. Whatever next....:dohh: Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:
> 
> And yes, I would expose my daughter after a certain age...it is a mild disease. I have every faith in her strong immune system. The consequences of catching the chicken pox when older is a lot worse. Hence why the UK don't routinely vaccinate against it.
> 
> I also have faith in my son's strong immune system and he is a child who is rarely ill. He was still very poorly with chicken pox and has some nasty scars that I hope will fade in time. For him it was not a mild disease despite his good immune system.
> 
> And yes you can catch it again regardless - my poor DH has had it 3 times now.Click to expand...

Your poor husband! I am assuming at least once as an adult then? Poor thing.


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## suzib76

Lana also had it twice. The first time it went round nursery she had a very mild bout with around 10 spots and around 6 months later she had it again. Full on.


----------



## hattiehippo

Eternal said:


> hattiehippo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshinebubs said:
> 
> 
> I can't believe there is a vaccine for chicken pox:wacko: Honestly, how many vaccines can this generation of children take. Poor kids. Whatever next....:dohh: Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:
> 
> And yes, I would expose my daughter after a certain age...it is a mild disease. I have every faith in her strong immune system. The consequences of catching the chicken pox when older is a lot worse. Hence why the UK don't routinely vaccinate against it.
> 
> I also have faith in my son's strong immune system and he is a child who is rarely ill. He was still very poorly with chicken pox and has some nasty scars that I hope will fade in time. For him it was not a mild disease despite his good immune system.
> 
> And yes you can catch it again regardless - my poor DH has had it 3 times now.Click to expand...
> 
> Your poor husband! I am assuming at least once as an adult then? Poor thing.Click to expand...

Yes once as a child and twice as an adult. Quite mild both times presumably cos he'd already had it. Just hoping Tom's not going to follow his daddy in this!


----------



## meldmac

Sunshinebubs said:


> I can't believe there is a vaccine for chicken pox:wacko: Honestly, how many vaccines can this generation of children take. Poor kids. Whatever next....:dohh: Not to mention that it doesn't work and you can catch it anyway. :rolleyes:
> 
> And yes, I would expose my daughter after a certain age...it is a mild disease. I have every faith in her strong immune system. The consequences of catching the chicken pox when older is a lot worse. Hence why the UK don't routinely vaccinate against it.

Actually just like the flu shot it is not 100% but it does help protect against it! I would advise against giving advice that is not correct. A lot of those vaccines your against have saved 100s if not 1000s of people, much more then they have harmed.


----------



## RaspberryK

No because I don't want it, i've never had it and think we will both get the vaccine! 
Xx


----------



## JleStar

Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.


----------



## Foogirl

I feel certain "fun" is not the word Abby would use to describe her two weeks of torture


----------



## Lauki

I don't think my husband would either.


----------



## Phantom

My son just got the vaccine last week. And it isn't always a "mild" disease. My OH had chicken pox in his mouth and at the back of his throat and couldn't breathe when he had it.


----------



## Eternal

JleStar said:


> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.

Try saying its fun to the familis of 100 children a year who die from complications of chicken pox in the USA alone. Plus it's not lifelong immunity, 1 in 8 people get it more than once.


----------



## BabyJayne

Eternal said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.
> 
> Try saying its fun to the familis of 100 children a year who die from complications of chicken pox in the USA alone. Plus it's not lifelong immunity, *1 in 8 people get it more than once*.Click to expand...

I thought it was very very rare to get actual chickenpox (not shingles) more than once!


----------



## hattiehippo

JleStar said:


> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.

Really don't think fun is the word either me or Tom would use either. He was so poorly and it is not fun seeing your child like that. Maybe you'll be lucky and your child will get it mildly - even then I don't think I'd use the word fun to describe having lots of sore itchy spots.

And no it doesn't give guaranteed life long immunity. My DH has had it 3 times so far.


----------



## Foogirl

There were quite a few children at Abby's nursery were getting it for the second time.


----------



## suzib76

JleStar said:


> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.


But you don't have lifelong immunity, you have to have the disease in the first place!!


----------



## sequeena

Definitely a no from me. Thomas and I have never had it and I don't want us to have it.


----------



## Saphira

Yikes, noo. My sister got the chicken pox so badly. I mean, there was seriously no spotless area on her, they were even in her mouth, ears.. just everywhere - she was miserable. :( I got lucky with a milder case. I just couldn't expose my daughter to that on purpose. I know it can be dangerous the older the person is though.. but there's also a vaccine giving immunity, which I'll look into.


----------



## Murphy98

Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.


----------



## hopeandpray

The vaccines aren't available here as far as I know but I would never voluntarily expose my child to it.


----------



## Samemka

I've been to friends houses when their LOs had chicken pox & don't see the problem with it. My girls go to nursery anyway so they're bound to get it at some point!


----------



## JleStar

suzib76 said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.
> 
> 
> But you don't have lifelong immunity, you have to have the disease in the first place!!Click to expand...

That's what I mean. I would expose him so he had the chickenpox to have life long immunity.


----------



## JleStar

Murphy98 said:


> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.

Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.


----------



## suzib76

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.
> 
> 
> But you don't have lifelong immunity, you have to have the disease in the first place!!Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I mean. I would expose him so he had the chickenpox to have life long immunity.Click to expand...

Well you don't actually get lifelong immunity anyway from having chicken pox. Second cases are rare, but not unheard of. But still I can't see how you could call it immunity anyway if the child actually has to have the chicken pox in the first place. I would understand to a certain extent people vaccinating to try and prevent it, the idea of being immune makes sense, so they never have it, but to expose a child so they suffer from it in order to become immune seems a bit ironic to me


----------



## Eternal

BabyJayne said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.
> 
> Try saying its fun to the familis of 100 children a year who die from complications of chicken pox in the USA alone. Plus it's not lifelong immunity, *1 in 8 people get it more than once*.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought it was very very rare to get actual chickenpox (not shingles) more than once!Click to expand...

No that figure is for chicken pox and cited form the NHS website. So yes it is fairly common for people to get it multiple times, I know a few who have.


----------



## Eternal

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> Defintley yes! Why not? He will have life long immunity without getting a vaccine. I had the chickenpox. I remember it being fun. I stayed home from school with m siblings an we had a blast.
> 
> 
> But you don't have lifelong immunity, you have to have the disease in the first place!!Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I mean. I would expose him so he had the chickenpox to have life long immunity.Click to expand...

BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU LIFELONG IMMUNITY! Stop writing things that are not true, it's very easy to find stats on the amount of people who get it more than once. I know several and the statistics show high levels of people who do get it more than once.


----------



## Eternal

JleStar said:


> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...

I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity? 

A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.


----------



## Eala

I will hands up admit to not having ploughed through 14 pages of this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating something. But a comment on the last couple of pages (I forget who it was) made me want to chip in. 

Both my girls have had chicken pox (Roo got it at nursery and brought it home, we think). I didn't enjoy them having it, and neither did they. But in some ways, I am glad they got it out of the way young, as research evidence does show that for the majority of people, having it as a child is far better than getting it as an adult. For kids under 10, for all that it can be pretty miserable, it's not generally life-threatening (unless there are other immune/illness-related issues). For adults, it's actually more likely to cause serious complications. Just as an example, my friend's little boy has various health issues, including a tracheotomy. He got chicken pox and they were all really worried about it. As it was, he was absolutely fine, but his Mum caught it (having not had it as a child) and ended up in hospital on dialysis for acute renal failure. It was actually that case which made me look into the whole illness in more detail. So although I'm not sure I'd do a "pox party", and I don't see the need for a vaccine for CP in healthy children, I wouldn't actively avoid CP either. 

Oh, and my Mum is one of those who has had chicken pox twice. She's had shingles twice as well, poor thing!


----------



## freckleonear

Regarding having chickenpox more than once, there are several theories. There are other viruses with similar symptoms, so they can often be incorrectly diagnosed as chicken pox. There may also be several strains of the chicken pox virus. But some people simply don't make the antibodies that provide immunity against chicken pox, in which case the vaccine wouldn't work on these people either.

It's all very well quoting the 1 in 8 statistic from the NHS page, but don't just quote the part that fits in with your argument. It actually says 4.5 (1 in 22) to 13% (1 in 8), and also says "Experts therefore agree that if you&#8217;ve already had chickenpox, it&#8217;s very likely that you will have developed antibodies."


----------



## SillyMoo1983

I wouldn't take my LO to a chicken pox party. She'll most likely get it when she goes to school anyway. I'd rather have an itchy 5 year old than an itchy 1 year old. I had it when I was 1 and mum said I caught it off my brother who got it at school. He hardly had any spots whereas apparently I really suffered and was COVERED in spots and poorly with it. My dad has never had it so I wouldn't want to risk exposing him in his 50s. LO has enough to worry about with teething, colds and tummy bugs without chicken pox to add to it.


----------



## Foogirl

Eala, I will admit, I'm glad Abby has had it and although she could potentially get it again, I suspect the voracity of the virus she had would make it unlikely or at the very least mild. But I'm sure you followed our chicken pox journey at the time, it was horrific. If I'd done that to her by not actively avoiding it, I'd have felt even worse than I did, seeing her go through it. As it was the virus downed almost an entire roomful of kids before the nursery even knew they had it. I'd have liked for her to be a bit older so she could have handled it better. Because of what we went through, and what i've seen other apparently healthy children go through, I will consider vaccinating, should there ever be a "next time"


----------



## RachA

I know all experiences are differences but for me and my family the earlier we had chicken pox the easier it was to deal with it. As the youngest of 4 I got it when I was a baby. My mum found that I dealt with it the easiest. We all had it one after the other. My oldest sibling was much worse with it than the rest of us. Then with my two my youngest didn't even know she had it and my eldest was slightly worse than her-they were 2 and 4 when they had it. 


To the poster who said about their dad never having had it-my oh hasn't and we were worried about him when my two had it. However some people do actually have a natural immunity to it and generally if they haven't had it when they get to their 30's it is more likely that they are immune already espically if they had siblings who did have it or their own children who did have it.


----------



## Foogirl

Eternal, did you know, you never get the same cold twice? Apparently once you've had one, you can't get it again. The next cold is a different one. Not making any point or anything, just thought it was an Interesting bit of trivia


----------



## JleStar

Eternal said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...

Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war. 
Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child. 

A question for you?
Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them. 
By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.


----------



## girl friday

Definitely not, DH's oldest brother had chicken pox when he was 8, he died from complications relating to it.


----------



## suzib76

JleStar said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...


Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.


----------



## meldmac

So those that are for exposing your children to chicken pox parties, would you feel the same if your child developed a serious complication from it? Regardless of how rare these complications occur they still do occur and I for one would not risk it. If I did risk it and something serious happened to my son because of it I'd never forgive myself. I just don't understand how people would willingly do this even if the chances are small of anything happening.


----------



## JleStar

meldmac said:


> So those that are for exposing your children to chicken pox parties, would you feel the same if your child developed a serious complication from it? Regardless of how rare these complications occur they still do occur and I for one would not risk it. If I did risk it and something serious happened to my son because of it I'd never forgive myself. I just don't understand how people would willingly do this even if the chances are small of anything happening.

I feel the same way about vaccinating. I guess it's just how you look at it. Their is a risk vaccinating but parents do it so blindly. Again, that is my opinion, just like others have had theirs.


----------



## JleStar

suzib76 said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic. It's almost the same thing. You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.


----------



## suzib76

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...

No, it really isn't.

Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it

They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.


----------



## portablechick

I nursed a man who died after catching chickenpox from his young daughter : (. It was very very sad for all concerned. He actually had the pox on his liver, brain. It really can be a terrible illness in adulthood. Though I believe chickenpox can be responsible for causing strokes in children, so not entirely harmless for kids. Think I would prefer them to catch it as kids, not sure if I would go out of my way to expose them though.


----------



## peanut56

Please do not assume that those of us who vaccinate do so "blindly". I find that offensive.


----------



## meldmac

JleStar said:


> meldmac said:
> 
> 
> So those that are for exposing your children to chicken pox parties, would you feel the same if your child developed a serious complication from it? Regardless of how rare these complications occur they still do occur and I for one would not risk it. If I did risk it and something serious happened to my son because of it I'd never forgive myself. I just don't understand how people would willingly do this even if the chances are small of anything happening.
> 
> I feel the same way about vaccinating. I guess it's just how you look at it. Their is a risk vaccinating but parents do it so blindly. Again, that is my opinion, just like others have had theirs.Click to expand...

I do not vaccinate blindly!! That is very offensive. I've done countless of hours researching what I want my son vaccinated against and the risks included in it.


----------



## JleStar

suzib76 said:


> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Eternal said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...

I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.


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## JleStar

peanut56 said:


> Please do not assume that those of us who vaccinate do so "blindly". I find that offensive.

My apologies.


----------



## JleStar

meldmac said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meldmac said:
> 
> 
> So those that are for exposing your children to chicken pox parties, would you feel the same if your child developed a serious complication from it? Regardless of how rare these complications occur they still do occur and I for one would not risk it. If I did risk it and something serious happened to my son because of it I'd never forgive myself. I just don't understand how people would willingly do this even if the chances are small of anything happening.
> 
> I feel the same way about vaccinating. I guess it's just how you look at it. Their is a risk vaccinating but parents do it so blindly. Again, that is my opinion, just like others have had theirs.Click to expand...
> 
> I do not vaccinate blindly!! That is very offensive. I've done countless of hours researching what I want my son vaccinated against and the risks included in it.Click to expand...

Sorry


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## suzib76

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Eternal said:
> 
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> JleStar said:
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...

No it is not, the principal is still the same.

A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.

I thought it would be obvious I used measles as the example because mine have not been vaccinated against chicken pox.


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## JleStar

suzib76 said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Eternal said:
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> JleStar said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...


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## JleStar

Sorry my post was a little confusing....my statement starts with Ok


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## suzib76

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Eternal said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The end result is the same even if my wording is not perfect.
> 
> Vaccination = child protection without suffering disease
> 
> Deliberate exposure = child protected from the disease they have been exposed to and already suffered from
> 
> Not the same, not at all. I still find it ironic.Click to expand...


----------



## RachA

meldmac said:


> So those that are for exposing your children to chicken pox parties, would you feel the same if your child developed a serious complication from it? Regardless of how rare these complications occur they still do occur and I for one would not risk it. If I did risk it and something serious happened to my son because of it I'd never forgive myself. I just don't understand how people would willingly do this even if the chances are small of anything happening.


I don't know for sure but i would assume that those children who had complications following being exposed at a 'pox party' would still have complications following being exposed generally. If this is the case then the complications are likely to be worse if they are left to get it at their own rate as the older you are the more complications there can be. Also, when we choose to give the immunisations we are deliberately giving our child a dose of the illness and there is the possibility of complications following the injection.


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## Eternal

JleStar said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...

No certainly not afraid of diseases. I don't avoid any disease, being old or chicken pox, but I don't intentionally infect my kids either. I am a firm believer in ones immune system, my eldest being three had anti biotics, my twins being one had them had birth as one had step b, otherwise none. I am a firm believer in our bodies and their ability to heal themselves. I have nothing against anti biotics, happy for them to have them, but I don't run to the doctors wen they have a cold, as they should be able to fight it themselves. 

The other point, I didn't advocate for vaccines, it was my first statement, I am not saying to vaccinate for chicken pox, I've done my research and unless they were teenagers I wouldn't vaccinate them and then I would leave hat choice to them. 

I pointed out that chicken pox related deaths were extremely low, BUT there are deaths and you are advocating this as a mild disease. 

I take my children paces where family members have cold, I am just saying its surely you wouldn't intentionally give your child a cold.

To whoever says you don't get the same cold twice, yes I know, cold mutate very quickly so they often mutate from person to person so that is why people often get different symptoms and can't always shift it. The flu does to, but at a slower rate, thus is by people are offered annual flu jabs, it's not to do with your immunity "running out" or anything like that, it's just changed. Diseases like chicken pox don't or at least if they do its extremely slow. 

I believe in our bodies ability to heal themselves, I agree with taking natural approaches in some cases to, I did so with my fertility which is why I blame twins on me :haha: but I don't agree with intentionally inflicting an illness on a child. Plus if you are going start staying that second cases of chicken pox are misdiagnosed the first time, then what happens if that's the case, what happens if your harmless chicken pox party is actually a meningitis one? Or is that sow harmless disease that silly people like me are scared of? Because I know and have seen the disability and loss of life from diseases like that, measles abs such like as a nurse and from friends who have lost children. If you think it's so common to be misdiagnosed what are you subjecting your child to? 

I haven't seen or heard any first case problems with chicken pox, except the odd cant breathe properly or swallow due to spots in the throat.


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## Eternal

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Eternal said:
> 
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> JleStar said:
> 
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turned this into a vaccine vs non vaccine debate, and it's insulting to state we blindly vaccinate our children, for many of us that really isn't the case, I am very pro vaccine, I have seen results of these diseases, disability and death from meningitis, measles, polio. Whatever these risks "could" be, the reality if these diseases is known, and of the whole would had your attitude, a lot of children would die and be left with diseases very quickly, no matter how good your immune system is. I take my risk with the known threat I front of me, and I have consulted people and read medical and pharmacology journals, studied immunity, and read endless amounts of pages from people who write up conspiracy theories on vaccines. I'm happy with my decision and I didn't blindly make it, I saw with my own eyes the results of these diseases, and I can't find one compelling reason not to, so while your busy calling us blind, consider the fact that because we vaccinate our children, your child gets herd immunity.Click to expand...


----------



## Andypanda6570

I have never had them, I am 42 and have been exposed to them probably 60 times. My stupid SIL 's kids had them and she didn't tell me, I was pregnant with my 3rd son ( 12 yrs ago) thank God I never caught it or my son was not hurt in any way. My boys are 21 19 and 12 now, but they have had the vaccine and never got the chickenpox , my doctor said if they did get it , it would be a mild case. As for me he said I am probably just immune. I wouldn't take my kids to a party for chickenpox, if they were going to be exposed it would happen naturally .. JMO :flower:


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## Andypanda6570

I meant my stupid SIL didn't tell me the kids had it, didn't mean the kids were stupid, just her.. :nope:


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## Eternal

Andypanda6570 said:


> I meant my stupid SIL didn't tell me the kids had it, didn't mean the kids were stupid, just her.. :nope:

Sounds heartless, why don't people think? Glad you were both ok though :thumbup:


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## JleStar

Eternal said:


> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> Eternal said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turned this into a vaccine vs non vaccine debate, and it's insulting to state we blindly vaccinate our children, for many of us that really isn't the case, I am very pro vaccine, I have seen results of these diseases, disability and death from meningitis, measles, polio. Whatever these risks "could" be, the reality if these diseases is known, and of the whole would had your attitude, a lot of children would die and be left with diseases very quickly, no matter how good your immune system is. I take my risk with the known threat I front of me, and I have consulted people and read medical and pharmacology journals, studied immunity, and read endless amounts of pages from people who write up conspiracy theories on vaccines. I'm happy with my decision and I didn't blindly make it, I saw with my own eyes the results of these diseases, and I can't find one compelling reason not to, so while your busy calling us blind, consider the fact that because we vaccinate our children, your child gets herd immunity.Click to expand...
> 
> I already apologized twice for saying the word "blindly." from my experience many parents do blindly vaccinate without research..obviously not all parents do. I guess we are all just different. I wonder if you had read and researched all that I have if you would still come to the conclusion to vaccinate----that's where we are different; I researched and said hell no to vaccines (for now) and you researched and said, ok ( I assume). Another point to make is I can't say I am a believer in herd immunity so I don't credit you or others who vaccinate for my child's health and imply that i owe you something is rude. I may be wrong and you may wrong as well. It's a tricky subject because we are all doing what we think is best for our children and the reason I bring up vaccines (although the debate gives me a migraine) is that I pray that I get through to someone out there that maybe they should look into things better and not blindly vaccinate because the dr. has it on his schedule. --if in the end they chose to still vaccinate (with various research not only from cdc fda aap websites) then at least their decision was an informed one and they understood the risks they were taking.Click to expand...


----------



## PepsiChic

Eternal said:


> Plus if you are going start staying that second cases of chicken pox are misdiagnosed the first time, then what happens if that's the case, *what happens if your harmless chicken pox party is actually a meningitis one?* Or is that sow harmless disease that silly people like me are scared of? Because I know and have seen the disability and loss of life from diseases like that, measles abs such like as a nurse and from friends who have lost children. If you think it's so common to be misdiagnosed what are you subjecting your child to?
> 
> I haven't seen or heard any first case problems with chicken pox, except the odd cant breathe properly or swallow due to spots in the throat.

:thumbup: this is another BIG reason why I would never do it, but something people just DONT think about!


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## rwhite

Nope not at all


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## Eternal

JleStar said:


> Eternal said:
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> Eternal said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turned this into a vaccine vs non vaccine debate, and it's insulting to state we blindly vaccinate our children, for many of us that really isn't the case, I am very pro vaccine, I have seen results of these diseases, disability and death from meningitis, measles, polio. Whatever these risks "could" be, the reality if these diseases is known, and of the whole would had your attitude, a lot of children would die and be left with diseases very quickly, no matter how good your immune system is. I take my risk with the known threat I front of me, and I have consulted people and read medical and pharmacology journals, studied immunity, and read endless amounts of pages from people who write up conspiracy theories on vaccines. I'm happy with my decision and I didn't blindly make it, I saw with my own eyes the results of these diseases, and I can't find one compelling reason not to, so while your busy calling us blind, consider the fact that because we vaccinate our children, your child gets herd immunity.Click to expand...
> 
> I already apologized twice for saying the word "blindly." from my experience many parents do blindly vaccinate without research..obviously not all parents do. I guess we are all just different. I wonder if you had read and researched all that I have if you would still come to the conclusion to vaccinate----that's where we are different; I researched and said hell no to vaccines (for now) and you researched and said, ok ( I assume). Another point to make is I can't say I am a believer in herd immunity so I don't credit you or others who vaccinate for my child's health and imply that i owe you something is rude. I may be wrong and you may wrong as well. It's a tricky subject because we are all doing what we think is best for our children and the reason I bring up vaccines (although the debate gives me a migraine) is that I pray that I get through to someone out there that maybe they should look into things better and not blindly vaccinate because the dr. has it on his schedule. --if in the end they chose to still vaccinate (with various research not only from cdc fda aap websites) then at least their decision was an informed one and they understood the risks they were taking.Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen the loss of life and disability caused from these diseases.
> 
> It sounds like you don't believe in anything that has any creditable, proof behind it, and your research by the sounds of it is google. Good luck to you and your childrenClick to expand...


----------



## JleStar

Eternal said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Eternal said:
> 
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> suzib76 said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Eternal said:
> 
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> JleStar said:
> 
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turned this into a vaccine vs non vaccine debate, and it's insulting to state we blindly vaccinate our children, for many of us that really isn't the case, I am very pro vaccine, I have seen results of these diseases, disability and death from meningitis, measles, polio. Whatever these risks "could" be, the reality if these diseases is known, and of the whole would had your attitude, a lot of children would die and be left with diseases very quickly, no matter how good your immune system is. I take my risk with the known threat I front of me, and I have consulted people and read medical and pharmacology journals, studied immunity, and read endless amounts of pages from people who write up conspiracy theories on vaccines. I'm happy with my decision and I didn't blindly make it, I saw with my own eyes the results of these diseases, and I can't find one compelling reason not to, so while your busy calling us blind, consider the fact that because we vaccinate our children, your child gets herd immunity.Click to expand...
> 
> I already apologized twice for saying the word "blindly." from my experience many parents do blindly vaccinate without research..obviously not all parents do. I guess we are all just different. I wonder if you had read and researched all that I have if you would still come to the conclusion to vaccinate----that's where we are different; I researched and said hell no to vaccines (for now) and you researched and said, ok ( I assume). Another point to make is I can't say I am a believer in herd immunity so I don't credit you or others who vaccinate for my child's health and imply that i owe you something is rude. I may be wrong and you may wrong as well. It's a tricky subject because we are all doing what we think is best for our children and the reason I bring up vaccines (although the debate gives me a migraine) is that I pray that I get through to someone out there that maybe they should look into things better and not blindly vaccinate because the dr. has it on his schedule. --if in the end they chose to still vaccinate (with various research not only from cdc fda aap websites) then at least their decision was an informed one and they understood the risks they were taking.Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen the loss of life and disability caused from these diseases.
> 
> It sounds like you don't believe in anything that has any creditable, proof behind it, and your research by the sounds of it is google. Good luck to you and your childrenClick to expand...
> 
> Wow. Your comment is rude, arrogant and presumptuous. I do not research on google. I have read many books and medical journal articles for my research. I don't know why I am even explaining this to you. You can take your fake good luck wish back.
> I was making peace with you in the last post stating that we are all different and trying our best; guess that was foolish of me.Click to expand...


----------



## Eternal

JleStar said:


> Eternal said:
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> Eternal said:
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> JleStar said:
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> Murphy98 said:
> 
> 
> Chickenpox can have some serious complications including encephalitis and pneumonia....not evidently fun for everyone. That is why the vaccination is standard now where I am from. I hardly think him a "poor kid" for living in an age where he has access to life-bettering/life-saving vaccinations.
> 
> Encephalitis is also sometimes caused by vaccines among other adverse reactions. My entire school had chickenpox including all my family friends and it was fine. It was the norm back then. IMO vaccines are not the magic cure all people would like to believe they are. Everyone is entitled to there opinion on the matter. I don't feel like having that debate now either.Click to expand...
> 
> I am not advocating vaccines, but when you go around calling it a mild disease and oh it's harmless everyone in my school had it, then I have reason to respond, people die from this disease and are hospitalised and be really very unwell. Years ago measles was seen as the norm and would be treated like chicken pox is today, would you call measles mild and fun? What about cold? They are usually mild, everyone gets them, should we have cold parties to build up our kids immunity?
> 
> A disease is a disease and although you can do what you like with your children, telling people in a public forum is a mild and harmless disease and that getting it gives lifelong immunity is wrong, you can have what ever opinions you like, but it's not always a mild disease, any disease that can kill or give serious side effects should be treated wit respect and IT DOES NOT GOVE LIFE LONG IMMUNITY, at least not in many.Click to expand...
> 
> Oh boy..here goes. I hate vaccine debates because I find that most people are just stuck in what they believe and not willing really to budge that much on their beliefs. I am replying to you eternal more for the people who are reading this thread who may be undecided on the matter and not to start a vaccine war.
> Like I said before I would expose my child to chickenpox so he would gain immunity. You said in your comment that it was ironic I said that---let me explain and make this very CLEAR. Exposing him at a young age would be beneficial to him in his adulthood. He would for the most part be immune. The disease usually confers permanent immunity; it is rarely contracted again. My comment about the entire school having chickenpox was to show that it really WAS NOT that big of a disease. A stat I just read says, "Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, every year, of the MILLIONS of people in the US who contracted the disease, about 100 died from related complications." Most of those cases where people with weakend immune systems and adults who never had the BENEFIT of getting the disease as a child.
> 
> A question for you?
> Are you that afraid of every disease---you listed a COLD, a cold? You don't think your immune system could handle that? What kind of world is this? IMO we need to get back to USING our immune systems and strengthening them.
> By the way every vaccine you inject holds a risk of complication..you talk of preventing disease but you may well be injecting it into your child. God forbid it so but the many adverse reactions are clearly documented in the VAERS database if you ever wanted to see it.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was me who found the theory of exposing someone to a disease on order to give them immunity to that very disease ironic. I still do.Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. And by the way if you find that exposing a child to the disease to prevent it in the future is ironic then you should also call vaccinating ironic.* It's almost the same thing.* You are injecting your child (in an unnatural way) with the virus (and other horrible toxic ingredients) so they have an immune reaction...and by the way the shelf life of immunity for the chickenpox is unknown...I would like to expose my child naturally so his immune system can create antibodies to fight it in the future when chickenpox would be more dangerous.Click to expand...
> 
> No, it really isn't.
> 
> Being in the uk I have no idea how the chickenpox vaccine works as it isn't routinely given here. My children have never had it
> 
> They have however been vaccinated against measles, they were given the antibodies in order to create immunity. This is nothing like suffering from measles to create immunity. Sometimes after these vaccines kids suffer from a little reaction, but that reaction is nothing like a full blown case.Click to expand...
> 
> I thought we were talking about chickenpox. Measles is another subject.Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not, the principal is still the same.
> 
> A Vaccination will give antibodies to create immunity. This is a very very different to deliberately exposing your child in order for them to catch and suffer from a disease in order to create said immunity.
> 
> Ok..vaccines do not give antibodies they give you the germ and your body creates antibodies. Your statement was incorrect. That is the similarity...your body creating the antibodies. Obviously I know the difference is getting the symptoms of the disease. Vaccines have never been fully tested with a double blind study so to say that some may have a little reaction May also be misleading. There have been long term diseases linked to vaccines including many auto immune diseases and possibly cancer.Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You turned this into a vaccine vs non vaccine debate, and it's insulting to state we blindly vaccinate our children, for many of us that really isn't the case, I am very pro vaccine, I have seen results of these diseases, disability and death from meningitis, measles, polio. Whatever these risks "could" be, the reality if these diseases is known, and of the whole would had your attitude, a lot of children would die and be left with diseases very quickly, no matter how good your immune system is. I take my risk with the known threat I front of me, and I have consulted people and read medical and pharmacology journals, studied immunity, and read endless amounts of pages from people who write up conspiracy theories on vaccines. I'm happy with my decision and I didn't blindly make it, I saw with my own eyes the results of these diseases, and I can't find one compelling reason not to, so while your busy calling us blind, consider the fact that because we vaccinate our children, your child gets herd immunity.Click to expand...
> 
> I already apologized twice for saying the word "blindly." from my experience many parents do blindly vaccinate without research..obviously not all parents do. I guess we are all just different. I wonder if you had read and researched all that I have if you would still come to the conclusion to vaccinate----that's where we are different; I researched and said hell no to vaccines (for now) and you researched and said, ok ( I assume). Another point to make is I can't say I am a believer in herd immunity so I don't credit you or others who vaccinate for my child's health and imply that i owe you something is rude. I may be wrong and you may wrong as well. It's a tricky subject because we are all doing what we think is best for our children and the reason I bring up vaccines (although the debate gives me a migraine) is that I pray that I get through to someone out there that maybe they should look into things better and not blindly vaccinate because the dr. has it on his schedule. --if in the end they chose to still vaccinate (with various research not only from cdc fda aap websites) then at least their decision was an informed one and they understood the risks they were taking.Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen the loss of life and disability caused from these diseases.
> 
> It sounds like you don't believe in anything that has any creditable, proof behind it, and your research by the sounds of it is google. Good luck to you and your childrenClick to expand...
> 
> Wow. Your comment is rude, arrogant and presumptuous. I do not research on google. I have read many books and medical journal articles for my research. I don't know why I am even explaining this to you. You can take your fake good luck wish back.
> I was making peace with you in the last post stating that we are all different and trying our best; guess that was foolish of me.Click to expand...
> 
> No you didn't, you said you apologised to others for calling it blindly then went on to say it again that we blindly vaccinate. I would love to hear your credible articles then ... Because every time someone says something like this they bring up the autism study, which was discredited or can't bring up anything other than pages listing ingredients and saying how they are harmful. Yet go on to say they have studied, which I know how much it costs to access these articles and I doubt it. So please do share, if there is something creditable then I am happy to hear it, but all these debates get is no vaxers telling everyone who vaccinated that they are blindly doing it and are uneducated to the consequences, then please enlighten us with credible studies. Because my point is that children die from these diseases.
> 
> Also please also educate me to how herd immunity isn't real.
> 
> I have no issues with debating this, I have often had my mind changed on things, but I am sick to the back teeth of people calming we are uneducated for vaccinating when it's often the other way round. I was talking to someone recently whose child had got measles, the child was fine, was hospitalised although I am not sure why it sounds mild, but the mother hasn't vaccinated because of things she had heard people say, she had heard arguments from people like you and thought, oh it's risky I won't do that to my child, she didn't research, she just believed the word of friends or whatever, I met her when my kids were getting their vaccines and hers were too after the event. But that is why I argue, because frankly do what you like, and I do wish you good luck, but I don't want others blindly accepting risks that have no basis of fact. Debate all you like but provide some articles and fact, so that when people follow you they are least have some basis for their choice.
> 
> Every person should always make an informed choice, both for or against, that way if something goes wrong either way you know.
> 
> Back to the debate though, you be never answered my question, you posted that the majority of cases are misdiagnosed, and if that's the case what could you be exposing your child to?Click to expand...


----------



## fluffpuffin

I agree with eternal. I would like to see proper proof / studies that would show the risks of a vaccine could be higher than the benefits. it's only fair to have choices backed up with real evidence.


----------



## Foogirl

I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.


----------



## PepsiChic

I feel Im very fortunate in that my doctor gives me his honest opinion on the vaccines when I ask him.

when they were vaccinating for the flu I asked him if he really thought it was necessary and he said honestly for my child..no. Barry was a happy healthy active child and was not "high risk" and wasnt going to be spending time around high risk people. so we opted out of that vaccine.

with the MMR we asked about the benefits of waiting based on the studies that show it is slightly more effective after 15 months. having worked in the UK where that is more common he talked in length about the studies and said that ultimatly it was up to me but he honestly didnt see mcuhd ifferent between doing it and waiting other then that it was less stressfulf or my sons body to deal with the vaccine after 15 months when he wasnt being given other vaccines at the same time...so we waited till he was 18 months for that one.

yes a lot of doctors will follow the book. but if you ask them for their deep down honest opinion on vaccines they will give it. 

I vaccinated Barry against varicella, I'll do the same again for Connor, and I myself was vaccinated as an adult because I never contacted the disease as a child.


----------



## JleStar

It is my understanding eternal that we are both fighting the same battle...we both have good intentions in continuing this conversation. I like you don't want "our children" injured or suffering. I like you am a mother. I love my baby boy so much that I spend time late at night researching and reading about vacinne safety and effectiveness. I have not vaccinated yet because there are no studies that show vaccines to be safe and effective. If there is one, please point me in that direction. I am not interested in the CDC, FDA, or aap opinions or interpretations of studies....I want the raw data, to read with my own eyes where and how they have conducted a double-blind study with a sufficient amount of children who are vaccinated against non-vaccinated. I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap...actually tell me where I can find credible info where putting these toxins into your body are safe. 

In regards to herd immunity, Let me clarify---I believe in a natural herd immunity occurring when people get the disease and fight it off on their own. The disease eventualy dissapates and never returns again, unless unleashed intentionally. Vaccine infuced herd immunity does not work the same. There are still outbreaks in almost fully vaccinated populations and the same diseases come back to haunt us year after year stronger because of mutations (pertussis for example). 
You asked for my credible research and all I can do is point you to a few books I have read if your are interested, as well of sites I have visited to get information; I guess I can compose a list of journal articles and studies as well that I have read but it may be easier to point you to a site that has them all already listed. To get these articles and studies, one just needs a library card to any university, a librarian can help you log into various medical databases for free--that's what I did.


----------



## JleStar

Foogirl said:


> I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.

Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degree


----------



## Eternal

JleStar said:


> It is my understanding eternal that we are both fighting the same battle...we both have good intentions in continuing this conversation. I like you don't want "our children" injured or suffering. I like you am a mother. I love my baby boy so much that I spend time late at night researching and reading about vacinne safety and effectiveness. I have not vaccinated yet because there are no studies that show vaccines to be safe and effective. If there is one, please point me in that direction. I am not interested in the CDC, FDA, or aap opinions or interpretations of studies....I want the raw data, to read with my own eyes where and how they have conducted a double-blind study with a sufficient amount of children who are vaccinated against non-vaccinated. I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap...actually tell me where I can find credible info where putting these toxins into your body are safe.
> 
> In regards to herd immunity, Let me clarify---I believe in a natural herd immunity occurring when people get the disease and fight it off on their own. The disease eventualy dissapates and never returns again, unless unleashed intentionally. Vaccine infuced herd immunity does not work the same. There are still outbreaks in almost fully vaccinated populations and the same diseases come back to haunt us year after year stronger because of mutations (pertussis for example).
> You asked for my credible research and all I can do is point you to a few books I have read if your are interested, as well of sites I have visited to get information; I guess I can compose a list of journal articles and studies as well that I have read but it may be easier to point you to a site that has them all already listed. To get these articles and studies, one just needs a library card to any university, a librarian can help you log into various medical databases for free--that's what I did.

It would be unethical to do an double blind study as that leaves kids exposed to these diseases, no drug company would let. Children die of these diseases to prove a point.


----------



## peanut56

JleStar said:


> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.
> 
> Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degreeClick to expand...


What's your point? Sure, some people vaccinate blindly, and some don't. 
And some people don't vaccinate because so and so said it'll cause autism. 
There are people on both sides of this argument who do things blindly, and who research and do their homework before deciding. So I don't understand why you are pushing the "vaccinate blindly" point.


----------



## JleStar

peanut56 said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.
> 
> Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degreeClick to expand...
> 
> 
> What's your point? Sure, some people vaccinate blindly, and some don't.
> And some people don't vaccinate because so and so said it'll cause autism.
> There are people on both sides of this argument who do things blindly, and who research and do their homework before deciding. So I don't understand why you are pushing the "vaccinate blindly" point.Click to expand...

Once you put it in you can't take it out. I find it easier to vaccinate then not to...only because you will have the backing of your doctor the FDA CDC aap and most of society. That's why I am having trouble figuring out what I will do with my LO. It's scary on both ends. I don't blame anyone for vaccinating---I don't necessarily want my child to contract a childhood disease but I also don't want to fill him with known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins that may cause even more damage in the long run (even death) then say getting measles would. It's all a risk assessment. Outweigh the potential risk of the disease vs. the risks the vaccines can bring. I am still undecided. I am leaning more towards giving LO some but not all vaccines and also spreading them out over a long period of time.


----------



## JleStar

Eternal said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> It is my understanding eternal that we are both fighting the same battle...we both have good intentions in continuing this conversation. I like you don't want "our children" injured or suffering. I like you am a mother. I love my baby boy so much that I spend time late at night researching and reading about vacinne safety and effectiveness. I have not vaccinated yet because there are no studies that show vaccines to be safe and effective. If there is one, please point me in that direction. I am not interested in the CDC, FDA, or aap opinions or interpretations of studies....I want the raw data, to read with my own eyes where and how they have conducted a double-blind study with a sufficient amount of children who are vaccinated against non-vaccinated. I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap...actually tell me where I can find credible info where putting these toxins into your body are safe.
> 
> In regards to herd immunity, Let me clarify---I believe in a natural herd immunity occurring when people get the disease and fight it off on their own. The disease eventualy dissapates and never returns again, unless unleashed intentionally. Vaccine infuced herd immunity does not work the same. There are still outbreaks in almost fully vaccinated populations and the same diseases come back to haunt us year after year stronger because of mutations (pertussis for example).
> You asked for my credible research and all I can do is point you to a few books I have read if your are interested, as well of sites I have visited to get information; I guess I can compose a list of journal articles and studies as well that I have read but it may be easier to point you to a site that has them all already listed. To get these articles and studies, one just needs a library card to any university, a librarian can help you log into various medical databases for free--that's what I did.
> 
> It would be unethical to do an double blind study as that leaves kids exposed to these diseases, no drug company would let. Children die of these diseases to prove a point.Click to expand...

In regards to not vaccinating being unethical---it's a matter of opinion. I find tha vaccinating (from what I have seen) is unethical to the amount we do today. There are also others who have religious and philosophical reasons why they wouldn't vaccinate. Why not ask them to participate in the studies? Having a study like that may prove once and for all the efficacy and safety and of vaccines. 
But that study study may never be conducted.... I ask why? Because we the people have blindly accepted vaccines without proof! We have not demanded it! I want to so badly believe in vaccines but I cant at the moment. 
Check out nvic.org for vaccine info
Thinktwice.com
Book--The vaccine manual
I have more if anyone is interested.

God bless you all! May we find the truth and prevail in protecting our children. 

I apologize I anyone is offended by what I have said. I only hav good intentions and am search for the truth about this issue.


----------



## fluffpuffin

JleStar said:


> It is my understanding eternal that we are both fighting the same battle...we both have good intentions in continuing this conversation. I like you don't want "our children" injured or suffering. I like you am a mother. I love my baby boy so much that I spend time late at night researching and reading about vacinne safety and effectiveness. I have not vaccinated yet because there are no studies that show vaccines to be safe and effective. If there is one, please point me in that direction. I am not interested in the CDC, FDA, or aap opinions or interpretations of studies....I want the raw data, to read with my own eyes where and how they have conducted a double-blind study with a sufficient amount of children who are vaccinated against non-vaccinated. I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap...actually tell me where I can find credible info where putting these toxins into your body are safe.
> 
> In regards to herd immunity, Let me clarify---I believe in a natural herd immunity occurring when people get the disease and fight it off on their own. The disease eventualy dissapates and never returns again, unless unleashed intentionally. Vaccine infuced herd immunity does not work the same. There are still outbreaks in almost fully vaccinated populations and the same diseases come back to haunt us year after year stronger because of mutations (pertussis for example).
> You asked for my credible research and all I can do is point you to a few books I have read if your are interested, as well of sites I have visited to get information; I guess I can compose a list of journal articles and studies as well that I have read but it may be easier to point you to a site that has them all already listed. To get these articles and studies, one just needs a library card to any university, a librarian can help you log into various medical databases for free--that's what I did.

Part of my proof is that small pox killed lots of people. once a vaccine was found it eradicated the disease. Pure chance? I don't think so!! 

The toxic ingredients in vaccines can also be ingested in other ways in higher quantities than found in vaccines, i.e. mercury in fish. It's such a small volume and in a vaccine and the amounts given so miniscule that personally I think a potential risk the ingredients could have would outweigh the risk of the disease.

As for aborted fetal tissue, that's where in some cases the antibodies / virus were derived from and they aren't contained in the actual vaccines.


----------



## suzib76

JleStar said:


> peanut56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.
> 
> Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degreeClick to expand...
> 
> 
> What's your point? Sure, some people vaccinate blindly, and some don't.
> And some people don't vaccinate because so and so said it'll cause autism.
> There are people on both sides of this argument who do things blindly, and who research and do their homework before deciding. So I don't understand why you are pushing the "vaccinate blindly" point.Click to expand...
> 
> Once you put it in you can't take it out. I find it easier to vaccinate then not to...only because you will have the backing of your doctor the FDA CDC aap and most of society. That's why I am having trouble figuring out what I will do with my LO. It's scary on both ends. I don't blame anyone for vaccinating---*I don't necessarily want my child to contract a childhood disease *but I also don't want to fill him with known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins that may cause even more damage in the long run (even death) then say getting measles would. It's all a risk assessment. Outweigh the potential risk of the disease vs. the risks the vaccines can bring. I am still undecided. I am leaning more towards giving LO some but not all vaccines and also spreading them out over a long period of time.Click to expand...

This goes against everything you have debated during this thread. If you didnt necessarily want him to catch a childhood disease why would you be pro exposing to chicken pox? Surely if that we the case you would neither vaccinate nor expose, just as I have done. All 3 of mine naturally caught chicken pox.


----------



## JleStar

suzib76 said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peanut56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.
> 
> Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degreeClick to expand...
> 
> 
> What's your point? Sure, some people vaccinate blindly, and some don't.
> And some people don't vaccinate because so and so said it'll cause autism.
> There are people on both sides of this argument who do things blindly, and who research and do their homework before deciding. So I don't understand why you are pushing the "vaccinate blindly" point.Click to expand...
> 
> Once you put it in you can't take it out. I find it easier to vaccinate then not to...only because you will have the backing of your doctor the FDA CDC aap and most of society. That's why I am having trouble figuring out what I will do with my LO. It's scary on both ends. I don't blame anyone for vaccinating---*I don't necessarily want my child to contract a childhood disease *but I also don't want to fill him with known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins that may cause even more damage in the long run (even death) then say getting measles would. It's all a risk assessment. Outweigh the potential risk of the disease vs. the risks the vaccines can bring. I am still undecided. I am leaning more towards giving LO some but not all vaccines and also spreading them out over a long period of time.Click to expand...
> 
> This goes against everything you have debated during this thread. If you didnt necessarily want him to catch a childhood disease why would you be pro exposing to chicken pox? Surely if that we the case you would neither vaccinate nor expose, just as I have done. All 3 of mine naturally caught chicken pox.Click to expand...

No one wants their child to be sick or suffer..with the case of the chickenpox I still would expose them to it rather then vaccinating. Like I stated earlier IMO chickenpox was manageable.


----------



## JleStar

fluffpuffin said:


> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> It is my understanding eternal that we are both fighting the same battle...we both have good intentions in continuing this conversation. I like you don't want "our children" injured or suffering. I like you am a mother. I love my baby boy so much that I spend time late at night researching and reading about vacinne safety and effectiveness. I have not vaccinated yet because there are no studies that show vaccines to be safe and effective. If there is one, please point me in that direction. I am not interested in the CDC, FDA, or aap opinions or interpretations of studies....I want the raw data, to read with my own eyes where and how they have conducted a double-blind study with a sufficient amount of children who are vaccinated against non-vaccinated. I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap...actually tell me where I can find credible info where putting these toxins into your body are safe.
> 
> In regards to herd immunity, Let me clarify---I believe in a natural herd immunity occurring when people get the disease and fight it off on their own. The disease eventualy dissapates and never returns again, unless unleashed intentionally. Vaccine infuced herd immunity does not work the same. There are still outbreaks in almost fully vaccinated populations and the same diseases come back to haunt us year after year stronger because of mutations (pertussis for example).
> You asked for my credible research and all I can do is point you to a few books I have read if your are interested, as well of sites I have visited to get information; I guess I can compose a list of journal articles and studies as well that I have read but it may be easier to point you to a site that has them all already listed. To get these articles and studies, one just needs a library card to any university, a librarian can help you log into various medical databases for free--that's what I did.
> 
> Part of my proof is that small pox killed lots of people. once a vaccine was found it eradicated the disease. Pure chance? I don't think so!!
> 
> The toxic ingredients in vaccines can also be ingested in other ways in higher quantities than found in vaccines, i.e. mercury in fish. It's such a small volume and in a vaccine and the amounts given so miniscule that personally I think a potential risk the ingredients could have would outweigh the risk of the disease.
> 
> As for aborted fetal tissue, that's where in some cases the antibodies / virus were derived from and they aren't contained in the actual vaccines.Click to expand...

Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told. Any amount of mercury is poisonous.


----------



## JleStar

Good luck to all of you. I will not be back I think. I have a headache now. It's not easy being one against many. I thank you for all your input sincerely. We all can learn from one another. All truth passes through 3 stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Peace!


----------



## robinator

I had the pox when I was 14, no complications here. Wasn't fun though.

As for the OP question, I can't say YAY or NAY. But I can say I DON'T KNOW. Sorry, but I can't tell the future and it would really depend on a zillion factors going on in our life. Given the opportunity to attend such a fun filled event, we'd have to weigh where Lane is health-wise, school-wise, is it convenient (seriously, like are we about to go on a vacation? will it be Christmas when it hits her?), what my current thoughts are on the matter, etc. Lots of factors.


----------



## suzib76

JleStar said:


> suzib76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peanut56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foogirl said:
> 
> 
> I have never, once seen a credible article for the issues with vaccinations. I also know that millions of children for decades have had them with no serious side effects . I weighed those two things together and vaccinated. To my mind of she was going to be affected by a vaccine, she was equally as likely to suffer a reaction to any of the diseases. Does that mean I did it blindly? Probably. Do I give a toss? Not really. As far as I'm concerned, her own doctor gives me better advice than doctor Google. I'll listen to him before I trawl the internet for "vaccine serious side effects" As has been said, I have limited access to any of the pubmed data and that would be the only thing worth looking at. On the flip side I know that those who recommend vaccines do have access to that data and if they're happy to give them, I'm happy to take them.
> 
> Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degreeClick to expand...
> 
> 
> What's your point? Sure, some people vaccinate blindly, and some don't.
> And some people don't vaccinate because so and so said it'll cause autism.
> There are people on both sides of this argument who do things blindly, and who research and do their homework before deciding. So I don't understand why you are pushing the "vaccinate blindly" point.Click to expand...
> 
> Once you put it in you can't take it out. I find it easier to vaccinate then not to...only because you will have the backing of your doctor the FDA CDC aap and most of society. That's why I am having trouble figuring out what I will do with my LO. It's scary on both ends. I don't blame anyone for vaccinating---*I don't necessarily want my child to contract a childhood disease *but I also don't want to fill him with known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins that may cause even more damage in the long run (even death) then say getting measles would. It's all a risk assessment. Outweigh the potential risk of the disease vs. the risks the vaccines can bring. I am still undecided. I am leaning more towards giving LO some but not all vaccines and also spreading them out over a long period of time.Click to expand...
> 
> This goes against everything you have debated during this thread. If you didnt necessarily want him to catch a childhood disease why would you be pro exposing to chicken pox? Surely if that we the case you would neither vaccinate nor expose, just as I have done. All 3 of mine naturally caught chicken pox.Click to expand...
> 
> No one wants their child to be sick or suffer..with the case of the chickenpox I still would expose them to it rather then vaccinating. Like I stated earlier IMO chickenpox was manageable.Click to expand...

But there were not 2 choices involved. There were 3.

Exposé. Don't expose. Vaccinate.


----------



## fluffpuffin

JleStar said:


> fluffpuffin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JleStar said:
> 
> 
> It is my understanding eternal that we are both fighting the same battle...we both have good intentions in continuing this conversation. I like you don't want "our children" injured or suffering. I like you am a mother. I love my baby boy so much that I spend time late at night researching and reading about vacinne safety and effectiveness. I have not vaccinated yet because there are no studies that show vaccines to be safe and effective. If there is one, please point me in that direction. I am not interested in the CDC, FDA, or aap opinions or interpretations of studies....I want the raw data, to read with my own eyes where and how they have conducted a double-blind study with a sufficient amount of children who are vaccinated against non-vaccinated. I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap...actually tell me where I can find credible info where putting these toxins into your body are safe.
> 
> In regards to herd immunity, Let me clarify---I believe in a natural herd immunity occurring when people get the disease and fight it off on their own. The disease eventualy dissapates and never returns again, unless unleashed intentionally. Vaccine infuced herd immunity does not work the same. There are still outbreaks in almost fully vaccinated populations and the same diseases come back to haunt us year after year stronger because of mutations (pertussis for example).
> You asked for my credible research and all I can do is point you to a few books I have read if your are interested, as well of sites I have visited to get information; I guess I can compose a list of journal articles and studies as well that I have read but it may be easier to point you to a site that has them all already listed. To get these articles and studies, one just needs a library card to any university, a librarian can help you log into various medical databases for free--that's what I did.
> 
> Part of my proof is that small pox killed lots of people. once a vaccine was found it eradicated the disease. Pure chance? I don't think so!!
> 
> The toxic ingredients in vaccines can also be ingested in other ways in higher quantities than found in vaccines, i.e. mercury in fish. It's such a small volume and in a vaccine and the amounts given so miniscule that personally I think a potential risk the ingredients could have would outweigh the risk of the disease.
> 
> As for aborted fetal tissue, that's where in some cases the antibodies / virus were derived from and they aren't contained in the actual vaccines.Click to expand...
> 
> Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told. Any amount of mercury is poisonous.Click to expand...

It's a shame you are leaving this thread. I was not having a go, just interested in evidence to support your theory. I'm genuinely interested to hear your side of the discussion. If you don't want to carry on talking in this thread maybe pm me?

It is true that mercury is found in foods, i.e. fish. I'm just thinking you would have to do a lot of research about foods too. In fact mercury content in fish, such as tuna is way higher than in a vaccine.

I never heard that small pox being erradicated by vaccines was a lie? Care to elaborate? I'm really curious.


----------



## Foogirl

JleStar said:


> Proof that some vaccinate blindly. An admission. Its a matter of trust I guess. I trust my doctor to a certain degree

Totally missed my point there. I weighed up millions of healthy vaccinated children and the fact my doctor has access to the kind of research I'll never find late at night on google versus the fact I have never once been shown any credible link to a widespread problem with vaccinations. Personally I don't consider that blind. My "probably" was directed at the fact that you probably would.


----------



## Foogirl

fluffpuffin said:


> I never heard that small pox being erradicated by vaccines was a lie? Care to elaborate? I'm really curious.

There's a conspiracy theory that the WHO, so desperate to convince everyone to vaccinate, have lied about the fact they eradicated smallpox by calling every case to date something else when in fact it it still smallpox. I've read a few bits written here and ther about it, again never from a credible source and usually from websites full of bogus "facts" about vaccinations written by journalists and never by anyone who's been near a medical or scientific profession.


----------



## Eternal

JleStar, Ok, I have free time now to address this more fully. I don't want you to leave, I want to hear more about your opinion on this, but I can't not respond to the things you say as I don't want people to believe without reading themselves. I encourage everyone to make fully informed decisions. 

Firstly, the whole things has played exactly like it always has and fallen into the category of non-vaccinating due conspiracy theories, but ill address every point first. 

So, you don't place any credit in, the cdc? the centre for disease control and prevention? Because? Or the government department of food and drug administration (FDA)? Or the American academy of paediatrics (AAC)? So anyone who would have a interest in this type of research, that isn't a drug company? That just screams conspiracy theory, so, you think the whole of the worlds governments are drugging us so they can control us or something? Or is there some logical reason you don't trust them? I assume drug companies and the WHO fall into the category of people up you don't trust too? 

So once we eliminate all those studies which show them to be both safe and effective then we are with none. No one is going to invest millions into studying and researching vaccines when we already know the answers and those who do t believe it will never be convinced, because even if it did happen and everyone in the whole world was included to make it a big enough sample group, then the study would have to run the life time of the child, and over several generations. Even then, when we are 100s of years down the line, people will say, oh but that's just one study. 

Do you know what a double blind study is? Because you like to talk about it a lot but your answers seem to suggest you have no idea. You say, "There are also others who have religious and philosophical reasons why they wouldn't vaccinate. Why not ask them to participate in the studies? Having a study like that may prove once and for all the efficacy and safety and of vaccines." That is not a double blind study, it makes no sense and would not be accepted, I could write pages on why but surely you know why. 

On onto, and I quote " I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap"

I always get so frustrated when I read things like this, because it shows you don't even understand what they are. So ... 

MSG, is a naturally occurring amino acid, it is found in a huge quantity of food we eat, there are several "double blind studies" done on this substance which show it to be safe, it is used in vaccines to stabilise it against light, heat etc. not all vaccines contain it though. 

Aluminium? It's everywhere, no chance you have not exposed yourself to it, it's the most commonly found metal, it's in the air, water you drink, foods you eat? It's often described as remarkably un-toxic. Anyway, for its use in vaccines it's the safe, stabilises, but it's not used much, hep a and b, not in the mmr or any live virus. 

formaldehyde, this one is always chucked in, its sounds terrible doesn't it, we all know its use in preserving bodies. But it's a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, it helps in it's ability to build amino acids, amongst other things. It's not present in the MMR as that seems to be the most controversial. 

mercury? If your up all night researching this, or even spent a decent search rather than relying on conspiracy theories, and out of date ones at that, you would know that it's not present in vaccines, not anymore, this was what brought about the autism theories and such like which were extremely backwards, it was removed from vaccines at that point and not reintroduced as one, other substances have been suitably found and two, we know there is a risk of mercury poisoning, although never high enough in vaccine levels, it is present in certain types of fish such as tuna and sword fish. I believe it may still be present in some flu vaccines. Do you have any fillings then? 

aborted fetus tissue, this one always sounds nasty, no they don't, I mean to start with does that make sense? Anyone who has received blood has to be cross matched and tissue needs even more cross matching and anti rejection meds. Some vaccines have been grown on various tissues , including foetus, depends on the lab and such like, you can start a whole new bedmate into stem cells and such if you like, but no vaccine contains babies or tissues from one. 

Sv40, it's not contained in any vaccines! The story behind it is that it causes tumours, during the 1950s they were experimenting with it and the same time using monkeys kidneys in making of the polio vaccine, so it contaminated the batch. 

Other toxic crap? Come on, bring it on, lets discuss it. 

I am don't believe anything is 100% safe, there are links from vaccines to certainly diseases, rubella to arthritis in adult females for example. 

"Once you put it in you can't take it out". Same goes for the disease, once your child has it, they have it, most cases all will be fine, but Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children and in 2010, there were 139 300 measles deaths globally. 

"known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins" please can you identify these to us? It really scary when these sorts of these things are stated, but I have NEVER seen evidence, please cite/reference this information. I'm not having a go, I genuinely would like to know. 

"I apologize I anyone is offended by what I have said. I only hav good intentions and am search for the truth about this issue." No one is offended, that what we are seeking, hence why we want you to back what you say? If there was a way for us not to have a babies jabbed with a needle do you not think we would take it? Or do you think we are sadists? 

"Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told" really? You believe this? Small pox was a major killer, if it came back we would see widespread death very quickly. Of course it still exists, but in labs only. 

Please come back, we have to respond as we feel the evidence points very differently, I really want to understand. 

I went in the website and read some articles, some suggest possible correlation, none that I read prove they are cancer causing. Please tell me which studies helped you the most.


----------



## Tasha

No I wouldnt expose my children purposely at a pox party. Even if the risk of the risk of complications is small, someone has to be that child whether it be 1 in 2 or 1 in a million and I personally could not live with the guilt if my child had a complication after I exposed them to it.

freckleonear briefly touched on there possibly being different strains of chicken pox. I know a paed nurse on the highly contagious diseases ward and she believes that to be true, some times there are what seem to be really mild strains but over the past year it seems to of had a higher amount of complications than usual.

Also my cousin's complication has affected the rest of her life. She got arthritis which is an extremely rare complication but it means some days she cant get out of bed she is in that much pain. She may of got it at some point in her life, she may not, we will never know but I do know that I would feel awful if I had exposed my child to pox and it affected them like that forever.


----------



## londonangel

No way! If she catches it one day, she catches it, but I'm not going to deliberately expose her to it just so she catches it when young instead of when she's older.


----------



## babyloulou

Eternal said:


> JleStar, Ok, I have free time now to address this more fully. I don't want you to leave, I want to hear more about your opinion on this, but I can't not respond to the things you say as I don't want people to believe without reading themselves. I encourage everyone to make fully informed decisions.
> 
> Firstly, the whole things has played exactly like it always has and fallen into the category of non-vaccinating due conspiracy theories, but ill address every point first.
> 
> So, you don't place any credit in, the cdc? the centre for disease control and prevention? Because? Or the government department of food and drug administration (FDA)? Or the American academy of paediatrics (AAC)? So anyone who would have a interest in this type of research, that isn't a drug company? That just screams conspiracy theory, so, you think the whole of the worlds governments are drugging us so they can control us or something? Or is there some logical reason you don't trust them? I assume drug companies and the WHO fall into the category of people up you don't trust too?
> 
> So once we eliminate all those studies which show them to be both safe and effective then we are with none. No one is going to invest millions into studying and researching vaccines when we already know the answers and those who do t believe it will never be convinced, because even if it did happen and everyone in the whole world was included to make it a big enough sample group, then the study would have to run the life time of the child, and over several generations. Even then, when we are 100s of years down the line, people will say, oh but that's just one study.
> 
> Do you know what a double blind study is? Because you like to talk about it a lot but your answers seem to suggest you have no idea. You say, "There are also others who have religious and philosophical reasons why they wouldn't vaccinate. Why not ask them to participate in the studies? Having a study like that may prove once and for all the efficacy and safety and of vaccines." That is not a double blind study, it makes no sense and would not be accepted, I could write pages on why but surely you know why.
> 
> On onto, and I quote " I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap"
> 
> I always get so frustrated when I read things like this, because it shows you don't even understand what they are. So ...
> 
> MSG, is a naturally occurring amino acid, it is found in a huge quantity of food we eat, there are several "double blind studies" done on this substance which show it to be safe, it is used in vaccines to stabilise it against light, heat etc. not all vaccines contain it though.
> 
> Aluminium? It's everywhere, no chance you have not exposed yourself to it, it's the most commonly found metal, it's in the air, water you drink, foods you eat? It's often described as remarkably un-toxic. Anyway, for its use in vaccines it's the safe, stabilises, but it's not used much, hep a and b, not in the mmr or any live virus.
> 
> formaldehyde, this one is always chucked in, its sounds terrible doesn't it, we all know its use in preserving bodies. But it's a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, it helps in it's ability to build amino acids, amongst other things. It's not present in the MMR as that seems to be the most controversial.
> 
> mercury? If your up all night researching this, or even spent a decent search rather than relying on conspiracy theories, and out of date ones at that, you would know that it's not present in vaccines, not anymore, this was what brought about the autism theories and such like which were extremely backwards, it was removed from vaccines at that point and not reintroduced as one, other substances have been suitably found and two, we know there is a risk of mercury poisoning, although never high enough in vaccine levels, it is present in certain types of fish such as tuna and sword fish. I believe it may still be present in some flu vaccines. Do you have any fillings then?
> 
> aborted fetus tissue, this one always sounds nasty, no they don't, I mean to start with does that make sense? Anyone who has received blood has to be cross matched and tissue needs even more cross matching and anti rejection meds. Some vaccines have been grown on various tissues , including foetus, depends on the lab and such like, you can start a whole new bedmate into stem cells and such if you like, but no vaccine contains babies or tissues from one.
> 
> Sv40, it's not contained in any vaccines! The story behind it is that it causes tumours, during the 1950s they were experimenting with it and the same time using monkeys kidneys in making of the polio vaccine, so it contaminated the batch.
> 
> Other toxic crap? Come on, bring it on, lets discuss it.
> 
> I am don't believe anything is 100% safe, there are links from vaccines to certainly diseases, rubella to arthritis in adult females for example.
> 
> "Once you put it in you can't take it out". Same goes for the disease, once your child has it, they have it, most cases all will be fine, but Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children and in 2010, there were 139 300 measles deaths globally.
> 
> "known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins" please can you identify these to us? It really scary when these sorts of these things are stated, but I have NEVER seen evidence, please cite/reference this information. I'm not having a go, I genuinely would like to know.
> 
> "I apologize I anyone is offended by what I have said. I only hav good intentions and am search for the truth about this issue." No one is offended, that what we are seeking, hence why we want you to back what you say? If there was a way for us not to have a babies jabbed with a needle do you not think we would take it? Or do you think we are sadists?
> 
> "Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told" really? You believe this? Small pox was a major killer, if it came back we would see widespread death very quickly. Of course it still exists, but in labs only.
> 
> Please come back, we have to respond as we feel the evidence points very differently, I really want to understand.
> 
> I went in the website and read some articles, some suggest possible correlation, none that I read prove they are cancer causing. Please tell me which studies helped you the most.

Excellent post!! :thumbup: I wish I could copy and paste this into every vax debate I see.... X


----------



## Eternal

babyloulou said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> JleStar, Ok, I have free time now to address this more fully. I don't want you to leave, I want to hear more about your opinion on this, but I can't not respond to the things you say as I don't want people to believe without reading themselves. I encourage everyone to make fully informed decisions.
> 
> Firstly, the whole things has played exactly like it always has and fallen into the category of non-vaccinating due conspiracy theories, but ill address every point first.
> 
> So, you don't place any credit in, the cdc? the centre for disease control and prevention? Because? Or the government department of food and drug administration (FDA)? Or the American academy of paediatrics (AAC)? So anyone who would have a interest in this type of research, that isn't a drug company? That just screams conspiracy theory, so, you think the whole of the worlds governments are drugging us so they can control us or something? Or is there some logical reason you don't trust them? I assume drug companies and the WHO fall into the category of people up you don't trust too?
> 
> So once we eliminate all those studies which show them to be both safe and effective then we are with none. No one is going to invest millions into studying and researching vaccines when we already know the answers and those who do t believe it will never be convinced, because even if it did happen and everyone in the whole world was included to make it a big enough sample group, then the study would have to run the life time of the child, and over several generations. Even then, when we are 100s of years down the line, people will say, oh but that's just one study.
> 
> Do you know what a double blind study is? Because you like to talk about it a lot but your answers seem to suggest you have no idea. You say, "There are also others who have religious and philosophical reasons why they wouldn't vaccinate. Why not ask them to participate in the studies? Having a study like that may prove once and for all the efficacy and safety and of vaccines." That is not a double blind study, it makes no sense and would not be accepted, I could write pages on why but surely you know why.
> 
> On onto, and I quote " I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap"
> 
> I always get so frustrated when I read things like this, because it shows you don't even understand what they are. So ...
> 
> MSG, is a naturally occurring amino acid, it is found in a huge quantity of food we eat, there are several "double blind studies" done on this substance which show it to be safe, it is used in vaccines to stabilise it against light, heat etc. not all vaccines contain it though.
> 
> Aluminium? It's everywhere, no chance you have not exposed yourself to it, it's the most commonly found metal, it's in the air, water you drink, foods you eat? It's often described as remarkably un-toxic. Anyway, for its use in vaccines it's the safe, stabilises, but it's not used much, hep a and b, not in the mmr or any live virus.
> 
> formaldehyde, this one is always chucked in, its sounds terrible doesn't it, we all know its use in preserving bodies. But it's a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, it helps in it's ability to build amino acids, amongst other things. It's not present in the MMR as that seems to be the most controversial.
> 
> mercury? If your up all night researching this, or even spent a decent search rather than relying on conspiracy theories, and out of date ones at that, you would know that it's not present in vaccines, not anymore, this was what brought about the autism theories and such like which were extremely backwards, it was removed from vaccines at that point and not reintroduced as one, other substances have been suitably found and two, we know there is a risk of mercury poisoning, although never high enough in vaccine levels, it is present in certain types of fish such as tuna and sword fish. I believe it may still be present in some flu vaccines. Do you have any fillings then?
> 
> aborted fetus tissue, this one always sounds nasty, no they don't, I mean to start with does that make sense? Anyone who has received blood has to be cross matched and tissue needs even more cross matching and anti rejection meds. Some vaccines have been grown on various tissues , including foetus, depends on the lab and such like, you can start a whole new bedmate into stem cells and such if you like, but no vaccine contains babies or tissues from one.
> 
> Sv40, it's not contained in any vaccines! The story behind it is that it causes tumours, during the 1950s they were experimenting with it and the same time using monkeys kidneys in making of the polio vaccine, so it contaminated the batch.
> 
> Other toxic crap? Come on, bring it on, lets discuss it.
> 
> I am don't believe anything is 100% safe, there are links from vaccines to certainly diseases, rubella to arthritis in adult females for example.
> 
> "Once you put it in you can't take it out". Same goes for the disease, once your child has it, they have it, most cases all will be fine, but Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children and in 2010, there were 139 300 measles deaths globally.
> 
> "known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins" please can you identify these to us? It really scary when these sorts of these things are stated, but I have NEVER seen evidence, please cite/reference this information. I'm not having a go, I genuinely would like to know.
> 
> "I apologize I anyone is offended by what I have said. I only hav good intentions and am search for the truth about this issue." No one is offended, that what we are seeking, hence why we want you to back what you say? If there was a way for us not to have a babies jabbed with a needle do you not think we would take it? Or do you think we are sadists?
> 
> "Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told" really? You believe this? Small pox was a major killer, if it came back we would see widespread death very quickly. Of course it still exists, but in labs only.
> 
> Please come back, we have to respond as we feel the evidence points very differently, I really want to understand.
> 
> I went in the website and read some articles, some suggest possible correlation, none that I read prove they are cancer causing. Please tell me which studies helped you the most.
> 
> Excellent post!! :thumbup: I wish I could copy and paste this into every vax debate I see.... XClick to expand...

Feel free too, it took me ages to write on the iPad!


----------



## Eala

Eternal said:


> babyloulou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> JleStar, Ok, I have free time now to address this more fully. I don't want you to leave, I want to hear more about your opinion on this, but I can't not respond to the things you say as I don't want people to believe without reading themselves. I encourage everyone to make fully informed decisions.
> 
> Firstly, the whole things has played exactly like it always has and fallen into the category of non-vaccinating due conspiracy theories, but ill address every point first.
> 
> So, you don't place any credit in, the cdc? the centre for disease control and prevention? Because? Or the government department of food and drug administration (FDA)? Or the American academy of paediatrics (AAC)? So anyone who would have a interest in this type of research, that isn't a drug company? That just screams conspiracy theory, so, you think the whole of the worlds governments are drugging us so they can control us or something? Or is there some logical reason you don't trust them? I assume drug companies and the WHO fall into the category of people up you don't trust too?
> 
> So once we eliminate all those studies which show them to be both safe and effective then we are with none. No one is going to invest millions into studying and researching vaccines when we already know the answers and those who do t believe it will never be convinced, because even if it did happen and everyone in the whole world was included to make it a big enough sample group, then the study would have to run the life time of the child, and over several generations. Even then, when we are 100s of years down the line, people will say, oh but that's just one study.
> 
> Do you know what a double blind study is? Because you like to talk about it a lot but your answers seem to suggest you have no idea. You say, "There are also others who have religious and philosophical reasons why they wouldn't vaccinate. Why not ask them to participate in the studies? Having a study like that may prove once and for all the efficacy and safety and of vaccines." That is not a double blind study, it makes no sense and would not be accepted, I could write pages on why but surely you know why.
> 
> On onto, and I quote " I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap"
> 
> I always get so frustrated when I read things like this, because it shows you don't even understand what they are. So ...
> 
> MSG, is a naturally occurring amino acid, it is found in a huge quantity of food we eat, there are several "double blind studies" done on this substance which show it to be safe, it is used in vaccines to stabilise it against light, heat etc. not all vaccines contain it though.
> 
> Aluminium? It's everywhere, no chance you have not exposed yourself to it, it's the most commonly found metal, it's in the air, water you drink, foods you eat? It's often described as remarkably un-toxic. Anyway, for its use in vaccines it's the safe, stabilises, but it's not used much, hep a and b, not in the mmr or any live virus.
> 
> formaldehyde, this one is always chucked in, its sounds terrible doesn't it, we all know its use in preserving bodies. But it's a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, it helps in it's ability to build amino acids, amongst other things. It's not present in the MMR as that seems to be the most controversial.
> 
> mercury? If your up all night researching this, or even spent a decent search rather than relying on conspiracy theories, and out of date ones at that, you would know that it's not present in vaccines, not anymore, this was what brought about the autism theories and such like which were extremely backwards, it was removed from vaccines at that point and not reintroduced as one, other substances have been suitably found and two, we know there is a risk of mercury poisoning, although never high enough in vaccine levels, it is present in certain types of fish such as tuna and sword fish. I believe it may still be present in some flu vaccines. Do you have any fillings then?
> 
> aborted fetus tissue, this one always sounds nasty, no they don't, I mean to start with does that make sense? Anyone who has received blood has to be cross matched and tissue needs even more cross matching and anti rejection meds. Some vaccines have been grown on various tissues , including foetus, depends on the lab and such like, you can start a whole new bedmate into stem cells and such if you like, but no vaccine contains babies or tissues from one.
> 
> Sv40, it's not contained in any vaccines! The story behind it is that it causes tumours, during the 1950s they were experimenting with it and the same time using monkeys kidneys in making of the polio vaccine, so it contaminated the batch.
> 
> Other toxic crap? Come on, bring it on, lets discuss it.
> 
> I am don't believe anything is 100% safe, there are links from vaccines to certainly diseases, rubella to arthritis in adult females for example.
> 
> "Once you put it in you can't take it out". Same goes for the disease, once your child has it, they have it, most cases all will be fine, but Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children and in 2010, there were 139 300 measles deaths globally.
> 
> "known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins" please can you identify these to us? It really scary when these sorts of these things are stated, but I have NEVER seen evidence, please cite/reference this information. I'm not having a go, I genuinely would like to know.
> 
> "I apologize I anyone is offended by what I have said. I only hav good intentions and am search for the truth about this issue." No one is offended, that what we are seeking, hence why we want you to back what you say? If there was a way for us not to have a babies jabbed with a needle do you not think we would take it? Or do you think we are sadists?
> 
> "Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told" really? You believe this? Small pox was a major killer, if it came back we would see widespread death very quickly. Of course it still exists, but in labs only.
> 
> Please come back, we have to respond as we feel the evidence points very differently, I really want to understand.
> 
> I went in the website and read some articles, some suggest possible correlation, none that I read prove they are cancer causing. Please tell me which studies helped you the most.
> 
> Excellent post!! :thumbup: I wish I could copy and paste this into every vax debate I see.... XClick to expand...
> 
> Feel free too, it took me ages to write on the iPad!Click to expand...

I had loads of respect anyway for the post itself. To hear you typed that on an iPad, my respect just increased tenfold. I'd have gone insane typing that on a touchscreen :haha:

Oh, and the whole kerfuffle about vaccinations containing fetus cells comes from the fact that when the MMR was developed, the DNA which was used to make the rubella part of the vaccine came from cells from a pregnancy which was terminated due to the mother (and baby) being infected with rubella (the baby had no chance of survival). By today's ethical standards, this would not have been allowed. However, at the time the science was being performed it was seen as acceptable. I'm not justifying what was done at the time, nor wanting to debate that issue (as it's nothing to do with chicken pox anyway). The only reason I'm posting about this is that it does irk me when people start talking about the MMR (or any vaccine) containing dead babies, when this just isn't the case. But because there is a sliver of similarity to the truth (ie DNA of the virus did come from a terminated pregnancy), it gets bandied about as the whole truth :dohh:


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## fluffpuffin

I didn't have time to look things up on the subject and write down the proper research the past few days so I'm glad you did Eternal. That was a very good post. (amazed you typed that on a touch screen too)


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## Tasha

Eala, thanks for clearing that up. I felt a bit sick when I read it earlier x


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## Eternal

Eala said:


> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> babyloulou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eternal said:
> 
> 
> JleStar, Ok, I have free time now to address this more fully. I don't want you to leave, I want to hear more about your opinion on this, but I can't not respond to the things you say as I don't want people to believe without reading themselves. I encourage everyone to make fully informed decisions.
> 
> Firstly, the whole things has played exactly like it always has and fallen into the category of non-vaccinating due conspiracy theories, but ill address every point first.
> 
> So, you don't place any credit in, the cdc? the centre for disease control and prevention? Because? Or the government department of food and drug administration (FDA)? Or the American academy of paediatrics (AAC)? So anyone who would have a interest in this type of research, that isn't a drug company? That just screams conspiracy theory, so, you think the whole of the worlds governments are drugging us so they can control us or something? Or is there some logical reason you don't trust them? I assume drug companies and the WHO fall into the category of people up you don't trust too?
> 
> So once we eliminate all those studies which show them to be both safe and effective then we are with none. No one is going to invest millions into studying and researching vaccines when we already know the answers and those who do t believe it will never be convinced, because even if it did happen and everyone in the whole world was included to make it a big enough sample group, then the study would have to run the life time of the child, and over several generations. Even then, when we are 100s of years down the line, people will say, oh but that's just one study.
> 
> Do you know what a double blind study is? Because you like to talk about it a lot but your answers seem to suggest you have no idea. You say, "There are also others who have religious and philosophical reasons why they wouldn't vaccinate. Why not ask them to participate in the studies? Having a study like that may prove once and for all the efficacy and safety and of vaccines." That is not a double blind study, it makes no sense and would not be accepted, I could write pages on why but surely you know why.
> 
> On onto, and I quote " I want you to point be in the direction of why anyone would ever inject into their bodies MSG, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetus tissue, sv40 virus, amongst many other toxic crap"
> 
> I always get so frustrated when I read things like this, because it shows you don't even understand what they are. So ...
> 
> MSG, is a naturally occurring amino acid, it is found in a huge quantity of food we eat, there are several "double blind studies" done on this substance which show it to be safe, it is used in vaccines to stabilise it against light, heat etc. not all vaccines contain it though.
> 
> Aluminium? It's everywhere, no chance you have not exposed yourself to it, it's the most commonly found metal, it's in the air, water you drink, foods you eat? It's often described as remarkably un-toxic. Anyway, for its use in vaccines it's the safe, stabilises, but it's not used much, hep a and b, not in the mmr or any live virus.
> 
> formaldehyde, this one is always chucked in, its sounds terrible doesn't it, we all know its use in preserving bodies. But it's a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, it helps in it's ability to build amino acids, amongst other things. It's not present in the MMR as that seems to be the most controversial.
> 
> mercury? If your up all night researching this, or even spent a decent search rather than relying on conspiracy theories, and out of date ones at that, you would know that it's not present in vaccines, not anymore, this was what brought about the autism theories and such like which were extremely backwards, it was removed from vaccines at that point and not reintroduced as one, other substances have been suitably found and two, we know there is a risk of mercury poisoning, although never high enough in vaccine levels, it is present in certain types of fish such as tuna and sword fish. I believe it may still be present in some flu vaccines. Do you have any fillings then?
> 
> aborted fetus tissue, this one always sounds nasty, no they don't, I mean to start with does that make sense? Anyone who has received blood has to be cross matched and tissue needs even more cross matching and anti rejection meds. Some vaccines have been grown on various tissues , including foetus, depends on the lab and such like, you can start a whole new bedmate into stem cells and such if you like, but no vaccine contains babies or tissues from one.
> 
> Sv40, it's not contained in any vaccines! The story behind it is that it causes tumours, during the 1950s they were experimenting with it and the same time using monkeys kidneys in making of the polio vaccine, so it contaminated the batch.
> 
> Other toxic crap? Come on, bring it on, lets discuss it.
> 
> I am don't believe anything is 100% safe, there are links from vaccines to certainly diseases, rubella to arthritis in adult females for example.
> 
> "Once you put it in you can't take it out". Same goes for the disease, once your child has it, they have it, most cases all will be fine, but Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children and in 2010, there were 139 300 measles deaths globally.
> 
> "known carcinogenic and damaging neurological toxins" please can you identify these to us? It really scary when these sorts of these things are stated, but I have NEVER seen evidence, please cite/reference this information. I'm not having a go, I genuinely would like to know.
> 
> "I apologize I anyone is offended by what I have said. I only hav good intentions and am search for the truth about this issue." No one is offended, that what we are seeking, hence why we want you to back what you say? If there was a way for us not to have a babies jabbed with a needle do you not think we would take it? Or do you think we are sadists?
> 
> "Small pox being eradicated by vaccines is one of the greatest lies ever told" really? You believe this? Small pox was a major killer, if it came back we would see widespread death very quickly. Of course it still exists, but in labs only.
> 
> Please come back, we have to respond as we feel the evidence points very differently, I really want to understand.
> 
> I went in the website and read some articles, some suggest possible correlation, none that I read prove they are cancer causing. Please tell me which studies helped you the most.
> 
> Excellent post!! :thumbup: I wish I could copy and paste this into every vax debate I see.... XClick to expand...
> 
> Feel free too, it took me ages to write on the iPad!Click to expand...
> 
> I had loads of respect anyway for the post itself. To hear you typed that on an iPad, my respect just increased tenfold. I'd have gone insane typing that on a touchscreen :haha:
> 
> Oh, and the whole kerfuffle about vaccinations containing fetus cells comes from the fact that when the MMR was developed, the DNA which was used to make the rubella part of the vaccine came from cells from a pregnancy which was terminated due to the mother (and baby) being infected with rubella (the baby had no chance of survival). By today's ethical standards, this would not have been allowed. However, at the time the science was being performed it was seen as acceptable. I'm not justifying what was done at the time, nor wanting to debate that issue (as it's nothing to do with chicken pox anyway). The only reason I'm posting about this is that it does irk me when people start talking about the MMR (or any vaccine) containing dead babies, when this just isn't the case. But because there is a sliver of similarity to the truth (ie DNA of the virus did come from a terminated pregnancy), it gets bandied about as the whole truth :dohh:Click to expand...

Thanks for helping to clarify that, I found it difficult to word :flower:


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## meldmac

Wow Eternal you are amazing! I would never have the patience to type that on my ipad!


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## Eternal

Hubby has ps3 games for Christmas and I have a cold so just came up to bed and write it, it was peaceful, compared with the war zone downstairs.

Plus laptop and I have issues, It doesn't like me, so we avoid each other as much as possible :haha: I have in the past threatened to throw it out if the window, which might explain why :blush:


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## PepsiChic

Well thank you for taking the time to write out such a thorough reply in this thread, it was a very interesting and informative read!


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## JleStar

Curiosity got the best of me and as you all see I am back. I feel the eye rolling already lol. I am responding because some posters wanted to hear more information fom my perspective. I will be glad to elaborate more as well as respond to eternal's post. Eternal, one thing we have in common for sure is that we are patient (I am assuming) and gluttons for punishment---I too am typing on an iPad :). I agree with other posters your reply was quite thorough but of course me being me and having my perpesvtive on things I must respectfully disagree with a lot you have stated. I defintly could not in good conscious leave this thread without giving more info for viewers to ponder and decide for themselves. Like they say, there are two sides to the story and then there's the truth. I however will not do that right now. But I will be back when I have a free moment from my LO and am abke to get to my desk top.


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## Eternal

JleStar said:


> Curiosity got the best of me and as you all see I am back. I feel the eye rolling already lol. I am responding because some posters wanted to hear more information fom my perspective. I will be glad to elaborate more as well as respond to eternal's post. Eternal, one thing we have in common for sure is that we are patient (I am assuming) and gluttons for punishment---I too am typing on an iPad :). I agree with other posters your reply was quite thorough but of course me being me and having my perpesvtive on things I must respectfully disagree with a lot you have stated. I defintly could not in good conscious leave this thread without giving more info for viewers to ponder and decide for themselves. Like they say, there are two sides to the story and then there's the truth. I however will not do that right now. But I will be back when I have a free moment from my LO and am abke to get to my desk top.

As I stated I want to hear your side.:flower:


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## Natsku

Bumping cos I wanna hear what JleStar has to say


Also just read something that really tells me that vaccinations have a huge effect on disease prevalence. The MMR was introduced here in Finland in 1982 and 12 years later those diseases were *eliminated* from the country! To put it in perspective the rates have gone from (pre-MMR) 105, 43 and 64 per 100,000 to 0.1 per 100,000 (the odd case occurs from abroad coming into the country and the very rare occasion of vaccine failure (8 cases).

Downside is the immunity wanes and people might need boosters as adults, at least in the case of an outbreak.


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