# Pathetic... Doesn't want to work because...



## CaptainMummy

"Then he will only see her at weekends..."

My LOs dad moans that 3 nights a week isnt enough (this is what he gets her for)... He still hasnt got over our split and constantly tries to talk me into going back, which I am not doing. He always complains that he doesnt see her enough... and the days he doesnt watch her he is so down. 

I suggested doing something to take his mind off it, he automatically said "are you trying to say Im a bad person just because I dont work?"... I wasnt saying that, but I did say that he could get a job, and his reply was he wasnt going to get a job because then he wouldnt see LO as much. I think thats pathetic!

He is being selfish and totally not thinking about our daughter. If he worked, he would have a feeling of self worth, and knowing that he was providing for hsi daughter would make him feel better, and he could cherish the time he got with her even more. Im not saying that he is terrible because he doesnt have a job, but I think he should stop being so selfish. He always asks me "would you want to work mon-fri and only see her at the weekends?" I reply no, but Im her mother and to me thats different (I dont know if it is, but I definitely couldnt imagine only seeing her 2 nights a week)

I got myself a part time job, working Wed/Thurs nights which is 15 hours a week, and I feel great about it. I have more money to put away for LO, and it means that I have something to concentrate on when shes with her daddy.

Sorry for the long rant, but I just think his line of thought is a bit silly!


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## angelpkj

oh god i hate fobs like this 
what about you if he sees lo 3 times a week u see lo 4 times 
you cant get more fairer than that!
id tell him look if you dont like it i suggest you speak to a solicitor and find out how reasonable i'm allready being 

he'd prob get less if it went to court!


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## Yorkshiredad

Without wanting to play devil's advocate, why does it make a difference that you're your little one's mother in regards to who sees her 2 days out of 7?

I guess I'm in a unique situation, but the one thing that aggravates me most is when people say "But I'm his/her mother" in response to something. A child needs a parent, regardless of gender


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## moomin_troll

I don't think it makes a difference being a mum or dad, not seeing ur child every second of the day is going to be hard.
Id probably split who has her 50/50 n then he can't moan 

Is there even a reason he's not working tho? He in earth does he think his daughter is fed and clothed if he's not willing to get off his ass n pay for her


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## xxsteffyxx

Same as Harvey's dad... he feels as though he cannot get a job because he then wont see Harvey - he doesn't see Harvey anyway????


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## Laura2919

Personally I do think it is different between a mum and a dad. FOB goes 12 days between seeing his kids I could NEVER go that long. He phones twice a week at the most, sometimes he only calls because he has something to say to me i.e CSA or something else! 

I've not stopped him seeing the girls in between he chooses not to! What can I do about that? Nothing. 

Your FOB clearly wants to spend time with his child but what he gets is more than a court would give him and is this going to be forever? like when she starts school? It is whats beneficial for the child not just the parents.

Parenting is very rarely split 50/50!


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## teal

In my experience there is a difference between a mum and a dad. FOB has never met his child (his choice). He broke up with me because I refused to have a termination. So to me there is a massive difference - he walked away and got on with his life whereas I work part time to support my child on my own. 

It is good that he wants to see his child but I don't get why he can't just get a part time job. Also agree with Laura that it might not work out in the long term with school etc. 

xx


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## xxsteffyxx

I work 2 jobs to support my son, one full time 40 hour a week jon and another 12 job in a bar at weekends. I also have never denied access, but he chooses not to work, there is no reason for him not to.


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## moomin_troll

Laura2919 said:


> Personally I do think it is different between a mum and a dad. FOB goes 12 days between seeing his kids I could NEVER go that long. He phones twice a week at the most, sometimes he only calls because he has something to say to me i.e CSA or something else!
> 
> I've not stopped him seeing the girls in between he chooses not to! What can I do about that? Nothing.
> 
> Your FOB clearly wants to spend time with his child but what he gets is more than a court would give him and is this going to be forever? like when she starts school? It is whats beneficial for the child not just the parents.
> 
> Parenting is very rarely split 50/50!

Yeah but ur ex isn't every man. Ofcourse between u and him there is a difference but some fathers couldn't be away from their children that long


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## Laura2919

moomin_troll said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> Personally I do think it is different between a mum and a dad. FOB goes 12 days between seeing his kids I could NEVER go that long. He phones twice a week at the most, sometimes he only calls because he has something to say to me i.e CSA or something else!
> 
> I've not stopped him seeing the girls in between he chooses not to! What can I do about that? Nothing.
> 
> Your FOB clearly wants to spend time with his child but what he gets is more than a court would give him and is this going to be forever? like when she starts school? It is whats beneficial for the child not just the parents.
> 
> Parenting is very rarely split 50/50!
> 
> Yeah but ur ex isn't every man. Ofcourse between u and him there is a difference but some fathers couldn't be away from their children that longClick to expand...

I never said my ex is every man. Your talking like he doesn't see his LO. He sees her more than most fathers see their children. Sharing custody is not easy. I'm sorry the bond between a mother and her child is completely different to a bond between a father and his child. He has his daughter three times a week how much more should she have to give up in order to make him happy? He's doing it to spite her.

When a relationship breaks down there are things you have to do that you don't like, it doesn't matter who ended it, who walked out or who upped and left. I have to hand my children over to be cared for by another woman for a few days and nights every other weekend. I hate the thought of some other woman being around MY children. But the point is you haven't got a choice but to accept certain things. 

Its never clean cut, its never easy, there is always something that makes you feel uneasy but the point I am making was if he went to court he'd get laughed at. He gets more than the average contact and to ask for more is just quite frankly a joke.


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## Yorkshiredad

Laura2919 said:


> I'm sorry the bond between a mother and her child is completely different to a bond between a father and his child.

Different? yes possibly to an extent, stronger or more important? Absolutely not.

One thing I absolutely loathe is people making out that because I have a penis my bond or relationship with my son isn't as important as it would be were I born with a vagina.

I understand that it's more common for men to skip out on their kids, but there are men (I include myself in this bracket) who devote their entire lives to their children and yet it's automatically assumed that we can happily go about our lives only see them every other weekend.


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## moomin_troll

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> I'm sorry the bond between a mother and her child is completely different to a bond between a father and his child.
> 
> Different? yes possibly to an extent, stronger or more important? Absolutely not.
> 
> One thing I absolutely loathe is people making out that because I have a penis my bond or relationship with my son isn't as important as it would be were I born with a vagina.
> 
> I understand that it's more common for men to skip out on their kids, but there are men (I include myself in this bracket) who devote their entire lives to their children and yet it's automatically assumed that we can happily go about our lives only see them every other weekend.Click to expand...

My point exactly!
Zane was far closer to his dad then me and Zane were.
It depends on the dad himself 

Back to the OP I agree ur ex is being a douche! He should just spend time with lo instead of moaning its not enough and he should go out and get a job. 
My dad never bothered with me so it is nice to see a dad actually wanting to see his child even tho he is being annoying


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## Laura2919

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> I'm sorry the bond between a mother and her child is completely different to a bond between a father and his child.
> 
> Different? yes possibly to an extent, stronger or more important? Absolutely not.
> 
> One thing I absolutely loathe is people making out that because I have a penis my bond or relationship with my son isn't as important as it would be were I born with a vagina.
> 
> I understand that it's more common for men to skip out on their kids, but there are men (I include myself in this bracket) who devote their entire lives to their children and yet it's automatically assumed that we can happily go about our lives only see them every other weekend.Click to expand...

Did I ever say that men can automatically go about their lives happily. No. And yes a bond IS different! We carry that child for 9 or so months, a mothers bond is different to a fathers bond. I personally don't care if you think different. I know dads that are away from their children and they hate that fact but even they agree that taking a child away from its mother for longer than a few nights a week wouldn't be beneficial to their child/ren!!! 

Don't put words into my mouth. I haven't said dads happily go about their lives with only seeing their children often but like I said sometimes when a relationship breaks down there are things we don't like that have to be done!

Oh and read again! Not once did I say a fathers relationship with a child is less important I said it is DIFFERENT.


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## Yorkshiredad

Laura2919 said:


> Did I ever say that men can automatically go about their lives happily. No. And yes a bond IS different! We carry that child for 9 or so months, a mothers bond is different to a fathers bond. I personally don't care if you think different. I know dads that are away from their children and they hate that fact but even they agree that taking a child away from its mother for longer than a few nights a week wouldn't be beneficial to their child/ren!!!
> 
> Don't put words into my mouth. I haven't said dads happily go about their lives with only seeing their children often but like I said sometimes when a relationship breaks down there are things we don't like that have to be done!
> 
> Oh and read again! Not once did I say a fathers relationship with a child is less important I said it is DIFFERENT.

My apologies if I offended you, I was just trying to state that it pisses me off that "society" assumes a child is better of with it's mother being the primary parent when that isn't always the case.

However, answer me this, if a child has 2 parents that are both equally capable of caring for it, both can provide a roof over it's head and food in it's mouth, which parent should be the primary parent (Ie; have him/her 5 out of 7 days)?


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## Donna35

I have to say I agree with Laura. A mother/child bond is completely different to a father/child one. Not more important but different, as both she and the OP said...

A mother/child bond is "in the main" stronger too, not always, but in most cases I find. This is because we carry them for 9 months, we nurture them and look after them and the responsibility for the child "in MOST cases" will fall down to the mother. Plus of course there is the fact that "most" children will turn to their mother for comfort etc. Some fathers leave, some don't give a shit about their kids, some are good fathers whether they are there or not - all are different. But none can replace the mother/child bond - that is just MY opinion btw xxx

I know there are some exceptions to this - hence why I put "most"


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## Yorkshiredad

Donna35 said:


> Some fathers leave, some don't give a shit about their kids, some are good fathers whether they are there or not - all are different.

That's also true for mothers, it's just not as publicized. There's a social taboo for women to abandon their kids (as there should be for men too), or even be the "secondary" parent, and so some stick it out regardless which in the long run is detrimental to their children.

Thank you for aknowledging that not every case is as black and white as "The child is better off with the mother".

Although I disagree about the mother/child being stronger, I think it's just a law of averages, more women are stay at home parents so more women are going to have that bond, if it was 50/50 I think it would be a lot different.


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## Donna35

And also Yorkshiredad I think what the OP means about her being the mother in relation to having the child more nights is just referring to the fact that she (I would assume) would have main custody and the child would reside with her. She is not saying that that makes her 'more important' at all just because she has 'a vagina and not a penis' as you so charmingly put it. Having a penis has nothing to do with it - that appendage has done it's job quite frankly lol. The simple fact is she is allowing more access than most courts do and for that he should be grateful really IMO.


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## teal

From on and offline it seems to be much more uncommon for a mother to abandon her children. There's also a degree of taboo for being a single mother but a single father is praised. 

I agree with Laura and Donna about the bond being stronger. From *my own* experience my baby's father has got on with his life as if it never happened. I felt a connection to my child while I was pregnant, which is something men, obviously, won't experience. Not to mention that a father has no rights to the baby at all until he/she is born. 

I am not a stay at home mum but I don't feel that worker has any detriment to my bond with my son.


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## Yorkshiredad

teal said:


> From on and offline it seems to be much more uncommon for a mother to abandon her children. There's also a degree of taboo for being a single mother but a single father is praised.
> 
> I agree with Laura and Donna about the bond being stronger. From *my own* experience my baby's father has got on with his life as if it never happened. I felt a connection to my child while I was pregnant, which is something men, obviously, won't experience. Not to mention that a father has no rights to the baby at all until he/she is born.
> 
> I am not a stay at home mum but I don't feel that worker has any detriment to my bond with my son.

This is exactly my point, every case is individual, and it's when people assume a mother's bond is always stronger that it pisses me off (I'm not suggesting the OP insinuated this, I think this whole thing has just gotten out of hand)

Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though, it gives reckless and/or selfish mothers too much opportunity to "play god"


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## MummyJade

I can only echo on what has been said by Donna Laura and Teal...

And in some cases the relationship between a child and father is less important, TO THE FATHER! Not every man wants to be part of the childs life therefore there is no relationship that would class as important...


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## Yorkshiredad

MummyJade said:


> I can only echo on what has been said by Donna Laura and Teal...
> 
> And in some cases the relationship between a child and father is less important, TO THE FATHER! Not every man wants to be part of the childs life therefore there is no relationship that would class as important...

I completely agree, the point I was making (Badly, it would appear) is that people automatically assume that a mother's bond is stronger in every scenario just because they carried the child and gave birth to it.


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## Donna35

Yorkshiredad said:


> teal said:
> 
> 
> From on and offline it seems to be much more uncommon for a mother to abandon her children. There's also a degree of taboo for being a single mother but a single father is praised.
> 
> I agree with Laura and Donna about the bond being stronger. From *my own* experience my baby's father has got on with his life as if it never happened. I felt a connection to my child while I was pregnant, which is something men, obviously, won't experience. Not to mention that a father has no rights to the baby at all until he/she is born.
> 
> I am not a stay at home mum but I don't feel that worker has any detriment to my bond with my son.
> 
> This is exactly my point, every case is individual, and it's when people assume a mother's bond is always stronger that it pisses me off (I'm not suggesting the OP insinuated this, I think this whole thing has just gotten out of hand)
> 
> *Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though,* it gives reckless and/or selfish mothers too much opportunity to "play god"Click to expand...

The bolded bit - I read something in another thread today where a poster said she had been taught by a law professor that 'With all "rights" come "obligations"' Yes the FOB has a right to the child BUT what about his obligations to the child?? I am in no way having a go at you here but you are so defensive towards this man's 'right' to see the child - what about the child's right to being supported financially by their father?? It is all too easy for men to shirk this responsibility but yet whine on about their right to have the child so many nights a week - again I don't mean you but this father in particular, and also to an extent my own FOB. He has access to our son, again more than a court would order but to further their relationship I allowed it but doesn't support him financially, never has, never worked blah blah so I can entirely see where the OP is coming from.


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## CaptainMummy

Have just looked at this thread, when I wrote it, I said nothing negative about the bond between my LO and her dad. He does love her to pieces and I know he takes good care of her. Basically, it was just a rant because he has always been lazy and never bothered getting a job. He constantly says things like "I wish I could do this/that or get her this/that" etc... but its never going to happen if he just sits and moans all day and doesnt bother to look for work.

Personally, and from what Ive heard millions of other people say, is that a child needs its mother. When I told my dad about our agreement, he was totally shocked and said that at her age, she needed me more than what she was getting (4 nights a week) or course thats not to say that it is different in some circumstances, but I know that anybody I asked would say the same, that a child needs its mother first and foremost. This does not make me selfish at all. If I was selfish, do you really think I would have just allowed him to have my LO 3 nights a week? That was very hard for me, and I certainly dont think its selfish at all.


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## Laura2919

Yorkshiredad said:



> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> Did I ever say that men can automatically go about their lives happily. No. And yes a bond IS different! We carry that child for 9 or so months, a mothers bond is different to a fathers bond. I personally don't care if you think different. I know dads that are away from their children and they hate that fact but even they agree that taking a child away from its mother for longer than a few nights a week wouldn't be beneficial to their child/ren!!!
> 
> Don't put words into my mouth. I haven't said dads happily go about their lives with only seeing their children often but like I said sometimes when a relationship breaks down there are things we don't like that have to be done!
> 
> Oh and read again! Not once did I say a fathers relationship with a child is less important I said it is DIFFERENT.
> 
> My apologies if I offended you, I was just trying to state that it pisses me off that "society" assumes a child is better of with it's mother being the primary parent when that isn't always the case.
> 
> However, answer me this, if a child has 2 parents that are both equally capable of caring for it, both can provide a roof over it's head and food in it's mouth, which parent should be the primary parent (Ie; have him/her 5 out of 7 days)?Click to expand...

The mother! Because we carried that child and we raised that child. Its been that way for years. Unless proved otherwise the child belongs with the mother. Maybe thats just because of the way its been for years and years. As the OP said a child needs its mother. 

FOB pays his maintenance money calls a couple of times a week so should he be entitled to tell me where my children go to school, what they eat, where they go and who they see? No. Because he makes no effort to be a father to those girls. Men should NOT be given the right from conception because we do all the hard work and the reap the benefits. How very unfair of you to suggest such a thing!


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## Laura2919

Yorkshiredad said:


> MummyJade said:
> 
> 
> I can only echo on what has been said by Donna Laura and Teal...
> 
> And in some cases the relationship between a child and father is less important, TO THE FATHER! Not every man wants to be part of the childs life therefore there is no relationship that would class as important...
> 
> I completely agree, the point I was making (Badly, it would appear) is that people automatically assume that a mother's bond is stronger in every scenario just because they carried the child and gave birth to it.Click to expand...

It probably is stronger because you will NEVER understand the just how precious carrying a life is, you'll never understand exactly what happens to a woman's body when they conceive a child, you will never understand just what it feels like when that tiny little life moves for the first time inside a woman nor will you ever understand that to carry a life inside a body for 9 or so months is the best gift you can ever be given. 
You might think you understand but you never will. Thats where our bonds are different. 

I look at my girls and I know I carried them, they grew inside me, they have his personality and some of his traits but it was me that enabled them to have the life they do because without my body they wouldn't be here everything you feel for your LO your ex partner probably feels double!


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## Yorkshiredad

MrsMurphy2Be said:


> Have just looked at this thread, when I wrote it, I said nothing negative about the bond between my LO and her dad. He does love her to pieces and I know he takes good care of her. Basically, it was just a rant because he has always been lazy and never bothered getting a job. He constantly says things like "I wish I could do this/that or get her this/that" etc... but its never going to happen if he just sits and moans all day and doesnt bother to look for work.
> 
> Personally, and from what Ive heard millions of other people say, is that a child needs its mother. When I told my dad about our agreement, he was totally shocked and said that at her age, she needed me more than what she was getting (4 nights a week) or course thats not to say that it is different in some circumstances, but I know that anybody I asked would say the same, that a child needs its mother first and foremost. This does not make me selfish at all. If I was selfish, do you really think I would have just allowed him to have my LO 3 nights a week? That was very hard for me, and I certainly dont think its selfish at all.

I agree with the getting a job part of your original post, I work an average 60 hour week on the weeks I don't have the little man and about half that when I do have him (I work from home and at night when he's here) so there's never an excuse not to work.

None of what I've said was aimed directly at anyone, it was more of a generalization, but I stand by my original point of a child needs a parent and not necessarily it's mother, it all depends on the circumstances.

I just hate how the mother has far more of a say in the upbringing of a child than the father, even in situations where both parents are equally able to care for said child.


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## Yorkshiredad

Laura2919 said:


> The mother! Because we carried that child and we raised that child. Its been that way for years. Unless proved otherwise the child belongs with the mother. Maybe thats just because of the way its been for years and years. As the OP said a child needs its mother.
> 
> FOB pays his maintenance money calls a couple of times a week so should he be entitled to tell me where my children go to school, what they eat, where they go and who they see? No. Because he makes no effort to be a father to those girls. Men should NOT be given the right from conception because we do all the hard work and the reap the benefits. How very unfair of you to suggest such a thing!

No offence meant to you, but this is exactly what vexes me so much. In your situation I fully accept that you should be the primary parent, if a man or woman isn't there for their kids then they should have no rights over them, but when both parents are equally capable of caring for a child and when they both devote themselves entirely to them it shouldn't be automatically assumed that the mother should be the primary parent.

I have nothing but respect for women carrying their children for 9 months, I can't even imagine how hard, both mentally and physically, this is. But that does not give a woman the right to choose if and when a father can see his children (Again, not aiming this at anyone, merely generalizing assuming both parents are equal)


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## Laura2919

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> The mother! Because we carried that child and we raised that child. Its been that way for years. Unless proved otherwise the child belongs with the mother. Maybe thats just because of the way its been for years and years. As the OP said a child needs its mother.
> 
> FOB pays his maintenance money calls a couple of times a week so should he be entitled to tell me where my children go to school, what they eat, where they go and who they see? No. Because he makes no effort to be a father to those girls. Men should NOT be given the right from conception because we do all the hard work and the reap the benefits. How very unfair of you to suggest such a thing!
> 
> No offence meant to you, but this is exactly what vexes me so much. In your situation I fully accept that you should be the primary parent, if a man or woman isn't there for their kids then they should have no rights over them, but when both parents are equally capable of caring for a child and when they both devote themselves entirely to them it shouldn't be automatically assumed that the mother should be the primary parent.
> 
> I have nothing but respect for women carrying their children for 9 months, I can't even imagine how hard, both mentally and physically, this is. But that does not give a woman the right to choose if and when a father can see his children (Again, not aiming this at anyone, merely generalizing assuming both parents are equal)Click to expand...

But it isn't about choosing when the dad sees his children a court will decide that and even then you'll be given every other weekend but surely you can't think it is beneficial for a child to spend half a week at one home and half a week at another! What about friends, family, things that are happening. It's not something that would work for many families. 

I have a friend who has her son one week and then her ex husband takes him the next week. He lives two completely seperate lives, do you think that is fair? She's forever posting status's saying she misses him and can't wait for him to be back. I wouldn't want to live like that! I'm not saying that I deserve more in life than FOB.


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## Yorkshiredad

Laura2919 said:


> But it isn't about choosing when the dad sees his children but surely you can't think it is beneficial for a child to spend half a week at one home and half a week at another! What about friends, family, things that are happening. It's not something that would work for many families.
> 
> I have a friend who has her son one week and then her ex husband takes him the next week. He lives two completely seperate lives, do you think that is fair? She's forever posting status's saying she misses him and can't wait for him to be back. I wouldn't want to live like that! I'm not saying that I deserve more in life than FOB.

It depends on each person's individual situation. It wouldn't work for everyone but that's not to say it wouldn't work for anyone. It depends on so many factors though, like how old the child is, who the primary parent was before the split, the employment situation, etc. but if all of them allow for a 50/50 split of childcare then why not take advantage of that?

Like someone said before, when a relationship ends we have to do things that we might not be happy with, and spending time apart from our children is one of those.


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## Laura2919

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> But it isn't about choosing when the dad sees his children but surely you can't think it is beneficial for a child to spend half a week at one home and half a week at another! What about friends, family, things that are happening. It's not something that would work for many families.
> 
> I have a friend who has her son one week and then her ex husband takes him the next week. He lives two completely seperate lives, do you think that is fair? She's forever posting status's saying she misses him and can't wait for him to be back. I wouldn't want to live like that! I'm not saying that I deserve more in life than FOB.
> 
> It depends on each person's individual situation. It wouldn't work for everyone but that's not to say it wouldn't work for anyone. It depends on so many factors though, like how old the child is, who the primary parent was before the split, the employment situation, etc. but if all of them allow for a 50/50 split of childcare then why not take advantage of that?
> 
> Like someone said before, when a relationship ends we have to do things that we might not be happy with, and spending time apart from our children is one of those.Click to expand...


It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy. 

Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child. 

FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids. 

Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.


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## Yorkshiredad

Laura2919 said:


> It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.
> 
> Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.
> 
> FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.
> 
> Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.

In your situation it probably is for the best, but I hope if your situation was different you would be less inclined to make such a sweeping, and small minded, generalization.


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## Laura2919

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.
> 
> Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.
> 
> FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.
> 
> Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.
> 
> In your situation it probably is for the best, but I hope if your situation was different you would be less inclined to make such a sweeping, and small minded, generalization.Click to expand...

Must be me and half this country then being that any court in the land would rule in favour of the mother too unless she was unfit. Just face it, children reside with their mother because thats life! Unfortunately as much as you don't like it its gonna take a lot more than your one man band to change it!


----------



## Donna35

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.
> 
> Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.
> 
> FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.
> 
> Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.
> 
> In your situation it probably is for the best, but I hope if your situation was different you would be less inclined to make such a sweeping, and small minded, generalization.Click to expand...

I can't see that she's generalizing here though - the way the law stands, and has done for many many years is that, except in extremely exceptional circumstances, custody is ALWAYS given to the mother. Laura is stating a fact, not generalizing.

I want to say though fair play to you for working and wanting to play a full part in your child's life - if only all men were the same but unfortunately they're not.


----------



## teal

As above really, courts would agree that the child stays with the mother. (apart from exceptional circumstances). 

It's not a sweeping generalisation, as I said previously it's much more common for fathers to walk away than a mother. Pesonally I think some of that could be because of the bond we have with our children before they are even born. 

I do think it's great you're wanting to be so involved in your childs life but unfortunately for a lot of lovely ladies on here our babies fathers just don't give a toss.


----------



## Yorkshiredad

Laura2919 said:


> Must be me and half this country then being that any court in the land would rule in favour of the mother too unless she was unfit. Just face it, children reside with their mother because thats life! Unfortunately as much as you don't like it its gonna take a lot more than your one man band to change it!





Donna35 said:


> I can't see that she's generalizing here though - the way the law stands, and has done for many many years is that, except in extremely exceptional circumstances, custody is ALWAYS given to the mother. Laura is stating a fact, not generalizing.
> 
> I want to say though fair play to you for working and wanting to play a full part in your child's life - if only all men were the same but unfortunately they're not.

Any this is exactly what's wrong with this country.

I'm going to leave my argument here by saying that this wasn't aimed at any of you, I imagine you're all doing the best for your kids, but there's something wrong with the "system" if a woman has to be a violent crackhead for a father to be classed as a more appropriate parent.


----------



## Donna35

Yorkshiredad said:


> Laura2919 said:
> 
> 
> Must be me and half this country then being that any court in the land would rule in favour of the mother too unless she was unfit. Just face it, children reside with their mother because thats life! Unfortunately as much as you don't like it its gonna take a lot more than your one man band to change it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donna35 said:
> 
> 
> I can't see that she's generalizing here though - the way the law stands, and has done for many many years is that, except in extremely exceptional circumstances, custody is ALWAYS given to the mother. Laura is stating a fact, not generalizing.
> 
> I want to say though fair play to you for working and wanting to play a full part in your child's life - if only all men were the same but unfortunately they're not.Click to expand...
> 
> Any this is exactly what's wrong with this country.
> 
> I'm going to leave my argument here by saying that this wasn't aimed at any of you, I imagine you're all doing the best for your kids, but there's something wrong with the "system" if a woman has to be a violent crackhead for a father to be classed as a more appropriate parent.Click to expand...

For the majority of children, the reason the mother has the children is quite simply that the father has not tried to get them or wanted them and in some cases doesn't give a tiny rats arse about them. Then you have the fathers who do try but the courts find it is better that the child be with the mother for whatever reason. But more and more fathers ARE being given custody of the kids whether joint or full. It entirely is based on the circumstances and not just 'the way the system works'. Yes it WAS how the system primarily worked as the mother has always been the primary caregiver and rightly so in that case. 

And still now in most cases the child will remain with the mother - as it is usually found that it's in the CHILD's best interests.


----------



## Laura2919

Do you really want to know why the children reside with their mothers because most dads up and leave without even wondering what will happen, it is not as common for a mother to do that. 

Because some men up and leave it makes it harder for all the good men like yourself to want to challenge that. Unfortunately that is the law, that is the way it works. Somethings we don't like as already said.


----------



## Laura--x

Just caught up with this! I have to say i agree with the mother/daughter bond..

I was with my babys dad for 4 years, split up when she was 6 months old because he just changed and got lazy, never bothered with the baby unless he had nothing else to do, ect ect. So since lo was 6 months i have been a single parent.

Shes now 3, and stays at her dads wednesday nights and saturday nights, 4pm-4pm. She LOVES going to her dads, usually asks to go when shes with me. I know she has loads of fun down there because he lives at home with all his family and younger children, so its one big playground there for her.

As soon as LO gets poorly,or tired, or falls over, ect ect, she wants me. Im the person she wants for comfort, fob says when shes there if she gets ill ect she asks for me. Im the person that can truely make her feel ok, give her cuddles when shes poorly, kisses her knee better when she falls over. Of course, her dad does all that too, but its me she always wants them off.

The relationship between mother/child and father/child is completely different, as the others have said. Growing up, whenever ive had problems/been ill/wanted a cuddle ect ect, ive just automatically gone to my mum. I was very close to my dad growing up too, and was pretty much a complete daddys girl, but my relationship with my mum was much more deep, whereas my dads was more playing/doing things together ect my mums was more intense.

Im chatting completely random rubbish now. Basically the bond IS different. In answer to the OP, the dad is just taking the pee imo. I wil never for the life of my understand why fathers think that not working is ok, IMO the main role for the father is to be supporting his family/child. And no, i get no money off fob either!


----------



## MommaAlexis

Personally I think the bond is stronger when they are newborns, etc. I can't say for definite when it would stop, it would depend on the mom/baby/dad in the situation. Because they were inside this person, hearing them breath, heart beating, talking, crying, laughing for nine months. They may recognize your voice at first, but they already KNOW mommy will protect them. and it's a terrible thing when their mother doesn't. After a while of having you take care of them after they're born they would trust you too! But de facto, they think mommy is the one that protects them and you're that voice they heard and the voice mommy (hopefully!) was happy when she talked to. This is my opinion, I think it's fairly logical and not the whole "I carried her, so she stays with me" I think, quite frankly until she's old enough and knows you enough to trust you 100%, the main guardian should be the mother even if both are fantastic parents and do the exact same things. If she isn't fit, and the dad is, so be it. That little bit of extra stress on the child is better in the long run. But in cases where you WILL eventually get equal rights, why cause your kid the extra stress? Just be patient, you'll know when she's ready to leave mommy for longer periods of time. I'm not talking about the parents bond with the child, but the child's bond with the parents. Two different things. I've seen dads who work waaaay harder for their babies but when they're crying the only one who can make them stop is mom. I've seen my good friend SUPER upset over this too, but in new borns, it's totally normal and logical. Mom's already proved she'll protect them, you just gotta wait until they know you will to. By feeding them, singing to them, snuggling, you'll get there. Whether it takes a month, a year or ten years.


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## dustbunny

I have to agree that the mother/baby bond is stronger than that of the father. It's nature, us ladies have gone through implantation, the pregnancy rollercoaster, the birth either vaginally or C-Section which is major abdominal surgery. We have had to watch what we eat and drink, watch our bodies pile on weight rapidly often leading to stretch marks and change in general. When the baby is born it requires skin to skin and its mothers milk. Also as a PP said it is stereotypically/traditionally that the mother quits her work and stays home to look after the children. 

A PP said about splitting time 1 week at the mothers and 1 week at the dads, to be honest I find that a bit selfish if the parents live in different areas. As the PP said the child will end up never really settling in either area but as long as both parents get equal time it seems thats OK. 

Also you are talking to women who for the majority have been let down by their FOB's and men in general. We have been left to sort out situations and deal with things on our own. There are so many threads, countless, on how FOB only stay involved to piss the mothers off and cause trouble.

And as for all Dads should have rights... from a personal point of view... even though I left FOB I did so in the hope he would grow up and sort his life out... but no. He has his mother fighting his battles for him. He hasn't sent anything since LO was born, not even a card or teddy for her. He hasn't bought anything nor sent any maintenance. This baby was planned so he has no excuse about getting used to the idea etc. He demanded I keep him up to date so he didnt have to bother getting involved, he demanded to be told when she was born and demanded ti be included in decisions... all of which he then turned his back on because I didn't tell him to phone me back or whatever... it is always my fault. He shows all the traits of a callow idiot and isn't justified in having equal rights when he has F'd off for months at a time.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I have had 3 hours sleep a night for3 weeks, am typing this one handed as I look after LO, have sore nipples from breastfeeding 24/7 and a splitting headache from worrying about the stupid threats/emotional blackmail FOBs mother has put on me.


----------



## jemmie1994

Agree completely with Laura, if i fell down and hurt myself as a kid and my dad tried to dust me off I'd scream at him 'no want mummy!' my dad is an amazing father but my mum is always the one I'd go too for comfort is just the different roles played by a mother and a father and in that respect i do think that young children need there mummy more


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## xxsteffyxx

Yorkshiredad said:


> *Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though,*

Seriously this whole 'rights' thing does my head in.

The children are the ones who have the *RIGHT*

We as parents have a *RESPONSIBLITY*


----------



## Laura2919

xxsteffyxx said:


> Yorkshiredad said:
> 
> 
> *Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though,*
> 
> Seriously this whole 'rights' thing does my head in.
> 
> The children are the ones who have the *RIGHT*
> 
> We as parents have a *RESPONSIBLITY*Click to expand...

:thumbup:


----------



## Donna35

xxsteffyxx said:


> Yorkshiredad said:
> 
> 
> *Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though,*
> 
> Seriously this whole 'rights' thing does my head in.
> 
> The children are the ones who have the *RIGHT*
> 
> We as parents have a *RESPONSIBLITY*Click to expand...

You are SO right. Why can we as mothers see the responsibilities that we have and deal with them but so many fathers only think of themselves and 'their' rights and they do not care about the child's rights. A lot of the time it's the father using the child as a pawn and just trying to get at the mother through the child - as in the case of OP


----------



## CaptainMummy

Can I just ask everyone... Do you thibk it is unfair on my LO then, that she is at her dads 3 nights a week? You all seem to be saying that they cant settle etc if time is split between 2 areas. Im not disagreeing with what anyone has said, just looking for opinions x


----------



## moomin_troll

Talk to ur ex about ow she sleeps when she's at his and how does she sleep when she's home? 
Personally I think most children adapt just fine sleeping in different homes long as the same routine is stuck to at both houses


----------



## Laura2919

moomin_troll said:


> Talk to ur ex about ow she sleeps when she's at his and how does she sleep when she's home?
> Personally I think most children adapt just fine sleeping in different homes long as the same routine is stuck to at both houses

Which is very very very rare because both parents parent differently! It's mostly always the case because we all have our ways to parent our children! There are things FOB does that I don't do and the same with him! Honestly no offence meant but your situation is different so you can't say that it would be easy.

MrsMurphy2Be, I can give you my opinion it might be different to everyone else but the three days is what you've settled on so if your happy with that and it works for all three of you then thats fine however I would not give him any more access because then he would have her more than you! I personally couldn't do three days a week, fob has the twins every other weekend. He used to do every other weekend and one day in the week and sometimes a night but when they started school I stopped that. I wanted my children to have one homelife only having to share one weekend every other. I never stopped him visiting he chose not to! He was happy with dropping the contact anyway cos it meant he wasn't weighed down by his kids and was free for even more days to act like a twat!


----------



## moomin_troll

Laura2919 said:


> moomin_troll said:
> 
> 
> Talk to ur ex about ow she sleeps when she's at his and how does she sleep when she's home?
> Personally I think most children adapt just fine sleeping in different homes long as the same routine is stuck to at both houses
> 
> Which is very very very rare because both parents parent differently! It's mostly always the case because we all have our ways to parent our children! There are things FOB does that I don't do and the same with him! Honestly no offence meant but your situation is different so you can't say that it would be easy.
> 
> MrsMurphy2Be, I can give you my opinion it might be different to everyone else but the three days is what you've settled on so if your happy with that and it works for all three of you then thats fine however I would not give him any more access because then he would have her more than you! I personally couldn't do three days a week, fob has the twins every other weekend. He used to do every other weekend and one day in the week and sometimes a night but when they started school I stopped that. I wanted my children to have one homelife only having to share one weekend every other. I never stopped him visiting he chose not to! He was happy with dropping the contact anyway cos it meant he wasn't weighed down by his kids and was free for even more days to act like a twat!Click to expand...

Yes my kids don't have a dad to go sleep over with.
I'm well aware there is different ways of parenting but where is the harm of sitting down with a ex and talking about a bedtime routine and to keep it as close as possible.

I have actually had to work with my mum about sleep routine because after my oh died I needed abit of time so Zane stayed with her so I wanted his bedtime routine to be as similar as it could be....yes my mum might not be their dad but it's still another adult with her own ways of doing things.

My mum never took us to bed growing up, she hated putting us in bed and turning off the light and walking out so from a very early age we would give her a kiss and go bed ourselfs but I wanted her to actually take Zane to bed, sit wi him and read a story.

Just because uve got problems with ur ex doesn't mean OP wouldn't be able to talk to hers and come up with something to make it easier on their child


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## Laura2919

Did I say she cant talk to him? I said people PARENT differently. Would you want to be told how to look after your child while they are in your care? I most certainly would not. If FOB came and said I want you to put the twins to bed with the light on I'd tell him where to send himself. I don't tell him what to do when he has them cos it is HIS time and clearly she's having an issue with her ex because she posted this thread :dohh: and thats your mum of course she would raise them how you want them.

Children don't adjust that easily, Chloe and Jaycee have a nightlight at FOB's and FOB and his mum don't want Jaycee wearing a nappy yet she isn't ready to be dry at night and when she comes back I get I am a big girl I don't wear a nappy so I leave one off and she wets herself when speaking to FOB he says she wets herself all the time. Mixed messages! That is what ends up happening. I don't have a nightlight because I don't want my kids to be afraid of the dark and they always mention that daddy has one for them and I have to explain that they don't need one! 
They've been doing this for 8 whole months now and still haven't settled with the different things we both do so no not all kids adapt.


----------



## moomin_troll

U really do seem to think just because i dont have a fob to worry about that my advise or opinion doesnt matter or isnt worth reading. Obviously ur going to pick everything I say apart because u don't agree with me.

I am not talking to u or giving u advise about ur situation, ur obviously very bitter towards ur fob and that's ur business.
Where did I say ALL kids adapt easily? I didn't

I have given my advise to OP and she might not take it or might not agree with me and that's up to her because I've commented on her thread.


----------



## Wobbles

MrsMurphy2Be said:


> Can I just ask everyone... Do you thibk it is unfair on my LO then, that she is at her dads 3 nights a week? You all seem to be saying that they cant settle etc if time is split between 2 areas. Im not disagreeing with what anyone has said, just looking for opinions x

I split up with the girls dad for 6 months. The kids were fine from day one. We parent different and they settled into a new home with me and daddy's new home brilliantly. They spent 2 days with their dad and when I moved because of needing to find new child care it was 3 days a week! 

The only time I found the girls were upsettled was when we the parents created personal tension around them before one or other left the others house or meeting point.


----------



## Donna35

MrsMurphy2Be said:


> Can I just ask everyone... Do you thibk it is unfair on my LO then, that she is at her dads 3 nights a week? You all seem to be saying that they cant settle etc if time is split between 2 areas. Im not disagreeing with what anyone has said, just looking for opinions x

I honestly don't know if it's unfair. I think the courts don't usually give that amount of access and that in you doing so you're being very generous to FOB. I suppose all you can do is just watch and see does she settle properly for you and ask him if she does for him. 

Does he know your routine for her and keep a very similar one? I think it would help a lot if you can agree that things are done the same or as near as so as not to confuse her.

My LO says at his dad's from Friday evening to Sunday morning. I've told him his routine etc and he does say that he follows it so all I can do is hope. JJ seems to be adjusting ok to the way things are and hopefully that continues.


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## Wobbles

It's the parents choice ... I belived it 'fair' my girls spent as close to equal time with their dad just like they did when we were together. 

No court was deciding what relationship my girls were or weren't to have with their daddy who they love greatly.

Not all routine was the same but the basics were. You have to put differences aside an disuss these between you.


----------



## lou_w34

xxsteffyxx said:


> Yorkshiredad said:
> 
> 
> *Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though,*
> 
> Seriously this whole 'rights' thing does my head in.
> 
> The children are the ones who have the *RIGHT*
> 
> We as parents have a *RESPONSIBLITY*Click to expand...

I also wanted to say that fathers should never EVER have rights from the moment of conception, because to do that would mean that they have a 'right' over the mothers body. And no person should ever have rights over another...

You cant have rights over an unborn child, as essentially they are connected to the mother. And what she chooses to do with her own body is her choice and her choice alone.

It would be like saying that all FOBs who dont pay maintenance should get a vasectomy, because they loose their right to have children when they cant take care of the ones they already have... If that makes any sense at all... i no what i mean! x


----------



## Laura2919

I never said someone's opinion doesn't matter, some people love shoving words down peoples throats. 

Anyway MrsMurphy2Be, you can only do what you think is right. We all parent differently. I disagree that children should spend equal time with their mother and father because I don't like the idea of a child having to live two seperate lives but that is just my personal view.


----------



## MumToBe2012

Yorkshiredad said:


> *Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though,*

I can't believe you think this, but then again you will never know what it's like to be pregnant for nine months. It is hard both mentally and physically. Your hormones are all over the place and then on top of that you have an ever changing body and you know what? For some people it's hard to cope with. You have to watch yourself gaining weight and if you're like me who's self conscious about their weight, then it's tough. Then you get the stretch marks, being uncomfortable- not being able to stand or sit for too long without getting uncomfortable, cramps, having to watch what you eat and having cravings that aren't always good for you, having to change your life completely if the baby wasn't planned, having to go through labour.

You have to change your lifestyle a lot in pregnancy because in that part of your life you're fragile. Something happens to the baby, who do you think most mothers will blame? Themselves even when it's not their fault. And for you to state that comment isn't fair to the women that have to go through pregnancy. Every mother and father have a right to see their child, but as the person that carries that child you can't honestly say that men should EVER have the same rights. As previous posters have said, a bond is already formed between a mother and their child, a father has to develop a bond but MOST of the time it's the mother a child wants. Also, we ALL have rights to our own bodies and NO MAN should have to control over it just because their child is growing inside. And it's because a woman has carried the child for nine months that they should have more rights to the baby. Not saying fathers shouldn't be able to see their children, but unfortanately, life isn't fair and sometimes 50/50 equality can't be done.


----------



## CaptainMummy

I will say, that paiges routine is the same with me and her dad. He always asks me about when i put her to bed etc and he tends to continue it as close as he can. She sleeps the same for him as ahe does for me, so she cant be that bothered! I definitely couldnt have her away from me anymore than that, so for the time being, i am happy enough to continue our agreement.
I live an hour away from her dad, and the ither day he told me he "didnt want her going to school over here"... Even though where i am is so much better than the shithole he lives in. He just doesnt want me to gave her mon-fri im assuming, but tough titties! We will cross that bridge when it comes!


----------



## Laura2919

Well your FOB has parental responsibility so he has a say in where she goes to school. FOB doesn't deal with the school side I do but we chose this school together as we were together when I applied. You would need to agree with him on somewhere but I don't know how your arrangement would work because its all to do with catchment areas


----------



## LadyRoy

Donna35 said:


> And also Yorkshiredad I think what the OP means about her being the mother in relation to having the child more nights is just referring to the fact that she (I would assume) would have main custody and the child would reside with her. She is not saying that that makes her 'more important' at all just because she has 'a vagina and not a penis' as you so charmingly put it. Having a penis has nothing to do with it - that appendage has done it's job quite frankly lol. The simple fact is she is allowing more access than most courts do and for that he should be grateful really IMO.

I think this is AWFUL! How can you say he should be grateful for it??? From the OP's post she left him - that means he lost his OH and his child in one fell swoop!

If anything I think the parent that leaves should have to leave their child with the other parent male or female.


----------



## teal

Completely disagree that the person who leaves should leave the child/children. It's not as simple as that. 

Relationships break down and sometimes it takes the stronger person to leave.


----------



## jemmie1994

LadyRoy said:


> I think this is AWFUL! How can you say he should be grateful for it??? From the OP's post she left him - that means he lost his OH and his child in one fell swoop!
> 
> *If anything I think the parent that leaves should have to leave their child with the other parent male or female.*

That's ridiculous! A bad relationship is not a good influence on a child sometimes staying does more bad then good , my FOB made me miserable so cos i left him i should hand my little girl over to him?


----------



## moomin_troll

If my mum had left us with my dad then god knows what would of happened to us! So in some cases obviously it's best for the person who leaves to take the children.

But I agree with the pp that it's horrible to say a parent should be grateful to see their own child for 3 days a week, yes it might be better then court access but to be greatful is beyond me


----------



## Donna35

LadyRoy said:


> Donna35 said:
> 
> 
> And also Yorkshiredad I think what the OP means about her being the mother in relation to having the child more nights is just referring to the fact that she (I would assume) would have main custody and the child would reside with her. She is not saying that that makes her 'more important' at all just because she has 'a vagina and not a penis' as you so charmingly put it. Having a penis has nothing to do with it - that appendage has done it's job quite frankly lol. The simple fact is she is allowing more access than most courts do and for that he should be grateful really IMO.
> 
> I think this is AWFUL! How can you say he should be grateful for it??? From the OP's post she left him - that means he lost his OH and his child in one fell swoop!
> 
> If anything I think the parent that leaves should have to leave their child with the other parent male or female.Click to expand...

Just to clarify I did NOT mean that he should be grateful to see his child what I meant is that he should be grateful that she is allowing him have almost 50/50 access which is more than a court would give and is extremely generous IMO.

I think it's beyond ridiculous to think that the person leaving should leave the kids - so if the father is a wifebeater and she leaves she should leave the kids? Or a drunk or bad father etc. Or same again if it was the woman who was a bad mother? No the children should NOT be left behind - sometimes things happen that mean that one of the partners HAS to leave and in that case no way should the child be left behind too.


----------



## teal

I personally don't see why there was a problem with saying he should be grateful. A mother can either allow FOB to see LO the absolute bare minimum that the courts decide or she can work with FOB so he can see his LO as much as possible. In all honesty I'd say someone would be grateful for the latter.


----------



## Donna35

teal said:


> I personally don't see why there was a problem with saying he should be grateful. A mother can either allow FOB to see LO the absolute bare minimum that the courts decide or she can work with FOB so he can see his LO as much as possible. In all honesty I'd say someone would be grateful for the latter.

Thank you Teal this is exactly what I meant xx


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## moomin_troll

Just the language of a mother "allowing" fob to see a child doesn't sit right with me.
It takes 2 to make that child and it just sounds like the child is being used a weapon to me when it's like we'll u can see the child x amount.

I think it's great the OP and her fob share the time like they do, I've said I think he needs to grow up n get a job rather then expecting to see the lo more. From what I've heard he's obviously hurting from well being dumped.


----------



## Laura2919

LadyRoy said:


> Donna35 said:
> 
> 
> And also Yorkshiredad I think what the OP means about her being the mother in relation to having the child more nights is just referring to the fact that she (I would assume) would have main custody and the child would reside with her. She is not saying that that makes her 'more important' at all just because she has 'a vagina and not a penis' as you so charmingly put it. Having a penis has nothing to do with it - that appendage has done it's job quite frankly lol. The simple fact is she is allowing more access than most courts do and for that he should be grateful really IMO.
> 
> I think this is AWFUL! How can you say he should be grateful for it??? From the OP's post she left him - that means he lost his OH and his child in one fell swoop!
> 
> If anything I think the parent that leaves should have to leave their child with the other parent male or female.Click to expand...

You've got to be on a wind up surely? Are you for real? I'm just struggling to understand exactly why me being the better parent out of the two should leave my children with a man who puts his girlfriend above my girls? When they go to his house every other weekend he doesn't look after them, he either sits on his phone and pisses about or he's spending it looking lovingly into the eyes of his gf over a candlelit dinner while his MOTHER does all the work! 

So really what your saying is that because I CHOSE to better my life and BETTER my childrens lives he deserves to have them! 

What an absolute joke of a comment, in fact I think that rates highly on the stupidity scale!


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## Laura2919

moomin_troll said:


> If my mum had left us with my dad then god knows what would of happened to us! So in some cases obviously it's best for the person who leaves to take the children.
> 
> But I agree with the pp that it's horrible to say a parent should be grateful to see their own child for 3 days a week, yes it might be better then court access but to be greatful is beyond me

Like YOU have stated enough every person's situation is different and Donna is speaking from her own situation. 
And he should be grateful because if they had to go to court no court in the land would give a father three days a week unless there was a good reason behind it, we're not saying he needs to be grateful to us he needs to be grateful in general.


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## Laura2919

moomin_troll said:


> Just the language of a mother "allowing" fob to see a child doesn't sit right with me.
> It takes 2 to make that child and it just sounds like the child is being used a weapon to me when it's like we'll u can see the child x amount.
> 
> I think it's great the OP and her fob share the time like they do, I've said I think he needs to grow up n get a job rather then expecting to see the lo more. From what I've heard he's obviously hurting from well being dumped.

We all hurt :shrug: I left, don't mean I wasn't hurting BUT you have to get on with it, he's not expecting her to do more he's wanting his child even more a week than the three days he's getting. 

Of course nothing in this thread would sit right with you because from the very beginning you've been against us stating that you think our situations are different but in all honesty the OP's FOB is only asking to have LO more because he knows it would upset the OP. Nothing more.


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## Donna35

moomin_troll said:


> Just the language of a mother "allowing" fob to see a child doesn't sit right with me.
> It takes 2 to make that child and it just sounds like the child is being used a weapon to me when it's like we'll u can see the child x amount.
> 
> I think it's great the OP and her fob share the time like they do, I've said I think he needs to grow up n get a job rather then expecting to see the lo more. From what I've heard he's obviously hurting from well being dumped.

I'm sorry but you're reading more into the word than there is - I don't use my child as a weapon, I don't think the OP does either but it's a simple fact that the parent who has residential custody can either 'allow' the amount of access that she does or could 'allow' it to go to a court situation. This is what I meant by him being grateful - he SHOULD be grateful that he doesn't have to endure (and nor does she or the child) the whole court situation and he should be grateful that she is being as generous with access as she is being.

Myself and ex had to go through the courts, our situation is of course a million miles from hers and I wouldn't recommend it. I agreed to the access my ex asked for and didn't put up a fight - had I wanted to use JJ as a weapon then I could have done.

I totally agree that he should get a job which would fill his time that he doesn't spend with LO. It would also provide for LO. I agree with Laura that it seems as if he's asking for more just to get at OP. He is bitter from the sounds of it over the break up and so HE is using the child as a weapon IMO.


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## Donna35

LadyRoy said:


> Donna35 said:
> 
> 
> And also Yorkshiredad I think what the OP means about her being the mother in relation to having the child more nights is just referring to the fact that she (I would assume) would have main custody and the child would reside with her. She is not saying that that makes her 'more important' at all just because she has 'a vagina and not a penis' as you so charmingly put it. Having a penis has nothing to do with it - that appendage has done it's job quite frankly lol. The simple fact is she is allowing more access than most courts do and for that he should be grateful really IMO.
> 
> I think this is AWFUL! How can you say he should be grateful for it??? From the OP's post she left him - that means he lost his OH and his child in one fell swoop!
> 
> *If anything I think the parent that leaves should have to leave their child with the other parent male or female.*Click to expand...

No offence but from what I can see you aren't a single parent so therefore you cannot see where OP or the rest of us in here are coming from. We have been through bad breakups (most of us) and the last thing we need is someone who isn't even in the same situation swooping in here and making such an outlandish suggestion as you have done. You know nothing about what OP has endured, what I endured and the other ladies did so please don't come in here and suggest that we should have left our kids with our exes:nope:


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## MummyJade

I left my FOB cos he was a total idiot and never put our daughter first... 
does what mean cos i left my daughter should of stayed with the muppet who didnt care?! 

I left to give my daughter a better happier life instead of living with a man who couldn't give to sh*ts about her! I personally think my daughter deserved better then to watch her dad come and go as he pleased... 

When FOB is around he only has Maizie once a week for a few hours (through his choice).. he makes no effort to ask for LO over night. There for he does not have a say in what she does when she does it... I choose the clothes she wears, the hair cut she has, the school she goes too... If he doesn't make an effort to be a dad then he doesn't have a say! He asks me my routine and he has to stick to it!! So I guess i am wrong! 

Everyone has different parenting and others aint always going to think your right, but thats there problem..

MrsMurphy2Be only you know whats best for your LO, all we can do is give our opinion from what we have been through


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## dustbunny

LadyRoy said:


> If anything I think the parent that leaves should have to leave their child with the other parent male or female.

Haha... if I 'gave' my daughter to her father I don't think he would even realise... he seems to have conveniently forgotten to buy her anything, contribute in any manner or form and upon her birth not even send her a card or letter [the card or letter to LO could have proclaimed I was the biggest bitch in the world but it would have still come from FOB] but no... nothing except a snide shitty card from his _mother_. I have bent over backwards to accommodate him as best as possible with it all thrown back in my face.

But with your logic I and the rest of the lovely ladies on this forum [I am presuming you have not even bothered to gander a look at various threads stating why we are single parents] should just hand our children over to waste of spaces because at some random point in history they bothered to spare 2 seconds to create a life... bah!!!

Remind me next time to venture over to TTC forums and tell them to give up or to other forums and give them a big ol' dose of LadyRoy theory... because I am sure they will appreciate it all as much as we have!


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## Laura2919

Do you honestly think this is the life I wanted, the life I would have chosen for my girls had I have had the option? Not in a million years, there was nothing I wanted more than for us to stay together but I couldn't do it anymore, I tried on more than one occasion, in fact on more than 10 occasions, chance after chance I gave him and he blew them, I'm not saying it is all his fault because I gave up, I was the one who chucked in the towel, he gave me my option and I walked. 

But not in a million years will I ever raise my children to think staying in a relationship that quite frankly does NOT work is the right thing to do. I will raise my children with the understanding that in life not everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle and you should never ever settle for second best, you should never be made to feel like your just someone's comfort and nothing more and I will NEVER ever teach them that they have to settle for less than they deserve. 

I might have walked away when I was handed my chance but please don't think I did it lightly, don't think I hadn't fought long and hard to keep what we had going, to provide my children with the life that I had planned in my head. 

But to be honest I will never regret what has happened because I've seen FOB in ways I couldn't have thought possible and if I didn't leave he eventually would have and I maybe wouldn't of been able to pick myself up and continue like I have done for the past 8 months of my life. 

I don't like the idea of being a single mum, I'd love nothing more than to have a family unit again but what I don't like even more is the idea of FOB being in that family unit because he was what caused me to feel the way I sometimes feel about myself.


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## moomin_troll

Laura2919 said:


> moomin_troll said:
> 
> 
> Just the language of a mother "allowing" fob to see a child doesn't sit right with me.
> It takes 2 to make that child and it just sounds like the child is being used a weapon to me when it's like we'll u can see the child x amount.
> 
> I think it's great the OP and her fob share the time like they do, I've said I think he needs to grow up n get a job rather then expecting to see the lo more. From what I've heard he's obviously hurting from well being dumped.
> 
> We all hurt :shrug: I left, don't mean I wasn't hurting BUT you have to get on with it, he's not expecting her to do more he's wanting his child even more a week than the three days he's getting.
> 
> Of course nothing in this thread would sit right with you because from the very beginning you've been against us stating that you think our situations are different but in all honesty the OP's FOB is only asking to have LO more because he knows it would upset the OP. Nothing more.Click to expand...

I think u need to read my post! I said that he should get a job instead of wanting to see lo more :dohh: 
Who exactly am I against? I posted on this thread to the OP not u who just seems to be taking everything I say personally when I'm not even talking to u!

Yes everyone's situations are different, that's called life and have I said we don't all hurt, or that's it's easy to leave? No I haven't.....
My mum left my dad because he beat the shit out of her, did it still hurt her to leave ofcourse it did. 
Did he try to kidnap my brother and sister to hurt my mum, yes he did. 

Going from ur posts on here Just because ur ex doesn't make a effort to see ur babies doesn't mean OP fob doesn't actually just want to see his daughter...I don't no him n he probably is just doing it all to be a pain in the arse. 

And to be honest this is getting boring. Pick at my post all u want, I came on here to give a opinion n I have which wasn't towards u so I really don't no why u seem to take my posts personaly


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## Laura2919

Yeah your right it is boring.


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## sobersadie

Did your ex have a job when you's were together? I think it depends on the individual family as to how it works with regards to which parent takes the most share of childcare etc but i dont think it necessarily has to be the mother. Can you not sort it out so you are both working part time and share the childcare? (tbh one of you should be working full time to support your child but i dont see why it has to be her father).


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## Laura2919

sobersadie said:


> Did your ex have a job when you's were together? I think it depends on the individual family as to how it works with regards to which parent takes the most share of childcare etc but i dont think it necessarily has to be the mother. Can you not sort it out so you are both working part time and share the childcare? (tbh one of you should be working full time to support your child but i dont see why it has to be her father).

Nobody has said it has to be the father but the mother already works evenings when FOB has his daughter so she already clearly provides for her child so instead of him requesting more access he should go and find a job on the days he doesn't have her. Why should she go without her LO and get a full time job when he doesn't do anything himself?


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## sobersadie

Laura2919 said:


> sobersadie said:
> 
> 
> Did your ex have a job when you's were together? I think it depends on the individual family as to how it works with regards to which parent takes the most share of childcare etc but i dont think it necessarily has to be the mother. Can you not sort it out so you are both working part time and share the childcare? (tbh one of you should be working full time to support your child but i dont see why it has to be her father).
> 
> Nobody has said it has to be the father but the mother already works evenings when FOB has his daughter so she already clearly provides for her child so instead of him requesting more access he should go and find a job on the days he doesn't have her. Why should she go without her LO and get a full time job when he doesn't do anything himself?Click to expand...

She doesnt 'have' to work full time but then she also cant make her ex go get a full time job either. There are lots of families / split couples where the mother works full time and the father does the childcare. If she can afford to work part time then thats great and she has a balance but now the ex is an ex she really has no say as to what he does - its on his conscience that he isnt providing financially for his child. My point is just that neither parent is more 'important' to the child than the other if they split custody.


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## Laura2919

She's not forcing him to find a job, he's being unreasonable. He already looks after LO while she works.


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## sobersadie

Laura2919 said:


> She's not forcing him to find a job, he's being unreasonable. He already looks after LO while she works.

Yep he is being unreasonable im just saying hes a grown man so its up to him what he does, she just needs to concentrate on the fact shes doing her best and not to bother herself with what he does because she cant do anything about it. (ive learned that the hard way from my own experience with my ex.)


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## Laura2919

Yeah but the point is she is telling him to get a job because he feels down when he doesn't have his LO, he wants to have her more instead of getting a job but thats not gonna happen because then the op won't have her time with LO so she suggested him getting a job.


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## sobersadie

She can only suggest it though she cant control wether or not he does it the same as he could turn round to her and say the same to her. Usually the man goes to work full time while the mother works part time or not at all but it doesnt mean it has to be so and as a grown man he has to make that decision for himself even if it means the hild is losing out financially (not fair i know). Maybe hes depressed since the split and cant cope not having his LO so much? The problem with forums is we only get to hear one side of the story when theres always 2 sides.


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## Laura2919

But the point is she doesn't want him to have her anymore than he is because then she wouldn't get much time as she works. 

It's just another way to hurt her.


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