# Valentines Babies, 2013!



## wamommy

Our wonderful group of mamas and their little Cupids has a new home in groups! 

Let's keep the amazing conversation going :happydance:



Our Lovely Ladies So Far:

*February 7*
:blue:GlitterandBug 

*February 11*
:pink:Kim2012 :crib:Welcome Brianna!! February 4, 2013 :crib:
Jades91

*February 13*
:pink:Blue_bear :crib: Welcome Matilda!!  February 13, 2013  :crib:
:pink:Kellen :crib: Welcome Teagen!! February 5, 2013 :crib:
Ciabatta
Whattoexpect

*February 14*
:pink:Jo_Bean :crib: Welcome Olivia !! February 4, 2013 :crib:
:pink: :blue: DragonflyWing :crib: Welcome, Lilja and Gunnar!! December 19, 2012:crib:
:pink: helena :crib: Welcome, Kiara !! January 24, 2013 :crib:
:blue: wamommy :crib: Welcome Max !! February 4, 2013 :crib:
Cherrylee
:blue: nicole844 
:pink: Midnight_Fairy  :crib: Welcome Jade!!  February 11, 2013 :crib:

*February 15*
:blue:SierraJourney  :crib: Welcome Camden!!  February 10, 2013 :crib:

*February 17*
Edigirl82

*February 19*
:pink:Sleeping bubs 

*February 22*
:pink:munchkinlove 


tntrying22
Dani402 :crib: Welcome Nicholas!!  February 11, 2013  :crib:
babynowplease
Rhitomtal

There are many others that have dropped by to say hello, and if you would like to be added to the list please let me know, I'd be happy to do it! :D


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## Blue_bear

Yo homie ;D I think a front page with our names edd's and blie/pink/yellow would be nice if its not too mich work?!


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## wamommy

Blue_bear said:


> Yo homie ;D I think a front page with our names edd's and blie/pink/yellow would be nice if its not too mich work?!

Not too much work at all! The problem is, I can't find everyone's due date! I tried going through to find the updated dates (from dating scans, etc) and got dizzy... lol. 

Can everyone please remind me of your due date? I'm guessing we're all pretty dang close to February 14th, but I'll try to get it exact!

Thank you, Blue_bear, for making me feel less alone :haha:


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## sleeping bubs

hey all found you!!! 

I will have an exact due date on friday as I have my scan I am a bit confused with the dates from MW as she said I am due 16th Feb which will make me 12wk 4days but when I saw her she wrote down 2days less so I am 12wk 2days lol but I have quite a big bump already and I think some movement (could be wishful thinking lol)


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## SierraJourney

Hello new thread! :)

Well, I had my appointment this morning. I only gained ONE pound! hooray!! :) haha. Midwife says she wants to see me gain 10 more pounds by week 20, though! :)

I had a bit of a scare during my appointment because she couldn't find the baby's heartbeat on the doppler. She must have searched for 5 minutes or more. . .and nothing. She pushed harder, tried different angles, etc, but no heartbeat. FINALLY, after what seemed an eternity, she heard a tiny blip of it. She had to reposition and we finally heard it chugging away! Apparently little bean was sitting RIGHT next to a big artery of mine---so all you could hear was my heartbeat intermixed with it's little beat! I guess it just wanted to be extra close to mommy today. :)

The doctor gave us the clear to tell anyone and everyone---said my chances of having a healthy pregnancy are really really high. :) So, I spilled the beans to my coworkers---and everyone is really excited---and at least 2 of them said they noticed the "bump" already but didn't want to say anything until I did! ha! I feel SO much better about everything now that we heard baby's heartbeat again! I'm just elated today!!!!! :) :) :)

My EDD is February 15th. :)


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## Jo_Bean

Hello my lovelies xxx

My due date is actually Feb 14th :D confirmed at 12w scan :happydance:

Love the new home!


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## Blue_bear

My EDD is the 13th xx


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## GlitterandBug

Hey ladies! Sorry, I was a bit rubbish at keeping up to date with the other thread but nice to see this shiny new one :thumbup:

My EDD is 8th Feb but finally having my official 12 week dating scan tmrw so will prob go with that EDD as that'll be what everything else will be based on I guess!

Hope all is well with everyone? x


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## whattoexpect

Hi Ladies, 
I hope you have room for one more :flower: 

I have been following along for a while and would love to connect with some other moms to be!

This is my first pregnancy after about 2 years of TTC and after going the fertility route finally got my BFP!!

I have been to my 12 wk scan and everything looks good. Can't wait till my anatomy scan on Sept 20 to find out if I need to buy pink or blue paint for the nursery!

EDD Feb 13th

:crib:


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## SierraJourney

whattoexpect said:


> Hi Ladies,
> I hope you have room for one more :flower:
> 
> I have been following along for a while and would love to connect with some other moms to be!
> 
> This is my first pregnancy after about 2 years of TTC and after going the fertility route finally got my BFP!!
> 
> I have been to my 12 wk scan and everything looks good. Can't wait till my anatomy scan on Sept 20 to find out if I need to buy pink or blue paint for the nursery!
> 
> EDD Feb 13th
> 
> :crib:

Welcome!!!! So happy for you---congratulations!! You'll find everyone here is just awesome---so jump right in! :) This is also my first pregnancy!


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## wamommy

I have to run some errands, but I'll fix the list when I get back! The spacing is all messed up:haha:

I'm so glad everyone's jumping over to the new thread!!


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## wamommy

Welcome, whattoexpect!

GlitterandBug, YAY for your scan tomorrow! I can't wait to hear all about it :D

SierraJourney, SO excited you got to hear the heart beat! What was it? I have an appointment tomorrow, and am super excited. My heart beats have been SUPER high this time, and even though people say it's a wives' tale, I'm thinking girl #3!

Speaking of gender, since none of us know what it is yet I'll assume we're all team yellow for now. I thought it might be fun to guess, though! Maybe put your guesses for the gender of your babies on the first page and then see how many are right?? (I'm SURE we can hit 50% accuracy :haha:)


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## DragonflyWing

Hello new thread! Sorry I've been missing for a while. I'm on vacation in New York :)

My due date is Feb 14th. 

I've been feeling the babies move a lot over the past week. I'm getting nudges, and what feels like flips lol. It's pretty awesome.

The morning sickness and fatigue have been so much better. Still need the Zofran, but i have almost no breakthrough nausea! I hardly feel pregnant.


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## Jo_Bean

Glad to see things are good with you Dragon :hugs: 
I was wondering where you were. Is this your wedding reception?

I am guessing :pink: for me at the moment. A lot of the gender tests have said girl and the Chinese gender predictor :thumbup:


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## GlitterandBug

All being well at the scan today, we'll then be finding out the gender in 3 weeks and 5 days!! Didn't find out with DD so this is really exciting. I'm going back and fore between boy and girl - just don't know! With DD, I just KNEW she was a girl!

Just over 7 hours til my scan!!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> Welcome, whattoexpect!
> 
> GlitterandBug, YAY for your scan tomorrow! I can't wait to hear all about it :D
> 
> SierraJourney, SO excited you got to hear the heart beat! What was it? I have an appointment tomorrow, and am super excited. My heart beats have been SUPER high this time, and even though people say it's a wives' tale, I'm thinking girl #3!
> 
> Speaking of gender, since none of us know what it is yet I'll assume we're all team yellow for now. I thought it might be fun to guess, though! Maybe put your guesses for the gender of your babies on the first page and then see how many are right?? (I'm SURE we can hit 50% accuracy :haha:)

It was 150 bpm. :) Please tell us how your appointment went!!! I can't wait to hear! :) 

I think it's a great idea to guess gender! I'm guessing :pink: for me because my mom had 3 girls, 0 boys, and my sisters both have 1 girl, 0 boys. :) I'd love a little girl, but also think it'd be awesome to have the first boy in the family----so we'll see what happens!! :) DH would love a son, but also thinks a little daughter would be just precious! It'll be so exciting to see everyone's guesses and see the end results! 

Dragon--that's so great that you are feeling the babies so much! I keep thinking I'm feeling mine here and there, but nothing "for sure" yet. My midwife said I should start feeling it for sure soon because I'm a smaller person, though! :)

Glitterbug--I'm so excited to hear how your scan goes---please post pictures!! :) It's crazy that you'll know the gender in a bit over 3 weeks! My midwife won't even scan me until 20 weeks!! :( 

How soon will the rest of you find out? Maybe I'll have to get a private scan before 20 weeks just so I'll know earlier! :)


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## Kellen

Huzzah for the new thread! Thanks for moving us over here!

My EDD is February 13th. We have our next appointment with the midwife a week from today. At 12 weeks I had gained a whole 2 pounds! Last night I went to put on my "fat" pants (ie they have never fit and I had to hold them up so as to keep them from falling) and I couldn't even button them! Thankfully DH was able to "loan" me a pair of his jean shorts and they fit just right. :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, I'm outgrowing my fatpants too! :( 

Just got my maternity bra in the mail. Not sure how I feel about it. .. tons of support, but not a smooth finish under clothing. . . (It's one of the "hotmilk" ones that are supposed to be sexy. .. .it looked sexy in the pictures, but not so much on me! :( ) Might be too hard to return, so I might keep it as a nursing bra if it still will fit by that time. .. Any suggestions on good maternity bra stores/online retailers?


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## Kellen

I haven't really looked into any nursing bras. I took the cheap and easy way out by going to Costco and buying a sports bra a size up from normal. It provides support and it is comfy! My midwife says I can even wear it to bed for support if need be, but would have to stop in the third trimester due to milk coming in. And it is stretchy so it grows with me!


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## DragonflyWing

Jo_Bean said:


> Glad to see things are good with you Dragon :hugs:
> I was wondering where you were. Is this your wedding reception?
> 
> I am guessing :pink: for me at the moment. A lot of the gender tests have said girl and the Chinese gender predictor :thumbup:

Yes, our reception was on Friday :) we've been having a nice relaxing time visiting with my family. Unfortunately, we're heading back home tomorrow. It's never long enough!


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> I haven't really looked into any nursing bras. I took the cheap and easy way out by going to Costco and buying a sports bra a size up from normal. It provides support and it is comfy! My midwife says I can even wear it to bed for support if need be, but would have to stop in the third trimester due to milk coming in. And it is stretchy so it grows with me!

Ooo---good to know--I always wear a bra to bed! So, does that mean any type of bra would interfere with milk coming in, or just sports bras?


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## GlitterandBug

Hey ladies!

Scan went well this afternoon - moved me forward another day so due 7th Feb! 14 weeks tmrw! :happydance:

Does anyone know how to upload a pic from the iPad?


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## ciabatta

Hiya
Well I was lurking and posted once or twice on the other one!

Due 13th Feb, had scan at 12+2 all fab, baby no.2, am lucky as have a delicious 1 yr old (I say delicious as I spend a ridiculous amount of time eating her up with kisses and cuddles lol). OH wants a boy, I' d love o girl ut dont really mind!!

Anyone got a names yet???? We are really struggling! We knew when we met 7 yrs before we had her what we would name our daughter so really didn' t have to think for Lucia.... this time!!! ahhh!!!


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## sleeping bubs

Hey all I have had to buy a maternity bra already as I was a b cup now a ddcup lol scan on Fri wishing time would go faster! 

Got some sad news my best friend should have been 9wks but she had a scan today and there was no heart beat she is going into hospital tomorrow


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## edigirl82

*waves* Can I join this group? I was in the other one - revised EDD now 17th Feb  Here is my bean at 11w 5d 

https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e220/magpigs/11w5dedit.jpg


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## Jo_Bean

GlitterandBug said:


> Hey ladies!
> 
> Scan went well this afternoon - moved me forward another day so due 7th Feb! 14 weeks tmrw! :happydance:
> 
> Does anyone know how to upload a pic from the iPad?

I have the photobucket app and upload it through there, then use the [ img] link :thumbup:


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## wamommy

Welcome back, edigirl and ciabatta! I'm glad things are going well so far, and beautiful scan pick, edi :D

GlitterandBug, I'm SO glad your scan went well!! I can't wait to see the pic :yipee: You must be so happy/relieved/excited! Also, FABULOUS new due date, since that's my Birthday, haha. I'm secretly hoping my little one makes a one-week-early appearance as the best birthday gift EVER.

Sleeping bubs, I'm so sorry about your friend :( It just isn't fair sometimes, is it? Makes me feel so very blessed.

I had another appointment this morning! They just took blood for the quad-screen, and then my ob came in and said, "we're having a slow day today, mind if we do your physical?" EEK!! I said sure, but REALLY didn't want a pap today :dohh: It ended up NOT being a pap, just an internal "feel up" and checking skin and bbs, etc. She did say something that made me SO happy in an uncomfortable and way-too-much-info kind of way. As she was doing my internal she said "Wow! For having two natural births your internal organs are remarkably well supported!" LOL! Were they supposed to be falling out by now or something? Yikes, but yay??
Baby's heart beat was 159, and uterus is already almost to my belly button. No wonder I look SO big (and I only gained 2 pounds? Feels like 20).

As for the bra situation... I have no idea. I only just recently found the bra of my dreams before this pregnancy, and it's too small now :( I bought a sports bra, and it's heaven, but it kind of makes a "mono-boob" that isn't super flattering in clothes. 

I hope everyone is doing well!


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## helena

Hi all! Me me me! feb 14. Cheers my dears xx


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## wamommy

helena said:


> Hi all! Me me me! feb 14. Cheers my dears xx

Yikes, helena, I don't know how you weren't on the list already!! :dohh: I have you right here on my paper list with your due date and everything. I'm so sorry :blush:


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## helena

Hormones! I swear I will leave one of my boys in the supermarket one day soon!?
Went shopping yesterday eve, no. 1 aim to get baby wipes. Spent 70 and no wipes.:dohh:


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## Kim2012

Hurray to the new home:flower:
Good to hear all the news about the scans

Been away anxiously thinking about the scan and didnt want to scare anybody with my crazy dreams:nope: .The scan went well .Sad that i couldnt go with DH due to work and the community centre only doing scans every Wednesday and my impatience to wait for a hospital appointment.Ended up going with DS (7yr) who enjoyed every moment and asked the sonographer why she had shown her arms legs and brain and not shown him the private bits so that he knows if he is having a lil bro or sister:happydance:
It was quite a magical and emortional moment finally saying hello to the life growing in me.
 



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## helena

DH wasn't with me either, it's a shame but he had to work too. We will just have to make sure thy can come or the 20 week one - that will seem extra magic for them!


Eating so much ice cream just now.


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## SierraJourney

Gorgeous scans everyone!! 

Well, yesterday was an interesting day at work for me. . .I kept smelling a fishy smell (I hate the smell of fish, and with pregnancy it's made me gag/nauseous everytime I smell it). Well, all day this fish smell wouldn't leave my office. Come to find out, it was the PAPER in my office that smells like fish! (I'm sure it really doesn't, but that's what my pregnancy nose is interpreting it like---weird, huh?!) So. . .this is going to be a long next 5 months gagging on fish-smell while I work. . . :(

Also, I'm pretty sure I felt baby for sure last night! Several times! It was like a soft popping feeling. . .and (sorry tmi) DH and I were dtd and I felt it pretty strongly! Like baby jumped or something! :haha: I'm assuming it didn't like all of the comotion! :haha: The same feelings kept keeping me up all night (along with cramping). Do you think this really is baby!?! I really hope it is!!


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## Jo_Bean

Last week when I was stuck on a conference call at work and bursting for a pee I am sure I felt baby. The reason my full bladder is relevant is that is the only time I have felt it so far and I'm sure it was because the full bladder made it more crowded in there. It was like little bubbles popping :cloud9:

I've been trying to feel it again since and nothing, but then I can't hold my pee for that long these days!


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## Blue_bear

Im sure ive felt my bubba too!


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## Jo_Bean

only trouble is, when you think you've felt it, you want to feel it again so badly. I lay on my back after I've woken up in the mornings poking and prodding until I can't wait to pee any longer and nothing :haha:


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## wamommy

So jealous! I may, or may NOT have felt baby... I'm not sure! You'd think I'd feel it/recognize it earlier being #3, but I haven't! I think part of it is that I have SO much gas this time around (sorry tmi) that I can't differentiate between gas bubbles and baby :dohh:

helena, I'm sure it is the hormones! I've been forgetting SO many things lately. The other day I was about to pull the car out of the driveway and my 2-year-old screamed "DOOR DOOR" and I looked back and had left the sliding door on the van open. I'm a mess:haha:

Kim, I'm glad your scan went well! Too cute about your son. It's nice that he's old enough to sit through it and appreciate what he's seeing. So cool :)


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## sleeping bubs

Got scan in morning nevous and excited I too are feeling movements and seeing them c stomach move with a kick punch hoping it is anyway


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## helena

So exciting you guys are feeling baby!!!!! I am not sure I have yet. Thought I had a while ago but nothing since. Wamommy I thought I would be feeling it early too, since this is also my number 3, but nope.
Hilarious you left the van door open! Hehe


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## Jo_Bean

Good job your son is clever enough to tell you to shut the door!! You taught him well. :thumbup:


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## Kim2012

wamommy said:


> So jealous! I may, or may NOT have felt baby... I'm not sure! You'd think I'd feel it/recognize it earlier being #3, but I haven't! I think part of it is that I have SO much gas this time around (sorry tmi) that I can't differentiate between gas bubbles and baby :dohh:
> 
> helena, I'm sure it is the hormones! I've been forgetting SO many things lately. The other day I was about to pull the car out of the driveway and my 2-year-old screamed "DOOR DOOR" and I looked back and had left the sliding door on the van open. I'm a mess:haha:
> 
> Kim, I'm glad your scan went well! Too cute about your son. It's nice that he's old enough to sit through it and appreciate what he's seeing. So cool :)

Hormones ...hormones.having gotten some energy back I decided to cook dinner for the family ...a quick fry meatballs.Chopped onions and tthey went straight onto the cooker because in my mind I had already put the hob with some oil...yet I hadnt.Poor DH had to clear the mess and coock dinner after a 12 hr shift:nope:


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## wamommy

Haha! I'm glad it's not just me!


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## munchkinlove

thanks for starting a new thread.....can you add me for feb 22nd please.


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## wamommy

munchkinlove said:


> thanks for starting a new thread.....can you add me for feb 22nd please.

Done :D Glad to see you found us!


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## helena

10.15 am. Kids breakfasted and in bath. Dishwasher unloaded and reloaded. Kitchen cleaned. Windows washed. Bathroom started cleaning. This is a miracle and I haven't been this active in weeks!
No nausea, feel almost normal!

:thumbup::happydance: DH will be delighted! Now to tackle shopping before making all the family lunch! :thumbup:

God help DH if he doesn't notice the windows when he gets in!....lol


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## Jo_Bean

don't overdo it though Helena! Maybe have a sit down and a cup of tea in a minute x


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## helena

Oh yes, I definitely deserve a cuppa and a mini lion bar now! (who threw them in my shopping trolley?!)
Hope you are all having a good day. The weekend is nearly here!
Xx


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## Jo_Bean

oooh, I could eat a mini lion bar! I have not been eating any chocolate at all, but I could eat a lion bar :D yum!

The weather is lovely here today, unfortunately I'm stuck on the laptop working, but I could maybe dangle my feet out of the back door!


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## SierraJourney

Helena---that's wonderful! Do take a rest, though! I'm still fighting fatigue quite a bit, but today I only have to work half a day, so my *plan* is to tackle cleaning the kitchen, bathrooms, and sweeping the floor , . .maybe cleaning up our bedroom, too (that's the last room that usually gets cleaned because no one else sees it!) :) AND DH said he'll take me to Victoria's Secret to get a proper bra in a bigger size (I just can't handle that maternity bra, so just decided I'd op for ONE expensive bra in a bigger size and wear it until I grow out of it again!) :) SOooooo excited! YAY for more support! :haha:

I was a little annoyed at my mil last night. DH told her I was feeling baby quite a bit and she says that it's not possible. Yes, I'm a little hormonal, but I blew up at him saying that she's not the baby's mother and *I* am and only *I* can tell if I am or am not feeling MY baby! haha With that, and she told him that she was planning on staying with us for a couple of weeks after the baby is born!! (DH will be back to work by that time, so it'd just be me and baby and mil! :( ) No offense to her, because I like her. . .but if I need any help, MY mom and sisters would be the first ones I ask! So with that and raging hormones, I marched promptly off to bed! :haha:


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## Jo_Bean

OMG! I would have been really annoyed too! 

I am dreading the conversations that will come up about who will be visiting when - we have no room for anyone to stay and both families only live about 20 minutes away so I'm hoping they will just come round if I ask them to rather than expecting to be there!
We'll see though :wacko:


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## SierraJourney

Jo_Bean said:


> OMG! I would have been really annoyed too!
> 
> I am dreading the conversations that will come up about who will be visiting when - we have no room for anyone to stay and both families only live about 20 minutes away so I'm hoping they will just come round if I ask them to rather than expecting to be there!
> We'll see though :wacko:

That's the same with me. MIL has a cottage 20 minutes away. . . so why can't she stay there?! My mom and sister live about 40 minutes away, but I'm sure they would drive to see me. . . they don't like imposing unless I insist! My MIL tends to get a bit bossy when it comes to her son's life. . .so I usually have to put my foot down (wedding=nightmare!) :(


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## Jo_Bean

I'm sure she is seeing it as a gift to her son of her time etc.

I would see it like you. Women know when women are being manipulative!

I had the same trouble with wedding. His mum was a nightmare leading up to it. I wonder if it is mothers of boys though as I could imagine being this person if I have a son and when he grows up :haha: I will have to remind myself of conversations like this though!


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## whattoexpect

Hey Ladies,

Sorry I have been MIA.

I had a bit of a scare on Wednesday, super painful stabbing sensation low in my groin and then noticed a bit of brown spotting.

I called my clinic, but they didn't seem too alarmed. I had an appt booked for yesterday to get my IPS results so they told me just to come in then.

Thankfully all is perfect with the bean!! THe results are normal and I got to see baby again.

Yesterday was also my 30th birthday and my sister gave me the most amazing photo frame. You put the sonogram pic in it and there is a little caption mine says "coming soon" so cute.

I finally decided to post it on facebook yesterday and the comments were amazing.

Feels so much more real now, and really starting to get excited.
:cloud9::yipee:


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## SierraJourney

Jo_Bean said:


> I'm sure she is seeing it as a gift to her son of her time etc.
> 
> I would see it like you. Women know when women are being manipulative!
> 
> I had the same trouble with wedding. His mum was a nightmare leading up to it. I wonder if it is mothers of boys though as I could imagine being this person if I have a son and when he grows up :haha: I will have to remind myself of conversations like this though!

Yeah, I was just talking to my sister and she said, "Aww, she was just trying to be nice!" :) So, maybe it won't be so bad, but I just want to make sure *I* call the shots and not her! :) And I totally agree---I think I'll be one of those mom's too! It'll be my little boy and I'll want to help!! :)

whattoexpect---so glad to hear that everything is fine with your baby!! That would scare me too! I posted on facebook this week, too----it's really fun to read everyone's excitement! :happydance:


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## sleeping bubs

:happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance:

all is well with my little bean I am 12wks 3days so due 19th Feb but having planed c-section so will be before that

I have a few scans coming up as my DS was only 4lb 7oz at birth at full term so got scans at 20wk, 28wk, 32wk and 36wk

will post a photo later once I go on the other computer


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## Kellen

Hey all! Glad to hear that I'm not the only one starting to feel "normal." Over the past couple days I've felt like a pregnancy bloodhound with all the weird smells my office seems to be making. Yesterday it was an awful moldy coffee/chewing tobacco smell. Today it is rancid bacon. Make it stop!


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## wamommy

sleeping bubs, yay :D So glad your scan went well!! I changed your due date, and can't wait to see the pic!

Kellen, I totally get it. I smell cat pee and body odor everywhere I go. It's AWFUL! What's weird is that I don't have a super nose for yummy smells, just the yucky ones!

whattoexpect, I'm glad everything is alright! That's a cute idea for announcing the pregnancy. Happy birthday, also!

Sierra, sounds like you have your hands full! My own Mom came to stay for 2 days after my last DD, and even that was too much! I am kind of a control freak around the house, and was telling her to make sure the glasses don't touch in the dishwasher or they'll break, and she said "I've loaded a few dishwashers in my life!!" and decided to go home early the next day :nope: I think the first few days after the baby is born hormones go absolutely insane, and MIL there with you is sort of asking for conflict, but I hope not!

Helena, glad you're feeling better! I'm still trampled with fatigue, but you've inspired me to try to tackle a cleaning job. Maybe I'll get to one a day. today, kitchen floor!!!


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## Kellen

I am thankful that my in-laws live in Texas and are less than motivated to come see us... ever. We've been in Georgia for over a year and they have come here *0* times while we have spent over $800 in gas and airline tickets to see them several times.
My parents on the other hand live in Oregon :( but have graciously split the cost of airfare with us so that I can go see them at the end of the month! They also are coming to visit for 2 weeks during Thanksgiving. Thankfully both my DH and I are really close to my folks. His are nice, but they exist in a totally different world. No offense to anyone, but - their idea of fine dining is eating an $8 hamburger.
My DH pretty much raised himself and has elevated himself through college and world travel. It is difficult for them to understand why we are the only ones (out of his 5 siblings) that don't live within 30 minutes driving distance. I also don't like to be around them because they smoke like trains! Love them to death, but 3 days is about max.


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## wamommy

I finally got up the nerve to take/post a bump pick this morning, and my DH saw me loading it onto the computer. He said, "are you posting that? You look like you're sticking your stomach out, and your thighs aren't really that big in real life are they? Want me to take a pic?"

I burst into tears, ran upstairs to change clothes, and angrily did a workout video in the other room. I'm not sure if he meant to be helpful? This is the first he's taking ANY notice of my bump, so how would he know how it looks??? Maybe I should paint my bump like a cell phone so that he'll actually pay attention to what's going on in there. Ugh :(


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## sleeping bubs

oh bless ya Wamommy I really want to take a bump pic didn't really do it with Mckenzie until around 8months when we went on holiday!!

Here is my scan picture gender guesses welcome 
 



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## helena

SierraJourney said:


> I was a little annoyed at my mil last night. DH told her I was feeling baby quite a bit and she says that it's not possible. Yes, I'm a little hormonal, but I blew up at him saying that she's not the baby's mother and *I* am and only *I* can tell if I am or am not feeling MY baby! haha With that, and she told him that she was planning on staying with us for a couple of weeks after the baby is born!! (DH will be back to work by that time, so it'd just be me and baby and mil! :( ) No offense to her, because I like her. . .but if I need any help, MY mom and sisters would be the first ones I ask! So with that and raging hormones, I marched promptly off to bed! :haha:

Oh Sierra, why do people plan thing without being asked? Maybe she thought she was offering to help...
When we had our first my inlaws came out after the birth, as did my parents. DH and I agreed no more than 5 nights. I think the inlaws then went and booked for 10 days.grrrrr I was mad! But I tried to hide it as I love my boys knowing their grandparents, I love having family. But still...

I know this is an exciting time for grandparents too but it is so hard in that first month, and I was so not wanting to share baby too much. I waned to hold him all I wanted. And stay in my pjs. And breast feed or pump willynilly.

With my second baby we got the inlaws here for when I was In hospital (scheduled c sec) to help dh with my first son. They spent the entire time decorating. I phoned DH one day from the hospital to see when he was coming in to visit me and he couldn't visit yet as he was at the DIY shop since his dad wanted something...so the inlaws were, despite trying to be helpful, creating us more work and not minding my first son, my husband did that. AND (while I am on a roll!) on the day baby was born we asked the inlaws to wait outside for a few minutes while we introduced our first son to the baby and we wanted family quiet time. Well, it didn't happen, the in laws came right n in with them. It upset me quite a lot!

Really, it is such a hard time with family..we need to be really specific if there is something we want, but to try and do it tactfully if someone is likely to be upset ( my MIL is so sensitive it's silly, even DH steps around her on egg shells). Luckily. Have a relationship with my folks where I just say how it is and they are fine with it.

But families..wow, sure are tricky when it comes to babies and birth!

I want even mention what my fil said when I brought baby home..ok I will. He thought he was joking and being funny when he looked at me as I got out of the car and exclaimed " did they leave one in there?!". .......he must be unaware of hormones post birth.....I sobbed on the phone to my mum. Hysterically. Think she wanted to wallop him! (and she isn't a fighty type...more a knitting kind of grandma).


Ooh....inlaws!....
So Sierra, be firm! Xx


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## cherrylee

I'm stuck between the 13th and the 14th! 10 week dating scan said the 14th and 12 weeks scan said the 13th lol.


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## Blue_bear

Oh god god, those first few days are hard enough let alone with unwanted visitors. I think its difficult for grandparents to understand but you need those first few days just to bond and recover (and let the hormones settle) plus babies always sleep when you have visitors but will wake when they leave and you never end up getting a rest! 

Seriously ladies, its well worth having a chat with your dh's about whos allowed in and we had a bit of a secret code for when id had enough and he would make excuses for people to leave. 

I waited a week before inviting people in...apart from family and im SO glad i did, you dont get those precious moments back.


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## helena

wamommy said:


> I finally got up the nerve to take/post a bump pick this morning, and my DH saw me loading it onto the computer. He said, "are you posting that? You look like you're sticking your stomach out, and your thighs aren't really that big in real life are they? Want me to take a pic?"
> 
> I burst into tears, ran upstairs to change clothes, and angrily did a workout video in the other room. I'm not sure if he meant to be helpful? This is the first he's taking ANY notice of my bump, so how would he know how it looks??? Maybe I should paint my bump like a cell phone so that he'll actually pay attention to what's going on in there. Ugh :(

Hugs xx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks so much for everyone's input on the grandparents thing---it's sooo hard! I'm glad I'm not alone in my thoughts. And I'm also glad helena brought up that at first you dont' want to share baby much. That's exactly how I'm feeling right now! It's like I want baby all to myself for a bit before it gets whisked away by grandparents. I do realize I will need help, but *I* want to be the one to ask for help---when I'm ready. And I want to be able to have all the alone time I want with our first child. And good-gracious---exactly the truth on breastfeeding---I don't want to have to worry about "covering up" the whole time in my own home for the first couple of weeks! Let me get used to breastfeeding in the first place, then I will worry about covering up! :) 

sleeping-bubs, your scan pic is sooooo cute! I can't believe our baby's look like that right now! SO BIG!!! :) Ahhh I just want to cuddle it right now!!! :)

(haha---I can definitely tell I'm starting to be a "mommy" already! I'm having all these mommy-like thoughts and protectiveness over my baby) Soooo fun! I can't wait to be a mum! 

Anyone getting headaches a lot? I've had a headache on and off for about 4 days! I can't get it to go away! :( It's only on the left side of my head, too, which I find weird.

I've also been having trouble brushing my teeth! Whenever I brush my teeth, I either gag or sometimes I actually vomit! What's up with that?!?


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I'm so sorry! I want to see your bump picture! It's amazing the things that come out of DH's mouth sometimes---for the first months, he kept telling me "wow, that thing looks huge!" and things like that.. .(not meaning to be rude, but still. . a little un-tactful!) Just recently he's been starting to say that my bump is "sexy" and he likes it and stuff like that. I think it took a while for DH's brain to compute what he was seeing! :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Haha I know, the things men say! The other day, DH told me that as the weeks go by, I look more and more like the Venus of Willendorf :wacko:

Just for reference, here's what the V of W looks like:
 



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## whattoexpect

I've been finding the same thing, with the headaches. All that seems to help is some rest and tylenol here and there.

I have noticed the same thing with the toothbrush, like my gag reflex is way further up than it used to be.

I've been having quite a bit of round ligament pain too, odd, painful stretching feeling...and seems like the backaches have started too.

All that aside, I have truly never felt happier and more at peace with myself than I do right now. This is such a blessing!


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## Jo_Bean

I've been getting a lot of pains in the lower stomach area. Usually when I stand up from sitting or sneeze or cough. Luckily I was ready this morning that it is completely normal and that resting in the best thing to do as our bodies are working really hard to make room for baby to grow.

I can't wait to feel baby move, I'm sure I felt it once but not since. It will just be nice when we have that built in reminder that they are ok and still moving etc.

I've been getting headaches too, not really bad ones, just mildish achey feelings and very tired eyes.

Still not complaining though! This is the best thing ever being pregnant!!!!


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## helena

I am with you on the headaches too. I find sleep to be the only thing that helps.
I had the tooth brushing thing the other week - made me vomit. Now it just seems my teeth are really sensitive!

The round ligament pains are here too when I get up. but the doc gave me some magnesium supplements which I think is meant to help with the stretching. At least the pains aren't as bad as in my first two pregnancies. But yes, an unexpected sneeze can be painful!....still, least we aren't at the stage where an unexpected sneeze leads to wet undies! (and yes, that's true and yet to come!lol).

Today I had my first wobble about getting fat. Not like me to whine to dh that I worry I am getting fat...must be our hormones making us sensitive! Desperately need to go buy maternity clothes, so many of mine just don't fit now!


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## SierraJourney

By the way, I finally got a bra that fits!!! YAY!! I went up TWO cup sizes! And it feels like magic. I can't believe I was walking around so unsupported! :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Have you all gained much weight yet? My doctor told me I should expect to gain about 40 pounds total...but so far I've only gained 1 pound. I've gone up a whole bra size, and have a bit of a bump, but the rest of me has gotten slightly smaller. I can still fit in all my pre-pregnancy clothes (although the pants are uncomfortably tight around the waist.)

It's weird, because before I was pregnant, if I wasn't dieting I was gaining weight. I have just NEVER been able to maintain my weight. Now I'm eating all I want and I'm not gaining anything. 

Now, I'm not TOO worried, because I have ample fat reserves ;), but I worry that my babies will be small if I can't gain enough weight.


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## SierraJourney

I have only gained 1 pound. My midwife says she wants me to gain 10 more pounds by 20 weeks. That's over a pound a week! I'm not sure how I'll do, but she said it should just start happening due to water weight and if I eat when I'm hungry. I've gained about 3 inches around my middle (or at least, that's the gap I have in front when I try to button my pre-pregnancy work pants). Midwife said she'd like to see me gain 20-25 pounds total for the pregnancy, which seems a bit low for me? She said I'll lose 12 pounds when I have the baby, 12 pounds about a week or so after baby (water weight), and breastfeeding should lose even more for me. If that's correct, it sounds like I'll end up skinnier than I started out as! :) ha!


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## helena

I so need to go bra shopping, hating wire ones now.


Dragon - i have gained about 3 kilo so far, 6.6lbs? Think I am going to be massiiiive!!!

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_DA06F3A2.jpg

Breast feeding is fab for weight loss, I lost all my baby weight with my first in 3 months. It went straight from me back to baby! Doctor said the baby's weight gain in the first 3 months was amazing! :)


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## Kellen

Good Morning, All!

Actually, it feels like a craptastic morning to me, but I'm trying to be positive. (Explanation to come in what is sure to be a lovely ranting post). I've gained 2lbs and I was told 25-30 would be considered perfect for me.

Let's start with Saturday night... Old army buddy with wife and new baby come to town and stay at mutual friend's house. We go over to visit. Go to dinner. I am tired and have had a headache since I woke up. So at 10 after forcing myself to stay for an extra hour to be "social" I leave my DH and his motorcycle with the promise that he will be following me home soon. So I hop in bed and promptly pass out until 12:30. I send a text: "Are you still visiting or do I need to come pull you out of a ditch?" He was visiting and said he would be leaving soon. At around 1 I begin to feel vaguely pukey so I texted him and asked him to come home as I feel like I'm going to throw up and my headache has turned into a migraine. "Okay, soon" is the response I get.
So about 5 minutes later I am (TMI!) puking through my nose and mouth, trying not to aspirate on vomit and crying hysterically. I text him again. No response. Finally 30 minutes later I send: "30 minutes is not soon to a pregnant woman who is puking." Finally at 2am he shows up as I am still hugging the toilet. He forget his housekey in the car so I had to quickly rush to the door and back. I think he finally got it as I continued to throw up water for another 45 minutes. We're good now, but it really ticked me off!

Fast forward (I told you this was going to be long!). Yesterday my MIL calls during nap time to tell us that one of DH's nephew's needs $100 in order to get up to the college that he received a scholarship to and could we please send it. GAH! We are not made of money and are trying to save for the baby. I love his folks, but (and he refuses to bring it up or collect) they owe us around $1200 that is only since we have been married (9/21/10). Because we both have decent jobs they believe we have unlimited cash. I told DH that we would send $25 and nephew could go bum off his 4 other aunts and uncles for the rest.

This morning we have had thunderstorms. This means DH cannot ride the motorcycle to work (we have 1 car) so I must drive him. Seeing as school just started Monday traffic is HORRIBLE! So we get to his work in plenty of time and then he realizes that he has left his keys at home. So instead of arriving to work early (ie 7:45-8) I rolled in around 8:45 and was immediately beset with stupid requests and idiotic phone calls.

Either my tolerance for stupid has completely disappeared or people are just honestly becoming more dumb by the minute. I feel like a basket case. Please tell me I'm not completely loosing my mind and all by myself...


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## SierraJourney

Love the bump helena!! :)

Kellen---I'm sorry things are so frustrating right now. I would have been super upset at my DH if he did that to me and I needed him home. 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who is getting bouts of nausea and vomiting still. Most of the time, I feel good, but sometimes it just hits me! :(


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- I would have been super pissed, too, if I were in your shoes! And I would tie the keys to DH's shoelaces lol.

The whole week I was in NY visiting, I didn't feel sick at all. As soon as I got home, it started right back up again. What the heck? Is it all psychological? Something I'm eating/not eating? Argh! I hate feeling nauseated, and I was so happy it was going away.

I had a terrible dream last night that I decided to terminate my pregnancy, and then felt horribly guilty and totally regretted it...but it turned out that it didn't work and I was not only still pregnant, but I had triplets! I was so relieved when I woke up.


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## Kellen

Thanks for the support everyone! I am glad that I'm not the only one who has random bouts of nausea. And I'm really not all that frustrated most of the time, but when it hit it hits hard!

And, Helena, that is an adorable bump. Tomorrow (14w) I am going to have DH take another bump picture. We did one at 8 weeks. Now we will be able to compare. We also have a midwife appt tomorrow so we'll see how much I've really gained... DH has gained 10lbs. :rofl:


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## Kellen

Just read this article and wanted to share... In case anyone was tempted to eat fruit from McDonald's.

https://journalstar.com/business/lo...cle_7e450fc0-2023-5faf-be66-360377af6453.html


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## helena

Ooh i shall be avoiding that - thanks for the link! Luckily mcD makes me feel sick now, since I wanted nothing more than McDs for the first 2 months!

Kellen, sorry you are having such a crap time. It's so awful when all the naff things come at once. And why do men not get in at the time they say?? I think they must be genetically programmed to be late. Otherwise, if they were super clever they would add a couple of hours to their planned return time, say they will be in at 2am when realistically they will be in at midnight, so we think they have been early and they would get extra gold stars!?

Oh no I am the only one gaining big weight here....*helena sulks off to eat more* ;)

Off camping tomorrow for 3 nights. Really looking forward to it apart from the needing to pee all night. Will take a potty!

X


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## Kellen

Helena, you are right! Men should overestimate their arrival time and get brownie points for being early. Oddly enough my DH's favorite song is "Waiting on a Woman" by Brad Paisley. I tease him that he is obviously the woman in our marriage because I am forever waiting on him. For crying out loud he takes more time on his hair than I do!


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## whattoexpect

Bit of a Rant here....

Kellen, good for you to be over it already. I would still be ticked off.
Maybe I just assume that pregnant means that I should be getting my way and when he doesn't comply I am extra grumpy.

We have been out a few times socially and when I want to go I want to go. DH never seems to be on the same timetable, especially since he has realized that he has a built in Designated Driver and can drink all he likes.

It has resulted in a few fights, I just feel like I am the only one that has to make any changes to my life for this baby.....my friends that are already moms tell me to get used to it, but I guess I had dreams of an equality....

wow, feels good to get that out, I go around being bitter inside cause it seems crazy I mean after all, I really wanted this. We had to do fertility treatments to get preganat and I do realize how amazingly blessed we are, but a girl feels what she feels right?

Rant over :)


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## Kellen

Whatoexpect,

That was no where near as flaming as my rant. I totally understand and sympathize with you about being forced into a DD position. I would be angry too if my DH wasn't willing to at least change a few things in order to compromise.


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## SierraJourney

Hopefully the changes will come with time. My DH admitted the other day how "immature" and "stupid" some of his friends are (I've been trying to tell him this for YEARS!) I'm not just talking about "boys being boys"---but these were the friends he grew up with---they drink beyond comprehension, bash women, trash talk, don't have jobs, smoke way too much, think that going out to the bar is the only "cool" thing to do, etc. And of course my DH is not like that (how he turned out so well, I don't know), and he only hangs out with them like twice a year (they live 3 hours a way---but one happens to be his older brother, so that's difficult at times). However, the other day, for the FIRST time, DH told me how ridiculous they act and it's stupid to hang out with them (yay! Maybe a victory!?) We'll see what he does come hunting season (they all go hunting together the first week of November). I don't want to take friends from him, but I think he would be a lot better off if he would hang out with his good friends instead of them. So....I'm hoping he "wises up" and decides since he is going to be a father soon that he shouldn't be hanging out with such bad influences (he has strong will power, but they peer pressure him A LOT).

Haha---I'm not really sure where all of that came from. .. but I guess what I'm saying is that hopefully your DH will be able to step-up to the plate and make some changes along with you, whattoexpect. Maybe it just takes time? And you are definitely not alone. ..I think all women make more changes than men for a baby. . .but he should at least be making some.


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## SierraJourney

GUESS WHAT?!?! I'm so excited! Work said they would let me work from home for 6 months after baby is born as a "trial-basis"!!! They said if it works, they'll keep me on for good, and they'll use me as a model for other people to start working from home!!!! This is the best news ever! I get to stay home with my baby and still be able to provide the finances we need!!!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance:


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## wamommy

Hello ladies :D I sure missed a lot! I went to my Mom's house on the beach for a few days to "relax." I ended up being the family nanny as all of the other adults relaxed and I watched all of the kids, but oh well! It was still nice to get away. I also finally told my Mom about the baby, and she seemed genuinely excited. Phew! No more hiding for me!

Kellen and whattoexpect, I totally understand being upset with your DH's actions, and being pregnant certainly compounds it. Luckily my DH doesn't drink, but he's still the king of being late and not contributing around the house... sigh... I'm sorry it's been rough on you guys. It will get better, at least that's what I keep telling myself! :dohh:

As far as weight gain, I've gained 2 pounds so far... but I started out this pregnancy 10 pounds above my "norm." I feel gigantic, and am very self-conscious about my weight, even though I haven't gained a lot and I'm rather tall to begin with. I'm SUPER excited to get a big enough bump where it's the center of attention, and people don't even notice my other wobbly bits!

I hope everyone is doing better today, and I'm happy to be back!


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> GUESS WHAT?!?! I'm so excited! Work said they would let me work from home for 6 months after baby is born as a "trial-basis"!!! They said if it works, they'll keep me on for good, and they'll use me as a model for other people to start working from home!!!! This is the best news ever! I get to stay home with my baby and still be able to provide the finances we need!!!!!! :happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance:

Eeekk!!!! SO awesome, Sierra, congrats!!:happydance:


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## DragonflyWing

That's great news, Sierra!


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## Jo_Bean

Wow sierra that's great news! What job do you do?

I work from home but I wouldn't be allowed to care for baby the whole time. I will obviously have longer to spend with them and take them to nursery and pick them up etc. but being able to look after baby whilst working from home would be awesome!! Go you!!


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## GlitterandBug

DragonflyWing said:


> Haha I know, the things men say! The other day, DH told me that as the weeks go by, I look more and more like the Venus of Willendorf :wacko:
> 
> Just for reference, here's what the V of W looks like:

That is actually me right now :haha:

I've been so tired in work this week (which makes me fed up anyway)...is it too early to count down until I leave???

Sorry the nausea is still with some of you - hopefully it will be gone soon, FX!

I find that however lovely DH's can be, they really don't get pregnancy sometimes! Altho last night, mine came in from work and actually kissed my bump as well as me for the first time! 

Saw my consultant this week (am high risk because I get gestational blood pressure problems) and have a rough plan for my pregnancy. I'm terrified of another prolonged labour (36 hours with DD and ended up as forceps - she was back2back from 38 weeks so I failed to progress for ages) and had laser therapy on my perineum after because it broke down but she told me there was no reason it would happen again and why I shouldn't have an easier birth. I'll hold her to that come Feb!! :wacko:


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## GlitterandBug

That's great news Sierra! :thumbup:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks everyone! I'm still so excited! 

Jo-- I quote and service insurance for small businesses. Most of what I do is online or in a computer software program. I'll get about 3-7 phone calls a day, which they will transfer to my home phone----and if baby is crying, then they'll just have to get the message machine. ;)

We'll see how it goes. . .I'm not really sure I'll be able to keep up with all of my work while I'm watching baby---which DH said if that happens, we can get a babysitter part time or use daycare for part of the day. I'm really hoping to make it work that I can take care of baby and do my job. I think I'll just have to put in long hours----either get up after baby's early early morning feeding and start work then or else finish my work once baby goes to bed in the evening. It'll all be on a trial-run. I'm working for about 2 hours a day during maternity leave, too. . .so that will give me a bit of an idea of what I can handle. I'll also have a few meetings I'll need to go to, which I will need a babysitter for a couple of hours. 

Glitterbug---that is so cute that DH kissed your bump (and you!). My DH came into my office (he works at the same place as me) yesterday and said: "Wow, you look HUGE!". Haha. . .I'll be glad when he gets to the bump-kissing stage! :) 

wamommy---I can't wait for that big bump, either! :) :) 

I get my hair cut today---it's just a trim, but I'm so excited to get it looking good again. . .I feel it's been awfully limp and yucky since I got pregnant---here's hoping the stylist can do magic with it! :)


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## Kellen

Sierra, that is fantastic news! I am hoping that I'll be able to swing something like that as well. I am in the process of getting approved for telework. From what I've seen of my boss (who is currently about ready to pop her bump is so huge!) she is able to telework a good 4 out of 5 days during this last month of pregnancy.

Congrats, wamommy on finally getting to tell people! It is so nice to have it all out in the open.

We had our 14 week check up today and everything was GREAT! Midwife took about 10 seconds to find LO's heartbeat, which was beating at 150/minute. I guess this is (for the time being) proving my husband's guess of team blue correct (if we believe all the wives tales). We go back in 4 weeks for another check up and then 2 after that for our gender scan. I've been cleared for travel since I'm flying from Georgia to Oregon to visit family over Labor Day and was told it is perfectly safe to go through the airport scanners.


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## SierraJourney

Oooh Kellen--I really hope you can telework! That'll be awesome! Keep us posted! 

GREAT news on the checkup! I'm dying to find out the baby's gender. . .I just don't know how long I can wait! haha.

About the airport scanners. . .my doctor told me there wasn't enough research on them and it was up to me if I wanted to go through them or not. I ended up telling the airport people that I was pregnant and didn't want to go through the scanners. They were super nice about it and just took me over to the side and a woman basically felt under my arpits and along my sides to see if I was "hiding" anything. I wore a really simple dress that would have been hard to hide anything in. . .so they really didn't have to do much. I've read a lot that they are perfectly safe, but I just didn't want to take any chances since I mc in May and I was still early pregnant at the time of my trip. Totally up to you, but I wanted to let you know you have options :)

I got my first stranger comment about my pregnancy today!!!! Woohoo! :) I was just sitting at the hair salon and this woman walks in to get her hair done as well and she said, "Wow, you're brave wearing high-heels and being pregnant!" :haha: It makes me wonder if I should switch to flat shoes, but I was so glad that someone noticed I was pregnant and not fat!! :) HOORAY!


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## Kellen

I specifically asked the midwife and she said that she has read research that shows that the scanners have minimal to no effect on the baby. It would be a radiation concern, but they don't give off enough to be scared now that I am in the second trimester. Since I'm flying out of a huge international airport that takes an 1hr+ to get through security I'll probably risk it. At a smaller airport with less lines I would probably ask to be taken aside.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> I specifically asked the midwife and she said that she has read research that shows that the scanners have minimal to no effect on the baby. It would be a radiation concern, but they don't give off enough to be scared now that I am in the second trimester. Since I'm flying out of a huge international airport that takes an 1hr+ to get through security I'll probably risk it. At a smaller airport with less lines I would probably ask to be taken aside.

Oh yeah, yikes... those international airports can take forever! I was flying out of smaller ones, which may be why I had such an easy time. :)


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## Kellen

We live in Atlanta so I get to deal with killer traffic and really grumpy TSA people! However, I will say that the lines are not as long as they are at the Honolulu International Airport. For a few years I was flying back and forth from California to Hawaii with some regularity and their lines are horrible! Not only do you have to go through a scan, but you also have to put your luggage through a scan before you can pick up your ticket. Something about bugs...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> We live in Atlanta so I get to deal with killer traffic and really grumpy TSA people! However, I will say that the lines are not as long as they are at the Honolulu International Airport. For a few years I was flying back and forth from California to Hawaii with some regularity and their lines are horrible! Not only do you have to go through a scan, but you also have to put your luggage through a scan before you can pick up your ticket. Something about bugs...

Eww that's kind of gross. . .I wonder what kind of bugs they are worried about? Weird. ..


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## munchkinlove

My sono went great!!! everything is accounted for and everything looked good!!! they put me ahead from 12 +5 to 13+1 but im just going to leave my ticker the same for now...my due date is still the same. It was amazing to see it moving it was doing flips and kicking the whole time heart beat was in the 140's and nice and strong!!!
We are both thinking its a boy based on the head....i guess we will find out in 7 weeks!!:cloud9:
https://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/dschristou/F4A5130B-FA8E-4017-8E35-D1D11E228553-14794-0000166164F75128.jpg
https://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/dschristou/DCBE4D34-4290-436C-BA55-75BCA0835CC9-14794-000016617866107B.jpg


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## Kellen

Congrats on the fantastic pictures, Munchkin! That is exciting. It is so awesome to be able to see a wiggly baby. :) Love the pictures!


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## SierraJourney

Munchkin---those pictures are so adorable!! Congratulations!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra - that is awesome about the job!!!! I am sure you can make it work out :thumbup:

Munchkin - they are amazing photos! So clear!


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## DragonflyWing

Great scan pics, Munchkin! Glad to hear it went so great :D

TMI- I just have to say that I'm super happy because I had the first normal poop in MONTHS! I have been so constipated and miserable. Every time I had to go to the bathroom it was painful and traumatizing, and sometimes I couldn't go at all for days on end. Turns out the secret weapons for me are prunes and fiber one bars ;)


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## Jo_Bean

:haha: DFW! That's great news!

I have the opposite problem iykwim!


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## wamommy

Hurray for poop! Seriously, I know what you mean and I never realized how much I took normal potty time for granted.

Munchkin, I love the pics!! They are incredibly clear, and the baby looks perfect :)

Glitter, it sounds like your first birth was so hard! It's good to hear they're working with you to make sure it's better this time. I had 2 fairly easy ones, so I'm afraid I'm due for a toughy!


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## GlitterandBug

Hooray for the poop!!

15 weeks today - I actually can't believe it! Still feels SO surreal!!


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## SierraJourney

YAY poop! :haha:

Anyone else still EXHAUSTED! I can't believe how tired I am. DH wanted to dtd last night and I just couldn't force myself to get enough energy. . . . I felt really bad because I've done this a lot to him. I'm just still sooooo tired! :(

I had a dream last night that I had twin babies and I went to tell everyone the names, and DH told me he didn't like those names anymore and we had to choose another one. Then he wouldn't choose! I was so aggravated by the time I woke up! :haha:

I took this last night to send to my mum. :) I'm getting bigger by the day!
 



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## DragonflyWing

What a cute little bump you have there, Sierra! I have to get a picture of mine, but it seems to have gotten smaller. I'm hoping that's just a decrease in bloat and not something to worry about. Yep, I'm still pretty tired. Last night I went to bed before DH even got home from work (about 9:30pm).

My next ultrasound is on Tuesday...I'm kind of nervous. I know it's unlikely, but I'm afraid they'll tell me I lost a twin. I still feel flutters, so I know at least one is still in there, but it's been a long time since I saw them, so I worry a little.


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> I so need to go bra shopping, hating wire ones now.
> 
> 
> Dragon - i have gained about 3 kilo so far, 6.6lbs? Think I am going to be massiiiive!!!
> 
> https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_DA06F3A2.jpg
> 
> Breast feeding is fab for weight loss, I lost all my baby weight with my first in 3 months. It went straight from me back to baby! Doctor said the baby's weight gain in the first 3 months was amazing! :)

Pheww.....thanks Helena I have been reading all the post on weight gain and was about to go on a diet:haha: until i read yours!I have gained 3kilos already and i feel like an elephant already!!!I ganed 10kilos with my first pregnancy but hoping I dont gain that much


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---I completely understand your worry! I worry about that all of the time. My next appointment isn't until September 6th, and I'm so scared that I won't hear a heartbeat. :( I think it's really normal to be worried. I can't imagine what you're going through---it's hard enough to worry/keep track of ONE---I can't even fathom TWO! :) 

I'm sure everything will be splendid! I do hope you share pictures with us---your two little beans are SOoooooo cute!! :)


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## wamommy

Sierra, your bump is too cute! It's great that you're taking pics to keep track, so when baby's born you can look back. My next scan is the day before yours! Funny, it seems like we're right on the same schedule.

Kim, it's ok, I'm right there with you guys! I read a bunch of threads where people compare weight gains at 20 weeks or more, and I just know by then I'll be a house. I refuse to diet, and I don't always eat the healthiest options :blush: but I figure calories are calories at this point, and my prenatal will take care of the really important stuff. I've spent too many years trying to get OVER hating my body. It seems like while I'm carrying a life inside me I should be especially in love with it, but I absolutely have my "fat" days.

Dragonflywing, I can't wait to see your scan pics!! I bet the difference is amazing. They've had so much time to grow, it'll be so awesome!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---hooray for being on the same schedule! I'm a bit jealous, though, because you'll get a scan! Mine is only a check up and a heartbeat! (Which I'm still thrilled about!). Looks like my only other scan will be my 20 week scan.. ..but I might order a private one either before or after that to double-check gender. ;) 

I totally agree---this is our time to LOVE our bodies! I tend to stare at mine every morning in the mirror--yes, it's very different than it was before, but it's my baby in there .. .and that makes me love it all the more. :cloud9:

DH commented on the change in my bbs this morning. . . mostly, my nipples! Crazy how much they have changed! Yikes! :)


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## Kellen

Sierra, looks like our DH's are on the same track. Mine commented that my nipples seem to be eating the rest of my BBs... thanks, I love you too! I have to wait another 6 weeks for my next scan, which is at 20 weeks for gender.
I am looking forward to seeing all those updated pictures! DH took a bump picture for me Wednesday, but it is still on the camera. I should eventually upload that...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> Sierra, looks like our DH's are on the same track. Mine commented that my nipples seem to be eating the rest of my BBs... thanks, I love you too! I have to wait another 6 weeks for my next scan, which is at 20 weeks for gender.
> I am looking forward to seeing all those updated pictures! DH took a bump picture for me Wednesday, but it is still on the camera. I should eventually upload that...


:haha: sooo funny! Mine said, "Wow--those things are like sticking out an inch from your body!" As well as: "I think the texture has changed!" :dohh: 

Glad I'm not the only one who has to wait until 20 weeks! My goodness it seems like forever! 

And. . .upload BUMP PICTURE please!!!! :)


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## DragonflyWing

As I was getting dressed this morning, DH said "have you been gaining weight?" I whipped around and must have been glaring daggers at him, because he burst out laughing and was like "I'm just kidding, I swear!" :haha: He knows I actually _haven't_ been gaining weight, and he's concerned about it. Still not funny! He did say that it's very obvious I'm pregnant now when I'm undressed. I still think I just look bloated. I'll take a picture later and upload it for you to see.


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## wamommy

Sierra, I WISH my next appointment was a scan! It's just a check-up, heart beat, etc. My next scan is October 3rd, for the anatomy and gender. I can't wait! It seems like a lifetime away.

As for nipples, I haven't seen a huge difference, but my cup size has exploded. I had to buy new bras and was SHOCKED at what size I'd become. Speaking of, why do maternity shirts never make enough room for a pregnant woman's bbs? They add all of this beautiful flowy fabric for the belly, and then the top section is for a stinkin A cup:shrug:

Ok, ok Sierra, I'll post the pic my DH made fun of. It's a week old, and I swear I've grown since then, but here it is! Don't mind the closet in the background. My DDs took over my walk-in a long time ago :blush:
 



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## SierraJourney

Awww wamommy your bump is soooo cute!! :) love it!!

I've had the opposite problem with maternity shirts. . . it seems the shoulders/top area of the shirt is way too big! I look like I'm swimming in them! :(


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy that's an adorable bump!

Here's mine...I guess it is kind of obvious:
 



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## wamommy

DragonflyWing, you look amazing! I can see a big change from the first pic :D

Sierra, that's funny that you've had the opposite problem with maternity shirts. I have super broad shoulders and am pretty tall, which I think is the problem. I have been sticking to non-maternity shirts in a size too big :blush:


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## Jo_Bean

Amazing bumps girls!!!! You all look gorgeous x


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## helena

Kim2012 said:


> helena said:
> 
> 
> I so need to go bra shopping, hating wire ones now.
> 
> 
> Dragon - i have gained about 3 kilo so far, 6.6lbs? Think I am going to be massiiiive!!!
> 
> https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_DA06F3A2.jpg
> 
> Breast feeding is fab for weight loss, I lost all my baby weight with my first in 3 months. It went straight from me back to baby! Doctor said the baby's weight gain in the first 3 months was amazing! :)
> 
> Pheww.....thanks Helena I have been reading all the post on weight gain and was about to go on a diet:haha: until i read yours!I have gained 3kilos already and i feel like an elephant already!!!I ganed 10kilos with my first pregnancy but hoping I dont gain that muchClick to expand...

I gained almost 17 or 18 kilos with my first I think!! Still, it all went afterwards. 10 is nothing. I will have gained that by 20 weeks!!


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## GlitterandBug

Love all your lovely bumps!! :thumbup:


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## helena

Back from camping today, it was fun. Sleeping on a thin mattress was ok, I got a special bucket with a lid for my hourly night pees and I had virtually no nausea for three days!! Yay!

Glad to hear you all have good news. Love the scan pics munchkin! And it's great news about your working from home Sierra. And what a cute bump!

Wamommy and dragnflywing, looking good!! X


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## Kellen

All of the bump pictures are awesome. I'm not a big fan of mine. DH decided to take a picture while I was making tired faces at him so I cropped out my head. He also kept wanting me to flash him... :haha: Men!

Anyways, I don't think my bump is all that awesome, but it is getting there. It looks better under clothes, but DH wanted a "bare belly shot" so that is what you're all getting. Uploading this is way more fun that writing about policy analysis and how policy problems should dictate whether or not to use quantitative or qualitative methods of analysis. Why did I think I really needed a doctorate? Oh that is right... the six figure salary I'd like to achieve!
 



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## GlitterandBug

My bump is disguised by a layer of post-DD bulge so it's not really looking all that great yet! Hoping I pop soon! :wacko:


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## wamommy

I think your bump is cute, Kellen! Your OH sounds like a jokester, but in a fun, good way.

GlitterandBug, I hear ya! I'll bet you'll pop super soon being your second.


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## GlitterandBug

wamommy said:


> I think your bump is cute, Kellen! Your OH sounds like a jokester, but in a fun, good way.
> 
> GlitterandBug, I hear ya! I'll bet you'll pop super soon being your second.

Hope so! I just look chunky still, lol!


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## helena

Lovely bump Kellen. Glitter bug, I also bet you will just pop overnight, I swear I did. It's like one day it moved up a bit and WHAM! Going swimming with my kids and some friends today, feeling a bit shy about showing my belly off since I feel I am too big too soon....but there is no hiding it in a bikini! ...unless I breathe in the whole time!?hehe

Had a weird moment in the night says night, woke at 4 or 5 feeling like. Was shakin, like someone was shaking the bed or there was an earthquake. For about 8 or 10 seconds then it went. All very odd, not sure if it's pregnancy related or not. I had dinner, pasta, at 8 ish so it shouldn't have been low blood sugar etc should it? Was so weird, full body shaking feeling. Not sure if I imagined it now?!


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## SierraJourney

Wow helena, that's scary. It sounds like a fluke thing, but very weird. If it happens again, I'd definitely call the doctor!

Kellen---love the bump! I need to take some bare belly shots! 

I'm struggling with headaches a lot in the last week or so. I have one about every other day! :( Last night was a migraine that it hurt to move, look at light or anything. It's still slightly there this morning. . .I'm hoping I make it through work. I dont' know whether it's normal or something to be concerned about (the internet gives me conflicting advice!). Anyone else struggling with headaches? :(


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## Kellen

Sierra, I have struggled with headaches since I was a tiny person myself and can track my hormonal cycle via my migraines. However, with this pregnancy I have been having migraines more frequently for extended periods of time (try 72 hours instead of 12-20). My midwife said it was normal since the baby is producing extra hormones that tend to trigger my headaches anyways. The only advise they could give me was take Tylenol, drink a 20oz Coke, take Benedryl and try to pass out to avoid the pain.

Thanks for all the lovely comments on my "bump." I've taken to wearing my DH's jean shorts since none of mine will close right now! He finds it amusing. Now I look awesomely gantsa with my saggy pants that are way too long (I'm 5'5" he's 6'4"... just imagine!)


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## Jo_Bean

I think we need to see the shorts!!


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## Kellen

Jo_Bean said:


> I think we need to see the shorts!!

Haahahahahaahaha :haha:


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## Kellen

In other news today... I can feel my baby wiggling! This is only the second time and I'm about to burst into awesome happy tears at work. Also every family member in my phone now knows... lol I'm a bit OCD when it comes to baby updates.


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## DragonflyWing

That's awesome, Kellen! I haven't been feeling them much since my uterus moved up a bit, but I still feel a little nudge once a day or so.


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## Jo_Bean

Kellen :haha: I do the same. I was really busy this week and didn't send a weekly fruit update with the latest things the baby was doing and today when I spoke to my mum she said she was sad that she didn't get the weekly update last week.
I said, I will send you this week's on Thursday and she said "but I'll still get last week's too won't I?"

So at least I know my mum appreciates the text updates haha!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so sorry you're struggling with head aches. I get them too, usually one a day, and it lasts 2-3 hours. It's too weird. I'll be fine one minute, and then can barely move my eyeballs the next. I just drink a ton of water and wait it out. My poor kids are getting way too used to me saying, "PLEASE keep it down, my head hurts!" I'd say if it's something you're worried about, call your Doc and talk it over with them. Even if they say it's normal at least you'll have piece of mind. That's what they're there for!

It's great to hear that everyone is feeling movement! I'm almost positive that I have too, but am afraid to get too excited until I'm "sure." Sheesh... this is #3 I should recognize it!! Haha. I'd have to say feeling movement is the coolest thing about being pregnant :) 

Jo, that's so cute about your Mom! It's nice to know that she looks forward to and appreciates your updates. Is this her first grandchild?

Hope everyone is feeling well today!


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## Jo_Bean

Yep 1st grandchild on both sides of the family :D


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---so glad to hear I'm not the only one getting them! (But so sorry to hear you have them so often). It's so weird what our bodies go through! 

I haven't felt movement in a bit now. . .but I am still not completely sure what it feels like. . .and there are an awful lot of gas bubbles down there :haha: I can't wait until baby is bigger and gives me big strong kicks! :)


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## wamommy

Jo, exciting!! No wonder they're over the moon!!! This will be my Mom's 6th, so she's excited, but not in a oh-my-gosh-finally-a-grandbaby! way. It's ok though, in a way it takes some pressure off of me that my sister provided the first 3 grandbabies :)

Sierra, that's the weird thing about movement. It feels really similar to little gas bubbles at first, so it's so hard to tell. I always tell people to use one finger and LIGHTLY tap the back of your other hand. That's what it feels like to me at first. I "think" I felt it last night when I was lying on my side. I took a gigantic deep breath and felt that tapping for a second. So cool!


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## GlitterandBug

Sierra/wamommy - i'm suffering with headaches on and off too :cry: I'm still v anxious about the pregnancy which isn't helping but I don't think it's uncommon at this stage either to have them. Don't remember them with DD tho!!

Edit: Kellen - sorry, I missed that you were having headaches too :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I wish I would know for sure! I know I'm having gas bubbles, but sometimes it feels like gas bubbles when I know I'm not gassy! :haha: So, it probably is baby, but I really just can't wait for that reassurance that I know for sure it's baby! :)

Glitterandbug-I'm so sorry you're getting the headaches, too! They are horrible! :(


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## GlitterandBug

They do suck. Hoping they pass for us all soon :hugs:


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## GlitterandBug

Oh and the only way I can describe movement is like fluttery gas bubbles, like little 'pops' :thumbup: Can't wait til they're more regular and feel them everyday!


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## Blue_bear

MW appt today, so hoping to hear heartbeat!


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## helena

hav a great time blue bear! i am with you girls on the headaches, urgh. this last week has been bad for them. it has been supr ot here so i was blaming that but maybe its just the latest stage for us? hoping it passes soon. i have avoided taking paracetamol so far but it is rough. am going to drink extra water today and hope i dont get one again today. good luck avoiding yours girls. 

dreams going into overdive too.


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## Jo_Bean

For the headaches I've found a cool towel or flannel on my forehead and a little lie down helps. Also in the UK you can get these compresses that are cool and really help. They are called 4head.


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## wamommy

Wow, I didn't realize headaches were so common at this stage! I'm so sorry you're all having to deal with this too :(

Blue-bear, enjoy your appointment! So fun :)

I'm nervous as heck tonight. When I was at my OB last time she did a skin check along with the rest of my physical. I have a lot of moles, like a ton, and I don't get them checked every 6 months to a year like I'm supposed to. My OB found a couple that she said were "very concerning." Tomorrow morning I go to see a dermatologist to have him look at them and probably biopsy them :( I'm pretty afraid of it all. Never mind the pregnant lady standing in her underwear while a doctor checks every inch of her skin (embarrassing!!!!) but I'm terrified that one of the moles may be "bad". Sigh... I guess it's better to know than not to?

Sorry to vent a bit, just scared tonight! As if pregnancy doesn't come with enough of its own worries!


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## Jo_Bean

Blue_bear said:


> MW appt today, so hoping to hear heartbeat!

Good luck honey - let us know how it goes!


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## helena

good luck wamommy, its great you are getting such attntion though, if they find anything suspicious it can be dealt with swiftly. i think my sister in law had to have a couple of moles removed or sorted out as they were suspicious. it will all be fine, and wasnt a big deal. they are being cautious. but you are right, like us pregnant ladies need any more worries!!? 
it will be over soon xx

i had a big pulling sensation in my tummy as i sat diwn last night. high up by my belly button. i am secrtly worrying it was some sort of placental rippage?! ovr the top perhaps...but it was so sharp and sudden and shrot. no bleeding though so i am trying to not worry. trying!..

just survived a belated birthday party for my 2 and 4 year olds. we had builders here last month so couldnt do it then, plus i felt so awful in july! there were no games, just 8 kids playing on a trampoline and paddling pool etc, but quite tiring! fed them hot dogs and banana splits and gave th grown ups bread cheese and salad. now for a quiet afternoon!!


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## GlitterandBug

Blue_bear said:



> MW appt today, so hoping to hear heartbeat!

Good luck!!

I had the rudest dreams last night :blush: (and poor DH wasn't in any!! :haha:)


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## SierraJourney

Blue-bear--so exciting that you have an appointment---I hope it goes well! Report back! :)

About the headaches---my sister said she got them, too---she said taking a Tylenol (or other pregnancy-approved pain reliever) and drinking a glass of Coca-Cola helped her. (Her midwife says the caffeine in the coke opens up blood vessels in your head which get the pain to go away). I think I might try that for the next bad headache. (I still have a bit of "leftover pain" from Sunday's headache, but not bad enough to merit any action).

wamommy--keep us updated! I'm sorry you have more to worry about. Hopefully they'll have a quick fix if any are considered "bad". (My mother had a few "bad" ones, and they just removed them and she's fine!)

helena---no bleeding is a good sign. It sounds like it was probably just major round ligament pain! Crazy how bad it hurts sometimes! I hope it's no more than that for you!

Glad the birthday party went well---that's a lot of work!! Take a nap today---you deserve it!

I still can't get over my fatigue. It's been super bad lately (like literally, I work 8-5, then sit on the couch until I go to bed. :( ) DH and I are going to try to take a bike ride tonight to see if that helps---we're wondering if I need mor exercise to energize myself. I hope it works! I feel like I'm wasting my pre-baby time! And poor DH, I just feel like I give him hardly any attention. :( I'm so tired and uncomfortable most of the time that I just want to either lie on the couch by myself or watch tv with him. We're in the same room, but I feel we don't "connect" much anymore because I'm so exhausted. Anyone else feel like they're neglecting DH? :( I know he understands, but I wish I could be more "loving and doting". :( Let's home the exercise helps!


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## helena

oh i feel like a pretty rubbish wife too! i am ok by day but come 7pm i am done and i also sit like a sack of potatos on the sofa. i usually manage to make dinner these days beyond throwing in a frozen pizza, so there is some improvement but i still feel a bit of a let down when DH is cleaning up the kitchen then working on renovating the downstairs of our house and sorting the washing too, while i sit!! still no sexy action here either, bed is for sleep! i am also so nervous of upsetting things in there. i read n tri 2 of a girl who got regular contractions after sex and was so worried about baby. i must look for an update on her post. but the thought terrifies me! DH doesnt seem to mind at all so i shouldnt worry, but i feel i should be at least slightly more affetionate that a quick kiss as i literally doze off!!


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## DragonflyWing

SierraJourney said:


> I still can't get over my fatigue. It's been super bad lately (like literally, I work 8-5, then sit on the couch until I go to bed. :( ) DH and I are going to try to take a bike ride tonight to see if that helps---we're wondering if I need mor exercise to energize myself. I hope it works! I feel like I'm wasting my pre-baby time! And poor DH, I just feel like I give him hardly any attention. :( I'm so tired and uncomfortable most of the time that I just want to either lie on the couch by myself or watch tv with him. We're in the same room, but I feel we don't "connect" much anymore because I'm so exhausted. Anyone else feel like they're neglecting DH? :( I know he understands, but I wish I could be more "loving and doting". :( Let's home the exercise helps!

Yes! I feel like I'm neglecting my DH too. I'm just so tired most of the time that I don't have the energy to really interact with anyone. I spend most of the time at home just lying on the couch reading. Plus, I go to bed early, so I miss out on time with him there, too. We used to be night owls together, but my work schedule changed and then I got pregnant...so I go to bed at about 10pm, and he doesn't come to bed until around 4am most nights.


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## DragonflyWing

Had my ultrasound today! Both babies were kicking up a storm, waving their little legs and arms, and flipping around. It was awesome! They're both doing great, heart rates of 157 and 158 bpm, measuring right on track. The ultrasound tech said she thinks it might be a boy and a girl, but it's still early, and they weren't in great positions to see a lot of detail.

The photos they gave us are pretty poor quality, but you can see how big they've gotten!
 



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## wamommy

WOW DragonflyWing!! That's awesome news! :happydance: It really is amazing, isn't it? I'm so glad things went well, and they're getting huge!

Blue_bear, how did your scan go? Can't wait to hear!

I went to the dermatologist today and they took 3 biopsies. He said they couldn't do more than 3 because insurance would consider it "cosmetic" and not cover it. What a load of hooey, I say!! I have to go back in 6 months to have the others done, but the majorly worrisome 3 were removed for testing. I'm sure it's fine, I'm just such a worrier by nature that a little life inside me is really about all that I can handle... anything more and I go bonkers!


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## wamommy

Oh, and I hear ALL of you on neglecting DH. I'm with Helena, in that I've had a couple of losses and am scared that it will hurt the baby. We haven't dtd since my bfp!! Haha, poor guy. Usually our toddlers are enough of an excuse not to be able to make time, but at some point I assume his feelings will be hurt, lol.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Dragon!!!! Sooooo cute! If I were to ever have twins, I thought a girl and boy would be just wonderful! :) I'm so happy that everything is looking so good!!

wamommy--fx'd that everything comes out fine! Keep us updated!

Blue_bear---thinking about you and hoping you have wonderful news from you appointment!

Glad I'm not the only one neglecting DH! I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the only one spending the majority of my time on the couch! :haha:


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## Blue_bear

Sorry for late update, had a very stressful morning in the end. MW couldnt find the heartbeat...she insisted she thought everything was still ok and its just too early and sent me on my way.
I broke down when i got home, how was i supposed to wait until the 3 rd oct for my next scan?! The not knowing. So i begged DH and we agreed it was worth paying for a private one.
Got in straight away and imediately saw my wiggly baby! That reassurance was worth every penny. Amazing to see how much it had grown too. Dh and i both thought girl when we came out so we might ask at 20week scan after all but im still not sure, i just couldnt help looking! 

Thank you to everyone thinking of me! Xx


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## wamommy

Oh, thank goodness, Blue_bear!! How scary! I'm so glad you and your DH decided to get a scan, and that all is well with the wiggly one :) Maybe it was meant to be that you see your bubs today!


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## helena

dragon , great san pics! congratulations. ooh i couldnt help but have a 20 week scan, i am so impatient! i bet you do!..a girl and a boy on the cards is exciting. but no doubt any combo and you will be over th moon.
blue bear, wow what a scary experience! did you tell the first woman that you had a private scan and saw baby? i would, so she can put it in her notes. and learn to practice more!! lol. glad it worked out great.

i didnt have a headache yesterday and decidedit is definatley linked to caffeine. the day i didnt have any i got my headache. i made sure to have tea yesterday and i was fine despit it being hot hot hot and having a kids party here. so today i wil have atleast 2 teas.

have a great day all xx


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## GlitterandBug

Blue_bear said:


> Sorry for late update, had a very stressful morning in the end. MW couldnt find the heartbeat...she insisted she thought everything was still ok and its just too early and sent me on my way.
> I broke down when i got home, how was i supposed to wait until the 3 rd oct for my next scan?! The not knowing. So i begged DH and we agreed it was worth paying for a private one.
> Got in straight away and imediately saw my wiggly baby! That reassurance was worth every penny. Amazing to see how much it had grown too. Dh and i both thought girl when we came out so we might ask at 20week scan after all but im still not sure, i just couldnt help looking!
> 
> Thank you to everyone thinking of me! Xx

That's such a relief and good news!! Oooh a little pink bump maybe - exciting!!



helena said:


> dragon , great san pics! congratulations. ooh i couldnt help but have a 20 week scan, i am so impatient! i bet you do!..a girl and a boy on the cards is exciting. but no doubt any combo and you will be over th moon.
> blue bear, wow what a scary experience! did you tell the first woman that you had a private scan and saw baby? i would, so she can put it in her notes. and learn to practice more!! lol. glad it worked out great.
> 
> i didnt have a headache yesterday and decidedit is definatley linked to caffeine. the day i didnt have any i got my headache. i made sure to have tea yesterday and i was fine despit it being hot hot hot and having a kids party here. so today i wil have atleast 2 teas.
> 
> have a great day all xx

I think my headaches are partly linked to not having caffeine either - I need to have a cup of tea (or two) a day as well.


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## Jo_Bean

Oh I am so pleased Blue Bear! I wouldn't have been able to cope with that either, what an awful MW! How can she just tell you to go away and not worry! I would have done exactly the same! If that happens to me I am going to refuse to leave until they refer me to the hospital, or like you, book a private one in.

I'm so pleased everything was ok! :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Blue_bear! How frightening! I'm so so happy you got a private scan and your little one was wiggling around! That's just terrific news! :) Congrats!

I don't think my headaches are connected to caffeine. .. I haven't had any caffeine since March when I was ttc! I have the occassional caffeine-free tea, but that's it. I've been waking up with headaches. . . I'm wondering if I grind my teeth or something while I sleep . . or I must be doing something in my sleep that aggravates my poor head! 

Anyone worried about sleeping on your back yet? I've heard mixed things about it. . . my sister slept on her back her entire pregnancy. My MW said after 20 weeks try not to sleep on your back. . . but I start out on my side and end up waking up on my back EVERY night. . .so I don't know how I'm going to prevent it. :( What are your guys' thoughts?


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## Jo_Bean

I wouldn't be too worried about sleeping on my back. I think that it will just become uncomfortable to do it before it could cause any problems. I'm sure our bodies will tell us when to roll over :D


----------



## Kim2012

Kellen said:


> All of the bump pictures are awesome. I'm not a big fan of mine. DH decided to take a picture while I was making tired faces at him so I cropped out my head. He also kept wanting me to flash him... :haha: Men!
> 
> Anyways, I don't think my bump is all that awesome, but it is getting there. It looks better under clothes, but DH wanted a "bare belly shot" so that is what you're all getting. Uploading this is way more fun that writing about policy analysis and how policy problems should dictate whether or not to use quantitative or qualitative methods of analysis. Why did I think I really needed a doctorate? Oh that is right... the six figure salary I'd like to achieve!


Awwww cute bump Kellen!!
Tell me about it , being here is so much fun than working on a doctorate!I am in the same situation as you and the past months havent seen any work done in that area.am Dreading meeting my supervisor on monday:nope: what your area of speciality for your doctorate ?If you dont mind me asking


----------



## Kim2012

SierraJourney said:


> Blue_bear! How frightening! I'm so so happy you got a private scan and your little one was wiggling around! That's just terrific news! :) Congrats!
> 
> I don't think my headaches are connected to caffeine. .. I haven't had any caffeine since March when I was ttc! I have the occassional caffeine-free tea, but that's it. I've been waking up with headaches. . . I'm wondering if I grind my teeth or something while I sleep . . or I must be doing something in my sleep that aggravates my poor head!
> 
> Anyone worried about sleeping on your back yet? I've heard mixed things about it. . . my sister slept on her back her entire pregnancy. My MW said after 20 weeks try not to sleep on your back. . . but I start out on my side and end up waking up on my back EVERY night. . .so I don't know how I'm going to prevent it. :( What are your guys' thoughts?

What are the problems with sleeping on your back? I sleep in any possition that is comfortable i even sleep on my bump thats the most comfortable position and by the time I wake up I am sleeping on my back


----------



## helena

It's meant add pressure on some vein or other and result in problems with blood flow.
I also struggle to avoid my back. I bought a pregnancy pillow, a long sausage C shaped one. Makes being on your side so much better! We are told to lie on our left side ideally later on.


----------



## Jo_Bean

yes, left is best for circulation apparently :thumbup:


----------



## helena

15 weeks! Pear! Yeah!! congrats everyone!!


----------



## Jo_Bean

I didn't even realise it was Thursday today!! That last week went quick!!


----------



## GlitterandBug

16 weeks for me! :happydance:


----------



## helena

Wowee glitter - you are an avocado! Yay! X


----------



## SierraJourney

Hooray!! 15 weeks! (And 16 for Glitter!) :) It's really hard to believe! I'm so happy!


----------



## DragonflyWing

Happy orange week (and avocado for Glitter)!!

Anyone else feel baby jump when you sneeze? Every time I sneeze, it's like a party in my tummy. Both babies jump all around for a few seconds. I don't think they can hear yet, so it must be from the sudden movement.


----------



## Jo_Bean

I think they can hear your voice now DWF, but yes I imagine it's vibrations or something too.

I've not felt mine at all, mind you, it has layers of flub to get through on my belly so it might not be for a while yet. I had those popping bubbles a week or so ago but nothing since, so maybe that was just gas :blush:

So I decided that instead of waiting for my MW to book my scan for me, I would just phone the hospital and book in the 20w scan (a.k.a gender scan) myself!

It's booked in for 27th Sep, exactly 20 weeks at 08:30 in the morning, so as soon as I could possibly get it! :haha:

I am beyond excited, in exactly 5 weeks time, I will know if I am carrying a daughter or a son! :wohoo:


----------



## DragonflyWing

Yay, that's great Jo! I have layers of flub too, lol...I think the only reason I can feel them already is because there are two. Otherwise I probably wouldn't feel anything yet. Pretty sure at least one of the placentas is anterior, too.


If I'm wearing maternity clothes, I look like I'm showing quite a bit (and have since 11 weeks)...but in my regular clothes I just look like I've gained weight :haha:. Funny thing is, I haven't actually gained anything!


----------



## SierraJourney

Jo---that's so exciting!!! I can't wait to find out what we all are having!! :) :)


----------



## wamommy

Woohooo!!! Happy 15 (and 16, glitter yay:) ) weeks everyone!! I really can't believe it. We're sure getting there!

Jo, I'm so glad you were able to book your own scan! Next month will be so exciting, when the blue or pink announcements start rolling in! Does anyone have a preference? 

I haven't felt baby move yet either!! DragonflyWing, you're so lucky! It truly is the absolute best thing about pregnancy, and I'm getting so impatient, lol. Ah well, if I remember right with the last 2 I didn't feel anything until about 16 weeks.


----------



## Jo_Bean

Thanks ladies! Yes, next month is going to be really exciting! Is everyone finding out? Or do we have any team yellow mum's to be?

I really don't have a preference, I can find plus points to have a boy or a girl. I secretly think it's a girl though!

DWF - I feel like that, in normal clothes I was just looking fatter, in maternity clothes I look pregnant, so I'm wearing maternity clothes from now on!! Well that and anything tight fitting doesn't fit anymore and jeans are very uncomfortable!
I bought some nice maternity maxi dresses the other day and I felt quite good in them, so I'm starting to actually enjoy it a bit now! It's true what they say, the 2nd tri is the honeymoon tri - or it has been for me so far!


----------



## GlitterandBug

Jo - my 20 weeks (well 21) week scan is the 27th too. Find out gender in 10 days - far too impatient to wait!!


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## Kim2012

My 20 week scan is on the 25th of Sept and have already started counting down!!I would like to have a girl as I already have a son.Funny part is all the dreams I have had so far have been of a boy......~I do hope they are wrong.

Has anyone done all the gender tests ? I bet i will try the baking soda one soon just for interest's sake!!


----------



## DragonflyWing

I'm really hoping that it's a boy and a girl...I would love one of each. I slightly prefer two girls over two boys, but I'll be happy with whatever they are :)

Feeling them move is absolutely the best part so far! Especially after seeing them dancing around on the ultrasound, it makes it even more special because I can picture them as they move. And it's weird knowing that they're moving around way more than I can even feel...the whole ultrasound they were jumping around and I couldn't feel a thing! I only feel them in certain positions or certain situations (like when I sneeze) so far. 

The second tri is shaping up to be great...the nausea is tapering off (I didn't take my Zofran this morning and so far so good *fingers crossed*) and I don't feel quite as exhausted (although I have a cold this week so I backslid a bit). Emotionally I'm pretty good, too...I haven't had any major hormonal mood swings, and I'm prone to depression, so that was a worry for me. Love it!

I wanted to do all those old wives tale gender tests- but my plans got foiled with the twins! I can't trust any of them (not like I could have with one :haha:)!


----------



## Jo_Bean

I've tried quite a few gender predictors! I think the last count was 7:2 in favour of a girl!

The red cabbage test, the baking soda test, the Chinese gender predictor, the wedding ring test...

I also found this one.

https://www.babycentre.co.uk/tools/baby-gender-predictor/


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## GlitterandBug

Just did that gender test - says girl!! :thumbup:


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## Jo_Bean

It said boy for me! Oooooh exciting, we shall see what happens!


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## Kim2012

:dohh::dohh:Baby centre gender predictor results for me says:

Based on your answers, the research gives you equal chances of having a boy or a girl.

Did the baking soda and it said girl!


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## Kim2012

DragonflyWing said:


> Yay, that's great Jo! I have layers of flub too, lol...I think the only reason I can feel them already is because there are two. Otherwise I probably wouldn't feel anything yet. Pretty sure at least one of the placentas is anterior, too.
> 
> 
> If I'm wearing maternity clothes, I look like I'm showing quite a bit (and have since 11 weeks)...but in my regular clothes I just look like I've gained weight :haha:. Funny thing is, I haven't actually gained anything!


I think I felt some movement in the morning when I was long overdue on the trip to the bathroom:happydance:been waiting to feel it again but none so far!

I agree with you DragonflyWing in normal clothes i just look fat , a collegue at work(who doesnt know yet) said to me 'mmmm you are losing your waist line watch what you eat'. and at home when i am in my maternity clothes DS(7) has devised a 'theory' that my bump is there on monday tuesday and wednesday and then it dissappears.God know he has watching closely every day!


----------



## DragonflyWing

Kim2012 said:


> I agree with you DragonflyWing in normal clothes i just look fat , a collegue at work(who doesnt know yet) said to me 'mmmm you are losing your waist line watch what you eat'.

OMG who would say that to someone? That's so rude. :wacko:


----------



## Blue_bear

My neighbour said it looked like im loosing weight, made my day! 

My 20week (21wk) isnt until 3rd Oct. Cant decide whether to find out or not but we both thought girl from the private scan on tues. 
She did say i have a anterior placenta so wont feel anything soon but im pretty sure i have been feeling movement anyway!


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## SierraJourney

That gender test said girl for me! (DH thinks it's a girl, too, but I know he really wants a boy. :) ) I need to try the baking soda test soon! At first I thought I was having a girl, now I have all of these suspicions that it's a boy! So, I'm 50/50. lol For WEEKS my neice (3 yrs old) insisted that the baby is a boy. . .but then she suddenly changed her mind yesterday and says it's a girl now! So. . . who knows! But we're definitely finding out! :)


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## wamommy

I just did the test, it said girl! I did the baking soda one for fun and got an inconclusive result... it sort of foamed a bit, but I don't know what that means!

To be honest, I think it's another girl, and I'm ok with it! Maybe we're supposed to raise only girls? We do make amazing girls!

Kim2012, that is so incredibly rude what your coworker said! Poo on them!! :ninja:

Blue_bear, our gender scan is on the same day!!

How does the ring gender test work? I know if it makes circles it's one way, swinging is the other... but I don't remember which is which!


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## helena

That online test told me it could be a girl, which is what the sonographer said at 13 weeksbut she said she couldn't be certain. Scan at 21 weeks, 4 October, too far away!!

Ok, just had a huge dinner, lasagne mmmmm, but feeling pretty massive..https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_A5F67316.jpg

Not feeling movements or much nausea so don't really believe there is a baby there, not liking this slightly worrying stage. I just don't know if it's all ok...I realize now how comforting the tiredness and nausea were! My nausea is very mild now. And my appetite is so back! But not feeling pregnant is odd- I am still prodding my chest to check its still tender!!
Am so jealous of you guys feeling baby already!!! Great you can possibly feel Despite the placenta blue bear.
Maybe tomorrow will be my day?!
Kim - I hope you know them well, or so rude!!


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## SierraJourney

Aww your bump is cute helena!! :) 

I woke up last night moaning in pain. . .I was having cramps. . .I got up, took a poo, then went back to bed. Still having some cramps this morning. . . It's a bit unnerving, but since there's no bleeding, I'm assuming it's just normal cramps? 

DH & I were kind of freaked out last night. . . we both got home from work (we work together) to find a stranger parked in our driveway. We got out of our car and the individual starting claiming he is the old owner's nephew (we just bought this house a year ago), and the old owner moved to Pakistan, but they told him to come over and to the house and grab the stuff that they left (he claimed they left tons of expensive purses, watches, a guitar, silverware, pots and pans, etc). We told him that the house was totally cleaned out before we moved in--we specified that it should be cleaned out before we bought it. He kept insisting that their stuff was in our house, pulled out a key and said it was the key to our house, then went into this long story about how he'll call the owner and they'll tell us that the stuff is in there. We insisted that we are the owners, then he went into another story about he has been here several times and has always seen "that car" (he pointed to my husbands car that we don't usually drive to work) parked in the driveway, same spot every day---said he has been to all the windows and doors knocking, but we were never home, etc. It was all very creepy and his story didn't match up. We finally got him to leave, the we called the police who came over and took a report and are trying to keep an eye out for him. . . but there isn't much they can do. :( Now I'm afraid that while we are at work all day something will happen to our house. It's really unnerving to know someone has been to our houses MULTIPLE times while we are not there! :( I hope he was just crazy and will leave us alone. . . . :( :(


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## Jo_Bean

OMG that's scary! Is there nothing the police can do at all? I would be really freaked out too!


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## helena

Ooh Sierra, I would be creeped out too!! Oh weird. Any way you can contact the previous owner yourself?? Oh horrid.

I have also had a few more cramps and aches this week, guess things are growing? I added that between now and 20 weeks baby doubles in size!


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## SierraJourney

The police took down a description of the man and his vehicle, but without ID'ing him, they won't know for sure who he is or his intent. If they find the vehicle, they are going to pull it over and ID the guy to see if he is a felon or not. 

helena--we plan on calling the realtor once they open to see if he called there (we suggested he call there because the realtor was the one who took everything out of the house, as the owners moved 5 yeas before the house was sold). We will ask the realtor to contact the previous owner and discuss it with him, since we have none of his contact information. 

I was contemplating not coming to work today and staying home, but there isn't much I can do besides call the police---and the police are going to keep driving by our house to make sure everything looks okay today. Plus, a pregnant woman by herself in the house doesn't sound very safe to me. :( We'll go home at lunchtime and make sure everything looks like it did when we left. :( Until then, we just pray that he doesn't come back! :( 

It's amazing that baby doubles in size in just 5 weeks! WOW!!! I'm so in love with this baby already!


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra, have you changed the locks since you bought the house? If not, I highly recommed you do that immediately. It's creepy enough that he's been skulking around outside your house, but you wouldn't want to come home to find this man had been _inside_ your house because he had a key! That's so crazy!


----------



## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> Sierra, have you changed the locks since you bought the house? If not, I highly recommed you do that immediately. It's creepy enough that he's been skulking around outside your house, but you wouldn't want to come home to find this man had been _inside_ your house because he had a key! That's so crazy!

Yes, we changed the locks as soon as we moved in. . . thank goodness! :) So. . .unless he breaks in, he won't be able to get inside with his key.


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## Kellen

Wow... teach me to go away on business for three days, you all have been busy with scans and scares and stuff... oh my!

Kim, I am currently working towards a Doctor of Public Administration. My degrees are rather eclectic. My MS is in Emergency Management and my BA is in Global Studies and Maritime Affairs.

I have found out that I can make my baby wiggle by eating chocolate! Anytime I consume chocolate (ie the brownies I made or the chocolate covered pretzels DH brought home) about 5 minutes later it feels like Sprite fizzing in my uterus. I figure this must by my LO moving around because it certainly isn't gas.

Also I'm working on a 3 day migraine. It started Wednesday night while I was on the road at a training seminar and has continued through today. Tylenol takes the bite away and makes it possible for me to be at work. If I keep myself occupied I can push the pain away. I got migraines that were tracked to my cycle before pregnancy. Now they have doubled in frequency and length. My MW says it is due to all the extra hormones LO is helping to produce. Caffeine doesn't work and just makes me wired because I generally just drink water.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen! I'm sorry about your migraine! 3 days is horrible!! :( I hope it disappears soon! 

And, now, I think at lunchtime I'm going to go home and find some chocolate to consume to see if it works for me! :) :) :)


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## Kellen

Sierra, I know how scary it can be having your home threatened. Last year we had our apartment (which we no longer live in) broken into when I took DH out to lunch. Do you have any neighbors that you know or are semi-friendly with? You could start up an unofficial neighborhood watch program. Who knows, maybe this guy has tried that on other people in your area as well.


----------



## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> Sierra, I know how scary it can be having your home threatened. Last year we had our apartment (which we no longer live in) broken into when I took DH out to lunch. Do you have any neighbors that you know or are semi-friendly with? You could start up an unofficial neighborhood watch program. Who knows, maybe this guy has tried that on other people in your area as well.

Aww---that's horrible! I don't understand people sometimes. . . :( 

Yes, we have a few neighbors that we notified, so hopefully they'll keep their eyes open and watch over our house while we're gone!!


----------



## Kellen

SierraJourney said:


> Kellen said:
> 
> 
> Sierra, I know how scary it can be having your home threatened. Last year we had our apartment (which we no longer live in) broken into when I took DH out to lunch. Do you have any neighbors that you know or are semi-friendly with? You could start up an unofficial neighborhood watch program. Who knows, maybe this guy has tried that on other people in your area as well.
> 
> Aww---that's horrible! I don't understand people sometimes. . . :(
> 
> Yes, we have a few neighbors that we notified, so hopefully they'll keep their eyes open and watch over our house while we're gone!!Click to expand...

It was pretty awful. Ended up being our next door neighbor's 16 year old grandson and his gang buddies. But we had insurance and ended up upgrading all our computers, but have yet to replace the handgun that was stolen. None of it was ever recovered. :( Thankfully I back everything up (ie all my school files, family pictures, movies) on a TB hard-drive that they didn't take. Thankfully they weren't discerning thieves and didn't steal my $500 watch that was on the counter, my grandma's pearls, my $1500 Martin guitar or any personal identification papers.:growlmad:


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## SierraJourney

Wow. .. that's just horrible!! :( Glad they didn't steal more, but still---that's really hard to have anything stolen.


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## Kellen

I felt blessed that they left my kitten alone. We had only gotten her the week before. They were kind enough to shut her in the bathroom with her water, food and litter box. I would have been devastated if she had gotten out and lost. :(

In other random news Tropical Storm Isaac better not mess up my travel plans for next week!. I'm beginning to become excited about seeing my family after having moved away (due to that whole better jobs, lower housing cost thing...). So I really don't want to have to cancel. Looks like Isaac will become a hurricane, but it is still up in the air (bad hurricane pun!) about where he is going to make landfall.


----------



## wamommy

Sierra, yikes! How horrible to have to deal with this weirdo. I hope he STAYS away now that he knows you guys can ID him and have probably called the police. What a turd :growlmad:

Kellen, it's funny what you said about chocolate! Last night I was eating Sour Patch Kids, and I'm certain baby started knocking around for 10-15 minutes! I rarely eat candy, but I may have to start eating it more, since I just sat still and enjoyed every little tap and tickle :happydance:

Helena, your bump is beautiful!! It's growing so much, and is perfectly round and cute :)


----------



## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen---yeah, you are right there with all of that--I hope you can still travel!!!

I forgot to tell you all---we are getting our first piece of baby furniture delivered today!! I'm so so excited! It's a really nice armoire that was given to us by some relatives. The IL's are bringing it up this evening. We have an older house, so the ceiling slopes down to meet the wall, so I'll have to figure out a creative place to put it--I think there is one spot it'll probably fit. I'm so thrilled! I can't wait to see it and to get more furniture eventually! :) Sometimes DH and I lie in the baby's room dreaming about what it'll be like when a baby is in there. . . it's heaven. :)


----------



## Kellen

Sierra, that is super exciting! We haven't gotten any thing for the baby yet. We are still debating over whether or not to get a crib that eventually converts into a bed or a Play'n'Pac that we can just keep in our room.

The weather wouldn't really affect the airport, but rather my employment. If the storm hits and we activate I'll be given the option between going on vacation or staying and earning time and half, plus my normal salary.


----------



## SierraJourney

Oh wow. .. yeah that'd be a hard decision to make---I'd say if you don't need the extra money, go have fun! ;)

I think we're going to go with a crib that converts to a bed, but will probably get a PackNPlay, too, for when we travel (we travel quite a bit on the weekends---we're musicians and usually have concerts on the weekends where we'd bring baby with us along with one of our mom's to watch the baby while we are performing). 

Expensive to buy both, but I think we'll get good use out of both of them! (I might even borrow my sister's PackNPlay, since she isn't using it anymore. . )


----------



## Kellen

We can always use the extra money, especially with a sea-monkey on the way (which is apparently the least offensive term I've come up with that DH will use in conjunction with our LO). I work for the government and it would actually be a boost to my professional career and resume if I worked a disaster/hurricane. So far all I've done in the six years since I started was be involved in drills and exercises.

As far as the crib goes I think we'll encourage some of our more wealthy and childless friends to contribute to the "Help Spoil the Baby" fund. On DH's side we are the last to have a child and are going to be getting hand-me-downs (cool!). But on myself we are the first so everyone is excited to buy stuff.

I wish I could go home early. I want a nap.


----------



## SierraJourney

Ooo. . .if it would boost your career, then that's a really tough decision!!! :( Hopefully it's a decision you won't have to make!!! :)

Sooo cool getting hand-me-downs! I'm really looking forward to that, too!! 

I agree on the nap thing! Unfortunately when I get off work, after the armoire is delivered, DH and I have plans to go meet up with some friends for the evening. It will be a lot of fun, but I'm dreading the fatigue. . . :(


----------



## Kellen

Yep. We have a friend that has 1 boy and 2 girls (ages 11, 8 and 4) but has saved ALL their clothes (honestly, I don't think I've ever seen these kids wear the same thing twice). So she already has bags that are separated into gender depending on what the 20 week scan shows. She also has some cloth diapers that we'll be trying before investing in our own. DH is all for clothies, but I'm split 50/50. Sometimes it sounds great, but then sometimes it sounds like a lot of work for me since I'm the laundry lady of the house.

Schedule after work: 1) go home, 2) wait for DH to get home, 3) make DH drive to chiropractor, 4) complain about migraine to chiropractor and beg for him to fix it, 5) contemplate whether or not we should stop to get something to eat or fix something at home, 6) finish watching the Hatfields and McCoy's, 7) go to bed.


----------



## SierraJourney

Nice schedule! I hope it helps your migraines! (And I'd totally go for stopping for something to eat---less work!). 

I wanted to use cloth diapers, but DH said absolutely not! (He's just getting used to the idea that he'll be handling the poopy diapers, not alone, WASHING them!! ) :haha: (We split work 50/50 in our house because we both work full time---we each take turns at all of the household chores and have agreed that we'll both equally change the baby when we're both home, bath it, get up in the night with it, etc.) I'm totally okay with disposable diapers if that means he'll help change the baby. :)


----------



## Kellen

We have split chores. Laundry, the kitchen and dishes are mine. DH takes care of the vacuuming, bedroom, bathrooms and now litter box.
He is number 3 of 6 with 20+ nieces and nephew's so the idea of changing icky diapers doesn't phase him. He wants to split the baby chores as well and is looking forward to having "Daddy" time with LO while I catch up on napping. He gets 6 weeks of paid paternity leave so I'm pretty stoked about that!


----------



## DragonflyWing

SierraJourney said:


> I wanted to use cloth diapers, but DH said absolutely not! (He's just getting used to the idea that he'll be handling the poopy diapers, not alone, WASHING them!! ) :haha: (We split work 50/50 in our house because we both work full time---we each take turns at all of the household chores and have agreed that we'll both equally change the baby when we're both home, bath it, get up in the night with it, etc.) I'm totally okay with disposable diapers if that means he'll help change the baby. :)

Haha DH was strangely shocked when I mentioned him changing diapers...somehow he was under the impression that would be only my job. :rofl: Yea right! With two babies, you better believe he's going to be changing poopy diapers!



Kellen said:


> We have split chores. Laundry, the kitchen and dishes are mine. DH takes care of the vacuuming, bedroom, bathrooms and now litter box.
> He is number 3 of 6 with 20+ nieces and nephew's so the idea of changing icky diapers doesn't phase him. He wants to split the baby chores as well and is looking forward to having "Daddy" time with LO while I catch up on napping. He gets 6 weeks of paid paternity leave so I'm pretty stoked about that!

My DH is number 3 of 6, too! When we were talking about diapers, he mentioned that he had changed so many of his siblings' diapers that he must have filled his lifetime quota. I just stared at him. I raised my two little sisters and was a nanny for three of my baby cousins...I guess that means I've filled my quota too! We'll just have to hire someone for diaper duty ;)

As for chores, we're both rather messy and forgetful, so usually whoever gets sick of the mess first is the one to do that chore :haha:.


----------



## wamommy

OMG girls, you are so lucky! My DH announces to the whole family "I unloaded the dishwasher!!!" with this silly pride on his face, because it's so danged infrequent. I do everything :( I cook, dishes, mop, laundry, bathrooms, garbage, yard....ugh... I'm starting to get depressed! We've had more than a few fights about it.

It sounds like you both have a lot on your plate with work and fatigue! I'm a stay-at-home-mom at the moment, and probably will stay that way until this baby goes to preschool, then I'll go back to work. I was only 2 semesters away from my Masters when baby #1 was born, and my absolute DREAM is to finish that up. It will help with income around here too :) 

I'm off to go to some garage sales! If only I knew the gender of this LO! In the mean time it's a fantastic place to pick up clothes for my girls. They grow out of things so fast that I just can't bring myself to buy retail.


----------



## Kellen

DH tried to convince me the other day that he didn't know how to change a diaper. :dohh:. I then reminded him that I'd seen him change several children of various ages and genders. I might have pregnancy brain, but I hold onto the important stuff!

I have also scared the intern into not drinking the water. I told her that it contained special pregnancy hormones because my boss just went out to have her baby. Since 2009 we have had a baby born to someone in our office. I told her since she was the only one who hadn't had one or wasn't currently expecting that she was in line to have the 2014 office baby. :rofl:


----------



## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> OMG girls, you are so lucky! My DH announces to the whole family "I unloaded the dishwasher!!!" with this silly pride on his face, because it's so danged infrequent. I do everything :( I cook, dishes, mop, laundry, bathrooms, garbage, yard....ugh... I'm starting to get depressed! We've had more than a few fights about it.

Oh believe me, wamommy--we had more than few fights about it in the beginning, too--- him saying: "None of the other guys I know have to do that!" and "that's women's work!". It took a while, but he finally gave in and realized that we both work really really hard and it's unfair for me to come home from a long day's work and have to do *everything*. If we both do something small each evening, everything gets done and we don't have to bust our butts to clean by ourselves! :) He's a good guy. :)


----------



## Kellen

DH just called to say that he came home early (lucky bum is the boss and can do that!) and found a package from my estranged sister on our doorstep. Not to air too much dirty laundry, but my sister is an addict and has a very verbally abusive spouse (all of which escalated after the death of my nephew in 2003). My husband said he was about to toss the package since he didn't recognize the name (we've been together since early 2008... tells you how close I am to _this_ particular sister) until he realized who the sender was.
Because my sister is a little off my DH has broken into our emergency kit. When I get home I'm being made to don a dust mask, work gloves and apron out on the porch in order to open the package. Now I'm 100% certain she would never do anything to purposely harm me, but DH doesn't want to take any chances... I think it is pretty darn funny myself. Apparently the note was addressed to: My Dear Little Sissy. What?! Am I 12?


----------



## helena

I am amazed there are so many me thinking they. An escape poop duties!! Hahahaha. My husband actually changed my first sons first poo nappy, he had 
Ittle choice since i hada c section and was watching from a relined position! So warn hour partners - emergenc sections happen, they had best prepare for diaper changes! Heheh.
I am really lucky - DH has been great at every stage with our boys. He helps it's everything when he isnt at work. And he comes home to have lunch with us all most days. It breaks up my day with the kids and daddy is the by favourite person ever. We even share the kids bath time and bedtime story time - often he reads their story while they are in bed and I sit in the room too. It sounds like lovely family time but by then I am so tired I can't appreciate it! Lol.

He even took half the night feeds when my second baby chose bottle over boob. This time I am going to try harder to breasfeeding but it is so great knowing I have a backup who can cope with the 2am get ups!

Wow, what do you think is in the package?! How curious!


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## honey08

aww its gorgeous reading all ur posts , i had a valentines baby last yr ,exact 14feb <3 via c-sec ,lucky to have him :) goodluck in all ur pregnancys ladies xxx


btw i got my son a "happy valentines day mam and dad" vest made for the day he was born <3 <3


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## honey08

heres my boy last yr <3 <3 <3


(sorry taking over the thread a little, but this is my rainbow baby, i mmc at 12wk b4 my first son (whos 3) never used anything since he was born, fell preg when my first was11mth but sadly another mc, then fell preg with my babyboy no2 22mth later .. ) ) be plsed with wotever sexed baby ur blessed with i say, takes a long time and much heart ache to get the little bundles of joy here :cloud9::cloud9::cloud9::cloud9::cloud9::cloud9::cloud9::cloud9:
 



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## SierraJourney

So precious honey08! Beautiful little boy!!! Thank you so much for sharing!


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## honey08

here he is now ... sorry bout the pride ... ive had a :wine: :rofl: 



:kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss:
 



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## DragonflyWing

What an adorable little boy, honey08!

DH had to go out of town unexpectedly today, so I'm on my own tonight and tomorrow. I think I'll go down the library after work and pick up some movies to watch. Maybe I'll take myself out to dinner :) Oh the possibilities!


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## honey08

DragonflyWing are u aving boy/girl twins ??? 


i said this yr, but obv it was this yr :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

I might be! They're not 100% sure of the genders yet.


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## helena

Hi all, hope you are having fun weekends! Here it is cooler than recently and I can feel autumn brewing and I am loving it!
On a less positive note I am feeling wound up by my MIL. Regularly she emails or calls to remind us of someone or others birthday that we shouldn't miss. Apparently it's an uncles birthday on Tuesday. Like which uncles would hold it against us if we forgot? The best was when she emailed to remind us it was her twins birthday!...you could think she is just being kind and reminding us, but since I know of one occasion where we didn't send someone, her sister, flowers at Christmas and she got all annoyed at DH and they and a row since apaprently it made her look bad, I don't feel it is just being nice...
Really, feeling irritated. We are grown ups. And if we miss a birthday who cares...it's not one of the kids. Then I would get it. But someone in their 60s?

Oooh deep breathing required here....
I wonder if this is preggo hormones ...
Xx


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## wamommy

That would irritate me too, Helena! Inlaws are a sticky situation, and you can't always say what you want to say (unfortunately!) so sometimes I feel like I'm going to explode too.

I've been in a very stinky mood the last few days, which is pretty unlike me. I'm generally pretty upbeat. I just can't shake it! EVERYTHING annoys me, especially DH. I don't know how long this will last, but I hope it stops soon. 

On a good note, I found a garage sale this weekend that had a TON of maternity stuff. I bought about 10 shirts and one dress! I would have bought all of her jeans too (she had 7for all mankind, Gap, etc) but she was about 5 feet tall, and I'm 5'8", so they would have looked bizarre on me. I'm just trying to find ways to feel cute and embrace the bump :)


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## DragonflyWing

I've had a cold all week, feeling yucky. It started out with a sore throat, then I briefly lost my voice. After that I developed a cough, which has now progressed to major sinus congestion. Some online sources say decongestants are ok in the second trimester, some say they are not safe at any point. For now I'm staying on the safe side and not taking anything, but I'm going to check with my doctor tomorrow. I can hardly breathe, and it gives me such a headache!

Had to miss my brother in law's housewarming party today because I just feel awful. :(

On a brighter note, I've only had to take Zofran once a day for the past few days! Yay!


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## helena

Yay for maternity clothes wamommy! I wore sme maternity trousers for the first time this time yesterday, was so comfy. Am in love with stretchy waistbands!! I find I like tops that show e bump off. Otherwise I just feel fat. S I wore a stretchy vest with the trousers to a BBQ and people were so surprised I was so big so soon!

Oh dragon, sorry you are feeling so bad! Hoping your doc can help tomorrow. I have had a bit of half ever recently s also blowing my nose lots, though I read some congestion is common in pregnancy so maybe it's that.
There is always something new he!

Have cooled down from MIL's interfering now..deep breaths and handing the issue over to OH even though the email came to me, helps!

Draon - great you are feeling less sick! Me too, just midLy after eating, but a world better than a few weeks ago!yaaaaay! Even y fatigue is better, I have seen 11pm twice this week!

Another annoyance tho is restless leg. When I get into bed my feet are so wriggly! Drives me nuts and keeps me awake for a bit. :(


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing, I'm so sorry you're feeling sick :( I hope your doctor can give you something to take the edge off. Colds are never fun, but during pregnancy? yuck!

Helena, our symptoms are so similar! I get sick after eating too, but I thought it was because I always take my prenatals with meals. I sometimes have to force myself to finish eating, then go to the bathroom sink and "pant" (that's what I do to not throw up, lol) for 5 minutes until I feel better.

The restless legs are also horrible for me. I used to get them when I was younger, but until this pregnancy haven't had a problem with it. When I go to bed it feels like my legs want to jump up! I adjust my feet, rub them together, roll over, but it just feels like I have ants in my bones, if that makes sense. I used to drink tonic water (for the quinine) and it worked really well, but apparently that's a no-no for pregnancy, so I don't know what to do!


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies!!

Hooray for maternity clothes! I've been in maternity pants for a couple of weeks. . .I couldn't take my clothes being so tight on my bump so I switched over early! :)

So, DH and I bought a couple baby clothes this weekend!! Pictures are below. . . two neutral onesies and two neutral outfits. :) I'm in love. :)

Also, MIL found a bargain at a garage sale on a stroller and carseat system. She called us up and asked if we could use one. She said it was in GREAT condition and just a fabulous piece. We trust her opinion, so she bought it for us (and we will reimburse her). She later sent us photos of it after she bought it. (See below pictures). After seeing the photos, I'm not really sure. . .it looks kind of antiquated to me. What do the rest of you think? DH and I are wondering if it was worth it or not, or if we should just politely take it from her and buy another one. Or does anyone think it's not that bad or a good model or something? Both of my sisters have the really expensive jogging stroller systems, but I don't think DH and I could afford them. . .so this really fits out budget, but I want to make sure it's a good system and I'm not sure if it looks out-of-date or not. I would love your honest opinions please!! :) Thanks guys!
 



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## helena

Hi Sierra, I think it looks fine, but you can't really tell without getting behind the wheel yourself. I remember having a push chair once that has wheels that stopped turning on the supermarket slippy tiled floors and it just sort of slid along. So annoying! So have a wheel about it in. You could always resell if t doesn't work. With my first baby we had three diffent chairs in the first year! First was a second hand bargain but turned out rubbish. The second was fab but too big to get in the car easily after a while, and the third I still have and love almost 4 years on!
Looks wise it looks fine to me though! X
And rather clothes are cute! I bet you keep picking them up and smiling!
Oh wamommy - I know, I lay there wiggling my feet up and down trying to use up the energy! ...must be SO annoying fir DH. I wriggle them to the extent I feel I may have pulled a foot muscle. Doh. 
Hoping tonight will be less wiggly! Am also getting some muscle cramps, leg and feet. Ugh. This pregnancy lark isn't all glamour that's for sure!


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra, those baby clothes are adorable! I think the stroller system looks just fine, doesn't look antiquated to me. Seems like a good deal, but reserve judgment until you see and try it out yourself :)


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## Jo_Bean

I went pram shopping yesterday and there were loads of them that looked like that. So I don't think it's out of date or anything. Like the other girls said, you will know if you like it when you try it out in person.


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## Kellen

Good Monday, Everyone.

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one making the migration over to maternity wear this weekend. I finally caved and bought a pair of jeans, which felt so good to wear. My shirts are still okay for the most part, but I've had to ditch a couple of my button ups for work due to the giganticness of my chest nowadays.

Just out of curiosity... Has anyone encountered this mythical second trimester "energy" everyone keeps talking about? For me I am still dragging and find it hard to be motivated. I had a paper due yesterday for my doctorate, but I haven't even started it. This is completely abnormal for me given that I currently am maintaining a really good GPA. I also find it hard to focus at work. Am I all alone here?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks so much for all of your help ladies! I'll get to see the stroller system this weekend, so hopefully I'll have a better opinion on it then! :) 

And yes, helena---I keep picking up the outfits and smiling. It's hard to believe that in less than 6 months, *MY* baby will be wearing them! It's so wonderful I want to cry!! :)

My sister and my MIL have purchased several books for our baby, so it's bookshelves are already filling up with wonderful stories! :)

Kellen--I know that I, for one, have NOT encountered this energy!! :( I get home from work and park myself on the couch in front of the television. DH tries to get me out on a walk or a bike ride every day to get my energy levels up more, but after that, I'm back on the couch!! :( We have an evening performance this weekend, so it'll be interesting to see how that goes! ha! DH does say that he has noticed a difference lately, though-he says that now I at least stay up until 9:30p.m. most days, whereas before I was falling asleep on the couch at 6p.m.! :) So, hopefully that means it'll gradually get better! 

But, yes, fatigue-wise I feel like rubbish. :( 

I do have to say that I think I'm starting to "nest" though. I keep wanting to do stuff to baby's room and the house in anticipation for baby. Now, if only I could get DH to get more motivated (poor guy, he has to do all of the labor around the house when I have these ideas since I'm pregnant and trying to take it easy. .. ) :)


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## Kellen

Sierra, thanks for the response! I've been meaning to ask - if it isn't too personal - what type of music you and your DH play? Good luck with the performance! 
Last night I made it until 10pm, but I also didn't get up until 9am! lol... this morning I was up at 5:45 so we'll see how this evening plays out. We have tried to go for a couple evening walks, but even at 8pm it is still 90 degrees out and that just saps the energy away...

My mom has bought some cute non-gender specific onsies. We were also gifted the exact amount of money that we needed to buy the car seat of our dreams (okay, my dreams coupled with excellent safety ratings). I feel very blessed. We also have friends that will be giving us bags (like the 20 gal kitchen bags) of 0-36 mo clothes once we find out the gender.

DH is actually really into getting our office converted into the nursery. We are going with a sailing/maritime theme. My mom swooped up an awesome crib set that has ships on it for $80 that we'll be paying back. We also found some really cool cupboards at a thrift store that we'll be cleaning up. Never before was DH motivated to put boxes away from our move in December... thank you baby for finally giving your daddy the inspiration to throw out a bunch of junk!


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## Jo_Bean

Hi ladies :hi:

I too suffer from the restless legs! Glad it's not just me :haha: all night, tossing and turning, rolling over, can't settle! It's so annoying.

I don't think I have experienced any of this mystical energy! What I have felt though, is a lot happier. A little less worried, like I believe it more.

I felt baby today! 100% sure of it, the other times it could have been gas or general rumblings but today I felt it and it was amazing :cloud9:


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## helena

Oh congratulations Jo bean! That's great. You must be so pleased!!
I am still yet to. In fact I am not even sure this is real yet! I realized today it still hasn't sunk in!
I looked it up and I didn't feel my first till 18 or 19 weeks so maybe I will be later this time too..and maybe then I will believe it.


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## wamommy

Congrats, Jo_bean!! SO cool, isn't it? I'm sure I felt it a few days ago while I was eating candy, but really haven't the last couple of days. I actually was worried about it enough to pull out my doppler today. I try not to use it, since sometimes when it takes too long to find the heart beat I panic. I found it this morning though, and it was 146! I want some more kicks, dang it!! They really do reassure you that there is, in fact, a little wiggler in there saying hello :)

Sierra, the stroller set looks great to me! The only thing I would check is the date of manufacturing. They don't recommend using car seats that are over 6 years old, since the plastic can degrade. If it's newer than 2006, go for it!!! I'll be recycling my kids' infant car seat for the third time, lol... I'll be using the oldest's stroller too, so I don't think I have to buy anything in that department! :D

Kellen, I'm searching for the mystical energy burst too. I have been walking more, but the exercise video I had EVERY intention of doing every other day gets pulled out once a week. Ah well, second trimester has just begun. Maybe around 18 or 19 weeks, like Helena said, this will all sink in and we'll all get a boost.


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls! The little wriggler won't stop now! I think it likes dog as the dog started snuggling up to my stomach and the kicking got stronger :cloud9:

Helena - do they say it could be earlier when it's not your first? I'm sure I read that somewhere.


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## Kim2012

Kellen said:


> Good Monday, Everyone.
> 
> Glad to hear that I'm not the only one making the migration over to maternity wear this weekend. I finally caved and bought a pair of jeans, which felt so good to wear. My shirts are still okay for the most part, but I've had to ditch a couple of my button ups for work due to the giganticness of my chest nowadays.
> 
> Just out of curiosity... Has anyone encountered this mythical second trimester "energy" everyone keeps talking about? For me I am still dragging and find it hard to be motivated. I had a paper due yesterday for my doctorate, but I haven't even started it. This is completely abnormal for me given that I currently am maintaining a really good GPA. I also find it hard to focus at work. Am I all alone here?


I guess the energy is yet to come Kellen. hopefully you get your paper in shape soon!I had a meeting with my supervisor today which i have known for ages but had nothing done and for the first i think he was a bit shocked and blunt with me until i told him that I am expecting! But still i think he doesnt understand that I have no ''energy at all as he has scheduled another meeting for next monday.and since morning I have written 30words which probably doesnt make sense and will be deleted tommorrow:nope:


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## DragonflyWing

Yay Jo! Congrats on feeling baby wiggling! :D I felt them a lot this weekend...probably because I'm sneezing and coughing so much. They jump around every time I sneeze :cloud9: I love it!


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## Jo_Bean

:rofl: dragon, are you sniffing pepper or something to tickle your nostrils!? Just to make you sneeze more?


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## DragonflyWing

:rofl: No need to with this cold, but I just might if it goes away!


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## wamommy

:rofl: haha DragonflyWing! 

When is everyone's gender scan? Mine isn't until October 3, and I don't think I can wait that long! My DH wants to pay $60 for a private gender scan, but I think that's so much money when we could just wait 5 more weeks to find out. I'm still feeling girl, although I've had a bunch of boy dreams lately. Who knows?? So much for a mother's intuition... :dohh:


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## munchkinlove

i dont have my date yet but it should be around the 3rd or 4th of october!!!!!!!!!! the hubby and i are thinking boy!!!!!!! but a tiny part of me still thinks girl.


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## Kellen

If all goes to plan we have our next midwife appointment on Sept 13th (at 18 weeks) and should hopefully be able to schedule an ultrasound for Sept 25th (19w6d). Which would be cool because that is literally just days after our anniversary. If not then we'll have to wait until mid-October due to my crazy work schedule (which is my fault... I scheduled important events before I realized I was pregnant... le sigh).


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## helena

My big scan is on 4 October, so far away!!..
Have a checkup on Thursday but I doubt they will tell me much then.

Yes Jo you can feel baby earlier with subsequent pregnancies. I can't remember with my second, but I have a feeling it wasn't much earlier. I didn't write it down either :( ah well, will TRY and be patient!!!


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## SierraJourney

I don't have a date for my scan, yet, but I'm going to try to get it the last week of September or early October. I'll know more after my appointment next week.

Kellen---DH and I play traditional Irish music. We're both Scots/Irish, so it was in our blood. It's actually how we met, and now we play festivals and concerts all over the place. :) 

I feel my lo move maybe once every day---sometimes longer. I thought I wasn't going to feel it today, but it just popped a couple of minutes ago. :) I can't wait to feel it more---and stronger!


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## DragonflyWing

My unofficial gender scan is Sept 12th. That's the next measurement scan, and I'll be just about 18 weeks. They said they should be able to get a very good idea of the genders by then.

I have another ultrasound tomorrow to check my cervical length, and I might ask them have a peek then, too. :) I'm not very patient.

So I take back what I said about loving sneezing...yesterday I sneezed so hard that I threw up right on the floor. :sick:


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## Kellen

Dragon, that does not sound fun. Exciting news about having so many scans though to check on your little ones.

Now that I'm almost 16 weeks I'm thinking of trying to convince DH that we should do a private gender scan when I get back from my trip. I'll be 17 weeks at that time... they should be able to get a fairly decent shot. He'll probably make me wait... he wanted to find out the gender and not tell me. :( 

Sierra, that is really cool! I have high hopes of my baby having musical talent, but it is a 50/50 shot. Poor DH can't carry a tune in a bucket and has never picked up an instrument. Me... I can't get away from it. My entire family is very musical.


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## helena

Oh dragon, poor sneezy sicky you! Not fun.
Sierra - so cool you are a musician! 
Good luck convincing DH on the scan kellen!

It was a good day here. My eldest had his first day at full time school, he just did mornings last year. And he loved it! And I got an afternoon with small son in bed napping and me with enough energy to clean my house and be happy about it! It was sad leaving my eldest a school - I have always been a stay at home mummy to him so I will miss having so much time with him, but it was great seeing him so happy when I picked him up. And watching him play with the other kids, even those speaking a language different to him ( he is just starting to learn French) I felt so proud. Could have cried, was a big hormonal pregnant lady moment! :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Ladies---yeah, we're hoping that our little one will be musically talented. We plan on teaching it music really early as long as it's interested. 

helena--you're so cute! How wonderful that your son had such a grand first day! You have every right to be emotional and proud! :)


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## SierraJourney

Oh guys ... I'm so sad/mad/confused! DH and I were invited just yesterday to go to my cousins house this Friday - good friends of both of ours - DH and I were supposed to talk about it. He asked me what I wanted to do ... I told him (completely honestly) that the thought sounds fun, but the 3 hour drive over there after working an 8 hour day, having to pack a bag, then staying up late with them, sleeping on their pull-out couch with their dogs waking us up every hour, then driving another 3 hours the next day gor our concert, playing a 3 hour concert, then driving 3 hours back home - just doesn't sound do-able for me! Im tired as it is! I explained this as best as I could to him, but he kept saying we can't abandon our friends! Granted we don't see them very often, but they were just at our house 2 weekends ago! I tried explaining how hard this pregnancy is on my body and mind and being and that I know he just can't understand, etc... but he just kept saying that I use pregnancy as an excuse to get out if things I don't want to do. :( he says I should just able to push through the fatigueand exhaustion. :( I can't even believe it! :( I push through the exhaustion as it is! I just don't want to have to do all of that .... I just don't feel like doing it right now- shouldn't that be enough? I mean, I'm caring his child! And it's not like I'm not willing to do anything ... my sister invited us over to her house this Friday too... about a 30 minute drive and I'd get to come home and sleep in my own bed .... I told him I'd be willing to do that option on Friday... just not the lengthy cousin option. But he just thinks I'm being lazy .... and now he's upstairs slamming doors and I'm downstairs crying my eyes out. :( 

Am I lazy and selfish for not wanting to go? I just don't understand why he is so angry .... I've told him before that this pregnancy is one of the harder things I've done physically, and I told him I really believe I'm supposed to rest when I need to... and I feel that does not mean pushing my body to all limits this weekend. :( I'm so mad......:growlmad:


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry, Sierra :hugs: I think you have every right to not want to go! That sounds like a very exhausting weekend even if you WEREN'T pregnant... I can't imagine doing it pregnant. Not only that, but it sounds like perhaps DH really doesn't get how tough this is on you. My DH is guilty of it too, so maybe it's a man thing? From their end, we get a big tummy and complain a lot and then WHAM, out pops a baby... they don't realize how many countless hours we DO push through fatigue, pain, nausea, etc...

I'm just so sorry. I won't bad-mouth your DH too much (since I'm certain you guys will patch things up) but I am completely on your side on this one. I really hope he comes around soon, and you can always vent here if you need!

One last thing...slamming doors? Sounds like you'll have 2 babies on your hands!! :ninja:


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## helena

Big bugs Sierra xx


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## Jo_Bean

Oh Sierra. I know exactly how you feel. I just think they have no clue about how draining it is. It's not like going on a long run one day and then sleeping at night to recover. Nothing helps us to recover because it's 24 hours a day doubling up on our bodies resources. 

I don't know what to suggest. If it were me, I would probably put my foot down and just say no. Be stubborn. Explain to the cousin yourself! They know you are pregnant don't they? You shouldn't be sleeping on a couch anyway!

Would your OH read a book? He sounds like my husband. He would believe someone else like an official doctor or midwife telling him that as fact but he wouldn't believe me. 

:hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Thank you so much ladies! I'm so glad I'm not alone in my feelings on this! DH did apologize last night, but also suggested I make the effort in a couple of weeks when we have to do a two-day concert. Well, of course I'll make the effort then---I *have* to play the concerts. . . I don't *have* to go to my cousin's house. Gee whiz. . . but yes, he did apologize and said he was being mean and he knows I'm going through a lot. . . So I'm feeling better this morning. :) I think my changes are affecting him, too, which I know is hard.. . 

wamommy---I believe your ninja was exactly the correct icon to explain my feelings last night. :) haha. . .it made me laugh. . .

Jo_Bean: I think you are exactly right---my DH won't believe me, but he would believe a doctor or midwife! Im' going to ask my midwife about the fatigue and tiredness and lack of energy at my appointment next week---DH will be there, so I want him to hear her response. :) He has a book about pregnancy, but he stopped reading it. :( He didn't like it . . . It was "A Caveman's Guide to Pregnancy". He didn't appreciate the fact that it suggested that all men were really stupid (his words :haha: ) so I need to get him another book. :)

Again, thanks so much ladies! I really REALLY appreciate your support!


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## Jo_Bean

I was going to suggest that actually. I would go as far as asking your midwife if it is a good idea to sleep on a friends couch when visiting them and spending 6-9 hours of your weekend travelling around, or if maybe you should be resting a bit more - ask her in front of OH and then he will have to believe the response. Clearly she will say, no that's a bad idea, if you are feeling tired, you need to rest and get your man to help you out more :D

hahaha, I really hope she says something like that to you in front of him and then he will realise you aren't putting it on, you are soldiering through!


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## Kellen

Poor Sierra... poor all of us! Men just don't understand... how could they? Our bodies have literally been taken over by cute adorable aliens that suck all the energy out of us. When we first got our BFP my DH stated: "I'm jealous, I want to experience being pregnant too!" What he didn't count on was having worse morning sickness than me, bloating, flatulence and weight gain. :haha: I'm glad to hear that everything is working out. I got my DH a couple books, but I have to read them aloud to him otherwise they just collect dust.


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- I'm sorry your husband was being mean, but I'm glad he owned up to it and apologized! It's true that most men just don't get it.

My husband has been amazing lately...he stopped and picked up dinner last night, and then cleaned the whole kitchen! I had been totally despairing over the state of the kitchen earlier- dirty dishes piled up on the counter, dirty stovetop, overflowing garbage...and I just couldn't muster the energy to do anything about it! Then he came home and now everything is sparkling! I love it! So far, he has been SUPER understanding when I'm too tired/sick to do something. He was slightly grumbly about the cleaning, but he did it all without being asked. I just stayed out of his way until he was done, and then made sure to tell him how grateful I am for his help. He takes good care of me :)

One thing he couldn't understand, though: why I have to go every 1-2 weeks to have my cervical length checked. He didn't understand how the cervix works, and I had to pretend my fist was a cervix..."and here's the external os, and here's the internal os..." lol. Then he broke out the ruler because he didn't believe that a baby's head could fit through 10cm. I guess it must stretch! It was funny, though. He's very interested in the mechanics of it.


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## Jo_Bean

aw thats sweet Dragon :D


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## wamommy

I'm glad he apologized, Sierra, and I think the midwife idea is a great one! Keep us posted, since I may need to borrow whatever works for you:winkwink:

DragonflyWing, that is too cute! The mechanics of it all are kind of amazing, aren't they? My girls are still baffled by it. The first thing my 2-year-old said when I told them a baby was in my tummy was "can I take it out??" with this horribly concerned look on her face. Then I explained that the baby will come out when it's big enough, and they asked me where it comes out :blush: I told them, and my 4-year-old said, "but won't it get pee on it??" The things we never think of!


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## lilredskittle

I'm due Feb 14


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## helena

Haha loving the comment about pee! I showed my 4 year old my bmp today as it seems to have suddenly expanded and he just lied it, smiled and asked if he could cuddle me! He then gave me and the bump a bug soft squeeze. I could have eaten him up right then, he can be so sweet sometimes.

I thought I had lost or thrown out my old maternity clothes but DH found them today! Yay! Unfortunately most is out of season, my bus are both July babies, but there are some good bits. It's funny because now. Am in maternity clothes my bump looks enormous! I am almost believing this is real!

My fatigue is so much better. I can go most days without a nap now and sometimes I make it says 10.30 at night! Last night I did eat dinner then fall asleep without intending to or even knowing about it, on the sofa though, so it is definitely still lingering! DH is away from tomorrow until Sunday so I be I be exhausted with the 2 kids alone!

Doctors tomorrow for a checkup. Bet I have gained a lot of weight...
Though I am eating more salads than before. Last nights was a really healthy diner, lots of salad, grated carrot and feta, chick peas and home grown spuds. Silty odd combination maybe but ally good. Unfortunately I add mayonnaise on the side which adds the calories...Doh. How's everyone else eating?

Dragon - any husband who cleans the kitchen, grumpy or not, is worth their weight in gold I say! Mine did it a few times when I felt bad and was stuck to the sofa. So great of him!


----------



## Kellen

Well, I'm getting super jazzed about my trip tomorrow. I haven't really let myself believe that I'd be seeing my family after all this time! Now I can hardly sit still. I feel sorry for my poor DH because I know he isn't going to get much sleep tonight. I'm a big fan of pillow talk and boy will he be in for an earful!
There are a bunch of fantastic Labor Day sales that will be going on during my visit and I'm looking forward to picking up more clothes that fit properly! Also the state of Oregon doesn't have any sales tax which makes shopping even more awesome! Thankfully Hurricane Isaac has slacked off and no flights are being delayed from my airport. I'm also hoping to get to spend some time with my best friend during a 4 hour layover in Frisco. Aha! Just got confirmation that she will be able to kill 3 hours at the airport with me tomorrow evening. I haven't seen my best friend in almost 2 years... living cross country sometimes sucks.


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## DragonflyWing

Yay, Kellen, that sounds so fun! I hope you have a great time!

wamommy- that's too funny! Kids come out with the most hilarious things.

helena- so glad your fatigue is getting better, and that you found some maternity clothes! I really need to get some maternity shirts...my regular shirts are starting to fail me. They're too short to cover the bump, so they show the elastic panel on my maternity pants :haha:

Heading to the doctor in two hours to get my cervix checked...hopefully they'll give me a peek at the babies too :D Maybe I'll get a better picture than last time.


----------



## SierraJourney

Kellen---yay! I'm excited for your trip too!! Enjoy it!! We expect a full report when you return! :)

wamommy--that's too darn cute! :) Love it!

helena--glad you have more maternity clothes now! :) Let us know how the doctor's appointment goes. I'm wondering about my weight gain, too! I'm eating pretty normal, I feel----trying to get all of the food groups. . .but lacking a bit on the veggies.. . haha I'm eating quite a bit more than I used to eat, though! I used to be a really really light eater--- more "snacking" through lunch instead of eating a full lunch. Now I eat breakfast, have 2 snacks in the morning, eat lunch, have 2 snacks in the afternoon, eat dinner, and have an evening snack before bed. :) I'm assuming that's going to put on some weight! ;) 

Dragonfly---I hope you get a better picture too! Post it if you do!! Hooray! :)


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## SierraJourney

lilredskittle said:


> I'm due Feb 14

Welcome lilredskittle! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Yay this ultrasound was amazing! Same office, different machine, and the images were so much clearer. Even the printouts were higher quality. I must have gotten stuck with an older machine last time.

They verified Baby A is a boy, and Baby B is a girl! I even got potty shots haha. SO excited!! I may just have to spread it all over BnB in celebration.
 



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## wamommy

Oh wow, how cute!!! I love how twin b seems to have her leg crossed at the knee, totally relaxed and chill :D I'm rethinking getting that private scan now, since it really is SO amazing seeing those 2 babies in there and how big and well... baby-like they look!!

Welcome, lilredskittle! Fabulous due date, if I do say so myself :winkwink:

Kellen, I hope you have a great trip! It sounds like a blast, and I can't wait to hear all about it. 

Helena, I totally understand what you mean about shirts. I'm about 5'8", so shirts are sometimes too short to begin with, but with a huge elastic waistband it's even more embarrassing when my shirt creeps up. I've found even some maternity shirts are too short! At least fall and winter are coming, and for most of the third trimester it will be freezing here. I have a lot of maternity sweaters from DD#1 :) 

As for weight gain, I feel like I've gained 20 pounds, but I really have no idea. I'm a little afraid of my Sept 5th appointment. I may be in for a surprise! I just keep silently repeating, "it's not fat, it's what baby needs to grow!" and I feel slightly better about it. Not that I ever turn down Greek Frozen Yogurt right before bed for fear of gaining :blush:


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## Jo_Bean

Welcome skittle :hi:

Dragon!! A boy and a girl! Wow!! One of each :cloud9: that is so cute and if you wet planning on 2 kids..... All done :thumbup: So happy for you!


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## helena

Dragon, that is so so great! Great pictures and great news you know both the sexes. A boy and a girl is very very cute for twins if you ask me. People can't be them confused, they don't need to be dressed alike, but they can be the best of play mates!! A friend of mine has boy girl twins and they are really close and always together in the school playground.


Yay we are mangoes or avocados today! Yay! That's pretty big!! Think I may buy an avocado today to have a little hold!

I find I am not eating more often, just more massive portions. Oh, apart from the cuppa and a mars bar habit i have Started each evening....oops! Ah well, off for the doctors weigh in in an hour so let's see...my bet is that's have gained at least 4 kilos since the start...maybe more...4.5, final bet.


Hello lilredskittle!


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## helena

Oh I was so close! Official weigh in ...4..6 kilos gained so far! 

Baby fine, enough fluid and heart beat 156. Very fast appointment but that was good as I had my youngest son in the pushchair watching and being good keeping quiet eating raisins. I'll be so glad when I see his nappy later.......ugh.

Had blood test for spina bifida.


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## Kellen

Congrats Dragon on your adorable set of twins! That is fantastic that you'll be getting one of each.
Welcome Skittles! We are a very friendly group so we'd love to hear more about you and your LO.
Helena, I'm glad that your scan went well. I pray that all the test come back negative and that everything is going good.

20 minutes and I head home to grab my stuff and have DH drive me to the airport. I'm a bit more nervous about flying this time, but I know the end will be worth it. I'm going to gain 5lbs over night stepping into my mom's kitchen...


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen said:


> I'm going to gain 5lbs over night stepping into my mom's kitchen...

:rofl: It will be worth it, though!


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## helena

Can't get enough salad and grated carot with vinaigrette on. So odd as I used to really dislike raw carrot!

Oh today's news is also that dH and I finally dtd for the first time since bfp. No pains etc so I guess I was worrying excessively. Don't expect we will be at it like rabbits for the next 5 months or so still, but it mildly eases my guilt on wifely duties! Lol.

Safe trip kellen x


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## wamommy

I'm glad your appointment went well, Helena! I found the raisin bit very funny! Corn is almost as fun :dohh: I'm sure all will be well with your test. I have the second blood draw this Wednesday for the quad screen test, and even though I'm sure it will be fine, it can be so stressful!

Also, congrats on dtd, lol. It's a non-issue around our house. My DH knows if he brings it up he's liable to get a long glare followed by a rant about "when he helps ME out around the house, I'll THINK about helping HIM out!" sigh... 

BTW, hurray for avocado!!


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## SierraJourney

Wow! I was training a new employee all day so had no time to come on here until now.... so exciting about the good appointment helena! And Dragonfly- sooo cute on the twins! I'm so jealous that you know gender already! Congrats!


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## Jo_Bean

Happy Avocado week for most of us :D 

Glad the appointment went well Helena!


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## nicole844

Lovely Ladies!!
I am so sorry for my temporary absence, but THANK YOU to Wamommy for creating this wonderful thread :hugs: I was so happy to return and see how you are all doing! I have had quite a few complications along the way and was getting quite fearful the LO wouldn't hang on- however, yesterday I got the green light that everything is looking much better and MC risk is almost nothing! I was so relieved and feel like I can finally enjoy this wonderful time. 

Dragonfly: CONGRATS on your sweet little boy & girl- How exciting!! I can't wait to find out what team everyone else is! When is everyone else finding out?

I found out yesterday I am TEAM BLUE!! :blue::blue::happydance: Heart Rate 136 & he looks perfect- I was over the moon. I have missed you ladies and am so glad to return with good news :flower:


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## SierraJourney

Nicole---so exciting to hear that you're team blue! :) Congrats! I'm so glad you are over the rough-period and everything is looking so much better now. We've missed you!


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## nicole844

SierraJourney said:


> Nicole---so exciting to hear that you're team blue! :) Congrats! I'm so glad you are over the rough-period and everything is looking so much better now. We've missed you!

Thanks so much! Second trimester is a MUCH more glorious time, agreed?! Less to worry about and actually feeling human again! When is your next scan?? Finding out the team is very exciting, but I do miss the days of wondering! I can understand those who want it to be a surprise now! We got the sex written down in an envelope to find out in a more romantic setting, and we procrastinated opening it for hours! Enjoy the mystery period :thumbup::baby:


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## SierraJourney

Aww I love that you had it written down in an envelope to open it in a more romantic setting! That's lovely! I don't even have my next scan scheduled, yet---it won't be until 20 weeks. I have an appointment on Thursday, so I'm hoping they'll schedule it then. I can't wait!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Nicole, so glad you are back! I didn't know you were having such a rough time of it but I'm so glad that everything is ok now and how wonderful! A little baby boy! :cloud9:


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## DragonflyWing

So glad to see you back, Nicole! Congrats on team blue!! :D And YES, second tri is so much better than first! So glad to be out of that!


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## SierraJourney

Argh. . . so I might have to go to Urgent Care tonight, ladies. :( Last week I had what I thought was a yeast infection :blush: because I was super itchy down there---this happened right after DH and I dtd. So, the next day when it was still itchy, I put Monistat cream down there to take care of it. However, it burned and made the itching that much worse! I got through that and then the next day it was gone. Well yesterday the itching came back (we hadn't dtd), so this morning I put Monistat down there again hoping that it would take care of what I was guessing was a yeast infection. Well, it did the SAME thing---made it burn down there and itch even more. So I went to work hoping it would go away, but the itching was still there at lunchtime and when I went to go to the loo, there were about 10 little tiny patches of blood in my panties. When I wiped it looked like the blood was coming from the outside area of my vagina, not the inside (phew). So I called my midwife (who closes early today) and she said that she thinks I need to get it checked out at Urgent Care. It's not as itchy now, but still getting specks of blood (I'm assuming everything is just cracked and irritated down there for some reason----I'm not worried at this point that something is wrong with lo). So. . .I'm not sure on whether to still go to the Urgent Care to get checked out (more $ and there is usually about a 3 hour wait there--plus more exposure to colds, flus, etc), or to wait to see if it's still there tomorrow. The problem is that if I wait until tomorrow, then I won't be able to go to Urgent Care tomorrow because we'll be on the road going to our concert---so I'd have to wait until Sunday. And if it's an infection or something, I don't want it to affect lo in any way. :( Anyone have any experiences with this? I might post in second trimester, too, to see if anyone has any ideas. . .


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## wamommy

Welcome back, Nicole!!! I'm so happy to see you here, and can't wait to catch up on everything. Also, grats on team blue :D Hopefully everyone's genders will start rolling in, and I'll try to keep the front page updated. So far it's just Nicole and DroagonflyWing that know, right?

Sierra, that sounds miserable!! I don't know much about it, but have read a ton of posts about how common yeast infections are in pregnancy. I think there are a bunch of safe treatments, but you're right, it's probably best to get checked out first. How annoying!! Like there aren't enough things going on? :dohh:


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## helena

Go right away Sierra, if that's what the midwife said. You don't want to send a whole weekend getting worse when it could be getting better?

Nicole - boys are the best! I have 2 so may be a teeny bit biased, but they are so much fun! And it never fails to amaze me when I think about the fact I am raising two little boys who will be big grown men! I will raise grown men. For some reason this makes me so proud! (though no doubt little girls are adorable too...Especially as I am 70% sure this one will be team link..tbc)


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## nicole844

SierraJourney said:


> Argh. . . so I might have to go to Urgent Care tonight, ladies. :( Last week I had what I thought was a yeast infection :blush: because I was super itchy down there---this happened right after DH and I dtd. So, the next day when it was still itchy, I put Monistat cream down there to take care of it. However, it burned and made the itching that much worse! I got through that and then the next day it was gone. Well yesterday the itching came back (we hadn't dtd), so this morning I put Monistat down there again hoping that it would take care of what I was guessing was a yeast infection. Well, it did the SAME thing---made it burn down there and itch even more. So I went to work hoping it would go away, but the itching was still there at lunchtime and when I went to go to the loo, there were about 10 little tiny patches of blood in my panties. When I wiped it looked like the blood was coming from the outside area of my vagina, not the inside (phew). So I called my midwife (who closes early today) and she said that she thinks I need to get it checked out at Urgent Care. It's not as itchy now, but still getting specks of blood (I'm assuming everything is just cracked and irritated down there for some reason----I'm not worried at this point that something is wrong with lo). So. . .I'm not sure on whether to still go to the Urgent Care to get checked out (more $ and there is usually about a 3 hour wait there--plus more exposure to colds, flus, etc), or to wait to see if it's still there tomorrow. The problem is that if I wait until tomorrow, then I won't be able to go to Urgent Care tomorrow because we'll be on the road going to our concert---so I'd have to wait until Sunday. And if it's an infection or something, I don't want it to affect lo in any way. :( Anyone have any experiences with this? I might post in second trimester, too, to see if anyone has any ideas. . .

This EXACT same thing happened to me. Right after DTD, I had swelling and itching & burning that lasted for days. I thought I had a yeast infection also and used Monistat cream which made it WAY worse. I never used the inserts because it said to not use during the first trimester. I had to ice down there for a few days and had bright red irritation spots that started to really hurt. This finally went away and I haven't DTD since! I now there is a lot more bloodflow to that area during pregnancy and maybe thats why it became so irritated immediately after? Sorry I do not have an answer, but you are not the only one! I know how miserable it is & am so sorry you are going through it! Let us know how everything goes and feel better


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## nicole844

helena said:


> Go right away Sierra, if that's what the midwife said. You don't want to send a whole weekend getting worse when it could be getting better?
> 
> Nicole - boys are the best! I have 2 so may be a teeny bit biased, but they are so much fun! And it never fails to amaze me when I think about the fact I am raising two little boys who will be big grown men! I will raise grown men. For some reason this makes me so proud! (though no doubt little girls are adorable too...Especially as I am 70% sure this one will be team link..tbc)

You are so right!! The thought of a little man growing up just melts my heart. And it never fails to amaze me that I am growing a PENIS inside me!! How powerful!! Hahah! :rofl: It really is mind blowing.


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## wamommy

Haha Nicole! I never thought of it like that at all. I have 2 girls, so it makes sense to have this little creature come out that sort of looks like you, with all the same parts and all. I can imagine it would be odd/wonderful to see a little man pop out! Fingers tightly crossed I get to find out!


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## GlitterandBug

Hey ladies!

Hope all is going well with you all? 

Sierra - sorry to hear you're not feeling great, hope you feel ok soon!

Dragonfly - congrats on your boy and girl, perfect!

Nicole - hooray for team :blue: - congrats!!

Well, we found out today that we're also team :blue: ! Cannot believe we're having a boy!! Was so shocked at first but starting to feel excited now! Can't wait to meet him!


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## Jo_Bean

Congrats Glitterandbug! Another team blue!! How exciting!

Did you have any of the 'old wives tale' symptoms that pointed to a boy or a girl at all?


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## wamommy

Congrats on team :blue:, GlitterandBug!! We're up to 3 boys and 1 girl. I'm trying to keep the front page updated. It's so fun to have the genders start rolling in! Jo_Bean, I'm curious about the wives' tales thing too. If they're true I'm having a hermaphrodite, since I've got about half girl, half boy :haha:

Has anyone else felt like they "popped" big-time this week? I feel like a house! A woman at my church is pregnant too, and she looks about as big as I am. I found out yesterday that she's 26 weeks :dohh:


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## GlitterandBug

Jo_Bean said:


> Congrats Glitterandbug! Another team blue!! How exciting!
> 
> Did you have any of the 'old wives tale' symptoms that pointed to a boy or a girl at all?

Nope, everything pointed to a girl!! The ring test, the 'eye' test, the gender predictors, everything!!



wamommy said:


> Congrats on team :blue:, GlitterandBug!! We're up to 3 boys and 1 girl. I'm trying to keep the front page updated. It's so fun to have the genders start rolling in! Jo_Bean, I'm curious about the wives' tales thing too. If they're true I'm having a hermaphrodite, since I've got about half girl, half boy :haha:
> 
> Has anyone else felt like they "popped" big-time this week? I feel like a house! A woman at my church is pregnant too, and she looks about as big as I am. I found out yesterday that she's 26 weeks :dohh:

I seem to have finally popped this weekend at just over 17 weeks!!


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## Jo_Bean

Wll thereby go then! My predictors say 8 girl and 2 boy. So that's probably no indication at all! :haha:

I have got a bit bigger this week but I'm a larger girl anyway, so I still have a B shaped bump. I can't wait for i to be nice and smooth!


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## helena

Congrats glitterbug! Boys are adorable ! Xx


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## GlitterandBug

Jo_Bean said:


> Wll thereby go then! My predictors say 8 girl and 2 boy. So that's probably no indication at all! :haha:
> 
> I have got a bit bigger this week but I'm a larger girl anyway, so I still have a B shaped bump. I can't wait for i to be nice and smooth!

With DD everything was right tho (which is why I was so convinced girl again) - it may well all be right for you Jo!


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## DragonflyWing

Congrats on team blue, Glitter! 

I thought my bump would be bigger by now! I can still fit in almost all my pre-pregnancy pants (although they are not very comfortable!), and people have been commenting that I'm still pretty small. The only time i really look pregnant is when I'm wearing maternity clothes!


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## Blue_bear

The thing i learnt last time is other people love to comment...you will always get 'your so small' ' your so big' (usually in the same day) 'your carrying high/low' and many others! Even from random strangers that feel its ok to touch your bump! 

Congrats on the team blues! Boys are amazing. I have reconsidered about staying team yellow and a. now going to find out....i am convinced girl but i was tge same at this stage with DS so i dont think that counts for anything lol.


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## Jo_Bean

My worse fear is that some random person touches my bump whilst I'm in the grocery store or something! I think I am likely to slap them or at least give them a mouthful of abuse. I would hate that.

Why do people feel they need to comment at all!? The most I've said to a friend who's been pregnant is, I think you look lovely! Why would I say that she looks really big!?

One of my friends said that people had said to her, Ooooh are you sure there's only one in there?

A woman at work asked me how far along I was the other day, when i said 16 weeks her eyes widened as if she was going to say blimey is that all? She must have spotted the look on my face because she didn't say anything.
I was going to say "well seeing as the fat doesn't just disappear, the baby is pushing the fact forward so it might look bigger, but thanks for asking and making me feel really good about myself" 

Grrrr sorry for the rant, but I hate that people think because you are pregnant it's ok to comment on the way you look.

Other responses up my sleeve when someone says "gosh you're big"
- gosh, you're bald
- I'm growing a baby, what's your excuse
- gosh, you're rude
- gosh, you're ugly
- thanks, now I feel great about myself
- f*** off

:rofl:


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## helena

I got a comment this morning as I dropped my son at school. His teacher from last Aegean asked if the baby was due soon (!) and I said no, five months to go and she replied with something along the lines of (I translate from French) "ah yes, third baby.." and then she gesticulated to show an enormous fat bump!...I felt so awkward about basically saying I was big that I joined in with a polite British "haha yes, I will be enormous and round in time for Christmas!"..in my head I pictured me as a christmas pudding with little limbs squishing out...probably won't be far from the truth!
The other day anther teacher asked me when. Was due and when I said February she said "sosa soon already! S it just goes to show, people just like to comment one way or another!


Feeling rubbish today, feel like I have a flue coming, had a headache on and off for 4 days and have two red swollen toes :( not sure what they are all about...brain went into overdrive worrying about thrombosis in the night but am trying to stay calm and it be a hypochondriac!


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## Jo_Bean

Aw Helena. Even though I have rude abusive comments up my sleeve I bet I will be very British too and either just laugh and agree or say, well that's because I'm a big girl. 
Even if I plan to be assertive like that, I bet I don't end up saying it at all! :haha:

Not sure about how I will react to strangers grabbing my bump though. My friend she got that all the time!

You are right. People just like to say something. Whatever it is!

To me, it's like walking round the supermarket saying, oh I don't like your hair cut, that top doesn't suit you.. Etc. 

I've had a blocked nose for about a week and I've been sneezing. Also have an upset stomach today. I thought we were supposed to feel better and glow in the 2nd tri! :haha: not me :(

Not sure what to think about swollen toes though!


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## helena

I am with you on the blocked nose too Jo, I am certainly not glowing!

Here are my toes, please excuse the nails which desperately need repainting. https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_3AEE0CA8.jpg its the right foot which is a bit odd.
Am wondering if I should see the doc and be my blood pressure checked since I have the headaches ...but maybe it's too early for all that per eclampsia high blood pressure stuff?


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## Jo_Bean

The right one does look more swollen. If you are at all worried, maybe just go to the docs anyway. Or phone them or the midwife?

I think I would phone the midwife to ask, just to be sure if it was something to worry about. Could you have been bitten at all?


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## helena

At lunch esteday I felt like I had grit or sand between my toes, I had socks on though, and when I rubbed them I realized they were a bit red. Tink the grit feeling may have just been where they were a bit fatter than usual and rubbing together....will mabe give it until tomorrow and see. I it's still odd or if my headache comes back I will be checked tomorrow.


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## Jo_Bean

Good plan. Maybe give your feet a soak in some warm water? It should help with the swelling and if there is anything trapped then it should come out!


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## GlitterandBug

Jo_Bean said:


> My worse fear is that some random person touches my bump whilst I'm in the grocery store or something! I think I am likely to slap them or at least give them a mouthful of abuse. I would hate that.
> 
> Why do people feel they need to comment at all!? The most I've said to a friend who's been pregnant is, I think you look lovely! Why would I say that she looks really big!?
> 
> One of my friends said that people had said to her, Ooooh are you sure there's only one in there?
> 
> A woman at work asked me how far along I was the other day, when i said 16 weeks her eyes widened as if she was going to say blimey is that all? She must have spotted the look on my face because she didn't say anything.
> I was going to say "well seeing as the fat doesn't just disappear, the baby is pushing the fact forward so it might look bigger, but thanks for asking and making me feel really good about myself"
> 
> Grrrr sorry for the rant, but I hate that people think because you are pregnant it's ok to comment on the way you look.
> 
> Other responses up my sleeve when someone says "gosh you're big"
> - gosh, you're bald
> - I'm growing a baby, what's your excuse
> - gosh, you're rude
> - gosh, you're ugly
> - thanks, now I feel great about myself
> - f*** off
> 
> :rofl:

My favourite response is the last!! :rofl: I do find people become incredibly opinionated over the size of a bump - it can never just be 'perfect' (which they are!). I hate hate HATE the thought of anyone touching my bump - with DD I would physically move away if someone lunged to have a prod (except my DH or mum...oh and the midwife!!) I wouldn't dream of doing it to anyone else so why do it to a pregnant lady. 

'Keep off the Bump. Private Property'


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## Jo_Bean

I saw a top the other day that said "hands off the bump" I was very tempted to buy it!


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## GlitterandBug

Jo_Bean said:


> I saw a top the other day that said "hands off the bump" I was very tempted to buy it!

I have one from DD. Two hand prints and it says 'hands off the bump'. I will be getting that out to wear before long i'm sure!!


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## Jo_Bean

It was in New Look I think. I might get it!

https://www.newlook.com/shop/matern...-magenta-hands-off-the-bump-t-shirt_265228378


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## GlitterandBug

Jo_Bean said:


> It was in New Look I think. I might get it!
> 
> https://www.newlook.com/shop/matern...-magenta-hands-off-the-bump-t-shirt_265228378

That's the one! Mine was grey with pink hands. Loved it!! Go on, get it!


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## Jo_Bean

they do it in Burgandy, blue, black and teal. Hmmm decisions decisions! :haha: I might just do it!


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## GlitterandBug

Jo_Bean said:


> they do it in Burgandy, blue, black and teal. Hmmm decisions decisions! :haha: I might just do it!

Oooh teal or burgundy I reckon! :thumbup:


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## Jo_Bean

I think I'll go for teal :thumbup: I will order it online when I get back :D

I've got my 16w appointment in about 30 minutes time, we'll finally get to hear the heartbeat!

Glitter - did you pay for a private gender scan? Or did you just find out on the NHS?


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## SierraJourney

Hello everyone! Sorry for my absence! We had a long holiday weekend over hear, so I was away from the computer. Thanks for all of your support. I was feeling better by the end of the day, so I didn't end up going to Urgent Care. :blush: It's increasingly started to feel better, so I'm hoping it was just irritated. Today, hardly any itching and I find if I wear a panty-liner, it keeps me drier, which is helping a lot. I'll mention it on Thursday at my next midwife appointment and see what she says, but I'm thinking it's just a pregnancy thing and not much to worry about since it's feeling so much better.

Congratulations on the boys! I can't wait to find out and I am so happy to know you have all found out so early!!

I definitely feel way bigger this week---people keep commenting. My coworkers keep touching my bump and some even get down and "talk" to it. VERY weird! lol I keep thinking, "You've never touched me before, so why do you think you can all of the sudden touch me and breathe on my bump!?" lol

We picked up our stroller from MIL this weekend--I actually really like it! So cute! I'm going to wash all of the cloth-parts on it since it was used, but it's in really good shape! I can't wait to push my baby in it!!! :)


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## helena

Hi sierra! Glad you are feeling better!

I am still feeling pretty rubbish (I mentioned earlier, head aches, swollen toes). I feel ad as I haven't done anything fun with my little one today, it's been all just hanging out n the sofa and school runs for the biggie. But I feel wiped out!
I tried calling my ob but it went to answer phone three times..slightly annoying. Will see how I go. Typically dH is late home tonight so I will be in charge of the school pick up, dinner time, bath time and bed time. Could so do with a break! Sometimes I so wish I lived nearer family!..


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry you're not feeling very well, helena! I hope you feel better soon :hugs:.

Some of our friends suggested that we buy a pack of diapers each week starting now, so it's not such a big expense all at once. At first I thought that was a little silly, and I was thinking "how much could diapers cost?"

WELL...I picked up a pack of 36 newborn diapers yesterday, and it was $10.99!! Holy crap!! That means it would cost us over $50 a week in diapers once the babies are born. :wacko:


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## SierraJourney

Aww helena---I hope they'll answer your call soon! :( I'm sorry you feel so rubbish!

Dragon--I've been doing that each time I go shopping, too--except I've been getting the boxes of 96 diapers.---the prices are outrageous! I've been clipping diaper coupons and having friends give me their coupons as well---that way I save a little bit of money. :)


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## Jo_Bean

Nappies are expensive!

iIm collecting money off vouchers, or coupons. Also, my mum is buying nappies at every opportunity, she is a bargain hunter and finds all sorts of bargains. I just have to remind her that she needs to get a variety of sizes, otherwise we'll end up with 2000 newborn nappies and they won't fit!

The 16w appointment went well! The baby's heartbeat is great, 147bpm and everything else was fine :) Next stop, 20w scan and gender reveal! 3 weeks, 2 days and counting!


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## SierraJourney

Yay Jo_Bean! Good news on a great appointment! I'm right with you counting down to the gender scan! :)


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## wamommy

Woohoo, Joe-Bean! :) I'm so glad all went well! I'm with you and Sierra in the countdown too. October 3rd... less than a month away now! I actually had a huge fight with DH yesterday about gender. I told him he was unusually obsessed with having a boy, and it wasn't fair to put that much pressure on me. You know what his argument was? "So I'm alone in wanting a boy? What about Henry VIII?" REALLY??? Good thing he never became a lawyer. Comparing yourself to a man who murders his wives is no way to win an argument :growlmad:

I'm sorry you're feeling sick, Helena :( I don't know what to say about your toes. Soaking them sounds like a great idea. I hope they get better!

As for bump-touching, I haven't had a single person even try. I didn't with either of my other pregnancies either. Maybe I just give off a "don't touch me" vibe? I never thought so, but who knows, lol. Part of me wishes someone would try, since DH doesn't and I don't see my family much. It might be nice to have some attention! On the other hand, if it was a stranger it might really freak me out.


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## helena

Hey Jo, glad your appointment went well!

Sill fat sore foot here. I didnt ring the doc back though, thought I would just try and take it easy. Rushing to the doctors would just be one more thing to have to do!...will see how I am tomorrow.

Be careful buying too many small nappies. My inlays bought us lots of boxes of nappies which was great but we ended up with some we didn't use as baby grew pretty fast. Sizes 3 and 4 last for ages though. I would buy size 3 if you want to bulk buy.

Still not definitely feeling baby wriggling here. I wonder if my previous c sections are affecting things, I do have some numbness where they cut.


What's for dinner all? Slad here, I can get enough! Lots of roquette with grated carrot, vinaigrette nd feta cheese, pickled onions, a dollop of mayonnaise and a chunk of crusty bread and butter. Mmmmmmmm


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy - i hope I give off that vibe! I'd rather no touches, than too many!

Hope you have a smaller foot tomorrow Helena!

Tea for us tonight, salmon, baby new potatoes and broccoli. Trying to get my oily fish intake done although I don't really like fish too much! It's in a chilli seasoning so it takes the fish taste away :haha:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--I can't believe he brought up Henry VIII! Oh my goodness! Everytime my DH says he wants a boy, I always remind him that gender is determined by sperm---so it's up to him if we have a boy. :haha: But my DH won't mind either gender---I caught him smiling at a baby girl the other day. . .I could see he'll be wrapped around a little girl's finger if we have one. :) I think men just have this innate sense that if they don't produce a boy, then they are keeping their "line" alive. . . ridiculous, but I think that's what it is. :)

Dang---can I come over to one of your houses tonight? We have hardly any groceries in the refrigerator, so DH & I are eating a quick PB&J and heading to the grocery store tonight. . . I'd rather have the refrigerator full and sit on the couch the rest of the night, though. . . Grocery shopping takes FOREVER. . . . :(


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hello, have you room for one more?
I am due my 3rd baby 14th February :D I have a 8yr old DS and a 6yr old DD xx


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## DragonflyWing

Hi, Midnight_Fairy! Of course we have room, welcome :D

Haha, I just went grocery shopping last night, and I'll _still_ be eating leftover pasta for dinner! I'm still struggling with my appetite, and nothing is very appealing to me. Except junk food! But then I feel sick and wish I hadn't eaten it. My whole digestive system is unhappy with me. Still super constipated, too...had to take milk of magnesia last night because I was so backed up that I was in major pain. Super TMI- it worked, but when I finally was able to go, it was the size of a softball and nearly killed me. I'm still recovering lol.

Anyone else starting to get lots of round ligament pain? I sneezed in an awkward position yesterday and it hurt so bad I cried. Felt like being stabbed, or like something exploded in there. It's a good thing I knew what it was, or I might have panicked and gone to the ER or something! Just had to curl into a ball for a few minutes until the sting wore off.

Haha, I sound like such a whiner! Let me tell you, though, I'd take all of this discomfort and more rather than go through first tri again!


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## Midnight_Fairy

I have started to get really achy too :( xx


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## SierraJourney

Hi Midnight! I remember you from another thread!! So glad to see you on here! :)

Dragon---I am 100% with you on the lack of appetite. It's horrible for me. I really just don't feel like eating at all, but have to force myself through all meals and snacks because I know I'll get sick if I don't eat something. :( I just want cravings to come! (I've had a few cravings, but they've been really expensive restaurants. . . DH keeps complaining that the baby has expensive tastes!) :) And we're trying to save money for the baby, so I can't give in to the expensive cravings. :(

Oh my goodness--I hear you on the softball thing! I ate a whole bunch of tomatoes today, and it had the same effect on me! :haha:

And round ligament pain---YES! I'm sitting here at my desk and I have to keep from grimacing when I'm talking to people because the pains come up so suddenly!! 

Definitely DEFINITELY better than first tri, though! :)


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## Jo_Bean

:hi: Midnight :) the more the merrier!

Yes, I've been getting RLP a lot. I think where I sit down a lot in my job and forget to get up and walk about, when I do get up it really hurts. Like I've stretched myself in half :sad1: not pleasant!


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, yes, if I've been sitting a while and then stand up too fast...I usually end up immediately bent in half again! My co-workers keep asking me why I'm doubled over in pain every time I stand up :haha:!! I just need to learn to get up slowly!


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## wamommy

Welcome, Midnight! I'll add you to the first page under February 14th :D Do you know the gender yet? We're on a blue streak here, except for DragonflyWing's laid-back twin :haha:

I have had the same round ligament pain. For me it's mostly when I lift something heavy, or turn in the wrong direction. I was putting my 2-year-old to bed the other night and was hit with a sharp pain that made me drop her from about 3 feet above the bed! She thought it was a game and laughed, but what if I'd been over cement?? I might have to start taking it a bit more easy. I'm glad it's not just me, though. It's comforting to know it's not something wrong in there, but totally normal :)


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## Jo_Bean

I actually asked my MW about it yesterday and she said it's completly normal as your uterus is growing from the size of a tennis ball to the size of a rugby ball. Everything has to stretch and move a bit to make room. 

She said try to get up and walk around regularly if you sit down a lot and don't try to lift things that are heavy.


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## wamommy

That sounds like excellent advice form your midwife, Jo! Funny image popped into my head of a rugby ball in there. Yikes! :haha:

I'm up late tonight nervous about tomorrow's Dr. appointment. I don't know why I'm nervous, honestly. It's just a check-up with heart beat and such. I just hope all is well with baby, and that I haven't gained more than a few pounds this month!


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## helena

My round ligament pain doesn't seem so and this time, though a sudden sneeze hurts that's for sure! 

Toes fatter and redder. https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_73DDC312.jpg. Doctors shut today and tomorrow...have emailed the secretary who I think is working behind the scenes today so maybe she will see my email and footy photo!
Have my two boys home today with back to school fevers...hoping they won't mind a feet up in front of tv day!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Morning all.

Thanks for a lovely welcome :D

We do not know the gender yet. I have my 20 week scan on the 27th September and we are hoping to find out. I think its a boy but we dont mind either way really. I have a 8yr old boy and a 6yr old girl so not really fussed. :)

I am really suffering with heartburn and the aches that you all describe. Seems like baby is on a massive growth this week then!? Lets hope my "bump" will start to look more like a bump and not bloat! x


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## helena

Hi midnight!!,


Oh ladies I need sympathy...Feel so washed out, not sure if tis mystery foot situation or bug my sons had, and feel like crying. Foot all odd...keep panicking what if it's infected ...what if baby is at risk?
But OB is shut. Normal doctors usually you have to wait hours with sick people in a waiting room the size of a stamp, or make an appointment 5 years in advance...so that leaves maternity or a&e at the hospital...what if it's just an insect bite? 
Nausea too...but is that just pregnancy? Oh it's all too much. I feel like I need my mum to tell me what to do and to take charge!
Of course maybe it's nothing, maybe I am hormonal and acting silly.,.i just don't know!...

Am in such a sorry state my 4 year old just dragged his duvet off his bed and put it on me on the sofa! Bless him.


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## helena

So OB says, via email, to go see my GP. Will do tomorrow.


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## Kellen

Good Morning Ladies,

Wow! There has been a lot going on while I was on vacation. Welcome and welcome back to those whom are here now. Get better to everyone who is down and out. And congrats to those who found out what team they are on!

I had a fantastic time at my parents, but I am not too eager to get on an airplane again any time soon. I had some of the worst connections and layovers ever! I did get to see my best friend who has declared that she isn't buying anything for the baby until she comes back to see us after the birth. Then she is kidnapping me, dragging me to the store and buying whatever I need for the baby. I'm thinking of asking her to pay for a diaper service. :haha:

Has anyone else had trouble sleeping recently? Over the past few nights I've found it nearly impossible to get comfortable with or without DH. I think I might cave and buy a maternity pillow this weekend.

DH really wants a son, but I would really like a daughter. If we are going by old wives tales we are having a girl. HB has been 169 and 151. Gender predictor charts say girl. My mom did the ring over the belly test and it circled. So we have our 18 week check up next Thursday and will then get to schedule our scan. My grandma was awesome and bought me a whole new wardrobe of maternity clothes. I never realized how uncomfortable I was before now. We also bought a Chicco Travel System since it was on sale for Labor Day. It should be here this afternoon!

https://www.chiccousa.com/gear/travel-systems/cortina-30lb-systems/travel-systems-30-gemini.aspx


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## DragonflyWing

I registered for Chicco Keyfit 30 carseats! Mine has a double stroller, though. 

And yes on the trouble sleeping! I've had a hard time falling asleep and staying asleep for several nights in a row. It was a little better last night after I propped myself up with pillows all around me. I'm thinking about getting a pregnancy pillow too, any suggestions?


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry you're feeling so ill :( I know exactly what you mean, that sometimes even as a mother myself when I feel completely ill I want my own mommy too! I hope your doctor can sort it out today, and keep us posted! 

Kellen, welcome back! How nice of your grandma to give you maternity clothes. There's not better gift than comfort, and making you feel good in your clothes for the next 5 months. I love the stroller, by the way :)

DragonflyWing, I have the Snoogle pregnancy body pillow and LOVE it. It's actually buried in my closet, but I plan on digging it out tonight. The problem is, my 2-year-old still winds up in bed with me almost every night, and she loves to cuddle. I'm afraid with a giant pillow in there she might either feel left out or fall off the bed!!

Here's the pillow
 



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## DragonflyWing

Ooh, thanks wamommy! My mom just bought the Snoogle for herself! She has various joint problems and has a hard time getting comfortable to sleep...she said it has been a lifesaver. Maybe I'll check it out for myself! Is it weird having to use it instead of your regular pillow under your head? I feel like that would bother me.


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## wamommy

At first it is kind of weird. I actually pushed the head part over and continued to use my own pillow for a while. The best part is it goes between your legs on the bottom, and runs along your back which keeps you from rolling over (which I really need, since I keep waking up on my back which is a no-no).


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## helena

I bought a pregnancy pillow a bit like this one, which is a pregnancy 
Illow, baby chair and nursing pillow. For me it lacks a bit of stuffing, but I can easily top it up. I love the idea it has so many uses. https://www.nosbambins.com/Nbb_article7917.html


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## Kellen

Dragon, I love the fact that the Chicco Key Fit allows for babies up to 30lbs to be rear-facing! To me this is a major safety feature that I refuse to do without. A co-worker of mine said they are super durable. They used the same seat for their little girl (who is 3 now) and now for their little boy who turns 1 at the end of this month. To me that speaks volume.

Wamommy, I am a back-sleeper galore! Right now I'm trying to use DH as a backrest, but he is wiggly and doesn't always keep me from rolling onto my back. Apparently I woke him up last night with my mumbling as I tried to find a non-back resting, comfortable position. The Snoogle looks like it might be the thing for me.


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## Jo_Bean

Hope your foot is better soon Helena x 

I have had trouble sleeping too, I'm a side sleeper but I keep waking up all throughout the night and switching sides. My legs just start to ache and get all restless. I've been thinking about a pillow too, I think it would help to have it between my knees :thumbup:

Midnight - our scan is the same day! We will find out what team we are together :yipee:

We've ordered our pram, it's the quinny buzz 3 and we've ordered the carrycot too :D
https://www.quinny.com/ot-en/products/strollers/buzz-3
I walk my dog twice a day, so wanted the off road wheels for that :thumbup:


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## Kellen

Jo that looks like a super cool stroller/pram/thingamajig! With all you having scan dates I'm getting restless to have our appointment next week so we can book our scan.

Has anyone else had leg cramps or an itchy bump? My legs started cramping (just for a few minutes at a time) a couple days ago. My bump has been itching since last night and it is driving me crazy! Poor DH might have some bruises on his ribs from my violent elbow swinging to get to the itch!


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## Jo_Bean

I really love that pram, can't wait to use it! It folds down really small too and i can clip the car seat onto it to just wheel baby around in that, o practical and really lightweight :thumbup:

I find my bump tickles when bean moves! I did have the itches a week or so ago, I think it is just because your skin is stretching.


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## SierraJourney

Hello everyone! I'm training a new girl in our office still, so no BabyandBump for me during the day. :( All work no play! :( But work is over now and I just read up on everyone. 

Sorry to hear about all of the aches and pains! I'm definitely itching a lot from all of the skin stretching! And I'm still sleeping on my back (I start out on my side but wake up on my back). . .this seems to happen even when I put a body pillow behind me. :( I'm going to ask my midwife about it tomorrow and see what she suggests.

I'm loving all of the strollers! Great picks! I just bought a bouncer today---it was used, but in brand-new condition! So happy! Here is a link to what it looks like (I got it from a person in my town, not from Amazon. :) ) 

https://www.amazon.com/Carters-Bumble-Cuddle-Musical-Bouncer/dp/B0041V6K6C/ref=pd_sxp_f_i/192-4770248-2280644


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## SierraJourney

Okay so I need some advice. Dh and I got in another argument tonight ...since our 16 week appt is tomorrow morning, I asked him what we should say if the midwife offers the quad/trisomy 21 test? He already knew my answer : I want to do it ...because I'm a worrier and a planner. So I can prepare to take care if a special needs baby or not. Well Dh got all upset saying we should love the baby anyways and I was making him think of the baby as special needs now instead of a normal baby. He said it's unjust to think differently of the baby because it might have special needs ..... this coming from a man who gets nervous and has to leave the room when there are special needs kids there. I used to work with severely disabled kids and I know how challenging that can be... I just want to be prepared. And I don't want to be shocked or scared or worried or upset when the baby is born - I'd rather know ahead of time. Well Dh is a hothead and got upset and left the room and told me I'm ridiculous. So...I'm wondering ...are you ladies having/had the test done? What are your reasons to/not to? Is it ridiculous to even worry about it? Im young -26-healthy and the only down syndrome individual in my family is my cousins daughter. And I'm from a really large family. Obviously I'm going to love my child either way... but I just figured that they offer the test, so why not take it? But Dh thinks differently which makes me wonder if I should reconsider? Any thoughts?


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## wamommy

Sierra, honestly this is such a personal choice. I happen to be on your side, though. I had an appointment this morning where they did the second blood draw for the quad screen. I should find out in a couple of days whether or not it came back low risk. If it's higher than 1/200 they offer a BRAND NEW test at my ob that is so exciting! Instead of an amnio, which has been the only definitive test up until now, there is a new blood test that is 99% accurate in determining down syndrome. It's still new, but cool technology. I guess my reasons for wanting to test are the same as yours. I Want to be prepared. I would keep and love my child no matter if it had a disability or not, but I want to be educated on how to be the best parent I can if we're given that challenge. Luckily my DH agrees with me, so we're having it done. I understand the other side of the argument, though, and it's a tough call. I'd say have a real heart-to-heart with your DH and hope to come to an agreement you're both happy with. Stressful!!

Jo_Bean, I love that stroller! We used it with DD#1 (the older version) and then moved to the Quinny Zapp once she was older, since it folds SO small. We ended up getting a second Zapp for DD#2, and now we use those most of the time. The seat unzips to put the maxi cosi carseat right in, so we'll probably use the whole set-up again this round!
All we'll need is a Non-pink seat cover if it's a boy :dohh: Hmm... pics are at the bottom and I can't figure out how to move them!! AND I just realized this is the new version, ours is slightly older-modelish... Oh well, lol.

I had a doctor appointment this morning :D It went well, pretty basic stuff. Heart beat was 152 :yipee: I had the blood draw for quad screen, and also for my thyroid. I get the thyroid test every other month because I don't HAVE a thyroid due to cancer in my teens. I've had my levels under control for years, but pregnancy can make it go all wonky. Fingers crossed results come back awesome, but for now it seems to be a happy little monster in there!
 



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## helena

Doctor looked at my foot, which s again mildly worse today. "no idea" was the verdict. Great. Blood pressure normal though, good.
Gve me paracetamol for my headaches. I could have done that myself!..


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## Midnight_Fairy

Love the zap! I am thinking it may be the only pushchair that will fit in my car! 

Only 3 weeks today till I find out if baby is pink or blue and I honestly have no idea! This pregnancy is so different to my other 2. (I already have a boy and a girl). 

Walked dog yesterday and ended up with really bad back ache at about 9pm- probably not helped by the fact my son insisted I sit on his high rise bed to read his story. I nearly got stuck!


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## DragonflyWing

Wow, wamommy, that's an awesome stroller! It's like space-age ;)

Kellen- last night I woke up just as my calf was about to cramp, and I was able to jump up and walk around a little to avoid the cramp! Thank goodness, because leg cramps are SO painful. Just another second or two and it would have been too late. I've also had itching all over my body for a few days, mostly at night. That's really annoying!

I had a terrible dream last night that I was kidnapped by a couple who couldn't have children...they were going to keep me prisoner until I gave birth, steal the baby, and kill me! (in the dream there was only one baby :wacko:) Scary!


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## Kellen

Dragon, that is a scary dream! The only weird dream I've had so far is that the public school system came after me (due to the fact I was homeschooled on and off) and demanded that I retake 6th grade (oddly enough I went to an actual school for 6th grade). I kept trying to explain that I have a BA, MS and am working on my Phd... they told me not too be self-conscious about being pregnant because I wouldn't be the only one in my class expecting a baby. Not scary, just weird and annoying. No one would listen to me.


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## Midnight_Fairy

SierraJourney said:


> Okay so I need some advice. Dh and I got in another argument tonight ...since our 16 week appt is tomorrow morning, I asked him what we should say if the midwife offers the quad/trisomy 21 test? He already knew my answer : I want to do it ...because I'm a worrier and a planner. So I can prepare to take care if a special needs baby or not. Well Dh got all upset saying we should love the baby anyways and I was making him think of the baby as special needs now instead of a normal baby. He said it's unjust to think differently of the baby because it might have special needs ..... this coming from a man who gets nervous and has to leave the room when there are special needs kids there. I used to work with severely disabled kids and I know how challenging that can be... I just want to be prepared. And I don't want to be shocked or scared or worried or upset when the baby is born - I'd rather know ahead of time. Well Dh is a hothead and got upset and left the room and told me I'm ridiculous. So...I'm wondering ...are you ladies having/had the test done? What are your reasons to/not to? Is it ridiculous to even worry about it? Im young -26-healthy and the only down syndrome individual in my family is my cousins daughter. And I'm from a really large family. Obviously I'm going to love my child either way... but I just figured that they offer the test, so why not take it? But Dh thinks differently which makes me wonder if I should reconsider? Any thoughts?


Hiya, I declined the DS test as tbh, its one of many disibilitys. A scan can not tell you if your child has autism etc. The reason I use that example is my son has autism. It really does not bother me and I figured me I will just go with the flow as I class my self as low risk of DS and its one disibilitys of many that its really not worth it in my situation (IMO) hugs x


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## Kellen

Midnight_Fairy said:


> SierraJourney said:
> 
> 
> Okay so I need some advice. Dh and I got in another argument tonight ...since our 16 week appt is tomorrow morning, I asked him what we should say if the midwife offers the quad/trisomy 21 test? He already knew my answer : I want to do it ...because I'm a worrier and a planner. So I can prepare to take care if a special needs baby or not. Well Dh got all upset saying we should love the baby anyways and I was making him think of the baby as special needs now instead of a normal baby. He said it's unjust to think differently of the baby because it might have special needs ..... this coming from a man who gets nervous and has to leave the room when there are special needs kids there. I used to work with severely disabled kids and I know how challenging that can be... I just want to be prepared. And I don't want to be shocked or scared or worried or upset when the baby is born - I'd rather know ahead of time. Well Dh is a hothead and got upset and left the room and told me I'm ridiculous. So...I'm wondering ...are you ladies having/had the test done? What are your reasons to/not to? Is it ridiculous to even worry about it? Im young -26-healthy and the only down syndrome individual in my family is my cousins daughter. And I'm from a really large family. Obviously I'm going to love my child either way... but I just figured that they offer the test, so why not take it? But Dh thinks differently which makes me wonder if I should reconsider? Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Hiya, I declined the DS test as tbh, its one of many disibilitys. A scan can not tell you if your child has autism etc. The reason I use that example is my son has autism. It really does not bother me and I figured me I will just go with the flow as I class my self as low risk of DS and its one disibilitys of many that its really not worth it in my situation (IMO) hugs xClick to expand...

Sierra, sounds like we are a bit in the opposite boat. I am not too keen on having the tests because I know we will keep our LO regardless of any disabilities. No matter how well you plan there are always going to be difficulties. We will probably do the simple blood tests, but not the amino. DH is slightly concerned because one of his first cousins has DS and many of his friend's first born's have autism.


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## wamommy

It is SO tough, and I totally respect what everyone chooses to do. Thinking about your baby's health is like the #1 Mommy worry, and however we can all get through these next few months until baby is born, that's probably the best thing :)

Helena, I'm so sorry you didn't get any help! Is hydrocortisone safe during pregnancy? My DH had something similar and used that to help it go down. It could be contact dermatitis? Have you been wearing flip-flop shoes a lot? I'm no expert, just throwing ideas out there since your Dr. was so NOT helpful! Either way, I'm sorry you're so miserable.

DragonflyWing, it does look space age! My DH handles the fact that he has 2 (and probably 3!) girls by making sure they have techie gadgets galore. His take on it is: It may be pink, but it will be cool! I'm more of the practical type, but I can't complain, since a lot of his gadgets keep LOs busy, lol.


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## GlitterandBug

Hey ladies!

Sierra - I felt exactly like you with being 'prepared'. Nothing can make you 100% prepared but it does help to know there's that option of finding out.

Helena - hope you feel better soon and you find out what's happening with your foot. Bless your LO getting his duvet for you.

Kellen - that's really nice of your friend to get you whatever you need. I really wanted a daughter first time round and DH has got his wish this time and is having his son. Bet you can't wait to find out!

Jo - we have the Quinny Buzz from DD and I love it. Which maxi cosi carseat will you get?

Wamommy - we bought the Zapp too but in bright pink - ooops - so we'll need a different seat when our little man is ready to go into it!!


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## Jo_Bean

I had the test for the same reason, it wouldn't change how I felt about the baby but I know nothing about it and wou,f therefore use the time to prepare and research so that I could give baby the best chances, options and support.

The decision you make is going to be the right one for you, whatever you end up choosing xxx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks so much everyone! After seeing the doctor and discussing it further, I don't think Dh and I will do the quad testing. We have to pay for it out if pocket, and it gets shipped to get tested ...so it would be expensive. We have decided if there is something that we need to know, it will show up on the 20 week ultrasound. So it doesn't calm my worries but I think it's the best decision for us right now. 

On another note, our appointment went wonderfully! Babys heart rate is 153 and doctor said my measurements are great! We're so happy! However, I gained 8 pounds! Doctor said I have to eat less sweets because that's a lot to gain in 4 weeks...which I limit sweets already! :( I'm thinking I need more exercise too though because I'm sure that'd help keep the weight down. :( also the doctor said I need to eat more protein ...I'm vegetarian and I usually get about 40-50 grams of protein a day...but the doctor says I need 60-80 grams a day. :( it's vital for babys brain! I feel so bad that I have been getting less than what I need for baby! Im going to try to get enough protein now though! It's so hard to eat right during pregnancy!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi all.

With my other 2 pregnancys, I was only ever offered a 20 week scan anyway and I didnt ever think about the other test, but when they offered them this time, It just added more worry!

How are you all today? I felt so faint today and ended up blacking out on the school run so left my car up the school :( x


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## Jo_Bean

GlitterandBug said:


> Jo - we have the Quinny Buzz from DD and I love it. Which maxi cosi carseat will you get?

There is a deal on the cabriofix car seat if you get it with the Quinny and with my car, you can have the option of isofix or the belt fixing for that particular seat, so at least we don't have to fork out for the isofix, even though we probably will :haha:



Midnight_Fairy said:


> Hi all.
> 
> With my other 2 pregnancys, I was only ever offered a 20 week scan anyway and I didnt ever think about the other test, but when they offered them this time, It just added more worry!
> 
> How are you all today? I felt so faint today and ended up blacking out on the school run so left my car up the school :( x

Oh no! that's not good at all! Did you eat breakfast?


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## Midnight_Fairy

Nope so my own fault really but felt so nauseous this morning and I do have low BP (was 90/30 at 16week app) so lucky my friend had a capri sun in her car so gave me that and gave me a lift home. I am not a great one for people fussing over me so its been really hard to accept that sometimes I just have to go and sit down!! x


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## Jo_Bean

I know the feeling. Sometimes you have to let people help you! 

Maybe you should eat something now, a banana or something!


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## Midnight_Fairy

I am going to make some lunch and try and stop rushing for now and carry snacks around even if its just a small pack of raisins :) x


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## Kellen

I was just in the kitchen at work making myself a nice bowl of oatmeal when I looked down. And what did I see? A bump. I know that it has been there for a while, but for the first time it hit me that I am actually beginning to look pregnant and have the formation of a proper bump. I don't know why this is so shocking to me, but it really is. There is actual a live little baby growing inside of me... whoa.


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## Jo_Bean

Kellen said:


> I was just in the kitchen at work making myself a nice bowl of oatmeal when I looked down. And what did I see? A bump. I know that it has been there for a while, but for the first time it hit me that I am actually beginning to look pregnant and have the formation of a proper bump. I don't know why this is so shocking to me, but it really is. There is actual a live little baby growing inside of me... whoa.

Aww :hugs: congratulations Kellen :haha:


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## wamommy

Congrats on a great appointment, Sierra :D I wouldn't worry about the weight gain. I've gained a lot this month too, so maybe it's a growth spurt? The important thing is your baby seems to be happy!!

Midnight, how scary! I have low blood pressure too, and I always have a zip-loc bag full of something in my bag. Today it's Cheez-its :dohh: Not the healthiest snack, but it keeps me from getting so woozy and faint.

Kellen, that's awesome :) IT is amazing, isn't it?

Jo_Bean, we have the older Maxi Cosi Mico car seat and were planning on using it again, but if there's a special deal on a newer model:happydance: Maybe I'll just convince DH we need a new one?


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## DragonflyWing

So glad to hear your appointment went well, Sierra! I know what you mean about it being difficult to eat right...it's a daily struggle!

Midnight, I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling great today! I hope you feel better after eating and resting a bit :hugs:

Kellen- I had a "whoa" moment this morning too! I was in the bathroom brushing my teeth, and I turned sidways in the mirror and said "whoa!" then ran out to show DH how my bump has grown. I even took a picture, which I'll include at the bottom.

Does anyone have any tips on how to avoid the round ligament pain? I've practically disabled myself twice already today...I must have turned oddly getting out of the car this morning and couldn't even speak for a minute because the pain was so bad. Then like 20 minutes later, I sneezed and owwwwww man that hurts!
 



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## helena

Oh midnight, sorry to hear of your blacking out, sounds scarey! I guess it just goes to show how important breakfast is right now. Even when. Let sick I could manage nutty muesli so I am lucky I guess. Hey Sierra - maybe nuts could be a way to more protein?? Don't worry too much about the weight, it'll all balance out I be.our babies doubled weight in the last couple of weeks so maybe that's it. I know I am gaining quickly, but I will sort out how to lose it later, hopefully breastfeeding will work it's magic! It was brilliant with my 1st. I gained about 18 kilos (x2.2 for pounds?) and lost it in 3 months with a guzzler little baby!

I have the Phil and Teds double sports stroller, just bought it from a friend. All this talk of car seats reminds me I must figure out what car seat goes with it. It's so exciting now we can actually prepare with relative safety isn't it! Kellen - I know what you mean about suddenly realizing you are elegant. I have those sudden moments every nw and then and it amazes me every time. And it amazes me how I got this far without really believing it!lol

Dragon, I have to bend and tense a bit before sneezing. Or hold my tummy with my hands. Otherwise ouch!!


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## Kellen

Round ligament pain is a pain. Last night I tried to roll over in bed and all of a sudden I was struck with paralyzing pain. I let out a little gasp and DH rolled over to "help" I pushed him away and told him to let me be and that this pain was all his fault. :haha: Poor guy :( After that I said sorry and cuddled up, once the pain had passed. I also almost did a "sneeze'n'pee" while sitting at the computer last night. DH almost fell out of his chair he was laughing so hard.

Dragon, that is a lovely bump! I'm going to have DH take a picture of mine tonight... after we visit the chiropractor.


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## Midnight_Fairy

made some flapjacks to carry around with me and granola :) DDs at a afterschool club till 7 so just me and DS for a bit. x


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## helena

Keller - in my previous pregnancies I had to ban my very funny husband from
Making any sudden jokes from about month 7, due to the laugh-and-wee situation!ofcourse my husband found it hilarious! Lol. Sounds like you are going to have a hilarious, if damp, time starting already! Haha


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## wamommy

Oh, thank goodness, ladies... just had a scare! My doctor's office called me back with my test results after only a day and a half! Usually I have to hunt them down after a week and beg for my results. I came home to a message that they had called with some test results. My heart stopped beating. Why were they calling so fast? Is something wrong? I called them immediately, and sat on hold for 10 minutes about to burst into tears. Finally my OB's nurse answered and told me that all of my tests (thyroid and quad screen) came back normal! I could have passed out from relief. Ugh, thank goodness. Now I can relax a little.

Beautiful bump, DragonflyWing!!!!! 

I just came back from a long day at our State's Fair. It's HUGE, and so fun. We were also 90 degrees here today, so it was just gorgeous. My kids rode a bunch of rides, and I felt so proud of them and how much they're growing up. They even rode a roller coaster without mommy and daddy! It was tiny, but still, lol. I'm wiped out, though, and going to lie down a bit.


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## helena

Phew wamommy, glad it was good news after all! Sounds like a great day all round :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

Have a good weekend all x


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## helena

Still have my weird foot thing, is getting worse not better since I saw the GP who had o idea on Thursday. Think I will find another doctor on monda, I hate the idea of being pregnant and having an untreated infection..
Especially as I am still not definitely feeling baby yet s can't be sure he or she is ok. I THINK I felt baby on Thursday but couldn't have been gas...and sometimes I wonder if I can feel a very faint rummaging in there,,,but so faint I may be imagining it!.
Super tired today but off to a BBQ at a friends house In half an hour so very happy about that.
Oh, and very happy with DH who went out for a curry with the boys last night and came home at 10 with an extra Korma and rice for me! I had already eaten dinner much earlier when he was out..but managed to polish off a fair bit of curry too!
Then this morning I had a cuppa and toast brought to me in bed and time for a big long lazy afternoon nap today. Definitely a gold star for him this weekend! Xx


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## nicole844

Kellen- I have also been super itchy!! I have found using a TON of lotion helps and will prevent stretch marks also.. fingers crossed. 
Is anyone using anything special for prevention yet? I have read about a few online but they seem to all be wishful thinking! 

Sierra: SO glad to hear your appointment went well! I ended up doing the quad screen, mainly so I wouldn't have any worry in the back of my mind! However, I don't think it would have mattered in the end. Just enjoy the ride & everything will work out beautifully, no matter what. Sorry you were having a rough time with DH! :hugs:

Dragonfly: You are not alone in the crazy dream world! I have found it so hard to sleep due to my insane dreams- all very vibrant or very scary :cry: Definitely kidnap/murder dreams in full swing! Absolutely awful. 
And what a lovely bump you have! Those two little ones are coming along nicely. 

Wamommy: YAYYY for your test results, I'm sure that was very nerve racking! So glad everything is progressing nicely. And the fair- how fun! Ours is coming soon and I am definitely looking forward to some good clean fun! 

Midnight: Welcome and Congrats!! 
I am right there with you with the blacking out fits. I know I am eating enough (and some extra) and drinking tons of water, so I am getting very concerned. :wacko: My doctor wants to see me Monday- It happens about every other day: Ringing ears, hot flash, tunnel vision... along with migraines and stiff neck pain. I am hoping everything okay and maybe my blood pressure is just low, but who knows?! 

I absolutely love everyone's baby gear! We have not invested in anything yet.. just scouting online! Anyone have suggestions for a great carseat (we were thinking Graco Snugride?) 
I also saw someone ask if I had any gender signs, and the answer to that is YES!! Almost all of them. I am team blue and had: Salty sour cravings, low heart rate (134 at 16 weeks), high bump, blue on the chinese gender prediction, no skin breakouts, hair growing faster, and not much sickness after the first few weeks. May all just be my mind though! :shrug:

How is everyone doing this weekend?!


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## DragonflyWing

I had some more crazy scary dreams last night, and I've felt a bit off ever since I woke up, because of them. Just feel kind of disturbed and sick.

helena, I've had that faint rummaging sensation too! I don't always feel definite movements, but if I lie quietly, I often feel a faint sensation of motion in there, like they're jumping around, but I'm only feeling a hint of it. Hard to explain!


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## DebDebs

Hey. I'm due 16th feb 13. I'm looking for a bump buddy to share experiences with too so let me know if anyone interested! X


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## Blue_bear

Were all here sharing Debs. :) my edd is 13th too.

I have one word....HEARTBURN!!! :(


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## Kellen

Good Monday Morning Everyone,

Just as a *warning* this post is a bit of a rant. Because why would things run smoothly on a Monday morning?

Last night DH did not come to bed until 2am because he was up playing computer games and watching new TV episodes that we just got. During this time I was up and down several times. I asked him if he would please be ready to get up in the morning to take me to work so that he can get the car assessed (we still need repair work from the accident last month). He said, sure, that would be fine. I reminded him that I get to work around 7:30 so he would need to get up early with me.

This morning our alarm goes off so I get up, eat breakfast, take my prenatal, get dressed, brush teeth, feed the cat, print off coupons... and he hasn't moved. I go in the bedroom to turn off the alarm and ask him to get up. He didn't even wake up. Mumbled "I love you be safe" and rolled away from me. This really makes me angry (although I know I'm most likely overreacting from baby hormones). I asked him - in a louder than needed voice - "Well, are you getting up to take me to work? We need to get the repairs assessed? If you don't do it today I don't know when it is going to get done." Silence... "I don't even know why I'm bothering to talk to you since apparently this isn't important enough for you to even partially wake up for." Que slamming doors on the way out to the car.

I feel like to do so many things for him that it would be nice if something I needed done could get done on my timetable. For example, this weekend I got up at 5am on Saturday (my day off, yesterday is our day off together, and today is DH's last day off) and drove him to an event for his work. I then went home cleaned house, did laundry and worked on my doctorate. In this midst of all that he called because it was raining and they needed my car to haul and nasty, wet tent back to the store. Does it really seem like a hardship for me to ask him to get up at 7am, drive me to work and then sometime before 4pm take the car for a repair assessment?


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## DragonflyWing

Oh man, Kellen, I would be angry too! Honestly, I would have dragged him out of bed lol. I bet when you talk to him later, he will claim he doesn't even remember you waking him up. DH does that sometimes, so I know that I have to make 100% sure that he's awake and comprehending what I'm saying. That usually involves poking and prodding him and saying "get up, wake up, come on, get up" until he's so annoyed that he can't help but be awake ;) Then I usually make him stand up and walk around a little to be doubly sure. That way he can't claim he was asleep and has no memory of it!


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## Kellen

Oh, I know he remembers last night, but I am 100% sure he was 100% asleep this morning. It would literally have taken me 20 minutes to get him out of bed. He is prior army so I have to be very cautious about what angle I approach to wake him up or suffer bruises (he doesn't do it meanly, but training kicks in and he attacks his unknown assailant -ie ME!- until he realizes who it is).
He has the ability to only wake up if it is his idea. Apparently his idea was to stay up until 2am and then sleep until who-knows when. I'm still a bit ticked off at him. And I think he knows it because he has yet to call or text me at work. Yet I feel schizophrenic because I'm looking at nice places to take him for our 2 year wedding anniversary in a couple weeks. Today he needs to be punished, but in 2 weeks he deserves to be rewarded? I think I've lost it...


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry Kellen, how frustrating! Hopefully he will give you a huge apology tonight, since you deserve it! As for your anniversary, I'm sure this will all wear off by then. Maybe he should surprise YOU with something amazing :thumbup:

DebDebs, this is a great group! You're welcome to hang out and share with us :)

Helena, how are you doing today? How is your foot? Your DH sounds like a keeper. I'm admittedly jealous, lol.

DragonflyWing, I'm with you with the dreams. I've had some that are so bad that I wake up crying and shaking. I was actually afraid to sleep for a few nights after one last week. Hopefully this will subside! With achy hips and not being able to sleep on my back, the last thing I need is something to make it harder to sleep.

Up until now I have only felt slight flicks (I compare it to lightly tapping the back of your hand with one finger, it's so subtle) and a couple of rumbles. Yesterday at church I had my first real kick, I think. It felt different than the rest, and surprised me enough that I kind of jumped in my seat. I want more of those!!! I forgot how wonderful feeling the baby is, and I can't wait for more. It will balance out how absolutely huge I feel. My DH told me yesterday that I look like I did when I was 7 months along last time :cry: I'm going to be a house!!


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## helena

Hi ladies! Kellen, I would be mad too! Are you serious in that you can't wake him or he goes into combat mode?? Wow. I thought in the army they would have been used to being woken at the crack of dawn by a big voice shouting? Or maybe that's just in the films!!!...lol.

As my foot has been getting redder and more swollen despite the GP last week saying " I don't know" I went to the hospital emergency section today. I explained I didn't know if it was an emergency or to, but my doctor had been true,y unhelpful and I am pregnant and worried about infection. Turns out they agree I have an infection of some lower level of the skin or other, and am now on antibiotics (pregnancy safe ones they tell me) for 7 days, with warning to monitor it and to go back to crap doctor in a week. I asked if the infection was a danger to baby and she didn't really say no, just said to take the pills and said we need to make sure it doesn't become a bigger problem. Am so annoyed with the GP who did nothing for me!! Grrrrr

Am still not definately feeling baby so it worries me.. Though DH tells me it's fine, still early.....next OB appointment two weeks away :(

Oh wamommy, so excited for you and your kick!!! Xxxxx


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## Kellen

helena said:


> Hi ladies! Kellen, I would be mad too! Are you serious in that you can't wake him or he goes into combat mode?? Wow. I thought in the army they would have been used to being woken at the crack of dawn by a big voice shouting? Or maybe that's just in the films!!!...lol.
> 
> As my foot has been getting redder and more swollen despite the GP last week saying " I don't know" I went to the hospital emergency section today. I explained I didn't know if it was an emergency or to, but my doctor had been true,y unhelpful and I am pregnant and worried about infection. Turns out they agree I have an infection of some lower level of the skin or other, and am now on antibiotics (pregnancy safe ones they tell me) for 7 days, with warning to monitor it and to go back to crap doctor in a week. I asked if the infection was a danger to baby and she didn't really say no, just said to take the pills and said we need to make sure it doesn't become a bigger problem. Am so annoyed with the GP who did nothing for me!! Grrrrr
> 
> Am still not definately feeling baby so it worries me.. Though DH tells me it's fine, still early.....next OB appointment two weeks away :(
> 
> Oh wamommy, so excited for you and your kick!!! Xxxxx

I'm glad that you're finally getting treatment for your foot! Leaving an infection alone is not good. I hope that your new antibiotics clear it up quickly.

Waking up DH :sleep:- He trusts me too much and doesn't respond if I do gentle shoulder or hip shakes and my voice is quote: "Too soothing." Apparently the common way to be woken up in the army is for someone to slap you on your feet! I hate doing this to him because he wakes up super startled and then becomes grumpy. And don't dare try to take the covers away or he will come up swinging! :nope: I have only found one sure way to make sure I have his undivided attention, but then if I stop he calls me a tease :blush:


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## Kellen

Sorry for spamming this board with my problems, but this is becoming ridiculous. Apparently it is my fault my DH had a bad day because: "It's funny how you can remember things from when you're waking up." What?! So it is my fault you stayed up late and refused to get out of bed and made me mad? It is my fault you are now refusing to talk to me like an adult? It is my fault you refused to answer any of my texts or phone calls?

DH rides a motorcycle. So as I was pulling into our street I saw him going the opposite way so I followed. We ended up at the chiropractor which was a good thing. But I want to know what I was supposed to do if I got home, didn't see the bike and couldn't reach him on his phone? I would have been freaking out. Now we are going to pretend to be happy and go to our nephew's karate belt test.


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## Midnight_Fairy

Oh dear Kellen :(


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm SO glad someone is doing something for your foot!! I'm sure it's better to take safe antibiotics than leave an infection untreated, so hurray for the emergency section. Let us know if it gets better! Just think, you could already be several days into your antibiotics if your GP wasn't such a poo :growlmad:

Kellen, I don't know your DH or you guys' relationship, but he sounds like he's doing what my DH (and a lot of men, well...people... do). He feels guilty and/or ashamed of his behavior last night and this morning, and instead of being able to own up to it he is getting defensive. As completely unhelpful as it is, perhaps it's his way of turning it on you so he doesn't have to feel bad? It's very immature, but he'll probably snap out of it. My 4-year-old does it. She spills her water. She starts to cry, then stops, looks at me and says "It's YOUR fault for giving me the wrong cup!!!!" :dohh: I really hope things get better!


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## Jo_Bean

Helena - really glad you persevered and got someone to look at your foot! Let's hope it gets better now :thumbup:

Dragon - I'm having the nightmares too :( and I seem to have got into a habit of waking up about 3 or 4 in the early morning and feeling so wide awake and then struggling to get back to sleep so that when it is time to get up I am absolutely worn out! I'm actually taking a couple of days off work as I just feel exhausted!

Kellen - I wouldn't be worried about being angry one minute and then arranging something romantic the next, it's just because you are being practical and know that something has to be sorted. It's our anniversary in 2 weeks too! I think I will just arrange a dinner or something. I bet my husband will still plan to play tennis with his brother though because he's just that stupid! Our gender scan is the day after!!

Wamommy - that's amazing about the kick! My tickles have been getting more frequent but I've not had a good old kick yet. I bet it was lovely and weird all at the same time!

Debs - I class all the ladies here as my bump buddies! It's a lovely relaxed group so just feel free to join in :thumbup:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone, This week is flying by yet again! Really itching to buy more baby stuff but waiting till we know gender now!


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## helena

Oh I wish I felt safe enough to buy. Am just not believing everything is ok in there. If I could just feel him or her! Really feeling nervous about it all, just not believing it is there...come on baby kick mummy!


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## Midnight_Fairy

I dont feel many kicks AT ALL. This is my 3rd baby but 4th pregnancy. I just cant believe the kicks are not very strong yet!


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## Kellen

Good Morning Ladies!

Thanks for all your support! Apparently pizza absolves all wrongs. He confessed (after we went home) that he had no idea why I was mad all he could remember was me slamming the front door. So I explained, he apologized and we're all good. 

Jo - sorry that you are feeling so tired due to dreams. It is a bummer that you can't go back to sleep. :(

Helena - I'm sure your little one will start bruising your ribs any day now!


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## Jo_Bean

Oh good Kellen, I'm so glad he apologised and you sorted it all out x


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## DragonflyWing

I'm glad he apologized, Kellen!


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## jades91

hi everyone! im pretty new to baby and bump, im due my first child on feb 11th id love to join this group!? please :) :flower: xxx


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## helena

Hi there! Welcome to the gang :)x


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## DragonflyWing

Hello, jades91! Welcome :flower:


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## Kellen

jades91 said:


> hi everyone! im pretty new to baby and bump, im due my first child on feb 11th id love to join this group!? please :) :flower: xxx

Welcome to our group! We're glad to have you aboard.


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## Jo_Bean

:wave: hi Jade!


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## Kellen

Just as a random note: DH apparently is still feeling bad about his attitude. He had me lay down when we got home from work last night. He washed all the dishes! (he would rather do _any_ other chore than this). And then fixed me dinner. Sweet man just needed a knock to the side of the head.

Also one of his co-workers commented on my bump yesterday. She hadn't seen me in a week and a half. Apparently I have "exploded!" lol I need to have DH take a picture.


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## helena

Exploded! Brilliant! :) I had a friend ask how many weeks I was this afternoon, followed a nodding head and a big wide smirk - clearly thought I was going to be enormous. Hehe, embrace the big bellies I say!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so glad things got sorted out with DH :D Also, I'd love to see a pic of the explosion :haha: I'll bet you're super cute. I'll try to take a pic today too, as yucky as I feel in my skin right now. I feel pretty comfortable with you ladies!

Welcome, Jade :flower: This is a fantastic group, and we're happy to have you!


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## Jo_Bean

Kellen! I think you can squeeze a few more days out of him for his 'awful' behaviour ;) 

I feel like my belly has exploded this week actually! I am back to work after a couple of days off tomorrow, we'll see if anyone notices the exploding bump :wacko:


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## DragonflyWing

I think 16-20 weeks is a big growth spurt time! My bump is exploding too. Had an ultrasound today to check my cervical length (was fine), and got some more pics! 

In the third one, the view is from above the babies' heads...looks like little boy is elbowing little girl in the head :haha:
 



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## helena

Excellent pictures dragon! It's good to see they are starting their sibling bickering already (elbow to head!) lol xx


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## helena

We are 18 weeks! Yyyyyeeeeeehhhhaaaaaa!

Thought I felt baby yesterday but it was odd. Not a flutter, not a popping feeling, not a quick kick but as decimate and slightly slow prod. Like someone poking me with one finger slowly and deliberately from inside! It was low, below bellow button level, on ne side, and was so clear it stopped me in my tracks. I didn't think it was wind, was no other feelings surrounding it, just one hard poke.very odd. We were sitting at the table as the kids ate dinner, just talking and suddenly I went "Oh!" and stopped. I wasn't trying to feel it. Hoping it was baby just letting me know he or she (I am feeling she now) is there after all. But are bones hard enough yet for me to feel such a poke? Maybe, I read the bones are hardening this week?
Whatever it was, it was bizarre!

Hope everyone is well today xx


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## Midnight_Fairy

happy 18weeks ladies :D


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## Jo_Bean

happy sweet potato week!


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## DragonflyWing

helena, yes, their bones are hard enough to feel a poke! Just in the last few days I've been feeling stronger movements and even some jabs...so fun!


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## Kellen

Hey All!

Just got back from our doctor's appointment. It was super fast! 15 minutes... I guess that means we're healthy! Anyways, they did the blood draw for the anomaly test and I should hear back by the end of next week with the results. Midwife measured the baby and told me either my child is huge or I'm 1.5-2 weeks ahead of schedule seeing as I measured at 20 weeks.

Last night DH and I got out a bunch of my old kids books and read to the baby for 45 minutes. Then DH's cousin called. While he was on the phone the baby was super active so I had him press firmly against my belly. He was able to feel a tiny nudge before LO decided it was nap-time again! Woot! He was so excited. Had a silly grin for the rest of the evening. :)

Oh, and we go in on the 26th for our gender scan. So excited!


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing, those pictures are gorgeous!! It's just amazing to me that there are two in there. How very cool!

Helena, yay for pokes! Hopefully it will become more and more frequent. When do you find out if your girl hunch is right?

Kellen, your appointment sounds like my last one. I figure if they go fast it's because they don't have any concerns, so Yay!

It's supposed to be 81degrees here today, so I'm off to enjoy our last day of summer! In a week or two the 6 months of rain starts :wacko:


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## Kellen

Dragon, those are fantastic pictures! I missed them my first scroll down the page. Looks like you are going to have a handful with those two. :)

Helena, it sounds like your little one is finally wanting to make itself known.


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## jades91

Aw thanks so much everyone! I'm still so new and a bit confussed! Hope everyone is ok :) xx


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## helena

Wamommy, my scan is pnt until 21 weeks, in 5 October, seems so far away!

Oh she's, my doctor whites through my appointments and doesn't really offer lots of info unless I ask. I guess he s a busy man and assumes I will ask if I need to know anything? But yes, they go so fast. 

Exciting to be measuring ahead kellen! Maybe we will have our babies a the same time ish - I will definitely be a c section so will be a least 1 if not 2 weeks early.

Feeling a bit stressed tonight. DH sold his car today (a massive deal as he loves that car!) so we can buy a 7 sweater for the bigger family. But then the guy who bought it rang 2 hours later and wants his money back as some light or other on the dash board has come on....sorry, but it isn't our car anymore,your problem! DH is a reasonable man and didn't as that to him, but told him to think about it, and maybe see a mechanic. It's not a big deal and used to happen a lot, but this man doesn't seem to know about engines and is panicing. but to be fair we don't owe him his money back...and we don't know how he drove the car since he left our house hours ago....Ooof, is just a stress we don't need. I told DH we can only be nice to a point...the man bought the car in a good state, what happens next is his concern... Anyway, just a rant!


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## Kellen

helena said:


> Exciting to be measuring ahead kellen! Maybe we will have our babies a the same time ish - I will definitely be a c section so will be a least 1 if not 2 weeks early.

DH and I are hoping that our LO will arrive a wee bit early. His grandpa's birthday is January 31st and mine is February 6th. So we think it would be cool to have the baby on one of those days.
Sort of off topic, but my dad was born on his grandpa's birthday, who was born on his grandpa's birthday - my nephew missed my dad's birthday by 6 hours... the little stinker! So we'd like to carry on the tradition!

Helena - that sounds annoying and stressful. If he was happy with the car when he drove off with it then it becomes his problem! I'm sure your DH showed him the car and satisfied him that everything was in working order. Some people...


----------



## helena

My brother was born on our mums birthday, and then he got married on the same date! His daughter was born two days later date wise.

I was due on 7/7/77 but was 4 days late :(


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## Midnight_Fairy

Im on team pink :D


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## Jo_Bean

Congrats midnight :hugs: a little girl :cloud9:


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## Kellen

Congrats on the little girl, Midnight.


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## jades91

Congrats midnight! I find out on tuesday what we're having. Soo excited! Xx


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations, Midnight! :flower:


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## SierraJourney

Hello all!

Just a quick note to let you all know that I'm here and read from time to time. Life has been so busy that I haven't had any time to be on here. A girl in my office quit, so my boss has me doing my job, her job, and training a new girl! :wacko: Needless to say after a day on the job, with being pregnant, when I get home, I just cry and fall asleep on the couch. :( So. . .please please forgive my absence from here. I still care so much for all of you and will check back as I can. 

Congrats to Midnight on team pink!
Kellen so glad things are going better now.
To the new gals---HELLO and WELCOME! :)
Everyone else---so glad to hear there are little baby nudges and good points. 

I'll continue to read and post as I can!!

:hugs:


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## wamommy

Congrats on team pink, midnight! Exciting :D We're starting to balance out, it will be fun to see how many pinks and blues there are in the next month or so.

Helena, I'm right before you on Oct 3 for the gender scan. 21 weeks seems so late to find out! At least they'll probably be sure by then :) As far as the car thing goes, as hard as it is, it was his car at that point. That's why they always say get the car checked by a mechanic before buying it! When I was a kid we sold our Volvo to a nice couple who rang our doorbell an hour later and they had broken down a mile down the road!! My Mom felt awful, but told them she couldn't help them. It's so hard!

Sierra, I'm so sorry work is stressful :( I hope they don't keep you on this work load long, since it can't be any fun! In the meantime, don't worry about us! When you have more time, we'll be here. Until then, I hope all is well. :flower:

Jades, I added you to the front page :D When are you due? 

NVM just saw you're due the 11th a couple pages back!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Thanks all xxx


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## jades91

Thanks wamommy! I'm due feb 11th so excited, its my first. I'm really new to b+b too I'm still figuring out how it works! When are you due? Do u know if your team blue or pink yet? :)


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## helena

On,one psychic cheri22 did me a free reading, she predicts a boy coming my way. Not that I believe she is real, but time will tell!


Get me - was out with friends until midnight last night! Had a lovely evening at a restaurant. Haven't been out that late since pre bfp! The energy must be back! Yay! 

Happy weekend all x x x


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## Midnight_Fairy

I am still fairly tired but not as bad as first tri x


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## wamommy

Jades, I find out what team I'm on October 3rd! It still seems like time is crawling to get there.

Helena, I haven't tried the on-line psychics, but my DH has had 2 dreams this week that the baby is a girl. I'm actually really glad he has! He wants a boy so badly that I've been really concerned he'll be disappointed with a girl. Having had a couple dreams that made him sure it's a girl has made him kind of come around to the idea. He actually rubbed my belly today and said "hello in there, little girl!" In a sweet voice. It's kind of a relief! If it's a boy, awesome! But if it's a girl I think we're both ok with having 3. Girls are pretty amazing, and we wouldn't have to buy a thing!

Hurray for bursts of energy! I had one yesterday and started cleaning my house top to bottom. After a couple hours I collapsed on the couch and felt like I'd run a marathon. My house looks amazing, though!


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## helena

Yay for your cleaning efforts! After last night I feel pretty shattered but am cooking DH a special meal tonight as he has been a good boy this week, selling his speed demon boy racer car for the good of the Family, a big deal for him. M making this: https://www.simplythenest.com/journ...cakes-and-plum-sauc.html?printerFriendly=true mmmmmm

Yes I feel the same - if we end up with 3 boys that's fine, and so so very practical! 

My 4 year old was super sweet yesterday, as little boys can be occasionally, and when I got dressed to go out with friends he said "mummy you look beautiful in that, like a shooting star!" awwwww I could have eaten him all up!


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## wamommy

Yuuuummmmm.... that duck sounds amazing! I can't cook, lol... but I wish I could!

What a sweet thing for your son to say!! :cloud9: That would have melted me to the floor!


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## helena

I know, I left the house as a very smiley lady after that!! :)


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## Kellen

Good Monday Morning Everyone! Glad to hear that at least some of us are getting energy back. I'll take a vial of whatever you guys had... I'm still dragging.

However, last night when DH came to bed the LO was moving around like crazy. So I put his hand over the spot and he was like, "Whoa! There's a lump there!" Yes, dear, that is called your child. :haha:
He tried to feel on Saturday night but the baby would stop moving every time he placed his hand on my belly. According to DH this obviously means it is a girl and she is playing coy with her daddy. Like Wamommy I'm glad that DH is coming around to the team pink side of things because I don't want him to be too disappointed at our scan next Wednesday. He wants a son for his first... I'm really wanting a girl, but I know we'll both love whatever!

I was lazy last night and decided to call in a pizza. Stupid me. I am lactose intolerant, but had eaten pizza a couple times, but with tomato sauce. Last night white sauce sounded super good. Oooh, I paid for it and am still paying for it. Note: no more dairy products for me. :(


----------



## Kellen

The nurse from my OB's office just called with the test results of our Abnormality blood work. Everything came back completely negative. No spinabifida, no Downs, no anything. DH is very relieved. He has a 1st cousin with Downs and wanted to make sure that we were prepared should anything like that be happening to our baby. But nope, we're in the clear. I knew everything was good, but it is always nice to have that reassurance.

Also I've been told not to plan anything for our anniversary on Friday. Apparently DH has a surprise in store for me. I think he is still making up for his bad behavior last Monday.


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## wamommy

I'm so glad your results came back clear, Kellen! :happydance: It also sounds like your anniversary should be wonderful. Good job DH for planning something for YOU!

My DH still can't feel LO kick from the outside. He tries once in a while, and I have to tell him, "you won't feel it, it's super light! Wait a week or two." He says it's his favorite thing about pregnancy and makes the baby seem more real. I can understand that. Come on baby, step up the kicks!

How was everyone else's weekend? I haven't heard from some of you beautiful ladies in a while, and just checking in to make sure all is well :D


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## DragonflyWing

So glad to hear everything came back negative, Kellen! 

Sorry I've been missing for a few days...haven't been on the computer much. My birthday is this coming Thursday, so we went out to my favorite restaurant to celebrate on Saturday. I was a little disappointed, though, as they undercooked my steak...some of it was very rare, and I had to give it to DH. My doctor told me I can eat steak cooked however I want, but I prefer it a little less raw. DH said I should have sent it back to have it cooked more, but most of it was fine, so if they cooked it more it would have overcooked the better part of it. They also had run out of bread (??) so they gave us some dinky little dinner rolls that weren't even warm. Normally this restaurant is consistently excellent, so I was pretty surprised. Apparently they had been extremely busy that night and were rushing everything.

I'm leaving tomorrow morning on my very first business trip! It's only one night, but I'll be presenting some stuff to a very important new client (i.e. they are going to be bringing in million$$ for the company). My portion of the presentation is relatively small, but I'm still so nervous! I've never done anything like this before, and I've never even met the other people I'll be presenting with (they are based all over the country). I'm also a little concerned about how I'll feel after traveling for 5 hours to get there. Wish me luck!!


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## SierraJourney

Hello all!! *knock on wood*, things are looking a little brighter at work today! :) So, I had time to read all of your lovely posts! :)

I performed an all-weekend music festival this weekend, and boy am I feeling it today! My whole pelvis ACHES! Must have overdone it! :( 

I'm feeling baby more often but once in a while I'll have a day or so where I don't feel it---I may be too busy to notice or maybe it's not moving as much. . .but today is one of those days and it SCARES me! Anyone else not feeling the baby regularly?


----------



## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> I'm feeling baby more often but once in a while I'll have a day or so where I don't feel it---I may be too busy to notice or maybe it's not moving as much. . .but today is one of those days and it SCARES me! Anyone else not feeling the baby regularly?

I'm exactly the same. I usually have a time each day when I'm sitting still, like reading or sitting at the computer and drinking a tea, when baby will get really active for 20-30 minutes. Then there will be a LONG stretch where I feel nothing at all and get worried. I'd say total I probably feel about 10-20 movement a DAY, which isn't much. I know it will get stronger and more frequent, but for now it can be scary!

DragonflyWing, your trip sounds exciting! Sometimes the things you are most nervous about become the things you are most proud of, so this should be great!! I hope it goes well, and can't wait to hear about it.

Sierra, I'm glad all is well with you. An all-weekend music festival sounds awesome!! Hopefully now you can take some time to rest and relax, though.


----------



## jades91

Sierra I'm not feeling my LO move much at all, its only once in a while and I never get any big movements :( also I'm barely showing and I'm 19weeks today it is my first but does anyone know if this is normal? Hope everyone is ok and how are the pregnancys coming along? Ps I find out the sex of my baby tomorrow! Wish me luck! :) xx


----------



## SierraJourney

jades91 said:


> Sierra I'm not feeling my LO move much at all, its only once in a while and I never get any big movements :( also I'm barely showing and I'm 19weeks today it is my first but does anyone know if this is normal? Hope everyone is ok and how are the pregnancys coming along? Ps I find out the sex of my baby tomorrow! Wish me luck! :) xx

My sister didn't start showing until 19 weeks. . .so I'd say that's normal. I popped early and everyone is suprised. It sounds like a lot of people don't start showing until aroun 18-20 weeks. Congrats on finding out gender tomorrow!! :happydance:


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## helena

Sierra - I am still hardly feel baby at all!! One big poke a few days ago and a few light feelings which may or may not be baby....:( 
Glad you had a good weekend, the festival sounds fun!! Do you have any clips of your USC? YouTube? Would love to see.
Good luck on your trip dragonfly!!!! Et us k ow how you get on. I wouldn't worry about beng tired - you will be running on adrenalin I bet!!
Kellen, great news in your tests! Even though I felt everything was ok for my baby having the blood test for spina bifida and downs come back with good results was so reassuring. And enjoy your anniversary!! I wonder what he has planned. Seems his grumpy behavior was well timed as he is making up for it nicely now :)

Sierra - I am also getting pelvic pains. Well, more in the top of my leg, the tendon between my leg and body (is this what's called the groin?) and I was reading about SPD today. Seems to get worse after sitting but I get tired really quick standing..hoping. Have just strained something and it will get better and isn't SPD. I have an exercise ball and I read sitting on that helps a lot so I am dig it out.

Wamommy - in my first pregnancy I think it was only a week between me feeling baby kick and DH being able to feel it on the outside. Hope your DH gets a good kick soon!

My energy is on a high right now. I am still occasionally having a power nap for 20 mins in the afternoon, but otherwise I am doing well energy wise. Today I took eldest to school, dropped youngest at nursery, came back,hovered and mopped living room / kitchen, hovered kids bedroom, tidied kitchen, collected kids, made lunch, took eldest back to school, took youngest to park for 2 hours (I did sit for some of it!), went to supermarket, collected big boy from school, came home and fed them, bathed them and put them to bed, now going to make dinner and watch some tv. And I don't feel too exhausted. Yet! :) :) I have been busy like this for the last 3 days...dare I suggest I am blooming?! Mabe not blooming to look at but certainly firing on all cylinders energy wise!


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## DragonflyWing

helena, I wish I had some of your energy! I would drop dead if I had to do all that :haha:

I have a friend who is 26 weeks pregnant with her first baby, and she's not really showing at all. All is well with the baby, some people just show much later. Nothing to worry about!


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> Yay for your cleaning efforts! After last night I feel pretty shattered but am cooking DH a special meal tonight as he has been a good boy this week, selling his speed demon boy racer car for the good of the Family, a big deal for him. M making this: https://www.simplythenest.com/journ...cakes-and-plum-sauc.html?printerFriendly=true mmmmmm
> 
> Yes I feel the same - if we end up with 3 boys that's fine, and so so very practical!
> 
> My 4 year old was super sweet yesterday, as little boys can be occasionally, and when I got dressed to go out with friends he said "mummy you look beautiful in that, like a shooting star!" awwwww I could have eaten him all up!

Thats so sweet of your son.mine goes to extremes he can be super nice sometimes but its the bad habits that I am struggling with, I think its just me and being horman but he just annoys me most of the time .......Thank God he doesnt see this


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## helena

I think they all drive us up the wall a lot of the time Kim! Lol. Mine is such a sweetie but also very strong willed and very very active. Takes a lot patience which is so hard when pregnant... But he can turn on the charm when he wants that's for sure! X


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## nicole844

Midnight: CONGRATS on your little girl! How exciting!

& Welcome to our lovely new members!

Jade: I can't wait to hear you gender, congratulations either way!!

Dragonfly: SUCH sweet pictures of your sweet babies, how wonderful. 

and YAY for everyones positive news on scans and test results! Always great to hear. 

I love coming to check in and reading about all your lovely experiences. Unfortunately my schedule is PACKED, but this is always a nice break for me. I have been in and out of the hospital for fainting and low blood pressure- at least 2 appointments a week! :nope: Have to see a neurologist to make sure everything is okay. Had a conference over the weekend, but it was just more stress than anything. Hoping for a bright side soon!
I did get a little nervous reading through the posts- I have felt NO movement and am very petite (104 lbs pre pregnant). Does anyone know if this is normal? Helena, I know you said you didn't feel much either. Has that changed any?

Ladies lets see your BUMPS!! I hope all of you find your energy soon & I can't wait to hear more about genders. Thanks for you patience with my in and outs on the board- this gives me something to look forward to!


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## helena

Hi Nicole!


I am getting more worried by the day on this lack of baby movement, I just wish I had something I could definitely call baby. It's really starting to panic me, I think about it all day on and off. Have docs appointment in 10 days. Am wondering about trying to bring it forward...though maybe they will think I am worrying about nothing and being a bother. I am not a natural worrier so this is odd...hoping I am not worrying for a reason...
So no Nicole, it hasn't changed. I wake up and feel like there is literally nothing in there! My belly has grown and has a bump, but no movement. Nothing definite. I am not petite, but not huge, was about 66 or 67 kilos pre baby.

Until I feel baby or see heartbeat I don't feel it's real and I can't get excited too much..

Oh, on another note, I was driving along yesterday and saw a bare ish branch of a tree, the first I have seen where leaves are really falling this autumn. And I thought "wow! If all goes to plan, by the time that branch grows its new leaves we will all have little babies living with us!". Hopefully. Amazing!


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## Jo_Bean

Helena, try not to worry hun. I felt loads of tickles early on but nothing more and even the tickles are seeming to die down now. I did read through all my doctors notes etc and it said I had an anterior placenta which noone had told me or explained what that meant. Now I know, I think this is why I've not felt it properly yet. 

It's hard though as I feel a bit detached from bump because it could just be my imagination and not a baby. But I'm sure we will all be fine and all be feeling them very soon x

Just a bit more waiting! Like we haven't done enough of that for a lifetime!
:coffee:


Nice thought about the leaves :D I love autumn and was thinking similarly about seasons the other day whilst walking the dog. How lovely that by spring we'll all be taking our little babies out for walks in their pram or buggy :cloud9:


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## helena

Thanks Jo. My brain just goes into overdrive. Like how I have had more energy recently. And what if that's because my hormones have dropped? Or the fact I lay on the sofa on my back...what if that was bad for baby...wish my head would just shut up! You are right, more waiting. Must be patient, must be patient!... Xx


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## Jo_Bean

I've been the same. I've had more energy. But I have found that I get tired if I over do it, which I regularly do. But I have really perked up over the last couple of weeks. I haven't noticed a problem with laying on my back. I'm not 100% sure on what this does or when, I would say that now the baby isn't that big it can't really make too much difference. I know in 3rd tri it might do something to blood supply or nerves but surely now there is still a lot of room in there?

Always something to worry about though isn't there! By the time we stop worrying, baby will be here and we'll be worrying about it on the outside! I fear we are destined to worry forever! But I guess that is what will make us good mums :D


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## Midnight_Fairy

I dont have much baby movement at all hun, dont think have felt since yesterday but baby can still move in waters without us being able to feel it at this stage. Try not to worry xx remember when we are moving around, in car etc we will probably miss movements at this stage xxx


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## helena

Seems to be that from 20 weeks we should avoid laying on our backs and tummies Jo:https://pregnant.thebump.com/pregna...a/when-should-i-change-my-sleep-position.aspx


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## Midnight_Fairy

I always avoid laying on my back as feel dizzy. On side with pillow between knees feels best x


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## wamommy

Nicole, I hope they figure out your blood pressure and fainting spells! How scary! :hugs: I'll try to post a bump picture this week sometime, or maybe at 20 weeks? A halfway pic would be great!

Helena, I have felt little pops for a while now, but only once or twice a day. It was literally only in the last few days that movement became regular and stronger, so that I was absolutely POSITIVE it was baby. I thought for sure, being baby #3, that I would feel it sooner, but I distinctly remember feeling DD#2 at 16 weeks! I guess every pregnancy is different, or perhaps this baby is nice and mellow? I'm not sure, but I certainly hope you start feeling elbows and feet soon. Like Jo said, it could be an anterior placenta. 10 days is a long time to wait for a scan, but if you're really concerned can you call and see if they can move it up closer?

As for sleeping on your back, I've read that it's bad past 20 weeks, so I've been practicing side-sleeping. I almost always wake up on my back at some point, though. I just roll over and try again... lol. Hopefully I'll get the hang of it.


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## Jo_Bean

Interesting about the back thing! I don't sleep on my back anyway but I do recline on my sofa, I wonder if I need to stop doing that? :shrug:


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## helena

I dunno..I am assuming so if we arent meant to lay on our backs..I am going to try the sideways sofa slump during tonight's soaps!


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## nicole844

Jo: So true! I think becoming a Mother is also becoming a lifetime worrier- but so worth the trade. Glad to hear your energy is back!! After 3 months I bet it was surely missed. 

Midnight: Thank you for the reassurance! I agree, I'm sure I am missing some of it- just figured I would have at least ONE that I knew was baby!!

Helena: Glad to know I am not alone. I have an appt. next Thursday, so hopefully I will get some peace of mind a few days early for you as well. I will be thinking of you & let me know if you have any changes! :hugs:

Wamommy: What a great idea- we should all post a halfway picture!! I am mad at myself for not taking more pictures along the way. Thanks for more comfort on movement, I know you feel sooner with each little one, so maybe I am behind with it being my first. 

When are everyone's scans coming up?! :flower:

I am with you all- I cannot wait for it to be fall! The cool weather & less 
revealing clothing is much welcomed in my mind right now. I feel like being pregnant through fall and winter will just be cozy, lovely, and romantic. :cloud9:


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## Kellen

I am a compulsive back-sleeper and have invaded our bed with 4 additional pillows in an effort to stop this habit. I feel for my poor DH because he is a snuggler, but is finding it difficult since he has to fight with the pillows. My mom is awesome though and is getting me a pregnancy pillow for my birthday. So, we'll see how that turns out. She has a coupon she wants to use, but it isn't good until the 29th of this month.

My LO movements are becoming stronger every day. DH can feel "lump-like movements" as he describes them when LO is squirming around. Only a week to go until we find out what gender we are having.

I have kind of a funny story to tell about DH since I have the time and a captive audience... And I'm a bit bored at work...

On Saturday he calls me from work and asks if I want to go out dancing at a country club that night. 
My response: "People smoke in there. Are you serious?" 
His response: "Well, K (aka SIL) wants to know if I can go, but I don't want to leave you alone."
Me: "No, by all means go. I don't care if you go out dancing. I'll have a lovely night in. Take a bath, read a book and skip ahead on pre-recorded TV episodes that you haven't seen yet! Mwhahahaha!"
DH: "Is this a trap? One of those where the woman says: 'Go', but really means 'I will hate you forever'?"
Me: "No, honestly go. My only stipulation is that you are required to strip your nasty smoke filled clothing immediately as you step through the door. You will then put it in the washer. You will then shower before kissing me, hugging me or coming to bed. These are the rules."

Long story short, SIL got drunk and didn't want to leave until 3am. DH wanted to come home at midnight. He stripped and bathed per my requirements and then Febreezed himself down before climbing into bed. He was so sore the next morning he could barely lift his right arm. I laughed. He apparently wants to start doing ball room with me again instead of country-style swing dancing. And that is my long pointless story of the day.


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## nicole844

Hahah Kellen!! What a nice pregnant move of you :thumbup: I have totally been cheating on watching series also! Hey, we need some perks. The smell of smoke is literally a nightmare, I like your rules!
How lovely your hubby can feel LO moving. I can't wait for that. Apparently our babies are 6 inches from crown to rump now- how amazing!! Remember the grain of rice days?! Seems like yesterday- Magic


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## Kellen

Hey Nicole, I know that your LO will start letting you feel him or her pretty soon. I absolutely abhor the smell of cigarette smoke, which DH knows. However, we recently (18 months ago) moved from California where there is no smoking inside to Georgia where you can smoke inside bars. 

This is going to be a knock-down drag-out fight with my in-laws though. DH is literally the only person in his family who does not smoke (he is #4 of 6). They are also confused as to why I am requiring everyone who wants to see or hold the baby to get re-vaccinated for Whooping Cough. No offense, I love them, but they are not the most educated. My MIL comes for a visit in 2 weeks. I have begun my anti-smoking around my baby campaign and have printed lots of material.


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## Jo_Bean

The sideways sofa slump is a good move :thumbup: I am currently doing this and all is good, apart from the slight puns and needles in my left arm, might have to swap ends of the sofa :haha:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Think sofa is fine as long as not flat on back :)


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## helena

19 weeks my darling sweet potatoes!!!!!! Yaaaaa!


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## nicole844

Kellen: You will have to let me know what material you find! My SO still smokes and it is causing many fights between us. He has until New Years and then it is going to get real! Haha. Nobody that has smoked a cigarette that day is going to touch the baby- which will be a problem for my mother, who smokes often also. I am nervous about this. 
Where in GA are you?! That's where I am too :hugs: Maybe we will be in the same hospital on the same day!? 

Midnight: Your US looks just like mine!! My LO ALWAYS has that hand up in his face! 

Helena: Doctor bumped me up to today, I will let you know what they say about movement! 

Jo: I will need to try the couch method! Thankfully I am usually a side-sleeper, but I do lounge in bed on my back... for only one more week


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## Midnight_Fairy

hehe in one of the ones at a later scan she is doing the same :) xx


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## DragonflyWing

Hi everybody :) I'm back from my business trip. It went pretty well, although four flights in two days + uncomfortable hotel bed = ridiculously tired and grouchy pregnant lady. Got home last night and slept like a rock!

Yay for 19 weeks! It's also my birthday :D


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## Midnight_Fairy

Happy Birthday axxx


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## wamommy

Happy Birthday, DragonflyWing!! I'm glad you're back and can relax a bit :)

19 weeks, yay!!! I remember 6 weeks like it was yesterday :dohh: Let's hope the rest flies by so we can meet our little ones!


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## helena

Oh Nicole - lucky you getting an earlier appointment! Mine is next Friday. What did the doctor say? All good I hope?...xxx

HAPPY BIRTHDAY WISHES WHIZZING OVER FROM FRANCE TO YOU DRAGON!!! 

Hope the trip was a success, i remeber you were nervous of your presentation? X


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## Kellen

Happy Birthday Dragonflywing!

Nicole, I live near Atlanta. Where in Georgia are you? If you are in the Metro area what hospital are you thinking of using?


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## Jo_Bean

Happy 19weeks people!

Happy birthday dragon xx

Not long til the rest of the gender reveals!! :wohoo:


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## nicole844

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DRAGON FLY!!!! :hugs: I hope you LO's nudge you lots as birthday gifts!! 

Helena: All went well! they did not seem concerned at all. They said after 20 weeks is totally normal. The also said he was sitting very low still, the uterus had not moved up- he is just cozy where he is! So that could be why I am not feeling as much too. Apparently quite common for the uterus to remain low in the first pregnancy, so no worries!! 

Kellen: Me too! I am using Northside Hospital- They are wonderful for delivery. I was raised in Atlanta and almost everyone delivers there. They are also right across the street from Children's Healthcare of Atlanta at Scottish Rite- which is the best children's hospital in the South East- God forbid anything go wrong, it is a great place to have nearby!


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## helena

Oh. Am glad for you!!! Glad your little man is cosy and safe. What a monkey - worrying mummy so soon! 

..but this my third baby..roll on next Friday for my check up!


Thanks for letting me know xxxx


*edit two minutes later as I pulled myself into sitting upright on the sofa, so used my tummy muscles, POKE! about 5 cm to the left of my belly button. Maybe a cm below the belly button line...hope that's not too high. I swear it was baby. Shocked me so much I shouted out! Definate poke, no fluttering. Big poke.
Ooooooooooh i do hope it was baby!


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## Blue_bear

My placenta is anterioir this time Helena so was told i was feel much less until later on. Maybe yours is the same?


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## Midnight_Fairy

it is freezing today!!! xx


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## Jo_Bean

Blue_bear said:


> My placenta is anterioir this time Helena so was told i was feel much less until later on. Maybe yours is the same?

Me too, although this is my first, the scan notes say anterior and I've only had lots of tickles for ages now. I am really hoping I feel something properly soon as it would be nice to know he or she is ok in there.



Midnight_Fairy said:


> it is freezing today!!! xx

It is freezing! I am working from home, I think the heating might have to go on!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Yep, I had mine on when I got the kids up for school earlier else they wouldnt move! Definitely need to invest in some nice cosy pjs and jumpers I think x


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## Jo_Bean

I was looking at those onesies the other day. I think they look so cosy! Not sure if it's worth getting one now though. I really can't wait to get some lovely nice big long chunky knit jumpers to wear with my leggings and ugg boots this winter! I just want to be snuggly and comfy. I wish I had a log fire to light too! Maybe toast some marshmallows......:cloud9:


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## Kellen

nicole844 said:


> Kellen: Me too! I am using Northside Hospital- They are wonderful for delivery. I was raised in Atlanta and almost everyone delivers there. They are also right across the street from Children's Healthcare of Atlanta at Scottish Rite- which is the best children's hospital in the South East- God forbid anything go wrong, it is a great place to have nearby!

We are going to be at North Fulton Hospital doing a waterbirth. They have the lowest C-section rate around and that is one of the important things for me. My co-worker just had her little girl at North Fulton though. We are still looking for a decent pediatrician though. We're up in Cobb if you happen to know anyone good in that area. We just moved from Nor Cal a little over a year ago so we're still getting used to the area.


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## Midnight_Fairy

wow it sounds so different in america!

Log fire would be awesome, unfortunately we dont have one :( 

Bored today, just got back from annoying OH at work!


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## Jo_Bean

It's amazing how different it is and yet we all sort of know what each other is talking about :haha:

I don't have a log fire either :( Just a radiator, but it's not the same when the dog wants the door open all the time and I end up heating the garden :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Thank you for the birthday wishes! Yes, I had been worried about the presentation, but it went pretty well. Glad it's over! 

Both of my placentas are anterior, so even though I started feeling flutters REALLY early (11 weeks), they're getting stronger very slowly. I can't wait until I can feel them all the time! I didn't feel anything all day yesterday and I was getting worried, but then I when I got in bed to go to sleep, there they were! :)

It's really cold here, too! I think we'll have the fireplace on today...although it's not a "real" woodburning fireplace, it runs on gas. Still warm!


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## helena

We have a wood burning fire :) but it is downstairs which is unlivable at the moment, full of tools and plasterboard, so I too am dreaming of a cosy fire! So close yet so far... Is cold in the mornings then hot in the afternoon here. 8 degrees when I took my eldest to school, then 25 this afternoon. He wears shorts and a big thick fleece to school!?

Doctors office called today and wanted to move my appointment to next Tuesday morning, great! Should hopefully set my mind at rest a few days earlier :)

Friday night approaching, and nothing nice in for dinner...:( what's everyone else having? Need inspiration.


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## Kellen

Dragon, I'm glad to hear that your presentation went well. And that your little ones are letting you know that they are exercising.

Helena, no idea what we are having for dinner. It is our anniversary tonight and I have been forbidden to make plans. I had a nice romantic evening planned and DH told me that he had everything taken care of and that it will be a fantastic surprise. I'm excited, but a little scared too... He took the whole day off so that everything will be ready when I get off work early this afternoon.

It is finally beginning to cool down here. We have a lovely wood burning fireplace in the living room. Last year we moved in in December so we never had the chance to get wood and use it. We are planning to start stocking up over the next month or so to try to keep our gas bill down during the colder months. I think it will be nice to be able to be on the floor with the baby and a lovely fire.


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## helena

Ohh enjoy your surprise Kellen! How exciting!!!..I wonder what it will be!


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## Kellen

Thanks, Helena. I have absolutely no idea. I tried to pry for hints... So, my dear, what should I wear tonight? Answer: Oh, anything. I like you just the way you are. Should I wear sandals or closed-toed shoes? Answer: It doesn't really matter. Whatever makes you more comfortable.
He knows I am terrible at waiting for surprises. Sneaky man even deleted the browser history so I couldn't see what he had been searching for for the surprise. Tricky, tricky... All I know is that there is a surprise waiting between 1pm-7pm because after that we have concert tickets. lol


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## Jo_Bean

oooh how exciting Kellen! I'd be the same though. What are you going to wear?! I guess if you are going to a concert afterwards you would know what you should wear roughly. I'd be in a state not knowing whether to take jeans or a jumper or what!

Hope you have a fabulous time!

Helena - are you doing up a house over there then? Will you have this wonderful log fire at some point? And can we all come to stay!!??!
I'm making a mushroom soup, then we are having homemade pie and mash :thumbup: with purple carrots and french beans (veggies came in my veg box this week)


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## DragonflyWing

I'm going to try to get DH to go to a Chinese buffet tonight :) He felt like his birthday gift to me wasn't enough (he got me a magazine subscription lol- he tries), so I think I have some leverage ;)


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## helena

Oh Jo I want your pie! I opted for jacket potato with cheese and tomatoes and onion, but yours sounds better!! DH is off having a guitars lesson so it's jacket sud for 1 here with emmerdale (we have a UK satellite dish!)

Yes we are renovating our house. It was a weird design, the downstairs was only ever used for storage so didn't have windows or anything. the front door is upstairs, it's a bit odd. so sees one day the fire will be all mine!! Maybe next winter, mane this depending on how the work goes. Oh yes, you can all come over and we can do a spot of baby gazing by the fireplace :)


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## Jo_Bean

That sounds so romantic though, bing a house in France and doing it up :cloud9: and a uk satellite dish! Best of both worlds!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I hope your night goes well! How fun to have a surprise to look forward to!

Everyone has much more interesting dinner plans than I do, lol. I think tonight I might just heat up the left overs in the fridge. We have about 6 containers in there that I would hate to waste!

Helena, what a fun project! We have an amazing wood stove that we used to use in the winter to roast out our whole downstairs. Since having toddlers, though, I'm too scared they'll run over and touch it!! I'm thinking this winter we'll have to build an involved fence around it so we can use it without the worry.

I'm also glad we have some scans rolling in! SO jealous yours got moved up to Tuesday, Helena!! Mine isn't until a WEEK from Wednesday... sigh... forever away :dohh:

I'm off to go snack on something. I made spicy chicken soup for lunch (sounded SO good with the cold weather today) and it turned out horribly. Even my husband, who will eat absolutely anything, took a few bites and couldn't finish it. I promised to never make that recipe again!!

EDIT: We were STARVING by 5pm, and went to Chipotle for spicy chicken tacos :D I don't feel TOO guilty, since they don't use hormones in their meat or dairy. YUMM!!


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## nicole844

Helena: I came to tell you the same!! Definitely felt baby for the first time yesterday and today again. SO amazing! :cloud9: Amazing what a little bit of patience can do! So happy you got some reassurance too & how nice your appointment got moved up! YAY all around! And your placement sounds just right below the belly button- it should be right at the button at 20 weeks and mine is a little to the right hanging out! 

JoBean: That is all I have been talking about! I can't wait to be able to wear sweaters, leggings and boots all day. I dream about how comfortable I will be when fall arrives! And YUM to your pie!! 

Kellen: I should look into that! I REALLY do not want a c-section at all. I am very afraid of surgery so sounds like you have a great plan! And water birth, how incredible. What made you pick that?! There are a ton of great pediatricians in your area- I'm not sure of specifics, but I'm sure you will find a great one! You will have to keep us posted on your surprise, how sweet of hubby! I hope you are having a very relaxing evening. :flower:

Wamommy: I for one am jealous of your dinner!! I LOVE chipotle & would not feel guilty giving that to baby at all, they are surprising conscious of healthy ingredients like you said! YUM

DragonFly: Enjoy your buffet date, what better place is there for a pregnant woman?!

Midnight: It sure is different, especially here in the south! I think it was 82 degrees (F) today where I am! I am counting down the days until I can be cold! I am usually a summer girl, but baby makes me want to snuggle down and wear big comfy clothes

BlueBear: When did they tell you about your anterior? I wonder if we have the same, my doctor is not good about letting me know whats going on! Makes me crazy! 

Is anyone experiencing belly button pain!? Mine has been so sore, it is bizarre! I can see it stretching already, but it hurts to touch! The symptoms get crazier! Hope you all have a wonderful weekend


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## helena

On Tuesday it's a normal pregnancy check up then on October 5th its the big scan. Not sure he will tell me the sex this Tuesday, just do his usual urine and blood tests etc.


Yay for movements Nicole!! So happy for us! :)


But am annoyed this morning, my weird swollen red foot thing is back :( so it looks like I will be back off to the doctor this morning, demanding more antibiotics or whatever they decide this time. I have only been off them 5 days... I thought something was happening as yesterday I was so tired I fell asleep in front of the tv agan, and my headache started this morning...then looked down and there it was, a purple tinge and fattish toes...grrrr. Waiting to see an emergency doctor isn't my idea of a fun Saturday morning...but I don't want to wait and let it get worse considering the baby and all. What a pain..


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy - I had spicy chicken soup for lunch yesterday too but I much prefer the sound of tacos :thumbup:

Nicole - exactly! I just can't wait to feel comfy. We are popping into town today for each others anniversary presents and some other pressies I need to buy for people and it is freezing! So I am wearing my boots and a lovely snugly poncho :smug:
I've not had the belly button pain, but yesterday I kept having shooting pains in my lady bits. Like it was tap dancing on my cervix or something! Not the most comfortable feeling ever!

Helena - that's a nightmare about your foot! Did they ever say what it was? It's very bizarre how the same thing is coming back straight away :( poor thing :hugs: I hope you get it looked at more quickly this time!


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## helena

Hi. No the original doc said it as an infection, which was why the foot was big and purple. Today's seemed much better and addressed the cause of the infection which she said was a tiny white bit which she said was some sort of fungus. So I have creams. I don't think I should have ever been given the antibiotics, or at least I should have had the creams too. What a pallava. Maybe I picked something up in the garden n the summer, I tend to go barefoot a lot. No more!


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## helena

Oooh massive news. Sitting watching tv and DH put his hand on my tummy. He swears he flt about 6 kicks or movements all within about 30 seconds! Meanwhile i felt nothing really except a mild feeling of pressure like maybe something was in there rummaging about..
I am wondering if for some reason I am just not feeling baby...like maybe because of the previous 2 sections. After the ops i have always had some numb areas outside on my tummy so maybe it is the same inside?!
Ether way, DH swears it was happening, he even shouted out in excitement!!! :)


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## Jo_Bean

Great news about the foot and wonderful that DH felt baby! X


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## wamommy

Woohooo!!! Hurray for movement, Helena! That's amazing that DH could feel it! 
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with your foot again, but it sounds like this Dr may have found the root of it. I hope it stays away for good!

I made the massive mistake of weighing myself this morning and I've gained 3 pounds this WEEK!!! I'm telling myself it's water weight or something temporary, but 3 pounds in one week??? Ugh, hide the scale, I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.


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## helena

Wamommy - it's three pounds of juicy pink baby! Delicious :)
I know, I almost didn't believe DH when he said he could feel baby, but he is adamant and said it wasn't even a little movement it was really giving him a wallop!
Will ask doc on tuesday if it's possible my previous ops have desensitized me, or given e numb areas inside (as i have outside)which would account for the fact I have only felt 3 definite big pokes but no little movements, maybe only the big ones get through to my senses?!
Jo you have inspired me. Tonight it is pie for tea!! Yum yum yum. Bring on pie and x factor! :)


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## Jo_Bean

Enjoy your pie!!

We are having lasagne. I just finished making it (properly from scratch) popping that in the oven in a minute in time for xfactor. :thumbup: boot camp!


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## wamommy

You make lasagna from scratch? Ugh, I need to take a cooking class! LOL I can bake cakes/pies/cookies, but nothing healthy, unfortunately. I made the coolest cake for my Mom's birthday this afternoon. I'll take a pic and post it later. My 2 daughters picked their favorite colors for the cake, and it looks nuts.

I hope everyone has had a great weekend! Who has scans coming up this week?? I'm getting excited for everyone!


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## Jo_Bean

It's quite simple really, I do love to cook though. Mainly savoury stuff, my sister does lots of cakes and pastries, yummy!

Oh yes! Would love to see a pic of the cake!


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## DragonflyWing

I have the big 20 week anatomy scan this Wednesday! Very excited to see how they're growing :)

Sorry to hear your foot is acting up again, helena, but glad that they seen more on top of it this time! I hope this solves the problem for good. 

I did end up going to the buffet on Friday, and regretted it! I was so full that I almost had to tell DH to pull over on the way home so I could throw up. Luckily I made it and didn't get sick, but I was miserable for hours! I just can't seem to judge how much my stomach can hold anymore.


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## helena

I am with you on that dragonfly - I was so uncomfy after the worlds largest pie yesterday!!..seemed a great idea at the time...

I have a docs appointment on Tuesday but doubt he will scan much more than to check the heartbeat..I will still ask if he can take a quick look at which sex though!!...one more week until the big scan for me :) enjoy Wednesday Dragon!


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## helena

Happy today as I have a very wriggly baby since 6am! (from 7 would have been preferable but having hardly felt anything so far I am delighted even at 6am!).
It seems my super quiet baby has decided to make an appearance little by little over the weekend and today he or she is making itself felt much more. DH has felt baby on about 3 occasions now. What a difference a few days makes!!!


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## Kellen

Good Monday Everyone!

Helena - so glad that your baby finally decided to make an appearance.

Dragon - I too have my anatomy scan on Wednesday.

I think I am becoming paranoid at work. Last Thursday my boss pulled my cube-mate away into the back conference room to discuss some changes: "So you won't be blind sided."
Then on Friday I went to heat up my lunch and three of my co-workers were hovering around a door talking. As I walked past one said: "Oh, glad I said that before she was behind me."
Then today I found the evaluation forms for a big conference that I am semi-in charge of putting on. Instead of my information at the bottom they (being the attendees) are being asked to fax them to my boss.
Am I over thinking this? I haven't said anything to DH because I don't want him to worry. I know I haven't been as "on the ball" as normal, but I'm pregnant. I know I've made a couple of screw ups over the past couple weeks, but nothing major. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells and everyone else knows what is happening but me.


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## Jo_Bean

Oh no Kellen, can you maybe speak to your boss about it?


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## Kellen

I feel super awkward and I really don't want to burst into tears. I love my job, but I'm the newbie. I've only been here since April. He is really nice and I hate to disappoint people. I'll probably just keep my head down and do my work. If it is a disciplinary problem then I'll handle it.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen--I hope it's really nothing! I know how things like that can make us all so nervous! 

Helena---so awesome that baby is so wriggly! Yesterday I sat on the couch and baby was as wriggly as I've ever felt it! For a good 30 minutes all it did was move! :) It makes me so happy! But, DH still can't feel anything---even when I put his hand right on the spot baby is moving. I'm hoping he will feel it in a week or so. . .

Anyone else's DH feeling or not feeling baby?


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## Jo_Bean

oh bless you Kellen. Maybe it is best to keep your head down and get on with it. I'm sure you'll find out soon enough. They may just be making changes that don't affect you? :hugs:

Sierra - I've felt tickles, hubby hasn't felt it yet. He has been talking to it though and yesterday he was talking to it and the baby was wriggling around and tickling me like mad, until I couldn't bear it any more! It was like the two of them were ganging up on me!


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## SierraJourney

Jo_Bean said:


> oh bless you Kellen. Maybe it is best to keep your head down and get on with it. I'm sure you'll find out soon enough. They may just be making changes that don't affect you? :hugs:
> 
> Sierra - I've felt tickles, hubby hasn't felt it yet. He has been talking to it though and yesterday he was talking to it and the baby was wriggling around and tickling me like mad, until I couldn't bear it any more! It was like the two of them were ganging up on me!

That's so precious! My DH is a little shy when it comes to talking to the baby. .. I'm not sure how to bring that out of him. . .maybe we should start reading to the baby or something. . .


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## Kellen

Update: Apparently something that I thought I screwed up on was deemed: A fantastic job and perfect answer! I had gotten an email this weekend from a guy who is friends with my boss. He was being a bit of a smarty. It was about something that I had authorized and didn't (at the time) feel the need to notify anyone of (because it is my project). But he CC'd my boss so I was worried. Well, I sent a very professional sounding email back this morning, copying my boss. He just came in and told me I'm doing very well and to keep up the good work.

Sierra, Jo - Sorry to hear that you DH's haven't been able to feel little one yet. Mine definitely did this weekend. He was chasing it around my belly. You could actually see a little lump moving around. Wherever DH would put his had the baby would move away from... They kept this up for a good 5 minutes.

Every other night DH and I have been reading to our baby. DH wants to get a pair of headphones for the belly and make recordings so that the baby can hear him when he isn't around. One of his friend's read to their wife's pregnant belly and when the baby was born and heard Daddy's voice he actually turned towards him. This has motivated my DH to try to be super connected.

Nicole - I chose the waterbirth option because I have a very serious latex allergy and being in hospitals makes me nervous. I also hate taking any medication and want to do this as naturally as possible (ei I refuse to take anything for a migraine unless DH forces it upon me). Waterbirth can also help reduce the potential for tearing. Our midwife is the only one certified in the area and has a super low rate of needing intervention. And if anything goes wrong the hospital maternity ward is literally just around the corner.


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra - so was mine, but I keep on at him saying I want baby to recognise his voice when it comes out and want it to know him better than anyone else I talk to regularly. That spurred him on. He doesn't say much, just kind of talks rubbish really, but it's cute :D

Kellen - oh that's good! Do you think that maybe the people talking were jealous or something? Maybe you've been doing such a good job that they are a little put out? That is the better option and obviously not something to worry about!


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## Kellen

Jo_Bean said:


> Sierra - so was mine, but I keep on at him saying I want baby to recognise his voice when it comes out and want it to know him better than anyone else I talk to regularly. That spurred him on. He doesn't say much, just kind of talks rubbish really, but it's cute :D
> 
> Kellen - oh that's good! Do you think that maybe the people talking were jealous or something? Maybe you've been doing such a good job that they are a little put out? That is the better option and obviously not something to worry about!

Jo - I hope so. I think everyone is a little put out that I'm having a baby as well. Our other boss just went out on maternity leave and had a beautiful baby girl. I think it kinda rubs one gal (the one who made the nasty comment) that I've only been here for a few months and will still be able to take full leave with compensation. Or maybe I can be positive and imagine that they were planning a surprise shower for me...:haha:


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## Jo_Bean

Let's hope it's the shower! But we all know what women can be like! 

Oh well, it's not your problem if she's jealous. Sounds to me like you've earned whatever you've got fair and square!


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## DragonflyWing

DH hasn't been able to feel the babies move yet, even though I've been feeling them for over 2 months! It was mostly little flutters and pops up until last week when the movements started getting stronger and more frequent. On Saturday I was feeling them all day! Hopefully DH will be able to share in the fun soon :)

Glad it turned out to be something good at work, Kellen!


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## helena

Don't worry Kellen, they are either just horrid girls or pregnancy hormones gone mad. You will be on maternity leave in a few months anyway cxxx


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm SO glad baby has started making him/herself known! What a relief! 

Kellen, I'm glad your boss told you what a good job you're doing. Whatever the lady was gossiping about, at least your job isn't on the line! Hopefully it is a shower.

Well, I had a not so fun day yesterday. I had a really, really, scary episode. We stopped at the grocery store to get some cookies and a card to drop by for a friend's 91st birthday. As soon as we got in the car and I was writing the card I felt tightening in my chest, and my heart started to race. I started to freak out and told DH I was scared something was really wrong. We went straight to emergency, with our DDs in tow, and told them I was pregnant and afraid I was having a heart attack. They started monitoring me, and my heart rate was 207!!!!!! I could barely breathe or stand up. After some further tests they say I have Supraventricular tachycardia :( IT sounds way worse than it is, and they say it "shouldn't" be dangerous as long as the episodes are short. Yesterday's was about 2 hours like that. Apparently the medicine to treat it is dangerous to baby, so I just have to deal with it. They said if heart rate goes about 240 it becomes dangerous to the heart muscle.

Really?? I mean seriously, I can handle weight gain, acne, nausea, fatigue... Those all seem like "normal" yet uncomfortable things we all go through. I just don't get why my heart is freaking out. I've NEVER had a problem. My blood pressure is low. I'm a normal BMI. I just don't understand, and they can't tell me why it's happening.

Sorry, a bit of a rant. I'm having a hormonal "poor me" morning. I may spend the day curled up with my girls watching Disney today! :D


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## helena

Oh wamommy, how frightening! Is this a problem that affects just pregnant ladies or maybe you had it before?
2 hours! Must've been terrifying. And for yor girls too.
Anything you can do to void another episode?
Enjoy Disney, you deserve a sofa day for sure!


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## Kellen

Wamommy, that sounds horribly frightening. I am glad that you and your LO are okay. Hopefully it was just a one time thing and it won't happen again. I don't blame you for taking the day off and just relaxing with your kids. It seems like everyday is a poor me hormonal day for me... So go ahead and give yourself permission to relax and be self-indulgent.


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## wamommy

Thank you, Helena and Kellen.

Apparently it's not isolated to pregnant women, but can be aggravated by increased blood volume and hormones. They don't really know what brings it on, and can't tell me how to avoid another one...lol. They said 1 in 8000 women get it at some point in pregnancy, but most of those are in reaction to the drug they give to induce labor? I don't even drink caffeine, so they really couldn't figure me out. They actually gave me a test for "Street drugs," which was a little humiliating, before diagnosing me. :dohh:

Fingers crossed it doesn't happen again, but for now it's a great excuse to have a lazy lazy day! I hope everyone else it enjoying their day (and their little kicks!).


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## DragonflyWing

:hugs: wamommy, that's pretty scary. I'm glad the doctors told you it shouldn't be dangerous!


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## Jo_Bean

Oh no! I'm glad you went straight to hospital and got it diagnosed though :hugs: Disney should raise the heart rate, so go ahead and chill out xxx


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## Kellen

Gotta love the Pacific Northwest. That was one of the most interesting things moving from California to Georgia... the knowledge and acknowledgement of recreational and illegal drugs. Here (Georgia) if I refer to someone as a "tweeker" or "doper" I would need to give an explanation. Can't say I'm sorry to be a bit further removed from the drug culture given that my only experience came from the law enforcement side of the house.


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## helena

1 in 8000 chances of having that? Wow. Start playing the lottery, small odds mus be working for you. Rest up xx


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## SierraJourney

wamommy! How scary!! Definitely rest up!!


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## Midnight_Fairy

so glad you are ok and please make sure you rest xxx


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## helena

Check up this morning, all good, 2 kilos (4.4 lbs) gained this month. And doc says we are most likely team pink! 
But the big scan is still next Friday (5th) so we are going to wait until then before we tell people as " most likely" doesn't seem certain enough for me! But it seems probable as he said that and the woman at the 13 week scan guessed girl too. But time will tell..
Still, very happy, my 4 year old desperately wants a sister!


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## SierraJourney

Great news helena!! I'm so glad to hear that everything is going well! And team pink! YAY! :) I will find out our team a week from today!


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## Kellen

Congrats on your maybe team Pink, Helena. That sounds very exciting! I am very glad to hear that both you and your LO are thriving. I am anxiously awaiting tomorrow when we find out for sure. I love seeing what everyone else is having. If you are team pink our current gender ratio is 50/50... wonder which way I'll tip the scales?


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## SierraJourney

So. . .my life has gotten interesting lately. Long-story-short, our basement is out of commission due to mold growth that wasn't reported to us when we bought the house a year ago. Needless to say, we have an attorney involved and my DH is the only one that goes in the basement to do laundry. :( They said it's okay for us to live there, but advise I stay out of the basement. 

On top of that, my sister just sold their house and plan on building a new house. It takes a bit less than 4 months to build. They have tried to find a place to live in the meantime, but haven't been able to find somewhere to rent for 4 months. So, DH and I are faced with the decision on whether or not to let them live with us (the alternative is them having to pay a year's rent in a not-so-good apartment complex). They have a 3 year old daughter, and her DH works swing shift (so he'll be sleeping during the day sometimes). 

Now, our house has enough room for everyone. Their little girl can stay in a smaller room and the only other room my sister and her husband can stay is the room that will be the nursery. 

Part of me really wants to help them out (and I'm not sure they have a whole lot of other choices right now), but then part of me really wanted to cherish these last months with DH and I just a couple before our first child is born. I also wanted to have the nursery set up months in advance so everything is ready for baby to come, and also so I can go in there and dream of my baby. . . If they lived with us, we would be able to paint it while they lived in that room, but we couldn't move furniture or arrange the room until they moved out (about mid-January). They have to find somewhere to live in 3 weeks. 

I'm just so torn. Especially for my DH. It's not his sister, so it's a bit different. 

On the other hand, he loves our little neice and gets along with all of them perfectly fine. And they would be paying us rent---which would help us pay for the baby stuff we need---especially since money has been tight lately. 

I just don't know what to do---I mean, it's my sister. But, also, this is our first baby---and our last time as just a couple. And what if I go into labor early? They'd have to move out super quickly so we would have room for baby. . . 

Argh. . .I don't know what I'm looking for. . . I guess I just needed to vent. Thanks ladies!


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## helena

That's a tough one Sierra! I think I would offer them the place especially of the momey is helpful, but kind of put a clause in about having to be gone by the time baby is here...house builds etc often go over schedule.. And guess what you will be doing in 4 months time!...how's about 3 months with you and a month with someone else? Parents? Friends? Motel?...it's a tough one.
Try and to worry about the nursery, the bonus is baby can't see further than your face for a few weeks!...
Or how about they all share one room, even if it is a bit cramped, so you still have the nursery free? It is short germ after all so even if the space is a bit tight it shouldn't matter so much? So you all get what you want that way? 
If it will stress DH out though just explain to your sister you can't?..will she take offense?...Oooh good luck it's this one. Family can be great... I love mine...but. Wouldn't want to live with them!


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## Kellen

Sierra, that sounds like a really difficult dilemma to be in. I know I'd want to help my family, but I also know that some sort of homicide would most likely occur if any of my siblings or DH's siblings lived with us for any extended amount of time.
Like Helena said. Set down some house rules before the move in. Let them know that you are not built in babysitters and cannot take care of your niece unless you specifically request time with her. Also be aware of how difficult it is to adapt to someone with a nocturnal schedule. I worked nights for a year and understand how hard it is on everyone tip-toeing around me.
As for the nursery... use them as free labor! Have them help with the painting and decorating if you are feeling tired. Having additional funds is always nice. You could think about setting up a special savings account for the baby and tucking a portion of those funds away. DH and I have set up an account so that $10 from each paycheck goes towards future baby stuff. We'll use this for birthday presents, trips and eventually college. It is a small amount at first, but it certainly grows. Especially since we both get paid twice a month.


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so glad your scan went well!!! How exciting about potentially being team pink :D I can't wait to hear for sure.

Sierra, that sounds like a really really tough decision!! I don't know what I would do, but I'm sure if you and DH sit down and weigh the pros/cons you'll make the right choice. As for the mold, I would be so angry! It can be really tough to get rid of, and you should have been informed before buying the house!

Thank you all for your well-wishes, also. I feel great today, like nothing happened! :thumbup: Let's hope it was just a weird one-time thing. I DID have a great day of resting thanks to it though. My DH even did the dishes (I almost fainted in shock).


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## Jo_Bean

Helena, glad baby is looking good! that's looking like team pink if you have 2 opinions saying likely, lets hope the 3rd opinion is a solid one! 

Kellen, excited to find your team out tomorrow!! I'm Thursday :happydance:

Wamommy, so glad you are feeling a bit better, let's hope that doesn't happen again!

Sierra, I would say what others have already said I think. If it were my sister and I had the room, I think I would let them stay, set the rules from the beginning and save the extra cash. Everyone has a different approach but many people have their baby in with them for the first weeks or months, so the nursery (however much your plan and wish was to get it ready well in advance) could wait, it doesn't have to be an urgent requirement. Having said that, I too have a plan and would feel a bit on edge if my plan changed suddenly. Hope you find an answer that you are happy with. It could be a massive help having them there? But then it might not :(


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## SierraJourney

Thank you ladies so much! I really appreciate your thoughts and advise on this! Now. . .to talk to DH! ;)


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## wamommy

Kellen and Jo_Bean, I didn't realize you had scans this week!! Woohoo :D I can't wait to hear which team you're on, and how baby is doing.


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks! :yipee:

24 hours until we leave for the scan!! I'm very excited. Baby better not have it's legs crossed or mummy will not be very pleased!! :haha:


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## helena

Any decisions made sierra? Emotions high here. Firstly set off by DH liking a friends profile pic on FB - of her splayed out in a bikini. He says it was accidental, and I believe him, it is easily done on a touch screen ipod, but I got so upset. Then he admitted the for a second her was almost disappointed we may be team pink. I kind of know what he means, it scares me a bit since its a whole new world and I know how gorgeous baby boys are. The idea of venturing into the world of all things pink and sparkly doesnt always appeal, we are so used to tractors! But that said, it ks suer exciting and it will alance our family and be a brilliant new adventure. He says that feeling of almost disappontment was just a second and now he is still just as excited as always by that moment of doubt set my emotions off again...jeeze, I wish I could get a grip. Am not usually so needy, but cried at breakfast today about bikini lady and things not being as perfect as they were yesterday.. Even my 4 year old came and hugged me to say don't be sad mummy. 
I don't think i was all helped by the kids waking me about 4 or 5 times in the night!..

Must get a grip. This needy me that shows her face every now and then I don't like! A d DH probably wishes he hadn't even told me how he felt, but I love him for being honest, and I fully understand, I even feel the same, so why do I get my knickers in such a twist?! Pregnancy hormones are bonkers...


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## Jo_Bean

Aw babe. I would have felt the same. It's a bit embarrassing when it's someone you know, even though it probably was an accident. 

I guess with the emotions, I've had times like that where it probably wouldn't have mattered what hubby said, I would have felt a wobble anyway. The lack of sleep won't help. You are allowed to have a down day though, even if you feel that way for a second about baby, it doesn't matter because when she or he is here, they will be loved whatever. 

It's funny what goes through our minds and I think those of us that usually hold it all together and are quite chilled in life, generally are harder on ourselves if we have a wobble. 

I say, if you need a cry then cry and get hubby to give you a massive hug and tell you everything is going to be ok - just tell him that's what you want and I'm sure he will oblige :hugs:


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## helena

Thanks Jo. And I do really want team pink, guess am just a bit daunted..but I was hoping for pink.and I can't wait to get it confirmed and tell everyone! And DH felt pink. It's all crazy. Am baking a cake, that will help.
Thanks x


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## Jo_Bean

Cake sounds like a great plan xxxx


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## wamommy

Helena, I would have been a mess over bikini lady too. Pregnancy hormones can be so tough to handle! I agree with Jo, that you should tell hubby to give you some love and comforting, and support you through this emotional time!

As for team pink, I totally get it. I want this baby to be a boy so badly, but then I think about it and also feel daunted. I don't know what in the heck to do with a boy! I LOVE having girls, and am afraid I wouldn't bond as much with a boy. That said, everyone around me would be SO disappointed with another girl, that I'm feeling tremendous pressure to join team blue... ugh. Why does it have to even matter? But truth is, it DOES, and emotions surrounding gender are real and understandable. I just know you'll be such an amazing mom to either gender, and completely up to the challenge of tackling a new (pink!) horizon. For now, enjoy your cake!


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## helena

Thanks girls.

Hey Jo, just spotted your scan is tomorrow! You must be soooooo excited!!


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## Jo_Bean

Just out of interest, what flavour cake is it? I am really craving cake at the moment :haha:

Yes! :yipee: I am very excited! The scan is at 08:30 UK time :):) 1 more sleep! I feel like it's pink but then I'm not sure if I've gone team pink because I know that some of the family would love a boy and so I've leant towards pink because of that and the number of gender predictions I've done seem to point towards pink. In truth I think I literally have no idea! It's the first grandchild on both sides so I am lucky I don't feel too much pressure either way really, they are just all over the moon that they are getting a grandchild!


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## Kim2012

Hello ladies , it has been long, life has been hectic at the office and the second trimester 'blooming' hasnt kicked in as I am super tired.:cry:
Good to know evetyone is doing well and for those who are not doing so well, hope u get better soon!

Well the wait is over for me finally over for me.:cloud9: Just had the 20 week scan and all is well and the 'lil poser' as the lady who did the scan called her is really doing well. baby was moving all the time and we managed to get a wave and see he sucking her thumb. no anomalies detected:happydance::happydance:. and due date moved to 11th of feb.

Gender....mmmm it was a difficult one the first impression was 'looks like you are having a girl' and then the after a few checks 'oh hang on am not so sure now it may be a boy' and then she had to check the chambers of the babies heart bcoz she said she could only see 3 and they should be 4.Was instructed to go and empty my bladder and jump up and down for 2 minutes ....apparently that makes the baby change position! 

Came back and the baby was in a different position and all we could see were the shadows od the spinal cord.The lady was more interested in the 4th valve of the heart and silly me was more interested in the gender.In the end she said 'as I am not so sure now let me check for any 'boy bits' and in the end she said she didnt see any boy bits and said 'I hope I am not wrong but I think its a girl and that is what she typed on her records ..........................so yes Its team Pink!:cloud9::cloud9:


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## Jo_Bean

Congrats on Team :pink: Kim!


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## helena

Congrats kim! And did she find her last heart chamber?

oh Jo, make sure to come on and tell us ASAP tomorrow! I am voting team blue for you. 8.30 is a great time - no hanging about all day trying not to obsess! Mine is 9am next eek, am happy with that.

It was just a sponge cake, with a big fat layer of jam.
Half demolished by me and my boys now.

Oh just to add, going back to me ( how self obsessed!?) DH was super nice about it all this morning, was literally hi hugging one side and 4 year old on the other side. Love my boys. Pity they have a hormonal loon in the family right now! :)


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## Jo_Bean

I will do of course!

aw, that's sweet though Helena. They obviously know you very well and knew you just needed a hug :cloud9:

Yum to cake! I had 2 raisin swirl pastries this morning :blush:


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## Kellen

Good Morning Ladies!

I am at work, but not very functional. We have our scan at 1330 EST today so I've got 5.5 hours to go. I'll be leaving work in 4 due to the lovely traffic here in Atlanta.

I am really hoping for team pink. This will be my mom's first grandbaby, my dad's 7th and my in-law's 20-something-th (this is what happens when you marry a guy with 5 siblings that all started really young...).

Both my sisters and all my husband's siblings had boys first. I'd like to be different have a girl first. I am, however, beginning to become tired of his family asking me when we are going to have our second one. Could I please just have this baby first? As an only child I'm not opposed to stopping after just one. :)


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> Congrats kim! And did she find her last heart chamber?
> 
> oh Jo, make sure to come on and tell us ASAP tomorrow! I am voting team blue for you. 8.30 is a great time - no hanging about all day trying not to obsess! Mine is 9am next eek, am happy with that.
> 
> It was just a sponge cake, with a big fat layer of jam.
> Half demolished by me and my boys now.
> 
> Oh just to add, going back to me ( how self obsessed!?) DH was super nice about it all this morning, was literally hi hugging one side and 4 year old on the other side. Love my boys. Pity they have a hormonal loon in the family right now! :)

I think she finally did find the 4th valve Helena.......God knows pregnant hormones kicked in and i probably didnt hear the confirmation!!!!


Nice that your DH came round.


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## Kim2012

Kellen said:


> Good Morning Ladies!
> 
> I am at work, but not very functional. We have our scan at 1330 EST today so I've got 5.5 hours to go. I'll be leaving work in 4 due to the lovely traffic here in Atlanta.
> 
> I am really hoping for team pink. This will be my mom's first grandbaby, my dad's 7th and my in-law's 20-something-th (this is what happens when you marry a guy with 5 siblings that all started really young...).
> 
> Both my sisters and all my husband's siblings had boys first. I'd like to be different have a girl first. I am, however, beginning to become tired of his family asking me when we are going to have our second one. Could I please just have this baby first? As an only child I'm not opposed to stopping after just one. :)

All the best for your scan Kellen.....I know the feeling, I had to go to work before the scan and I think my productivity was actually negative!

Ha ha family should atleast let you get through and enjoy the first one before they start asking!!!


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## Kellen

Kim, thanks. Yep, DH is the last one to get hitched and have a baby. He took his time with it though. We are the first couple not to be pregnant A) before the wedding, B) during the wedding or C) immediately following the wedding. We waited two years because we wanted time for ourselves. Now we feel secure in our jobs, our marriage and life in general.

I think time is moving backwards today. I swear it was 8:40 a minute ago and now it is 8:35... When I'm excited I tend to zoom through my work and be more efficient. So efficient that I finished this weeks projects yesterday. I guess I could always head down to the basement and start on the give-aways for the conference next week...


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies!

Helena--I'm glad things are looking better, but I would have been soooo angry about the bikini lady---even if it's an accident! 

Congrats Kim! How exciting!!! 

Jo and Kellen---let us know as soon as you can!! I'm just overjoyed hearing everyone's genders! I've got 6 days to find out ours.

As for the sister-thing, DH and I had a long talk last night---and both of our hearts were telling us that even though it will be hard and uncomfortable, we want to help out my sister and her family. So we told her last night that they can live with us. She was SO relieved (she's been really stressed about it all). She said they are still going to look for other places to live, but it's great to know we'll be there for them if they can't find anything. I feel better about it, though DH and I both have apprehension about their 3 cats and a ferret moving in with us, too. We feel our cat might have a mini-heartattack over the competition she'll now face in the family since she wouldn't be queen of the house anymore. . . lol. . .but she'll have to get used to that with the baby anyways. :) I told my sister we'll discuss details later, but DH and I are going to ask them to be out by January 10th. That'll give us a month (hopefully) to get settled before the wee one makes an appearance. :)

So. . .feeling much better. DH tried so hard last night to feel lo, but still couldn't. It was kicking away in there, but DH couldn't feel it at all---he even put his head on my belly to see if he could hear it! Nothing yet. . . I hope soon. He so badly wants to feel what I feel. :)


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## Kellen

Sierra, I'm glad that you and your DH were able to come to a consensus regarding your sister and her family. I am sure that everything will be fine, especially since they are actively looking for another place to stay.
I feel sorry for your poor DH. Mine has only been able to feel the baby for about a week now... and then only sometimes.


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## Jo_Bean

oh Sierra, I'm so pleased you made a choice. It sounds as if, from her reaction, that it really is just piece of mind if they can't find anything else, so it is lovely that you can help out. Good that you set expectations from the beginning too :thumbup:
My hubby hasn't felt baby either. I'm sure it will happen soon enough and whilst led in bed they will get fed up with it kicking them in the back :haha:


Kellen - What time is your scan?


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## Kellen

1:30 Eastern Standard Time... so in 4 hours from right now. Give or take 10 minutes.


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## Jo_Bean

calculating ...........

that makes it 18:30 UK time :) ok cool! I will check back later when I am cooking our anniversary dinner tonight :thumbup:

good luck!!!


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## Kellen

Happy Anniversary, Jo! 

What are you going to be serving up?


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks! We've been together 15 years but it's our 3 year wedding anniversary :D

We will be having Rib-eye steak, dauphinoise potatoes, mushrooms, grilled tomatoes and peas :thumbup:


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## Kellen

Yum! Now I am getting hungry. :) Congrats on sticking it out together. That is quite admirable.

I killed an hour due to orders coming in. I supervised my supervisor supervising a man with a forklift take all my emergency kits out of the back of a truck. I then lead the office supply man to our supply closet which he kindly refilled. Then I walked down to the other building and turned in packing slips. Whereupon I was given two packs of self-adhesive foam boards for sign making! Now what do I do for 40 minutes? :haha:


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## Jo_Bean

:haha: oh bless you! I hope the next 40 minutes goes quickly!


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## Kellen

This article:

https://www.rantsfrommommyland.com/2012/09/oh-dear-god-i-think-im-pregnant.html

Helped to kill a little more time. This blog is one of my favorites and I cannot wait to have crazy kid stories to compare with some of the things these women go through. The above post made me laugh and then almost cry at the end. Just thought I'd share.


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## Jo_Bean

I'll check it out, I have 20 minutes left of my working day, so that will do nicely!

Up to now I've been looking at things I'm going to make when I know the sex. 

Starting with booties
https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/73CE9AF6-FB16-4BFF-ABBC-B9849B764C3A-5468-000006F7F6B1D4BA.jpg
or these
https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/FE7AD15C-06FC-4C3A-B574-D9DB86651680-5468-000006F7CE8FC6DB.jpg


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## Blue_bear

Im so impatient ive moved my scan forward from next week to....TOMORROW!!


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## Jo_Bean

Yes!!! Another one tomorrow! How exciting! Any idea what team you might be blue bear?


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## SierraJourney

Jo---those booties are SO cute!!!!!! I'm so jealous that you are that crafty!! 

Blue bear: That's awesome that you got it moved up! Let us know how it goes!


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## Jo_Bean

Well I do like my crochet, but we'll see how they turn out first :haha:


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## Blue_bear

Jo - im leaning towards pink but i thought i was 100% pink when i had ds so could be way off! Honeatly dont mind either way though!


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## Kellen

Officially team pink. Even though the little stinker had her legs crossed and hand in between until the tech had me roll onto my side.


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## SierraJourney

Congrats Kellen!! That's terrific!!!!!!!!


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## DragonflyWing

Congrats on team pink, Kellen! How exciting!

Anatomy scan went great this morning- got to see both hearts, brains, stomachs, kidneys, etc. They're measuring right on track at 11 oz each. They used a crappy ultrasound machine, so I really couldn't tell what we were looking at most of the time, but the u/s tech seemed to know what she was doing. Unfortunately, we couldn't get many good pictures. Didn't get any of little boy at all :( 

But here is one of little girl. :)
 



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## Jo_Bean

Congrats Kellen! The pinks are in the lead!!

Blue, what time is your scan tomorrow? I will check in to see results! Mine is 8:30am BST

Dragon, another lovely pic! I'm still amazed there is two in there!!


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## Kim2012

Kellen said:


> Officially team pink. Even though the little stinker had her legs crossed and hand in between until the tech had me roll onto my side.

Congrats on team Pink Kellen!!


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## Kim2012

Happy Anniversary, Jo! and those booties are beautiful. Lucky u, u can do things like those ,I did some for my nieces 10years ago and now I cant remember anything!


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## wamommy

OMG I didn't check BnB all day, and I missed SOOOO much!!!!

Kim and Kellen, welcome to team pink!!! The pinks are overtaking blues for now! I wonder if we'll have a rush of boys next week? (secretly hoping so :haha: ) I updated the first page with gender and your new due date, Kim.

DragonflyWing, I'm glad the babies look happy and healthy in there :) I think the shot you got of the girl is just beautiful.

Jo_Bean and Blue_bear, I can't wait to hear all about your scans!! I can't tell you how fun it is having all of us get scans back to back, and having people to share the news with who GET it. SO cool.

Helena, I'm so glad hubby has come around :) He sounds like a keeper. 

HAPPY 20 weeks, everyone!!! Half way there, phew! I think I'll have DH take a pic tonight (or maybe tomorrow morning, since I've been eating like a pig all day and look a bit...ummm... like I'm going to explode?).


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## nicole844

Helena: So glad the doctor was able to tell you the real problem with your foot! How it is doing now? Better I hope! And how exciting for hubby!!! I finally saw my SO for the first time in month this weekend and he still couldn't feel it :shrug: Of course baby was being shy in the 2 days we had together! Stubborn already lol. Hopefully next time! Great news everything looked good at your scan and how exciting for a possible TEAM PINK and little sister for your lovely daughter. :kiss: Very sweet- can't wait to get a confirmation. 

Kellen: I am so glad to hear everything worked out at your job! There's nothing worse than feeling like people are talking behind your back- glad that weight is off your shoulders!! & What a great idea to read to LO. My SO is also very shy about talking to my tummy, so we will have to try this. Very sweet. Your water birth sounds so exciting, I cannot wait to hear all about it. Anything that can decrease tearing is well welcome in my book :thumbup: I think it should be very calming and nice for baby- you sound very well looked after. Last but not least, CONGRATS ON TEAM PINK and your wonderful update- I am so happy for you! :hugs:

Sierra: No baby movement felt by my SO yet! I can't wait to share that with him, it will make it seem very real for the first time I think! Any updates on your end? What a relief that everything worked out with the house- I'm sure that decision was weighing heavy on you... as if you don't have enough to think about! :wacko: Only 4 more days until your big scan, so think happy thoughts until then- I'm sure baby will show itself to hubby in these coming days... a lot of excitement coming your way! :flower:

JoBean: Sounds like there are a few of us why shy babies- it makes me feel much better! And HAPPY ANNIVERSARY! I hope I am lucky enough to make it to 15 years, be pregnant, and still want to cook- you are a true super woman, hubby is one lucky guy! 

WaMommy: LOL! I feel your weight gain pain! I weighed myself today also... 20 POUNDS since the beginning. TWENTY!! I could not believe it- however, I was very small before this... that's what I keep telling myself! :rofl: I am also SOO sorry to hear about your health scare BUT SOOO glad to know everything is okay! I bet that was terrifying & of course just one thing on top of another. It is so stressful to not be able to take medicine for these things, but better in the long run. We do have to put up with so much physically, I know when LO is in my arms I will forget it even happened though :) 

DragonFly: What a lovely pic of your little girl!! And always great to hear positive scan updates about your little ones. I still can't imagine what it would feel like to have two inside- truly incredible. I bet they are giving you a lot of wiggles! 

Kim: I am with you on the lack of energy!! I feel MORE tired than the first trimester. But how exciting for you- TEAM PINK and a perfect scan! So happy they were able to find the 4th chamber and that everything went well. Congrats!! 

BlueBear: I hope your impatience brings us good news ASAP!! I can't wait to hear updates from you!!!! 

WHEW! I hope I got you all in there- we are some busy bees these days with so much good news pouring in! I have my anatomy scan tomorrow, but since I know gender I am just hoping for all good news!! (Who knows, with my luck- they will tell me LO changed teams or something wild like that!).
Also, we are officially 20 weeks.. you know what that means.... HALFWAY BUMP SHOTS! I want to see some bellies up in here- mostly out of curiosity to see if I am as big as I feel; I mentioned I have put on 20 lbs! Anyone else climbing up there rapidly with me? 
I will post new pics as they come tomorrow and can't wait to hear more great news as it comes! 
How great does it feel to have made it HALFWAY?!? Go us. :happydance:


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## helena

Glad to read of the successful scans yesterday!! And more team pink! Congratulations!!!
Ooh we can seriously start thinking names now!..

And 3 sans today? Good luck ladies! Can't wait to read all about them.i woke at 5am today and was thinking about you all and how excited you must be! Sill 1 week 1 day for me :(...still, least I get to share everyone else's excitement while I wait, it is such fun!! 1 hour fr you Jo, bet you are dancing about having breakfast!!

And today we are officially alf way to due date! Amazing! A melon! Tis journey is jogging so fast, seems only a day or two ago I was a plum!? Brilliant.
And considering some of us with be c sections (dragon? Me...) we are well over half way. Woooo-hooooo!
X


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## Jo_Bean

:wave: hi ladies!

So I'm currently still team :yellow: !! The little blighter had it's legs crossed and hands in the way the whole time, I had to go and empty my bladder and jump about and roll on my side and she wobbled my belly but nothing! Baby was so chilled out and comfy that it just wasn't turning over and uncrossing it's legs! It was led face down the whole time! We got a great look at it's spine and it's brain etc, but couldn't measure the legs and couldn't see it's bits!
I have to go back for another scan, so I'm waiting for them to book it in for me and send me a letter.

This is my yellow lazy monster, we only got one pic as she said she'll do them all properly when we go back next time.
https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/EDD6839A-9F1B-4824-8D8C-B7CDDD518A10-6088-000007F3267F419B.jpg


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## helena

Oh I rushed and got online as soon as I could!
Oh naughty baby...But clever baby - you get another scan! Yay.
How do you feel? Bit disappointed baby wouldn't play? it must be a girl - being shy and ladylike not flashing her undercarriage :)
Everything else that she could see all healthy?


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## Kellen

Hello All!

Glad to hear that everyone's LO is healthy. 

Jo- I'm with Helena is guess that you're team pink too. Our tech said that all the girls she gets are normally not quite as flashy as the boys. They don't enjoy showing off their parts in quite the same way.

Dragon- That is fantastic that both your little ones are fully put together and weigh 11oz. Mine weighs that too. I feel heavy and uncouth... I can't imagine having that times two!

Kim- welcome to pink with me!

Nicole- I cannot wait to find out what you'll be having.

DH is a bit disappoint that it is a girl. He suspected that it was all along, but really wanted a son. He is the first one of his family to have a girl first. My MIL is really excited because she has 2 granddaughters out of 17 grand kids. I'm excited because my side of the family has really strong maternal ties and I cannot wait to share that experience with my daughter. I believe DH is having problems because he was a bit wild with the girls when he was a teenager.


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## DragonflyWing

Oh, sneaky baby, Jo! He/she wants to keep you in suspense ;). Happy anniversary!

Nicole- yea they wiggle around a bit, but I don't feel as much as I'd like because both placentas are anterior. Hopefully as the babies get stronger, I will feel more :)

Kellen- Haha, yea I have a bit of the "pregnancy waddle" going on already! You wouldn't think 22 oz would feel that heavy, but it sure does when it's all concentrated in a little ball right in the middle of your body!


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## Jo_Bean

hee hee! thanks girls! I was very disappointed this morning I won't lie. I think she could see in my face that I was! We did discuss that if she was a girl at least she will be nice and lady like and demure :D either that or it's a boy who can't stop fiddling! (as one of my friends said!)

Everything else was great, fabulous spine, kidneys, arms, brain, nose, lips and chin! She wants us to go back for proper measurements of the legs and the heart, which is why we get the 2nd scan, so I'm quite proud of my bubba for wanting us to see him or her again - obviously it's going to be a cunning little child! Also I'm liking the prospect of having a chilled out baby, it seems as if he or she is lazy in the mornings and most active in the afternoons! 
I'll be sure to take some fizzy drink and chocolate with me next time, to give it a nudge about!

Thanks for the anniversary wishes girls :hugs:


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## Blue_bear

Mine was being a bugger too Jo! Couldnt get correct sight of the heart valves etc but got there in the end. Also we are Team.....PINK!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Happy 20 weeks :D

I am definitely team pink :D


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## SierraJourney

nicole--DH still has felt baby yet. Someday soon. . .. :)

Jo--that's hilarious! what a little stinker you are growing in there! :) So precious!! I can't wait to find out for sure what you are having!!


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## Jo_Bean

Blue_bear said:


> Mine was being a bugger too Jo! Couldnt get correct sight of the heart valves etc but got there in the end. Also we are Team.....PINK!

Congrats Blue Bear! Another team :pink:!! SO that's one of each for you then! :happydance: Was everything in the right place?



Midnight_Fairy said:


> Happy 20 weeks :D
> 
> I am definitely team pink :D

The pink are winning for sure! Was everything else ok Em?



SierraJourney said:


> nicole--DH still has felt baby yet. Someday soon. . .. :)
> 
> Jo--that's hilarious! what a little stinker you are growing in there! :) So precious!! I can't wait to find out for sure what you are having!!

My DH hasn't either, the sonographer confirmed today that my placenta was anterior and that is why we've not felt many big moves but assured us that we will be feeling it in the near future now that baby is getting bigger.

Tell me about it! I can't wait to know either! 2 more weeks for me now :dohh: You'll all know by then! I still can't make my little booties! I went into the wool shop at lunch to get some wool to make my friend something, her baby is due in November, so that will keep me busy for the next 2 weeks.

*Update*: my scan is now on 12th October, so 2 weeks to wait. I've also booked in a 3D scan for 26th November when I should be 28/29 weeks. So I can't wait to see what the little nudger's face will look like!!!


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## SierraJourney

Congrats Midnight and Blue Bear!! YAY little girls!!


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## nicole844

JoBean: YAYY for a lovely scan & great news all around on development!! I was cracking up reading about your little monkey being so shy- he/she wants to keep you surprised for a little bit longer! I do secretly miss the days where I didn't know gender, so try to enjoy having SUCH a big joy still to come. I vote girl either way ;)

Kellen: I am so sure your DH will absolutely melt when he sees his baby girl for the first time, especially after your magical water birth. And LOL at your theory about his wild days! I have heard plenty of times men thought they wanted a boy & end up with the sweetest daddy's girls that they can't get enough of. I am officially TEAM BLUE & know I am scared to raise the opposite sex- but couldn't be happier. It will happen for him too! :hugs:

DragonFly: I can imagine you have a little waddle with your two baby ducks inside! How precious. How are you feeling with double the love inside? It's like you have all the secrets of what is to come! 

BlueBear: CONGRATS ON TEAM PINK!!! And a healthy LO of course! How wonderful, one of each! 

Midnight: Yay for your confirmed little girl! I was happy to know my gender didn't switch on me- that would have really thrown me off!! haha

Sierra: I'm sure he will soon! When is your scan coming up? Next week? 

-I had my 20 weeks today as well- Little boy was looking wonderful and sucking away at that thumb, hamming it up! Weighs in at 12 ounces with a perfect heart, spine, and no cleft palate! Almost to a pound- incredible!! 
I can't believe I am the only one not having at least one girl (dragonfly gets both!). Bring TEAM BLUE on! :blue::pink::yellow:


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## Kellen

Congrats on two more girls! We pink teamers are certainly out numbering the poor blues. :rofl:

Jo, at least you have something to keep you occupied. I wish I were crafty, but stick people tend to run in fear of me. I once crocheted... and pretended it was a scarf and gave it to my grandma. DH wants to schedule a 3D/4D scan for sometime in November as well... so we can give out pictures as Christmas presents. Too bad on the newest TTW!

Has anyone gotten serious about names yet? DH and I know we have WAY different opinions on names. So we are each creating a list and coming together over the weekend to at least compare notes... This could get ugly.


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## Kellen

Congrats on Team :blue:, Nicole. At least you're trying to even the odds. lol I was almost expecting to be blue myself based on the stats of this thread...


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## SierraJourney

Congrats nicole! My scan is on Tuesday!! I can't wait!! :)


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## nicole844

Thank You ladies!! Sounds like me & dragonfly's little men have quite the future dating pool developing :rofl:

Kellen: We are stumped on boy names, but if it were to be a girl I loved Layla! I can only imagine my SO trying to pick girl names :dohh: I'll keep fingers crossed for you- don't forget to pull the "I have to push this baby out of my hoo-haa, I get to name her" card anytime you please!

Sierra: I can not wait for you either!! Do you have any gender preference or hint at which it could be?!


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## SierraJourney

nicole844 said:


> Thank You ladies!! Sounds like me & dragonfly's little men have quite the future dating pool developing :rofl:
> 
> Kellen: We are stumped on boy names, but if it were to be a girl I loved Layla! I can only imagine my SO trying to pick girl names :dohh: I'll keep fingers crossed for you- don't forget to pull the "I have to push this baby out of my hoo-haa, I get to name her" card anytime you please!
> 
> Sierra: I can not wait for you either!! Do you have any gender preference or hint at which it could be?!

Of course I want either gender. . . and I really have pros and cons to both. I want a baby girl because I've always dreamed of raising a girl and love little girls, but then again I come from a family of 3 sisters, who both have daughters, so it'd be really exciting to have the first boy! DH really wants a son, but would be just as pleased with a girl. DH thinks it's a girl, and I have hunches that it's a boy. :haha: I'm not really sure why I think it's a boy. . .I just have a feeling. We'll see who is right on Tuesday! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Nicole- I feel pretty good! My only complaints are that it's a little uncomfortable to sleep as the belly gets bigger, also more difficult to stand/walk for long periods (I have meralgia paresthetica- babies are pressing a nerve that makes my thigh go numb! Not dangerous, just annoying). I'd rather do the second trimester 3 times rather than go back to the first!

We have little girl's first name picked out, but we're having trouble with her middle name and little boy's name. We can't agree on anything!


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## helena

So many team pink! Congrats ladies!!!
Kellen - I thik it s the daunting side of having a daughter and future boyfriends etc that kind of worries my DH deep down too... Must've be tough knowing how t all works from sided the male brain!....


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## wamommy

Blue_Bear, congrats on team PINK!! Oh my goodness, there are a lot of girls on this thread! 

Jo_Bean, URGH that baby wouldn't cooperate, but YAY that he/she is healthy! 

Midnight, hurray for another girl! I'm glad they were able to tell you for sure!

I've been trying to keep the first page updated as the scans roll in, but let me know if I forget anyone! I listed you as :yellow: on the first page, Jo, FOR NOW... I'll update it on the 22nd :D 

I agree with Nicole about posting 20 week pics! I'll take some this morning and post them if I get up the nerve. I'm feeling quite a mess today, but if anyone would appreciate/understand, it's you ladies!


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## Blue_bear

So got in really badly fitting pj's so will take pics tomorrow :)

Were doing ok for names as had a girls name picked out for last time...still time to change my mind i guess! 
We found boys names really tough but shortlisted three and choose Joshua when we met him :)


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## Kellen

DH keeps mentioning that he wants to take a "middle of the long-road" picture, but whenever we have the camera around neither of us remember. I suppose I could play around with the new camera I just got at work... all in the name of knowing how to take pictures for the conference next week!


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## Kellen

I got bored... so I thought I'd give you guys some visual entertainment.

The first picture is of our little girl's profile. It is quite obvious that she has my nose. Which I told my husband, upon meeting him 4 years ago, that if he ever wanted to have children with me he must like my nose as it will be duplicated on any and all of my offspring :haha: It is a very strong genetic trait.

The second two pictures are off my blossoming bump. I decided to play around with my new work camera for your benefit. I'll have DH take some bare-belly pics tonight!
 



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## helena

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_5DA26665.jpg

Sorry, can't seem to turn it round!...


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## wamommy

Kellen and Helena, you have inspired me! You look GREAT! I had DH take some pics just now. I think I'll be huge by the end!
 



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## helena

Oh you look great wamommy! Not much between us!


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## Kellen

I feel like I should redo my pictures so that my hands are also supporting my back. You two look fantastic!


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## Jo_Bean

Lovely bumps ladies!


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## Kim2012

Congrats Midnight and Blue Bear for peam pinks, it must be the year for girls! and Nicole on Blue ...trying to keep the scales a lil bit balanced!! Jo atleast you get to get another view of the lil one and the gender ....only at a later stage than you thought.Good thing baby is healthy! Saying that though not to scare anybody or put us all in disbelief and wonder the accuracy of the scans one of the ladies in my office conceived through IVF.20 week scan she was told its a girl then she had a private gender scan at 26 weeks which confirmed a girl.And because it was IVF she got an additional scan at 34 weeks or so and said to the sonographer i know i am having a girl can you just check for me .Sonographer checked and said I cant dispute the other 2 scans but i hope whatever you have bought you have kept your receipts.She delivered a healthy baby BOY this morning. she had splashed on pink and unfortunately she had removed the tags and washed the clothes .mmmmmmmmm

Bump pick attached not so clear as i took it myself bcoz DH is still shy to even take fotos
 



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## Kellen

Cute bump Kim, and an adorable baby.

I'm not a huge fan of pink to begin with so we've asked people to buy sensibly and don't worry about gender. We have two huge bags of 0-18 mo clothes coming from a friend who saved all her of baby clothes. These clothes barely look worn so I'm not going to be spending much - if at all - on baby clothes.

On another note my MIL was supposed to be coming for a visit a week from today... this would be the evening I get back from a 3 day conference that I'm in charge of planning and implementing. I love her dearly, but I was not looking forward to the house-cleaning blitz that was going to need to take place this weekend and then try to convince DH to keep it clean and clutter free while I was gone.
Thankfully she has decided that she can't come. Unfortunately this is due to my SIL having broken her neck a month ago. So now my poor MIL has my SIL, her three kids and 2 other grandkids living with her... in a 3 bedroom house with 1 bathroom. Just a note they are crazy if they don't think we are getting a hotel for Christmas.


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## SierraJourney

Great bumps ladies! It looks like we're all about the same size! Here's my photo---forgive the not-so-good shot. . . I am at work and had to snap a photo quick before anyone saw me and wondered what the heck I was doing! :haha:



Anyone else not dtd as much as you used to? I just read something that said my libido should be pretty high at 20 weeks.. . but I just am SO tired after work that I don't want to do anything (still!). I've mentioned it to DH several times, but it seems like when he is ready to do it, I'm about half asleep. . .so we just haven't lately. . . I feel really bad about it. :(
 



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## helena

We havent dtd as much either, my energy is ok in the day while he is a work but by evening I am also not in the mood. Ah well...he doesn't seem to mind, he is usually tired after work too...I guess this is how things will be when we have 3 kids too! Lol x


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## Kellen

We haven't been either, and I feel bad about it. I did surprise him yesterday morning since the baby woke me up kicking before the alarm went off. But at night I'm in bed by 9 and he doesn't come until 11. He tried waking me up once... it did not end well for him. I feel horrible because all of his friends were telling him stories about their wives' second trimester and how they all turned into sex fiends day and night. Not me. :(


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## DragonflyWing

We haven't been dtd much at all...I think we did about 5 times very early in the first trimester (before the nausea kicked in), and twice in the second trimester so far. I just never seem to be in the mood. Either I'm tired, or nauseous (seems to be making a reappearance!), or just plain uncomfortable...sex never seems appealing to me.


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## wamommy

I'm glad it's not just me! I have VERY little interest in dtd, and luckily my DH doesn't even bring it up any more. Poor guy :haha:

Cute bumps!! It's so fun to see everyone grow! It's chilly here today with a bit of rain, and I'm wearing a warm, comfy big sweater for the first time. It feels GREAT. I see why people look forward to being pregnant in the winter. My last daughter was born in October, and being super pregnant in the summer isn't a ton of fun. There's nothing better than a warm sweater, a cup of decaf, and a little wiggler bouncing around in my tummy! Today is a good day :D


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## SierraJourney

I'm glad I'm not alone!! I feel a little less guilty knowing other pregnant women's DH's aren't getting any either! lol. I'm going to try to be a bit more assertive when I have energy. . . but that's very hard to do! ha!


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## helena

My nausea popped back a bit today too! Made internal organs are getting a bit squished in there?!

Treated myself to a trip to the hairdressers today - cut and color. I felt a right mess, tired, pregnant and hair bleched a horrid colour after the summer. Only after I had it dne did I start to feel a bit conerned about the color...I did tell them I was pregnant so she used something which she said was natural..but it didn't smell natural...still, should be ok in second tri I hope?!!!!...little monkey in my tummy has been quiet this afternoon, but then again I am still not getting lots of kicks...will eat chocolate tonight and poke around a bit (not that I want the chocolate you understand..it's just to get the baby wriggling to settle my mind you know...not that I looooooove chocolate!.....:blush:)

DH out this evening so it's me, the tv and a pizza. And my medicinal Chocolate..


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## SierraJourney

Oooo Chocolate sounds great!!! :( Unfortunately I'm trying to eat fewer sweets since the doctor told me not to eat as many since I gained so much weight in one week. :( I'll weigh in again on Tuesday--so hopefully I didn't gain another 8! And I'm a relatively small person and look small still (besides the bump :haha: ) . 

Anyone else have sweaty/smelly boobs? Sorry. . that's a weird question :haha: It's just that my boobs must be sweating or something because they are smelling a bit. . . not horribly (DH says I'm the only one who notices because he can't even smell it). . .but it BUGS me! I'm wondering if maybe it's my milk coming in and smelling or something? Anyone else? Or am I alone? lol


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## Kim2012

SierraJourney said:


> Great bumps ladies! It looks like we're all about the same size! Here's my photo---forgive the not-so-good shot. . . I am at work and had to snap a photo quick before anyone saw me and wondered what the heck I was doing! :haha:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else not dtd as much as you used to? I just read something that said my libido should be pretty high at 20 weeks.. . but I just am SO tired after work that I don't want to do anything (still!). I've mentioned it to DH several times, but it seems like when he is ready to do it, I'm about half asleep. . .so we just haven't lately. . . I feel really bad about it. :(


Lovely bump in pink Sierra! thank God no body saw you ...lol


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## SierraJourney

Kim2012 said:


> SierraJourney said:
> 
> 
> Great bumps ladies! It looks like we're all about the same size! Here's my photo---forgive the not-so-good shot. . . I am at work and had to snap a photo quick before anyone saw me and wondered what the heck I was doing! :haha:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else not dtd as much as you used to? I just read something that said my libido should be pretty high at 20 weeks.. . but I just am SO tired after work that I don't want to do anything (still!). I've mentioned it to DH several times, but it seems like when he is ready to do it, I'm about half asleep. . .so we just haven't lately. . . I feel really bad about it. :(
> 
> 
> Lovely bump in pink Sierra! thank God no body saw you ...lolClick to expand...

Thanks Kim! One guy started walking by my office. . .but I pretended to shuffle papers. . . lol. :dohh:


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## Kim2012

I do think about dtd especially when i feel guilty that DH isnt getting any.but thats where it ends in my mind no energy and no interest, by bed time in my mind I will be like 'hope he doesnt touch me for I need my sleep'.DH seems not to mind he settles for a cuddle and tries his luck on the days that I would not have complained about nausea, tiredness and backache!! unfortunately that may be a day or 2 in the whole month!


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## Kellen

Sierra, I don't so much as have smelly/sweaty boobs as I do leg joints and butt. lol... probably TMI. DH is all: "Did you pee?" Nope, just sweat... lovely thing about pregnancy that no one informed me of.

I have never been a big fan of chocolate and this pregnancy has simply multiplied my love of salt and all things spicy! Poor DH was complaining the other day that when I went grocery shopping I picked up all healthy food and nothing sweet for him. I gave him grapes instead...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> Sierra, I don't so much as have smelly/sweaty boobs as I do leg joints and butt. lol... probably TMI. DH is all: "Did you pee?" Nope, just sweat... lovely thing about pregnancy that no one informed me of.
> 
> I have never been a big fan of chocolate and this pregnancy has simply multiplied my love of salt and all things spicy! Poor DH was complaining the other day that when I went grocery shopping I picked up all healthy food and nothing sweet for him. I gave him grapes instead...

Okay. . .well that makes me feel a little better! lol

Poor DH. . . you're just helping him not gain the pregnancy weight with you. ;)


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## sleeping bubs

hey all sorry haven't been on for a while now got computer up and running couldn't get site to work on my phone!! Well I had my scan yesterday all is well with baby but kept moving loads lol so they think baby is a girl.. Got another scan at 28weeks so will check again there too

Hope all are well


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## helena

SierraJourney said:


> Kellen said:
> 
> 
> Sierra, I don't so much as have smelly/sweaty boobs as I do leg joints and butt. lol... probably TMI. DH is all: "Did you pee?" Nope, just sweat... lovely thing about pregnancy that no one informed me of.
> 
> I have never been a big fan of chocolate and this pregnancy has simply multiplied my love of salt and all things spicy! Poor DH was complaining the other day that when I went grocery shopping I picked up all healthy food and nothing sweet for him. I gave him grapes instead...
> 
> Okay. . .well that makes me feel a little better! lol
> 
> Poor DH. . . you're just helping him not gain the pregnancy weight with you. ;)Click to expand...

My brother said he gained 1 stone with each of "his" pregnancies. Unfortunately he has 4 children!!!lol
Hi sleeping bubs! Glad all is well with baby!


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## wamommy

Good to see you back, sleeping bubs :D I'm so glad baby is doing well, and I'll update first page.

My DH is dieting during this pregnancy, which stinks! Every time I go to get an unhealthy splurge for a snack I feel DOUBLY guilty because he can't have any. He gained about 30 pounds total with my first 2 babies, so he's really trying not to pack on the pregnancy weight with me this time :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

The babies' movements seem to be getting stronger. I'm not getting a lot of kicks, but I do get little hard lumps poking out that I can feel. However, I can't catch them moving with my hand! I feel the little head/butt/foot/whatever poking out, and no matter how long I hold my hand there, it doesn't move. Then I take my hand away for 30 seconds, and when I check again, the little lump is gone! Sneaky babies.

Here's my 20 week belly shot:
 



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## Kellen

Hi Sleeping Bubs! Glad that your tech issues have somewhat been resolved. Very happy to hear that you have a wonderfully healthy little one. 

Dragon - that is an awesome belly shot. Sneaky little ones indeed...

Last night was the first time my DH could consistently feel the baby moving. Before that the baby would move and then stop whenever a hand was placed upon the belly. She was going to town last night after I ate a bowl of cereal. Then we went to bed, watched a TV episode and turned off the lights. Immediately as I was trying to go to sleep she started kicking! So DH grabbed one of the books we're reading to her and read to my belly while rubbing it. By the time the book was over she was calm and no longer bruising my bladder. Someone's a daddy's girl already.

We also spent 2 hours at Babies R Us yesterday and set up our registry. It was fun. They gave DH a scanner and he just went to town. He also managed to sneak in an XBox 360 and some games that are for "when I'm up at night with the baby..." Uh-huh... I'll believe that when...

Also heard on the news this morning that there could be a shortage of disposable diapers. A plant in Japan that makes 5% of the world's absorbent plastic that is typically used in diapers had a huge explosion. We had already decided to go cloth, but I thought you all might be interested to know that the price of diapers is set to sky-rocket pretty soon.


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## SierraJourney

Love the shot Dragon! Cute bump!! 

Well I have the most exciting news! DH finally felt baby move on Friday!!!!!!! :happydance: It was magical!! Then on Saturday, my mum and little sister felt it move too!! :happydance: And it's been moving SO much! Cute little lo! :) I'm in love. . . . :)


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that's hilarious about the XBox! I can totally see my DH doing that at Babies R Us when we go! haha

And BAD NEWS on the diapers! :( They're already so expensive and DH refuses to go cloth! (He can't stand the thought of washing them, and I refuse to do it all myself. . .lol) Argh I hope it's not too bad of a price jump. . . :(


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing, your bump is beautiful! It was such a good idea taking pics wearing the same shirt each time. You can really tell how much those babies have grown! So awesome :)

Kellen, LOL about the XBOX. To be honest, I never played video games until I had DD#2. With an 18-month-old and a newborn during the winter months, there wasn't much else to do! I don't watch a lot of tv, and DH suggesting trying a game instead. I could hold my LO and play a game (yes, in the middle of the night!!) to keep me awake and entertained until she went back to bed. So, it's not all that frivolous! :winkwink:

Congrats on your DH feeling the baby move, Sierra! That's so cool :D My kids have started randomly running up to me, pressing their faces to my belly and yelling, "wake up, baby!! Wake up in there!!" To try to feel it move. It doesn't work. Baby hides in fear, lol. I think he/she is going to be born with a complex.

How was everyone's weekend?


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## helena

Hi all,

Great your husband felt baby Sierra!
My lo has been doing some odd things lately. Last night I woke at 4am with a hard pain on my left but could feel by kicking on the right. Tonight I have been having some very uncomfortable horrid scratchy feelings down below, like right in the unmentionables..so horrid! I think baby is really spreading out and exploring the surroundings in there! 4 more sleeps till my big scan :)


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## Kellen

Wamommy: I'm normally a computer gamer, but it is difficult enough to hold a kitten while trying to control the mouse and buttons so DH is trying to convince me that I should try console gaming. lol... I'll let him know that it is a tool that has been proven effective. That should please him.

Helena: So exciting about the upcoming scan. Bad baby waking mommy up at night. But at least you can feel your LO moving around now.

I experimented on my LO today. I turned on some music at work and plugged in my headphones and placed them on my belly. My LO started jamming out to some classical tunes, but didn't seem too impressed by mom's collection of Broadway showtunes. :(


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## sleeping bubs

Omg so much to catch up on can't remember everything

I heard about that factory in Japan luckily we already use cloth for 3yr old and have already got stash for baby so no need to buy disposables.

Kellen that's the sort of thing my oh would do (add an x-box!) 

Wow all these babies moving loads my lo is moving loads great that I can now see the movements my poor oh hasn't felt baby yet :( 

Everyones bump pics are great I haven't done one yet I will prob do one tomorrow

We told Mckenzie yesterday about baby as we moved his giraffe unit out of his room and put in the nursery and brought him new funiture now he telling everyone that it is the babies now but he doesn't believe baby is in my tummy bless


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## SierraJourney

So today is my scan!! Hooray!! I have less than 2 hours before it begins! :) So excited!!! 

On another note, last night, for about 2 hours, I had the worst cramps I've felt in a long time! I was doubled over in pain and had to breathe through them! I googled it and it says that cramping is normal around the 20 week mark because your uterus is moving to the middle of your belly---but boy was it painful! I'm mildly crampy this morning, but baby is kicking away in there. I'll ask my midwife about it today, but has anyone else experienced this?


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## Kellen

Sierra - We are all very excited about your scan. I bet you can hardly sit still in anticipation! Sorry to hear about the cramps, those don't sound fun at all. I haven't had cramps per-say, but I did have a terrible experience with round ligament pain. Yesterday morning I was sitting on the bed putting my socks on. As I moved to reach for my foot I was immobilized by pain for a good 10 seconds. DH was very concerned and I actually had tears spring to my eyes. Not fun. Hopefully your midwife will be able to tell you about your cramps. Keep us updated on your scan!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! I am just bubbling over excited! It's all I dreamt about last night! lol 

Sorry to hear about your round ligament pain---that's crazy! Hopefully that doesn't happen that severly too often! 

Did the rest of you have to drink a quart of water and hold it for the scan? If so, how long before they let you go to the bathroom?! My bladder is SO full right now and I have 45 minutes before my scan even starts! :(


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## Jo_Bean

Good luck for the scan sweetie :D 
Yes to the water! I think the distraction of seeing baby helps. I had to empty my bladder half way through because of baby being stubborn and having it's legs crossed. But usually they let you go as soon as you finish in the scan :thumbup:


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## Kellen

I know you are probably in the scan right now. (Hooray!) But I also had a very full bladder when I had my scan. Once they let me off the table I was more excited to use the bathroom than to finally know the gender of my child.


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## DragonflyWing

Can't wait to hear about the scan!!

Have you all been discussing names yet? DH and I have finally come to a decision for both babies! :D 

Little girl will be Lilja May (pronounced lily-a), and little boy will be Gunnar Jeremy. DH has strong Norwegian ancestry, and wanted Scandinavian names...I had to talk him out of Magnus and Berger Axel for the boy! :wacko: Seriously? Berger Axel! May was DH's grandmother's name, and Jeremy was my brother who died at birth. We thought it would be nice to honor family with the middle names.


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## Jo_Bean

Lovely names Dragon xxxx

We can't agree on any at the moment, so are hoping that when we have our next scan we'll find out and only have to think of one name!


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## helena

Love the names Dragon! Lila, so unusual and pretty.
I haven't told anyone our names, but we are thinking ***sorry, deleted as keeping secret for now and changing mind every 3 minutes ***. as with Dragon, middle names are from our family. But it's all a secret, so shhh ;) x
Sierra, how's it going???.....xx


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## wamommy

Sierra, I hope the scan is going well, and I can't wait to hear all about it!! 

DragonflyWing and Helena, those are all beautiful name choices! We haven't even begun discussing it. DH says to wait until we know the gender. He "says" I can choose the name this time, but we'll see :winkwink:.

Kellen, I've had a couple of those round ligament moments. I was lifting something the other day and it felt like an electric shock hit me in the tummy, above where baby is. It was so weird! I tend to get it if I twist or lift.


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## Kellen

Sierra, I hope everything is going okay. We are all anxiously awaiting your results.

As for names DH has a very strong opinion about what he wants to name the baby: Kristy Renee.

My direct supervisor's name is Kristy and it just seems "too girly" and too popular for my taste. The reason he is stuck on this name is because he went to high school with a girl by this name and she died in a tragic accident that he blamed himself for for a long time.
So I understand the emotional attachment, but not for me. There are 14 years between us so at the time this happened I was a whole 3 years old...

I am personally wanting to name her Kathleen Rae and call her Kat for short. Kathleen is my MILs middle name and Rae is my mom's middle name. I think it is cute. Because I know that DH would never go for Spencer... which is my first pick.


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## SierraJourney

Hello everyone!! I am FINALLY back at the computer! And we are completely 100% BOY!!!!! There wasn't any uncertainty at all---our little guy was flashing his stuff so proudly that we saw ALL of his boy parts! haha. :) I'm in absolute love already! And COMPLETELY shocked! I had a feeling it was a boy, and I kept calling it a "he", but when she said we're having a SON, I had to triple check to make sure I heard her correctly! (I come from a family of 3 sisters, and each of my sisters have a daughter---so everyone just assumed I'd have a daughter as well!). DH is so so SO PROUD! (He thinks he's done a mighty good job!) :haha: 

Baby is super healthy---no abnormalties or anything detected. 

I have a very low lying placenta, which if it doesn't move, will put me at risk for bleeding during pregnancy and possibly a c-section. However, the midwife is 99% sure it'll move as my uterus expands and we won't have problems. BUT, the good news is that I get another scan in 3rd trimester to double check the placenta! So, YAY extra scan! :)

Oh---and the cramps---nothing to worry about unless I'm bleeding as well. Our little one is as healthy as can be! :)

We have a first name picked out, but still no middle name. And DH won't let me tell anyone (even online friends :( ) until after baby is born. . . so sorry. :( (I'm a blabber, so I really really want to spill, but I promised DH!)


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## Jo_Bean

Congratulations honey :yipee: team :blue: that evens things up a bit! So pleased that everything is wonderful! Couldn't be more happy for you xxx


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## wamommy

YAY Sierra!!! SO happy it went well, and congrats on team :blue:!!! I'm sure your placenta will move on up, and it's a great excuse to see your little man again before he makes his big debut. :D

My scan is early tomorrow morning, and I'm so worried about it I feel like I could throw up! Hearing amazing scan results from you guys helps me think all will be fine. One more sleep... *shakes with excitement and dread*


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> YAY Sierra!!! SO happy it went well, and congrats on team :blue:!!! I'm sure your placenta will move on up, and it's a great excuse to see your little man again before he makes his big debut. :D
> 
> My scan is early tomorrow morning, and I'm so worried about it I feel like I could throw up! Hearing amazing scan results from you guys helps me think all will be fine. One more sleep... *shakes with excitement and dread*

Oh wamommy! Don't be worried! I'm sure it will go just excellently!!! It's such an amazing process to see! I'm excited for you!!!!


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## helena

Yay Sierra, little boys are so lovely!!! (trust me, I feel I am a bit of an expert!) congratulations!!

Wamommy, don't be scared, it will be an amazing day! Xxx


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations on team blue, Sierra!! That's so exciting! 

wamommy, try not to worry too much, I'm sure everything will be great! :hugs:


----------



## Jo_Bean

Good luck for tomorrow Wamommy xxxx


----------



## wamommy

I'm leaving for my scan in about a half hour!! (it's only 7:30am here) I didn't sleep a wink last night. My DH says I"m crazy to worry so much. He said to me this morning, "I'm not worried, I'm positive the baby is a perfectly healthy little girl." I've honestly not thought much about gender today, and instead am panicking about baby's health. I don't know WHY. I'm not usually such a worrier. I really, really hope it isn't some sort of intuition.
Argh, I'm such a whiner!! Thank you all for your well-wishes, and I should be back in a couple hours with a (hopefully) wonderful update!


----------



## helena

Oooh enjoy!!! See you later xx


----------



## Jo_Bean

My hubby and I were really sniping at each other the morning of our scan. I'm sure now that it was because we were both nervous. Everything will be fine xxx thinking of you and can't wait for an update!


----------



## DragonflyWing

Can't wait for your update, wamommy! 

DH finally felt movement last night!! We were snuggling in bed and he was chasing the little lumps and bulges around my belly for the longest time before he actually felt one of them move. He got such a kick out of it, it was really sweet. 

We were marvelling over how huge my uterus is already...I'm feeling kicks all the way up by my ribs, and I can feel the sides of my uterus extending all the way to either side of my abdomen. There's pretty much nowhere to go but OUT now! It's kind of exploded over the last week or so.

Haha! Just as I was typing that, I felt a huge kick just under my ribs on the left, so I put my hand there and Lilja kicked twice more in the same spot, I even saw my hand move with each one! Those were the strongest kicks yet!


----------



## SierraJourney

wamommy-good luck! I can't wait to hear about how GOOD your scan goes! :) 

Dragon--that's adorable!!! My uterus is just about even with my bellybutton, but I can feel my sides expanding, too. I can't see any lumps, yet, but I can feel them. I LOVE being pregnant! 

Anyone else picking out nursery decor? Since my sister is moving in soon, we are trying to paint the nursery before she moves in---but I want to pick out the decor in order to pick out the nursery color! haha! Right now, DH and I are really liking a turtle/frog theme, a bee theme, and a plaid theme. I can't decide between each one. :)


----------



## wamommy

I'm back from my scan, ladies, and it was AMAZING!!! Baby looks beautiful and healthy, measuring about a week ahead (but they aren't moving my due date) and we found out which gender we're having. I have to use ALL of my self control not to tell you guys what team we're on, because DH and I want to tell my mom before anyone else. We see her on Monday, so I'll have to wait to share our news until then!! Honestly, what matters most is that baby looks super happy and mellow in there. Baby was doing the weirdest yoga pose through half of the ultrasound, with its leg extended straight up by its face!
I also found out that my placenta is anterior, which explains why I felt kicks later than expected, and why they're still taps and bumps more than "kicks" if that makes sense. The sonographer said around 24 weeks is when I should feel baby more with the placenta where it is.

Needless to say, I'm completely relieved. I had such horrid dreams about this scan, and it was all for nothing! Baby is beautiful and I am one happy Mama today :cloud9:


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## SierraJourney

Congrats Wamommy!!! I am dying to know the gender!!!!! I can't wait until you can tell us!! So happy that it went so well!!


----------



## helena

Great news wamommy!!! :) 
2 sleeps left for me :)

Dragon - how do you know which baby is which when they kick? Do they not move about? I have no idea with twins. Sounds like you are growing well!
I can't really be sure where y uterus goes up to. But most movements are low, below belly button, right down to my pubic bone.


Feel like I must be virtually the last to have my big scan. Roll on Friday :)


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## Jo_Bean

It is so amazing isn't it Wamommy! Congratulations on a healthy bubba xx can't wait til Monday to hear which team you are!!!


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## helena

21 weeks! Congratulations my fellw butternut squashes!!

Pelvis issues stepping up a gear today, feels like a nerve trapped between my body and left leg. Hobbling slightly like a granny. And achey pelvic bones, right to back . Urgh. Still, scan tomorrow, butternut squah today, So i am still smiling :) xxx


On a concerning note,I see my ticker saying baby's sleep cycle is established...bugger, it's always wiggly at 5am...noooooooo! This must change! Lol x


----------



## SierraJourney

helena said:


> 21 weeks! Congratulations my fellw butternut squashes!!
> 
> Pelvis issues stepping up a gear today, feels like a nerve trapped between my body and left leg. Hobbling slightly like a granny. And achey pelvic bones, right to back . Urgh. Still, scan tomorrow, butternut squah today, So i am still smiling :) xxx
> 
> 
> On a concerning note,I see my ticker saying baby's sleep cycle is established...bugger, it's always wiggly at 5am...noooooooo! This must change! Lol x

What?! Sleep cycle established?! If that's the case, then DH and I are in so much trouble! lol I was JUST commenting to DH this morning how I dont think our little guy is getting enough sleep because this is how a normal day goes: 3a.m.-wake up and feel lo kicking, 5 a.m. feel a kick, 6:30a.m. feel a bunch of kicks until about 7a.m., then feel kicks at 8:30a.m., 10:30a.m., then normally around 2:30-3:30p.m., once in a while at 4p.m., and then he usually settles down until 7p.m., but kicks pretty regularly from 7p.m. until 9:30p.m., then a few kicks around 10:30p.m! My little guy is always moving! I hope this isn't his regular sleep cycle! lol

On another note, I'm EXTREMELY emotional. Yesterday was a stressful day at work, but I was able to talk to our insurance and find out that a breast pump is covered completely (hooray!), so I get my doctor to fax a prescription to a pharmacy that has pumps, they close at 5:30p.m., so I leave work at 5:15p.m., get there, pick out my pump, etc, only to have the pharmacy worker ask me, "Did you have the baby already?" (I wanted to say DUH, do I LOOK like I've had the baby yet!?!? :dohh: ), but I politely told her, "No, not yet". She then goes on about how my insurance won't cover a pump until after the baby is born. I told her I had already talked to my insurance and they approved it. I got angry and said to her, "So, you really expect a mom who just had a baby to walk in here the next day to pick up a pump!?--Like she doesn't have anything better to do!?" And I don't know about your hospitals, but my hospital apparently trains you on the pump soon after the baby is born---they want to make sure you know how to use it properly, etc. So, needless to say, after arguing with her (and DH arguing with her---because she kept saying that you need to lactate to get a pump---so, bless his heart, DH kept saying to her---"Don't you know that you can start lactating even before the baby is born!?!" ---we walked out of there without a pump. :( I started crying uncontrollably (HORMONES!), and poor DH was just wonderful and told me he'd make all of the calls today to the insurance company, the pharmacy, etc, and pick out the brand and everything. Then, he made me dinner, cleaned the kitchen, and held me. :)

Then hormones again first thing this morning! Apparently my bosses are still "discussing" the work-from-home thing. (They had originally told me I'd be working full time from home, and only come in for meetings), but the office manager talked to me today that they want me to be caught up on what's going on in the office, so they are thinking about having me come in to the office part time and working from home part time---but they haven't decided yet. I burst into tears, because 1) I need to know for sure so I can start looking at daycares or babysitters! 2) I don't have the extra finances to pay for that much daycare when I was expecting to only be paying for maybe an hour a week! And especially because the mold problem we have in our basement has to be cleaned up ASAP, and we have to get out a loan to even pay for that! 3) At least have a meeting with me or something---don't just leave me in the dark and spring stuff on me! I'm so emotional and scared right now---I mean, I really don't know what I'll do if they want me to work at the office part time. I can't afford that. :( 

Anyways. . . I wish my hormones weren't so out of whack right now---I just feel like the tears come before I can even explain myself and then I'm such a blubbering mess that no one knows what to do with me. :( 

Argh....sorry for the rant. I know you guys understand. 

Regardless, I love my little boy (who is moving around like crazy at the moment), and so happy to be 21 weeks! :)


----------



## helena

Oh Sierra,Sounds like quite a time..hugs xxxx

Here the pharmacy charges by the day for the pump, maybe that has omething to do with it? I pumped with my irst. It's seriously hard work, I won't do it again unless I have to. But operating the machine is easy. Less training than breasfeeding..,I'm sure you have thought it all through, but do be aware it does make life more complicated...

Here they also give them out after you have baby. If they need to order it's quick, 1 day.


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## DragonflyWing

So glad your scan went well, wamommy...can't wait until you tell us the gender! My guess is boy :)



helena said:


> Dragon - how do you know which baby is which when they kick? Do they not move about? I have no idea with twins. Sounds like you are growing well!
> I can't really be sure where y uterus goes up to. But most movements are low, below belly button, right down to my pubic bone.

Lilja's amniotic sac is on the left, and Gunnar's is on the right. So far, they haven't changed positions much, except to go head down or head up. I don't know if that will change later on, but for now I always know that if I feel kicks on the left, it's Lily, and if it's on the right, it's Gunn :D

The confusion starts when it's in the middle! :winkwink:


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## SierraJourney

SO cute Dragon!!!


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## Midnight_Fairy

awww at twin kicks :D

My baby girl has not stopped moving all day!

Happy 21weeks xx


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## wamommy

Happy 21 weeks everyone!

Sierra, it sounds like you have a TON going on, and getting emotional is completely understandable. At least it sounds like DH is in your corner! Yay him :) As far as work goes, that is very stressful. Finances can be impossible to deal with even without hormones. I REALLY hope they let you work full-time from home!

Helena, your scan is tomorrow, right?? I"m SO excited to hear all about it!

DragonflyWing, it must be fun feeling 2 sets of kicks! Are they on different schedules, or active at the same time?


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## DragonflyWing

I haven't been able to work out their schedules yet. I just feel little taps and nudges here and there throughout the day, and then they seem to be most active when I'm resting in the evening. With both placentas in the front, sometimes I have to really focus before I start feeling them. I tend to feel Lily most often, I think because she's higher up...Gunn is down lower and more cushioned by my belly fat ;)


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## helena

Yes wamommy, it is tomorrow, 9am! Yeeeeha! It will be the first scan or doctors appointment DH has been to with this pregnancy so I am extra excited for him, will seem more real for him when he sees it on screen :)
Last time the lady also pressed the 4d button for a few minutes for us so I hope to get a nice piccie :)
How to sleep tonight?!?..


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## helena

Team PINK!! Scan was perfect, despite me and DH bickering beforehand (Jo, you said you guys were the same right? Nerous maybe..)baby was great, all measured right and 100% girl! Happy family today.
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_24300634.jpg


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## Jo_Bean

:pink:!!!!!!! Team pink is certainly winning at the moment!

Congrats Helena and family xxxx

Yeah we were awful at bickering before hand, I am sure it was nerves :D 
So happy for you!!!


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## SierraJourney

Congrats helena!! That's awesome! This is the first girl for you, isn't it? That's so wonderful!

DH and I dtd for the first time in a while. . .but quite honestly, I don't know if I care to do it again during pregnancy! :( It was awkward and uncomfortable---no matter how we tried to do it, and the cramping afterwards was SO bad! I had cramps for at least 2 hours afterwards! And to top it off, baby didn't move at all like he usually does at night. :( I'm wondering if he didn't like the cramping either! :(


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## helena

Yes sierra. Our first girl, my 4 year old is especially happy which makes me super happy!
Doc confirmed my placenta is at the front which will account for my lack of feeling sometimes. The little lady weighs about 400g.

Oh I wouldn't like that cramping at all Sierra, eek. I think we dtd twice since bfp but I am also not so keen to try again. At least not until baby is definitely viable. Rest up xx


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Yes sierra. Our first girl, my 4 year old is especially happy which makes me super happy!
> Doc confirmed my placenta is at the front which will account for my lack of feeling sometimes. The little lady weighs about 400g.
> 
> Oh I wouldn't like that cramping at all Sierra, eek. I think we dtd twice since bfp but I am also not so keen to try again. At least not until baby is definitely viable. Rest up xx

Oh that's just so terrific! So glad to hear helena! My little guy weighs a bit less than that--but close---coming in at 14 ounces exactly!


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## wamommy

YAY Helena!! Congrats on team :pink:! I am biased, but I have to say that raising girls is absolutely wonderful. I'm so glad your son is excited too :D There will probably be less competition with your boys and more doting over your princess :yipee: I'm glad to hear your placenta is in the front, too! It explains not feeling movement earlier (even with a third child) At least with me, it made me feel WAY better, like the baby was active and totally fine, I just had a pillow running across my belly cushioning the kicks :dohh: SO happy for you!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Aw another member of team pink :) congrats xxx


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## SierraJourney

Looks like our little boys are going to have a number of baby girls to date when they're older! ;)


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> 21 weeks! Congratulations my fellw butternut squashes!!
> 
> Pelvis issues stepping up a gear today, feels like a nerve trapped between my body and left leg. Hobbling slightly like a granny. And achey pelvic bones, right to back . Urgh. Still, scan tomorrow, butternut squah today, So i am still smiling :) xxx
> 
> 
> On a concerning note,I see my ticker saying baby's sleep cycle is established...bugger, it's always wiggly at 5am...noooooooo! This must change! Lol x

Pelvic paing grounding me to a stop in my walks, I cant really walk faster without stopping and it even worse when I am in bed.Gosh I cant even put on a pant without moaning:cry:

Sleeping pattern mmmmm am awake by 4 am and i bet the wiggly wiggler will be looking for food as I always wake up damn hungry.I have so far managed to resist eating until atleast 6am!!!


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## helena

Its awful isn't it Kim. I really feel embarrassed sometimes when I walk like I am 9 months pregnant, or overdue!! So painful.

Another pic of my little lady from yesterday...a certain liking to Victoria Beckham me thinks?! Lol https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_7CCD2532.jpg


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## wamommy

She is beautiful, Helena! I can see the Victoria resemblance :D What a nice, clear shot. When I did a 3d scan with DD#1 she smashed her face up in the corner so the only pictures I had that were clear at all were one of her feet, and one of her lady parts!!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---it's Monday! When do we get to know the gender? 

How are all of you ladies doing?


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## Jo_Bean

it's been fairly quiet here recently! 

Good shout Sierra! Wamommy, can you tell us yet!?!?!?!?! 3 more days to go and hopefully I will change from yellow to pink or blue!


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## DragonflyWing

Congrats on team pink, helena!

Got back from NY last night...baby shower was great! Got tons of adorable little clothes and most of the big things we needed from our registry. Very happy :)

Unfortunately, I woke up this morning with a sore throat, which seems to be progressing with severe fatigue and headache as the morning goes on. I don't know why I always seem to get sick when I travel.

Both babies were jumping around like crazy all weekend...my mom was able to feel them move, and they kept me amused for hours on end with their acrobatics :D


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## Jo_Bean

Awwww so precious Dragon!


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## SierraJourney

Does anyone know how to get your lo moving? My stubborn little guy will give me a few kicks and then when I go to get DH, the little guy stops all kicking! Then of course when DH is gone, he'll start kicking again. I've tried pushing on my belly and trying to move him around, but he just sits as still as can be.. . lol Any tips that make them wiggle?


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## DragonflyWing

Hmm...I haven't found anything specific that makes them move yet, although they seem to kick into gear right after I eat or drink something sugary. Once in a while poking around on my belly will make them respond, but it's not consistent.

Perhaps DH's voice will make them kick? Right now our babies can hear low frequencies best, so a man's voice should be clearly audible to them if spoken right next to your belly. See if that works!


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## wamommy

Sierra, we head out to my Mom's house in a couple of hours, and when I get home I can spill the beans :D It's my niece's B-day party today, and the whole family will be there. It's perfect! 

Jo_Bean, I can't wait for your scan! Hopefully LO will be a tad more cooperative this time, or at least more of an exhibitionist... :haha:

I'm glad your trip/shower went well, DragonflyWing. What a relief that you got most of your big items covered. 

As for making baby move, the only thing I've found that consistently works it candy! That's horrible, because I eat it almost every day in order to make LO start jumping around. Even then, as soon as DH puts his hand on my tummy LO stops. I wonder why they do that? Too weird. I think DH has only felt baby one time, and that was a week or two ago! Ah well, soon our babies will be so big that we can even SEE them from the outside. That will be so fun :)

I'll be home late, probably around 10pm my time. For my beautiful European ladies it might tomorrow morning before my bump turns pink or blue! I'll be sure to post when I get home, no matter how late.

How was everyone's weekend? Fall is here finally, and the air is crisp and cold. I LOVE this time of year :D


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy! I don't want to wait that long! lol I'm sooo anxious! I have my guess on what the gender is, but I'll wait and see. :) 

And speaking of SEEING lo moving---I was sitting on the couch yesterday and the little guy kicked me so hard I saw it---I gasped and told DH and right when DH looked, he did it again! and then sitting here at my desk at work today, I could see it move AGAIN!! It was awesome! YAY for big strong babies! :) 

I'll try the candy thing and DH's voice. . .hopefully those help it move when DH is around. . . Thanks ladies!


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## DragonflyWing

That's awesome, Sierra! Last night I put my cell phone on my belly, and little boy kicked it hard enough that I saw it move :D


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## Blue_bear

There is an app you can get for your mobile...cant recall the name at the mo....but its like a movement sensor type thing and if you put it on your belly you can see on a graph when it moves :)


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## helena

I saw my belly move this weekend too Sierra! As I was laying in the bath I could feel kicks, see a twitch and ripples in the water. Awesome :)

I use chocolate to get my little lady moving :) but she still stops when hands placed on me. Still, good excuse to eat chocolate!....


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## wamommy

I'm back from my Mom's house, and I'm sure you're all sleeping, but I'll share my news for when you get up!

We are happily, excitedly, amazingly, team :blue:!!! Everyone, including DH and I, thought it was a girl. We simply can't believe it, and are SO excited. DH wanted to tell the whole family first, since he is an only child and both of his parents passed away. It was important that HE get to tell someone before I spread the word, haha. Sorry to make you wait! I'm sure you all guessed, but it's just the best news ever. Helena, I think it's so cool that we both have 2 of one gender, and got the other on #3! What an interesting and amazing new adventure this will be :D I feel like a first time Mom, and I love it!


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## Jo_Bean

I'm so happy for you Wamommy xxx congratulations!!! And we'll done for evening the count a bit for team :blue:!! How wonderful, he's going to have 2 big sisters to look after him! That's lovely that your hubby got to tell his family first :D I bet he is over the moon!


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## Midnight_Fairy

awww congratulations on team blue xx


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## Jo_Bean

so it's currently :blue: *5* - :pink: *7*

I will hopefully update on Friday, is there anyone else that we are waiting for scan results for?!


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## helena

Yaaaay wamommy! Congratulations! Woooohoooo!

We are opposites, you with 2 pink, now 1 blue, me with 2 blue now going 1 pink. It is just so exciting isn't it! A much as I would have been delighted with 3 blues the idea of trying a whole new adventure is so great now! So much to learn.. You are right, it is a bit like doing it all for the first time again!

I look forward to sharing the adventures with you xxx


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy---that's wonderful!! Congratulations!!! Welcome to team blue!! I'm so excited for this new adventure for you! DH and I registered last night---there are so many cute little boy things!! 

Jo_Bean I can't wait for your update!!!


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## helena

Anyone else hot? Like really hot? And not even in a good sexy lady way. Just in a big sweaty lady way?v:wacko:
I keep asking for windows to be opened. And tight clothing is out, it's awful, such sweaty underarms...am not enjoying this!?....:blush:

And while I am talking embarrassing, I did my first accidental pee of the pregnancy the other evening when a sneeze caught me off guard....oops! Time for a spare pair of under crackers to make their way into my bag!...pregnancy is SO glam!


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## Kellen

Good Morning Everyone!

Last week was crazy with the conference and all. This weekend (Monday counts too as it was a holiday for me) I didn't even bother to crack open my computer. Everything went really well at the conference and I got a ton of comments about how adorable my bump is and how tiny I am (really? Because I don't feel tiny... I feel like a manatee). 

On Saturday DH went with his cousin to a renewable energy conference and he is learning how to be a rep for them to make us some additional money on the side. Neither of them wake up to an alarm very well so I was up at 5am prodding them to get in the shower, drink coffee, eat breakfast, get dressed and get out of the door. Finally they left and 8am and I went back to sleep until noon. DH had been a dear and cleaned the whole house while I was away. Unfortunately nesting mode hit hard. So I did a deep clean and brought out the steamer and furniture polish. My kitchen is sparkling and woe be it to the man who disturbs my awesomeness.

Then we had planned to go to church on Sunday. At 8am (really? We don't have kids yet and church doesn't start until 11am...) DH's SIL calls and asks if he can come over and help her move furniture to their new house. So off he goes and I tootle along to church where I am sure everyone believes I lock my HD in a closet and only let him out for special occasions.

After church I make my way over to SIL new house and "supervise" the unloading of the truck. Because apparently I'm breakable and cannot be allowed to lift anything over a 1lb. It was annoying and I felt useless. Then they leave to pick up another load and I'm left with my 9 year old and 4 year old nephews who were super cranky from having been out late the night before. 4 year old napped while I supervised the 9 year old on clean up duty (room, laundry, dishes). So right as the second load was finished and DH and I were able to head home so he could change into clean clothes for Bible study a huge CRASH sounds from the kitchen. The 9 year old dropped three ceramic bowls and managed to cut a huge gash in the palm of his hand.

So my emergency training kicks in. Apply pressure. Escort hysteric child and mother to my car. Hand DH the keys. Type in address to GPS and away we go to the kids ER where 4 hours later the 9 year old emerges with 7 stitches and a story about how he was bit by a shark.

Yesterday his parents decided to keep him home from school so he stayed with us all day. Which meant we got nothing done that needed to be done (including going to look at a potential rental that is a lot bigger than where we are now). This annoys me because my BIL was off yesterday. Given he works nights and got home at 9am, but he still could have and should have looked after his own son.

Baby news! Our little girl almost has a name. Right now we are thinking of Aari Quincy or Aari Garey (my maiden name), even though I'm still thinking Quincy Rae is cute. She is a very active little girl. Any time my stomach growls or I eat she starts kicking. Thankfully she normally sleeps the night through. Except for last night she didn't want to settle down. Whenever DH puts his hand on her she stops kicking. The moment he moves it away she would go crazy. Finally he just ending up spooning me and wrapping his arms around so that I could go to sleep.
Also sciatica has been a constantly companion recently. I've had to deal with it before due to a nasty slip and fall a couple of years ago. But now I can't bend down to put my socks on so DH has to help me.

But anyways... Congrats on the :blue: and :pink:. At least the numbers have evened out a little bit. Aari is kicking away due to a rumbly tummy so I think I'll eat some yogurt. We have our 22 week appointment with the midwife this afternoon and then get to go tour the hospital. Am I weird to be looking forward to getting all the paperwork to fill out for February?


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Kellen! That's crazy all that happened! Wow!

I LOVE the name Aari! That's super gorgeous! Also glad to hear that I'm not the only one whose child stops kicking the moment Daddy tries to feel it!


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations on team blue, wamommy! That's so exciting!

Wow, Kellen, you had an eventful weekend! Aari is a lovely name :)

My sore throat has developed into a really awful cold! Feel like a truck hit me...not quite sure how I'm going to make it through work today.


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## wamommy

Thank you for all of the congrats, ladies! I'm still floating on cloud 9.

Jo, I can't WAIT until Friday!! If you turn up :blue: we'll be almost even. What do you think it is?

DragonflyWing, I'm sorry you feel sick! NOT fun being sick, and especially while pregnant. I hope you feel better soon. :hugs:

Helena, I'm not hot all the time, but I get freezing cold, then over-heated, then freezing cold again. Everywhere I go I take an extra sweater just in case, and my DH looks at me funny when we're driving in the car on a cold day and I MUST have the window open. :dohh:

Kellen, it sounds like quite a weekend! I feel a little lazy after reading all that you do! On Sunday I sat around watching football with DH and the kids, haha. My 4-year-old does all of the penalty signs along with the ref, it's too cute. I love the name Aari, too! It's different without being too out there. 

We're still clueless about a name. I am so used to looking at girl's names that I haven't even thought about boy! My DH likes what he calls "hard" boys names, like Frank and George. I am not so keen. I like names that are a bit more unique, without being too trendy. I LOVE the name Liam, but it's become way too popular.. ugh... this will be hard!


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## Midnight_Fairy

^ Liam was on our boy list! Along with Charlie :) I love Stanley for a boy but thats MIL's dogs name! LOl x


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## DragonflyWing

Just got off the phone with the nurse at my doctor's office...based on my symptoms, they think I have the flu! :wacko: That sucks. I've been told to rest and drink lots of fluids, and call them if my temperature goes over 101. Luckily, I have an appointment to see them tomorrow, so they can make sure babies are ok. The little ones haven't been moving much since I started feeling bad. I feel a little shift here and there, so I'm not panicking, but I wonder if they feel as tired as I do!


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## SierraJourney

Aww Dragon!! Rest up poor mama!!! :(


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## Jo_Bean

Helena - yes! I've been getting extreme heat flushes and then freezing cold. I thought I was going to pass out in the office today!

Wamommy - I really have no clue. I did think it was a girl for ages but then lately I've called it he a few times without thinking. So whatever it is will be a huge surprise! I bet it is just as lazy as last time though and I bet we're still team :yellow: after the scan! If I think that way then at least i won't be disappointed :haha:

Dragon - oh no hun! Sorry about the flu, keep hydrated and rest as much as possible. My bad cold last week was awful enough, the flu will be horrible :hugs:

Kellen - You sound like you need to rest a bit more, don't go over doing it!!


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## helena

Get well soon dragon!! Poor you! 


Jo and wamommy - Glad I am not the only sweaty lady xx


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## Jo_Bean

We are a bunch of sweaty Betty's :rofl:


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## Kellen

The return of the nausea. I'm not sure if I have a sudden recurrence of morning sickness or if I'm coming down with something. DH is concerned because we were around a bunch of germy kids at the urgent care facility. I'm been vomiting all afternoon, but am having DH fix noodle soup. We'll see how that goes... Emailed my boss and told him I feel like I've been hit by a truck and won't be in tomorrow. :(


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## wamommy

Oh no, ladies! This time of year is so wicked for bugs and the flu! I got the flu shot this year, but I'm still wary of viruses. Last year our whole family got Norovirus and it was AWFUL. I hope you both feel better soon!! :hugs:

Jo and Helena, at least it will be winter soon enough, and cold out when we're huge! Third trimester in summer heat would be so hard!


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## munchkinlove

congrats on all the gender scans so far!!!! ours is in the morning only 13 hours to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wamommy

I can't wait to hear Munchkinlove! It's good to see you here! :D


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## helena

Oh she's wamommy, both my boys were July babys. It was awful towards the end, so big and so hot.
Get well soon Kellen! My nausea popped back at 20 weeks. I wasn't actually sick, but felt rough on and off. hoping this is all it is for you and it passes soon! Xx


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## Jo_Bean

Helena - I am thankful for the fact that the weather has got colder here but not thankful that everywhere I've been, people seem to have the heating on already! The office was like a sauna yesterday! I am wearing less clothes today for sure!

Kellen - I was unwell last week. A bad cold, no energy, feeling sick and no appetite! I think we are more susceptible to germs and viruses whilst pregnant. I wasn't going to have the flu jab but now I'm revisiting that decision as it's not nice to be poorly whilst preggers. 

Munchkinlove - Oooh!! Can't wait to hear your gender result!! It's really exciting finding out the sex in our little group, I'm just as excited by everyone else's as I am by my own!! Team :blue: will almost even the scores and team :pink: will tip the scales!! Good luck!


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## helena

Am deep in thought today. Am hoping to get a DNA test done to see if u have the gene for breastcancer . If i do it means I am more likely to get the disease. My mum, grandma and aunt already had breastcancer so is want to be tested in case it is a hereditary genetic form. If I do have the gene then one option to reduce chances of getting cancer is to remove my ovaries. I am wondering if they could do this at the same time as my c section next year....all a bit scary but I don't really want to be opened up twice if I can avoid it...especialyl when we will have three kiddies running around...but it will mean early menopause maybe...will discuss with doctor! Suddenly I feel really grown up...

And yes Jo, it has softly cooled down here too, but then every now and then the sun will come out and make me melt in my jumpers and boots. I can't trust the weather so have to wear a fleece with a summer vest top under for when I need to strip off!...


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena, what a huge decision to make! I can't imagine being faced with it. Let's just hope you come up negative on the test, and you won't have to make that decision!


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## Jo_Bean

I was watching something about this on tv the other day and it made me cry, what an awful choice. All I can offer is that the people around the person getting tested were all for it as she could take preventative measures and the fact that they had an option to do things in advance to keep their mum, wife and friend outweighed everything - for them.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that choice, but there are a lot of positives to be had from the opportunity :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

helena. . .:hugs:


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## Kellen

Helena, I feel for you. It is a terrible choice to make, but you are at least thinking of your family and yourself. Until today my family never had a history of cancer. Now I've just found out that my grandpa has extremely advanced chest and lung cancer. They will be doing a whole body scan to determine the extent of it sometime next week. We suspect it has moved into his brain due to some abnormal behaviors he has recently began displaying.

On a happier note I feel a little bit better today. The vomiting has gone away and I've been able to keep down two bowls of chicken noodle soup and a bunch of water and Gatorade. I just feel very tired and all my joints ache.

I am excited to find out if we have two more team :blue: to even out all these little girls floating about. Like Jo said, I feel almost as excited to find out what everyone else is having,


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## munchkinlove

https://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/dschristou/BBB688C4-40C0-4FE8-92FC-C2158A042605-589-00000035AB96300D.jpg


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## Jo_Bean

Congrats munchkinlove!!! Another :pink: for the team! Back in a 2 point lead!!

That is such a gorgeous photograph too! She looks like a girl! Really pretty :cloud9:


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## wamommy

Congrats, Munchkinlove!! Another princess!! I'll update the first page :D :yipee:

Jo_Bean, you're the last hope for the blue team!! Just kidding...lol. Baby girls are simply amazing, and I'm so happy for everyone finding out their baby's gender!!


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## Jo_Bean

I'll bet it's legs are crossed again :haha: so I'm not holding my breath!

Aw, so many little girls! All of my RL friends have had boys so it's lovely to see the girls are ruling the Internet!!


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## helena

Oh yes, am feeling quite ok about it, IF i need it. 
At least I have my 3 babies (or will have by February!) and my ovaries won't be so needed. And who needs periods anyway?! Not so keen on the rest of menopause but thats a bonus! The other option is mastectomy so I told DH that when I am 40 I might have them whipped off and get a brand new perky pair!! I mean, who needs old used up saggy ones when life begins at 40!? I made DH laugh by pointing out that although he thought I wasn't a high maintenance girl it looks as if I could turn out to be very expensive after all! :)


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## helena

Munchkin - gorgeous photo! And another pink, awesome! Congratulations! Xxxx


I went to the biggest second hand kids and baby items sale in this area this morning. Got a maxicosi car seat, lovely bouncy chair, fluffy winter all in one suit and some adorable clothes, all as good as new. Also got my sons some games and only spent total of &#8364;65. Feeling rather proud of me! Can't wait to get everything out of the car later when I have a quiet time to go through all the cute clothes!!


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## Jo_Bean

Happy papaya and 22 weeks ladies!!!

Oooh sounds like you got a lot of bargains Helena! I can't wait to start shopping! Loving the positive attitude too. Hey, if you have to go through it, may as well see the plus side! But hopefully you won't have to go through it though hun xx


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## Midnight_Fairy

How many little blue and pink bumps are there? we should add a official valentines poll.

Happy 22weeks :D


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## Jo_Bean

it's currently 8 :pink: 5 :blue: by my count!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Thanks Jo :D


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## helena

Papayas and banana squashes, whatever they may be!? Yay! 22 weeks, amazing. The weeks are really flying now I find!

Only two more and we are viable! Yayayayayayayyyyyy!


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## Jo_Bean

that is so scary!

2 more weeks 'til V day!


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## Kellen

I am very much looking forward to V Day. It seems like time crawls by during the day, but flies by during the week. I am enjoying the fact that I now actually look pregnant and people don't just give me the: "Wow, has she been stocking up on the sweets?" And instead ask about the baby. Not loving the name input from my husband's side of the family.


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## Jo_Bean

oh really! Have they been coming up with some bad ideas for names?


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## helena

Oh do share!..
My son said he wanted to call our little girl Gilbert the other day!?


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## Jo_Bean

awwwwwwww Gilbert! :haha: that's just so strange that it's almost cute you know!


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations on team pink, Munchkin! 

I'm so sorry about your grandfather's diagnosis, Kellen :hugs:

Had another ultrasound yesterday, the babies are doing well :) Verified again that the genders are correct, and got some cute pictures, which I will upload later.

Still feeling really sick. At the doctor's office, they listened to my lungs and took a swab (Very unpleasant! They have to stick this long flexible brush thing up your nose...felt like she swabbed my brain!) to test for flu. She said it doesn't sound like I have pneumonia, but I was wheezing and breathing rapidly, so she prescribed an albuterol inhaler and some antibiotics, just in case. When I got home, I had tired myself out so much that it was really hard to breathe, and even with guaifenesin and the inhaler, it took an hour and a half in bed before the wheezing settled down and I could breathe easier. Very scary, since DH wasn't home, and for a short time I was afraid I'd need to go to the emergency room. Felt like someone was sitting on my chest, and I couldn't get enough air!

My breathing is a little better today, but I'm still having a really hard time. I'm not going into the office this week, to avoid infecting my co-workers, but I'm working from home. Even that is tiring me out, and I have a particularly large workload today. *sigh* I just want to crawl back into bed for a few days.


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## SierraJourney

Congrats munchkin! She's beautiful!


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## Kellen

Congrats on the little :pink: Munchkin, she is very adorable.

Dragon - I am so sorry to hear that you are still under the weather. It sounds like you have something nasty. I know the 36 hours I was under the weather was absolutely horrible. I cannot imagine how you feel. Just stay in bed and pamper yourself. Believe me, the work will still be there when you get back.

Well, we told my MIL that we were thinking of Aari as a first name. Which then prompted one of my SILs to call and say that she met a little girl named Aria, whose name was pronounced Rae and that is super cute. Come on, I want a unique name, but I don't want a teacher to look at it an butcher it. That side of the family also hates the name Quincy. Does it make me a terrible person since now I want that for a first name even more? I think I have a decent shot since my grandfather's middle name is Ray and I can use that as leverage.
My DH's grandfather died earlier this year, but neither one of his names are usable: Carl Elva. And I won't be naming my girl Elbert (my grandpa's first name). So hopefully DH will agree to Quincy again. He liked it until people started saying how no one would know if she was a girl or boy... which is the point. I hate gender discrimination and I think it will be easier for her to get job interviews in the future. Just my random rant about names.


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## Jo_Bean

I think I would be the same! I have a name for a girl, not unlike Quincy that I know people won't like in the family but if we agree on it I will be using it regardless and if the MIL hates it then I will want it even more hahahahaha!!


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## wamommy

Midnight_fairy, the first page shows what gender everyone's expecting :D I think Jo's right, that it's 8-5 with girls in a hearty lead!

Helena, I just love your attitude. I'm not sure I would handle it all so well, but seeing the bright side definitely makes it easier, and even fun! (As fun as it can be, you know what I mean :haha:)

DragonflyWing, I'm so sorry you're still sick :( I wish you could just tell everyone to back off for a few days and let you rest up. I agree with Kellen that the work will still be there, and the important thing is to take care of you and your beautiful babies.

Kellen, I like the name Aari. I was actually at a park just yesterday and a girl was named that. I thought it was beautiful and unique. I ALSO like Quincy though. We were considering Quinn for a girl, for similar reasons. As long as you and DH like it, the family will come around!

I have NO idea on boy's names. I'll have to sit and look through hundreds of them soon to make a short list for DH. DH's name preferences are, to put it nicely, yucky. I don't care for them at all! I don't want to hurt his feelings, so I suppose the best idea is to just come up with alternatives.


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## Midnight_Fairy

we have 3 names that we like....I know the family will like 2 of them but not 1 of them but tough luck :D hehe no one liked Ruby when we chose that for DD :S


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## helena

Midnight - how's about Scarlet? Keep in the red theme!


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## helena

Get well soon Dragon! I know in the summer when I get a bit of hay fever and wheeze at night it s scary feeling I can't get enough air. Can you not up work on hold? Time to recover is needed xxx


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## DragonflyWing

I wish I could just take a day or two off from work!! Unfortunately, I'm working on an important project that's time-sensitive, and the person who could normally back me up is on a business trip this week. We have deadlines and I can't even seem to step away from my computer for 20 minutes to rest. I'm trying to work from bed, but since I need to be on conference calls, it's difficult. Also, with all the doctor's appointments I have to go to, I don't have much time off left. If I took a day off, it would be unpaid. :(

On a brighter note, here are the little twinkies :) Little girl is the 3d one, and look at her little pursed lips! And we got a good profile on little boy but no 3d.
 



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## helena

Do you not get paid sick leave? Poor you, be careful x
Love the pictures!!! X


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## DragonflyWing

I do get paid sick leave, but I'm using it all up with doctor's appointments. Right now I only have 9 hours remaining (I accumulate 7 hours of paid time off every 2 weeks), and I need 3 of those for my next appointment...so I don't have a full day available to take off.


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## wamommy

What beautiful pics, DragonflyWing! SO clear! Our only real clear shot was of his boy bits, and I can't exactly go around showing that off (as much as Dad wants to!!).
It sounds like you're in a bind with work :( I hope you feel better, or at least get to rest tonight once the work day is over!

Midnight, I like the name Ruby, it's so pretty! I agree with Helena that Scarlett would be beautiful. We didn't tie our daughters' names together except for the middle name. One's middle name is Hope, the other Faith. What goes with that theme for a boy?


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> What beautiful pics, DragonflyWing! SO clear! Our only real clear shot was of his boy bits, and I can't exactly go around showing that off (as much as Dad wants to!!).
> It sounds like you're in a bind with work :( I hope you feel better, or at least get to rest tonight once the work day is over!
> 
> Midnight, I like the name Ruby, it's so pretty! I agree with Helena that Scarlett would be beautiful. We didn't tie our daughters' names together except for the middle name. One's middle name is Hope, the other Faith. What goes with that theme for a boy?

Justice?


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## wamommy

Oooh... Justice is kind of cool!


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## SierraJourney

You could always go with other language words for English words like Love, Charity, Peace, Patience, etc. ? I'm sure Google could help out with that. ;) 

My DH is wanting to go with a family name for our little boy's middle name. He originally wanted his grandfather's (from his mother's side) name. It was a nice name, but I kept telling him "no" because 1) I feel if we use one family name, then every child that we have will have to have a family name (ie. if we use his grandfather's name, then we'll have to use my grandfather's name next time). 2) It would give his mother SO much satisfaction---and I just can't have her feeling like she has some kind of pull in our lives. . . I know that might sound mean, and I really do love her and enjoy her company----but she is the type of woman that you give in to one thing with her, she will try to meddle in our lives in EVERY way. (For example, she basically planned our wedding reception even though I hated what she was doing---and DH let her. . . So. . .I feel like I can't let her "win" on anything to do with the name). 


Kellen---you aren't the only one who has to be careful around DH's family and doesn't want to do things their way! ;) (Which, btw, I think Quincy is also a very lovely name. . .) :) 

So then, DH wants his father's middle name. Now, his father is deceased (he died when DH was 13), and he meant SO much to DH. So, using that middle name sounds perfect, right?! (MIL has since remarried so I don't think this would be so much "winning" if we did choose this name). DH's father seemed like a pretty good man from what DH says. . .except there were a couple things that DH has mentioned that made me question his father's morals a little bit. . . None of them were super bad things, but things that if DH did them, I'd be furious and extremely hurt----and things that go against MY morals. Other than that, the man seemed really awesome. But I can't get out of my head those 'few' things that DH mentioned to me. I mean, I don't want to associate my precious son with a name that whenever I think of it, I think of those "few" things. I haven't said anything to DH about this---just that I would think about that middle name---I don't want DH to know I'm thinking this way about his deceased father---because I know that would hurt DH *SO* much and it's not worth getting in an argument about. So, part of me doesn't want that middle name because of these thoughts---but then I'm wondering if I'm being way too judgmental. . .I mean, no one is perfect. . . so shouldn't I just try to associate the good things about DH's father with the middle name? It doesn't mean that my son is going to do those things just because he has the name. And, I really do like the sounds of the middle name. . . I just can't get past my own thoughts! :( 

Any advice, ladies? Am I over thinkg this? Is a name just a name and nothing associated with it? I really am 50/50 on this---I could go with the name, but I could also fight it. . .


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## wamommy

It's hard, isn't it Sierra? Naming a baby seems like the easiest thing in the world. When I hear other people's names or their children's names I almost NEVER judge or dislike them. Somehow it's completely different when it's your own child, though. It's a forever thing. They will always be what you chose to name them. PRESSURE!!! :dohh:

I over think it too, obviously... lol. I would say to pretend in your own mind that you named the baby after you DH's dad, and mentally call the baby that for a few days. See how it feels. Your gut may tell you whether it's the best fit for your baby? I thought about giving this baby a family name, but my grandfathers are names Lester and Constantino... ugh no. My dad and DH have the same name, so another one might be overkill! I've never been a big fan of "Jr." names either. 

After telling DH what you said, Sierra, DH likes Love as a middle name! I said, "in what language?," and he said "Love, in English." Yikes!! He said it will build character and force him to earn the name. I can just SEE the boys on the football team having a field say with that one, though. "Your middle name is WHAT??" Oh, man...


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## Jo_Bean

It's easy to over think it but it's a process you go through before you'll just pick one:) If you loved either of the names then it wouldn't matter who else had them or what they were like. Just don't feel pressured into continuing a family name if you don't want to. You are starting your own family now and could start a new tradition instead of following old ones. 

Once your little baby is here, it won't matter why he's named what he's named. He will make the name his own. 

If you feel you need to use a family name, try and research family trees and see what other names come up. Pick the name because you love it, not because anyone else tells you too xxxx


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## helena

Sierra, if DH would really like his fathers name as a middle name I would go for it. Especially if you didn't know him and have only worries about minor stories you heard - no one is perfect, it just shows his dad was real? And that your husband loved him warts and all. 
We named our sons after family members - Ted and Sam. Neither of whom I knew directly. Both from my mums family, since they were the family names that worked best for us. But DH got to chose the middle names from his family. I didnt really think about people being put out ...but i dont think they are. Once you give someone a name it becomes their own and not the person whose it was before, if you get what i mean. So if it means a lot to DH Sierra I say go with it. 

we are just choosing the new little lady's name on a whim, nothing to do with family, just names we like. and it is proving so much harder to chose!! Short list changes daily and has about 10 options.


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## Midnight_Fairy

I love the idea of red theme with scarlet but sadly its a bit of a name used here with people I dont like much and who shout it at tops of their voices in supermarkets :( shame

We do have 2 gemstone names though and a nature name, the other name is just a name we like. Her name will definitely be one of the 4 :)


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## helena

Jo, any news? X


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## Jo_Bean

Hi ladies :wave:

So I have just posted the long version of the update in my journal if you care to have a read. But the short version is that we are being referred to a Fetal Medicine Unit as the scan showed some abnormalities with babies feet. There's a chance nothing is wrong but they want to do further tests. This took over the scan really as was a higher priority, but at the end they had a look to see the sex and we are almost definitely team :pink:

Sorry blues, you are well and truly outnumbered!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Another pinky :D


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## SierraJourney

Thanks so much ladies---I truly love our little group here. I have some serious thought on the name still, but it will help with all of the advice here!

wamommy---that's hilarious. I can definitely see the little guy getting teased in school if you use Love in English .. .but if you use a different language, the kids really won't know what it means unless your son decides to tell them. "Amor" is love in Spanish, "Amour" in French, "Gra" in Irish; "A Gra" means 'my love' in Irish. Those are some of the directions I would take, but if you guys both like the name "Love" in English---then I say, Go for it! Kids will find a myriad of things to tease about---and someday in life, they will find that "Love" is not one of those. :) 

Jo--CONGRATS!!! I love little girls, so even if the pinks do outnumber the blues, I think it's wonderful! Keep us updated on the feet---I hope everything works out okay! I will go read your journal to find out more.


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## helena

Oh yay anther pink! Congrats Jo. So sorry there my be some feety issues, when will your next scan be? You must be scared? Xxx big hug xx


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls xx they will tell us more about the tests at the specialist appointment. One of them could be amnio (which we have decided we won't have due to risk of MC) the other will be more in depth scans and measurements and poss X-rays. No idea of dates yet but expect to hear in the next couple of days. We are off on holiday for a week tomorrow so it is likely to be in a week or so.

I am sure it's all fine, it is a worry but I know they will do what is necessary xxxx


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## Midnight_Fairy

Yep you are in the best care now hun xx


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## DragonflyWing

Congrats on team pink, Jo!! I hope everything works out ok with baby's feet. :hugs: If it turns out she does have club feet, I know that's very treatable and most people go on to have no issue with it later in life. I know the famous figure skater Kristy Yamaguchi was born with it!

I'm slowly starting to feel a bit better, I think the worst of the illness is past now. I don't know if it's hormones or from being sick, but I have been crying so much over the past few days! Three times yesterday I started to cry over the silliest things, and then this morning I dropped and broke a mug, and immediately burst into tears. I wasn't really upset over the mug lol...so I don't know what my problem was. I'm so glad it's Friday, because even though I've been working from home all week, it will be nice to just be able to rest this weekend and not worry about work. I've been sleeping about 12 hours a day since I got sick, but it doesn't seem to be enough, because I'm still constantly exhausted. Luckily today should be slow with work, so I might be able to get a nap in on my lunch break.


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## wamommy

Jo, congrats on team pink!! Little girls are an absolute dream! <3
I hope the specialists can shine some light on her little feet. I had a good friend in high school who was born with club feet, and she showed me the casts from her operation as an infant. She kept them in a little box in her closet, and was so proud to show them off! She played volleyball with me and was quite good, and I never would have guessed anything had been different about her feet when she was born. I know it's scary and not what you expected, but at least her little heart and brain looked GREAT and she'll be a happy healthy little baby, just may need some special attention for a while. I'll go update the first page now!!

Our poor boys are getting trounced!! 

DragonflyWing, I'm so glad to hear you're feeling better! LOL about dropping the mug. :haha:


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## helena

Just ate a whole pizza. Am sure that used to fill me up....:shrug:


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## SierraJourney

helena, pizza sounds WONDERFUL right now! lol 

Anyone else have baby showers set up yet? We decided to just have one that DH's aunt is going to throw for me. It's going to be on November 17th! It'll be a small shower of about 20 people. I'm not big into parties, so that's just the right size for me! :)


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## helena

Oh good or you Sierra! I won't be having one, it's not my thing. I don't think many of us Brits do. Most of my closest friends even here in France are Britih too so no offers of anyone to granite he for me either!.. I have been to a couple of baby howers and they were fun, but with this being baby no 3 too it wouldn't seem right! I especially enjoyed blind Folded pin-the-sperm-on-the-egg game a the last one I went to :) was especially comical that one guest who happened to be lesbian got the sperm way off target. We did all laugh.

November isnt far away at all Sierra!


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Oh good or you Sierra! I won't be having one, it's not my thing. I don't think many of us Brits do. Most of my closest friends even here in France are Britih too so no offers of anyone to granite he for me either!.. I have been to a couple of baby howers and they were fun, but with this being baby no 3 too it wouldn't seem right! I especially enjoyed blind older pin-the-sperm-on-the-egg game a the last one I went to :) was especially comical that one guest who happened to be lesbian got the sperm way off target. We did all laugh.
> 
> November isnt far away at all Sierra!

Oh my goodness---that's hilarious! haha 

Yes, it's coming up here quickly! We either had to have it in November or January to avoid the holidays---so I opted for an early one in November because I thought January was too close to the due date. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Haha pin the sperm on the egg! :haha: I wish we had thought of that for my shower! I had one last weekend in NY for my family there, and then my sister in law is throwing me another one here in WI on Oct 20th for DH's family and my work friends. It's going to have a "two pumpkins in a patch" theme, so all the decorations and food will be pumpkin inspired.

I got this t-shirt to wear to the party :D


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## wamommy

Too CUTE DragonflyWing!! I love that idea :) I'm not planning on dressing up for Halloween parties this year, but if anyone asks I'll tell them my costume is "Pumpkin Smuggler" :haha:

I'm with Helena, being my 3rd baby I just wouldn't feel right about a shower. My mom mentioned having one, since it's my first boy, but I would feel so bad! I never had a shower with my first, because my sister who was throwing the shower had a huge emergency last-minute and cancelled 2 days before :( I like the idea of the sperm meets egg game, though, and it WOULD be an excuse to see family and friends... hmm... maybe I'll have a shower with a no-gift rule? LOL I just don't want to seem greedy.


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## helena

Wamommy, you could always say a no gift except boy clothes rule?....surely you need some more blue in your collection :)
Not sure I will dress for Halloween this year, but can't wait to dres big and round at Christmas! Even if I am not going to any paries I must have a big sparkly dress so I look like a bauble!


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## helena

Ooh think we may have settled on a name! For now at least!
We thought we were choosing a name we liked, nothing to do with faily trees (our boys are both family names) so we had a favorite and tonight DH found it in his family tree back in the 1890s. So it is like it was MEANT to be! 
..keeping it secret for now ;) excited tho :)

Have a good Saturday eve all. It's vege curry and x factor here :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

^ love that connection!

I dont think I will have a baby shower. I feel a bit cheeky asking!

I may just have some pink cupcakes made and pink cocktails for the non preg ladies and pink lemonade for my pregnant friends and just have a get together but not a "shower" x


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## wamommy

Yay on picking a name, Helena!! It's amazing that you found it in the family, too! 

Midnight, the get together idea sounds lovely :D To be honest, we'll probably do nothing, since most of my family and friends are spread out all over and getting together is such a chore. Maybe I'll just treat myself to a haircut at a fancy place or something, lol.


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## helena

Ooh grumpy emotional pregnant lady alert. Am a bit of a monster today. Yelled at my eldest because he wasn't listening to me, accidentally hurt his finger, grumped at DH and had to walk outside and do some crying / deep breathing during breakfast (which was especially mad as it was cold and dark outside). 
I hate Monday mornings....I hereby ban them.
Have cried 3 times so far and it's only 1015!


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## SierraJourney

Oh helena! That's horrible! I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly!! These dang pregnancy emotions. . . I will never admit it to DH, but the hormones are the reason for he and I having a bit of a disagreement yesterday. :) All is well now, though. haha. I hope your Monday morning gets better!!

We are picking out paint this week and painting the nursery this weekend! Hooray! I ordered a window valance from the baby set I'm registered for so I can take it to the store and match paint to it. Frogs and Turtle theme. :) So excited to start painting the nursery! :)


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## Kellen

I love the shirt, Dragon. My mom sent me this one https://www.cafepress.com/mf/21881102/pregnant-boy-due-february-bel_tshirt for my birthday, except that it is black with hot pink writing and says "Girl" instead of boy.

Today is a hard day. It is my birthday, but it was also supposed to be my due date for my little one that I lost in February. I am so thankful that I am pregnant again, but at times I feel selfish and that it is wrong to forget my first baby. I should be in labor now, but instead I have 3 months to go. I feel very conflicted about this, but don't feel that most people would understand.

On an up note DH took me out on the town last night and found our missing MP3 player that went MIA in March. We had reservations for this really cool place that is built in an old schooner, but we didn't realize that they only do fondue on soybean oil. I am dreadfully allergic to soy... :( So then we went to a pub known as the Ship and Anchor (yes, there was a theme), but all they had for me to eat were salads. I didn't want a salad for my birthday. We ended up at an Outback Steakhouse because I had heard they have a gluten free menu. It was awesome! And because it was my birthday they brought out chocolate ice cream with mouse over crushed gluten free oreos.

Randomly in the middle of the night I was struck with a feeling I haven't felt for a while (since becoming pregnant). I actually wanted DH. He was very surprised, but very very very happy when I woke him up and explained. His question afterwards: "Does this mean you're finally becoming a crazed sex maniac like the rest of our pregnant friends?" :doh: Really? One time does not qualify in my book... But he was happy and I felt pleased that I actually had energy.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---that is so hard! :( I lost my first pregnancy on May 11th. I keep thinking how much further along I should be as well. My due date for that pregnancy was January 3rd---a day after my birthday. So, I know I shall be thinking of my first baby at that time. It's hard for anyone to feel exactly how you feel with having lost a pregnancy, but know that you aren't alone. :hugs:

I had one of those bursts of energy and moods on Saturday morning with DH---he LOVED it! However, he thought Sunday morning should be the same way! lol . . .I, however, was not in the mood on Sunday. I'm hoping I get another whim like that again because I know it made him so happy!


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## DragonflyWing

Happy birthday, Kellen! I'm sorry for your loss in February :hugs:

It sounds like you ended up having a nice birthday dinner even with the few initial snags! That dessert sounds yummy. :)

I wish that I would have a burst of energy like that...poor DH, he is so deprived. Especially with having been sick for a week already, I haven't even had the slightest bit of interest in being intimate.


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## Midnight_Fairy

lol love the te shirt x


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## helena

Seems there are a few of us in a similar bag.i also lost a baby on 10 or 11 may. But you know, I haven't thought much about it since it was lost so early (4+3), but a few times when I have been looking at baby names and some make references to remembering I do think of him/her. But I don't think about it's due date etc. Kellen, we're you far along? Hugs.
Happy birthday! X

My day got better. DH surprised me by sneaking past or house while out working this morning to give me an extra hug. Love him!


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Seems there are a few of us in a similar bag.i also lost a baby on 10 or 11 may. But you know, I haven't thought much about it since it was lost so early (4+3), but a few times when I have been looking at baby names and some make references to remembering I do think of him/her. But I don't think about it's due date etc. Kellen, we're you far along? Hugs.
> Happy birthday! X
> 
> My day got better. DH surprised me by sneaking past or house while out working this morning to give me an extra hug. Love him!

Awww! What a good DH!!


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## Kellen

Thanks for the support, everyone. We weren't too far along - only 7 weeks - but it was still awful. I guess the due date stuck with me because it was my birthday. 

My mom is in the process of trying to convince my friends to host a "virtual" baby shower for me since no one lives around here. 3000+ mi is a bit far to travel for a shower. I'm not too concerned since I know at least one of my friends will be flying out a month after the baby is born and she wants to buy a bunch of stuff that we need.

Next week I have an appointment to speak with the HR director for my agency. Our insurance is currently on open enrollment so she is going to walk me through the best options. I am also eligible to enroll for short-term disability so that I can continue to get paid (not at the full amount) during maternity leave. DH's open enrollment is next month so we'll be taking advantage of both. Thankfully I'm a state employee so our baby will have full insurance for $24/mo that is required to be accepted at all pediatrician offices.


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## wamommy

Kellen, Happy Birthday!!! I hope you have a great day, and I can understand it being mixed with sadness. I also lost a baby May 8th (after another loss March 3rd). I had no idea so many of us on this thread were coming straight off a loss! It's a complicated set of emotions, and it's so tough. I hope you can give your lost baby a quiet love, and then give yourself permission to celebrate your OWN birth :D

Helena, want to trade DH's?? :haha: He sounds amazing. The most romantic thing my DH ever does is to leave the room to pass gas :dohh:

How was everyone's weekend? Ours was pretty lazy here. I got a lot of house cleaning done, and watched a lot of football, but other than that was pretty boring! Our rainy season finally hit, after record-setting dry spell for Seattle. We went 81 days without rain! Well, we're paying for it now, and there's not much to do around here when it's pouring rain. I'm thinking maybe the Children's Museum tomorrow. Sigh...


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## helena

He is pretty special wamommy :)... Ooh hormones ow making me less psychotic mum and more soppy loved up wife!....:wacko:

It's amazing so many of us had losses recently before our current babies. Guess it goes to show how often it happens. I remember reading it happens to 1 in 3 pregnancies.it was my third so I remember kind of expecting it in an awful way. 
Maybe we wil meet these little ones in another place one day.

Oooh hormones now making me all dreamy and romantic....these hormones have a lot to answer to today!:dohh:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone, any plans for this week?? xx


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## Kellen

Thanks for all the support everyone. It is amazing and sad that so many of us are recovering from recent losses. I'm better today and ended up having a pretty good night as I forced DH to go grocery shopping with me.

Now I am completely unmotivated to do work. I need to get some future projects started because I am pretty much out of the office and in the field almost every day next week. 

We were supposed to be attending a water birth class this Thursday, but the computer at the hospital has lost us. They are trying to see if the nurse in charge of the class will make an exception for us. She happens to be the one who gave us the tour when I was sick and throwing up. Maybe that will make her more sympathetic to my plight?


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## Kim2012

Hello Ladies,
sorry to hear about all the reminders about the lost little ones. Computer was down and I should say the mobile version isnt that fab to be on.Its so limiting and straining on the eyes

struggling with on and off migrane and now dizzy spells .anyone else or is it just me? 


On another note , would you buy a pre-packed hospital bag?


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## DragonflyWing

A pre-packed hospital bag? Never heard of that! What would be in it?


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## wamommy

I've never heard of a pre-packed hospital bag! Interesting idea :D I think this time I will pack WAY less than the last two times. I read lists online about what should be in it, and packed everything under the sun. All I really used out of it were:
_Socks with sticky rubber on the bottom
Shampoo and conditioner
Toothbrush/paste
Going-home clothes (Sweats or maternity)
A few tiny diapers and an outfit to take baby_ _home in._

I think that's IT honestly. I might bring make-up and my own pajamas in an attempt to be optimistic, but last time I lived in the hospital gown and looked like the walking dead for 2 days after. Hopefully I'll have the energy this time to look a TAD better for pics. (Not during of course! The day after, when grandparents start snapping away with the camera).


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## helena

How could anyone else pack your pjs? I haent wear of the re cackled bags either. I wouldn't like it I don't think. I will be in for 4 or 5 nights wit it being a c sec, so I will need quite a lot of stuff.

I will be taking 
2 pairs of pjs, maybe 3 pj bottoms in case of,..leakage...
Nursing bras, 
Slippers
Plenty of cheap undies I am happy to throw if needed..gosh it's all so glam..
And a couple of comfy outfits with high waist bands (not so glam, but thinking c sec wound!) and easy access to the milk machines. Am thinking jogging trousers and a vest with a fleece or cardigan if needed. Ta way I don't have to get entirely topless to feed baby.
Oh that reminds me, I will also take some nipple shields in case of pain..and lanolin. Though I really want to buy some silver nipple cups before then too..but that is a whole different story. Breasfeeding has always been painful for me so I will probably have a whole bag of supplies for my boobs to take with me..

Toiletries etc
Arnica tablets. Not sure they work, but I took them with my ds1 and it was a very easy recovery.
Make up! (essential if I want to feel normal!). Hair dryer and defuser. Sounds bonkers and very vain but I want to feel good and human the day after the op, not like a patient.

Some DVDs
No books but a selection of cheap and cheerful magazines I can dip into with minimal concentration required.
And a lot of snacks for when I am wide awake in the night with baby and hungry and bored.
Some kids coloring books and pencils for when my boys or kids of friends visit, so the kids don't be bored and try pressing emergency buttons, swing from emergency alarm cords etc,,..
I will be taking a wrapped gift for each of my boys, to celebrate them being big brothers. Kids cameras maybe, so they can take pics there. Or something hospital themed.

We are so lucky here the hospital provides nappies and clothes and everything for baby.

Still, looks like I may need to hire a removal van! Lol! X


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## wamommy

I hadn't thought about a longer stay in case of c-section! Hmm... Maybe I should pack a bit more just in case? We're only 14 minutes from the hospital, though, and DH will be going home during the nights with DDs, so I can always make lists for him to pick up at home :haha:

I don't think anything on your list sounds unreasonable, Helena! DVDs are a good idea, since there's a tv but NOTHING on in the middle of the night. I might bring a good book, too. I REALLY like the idea of wrapped gifts for the older kids. I will use that :D

I think this time I'll put the bag in the car at around 35 weeks. Both DDs were born at 38 weeks, but DD#2's entire labor start to finish was a very fast and scary hour and a half. I'm afraid we won't make it to the hospital! My OB said they may want to induce me this time to prevent "precipitous birth." YIKES! I really don't think he'll just fall out at home, but I want to be as ready as possible.


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## helena

Ooh wamommy, sounds scary! I have always been scheduled c sections, the whole idea of just waiting for it to happen sounds scary to me. Especially if it can be quick..

A friend of mine had her third baby 20 minutes after her waters broke...


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## SierraJourney

Oh goodness---you guys are making me even more paranoid about labor. . .lol :) I told DH the other day that we have to install the carseat base in our car soon because I wanted to be "ready"!! haha. He rolled his eyes at me and said it can wait a while. . . :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

I packed books with DD and I never read them, I was too busy looking at her, feeding her or trying to sleep!

This time I am taking old nightie to labour in
clean pjs
Clean nightie
thick socks
2x normal socks
slippers
robe
towel
joggers
2xtops
2xbra
breast/maternity pads
1pack nappies
1 pack cotton wool
make up bag
dry shampoo
hairbrush and bands (forgot bands before and they used a elastic band aghh)
Phone
camera
deodorant
big pants (2packs so I can chuck them lol didnt like disp pants ughh like paper)
face wipes

ummm think thats it really


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## Kim2012

https://www.bagsofessentials.co.uk/bags.html

Thats basically what the pre-packed hospital bag contains. I just pumped on the site but what i really like is the actual bag rather than the contents. Just wondering if its worth it pricewise!


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## helena

I would send the money on a bag and fill it with my own stuff. Is nothing like your own toothbrush. And 2 breast pads? Really, 2? That may only last a couple of hours..but then I guess most ladies would be and heading home by the time their milk arrives. Poor old c sectioners are still stuck there for days..I do dream of a birth where bag arrives and I can go home almost right away. The service here is amazing, it's a private hospital, private room and amazing food etc. but usually I will be there 1 night before the operation (why I don't know), and 4 or 5 after. I will push for getting out sooner as I hate being away from my family and it is just so quiet in hospital, especially with being in a room on your own.as relaxing as it may sound, I am used to a house full of noisy boys, with cartoons blaring, someone shouting, 3 people all talking at once...silence with the occasional baby gurgle is odd for me. I may feel claustrophobic too since the windows don't open, it's all air con..think I will go for lots of walks to the hospital restaurant or car apr for fresh air (nurses watch baby for yo if you want) to save me going crazy!

Ooh all this talking about hospitals gets me excited though, time is going fast! 

Am home today with 2 poorly boys with fever and coughs. Looks like a DVD day to me 


Xx


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## SierraJourney

Good morning ladies! Today's adventure: waking up to baby hiccups! I thought I had felt them one other time, but it was definite this morning---and DH was even able to feel them! Soooooooo cute!


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## Kellen

Good Morning Everyone!

Our LO woke her daddy up this morning by rhythmically kicking along to the song that was playing via our radio alarm clock. It was adorable. He was semi-awake and I was snuggled up to his back. :)

Apparently I'm mad at my MIL? I missed two of her phone calls and this means I'm angry... according to her. She called last night at 10pm to wish me a Happy Belated Birthday and I didn't pick up... mainly because I'd been asleep since 9. lol So she called my husband in tears saying how I was angry at her because I didn't call back about my 24hr stomach bug (I was throwing up and you expect me to call you?). I just find the whole situation amusing and ridiculous. I guess I'll call her this afternoon just to be nice. However people need to figure out that we live in a different time zone. Just because it is 7 at your house doesn't mean it is 7 at mine... It means it is 10 and I am most certainly asleep.


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## SierraJourney

Oh goodness Kellen! If my MIL thought I was angry at her every time I ignored her phone call, then I'd be "angry" all of the time! lol I ignore her phonecall (and a lot of peoples) ALL of the time! haha. . .especially if it's close to my bedtime! Sometimes I even look at my phone in front of DH and see that it's his mom and HE tells me to ignore it! lol I hope your DH set her straight. . .my goodness---give a pregnant lady a break! :)

Soooo cute about your little girl kicking away. . . :)


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## helena

Oh I love the fact our phone tells us who is ringing...I always ge DH to pick up or am "in the bath"... "putting the kids to bed"...


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Oh I love the fact our phone tells us who is ringing...I always ge DH to pick up or am "in the bath"... "putting the kids to bed"...

haha--I love that. I might use those. . .especially once the baby is born! ;)


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## Midnight_Fairy

ouch baby was pushing on a nerve earlier, I felt like a cripple!!


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## DragonflyWing

Hello all- glad to see all your updates! I haven't felt any hiccups yet (aside from my own almost every day lol- babies kick me in the diapraghm and give me hiccups), but the babies were kicking hard up by my ribs last night for a good 20 minutes. Each one made my hand jump...unfortunately, DH wasn't home to feel it. He has felt some minor wiggling, but he hasn't felt a good strong kick yet.

We have house guests this week! DH's friends from Denmark came to visit with their little 2 year old son. He seems like a lovely child, but he speaks equal parts Danish and English, and combined with the standard 2 year old babble, I can't understand anything he says! I feel really bad when I have to ask one of his parents to translate every time he says something. 

The mother is DH's friend from college, and she's originally from here. They own some land here, and plan to move back after they've had all their children (the maternity/paternity benefits in Denmark are a lot better than they are in the US- mother and father both get a year off paid with each child!). They are basically using our house as their home base for their visit- they're going to be seeing a lot of family and doing day trips, so at least we don't have to entertain them 24/7! It saves them $$ on a hotel, and it gave me an excuse to force myself to clean the house a bit :)

My only complaint is that their little boy wakes up every morning at 5-6am and yells, screams, and bangs on the floor all morning (they are staying in the spare room right above my bedroom), so I'm not getting much sleep. LOL right when I get up to go to work at 8, they are going back down for a nap. Wish I could do the same!


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## wamommy

SO cute about the baby kicks, Kellen, and the hiccups Sierra!! I haven't felt hiccups yet, but baby sure has been more active. I can only imagine what a circus it would feel like without anterior placenta! Kellen, maybe you have a little dancer in there :D

As for MIL being angry, she'll get over it! Are these babies her first grandchildren? My DH's aunt calls him and likes to talk for an hour about absolutely nothing, and he puts her off a lot. One day she said to him, "I just don't have anyone else to talk to, except the roaches." (she lives in Florida where bugs are a huge problem) I felt AWFUL! Maybe she's just really lonely?

I'm off to bake a couple loaves of pumpkin bread. There's a program in my church where we couple up and visit people who are sick or elderly, and I always like to bring a sweet snack :D I hope you're all having a wonderful day!


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## wamommy

OHHH, and BTW, happy 23 weeks everybody!!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---that is soooo nice of you to bring them a treat!


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## Kellen

I hate the bugs here in Georgia so I completely sympathize with your Floridian aunt.

And nope, this will be the 18th grandchild. I am afraid I have spoiled my MIL. I'm the good DIL who reminds her DH when to call on birthdays, anniversaries and every once in a while just to check up. Normally I answer the phone so for me to leave two voice messages untouched is apparently unconscionable. We are the last of either set of siblings to tie the knot and I have kids. My MIL didn't understand why we didn't immediately start trying after getting married. I liked my alone time with DH, but now we are stable and ready to start a family. We will also be 1 of 2 kids not on welfare to support their family. :doh:

LO had hiccups once about a week ago. It was fun. I feel bad for everyone here who has anterior placenta. I would be so stressed if I didn't feel my girl bouncing around. 

That sounds like a nice program, Wamommy. Will they include you on that list once you have your baby? I know a bunch of people at church have offered to make meals and stuff for us after our LO is born. But our congregation is typically older and they are excited to have a 4th baby to add to the nursery. LOL


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## helena

Dragonfly 6am is so normal for me these days...get used to it ;) leas you don't actually have to get up right now. Try and take comfort in the fact you are awake at an ungodly hour but still snuggled in bed :) ..And not having someone shout "milky" at you, like me..or "mummy, I'm hungry, can we have breakfast now?"... How can I ignore pleads of hunger??! Little monkeys. Hehe. After 4 years I am finally used to being awake early. Leaving my bed is still painful, I try and convince them to play or cuddle for a while, but being awake when it's still dark is kind of ok for me now :)

No hiccups here either, though movements are all limited so the placenta is still in the way I am sure. I feel her do a massive kick, but sense it is being intercepted and not hitting the outside layers. I guess that's her kicking the placenta. 
So lovely you OH felt baby kicking his back Kellen.
My 4 year old had his and on my tummy the other day. He looked so excited, and says so be patient, not at all like him. I said to take his hand away and try again later, and he simply said "no, leave it there for ages". But sister wasn't playing. Can't wait until she gives him a big wallop! He will be over the moon.
Flying to the uk tomorrow to visit our familes, can't wait! X


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## DragonflyWing

LOL that's like saying "Get your sleep now, because once the baby comes you won't be sleeping at all!" 

At least when it's my kids I'll have a bond with them- with this kid I'm like "Shut uppppp, sick pregnant lady trying to sleep here!" ;)


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## wamommy

LOL about sleep. My kids are actually night owls. They don't go to bed until around midnight! The plus side is they sleep in until 9:00am :D The DOWN side is that once baby comes I'll have 2 night owls and an early riser, and that won't leave much sleep time for me! Oh well, it's worth it I suppose, or women would never have more than one :haha:

Kellen, my church has amazing programs! I feel lucky to be there. There are a million kids and it's a really family-focused church, so they are all ready and willing to pitch in once the baby comes. I already have an amazing lady setting up meals and "shifts" with my older kids so that I can relax with the new baby once he comes! It's lucky for me, since most of my family lives too far away, or is too busy, to come help out once baby arrives. 

Helena, I hope your DS gets to feel his sister soon! How is it that babies can sense a hand on the tummy and they get very still and shy??


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## helena

Oh wamommy, I couldn't cope with that, it's 7.30 bedtime for my boys. 8 latest. Then they get up 6.30 which is early...but I love having my evenings with them tucked up in bed! New baby will Abe to fit this routine. She has no choice. :)


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## Kellen

I have been productive this morning. It seems like mornings are the only time that I can be productive. Once afternoon hits I'm done for. But it is open enrollment time at work for benefits so now I'll have short term disability (ie paid maternity leave), life insurance, legal council and improved medical. After that I cleared up a bill with the lab by informing them that I do have secondary insurance through my husband. Then I called our auto insurance to see what the hold up was on being approved for car repairs. Apparently all we need to do is take the car to the shop and say: Fix it! And it shall be done... It might not seem like a lot but it took me 2 and a half hours of wading through customer service to get all of that sorted out.

I called my MIL last night to let her know that I'm not angry. Instead I got lecture about how if I were taking the correct prenatal vitamins I wouldn't be tired all the time because she loved being pregnant with her six kids because it gave her boundless energy. I gritted my teeth and smiled, then she had call come in and blessedly hung up.

Last night my mom was able to talk to my grandfather's doctor and have him explain exactly what is happening to my grandpa. In addition to having lung and chest cancer it has also metastasized into the bone, under the skin and in his lymph nodes. On top of this my grandpa has a severe case of emphysema. The lack of oxygen getting to his brain is causing him to have memory lapses. My grandma is setting up hospice today to help make my grandpa more comfortable. He isn't in any pain right now, which I am very thankful for. This is really hard on my mom and I feel each and every one of those 2,600 miles that separates us. Thankfully she will be here for Thanksgiving. My DH is offering to fly me out there, but money is tight and realistically there is nothing I can do for anyone if I was there... besides hugs.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen--I am so sorry about your grandfather! :( My heart goes out to you and your family. . . 

About your MIL---"boundless energy"?!?! Vitamins or not---there is NO boundless energy in pregnancy in my opinion! lol


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## Kellen

I love my MIL but we are complete opposites. She had 6 kids and would have kept going except for the fact that they could barely afford to feed the ones they had. She never had morning sickness with any of her kids, never had a miscarriage, never had sciatica and had boundless energy. This is the reason I dislike talking to her right now. When you hear about those perfect pregnancies... my MIL had 6 of them. 

The other comment from last night that made me laugh was: "Well, back when I was having kids they only recommended vitamins while you were pregnant. Now you'll be taking them afterwards. It was the vitamins that gave me energy. Now I know why I was so tired once the babies were born. So if you keep taking them you should be fine." Seriously? :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness. .. . that just made my morning. :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

Happy 23 weeks ladies!


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## Kellen

Last night I fell asleep watching a movie in bed with DH. When I woke up at a quarter to eleven the bed was cold and there was no DH to be found. So I stumbled out into the kitchen to find him writing a poem. A few years ago he published a book of poems he had been writing since his senior year in high school. It has been a while since the urge to write has come upon him.
After he was done he read the poem to me. It made me cry. It was to our baby girl. DH never thought he would get married or have a family (we didn't meet until he was 34) so this whole pregnancy thing is blowing him away. The poem goes on to say how blessed he feels to be a husband and how being a daddy (not just a father) completes him in ways he never thought possible. He also talks about how he wants to be a roll-model to his daughter even when she doesn't listen.

It was so beautiful and I was crying.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> Last night I fell asleep watching a movie in bed with DH. When I woke up at a quarter to eleven the bed was cold and there was no DH to be found. So I stumbled out into the kitchen to find him writing a poem. A few years ago he published a book of poems he had been writing since his senior year in high school. It has been a while since the urge to write has come upon him.
> After he was done he read the poem to me. It made me cry. It was to our baby girl. DH never thought he would get married or have a family (we didn't meet until he was 34) so this whole pregnancy thing is blowing him away. The poem goes on to say how blessed he feels to be a husband and how being a daddy (not just a father) completes him in ways he never thought possible. He also talks about how he wants to be a roll-model to his daughter even when she doesn't listen.
> 
> It was so beautiful and I was crying.

Awww! That is so touching!! He sounds like such a good guy (and sentimental---which is huge points in my book!) :) I'm so happy for you and your soon-to-be-THREE family. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, that's so sweet! I would have cried too.


Or fallen over in shock that DH had written a poem lol...he's not into poetry.


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## Kellen

To look at my DH you would never imagine that he is into poetry. His two favorites are Poe and Frost (quite the dichotomy!) and his styles tend to flow depending on mood. Last night's poem was in quatrain format and felt very Poe-ish (not dark) but it lacked the visual representation that his more Frost-ish works tend to contain. And now I sound like a poetry geek... This is what happens when you're the daughter of an English teacher.

Just found out that my co-worker who went out on maternity leave a couple months ago had a 13lb little girl. I knew she had had a girl and had seen pictures... but 13lbs! No wonder she had an elective C-Section. I'm now threatening my daughter with being grounded for life if she dares to grow that big inside of me.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> To look at my DH you would never imagine that he is into poetry. His two favorites are Poe and Frost (quite the dichotomy!) and his styles tend to flow depending on mood. Last night's poem was in quatrain format and felt very Poe-ish (not dark) but it lacked the visual representation that his more Frost-ish works tend to contain. And now I sound like a poetry geek... This is what happens when you're the daughter of an English teacher.
> 
> Just found out that my co-worker who went out on maternity leave a couple months ago had a 13lb little girl. I knew she had had a girl and had seen pictures... but 13lbs! No wonder she had an elective C-Section. I'm now threatening my daughter with being grounded for life if she dares to grow that big inside of me.

13lbs! Oh my goodness!! Her poor pregnant body!! :( My sister had a 9 lb baby and I thought that was big!!


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## Kellen

My DH was a 9lber and was induced early. I was an 8lber, but I was two weeks late. I am hoping for a nice 6-7lb baby. I wouldn't mind if I were a week early either...


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## wamommy

Kellen, how awesome that DH already has such a great connection with and love for your little girl!! I would have cried too, and then joined Dragonfly on the ground from shock that DH was writing poetry :haha:

I was 9lb10oz and I was only the SECOND biggest of my siblings. My Mom had us all naturally! My poor mom. I can't imagine 13lbs. Both of my girls were right around average weight (7lb4oz and 7lb9oz) and 2 weeks early, so here's hoping #3 follows suit!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Oh my goodness! My biggest was my eldest and he was just 7lb! x


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## Kim2012

Kellen said:


> Last night I fell asleep watching a movie in bed with DH. When I woke up at a quarter to eleven the bed was cold and there was no DH to be found. So I stumbled out into the kitchen to find him writing a poem. A few years ago he published a book of poems he had been writing since his senior year in high school. It has been a while since the urge to write has come upon him.
> After he was done he read the poem to me. It made me cry. It was to our baby girl. DH never thought he would get married or have a family (we didn't meet until he was 34) so this whole pregnancy thing is blowing him away. The poem goes on to say how blessed he feels to be a husband and how being a daddy (not just a father) completes him in ways he never thought possible. He also talks about how he wants to be a roll-model to his daughter even when she doesn't listen.
> 
> It was so beautiful and I was crying.

Aww bless your DH Kellen that was really awesome , I almost cried justreading the post .....I woke up on the sentimental side of the bed today!!!


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## Kim2012

Just when I planned to have a lie-in this saturday LO woke me up at 3:30am with the heaviest 'kick ' so far:haha: .Tossed and turned in bed until 5:15 and started continuously sneezing .....for fear of disturbing DH who had an early shift I moved to the study and tried to work on my project ...LO still kicking non stop enjoying the kicks until ...oh well until headache kicked in!!!!Well now feeling awful and my saturday is doomed....The joys of pregnancy:hugs:

How is everyone doing this weekend?


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## wamommy

Aw, Kim, I hope you can go back down for a nap!! I've found afternoon naps to be absolute heaven, and a rare treat :D

Our weekend is a busy one. I think we're heading out to the pumpkin patch today (as long as it doesn't rain!) and we have my niece coming over for the weekend. She just turned 5, and having 3 little excited girls in the house I better come up with something fun to do!!


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## Kellen

I had a fairly decent Saturday. I lazed about and was kicked for not moving more. Normally I'm up and down, but I just kind of laid in bed and read a book. Our nephew had his 5th birthday party yesterday afternoon/evening so we went over there for a little bit. DH somehow managed to get dragged into being the DD for the adult's party and is just now driving home (3:30am) and he has to be to work for a special event at 8am. Oh well... better him that me. I was invited, but declined as it was at a bar and there is lots of smoking there. Now I can't sleep due to not having DH home and awesome indigestion. I've been eating Tums, but they aren't even knocking it out... :(


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## helena

Hi all, am visiting family in the UK at the moment. Have spent time with the inlaws and my husbands friends so far then later today we're are moving based, over to my family. It's been nice. Lots of eating - eating all the comfort foods we miss from home...crumpets, back sandwiches, Indian mmmm. But I am now fit to burst. Am slightly fed up at feeling massive. People seem to think I am huge already. And they are probably right, but since i am tired I am a bit sensitve about it just now :( 
I love visiting family but I really am a homely person and after a few days I need my own space..so feeling a bit stressed too. 3 days at the inlaws is enough..
Oh listen to me, what a moaner! 

Baby has been wriggling so that's nice. All going well on that front. Glad you all seem well xxx


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## Midnight_Fairy

^ aww I like my own space too! I think anything more than a couple of days would be too much for me!

Hope you are ok xx


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## Jo_Bean

I just spent a week with my in laws, could have killed them all!


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## Kellen

Sounds like in-law homicide was on the plate for most of you this weekend. I am going to resume my position as a couch potato today. Well, and finish a couple pieces of school work that are due tonight.


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena, hang in there! I always miss home when I leave too. How much longer do you have?

Jo_bean, I'm sorry to hear you had a tough week too! What happened?

As for being huge, I AM ENORMOUS! I feel so self conscious and gigantic that I want to cry every morning when I try to find clothes to wear. I wish I could just feel good about my body at this amazing time in my life and ENJOY being pregnant!! ARGH


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## Jo_Bean

Ah nothing, just close confined space with in laws is enough to ale me homicidal! :rofl:


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## DragonflyWing

Had our baby shower with DH's family yesterday- that was fun, but exhausting. My sister in law really went all out on the party...there was a pumpkin theme, so all the food was pumpkin based. Pumpkin french toast, pumpkin cupcakes, pumpkin dip with fruit, etc. Plus, there was a mimosa and bloody mary bar with a ton of awesome garnishes (and non-alcoholic options for me :)). People used fabric paint to decorate bibs and onesies for the babies, and there were a bunch of other fun games. It seemed like everyone had a really nice time. Here was my outfit, in keeping with the theme:
 



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## wamommy

LOVE IT, Dragonfly :D Sounds like a blast! Cute pics too, btw!


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## Kim2012

24weeks today!!! yippeee! Its V-day hoooray!!!:cloud9::happydance:

LO is still at it with the heavy kicks and DH says she is celebrating a milestone!!!! if only she could do that without making my uterus a jumping castle:haha:


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## Kellen

Happy V-Week everyone! I know I feel tons better having gotten to this point. I read somewhere that at 24 weeks our babies now have a 60-75% chance of surviving if they had to be born now.

My little one was super active and hyper yesterday while I was cleaning house. Today she is hardly moving at all. I guess this is her lazy day. Normally she is at least bumping around, but she was really, really active all day long yesterday so I'm not too concerned. She has rolled a couple of times this morning, but didn't feel inclined to kick her daddy awake this morning.


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## SierraJourney

Goodmorning ladies! 

Glad to hear we have so many active babies! :) 

helena--I am also a home-body, and am dreading this weekend where I have a concert and have to sleep in a hotel for two nights. . .I love the comfort of my own home---especially during pregnancy. Before I was pregnant, I didn't mind staying over night in hotels because it was part of being a musician and it was an adventure. . . but now I just want my couch, my bed, and my cat to snuggle with! :haha:

We got the nursery painted this weekend!! Hooray!! It's done in tan with white baseboards and trim. Our bedroom set for baby is done in green and blue and brown with frogs and turtles---so we wanted a neutral wall color. I have to say, it looks GREAT! My sister and her family are moving in to that room this weekend, so I won't be able to get any good pictures until around January when they move out and I can set up baby's stuff! ;) 

Oh---and we got a surprise refund check in the mail the other day---so we went shopping for a dresser/changing table! It's beautiful! I'm so excited! DH says lo's room is going to be way nicer than *OUR* room. :) He says I'm spoiling the baby already. ;) :cloud9:


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> DH says lo's room is going to be way nicer than *OUR* room. :) He says I'm spoiling the baby already. ;) :cloud9:

Isn't that what we're supposed to do :D We don't have an extra room in the house to dedicate to a nursery, so this LO will be shacking up with Mommy and Daddy :haha: Someday we'd love a larger house, especially as our family keeps expanding, but for now we'll have to make due! I don't think I've mentioned before that I also have a 15-year-old step-daughter who lives with us full time, so between her and the little girls, our house is pretty full!

I didn't realize a baby could survive if born at 24 weeks! AWESOME!! I always thought it was 28 weeks, but you're right! Not that I would want the babies to be born right now, but it's SO nice to know that if they were they'd have a fighting chance :)


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## DragonflyWing

Yep, now is when the viability starts to skyrocket. Babies born at 24 weeks have about a 40% chance of survival...higher if they're able to give steroids before the birth. That's versus only a 17% chance at 23 weeks. Then it jumps to 80% at 26 weeks! These next few weeks are BIG growth weeks for our little ones.

My mom had an incompetent cervix, and she wasn't able to carry most of her babies to term. I was born at 28 weeks, my sister was born at 29 weeks, and unfortunately my mom lost a baby at 20 weeks. My youngest sister actually went past her due date, but that was with a cerclage, bed rest for the entire pregnancy, and medications to prevent labor. She was a whopping 9lbs4oz! In contrast, I was 3lbs2oz, and my other sister was 3lbs3oz. 

So I tend to know a lot about preemies. I hope I don't have to apply that knowledge to my own babies!


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## SierraJourney

Wow wamommy---that's a really full house!!


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## helena

I read that baby has a 30% chance of survival if born at 24 weeks? Maybe I am wrong. But most importantly it's the stage at which the hospital will 100%?start to try and save baby if he or she is born. So it's a big land mark! Roll on Thursday xx


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## helena

Anyone else feeling bored? I am thinking this pregnancy went really fast and is now slowing down...wishing I could fast forward 10 weeks...

Heading home tomorrow after a week in the England. It's been nice, give or take a few inlaw stresses. Have eaten lots, seen some really dear friends and family and gave my kids their first (early) Guy Fawkes night since we don't get it in France. They LOVED the bonfire and fireworks and my eldest felt so excited to have a sparkler (while I worried and cringed!).


Cant wait to lay in my own bed though!! :)


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## wamommy

Yes! Me too!! There was so much build-up to the gender/anomoly scan that time seemed to fly by. Now that the next big event is birth, it seems time has screeched to a halt! 

My youngest DD turns 3 next week, so at least I have that to plan for! I can't believe she's 3. It makes me tear up, since she's been my "baby" this long, and it's amazing that she's already getting to be a big kid! I feel awful because I yell at my girls WAY too much. I'm pretty irritable in the evenings, when the fatigue and pains are the worst, and I don't show them nearly enough patience :( I guess that's something I could do between now and the new baby arriving! I vow to try to be more patient and calm by the time baby comes.

What is everyone else doing to speed up the next few weeks?


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## DragonflyWing

I agree that time seems to have slowed to a crawl now...viability is exciting, but I'm ready to get closer to the end!

Sheesh, the babies are kicking so high up that it feels like they're in my chest cavity. Way under my ribs up by my bra strap...how is that possible? I know it's not my imagination, because I can feel from the outside and even see it! I wonder if sitting kind of hunched over pushes my uterus up so they can get their little feet in there. Weird.


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## helena

Am so glad we have christmas to fill the time too.

Oh yes, I want to really try and have some quality time with my boys. I was grouchy and useless when the morning sickness was bad but I think I am doing ok now, though i still wish i ad more energy to run and play. Havent moved beyond a walk in months!
I just keep welling up emotionally and loving them soooooo much..they probably wish I would stop squeezing and hugging them and just play!

Wow dragon they are high! My lady is still low, only twice have I felt her past belly button.


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## Midnight_Fairy

yes I think at 24 weeks hospital will intervene, whereas before they wouldnt support baby to breathe, I think??

Almost at 24weeks ladies :)


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## wamommy

Ohhh, that's the difference. That makes sense! So basically, our Doctor's chart now says "viable"!! That's pretty cool :)


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## wamommy

*HAPPY V-DAY EVERYONE!!*

I can't believe we're here already!! Let the countdown begin!!


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## helena

yaaaaay v day! so excited!! i stretchd bakwards in bed this morning so my tummy was more taught and it was so odd i could feel exactly where baby was laying.

and ticker says we have califlowers! amazing.

swimming today with my son as it is school holidays. i dont have a maternity suit so am just hoping i can keep everything contained in my pre prggo bikini...eek! 
have a happy v day all xx


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## Kellen

Hey all,

I've been out of town for the past couple of days field delivering a training course. It was nice to get out of the office. I had to leave early yesterday as my mom called with news that my grandpa had finally passed away. He was suffering from stage 4 cancer through his body. In the end it was actually a mild heart attack that took him as he slept. At least he didn't feel any pain. Even though this is sad it means that my parent's plans to come stay with us for Thanksgiving are back on track... and they are bringing my grandma with them! I'm pretty excited about that.

It seemed (ironic isn't quite the right word) right that my grandpa should pass away on the day that doctors consider my little girl viable. There is an odd symmetry to the situation that I can appreciate. It was as if the old was giving way to make room for the new. I am sorry that he will never get to meet his first great-granddaughter though.

And yes, everything seems to be slowing down now. I guess our next big milestone will be the third trimester mark! I am still waiting to be able to see individual body parts of my girl poking through. We discovered that she freaks out if I lay on my back and won't stop moving until I roll onto a side. It is quite amusing to watch. We have also firmly decided on a name: Teagen Rae Garey (Last Name) in honor of my grandpa and my maiden name.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---so sorry to hear about your Grandfather. :( I think it is wonderful how you are honoring him through your daughter's name. BEAUTIFUL!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm sorry about your grandfather, Kellen :hugs: That's a lovely name!

Happy V-day everyone :)

Had a measurement scan yesterday, and both babies are measuring 1lb6oz and doing great! I'm so glad that they're staying the same size so far. It means things are working they way they should :D

The doctor wants me to start coming in for non-stress tests starting next week. I think that's a bit excessive...everything I can find says that twins normally start NSTs around week 32 unless there's a problem. Everything has gone fine with us so far, so I don't know why she's being so hypervigilant. I didn't get a chance to ask her any questions, she rushed me out because she had a patient in labor that she had to get to. I will ask her next week...DH is upset and thinks that they're just trying to get more money out of us. It's already very expensive having ultrasounds every 2 weeks...I can't even imagine how much a weekly NST will add to that! Plus, I'm running out of paid time off that I can take from work. The doctor's office doesn't have evening hours, so I always have to take off :(


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## helena

oh kellen, sorry about your sad news. it does seem fitting to pass on v day. life has a funny way of working out sometimes. it really is such a continuous circle..

i love her name. we were considering the same first name but with a different spelling. how funny! but we are still on a short list of about 3 or 4. i thought we had settled on one but now i am not so sure..

dragon, i hear you about the expense of having a baby! in switzerland they ar super vigilant and so expensive...and i only have one baby growing! and my eldest son has been sick a lot and is always visiting various doctors, so pricey! he had a CT Scan a few months ago which came to over 1000 swiss francs. i think thats about the same in dollars. ..for a scan that took minutes! luckily it gave us the results we wanted but still...we have insurance which repays us 80 percent but it is expensive finding the money to pay the bills up front. i swear i get more bills for my pregnancy than doctors visits...everything is billed, every little thing..pah. ah well, i shouldnt moan, it is a great service and keeps us all well.

just found out a close friend just got her bfp. so so happy!


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## Kellen

Dragon - Sorry to hear that the babies are so expensive, but at least you know they are healthy. I have to agree with you though that it seems like your doctor is going a bit over the top since you aren't experiencing any major complications. Bummer about the no more time off either. I'm thankful that I have a flexible work schedule that allows me to make up hours later in the week. I know I'll be using some of my sick time at the end when I have weekly appointments and won't want to pull 10 hour days.

Helena - That is amusing. We were going to go with the traditional spelling of "Teagan" but DH really wants her name to be unique so he proposed we do an "EN" instead of "AN." It works for me!

Now I'm off to two back to back meetings. Oh, boy! At least they are off my work campus and I get to go home right after and avoid traffic.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so sorry to hear about your grandfather passing :hugs: I love the name you've picked for your daughter, though, and I think it's a wonderful way to honor him!

DragonflyWing and Helena, I hear you on the expenses! Insurance is already SO expensive, and then I just got a letter that they DENIED an ultrasound and a blood draw. I have to call today to figure out why. Argh... I think they figure if they make you jump through enough hoops, a percentage of people will just pay it instead of pestering the insurance company until they do. I'm going to pester away, though, because we can't afford to pay all of this out of pocket!

Helena, how was swimming? You're much braver than I Am wearing a bikini! I'm having an especially yucky body day, where I'm feeling so frumpy. I wonder what I could do to snap out of it? My DH says, "you could gain 100 pounds and I wouldn't mind, I'd just think: 'what a big, healthy boy in there!'" Sweet of him to say, but the baby isn't in my butt or arms :dohh:

Jo, you've been so quiet! How are things with you?


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## Jo_Bean

Hi all :wave: 
Sorry to hear about your grandfather Kellen but as someone else said, it's very magical that the circle of life happens right before your eyes and I'm sure if he knew that he had nothing to do with your baby getting to v day, he would have chosen to play that part anyway xxxx

I'm ok wamommy, thanks xx just had a hard week emotionally. We went to see the specialist for an in depth scan this week to see what the outlook of baby's feet is. They confirmed that there is a problem. Although it's positive news in that the other tests don't seem to point to any of the serious disabilities or brain related conditions, so he thinks that it could just mean that she requires a bit of physio or maybe a small operation straight after birth. He seems to think the outlook is very good and that although she might not be an Olympic athlete, she should be able to run around in the playground :D
We will have a few more follow up scans, a physio appointment and some counselling sessions to help us deal with any emotions.

It's all fine and we are fine and dealing with it quite well, it's just emotionally draining. We've not told people in real life yet, apart from close family as it's just easier to not have to update about 50 people every time we have an appointment. Also, I feel very pressured about other people's expectations, so we are being a bit selfish and keeping it to ourselves at the moment.

I'm still here and still checking in :D just haven't had lots to say as I've been quite tired.

We are going to decorate the nursery next week! Very excited xx


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## wamommy

I completely understand, Jo, and I'm glad you're doing well! I'm sorry your week was tough emotionally :( It sounds like the prognosis is good, though, and the doctors are being very thorough. I hope the coming weeks get easier. :hugs: :hugs:


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## Jo_Bean

I really am ok too xx the news was so much better than we feared, so it's just getting used to what happens next really :D


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## helena

((((Jo))))
There is no need to tell anyone else other than family. She is perfect. Just needs help with her feet. Plenty of people won't make the 100m women's finals...So glad all looks ok brain wise. Really that is great, you must have been so relieved. 
It must be draining though. And no doubt an op post birth will be more so. But you will handle it..we have already all signed up for a lifetime of child induced stresses. Your little monkey is just getting hers in early. Maybe you will have it easy in her teens xxx


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## Jo_Bean

Haha! Yes maybe she will be a well behaved teenager! Here's hoping :D

Thanks girls xx


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## SierraJourney

:hugs: Jo. I'm sorry it's been such a tough week! I'm SO glad to hear that everything else looks good. I have heard so many GOOD stories about children born with club feet, then having the surgery and their lives are completely normal after that! I'm sure your daughter will do wonderfully!


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## helena

24 wk check up today. ALl good, baby moving, placenta still anterior but her kicks are getting through. I gained 4 kilos In the last month. Whopper! that's what, 8.8 pounds? Doc said it was a bit high but didnt seem to bothered. 10 kilo in total so far. Seemed ok with that.

Must watch what I eat....(oh dear,pizza in for lunch....).

Doc didn't want to do anything about ovary removal regarding breastcancer if I do have the gene, not yet anyway, said something about increased risk during c section and secondary hemorraging. Which I didn't fancy! Will come back to the test and all the stuff in a year maybe. Happy to ignore for now.

I discussed the whooping cough vaccine but he didn't want to do it. There is no outbreak here so he hadn't much info and got his book out..(bet that will be on the bill Dragon! Lol). He said they aren't 100% sure of the safety in pregnancy, and booster should be given only when the risk of infection outweighs the unknown risk or something, which I guess is the case in the uk at the moment. But maybe for us it will be best if we just get the grandparents boostered before they come to visit our newborn. And we don't go to the uk until after the 2 month jab that baby has.

So that's us. All good, not much being done. Glucose test in 2 weeks, yuk. 

Hope your day is going well xxx


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## DragonflyWing

I've gained about 15 pounds so far, which my doctor seems to think is fine. I guess right now, 3 of that is baby, and about 5 is fluid and larger uterus. I wonder if the remaining 7 is fat! :wacko: I don't seem to have gotten bigger anywhere but in the belly and a little in the boobs, so that's good. Haha I was actually just telling DH the other day that I think my behind is flatter...I don't have as much cushion, and it hurts to sit on hard surfaces. That may also be because my pelvis is starting to separate, ouch!

Jo, sorry you've had an emotionally stressful week :hugs:

Glad everything went well at your 24 week check, helena!


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm glad your appointment went well, and that you don't have to make that difficult decision for a year! Whooping cough is pretty rampant where I live, so I'll be curious what my OB recommends as far as vaccinations. I've already had my step daughter get a booster, since she goes to school every day and has the largest chance of contracting it. I don't know what the policy is for pregnant women here though? Thank you for reminding me to ask!

Ah, weight gain... I've been really struggling with that. Sometimes I want to slap myself and say, "stop obsessing about it!! You're supposed to gain weight!! GEEZ!" I eat a healthy diet and always put the baby's needs above my own weight issues, but that doesn't stop the number on the scale from sending shivers of panic up my spine. Hopefully I can just get over it, already.

I went to the pumpkin patch with my girls yesterday to pick out pumpkins to carve! It was a muddy, rainy mess, but it's supposed to rain all the way until Halloween so we just toughed it out. The kids didn't mind at all, and had a blast. Near the end, after we'd all picked one, my 2-year-old ran up carrying a very small pumpkin in her arms, ready to throw it in the wheelbarrow. "That's much too small to carve, honey... besides you already have one," I said. She laughed and said, "silly, Mommy... This one's for the baby. It's tiny like he is!" My heart melted, and of course we bought the tiny pumpkin!

I hope you are all doing well and have a great weekend :D


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## helena

Oh LOVE the tiny pumpkin incident! What a cutie!!!! Moments like those are so so fantastic aren't they. Such a warm fuzzy feeling! I love being a mummy..when they aren't fighting! Lol. Bless your adorable two year old!! Xxxxx


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## Jo_Bean

That is so cute about the pumpkin!!!

I have my next appointment in 2 weeks with the MW and I'm expecting her to discuss the whooping cough jab with me then. I wasn't ever vaccinated as a child as it was right when they were going through one of their "it's bad to vaccinate" moments. Apparently they have them a lot! Which apparently means I am more in need of it now :( 
As they say it's from 28-36 weeks here, I think I will wait til the new year and see if the fuss has died down. If enough people get it, it's likely one of those things that we don't have to have but I'll see. I don't like the thought of a relatively un tested drug being injected into me when they don't really know the risks to baby at this stage. 

Glad everyone seems to be doing ok. I've not weighed myself, we need a new battery in our scales and I haven't got round to getting one :haha: I think I look like my only weight gain is baby weight but we'll see!


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## helena

Oh but Jo doesnt the fact that 10 babies already died in the uk scare you? I would definitely have it if I was in the uk. My famly are in suffolk and the number of cases ther are really up. Its those first 2 months before baby has their lwn vaccine that scare me. I will be making my parents have a booster so they don't bring any germs with them when they visit.


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## Jo_Bean

It does definitely, but then when I live there have been no reported deaths at all to my knowledge.

I'm just really confused about it. I will probably end up having it, but as they say you have to be over 28 weeks here, I was just going to wait 'til the later part of that to suss it out and do as much research as possible. I have read so many things about why we shouldn't have it, I need to balance it all out in my mind and then make a decision.

I have at least a month before they will even give it to me, so at least I have time to decide.


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## SierraJourney

Whooping cough? I haven't even heard of that being a problem here in the US. Does anyone know? I was vaccinated as a child, but I didn't know we needed a booster now? Or is this just a UK thing?


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra, it's just that there has been a slight increase in cases of whooping cough and whooping cough related deaths in the UK. We've all been advised from 28 weeks to get a jab for it and in most cases for the flu jab too (according to the news reports)


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## DragonflyWing

I had whooping cough in 1995, and so did my (then) 2 month old sister. It's REALLY bad for infants to get that...she was in the hospital. I think you're immune if you've had it, right? I haven't heard any recommendations in the US for pregnant women to get the vaccine.


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## Kellen

SierraJourney said:


> Whooping cough? I haven't even heard of that being a problem here in the US. Does anyone know? I was vaccinated as a child, but I didn't know we needed a booster now? Or is this just a UK thing?

There is actually a huge Whooping Cough outbreak in the US. In 2012 there have been over 18,000 reported cases of Whooping Cough in the US, which is the largest outbreak since the 1950s. New information has recently been released by the CDC advising pregnant women to speak with their medical providers about getting the shot before birth. It has been deemed safe and could potentially give your LO partial immunity once born. Otherwise your baby has to wait 2 months before they can get the shot. My parents already got their boosters and DH is getting his next month. Next week when I have my midwife appointment I am going to ask her if she advises it now because I will go get it. https://latino.foxnews.com/latino/h...en-should-get-whooping-cough-shot-panel-says/

In other news things are going pretty good around here. Still sad (for me) that my grandpa is gone, but it is slowly sinking in. My grandma decided to go out and buy a new car LOL... and apparently it will be mine once she is gone. I am excited about November because my parents will be visiting for nearly two weeks. So yesterday I unpacked two boxes in the office (which we are converting into a spare bedroom - yes, we've lived in this house since last December and still aren't fully unpacked).


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## SierraJourney

Oh wow. . . I'll ask my midwife about it! Thanks ladies!!


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## wamommy

Ah, Kellen, I'm sorry it's hard for you dealing with your Grandpa's passing :( It's too funny about your Grandma's new car, though! My Grandma did the same thing when my grandpa passed years ago. She went out and bought a red sports car...lol. I thought she was the coolest "old lady" EVER when I was younger.

How was everyone's weekend? What are everyone's plans for Halloween? It's not a big deal in the UK is it? I relish Halloween, because as soon as it's over we start getting pummeled with Christmas commercials on tv, music in stores, etc. I LOVE christmas, but it's like they DRAG it out to make more money, lol.


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## helena

We were ging to just have a Halloween themed family dinner. I bought plates and balloons all ready. But then my two year old got scared of some pumpkins on a DVD my 4 year old was watching and he keeps freaking out saying he is scared of everything. Even the sofa earlier!? At bedtime he is saying he is scared, refusing to sleep. And he has always been a great sleeper. So it looks like my Halloween plates will need to wait until next year to save any further trauma!..

Am hoping it's not the pumpkins, but in fact just his latest word...he may realize it affects me and I come running!? But we wll see. A toddler who has always slept brilliantly, who wont go to bed all of a sudden is not needed at this stage in the game, with just over 3 months to go!....


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## MileyMamma

Hey everyone I'm due on the 18th feb but will be having a c section some point at week 39 :) we're having a pink bundle!


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## wamommy

Heya Miley :D Grats on team pink!! Seems like February definitely belongs to team pink!

My DDs are finally asleep, and I'm sitting down to send some pics to grandma from DD's b-day today. It was a great day! She seemed to really enjoy it :) I made a cake with Dora on it, who she is obsessed with. We also carved pumpkins! Well, I carved them while the kids ran around high on sugar :dohh: I'm exhausted, and simply can't believe it's been 3 years since she was born. Here I am starting it all again! I can't wait to get to know the little person who is going to join our family in a few months, since getting to know my DDs has been life's greatest joy.

Sorry, feeling hormonally sappy tonight! Here's a pic of our pumpkins! (I later carved the baby's pumpkin, and I'll include it tomorrow :haha:)
 



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## Jo_Bean

Wow!!! Those pumpkins are amazing!! 

The most I've ever done (and that was once) is put 2 holes for eyes and a bigger hole for a mouth! I foud it so hard to cut through!

Miley - welcome! Another :pink:! Wow! Congrats :D


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## helena

Hi Miley! I am due 14 th feb with my pink bundle but think I am scheduled for a c section at 38weeks +1 day, 1st feb. just waiting for confirmation from the hospital. Its so exciting!
Love the pumpkins wamommy, great! And glad your baby had a great birthday :)


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## helena

Anyone else finding their bump is just getting in the way now? And a bit uncomfy? I just feel like my tummy is absolutely stuffed all the time I try and do any cleaning, bend down, put my kids shoes on, carry shopping etc etc. even sitting down my tummy just feels so full. Like a huge rock is in there. Maybe baby has had a growth spurt.?.that would fit with last months massive 8.8 lb weight gain...(4kilo) Am really feeling like its getting in the way when sitting or bending. So uncomfortable. And impractical!
Just hoovered and mopped and now just feel so heavy and bloated. If I stand for any period of time my belly feels so heavy, like it needs support. Like a massive bra or something!? Lol. Wow, how will I cope in tri 3?!

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_C4807D86.jpg. Sorry it's sideways...can't adjust on the iPad..and logging onto PC seems just too much like hard work post mop!

Just out of curiosity I looked back a my bump with DS1 and I think this little lady is definitely up higher. Though I feel her low. This was my son at 24 weeks https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_16333860.jpg


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## sleeping bubs

Hey all sorry for been awol again!! Everything going ok with baby at moment got flu jab on Thursday and I will be having the whooping cough one later too. Now 24wks and baby is moving constantly lol got physio nxt week fir my hip as it is playing up. Got a growth scan on 23rd Nov 

Hope everyone is ok


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## SierraJourney

helena---YES! definitely in the way now. . .I grunt and groan just putting on my work socks in the morning! :) And I can't stand long without the bottom of my belly aching---and my. . .ahem. . .lady parts aching. . .:blush:

Welcome Miley!! :flower:


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## SierraJourney

Bummers. . .I had an appointment this morning with my midwife (just a checkup) and it got canceled because she was delivering a baby. I'm happy for whoever is having a baby right now, but sad I won't get to hear my little boy's heartbeat today. :( They rescheduled it for tomorrow. . .


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## DragonflyWing

Definitely looks higher this time, helena! And yes, the bump is definitely getting in the way now! Last night I went to my favorite pizza parlor, and I could just barely fit in the booth lol...my belly was pressed against the table, and it was rather uncomfortable. And my bump will probably double or triple in size by the end! I can't even imagine :wacko:

Hello Miley- congrats on team pink :)

I don't know what's going on with me, but I've been violently sick several times over the past few days. I don't feel nauseated, but after I eat, my gag reflex is supercharged. All it takes is one yucky smell, or even the *thought* of something gross, and GAG- I have to sprint to the bathroom. Last night it was so bad that I almost didn't make it to the bathroom, and I had to throw myself down in front of the toilet, really hurt my knees! It's so different from morning sickness...with that, I felt nauseous all the time, but I didn't throw up very often. When I did, it was just a little bit, and I immediately felt better. These episodes feel like I'm turning inside out and I vomit until there's nothing left. I don't even feel better afterward, just shaky and sick. It's terrible! :(


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## helena

Oh dragonfly, that soudns awful! Hoping it's just that a baby is sitting in the wrong place or squashing something tha can be unsquashed when he or she moves!...

It is almost funny getting wedged in places already isn't it. I had that in my inlaws spare room the other week. If the door was open iwould get stuck between it and the bed. Good job I won't be there again before baby is here - how I Would cope in 3 months I have no idea! Lol .

Enjoy the appointment tomorrow Sierra, shame today was cancelled :(


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## wamommy

Helena, your bump looks beautiful! It does look higher this time :D 

Sierra, sorry your appointment got cancelled, but I'm glad they could reschedule for so soon! I have an appointment tomorrow too, so we'll have to compare notes!

Dragonfly, that sounds like NO FUN. I sometimes get nausea like that right after I eat a lot, especially if I took my prenatals, but it passes in 5 minutes or so with no vomiting. What your describe sounds so hard :( I hope it's a passing phase, or like Helena said, the babies are just squishing something they shouldn't be squishing!

As for my tummy getting in they way, it finally is! I went to a chili cook-off the other night that was pretty crowded, and must have belly-bumped 10 people on accident. I can't imagine how big I'll be at the end! 

Sleeping bubs, glad to here all is well with you and baby!


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> Definitely looks higher this time, helena! And yes, the bump is definitely getting in the way now! Last night I went to my favorite pizza parlor, and I could just barely fit in the booth lol...my belly was pressed against the table, and it was rather uncomfortable. And my bump will probably double or triple in size by the end! I can't even imagine :wacko:
> 
> Hello Miley- congrats on team pink :)
> 
> I don't know what's going on with me, but I've been violently sick several times over the past few days. I don't feel nauseated, but after I eat, my gag reflex is supercharged. All it takes is one yucky smell, or even the *thought* of something gross, and GAG- I have to sprint to the bathroom. Last night it was so bad that I almost didn't make it to the bathroom, and I had to throw myself down in front of the toilet, really hurt my knees! It's so different from morning sickness...with that, I felt nauseous all the time, but I didn't throw up very often. When I did, it was just a little bit, and I immediately felt better. These episodes feel like I'm turning inside out and I vomit until there's nothing left. I don't even feel better afterward, just shaky and sick. It's terrible! :(


Dragon--I had that exact thing happen to me last weekend! TMI, but I was vomiting so violently that I wet myself! :blush: DH was in the other room and kept asking me if I was okay because I just couldn't STOP vomiting---until I was completely empty! And it was FAST! Like you, I had to run to the toilet. Thankfully, it only happened last weekend---I'm sorry you are experiencing it several times! I thought mine was related to acid reflux because I had quite a bit of it that night. . . ? I hope it stops soon for you!!


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks! I hope it stops too...it started on Friday, and I haven't felt quite right since then. I'm wondering if I have a stomach bug or something. I'm trying to eat bland, simple foods today like toast and rice, and drink lots of water and juice. Eating normally has NOT been working out well, as evidenced by the pizza debacle last night ;) Hopefully a day or two of babying my stomach will get rid of it.


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## Kellen

Sorry to hear about the violent vomiting. Oh how glamorous pregnancy has turned out to be...

I just texted DH a minute ago because our LO is having hiccups so violent that she is causing my belly to bounce into the edge of my desk. It is hilarious. Thankfully my cube-mate's wife has been pregnant twice so he isn't freaked out by the really random things that I saw or do.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> Sorry to hear about the violent vomiting. Oh how glamorous pregnancy has turned out to be...
> 
> I just texted DH a minute ago because our LO is having hiccups so violent that she is causing my belly to bounce into the edge of my desk. It is hilarious. Thankfully my cube-mate's wife has been pregnant twice so he isn't freaked out by the really random things that I saw or do.

That's sooo cute!!! :)


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## SierraJourney

I'm so angry! :growlmad: I think I mentioned here before that the old owners of our house covered up a lot of mold growth in the basement. We tried to get them to pay for it, but long story short, they are in another country and there is nothing we can do to get them to pay. So, we are paying for this HUGE bill to basically gut our entire finished basement in order to get rid of all of the mold. It's a specialty company that is doing this---it's an environmental company with great reviews. They started on Monday---basically they creative this tunnel of plastic that keeps the house clean in the area where they are bringing out all of the walls and such (because they have to take the walls from the basement downstairs and bring them upstairs and out the front door)---so that is all protected. Meanwhile, they turn the heat off during the day so the mold spores and drywall dust, etc, doesn't come through the heating ducts into the rest of the house. This way, it is perfectly safe for us to live there while they are doing it (and we can turn the heat back on when we return from work in the evenings). It's all been going so well until we got back from work yesterday---apparently the crew was left there to take care of everything without the supervisor. . .and from what it looks like, they did NOT turn off the heat---because there is thick dust over EVERYTHING. I just want to cry. . .seriously, it is thick white dust all over my floors, my dining room table, the baby's newly painted nursery :cry: , our bedroom, kitchen counters, etc. There isn't anything that hasn't been touched by this dust---and I'm assuming since it came from their work in the basement that it also has mold spores in it. We called the company last night but no one answered nor returned our call. They are working again this morning, but DH & I both had to go to work. . .we left them a message early this morning, but still no call. DH is in a meeting, so he's going to call or visit the house after his meeting to try to get it taken care of. . . but seriously. . . I'm a mess. . .this is my HOME. . .we were trying to get the environmental people to clean up the basement so I wouldn't be exposed to the mold---but now it's EVERYWHERE in my house! :( I don't even know if it's safe for me to be there anymore. . .and our poor kitty is walking all in it on the floor and everything. . . I don't even know what can be done to fix it---I'm assuming a professional cleaning company and then a professional furniture cleaning company to clean all of the cloth couches and stuff. . . We're going to try to make them pay for it---- but this shouldn't be happening! :( :growlmad: :nope:


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## DragonflyWing

That's terrible! I would be SO mad too!! I really hope they pay to clean up their mess...I'm sorry you have to deal with this. :hugs:

Went for my first non-stress test this morning. It went fine, took about 30 minutes. Both babies passed, and were dancing around the whole time. The nurse was holding the monitors in place so she wouldn't lose the heartbeats, and I could see her whole arm jumping because they were kicking the monitors! :haha: 

I talked to the doctor about why she thinks I need to go for NSTs weekly starting so early, and told her how it's hard for me to take so much time off from work...but no dice. She thinks the weekly tests are necessary, and wouldn't budge. Hmph. So now I have to take about 6 hours off from work in every pay period...and I only accumulate 7 hours in that amount of time. I'm barely going to be keeping up, and if something happens where I have to take more time, I'm not going to have it.

She also said that starting at 28-30 weeks, I'll have to go twice weekly. :wacko: I don't know how I'm going to make this work.


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> That's terrible! I would be SO mad too!! I really hope they pay to clean up their mess...I'm sorry you have to deal with this. :hugs:
> 
> Went for my first non-stress test this morning. It went fine, took about 30 minutes. Both babies passed, and were dancing around the whole time. The nurse was holding the monitors in place so she wouldn't lose the heartbeats, and I could see her whole arm jumping because they were kicking the monitors! :haha:
> 
> I talked to the doctor about why she thinks I need to go for NSTs weekly starting so early, and told her how it's hard for me to take so much time off from work...but no dice. She thinks the weekly tests are necessary, and wouldn't budge. Hmph. So now I have to take about 6 hours off from work in every pay period...and I only accumulate 7 hours in that amount of time. I'm barely going to be keeping up, and if something happens where I have to take more time, I'm not going to have it.
> 
> She also said that starting at 28-30 weeks, I'll have to go twice weekly. :wacko: I don't know how I'm going to make this work.

Thanks Dragon---wow, that does seem really excessive. Is there any chance you can do it after work hours? 

Soooo cute that the babies were moving so much! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Unfortunately, no. I could get the NSTs done after work, but I have to see the doctor afterward, and she leaves at 4:30. That means the latest NST appointment I can make is 3pm :(. I'm going to try making them as early in the morning as possible...if I can do it at 8am, I can get back to work by 10 and only miss an hour. But every other week I have to have an ultrasound, too, so that adds at least an hour on if they can schedule them right after each other.


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## SierraJourney

Wow. . .that's just so crazy. . . :( But those two little cuties are SO worth it! :)


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## DragonflyWing

They're definitely worth it :D, it's just going to be interesting trying to juggle all this without jeopardizing my job/going broke :wacko:


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## wamommy

Sierra, I would be LIVID. I'm so sorry they were so irresponsible. Hopefully they will pay for the clean up (they should have to!!) so you don't have to deal with it. Argh, I'm angry on your behalf, and know that if it were me I would be going back and forth between tears and rage! Keep us updated.

DragonflyWing, I hope you can find a way to keep up with the appointments! Did the Dr tell you why she though so many tests were necessary? It's GREAT that they are so thorough, but I can understand the strain it's putting on your work and pocketbook. If only your Dr was open later! Mine is open until 6pm, which is awesome.

Speaking of my Dr, I have a check-up in an hour, so it's time to get moving!


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## DragonflyWing

She said that the risk of preterm labor is much higher with twins, and it's important that they monitor me so they can try to stop it if it happens. I'm not 100% convinced, since an NST is not the only way to monitor for pre-term labor. In fact, that's not even the main purpose of the test (which is to check that the babies are tolerating their environment well and are not in distress). I haven't had any contractions, not even BH, haven't had any bleeding, no loss of fluid, no cramps...I really feel like this is excessive, but she was just adamant. I would never want to do anything to risk my babies, so I'm going to go along with it...but I'm going to grumble the whole way ;)


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## helena

Oh I guess being over cautious is better than them not caring dragon? Any chance of transferring to someone who is open later if yo have to?!..its tough on you though.
Oh Sierra I am sorry about your dust - hope you get through to the company soon. They should pay for you to all stay in a hotel while they clear up their mess!!! Poor you, that's terrible. We have and a lot of builders in over the last year and I know how much the mess can get you down. Especially if they should have taken measures to stop it! And the mess and constant plaster dust we have everywhere isn't as awful as mold. I assume there is no risk for baby, but it can't be good for your breathing. Hope you don't have asthma or anything to contend with too?...xx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks everyone.. . We heard back from the supervisor. They are testing the air in our house, cleaning everything, and installing HEPA air filters that will clear up the dust/air. He does not believe the dust is from the tearing down going on in the basement---but he thinks that since the house is really old (1930's), that it stirred up the old house dust and the got distributed through the heating ducts. But again, they are testing to make sure. He said he does not think there is any risk to me or the baby, but feels really badly and says those HEPA filters are really loud---so he told us he will pay for a hotel for us for the night and that we should get a really nice one. :) 

They will be all complete with the mold removal/cleaning sometime tomorrow and we should be back to "normal" again. They take lab samplings to make sure all of the mold it taken care of and we will get those results back next week---but at least all of the work will be completed. 

So, all in all, I'm still upset about it, but I think they are taking the correct measures to remedy the issue. (We'll see how I really feel once I return home and see how good their cleaning job is! :haha: ) (I'm a really thorough cleaner!) :) 

I'm not looking forward to a hotel tonight, but at least it will be a nice one, and DH is looking forward to it. . . 

On another note, I just got back from my midwife appointment---baby is measuring just right, he sounds really healthy on the doppler with a heartrate of 140bpm. :) I got a prescription for a breast pump so my insurance will pay for that---so I'm going to get one this week! YAY! :) And I gained. . . . 9lbs!!!!! :( :( :( 9 lbs in four weeks. . .I'm a bit deflated about that. They like to see a 4-6 pound gain. . .so it's a bit high. . . She said overall, I've only gained 18lbs, so I'm doing okay, but I still think that is high. So, I'm going to watch a bit more closely how many sugary snacks I eat (I was eating ice cream every night for a while there. .. which might be part of the problem :blush: ) I'm not sure what that translates to for UK stones---but am I just gaining way more than the rest of you? Or are you all around that amount?

But overall, I'm very happy that my little boy is so healthy! :) I go for another appointment at the end of November (that's also when I do my glucose test. . .fun fun), then after that, I start going every two weeks for my appointments! My next ultrasound is at week 30---to check to see if my low lying placenta has changed positions or not. All-in-all, a good appointment!

wamommy, how did yours go?!


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## wamommy

:rofl: It seems like this month is all of our big weight gain months!! I've gained 8 pounds this month!! :blush: It looks like Helena, Sierra and I all gained about the same, so maybe it's a totally normal growth-spurt month? I'm at 16 pounds total now, and the Dr says that's perfectly normal, but I about passed out when I saw the number on the scale. It looks like I'll be watching what I eat a bit more! 

Baby seems great, heart beat of 158. I had my thyroid levels checked again, and should get those results tomorrow. Also, I'm supposed to go see a cardiologist :( My ob doesn't feel comfortable handling my heart thing, and wants me to wear one of those monitors that creates a 24-hour record of your heart rate. I know it's standard procedure, but just hearing "cardiologist" makes me a bit sad. I've been pretty health-conscious since having cancer as a teen, and I hate to think something is wrong with my body. Ah well, better safe than sorry!!

I hope everyone has a great Halloween! It's pouring rain here, but the show must go on! IT looks like we'll be breaking out the umbrellas.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> :rofl: It seems like this month is all of our big weight gain months!! I've gained 8 pounds this month!! :blush: It looks like Helena, Sierra and I all gained about the same, so maybe it's a totally normal growth-spurt month? I'm at 16 pounds total now, and the Dr says that's perfectly normal, but I about passed out when I saw the number on the scale. It looks like I'll be watching what I eat a bit more!
> 
> Baby seems great, heart beat of 158. I had my thyroid levels checked again, and should get those results tomorrow. Also, I'm supposed to go see a cardiologist :( My ob doesn't feel comfortable handling my heart thing, and wants me to wear one of those monitors that creates a 24-hour record of your heart rate. I know it's standard procedure, but just hearing "cardiologist" makes me a bit sad. I've been pretty health-conscious since having cancer as a teen, and I hate to think something is wrong with my body. Ah well, better safe than sorry!!
> 
> I hope everyone has a great Halloween! It's pouring rain here, but the show must go on! IT looks like we'll be breaking out the umbrellas.


Phew! At least I'm not alone in the weight gain! haha! I'm sorry to hear about the cardiologist, wamommy---that's rough. . .but hopefully it'll be a one-time thing and everything will go well and you won't have to worry about it again! And---I didn't know you had cancer as a teen!? I did too! I was 17 at the time and had Hodgkin's lymphoma. . .I went through chemo, radiation, surgeries--the whole bit. I didn't know we had that in common!


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## DragonflyWing

I've gained about 10-12 pounds so far, but I started out overweight, so take that with a grain of salt :). I had been up to about 15, but my recent vomiting issue made me lose 3 pounds in the last 5 days.

The doctor had me switch from ranitidine to prevacid for reflux- she thinks that could be the cause of the vomiting. The acid can irritate your gag reflex, apparently. We'll see how that goes. I feel fine so far today.


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## Jo_Bean

I've not weighed myself! I might find out next week as I have MW appointment and they might weigh me. I was overweight anyway. But my skinny friend has already put on about 21lbs and she's a couple of weeks behind me :shrug: I don't think there's any way of knowing whether you will get massive or not! I feel pretty massive but I feel like the rest of me has stayed the same, just the belly getting bigger.


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## DragonflyWing

Same here- seems like my belly and boobs are the only parts that have grown. Once in a while it feels like the thighs of my jeans are getting tighter, but that may just be because I'm uncomfortable in any restrictive clothing.


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Phew! At least I'm not alone in the weight gain! haha! I'm sorry to hear about the cardiologist, wamommy---that's rough. . .but hopefully it'll be a one-time thing and everything will go well and you won't have to worry about it again! And---I didn't know you had cancer as a teen!? I did too! I was 17 at the time and had Hodgkin's lymphoma. . .I went through chemo, radiation, surgeries--the whole bit. I didn't know we had that in common!

Wow, Sierra!! I didn't realize that either. I had thyroid cancer at 15, but it had spread to 14 lymph nodes and all of my parathyroids. It came back once, but has been gone for about 16 years :D That's why they're so concerned about my thyroid levels, since I depend completely on medication for it. I'm so sorry you had to go through it too! Hodgkin's lymphoma is scary! I'm so glad you're alright now. Do they need to take any precautions with you during pregnancy, or are you totally back to normal now?


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## Jo_Bean

Girls, I just wanted to say how amazing that is, that you both went through such awful times and are here to share such wonderful times with us!

All this time and we've never heard you talk about it at all, you hear people moaning about a lot less worse things on this website! It makes me feel humble that you just get up and get on with life and still have a bloody good laugh doing it!

So proud and inspired by you both xx :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Aww, thanks Jo! :hugs: 

wamommy---wow---that's scary that you had it with your thyroid! No wonder they are keeping such a close eye on you! 

I don't really have to take any extra precautions. I'm pretty much back to normal! There was some concern that I may not be able to get pregnant because of the treatment I went through (it was pretty new and advanced treatment that hadn't been studied to see whether girls could get pregnant after having it)---but here I am and he's one healthy LO! :flower: There was also concern that when my breasts grew with pregnancy that part of them wouldn't grow (because of radiation I had to that area)---but they've been growing like weeds and look pretty symetrical to me! :haha: So, they don't worry much about it. I see an oncologist yearly, have all of the loads of tests done, but they don't see any harm to baby or me during pregnancy due to the cancer. :thumbup:

Jo---you'll have to let us know how much you've gained. Like you, I don't feel I've really gained anything anywhere except my belly. .. and people even comment how I don't "look" pregnant from behind. . .haha. . .but 18 lbs has got to have gone somewhere! :)

And Dragon--I'm very jealous of your 10-12 pound gain. . .I hope I slow down gaining soon!!


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## helena

Oh Yes Sierra, my weight gain this month was 8.8 lbs. so don't worry. I gained 10 kilos so far. About 22 lbs...ah well.
I also have a sugary treat each evening..a mars usually, but so what..I eat well the rest of the day and after feeling like I have a rock in my stomach all day and looking after everyone else I decided I deserve it. 
I think I may have gained a bit of weight on my bum...not heaps, not noticeable to anyone but me, I don't think!!, but my knickers aren't fitting the same and keep wriggling down...lots of unladylike-like pulling them up going on, it's like they can't quite fit around my backside as they once did! Hehe...or maybe it's my tumble dryer being too hot (I can hope! Lol). Breasfeeding is fantastic for weight loss. I lost all my 40ish lbs / 20kilo with DS1 in 3 months (and he himself was only 6.6 lbs / 3k of those!). I am so determined to get breasfeeding to work for me this time for purely selfish reasons! Lol.

Is it not a little early to be getting your pump Sierra? Sorry, not meaning to be dishing out advice , but don't you pay per day for it? So you would be paying from the day you collect it...unless ofcouse your insurance covers 100 percent of the cost and then I guess it doesn't matter! Ours only covers 80 % I think you see. Maybe you could order it to be collected after birth? Even call them when you have the baby, since it takes a couple of days for milk to arrive.
when I went in to the pharmacy for ours they just had to call their supplier and it was delivered the next day. Super fast, since I guess some people need one urgently, like the medicines. Just a thought though. And different countries are different of course, so do feel free to tell me to shut it :)

Seems we have some tough ladies in this group! Glad you are all well xx

Nothing so dramatic for me but I do suffer a condition called Lichen Sclerosis (i hate to ue the word "disease".. Urgh) which affects my nether regions. Had to have an operation in 2005 as I had shrunk and changed physically down there and was unable to have sex..it's a very odd thing. Thought for a while I wouldn't have babies but here I am with 3. So lucky!!


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## helena

Moan required. Only small one. Feelng really rather irritated by the inlaws.we mentioned last night we might be having baby on the first of feb. But the it is not confirmed. Right away they are online looking at flights and suggesting their visit dates. And of course the dates are longer than I want, because of cheap flights. Now I don't give a fig about cheap flights, i want to tell them specific dates they can come. Basically we invite them for specific dates, not them suggesting dates. I felt so stressed out and annoyed last time with them here.
Basically they can come stay with the boys for 5 days while I am in hospital then leave the day after I get out as is need a week alone to leak milk and sit in pjs. They can see baby every day if they want in hospital. 
We are going to offer to pay their flights if it means them not staying an extra 3 days to get cheaper flights...but then someone will be offended. I mean, how do we explain that we don't want them here an extra couple of nights even if it is a lot cheaper.....will mention leaky boobs and hope they get the idea...I can't very well say I just find them so annoying I was in tears last time and can't face that again!...

Oh why is it all so complicated?


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## Kellen

Hello Gals!

I feel very awed and humbled by those of you whom have had to battle serious health conditions and are now sharing you bodies with an extra life form. 

Can you believe that we only have 2 (or 3 depending on which calendar you go by) weeks left before we move into the third trimester? I am always slightly shocked when I actually think about how far we all have come and yet how far we still have to go. I read that at week 28 there is a 90% chance of survival outside the womb. Each day makes me feel that much closer to my girl and knowing that she has a fighting chance.

I stepped on the scales this morning and it looks like I've gained about 18-20lbs from the beginning. I haven't really been eating sugary stuff or going overboard with carbs so I don't know. Everyone keeps telling me I'm tiny (I feel huge!) and that I've only just begun to show. Looking in a mirror seems to say that all the weight is centered in my belly and breasts. We'll see how our appointment goes next Tuesday. It is our gestational diabetes test. Has anyone yet to drink the dreaded sugary drink yet?

I spoke with my HR person yesterday about FLMA, pay and all that lovely stuff. Which leads me to ponder: Dragon - how long have you worked for your company? If it is over a year they are required by federal law to grant you non-paid time off for any doctors appointments during your pregnancy without fear of losing you job. Thankfully my year with my organization is two weeks before my due date. My HR person explained that if I had been here for a year they would have to be taking time off from my 12 weeks of leave every time I go see the midwife whether or not I make up the time later.


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## Jo_Bean

I completely understand where you are coming from Helena x is your hubby on board with the shorter visit? Because we always disagree about his parents so if you can get hubby agreeing with you then that is half the battle!

I would just tell them straight what dates they are invited for. If they bring up the flights, tell them that you are willing to pay. Does it really matter if you offend them? Most people wouldn't tolerate them being there at all so soon, so try not to stress about it too much Helena, if you book it all up now, then that is sorted. Job done, not to be discusse again until they come. 

You have the right to put your foot down about this x


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## Kellen

helena said:


> Moan required. Only small one. Feelng really rather irritated by the inlaws.we mentioned last night we might be having baby on the first of feb. But the it is not confirmed. Right away they are online looking at flights and suggesting their visit dates. And of course the dates are longer than I want, because of cheap flights. Now I don't give a fig about cheap flights, i want to tell them specific dates they can come. Basically we invite them for specific dates, not them suggesting dates. I felt so stressed out and annoyed last time with them here.
> Basically they can come stay with the boys for 5 days while I am in hospital then leave the day after I get out as is need a week alone to leak milk and sit in pjs. They can see baby every day if they want in hospital.
> We are going to offer to pay their flights if it means them not staying an extra 3 days to get cheaper flights...but then someone will be offended. I mean, how do we explain that we don't want them here an extra couple of nights even if it is a lot cheaper.....will mention leaky boobs and hope they get the idea...I can't very well say I just find them so annoying I was in tears last time and can't face that again!...
> 
> Oh why is it all so complicated?

That is a terribly difficult situation. I would completely lose my mind if my in-laws decided that they should stay with us after the baby is born. My mom is going to stay, but we are super close and I know I will want her there.

Could you appeal to your MIL's heart? Try reminding her of how much she needed alone time to bond with her baby after she gave birth? Or just straight up tell them that having a baby is stressful and you appreciate their help with the boys, but you want to have a special time with your new one before spending extended time with anyone outside your immediate, immediate family.


----------



## SierraJourney

Sooo glad I'm not the only one gaining this much weight! :) Thanks for making me feel better ladies! :)

helena, the way my insurance works is that they actually pay for the breast pump 100%---so it's mine to keep! So, that's the only reason I'm getting it so early---I would never spend that much money on my own! haha. 

I'm so sorry to hear about the in-laws! That's really hard! My mother and I actually just had the conversation last night about this---she wants to come and stay and I told her that I want to be with the baby by myself (with DH of course) for a few days, then I might need some help. I told her that I'll keep her "on call" for when I need her. She was super understanding about it. DH's mom, however, we haven't had the discussion with, yet. . .and she's already told me she wants to come help right after the baby is born. . so I'm waiting to have that discussion with her later. . .hopefully she's understanding like my mum! :) 

Honestly, I would just tell them what you need, helena----you have every right to request time alone with your new lo. They need to understand that---and if not, then they should be able to get over it and respect your wishes. It's your time--you decide.


----------



## Jo_Bean

Agree with Sierra. Plus, if they get really funny about it, they will be cutting their own nose off as they will lose out in the long run!


----------



## Kellen

I feel reassured as well that I'm not the only one who gained a whole bunch of weight recently. I have been freaking out (in my head) about having gained too much. Having gained 20lb all total means I should technically only gain 10lbs more... and there are 15 weeks to go. We'll see next week if my midwife is concerned. The last time I thought I had gained too much and they told me not to worry and just eat healthy. It helps that our state tax refund finally came in today... yes, the refund from April. I love government bureaucracy.


----------



## DragonflyWing

Kellen said:


> I spoke with my HR person yesterday about FLMA, pay and all that lovely stuff. Which leads me to ponder: Dragon - how long have you worked for your company? If it is over a year they are required by federal law to grant you non-paid time off for any doctors appointments during your pregnancy without fear of losing you job. Thankfully my year with my organization is two weeks before my due date. My HR person explained that if I had been here for a year they would have to be taking time off from my 12 weeks of leave every time I go see the midwife whether or not I make up the time later.

I've been with the company for 3 years, so I do qualify for FMLA- but I don't want to use any of the time until after the babies are born, if possible. The chance of me losing my job over the doctor's appointments is low...so far my manager has been very understanding and accomodating. I just worry because I have a lot of responsibility, and I don't want my clients to start complaining that they can't reach me when I'm out of the office so much...and I don't want my managers to think I'm slacking off or trying to take more time than necessary. I know that's silly, because the doctor's appointments are necessary, but that's just the feeling I get. My bigger worry is all the medical bills that are rolling in. I'm already up to over $2000 and I don't even know how much the NSTs will cost :wacko:

I just found out that my insurance will pay for a breast pump, too. They'll pay 100% for me to either rent a hospital grade pump, or buy a commercial double electric pump outright. Yay! :happydance:

Sierra and wamommy- I had no idea that you both battled cancer so young! Your stories are inspiring :flower:


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## helena

Girls, definately go for a hospital grade pump i say. Having spent the best part of 6 weeks having to pump for my first it was so brilliant having the best of the best! Really made such a difference and pumping is hard enough as it is without getting something that could do better...


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Girls, definately go for a hospital grade pump i say. Having spent the best part of 6 weeks having to pump for my first it was so brilliant having the best of the best! Really made such a difference and pumping is hard enough as it is without getting something that could do better...

That's what I have heard----thankfully, that is the type of pump my insurance covers---they won't cover anything other than that. I'm very thankful!


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## wamommy

Ohh, the breast pump... I was unable to breastfeed my girls due to low supply (only 1-2 ounces a day!) and I tried everything. It was truly crushing for me, since I so badly wanted to breastfeed. After trying for a few weeks, with pumping every two hours at times (even night time) I gave up and went to formula. Honestly, I was a ton happier after making the switch, since I didn't have to be reminded of my failings every time they were hungry! I'm HOPING this time a miracle happens and I have success with this. I'll still be renting the hospital-grade pump and giving it a go. 

Helena, that's a tough call about the inlaws! I agree that you should just tell them which dates they're invited. Hopefully they can understand. After all, this is your special time with your LO, that you only get once. You should get to have the experience YOU want. :D

I'm also relieved to hear about everyone's weight gain! I don't see it in my bum or legs yet, but my tummy shows a ton of gain. The problem is, it isn't just all out in front in a nice neat bump. I'm getting wider too! My waist is gigantic from the front. I'm just hoping the love-handle look goes away after baby. I keep telling myself it's just "stuff" being displaced by baby. ya right, it's fat...lol THat didn't stop me from gobbling up a TON of my kids' Halloween candy last night! YUM


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## helena

Happy today, my 4 year old came up with a name we love for baby. Could this one be it we wonder?! I love that he came up with it all n his own. Keeping it under wraps for now, sorry xx


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## SierraJourney

That's awesome helena! That's so special!!!


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## wamommy

That would be amazing to use a name that your son chose!! I completely understand keeping it under wraps, but I'm so happy for you guys if this is indeed IT. :D

My 4-year-old is not so helpful. The only name idea she has, and she's very insistent, is that we name HIM Sally :dohh:


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## MileyMamma

Lol wamommy! My sister wanted to call my brother shla shla annabel when he was born! My daughter chose the Rose in Florence's middle name :)


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## helena

Sally! Love it :) xx


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## Kim2012

Helena so cute that your 4yr old has chosen a name, I havee been asking my 7yr old for a name and most of them are from his cartoons!! Thought he had come up with some thing when he suggested Alexandra.....only to realise its from Peppa Pig!!!

He is now on Tracy and I am yet to discover where its coming from..

Wamommy calling the combination of Sally and him ... pure innocence!! Kidz you gotta love them.


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## helena

Turns out the name he has chon is from one of his favorite Dismey films! But it's nice, and I didn't realize, though DH worked it out right away. Wish I could say!.....

Just spotted I am a cauliflower for a second week. Urgh. Hope it's got some cheese sauce on! Any Brits off to fireworks this eve? We have a British shop a few villages away (rediculously expensive, but sometimes you just neeeeeeeeed a crumpet or some scampi!) and they are putting on a bonfire and fireworks display so we will go there.
Enjoy all! X


----------



## sleeping bubs

Wow didn't wamammy and seria I too had cancer non-hodgkins lymphoma but when I was 7 so been having heart scans every 5yrs since coz of the chemo due another scan nxt year so far so good bump is getting bigger can't put my shoes very well now lol I have put a Stone on bout 14lb I think lol heartburn and acid reflux is becoming a nightmare feel sick constantly


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## helena

Glad to see a fair few of us are gaining the same amount of weight :)
I haven't any indigestion so am lucky but have been suffering upset tummy nearly every day for a week, mostly in the morning. My tummy gurgled the other day and it wasn't in the right place - I felt the gurgle on the right side of my waist! Urgh. I guess everything is squished up now!....third tri definitely looming!


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## wamommy

Oh gosh, third tri!! I don't have much nausea or indigestion yet, but I feel like an old lady already! When I get up from sitting too long or from sleeping I have to hobble around until my body isn't so stiff. I look like a penguin!


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## Jo_Bean

I have that exact problem! If I've been sat down I get up whilst making a loud noise and groaning sounds then wobble and waddle. It's awful! :haha:

But if I'm doing too much walking or moving around then my pelvis feels like it's snapped in two!

I have yet to find the perfect amount of movement per day :rofl:


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## helena

My upset tummy continues. Mostly it's just a feeling of being upset, like it's bloated and full. And I have only felt baby move once today. It's 11.20 now and I am starting to feel a bit anxious. She was quite yesterday too.... I think she has moved, so maybe she is hidden being the placenta again (I read this can happen as baby moves up and my placenta is at the front) ....which I guess would account for my feeling of indigestion / being full....but am a little concerned. 
I would eat some chcolate and try and get her wiggly but. Noticed las night I have definitely gained weight on my legs...talk about thunder thighs! Even my lower legs look chunkier..all new for me.

Ah forget it, will try and eat sme sugar and see if I can feel her...would hate to ignre something bad happening for fear of getting fat....


Aren't we meant to be worrying less now???!


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## Kim2012

Wamommy u made me laugh likening yourself to a a penguin......Was thinking of the same before my shower when I was looking at my protruding to the front and my bum doing the same to the back and sideways!! 

Jo I hear you on the wobble and wabble.I have been to physio for pelvic pain and they recommended some breathing in and muscle tensing before you stand up.....Gosh pelvic pain is a real pain

'For fear of shock' I havent weighed my self since the booking scan.... but I may this afternoon

Helena just go for the chocolate if it makes LO moves and calms the worries. Hope it does the trick!


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## Kim2012

:shrug::shrug: fruit Tickerrrrrrr !!! Second week of being an eggplant:dohh:


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## Kellen

Good Monday All,

The past two nights have I have had weird "labor dreams." Is anyone else beginning to experience these? Tomorrow I go in for my glucose test so that should be interesting. My boss is finally back from maternity leave so now I get to update her on all the work I've been doing while she was gone so she can do it while I go out on leave in February.


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## SierraJourney

I haven't had labor dreams, per say---but I've had dreams about miscarrying ( :( ) and dreams about him as a baby---I had a dream the other day that he had dark hair, dark eyes, etc---when DH and I are VERY pale skinned and light haired (DH is a red head, and I am a light brown/auburn) and we both have blue eyes! :)

Let us know how the glucose test goes! I think you're the first of us to go through it!


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## helena

Still only two faint movements all day. Even the chocolate didn't help. A nice tho! Trying to not worry. Belly still aching like indigestion and like I just ate a whole cow. Urgh.


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## Jo_Bean

I have my glucose tolerance test next Monday. 25 week check up tomorrow.

Helena, I've had moment where I worry about not feeling her for a while but then when I am led quietly in bed, she always gives me a good old nudge. I have an anterior placenta so the movements I've felt have been limited and a lot later than perhaps they would have been if the placenta wasn't in a silly place. 

Dave still hasn't felt her :(


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## Kellen

Every Sunday morning before church I grab our _What to Expect_ book off the headboard of our bed and read about the up coming week. Well, for week 26 DH learned that if he were to shine a flashlight into my belly Teagen's eyes are beginning to open and she might startle. So he took of advantage of this and almost fell out of bed laughing as the baby would jerk away from the intrusive light. After this he tried to see if he could hear her heartbeat and got kicked in the ear for his troubles.


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## helena

Jo were right - As my two year old had a nap I thought I would lay down too and got three nice pokes from baby :) happier now.


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, Kellen, that's too funny! I'll need to try that with the flashlight! 

I've been having labor dreams quite often...in fact, I woke up from one convinced that I was having contractions because there was pain...and then I realized I just had to pee REALLY bad :haha:

The babies have gotten so much stronger over the past week! I can feel them moving practically all the time, and I can look down and actually watch them kick. Yesterday morning before we got up for the day, DH thought I was still asleep. He rolled over and put his hand on my belly, and little boy started kicking right in that spot :D it was really sweet. That was the first time he felt them without me grabbing his hand to feel. There's still a big section of my belly where I never feel them, and I assume that's where the placentas are...but I feel them a lot at the very top and bottom of my belly. 

On a less positive note, I realized this weekend that I've developed varicose veins right where my thigh meets my groin on both sides...it's so uncomfortable and it's making it hard to sit or stand for any length of time. I ordered a babybellybands support belt that has extra bands that support that area. Apparently it's a common thing to get varicose veins down there in pregnancy. Very annoying.


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## Jo_Bean

Kellen, I told my hubby that about the flash light and he thought I was making it up! :haha:

Yay for feeling her Helena :cloud9: Mine seems to like being rocked about and when I'm rushing around or poking her or anything, she's still. The second I just chill out and close my eyes, it's like oi mummy, you stopped moving! 

I hope this isn't a sign of things to come! :haha:


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so glad she gave you some reassuring bumps :D She must be having a growth spurt, and took a day to rest.

I haven't had any labor dreams lately, but I am starting to think about it more and more! I'm a bit nervous, but excited too! I can't wait to see him! DH is half Japanese, with very dark hair and hazel eyes. I have light brown hair and brown eyes, but was super blonde as a child. Somehow my 2 DDs are blonde, and one has blue eyes! DH is convinced this one will look more like him, but we'll see. I like to tease him that I must have the stronger genes :haha:

My glucose test isn't until the end of the month, when I'll we around 28 weeks. That seems awfully late? Hopefully we all get good news!


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## helena

It's my glucose test on Friday. To make things worse my doctors surgery don't do it themselves so I have to drive into the city for an 8.30 appointment...hate driving to places i don't know in town let alone in rush hour!..good job it's not a blood pressure test!
Wamommy I read it can be done upto 28 weeks so I am sure it's fine xx


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## wamommy

Oh, good! No fun driving in rush hour :( I am an anxious driver, so when the roads are too crowded I get really nervous.


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## Kellen

I miss Northern California and a lack of rush hour traffic, but I am very glad to be in a more progressive city with excellent doctors and a job I love.

I've read that glucose tests are typically done between 24-28 weeks. I guess I'm pretty much smack dab in the middle.

DH is taking me to the polls after our appointment so we can vote. What a romantic way to spend our day together... sugary drinks and elections!

I am pretty sure that our baby will have dark hair and green/hazel/brown eyes. Both DH and I have almost black hair. His eyes are grey/green whereas mine have a propensity for changing color depending on my mood. I would really love for our baby to have dark hair and bright blue eyes (my father has blue eyes as does my MIL). DH is predicting us a redhead (which isn't impossible since my grandma is 95 and still has a full head of bright red hair and my MIL is a red/blond). You can already see that Teagen has my nose from the profile shots of our last ultrasound.


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## SierraJourney

I'll be doing my glucose test at 28 weeks. . . so, you're not alone wamommy! :)


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## wamommy

They seem to have us on almost the same exact schedule, Sierra! Glad to know it isn't too late to do it. 

Luckily I already voted by mail, Kellen, so no need to fight the poll lines! I'll just spend Tuesday on the couch watching the numbers roll in. I've always found politics interesting, but also highly annoying! I don't like all of the personal attacks, and I'm terribly sick of campaign commercials. 

I've learned that how a baby looks is completely unpredictable! Both of my girls look nothing like me OR dh, really. It's fun to watch them develop, though, and see a random facial expression that HAS to be genetic, since my grandmommy passed years ago and once in a while I hear her laugh or see her face in my daughters. So cool!


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## helena

My friend s short with dark hair. Her husband is tall with dark hair. They have a very fair tall girl. like really pale, really light almost white blonde. No idea whose side that came from. She jokes it was the Scandinavian mlkman of course..

My eldest looks a lot like me, the youngest like daddy so it will be fun to see what baby 3 is like!...:)

Less bloated and sore today. Baby kicking again. I think she must have moved into a painful position yesterday, not enjoyed it, and Moved back in the night?! Or maybe it was the big shift to head down position? I heard it happens any time from now.

Oooh 100 days till due day!


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## Jo_Bean

Double digits tomorrow :yipee:


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## Kellen

So the sugary drink wasn't all that bad. I went with the "Fruit Punch" flavor. We got there 30 minutes early so that half the time was taken up chatting with our midwife and watching a required movie about cord blood banking.

I gained 10lbs in 4 weeks. I feel slightly crushed. My midwife said not to worry because I didn't gain any in the first trimester. I'm also measuring at 27 instead of 26 weeks. As long as I keep craving brussels sprouts instead of candy she says I'll be good. Still it was a week bit shocking.

I have also been banned from ice skating. :( DH told on me. I enjoy zooming around and going fast. I had the midwife believing I would skate sedately near the wall. 

Well, I'm off to answer about 80 ridiculous emails. Apparently people only respond when I send out deadlines. I would rather be busy that sit here and be bored. Actually, I would rather be home taking a nap, but that isn't going to happen. Managed to get to the polls this morning. Apparently DH's address hadn't been updated since we moved last December, which meant we had to drive 15 minutes to a second polling place for him to cast his ballot... ugh.


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## wamommy

Woohoo!! Less than 100 days makes it seem so close! I better get some things done :haha: I haven't put together the crib or anything. I also have to order a blue cover for our car seat, since right now it's a gorgeous hot pink and maroon :dohh: 100 days!!

Kellen, this month MUST have been a huge growth month for our babies. All of us seem to have had a larger gain this month. Perhaps it's normal and healthy :D I tell myself that, anyway, as I about cried yesterday when I had to buy new underwear because my hips are getting too wide! Perhaps I'll post a "100 days to go!" picture later, if I get the guts!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> Woohoo!! Less than 100 days makes it seem so close! I better get some things done :haha: I haven't put together the crib or anything. I also have to order a blue cover for our car seat, since right now it's a gorgeous hot pink and maroon :dohh: 100 days!!
> 
> Kellen, this month MUST have been a huge growth month for our babies. All of us seem to have had a larger gain this month. Perhaps it's normal and healthy :D I tell myself that, anyway, as I about cried yesterday when I had to buy new underwear because my hips are getting too wide! Perhaps I'll post a "100 days to go!" picture later, if I get the guts!

wamommy---you too?! I was JUST telling DH that I need new underwear! I work with my sister and she commented how she could tell THROUGH my work pants that my underwear were too small. :( (I've been trying to squeeze into them for fear of losing all sense of my "sexiness") :haha: Guess I'm going to go get new underwear very soon. . . . :dohh:


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## Kellen

I am very thankful that my underwear still fits nicely. :) It is just really my bump that has grown. DH and I have been walking a mile every other day or so so I think that has helped. I did moderate lunges and knee bends around the house yesterday. Now I am sore, but in a good way. I read somewhere that they help strengthen your pelvic floor muscles and having strong thighs can ease labor.

I can't believe we are almost down to double digits! I was also told today that if I pass the glucose test that today would be the last time they needed to draw my blood. Hooray!

The insurance billing person at our OB office is also super cool. She drew up a plan for us that will allow us to start paying on the "out of pocket" costs before our deductible is used up. This will help! It means we really shouldn't have to pay too much to the hospital once the baby is born. Once we meet the deductible and out of pocket the rest is covered 100%. She is hoping that we'll have it spent almost all the way down by mid-January. It is nice to know that some people do care.

I ate Chinese for lunch. My fortune cookie said: Soon someone new coming into your life will be a best friend. It is now taped to my work monitor.


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## SierraJourney

Aww Kellen---I love that! What a great fortune! And awesome about the billing lady! 

We'll have to pay our deductible out-of-pocket as soon as baby is born because of the hospital charges---but the good news after that is that everything will be covered because we met the deductible! 

Life sure seems CRAZY for me lately! My sister and her family are getting ready to move in this weekend, I finally found a desk that will work for my home office so we have to pick it up this week, DH seems to be going in one direction all week and I'm going in another. I just want a relaxing week! :)


----------



## Kellen

SierraJourney said:


> I just want a relaxing week! :)

Relax? What is that? :rofl: I can't believe it is only Tuesday. I just want to crawl back into bed and :sleep:

Good luck with the move in! I hope that everything goes well and that you are able to get your desk.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> SierraJourney said:
> 
> 
> I just want a relaxing week! :)
> 
> Relax? What is that? :rofl: I can't believe it is only Tuesday. I just want to crawl back into bed and :sleep:
> 
> Good luck with the move in! I hope that everything goes well and that you are able to get your desk.Click to expand...

Haha true! Poor pregnent women need their rest, though! haha. And the thing is--it doesn't slow down after baby! :)

Thanks---I'm SUPER excited about my desk. I've been looking for months for the perfect one since I'll be working from home---it has to be big enough to spread all of my paperwork across plus hold 3 computer monitors (yes, I use three!), but it needs to match our decor and fit in our den! I FINALLY found a used desk in GREAT condition, for a fraction of the cost this desk is valued at! :happydance:


----------



## helena

Congrats on surviving the elections to our American ladies. All my American friends on fb seem happy today so hoping it was the right result for you guys too.

Double digits!!!!


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## Kellen

I have earbuds that I use to listen to stuff on my work computer with. Well, I've tucked them in the waist band of my pants and now my LO is dancing around to Frank Sinatra. I made a couple of Pandora stations of music that we typically listen to around the house. My mom said one of the only ways to calm me down as an infant was to play the same music that I had been exposed to in the womb. I figured I would start the exposure now (since I'm boring and listen to traffic and talk radio in the car) so that we will have some familiar tunes to play when the time comes.

Baby is super active with the music. I read this morning that at 26 weeks our LO's hearing is 100% developed and they will move rhythmically if music is played. So far that seems to be holding true.

For those of you with prior kids... did you ever expose them to music and did it help after they were born?


----------



## wamommy

Thanks, Helena! Elections are always exciting, and I am pleased with both national and my state's elections. Unfortunately it was close enough that I think half of our country isn't too happy today! Our state legalized gay marriage (finally! :D) and marijuana...lol. Seattle has long been known as a hippie coffee town, so I don't think many are surprised. I feel lucky to live here today.

Kellen, I never played a ton of music with either of my girls, but they still love music. The kind they like varies, but my youngest LOVED irish music... the fast kind that gets you up and dancing. I wish I had played them more music. Maybe I'll start with this one! 

Congrats on the desk, Sierra! It can be tough to find the "perfect" thing, and I'm glad you did!


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## DragonflyWing

Honestly I'm disappointed with the results of the election :( But I'm glad to hear that other people are pleased. I hope it turns out that their choice was the right one! 

Kellen, it's so funny that you posted that today! I had a bright idea this morning- I set my phone to play some classical music, then tucked it into the waistband of my maternity jeans :haha: I thought it might make the babies dance, but it seemed to put them to sleep instead lol. I hope it works the same when they're here!


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> Honestly I'm disappointed with the results of the election :( But I'm glad to hear that other people are pleased. I hope it turns out that their choice was the right one!

I'm sorry! :( I shouldn't have mentioned my political views, since this isn't really the venue. I think we can all agree that we're glad it's over, though :D


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## helena

I didn't play music to my little ones.i did sing excessively from time to time in the car while pregnant and they both ask me to stop when I do it now...maybe that upset them!? Lol xx


Ooh this week we are cabbages! Cool.


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy said:


> I'm sorry! :( I shouldn't have mentioned my political views, since this isn't really the venue. I think we can all agree that we're glad it's over, though :D

Definitely glad it's over! Although I'm still getting those automated political phone calls :dohh:

Happy 26 weeks ladies! :flower: Our babies now have an 80% chance if they had to be born right now. (I check the odds every week because with twins, I'm paranoid about preterm labor!)


----------



## wamommy

80% already?? That's amazing!! I"ll sleep a bit better for sure, and certainly with twins I'll bet each week is a milestone!

We're still stuck on a name. Nothing seems to fit quite right. Less than 14 weeks to go, we better figure it out!


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## Jo_Bean

We are stuck on a name too :( we jus can't seem to find anything that we both like! I'm actually considering calling her baby, just because currently, that is the best option!


----------



## SierraJourney

Aww guys---I'm so sorry it's so hard finding a name! That's rough. Have you tried other country names? For instance, my DH and I found a boy's name from googling "Welsh baby boy names". 

We're still not sure on the middle name for our little guy. . . it's either between a family name and a Scottish middle name. The Scottish name we both love, but we feel that it is so unusual that our child will have to explain it to any of his friends that ask. Do you think that is a big deal? We like the meaning of the middle name. . .and it's a cute name, but unusual. . .


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## Jo_Bean

I don't think a more unusual middle name is a problem, it's a chance to be more creative IMO :thumbup:


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## wamommy

^^ I agree! No one would probably know his middle name unless he told them, anyhow, and it might make a great conversation starter :D


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## ClaireJ23

Hope I can join you ladies, I am due 8th Feb and it´s a girl.


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## helena

Hi claire! Welcome, the more the merrier!

I had my glucose test this morning. What a pain that was...took me 1.5 hours to get to the silly place they sent me to for it, involving travel by car, tram and bus. And me running to catch the wrong bus at one point (haven't ran in soooooo long!), a tram driver driving off just as I was buying my ticket from the machine a the tram stop, and me hence being 15 minutes late for the appointment...grrrrr.

Drink wasn't so bad. Hanging around 2 hours not so bad as I had a book. But on the return journey I had a weird dizzy moment and thought I was going to pass out. I had only eaten toast, about 5 hours previously, so maybe it was that, or maybe it was the suga come down from the glucose, a reaction to the three viles of blood taken or maybe some sort of panic attack (have felt stressy lately, like high blood pressure) but after getting off a bus I suddenly felt all hot, sweaty and wobbly. No where to sit down, so went straight into a shop, bought coke, biscuits and Doritos and sat on my next tram like a big huge pregnant lady stuffing my face with junk food! (DH laughed and said he wished e could have seen that moment!..). Made me feel much less wobbly. Was a bit scarey, like just too close to fainting for my liking.
So i suggest you take some snacks with you if you have your test coming up ladies, just incase of wobbles after the appointment!

I so feel all your stresses about names Jo. We had the same until my son came up with a gem. I think it is Italian in origin, if it was spelt differently, so maybe you could look into ther nationalities?...

Xx


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## SierraJourney

Welcome Claire!

Helena, that is so scary! I would have done the same---so don't worry about the junk food! ;) Glad you seem better now.


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## Jo_Bean

sounds like a bit of a journey for the GTT then Helena! Glad you didn't actually faint!

Good tip, I'll take something with me to have after if I'm feeling dizzy or light headed.

I have decided that with names I was discounting some of my favourites because some people I know on BnB have used them. Now I need to be realistic about this. Two of my friends from other threads have used one of our favourite names and it is very popular - probably one of the all time top 20s or something. I was counting this name and all other names in a similar circumstance out. But I need to question, how much does it matter? I love these ladies, but we don't see each other in real life, so is it a big deal?

This has also made me question other names that I've known friends of friends to use in recent times and I just think, if we don't see these people or hang around with them, does it really matter if we use the same name? Usually I would say yes, but I am wondering if it's that big a deal now :shrug:

Something else to think about in the naming saga that never ends :haha:


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## MileyMamma

Hello and welcome Claire :)

I found this site with some cool quirky names check it out https://www.momswhothink.com/baby-names/unique-baby-names.html


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## SierraJourney

Jo, I wouldn't think it matters that much---especially for the people on BnB who you never see in real life. I would go for it!


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## helena

Exactly Jo, it doesn't matter really unless it's another child you ae likely to see every day and then really what doesn't still matter..
I do the same tho, discount so many names for silly reasons.DH liked the name Amber, I had to say no as I know he kissed an Amber when he was about 17.. Haha, like that really matters?! Silly me.But I still say no, as pretty as it may be. And I love the name Dorothy (Dotty) after my Nan, but my cousin already has that name..but we live in different countries and have only met twice!? So i cold se it...but it would feel odd.You ae welcome to those names xxx


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Exactly Jo, it doesn't matter really unless it's another child you ae likely to see every day and then really what doesn't still matter..
> I do the same tho, discount so many names for silly reasons.DH liked the name Amber, I had to say no as I know he kissed an Amber when he was about 17.. Haha, like that really matters?! Silly me.But I still say no, as pretty as it may be. And I love the name Dorothy (Dotty) after my Nan, but my cousin already has that name..but we live in different countries and have only met twice!? So i cold se it...but it would feel odd.You ae welcome to those names xxx

Oh, I wouldn't have allowed the name of someone my DH kissed, either. lol Silly, yes, but that would just be weird!


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## Jo_Bean

^^ me neither, I have discounted anything that can be shorted to Ali for that exact reason :rofl:

We even had a mini disagreement about the name Megan last night because I read it in a book and then hubby said Megan Fox straight away. Now I don't mind Megan Fox and I'm not that bothered that she's hot and a tiny bit of a skank, but if that's the first thing that pops into his head when discussing what could be our future daughters name, it put me off! 

I think I think too much :rofl:

We attach so much to a name don't we!? I know it's because we want it to summarise the little person growing inside of us and want it to say so much about the hopes we have for them. But I have to keep trying to remind myself that they will make the name their own and make it special and have it's own meaning once they are here. I just find it really hard! But I'm sure we all do :haha:


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## Kellen

That is why I really like the name we chose. No one on either side of our family is named Teagen or even has a name close to that. I wanted a name that she would be able to own and make her own. I was also very particular about not giving her a super girly name (which is my DH's Christie go shot down immediately). I want her resume (in the future) to be looked at for it's merits, not just because she is perceived as male or female. Given, her middle names are family names, but her first name is all her own.

Over the past two days I have been in a super foul mood and I think it was because of the GTT. I read somewhere that other people have been cranky after their tests. On Wednesday I had to stop answering emails because I noticed my replies were becoming a wee bit snarky. I was also very tired and have had trouble remembering things more than usual.


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## Jo_Bean

I love the name you've chosen Kellen x

I've been a bit like that lately. I think the uncomfortable-ness is setting in a bit and it just makes me have less patience really. Like I just need a rest!


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## wamommy

Jo, I would pick the name you and DH love, regardless of who else has it :D I understand the trouble, though. One of my favorite names is now #4 nationally, so I took it off the table so that LO won't be one of 4 in his class with the same name. It's so tough, isn't it!!?

Helena, I would feel the same way about the name Amber. It may seem silly, but this is our little child on the way, and how we feel about their name (regardless of the reason) IS important! I've mentally discounted any name that I've had attachment to in the past for a boy, out of respect for DH, even if he doesn't know! I would feel guilty picking a name that secretly reminded me of a fling. Also,  thanks for the warning about the GTT! I'll take a baggy of snacks. Mine isn't until the 28th :dohh:

Welcome, Claire!! Congrats on team pink! How has everything been in your pregnancy so far?

Kellen and Jo, I've been feeling the same way. I think part of it is I don't sleep as well as I used to, so I'm always a bit sleepy. I may be a nightmare in a few weeks!


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## MileyMamma

I'm the same couldn't if had that name!


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## Jo_Bean

I guess the positive thing about having a popular name is that they won't get picked on for being different maybe? But kids always find something don't they :shrug:

Might give up looking at names again for another week as I am even lying awake at night with names running through my head now, they all merge into a rubbishy namey blur :haha:


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## helena

The thing about names is that even f it were the name of a long term ex, let alone a brief encounter, it would soon be baby's name all on their own. They would own the name and make it theirs alone. Like when you hear a friend has called their child a strange name, or something you don't like..it soon becomes a normal name, or acceptable because you get used to it. Theoretically you could call a baby banana and within a few days, weeks or months it would seem perfectly ok and you wouldn't think of yellow fruit each time...

So, banana it is then?


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## Jo_Bean

I think that's an amazing idea! Banana it is! And banana actually goes with my boring one syllable last name so it's perfect!


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## wamommy

:rofl: Banana!! I love it :D I know what you mean. My oldest has a pretty silly nickname that Daddy gave her a few days after birth, and she still wants to be called that name, even at preschool! I'm just afraid I'll name LO something and then later regret it... why, oh why, do I put so much weight on it? You're absolutely right, Helena, the name will be come his regardless. Also, we still have a few weeks!


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## wamommy

Happy Monday, everyone! How was your weekend?


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## Jo_Bean

I had a lovely weekend thank you! I saw my friend who I only get to see once a year really as she lives a good few hours drive away. She spoiled me rotten with things she had left from her baby and presents!

We have definitely agreed on the name now and both love it! So I feel a weight has been lifted and that's that job done :smug:

I had my GTT this morning and it went fine. Luckily I don't live more than 10 minutes from the place where I had it done so I didn't feel faint and after the second blood test I came back home and ate my lunch :thumbup:

How is everyone else doing?


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## DragonflyWing

My weekend was uneventful, aside from an unexplained bout of hysterical sobbing on Saturday...oh, hormones! Otherwise we just hung out around the house, did some organizing, some cooking. 

DH tricked me by saying he was going to make spaghetti with meat sauce on Friday, and I was all excited. In my experience, traditional spaghetti sauce has ground beef, tomatoes, onions, olive oil, garlic, basil, salt, pepper, and oregano. That's pretty much it. HOWEVER, DH put all this weird extra stuff in it like apples, big pieces of sage, wheat germ, wine, etc...totally ruined it. I couldn't even eat it, and I was so disappointed, but I tried not to show it because I didn't want to make him feel bad! All I could eat was some spaghetti with as little sauce on it as possible, and the garlic bread that I made myself.

Now, I'm not averse to trying new things, and I've loved many of the sauces that DH has concocted. It's just that I was so excited about having traditional spaghetti with meat sauce, and it didn't end up being that at all. I almost cried :haha:

I have to give him credit though, the next day when I had that crying spell, he handled it very well. I was getting kind of teary eyed, and telling him that I must be hormonal because I wasn't sure why I was crying...then suddenly without warning, I just burst into hysterical sobs in the kitchen and couldn't even hold my glass of water, it was spilling all over the floor. He just calmly took the glass out of my hand, hugged me until the worst of it was past, then led me to the couch, tucked me under a blanket, handed me a piece of chocolate, and went to clean up the water I spilled. What a guy :D


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## SierraJourney

Aw Dragon---that's cute how your husband handled the crying! I feel my DH would have been, "But WHAT are you crying about?!" He still doesn't understand hormones. :)

Jo---soooooo glad you've decided on a name! That's very exciting! 

I had a good weekend---found out that there is a lady that my sister knows that has a 5 month old boy and is willing to sell me his clothes that he outgrows! (She keeps her clothes super clean, so they look like new! And they are all brand-name stuff. . .) This weekend I got from her: 15 onesies, 3 outfits, 5 shirts, one pair of bib overalls, one bib, and 3 pairs of pants for baby for only $27!---and half of those were new with tags! I was so excited! She's going to keep in touch each time her son grows out of clothing so I'll have a fresh set when mine grows into them! Sounds like a deal to me! :)


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## helena

Oh dragon, love your husband and the blanket and chocolate! What a man!
I also had uncontrolable sobbing at the weekend. On Sunday evening I was convinced I was an awful mother and wife, sobbed my heart out. Actually I thik now I am ok. But right then, it was awful, I thought they would be better with a new mum!!! Bloody hormones.

Great news on the name front Jo! So you had two blood tests? I had 3... Not fair! ;)

Great about the clothes sierra. As long as you like her style :)

We put our little lady's cot up at the weekend . So exciting. And a bought her a dummy / pacifier yesterday. Not that I want to use it...just as a back up plan!! (will sneak it in my hospital bag! Dont tell the nurses!) And it is so cute with Fairies and butterfly's on.
I plan to go through the clothes soon, a mix of my sons' hand me downs and some other second hand stuff, and wash them and put them in her drawers. I haven't bought her any new clothes yet! Think I will try and get away with spending as little as possible. Got her some gorgeous second hand stuff though.


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## Kellen

Good Tuesday Everyone,

This weekend was nice. Both DH and I had three full days off together. I love the man dearly, but I get absolutely nothing completed while he is around. I did manage to clear out two boxes and get him to stow more stuff in the attic since my folks are coming for a two week visit next Tuesday. And we took our cat to get her shots at a vaccine clinic on Sunday. It was at DH's work. There was a lady in front of us who had just rescued a puppy and it was matted to the skin. DH is the grooming manager so he clocked in just to give the poor puppy a shave down and save the woman from having to go to the vet for severe skin problems. Sweet guy. :)

DH is a US Army vet so last night we went out with another family that are also veterans. They wanted to go to Golden Corral because Veterans ate free for dinner, but there was a line wrapping around the building. So we ended up going to TGI Friday's. I'd never been to a TGI Friday's. I had a meltdown and hid in the bathroom crying for a bit due to the fact that I couldn't find anything on the menu that I wasn't allergic to. Ended up ordering mash potatoes, but they had cheese in them... now my stomach is rebelling due to being lactose intolerant. Ugh...

I am avoiding some of the emails that are waiting in my inbox. I swear people don't have brains. "I can't figure out this PDF. Can you send it to me in word?" Really? NO! There is a reason it is in form-fillable PDF so I know you didn't change the text. Or: "Can you tell me when the FY12 Grants will be available?" Oh, you mean the one that was sent out last week? Check your inbox! I think I am just a very grumpy pregnant person today. Next week will be awesome. I have Thursday through Tuesday off to spend with my folks and I am looking forward to sleeping in.


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## helena

Oh I am grumpy too Kellen, just can't be bothered to speak to people today. People are annoying me. Most people. People in general.

Be firm in your replies. Just to too blunt :)


Hormone alert!


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## Kellen

Thanks, Helena! Glad I'm not the only one. I sent a strongly worded email back with a re-attached copy of the "not friendly" PDF and told him to try again. Some of the people I have to deal with only use a computer for the grants once a year. We are trying to move towards a new and easier program, but a lot of my "children" refuse to even consider a new process. *insert banging head on desk* Thankfully my boss rocks and has three kids so he knows better than to work into my office this morning.

And congrats Jo on choosing a name! It is a wonderful feeling to finally know that your baby is no longer a "whose-it" (which is what my father called me until they found out my sex).

Dragon, you aren't the only one with a want to be creative cooking husband. The other night I asked DH to sear some sausage on the stove while I made up a batch of cookies. It took me a while to figure out why I was smelling cinnamon. He decided to "experiment" with cinnamon, cumin, oregano and nutmeg. With enough mustard anything is edible...


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## Kellen

So my family had been bugging us for photos. We were driving home Sunday night and saw this park. I happened to have the camera in the car. Voila! Pictures! Thought you gals might enjoy.
 



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## SierraJourney

Aww ladies! Sorry to hear about the hormones. I may have some flare ups soon, as my sister and her family moved into our house completely yesterday. DH is handling it surprisingly well! Me, on the other hand, I'm being super nice and helpful, but on the inside I just want to cry. It's hard to have your home invaded. I liked my quiet (which won't last long with the baby coming. . haha), and I like to do whatever I want whenever I want. I guess I've been a little spoiled, but it's really weird having to "share" your home with other people. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but it's hard at first! And my poor kitty---they have 3 cats that moved in with us, too, and my kitty has not been around another can for almost a year (when we adopted her as a kitten). She's cowering and hissing and meowing. .. poor thing. I'm worried about her all day long today in the house by herself with 3 strange cats. :( I hope it gets better for her!


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## SierraJourney

Love the pics, Kellen! So cute! I *must* get DH to do this with me soon! :)


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## Kellen

Poor Kitty! Hopefully she will not be too stressed and this will help transition her for when baby arrives.

Our kitty was awesome getting her shots on Sunday. We put on her harness (yes, I walk my cat... and she likes it!) and took her to the store. She played with the dogs and was really good during the shot process. But when I took her over to the adopt-a-kitty enclosure she started hissing and growling. Apparently she thinks she is a dog and doesn't like cats. She slept all day yesterday from the vaccines. Poor baby...

3 out of 8 people at work are walking around with the flu. Thanks... I shall stay in my office and glare at you when you walk past.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! That's so cute about your cat! What a character! 

And stay away from that flu! My goodness--I hate when people bring that kind of stuff into the workplace!


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## Kellen

My office-mate has barricaded us in our office. He has two small kids at home and doesn't want to take any germs with him. One has the flu (but is the boss and has required meetings so I don't blame him) the other has strep (and is an intern so she really needs to go home). We have a bottle of lysol that has been liberally sprayed in our office and on all door handles. lol...


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## SierraJourney

Haha---that's what I'd be doing too!!


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## helena

Can't someone send the intern home? That's terrible behavior!

Oh Sierra, I don't envy you having long term house guests. It's hard enough when we have people for a weekend..do you think your sister and her family will be out and about a the weekends so you have some space? I think it would be a good idea, or you may all fall out. I know I would if m brother moved in. People would just annoy me for being in my space whatever the we're doing after a while. Good luck! Xx


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Can't someone send the intern home? That's terrible behavior!
> 
> Oh Sierra, I don't envy you having long term house guests. It's hard enough when we have people for a weekend..do you think your sister and her family will be out and about a the weekends so you have some space? I think it would be a good idea, or you may all fall out. I know I would if m brother moved in. People would just annoy me for being in my space whatever the we're doing after a while. Good luck! Xx

Thanks helena. The good thing is is that my sister has her 3 year old in a whole bunch of "after-school" activities---like gymnastics and dance, etc. So, there will be a couple evenings in the week where they are gone for a good portion. And her husband is on swing-shift, so most of the time he will be gone working or he will be sleeping. . . so I'm hoping that helps. And they usually are active on the weekends---whether it be shopping or parties or such. So, HOPEFULLY I won't feel this way for too long. :thumbup:


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing, your husband gets the gold star! He handled your crying incredibly. I had a meltdown like that a week or two ago, and my DH just looked at me and said, "seriously?" and walked away :( 

Sierra, it is SO kind of you to help your sister this way. I know it's tough having your space invaded, especially when all of instincts are telling you to prepare/protect your space for baby. I hope the scheduling leaves you some privacy, and that they turn out to be fabulous house guests!

Kellen, LOVE the pictures! You look so adorable :) I haven't taken a belly shot (or any photo actually) since 20 weeks, so you've motivated me! Perhaps I'll do that today. It IS the last day of second tri, after all!

Helena, I had my meltdown about the same thing as you. I was afraid that I'm a terrible Mom, and that having one more might send me over the edge. I was afraid I won't have the time or energy to spend enough time with my girls, and they'll hate me for having another baby...lol. It must be normal! I heard a great quote a long time ago, it was something like "the only bad parent is one who never wonders what kind of parent they are." So I guess we're ok :D

Jo, congrats on picking a name! What a weight off :) Are you telling family, or waiting until the baby is born?


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## Kellen

wamommy said:


> It IS the last day of second tri, after all!

That is a terrifyingly awesome thing to think about. I can't believe that we only have 3 months to go. For me it seems like the days drag whereas the weeks zoom by. Given my three day weekend zoomed to, but ya know...

I feel like there should be a "Second-Third Trimester" board. I don't find many of the 2nd Tri post relevant, but the majority of the 3rd tri seem focused on the very end. I feel like I'm stuck somewhere in the middle. 

Congrats to everyone for making it this far! :happydance:


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## SierraJourney

Kellen said:


> wamommy said:
> 
> 
> It IS the last day of second tri, after all!
> 
> That is a terrifyingly awesome thing to think about. I can't believe that we only have 3 months to go. For me it seems like the days drag whereas the weeks zoom by. Given my three day weekend zoomed to, but ya know...
> 
> I feel like there should be a "Second-Third Trimester" board. I don't find many of the 2nd Tri post relevant, but the majority of the 3rd tri seem focused on the very end. I feel like I'm stuck somewhere in the middle.
> 
> Congrats to everyone for making it this far! :happydance:Click to expand...


I completely agree! I keep bouncing back and forth on each board trying to find relavant information!


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## wamommy

Me too! I feel like I'm in between, and less and less posts apply to me. Ah well, at least all of you guys are at the same stage, and understand what's going on with our crazy bodies!


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## DragonflyWing

I totally agree...I go back and forth between second and third tri, too. I can't believe we're so close to the 3rd trimester, time has flown! 

Kellen, those pictures are great! :D

wamommy, I would have punched my husband if he just walked away while I was crying. Just the thought of it makes me angry! :hugs:

I went for my weekly NST and a growth scan this morning. Babies are doing great, Gunnar is 2lb4oz and Lily is 2lb2oz. The NST took forever because they couldn't keep the heartbeat monitors on Gunnar...he was like a little Houdini escaping from the probe. Then they told me that I was having some contractions, but I couldn't feel anything. The doctor did a cervical check and a test for preterm labor...I think it's called a fetal fibronectin test? I'll get the results later today, but she said my cervix is still long and closed, so she's not worried. I'm starting to get SPD pretty bad, it was really difficult to get back into my pants after the test, and walking to my car was agony. Dr suggested a maternity support belt to hopefully help with that. Fundal height is measuring very nearly full term already!


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## SierraJourney

Aww Dragon---they sound so cute! 

Let us know what the test results come back as---"contractions" is such a scary word at this point!! 

This might be a dumb question, but what is SPD?


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## DragonflyWing

SPD is symphysis pubis dysfunction...pregnancy hormones cause the ligaments in your pelvis to loosen, and sometimes this can cause pain and instability in the joints, especially right at the front at your pubic bone (symphysis pubis joint). It hurts a lot to do anything where I have to separate my legs, like walking, climbing stairs, getting in and out of the car, rolling over in bed, etc.


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> SPD is symphysis pubis dysfunction...pregnancy hormones cause the ligaments in your pelvis to loosen, and sometimes this can cause pain and instability in the joints, especially right at the front at your pubic bone (symphysis pubis joint). It hurts a lot to do anything where I have to separate my legs, like walking, climbing stairs, getting in and out of the car, rolling over in bed, etc.

Oh my goodness Dragon---that's horrible! I'm sorry! I had no idea. . . Sounds really painful! :(


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks! It's been mostly just uncomfortable for the last month or so, but it rapidly worsened over this past weekend...and today it's the worst it's ever been. I'm actually having some trouble just walking to the bathroom. Last night I tried using a heating pad, but that didn't seem to help. Tylenol doesn't help. So far the only thing that helps is sitting/laying in one place lol, but then when I have to move or get up it comes right back.


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## SierraJourney

Wow. I hope you can find some sort of relief soon!

Is anyone taking any classes? If so, when? 

DH & I signed up for a "Preparation in Childbirth" class in January---it's one day a week for four weeks. The other classes I'm thinking of signing up for are: Breastfeeding 101 and "Baby Bootcamp" (which is the basics on taking care of a baby. . .).


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## wamommy

Oh, Dragonfly, that sounds awful! I feel bad for complaining about my back and hips! I read on another thread that SPD can be helped by gluing your knees together (figuratively, lol) when you bend or sit or lie down. Does that help at all? I wish there was a solution to bring some relief! It's great to know the babies are growing well, though. I can't believe they're already over 2 lbs!

Sierra, I took childbirth classes with my first and really enjoyed them. To be honest, the info was nothing I couldn't find in books, but getting to talk to other first-time parents was really fun. We had a great group (maybe 6 couples?) where everyone chimed in and told jokes, etc. I really looked forward to those classes each week. I also took breastfeeding 101, which I suppose was ok. I learned the basics, but was still not able to breast feed. I also took an infant CPR class, which I highly recommend. After baby was born I took an infant massage class, lol. It was entertaining, and DD loved it. More importantly, I met one of my really good friends in that class. Since we obviously both had new babies it gave us an instant connection :D I recommend taking as many as you have time for, because it's a great way to connect with DH and completely focus on LO. 

My Mom just stopped by unexpectedly to have DH take a look at her laptop which seized up. He spent 2 hours with her fixing it while I panicked about how messy my house is! I really haven't been keeping up with housework like I should, and was totally embarrassed. Oh well... She had 3 kids close together, so I doubt my Mom thought anything of it. I also don't see it getting any better in a couple of months :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Those classes sound great wamommy---I'll definitely check into more! Thanks for the tip!

I'd be embarrassed if my mom just stopped by---I ALWAYS clean up the house for her. It's not usually dirty, but DH doesn't put things away right away sometimes. . .so it would just look cluttered! I'm sure she didn't even think twice about it, though----I usually find that I am more worried about it than people really notice. .. 

Also, my Mom and younger sister offered to come clean my house completely for me right before baby comes---hooray! :)


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## SierraJourney

Those classes sound great wamommy---I'll definitely check into more! Thanks for the tip!

I'd be embarrassed if my mom just stopped by---I ALWAYS clean up the house for her. It's not usually dirty, but DH doesn't put things away right away sometimes. . .so it would just look cluttered! I'm sure she didn't even think twice about it, though----I usually find that I am more worried about it than people really notice. .. 

Also, my Mom and younger sister offered to come clean my house completely for me right before baby comes---hooray! :)


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Also, my Mom and younger sister offered to come clean my house completely for me right before baby comes---hooray! :)

So jealous! I already told me DH that all I want for Xmas is a maid for a day :haha:


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## helena

Oh wow so 27 is the start f tri 3? I keep reading mixed dates and getting confused. Yaaaaay, I will count tri 3 as starting tomorrow then. Fab.
Sorry to hear about the SPD dragon. I have had bouts of t, or what I think s it, but right now it is ok. Seems a lot worse after I have overdone it. Maybe ot isnt spd at all, can it come amd go? But i know how painful it an be, and carrying two it must be worse. Poor you! X mine plays up After I have sat with my feet up on the sofa. I think feet and knees should be lower than hips? Or something like that. Stating cross legged can give me pains afte too. Have you tried sitting on a birthing or exercise ball? I hear they can relieve pressure a lot.

I felt baby have hiccups for the first time this morning :) a rhythmical pop pop pop pop pop :)

Have also been having some period type pains mostly at night or the mornings. I thought it might be Braxton hicks (couldn't work them out in my first two prregnancies) but the bmp doesn't go hard, it's just like dull period pains. Hopefully not contractions...will maybe mention to the doc when I see him next week if it carries on. By no doubt it's all normal. 
I also think my little girl is head down ready for blast off now. Her kicks are really high a times, right at the top, and I be a rummaging feeling lower down. It's all going so fast!
If I get my c section on the date we had discussed (1 feb) that is oly just over 11 weeks away. Aaaaaaaaaah! Amazing. Can't wait.

Family offering to come and clean? Amazing!! I will have my MiL her while I am in hospital and she is a washing and ironing fanatic so that's always helpful!

Anyone having eye issues? I usually wear glasses for driving or tv when. A tired but find I need to wear them lots now. Alms b
Urged and double vision ish if I don't. Odd. 
Also so out of breath even when just doing something easy, hoovering or just walking in The garden slowly. Gosh. Feel like I am so unfit!! This is just tri 3 maybe...

Happy Wednesday all. Xxxx


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## Kellen

Good Morning All!

I am glad that I'm not the only one who freaks out about cleaning when family is coming to visit. My folks are coming in next Tuesday and I know I am going to over do it cleaning this weekend. I still have 4 boxes in the office (which will be converted into the guest bedroom) that I need to go through. Once that is done I can wrangle all the computer stuff into the kitchen and set up shop there. I guess it is a good thing we don't have a desk yet and use a card table. :)

Dragon and Helena I am so sorry to hear that your bodies are not cooperating the way that they should. I have sciatica, but I've been dealing with it since before pregnancy so I try to ignore it and see my chiropractor weekly.

I think the 3rd Trimester nesting syndrome hit me at work this morning. I've been ignoring boxes of papers that followed me home from the conference in October. So this morning I completely emptied all the boxes and rearranged my office. I'm pretty much all alone due to everyone being sick and not wanting to infect the pregnant lady (except the stupid intern... :(

We have a potluck coming up Friday at work, but I am at a loss for what to bring. It is supposed to be "Tailgate" themed. I don't do football and I don't eat wings (which is the main thing to be served). Since I have allergies I normally try to fix something I know I can eat. I make a killer spinach dip in sourdough, but I don't like it... The things I do like take a lot of prep time and I'm not willing to put that much work into food for work :LOL: I am a lazy pregnant person.


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies---I just posted this in second tri, but hoping maybe you can help as well? 

I started cramping at 7a.m. this morning and it's now 10a.m. It's still going on and it's constant---it doesn't really let up. It feels like period cramps but no relief---it also feels like a lot of pressure. It's all in my lower abdomen, about 4 inches below my bellybutton and the entire width of my belly below that point. I'm not bleeding or spotting, and baby has been moving off and on for the most part. It just aches. Is this normal? Should I be concerned?

I told my sister about it and she said it's probably Braxton Hicks---but I didn't think those were painful nor were they constant? 

So that's what is going on with me this morning. . .

Kellen---I've been a lazy cook lately, too. . .I only want to make quick and easy things! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- I'd probably call the doctor's office to get their advice. My doctor told me to call if I had cramping like that for over an hour. Hope all is ok! :hugs:


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## Kellen

Sierra, I agree with Dragon. I would call your doctor and see what they have to say. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies. . .I called and told a nurse. She is talking to the doctor and will call me back. . . I'm still able to work through the pain, so it's not extremely bad. . . but it's there and it hasn't let up. It kind of feels like a weight is tied to my uterus and it's pulling down on my lower abdomen. . 

I'll keep you updated.


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## SierraJourney

They ordered a urinalysis. They want to rule out urinary tract infection? I'm leaving soon to have the test, but they said to notify them if the pain gets worse.


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## helena

good luck sierra!! it wasnt the shock of reading the word contraction in this mornings thread?! i agree to call the doctor. i also had period style pains this morning, but they passd after maybe 2 hours. 
once before i woke and had a big ache in the night, a few weeks ago. i think i ache a lot after baby has had a big movment, am hoping maybe your baby has simply wriggled round to the head down position.
if there is no loss of fluid i wouldnt panic.
or if the pain isnt every few minutes as per contractions which get closer together.
i think BH can hurt from what i have rad, or at least be uncomfortable.

let us know how you get on. more rest time and water maybe?
you arent feeling stressed with the house guests? i know i also ache when stressed..

xx


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## wamommy

Sierra, please let us know what they say! A few days ago I started having period-type pains (like Helena described) and one morning it was bad enough for a few hours that I almost called the Dr. I'm hoping it's normal! I found relief by taking a hot shower and wearing extremely loose-fitting pants so there was no pressure on my lower abdomen. I'm hoping it's just baby having a growth spurt, or maybe making the big turn to head down? Sending my thoughts, and hope you feel better :hugs:

Helena, my eyes have been all screwy too. I wear contact lenses all of the time, and they have been bothering me so much. I read that your eyes change shape while you're pregnant, so that may be why. I assume they go back after pregnancy? I've been putting off going to the eye doctor because I don't want to get new lenses for my "pregnancy eyes" and have them not work after!

Kellen, can you eat chili? That's a great tailgating food :D It's easy, too. I don't know how friendly it would be for preggo indigestion, though...lol.


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## Kellen

wamommy said:


> Kellen, can you eat chili? That's a great tailgating food :D It's easy, too. I don't know how friendly it would be for preggo indigestion, though...lol.

That is brilliant! I will make it even easier and buy a bunch of canned chili, stick them in my crockpot and pretend I'm an amazing cook. I know real chili isn't all that difficult, but I'm being really lazy. I know I can get a special type that doesn't have wheat to thicken it. :) Thanks for the excellent suggestion! :happydance:

Also, thinking of childbirth classes. This Thursday DH and I have a waterbirthing class at the hospital we will be using in February. Our midwife is the expert in the state for this so we are pretty excited. The rooms are super nice. After that we will be taking a general childbirth and postpartum class from the same hospital. Just have to find a Saturday that DH doesn't have to work.


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## helena

exactly wamommy, i feel i need a stronger prescription but i dont think we are meant to have an eye test until at least 6 months after having baby. so we should get used to the blurry world for a bit i guess!

good luck again sierra x


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## SierraJourney

Thanks everyone. Just got back from taking the test--they said I probably won't know results until tomorrow! :( I'm not extremely worried, but it would be nice to know today! 

Yes, I have been stressed helena, so maybe that is it---or the baby moving, I thought about that, too. I guess I'll know more tomorrow. . . I'll definitely keep you all updated!

We'll all have to compare notes after taking our classes---that should be fun! I'm excited for classes. Anything that focuses on my baby is a plus for me! :)


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm glad the chili will work :D Loving the idea of canned chili! 

Sierra, yet another suggestion... maybe a growth spurt? I had the worst of my cramps a few days ago, and just now as I walked by my DH said, "Wow, you got bigger since last night." Uh, thanks?! He's right though, I've grown a ton in the past week. I think I've gained 2-3 more pounds this week, so that might be it... I like to think it's baby!! :dohh: Anyhow, hopefully you're just having a growth spurt and the pain is stretching? Either way, I'm glad you went to the Dr and are having it monitored.


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## DragonflyWing

I've been feeling like the bump is growing super fast this week, too...I've also had some period-type pains here and there. Maybe this is just a super growth spurt. The twinkies have been less active for a few days, but I think that's because they're both breech, so their little heads are at the top (where I tend to feel most movement). In that position, I don't get the strong kicks that I get when their feet are up! HOWEVER, Gunnar goes nuts during my weekly NSTs, no matter what position he's in :haha: I have a feeling he's going to be the hyper twin, and Lilja will be the laid back one :)


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## Jo_Bean

Happy 3rd tri ladies!! 27 weeks! Only 13 to go :wacko:


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## helena

13 weeks till D day, amazing!!! Hopefully just over 11 weeks until my c section. Woweeeeeee!.......been tidying toys in my kids playroom, so lots of bending or sitting on floor. Right side of my bottom now in agony, aching right down my leg. Time to rest!..
Hope you ok Sierra x


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! I definitely feel like I am getting bigger, so maybe that's it? I'm still experiencing some pain this morning, but not as bad as yesterday. Since he's been moving and there hasn't been any blood, I feel like I'm okay. . .but hopefully I'll get results from the doctor today. I'm really hoping I don't have a UTI, though! Yucky! 

I can't believe it's third tri already! It's hard to believe we all actually got this far! After my miscarriage, third tri just seemed like a distant dream---and here I am with a very active little guy! I'm just so thankful for how far we've come! Congrats everyone!!!!

On other news---after eveything going on, the buyers backed out on purchasing my sisters house (2 days before closing--which is the date they told my sister she had to be out of the house by). So, they are almost completely moved out now, with no buyer. So, they are going to move back in next week or so. I feel so badly for them---they are exhausted and their poor 3 year old is having a really hard time because she has had to move in with us and now is leaving. She's really emotional and it's been really hard on her. I told them they could stay as long as they like, but they want to get their lives back in order. I feel so badly. :( In some sense, it's good to know that Ill be able to set up the nursery now, but I wouldn't wish this hassle on my family for that. :( They're so exhausted. :(


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## Kellen

Sierra, I'm glad to hear that you are feeling better. Bad news about your sister, that is difficult to deal with. I pray that you are all able to adjust and that the little one isn't too overwhelmed. I too am grateful to be in the third trimester after a miscarriage. This point seem like a mythical place that everyone else would experience but me. For all my complaints to DH about my ribs being used as a jungle gym I am so happy to have an active little girl.

I am dreading a conversation that I need to have with my DH. We live in Georgia. His family lives in Texas. It is a 850 mile one way trip. He really wants to go because his mom has been calling and saying things like: "It has been soooo long since we last saw you. It isn't fair that we never see you." I would like to point out that my parents live 3000 miles away and I've seen them once in the past year; we have visited Texas four times this year.
It isn't that I don't want to go visit, but I have some very serious concerns. 1) I'll be 37 weeks and I don't know how I'll handle two 13-15 hour car rides. 2) Gas isn't all that cheap. It will cost us around $200 round trip. 3) His parents smoke. Since grandpa died I am fairly certain they have started smoking indoors again, but I'm not sure. 4) There is no spare bed. We would be sleeping on an air mattress in the middle of the living room floor...which is cement. 

Any suggestions on a nice way to broach this subject? At this point I'm willing to buy him a plane ticket and stay home with my cat for Christmas. :(


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen! I'm surprised your DH isn't saying no to this by himself! My DH won't even let us drive 4 hours for the holidays because I'll be so pregnant! We're even thinking of trying to get his family to come to our house for Christmas to avoid driving 2.5 hours! 

Could you invite them to your house? Just explain to DH that all of the research says that you shouldn't be in a car for that long---and if you are, you have to stop like every hour in order to stretch while you are pregnant! Tell him you are concerned for the baby since it can't be good to have the blood flow restricted for that long while you're sitting down. Plus, I went for a 6 hour car ride a few weeks ago and I ACHED. Even with stopping, I couldn't get comfortable. It just wouldn't be pleasant. AND, the smoke is not good for you or for the baby---surely you can explain that to him? And you wouldn't get much sleep on an air mattress on a cement floor---and you'll need your rest for labor and for when the baby is here. I would really just focus on how you would "really like to go, but this is probably best for baby if we stay home". Tell him he can invite them to your house. . . or maybe meet halfway at a hotel or something for an evening?

That's really tough, but he should understand. If all else fails, tell him you can postpone the trip until after the baby is born---and wouldn't his family like to see the new baby?

Let us know how it goes!! :hugs:


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## Kellen

Unfortunately his family pleads poverty. They think we are wealthy (hahaha! :rofl:) I have suggested that, but he doesn't seem to understand. His mother has an unhealthy pull on him. She is very good at the guilt game: "All of your siblings will be here. How can I leave my grandchildren?" (She is currently raising 3 grandkids and taking care of DH's sister who broke her neck a couple months ago... who also has three kids).

I know he is going to get mad when I bring it up. His reasoning is: "The midwife said you are good to travel. Why don't you want to go? You don't even like my family!" It is very upsetting to me. I just keep praying that something will happen at either his work or mine that will prevent us from going.


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## helena

Offer to split heir gas bills if it means you not havng to travel? And they travel to you? Driving that far at 37 weeks is not healthy. Wh don't they visit a few weeks later when LO is here?
37 weeks is considered full term..what if you go into labour at theirs? Or on the road?
Your husband needs to step forward and tell mommy no. Why wouldn't you wan to g?...URL, back Ache, constant toilet stops, the risk of labour no where near your doctor, generally feeling heavy and uncomfortable....no, I wouldn't do it! Can't MIL remember being heavily pregnant?

we are also staying home for the holidays this year as I don't want to risk anything r have extra stress.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, Helena brings up a good point---what if you go into labor!? There is no way I would want to have my baby anywhere but with my doctor and my hospital! Surely your DH wouldn't want that either. That's a huge risk! Also, with holiday traffic---what if you get in an accident? He would be risking his child. I would definitely offer to split the gas bill or something. If they can't do that, then you will have to visit with them sometime after baby is born. Your baby is your biggest priority---and your DH's biggest priority. If his mother can't accept that, then that's her problem. You have to look out for this pregnancy. I think if you put it that way--that you are concerned and don't want to go into labor at that point, then your DH should understand.


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## Kellen

You girls are awesome. I hadn't thought about offering to split their gas bill. That might work... if they can get away from the rest of the family.

DH is #4 of 6... the other 5 live within 30 minutes of momma. So somehow I seriously doubt she'll budge. 

And my times were off... I'll only be 33 weeks... so much better. :( Not really. Now DH is having a bad day at work and his paycheck is going to be short due to him taking time off last week. Ugh, I just want to crawl under some blankets and ignore the world.

You guys are awesome. I think I'm going to print out a list of reasons why not to travel.


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## SierraJourney

Even at 33 weeks, it's not advised to travel long distances-----and even at 33 weeks you can go into labor. Ask DH to offer to split the gas bill or ask them if you can celebrate Christmas later with them. (Or maybe earlier? Could you maybe do a Thanksgiving get-together instead? I have heard of other families doing that.--it still won't be the most comfortable ride, but could be an option?) Keep us posted!


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- I hope your husband and MIL can understand that traveling that far while in the third trimester is uncomfortable at best, very risky at worst! Especially driving...no way would I be doing a 13 hour drive even now at 27 weeks! In my case, I guess I'm lucky, because my doctor has forbidden me to travel more than an hour away from home past 24 weeks. And an air mattress on the cement floor? No way in hell! I can barely get in and out of bed as it is, and can barely sleep once I'm in! No...if I were you, I would put my foot firmly down and say that we would have to visit once the baby arrives. :hugs:


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## Kellen

I feel like I have very little room to stand on because our midwife said I would be perfectly fine to travel that distance at 33 weeks. Even though I know I'll be miserable and uncomfortable I feel like he'll ignore it because she said I'll be fine.

I think I'll try proposing splitting the cost of gas tonight after our waterbirth class. Maybe there will be a heavily pregnant person there who I can get to speak up about the stupidity of traveling when 33 weeks pregnant.

Dragon, if you could get your doctor to write me a note for no travel that would be awesome! :haha:


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## helena

Even if the midwife said you are fine (daft advice anyway) if you are stressed about it then that is not good.
If she wants to see you they can come to you. I would stand by that. Or celebrate Easter with them next year! Can't you Skype and that be enough?....having to put yourself so out for others is such a big issue right now. 
Otherwise, tell DH you will need several stops, including at least one or two overnights on the way. So he had best start saving...;)
Life has changed now..

The other option ofcourse is to go along with it but to huff and puff a lot and make them all feel guilty!..;) x


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## Jo_Bean

I am surprised the MW said it's ok to travel at 33 weeks. Some airlines refuse you at 36 and that's only 3 weeks difference!

You need to check insurance too, I'm from the UK so I don't understand how your insurance and healthca system works, but we have travel insurance which would likely not cover any early labour and hospital trips and if you decide to travel whilst pregnant at that stage, it could invalidate it anyway.

You will have to take all the notes and everything with you in case you need to go to another hospital.

My friend has been admitted into hospital today because walking too far made her blood pressure go crazy.

The biggest worry is how much this will stress you out as that will cause just as many problems.

Hope you can resolve it Kellen :hugs:

When your MW said it was ok, did you say you would be sleeping in less than comfortable circumstances?


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## Kellen

Jo, that is an excellent point about insurance. I'm fairly certain they would cover things, but I really should check. I'm enrolled in a Healthy Maternity program. We get extra points towards our deductible. I need to call them for a check-in anyways. No, DH just asked about travel and she was all for it.

Helena, my in-laws are seriously technologically impaired. They haven't bought a new computer since 1998. Yes, that is right... the 1990s. I told DH we need to get all of his siblings on board to buy them a new computer. Hence why my MIL gets huffy when she doesn't receive constant photo updates. I told her to get on facebook. If we do go I will try not to have too crappy of an attitude, but I can't promise anything.

So our agency director just dropped by to say Hi and grab some food. His comment: "Wow, you're over halfway baked and not really even showing!" I laughed inside because when my grandma saw my pictures on facebook she called and asked if I was sure I wasn't have twins. I love how people have completely different perspectives.


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## wamommy

Oh, Kellen, what a tough situation! I agree with what all of the other girls said! There will be plenty of other holidays when you can drive out to see them. Your priority is kicking you in the bladder! It may put a strain on you and DH momentarily, but ultimately I think he'll love and respect that you're protective of the baby.

Luckily my mom only lives an hour away, so it isn't too far of a drive for us. Even THEN, I've been having dreams about going into labor at her house on Christmas :dohh: I think our bodies and minds are just getting ready, and staying close to the "nest" is what we're programmed to do right now.

Sierra, I'm so sorry for your sister! How tough to have to move again... ugh. On the plus side, you can get the nursery all ready now :D 

Thank you, Jo! I can't believe we've all made it to 3rd tri too. Second tri actually flew by! I've still not done ANYTHING to prepare for baby. I've been thinking about making weekly jobs to do (like put together crib, organize clothes, order car-seat cover, etc) and do one at a time so I don't feel so overwhelmed.


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## Jo_Bean

It was quick wasn't it! I have a feeling that with Christmas these next few weeks will fly by too!

Kellen, if you do agree to go, then you should tell him that you are reserving the right to cancel at the last minute if you don't feel up to it. You will be tired by then. I found it hard enough to cope with the inlaws for a week at 23 weeks and I had much more patience then!

I feel a bit bad because we will only be staying at my mum's for about 3 hours on Christmas Day, but she said we can't bring the dog because my Grandma will be there and she is frail and my dog is huge. That's fine but I'm not leaving him alone on Christmas Day stuck in the house for more than 5 hours! Even that feels mean to me as he's not used to being on his own. I actually think when it comes to it, I will be pleased that we will be going home early as I will want my comfy sofa and be very tired!


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## SierraJourney

No results call today from the doctor. :( Does that mean everything is okay? I got so busy at work that I forgot to call to get results. :( My pelvis and vagina have been hurting on and off today, but nothing like yesterday. 

Anyone else getting sharp "twinges" around where your cervix is (or at least that's where I'm assuming it's coming from)?


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## wamommy

Yes!! LOL It's the weirdest feeling. To me it feels like something is scratching at my cervix from the inside. It's random and infrequent, but I know exactly what you mean.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> Yes!! LOL It's the weirdest feeling. To me it feels like something is scratching at my cervix from the inside. It's random and infrequent, but I know exactly what you mean.

Oh good! lol I keep telling DH that baby is biting me! haha. It feels like a tiny stab or something!


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## wamommy

:rofl: at biting...lol.

I had DH take a 3rd tri pic today! I'm not feeling super cute these days, but I don't want to have this baby and have NO pictures of my pregnancy. Anyhow, here it is! Excuse the sweats, it was just after pilates.
 



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## Jo_Bean

What a perfectly neat bump you have!!


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## DragonflyWing

Lovely bump, wamommy!

And yes to the cervix twinges...both of my babies are breech, so I'm getting lots of kicks in that area, that'll definitely wake you up! 

I got a call from my doctor's office today, the fetal fibronectin test was negative, which means it's very unlikely I will go into labor in the next few weeks, yay! Also, my liver enzymes and blood count were within normal limits.


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## helena

Great news dragon, beautiful bump wamommy. I haven't had any scratching by the cervix yet but I did with my last and I remember describing it as like him using his fingernails. When he was born he had really long nails!..


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## SierraJourney

Wonderful news Dragon!! 

Wamommy---you are so cute! I feel very frumpy compared to your cute bump! lol I'll have to get a picture soon to post. . .

My baby shower is tomorrow! I'm so excited!! I just can't wait to show off my bump and spend a few hours ooing and ahhing over my baby! :)

And when I got to work today, a lady in my office had a bag of baby clothes on my desk from her grandson! SO CUTE! I like today already! :)


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## Kellen

Congrats, Dragon! That is fantastic news!

Wamommy, that is an adorable bump. I would have never guessed those were workout clothes if you hadn't said anything.

Sierra, I'm glad you're feeling better and I hope they call today.

We went to our water birth class last night. It was pretty cool. Basically it outlined the pros and cons and how to do it. The nurse was talking about whether or not your a modest person and having DH do nipple stimulation in the pool to help with contractions. My lovely *hmmm* DH proceeded to tell that class that he was in no way modest and would do this task to the best of his ability. Also he is planning to get a speedo for the birthing pool.:dohh:

The nurse encouraged us to sign up for a labor/delivery/postpartum class... mainly so DH can learn massage techniques to use on me while in labor. The hospital offers the class on specific Saturdays so now we just need to figure out which Saturday DH needs to schedule off. After watching all the delivery movies last night I am now very curious as to how I will react during labor. :shrug:I'm not big on screaming. I figure I will keep a steady stream of highbrow insults flowing at whomever happens to be near. I also tend to recite books when in pain. This should be interesting...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, that is hilarious about your husband!! :rofl: My DH is the exact opposite----he would turn all red and tell me he's NEVER doing that in front of people. :haha: 

I'm very interested to see how I will be during labor as well. DH thinks I'm going to be extremely emotional and clingy (which I tend to be like when I'm in pain). :)

For those that have kids already---how were you during their births?


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## wamommy

Thanks for all of the nice comments, ladies! I know I tend to be too hard on myself, but I'm really working on it!! :D

Dragon, YAY on your test results!! I'm glad the twins are happy in there, and content to stay a while longer to grow big and strong.

Sierra, did you ever hear back from your DR about your test? How are the cramps?
I also can't wait to hear about the baby shower. 

As for labor, I handled it a bit differently than I thought I would. I took classes on unmedicated birth, and watched a ton of videos where the women were able to stay SO serene and calm. I thought I could do that...lol...uh, no. I did well, and was able to go unmedicated, but I sounded like a dying water buffalo, and got really scared right before having to push. The first time I had my Mom on one side and DH on the other, and I just started saying "I can't do it, I'm scared" over and over. Luckily, your body MAKES you do it. The second labor was SOOO fast that I didn't have time to do much of anything. We rushed to the hospital and I was already fully dilated, ready to push. Again with the water buffalo, an amazing nurse who looked me right in the eye and kept me focused, and in the video (yes, I let DH take a video, cringe) I keep talking to my then 18-month-old, telling her not to worry, that Mommy was ok...lol. All in all I'm pretty proud of how I handled it, but am aware that every labor and birth is different, and I can't predict how this one will go!

As for DH in a speedo, just the mental image right now made me laugh!! I don't think I could take it during delivery!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---LOVE the story! Water buffalo makes me laugh. :haha: 

My doctor said that the lab decided to run cultures---so they take 72 hours. . .so I won't know results until Monday. However, they said since I am still having cramps (and I am. . .more like just heaviness and pressure), they want me to start on an antibiotic just in case it is a UTI. So, I have to pick up antibiotics tonight and take them until Monday--on Monday they will call and tell me to either stop the antibiotics or continue to take them (depending on what the cultures say). I hate taking antibiotics if I really don't have something, but DH would rather me take them in case it's a UTI to protect baby. So, I'm going to do it. I'm nervous, though, with all of this waiting----I know it's probably nothing, but what if it's not a UTI but something more serious and we are just spending all of this time WAITING? I know the doctor knows what she is doing, but still. . .makes me anxious. . . . :(


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## Kellen

Wamommy, those are two fantastic birth stories. I hope to labor at home for as long as possible, but I have a feeling DH will want to rush me off to the hospital as soon as I say: "Ouch!"

Sierra, I'm sorry you won't get your results back until Monday, but I am glad that they are taking preventative measures. I hate taking medicine as well, but I would do anything for my little girl to make sure she is safe.

DH just called. He is fed up with his employees. One girl is making it hard on him. One of the assistant managers just told him that he has to work Christmas Eve because otherwise he is singling her out. This makes no sense since he always Sunday/Monday off and has since the store opened in July. So he asked if I would draft a resignation letter for him since we will be in Texas on Christmas Eve. I told him I wasn't sure I could make the journey. His response: "So I shouldn't resign because we aren't going to Texas?" I said: "You can go, but I'm not sure how my body will handle it. I will just stay home and you can go." DH: "Don't draft the letter. We'll talk about this later."
Now I feel bad for compounding his problems. :(


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## helena

Water buffalo! Hahahaaaa.

Both my births were c sections. Scheduled. They were fine. Scarey but exciting and amazing. I only have mild fear about this one, but in geneal I am ok with the idea of another section. 
If anyone ends up having a section try and not worry. I read lots of horror stories about them but I had fantastic experiences and recovery was fine. In fact I know a fair few who ended up with c sections and they were all fine. 
It was all a bit uncomfortable, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think I did too badly if I can describe the birth of my sons as "a bit uncomfortable"! Lol.

Sierra, I won't say to not worry as that would sound patronizing.i would worry too, anything unknown is Scarey right now with our health I find. Instead I will just give you a hug (((hug))). Antibiotics won't do any harm whatever the final verdict. Xxx


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, I know you feel bad, but it has to be discussed sometime. . .maybe now it is better to get it all out in the open? I hope the conversation goes well. I know it's hard. :(


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Water buffalo! Hahahaaaa.
> 
> Both my births were c sections. Scheduled. They were fine. Scarey but exciting and amazing. I only have mild fear about this one, but in geneal I am ok with the idea of another section.
> If anyone ends up having a section try and not worry. I read lots of horror stories about them but I had fantastic experiences and recovery was fine. In fact I know a fair few who ended up with c sections and they were all fine.
> It was all a bit uncomfortable, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think I did too badly if I can describe the birth of my sons as "a bit uncomfortable"! Lol.
> 
> Sierra, I won't say to not worry as that would sound patronizing.i would worry too, anything unknown is Scarey right now with our health I find. Instead I will just give you a hug (((hug))). Antibiotics won't do any harm whatever the final verdict. Xxx

Thanks helena. I appreciate it. :hugs:


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## helena

Oh deary me. Emotional outbursts on a high today. Lost count of my sobbing outbursts. Mostly related to my children...our 4 year old and I are really clashing just now, he is rebelling and trying to work out the house hierarchy I think. Oh so drained. To top it all DH was called into work this afternoon and no idea when he may be able to get home this eve...oh roll on a rand new day!


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry, Helena. That's so hard! Hopefully a new day will bring a better mood for your little one. As for crying, let it out! I hope your DH is home soon to give you a long break :hugs:

Sierra, any news?

Kellen, did you and DH have a chance to talk?


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## helena

A much better day today. My son tried harder as did I. And we had a nice day. I won't a lot more time doing hands on things with him and that helped. I think the fact. Am tired and pregnant and can't run about the same with him is tough on him. That and the fact that 4 is a tough age....I find it the hardest yet! Terrible twos were a breeze...:)

Baby really moving a lot today, perhaps she prefers the happy me. Nd I read my boys lts of stories today, I think she likes my adding voice :) She is really filling the space, kicking me right low down a wha seems to be just about inside..and right at the top of the bump. Maybe she is going to be tall!

Pointless post but just saying hi x


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## SierraJourney

helena---glad to hear things are going better! I, too, feel that baby is just kicking all over. Feels like his little foot is going to pop right out of my you-know-what sometimes! :haha:

Wamommy---no news yet. I haven't been as crampy lately, so that's good. I'm expecting a phone call today, but I'm not holding my breath. I think since it's probably nothing "serious", I haven't been put on the 'priority list'. :(

On better news, I had my baby shower on Saturday! Got tons of great stuff, and it was really fun! Everyone said I look like I'm all baby and haven't gained a pound---so of course that made me feel really good (especially knowing that I've gained 18 pounds!) :) 

My Mum and sisters bought us a beautiful pack-n-play and highchair, we got out bedroom set for baby, baby monitors, an umbrella stroller, TONS of books, a diaper bag, some sleep sacks, clothes, bathtub, bathtoys, etc. All very nice stuff--I'm super excited! My older sister and her family moved out of our house yesterday, so I think this week I might try to get DH to put up the crib and help me set up some of the new stuff! 

What I find amazing, though, is after all of this stuff that we got this weekend, I still feel like we need TONS more. For instance, we still need: a mattress, swaddlers, bottles, pacifiers, a jogging stroller, sheets, socks, white onsies, pjs, diapers, wipes, a changing pad, etc. The list goes on and on. . . We're hoping to hit the after Christmas sales to finish up everything we need for baby. 

How is everyone else doing with what they need?


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## DragonflyWing

Sounds like a great shower, Sierra! We got a ton of great stuff, too...I think we have pretty much everything we need. In fact, we got lots of duplicates, so I returned a bunch of things to Babies R Us yesterday...our gift cards and store credit now add up to over $600! I'm sure we'll be getting lots of diapers!

We plan to have the babies sleep in the bassinet of a pack n play for the first few months, and we have one that was given to us by my sister in law...but we might pick up a second one so we have one to travel with and one more permanently in place. Haven't decided yet. Where will you all have your babies sleep? Crib, bassinet, co-sleep?


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> Sounds like a great shower, Sierra! We got a ton of great stuff, too...I think we have pretty much everything we need. In fact, we got lots of duplicates, so I returned a bunch of things to Babies R Us yesterday...our gift cards and store credit now add up to over $600! I'm sure we'll be getting lots of diapers!
> 
> We plan to have the babies sleep in the bassinet of a pack n play for the first few months, and we have one that was given to us by my sister in law...but we might pick up a second one so we have one to travel with and one more permanently in place. Haven't decided yet. Where will you all have your babies sleep? Crib, bassinet, co-sleep?

We have a crib for the evenings (upstairs), and I will probably set up a pack-n-play downstairs for his naps since my office will be downstairs---that way I won't have to keep going up and down stairs during "work hours". I haven't decided for sure or not---but if nothing else, then the pack-n-play will be for when we travel (which we travel a lot!). The pack-n-play also has a bassinet and changing table, so I might leave that up downstairs as well for quick diaper changes! :) 

I can't believe how much store credit you have! That's wonderful!!!


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## wamommy

Oh, the baby showers sound amazing! I'm so glad you have all of the major stuff covered, and getting the rest of the things on the list shouldn't be too bad, especially considering we have 10-12 weeks to go!

I'm actually having a mini panic attack today about being ready for baby. All we have, literally, is a stack of sleepers (maybe 8?) a few onesies and pants, and a stack of hats. That's it.... Every time I mention getting ready for baby DH says, "we have plenty of time!" Ya, but the stress of having NOTHING DONE is starting to make me want to cry! Also, we don't have an extra room for a nursery, so LO will be sleeping in my room, which is totally fine... but I've been looking at pics of other people's nurseries and it makes me a bit sad! DH doesn't even want to put together a crib! He says we have 2 pack and plays (one small, one larger with the changing table in it) and we'll just use one upstairs and one downstairs. I know it's our third baby, but I feel like he's irritated to have to do ANYTHING to prepare. I already do ALL of the housework and cooking, and now feel like everything "baby" is being dumped in my lap too!!

I'm sorry :blush: I'm having one of those days... just feeling overwhelmed. I'll try to turn it around as the day goes on.


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## helena

Hi all, sounds like a great shower Sierra. 
Oh yes it certainly seems like baby needs a lot of stuff.
As I have had two already I have a lot things, but sold a lot too, thinking two babies would be enough... Doh.
I still need to sort through the baby clothes to see what we have and what I gave away...
Otherwise I also need a mattress. Baby will sleep on a full size cot from the start. Maybe on our room for a few days then in her room, right next to us. I will see though, its a rough plan. I find babies are such noisy sleepers! I slept so much better with my second son in the other room. I knew I would hear a cry but I wasn't woken by every snuffle.
Wamommy don't worry, my baby's room is still a play room full of cars and diggers. Am not sure they will find somewhere else to be put before baby is here... 
I also need to buy some silver nipple cups - meant to be great at helping heal sore nips when feeding. It was painful for me both times. Google silver nipple angel cup and they should pop up. Expensive but I want to try.


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## SierraJourney

Aww wamommy! That's terrible---I'm in the preparing mode, too---except I feel that DH is at least helping me somewhat. It's our instinct as women and as pregnant women to prepare. . .and it would be a lot easier if your DH could help. I keep telling my DH that we might have time, but what if baby comes early? I realistically want to get everything done by mid-January, just in case. It's always a possibility that baby might come early---and you don't want to be caught unprepared. You shouldn't have to do it by yourself. I know that doesn't help, but know that I agree with you. :flower:

helena---I'll definitely look those up! I'm so worried about sore nipples! :wacko:


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## Kellen

Hello Everyone,

DH and I finally had the talk. More like I had the talk with his mother and then he got mad because she agreed that I shouldn't travel. :haha: Anyways, he is now reconciled to the fact that we will be staying home for Christmas; he isn't happy, but I think he knew it was coming. I just sprung it on him at a bad time.

This weekend I rearranged the whole house. Well, actually I moved the office into the kitchen and the futon from the living room into the spare bedroom. (Okay, so DH and SIL moved the futon while I stood around and made helpful suggestions). It was a lot of work because I thoroughly cleaned everything with my steamer and vacuum. My parents are staying with us for 10 days so I thought they might like a room to themselves instead of the living room.

I am excited about them coming, but it is somewhat damped by my 6 month review at work. Apparently I am not aggressive enough and they are worried that I don't have the passion to do my job. I need to be more vocal... Okay, I guess that is what I will do. Kind of a bummer since my boss was gone for 16 weeks having a baby. Would have been nice to have someone to give me direction... And apparently I'm a horrible public speaker.

SIL gave me a bunch of baby clothes yesterday. Some I will be keeping others I will be throwing out. She does not believe in buying new clothes so she only shops at thrift stores. Some of the clothes are cute, but others are really stained. I appreciated the gesture. The only gear we have for the baby is a car seat/stroller combo, walker (which I'm tempted to throw out or give away), crib bedding, mobile, soap, some clothes and that is about it. My mom's friends are throwing her a "grandma shower" in either December or January so I'm hoping to get some nice things from that. It is hard when everyone is 3000mi+ away.


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## helena

https://www.breastangels.co.uk/how-it-works.html this is them. 
I also want some silk breast pads (how posh!) as they are less likely to stick to sore cracked nips. Again a bit pricey but hey, I am worth it!.. Them and the cups will be my Christmas present :)


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## helena

So glad you got the traveling dilemma sorted keller! And yay for mother in law agreeing ! Xx


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## wamommy

Yay, Kellen! I'm so glad! One less thing to worry about :D What a great idea going straight to you MIL to talk, since she would be likely to understand!

Helena, those silver cups look amazing! I might have to splurge and get them for myself :D I used regular pads last time, and they stick to the nipples and make things worse! 

We're having a storm here. It's kind of exciting! Fingers crossed the power doesn't go out, although even that might be fun. The kids would enjoy "camping" in the living room, lol.


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## Kellen

Helena, those cups do look interesting. I am planning to try to breastfeed, but since this is my first I can only imagine the pain and suffering. lol... I bookmarked that sight for future reference. Thanks!

Wamommy - she was a lot more understanding that I had expected since she was the one pushing for us to come. DH angrily dialed the number said: "My wife has something to tell you about Christmas. *to me* I don't need the phone back." Stomp, stomp, stomp (I think toddler years will be easy compared to adult tantrums). MIL told me she thought I was a crazy woman for even thinking about making a trip at that time. She also believes I have completely lost it with wanting to have a non-medicated birth. Her words: "You won't be able to live without some sort of pain relief." My response: "Hence why we are doing a waterbirth. It helps take the pressure off and soothes the muscles." MIL: "You'll get the epidural." This makes me just want to prove that I can do it without. Grrr...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---yay for agreeing MIL!!! That's wonderful! DH will get over it. . .(and I completely agree that adult tantrums are the WORST!) :haha:

And helena, I want those silver cups, too! I wonder if I can get that as my Christmas present from DH?! :)


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## DragonflyWing

LOL @ adult tantrums...I'm glad you got it straightened out, though, Kellen. You must feel relieved now that it's decided.

DH and I had a bit of a tiff on Saturday. We went out to dinner together, and while we were eating, his brother called his cell phone. Now, I don't have any problem with checking or even answering your cell phone during dinner...you never know when there can be an emergency. However, DH proceeded to sit and chat to his brother for the next 20 minutes about his brother's dog, while I sat there essentially eating by myself. After that 20 minutes went by, I said quietly "I think it might be a little rude to sit on the phone for our whole dinner." I tried to be as diplomatic and non-confrontational about it, I wasn't mad, I was just a little annoyed. I even smiled as I said it. 

HOWEVER, DH looked totally offended, said to his brother in a sarcastic tone "I better go, Jenna says I'm being rude...No, we're just out eating dinner...haha what else is new?" I obviously couldn't hear what his brother was saying, but I got the feeling he also thought I was out of line. Then DH hung up and proceeded to give me the silent treatment for the entire rest of dinner, only answering me in monosyllables until after we got home. A little while later, it seemed like he got over it, and he's been totally normal since then. What the heck?! 

This was so out of character for DH. He regularly comments on how rude other people can be with their cell phones, and he almost never uses his (it's prepaid so he saves his minutes as much as possible). On top of that, he has never given me the silent treatment like that before. We just don't treat each other that way. I was very hurt! Do you all think I was out of line? Do you think it's rude to talk on your phone for more than a few minutes while you're out to dinner with someone?

On a more positive note, I belong to a local FreeCycle group, and a lovely woman gave me a TON of baby girl clothes! One paper grocery bag FULL of newborn-3months clothes, including outfits, onesies, sleepers, gowns, hats and scratch mittens, plus another grocery bag with a diaper bag plus 2 baby slings!! All in great shape, all totally free! I feel so lucky :)


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, I don't think you were out of line at all! Your DH should have said, "I'm out to dinner with my beautiful wife, I'll call you back when we are finished." Poop on him :ninja:


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--I don't think you were out of line at all. My DH gets upset if I talk on the phone for too long in the car---I can't imagine doing it during dinner! I would have done the same thing if I were you! 

That's WONDERFUL about the free stuff! Sounds like a nice program!!


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## Kellen

Dragon, I don't think you were out of line at all. Our rule is that we leave our phones in the car unless we know that there is a possible family emergency that we need to be connected to. Even then we get up and leave the table so as not to interrupt the other diners. Men are weird and moody sometimes. :shrug: But that is awesome about the free clothes!

My parents are finally here and it doesn't seem quite really yet. We got to the airport about 15 minutes before their flight was supposed to arrive. Since when do cell phone waiting areas close at midnight?! We got kicked out by security. DH is too cheap to pay for parking so we slooooowly drove in circles and were yelled at by the police for holding up traffic... at 1am (aka, there was no traffic). Then it took an hour for the groundcrew to unload the plane because someone hadn't realized that three flights were coming in at the same time and only scheduled 1 crew... Brilliant!

DH and I both went to maritime academies for our undergrad degrees so we agreed upon a nautical theme. My mom brought the cutest mobile. It has little ships and fishes and sings Brahms Lullaby. Also an adorable striped sailor suite with a hoodie jacket.


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## SierraJourney

That sounds adorable Kellen! :) Sorry about the airport situation, but glad they arrived safely!


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## helena

Have fun with your folks Kellen!
Dragon - I would be hurt too. Not so much by the call but by the bit afterwards. I hate not finalizing a discussion or argument, and slent treatment isn't fair! It's like I could never go to sleep without settling a row. DH could.
Funny creatures.
Put it to one side, maybe he is hormonal too!? Just clear the air, that's wha I would do. Just to get the sad feeling to go away. Then have a big hug and it will all be fine, xxx


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## Kellen

Random fluff post alert!

Little Miss is making big movements! I'm fairly certain she turned a couple of days ago and now we can almost see little elbows and knees when she pushes out. If I place my hand directly against my skin there are times when I can actually fee the outline of her toes! I know it is slightly gushy and ridiculous on my part, but it is so fun and exciting.

I also just passed out for 15 minutes in my office chair. Who'da thunk that only getting three hours of sleep would make me tired after lunch? DH has to work late tonight because of his employees was fired this weekend. So after I get off work I'll snag my parents (who are stranded at my house with only my motorcycle for transportation) and go visit him.

Has anyone began charting their baby's movement? I know at 28 weeks we are supposed to watch for decreases. Right now I can guarantee that my little acrobat is alive and kicking, and punching, and headbutting, and... I think I might start doing it just as an interesting statistical comparison.


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## Kim2012

Hello ladies, so much to catch on.Hope everyone is doing well.

I have been having blood tests every 2 weeks, they said i was aneamic and then have been on iron tablets!But the problem is my platelets they are continuously going down and this has an effect on blood clotting.They are now below 100.I had a C-section with my DS mainly because my pelvic passage was too small.I had decided on having a c-section again becoz I am not really sure the pelvic passage is wide enough this time.But the low platelets are now an issue.Results will be sent to my OB who will decide what to do.

I know they may say to monitor them until later but I am just so worried.


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## Kellen

Kim - I am so sorry to hear about your anemia and clotting factor. I hope that everything turns out okay and that you're able to have the birth that you want.


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## wamommy

Kim, I'm so sorry you have one more thing to worry about! I'm glad the doctors are monitoring you well, though, and I hope things improve!

I saw a midwife with my last baby and she did a pelvic exam and said "what a beautiful birth canal!" Uh, thanks? lol... I guess that means my pelvic passage is super wide, which is weird, since I have rather narrow hips for my height. 

Kellen, that's too cute about the movements! I don't think my LO has flipped head down yet, because I can sometimes feel a hard ball at the top of my bump which I'm fairly certain is his head. I suppose it could be a butt? I don't know, lol. I posted in 3rd tri yesterday about my bump getting SUPER hard when I was working out. It totally freaked me out. I could really feel exactly where baby was lying and my bump was rock hard and burned. I stopped working out and waited for it to go away, but it was scary! I think Braxton Hicks are just getting more intense and I should probably take it easy for the last couple of months. Has anyone else had a super hard tummy lately?


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## helena

Hang on one minute!....You work out wamommy?? Wowee, so active! 

I haven't started monitoring movements as such, I didn't with any of mine. I find this baby harder as sometimes she is so quiet, I guess it's the anterior placenta. I suspect counting movements may stress me out... Hardly feel anything when busy.
Hi Kim! Hope your doc has some answers soon. It must be terrifying. A friend of mine has a disorder where she has issues with clotting too. She gave birth vaginaly with no issues blood wise. But she had no further complications regarding size of her pelvis etc. she did have to give birth in our central university hospital and not the smaller clinic she wanted ideally since she needed specialists on hand. But all was good. She has to lovely kiddos now. Keeps updated xxx


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## wamommy

helena said:


> Hang on one minute!....You work out wamommy?? Wowee, so active!

:rofl: It's not nearly as impressive as it sounds! I do an hour pilates/weights/low impact every other day. I was an athlete up until having kids (competitive rock climbing) so I try really hard to stay fit. Unfortunately my body has different plans this pregnancy, and I'm putting on all kind of jiggly weight!! Ah well, there's a world of time afterward to get back into shape.


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## SierraJourney

Still sounds impressive to me. . . :blush: My belly starts aching on just the short walks I try to do throughout the week! :( Way to go wamommy! :)


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## helena

I get tired and out of puff walking up stairs!


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## Jo_Bean

Sometimes I get short of breath whilst talking!


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## Kim2012

Just when I thought the day had ended, received the call, platelets levels still going down.Will have another blood test in 2 weeks and then go see my OB on the 5th of Dec to discuss birth option again!!!:cry:

Wamommy how did they do the pelvic exam for u? I wish they could do a pelvic exam for me and tell me it has widened.I had one with DS and from the outside all looked fine but its from the inside where the pelvic bones wont moves which is funny enough because i have wide hips!!:shrug:

Helena i am now Thinking VBAC but still scared about the pelvic passage issues.

I havent started counting movements, I did it around week 24 with the kick counter on the SMA app and found it too tiring as LO was kicking no stop!I stopped since then and and havent started as the patterns have changed and the LO is still super active. I think LO is actually biting:haha: my lower abdomen as someone here said before,I cant figure out what parts of body would make such sensations!!

LO was head down at my 28wk appointment but midwife says that at this stage they still have room to wriggle around and still be in other positions.

Wamommy your body must still be superactive!! a 10min walk in the morning for sch run leaves me literally dead!!:dohh:


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## helena

Oh sorry for your bad news Kim! Xx

I feel the need for a confession.. I have eaten nearly my body weight in flapjack today...


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## Kellen

Kim - I am sorry to hear that your platelets are still dropping.

Helena- that is just the laugh I needed at this moment.

Three minutes before the alarm was set to go off this morning I woke with a horrible cramp in my right calf. It literally felt like someone had stuck a knife in my leg and was slowly removing tendons and ligaments. Ouch! I managed to roll onto my left side and do a gentle stretch and that stopped the pain. My muscles in that leg still very really tight though.

Sciatica has decided to pay me a visit today as well. Had to have DH help put socks on this morning while getting dressed. Thankfully traffic was lighter than normal on my way to work, but I was still in considerable pain from being seated. Unfortunately our chiropractor is out for the holiday until Monday. :(

My folks are offering to buy us either a co-sleeper or pack'n'play (with bassinet/changing table combo). There are benefits to both. What are your opinions?


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## DragonflyWing

Quick update: NST this morning went well, can't believe we'll be 28 weeks tomorrow! No contractions and BP looks good again. Doctor says the bump is measuring 40 weeks already! SPD is tolerable, I found that a heating pad helps as long as I consistently use it every night. Overall feeling pretty good!

I can't imagine working out right now, though! I have to walk really slowly so as not to aggravate my pelvis, and most exercise motions would be out of the question. I admire you if you can still work out!

OT, but I suddenly have the urge to make things...last night I made a gallon (!) of chili, and today I'm making 6 dozen chocolate chip cookies. I might make a batch of soap too.


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> Oh sorry for your bad news Kim! Xx
> 
> I feel the need for a confession.. I have eaten nearly my body weight in flapjack today...

Ha ha am giggling at this :haha: but I had beef caserole in the slow cooker which was meant for dinner for 3 and ooooops its all gone and I am not in the mood to cook again.DS and DH will have to settle for a take away which I am sure to join in.I have been super hungry of late....and am not going on the scale:nope:


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## wamommy

LOL Helena! 

Kellen, a full size pack and play is useful for longer, but for the first few months a co-sleeper is amazing. We have a small pack and play (kind of like a cross between a bassinet and a pack and play) upstairs, and a full size with changer downstairs. I'd say either one is a great option! What a nice gift :D

Kim, I'm so sorry about your platelets :( I really hope they get it sorted out so that you can have the birth you want. The internal pelvic exam I had with DDs started at 36 weeks (I think!) and they were just like during a regular exam when the Dr has one hand inside and then pushes down on your tummy with the other, sort of feeling around. It's NOT comfortable, but I think it's the best way for them to find baby's position, as well as predict some complications. I had that done every week for the last few weeks. I think maybe it has more to do with bone shape than width? I don't know, but I really hope it works out.

DragonflyWing, I'm so glad you're doing well!! I can't believe we're 28 weeks either! I mentally consider this V-day, since the survival rate jumps up dramatically this week :D Save some chili for me! THat sounds SO good on this rainy, cold day!


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## helena

Hahahaaaa Kim. Made me laugh out loud!
I have been in a baking and cooking frenzy for days.. Rice pudding, tarts, homeade ice cream, curries, bolognaise, short bread, flapjacks, ...
All from scratch. Must be the pre nesting stage Dragon!
You make soap??


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## SierraJourney

Kim ---so sorry to hear about your platelets! Hopefully you get some more comforting news at your next appointment! :hugs:

Kellen, I personally would go for the pack n play---you can take it with you when you travel, move it wherever you want whenever you want, and it's compact and usually easy to put together and take down! I love the one I got! 

As far as cooking goes. . .I haven't been super motivated, but I have tons of great ideas! ;)


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## Jo_Bean

I've been cooking too! Soups, pies, chilli, flapjacks and home made jammie dodgers! Must e nesting! I also just felt the urge to wash the floor! :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

I'm so proud of myself with the cooking lol...I am NOT much of a homemaker, and I hardly ever cook. If it were up to me, I'd get takeout pretty much every day of the week. Thankfully, DH likes to cook and he feeds me pretty often :)

My only two claims to fame are my chili and my chocolate chip cookies...DH has been begging me to make the cookies, and I said I would make some to bring to Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow. He said absolutely not, we will make something from a box mix for that, and I should make the cookies just for us! :haha: As for the chili, we didn't eat any, we just put it in the freezer for when the babies arrive. It should make 4 meals for us, and that's 4 less meals we'll have to think about!

Yes, I make soap! I haven't made any since I've been pregnant, as I really shouldn't be breathing the lye fumes. I've really had the urge to make some lately, though. If I make a batch now, they'll be nice and cured by the time the babies arrive. I was thinking of making a really gentle castille soap with lavender to use for their first baths <3 That's gentler than any commercial baby wash!


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## SierraJourney

Dargon--that's so cute to make the soap for their first baths!! I'm gushing right now--you should totally do it! :)


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## wamommy

Oh my, ladies!! You are all inspirational! I am a terrible cook, and usually resort to fairly simple recipes at home. Proof of this is that when I asked what I could bring to my Mom's for Thanksgiving tomorrow, they told me to BUY a dessert to bring!!


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## Kellen

Dragon that is so crafty! I am impaired when it comes to making homey things like that. I think my one and only success was candles from melted down crayons with a bunch of funky shaped glass jars.

DH was super happy with me cooking over the weekend. First there was the work potluck on Friday so I bought chili and passed it off as my own (and it was a hit. Several people said I should enter it in next years chili cook off :haha:). Then we had a Thanksgiving dinner after church on Sunday so I made a big pot of chicken, potato, rice and carrot soup as well as a pan of impossibly easy hamburger pie. We have enough food to feed us and my parents well into the weekend...

However, I am getting off work early today and going food shopping with my mom. She (according to the latest text) rearranged the fridge and freezer so that there will be room for all the food we will be getting. I don't know if my DH and dad will be able to move after Thursday when we feed them. But I am making DH drive me to KMart at 4:30am on Thanksgiving to pick out his Christmas present. We don't have a TV and he really wants one. They have 32" for $97 that morning. I told him: "If you really want a TV you will go stand in line. I will sit in the car with hot chocolate and wait until the doors open. Then I will join you." He agree. :rofl:


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## DragonflyWing

Hehe DH is saying I shouldn't make the soap, since I already have a perfectly good lemongrass/chamomile/calendula castille soap already made. He thinks I should just use that on the babies. Sure, that would be fine, but I didn't make it for them...I want something that I made especially for them :D


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## Jo_Bean

aw Dragon, make the soap then! You'll use it anyway and it will be lovely that you made it for them :D


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## helena

28 weeks! Yeeeha! Well done all!!! 
if my c section is at 38 weeks ,which is was before (in fact my first was scheduled at 37 weeks 6 days) it is in 10 weeks time. Woweeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Since this will be my last pregnancy I want to really enjoy the last weeks. But seems I am too busy to get a chance!...


This week is super busy. Both my children have been ill, so its defiantely a 24 hour job at the mo, and husband working late most nights. So tired! .....my 4 year old was sick last night so came in with us. He was so wriggly I ended up on the sofa! Hopefully it will be a quieter night tonight.


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## wamommy

I can't believe we're 28 weeks!!! :yipee:

Happy Thanksgiving! We're watching the Macy's Parade on tv and getting ready to head over to Grandma's. I'm so thankful this day to have a loving family! I hope you all enjoy this day, even those that don't celebrate Thanksgiving, lol.


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## helena

Check up today. Baby is head up (shows how muc I know I thought the other way), all good and going as planned. I gained about a pound a week for the last month, just under 2 kilo more. Doc said that was fine. :)
Secretary said I can be pretty sure baby will be born on the 1st feb. she put the request in to the hospital and usually it is fine she said. So may get grandparents to book their flights. 10 weeks!


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## Jo_Bean

Wow Helena! That certainly isn't long at all is it! :wohoo:


----------



## helena

I know. Feel a bit of a cheat pushing to the front of the queue! Lol
But I mabe dragon will beat me with the twins.
Xx


----------



## wamommy

How exciting, Helena! 10 weeks seems SO close now! Let the countdown begin :D


----------



## Jo_Bean

You never know! You can tell us all what it's like :haha:

Just think, once Christmas has been and gone, it will be 5 weeks!


----------



## DragonflyWing

Wow, helena, that's so exciting! My doctor doesn't expect that I'll go past 36 weeks, so I may end up being the first to go! That's scary, I may have less than 8 weeks left!

At least one of the babies moved way down on Wednesday, and it felt like that were living in my butt lol :haha: very uncomfortable, it was hard to sit without pain. Felt like whenever I bend over they were getting squished in my pelvis. It's been better today, so they must have shifted a bit!


----------



## wamommy

Ouch, Dragonfly... but "living in my butt" made me laugh too!!

I'm feeling like a huge jerk today. I am generally very nice to people and try not to judge, but there is a woman in my church who likes to make comments about how she raises her kids in a way that is "better" than other women. She even made a comment in a women's group once that was directed at "some people" which was pretty obviously about my kids and their behavior during church. I took offense, felt like a bad mom, and started to dislike this woman. When I got my bfp I found out she was a month or two ahead of me in pregnancy, and my first thought was "oh great, we have to be pregnant together." I know, I know, petty!! 

Anyhow, I heard whispers about her baby here and there having a "problem," but I thought it was just gossip and never cared to get involved. I got an email today from the leader of our women's group to pray for this woman because her baby was born 3 days ago and passed away on Thanksgiving. She had Trisomy 18.

I feel like such a jerk. Maybe she was condescending or in a foul mood for a VERY good reason, and I was much too quick to judge. When I got the email I sat staring at my computer screen with tears streaming down my cheeks. Here I am complaining about my back, my weight, my messy house, and this poor family just lost a full term baby girl. Ugh... I will certainly be counting my blessings tonight!

Sorry if that's a depressing story, but I felt like telling someone who would understand HOW sad it really is... DH just stared at me as I sat there crying and said, "but you don't even like her." SOOO? Men.


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## helena

Oh wamommy you are only human. You have every right to dislike judgemental people. 
Her loss is terrible, but you shouldnt feel bad at all, you ae just getting on with your life.
I am not saying "so".. But we can't all get depressed about everyone else's sadness. Enjoy your two and if you want to complain about backache you go ahead. Xxx


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## wamommy

Thank you, Helena :hugs: You're right, and I'll try to just let it go. 

How is everyone feeling? We must have some appointments coming this week. I have one Friday, anyone else? I'm assuming it's just a measure and check-up, and I have the diabetes test this week too. I can't wait to hear updates on everyone's little ones!


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## Jo_Bean

I have a 3D scan on Monday and my 28 week appointment on tues :yipee:


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## helena

a 3d, excellent! oh do share pictures with us!
the restults of my diabetes was all fine. my appointment with the doctor last wek was very biref, quick weigh in, quick check of babys heart rate, about 130, and that was that. no bloods taken. told to come back in a month. 

good luck with the sugar test wamommy. the worst thing about mine, apart from feeling a bit faint after, was that it took up th whole morning..

is your scan tomorrow a private one jo? oh i do wish we had booked one now!....wonder if it is too late to write to santa... x


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## Jo_Bean

Yes it's private. DH and I made a deal when I was freaking out and wanting to pay for an early scan and he didn't want me to and just wanted to get through it as quickly as possible. I agreed only if we could have a 3D one at 28 ish weeks. Also, my mum works for a private hospital so got us 20% off :thumbup:

I'm really looking forward to it, especially as all our scans turned into scientific study ones to do with her feet, this one will be nice and fluffy and purely indulgent, just to see what she looks like, no medical reasons :D


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## wamommy

I can't wait to see pictures, Jo!! How exciting :D 

We finally got around to ordering a blue car seat cover (using the same seat, but it was hot pink before!) and on Black Friday I picked up a beautiful baby blanket and sleeper for baby's trip home. I'm starting to feel a bit less unprepared :haha:

I hope everyone is enjoying the weekend!


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## SierraJourney

Good morning everyone! Well, I had a long Thanksgiving weekend, so just now getting back to the computer. :) 

Saturday I felt amazing, did tons of laundry, hung out with DH, put up Christmas lights, etc.

Yesterday, I felt like baby was trying to knock the energy right out of me! He kept sitting on my bladder (like every 20 minutes, I had to pee!), my belly was aching, I was really lethargic. The good thing was that he moved ALL day---which just melted my heart! :) DH felt him move so much, which I love to see. :) I never imagined the baby would be this active!

We did put up curtains in the baby's room this weekend, and a new light fixture. So, I keep peaking in there and smiling to myself. :) I'm hoping DH will set up the crib this week. :) YAY!

Today we have our 28 week check-up, so I'll try to post updates as soon as I can.


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## helena

Loving the image of you smiling at light fittings Sierra!

Jo, how was it?


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## SierraJourney

Just got back from my appointment. My midwife office added a 3rd midwife, and I'm not impressed. :growlmad: She's nice enough, but I have no relationship with her, she's super young (I'm thinking around 22 years old), and she didn't know what to put on my lab sheet, etc. I think she's just lacking confidence, but I really don't like that there is someone new part way through my pregnancy. Granted, they rotate, so I will see my regular two midwives for the next two appointments, but there is a chance that this girl will be at my birth! (I think one of the other ones will be there, too, but STILL!) :( 

Anyways, it was a good appointment anyways. As far as she could tell (and she does have all of the education for this), baby was head-down with his back to my left side. He promptly kicked her soundly when she was proding around. :) I'm measuring 29cm, which is slightly big but okay! (Maybe I won't go past my due-date! yay!). Baby's heartrate is at 130---and he soundly kicked the doppler wand when she was doing it, too! :) 


I gained 4 pounds this last month, which puts me up to 23 pounds gained so far! (Their target is for me to gain 25-30 pounds. . .at this rate, I think I'm going to be over that quickly!) 

I take my glucose test tomorrow morning before work (hopefully I don't feel sick because I have to work a full day after that!) 

Next Wednesday, December 5th, I have another appointment and an ultrasound to check to see if my placenta has moved away from my cervix. If it hasn't moved, then they will educate me on the possibilities of bleeding "out" or having complications due to this. (They think it will have moved so it shouldn't be a problem---but still--SCARY!)

All-in-all I love hearing my baby's heartbeat---he's wonderful! :cloud9:


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## wamommy

I'm glad your appointment went well, Sierra! It's too funny that baby kept kicking during the exam. It sounds like your LO had the same feeling about the new midwife :haha: I wouldn't worry about the weight gain, because since you're measuring ahead you must be all baby! I hope your Dec 5th appointment goes well, and that the placenta has moved up. How scary... but I'm sure it will be fine. 

Did they say you will be starting appointments every 2 weeks from now on? I forget when we switch. It still seems like forever between chances to have a little reassurance that all is well in there. At least we have the kicks and rolls which are amazingly comforting.


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## helena

Bleeding out?? What is that?! Wowee, sounds horrendous! Glad all went well toda.
I guess the new girl is just new and inexperienced. Hopefully she will attend a fair few births over the next 3 months before she gets to you.
29cm is fine, only 1 cm bigger than average i think? I think the cm tend to go with our number of weeks?
I have gained 12 kilos so far, multiply by 2.2 to be in pounds, soi am beating you ;)

Wamommy my appointment was last week and I have my next in 1 month. I thin it's only the last month that goes every 2 weeks for us? So maybe I will have one mid January and then c sec on 1st fe. Seems s close!

Been going through some clothes a friend gave us today, some for baby next summer. Seems a lifetime away!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy---yes, I start having appointments every 2 weeks from now on---I think the last month, they push it to once a week here---must be a US thing?

I think "bleeding out" is a horrible term for it, but that is what the new midwife said---I think it's basically a chance that the placenta will tear and cause me to lose a lot of blood if it doesn't move. . .so there may be complications from blood loss. But, again, they expect it will have moved---so I'm not worrying yet. :)

Glad to know someone is beating me on the weight gain, helena! ;) I ate SO good this last month, too, and still seem to be gaining. . .lol . . .but I'm thinking wamommy is right---hopefully it's all baby! :) And yes, the cm go with the number of weeks. . .so I'm mostly on target. . .but I was excited to know I'm a bit ahead of schedule. ;)

That's exciting to be going through clothes, helena---I hope you find a lot of really cute ones!!! I can't wait to "meet" all of our babies! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Well, it finally happened! On the way to work this morning, one of my naughty little monkeys kicked me right in the bladder and made me pee my pants! :haha:

It's a good thing I had used the bathroom just before I left the house, because there was only a tiny bit left in there, but it was still a major shock! I was just driving along when it happened and I was like "Ack! No, baby, no! Get off mama's bladder!" Not sure which one it was, but they gave me 3 super strong kicks one right after another in the same place...almost seemed intentional [-X hehe

Sierra, glad your appointment went well, although I understand why you'd be uncomfortable with a new midwife jumping in in the middle like this. Hopefully she's a good one!

Jo- can't wait to see your 3d scan pics! Every time I get an ultrasound, they try to get a 3d picture for me, but my two anterior placentas muck up the process. So far they've only been able to get one semi-good one. Last time I went, they may have been able to get a better one, but the babies were face to face, and Lily had her hand and her _foot_ in front of their faces haha!

I really enjoyed the long Thanksgiving weekend...just mostly lounged around the house and spent time with DH :) It was nice.


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## SierraJourney

Oh no Dragon---that's no fun---but hilarious! :) I'm sure my time will come. . . :)

Jo--I'm also anxiously awaiting 3d photos. . . I bet they are beautiful! :)


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## Jo_Bean

Hi :wave: sorry. The scan was at 7pm our time and we went out for tea afterwards. We haven't long got home. 

It was amazing!! :cloud9:

She is still a girl :pink: she is estimated to weigh about 3lbs and is measuring a couple of weeks ahead (31 weeks) but that's all estimations and not worrying. 

She was wriggling around, yawning, pulling faces and smiling :cloud9:


Spoiler
https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/52EBBF03-552F-42E2-87DA-55CA3BF9C941-19010-000018965315FE48.jpg

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/40B7F564-60AF-449C-89D7-1807835C259F-19010-000018965E392E2C.jpg

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/551D5D94-B50A-4563-B457-5185732D6CD7-19010-0000189667909DF2.jpg

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/C2569A8E-263D-4C6D-BA2E-C49282284351-19010-00001896706952E1.jpg

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/3BCABBF0-48C2-48AB-A67F-80ABFE36517B-19010-000018967B01ABBB.jpg

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/BnB%20stuff/D51EBEB0-50B3-4ACC-9D22-640A7B251888-19010-0000189683473E01.jpg


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## wamommy

Oh, Jo.... those are gorgeous!!! I'm insanely jealous here :haha: It must have been so wonderful to see her face! 31 weeks, wowza! That's great, though! You prob won't be going over due :D

DragonflyWing, I laughed when I read your post! Not at you, just at the situation...lol. My time has not yet come, but at least I know I won't be alone if I have an "incident" of my own!


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## Jo_Bean

Poor Dragon! :hugs: I'm sure it happens to the best of us!


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## helena

Lovely pics Jo! She looks so plump and lovely already. Lovely cheeks. Congrats xxx


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## SierraJourney

Beautiful Jo! Sooooo cute!


Just got done with my glucose test. . .ick. . . I have a headache and am dizzy. :( (Though I have to admit, it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be!) Yay for one more step done and that much closer to meeting him! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Great scan pics, Jo!! What a cutie!


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## Kellen

Those are fantastic pics, Jo! She looks like a real cutie. :)

Sounds like quite a bit has happened since I took a sabbatical from all electronics a week ago. I've been away (okay, away at my home hiding from the computer) for Thanksgiving and visiting with my parents since they are staying with us until Saturday. It has been an awesome visit. No hurt feelings and lots of cool new stuff! My DH is finally beginning to realize that they buy things for us not because we can't, but because they love us and just want us to have the best.

Last Wednesday we were scheduled for a 3D vanity scan and were planning on using the pictures for our Christmas cards. Baby girl refused to cooperate. Each time the tech went near her face with the wand she would arch her neck and back all the way and smash her face into my pelvis (which didn't really feel all that comfy). She is head down, which is good news. So we get to go back in tonight for another scan (for FREE!) and see if she will cooperate.

I was supposed to have my 28 week checkup with my midwife on Monday, but there was a death in family. So we are moved back to December 10th. After that we will be seeing the midwife every other week up until week 34, then we will be going in weekly.

My little girl is not as active this morning. :( I'm trying to get her jump started by eating an apple.


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## helena

Kellen, try chcolate if there isn't enough sugar in the apple. Works for me :) and it's as good an excuse as any!...


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## DragonflyWing

Hey Kellen, sorry LO wasn't cooperating for your scan! Hopefully she hams it up for the scan tonight :)

Had another NST this morning, and little girl was being sleepy and uncooperative. The nurse poked and prodded her until she suddenly FREAKED out and started jumping around like mad...couldn't even keep her heartbeat on the monitor because she was going nuts. The nurse was apologizing profusely and said she'd never made a baby so pissed off before :haha:. Ultimately, they both did just fine.

Also did my one hour glucose test today, and I should get the results later this afternoon. Fingers crossed that I don't have to go back for the 3 hour test!


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## Kim2012

Lovely pics Jo!!
Kellen hopefully LO cooperates tonight and you get the best pics for the Xmas cards!!

Dragon...LOL at nurse making the babay pissed off, may be she was in her deep sleep or was disturbed in her nicest dream!

Went for my 28 week app.baby is head down and finally went on the scale .I have gained 11.6 kilos , phew not as bad as I though This week I am eating like a horse!

Have had the flu jab and the whooping cough one today, so far so good and I hope it stays that way


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## Kellen

Ended up making my baby dance by turning on some music and placing the earbuds on my stomach. She loves to jam out to Frank Sinatra and Shrek the Musical. Our tech at the private scan place said that girls tend to be less cooperative than boys and are shy about showing their faces. I will be taking a bottle of OJ with me tonight and a candy bar in hopes of making her move around if she decides to snuggle with her placenta again.

Dragon - that is an awesomely funny story. I love how our LO's already have such huge personalities and they haven't even met the real world yet.

I am finally in the process (after being told in May) of being approved for telework. This will be fantastic when it comes to needed to go to the midwife once a week. I do have to be gone from home for two different weeks in January. I'm signed up for an instructor's academy that is two weeks long (with a break in the middle of the two weeks). DH is not going to be thrilled. It is 90 minutes from home so I will be staying on the campus.


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## helena

Oh do share some pics with us Kellen if the little lady joins in :) enjoy xx


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## SierraJourney

Yes, please share pictures Kellen! I hope you get some great shots!

So, my workplace gets tons of Christmas "treats" from reps that come in throughout the month of December---today we've gotten free donuts, free cakes, and free giant chocolate covered pretzels! Needless to say, I'm pretty sure that my weight gain this month is going to be very large! :haha:


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## Kellen

Yep. Facebook won't get pictures due to the fact that it will be our Christmas card cover, but you gals will!

My co-worker (who is leaving for a better paying job Friday) just brought me a sack of homemade rice crispy treats. His wife went on a baking spree and demanded that he remove all sweets from her sight... I will not complain.


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## SierraJourney

Sounds like a good deal to me, Kellen! :)


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## wamommy

Good luck at your scan, Kellen!! I hope your little lady cooperates this time :D I'll look forward to seeing the pics!

Sierra, my weight gain is going to be out of control this month, too! Between Halloween, Thanksgiving, and just generally pigging out, I think I might be the same weight this month that I was when I gave birth last time!!!! Sigh... DH bought me some very cute boots at the mall yesterday to try and help me feel better about my appearance. I LOVE them, but stood in my closet crying this morning when I realized everything I own makes me looks like Mrs. Potato Head. Gotta love these hormones!!


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## SierraJourney

Aww wamommy---I totally understand that. . .it's hard when our bodies change so quickly! :( When I have those days, I just remind myself of how worth it this little guy is----it doesn't help my appearance, but helps my heart a bit to remember. :) 

On a bit TMI note, my wind has been HORRIBLE lately. . .:blush: Last night it was so bad that DH stormed out of the room, telling me how "disgusting" I am---I quickly got overly dramatic and defensive---but it's hard to explain that it's not like I'm trying to gas him to death---pregnancy just makes me windy and happens to smell horrible! :haha: It's really hard to get them to understand when he thinks I'm doing it deliberately to be gross! lol. . . I do feel badly that he has to smell that all of the time though. . . :blush:


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## Jo_Bean

^this has happened to me too! Hubby hates it and gets really disgusted! I can't help it though! And my stomach makes really weird rumbling noises! It's awful!!


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## helena

Hahahaha I a with you on the wind ladies. Unfortunately (fortunately?!) my DH is a bit of a grubby schoolboy and finds it all hilarious.


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## SierraJourney

Haha---glad I'm not the only one! Thanks Ladies! 

Helena--that's so funny that your husband finds it hilarious! You've got a keeper! ;)


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## Kellen

Good Morning All!

On the wind side I have an immature hubby too who tries to "compete" with me. I told him this is not necessary. One gassy person in the house is enough.

So we went to do pictures last night... and it was a failure... again. We got two semi okay pictures. Apparently I have a very low anterior placenta (which no one bothered to mention before) and a very stubborn baby. I drank orange juice, I turned on my side, DH poked me... All that did was cause Teagen to throw her arms over her face. I did make the tech laugh when I said: "It appears Teagen is very attached to her Placenta Buddy. She just likes to snuggle it." And she does... she sticks her face on it and prevents picture taking. *Sigh*

I will try to post the pictures once I download them off the CD. Right now my left leg is on fire due to a small person sitting on my sciatic nerve. DH had to put my socks on for me this morning because I was pretty much unable to bend. 

I swear I gaining too much weight, but it seems to be all baby. I am not noshing on sweets and add in plenty of fruits and veggies. DH keeps telling me not to worry, but I can't help feeling like a beached whale at times. There was a girl at the clinic last night who was 3 weeks behind me and her bump was tiny compared to mine. I feel like hiding under a blanket today.


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## SierraJourney

Awww Kellen---I'm so sorry she wasn't cooperative! :( Are they going to try again? Regardless, she will soon be here and you won't need pictures to see how beautiful she is! :) 

I've been feeling like my bump is huge compared to others' too! I had two people just yesterday tell me how "big" I was and they were "never" that big and how they can't believe how much longer I have before baby comes. :( I just figure everyone is different sizes. . .and as long as my baby is healthy, that's what matters!


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## DragonflyWing

Happy 29 weeks! :D


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## Jo_Bean

Ignore whatever anyone else says about your bumps! If they feel the need to tell you that it's too big or too small, they clearly have too mych time on their hands! If someone told me my bump was too big for how far along I was, I would just love to reply with, maybe your bump was smaller but you certainly make up for it with the size of your mouth! (Probably wouldn't actually say that as I would no doubt just laugh it off then go and sulk but how cool would it be!)

I hate that it's 'ok' to comment like this! I don't go around saying that I think someone should have smaller feet or more hair so why is it ok to comment on my bump? A pregnant hormonal woman, who probably is in need of more reassurance than at any other time in her life :shrug: I will never understand people like that :nope:

This might make you feel better, I have a giant bump and I LOVE it!

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/5B51A2B5-F538-43D3-9085-20993EF92E2F-901-000001093FDCEF5B.jpg


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## SierraJourney

Aww Jo---you're so cute! Thanks for the wonderful words. I need to get a picture taken so I can post it soon. . .


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## Jo_Bean

Most of us only have 11 (ish) weeks to go! I say embrace the bump! We'll probably all be saying how much we miss it once the babies have arrived!


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## Kellen

Thank you for sharing your bump with us, Jo. It looks (give or take) around the same size as mine. I just want my baby to be healthy, but I'd also prefer not to give birth to a giant (praying for a 7lber instead of a 9lber like DH was...).

I have the world's coolest diaper bag thanks to my mom. Okay, so it traditionally isn't meant to be used as a diaper bag, but that shall be it's purpose for me. It is a cloth grocery bag type thing (you know the type?). The cool thing is that it has the original Allen Lee artwork for the Hobbit on it instead of all the movie hype. I'm a huge Tolkien fan and began reading his work when I was 9. My mom found it at Barnes and Noble and decided that it would be great. I happen to agree... also I'm personally not wanting to buy a $75 bag. This one cost a whopping $12. :)


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## Jo_Bean

At the scan the other day, they estimated that my little lady was already 3.5lbs! At an estimated growth of 1lb per week, that would mean she could be a 13lb-er :wacko:

I'm hoping they are wrong!! But a friend on here had an estimated weight of 3lbs at 28 weeks and her little boy was 8lb 12 so maybe I will have a slightly bigger baby, but I'm praying for the 8lb one, not the 13lb one please :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Haha---I'm worried about having a giant baby, too! Sounds like this is totally normal to worry about! :)

Kellen---I love Tolkein---sounds like a great bag! :)


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## wamommy

Thank you so much, Jo!! You're absolutely right, and it's good to have a bit of a pep-talk. You look GORGEOUS, by the way :D 

I have a Dr appointment tomorrow morning, along with the glucose test, so I should know more of how I'm measuring then! It sounds like we have a group of big babies, which is GREAT. I can't wait to see when they all make an appearance! It seems awfully close now :D


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## DragonflyWing

Wow Jo, that would be a big baby! Luckily, I don't think most babies gain more than 8 oz a week even at the end :) Your bump looks adorable, and 3.5 lbs is a great weight for 29 weeks! I was born at 28 weeks, and I was 3lb2oz, and my sister was born at 29 weeks at 3lb3oz.

I estimate that my babies are about 2lb13oz right now. I'm basing that on the fact that they've been gaining about 4oz a week, and 2 weeks ago they were at 2lb2oz and 2lb4oz :D


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## Jo_Bean

Oh my goodness Dragon! You were born right now at this stage and are absolutely fine! That really makes me think!

I don't know here I got the 1lb a week thing from :haha: but it scared me!


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## DragonflyWing

Yes! I spent 6 weeks in the NICU, and my sister spent 7 weeks...but we both did fine with no lasting problems whatsoever. And this was in 1983 and 1995! It takes a load off your mind, doesn't it? I know it does for me, it's great to think that if my babies had to be born now, they'd have an excellent chance of having no lasting health issues.


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## Kellen

Dragon - that is very reassuring to hear that if our little ones were born now they have an excellent chance at survival. My mom was born at 27 weeks in 1951. Once I passed that stage I know my stress and worry level dropped dramatically.

In other non-pregnancy related news I overheard the funniest conversation between DH and our cat this morning. I was walking into the bedroom after fixing myself breakfast and lunch and I heard this: "Cat. Why are you watching me poop? I don't watch you poop. How would you like it if I did? This is private. Next time you poop I'm going to take the cover off your box and watch. So ha!"

Very mature conversation that sent me back into the kitchen trying not to giggle and let him know I overheard. I am now very curious about what type of conversations I'll overhear with him and the baby once she is born. We watched some old (1950s or 1960s old) Christmas shows last night. I think I made it to 8:30 and then stumbled into bed.


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## SierraJourney

That's hilarious Kellen! My DH talks to our cat ALL of the time---it's so cute!

Well today, DH and I are going to put the rest of what we need for baby onto our registry. (about a month before baby is due, they'll send a 20% off coupon to you for everything on your registry---so we are going to put it all on there so we get 20%off of everything we need!) :) I'm kind of freaking out because I feel like there is SO much to buy, and SO much to do! I'm worried that I will get baby home and not have what he needs! I know this is silly, as I'm making a checklist and using the checklists off of The Bump website, but I still feel extremely overwhelmed. Plus, all of that combined with the fact that I have to make a home office at my house now in order to work from home. So far I have the desk and the computer. I still need: internet hooked up, a computer chair, curtains for that room (for when I'm pumping) and to clean out the entire room (is a storage room right now). There's tons of wash to do for all of the new and used items we received for baby, and I need to clean out the car in order to install the car seat so we're ready. 

I know we still have time, but it's SO hard to prepare when I work full time and am exhausted once I get home in the evenings. And I want to be ready for baby in case he comes early. How soon are you all planning to be "completely ready" in case baby comes early? My goal is the middle of January, but is that too soon or too late? What do you all think?

My mind is crazy right now. Yikes! (But I'm excited to go to the baby story today---I'm going to try to convince DH to buy a couple of things before the coupon because I have a gift card to there. .. ) :)


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## DragonflyWing

I'm hoping to be completely ready (i.e. crib set up, baby clothes in dresser, etc) by the end of December. We'll be closing in on 34 weeks at that point, and average for twins is 35 weeks. 

Realistically, though, I'm sure DH will be setting up the crib while I'm in the hospital after having them haha :haha:. We tend to procrastinate.


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## Kellen

I am a minimalist. We have the pack'n'play that will be used as the bassinet for the first 6 months. We have plenty of onsies and several sleep sacks. All I need are cloth diapers, but if push comes to shove it isn't all that difficult to run out and buy a box of newborn diapers and some wipes. I really don't feel like I need to prepare a whole lot. I'm sure the closer I get the more "nesting" I'll be doing, but for now I feel fairly prepared.


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## wamommy

Oh gosh, Sierra, I'm not prepared at all either! I have to dig the pack and plays out and wash the covers, find some more warm newborn sleepers, go through the bins and bins of baby girl stuff I have to find things I can use/need (like sleepsacks)... ugh. I'm aiming for the middle of January, since I'm pretty sure this baby will come at the end of January/early February. I know there's still time, but it does feel overwhelming! 

I just got back from my Dr. appointment. It went well. I've gained 20 pounds total (4 this month) which she said is right on track. I am only measuring 28 weeks, though, which I find odd. I LOOK huge, but I guess it's not "all baby" like I had hoped :haha: Ah well, heart beat was great, he's head down, and I did the glucose test. I should have the results tomorrow. Afterward we went out to eat since I was starving, and took the girls to run around a bit before heading home. I'm exhausted, but relieved that all is well with baby. 

I hope everyone has a great weekend!


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## helena

You can always shop and get things once baby is here. As long as she has a bed and a blanket wnd 1 packet of nappies, she will be fine. And in fact she wont know if she s sleeping in a beautiful cot or an old drawer. 
It's actually quite nice getting out and about again once baby is born, showing her off and feeling human again. Plus they sleep so much in the early weeks it's the perfec time for a light shop with DH and a trip to a cafe.
No need to worry too much about havingn it all done before she is here. This is what I am thinking. The only things I want defiinately in place are breasfeeding aids..nipple shields, cream, silver cups whatever. But then I suppose it is easier since I probably have lots of child friendly stuff from haing the boys, without even realizing it.


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## SierraJourney

Great point helena! There's always after the baby to shop, too. :) I spent all day yesterday washing items, putting together a highchair, buying another carseat base, etc.---as well as decorating for Christmas! :) DH comments to me: "The baby is making a mess in the house without even being here yet!" (Our living room and dining room area still has strollers and bases and bouncers, etc, all laying out---I wanted everything to dry before I put it all back again) :) 

So glad things are looking good with baby, wamommy! 

Speaking of newborn sleepers. . .what is everyone putting baby in for the first couple of weeks? Several people have suggested to me that I'll just want to put baby in sleepers and soft cozy things in the beginning? But I have some little pant outfits too for baby----is it better for them to be in sleepers all day long?


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## DragonflyWing

I might avoid putting pants on them until their umbilical cord falls off, just because the waistband might rub on it...but otherwise, I'll put them in whatever fits :)

I passed my glucose test, yay! I was worried about that, since my mom had gestational diabetes, and I'm at a higher risk for it since I was overweight when I got pregnant. Very glad I don't have to worry about that anymore!


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## SierraJourney

Yay---that's great news Dragon!!!


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## helena

Happy news Dragon :)
I will mostly have my baby in sleep suits. Just because it's easy. And it will be cold here, so pjs and fluffy socks and cardigans are the way forward I think. I have bought several cute little knitted hats too :)


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## SierraJourney

I've been thinking about cardigans . . . is it appropriately to put boys in cardigans? Do they make boy cardigans? I thought it'd be okay, but I don't want to make him look girly, either. :( I definitely want hats! :)


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## helena

Oh yes to boys in cardigans. Especially knitted ones. My first son had a whole knitted outfit my mum made. Including cardigan...
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_F4F246FB.jpg

I think it's super cute!


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## wamommy

Oh my gosh, Helena, he is so cute!! I love the outfit, and that smile is heart-melting!

DragonflyWing, congrats on passing the glucose test! One less thing to worry about :D I'm waiting on my results right now, hoping they call today.

Sierra, both of my girls lived in sleepers the first month or so. Like Helena said, they don't rub on the cord and you don't have to worry about socks falling off, etc. I had a bunch of adorable and frilly (very girly) things for DDs to wear, but they ended up sitting in the closet. 

Has everyone already bought diapers, wipes, etc? I"m feeling unprepared again today!


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness helena---that's ADORABLE!!!!! :) Love it! Now I need to search for some cardigans! :)


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## SierraJourney

wamommy said:


> Oh my gosh, Helena, he is so cute!! I love the outfit, and that smile is heart-melting!
> 
> DragonflyWing, congrats on passing the glucose test! One less thing to worry about :D I'm waiting on my results right now, hoping they call today.
> 
> Sierra, both of my girls lived in sleepers the first month or so. Like Helena said, they don't rub on the cord and you don't have to worry about socks falling off, etc. I had a bunch of adorable and frilly (very girly) things for DDs to wear, but they ended up sitting in the closet.
> 
> Has everyone already bought diapers, wipes, etc? I"m feeling unprepared again today!

Thanks Wamommy! Yes, I have 5 boxes of diapers (in a variety of sizes) and 5 boxes of wipes. I still have to get things like shampoo and rash cream, etc., but diapers I'm actually prepared on! ;) I've been picking one item up every time I'm at the grocery store---it's helped a lot!

I told DH today that I want to order a new canopy for the carseat because I want to make sure it ships in time. . . he responds back, "Oh yes because surely it won't ship by three months!" :haha: He just doesn't get that I want to be completely prepared! ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Yep, we've been getting diapers at every opportunity, so we have about 5 packs of newborn diapers and 5 packs of size 1...plus a few boxes of wipes. The internet tells me haha:) that newborn twins will use up to 12 diapers a day between them. Yikes! :wacko: At first I was looking at the 30 packs of diapers, and realized it might only last 2 days! Now I buy the big 60-100 packs.


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## Kellen

We have not yet started the diaper stocking because we are hoping to do the cloth option. I suppose I should invest in a couple boxes of disposables just in case... We are planning to hit up Costco for wipes. They have boxes of 900 wipes for $30. This seems fairly reasonable to me.

Helena- that is an adorable picture. He looks like such a cheery little fellow!

Dragon- congrats on passing the GDT. It is such a relief to get it out of the way.


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## wamommy

Oh yes, little ones go through SO many diapers!! I'm a big fan of the Pampers Swaddlers newborn, because it has the handy color stripe to tell you when baby is wet without having to unbutton his whole outfit. Also Kellen, Costco wipes are great! I found that Target brand wipes are just as cheap if not cheaper, as well. We used those up until DD#2 started using the potty. We also tried every brand of diaper and I liked Huggies and Target UpandUp brand the best. I like Pampers, but couldn't stomach the price past newborn. 

I was bored one day and figured out that at an average of 6 diapers a day, a baby uses 2,190 a year!! My DD potty trained right before her 3rd birthday, which means I changed about 6,570 of her diapers!!!!! Insane, I know. DragonflyWing, I can't imagine doubling that. Your DH better change into a diaper-changing machine! :haha:

All this talk has made me antsy. I might run out and buy a couple packs just to have. My DH is the same as yours, Sierra, and keeps telling me we have plenty of time. He's actually kind of condescending about it. The other day he said, "I know there is a real syndrome called 'nesting' that makes you obsess over organizing, but it's getting annoying." Actually, I like the house clean and things organized ALL of the time... and since when is neatness a "syndrome"??


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## SierraJourney

EXACTLY wamommy! I feel like December is going to fly by with the holidays and all of the sudden I'll be even more crazy trying to get everything ready! I'd rather start now and get things done one thing at a time then do it all at the end! 

Just registered for a breastfeeding class and a baby basics class. So, with those two classes and the Childbirth classes, I have a VERY busy January! Yikes!


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## helena

We don't have newborn nappies yet. I will just buy one pack or maybe two then continue to get some each weekly shop when baby is here. We wasted a whole box of one size last time after the in laws bought us lots. Baby out grew them too fast. Unless I see a mega good deal, I love a bargain!
We have 2 boxes of these cool cloth wipes. Disposable still, but like jeyes cloths. We just dip them in water.its what our hospital uses on newborns. Will use these for the first month maybe, limit chemicals on her ickle bottom :) would love to use washable nappies but my washing pile is already over spilling all over the bathroom..am not so sure if it is greener to use disposables or to have my washing machine on 24/7... My one effort to be greener is to not use nappy sacks. Unless I am at someone else's house. That way at least the nappy may biodegrade a year or two earlier!? Who knows.


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## DragonflyWing

Had my weekly NST this morning, and Lily wasn't being reactive enough, so they had to use this thing that makes a loud buzzing noise to startle her into moving around. They had to use it 4 times before they got the heartrate accelerations they wanted. Poor little girl must have been scared...I remembered that babies can cry in the womb (although without making noise), and I felt so bad thinking that she might be crying in there.

I've been sleeping like crap...between having to get up every 2 hours to pee, and not being able to stay asleep for more than an hour at a time due to sore hips and restless legs, I'm hardly getting any quality sleep. I was so tired when I left the doctor's office that I just burst into tears in my car because all I wanted to do was go home and take a nap...but I had to go to work. I asked the doctor for advice, but I'm already doing everything she suggested (using a fan, keeping a pillow between my knees, taking tylenol and benadryl, etc). She also suggested cutting down on fluids in the evening so I don't have to pee as much, but that's not an option because if I'm not constantly chugging water, I feel like I'm dying of thirst. That's another thing that wakes me up...I actually have to get up to get a drink because I'm so thirsty.

The doctor said that going by uterus size, I'm basically already overdue, so it's unlikely that I'll be able to really get comfortable until the babies are born. :(

Here's my 29 week bump picture! Gettin' huge!
 



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## SierraJourney

Aww Dragon--I'd feel so bad, too! :( Poor Lily!!

I'm sorry about the no-sleep! I'm having a hard time sleeping, too--but nothing near what you are going through! :( 

Lovely Bump!! :) :) :)


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## wamommy

Dragon, looking beautiful!! 

The image of Lily crying in there is so sad :( 

I hear you on not sleeping. I can't imagine how bad it is with 2 in there. For me it's painful hips and restless legs as well. I can't seem to get comfortable no matter what I do. I actually get out of bed and stretch my hips and back on the floor and then get back in bed and try to sleep again, lol. It helps some, but I have yet to find the solution.

I'm still waiting on my thyroid and GTT results. I just called the Dr's office and requested the results since I was supposed to get them yesterday. The receptionist was very nice, but said someone would have to call me back with the results. Arghhhh, more waiting!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--I hear you on the waiting! My midwife's office is like that, too--I'm always waiting for someone to call me back! :( I have my appointment tomorrow, so I should hear about my GTT results then. 

My ultrasound for my placenta is also tomorrow! YAY for another look at baby! :)


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## wamommy

Hurray for seeing baby again :D I hope your appointment goes well and your results are happy ones!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy---let me know when you hear about your results!


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## helena

hi all. oh i am with you on the sleep deprivation thing too. i have been suffering from some sort of head flu. spent yesterday with tinnatus and today with a really bad headache and hot sweats over night. paracetamol isnt touching it. every movement hurts. i am also peeing every 2 hours in the night. so between that and my sore head and my two boys and a new heating system which makes an annoying click when it comes on and off i am spending far too much nighttime awake...
still, it is preparing us for having a newborn..xx

30 weeks tomorrow!!!! xx


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## Jo_Bean

Hello everyone :wave:

Sorry I've not been popping in much, I've been finding it a bit harder to cope generally lately. Just exhausted and in quite a bit of pain with the SPD. I've given in, I'm trying to rest more and let other people do things for me, but I hate it! Only 7 days left of work for me though, so I'm now counting the minutes down!

Hope everyone is ok, 30 weeks tomorrow is crazy dudes!!!! We're all going to have little babies soon!


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## SierraJourney

Has anyone else "dropped"? Is it possible to drop this early? I have had MANY people say that I've dropped this week. . .I see it, but also think I've always carried low. . .but now I can fit a whole hand between my breasts and my bump, and it definitely feels heavier/more pressure down low. Anyone else?


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry you're having a tough time, Jo! What kinds of things are you doing for the SPD? So far, the only thing that works for me is a heating pad, and if I use that every night and I'm careful not to overdo it during the day, it's bearable. I hope you can get some relief!

Sierra, I was pretty sure I dropped last week...the bump was a lot lower, and I had lots of pressure in my pelvis. However, one or both babies decided to move back up this week, so I don't know! Is it possible to go back and forth like that?

DH put a cool mist humidifier in our room last night, and positioned the fan behind it so it blows the mist right at me. I had the best night's sleep I've had in weeks! It was blissful...only got up twice to pee, and I don't think I was snoring much. My mouth was a LOT less dry when I woke up, and I've even been less thirsty than normal this morning. The dry air must have been playing a big part in my sleep problems. I hope it goes on like this!


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## SierraJourney

I'm not sure if it can go back and forth like that? Maybe? :shrug:

The cool mist humidifier sounds wonderful! I wonder if I should get one soon---I wake up extremely thirsty and snore all night long according to DH! :haha:


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## wamommy

Oh, Jo and Helena, I'm so sorry you've both been having a hard time. I can't believe we're about to hit 30 weeks!! Perhaps our bodies are all gearing up. It's so exciting!

Sierra, I most definitely have NOT dropped yet. I wish. I feel feet in my sternum regularly, and my bump sits quite high. 

Eek, while I was typing this the nurse at my OB called me back. My 1-hour GTT was normal :D Yay! Unfortunately I'm also super anemic, so I'm supposed to start taking iron twice daily with vitamin C to help absorb it. Maybe I'll have more energy once I start? That would be amazing. I did have enough energy last night to go through a few of my daughters' clothing bins to look for things I could reuse. I found THREE Halo Sleepsacs that are neutral color, with the swaddle attachment. I was so relieved, since those things are ridiculously priced at the store. It looks like my major need is now burp cloths, and that shouldn't be hard to find!

I hope you're feeling better today, Helena, and that your cold clears up. Jo, I'm glad to hear from you, but I'm so sorry you've been having a rough time. Dragonfly, I'm glad you were able to get some relief! We should all celebrate 30 weeks my doing something special for ourselves. This whole growing a human thing is super hard, and we deserve a dinner out or a new haircut. 

Hang in there, ladies!


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls. I think 3rd tri is a.k.a the emotional one isn't it? I think so, everything makes me cry these days! :haha:

Dragon, I've just really been soaking in a hot bath (well only my bum and hips are covered, belly and boobs stick out) but that seems to help. Also, i've been sleeping with a cushion in between my legs and then trying really hard not to get in and out of the car with one leg first and instead, swing myself round and use both legs. Most of the time, trying to keep kness together when doing most things, to help the alignment.
Sorry you've been having a tough time too :hugs: It's a vicious circle isn't it! You wake up thirsty and then have to get up to pee which hurts the SPD! The night before last I managed to make it through the night without getting up, I think it was the first time in the whole pregnancy! I woke up but didn't get up to pee. That morning I was in the least amount of pain, so I do think it's the rest we need.

Sierra - apparently I've been snoring like a loud steam train and I also wake up at night with the driest throat imaginable!

Not so glam is it, being heavily pregnant! :nope:

We'll get there though girls, not too long to go, we can hang in there together!


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## SierraJourney

Back from my appointment and ultrasound! I am now up 26 pounds--I've gained 3 pounds in 9 days! :( But my GTT came back normal, and my sugar was REALLY good actually! 

Baby's heartrate is 132, and he is still most definitely a BOY! (I made them triple check on the ultrasound :haha: )

AND, my placenta has MOVED! So, I am in the clear as far as that goes! Thank God! 

Baby is weighing around 3 lbs 7 oz right now (62 percentile), and had his foot up squishing his little nose the entire ultrasound---making him have a smooshed nose in all of the shots! :)

Only thing is that he is transverse right now---and at the last TWO appointments I had (including todays), when the midwife tried to feel, they thought for sure he was head down! NOPE! Totally sideways he is! This may or may not get me another ultrasound, but they aren't worried about it, yet. 

But he is cute as a button!! I'm so in love! I think I'll go home tonight and wash all of the boy clothes I was refusing to wash until I knew for sure it was a boy! :) Now I am convinced, so I can wash as many boy things as I please! :)


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## Jo_Bean

Aw that's brilliant Sierra! So exciting! They will start to grow really quickly now I guess! Uh-oh! Time for us mamas to rest I think!


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## wamommy

Such good news, Sierra!! I'm glad it all went well :D


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## helena

Yay for defiinately being a boy Sierra!

I don't think I have a cold now, I think it has been a migraine. I saw my doctors office this morning, they checked my pee and blood pressure. All ok. They suggested an acupuncture doc but I cant get in with I'm until next week, I want relief now!.... But hopefully it will pass soon...migraines do don't they. At least it isn't baby related.
I too also have much more pelvic pressure and wondered about dropping. But then while I feel the weight has dropped my bump is sill higher than when I had my boys...feeling she is a very tall girl, filling me up.
Hope you are ok Jo. Xxxx


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## DragonflyWing

So glad that your ultrasound went well, Sierra! Helena, I sure hope your migraine goes away soon :hugs:

I have my next growth scan next Tuesday, and I can't wait! I'm estimating that the babies will measure approximately 3lb5oz each. We'll see how close I am!

Oh, and happy 30 weeks! We're officially on the home stretch :D


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## Kellen

Hello Everyone,

Glad that there has been good news all around for GDT, baby weight and everything else! I'm sorry to hear that you are suffering from a migraine, Helena... they are no fun.

DH mentioned last night that my bump looked lower. Little Girl has been more active lower down recently and has been keeping her feet out of my ribs (thank you!). I finally had to take off my wedding band and put it on a necklace. My poor little fingers are swollen and I'm not happy about it.

I've been accepted into a class in January that I am excited, but nervous about. I will be gone overnight for a week, then I get a week off, then I have to go back overnight for a week. I need this class as a portion of my job qualifications and it is notoriously difficult to get into. I know I need it and I know it will be excellent training, but I am not looking forward to being away from DH for that long. It is only 90 min from my house, but I don't want to drive 3 hrs every day. I'd rather pay the $20/night for on campus lodging.


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## SierraJourney

Wow Kellen, that's ambitious taking a class that close to due date! My bosses wanted me to go to a week class starting January 23rd, but I said "no" .. . I'm too nervous! I hope your class goes well--it sounds great for your job!! I know it's hard to be away from DH for that long. Any chance he can go and hang out at the lodging with you?

My bosses confirmed my working from home today--except I have to work half days DURING maternity leave. I am not too excited about that, but will do it in order to keep my full pay and be with my little guy 24/7. AND, they told me that if I have to come in for a meeting, I can bring the baby WITH me! That's AWESOME news! :)


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## Kellen

Sierra, that is awesome news that you can take your little one with you. Too bad about working part-time, but at least you'll be getting a paycheck. :)

I suppose DH could come with me, but he would only be able to be there Monday day because he has to work Tues-Sat. We have Skype on our laptops so we are planning to "see" each other every night and keep reading to the baby. It will be difficult, but it needs to be done. Normally there is a 6 month waiting list for the class. Thanks to the pull of my agency they got me in the class I wanted.


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## SierraJourney

Well that's good, Kellen! It will be hard, but it sounds like you have a good program set up with DH. :) That's very cute that you guys will still be reading to the baby. :) We haven't been as faithful reading to our little one, but we do try to do it as much as we can.


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## Kellen

Normally DH does the reading (he loves to add the most random comments that crack me up) while I am in charge of the singing. Poor DH cannot carry a tune in a bucket so he gets to read. Last night he was too tired through so I got to read! Well, I read a lot of my technical reports outloud to the baby at work, but I think _Chicken Soup with Rice_ was probably more entertaining for the baby.


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, I am SO thirsty today! I've already had nearly 4 liters of fluids, including 6 cups of water, 2 cups of juice/seltzer, and a half gallon (!) of milk. I've only been awake for 7.5 hours! I've had to pee about 5 times, but much less is coming out than going in, so I must be dehydrated. As soon as I'm done with one glass, my mouth is parched and I immediately need to get something else.

We had an incident with the humidifier last night lol...DH bought a new one (well, new to us) at a thrift shop, because the one we have is very loud and tends to make a puddle on the floor underneath it. We tried out the new one, and it didn't seem to be putting out much mist, so we decided to leave them both running when I went to sleep. Well, the new one decided to start working with a vengeance in the middle of the night. I woke up because I was having a hard time breathing, very congested, so I turned on the light, and the whole bedroom was full of fog! It was like being inside a cloud :haha:! The mirror was fogged over, and the blankets on the bed were damp...way OVER humidified. We turned off the new vaporizer and left the old one running, but I still slept like crap because it was too moist in the room and I couldn't breathe through my nose. SO, apparently there is a happy medium when it comes to humidity and sleeping ;)

We have to do some experimenting, because the new humidifier has a few different settings, while the old one just has one. The good news is that the new one is MUCH quieter!


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## helena

Your new humidifier has new filters tho? Can't these thing breed bugs? Maybe not. 

Rubbish start to the day here. Major emotional breakdown by me. 4 year old woke angry, my migraine that had gone is back, and I am fed up of telling the kids off and them not listening. Seriously low, for a few minutes I didn't want all this any more. It's so hard. Will pull myself together I am sure, but emotionally tough just now.


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena... giant :hugs: I understand those moments, I really do. I hope it passes along with your migraine. Until it does, hang in there! You're a wonderful Mom, but allowed to feel low sometimes too. I hope the day improves!


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## helena

Thanks. Day got better quickly. These pregnancy hormones really knock me
Sometimes. Obviously I love my kids more than anything ever, but sometimes it's all so overwhelming! Sometimes i feel so emotional i dot feel like myself. Third tri is tough! 
We made up and got our Christmas tree and now to have happy times and decorate it :) head much better too, which makes life a lot easier!!


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## Jo_Bean

Glad to hear you are feeling better now Helena xx


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi Ladies how are you all doing xx


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## DragonflyWing

Helena, sorry you were having such a hard time! Glad that it got better :hugs:

I think it's the warm mist humidifiers that need filters and can breed bacteria. Ours are ultrasonic cool mist, so I don't think they even have filters. You just need to clean them out to remove any hard water scale, and obviously change the water regularly so you don't get any mildew from stagnant water.


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## wamommy

Hello ladies! I hope you all had a great weekend :D

Helena, it's good to hear that things are getting better! We're hoping to get a tree tomorrow too, and it's always a very fun day. This year I think the kids are old enough to enjoy putting ornaments on, instead of just grabbing them and running off :haha:

Midnight_Fairy, good to see you :) How have you been?

I've been a little absent lately because my 4-year-old has had a terrible cough. It comes and goes, but when she has a fit it's so hard to listen to. She coughs for about 20 minutes until she throws up :( The last few nights she's been up half the night coughing too, so the whole family is exhausted and a bit cranky. DH and I have been too hard on each other and fighting over the silliest things... ugh. Ah well, today is a nice relaxing laundry/football/lazy day.


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## Kellen

Good Morning Ladies,

Helena - Glad to hear that Christmas is lifting your spirits. I hope that your migraine goes away.
Wamommy - That sounds like a nasty bug that you are having to deal with in your house. Sleep deprivation is never fun at the best of times, but especially not with a sick kiddo.

Today we had our 31 week visit with the midwife. I've gained 33lbs... and I hate that, but was told that I'm still on track. My BP was low - as usual and I'm measuring 31 weeks. When the midwife went to use the doppler to find Teagen's HB she started kicking at the midwife's hand. Finally she was able to get a read close down by her head. And it is confirmed that she is head down and butt up. :)

DH wants to do cord blood banking. For those of you with prior children have you done this or would you consider it? We found a program that allows us to pay $60/mo for the next 4 years, which seems pretty decent. 

I had resigned myself to the fact that I was not going to have a baby shower due to all my friends and family living in CA, WA and OR. However, they announced at church on Sunday that in January they will be throwing me a shower. DH has been wanting to get baptized for a year or so, so we are going to have the shower right after this baptism in January (our church is in an office building so a nice couple offered us the use of their newly installed hot-tub. I personally thought it would be funny to dunk DH in a freezing cold river, but apparently our pastor had other ideas).

Last night DH was kissing my belly and saying sweet, lovey things to the baby when all of a sudden he blew a raspberry. Little Girl jerked and startled so hard she hit him in the nose. She was not as amused as we were with her reactions. She pouted for about 15 minutes before she would move or respond to us again.

In non-baby news I have completely finished my Christmas shopping. DH almost found one of his presents. It came via UPS right as he was leaving for work on Friday. Since I didn't include his name on the label he wisely decided not to open it. Sorry for the long and pointless post, but work is dead today. It will be crazy on Friday with the close of the grant I manage. I'm taking advantage of the lull.


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## SierraJourney

Yay Kellen! So excited that you get a shower! That's so nice of your church! 

And that's hilarious about the raspberry! What a smart little girl you have there! I feel like my little guy is so laid back that nothing startles him---I might have DH blow a raspberry just to see, though! ;)

I've still got Christmas shopping to do. . .I've ordered all of the online things, though, so that part is done. :)

I hope everyone is feeling well today and trying to stay healthy!! I'm getting internet installed at my house this week, so hopefully I'll be able to check in on weekends after that---instead of missing everything! ;) 

I've been getting stabbing cervical pain all weekend. . .don't know if it's LO or if my cervix is changing? Anyone else?


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## DragonflyWing

Yep, I'm getting the stabby cervix pains too. One day last week DH said I jumped like I'd been shot...it was such a sharp sudden pain that it took my breath away!

Unfortunately, I'm sleeping like crap again. The humidifier only seemed to help for a few nights...now I'm back to waking myself up with my own snoring, and waking up gasping for breath because apparently as soon as I fall asleep, I stop breathing well. This morning, I must have woken up 50 times between 5:30 and 8am. I tried taking a nap during my lunch break, but as soon as I'd start drifting to sleep, I'd startle awake because I felt like I couldn't breathe. Argh!


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## SierraJourney

It's so startling, isn't it Dragon!? It literally feels like someone is pinching some tissue inside there or something. . . lol

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time sleeping! I wake up in the night, too, but nothing like you have been! :( I can't imagine!!! :( :hugs:


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so glad you're going to have a baby shower! Gifts aside, it's a chance to feel special and loved while waiting for baby :D Glad your appointment went well, too. 

I hear you guys on the cervix thing! I've found when it happens I quickly do a few kegels and the baby backs off, lol. 

Dragonfly, I'm so sorry you haven't been sleeping well. Not getting good sleep is torture, really. I hope you can find some relief! I can imagine your poor lungs are getting pretty mashed with 2 healthy babes in there.

We're off to go get a tree!! It's raining here (in Seattle? NO WAY!!) but it's supposed to rain all week, so we may as well tough it out.


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## SierraJourney

Yay tree wamommy! We have had ours for a week now, and on Sunday, the dang thing FELL OVER onto my floor----needles and ornaments and water EVERYWHERE! :( Apparently it had started dying on the back side (on the bottom) and became top heavy and crashed down from the lopsided weight. :( It still looks good from the front, so we set it back up, braced it better, re-decorated, and am hoping it lasts until Christmas! :haha:


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## helena

Hi all. I am getting the feeling like baby is scratching down there, trying to get out. Certainly is uncomfortable! Had to stop and grab the stroller in Ikea the other day!

Got confirmation that my c sec will be on 1 Feb today, 7 weeks 3 days. Wowee!


----------



## SierraJourney

Wow helena---that's so close!!! How exciting!! 

Baby is scratching away down there as I type this---I wonder what they are really doing in there?! lol


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## Kellen

Wow! 7 weeks really puts things into perspective. I guess this means we really have reached the home stretch. The second trimester seemed a bit sluggish, but things have really began to pick up speed.

I too am feeling the scratching/biting feeling from my little one. I told DH the other night that I wished that I had a see-thru belly so that I could tell what she was up to. He just gave me a weird look and walked away...

We are having a difficult time settling on a middle name. Neither of us are particularly choosey. Right now we are stuck between "Garey" (my maiden name) or "Cooper" (my middle name and mom's maiden name). Since my grandpa passed away in October I'm tempted to go with Cooper for his sake, but since it is my middle name I feel like it wouldn't be fair to her to have a non-original middle name.


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## SierraJourney

I'd LOVE a see-through belly! that'd be awesome! haha

We haven't decided on a middle name, either. . . .I think that's more tough than a first name!


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## DragonflyWing

A see-through belly would be amazing, I'd love to see what they're up to in there!!

Had a measurement scan this morning, Gunnar is 3lb10oz, and Lilja is 3lb11oz! :happydance: That puts them in the 45th percencentile for singletons, which apparently is great for twins :)

I was having some minor contractions during the NST, but I didn't really feel anything. My BP was a little bit high, but I didn't have any protein in my urine. They did some blood tests just to make sure I'm not developing pre-eclampsia, but the dr said it's just a precaution.


----------



## Kellen

Dragon - that is awesome that your little ones are getting so big! I am glad that your doctor is being cautious with your health as well. 

Just think of the stress that we could cut out of our lives if we could see into our wombs. The first trimester would be such a breeze if we could just roll up our shirts and see that our little ones were happy and developing. :)


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## SierraJourney

Those are great weights Dragon! Congrats!!!

Fingers crossed that the blood tests come back okay! When are they expecting the twins to come--have they given you any indication? I know that twins come early, but just curious how early! :)


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## wamommy

7 weeks, Helena?? Oh gosh, that is so soon! How exciting?! I can't wait to start meeting all of our little ones.

DragonflyWing, those weights are amazing :D I'm curious about what Sierra said , too. When are they thinking the twins will come? Are they scheduling a c-section or waiting on labor? Sorry, I don't know much about carrying twins, and I'm so curious!

I wish I had a see-through belly too. Sometimes I feel movement on 2 completely opposite sides of my belly, and I wonder how he does that! I also feel the scratching on my cervix, and wonder if it's head, hands, elbow, or?? It would be quite a show!

Has anyone else been having amazingly strong Braxton Hicks lately? The last few days I've had to sit down and breathe through a couple of them, they were so tight. I'm happy that my body is getting ready, but ouch!


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## DragonflyWing

They haven't really given me any indication of when to expect to deliver, except to say that I won't go full term. Google tells me that the average gestation for twins is 35 weeks, but that includes complicated and uncomplicated twin pregnancies. Since mine has gone so well so far, I would expect that I'll make it to 36-37 weeks unless something drastic changes.

I don't even know if I'll be having a vaginal delivery or a c-section yet...apparently it all depends on the babies' positions. If both are head down, that gives me the best chance for a successful vaginal delivery. If one or both are breech, I'll probably have a c-section. Right now little boy is head down and little girl is breech...and they are definitely running out of room! Not sure how easy it would be for them to turn now.

My guess is that I'll have them sometime around the 3rd week of January. Not too much longer!


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## helena

glad the babies are doing so well dragon!! my girl will be born at 38 plus one day. am excited. both my boys were born at the same sort of time.
thats if she doesnt come earlier..have been getting a lot of shooting pains right across the lower bump this afternoon that i had to deep breathe through. bit like lightening. but maybe she has moved again..she is currently kicking right behind my belly button, down on the lower right and right at the top near my ribs...is she an octopus?!?!?!?


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## helena

SierraJourney said:


> Wow helena---that's so close!!! How exciting!!
> 
> Baby is scratching away down there as I type this---I wonder what they are really doing in there?! lol

i had this with my youngest too. and he had long nails when he was born!....


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## SierraJourney

Wow Dragon---that's coming up soon!!! 

helena, I totally understand the octopus thing!---how do they "kick" in so many different spots at one time!?

I'll have to see if my lo is born with long nails! lol that's hilarious!


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## DragonflyWing

I got to see little Gunnar using my bladder as a pillow...so that's why I feel like I need to pee even when I JUST went. Sometimes I even say to DH "I just peed didn't I? Like 3 minutes ago? What the heck?!"

Today the SPD has been pretty bad...I had to walk back and forth between two fax machines several times at work, and I felt like I could hardly walk. I need to start wearing my maternity support belt more often, I'm getting lots of ligament pains...not surprising I guess, considering there's already almost 7.5lbs of baby in there!

Blood test results all came back normal, no pre-eclampsia :)


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> Blood test results all came back normal, no pre-eclampsia :)

:yipee: :yipee: Very good news!


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## SierraJourney

Great news Dragon! I hear you on the bladder thing! I was up four times last night within a four hour time-span! :(


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## Kellen

Congrats on no pre-E! That is awesome news. 

And I second you on the bladder thing. Last night DH and I were watching TV when I asked him to pause the show so I could use the bathroom. I came back, sat down and right as he unpaused it I said: "Hold on, I'll be right back. I have to pee." He asked me if I forgot to pee the first time :doh: No... but your child decided to start squishing the bladder so now I have to go again.


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## Kellen

So DH is very insistent that we do cord blood banking. So I took advantage of a relatively empty office and signed us up. Lo and behold we get a $250 discount from our insurance provider, plus $100 visa card for registering before 2013. I personally am not as into it as DH, but I will support his wishes and who knows? I hope that we will never need this, but I suppose it is a good security measure. Has anyone here ever done the cord banking or even considered it?


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## DragonflyWing

I just had a major craving for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, which I haven't had in probably 10 years...and I recently bought a jar of strawberry rhubarb jam that I was SO excited to try. Then DH told me I can't open the new jar until we use up the lingonberry jam that's already in the fridge. I don't WANT lingonberry jam, I want strawberry rhubarb!! I was totally devastated and started crying and decided not to have pb&j at all. :haha: oh, hormones.

But still a little mad at DH hehe


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## Jo_Bean

That's great news dragon :hugs:


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## Kim2012

Hello everyone, 

I have a lot to catch on but i hear u ladies on the need to pee, I particularly notice that i do it before i shower but need to immediately after ....literally 7 minutes!!

and the movements I feel like babay is biting me down there and DH had to remind me that baby doesnt have teeeth Ahhhh!! I second everyone on the transparent belly, am sure it will be fun to watch...

Platelets results back and they have slightly increased but still in the lower range , met a different OB who was much nicer than my one and he said not to worry at this stage but to continue monitoring and hope for the best until week 35.


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## Kellen

Fantastic story, Dragon! I would be a little upset with DH too if he denied me my cravings. His current theory is: "She is in her third trimester. Argue at the risk of your life." So he basically gives me what I want. :)


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## Kellen

Kim, I'm glad to hear that your platelets are going down and that you got a much nicer doctor this go around. I second you on the baby biting. Almost made DH fall out of his chair last night by exclaiming: "Baby! Don't bite my vagina!" Of course I know that she A) doesn't have teeth and is B) no where near my vagina, but that was the first thing that came out of my mouth. :doh:


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## helena

Oh dragon, I hope your husband is feeling very guilty indeedy! 

Have my parents to stay tomorrow until sunday so that's exciting news here. Have been getting spare room sorted and now my pelvis hurts :(

Glad all is a bit more positive Kim.


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> Hi all. I am getting the feeling like baby is scratching down there, trying to get out. Certainly is uncomfortable! Had to stop and grab the stroller in Ikea the other day!
> 
> Got confirmation that my c sec will be on 1 Feb today, 7 weeks 3 days. Wowee!


Woooow Helena 7 weeks!!! Kinda put things into perspective on how close we are!!Was just counting down to when baby will be here and DS (7yrs) dissapeared to his room and came back with a bag packed with 2 yougurts, £3,50, 3 cereal bars and his DSi.he handed them to me and said that was that was for me and the baby for the hospital.My heart melted and hormones got the better of me and cried at his thoughtfulness!!!! I am not the only one who cant wait for Feb!!!
I asked what te DSi was for nd he said for setting the alarm so that baby can wake up for her mil....awww bless.if only it worked that way:haha:.

Just thought to share


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## helena

Not a great day. Mum isn't well so they haven't come to stay. Such a shame. Hopefully she isn't seriously unwell but is getting her heart checked after faint spells.

Then I have started getting a pain down the middle of my bump, below my belly button. Like a hair being pulled. Stinging. I fear it's muscle separation, I read about t online. Hurts. Not agony but an annoying pain, that isn't stopping. I posted in third tri about it.. https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...r/1591821-muscle-separation.html#post23936287

31 weeks, yaaaay! Well done all xx


I love your son's gesture Kim! What a sweetie!!!


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry! I hope your Mom is alright and that it's nothing serious. I don't know what it feels like to have muscle separation, but I learned some about it when I was pregnant the first time. I was concerned about continuing ab workouts, and was cautioned by my trainer that in some women aggressive abdominal workouts can cause Diastasis Recti. It usually goes back in the few months after baby is born, but can be painful and make it hard to lift things. It can also be caused by multiple pregnancies. I hope that isn't it! When is your next Dr appointment to ask?

Kim, your son is so sweet! That would have made me tear up too :D

Has everyone finished their Christmas shopping? I've got a lot left on my list and time is running out! At least the kids are mostly finished. I get stuck trying to think what to buy for nieces/nephews/godmother, etc.


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## Kim2012

Helena , sorry yo mum isnt feeling well, hope its nothing serious.Muscle separation nebver heard about it but hope you get some answers on your next appointment.

Wamommy christmas shopping ahhhh it really killing me ......am almost tempted to say to DS and DH our christmas will be in Feb.Hit the shops today started with mothercare to collect things I ordered for baby and since i desparately needed to pee made sense to start there , got there lifts arent working took the stairs only to find the bathroom out of order!!!Stood there like a zombie and asked the security what time the bathroom were going to be working again....He directed me to another shop with bathroom which seemed miles away which I already knew anyway.went into M&S used the bathroom and bought Xmas cards and that was it ....its a struggle


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## DragonflyWing

Not feeling very well today...last night at about 9:30pm, I started getting this weird anxious feeling in my chest, my heart was pounding and I felt a little panicky. It was strange because I wasn't really worried or anxious about anything, I was just sitting on the couch reading a book when it started. I decided it must have been from the caffeine in the soda I had with dinner, and I went to bed. I got up twice during the night to use the bathroom and get a drink of water, and I felt ok both times I was up.

This morning, about 15 minutes after I got up it started again. In addition to the anxious feeling, I've been getting dizzy on and off, feeling like I can't quite get enough breath (not struggling to breathe, but having to take very deep breaths), and some pain in my upper stomach. The stress is causing some BH contractions that are making my lower back ache. 

I decided to take my blood pressure, and it showed 154/93 with a pulse of 111. I'm not sure how accurate my bp monitor is, since I haven't used it since becoming pregnant. 

Not sure if I should call the doctor...I feel like my symptoms are so vague and they're going to tell me it's just anxiety.


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## Kellen

Dragon, that does not sound good. I think you should call your doctor or at least go some place to have an accurate BP taken. What you are going through sounds really scary. I don't think that your OB would have any problem with you calling, especially since you have twins. Be careful and let us know how things turn out.


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## SierraJourney

I agree Dragon---please call. That doesn't sound good. :(


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## DragonflyWing

DH tested the bp monitor, and his showed 118/73, so I'm thinking mine is definitely elevated. He has a doctor appointment for himself in about an hour, and I'm going to go with him to see if they'll take my blood pressure. If it's still high, I'll call my doctor.


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## Kellen

I'm glad you are getting it checked out. Keep us posted.


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## DragonflyWing

Got my bp taken, it was only 134/77...whew! I'm still getting some tightenings and back pain, but I think I'm ok. Both babies are moving fine.


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## wamommy

Oh thank goodness, Dragon. How scary! When is your next ob appointment to talk it over with your doc?


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## DragonflyWing

My next appointment is Tuesday, I may call sooner than that, though. A had a sudden episode of vomiting a little while ago with quite a bit of stomach pain. If that happens again I'm going to call.

Edit: damn it, now I've had about 10 BH contractions in the last hour (I've never had more than one in an hour before), and I'm supposed to call the doctor if I have more than 4. They don't hurt much, so I feel silly calling. Argh, I bet they're going to make me go get monitored. Blah.


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## wamommy

Better safe than sorry, though :hugs: I'm so sorry! That's what they're there for, and I'm sure they'd rather you call. Keep us posted, and you'll be in my thoughts tonight!


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## DragonflyWing

They stopped just after I posted, and I haven't had any in the last hour and a half. I'm going to bed, and I'll see how I feel tomorrow. Thanks for keeping us in your thoughts! Hopefully it was just a bad day and tomorrow will be fine.


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## helena

Oh dragon! Hope you had a quiet night. Maybe those cheeky babies of yours are indeed gearing up for an early entrance to the world!?! Get checked out when you can just in scare. Early labour can go on for days I think? 
All the best, rest up!
Xxx


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my God guys! I came in to get monitored because I had more contractions, and as soon as I got to the hospital, my water broke! They're deciding whether to give me steroids to mature the babies'lungs, or if there might not be enough time. Looks like I'm going to have my babies soon! A little scared, but optimistic.


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## wamommy

EEEK!! How exciting!! I'm so glad you're at the hospital being monitored. I know it's still early, but by the past few measurements it seems the babies are already pretty big and strong. I hope everything goes well, and will be checking back often to see how you, Gunnar and Lily are doing!


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## DragonflyWing

They have me on magnesium to stop the contractions, and steroids for the babies' lungs. They are going to try to keep them in for at least 48 hours, longer if possible. I'm in the hospital until then, can't even get up to pee! I have to have a catheter yuck.


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## munchkinlove

good luck!!!!!!!!! 31 weeks is great for twins!!!!!!!!!!!! they will have to go to the nicu but thats to be expected. hang in there ill be thinking of you!!!!!!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Good luck Dragon! Xxxxxxxx


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks :)

Even with the magnesium, contractions are getting more painful, although they're not showing up on the monitor. I'm like "believe me, they're happening!"

Can't sleep at all, and they won't give me anything to help. They won't even let me have any water, and with how thirsty I have been, that's the worst part!


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## helena

Oh my word! Dragon!! Good luck!! Am so excited. A just checking in before going to bed..not sure I can sleep now!! Eeeekkk! Babies!!! 

My doc has had me on magnesium pills from day 1, wonder if that says setting to do with avoiding premature labour...no idea.

Oh wow, go for it dragon!!! Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Why no water? Mean!


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## Jo_Bean

That is mean! Hope they let you have a drink soon. Or at least sick on some ice chips!


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## DragonflyWing

They've let me eat and drink now :) they just wanted to be sure I was relatively stable and wasnt headed for an immediate c-section.

So far nothing has really changed.


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## helena

Checking in first thing this morning looking for news. Hoping you are all fine xx


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## wamommy

helena said:


> Checking in first thing this morning looking for news. Hoping you are all fine xx

Doing the same right before bed :winkwink: I hope you are all doing well, and will check back first thing in the morning.


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## Jo_Bean

^ Me too xx


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## Kellen

Dragon! That is super exciting and slightly scary. I hope you and the babies are doing well today. I'm glad that the hospital is taking good care of you. Looks like you get two unexpected Christmas presents this year. Just think... You'll be able to write them off as a tax deduction come April! But I pray that you are safe and that your two little ones are doing well.


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## helena

All this silence must mean babies are really coming / here surely..I can't wait fr a update! And pictures!!!..amazing to think that we all "met" just a few weeks / months ago after peeing on sticks and already we have babies being born. 
Thinking of you dragon xxx


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## wamommy

It does seem like it's all happened SO fast, doesn't it? I can't believe the first (2) of our babies are being born!! I am excited and nervous for you, Dragon, and can't wait to hear all about it!


----------



## SierraJourney

Dragon! Oh my goodness--I have been off for the weekend, and just now checking in---how exciting that the babies are coming! I am praying everything is going/has gone okay and that you are doing wonderfully! Hugs sent your way!!!


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## SierraJourney

By the way, if anyone is still needing items and shops at Babies R Us, they have 30% off a lot of their online stuff today and their clearance section has tons of 60% off stuff online, too. Plus, free shipping! (I'm not trying to advertise for them, but I decided to browse the sale items today to see if it's anything that is on my "list" to get for baby---and I found a lot of stuff. I ended up saving $43.00 on things that I was going to buy anyways!)


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## Kellen

Sierra, thanks for the update on the sale. I might pop over there just to see if there is anything I need. I have a 20% coupon from them that I need to use soon.


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## Kim2012

Thinking of you Dragon.Sending hugs.xx


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## wamommy

I'm guessing by no news that the babies are coming! Sending all of my thoughts and prayers to you and your beautiful babies, Dragon!


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks everyone, sorry I havent updated sooner. Were still hanging in there, still in the hospital. Not getting any sleep, having lots of side effects from the magnesium iv, so haven't had energy to really type. Tomorrow they're stopping the magnesium, and we'll see what happens..


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## helena

Oh you must be exhausted! Lots of luck xxx


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## Jo_Bean

Oh bless you Dragon :hugs:

This place is like a waiting room of expectant Aunties! The first of our little group to be born! :cloud9: which baby dragon will it be?!


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## SierraJourney

Aww poor Dragon---how tiring! :( :hugs:


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## Kellen

We are all cheering for you Dragon! You must be utterly exhausted after all this time. We are all praying for you and your two little ones.


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks! They took me off the magnesium in the middle of the night, because it was causing fluid build up in my lungs. I felt like I couldn't breathe and started panicking. I was a mess! Managed to doze a bit, maybe 3 hours total...then they took my catheter out this morning and let me take a shower and brush my teeth. It was heaven! Felt so good to move around after being stuck in bed for 3 days. Now I'm having some more regular contractions, but the steroids have had time to work so we're going to see what happens.


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## SierraJourney

How scary, Dragon! :( I'm glad they took you off of the magnesium! Also glad the steroids have had time to work---I hope things continue to go well for you. Thank you for the updates! Praying for you!


----------



## Kellen

Thank you for the update, Dragon! Fluid build up in the lungs does sound rather frightening and not exactly conducive to sleeping. I am glad that the steroids have had long enough to work and help develop those little lungs. Hooray for showers and feeling semi normal!


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## wamommy

It's amazing how we take everyday things for granted! I'm glad you got a chance to feel a bit more human again. It sounds like it's been an exhausting 3 days, and I hope you get to rest some!


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## munchkinlove

Hang in there dragon!!!


----------



## Kellen

Because you ladies are the safest place for this... I have a small rant about one of my husband's co-workers.

Today his General Manager (who is a very nice fellow) came in to tell my husband that someone (who is currently unnamed - but we have a decent idea) is bringing sexual harassment charges against him. Apparently my husband - according to this "source" - has been going around and telling people that he has slept with 13 different women and that I was only with 1 other person before we were married. And that even now when he goes into a bar he tells women that he only has 30 minutes so they better make it fast.:saywhat:

These allegations are absolutely ridiculous. I knew that my DH had had sexual relationships before we were together, but I - on the other hand - had never engaged in sexual intercourse before our wedding night. Also to say that he is currently going to bars and engaging in liaisons is completely laughable. He has gone out 3 times with my SIL and acted as her date. The rest of the time we are normally in bed by 11pm at the latest. Unless DH has a very good body double I am pretty sure he hasn't been sneaking out...

I am just PO'd that someone would abase his character in such a way. He was/is a manager, but will be stepping down from that position come Jan 1 due to employees that constantly go over his head to other managers. I completely support this and he is 88% of the way to getting all the documentation he needs to begin his second (and more lucrative) career. The *ahem* person who is making this claims needs to be very, very glad that she is no where near me right now. Normally I am a calm, relaxed person, but do not mess with my family.:grr:


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## wamommy

Kellen, I would be livid too. It's amazing how some people try to get attention, revenge, or whatever, by making up stories :( Hopefully other people can see through this person's motivations. If not, I'm so glad your DH can switch careers! It doesn't sound like a very healthy environment where he is. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this!


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, that is HORRIBLE! I'm so sorry! I can't believe someone would do that to another person---especially a coworker. What the heck?! Argh. . . I'm so sorry!!


----------



## wamommy

Is anyone else having strong/constant braxton hicks? I feel so silly, because this is my 3rd baby and I should know my body by now, but honestly this pregnancy has been SO different than the other 2. The last week or so I have about 8-9 strong and painful braxton hicks an hour. They're strong enough to have to stop what I'm doing and take a few deep breaths. I've been chugging water like a mad woman, since everything I google says drinking helps them stop. It's not working, lol.

I have a Doctor appointment tomorrow morning and will be sure to ask her if it's normal. I was just wondering if any of you get it too?

Also, on a side note, my 3-year-old said the sweetest thing to me today. She just turned 3 a month or so ago. I asked her what she hopes Santa will bring for Christmas. She said, "I just had a birthday and got enough presents. I don't need any more." I about died. Sometimes I wonder how I got so lucky :cloud9:

Dragon, I hope all is well! I've been sending positive vibes your way!


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## helena

dragon, good luckw ith whatever today may bring!!!! keep strong.

kellen, thats awful! hope it gets sorted asap!!

wamommy, i am not even sure i know what a braxton hicks feels like...and this is my third too! i know i felt one mayb, where i felt everything tense, but i have had other moments where i feel very strong period like pains for a minute and then they go, could they be it? had two this morning. 

But yours sound to be happening a little too often? You don't think baby is wanting to get here so he doesn't miss Santa? Definitely mention it to the doc. He it says it shouldn't be more often than 2 an hour... 
https://www.babymed.com/labor-delivery/labor-it-true-false-or-braxton-hicks-contractions

But reading this I defiinately had one contraction yesterday, period pain in lower ab and aches down not my inside thighs....oh I shouldn't google!! But it went away when i slept so I guess i just overdid it yesterday. Both my boys were scheduled c sections so I don't even know what a true contraction feels like.
Oooh, our bodies are gearing up for D day!
this pregnany is so much more achey than my others too. i dont think i am designed to carry more than 3 babies. i dont trust this one to not come early, but i didnt worry at all about this with my other two. funny. 

hope your bhs turn out entirely normal. But do get checked.

and bless your 3 year old! my 4 year old has been making a list since last boxing day!!
my 2 year old however said yesterday he didnt like father Chirstmas and he doesnt like presents....surely that will change.
i dont think the 2 year old has any idea what is really happening in my tummy. he said he had a baby in his tummy the other day. and i explained that no, she is only in mummys tummy and she will come out soon and live with us. a real little baby girl. to which he simply said _no.no, i dont like the babies_ he said. oops, too late Sam! lol


----------



## SierraJourney

wamommy---the only time I have had that many Braxton Hicks is when I was cleaning the other day---I definitely overdid it because I was having so many BH that it felt like my belly was permanently tensed for the rest of the evening. After sleeping and resting, they subsided. Definitely talk with your doctor---and in my (limited) experience, make sure that you are not over-doing it!

Everyone's kids are so cute! 

Helena, my neice (who is 3) keeps telling me that she has a baby in her belly. She also has repeatedly told me that the baby in MY belly is her SISTER! :haha: She's a treasure and comes up, puts a tiny hany on my belly and whispers, "Baby, come out now." :)


----------



## Kellen

Ladies, those are the sweetest stories about kiddos. My nephew, who is five, when asked where babies come from he said: "The baby store." When pressed for more information he told us: "Not the baby store where you get baby stuff, but the baby store where they hook you up to a machine that takes the baby out of your stomach."

I have been having BH since October. They don't come all the time and they aren't painful to me. It just feels like all my stomach muscles are tensing for a moment or two and then it goes away. Our midwife said that if I had more than 4 an hour it could be a sign of preterm labor and to call immediately.


----------



## wamommy

Well, poo. I hope it's all normal! I leave for the Dr in an hour, so I'll be sure to tell you what she says. 

Helena, I feel the same way! I feel like my body is too "tired" to have this 3rd baby. I feel like I'm 70 years old and am concerned about baby coming early. I felt FINE with both of my girls up until the week or so before they were born. Maybe it's our bodies' way of telling us 3 is our limit? Quite possibly!

I love hearing all of the stories about kids! It's amazing how different they all are. Won't it be fun to get to know these new ones?


----------



## wamommy

Well, today has been a crazy day. I went to the Doctor and told her what's been going on. She says that Braxton Hicks increase in frequency and severity with each pregnancy, which may be why I'm having so many. Also, when I went in at 29 weeks I measured 28. This time I went in at 32 weeks and measured 33. She says the large growth spurt could be making my uterus freak out. I'm supposed to lessen my activity level, and take it easy. She said when it happens to change what I'm doing. If I'm moving, sit down... if I'm sitting down, get up and walk around. Let's hope it works!

She also told me something I didn't know but wanted to pass along. I was really anemic last appointment and they put me on iron supplements. I've been taking them with my prenatal at lunch. Today I found out that your body can only absorb a certain amount of iron, and that you should take iron supplements separate from your prenatal, since it contains iron too. :dohh: Well, now I know... they'll recheck in 2 weeks to see if it helps.

All in all baby looks great, though! He's still head down, with his back facing my right hip bone. His heart beat was 142 today, and my blood pressure was good. I've gained 23 pounds total now, which apparently is right where I should be. I feel like I've loaded on the weight lately, but since they're shooting for 30 pounds when I deliver, it seems about right. 

After my appointment I ran and bought the last couple Xmas gifts I needed to mail, picked up my Xmas cards (which were left in the RAIN on my porch which destroyed the envelopes...rage...) and then stood in the post office line from hell for an hour. I dropped my step daughter off at Taekwondo, then killed an hour at the mall with my little ones until I had to pick her up. I just got home (8pm) and we still haven't had dinner :( I'm about to start cooking. So much for slowing down!! I don't know how I'm expected to, especially this time of year.

Sorry for the long post! I hope everyone is doing well!!


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## helena

wamommy. i had to smile at your attempts to slow down!.... its tough isnt it.
I just did the supermarket pre christmas big shop. just need to go back on christmas eve to get the turkey i orederd and more milk. now my pelvis is killing me!..a cup of tea and a mincepie have helped.
the supermarkets here in france drive me mad though. they arent into customer service like the uk or us. i had packed a zillion bags at the checkout, lugged them into the trolley and then the check out girl says my multipack of milk , about 8litres, is split and i need to go back and change it. which would mean me getting the 2 year old out of the shopping cart, who was being bribed with a lolly pop to stop climbing out of the cart, carrying him to the aisle..if i let him walk he would raid every shelf and have a fab time running aournd.., carrying him and the milk back to checkout, all while i am already out of puff from packing and my pelvis is about to fall off.. i just asked if it is really me who has to go back and she said yes. why she couldnt all for a shop assistant i have no idea. i told her to forget it, i will go back another day. she looked at me like i was bonkers when i said no its too difficult.
its not a disaster but they could certainly learn from us slightly more civilised countries on how to please shoppers!


32 weeks today! yayayayayayaaaaay!
dragon, hope you are doing good!!


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## helena

oh and just to add... urgh for nausea returning for the last few days. even at 4 am when i woke up. yuk yuk yuk.


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## Kellen

Hooray for being 32 weeks! Dragon, I hope that you and your little ones are doing well. I am looking forward to your update.

Last night DH and I took a look at the time I have accrued for both personal time off and medical time off. We decided that I'll be taking off the week before our due date and try to burn down time in January with doctor's appointments. This decision comes after a talk with my boss who just got back from maternity leave. Apparently our organization does not allow you to keep any of your leave while out on FMLA. So I either get paid for it while on those 12 weeks or I try to use it up beforehand. Since I have short-term disability and will be getting paid 60% (only after my leave is gone...) we figured I might as well try to use it up now.

So all those doctor's appointments that are coming up... totally not going to work on those days and calling in "sick." They normally wipe me out anyways so I might as well take advantage of not rushing back and forth and use the time I've been given.


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! 

Definitely try to take it easy wamommy--though I totally understand that you're finding it hard to do! I spent 3.5 hours on my feet walking yesterday trying to get our Christmas shopping finished with DH. My pelvis ACHED! Glad to hear baby is doing great, though!

helena---that would irritate me so much! How different France seems in that respect! 

I had my 32 week check-up yesterday too. I only gained 1 pound these last two weeks! HOORAY! (And that's WITH all of the junk I've been eating for the holidays! :haha: ) That puts me up for a total of 27 pounds gained so far. Midwife said after the holidays, I might want to *think* about taking a break from eating sweet things. :) lol

Baby's heartrate was 120! She kept having to check my heartrate to make sure she wasn't getting it confused with babies. She then shook my belly to try to get his heartrate up---it worked! It flew up! haha. She said baby was just being lazy!! :haha: Hopefully that means he'll be a peaceful, calm baby, like his daddy! ;)

It's snowing like crazy here today---hasn't let up all night. Glad I'm cozy in my office chair right now.

Dragon, I hope everything is going well and can't wait for an update!!!


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## SierraJourney

Oh, I forgot to say, too---baby is STILL sideways in there! Next appointment she is going to do a quick in-office (nothing pretty) ultrasound to see if he's moved. . .if not, I have to start baby-spinning exercises! Also, because he is sideways, I'm measuring small. . .she's not worried about it until he turns and they get a more accurate measure. . . but dang, he better turn soon!!!


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## DragonflyWing

The babies are here! Started bleeding last night and had to have an EMCS. Gunnar Jeremy was born 4lb3oz, and Lilja May was 3lb11oz. Both are in the NICU, and doing well. I'm a little sore but also doing well they are so cute.


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## Jo_Bean

Omg!! Congratulations Dragon! :cloud9: that is amazing news, glad you are all doing well! I can't believe the first of our little group have arrived!

So proud of you! :hugs: can't wait to see them :D xxxxx


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## SierraJourney

Congrats Dragon!!! Oh my goodness! I am soo happy that you are all doing well! I bet they are just precious!


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## helena

Yaaaaay! Congratulations!!! Glad you are all well!! Oh it's so so exciting! I just told my husband (he knew I had been checking this thread all the time for an update!) and he seemed pleased for you too!
Can't wait for pictures. Good luck with the recovery. Hope its as easy a recovery for you as my two sections were. Congrats again. Am all smiles! Xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## wamommy

Wooohoooo!!! :yipee: :yipee:

I'm so happy for you, Dragon!! I'm so glad you and the babies are doing well. Well done, you!! :happydance:


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## helena

Had my 32 week appointment. All good, baby head down, told me to rest p a bit more because of the couple of contractions I had (like that will happen!..) but all in all very happy.
And I only gained 1 kilo this month. Amazing as I haven't changed my eating habits as far as far ask know, I guess this little lady is fattening up instead of me. Good.
6 weeks to go.i have gained about 13 or 14 kilos. I gained 20 or 21 with my first son, can't see me reaching that this time. But there is christmas to contend with yet!...

Hope your are all well. Especially you dragon and those bambino dragons x


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## Kellen

Dragon, congrats! I am so happy to hear that you and your two munchkins are doing well. Sorry to hear about the bleed, but I'm glad you were in a good place to have your EMCS. Get well soon!

Helena - hooray for your little girl being heads down! And congrats on fattening her up. 

Glad to hear that everyone is doing well. I stayed home from work today due to the fact that I can barely walk. Went to the chiropractor and am doing slightly better. Little Missy is wedged in my pelvis and enjoys pressing on random nerves so I can't control my legs... awesome.


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## helena

Yikes kellen, sounds painful! Rest up x


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks so much! We are all doing well so far. Got to see both babies smile today! I'm going to try to get some good pictures soon. The NICU is so dark that it's difficult. They are so freaking cute, like little tiny dolls :D

Here's what i have so far:

Gunnar
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/DragonflyWings/IMG_20121220_132545.jpg

Lilja
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/DragonflyWings/IMG_20121220_131121.jpg


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## wamommy

OMG DRAGON, they are so stinkin' cute I can't take it!!! Thank you for sharing pictures with us :D I can't believe how amazing they look. You must be completely over the moon! How are you feeling?


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## helena

Oh thanks dragon! Just so perfect!! Especially loving their tiny feet!!!!Xxx


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## Jo_Bean

Bless them! So gorgeous! You must be so proud :cloud9:

How are you feeling now?


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## Midnight_Fairy

oh dragon, they are perfect. Congratulations xx


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## DragonflyWing

Doing ok, pretty sore still. I slept through my last pain medication time, and I'm paying for it now! Getting up every 3 hours to pump, but my milk hasn't come in yet, so I'm getting either a few drops of colostrum or nothing at all. They tell me it should come in within the next 2 days or so. 

We should get to hold the babies later today! I can't wait.


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry, double post


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## Kim2012

Congrats Dragon .The babies are too cute for words!!!! Really really adorable


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## Jo_Bean

That's going to be an amazing moment when you get to hold them!! :cloud9:


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## munchkinlove

DragonflyWing said:


> Thanks so much! We are all doing well so far. Got to see both babies smile today! I'm going to try to get some good pictures soon. The NICU is so dark that it's difficult. They are so freaking cute, like little tiny dolls :D
> 
> Here's what i have so far:
> 
> Gunnar
> https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/DragonflyWings/IMG_20121220_132545.jpg
> 
> Lilja
> https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/DragonflyWings/IMG_20121220_131121.jpg

coming from a NICU nurse......they look great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im glad to see they are doing well.:happydance:


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## Kellen

Dragon, your little ones look amazing! They are so adorable. I'm glad that you will be able to hold them soon. Sorry you are in pain, but I'm so very glad that everything turned out okay. This just makes it more real that pretty soon a bunch of us will have live squirming babies in our arms.


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## DragonflyWing

We held them last night, and it was amazing! They are so tiny, they feel weightless. I'm pretty sure it helped my milk supply, because I went from getting 1ml per day to 40ml in 3 sessions :D

Going home today, and woke up in the night crying because I don't want to leave my babies. That's going to be hard.


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> Going home today, and woke up in the night crying because I don't want to leave my babies. That's going to be hard.

Oh, I'm sure :( Did they give you an estimate as to how long they'll have to stay in the NICU? How often do you get to come in and be with them? I'm so glad you got to hold them :D

I was up all night the night before last with contractions... I stood in the shower at 4:00am trying to get them to stop with hot water. I sobbed and sobbed, thinking I'd ruin everyone's Christmas, since the girls' presents aren't even wrapped! Finally at 9am they stopped and I was able to sleep for a couple of hours. I tried calling my midwife's on-call line, since they are closed on Saturdays, and waited ALL DAY for a call back. They never called. I figure if the contractions don't come back I should be ok? I might call or go in on Monday, if they're even open. For now I'm trying to take it super easy, but DH has been in an awful, awful mood the last few days and things are very tense and stressful around my house. All I have to do is get through Christmas, right? Then I can rest...

How is everyone else doing? Any plans for Christmas?


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## helena

Oh wamommy, sorry to hear about they contractions, and you not getting called back! That is terrible. Cn you not call the maternity department at e hospital direct if you are worried?
Tell DH to pull himself together.
I woke in pains on Friday night at 4am! I also was thinking about the kids presents I haven't started wrapping yet. I made a mental list of 3 gifts DH would have to wrap and give them, and the rest could wait until new year if I ended up in hospital. Luckily the period type pains faded and I slept again. Did you have lots of contractions? I would go be checked out mabe, if you have time today....
But I guess of no liquid has come out and the pains have stopped and baby is moving ok, you should be ok...maybe it is jus stress. Quickly get the wrapping done then relax. Are you at home on Christmas Day? We are, it's just us 4, so I am hoping to make it as easy as possible. The boys aren't bothered about Christmas dinner that much, so as long as it is nice ish me and DH will be happy. W have turkey, roast potatoes, Veges and English Christmas pudding and cake. But at least there are no visitors so who cares if the roast potatoes aren't as crunchy as they could be?! Ad who will care if the pudding is microwaved?! Not me.
Facing the shops this morning to collect our turkey though...supermarket on Christmas Eve could be horrendous but a least I have already done the bulk of the shopping.

Dragon - oh so nice to hold your babies. What a christams present!!! You will be able to visit a lot of the day if you want to right? It's best you rest as much as possible so that you can have energy for all the milk you will soon be requiring. Being a dairy cow ( no offence meant!) is hard work - lots of rest, water and food for you this Christmas. I remember when my first son was born the nurses in hospital took him away for 1 hour in the night so I could sleep. I was in tears on the phone to my husband feeling like a terrible mummy, I hated being away from him. So I can't imagine how you must feel being away from them all night!..but I know my emotions were so tense because of the hormones..so try and remind yourself of that, the best thing you can do is get well and rested.
Hormones post birth are a killer....with my second I was heart broken about not being with my first son at night..I was sobbing like a baby looking out of the window towards our house. Then when I made it home my father in law made a rude comment about my tummy and I went to my bedroom, called my mum and howled. Truly heartbroken uncontrollable sobs. It wasn't post natal depression, just incredibly sensitive for about 6 days. 
S you test up dragon, look after you and the hospital will look after the babies. You will all be fine and they will be keeping you up all night before you know it!!! Xxxx


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness---off for a few days, and what excitement! Dragon, the babies are SOOOOOOOO cute!! I can't imagine having to leave them---I know that must be so hard! I hope you get to visit all of the time! 

wamommy and helena---contractions already?! That's scary! How are you both doing now? I'd be crying my eyes out in worry and stress, too! Wamommy, tell your DH he had better straighten up! I know from my experience right now, I need my DH to be as sensitive and helping as possible. 

I've been doing pretty good (knock on wood). . .the main complaint is that whenever I do *any* cleaning, my belly cramps and aches so much that I'm out of comission for the rest of the day. It's really hard to get anything done that way!

I'm heading to the in-laws for Christmas celebrations today. . .We are gonig to DH's step-sister's house for a few hours, then to his mum's house, then to Christmas Eve service at their church, then to his Aunt's house after that----and then a 2.5 hour drive late tonight! I know already that I'm going to be exhausted, but I don't want to dwell on that because I don't want to be the grumpy pregnant lady! :haha: It'll be a lot of fun---and some of these relatives haven't even seen me pregnant yet!

Tomorrow DH and I celebrate Christmas ourselves in the morning, then we head 30 minutes to my mum's house to be with my side of the family. I'm really looking forward to everything!

So. . I might be off for a couple of days, but I will try to keep checking back in. Take care of yourselves, ladies!!! And enjoy your holidays!


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## Jo_Bean

Happy Christmas to you all, I hope you have a fantastic time and I'll 'see' you all in 2013 when we get to meet our little babies!!

:hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Merry Christmas everyone :) 

The babies are doing great...now that my milk is in (getting 4 oz per pump, yay!), they're getting exclusively breast milk, no more formula. They are both getting 25 ml every 3 hours, so right now I'm already making enough to feed both of them. I'm so proud of my boobs lol :haha:. Lilja barfed on me tonight for the first time today Hehe, I'm sure the first of many.

As for me, my pain is much better today. I walked around quite a bit today, going to rent a pump and then visiting the babies, and I'm feeling pretty good. Not too tired, either, although I have to sleep in a recliner since it's not comfortable to sleep flat yet. My belly had gone down so much, it feels SO weird not having my bump anymore. I get a little teary every time I look in the mirror and remember that I don't have my babies with me all the time anymore. I love them more than I can even believe but I want them to be safe in my belly a while longer. *sniffle* 

Here's a picture of my 5 day post partum belly. The bottom part is still swollen, but the top is pretty much as flat as pre-pregnancy. I haven't weighed myself yet, I'll probably do that tomorrow.
 



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## helena

Glad all is ok dragon :)
And congratulations on the vomit :) hehehe.

I hear there are support corsets that can help with pain when moving post c section, and help with swelling. I am going to get one to wear for the couple of weeks after the op as I think it would have really helped me last time.

Don't worry about being swollen on the lower tummy, I always was below the scar.

My bump is feeling huge. It's about as big as my second baby on the night before he was born. 5 weeks and 2 days left until my c section date...no wonder I am already getting so many aches!

Had a lovely easy Christmas Day with my family yesterday, although sitting on the floor while my boys opened presents almost finished my pelvis off. Bt t was a nice easy day, stayed home, nice dinner, lots of play and Disney films. Just the easy Christmas I needed.
And a lovely big cheese board once the boys were in bed. So even though i hadnt been able to have a drink (which i did miss!) i felt a bit like a grown up a least once. Yum. 

Hope you all had a lovely day xx


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## Kellen

Merry Day after Christmas everyone!

I am pleased that your babies are doing so well, Dragon, and that they are able to get all their nutrition straight from you! I would be a mess too if I had to be away from my little one when she arrives. 

Wamommy, contractions plus a non-cooperative husband does not sound like a fantastic combination. I hope that everything turned out okay and that your little one wants to stick around inside for a little bit longer.

I actually called off work on Friday because I could almost literally not walk. I guess the baby must have dropped a bit or something. I was barely able to take a step and couldn't get pants on without DH helping. It felt like my pubic area was super bruised and very sore. All I did was lounge in bed and take it easy. Saturday was a little bit better and Sunday was good. However, I over did Christmas prep on Monday and was back to hobbling around on Christmas day. We just stayed in an had our last "alone" Christmas. It was very nice and relaxed.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---you look fabulous! It's crazy how LONG it takes to get that bump and in how fast it can go down! I'm so happy to hear that you're able to feed the babies so well now! That's awesome!!

I hear you ladies on the soreness! DH says I look like an old-lady when I move sometimes. . .my pubic area is SO sore! :( 

The holidays were wonderful, and I am now back at work. My house is a disaster after just throwing things everywhere while running out the door to various parties, etc. So, this week, I HAVE to pick up and clean (MIL is coming over this weekend, so want everything to look good!).

DH treated me so good this Christmas---very romantic and telling me how beautiful I am and that he's so thankful for me in his life. Made my whole year just listening to him! I'm so lucky to have him. Does anyone else have a sort-of melancholy about "losing" that special me-and-you time that you have with your DH? I talked with DH last night about how I'm a bit sad that things are going to change. Obviously, I'm happy to have our son soon and know that will bring TREMENDOUS joy, but I know things will never be the same with DH and I again. And I'm going to miss that. :( 

Also, what is everyone doing concerning visitors while you're at the hospital and when you first get home? I'm going to wait a few hours after birth to let people come to the hospital---because I want to breastfeed and spend time with baby and get myself looking a bit more presentable before everyone floods in. But, are you limiting who comes? I feel like it's going to be SO many people---my mum, sisters, their husbands, my neices, MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL, possibly some of DH's aunts and uncles, and some friends. Will this be just too overwhelming? But how can I say "no"? Also, I feel that my family and DH's mum and dad will want to come to our house very often the first few days after birth. . .which I don't want to deny them their grandson, but I feel I'll be still awkwardly trying to figure out breastfeeding, still trying to understand my baby, etc, and honestly, *I* want to hold him. lol I don't really want to share. . . But I know they will just want to be there because they love us and him. . . so how can I say "no"? And will it really be that bad if they are around? I feel like I'm making a big deal about it when maybe it might be nice to have so many people doting on us? What are all of you doing? Any "rules"?


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## Kellen

Sierra, that is so sweet that your DH is treating you so well. Mine is being an absolute amazing man. He gave me a necklace for Christmas that has two hearts that are ringed with diamonds with a pink gold heart inside of them to represent our growing family. Yes, there were many tear split... but they were good!

In a way I am thankful that the majority of our family lives out of state. My folks are in Oregon and DH's are in Texas. We have a family we are close to, but no extended family around. So our basic plan is to allow that one family to come visit the day after our daughter is born. Visit for 20 minutes (maybe less depending on how I feel) and then send them away.
Our families (okay, mine because his hasn't decided whether or not they will actually come visit) are planning to stagger visits to come see the baby after we have had the first two weeks at home alone. DH has been researching past weather patterns and is praying for a snow storm for those two weeks so we can all be comfy and cozy together. Personally this would stink because I'd be missing out on great OT at work since we activate for major weather...


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## SierraJourney

Aww Kellen--that necklace sounds so pretty! What a sweetheart! 

Your plans sound great for after baby is born!! Lucky! :)


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## Kellen

My mom does have airline tickets on standby in case I have a major meltdown or have to have a C-Section or if some other complication occurs. DH's dad just lost his job so I'm pretty sure that unless one of DH's many brothers or sister decided to volunteer to drive them out to see us that they won't be coming to visit any time soon. Which, no offense to them, doesn't bother me all that much. They smoke and would be very unhappy with my "if you smoke you don't hold my baby" rule.


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## SierraJourney

lol---that's a good rule!


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## helena

A long as o one smokes around my baby I will still let them hold her. My mum smokes but wouldn't dreamof doing so inside or near the children.

I think visitors after birth are such a tricky situation. When I had my first my inlaws came for 10 (!!!) days about a week after he was born. It was so overwhelming. Luckily we had a granny annex, like a little house separate to our main house, so we weren't always on top of each other. But like you said Sierra, I wanted to hold my baby and not share. I felt I needed to! Also when my MIL was holding baby and he cried I couldn't stand the fact she didn't hand him straight back to me. I couldn't stand anyone but me or my husband to be the ones trying to soothe the baby. It may sound over controlling to some but it was how I felt.
With my second son they came for a week. Also too long. Though I Was more willing to share baby and that wasn't so bad.
This time they are coming for the time I will be in hospital, to help DH with our other two children. And to get their visit a bit out of the way while I am not here...I get so stressed with them. They can see me in hospital for short visits.. Then they will stay just one or two night after I come out. Then we want a week on our own before my own parents come to stay for 3 days (much better length!). But really, you have to say no if you want. Breasfeeding is tough, I want to spend the first few days on the sofa in my pjs with my boobs out if I have to (my sons are young enough to not care, though the 4 year old may have a snigger). 
We need time to bond and to adjust and to learn to feed baby. If you can have visitors for just half an hour chunks in that first week could that work? They will see baby then leave you for a week to get on with it in an ideal world.
What's a week in the baby's whole lifetime?!
It's noting to others. But very precious to mums. So don't hold back, people should understand. Ad if you start talking about leaking boobs and breast pads and cracked nipple etc, most will embarrassedly hurriedly agree to leaving after a short while! Lol. 

I can't remember if I was sad at losing time alone being just me and DH. There s always evenings. When my second baby came along I automatically put him into the same bedtime routine as his brother so both go to bed at 7 or 7.30. It's perfect and very important to my sanity :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks helena---I like the shorter increments idea---just have them maybe for 30 minutes at a time. And the nice thing is that my DH's folks have a cottage near us that they can stay in. My mum might want to stay with us, but my sister also lives in the same town as us, so mum could always stay with her, too.


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## helena

Ah yes, maybe suggest she stays with your sister to avoid the noisy nights...and to give you the chance to not feel pressured if baby is screaming in the night. That was the bad thing about people being in the house 24 hrs, it's like they can judge you, even if they don't...like I can imagine my MiL wanting to come and help if baby is crying at 2am. But that would make me flip...
When I was in hospital last time my eldest son woke crying in the night as she was missing me and he slept with my husband. He still cried a bit so my MIL went in to see him (them). Drove my husband bonkers!
Luckily we have renovated a new spare room so they will be downstairs this time. Hopefully out of ear shot.


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## Kellen

helena said:


> But really, you have to say no if you want. Breasfeeding is tough, I want to spend the first few days on the sofa in my pjs with my boobs out if I have to (my sons are young enough to not care, though the 4 year old may have a snigger).
> 
> It's noting to others. But very precious to mums. So don't hold back, people should understand. Ad if you start talking about leaking boobs and breast pads and cracked nipple etc, most will embarrassedly hurriedly agree to leaving after a short while! Lol.

My DH is super excited about not having visitors for those two weeks after our girl is born. He has already declared (to both his parents and mine and yes - the man has no shame:dohh:) That the two weeks after Teagen is born shall be declared: "The Two Weeks of Nakedness!" :blush: He will then explain that this is so I don't have to worry about whipping out a boob for freeding... Did I ever say this would be a problem? I'm a very conservative person so thanks for telling the world... Men... I love him, but somethings I just want to smash my head into a wall. :nope:


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## SierraJourney

Omg Kellen--that's so hilarious! My DH is still a little weirded out that my boobs will be used for feeding. I don't think he'll come near them until after I'm done breastfeeding for good!:dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Gunnar and Lilja are one week old today!

I like the 2 week rule, Kellen! We didn't have any visitors in the hospital, and we haven't decided yet whether we want anyone visiting the NICU. Since it's flu season, I don't want to take any chances. We might put one or two people on the list to visit, mostly because we want the babies to have some company if we can't make it to the hospital. of course, it's super hard to decide who to put on the list! I hate excluding people, but my babies are my priority.

Here are a couple pictures from tonight :)
 



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## Jo_Bean

They are so adorable!


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## Kellen

Dragon, those are some super cute babies you have there. I completely understand wanting to keep germs away from your little ones. That is also a factor that played into our two week decision.

Sierra, DH is already freaked out by the small amount of leakage that I've experienced. He has - for the moment - sworn of all boob touching unless it is in the shower where he can rinse. :dohh: We'll see how long that lasts since I'd like to BF for 18 months if possible.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---what adorable pictures! Such cuties!! They look AMAZING!!!

Kellen---that's hilarious. I haven't leaked yet, but DH is already worried! haha


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## helena

A week! Already! Well done babies. They are beautiful. Hope you are feeling ok xx

I am feeling so heavy, not sure how the next 5 weeks will go. And so many twinges in the nether-regions. I swear this baby is a small elephant. I am the size I was the night before my second child was born. I have outgrown virtually all my trousers. Looks like skirts or legions for me for 5 weeks. I look like a bag lady. All long skirts, dodgy cardigans and my husbands coat!...
Went to ikea today. That was tough. Got tired, my vision went funny (happens when I am pregnant tired) and had to keep sitting down or feeling crappy in queues. Urgh. Can't bend without being in pain. Roll on 1st feb! X


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## SierraJourney

helena--I understand the heaviness and twinges! I was out on the couch all evening yesterday after work. SO tired and my body just HURT! :( Put the crazy acid reflux in there, and I was doing a lot of whining! lol 

Try to rest as much as possible---that's the only way I'm getting through! (However, the insane to-do list is still getting me frustrated and worried----does anyone else have their bags packed or the carseat installed in the car? I need to do those things. That, and DH and I still need to put together a few of the baby's furniture items and we are shopping for another car-----silly us, amidst the baby-excitement, just NOW realized that if I have to go anywhere with the baby while he is at work, we're going to need a second vehicle!) AHHH!


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## Jo_Bean

I've been panicking too! I don't have my bag packed and I haven't finished the nursery and I've still got a million things to do! It's so hard to get things done though as I either forget what I was doing or am too tired to do it!


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## SierraJourney

So glad to know that I'm not alone Jo! I forget things, too, which is why I made a running "to-do" list on my kitchen counter so I have to look at it every day and check things off once they are done! I hear you on the tired-thing too! It's so frustrating because all of these things need to get done and I don't have energy for it! We have a few items to finish in our nursery, too! Ahhh!


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## Kellen

I just realized today that I'm 33 weeks and that means I should probably have a bag packed. I mean, I knew I how far along I was, but until I stopped to think about it it never sank in that this will be happening soon!

We have not put together the nursery, but I am going to try to convince DH to open the box that our car seat is in. We have a local "safety village" that will correctly install the car seat and then teach you how to do it. We are also discussing buying another car or a small pickup so that DH will have something other than his motorcycle to ride. I think this means I might sell my motorcycle so we don't have car payments on top of a baby. If I want to ride I'll just hijack his... it was offered to me first after all.

Tomorrow we have an appointment with our midwife. I'm excited to hear the heartbeat again (it never gets old!). I am also going to be asking about Red Raspberry Leaf Tea, renting a pump from the hospital and any other random questions that come to mind.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen---it's gone by so quickly---it's hard to comprehend that we actually need to be READY now! lol

I'll be interested to hear what your midwife says about Red Raspberry Leaf Tea ---I've been drinking it EVERY DAY (5 days a week since before conception), and my midwife encourages me to keep drinking it the entire pregnancy. I've heard various views on this, but it's been good for me so far---I like to think it has strengthened my uterus.. . we'll see if it helps labor! ;)


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## wamommy

Hello, ladies! I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas. Ours was pretty crazy around here, and we're still recovering. At least I got the wrapping paper out to the recycling bin and the floor vacuumed today!

DragonflyWing, your babies are beyond adorable. I'm so proud of them AND you for doing so well!! Gigantic congrats!

Helena, I feel your pain. I look and feel like a 70-year-old woman as I hobble around my house. I can't believe you only have 5 weeks to go! 

I haven't packed a hospital bag or washed the bassinet cover yet. I think I should probably get around to it! I also have to move both of my DDs' carseats to the back row of the van to install the baby's seat in the middle row. I'm not sure how it's all going to work. I know that I better get started, because my OB is estimating this baby to come at 36 weeks... if I can make it that long. She's afraid to check for dilation, since that can sometimes irritate the cervix and START labor. For now I'm supposed to take it really easy, rest on my side for 1 hour twice a day, and call immediately if I have any bleeding. It's so weird... this is baby #3, and I feel like it's my first time! Things are so different and my body is being so odd. Ah well, mother nature has a way of doing what's best.


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## helena

Oh wamommy, so exciting she thinks baby could be here in three weeks! Scary too. Is it just because its baby no 3? Oh gosh!....

I bought a nice new chair and put it inhale playroom yesterday it will be my feeding chair. The playroom is going to have to double as baby's nursery until our house renovations are finished next year..I will just have to dodge the cars and duplo bricks in the night!...her cot is up but full of all the other baby junk we need including the car seat. DH can work out fitting that when I am in hospital if needs be. It's just the carry part, not a base, so is simple to put in. Not sure if we will buy a base or not, will see how we go. I know that in less than a year she will outgrow this seat anyway. I absolutely must get out the baby clothes from in storage and see what will be suitable. I am not sure if we even have any vests for pjs for a newborn.
And I must start a hospital bag soon. Will get it all done once new year is done if not before.

Have friends for dinner this eve. It's been ages since we entertained at home. Ad will no doubt be the last time until next summer. Hoping my tiredness lasts the evening!
Planning some sort of asparagus and puff pastry and Parmesan starter, Thai green curry then chocolate fondant for desert. All very easy and can be done in advance, yum. Just need to tackle the messy post Christams house first..luckily DH has two weeks off for the holidays so is here to help :)

Good news is that I have only been up once or max twice a night for a wee the last few nights, and baby seems to be quiet at night until I get up. So I have my fingers crossed for a good sleeper!


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## SierraJourney

Looks like we all have to get moving on getting baby stuff ready! My house is *mostly* picked up from Christmas, but I have to vacuum. I also did another load of baby clothes in the laundry last night---yay! Tonight, DH is installing curtains that his mother bought us for Christmas, and hopefully putting together the glider for the nursery as well! I'll continue to clean for the in-laws coming this weekend. :) I think we are going to finish up our baby shopping next week---which will then create more laundry, more unpacking toys, etc, and I'm sure more assembly! lol 

helena--that's so great that you are entertaining tonight---it has seemed like ages since I have done that! I hope you have tons of fun and your tiredness doesn't get in the way!!

wamommy--seriously, 3 weeks?! Holy cow! That's soooo soon!!


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## Kellen

Looks like we all have exciting things going on right now! Congrats on being able to entertain, Helena, that is a huge undertaking... even when not pregnant! Wamommy, three weeks seems like tomorrow in the land of fast moving holiday's. Sierra, you are ahead of me. I still need to sort through the baby clothes that I've been given and see what I am keeping and what I am taking to the consignment store.

This morning we had an appointment with our midwife... but it turns out she was sick so we saw the brand new midwife (new to the practice, but 15 years experience). She was nice, but it was kind of weird asking her questions she we didn't know her. Little girl's HB was 140 and kept kicking the doppler which made the midwife giggle. DH has been given permission to begin perineum massage which made him gleeful. She also said drinking RLT would be a great idea and that at 36 weeks I should begin EPO to soften the cervix.

Then I dropped DH off at work and drove to my work. I logged into my work email, took care of a few things and decided to check my personal email. I have a conference call interview on January 3rd. I am so excited. The new job would be in Portland so we'd be moving cross-country (again!), but I am so happy. All my family is in Oregon and I'm not really happy in Georgia. I like my current job, but this new one suites my personality even better! Called my mom (and woke her up due to the 3 hour time difference). Now she won't stop texting me LOL. DH is excited too and after the interview wants to start looking at transferring his job (his company is nationwide). I really want to get back to the Pacific Northwest and not raise my child in the South. So excited!


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## SierraJourney

That's great news Kellen!! How exciting!! I hope the interview goes well!


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## Kellen

The job also has the bonus of starting off about $17k/year than I currently make. And when (I'm skipping "if") we move there my aunt and uncle have graciously offered us their travel trailer until we can find a more permanent abode. Also our little girl will get to grow up with her girl cousins who are 3, 5 and 7.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness---that's great!!! Just what a growing family needs! So nice of your family to help out, too! Fingers crossed for you!


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## Kellen

And because I now have zero ability to concentrate at work I went and looked up the benefits that accompany this position. There is a daycare in the building I would work at. That was one of the major issues DH and I were having with living here. We had viewed a couple of places and gotten prices, but hadn't made any firm decisions. Being able to run down stairs several times a day and check on my baby would make life 100% better for me. Also Portland has awesome public transportation. Depending on where we live we probably won't need a second car thanks to the mass transit system there. I'm just a wee bit excited and completely random right now.


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## SierraJourney

That's a HUGE plus! I keep trying to get my bosses to put a daycare upstairs---there is room for it and everything! I wouldn't need to work from home if there was a daycare at work. That's just fabulous! AND to save money on a second vehicle---heck yes! Sounds so wonderful---I really hope you get the position!! 

DH and I are trying to figure out the car-situation. We have two vehicles that we like. One is within our budget, so we could buy it out-right, but it is older and might not last that long (1999). The other one is slightly out of budget, so we'd have to get a loan for it and make payments for a year, but it is a 2002 and may last longer. So, we're torn. . . Not sure what to do. . .Any awesome advice from you lovely ladies?


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## wamommy

Kellen, the new job sounds wonderful!!! I'm a bit biased, being from Seattle, but I LOVE the Pacific Northwest, and think Portland is just amazing. Being closer to family is a huge bonus too, as is the pay increase AND the at-work daycare! It sounds like a great opportunity, and I will be crossing every finger that your interview goes well.

As for why my OB thinks I'll pop at 36 weeks, she says it's because my last labor was less than 2 hours (at 38 weeks) and I'm already showing symptoms of the early stages of labor. The thing is, I've been reading up on it (gotta love Google!) and I could technically walk around with these early contractions for WEEKS. Maybe it's just her gut? Maybe she's trying to make me get a move on and have everything ready just in case? I'll ask her more details at my appointment on Wednesday. 

Helena, how you have the energy to have house guests I have no idea! Not to mention, I don't cook food like that when I'm NOT pregnant! I hope it's fun!

My goal for today is to get the covers for both pack and plays washed and put back on. I never washed them when I shoved them in the closet after DD outgrew them. I hate to think what kind of slobber/barf/pee etc is on those! Yuck... but it gives me a manageable goal for the day.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I'm so curious--let us know what she says! I think your goal is very good for today! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, that new job sounds amazing! Good luck with the interview!

Both babies were smiling constantly today! It was so cute.
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness!!!!! SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cute Dragon! Awwww. :cloud9:


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## wamommy

:happydance: SO cute, Dragon!! My favorite are the long fingers in the second picture! :D What beautiful babies!


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## helena

Good luck Kellen.

Today I am TIRED. Took the kids to a play center full of bouncy inflatable castles etc yesterday afternoon before rushing back to make dinner for our dinner guests.
dinner guests left at12.30.....tidied up and into bed by 1ish I guess. Them my youngest tried to get into my bed at 3.i took him back to his own. He came back an hour later, I hadn't the energy to take him back so let him in. He then wriggled and fidgeted for half an hour. Meanwhile DH snored...(only does after a few drinks)....
Slept again at 4ish. Both boys up at 6.30... And I had promised DH I would do the breakfast shift with the kids this morning since he had a few drinks...I am too kind.....


On the plus side, it was fun and my food was fabulous, even if I do say so myself. I highly recommend the menu, so easy and most done in advance, but looks like you put in effort :) I don't however recommend bed at 1am...Urgh....zzzzz. That's my socializing done until the summer...


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## wamommy

How exhausting, Helena!! It's sounds like a wonderful day, though. Your DH is one lucky man, by the way! Taking the morning shift was really generous, especially since you didn't even get to have the drinks with him!

I'm up way too late pondering over more and more baby names. I have probably looked at thousands in the last few weeks. DH doesn't seem that interested, except to veto EVERY idea I have. He only does internet searches like, "manly baby names," "tough boy names," and "names Dads will love." We got in a bit of a fight last night over it. I'm just afraid he's going to back me into a corner just like last time, refusing to choose any name I like. Eventually I'll have to give in so that baby has a name! It's infuriating. I'm trying not to panic about it too much, but it's kind of important! :dohh:

How was everyone's weekend? What are your plans for New Years?


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## Jo_Bean

What are his suggestions Wamommy?


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## SierraJourney

helena---kudos on a job well done entertaining! It sounds tiring, but also fun!!

wamommy--that's frustrating! Have you tried searching together so you can see the lists together? Maybe then it might be easier to find names you both agree on?

DH and I finally decided yesterday that the baby's middle name will be his father's middle name (his father passed when he was 13---so it was really important to DH to honor his father). I'm really excited about both names we have picked out---and can't wait to share them with you all once baby is born!

I felt yucky all day yesterday---not really sure why. Baby was moving, but not as much as usual. I think I caught a bug and it drained him, too. :( Poor guy. :( HOWEVER, after 5 hours of driving yesterday, DH and I picked out a great new (to us) car! It's a Land Rover---suitable to be good on winter roads with baby, and to haul all of our music equipment PLUS baby equipment whenever we have any concerts! :) We're very pleased. We pick it up for good this weekend. YAY for one more thing checked off the to-do list!

Other than that, DH put together the glider for the nursery and I finished baby laundry (for now). Tomorrow we go to the store and finish up the rest of our baby-shopping and I'll be ready for him to come! (Save for a few odds and ends that I want to do to the house before baby comes---and packing those darn hospital bags, which still hasn't happened!) lol

Wednesday I have another midwife appointment to see if baby has turned or if he is still transverse---he'd better hurry up and move---mommy is getting nervous! Also start our childbirth class Wednesday evening! It's all getting so real!!

Tonight we are having my family over for games and movies and food for New Year's Eve. I woudln't really call it "entertaining" because my family is all so easy-going and they are all bringing food. . .so not much work for me at all. ;) 

Hope everyone is well!


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## helena

Hi all, sounds like we are all busy in our ways. 

Name decisions are so tough aren't they. I came up with a new one, despite the fact we are settled on one, but my 4 yet old just says no. Though he did say he would consider the name Pink Panther...funny boy.

We are staying home tonight maybe a takeaway curry and bed before midnight, so rock n roll! My late night entertaining last Saturday really did me in, I was rubbish all day. Want be doing that again in a hurry!
Anyone ave exciting plans to see in the new year?


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## Jo_Bean

We are settled on our name now finally and we are quite used to it now so no changing it for any reason!!! It took us long enough to agree on one!

We're having a quiet evening tonight. Just a family meal and then bed :haha:

Happy new year to you all!! We'll soon be able to say our babies are due this year! :wohoo::ignore:


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## wamommy

Jo_Bean said:


> What are his suggestions Wamommy?

That's the problem! DH only shouts out names that are half joking, and never seems to seriously stop and think. He suggests names like Angus, Diesel, and Tank, and then laughs... When I suggest a name he ruins it... For instance, I said "I like Henry," to which he answered "and his football team can shorten it to Hank!!" Ugh... I've asked him to make a serious list of 20 names and I will do the same, and then we can compare. Cross your fingers!

Everyone's plans sound wonderful, actually! Gone are the days of high heels and champagne on New Years, eh? :haha: We'll probably pop in a Tinkerbell movie and try to stay up until midnight. I like watching the fireworks from the Spaceneedle on our local TV. Maybe we'll order a pizza or something so I don't even have to cook!!

Sierra, the car sounds great! That's a huge one to cross off of your list. We have a tiny van called a Mazda5, or Mazda Premacy in some countries. It's technically a 6-seater, but the back row is tiny. To make it work will be a real stretch. I see us shopping for bigger vans in the near future!!

Happy New Year, ladies!! May this year bring our beautiful babies safe and healthy into this world! :flower:


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## SierraJourney

Yes, definitely gone are the days of champagne and high heels. lol Part of me misses that, and part of me loves being home and relaxing!! :) 

Thanks wamommy---we're so excited about the car---this will be our second car. . .because since I'll be working from home, I'll need a car to take to meetings/appointments while DH takes a vehicle to work. Plus, the Land Rover has been DH's dream vehicle---the year, make, and everything about it is what DH has dreamed of---so I'm pretty happy we were able to do that for him. :) And since it was used and an older year, it was right within budget! 

I can definitely see you shopping for a car soon---sounds like it'll be really tight!!


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## wamommy

I think so! We might be able to make it work... Right now my girls or in the middle row, and we usually drive around with the back row folded down for space. On the rare occasion that my 16-year-old step-daughter rides with us, we flip one back seat up. When the baby comes we're planning on putting the 2 little ones in the back row, taking out one middle seat (for easy access to the kids) and putting baby in the middle...sigh. It will be tight! Maybe my job today will be to clean out the car to try out the new arrangement??

Here's what it looks like:
 



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## SierraJourney

Wow. . .that's a cool vehicle! I'd definitely try the arrangement--and if it doesn't work, then you can start looking for something different.


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## Jo_Bean

Oh Wamommy, I feel for you :hugs: 

Mine was like that with names from Spartacus :dohh: he'll come round eventually xx


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## DragonflyWing

Happy new year ladies! 

DH and I planned to watch movies and drink a little wine at home tonight, but we couldn't bear to leave the NICU, so we brought in the new year cuddling a couple of tiny snoozing babies :D


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## helena

Oh that is cute Dragon :)

Wamommy, I actually really really like your DH's Angus suggestion!


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## helena

Urg...have been in bed for 15 hours so far with gastro or food poisoning the is tough.
Both ends..sorry, tmi...trying to keep hydrated. Tough.
Baby seems ok, quiet but has moved. The pre diarrhea cramps were a bit unsettling, I wasn't sure if it was contractions!. My head pounds, nausea on and off, body aches, feel hot though the thermometer tells me I am ok...oh what a start to 2013!
..luckily DH has the rest off the week off work and he is being brilliant with the kids.

Hope your new year is going better than mine!!


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## SierraJourney

oh helena! That's wretched! I'm sorry! I hope you get some rest in spite of the bug! :( My neice had that a couple of days ago, and I was kissing all over her before I knew---so I've been expecting to get it, but so far so good!

I kind-of like the name Angus, too!

Dragon---that's a wonderful way to bring in the new year! How precious!!


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## Kellen

Helena - that sounds horrid! I'm glad that your DH is able to help out with your two kiddos. I cannot imagine how wretched you must feel.

Dragon - I would have voted for baby snuggles too. That sounds like a perfect way to bring in the new year.

I am on the fence about "Angus." The first thing that pops in to my mind is McGyver. The next thing that comes to mind is Angus beef and a good steak... Perhaps I am just twisted.


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## Jo_Bean

I thought about steaks too! 

But, you have to remember that when baby is here it's more than a word, they make it a name xx


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## SierraJourney

lol--- I'm a vegetarian, so the thought didn't even cross my mind! ;)


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## Kellen

I discovered my first stretch mark this morning. Located on my right hip. For vanity's sake I am pleased that it is located within the confines of my swim suite. But I really don't care. I am just happy to have a squirming baby wiggling inside of me as I type. DH is more concerned about stretch marks than I am...


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena... I'm so sorry you're sick! Thank goodness your DH has the week off so you can rest. Let's hope it's the 24-hour kind and you feel better soon! :hugs:

You guys like Angus? I suppose my DH isn't too nuts :haha: I think steak too, like Prime Cut Angus Beef. You're right though Jo, once baby is here the name becomes a person, not just a word. My DD#1 doesn't even go by her name, she goes by a nickname we gave her weeks after birth. Who knew??

Sierra, how are you feeling? Have you had your appointment yet today? Mine is in 2 hours, and I have a list of things to ask her, since I always forget what I wanted to say!

Kellen, I wouldn't worry about one stretch mark!! I don't have any on my tummy, but my hips have a bunch. They're from growing in my teens, or maybe puberty? I don't know, but they're white and barely visible. I'm not counting myself out in the stretch mark department yet, though, since I'm SO much bigger this time around and my tummy feels like it's going to rip open!


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## SierraJourney

I'm feeling okay---just really weird. I'm not sure exactly what is going on, probably is normal, but I'm going to ask at my appointment later today. (Mine is in 2 hours, too! haha--we're in different time zones, but still, funny! ) I'm wondering if my blood pressure is higher or something? I feel headachy and flu-like but don't really have any "symptoms" per say. Just different. It's better than it was this weekend, though--that's for sure. 

I have a list of questions, too! And hopefully they'll do a quick in-office scan to see if baby has turned (though he still feels sideways to me) :( 

Kellen---my DH is worried about stretchmarks more than I am too! I can basically ask for whatever stretchmark cream/lotion/etc I want because I know he wants to avoid them! lol I just keep telling him that if they come, he'll have to just get used to them and love me all the same! ;)


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## helena

Girls are often named after pretty flowers so why not name a boy after something manly like a big juicy steak!
I finally made it out of bed to the sofa after 20 hours. Hoping I will be better by tomorrow.
Back ache now though :(

No me stretch marks here that I have spotted, but I did find some varicose veins on my left leg the ther day. Never had those before!! Luckil I read they usually disappear after birth. Made me feel like an old lady!
Hope all is well a today's appointments xx


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## Kellen

Helena - I am glad to hear that you are at least marginally feeling somewhat better. Being sick is no fun. I can't imagine how exhausted you must be with 3rd trimester tiredness on top of recovering.

I too hope that everyone's appointments go fantastically today. At my last appointment (12/28) the midwife said that the next time I go in (1/14) they will be doing the Group B Strep test. I was also told that they'll be doing vaginal examines from that point forward as well. I'll be pretty close to 36 weeks at that time so I guess it does make sense to start checking things... We only have 40 some odd days left.


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## wamommy

I just got back from my appointment, and it went fairly well! I had a finger prick to test iron, and it's still a bit low despite taking supplements. I also measured 33 weeks AGAIN, which I measure 2 weeks ago. I asked if that was a concern, and my OB said that it just meant baby had more than likely dropped down into my pelvis, which can make measurements stall or sometimes even shrink for a week or two. I figured this was the case, with all of the pressure I've been feeling on the inside of my cervix! (sorry, tmi) She didn't seem concerned about the contractions I've been having. She just said to keep up with fluids and don't do too strenuous of activities. Sigh... I guess what I'm feeling is more common than I thought? I figured something was up since I didn't feel this way (contractions, pressure, etc) with either of my girls. She said some women don't "drop" or "engage" until actual labor starts, so more than likely this is my first time going through this pre-labor.

Anyhow, things look great overall! I've gained 26 pounds total (yikes!!) but I'm trying not to fixate on it. The end is in sight, and there's a ton of time to lose it all.

Sierra, can't wait to hear about your appointment! Helena, I hope you're feeling better :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---great to hear that your appointment went well! 26 pounds is nothing! :) I've gained 29 so far! ;) 

My appointment was a bit frustrating for me. My two midwives were out of the office, and I had to have the third (NEW) midwife who is REALLY young and doesn't sound that knowledgeable to me. I told her that at my last appointment, the midwife said to make sure I get an in-office ultrasound done by this week's midwife to make sure baby is head-down (because at the last three appointments, the midwives thought baby was head down, but an ultrasound showed him transverse!). I explained this to the new midwife and told her that I keep feeling him kicking in the same spots as before, but she basically just put me up on the table, felt around, and said "Oh yeah, he's definitely head down" and wouldn't even give me the in-office ultrasound! Now, I'm a first-time mom and don't know everything about pregnancy, but I feel that nothing has changed since my last appointments, and I'm really scared that baby is sideways and she noted my chart that he isn't. :( I don't even know what to do. I'm going to ask one of my regular midwives to do the ultra-sound at my next appointment in two weeks, but won't that be too late for him to turn? :( And I really am concerned, because I feel him moving on BOTH sides of my belly at the same time every time he moves! And this morning, I felt him hiccuping on my left side, above my hip bone. Is there where you ladies are feeling things? Or do you feel things down low and under your ribs since baby is head-down? I really am so frustrated that she didn't listen to me---regardless if she is right or wrong. In my opinion she is inexperienced (she just got out of college), and isn't listening to her patients. I'm going to request not to have her again when I see my regular midwife in two weeks---and definitely request that she doesn't deliver my baby! :(

So. . .I mentioned how I was feeling, but she just kind of shrugged it off and said "it's normal". I'm so frustrated---how does she know it's normal?! She just got out of college, doesn't have kids herself, and has only been working for this office for a couple of months. But whatever. . .I'm feeling okay now, so I'm not going to worry about it. But, I'm still worried about baby being sideways or not. :(

On a different note, we had our first childbirth class last night. It went really well! DH was SO supportive and great at the floor exercises----I have myself one good massage-man for my labor! :D

It was a bit disturbing and scary to see the videos on actual births---holy cow does "down there" STRETCH! My goodness! haha. . .I mean, I always knew it did, but it's so crazy to SEE it do that! So. . .that was my excitement yesterday. :) 

How is everyone doing?


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## Kellen

Wamommy, it sounds like you are doing great even if the baby isn't measuring exactly where you'd like. I've also been experiencing those lovely cervix pains and can hardly walk at all. My little one has decided that the sciatic nerve on the left side is the best place in the world to press on. I can get her to move for a few minutes, but then she goes right back. Midwife said it is her happy place.

Sierra, your appointment sounds really frustrating. I would call back and see if they can't arrange for you to have a scan sometime this week or next... before your next appointment. If I had been treated that way I would have been very upset too. They are supposed to help you and put your mind at ease, not take the easy way out.

Today I have my interview with the people in Portland, OR. I am very excited, but also a little nervous. I've never done an interview over the phone. As a rule of thumb I'm not a big fan of communicating over the phone because you miss out on important body language clues and eye contact. However, I have prepared as much as possible. I've printed out the job description, my resume, my cover letter and my unofficial transcripts just so I have reference material in case pregnancy brain decides to strike again.

DH seems to be coming down with some sort of cold. For the past two days his throat has been itchy, his nose stuffy and he has had a headache. I've been forcing him to drink V8 (which he actually likes) and giving him vitamins. Silly man is refusing to take any vitamin C though. I know he isn't feeling good because last night he actually went to bed at 9:30 with me. It took him a while to fall asleep, but I was surprised. I also think he is running a mild fever. 

I started drinking Raspberry Leaf Tea last night. My midwife said I should drink 3-4 cups a day and continue to do so for at least 6 weeks after giving birth. It is supposed to help tone the uterus and get things back into shape. She also said that at 36 weeks I could begin taking 3 capsules of Evening Primrose Oil to help ready my cervix for labor.


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## SierraJourney

Good luck today Kellen! Let us know how it goes!!! So excited for you!


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## helena

Sierra, I am no expert, but I know my doc told me from a scan baby was head down. And I still feel him on both sides. If you imagine the head at the bottom then baby's bottom would be at the topish, leaving arms and elbows to poke you a one side and legs on the other side. Its easy to imagine them head down and fett up, which wouldnt be right.
So I think feeling baby on both sides of your tummy would be about right. 
Though she should have dne the scan if the previous ones had recommended it! Am thinking it won't be too late in 2 weeks...though I don't know for sure.

Am feeling so much better today. Even managed to go swimming with my family this morning, though it has left me wiped out. Haven't eaten much in the last 30 hours so have some catching up to do :)


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## wamommy

Sierra, how frustrating! Maybe you could call your regular midwife and tell her your concerns? They might be able to squeeze you in for a quick scan. Helena is right, though, even with baby head down you can feel movement EVERYWHERE. My LO is head down with his back along my right side, and I feel his hiccups right on my right hip bone. Who knows for sure, though. If it would relieve some stress and make the next couple of weeks easier, I would definitely try to be seen for a scan.

I remember those videos from childbirth class with DD#1!! They made me so nervous. We watched this weird one from the 1960's where none of the women made a single peep during unmedicated labor. How unrealistic! It is a bit incredible to imagine a baby coming out, but somehow it works :wacko:

Helena, I'm so glad you're feeling better :D I wish we had a pool around here. It must feel amazing to be in the water. All of this extra weight supported for a while! 

Kellen, good luck with your interview! It's smart to have all of your info handy in case pregnancy brain strikes. I'm sure you'll do amazingly! 

I'm waiting on the mailman this morning to deliver my nursing pajamas. I finally broke down and ordered some online! In all of my hospital pictures with the other 2, I am wearing the hideous hospital gown, no make-up, and I look just awful. This time I VOW to make a tiny effort after LO is born. I can at least throw my hair in a bun, toss on my new pajamas and SMILE. This may be the last LO for me, after all!!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! We'll see how I feel in a few days---regular midwife isn't back in the office until Monday, so I have a few days to think it through and calm myself. :)

wamommy--love the pajama idea! I'm going for the lovely hospital gown look myself---just for the sake of not having to pack anything else! haha. I plan on packing a going-home outfit, along with what I arrive in, and letting that be it. I over-analyze when I pack anyways, so I don't want to buy more stuff to throw in. :) Plus, DH already thinks I over-bought for baby anyways. . . ;)


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## helena

As I know I will be in hospital for at least 3 or 4 nights I wil be getting new pjs too :) but all the nursing ones I saw were long sleeved, and it will be warm in hospital. And I would prefer baby to have more skin contact while feeding, so I think I will try and find some nice vest tops I can team, with some nice pj bottoms. I will defiinately be taking makeup wamommy! And hair straighteners and any other necessaries to help me look nice in the photos! Got to look nice on Facebook. I may not glow, but I can fake it! 

Must buy nursing bras next too..would you go for a cup size bigger than you are now? I remember waking like Pamela Anderson a few days after my babies were born! It was awesome..might take a bikini top for a quick photo before they shrivel for ever! Lol :)


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## SierraJourney

:rofl: bikini top---LOVE IT! 

I'm definitely taking makeup too. I told DH that we can't have any visitors until I put on makeup--so then if they take pictures, I'll at least look awake! ;) I'm tempted to ban everyone from visiting until after I shower, too. . but who knows. :)


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## SierraJourney

Oh, and I bought a nursing bra the same size as my current bra---I was going to get a cup size bigger, but when I went to get measured last week, they actually said I was supposed to be wearing a cup size SMALLER right now than I was (WHAT?! They SHRUNK!?), so I figured if I got the same size bra I am wearing now, then it would *technically* be a cup size bigger according to last weeks' measure. . .


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## Kellen

No makeup for me. The only time I ever put it on is a for a job interview, night at the theatre or the first work of week at a new place. I find it too much of a hassle to even bother... I guess I'm a bit lazy that way. If I need a touch up I grab mascara and that is about it.

I found a nursing bra/sports bra at Burlington Coat Factory for $5. I am actually wearing it now and it is quite comfy. Since it was so inexpensive I am going to go pick up 2 in a larger size and 2 more in my current size. I figure that $20 won't be a waste. :)

DH has courteously volunteered his bathrobe to be used while we are at the hospital. I have some old yoga pants and sleep pants that have seen better days that will be in use as well.


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## wamommy

:rofl: about the bikini top, Helena! I remember the first few days after baby is born, and it is quite shocking how large they get!!

I haven't bought a nursing bra yet. I used a hand-me-down bra from my sister last time, and it was awful. She has large implants, so the bra was saggy and unsupportive on me. I took to wearing a regular bra and just pulling it up while I tried to breastfeed. It was NOT ideal!! This time I will definitely buy a couple. I think I'll stick to the same band size, but one size up in cup size? I'm really not sure! The bras you found sound like a steal, Kellen! There's a Burlington not far from me, maybe I'll check it out today.

I didn't think I was too worried about make-up until I look back at those pictures from the last two births! I look AWFUL. It's normal to look tired... you just had a baby for goodness sakes! But I look sickly and unhappy, which I wasn't. I just want to be able to look back at the photos and focus on the joy of the whole event, instead of not even wanting to look at them because of how hideous I was...lol.


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## helena

My son woke me at 1.30am. I settled him then bak o my bed. Had some awful period like pains, not sure it was diarrhea like pains or contractions!..laid on my left quietly for an hour with them coming and going and drifted off to sleep again. Other son woke me. I put him back to bed and it started agin. Did the same and eventually slept. Mildly achy today... Maybe it is linked o the gastro or norovirus I had the other day, and I had eaten pizza at8pm, but it concerned me for sure!..
It's the fact that I haven't had a number 2 since the gastro that makes me wonder if the two are linked...sorry tmi? But the pains were like period cramps and down into tops of legs and thighs ..so I'm not sure...I wondered if it was the shock of being shouted for by my son at 1.30 and jumping out of bed..maybe baby thought it was her time!?
On another note, wow was I thirsty yesterday eve!...

I am with you on wanting to look nice in photos wamommy. I want my pictures to live on after me with my daughter and I would rather look nice. I wear makeup every day, but its subtle so people probably don't notice. Though they would notice if I didn't :)


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## DragonflyWing

I measured myself today so I can shop for nursing bras, and I went up THREE cup sizes! Crazy, since I was already an H cup...I look like a comic book character lol! I also weighed myself, and I'm 4 pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight. Gotta love lactation! I'm pumping 7-10 oz every three hours at this point.


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## helena

Good work dragon!!!! Xxx

Tummy aches seem to have subsided since I have been moving about so maybe it was digestive.. Doh x


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## Jo_Bean

Hi all. Thought I would give you an update. 

I've developed Gestational Diabetes and also baby is rather large (7lbs yesterday) and a footling breech (the most unlikely and difficult to turn) so it looks like I may be having an elective c section around 38 weeks! We will finalise the delivery plan at the next scan on 8th January. 

I'm fine though, have to prick my finger 4 times a day to test for sugar levels and take Metformin and watch diet. But it's only for a little while longer and will be beat for baby that we will be able to manage the levels. 

Hope everyone else is doing ok! Not long now!!


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## helena

Oh Jo, maybe we will be around the same time - I am on the 1st. Gt my letter the ther day confirming I am to turn up at 10.30. So maybe my op will be early afternoon. My ticker says 28 days away!! Then we are 38+1.
Sorry to hear you are having complications though. This hasn't been the most stressfree pregnancy for you has it! 7lb already, healthy plump baby! Oh she will be so cuddly!

All the best xxx


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## SierraJourney

Jo--I'm sorry to hear about the GD! I'm glad you have such a positive attitude about it, though, and are taking measures to take care of you and baby! If you all keep having c sections, I'll be all on my own waiting for baby after February 1st or so! ;) 

helena---I find it so hard when there is digestive pain! It scares you because it feels like something is happening, so you're paying attention to every pain there is. lol Glad you're okay though!! 

Dragon--that is SUPER about the weight loss! I can't wait---I hope I have luck like that! Three cup sizes is INSANE! Oh my goodness--I don't know if I'll be able to hold myself up with that dramatic of a size difference! lol 

So here's a question for the ones who already have babies----does your breast size shrink after you feed each time? If so, then how does a bra EVER fit?


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## Jo_Bean

Helena! We might actually have them the same day then! How exciting knowing the time she will arrive!

Thanks hun. No it's not been straight forward at all! But I still wouldn't swap it for the world. It will be worth it :cloud9:
I'd rather a planned section than an emergency one as at least hubby can arrange to take some time off to help me out and we can plan stuff in. 

Oh Sierra! You have to make it to Valentines Day! One of us has to give birth on 14th!!


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## SierraJourney

Jo_Bean said:


> Oh Sierra! You have to make it to Valentines Day! One of us has to give birth on 14th!!

haha--I'll try my best as long as the rest of you keep posting pictures of your beautiful babies while I jealously wait for mine to come! ;)


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## Kellen

Jo - I am sorry to hear about your GD, but I am glad that you are taking it in stride. Your positive and sunny outlook are a real blessing. I'm not sure I would be so calm or happy if I found out about all the different complications.

Helena - It is way cool that you and Jo will be having your babies on the same day. I hope that your stomach settles down and behaves its self. 

Sierra - I'm in the same boat as you. We'll be waiting around here looking at adorable babies and wondering when ours are finally going to come. I am hoping she comes a week or so early, but I'm sort of counting on her being late. I guess we'll see...

Dragon - I'm glad that you seem to be having a decent time with pumping and getting your two adorable babies fed. That is awesome that you are actually 4lbs below pregnancy weight. I'm hoping that I'll be able to get back down once my little one arrives. I know breastfeeding helps, but it is nice to have the poster-child for it on here with us!


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## helena

Oh yes Jo, see if you can request the 1st ;)

My pains last night were so period like...I feel like a first time mum, since I have never had a proper contraction.

Boob wise they do shrink gradually over time. Pretty much back to pre pregnancy size. They do shrink slightly after each feed but only a bit. More a change in texture..like before the feed they are like rocks, then baby feeds and they deflate and go softer. Floppier. We do go through a range of bra sizes over the breastfeeding experience though it is true!..


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## wamommy

Jo, BOO for more complications!! Luckily your LO has you for a Mommy, and you're doing everything right for the both of you. It will be kind of nice to know which day she's coming to prepare, though! And as Helena said, she'll be beautifully fluffy and cuddly when she's born :D

Dragonfly, good job on the weight loss! Wow! I will definitely be trying to breastfeed again this round, and you've given me yet ANOTHER reason to do it! Wowzers.

Helena, I'm glad the period pains have gone away. I hope it's just digestive! I'm back to the first-trimester #2 blues, where I'm lucky to go every 2 or 3 days. It's very uncomfortable :( 

Kellen, how did your interview go?

Sierra, I may be around here on February 14th, who knows?? I secretly hope not! :haha: I already feel like my tummy is going to rip open! We should all guess which day babies will come and see who can get closest, lol. 

Ultimately, no matter how or when they all get here, I'm so thankful for each of our babies that enters the world, wet and squirming, full of innocence and promise. We're all almost there!!!


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## Kellen

Unfortunately the interview was not all that I had hoped for. The first issue was that it was a group interview, which I had not been informed about. Also I was the only one calling in so I did not have the benefit of knowing when people were either A) pausing or B) finished speaking. Secondly apparently I was supposed to have been sent a list of questions that we would be asked so that I could prepare... Never saw these questions so I had to answer off the top of my head.

I did email the person who had arranged the interview and explained my position (this was after I clung to DH and sobbed about how awful I had done). She apologized since she was supposed to have attached the questions for me in an email. She said that she would let the hiring board know that I had been placed at a disadvantage. I will hear back on Monday whether or not I advanced to round 2.


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## wamommy

Argh! I'm so sorry, Kellen! How frustrating :growlmad: Hopefully the board will take it all into consideration and realize that you WERE at a significant disadvantage! I've done only one phone interview in my life, but I remember it being really stressful. Not being able to read someone's body language makes it really tough. I'm sure you did better than you thought, though. Fingers crossed for good news! The Pacific Northwest is an amazing place to live, and it sounds like a great move for your whole family.


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## helena

Wamommy - I had exactly the same thought today - that my tummy may actually rip open soon! I think I used the same word about 20 minutes ago. I have no idea how I can grow for 28 more days..and that is cutting 13 days off the genuine target of due date..it's amazing. I can no longer cross my legs sitting at a table, I waddle like an overweight penguin in pain. Or groan like a 90 year old when I get up. Good lord, this s the most pregnant I have ever felt in any of my pregnancies!
My kids and husband have been off school / crèche / work for the last 2 weeks but go back next Monday. How I will cope with school runs etc again I have no idea..I must find a way to get mobile again, feel I have slowed down over the holidays! I need maternity leave now, such a pity it isn't heading my way!...

Sorry the interview wasn't all you hoped for kellen...fingers crossed all will work out x


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## Jo_Bean

Sorry about the interview Kellen. It might be better than you think though x fx'd!

I hear you on the waddling Helena! It's getting tough now that's for sure. I was thinking the same thing about Christmas. I think it was such a busy time before Christmas that I wore myself out, then slowed down when hubby was off work and then found it hard to start again. 

I can't even get comfy on the sofa now. I have to perch on the end or just lay down on the bed. I feel like a beached whale!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks for the boob-information helena! That helps! :)

Kellen--that stinks about the interview! How unfair! I hope regardless that you advance to round 2 and they send you the right information next time! We're all cheering for you!!

I hear you ladies about feeling slow and uncomfortable. I sat on the floor yesterday after making dinner, shirt up, staring at my belly. DH walks into the kitchen and asked what I was doing. "He doesn't stop stretching me!!" haha---it literally felt like baby was doing all he could to stretch me in total opposite directions at the same time. I'm getting to the point where I am sore, tired, and don't want to do anything but lie there---and even that is uncomfortable! lol But sooooo worth it! I asked DH yesterday what was worse--first or third trimester? He hasn't quite decided, but I think he's getting a bit tired of my complaining recently. ;) 

Carseat bases are installed in both cars now! And both cars have been cleaned out! Hooray!! :)

I'm guessing my lo will arrive a week early. . .that's my prediction (or wishful thinking!) lol So. . . February 7th! :)


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## wamommy

February 7th is a GREAT birthday, Sierra (a bit bias, since it's mine... :haha:)
You're ahead of me on the car situation!

I hear you on feeling huge! I haven't taken a picture since 27 weeks, but asked DH to take one today. As large as I feel, I don't want baby to come early and I don't have a SINGLE "big belly" shot. Here I am in all of my about-to-explode glory!
 



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## Jo_Bean

Wow! You look awesome Wamommy!!!


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## helena

Beautiful bump wamommy!!!


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## DragonflyWing

You look great!


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## helena

While we are showing off bump, this was me sometime last week..
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_BCBC88F7.jpg


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## Jo_Bean

Another totally gorgeous bump!!!


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## helena

Another 2 weeks and 3 days and our babies are considered full term. Can you believe it!??!
Woweeeeeeee!

Staring to feel mildly scared! Excited. Very. But scared :)


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## SierraJourney

wamommy and helena---you both look great!!! wamommy---that'll be great if I have baby on your birthday! (However, just a warning--I'm rubbish at predictions, so my guess is probably totally off! :haha: )


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## Jo_Bean

I'm petrified Helena!! :ignore:


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## SierraJourney

I'm scared about how I'm going to handle everything after baby is here. It's going to be a huge adjustment in and of itself, but then I have to work part-time from home starting about a week or so after baby comes (in order to get my entire pay during maternity leave). . .so I'm worried that I'm going to fail at work because taking care of baby will be my number one priority. :( And, there is no way we can make it without my income. :( I'm sure it will all work out, but that's what I'm most stressed about!

On a different note, I ended up calling my regular midwife today and she wants to do an ultrasound this week to make sure if baby is head-down or actually sideways like I think. I'm so relieved that she's looking into it! Wednesday I have the ultrasound (I've been warned it's nothing fancy--just a quick one to see his position, so I won't get any fancy pictures or anything), and will finally know for sure if baby moved head down or not! SO glad!!


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## wamommy

You look beautiful, Helena!! I can't believe you're under the 4 weeks mark until meeting your LO!

Sierra, it will be a huge adjustment, but once baby is here you won't be able to imagine it any other way. You'll make it work! Also, I'm SO glad your MW if giving you an ultrasound. It may be nothing fancy, but at least it will be piece of mind. I hope LO has flipped head down!


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## DragonflyWing

Great bump, helena!

I'm nervous about what it will be like when the babies come home, too. It's going to be a lot of work, and I'm worried that they won't come home before my maternity leave ends (which oddly enough is one day before their due date :haha:).


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## helena

Oh what happens after the end of maternity advance dragon?
Seems very unfair if you don't get any home time with them!!!....

Oh my, HOW tired and hungry I am this week! Ate so much for dinner last night. Then been snacking the equivalent of about 3 breakfasts this morning!...oink oink!


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon---I hope they come home before maternity leave ends! That'd be so hard! 

Helena---I'm the opposite---I could care less if I eat sometimes. . . but of course, I'm eating anyways. 

Breastfeeding class was last night. . .it was SUPER informative, but left me a bit stressed that it'd be soooo much work! However, I feel a bit better after talking with my sisters, who say it's more natural than those classes let on. But, boy, there is a lot to remember!: proper latch, color of poop, amount of urine, pumping instructions, pump care instructions, baby's schedule, etc! Oh my!!

DH went with me, and had a hard time keeping it together---MEN! They showed a video of a woman breastfeeding and complications with the breast, etc. . .then they showed a pamphlet on different types/colors of baby poop and it was all I could do to keep him seated in the class! He'd better get over the repulsion very quickly here! :rofl:


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## wamommy

:rofl: After the first few diaper blow-outs that run up baby's back and through ALL of his clothes, DH will no longer get grossed out by anything!!


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## SierraJourney

haha--that's my hope! lol. He pointed to all of the poopy pictures last night and said: "How about you change ALL of those, and I'll take care of every other type of diaper!" lol Maybe I should take him up on that and leave all of the blow-outs to him! :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Anyone else tired of blowing their nose? My goodness! My nose is SO stuffed up! I blow it whenever there is tissue near, and still it persists. . .I know it's pregnancy-related because I'm not sick (and this has been happening my ENTIRE pregnancy)---but I am SO ready to be over this nose-stuff! Does this clear up immediately after giving birth? Also, does discharge clear up right after birth? (That's also driving me crazy!) :lol:


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## DragonflyWing

helena said:


> Oh what happens after the end of maternity advance dragon?
> Seems very unfair if you don't get any home time with them!!!....
> 
> Oh my, HOW tired and hungry I am this week! Ate so much for dinner last night. Then been snacking the equivalent of about 3 breakfasts this morning!...oink oink!

I have to go back to work full time on Feb 13th, so DH will be on his own with the babies during the day. I will be devastated if I don't get any time at home with the babies :(.

I'm having a tough time with the baby blues. I cry over the littlest things, it hardly takes anything to set me off. Today I'm upset because I overdid it on s
Sunday and pulled something near my incision, so I'm in too much pain to go visit the babies today. I feel like a bad mother for missing a day. I thought DH could go visit without me, so the babies wouldn't be lonely, but he refuses to leave me home alone. He suggested having his brother come sit with me while he's gone, butthe house is a mess, I don't want to change out of my pajamas, and I really don't think I need a babysitter. So now DH is staying home and no one is visiting the babies :cry:


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon! How hard! I'd be so sad, too! Regardless of if anyone goes to see the babies today, they are in the best of hands. You can go first thing tomorrow to visit them. Is there anyone else you can send to visit babies today? Or a friend/sibling or someone you are more comfortable you can have sit with you while DH goes to visit babies? I know I would be fine with my pjs on and house a mess if one of my sisters came---is there family nearby you can call on? I'm so sorry! Sending you loads of hugs!! :hug:


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## wamommy

Oh, Dragon, I'm so sorry! The baby blues are tough enough when you have babies home... I can't imagine how hard it is in your situation! I hope you feel well tomorrow and can go see them, but Sierra is right. They are in the best of hands, and don't have a concept of time to know you've missed a day. Just give them extra tight snuggles tomorrow :hugs:

Sierra, I have the sniffles too! It's more like a constant clear drip than sniffles. SO annoying. I also have the discharge... yuck. After LO comes you'll have a super long, annoying period-like bleed, and then discharge should start going back to normal. It can take up to 6 weeks, but it WILL stop eventually... sigh. 

I packed my hospital bag tonight (finally!) and it made me start getting really nervous! I'm feeling oddly torn between excitement and anticipation, and complete fear that something will go wrong or I won't be able to handle labor this time. Ugh... How are you guys dealing with it?


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## DragonflyWing

Unfortunately, my whole family lives in NY, and I don't really have any close friends here...so the only options are DH's siblings. They're great, but I don't feel comfortable enough to sit around in my pajamas with them.


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## helena

Oh dragon, sending you big hugs.
Motherhood, in my experience, is so full of guilt. I feel guilty most days for something. For telling the kids off, for not taking them out enough, for not stimulating their brains enough, for not being a better mum...even when my DH says I am the best and I am always busy doing stuff with them. And it started in the hospital when I left my first with ten nurses for an hour or two so I could sleep. It was horrendous, I cried so much. Of course baby knew nothing about it, and my kids have a happy life and are growing excellently. It's just motherhood comes with a big bag of "could I do better?" Woes I think. 
You ARE doing a great job. you have a big job recovering and producing milk. You will be a fab mum and love those little darlings so so much. They can't ask for more. Take a break. Tell DH to pull himself together and go visit alone, that it would help you. Ad if he won't, try and not torture yourself.

Lts of love your way, these hormones will settle soon xxxxx


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## SierraJourney

Wow wamommy---good job on getting your bag packed! I'm still not packed and have decided that's this weekend's project! Hopefully I'll stick to it! ;) I'm not as nervous right now, but feel like I should be with this being my first one? 

Glad to know the discharge eventually stops! My goodness! 

Dragon--how are you feeling today?

helena---great advise---that helped me a lot, too!


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## SierraJourney

Ultrasound said he's head down!!! :) Hooray!!! I'm so relieved! And he's sooooo cute! He was sucking his bottom lip the entire ultrasound! He has a head full of hair (or so it looks), and has really big lips---pouty lips. :) I'm so in love. :cloud9:


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## wamommy

YAY :yipee: SOO glad he's head down, Sierra!! Phew, huh?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks!! I'm so relieved---now I feel that he can totally come! :)


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## helena

Great news Sierra! And yay for hairy babies and pouty lips. Bless him.
I have a doctors appointment tomorrow, hoping for a quick peak at my little lady but maybe it will just be a weigh-in.

Odd thing this morning, I FORGOT I had a bump! I leant over the bed to make it, stretching over to grab m husbands pjs and lading right on my bump on the bed. I totally forgot the bump was there and squished it a bit :( she s sill wriggly so I am not too worried, I am sure worst things could happen in a full elevator, but I felt so silly!

Haven't got my bag packed yet. Haven't bought half my stuff yet...looks like I won't get the chance until next week. Stay in there little girl!

My great hunger continues..I see my ticker says baby is gaining 30g a day...I was oping for more considering the amount I am eating!!
Happy 35 weeks girls xxxxx


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## Kellen

Happy 35 weeks everyone! It sounds like everyone has been super busy while I've been away at class.

Dragon - you are doing great for being a first time mom with early twins and recovering from major surgery. I think Helena had excellent advise for all of us.

Wamommy - the only packed bag I have is the one I'm living out of away from home this week. We did finally unbox the carseat and start putting it together Sunday night. Progress!

Sierra - that is great news that your little one is head down. I can totally relate to being 100% in love with my baby. I am looking forward to having her here.

So it is 4am where I am. I woke up with excruciating pain in my fingers. According to what I have read it is probably carpal tunnel. I've had it in my wrist since I played volleyball in high school, but this is the first time my fingers have been affected. It is super painful and not at all fun. Also I found out that I didn't get the job and wasn't even selected to move onto round two. I feel a bit bummed because I don't feel that I was given a fair chance, but life's not fair.


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## helena

Oh Kellen, sorry not the job. Next time! Xx


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## SierraJourney

helena--let us know how your dr appt goes! Be sure to tell him you squished your bump a bit. I'm sure lo is perfectly fine, but it might be worth mentioning. I know when I had my scan yesterday, they showed me the fluid around baby, and it wasn't as much as I expected. It's mostly baby in there, so I would mention it just to be careful!

Kellen---I'm so sorry that you didn't get the job! :( That's so disappointing, I'm sure. Keep your chin up and know that obviously it isn't meant to be right now. And look forward to your little girl! And get that carseat installed! ;)

My DH was making fun of me last night because I have the carseat base installed, AND I have a Brica mirror installed in the back so I can see what lo is doing once he comes. DH is SO embarassed by this mirror. . .lol. . .he says I put it in way too early and our vehicle looks like a mommy-mobile! :haha: I told him he'd better get used to it, and he told me I can't put a mirror in his new vehicle until February. :rofl: Men! I'm proud to look like a mommy already! :D


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so sorry about the job :( It seems that given the circumstances is would have been fair to give you another chance... FX'd for next time! 

Sierra, we don't have the car seat installed yet! It's been super cold here, and DH keeps saying "on the next nice day we'll do it." Ummmm..... it's winter in Seatlle.... good luck with that. I might go pull out the girls' seats and clear out the car myself today. I want to wipe them down, since they've been eating/drinking in those seats for 2 years!! Then I want to vacuum out the car before putting the 2 seats back in and finally installing the baby's. The problem is, the news just said that snow may move in this afternoon! I usually LOVE snow, but the idea of going into labor and being snowed in is absolutely terrifying. 

Helena, I can't believe we're 35 weeks! I hope your appointment goes well today! The countdown really has begun now, ladies. I'm SO excited (and nervous!) to meet this little one.


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## SierraJourney

My DH was saying the SAME thing to me about the carseat! So, I took out my vacuum, cleaned the car, and installed the seats MYSELF! :D Who needs a man's help!? lol I can't stand waiting until the last minute like my DH does. . .so I usually end up starting it myself, then he feels guilty and takes over. :)


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## wamommy

:rofl: I could have wrote that myself!!


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## SierraJourney

Good morning all. I'm at work with a terrible cold. I'm trying not to go home, because I want to save my days off for when lo comes. :( But, I feel so wretched. I googled medicines to take during pregnancy and such, and there is so much CONFLICTING advice on every medication that I've decided just to drink a lot of fluids and keep blowing my nose! It's miserable. :( 

It's been going around my office, and for the life of me, I don't understand why they don't tell all of those sick people to stay home (and ME to stay home!) But, no, my office offers money incentives at the end of the year if you don't use a sick day. . .so everyone who is sick comes to work, and it usually spread throughout most of the office each time. :( I'm keeping my door closed today, and only going out to pee and get more water! 

Anyone have any experience with fevers during pregnancy? I know I had one last night because I was sweating so much that I took off all of my clothes and all of the blankets, and I felt like I was boiling poor lo! :( He's wiggling away this morning (and all last night), so I'm sure he's fine, but it had me worried. :(


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## wamommy

How miserable, Sierra! I'm so sorry :( It seems like letting everyone come to work to infect each other would actually HURT productivity, but I understand coming to work sick if they offer money!! Argh...

I don't have any experience with fevers during pregnancy, but I think Tylenol is safe to help reduce a fever. I know ibuprofen is not. I also remember when DD#2 got a terrible fever and was too young to take medicine, they told me to bathe her in a 95 degree bath. It actually cools the body, without causing you to shiver, which can actually raise a fever. Maybe try that? I'm so sorry you're sick!! NO FUN


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## SierraJourney

Thank you!! I will try that!


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## Jo_Bean

How did the appointment go Helena?

My husband put the car seat in last night. Weirdly, he just decided to do it when it was raining and he even took his cup of coffee out with him. I think he's going through a bit of a panicking stage and just has to do something every now and again. 
He's worse than me though, he's so snappy but I'm sure it's because she's likely to be arriving a couple of weeks earlier than he had expected. 
I have one of those mirrors too but hubby refused to put it in the car!

Sorry to hear about the cold Sierra. Hot baths, steaming your sinuses over a bowl of hot water or drinking hot water with honey and lemon are the only things I found made any difference. 

We are due some snow here too! 3 weeks of it :shock: this is a big deal for us English :haha: Our whole country normally comes to a stand still :nope: not looking forward to that at all!

I have swollen feet :( but that's all that's new with me!


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## SierraJourney

Jo Bean that's so funny that DH refuses to put the mirror in the car! I don't see what the big deal is! Maybe they don't quite understand yet how HANDY it is! :)

Thanks for the advice--I'll try those too!! 

I'm sorry to hear your feet are swollen! I hear that is really uncomfortable! :(


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## Kim2012

Hello ladies

I see we have been busy with festives and hurray the came and went in a flash.My platelets have been all over the place up and down even with the iron supplements!Worst thing is I have seen 4 different OBs on different appointments and 2 of them said they wouldnt worry abot the levels of platelets and the other two said they would be concerned...aagrr. and I dont know which of those 4 will deliver me!!!

Pelvic pain is still killing me

Bottom line is I am confused about what type of delivery I would have .Cut the long story short C-Sec is scheduded for 4th of Feb!!!Not too long but hey I am one minute excited and the next minute nervous!!


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra - it's not too bad if I can raise them up and rest from time to time no did phone the MWs as I was a bit nervous about whether it was a sign of Pre-eclampsia but they just told me to rest and phone back if the swelling moved to my arms and hands etc. I have MW on Tuesday so they will check BP there. 

I'm currently relaxing in the bath as it's Friday night here and hubby is cooking tea :thumbup:


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## wamommy

Jo_Bean said:


> I'm currently relaxing in the bath as it's Friday night here and hubby is cooking tea :thumbup:


SO jealous!!! A bath sounds AMAZING right now. We're trying to save money and keeping the house at 65 degrees :( I'm always so freezing!! 

I just got a phone call that totally made my day, though. A woman from my church, who has become like an aunt or surrogate Mom to me, just called. She asked if she could throw me a baby shower!!!! I didn't expect to have one, and it was so incredibly sweet of her to offer it. She wants to make it open to all church ladies, so it should be awesome! I think she knows I don't have any family in the area, and felt (accurately) that I didn't think anyone really paid much attention to this pregnancy. Being my third, most of my family is like "oh ya, she's pregnant again," instead of being super excited about it. I suppose I'm just feeling thankful today. Let's just hope LO stays in until the 23rd!!


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## SierraJourney

That's awesome wamommy! How nice of her!!! YAY! You'll have to tell us ALL about it!! 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's house is 65 degrees! DH keeps ours at that temp during the day, and puts it down to 57 degrees at night! (We sleep better when it's cold). Obviously those won't be the temperatures once baby is here because we plan on keeping the house a lot warmer---but does anyone know what a good temp is to keep the house for newborns? I don't want it too warm, but obviously I don't want to freeze baby, either.


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## Jo_Bean

Over here they recommend 18-20 degrees Celsius. So I guess you would add 32 to that and it would make it 50-52 degrees fareinheight? I'm no good with conversions :haha:

That sounds low if you guys already think 65 is chilly! Maybe the guidelines Re different if your average temp is higher?

Or my math is wrong :rofl:

I have bought one of these and just had a look for a US version
https://www.amazon.com/Gro-Egg-Colo...ometer/dp/B002B55BN8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Looks like 65 is the average temp for babies. 

I liked that it changes colour based on if if is too hot or cold and so therefore, a lot easier to see at a glance how warm it is.


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## Kellen

I can jump on the swollen feet band wagon. Mine are so puffy by the end of the day that I told DH I feel like the Pillsbury Dough-boy. Thankfully the swelling goes down once I sit and put my feet up.

I officially passed the first portion of my class today. Everyone (even the instructors) kept saying: "This is the hardest test that you'll ever take! You need to study for at least 2 hours every night. You can't leave this thing until Thursday night, etc..." Well, I didn't study and I fell asleep at 8:30 last night. It was a good sleep too. So this morning I was the second person finished and passed with a 90%... yup, really hard test.

Now I am beginning to believe that my little girl thinks she is a reverse corset. Instead of making my rib cage smaller she believes it is her duty to expand it. She pushes so hard we were actually able to see the outline of her foot today. It was adorable and slightly creepy... There is actually another body living in mine. I affectionately referred to her as "My little parasite" which DH frowned at.


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## wamommy

Jo, that thermometer looks really useful! I have one on the wall where the crib goes, but it's the cheap old-fashioned kind that I need to turn the light on and then squint to read. This one looks so better!! I may be ordering one. I like the house about 70, but last winter we kept our house 70 day and night and got a $1200 power bill!! (2 months, but STILL) Sierra, I don't know how you can stand 57 at night! We go down to 60, and even that makes my face and hands freeze if they're outside of the covers...lol.

Kellen, well done on the test! Also, I know what you mean about it being a tad odd to think about a human growing inside you. The thumps and rolls are starting to get painful since there isn't much room left. I try to remember, as I wince in pain from some of the larger movements, that in a few short weeks I'll miss it terribly. There's something so powerful about a life living inside of us!


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## DragonflyWing

The doctors say the babies should be home within two weeks! I'm so excited, and scared, because we have so much to do to get ready. We don't have anything set up!


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> The doctors say the babies should be home within two weeks! I'm so excited, and scared, because we have so much to do to get ready. We don't have anything set up!

YAY!! :D I'm so glad! They must be doing extremely well. 2 weeks is plenty of time to set up, and even if you couldn't get it all done, all they really need is you!! :happydance:


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## Jo_Bean

You'll be fine Dragon :hugs: we'll all be coming to you for tips in a few weeks!!


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## helena

Hi all!
Dragon - thanks great news!
Serra - hope you are feeling better! Al I know is that paracetamol is fine in pregnancy, and that lowers fever. 

My baby's room will be between 16 and 19 at night I expect. That is 60 to 66. DH likes or bedroom to be 16 at night but I get far too hot and have to switch it off in the middle of the night. I would always have the room on the cooler side for baby too - being too hot is more dangerous for newborns than being too cold. 

My appointment on Friday went well. I think the doctor thinks I am a very eases patient and (wrongly) thinks I know what I am doing. I was in and out in ten minutes. He measured my bump for the first time and all is normal. Baby still head down, I have enough liquid around her and he doesn't think she will come early. When I mentioned I ad squashed my bump as I forgot it was there he laughed. No doubt it happens a lot. And she is protected and bendy in there. I see him once more on the 22 and that is it until we meet again a the operating table! Under 3 weeks now. 2 weeks and 5 days..can't believe it!!!
On Friday night / saturday morning my eldest decided to try and get up for the day at 4am....finally managing to wake the whole house at 5am. I was shattered. And scared. And so angry! Luckily last night he slept solid for 11 hours so that sans eased my panic slightly that it was all going wrong just in time for baby to arrive into a madhouse. 3 children under 5.. Not sure how that will work out...eeek!
I think that in actual fac my son was super excited about a birthday party he was going to on Saturday, but at 4 am this didn't make me any more understanding!

Finally bought my first pack of newborn nappies the other day. So small!


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## SierraJourney

JO--what a cool thermometer! I need to get something like that for our nursery! Thanks for the info on the correct temp! Looks like DH is going to have to get used to sweating a bit! ;)

Kellen---GREAT JOB on your test! That's fabulous!! 

Dragon--that is so exciting that babies can come home in two weeks!! Hooray! Don't worry about set-up---I'm sure you'll get the important things set up, and the rest can wait! How exciting!!!!

helena---thanks for the advice on how it is better for baby to be too cold than too hot. I keep feeling more sick and more sick. :( I was on the couch all day yesterday, and it looks like that is what I'll be doing again today. :( :(

I can't believe you have less than 3 weeks left!! That's crazy!! Oh soon our babies will be here!

On that note. . .time to nap again. . . :)


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## wamommy

How are you feeling, Sierra? I hope the weekend allowed you some time to relax and feel better :hugs:

Helena, I'm glad your Dr appointment went well. I can't believe you're down to less thatn 3 weeks to go now. That is insane! It seems like just yesterday we were all comparing the darkness of our bpf lines, and now here we are! I'm SO excited to hear about how it goes, and for you to meet your LO.

No real news here! We still haven't installed the car seat :dohh: At least my hospital bag is packed now, and we set something up for who will help us with the girls while I'm in labor. 

I feel like such a whiner lately. Anyone else? I'm so uncomfortable that all I do is moan and groan around my house, lol. I'm certainly past the "cute pregnant" phase, and into the "giantly pregnant" phase!


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## Kellen

I too feel like a major complainer recently. I cried the other night because my feet were swollen and I've gained more weight than I wanted too. However, our midwife today looked at me and said: "I see by your chart you are gaining weight, but where are you hiding it?" That made me feel marginally better. My BP is good 110/60 and baby is measuring a week ahead. They did the GBS test today, which felt rather invasive. I'm sure by the time labor is done I'll be totally okay with random people poking around in my vagina... but at this time I cannot imagine it.

My mom is going to come out and stay with us the week before our due date and up until the baby is about 2 weeks old. She will basically just be helping with cleaning and cooking and giving us breaks when we get super frazzled. I'm glad. I get along really well with my mom and she is my best friend. 

Church gave us a nice baby shower last night. However, I was so exhausted by the end (it followed DH's baptism) that I can hardly remember what we were given. We did stop and get some Dreft today so that I can begin washing her clothes and pack the bags for the hospital.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I am feeling a bit better, but still under the weather. I'm at work today again. . blowing my nose and trying to keep myself in my office. The weekend rest helped a LOT, but I can definitely use more! :) 

Kellen--yay showers! I love getting new things!!

I'm definitely feeling like a complainer, too---especially since I've been sick. I keep complaining to DH that I am trying to heal my body AND build his son! :haha:


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## wamommy

:rofl: The vagina comment made me laugh, Kellen. Believe it or not, once you're in labor they could literally bring Brad Pitt in to check your vagina and you wouldn't blink. All inhibitions go out the window, and your focus just becomes baby and managing the contractions. I don't know if it's different with an epidural, but unmedicated I had to go to a special place where NOTHING could embarrass me! I watched a reality show last night where the lady was about to start pushing and was texting on her cell phone! I thought to myself, "maybe I should give this epidural thing a try!" It seemed so much calmer than my births. We'll see how it goes, lol.

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better, Sierra. It really seems to be going around. Milk it for all it's worth, and have others wait on you hand and foot!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--that's hilarious! In childbirth classes, they have us "practice" contractions, but clipping a clothes-pin on our ear for the entire "contraction" and breathing through it. I can't even imagine texting with the clothes-pin on my ear---not alone during a real contraction! lol. I'm going to try for unmedicated, so we'll see what I say AFTER labor. :) The whole labor thing freaks DH out---he keeps telling me that he is SO glad it's me and not him! :rofl: 

I'm definitely milking the sickness--and DH was great this weekend. . .getting me orange juice and movies and tissues and just cuddling me on the couch all weekend. :)


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## SierraJourney

Oh, I forgot to tell you guys---I had my FIRST accidental pee-myself SEVERAL times this weekend. YIKES! I've been sneezing like crazy, and EVERY time I sneeze, I wee a little! Well, I told DH this, but one time when I was on the couch, it was just UNSTOPPABLE and I peed a LOT! It soaked my pj bottoms and went through a blanket! I was so embarrassed, I didn't tell DH about the blanket---just told him I was throwing it in the wash to get the sickness off of it! ha!


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## Kellen

We are going for an unmedicated birth as well. Actually, a waterbirth. I know by the time the contractions hit and I'm fully immersed in labor I won't care, but right now I do! lol


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## wamommy

:rofl: Haha Sierra! That's hilarious! I haven't had a wee incident yet (knock on wood!) but I've come close. 

I didn't know you were both aiming for unmedicated! If you have any questions, let me know. I'm hoping for a third unmedicated birth, but just like the other ones, I'm totally aware that things can change SO fast, and I'm open to medication if it's what's best for me and/or baby. I'm certainly not one to preach "natural birth is the ONLY way!!" since that isn't how I feel. Every birth and every situation is so different, however baby comes into the world is a complete miracle. Anyhow, thinking about it is starting to make ME nervous! LOL

Tonight The Bachelor is on! I'm not a huge reality tv fan, and this is my ONE guilty pleasure. Most of the time our TV is busy with kid's shows or movies in the evening. Everyone knows that Monday night is Mom's night though :haha:


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## helena

wow our birth stories will be so different, unmedicatd v scheduled surgical procedure!

wamommy, didnt your midwofe say she thought you would have your bambino by 36 weeks? you have 2 days!!!!!!!

BH seem to be stepping up a pace here.

Kellen, so lovely you said your mum is your best friend!

sierra, welcome to the pee pants gang! i am so ready to not be pregnant and for my underwear to not have a faint whiff of public toilets....urgh, so gross.

talking of undies, i am about to make an appointment for my pre op waxing. they like you to be hair free down there or they shave you. i dont want them shaving as i find th hair growing back so uncomfy. and as i will have a sore scar anyway i dont want itchy hairs growing through it too. so waxing it is. not sure how i will handle that pain....oh god, hope i dont pee! hahahahahahaha!!
2 weeks and 3 days to go until i met her. yikes....
just realisd i need to get all the documnts together for registering her birth..the hospital help us with the paperwork if i have everything ready. its a bit of a pain..not sure if it is because we are a special cas...British, living in France but birthing and registering baby in Switzerland. i need to reorder mine and DHs birth certificates..what a pain! theywant thm issued in the last 6 months you see..crazy.
plus passports for the whole family, marriage certifiate and more...urgh.


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## SierraJourney

Yeah, I hardly ever take any medications in normal life, so it seems natural to me to go unmedicated. Of course I'm keeping an open mind, and if I have to take something, I definitely will, but my aim is unmedicated! That's awesome that you've had all of yours unmedicated!! I'll let you know if I have any questions pop up! Thank you!


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## SierraJourney

:rofl: helena! Glad I'm not alone!! I've never had a professional wax job before---you'll have to let us know how you survive! I wouldn't blame you if you did pee---how painful! :lol:


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## Kellen

Helena - Yes, please let us know how it goes. It does sound rather painful... and it sounds like it is a pain to get all that paperwork together. I can hardly keep my office paperwork in order as well as the bills at home... Good luck!

Sierra - I really hate taking medicine in general. I'm more into homeopathic medicines and allowing my body to dictate what it needs. With that being said I am not 100% against having medicine or pain relief during labor. DH and I have spoken at great lengths as to when and if I need to switch from the non-medicated to medicated route at the hospital. Thankfully our midwife is solidly on our side and has promised to help us make tough decisions. I'm also glad that my mom will be around because she knows what my pain threshold is and can encourage me to tough it out.

DH wants his mom to be there too. My MIL is a very nice woman. However, DH wants us to pay for her plane ticket. I feel terrible, but my mom is paying for her own way. I know they are in way different financial places, but it still doesn't seem very sporting. And if my MIL ends up being at our birth I am almost 100% positive that I'll stick it out without medicine because she has told me that I won't be able to handle the pain and I'll be asking for an epidural at 5cm. I'm a tad bit stubborn.


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## SierraJourney

That's hard, Kellen. It's the opposite in our family---DH's mother is in a good financial place, whereas my mother isn't. We tend to help my mother out whenever we can, and I really appreciate that DH is okay with that. (Granted, sometimes he isn't, but most of the time, he wants to help her out.) It's hard when the extended family's needs are different. But, about her being at the birth---if it's going to make you change your mind on things or do things that you normally wouldn't do if she wasn't there, I would say that she shouldn't be allowed at the birth. It's YOUR body, YOUR pain----your mother obviously is closer to you, and therefore you are more apt to want her there. . .your MIL shouldn't force her way in---and your DH should support that. Maybe pay for her plane ticket, if you don't mind, but tell her she can't come in until after baby is born. It's your choice---no matter what---do don't feel like you HAVE to have her in the room with you!


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## Kellen

I feel like such a complainer on here sometimes. But I know for a fact that I would definitely not allow my MIL in the room with me while I was in labor. 

We have helped them out financially several times and have been promised repayment (which I never expected to receive and lo and behold have never seen... just more requests for money). Right now things are tight financially for DH and I because we are trying to save for the baby and get all of his paperwork completed for his career change (this includes additional dr appt for him, use of extra gas, and payment for the actual document he needs). We manage, but it is tight. I really don't see how we can afford a $300 plane ticket right now.

Then last night my FIL calls DH to ask if we have decided on a middle name yet. Apparently my MIL thinks that I am having DH perpetrate a conspiracy and that we have chosen a name but are refusing to tell anyone. The truth is I hate all the names DH has suggested. Now he is saying: 'If you don't like any of my names I won't suggest anymore and you just name her whatever it is you want.' I find this rather passive aggressive and tried to explain that I wanted his input (because now he is refusing to even comment on any names I suggest). I have tried to be gentle when expressing my dislike over some of his names. Last night I even told him I'd be willing to compromise with a combo name, but he refused to talk about it. Grrrr...

Am I being completely unreasonable? I know the man loved his grandmother but we are not saddling our daughter with the middle name of Melva (apologies to anyone who likes the name Melva or Thelma or Elva or Kaitlyn or Kristy).


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## wamommy

helena said:


> wamommy, didnt your midwofe say she thought you would have your bambino by 36 weeks? you have 2 days!!!!!!!

Luckily she just said to be ready by 36 weeks, since she wouldn't put it past the baby to come this early! I should know more tomorrow, since I have my first internal exam. I know it doesn't mean much (I walked around 4 cm dilated for 2 weeks with my girls) but it will give me an indication how fast things will go once it starts! I would love to hold this LO in until 37 weeks, but lately I've been having this terrible fear about going OVER due... weird. I guess I'm on his time, not mine...lol.

I can't believe you're just over 2 weeks away, Helena!!!! how exciting :D Are you prepared? 

Kellen, I agree with Sierra that if you would be uncomfortable at all with you MIL there during labor then you shouldn't do it. Maybe offer to split her plane ticket, and have her come after baby is born? That's such a tough situation, since so many feelings are involved, but ultimately you need to do what you need to do, and hopefully DH will understand.

As for names, we're in the same boat. I get the same passive aggressive "just name him whatever you want, then..." whenever I press DH to help me with ideas. He hates my choices, but doesn't offer any real alternatives? I would be SO happy if he just sat down and made a REAL list of 10 names that he would like. I really don't want to leave the hospital with a nameless baby again!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Thankfully we have agreed on a first name, it is just the middle name that is missing. I was very ticked at my FIL. He called just to remind DH that we are having a baby soon and should pick out a middle name. Really?! I didn't realize that not being able to get out of bed easily or see my feet meant that I was going to have a baby soon...
Hopefully our DH's will see some common sense and actually be helpful. I feel for my DH and I know he wants his mom there for his first baby. The thing is I don't think she really cares. It is all his idea, but she has three grandkids at home she is raising.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---hearing all of that about how you help them out financially so often, I don't think I would pay for the ticket. I think if they want to come see the baby, they will make a way. And your DH should see that. 

I can't imagine the struggle you're having with both of your DH's! That sounds so frustrating! Luckily for me, I would send my DH tons of names, and he would decline or accept them, then we picked our favorites---and he would send me some, too (usually emailing back and forth during work! :) We ultimately settled on a name that I suggested, that he liked right away. Then, for the middle name, he requested that we use his deceased father's middle name---so how could I refuse? (I also happen to really like that middle name too!)

I'm with you on Melva, Kellen! ;) 

If I were you, I would make a long list of names you like and put it in your hospital bag. If you haven't decided on a name once you go into labor, once your baby is born, pull out the list and hand it to DH and let him "pick" (since you already like all of the names on the list). By that point, your DH will be so enthralled with the baby, hopefully he'll agree on something on your list. :)


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## Kellen

SierraJourney said:


> If I were you, I would make a long list of names you like and put it in your hospital bag. If you haven't decided on a name once you go into labor, once your baby is born, pull out the list and hand it to DH and let him "pick" (since you already like all of the names on the list). By that point, your DH will be so enthralled with the baby, hopefully he'll agree on something on your list. :)

That is brilliant! I think I will do that. He doesn't mind my names, but they aren't what he suggested and I want him to have a say in it too. As I told him last night: "Well, she's just as much your daughter as she is mine."

Now back to writing a 20+page lesson plan over Critical Incident Stress Management. Hopefully I won't have to use any of it while in labor! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Ooo. . that doesn't sound fun. lol. . .

Anyone else's lo doing weird painful things in your belly? I can't describe it, but I'll be walking and all of the sudden, I get like quick "pinches" on either side of my lower belly---and lo will be moving like crazy. I can't figure out what he is doing, but I gasp or yelp everytime! DH has started laughing at me each time now, saying "What is he doing now?" lol. . .but, dang, it HURTS!


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> If I were you, I would make a long list of names you like and put it in your hospital bag. If you haven't decided on a name once you go into labor, once your baby is born, pull out the list and hand it to DH and let him "pick" (since you already like all of the names on the list). By that point, your DH will be so enthralled with the baby, hopefully he'll agree on something on your list. :)

I may try that, although last time it didn't work. DH was dead set on 2 names, and wouldn't budge or consider any of mine. He was SO stubborn, that DD#2 didn't have a name until she was a week old. The hospital called me and told me I had to pick a name, so I picked one of his :( I felt so manipulated and stuck. I really don't want to feel that again! I've probably suggested 40 names that I would honestly be happy with naming LO, and DH has found fault with all of them... Sorry, this is a touchy subject for me! I've lost a lot of sleep lately about it, and begun to get really angry with DH! It would be one thing if he were making lists too, but he isn't. He's just vetoing everything I suggest with no alternatives... ugh!!! :grr:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy, in that case, I would tell him that since he picked DD#2's name, he has to pick something off of your list! That's ridiculous!!


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## helena

no way would i want my MIL at the birth. not because i dont like her, but because its my body and i want privacy. there are parts of me my inlaws dont need to se. it is different for a woman with her own mum. thats mummy who provides comfort and support. a mummy hug is the best when you are hurting...but a mother in law hug? no thanks. i couldnt stand it.

wamommy no i am not prepared. am finally getting organised but it is taking time since i only get 2 mornings a week when both my kids are at school and nursery. but little by little i am thinking about gethering all the bits for my bag and buying the necessary things. it does feel a bit like i have left it all a bit late and i am struggling to get motivated to fit it all in.. still need to finish her room. her cot is full of car seat and other stuff. i need to sort it all out and find everything a home. i also need to rehome a load of my sons toys which are taking over the room. this weekend i shall get on with it.
i also want to order a support belt for after my operation. i havent had one before but really want one this time, i feel it will help me be mobile faster, which is needed. i will order this soon. i must i must....making a mental note..
i just went and ordered our birth cerificates. 46 pounds for both mine and my husbands, fast delivery..what a lot of money. its so annoying i have had to reorder them four times now, once for registering each child and once for when we got married. why the copies have to be issued in the last 6 months i have no idea...surely a birth certificate is valid whenever it was printed...

Kellen, what about not having a middle name? they are kind of pointless. my mum and my mothr in law dont have middle names and have survived life just fine! though i do quite like Melva...i would be tempted to go with it to make DH happy...makes me think of peach Melba.
we are probably going to have my middle nam. its sort of pointless but goes with the first name. but maybe we will rethink it yet. first name is still the name chosen by our 4 year old from a Disney film!

booo to your husband wamommy!


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## SierraJourney

I agree with helena---no way would I want my MIL to see me naked! goodness! 

I am so excited to find out everyones' names once the babies are born!! It's going to be so fun!!

Speaking of babies being born, how are you and the twins doing, Dragon?


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## helena

i kep thinkng over the MIL at birth situation. i would ask DH if he would be comfortable with his FIL seeing, literally, the ins and outs of his tackle...if his FIL would be a comfort to him when he was passing a grapefruit out of his winkie..


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## Kellen

helena said:


> i kep thinkng over the MIL at birth situation. i would ask DH if he would be comfortable with his FIL seeing, literally, the ins and outs of his tackle...if his FIL would be a comfort to him when he was passing a grapefruit out of his winkie..

My DH has no shame and would proudly become a nudist if I let him. :dohh:

But I agree that there is no hug like a mommy hug. My mom already has strict orders that no one but DH is to be in the room while I'm in labor and no non-family visitors until at least 8 hours after birth (depending on the time of day she is born).

I have honestly thought about completely doing away with the middle name, especially since I am feeling pressured. Apparently DH's side of the family doesn't realize that when they push me towards their view I will become obstinate and do the exact opposite. 

In other news: does anyone else really hate wearing shoes right now? I've been drinking water like crazy and trying to keep my feet up but they keep swelling. Shoes and socks are evil!


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## SierraJourney

I literally keep my feet up all day at work (I have a box underneath my desk, and as soon as I sit down in the morning, I take off my shoes and put my feet up). Once I get home, I'll do a bit around the house in the evening, but when I'm on the couch watching tv or something, I always have my feet up on the couch with me. So far, (knock on wood), it's kept me from getting any foot/leg pain. Is there something you can put your feet on at work to keep them elevated? And any chance you can slip your shoes off at work?


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## wamommy

Kellen said:


> In other news: does anyone else really hate wearing shoes right now? I've been drinking water like crazy and trying to keep my feet up but they keep swelling. Shoes and socks are evil!

I haven't had bad foot swelling (yet) but I do have a yucky indent when I take my socks off. 



helena said:


> i kep thinkng over the MIL at birth situation. i would ask DH if he would be comfortable with his FIL seeing, literally, the ins and outs of his tackle...if his FIL would be a comfort to him when he was passing a grapefruit out of his winkie..

:rofl: !!! What a funny mental picture!!


How are everyone's backs? I woke up in the middle of the night last night in so much pain that I did the cat stretch on the floor next to my bed for 20 minutes before climbing back in bed! I've yet to find anything that really helps, except a heating pad right on my lower back for an hour or so. I still feel guilty about that, like I'm cooking the baby!


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## Jo_Bean

I can't think of anything more stressful for me personally than having anyone but hubby in the hospital with me! I love mine and his family and we are both really close to them but I need some space and would absolutely hate it if anyone else were in there! Because of the GD, they will keep baby and I in for 24 hours after birth, I've set the scene and told our families that I am looking forward to that time alone with Baby and hubby and that we will invite them over when we are ready. 

I have to set boundaries as if I gave my parents a chance, they'd be there for the duration :shock: that would just make me stressed out so I'm setting expectations up front. 

Luckily both sets of parents are only 20 minutes away so I can have them over to help out and visit for an hour or so (or however long I need) then send them home again. I think those of you having people to stay are very brave! I might feel differently when she's here but I am looking forward to spending the 2 weeks that hubby has off, just the three of us and will be hinting to every visitor to go after about 30 mins :rofl:

My husband didn't want a middle name but as he ended up sort of choosing the first name, she is having a middle name and I've chosen it. 

I think with the names, you will end up agreeing eventually, whenever that is, if you can't agree at the moment then maybe it's just that you haven't found "the one"

I'd be stubborn and obtuse about the name too though, if the in laws were getting involved :haha: I get a bit annoyed at how much of a 'right' grandparents seem to think they have to children. I know it varies and everyone is different but I do get annoyed that they are so entitled some times. 

The best bit for me about picking our name was when we got to tell our families that they weren't going to know the name until she's here because we don't want their opinion! It was so satisfying!

I realise that I've made myself sound very anti family there :haha: but seriously, this is a big thing for me because I am that person who ties herself in knots to make everyone else happy and worries about their feelings so much, that being strict and looking out for myself and my husband and what we want has been quite liberating for me! I think I am a slightly new woman!


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## SierraJourney

My back has just started to hurt lately. . .in the middle of my back on the right side. A pillow under my belly has helped, but still isn't the most comfortable. . . I'm so sweaty and hot at night that I couldn't stand a heating pad! Yikes!


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## SierraJourney

Jo---that is lovely! Good for you!! I'm slightly similar---so understand completely! :)


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## wamommy

Jo, I think it's great that you're setting boundaries and protecting your bonding time with LO :D Your Mommy instincts are already setting in, it seems. It's our job to be protective! I don't have the same concerns, really, since DH's parents have both passed away, my Dad is in San Diego (and couldn't be bothered to come see LO if he were next door) and my Mom is super, super busy with work... So I think my only visitors will be church people! Luckily, they are all so incredibly tactful, I don't think they'd stay longer than 30 minutes or so, like you said Jo. All in all, it's such an amazing time that you only get ONCE, so ultimately doing what you feel is best for your family is the best thing.


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls, I didn't want to come across as a family hater, but they have the rest of their lives to spend with her and we only get one first time and with the feet problems and diabetes and now c section, I just feel like I might get overwhelmed. I am lucky that they will all be there in a shot if I ask them, but historically I would have told everyone they could be there and then regretted it, so I'm trying to be strong.


I have had a bad back and swollen feet too! I think it's at this point we all start wishing our little ones would arrive very soon! Not at all glamorous really is it!?


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## SierraJourney

Oh I'm definitely wishing my lo would arrive soon! In fact, I was just googling the chances of having him early. . . which apparently aren't very high. . .so I've resigned myself to another 4 weeks or so of uncomfortableness. . .


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## DragonflyWing

SierraJourney said:


> Speaking of babies being born, how are you and the twins doing, Dragon?

The babies are coming home TODAY! They passed their carseat test last night, and that was the last hurdle. The doctor called this morning and said we can come get them anytime. We don't even have the pack n play set up! Haha they have nowhere to sleep! Guess what we'll be doing today :D

I'm terrified I'm never going to sleep again, but so happy that they're coming home.


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## SierraJourney

DRAGON!! That is SOOOOO INCREDIBLE! I'm so happy for you!!! I'm sure it's pure chaos at your house right now, but I'm so thankful to hear that they are coming home today!! Once things settle down, you definitely need to send us some updated pictures. Congratulations!!


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## Kellen

Dragon that is awesome! I am so thrilled for you! Congrats, congrats, congrats!!! That is wonderful that the twins passed their first big test and get the best grade ever... home. I too am looking forward to some updated photos. Have fun cuddling and loving on your little ones.


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## wamommy

:yipee: :yipee: :yipee: SOO thrilled for you, Dragon!! Congrats on the little ones going home! Hurray for chaos and sleeplessness!! At least you get to have your babies with you :D So awesome.


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## helena

Excellent news dragon!!!!!! Hope the little sweethearts allow mummy some bnb time!

Jo - love your attitude regarding visitors. Wish I had been more like that. 
Half hour visits sound like a dream, we have days and days of house guests if we are not careful. Urgh.

Wamommy - back ache in the night......early labour sign?!!?..........I am sure your little cherub will be here before mine!


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## Jo_Bean

Dragon - that's fantastic news! So happy for you that your little family will all be together and you can properly start your lives together!! You will be fine. You'll be an absolute pro and giving us tips soon!

Thanks for the support about my visitor plan girls! It actually helps me feel stronger about getting people to visit on my terms. I think it will be easier when hubby is here to help but I want him to myself for 2 weeks. We'll have to see. 

Helena - how long do they keep you in hospital after a c section? We are doing our delivery plan on Friday and I'm not sure what to expect about how long they will monitor me for. I know they will want to keep baby in for 24 hours to monitor her sugar but not sure about c section recovery.


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## DragonflyWing

Well, the babies are home! It's been about 7 hours, and a total adventure already! About an hour after we got home, Gunnar peed all over his clothes, his sister's blanket, and the couch lol...several lessons learned there, and almost a whole load of laundry right off the bat. Right now it's 4am, and I'm trying to get Lilja to eat, but she'd rather sleep. I'm all worried because she has only eaten 15ml since 8pm. She's not acting hungry so I'm not going to panic. DH has a terrible headache, so I'm trying to let him sleep dot a while, but I don't think sleep is in the cards for me anytime soon.

Here's a photo of my adorable little baby burritos napping together for the first time :)
 



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## Jo_Bean

Oh look how gorgeous they are!!


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## helena

Oh look a the,!! Lovely!


Jo, with my previous 2 sections they have kept me in for 4 nights after the op. but it may be shorter in the uk? I defiinately needed two nights I think. May try and escape earlier this time, but will see,


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks Helena. That's a long time!!! We're you just dying to get home?

I'm hoping it isn't that long. Fx'd!


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## helena

Jo_Bean said:


> Thanks Helena. That's a long time!!! We're you just dying to get home?
> 
> I'm hoping it isn't that long. Fx'd!

Yes I was by 2 or 3 nights. I didn't get out of bed and walk until after the first night though, so would say two nights is a must. 3 probably best. I think they like to keep us longer to check baby is starting to gain weight. Which I guess is a good thing!
I am super duper lucky enough to have a private room, which is fab. But it's so boring and quiet. Its a tiny private hospital so service is amazing, food fab, midwives and lactation specialists all on hand, but its so quiet. I hardly saw any other mums last time. I felt isolated. And its all air con and the windows didnt even open, i hate that.
I am determined to wander about more this time and find myself some other new mums.


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## helena

By the way Jo, I am ordering one of these today: https://csectionrecoverykit.com/ 
Just the belt and bikini strap, I think it will help me get mobile easier. It's pricey but I think it could really help. Some hospitals have things like this, mine doesn't. It's apparently good to wear it right from after the op, to help with movement and recovery.

Dd you get any confirmation of a date yet?


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## Jo_Bean

Ooh thanks Helena! That's really good. 

We find out on Friday (hopefully) so I can plan more then and organise myself a bit better. Unless the baby has moved and they change their minds :dohh:

The hospital sounds nice but I would be the same. I would want to wander about and not feel trapped. 

I'm really getting used to the idea of a c section but I do worry that they will change their mind.


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## helena

Oh fingers crossed for Friday. I am so happy itch my c section option. Really. I am. By of a wuss. Nd it being scheduled is so very practical for me. I can make appointments for things is need before I go in (waxing and haircut, god knows when i will next have time for a haircut with 3 kids under 5...)have grandparents fly out for my other kids. It suits me. I love knowing what day I will meet her. Hoping you get what you want.

I will be definately taking my iPad to the hospital and there is wifi so I will be on bnb all the time! Just got to work out how to view iplayer so I can keep u with emmerdale! Lol.


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## Jo_Bean

Those are all the things I am hoping I will get to plan in. 

The MW told me yesterday that even if we do decide on a c section, they will scan me just before doing it and if baby has moved, they'll send me home!!!

I can't believe that, it's so unfair! I'm going to kick off of Friday if they confirm that. I will tell them that this pregnancy has been stressful enough and I can't live like that! I hate not having a plan!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---SO SO cute! I hope you get some sleep and Lilja has started eating more! That's got to be stressful!

Jo--I would be with you--I wouldn't want them changing the plan on me at the last minute---that would drive me crazy!

wamommy--let us know how your appointment goes today! My next one is tomorrow. . .


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## helena

Oh let us know about your appointments. Good luck ladies.

I am with you Jo, tell them it makes you stressed out. Surely they want to avoid stress!


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## wamommy

Thanks, Sierra :D I leave for my appointment in an hour, and will be sure to update you when I get back!

Dragon, SO cute! I'm so glad they're finally home! Hopefully they will work out a little bit of a schedule so that you can rest!

Jo, why would they change their mind? If she moves will they want you to try vaginal? Argh! That would be so tough after preparing yourself mentally for things to go one way... I'm so glad Helena can prep you for C-section, and that she has such a positive outlook on it! I'm totally clueless about that, and if I end up with a section I won't know what to do with myself! Luckily, I'm only 15 minutes from the hospital, so DH can always run home for anything I didn't pack for a longer stay.

Off to shower and go. Here's to hoping I haven't gained more than 3 pounds this WEEK.... lol.


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## SierraJourney

I love appointments---any chance to hear baby's heartbeat and update me on him, and I love it! :) Can't wait to hear how yours goes! Last appointment, I was one pound from gaining 30 pounds total. . .so I'm sure I'll be disappointed at my weight tomorrow. lol Ah well. . this little guy is SO worth it! ;)


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls xx

Wamommy - if she has moved out of the breech position they will induce me as I'm not allowed to go full term because of the GD. So I assume (based on the horrible MW yesterday) that if baby has moved and I'm on the operating table, they could change their mind and induce me :shrug: :shock: it's really starting to panic me now. I just want to know because both could mean a longer stay in hospital than I had planned but both for very different reasons!

It is great that Helena has been through it already though! I've been looking at what to pack and there is more to think of with a c section!


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## SierraJourney

Jo--that's just sooooo hard! I can't believe that! I hope you can say something and avoid that situation!


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## wamommy

Back from the Doctor! It was a confusing appointment. I had my iron checked again, and was slightly low still... sigh. GroupB strep swab, fun fun!! Then she checked for dilation. Apparently I'm only 1cm dilated and 50% effaced, which was a little surprising, but she explained to me why. Baby is back to back, which is causing my horrible back pain. She recommended that I spend some time on my hands and knees each day swaying, trying to get baby to turn around. Second, she said my cervix is posterior. I had no idea a cervix could have different positions. Apparently they can be in front of baby's head, right on top of baby's head, or behind baby's head. Mine is way behind. She says this is ok, but that what usually happens is that a woman with a posterior cervix has a slow early phase of labor, but once they hit 5 cm the cervix pops down and the baby comes very quickly.

All in all I left very confused! I'm not as progressed as I would have guessed, but if I progress more I could suddenly be in fast and furious labor? Or what if the cervix refuses to move? I wish I'd asked more questions. Ah well... I have an appointment next Wednesday and can find out more then. I did gain 3 pounds in the past 2 weeks :blush: I'm almost to 30 pounds too, Sierra! I think I'm up to about 29.something gained. 

I can't wait to hear about everyone else's appointments. I can't believe how close we're getting, and how real this all is!


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## Jo_Bean

I think I will really exaggerate how stressed it will make me and just start crying about everything if they say that's a possibility! I've not really used my pregnancy to it's full advantage so far :haha: so I will do my best to get what I want! :smug:


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## Jo_Bean

Oh Wamommy! I would be confused too! Maybe write down te questions that spring to mind now so you don't forget? If you are anything like me at the moment, you'll forget your own name from time to time!!

You can always ring them to check things too x


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---that is really confusing! I would ring them and ask your questions. . .or if you aren't that worried about it, definitely write down your questions for next week! 

Glad to know I'm not alone on nearing 30 pounds! 

I'm kind of jealous that you got your cervix checked already---I don't think my office does that until 39 weeks! So, I could be walking around ready to go, and have no clue! :( It's a midwife office, though, so they try to not be too invasive until necessary. . .natural is the way they like to leave things if they can . . . But still . . .how exciting it must be to at least know that you are dilated/effaced a bit! 

Jo---definitely use pregnancy to your advantage! Tears go a LONG way sometimes! :D

My office just started a pool---people have to pay a dollar and they can guess the weight of the baby. If they are the closest to baby's birth weight, then they get to either keep all of the money or donate it to DH & I for diapers. :) Everyone keeps coming into my office to "measure" my belly to see if they can get a good guess! :haha: It's very entertaining! So far I've heard: 7lbs 8oz, 8lbs 4oz, 8lbs 1oz, 7lbs 4 oz, and 7lbs even. I would love it if people would guess 6lbs or so. . .lol. . .those 8lb numbers scare me a bit! ;)


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## helena

By last Friday I was up 30.8 pounds. I win! ;)


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## wamommy

helena said:


> By last Friday I was up 30.8 pounds. I win! ;)

:rofl: I don't know, after the peanut brittle DH made tonight, I might catch up!! :haha:


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## Jo_Bean

Oooooh peanut brittle!! I could murder a cake or cookie or something really sweet right now!

Only a few more weeks and I can eat sugar again!


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## helena

That's so tough on you Jo. I not know how u are coping. My sweet cravings are massive just now, I guess it goes with being so tired.

Happy 36 weeks!


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## SierraJourney

I don't know helena, I'm guessing I'll be higher than that after today's weigh at my appointment---I'll have to let you know! ;)


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## helena

According to one website we should have gained 33 pounds. Brilliant, we are practically waifs! https://www.veria.com/pregnancy-parenting/36-weeks-pregnant-baby-is-no-longer-classified-as-a-premie


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## Kellen

I totally beat you all in weight gain, but apparently as a thin person before pregnancy my midwife is actually thrilled that I have gained *gulp* 40lbs. I feel massive. However, when she looked at my gain and then looked at me she said: "Where have you put it? You're still tiny!" Thanks... makes me feel soooo much better.

Jo - I'd be upset too if I couldn't plan. I'm a planner by nature so I completely understand why you are in a semi-state of panic. It would be nice if they would just tell you one way or the other instead of letting you dangle.

I had a horrible dream last night. I dreamt that I had a placental abruption that I didn't know about and my little girl was stillborn. Almost woke DH to tell him about it, but didn't. Apparently it stuck on my face and I finally told him this morning and cried for a good 10 minutes. I am taking comfort in the fact that my girl has some pretty strong hiccups going on right now and is very wiggly.


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## SierraJourney

Your pictures never looked like you gained that much Kellen! Way to go for hiding it! :) 

That dream sounds so horrendous! :( I would cry, too! Placental abruptions are SO scary! We talked about them in my childbirth class last night---apparently it takes a mother 3 minutes to bleed out from a placental abruption. . .And that's just enough time to do an emergency c-section (that's what they said)! Scared the crap out of me! :( I told DH last night that this whole time I had thought the scariest times were behind me after going through my first miscarriage and carrying this baby to full term. . .but I totally forgot about all of the complications that can happen during LABOR! Oh my goodness!


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## SierraJourney

So, remember how I said my husband and I are musicians? (I've been on break with the last bit of this pregnancy.. . so sometimes it's hard to even remember! lol) Well, we just booked THREE really big shows for the middle of March! I kind-of feel like I'm going to drown trying to do that so soon, but they were so lucrative that I couldn't pass them up! We have babysitters lined up to go WITH us, too, so that baby won't be far from me---and baby can listen to our shows if he isn't crying. :) So......we're praying for baby to come EARLY so I have more time to heal before then! 

So excited. . . but. . .. . Am I CRAZY?! :wacko:


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## helena

Sounds fantastic Sierra! Wish i could come too! :)


Oh my, the placenta business sounds terrifying.nd the dream! Oh my. I am not going to read up about it. I read a birth story of someone the other day who nearly bled out, and a girl I know had something similar happen to her though I forget why. Both stories involved a big bleed but luckily they were already at the hospital so could get help, otherwise it would have been fatal.....flippin heck....good thing is they both are ok, and there must have been signs or they wouldn't have gone to hospital, already?!...I don't know, I am keeping my head in the sand before I get all panicked...
I think things like this may be why i am so much more anxious about tis c sec than before. If there are complications there is so much more to be lost. I mean, I am not just me, not just a wife, but a mummy to two already who need me...
Oh can't wait for it all to be over.


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## wamommy

I can't wait for us all to have our babies safely in our arms, so we don't have to worry about all of the things that could go wrong! It truly is terrifying. 

Sierra, the show sounds great!! I am so jealous! What a cool way to start to introduce LO to music and culture. He'll soak it all in! Let us all know how the appointment goes today!


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## helena

Two sick boys here. Cold symptoms, horrid coughs, red faces....timing!? Argh, two weeks tomorrow I need us all well!!...


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## SierraJourney

Oh no helena! That's not good at all!!! Make sure you keep your hands washed and try not to get it---that's the last thing you need! Make sure to push water and orange juice. Poor little guys! That's not good timing at all! :(


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## helena

Already feeling a tickly throat.....that won't go well with a cut tummy...vitamin c here I come!


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## helena

A friend just posted this on Facebook. Made me laugh!...first time mums do read...https://www.scarymommy.com/a-letter-to-my-pregnant-child-less-self/

X


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## wamommy

:rofl: That post made me laugh, Helena!! So many truths :haha:

I'm so sorry your kids are sick :( My 4-year-old has a super runny nose, but seems to be fine otherwise. She's still full of piss and vinegar. When she's truly sick she turns into a lump on the couch, sleeping and whimpering. I hope your boys feel better soon (and that you don't get it!!)!


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## wamommy

Helena, your post made me think of this AWESOME poem by Tina Fey (who I love). I loved it when I read it, and wanted to share with you guys, especially those having girls!!

Sorry it's so long :dohh:


SheKnows.com shared the poem called The Mothers Prayer for its Daughter. Here it is below: (written by Tina Fey)

First, Lord: No tattoos. May neither Chinese symbol for truth nor Winnie-the-Pooh holding the FSU logo stain her tender haunches.
May she be Beautiful but not Damaged, for its the Damage that draws the creepy soccer coachs eye, not the the Beauty.
When the Crystal Meth is offered,
May she remember the parents who cut her grapes in half
And stick with Beer.
Guide her, protect her
When crossing the street, stepping onto boats, swimming in the ocean, swimming in pools, walking near pools, standing on the nearby subway platform, crossing 86th Street, stepping off of boats, using mall restrooms, getting on and off escalators, driving on country roads while arguing, leaning on large windows, walking in parking lots, riding Ferris wheels, roller-coasters, log flumes, or anything called Hell Drop, Tower of Torture, or The Death Spiral Rock N Zero G Roll featuring Aerosmith, and standing on any kind of balcony ever, anywhere, at any age.
Lead her away from Acting but not all the way to Finance.
Something where she can make her own hours but still feel intellectually fulfilled and get outside sometimes
And not have to wear high heels.
What would that be, Lord? Architecture? Midwifery? Golf course design? Im asking You because if I knew, Id be doing it, Youdammit.
May she play the Drums to the fiery rhythm of her Own Heart with the sinewy strength of her Own Arms, so she need Not Lie With Drummers.
Grant her a Rough Patch from twelve to seventeen.
Let her draw horses and be interested in Barbies for much too long,
For Childhood is short  a Tiger Flower blooming
Magenta for one day 
And Adulthood is long and Dry-Humping in Cars will wait.
O Lord, break the Internet forever,
That she may be spared the misspelled invective of her peers
And the online marketing campaign for Rape Hostel V: Girls Just Wanna Get Stabbed.
And when she one day turns on me and calls me a Bitch in front of Hollister,
Give me the strength, Lord, to yank her directly into a cab in front of her friends,
For I will not have that Shit. I will not have it.

And should she choose to be a Mother one day, be my eyes, Lord,
That I may see her, lying on a blanket on the floor at 4:50 a.m., all-at-once exhausted, bored, and in love with the little creature whose poop is leaking up its back.
"My mother did this for me once, she will realize as she cleans feces off her babys neck.
My mother did this for me. And the delayed gratitude will wash over her as it does each generation and she will make a Mental note to call me. And she will forget.
But Ill know, because I peeped it with Your God eyes.

Amen.


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## helena

Lol! loving the last verse! 

Becoming a mum even changed the way I view my MIL and her what seemed like obsessiveness.. A bit. Hehehe. Motherhood...its an amazingly varied adventure thats for sure!!! Xx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks for the laughs ladies!! Those are hilarious!! :)

Just an update on my appointment today--I only gained ONE pound in two weeks!!! Say WHAT?!?! Hooray!!!! I also took the strep b test---my office had us do it ourselves.. . still awkward, but at least no one could see me in the bathroom struggling to insert it. .. :rofl:

And, my midwife said baby is measuring BIG!! She said they are not worried about him gaining weight at all because she is guessing he is 6 1/2 pounds (maybe more) already! YIKES!!!! She said he could come anytime and they would be perfectly happy with it! So. . .what do you think I did?! After my sister's advice, I went to the health food store, picked up some evening primrose capsules, and I'm going to see if they work to get things going for labor! They worked for my sister---apparently you insert 3 of them near your cervix when you go to bed at night, and it's supposed to slowly soften your cervix. I'm hoping if I start now it will at least help me go a week early! I don't want a 9lb baby! :( They're expecting him to be big if he arrives on the due date or later! No wonder I've been so uncomfortable!

My DH is excited because I have now put sex back on the table---and EVERY night from here on out if I can find the energy. I don't want this baby to get much bigger---I want to keep my vagina in one piece, thank you very much! :rofl:

Have you heard anything about evening primose oil? Does it work?


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## wamommy

Yay for an awesome appointment, Sierra! It's so reassuring to know baby could come anytime now and be fine! I don't have any experience with Evening Primrose Oil, but I've seen a ton of people mention it on here. I've honestly not done anything in the past to speed along labor, except DTD the last couple of weeks :blush: Actually, I tried an old Italian wives' tale and cooked eggplant parmesan. Of course it did nothing, lol... but I've heard good things about Evening primrose.

You're so lucky you got to do the strepb test yourself! It was a bit awkward when I had it, but not painful or anything. It did make me realize (yet again) how happy I am to have a female OB, though!


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## helena

Oh excitant news Sierra! My mum said she was watching tv the other week and there was a woman presenting her new book all about how what we eat affect the fetus. And the woman confirmed that spicy food like curry does get baby excitable and make them move lots and can lead to contractions. My mum was warning me to not eat too much spicey food. So get a nice curry this weekend! With extra chili! :)

My two boys both ended p in our bed last night. Both full of heavy cold and grumpy. I ended p on the sofa at one point. Also grumpy. Am meant to be it for a Thai meal with friends tonight..sensible me would stay home and go to bed early...but sensible me doesn't always show her face, so I think I will go anyway. I will just make sure my dish isn't too spicy as a baby en route with two kids full of germs in the house wouldn't be ideal. Two weeks today I am scheduled, so I will go onto operation get-us-healthy for the next two weeks. 10 gallons of OJ each daily?! 

Good luck with the evening primrose! X


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## Kellen

Sierra, my midwife actually suggested that I start taking evening primrose oil orally 2 capsules 3 times a day. She said that it works just as well orally as it does vaginally to help ripen the cervix. And I'm also drinking 3-4 cups of red raspberry leaf tea to help strengthen my uterus. Since starting the EPO I have actually had stronger contractions before, which is supposed to be one of the side affects. I did slack off a little bit during the week I was away from home as I didn't want to start having contractions in the middle of my class!

Helena - sick kiddos are no fun. I'm sorry that you didn't get to sleep in your bed last night. I hope that the vitamin C kids the crud out of you so that you don't have to worry about getting too sick yourself.

I have a funny pregnancy hormone story to tell on myself. DH was talking about what other items we will need to add to our hospital bags. I mentioned we needed to put our cord blood kit thingy in the baby's bag because it has the least amount of stuff. While doing this I also remember that we needed to have the certificate that says we officially passed the waterbirthing class. Cue freakout. I tore the living room apart. I tore the kitchen apart. I tore the desk apart. I tore the baby's room apart looking for this stupid piece of paper... while making dinner. I finally conceded defeat and sobbed hysterically while DH held me and looked baffled. The hospital will not allow you to attempt a waterbirth without this piece of paper and they do not keep records of who takes the class. You have to be responsible. I then started crying about "How will I be a mom if I can't even take care of a piece of paper?!" Five minutes later DH finds the lost certificate in our headboard along with the rest of the pre-filled registration forms. I felt slightly stupid...


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone, not checked in here for a while- sorry.

My baby is now 3/5 engaged so loaddds of pressure! I am not taking RLT as hated it and I dont want a shorter labour than the other 2 in all fairness hehe.

Hope you are all keeping well? Not long till we have our bubbas now x


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## Midnight_Fairy

^ wow you can just have a waterbirth here if you ask, no course? What did course cover?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! We DTD last night.. . which I find so uncomfortable being this far along in pregnancy. I'm more wanting to just get DH enjoying it then wanting to enjoy it myself. . .I feel bad for that. . .but it's just so hard with this belly! Do you know if you have to O in order for it to help bring on labor? Or just DH? 

I also tried the evening primrose when I went to sleep. I woke up feeling a couple of twinges/cramps very low. . .don't know if that is wishful thinking of it really starts softening the cervix right away?! At any rate, I'm willing to keep trying it! Just a warning, though---those capsules smell wretched! :( 

Thanks for the tip on the spicy food! Curry is hard to come by here in the U.S., but maybe I can find something similarly spicy to eat? I did put hot sauce on my tacos last night, too! :thumbup:

Kellen--I've heard orally works, too! I think I might try to split them up and do both! lol I've been drinking red raspberry leaf tea my entire pregnancy, so maybe I should have more than one cup a day now! 

I also think I need to get more active, and that might help. I've been SO sedentary lately, and EVERY time I start cleaning the house, I get some pretty intense contractions. I think I should clean the house from top-to-bottom this weekend---AFTER I pack the bags, of course! (Still need to do that!) 

Helena---I hope you get everyone healthy SOON! That's so hard---and I know this cold is HORRIBLE! I'm STILL trying to get rid of it. . I can't smell or taste anything because my head is so clogged up with gunk! :(

I forgot to mention about my appointment yesterday---I talked to one of my regular midwives and convinced her that I don't want that new midwife in the room with me during labor. She seemed disappointed as apparently the new midwife hasn't had the chance to catch ANY babies yet (which makes me more worried), but I told her I'd be super uncomfortable with someone like her in the room that I barely knew. It was a really awkward conversation and I felt like a meany, but I just want to be as relaxed as possible during labor. So, anyways, they promised it would be only the midwives I know in the room (they take turns being on-call, so it could be either of them---which I'm completely okay with!) :flower:


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## Kellen

Midnight - I believe the course is for liability purposes. It covered the benefits for both mom and baby, but also went over what complications could ensue. We also looked at what point we could get in the tub, what to bring with us and other procedural issues. We live in the northern part of Georgia in the US. Ours is the only hospital in the area that actually offers waterbirth, and they have the lowest C-Section rate.

Sierra - It is only DH that needs to O during your DTD sessions. There is a certain something in sperm that reacts with the cervix to help soften it. I don't remember the name and am currently too lazy to google it. :haha: As for house cleaning I just found a deal for $29 they will come in and clean the carpet in all three rooms and my hallway. My mom also bought us two hours of house cleaning for Christmas. DH has decided that we'll schedule them to come clean while I'm recovering from labor and he'll watch them like a hawk. That way they can do all the deep cleaning that I can't (aka washing the baseboards, the walls, the windowsills). My project for this weekend is putting the Christmas tree away... which means convincing DH to actually retrieve the boxes from the attic since I'm banned from climbing the ladder. :blush:


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--what a wonderful gift!!! Oh my goodness, I would LOVE a deep clean for my house like that! I think during your recovery is a great time to use it! I doubt my baseboards, walls, and windowsills will get washed before baby comes, but at least maybe I'll have the rest of the house looking okay. :thumbup:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Oh wow, sounds intense, I guess cause healthcare/insurance is totally different over there. I would be rubbish for sure at organising that hehe :)


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## wamommy

Kellen, I am so jealous about the house cleaning! I have been trying to keep up with the housework, but it's so hard. It seems like a never ending job! The carpet cleaning would be especially nice, since we have cats and kids, and our carpets could REALLY use it!

Helena, how are you feeling? I woke up this morning at 5am with a very sore throat and plugged nose... dang it!!! I thought I'd avoided it :( I'm just praying it's gone before baby comes. I can't even imagine having a newborn and being sick, AND the worry over passing it along to LO! I'll try vitamin C, fish oil and rest today. Come on, body, FIGHT!

Midnight, it's good to here from you! How is everything going? I'm with you on not trying anything to shorten labor, since my last one was 90 minutes start to finish. I'm already terrified it will come on out of nowhere and I'll end up giving birth in the living room, :haha:

Sierra, I'm glad you get to have the midwife you like! I love my OB, but she actually missed both of my births! With the first one a midwife who worked at the hospital came in last-minute to deliver DD. With the second it was an MD I'd never met before. To be honest, I spent WAY more time with the nurses than either Dr, and they are what made my experience so amazing. I actually packed a Thank You card in my hospital bag this time to leave in the room for the nurses when I go home. DH thinks we should include a gift certificate to Krispy Kreme so the whole staff can treat themselves :D


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## SierraJourney

Aww wamommy--that's so sweet! What a great idea to thank the nurses!


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## helena

I was hoping to thank my obs but what do you give to a man who probably as everything he wants since he is a private doctor working at a private hospital and probably earning more than I can imagine!? I will atleast send him and his secretary a picture of all three of my children when they are together with a big thank you card - he will deliver them all. It's sweet - the reception of his surgery is covered with thak yo cards and photos of the babies he brought into the world :)


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## Jo_Bean

Hi all. We didn't get to the hospital yesterday as we were snowed in, so I now have to wait until this Friday to find out whether baby has turned or not and if it will be an induction or section :( more waiting!!

Helena - I think a picture and card is probably all he needs. I expect it mens more than 'stuff' anyway :D


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## wamommy

Helena, a card and picture sounds perfect! If I were a Doc, that's what I'd want :D

Jo, I'm sorry you have to wait longer to find out what's going to happen :( Hopefully you can use the snow as an excuse to curl up and watch some movies with DH and relax :)


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks. I was soooooo disappointed. But what will be will be and I think she might have even moved now so I am even more interested to see what they say at the scan!


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## Midnight_Fairy

wamommy said:


> Kellen, I am so jealous about the house cleaning! I have been trying to keep up with the housework, but it's so hard. It seems like a never ending job! The carpet cleaning would be especially nice, since we have cats and kids, and our carpets could REALLY use it!
> 
> Helena, how are you feeling? I woke up this morning at 5am with a very sore throat and plugged nose... dang it!!! I thought I'd avoided it :( I'm just praying it's gone before baby comes. I can't even imagine having a newborn and being sick, AND the worry over passing it along to LO! I'll try vitamin C, fish oil and rest today. Come on, body, FIGHT!
> 
> *Midnight, it's good to here from you! How is everything going? I'm with you on not trying anything to shorten labor, since my last one was 90 minutes start to finish. I'm already terrified it will come on out of nowhere and I'll end up giving birth in the living room,
> *
> Sierra, I'm glad you get to have the midwife you like! I love my OB, but she actually missed both of my births! With the first one a midwife who worked at the hospital came in last-minute to deliver DD. With the second it was an MD I'd never met before. To be honest, I spent WAY more time with the nurses than either Dr, and they are what made my experience so amazing. I actually packed a Thank You card in my hospital bag this time to leave in the room for the nurses when I go home. DH thinks we should include a gift certificate to Krispy Kreme so the whole staff can treat themselves :D

I am ok thank you. Just holding out for these last few weeks. I am terrified of giving birth alone! :wacko: Fingers crossed we will both make it haha xxx


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## helena

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_13999C58.jpg. 36 weeks 1 day. Just before going out for final meal with friends :)
Had a lovely evening. Lovely food and so nice to have a laugh with friends.

Feeling much better, just a lingering cough to shake over the next 13 days.
Wamommy, hope the vit C works for you. Turns out orange juice makes me feel sick :( get well soon xx

Thanks girls, a photocard it will be then. Thanks x

Sorry about your appointment Jo!


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## Jo_Bean

Helena - you look amazing!!


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## helena

Normally I am in saggy maternity leggins that shouldn't see the light of day, and a cardie but having finally had a pre baby haircut and made an effort to get dressed up I thought I had best best get a photo. Thank you.


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## wamommy

Helena, you're gorgeous! What a hot mama!


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## helena

Wow wamommy, so nice! Maybe I should make an effort more often! Lol. Back on the sofa and saggy tights and a cardie with bits of the kids dinner on it this eve! Lol x


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## Jo_Bean

Who says romance is dead? :winkwink:


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## SierraJourney

Jo---so sorry you weren't able to make it to the hospital!! Let's hope the week goes by fast for you to find out!

helena---you look GREAT!!! It's SO hard to make an effort when we are this far along! Kudos to you for going out!!

Well, I just packed my bag for the hospital. . .and lo's. . .DH is procrastinating more, so I'll just leave him to fend for himself when the time comes. ;) The hard part for me, is that I still use a lot of the stuff (like my ipod, my book, contacts, glasses, etc), so I had to just make a list of "last minute" stuff that I'll have to throw in there. I think I'll throw those things in my bag when contractions first start. . .that way I won't have to think through the more painful ones! ;)

BTW, when did everyone's midwives/doctors tell you to come in to the hospital? My midwife said to wait until contractions are 3 minutes apart for an HOUR before heading in. I've read on bnb that a lot of people go in at 5 minutes apart. . . Just curious! :flower:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Is this your first baby? I know they tell you to go as late as possible but the true answer is trust your body. If you feel its close or unable to cope etc then go in. It cant do any harm xx


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## wamommy

I agree with Midnight! At some point you'll just feel like it's time to go in, regardless of an exact time measurement. I'd say trust your body :) My plan is to go in with the very first contraction, lol. I don't want to chance having this LO at home. On the other hand, with DD#1 I stayed home a few hours and took a bath, etc, and it was nice to be in my comfort zone for a lot of labor. I'm sorry I don't have an exact answer!


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## SierraJourney

Thank you ladies! That helps! I guess we'll see what I feel like when the time comes! And yes, Midnight, this is my first. :)


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## helena

Finally nesting has kicked in! 11 days until my op. 
it's 11.30 and this morning did some washing, sorted and put away another pile, Sorted some old clothes into neat labeled packages to put away in storage, very unlike me, tidied a very messy kitchen, cleaned out two kitchen drawers, all while looking after two kids off sick. Rather proud of me. Even have my eye on cleaning out the cutlery drawer after lunch!....


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## SierraJourney

Wow helena---that's super impressive!! Way to go!! I'm a bit jealous of your ambition!

Last night was a bit interesting for me. I went to the bathroom right before bed, and smelled something strange. . . sorry for the tmi, but I then smelled the panty-liner in my panties, and it smelled super SWEET! (Now, I don't think I smell super bad down there normally, but it's definitely not "sweet" :rofl: ) So, I googled it, and it said sometimes sweet-smelling discharge is an amniotic leak? The liner wasn't wetter than usual (I wear it for the discharge), but the sweet smell had me worried. I have decided that if I smell it again this morning, then I would call the midwife and ask what I should do. . . however, this morning my nose is plugged! So, I'm waiting until it gets unplugged! (With this cold, it's been plugged in the morning but by afternoon it's usually pretty clear.) Then, last night, I woke up around 12:30a.m., in pain. I layed there for 20 minutes with what I can only describe as "practice contractions"---the pain would start, then slowly accelerate until it peaked, then it would start to feel better; then right after that one ended, another one would start back up. After 20 minutes, I got up, walked around, went to the bathroom, then they went away! Is that normal? I feel fine this morning, but it was strange. . .


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## helena

oh sierra! i know nothing about the sweetness, but i would be tempted to all th midwife just to get things checked...but if the pains went away and baby has ben wriggling maybe i wouldnt call...i am terrible at not wanting to cause a fuss!....but if fluid has leaked....maybe you should call?
its so hard knowing what to worry about and what not to isnt it! i have also been woken to pains, but they always go away again when i roll into a ball. but no sweetness going on here....
yes, i think you should call, could be the start of something?! did you do anything more active than usual yesterday or anything?


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## helena

ps. my ambition regarding the cutlery drawer and the general nesting may be to do with baby but also MIL coming to stay in 9 days! lol. not sure she will appreciate her forks mixing with the crumbs that akways find their way in that drawer! hehehe


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## Kellen

I am regretting having to be away at training all week this week. I really wish I could be at home nesting and getting things prepared. I have washed almost all the baby clothes, but I still need to sort them and put them away in their appropriate drawers.

At this point I am almost ready to call: "DONE" and just have her out. I know that the longer I stay pregnant the better it is for her development though. It is so hard to stay positive right now when I don't feel tip top. People keep telling me that she'll be late because girls are never early... Thanks for the positive encouragement people. Thanks...

DH took me out to dinner on Saturday. While we were eating I stopped and apparently had a strange look on my face. I explained that I was experiencing my first painful contraction. He has felt some of my BH. However, this was the first one that really made me sit up and pay attention. It wasn't bad, but it was different. I can't really explain it.

Tomorrow we have our 37 week appointment with the midwife. I'm not sure what their policy is on internal exams, but I suppose I'll find out! Of course the appointment is at 9:30am, which means I have to finish all my homework for my class by 5pm tonight (and I'm getting the assignment back at 3:15). Then I will be asking one of my classmates to turn it in for me. If it isn't turned in by 8am tomorrow I automatically fail...great.

All I want to do is go fall into bed. I have no desire to cook, clean or even pet the cat. Last night away from home was horrible. If (big if) I ever decide to have another child I will not schedule myself away from home at 37 weeks... especially if the walls are thin and I can hear the guy in the next room snoring. I honestly thought about pounding my shoe on the wall, but I resisted!


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## SierraJourney

helena---that's the thing, I don't feel like there is anything "leaking"--same old discharge I always have. . .so I don't want to jump to conclusions. . .and like you, I hate making a fuss. I think I slightly smell it today, but I'm not sure. If it's a leak at all, it's VERY VERY small. Baby is moving like CRAZY today (and last night). . .so I feel everything is okay? I have an appt with my midwife tomorrow, so I was thinking of waiting until then to say anything unless I experience more symptoms. I tend to get paranoid about things, so I don't want to look stupid by calling. . . If I was leaking, wouldn't contractions start soon?

The cleaning for MIL---TOTALLY understandable! I would be cleaning away, too! As it is, I turned my best friend away from coming to my house the other day because I was too embarassed at the state of it---so we met for dinner instead! It's soooo hard to keep up with everything!

Kellen---I don't blame you for being tired and regretting all of the time away right now. That's got to be EXHAUSTING! You are definitely not alone in wanting to be "done". . . I've been trying to think of everything I can to make baby come because I am soooo done! I've started sleeping really really poorly because my back hurts so bad now. . .if I'm not sleeping, I feel that I should be at least taking care of a baby during those wakeful times---not tossing and turning! Let's hope our lo's come soon!! Let us know how your appointment goes!


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## SierraJourney

Oh--and helena---I definitely was more active yesterday---cleaning and laundry and all sorts of things. I was on my feet ALL day long---which is unusual for me lately. I was having BH all day because of the activity. . .which is usually what happens. But it felt good to be active! :flower:


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## Kellen

We were given some "free" time this morning to polish our lesson plans and powerpoints. Lunch room open at 11:30 and we are supposed to be back here by 1pm. I am honestly thinking about grabbing a really quick lunch and then going and taking a nap until I have to be back. Thankfully I managed to snag a room on campus this time instead of having to stay at a hotel.


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## SierraJourney

I think that sounds like a good idea Kellen!


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## wamommy

Oh, ladies... we must be in the home stretch! I had forgotten how hard this last month can be. 

Helena, I've been in super-nesting mode, too! I feel like I should get all of the things done that I won't want to do with baby (like deep-cleaning stuff). Unfortunately, it seems like every time I clean a mess, 2 spring up in its place!

Kellen, it sounds like you're running yourself pretty hard. When do you get a break to rest and relax before baby comes? Also, both of my girls were 2 weeks early, so they DON'T always go over :D Let us know how the appointment goes tomorrow!

Sierra, how are you feeling? Did you decide to call in? 

As for me, I had a horrible night last night! I woke at 4am with an awful pain around the bottom of my tummy and around to my back. The only way I can describe it is like a contraction that wouldn't stop. It didn't come and go... so I don't think it was contractions. It was just one, solid pain for 2 hours. I took a hot shower, stretched on the floor, cried... and felt so incredibly spent once it ended. What the heck is my body doing?? I feel like I should KNOW, having kids already, but this is so new to me. I suppose I was lucky, breezing through those pregnancies. This one is full of all kinds of new and odd body pains. DH thinks what I had was a muscle cramp, but i don't know. I have a Dr. appointment on Wednesday, and I'll be sure to talk to her about it.

What's sad is that once all of our beautiful babies arrive, I think we will miss being pregnant! It's hard to imagine now, but it's become so much a part of who we are these last few months. I'm trying hard to enjoy it, despite the pains. After all, this is probably the last life I will grow, so I'm trying to soak it up!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - I am away at training until Friday. Then I go back to work for a week. My last official day at the office is February 6th. My mom flies in on the 9th. I tried to give myself a couple down days before she comes so I can do some minor house cleaning (she has promised to help with the other stuff). I think I'll arrange for the carpet cleaners to come on that Friday. DH wants to wait to have the green cleaners come while I'm in recovery so I go home to a sparkling house.

Things are super hectic at work. Last Wednesday my boss announced that his last day is January 31st due to the fact that he has accepted a new position in a new city. So now we are trying to finish up three projects that he was advising me on so that the assistant director (my direct supervisor) doesn't have to deal with them once I go out on maternity leave. Poor woman not only has to take over all my duties, his duties, her duties, a new employee that started last Wednesday, but she also has a 4 month old.

DH is very, very close to getting a new job. We are just waiting for documentation to come in before he can start applying to a handful of companies that we knew will want to hire him. His work rotation would probably be either 21 days on 21 days off, or 28 days on and off (out at sea). My grandma has invited us to come live with her free of charge. I haven't told DH of the offer yet, but it is a very tempting offer. My grandpa died in October and my parents moved into an RV on my grandma's property. The only drawback is that they are in Oregon and we live in Georgia. My parents have offered, however, to foot the cost of moving us back to the Pacific Northwest. Right now we have to have two incomes because of rent and living expenses, but if we lived at my grandma's we would drastically reduce our costs and I would be able to stay home with the baby. If we decide to do this my grandma is planning a 400 sq ft renovation to make us our own portion of the house. Any ideas of how to gently introduce this idea to my DH?


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## SierraJourney

I made a call in, but haven't heard anything yet. My panties have been damp all day. . .even through a panty-liner. It's nothing really bad, but feels like I sweated down there or something? But when I replace the panty-liner, within an hour, it's damp again. . .and it doesn't look like cm. . .it's just wet.? They did ask if baby was moving and everything--which he has been all day---so I'm not sure I'll receive a call back today or not? (They close in 20 minutes). 

wamommy--that sounds miserable! :( I'm sorry! Let us know what the doctor says on Wednesday--that doesn't sound normal to me, but who knows with how out-of-whack pregnancy makes our bodies! :)

Kellen--that sounds like a great opportunity! And if it's only your grandmother living in the house, then it wouldn't be that overwhelming, it seems. I'd just start a talk with your DH about what you want for the baby, etc., then slip in that your grandmother offered and you think it would be best for baby. Tell him you want his opinion and thoughts, but that it would save on daycare costs, you get to be with baby, etc. It'll probably be a hard discussion, but you have to at least try. I hope this helps! Let us know when you talk with him!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I hope you hear back soon! That sounds like maybe an amniotic leak? I don't know! They have a super easy test in office that will tell them if it is. I forget the name, but I think it's just a swab. Hopefully they call you before close today.

Kellen, I would definitely talk to DH about your options. Sierra had some great advice! I think as long as you start the conversation with letting him know how much you need/want/value his input, he'll be more apt to listen :)


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## SierraJourney

Well, they returned my call. They want me to go into L&D tonight and have it tested. They said they didn't want to wait until tomorrow's appointment in the afternoon---because if it was an amniotic leak, they'd want to deliver BEFORE my appointment tomorrow---SAY WHAT?! :wacko: 

Part of me just feels really foolish---like I shouldn't have called---because it's not like it is running down my leg or anything, just damp. And, I was wrong about baby being side-ways when they re-checked. . .and I just don't want them to think I'm crazy and overly paranoid. :(

But, then again, I don't want to ignore it. . .because I want to do what is best for my baby. 

So, they said it's no rush to go to L&D--just sometime tonight--, so DH & I are going to go home, grab some dinner, then we'll head to L&D. 

I'm embarassed and scared. . .and anxious. . .who knows what tonight could bring?


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## wamommy

Oh my goodness, Sierra!!! I will send thoughts and prayers your way :hugs: How exciting/scary/overwhelming!

I'll keep checking back to see what they say. Wowzers!


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## SierraJourney

Well, after two hours of monitoring, I'm back from L&D. The fluid, embarrassingly enough, was not amniotic fluid, but probably just discharge. :blush: I can't believe that one person can have so much discharge (it even left spots on the bed I was sitting in because it leaked so much!)! 

While on the monitors, they found out that I was having contractions 2 minutes apart in the beginning. Because of this, they checked my cervix and continued monitoring me. I'm only 1 cm dilated. The contractions varied in time and spacing, but I was having them the entire time I was on the monitors. ..and I found out that whenever I have back-pain, that's actually a contraction! I had no idea! So, I've been having pretty semi-regular contractions for a while! No wonder I'm miserable sometimes! :haha:

But, again, they sent me home because it was just a false alarm. I'm deflated. I feel so stupid for even having gone in (though they reassured me it was the right thing to do). I feel stupid for them having to bother my midwife after hours, and I feel stupid for not being "right". I know I probably shouldn't feel this way, but I really do. And, even though I know it's right for baby and his timing is most important, I'm so deflated that he isn't coming today. :nope: I am just so uncomfortable, my back hurts, I can't do ANYTHING it seems like, and I'm just ready for him to be here. I know I'm whining, and I'm sorry for that. .. I'm just having such a bad time. And then my DH keeps going on about how he "read a pamphlet that says you want to keep baby in until 39 weeks to ensure they're developed completely". Well, maybe that is what the pamphlet says, but HE came at 37 weeks when he was born, I came around 38 weeks when I was born, and I don't want to keep this baby in until my due date! :shrug: I'm so sorry for being so whiny, I really am. . .and I really care for my baby, but I just had this hope (especially after seeing the contractions), that I would be able to hold my baby soon---and I wouldn't have to deal with pregnancy anymore! I've been really fortunate and my pregnancy has been great so far. . .so I shouldn't complain. . .but I'm just sore, uncomfortable, and getting tired of all of this right now. :( 

Sorry for the rant ladies. . . All in all, my baby is SO healthy---moving around and great heartbeat the entire time he was on the monitors. I love him SO much. I'm just crabby and disappointed and embarrassed right now.

I think I may go take a bath and go to bed. :thumbup:


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## wamommy

Company is coming over in an hour, so I only have a sec, but I wanted to respond.

Sierra, don't feel bad or embarrassed! I completely understand feeling uncomfortable, and even a bit miserable. That doesn't mean you love your baby any less! It just means that this is a really hard (physically and mentally) thing that we are all doing, and we have every right to feel a bit fed up. Believe me, I'm with you. I would be ecstatic if baby came tonight!

I hope a bath and a good sleep helps, and I'll check back in tomorrow. Don't beat yourself up! And you aren't whiny, just human :hugs:


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## helena

Oh Sierra, don't feel embarrassed (((hug))). You did the bes thing for baby.
And as for the pamphlet your husband read, as far as I am concerned, 37 is considered full term, so don't listen ;)

The coughs continue n this house and I am so annoyed about it. C section in 10 days and everyone is coughing and spluttering and not sleeping good. Any top tips for getting rid of mucusy coughs fad much appreciated! May go buy a humidifier.
My eldest is on inhalers as heis sensitive and a normal cough virus can really affec him and give him an almost asthma attack, I have out my youngest on a homeopathic remedy since cough syrups aren't recommended for the unders 6s or so, and I am just getting on with it. It's so annoying tho.

Seeing my OB later hopefully, depends if DH can sneak out of work to watch the kids (big one was meant to be a school, small one was coming with me, but i don't want to take two sick kids to a room full of pregnant women!) hoping he won't want to delay the op....

Are we all having crappy times just now!? Guess there is a bit of last minute frustrations and nerves going on here at least...


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## Jo_Bean

Me too Sierra :hugs: I'm not going to lie! I've about had enough right now. It's so uncomfortable and the lack of control and anticipation just makes it harder. Xx

We will all be holding our babies soon and this will be a faded distant memory xxxx


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## SierraJourney

Thank you so much ladies. You are all so very supportive! I had a rough night last night. I went to bed around 9p.m., only to wake at 11:20, 12:30, 1:40, 2:30, and 4:30---each with really painful contractions that I had to get out of bed, walk around, drink water, etc. to feel any relief. That's two nights in a row of painful contractions. Is this normal?! Then this morning, my lower back ACHES, as does my pubic bone. . . I'm not sure what is going on, but I'm walking very very slowly this morning. I have an appointment later on this afternoon, so I'll ask my midwife, but I'm just in a lot of pain. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is fed up at this point! I felt like such a baby yesterday. . .the bath and bed helped . . . 

Again, thanks ladies! You're the best. :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

helena---let us know what happens at your appointment!


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## helena

Oh Sierra, soudns like a rough night. Let us know what your midwife says.

I have gained a whopping 2 kilos in 11 days! Hahahahahaaaaaaa. I am eating whateveri want now. I decided I need to appreciate these last few weeks...
That was about all that came out of m appointment. It was my last before I see my OB in the operating theatre! Amazing. Baby head down, looking upwards apparently (good, looking down isn't the best of views!) and fluid is all fine. :)


Serra, hope your appointment can help you work out why you are hurting. Sounds like early labour to me, especially the back ache. Or maybe baby has dropped and is squishing things tha shouldn't be squished. Hoping your midwife can help. Let us know.

Xx


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## SierraJourney

Wow--helena---that is so exciting that it's your last appointment before you meet baby! Oh I just can't wait! :) And 2 kilos!--that's impressive! :thumbup: But kudos to you for eating whatever you want! We may as well enjoy these last few days, huh?!

Thanks helena---part of me thinks it is early labor, too---but wouldn't they have said something last night? I so wish I knew what was going on with my body--and I surely hope my midwife can help me understand. 

I've been keeping track of my "contractions" today. (I just thought all I was feeling was baby pushing his bum into my rib cage, but everytime I felt that last night, they said it was a "contraction" on the monitor!) So, if each of those are contractions, then for 1.5 hours while I've been at work, I've been having those every 3.5 minutes! Seems concerning to me---even if they are Braxton Hicks. . .but then again,, they sent me home last night. . .so who knows! :shrug:


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## Jo_Bean

Oh exciting Helena!! Go you! I would definitely be eating whatever I wanted now if I didn't have GD :haha:

Sierra - don't let them scare you off of phoning them back. They aren't always right you know. Only you know your body and I say go with your gut. If you are worried or feel funny then trust your feelings and phone them up again.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Jo---I have an appt in 2 hours, so I'm going to see if I can hold out until then to see what is going on. Thank you!


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## helena

Oh it's exciting Sierra!

Thanks girls for not making me feel guilty for the extra weight gain! I just seem hungry!...for junk!...and since I don't plan on ever being pregnant again I might as well enjoy these last few ever days of guilt free eating...unless breastfeeding goes really well then I get an extension! :)

Keep us updated Sierra, every 3.5 minutes sounds often for any sort of contraction! Am excited for you! Xx


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## Jo_Bean

I say at this point, we've all done all we can to keep our babies safe and comfy and warm, now it's time to do what we need to do to get through the next few days and weeks! So anything goes! No judgment here at all!

Good luck Sierra xxx are you going to be next!? :wohoo: this is getting exciting!!


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## Blue_bear

Hi ladies. Sorry I've not been around for ages, life has been pretty hectic here! 

I've tried to read along when I can but I'm sure I will have missed some stuff so apologies for that! 

Hoping its ok that I tag along with you guys again now?


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## Jo_Bean

Hey you! I was thinking about you the other day and wondering if everything was ok! How exciting, we are nearing the end now! How are things going with baby bear?


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## Blue_bear

We're good thanks Jo! Finished work now and spending some time with DS which is lovely but v.tiring! I can't seem to sleep enough at the moment.

I had a scan @ 35weeks as people kept commenting my bump was small and fundal measurement too but all is fine with her. She is actually measuring a week ahead and was approx 5lb 10 and predicted birth weight is 8lb 4....we shall see!

I am getting awful sharp pains in my cervix though and my hips kill me at night, not to mention the acid reflux that makes me projectile vomit in the middle of the night.....all good fun eh?! 

How's things with you?


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## Jo_Bean

Not been plain sailing but I'm managing fine ta. Baby girl has talipes (club foot) in both feet and I've got GD. She's bigger than average so I am waiting to find out if they are inducing me or giving me a c section at 38 weeks! I find out on Friday! It was supposed to be last Friday but I got snowed in :dohh: of all the times! 
Last scan showed she was breech which is why maybe the c section. But we'll find out what position she's in at the scan. 

I've been getting awful acid reflux too, so bad I am up every hour at night taking rennies or gaviscon and nearly vomiting! So I sympathise!


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## Blue_bear

Oh gosh, it really is a roller coaster ride isn't it?! 

I'm starting to get impatient already which is bad, not helped by the fact my sister and SIL had their babies this week...

My sister had a section due to breech actually Jo, and she said it wasn't a bad experience at all (natural first birth) hope you get some answers soon!


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## SierraJourney

Well I'm back from my appt. Midwife says everything I'm feeling is NORMAL! I'm not completely convinced... as I usually have a really high pain tolerance, but this back ache is really affecting me! But she said not to worry unless my water breaks, can't talk through contractions, or baby stops moving. So... I guess I'm just in pain until baby comes.... :(

Hello blue bear!!


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## Blue_bear

Big hugs Sierra, hopefully you won't have to wait to long! Have you thought about trying Tens machine? I'm borrowing one from tomorrow and I'm hoping that will help my pains x


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## Jo_Bean

Oh wow! There really is a baby boom then! Congrats to your sis and SIL blue bear!

Sierra - looks like another bath is on the cards for tonight then :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! Definitely having a bath tonight. What is a Tens machine?


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry I haven't been around, everyone! Taking care of twins is SO time consuming! It's all I can do just to get enough sleep to function, let alone get online. Today, I went out grocery shipping for the first time since they've been home, and DH stayed home with the babies. It's kind of awesome to be out by myself...like a vacation! I love my sweet little babies, but I needed some me-time :)

You all are getting so close to meeting your babies! That's so exciting, hang in there!


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## Jo_Bean

A tens machine is a battery operated pack with small electrode pads that you can stick to your back, or neck etc. that deliver a small shock supposed to massage the muscle by tensing and relaxing it. They recommend it over here for pain relief in labour. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcutaneous_electrical_nerve_stimulation


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## wamommy

Hi Blue_bear! Nice to see you here! Glad to hear all is going well with baby :D

Sierra, I'm afraid that's what my midwife is going to say tomorrow, too. I've been up 3 nights in a row with a horrific back ache and contractions, or what actually feels like one solid, 3-hour contraction. I can't figure it out! I never had this with my girls! I think my Dr will tell me it's all normal :( Don't get me wrong, I want it to be normal, but that also = no solution, haha! I'm hoping we're all getting close to meeting our babies, since it sounds like everyone is reaching the same point of discomfort. 

Helena, don't feel bad about your weight gain! That's really not much, and you're right, we only have a couple weeks left to enjoy guiltless eating :D I'm sure I will have gained more than I'd hoped when I get weighed in tomorrow, but oh well. There have been some pretty emotionally draining things going on in my family this week, so I've been doing my fair share of emotional eating :blush: 

Dragonfly, glad to hear the twins are doing well! I can't even imagine how much work (and how wonderful!) they are. I'd say plan a shopping trip, or something similar, every week so you can stay sane! I'm looking forward to more pics, hehe... They always make me smile and remind me why we're all doing this!


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## helena

Hi blue bear!

Today's positives - DS (4 year old) finally back to school aft being too unwell for 6 days. He is still coughing lots but hopefully should be ok for the birth in 9 days....arrrh 9 days!
Also, I managed to clean the living room floor and finally get to the supermarket. Small boring things, but it made me happy.
Today's negatives - mild nausea. Mopping and shopping has made my pelvis feel like it may crumble any minute. Am hobbling like a 95 year old.
And I have realized that all my knickers are too small. Bt what's the point in buying more for 9 days? Ts just when I sit the elastic squeezes too tight. I never did buy maternity undies, just big granny pants..maybe I should invest in maternity ones, could be comfy after the op. did you girls get any?


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## wamommy

Helena, I didn't bother with maternity undies, just a size bigger in low-rise ones that fit under the belly. Unfortunately, I've found that my belly pushes them down in the front, which makes them fall down in the back! I'm constantly hiking them up... :haha: I'm glad your DS is feeling better! And I can't BELIEVE it's only 9 days away for you! EEK! So excited!

Doctor in 2 hours, can't wait! I'm sure there will be "no change," but I still love the reassurance that all is well.


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## Jo_Bean

I haven't bought any new undies apart from a pack of cheap ones for my hospital bag. 

If I have the c section then I was thinking of getting some maternity ones as people have recommended them for comfort again the incision rather than because we need the size. 

I have bought some nursing maternity pyjamas to go in my hospital bag for that same reason.


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## Blue_bear

I just stocked up on cheap ones for my bag, although I did use the 'disposable' maternity briefs for a little bit last time and they weren't that horrific. Worth having for emergencies. 

Can I ask where you ladies feel baby hiccups? I was getting them really low down in my pelvis but am now quite alarmed to be getting them at the top of my bump under one rib. She surely can't have turned breech after being head down all this time?! Panicking a little...


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! 

wamommy--let us know what your doctor says. I totally understand where you are coming from! I was out on the couch ALL day yesterday after work because I was so sore and uncomfortable---was drifting in and out of sleep. Today, I feel MUCH better--as if baby could stay in for another MONTH! (No thanks. . . :haha: )

helena--so glad you got a kid back to school---hopefully all of the coughs leave before 9 days! I'm so excited for your lo to be here in 9 days!!!! I found out today that my mum came 2 weeks early with one of my sisters, and the other sister and I came 10 days early! So, I'm hoping my baby takes after us and comes EARLY! :) 

I didn't bother with maternity undies---just bought one size bigger so I could have "pretty panties". . .although, like wamommy said, they get pushed down by bump. . .so nothing is really that attractive anymore! :lol: I had bought a thong in a size bigger, thinking it might be a nice attractive pair of panties for DH. . . but after having them on for a day and the bump pushing them down, they sort-of just "rolled" into strips on my side. . .DH looks at me and goes: "Panties too small?" :rofl: So much for trying! ;) I just packed big granny panties for my hospital bag. . . I might use the hospital's paper panties for the first day. . . 

Blue bear---I get hiccups down and to the left. Maybe call your doctor? That seems odd. . . 

Dragon---glad to hear things are going well and you got some time for yourself! I think it'd be good to schedule times like that when you can. . .it'll keep you sane. :)


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## Jo_Bean

:rofl: Sierra that is a brilliant picture I have in my mind now of your thong!


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## helena

I get the roll down too. Font and back. Am so unattractive pulling them up allday!lol.

Mild are crisis going on here. Thought we were one hundred percent, but DH wasn't entirely sure, and I didn't always like the way he pronounced the name we had (accent). So then we chose a new one and were excited and 4 year old loves it. But 2 year old said no. Lol and now. And i back and forth between the two! Lol...


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## SierraJourney

Oh no helena! Any way to convince the two year old?


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## helena

W had decided he was outvoted, he doesn't really have an idea what is happening anyway, but now i keep changing my mind! Aargh! Might have to see what she looks like first!?


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## Jo_Bean

Take them both as possibilities and see what she looks like :thumbup:


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## SierraJourney

I agree with Jo!


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## Kellen

Wow! You all have been very busy over the past few days. I can't believe you only have 8 days to go, Helena. That is awesome! 

Dragon - I can only imagine how exhausted you must be with your two bundles of joy at home now. Congrats on being brave enough to go grocery shopping and having a little alone time.

We had our 37 week appointment this Tuesday. Midwife says that everything looks perfect and that our little girl is in position, she just needs to drop down a little bit more. She said that she doubts she will come early. :(

I am still at training until Friday. I passed the second round of testing, which was the creation of a 20+page lesson plan. Today we did our practice teaching session. My evaluators told me that I would have passed today, but for Friday I should try to exhibit more confidence. It was a little odd as the baby got the hiccups during the middle of my presentation and my belly started doing the jiggly wiggly dance. We aren't supposed to sit during our hour long presentation, but I've been given a pass to have a chair up there in case I need to sit down.

Thank you for the advice, ladies, regarding our potential move. I haven't spoken with DH yet, but that is okay. He is super family oriented and once I tell him that my grandma needs me I'm pretty sure he'll go with it. We probably wouldn't move until sometime in mid-July due to my dad having knee surgery. I would fly out with the baby while DH and my dad drive across the US towing a car and two motorcycles. :haha:


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## wamommy

I agree with Jo, too! After you see her one of the names might jump out as the right one :D

I'm just now back from my Doctor appointment. They were running almost an HOUR behind, and poor DH had to watch the girls in the waiting room while I sat back in the exam room waiting on my doctor. She finally came in and did a quick iron test (still low :( ) and checked heart beat and how baby is positioned. She said baby is really long, which I figured... since his butt is way up in my ribcage, and I'm tall. I'm groupb strep negative, yay!! 

I was SOOO disappointed today though, because she wouldn't do an internal exam :( I honestly think that I was her last appointment before lunch and she was running behind, so she made an excuse... but either way. She TOLD me that she didn't want to start anything by feeling around in there, and that she'll do one next week (at 38 weeks) since she's more comfortable with the baby being born then. Who knows, but I was REALLY curious to know if I've dilated, and if my cervix is still posterior. All in all I left feeling a bit hurried, and like I didn't have a chance to ask any questions. Ah well, at least my next appointment is only a week away.

Blue_bear, I thought my LO had flipped a few weeks ago when I felt hiccups in my ribs two days in a row! Usually I feel it down by my right hip bone. Doctor checked and he hadn't flipped, though, and she said that it was probably hiccups, but they were causing baby's whole body to "twitch," which I was feeling up under my ribs. Hopefully that's what it is!


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## wamommy

Kellen, grats on passing your test! Also, glad to know baby is doing well :D Don't be too discouraged about baby being high, since that can all change in a day or two!!


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## DragonflyWing

At your request, here are some pictures of the babies. :) I need to try to get some better ones of the two of them together.
 



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## wamommy

Thank you, Dragonfly :D SOOOOO Cute!! They look like perfect little dolls :hugs2:


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## Kellen

Dragon they are getting so big! Those are adorable pictures. Looks like your little guy is a bit more interested in the camera than his sister. They are wonderful babies. You are doing such a good job!


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## helena

Loving the pictures dragon!

It's 5am here and I am awake, my son was up coughing :( then I was coughing.
Then I was just drifting back off and I felt a small gush of liquid. Smal, but maybe Maryland cookie sized patch in my knickers.. I had just been for a pee and don't think it was that. I wiped and there was a tiny bit of pink.i think, but pink loo roll doesn't help! I put on a panty liner so can keep an eye on it.....pretty sure my doc is out of the office today, typi


Big Gush!

Oh help! Going to loo...


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## wamommy

Helena! I hope all is well! It's almost midnight here and I'm off to bed, but I will check back first thing in the morning.

Eeek! This could be it for you!! I"m so excited that I will barely sleep! 

Sending all of my thoughts and prayers to you and baby tonight :D


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## Jo_Bean

Oh wow! Update if you can Helena, but most importantly, get yourself checked out!


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## Blue_bear

Wow, Helena please let us know!

I've woken up with a burning kind of period pain but no tightenings. really strange!


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## Midnight_Fairy

happy 37weeks ladies xx


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## helena

She is here! And just perfect.


So waters went at 5sh, drove myself to hospital (!) ,monitor said I was having contractions but felt to me just like I mildly needed a poo.. First ever internal exam said i was dilating, which is why the midwife said my waters were pinkish. Then mad rush for DH trying to get kids to a friends (had no plan in place, grandparents meant to have flown out for the scheduled c section), contractions starting to hurt a bit by 7.30, c section at 8, DH arrived with 10 minutes before I was opened.

Just got to check name with my kids first, but she is perfect, 2.86 kilo, 47 cm. right on 37 weeks. Can't quite believe it. 
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_E722FA52.jpg
X


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## Blue_bear

Wowed Helena, congratulations!!!


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## SierraJourney

WHAT?! Helena that is CRAZY! An AWESOME and just WONDERFUL!!! Congratulations!! She is gorgeous!! I can't believe it happened that quickly! After reading your post, I had to call DH---I told him this baby HAS to come now because all of my friends' babies are coming! :haha: He said I need to have more sex to bring it on! :rofl: But, I think that's exactly what I might do after work! ;) 

Again, helena, congratulations--I'm so happy for you!! Can't wait to hear the name!!

Dragon---love the pictures! They are SO tiny! What are they weighing these days? I love the carseat picture---I was a bit worried that my carseat was set too "tiny", but after seeing your picture---it makes perfect sense since the babies are so tiny! :)

wamommy---that's disappointing that they didn't check you! My office won't check me until 39 weeks (unless I have to go to L&D again, then L&D checks). Poo! Hopefully you get checked next week! How much weight had you gained? I was up 2 more pounds in 5 days! Puts me at a total of 32lbs gain! My DH reassured me that it's all baby!--which I'm not sure is much reassurance since that "all baby" has to come through my you-know-what! :rofl:

Last childbirth class was last night for me---now I'm all educated! :) Let's get this show on the road! :)


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## helena

Kiara Jane. Finally. Xx


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## SierraJourney

Oh helena, I LOVE that name! So pretty! What an awesome pick! Is this the Disney character name or where did you find it? LOVE it!


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## helena

Yip, my 4 year old chose Kiara from Lion King 2! Hehehe. I love it.
Simba's daughter don't you know :)


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## SierraJourney

Guess I need to catch up on my Lion King 2! :) Well, it's just lovely! GREAT pick! :)


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## Blue_bear

Beautiful name!


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## wamommy

Congrats Helena!!!!! :yipee: :yipee: Kiara is just gorgeous, and I LOVE the name!! I can't believe you went early. I was JUST telling DH last night that I kind of wished we had a scheduled birth so that I could know when he is coming, but I suppose even that isn't a guarantee! Kiara was ready to meet the world early :D I hope your recovery is going well. How do the boys like her? Oh, this is so exciting! How much did she weigh?

I had my baby shower last night. I was incredibly touched by how many women showed up, and it was really sweet. We got mostly clothes, which is great, since we didn't have a lot. Mostly, I was just touched by how many women wanted to get together to celebrate this baby. I've been stewing a bit lately, feeling like no one cares about this pregnancy (being my third, and Grandma's 6th grandbaby) so having people dote a bit was just what I needed!

Sierra, I didn't gain any weight this week, so I'm sitting at just under 30 pounds total. Honestly, I think I would have gained a couple of pounds, but I've had diarrhea (sorry, TMI!) for a couple of days and I think it knocked a pound or two off. As gross as it is, it's kind of nice after months of having problems going at all!

I still can't believe another baby has been born! Don't worry, ladies... we're all going to pop soon!


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## Jo_Bean

Wow!!! Congratulations Helena! She's perfect and it really brings home how real she is and therefore, how real ours are! That's what I have in my stomach! :saywhat: I still can't get my head round it!!!

Who will be next!?


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---diarrhea!? That's a good sign!! :)


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## Blue_bear

It's like symptom spotting in first tri again, I'm terrible though. Every little niggle or pain I analyse lol.


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## Jo_Bean

^me too! I've been worrying about amniotic leaks lately! I'm sure I'm just slightly incontinent :rofl:


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## wamommy

Jo_Bean said:


> ^me too! I've been worrying about amniotic leaks lately! I'm sure I'm just slightly incontinent :rofl:

LOL :haha: Made me laugh!

Sierra, I'm hoping diarrhea is a good sign! I think I may have just eaten something bad! I sure hope not. :dohh:

I'm with you guys on symptom spotting! I just can't imagine that all of these cramps and pains aren't doing anything... so I've convinced myself that I'll magically be 5 cm dilated at next week's appointment. Wishful thinking!!! It keeps me sane, though :haha:


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## Blue_bear

I keep waking with awful hip/back pain in the night, but before I wake i keep dreaming that I'm in labour and its contractions. Then I roll over and it goes away! Haha


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## SierraJourney

I'm the same way wamommy! I can't be in all of the pain for NOTHING! It's at least had to dilate me more! lol . . . 

I've started getting random work people telling me "tips" on how to go into labor. . .They're all ready to see me pop, I think! And apparently I look huge lately and like a torpedo! lol. . .I think that's a good sign of popping! haha. . . Two people today have asked if I dropped---I have NO idea anymore. . .but hopefully their asking means that I HAVE!

My bosses are kind of freaking out and telling me that I need to finish up on my paperwork and get my emails caught up---they're afraid of my going any day now. :haha: I seriously doubt that for the next few weeks of waiting, that I'll have my desk 100% clean and have NOTHING to do! So, I'm assuming *something* is going to still be on my desk whenever I go into labor---regardless of when it is! 

I want to go for walks and active things in order to encourage labor, but I just don't FEEL well lately (still fighting a cold and baby pains), so I end up on the couch all evening. :( I hope sitting on the couch encourages labor! :rofl:


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra - have you got an exercise ball? Sitting on one of those can help to bring baby down and into position and encourage labour apparently. It's all to do with the natural urge to squat or something like that :shrug:


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## helena

So girls, my signs yesterday were...nausea, strange stabby pain in my boob and top of bump. And that was it. I think my coughing may have helped.
Or the sitting on the sofa eating pizza and chips (fries)!
I also spent some time mopping the floor...maybe it was that!? Oh, and a hot bath.

Wamommy, she was 6lb3. 2.86 kilo.i can't believe she was inside me this time yesterday. That that bump tha moved was her. Crazy. So Jo I understand your confusion! :)
Sh is so cute, making lots of squeaky noises as he sleeps. 
I feel ok, a bit of pain, but ok. Mostly just tired, it's 10.30 and I have been awake since 4.30am...
Bum very achy and numb from sitting in bed ;( though I have been walking twice already, just a few steps, but I am really pleased. Also have eaten and boobie fed baby so it's all good. Hoping tomorow will be less pain and aches.

Hurry up, who is next,?......x


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## Jo_Bean

That's amazing Helena! No matter how many babies are born, it's just a miracle I will never cease to be amazed at :cloud9:

How was te c section? Are you dosed up now? Achey?


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## SierraJourney

Jo---I don't have one. :( I think my sister has one in storage, though--so maybe I'll ask her to dig it out for me! Thanks!!

helena---so glad that you are doing so brilliantly! That's great to hear! Rest up when you can---you deserve it! Pizza and chips sound amazing! :) I told my DH that I've been nauseous for two days! Didn't know that could be a sign! let's hope so! :)

So happy you have your little girl!! :hugs:


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## Kellen

Helena - congrats. She is absolutely beautiful, as is her name. I cannot believe that she got here so quickly. I'm glad that you took your symptoms seriously and made it to the hospital in time for them to get you your c-section.

Yes, congrats everyone on making it to week 37. Only 3 more weeks to go until we can officially begin going crazy if our little one's haven't made an appearance into the world yet.

Please feel free to skip this next part as it is just me being mopey and random.
Last week I volunteered to go get an army friend of my husband's and my SIL so that he could see our 9 year old nephew test for his black belt. However, at the time, I did not realize that the trip time from where we live was the same as where I am away at training. Geographically I am much closer, but there is no major road that runs between here and there. Now I have upset everyone's plans by refusing to spend an additional 3 hours on the road. I'm sorry, but if I had known it would take me 2 hours to get there and 2 hours to get home I would have never volunteered. SIL and BIL are from here you would think they would have said something...
I feel like there is too much going on right now. My boss has a new job. I have a new office mate. I have to give an hour long presentation tomorrow. I've been told once I pass the presentation I will be made an official instructor once I come back in addition to my normal job duties. My grandma wants me to live with her. DH doesn't know grandma wants us to move 4,000 miles. Minor financial concerns while on maternity leave. DH hates his job. I've never been a parent before, will I be able to do it? I feel overwhelmed and depressed and am crying all the time.

Okay, the "woe is me" is over. I agree that I too have been trying to symptom spot. Every little twinge or "period type pain" that I feel means I must be going into labor. Hopefully we will all have beautiful babies in our arms sooner rather than later.


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations, helena! She is beautiful! So happy for you!

The babies had a weight check this morning...Gunnar is 5 lb 14 oz and Lilja is 5 lb 1 oz, she's my little peanut. She looks so tiny compared to her super good eater brother lol. She's a slow eater and sometimes forgets how to eat, so we have to keep a close eye on her weight.


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so glad you're enjoying your little princess :cloudnine: I can't believe you've been up and walking already. You're a pro! When do you get to go home?

As for symptoms, I'm all over the map. I have felt really "off" today, but DH thinks I ate something bad which is making me mildly sick. I've just felt dizzy, diarrhea, and a bit hot. Also, like I'm about to cry all day, which is totally unlike me. I think I've cried 3 times this pregnancy. Today I was walking in target looking at lip gloss with my girls and suddenly had the powerful urge to cry! WTH?? 

Kellen, I'm sorry you're having a rough time :hugs: You DO have a lot going on right now! It's understandable to feel a bit overwhelmed. I think you'll do great as a first-time-Mom, and your living situation will work itself out. For now, just make sure to take time for you and de-stress. 

Sierra, I've been trying to walk to bring on labor, but it's exhausting! I think I have an exercise ball in the garage somewhere... maybe I"ll dig it out tonight. I'm so ready to meet this kid :D

Dragonfly, the babies are getting so big! I'm so glad they're doing well!!!! :D


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## helena

Thanks all. I couldn't not take my symptoms seriously kellen, was so much pink water. After I put a panty liner on at 5am I went into the bedroom and wanted to show DH the waterwas pink, to get his opinion, but (tmi?) as I moved my undies I left a big gush of water on the bedroom floor! Oops. Filled a nightime panty liner in seconds. 
Can't help but feel you need maternity leave now Kellen, eliminate so,e of your woes. Xx


Wamommy, sounds like some good symptoms to me! 

I fear I am he until Monday. Sunday would be normal, but I need my doc to sign me out and I doubt he will work a Sunday...
Hoping to have a shower this morning tho :) that's my current excitement. That and the fact that I can hear breakfast coming down the corridor. 
My little angel was a bit of a night owl. Just wide eyed and looking about a lot of the time. Like a little frog, all big wide eyes. Calm, not crying, but more awake than in the day. And she likes feeding!..maybe I got 4 hours of sleep. I even asked midwife to take her for two hours so I could sleep. I hated that with my first baby, I wanted him here all the time. But last night I just needed sleep :)

Have. Good day all, make sure your bags are ready. Mine wasn't and I just realized I need to call DH to get him to bring in some trousers for me! Doh.

Xx


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## SierraJourney

Goodmorning all. I am home from work today because I fell sick with ANOTHER cold last night. I had the last cold for two weeks, then just when I thought I was feeling better, BAM--this one hit. :( I took it as a sign that I need to stay home from work today and sleep---obviously my current schedule isn't keeping me healthy! :( 

I am absolutely miserable. There are only certain positions I can lay/sit in that I can actually BREATHE, but those positions hurt my back and bump. :( On top of that, my Braxton Hick contractions are going CRAZY all night and all morning. And, I have diarrhea (which I was hoping as a good sign, but now I dont' want to go into labor while I'm sick----I dont' have the energy to do it!). .. So. ..that's where I am at this morning. . .no fun. :(

Dragon---your babies are growing fast---how cute!

Helena---it's so good to hear you are doing so well. I hope they serve an extra good breakfast for you this morning!

Kellen, I agree with the others---take some time for yourself. . if you need to go on maternity leave early, do it. Everything will sort itself out, but you need to take care of YOU.

wamommy----sounds like you are getting some good signs! I can't wait to see who is next!!

Okay. . .now it's time for a nap. . .


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## helena

Get well soon Sierra. I agree, you need to slow down and rest up xxx

Sorry Jo, I didn't answer you.. Yes the section was fine. Very calm, straight forward. Baby was out in half an hour. It took a while to close me since it was my third and apparently the skin was a bit fibrous from previous scar tissue. Yuk. But all was fine. I am a bit sore, but am only taking paracetamol and an anti inflammatory. A much better than my last one. I was up walking a few steps after 6 hours, and was moving my legs about in bed as soon as I could. I had a catheter in for 24 hours, and a drip, but as of 24 hours I have been walking ok and had a shower. All on my own. It hurts for the first minute of walking, and I get up like an old lady, but after a minute you sort of walk off the pain and I can walk ok. A few times i started aching but the best thing to do is walk or just ask for more paracetamol. dont feel doped up at all.

My cough is a pain, coughing hurts so much I cry. Have just got some cough medicine from the midwives so hoping it helps.

I get contractions when feeding baby. It's all normal, it's the uterus shrinking back down, but my word it hurts!....am trying to remind myself it is making my tummy smaller. Bt it is horrid. I don't know if it is bad for everyone or worse post section?...

Am rediculously excited that my boys will all visit tomorrow and we will go to the hospital canteen for a drink and snacks. Have mostly been in my room today, apart from a few strolls around some corridors, and am going slightly mad. Me its only been 2 days..
Doctor says I will be here until Monday or Tuesday...we will see.

Baby still lovely. Feeding well.


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## Jo_Bean

Oh that's great that you seem so perky and have been up walking Helena! Go you! Thanks for the lo-down on the section! I'm reading all about it now as mine is booked! Tuesday 5th February! 11 days :shock: 

I need to pack my bag definitely. It's half packed, I was hanging on to see if it would be a section or an induction to finish it off as slightly different things needed :thumbup: now we know!


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## Blue_bear

Really pleased to hear your recovering well Helena. Must be nice to have your own room, I was on a ward for two nights and it was so noisy, even if your baby was quiet you could guarantee someone else's would be crying! 

I had a weird one last night....went to bed shattered about 9ish, but couldn't settle or fall asleep. I got up because I felt like I needed a poo (sorry tmi!) but was also really sick which woke hubby up. I didn't feel I could get back in bed after that, ended up pacing around downstairs. No contractions as such but definite period pain and some back pain but its just not timeable?! I felt so agitated, and today because I've been so tired I've been mega irritable. 
Impatient.much!


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## Blue_bear

Wow Jo, I would love to have a definite date!! 11days isn't long at all!


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## Jo_Bean

I mentioned to the MW that I had experienced some 'leaking' for a little while we were all thinking I could be having her a lot sooner as she thought my waters had gone, but did a speculum and found that I was just extra 'moist' down there :blush: I was a bit embarrassed because I thought I looked like a hypochondriac but she was lovely and said better to check these things :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks helena! I can't imagine how much coughing has to hurt for you right now! I was wondering how your family was doing with all of their coughs! Sounds like you continue to do great---and I'm so glad you get to have some time with the boys and get about some! 

Jo--how exciting to have a date set!!! That's lovely! Don't worry about the leaking---I've been at the same place! Even today, my panties are extra "moist". .. how gross! haha

blue bear---sorry to hear of your rough night---but maybe it's a good sign!


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## helena

Sounds like a good sign blue bear!
11 days Jo! Brilliant!!!!!

My postpartum hormones are starting to raise, am homesick. This happened last time, ended up sobbing each evening..oh the joys!? Still, have found emmerdale (uk tv programme) on YouTube from last night so I will waste some time watching that. Having an iPad etc in hospital is such a help!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so sorry you're sick again! NO FUN, but I'm glad you stayed home to rest and do what your body needs. I hope you feel better, and THEN baby can make his appearance :D

Helena, it sounds like you're doing great! I'm so impressed that you're only on paracetemol! I'd be begging for the strong stuff, especially with a cough :haha: Hopefully having your boys come for a visit will make you less homesick. The hormones afterward can b so tough! I remember last time a couple of days after DD was born I yelled at my Mom for how she was loading the dishwasher, and then sobbed uncontrollably when she got offended. Fun fun...lol. It will pass!

Jo, 11 days, YAY!! That is so soon! I wonder if you'll be next, or if someone else will surprise us?!

Blue_Bear, those all sound like good signs! Hopefully you're getting close.

I have to clean the house today, but have been putting it off all morning. I did 2 loads of the kids' laundry yesterday, but still need to wash my own and all of the new baby stuff. I SHOULD mop and vacuum, but I don't know that I'm up to it. Sigh... what I wouldn't give for a maid :haha: or at least a DH who helped clean!


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## helena

This time next week you can say "in 4 days!" Jo! Yaaaaaay.


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## Jo_Bean

We should update the front page Wamommy!!

Eeeeek! I think there will be at least more one born before my c section :thumbup:


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## wamommy

Jo_Bean said:


> We should update the front page Wamommy!!
> 
> :thumbup:

You're totally right!! I will do that tonight! 

DragonflyWing, what was the date the twins were born? I can find it, but feeling supremely lazy at the moment, haha.

Helena, yours was January 23? 

how exciting to start updating BIRTHS... EEEEKK :yipee: :yipee:

EDIT

Dragon, were your babies born December 19th? I better start writing things down!! I don't want to put the wrong birthdays down :dohh:


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## Kellen

This is so exciting watching everyone give birth (and I mean that in a metaphorically non-creepy way). I am emotionally a lot more stable tonight. DH is no longer mad that I made him go pick up his friend so that reduced a lot of stress.

I passed my instructor training practical presentation test today. I did lose my breath during one part due to a rather intense BH. I think the instructor just about passed out after class when I told him I'd been having minor contractions throughout the entire 1 hour period that I was presenting. This was after he mentioned that I walked around the classroom a lot more today... about that.

I can't believe that we are all getting so close! I only have 8 more days to work and not all of those will actually be at work. Tuesday I telework. Thursday we are throwing a going away party for my boss who accepted a new position. Friday the office is taking me out to lunch and probably throwing a small shower. The next week I will telework Tuesday again. Wednesday I have a meeting and then that is my last day! I guess I need to call and make appointments for the rug cleaning people to come...


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## helena

January 24. Thanks xxx
Up at 4.30 feeding :) she is a little pro. Amazing that she knows what to do, so pleased


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## DragonflyWing

Yes, the twins were born on December 19th :)


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## wamommy

The first page is updated! I can't wait to add more :D

Helena, thank goodness she's a good feeder! I'm crossing my fingers SO hard that I can breastfeed this time. 

Kellen, I'm glad you're having a better night tonight. Come on, 8 days, so you can just relax!

I just got home from a dinner out where I ordered a hamburger called "Burnin' Love." I truly am an idiot :dohh: It may be a long night! LOL


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## Jo_Bean

:haha: @ the hamburger! 

I'm trying to steer clear of spicy food and anything else that could make me go earlier than 5th! I have everything planned for that now :haha: I know she'll come before if she's ready but I'm trying not to encourage it!


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## Kellen

I just went a little crazy and cleaned the house. The last load of baby clothes is in the dryer. I managed to fold all the little clothes and organize her dresser. I also took stock of the diapers we have a realized that while we do indeed have diapers we don't have any wipes :dohh:. I've also registered online at a bunch of places that will apparently send free stuff or extra coupons. Now I think I will go make some sugar cookies...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--does that mean you are nesting!? I hear that's a really good sign! One of my friends said she cleaned her entire house, got everything situated for baby, etc., and that very evening went into labor! She told me that if I feel the need to nest, IGNORE it and rest, because she was so tired from all of the work that she did, she didn't know how she made it through labor! I'm not saying that will happen, but hopefully the nesting means that you're close! :thumbup:


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## Kellen

I hope so. I kind of want the baby to hold off until after Tuesday night. DH and I have tickets to see a Broadway musical (not on Broadway, but rather at the Fox Theatre here in Atlanta). I'd hate to waste my Christmas present. I have also concocted a new sauce for chicken over rice. My sugar cookies turned into maple syrup sugar cookies just because I saw it sitting on the shelf. Those are tasty... we'll have to see how the chicken turns out!


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## SierraJourney

Ooo yes---baby should wait until after Tuesday evening! :) I keep telling mine that it has to wait until after Monday evening, as that is our last child class (Monday's class is on baby care basics, which I think will help DH a lot since he hasn't changed ANY diapers in his life!). But, Sunday is supposed to be a full moon, and although I am not superstitious, I hear the labor wards fill up during a full moon! :thumbup: (When I was in L&D to be checked last week, it was EMPTY and quiet! I couldn't believe it! They said it was super unusual because they had only had two births for the last couple of days! The nurses actually looked BORED! Apparently that is highly unusual, so I'm suspecting it to be super full next time I go! :( But, I hope not, because if it's not full, I might have a chance at a bigger room!) :)


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## Kellen

Oh, I've heard the full moon myth as well. I hope that it isn't too busy when you go in and that you are able to get a big room.

Since we are scheduled for a water birth there are only three rooms that they use and they are all really nice and roomy. Thankfully my DH is #4 of 6 and has 20 nieces and nephews that he was around when they were babies. I think he has probably changed more diapers than I have. My only concern is the stump of the cord.

No contractions yet, but my feet are asking for a rest. I think I'll eat in the living room and pop in a movie. I have done my duty... besides putting clean sheets back on the bed. That needs to happen.


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## SierraJourney

Oh that's great Kellen! Yay for experienced Dh! I think you definitely deserve that rest and movie- enjoy!


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## wamommy

Sounds like nesting to me, Kellen :D

I've heard the full moon thing too, and wonder what would cause that? Too weird. I hope you make it to your show, Kellen! My Mom bought me tickets for Christmas to a Broadway Show here in Seattle, but she bought them for February 27th :dohh: DH told me, "you want to leave me alone with a newborn, a 3-year-old, and 4-year-old??" He kind of has a point, especially if I'm breastfeeding. In theory, the baby could only be a week or two old. 

I'm going to go walk the mall :D It makes me so tired, but I think it helps my hips and back at night. 

TMI question for you Sierra... How's your diarrhea? I still have it, and don't know why. If it was something I ate, surely it would be gone by now? If it was a sign of labor, surely I would be in labor? 4 days just seems like a long time. who knows...


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## helena

Hi all. My auntie died the same day Kiara was born. I just found out yesterday, my dad didnt want me to know yet. And unknowing, we called baby Kiara from Lion King, whose song and theme is "circle of life".. How fitting is that. 
Feeling quite sad, something so deep mixed up with post partum hormones is a bad mix, but thought I would share. Life really is amazing.

Have a good day all, rest! I managed 3 hours sleep last night...little madam has day and night mixed up...will fix that ASAP! 

Xxx


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy- does walking really help your back at night? I can't get comfortable at night because my back hurts so badly! Maybe I should get out and walk today ! My diarrhea has turned more to loose stool now... but definitely not the constipation I've dealt with the rest of the pregnancy! Is the clean out supposed to last a while? 

Helena, I'm so sorry to hear about your Auntie. That's so hard- but Kiara's name seems just perfect.And fitting. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: 

Dh and I dtd for the first time in over a week. I'm super crampy right now! I told Dh that he did a good job because I want this baby out! :haha:


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## Jo_Bean

Helena - sorry to hear about your auntie :hugs: but the circle of life couldn't be a more apt way to describe it. I'm sure she is watching in some form and is really happy for you and your family xx


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## helena

Thank girls.
And yay for being crampy Sierra!!! :)

I have another slight issue now. The inlaws. Remember we limited everyone's visits / stays as we are determined to do this OUR way? Well...the in,was moved their date t visit because Kiara came early. Wich is handy for helping with the kids while I am not home. BUT the haven't changed their return flights...so hope to be here for two weeks. Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrgh!
They are being nice saying that hey will do whatever we want, help out where've or give us space, but in the next breath mother in law tells my husband she would like t stay wo weeks as she doesn't get to see a lot of her grand children.
Aargh, emotional guilt. Don't need. I is about us not her. She may not mean to be mean but it makes it so hard for DH to say no...it will clearly upset her if we ask them to leave earlier. It is a stress we don't need. Really it drives me mad.
What to do....I could just toughen up sit it out...but two weeks! DH has three weeks off, I so hoped I would be quality bonding time. Nt stressful...
I just want my house to myself and my babies... My boys are high maintenance and full of energy and I don't like the pressure of Telling they should calm down and listen more. It's not fair on them really, its their home, boys will be boys and this is a hard time for them too so i shouldnt feel pressured..but I can't help but feel it when we have guests staying...like the pressure to keep a perfectly clean house, clean well behaved kids etc..
And things have been so stressful in the past with my FIL that he doesn't need to do much at all now to annoy me..


On a positive, i can probably go home tomorrow or Tuesday. :)


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## Jo_Bean

Oh Helena! I would be in exactly the same frame of mind :( it kind of feels like they have won by your little lady arriving early too! 

What does hubby think? Would he be comfortable telling them to either change their dates to go home or to keep all dates as they were?


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## Kellen

Wow, Helena. That is a super tough spot that they have put you in. I would continue on with normal routine and if they aren't pleased with how it works then they can leave. This has to be really difficult dealing with grief, a new baby and now the additional stress of company. Good luck!


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry to hear about your Aunt :hugs: :hugs: The timing is amazing, especially with Kiara coming unexpectedly early. Perhaps there is a plan we don't know about. Either way, I'm so sorry you're having to grieve right now :(

The in-law situation would drive me mad! I agree with Kellen that you should go about your normal routine and if they don't like it, pssshht. To expect you to keep a clean house, clean, well-behaved kids, AND look after a newborn is WAY too much. Perhaps talk to DH and tell him how much this is stressing you out. Maybe he has better ideas to deal with them without causing conflict? Oh, good luck, Helena.

Sierra, walking really seems to help me! During the walk it feels pretty awful, like my belly is going to fall off right as my back gives out, but I sleep better. For some reason I cramp up less. I also do some severely unattractive stretches before bed which seem to help. I got to the point where I would cry before bed time because I dreaded the night so much, so I've been trying anything that might help. 

Yay for cramping! I know DTD is supposed to help! I broke down and asked DH to DTD a few nights ago, and he was shocked. "you must REALLY want this baby out," he said... :rofl: He knows how uncomfortable and unattractive I feel, and was surprised that I would even suggest it. I'm not sure how much it helps, but at this point I'll try anything! (short of castor oil)


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## SierraJourney

helena, I agree with the others. However, I also think your DH needs to step up and make some clear cut decisions on when they can arrive/depart. This is not the time for them to be making the decisions about YOUR life!! I'd be furious if DH just let his mum make the rules about how long she stays to see the baby (which very well may happen, but I'm hoping I've said it enough times that he knows what boundaries to put into place). 

wamommy--I've heard marching up and down the stairs helps. . .so with every load of laundry I've done today, I've put an extra "march" to my step! :rofl: Ridiculous, I'm sure. .. but I want this baby out! 

I'm sitting here waiting for DH to come home. He was going out for a drink with a friend. I asked him how long he would be gone. . .he says--oh, an hour and half --two hours TOPS. Well, it's been THREE hours, and I just NOW get text-- "Sorry taking a bit". WTF!? I mean, I know time flies sometimes, but seriously---you couldn't text an HOUR ago to let me know?! And no indication about how long it would take---just "taking a bit". Maybe it's the hormones, but this just ticks me off! And, the fact that he said he was only going for ONE drink! There is no way that one drink takes three hours!! Arghhh. .. so now I'm deciding whether to brush it off, or be mad the rest of the night. . . :( Am I overreacting?


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## helena

Hi,
Thanks. Well they already arrived..
It's not that they expect a clean house or well behaved kids. It's just that I feel the need to provide them...if you get what I mean. I feel the need to make more of an effort with guests there. It is probably in my head..

But I kind of agree Sierra, but I do feel for DH..he did say no, it is too long, we had all agreed the length of stay, and yet still his mum heaped guilt on to him...not fair. dH is such a nice man, he won't want to upset his mum, who is very sensitive and cries easily..but what choose is left...I don't know..maybe I should just get on with it...so annoyed at DH being put in this position.

On a good note, baby just slept a whopping 2 hours ad 40 minutes in a row, at night!..she hasn't done that before. Haha, you know you have a newborn when 2h40 minutes is worth getting excited about!


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## Kellen

Helena - I feel you completely. My MIL is a very nice person, but she somehow has the ability to make DH feel guilty about _everything_. It drives me batty! Congrats on your little one getting over two hours of sleep.

DH decided that today should be picture day. He had a lot of fun doing belly shots and playing with filters and stuff. So here is just one of the pictures that he took this morning.

Had a bit of a freak out this morning and DH actually called the doctor's office. We got up, had breakfast and took a shower. As I was getting dressed I realized that my toes were completely number and I couldn't feel the tops of my very swollen feet. Talked to our midwife and she advised drinking at least two glasses of water and elevating my feet for two hours. If it hadn't gone away by then we were to go to the hospital for blood pressure monitoring. Thankfully it abated after about an hour and a half. She said she wasn't too worried as I said the baby was very active and I wasn't experiencing any headaches or blurred vision. It was still not cool. :nope:
 



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## wamommy

Sierra, I would be irritated too! I think that at this VERY difficult time for us, DHs should be exceptionally understanding. It's NOT the time to bend rules or take extra time away to have drinks. Hopefully you two worked it out, and I'm sorry it caused you stress :( 

Kellen, you look great! What a beautiful belly!! I don't know where in the heck the 40 pounds went!! You look all belly to me :D I have NONE of my bare belly... and I know I'll wish I did someday. With DD#1 I wouldn't let DH take any pictures of me at ALL. Once I went into labor I realized this was my only shot to have any pics of me pregnant. So the only pics I had were labor pics, where I look horrible and miserable!! You've inspired me to let DH take some tomorrow :D

Helena, what a tough situation! I remember you saying months ago that you didn't want to share your first weeks with LO... I'm so sorry it's not the ideal situation you hoped for. Ugh... families are wonderful, but so hard to please everyone!! I hope it gets sorted so that you get what YOU need too.

I went on a mild nesting frenzy today. I cleaned my whole bedroom top to bottom, including closet and drawers. I reorganized all baby clothes by size and put them in the appropriate drawers. I vacuumed the whole house and cleaned my computer desk! I'm so proud of myself, but totally exhausted. 

Sierra, I'll try your marching trick, haha. The mental image is pretty funny!


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## Jo_Bean

Kellen,, beautiful pic! I had a scare with my feet, it's crazy how they can just swell up like that! Water and elevating above your waist seems to be the best trick.

Sierra, Hope hubby isn't planning any more drinking sessions :trouble: 

Helena, that is really tough. Honestly, there's not much you can do and that would make me more angry. It's not like realistically, anyone is going to ask them to leave earlier than they plan to. It makes me so angry on your behalf. Everyone else seems to have an expectation of your baby, I've been experiencing this too, when to be honest, I'd rather not see anyone at all!

Wamommy, sounds like you've been really busy! Have a good rest today! You deserve it x


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## Blue_bear

That was a lesson I learnt last time...different with family though obviously. But I quickly realised baby would sleep beautifully while being cuddled and passed around, and you don't rest because your 'entertaining guests' then once they leave the baby comes to life and won't sleep for hours! This was just my experience obviously.... Lol. Will be restricting visitors this time for sure though and DH is well versed in what to say to get people to leave!
This is worth bearing in mind if your BF'ing as you probably won't want to do it in front of the whole world to start with.

Been up since 3am as my hips are so painful, it's like one big spasm and i could cry...my little man also has a bad cough so we all ended up getting up. 
MW later on, will find out if this young lady is the right way up or not!


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## helena

Thanks girls.
I am angry Jo. As you understand - and its so great you get me - It is the fact there is little we can do that really pisses me off. And this is our las baby, or last special first few weeks...I could burst with annoyance. It has happened too many times that we didnt get things our way...it happened with both babies previously, and even or wedding..
And I am so annoyed DH was put in this position - he can't win, upse his wife or upset his mum. Ether way he is feeling pretty shite. While i don't want it to be me tha is upset or loses out, I don't want some mega family drama now either....I just want them to realize and suggest they leave of their own free will. Why can't they see what is obvious!?! Blue bear, we were also restricting visitors, we made it very clear....the inlaws just found a way around the rules when baby arrived early and we asked them to come and help while I am in hospital...return flights earlier are expensive I am told..I will check! And tbh I don't care about more right now.
Am just going to see how it goes, but my hormones are high and it may be ...urm...interesting. I am going to focus on my family and just appreciate every second of being with the boys and baby girl....yes that's what I will do...I won't rise to the annoyance...(trying to coach myself here....I be it snt working!!! If it is really tough I will have to suggest they return earler...oh lord..least we live in different countries, I can avoid them after..)
Good news is I have passed my checks and doc agrees I can go home, just got to check baby with pediatrician first.Baby hadn't regained any weight b this morning, but they weighed her before and after a feed and she took plenty of milk, so they said so they are happy. Hopefully we will be home tonight. (Nervous though that my hormones and stress wont keep in check, I will be disappearing to the nursery a lot to feed and come online with my iPad!..so watch this space xx)

Good luck at midwife blue bear :)


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## Kellen

Helena - that is a terribly frustrating situation. We asked my mom to come out and help a week before our due date and then leave a week after the baby is born so DH and I will still have two weeks alone with the baby. However, due to the inconsistency of babies arriving on time she paid an additional $35 for flight insurance so she can change her flight whenever for no extra cost. Is this something that your in-laws might have thought of?


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## SierraJourney

helena, I'm so sorry about this whole situation! How awful! I hope they come to their senses, and your DH doesn't have to choose! Poor guy!

DH and I are all good now. . .so I'm happy. :) 

AND, my office just threw me a surprise baby shower! They had tons of food and all pitched in for some really nice gifts! We got tons of clothes, bath stuff, diapers, toys, and a full-sized baby swing! I'm so grateful and happy right now! :)


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## Jo_Bean

Oh Helena :hugs: I would be feeling exactly the same way. 

The only thing I can think of is that maybe you see how it goes and then after a few days be really honest with them and ask them to leave. Or suggest that they stay in a local hotel so that you can have some time to yourselves?


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## SierraJourney

How is everyone doing? It's quiet---hopefully you're all quiet because you are having babies! :)

Anyone else getting painful contractions once in a while? Last night I had about 4 really painful contractions that woke me up out of sleep, and I had to breathe through them and try to walk them off. They lasted maybe for a minute each. . .no consistent pattern. But dang, they hurt!


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## Kellen

I noticed that it has been quiet here lately... I too hope that a bunch of us are out having babies. Too bad that doesn't include me.

Unfortunately (fortunately?) none of the contractions I have felt so far have been painful at all. I have an appointment with the midwife today so I'm hoping that she'll do a check to see if I have effaced or dilated at all. I haven't really had any symptoms of labor being near at all. I am hoping it holds off until after the play tonight. After that I don't really care.

My boss (who just gave birth in August) told me that unless I find it absolutely necessary to go into the office I need to stay home and telework until the baby gets here and I'm on leave. Next Wednesday is my last official day so I will go in then. I'm at home today, but I have a meeting at work tomorrow, a party for my boss on Thursday and then the office is taking me out to lunch on Friday. I do, however, have permission to arrive late and leave early. Her reasoning is: "It will all even out in the end." Coolest supervisor ever!

Now I am off to take a shower so I don't look like I just crawled out from under a bridge for my appointment. Crossing my fingers that DH's boss will let him go an hour early so he can come with me.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--your supervisor sounds AWESOME! Wish mine were like that! Instead, on the cards for the gifts I received yesterday at the office shower, there were several statements written like 'Make sure to check your emails while you're out!' :dohh: But, they are letting me work from home, so I guess I can't complain! :thumbup:

Let us know what the midwife says! So exciting! :)


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## wamommy

Good luck at your appointment, Kellen :D Can't wait to hear how it goes. Also, enjoy your play! Are you seeing "the Music Man"?

Sierra, it has been quiet lately! I wish I could say I've been off having a baby :dohh: I've been in a bit of a funk the last few days, and sort of been feeling sorry for myself. I've been up all night every night with terrible back pain and tummy pain. I get up, stretch, take a shower, pace the house... and then try to go back to sleep, right as my 3-year-old gets up. I'm just so exhausted I could cry :( I don't know how I'm going to survive with a newborn. I will say, though, I am SOOO ready to have this baby out. I see the Dr tomorrow to find out if I'm progressing at all and will definitely tell her all what's been going on. I've also just NOW started retaining water. Until a few days ago I hadn't experienced it, but now my wedding ring is super tight and there's a horrible line where my socks cut into my bloated ankles. EEw.

OK, rant over... I don't want to be so negative! It's just one of those days.

Helena, are you home now? How is the situation? How is beautiful Kiara?

DragonflyWing, how are the twins? 

Jo, are you getting excited as your date gets closer? 

I hope everyone is doing well!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--that sounds exactly like what I've been going through! I think DH is sick of hearing me complain about it! He was even googling ways to induce labor today---just to get me to stop whining! :haha: Let me know what your doctor says about it! I have an appt tomorrow too, so I will ask as well .. but last time they just said "it's normal"! :(


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## helena

Hi girls, yes I got home yesterday and it has been a very mixed emotional time. Not really because of the inlaws, but some even more bad news. You may remember I learnt my aunt had died on the day Kiara was born. Well I thought that was bad enough but then the evening I got home (was it really only yesterday?) I got a call from my brother telling me my mum had got results of various scans. Turn out She has cancer in several places including her brain. That floored me. We all knew she had been unwell, maybe you remember she was meant to visit before Christmas but couldn't because of what we thought were panic attacks...turns out it is a lot more. I almost fell apart, especially because the post partum hormones are raging, but my little something wonderful, Kiara, was obviously meant to be here for a reason, to keep me busy and full of love.
Mum starts treatment tomorrow.

Sorry to be so doom and gloom, but that and tiredness is why I am quiet.
Good luck with the contractions Sierra!


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## wamommy

Yes!! Last time I asked my OB she just smiled and nodded, like I was making a big deal out of nothing. I just don't know how we can go into labor/newborn care being so exhausted already!


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## Kellen

We are going to see "The Producers." I found a 50% off deal in our local newspaper. So we are three seats back from the stage in the center. I am very excited.

Sorry to hear that you are having back and sleeping problems, Wamommy. That sounds absolutely miserable. 

And I too would love to hear updates about all the little ones that have already made their big debut into the world. I told DH last night that any time he felt like initiating sex please do because I want this child out sooner rather than later.


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena... I am so sorry :hugs: :hugs: I don't know what to say! I'm so glad you have Kiara to keep you occupied and hopeful. I wish I had better words... I'm just so sorry you're having to go through this.


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## Kellen

Oh, Helena, that is horrible news. I am so sorry for you. I wish we could all just give you a big hug and shoulder to cry on. Your little Kiara is something very special and at least gives you a warm body to snuggle with and take care of. I will keep you in my special prayers.


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## SierraJourney

helena---I am so so so sorry! :( :hugs: :hug: That is so incredibly hard! :( Sending thoughts and prayers your way. . .


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## Jo_Bean

This time next week my little lady should be here!

Oh no Helena, so sorry to hear the news. Sending love and thoughts to your mum and hoping that the treatment does it's job xxxx


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## SierraJourney

Jo--that is so incredible! Exciting to think it's that close!! Are you all prepared? How about everyone else---are you all prepared, or will there be last minute things you'll have to do? I keep thinking that I haven't washed any bottles (just in case for some reason I can't breastfeed), and I haven't tested the monitors out. I also have to put together the new swing my office got us. Not sure if any of that will get done before baby. . .but if not, DH will be busy when we get home with baby! ;)


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## helena

Here she is again, my little something wonderful that has made the family smile during this pretty dark week. She is a real angel..apart from the fact her days and nights are still a bit mixed up. So tired!

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_FCD6E18A.jpg

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_6FA99366.jpg


A funny thing happened when I walked in from the hospital yesterday..as my boobs have grown while full of milk and my chest was looking pretty busty my 2 year old walked up to me, pointed at my cleavage, visage above my vest top, and said "is that a bottom"? Haha. 
Yay for this time next a week Jo!!! Xxx


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## SierraJourney

:rofl: "is that a bottom?" :rofl: 

Helena---she is beautiful! So precious!


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## Blue_bear

So sorry to hear your news Helena :( xx your little girl is gorgeous though! 

I'm so jealous Jo, I'm so impatient it's terrible. 

I've had no more symptoms either really. Just leaky boobs and a tonne of discharge but nothing exciting...it's my birthday Sunday, she sure would make a good present!


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## wamommy

Helena, she is beautiful!! What a joy :D Hopefully she'll get her days and nights figured out!

I had a chuckle at your son's "is that a bottom" comment!! 

I'm in a world of pain today!! Starting to wonder if this is early labor? I never had this with either daughter. With them it was WHAM, and into powerful contractions. This time I'm just sitting here near tears, with what feels like a never-ending contraction. The underside of my bump and my back are screaming in pain. I would give my left foot for a few ibuprofen!! lol


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy--sorry to hear about your pain! If it keeps happening, TIME IT! Maybe it's the real thing!! That would be awesome! (Again, sorry for the pain, but hopefully this is it for you!)


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## Blue_bear

Maybe it is it Wamommy? Is there any you can call to ask? It's not fair for you to be in so much pain otherwise x


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## Jo_Bean

So gorgeous Helena! A proper little angel x

I think I'm about as ready as I'll ever be!!!


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## helena

Wamommy is this it? When Kiara was coming my contractions hurt mostly in my back and down just one side of bump. Praying baby is on his way!!!..they weren't continuous but maybe you ar further on? Get checked!..xx


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## helena

Sierra - we are still not yet organized and we have been home two days! Lol. Only just bought breastfeeding bras and a changing mat yesterday after little miss peed and pooped through a towel on my bed! But she has my boobs and a lot of love and blankets so she will be fine :)
The most useful thin I have is a breastfeeding pillow that doubles as a bean bag chair for her. She sits on it a lot and has even slept in it in her cot last night. So comfy and supportive. She only woke to feed twice! Yaaaaaaaaay!


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## SierraJourney

haha---thanks for the encouragement helena! I feel that I will be a bit unprepared, too---but glad to know it's perfectly okay and baby is content without all of the "stuff" in place! Glad to hear she slept so well last night!!!!

yes, wamommy---can't wait to hear if that was it for you!! Here's hoping you're snuggling a cute little baby right now (or shortly!)

Kellen---how'd your appointment go?

I have an appointment at 1p.m. today. . .I'm not expecting to hear anything different, but I told DH maybe she'll tell me I'm in labor somehow. . . lol :rofl: I know I'm not, but dang, I wish it were true! :)

I keep having dreams about labor, the baby, and breastfeeding. Surprisingly in the dreams, labor isn't that bad, but the breastfeeding is a nightmare every time! I always seem to dream that I am fumbling with baby, a breast pump hanging off one side, baby crying and not latching on on the other side, and not having enough hands to make everything work! DH says I'm too worried about breastfeeding---I definitely think I have some irrational fears! :haha:


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## Kellen

Morning Everyone,

Helena - your little girl has the longest fingers. She is just gorgeous. And you can't beat kids for the off the wall comments they come up with. That is just awesome.

Wamommy - I hope that this is it for you and that the pain ends soon.

My appointment went well yesterday. DH's boss would not let him off so it was the first time I had to go by myself. Every single person in the office asked: "Where is your husband?" followed by: "Why are you in the afternoon? You always have morning appointments." Midwife was happy with everything. Baby is measuring 38 weeks with a HB of 155. She told me to begin taking a natural supplement called "W5" that is like a super version of EPO to start contractions and get my cervix ready. Her husband wanted to take her out of town for Valentine's Day, but she had him book the trip for 2/28 so that she can be the one to deliver our little girl.

The play last night was funny. However, the first act was painful. I kept having contractions on top of a full bladder that was being punched by a vengeful baby. The second act was better as she was kicking up instead of down on my bladder. We didn't get home until 11:20 and I pretty much fell into bed.

Had to take DH to work this morning because we are having severe thunder storms and tornado watches/warnings. I really didn't want him out on his motorcycle in 40 mph wind gusts. So it took me 2 hours to drive to work. By the time I arrived I needed to pee so badly I was practically willing to murder people to get to the bathroom. Of course when it rains people completely forget how to drive and there are a million accidents. But even though I didn't get here until 9:20 I will probably be leaving around 2:00 so that I can A) get DH from work and B) not fall asleep at my desk. I cannot wait for next week...

I told DH that we can start trying to jump start labor by DTD any time. His response: "My leave doesn't kick in until the 9th. We won't have sex until then. I don't want her coming when I have to work." My mom comes in on the 9th... great... awkward...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---glad your appointment went well! Hopefully the new supplement will work! My midwives are more of the "wait and see" type. . .they don't suggest anything to start labor! I have to do all of the research on my own, and I feel that I'm taking the EPO "behind their backs" because they haven't suggested it. :haha:

I'd tell DH that since dtd doesn't make labor happen immediately, he needs to start before the 9th! Or if your mum is there, try to figure out quiet ways to do it---or run the shower while you're doing it! :haha: Good luck with that one!!


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## Kellen

My midwife is really cool. She asked me if I had started taking EPO, which I had, and if I had felt my contractions get any stronger. Honestly, I haven't. So she told me to head to the natural food store and pick up a bottle of W5, which has EPO and Black/Blue Cohosh which is supposed to be really good. We didn't have time yesterday, but I need to go grocery shopping anyways so I'll get some tonight.


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## SierraJourney

I heard Cohosh helps A LOT --that's what the health food store told me. . but I was warned against it unless your midwife prescribed it. :( Bummers!


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## Kellen

It is too bad that your midwife isn't take a more proactive approach. 

I think I'll send my mom to the grocery store when we need some privacy. She loves to shop for us... DH will just need to make it fast and snappy. Shouldn't be too hard since he hasn't been getting much lately...

Oh, and my MIL won't be able to make it to see us at all. Unfortunately my FIL was in a wreck yesterday. He drives a semi and hauls stuff for people. Well, a guy fell asleep at the wheel and hit my FIL's truck head-on. Thankfully neither one of them were seriously injured, but the truck is completely totaled. I'm sorry this happened, but it makes it easier for DH to accept the fact that his mom won't be here.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks---in a way, it's nice because she wants to do things so naturally, but at this stage, I really want help to go into labor! :)

Good idea about sending your mom on an errand! :)

Sorry to hear about your in-laws. . .I'm glad that makes things easier on your end, though!


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## SierraJourney

Just had my appointment. Again, as soon as she measures me, the midwife says---"wow! This is a good-sized baby!" She says he is really really long, and is guessing that he's EIGHT pounds already!! I requested that she check me even though they usually don't, so she did---I'm only 1 cm dilated, but 75% effaced and a really soft cervix. I know that doesn't mean anything, but you bet I'll be trying to dtd tonight to get this baby to come! :rofl: 8 lbs scares me! If he comes at the regular time, he'll be huge!!

I'm beginning to think wamommy is either in labor or having her little one----I feel like she'd be on here by now! ;)


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## Kim2012

helena congrats on having Kiara, she is gorgeous.

Sorry to hear the sad news about your mum.

Kellen sorry to hear about your FIL, 

Still trying to get organised. all I do is moan and groan as I am in so much pain...and ofcouse sleep on the couch becoz the bed is so uncomfortable!!!Not so many days for me as C-Sec is on Monday but have been down with a flu bug despite having the jab.DS brought the bug from sch.Now I am nervous about having a cough after a C-sec

Talk about being prepared I have my bag packed but cot bed is still in the hallway in boxes and the pushchair is yet to come:nope:!!! I blame DH and God knows I want to kill the mothercare people for delaying the deliveries

Good luck ladies not too long till all the babies are here!!!


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## Kellen

Congrats on your upcoming, Kim! That is so exciting to think that you'll be holding your little one in your arms come Monday.

Lots of excitement around here. I think we've had 4 tornadoes touch down so far. Lots of power outages. I think I'll leave a little early because traffic is bad. I managed to snag an extra weather radio from our supply closet so that will be going home with me. Thankfully we haven't had to fully activate or deploy.


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## wamommy

I'm sorry I haven't checked back in yet!! I WISH I was holding my little man, but I am unfortunately not quite there yet :(

I've had SO much pain that I've been sitting around crying, which is totally not like me. I finally went in to see the doctor today and she said I'm in "prelabor" which technically could go on for a while... ugh. I'm 4-5 cm dilated and 75% effaced, but my cervix is still behind the baby's head (posterior) which is causing so much pain, along with the baby's backward position. She says once the cervix snaps down where it should be (which could happen any time) I'll pop to 10 cm very rapidly. She said not to go far from home or the hospital, and to be prepared for a very fast labor.

The thing is, she told me all of this 2 weeks ago! The only new info is that I've dilated enough that it really could be any second that "real" labor starts. For now, all I can do is keep a heating pad on my back and wait it out. I'm both excited and a little scared, and just really can't wait to have this baby. DH is predicting tonight... I vote for tomorrow. My Dr. is going out of town for a week this Saturday, so I would LOVE to have him before then.

Anyhow, it sounds like things are getting moving with you too, Sierra! My Dr. told me the same thing, that baby is super long. I told her that was fine, as long as he has a small head :rofl:

Kim, only a few days to go!! Wooohoooo!! So we will for SURE have a couple of babies next week! I can't wait to hear about and see Baby Kim and Baby Jo!!

Kellen, take care of yourself! The weather sounds exciting, but scary too! The worst we ever get here is rain... and the occasional snow. Be safe!


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## Jo_Bean

Ooh I was starting tk get a bit exciting about checking this thread this morning! Sounds like it could be any minute though Wamommy! Sorry to hear it's so painful. I hope things all happen now, nice and quickly and you'll be holding him very soon xx


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## Blue_bear

Wow wamommy, they class 4cm as active labour here so you would have been taken in. Well done you on getting so far with no pain relief etc. hope the rest happens quickly for you!


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## helena

Woohoo wamommy, that is exciting that things are moving on!
Can't wait :)

Kim - I too have a cough and had it post c section. I won't lie, it bloody hurts. But the midwives insisted I couldn't burst anything and that although it hurts it won't do any damage. Which was some comfort. Make sure to tell the hospital so they can get you a suitable cough syrup though, I had one and I guess it helped, as I was suddenly able to cough up (sorry tmi) with less effort, so that helped reduce the times I coughed.

Midwife coming today to remove my staples. Usually they stitch you here but I had staples as it was my third and my skin was tough from scar tissue. Delightful.
Can't believe my angel has been here a week already. And what a week! Dfinately the most intense emotionally of my life.
Have justs been out for tea and croissants with two friends, without baby or any children. It's at a bakery just around the corner so I could easily come home if bab needed me. It was so nice to just chat with friends after such an intense week. M head feels like it may burst sometimes with all that is going on.
But through it all Kiara is a little gem :) she lost weight and hasn't gained yet which is a shame, and worries me a bit. she is now only 2.5 kilos, but hoping to change that in the next few days by pumping milk and giving her the breast plus some extra pumped milk from a bottle. Because she is so small I think feeding me tiring for her, so we will supplement her with bottle breast milk for a few days to give her a boost. The midwife's idea. She is like a tiny little doll.

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_73C26440.jpg


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## SierraJourney

Wow wamommy---you are so close! I'm surprised you aren't in more active labor with that dilation! I'm sorry for all of the pain, but hopefully he will be born soon and you'll forget all about it! :hugs:

helena--I'm glad you got out for a bit with friends! That's wonderful! And, as usual, Kiara is darling!! She looks so content in that picture! 

Is pumping going okay? All of my classes here told us to wait until 6 weeks until we start pumping because bottle will confuse baby? But my sister pumped right away and had no problems---and actually reccommends pumping right away in order to let DH help with the feedings. That's what I want to do, but the warnings scared me a bit! Are they just being overly cautious?


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## Kellen

Wamommy - that sounds very exciting. I hope that you get to meet your little man sometime today or tomorrow before your doctor goes out of town. I am praying, however, that I do not end up in your situation with days of pre-labor pain. I'd rather just get it over with. Like you and Sierra I have been told that I have a very long baby.

Helena - that sounds nice that you were able to get out of the house a little bit. Sorry that your little gem isn't gaining any weight, but I am sure that will change very quickly. At least you were able to escape for a little bit!

Can someone please remind me why I thought it would be a good idea to work up until next Wednesday? With all the commotion around here I really feel like I should be at home and in bed. Our governor has official declared a state of emergency for the two affected counties that were hit by tornadoes yesterday. This means that the office is practically empty because everyone is onsite helping with assessments. For some reason they aren't too keen on having a pregnant woman help... such is life. It means I'm stuck all alone writing boring grant letters and crunching numbers so that my supervisor isn't too overwhelmed next week.

I will say that I was very thankful that my little girl did not decide to come while we were in the midst of 40+mph winds. And I guess none of us were too affected by the full moon either. It is becoming more painful to sit as she is sinking lower, which is good, but geez! DH was kind enough to remind me last night: "You wanted this baby so now you have to deal with it." He said it jokingly, but that didn't prevent me from wanting to strangle him.


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone :D

No signs here but I am happy with that. I would like to get to due date so not rushing along yet :D

Love and hugs to all x


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## helena

Pumping isn't ideal sierra, but when needs must..
Midwife tells me it should be a short term thing, just to help her gain weight so she gets more energy to feed more herself.
I did the same with my first because I was so sore. He gained wight super fast. we stopped pumping t 6 weeks and he never wanted a bottle again.
I also did it with my second but he chose bottle over breast :( o I guess it depends on the child Sierra.

My midwife says to try to give baby the pumped milk with a syringe if I can and have the patience...we will see!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks helena! Let us know how it goes! 

Kellen---that does not sound fun at all! But glad you are okay after all of that bad weather! 

Hi Midnight! :)


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## Kellen

I work in emergency management so severe weather is like a treat for me! And yes, I probably could be classified as insane. The only disaster I absolutely despise are earthquakes. Looks like I'll be leaving work early today since the party has been canceled... only reason I drove in today.

Favorite comment of the morning so far: "You look miserable. I remember being pregnant. Do you feel like a beached whale when you try to roll over in bed?" :rofl: My response: "Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Thank you."


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness---that's hilarious! I've quite often gotten that comment "You look miserable"---oh thank you! That was EXACTLY the look I was going for!


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## wamommy

:rofl: People's comments can be pretty funny. I'm personally getting tired of the "no baby, yet?" or "still pregnant?" comments! I feel like saying, "Noooo, i already had him. He's at home. I just shoved this giant basketball under my shirt because I missed looking enormous!" :haha:

Helena, she is SO cute. I'm sure she'll start gaining soon. I'm so glad you were able to get out with friends for a bit! You deserve it, especially after such an intense week.

I'm still hanging on! We went to the mall last night and walked laps. All it did was make me tired, lol. The kids liked it, though. We go there so often to walk that all of the mall's employees know them. They get chocolate at See's, tea at Teavana, the lady at the Justice store gives them Hershey Kisses, and another guy gives them suckers. No wonder they love going there! I wish I were 4 and cute :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---that's so cute! Glad your kids get to do that! As far as walking, my midwife told me that the only thing it helps is to build stamina for labor--she told me it won't help me go into labor. I told DH if it doesn't help bring on labor--then I am not wasting my time! :rofl: So, I've just been doing to EPO and sex. (And a bit of marching. . .lol. . .just for the sheer hilarity of it.) :) 

As I type this, my belly is one hard lump with all of the prelabor contractions going on. . .nothing timeable and nothing that lasts. . .sooooo frustrating. I'm so uncomfortable that I keep my door shut at work to avoid snapping at people! Watch out for grumpy pregnant lady!! :haha:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Anyone else bombared with messages from people asking? Im not even over due yet!


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## wamommy

Haha Sierra! You're allowed to be grouchy. When is your last day at work?

Midnight, I've been getting a TON of emails and texts about the baby. The first one always says, "any news?" or "is baby here?" Once I answer no, it's always followed by "do you have a name yet?" That one causes massive stress! We don't have a name yet.... eeeeek! What do you guys think of the name "Baby"? :rofl:


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## Kellen

I took the rest of the day off work. My little one has decided to settle in on my sciatic nerve. I love the feeling of my leg being on fire...

And yes, I had someone yesterday (at work) tell me they thought I'd already had the baby so why did I still look pregnant. :dohh: I still have two weeks to go, and I'd be happy having her on her due date. I did, however, begin taking Black Cohosh today to try to get more practice contractions going on.

That stinks that DH won't compromise with you on a name. Good luck!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--my last day at work is the day baby comes! lol . . .soooo. .. hopefully he comes SOON! (This isn't mandatory, but what I chose because I only get 6 weeks maternity leave --where I'm working half days from home---so I didn't want to use them on only me---I want to be with baby as much as possible! ) I am going to take about a week or two vacation before I do half days from home. . .so that'll hopefully help the adjustment a bit. If it weren't for finances, I would quit work and only be a mommy. . .It would be wonderful. . . . :cloud9:

Kellen, let us know if the cohosh helps increase contractions!


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## Kellen

Good Morning Everyone,

Happy Friday! I am so glad that this is the end of the week. Only one more day of coming into the office to finish things up next Wednesday.

I am going to unabashedly brag on my DH for a moment. Last night he opened his email (which happens not all that often, normally it is me). However, I had sent him an article on how dad's can be supportive during BF. He then asked me to sit down and we spoke about how we want to share responsibilities, but be supportive of each other. DH then went on to read a couple of more articles and eventually created a birth plan for us (even though the nurses said they read them maybe 15% of the time). Still it was sweet and awesome. Anyways, I think my DH is a great guy and is really taking all of this seriously... except when I asked for a foot massage. That lasted for maybe 10 seconds...

So far the cohosh hasn't really brought on any stronger contractions. I've only taken 3 doses so I suspect it probably needs time to get in my system. My co-workers are taking me out to lunch today, but I forgot to bring any snacks and now I'm hungry. DH cleaned out all the change from the car so I can't even raid the vending machine... such is life. Maybe I'll go see if there aren't some snacks left over from the non-party yesterday...


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## SierraJourney

Aww Kellen--that is so sweet of him! What a good guy! :)

Have fun at your lunch today! I am also going out with a couple of ex-coworkers today. . .to catch up. Seems everyone wants to get together before baby comes! ;)


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Have fun at your lunch today! I am also going out with a couple of ex-coworkers today. . .to catch up. Seems everyone wants to get together before baby comes! ;)

It's the opposite with me! Everyone is in "wait to see what happens" mode, and only contact me by text or email. 

Kellen, how sweet of your DH! It's awesome that he wants to be so involved :D

I woke up with the world's fattest fingers!! My wedding ring won't come off :blush: Come on, baby! I am literally about to EXPLODE.


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy! Hopefully soon!! When do you see your doctor again?


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## wamommy

Not until Wednesday, lol. I just can't believe I'm still pregnant! I suppose maybe it's a good thing? Maybe my body knows something that I don't know. He'll come when he's ready, I'm just getting so impatient! I've already passed how far I went with either DD!!

My OB leaves for a week Saturday (tomorrow), so it looks like she'll miss this birth as well! This is baby #3 and she's missed every one :haha:


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## SierraJourney

I can't believe you're still hanging on being that far dilated! I'm a bit jealous of your dilation! :haha: 

Sorry to hear that your OB is going to miss this one as well! That's sad!! 

Are you still having contractions?

Everytime I go to sleep at night I always have this feeling that "tonight will be the night!", then get disappointed when I wake up and nothing happened! :haha: I know he'll come when he's ready, but mommy is sure ready! :)

I've gotten to the point where I can barely sit and watch tv anymore because it hurts when I lay on the couch, sit on the couch, lean on the couch---anything! Just pain! It's so hard to get comfortable anymore! I keep telling myself that these things are all preparing for him to come, but it seems like enough agony has come that he should be here! ;) 

I've become quite the complainer lately! :) Aww well. . .I plan on cleaning my house this weekend---I've had so many people say they are stopping by after baby is born that I want to make sure that everything is clean-looking for all of the visitors! Maybe the cleaning will help him come! (My sister swears that if you mop your floor by hand on all fours, it helps baby come!) :)


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## Kellen

Sierra - I tried that last weekend and my little girl hasn't budged. Maybe I will try steam cleaning the floor this weekend!

Wamommy - I too cannot believe that you have yet to have your little guy.

Speaking of dilation... I had to walk half way down to the other building to exchange physical pieces of paper with one of the secretaries who has been helping me get all the grant letters sent out. As I was walking she yells (from a good 50 yds away). "How far dilated are you? Since you're walking like that you've got to be a couple cm." Really? Is it ever polite to ask about someone's cervix in public? You are not related to me and you are not my OB. Have I asked you when the last time you and your husband had sex? It pretty much amounts to the same thing...


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## SierraJourney

:rofl: that's soooo funny Kellen! I can't believe she asked that! haha


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## Kellen

I was shocked! I couldn't even come up with a snarky response at the time. I mean, really, who asks that? My brilliant response was: "Um, I don't know. They haven't checked yet?" Complete with making it sound like a question. Then I mentally face palmed.


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## helena

Hahaha Kellen!


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## wamommy

Sierra, contractions have stopped here, so I'm really in a wait and see game! I feel the same way you do. Every time I go to bed I expect to wake up to contractions. So far, nothing! I completely sympathize with the discomfort, though! I can't sit on our couch because it's too "squishy," and once I get in I can't get out. :rofl:

LOL about the dilation question, Kellen. It is amazing how personal people get when you're pregnant. 

I might try cleaning the kitchen floor! I've heard it's a great way to get baby to turn to an optimal position too, since LO is back to back. We'll see if I can muster the energy!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Feel you and the too squishy couch. I had to have DH pull me out of our glider because it reclined itself and would not let me out. He stood there laughing as I was complaining that the chair had eaten me.


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## wamommy

:rofl: That mental image is priceless, Kellen!

I'm up late afraid to go to sleep again :( Nights are so hard! My 4-year-old was invited to her first birthday party tomorrow, so I'm actually hoping baby doesn't come tonight. She actually told me she wants this little boy to be her boyfriend.... Say what????


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## helena

Wamommy - I actually did clean the kitchen floor the day before I woke to my waters haing broken! Get tha mop out!

Bless your daughter and her boyfriend request. My 4 year old wants to marry me! Or his friend Ben. Which I explained was ok, but they wouldn't be ale to make their own baby, at which point he grudgingly said "ooh, ok then, I'll marry Ruby" (a friends daughter who wants to marry him). It's all such a serious decision when you are 4! Lol xxxx

Am almost at my wits end with the inlaw visit and we still have until Thursday...,have shed lots of tears and refused to eat at the table dinner party stylee a few evenings..am like a surly teenager!lol last night they sat at the table, wine,steak, chit chat. I sat on the sofa with baby and a cheese sandwich and tv. Just How i need it. God knows what they think...I saw FIL glance over like "why isn't she sitting with us??"..
DH admitted yesterday when I was in tears about feeling suffocated in our own house tha he didn't know what t do. I feel for him. 
The end is almost in sight I guess...
Feeling pretty down about my parents not being able to visit, the doctors won't allow mum to fly, all things considered :( trying to get passport ASAP so I can fly back to uk with baby once she is 2 months old maybe.

Life as a mum to a newborn again is pretty brilliant though, it is incredible how much you love this tiny creature you only just met :)


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## Kellen

Today I have completely forsworn wearing shoes. I think I am also going to give up sitting unless absolutely necessary. Last night it felt like I had pulled every single muscle on the right side of my groin. Thankfully it went away once I laid down, but if I sit (even for 5 minutes) the pain comes back. So today is a lazy day with me lounging and doing light laundry.

I have had a couple of strong contractions, but nothing that was painful since beginning the Cohosh as recommended by my midwife. I am hoping that it is helping and I'm going to keep on drinking my raspberry leaf tea.


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## wamommy

Helena, I love how you handled the marriage questions with your son! It IS very serious when you're 4!! I asked DD "what if when you ask to be his girlfriend he says no?" SHe smiled and said "oh, he won't." What confidence!

I'm so sorry your inlaws are wearing you out :( I can imagine it feels suffocating, and I'm so glad you only have until Thursday. It's wonderful that you're taking the time you need with LO though. I can't wait to feel that new bond again! Right now it's WAY too easy to forget why we're doing all of this, and it's so nice to have you here to remind us. Oh ya, we get a BABY out of this... haha... eventually, anyhow.

We better all get to cleaning the kitchen floor!


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## Blue_bear

Wamommy, your doing so well to still be hanging on and be upbeat about it! Think I've have killed someone by now! Fingers crossed not much longer!

It's my bday tomorrow, best present ever would be a baby!!

So sorry to hear its rough with your in laws Helena, I think your doing amazingly to be as civil as you are being. I'd have locked myself away!

Jo, are you around? Are you ok?


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## Jo_Bean

Yeah I'm here! :wave: I'm checking in. Keeping myself busy and occupied to pass the time! 3 more sleeps!! Getting a little bit nervous now though :shock:

Hope you have a great birthday Blue bear!!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--I hear you on how hard the nights are! I'm exhausted today because I was up EVERY hour on the hour because of painful contractions! I was so excited because they were coming so evenly every hour, I thought for sure they would get closer together---but come morning, I woke up with no more contractions. :( So, a night without sleep for NOTHING! :( I don't understand why it gets so painful at night! 

I understand the sitting thing, too, Kellen--for some reason, sitting makes me have Braxton Hicks. . . argh. :(

Helena---I'm so sorry to hear about the in-law situation! That is so hard and exhuasting! I think if you want to sit on the couch by yourself with the baby, then go ahead! It's your house, you just had the baby---you go ahead and do whatever you darn please! :thumbup:

I hope your birthday goes well Blue bear---and I hope you get that birthday present you want!! :cloud9:

Jo---it's coming up so quickly for you!! I'm so excited!!!

As for mopping the floors. . .today I am flat out of energy! I cleaned up the downstairs---which had exploded with new baby stuff.. cleaned the kitchen, and I have done two loads of laundry.. . once that laundry is done, I'm getting in pjs and laying on the couch! Maybe tomorrow I'll have ambition to clean the floors. . . :flower:


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## helena

Oooh not long Jo!! Wooooohoooooo!!! Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
9 days post op yesterday and we all went to the museum as a family of 5. Very pleased with my recovery. Random strangers were cooing over tiny girl in my baby carrier like she was a museum exhibit., lol. Very proud mummy.

Sounds like your time could be soon Sierra!! Xx


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## Jo_Bean

Happy birthday Blue bear!

Wamommy - any news? 

Sierra - I find sitting down uncomfortable too at the moment. I wriggle about and can't get comfortable. I could lay in bed all day really if it weren't so boring! Mostly I enjoy a nice bath, it seems to help the best. 

Helena - that's great! Is that the first outing since the op? Sounds wonderful to get out of the house and show off your little princess! 
I would have done the same about sitting on the sofa, kind of like a small protest and victory over their thoughtless stubborn. You have to take those small wins, to make yourself feel better :hugs:

I have woken up this morning feeling like I could eat an entire house! Starving!


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## wamommy

Happy Birthday, Blue_bear! I hope you get completely pampered today!!

Jo, I can't believe it's so close! I can imagine you're super excited! (probably some serious nerves in there too)

Helena, the day at the museum with your whole family sounds amazing :) It must be so nice to get out of the house and other people admire your gorgeous LO.

Sierra, it sounds like we're at the exact same point. I was up all night last night with contractions. At one point I thought they were becoming regular and started trying to time them, but then they went all wonky again. I really thought this morning was it! I simply can't believe I'm still pregnant. I'm trying really hard not to be totally grouchy, but it's getting really hard. All I can say is, this labor better be fast! I can't imagine going through all of this and THEN a long, hard labor. 

I'm off to church. I'm not feeling up to it. It's too early and I'm feeling bleh, but this may (hopefully!) be our last chance to go for a while. I probably won't bring anewborn because of all of the coughing/germs... :haha:


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## Blue_bear

Thanks ladies. Have been busy decorating today lol. I am just desperate to keep busy, decorated the bathroom this week and started the kitchen yesterday. All with a toddler running about, I must need my head testing!


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## Kellen

Happy Birthday, Bluebear!

Jo - that is so exciting. Only a couple more days and you'll actually get to hold your precious baby. I'm a bit jealous that you actually know when.

Sierra and Dragon - I too had painful contractions last night. DH put in a movie (which I fell asleep to), but kept waking up during because of the contractions. They never became regular and really didn't last all that long, but they were super annoying. Started having period type pain today in church as well as a rather ouchy contraction. I am hoping that this is the beginning of something..., but I'm not really counting on it.

We did quickly hit up the baby store on the way home. Our poor little one has a million receiving blankets, but no just snuggly ones. It took us forever to find one because they all seem to be made out of the same material as DH and I's bathrobes and couch throw. Normally this would be okay, except for the cat believes that anything made out of the microfleece material belongs to her. We won't want to confuse her by bringing a baby in wrapped in the same feeling material, it just wouldn't be fair or nice. So now our baby girl has a nice blue blanket with puppies on it. lol I shot down the frogs and pink butterflies.

I also realized yesterday that we have a good stock of diapers, but absolutely no wipes. Awesome! So we also picked up a big box of wipes for $10. Then I made DH go buy me a milkshake.


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks! I was thinking that I don't know how I would be coping right now if I had a potential 4 more weeks to go! They let you go to 42 weeks here. But then I perhaps wouldn't be as big as I am now if I didn't have a giant baby that they need to get out early! 

I do quite like knowing, but at the same time, I'm really nervous!!!!!


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## SierraJourney

Happy Birthday Blue Bear!!!

My DH woke up this morning and says: "What, no baby!?" He's getting tired of waiting too. . . I just got done with 2 hours of cleaning floors! I told DH that if that doesn't make baby come, then nothing will! :haha: As with anything physical I do, my bump has gone rock hard and has been like that for an hour now. . .I'm hoping it's my uterus pushing this baby out! :haha: 

I was going through our diapers yesterday, and realized that with what we had bought and gifts from people, we have over 450 size ONE diapers! I'm not sure how long baby will need that size, but it seems excessive to me?

helena---the museum sounds wonderful! That's so great that you feel so good after such a short time post op!


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## wamommy

Oh, ladies... I'm so frustrated!

I've been having contractions all night. I just started timing them a little while ago (10:00 pm) and have been having them every 10 minutes for almost 2 hours. I am beyond tired and SO frustrated! I just want to sleep, but they're too painful. This is incredibly different from my other two babies, and I'm at my wits end. I think I'll try to shower and lie down and hope to sleep a little. I just wish they'd either turn into REAL labor or go the heck away... :cry:

Sorry :( Vent over!

Sierra, and new contractions for you? I hope cleaning the floor gets things going!

Jo, almost there!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy - can you take a bath? It's supposed to help with the pain xx


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## wamommy

I wish I could take a bath! That sounds SO nice. We have one of those big jacuzzi tubs, but bought a tiny hot water heater to save money on power... The combination means we can only get enough hot water to fill the big tub about 3 inches full!! It's incredibly annoying, lol... A shower still feels lovely, though. DH just put a couple contraction timer apps on my phone :) He seems awfully cheerful! I think he thinks this will turn into labor.


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## Jo_Bean

Oh bless you. That is like seeing a massive chocolate cake and being told not to eat it! 

Bless him for getting the contraction timers! How exciting!


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## Kellen

So... my waters broke about two hours ago. Contractions are incredibly irregular, which is annoying me. Anyways, I decided to get up and do a load of laundry. DH is snoozing on...


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## Blue_bear

Wow!!! Go Kellen! I hope things pick up soon x


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## Kellen

Blue - Thanks! I have been trying to walk around and just got out of a nice shower. Of course the next contraction hit as I was drying off... It couldn't be nice and come while I was basking in the warmth of the shower. I think I will try to go lay down and see what happens.

Wamommy - I am sorry that you are in so much pain. I hope that your little man decides to make his debut sooner rather than later.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---no regular contractions for me. . . just random ones throughout the night. I cleaned the floor for nothing! ;) Except that my house looks wonderful now! :) I hope your contractions get closer together and this is it for you!!

Kellen---that's awesome! It'll be soon for you, then, as they don't like people to wait long after their waters go! YAY! Congratulations! I hope contractions become regular!! 

This is so exciting you guys!! I can't wait for all of the new babies to come! 

Did anyone lose their mucus plug? I haven't heard anything from any of you, and I haven't seen mine! 

Looks like my baby is still simmering in there. . .I hope after hearing that you guys are progressing, he decides to become regular! :)

I'm getting a ton of questions at work---" you still here?" "No baby?" "Wow, you're so big". . . yeah, I know! I've been thinking the same thing all weekend! ;)

About 5 minutes ago, I sneezed and wet myself a little. . . at work. . . it's not bad enough to go home and change, and thank goodness I had a pad on. . .but it could have been extremely embarassing! :rofl:


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## Midnight_Fairy

No signs at all for me lol il most likely be last but happy to make it another week yet


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## Jo_Bean

Just to update you lovely ladies, my waters broke at about 10am this morning and I've been in hospital since. They have brought the section forward so I am how ing up in about 15 minutes and should be meeting her very soon!!


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## SierraJourney

Jo!!! That's so exciting!!! Congratulations!! Good luck!!


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## Blue_bear

I'm so jealous Jo! Good luck Hun!


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## Midnight_Fairy

So excited jo x


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## helena

Oh Kellen! Oh Jo! Babies babies babies!!, yaaaay! Go girls.
Kellen, don't wait too long, go get checked if testers have gone? Maybe you are giving. Ith right now!...

Oooh so exiting!

Jo, so funny our scheduled c section babies decided to come early! Clearly trouble makers.


Can't wait for updates xxxxxxxx


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## Kellen

Congrats, Jo! So exciting to think that we might have little ones with the same birthday.

Called my midwife this morning. Went in and was monitored for 20 minutes. Contractions were at 7 mins for 90 sec a piece. Alternate midwife did and internal and I'm at 3cm and 100% effaced! Woot! Then I was sent home.

Our normal midwife called and said she is very excited. I was given permission to eat anything I want and to stay active and/or take a nap. The nap sounds pretty good to me. I'm to call her back once the contractions are around 5 min apart. I can go up to 48 hours without giving birth since my waters have gone, but only 24 if I want a waterbirth. Come on baby, hurry it up!


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## SierraJourney

Exciting Kellen! How are you feeling?


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## Kellen

I am super excited! Also, since you asked earlier I have been loosing chunks of my plug since my water broke this morning. I've also had a slight pink tinge to my discharge, but was assured that it is all normal. I just finished scheduling all the monthly bills to be paid out until March based on our paycheck schedule for this month. That way I won't have to worry.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! :thumbup: I'm glad you are excited---and nice that you are getting some chores done! Good thinking! This all is happening so fast---I can't wait to see pictures of all of the beautiful babies! And I'm hoping I'm not far behind all of you! ;) 

wamommy--how are you doing?

Dragon---how are you?


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## helena

Oooh brilliant stuff Kellen!
My waters were pink which scared me a bit, but the midwife assured me it wasnt anything to worry about.


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## Jo_Bean

Olivia May was born at 16:03 uk time weighing 8lbs 13oz with loads of dark brown hair!

We're good, she's being monitored in NICU as a precaution because of the talipes, diabetes and the fact that some c section babies have a bit of fluid on their lungs but all looks really promising. 

Any news Kellen?


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## Midnight_Fairy

Congratulations lovely xx


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## SierraJourney

Congrats Jo!!! What a beautiful name! I hope you are recovering well!


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## Jo_Bean

Recovery is going well so far xx

Here she is

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/DDE01FF3-BFD9-4163-BBCA-E785F7906FA4-4779-0000058754E812AC_zps72974d2e.jpg

https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jojocoombe/3002474E-3B06-4B97-9C97-9C22869EF3D0-4779-00000580C2A59551_zps366a089a.jpg

My waters were pink too and they just didn't stop coming! Totally embarrassing, dribbling down my leg every time I stood up! Awful! But who cares when you get one of these at the end of it!!


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## SierraJourney

Awww so precious Jo!! Love the hair!!


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## munchkinlove

congrats jo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! she is sooo cute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Blue_bear

Congratulations Jo, she's beautiful xx


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## helena

Jo she is adorable! What weight? Looks chunkier than my little girl, Olivia has such adorable cheeks! You must be very in love. Happy recovery.xxx

Does she have surgery on her feet soon? Best of luck.
She is a cracker! Xxxxx


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## Blue_bear

Hmmm. Can't decide if my contracx are the real thing or not...been on and off since this morning but they have hung around all day which is unusual. They are about every 10mins ish at the mo but not lasting that long. They feel different to BH. What's throwing me is they don't hurt?!


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## SierraJourney

How are you doing Blue Bear? It could be the real thing, or could just be Braxton Hicks? I get them all day long, and sometimes as much as 2 minutes apart---I've been monitored for them and everything, and my midwife said if I can walk and talk through them, they aren't the real thing? How are yours feeling?

wamommy and Kellen---any babies yet? 

helena and Dragon--how are your little ones doing?

Jo, I hope recovery is treating you well and you are getting a lot of snuggles with your little cutie!

I'm hanging in there. . .sleepless, in pain, grumpy. . . :haha: I woke up crying last night because I was in pain. . . my next appt isn't until Thursday. . . I just can't wait to join the baby-mamas in our group soon!


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## Blue_bear

Still having them on and off. It feels different to my normal braxtons because I can feel it starting in my back. Just had a bath, had a couple in there but still not painful. Have read that some women experience little pain until 'active' labor or waters go....who knows!


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## Kim2012

Congrats Jo


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## wamommy

Baby Marc is here!!!

The contractions Sunday night stayed mild and spread out, so I went to bed. I woke up at 4am with a strong contraction and when I went to the bathroom I had bloody show (sorry, tmi). The contractions stayed 10 minutes apart and fairly mild, but I woke DH at 5am anyway, because I felt like it was time. We arrived at the hospital at 6:15am and I was 7cm. They decided to admit me, and by the time I was in my own room I was 8-9, and within a half hour I was completely dilated. I pushed through 3 contractions, and out he came! His shoulders were briefly stuck, but once he came out he was PERFECT. He looks just like my husband :D

Little Marc was born at 8:21am February 4. He was 8lbs, 4oz. We're home and waiting on Grandma to come entertain the girls so I can sleep! I have to say, this was my most painful labor by far. He was posterior, so my back felt like someone was ripping it out with a screwdriver! Even DH said (right before I started pushing) "if we have another one, why don't we try an epidural?" LOL 

I'll upload pictures later, once DH puts them from his camera to my computer.

And congrats, Jo!!!! Olivia is absolutely beautiful!!

Kellen, any baby news? We may have THREE February 4th babies :rofl:


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## Blue_bear

Well done Wamommy!!


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness!!!! Congratulations wamommy!!!! That's so exciting!!! Can't wait to see pictures! Glad you are doing well!


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations Jo and wamommy! So happy for you!

Kellen, baby must be here by now right? Can't wait to hear from you!

The twins are doing well...I think Gunnar must be over 7lbs by now, and Lilja is likely near 6. She's not as good an eater as he is, so she's growing slower.
 



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## SierraJourney

Glad the twins are doing well Dragon! Hope you are good too!


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls. I've just put a massive update in my journal if you want to know the latest around how Olivia is doing. But not bad xx

She was 8lbs 13oz Helena!!! So a chunky monkey!!

Congratulations Wamommy!!!! :wohoo: it's all really happening now for everyone!!!


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## helena

Wamommy - congratulations on Marc's arrival! Well done super mum! Xxx


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## Kim2012

Baby Brianna is here. Born 4 th Feb. weighing 8 lbs 15 oz= 4.06 kgs

Am on my mobile still in the hosp... Pics to follow soon


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## Kim2012

Wamommy!!!Congrats on Marc's arrival


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness! You're all having babies! Congratulations Kim!!! Can't wait to see pics!


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## helena

Oh Kim too! Wow so many pre due date!! Congratulations Kim :) beautiful name xx

Come on Sierra, put some effort in ;)


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Oh Kim too! Wow so many pre due date!! Congratulations Kim :) beautiful name xx
> 
> Come on Sierra, put some effort in ;)

Haha---I'm trying helena! :haha: My midwife did sweeps on my sisters a week before their due date---so I'm hoping I'll get one tomorrow at my appointment! :) But part of me is convinced since all of you are going early that I will be the one that goes two weeks overdue! :( I sincerely hope not, though! :wacko: But I am so happy to see all of your beautiful babies! It helps build my excitement for my own!


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## Blue_bear

My contractions turned to nothing so I'm still here waiting impatiently lol.


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## wamommy

Congrats, Kim!! How exciting :D 

Sierra and Blue, hang in there! I know that's annoying to hear,since I'm sure you're both SUPER ready to evict your tiny tenant. Fingers crossed that it's soon!

We're all still calling baby "Baby" or "Brother," because we're waiting to see what nickname jumps out at us. Marc is DH's name, and after seeing the baby he wanted to name him after himself. I'm totally ok with that, since the baby looks JUST like him, and we didn't have any other ideas! :haha: But the deal was that we'd get to know the baby and then call him something that fits his personality. Here he is! He looks way more than 1/4 Japanese! My girls are both blonde, so the dark hair was a shock!
 



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## SierraJourney

wamommy---he is gorgeous! Oh so exciting!! I think it's cute that your DH wanted to name him Marc! How are you feeling?

I'm hanging in there. DH is torn--he wants to meet baby so badly right now, but also thinks it'll be nice to have another weekend to ourselves! :haha: I think he is realizing very quickly that things are never going to be the same! I, on the other hand, although I would love time with DH, am anxious to get these chubby little feet out of my ribs! :)


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## wamommy

Haha, I'll bet, Sierra! 

I'm feeling surprisingly ok. I only had a minor tear this time (yay!) so that's great. The only ouchie thing is the after pains. Apparently they get worse with each baby, and I'd have to say that's true. It feels like early labor pains still! They sent me home with vicodin, but it gives me a big headache. I'm just loading up on Ibuprofin and waiting it out for a couple of days.

Any news from Kellen?


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## Midnight_Fairy

SierraJourney said:


> wamommy---he is gorgeous! Oh so exciting!! I think it's cute that your DH wanted to name him Marc! How are you feeling?
> 
> I'm hanging in there. DH is torn--he wants to meet baby so badly right now, but also thinks it'll be nice to have another weekend to ourselves! :haha: I think he is realizing very quickly that things are never going to be the same! I, on the other hand, although I would love time with DH, am anxious to get these chubby little feet out of my ribs! :)

:) me too. I am a bit fed up but dont mind another week! Xx


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## SierraJourney

Ooo--the afterpains don't sound fun at all! I'm glad you're okay other than that!


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## Kim2012

Here is my Lil Brianna. 

We doing well and c section recovery isnt that bad. Still in hospital

Goodluck to everybody who is yet to deliver their babies
 



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## helena

Two very beautiful babies there girls, well done!!

Wamommy, my after pains when feeding baby were horrendous too. So so awful. Having never gone through full labor I can't compare them to anything, I just know they were awful, I wonder if there were worse after a c section? Maybe it makes sense that they could be worse if there is a big incision there in the uterus. 
If not and it is only like early labor then you girls who give birth we so tough! Xx


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## wamommy

What a beautiful baby, Kim! I love those chubby cheeks :D

Oh Helena, I can't imagine how after pains must feel with a csection incision! It makes me cringe just thinking about it. I know it's what is best for the body to go back to normal, but OUCH! 

Marc's face is changing today! I think he was super swollen from the fast birth, because today his eyes aren't as puffy. It's amazing watching him and thinking that just a couple of days ago he was inside. What a cool thing childbirth is! I'm feeling proud of my body today, despite the large marsupial pouch I'm sporting :dohh:


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## Jo_Bean

Congrats Wamommy and Kim!

More gorgeous babies!!


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## munchkinlove

congrats wamommy and kim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they are sooooooo cute!!!!!!!!!!!:happydance:


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## helena

I know wamommy, each time it happened and I was wriggling my legs in agony. Kept telling myself t sans making me thin and beautiful! Lol.

Inlaws left this morning, my home is my own. Yaaaay! And Kiara is 2 weeks old today :)
Midwife due a home visit any minue, hoping Kiara has put on some weight, she isn't gaining as fast as they would like, probably because she was 3 weeks early. Fingers crossed I have fattened her up a bit by now..pumping and feeding direct at the same time is hard work. I don't always pump in the night as I am so tired, but I try at least once a night.

Hoping the new babies are doing well. Kim and Jo, how are you feeling post c sections?

Wamommy - we are a bit the same, waiting for a nickname to fit. I always thought Kiara was a bit of a mouthful but so far we have used her full name. Occasionally I say KiKi but we will see if it sticks.

Ok, best be ready for midwife, have a good day all xxx

Yay, 100g gained in 3 days :) happy.


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## Jo_Bean

Post op recovery going great over here! Nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be at all!

We are still using Olivia's full name too. We would probably go with Liv or Livvi but I'm quite liking her full name at the moment.


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## SierraJourney

Beautiful little girl Kim!! 

Glad Kiara gained, helena! Keep it up little girl!!

Jo--glad post op is going well! I keep reading your journal---so excited about Olivia's progress!! 

Still pregnant here. . . :D Going to the midwife in 2.5 hours--and I'm hoping I'm more dilated and that I get a sweep! We'll see!!! :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

Happy 39 weeks xz


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## SierraJourney

I'm so bummed ladies! :( I went to my appointment and the midwife basically refused to check me! She said they checked last week and they don't want to "stir" things up down there unnecessarily! :( So, they didn't check me, and they didn't do a sweep! :( I know it's ridiculous, but now I feel like this baby will be in here forever! :( And I know it's silly, but I was really hoping that today would be my last day at work (I'm off tomorrow and was hoping I'd have the baby before next week)---I'm just so sore and uncomfortable all of the time---it's hard to sit here at work! But I refuse to use my leave time early because I need it for baby! :( I'm just all-around bummed. I can really use some labor dust if you'all have some to spare! ;) 

Thanks for listening to me whine. . .

All in all. . they say baby is healthy, and still guessing he is over 8lbs! :)


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## wamommy

ARGH!!! I understand the frustration, Sierra! Sending labor dust your way!! :dust:

Jo, so glad you're doing well :) I LOVE the nickname Liv!

Helena, yay for gaining :) Kiki is cute, too! Oh, hurry up nickname! I'm getting tired of calling LO Baby or Brother :dohh:

I hope Kellen is alright?


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## wamommy

Just back from our pediatrician's office. Marc looks great! He's lost 6.5 oz, but the Dr. says that's not bad and not to worry. Other than that, the new baby check went very well!


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## helena

Great news wamommy!
Kiara must be having a growth spurt, she is feeding every 2 hours, day and night for the last 2 days. I am shattered. And the baby weight is melting away! About 10kilos gone already. 22 pounds?
Hang in there Sierra, you time will come soon xxxx


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## Blue_bear

I'm getting so impatient now. I want to meet my baby! 

Good to hear all you new mummies and babies are doing well xx


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## SierraJourney

Glad to hear babies are doing so well! 22lbs already Helena?! Wow! I pray mine melts away that quickly! Good job! 

Blue bear- I'm completely there with you! :). Soon!!!!


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## helena

I know Sierra, it is crazy in 2 weeks. I had night sweats nearly every night since birth, I read that was the body's way to get rid of excess water retension. I must have had some serious water bloat!!
It seems ages ago I was pregnant..kind of miss it. Though not too much ;) I do feel for you with the aches and pains. Though soon it will be long forgotten. 
Who will be next!?
It's crazy so many hav been born and we haven't reached due date. One of you needs a true valentines baby! Xx


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## SierraJourney

Wow- that's crazy! It's amazing how much water our bodies store! How many of us are left still pregnant?


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## wamommy

Helena, my body hasn't started shedding water yet, unfortunately! I'm MORE bloated now than when I was pregnant! My ring is super tight and my socks leave a really unattractive dent in my ankles :dohh: I'm actually looking forward to those night sweats to dump some of this water!!! I didn't weigh myself the last week of pregnancy, but I think I'm only down about 15 pounds. I literally about cried yesterday when a stranger at the mall asked me if I was pregnant again... I could have hit her in the face!!! I said, "no, I had a baby 3 days ago and still have a bit of belly." She quickly blushed and commented how beautiful my family was. Too late, lady!! 

Sierra and Blue, I hope your time comes soon! Should we start a baby group once all of our LOs are here? I don't know where else to turn on this site now that baby is here. We'll figure it out. I'm just happy that everyone's babies are arriving happy and healthy. I wonder who will be next?? :winkwink:


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## Kim2012

helena said:


> I know wamommy, each time it happened and I was wriggling my legs in agony. Kept telling myself t sans making me thin and beautiful! Lol.
> 
> Inlaws left this morning, my home is my own. Yaaaay! And Kiara is 2 weeks old today :)
> Midwife due a home visit any minue, hoping Kiara has put on some weight, she isn't gaining as fast as they would like, probably because she was 3 weeks early. Fingers crossed I have fattened her up a bit by now..pumping and feeding direct at the same time is hard work. I don't always pump in the night as I am so tired, but I try at least once a night.
> 
> Hoping the new babies are doing well. Kim and Jo, how are you feeling post c sections?
> 
> Wamommy - we are a bit the same, waiting for a nickname to fit. I always thought Kiara was a bit of a mouthful but so far we have used her full name. Occasionally I say KiKi but we will see if it sticks.
> 
> Ok, best be ready for midwife, have a good day all xxx
> 
> Yay, 100g gained in 3 days :) happy.

Finally home today since monday. Brianns had to be monitored for jaundice since they found negative antibodies in my bloods and suspect i may have passed them to her. It was tough and heartbreaking to see them trying to get blood from that little heel!! She is fine and the levels are below treatment line. Relief!!!

C sec recovering is going well. I just had to take painkillers because they were provided!! Its better than i imagned.even with the cough. helena how is yhe cough and Jo how is yo recovery?


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## munchkinlove

SierraJourney said:


> Wow- that's crazy! It's amazing how much water our bodies store! How many of us are left still pregnant?

im still here!!! 38 weeks 1 day today!!! cervix is soft but not dilated yet, recheck again next week!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Sorry I'm not around much, spending so much time at the hospital but I am silently stalking to see if any more babies are here! 

Recovery from op is going fine. I barely even feel like I had an operation but I think I'm so busy going back and forth to the hospital, I don't feel like I have a baby to prove she's not in my stomach anymore. Although the hormones tell a different story! :haha: they are all over the place, talk about "cry me a river" cry me a bloody ocean at the moment!

Olivia is hanging on in there, eating, sleeping and feeding well. Still having lots of tests on her lungs and she will still need physio for the talipes but we're taking each day as it comes. 

Love to you all xx

And labour dust :dust:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Love to you jo xxx

Im still here, happy to still be here for a lil while yet! xxx


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## Kellen

Good Morning Everyone!

This past week has pretty much been hell. As you all know labor started Monday morning with my waters breaking. After 29 hours of back labor Teagen Elvarae was born weighing 8lb 8oz and 21.5in long. Unfortunately 2 hours after she was born she stopped breathing. Thankfully the hospital staff is amazing.

She is still in the NICU with an active infection due to my waters rupturing so soon. She is also chilling out under the blue lights with a nice case of jaundice (personally I'd say yellow is not her color). I was finally released from the hospital on Thursday and my recovery is going great. Only had a small tear from her incredibly broad shoulders. Pumping is hard work, but we are getting 2oz every time I pump and she only take about 1oz during a feeding so I know she is getting enough.

We are hoping that she will released to us tomorrow, but Tuesday is looking more likely. Both my mom and my MIL fly in today. I am looking forward to having my mom around to help do the small things such as laundry and dishes. Once I become less exhausted and worried I'll give a more in depth update.

Congrats on all the babies! I can't believe so many of us were early and around the same date. Crazy!


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## wamommy

Oh, Kellen, how scary! I'm SO glad Teagen is alright. I can't imagine how frightening that must have been! I'll look forward to hearing the whole story, but for now take care of yourself! I'm glad you have reinforcements flying in to help out. Huge :hugs:

Jo, it sounds like Olivia is a little trooper! When does she get to come home? SO glad she's feeding well!

Sierra, Midnight and Blue, you all must have some seriously cozy tummies! I'll bet this weeks we see some or all of your LOs appear! I'm excited to meet them :)

As for us, Marc sleeps SO well, during the DAY! At night is another story. He's up every hour and it takes me a half hour to settle him. I sleep a half hour at a time for a total of about 4 hours a night. Luckily, I remember this from last time, and know that it WILL get better. It's hard not to get discouraged, but I'm trying. I just try to soak up the quiet middle-of-the-night moments and feel lucky that I get to be the one to bond with him. Sigh... I do miss sleep though.

Breastfeeding is also proving difficult again :( I wasn't able to breastfeed either of my daughters past the first week or two. I never developed an adequate supply, and both times my pediatrician told me to switch to formula. I'm trying yet again, but it appears that I'll have the same outcome. It makes me really sad, since I want so badly to BF. I have to balance my own feelings with what is best for Baby, though. He just wants to eat, lol... I don't think he puts any big philosophical weight on where it comes from.

Anyone feeling any signs of labor coming on?


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## Blue_bear

I feel no signs at all wamommy! I've heard there are some things you can eat/take to increase milk production....sorry if I'm preaching things you already know but I know simple things like eating porridge but have also heard of people taking fenugreek or milk thistle?? I can double check these facts if you need me too.... X 

Well done Kellen, congratulations. Hope your girly is out soon x


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## helena

Pumping for 10 minutes after each feeding wamommy? That's my suggestion, but no doubt you have read or tried it all. I strangely have minimal milk n the left so baby is getting 90% of her milk from the right. It was the same with my sons.

Kiara is also more keen on being noisy in he night, but it's just whiny noises to complain of being alone in her cot..I will forgive her for now since she hasn't even reached her due date yet! I don't think she likes the silence of night.
Also she is a noisy pooper and cries pre poop, just nough to wake me, then to doze off agin..


Kellen, omg what a worrying time for you. Why did she stop breathing? Do they know? Glad the staff were so brilliant. Sending you a big hug xxx

Jo the hormones are certainly tough. I haven't cried for two days, not even about my mums news so am hoping my hormones are settling, two weeks on. I was a crying mess before, about ll sorts, serious or not.

Had a photographer friend come and take pictures of Kiara today, can't wait to see them!!


It is amazing being part of this group, we are all having such individual experiences. Thanks for sharing it all girls xxxx


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## Jo_Bean

Kellen, sorry to hear about the little lady ending up in NICU. She'll be ok though xx 


I'm currently pumping too and doing well I've increased to 5oz each time and this is just by using an app called ifeed. Essentially it's just a timer I do 10 mins on each side and then go back for a couple of mins extra. Also, if you ask the NICU for skin to skin with baby, it will increase your supply. Pumping between 1am and 5am in the dark hours is when your hormones are highest too and this will also increase your supply. 

Sorry if you knew all that. I didn't so wanted to share my tips. I have loads more if you need any x


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## wamommy

I welcome any and all BF tips! :D I've tried SO many things, but maybe there's one critical piece that I'm missing, so I always have ears open. Blue, I tried Fenugreek with DD#1 and it didn't increase supply, but it DID give me horrible diarrhea, lol. I think the pumping more often between/after feedings may really help. Jo, I didn't know hormones were highest from 1-5am! I'll make sure to pump/feed during those hours, even if LO is sleeping. Thank you!


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## Kim2012

Kellen Congrats on the arrival of Teagen...Glad to know she is out of danger, it must have been nerve-wrecking but thank God for the staff and the brilliant work they did.
Sending you hugs!!

Wamommy I hear u on the day sleepers!! Brianna sleeps mainly during the day I cant even wake her up even if I try and is up during the night and she can feed for up to an hour in the night and sleep for another 2 hrs.So nite time has become napping rather than sleep for me...the joys!! Had the midwife visit today and she says since Brianna has mild jaundice she may sleep more...

Breastfeeding going ok but left breast has a seriously cracked nipple I am almost finishing a whole bottle of nipple cream.Have resorted to expressing from that breast but not much is coming out.... will keep expressing to encourage lactation

Helena I have started to ignore Brianna if its just whiny noises to complain as long as she is not screaming!!!

Helena so exciting about the fotos I have got mine booked in for next week and I cant wait.

Hopefully most LOs will be here next week since we are approaching the due dates....


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## helena

Kim - if the crack doesn't clear up I highly recommend nipple cups or shells. I bought the silverette cups and it reduced my healing from 6 weeks with my first two babies to just over two weeks. I don't know if the silver helps or if it is just the fact that my nipples never touch anything (clothes or pads), so maybe the medela or Avent nipple shells may work too.

Really, saved me weeks of pain!

Silverette ones like mine: https://www.breastangels.co.uk/

Shells: https://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2403352

Breast pads made my cracks so much worse. I would stick to them a bit, so making injury worse. Lanolin ointment didnt help much either.

In a cup the nipple sits in its own milk which is healing.
The silver is meant to also have healing properties.
Just thought I would share since this is the first time I tried cups but the first time I haven't cried for weeks and weeks with supe sore bleeding nipples :(


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy. Apparently if you make sure that one of your feeds or pumping sessions is inberween those hours, it will keep your supply up. If you have to miss a feed/pump, try not to make it that one as your hormones during that time are best for breast milk. 

They also advised me to have plenty of skin to skin and if you sleep with something of the baby's and they have something near then, then you swap over items so you smell each other, that can help. Some women carry a small baby hat down their bra (one that their baby has worn).


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## wamommy

Helena, I just showed DH the links, and we're off to Babies R Us to buy some!! If these help with the cracking/bleeding/scabbing I will be ecstatic!!!

Jo, that's smart advice! To be honest, that's one feeding I hurry through or skip, since I'm SO exhausted at that point. Maybe that's part of my issue?? I will be sure not to miss it from now on.


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## helena

It is 12.44 am, I just fed baby and am now on the pump for 10 minutes. I am also trying to be good wamommy / Jo. Oooh I can't wait to get back to keep tho...feels like everyone in the world must be n oozing right now x

Good luck with the shells xx


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## helena

Wamommy, if u do get a shell let them fill a bit with milk, or express some into them so the sore nip sits in milk. That's what my midwife advised for healing xx


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## wamommy

Thank you, Helena. We ended up going and picking these up
https://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/products/108/therashells
We'll see if they help. It can't hurt :shrug:

I'm actually really discouraged tonight. I'm trying to remind myself that it's probably mostly hormones, but I'm really struggling. Breastfeeding for me is totally not fun. I feel like the whole world loves it and even those who struggle eventually get it. I feel like the only one who just can't get it. Maybe it's my body, from not having a thyroid, or maybe I'm doing it all wrong? Either way, I literally cry each couple hours as feeding/pumping time gets closer, because I know how bad it will hurt. I just want to quit, but I don't want to be a quitter. I'm just scared to fail AGAIN, and all I have to show for weeks of pain and crying is bloody nipples and a fussy baby. 

It doesn't help that DH has been completely insensitive about it (and everything). We ran a couple of errands today (with all 3 kids in tow) and then he wanted to go out to dinner. I still had to bathe the kids, and I've been feeling pretty yuck and sore today. I said I wanted to go home. He got angry and said I was only thinking of myself and my needs. Shouldn't I be?? I still clean the house and look after the kids WHILE I try to recover and care for a newborn... Am I selfish for asking ONE time for something I need? Sigh... sorry... just struggling tonight.


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy what day are you? Are you day 6?

Apparently the hormones change again at day 7 so don't be too hard on yourself. 

I've not been able to get Olivia to latch on yet and the pump can be sore too. If it's sore get some cream like Lanisoh and slap it all over the nipple. 

Try to do something else whilst expressing to take your mind off it. Read a book or look on BnB. I always have a little routine whilst my pump is drying from the steraliser, input the kettle on and get a little snack, sort out a comfy spot and remain chilled. 
This should help for either breast feeding or expressing. The fact that you are working yourself up about it will only make things harder for you so be kind to yourself. Don't see failure or give yourself a hard time. Just do what you can and don't worry about how others love it if you don't. 

I will probably have to bottle feed breast milk to be able to help Olivia build up the sucking muscles. I was initially upset about this because you can't maintain pumping for months on end and I thought I'd be making her miss out on a bond or something. But the doctors told me you can do a mixture. 

I'm going to bottle feed breast milk at first as it is best for her and the nurses is NICU can do that when I'm not there. Then everytr I am there I will sit with her against my breast, let her have a go if she wants but not bother if she doesn't. Just her sleeping against my skin helps the bond and the milk. 

Then when she is well and comes home I might just let her suckle at night for a comfort feed and the rest of the time alternate between whatever breast milk I have expressed and formula if needs be. 

None of the feeding options will harm your baby. You being happy and comfortable is THE only important thing as baby will sense it if you aren't. 

:hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Baby is here! I'll type the story later- a bit traumatic! But Camden Edwin arrived today at 3:28 am. Tons of reddish brown hair like Dh and I combined... and 8 lbs 7 oz. Just gorgeousl! We're doing well but had a scary time of it. More later... must sleep....


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## helena

Omg Sierra! Can't wait for full story, but congratulations on Camden's arrival!! Wooooohooooooo! Xxxxxxxxx


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## Jo_Bean

Congrats Sierra!!!!! :yipee:
Welcome to the world Camden Edwin!!!!


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## helena

Oh wamommy, I feel you. I cried a lot boobie feeding my first. Lots, it was agony. And it does rule your life. Pumping saved me 1st time - gave my bleeding nips time off, and the cups / shells helped this time. Nipple shields also helped 1st time - took a bit of pain away.

Hang in there. If you have done your best and it doesn't work then what more can you do? Establishing breastfeeding with more kids to see to is so very hard, pain aside. W just don't have as much time to sit and feed as we did 1st time. 


Hang in there, hormones and sleep derivation makes the world a tough place. Short term. We understand.i am there on and off. This second week was much easier... do find a few minutes for you. even if its ten minutes xxxxx


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## wamommy

Congratulations, Sierra!! I can't wait to hear all about it!! I hope you are able to get some rest, and so excited that Camden has arrived! :yipee:


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## wamommy

Thank you Jo and Helena for your kinds words :hugs: I'm sure things will get better. It's so easy to remember all of the excitement and happiness of having a baby, and somehow we forget that it comes with some pretty tough times too! I guess that's what makes us have more than one, haha.

I'll try to figure out some way to make today a better day. Perhaps I'll take an extra long shower (my only alone time of the day) and paint my toenails! It may seem so silly, but even THAT might make me feel more human :)


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## Blue_bear

Congrats Sierra! Hope your all ok! X


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## DragonflyWing

Congratulations Kellen and Sierra! Welcome to the world, babies!

The twins are doing well, Gunnar is 7.5 lbs already and Lilja is 6.5, do they are gaining great. As for me though, I'm showing some signs of postpartum depression and having some trouble coping. Going too bed now, hoping to get a few precious hours of sleep...trying to get on a schedule because I have to go back to work full time on Wednesday. I don't know quite how I'm going to manage.


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## helena

Oh dragon, sorry to hear you aren't feeling great. Is there no chance your doctor could sign you off sick for a while? Postnatal depression is tough. Have you mentioned it to a doctor or midwife?
I have been super emotional but it's just post partum hormones I am sure, started the day after baby we born..I think real post natal depression kicks in from two weeks after birth? Kind of when the usual post partum hormones are calming slightly? I do hope you are ok. Xx
Seems so early to work :( though maye you ae one of those women who will love a working mom! good luck! Xxx


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, I'm so sorry you're having a hard time :( Have you spoken to your Doctor about it? I'm glad you're keeping an eye on it and hopefully once you're on a schedule with work and sleep it will get better. :hugs:

How is everyone doing? I'm so anxious to hear from everyone about their babies and births.


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## Blue_bear

Well, I'm beyond frustrated. My waters broke last night about 6.30pm. I've had nothing since, no contractions, nothing. Other than a bit of blood this morning. Grrrr. Got to go in to be checked over shortly, they will then give me until this evening to start naturally. I don't want to be induced!!!!


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## wamommy

Eeeek! Blue_bear, how exciting!! I know you don't want to be induced :( but thinking that either way you'll have your baby by tomorrow is SUPER exciting!! :D Come ON, Baby-bear... time to get moving!!


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## helena

It will be soon then blue bear! Exciting!! Good luck!

All ok with us, though its hard work having three! My middle baby isn't convinced the baby is a good idea so I can't leave him alone with her incase he decides to sit n her..but he will come round in time I am sure :)

I am tired. Kiara made lots of noises in the night las night and was feeding every two hours. I think she is feeding too often and is making noises as a result of her digestive system going into overdrive. Similar thing happened with my first baby. It's like she needs comfort so feeds, then two hours after she needs to poop and gets noisy with it. Then she gets a bit of trapped wind and cries and needs comfort again, so comfort feeds and then the cycle continues, comfort feed, sore tummy, comfort feed, sore tummy.... The nights she only feeds every 3 or 4 hosts she is much happier. That way I think her little tummy gets a break and she doesn't get such digestive troubles. So I need to make sure when she feeds she has a big feed so won't be back for more for a few hours.. It's so easy to just let her have a little in the night, then she doses off and I go back to sleep. Really I need to wake her and make her have a proper big feed..must wake myself up more too rather than send night feeds thinking "oh I can't wait until I can snuggle down and sleep again in a few minutes!"....
Hoped to have her weighed today but the nurse wasnt available for some reason or other.

Hope you are ok dragon.
And Sierra, how is it going?
Blue bear, hoping you are in labour right now!
Jo, how is your lovely little one doing?
Wamommy, any more sleep for you?
Kim and Kellen, how's baby doing? Hoping the jaundice is getting better.
Kellen, did baby come home now?

Sending you all happy baby and birth vibes Xxx


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## SierraJourney

Hello everyone! I'm typing this with one hand since Camden refuses to.stop crying today unless he is held... we've been home for only 4 hours... he's been super fussy after his circumcision... I'm not sure what to do... he was amazing before the circ... makes me feel bad :( 

I'm totally in love with this little guy.... :)

Anyways the birth story is coming as well as a picture as soon as I can get a chance to get to my computer instead of my phone :). I'm reading though and sending hugs to you all!


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## Blue_bear

I'm still pregnant, lol


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## wamommy

Glad you're home, Sierra! I'm sorry to hear Camden is having a hard time :( Marc had an easier time with his circ, as long as his diaper was dry at all times. Any peepee and he screams! I can't wait to hear the whole birth story :D

Blue-bear, I can't believe you're still preggo! Looks like LO wants to be fashionably late to the party... lol. Sending you labor dust!! :dust:

Helena, I'm going through the same thing here! Baby sleeps soundly all day. I have to wake him to even eat! At night he is off and on the whole night. He doesn't scream, but he whimpers and rolls around. I'm more than exhausted... I bet you are too! I'm having severe guilt about my 3-yr-old. She was my baby, and I feel like she's hurt or feels displaced. I can't cuddle with her the same way because I'm always feeding or pumping :( I hope we settle into a routine soon. At the very least I need to stop yelling "SSSSHHHH, the baby is sleeping!" I feel like a crap mom!


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## DragonflyWing

Doing ok, back to work tomorrow. I actually feel quite a bit better after getting some sleep two nights in a row. Maybe I was just sleep deprived, not depressed.

I took Lilja to a speech therapist today for her eating issues, and it looks like she has some weak jaw muscles, which are causing her to have to work extra hard to suck, which leads to her falling asleep and not finishing her bottles. We got some exercises to do, and we have to go back every eek for 10 weeks, yuck!


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## Blue_bear

Have had epidural, just waiting for bubs now!


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## munchkinlove

good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant wait too see your little one!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kellen

We came home yesterday. Now typing one handed while nursing. Teagen is amazing. I will type more later.


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## helena

Go blue bear!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Any more babies????

We're doing good! Olivia has made massive improvements and is now off of oxygen. She's breathing air like we do :yipee: she's been stable and her lung seems to be fine now. She had pneumonia but that has been treated and she caught a bug on the NICU but that is now better too. So it's just the muscular stuff to deal with. The initial chromosome tests have said she doesn't have DS and we are waiting on the detailed ones. As far as her physical progress goes, she is moving much more and a lot stronger. The physio is happy with her progress. We have exercises to do and hopefully she will keep getting stronger. 

Dragon, we have to see a speech therapist about the sucking too. Having already seen how quickly Oliia has learned some other things, I think you'll be surprised that it won't take too long for Lilja to pick it up :hugs: they do learn very quickly when they are supported x


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## Blue_bear

Matilda Stella Jane made her entrance at 4.50 this morning, weighing a dinky 6lbs 9ozs.


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## Kim2012

Typing with one hand is becoming a chore!!!

Helena thanks for the advice managed to buy the avent nipple shells and they are working.Boobs not so sore now.Pumping is still a struggle as Brianna emptys every breast on her feed.I feel like there is nothing afterwards as she does a big feed she can go for an hour or so.I would really like to pump so that DH can feed her while i take some much needed sleep.she sleeps well though and wakes up on average 2-3 times a night

Jaundice is better now.I think baby is starting to be have colic/trapped winds.she groans and curls even in her sleep


Sierra Congrats on the arrival of Camden! eargerly waiting for the birth story!
Blue-Bear congrats on the arrival of Matilda Stella . I love the name Matilda

Jo good to hear Olivia is making some progress and getting more excercises

On another note I have noticed some wetness discharge on my C- Sec Scar.am a bit concerned.I had the bandage removed last friday and it has been try since then then this morning I noticed some lil blood when i was drying after a shower.Any of u ladies having similar issues?


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## Kellen

Congrats to everyone who has had their babies! Doesn't look like anyone here is actually going to have a true Valentine's Day baby. Oh well! I think we all hoped they would arrived earlier so we could cuddle them.

Life has been interesting. Right now Teagen is sleeping in her stroller that is next to my chair in the living room. She had been having a bit of reflux, but a trip to the chiropractor really helped that problem and now she is passed out making cooing sounds at me.

Helena - I feel for what you had to endure with your in-laws. My MIL flew in on Saturday and was supposed to leave Tuesday... but my DH decided to buy her a new ticket to fly out tomorrow. Grr... we spend over $500 on her and she went and bought a crappy onsie from Walmart with a $2 sticker on it. Not that I'm wanting stuff, but all she wants to do is sit and hold the baby. I heard her complaining to DH that I was being selfish by breast feeding and not letting her hold the baby. WTF! Then she tried to convince him that we need to get Teagen on a pacifier so that when she is only a little hungry I can let someone else hold her instead of feeding. There was a lot more said that has ticked me off, but I am trying to let go of it and just concentrate on doing what is best for my baby.

Wamommy - I got a lot of one-on-one with lactation specialist while in the NICU. They said that eating oats or oatmeal can really help bring in the milk. I never had a problem with that and was gushing by day three. We have had some difficulties latching, but a lot of that was because I was stressed. Things have gotten a whole lot better since being home. And I know they will improve once MIL leaves tomorrow.

Jo - I am glad that Olivia is off of the oxygen. Watching Teagen with the c-papp on for only a day was one of the hardest things ever. Did Olivia get awesome glasses velcroed to her head while under the lights for jaundice? I was calling Teagen my little bug because it looked like she had antenna.
 



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## Jo_Bean

Congratulations Blue Bear!! Can't wait to see a pic!

Kellen :haha: little bug! Aw bless! No Olivia didn't have those! They sound quite cool though!


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## helena

Congrats blue bear!!! Beautiful name.
And yay for teeny babies - Kiara was a 6pound something girl. Little dolls!

Kellen - your MIL sounds a complete pain!!!!
I do use a pacifier, but it's a personal decision. And breastfeed ing is selfish!? Haha the woman is clearly mad. Hang on in there!!!!

Regarding the scar, no I haven't had any liquid. I had a small gap of 2mm develop in one place but just had to put iodine on after showering to heal it an stay clean. It's probably nothing but I would get it checked, an infection is the last thing you need right now x

Jo - glad Olivia is doing so great!! Pneumonia too :( poor little girl xx


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## wamommy

Congrats, blue_bear!!! I LOVE the name Matilda :D I can't wait to hear the whole story, and I'm so happy she finally arrived!

Kellen, Teagen is SO cute :) What a little chub! What was her birth weight? I'm so glad she's home and doing well. I don't know that I could handle your MIL situation. I admire you for not losing it! I hope things calm down and get better once she's gone home.

Kim, I'm so glad Brianna's jaundice is getting better! 

Helena, the nipple shields helped me a lot too! They look rather funny under clothes...lol... so I don't wear them out of the house. I've found my nips are a lot less painful since using them, though. If only they produced more milk I'd be set!! I'm still giving it my all, and Kellen I'll try the oatmeal. I'll try anything at this point! I did have my very first milk stain on my shirt yesterday...lol... what a weird thing to get excited about!! :dohh:

Jo, I'm so glad Olivia is doing better! Do you know when she'll be able to come home? She's gorgeous :D

As for us, we're STILL on the name rollercoaster!! We named him Marc, after my DH, but it's also my dad's name, so we aren't going to call him that. We still have to decide what to call him! DH says I can choose a "nickname" but I sort of want him to have a NORMAL name... he's 8 days old and I still call him "the Baby." Sigh


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## helena

What about some other version of Marc? Marcus? Marko!? Marcos?

I think I am calling a day on pumping, I think my boobs can now go it alone :) I just get so fed up f finding the time to pump, and I am pretty convinced Kiara has gained weight. She isn't officially weighed again until next Friday but according to my home scales she has grown. So I will take the pump back to the hamachi today. Yay! She is 3 weeks old today, can't believe it.
So glad the shells helped you girls.
Wamommy, I do wear my cups when out, but I have become a big scarf wearer! Kind of around the neck and hanging down each side! Otherwise I am a bit Madonna-esque! Haha.

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_F4DA830B.jpg

Happy due date all!


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## DragonflyWing

helena, she's so cute! She looks so serene.

I'm back to work now...so far it's going great! I forgot how much I actually like my job lol. It's also really nice to pump at work. I get two extra 30 minute breaks to do it, and there's a special "mother's room" with a refrigerator, sink, and separate locked pumping rooms. It's really relaxing to just sit and read while pumping, and not having to worry about the babies waking up or DH needing something. I also find I get more milk at work, probably because I'm so relaxed.

I'm hoping it helps increase my supply, because it has really dropped since the babies came home. When they were still in the hospital, I was consistently pumping more than 50 ounces a day, sometimes 60. With the stress and sleep deprivation after they came home, I wasn't pumping consistently, and my supply dropped to about 30-40 oz. At first it wasn't a big deal, because they were only eating about 30 oz a day, but now they're eating more like 40-48 oz, and I'm not making enough. We've had to use some of our freezer stash over the past few days.

I'd also like to nurse more...I haven't nursed either baby in days, they've just been getting bottles. Lilja can't really latch effectively right now, and although Gunnar is a champion nurser, it's just been easier to give them both bottles. I hope soon I can get them both nursing well so I can have more bonding time with them when I'm home.

Here's a little collage my sister made last week when she was visiting :)
 



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## munchkinlove

congrats everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well im still here only a week to go, im 1 cm dilated as of today so maybe its a start and she will be here in a few days!!!!


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## Jo_Bean

So did we have any valentines babies at all!?


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## SierraJourney

Well I'm going to attempt the birth story one-handed because Camden just refuses to be let out of my arms- and when he is settled, I have to eat or shower or something... lol. Anyways.... 

So on Friday, Dh and I both took the day off to have one last date night before we had baby. It was a good thing we did because labor started the very next day! 

Saturday I woke up, snuggled Dh, ate breakfast together, then I went upstairs to take a shower. As I was finishing up on the toilet, I wiped and there was a ton of.bright red blood- and the toilet water was super bloody. It kept coming, so I held myself and waddled to the door to tell Dh. We were told bright red blood was bad, so Dh said to call the midwife asap. By the time I was on the phone and Dh had come upstairs, blood was running down my legs and pooling on the floor! Dh went white, and the midwife told us to get to the hospital asap. I've never seen my Dh so scared in his life. It seemed like an.eternity, but we arrived at the hospital 15 minutes later. Getting on the monitor was the most comforting feeling ever as we heard our baby's heart beating still... I meanwhile was still bleeding all over the bed. My midwife said the bleeding was not normal, but reassured me saying she'd seen worse! I was having no contractions and after 3 hours of monitoring, they sent us home and told us to call if the bleeding got worse. By noon, I started having cramping and my mom and sister- who we were scheduled to hang out with all day- came over and helped us time the.contractions. I labored at home until the contractions were 2 minutes apart. After getting to the hospital, they check me and I was still only dilated to a 2. And I was still bleeding! They said my cervix was bleeding and also it was my bloody show. But it was a lot more blood than they usually see.. but since baby was fine, we continued letting the contractions come. I labored into the night hours, in excruciating pain, only to dilate to a 4. Oh and I forgot to mention that I had been vomiting since the afternoon- almost with every contraction. By midnight, I was exhausted, hyper ventilating,and not progressing even though my waters were bulging since 5pm. They decided to break my waters, and that brought obon even heavier contractions. I was exhausted and after being checked again around 2am, only being at a 5, I decided that I needed something to help me untense and dilate. So even though I was adament to have a purely natural birth, I never expected to be that out of control of myself- I was literally shivering and shaking the entire time on top of the pain and vomiting. So they gave me nubane, which didn't seem to help with the pain or anything but somehow got me dilated to a 7. Still hyperventilating and writhing in pain with no . m. ore change, I asked for an intrafeakel. I did the trick because after 20 minutes I was dilated enough to start pushing. 28 minutes of pushing- which amazed the midwife and nurses, Camden Edwin arrived. I was overjoyed and kept yelling "I love you!". Pictures later once I can get to the computer. :) I'm definitely in love!


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## helena

Oh wow Sierra!! (Wow to the story AND all that one handed typing!).all that blood must've been Scarey! I always thought the show would appear days or even a week before labour, but I think that is also why my waters were running pink. Oh but bright red mustve been terrifying, even pink scared the life out of me!
Well done xxxxx

It is amazing just how much u can love this person u only just met isn't it!


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## SierraJourney

Here's Camden! :cloud9:
 



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## wamommy

He's beautiful, Sierra!!!! :D What a scary experience, but so worth it now, right? How is DH doing with him? 

Jo, I don't think we had any Valentines babies, lol :dohh: At least we didn't have ant go overdue! I can't imagine going to 42 weeks. 38 was already so uncomfortable!

Munchkin, I hope it's soon for you :)

So, I have decided we'll call LO Max!! It's simple... DH is ok with it. I just can't call him Marc...too Freudian with my dad, DH and my son all having the same name! :dohh:


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## Jo_Bean

I love Max!!!


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## helena

My sons best friend is a Max. Lovely name.

Camden is lovely. Such squeezable cheeks! Looks beautiful. and looks huge compared to my little lady who still looks a bit preemie sometimes. She still has wrinkly knees, so needs fattening up!
Well done Sierra xx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! He's definitely worth it!!! And Helena, he is a big guy! I can't believe he was all squished inside of me!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy- Dh is amazing with him! He takes shifts with me at night and is just in awe of Camden. It makes me very proud. :)

Max sounds like a perfect name!


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## wamommy

Yay :D I'm happy you all like the name Max! It really grew on me, and that's what I wanted to name him when we were in the hospital, but DH had this overwhelming feeling that he was "supposed" to name baby after himself... :dohh: I went along with it, but have been mentally calling him Max since birth!

Sierra, isn't it weird to look at the baby and think that a short while ago he was inside your tummy? It still amazes me. No wonder we were all so uncomfortable. They really are complete little humans, all squished and wiggly in there!

I'm jealous of your DH, lol. We have 3 kids and he has not stayed up ONE night in 4 years :ninja: I try to look at the positive, though. I'm the one who GETS to stay up and bond with baby. This is such a short and sweet time in a child's life... he's the one missing out, haha. There's nothing like the dreamy, almost other-worldly eyes of a newborn staring up at you as the whole world sleeps.


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## SierraJourney

I completely agree- those eyes at night are perfect! Though I wish your Dh would help more. ... I think the whole labor scared my Dh.. seeing his wife in so much pain- he's been really doting and making sure I'm not overdoing it. I love him so much! What a sweetie!


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## helena

Oh Sierra what a sweet post :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

baby Jade was born Monday 11th :D


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## helena

Congratulations midnight! Pretty name! Xx

My photographer friend has been working on the photos she took of Kiara last week and has sent us one today. I am so very very happy with it! Can't wait to get the rest and send a print to my mum (still having treatment and hasn't been able to meet our little lady yet). I think it is such a beautiful photo!...
Though obviously I am biased! :)
Pity my hands look old tho, but Kiara more than makes up for that I say :)
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_F0CD9B00.jpg


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## wamommy

What a gorgeous photo, Helena!! Your hands don't look old at all. It's simply stunning. :D

Congrats, Midnight! I love the name Jade. How was the birth?

I updated the front page! Please tell me if I got anything wrong :)


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## helena

Thanks.
I think the photo captures how relaxed and chiled out Kiara can be (so far!). I put her to bed almost an hour ago and she is laying in her cot just looking about, with the occasional gurgle for me to go in and put her dummy/ pacifier back in. She is so calm.
It's not always like this, Se does have her moments with trapped wind and cries before each poop, but generally she is really relaxed.
I have found that she sleeps much better on her side. I would prefer her to be on her back thinking of SIDS and all, but she settles so much better on her tummy and side. So I decided to sleep her on her side with a wedge so she can't roll onto her tummy any time soon. My second son was the same, I remember the midwives putting him on his side in hospital so am hoping it isn't too bad...Will check will the pediatrician when we see her for Kiara's first appointment next week. But she just moans and waves her hands when on her back :( 

oooh, it has to be said I am fully enjoying being able to lie on my back and on my tummy now no longer pregnant! Seems such a luxury! :)
Anyone else enjoying certain things now not pregnant?..


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## Blue_bear

Just trying to catch up, not finding much time to get online at the mo! 

We're doing well though, Matilda is perfect :) DS isn't sure and is definitely testing some boundaries in objection but its to be expected I guess. Just makes me worry how il cope when DH goes back to work :-/ 

Brief summary of her birth....
Waters went 6.30pm Mon 11th.
Nothing started over night, just a bit of a show in the waters.
Went in to be checked at 8am Tues 12th, all ok and she was still happy so I had until 6pm to get things going naturally or go back in to be induced....
Spent the day walking but nothing significant started, 8pm the hook me up to hormone drip to get contractions going and strong. Kissed goodbye to my water birth! 
Got to 1am and I demanded an epidural, in place by 1.30am.
4am, doc is called in the room and I'm prepped for c-sec as her heart rate keeps dropping. She then examined me and I was 5cm so she laid me on my left side and said as long as her heart rate stabilised the next check would be in 4 hours, 4.30am by this point.
I laid there for 10mins before I suddenly felt immense pressure in my bowls, I started crying to DH because I decided now was the time to get embarrassed about needing a poo?!
MW didn't believe I was feeling such pressure until I said it felt like she was coming, she looked and it turned out she was in fact coming!
Never seen a MW move so fast to get things ready but two pushes later and my little lady was out :) 
So 5cm to delivery in 20mins! 

She is the spitting image of her big brother when he was newborn <3


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## helena

Ww bluebear - fast mover! Well done xxx


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## SierraJourney

Congrats midnight! Jade is a lovely name! 

Wow blue bear- she got here so quickly at the end! Speaking of embarrassment... Dh and I totally forgot about a funny part in my labor! Right before I asked for the interfeakel, I was lying in.bed in pain when I announced that I had to pee! So the nurse said, "okay, we'll help you out if bed " I adamantly said " I am NOT moving from this bed! " so they had to bring a pad, put it under me so I could pee IN the bed! Oh the lack of shame! Lol I literally can't believe I had lost that much dignity, but Dh and I keep getting a good chuckle out of it now! :haha: 

Helena, Kiara sounds perfect! My little guy is a bit of a town cryer but yesterday and tonight saw great improvement! In fact, I'm nursing him after he slept 5.5 hrs tonight! I'm so proud! :)

I am enjoying feeling my dhs arms around me again- and also being able to sip some coffee again- though I try to limit it due to bf. 

Wamommy how is the bf going btw? It's definitely more of a challenge than I anticipated and it's hard being the constant food source, but it's getting better every day here. Wondering how you're doing.... 

My mum and sister came over and cleaned my entire house yesterday and they watched Camden while Dh and I went and got some groceries. It was the first time in 9 months that I had been away from him. It was hard but so very good! And it feels sooooo nice to have my house clean!!! I'm so grateful!


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## Midnight_Fairy

ty all, added birth story to sig xx


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## wamommy

:rofl: Sierra, that's too funny about peeing in the bed :D It's awesome how inhibitions go out the window when you're in labor! 

Breastfeeding is SUCH a sore subject for me. I thought I'd be able to accept my low supply this time and not put so much pressure on myself, but I've been beating myself up just like the last two times... :( I attempt to breastfeed, baby cries because he isn't getting anything, crying makes it impossible to latch... repeat... So I've been pumping every 2 hours, and never get more than an ounce per pump (total for both breasts). This isn't enough to feed LO, so we have had to supplement with formula. It's so disappointing, and I wish so very much that I could exclusively breastfeed, but it looks like it isn't in the cards for us. The pumping is taking its toll, and I don't know how long I can keep it up. DH read that the benefits are best if I try at least 3 months, so that's my goal right now. Sigh... I try to tell myself I shouldn't be down about this... I have THREE gorgeous kids, who are smart, kind, beautiful, and perfect (to me, of course), despite my inability to breastfeed. It will just take some time for the sadness about it to pass, I think.

How is everyone else doing? How is life with babies?? My favorite thing: the sound LO makes when he's contentedly asleep. He sounds like a puppy, whimpering in a happy way :D


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## helena

Don't beat yourself up wamommy, you are doing a great job. Ad pumping and having 3 kids is HARD! I know. Finally taking our breast pump back to the pharmacy today. A so happy. What pump do you have? I know I got nowhere with a manual job.
Baby has had some breastmilk, that is great. He has had mummy's antibodies. You are doing what you have to do xxxxx


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## helena

Wamommy, thought of you just now as there is something about breastfeeding on British tv just now. it is saying how many more babies in the world can be saved from illnesses such as diarrhea etc if they were breastfed in the first hour of life. Its mostly talking aout the impoverished areas of the world, but it says the colostrum is the important part - it described colostrum as the best natural immune booster known to science. Sounds like good stuff to me!
Your little man got the important part, tha magic bit. Don't beat yourself up sweetie xx


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy- I agree with Helena- don't beat yourself up! You are doing what you can and baby is doing great! I can't imagine how hard it is to keep on with it- I know that I've been so frustrated pumping and feeding- my milk just came in so I know very well how hard it is to latch when baby us crying. He dis that a lot when the milk was switching over. And I'm slowly getting more with pumping but it's taking awhile. . I think the 3 month goal is a good goal- you can do it and we're here for you if you need the support! 

I think those little whimpers are cute too! I think my.favorite things are- he'll sneeze twice then the third sneeze is more if a cough sneeze with a sound "coo!" I also think it's adorable when he's just starting a good fuss- his cry is a very discernible "a waa" sound in the beginning which is so cute that it sounds fake. :) love it!


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## Kellen

Good Morning All!

DH is watching over Teagen right now and enjoying watching her sleep. Poor dear has a runny nose and mommy has been at her with the bulb syringe. She is still jaundiced and has had to go back for three heel pricks to check her levels. One level is going down, but the other one is staying constant. Our pediatrician has scheduled an ultrasound on her liver to make sure everything is functioning properly.

Breastfeeding is way more work than I had imagined, but it is totally worth it. Right now (due to the jaundice) I have to wake her up every two hours and feed her. My right nipple is inverted so we use a breast shield, which she likes to slide down and not latch onto. This means we spend a lot of time with the left side and pumping the right side. However, at night we are allowed to take a break. She slept for a constant 5 hours last night. Of course I woke up and freaked out a couple of times because she was sleeping so deeply that I couldn't hear her breathing. According to DH this is my fault because when we were in the hospital the nurse tried to wake me to take my vitals (while Teagen was in the NICU) and my BP set of alarms because it came back as 73/36. I had to explain that yes I normally have low BP and no I'm not in dire straights of dieing.

My MIL is finally gone... as of last Thursday. My mom left that Saturday even though she wasn't scheduled to go home until this Saturday, but due to DH's stinky attitude she wanted to give us time alone. I am probably being hormonal, but MIL called last night with more family drama and then told me to: "Give my baby girl a kiss." My mind was all: "Um, she is your _granddaughter_ not your baby. She is my baby so back off!" She also told my DH that no matter how old he is he will always be her baby boy. This slightly disturbs me as he reverts to acting like a child around her. They both need to recognize that he is a grown up not a child. Ugh... sorry for the mini rant.

Congrats on all the happy and healthy births! Too bad none of us actually had a Valentine's baby, but that is okay. I think it is amusing that so many of us went into labor on the same day.


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## Kellen

Here is the link to my birth story: https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/b...1741371-teagens-birth-story.html#post25586155


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## DragonflyWing

I'm so glad to hear about all your babies! So glad things are going well.

Sierra- what's an interfeakel? The only thing I can think of is maybe intrathecal? Is it like anesthesia?


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone xx im finding three kids hard lol the kids are well behaved but I want my routine bk lol


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## wamommy

Helena and Sierra, thank you so much for your kind words :hugs: :hugs: It means a lot!! I'm pumping as we speak. So far I'm "up" to 1/2-1 ounce per half hour of pumping... sigh... but you're right... he already got the most important stuff. Anything else I can give him now is just gravy :)

Kellen, what an amazing/scary birth!! I'm so glad you two are ok now. She really is beautiful :D

Midnight, I TOTALLY agree...lol... 3 kids is rough. I thought life was chaos before, but now I'm realizing how structured we were! I can't wait to settle into a new routine that works for everyone. Right now we're still in "make it work" mode :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Dragon- yes you are right- that's what it was. I didn't quite know what they told me it was as I didn't do any research on drugs beforehand since I planned on a natural birth! That and I was too lazy to Google it when I was typing :haha:


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## helena

oh yes 3 is crazy!lol. we are starting to get into a rhythm but there are still many many crazy moments..bath time being one!
also my boys have started bickering a lot. am hoping this is a short phase. but maybe it is tiring them out, sine at least they are sleping good. having one baby waking you up is touhg, probably having two is even tougher Dragon?.. having 3 kids waking in the night is no fun at all!

i think Kiara is having a growth spurt, she is feeding rediculously often for a couple of hours then sleping for hours. its all good though, we had her 1 month chck up today and she is 3 kilos now. still small i guess but gaining and above birth weight finally so we are happy with her. i told the doc that she much prefers sleeping on her tummy or side, and the docor even noticed how calm she got when she lay her on her tummy and she sopped screaming within a minute and was all quiet and adorable. obviously the doctor couldnt tell me it was ok for her to not sleep on her back, but she did say it was up to me to make a decision and that all her kids had slept on their tummys..
so i dont think i will worry about her on her side too much. in a couple of months she could be turning herself anyway.
i also asked when i could travel to England, since there is a whooping couhg outbreak here and in Uk. i explained about my mum and she said sh would bring one vaccine forward but that ideally she wouldnt travel until 3 months. so it looks like i wont get to visit my mum until then. which is sad. she finishes her radiotherapy today and starts chemo soon.

but the good news is Kiara-s weight gain. well done me. lol.


xx


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## Midnight_Fairy

Helena. All mine slept on tummy or side x 
Yes three kids is manic. Didnt realise how easy 2 was lol. Still early days though I suppose x


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## SierraJourney

Helena, that's great news about Kiaras weight gain! Good job! Sorry to hear you can't travel for a while.. that has to be hard. :(

I hear you on the feeding for hours. Camden eats from about 6-9 almost every evening! It's exhausting! But he seems really healthy and that's all that matters. 

Anyone else's lol have bad breath? Lol Camdens smells like body odor whenever he nurses in the morning... then it smells fine the rest of the day! Google says it's normal but I'll ask the pediatrician at his next appt. 

Speaking if appointments, I go in tomorrow morning to see my midwife. I have a lump in my breast, they told me to apply heat and massage while nursing but it won't go away. So they are going to look at it tomorrow. They don't think it's bad but want to make sure it's not plugged. I'm praying Camden does okay in the appointment as he hates being put in his carseat so I'm sure the entire office will hear him screaming on both arrival and departure! :(


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## Midnight_Fairy

Good lyck x


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## helena

Good luck Sierra. Xxx and don't worry about the crying, I bet they are so used to it they will hardly notice! And it always sounds worse when it is your own, it probably won't even register for a midwife xxxx

Just to add, Kiara has been growing at an average of a cm a week for the last month. Imagine if we carried that on for life!....she would be over 5m tall by the age of 10! Lol


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## Midnight_Fairy

Please tell me things will settle. Jade is 10dsys old and I feel on fast forward


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## DragonflyWing

Yes, two is a challenge! I'm back to work now, so DH has to take care of them all day by himself. I do what I can in the evenings, but then he gets up with them in the night so I can sleep and do it all over again the next day! Between work, pumping exclusively, and taking care of the babies in the evening...even though I'm getting about 7 hours of sleep at night, I'm still exhausted. Poor DH is way beyond exhausted at this point...he only gets maybe 4 hours a day, in 1 hour chunks throughout the day. I'm trying to get him to try feeding both babies at the same time so he has 2 hours in between feedings, but he doesn't think it's possible. I've done it, so I think he's just being stubborn. 

The babies had their 2 month check up today- Gunnar is 8lb2oz and Lilja is 6lb12oz. He's at the 50th percentile and she's at the 12th...little peanut. The doctor said they are both growing well, though. They had a bunch of vaccines and are very cranky now. I'm working from home today, and I'm trying to work with Lily in my arms lol. Not easy!


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## helena

Oh midnight, I am sure it will get easier very soon! Don't forget hormones are making everything seem a little more intense just now.
Kiara is 4 weeks today and for the last hour and a half I have been on the sofa watching tv, all three children sleeping soundly, husband out for a beer with a friend, soaps firmly on my tv. Life feels normal and straightforward.. A similar calmness prevailed yesterday evening too. I do hope it lasts!!

My tough time is 5-6 when DH isn't home, baby cries and gets a bit colicky and I need to make tea for the two boys...that's tricky. But a baby carrier / sling helps.
School and creche run in the mornings is a bit manic but I will get it cracked soon I hope (my eldest is at school, his brother at crèche three mornings a week) and won't let the big one be late too often..like is morning....ooh the mean teacher did give me a look! (But had she been up every 2 hours feeding a growth spurt possibly colicky baby, getting breakfast for all, and then trying to wrestle two small boys into snow wear and battling traffic to get to school on time?..no I dont suppose she had..lol).

But for now I will enjoy the calmness of this house. Lots of gentle sleepy breathing going on..

In fact I think I may celebrate this calm evening now with a cuppa and a creme egg!

Dragon, would it be an option or a help for you to feed one baby directly in the night?..it's tough I know.
I haven't been able to sleep in the day since my kids went back to school after half term this week. One is always awake, lr when i just have baby i tm to do the shopping etc..i must stop this tarot to be efficient.
but I am kind of use to being tired I suppose. I don't feel TOO bad tired wise...in fact I feel better than when I was pregnant, so that helps.
Then I was knackered and still getting up to the two boys once or twice a night...DH now sees to them, but they have decided to sleep great since he took on that role and I had baby! Cheeky monkeys.

Hope the twins settle soon after their vaccines!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Aw sounds bliss hun. Minw are at school too and we were even late when I was pregnant lol x


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## Kellen

I am so glad to hear that all the babies are healthy and growing! Time does seem to being flying by.

Today we had Teagen's two week check up. She now weighs 9lb 1oz and is back to being 21in after her cone head shrank. She is above average in her height and weight, but average with her head circumference. Because she eats so well, is calm and sleeps at night the doctor gave us the go ahead to begin tummy time. Also she pulled her cord off this week, but there is still a small scab. Once it falls away we are good to begin bathtime!


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## SierraJourney

Just found out Camden has to have lab work done tomorrow for jaundice. :( poor baby. :( he also has a hematoma bump on his head which I thought would go away soon but they told me today that it will be there for a couple of months! Poor little head. :(


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## helena

Here we started bath time right way, in hospital. It's cute :)

Oh Sierra, poor Camden. What's the head bump all about?


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## SierraJourney

Yay for Teagan! Good job growing little angel!


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## wamommy

Helena, that sounds just wonderful! Last night the baby wouldn't sleep at ALL until 7am, so I put on a movie and just gave in to being up all night. I usually try to sleep and end up dozing for 5-20 minutes at a time and then being jolted awake by a fussing baby. It's almost worse than not sleeping at all!! So last night I just sat up alone (or feeding LO) and watched an entire movie. I haven't done that uninterrupted in years! It was actually very peaceful. I know what you mean about the calmness of sweet baby breathing all around you. 

Kellen, yay for growing! I'm glad Teagen is gaining like she should :D

Sierra, I hope all goes well with Camden. What happened to his head?

I just finished making birth announcements using Photoshop :D I'm so proud! It will save a TON of money. I can print them for 9cents each, instead of paying one of those sites $1.50 or more each. It may not look QUITE as professional :dohh: but I'm still happy with them.

Question: Does anyone else's baby have the stinkiest farts in the WORLD? I about gag... lol... and I don't gross out easily. DH and the girls think it's super funny!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy- his head got pinched coming out the birth canal.... causing blood to pool between his scalp and skull causing a big bump. :(


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## DragonflyWing

LOL I haven't noticed stinky farts, but I have noticed the bad breath. Sometimes their breath smells like Fritos. Weird! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Glad my baby isn't the only one with bad breath! :haha:


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## helena

Oh poor Camden, that sounds horrid :( x


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## wamommy

Oh, ouch, Sierra! Poor little guy :(


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## SierraJourney

They say it shouldn't hurt him but it makes me feel bad for him :( and it's super soft there so I'm always afraid I'm going to hurt him! But he doesn't seem to mind. 

It's snowing like crazy here... and I have to go to tge midwife's office and to get his lab work done. :( I'm dreading taking him out in this :(


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## wamommy

I heard about the snow storms on the news... yikes!! Just take it slow!

I have a dentist appointment today, ugh... My least favorite thing in the world! I haven't been since before I was pregnant, so I'm anticipating the worst :(


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## SierraJourney

Argh--I dread the dentist, too. Yucky---hope it wasnt too bad for you!

We survived the snowstorm when we ventured out today, though the roads were horrible! Camden did great getting his heel pricked at his lab work for his jaundice. He's a slow bleeder, though, so I felt bad because they had to keep squeezing his poor foot to get the blood to come out. :(

I was super touched today, as the lady doing his labs said her son was born on the same day as Camden. I asked her how old he was. She said 12. When she was all done with her work, I asked if it was okay for me to stay back in the lab portion to put Camden back in his carseat so I wouldn't disturb the waiting room when he cries. She said it was okay, but asked, "Do you mind if I cuddle him first? My son died last year." :( I wanted to burst out crying right then! Her son, born the same day as Camden 12 years ago, passed away---I don't know how she kept her composure while getting Camden's labs. :( I would have been crying so badly that someone else would have had to take over for me! I wanted to give her a hug, but instead just let her cuddle Camden for a while---I hope the snuggles helped her heart. Poor woman.

Then I went to my midwife's office. The ladies there snuggled Camden a bunch, too. Loved him! ;) The midwife checked the lump in my breast---she said it's not a plugged milk duct and with my lymphoma history, said they need to get it checked out. So, they scheduled an ultrasound for Thursday. She said not to panic, as they don't know what it is--could just be a benign lump---but they have to check it out. I'm so busy with Camden I don't know if I'll have a lot of time to worry about it, but it is concerning because it's the same shape/feel as the lump I had when I first discovered that I had cancer. I've been in remission for 9 years, and I'm paranoid that this could be it again. :( I really don't know how I would go through treatments and care for Camden---and for that most of all I pray that it is benign. I don't want my baby to suffer if I get sick. :( So. . .if you're the praying type---please pray that everything is okay. Thank you.

On a happier note, I weighed myself at the midwife's office. I've dropped 20 pounds already! 20 pounds in 12 days! HOORAY! 13 more pounds and I'll be back at my pre-pregnancy weight! :) :) :) So pleased! YAY BREASTFEEDING! :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

Sending my love to you at this time ^^ xxxx


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## DragonflyWing

I'll keep you in my prayers, Sierra.


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## helena

Oh Sierra, I don't pray but maybe I should start, with all the bad luck around me lately.
Thinking of you and wishing you all the best. If you have no other symptoms and the breast is providing milk well I can't imagine anything really bad going on..thinking of u xxxx

Oh the poor woman who lost her son. I would have been sobbing, I am still so easily moved. I think it's a permenant side effect of being a mum. I never used to be so sensitive.

Yay for breastfeeding weight loss! Xxxxxx


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## wamommy

Oh, Sierra... I would have lost it at the lab... how terribly sad! That poor woman. Hopefully Camden's cuddles eased her pain a bit.

I will keep you in my prayers tonight for sure. I can't imagine having to go through treatment and care for a little one. Hopefully you'll never have to find out! I'm so sorry you have to deal with this right now :hugs:

As for the weight loss, good job!! I've got about 20 pounds to lose still :( Hopefully the weather will warm up so I can get out and walk!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate it. 

Anyone else bothered by people kissing all over your newborn? DH's mom has been over for a few days, and she keeps kissing ALL over Camden. I know that she loves him and cares for him, but it just bothers me so much that someone else's slobber is getting all over my child. :( Especially during cold season--- I mean, she kisses his face, his hands, his head---everything! I know my hormones have to be playing a part in it, too, but still. . . And also, DH and I went out for an hour today while she watched him , and when we come back, she's all like "he's been awake this whole time and was just watching us---he really has been so much better about being awake". I know she was just making an observation, but to me, it sounds like she's trying to pretend that he does "more" around her than around DH & I. I like her and everything, it just bothers me a bit. . .and when she changes his diaper, she doesn't wipe him that well---there still is poop on him! I know she has good intentions and I shouldn't be thinking all of these things, but I'm just SO looking forward to her getting away from my son. I know it has to be hormones, but it scares me that I'm thinking this way because I know she'll be around him for the rest of his life. .. which she should be because it's her grandson. .. I dunno. . . anyone else have feelings like this or understand? I feel like a bad person. :(


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## helena

Oh Sierra, entirely normal! I have these thoughts all the time. Will write more later, but oh yes, I feel just like you a lot! Xxxx


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## DragonflyWing

I definitely understand, Sierra! My mom came for a visit a few weeks ago (we are in WI, she is in NY), and I was shocked at how little things like that irritated me. She rearranged all of the baby stuff, which I was originally glad about, since we needed to get organized...however, she moved things that I had already put away, and didn't tell us where she put things so we couldn't find anything! She also kissed all over the babies, but I didn't really mind that too much...she probably won't see them again until they are 11 months old, so I felt like she was entitled to some smoochies. 

She REALLY bugged DH, though. She must have been treading lightly with me, since she knew I was really hormonal, but after she left, DH told me she was really letting him have it...telling him that we need more smoke detectors in the house (we have the recommended number), nagging him about blocking fire exits (we have one door blocked, but there are 4 additional exterior doors available), refusing to swaddle the babies and taking their blankets off because SHE was hot, rushing when warming their milk so they had to drink it cold, criticizing the way DH dressed and changed them, etc. My mom is a pediatric nurse, so she thinks she knows absolutely everything about babies, and ONLY she knows what's best for them.

Good thing for her I didn't see most of this stuff while she was here lol, I would have been so angry. As it is, I'm still grateful she came, because she watched them so I could sleep :haha:


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## helena

The thing I hate is when someone else tried to soothe baby when crying. I feel like shouting "Nooo! Just give her to meeeee! :( "
My sister in aw drives me nuts with her comments on Facebook photos " my beautiful neice" "oh my nephews are so cute" " I miss my adorable nephews" "my neice is so lovely". MY MY mY....no, they are MINE if you don't mind. I wouldn't mind, but we have lived in France all my kids lives and not once has she come here to visit HER nephews.....
It's all irrational but bugs the hell out of me.
Also, we have been seeing a lung specialist for my eldest who has lots of bouts of bronchitis and pneumonia over the last 2 years. Seems he has a strange reaction to viruses that to other kids would just be a mild cough. Anyway, MIL kept suggesting, all out of the blue, that kids get respiratory infections from being licked by dogs.. Now he did used to play with my mums dog, and it did lick him (he loved that dog, if I told him to stop her licking him he would encourage her more!). Funny though (sarcasm) the lung specialist never once asked about dog licks.....
So annoying, like MIL blames us for my sons pneumonia... It's not a weird infection, i feel like sceaming, it's a normal cold virus that brings him out in a kind of asthma attack. Nothing canine!....grrrrr 

Oh dragon, I had MIL rearranging things too, drove me bonkers. Not only baby things but other things. Suddenly towels were in a different cupboard, clothes put in the wrong kids wardrobes..she is only trying to help I guess but I felt invaded. Like when she would go into my kids room after they got up, open windows, make beds, strip and wash their sheets (like they were dirty)..I didn't like it!like that's my job...

I guess its down to Hormones...and us being mums now...we are different :)


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## DragonflyWing

It's true...motherhood really does change you. I feel a lot different in many ways.

Another example of unwanted rearranging: My sister-in-law and brother-in-law came over to help clean after the babies came home. I was so grateful for the help, but specifically asked them not to organize, just clean (I was afraid DH's important paperwork might get moved). Well, after they were gone, I went into the bathroom to find that they had moved EVERYTHING. They reorganized all the cabinets, the drawers, the closet...nothing was where I'd left it. They even moved my pads, tampons, and nursing pads, etc. I don't know about you, but I consider my bathroom drawers and cabinets to be intensely personal spaces. Not only was I angry that I couldn't find any of the things I use every day (they moved my hairbrush to the closet, wtf?), but I was also embarrassed that they had handled all my personal stuff.


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## wamommy

Yikes... I would feel so violated! My Mom came to stay for 2 days after the baby was born, but she knows me well enough to know that I would freak out if she organized anything. With the last baby I had a hormonal "freak out" and snapped at her for loading the dishwasher wrong :blush: so I think she knows I can be somewhat... erm... particular about how things are done post-baby.


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## SierraJourney

Wow- I'm so glad I'm not alone in my feelings! Sometimes I feel like a super protective mother lion or something- wanting to lash out at anyone trying to be too involved with my baby! :rofl: the other day, dh's mom had Camden and he started crying- I knew he was hungry and,so I said id nurse him- she goes "oh we'll be okay, I'll just walk around and play music for him " excuse me?! It's my baby, he's hungry, I have the food!! I wish I could be more rude but I didn't say anything more.. Camden was so hungry layer that I really wish I would have. :( I'm just not that bold. I feel bad that I didn't stick up for my son. :(
Speaking of food, when we were out for only an hour the other day, mil fed Camden TWO bottles- which is all I had stored up at the moment- after I had specifically told her that he just ate and wouldn't need any food! Breast milk is priceless and she just used it because dh says, she likes to feed him". Wth?! So I had to find another time to pump that night just so id have some more milk stored up! That bothered me soooo much! Argh! 

Anyways... different topic- changing Camden before bed tonight was a very interesting ordeal.. . Even though we had his penis covered, he ended up shooting pee onto his face and onto the wall behind him, then vomited all over himself, then while his diaper was off he shot poop across his dresser and onto everything that was on his dresser/changing table! Poor guy was wailing away while Dh and I were cracking up laughing! :rofl: glad we could see the humor in the situation amidst the cleanup! :)


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## DragonflyWing

LOL Sierra- that happens to us all the time! It's like Gunnar waits for the microsecond that he's uncovered, then lets it all loose. 

I just wish DH could see the humor in it...he just gets angry. One time he actually yelled "You've got to be @$%& kidding me!" so loud that it woke me up in the other room. I came running out, and poor Gunnar was crying so hard he could hardly breathe, and both he and DH were covered in pee and spit-up. Apparently he'd had a diaper explosion so bad that DH had to put him in the bath, then he pooped in the bath, then while DH was dressing him, he peed and barfed on both of them...and DH lost his patience and yelled. I felt so bad, because I understand why he was frustrated, but poor little Gunnar doesn't know any better, he couldn't help it! I think DH felt guilty about it, because he's been much more patient lately. HOWEVER, he still gets peed on a lot, because for some reason he refuses to cover Gunnar while he changes him. He claims that it doesn't work, but it's funny how I never get peed on, and he ends up changing Gunnar's clothes like three times a day.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Dragon! That's hilarious! Poor DH and poor Gunner! We cover Camden up every time too, but usually once a day, he gets us! What do you use to cover up Gunner? We use wipes, but I'm wondering if those get cold too quickly and make him pee anyways? I hate it when Camden is crying that badly---it makes me cry. :(


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## wamommy

:rofl: Dragonfly... that made me laugh!! It sounds exactly like my DH. I usually offer to change the "blow outs" to avoid DH getting frustrated and making it worse for the baby, lol.

Sierra, I use wipes when I'm out, but at home I've found the best (and most absorbent!) thing to use is baby wash cloths. I found a pack of 20 for $5 or so, and I just drop one on there each time. If it gets peed on it absorbs most of it...lol. I've also found that the warm and cozy changing table cover is totally useless. It's in the laundry more than on the table!! 

How are everyone's hormones doing? I've been hot-flashing and mood-swinging all day, and I'm confused. I thought by 3 weeks post partum I'd be close to normal? Argh...


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## SierraJourney

I'll have to try the washclothes--see if they help more! Thanks!

I haven't noticed my hormones much. . . is that weird? I keep expecting to be hit by them, but I feel fine. . . (except for the tiredness---then I might shed a couple of tears if he doesn't sleep well on a certain night!) :) The first couple of days at home were hard---I cried because I missed DH and we didn't have any time together without baby. :( But I've been loads better since.. . 

However, I've been FREEZING cold lately! I'm not sure if that is hormones or because I no longer have a bump, but DH will be out of the blankets at night because he's hot, and I will have 4 blankets on me and be shivering all night! I can't get warm--even during the day. It's wretched! Anyone else have this?!

Camden is having a bad day today--and a bad night last night. :( He has almost exclusively nursed from 2:30a.m. to present (it's almost 5p.m. our time right now)! He's had 3 half-hour breaks where he slept a bit since then, but other than that, he's been on my breast! Is this okay? Or normal? Google says it can be normal for newborns, but he's never nursed this much and he's never had this little sleep! If he isnt' nursing, he's crying. . .I just laid him down again 5 minutes ago, and he's doing okay so far, but he is wiggling and wimpering a bit in the cot. :( . .. I'm hoping he gets some sleep. I feel bad, but don't know what else to do to console him. It makes me feel like my milk isn't enough today or something! Other days he seems fine, though. :(


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## DragonflyWing

I use wipes out of the wipe warmer to cover him up, but we've been thinking about trying washcloths instead...thanks for the tip!

I think that's normal, Sierra. We've had some days where all they want to do is nurse/eat. I think maybe it has to do with growth spurts and increasing milk supply.

We're having a rough day with Lilja...she screamed all night and pretty much all day so far. She's only stopped long enough to sleep for a half hour here and there. Sometimes holding her soothes her, but sometimes she screams even then. I can't figure out what's wrong...sometimes it's like she just wants to be held and stops immediately when we pick her up, but other times she seems truly upset. I was concerned she was in pain of some kind, so I gave her some Tylenol a little while ago. She fell asleep almost immediately, so I wonder if she's having some pain from all the vaccines she got on Thursday. Poor baby. I'm working from home, and it's so difficult not to go to her right away when she cries...but DH is on duty and I need to get work done.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, that sounds exactly like what Camden was doing! Glad to know it's normal, but it's so heart wrenching isn't it?! We thought he might be in pain too but didn't know if we could give tylenol this early?is there a newborn tylenol?

I'm working half days from home but it's all me because dh is at work... so I have to get him when he cries- making work nearly impossible! Ah well.. . I won't get these days back I know, so I try to enjoy every minute. :flower:


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## Midnight_Fairy

Jades same age as your boy and fed loads and slept little last few days!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks midnight! Must be a growth spurt?


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## Midnight_Fairy

Shes been awful today just wont sleep and is fussy and constantly hungry


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## SierraJourney

Aww midnight I'm sorry! That's so hard! I hope it gets better for you! ! The day has just started here so we'll see how Camden does!


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## DragonflyWing

Yes there is an infant pain & fever liquid suspension...the label says to consult a doctor for babies under 2 (which is weird, since it specificically says infant formula, and 2 year olds aren't infants!). I checked with the doctor and she gave me the dosage to use. There is also a chart here: https://www.cmg-pc.com/news-topic.php?newsid=19

It does say to check with a doctor before giving Tylenol to a baby under 3 months.


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## helena

Kiara has just finished 4 days of being not so angelic too so it probably is a growth spurt? She is a couple of weeks older but maybe it's linked to the due date!? She was a bit clingy and moany for two days and then just awful for two days, wouldn't let me put her down without screaming, wanted to feed every hour at one point. Would not sleep in her cot. I was scared she would be like that for ever!...but then last night was back to real, and today and yesterday was so much better, I had my arms back!..


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## wamommy

How funny that everyone's babies seem to be having a fussy time lately. It's the same thing here! He's not a fussy baby by any means, but he wiggles and grunts to be picked up, and will eventually cry if I don't do it  The last few days he hasn't been sleeping as much, and it 's been really hard to get anything done! I wonder if it's the 3-week growth spurt I've read about?


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## Blue_bear

Matilda has been fussy too but also really sicky. Have been backwards and forwards to the doctors and she's now on gaviscon and lactose free formula, seems much better so far. She just hates being put down which is hard gong when you also have a clingy toddler. 
I've given up trying to get her in the crib or basket now and have decided to just co-sleep instead, we at least get decent sleep this way.


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## SierraJourney

Wow-- glad my baby isn't the only one going through a fussy period right now! But so sorry you all are going through it too!! Camden has been loads better today! Had a doctor's appointment and he is back up to his birth weight!! YAY!! I keep looking at him and saying, "so this is the size of baby that really came out of me!" :rofl: He looks so big! haha


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## Kellen

Teagen had this same thing going on this past Wednesday. She would eat and then sleep for 30 min before waking up and demanding more food. I finally gave her a bottle of breastmilk every other feeding because she raised a blister on my left nipple and it hurts like no tomorrow.

Today her poop is slightly green and frothy. Apparently this is because she isn't getting an even balance of fore and hind milk. This isn't too surprising because she hasn't been wanting to hold a latch to eat today and pulls herself off after only 10 minutes. A bit frustrating for me.

At least she sleeps well at night, four hour stretches. We are having to move out newborn diapers into size 1. The other night we were visiting a friend when a friend of theirs came over with their 3 month old baby girl. The babies were the same size. Teagen's feet were actually longer. lol. I am excited for her 1 mo checkup on Tuesday.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen, that IS frustrating! I hope she starts nursing better! :( We're transitioning to size 1 diapers, too! The newborn diapers are too short on the bum for him. . .and his bum is really skinny, so it just pulls rigth off! The size 1 is much taller and covers him better---and saves me from having to wash poo out of his sleepers! Keep us updated on her check up! So exciting! 

I'm still waiting for the results o my breast lump ultrasound. . . :( It's taking forever! I hope I hear something on Monday! 

We are getting family/newborn pictures done on Wednesday--- I'm sooooo excited to document this stage in Camden's life! 

Does anyone venture out much with your baby? Camden always seems to be screaming in his carseat---or too hungry for us to go out. :( I want to go out to a restaurant as a family, but am too afraid of Camden screaming the entire time or having to breastfeed in public! lol


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## helena

Hi all, it's been a while!..

We ate out once Sierra. I don't have a problem nursing in public, so I can guarantee Kiara won't scream too much anywhere - seems she will happily latch on at any time. Don't feel shy - just wear a scarf I say :)

Kellen, our doc once told us that newborn poo can be anything. From green to yellow. It could be your baby has just got more efficient and ten minutes gets the job done? Maybe?

I am feeling pretty wiped out at the moment, I think all the feeding is draining me. There is only just over 5 kilos (12 pounds) to Loose until my pr pregnancy weight, and I feel the weight loss is too fast, though of course I am glad the numbers are going down..
Kiara just always seems hungry, I must eat more. I think my diet is pretty much normal for me, maybe I should add more snacks. Apart om feeling shattered this is one reason I love breastfeeding - being ale to eat what we like!..

It was bedtime for us at 9pm tonight..how Friday nights have changed!!lol.

Hoping you get good news from your tests soon Sierra. I have an appointment with my doc in two weeks, I will be asking for the genetic testing for the breastcancer gene. If positive I will plan a double mastectomy for when I have finished feeding the baby. 

Have a lovely weekend with your babies all, hoping we all get lots of sleep...Kiara keeps changing her mind as to wether sleep is an essential nighttime activity or not... Xx


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## Jo_Bean

Just popping in to say hello and let you girls know that Olivia came home today! :yipee:

She has a feeding tube and we aren't out of the woods as far as test results go, but she's feeding from a bottle now and she's doing great! Lots of improvement :smug:

We're so happy! It feels like we're just starting now, even though she's almost a month old, we are just starting out with our newborn! 

I'm totally not sleeping tonight!


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## DragonflyWing

We haven't taken the babies out at all except to doctor appointments, nor have we had any visitors except for my mom and my sister who came to visit from NY. No one in DH's family has even met the twins yet! The neonatologists in the NICU told us not to take them anywhere or have any visitors until cold and flu season is over. The only exception was when I took Lily into a Burger King on the way home from the lactation consultant. I just had to have some fries! :haha: I did keep her her carseat cover closed so no one could breathe/cough/sneeze on her.

When I was in the hospital before the babies were born, I had a CT scan of my chest because they suspected a pulmonary embolism (just turned out to be fluid build up from the magnesium). They told me I have to have a followup CT scan with contrast because they saw some enlarged lymph nodes in my chest. At the time, I didn't even give it a thought, because I had a lot going on at the time, obviously. However, now I'm getting all nervous about it because I googled it (silly me) and there are lots of scary things that cause enlarged lymph nodes :(. Plus, I found some additional lymph nodes on my neck and armpit. My scan is on April 1st.


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## helena

Oh dragon, not knowing is Scarey. As is google. Try and assume it is nothing, it probably is xxxx
as a group we are haunted by potentially scarey health issues just now aren't we! :(

Hey Jo, congrats on getting your little lady home!!! Enjoy. Glad she is doing so well, what a clever girl!..

Dragon, hasnt it driven you mad not taking the twins out?...


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## wamommy

Kellen, Teagen sleeps 4 hours in a row at night?? Oh my... I'm so terribly jealous! I'm lucky to get an hour straight :( I'm sorry to hear breastfeeding is giving you a rough time! A blister on the nipple sounds like torture!

Sierra, good luck with your results! I'll be thinking of you on Monday. How scary :( It sounds like Wednesday should be fun, though! We attempted a home photo shoot, and it took 200 pictures to get TWO good ones... lol. I think we probably should have booked a professional!

Jo, congrats on bringing Olivia home! It sounds like she's doing so well, yay!! :D Go little lady, go!

Helena, only 12 pounds to go? Well done on the weight loss! I've got about 15 pounds to lose to get down to pre-pregnancy weight, but I have been eating MORE than when I was pregnant. I'm surprised I'm not gaining weight, lol. One of these days I'll cut calories and drop weight, but for now I'm just enjoying an excuse to not mind my weight for once!

As for venturing out of the house with LO, my DH is WAY more comfortable with it than I am. It's actually caused a few fights with us. He wants to go out and do all of the things we usually do... and I think we should stay home most of the time and limit trips to 1-2 hours that baby has to be in his seat. We go somewhere every day, but it's usually close to home. Today we walked the mall (exciting!!) with LO in his stroller with a blanket draped over the carseat to keep sneezing and fingers out! Sometimes we eat lunch out or take the older kids somewhere that is fun for them. We just avoid crowded or especially germy ones, like indoor playgrounds or even church. I can't wait for spring to come so that we can at least go for walks outside!


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## SierraJourney

Jo so exciting that Olivia is home! What a blessing! Sooo excited for you! 

Helena, does eating more make more breast milk? I'm eating normally but sometimes miss a meal because Camden is screaming or nursing etc.. however, he is always hungry and I feel like I should be getting more milk when I pump too, but I'm not getting more than a couple ounces each time.. though I only pump once a day because im usually nursing. 

How long do everyone's nursing sessions last? Camden usually nurses for an hour before he's full. Is that normal?

Helena, how do you keep covered getting baby latched in public? That's my fear. I can see a scarf or blanket over his head once he's latched, but Camden needs me to help him get on usually...

Dragon, that's super scary! I hope everything is okay... id stop Googling though... it's full of horror stories! Lol I'm sure things are totally okay- especially seeing how they booked your follow up so far out. If they were concerned it seems they would have booked it sooner. Try to stay calm and enjoy those babies! :flower:

Wamommy, my Dh originally wanted to just take pictures at home but we haven't done it yet and then Dh came home yesterday and surprised me by telling me we had pictures booked! He knew I really wanted some and did all of the research and organizing for it! :cloud9: 

Dh is more wary about taking Camden out in public than I am. Its mainly just the screaming thing- when Camden is hungry, ge is HUNGRY and lets the world know that he wants food NOW! :rofl: I would actually like to get out way more than we do... I might suggest we buy a nursing cover and just go for it. :flower:


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## helena

I usually wear a vest top with another top on top of that. The vest underneath I pull up to hide the top of the breast and the other top stays down to hide my tummy. I guess I just position baby's head in front of the nipple and get her to latch ASAP. If people really wanted to get a look at my np they could I guess, but they would have to be looking closely. I can also drape the scarf before latching baby, create a sort of tent. Have you googled nursing covers? I got one with my first. I found it more of a hindrance than a help but then I didn't mind a bit of sneaky nip exposure. You can get some very pretty ones, mine had butterfly's on it.

W have been out for walks with baby despite the minus degrees. She wears a vest, pjs, cadigan and then If I wrap her in a blanket and then in her sheepskin cosy-toes and a hat she is warm enough. Se doesnt have a coat of snowsuit that fits, she is so small still. She seems to really like being outside and looking up at the sky. We only go out for maybe half an hour or an hour at a time if it is cold (has been snow on the ground since she was born) but I keep checking her little cheeks don't get too cold. I know that in Scandinavia they still encourage babies to sleep outside when it is cold, and it encourages baby to nap longer. I like the edema she s breathing fresh cold air. https://www.treehugger.com/culture/let-sleeping-babies-lie-chilly-temps-build-tough-nordic-tots.html

I didn't wear my nipple cups last night, I am so fed up with wearing a bra 24/7, but after just one night of friction against clothes I am so sore! :( today I have resumed the Madonna look.

My LO also goes out every day, even if it is just to the school to collect my other sons. She has had a bit of a blocked nose, but wether that is from my sons or being out and about I don't know. Like your husband wamommy I feel we should carry on doing exactly what we were before, so we are pretty much. Baby alternates between car seat and carrier. We also have a carry cot tpe thing that slots into the pushchair but I'm not sure she likes being fully laying down much.

Sierra, I don't think eating more means we produce more milk necessarily. Unless we seriously don't eat enough. I think our babies are just growing lots :)


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## helena

My three babies https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_8BC43155.jpg


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## Midnight_Fairy

Aww lovely pic. Xx

Jade has been out all over from supermarkets, clinic, shopping centre etc she has been on school run every morning and afternoon because I have no choice lol she is content though when out (atm!) Hate all colds going around but inevitably she will get one anyway x


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## SierraJourney

Awww wonderful pic! How cute!! Thanks for the help!!


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## Kellen

Jo - How exciting that you finally get to bring Miss Olivia home. Congrats! I remember how excited I was the day before Teagen was released from the NICU.

Dragon - That sounds scary. I would stay away from Google at all costs. I hope it turns out to be an easily fixed problem.

We finally have the latching part of breastfeeding down pat. Teagen is now able to pull my introverted nipple out without the breast shield. It makes it sooo much easier. I've been slathering lanolin on my nipples and that seems to help. Today she is eating so much better. Given, I have a migraine so I've mostly had her in the bed with me. DH came home early from work and is now amusing the baby while I eat a late lunch. My normal monthly migraines went away after the first trimester and I was hoping that they would stay gone... I guess not.

Last night she slept for 6 hours straight. I was up every hour checking on her, but she was snoozing away. I feel super blessed that I have a champion sleeper at night. After 1pm though she is up and awake until 10 or 11pm. I'm rather okay with having an active afternoon baby and a sleeping nighttime baby.


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## wamommy

What a great pic, Helena! What beautiful kids :)

My LO has had a super stuffy nose, too. I've found the morning is especially bad. I spray saline up one nostril at a time, massage his nose a bit, then suck it out with the bulb syringe. I usually get a rather large booger or a long stingy snot :( sorry, tmi... lol Once it's out he is SO happy, though!

Sierra, I feel so fumbly nursing in public. The two older kids also know that once baby is latched I'm stuck and they stop obeying completely! I usually pump at home or fix a formula bottle for trips out. It's so much easier, since DH can feed him if need be. I have seen some breastfeeding covers that are gorgeous, though! I'd give one of those a try, or what Helena suggested sounds good. 

I hope you're all having a great weekend!


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## helena

I'm feeling down. Apparently my dad isn't doing too good. Seems the strain of the cancers treatment on my mum is taking its toll on him. He is down. It is so hard for me to not go and see them, but I really don't feel comfortable leaving Kiara for longer than an hour or to. The idea of flying to mother country for a couple of days doesn't sit well ith me, even if I put her on formula.
Eerone understands the baby needs me, but I really wish I could come and try and ease the burden and cheer people up a bit.
It's so unfair this all happened at the same time.
More positively Kiara had a much better night. She fed maybe 3 or 4 times instead of 2 but each time was short and she went to sleep right after instead of being awake for an hour or more post feed. I feel better. I decided to try and not change her diaper at all, and to much reduce winding her - both of these seem to wake her up too much. And i decided that if she co sleeps sometimes so we all get sleep its ok for now. And it all worked. She was a bit selly by morning, but no leaks or sore bottom (pampers are great!). And I only winded her a bit, but that worked it ok too. She had a lot more wind from the other end I noticed, so I guess the air passed through her, but she didnt wake in pain or anything. She slept in our bed between two feeds, so maybe for 2 hours, when we both fell asleep mid feed laying down, but then she happily let me put her back in her cot where she fell asleep relatively easily. She seemed extra relaxed after her extra closeness to me. It's clear she sleeps best right next to me. 
I was feeling drained before, breastfeeding, lack f sleep, two other children, the stress of my family issues back in the uk..it was all too much. So now I am relaxed my rules on co sleeping and burping etc for a while just to survive and to be happy.
I was keen to never co sleep after my first co slept for six months and was a difficult sleeper for two years...I didn't sleep with my second and he has always slept great. But I realize that every baby is different and my tactics need to be adaptable :)


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## Blue_bear

We're co-sleeping Helena, I'm just doing what I need to do to get through at the moment. It's still such early days xx


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## Kellen

We split our sleeping 50/50 with co-sleeping and the bassinet. It is right next to our bed so I can literally touch her while I'm sleeping if need be. In the mornings (around 5am after our second feed) I normally let her stay in bed with us. DH is fond of snuggling her and puts her in the crook of his arm and then they both pass out. Any daytime naps are mandatory co-sleeping as she will scream unless close to another person.

Since she is sleeping now I think I will go take a nap...


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena, I'm sorry things are rough 
:( I'm glad you're giving yourself permission to do whatever works right now! 

I WISH I could cosleep with the new baby. I didn't cosleep at all with DD#1m but then found DD#2 would only sleep if she was in bed with me... Despite my very best efforts DD#2 STILL sleeps in my bed :dohh: It wouldn't be safe to bring the baby in right now, with a thrashing toddler. If that weren't the case I would SO cosleep again. I think I would get a lot more sleep!! I was so desperate the other night that I almost moved with LO to the floor so we could both rest, lol.


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## helena

Cn you not squeeze other bed in anywhere wamommy? Let DH sleep with toddler and you take they baby in with you?!
It is tricky - both my boys have been asking to get in with us at various times since baby was born and I can't let them in case baby joins us..I would so love a spare bed in the baby's room!


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## wamommy

DH actually moved to the spare room so that baby won't wake HIM up in the night.... :ninja: :ninja: I put a toddler bed in my room thinking my 3-year-old would be ok sleeping in it as long as it was in the same room, but she refuses :(

For now, baby is in a pack and play next to my bed so that I can just grab him for feedings or cuddles during the night. I have a new goal!! This week I will try everything to get DD in her own bed. I will bribe! lol... anything to get some sleep. I don't think I've slept more than an hour straight in a month!


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## helena

Oh I feel for you!!...bribery is definitely the way! It works. 

Good luck x

Or get DH back in and you and baby take the spare room! Least that way he still avoids baby...but gets a 3 year old!...sounds very unfair to get both..
Right now my husband has the job of seeing to both boys if they call in the night while I see to baby a night.


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## DragonflyWing

It doesn't bother me not to take the twins out...we don't really go anywhere, anyway. I go to work during the week, and I go grocery shopping on Sundays, and that's about it. I would like for DH's family too meet them, but it will have to wait a bit longer. I think we'll take them it for the first time on Easter to see the family.

As for sleep, its almost impossible to co-sleep safely with twins in a queen size bed. We have the babies in a pack and play in the living room. DH gets up with them in the night so I can be rested for work (I still end up getting up at least once because I hear them crying), except on Friday nights when I help with night feeds. When they start sleeping in longer stretches, we'll move them into their crib in our bedroom. Once in a while DH will bring one of them in to sleep with me for an hour if he's afraid they'll wake up while he's feeding the other. They will often sleep longer with me than in their bassinet.


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## SierraJourney

Easter sounds like a good time to take the twins to see dh's family. 

I will only bring lo in our bed on weekends in the morning or an occasional weekday morning if I didn't get much sleep the night before. 

Yesterday was our first venture out as a family that wasn't a doctor appt. We went to the mall for two hours and Camden slept the whole time in his stroller. It was heaven to get out and feel like a real person again!!

Today once the office opens- it's 1am here right now- I have a meeting for work so have to bring Camden with me. Work is awesome and has arranged for someone to watch him in the office while I'm in the meeting but I'm so paranoid! It'll be super short but it's hard nonetheless to trust my baby to someone else- even a well experienced babysitter! I'm also worried how I'm going to get him out of the house that early- we're usually nursing on the couch at that time! My plan is to get myself ready around 5:30 after he finishes a feed- or around there- then when I'm ready, dress and feed him tons to hopefully keep him pretty content the whole time. I'm so nervous about him screaming in the office and upsetting the boss! I don't want anything to ruin the system of working from home and bringing him in for meetings! Oh I do hope everything goes well!


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra - try to relax about it as then Camden will also relax. If you are up right and worried, he'll sense that so stay chilled :thumbup: and good luck!


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## helena

People must expect him to cry Sierra, he is a baby. No one would expect him to be quiet all the time.

Enjoy xx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! Besides some crying and a massive diaper blowout- he did okay lol. The office loved him so that made me feel good! 

My ultrasound results came back suspicious, so I have to have a biopsy on Thursday. :( they aren't sure if it's cancerous or not until the biopsy results come back next Monday. I'm scared and worried. It doesn't look good :( I'm trying to hold my head up and stay positive since I don't know for sure... but its so hard ! :(


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so glad your meeting went well, but so sorry about your tests :( I can't imagine how scary it is! I know it's impossible to do, but try to carry on like everything will be fine! My Mom tells me something that always helps... she says not to worry... to save that energy in CASE you need it later. That always helps me a bit. Easier said than done, i know! A million :hugs:


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## helena

Oh Sierrra. 
Be extra grateful for your little one today - I have been so super grateful for my children since finding out about my mums illness as they keep me so busy it really kes stop me from thinking about it sometimes and that is a great thing. Keep busy with him, show him off, deal with those diaper blow outs. I find thinking positive to be very hard. But thinking later or not thinking is my coping mechanism when things get tough. A little bit of head in the sand maybe, more more just keeping busy. That and allowing myself a good cry when I feel life is too tough. Cancer is horrible, even the threat of it. So allow yourself a Cry then get busy with that gorgeous boy of yours. Children are great in times of crisis - they make us move on a d be normal. 

Xxxx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies- I'm so thankful that Camden keeps me so busy- it really has left me little time to worry about it. I snuggled him most all day yesterday.. didn't want to put him down. I love him so very much!

Not sure what's going on lately with all of the bad news, but I got a call from my mum last night saying my 18 month neice was almost abducted last night! It was so scary! Apparently my sister and a.friend were having lunch, and while my sister was paying, her friend was watching my.niece then my niece started running from her and in that instant an older man picked her up and started putting her in his car in an instant! My sister was able to get my niece back but is.obviously still shaken up about it! The police are working on it and believe the man has some mental problems... it shook up our family and made me hug my baby closer. :(


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## helena

Oh god how horrific!!!
Am not liking the start to 2013... Birth of beautiful babies aside. Lots of scary times.


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> Oh god how horrific!!!
> Am not liking the start to 2013... Birth of beautiful babies aside. Lots of scary times.


I completely agree! :(


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- I'm sorry about your tests! I hope everything comes back clear on the biopsy. *hugs*

I've started taking fenugreek supplements to increase my milk supply...I've dropped down into the 30oz range now :( That might seem like plenty to most, but it's about half what I need for twins. Right now it's not too terrible, because they're eating between 18 and 22 oz each, and since we have to supplement 25% with formula, I'm making just barely enough...but they're growing fast and will be eating more and more. Since I'm mostly exclusively pumping, and I can't increase the number of pumps per day, my body won't naturally increase the supply as they grow, so I need some help! I'm hoping the fenugreek makes a difference.

What's your favorite thing about being a mom? So far, my favorite thing is the smiles. Whenever I've been gone for a while, either sleeping or at work, and Gunnar hears my voice or sees my face, he smiles. Even if he's asleep, he'll open his eyes when he hears me and give me a big grin. It absolutely melts my heart every time. Lily doesn't smile much yet, at least not on purpose. Mostly just when she has gas! :haha:


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## Kim2012

Just popping to say hello.Still here baby girl not sleeping much and is colicky!!


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## helena

Think we may be colicky here too. That or two or three growth spurts in a row. Seems she changed around te time of her due date, so when she was 3 weeks old. Today little Kiara wasnt happy unless asleep or clamped on my boob....if she continues feeding like this - about 4 hours this eve! - I will be most definitely in that bikini by summer!


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## Kellen

I have a snoozing baby on my chest. She is growing like a weed. Today at our 1 month check up she weighed 10lb 4.5oz. The jaundice is officially all gone. The doctor did recommend that we start giving her a daily vitamin D supplement since breast milk doesn't contain any.

We have gone out a few times with her. My husband trains at the local dojo on M, W, F so when he wants to show off he bundles us up and takes us with him. The people there understand that I have a "You can touch her feet, but nothing else rule" that our pediatrician recommended. We have also gone to the grocery store and chiropractor with her.

My favorite part so far is watching her sleep with DH. She has also started to make adorable humming noises as she falls to sleep. And I am back in size 4 pants even though I'm 20lb from pre-pregnancy weight. However I did gain nearly 60lbs so I feel good about it.


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, I supplement due to low supply too, and have finally come to terms with it! I tried everything, and am still producing only 10-12 ounces a day! :( The way I figure it, something is better than nothing... and the twins are getting a ton! 

As for my favorite part of being a Mom, I'd have to say it's watching a little personality reveal itself. Every baby/child is so different that it's SO cool to see them start to become an individual.

Hi, Kim! I'm sorry to hear Brianna is having a rough time :( Hang in there!

Helena, don't dare say the "B" word (bikini)!! I'm not at all ready for that. I can put my own jeans on, but they won't button, lol. I'm still wearing my fave maternity jeans or cute sweat pants or yoga pants. I have to be honest, though, I haven't been trying to lose weight at ALL! DH and I started minding calories just yesterday, so we'll see how long it takes to lose these last 15 pounds.

Kellen, I'm so glad Teagen is doing so well! I've heard that a lot of breastfed babies, especially born in winter or in climates with little sun, need to supplement vitamin D. I'm so glad to hear her jaundice is gone!

My LO id doing well! He still doesn't sleep much during the night, but he's a very mellow baby. He only cries when he's hungry or cold, neither of which is very ofter, since he's constantly eating! We had a SUPER SCARY incident last night though. I was doing the dishes after dinner and DH was wiping down the dinner table. LO was in his pack and play in the kitchen near me, but my back was turned, and so was DH's. I turned around to see my 3-year-old "hugging" LO's legs and trying to pull him out of the pack and play!! I screamed and ran over. DD let go of the baby, who did a somersault and landed on his back inside the pack and play. I HATE to even imagine what would have happened if she'd pulled the baby out onto the hard wood floor. I still feel like I'm going to throw up thinking about it! :( Needless to say, I had a huge talk with DD about never picking up the baby, and tried really hard to not make her feel TOO bad while making sure she understood. She was so sorry... cried and cried... while I snuggled baby and made sure he was ok, all the while telling DD I loved her too, and wasn't "mad at her". UGH... DH's answer to the whole thing was to say, "see why you can't leave them all alone with me? Imagine what would have happened if you weren't here." Sadly, that's a valid point... It was a wake-up call to pay more attention at all times.

Other than that, we're doing great! LOL


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## helena

Babies are so bendy and resilient wamommy, don't give yourself too much of a hard time. How often do you hear of a baby actually injured by its siblings over loving them? I had a similar incident with my last baby - 2.5 yr brother picked him up. The worst thing I could have done was to shout NO! As then he dropped him. It was only from knee height, but I panicked. H was fine tho.
It is hard wanting the siblings involved but not too physical..

I may have used the B word, but no way am I in my own jeans yet!! Wow, well done!


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies- my biopsy got bumped up and I actually had it done at the last minute on Tuesday. I've been recovering since then, and am feeling pretty good today. Since it got moved earlier, I should have results today or tomorrow... I'm hoping today I'll hear something. 

So glad to hear everyone is doing okay. Dragon- let me know if that works! I'm wondering if my supply is okay.. lo.nurses all of the time, and I try to pump when he isn't nursing, but only get about 3 oz total each time I pump. Is that normal for only pumping once or twice a day in between feedings?

I'm also wondering if Camden is lactose intolerant because he spits up tons after each feed- like the size of his head amounts :( but sometimes there are some feeds that he doesn't spit up at all.. so I'm not sure. Any advice anyone?

Wamommy- id be so scared! So glad he's okay!!


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## wamommy

Keeping everything crossed for you, Sierra :hugs: :hugs: Praying for clear results!


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## helena

Hope u ok Sierra x x

My baby sleeps a lot, but when not asleep she is feeding or crying....
I don't think the fact Camden feeds a lot is a worry unless he isn't gaining weight?..it's probably just tasty and comforting. 
As for the spit up..some baby's just do. Could be some reflux? You can try Gaviscon for baby's. K also spits up a bit. It comes from way down and sort of squirts out and is really watery..I wonder if this is reflux..I bought Gaviscon after friends saying it did great things, but am having trouble getting her to swallow it. If it was very serious she wouldn't be gaining weight tho. Some babies are jus stick tho..
How do you get your babies to sleep in the evening? k will only doze off if I am next to her, preferably nursing her. I really want to break this habit but not sure how...if I lay her down awake and alone she just screams at the moment :(


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## DragonflyWing

SierraJourney said:


> Hello ladies- my biopsy got bumped up and I actually had it done at the last minute on Tuesday. I've been recovering since then, and am feeling pretty good today. Since it got moved earlier, I should have results today or tomorrow... I'm hoping today I'll hear something.
> 
> So glad to hear everyone is doing okay. Dragon- let me know if that works! I'm wondering if my supply is okay.. lo.nurses all of the time, and I try to pump when he isn't nursing, but only get about 3 oz total each time I pump. Is that normal for only pumping once or twice a day in between feedings?
> 
> I'm also wondering if Camden is lactose intolerant because he spits up tons after each feed- like the size of his head amounts :( but sometimes there are some feeds that he doesn't spit up at all.. so I'm not sure. Any advice anyone?
> 
> Wamommy- id be so scared! So glad he's okay!!

Hope you get your results and they are good! :hugs: 

So far I've been on the fenugreek for 4 full days, and I although I reek of maple syrup :haha:, I haven't seen a noticeable increase in supply...however, I did also get my period on Monday, and that can cause a temporary dip in supply, so maybe that's why. Just my luck that I'm breastfeeding twins, and I get my period back after two months :growlmad:. I think if you can pump 3 oz between feedings, Sierra, your supply is fine. 

Both my babies spit up quite a bit after they eat, Gunnar more than Lilja. Their doctor recommended I cut dairy from my diet for a week to see if it helped, but there was no change, and no change when I added it back. Now she has us adding a little rice cereal to Gunnar's formula (he spits up more with the formula than with the breast milk) to help him keep it down. That seems to be helping, in that he doesn't puke up his whole bottle anymore, but he still spits up pretty regularly. 

Having a bad day today :(. I woke up with a sore throat, so I decided to take the day off from work to rest and try to ward off whatever it is. So far I've only been able to sleep for about an hour (and it's 5:30pm so I would have been done with work already) because the babies have been screaming and DH has a migraine. He keeps telling me to just go to bed and let him take care of it, but I just can NOT relax when I hear one of my babies screaming their heads off in the other room. He is much more willing to let them cry than I am...when he's feeding one, and the other starts screaming, he'll just let them scream until the other is done eating. I just can't do that, it ties knots in my stomach and makes me feel like a terrible parent. 

A little while ago, I was jarred awake by Gunnar screaming (it woke me up even though I was in another room with the door closed and my white noise app running), and came out to find DH asleep 1 foot away from the babies, and Gunnar was crying so hard he was barely taking breaths and tears were streaming down his face. Somehow DH (and Lily, oddly enough) slept peacefully through the frantic shrieking. I worry that things like that happen when I'm at work and one or both of the babies cry themselves to sleep.

Lilja has been crying a lot lately, and we can't figure out what's wrong. She's fed, she's burped, she's changed, but she's unhappy no matter what we do. It doesn't seem like colic, because it doesn't last for hours on end and sometimes she can be soothed, but there are big chunks of time where we're just like "I don't know what else to try!"

Overall I just kind of feel like a bad mother today, I can't keep my kids happy.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon- I understand completely those kind of datys! Camden has some days where he's never happy and it makes me feel so bad! But trust me- you're a good mommy and doing great no matter how it feels! :flower:

Helena, Camden won't fall asleep at night unless he's eating. I usually give him a bottle of breast milk, burp him, then breast feed him until he drifts off. Sometimes he'll open up his eyes when I lay him down in his crib, but he's usually so full he can't stay awake. :lol: I wish I knew how to put him down awake, but he just screams if I do that! Anyone know what the trick is?

Thanks for the reflux advice! Glad my baby isn't the only one!


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## helena

Oh dragon you aren't a bad mum. These first fr month are hard for us, and baby. As I said, my little girl int happy unless asleep or feeding. Like your two, she doesn't cry for hours, and can done times be soothed ( mostly with milk.,) so it doesn't fit with the colic theory, but still...I think she has a touch of colic. Not fully blown screaming th house down colic but some. Life is hard for a baby. Pooping laying down is hard, the desire to be cuddled all day, trying to control those wiggly hand and arms, the need for milk RIGHT NOW! Etc etc.
My first was like this, my second chilled and content. But neither were actively happy until a bit older. Once chubbier and more developed.
Crying wont hurt them. You are meeting their needs, that's all we can do now. It's a pretty thankless job until they are a bit older and grinning and giggling at kicking with joy.
And your husband is like mine. I am feeding K in bed right now, she was just screaming and he sleeps on!...
Your husband is just tired, maybe he needs a break, migraines can be caused by tiredness, that's when I get mine. any chance anyone can help for a couple of hours?..
Gt well soon both of u x


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## helena

Sierra, u say Camden wants to feed all the time? Did you try a pacifier?may be he just needs to suck? My baby is a big sucker!
Hoping u got your results and they were good xxx


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## SierraJourney

It's not cancer!!!!!!!!! Hooray!!!!!!! They think it might be mastitis although I don't have any symptoms. They're going to call later and let me know what they find, but they did let me know that it's NOT. cancer! I'm so relieved! Thanks for your thoughts and prayers ladies!

Helena, yes he eats all of the time! We use a pacifier (he loves to suck!) But After a while he gets made at that and wants food! It's unbelievable! And soooo hard to feed all day!


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## DragonflyWing

Yay!! I'm so happy you got negative results, Sierra! I'm so relieved, so I can't even imagine how relieved you must feel!


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## helena

Congratulations Sierra! You must be so happy, enjoy the weekend!! xxxxx


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## wamommy

woohooo!!!!! So glad, Sierra!!! Phew! I'll bet you're over the moon!

:yipee: :yipee:


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## Jo_Bean

So pleased for you Sierra :wohoo:


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## helena

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chicco-060...f=sr_1_4?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1362832622&sr=1-4

Ws just given a second (or third?) hand one of these. Brilliant, just brilliant. After about 6 swings K dozed off. Happy and not in my arms, brilliant!!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! Im thrilled! Such good news! :). 

That's awesome Helena!! We have one but Camden has to be asleep before he's put in it- otherwise he cries :( you're so lucky she'll fall asleep in it! Hooray for free arms! :)


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## helena

Feeling a bit pnd ish. Keep crying. And things keep making me jump.
I thought it was just the news bout my mum, and mostly it is, but today everything seems bleak. My other two are being naughty and I hate it. They won't listen. DH wants to go out this eve, which is fine, but for some reason it made me want to cry.
I feel all pmt ish, like I could cry and get touchy about almost anything. 
Keep feeling mildly nervous and sick, my stomach churns like it is super stressed.

This better just be a blue day, I don't have time to be depressed. Just feels like it has been non stop tough stuff to deal with in the last 6 weeks. Most of the time I am ok..but just finding it hard right now. Maybe I will snap out of it soon and things won't be so grim.
Already feeling a bit better for writing this down,,.

Dragon, how is your mood these days? Your fears of pnd passed? Xx


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## Kim2012

Siera Thank god for negative results..what a relief

womommy -sibling issues, it must have been scary but I can relate DS 7 has been nowhere near babies till now caught him twice sitting ~Brianna and another time holding her upside down..because he was trying to smell he diaper!he just cant handle her and everytime i have to be watching him around her.
and he kisses her every second on the mouth oh that drives me crazy.I know it wont hurt but cant help thinking of all the germs and bugs on him when he is from sch...maybe i am being hormonal!

U are not alone in having a blue day helena...i have had some like that where i just feel overwhelmed and i cant figure out whats wrong with me .I try to console myself by saying that i need to be strong for my babies.Hope its just a phase that come to pass and u will feel better 

thanks for the link, i have been thinking of either a rocker or a swing.Looks like i will follow u and buy that one

Dragon maybe yo husband is just tired. I have had DH with Lo on the couch on his chest and she was crying while he was fast asleep.when i asked he said 'crying wont kill her'...yes it doesnt i know !!!

my best part of being a mum so far is the cooing sound when baby is relaxed and 'playing' on her own.she just looks so peaceful and my heart melts.And the smiles while she is fast asleep....(we havent had the real smile yet) cant wait for her smiles when she is awake


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kim! I understand about germs- I'm soooo paranoid about baby getting germs. 

Helena- I'm sure it's just a blue day and everything you've been through lately- I'm sorry things have been so rough! I hope your evening out goes well and it helps you feel a bit better. :hugs:


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## wamommy

Kim, forgive my question, but DS 7 is your son who is seven years old, or is it your seventh son? Sorry to be nosy, lol... just totally curious! Either way, he sounds adorable! Kids can be so well-meaning, but it's still scary having them around a newborn.

Helena, you have every right to have a blue day! I hope it passes and that you feel better. :hugs: With all that's going on, be kind to yourself and allow yourself a bad day now and then. 

I've been trying SOOOO hard to raise my milk supply that I'm exhausted. I let LO nurse when he wants to, but have to follow it with formula since he's still hungry. I pump about 4 times a day in addition to his feeds, and I'm FINALLY starting to see some improvement. Who knew breastfeeding could be so wonderful, and yet SO hard and full of emotions. One minute I feel like a failure and want to quit, and the next I'm ready to go a few more months... sigh... I hope it gets easier!


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## helena

Thanks girls, you are probably right.
Sierra, no it was just DH going out, I can't take the boobs away from ?k for more than two hours...yes, we were back to feeding every two hours yesterday!!..
I will buy a pump so I can go out sometimes, but for now I am happy not to, or just have hour long escapes!

Thinking of taking up running if my doc gives me the go ahead next week. I feel all that pounding along outdoors may help me.

Wamommy, you are doing an amazing job keeping up with your breastfeeding! Well done! Xx

Happy British Mothering Sunday!


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## Jo_Bean

Happy Mother's Day to you all (from the UK where it's actually Mother's Day today!) :flow:


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy so glad to hear you are getting some improvement! That's wonderful!!!!! Soooo excited for you! I'm also glad to hear it's possible because Camden has been needing formula after his early evening feed lately because he's still hungry. The other feeds he seems to be fine, but in the evening he'll just cry and cry because he wants more. So we've been giving him formula after that one. So I'm trying to pump in the evening more so I build my supply up. Its been frustrating for me- I can't imagine how frustrated you get-- but keep it up!! Its brilliant you're seeing so much progress!

Helena, we're feeding almost every 2 hours during the day too. Nights are more stretched out but the days it seems he eats every 2 hours or even more!


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## helena

Kiara has it the wrong way around,generally every 3 or 4 hours in the day, every 2 in the night....doh!

Am also wondering about a bottle in ther evening as she just wants to feed all evening long. Am not sure if it is hunger or comfort, probably comfort as I am sure I have plenty of milk, her night time feeds make sure of that. 

She is a lot more alert today it seems, and I can feel she may start to grin soon - a couple of times I have been almost sure she almost smiled (while awake) Can't wait :) that could be just what I need!

Gorgeous weather here, 13 or 14 degrees though feels warmer in the sun. Bright sunshine, blue sky. I even took Kiara's hat off briefly yesterday so she could feel the world properly. It is so nice getting her out more, she slept happily in the garden yesterday afternoon while I had a play outdoors with my boys. Felt so great after a long hard winter.


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## SierraJourney

helena--the bottle is magic for us--- puts him right to sleep! It's getting warmer here too--- you playing in the garden with the boys sounds lovely--- I can't wait for proper Spring weather without all of the snow! :) 

I can't wait for that smile, either! 

Hope today is going better for you! <3


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena, playing outside sounds wonderful!!! It's still too cold here, but I think by next month we should be able to take the girls to the park or walk along our favorite route. There's a golf course near our house that's right on the water and has a 3-mile walking loop that I miss terribly. I think it will help with the baby weight too!

Someone please slap me. I've gotten into the horrible habit of calling LO "Buddy" and I hate it! Why do I do it?? LOL Poor guy. DH calls him "Dude" which is equally bad! Do you guys have any nicknames for your babies?


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, I've caught myself calling him buddy on occasion too! And I don't like it at all! I've been getting a bit better at it though-- and have switched to calling him "Lovey ", which I'm sure he'll hate when he's older :lol: but I like it. :).


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## Dani402

Please add Nicholas -- February 11th :)


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## helena

Do your little ones have a regular bedtime yet? I would love K to go to bed at 7 ish with her brothers but she seems to have developed at 9.15 ish sleepy time all by herself. Whatever I do she is awake until then, and then conks out. Would like her in bed earlier to have a bit of a child free evening though it must be said....


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## Kim2012

wamommy said:


> Kim, forgive my question, but DS 7 is your son who is seven years old, or is it your seventh son? Sorry to be nosy, lol... just totally curious! Either way, he sounds adorable! Kids can be so well-meaning, but it's still scary having them around a newborn.
> 
> Wamommy ...LOL couldnt stop my imagnation running away with me as to how I would manage with 7sons:haha:... DS is my son who is seven years.
> 
> About names for LO I think you are much better atleast you have nicknames. My son still refers to his sister as 'the baby' and it irritates me


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## wamommy

Dani402 said:


> Please add Nicholas -- February 11th :)

Congrats. Dani!! Haven't seen you in a while. I'm so glad to hear that Nicholas came safely into the world :D I've added you!


Helena, My girls don't even have a set bed time, much less the baby!! It's actually been a big fight around here. We've been trying to get the girls on a schedule, but they refuse to go to bed. They just keep coming downstairs over and over, and eventually it's less work just to let them watch Tinkerbell on the tv before going up with us.

As for the baby, he's totally backward. He sleep off and on all day, but mostly from 4-10pm. By the time I go to bed he's ready to party all night! I actually got one 2-hour stretch last night, but generally he only sleeps 30-45 minutes, up for an hour, repeat. It's torture. DH has started taking the baby in the mornings for an hour or 2 so I can get SOME sleep, otherwise I think I might die :dohh:

Kim, ohhhh a son who is 7 makes so much more sense! 7 sons is difficult to imagine... lol
My girls call the baby "brother" or "the boy" lol. I'm not sure why, but I'm trying to break them of it too.


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## SierraJourney

helena, Camden doesn't have a "set" bedtime, yet, but we usually start our bedtime routine (change him, give him a bottle of breast milk, nurse him, put him in his crib) around 8:30 or 9p.m. every evening. He is usually sleeping by 9:30p.m. most nights, but it's not really a science yet. I, too, would like him to have an earlier bedtime so DH and I can have some more time together (we usually go to bed when Camden does because we're so exhausted), but I don't know how to implement an earlier bedtime quite yet. . .because he's usually super fussy before that time. :( I'm going to ask the doctor tomorrow for tips---or at least ask if it's too early to start trying to put him down at a set early bedtime yet. 

Do you ladies let your lo wake up by themselves in the night to feed or do you wake them up to feed them? We've been letting Camden sleep as long as he wants---which sometimes is 6 or 7 hours. . but I've read that might not be good for them? He is gaining weight well though! 

wamommy, I feel so bad for you with being up so late in the night! :( I feel very fortunate!


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## wamommy

Thanks, Sierra! I feel sorry for myself sometimes too, and have to remind myself that this stage is a short one, and sleeplessness won't last forever.

As for feeding, I think it's fine to let him sleep. Your milk supply should be fine by now, so I wouldn't worry. My LO only eats an ounce or so (even bottle) at a time, which is one reason I think he wakes up so much. He's always hungry!

Oh, I meant to tell you, I like "Lovey" a lot!! My LO's middle name (well, one if them... he has 2) is Love. Maybe I should retrain myself to say Lovey instead of Buddy, too! :) Buddy sounds like the family dog, lol.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! :) I think it's cute! I didn't know your lo had two middle names! What is the other one? How cool! My DH wouldn't let me have two middle names for Camden--otherwise I would have done two names, too! :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

My son still calls jade " the baby" so annoying!


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Thanks wamommy! :) I think it's cute! I didn't know your lo had two middle names! What is the other one? How cool! My DH wouldn't let me have two middle names for Camden--otherwise I would have done two names, too! :)

LO is named after his daddy, who is (his mom's maiden name is Takasawa, she's Japanese) and Dewayne is his Dad's middle name. I didn't want a true "Junior" so we changed it to be :D Since ALL 3 other names are from DH's heritage, I kind of feel especially attached to Love. My daughters' middle names are Hope and Faith, so it all kind of goes together :D


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy that is soooo sweet! How very special! You could always call him by the nickname love- then it would be your special thing. At any rate, great idea on the names :)


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## DragonflyWing

helena said:


> Dragon, how is your mood these days? Your fears of pnd passed? Xx

I'm sorry you weren't feeling well! My mood has improved, and I don't think I'm depressed...but sometimes I still cry, mostly because I feel guilty when I go to bed at night and leave DH to take care of the babies (I have to get up for work so he takes night duty). Last night I cried because we're selling my car, and I was upset that I'm not going to have my own car anymore :haha: It was like the one thing that was truly mine lol...I will miss it.



wamommy said:


> Someone please slap me. I've gotten into the horrible habit of calling LO "Buddy" and I hate it! Why do I do it?? LOL Poor guy. DH calls him "Dude" which is equally bad! Do you guys have any nicknames for your babies?

I don't really have a nickname for either of them, but I do call them every name under the sun. Gunnar tends to be "honey bunny" and Lilja is "Lily bug" but I call them everything from "smooshie face" to "stinky butt" LOL...whatever pops into my head. I've been making an effort to call them by their names because I'm afraid they won't learn them if I call them a million other things.


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## helena

6 or 7 hours Sierra! Wow. No I,wouldn't wake him. Kiara feeds when she wakes. Otherwise I am happy to sleep!..usually 2-3 hours. Max 5 hours, but more often she wakes every 2. Oh wamommy you must be shattered!!


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## SierraJourney

I feel very fortunate. The doctor was surprised yesterday too and even suggested we start trying to put him down awake once in a while to start training him to keep this schedule.

Well tonight starts my return to playing concerts. Prayers would be appreciated. We have one show tonight, two tomorrow, and one on Saturday and one Sunday. It's going to be fun but exhausting. Camden will be coming along with us, as will my mum to watch him during each show. I've prepared less than i usually do because I haven't had much time to practice with Camden. And I'm still kind of weak from labor- it's hard to have endurance for 3 hour concerts. I really hope it all goes well. But I'm so excited to get back to our normal playing again!!


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## DragonflyWing

Good luck, Sierra :) Knock 'em dead!

Gunnar slept *so* well last night! He had a bottle at 8pm, then went right down and slept straight through until 3am when DH finally woke him up because he was worried lol. He took another bottle then, and went right back to sleep until almost 8am! That's 12 hours with just one feeding! I was amazed, they've never gone more than 5 hours between feedings before. Gunnar has started eating more during the day, about 6 oz per feeding vs. 3-4 for Lily, so I think he's getting most of his calories during the day so he can sleep longer at night. I hope that continues, and that Lily starts to follow his example soon :) She's almost 2 pounds lighter than him, though, so it may be a while before she can go more than 4 hours between feedings.

Unfortunately, that didn't mean DH got a good night's sleep, because Lilja was up half the night yelling to be held or entertained. However, she slept from 4:30 to 8:00, so he did manage to get about 3.5 hours.


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## Kellen

Our pediatrician was also impressed that Teagen sleeps 6-7 hours a night. We are trying to establish a bedtime routine. So far it has been.

9pm: feed off both breasts until around 9:40
10pm: put the baby in pack n play
10:30: give bottle of breast milk with added vitamin D supplement
11pm: lights out and Teagen is asleep
5:30 or 6am: wake up

I would like it to be earlier, but if I start before then she wakes up at 11 and refuses to go to sleep before 2am. We also take a 3-4hr nap in the morning and are awake in the afternoons.

It looks like we will (fingers crossed) be moving to Oregon within the next few months. My grandma has offered us her house and I've been offered a part-time job helping manage a chiropractic office. Now we are just waiting to hear back on some shipping applications DH put in for.


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## wamommy

Good luck, Sierra! Sounds so fun :) And very cool to include Camden!

Helena, I am shattered, lol. Unfortunately, it's getting worse. I think I may have had 1 hour at most of consistent sleep last night, and the rest in bits and pieces. DH (who moved rooms to not have to wake up at ALL) got up at 10:00am today!!! I could have punched him in the face... :ninja:

You are all so lucky, lol. As a third time mom, you'd think I'd be able to encourage more sleep! I have a dental cleaning today, maybe I can take a nap then, lol.


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## helena

Haha yes take the time for a snooze in the dental chair! Seriously, you need to have words with DH.....you will burnt out! Then what will he do...

Or evening routine for baby will have to be much shorter. Tends to be...

6pm - 9pm doze and feed constantly. 9.15 crash out in mum or dads arms or on baby bean bag in living room.
I must change this. Think I will go for the cry it out route when she is maybe four months if she continues to be as clingy in the evenings. And I may introduce a bottle supplement in the evenings too. We is just so hungr all evening....

For now I will enjoy the extra cuddles :)

Yesterday evening I took a break from the monster feed and we had a bath together, K and I. It was so so lovely!!


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## wamommy

A bath with LO sounds wonderful, Helena! I tried it with DD#1 and she was so tiny and slippery that I was a ball of anxiety. She started screaming (probably picked up on my nerves) and I got out super fast. Maybe this baby is different though, and may enjoy it? I like to think I'm more relaxed this time, too, which may help :D

The dentist was a true nightmare. Apparently I'm 1 in a million... yes... that's what 3 dentists and 2 hygienists told me, anyhow. I can't get numb on the bottom teeth. Seriously. I had 20 shots of novocaine, and they had to stop because I was shaking form the epinephrin in the shots and they were afraid to do any more. All I was there for was a "deep cleaning," which you have to be numb for because they scale down under the gums to get everything beneath the gum line. Luckily they were able to do the top pain free, and I let them do the bottom by hand instead of using the ultrasonic tool thingy that hurt so badly I had tears streaming down my face in the chair :( They only did one side an appointment, so I had to go back again the next day knowing what was going to happen. I walked in and they all said, "we didn't think you'd show up today!!" Ugh... 3 natural childbirths and I'd have to say I'm way more terrified of the dentist :dohh:

I've decided to do something for myself! Every time I catch a glimpse of my body in the mirror as I dress, I'm totally upset with how it looks. I've always been rather thin, and had a really easy time getting my body back after my girls. This time I'm NOT happy :( I just decided to do Jillian Michaels' 30 Day Shred! I don't particularly like Jillian, but it's only 20 minutes a day, and supposedly works super well. I plan to start Wednesday after the 6-week go-ahead from my Dr. I'll take measurements, weights, and everything. I hope it works!! It can't hurt, anyway.

How is everyone else doing?


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## DragonflyWing

Oh you poor thing! I don't like the dentist either, but it must be terrible not even being numb! Good luck with the 30 day shred :)

I'm doing ok, and the babies are doing great. When we weighed them yesterday, Gunnar was 10lb5oz and Lilja was 8lb5oz!! Seems weird to think that when we came home, they were only 6 oz apart at 5lb4oz and 4lb14oz...Gunnar has gained over 5 pounds in 2 months! He's such a good little eater.

When I weighed Lily yesterday, I was taking her right in for a bath afterward, so I just folded a diaper over her but didn't tape it closed. Well, she managed to pee out the side of the diaper and leave a trail all the way to the bathroom before I felt it sprinkle my feet :haha:

I can't believe how big they're getting! Here are some pictures:
 



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## SierraJourney

Good luck with the 30 day shred! Sounds brutal! I get officially weighed next Tuesday at my 6 week appointment (I don't own a scale), so if the results aren't that good, I might have to start some exercise. . . :) Not sure how I'll find the time to, though! haha

The dentist sounds horrible wamommy! :( I'm so sorry!!

Dragon, the twins are gorgeous! What sweeties! 

What size clothes are everyone's lo's in? Just today I noticed Camden's newborn outfits starting to get a little short. I think I'll be transitioning to 0-3 here this week or so. . .

I've had an eventful week--the biopsy spot ended getting bacteria in it, which has left me with mastitis. :( It's horrible and I've been having chills and sweats and vomiting. They put me on antibiotics on Monday, so I'm hoping they start working here shortly. :( 

Camden has had a diaper rash that just won't go away. :( I feel so bad. The doctor told us to use calmoseptine and desitin after each diaper change and to use a warm washcloth to wipe. . . It will get better for a while, but then it will flare up again. :( I feel sorry for the poor guy, but don't know what quite to do. . .

Has anyone attempted dtd? I was going to wait until after my 6 week appointment next week, but wondering if it'd be okay this week? I feel fine, really, and think it'd go okay. Anyone else attempt it? Does it hurt the first time? Does it feel different than it did before?


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## DragonflyWing

Oh no, Sierra, I'm sorry about the mastitis! That's terrible, I hope you feel better soon.

Gunnar is mostly in 0-3 month clothes now, although he still fits in his newborn onesies...he must have long legs! Lily is still in newborn clothes, although she's over the 8lb limit now. She's swimming in 0-3 month outfits still, the little peanut.

DH and I tried DTD at 7 weeks postpartum, and even though I had a c-section, it was still difficult. In fact, we had to stop in the middle because it was hurting me...it was like (TMI) he didn't fit anymore. We hadn't done it in about 3-4 months, and I guess I shrunk or something :haha:! However, the next time we tried at 10 weeks, it was fine.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--that's what I'm worried about! (That, and ripping again, although my tear is completely healed now. . .) :haha:


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## wamommy

I'm worried about the same thing! Honestly, I have ZERO desire to dtd right now anyhow. I'm way too tired and a little resentful that I'm not getting more help with the baby. If I remember the last 2 times, though, it wasn't too bad. I think it's kind of like stretching your muscles in the morning... it doesn't hurt, but everything feels a bit stiff.

Our little guy is into 0-3 month sleepers now. There are a couple newborn ones that still fit, but for the most part his legs can't stretch all of the way out in them! It's amazing how much sizes can vary by brand. The funny thing is, he's still in Newborn diapers, lol. I think he just has a tiny butt!! He's all tummy and head, with little spider legs and arms flailing around.

Has anyone else's baby smiled yet? For a week or so we've been getting the "almost" smile that could just be gas. The last few days I'm sure it's the real thing, though! I have to say, it makes every hard night worthwhile. It changes his whole face, from clueless newborn, to sweet happy baby!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, Camden has a tiny butt too! Must be a boy thing! He's smiled 3 times for real- once at me and twice at his daddy- it's breathtaking! :cloud9:


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## DragonflyWing

Gunnar has been smiling at the sound of my voice when he's just waking up from 5 weeks on...but just in the last week, he has started smiling at DH sometimes, too. Lily doesn't smile at all yet, only in her sleep once in a while. Otherwise she's quite serious all the time hehe. I have to keep reminding myself that they are developmentally only about 5 weeks old, not 3 months!

I agree that it makes everything worthwhile to see those beautiful little smiles. It absolutely melts my heart.


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## helena

We have had a few possible smiles..am waiting for the big obvious one!

Kiara had her first vaccines today, oh she did cry, poor little love.
She is hungry nearly all the time and still feeding 3 hours continuous, give or take the odd 5 minute power nap, each evening plus every 3 hours (sometimes 4 or 2 though..) so I suggested we try a bottle in the eve and the doc agreed.
She is now 3.95 kilos (8.7 lbs) so gained a kilo in a month (2.2lbs) so all is going well but she is just so hungry!!

I am with wamommy, I have v little desire to dtd yet though I am beginning to wonder if I should make more of an effort soon. 

I might go for a run this week! And maybe Zumba next week!


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## helena

The evening bottle is working great so far. We gave her a quick bath, into pjs, bottle for 6.30 and into bed for 7. She gurgled a bit and went off to sleep in there on her own. I am so hoping that this is the big feed helping and not just her being knocked out by today's vaccines!... My second don was on ottle and he was his easy all the time, he was o content. i worry if i breastfeed that my baby is sad....she is growing but seems to be asking for MORE! She loves boobie and I love feeding her but maybe she is always waiting for desert!? apparently dh was a hungry baby. my first son was purely breast and was such a pain sleep wise fir two years. i wonder if a bottle could have helped him..
Do your babies ever sit and watch the world and be content? Kiara is rarely, unless feeding or within five minutes of feeding. She still sleeps a huge amount.

All kids now asleep in bed and husband off out to the pub. I could tidy up...but i may just have a relaxing bath instead and then take full control of the tv remote for a it!....please baby stay asleep!! :)


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## helena

DragonflyWing said:


> . I have to keep reminding myself that they are developmentally only about 5 weeks old, not 3 months!
> 
> I agree that it makes everything worthwhile to see those beautiful little smiles. It absolutely melts my heart.

Is it the age from due date we should consider when reading about development milestones etc? Kiara was only 3 weeks off due date but I do tend to assume she may be a few weeks behind her actual age development wise? 
Your guys already 3 months? Wowee! Oh my word they are growing up fast already!! :)


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## Kellen

I have a giant baby. She is in 3-6 mo onsies as her torso is too long for the 0-3's to snap anymore. I first noticed it when I tried to put her into a footie pajama and her legs didn't have room to stretch. Thankfully there were 2 huge kid consignment sales this past weekend and I was able to pick up a bunch of "new" clothes for her.

I had my 6 week appointment on Tuesday. I've lost 40lb so far and am only 20lb away from pre-pregnancy weight. Oddly enough I can fit into some of my pre-baby clothes... I just have a muffin top. I've always had a toned torso so it is bothering me. I am planning to start my core exercise regime up again.

DH and I were given the go ahead to DTD. So we did on Tuesday. It wasn't too bad. I wasn't really in the mood, but felt sorry for DH since he hadn't gotten any since Christmas (sorry if TMI). He was a happy camper and is currently being way more helpful and interactive with the baby.

We have also made the decision to pack up our bags and move across the US again. I am very excited to be moving in with my grandma. It will be so nice to have family around and good coffee shops (no offense to lovers of Starbucks, but Dutch Bros coffee is superior in every aspect). I will also be closer to my friends. DH is willing to move, but hasn't gotten super excited about it yet. I don't blame him as he will be driving the moving truck whereas I get to fly. Unfortunately he wants me to layover in Texas for two or three days so that his family can see the baby. I'm not thrilled with this because they all smoke and I'm not really okay with having my baby around 10+ people who smoke for 2 days. I know I'll do it, but I don't have to like it!

I think we have hit a growth spurt today. She lays down and sleeps for 20min and then wakes up ravenously hungry. She'll eat for 10 min on both sides and then want more. I am holding off giving her the bottle as I want to make sure my milk supply keeps up with her demand.


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## SierraJourney

helena, I am so glad to hear that someone else's baby is hungry all of the time still, too! I was in tears today because Camden feeds all day long, and when he's not nursing, he's crying! :( (All of this while I'm supposed to be working from home--so I'm extra stressed because I'm trying to work and take care of him!) :( His current routine is get up, nurse all day until about 3p.m. when he gets fussy WHILE nursing, so I give in and give him a bottle, which satisfies him for maybe 10 minutes, then he nurses some more. So far today, he hasn't really napped (except quick dozes on the breast), and he's suckled all day long! It's soooo exhausting! :( He's gaining weight well, but my goodness! I'm thankful he's a good sleeper, though! (He slept 8 hours STRAIGHT last night). 

Kellen, when is the big move?! That's so exciting!! I'd be upset about the smoky relatives as well. . .that's so hard!! :( Good for you for losing 40 lbs! If I'm that successful when I get weighed next week, I think I will treat myself to a huge dessert and eat every bit of it! I know I've lost 25 lbs already, but am assuming it's more than that now, since that was 3 weeks ago that I was weighed. I, too, am flabby and have a "muffin top" in my pre-pregnancy pants. This weekend I hope to start my core exercises as well. 

That's crazy that your lo is in 3-6 mo already! (Although, I really can't wait for Camden to be in that size because I have a lot of cute clothes in that size! haha) 

Anyone left with stretch marks? I didn't have any when I was pregnant, but I must have had hidden ones or something because as soon as baby was born, I noticed a patch of them right below my belly button. I'm a little sad that they are so obvious and hope they fade a bit before swimsuit season. . . 

Are you all still swaddling baby? We swaddle at night, and the doctor said to keep it up until 3 months. Camden outgrew his regular swaddles, so we had to get some big ones. . .problem is that they are too big and end up leaving a lot of bulky cloth behind his back which makes him rock a bit when he fusses. . .which worries me that he's going to flip himself over, but DH says he's secure.

Okay. . .better get back to that work now. . . ;) Of course, baby is on my lap nursing away! ;)


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## Kellen

I had no stretch marks on my tummy before labor, but afterwards I walked away with a ton!

We don't swaddle. If we do Teagen gets super mad and screams until her face turns purple. If we try to keep her arms contained she will find a way to release them. We have tried with blankets and with swaddle sacks; none of which work.


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## wamommy

No stretch marks here, but I DO have the mother of all muffin tops :dohh: Ah well, it's worth it!

I swaddled the first couple weeks, but after that LO started hating it. He struggles and fights sleep, because he likes to sleep with his arms up. Picture a cactus... that's what he looks like sleeping! I DO put little gloves on, though, because even with trimmed nails he scrapes at his face and wakes himself up in the night. 

Last night he went 2 full hours sleeping! Yes, this was after being up straight until 3am, but still... it's a start.

Helena, LO likes to sit and look around when he's in his car seat, but not flat on his back. I think it's because he can't see much lying down. When we go out to eat I pull back the blanket over his seat so that he can see around the restaurant and he LOVES it. He'll sit there for an hour that way. If I walk away or block his view of me he fusses, though. This could become a problem later on!


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## helena

Luckily I avoided stretch marks.

I just got in from a run! Yikes, I feel sick! Lol. Baby came too, in the stroller. She seemed happy, awake the whole time and looking about :)

Have tired her with another bottle this morning, see if I can make her just a bit more content and happy wi a fuller tummy. So far so good.

Any baby's in their own bedroom? Thinking of moving K this weekend. I tried before it couldn't bring myself to.


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## SierraJourney

Glad I'm not the only one Kellen! Weird how that happens! So jealous of you other two! :)

Helena, Camden has been in his own room since we brought him home from the hospital. It was hard the first few nights for me but now I hardly think about it! I always pray over him, kiss him, and tell him I love him before I leave his room and that seems to settle me down a bit :). But Camden doesn't seem to notice at all! He does excellently!


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## DragonflyWing

helena said:


> Do your babies ever sit and watch the world and be content?

Yes, sometimes, although not as much in the past few days. I think they're having a growth spurt, because they've been super cranky, and if they're not sleeping, they're mostly crying. On good days, though, they are often quietly alert, just looking around. This is when we get smiles from Gunnar and a happy face from Lily (not really smiling, just bright eyed and content-looking).



helena said:


> Is it the age from due date we should consider when reading about development milestones etc? Kiara was only 3 weeks off due date but I do tend to assume she may be a few weeks behind her actual age development wise?
> Your guys already 3 months? Wowee! Oh my word they are growing up fast already!! :)

I know, it's crazy how fast time goes! Yes, adjusted age is calculated from their due date. So even though they're 3 months old, they've only hit most of their 1 month milestones, plus a few 2 month milestones like bearing weight on their legs and better head control (result of more time out of the womb to strengthen their muscles).



SierraJourney said:


> Anyone left with stretch marks? I didn't have any when I was pregnant, but I must have had hidden ones or something because as soon as baby was born, I noticed a patch of them right below my belly button. I'm a little sad that they are so obvious and hope they fade a bit before swimsuit season. . .
> 
> Are you all still swaddling baby? We swaddle at night, and the doctor said to keep it up until 3 months. Camden outgrew his regular swaddles, so we had to get some big ones. . .problem is that they are too big and end up leaving a lot of bulky cloth behind his back which makes him rock a bit when he fusses. . .which worries me that he's going to flip himself over, but DH says he's secure.

I ended up with a little patch of new stretch marks on the side of my tummy, but I truly don't care because I'm prone to stretch marks and have a ton of them already. They fade pretty fast, generally, but I'm so used to having them that I hardly notice them anymore.

As for swaddling, when the babies first came home, they were swaddled almost all the time, and they seemed to love it. As they've gotten older and more alert, they seem to hate it, so we don't do it much now. The only time they get swaddled is after baths when I'm trying to get them toasty warm again, and sometimes while eating so they don't flail as much. They will hardly ever sleep swaddled now, they whine and struggle until I free their arms. Sometimes if they fall asleep swaddled after a bath, it seems like they stay asleep longer than unswaddled...probably because their arms don't wave around and wake them up. LOL most of the time it seems like they have no idea or control over what their arms and legs are doing. They routinely smack themselves or each other in the head because they're flailing about uncontrollably.

The twins got their second Synagis vaccine yesterday (for RSV), and they were SO cranky last night! Lilja actually had a fever, and Gunnar spit up most of his milk for several feedings, and they were just generally inconsolable. Poor DH only got about 2 hours of sleep. I had to get up early to go to work today, so I couldn't help as much as I wanted to (although I laid awake with knots in my stomach for a long time because I can't stand to hear them cry). 

When DH came to bed at one point, Lily started screaming almost immediately. He tried to get me to let her cry herself to sleep, but I just couldn't. When I went out to get her from the bassinet, I found that she was in her carseat with the cover completely closed, ON THE COUCH. WTF DH?! I immediately pulled her out, and she was soaked with sweat, her face was bright red, and she had tears rolling down her cheeks...she was so upset. I felt terrible...what if she had overheated? What if she had rocked the carseat right off the couch onto the floor? What if her airway was restricted from being slumped in the carseat? I don't think he should ever have left her like that and gone to bed. Too many things could have gone wrong. As it was, she was incredibly overtired, and just needed to be held for a minute before she fell right to sleep. Poor little thing.

I told DH that he should not have left her like that, and he disagrees that it was dangerous :nope:


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## Kellen

Dragon, I would have flipped out too if I had found my baby in that position. I understand that your DH was probably exhausted, but that just doesn't seem like a wise position to try to sleep a cranky baby in. Like you said all she needed was a snuggle and then to sleep she went.

Wamommy and Helena, you two are officially off the Christmas card list for having no stretch marks. LOL. I don't actually mind mine. I never wore a two piece to begin with and DH will be the only one looking at me so I don't really care. I just found it interesting that I had none before labor and then a bunch afterwards.

How is tummy time going for everyone? Teagen loves to be placed in different position. We have a small boppy that she can rest her chest on and look around. She will turn her head and look at me if I talk to her. It is awesome. She has also started to "stand" on my lap.

My only complaint is my lower back. And she just showed off her ability to grab and pulled the cover over her face...nice.


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## helena

Well done Teagen!

Kiara is in her own room tonight for the first night. I am really wanting to get an evening routine going, so we have an 8 o'clock ish bedtime set now. And I want her to get used to going to sleep by herself, so I am trying to put her down awake.she cried a bit while I was brushing my two boys' teeth, but I when in and put her pacifier in a couple of times and she seems to be calmly looking about now. Hopefully she will doze off soon.
I bet she ends up in our bed later on though!... But for me it is the bedtime I want to crack, even if she does bed swap in the middle of the night :)

I guess I wouldn't be too pleased either Dragon, but I hadn't heard airways could be restricted in a car seat. I knew babies shouldn't sleep in them for too long but thought this was about the spine....
My little one doesn't move so much yet so wouldn't tumble off the sofa, but maybe yours do..
I have heard people say that a partition or something up so baby can't see can help them go to sleep so maybe he was trying that sort of idea? Not sure I would do it and go off to bed though..
Have you spoken to DH? Perhaps he is just so exhausted?...I would view it as a cry for help. I hope it doesn't lead to too much stress between you...x

For the last 3 nighty Kiara had a bottle of formula before bed and one in the day. First time it went great, then once or twice she has projectile vomited. I think it is just the sheer volume she struggles with - she is a gready guts! Today she threw up all down my arm, I wiped her face and she then gave me the most gorgeous beautiful big smile! The first definite one! I was so happy, even if I was covered in vomit and stank! :) hoping for lots more soon!


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## wamommy

Kellen said:


> How is tummy time going for everyone? Teagen loves to be placed in different position. We have a small boppy that she can rest her chest on and look around. She will turn her head and look at me if I talk to her. It is awesome. She has also started to "stand" on my lap.

We aren't quite ready for tummy time, I think. Max freaks out if he's awake on his tummy and starts to whine like a puppy and thrash around. We did get a mobile the other day, though. My girls were never very interested in theirs, so we didn't think we'd need one. I've caught LO trying so hard to look at colorful moving things in the house, though. We bought a mobile and sure enough, he loves it!



helena said:


> Today she threw up all down my arm, I wiped her face and she then gave me the most gorgeous beautiful big smile! The first definite one! I was so happy, even if I was covered in vomit and stank! :) hoping for lots more soon!

Woohoooo!! Isn't that the BEST? So gorgeous :)



DragonflyWing said:


> WTF DH?!

I'd have to say I would be upset too! I've caught DH "propping" a bottle with blankets so that he wouldn't have to hold Max to feed him :( The weirdest part is that he didn't seem to understand why that would bother me? Men are weird.

The last 4 nights have been sooo hard! We hot into a routine where I would take LO all night () but DH would come get him in the morning so I could go back to sleep for an hour or 2. The last 4 days DH has had early appointments, though, and so NO sleep for me! I'm literally a walking zombie. I'm sitting here finding ways to avoid going up to bed, since I know it will be so hard. My back is killing me from pacing around the house in the middle of the night trying desperately to rock Max to sleep. Ah well... some sleep is better than none I suppose.


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## Kellen

wamommy said:


> I've caught DH "propping" a bottle with blankets so that he wouldn't have to hold Max to feed him :( The weirdest part is that he didn't seem to understand why that would bother me? Men are weird.

Oh good! Mine isn't the only one who seems to think that this is totally acceptable. The other night DH was having a drink of Gentleman Jack with Sprite and Teagen was being fussy so he started to dip his finger in and give her some. After reading him the riot act about never giving children alcohol he told me that his parents used to give him and his siblings 1/4 to 1/2 a beer before bed so they would sleep. The poor man honestly thought it would be a good idea to give her a small amount of whisky to calm her down :dohh:

We are currently sleeping on an air mattress as I sold our bed out from under us in anticipation of our move. Looks like our last day on the East coast will be April 31st. Woot! I am so excited to be heading back to the Pacific Northwest.

Last night she cluster fed from 8 to 11. It was rather exhausting, but she slept until 5:45 this morning, ate for 10 minutes and slept again until 8:30. And for some reason she smells like bacon. We don't have any bacon in the house nor have we eaten any recently. odd.


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## helena

For those who use a bottle, what volume of milk do you give at one time?


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## wamommy

helena said:


> For those who use a bottle, what volume of milk do you give at one time?

If it's breast milk Max will take 4 ounces at a time in a bottle. If it's formula he only eats 1 or 2, but often. I'm not sure why! I think he likes the taste of breast milk better. He looks drunk when he's drinking it :dohh: It's rare for him to eat more than 2 ounces of formula at a time, which is why I think he wakes all night to feed over and over.


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## helena

Bacon! Hahaha! How very odd!!
Kiara was doing that evening cluster feed for a couple of weeks or so, it is tough!


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## DragonflyWing

Tummy time is hit or miss for us. Sometimes the babies will tolerate it for 5-10 minutes, and they're pretty good at lifting their heads to a 45 degree angle. Sometimes they get pissed off the minute we set them down on their bellies and scream right away. If that happens, I can usually get them to calm down by rolling them across the bed (that's where we do tummy time) lol...I say "Rooollllll!!!" and slowly roll them back to belly to back to belly, across the bed, and they are fascinated by it. Their little faces are like "Whoa, dude, what's going on?"

Both babies slept through the night on Saturday! Lily slept for 8 hours, and Gunnar slept for _10 hours_! There have been several times now where they have slept for 6-7 hour stretches, but this was a record. We're encouraging this by getting into a bedtime routine, and letting them eat as much as they want during the day (not like we were restricting them before, but if they still seem even remotely hungry after a bottle, we make them more) so they can get all their calories in before bed time. They slept more during the day yesterday and didn't eat as much, though...so they both woke up twice during the night to eat. In any case, I'm so happy to see that they are naturally regulating their sleeping and eating. If both babies start sleeping through the night, it will be like heaven!

Regarding milk volume- Lilja takes 4 oz of breast milk supplemented with preemie formula. Sometimes she asks for more and takes another 1-2 oz. Sometimes she only finishes 3, it really depends on her mood. Gunnar takes 6-7 oz of pure breast milk and sometimes asks for more and takes another 1-2 oz. He gets his formula separately, and since it's thickened with rice cereal, he usually only eats 4-5 oz of formula at a time. He eats tons and he's consistently gaining about 1.5 oz per day. I bet he's going to catch up from being a preemie pretty fast.


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## helena

wamommy said:


> helena said:
> 
> 
> For those who use a bottle, what volume of milk do you give at one time?
> 
> If it's breast milk Max will take 4 ounces at a time in a bottle. If it's formula he only eats 1 or 2, but often. I'm not sure why! I think he likes the taste of breast milk better. He looks drunk when he's drinking it :dohh: It's rare for him to eat more than 2 ounces of formula at a time, which is why I think he wakes all night to feed over and over.Click to expand...

4 seems about right.
Kiara just had 5 of formula and would take more I am sure....is there a growth spurt at two months???...she has been SO grumpy today.


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## helena

Definately growth spurt alert I say! This morning K fed from me for 20 or 30 minutes. Five minutes later she was still hungry and managed 80ml of formula (3oz?). I am sure she would have more but don't want to make her vomit...


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## SierraJourney

Camden just went through a growthspurt- he was super fussy and I kept having to supplement bottles because he'd nurse, then cry because there wasn't much coming out after hours of nursing. He's always nursed tons in the evening, though, then will get mad that I'm out of milk... it's like he won't even let my milk replenish itself! So I usually have to give him a botle of formula too. I wish I could just breastfeed but he doesn't seem satisfied until that bottle. :( I usually end up pumping while he has formula, and must say that I don't get very much after he nurses.. so it really is like he drains Mme completely and is still hungry. I didn't think that was possible. It makes me feel bad that I don't have enough for him in the evenings :( 

I wonder if I'm not eating enough or something and that's affecting my supply. Anyone else find it hard to find time to eat? Camden wants to be held so much that it's rare I have a free hand to make a meal for myself. Dh makes dinner for me, and usually I can esat cereal one handed in the morning... and I grab a sandwich at lunch, but I usually don't have time to snack or anything, so I don't thibnk I'm getting the extra 500 calories a day we need to support breastfeeding. I must try harder at this.


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## helena

I think we are meant to let them be fussy and nurse without supplementing, that way our bodies get the order for more milk. It should settle in a day or two once our bodies make more milk. It's good if you are pumping.
I haven't pumped, no time. But she is so happy with a sneaky bottle of formula, she even goes to her cot awake and goes to sleep alone. Perfect! I did feel a bit bad about not being exclusively breast milk, but I also wonder if I have enough milk - I only use one breast as it is, and she has been feeding hours in the evening for weeks. I wonder if the stress of dealing with my mums cancer is affecting my supply. I am stressed for sure.
I am eating ok. Only twice have I skipped evening dinner for breakfast cereal. And the mars habit I started when pregnant is living on :)


Dragon - well done your babies for sleeping through!!! 10 hours Gunar! brilliant work little boy! Oh Wowee, your husband must be delighted!!
Even with supplementing with a bottle of formula before bed K only goes 4 hours. I think she needs more milk in the day. I am going to breast feed during the day but offer a bottle after each feed as desert I think, once she has finished feeding from me. Maybe it's what she needs.being 3 weeks early I feel she has some catching up to do too. Her brothers were both a kilo (2.2lbs) heavier at this age.


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## SierraJourney

Glad I'm not the only one- thanks Helena! I try to be diligent with the pumping.. I hate it though! Haha it's sooo time consuming and you have to clean it every time... but I like having some milk stored up... even if a little. :) 

Helena, how is your mum doing? When will you be able to go visit? Thinking of you...

I have my six week checkup today... taking Camden with me. He's so fussy, I always get really anxious taking him to quiet places like doctors offices... I know the midwives will hold him and pass him around during my appointment, but I always feel bad when he wails whenever I'm out. :( I know he's just a baby but I can't help but get stressed. :( poor guy just hates being out and away from mommy :)


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## Kellen

Last night DH ended up taking me to the ER for my back. It hasn't gotten any better since it started hurting last Wednesday. I can't even pick up Teagen without crying out in pain. I've tried the chiropractor and ice, but nothing seemed to work and Tylenol didn't even touch the pain. So we went to the ER and it only took 2 hours. Apparently I pulled a muscle in my lower back and by compensating I strained my hip as well. Now I have stronger Tylenol with codine since it is the only thing that won't impact breastfeeding. On the up side Teagen slept for 7.5hr last night and DH is taking the next three days off to help me recover so I don't have to lift. I am hoping we can get a bunch more of our stuff sold and/or packed. We are giving notice to our landlords today.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen that sounds so painful! I hope you are able to get rest and heal up!!


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## helena

Thanks Sierra, i appreciate you asking. mum is doing ok, but not great - the treatment is so harsh.. She has lost a lot of hair and isn't eating very much at all, and is so fatigued..but it's all a side effect of the treatment that should give us more time we hope. In about 5 weeks the doctors will scan her again and hopefully give us an idea of the future and time..dreading that day.
I hope to go visit at the start of May. Can't wait. Though kind of dreding seeing my mum look so different to the lovely plump woman I waved bye bye to last November :(
Though I will be delighted to introduce the family to Kiara, I just need her to master her big grins before then! :)
Still topping K up after most feeds, she seems happy with that still :)


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## wamommy

I hope you're feeling better Kellen :hugs: What a tough time ot have back pain! Make DH do all the packing :D SO exciting that you're moving back to this part of the country. Yesterday it was 61 degrees here, so the best part of the year in the Northwest is almost here!

Sierra, how did your appointment go? Mine was last week, and all they did was weigh me (yuck), a vaginal exam (no pap), and prescribe some birth control. My Doctor reiterated that I have, "one of the most well-supported bladders (she's) ever seen, even for women who haven't given birth!" Thanks? LOL I took it as a complement, however awkward of one.

Helena, I'm so sorry about your Mom... that is so incredibly hard. I'm glad you get to see her in May. Spending time with Kiara may be the very best thing for her.

We're doing alright here. I think Max is growing. Also, has anyone else's baby's pooping changed? Kind of gross question, but we went from 3-4 poops a day to probably 10 the last few days. They're explosive too. He kind of "jumps" when he poops. He even yelled one time, almost like a dog bark. I don't think it's really painful, just really violent :dohh: Is this normal? We have a 2-month appointment on April 4, but that's still a ways out.


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## SierraJourney

Helena, so sorry about your mom. I really hope the visit with her granddaughter heals her heart and yours. 

Wamommy my appointment went well. She weighed me- 26 pounds lost- hooray!! Did an exam and pap smear, and prescribed birth control. Nothing special but glad to have it over with!

Camden has had about 8 poops a day since his first week! He squirms and cries sometimes when he poops and they are usually really loud! Lol he has bad gas though so that's a big part of it. He cries when he toots :(


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## Kellen

Helena - I am glad you get to see your mom in May. I can only imagine how awful it must be to be apart at this time. Hopefully your little one will have that beautiful smile down pat. Hugs and prayers to you and your family.

Has anyone heard how Jo and Olivia are doing recently?

Oddly enough our poops are decreasing. Coming home we has 8-10 poops/day; now we have decreased to around 3, but they are super violent. Teagen has begun to cry whenever she has or needs to have a bowel movement. This summer when we are more outdoors I am tempted to experiment with elimination communication (EC).

The back is somewhat improved. I stopped taking the Tylenol with Codeine because it was making Teagen sleepy. The literature states it should have no affect on her unless my body metabolizes it too fast and turns it into morphine, which babies can OD on and die from. So I will deal with it. DH stayed home with me to take care of me. Oddly enough I can to run to the store for him because: "My heartburn hurts so bad!" Pfft... Gotta love em!

Might be a bit of a personal question, but what types of birth control are we all opting for? We are going with an IUD that has no hormones so if we decide to have another child I won't have to worry about changing cycles. DH was all for no BC and trying again now, but I am not wanting two under two or two in diapers.


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## wamommy

the Doc wrote me a prescription for the mini-pill (progesterone only) which is supposed to be safe while breastfeeding. I don't really want to take anything hormonal though, since the pill, in any form, has never worked well for me. I always break out and feel super moody... like perma-pms. I'm opting for abstinence at this point :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

I too opted for the mini-pill. Dh and I are going to use that for 6 months, then evaluate when we want to try for another one. 

Kellen, what is the ec about? I've never heard of it before.


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## DragonflyWing

We're sticking with condoms, and when my cycles go back to normal, we'll go back to natural family planning. I can't use hormonal birth control, it makes my blood pressure shoot through the roof. We can't use an IUD, either, as there is the potential for fertilization and subsequent failure to implant, which we don't feel is morally right for us. Doesn't leave us with a lot of options!


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## Kellen

EC is basically learning how to read your baby's sings for when they need to "eliminate" waste. So instead of using diapers you hold the baby over the sink or toliet when they need to go. Since I can anticipate this now I would like to try it especially since she'll be in sundresses a lot. https://www.diaperfreebaby.org/


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## helena

No, I came on to ask about Jo too...
Jo, how's you?..xx


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## SierraJourney

Oh wow Kellen- that's really interesting! If you try it, you'll have to let us know how it goes!

I know Jo writes a lot of updates on her blog- I tend to bop over there whenever she is silent for a while to see what's going on. :)


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## Jo_Bean

Hi ladies :wave:

I've been meaning to pop in for weeks it seems like but then something, or rather someone :haha: keeps me very busy!

I scan read through to keep up with you and your little ones though x

I can't remember the last time I updated, so short version; Olivia no longer has a feeding tube and she's doing all feeds through her bottle. Physio on her feet is going well and she's lifting her head up and smiling - things we thought she would be very delayed on because of her muscles. We are still waiting for the results of more genetic tests but we are enjoying every minute of her exactly how she is. She has had bad reflux because of her floppiness, her muscles are floppy inside too, but we are managing that with gaviscon. 

AFM - not much to report, I've lost 40lbs since before O was born, I feel good and am enjoying laying on my stomach and bending over etc. recovery from the c section was nowhere near as bad as I thought. Also I had my retest for diabetes and that's gone, although I am at risk of getting it in the future, so need to remain healthy. 

I think thats it really! All in all, we are doing great!

Sorry I've not been around much, O has so many appointments to go to, but they are all slowing down to being monthly ones now - thank goodness!!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm glad everything's going so well, Jo! :)

I think we need new photos of all the V-day babies! Let's see how big all our LOs are getting!


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## Kellen

I am planning to take pictures this weekend in her Easter outfit. DH has come up with a creative way to present Teagen with her first Easter basket. We will alsp be hunting eggs at church.

Jo, I am glad to hear that you are recovering and that Miss Olivia is doing so well. :)


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## wamommy

So glad you are doing well, Jo! Olivia is a little fighter, isn't she? Go Olivia, go! :) Happy to see an update.

I'd love to see pics as well! We finally caught a smile on camera! :D I'll post this weekend.

We're driving 1.5 hours to my brother's house on Easter... I'm a bit concerned about the drive! It should be fun, though. He just got engaged :)

What are everyone's plans?


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## SierraJourney

Easter is busy for us- a 45 minute drive to my mum's house today and a 2 1/2 hour drive to dh"'s mom's house tomorrow! Thankfully, Camden does great in the car and usually sleeps the entire time! :flower: this is also true of thr stroller- which he loves! The boy has to be moving! :). I'm happy to report that he's starting to get a bit happier and less fussy now that he's getting older! It's delightful and I love seeing his little personality start to emerge!!


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## helena

Hi all!!

Jo - love your profile pic - she looks beautiful and so grown up! :) glad all is going well. 

Kiara and I missed an Easter party today as I have a bug :( flu like with dodgy tummy. It's tough being unwell and still forcing yourself out of bed to breastfeed at night I must say!.. It's been a couple of days now so hopefully I will get better soon.
Otherwise we have no Easter plans here. 

Going back to an earlier question K seems to like tummy time. And today was the first time she seemed really content wiggli around under the baby gym :)
She is regularly putting herself to sleep now, but not every time, and sleeps in her own room. Very proud!

Have a wonderful Easter everyone xxx


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## SierraJourney

Aww! So sorry that youre sick! I hope it goes away soon!! 

Wow Helena! K puts herself to sleep? How do you do it? I feed Camden before bed and he always falls asleep nursing! I hate to stop his nursing early to put him to sleep because he nurses right up until he falls asleep. I also think if I nursed then diapered him or something else arousing that he would sit and cry if I put him in his crib. But I don't want him to get into the habit of nursing to sleep :shrug:


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## SierraJourney

Argh guys I have to vent- saw mil today for Easter. I like the woman but she is controlling and doesn't listen when it comes to my baby. It seriously makes me so mad! Like today, she's holding Camden and I tell her that I need to change him because he hadn't been changed in a while. She then feels his diaper through his pants and tells me that it's not poopy. I tell her that he probably peed, and she again feels the diaper and said "he's not that wet" and whisked him away. Excuse me?! It's my son and if he's even a little wet, want to take care of it! But I bit my tongue because I thought Dh might get upset if I said something. Then, Camden is hungry so I go to get him to nurse and she asked to give him a bottle. No it's my son- and you have to give him back to me so I can breastfeed him! Then after I nurse, he's sleeping in my arms and she takes him out to hold him! Then when I go to change his diaper, she tries to take over and TELLS me that she is going to change him. And when she changes him, she hardly wipes him and he's still dirty! Then when we get ready to leave, we have to ask her over and over again to give him back to us so I could put him in the carseat. Then she takes out his pacifier and kisses his lips!!! I told Dh that I'm uncomfortable with that and he didn't care! Seriously, I only want Dh and I to kiss his lips and we don't need her germs!! Then she says she'll be up in a few weeks to babysit for a few days- excuse me but I'll ask if I need you- don't tell me!! Arghh I'm so frustrated because Dh doesn't understand and won't let me say anything!!! :(


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## helena

I know Sierra, I feel lucky she will go to sleep alone sometimes! If she is full enough and relaxed enough I pop her in end cot and she will make stretchy noises and look about contentedly until she dozes off. A couple of times it has taken her 40 minutes, but she doesn't cry. Actually, sometimes she does seem to cry a little as she actually drops off. Then I maybe need to go in and reput in her dummy or give her a little "shhhhh shhhh"ing. I think the actual feeling of falling asleep may be a bit scarey for her. I mean, if you don't know what is happening it is maybe a bit weird?
She won't do it every time yet. She won't if she is too tired or if she has had a day where she sad been held lots or napped with me. I really have noticed a difference since I started putting her down to nap in end own room and own cot.
The other day when I was unwell I slept with her in the afternoon in my bed and then again later on the sofa. That night she wasnt happy to go down in her own bed alone at all. And a big bottle of milk really helps. She is so much more chilled after a mega feed.
I hadn't really wanted to start the whole sleep training thing until she was 3 or 4 months old but I think starting early and gently is good for us. My first was a bad sleeper for the first two years, I think deep down I am scared of that happening again!.....

Oh I understand the MiL issues. Once you provide a grandchild it is a bit like you have provided someone to belongs to everyone in the family in some way...people always want to lay some sort of claim or make sme sort f sore ting suggestion. Personally I can't stand my inlaws making any suggestions. Like this week DH told them how K is having some formula to top her up and I could hear MIL saying "oh see, it's what she needs".. That really pose me off. Like my milk s faulty. But a the same time I agree it s what she needs...well, really maybe it s what I need, it makes her easier as a baby. Bt maybe she doesn't _need_ it as such...but she is happier with it..
Anyway, anything that MIL could suggest would annoy me. And I am not sure why, when I think about it rationally.
The lip kisses would maybe annoy me. My kids are always given back to me with Lipstick marks on their faces. That bothers me.
I am just making sure to remember how stressed out these little things make me so I can be aware when I am a grandma and MIL... Because it really is stressful. I don't know if a lot is down to our hormones...but even then, its still real.
And as for the unwanted visits....expect them for the next 20 years....
We can't really stop them, one day they may be really sick and we would feel so bad if we kept our husbands from their families or came between them,.....but it is so hard, why the mums can't just be aware of how stifling they can be I don't know. With my first my inlaws were here for 10 days after birth and then came back again at 6 weeks...I was ready to burst with stress and annoyance at feeling suffocated!...so far they haven't asked t come back again to see ak yet...I think I was so obviously stress with them here after the birth of Kiara that they don't dare ask!lol.they have asked a couple of times when we will go there. I will go back to see my family next month and my inlaws are only half an hour away from my fmily, but I won't go see them....I just want to give my fmily as much time with K as possible. I will only be there two days. The inlaws have had their time I feel..
It's so hard keeping everyone happy isn't it.

Xxxx


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## DragonflyWing

Oh, Sierra, I would have been SO annoyed! We don't see DH's mother often, and she hasn't seen the babies at all...but my mom visited for a week last month, and it seemed like she was careful not to give unwanted advice (to me, at least. She drove DH completely nuts when I was out of earshot :haha:) or do things I asked her not to. If she didn't live 1000 miles away, I can see her being the "know it all" type of grandma. 

As it is, only a few people have visited, but we have made them wear surgical masks and gloves if they want to hold the babies (the neonatologist in the NICU suggested that), and they only stayed for a short while. We finally got the go-ahead from the doctor today to start taking the babies out to meet family and friends, although she cautioned us against crowded places like Walmart. She said they absolutely can't be around anyone who is sick until they are at least 6 months old. I'm just glad they can start meeting their family!

Here are some pictures from this past weekend: Gunnar looking like a big boy in his Easter outfit, and Lilja holding her head up like a big girl :D
 



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## helena

Beautiful pictures dragon!
I guess the rules for preemie babies are so different when it comes to going out? K has been visiting out boys' school since 9 days old! lol. she is on her second cold already. But she is fine :)

I meant to add that in K's room she also has a nightlight which I have on all night that makes the sound of waves crashing on the beach :) I don't think she is used to silence. We also have a second little light from ikea which changes color and we have that on when she is less easy to settle too. Anything to try and distract her fom crying :)

She fed just once again last night. Last feed at 10pm, night feed at 3 and day started at 6.50. I am happy with that :)


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## SierraJourney

Glad to hear the mil.stuff is normal! But I still hate it! Part of the problem too is that she texts every day asking for a picture of him! I send pictures almost every day anyways but if I.don't, she'll text : "ready for my daily pic!" Ooooo it bothers me so much! It just feels so controlling to me! I feel a little evil, but I don't send her one sometimes when she does that! Lol and an hour after we left her house on Sunday, she texts asking how he's doing in the car. I didn't text back because I was so furious- so then yesterday she called and left me a voicemail asking about the car ride. I refused to answer or call back. She doesn't need to know every detail of our life just because she has a grandson now! Grrr! Part of the problem I think is because she forced some decisions that were against my beliefs into our wedding a couple years ago- so badly that I almost left Dh because of it. She's super controlling and I am very wary of anyone who tries to control me.... sigh... but she's really cool when it's not a wedding or a grandchild! Lol

Helena, Camden doesn't sleep in quiet either- has to have a fan going at night and music during the day! That's cool about the color lamp- I've tried to get Cam to like different color changing toys and whatnot, but he cries at anything like that! 

Dragon- the twins are so precious! And getting so big! I can't believe Lilja is holding her head up so well! That's terrific!

After two weeks of Camden not napping during the day (he was awake for 7 hours straight yesterday) and crying when hes awake mostly, i finally decided I needed some help. Called the doctor and they think he is lactose intolerant and is in pain and uncomfortable- which causes him not to sleep (he arches his back when he cries and pulls his legs to his chest and cries until he's purple :( so, they're having me stop eating dairy to see if that helps. If he doesn't get better in a few days, they'll see him for reflux or see if there is something else wrong. I feel so badly for him, and really hope we find the answers soon- it's so exhausting! :(


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## Kim2012

Hello everyone, 

Havent been in a while, so much to catch up with but I have to make it quick baby girl is keeping me busy.She had a bug at 6weeks and was covered in a rash all over her body that made her skin as rough as sandpaper.And then she had swollen eyes!!!Poor thing has even learnt to scratch!!!

The GP says the rash and and swollen eyes are an infection.She has been on antibiotics and was on a poo strike for 4 days.The she finally had bowel movement today....I have never been so happy at seeing poo!!!She is geeting better.and now I am dreading the immunisations on the 4th!!!


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## helena

Oh Km, swollen eyes!? Oh how worrying and strange! Glad she is on the mend.

K has started to poo less frequently but oh my! - When she does go it escapes several sides of the diaper. It's incredible!..

Little hints at personality emerging, I lay her down earlier while I made lunch and she did the most dramatic sob sob sob type cry, like heart broken. She then just stopped, maybe when i carried on making my sandwich, and as if by magic the heart was fixed, and she was happily just looking abut. Little drama queen!?...:)


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## helena

Oh yes the constant contact can do me in too. Sometimes MiL has called at the weekend before we have even got dressed. And they are a hour behind us and don't have little boys waking them at6....


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Helena! Glad it's not just me! Haha! But sorry you have to deal with it too!

Kim, that sounds horrible! I'm sorry lo has been so sick! :( hope she gets better quickly!


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## helena

Sorry about the lactose thing Sierra, hopefully it is just a windy phase that will pass, it's tough for you too! X


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## helena

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_682606F5.jpg
Kiara today


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## wamommy

Hello, all :D

Dragon, the twins are beautiful! I can't believe how big they are. It seems like yesterday that they were born! 

Sierra, I can't imagine how much the MIL situation would bother me. I also hate feeling controlled, and would be very resistant to it! I sometimes wish my family was MORE involved, lol... but I'm sure there's a happy medium. The kissing on the lips thing would really bug me, since we're pretty germaphobic. Luckily, our friends all know that, and ask to wash their hands or use sanitizer first thing when they come over!

Kim, I hope Brianna is feeling better! How scary :( Poor thing.

Helena, can you come to my house and teach Max to sleep?? :haha: Nights are still a challenge here. We use a white noise machine, but he just wakes over and over and then stays up an hour at each wake. The bad thing is, he sleeps all day! I wish I could flip it around. I'm thinking about keeping him awake this evening, even if he protests. Mama needs some sleep!!

Helena, I'm seeing personality emerge too! It's so fun. Max rarely cries, and gives a ton of puppy-like whimpers beforehand to try to get what he needs. He almost fights crying. That makes it SO sad when he cries out. It's almost a desperate wail. In the night I try to get to him before he reaches a full-on cry because I just can't take it! Also sometimes I'll be holding him, doing something else and I'll look down and he's staring at me cooing and smiling away. He's such a sweet boy!

Does anyone know how to post a picture with that "spoiler" button? DH doesn't want me to post a pic, but I really want to!!


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## wamommy

Kiara is SO cute, Helena!! LOVE these new pics!


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## wamommy

Here's Max! :cloud9:

https://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5836/firstsmilemediummobile.jpg

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## SierraJourney

Awww gorgeous Helena! 

Hi wamommy! Sorry to hear Max still is having problems sleeping at night- I think keeping him awake in the evening is a good idea- let us know how it goes! Not sure how to do the spoiler thing.... sorry! I will try to post a picture sometime soon.. when I'm not typing away on my phone ;)


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## SierraJourney

Aww what a handsome little man wamommy!


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## helena

Oh he is so smiley!!! Adorable, he really is a very good looking baby ! Lovely colouring. and hair! Looks older than Kiara . She needs hair to help her look less frog like! Lol xx


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## wamommy

Thanks, ladies! <3 He looks just like his Daddy. My girls both have blonde hair and one has hazel, the other blue eyes! Needless to say, DH was very happy to see a lot of himself in Max.

Helena, both of my girls were practically bald until about 1 year! I think it's adorable :) Also, strangers thought they were SO advanced because they looked younger than they were. "Wow!" they'd say. "She's saying 'Mama' already at her age? So advanced!" Haha. I never corrected them.


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## Jo_Bean

Max is adorable! He could be a model! 

All of your babies are gorgeous ladies. Growing up so quick!

I think people see Olivia as older than she is because of all of her hair. She never looked like a newborn really. Not even when she came out! Sometimes I think 8 weeks sounds so old, but so young at the same time. All I know is, time is going by very quickly! Apart from when she's crying :haha: then it stands still!

Very conscious that I'm not around much but I am reading what's been happening, promise! 

I have some issues with MIL too. She calls Olivia "my little girl" as in hers :growlmad: she's MINE! She also rushes to pick her up when she cries, even if I want to wait for 2 seconds because sometimes she does a little pretend cry as she's falling asleep. Also, she'll tell me that Olivia has finished her bottle when I'm feeding her! I just want to reply with "you know I'm sat here with the bottle in my hand right!?" :trouble: MILs!


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## helena

Ooh MILs can be so annoying! Can't they remember being a new mum? Lets make a pact to remember how we feel and not inflict the same one day!...I had my MIL rush to pick the baby up when crying once, drives me mad, instant blood boil. And she stood holding a screaming K for a couple of minutes, rocking her, bouncing her...just give her to mummy!! I is almost like she wanted to prove she still had "it". Well I a, sorry but I am the special one my baby needs when she is sad. So ner......ooh, childish, me? Maybe, but it can all drive me insane.


4.30am feed time here. Yaaawn..zzzz


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## Jo_Bean

Exactly. And my MIL has the same song that she sings to O. Every time. I even have it pop up in my dreams now! Arrrrrrrggghhh!

I wonder if we'll be worse though :shock: 

My sister and I were talking about our children's weddings the other day and how we will probably end up interfering more than our parents and parents in laws, even though our intention is to obviously be the coolest parents ever :haha: 

We shall see I guess! However, we have a long wait as Olivia is not allowed to gt married until she is 42 :rofl:


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## helena

Oh yes MIL here has a song too. In the most squeaky voice....unfortunately my sons have grown up liking it....aaaaaaargh!....


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## Midnight_Fairy

Ughh at mil. That would drive me barmy!! My mil still has young kids at home so shes not overly intrusive xx


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## SierraJourney

:haha: thanks ladies- glad I'm not the only one boiling because of mil.... I still haven't returned her call or texts because I'm trying to "prove " I'm in control and need my space :rofl: childish, yes, but makes me feel better!


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## Kellen

Why does it seem like all MIL have the same control issues? Mine does the "My baby girl" thing and it really annoys me. She won't say it if she knows I'm listening, but she says it to DH all the time. And no, she is you GRANDDAUGHTER she is MY baby. Needless to say I am not really looking forward to our visit in May. Those will be a long four days. Has anyone done a flight with an infant? Any tips or advice. I will be flying while DH drives the moving truck.

Last night was a roaring success in terms of sleeping. Teagen went down at 11 after a bottle and a quick comfort nurse. She wasn't completely asleep when I laid her down, but she managed to find her fist and soothed herself to sleep. She did not wake up until 7 this morning when DH was leaving for work. Even then she had her diaper changed and a 5 minute nurse before she was out again until 9:30. Now she just gave me a wonderfully smelly diaper.

Here is a picture of us yesterday. We are squinting into the sun. She is in her Easter outfit.
 



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## Midnight_Fairy

Yey well done teagen! We had the name teigan in our top 5 :)


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy- Max is gorgeous! What a handsome boy :)

helena- Kiara is adorable! Look at that expressive little face!

Sunday night, the twins both slept through the night! Yay! Of course, the last two nights they have been up a million times :dohh:


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Max is a super handsome little fellow. He is going to grow up to be a heartbreaker.

Helena - I am glad I'm not the only one who thinks her little one sometimes looks like a frog.

Dragon - Your little ones are looking so grown up!


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## wamommy

LOL about the MIL songs :dohh:

Yay Teagan and the Dragon Twins for sleeping through the night!! 

Kellen, what a great pic! Teagan is so cute, and so chubby! I LOVE baby chub. I could just eat them up :)


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## helena

Oh Taegan is so big and lovely! You look really well too Kellen. Must be all that sleep..you lucky thing! :) Kiara hasn't gone beyond 5 hours of sleep but that is good enough for me for now, I know I must count my blessings! (I often think of you and adorable monkey Max Wamommy!...xx)

What time do you little ones go to bed? I had wanted K to go down at 7 with her brothers, but she seems to have decided that evenings are the best time to be active and wriggly and she tends to go to bed around 10 or 11, which actually works good because I can then go to end right after her last feed nd maximize my chances of a good rn of sleep. But I do look forward to her sleeping during the evening at se point...eating one handed is getting to be far too routine now! :)


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## Kellen

10 or 11 seems to be Teagen's preferred time sleep too. I'm actually looking forward to moving across the country because then she will be wanting to go to sleep at 8 pm.

Today she has been super fussy and is only happy if she is swinging or being walked around the house. Right now I have foisted her off on her daddy and am thinking about escaping to a shower. But I can't move right now because the cat has decided to take advantage of me sitting without a baby.

And thank you, Helena, for the complement. I too feel for everyone who has a little one that doesn't like sleep. I feel so blessed and slightly confused that she is so good. I had put myself in the mindset that I would never sleep again.


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## SierraJourney

Camden usually goes to sleep around 9 or 10. We try to make it earlier but it alwaya seems to fall between 9 & 10. Hopefully soon it will be earlier though.. but it's hard because Dh gets home at 530 and wouldn't get much time to spend with Cam if he goes to bed earlier.. so right now these times work for us. How long does your guys bedtime routine take? With feeding and everything, ours usually take an hour.


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## helena

We dont have a routine as such, just pjs and milk.. She doesn't bath every day. It was the same lack of routine for my second son too and he was the best sleeper ever, so I am happy to go this way again. With having 3 to get to bed things have to be short and or flexible. Eventually she will join her brothers routine - milk and a short tv programme in pjs followed by story in bedroom, clean teeth, cuddles with both mum and dad and bed. Maybe 40 minutes total, but including a 15 minute of childrens tv. So really only half an hour or less of hands on parenting routine. Both boys together, same story etc.
The only definite part of K's routine is her wake up time. We have to get up when the big brothers wake.. 6.30-7.
My second son had a regular bed time. He always went at 7.30 with his brother. I think that as long as there is one constant everything else will somehow fall into place.

My first baby had a full bath, milk, story, bed routine.Was a major job each evening. But it didnt help him to sleep...awkward little devil ;) 
Bedtime routine now is much shorter and I think it's just as effective. As soon as pjs are on and we are reading that story (5 or 10 mins long, a short picture book) they know bedtime is inevitable.
X

An not sure how or when to move K's bedtime earlier, didn't have this before... Maybe at 4 months and I will feel more safe to be a bit tougher on insisting on an earlier bedtime and letting her cry a bit.
It's all so good right now, her happy to drift off alone but at 10pm that I don't want to rock the boat yet!...


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## SierraJourney

Don't blame you Helena- it sounds perfect that she goes to sleep on her own!

The lactose free diet is helping Camden a bit but his tummy still hurts him a lot. I'm going to see the doctor for it next week. The lactose free diet is soooo hard for me though! Im a vegetarian already, so not being able to eat milk and cheese severely limits my food choices! :( I'm hoping maybe next week we'll find out it's not lactose and I can get back to eating again! :haha: but it's worth it if it helps Camden to nap and stop fussing so much!


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## Kellen

I am on a lactose and gluten-free diet due to my own allergies. So, I feel for you Sierra. I use almond or lactaid milk to supplement my diet. And goat cheese does not seem to affect me as badly as processed cow's cheese.

Our bedtime starts around 9. We get Teagen into her jammies and off to the bedroom we go. She takes about 4oz of breast milk from a bottle and them nurses. This generally takes until 10:30 when she will nod off. We will then put her in her bed. Sometimes she will fuss and then I will cuddle her and let her sleep with me until DH comes to bed. But the last two nights she has found her fist and soothed herself to sleep.

We don't do baths everyday either. At the moment we tend to do Thursday and Saturday nights unless we have a diaper accident and it necessitates a bath.


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## DragonflyWing

Do you all put your LOs in pajamas at night? I just leave them in whatever they wore during the day...it's usually a one piece sleeper, anyway. Sometimes it's a two piece outfit, but pretty much all baby clothes are comfy to sleep in, right? Sometimes they even wear the same clothes for two days in a row...unless they spit up/have a diaper blow out, we just change their onesie and keep the outfit. Is that bad?

Do any of you let your babies sleep on their tummy? I find that the twins fall asleep SO much faster and stay asleep longer if they're on their front. We never let them sleep on their tummies when we're sleeping, but if we're awake and checking them frequently, we do. I know this is discouraged because babies who sleep on their backs have a lower SIDS rate, but since they hit their due date (about 2 months old), they WILL NOT fall asleep if we put them down awake on their backs. If we put them down asleep, it's hit or miss, but they usually wake up within a few minutes. If we put them down awake on their tummies with their pacifiers in, they usually drift off to sleep on their own with no trouble. At night when we're going to bed, we turn them over on their backs and they usually stay asleep then. Anyone else?


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## wamommy

Yes, Dragon, I do both of those things!!

I let Max wear his clothes until he soils them, which is sometimes 2 days and sometimes 2 minutes!! :dohh: He usually wears a sleeper, unless we're feeling fancy... then he'll wear a onesie and pants :haha: I figure he sleeps all day in it, isn't it comfy enough for night?

I also put Max on his tummy to nap sometimes, as long as I'm right next to the pack and play. I obsessively check on him, but haven't had a problem yet. At night I put him on his tummy for the first 15 minutes or so, until he's nice and deep asleep, then flip him to his back before I go to sleep. Each time he wakes in the night I put him straight on his back, though, since there's no way I'm waiting up an extra 15 minutes to flip him! :haha:

I should take notes on all of your bedtime routines. THat is something I've always felt a bit of a failure at with my kids. Even the girls don't have a strict or set bedtime, and it's often chaos here in the evenings as they get tired and crazy. I've tried routines before, and they are SO resistant to it that I have a bit of a phobia. It's easier (in the short run) to just let them stay up until they fall asleep on their own than to deal with the 50-times-out-of-bed nightmare. In the long run I'm setting them up for sleep issues, though, so I need to suck it up at some point. I'm just so incredibly tired all of the time from Max not sleeping that I avoid most conflict, even the beneficial kind.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! Glad someone understands! :). At least it will make me a healthier person! 

I usually put Camden in a sleep gown each night. He spts up so much that he usually needs a change by then anyways. The bedtime routine works wonders for us! We always do diaper change, pjs, a few ounces of breast milk from a bottle while Dh either reads to him or sings and plays guitar, then the fan comes on and it's quiet time and I nurse him until he's asleep. Sometimes he wakes up when I put him in his crib but he always goes to sleep within a few minutes.


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## SierraJourney

Oh and Camden hates being on his tummy so I would never attempt to try to let him sleep on his tummy! We would have no sleeping and instant screaming :rofl:


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## helena

I change Kiara into clean pjs each night but if she is still clean and dry in the morning she stays in that outfit until the evening. That makes the mad morning school rush much easier.
By evening she usually has some sick on her!...

Bt she has started a poo explosion each morning at 10ish for the last 3 days so her change of clothes has upped pace and my washing pile is expanding.


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## helena

Oh, and my paediatrician said she had her three kids sleeping on their tummies...

I know there is a risk, but there is a lot to be said for a well rested baby. They grow better, are healthier..
When I was born it was all sleeping on our tummies. Kiara would like to sleep on her tummy. I haven't let her yet, but I would be tempted if she really wouldn't sleep on her back. At the moment she sleeps in her cot on a bean bag. That sort of takes away the openness of being on her back, if you get what i mean. it kind of cradles her like arms. I guess this needs to go once she moves more.


In a month or so the babies could be rolling over into whatever position they want anyway..


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## DragonflyWing

That's true...pretty soon they'll be choosing their own sleep positions. We had the twins in two Boppy loungers to sleep for a long time, but when they started moving more, it wasn't safe anymore. I figured that out when I came in to find Lily laying between the two pillows in the crib, she had rolled right out of her Boppy! They're just too wiggly now to have any pillows or anything around them while they sleep. 

We still put a blanket on them to sleep, but only up to their waist so it can't get up over their faces. We try to put them in wearable blankets instead, but a lot of the time they fall asleep and I'm not willing to wake them up to put it on. It will be better in the summer when they won't really need a blanket.


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## Kellen

Typically Teagen stays in whatever clean outfit she was in for the day for bedtime unless we do a bath; then I put her in clean jammies. When she is sleepy tummy time is out, she actually prefers her side, but we always sleep her on her back if she is in her own bed. If I co-sleep with her for naps I will turn her on her side. 

The past two days she had been super fussy in the evenings. Today we went to the chiropractor and her axis (the bone the skull sits on) was off kilter. So the doctor adjusted her and I am hoping she will be less fussy tonight. I also think she is going through a bit of a growth spurt. I feel bad for DH because she screams for me whenever he tries to comfort her.


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## helena

Kiara went down to bed at 8.30. I am amazed. I managed to cook dinner, am astounded! Hoping this wont mean the day will start at 5am....

Wow, hope the chiropractor has made a difference Kellen, let us know how it goes.

Oh I am worried about Kiara and her blankets now, she likes it wrapped around her so it is almost like a swaddle but looser...and high at the back of her head. very cosy but not entirely safe. May swap to a sleeping bag as of tomorrow!..


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## SierraJourney

I still swaddle Camden. He won't sleep long without a swaddle. I'll probably switch to a sleep sack in the next month. . .

I'm still struggling with naps. The lactose-free is helping him a bit (we can at least get one nap a day now), but other than that, he won't nap unless in my arms! Anyone else have to hold their baby to nap? Any tips on how to get him to nap on his own? He can be dead asleep and as soon as I put him down, he's screaming like crazy. Sometimes I can soothe him with a pacifier, and he *might* drift off to sleep. . but usually I'm running back and forth to his swing/pack in play (wherever he is napping) to put the pacifier in or pick him up because he's inconsolable. :(


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## DragonflyWing

The only thing that works for us is putting them on their tummies. It happens a LOT with Lily especially that she is so tired, but she's just fighting sleep. Bouncy seat, swing, on her back in the crib...nothing works. Most of the time even holding her and rocking her doesn't work when she's overtired. So I flip her over on her belly, give her a pacifier, help her move her hand up to hold the pacifier in, and within minutes she's out like a light.

Gunnar usually naps beautifully and goes to sleep without protest. He only cries when he's in pain or hungry. He's such a good baby.


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## Kim2012

So much to catch up on.Glad to hear babies are doing well.Kiara is gorgeous and Max is soooo handsome!!!
We have reduced poo as well but when it comes its an explosion!!! and its all over her clothes and the car seat ha ha.
Brianna is also showing some personality traits.She gave the ladies in church angry eyebrows!!She now does what DH calls 'punctuated crying' with loads of ooohs and aaahs when she is just looking for attention

We dont do Pjs on a daily basis. just the days when she has been in dresses and some dressing which has buttons and would not allow for easy access on diaper change when i am half asleep in the night then I need to change her at bedtime 

I admire you all with bed time schedules ...we dont have any!! her time table is very random one day she can sleep at 11pm and the next one she will be awake till 2 am!!

about tummy sleeping i do it.she can turn her head if she is in an uncomfortable position.Its the only position that i can get her to sleep without waking up every 10 min.I am trying to make her sleep on her sides .see how it goes

anyone else have had the first jab.Brianna had hers and the poor soul screamed .....I couldnt help shed a tear seeing her in so much pain.She was fussy after abt 3 hrs gave her paracetamol and she was fine.
we did miss our 'Brianna best moment' which is when I 'stand' her on my lap and she stand upright with her head stable for a few seconds or so before she wiggles...

she still cant stand but is back to her normal self dishing out the smiles!!!


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## wamommy

Kim, so glad Brianna is doing well! She sounds like a character, with the "angry brows" :rofl: I can picture it!

Has anyone else encountered cradle cap? Max had what looked like dandruff, so I peeked at his scalp. It's scaly in spots, and has white stuff that comes off in flakes if you scratch at it (softly, obviously :haha:) Is there a magic cure? I tried baby oil and rubbing softly with a wash cloth, but it's still there! I'm so self-conscious about it. With Max's dark hair it's really obvious, and I'm afraid people will think I don't wash him properly!

Tomorrow morning is our 2-month checkup. I am totally ashamed to admit I completely FORGOT our appointment last week and had to call and reschedule. I felt like such a bad mom, lol. Ah well, our 2-month checkup became a 9-week appointment... no biggie.

My oldest DD turned 5 on Friday! We've been celebrating and I've been quietly a bit sad! I remember her birth and baby days like it was yesterday. She's so beautiful, smart, funny and outgoing. I'm so very proud of her. I'm just afraid of her growing up too fast! It makes me want to soak up every moment of little Max's sleepless nights, because before I know it he'll be throwing a bowling ball down the alley with his group of friends on his 5th birthday, and I'll be sitting...watching... wondering where the years went. Sigh... Sorry! Sappy moment over. :blush:


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy, no magic cure but you can get cream from the docs or the best thing is olive oil (not extra virgin, just bog standard olive oil) it has helped with Olivia's dry skin and cradle cap. It's very good. Just dab it on with cotton wool, or your finger. 

I've been told not to use the baby products on her yet as they are a bit harsh. She had a bit of dry skin on her forehead and eyebrows and DH wiped it with a baby wipe. It went awful and sore and dry and I tried baby oil and it made it worse. So I asked a few people on here and they advised olive oil. It cleared her face up after a week and she's now got cradle cap which I am using it on.


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## SierraJourney

Camden has had a few flakes but nothing really bad- I.can usually just pick it out of his hair, then we're good. I see where it's scaly in spots, but I just try not to touch it. My doctor said only bathe him once a week (but wash his face and hands a bit more often and obviously clean his bum well at every change. ) my younger sister swears by olive oil- massage it into their scalp, then shampoo it out really well. Apparently it's supposed to take care of it completely. I haven't tried it yet but it's worth a try!


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## Jo_Bean

I was also told to put a drop of olive oil in the water when we bath her because bathing can dry their skin out. Prob why you were told to only bath once a week Sierra. We don't bath O too much. Babies don't really get dirty. But I do wash her hair more than I bath her because it does get greasy where there is so much of it and everyone strokes her head a lot!


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## SierraJourney

I wash Camden's hair more often for the same reason- it gets greasy because everyone strokes it-- me included! Olive oil in the bath sounds like a good idea.I have been putting lotion on him after his baths but for some reason he hates lotion and cries and cries.. maybe the olive oil would be a better moisturizer him.


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## Kellen

Teagen had terrible cradle cap. We use coconut oil and it has helped immensely. We started using it when we came home from the NICU because the tape from the IV had chapped her poor little hands. Now we use it for baby massages. I like it because it smells good and if she sticks her hands in her mouth it will a) taste good and b) be non-harmful.

We have discovered the secret to sleeping at bedtime... nursing while laying down. Basically we lay facing each other, she nurses, falls asleep, naturally unlatches and stays asleep. Last night she fell asleep at 10:30 (30 earlier than normal) and didn't stir until 4:30. We moved her from the bed to her bed at midnight after we had grown up time and packed a few boxes. At 4:30 I has DH grab her before she fully awoke. She ate for 15 minutes and never woke up and slept until 7:30. We nursed laying down and DH wanted to snuggle her until she woke up at 9:30.

What is everyone's favorite piece of baby equipment? Ours by far is the swing.


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## DragonflyWing

Gunnar has some cradle cap, plus some scaly patches on his forehead...I guess baby eczema? We exfoliate with a soft washcloth in the bath once a week, then use Aquaphor healing ointment on it every day. It seems to help a lot on his forehead, but not much on his scalp. I think we will try coconut oil!

I'm jealous of your LOs beautiful hair, Jo! I have two little baldy beans. They have such fine light hair that you can hardly see it. It runs in my family...my little sister (whom Lilja is the spitting image of) was essentially bald until she was two.

Gunnar laughed for the first time this weekend! It was amazing.


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## wamommy

Thank you all for the advice! I will try olive oil (since I have it handy already) and if it doesn't do the trick I'll pick up some coconut oil. They both sound like better options, since the baby oil isn't working. I also don't like how much fragrance they add to it! I don't really want Max smelling like baby powder anyhow. I prefer his natural smell... (you know, spit up mixed with baby sweat with just a hint of old sock) :haha: Joking. I really love the way he smells and breathe in his lovely hair all of the time. I don't really want to mask that!

Dragonfly, YAY for laughing!! Max hasn't laughed yet, and I'm so looking forward to it. I bet you just melted!

Kellen, we sold our baby swing after DD#2, thinking it was our last baby. We also sold the exersaucer and crib, lol. We don't really have any baby equipment left :( It's not really equipment, but I would say that my favorite thing for Max is his Sleep Sac. He wears is every night instead of a blanket, and won't let me swaddle him anymore, so it keeps him warm with his arms free. He even wears it during the day a lot of times when it's chilly in the house. Oh, I also love his bathtub! It has a thermometer thing built in so I never have to guess if the water is too hot. I LOVE hot water and shower at about 110 degrees, so I'm not a good judge for safe temperatures :haha:

We're off to the 2-month check-up!


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## DragonflyWing

I did melt! I also laughed because he was laughing at DH's face :haha:

Our favorite baby gadget is the bouncy seat...they really like it, and the vibration is soothing to them. Gunnar is learning how to bounce himself, too, and it's really funny to watch him flail around trying to get it moving. :)


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## wamommy

We're back! Max is 13 pounds and 23 inches! That's 60th percentile for height, and 75th for weight. He's getting a bit chunky, and I love it!


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## helena

I nurse Kiara laying down sometimes if I am really tired but its often a bad move for us. Se always falls asleep which is great but she always swallows lts of air and if we both doze off she doesn't get winded so if grouchy later on :(

Favourite equipment...urm...don't think we have one!? Tough she does love her car seat or pushchair (we got the Phil and Teds Sport to fit two kiddos in), can they count? She sleeps great in both. It turns out she sleeps so much better outside, I often park her up outside while I play with our eldest two, or yesterday when I dug over some of our vege patch :) we also have a balcony on the upstairs level of our house and I sometimes pop her out there in her carrycot to sleep. 

Kiara a bit sad today as we all seem to have a bit of a gassy upset stomach issue going on :(

Going back to the complaining about MiLs we had going the other day, and them calling so often... My inlaws rang tonight as we were getting the kids to bed (hello?! Who would call a family with three kids under five at 8pm?) and when it becomes obvious we aren't answering they don't hang up thinking "oh, probably busy with the children", but let it ring on for ages, adding to the general noise and raised blood pressure going on here....two boys being little terrors and resisting going to end, one baby screaming with sore tummy, one grumpy husband, one stressed mum, phone blaring on and on and on....
Then they call back ten minuets later...let us call you if we are done!!?, arrrrrrrrrgh.

Had to let that out.

We have some mild cradle cap here, including in her eye brows. I will use olive oil, I tried it with my first too and think it helped, though he still has some at 4.5! Doesn't matter when they have lots of floppy hair though!


Yay for laughing Gunnar! Oh I can't wait for that! How lovely!!

Well done on chunking up Max. K has also grown some nice rolls at the top of her legs finally xx


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## helena

Yesterday I left Kiara for the first time since she was a week or two old (so then she didnt notice I was gone!). I had to take my middle baby to the doctors, so left K with daddy. When I got back, about an hour and a half later I got the most wont full smile and a little noise I think was excitement! I LOVED it! Have to take son back to the doc this afternoon so will be looking forward to my return! May even have a camera ready. It was so wonderful :)


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## Jo_Bean

I did that too Helena! I took the dog out and left hubby with O. When I came back in I got the most amazing smile. I think hubby was a little jealous to be honest :smug:


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## SierraJourney

Awww guys--that is so cute! Makes me want to leave just to come back and see if I get a smile! lol DH is the one that gets the smiles when he comes home from work. :) It's adorable. 

I don't have a favorite equipment right now. . .Camden cries whenever I put him down---no matter what I put him in. :( Maybe once a week when I try, he'll sit in the bouncer for 5 minutes without crying. :( I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with him. Cutting dairy didn't help. I have a call in to the doctor again. Hopefully they'll call back soon. He cries 98% of the time that he isnt' nursing! And it's not just a baby cry--it's a full-out scream. . red faced, arching his back, going stiff, voice cutting out--because he's crying so hard. I'm convinced it's reflux, but have to wait on the doctor to diagnose. He just acts like he is in pain all of the time :( I feel so bad! He still isn't napping AT ALL, which I thinks makes it worse. The nurse thinks he isn't napping because he's uncomfortable because of whatever is going on with him. :(

How often do your babies nurse? It's the only way to calm Camden down, so he's literally nursing every hour for an hour at a time. He's only off to change a diaper or for me to try to put him down in the swing or something. :( 

I'm really hoping for a fix here soon. . . it's so tiring. But I love him to death, and maybe 5% of the day, he'll be calm and I'll catch a couple smiles. Those times are worth it all. :) I just want him to feel better!


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## DragonflyWing

Aww, poor Camden! I hope they figure out what's wrong soon. 

I mostly pump, but G and L eat about every 4 hours during the day and about half the time they do an 8-10 hour stretch at night. When we nurse, they usually go for about 20 minutes.


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## Jo_Bean

Olivia sleeps for around 7-8 hours at night and feeds about 160ml in 20 mins every 4 hours through the day. Although sometimes she will do smaller feeds every 2 hours if she's particularly tired. 

I don't know how 'normal' her habits are because she still has physio and speech and language therapy for her muscles, including sucking.


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## Kellen

Teagen sleeps about 10 hours each night with a "dream feed" in the middle (ie mommy hears her fussing, feeds her, but she never wakes up for it). During the day she eats every 2-3 hours depending on her level of activity. She tends to start cluster feeding though at 8 until she goes to sleep around 10:30 or 11.

Right now she is on the floor "playing" with her baby gym. This morning we did tummy time, but she decided to cut it short by rolling herself onto her back. I thought it was a fluke so I made her do it three more times before finally thinking to grab the camera and video it. She is also in cahoots with the cat. A couple of nights ago she was in her swing and I draped her blanket across her lap. Since she doesn't like things on her feet I told her it was her job to kick the blanket off by the time I was done eating. Immediately the cat comes over, Teagen gives her a look and the cat pulls the blanket off... DH choked on his drink he was laughing so hard. I hadn't even gotten to take a bite of dinner...

Her swing is amazing. Her morning nap takes place in either her bed or ours while she takes two afternoon naps in the swing. It is supposed to be super nice today (around 85) so I think we'll go for a walk this evening once it cools down.


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## SierraJourney

Wow. . .definitely think something is wrong. Camden NEVER just sits and plays anywhere. I have to nurse him through EVERY meal that I eat or face uncontrollable crying. :( Thanks guys for the info. . . The doctor thinks it's reflux, too, and is having us start him on a medication tonight. Hopefully that will help the poor guy. :( I'll keep you posted. 

Kellen--I can't believe Teagen rolled over already!! That's crazy!! What a smart cookie she is! So cute!


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## wamommy

Oh Sierra, how tough! I hope Camden feels better. It sounds pretty miserable for the both of you :(

Max is a snacker, so he eats often but never huge amounts. I'd say he eats every 1-2 hours, but only 2 ounces or so at a time. Unfortunately, this continues on through the night! He usually follows a 2-hours-awake, 2-hours-asleep routine during the day. I try to time errands for the 2-hours-asleep time so he's zonked out in his carrier while I shop.

I can't believe Teagen rolled over already! That's GREAT, especially tummy to back, since I wouldn't worry so much about LO sleeping on his tummy if he could do that! I also think it's hilarious about the cat. They will be buddies, it seems :) We have 3 cats (one was mine before marriage, the other two were abused rescue-kitties with some severe issues) and they all LOVE my 4-year-old. They let her pick them up, dress them up, sleep on her, etc. They seemed completely disinterested in the rest of us, though! :haha:

I'm not positive, but I think AF is on it's way for me. What a bummer... I had hoped with combi-feeding I'd get a little reprieve. I don't miss the break-outs and the crankiness. Has anyone else already had AF? I'm at about 1/3 breast milk, 2/3 formula, so I'm probably the first to have the cycle return. On the plus side, today is my weekly weigh-in and I've lost 5 pounds in 3 weeks :D Now, if I could stop eating jelly beans it would come off much more quickly! :dohh:


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## helena

I know my babies seemed to get worse colic when they ate more ofen. Is like their digestive system just never got a break so they always had gas and pain. Not sure if that could be an issue with your little one.
When Kiara had her crying days it was really helped by a big bottle of formula. Like she ad been hungry before then, never quite full before, and always a bit grouchy. Ask t helps go longer between feeds. Usually every 3 hours in the day, a night we can, on a good night, go 5 hours, then feed and go anther 3. Though this week she has fed a bit more often, I sense another growth spurt.

With my first baby I was constantly worried about him beng hungry, clingy, bad napper (only in my arms or walking in stroller) and demanding. But it cleared she he was 3 months ish. I think he was just a sensitive baby, though at the te I worried about everything - reflux, allergies etc. I ate plain pasta and meat and virtually other else. I don't know if it helped. Tried reflux over the conger meds. Not sure if it helped. I saw the doc a lot. 
In the end he outgrew it quickly. I think being a baby is just tough.. Ad now he is a chunky 4 year old :) 
I hope Camden turns a corner and outgrows it soon for you and nothing is wrong xx


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## Jo_Bean

That does sound like reflux. It took 3 weeks of adding gaviscon to every feed before it made a difference to Olivia but she is loads better now.


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## SierraJourney

Oh thank you ladies---you are all so wonderful! 

wamommy--I'm not sure if I've had a true AF or leftover bleeding from delivery? I've had a day here and there where I'd spot. . . Not sure what it was? lol


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## DragonflyWing

I'm positive that I was the first to get AF back, since I think it was before any of you had your babies! :haha: Mine came back at 5 weeks postpartum, even though I was pumping 60+ oz of milk per day. Am I lucky or what?!

I was hoping that breastfeeding twins would guarantee a year or so without a period. Bummer.


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## Jo_Bean

I think I had AF about 10 days ago but can't be sure as it was a lot lighter than normal. I only had 3 day AFs before but this was even lighter than that. 

We also had an oopsie this morning. At the time I didn't know where I was in my cycle but I checked fertility friend and apparently I am due to ov tomorrow :dohh: so although it wouldn't be the end of the world, I'm a little nervous and will be until she arrives again. :dohh: my own fault. I don't want any kind of birth control because it took us 5 years the first time around so I really don't think it could happen anyway but even so, it wouldn't be the worst thing.
So I guess I am NTNP :shrug: eeek!


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## wamommy

:shock: I can't imagine getting pregnant again so soon, Jo! That said, wouldn't it be kind of a miracle too? It would give Olivia a close playmate :D I watch my girls everyday and think how lucky they are to have each other.

I'm glad I'm not the only victim of AF! What's weird is that it's light pink spotting, then nothing. A few days later pink spotting, then nothing. WTH?? I wish she would just show up and get it over with. I kind of feel like I have never-ending PMS!


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## Jo_Bean

Exactly. We would make the best of it. It would be hard when they are younger but I imagine, quite rewarding when they are a bit older. Then again, quite expensive as nt much time to save up in between big milestones! 

Oh well, it's probably nothing and just a silly oopsie :D


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## helena

Part of me would love another already...I just love tiny babies :) but I am pretty certain we are done.


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## Jo_Bean

We had some results back from Olivia's genetics tests today and the two conditions they were testing for; PWS and Myotonic Dystrophy, were both negative! 

As you can imagine, I was very relieved and had a happy little cry :cry:

We won't know what happens next until our next appointment on May 8th. So for now, we can just enjoy ourselves :thumbup:


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## helena

Great stuff Jo! Xx


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## SierraJourney

That's wonderful Jo!! So happy for you!


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## Kellen

Congrats, Jo, that is awesome news.

I feel like AF is going to start, but have yet to see anything. I told DH that if I am nasty to him to blame the hormones.

Last night I woke up because I heard Teagen moving around and making little noises I was about to get up when DH stopped me. Pretty soon we heard her sucking on her fist and before too long she had settled herself back to sleep. DH then decided when he got up at 5am that I needed a sleeping baby in the bed. :dohh: Love snuggling with her, but it wouldn't have hurt my feelings to have a couple of hours to sleep alone.


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## wamommy

So happy for you, Jo! Amazing news!!


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## helena

Oh Kellen, what was he thinking!? Lol ;)


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## Kellen

His mindset apparently was: "Awe... they look so cute when they snuggle together. And this will mean you don't have to get up to nurse her when she gets hungry... at 8:30." Gotta love the man, but he doesn't think like a mommy.

Have any of your babies been around people who smoke? If so how have you dealt with the issue? My in-laws (MIL, FIL and all 5 of DH's siblings and their spouses, plus some of their children) all smoke. We will be staying with them for 5 nights and I am stressed about it. I hate cigarette smoke and tend to become ill when exposed to it. I am also trying not to freak out about the fact that second hand smoke raises the chances of SIDS by 50%.


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## DragonflyWing

I would be concerned about my babies being around smokers, too...do they smoke inside the house? I would ask that they smoke outside while you're there, or if they won't, maybe stay somewhere else?

As for the increase in SIDS rate, I know a 50% increase sounds scary, but it's not as bad as it sounds. The risk of SIDS in healthy full term infants is about 0.00055% (1 in 2000 children). Increasing that by 50% only brings it to 0.0008%. Also, I think the increased risk applied to children that were exposed to second hand smoke on a longterm basis, not just for a few days.

I completely understand why you're worried, but I hope that helps a tiny bit.


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## Midnight_Fairy

My OH smokes :(

WOw at rolling over. Jade is nowhere near rolling!


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## Kellen

For all of you who have LO who are up all night I salute you. We had a huge and very loud thunderstorm last night. I am personally a huge fan and love the noise, but Teagen is not. Each time a big boom was heard she would scream from her bed. It finally got to be tto much up and down so I put her with her daddy. She calmed down and then they both started snoring. I slept in the recliner... There will be mommy naps today. But on the other hand the Ergo baby carrier I ordered showed up last night and I am excited to try it out.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I love your new Avatar! Teagen is such a strong girl. I LOVE how she's holding her head up so well :D

I love thunderstorms, too. What's funny is, I think Max would sleep BETTER if there was a ton of noise. He's used to his loud sisters running around screaming all day, and sleeps right through it. At night, when it's quiet, he freaks out. I bought a white noise machine, but it doesn't work very well. If I turn the TV on he likes it, but I can't sleep with it on! Sigh...

I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself today! My skin is breaking out terribly and I'm down about my body. I'm sure it will pass, and I'm hoping it's just AF hormones (even though it hasn't officially started yet!). I've told myself that when I lose these last 12 pounds I'll treat myself to a day at the salon. I haven't highlighted my hair in over a year, and I think it would really help!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy-a salon day sounds wonderful! Might treat myself to that some day soon too! I know my feet are in dire need of a pedicure because I haven't lotioned them or anything since baby has been born! :(


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## Jo_Bean

I booked up for a hair appointment today. Booked in for next Wednesday! I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet but I think I might have it all cut off into a bob (it's below my shoulders at the moment) I just fancy reinventing myself!

Love the new avatar Kellen x


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- your new avatar is awesome! What a cutie :)

wamommy- I would kill for a spa day. So jealous :). Sorry you're feeing down today, I sympathize. I've been having to try really hard to think positive thoughts lately. My mind tries to drag me down into negativity if I'm not careful.

I'm trying to convince DH to go out to dinner with me tonight. His aunt is staying with us until Sunday to help out with the babies while he works on our taxes, and she offered to watch them while we go out tonight. He's reluctant because he doesn't think we should spend the money, and he wants to use the time to work on taxes...but I'm trying to tell him WE MAY NEVER GET THIS OPPORTUNITY AGAIN :haha:. Plus I worked from home 4 days this week, which means I saved money on gas and lunches. Take me out, damnit!


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## SierraJourney

Yay Jo! So exciting! I haven't had a haircut in over 9 months! Crazy! I need to get myself booked soon!

Dragon- you should definitely go out! That'd be so lovely! I hope he says yes! Dh and Camden and I are going out to dinner tonight.. nothing fancy but I very much look forward to getting out of the house! I'm in this house every day all week long and don't get out! I feel I'm going to turn into a crazy lady soon! Ha!


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## Kellen

Thanks for all the comments on the picture. It was actually take about three weeks ago. She holds her head up way higher now, and props herself up on her elbows.

The spa sound lovely. I too am in need of a haircut and was going to get one today, but DH took the car since it was raining and I'm not going to put Teagen on the motorcycle with me. :lol: DH managed to get a haircut on Monday, now it is my turn.

We tried out the baby carrier today. It was awesome! We went for a 30 minute walk outside. Within five minutes of the walk Teagen was fast asleep. She stayed asleep in the carrier while I fixed myself lunch and did some laundry. I think it probably felt like she was back in the womb. I think it will work fantastically for our plane ride in three weeks. I also managed to call to schedule to have the electric turned off, the gas turned off, and the internet turned off. I can't believe we're actually moving... So excited!


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## DragonflyWing

That's awesome, Kellen, which carrier did you get?


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## Kellen

We got the Ergo Baby Carrier with the newborn insert just to make sure her head is super secure. We tried the Moby, but she hated it and would scream if we tried putting her in it. With this one she can have her arms free and it is easy for me to get on and off by myself. This way I won't need to take the stroller with us to the airport and can have DH take it in the moving truck.


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## helena

We have the Ergo too! I love it. W don't have the inset, but I wrap her Ina. Blanket first to make her a bit bulkier (otherwise it is fr 5kg plus I think?). Her head is secured well by the sun shade bit in fact if he is high enough.
I look forward to having her on my back when bigger.i .must watch the DVD for that!..

K was In ours today while I tidied the kitchen, played with my youngest boy and made the children's dinner. She was vey happily asleep the whole time :)

We had the Close baby carrier before and loved it, but. I got the Ergo from a Friend a few weeks ago and it is much more comfy.
I will be using it when I travel to the uk on planes and trains on my own next month. Baby on my belly, backpack on my back, car seat in one hand And one hand free :)

Must be something in the sir - I complained I had grey hair and felt fat yesterday :( haven't had time to style my hair in months!...


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## helena

Kellen, personally I wouldn't be concerned about SIDS if the exposure to smoke is short term, I assume the risk is for babies who live in a smoky house every day.
Good luck with getting people smoking outside. Surely most people would be happy to do so when a baby is involved?..


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## Kellen

I hope that they will smoke outside. I know for a while last year they stopped smoking in the house because my MIL was hospitalized for pneumonia. The doctor told her if she didn't stop smoking or inhaling second hand smoke she only had 5 years to live with the current condition of her lungs. She stopped for as long as it took her to be discharged from the hospital and is back to a pack and a half a day (I have no idea how many cigarettes that actually is, but it seems like a lot).

It is a sad day around here. We rehomed our kitty last night. She had started to become more actively interested in the wiggling baby and I caught her trying to jump in the crib with Teagen. I was also worried about the stress of moving her across the US. Now she is living with a very nice family and a dog. She loves dogs, hates other cats. I am very sad (DH is even more upset even though in the beginning be practically threatened to divorce me over the cat). Yet it is a relief not to have to clean the litter box, or worry about tripping over her while carrying thr baby. Now I can leave the bedroom door open when Teagen is napping and not rely on the monitor as much.

In other news Teagen just woke up after a 10 hour snooze (with a couple of dream feeds in between) and now has huge smiles. I changed her diaper and brought her into the living room where she proceeded to refill her diaper. She refuses to poop in a wet diaper. It must be clean and dry before she will poop. Now she says feed me... I guess I'll be a good mommy and obey. :)


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## DragonflyWing

The babies slept through the night for the second night in a row! DH and I actually got to sleep in the same bed all night for the first time since the babies were born! :happydance:

Sorry about your kitty, Kellen. :(


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## Kellen

Dragon, that is fantastic news! I bet that your DH was glad to have some non-baby time with you. I am so glad that the twins are settling in. :) And thank you for the condolences about our kitty.

Only 5 more pieces of furniture to sell before the 28th. My project for this afternoon is to go through all the baby clothes and throw out (ie give to pregnant person at DH's work) that no longer fit or I don't like.


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry about your cat, Kellen :( It sounds like it was for the best, though. I've considered rehoming one of ours (we have 3) after he scratched the girls a few times. After more careful conversation with my 4-year-old, though... we found out that each time they were scratched it followed a long session of tail-pulling and ear-blowing :dohh: Now we supervise the kids with the cats so that neither of them get hurt. They seem to have NO interest in the baby, though. That would concern me a bit if they tried to get in and sleep with him.

Congrats to all of you who got a full night's sleep last night!! Good babies :D Not that non-sleepers are bad, lol... Max's pattern is still sleep 1 hour, up half hour, sleep one hour, up for a half hour, all night. Last night he woke up at 4am and refused to go back to bed. Luckily DH woke up at 8am and took the baby for a couple of hours so I could sleep. We can't keep up with this schedule, though. It ruins the whole day. By the time I get up after my "nap," It's 11am!!

What IS your secret, ladies??


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## helena

We aren't sleeping through, we are sleeping worse than before...maybe two or three wakings now. Ok, it's not horrendous, but waking after 3 hours seems normal formK now. I can't seem to change that.
No idea how you can cope wamommy. What happens if you don't go to him? He screams and wakes everyone? What about if he could sleep in your bed, do you think that would help? Could your daughter be bribed?....


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## SierraJourney

After the first week, DH and I found what worked for us- feeding Camden extra before bed. We give him. 2 ounces of breast milk in a bottle after he's been swaddled, then once he's finished with that, I breastfeed him until he falls asleep. He's slept through ever since! If he doesn't sleep 8 hrs straight (or 9 or 10) then he sleeps 6 hrs, I nurse him again, then he's down for 2 more hours. It works like a charm! He has never slept less than that since he was 2 weeks old! Now naps... those are a completely different story! Ha!


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## wamommy

Oh yes, Helena. If Max could sleep in our bed it would be SO much better. All he really once is cuddles (well, and food) so I think if he knew I was next to him he would self-soothe a lot better. As it is, if I don't go to him he cries and cries, which wakes the girls, and then I have THREE grouchy munchkins to try to resettle. I try to grab Max before he gets to an all-out scream to prevent it. That in and of itself is exhausting. Even when I am asleep it's like a part of my brain doesn't shut off because it's waiting to jump up at the inevitable first cry. 

I tried bribing my 3-year-old to sleep in her own bed. She was so excited to get a "big girl surprise" if she made it ONE whole night in her own bed. Through our bath and story and teeth brushing she was ready to go! After about 5 minutes in bed with the lights off she freaked out and came downstairs. We put her back to bed, and she came right down. It was so exhausting! The up and down lasted for a few hours before we finally gave up. I suppose it's our fault for not sticking to it, but I'm just so tired that I don't feel up for the fight :( We went as far as to buy a new bed and sheet set, which she loves to play in! but won't sleep in... grr...

Sierra, that sounds like a great system! I usually offer a bottle at bedtime, but he won't usually eat more than an ounce or 2. I give him that, and then offer the breast as well. Usually he falls asleep right away doing that, but still wakes up an hour later. Maybe he gets a tummy ache? I never really thought of it before, since he doesn't usually cry (even when uncomfortable, poor guy) so maybe he only eats a bit at a time because he's in pain? I have no idea.


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## wamommy

Oh, also... Max is the nap king! He can sleep 3 hours straight in the day. There can be world war 3 going on with the girls, the dishwasher running, unloading groceries, and he snoozes away. Maybe he's part owl??


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## SierraJourney

Maybe he needs a lot of burps before bed? I envy his napping skills! I was soooooo thankful to get one 1.5 he nap from Camden today! Three hour naps would be lovely!!


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## Kellen

I too have a: "I'll sleep a night, but I refuse to nap" child. Teagen slept for 8 hours straight (7 in her own bed as I nurse her to sleep in ours ans DH transfers when he comes to bed). I heard her fussing a bit at 7 this morning so DH grabbed her for me and she nursed for a couple of minutes before passing back out. Now they as snoozing whilst I pump. She will probably sleep until 9 or 10 and wake up in time to be social at church.

We too typically give her a couple ours of expressed milk in a bottle and then nurse to sleep. Naps are getting better as I have taken to laying down with her to nurse at her 2pm feed. I will dose with her for an hour and then get up and she will sleep for another hour.

We have also developed a bedtime routine to help her know that it is time for sleep. I don't know if this contributes to her sleeping all night, but it certainly helps keep her calm and easy to soothe. Last night I did hear her stir a couple of times, but she found her fist and sucked on it for a moment before going right back to sleep.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen how much milk do you get when you pump? I usually get about 2 ounces total which I find frustrating because I feel I should be getting more !


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## Kellen

I generally pump in the mornings when I'm engorged and Teagen is still sleepy and only wants a taste. This morning I got 8oz combined. Next week will be the real test. DH signed me up to go to a financial class for three days to learn about business investing (since we'll be starting our own company in a couple months). I already let the people know I will be leaving every three hours to pump. I am curious to see how much I get each time. I go for about 15 minutes on each side during the morning since I finally got the electric pump from the insurance (only took them 8 weeks to send it!) Before that I was getting around 4oz with the manual pump.


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## SierraJourney

Wow. That's great Kellen! I should try to pump before Camden is awake- maybe that would help me get more! I'm always wanting to sleep more though- so I'll have to force myself a.bit! Haha let me know how next week goes- I've often wondered how much Camden really eats during the day!


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## wamommy

I pump a ton to try to increase supply, and have found that the pump first thing in the morning gets WAY more than the rest throughout the day. I get about 4 ounces total in the morning, and any other pump is lucky to get 1 ounce. I feed him from the breast throughout the day too, but he gets frustrated after 5-10 minutes and want a bottle. I figure that combined with pumpings/feedings he probably takes 10 ounces of breast milk a day, and about 20 ounces of formula. It's not ideal, since I'd love to ebf, but it's what works for us. 

I almost got up the nerve to take the baby to church today. We haven't been since he was born! Every time we've gone pre-baby there are people hacking away like their lungs might explode, so I'm terrified Max will get sick. I just KNOW everyone will be so excited to see the baby that they'll touch him and breathe in his face. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'll probably wait another couple of weeks before I brave it. By then at least cold and flu season will be over :D

Kellen, the class sounds fun! It's great that your DH is so supportive :) When is the big move?


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, I feel like I'm very similar to you in regards to pumping (except I haven't tried morning pumping because I'm always sleeping until I nurse him!) Did you ever go to a lactation consultant? I'm contemplating trying to go so they can weigh Camden, then weigh him again after nursing to see how much he eats.. just to see if I have low supply or not. I'm worried that I do since he nurses all day long with very few breaks. 

I've taken Camden to church for a few weeks now. I.just don't let anyone get too close, but he usually gets fussy after the music part is over, so I spend the rest of the time nursing him in the infant calming room where I can still hear and see the service. It's better than nothing I suppose but it's always a bit embarrassing when he starts getting fussy and mad during prayer! Lol

Yes Kellen, when is the move? Also, what kind of business are you starting? How exciting!


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## Kellen

DH heads out on the 29th and Teagen and I will fly out the next day. DH is starting a renewable resource company. The are more subsidies, grants and tax breaks in Oregon than Georgia so DH is super happy about that.

I generally only pump in the morning or during a night feed if she doesn't eat off both sides. She eats every 2-3 hours during the day so I'm not too concerned about supply. My child is hue... She is currently wearing 6 month size clothes and in a size two diaper. I am curious as to how much she weighs and how long she is now. Our appointment is on Tuesday. Not looking forward to the jabs. Anyone thinking of doing selective vax?


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## SierraJourney

Very cool Kellen! 

Wow Teagen is a good size! Camden is still in 1 size diapers and 0-3 clothes still.


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## Kellen

She is my chunky monkey, yet she has very few baby rolls. Her cheeks are super chubby and adorable though. She is bigger than our friend's 5 month old. I can't say I'm too surprised. I'm actually the shrimp of the family at 5'6". My sisters are 6' and 5'10" and my oldest nephew is 6'6". DH is 6'3" and the shortest one in his family is his sister at 5'9". I literally have to look up the entire time we visit...


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## wamommy

Sierra, I saw a lactation consultant a bunch of times with DD#1. We tried every supplement, pumped after every feeding, phoned every expert we could find, and I was still unable to produce :( It's actually been so much better this time, though. I stopped completely by 2 weeks with both girls (at my pediatrician's request) but this time I'm past 2 months! Even if it's only 10 ounces a day, I"m proud of myself for keeping at it.

Kellen, we're on an alternative vaccination schedule. I'm not an activist about vaccines or anything, and completely believe that our baby should be poked. We just start at 4 months instead of 2, and do one vaccine per month after that, instead of a bunch at one visit. I don't necessarily believe that there's any detriment to following the normal schedule, but DD#1 reacted so violently to her 2-month vaccines that I wanted to find another way to do it. In Washington State there is actually a ton of people who don't vaccinate at all, which is probably why we have one of the highest breakouts of whooping cough this year :dohh: I honestly support what every parent decides to do, since it's such a personal decision.

I just went jeans shopping... Worst...Decision...Ever. I'm about to go do my Ab Ripper X video (after I have a good cry). DH ordered me 2 pairs of my favorite jeans online and they just came in the mail. They are a size BIGGER than my pre pregnancy ones, and they still don't fit :( Helena, did you find it harder to lose the pudge with baby #3 than the other 2? 

Kellen, Teagen is so big! Max is in 3 month clothes now and size 1 diapers. He's 13 pounds, 23 inches. His face is super chubby, though, so from the neck up he looks like a chunk! My family is all rather large. I'm 5'8" and my brother is 6'4". DH is only 5'11", though, and is half Japanese (his Mom was 5'3 90 pounds) so who knows how these kids will end up!


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## Kellen

Does anyone else's LO hum while they sleep? I am sitting in the living room with DH and Teagen is asleep in our bedroom humming. It is adorable... except when I am trying to sleep. She was asleep in our bed after a nursing session, but kept startling herself by moving arms and legs. I asked DH to come help me swaddle her so she would stay asleep. His brilliant idea was to pick her up, wrap a blanket around her shoulders and put her in her bed. Lo and behold she woke up two minutes later. So I gave her two oz of milk and she started snoozing on my shoulder. Now she is in a loose swaddle and humming contently to herself. Sometimes mommy knows what she is talking about (given Teagen normally flips out if you swaddle her so I understand DH's reticence to actually swaddle, but you need to read the situation). I'm going to get a Zipadee-Zip for her. I think it will work great for when we are in Texas and settling into our new home in Oregon.

Wamommy - I knew that the Pacific Northwest has a huge number of anti-vaxers. We are going to get all her shots for 2 months on Tuesday, only because we are traveling via airplane two weeks after that. Once we settle in in Oregon we are thinking of doing a selective vaccine schedule. There are some vaccines that I don't think are particularly needed, but others like Whooping Cough are a must.

This is the link to the sack thing. I think it is cool especially since she has been having really cold hands when I pick her up to nurse in the middle of the night (nothing wakes one up more than tiny cold, icy fingers running down your rib cage!) https://zipadeezip.com/shop/best-sellers/the-stars-and-stripes/


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, that's wonderful that you've stuck with it so long!!! So cool! Does anyone else's lo cry when they're nursing? Camden will do this about every other feed... on and off the nipple crying. Breaks my heart (and so frustrating!)... another reason I might call a lactation consultant. 

Kellen- that's so cute about the humming! Camden doesn't hum in his sleep but hums and squeaks and makes contented sounds when he nurses (if he's not doing the crying thing!) I love it!

Camden's appointment is on Thursday and that's when he'll be getting his first vaccines. I haven't really been able to think about any alternative plans because Dh is adamant that we get vaccines and stick to the schedule. Wamommy, now I'm curious-- how did your dd react to vaccines? Should I be worried about Thursday?


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## Jo_Bean

Can't help with the crying whilst BFing but Olovoa cried if her teat on her bottle needs replacing or if it's been in the steriliser for too long and tastes of milton. Not sure if that helps at all though :dohh:


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## Kellen

No, Teagen doesn't cry much except if she needs something or is startled. She is like a little leach when she is hungry and wants to latch. I'm not sure what to tell you. Poor Camden. I'll let you know how Teagen reacts to her jabs.


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## wamommy

Sierra, I wouldn't be worried about the jabs . Most babies handle it completely fine. If anything, they may be fussy for a day or 2. My DD#1 spiked a fever and got a rash all over her body. I freaked out and took her into the ER, who said it was anaphylaxis and had to keep her over night. My pediatrician has assured me that it probably won't happen with the other kids, but I'm still scared.

I'm glad you're seeing a lactation consultant, Sierra. I hope they can help you and Camden so that he's more content and gives you a bit of a break! Max does hum and squeak while he's nursing and eating, though. Sometimes he sounds like a kazoo!


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## wamommy

OOPS, double post :dohh:


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## helena

Kiara can cry s bit when nursing, sometimes she will be on and off the nipple hurriedly, getting upset and generally it is when she has trapped wind, needs burping or needs a poo. After whatever needs moving has moved she can feed and be less frustrated.
She also does it when I don't have enough milk flowing for her liking - if I give her a bottle then she calms right down.

I am very pro vaccines and can get quite annoyed by people being scared based on rumors that they can cause autism etc. It's why the uk has a measles outbreak and a whooping cough outbreak.both a diseases we can prevent and yet people are ill and dieing. Risk of autism v the chance of death...
If everyone was vaccinated it wouldn't be able to travel. I just tend to trust my doctors advice.
This is based of the fact my kids haven't had any reactions to the ingredients of the vaccines.
Kiara's vaccines have been moved forward a month so we can travel to the uk and risk inflight germs and whooping cough..

Just had a bath with Kiara and I laughed and she laughed back at me! With the most beautiful big wide grin and laugh. LOVED it!! Am on cloud 9 :)


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena... that must have been wonderful!! I can't wait for the first laugh :D There's nothing better, huh?

One reason I'm so careful exposing Max to people is because he isn't vaccinated yet (but will be). I'm not concerned with the autism link, but rather the allergy. Apparently it's the egg component used in vaccines? Albumen or something, however you spell it. Anaphylaxis after vaccines is about a 1 in a million (literally) problem, so I shouldn't be concerned with Max, but can't shake the fear. My girls are fully vaccinated now, since they'll start school this fall :D


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## Kellen

Horrible tragedy in Boston. I pray that everyone affected will be okay.

In other news Teagen was fussy while trying to eat so I propped her up to burp her. When I did she spit up nice chunks of "cottage cheese." While smiling at me she gets her "poop" face so I know it is coming. What I didn't know was that DH was trying to finish out our supply of size ones. Tricky baby managed to get poop on my pants, my underwear and somehow my bra.

Took my motorcycle out for a spin and to the shop. DH accidentally killed my battery this winter...


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## SierraJourney

Thanks everyone! 

Wamommy- i was so busy working yesterday, I didn't get a chance to call the lactation consultant. Hopefully today though.

Kellen- oh my goodness! What a poo that must have been!! 

Glad you got out a bit- sounds like fun!


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## DragonflyWing

Hope everyone had a good weekend. We had a bit of drama on Saturday...DH was trimming Lily's nails and accidentally cut her finger :(. All three of us cried. In all the years I've known him, I have never seen DH cry...he was so upset and guilty. I had to have one arm around him while I held the baby because they both needed comforting. :cry:

However, within 5 minutes, Lily was sound asleep in my arms, and within 24 hours, the cut just looked like a little red dot on her finger. Babies heal so fast!


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## Kellen

We had our two month check up today and Teagen got her vaccines. She weighs 13.6lb and is 24 1/2 inches long. We were cleared to fly in two weeks and the doctor advised giving a little Tylenol before the flight to help with calmness and any potential pain from cabin pressure. Because she has such good head control and can roll our pediatrician is classifying her as a four month old in her notes.

Dragon - that must have been very traumatic for all of you. My DH won't get anywhere near Teagen with fingernail clippers. Let's keep in mind that he is a pet groomer. He cuts dogs and cats nails for a living! So I do it when she goes limp while nursing.


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## SierraJourney

Way to go Teagen! Such a smart little girl! How'd the shots go?

Dragon- I'm so sorry- that's so hard! I keep worrying about doing that every time I cut Camdens fingernails! It's scary!


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## Kellen

She turned a fantastic shade of purple before letting everyone know she did not appreciate being stuck with three needles. The oral vaccine went well as she is used to taking vitamin d from a syringe. The pediatrician suggested we pick up some infant Tylenol just in case she has a fever or seems to be in pain. We just finished eating and now I am feeling a nap. She is a little more tired than normal, but I expected that.


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## SierraJourney

Awww poor girl! I just know my heart is going to break seeing Camden in pain! :(


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so sorry that happened! How tough for all of you :( I cut the tip of DD#2's finger the night she came home from the hospital, and DH still won't let me live it down. I don't know why I was cutting her nails when she was 24 hours old, but I felt a strong need to :dohh: I cried and called the hospital and told them "I cut my baby's finger off!!" They must have thought I was looney, but it was awful. I'm so glad Lilja is all better. 

I meant to ask, did you ever convince DH to go out to eat the other night, Dragon? 

Kellen, I'm so glad Teagen's jabs went well :D She's so tall! And do strong! Max is still pretty wobbly. He's getting a tad better with his head, but still has the random head-butt and fall back that scares me. He's nowhere NEAR rolling, though. He flops around on his stomach when he gets uncomfortable and looks completely stuck, poor guy, lol.


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy said:


> Dragon, I'm so sorry that happened! How tough for all of you :( I cut the tip of DD#2's finger the night she came home from the hospital, and DH still won't let me live it down. I don't know why I was cutting her nails when she was 24 hours old, but I felt a strong need to :dohh: I cried and called the hospital and told them "I cut my baby's finger off!!" They must have thought I was looney, but it was awful. I'm so glad Lilja is all better.
> 
> I meant to ask, did you ever convince DH to go out to eat the other night, Dragon?

Yes, I did! I finally got him to agree by offering to stop at a client's house to pick up some equipment he had needed for a while. Unfortunately, that stop took about an hour when it should have taken 5 minutes (DH is a talker, and so is his client, so they got on a roll and I was sitting in the car waiting for an hour :haha:)...so we got to the restaurant about 30 minutes before they closed. It was a chinese buffet, so a lot of the good stuff was gone, and they wouldn't replenish it so close to closing time. Hmph. Anyway, it was nice to get out for a little while.


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## helena

I Avent cut Kiara's nails yet..must do, she is pretty scratchy. They must've just shortened themselves though as they aren't excessively long..
She is having a mega sleep day today. Apart from an hour she has been asleep from 1pm to now (10pm) and I am putting her to bed. Hope it doesn't mean daytime will start at 3am!


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## SierraJourney

Oh wow helena! That's a huge sleep! And here I thought I was doing well for getting Camden to nap about 4 hrs on and off today! How much do your lo's usually sleep during the day? I'm still trying to regulate Camdens naps. I think the reflux medicine is starting to help because he's never slept that much during the day! Also, where do you have your babies nap? I've been putting Camden down in his swing or pack nplay downstairs during the day but wonder if he should be in his crib?


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## Kellen

We have been doing naps in the swing or co-sleeping on the bed. Teagen takes a huge morning nap and a couple of smaller ones in the afternoon. Today is all funky though. She is super fussy and screamy (which is a first) but I know it is from the shots. I just gave her a dose of Tylenol to help her settle. She is a little warm so I suspect she has a slight fever.


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## wamommy

Max naps in the pack and play downstairs, and he sleeps anywhere from 2-3 hours at a time in there. It also has a tiny mobile that he loves, and I can put him down in there for about 20 minutes at a time to do dishes, make dinner, or whatever, and he just zones out or coos at his "friends". The best nap he takes is usually when we run errands in the afternoon. I know it's horrible to keep them in their car seats so long, but Max will sleep through up to 3 hours of errands, and then his timer goes off and he needs to go home and get out of his seat. I know I'm so lucky that he naps well... if only he could figure nights out! LAst night he was up until 3:30am and then woke up at 6am for the day. Yes, I got 2 1/2 straight hours of sleep! Unfortunately, that's all I got last night, lol. I still managed to vacuum the whole house today :D I always feel better when I do that, even if there's clutter around, if the kitchen counters are clean and the carpet is vacuumed I feel like I'm doing alright :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Wow Wamommy- you're ambitious on so little sleep!

Do you put your lo's down awake or do you nurse them to sleep? I can only get Camden to sleep by nursing him! :(


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## Kellen

Teagen is getting better about being alone to sleep as she will find her fist to suck on, but typically I nurse her to sleep in our bed. In the morning I can put her in her bed, but in the afternoon she is a much lighter sleeper and will wake up if moved.


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## DragonflyWing

G and L nap and sleep in their pack 'n play basinnet. Sometimes they nap in the bouncy seat if they fall asleep there. Once in a while they'll nap in the crib in the bedroom...but right now that's mostly being used as a laundry basket :haha:

I always try to put Lily down awake, because she doesn't usually fall asleep on her own for naps. She'll fall asleep at the end of a bottle, but as soon as she's moved she wakes up. I'd love to just hold her while she naps, but with two babies that's hardly practical. Unfortunately, they don't really have a nap schedule...when I'm home I try to put Lily down when she starts looking tired, but my success rate is only about 40%. Gunnar is such an easy baby, he'll just fall asleep wherever he is, and doesn't usually wake up when you move him. He doesn't fight sleep, either, whereas Lily will do everything in her tiny power to avoid sleeping.


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## Kellen

Here is an updated tummy time picture.

Now we have an hour before she can have another dose of Tylenol and she is miserable. She doesn't want to nurse, doesn't want to play. I feel so bad. :cry:
 



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## wamommy

Sierra, I almost always have to feed Max to sleep, which I know is a no-no. It's the only thing that really works so far, though :blush: I've been trying to put him down awake, but he doesn't self-settle. Maybe once he learns to self soothe he'll sleep longer? 

Dragon, it's amazing how babies are so different isn't it? How lucky that Gunnar is such a content boy :D THey will hopefully balance each other out as they grow.

Kellen, oh poor Teagen :( I hope she feels better! She certainly looks great. What a strong girl!


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## SierraJourney

Babies are so different. I love being on this board because we all bring so much helpful information! I know that I'm not alone, yet that each baby is so very different! Thanks ladies!

Kellen, Teagen is soooo strong! And calm! Lol Camden cries all through tummy time! So sad she's feeling so miserable! :( poor girl! Hopefully a nice long night's rest will help!


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## Kellen

After an 8 hour snooze she seems much more content. She woke up for a quick bite to eat and is now passed out on my lap snoring.

Thank you. She is super strong. In that picture she really looks like her dad. She does get somewhat upset during tummy time if she can't A) use mommy's to scoot across the floor or B) roll over when done. If these things don't happen on her timetable calm happy baby can instantly turn her entire head purple with silent screams.


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## SierraJourney

So glad she's feeling better!! So funny about tummy time! Babies sure do want their own way on their own timetable!


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## helena

Wamommy I am like you, it's all about having a clean floor! :)

Kiara still sleeping lots. Was a 4 hour nap this morning. She is having a growth spurt I am sure. She has mastered the smile: 
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/43D2A13D.jpg


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## SierraJourney

Ahhh so cute Helena!!! Precious!

I've found out that Camden has a dimple when he smiles- adorable!

How often do your los poo? Camden usually goes multiple times a day, then all of a sudden now he hasn't pooped in two days! Internet says I shouldn't be concerned but it was so sudden !


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## DragonflyWing

Helena, what an adorable picture! Beautiful smile :D

Sierra- Lily poops multiple times a day, and Gunnar poops once every couple of days. Weird, because they eat the same thing! They've both been blowing out their diapers almost every time they poop over the past week, and waking up in the morning soaked in pee...I think we're getting close to needing size 2 diapers.


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## wamommy

Gorgeous, Helena! What a truly cheerful grin! :D

Max went through a stage where he literally pooped 10 times a day, but has now evened out to about 6. He went 2 days without pooping once, and I was worried enough to google like crazy. Like Dragonfly said, some babies only poop once every couple of days, and that's normal too. Just be ready for the blow out when it comes! :dohh:

I had a question about size 2 diapers, too. The ones we use (size 1) say 9-14 pounds or something. The #2s say 12-18. Max is 13 pounds, so which should we use? To be fair, most of his weight is in his head and tummy. He legs and butt are quite tiny. Maybe I'll stay in 1s for another week or 2 to see if he really needs to move up?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! We will see when his blow out comes! Lol he was pooping so much each time he went before that I'm almost scared to see what 2 days worth looks like! :rofl: I hope we're at home when it happens! Ha!

Wamommy, I was wondering the same thing about diapers!


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## helena

Kiara poops maybe twice a day but around two months she went through a week where it was suddenly just once every two or three days. No idea why. She was fine.
We use size two pampers, have for a few weeks, not sure if Europe and US have the same sizing?


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## SierraJourney

I don't want to curse myself but Camden is on his THIRD nap today! One was only 30 minutes long, but the second one was 3 hrs long, and now he has been sleeping for 30 minutes and is still sleeping! I reallty think the acid reflux medicine is working! Hooray!! So excited- this is a record for us!


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## Kellen

We are in size 2 because she was blowing out the sides of her size 1. Like Max she has a skinny bum but a round belly. We use Huggies.

That is a gorgeous smile, Helena!

I just got back from a haircut. I took Teagen with me and she was a gem. I timed it for our afternoon nap. Everyone loved her. I now feel human... and immediately after I typed that Teagen blew out her diaper. Out the front, up the back and through both sides. We had been warned of "potentially loose stools" from the vaccines. Now mommy and baby both need a bath.


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## Kellen

Congrats on the naps, Sierra. So glad that your little man is feeling better.


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## SierraJourney

Wow I didn't know vaccines caused loose stool! Sorry about the blow out!!


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## mrsswaffer

Ooh! I just found this thread. :D :hi:

Harrison was due on 20th February, but came on 14th. :) Our :yellow: bump turned :blue: at 01:05am! He's 9 weeks old today.


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## Kellen

Welcome, Mrswaffer! And congrats on your little V-day baby. I think the majority of our bumps came out on the 4th and 5th... they just couldn't wait any longer! Beautiful name that you chose. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Hi, mrsswaffer :) Congratulations on your Valentine's baby!

My twins were so impatient, they only waited util 12/19 to make their debut!


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## wamommy

Welcome, mrsswaffer! How is everything going with Harrison?


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## mrsswaffer

Aside from the feeding side of things, very good. I'd say we score a C+ on the BFing front! Still a shallow latch and I am still in pain, though I'm going to chat with some lactation consultants tomorrow. Fingers crossed this gets sorted before my nips get any worse. :(


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## wamommy

:( I'm glad you're getting some help, though! Helena introduced me to some amazing nipple shield things that you wear under your bra when not nursing, and it helped a ton. Helena, do you still have the links? They make a little dome over your nips when dressed so they don't touch anything and can air dry. 

Yesterday we went out to eat with Grandma and my kids' 5-year-old cousin. I didn't know until halfway through the meal that she was sick! Now I'm freaking out that my kids (and especially baby) will get it. Fingers crossed!


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## mrsswaffer

Eeep! I hope your kids don't get ill. :(

Ah yeah, breast shells? I looked at some today - I should get some actually, because I do think friction definitely does not help! :p


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## helena

Hi! Yes breast shells, or google Breast Angels - they are the best! Silverette cups.

Hi and welcome :)


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## Kellen

So Teagen hates to be swaddled, but she still startles herself when she sleeps. I found this site that sells a thing called a Zipadee-Zip that is supposed to help transition babies from a swaddle to normal jammies. I ordered two (because there was a sale) and we got them Wednesday night. The past two nights she has slept a solid 10-12 hours. She also stopped fighting me at bedtime and calms down in five minutes instead of two hours. She looks like a little starfish when she sleeps now. I also used it at naptime yesterday and she went to sleep without nursing. It was fantastic and allowed me to actually clean my house and pack a few more boxes.


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## wamommy

Woohoo, go Teagen! I followed the link you gave the other day and watched the video on their website. It's TOO cute! You're right, it makes a baby look like a little starfish :D Max hates being swaddled, but his little hands get super cold at night, so maybe this would be a good option?

I'm running on fumes today, ladies. I thought by this time sleep would start to improve, but it's getting worse (is that even possible>??) Last night Max didn't sleep. No, I don't mean "barely slept". He didn't sleep... at ... all. I'm completely shattered and near meltdown :( DH, however, slept peacefully until 8:30!! :grr:


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## mrsswaffer

Oh yes, the husbands do! It's amazing what they can sleep through. :p

Harry doesn't like swaddling either, and his hands get cold too. It doesn't seem to bother him though. I do have some grobags, and actually haven't been putting him in anything these past few nights (just bodysuit and sleepsuit), but I think tonight, I'll try the 1 tog grobag, to see if he settles better. :)

Recently, his sleep pattern goes like this: 8:30pm-12am-2:30am-4am-6am ish. And then whingey until 8am, when I can't stand the whingey-bum sound anymore! Hehe!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - That is so harsh. I am sorry that Max isn't wanting to sleep and that your DH sleeps too well. I can't even imagine how exhausted you must be. I'll be out to the Pacific Northwest in 15 days... we'll swap kids for a couple of nights so I can experience the joy of an awake newborn and you can bask in the bliss of 12 hours of baby sleep. :)

Mrswaffer - Teagen's hands get really cold at night. The nice thing about the Zipadee is that they are covered and I feel like a better mommy because she isn't cold. I sleep really hot so I feel bad when I turn down the temperature in the house. At least now I know she is cozy.


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## wamommy

:rofl: Kellen, I wouldn't put you through that! Tempting though :winkwink:

I'm actually fuming right now. DH is sleeping on the couch while I wash the kitchen and make lunch for the kids. He's "so tired" because he had a dentist appointment today. I haven't slept in *30* hours... wtf?? Listening to him snore away is literally making me want to punch him.


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## mrsswaffer

Argh!! Men!!!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, I would seriously fill a bucket with ice and water and dump it on him! That's ridiculous!!

Have you asked Max's doctor about the not sleeping? That seems like an awfully big struggle with night sleeping. Maybe the dr would have some tips? At any rate, I hope you get some sleep soon and your husband gets ice water dumped on him! ;)


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## Kim2012

Wamommy i hear u on not sleeping I have had days where we stretch the whole night up unti 5am.Luckily that was durin DS's holidays otherwise i woulnt be able to wake up at 8 for the school run....The best thing about being a mother is even if you sleep that late when LO wakes up with a smile you happily return the smile.

I would be luck if i get 3hrs straight in a night, I am exclusively breastfeeding and one of my friend mentioned she is not sleeping because she is hungry? she said formula is more substantial and more 'tummy filling' for babies during the night. I wonder, I may try it and see if i get any improvement in sleep

Does any of your LOs have eczma, Brianna has eczma and part of the not sleeping is probaby because she is scratching.I have eparderm from the GP and I dont feel like its helping. Any suggestions ? or recommendations?

Have a lovely weekend everyone!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I didn't mention to Max's doctor at his 2-month appointment, but I wish I had! I figured he is just not a great sleeper, but you're right, there may be an underlying cause... hmmm...

As for the ice water, as tempted as I was, I just banged pots around in the kitchen until he got the hint!! 

Kim, Max doesn't have any eczema, but we're still struggling with cradle cap. The poor kid has had every kind of oil dumped on his head and still has scales and flakes :(


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, maybe give the dr a call? I call my dr quite a few times... it's really helpful!


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## mrsswaffer

Kim, that's true about formula. Breast milk is less filling, but more easily digested. I'm exclusively breastfeeding too, and Harry won't go more than 3 hours in the day, and four hours at night. :)


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## Kellen

Kim, I'm exclusively breast feeding Teagen and she does sleep through the night. She tends to cluster feed from around 8-9:30 when she finallt goes to sleep. I guess that is her way of tanking up for the evening. She eats around every two hours during the day. No eczema here. Good luck with that, it does not sound fun for either one of you.


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## helena

Since I introduced a bottle before bed we can sometimes get a five hour stretch :) after that I breastfeed and she is up every to hours again. 
Kiara has a sleeping bag and seems ok in it. Cold hands too though, but she doesn't mind - its the temperature on their chest which indicates how warm they really are.
Another big sleep day so far, I have never known a baby to sleep so often..I think she is only awake 5 or 6 hours out of 24! Lots of growing I think. I just put her on a 3 month bodysuit and it fits :) considering she was 2.5 kilo at one point and is now about 5 kilos I am happy with her. She seems to be wanting more and more formula though...averaging about 3 bottles a day now instead of the two we originally introduced at 2 months. Ah well, what will be will be.
Wamommy...I would be having serious talks with DH..it's nt like it s only you and 1 baby..
How is the look battle going wamommy? I hovered ths morning and even mopped yesterday (laminate) so double points for me!..:) I dd however confiscate boxes of toys fom my boys this week - I swear they just tip thm out and don't actually play with them or ever put them away...so right now I am winning the floor battle :)

Last weekend my husband amazed me with what he could sleep through. We had and friends over for a BBQ and he had had a few drinks. He was sleeping on the sofa and I put baby at the other end of the sofa while I popped outside to tidy up. I could hear Kiara eating upset from the other end of the garden but when I came inside DH was sleeping soundly while Kiara screamed with all her might and wet red t the other end of the sofa! Amazing...
I was up 6 times last night (growth spurt? Hungry?) and he didnt notice 5 of them..


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## wamommy

Haha, Helena, I know exactly what you mean about the toys! Sometimes I think the game IS dumping all of the toys on the floor, and not actually playing with them. I have bins and toy boxes all over the house, but it still looks like Toys'rus blew up in our house.

I guess our DHs just aren't trained to wake up to baby's cries? I stir at every whimper, but I think I go to sleep ready and waiting for it. I can't imagine sleeping right through his screams, lol. IT's so amazing that you have 3 kids, including a new baby, and are able to host a barbeque! I bow down! :) 

Max is sick :( It breaks my heart! I am a little ticked off, too. I have been SO diligent about where he goes and who he sees to try to prevent it, and figured my Mom would tell me if my niece was sick before bringing her to lunch. I know it's bound to happen and not the end of the world, but still... it's so hard to watch him snort and cough. Poor guy :(


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## helena

Poor Max. Sending him a cuddle from sniffling Kiara.. She has had a cold pretty much from two weeks :( but she is ok withit. I put a humidifer on in her room some nights, and squirt her up the nose with a little bit of saline a lot. It is building them up - getting their immune system up and running. 

Hosting a BBQ was actually easy - our kids run off and play with the other kids and there were a few ladies always happy to watch or cuddle the baby :) everyone is a winner :) I recommend every new mum do it! Lol.


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## Kellen

Congrats on the successful BBQ and hugs to all the poor sniffling kids. At least their little immune systems are working to try to fight off the bugs. I'm sorry they don't feel good.

Helena - How is your mom doing these days? I know you and Kiara are planning to go see her soon. I hope that trip goes well. I would hate being so far away during such a time. :(

Less than two weeks before I get to be with my folks. We pick up the moving truck next week. I am going to talk to DH today about getting a motel room when we are at his parent's house due to the smoking factor. I asked our pediatrician and she said to keep Teagen away from anyone who smokes as much as possible. She also said that Teagen still has somewhat "floppy" airways and the smoke could be dangerous to her breathing skills.


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## helena

Getting a motel room seems sensible. Less stressful too. 
Good luck putting the idea forward :)

I am finally getting to introduce Kiara to my parents in two weeks! Yay! Mum is the same, still battling on with chemotherapy, good days and bad. Can't wait for her to meet K and for K to show her her new skill of smiling :) We go the first weekend of may :)

Do your little ones sleep a lot? I am starting to wonder if K sleeps too much.. Though maybe that isn't possible. Maybe her being a few weeks early is a factor, she has growing to catch up on. Plus her colds..

An average day:

Wake 7
Nap 8.30 until 11.30 or 12.
Nap 2-4
Nap 5-7
Bed at 9 or 10..

Though every day is different. No routine.


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## Kellen

Teagen is a nighttime/morning sleeper.

9:30pm -Sleep
6am - Wake
7-9 -Sleep
10-12 sleep
2-4 sleep
She then stays awake until 9:30 or 10 when I go take her to our bed and nurse her.

Seems like Teagen may have an hour more awake than Miss K, but not a big noticeable difference.

#1 Reason to get a motel - internet. Just kidding... but seriously, my in-laws have dial-up. It is difficult to surf the net on a Kindle. 5 Days without the internet if we don't get a room. 5 Days of smelling cigarette smoke. I know my MIL will yell at DH, but for Teagen's sake we cannot stay there.


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## SierraJourney

I agree with the motel idea!! She doesn't need to be in a smoky house!

I'm still super jealous of your babies sleep! Still struggling here.. on a new reflux Med but he isn't showing improvement. Also, he hasn't pooped for a week now! Dr said to give it a week so I'm calling her tomorrow if he doesn't poo before then!


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry Kiara is sick too :( But like you said, it's getting their little immune systems working. Max is a bit better today, thank goodness! 

Sierra, I would definitely call the Dr, just to be sure all is well. Maybe his new medicine is causing constipation? I've read that it isn't uncommon for babies to have poop-free stretches like this, but a Doctor could tell you for sure. Poor guy :hugs:

Kellen, I think the motel idea is a great one! Not only because of smoke and internet (although they are both great reasons!) but also just for the privacy. I find that when I go visit family I get "peopled-out" and need some time to unwind. This is especially true for me with a baby. Having your own space to return to might make the entire trip more fun :D

Does anyone drink coffee? I'm super paranoid about passing it on to Max through breast milk, so when I have one (maybe once a week?) I pump and dump it out for 5 hours to be sure :wacko: I drink decaff, but it just isn't the same! What do you guys do?


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## Jo_Bean

Sorry about the sick babies :( hopefully they will get better soon!

Kellen - defo go for the motel! Just the smoke alone is reason enough!

Olivia doesn't sleep much in the day really. Maybe 3 or 4 short 30 minute naps. But then usually sleeps for 12 hours at night (with a couple of feeds). I'm beginning to wonder at what point she actually goes longer between feeds in the day, but then, she does very often go for a long time in the evening between feeds, so I guess she just prefers to catch up in the day! :shrug:


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, I haven't had regular coffee since I was ttc, and I miss it sooo much! I usually stick to a decaf but only a small one every couple weeks or so... 

Jo, Camden eats all the time during the day but only once at night. I have yet to see his feedings space apart. 

Well Dh has a cold and I'm soooo paranoid that Camden and I are going to get it. I obviously dont want the baby to get it but also am super worried about me getting sick because I'm already so stressed with working full time and taking care of Camden- how could I do it all if I was sick?! Have any of you been sick with an lo yet? How'd you manage?


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## DragonflyWing

I don't drink coffee, but I do drink caffeinated soda once or twice a week, and I don't pump and dump. I don't think caffeine is a problem unless you're taking in a lot...like, more than 200mg a day. You could try it and see if you notice any difference in the baby, like fussiness or not sleeping well.

The babies have slept through the night consistently for the past week :happydance: The only downside to that is they are not gaining weight as well now. Over the past week, Lily has only gained 3 ounces, and Gunnar has gained _nothing_. I was shocked when I weighed him, because he has gained 1.5 oz a day practically since he came home. Going from 10 oz a week to nothing is a big change! However, it's only one week, so I'm not going to worry about it yet. I'm just going to make sure DH gets as much milk into them during the day as possible. Yesterday, lazy Lily didn't get up for the day until noon (she had fussed until after midnight, so we let her sleep in), so it was really hard to get all her calories in before bedtime. She went to bed as usual at 10ish, but woke up a little later for another bottle, so at least I know they'll wake up if they're really hungry.

I am continually amazed at how different my two babies are when it comes to food and sleep. Gunnar practically lives to eat, and he'll eat and eat until he barfs if you don't cut him off. Lily doesn't particularly like to eat, so she'll just eat until she's not hungry anymore, making disgusted faces the whole time, then she's done. He eats 8-10 oz every 2-3 hours during the day, and she eats 4-5 oz every 3ish hours during the day. Haha, that's why he's 25% heavier than her!

As for sleeping, Gunnar's the easiest baby ever. If he's tired, he falls asleep wherever he is, and he transfers to the crib beautifully. He also goes to sleep on his own if you put him down awake, just give him his pacifier and he drifts off in minutes. He's somewhat of a restless sleeper and usually wiggles around until he's perpendicular to where he started (usually ramming his head into Lilja or smacking her in the face lol). If he wakes up on his own, he never cries unless he's hungry or if he spit up and needs to be cleaned up. This morning, DH and I heard some noises from the crib, so we went over to check on them...Gunnar was lying awake, just looking around and singing to himself "ahhh, oohhhh, eeeee..."

Lily is a terror when it comes to sleep. If you put her down awake, there's about a 95% chance she will scream her head off within 3 minutes no matter what you do. She likes being rocked to sleep, but she does NOT transfer well...if you don't wait until she's deeply asleep, she'll wake up and scream as soon as you put her down. Even if you wait until she's completely unconscious, you only have about a 50% chance that she'll stay asleep when you put her down. She seems to hate going to sleep, and fights it tooth and nail, but when she finally goes down, she sleeps soundly for up to 12 hours at night. 

Gunnar has said his first word! It's not a real word :haha:, but he uses it consistenly for the same thing. Whenever he wants his pacifier, he says "ning." He started it on his own, and we've encouraged it by saying it every time we put the pacifier in his mouth, and he says it all the time now. As soon as that pacifier falls out..."ning!" and if we're not fast enough getting to him, "*whine whine* NIIIING!!" He even does it on command. Last night, he was whining and DH thought he wanted the pacifier, so he said "Do you want your ning? Tell me what you want." and Gunnar looked at him and said very quietly "ning." We were peeing our pants, it was so cute. Lily has said it a few times, but she doesn't say it in reference to anything, I think she just sees that Gunnar gets a response from it, so she's trying it out too.

They're so cute and precious, I can't stand it sometimes!


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## wamommy

Omg, "ning" is too cute!! I would just die! :rofl: Gunnar and Lilja are so lucky to have each other. They will never be lonely or bored :D

Sierra, I haven't been sick with Max yet (knock on wood) but have been super sick before with the girls. It's so hard, but as they get older they understand more and want to try to help instead of need me to do things. I hope you aren't sick! :hugs:

Thanks for the responses about caffeine. I drink decaf almost daily, since I was hugely addicted to coffee pre-pregnancy (I'm from Seattle, remember? lol) I read that babies can't process caffeine before 3 months though, and it just builds up in their system. I think it's a high amount like you said, Dragonfly. I drink caffeinated sodas once in a great while, but nothing wakes you up like a big cup of Kona coffee. I miss the zing!


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## SierraJourney

I miss the zing too! Lol. 

Dragon I love updates on your twins- it's so interesting how different they are from one another! 

Thanks Wamommy- so far so good! It's beautiful here- I can't wait to get outside soon for a walk with Camden!


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## SierraJourney

Has anyone ever been on medications to increase milk supply? My doctor is trying this with me right now because we're wondering if Camden's fussiness is from not getting enough milk? (He'll take a bottle after he's nursed for an hour, and he nurses literally every hour). So, Ive started meds for it yesterday. Just wondering if it actually works?


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## wamommy

I tried all of the herbal and natural medicines for increasing milk supply, but none did much for me. I've heard Fenugreek helps a lot of people though. As a last resort my Doctor offered me Reglan, but DH wouldn't allow me to take it. It increases the risk of depression, which I am already prone to. At least I was then. I really hope you have success with medication, Sierra, so that you can have a break! Wouldn't it be great if that was the problem and Camden was suddenly chilled? :D

Completely random: I registered my daughter for Kindergarten today! I'm torn between so proud of my big girl and really sad :cry: Something must be wrong with me! We registered DD#2 for pre-k too, so starting in the fall I'll have mornings with just Max. Maybe my house will actually get clean :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Wamommy! Reglan is what they're having me on. It would be amazing if suddenly Camden was a layed back baby! Wouldn't that just be wonderful?! 

Awww I'd be sad she's growing up so quickly!! But days with just Max sounds wonderful! You won't know what to do with your time! Lol


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## SierraJourney

And the MIL woes continue. . . 

My MIL texted DH and told him she was coming up Monday-Thursday next week. She wants to watch Camden. The problem is, I work all day--from home---so she'll be here all day while I'm trying to work, and Camden nurses every hour right now. . . (and once she holds him, she doesn't like to give him back to me)--so I'll have to fight all day to try to get my fussing son back so I can nurse him. She'll want to give him a bottle, and I don't like to give him a bottle when I'm right here and can nurse him. She doesn't understand that. Also, he's such a particular baby and fussy, that it's SO hard to get him into any sort of routine. . .and slowly but surely I think we're finally getting something down, he and I---but I'm afriad if she's here all day, then it will ruin the progress we've made (ie, she'll want to hold him instead of putting him down for a nap). I talked with DH about this and he just avoids the whole thing. . .but I know she's planning on being here for most of the day with Camden--and I can't have that. So, DH needs to call her and let her know that she can come only in the evenings (or maybe a few hours early when I designate. But Id really DH be here to deal with his mum instead of me). And the kissing. .. blast if she kisse him on the lips again! . .. argh. . .I feel so mean, but the lady really gets on my nerves when it comes to my child---she won't listen to me!! :(


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## Kellen

Dragon - Thank you for the adorable story about "ning" that is so awesome! I can't wait until Teagen begins to try to verbalize specific things. We are also trying to teach her baby sign language so hopefully she'll be able to communicate in two ways.

Sierra - I feel for you about your MIL. That is a tough situation. I agree that you DH needs to step up and tell his mom that she is welcome to visit any time that you are not working. I would be ticked off if someone interrupted our routine.

Today stunk. DH wanted me to go to a class about investing and playing the stock market to learn how to trade stocks and whatnot. This meant that I had to leave Teagen with another mom and her 6 month old. Single hardest thing I have ever done was walk out their front door. I obsessively asked for updates and pumped at every break. It is a three day class, but I don't think I will go tomorrow or the next day. For one I am a horrible classroom learner, two Teagen came home with heat rash. She was also covered in cat hair (yes, we had a cat but I never let her be covered with hair). And she didn't have a nap because the other mom couldn't get her to settle down. Now I am left with an overly tired baby who has a rash. :(

I am dreading next week. Next Monday DH takes the moving truck and drives to Texas from Georgia while I stay overnight with friends and board the plane Tuesday night with Teagen. I finally asked DH what we were going to do about the smoking issue and he said we will get a hotel room (no hesitation on his part which was awesome!). My MIL is ticked because DH told her that anyone who smokes will have to hold Teagen wrapped in a blanket as he doesn't want nicotine transferred from their skin or clothes. I am not looking forward to being there as MIL doesn't agree with or understand my parenting style. 
Like your MIL, Sierra, she wants to give Teagen a bottle. As you said I can't see giving her a bottle when I am right there and available to feed her. When she was here for Teagen's home coming she told me I was selfish for breastfeeding and not letting other people have time to bond with the baby (um... she'd been in the NICU for 6 days and I only got to hold her when she was feeding, excuse me for wanting to be the first to bond with MY baby). She formula fed all her kids and just doesn't understand why I want to exclusively feed Teagen via me.
She also asked me if Teagen had any of the same food allergies that I do because she wanted to get her a cake for the baby shower. :saywhat: She is only 3 months old! She doesn't eat solid food! "Just a taste?" Um, no! We aren't going to introduce any foods to her until she shows interest and no sugar until after a year at the very earliest.
This last part is just picky and I could be completely unreasonable, but I come unglued when she refers to Teagen as: "My baby." I am always thinking, "No, I gave birth to her she is MINE! She is your GRANDdaughter, not your baby." Whenever she says: "Give my baby girl a kiss" I always reply: "I will give your GRANDdaughter a kiss." It just peeves me in ways unfathomable. :shrug: Okay, my rant is all done.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen I'm sorry to hear that Teagen has a rash! My mom always tells me- no one knows how to care for your baby like you do. It's so true! I know we need babysitters but it's so hard knowing that our lo won't be taken care of the way we take care of them!

Next week sounds sooooo rough! I'm super glad your Dh agreed to the hotel room and to tell your mil that they have to hold her wrapped in a blanket. I think those are very wise choices, and kudos for your Dh standing up to his mom!

I hate how the mil always say it's their baby too! So annoying! my mil keeps calling me now. She always called Dh before but now that I've had Camden, she has to call me for updates on him. Wtf? I'll update you when I want to- and you can call your son. I feel like she's using me to get info on the baby instead of really being interested in talking with me. :( I've stopped answering her calls and won't text back. I need to do my own thing without her interfering- plus I'm way too busy to keep her updated all of the time!


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## DragonflyWing

Wow! I totally understand why you're frustrated with your mothers in law, Kellen and Sierra! I would be upset, too. I never understand how people can think breastfeeding is selfish...obviously they have never done it, because let me tell you, it would be a lot easier for me to formula feed, but I want my kids to have the best start possible. I hate that I even have to supplement their milk with formula, and I've fought the doctors on it, but they say it's 100% necessary. I disagree, but I didn't go to medical school, so...

As for other people calling your baby "theirs," I get this ALL THE TIME. My mom, my aunts, even my co-workers say "So how are my babies?" Apparently since I had twins, they belong to everyone :haha: At first it was a little WTF, but now I hardly notice it. Of course they're my babies...nothing anyone can say would change that. People just like to feel included and part of their lives, I think.


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## wamommy

Oh Kellen and Sierra, how tough! I don't envy your situation! I'm pretty non-confrontational, so I think I'd have a really hard time telling a MIL how I felt. Hopefully as time goes on they will recognize that you are amazing mommies, and not try to intervene so much! Until then, hang in there :)

As for breastfeeding, I think it's one of the most unselfish things you can do! I know how hard it is and how much time it consumes. Believe me, I would do it if I could!! I feel like a jerk every time I make a bottle, but in my case it would be selfish to continue to try to exclusively breastfeed, since it's more about my issues (guilt, feelings of failure) than what's best for Max. To mommies who breast feed or pump, I salute you! I'm almost to the 3-month goal I set for myself for providing 10oz a day, and I'm trying to decide if I should go to all formula or continue to give Max 10 oz of breast milk a day. Do you think there are even any benefits to that little?

Sorry, random tangent! I'm off to the zoo :D


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## DragonflyWing

I think there are benefits to any amount of breastmilk you can provide...I think even 1 oz would be better than nothing! 10 oz is great, that's probably more than a third of his intake! 

I had a dream last night that I was pregnant again! I kept trying to find more tests to take, because I didn't believe it!


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## wamommy

Premonition? :winkwink: Wouldn't that be something!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies. I'm non-confrontational, too--which is why I tend to just avoid and not answer calls! ;)

wamommy---I agree with Dragon---I think there are a lot of benefits from 10 oz a day--that's terrific! And the zoo sounds SO fun! Maybe DH will take us to the zoo this summer--I'll have to bug him about it! :) 

Dragon---that's an awesome dream--maybe wamommy is right and it's a premonition! You'd really have your hands full with a THIRD baby on the way! 

I had a dream last night that Camden was 14 years old and in a huge swaddle! :rofl: Hopefully he'll grow out of swaddling by then!! :lol:


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## SierraJourney

I forgot to tell everyone--today was Camden's first day of physical therapy! He is having trouble turning his head to the left (they say because of womb position), and in turn is getting a *slight* flat spot on the right side of his head. He will have therapy twice a week for 6 weeks. He did fabulously and they said his case is very mild-- thank goodness! I have to do exercises with him at home, too. It's all very interesting and I hope it keeps him from having to wear a helmet when he's older (which they said it most likely will not get that bad). Anyone else experience this?


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## Kellen

Sierra - I haven't had anything like that happen with Teagen, but actually had it done to me when I was an infant. I got stuck on the way out and ended up with a severe case of torticollis so my mom had to take me to PT. I never had to wear a helmet. So I suspect with Camden responding positively to the PT that he will be fine. My neck problems resulted from three things 1) being stuck for 20 hours before my mom had an emergency C-section, 2) an elongated vertebrae in my neck and 3) a cervical rib that wasn't discovered until my 20s during a neck x-ray. So I am positive that Camden will do awesome!

Teagen is recovering from her big day away yesterday. The rash on her face is all gone and she slept for 13 hours (with a feed at 7am). Her normal schedule is all wonky today, but I care less about the clock than I do the routine that we normally follow so as long as everything seems normal to her she doesn't care about the time. DH mailed off the extra carseat to my parents so that they can have it installed for when we arrive on the 4th (10 days!). The house is almost completely packed up.

Wamommy - I am very non-confrontational as well. Hence I choose to bring up touchy subjects with DH when I know he is in a positive frame of mind, especially if they have to do with my MIL. He is very protective of his mom (is cool up to a point). So for him to tell her we are getting a hotel and she can only hold the baby in a blanket is HUGE!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! That's great to hear!

Wow--you sure do have a lot to think about---I wouldnt' have even thought to mail a carseat! My hat's off to you and your organizational skills! 

So glad to hear that Teagen is doing a bit better. . .poor girl!


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## Kellen

*Takes a bow* Thank you! I would kind of hope my organizational and planning skills are semi-okay given that my previous job was as a government planner and I was in charge of a state program. :) But since DH will still be driving the moving truck with our car in tow I didn't want to have to check the car seat with my baggage at the airport. I don't trust them not to damage it in someway. Our church got us an extra car seat and we hadn't unboxed it yet so I figured we might as well mail it ahead of us so that there is one waiting. Our current moving itinerary looks like this: 

4/28: Pick up moving truck. Load moving truck.
4/29: DH sleeps all day while I finish up a few errands around town. DH drops Teagen and I off at friend's house. He drives to Texas.
4/30: Friend takes Teagen and I to the airport that evening. DH arrives in our car and picks us up.
5/01: I try not to kill my in-laws.
5/02: I use Teagen as an excuse to nap and escape from people.
5/03: Drive 2 hours away to see DH's friends and my oldest nephew.
5/04: Fly to Oregon and happily reunite with my parents and grandma. DH leaves for Arizona to visit friends.
5/05: My dad flies down to Arizona to meet DH and drive up to Oregon.

After that who knows?

Now Teagen is taking another nap in her swing. Poor baby was apparently more stressed than I realized. Her babysitter yesterday said that she refused to nap. I guess she is making up for it today.


----------



## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Kellen! You are SO busy!! Make sure you definitely escape and get some rest!! WOW!!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I wouldn't worry too much about the flat spot. My second daughter had a dramatic flat spot on the back of her head and I thought she would need a helmet. I asked my pediatrician and he said to wait and see what happens, since the helmets are a TON of money. Luckily, by a year old her head was perfectly round :D If I think about it, you don't see a bunch of older kids running around with flat spots, so maybe the body is pretty good at correcting it? Either way, I'm SO glad Camden is responding well to therapy and turning his head :)

Kellen, wow...that is some schedule!! How exciting! It's almost 70 degrees in Washington today, so you're arriving just at the right time. The winters here can make me a bit blue, but it's SO worth the gorgeous spring and summer. 

OK, I'm really leaving now! DH slept until *10* this morning, so we're just now heading out.


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## Kellen

Have fun at the zoo! Why do men take so much longer to get ready that women? It seriously takes my DH more time to do his hair than it takes me to do mine...

So excited to be back in the Pacific Northwest. My mom said it is 71 there today. I cannot wait to do some of the awesome outside things with Teagen. Crater Lake is only 2 hours away and with the Ergo baby carrier I am going to convince DH to do some hiking with me this summer... maybe even some tent camping since co-sleeping with Teagen isn't a problem.


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## mrsswaffer

Wah! Hands up who has got MIL woes! *hands up*

I love her dearly, but she is SO interfering! All weekend, she was jabbing at me about my parenting skills. She was asking questions, and - after my answer - would say, "How times have changed! We did it like this... etc." and when I'd back my reasons up with evidence or books, she'd say, "Well, we never had books and my boys turned out okay!" Argh!!!

She also seems to think that, at 10 weeks old, Harrison is getting 'crafty' and manipulative. I tried to tell her that, actually, babies at his age don't have the capacity to know how to be crafty, and that he is just expressing his preferences, but no. She doesn't have any of it. Growl!


----------



## Kellen

Ah! :rofl: A crafty 10 week old? Really? Stick to your guns. I swear when Teagen has a child I am going to reread all of these posts so that I ca remind myself to back off and let her be the mom.

The, "well I did it this way and he turned out fine" drives me batty. Just because you smoked around your kids and gave them sips of beer to make them sleep doesn't mean that it is okay.


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## SierraJourney

Haha--these MIL stories are the best---it makes me feel good knowing I'm not the only one who finds their interferring completely annoying!! :rofl:


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy said:


> Premonition? :winkwink: Wouldn't that be something!




SierraJourney said:


> Dragon---that's an awesome dream--maybe wamommy is right and it's a premonition! You'd really have your hands full with a THIRD baby on the way!

Oh my gosh, you guys are going to give me a coronary! :haha: NO I would rather not have 3 under two! :wacko:

I told DH about the dream and laughed that it would be impossible to be pregnant now, and he was like "Yep, unless it was an immaculate conception...speaking of, are we ever going to have sex again?" :rofl:

Probably someday.


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## wamommy

We're home!

Ohh, babies can be VERY crafty!! In fact, just a few minutes ago Max pooped JUST TO MAKE ME CHANGE HIM... :rofl: 

Dragonfly, I'm with you. If I were pregnant now I would completely freak out! We have only dtd once since Max was born. I'm just not that into it right now. Maybe if DH helped out more I would be? As it is I am pretty resentful all of the time and dtd is the last thing on my mind! :dohh:

My Mom does some of the "we did such-and-such when you were young, and you turned out fine!" stuff. She used to wipe whiskey on our gums to help with teething :wacko: She was an amazing Mom, but times really have changes, and for the better I think!

The zoo was fun. It's SO nice here today (finally) that anything outside would have been great. We only made it halfway through the zoo before my 3-year-old got tired out and wanted to go home. We're at home for a snack and to feed and change Max before we head back out to the park. It's such a luxury having a sunny day that I don't want to waste it!


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## Jo_Bean

My MIL is the same. Just yesterday I was giving her a loft to her Wednesday night girls get together and she said "shall I drive and you hold Olivia in the car to save putting her in and out of her car seat?" 
Hubby and I both said "um, that's illegal!"
She looked like we had attacked her personally and said "how ridiculous, we used to stick you in a basket on the back seat"

It did make me wonder if the older generations get all defensive like that because they feel like their choices are being attacked and we are saying they were crap mothers? :shrug:

I'm not saying she doesn't bug the hell out of me with her comments and that she should learn to keep her mouth shut sometimes :haha: but when you think about it, they were us once. They were told to do the things they did and now we are telling them that everything they did was wrong! 

I bet anything we will be exactly the same in 20-30 years when our children have children!


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## SierraJourney

Oh phew so I'm not the only one who hasn't DTD much? Dh has been more reluctant to do it then I have. We've done it once... and even though I'd like to do it more, we are just way too exhausted!


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## mrsswaffer

We have only DTD twice since Harry was born. Basically just because we're so tired! :p

I really hope I don't turn into my MIL when Harry has babies! :wacko: I'm just going to agree with my daughter-in-law and give advice when it seems appropriate, instead of commenting on everything she does!

It really did get too much on the weekend, and I ended up crying to DH about it. I didn't want to talk to him about it, because he is a mummy's boy and I thought he'd think I was attacking her. However, it did really upset me, so I talked to him about it and he said he's going to talk to her. Eep!


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## helena

Mrswaffer, I kind of agree wi MiL and think babies start to learn how to manipulate us very early on. It isn't done maliciously obviously but I do believe they do things just to get what they want. Not necessarily what they need. Kiara doesn't need to be held all day. Bt she would love to be and likes to let me know it :) and I am convinced she know how to stss me so I come running even when I know she is absolutely fine...monkey :)

Both K and I sick today :( big yucky cold. Awful.she has sad red watery eyes :(
We havent dtd at all!...have been too stressed, depressed or just knackered! :)


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## SierraJourney

Helena, I'm sick now too. :( do you know if we can take anything for colds while breastfeeding? Also, what do you do for babies when they are sick? Camden doesn't have it yet but I am so paranoid he will get it!


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## mrsswaffer

I'm joining the cold club! I feel rotten today. :( We can take paracetamol.

He shouldn't get the cold because the antibodies to fight it are passed to him in your milk. If he does get it, it won't be as bad as how you have it. :)


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## helena

Kiara managed to get it. I do still breastfeed her 60 or 70%. She is miserable.
I got a nasal spray the doctor suggested and I use saline locution to squirt up each nostril to loosen things. I then suck it out with a nasl vacuum thingy. She screams but it works. We also use a humidifier in her room at night. 
Mostly its just treatment by as much milk as she can handle and so many cuddles I feel like we have been physically attached for days (we co slept last night too, she sleeps so much better that way).

She is due her second dTap vaccine tomorrow .will see if the doc thinks it is a good idea or not.

Lovely and sunny today, K has a dress and bare legs :) sooo cute :)

Get well soon girls xx


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## Kellen

Hugs to all the sick mommies and congested babies. I am praying that neither Teagen or I catch a bug on the plane next week. Get well, all.


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## helena

Jo_Bean said:


> My MIL is the same. Just yesterday I was giving her a loft to her Wednesday night girls get together and she said "shall I drive and you hold Olivia in the car to save putting her in and out of her car seat?"
> Hubby and I both said "um, that's illegal!"
> She looked like we had attacked her personally and said "how ridiculous, we used to stick you in a basket on the back seat"
> 
> It did make me wonder if the older generations get all defensive like that because they feel like their choices are being attacked and we are saying they were crap mothers? :shrug:
> 
> I'm not saying she doesn't bug the hell out of me with her comments and that she should learn to keep her mouth shut sometimes :haha: but when you think about it, they were us once. They were told to do the things they did and now we are telling them that everything they did was wrong!
> 
> I bet anything we will be exactly the same in 20-30 years when our children have children!

I think you are right Jo. It's like we are saying WE know best. Ultimately I think there is so much advice out there its a bit much...babies need common sense. After all, we did all turn it ok. 
But to hold a baby on your lap in the car!..lol


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## helena

Kellen said:


> Hugs to all the sick mommies and congested babies. I am praying that neither Teagen or I catch a bug on the plane next week. Get well, all.

I am praying we are well by next week! When do you fly? We fly next Saturday morning.


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## Kellen

We fly Tuesday night and then again on Saturday. We have one layover on Tuesday, but we don't change planes. The Saturday flight will be longer with a 90 minute layover and plane change.


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## wamommy

Get better, everyone! :hugs:


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## Kellen

Good Weekend, Everyone! I hope that everyone and their LO's are beginning to feel better. Life has been crazy around here as we frantically pack or throw out our belongings. Poor Teagen developed a nasty case of diaper rash that is quickly clearing up with liberal doses of desitin and frequent changes.

The carpet cleaners came yesterday and now the house smells awesome. Today my big project is to clear out and clean the kitchen. Tomorrow after church we are picking up the truck. Anything that we don't need is getting carted off to Goodwill. I managed to sell our washer and dryer last night. So now all we have left is 1 recliner. Hopefully someone will call and buy it today or tomorrow.

I packed our pots and pans so we will be living off take out for the next two days since I don't want to dirty the stove that I just cleaned. DH is excited that today is his last day at his current store. I am excited because I get my motorcycle back today. DH killed my battery while I was pregnant so the poor gal had to go spend a week at the shop. At least she'll be ready to hit the road once we reach Oregon.

DH is going to make his mom mad. I arrive late Tuesday night. Wednesday we have no plans. Thursday we travel 90 minutes south to visit friends and my nephew. Then on Friday we head north and visit different friends. He hasn't gotten the nerve to tell my MIL that she only gets one full day with Teagen because we fly out early on Saturday. I know my stress level has gone way down because it means we won't have to be around smokers. BIG sigh of relief.


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## helena

That sounds like t will be hectic but a lot of fun. Ad good news on the reduced time with MiL...hoping she doesn't take the news too badly! I know mine would cry and make me feel bad...
However, when I go to the uk next weekend I am not even going to see my inlaws. They got two weeks of baby time when K was born and my family haven't even seen her yet so even though the inlaws are only 30 minutes away next weekend I shan't be visiting them...they know this and haven't dared say nothing yet...and if they try dn turn up at my parents, with my mum recovering from her cancer treatment, I will blow my top!...I don't think they would dare, but then again...

Both K and I feeling better from our colds today, but she is feeling a little delicate after her vaccine yesterday :( but I am so glad she is covered for whooping cough before we travel. Just the uk measles outbreak to worry about now...


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## Jo_Bean

It seems to be mostly in Wales at the moment, where in the UK are your parents?


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone. Hope you and your beautiful bundles are ok xx


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## helena

They are in Suffolk Jo, but I am just wary of the airport and train from Gatwick to central London...hopefully the Welsh will be sticking to Cardiff airport!..


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## helena

Forgot to say, Kiara at her 3 month checkup was 57cm and 5.4 kilos (12 pounds) :)
So pleased with her weight gain since she was only 2.5 when we left hospital. She was so upset yesterday, the day after the second dTap vaccine :( cried and screamed from z7pm until 11 with just a half hour pause :(

Hope you are all having a good weekend. We went to a big play center for our boys today. They were happy and there was a mini disco bit - Kiara loved the lights! I feel uh safer out and about now she is covered fr whooping cough. Usually the second jab is at 4 months but they brought it forward because of the outbreak.


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## Jo_Bean

That's true. Take a load of anti bacterial hand wash and don't let anyone touch her!!!


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## wamommy

Oh Helena, I hope Kiara feels better soon!! :hugs:

Kellen, good luck with the trip! It sounds like a lot of fun, especially now that you've made plans away from MIL for a while :haha:

Hi Midnight!! Thanks for the well-wishes! How's Jade?

I'm struggling with a fussy baby today! It's ok though, because yesterday he started laughing, and today he was into a full-on chuckle! He sounds like a little old man... "huh, huh, huh, huh." It's the cutest thing ever:cloud9:


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## helena

Oh wamommy I bet that makes up for the lack of sleep. A bit ;) well done max! :)
I am loving the smiles and mini giggles we get. My first baby didnt giggle until 5 months so we are lucky this time! It cheers me up so much when she smiles. Even if I am deeply down about my mum or being driven mad by a stroppy 5 year old (who can tantrum more than anyone I know) one baby smile and I am ok again :)


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## Midnight_Fairy

wamommy said:


> Oh Helena, I hope Kiara feels better soon!! :hugs:
> 
> Kellen, good luck with the trip! It sounds like a lot of fun, especially now that you've made plans away from MIL for a while :haha:
> 
> Hi Midnight!! Thanks for the well-wishes! How's Jade?
> 
> I'm struggling with a fussy baby today! It's ok though, because yesterday he started laughing, and today he was into a full-on chuckle! He sounds like a little old man... "huh, huh, huh, huh." It's the cutest thing ever:cloud9:

She is doing great, Thank you :) I love baby laughs. Jade shocks herself when she makes a new sound!


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## DragonflyWing

What a weekend we had!

Saturday was great...DH had to take his grandpa to his neighbor's birthday party, so I had the babies for the day. It was wonderful to be alone with them all day, I almost never get to spend that much time with them with work and everything. They were in great moods, I got loads of smiles and coos, and even a little giggle out of Gunnar.

Sunday started out kind of bad...I woke up at 4am with what felt like a stomach virus. I felt awful, but it seemed to go away within a couple hours. It may have been food poisoning...DH got me a sub sandwich and it sat out on the table for a few hours before I got the time to eat it. Anyway, since I had lost a few hours of sleep, I slept really late Sunday morning and was rushing to get the babies bathed before I went grocery shopping. When I got home, DH and I had a fight and everything went downhill.

It was so stupid. Gunnar had been spitting up and DH changed his clothes, then he spit up again and DH started to get really impatient and annoyed. Instead of lifting him upright and giving him a chance to digest a little, DH just kept laying him down to try to get him dressed, which made Gunnar spit up more, which made DH super pissed and he was swearing and saying "what's WRONG with you? stop barfing!" As if Gunnar was deliberately trying to inconvenience him. :growlmad: I would have taken over to give DH time to cool off, but Lily was very fussy and wouldn't go down for the night. I was nursing her and trying to get her to sleep, and I was getting more and more annoyed at DH but not saying anything. I knew he was short on patience so I just let it go.

He finally got Gunnar cleaned up and into bed, and then went into the kitchen to make himself something to eat. I was sitting there rocking Lily in the rocking chair, and he leans out of the kitchen and starts reading me the riot act for leaving a bottle on the counter with a little milk still in it. "You always do this...you can't leave milk in the bottles, it dries out and then it's really hard to clean." It sounded like he was trying to pick a fight, which he never does. Now, I always make a point of rinsing out the bottles after using them, and I didn't remember leaving any out, so I said, very non-confrontationally "I'm not sure what you mean, I don't remember leaving any milk in a bottle." I was just about to say sorry, I might have missed one, but before I could go any further he made this disgusted noise and said "Stop, don't start getting defensive. I don't know why you always think I'm criticizing you when I ask you to change your behavior..." I was mystified, because I wasn't defensive at all, and I tried to explain that I truly didn't remember leaving milk in a bottle, but that I certainly could have missed one. Then he walked over to where I was sitting and picked up the bottle I had JUST put down on the floor after trying to get Lily to eat a little and said really sarcastically "I suppose you didn't put this one there either, huh?" and stormed into the kitchen. I said "You don't have to be sarcastic, we can have a civil discussion," after which he just started spouting more nonsense about me getting defensive and "making excuses." I was already up 1.5 hours after I should have been in bed (I had to get up early this morning) because Lily wouldn't settle, and I just couldn't stand fighting anymore and said "Whatever. Just stop talking to me." He made another disgusted noise and didn't speak to me for the rest of the night. I was so upset that I cried for hours and didn't get to sleep until 3:30am. I kept trying to get him to talk to me but he just ignored me or gave me one word answers. I was completely miserable and even started thinking that maybe he and the babies would be better off if I were dead. 

I got about 3 hours of sleep and I feel like shit today. I keep tearing up and just feel seriously depressed. I said goodbye to DH this morning and he was still sleeping and said "have a good day," so I don't think he's mad at me, but I just feel terrible. I don't know what he wanted me to say, and I don't know why he can't have an argument without resorting to sarcasm, disgust, and all those "you never" and "you always" comments. I hate fighting, and I never know how to fix it.

:cry:


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry, Dragonfly! That sounds so tough :( :hugs: :hugs: Have you had a chance to talk to your DH today? I always say that anger is a secondary emotion, so if he's lashing out at you in anger it's probably because something else is going on. Maybe getting to the bottom of it will help? I'm not sure, but I felt so sad picturing you sitting there crying, thinking they would be better off without you! I'm sure if you told DH that it may put things in perspective for him, and a dirty bottle really wouldn't matter so much. You're a GREAT Mom, and probably just stressed and tired to the max. I don't think you deserved to be talked to like that, and I'm so sorry :( I hope things get better!


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks wamommy :hugs:

I texted him this afternoon "Do you still love me?" (I know that sounds pathetic, but I seriously felt like maybe he didn't, I've felt so awful all day)

And he texted me back "No, I don't 'still' love you."

I burst into tears and then I got another text...

"I 'energetically, dynamically, thoroughly, vivaciously, consumingly, ecstatically' love you."

:)

I immediately called him and told him never to scare me like that again lol. For a minute there my world ended.

I think we need to have a serious talk, because I still feel really miserable, although my stomach isn't tied up in knots anymore now that I know he's not mad at me. Something's wrong when we have a fight and I start feeling like maybe I shouldn't be alive :(


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## helena

Oh dragon...Having a baby is tough, having two so mucH moRe so I am suRe...I bet he was just tired, bored and annoyed. We all lash out sometImes...and lack of sleep will account for how you feel. I get so teary when I haven't slept. It's impossible to keep emotions stable when we are so deeply tired. And that tiredness rarely happens with babies does it..
My husband does the "you always" thing too, even iF I haven't done whatever it is he is talking about in ages. Very annoying. I guess it is just the teenager in them complaining. He might as well just complain "it's not faaaair" like a grumpy surly teenager.

Don't over analyze? I bet you are both just super tired x x x x x


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so glad your DH came around! What a nice text (well, the second one :winkwink:).

I'm having a paranoid freak out tonight... I get my thyroid levels tested every 6 months or so, but more during pregnancy. It's normal for them to fluctuate while pregnant and they just adjust my medicine accordingly. I didn't think much of it when my level came back off and they lowered my does last month. I was supposed to go back in 30 days and recheck. I went back last week and my TSH is almost GONE... meaning my thyroid levels are too high in my body, causing the pituitary gland to stop asking for more. This makes NO SENSE. I don't have a thyroid... my dosage of medicine is lower than it's EVER been in 20 years... so where is this hormone coming from?? I'm kind of freaking out. I had to go back in today for more blood tests to figure it all out. They're testing all of the different components of thyroid function, so I should know more tomorrow or Thursday. Hopefully it's a lab error or something... I'll keep you posted, but please keep me in your thoughts!


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## Jo_Bean

Thinking of you Wamommy. Hopefully it was an error and all they have to do is apologise x


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, I'm so glad Dh sent you such a nice text after how you were feeling! I hope you both can figure things out so you never feel like that again.

Wamommy, I am praying! How very scary! Keep us updated!


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## helena

Thinking of you wamommy, surely it must be an error? Let us know xx


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## mrsswaffer

<3 I hope your tests come back normal for you, hun.


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## wamommy

No phone call today! :( I was really hoping to hear back today, but it looks like I'll have to wait until tomorrow. 

Thank you for the well wishes, and I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I hear.


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## helena

Preparing to fly to uk tomorrow. Who decided a 7am flight was a good idea!?
Am sure it will be a bit sad and emotional with mum, but can't wait for my family to meet Kiara and I as much as I adore my boys I am looking forward to some mummy and baby time without having to worry about the boys and new baby jealousy issues (son no 2 is still very unsure baby is a good idea..), although th fact baby gets to come with mummy will no doubt cause some issues in itself...

Love your new pic Jo!

Hope you hear back today wamommy x


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## wamommy

Good luck with the flight, Helena. I hope you have a great trip! I'm sure everyone will be so happy to meet Kiara :D

I still haven't heard back from the Doctor, and it's been 72 hours! :growlmad: I'm going to call today at 3pm if I still haven't heard.


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## helena

It can't be anything bad and urgent then I say, or they would be calling. It will be an admin issue xxx


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## SierraJourney

Have a wonderful trip Helena! So excited you're finally going!

Wamommy I agree with Helena-but still so frustrating! :hugs:


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## wamommy

You guys are probably right! It seems like they'd call me right away if the numbers were off. :flower:


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## wamommy

I called and finally talked to a nurse, who gave me my lab results. I'm even more confused... My other thyroid levels were in the normal range, which is *great*. The issue now becomes why my TSH is so low. TSH is made by the pituitary, not the thyroid, so it's weird that my thyroid levels in the blood are normal but the pituitary is saying that there is too much? I'm going to ask a family friend, who is a Doctor, to refer me to a good endocrinologist. So the good: It's very unlikely that my thyroid cancer has returned, because severe hyperthyroidism was my first sign last time. The bad: Something's still funky with my levels, and it's going to take an expert (not an ob) to interpret them.

On a much lighter note: My 5-year-old was sitting with Max and they were cooing at each other. DD jumped up and announced, "He said his first word!! Max is talking!! He said RACOON!!" She was so excited, it made me smile :D I can't wait until he can really talk. The girls will enjoy him so much more then! 

How is everyone else doing?


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## Jo_Bean

:rofl: racoon!!

So glad that you have had good news, lets hope that there's more to come too xx


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## SierraJourney

Thanks for updating us Wamommy! So glad for the news! Hopefully they will figure it all out soon! 

Love the raccoon bit! 

Mil is coming over tomorrow and Tuesday- so wish me luck ladies!! Lol. I gave her strict hours to adhere to, so hopefully it won't be too bad! Andddd she's offered to take Camden and I clothes shopping for him on Tuesday, so I'm excited about that. :).


----------



## Kellen

Hello Everyone!

Teagen and I finally made it to Oregon. She did awesome on all the plane rides and completely charmed all the fly attendants. She only cried once during take off and never during the actual flight. I was so relieved!

So... we didn't get a motel because DH didn't want to hurt his mom's feelings. The house stank of stale cigarettes, but thankfully we were out and about visiting friends for the majority of the time. MIL had told DH that they had stopped smoking in the house, but I found a partially smoked cigarette in an ashtray in my MIL office. Pretty sure that is the last straw for me and we will never be staying in the house again. I immediately washed all of Teagen and I's clothes when we got to our new home.

Right now Teagen is crashed on our bed. Tomorrow my grandma is taking us crib shopping (as we never had a crib in Georgia, but used the Pack'n'Play). I am pretty excited! Also my sister and her family will be visiting next week and we will be getting us a highchair. Does anyone have any suggestions for highchairs? It isn't something I've researched yet...

Teagen's internal clock is all messed up. Last night she went to bed at 7pm, which was 10pm Georgia time. Tonight she laid down at 7 as well and was soundly asleep by 7:30. I'm actually okay with this as it gave me time to finish laundry and put all our clothes away. In Georgia we were doing bedtime at 8 or 9, but I like 7. She did try to get up at 4am this morning since she apparently thought it should be 7am. I managed to nurse her back to sleep until 6:30.

Helena - I hope that you and Miss Kiara had a safe flight.

Wamommy - I pray that your doctors are able to figure everything out.

Dragon - I too hate fighting with DH. Mine is super passive aggressive when he argues so I always end up feeling guilty... even if it isn't my fault! We have spoken about it though and he is trying to be better. I pray that everything resolves itself.

Sierra - My mom took Teagen and I clothes shopping today. However, she did make me buy myself a pair of non-maternity jeans :rofl: It actually felt good to be wearing normal pants again. But Teagen has some super cute stuff now that is all maritime themed, which is cool since I sail and DH is a merchant marine.


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## SierraJourney

Congrats on the normal jeans Kellen! :haha: and on the safe flight! ;).


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## wamommy

Sierra, have fun clothes shopping! How fun! Hopefully it will be a nice time with your MIL and the neutral ground will make it fun for you both.

Kellen, welcome to the Pacific Northwest!! I'm so glad the plane ride went well (yay Teagen!) Congrats on real jeans too. I finally started wearing a pair of my old jeans (my "fat" jeans, but still) and it feels nice. It did take me a while to get used to unbuttoning and zipping to go to the bathroom, though. I had become way too used to the comfy maternity band. :dohh:

As far as high chairs go, I'm clueless. We didn't use one. Out casual dining table is one of those high ones, and all of our chairs are high that go with it. We couldn't find a high chair that was high enough to bring DD#1 up to table level, so we bought a chair that clamps on to the table. We just put a mat down for her to eat on. By the time DD#2 came around we passed the chair down to her and paid to have a huge piece of clear plastic fitted to our table. Now the kids can bang, smash, stab, color, spill, etc and it doesn't hurt the table. I think Max will be getting the same chair, because despite 4 plus years of use it's still in great shape! 

Helena, I hope your trip is going well and that you're getting some really quality time with your Mom.

Dragon, how are things with DH?

Jo, I love the new avatar!

It's supposed to be over 80 degrees today, so I'm off to get some yard work done. :dance:


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## SierraJourney

Oh ladies---how the heck do you get over this MIL stuff? I know babies are resilient and everyone has their different ways of dealing with babies--but for some reason, my brain and heart HATES it when MIL has lo. . .and I find everything that she does annoying. Like when he was crying, she said: "Camden, you're hurting my ears!" I know she was just talking to him, but still----he's CRYING. . it's not about YOU, it's about HIM! Then, when he's crying, she talks to him louder and louder until she's almost yelling at him (and DH and I always talk to him in calm voices). I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so I know I can't correct everything she does, but it just stresses me out, though! Then, when I can't take him crying and crying, I suggest that he needs to eat. So, I take him, and she goes, "Well don't you have a bottle?" Yes, I have a bottle, but no I don't give him a bottle when I am RIGHT HERE to feed him. We go through this EVERY time. :( It's so frustrating and I get so worked up about it each time she's over. I know that everyone feels like this with their MIL's, but dang. .. I don't know how I can deal with this for years and years and years. And, I honestly thing the biggest hinderance here is my emotions on this---if I could just be more laid-back about things, I would be fine. . .but instead, I'm all tensed up and boiling my blood! :(


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## Jo_Bean

Sierra - firstly, it will get easier :hugs: 
Secondly, why not just pick one thing that really annoys you and stand up to her about it, kind of pick your battle? A small victory might make the other things seem less big x


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## DragonflyWing

Things are fine with DH, thank you for asking :). I've been feeling very depressed, so my doctor is looking into antidepressants that are safe for breastfeeding. She told me last Tuesday that she would do some research and call me in a day or two with suggestions, but I still haven't gotten a call from her. I tried calling on Friday, but she wasn't in the office. It really bugs me when people say they will call and then don't. If you don't plan on calling me in a day or two, then just tell the truth and tell me you'll call me when you have more info. And if you DO commit to a timeframe, stick to it! Sheesh.

I thought she'd call me pretty quick, because she had me fill out a postpartum depression screening questionnaire, and I checked that I sometimes think of harming myself. I didn't want to talk about it with DH and the babies + two nurses in the room, so I just left the questionnaire when we left. I thought that would give her some incentive to do her research a little quicker than a WEEK.


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm really surprised the Doctor didn't call you right away after reading the questionnaire! I would think that answering "yes" to that last question would put you at the top of the list of priorities. I hope they call you tomorrow (or that you call them and they answer!) and they get you squared away with some medication. I understand not wanted to talk about it with DH in the room. With DD#1 DH was in the room at my 6-week check-up where I told the Doctor I was struggling with feeling depressed. The doctor asked if I would like to start a medication, and DH said, "she's fine. She doesn't need medication for something in her HEAD." Ya, so... I never mentioned feeling depressed or anxious to DH again. He thinks it's weakness. I, personally, think asking for help shows how strong you are, and how amazing of a mother you are!! You will be so much happier, which will benefit the twins and your DH more than anything else could.

Sierra, I'm so sorry it's still so difficult with your MIL. I agree with Jo that maybe choosing one thing and winning that battle may help you feel better. It sounds like she means well, but is just kind of clueless about how things affect you. Maybe if she knew it was causing so much stress she would stop. Either way, I hope it gets better. :hugs:


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## helena

I highly recommend the ikea basic high chair with tray. The easiest to clean, transport, cheap and cheerful. Really practical. I love ours. Big complicated ones can be awkward to clean. this is easy. 
Cheap enough to be able to get a spare for baby friends too :)https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/40157918/


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## helena

I highly recommend the ikea basic high chair with tray. The easiest to clean, transport, cheap and cheerful. Really practical. I love ours. Big complicated ones can be awkward to clean. this is easy. 
Cheap enough to be able to get a spare for baby friends too :)https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/40157918/


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## helena

I highly recommend the ikea basic high chair with tray. The easiest to clean, transport, cheap and cheerful. Really practical. I love ours. Big complicated ones can be awkward to clean. this is easy. 
Cheap enough to be able to get a spare for baby friends too :)https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/40157918/


Dragon, sorry you are having a tough time. Hopping that doc calls back soon. Just don't do anything drastic.,talk to us first xxxx

Kiara did great on the flight to London. But screamed most of the way back! Lol. I think she was just so tired. And she does seem to be developing a very strong tantrum...

Seeing mum was tough, she seemed so unwell. Perhaps worse than I thought in many ways. Dad cried, that was hard. Hopefully we will go back next month too. It's heart breaking. But K made everyone smile with her grins. 

Kellen, maybe they are trying? Your smoking inlaws? I don't know, half a cigarette sounds ok to me.

Sierra, MILs are tough going....I don't want to create issues between DH and his mum when I know how suddenly life can change....but it is hard! I keep as much distance between me and in the inlaws as I can get without being too rude...


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## helena

Ps Sierra, it do get easier. 4 years after my first was born I still get that blood boil, but I have learnt to avoid them better!....lol. I send weekly photos of the kids which gets me points, but often I am absent from Skype calls....


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies- one more day of her, then I should be good for another month! I was so proud of Dh yesterday! We had been on a long walk together then mil wanted us to go home and let her walk alone with Camden. I squeezed dhs hand to tell him I didnt want to and he told his mom no. She kept pushing but he stood up to her and I was so proud! He agrees that she is a pushy woman. He told me to stand up to her and speak my mind because it's MY baby! I feel so relieved that he said that!

Dragon, please do call your doctor today- its so important! And talk to us when you need to we're here to listen!


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## DragonflyWing

Don't worry ladies, I'm not planning on actually hurting myself...I could never do that to my family. It's just that it's very concerning to me that I even THINK about it. I will call the doctor this afternoon if she doesn't call be by then.


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry your Mom is so unwell :( I'm sure it was amazing for her to meet Kiara, though, and I'm glad you both made it home safely. 

Sierra, hurray for DH! I'm glad he's so supportive. :D

Dragonfly, did you talk to the Dr? I've been thinking of you :hugs:


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## helena

Thanks wamommy. ((Hug))
How's your sleep going?

I think we have a growth spurt here. k has extra crying and extra feeding going on.
She used to feed at 10pm then 3am then 6ish. She is squeezing in an extra small feed at 1 am now.. And during the day it's every three hours at latest, sometimes two. She is now only having two feeds from me a day. But I am trying to not feel bad. What with all that has been going on maybe my milk just wasnt enough for her. She is happy with a bottle except first thing she likes a snoozy snuggle and boobie feed, and one other during the evening too. 

And wow she is growing, and learning - she now grabs at toys and takes things to chew on. And she has started drooling - teething time!? And she has a favourite toy that she is forever smiling at or "talking" to. So cute.

Hope you are all doing well xxx


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## SierraJourney

Helena how cool that Kiara is grabbing at toys and chewing on things! I can't wait for Camden to start doing that! Was it all of a sudden one day she could grab at things? Camden clutches at my shirt when he's nursing and bats at my face when I'm talking to him but doesn't seem interested in grabbing toys. He did grab his foot the other day when I was holding him in a sitting position but that's it. And oh is he drooling too!!! We were at the mall yesterday and it was stringing onto the floor while I carried him!! And he loves to blow bubbles with it! Haha


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## helena

Ah yes we have lots of bubbles! Ha!

Yes I think it was within a week she started grabbing. One day I thought "did she wave her hand at tht toy?" When she was on her baby gym / arch thing. And a week on she saw her doll hanging in front of her and grabbed straight out and took her hat in two hands, one each side of Dolly's head. Things do seem to happen fast, like they have a sudden download! While we were at my parents we didnt have much baby equipment and she was happiest sitting in her car seat if no one was holding her. I hung toys off the seat handle. so I guess she spent time sittibng there practicing grabbing. Clever girly :)


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## DragonflyWing

yay for milestones! I love that the twins are starting to grab things and reach for toys. we're having lots of drooling and chewing on hands, so I guess teething is starting!

the doctor finally got back to me and offered to prescribe Prozac, but I decided to be referred to a psychiatrist. I just don't think my gp has much experience with antidepressants, and I'd prefer to ser a specialist. unfortunately the waiting list is suo long to see a psychiatrist that it will be up to 2 weeks before they call me, and who knows how long before I can get an appointment. 

I may try one of the other medical groups in the area. I really don't want to wait weeks and weeks to be seen.


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## Kellen

Dragon - I am sorry you are experiencing this, but I am glad that you are actively seeking help. I pray that someone calls you sooner rather than later, and that they can get you in to be seen immediately. Hopefully they will understand the recognize the importance of this situation.

Congrats to all the little hand chewers and toy grabbers!

Teagen has three little while teeth buds that are visible. Some days they seem to annoy her and other days she doesn't seem to care. I took her to the doctor on Monday because she was running a mild fever and had a slight cough. Turns out it was just a precursor to teething and there is nothing to worry about.

I think she has finally adjusted to the time zone change. She is sleeping soundly as I type and has been since 8:30 last night (it is now 7). She didn't even whine for a quick feed at 5, which is what has happened the past couple of nights. Of course as I type that she started moaning and wiggling in her bed. My grandma purchased a nice crib and mattress set for her that should arrive today.

DH is having a somewhat of a difficult time adjusting. He gets along really well with my parents, but never had the change to really get to know my grandma. She is sweet, but set in her own ways and can't hear 90% of the conversation because she forgets to "put in her ears" as she affectionately calls her hearing aids. Last night we had to go to the store at 7:30 because we _had_ to get a wireless router because DH couldn't find ours and my grandma had complained to my mom about DH being on her computer and playing games... this was after she had said: "Any time I'm not on it feel free to use it!" DH was insulted and swears he'll never touch her computer again. :dohh: He also needs to remember she is 87 years old, doesn't remember everything she says and just lost her husband of 67 years 6 months ago. We will adjusted, but it is a bit rocky right now.

Yesterday I received an email from my old HR manager asking me to call her ASAP. Apparently she never put me in for leave without pay and I've been receiving my full salary. I thought I was receiving the 60% I had coming to me for short-term disability. Now, she told me, the state wants close to $4,000 back... which we don't have because we just moved across the country. I sort of fail to see how I can be held responsible for something I didn't do. Lots of tears were spilled over this yesterday.

DH also misplaced my breast pump. Teagen hasn't eaten in 11 hours. Can you say painful? I'm tempted to wake her up just for relief, but I won't. I want her to sleep for as long as possible.


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, sorry to hear about the rocky start to your new life in the PNW!! I hope things start smoothing out soon. That really sucks about your HR department! I would be very upset too, that's a lot of money they're expecting you to come up with. My experience wasn't as bad as yours, but my HR dept did swindle me out of about $900 during my leave. I paid to add supplemental short term disability to my benefits, which would have increased my pay to 80% while I was on leave...but because my leave started in December and continued into the new year, they said they could only pay me based on my benefits at the start of the leave. It didn't matter that the 80% should have kicked in on January 1st. So now I'm paying $250 for a benefit I can't even use, and I got paid $900 less than I should have. I cried too.

Yesterday I took some time off from work to go have some "me time," I went to get my hair cut and to see a movie. The first part of the afternoon went great. I got 4" cut off my hair, got a free eyebrow wax, went to see Iron Man 3 in 3D (fun!), and had dinner at one of my favorite restaurants. After that, I needed to get a prescription at the pharmacy. I was running late, and I wasn't going to make it before they closed, so I called them and asked them to transfer it to another pharmacy that's open later. They said they would, so I went to the other pharmacy to pick it up only to find that the first pharmacy didn't reverse the claim...so the insurance wouldn't let them run it through a second time. ARGH. So I had to pay full price for it and I'll need to bring the receipt back in a few days to get reimbursed.

THEN, as I was driving home, I noticed the temperature gauge in the car had climbed almost into the red. I pulled over and found that the coolant was low, so I filled it up and tried again, but I only got about a mile before the temperature started to climb again. I pulled into a gas station and checked the coolant again, and it was completely empty. I figured there was a leak, so I poured more in to see where it was coming out. I actually watched the level drop all the way down in the reservoir, but it wasn't coming out anywhere! No leak that I could see. 

I tried turning the heater on full blast to take the heat off the engine, but the heater only blew cold air. I called DH and he thought the thermostat might be sticking, and he told me to get to an auto parts store to see if they had any advice. He couldn't come get me because he was home with the babies and I had the carseat bases :(.

So, I poured more coolant in just to get me to the auto parts store...but then the car wouldn't start. The started just chugged and chugged but wouldn't catch. So I was stranded. I called a tow truck and asked my brother in law to come pick me up and take me home. I ended up waiting for almost 2 hours, and by the time I got home I hadn't pumped in about 7 hours. I was full to bursting, and pumped 17 ounces lol. 

What a night!


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## wamommy

All of these babies are so talented! Max can grab his own clothes to put in his mouth, but that's about it :haha: 

I can't believe Teagen is teething already! Wowzers. Is she handling it well? We used wet wash clothes rolled up and then put in the freezer for my girls. It's crunchy and chewy and wonderful on sore gums (yes, I tried it :blush:)

Dragonflywing, the first part of your day sounds heavenly! The second part sounds pretty crappy :( I told my DH what happened with your car, and he had a couple of suggestions. He used to own a chain of car stereo stores, so cars get him all excited, lol. He says that there are 3 options. Either the radiator's water was completely gone, which can cause overheating, and can take up to THREE gallons to fill. Each gallon you pour in will be instantly sucked into the radiator until it's full. Another option is a leak, but it sounds like you ruled that out since you couldn't see where it was coming out. The third option is the one you don't want. It's a cracked head. If it cracks, water is poured into the oil reservoir, where it mixes with the oil. It can ruin the engine. The way to tell if this happened is to check to oil's dipstick. If it's regular black/brown, it's fine. If it's grey sludge, the head is cracked. I hope this helps! 

Kellen, I'm glad the move went well! I can imagine getting used to living with your Grandma is pretty tough. I hope it gets better. In the mean time, getting your own router is probably a good idea if it eases some tension. Also, I'm so sorry about HR. If it was their fault it seems like they should pay it! I hope it gets resolved. You don't need this kind of stress.

Helena, thank you for asking about sleep :hugs: It's thankfully getting a bit better (knock on wood). The last few nights he's slept from 10pm-1am, then again from 2am-4am, then from 4:30am-7, when he's up for the day. It's been so nice! It's not quite sleeping through the night, but I'll take it! :yipee:


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks so much for the advice, wamommy! The car is at the shop now, so hopefully they can tell us what's wrong with it. I sure hope it's not a cracked head...although I'm not optimistic since the car stopped working entirely after I poured a gallon of coolant in :(

I'm about at my wit's end. I found out the waiting list to get into the psychiatry clinic is almost 3 MONTHS. There's no way I can wait that long, so I tried the other medical group in my area. They said they won't take me without a referral from a doctor within their group. My doctor is not in that group. I called my doctor again to get some guidance, and she's out of the office until Monday. So I have to get through the weekend. I'm having an especially hard time today. I just can't focus, and work is so busy that I'm totally stressed out. I had a really bad moment on my lunch break...I went out on the 5th floor balcony to get some air, and had to go right back inside because I was afraid to go near the railing. Then I lost 10 oz of breast milk because the lansinoh storage bag split along the seam after I poured it in. I cried.


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## wamommy

Oh Dragonfly, I'm so sorry :( I don't understand why it isn't a bigger priority for someone to help you?! Did you tell them how you're feeling, and that you can't wait that long? If you did, then shame on them for not seeing you sooner! Hang in there until Monday, and then I'd call your doctor's office and raise holy hell. It's important. You're important. Make them know that. (Sorry, I just want you to be ok!)

I hope everyone has some great plans for Mother's Day this weekend. Wait, it's different in the UK isn't it? Over here it's this Sunday :D I'm not expecting DH to do anything, but we're meeting my Mom for a picnic at the zoo with my kids and their 3 cousins. It should be fun. DH mentioned that I may get contact lenses for Mother's Day :( I've been wearing this pair for way longer than you're supposed to, so I really do need contacts, but come on... for Mother's Day?? I mentioned I would LOVE a nice haircut (I really need a makeover) and DH said, "sure, there's a sale at the Hairmasters down the street." I want a REAL haircut this time, not a trim :( I'm being such a baby!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon that's just aweful that no one is responding quickly! I'm so sorry! Would it be at all worth it to try the med your dr suggested until you can get another appointment with a psychiatrist? Maybe it will help a little to give you some relief? It sounds so miserable- I am so sorry! :( :hugs:

Wamommy, I think you should set up the haircut anyways! It's mother's day and you have three kids so I think that entitles you to a great haircut/ color/ pedicure/ massage- all sorts of niceties! ;). 

We're still struggling with Camden- he still screams so often (and I say" screams" because it's different than his cry he'll stiffen up, turn red-faced, and let out a piercing scream instantly all throughout the day for no apparent reason- it's the same scream he had when he got his immunizations) the dtr still thinks he's in some sort of pain but can't figure it out... we're trying culturelle now to see if it's his intestines or something. I'm not convinced it will help but at least we're eliminating things I guess. :shrug: I feel bad for the poor guy... and I'm exhausted- he hates being set down, so I'm holding him for most of his wakeful hours. :( I just wish there was a for sure way to find out what's going on instead of just trying all of these different things... :(


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## DragonflyWing

Thank for the kind thoughts. Yes, I told them I couldn't wait, and to cover their asses they just told me to go to the emergency room if I felt like I might hurt myself. Well, I'm not going to, so that's not really helpful. I just find it so negligent...I've read stories of this happening to other women with postpartum depression, and they actually killed themselves or hurt their children before anyone took them seriously. I'm certainly not going to hurt myself or anyone else, but how do they know that? They didn't even ask. I mean, a 3 month waiting list? Shouldn't there be some kind of triage that determines the most serious cases to prioritize? I'm sure there are people having a harder time than I am, but I'm also sure that there are people who's situation is not as urgent.

Poor Camden! I sure hope they figure out what's causing his pain soon, that's so sad. Do you think he could be teething at all? I think my two are starting to teethe, and Lily has been doing that same thing with stiffening up and screaming in the evenings. She keeps skipping her last bottle because she screams and screams until she finally passes out from exhaustion. The rest of the day she's fine...and she wants to bite on my fingers, so I think her gums hurt. Tylenol also helps temporarily, but I keep trying other things first because I can't really give her Tylenol every single day, can I?


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, thats so horrible! Is there another psychiatrist near your city maybe? Even if you have to drive a bit it might be worth it! 

I'm not sure on the teething- he's always been like this except for the hand sucking. Is there a for sure way to tell? I'd try to stay away from giving her tylenol every day... I don't know if it's safe or not but I think you're right to limit it.


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## helena

Could Camden be still hungry? Maybe try topping him up with a bottle? Helped my little lady at least.
Hope its sorted soon, poor you and poor him!

Kellen, if you feel you may burst again could you feed while baby sleeps? Each night before I go to bed I feed Kiara when she is already sleep in her bed. She stays asleep throughout but has a full feed to maximize the amount of sleep I will get:) google Dream feeding.

Happy mummy's day weekend my American friends x x x


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## Kellen

Helena - We typically do a dream feed around 5 or 6am, but she was sleeping so soundly I couldn't bear to wake her up. Typically I pump a little in the mornings to make myself comfortable and supply my stash. However, at the time, we didn't know which box contained either the manual or electric pump. :dohh: Oh, the joys of moving. Today we uncovered the electric pump so no more uncomfortableness! And the issue with the half a cigarette was that it was in the house and they had promised us that they were no longer smoking in the house. I don't care how much they smoke as long as it isn't around my baby.

Dragon - It is awful what you are going through. I agree that there should be some sort of triage or assessment that allows at risk patients to be seen earlier. I am very sorry to hear that they don't seem to be taking your case seriously.

The good news is that our crib came yesterday and the mattress arrived today! I am excited to rearrange our room and get everything set up. In the next couple of months I will be converting our huge walk-in closet into a room for Teagen. Due to my rather nautical background we have some super cute decorations. I'm also going to get creative and pain the upper half a light blue and the bottom half a sandy color with a cute chair rail border of sailing ships or a beach scene. Her crib is white with red, white and blue bedding with sailboats on it. I am excited!


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## SierraJourney

Helena, I've tried the bottle after nursing and he usually doesn't take much-maybe half an ounce more? But more often than not, he falls asleep while nursing, so I'm assuming that means he's full? Maybe I should try the bottle again just in case though! 

Kellen- Teagen's room sounds like it will be sooooo cute!!

Well tomorrow evening marks the first time I have left Camden alone with his dad to babysit! I'm going to my nieces dance recital so he's on baby duty for about 4 hours. Is it weird that I'm a little nervous and it's my own husband watching him? I think the thing I'm most nervous about is camdens fussiness- I know Dh gets frustrated so easily by this and I'm usually there to help out. I'm curious how it will go while I'm out and worry a bit that Dh might just let him cry a lot- especially if he's frustrated and needs a break :( Dh is a good dad, just doesn't have as much patience as I do with the crying. I know it won't be the end of the world, but I still get nervous! I think it will be great practice and bonding for Dh though!


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## helena

I think it will be good for you Sierra, and daddy and Camden. They need time alone for boys stuff :) you will come back to them watching football and talking about girls ;)

I know my husband isn't as confident with baby as I am, though he is good, but it its good for them to bond without mummy interesting sometimes. I tend to head straight in when K cries, even if she is with daddy. I am trying to stop that. 

Have a great time and let daddy do what he sees as right - after all its his baby too. If he lets him cry a bit more then that's ok, he loves him, he can make decisions regarding care too...not that I am saying you are controlling, I am thinking how I can probably be sometimes! Lol. he'll be fine I bet. Enjoy yourself and having your arms back for a bit :) x


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Helena- that's definitely me! I'm always running in even when Dh has Camden! It was a lovely time out! I had tons of fun and Dh and Camden did great! They had a good time too!! I'm so glad!


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## DragonflyWing

Happy mother's day ladies :)


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## wamommy

Thank you Dragonfly! :D Happy Mother's Day to you too! I hope everyone is able to relax and enjoy a happy day.


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## Kellen

Happy Mother's Day!


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## DragonflyWing

Argh...I don't understand why it's so hard to get someone to help me. I left a message for my family doctor (the one who is not comfortable prescribing anything besides prozac because I'm nursing) on Thursday, letting her know about the 3 month waiting list to see the psychiatrist, and how I can't find anyone else to take me. I'm pretty sure I sounded really desperate on the message, but I haven't heard from her yet. I called my insurance plan to see if there is anything they can do, and they gave me a few phone numbers of independent doctors, but they were all closed on Friday when I was calling. 

Friday was a BAD day...our car broke down on Wednesday and was towed, so DH had to go to the mechanic's to pick up the car seats and a loaner vehicle, then he had to pick up some things from his mom's place and go to a meeting. I was working from home, but even though I wasn't going to be done until 5:30, he had to leave at 4 because that's the only time his sister could drive him to the mechanic. Gunnar was sleeping and Lily was happily playing on her play mat, so I told him it was ok and I should be able to finish work. 

Pretty much as soon as he walked out the door, Gunnar woke up hungry and Lily started screaming. I had work that absolutely had to be done, but I had to take care of the babies so I shut down early. I was already stressed out, and I think the babies picked up on that because they would NOT calm down no matter what I did. Finally I got Gunnar to bed, but Lilja was completely melting down and was screaming like I was killing her, which woke up Gunnar and he was so scared by her screaming that he started screaming too. I had to call DH to come home early because I hadn't pumped in almost 8 hours, and I was just falling apart. After all that, I was so exhausted, but I had to get back on my laptop at 10pm to finish work. I didn't get to bed until after 1am and I was just sobbing the whole time.

Saturday was better. DH had another appointment, so I was going to be alone with the babies all day again. DH realized that I was not in any shape to do another day by myself, so he asked his sister to come help me. She came over with her husband, and her two boys, age 5 and 2. At first I was worried having so many people in the house would be more stressful, and if she had to take care of her kids she probably wouldn't be able to help me much. HOWEVER, her husband took the boys to the park and she kept Lily occupied long enough for me to pump, eat lunch, and do a load of laundry. Just that little bit helped so much, and I was so much more relaxed.


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## Kellen

My child has been an absolute terror today. Earlier DH and I wanted to put together the crib so I took Teagen out to have some quality time with my parents (they live a whole 500 ft away from the house). I made sure she had a bottle, blanket, diapers and wipes. She was happy and laughing. Twenty minutes later I get a frantic call from my dad and hear Teagen screaming in the background. I went over and nursed her back to a normal level of calm and took her back to our house. She was fine.

I then decided to eat dinner. DH was on the bed so I left them together. Five minutes later I hear bloodcurdling screams coming from the bedroom. It was Teagen again. DH was walking around trying to calm her. He motioned me away and managed to calm her down after about 5 minutes. She wasn't wet, she had just been fed... she was just mad that she couldn't have me.

Then after her bath tonight I laid down with her to nurse, but she was super fussy and bite-y. She has been somewhat teething for the past week, but one of the upper white caps is really visible now. So after fighting to get her to nurse properly for 45 minutes DH put her in her swing where she is sleeping right now. She also managed to poop through her diaper twice today, and pee through it once (that was my mom's fault as she forgot to do up one side as she is not used to dealing with a screaming baby).

Dragon - my heart goes out to you. It was terrible trying to deal with one super fussy baby and relatively no responsibilities. I cannot imagine how difficult it was for you to try to handle two screaming babies while finishing up work. I pray that you get the medical help that you need.


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, what the heck is wrong with your Doctor? No offense, I'm just really upset on your behalf. They are REALLY dropping the ball. I would call over and over tomorrow until they have to call you back! I'm also really sorry you had a tough weekend :( I'm glad your sister-in-law was able to help some. I hope you get some relief soon! :hugs:

Kellen, teething can be so hard! Poor Teagen. We haven't hit that stage yet, thank goodness. I think both of my girls got their first teeth around 7 months, so I'm hoping the tough teething phase is still a while off for us.


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks. I finally got a call back from my doctor's nurse (the doctor used to call me back directly, but it's like she doesn't want to talk to me about this), and she was entirely unhelpful. She basically said the exact same thing as last time, that the dr would prescribe Prozac. I tried to stay calm, and politely explained again that I have tried that before and it did not work and had unacceptable side effects. I asked what I should do since I can't get in for an appointment with a psychiatrist, and she basically said I'd just have to wait the three months.

I told her I absolutely can NOT wait three months, but she had no answer for me, so I started suggesting things myself. I suggested the doctor contact a pharmacist or psychiatrist to get more information on medications that are safe for breastfeeding. I suggested she put me back on a medication I was on in the past that helped (I read some studies and it only passes through to breastmilk in less than 0.06% of the maternal weight-adjusted dose, and has shown no harm to nursing babies). I suggested that she contact the psychiatrist group herself to see if they can squeeze me in for an evaluation (a call from another doctor would carry much more weight than one from me). I suggested she try other psychiatrists in the area, etc. I laid out several options that they obviously hadn't considered...come on, wtf, you are health professionals. The nurse said the doctor was simply not comfortable prescribing anything but Prozac, but that she would see if she could contact other doctors or request I be moved to the front of the wait list for the psychiatric group. She's supposed to call me back today. We'll see what happens.


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## helena

Good work pushing dragon. If you need to stop nursing for the sake of your mental health thats ok.

That's what I am telling myself. K is now 70 percent bottle some days, it varies. But it's the start that is the really important time, those first few weeks. 
I felt I just didnt have enough for her and tbh with all my stress I just needed to make things a bit easier for myself...she certainly seems to be benefiting from my choice - chubby rolls popping out all over:) though I do feel a bit of disappointment.

Xxx


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## wamommy

Helena, I understand the feeling of disappointment. I have been combi feeding for 3.5 months now! I'm SO proud given the obstacles, but also have been feeding him less and less breast milk and more and more formula. I pumped this morning and saw how far my supply has dropped. I know I shouldn't be upset, because 3 months was my goal and I've made it!! I suppose it's just a reminder that I "fail" at BF :( In your case though, it sounds like you're doing exactly what's right for you and your baby, which is always the right decision :D

My girls have a checkup tomorrow. We're planning on getting vaccine boosters so that they will be able to start school in the fall, but BOTH girls are sick today. I'm thinking I should wait on the boosters until they're well. What crummy timing!! I'm just hoping and praying that the baby doesn't get this cold. He hasn't been sick yet (knock on wood!) and I'm pretty sure it would push me straight over the edge.

How is everyone doing? How was Mother's Day?


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## helena

Kiara hs a cough :( 

She also had a cold when she had her vaccines. I would check with the doctor but probably would go ahead and get the vaccines anyway, might as well get all the crappyness over in one go? Though mine rarely react to vaccines badly. The doctor didnt even suggest waiting when K had a cold.

Up early today. There aren't many who can wake me at 5 am, poop in my bed, grin at me and still make me smile. Well done Kiara! X

Latest project for K - trying to sit. My boys think its hilarious to prop her up and see which way She slides...poor baby...lol. (She doesn't cry!)
Often she slumps but she is getting stronger so fast https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_E360C7AE-orig.jpg


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, I agree with Helena- talk to your doctor but it might be okay to get the vaccines anyways. 

Helena, how adorable! What a strong little girl! 

Well, u
I think we're finally getting to the bottom of Camden's fussiness.... but it isn't good news. We found out yesterday that he has a pretty bad urinary tract infection. :( he was having unexplained fevers a few weeks ago, then this week his urine started smelling really bad almost like paint. They say he has probably had it for a while :( I'm sooooo sad they haven't found this sooner, but proves it's good to be persistent- I just kept telling them something was wrong, his crying sounded too pained- he screamed most of the time. Turns out my precious boy WAS in pain :( they started him on antibiotics yesterday, but are concerned because its apparently rare for a baby his age to have a uti. So, they are calling me in the morning to schedule some tests an ultrasound of the bladder and kidneys and a test where they insert die through a catheter to see how his body processes urine- to see if part of his urine is flowing the wrong way. (Called bladder reflux) :( if that's the case, we'd be referred to a state hospital for specialist treatment: ( my poor baby! It makes me cry so much I feel like he's been trying to let us know something was wrong this whole time and it took me this long to finally get an answer :( 

If you gals can pray for him, I'd really appreciate it.


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## helena

Oh bless Camden! Poor little guy. At least he has the antibiotics now. They usually start working within 24 Hrs .
You should feel proud for having kept on pushing. Babies are tricky to work out. So true that mummy knows best!
It sounds like they are checking everything out now and taking action so that's great. Good luck, xxx


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## wamommy

Oh poor Camden!! In a way that's great news, though. If they know what's wrong then maybe they can help him :D Good job following your instincts and getting to the bottom of it. I hope the antibiotics bring you both some relief :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

His tests aren't scheduled until the 28th! :( at least they're scheduled though... so much time for me to worry...


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## helena

But he has his antibiotics so I guess he won't be in pain at least. T infection should be fixed. Try and not panic. Easier said than done though I am sure.
My two year old had a urine infection last year. All out of the blue. Never had it again. I know he isn't newborn and it is different, but maybe it could be the similar - one of those strange things that just happens for no reason. At least you will get to see lovely Camden without pain now - let us know how he is. Hoping you get heaps of smiles and coos for all your hard work and Camden enjoys his new found joy without hurting. enjoy that and try not worry.xxxx


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## Kellen

Sierra - I hope that the antibiotics work quickly and clear up the infection immediately. I'm glad that you have the appointment, but hopefully the problem will be gone by the time it rolls around. Poor, Camden, I am glad you were able to be a pro-active mommy and get to the root of the problem. I'm proud of you for sticking to your guns.

Helena - Congrats to K for working on her sitting skills, and for grabbing toys! That is so exciting! Teagen has done a little toy grabbing, and will hold a teething ring... when my dad holds her, when my mom holds her, when DH holds me, but not when I hold her. Ugh, lazy baby believes mommy should do everything for her.

Wamommy - I hope your girls getting better and don't share their lovely germs with Max. Vaccines make me feel a little out of it during the good times so I understand your reticence, especially with your one really scary episode.

Amusing story about DH today. I had an appointment with our new OB this morning because for the past week it has felt like my IUD was coming out of place. Well, it was. So we trundled off to the doctor's and had a new one inserted. Thankfully the nurse had a great sense of humor and we all got along terrifically. While we were making a follow up appointment for July the nurse asks if we have any further question. DH pops up and asks: "Can we have sex tonight?" (referring to me, but asking the nurse). The poor man normally doesn't blush, but he turned bright red as he stammered, "I mean me and my wife, not with you." The nurse didn't miss a beat: "No, we will most certainly not being have sex tonight, but you may have intercourse with your wife. It is perfectly safe." I found the situation far too amusing.


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## wamommy

:rofl: Kellen! That is too funny! The nurse sounds awesome, and good thing you and DH have a sense of humor :haha:

Well, it's official... Max is sick :( The poor girls have been hacking and snotting all over the house, so it was absolutely impossible to protect him from it. He's been super fussy all day and tonight he's snorting and all stuffed up. I'm expecting the cough any time now. It's unrealistic to expect that a child will never get sick, but it's so hard when it happens! It makes me want to cry watching them suffer. I can't imagine how you must feel, Sierra, with Camden being this way for so long. I really, really hope the antibiotics kick in and he feels better. 

We skipped the Dr altogether today. DH called first thing this morning and told the nurse that the girls were sick. They told us to reschedule in a couple of weeks. It's prudent, given our history, but I'm a bit worried they won't be able to get the spaced-out boosters before school starts in the fall. Ah well... I guess we'll talk to thr Dr when we see him.

I haven't heard a peep from Jo in a while. How are you doing, lady?


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## wamommy

Helena, how did I miss that pic of Kiara? How cute!! And what a clever girl!! She's doing so well :D It's wonderful that big brothers are helping her learn and play. She'll have quite the protectors later on!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Poor Max! I guess it was inevitable, but it is hard since they don't understand how to blow their noses. Congestion really bites! I'm glad that your doctor is taking the girl's illness into consideration, especially with your past history. I hope that they are able to space things out.

Today we had Teagen down on her mat playing with her gym. DH (the romantic that he is) bought me a stuff Dalekk (from Doctor Who) for our anniversary last year. When you squeeze it, it says: "You would make a good Dalek" and "Exterminate, Exterminate!" Because it is on the end of a key fob I hooked it onto Teagen's gym. DH got down and was playing with her and decided to make it talk. She was on her tummy at the time and giggled the first time he did it. For the next five minutes she was laughing and giggle hysterically until I stepped in to stop it because she was gasping for breath she was laughing so hard. It was adorable.

She is also obsessed with a little blonde boy in her book: "Say Moo" that my mom bought her. DH is threatening to draw dresses on the little boy. :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks so much for your support ladies! No improvement in Camden yet, but hopefully soon. 

Kellen , your Dh is a hoot! Sooo funny!

Wamommy-sooo sorry to hear that Max is sick! That's so hard! Poor guy- I hope it clears up really quickly for him!


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## helena

Think we have a bout of thrush in K's mouth,..joy..


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## SierraJourney

Oh no Helena! I've heard that's no fun at all! Poor Kiara! :(


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## helena

She seems ok, I just spotted the white patches inside her lips. We have cream now. Hopefully we can clear it before it gets nasty for her. My boys never had this, to all new to me.


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## wamommy

DD#2 had horrid thrush in her mouth. I didn't know what it was or what to look for, so I think I let it get really bad before recognizing a problem. :( Anyhow, I tried a bunch of medicines that made things worse (the one the Dr gave me had sugar in it... which yeast feeds off of! didn't make sense.) until I finally found the wonder solution.
Grapefruit Seed Extract. You put a certain amount of drops of it into water and wipe it around the effected areas with a Qtip a few times a day. It was gone in a few days. I just bought one of those little glass vials to mix it in at a local vitamin store. I hope it clears up soon!

Sierra, I'm sorry the meds haven't kicked in yet :( I hope they do soon!

Kellen, aren't giggles the best? Even my way-too-serious DH can be caught repeating ridiculous noises over and over if it makes Max laugh. Lately he like certain words repeated loudly. I keep meaning to try and catch it on tape!


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## SierraJourney

They've put Camden on another antibiotic today- trying to clear it up before it gets worse. :(


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## Kellen

Oh, Sierra, I am so sorry for you and Camden. I hope that this antibiotics takes care of the infection right quick. At least the doctors are now on your side. Thank goodness you are such an involved mommy who fought for her baby.

Helena - Thrush does not sound fun. Hopefully you'll be able to get it cleared up. 

Teagen has decided that rolling from front to back is for babies and now enjoys showing off her new skill of rolling from back to front. The first time she did it she was asleep. We heard her moving about and suddenly she let out a wail as she frightened herself (but never woke up). This morning she rolled from back to tummy three times for her great-grandma at breakfast. She is also now able to consistently hold her teething ring and bring it to her mouth.


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## helena

Seems like the thrush cream is already working :) 

8.30pm and all three kids asleep in bed. Kiara is unfortunately in my bed it a least she is asleep :)

How is Camden doing?

Well done Taegan on rolling! Great stuff. None of that here yet. What a clever strong girl.

Oh yes wamommy you must catch the laughter on tape ("tape"!.. How old fashioned are we! Lol). I keep trying to get K but she is just mesmerized as soon as a camera is pointed at her.

Today Kiara shows signs of bonding with the duck toy I would like to be her comforter. I am happy. Is a duck by Beatrix Potter, if you have heard of her? Wrote a set of beautiful animal stories, Peter Rabbit being the most famous. My second son won't sleep without his Peter Rabbit soft toy and it really helped him comfort-wise when he started nursery, and to be independent in general, so I got Kiara another Beatrix Potter character (just because I love them) - Jemima Puddle Duck. It is so pretty. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beatrix-Potter-Cuddly-Jemima-Puddle-Duck/dp/B002BFESDM
Kiara has generally ignored the duck until today when she kept trying to grab its hat and sucked its beak like a dummy! :)
I wanted to get well known charactor toys so if lost I can ge another. My son already lost his first Peter Rabbit. Lost forever in Ikea. He was so sad. Luckily Amazon hurriedly delivered me a new one!
Anyone else hoping to tent baby to bond with a favourite toy? It really helped me son. M first son didnt have a special toy and he was a pain to get to sleep on his own. I really think a little fluffy friend helps them :)


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## SierraJourney

So glad the thrush cream is working! Love the toy story- I keep trying to get Camden interested in toys but so far he is just fascinated with his fist! 

He's much the same today. :( on two antibiotics now so hopefully by tomorrow he'll be a bit better. Last night he was inconsolable... crying so hard he worked himself into a sweat! :( I just want the time to go quickly until his tests- I'm so worried something major is going on! :(


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry, Sierra. Poor Camden :( I wish they could do his tests sooner! Hopefully the antibiotics will start to help. I can't imagine how hard that is for the both of you :hugs:

Kellen, I can't believe Teagen is rolling! When I put Max on his tummy he lifts his arms and legs off of the ground. Picture a skydiver in mid-flight :dohh: I can't wait for him to roll over so that he can be put to bed on his tummy :D Well done, Teagen!

Helena, I love Beatrix Potter! I'm so glad Kiara is bonding with her duck :) My girls didn't bond with anything until about their first birthday. DD#1 chose a monkey (she named it "Dada Monkey" and it still sleeps with her) and DD#2 chose a tiger. She holds it by the tail and rubs it on her face when she's nervous or tired. So far Max doesn't show much interest in toys. His favorite thing in the world is his textured burp cloth! He holds it and feverishly shoved it into his mouth and gums it. He also loves one of those toys where you pull the leg and it vibrates for a second. I pull the leg and then put it on his tummy and he laughs like crazy. Unfortunately it only lasts for a couple of minutes before he is SO over it and gets irritated. :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Lots to catch up on here :)

So sorry to hear about Camden's infection, I sure hope the antibiotics start working soon!

Congrats to all the rolling, grabbing, sitting, giggling babies...way to go! My two are grabbing at things, but no rolling or sitting yet! Gunnar has laughed several times, but I've only seen it twice...DH seems to get all the giggles from him. Lily has not laughed at all yet. Any suggestions on what I can do to coax some giggles out of them? They both give me huge smiles and delighted squeals when they see me (I think I'm somewhat of a novelty...on work days I only see them for about 1-2 hours :(), but I can't seem to make them laugh!

Last night, I came home from grocery shopping and Lilja was in the swing. DH said she had been cranky and he couldn't make her happy. We have the swing in an isolated corner of the living room, kind of behind the couch so it's a calm, quiet spot for the babies to relax, wind down, and sometimes nap. I peeked around the couch to see what she was doing, and she was staring up at the mobile and babbling at the lights. DH peeked around the other side of the couch and she shot him a decidedly sour look like "leave me alone, can't you see I'm talking to these lights here?" I was trying not to laugh and let out a little snort, and she turned and spotted me. Her face lit up, she gave me the biggest open-mouth grin, and started waving her arms and kicking her legs like crazy and going "huh huh huh!" like she was so excited. It was the cutest thing ever. I just love it when they're happy to see me.

We took the babies out to a restaurant for the first time on Saturday night. DH's brother and his girlfriend were visiting, and they invited us out to my favorite restaurant. We decided to give it a shot, even though it would mean having the babies out past their bedtime. 

Luckily, the place was pretty empty, because Lily started to melt down as soon as we got there. As soon as she started to cry, I got up and walked around in an empty section with her, which calmed her down immediately (the girl likes to be on the move). DH's brother's girlfriend switched off with me for a few minutes so I could wolf down my dinner, which was nice. She LOVES babies and I practically had to pry the baby out of her arms so she could eat her own dinner lol. 

Then I took Lily down to the end of the bar where there were no customers, and sat on a bar stool and swivelled back and forth to kind of "rock" her, and she started to fall asleep. Suddenly, I felt a really warm spot on my leg and thought "oh shit!" She had peed right out of her diaper, soaking through her clothes and my jeans. There was no changing station in the bathroom, so I had to lay her changing pad on the counter next to the sink to change her clothes. Unfortunately, I didn't have a change of clothes for myself, so I just had to live with pee on my pants :haha:. 

Of course, Gunnar was an angel throughout the meal, and DH got to sit and eat his meal in peace with no interruptions ;). Then, Lily fell asleep the minute we got back in the car, and Gunnar screamed the whole way home. :rofl:

Luckily, they both went to bed right when we got home, and slept a full 12 hours. Not sure we'll be taking them to any restaurants for a while!


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## wamommy

That sounds like an adventure, Dragonflywing! Two of the many perks of motherhood are wolfing down food and having constant pee and/or barf stains on our clothes. :haha:

Max is pretty good at restaurants, but he's a pretty mellow guy. He sounds a lot like Gunnar. Worst case scenario, I have to hold him the whole meal or feed him, but a lot of the time he'll just sit in his seat looking around. I figure it's my payoff for the sleepless nights! :)

As far as getting him to laugh, it's SO random what works! I can try for hours and get only little smiles, and then a random movement or sound will send him into stitches. He seems to like being startled, though. Big, loud, silly movements make him freeze for a minute and then laugh. I still haven't caught it on tape, though. And yes, Helena, that phrase shows our age! :haha: I still forget my phone has a camera.


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## Kellen

Adventures in teething here. Poor Teagen is having a terrible time. Last night she screamed at DH when he didn't hand her over to me fast enough. Right now (at almost 8pm) she is wide awake. She had been going to sleep at 7pm for the past two weeks until this darned tooth started popping up. So for the past three night she has gone down around 8:30 or 9, woken up at 4am and then slept with us until around 7am. Naps have been hit and miss. She just gave me a perfectly formed and unpopped bubble on my hand. Sooooo much drool.

She also loves rolling onto her tummy. I put her in her crib so I could grab her swing and when I came back she was on her tummy looking around. Her sheets have shapes on them which she was scratching at.

We are also now wearing size 3 diapers as the size 2 were having blowouts each time she pooped. I sized up after washing the sheets 4 days in a row.

I just put her back in her swing and she is whining and saying: "Mamum...ma, ma mu!" Poor deary is so, so tired.

Helena - Whenever I read "clever" in your posts I hear it as Clara from the most recent Doctor Who episodes where they are consistently saying: "Clever, girl!"

Now I'm off to try to comfort my poor unhappy baby.


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## Kim2012

Hi ladies and babies

Havent been here of late. Back in work so still trying to manage it all is proving difficult!!!
Loads to catch up here. Sorry to hear about all the sick babies. Hope they get well soon
Congrats on the babies grabing toys and rolling. No rolling or grabing from Brianna yet. All she can do is scratch her legs.... Poor girl has eczma. We have had lots of creams and washing lotions but all dont seem to help she still wakes up 5-6 times a night screaming and scratching. I have got the E45 itch relief and fingers crossed!!


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## SierraJourney

Camden's tests were rescheduled for tomorrow! No improvement- very unhappy baby: (

Kellen, sorry to hear about the teething... poor girl.
Kim- I hope this eczema cream works- how miserable. :(


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Camden's tests were rescheduled for tomorrow! No improvement- very unhappy baby: (
> :(

The tests were on the 28th, right? So they moved them up? Yay! :D I'm so sorry Camden still feels awful, but I'm really glad they're able to take it seriously and get you in sooner. Poor little guy :hugs:

Kim, I'm sorry to hear about Brianna's itching. I hope the new cream works for her. How is it being back at work?

Dragonfly, any news about seeing a specialist sooner?

Haven't heard from Jo in a while :( Jo, I hope all is well :flower:


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## SierraJourney

Yes they moved it up since he's doing so poorly. I can't wait to hopefully have some answers!


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## Kellen

Sierra, you and Camden are on our prayer list here. I am glad they moved the test up. I hope it is something that is relatively easy to fix. Poor little guy. It is tough watching Teagen deal with her teeth. I can't imagine having to watch my baby suffer all day every day. 

Kim - I am sorry to hear about the eczema. I've heard that coconut oil can help as well as breastmilk. I don't have personal experience, so I hope the cream clears it all up.

Jo has been absent. I know she has a baby journal on here so I might go hunt her down.

Teagen now loves to be on her tummy since it is her idea. This morning when we woke up she was calmly staring at us from between the slats of her crib where she was laying on her tummy. She had also, somehow, managed to get one arm out of her Zippy. When she saw us coming to get her she promptly flipped back onto her back. Only one fuss at 4am, which I gave her some Tylenol. She never woke up, but contently snuggled with DH for 45 minutes before I woke him back up and told him to put the baby back in her crib.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen. I really appreciate it. Yesterday Camden wasn't eating very well and only had 4 wet diapers- which is sooo unusual for him. I don't know if it's coo related to what's going on with him or what, but I don't like it!

That's so cute that Teagen had her arm out of her zippy. Camden kept breaking free from his swaddles so this week we switched him to a swaddle sleep sack. It's been great so far! Gives him the freedom to kick his legs which he loves but still swaddles his arms. Eventually we'll switch to a regular sleep sack, but this step is fine by me. :). I can't believe my little baby has outgrown his swaddles! They're growing up so fast!


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## Jo_Bean

Hey ladies. I am still lurking. I do read nearly all of your posts but I don't always have advice and usually I am reading and running as I just have so little time these days. 

Olivia is doing well. She's smiling and holding her head up now. We even had a giggle the other day. 

I have good positive days and some bad when I feel down about her future and the unknown. We are waiting for a muscle biopsy date and that should help. I've had an awful experience with a consultant recently who basically told me that there is something wrong with O, we just need to find out what and then we'll know her prognosis and whether we have to come to terms with a shortened life expectancy. You can imagine how that felt!

We remain positive though and know that whatever her problems, we'll beat them. Or at least do our best trying x


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## DragonflyWing

OMG Jo, what a terrible thing for that consultant to say! Why in the world would they want to say something like that when they don't have all the information? I sure hope all the tests come back favorable :hugs:

wamommy, I got an appointment for June 25th, so less than 3 months but still quite a while. They told me they'd let me know if there was a cancellation between now and then.


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## helena

Oh Jo, what an awful thing to hear. I didnt realize things we so serious. I must read your blog more. Christ, sending you lots of hugs and strength x x x x. X

k is months old today! Trying her on a bit of fruity mush at lunchtime :) our Swiss doc says that from 4 months is fine, am sure it used to be 6 but am excited! Apple, mango and peach mush here we come! :)

Am not sure if I should take her three weeks early into account? Or maybe they don't count as she was considered "term" (by 1 day)... But we will try just a little and see how she goes. She sits up at the table with us in a bumbo style chair with a tray :)


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## DragonflyWing

Happy 4 months to Kiara! I think it's really up to your discretion whether you want to start solids now or wait a while...it all depends on how ready you think K is :)

Our doctor told us we could start solids at their 4 month checkup...I was shocked, because they were only 2 months adjusted, and I didn't feel they were ready. I actually planned on waiting until they were 8 months (6 months adjusted), but now I don't think we will wait that long. Lilja especially is showing signs that she's ready (very interested in our eating, seems dissatisfied with her milk in the evenings, has great head control and minimal tongue thrust reflex), so we tried her on some very runny rice cereal mixed with breast milk. She did ok with it, but wasn't that thrilled, so we're waiting a little while longer.


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## wamommy

Jo, I'm so sorry! It seems wrong for the consultant to say such a thing before you know for sure what's going on!! I didn't know how serious things were either, and I'm so sorry. I should read your blog more often too. I'm so glad you checked in, though, and I'll be sending a ton of thoughts and prayers your way :hugs:

Helena, our Pediatrician said we could start solids at 4 months too, but I don't know what to start him with! What is the easiest to digest? I think we started with rice cereal with the girls, but they both hated it. I have the cutest video ever of DD#1's first peaches. She giggles after each bite. :) I can't believe all of the babies are getting so big that they're ready to EAT!

We're having a little bit of sleep regression here :( Max was doing so much better and sleeping for 3-4 hours at a stretch. The last 2 nights he back to the one hour down, one hour up, routine. I hope this is temporary! :wacko:


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## helena

I started K on fruit. I imagine it easy to digest..it's only mush and water right? She didn't seem overly excited but it was so cute watching her little tongue wiggle about, taking in the new flavor. W will try a little each lunchtime now, just a bit. It's not like she was eating it as such, more like licking. Today it was peach, apple and mango. I bought a few pots but will probably make my own apple mush purely for the fact that she only licked a super small amount of the shop bought mush, and it says it only keeps for 12 hours in the fridge. Seems a waste of the rest of the pot.

I also have some apple and strawberry mush and some rice cereal with vegetable stock or something like that. But I am not keen on that. I remember reading once tht someone didn't feed their baby anything that they wouldn't eat. And to me that makes sense. Their taste buds are fresh and new, I want to give her nice things, not awful bland mush. With my second son I tended to just mush up whatever we had, less any processed bits or hot spices. It worked well. He is still a very fussy toddler, as was my first who i was much more traditional with (started on carrot, went to apple, then more bland yuck) but second son loves fruit. I swear he would live on plums if he could.
I think I will do the same this time - give K whatever we are having as long as there is no salt or processed food or cows milk until she is bigger. Although I have seen baby yogurts for 4 months plus...I may try them. 
It's a lot of fun (and washing!) xx


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## wamommy

Yum, Helena! Making your own mush is a great idea (and WAY cheaper!).

I'm excited about a silly thing today. AF has returned! :dance: I never thought I would be happy to see her, but the constant PMS-like limbo has been so annoying! I just want my normal body back, hormones and all :haha:

Sierra, any news about Camden?


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## helena

Yay for the witch!x 
I feel mine could be soon.


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## helena

Day 2..banana is now her official favourite lunch ;)


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## Kellen

Helena - Congrats on starting K on real food. I'm glad that she is enjoying all the new tastes and textures the world has to offer.

Wamommy - Hooray for AF! I am still enjoying the benefits of not having AF around for a while.

Today Teagen created a word for either hungry, food or breast (possibly a combo). We were laying in bed and she was talking. She looked up at my face, then down at my breast and said : "Mmmm-rang!" I thought she was just babbling, but she did it two more times, same sound. Then later in the afternoon she said it again in context to laying down to feed.

We are thinking of trying the BLW approach when she gets closer to six months. Her tongue reflex is mostly gone, now all she needs to do is sit all on her own. We started practicing three days ago and her confidence is growing.

We still have lots of drool and three teeth that are trying to come in. The bottom one was poking up a bit yesterday, but seems to have gone down today. She manages the pain okay during the day, but has a bit of trouble at night trying to settle down. Her new favorite teething toy is a spoon. I was eating ice cream today and she was interested in my spoon so I let her have it. As soon as she grabbed it she tried to poke her eye out. :dohh: I remembered that someone had given us a bundle of baby spoons. Thankfully I actually knew where they were. She had a ball! She chomped on it and mimicked the adults as we ate. It was fun.


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks girls. 

To be honest, I've written updates when things happen but I do chatter in my journal a lot about inane and pointless stuff too. It can't be all doom and gloom right!? And I have a very cute baby who is still doing very cute baby things and so she helps me to forget what could be.


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## helena

Cuteness and inane babble are two very important things in my life too Jo xxxx

Kellen I do a bit of BLW with spoonfuls of mush on the side. I found it worked good with my boys. While they try and tackle real food and spend time trying to pick up bits and suck on big pieces I slip in spoons of food. Fr me it takes away the worry that they haven't consumed much. And at the same time they get used to the textures nd other skills involved in pieces of food.

K only woke once last night to feed. She went to bed at 7.30, I dream fed her at 11 and she woke briefly at 4 to feed then up at 7. Very pleased, as I got 5 hours in a row of sleep..it's been a while. 
All of a sudden she started going to bed a normal time, its so nice especially as I was starting to wonder how on earth I was to break her 10 or 11pm bedtime routine. I think it was the regular waking up time that did it - she has no choice but to wake at 7 or 8 when we take my sons to school. She just started to get tired earlier. It has been about a week of 8pm ish bedtimes, it so works for me! DH and I even had friends for dinnre on thursday evening, and dinner with wine sitting at the table last night. It Is usually just pizza or something easy on the sofa.

Finally I think breastfeeding is at an end for us. I am kind of sad about it since I had full supply for a while there and was very pro breastfeeding. It just didnt quite work out....I suspect my stresses affected supply a bit and once I saw ow effective the bottle was at creating cute chubby rolls I became a bit lazy. Ah well, 4 months is good right?
I don't have hardly any milk now so am pretty sure it's the end of the road.
Bt maybe it is contributing to the fact K only fed one last night?!


Happy French Mother's Day all xxx


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## Jo_Bean

As we didn't have a choice with breast or bottle because if Olivias muscle issues, we went 100% formula when she came off the feeding tube. She's pretty much been amazing at sleeping at night and I'm sure it's because of that. Silver linings and all that :thumbup:

We were going to try BLW. But again, due to the doctors concerns over her muscles, they want us to start on puréed mush because of the choking hazard. I think she'd be fine but I guess I have to trust their advice for now. We might start this in a month or so but she's already showing interest in our food and I bet she will love it when she starts tasting more interesting tastes.


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## Kellen

Helena - Any BF is better than none at all. If you and K are doing well on formula then that is what needs to happen. After all you understand her needs and your needs. As long as she is a happy, healthy baby that is all that matters.

Jo - I am sorry to hear that the doctors are giving you more stress. I hope and pray that O just continues to get stronger and disprove all of their negative comments. At least you are doing a good job advocating for her.

I am thankful that we have been able to exclusively BF from day one. When Teagen's blood sugar dropped right after birth the NICU doctor gave us the option of two feeds with expressed colostrum or we would have to try formula. We were okay with that as long as it was what was best for Teagen. Thankfully the BM did the trick and we didn't have to resort to formula.

Today I was taking a plate of leftovers out to DH and my dad in the RV. As I stepped off the porch I took two steps and then suddenly I was falling as my ankle decided to stop supporting me. I did manage to keep the plate of food from tipping over and spilling on the ground. I called for help, but my mom and Grandma were too enthralled with Teagen to hear me. Thankfully I had my phone so I called my dad and DH immediately came running and carried me inside. It is a fairly bad sprain, but I am super thankful that it was only a plate of food and not the baby I had in my arms.


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## wamommy

Jo, I could use a little inane in my life! I tend to be a bit of a stress-case lately, so feel free to share any and all cuteness :D

Helena, I thought I was okay with my dwindling milk supply, since each week Max gets more formula and less breast milk. He's completely ok with that! When I started AF, however, my supply dropped dramatically :( I went from pumping 5 oz each morning (with 3-4 other feeds throughout the day) to only pumping 2 oz! It was shocking and made me sort of sad. It's weird, because I really thought I was ok with it. I found myself buying fenugreek and adding pumpings today. I may have only been able to offer 10oz a day since Max was born, but I was proud of those 10 oz, damn it! I know at some point he'll be exclusively formula, but I don't think I'm ready yet. In your case, Helena, I would be so proud of how much you've done! It's awesome that you gave Kiara 4 months, and if formula is what's working (LOVE little wrist and leg rolls) then do it! :)

Kellen, thank goodness you weren't carrying Teagen! Although, since your instincts to save the plates of food were strong, I'm sure you would have held onto Teagen in a fall. Still, how scary! I hope your ankle heals quickly. Sprains are no fun.

Sierra, how' s Camden doing? You have both been in my thoughts.


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- so sorry about your ankle! I'm sure you would have protected Teagan in a fall, but I'm also really glad you didn't have to! I've known moms who have hurt themselves a lot worse in a fall because they were trying to protect their child.

wamommy- glad AF has arrived for you so you can start feeling more normal again. I'm finding that PMS is so much worse for me now than pre-pregnancy. I'm still bitter that I'm exclusively expressing for twins and I got my period back so fast lol.

helena, so glad K is enjoying her solids! I love bananas, so I don't blame her for picking them as her favorite :)

Yesterday, we tried L and G on rice cereal again, and they really liked it! Most of it ended up on their faces and bibs rather than in their tummies, but they had fun :). Our doctor recommended we try rice cereal mixed with breastmilk first, then when they've mastered using the spoon, we can move on to pureed veggies like sweet potato and carrots. From there we can go to fruits, and once they're about 7-8 months, we can try other foods like pureed meats and such. She told us we should wait three days after we introduce each food before trying another new one...that way if there is an allergy or sensitivity, we will know right away which food was the culprit. Also, she said we should introduce single ingredient foods before mixed foods for the same reason.

Ok, you all are going to think I'm crazy, but Lily said her first legitimate word yesterday! We've been trying to get both babies to tell us when they're hungry so they don't feel like they have to cry to communicate. I was planning on teaching them some baby sign language, but since they're so vocal, we decided to see if they could use a word to tell us. I figured they would make up a sound like Gunnar did for his pacifier (ning), but no! Yesterday, Lily was fussing so I asked her "Are you hungry? Hungry? Say hungry if you want to eat" and she whined "Ung-gee! Ung-gee!" I was like =O and I thought maybe she's just mimicking me, and she loves the "ung" sound, so maybe she was just making noises. But I praised her and fed her right away just in case.

Later in the day, she was starting to melt down and I said "Tell me what you want, Lily" and she said clear as day "Ung-gee!" I got her bottle and she really was hungry. I was like 'holy crap my 5 month old is talking!' :haha:


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## helena

It's funny how guidelines change from place to place. And from time to time. When I had my first son the advice on introducing solids was just like yours Dragon. Now apparently the Swiss has changed their minds and say anything in any order! S she could have beef casserole tomorrow, as long as there is no salt...crazy! And no cows milk products until later. But I have seen yogurts that say from 4 months so I don't know what they are made of !?

Glad they enjoyed the rice. Kiara is so happy. In fact she wont sit in her little chair when we have dinner and be happy unless I spoon feed her too! It's lovely she is joining in family activities like this. She obviously doesn't like being left out.

Had a funny incident at a friends this afternoon. kiara was asleep in Her car seat when the doorbell rang. Gentle ding-donggggg. She instantly woke and had the sadest face and cry. Bless her for being scared of a door bell! Sweet little girl. Is it bad of me to find her sad face so very very cute though!? Full bottom lip out :)

Tis time last year our little bundles were just fertilized eggs passing down our tubes I think? Amazing, what a year. Glad to have known you all so long :)


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## DragonflyWing

Yes! Today is the 1 year anniversary of conception for us :) At least, as close as I can pinpoint it!


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## Kellen

We told Teagen "Happy Conception Day!" on the 21st last week. It is amazing to think that at this time last year we were all in the TWW. I remember going to a BBQ and refusing any alcohol... just in case.

Dragon - How fantastic that Lily is communicating with you using real words! Teagen has made up words, but does say "Mamma" on a frequent basis. It melts my heart. However, we have been doing baby sign language with her and she signs (or at least I take it to be a sign) "eat" which is moving your hand to your mouth. She loves to chew on her fist, but if ask her if she is hungry she will frantically move her hand to her mouth repeatedly.

Helena - Recommendations seem to on almost a daily basis. We are personally not introducing wheat, dairy, eggs or soy until after 1 year based on my allergies. That is fantastic that K is so involved with family life.


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## wamommy

I can't believe it's been a year since conception!! I was just thinking about this the other day (ours was the 24th or 25th) and couldn't believe how time had flown. 

I'm also so thankful to have known all of you ladies. I don't go into it often, but my home-life with DH has been... challenging... and it's been so helpful to have the normalcy and cheerfulness that you guys bring. Thank you for that! :D

It's so amazing that your LOs are communicating!! Well done, babies! Max says the occasional (and accidental :haha:) "Mama" but I think real words are a ways off for us. He's also a huge fan of shoving his fist frantically in his mouth. He tries to fit the whole hand in there and then cries when it won't go :dohh: It's both sad to watch and completely comical.

Helena, I know exactly what face you mean when Kiara was startled by the doorbell! Max makes it too when he's startled, and we've taken to calling it a Frownie. It's so heartbreaking, but so incredibly cute too! I have a picture of DD#1 making the most intense Frowny when she was about 3-4 months old. I should find it and show you. SO cute!


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! So sorry I've been absent! It's been a trip with Camden! The tests were awful he hated the ultrasound ones, but at least I got to hold him during those. The other test he had to lie on a table screaming and crying for 20 minutes while he had a catheter in they shot die into his bladder. It was horrible! I had to view all of this from a window because they didn't want me exposed to the Xray since we plan t ttc in the future. Heartbreaking! 

However, the tests came back NORMAL! That's just wonderful news! His uti is now gone thanks to antibiotics. The doctors are calling it a fluke unless it comes back- so we are just keeping an eye on it for now. His temperament is still about the same, though he's a bit more consolable now... so I think clearing upthe uti helped him tremendously! He still HATES his carseat, car rides, tummy time, and stroller rides though! (All of which I find bizarre for a baby!). 

He rolled over for the first time yesterday- I couldn't be more proud!!! :).


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## helena

Yaaaay for Camden! Great news :)
Xxxxx

My first son hated tummy time and strollers / pushchairs...he was a child who knew what he wanted and didn't want....and at nearly 5 is still a loveale pain in the backside ;) spirited..that's a good word :)

Last night Kiara went 6 hours without feeding. It is a record for her. She actually woke to feed after 4.5 hours but I put her dummy in to stop her crying while I or her a bottle and she went back off for 1.5 hours. I just need her to stretch that time out by anther two hours and I can have a full night of sleep...imagine!! (Sorry wamommy,.. ;))
I will be stopping night feeds around 6 months though I may still "dream feed" before I go to bed.

Oh listen to me, three nights of just one feed each night...it could all change tonight, I am getting ahead of myself! Lol, just so excited about sleep :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Helena! I'm so relieved. 

Is 6 months when we're supposed to stop feeding in the middle of the night? Whenever Camden wakes up I always feed him then put him back down... it'd be lovely when I can start weaning him off of that feeding!


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## Kellen

Sierra - I am pleased to hear that Camden's UTI is gone and that everything looks normal. I hope that you two can come to an understanding about what makes him happy. Teagen hates her super safe infant carseat in our car, but loves the convertible carseat in my parent's SUV. I also think that facing backwards in a moving vehicle makes her a little motion sick. Good job rolling!

Wamommy - I am sorry to hear that thing a rocky on the home front. At least we can try to provide a bit of normalcy and a place to let down. I hope that Max decides that nighttime sleeping is a good thing.

Helena - Congrats on Miss K sleeping so long. It is good that you are excited and looking ahead.

Last night Teagen was a terror. She had missed her afternoon nap because I had a dentist appointment. So she took a late nap from 4:30-6. We then laid down and she fell asleep at 7:30 until DH came in and was loud. She cracked an eye and glared. He then left to take out the trash, but left the door open. Teagen was mostly still asleep until my poor deaf (without her hearing aids) came in and asked if the baby was asleep.. in a loud voice that would wake the dead. From 8-10 Teagen whined and cried until she finally passed out.


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so glad Camden's tests came back normal!! Phew, right? I'm sure you're so relieved :D I hope things start to get easier :hugs: In the mean time, hurray for rolling over!

Max LOVES his car seat. The best sleep he gets is the 2-3 hours we spend running errands each afternoon. Once the car starts rolling he zonks out completely. I try to remind myself how lucky I am that Max likes his seat. It makes up for the tough nights. Although (HUGE knock on wood) he seems to be getting better at night! Last night he slept from 1:30-5am, which is insanely long for him. Here's to hoping it's a trend!

Helena, I'm so glad Kiara is a great sleeper! Can you even imagine/remember 8 hours straight? Maybe the solid foods are helping her sleep longer?

Kellen, Teagen sounds like a little character. Isn't it fun to get to see the babies' personalities start to come out?


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## DragonflyWing

LOL my two try to shove their whole fists in their mouths too! :haha: It's so funny to watch...Gunnar tries and tries and never gets frustrated, but Lily growls and grunts the whole time and gets super pissed because it won't fit.

I really want to drop my 2:30am pumping session. I hate having to wake up in the middle of the night when the babies are sleeping through. I'm just afraid it will drop my supply, because I can't add another session during the day. Any suggestions?


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## helena

Sorry no suggestions...formula?;)

Bronchiolitis and still a touch of thrush here :(

4 month check up and two vaccines today too. My poor baby. She is a bit sad.

6.1 kilos and 60cm. Quite short, 25 percentile.

Writing quickly as am mid baking session for a nursery school party lunch tomorrow.


Ohhh this time last year, symptom spotting!..


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## wamommy

:rofl: Dragonfly.... I think Max and Lily are the same! He looks at me like it's MY fault his fist won't fit :haha:

As for the pumping, I am totally not the one to ask. I'm frantically trying to get my supply back up after AF seems to have destroyed it. I'm pretty darn close to saying enough is enough and going to exclusively formula. I'll give it 3-4 days to see how the Fenugreek works, but if I'm still only pumping 1 oz MAX per session, it's not really worth all of the stress it's causing. 

Helena, I hope Kiara feels better! Poor thing :( As for symptom spotting... I don't want another baby (3 is more than I can handle!) so why does it make me a bit nostalgic thinking of TTC and almost sad that I won't get to do it again? I seriously need a swift boot to the head.


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## Kellen

Dragon - Since I don't pump I don't know what to say. I feed Teagen at 7:30pm and she will sleep until 5:30, have a quick snack and sleep until 8 or 8:30. I don't have any supply problems, but am rather engorged in the morning. I pump a couple of ounces for comfort between 5:30 and eight because she'll only take one side before falling off the nipple.

Helena - Thrush does not sound pleasant. Then again neither does the bronchitis or vaccines. I am looking forward to Teagen's 4 month check up next month, but not the jabs that come with it. I think we are going to try a spaced out routine so as not to overload her system.

Wamommy - You are one tenacious momma! I hope that the fenugeek works to boost your supply a bit. 

Teagen loves her fist too, but she has recently discovered individual fingers and her toes. She also has a teething ring and spoon she likes to hold and chew on. A while ago I read an article about "momsicles". Basically frozen breast milk on a stick. Well, I found s great little plastic thing at the store to make Popsicles with. It's handle is ring like so I thought Teagen would be able to hold onto it nicely. So this morning when I pumped I put some in the mold and stuck it in the deep freeze. I think I didn't let it freeze long enough because the stick pulled out. So I grabbed her spoon and we practiced eating. She had so much fun. I had to make her slow down after I think she got brainfreeze a couple of times.


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## helena

Bronchiolitis is the worst of her current ailments...fever of 39 and screaming last night :(


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## Kellen

Poor dear, that sounds horrible. I hope that she gets better quickly and that you're able to get some rest too. :(


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## helena

Today she is mostly sleeping it off. I read it usually passes in 12 (!) days, so she should be ok for our next visit to see my mum in two weeks. I do worry about taking mum bugs following her chemo.

On another subject, our doctor said its important K has some gluten in her diet from this age. The rice and veg mix I got says gluten free....any ideas where to find gluten in a baby diet? Maybe I need a more mixed cereal porridge rather than rice?...


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## DragonflyWing

Pretty sure I have mastitis. :(

I woke up with a sore area on my right breast yesterday, which got progressively worse throughout the day until even my shirt touching me was painful. Then, I started getting terrible body aches and joint pain, and spiked a fever. Big red area on the breast, too. I felt like absolute crap and could barely get out of bed by the evening. 

Strangely, I feel a lot better this morning. No fever, and the body aches are gone. I still have a sore red area on my breast, though, so I'm going to call the doctor to see what she recommends.


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## SierraJourney

Oh dragon-mastitis is horrible!! I had it a month after baby was born- same symptoms- chills, fever- it was awful! Antibiotics and applying pressure while he nursed or while I pumped cleared it right up! Hope you continue to feel better!


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## Kellen

Helena - I hope it clears up quickly, and I certainly understand needing to be careful with your mom. I'm glad that you are able to go see her again. As for gluten I am a gluten free person due to allergies. Anything with wheat in it will have gluten, so will a lot of different types of oatmeal. I know here in the states you can buy packets of wheat gluten to cook with.

Dragon - that doesn't sound good. I hope your doctor is able to give you something to help.


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## wamommy

Helena, I hope Kiara feels better! :hugs: I'm glad she's sleeping it off today. Her body must know what it needs!

Ouch, Dragon...that sounds so painful. I hope you can see the Dr and get it cleared up!


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## helena

Kellen, I googled gluten and babies and it seems they think introducing gluten between 4 and 6 months can be the best way to avoid wheat allergy...thought it may interest you:
_many doctors now think that between the ages of four and six months is the best time to carefully start introducing gluten, in small amounts, to the baby&#8217;s diet, while the mother continues to breastfeed. In 2008, the European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition published a &#8220;position paper&#8221; that said, in part, &#8220;It is prudent to avoid both early (before 4 months) and late (7 months) introduction of gluten, and to introduce gluten gradually while the infant is still breast-fed, inasmuch as this may reduce the risk of celiac disease, type 1 diabetes mellitus, and wheat allergy.&#8221;_
https://celiacdisease.about.com/od/raisingaglutenfreechild/a/Breastfeeding.htm

I am no longer breastfeeding but doc still seemed to stress gluten was important, though I have no allergies.

Kiara feeling sorry for herself with a horrid sounding cough. but she is a star and went off to bed ok. Lets keep everything crossed for a less feverish night.

Oooh, mastitis doesn't sound fun, good luck getting sorted xxxx


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## Kellen

That is wonderful information to have, thank you. It is one of the questions we'll be querying our pediatrician with next Thursday.

Teagen's awake time seems to be stretching further in the mornings. She was up from 9:30 to 12:15 without a break. Now we are cuddling as she puts herself to sleep and I watch Time Team.


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks ladies, I went to the doctor and got antibiotics. Feeling much better now!


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## Kellen

Dragon - I am glad that the doctor was able to give you some antibiotics. I hope it quickly clears up the mastitis for you.

Yesterday was a horrible day. As Anne Shirley would say, It was a Jonah day. I woke up and went over to visit with my parents, only to be told that my grandma feels like we aren't appreciative enough of her letting us live with her. Then to find out that my DH was only partially paid due to some issues with his transfer. I had a major meltdown and left a teary message on DH's phone. He called back, I cried and he freaked out that I was immediately going to start having major symptoms of PPD.

On the upside he did clean our entire bedroom and empty three boxes. He also now seems to have a better understanding that I don't ever get a break from Teagen and even though I love her with all my heart I too need a little time to myself every once in a while. He has been awesome and helpful.

Then Teagen and I were out in my parents RV taking a nap (because we nap where we fall asleep) when I heard a terrible "CLANG! CRUNCH!" The breaks on my dad's truck had went out. He had the option of ramming either the trailer that Teagen and I were in or the barn. He said there was obviously no choice and hit the barn. Thankfully he was unharmed, but there is rather obvious damage to the barn and a scrape on the truck.

Last night Teagen went to sleep super easily at 7:30. I was able to get up and do laundry, when all of the sudden she woke up screaming at 10pm. I brought her to the bed, fed her and put her back in the crib. She woke up. So I took her back to the bed with me until DH came to bed at 1am. Back to the crib she went. She slept until 2:30 when she woke up screaming again and trying to stuff both fists in her mouth. We made the decision to keep her in the bed with us... which we had just rearranged to make it safe to co-sleep if need be. 

Now DH is imitating a washing machine to keep her from screaming... it is 10pm-ish. We tried to sleep at 7:30, nope, 8:30, why are you staring at me as we nurse? 9:30, nope not sleepy. It is now 10 and she is very unhappy. We have her half a dose of Tylenol at 8. She can have more at midnight, but I am hoping she falls asleep and stays asleep before that. I wish those darn teeth would just break through and leave her alone for a week or so. Poor baby...


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry you had such a bad day, Kellen :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Kellen! That sounds horrible! I hope today goes way better for you!! :hugs:


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## Kellen

Yesterday was waaaaay better than Saturday. I also forgot to mention that I accidentally pinched the skin on Teagen's wrist and left a mark... which made her scream bloody murder.

Teagen's teeth are bugging the heck out of her. The last three nights she has come into our bed around 2:30 and stayed until we got up. I tried to have DH put her back in the crib last night at around 4, but she fussed for 15 minutes before I finally had him get up and bring her back. We can feel the upper teeth trying to cut through.


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## helena

Oh it's awful accidentally hurting them isn't it. I trapped Kiara's ear (!) in the poppers on er sleeping bag yesterday. Bd mummy! She screamed and I felt so bad. Wondered why it wouldn't do up easily...oops, ear in the way. Bad bad mummy....

She says also been ending up in or bed from 4 or 5 am for the last two nights. Not sure if its the bronchiolitis or what. But I am happy to do whatever we need to sleep. A long as she goes to sleep alone in her bed to start with I am happy. She is getting good at that at least. Tough last night she had 6 wakings...yawn! Mostly its just enough for me to pop her pacifier back in, but I could do without it I will give her some leeway while she is ill but after that she must get a grip! :)

Did yo speak to your grandma Kellen? Is it her or your parents who feel you aren't grateful? I Can understand being upset. I don't know you in the "real" world but am sure you are grateful! Xx


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## DragonflyWing

We had a little victory last night! Both babies have not been sleeping well, and waking a lot in the night crying for their pacifiers or a cuddle. Yesterday they were cranky alllll day long. We couldn't get them to settle, and they were still awake at 10pm (Gunnar usually goes to bed around 7, Lily somewhat later). 

Finally, we just put them down in their pack 'n play awake, turned on their sound machine, and rocked the bassinet a little. Within 5 minutes they were both asleep, and slept straight through the night with no wakings! DH said that Gunnar slept until 11:30am! Lily woke up at about 8:30, but she's had two good hour-long naps (she never naps more than 15 minutes at a time) already today! Yay!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so glad things are getting better! It sounds like Saturday was a really rough day :( I hope Teagen's teeth come through soon so you all get a break!

I 3rd how badly it stinks to accidentally hurt your LO. I scratched the back of DD#2's arm terribly when she was tiny, and I think I cried as hard as she did!

It's so interesting to read how everyone's LO's sleep cycles are changing! Won't it be amazing when they all sleep like we do? :) In the meantime, hurray for small victories!!


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## helena

Yay for sleeping babies dragon!!
The waking to put in pacifiers is annoying me...how can I convince her to suck her thumb?! 
I do love the power if the paci though, I swear its why she can put herself to sleep happily. But I do wish she could find it in the night...


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## DragonflyWing

Last night we weren't so lucky. Lily woke up at 4am and screamed the house down for 3 hours. She never went back to sleep and now she's super cranky. Poor Gunnar couldn't sleep with all the screaming, so he's crabby too. DH had to go to a meeting, and I'm working from home...my sister in law was supposed to be here at 9, but she didn't get here until 9:30, so I was a half hour late logging in for work. Fun!


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## helena

Ah good..I'm not too jealous then ;) xx


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## Kellen

DH was in a super pissy mood last night. Reason: I had asked him to take out the trash yesterday morning, and then had the nerve to remind him at 7pm. He then started a stupid passive agressive, "Well, make me a list so I'll know what I have to do during MY time off work. I don't want YOU to become overwhelmed AGAIN." Grrr... All because I said I needed a list of things to help get the company up and running, but haven't started in on yet. Does he have any idea how time consuming it is to take care of an infant, keep a house clean, cook three meals a day and starting next month getting back to work on my Phd? Apologies for the rant, but sometimes men are really stupid.

In baby news I finally found the mobile for the crib and Teagen loves it. She spent 30 minutes in her crib contentedly playing and watching it.

Dragon - Sorry to hear that Miss Lily kept everyone awake. Won't it be nice when the babies all finally make up their minds what their sleep habits are going to be?


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so sorry to hear the twins had a rough night. :( I hope a good nap is on the way and it improves their mood. I often wonder if a poor night's sleep has the same affect on us as adults, but we aren't allowed to fuss and cry all day if _we're_ tired. 

Kellen, did your DH call my DH and ask him how men should behave, because he seems to be copying him! My DH says "I need a list of things to do because I don't know how to clean." Seriously... So I give him a list and show him how to do things and he says "you don't have to talk down to me! I'm an adult and _would_ have cleaned if you didn't feel the need to nit-pick how I do everything." He then refuses to clean. Yup... Men.


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## DragonflyWing

She did it again last night!! :( 

I was up at 4am to pump, and as I was going back to bed, Lily started whining and thrashing around in the basinnet. She had woken Gunnar by grabbing his hand and smacking his head lol. I rocked the pack n' play a little, and she quieted down, although they both still had their eyes open. I got back in bed, but within 20 minutes Lily started screaming again. DH got up with her, and he said she screamed on and off for about an hour before she went back to sleep for an hour or so. 

It's actually funny...they've really started noticing each other and like to hold hands in the crib. If Lily can't reach Gunnar's hand, she'll stretch her arm out as far as she can and scratch the mattress to get his attention. DH said she was chewing on Gunnar's hand this morning when he went to check on them :haha:. We've been so careful to keep their bottles and pacifiers separate so they don't swap germs, but they have other ideas. The other day, Gunnar took his fingers out of his own mouth and shoved them right into Lily's...so much for not sharing germs! :rofl:


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## Kellen

Dragon - Apparently Lily is not a fan of the pump? I know if I try to pump at night in our room when Teagen is sleeping she will wake up. But that is an adorable story about your two little ones starting to realize that they have each other and want to be connected. How precious.

Teagen had her 4 month check up today, and did really well even though she got jabbed. She was 95% for weight (chucky baby at 16lb 8oz) and off the charts for height at 26 1/2 inches. She didn't say a word during her shots until she saw that the assistant was finished and was packing up the tray... then she screamed bloody murder.


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## helena

Loving that they hold hands Dragon! How adorable!!!

To marks go to Kiara this week for consistently going to bed awake between 7 amd 8 and happily dozing off. What a star!
In fact all my kids went to sleep so great tonight that by 8pm I was sitting in the garden enjoying a gin n tonic! :) how grown up!

Haha I am with you girls on the men front. My DH is usually great but today he s mr grump and announced he was going to start to do his own washing....because he couldn't find clean socks and obviously it was my fault. Our washing machine packed up about 10 days ago and I have been hand washing until yesterday when the new machine arrived. I had concentrated on the boys clothes for school, they never went out grubby..and my bg by gets through several tops a day (comes home for lunch and makes a big mess eating), plus with Kiara eating solids she has made a fair amount of washing herself...
But apparently I failed on the sock front..

Luckily he came home and apologized tonight. :)

Wll done Taeagan for not crying during the shots. What a brave girl :)


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- That's wonderful that Teagen is growing so well! And what a little trooper, not even crying from her shots :). I don't think Lily is reacting to the pump, because I pump in a different room, so it shouldn't disturb her with noise or light. In fact, I'm wondering what I'm going to do once we move them into their crib in our bedroom...I think I'm going to have to pump elsewhere, because it's noisy and I can't do it in the dark! As it is, I have to tell DH to shield his eyes when I turn on the light every night. I'm sure he loves that! :haha:

helena- That's so great that the kids went to sleep nicely for you! The night before last, the babies went to sleep at about 8:30, and I sat in our sun room and had a cocktail as well. :) It sure is nice to sit back and relax once in a while, isn't it?


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## wamommy

Helena, adult time in the garden sounds like Heaven!! I'm so glad you get that time to yourself. I must figure out a way to do the same.

Dragonfly, picturing your twins holding hands is SO cute. They are so lucky to have each other. I'm sure it's really hard having 2 babies (I honestly can't imagine) but for the rest of their lives they will have such a close friend. Lucky babies!!

Kellen, WOW, Teagen is a tall girl! I'm glad she tolerated the shots well and that she's healthy :) Max's 4-month appointment is on Monday and I can't wait to see how he's grown. I don't think he's 26 inches though!

I think it's time for a 4 month picture update!! I just love seeing how the babies are growing. Max's weird and patchy hair loss has made 2 funny bald spots on the top of his head (like an old man!) so we've given in to the the naturally-occurring mohawk :haha:
 



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## helena

Oh what a gorgeous cheeky boy Max is! Loving the hair. He is so rock star :)

And adorable chubby arms!


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## Kellen

Awe! That is an adorable photo. He is a very good looking little man.

I thought I'd follow your lead and show an updated of Miss Teagen. She is weirdly cross-eyed in this photo, which is not normal. I blame it on my mom's new iphone that I was playing with while taking pictures. Her hair is finally growing in so she doesn't have the Alfalfa sticky up in back anymore. We have officially moved into 9 month clothing for length.
 



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## wamommy

What a cutie, Kellen! She is so tall! Look at those long arms :) What color are her eyes? I know it's hard to tell for sure at this age. My girls both were born with blue. Now one has hazel, the other bright blue. Max was born with dark, dark brown eyes, so no question there!


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## Kellen

Right now her eyes are steel grey. Apparently my great-grandmother on my dad's mom's side had grey eyes. In the picture all you can see is a slightly bald baby, but her hair is copper colored. My dad's mom is 95 and still has very red hair as does her brother and so did one of my nephews. So I am keeping my fingers crossed for grey eyes and red hair. DH and I both have hazel eyes and super dark hair. It is a good thing that my best friend was out at sea all last year 'cause he has flaming red hair. :haha: DH is not amused when our friend's mention this...


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## helena

Aww Taegen is lovely. Looks a very happy little girl :) 9 months clothes! Great. W are still wearing 3 month pjs here. I realized last night that one pair she had been wearing for aaages! W are 25th percentile for height...

I think we have a red head too. Very hard to tell since we have v little hair, but what there is has a definite red hue in the sunlight. My brother has red hair. I have one boy with blonde hair, one with dark brown and a red haired girl would be lovely :) Kiara's eyes are a grey blue at the moment. 
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_F5D2CDD7.jpg


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## Kellen

My what a happy, cutie you have, Helena. I love her little outfit! We have a nice range of heights for all the babies. Isn't amazing how they all develop completely differently once they are born? At this time last year all our babies were practically the same.


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## wamommy

What a cheerful smile on a beautiful little lady, Helena! We have the same car seat (in blue) :D

It will be so fun to see what color hair comes in for you ladies! My girls had strawberry blonde fuzz for a year and then it came in golden blonde. Max had lovely dark silky hair that has since mostly fallen out. It seems to be coming in a tad lighter, but we'll see.

We have a 4-month check-up tomorrow, so I can't wait to update height and weight! He's in 6-month clothes, so middle of the road, it seems :)


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## helena

I just had a thought - we should change our thread title to Valentines babies 2013! The 2014 class could be in soon :)


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## wamommy

helena said:


> I just had a thought - we should change our thread title to Valentines babies 2013! The 2014 class could be in soon :)

Smart thinking!! Done :)


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## Kellen

Good thinking. It was 1 year and three days ago that we got our BFP.


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## wamommy

Isn't that crazy to think about? Time has sure flown by. Imagine a year from now!! All of our little ones will be running around talking :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

OMG, wamommy, Max is so adorable!

Kellen- what a cutie! I can't believe she's in 9 month clothes already?! Lily still fits in most of her newborn clothes, although she's outgrowing some of them and wears a good amount of 0-3 month outfits now. It's weird, because newborn clothes are supposed to be for 5-8 lbs, and Lily is over 12 lbs! She's a little short, though, and is quite round in the middle hehe. Gunnar is in mostly 0-3 months, but fits in a few 3-6 month outfits. He's much longer than his sister but doesn't have as much of a belly.

helena- I'm surprised K is only at the 25th percentile for height, look at those long legs! She's so very cute :)

Lily and Gunnar still have the same blue eyes they were born with. Anyone know when they reach their permanent color for sure? As for hair, Gunnar's is platinum blonde, but there's not much of it. Lily just has fuzz...not even sure what color it is, it's too short to tell! I think dark blonde, though. I love rubbing their heads, they're so fuzzy lol. I will have to get some new pictures now that they're almost 6 months old.

Good call on the thread title change :D. I also got by BFP one year and 3 days ago. I still remember how shocked I was. Actually, I think I still have the positive test! :haha:


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## wamommy

Don't worry, Dragonfly, I still have my positive tests too! Embarrassingly, they're in a ziploc bag because I have quite a few :blush: After 2 losses I wanted to watch that line get nice and dark!

Our appointment went well today. Max was super tired and really fussy, so I had to convince the Doctor that he really is a mellow guy! He handled the shot like a champ (no crying!) but HATED having his tummy pushed on and cried :( He weighed in at 16 pounds exactly, and 25 inches. The doctor says he's 75th percentile in both, which sounds about right, since all of my babies have been pretty chunky :rofl: I asked why Max has a dark belly button... I've been scrubbing at it wondering why it's brown! The Doctor said it's the 1/4 Japanese, and that babies with darker skin have dark belly buttons. Who knew?? My girls are so fair like I am, so I've never wondered.

We also got Max's first vaccination today (DTaP) which he is handling well thank goodness! I watched him like a hawk for the first hour to make sure he wouldn't react like his sister, and he seems fine. A bit fussy and fidgety, but fine. Phew. :dance:


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## Kellen

I have mine too. Also stored in a ziplock bag. Like you, Wamommy, we got ours after recovering from a loss.

Boo for shots, but huzzah for such a brave little fella. I'm happy to hear that the vaccine doesn't seem to be having any ill affects.

Dragon, I cannot believe that the twins are already 6 months old.

I'm not too surprised that Teagen is tall. Everyone in my family (minus my mom) is substantially tall. We are the short people coming in at 5'6". DH is a tall, lanky fella who is about 6'3". I am hoping Teagen tops out around 5'9" or 10". Any taller and clothes start getting hard to come by.
Right now she has been asleep since 6:30 (almost two hours) and is snuggling with me. Last night she went to bed an hour later than normal and tonight it is an hour earlier. I wish she would make up my mind. lol


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## helena

Yay well doe Max.

Growth spurt alert here. Kiara is gobbling up her solid food like she hasn't been fed anything in weeks and last night was awake between 4 and 5 then up at 6 ready for the day, bright eyed and bushy tailed and full of big smiles (unlike mummy at 6am).

Food wise she has eaten lots of different things now. I started the firstweek or so on plain one ingredient meals but she wasnt keen on savory things... Until yesterday when I started giving her real food. Lunch was a gazpacho type thing with cooked tomatoes, cucumber, onion and garlic, thickened with baby cereals. Then dinner was blended up version of her brothers meal - lentils, fish, tomatoes, broccoli and carrots. She loved them both! 
So I am officially just giving her real tasty food from here on in. It works :)it also ensures I make her brothers proper dinners instead of fish fingers which she can't share (and that my 4 year old wild eat for every meal given the chance)

Don't think I have my test anymore, though I did find a spare IC this morning and it took me right back to the days of desperately looking at a white stick trying to see a line :)


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## wamommy

Helena, the food you cook sounds SO yummy and healthy! I feel like a crap Mom for some of the food I feed my girls :blush: I sometimes do what is easiest, and not necessarily the best health-wise. I shall do better!! 

Kellen, it sounds like Teagen will end up being tall! I'm 5'8", but the only tall woman in my family. Most are around 5'4". The men have all of the height. My Dad is 6'3" and my brother is 6'4". I really like being on the taller side, so I'm hoping that my kids all catch up or pass me by :D

Dragonflywing, I don't remember when my kids reached their final eye color, but I had a pretty good idea by about 4 months, and I think I was certain by a year. I know they can still change for some after that though, so you never know! My daughter had blue eyes until about 6 months and then they turned hazel :shrug: If the twins both have blue eyes right now, they'll probably stay light. I love blue eyes, and used to pray my own eyes would change to blue when I was a kid. The things we find to worry about :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! LOVE the pictures! Such adorable little ones! 

Been having a few rough days lately---I finally called the doctor today---they are supposed to give me a call back---I think Camden has another UTI, but can't be sure unless they test again. :( Poor little guy. . . :(

On another note---has anyone else not gotten their period back yet? I'm supposed to have an MRI soon but they need it to be during your menstrual cycle. . .which I have no idea when that will come back! 

Anyways... .Here's a picture of Camden the other day, playing with "Mr. Turtle". :)
 



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## DragonflyWing

Awww, what an adorable picture of Camden! I'm sorry to hear he's not feeling well :(

My period came back pretty much right away, so I'm no help there. Speaking of that, I'm starting to suspect that my postpartum depression symptoms are tied to my menstrual cycle. I've noticed two months in a row that the week leading up to it, I feel AWFUL, but then I feel almost completely normal as soon as my period starts. I feel ok for a week or two, then it starts over again.

I'm so disappointed...I've gained 10 pounds! I got a little too crazy with the junk food, and I rationalized it by telling myself that pumping 50 oz of breast milk was burning 1000 calories a day, so I could eat whatever I want. Apparently not true! I was on Weight Watchers before I got pregnant, and had lost about 55 lbs. I think it's time to get back on that wagon.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Dragon! 

At least you can predict the depression a bit.. if nothing else!!

I have been justifying junk food lately too which hasn't made me gain weight but has prevented me from losing the rest of the baby weight... you'd think we'd not have to worry about weight with breastfeeding! Huh!


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## wamommy

Sierra, Camden is so cute! What big eyes. I love the outfit AND the turtle :) I'm so sorry to hear he is in pain again. Poor guy! I really hope they figure out what's causing it.

As for AF, I thought mine had returned on May 24th (the irony of 1-year to the day post-conception was funny to me) but it only lasted 2 days and was SUPER light. A week and a half later she was back for 1.5 days, again super light, and then gone again. What the heck? I guess I'm not back to normal like I'd hoped :( 

DragonflyWing, maybe you've developed Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder? That would make so much sense, and in a way it would be awesome just to figure it out so that they could help you! I'm glad that at least you get a couple of weeks of normality. How's it going with the appointment?

As for weight loss, I still have a lingering 10 pounds to lose but have yet to find the motivation to crack down on my diet. I tend to feel like I "earned" treats because I don't sleep or because I just cleaned the whole house, etc. One of these days I'll get around to the last 10 :blush: It doesn't feel good when DH suggests he buy a NutraSystems box for me to help me lose weight.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Wamommy- 10 pounds isn't bad- Dh should realize that! Men! Mine chuckles a bit when I bend over and that extra skin bunches out of my shirt... Grrrr. I'm doing this June ab workout challenge right now. It's kicking my butt. If it doesn't work, I'm giving up! Lol I'm only 7 pounds from pre-pregnancy so I figure I can live with it if needs be! Lol maybe... haha


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## SierraJourney

Oh and I'm taking Camden in to see the dr in an hour... hoping for some answers!


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## helena

I am 4 kilos (8.8lbs?) above my pre regnancy weight. It n snt shifting, though tbh I haven't tried yet. Lts of pizza here still....but I have kept a further 4 kilos from my previous baby too...so 8 to go...one day. Lie, you wamommy I feel I deserve treats...after all our babies are only 4 months ish.plenty of time when they are sleeping all through the night! 

Life is too short..Xxx


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## helena

I got my period back this week Sierra. Urgh. Bt it was when I stopped breastfeeding. I think usually it is when you drop night feeds to go 8 hours between feeds?...

Oh wamommy, the food on that day was healthy. More often than not my middle boy wants plain pasta and my big boy wants chips and fish fingers ..and I often go for the easier option too I must say...sometimes it is just about getting calories into them.

Xx


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## Kellen

No AF here... yet. All this week I've been crampy and moody, but no physical sign of it yet.

Camden looks like a little charmer. I am very sorry to hear that he isn't feeling well again. I hope the doctors can help figure it all out. He looks very pleased with his turtle.

I have a friend who has a little boy who was born the same day as Teagen (she was also due 2/13/13) who just found out that she is 2 months pregnant. She also has a three year old. She is a much braver person than me. I'm glad that DH and I agreed that BF and it's "98% effectiveness" as BC was not good enough. If we have another LO we have agreed that it will be after Teagen starts to potty train.

6-8lb to go for pre-pregnancy weight here. But my diet has been chalked full of pizza, pasta, chips and sweets so I don't feel too bad. Now that it is summer and we have a garden it is slowly improving. I fit my pre-pregnancy size 4 jeans so I'm good. I noticed that my biceps are building up from lifting a 16lb baby. Now just to get my abs back... Later, when I'm less tired.

My parents have decided to gift us with swimming lessons for Teagen. A local gym/club here starts infant swim lessons at 6 months. I'm pretty excited about this.


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## DragonflyWing

Some pictures I thought I'd share :flower:
 



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## Kellen

Dragon - Thank you for sharing those beautiful pictures. I love the one with the twins looking at each other. They are beginning to look so grown up!

Tomorrow will be an adventure. I have a fairly decent freezer stash built up and I'll be giving around 30oz to a mom in need. She has an adopted little girl who is unable to process formula. I am pretty excited to be able to help a family in need.


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## wamommy

Oh my, the twins are too adorable! They seem to have a really similar profile. I also love the pic of them looking at each other. I know I've said it before, but they are so lucky to have each other!! They will never be bored or lonely.

Kellen, that is so awesome that you're donating some of your stash to help a mom in need. I admire that so much, and am admittedly a bit jealous! I think I'm about ready to throw in the towel with nursing/pumping. I've been struggling with decreased supply for a few weeks, and am now down to 4 ounces a day :( My right nipple looks like someone tried to saw it off with a butter knife and I want to scream every time the pump goes on. I find myself dreading pumping sessions so much that I start to get physically sick. My 3-year-old even said the other day "I don't want to be a Mommy." I said, "why not?" Too which she answered, "because I don't want my boobs to be so owie." :( At some point I feel like there are diminishing returns and I should just stop and enjoy my fat little formula-fed baby :shrug: 

What are all of your plans for Father's Day?


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## helena

If its any consolation wamommy my paediatrician said 4 months was great since I have two other kiddos to look after too. She didnt think I should feel guilty about stopping. That helped me, I thought she would disapprove! 

I do miss the closeness of breastfeeding but quite enjoy a bit more freedom.

** just corrected my typos, I am so bad on the iPad! Apologies **


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## DragonflyWing

The twins do have very similar profiles! They have identical noses, so they look a lot more similar from the side than the front (they have totally different eyes and mouths).

I just realized this morning that father's day is this weekend! I have no idea what to do for DH! He's SO hard to get gifts for, because he doesn't want anything. He actually dislikes receiving gifts, especially if I spend money on them. He doesn't even want time to himself...for his birthday in April, I offered to watch the babies while he went out and did whatever he wanted, and he said no. He preferred to be home with us, and apparently doesn't crave any alone time. I'm not sure what that's like, I always want to have some time alone! :haha:

Anyone have any suggestions for what I can get/do for him? What are you doing for Father's day?


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## Kellen

DH is working on Father's Day, but gets his birthday off next Friday. I am going to bake him a cheesecake. It is his favorite dessert and I don't make it for him very often. Other than that I have cards from both Teagen and I commemorating his first Father's Day. I will also be getting him a book on the Kindle that he's been talking about non-stop for the past week.

Wamommy - You have given Max an amazing gift by persevering this long. I don't know if I would have had the courage and strength to continue for as long as you have. If you are beginning to hate the pump and dread it then I would say go ahead and enjoy snuggles with your beautiful, healthy formula baby and dispense with the pain.

It was always our plan to donate our extra milk whenever Teagen began to wean herself. However, we did not plan to do it this early. But I'm on a FB group that allows mommies in need to post and ask for help with milk. I had seen a post by this lady earlier, but figured that someone else would be able to step up and if the need was still there later we would help. However, she posted twice yesterday and seemed to be becoming increasingly desperate. DH and I talked it over and decided that since we could help, we would. 
Every day I feel so blessed that I am able to nurse Teagen. Each time she latches it seems like a minor miracle to me. My mom wasn't able to BF me due to issues with supply and no support, and it still bothers her to this day. Being able to see Teagen grow and flourish is nothing short of amazing. I feel blessed that this family is giving us the opportunity to contribute to their little girl's development.

Dragon - He doesn't want alone time? I agree with you... that would be the best gift of all.


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## helena

Kiara and I packing for her second trip to the UK to visit my fmily tomorrow. Hoping she screams less this time on board..

Feeling anxious about going back. As much as I can't wait to see everyone and show off the baby it is a stressful time, seeing mum so changed. 
As sad as mum and dad may be right now I am sure Kiara will cheer them up though. She is so full of smiles now, no one can resist a baby grin and big wide eyes. We don't have to try hard at all to get her grinning now. I love that.

Since I am away ad DH will be at home with our boys, DH wil be getting very little for Father's Day...will probably buy him some of his favourite English chocolate and bring it back for him on Monday.


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## Kim2012

I usually read the posts. No time to reply or post. Today os the first day i have had to have some 'me time' since going back to work!!going back to work sucks!!!DH has the kids and am sitting here with my first glass of wine mmmm feels good. Feel normal again


Georgeous pic of babies!! They have grown to think we are already on the 4 th month since their births!!Briana's eczma is much better i bet having a bit of sun in the uk is helping as well. 
Brianna has started on baby cereals and ... She loves it. I guess you can never overfeed an infant but i am alarmed at the way she is eating. She is growing chubbier by the day.....here she is
 



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## wamommy

I don't think we are doing anything special for Father's Day here either. My Mother's Day was pretty awful (thanks to DH) so I don't think he expects me to put on a big show. We'll probably go out to eat and I'll have the girls make him a card. Other than that, not much!

Thank you ladies for the support in quitting breastfeeding. I feel quite guilty about it, but also proud that we've come so far. I'm secretly more than a little excited to pack up the pump and put it in the closet :)

Helena, I hope your trip to see your Mom goes well. I know it's so terribly hard, but I hope Kiara is able to lighten the mood and bring everyone joy in a difficult time. It's great that you're able to go see her, though, because I'm sure it means the world to her.

Kim, glad to see you have some time to yourself to relax! Brianna isn't too chubby at all, I'd say just right :) So cute!


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## helena

Thanks wamommy. I am so nervous of how things will be..

Oh Brianna is adorable!


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## Kellen

Kim - She is such a cutie, and looks so very grown up. Hooray for a glass of wine and feeling normal. I am pleased to see and hear that she is doing so well.

Helena - I hope for your sake and Kiara's that the plane trip is less stressful. I am glad that you get to go visit your mom again. I can't even begin to fathom how terrible this separation must be.

We are having a bit of the dreaded 4 month sleep regression here the past two nights. Teagen has been much too busy during the day to nurse properly except during naps. I think she is also experiencing a growth spurt that is causing her to be more hungry at night. Two weeks ago we made the bed safe for co-sleeping so thankfully it isn't costing us too much sleep. Also her teeth seem to be a bother again. I wish the darn things would just pop through already.

At our 4 month check up our pediatrician told us to wait until 6 months to start introducing solids. Well, today Teagen thieved a large strawberry from my plate during lunch and started sucking on it. I think she's ready to be introduced to some real food. We're going to get the baby-safe mesh bags and let her chew/suck on some fresh fruits or veggies from the garden.


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## wamommy

Kellen, those mesh bags on a stick are amazing. We used it mostly for teething. Try a frozen banana inside! :D


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## Kellen

Awesome! It is on my to-do list tomorrow. Along with going to the Saturday morning growers market. I'll see if I can pick up some nice local fruits for her to nosh on.


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## Kim2012

Kellen we are having a combination of sleep regression, growth spurt and 4 mnth immunisations ahhhh its a recipe for disaster when it comes to sleep. I normally breastfeed only during the night but i have had to supplement with formula because she is using breast to soothe herself and she is on it the whole night. I have had to completely remove the dropside of the cotbed to make it better for night feeds

Helena hope your journey to see your mum isnt too stressful. Am sure Kiara will make cheerful moments with a smile. Just treasure those moments with her and your mum


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## Kellen

Last night was good. She slept from 8:30pm to 5:30am, and then again from 5:30am to 8:00am. I think the trick was DH had been putting her on her side because that is how he would pick her up from the bed, then she would accidentally flip onto her tummy, scare herself and wake up. So last night I positioned her hips so that if she rolled it would on to her back. Worked like a charm!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hi everyone. Have been reading back but not managed to reply! We have started weaning jade though shes having a ww grumpy weekend with teeth and what not xx


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen said:


> Dragon - He doesn't want alone time? I agree with you... that would be the best gift of all.

I know, isn't that weird? Especially since he always valued his alone time before the twins were born. I treasure every moment I have to myself, but I haven't gotten much lately because DH has even started following me into the bedroom to talk to me while I pump. Come on, DH, that's the only alone time I have! :haha:

We're having some sleep regression with Gunnar- For the past 2 months, he's been sleeping consistently 10-12 hours at night without waking. He goes to bed between 7 and 8, and usually wakes up around 7am. Lily goes to bed between 8 and 9, and usually wakes up at the same time as him.

For the past week or so, Gunnar has been waking up sometime between 4 and 5am, and he lays there moaning and yelling (not crying or upset at all). When we check on him, he's completely wide awake and wanting to play, and nothing we do can get him back to sleep. Eventually he takes a bottle, and goes back down for a long nap, but he's awake for an hour or more before he even wants to eat. The worst part is that he's so loud that he's been waking up Lily as well...and she's super pissed because she hates waking up before she's ready. So she's all cranky and whiny at the same time as he's bright eyed and smiley, thinking it's time to get up. :nope:

Silly DH keeps staying up to all hours of the night working on the computer, so he's usually still awake when Gunnar starts his shenanigans...which means DH gets no sleep AT ALL. This whole weekend, he felt like crap because he's been getting next to no sleep. I keep telling him that he needs to go to bed at the same time I do, so he's had at least 6 hours of sleep by the time the babies wake up...but he says he has too much work to do and he can't. He doesn't seem to understand that he's not going to get any work done at all if he's completely burned out.

On Sunday, Gunnar got up at 4:30am and woke up Lily with his "singing," and DH and I took turns trying to get them either back to sleep or quiet enough to give us a little more sleep ourselves...I ended up getting up at 6am (I hadn't gone to bed until 1am) because DH was so frazzled that he was almost yelling at the babies, which of course was making them even more upset. I sent DH to bed and he slept until 1pm! Happy Father's day :haha:


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## wamommy

I'm sorry to hear there's some sleep regression going on! :( At least it's supposed to last only a couple of weeks, right? I hope so, for you guys' sake. It sounds like Teagen is coming out of it, and hopefully Gunnar follows suit!

Max is on a schedule that (for me) is pretty good right now. He goes to sleep around 9pm and sleeps until 1:00am when he wakes up for an hour to play before eating and going back to bed. He sleeps again until 4am, eats and goes back to sleep. He wakes for the day at 6am. DH takes him at 8am so I can go back to bed for an hour or 2. If I actually went to bed at 10pm I would get way more sleep! Like your DH, DragonflyWing, I treasure that quiet night time when all of the kids are asleep, since it's the only time I can get anything done. I tend to stay up WAY too late (1-2am), and then wonder why I'm so tired :haha:

Midnight_fairy, glad to see you're doing well :D Another teether? Poor Jade. I hope it passes quickly!


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## Midnight_Fairy

Sleep regression here too. Bahh!


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## DragonflyWing

I have mastitis again :( 

It's in the exact same place as last time, and it's only been 2 weeks since I finished the antibiotics, so I'm thinking the original infection wasn't entirely eliminated. Woke up in the middle of the night with a fever, major pain and tenderness in the breast, and terrible body aches. I took some ibuprofen, which must have broken the fever, because I woke up again, this time completely drenched in sweat. I had to get up and change the sheets, pillowcases, and my nightgown because it was all soaked. Gross.

Now I'm going to have to take more time off work to go to the doctor :growlmad:

In happier news- the twins are 6 months old today! :cloud9:


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon! I'm sorry! That's awful! Can't the dr just call in the antibiotic for you so you don't have to take off work? My dr will do that sometimes. I hope it gets better soon!!

Happy half birthday Lily and Gunner!


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry about the mastitis, Dragon :( I hope the Dr can just call it in. What a pain!

Happy 6 months, Lily and Gunnar! Wow, how time flies!!!

I'm going to cut off my hair. I'm really going to do it this time. I'm not going to chicken out!! I'm going shoulder length and cutting long, side-swept bangs. I'm terrified. I've had hair almost to my waist for a few years now. When I was 21 I went on a tv show where they did a makeover and cut my hair shoulder-length. Looking back, it was so much more flattering! I've been hiding behind my hair for way too long. Is it terribly obvious that I'm still trying to talk myself into it? :haha:


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## helena

Go for it wamommy!! I bet shorter will be slightly more glam.

I am continuously cutting and regrowng my hair alternately. Snce i was about 20. Lol. i just cant find my true style.
am currently in the re growing phase. Mine isn't even down to my shoulders, its a short ish bob. 

I want a before and after pic please :)


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks ladies. The doctor wouldn't call in a prescription because she was afraid I had developed an abscess, or that I had a resistant form of bacteria. This time is quite a bit worse than last time; my fever shot up to 102, and the red area of my breast was twice as big (14cm across). The doctor gave me an antibiotic injection, which hurt like hell... and I have to go back tomorrow to make sure it's improving. If not, I may need IV antibiotics. Meanwhile, I'm just laying in bed because I'm too weak to do much. *sigh*


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## Kellen

Awe, Dragon that sounds awful. I pray you get to feeling better soon and that the antibiotic shot really did the trick for you. I hope you don't miss too much work because of this.

Wamommy - I'm a short hair junkie. The longest I can stand to grow my hair out is barely to my chin. Like Helena said I think you'll look awesome and glam once you cut it. We will need pictorial evidence however...

We finally went and got our new driver's licenses today. Okay, I got mine but DH missed passing the written test by a single question :haha: I shouldn't laugh, but it amuses me. Tomorrow he gets to go back and pay $5 to take it again.


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## DragonflyWing

I feel a little better today, but still not great. I went back to the doctor and they gave me another shot of antibiotics and did more blood work. My white blood cell count is much lower today, which is good. I have to go back again tomorrow morning for another shot and possibly an ultrasound to make sure there isn't an abscess.


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing, I'm so sorry :hugs: I hope the shots do the trick and that you feel better. I'm honestly a bit annoyed at Lady Luck for handing you this infection! It isn't fair, given the other struggles you have going on right now. :(

Lol about your DH failing the driving test, Kellen! I would find it funny, too :haha: When I was a teenager I moved to California briefly and failed their driving test by one question. Down there they used to make you wait 2 weeks to take it again if you failed! Now _that_ would probably irritate him!

DH made plans for today so he can't take the kids while I get my hair cut! Grrr... IT was a mother's day present that I have yet to redeem. I'm thinking it's going to have to be Monday now, because the salon is always booked on weekends. Ah well, it will give me a chance to take some good "before" pics :D


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Oddly enough when DH moved to California to be with me (during our engagement) he passed the test there. However, I missed my CA driver's test by one when I turned 16. I was rather ticked off at myself.

Dragon - At least they are trying to rule out any possible cause. Have you heard anymore from the psychologist or are you still on the wait list?

Sierra - How is Camden doing? Last I remember you thought the poor little guy might have another UTI.

Today we are moving... again. However, we are only moving 100 yards away and into the RV. My mom has bad knees and is in the process of getting a referral for a replacement. Offhand I mentioned that if they needed to move into the house bedroom after the surgery we would swap houses with them. My parents liked the idea so much that we are permanently switching. So I get my own house (albiet rather tiny).


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks, wamommy...I would much rather have mastitis than the postpartum depression. :haha: As painful as it is, and as yucky as I feel, I'd still pick that if I had a choice between the two. I haven't been feeling too down lately (most of the time), so I'm dealing with it fairly well.

Kellen- my appointment is on the 25th, so just a few days to go.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks for asking Kellen--it's been a rollercoaster for us here. Camden's uti test came back normal (hooray!), but his symptoms are persisting and have even gotten worse (one of the symptoms is that he pees all of the time---today alone, he has had 6 SOAKED diapers in 2 hours!). He's on another antibiotic because the dr thinks there is an infection somewhere, but they don't know where. So, they're seeing if the antibiotic helps. They're giving him over the weekend to see. And on top of that, he got immunizations on Wednesday . . . poor little dude. :( So, it's been a bit rough. . . but I love that little guy!


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- have the doctors checked for diabetes insipidus? I only ask because my sister has that, and her main symptom is peeing a LOT. Although it sounds like diabetes mellitus, it's completely unrelated. It's caused by either a lack of antidiuretic hormone (ADH), or a problem in the way the kidneys respond to ADH. It's pretty easily treated with daily medication.

In any case, I hope they find out what's wrong so little Camden can get some relief!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Dragon! They haven't checked for that, but I've been doing researching today and wondering if I should bring that up on Monday when I speak with them. The internet seems to say that with his symptoms it's either UTI or diabetes. . .since UTI has been ruled out, I'm curious about diabetes! I'll ask them when I call on Monday. Thank you!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I hope you get some answers! Poor little Camden, and poor you! I don't know much about diabetes, but if whatever is going on can be fixed with medication, yay! Hang in there, Sierra :hugs:

Kellen, the RV sounds like a good fit for you guys. From what you've said before, your grandma (and you and DH) would probably benefit from a little privacy when you feel the need.

I've stopped pumping as of yesterday and am now terribly engorged... wth? I can't produce more than 3 ounces a day, yet in 36 hours of not pumping I am miserable? Did this happen to you, Helena? I'm tempted to pump to get some relief, but that won't solve it in its eventuality. Hmph.


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## Kellen

I've heard/read that frozen cabbage leaves will help with engorgement.

Sierra- I hope they are able to figure it out. It would be hard if it is diabetes, but at least you'd be able to treat it and give the poor baby some relief.

Today is DH's birthday. And I am pissed. The long and short of it is: It is almost 11pm and I'm home alone with the baby. His co-workers wanted to take him out for some drinks. Cool. I went for 2 hours until my mom texted me to let me know Teagen needed me. Before Teagen was born DH had said that once she was born he wouldn't go out anymore. He also says that if I need help to ask. I asked for help at 9:30... an hour later got a text back saying he'll be home soon. Yep, just a wee bit frustrated right now.


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## DragonflyWing

Just to clarify what I meant, diabetes insipidus is a different condition than what everyone thinks of when you say diabetes ( diabetes mellitus). Diabetes insipidus has nothing to do with insulin or blood sugar. So while I certainly hope he doesn't have either one, diabetes insipidus would be the much less serious of the two.


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## DragonflyWing

Happy babies!
 



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## SierraJourney

So beautiful Dragon!


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## wamommy

Oh my goodness, Dragon, how cute!! What bright and cheerful faces :)

I'm of to cut my hair!! I'm getting nervous, but will post before and after pics soon. Yikes!

How is everyone else doing?


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## SierraJourney

Can't wait to see pictures wamommy! Have fun!!

I'm so frustrated, ladies. . . Camden had another urinalyis today.. it came back NORMAL--which is GREAT. However, his urine still smells, he's peeing all of the time, he crieds when he pees sometimes. . .I just feel like something is wrong. . .maybe the diabetes. However, when I asked my doctor if there is something else to do, they just said that the urine results came back normal so everything is okay. 

Maybe I'm paranoid, but shouldn't they try checking his blood levels or something else? I mean, what if the urine symptoms are simply a symptom of something ELSE---NOT a UTI at all? Why wouldn't they check other things? 

Or should I just trust them and let it go? It just doesn't seem right to me. . .

They said it could be something I'm eating, but literally, I eat the SAME things all week long. . .nothing changes. . .I'm very much a creature of habit. I would know if I ate something out of the ordinary. . but I haven't. 

I'm so frustrated because on one hand, I really really want everything to be okay and to just move on---and I'm worried that I'm just extra paranoid and I should just believe the doctors. But on the other hand, I don't want to ignore something and my son have something seriously wrong with him. I mean, he had a temp of 99.8 (which isn't too high but still higher than his "normal") for a few weeks before they just put him on antibiotics "just in case he had a uti". With the antibiotics, his temp dropped to his normal of 98.7. Wouldn't that suggest that there's something going on?

Also, at his last checkup, we found out that for height and weight, he dropped from 75th percentile (which he has been since birth), to 25th percentile!! So, I'm worried he's not growing like he should and that they are connected somehow. 

But I don't know what to do. . .I call the doctor every week on him, it seems. . .but they just take the urine sample and tell me it's okay. 

Should I just give up?


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## helena

Sierra, is there another doc you could see for a second opinion? To help your worries?

Can't wait for pics wamommy!!

We just got back from camping for 2 nights, Kiara was a star! It was posh camping - tent already set up, had beds in it. Even a fridge! But still a tent, and Kiara slept great. So happy with her. Bg bigger boys however we up at 6 with the birds....yaaaawn... :)


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## helena

Hope your are less engorged wamommy. I had hardly any, maybe a bit for one day but hardly noticed...I remember how uncomfy it is though. Poor you xx


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## wamommy

Sierra, I would follow your instincts and get a second opinion. No one knows Camden like you do, and if you think something is wrong then I would keep pursuing answers. I just wish someone could help you two. Poor guy :(

Helena, the engorgement got bad enough that I pumped a tiny bit, just to take the edge off, and then it never really came back. Yay! I think I'm past it now.

The hair cut went well! I like it, but my 5-year-old cried when she saw it and said "you don't look like my Mama anymore!" I felt awful. Hopefully she'll get used to it. 

I don't have the best pictures... but you can get the idea. Don't mind the tired eyes :haha:
 



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## SierraJourney

wamommy---you look terrific!! I love it!! Sad about your 5 year old---I'm sure she will get used to it, though--what a sweetie!

I'm not even sure where to get a second opinion---there are two doctors in the practice that sees Camden. . .so I can't go to the other doctor without making things super awkward. The other pediatrician in town is one that my younger sister's daughter went to and they hated her. . . My other thought is a specialist at the university hospital, but I don't even know what kind of specialist to get---urologist? But the kidneys, bladder, and urinary tract all seemed fine on the ultrasounds. . . All of that, and DH isn't convinced something is wrong, so it's hard when I don't have him wanting a second opinion too. I'm wondering if I should just wait and see if the temperature comes back after he's done with his current antibiotics. . .then pursue it again if it does... *sigh* Thanks ladies for listening to me! :flower:


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## helena

That soudns like a plan Seirra. I think maybe wait and see how he goes if a second opinion isnt possible...and i dont know how things work there but usually we need to be refered to a specialist i think.
Maybe see how his growth carries on?
I know its a worry. Deciding when to call in the medics is one of the hardest parts of being a mum I say...I just don't always feel grown up enough..I feel I still want to ask my mum! (And I am 35...must grow up soon..)

Wamommy you look fab!! Oh yes. Love it shorter. it is so sophisticated and glam. Oh I want a haircut now. And you don't look tired on my screen. Just lovely.
I must get a haircut...though DH just told me we are on economy drive for the next month so looks like I must wait..le specially since I had already planned to go out with some girlfriends on friday, for the first time since Kiara was born, and I am in no way canceling that! :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks helena! Going out with your girlfriends sounds amazing!! Oooh I hope you have so much fun!


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## wamommy

A ladies' night sounds so fun! You definitely shouldn't cancel it, and I hope it's a blast!

Sierra, maybe waiting and seeing is the right approach, I don't know! Like Helena said, knowing when to call the Doc is one of the hardest things. I still call my Mom for advice, too!


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## Kellen

Hey gals.

Sierra - I hope Camden gets to feeling better. If you still think something is hinky, keep pushing.

Wamommy - Your hair looks great! Sorry to hear that your 5 year old wasn't immediately into it. I remember when my mom got contacts instead of glasses when I was around the same age... she just looked weird for a couple of days.

Helena - Hooray for posh camping! It sounds like you had a great time. The evening with your girlfriends sounds fun too.

DH and I had a huge fight on his birthday. He had promised to be home sometime around 10 or a little after. As it approached midnight and I couldn't get a hold of him I sent him a rather snarky text asking if he even cared that he was ditching his family responsibilities. This led to a rather drunk DH coming home and yelling for 3 hours and telling me we were getting a divorce. With that behavior I said do what you want. He also stormed into the house, woke my parents and grandma up, and thought about driving away on his motorcycle.
Well, things have calmed down a little bit. He apologized to me, but is still angry (why?) at my parents and grandma for calling him out as being drunk. His words: "There is a difference between being drunk and being angry. I was angry." Given I could smell tequila from across the room... Then my dad had the audacity to ask DH to help move the new freezer from the barn to the garage. A task DH had volunteered to help with mere days before. Now he is sulking around and muttering about being a good little boy/slave/son-in-law. I just want to smack him!
I have honestly never seen his behavior be this bad. He needs to realize that my family sees him as a son and only wants to help.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so sorry about the fight you had with DH :( That is NO fun, and I hope it gets better. I'm sure it adds to an already tough situation that your parents and grandma are involved as well. I hope he snaps out of it, though... because having a fight is bad enough, but moping around about it afterward doesn't help anything!

Thank you all for your kind words about my hair! I'm trying to do anything to make myself feel better about my looks lately. I've felt SO down as wrinkles start to pop up and the last 8 pounds just don't want to budge. I'm feeling every bit of 34 (and not in a good way).


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## helena

I have definitely aged since having Kiara. Wrinkles, super dry skin, crap hair, greying..Urgh.


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## DragonflyWing

Same here...my skin and hair have suffered since the babies were born. Some of it is stress, but most of it is simply not having the time to take care of myself.

Had my psychiatrist appointment on Tuesday...it went ok, and he put me on an antidepressant. We'll see how it goes.


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## helena

Good luck with that dragon xx I suffered depression when I was about 20 and was on servant (paroxetine) for a few months. Helped me a lot :)

I hate rowing with DH..hope it all settles soon Kellen x

Kiara has been spoilt recently. Se had her first baby yogurt the other day..loved it! Ten today was her first finger food - a baby biscuit suitable for 5 months plus. Is hard so she can hold it but goes very mushy once in her mouth. Oh my word, she loved it! When she couldn't quite get it in her mouth and I took it off her to feed her it she cried and screamed like I had stolen it! Hehe. Se is definitely going to be a child who looooves biscuits! It's nice to have something I can give her as a treat already :)


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so glad they saw you! I really hope the meds help. :hugs:

We're dropping the girls off at a family friend's house this afternoon so that DH and I can go out to a nice, quiet lunch. To be honest, it's actually because the kids LOVE this friend and have a blast at her house. The time would be better spent cleaning my house, but oh well. I've already told DH that I'm renting a UHaul and tossing half of our belongings... I'm that sick of clutter! :haha:


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## Kellen

Dragon - I am glad to hear that your appointment went okay. I hope that the medication provides you with some relief.

Helena - Kiara sounds like quite the firecracker! That is cute that she already loves her treats. I'll have to look for some of those (or something similar) when Teagen gets big enough to start eating that sort of thing.

Wamommy - It feels great to get rid of stuff. We got rid of tons of junk when we moved across country... and I did another clean out when we moved from the house to the RV. I'm glad that you and your DH get to have a little alone time. It is important.

DH and I are back to normal and I told him his attitude recently has stunk and it all just came to ahead. He had a tooth pulled today and is now in bed sleeping. I don't think we'll be making our motorcycle club meeting tonight...
Yesterday Teagen was introduced to cucumber slices. I held them for her, but she chowed down on two of them. Last night's poop was interesting to say the least. Today she gnawed on some cauliflower at lunch. DH is very insistent that if she doesn't like a veggie I am not to force it on her (he will not eat veggies...). So far she has loved all the fresh foods we have tried. She cried when I put them away.
We also got her a miniature wading pool. My mom had gotten her a swim suite a couple of months ago... it was too small so she got to go skinny dipping and loved it! She in the middle of the pool and kicked her legs and waved her arms and got all the adoring adults wet.


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## helena

Glad Teagen is enjoying her food too :) it's fun isn't it. I read tht it can take several exposures to a taste for baby to like something sometimes so I will keep on trying carrot!..Kiara just had breakfast - baby semolina /porridge with banana then some apple purée. Then a lunge and suck on my bread. Cheeky.

Bet Tagen was adorable in the water, splashing :) Kiara went in a pool for first time last weekend. All eyes were on her, she still looks so small. I was proud :) 
In fact someone said this week she s so small for 5 months old. Another person couldn't believe she was on solids already. I think the lack of hair confuses people too :)

Glad all is normal again with DH Kellen xx


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## DragonflyWing

Ladies with toddlers/young children in addition to babies...do you ever find that your older kids are intentionally rough with the baby? Recently several of the twins' cousins have visted- ranging in age from 1-6 years old. The 5 and 6 year old weren't quite as bad, but the 2 and 3 year olds kept trying to hurt the babies! They made it look like playing, but I caught one sticking his finger in Lily's eye, another one "beeped" her nose over and over so hard that her poor little nose was bright red, another came over and tickled the babies, but she was so rough that they both started wailing (I tickle them all the time and they love it, so she must have really poked them hard). Yesterday, my 2.5 year old neice came over to see the babies for the first time, and all she did was rip their toys out of their hands and make them cry. I stepped into the kitchen for a minute at one point, and realized that my neice was alone in the living room with Lily...so I ran back into the room to find her pinching the baby! What the hell?

Also, their parents weren't doing anything to stop them.


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## SierraJourney

I don't have older children, but I have 2 neices--one 4 and the other almost 2. The 4 year old is a bit rough but doesn't mean to be. . .she loves Camden so much. The 2 year old is EXTREMELY jealous of the baby and all of the attention he gets. . .so she tends to be more "mean"--but I think it's just purely out of jealousy. Poor kiddo had been the baby for so long and now Camden has taken her place. . .

Also, I know that the parents seem to be less likely to do anything about it and I have to intervene. I think they are used to their kids' actions, but it puts me on pins and needles because it's around my baby.

How much does everyone's LO's weigh now?

Camden is 13lbs, 2 oz--at times he feels super heavy, but I still think he looks like a little peanut. :)


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## Kellen

At our last ped appointment a month ago Teagen was 16lb 8oz, she had gained 2lb that month. I haven't stepped on the scales with her recently, but going with that trend I think she must be close to 18 or 19lb. She is very solid and in 9-12mo clothes.

So far all the nieces and nephews we've been around have been fascinated by the baby. Given their ages are 4-20+ so it is a bit different.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness! Teagan is a grower! Soooo cute! Camden's went down in the weight percentile, so that's why I'm curious--to see what other babies are at at this age.


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## Kellen

My mom found her baby book today while we were cleaning out the barn. She was due the same time as our babies, but ended up being born Dec 29th. At 5 months she was 13lb. Since it was the 50's she had never heard of adjusted age and was shocked that she didn't start solids until 8 months. It was an interesting perspective.


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## wamommy

Dragon, my girls can be too rough from time to time. Sometimes playful tickling or head rubbing becomes way too rough and Max cries. The 5-year-old is much better at playing gently, but my 3-year-old seems to be really conflicted. It's like, she loves him SO much, but every once in a while she gets a spike of jealousy (she was the baby too) and almost unintentionally makes Max uncomfortable. She never hurts him though, like the pinching. I would certainly intervene if that happened. It's weird that their parents don't say anything. I would talk to the parents, since ultimately they should be helping teach the kids. I don't think little ones that age are intentionally mean, it's just that they have no filter for emotions like jealousy and it's a great opportunity for the kids to learn. That said, if the parents did nothing I would step in and protect the babies.

Sierra, Max was 16 pounds at his 4-month check-up, so I imagine about 17 or 18 now? He's quite a chunk, though. I don't worry too much about percentiles, because I was SUPER fat as a baby... like off-the-charts fat. Once I started walking it all worked out. DH was tiny as a baby, and is now...ahem...a bit rotund. If your ped isn't concerned about Camden's weight, I wouldn't worry (easier said than done!).


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## Kellen

And in other news... AF made a surprise return today. No wonder I've been cranky.


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## helena

My doc told me that kids often don't get compassion or empathy until they are around 7. So when they pinch the baby they dont understand it hurts and makes them sad. They just can't imagine how their actions make baby feel. 
My eldest is good with baby 90% of the time. My almost 3 yr old is good half the time... But also seems to try and hurt baby.i think they are interested in the reaction. If I squeeze baby makes loud noise and mummy gets in a flap...

Funnily enough it is my rough boy that Kiara gives the biggest grins.

I would maybe just say "ooh gentle now, that made her cry, it hurt her" to the kids and hopefully the parents will pick up on it..
Unless there is a definite real major danger I try and not go OTT since its no ones fault, no malice meant. And Kiara will be tougher for it. It's just a case of not leaving them alone, as you found, and repeating the message over and over to the kids... I think it's a universal curiosity for kids and babies. Wait until the babies are bigger and greet friends with a big wallop to the face..


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## helena

Ps. I was out eating pizza and chatting with friends and drinking beer util 11.30! Get me! ;)


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## DragonflyWing

When we last weighed the babies about a week ago, Gunnar was 16 pounds, and Lily was 13 pounds. He is very tall and has big fat thighs lol, and she is pretty tiny but has a big froggy belly. They have their 6 month checkup on Wednesday, so we'll see where they are on the charts.

Gunnar rolled over for the first time last week, and Lily laughed for the first time :)

I was supposed to be on a business trip to Atlanta today and tomorrow, but the client cancelled _3 hours_ before my flight. What a fiasco.


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## Kellen

Dragon - That is awesome that Gunnar rolled and that Lily is finally laughing for you. Sorry to hear about the fiasco of the plane trip. I can guarantee that Atlanta is miserable this time of year. So glad we moved away from there! And the airport is the worst one I've ever been to. If you need to go anywhere you have to take the darn underground train and it takes forever.

Teagen discovered her thumb yesterday. Before now she has been content to suck on her fingers, but now that she has her thumb there is no going back. She almost settled herself to sleep without nursing because she was so in love with her thumb. She has also started waving her hands around and trying to mimic the baby sign language we are all learning.


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## DragonflyWing

That's so cute! It's funny that you mentioned baby sign language...I was just looking that up yesterday so we can start teaching the babies some basic signs. They actually have some words and gestures they have made up to communicate (they both say "ungee" when they want to eat, Gunnar says "ning" when he wants his pacifier, Lily rubs her hands together when she needs to be changed, etc)...so I think baby sign language would work well with them.

Lily suddenly figured out how to roll both ways last night! I even got it on video :D Less than a week after Gunnar rolled, isn't that weird? We haven't really been trying to teach them or anything, they just did it spontaneously.


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## Kellen

That is awesome. Congratulations to both of your little kiddos. Teagen loves her Baby Signing Time. In fact we have to play the CD's in the car or she will cry (she is not a fan of the car seat), but once the music comes on she is a happy camper.
For a while she was saying "rang" whenever she wanted to eat, but hasn't done that for a few weeks. Now when she watches the signing DVDs she tries to move her fingers and hands to mimic the signs. She almost has "milk" down, which is opening and closing your fist like you are milking a cow. Even my parents and grandmother have picked up some of the simple signs and use them with her.


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## wamommy

Congrats on the rolling over, Gunnar and Lilja! Max has not mastered that... he always gets his arm stuck under him as he rolls and can't make it all the way over. The poor guy turns red from frustration until I pull his arm out and help him over. 

Baby sign has always intrigued me. I've thought of looking into it, but never have. How do you guys like it? 

USA ladies, any plans for the 4th of July? I'm supposed to see my godmother, my niece and my nephew. I just talked to them and TWO of them have a cold... fabulous. I'm expecting us all to get sick, but I can't back out now since the entire rest of the family cancelled. I don't want it to be the 3 of them sitting on the porch with sparklers! I've honestly always disliked the 4th. I have really, really sensitive ears and fireworks kill me. I also have a phobia of fire, so the bottle rockets being shot onto my roof all night terrify me.:help:


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## DragonflyWing

No plans here...just relaxing at home. This weekend we're driving 2 hours to DH's cousin's place for a "cousin campout" with all the little kids. It's also going to include a surprise "murder mystery" birthday party for DH's sister. A lot of the family is staying from Thursday-Sunday, but we're just going to go for the day on Saturday. I don't think it would be very practical for us to stay overnight with the babies considering all the stuff we'd have to bring, plus my pumping schedule. I'm a little nervous about the 4 hours of driving- I hope the babies don't have a meltdown in the car.

Gunnar is still in the midst of his sleep regression- every morning he wakes up screaming between 3 and 6am and won't go back to sleep. And DH still hasn't learned- he stayed up until 4:30am this morning and then only got 1.5 hours of sleep before Gunnar woke up. Now he's super grumpy because he's exhausted.

We moved Lily into the crib in our bedroom so Gunnar doesn't wake her up, and that seems to work fine. Last night she went to sleep at 10, and slept through until I got up at 8:30. I think she woke briefly when I got up to pump at 4, because I heard her moving and she stuck her little hand out between the rails, but she didn't make a peep, and went back to sleep on her own.


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## helena

I have a plan for 4 July - it is my eldest' 5th birthday :) so it's all presents, play and a Chinese resto for lunch (his favourite) and a dinosaur themed party on Saturday :)

Busy busy here, school is now on summer break so I have all 3 kids all day every day..hence my surfing time is much reduced.

Loving the thumb sucking, wish Kiara would get that! 
And the rolling twins! Excellent. We are almost there but K hasn't taken that final push yet. She gets one leg over, head tucked in, but isn't doing the final push.

Ok, off to bed now as I am exhausted and have been baking dinosaur cakes and making dinosaur egg piñata all evening.

Will read and write more soon. happy 4 July all xxxx


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## Kellen

No plans for the 4th here. We are far enough from town not to hear the fireworks, but close enough that we'll be able to see the rather expensive show that they have been fundraising for all summer. I'm not a big noise fan and sparklers scare the heck of out me... However, the following day we have a family trip planned to Costco and a great seafood place about 45 minutes away.

Teagen has been constantly waking at 3am and demanding to come to bed with us. When DH brings her to the bed she doesn't want to nurse, she just wants to snuggle and goes right back to sleep; however, if we try to put her back in her crib she will cry. Tonight I'm thinking we might try a little CIO. It is obvious that she knows she will get picked up and brought to bed if she fusses so I'm over it and she needs to learn how to sleep by herself. We'll see if I can handle it... DH is also over sharing the bed and not getting to snuggle me without a baby between.

Helena - the dino birthday party sounds fun. And it is only a few days before Bastille Day so you'll be getting fireworks pretty soon. A couple of years ago DH and I were in New Caledonia for Bastille Day and got to watch some fairly impressive fireworks.

Wamommy - Good luck with not getting everyone sick! I'm sorry that the rest of your family isn't able to make the festivities. Poor little Max. I can only imagine how frustrated he is. Teagen gets so mad that she can't crawl yet.


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## Kellen

As for the baby signing it is awesome. We have "Baby Signing Time" which came with 4 DVDs, 4 CDs that have all the songs from the DVDs, 4 board books, and 4 sets of flashcards that go along with the DVDs and books. It is really quite simple and common sense. For example, the sign for "food" or "eat" is putting your hand to your mouth. "Drink" is tipping your hand to your mouth like when you take a drink of water. The songs are super catchy. This morning Teagen was asleep so instead of talking DH and I were able to sign that I wanted him to get me a "drink" of "water" before "driving" off to work. DH has also been able to effectively communicate with a deaf person at work thanks to the sign language. So all in all I'm sold. Teagen signed diaper again to me today and almost milk so it is catching.

Off to bed we go... wish us luck with not immediately bringing her to bed with us when she cries in a few hours.


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## Kellen

We tried the CIO method last night... and it worked. I swore I would never be one of "those" parents who put their child down and let them cry. Thankfully Teagen only fussed for around 4 minutes before she gave up the ghost and went to sleep on her own. Tonight she refused to nurse to sleep and wanted her crib :cry: I am glad she wants to be independent and self settle, but I also miss the snuggles as she drifts to sleep.

On a very random note: the world would be childless if pregnancy were left up to men. DH has heartburn and is currently laying on the floor with a pillow and bemoaning his pain. :nope:

We can barely see the fireworks from our house, but we tried! It was too windy to be outside anyways. Tomorrow we're hosting a BBQ for my parents and grandma (a whole 100 yards from their house!). But we have a nice outdoor patio table, chairs and umbrella set up with a BBQ. 

And here is a picture of Teagen and I in our patriotic clothes. Her outfit only lasted about an hour as it was really too short to snap (my mom bought it a month ago, it was a 6-9 month). Then, after she woke up from a nap, she exploded her diaper front and back! I guess that is what happens when she discovers that avocados are amazing. :happydance:
 



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## helena

Lovely picture Kellen! You look great.

This is my family, yesterday. On one of the very rare calm meals out (usually someone is tantrum ing ) https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_F634F59E.jpg
It was to celebrate my sons 5th birthday. And was the first time Kiara had eaten solid food at a restaurant :) so much fun her sitting up with us as a fully involved member of the family.

Nothing wrong with a little bit of CIO in my book. Controlled. 4 minutes is nothing - you were lucky :)


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## DragonflyWing

Great photos, ladies!

The twins had their 6 month checkup on Wednesday. Gunnar is 16lbs10oz (50th percentile) and 26.5 inches long (25th percentile). Lily is 14lbs2oz (20th percentile) and 25 inches long (12th percentile). The doctor was slightly concerned with her length, because it has dropped down on a bit on the chart, and her head circumference was also in the 12th percentile...so I have to stop in in a month or so to make sure her growth hasn't stalled. 

They got their 6 month immunizations, and it never gets any easier to see them in pain. Gunnar stopped crying almost immediately, but Lily was overdue for her nap, so she was half-asleep when the nurse gave her the shots, and it really scared her. She got so upset...she let out a blood-curdling scream that had the doctor running back in because she thought the nurse did something wrong or she fell off the table or something. I didn't even know she could shriek that loudly. :(

They both had fevers yesterday and took longer naps than usual. Even though they obviously weren't feeling great, they were still really smiley. It was nice to stay home and spend time with them.


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## wamommy

What great pictures, ladies!! Kellen, you look so healthy and rested. Teagen is looking great, too. Helena, what a beautiful family! Our kids are all so close in age, it's a shame we aren't closer together for a play date :D

Dragon, I'm so sorry to hear the twins had a rough time with their jabs :( That's so tough, isn't it? You can't exactly explain to them that it's for their own health and safety. Luckily I don't think they remember much at this age. 

Our 4th was interesting. We went to my Mom's beach house on the coast of Washington, but it was 60 degrees and SO windy. We tried to go down to the beach and everyone got sand in their eyes and froze, so we quickly came back inside. We tried to do fireworks in the driveway but the wind kept knocking them over and putting out the fuses! My kids' cousin was there, too, and she's notoriously mean to my kids, which is super awkward. I never know how much I'm supposed to step in and intervene and how much I should let them work it out. I get a little angry every time my 3-year-old runs to me crying because something mean was said... but all I can do is try to use it as a teaching opportunity and try to help my girls understand why we don't say mean things or hurt other people and how it makes US feel.

We just got back an hour ago and my 16-year-old stepdaughter just brought a list down for all of the things she needs for camp tomorrow (she leaves for a week). Oh my gosh... it's a ton of stuff. It's amazing how nice she is to us when she wants something! :wacko:


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## Kellen

Helena - That is a beautiful family photo. It looks like you were all having a great time eating out. I hope that the dino birthday was fun for everyone. Congrats to Miss K for being a big girl and getting to eat with everyone else. 

Dragon - Poor twins! Jabs are no fun for anyone. I hope that Lily checks out okay in the future and is just growing at her own pace. From your previous posts it sounds like she is cognitively advancing leaps and bounds.

Wamommy - Cousins and mean words are no fun. Unfortunately I had to put up with that all the time growing up. We moved from CA to MO and I was not well received by my cousins there. Thankfully your little one will tell you, I kept it from my mom until I was in my teens. How is Max sleeping at night? I hope that he is being good for you and getting into a routine. And thank you for the compliment.

CIO is going okay. It is hard at first because she gets to mad. It isn't that she is lonely or wants a person, she is mad that we aren't immediately doing what ever it is that Teagen wants. DH has to come hide in the bedroom with me (there are not too many places to escape to in the RV). Tonight - so far - was the worst with it taking her 15 minutes to re-settle herself and fall asleep. Last night she slept from 7:45pm-6:30 in her crib with a minor fuss at 4am that she settled herself.
Taking a page from Helena we got her a lovey. Well, actually, it is a Taggie Blanket. She loves it and uses it to help soothe herself to sleep. She'll finger the taggies and suck on the corner. It is nice because it was inexpensive and I'll be able to replace it once she wears it out. I'm actually thinking of getting a couple identically ones now so if this one gets dirty I can give her a clean one without a fuss.


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## helena

That's a good idea Kellen - buying a few. I tried Kiara on a little blanket lovey but she kept putting it over her face then gets in a flap that she can't work out how to get it off. She does it all the time with her dresses if she is laying on her back in a dress. Se will pull it up, suck on the skirt, put it over her whole face, find it funny for ten seconds and then panic that she can't remember how to move it off herself. It is kind of funny..mean mummy! Hehe.


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## helena

She rolled! A least from back to front. She was so shocked and as she we over the second time she gave her head a tiny tiny bump. But oh my did she scream. Definately a drama queen. So very different to my boy babies. Bless her. 

And she is eating soooo much. She has two course meals now. And had her first toasted bread the other day. Just a small finger of toast, but she was very very happy sucking on it. I really get the impression she wants real food and not just fruit or veg ..she needs filling up. Yesterday she had blended home made sweet potato wedges. A hit! And tonight it was blended spaghetti bolognaise I had made for my boys, without salt. Another hit!
And she had Greek yogurt for desert, again a big bit. Such a foodie baby. I would like to try her on egg soon but I think they say to wait until 12 months? Wll google..

Kiara has a kind of birth mark on her back. It is actually bright red, shaped like a flower (funny how we nearly chose the name poppy). The doctor said it would fade by the time she is 7 or so, and it is in fact just blood under the surface. 
But recently it had started looking a bit damaged, a bit brown or scab like in the middle...am a bit worried but typically my doctors is shut this month I think (here a lot of places shut down over summer as everyone returns to their own countries). I will google it I think...


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## wamommy

:yipee: Hurray for rolling over, Kiara!! She's officially on the move :)

Max hates bananas... I mean, really hates them. As soon as they were in his mouth he made the largest, saddest, frown and then burst into tears. I caught it on tape... the funniest thing ever. Helena, I'm a mean Mummy too. At least I must be, because I find it terribly funny, too!

Kellen, Max is improving a tiny bit with sleep. He still wakes several times a night, but the stretches of sleep have gone from 1-2 hours to 2-3 :D I'll take it!

We caved and bought an exersaucer. We had one for Danica (DD#2) but sold it when we thought we were finished having babies. I found the exact same one on Craigslist in great shape but dirty, and spent all afternoon cleaning ever bit of it. Max LOVES it!! He concentrates so hard and touches each toy. I think it's helping him not flail so much.


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, we also just bought an exersaucer- Camden loves it too although he's a bit small for it and I have to stuff a blanket around him. :). Is Camden the only baby that hasn't rolled over at all?! So excited for all of the rollers- I can't wait until Camden gets rolling!

We're still exclusively breastfeeding... we might start cereal in the next couple of weeks but wanted to start foods as close to 6 months as we could wait. He's doing great so far. 

Camden has gone on a serious nap regression.... now only napping for 20 minutes only twice a day. Ive tried everything it seems. I'm not sure what to do?


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## Kellen

Sierra - We are pretty much still EBF. Teagen really only gets tastes until she is able to sit and support herself. We nurse to sleep for naps and I have to lay down with her or else she will wake up. Afraid I'm no help in that department.

Wamommy - They do make the funniest faces when trying new foods and cry for silly reasons. Tonight Teagen headbutted DH in the nose... then she let out a big cry. Silly baby.

Helena - Huzzah for rolling! Kiara is getting to be such a big girl. How is her sitting skill coming along? I hope that there is nothing wrong with the birthmark and that it is just naturally darkening.

So far CIO has been fairly successful. Putting her down last night was the hardest so far because she wasn't as sleeping, but we are keeping with a 7:30 bedtime. She cried for 20 minutes (we set the timer for 5-10 minute intervals to make sure she was okay). Once she fell asleep she slept until 4:30 when she fussed a bit, but we discovered in the morning that her heater didn't kick on and I think she was a little chilly. So at 6 when the alarm went off DH brought her into the bed and we did a family wake up routine... she then promptly fell back asleep until 8:30.

I feel proud of myself. My house is clean! All the laundry is done and put away. All the dishes are clean and put away. The floor is vacuumed and mopped. I actually cooked a full dinner and wiped down the counters. I feel like we are now starting to get into a routine. Also talked to one of my SIL today. They live 30 minutes from my in-laws. She offered to have us stay with them any time we go to visit because she was worried about Teagen being exposed to secondhand smoke. I am pretty excited about that. She and I get along really well. Our husbands are only 364 days apart in age (did I mention my MIL only stopped having children after she had a girl as #6? I'm married to #4).


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## DragonflyWing

Yay for rolling, Kiara! That's great :) 

DH texted me on Friday to tell me that Lily had said "mum." I was so sad that I had missed it, but I didn't need to be, because it's her new favorite sound! :D I spent the whole weekend running to her every time she said it, and now of course she's using it against me :haha:. Whenever I walk away from her now, she screws up her face in concentration and says "mmmmmmmMUM! mamamama mum mum mum mum!" 

She seems to like the way it feels to say the "m" sound.


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## Kellen

Dragon that is awesome! Congrats to being the first "mum" here. Cute that she has already learned to associate you with the sound and is using it to call you. :)

This morning Teagen woke up and decided that "guh" is her new favorite sound and that it can be added to "ahh". So if we ask her a question it sounds like she is responding with derision. "Teagen do you like this shirt mommy is wearing?" "GAH!"


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## DragonflyWing

Haha that's too cute! You have a little fashion critic on your hands.

It's funny how quickly the twins teach each other everything. L has already taught G the "m" sound, but he's more reluctant. He's more like "mmmmmmm. mmmmm. muh?" :haha:

It will be soon enough that we won't be able to get them to stop talking, and we'll look back fondly on the days when they were immobile and relatively mute.


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## Kellen

Teagen is apparently taking a page from the twin's book today. Not only have we "gah'ed" today, but she found her "hmmmm's". It is so cute. She purses her lips together and makes a humming noise. I think it must feel funny because she giggles each time afterwards. She said "mum" too, but like Gunnar she likes just the sound of "mmmmmmm".

I agree. It is so exciting, but also a bit sad. Sierra, I would enjoy Camden not being mobile quite yet. You'd be surprised how tiring it is keeping up with a semi-mobile baby. Dragon your comment about them being immobile and relatively mute was spot on.

Last night Teagen was passed out on our bed in her jammies and she looked so grown up that I started crying. DH laughed at me... men.


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## helena

Hi all. It's growth spurt day here today. Kiara was up at 4.30 practicing her rolls and she is still eating an extra meal a day. Ad has reverted to two weds between 10pm and 7am..Urgh. Last night between 7pm and 7am she had about 400ml, much more Than usual.

She has rolled both ways now so life is changing...

Her sitting is coming along well. She can fit unaided on the floor for a second but when she feeds we have a bumbo chair and she can sit unaided in that. Like this...https://www.google.fr/search?q=bumb...AA&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|2;d|_Fq-FeEwPPeeiM:
Occasionally she will slump slightly, and I straighten her. But it doesn't stop her loving her food.
In the last two days, during this growth spurt, she has got so much stronger sitting. If I hold one hand she would sit up all day.
She is also having more textures and lumps. Her chewing action is getting good now. And more finger food the other day - a finger of toast.i kind of hold it too so I know she won't swallow a massive piece. She loved it. 
I feel I am zooming through this weening phase. But she loves it!

Well done babies on new sounds. Not much of that here. Bt lots of raspberry blowing while eating. I have a kind of pebble dash look now ;) monkey.

Ht hot hot here today.


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## wamommy

Oh my gosh, the babies are all doing so many new things!! Max can roll both ways now, too, but it isn't pretty! He's sort of out of control with his movements still, but he's getting better. He's able to purposely grab things now, which is both cute and sometimes a pain! He grabs my food while I'm eating or yanks at my hair. 

We have the same Bumbo, Helena, in purple! Max will look back at his baby pictures and say, "Mom, why are all of my toys pink and purple? Why are some of my pajamas pink?" They're perfectly good, if not slightly used by his sisters :haha:

My stepdaughter has been gone at camp for a week and it's been SO nice. DH and I had some quality time together and were able to reconnect. I didn't realize how much space had been growing, but hopefully it will start to improve now.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I tried to get my DH to let me use some of my neices' things for Camden, but he refused due to the girly colors. lol So, we have a Bumbo in blue now. :) Camden yanks at my hair too---and shoves a fist full of it into his mouth the SECOND he grabs it!

Separation Anxiety has hit HARD here. Camden screams whenever anyone but DH and I hold him. He gets red faced, tears, and just inconsolable. :( Poor guy. He especially does not like his grandma---my MIL---but I feel that is because she is very "in his face" and loud whenever she sees him.. . I think it scares him. :(

Where do all of your lo's nap? Camden has been napping in his swing, but is starting to get a bit too big for it. But, he REFUSES to nap anywhere else. . .not sure how to make that transition?


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## Kim2012

SierraJourney said:


> Wamommy, we also just bought an exersaucer- Camden loves it too although he's a bit small for it and I have to stuff a blanket around him. :). Is Camden the only baby that hasn't rolled over at all?! So excited for all of the rollers- I can't wait until Camden gets rolling!
> 
> We're still exclusively breastfeeding... we might start cereal in the next couple of weeks but wanted to start foods as close to 6 months as we could wait. He's doing great so far.
> 
> Camden has gone on a serious nap regression.... now only napping for 20 minutes only twice a day. Ive tried everything it seems. I'm not sure what to do?

Sierra i am no help but just to say you are not alone on the no naps. Brianna doesnt do naps i have tried walks bathe feed and play. She woke up at 10am and hasnt had a nap and its 7pm. I should say may have a nap on some days when she has had a bowel movement.


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## Kim2012

The babies are growing and really exciting to hear all the developments, sounds etc. no rolling or definate sounds here.... Or mayb i am a bad listener


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## wamommy

Sierra, no separation anxiety yet, but I know it's coming! We get a couple nervous glances, but that's it. What's funny is, it's my godmother (who's also loud) that's the only person who has ever made Max cry! Luckily (not really luckily) she broke her wrist and can't hold him for a while!

Max naps in his Pack n Play in the kitchen, lol... I think he's grown used to the chaos around here and it's actually soothing. He can't sleep when it's quiet!

Kim, your avatar is too cute! What lovely ladies :D


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! He used to nap in the Pack In Play but switched that for the swing at 2 months. He also sleeps downstairs amidst my "chaos"--which isn't much, but I'm wondering when naps need to transition to his crib? Anyone know?


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## helena

Kiara naps in her car seat, pushchair or her cot / crib, depending where we are. Yesterday it was on her baby gym on the living room floor! just dozed off. so cute.
If we are at homei prefer her to nap in her crib. My first son wouldn't ever do this, so l know not all babies will, but Kiara seems happy enough. And it allows me to get on with doing other things. But since I am often out and about Kiara has to be flexible - I have heard of babies who will only nap on their cribs.. That wouldn't work for us.
I think the earlier we can get them used to sleeping in their own spaces the better (or maybe I was just scarred by My first...such a bad sleeper, needed mummy too much! For two years!) but I am also aware of wanting her to be adaptable.
I prefer to do battle with a younger baby than an older a d louder one. For me sleep training, I.e. getting Kiara into her own bed and room, for night and naps, has been important frm 3 months.

Ultimately whatever works is fine. For a year my eldest would only nap on the sofa. 
He stopped naps at about 3 or 4 and suddenly I realized I shouldn't have stressed so much about trying to get him into a good nap routine since he soon gave up naps anyway!...

Wamommy, Kiara seems to enjoy the noises chaos of a couple of superheroes or dinosaurs charging about here too. If she wakes before my boys in the morning she will often doze off again more easily once they wake and start making too much noise :)
No separation anxiety yet here, Kiara is happy with anyone who will pay her attention. I am always handing her to friends at the park or wherever we are though since it is school holidays and i habe all three kids full time, and on top of that I have just got my middle son out of diapers so i often need to nip off and assist him for wees etc. or I share Kiara with friends to try and share myself with my sons a bit too. 
It's tricky sometimes, making sure all three get my time..do you find that too wamommy?
Luckily my friends love babies and happy to cuddle a happy smiling baby any time :)


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## DragonflyWing

No separation anxiety here yet, either...although the babies don't actually see other people all that often! We have visitors maybe once a week, usually less, and we take them out maybe twice a month lol. DH and I have always been homebodies, and it's SUCH a production getting both babies ready, then keeping them fed and happy while we're out. It's just easier to stay home. I run errands on my own after work and on Sunday afternoons. If DH has to go anywhere, he goes when I get home from work or on Saturdays. Two weekends ago, we took them out for the afternoon on Saturday...all we did was stop at a few stores and his grandfather's house, but at the end of the day I was totally exhausted. It's also difficult to coordinate pumping if I have to be out of the house for more than 3 hours.

I wonder when all of this stuff will get easier. I guess it will get a little better when they're a year old and I can stop pumping.


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## Kellen

Shhh... I'm hiding out at a local coffee shop supposedly working on my Phd. I left Teagen with DH and have promised to be home by 1pm. I have two whole hours to myself! I do actually need to finish my assignment that is due this evening, but I thought I'd pop on here quickly.

No separation anxiety here. But since we live right next to my parents and grandmother Teagen is quite used to being looked after by other people. She isn't terribly fond of strangers, but given 5 minutes she'll warm up to just about anyone. I blame DH for this as he is very outgoing and loves to be social, whereas I would prefer to hide away and only talk to my family.

I was supposed to go to the library to work on my coursework today, but apparently they don't open until 2pm on Thursdays. Really? Ridiculous! My brain stops working around noon so 2pm is way out of my reach.

We had a hand-me down Bumbo that someone gave us for our shower, but it was on the recall list and since we didn't have the original paperwork we couldn't get the correct parts to make it safe. Tomorrow my mom and I are going baby shopping so I think I'll break down and buy a nice new one with the belt strap. Teagen wants to join us at the table so I think the Bumbo would work nicely for beginning eating. My mom is buying her an awesome highchair/rocking horse/desk combo that a local man makes out of local wood that he fells and finishes. It is beautiful, but she doesn't get it until Christmas.

We live out in the country and every week we are allotted water for the purpose of irrigating our fields. Well, yesterday evening we were watering the lawn. My DH and dad had run off to put gas in the vehicles and had asked me to go out and move the hose every so often. The second time I stepped out to move the house I noticed movement in the gas. It was a gopher! The nasty little suckers have been eating the roots of my tomato plants so I went in the house and promptly handed Teagen off to my mom before grabbing the .22 long riffle. I successfully killed it and then made DH throw it over the fence into the pasture. Now I'm aching to go out to the range. I'd forgotten how much I enjoy shooting.

Enough of this... I must go contemplate how my values and ethics will affect the process of policy analysis. First I need to choose a policy to analyze. :(


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## helena

Love you coming on here instead of working right away Kellen :)

My bumbo doesn't have a strap...neither of the two I have had have. As soon as baby gets too wriggly I will get rid of it. I didn't realize they could have a strap. Is it to strap it to a chair?

I am thinking of getting our proper high chair out soon - the cheapest basic one from Ikea, I love it, and I think Kiara is ready for sitting up more.

It's my birthday today. A whole 36 years old...Urgh. Spent he day at the park it's my adorable trio of children and friends and a picnic, and have an evening with takeaway pizza and cold beer with DH. Perfect :)


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## Kellen

Happy Birthday, Helena! I'm glad you had a wonderful time.

And the Bump strap is for around their waist, I believe. I read that there were too may reports of kids toppling out of it and cracking their heads. 

It was nice to be out and away from responsibility for a while. I managed to get my work done, drink a cup of coffee and chat with a baristo who has twim 5 month old girls. Now DH has run off on his motorcycle to go riding with a group of co-workers. I get to hang with the kiddo and go to the out door market pretty soon.


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## Kellen

Teagen is on the bed with me. She just flipped herself over and grabbed the video monitor for her crib... Apparently we are all done nursing for now. And now she is mad that I won't let her chew on the electric cord.


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## wamommy

Happy birthday, Helena!! It sounds like a wonderful one. :D

Our Bumbo doesn't have the strap either, but since we only use it on the floor I'm not too worried. Worst case scenario Max face plants a whole 8 inches... which while sad wouldn't be terribly dangerous. I think the problem is that parents were walking away from babies in the Bumbo on the counter/table etc. We actually don't even own a high chair. We use one of those chairs that attaches to the table. I think Max is about ready!

Kellen, get to work, procrastinator!! :haha: I would actually enjoy the time to yourself. Good for DH for making sure you get that!

I'm starting a new workout today. I did a great job a couple of months ago, working our every day and I lost 8 pounds in one month... then quit :dohh: I've been stalled at 10 pounds to go for 2 months! No excuses now... Max is 5 months old for goodness sake. It's sad to be hiding my body all summer in baggy shirts and "fat" jeans. 

Sierra, how is Camden feeling?


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## SierraJourney

Happy birthday helena! Sounds like a nice day!

Kellen--good for you for getting out of the house for a bit---and having fun amidst doing your work. Outdoor market sounds lovely!

wamommy, I still have 8 pounds left to lose. . .I was diligent for about a month exercising, but then didn't see any results, so I got discouraged and quit. . . I'm trying to convince DH that he and I need to take up jogging or something that we can include Camden in (since we have a jogging stroller!).

Camden is feeling better (I think?) I switched him to sensitive diapers and that took care of the smell and how many diapers he wets a day! Crazy!! He's still SUCH a fussy little baby. . .I just can't believe it. He definitely has his happy moments, but fusses ALL of the time. The doctor has assured me that usually after 6 months that "switch" has "flipped". . .we shall see. . . His temp still varies quite a bit, but the dr doesn't seem worried. . .so I'm guessing that's just our strange little boy. ;)

DH and I are thinking about checking out a house for sale in the country. We absolutely love our house (which we bought 2 years ago), but it doesn't have a backyard for Camden to play in, and our street continues to get busier and busier. . .which worries us if Camden plays in the side yard because it's right by the street. . .no buffer. I don't know how it'd work if we bought the house in the country, because we would need to sell our house in order to pay for the country house. .. so not sure how possible that is. Anyone have any experience in that?

We ordered Camden some rice cereal today. . .it'll be here in a week or so (I'm a huge organic, non-GMO, non-pesticide person, so we had to do tons of research and order it from a special store. . .lol.. .I'm probably over-the-top, but it makes me feel better). SO, maybe in a couple weeks, we'll finally start Camden on cereal. :) I'm getting excited for him. I think he'll LOVE it because he is always trying to grab my food or plate (today he was chewing on my plate as I ate. . .no matter how many times I took it away from him, he pulled it back into his mouth!)


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## Kellen

Sierra - I am super fussy about what foods Teagen eats too. The majority of what she has tried has either been purchased from local farmers or picked right out of our garden. I think that having a house in the country is the most amazing thing you can do for a child. I'm a bit biased as I was allowed to roam all over 80 acres growing up. I'm glad that the new diapers are working out. Hopefully that magically flip will happen and you'll have a happy non-fussy baby.

I think lugging around my 18+lb baby and getting back to eating healthy has helped me drop my pregnancy weight dramatically. Only 1lb to go before I'm back to pre-pregnancy weight. I'm back in my old jeans, which are beginning to be a bit baggy as lifting Teagen, squatting with Teagen, playing on the floor with Teagen has given my leg muscles more definition. Best of luck to you all! My goal was to be back to my original weight by 6 months. I've got three weeks and 1lb to go!


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## helena

Thanks all. Was a nice easy day. Today however is another matter. Have woken up to two boys being v naughty and testing...Urgh. I have no patiene after Kiara woke twice in the night to practice making noises and rolling. Bleurgh.


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## SierraJourney

Oh no Helena! Hopefully they calm down for you soon!! :( every time I'm having a rough day with Camden, I always wonder how people do it with older children as well. You've got to be exhausted!

Kellen, I too grew up on 40 acres and frequently walked to my grandpa's 80 acres to play too. I built forts, caught frogs and turtles in the pond, and did tons of make believe in the fields and woods. It's an experience I would love Camden to have! I'm going to take a drive past the house tomorrow... because so far I've just seen photos.


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## DragonflyWing

Happy belated birthday Helena :) Glad you had a good day, but sorry the kids are being naughty this morning!

I went to my follow-up appointment with the psychiatrist yesterday...he increased my antidepressant dosage and I have to go back in 3 weeks. If it's not working by then, we might try something else. Also found out he's an Evanescence fan (that's my favorite band), so we spent about 10 minutes talking about their music and the history of the band. I didn't expect to find something in common with a 40 something year old psychiatrist, but it actually made me feel a little more comfortable talking to him.


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## Kellen

Helena - I second Sierra's thoughts about how people with older children can have all their children survive into adulthood. It must get so frustrating at times, but then again I suppose it can also be three times as rewarding as well since you have three times the amount of love going around.

Sierra - I loved being able to just go outside and imagine anything I wanted to. And I love the fact that where we live now Teagen will be able to do the same. I hope that you like the looks of the house out in the country. We were approached by our neighbor yesterday who has an additional 6 acres that abutts our property that he wants to sell. There is also a 12 acre piece of property behind us that has a house and several barns that might become available. DH and I have been seriously discussing using his army veteran benefits to get qualified for a loan to buy that property if possible.

Today the 4 Daughters (as my mom likes to call us) are going baby shopping. It is very hot here and Teagen is growing so fast she is running out of summer clothes. Lots of people bought ahead for us at the shower, but we didn't know she would be wearing 9-12 months at 5 months so all of those clothes are for Dec-Feb type weather and rather warm. I have a big sack of clothes that she can no longer fit into so we're going to a really nice baby consignment store that will either give me cash for the clothes or let me swap them for some that fit! My mom is also on the hunt for an exosaucer or some type of activity center for Teagen to play and sit in. Also Target is having a sale on diapers. If I buy 2 boxes I get a $10 Target gift card. They also have sippy cups and whatnot on sale today as well.

Last night DH frustrated me. At around 4am Teagen woke up and started fussing. I then realized she was trying to nurse on her blanket so I had DH bring her to me. She ate really good for 15 minutes and then passed out. Back to her crib she went and settled down without a fuss. 5 minutes later DH looks at the video monitor and jumps out of bed! She had rolled onto her tummy (like normal) but he couldn't see her nose. So he reaches in the crib, wakes the baby up and repositions her. She cried. I buried my head in the pillow. She settled. DH came back to bed. 10 minutes later as I am finally drifting back to sleep he looks over at the monitor and says: "I can't see her nose!" I growled at him and told him to leave it alone or go sleep on the couch if he was so concerned and mentioned that the wiggly baby repositions herself every 30 seconds. We also purposely bought a crib mattress that is breathable even if she squishes her nose into it. He finally settled down and apologized this morning for being an overprotective dad. Love him to death... but don't bug the sleeping baby!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--that's great that you have something in common with your psychiatrist! I'm sure that helps so much now that you know that!

Kellen--oh I do hope it becomes available for you--that would be lovely to have your own piece of land and so close to family at the same time! 

Hooray for baby clothes shopping! How fun! Camden is right on schedule with clothes, if not a bit behind (some 6 month clothing he can fit into, but other than that, he's still wearing 3 month or 3-6 month!)

I have to admit---I would be the same as your DH, running in and checking. . . my poor DH has to calm me down every night because I'm worried about the baby. (DH refused to get a video monitor for this very reason---he was worried I would be checking it all. night. long. So. . we just have a regular monitor, which drives me crazy and I think makes me more paranoid!)


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm sorry the boys were being difficult today :( That is so very hard, isn't it? It's such a mixed feeling to be SO irritated with a child (or children) that you at the same time love so fiercely. I find myself yelling in frustration and then instantly feeling so guilty and want to cry. I just keep telling myself, as long as they know I love them everything will work itself out... even on the crazy days. I hope they're better tomorrow and that you get a nice break this evening!

Dragonfly, I'm glad you had a follow up appointment! It's so nice that there are people actually managing your care now. I hope your meds work, and I'm glad you connected with your psychiatrist. It's so important to be comfortable with your doc. I saw a shrink for YEARS after having cancer because my parents thought there would be long-lasting emotional effects. I loved her so much that it made me want to go into that field. 

You ladies who grew up in the country are so lucky! I'm a city girl, but my parents often took us camping and sent us to camp so that we could experience and explore nature. Now that I have kids I'm struggling to find safe ways to do that with them where I live. Like you, Sierra, we don't have much of a yard. We can't even get a family dog (not that I want the responsibility right now anyway) because we don't have anywhere for it to run! I take the girls to the park almost every day, but their very favorite place is a national park around where I live where you can hike in a half mile or so, and they throw rocks into a stream. Who knew finding bugs under rocks could be so entertaining? :haha: If we could move to the country I'd consider it for their sake, but I do love where we live too.


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## wamommy

:rofl: Sierra, I know what you mean... I stopped using a monitor with Max, but was addicted to it with the girls. I find it's WAY more useful when they get a little older and I need to see if they are climbing out of the crib! Actually, i used it today to eavesdrop on my girls having a "private" conversation in the bedroom. It's too funny to listen to them talk.


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## helena

I loooove my video monitor. :)

I think that having 3 kids is slightly more crazy than two, but I am so used to being tired that an extra one didnt make much difference :) the kids meal times is busy and I struggle with making dinner for the boys and mush for Kiara all at the same time, if DH isnt here. its espcially tricky if one or more are being needy or baby is crying.
Otherwise Kiara is great and fits in so well with our life. She is so content following the boys around the park etc. I held her sitting on our big trampoline yesterday while my sons jumped and entertained her. She was so happy, grinning at them. I think she wants to get involved and jump too!


Haing said that. She is very keen on standing these days, while I hold her obviously, on my legs for just a few seconds at a time. She looks so proud of herself :)

We are off on holiday next week. We a driving to England. We haven't done it before and maybe it will be ok, maybe it will be hell on earth...we will drive about 5 hours and then we are stopping for 3 days in the Champagne region, then we drive to the top of France and get a Ferry to England and then we drive to the south East of England where we have a little house rented. We will stay a week, visit both of our families near by, and then we driv back. On the way back we are going to surprise the kids by stopping for a day and night at Eurodisney in Paris :)
Lots of driving but hopefully it will go ok. 
It will be the first time my sons and husband will have seen my mum since she got sick. I have prepared my sons a bit, telling them Grandma had medicine that made her hair fall out....but hopefully they won't notice too much how much she has changed and just how sick she is. It may be emotional for mum and I..ad DH who I know is a bit nervous.

Anyways, that's enough of my evenings ramblings. 
Glad you felt comfortable with your doctor Dragon. I do hope the extra dosage help. Have you noticed any improvements or changes yet? (((Hug)))


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## helena

Ps. My day got easier thanks girls. Once i get the kids out of the house and playing outside stress levels always go down. we spent the afternoon at the park while my 5 year old practiced on his bike - he just learnt to ride it without his stabilizers yesterday :)


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## SierraJourney

Helena your holiday sounds lovely! And what a surprise for the kids! 

I'm having mil issues... she lives 2 hours away so I don't see her as much.. but they have a cottage 30 minutes away. They've been at the cottage since July 4. We spent all of July 4 with them, then Monday evening, Wednesday lunch, she wanted to come over today but I told Dh no...and shes coming over on Sunday and will be back next week too. Now I don't mind seeing her but that much is insane... I want time with my husband and baby alone! Dh flipped out on me when I asked if he can limit their time here. He complained because we spend time with my mom who lives closer... but I explained to him that that is every other week not every other day! And it wouldn't be that bad if she didn't scare my baby when she practically yells in his face and if when he cried for me she actually gave him back instead of literally keeping him from me... but I dread seeing her.. and things have been so busy around here that I just want time to relax instead of having people around. :( but now Dh and I are fighting so it's anything but peaceful right now. I just wish his mom would be courteous instead of inviting herself over! :(


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## helena

Oh Sierra. I do feel for you. Mil issues are so stressful. I know I felt so stressed out with mien after babies started coming into the family..I don't know what it is. I guess it is some deep rooted female hormone issue. And the not giving baby back when he cries...gosh, I have been there! It is so hard I know.
I don't feel it so bad now, I guess I am more confident and just step in and take her back. And mil doesn't seem to mind. I think that me being more confident helps, I was sometimes creating issues where there didnt need to be, not that I am saying you are doing the same.
I can still remember the physical dread I used to feel when they were visiting... I still do to a certain extent. Wen Kiara was born..well, I won't even go there again..;)
No advice really, but hang on in there, just go about your business as you see fit and take control of baby. I think for me it was the feeling someone was taking over I didn't like. I guess maybe I felt a bit odd about my new role in the world as a mum - it's like we have a promotion to the same status as mil and want respect as that...but it doesn't always happen like that.
Hang in there, it will get easier, and if it doesn't you will somehow learn to not feel so pressured by it. Be strong and don't let it affect you and DH...easier said than dne I know. ((Hug))


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## SierraJourney

Helena I think it is exactly that! I want respect as a mum and she makes me feel like she's trying to take some control from me! Thanks so much for your words... it helps me feel that I'm not alone!


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## wamommy

Helena, your advice is always so wise and well said. I honestly learn a lot from you! 

A long car trip sounds daunting, but Disney will be so fun!! The boys will be so excited. I hope the time with your Mom goes well and is more good than hard.

I'm off to workout. My girls love it and use toys as weights and jump around the room. No weight off yet, but it feels great to get back into working out. I've been feeling sort of "off" the last week or so, and I'm hoping to kick myself into gear.


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## helena

You made me laugh wamommy. I always feel so disorganized! 

Hope the work out went well! You are inspiring me!.......but for now I write while sitting on ten balcony on the front of my house looking up at the mountains and supping gin and tonics...wondering if I will see some Bastile day fireworks.

It sounds idyllic, but actually I am feeling all thoughtful. Just found out today that a neighbour I had seen about and made polite chit chat with a couple of times died this afternoon. Cancer. Urgh. Really, hold loved ones close and love for now.she was 48.

Xxx


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## Kellen

Wow! It sounds like there is a lot going on for everyone... Car trips, work outs and whatnot!

Teagens #1 favorite food is avocado. If she sees an avocado she will start opening her mouth rapidly and lunge at said avocado. This made eating dinner tonight rather interesting. She is also a huge fan of blackberries, which grow wild around here. Tonight she put herself to sleep playing in her crib. This is only the second time she has gone down without a fuss. Given I did momentarily make her angry when I took her blankie off of her face that she had put there.

Last night was fairly hellacious as I managed to get food poisoning from a box of frozen mac and cheese. I was being lazy for lunch and didn't feel like making up anything so I grab a box of microwaveable mac and cheese that my mom had brought me a couple of weeks ago. Needless to say I'm fairly certain I'm below pre-pregnancy weight now.

I can't believe that Teagen will be 23 weeks old tomorrow. She is growing up so fast. Over the past two days she has started waving to people and putting her arms up to be picked up. When she is on her back she does crunches as she desperately wants to be able to sit by herself. I remember at this time last year DH was super excited because we had almost made it to 12 weeks and we could DTD again... I think we DTD maybe 3 times during the entire pregnancy. Poor guy...


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## Kellen

On another note: I agree cancer sucks. There is a little girl who is our neighbor. She came to visit and randomly mentioned my grandfather who passed from cancer in October. I am irrationally mad at her for getting to meet my grandfather when Teagen didn't have the chance. Probably petty of me, but it is the truth.


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## wamommy

Oooh, yuck... I'm so sorry you got sick, Kellen. Food poisoning is the worst. I hope it's all better now!

Cancer does suck. I'm so sorry about your neighbor, Helena... and your Grandfather, Kellen. It really isn't fair, is it? I suppose it's a reason to treasure today, even when things are hard. 

I'm feeling a bit under the weather today. I think it may be the heat. I just feel so sluggish. How are everyone's babies handling the hot weather?


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## Kellen

Apparently it wasn't food poisoning as DH and my dad are both now experiencing the same symptoms and they didn't eat any of the mac and cheese.

Teagen is doing good so far. We have a tiny wading pool that she gets to go "swimming" in each evening. 

She did go on a three day poop strike. It finally all came out after this morning's nap.


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## SierraJourney

Are you feeling any better Kellen? 

Camden is doing okay. . .we've been inside most of this week, so haven't noticed as much. lol But we're going to an outdoor festival on Thursday-Saturday. . .so we'll see how it goes. Do I need to worry about dehydration for him? Or should it be okay since I'm breastfeeding?

Kellen--Camden tends to not poop for a week, so I understand all too well what it's like when it finally comes out! ;)


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## wamommy

:haha: my girls used to poop-strike, but not so much with Max. He's a violent (and consistent) pooper. Every morning I put him in his jumperoo and he poops up his back :wacko: Then later he poops when we're out at a store or running errands... without fail, when I don't have a place to change him and end up changing him on the passenger seat of our car!

Kellen, sounds like you all got a bug :( I hope everyone feels better!

Sierra, I don't know about dehydration, but it seems like it should be fine if you're breastfeeding. He may just want a couple extra feeds? I don't know, really. I don't think babies sweat much, so he shouldn't lose much fluid that way. I worry the most about sun exposure, since they say not to give them any UV until 6 months. What do you guys do about that? I usually just wait until the evening to take the girls to the park, and then stand in the shade with Max while DH chases the girls around. If we happen to go to the zoo or something I leave Max in the stroller with his "Ray shade" on... it's the coolest thing that goes on the stroller with 50 spf rating. It looks SUPER dorky though.


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## SierraJourney

I usually put a thin long sleeved shirt on Camden, along with a hat and sunglasses. However, with the heat being in the 90s, I think I'll just forego the long sleeves, and use an umbrella, sunglasses, and hat. It'll be sooo nice once we can use sunscreen. . . lol


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## SierraJourney

Has anyone thought about when/if to have the next one? Camden has been such a difficult baby that we were considering stopping at 1. However, we both want Camden to have a sibling. We have agreed since the beginning that we would discuss baby #2 when Camden is 6 months old. Well that is coming up here quickly! lol... I'm sure we'd wait a bit longer anyways--and I still haven't had a period-- but it just got me thinking... Anyone else planning on the next one?


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## wamommy

oh gosh, nope. We're done. I love the dynamic of our family right now, and how the girls dote on and adore Max. I feel stretched to my limit though, and really don't think we could handle another financially or time-wise. 

That said, I LOVE the close age gap between my girls, and if I had it to do again I wouldn't change a thing. Actually, if anything I would make the gap CLOSER (they're 18 months apart). They play so incredibly well together now. Sierra, I know Camden has been hard.. I can't imagine how hard... but I'd say go for it for #2 :D By the time it's born Camden will be a different kid... walking, talking, playing independently. I'm bias, though :haha: Only you know what's best for your family.

I weighed myself today, and I've GAINED half a pound this week. I've been working out like a mad-woman, and am very discouraged. I'll keep going, because I love feeling stronger and more like my old self, but I really wish these last 10 pounds would leave, already. I've never had a hard time dropping weight in my life, and in fact my family thought I had an eating disorder for the past 10 years because I am naturally very thin. Walking around with a "pooch" is getting really old. Sorry for the moan. I'm just having one of those "poor me" days :blush:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! My DH and his brother are about 16 months apart, and also says it's a great gap to have. So, we will probably start trying here in the near future, but still have to discuss it. Work is the big thing right now--because I work from home full time while I care for Camden. . .so not sure how that would work with TWO kids! ;) My sister is pregnant right now too with her second one... so I don't want to rain on her parade either, so we will see... 

I completely understand about the pooch! Mine won't go away either---no matter how hard I exercise! I've started giving up. . .though I cringe whenever I look at it or can't where slimmer fitting clothing. . . I've always been thin, too. . .so having the extra weight makes me feel a bit less pretty at times. . . It depends on the day---there are definitely some days where I feel like I look pretty dang good for birthing an 8lb 7 oz baby 5 months ago! :lol:


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## Kellen

I want to be all done having kids, but DH would like a son. We've discussed it and have agreed that if we still want to try for a boy when Teagen starts school in 5 years then that will be a good time. As an only child I enjoyed more freedoms that my friends with siblings did. However, DH is 364 days younger than his 3rd oldest brother (he is #4 of 6) so he'd at least like one more... he would really like to have 6 kids, but I told him that is not happening.

DH and my dad are still battling the illness I passed along. I don't know if it is because I'm a) younger, b) a woman, or c) a mom that I was done being sick after 7 hours.

Teagen is going through a growth spurt and eating every hour. Last night I finally ended up bringing her to bed with us because she wanted to eat every two hours. Sleep nursing is the best! Now she is laying on the bed next to me babbling and sucking on her toes. I wish I was flexible enough to stick my entire foot in my mouth.


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## DragonflyWing

We're probably going to have at least one more kid, but not for a couple of years. I think we'll start seriously considering it when the twins are around 2 or 3.

Any other bottle fed babies holding their own bottles? Lily just started doing this, and now unless she's really tired, she refuses to let anyone feed her...she MUST do it herself. She's not strong enough to hold a full bottle for a long time, so we put about 2 ounces in it, and then keep refilling it until she's done. She seems to have so much fun with it, and it really frees up some time for us!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, Camden tries to hold his own night time bottle... but can't get it angled correctly so I have to help him. :)


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## wamommy

Max tries to hold his own bottle (and almost fights me for it sometimes) but he's not coordinated enough and ends up flinging it on the floor, in his own face, flipping it upside down, etc! I think he's probably a few weeks out from actually feeding himself. Well, done, Lilja!

Helena, I hope your trip is going wonderfully! :D


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## Kellen

Ditto, Helena. I hope that all your kiddos (DH included) are behaving well and having a good time. I hope your mom is doing better too and that the kids were able to give her lots of hugs.

Bottle feeding... Teagen scoffs at bottles. Yep, she refuses them completely. However, she will drink out of a water bottle or sippy cup. She is able to hold it by herself about 50% of the time. The other 50% she drops it on her face, flings it on the floor or whacks me with it.

Today I was good and finished 50% of my school work before hopping on BnB. Well, actually everything that is due today is finished. But I'm going to try to finish Sunday's assignment now as well. AF is scheduled to return next week and I'm PMSing like there is no tomorrow. It doesn't help that Teagen wanted to eat every 2 hours last night and DH is acting prissy. But all of that could be due to raging hormones! I am looking forward to tonight though. Our old pastor (who married us!) and his wife are going to be in town for dinner. DH and I are going to take a back route to the restaurant on the motorcycle and my parents are taking Teagen in their car.


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## helena

Hi girls!! Hello from Emgland! 

So exciting you are thinking of number two Sierra :) two years between my first two and 2.5 years between my second and third. I love it. Like Wamommy I am maxed out now but I am sure it will be great as they age. My two eldest play great (also bicker great ) now. There was five years between my brother and I and I didn't like him at all or play with him. Maybe when I was 18 I decided he as ok! Now its great.

Our journey through France was ok....
The first day we drove 7 hours with just one 45 minute break. By god that was a loud journey...my 5 year old is so impatient. and they were so excited..I was declaring I would ever make the trip again!
But then we stopped for 3 days and then we drove 3 hours, took the ferry for 1.5, the drove another 2.5. And it was all fine that day. 

Kiara is a star. She didnt cry unless hungryor wanting her pacifier. She has mostly slept great in the pack n play and is so adaptable and full of smiles.

Saw my mum today. She was ok, still far too skinny and not enough hair, but ok, smiling and putting a brave face on maybe. But ok. Not greatly worse at least. My kids weren't at all phased by her lack of hair. They really are brilliant. She read them stories :)

The house we rented in France was great. Very ultra modern, all mod cons. had toys for the kids, a bike for my eldest, a sit on tractor for my middle son in the grden. they were both so happy.
Now we are in a little English cottage. Very quaint and so different from the first. But the kids love it. Hopefully it will be a good week. We are right next to a river in a village whe i used to play as a kid, and right near a pub so DH is happy - he goes to teh bar and brings the drinks back to us here :) 

https://pbckt.com/pg.QFJC3f

It's the inlaws tomorrow....wish me luck...catch up soon. I love having you ladies there to check in with..xxxxx


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena, that sounds so lovely!! What a wonderful pic, too. It's good to hear that your Mom had good time with the kids, and that Kiara hung in there for the long drive. It sounds like quite a success to me! Here's to a safe trip home :flower:


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## Jo_Bean

Hello ladies. Sorry I've not been around much. So nice to hear some of you are up for more babies!! We're NTNP and have been since having Olivia. Just because it took 5 years to et pregnant with her, so we aren't putting any obstacles in the way. 

O is doing really well. We've started weaning her and she is doing so much better with food than she did with bottles! Everyone is surprised at her improvements and she's getting stronger every day!

I have been checking in but sorry I'm so bad at posting. 

It's lovely that everyone still pops in here :D


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## Kellen

Helena - It sounds like you are having a good time on your vacation. I hope that the trip home is just as successful. That is a wonderful picture. I hope your mom gets to feeling better, but I'm glad that the kids were not overly affected.

Jo - I'm glad to hear that Miss O is thriving and doing well. I wish you and your DH the best on NTNP. Who knows? A friend of whose wife who gave birth on Feb 6th of this year is now expecting #3 in December. He said he'll be getting the snip-snip pretty soon if his wife doesn't do it for him first!

Not a whole lot going on here. Just really hot! Today was miserable as it was terribly muggy with thunderstorms rolling in. Next week DH and I are driving up to Portland. It is only a 4 hour trip, but we'll see how Teagen does.

We have begun adding a few more solids in to her diet as she gets quite angry and indigent when the adults have real food and she does not. I found a chair similar to the Bumbo that comes with a try and activity center. We'll be ordering it on Friday when DH gets paid. :woot: I also get to get a haircut on Friday. Teagen thinks it is hilarious when I do hair flips at her and pretend to be headbanging to metal. But so far avocado is her favorite food followed closely by watermelon.

We had three nights of Teagen waking up every 2 hours for a feed. I'm not sure if it was a growth spurt or what, but it was not my cup of tea. Kudos to you who dealt with this or are still dealing with it. Thankfully we are back to sleeping from 7pm-7:30am with a feed at 5:30am. 

My grandma bought T a doll that giggles. I personally find it the most annoying thing ever created, but she loves it. It's name is apparently "Aga" as that is what Teagen says every time she sees it and reaches for it. She also has a stuffed caterpillar from the Eric Carle book "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" that is fondly known as "Ack."


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## Kellen

So today I am being a horrible student and hopping on here first. Mostly because I didn't run away to the library or the coffee shop today, but rather ran away to the "big house." 

I had a meltdown. We found out today that DH's insurance people neglected to add Teagen onto his plan in March :dohh: and are now unable to do it or back date the coverage. Great! Now we owe her pediatrician here for visits and the NICU doctor. Awesome! I cried, DH held me, I lamented what a terrible person I am, he told me that wasn't true... Basically I just feel overwhelmed with crappy finances right now.

Thankfully my parents have agreed to babysit tonight and Drew and I are running away to the movies for a couple of hours. I also applied for state help with Teagen's insurance so hopefully that will come through. If not we can officially add her to the insurance in October during open enrollment. Although I'm hoping Drew has a better job by then with different insurance.

In other news Teagen can crawl. The only hitch is she hasn't figured out how to go forward! It is fairly hilarious. She gets this terribly confused look on her face as she goes backwards and further away from her toys. :rofl: Poor baby...


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## wamommy

Jo, I'm so glad Olivia is doing well :D It's exciting that you're NTNP too! I'll bet it doesn't take long for #2 since your body is practiced now. How fun!

Kellen, how stressful about the insurance. I'm so sorry. Finances can be SO stressful and especially when there's an unexpected strain. I hope the movie was fun, though! I haven't seen a movie in the theater in more than 5 years :haha: I really should get out more.

i can't believe Teagen is crawling! Backward, but still! Max attempts to move forward, but just sort of "swims" in place on his tummy...lol. He's become a super athletic jumper, though. In his jumperoo he gets going crazily and launches way off the floor. It's fun to watch.

I thought for sure Max would LOVE fruit. Who doesn't, right? He doesn't... not really. Apples are ok, but the rest make him a little angry. :rofl: He loves vegetables, though. LOVES peas. Last night he was grabbing the spoon to try to yank it into his mouth faster if I was taking too long. DH also dipped his finger in mustard and let Max taste a little. I thought he would cry, but he loved it! Weird kid.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, Do you have any documentation that you told your health care providers that you wanted Teagen added? I was talking to DH (who works in health insurance) and he said that if you have documentation that you had asked for them to add her, then they should cover her. Also, even if you didn't ask, health insurance (at least here in Michigan), HAVE to cover the first 30 days of baby's life automatically. . .meaning NICU bills, etc. I'm not sure how it works over where you are, but that's how it works over here (and believe me, DH knows his ins and outs of health insurance! :) I hope there is something that can be done. Fight it if you can. Those bills have to be so outrageous. :(

Camden is still not very mobile. . .he rolled over from back to belly last weekend. . .but only once and I think it was a fluke. . .and it took him about 5 minutes to move there. lol He's not even rolling from belly to back yet. 

We started him on cereal, but he's not completely sure on that, either. . .lol. I think he just enjoys being a tiny baby right now! :lol: No need to grow up! Phhh. :)

Any one have any tips on how to get baby to nap? I've probably posted this before, but Camden's naps are getting worse, I think. . . AND, he is super whiney all day recently because he's tired. BUT, the only way I can get him to nap is to nurse him to sleep, turn on a particular CD, and put him in his swing. This works maybe 50% of the time, probably once a day. I've tried so much to get him to nap. I've tried doing his bedtime routine (which he sleeps great at night), putting him in his crib, white noise, pacifiers, little lovey toys, etc. I've even tried to put him down drowsy, let him cry for 5 minutes, go and comfort him, let him cry for 10 minutes, comfort him, etc. . .but I can't go more than 10 minutes (and I'm not sure if that's okay?), and he gets SO worked up---tears streaming down his face, screaming until his face is red, etc. I KNOW he's tired, but I dno't know how to get him to nap. (Obviously he usually gets one nap a day from my nursing him to sleep, but that's it). And he's been like this since birth! I'll probably post this on the Baby Club board, too. . but wondered if you ladies have any suggestions/tips?


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Max sounds like a very independently minded little guy. Silly baby! Doesn't he know that you need to fight him to eat veggies and bribe him with fruit? lol And mustard is awesome! Teagen gets mad too if she doesn't get her food fast enough. 

Sierra - Thanks for the tips on the health care. I will look into what rules are in place for Georgia (where we were). And we still have the paperwork that DH faxed to prove that we had had a baby. Thankfully my insurance that I had while working for the state covered a lot of it, but not all. We are still left paying about $4,000 out of $65,000. Not bad, but not great either. Besides she needs insurance for her current visits to the pediatrician here.

Today we should be receiving https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NJC5QY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00? It will be great to have Teagen sitting at the table with us. We are also going on a trip starting Wednesday. This should solve the problem of what to do with Teagen while eating out.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I love the chair! We've been feeding Max on the table in his bumbo or on my lap :haha: I have his chair ready to go, but I'm not sure he's physically ready for it. He might face plant into the table! I was going to pass DD#2's chair down to Max, but last week we found a practically NEW one online. I'm super excited. This is what we used for both girls and it worked so well at restaurants or grandma's house too. Our table that we eat dinner at is tall. so normal high chairs would leave him a couple feet below us :wacko:
 



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## SierraJourney

Ooo! I love those seats! So cool! We are just using a highchair that has an option to be a booster. .. but it's be nice to have something portable to use at restaurants.. .. right now he usually sits in my lap when we go out and I have to fight him in order to keep my food on my plate. :)


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## Kellen

SierraJourney said:


> right now he usually sits in my lap when we go out and I have to fight him in order to keep my food on my plate. :)

This is what I'm having to do with Teagen too! The chair we were supposed to get today (unfortunately wildfires in the area are closing a bunch of roads due to smoke...) is very portable and can attach to any chair so we'll be able to take it out to eat. I've also been looking at a canvass one sort of like the one you posted, Wamommy, just to keep in the car.

Little Miss Teagen can basically sit unassisted... if she doesn't realize that she is doing it. :dohh: Once she realizes no one is holding her she'll slowly slouch sideways and keep leaning until she either a) goes to her tummy on the ground or b) gets a reaction from an adult and is helped back up.

Sierra - I don't know what to tell you about naps. Teagen nurses herself to sleep for naps still, but since I don't work it is okay for us. She will also take naps in the swing for DH or be rocked to sleep by my mom. If I try any of those options she yells until I feed her. But at night we do our bedtime routine and I can put her in her crib sleepy, but awake and she'll drift off without a fuss. We don't have a routine for naps... they happen whenever I start seeing tired signs. Good luck! :hugs:

The air quality here stinks! We had to wear fine particulate masks outside because of all the ash. Tons of warnings on the TV about not working outside. I am glad that we are going on a mini-vacation starting Wednesday. One of the major fires is only 10 miles from us. We couldn't even see the sun today.


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## Kellen

This is about a week early, but here is a picture of Teagen embracing BLW! After she finished we took a second bath for the day. Earlier she had noshed on some freshly picked blackberries from the back pasture.
 



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## helena

Lovely picture! She looks happy. what is the green? amd great chair!
oh and well done Taegan on crawling! Brilliant! We aren't there yet. Kiara has started moving by pushing herself along on her back using her feet, and when on her tummy she is trying to pull herself along but hasn't got her knees under her yet. I can see she I'd desperate to start chasing her brothers around.
We got back from our holiday yesterday. The drive went ok. Seeing Family was lovely. Mum was ok. still not great but a little happeir and that is enough for me. Kiara got to meet three great grandparents while we were away so that was excellent.
Disney land on the way back was great. We all had our photo with Buzz Lightyear :)
Kiara was a star throughout. She slept great in each place we stayed, though she woke early once or twice, and only cried in the car when hungry. She is such a good girl.

I have started adding finger food into her diet more. Today she sucked on a chunk of chicken breast and each day she has half a slice of toast after fruit and cereal for breakfast now. It is her favourite thing in the world. After mummy :)

I am hoping to wait another two weeks or so, until Kiara is 6 months plus her three weeks of being early, and then I will cut all night feeds. When we were away she was happy to go from 7pm until 4 or 5 am. She is eating a lot so that probably helps.

Photo of her on her six month "birthday" https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_42290603.jpg

Oh Jo, exciting to think of another pregnancy potentially on the horizon one day.
Found out today that a close friend is 7 weeks :)


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## wamommy

What gorgeous girls!!! I love seeing how the babies are growing :D I'll have to post a pic of Max in the next week or so. Happy 6 months to everyone's little ones! Dragon, the twins are close to 8 months now? Amazing, huh?? Time really does fly.

Helena, I'm so happy you made it home safely and that the trip was a success. I'm sure it's a memory the boys will treasure! I so wish we were able to take a trip like that. Even if the kids could make it, we're not in a financial position to go. I would love it, though! I miss adventures like that.

I feel like poor Max is behind in the food department. We don't give him nearly enough opportunities to explore new foods. I really will try to change that. So far chewing on cold apple slices and carrots are his favorite things. 

Helena, how exciting about your friend :D A friend of mine just had her baby July 9th and he's SO cute. Her husband went out and bought a repsol Honda 600rr though (a motorcycle) and she's freaking out that he'll crash it. IT wouldn't be so scary except that he's a really severe type 1 diabetic and is prone to passing out or spacing out to a scary degree. 

Are you finished having babies, Helena? I went on the pill when I stopped breastfeeding, but forgot how much I don't like it. I feel yucky on the pill. My skin looks ruddy and breaks out and I always feel bloated. It's like permanent pms :haha: I might just advocate for abstinence instead! :rofl:


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## wamommy

Sierra, I just read your post on naps. Sorry I didn't answer sooner! I actually don't have any great advice... unfortunately. Max's naps are really random and happen pretty naturally. We don't have a set routine or anything. Usually I can tell he's getting tired because he gets fussy and doesn't want to do anything. His normal activities seem to irritate him. If I take him in a quiet room and rock him or go for a short drive in the car he goes out like a light. I can then transfer him to his pack n play on his tummy for an hour or so. I'd say he probably takes 2-3 naps a day like that. I wish I had better advice! Each kid is so different, and they change so often that what works today might not tomorrow... lol.


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## helena

I agree with wamommy - what works today might not work tomorrow as they change so fast. 
I think it is easy tog et caught up in stressing out about getting into a routine. But each week baby is older and their sleep and feed requirements change.so the routine would change. I realized this after I felt stressed with my first. I worked really hard getting into routines. I felt very proud of myself for about a week and then the little devil would have a growth spurt and my hard work would go right out of the window and I would have to work hard all over again. It was pretty futile.
Fr me the only part of routine that is regular is bedtime. The rest falls in. Usually she naps at some point in the morning, maybe 10ish, then again after lunch and maybe one later in the afternoon, sometimes not. I take her cues, she rubs her eyes or cries. Ten she will nap in bed if we are at home, or in the car seat or stroller if out. Se can sleep ages, or just twenty minutes at a time. Yesterday was three twenty minute naps.

It seems she sleeps best in slightly noisy places (she put herself to bed at 7pm as usual even at Disneyland! Slept in the stroller despite all the noise!)
Will camden sleep in the car? I did use that with my sons when they were really fighting sleep.

Think we are. In another growth spurt or wonder week...Kiara is waking twice in the night to practice moving around and when I go in to put in her pacifier and give h her comforter she grins at me. Only milk will get her to doze off and stop playing...so she fed twice last night! Not so good on the hoping to stop night feeds front!...
Great that max loves peas!

It is exciting about my pregnant friend. She was ttc at the same time as us and had a loss at 9 weeks so am hoping this one is sticky! It seems unfair we we ttc at the same time and Kiara is now a big chunk of baby..


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## SierraJourney

Thank you ladies! Sounds like Camden is especially difficult in more than one area! lol All of my family keeps telling me that I got the fussy high needs baby out of the way in the beginning and the babies after him will be a breeze! haha. I sure love him, though! :) I just have to start thinking creatively about naps, I guess. . .he's getting a bit big for the swing but hates his pack n play and crib for naps! He'd nap all day on me if I let him (which I don't mind, but am not sure that's the best thing for him!) :) 

Still just doing cereal for him here. . .taking things slowly. . .though he eats great! Hopefully introducing veggies soon. Love hearing about your explorations with different foods--and the pictures are gorgeous---sooo cute!


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## Kellen

Glad to hear everyone is doing great. Sketchy internet service as we have evacuated north to escape yhe smoke. The green smashed all over T is the remnants of an avocado.


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## Kellen

Okay. We are stopped and have decent internet now.

Helena - It sounds like you had a fantastic time on your trip. I'm glad that Kiara was such a good girl for you. Hooray for growth spurts and new sleep cycles. And it sounds like she is quite the little foodie.

Wamommy - I'm pretty sure my DH thinks that I'm an advocate for abstinence as well. Besides being difficult to find time alone I am so tired by the end of the day that I'm in bed by 10pm and DH stays up until midnight or so. He knows better than to try to wake me as I will become rather unpleasant to be around.

Teagen is cutting her first tooth. Yesterday morning DH and I were eating breakfast at our hotel and he was letting Teagen chew on his knuckle while I quickly ate. All of a sudden he pulls his finger out and says "OUCH!" Really loud... as in other people turned to look. Then proceeds to do his best Monty Python impersonation: "Fangs! She's got razor sharp fangs!" Which turned into me searching her mouth for the tooth.

But we are now staying 2.5 hours from out house due to terrible smoke from wild fires.


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## helena

Yay Kiara went from 7pm until 6 am without food or milk, hurrah! I have warned her that now I know she can do it once, I will be expecting the same every night.
Unfortunately I did have to go in and settle her once in that time, and DH went in early in the evening, but maybe one day she will sleep all night!..

Oh I feel guilty, how is max sleeping now wamommy? ;)

Oh I wouldn't fancy going on the pill either. It makes me headachey and rubbish feeling. A abstinence and general exhaustion works wonders for us! :)

I have my second appointment the week after next with a genetic oncologist to discuss avoidance of breastcaner and ovarian cancer. If they consider me high risk i may push for ovary removal which would have the bonus of being contraception too :)
Slightly extreme maybe but there we go. It would make me feel safer for the future.

Baby wise I would love a fourth. But I would want another girl. I never had s a preference for a particular sex with any of my babies, so I won't go for a fourth incase I have a boy and even though I would love him to bits I wouldn't want any of my children to be a disappointment in any way even for a split second. Plus DH isn't keen! Lol. Ad our first boy is s very demanding. If I got another of him I don't think we would cope! Lol.

Serra, having the tricky child first and then breezy babies is definately the best :)


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## helena

Edit: We have a TOOTH! Well, a tiny corner of one. Feels just like a bit of grit on her gum. That explains her grumpiness yesterday! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Hey everyone, sorry I've been MIA. I was off from work for a week and a half while my family visited from NY. My mom spent the entire week criticising my parenting skills, my housekeeping, even told me I'm not taking good enough care of DH! By the time they left, I was a wreck, and actually really glad to see them go. DH is on the rampage because my parents tried to "help" by moving his things around and throwing away some of his important papers, even though I specifically asked them not to move or throw anything away without asking first. :growlmad:

On a more happy note, the twins are doing great...they are such happy babies. They're starting to sit up on their own for longer periods, and laughing and smiling all the time. Kellen- Teagan looks so cute eating her avocado! We have the same seat/activity center, but we had to take the orange insert out immediately because chunky monkey Gunnar didn't fit in it :haha:. Here are some photos from the park this past weekend:
 



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## wamommy

Helena, good luck with your appointment next week :hugs: how tough! I'm so glad to hear Kiara is sleeping so well, though! Max is actually doing better, believe it or not... thank goodness!! He goes to sleep around 9pm and wakes at 1 to eat, then back down until 4 or 5 when he gets up to eat and then sleeps another hour or 2 before being up for the day. Hey, coming from where we were, 2 or 3 wakes in a night is fab! :haha:

Dragonfly, it sounds like it was a tough week. Family can be so wonderful, and at the same time so difficult. I don't think I would handle that kind of criticism very well at all. On the plus side, the babies look great! I'm glad to hear they are so happy :) 

Hurray for teeth!! None for Max, yet. He chews on my knuckle constantly, so I figure I'll feel it when one pops through. I can't believe how big they are all getting!


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## Kellen

Helena - Congrats on the tooth! It is so interesting to watch two babies develop at the same time in completely different geographical locations.

Dragon - The twins are adorable! I'm sorry that you had a miserable time with your parents. My mom is fighting with my grandma right now so they are using me as the go-between... ugh!

Wamommy- I am glad to hear that Max is being somewhat nicer about sleep.

Now my cranky, teething baby is whining for a nap. We have her 6 month check up tomorrow.


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## SierraJourney

Love the pictures Dragon! What fun! I have a park down from me with those types of swings. . .now I'm wanting to try Camden in them! :) Sorry to hear about your parents criticizing! And I can't believe they were saying you aren't taking good enough care of DH! You have TWO babies to take care of and you're working! My goodness! I often feel that DH gets neglected around here, but then I am reminded that it is the stage in our life. . .we're both tired and just trying to survive with a baby . . haha.

No teeth here yet. . .and Camden has been showing "signs" of teething for months now . . .so who knows when they'll come!

For all of you who are feeding baby foods now. . .how often do you give them food? And do you give them cereal at certain times of the day and food other times? We've been giving Camden cereal in the evening, and I just started to give it to him at lunch, too. . .but have been thinking of starting him a vegetable at lunch instead. But I'm unsure how often I should be giving food to him? Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner? Snacks? I'd love to hear what you ladies are doing!


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## wamommy

We don't have a set schedule for eating with Max. He definitely gets the majority of his calories from bottles. We mostly give Max food to make him feel included in our meals. When I'm eating something and he starts to drool and grab at my spoon, I go get him something to have a few bites of. Usually he eats 4-5 bites and then loses interest and is ready to get out of his seat :dohh: I think as time goes on and he masters swallowing instead of spitting, we'll feed him more and more "meals." I just try to follow his queues for now, if you know what I mean :D

Has everyone had their 6 month check-ups now? How are all of the babies doing? Max's pediatrician is out of town for a MONTH, so we won't see him until August 27th. I'm afraid this will mess up our vaccination schedule, but they said that unless it gets off by a full month they won't schedule a separate appointment for the jab. I'm sure it will be fine, although at this age they grow SO fast that the percentile calculation will be off by then!!

Also, what is everyone doing for car seats? Are you still in an infant seat or transitioning to a convertible? My girls were both in Recaro convertibles by 6 months and forward facing in that seat until just recently, when we bought them both the larger Recaro that converts from 5-point harness to booster at 90 pounds. Basically it'll be used until the girls are 9 or 10, so totally worth the investment!! My 3-year-old's outgrown seat is still WELL within the expiration date, though, so I'm thinking of just ordering a new cover for it (that isn't pink and trashed). The only problem is that I've found it so handy to pop Max's infant seat into our stroller and shop without waking him. I just want to make sure he's as safe as possible, since I think he's nearing the weight limit for our seat... hmm...


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy. Camden's six month checkup is next week. He's still in his infant carrier and will be for quite some time... it goes to 30 pounds and he's only 14 pounds right now! I love the convenience of it and the safety of rear facing. What weight limit does your seat go up to?


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## wamommy

Mine only goes to 22 pounds :grr: Also, only 29 inches. Max is about 20 pounds now blush:) I'm thinking we only have another month or 2 to safely use our seat. If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a different seat! I know a lot of them are rated to 30 pounds. We'll still keep him rear facing until after at least a year, but in a bigger seat that does both rear and forward facing. I actually just got off the phone and a new cover for our seat is $75.00!! Yikes.


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## helena

Hi,
We haven't had the six month check up yet. Our Russian doc was on holiday for a month!

Kiara has three meals a day. It's all flexible but an average day could be:

8am breakfast - 1 apple, 1 kiwi mushed up with added cereal to thicken (that was today's choice). plus 1 slice of toast. Little bit of butter on. 
And maybe a small baby yogurt if she is still going. 

Other days she may have baby cereal / porridge and toast.
It is her biggest meal of the day.

10am ish bottle

Lunch - 12 ish with the family. Cup sized bowl of mushed up fruit vege or our lunch if suitable. Maybe some finger food at same time, bread or meat or packet baby snacks or biscuits.

2 ish bottle

Dinner - 5pm with her brothers. Same as them if its suitable, or often I give her porridge and another pot of fruit or yogurt to fill her up.

6.30 - 7pm bottle

Sometimes if she hasn't had enough milk I will swap her evening meal and milk around. I haven't sorted that one out yet.

5 nights out of 7 she doesn't feed again in the night.

Her bottles are usually 180 but she doesn't always finishe them.

I think she is a big eater but i'm not sure..
She can fully chew and swallow now. She only dribbles or spits out lots if purée is too soft, so I thicken with powdered cereal.


I haven't even thought about car seat upgrade.. Should check what our maxi cosi goes up to! Thanks x


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## SierraJourney

Wow Helena- that sounds great! You have a good eater there it sounds like!


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## helena

Greedy maybe ;) 
If it was up to Kiara I think she would live off baby cereal and bread. 
I used to have a Norwegian friend living near by and that is pretty much all their babies eat for two of the daily meals. I guess it's filling, full of added vitamins and milk. The cereal / porridge at least. It is what I think has built our baby chub rolls :)

Kiara fell today. She was trying to sit, and i had my legs either side of her, but mean mummy glanced away and bump, she fell forwards! She was very very upset about it....cried for ages and was so angry. no bump or cuts, so we have a very dramatic sensitive girl on our hands I fear! I am sure there will be plenty more screams before balance gets sorted.....


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## SierraJourney

Awww! Poor baby! I'm pretty sure Camden is a sensitive one too...so they are in good company! ;). He hasn't fallen yet but I've bumped 
him before while carrying him and that was bad enough for me :(


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## wamommy

Helena, the Maxi Cosi Mico goes to 22 pounds and the Prezi goes to 30, so it just depends which one you have. When we bought the Mico the Prezi wasn't out yest, dang it! It's so much cooler looking, too :dohh:

It sounds like Kiara is quite an eater! That's great :D It will benefit her later in life to like to try new foods and experiment. I read an interesting article the other day about why AMericans all like bland, salty foods, and it talked about how in other cultures babies eat whatever their parents eat, even spicy or strong flavors. Apparently the least picky eaters in the world are in Korea, where snacks aren't allowed and children (even babies) eat what's for dinner or don't eat. I'm sure there's a happy medium, but I know I should encourage more experimenting! 

Poor Kiara with the fall. I'm sure there will be many more :( Good for her for trying to sit, though! Max just slumps to the side when I try it, lol. That, or reaches straight for his foot and topples forward.

We're taking the girls bike riding today! I'm so excited. My 3-year-old can finally steer well enough to not run people off the trail :haha: I'll have to walk along behind pushing Max in his stroller, but I'm excited for the girls to get riding. They're growing up so much! My oldest starts Kindergarten in a month *gasp*. It feels like yesterday that she was born! So proud.


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## Kellen

Helena - That is wonderful that Kiara is such a good eater. I'm going to start doing more of a meal schedule with Teagen if possible. How do you give her meat? I'm stuck at how to add that into Teagen's current diet. Since I have a dairy allergy and a slight reaction to eggs our pediatrician said to hold off on yogurt or other dairy products until after 12 months. Right now we just do tons of fruits and veggies. 

Wamommy - Congrats to your girls! It must be exciting to watch them becoming more grown up, but sad at the same time.

I've bumped Teagen's head a couple of times. She'll pull a face and if I don't react then she'll just smile and move on. She's a tough little cookie. This morning she sat, unassisted for a whole 30 seconds. I was so proud! She has also started mimicking the sign language we have been doing with her. She hasn't quite done it in context, but we praise her every time she signs and explain what it means.

We have a convertable carseat in my parents car that can be rear facing up to 45lb and a Chico infant seat in our car that goes up to 30lb. In Oregon she has to be rearfacing until she is 1 and weighs 20lb.

Yesterday was our 6 month check up. She weighed 18lbs (90%) and was 28in (off the charts) and her head was in the 75%. She got her last set of shots until 12 months. The doctor's assistant was impressed as Teagen didn't cry at all during her shots. I even tried to offer my breast afterwards in case she needed some comfort, but she refused and just wanted to play :dohh: She actually cries more when we put clothes on her...

Tomorrow we are headed down the coast into California back to where I was born in order to pick up a squeeze shoot. While on the way I'm planning to have us stop at one of the beautiful spots on the coast and let Teagen have her first splash in the Pacific. We are also going to be starting baby swim lessons in a week or so. They are in the mornings when DH doesn't have to work, twice a week. So I think I'll let him take her to one and I'll go to the other.


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## helena

Kiara has meat added in purrees (lunch today was puréed spaghetti bologna ish cooked with baby friendly stock cubes) or I have given her big chunks of meat to chew on and old - chicken breast or a slice of whatever the boys have. She mostly just chews it. I guess it's a meaty teethe!?

She doesn't always eat so well but if baby cereal is on offer she will :)

Well done Taegan on good size and weigh-in! Greg work mummy. 
I can't wait to see where we are up to. It's like having an appraisal at work..have I squeezed enough milk etc in to her!? :) I think we are about 17 pounds but quite short. Bt that's just a guess :)

Enjoy the swimming lessons! Wish we had something like that.


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## wamommy

Yes, swimming lessons would be so fun! There are a couple of pools around my house. I should really look into lessons for the whole family. Learning how to swim is invaluable and helps keep the kiddos safe. Not to mention, it's totally fun :)

I've been trying new foods with Max and he's such a character about food. He gags when he doesn't like something, and almost dry heaves :dohh: What a little drama prince! Apparently avocado is an acquired taste. I so hoped he'd like it. I did read that you have to expose a child to a new taste 3 times before knowing if they really like it or not. I'll keep trying, because I have a bunch of avocado in the freezer, smashed and ready to go!

Knock on wood, but last night was Max's best night of sleep EVER! HE actually made it 1am-6am without waking! I'm still exhausted, because I didn't go to bed until after 1am, but even with only 5 hours of sleep it makes SUCH a huge difference to sleep through. I hope he's on a roll and the stretch will get longer and longer. Yay Max :D


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## helena

Yay max well done! now to work on you going to bed earlier!!

Kiara has been ill for the last few days. She got a bug from her brother - fever, sore throat. Very unhappy little lady. She would only sleep in my bed in my arms! Today she is mostly better and so I am hoping for better sleep myself :)


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## DragonflyWing

I think I'm in the two week wait, guys. DH and I dtd last night, and in the heat of the moment, we didn't use a condom. I didn't think I was near ovulation, so I didn't think it was a big risk. However, today I've had ovulation pain all day, and ewcm too. Sooooo we could possibly have made a baby last night.

At this point that's pretty terrifying lol. I guess we'll find out in 2 weeks!


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## wamommy

Eeeep!! So exciting, Dragonfly! Are you hoping for another? If so, fingers crossed! I can't help but root for more little Dragons :haha:

As for me, I've been on the pill (Ortho tri-cyclen) Hating it, but feel confident in not having another. Don't get me wrong, that makes me a bit sad! Being "done" having babies is full of mixed emotions. 

Helena, I hope Kiara is feeling better. Poor little miss :( 

Mr Max is getting his first tooth! I felt the rough edge on his bottom gum. Poor guy. He's been way fussier than normal, but still such a sweet guy. I'm just loving the little boy he's becoming.


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## SierraJourney

Helena, sorry to hear Kiara is ill. :( that's so hard! : (

Dragon--that's terrifying, I'm sure---but also how exciting!! DH and I have been discussing possibly only having one child. Right now, with how fussy and high-needs Camden has been, we don't know if we could handle another child. . .and on top of that, we've been really tight financially since having Camden, so are not sure we can afford another child until the income goes up a bit (maybe in a few years). I'm sure all of this will change at some point, but for now, we are on the pill and praying it works! ;)

Congrats on the first tooth wamommy! So exciting! Camden has been drooling tons--soaking the fronts of his shirts--and has a slight temp. . .so I'm wnodering if it's coming for him, too. Who knows.. . .

We're still struggling with naps these days. . I've ordered a book on a new sleep method so hopefully that comes soon and helps me out! Now, the only place I can get him to nap is on me after he has nursed and he only naps for like 15 minutes! :( He's sooooo tired. . .but nothing works--not even the CIO method (and believe me, I've tried. . .and I've felt horrible listening to him cry for so long. . .but he will cry for hours and never nap). . .I'm exhausted and feel so bad that he isn't getting the rest he needs. . but am very much at a loss with how to get him to nap? :( (BTW, he's a GREAT sleeper at night! I nurse him to sleep, lay him in his crib, he looks up at me, and goes to sleep and stays asleep for 10 hours!) I have no idea why he won't do that for naps!


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## helena

I am amazed and impressed you have the energy for such passionate accidents :) there is no way in the world I am pregnant. I know that for a fact! Zzzzzzzz 

hoping you get the result you want, either way :) it's exciting. And so much easier second time around :)

Kiara is feeling better after three days of being really unhappy, needy, sore throated and hot. She is back to eating heaps and being happy and lovely. :)

I am a bit jealous of your 10 hour nights I must say Sierra!!
Some days we have just two 20 minute naps. I think we are down to two naps now.

Loving how sweet max is :) I am also so deeply in love with Kiara and her happy sweetness. I think maybe in comparison to the bigger kids the babies seem so angelic!? Give them a year or two...hehe


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## Kellen

Dragon - We will all be anxiously awaiting to hear back from you in two weeks. At least the twins would be over a year if you do end up pregnant. One of our friends is expecting another baby in January... their little boy was born Feb 5th of this year.

Wamommy - Max sounds like a darling. I'm glad that his sleep has somewhat improved.

Helena - I am sorry to hear the Kiara isn't feeling well, but glad to hear that she is still eating. How is that tooth coming along for her?

Sierra - That is a hard one. Teagen and I normally lay down on the bed together for naps. Right now she is in her crib fussing because she didn't want to sleep with me. We are doing gentle CC/CIO at bedtime so she knows what is what. I know how hard it is to listen to them cry. I hope that your new book can give you some advise.

Teagen's front bottom two teeth are officially through. You can really see them when she giggles so everyone here has been going out of their way to make her laugh. They are adorable. She was actually able to bite off chunks of an apple slice that I gave her today.

I opted for an IUD so hopefully it is working. Last month when I was throwing up (thanks to some mysterious stomach bug) I frantically sent DH a text asking him to pick up HPT just in case. Well, he didn't get the text before he came home so I never bothered. Pretty sure we're not. We will eventually try for another in the future, but not until our lives get sorted out a little bit more. DH is taking 8 weeks off in Sept-Oct to study to finish his BS. Then hopefully he'll be able to land a nice $80k/year.


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## wamommy

Yikes, the last couple days have been rough with Max. The poor guy is miserable with his first tooth coming in. He doesn't really cry, per se, but rather wails like a really cute (but loud) zombie. It's kind of this rising and falling Aaahhhhhaaaaahhhh sound. He grabs an object (toy, my finger, his own hand) and feverishly chews on it while raising the volume. My girls never really struggled this much with teeth. I guess all babies are different, or I just forgot! :haha:

Sierra, how are naps coming along?

Dragon, how many days until you test? I'm so impatient! :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Aww--poor Max! Can you see the tooth yet wamommy? Hopefully there is an end in sight for the poor dear!

Naps are slowly taking shape. .. (hopefully!) The last two days I was able to get him down for an hour nap (which is HUGE for us!) I've been using a book called "The No Cry Nap Solution" It has a lot of helpful insights which I have been using. I've gotten these two naps in his swing, but this weekend I'm going to work really hard to try to get them in his crib. It's a bit harder with him in his crib because it's not as confined and cozy as the swing. . .I don't think he likes the open space. :(

He had his 6 month check up on Wednesday. He's still a little one at 15 lbs 3 oz. . but doctor said that's good for him. :) He is 26 inches long. What do your lo's weigh?


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## wamommy

I can't quite see the tooth yet, but I can feel it with my finger. It's a little rough spot on an otherwise slippery gum. I'm hoping once it comes all the way through he gets some relief!

Good job with the naps, Sierra :) It sounds like you found the right solution for Camden. What a lucky little guy that you stick with it!! 

We don't have our 6-month check-up until Aug 27th, because our Dr is out of town. I weighed Max a while ago on our home scale, and he was 19.6 pounds :blush: I hate to think what he'll be by his appointment! It sounds like Camden and Teagen's appointments went well. Yay! :) 

Odd question, but do any of your LOs have tiny feet? I mean, obviously they have tiny feet, but TINY feet... even for a baby? Max is so big and has such little doll feet that people are starting to comment. Maybe the Japanese side? DH's mom wore a size 5.... but still. It looks a bit weird on his ham hock leg!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! We're trying! He's definitely been a very trying baby. . .my family has not quite seen a baby quite like him. . .lol. :haha: It makes him all that more special to me though. :)

You'll have to post a picture when that little tooth does show up---sooo darling!! 

I can't help you with the little feet thing. . .Camden has big feet and really long fingers---people always comment on how big his hands and feet are. haha. . . I think all babies grow parts at different rates. My friends baby has a really small head compared to his body. :) I think it's just their individualness. However, I'm sure the Japenese side has a bit to do with it. I'm jealous---we all have huge feet over here! :haha:

Max's weight sounds perfect. .. I know Camden is only in like the 10th percentile or something. . . poor guy. 

I'm trying to figure out what to do with DH. . .I think he feels a bit neglected. He keeps commenting how other people go out on dates and we don't . . .etc etc. The major reason why we haven't is because Camden has been so high needs. . .however, he is starting to get better with strangers, so I'm wondering if I need to step it up and make a date happen. (Though, truthfully, I'm really not looking forward to going out---I really don't want to be away from Camden. I mean, I want time with my husband, but I'm so attached to Camden, I worry if I'm ever away). . .However, I think it's really weighing on DH and I don't want our marriage to suffer. . . Any tips for a meaninful, yet maybe short date where I don't have to worry too much about baby and maybe where I don't have to pump while I'm out? Have any of you ladies been on dates with your DH yet?


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## DragonflyWing

I think a date night would be great for you and DH, Sierra! DH and I have gone out a handful of times without the babies...a few times when my mom and sister visited way back in February, once when DH's aunt was visiting, and once when DH's friend offered to babysit. Now my sister is living with us, so once she's comfortable watching both babies at once, I'm sure DH and I can have a date night once in a while.

I miss them when I'm gone, but I don't usually worry much. I guess I'm used to being away, as sad as that is, because of work. I had to take an overnight business trip Monday and Tuesday of this week, and that was my first night away from them. It was tough, but it was great coming home and seeing their big gummy smiles. 

The twins are starting to get a bit of separation anxiety. When they're upset or in pain (they've been teething quite a bit lately), they only want me. This poses a problem when I'm at work or otherwise unavailable. I've been up a lot in the night recently because if they wake up and DH goes to them, they won't settle and end up awake for hours. If I go to them, usually I can just replace a pacifier or pat them on the back, and they go right back to sleep.

DH has been getting really annoyed with it, because he spends hours trying to make them happy, and they just whine and cry and get all worked up...then I walk in and hold them for one minute and they're perfectly fine. Even when I do the same thing he's tried 5 times unsuccessfully. He keeps saying "How do you DO that?!" when I'm able to soothe them in 1/50th the time it takes him. I don't know how to answer, because I'm not doing anything special, they just only want me for whatever reason. He thinks they're being stubborn and/or manipulative, and he gets irritated with them and sometimes yells at them or speaks very sternly. I'm hoping it's just a phase.


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## helena

I think open space is a bit scarey for them too. I put Kiara down on her side. Always did. I imagine this takes away a bit of the feeling of being lost in a big open space? She is usually put down on her side with her comforter duck in her hands to fiddle with.

Being on his side may be worth a try if Camden really hates the open crib?

Kiara almost always turns to her tummy to sleep in the night. For a couple of nights I kept worrying but she sleeps so soundly that way...surely I don't need to keep turning her back? She cn roll to her back, though it is true she won't roll that way nearly as often as rolling back to front...I do wonder if she sometimes forgets how to go tummy to back....

We don't go on dates. I find inviting people to us, either for evening dinner when the kids are in bed, or for a daytime BBQ works well. That way we get grown up conversation, can have a drink if we want and feel like we are socializing and catching up with friends. And we don't need to find babysitters :) we haven't been on a date for the two of us. Honestly I don't feel the need, we spend every evening together as it is. I don't know if we would have anything non mundane to talk about on a date....
Socializing with others occasionally works well for us :)

Kiara's second bottom tooth is on the way through :)
Good luck with your teeth Max x
Haha his littl feet, cute! Are you sure it isn't just the chunky legs making them look teeny?


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## Midnight_Fairy

Hey all. Not had time for decent reply but glad you're all well xx


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## Kellen

Hello Everyone!

Wamommy - Imagining poor Max as a teething zombie almost woke Teagen from her nap as I was shaking with laughter. Poor little guy. We've got two teeth on the bottom that have broken through and another that looks like it wants to join in the fun. She has bite marks on her hands from chewing on herself. Teagen has fairly big feet and opposible toes (okay, not really, but they are very flexy and work like fingers). Neither DH or I have really big feet, but hers are very long. I bet his look cute being tiny!

Sierra - Camden is a lucky little fellow to have such a mom as you. I'm glad that you are working through the nap issues. The past three days have been horrible with naps. I think it was because DH was home and Teagen doesn't like to nap if he is around... Daddy is just far too interesting.

DH and I managed to have a date night this week. It was our second since Teagen was born. We went to the local fair for about 4 hours after she went to bed. My parents came over and sat with her. I now have a huge bruise on my thigh from trying to tip the cage over on the "Zipper" which is a ride that DH and I both adore. Unfortunately this cage was smaller than ones we had previously been in and DH couldn't move so I had to do all the rocking.

Getting Teagen to sleep this past week has been an adventure. She can finally sit unassisted for 5 minutes or so while playing with toys. However... she wants to practice sitting... while BF, while sleeping, while doing anything. Is anyone else experiencing this? I've had to hold her torso down while changing her diaper because she tries to sit from the core rather than rolling to the side and then up.


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## helena

HHS well done Taegan on sitting. It must be such fun to want to try it all the time! Lol. It is funny how when they master something new they want to try it all the time. (Though maybe it doesn't feel so funny in the middle of the night!?). Kiara can sit for a little while but can still wobble and fall at any moment and she can't pull herself from laying down to sitting yet. Her favourite peice of baby equipment has to be the blow up ring we have that she sits in and plays in. she is so happy sitting alone and with er toys. i even managed to have a little float on our lilo on the pool in our garden today (one of those self holding up pools, depth just to my thighs, not a proper swimming pool) while Kiara entertained herself in the shade of the parasol nearby. it felt such a luxury!
But oh we are having wriggly diaper changes! She managed to wriggle and get er foot in it today.,.and then while I shouted for DH to assist wiping her foot while I held her down she managed to get a hand free and somehow get that in the poop too!? Urgh. It was a bit of a three men and a baby moment. Chaos. Lol.

Ooh got to dash, its raining and the full washing line calls....


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## wamommy

We don't have date night here either. We tried a couple of times to leave the girls with a friend and go out to lunch. We end up talking about the kids the whole time, anyhow! Our alone time is like Helena's. When the kids go to bed we stay up talking or watching a movie, and that's our time to reconnect. 

Good job Teagen with sitting! What a strong girl :D Max still slumps forward or sideways in a super comical slow-motion face plant. I only have him practice on the bed or carpet so that it isn't painful :haha: It will be so nice when he can sit and play! The blow up right you have sounds super useful, Helena. Where did you get it?

I've been feeling really yucky the last few days. I think I may have mild food poisoning or something. It's not terrible, but I'm extra exhausted and have what my girls call "owie tummy." I'm hoping this passes soon! Also, Max has switched his sleep schedule yet again. He now gets up for the day at 6am! :dohh: Oh, how I can't wait until he sleeps 8-8. 

Helena, picturing your poop fiasco cracked me up! Been there, been there... and I know how funny/terrible/chaotic those can be.


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## helena

https://www.amazon.com/Galt-A1160K-...UTF8&qid=1376855303&sr=8-3&keywords=Galt+nest. It's like this but with different pictures. Same make. We love it. So easy to take outside too. Highly recommended for wobbly sitters :)


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## DragonflyWing

That play nest looks really great! L and G can sit up for short periods, but they are unsteady so if they lean one way or another they fall over...so I bet that play nest would be just what they need! I'll have to look into that. 

wamommy, I hope you feel better soon! Food poisoning is the worst :(

Gunnar's first tooth came through yesterday! DH found out when Gunnar bit him...it's like a little razor blade...we've been calling him "sharp tooth" ever since :haha: (we also call Lily "little foot.")

If AF doesn't show up by Saturday I'm going to test...so just a few more days to wait. I'm sitting on pins and needles worrying about it.

Lily has perfected her "cheese!" camera face:
 



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## Kim2012

We have our first tooth Yiiiii haa and Brianna can sit unassisted. She eats well and loves her fruits and we have started introducing meat but no problem there as she eats 'anyththing thats withing reach!! She still doesnt sleep , still waking up 3 times a night hence between her work DS and DH I am dead by the end of the day!!! and my back is killing me ... particularly the area where I had the epidural. any of you having similar issues?

Oh dear thought thought I had a few minutes to myself but eish she is up...
Good to know everyone and LOs are doing well


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## Kellen

Dragon and Kim: Congrats on your first teeth! I never knew I could be so proud of a tooth that is not my own. And huzzah for sitting unassisted.

Right now Teagen is crying in her crib. She fell asleep about 15 minutes before her normal bedtime and then woke up after an hour. I nursed her and then put her back in the crib. She is vocally letting me know that this is not what she wants. I turned on some classical music in hopes of helping her calm down. It might be working... not sure.

Next Monday my mom is going in to have knee surgery, and my grandmother is going in to have a bone spur taken off her elbow. Guess who will be nursing both of them back to health while writing a 25 page paper and carrying for a very active 6 month old? :Haha: Actually, my dad will probably help out with the baby so that I can help the matriarchs of the family.

Teagen has started to really, really babble. Her favorite sound is "mamamammama..." I've tried to get her to say "da" but she is fixated on the "ma" sound. Okay by me, hard for DH especially since he was told that "da" is easier to say than "ma." :shrug: She has also become rather obsessed with blowing raspberries. Also for the past three days she has been super clingy and will cry if I as so much walk around the counter out of her sight. Has anyone experienced separation anxiety? Any tricks or tips?


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## wamommy

Haha, Lily's face made me smile!! What a cheerful grin :D I'm looking forward to your test results, too Dragonfly. What will be, will be, I suppose!

Helena, that blow-up ring is super cool. It looks so useful! 

Kim, it sounds like Brianna is doing great :D Yay for teeth and sitting. I'm so sorry to hear you're still having back pain. I've heard it's pretty common with epidurals, but I don't know much about it. That said, I didn't use pain relief with my babies and I still feel like I'm going to collapse at the end of the day (especially my back!). Maybe it's lugging around our growing babies all day? I figure the way I carry Max, on one hip, puts your body at a very odd and unnatural alignment. Just speculation, though. I hope it feels better!

Kellen, it sounds like you will have your hands really full coming up. Good luck! I hope both women (and you!) come out of it no worse for the wear. Also, Max says, "Mamamamamama" too. He says "Bababababa" sometimes too, but almost never the "Da" sound. I read somewhere that even across cultures where Mama isn't a word, it's one of the most common sounds for a baby to make. :shrug: I know Max isn't saying "Mama" for REAL yet, but I still secretly love that he makes that sounds and not "Dada" :haha:

Kids are going insane... it's bed time for sure. A 2 mile bike ride today has made them crazily tired!


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## Kellen

Dragon - Yes, that smile is adorable and I am waiting anxiously to hear/read your results as well.

Wamommy - That is interesting. I know she isn't applying those sounds to me yet, but I still love hearing them. I would never tell DH that I am sooo happy she said that before Dada or anything else. The bike ride sounds fun. Once Teagen is big enough I want to buy a bike (seeing as I sold mine before moving) and get one of those seats you can attach to the bike between the seat and the handlebars.

Thankfully she only cried for about 2 minutes before falling back to sleep, but those were a long two minutes.


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## SierraJourney

Love the picture Dragon! So precious! 

Wamommy the bike ride sounds wonderful! 

Kellen, Camden has separation anxiety too. I hear playing peekaboo around corners when you leave a room helps as does talking to them from thee other room. neither of those have helped me much but i still try them every day . It usually helps Camden if he's busy playing with a toy.. then I can sneak away for a minute or two...but not for long!! Haha :)


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## DragonflyWing

I think I'm losing my mind...I have total line-eye. I think I see the barest hint of a line on a frer, but it's much too faint to tell if it's an evap or what. I'll have to play around with some pictures and show you.

I'm only 8dpo so I don't know why I tested so early lol.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon-that's so exciting. . .definitetly post pictures. FRER was the one that showed up earliest for me. . .I think at 10 dpo. How are you feeling? Any symptoms? How do you feel about possibly having another one!? I'm excited for you. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Ok here are some pictures...I'm pretty sure I'm just seeing things, because sometimes I totally see a line, and then I look away and look back again and I can't see it. What do you think? Do you see anything at all?
 



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## SierraJourney

Hmmmm. .. I don't think I can see a line. . .but the longer I look at them, the more I'm wondering if I see something! lol However, I usually found with me, if I thought I saw a line, it usually was right. I would see a line a week or so before DH would ever see one. In fact, I saw a line, tested at the doctors the same day, and the doctor said it was negative--that was with my first pregnancy (miscarriage)---so I believe in a mother's instinct's ability to see a line way before others! Test tomorrow or Thursday, I'd say---it'd be so exciting to see a line get darker and darker! :)


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## Kellen

I think I can see a line on the negative one. So exciting! I tested a good week before I told DH and got a line, but he didn't want us to test until at least 3 days after AF was supposed to show... but I knew.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that's hilarious! I tried to sneak tests past DH but he always guessed that I was testing. . .so then I made him inspect all of the tests with me. . .and he NEVER saw a line until it was bright pink! lol


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## Kellen

LOL. I did mine at the bathroom at work. I went out and bought a super cheap one just to see if I would get a result. My mom had guessed a week before I tested. I had complained that I had passed out on the couch on a Saturday afternoon and couldn't fathom why I was so tired. I got a nice digital test for when DH was there. No way he could dispute the huge: PREGNANT sign that popped up.


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## SierraJourney

So funny! I should have went with the digital, but since I was testing all of the time, DH had me get the cheapies. . .We did splurge for a FRER after I swore to him that I saw a line and I wanted to prove it to him with a better test. :)


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## wamommy

Same with us, Sierra! We bought the dollar store ones until I swore I saw something, and then DH sprung for the FRERs :D Once there was any line at all on the Dollar Store ones the FRERs were bright pink!

Dragon, I can see something on one of the tests, I think! 8dpo is pretty early to be conclusive, but I can't say I blame you for testing. I was never able to hold out. Speaking of, I think I have a FRER in the bathroom drawer upstairs, and every time I see it I have the urge to pee on it! Silly, I know. I suppose the excitement and importance of the testing times was really fun :blush:

We haven't hit separation anxiety here, yet. Max is pretty much like, "Oh, you'll play with me? Cool!" To whoever picks him up. He doesn't like my godmother, though. When she holds him he makes the FUNNIEST face. I caught it on camera this last trip down. Let's see if I can find it.
 



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## DragonflyWing

OH. MY. GOD.

I just went back to look at the test, and the line is definitely there now. HOLY SHIT GUYS. I almost threw up from fear/excitement. I think this is real.

I know the instructions say not to read the results after 10 minutes, but look at this...
 



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## wamommy

Eeeeep! There's definitely something there, Dragon! Oh, my! How are you feeling?


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## DragonflyWing

I'm really freaked out! I feel dizzy and shaky like I'm in shock or something...but at the same time, I can't stop smiling. I don't want to tell DH until there's no doubt. He's going to be freaked out, too. We're already barely getting by financially, and I don't know how he's going to take care of a new baby and two 15 month olds while I'm at work.


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## wamommy

Well, I'm super glad you're smiling! There must be a part of you that is so excited! Don't worry about how you'd manage. Just think... you already have all of the boy and girl clothes that you'd need :D You could go team yellow and still be fine. Also, after caring for TWINS, one new baby will be a breeze for the both of you. You're pros!

I'm smiling for you! A baby is always a blessing, even when (and perhaps especially when?) it's an unexpected gift. Yeeehaww!!! :yipee:


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## DragonflyWing

Yes, it's true that a baby is always a blessing. Thankfully, DH feels that way too, so I don't think he would be too upset...but he would be really stressed out about it.

I have to figure out if my antidepressants are safe to keep taking.


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## Kellen

I can totally see a line! Congrats! That is scary, but exciting. Keeping both you and your DH in our prayers. You can handle it. :) I guess you won't be able to quit pumping after a year?


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## SierraJourney

Oh my gosh Dragon!! That's definitely a line!! I would sometimes read them later too--I think it just shows better when it's drier! Soooo exciting!! Congrats!!!

wamommy--that photo is hilarious, by the way! What a face! And he is just so adorable---I can't get over those chubby cheeks! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Yeah, if I really am pregnant it looks like I'll be breastfeeding/pumping for a lot longer than I planned.

Someone in another thread posted a really bad evap that they had with a FRER. Looks like mine, so maybe it's not positive?


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## SierraJourney

I've heard about evaps but never experienced them...I'd just test again tomorrow to be sure...


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## wamommy

I've only ever had an evap if I looked at it WAY later, like the next day. I guess it's pretty common, though? I agree that testing tomorrow is probably the best. It must seem like an eternity away!


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## DragonflyWing

I couldn't help myself from testing again, and this time it was negative.

Now I don't have any tests for tomorrow! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Haha oh no Dragon!! You'd better get to the store! We all want to know! :haha:


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## wamommy

^^ WSS! I think a trip to the store is in order! If I lived close by I'd drive ya over my FRER :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

I may have to make a trip to the dollar store for a cheaper test...$14 for 2 frers is a little expensive! I actually have some ICs coming in the mail but they won't be here for a few days yet.


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## SierraJourney

I totally agree! Go get some cheapies! :)


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## wamommy

I actually like the dollar store tests. I didn't feel guilty using them, or like I was "wasting" them if I took more than one in a day! :haha: Also, Walmart has a sale right now for 3 FRER for $12. (I was just there and probably lingered longer than I should have in the testing isle on your behalf!) Still expensive, but better than $14 for 2!!


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## DragonflyWing

I've made an excuse to run into town to go to the dollar store after work, so I hope they have tests! If not, I'll have to break the bank on some frers ;)

It's so funny...when I saw that line I was 100% convinced I was pregnant. Now that I saw that other person's evap, I'm about 75% sure I'm not pregnant. 

I'm on an emotional rollercoaster here!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--that's awesome that you were checking out the testing aisle. :)

Dragon--I don't envy the emotional rollercoaster you must be on. . . I remember that well and didn't enjoy that part. :( Hopefully tomorrow comes quickly. . and in the meantime, I hope you find a whole stack of cheapies! (I remember buying the whole row of ones at the dollar store one time. . .and also I remember going to two different dollar stores and finding NONE! Obviously, someone else had cleared the stores before I got there! :haha: ) Good luck tonight getting tests! Keep us updated!


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## Jo_Bean

Oh my goodness Dragon! Eeeeek!


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## wamommy

Yes, I can imagine this is quite the roller coaster! What result are you hoping for, so I know which way to root? :haha:

Jo, loving your avatar! What a little mermaid!


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## DragonflyWing

Is that Olivia swimming? That's so cute!

wamommy- I have no idea! If I'm being completely practical, I'm hoping for a negative. Otherwise I'm hoping for a positive.


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## Jo_Bean

Ah thanks :D yes it is! She loves it. 

We thought we had an oopsie a couple of months back. Now we are deciding whether to ttc again or not. I'm 50/50. 

I must try and catch up properly with the goings on in our valentines brood! I'm sorry for my lack of posting here. I'm a bit rubbish at keeping up these days :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

The dollar store had the 2 pack of frer for $9. They had a $4 cheap version, but they were blue dye, and I don't trust those.

The next 14ish hours can not go fast enough!


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## SierraJourney

Yay frer! Can't wait until morning for you!!


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## wamommy

I will certainly be checking back! Luckily you're a couple of hours ahead of me so by the time I wake up there will be results! :haha:


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## Kellen

Is it weird that I am more excited about you testing, Dragon, than I was about myself testing last year? I can't wait to wake up and read the results.


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, I can't wait, either! I'm counting down the hours. 9 hours to go!


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## wamommy

I'm going to bed now, but will be up bright and early to see how your testing went! So excited :D


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## helena

I'm waiting......xx


Sleep deprived here. Kiara has decided sleep isn't essential. Wake seval times last night. And the other day she only had 15 minutes of nap all day. Very very unusual. Growth spurt?! Seis learning to try and get her knees under her for crawls so maybe she is having some sort of download. Bet she will be kneeling by the end of the week.

Ooh testing, such fun dragon!....I can definitely see your first line! Omg! How did I miss all his fun yesterday!!!.....


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## helena

Omg... Line showing early..imagine if its more twins!


Come on, test time? Xx


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## SierraJourney

helena--sorry about your your sleepless night! :( I imagine it could be a growth spurt... So cool about Kiara getting her knees underneath herself! I was so excited when I put Camden down on his belly on our wood floors yesterday and he spun himself around to look at DH. This was a huge feet for us as Camden still hates tummy time! :haha:

We're all happily awaiting Dragon to get up a pee this morning. . .:haha: 

Speaking of bathroom stuff.. . .did your lo's bowel movements change when you started feeding them solids? Camden's has gotten a lot harder and smaller amounts more frequently. I've been giving him stuff for constipation, but then wondered if perhaps this is normal after solid foods?!


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## helena

I think its probably normal. I can really tell when Kiara has had a day with less food and more milk...
I wouldn't worry about him being constipated unless he is really struggling or hasn't been for a couple of days. But that's just me. Well done Camden on getting wriggly and spinning :) our babies are growing up!:)

Come on dragon!....


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Helena. :).


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## DragonflyWing

There was only the very faintest shadow on my test this morning...no way to even get a picture of it. I would say it was negative.

I'm having a hard time believing that yesterday's test was an evap! I can still see the line on it without even squinting lol. I guess I'll just have to test again tomorrow!

With the twins, I got a very faint line at 9dpo in the evening, and a definite positive at 10dpo. I'm 9dpo today, so I'm going to keep testing.


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## SierraJourney

It sounds very promising Dragon! When's the next test? This evening? Tomorrow?


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## DragonflyWing

If my ICs come in the mail today, I'll test tonight. Otherwise, I'll test tomorrow morning with my last frer.

I don't really feel pregnant...not having many symptoms outside what is normal PMS for me. I went back to look at the test from an hour ago, and it's not 100% negative...could definitely be a slight evap, but once again there is something faint there. I just don't know what to think.


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## SierraJourney

Any way you can take a picture now so we can take a look?


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## DragonflyWing

I'll try!


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## DragonflyWing

Here you go!
 



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## SierraJourney

I think I see something faint on the first photo--but not on the negative one. Boy---I forgot how frustrating the 2WW was!


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## wamommy

I think I see something on the first one, Dragon! I didn't have any idea that FRERs were giving evaps now :( They used to be the standard for being sure! How frustrating. At 9dpo, though, it could definitely still go either way.

I have an idea! I'm going to use my FRER, let it dry, and compare it to yours. Maybe having a true negative will make it more clear?


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## DragonflyWing

Yay! That would be awesome!


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## wamommy

Oh God...

DH is laughing hysterically... 


Spoiler


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## DragonflyWing

Wait, what???!! Did you get a positive?


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## wamommy

It appears that way... a blaring one! I'm freaking out. That doesn't even describe it.

I'm FREAKING OUT! I've been on birth control for 3 months!!


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, wamommy!! I can't even believe it! What kind of birth control are you on? 

Are you going to test again to confirm? That looks pretty darn positive, though. I am totally in shock for you!


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## wamommy

DH and I have only DTD 2-3 times since Max was born, the last time being when my stepdaughter was at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago. I'm guessing August 6th or 7th? I'm completely wracking my brain trying to figure this out... According to my pill pack I'm supposed to get my period tomorrow. I suppose that would add up. 

I'm about to vomit. Dragon, I understand what you were feeling yesterday.


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## wamommy

I am on Ortho Tri Cyclen, because it's supposed to be good for people who are sensitive to birth control. The last one (Micronor) gave me horrible acne and mood swings. 

I am definitely going to test again! It could be a bad test, right? I don't have any more (for obvious reasons) but I'm sending DH out to the dollar store in a few minutes.

I'm trying to feed the kids breakfast and carry on with a normal morning, but I'm in total shock!


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## SierraJourney

Omg!!!! Wamommy that is CRAZY!! that's a definite positive! Oh my gosh! Congratulations!! But what a SHOCK!!! do keep us posted! Now I'm all paranoid because I'm on a very low birth control for breastfeeding.. it's only supposed to be 80% accurate... and I've never gotten a peroid yet! Lol.. 

Wamommy keep us updated! Oh my I can hardly stand it! Two possible pregnancies!


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## DragonflyWing

I'd say it's unlikely to be a bad test...that's a pretty clear positive. If your period is due tomorrow, does that mean your last one was on 7/25? If so, August 7th would have been cd 13, so if you ovulated it would have been right around that time. You didn't miss any pills or anything? Isn't BC supposed to be like 99.9% effective? 

My lmp was 7/26...so if we're both pregnant, we'd be due right around the same time again LOL


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## wamommy

I didn't miss any pills, but I just looked up the "failure" rate, and it's only 1%! THEN I looked up drug interactions, and it would have been REALLY nice for someone to tell me that Ortho Tri Cyclen interacts negatively with THYROID meds (levothyroxine). Remember my concerns a few months ago with crazy thyroid levels?? How did no one catch this??

I remember starting my last period on vacation last month. I THINK it was July 24th. Ugh.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness wamommy--your doctor should have known that! Do you think that'll mean the doctor will pay for baby expenses since it's their "fault" you're now pregnant?! :haha:

How are you feeling about possibly being pregnant? Did you say that you weren't going to try for other babies? How is your husband reacting?


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## wamommy

DH is happy, surprisingly. He's been hinting that we should have another since Max was born. He likes the idea of "sets" of kids, so they each have a play buddy. Our girls play so nicely now... But I wasn't on board. 3 kids have been stretching me to the max, with lack of sleep and trying to keep up with the house and everyone's needs. I'm feeling terrified. Perhaps I'm in shock, but I just think it has to be wrong. Then I look at things logically and it makes sense, though. I've been feeling so "off". I don't know what to do with myself!


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## SierraJourney

I can definitely understand how you're feeling stretched... I'm stretched with only one!! As much as it seems impossible, the logic is probably correct. Isn't it crazy that you could be a month pregnant and barely notice a symptom yet when we were trying we symptom spotted all of the time?!

I'm just so ecstatic for you! I know you must be freaking out, but I believe everything happens for a reason... and I'm sure you'll do just great with 4 kiddos! :flower:


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## DragonflyWing

I feel like I should apologize for making you take the test, but then you wouldn't know! What a crazy plot twist!

I just used my last test again lol...I think it's negative, but it hasn't been 10 minutes yet. I'm going to bankrupt us if I keep doing this!


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## wamommy

Don't apologize, Dragon. Thank goodness this happened!! If I hadn't tested I wouldn't know, and from a tiny bit of research, taking birth control while pregnant can cause birth defects, so thank goodness I know! Perhaps everything does happen for a reason. :dohh:

Dragon, post your new test! It would be nice to share this panic with you! :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Gosh darn it, I see a shadow on this one too. This is torture.
 



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## SierraJourney

I see it too!!! I see a very thin pink line!


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## wamommy

I see it too!!


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## wamommy

I need to go run some errands. I need to change DD's kindergarten from AM to PM and drop off some forms at the high school for my stepdaughter. I will also stop by the dollar store and get more tests! Yes, tests... Maybe a whole row, Sierra-style :D

Dragon, the more I look at your test, the more I see a line!


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## DragonflyWing

I think I'm going to lose my mind. I should never have taken that second test today. :haha:

I have to figure out some way to get more tests later. Not sure how I'll manage that, since I'm working from home and I have no real reason to go anywhere.


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## SierraJourney

Can you go out to grab food for everyone tonight? Or need aspirin for a headache?


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## Jo_Bean

What in the world has been going on!? :shock:

Wamommy - don't think there is any mistaking the fact of that being a positive!

Dragon, it's a squinter but I'm sure I see something!


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## DragonflyWing

I might be able to suggest Subway for dinner...that would take me right near a dollar store. I have 15 ICs coming in the mail any day now, but by the time they get here, I probably won't need them anymore! (who am I kidding, I'll still use them either way)


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## SierraJourney

:haha: apparently Dragon and wamommy are having a 'get-pregnant' club without inviting the rest of us! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Good---use the Subway excuse!! :) I approve!


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## Jo_Bean

I think we all need to either be extra careful, or jump on our DHs in the hope that there is something very fertile going on in this thread!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm suddenly developing symptoms...after lunch I got really nauseated, and it hasn't gone away over the past hour. (TMI) I also have creamy cm just like I had when I was about 9dpo with the twins. That's the most significant symptom for me, because that's the only time I've had that type of cm.


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## SierraJourney

Yay symptoms Dragon! Now go get that "Subway" :haha:

Jo--I agree! Are you trying for another one? I think we're waiting as of right now. . .


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## Jo_Bean

One day I would like to, the next day it scares me to death!

We're NTNP as it took 5 years to conceive Olivia, so we're not putting any obstacles in the way this time. What will be, will be.


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## SierraJourney

Maybe you should test right now too Jo! :haha:


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## Jo_Bean

Haha. Only on cd15 (not that I'm counting :blush:) ok I am :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Well, the Subway thing isn't going to work. DH vetoed it and said that we should put that money toward bills instead :(

He wants to make BLTs at home instead, and we don't have lettuce, so I said I'd go out and get some. He also shot that down, because he said I should just walk to the farmer's market on the corner. Pretty sure they don't have pregnancy tests :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Oh no! Lol... could you say they were sold out ? I know our market sells out early in the morning sometimes on hot items.. :)


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## wamommy

Oh no, Dragon! I loved the subway excuse. Hmmm... 

I'm extra confused now because I stopped at the dollar store on my way home and bought a "couple" tests, and of course I felt the need to take one right when i walked in the door. On 2 cups of coffee and no hold, but STILL, there's just barely a line. It's a squinter, to be sure. So maybe the FRER was bad? Is is pretty old, after all?


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## SierraJourney

If there was barely a line, I'd say you're still pregnant. Dollar stores tests aren't as bright in the beginning.. but in my experience, if you aren't pregnant there would be absolutely no line....


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## SierraJourney

Test again either tonight on a held bladder or tomorrow morning wamommy... those should be more accurate.


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## Kellen

I go to the doctor to get some antibiotics and come back and everyone is pregnant. I better have DH run out and get some tests for me too. :rofl: Those tests are pretty darn conclusive. I have an FRER left over... Maybe I can find it.


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## DragonflyWing

Did you take a picture of your second test, wamommy?

I managed to go out and get a few dollar general tests, plus a clearblue easy. I took one of the cheapies when I got home, and got another inconclusive result. I had to tweak it quite a bit to make it visible on the photo.

The cashier at the dollar store was really funny...they had the tests behind the counter, so I had to ask for them. He was like "It's been a long time since I've taken a test, but something tells me that I wouldn't do too well on this one." and then when I was leaving, he said "Good luck on your final exam!" :haha:

Do you see anything on this one?
 



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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Test again either tonight on a held bladder or tomorrow morning wamommy... those should be more accurate.

I totally will. I'm practicing extreme willpower right now, since I have tests, but really want to wait until tomorrow! I've been out bike riding (well, I walk quickly behind the girls with Max in his jogger) trying to get my mind off of all of this. Ya, it didn't work. I'm totally obsessing and going a little crazy. I just can't believe this. That said, I'm not completely sold, because the dollar store test is almost white. Hmm... I guess tomorrow morning willl tell.

Everyone should go get a test (or use your last FRER from a drawer, Kellen... you see what happened to me!). 

Dragonfly, I'll post the test. I took this pic at 3 minutes or so. It darkened a TAD, but then turned yellow (eew). So, this is the best pic I have. I see something on your test, btw!! Also, how do you tweak pics? I've seen people bring out the pink in tests, but I have no idea how?
 



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## DragonflyWing

That's definitely positive, wamommy!

I use the photo editor on my phone, and I play with the colors and contrasts until I can see it.


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## SierraJourney

Definitely positive!!


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## SierraJourney

I'd love to test because now I'm paranoid since my BC is only 80% effective... but I'd have to find an excuse to buy one without dh knowing.....


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## wamommy

LOL Sierra! Maybe YOU should suggest subway for lunch tomorrow? :winkwink: Is there a way to get out with Camden tomorrow?

So you guys think it's really positive? Oh my... I'm in full panic mode, tonight! I guess there's no point in stressing out tonight. I'll test again in the morning and give myself a night to let it all sink in. 

Dragon, I fully expect a test from you in the AM as well! (and maybe even one from Sierra, and Kellen, too!)


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## DragonflyWing

I'll definitely be testing in the morning!


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## Kellen

100% positive there is a line Wamommy. I now really want to test for the heck of it. DH would be over the moon. I can't wait for more results tomorrow.


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy, that's definitely positive! Especially after 2 cups of coffee and no hold :rofl: 

I love it!!

But..... What are you going to do? Stay with us in our valentines buddy group or join a May buddy group!?


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## SierraJourney

Yes, my opinion is that you're pregnant wamommy! :). Can't wait for more results today! 

I work from home for the same company dh works for so if I took time off he'd see it on our work calendar... and he always picks up food and groceries on his way home from work.. so this may be hard... lol... thinking thinking... though honestly it'd just be negative so wouldn't need to go get one.. lol... I'm on BC, have never gotten my period back, so I don't even think I can get pregnant*right now. ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Took a Clearblue test this morning...still no definitive answer either way. I'll try to get a picture of it in a little while, but I'm at work so it might take me a little bit.

Could I really be getting evaps on EVERY test?


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## SierraJourney

I wouldn't think they'd all be evaps... it would seem you'd get at least one for sure negative in there! I'm assuming these are all good indicators that there's a baby on the way. :)


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## wamommy

Good morning, all! I'm a couple hours behind you guys, so I'm just crawling out of bed with Max and the girls. Actually, sleeping until 7:00am was quite a gift today!

I tested this morning, and it's not much darker than yesterday's test. What was up with that super dark FRER? So weird. So, if I am in fact pregnant, shouldn't it be darker if (assuming) I'm around 15 dpo?
 



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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, that's what my dollar store tests looked like in the beginning. Frer was much darker.. I just don't think the cheap tests are as sensitive. I knew I was pregnant with a doctors test before the cheap test even got really dark.. it was always super faint in the beginning. There's no doubt in my mind that you're pregnant. But if you want to be extra sure, get a more expensive test and check this afternoon. :flower:

Good for you for sleeping in!!


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## DragonflyWing

My understanding is that most dollar store tests detect hcg starting at 50, while frers detect 25 and sometimes even less. So, you're probably getting a lighter line with the dollar store tests because your hcg is slightly above 50...your line on a frer would be much darker.

I got a few good pictures of this morning's test, and I can see the line. Can you?
 



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## SierraJourney

Okay so I kept all of my old tests :blush: and 16 do was really faint like yours on the cheap test. It didn't get darker until 20dpo and then really dark at 26dpo. :). Congrats wamommy, you're pregnant!!! :)

Dragon, I definitely see the line! Congrats are in order for you too!! Yay more babies!!


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## wamommy

I wonder if DH would spring for a box of FRER? I'm sure he will. With Max he got as in to testing as I was! Last night I looked over his shoulder while he was on his computer and he was looking at double strollers! I guess he's not as terrified as I am? :haha:

Dragon, I hope you're able to post your test! I'm so curious. I agree with Sierra that it doesn't seem possible that they could all be evaps. You're 10 dpo now, right? It would be super light still, anyway. Keep testing! I am feeling that old, familiar, manic need to test. Are you, too? Who would have thought?


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## wamommy

Oops, I was writing while you guys were posting! 

I definitely see a line, Dragon!! Wowzers :D

It's ok, Sierra... I kept all of mine too! :haha: I was just looking at them, and you're right. I have a FRER and a dollar store test from the same day, and the FRER is WAY darker. YIKES!


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## SierraJourney

I think you're dh would spring for abox for siresure wamommy! Ask him! The double stroller thing is so cute! :)

I feel a bit left out... lol.. if I weren't working and finances so tight, I'd almost be wanting another baby now! ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Yes I'm totally feeling a desperate need to test!

Luckily, I should have 10 ICs waiting for me in the mailbox when I get home today! I only have one dollar general test left.

I still don't believe I'm pregnant. Even though I can see that line, all I can think is that it must be another evap lol. Am I in denial?


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## wamommy

:rofl: Dragon, maybe just afraid to get excited/scared/commit to it until you're sure? That's how I'm feeling. I'm afraid to say, "ok, I'm pregnant!" and then have it not be true, even though it was never planned in the first place!

Sierra, finances will work themselves out. Do it! LOL I feel like a drug addict, encouraging everyone else to use!


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## wamommy

So, the test dried a little, and looks a TAD darker to me? What do you think?
 



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## SierraJourney

:rofl: I thought about it but DH is so paranoid aftter I told him about you two that now he's talking about ways to add more birth control to the pill! haha... and I just don't know how I'd work from home with a baby AND a toddler! My bosses are a bit hard on me as it is! (as I'm on here instead of working! :haha: )


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## SierraJourney

Definitely darker! Oooo so excited! *No, Sierra, you can not try for another one, you can not try for another one. . .maintain control!* :)


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## Kellen

Whoo-hoo! All of the tests I've seen so far look super positive to me.

Looking at the double stroller is cute. And the denial is completely understandable. It is a good thing Dragon had you test, Wamommy you might have ended up in the "I didn't know I was pregnant until the baby arrived" group. I hope you two stay in our group even if you leave to join the May group for 2014. What would we do without baby updates?

Sierra - Would you be able to order any cheap tests from online and have them delivered?


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## DragonflyWing

Another reason I'm just not believing it is because we only dtd ONE time this month! I just find it so hard to believe that we are in that small percentage of people that catch the egg after just one time while not even trying.

Then again, I was in the 3% that had twins :haha:


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## wamommy

I forgot to answer Jo's question about that!

I will absolutely stay in this group!! I love hearing about everyone's babies, and you can't really replace a year's worth of support and friendship. While I might join a baby group (still feel like I'm so jumping the gun!) I am a Valentine's Baby girl through and through :D


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## wamommy

Dragon, we only dtd once, too :haha: and I was on the pill, which puts me in the 1% realm! Maybe after the twins your body is just super fertile?


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## DragonflyWing

Maybe!

If I really am pregnant, I will of course be staying here! I'll probably join a pregancy group too, but I'm not leaving my Valentine's ladies :D


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## Kellen

I find it highly amusing that this comes the week after we had the discussion of whether or not any of us were going to have more babies in the future. Well, the future is here.


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## DragonflyWing

:rofl: I know! We were all saying either "no more kids" or "not for a while!"

Even when I realized I had O'ed just after dtd, I really never thought I would *actually* be pregnant. 

I'm so afraid to even let myself believe I am now. I will be so disappointed if I'm not, and so terrified if I am.


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## wamommy

I know, right? I actually listed a bunch of stuff online to sell, and am now thinking of taking the ads down :dohh: That's probably why this happened... I started selling baby stuff!!


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## wamommy

Where's Helena, btw? She's going to freak out!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm supposed to be participating in a messaging and presentation web seminar right now, but I'm so anxious and distracted that I can't pay attention!

I remember this feeling from last year, but it's so much more intense this time, because there's a lot of fear involved!


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## wamommy

Yes! Last time it was SO planned, and after a loss. We'd been trying/timing/opking and all of that. When I got a bfp last June I was elated! This time it's a very different feeling. There's more terror... mixed with some guilt... with a little excitement thrown in.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--I thoguht about that, and it could work, but DH comes home from work at lunch and checks the mail. So if I catch the mail before that, I'm okay, but if it comes in that hour during his lunch, I don't think he'd be too happy! lol 

Are you going to take your test Kellen?

So glad you ladies will stay with our group! I definitely want to hear all of the pregnanct updates!! I can't imagine what you ladies are feeling---I'm getting distracted and I'm not even the one testing! lol


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## DragonflyWing

I'm hoping DH doesn't check the mail before I get home lol...sometimes he opens my mail, and he'd be confused to find a bunch of pg tests!


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## wamommy

LOL does he know you suspect you're pregnant?


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## SierraJourney

Oh no Dragon! haha. . . hopefully he won't check it this time!


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## DragonflyWing

No, not at all. I have no idea how to tell him! I also have no idea how he'll react. He's under a huge amount of stress right now, and I think this is going to add even more.

I am tempted to not even tell him until he starts to think it himself based on my symptoms. He said he knew I was pregnant last year before I knew...that was because I was subtly dropping hints by telling him about my symptoms. Maybe I can do the same thing now.

Maybe it's all a moot point, because I'm not even pregnant. :wacko:


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## wamommy

Haha about dropping hints so he'd think he "knew" first! That's a great idea :D


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## SierraJourney

Oh my! If it were my DH, he would want to know there is a possibility of pregnancy--even if it would cause more stress. But, subtly dropping hints isn't a bad idea---or testing until you know for sure, then surprise him in a sweet way. . .something that is meaningful like. . ., I know it wasn't expected, but you're such a great Dad, another baby decided to claim you.:" :)


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## Kellen

Oh, Dragon that is a hard one. Hopefully he won't find the tests. That would be a rather awkward surprise.

Wamommy - Teagen was also so very planned and after a loss. I can't imagine what I'd be feeling right now if we were to suddenly become pregnant. We live in an RV. Where would we even put another baby?

Sierra - If I can find the test I might go for it. It is somewhere... in a box... in the barn... labeled bathroom stuff. Right now we are in the midst of a lovely thunder shower and there is no electricity in the stall where all of our boxes are stored so unless I brave the rain and take a flashlight the test will stayed packed for now.

DH is holding Teagen thinking I am doing school work. But I am too distracted and excited for all of you.


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## DragonflyWing

Quick vent

:wacko::shrug::dohh::brat::hissy::help::sick:](*,)

I have bats in my stomach. I can't wait to get home to test again! I still have 6 hours go to :growlmad:


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## wamommy

Even if I wanted to, there's no hiding anything from my DH :nope: He's home all day with me! When I took the FRER he was sitting right here shaking his head at me "wasting" it. When it went positive he just laughed, lol. He's been calling me "Fertile Myrtle" since then :dohh:

Speaking of, he's still sleeping... must be nice!! 

Kellen, weird that there are thunder storms there right now! It's absolutely gorgeous here, today. It's supposed to be in the mid 80s. As for being in an RV, one of the great things about babies is they don't take up much space :winkwink: but I know what you mean, lol.

Dragon, 6 hours must seem like an eternity! I have 3 tests left from the Dollar store, but I know if I take them they'll just be lighter, so I'm trying to wait until tomorrow morning. Maybe I'll have a FRER by then? :D


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## SierraJourney

Fertile Myrtle :haha: You must be with getting pregant on a 1% chance!! haha


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## Kellen

Awesome nickname from your DH, Wamommy. I think the rain blew in from the coast. It was super humid and 90 here yesterday. It was supposed to be that way all week. :shrug: Who knows where the wet came from?

But DH needs to go poke around in boxes in the barn to find some supplies so Teagen and I will covertly hunt for the test. At least now I have a decent excuse.


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## DragonflyWing

Haha I messed around with this morning's test so much that the strip fell apart and I had to throw it away! I guess that saves me from staring at it all day long.

I almost threw up a little while ago...not sure if it was from anxiety or potential morning sickness.


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## SierraJourney

Eeek! Maybe morning sickness! That's crazy!!


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## helena

I am here! Omg I must stop missing all the fun!!!!! Eek this is great. Test again now now now! (oh look, the Poas addict in me lives on!).
Oh imagine... Three babies under two.. Lol.
Bit jealous tho.. I know we are done, 3 is plenty for us.. But ooh a potential new baby, it is so freakin exciting... Ooh look, I am turning American getting excited with you ladies! "freakin"!! :)

I wouldn't mind if I did get pregnant again.. Though I won't. 
I think I would crack up. My first is so high maintenance .. 


I think the month we got pregnant with my second we only dtd once. It only takes one little swimmer...

Ooh dragon, imagine triplets!!! Lol
:)


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## helena

wamommy said:


> So, the test dried a little, and looks a TAD darker to me? What do you think?

There can be no doubt surely!!!!!! Woohoo!


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## DragonflyWing

OMG triplets :wacko:

I'm freaking out at the thought of another set of twins, I can't even imagine triplets! If there's anything cooking in there, it better be just one!

helena, did you see that wamommy offered to take a frer to show me a negative, and she got a blaring POSITIVE?

She's more pregnant than I am for sure :haha:


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## wamommy

Helena, I thought we were done, too... be careful!! :haha: I'm not certain I can handle 4. If this is truly a pregnancy than the baby would be born right after my oldest turns 6! Eeep! The kids would be 6, 4, and 14.5 months when this one was born. Dragon, now I feel like I'm going to throw up, lol. I actually never got morning sickness very badly with any of the babies, so I think I'm just having an anxiety attack :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

I think I'm going to take one of the ICs tonight if they came in the mail. If they didn't, I'm going to have to do everything I can to wait until tomorrow morning, because I only have the one dollar store test left!

I can't even sit still because I'm so jittery. I have too many meetings today and not enough of an attention span.


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## wamommy

Oh man, that will take a lot of restraint, Dragon! Hopefully the ICs came and you won't have to fight the urge! :haha:


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## wamommy

LOL right on queue I got this mini-movie in my email and it made me cry! What timing, huh? Enjoy!
https://www.babycenter.com/2_parent...momsbaby_20130820:2&pe=MlVDaDM1dnwyMDEzMDgyMA..


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## DragonflyWing

Haha that's so funny!

I texted my sister and asked her to check the mail...my ICs came in! :happydance: I told her to put the envelope aside so it's not right on the table when DH gets home. He usually doesn't notice anything if it's not right in front of his face.


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## SierraJourney

YAY Dragon!! Does your sister know?


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## wamommy

:yipee: Woohoo for testing when you get home!!


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## DragonflyWing

Nope, she doesn't know. If I get a positive I might tell her...she knew before anyone else last time, too (I got my bfp on her birthday so I told her then).

She just went out to get the mail and sent me a photo of the envelopes I got. One is from Beijing, which is where the ICs are coming from. 

I'm surprised no one has caught me yet, I've taken 6 tests in the last 3 days! :rofl: I have all the boxes and wrappers in my bathroom drawer, because I'm afraid someone will see them in the trash.


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## SierraJourney

When you ladies go out and have somenoe else watch your lo's. . .do you have them put your kiddos to bed? Dh just informed me that he wants me to go out to the ballgame with him tomorrow. . .which would mean my Mum will watch Camden and put him to bed. My Mum is good with Camden and I trust her. . . just it hurts my heart not to put my baby to bed. Is this normal? Am I just over-controlling of my baby? Obviously it's going to happen. . but I'm already sick to my stomach thinking of the fact that someone else is tucking my little boy in bed. :(


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--that's hilarious. Sooo sneaky. ;)


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## DragonflyWing

If we're out at bedtime, yep we have them put the babies to bed. With two of them, I can't always put them to bed myself anyway...I do prefer to, though. I understand that feeling, Sierra, but I'm sure Camden will be fine being put to bed by someone else for one night. I hope you have a good time :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Dragon. :) This whole parenting thing is hard!! lol


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## DragonflyWing

About 2.5 hours until I can test again! I'm holding...


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## SierraJourney

Haha---can't wait!!! Will be checking in!


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## DragonflyWing

How much you wanna bet it's going to be another "evap?"

I can't stand the suspense! :wacko:


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## wamommy

Sierra, I've never had anyone else put Max to bed, but it KILLED me when I was in the hospital with Max knowing that DH was going to put the girls to bed without me, and they're older!! I totally get it. I trust DH (and a couple other people) but I have this maternal fear that it won't be done the way I would have it done, or that he'll be left to cry, etc. I'm SURE Camden will be fine, and if you feel more comfortable, ask your Mom to hold him or put him in his swing in the living room or something, and save the actual "put down" for you when you get home.

We have to go run some errands (which will no doubt include buying more tests!) but I will be looking forward to checking on your tests, Dragon. It's fun to have something to look forward to, lol. I DO think it would be amazing to have a buddy in this strange twist.:thumbup:


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## DragonflyWing

I almost want to leave work early lol! I'm really not getting as much work done as I should be, because I'm so distracted. I'm basically sitting here refreshing bnb, looking up pg symptoms, staring at all the pictures of my tests, and freaking out about telling DH if I get a positive.

Any suggestions on HOW I should tell him?

Edit: more symptoms. I'm feeling the same type of pain in my pelvis that I felt when I was pregnant and had SPD. I haven't felt that since the day I had the babies. Weird! Could I already be producing relaxin?


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## DragonflyWing

Grrrrrr!
 



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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy... I needed that reassurance. :flower:

Dragon, this one I can't see much on... but I'm assuming the ic is less sensitive than the others?


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## DragonflyWing

They say accurate at only 10 vs 25 for frer, but I have my doubts. I guess I'll be testing again tomorrow!


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## SierraJourney

Sounds like a good idea. Keep us posted!


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## wamommy

I actually think I might see a little something on that test, but it's so hard to tell! How frustrating :(

I just walked in the door. I had to run to Costco and of course I stopped at Walmart to buy a FRER for tomorrow morning and a couple 88cent tests just to get my fix :dohh: :dohh: I already took the test, and it's setting right now! I'll take a pic and post in a minute.


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## wamommy

Oh, also... while I'm waiting. I was thinking my dollar store tests looked SO light that I dug up old pics of Max's Dollar store test from 9dpo and 10dpo, and they were way DARKER than this mornings'. Queue a deep sigh and feeling stupid. THEN I looked closer and realized the tests were different. The dollar store has changed their tests! Ok, now I feel like maybe it is still a positive? Maybe they just went to a cheaper test that isn't as sensitive?


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## Kellen

Sierra - Whenever DH and I go out on dates (the whole two we've gone on!) we wait until after I've put Teagen to bed. I find that it is easier on everyone if we do it that way. She likes to nurse to sleep or if she won't go down that way we do a gentle CC, but my mom can't stand hearing her cry so neither options work! Thankfully she is normally asleep by 7 or 7:30.

More tests tomorrow! Hooray! I can't see much in the last picture, Dragon. I think you'll get the best results with the morning one.

Went to the doctor this afternoon and left Teagen alone with DH for 2 hours... for the first time. My mom had an appointment right before mine so we went together and left the "boys" in charge of the baby. Apparently my grandma had to step in and tell them that no, it is not a good idea to put the baby in the Ergo carrier and climb at ladder to clean gutters :dohh: But anyways... I get to go back to the doctor in a week to have a cyst removed. Oh, and Teagen hasn't had a nap since 1pm and it is now 5:30. We are trying to keep her up until 6:30. If she naps now she won't be sleepy until 9 or 10.


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## Kellen

Here is a picture of Teagen with teeth! She was giggling at my mom. It is the first picture we have taken that you can actually see her two bottom teeth. My grandma was thrilled that I finally dressed her in pink... lol I tend to go with blues and greens.
 



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## wamommy

Hmmm...still light, but these tests stink. That's what I get for paying 88cents I guess!
 



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## SierraJourney

That's pregnant wamommy! :)

Kellen- she is so cute!! Love those little teeth! 

I thought about waiting until after I put Camden down tomorrow but I'd miss opening pitch and dh really wants me to be there for it all....so I think I shall be a good wife and pay attention to dhs needs this time. :). 

Did you find your test Kellen?


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## Kellen

Wamommy - There is not getting around it. There are TWO lines. It is positive.

Sierra - I completely understand about not wanting to miss the opening pitch. I love baseball. And no, I only found two bathroom boxes and neither of them had the test in it. DH found what he needed before I could convince him to open more boxes. He would have thought I was batty looking for the test if I had said anything.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I just saw the pic of Teagen. So cute!! I love the outfit. She so tall, too! The image of her in the Ergo with your DH on a ladder is hilarious :haha:

I think I'm convinced now that I'm actually pregnant. That sounds insane to say, and I think I've known since the FRER (come on... I live on BnB and have seen a thousand tests... ) but I've been in some denial here. I may need some time to get used to the idea!


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## SierraJourney

That's completely understandable wamommy!!! I'd be the same way! Congratulations!!!! Now make a doctor appointment so we know how far along you are! Can't wait to find out the gender too!


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## Kellen

I'd be in a bit of shock and denial as well if I suddenly discovered I was pregnant. But congratulations! I'm on board with Sierra... get to a doctor so we can have more news! Do you have any prenatal vitamins left over from Max?

Dragon - I can't wait to log in tomorrow morning and see what your next test says. 

I think Teagen looks slightly goofy in the picture. She was wearing a red shorts outfit, but I didn't realize it was raining and 62 degrees outside. Hence I added some sweats and a jacket over the top because my sense of style is rockin'.

Helena - I find it amusing that our Americanese is rubbing off on you. I guess it didn't occur to me that "freakin'" is not a widely used word elsewhere. It is interesting how many words are used in different context based purely on location.

But anywho... I am procrastinating doing my homework. Teagen is in bed. DH is playing video games and I'm writing gibberish about policy analysis and how pre-existing knowledge is both good and bad. Now to shift my paradigm and view doing homework two hours before the deadline as bad...


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## DragonflyWing

Negative. I guess I'm not pregnant.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon are you sure? I swear I saw those lines, too. When's your period due? Maybe it's just the ICs? Can you spring for another FRER?


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## DragonflyWing

Period is due this weekend, so if it doesn't arrive by Monday I'll get a frer.


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## SierraJourney

That sounds like a good idea. I bet it doesn't come with those lines....


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## DragonflyWing

I can still see the line on that first frer without even squinting...and with all those "evaps," I find it hard to believe that there wasn't SOMETHING registering on those tests. I suppose it could be a chemical, or at 11dpo it may just still be too low to register on most tests. Maybe that first frer picked it up early for some reason? 

I don't know, but I'm still having symptoms. Last night I had to go to bed early because I felt SO sick. I still have that pelvis pain, too.

DH made me feel a lot better last night about telling him if I do get a positive. We were talking about what I want for my birthday, and he said he was terrible at getting gifts. Then he said "Hey! Maybe I should just give you babies as gifts, I'm pretty good at that!" I laughed and said that that would be good, except I wanted a birthday gift more often than once every 2-3 years, and he said "Well, every 9 months if you're doing it right!" :haha:


Later when I felt really sick, DH mentioned that it was the second time in the last few days that I've felt really nauseated, and then he said "Remember when we were joking about you being pregnant?" and raised his eyebrows. This morning, I told him my period is due tomorrow, and he asked if we've dtd since my last one.

So he already suspects.


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## SierraJourney

Aww that's cute that he suspects! I say buy a frer pack tomorrow if af doesn't show! It's looking positive with your symptoms!


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## DragonflyWing

I really don't think ALL of those tests could be evaps...I took out the first three frers, and I can clearly see the second line on all of them. I tried to get a picture of all three, but I'm not sure you'll be able to see it. However, in person they are visible. I took another IC about 30 minutes ago :haha: and I see something on there too. It doesn't show up well in pictures.

Do you think these could all be in my head? I'm losing it :wacko:
 



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## SierraJourney

In my experience, whenver I thought I saw a line, it was a real one---but took a week or so to get very dark. . .that happened with both my pregnancies. . .because I tested soooo early. I woudl say go with your gut. I definitely see the lines on the frer. . . and I think I see something on the new one. Hopefully by tomorrow you'll see something more definite. Remember, if it's just one in there, your hcg levels won't be rising as much as they did with the twins. . .so it'll take a while longer to get a dark line. :)


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## wamommy

You aren't losing it! I see it on all of the FRER, _and_ the most recent IC. Maybe at 11 dpo it's just too early, too? Also, I see why people buy FRER. Yes, it's ridiculously expensive, but I took a dollar store test and a FRER this morning to compare, and they are SO different. I agree with Sierra. Since your DH already suspects, jokingly tell him you guys should stop and get a box of tests. Chances are he'll be on board, and maybe even excited! Men don't get to live the ups and downs of this part of baby making, so it might be fun for him :)

My FRER this morning looks identical to the one a couple of days ago. I need to just stop testing. I remember driving myself crazy comparing lines and worrying they weren't darkening fast enough. I honestly believe that there is a plan out there greater than my own, and I need to learn to let some things go. I do solemnly swear to not test for at least 2 days!!

I'm going to call the DR. today. I'm dreading the conversation, honestly. We had a talk recently (when I switched birth control) about being finished having kids, and how I can't handle any more. I see concerned looks in my future. :dohh: Ah well... it's important. I also need to call my insurance. Ugh. Yesterday DH drove out to a vitamin shop a half hour away from our house to get the prenatals that I took with all 3 other kids. They are incredible (and expensive... *gulp*) but they were the highest rated prenatal that didn't make me want to puke right after taking them. Luckily I've been taking a super cheap prenatal already! I bought them when I was breastfeeding to make sure I was getting enough nutrients, and it's a 200 day supply. I didn't want to waste them, so I've been taking them in place of my normal daily vitamin. 

In other news... anyone else's LO really into pulling hair lately? It's driving me nuts. Max grabs on and laughs and yanks incredibly hard! Maybe it feels nice between his fingers? I've taken to always wearing a pony tail to avoid it. He also ripped off my necklace the other day :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy--I totally see how that conversation will be interesting. But how exciting too to be going through the pregnancy process again!! So happy to hear that your dh is so thrilled! I know it'll be a lot of extra work and stress on you, but I'm sure you will fall into the role of mum to 4 very easily and quickly!

As for the hair-pulling---yes, Camden LOVES to pull my hair. . .every time I carry him. . .And he EATS it every time he pulls it. Needless to say, I've seen a few come through his digestive tract! :blush: :haha:


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> As for the hair-pulling---yes, Camden LOVES to pull my hair. . .every time I carry him. . .And he EATS it every time he pulls it. Needless to say, I've seen a few come through his digestive tract! :blush: :haha:

Eewww... :rofl: That's too funny. Just wait until they start eating solids!! I remember the first time I fed DDs blueberries... good times :haha:

Thank you for your kind words about having 4 kids! I think I can handle it. I have no choice, right? AND I keep telling myself I have a long time to get used to the idea and get better at 3 kids before adding another.


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## SierraJourney

Exactly! And we're all be here for you the entire time whenever you need to vent! :)

So, you and DH better get working on names again! ;)


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## wamommy

Oh noooooo, not names!! :dohh::dohh: :dohh: :dohh: I hadn't thought about that. I better start now, since it will probably take the entire pregnancy to agree! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

lol... I remember the hard time you had with finding Max's name! Hopefully it'll come easier since you're more practiced at picking names now. ;)


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## helena

helena said:


> wamommy said:
> 
> 
> So, the test dried a little, and looks a TAD darker to me? What do you think?
> 
> There can be no doubt surely!!!!!! Woohoo!Click to expand...


Omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg I didn't realize that was you wamommy, I thought it was dragon. Oh bloody hell. A fourth!!!! How very very very exciting. How did you go at the doctors?

Oooh i am jealous ;) did you not suspect at all?

I felt jealous last night, so got a bit jiggly with DH but he made sure we were safe...bugger.


Omg wamommy, I can't believe it! :wacko::img::dance::loopy::shock::shock:
Don't give up yet dragon, its not over until the witch has landed x x x x


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## SierraJourney

Helena, are you trying for a fourth then too?


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## wamommy

Haha Helena!! I AM shocked!! I thought my birth control (which I have hated and makes me feel like crap) was the culprit. I haven't had any symptoms, except for a bit of digestive issues (sorry tmi) so I had no idea! I'm actually forever grateful to Dragon... If she hadn't been testing I wouldn't have tested, and I wouldn't know. 

It's funny that you're getting broody now, too! It is infectious, isn't it?


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## DragonflyWing

I want to test again :shock:


Third morning urine is pretty pointless, right? I'm definitely not going to see more than with FMU. Now that I have all these ICs I'm finding it hard to curb the urge.

It's really an addiction! I can hear the tests calling me from the bathroom! :rofl:

I want a FRER :sulk:. Can't get one until at least tomorrow, more likely Sunday.


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## Kellen

Teagen loves to tug on my hair. I did manage to get a haircut this morning so it is a couple inches shorter. She also loves to rub my dad's bald head. Right now she is chewing on my cell phone. I think she is texting my mother-in-law.

Wamommy - I was just thinking about your naming dilemma as well. Are you hoping for another boy to be playmates with Max or a girl? Just to add an even more complex piece to the puzzle.... multiples?

Dragon - Let's hope your DH springs for a box of FRERs. I'm still going with positive though.

And yes, Teagen did call my MIL. :HEHE:


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## wamommy

Dragon, it is an addiction. I feel like I've relapsed :haha: I agree that you should get FRERs as soon as possible. Maybe the ICs aren't as sensitive? I still see a shadow on today's though.

Kellen, I haven't even thought about gender preference or anything, yet! I just turned to DH and asked him, and he said he wants to be team yellow :haha: I guess we DO have all of the girl and all of the boy stuff. As Max sits here on my lap grunting and babbling away, perhaps a boy to play with would be best for him? I don't know, lol... I can't believe I'm thinking about this.

I never give Max my cell phone, because last time I did he used data, and we got charged!!! Luckily the cell phone company took off the charges when we explained :dohh: Maybe Teagen is a technological genius?


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## helena

Ha. No we aren't trying. DH is pretty adamant. Plus with my mum not beng well it isn't a good idea. I need to be flexible travel wise for the next year...and I don't think i could handle the post baby hormones if my mum had left us or was very sick. Or for her to worry about not meeting my baby just in case...it has been great with Kiara. She has been able to see her lots, probably more than either boy, Kiara is our special angel child, sent to make us all smile. See, even just thinking about another is making me sad..

In an ideal world maybe. But three is our magic number :) I just love the adrenaline of finding out you are pregnant, meeting baby etc...it is addictive!

Oh wamommy, its still amazing me!

Kiara is also a hair puller. She met another baby today, up close. It's the first time. Se was so rough! Grabbing ears, eyes, the baby's dress and toys! It was commented "oh, I can see you have two big brothers"! Lol


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## DragonflyWing

I texted my sister and asked her to pick up a frer on her way home, and she answered "Oh, I have one of those upstairs!" :rofl:

So I don't even have to buy one! :happydance:

I just got a light line on another IC. I think this one might be more visible than the last. I'll try to get a picture.


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## helena

I didnt get a proper line whe i didnt need to squint, on an IC until about a week after a line on a less sensitive test...


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## wamommy

That's how Max is, too. He explores through grabbing. :haha: His big sisters are always hugging and tickling him, so he thinks everyone likes it! We've only seen a couple of babies lately, but he's been VERY curious about them. I haven't let him get close, though, because he's so rough. A good friend's baby is only 6 weeks old, and I can see Max hurting him if left to it!

I understand your reasons for not wanting another, Helena. I hadn't thought of your Mom's illness. :( How is she doing, by the way? Do you have plans to see her again soon? 3 IS a wonderful number, and I love the dynamic with 3. I grew up with an older sister and a younger brother, so perhaps that's why I'm so comfortable in our current set-up? 

How are your boys doing with Kiara? Are they gentle with her? I'm a bit worried because as Max gets older and more "fun" for the girls, they are getting a bit rough with him. I turned my back while cooking dinner the other night and Nica (DD#2) was spinning Max in his doorway jumper!! The poor little guy looked completely confused. I take Max to the bathroom with me sometimes because I'm afraid they'll rough house too much while I'm gone :dohh:


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## wamommy

Oooh Dragon, show us, show us!!


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## SierraJourney

Yay on the frer Dragon--can't wait to see the IC line, too. Post a pic!

Yes, helena, how is your mum doing?


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## DragonflyWing

It showed up within 10 minutes this time...can't get a very good picture of it, but I can see it in person:
 



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## SierraJourney

I see it I see it!! Hooray! Can't wait for the frer!


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## wamommy

I can see it too! Are you going to hold out for FMU with the FRER? How lucky that she had one!


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## Kellen

Oooh! I can see the line too! So exciting. Nice that there was already and FRER in the house.

I was never a test junkie. I think I've taken a whole 7 poas my entire life. 1 for a chemical. 2 for ectopic. 1 the month before trying to Teagen. 2 for Teagen. Okay, so my math was a bit off... 6. But watching other people test is addictive.

Teagen loves to watch other kids. We are trying to find some mommy/baby groups so she can interact with other little ones. There was a tiny 2 month old at the grocery store the other day and she was fascinated. I wouldn't dare let her get close to a smaller infant as she likes to grab as well. The poor cat is traumatized. She loved Teagen until my dad didn't hold Teagen's hand while letting her "pet" the cat. Thankfully the cat is a manx and doesn't have a tail... just long fur.


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## helena

I see it! Frer ASAP!!

She is ok thanks Girls. She has has two months without treatment and is much happier, able to do a few little things about the house now rather than just sitting feeling exhausted. So that's great. She still isn't hardly eating so that's a massive worry, but she is happier and that's all we can want really I guess. Sill no idea on prognosis. She doesn't want to know, so we have to go with that.
Taking life one week at a time. And this week she is happier so I am happier.
Plans to visit her mid September after settling my boys into theirs new school.


Fingers and toes crossed for you dragon, I sense your heart is set on it now :)


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## DragonflyWing

I'm going to try REALLY hard to hold out for FMU with the FRER. 

I know! I never considered that she might have one (she's 18 :huh:), but she said she skipped a period when she switched BC pills, and she got paranoid. I'm familiar with that feeling lol.

I'm sure I'll be taking another IC tonight if I have any hope of waiting until the morning to use the FRER. :haha:


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## helena

Oh I will be waiting dragon :)

The boys are quite rough with Kiara at times, but she is tough and usually they just want to play..Sam (ds2) wasn't keen on her until she was 6 months. Now he loves her. Sometimes they love her a bit much. Many tight hugs... but i dont fully trust sam with her yet. there is still some jealousy and the posibility of a little nip here Or there.
and Teddy (ds1) does insist on carrying her and showing his friends how he can hold her and walk..hopefully he will go off that now she is getting bigger and wriggler and grabs his hair.
Lol, we have had issues with the door hanger too - she has had a good swing before...lol


Have updated my signature. Finally :)


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so glad to hear that your Mom is happier and doing well. It must be hard for you to not know the prognosis, but it's wonderful that you're so supportive :D Love the new sig too! I need to update mine, apparently :dohh:

Dragon, if you can hold off until the morning with t he FRER I think you'll get the best result, but I don't blame you for wanting to test again tonight with another IC. I will most certainly be checking back!! 

Kellen, we have a couple of cats who adore the kids, but aren't too sure about the baby. Our big male cat actually BIT him the other day. DH freaked out and chased him around the house yelling at him :haha: He hasn't gone near the baby since!

We're heading out for another bike ride. The girls are loving it, and ask to go every day. I can't complain, since they sleep so much better after some exercise :D I need the walk too. The better they get at riding, the faster I have to walk, so it's getting to be quite a workout for me too! That reminds me, those last 5 pounds I have to lose may be here to stay :( I was so close! Ugh... I may have to watch my diet a bit this time around or I will be a house!


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## DragonflyWing

My sister gave me her test, and it's actually a First Response Gold Digital...not a FRER. Apparently it detects the same level of hcg as a FRER though. Anyone know if that's true?

It gives a "YES +" or "NO -" result. I'm terrified to take it! :shock: Definitely not using that tonight!


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## wamommy

After a very quick search of the First Response website, apparently regular FRERs state "up to 6 days before" and the digital says "up to 5 days before" a missed period, so it might not be quite as sensitive? I'll do a little more research. Either way, I definitely think you should save it! Digitals are the best, right? There's no guessing! The only problem is, even if it says "no" you could still be preggo and it just didn't pick it up, yet. I say take that one the day you expect your period? I have no idea! LOL I'm just rooting for you!!

Did you tell your SIL what's going on, then? What did she say?


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## wamommy

Ok, I was wrong! Apparently both FRERs are 25 miu, and I found some interesting stats. 


> The First Response Gold Digital Pregnancy Test claims to be 58 percent accurate four days before a missed period, but experts dispute that. An independent study measuring the accuracy of the claims of six home pregnancy tests shows the First Response Gold Digital is only 42 percent accurate at four days before an expected period. That rises to 68 percent accuracy at three days before and 100 percent accuracy three days after a missed period. Like all pregnancy tests, First Response Early Result assumes an approximate 28-day cycle. Women with longer cycles may take longer to build up enough hCG for positive testing, leading to a fairly high rate of false negatives.

So if you're 10 dpo it would only be 42% accurate, but 68% accurate tomorrow? Not bad!!


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## wamommy

Sorry to blab on about it, but I read some reviews who said that as soon as you take it out of the package it's activated, so don't take it out until right when you want to use it!

I can't wait! I can... I will... because tonight wouldn't be as accurate, but I'm excited!


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## SierraJourney

I'm so anxious to hear tomorrow too!!


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## SierraJourney

Oh ladies.. I'm at the ball game and called my Mum to see how Camden went down and she said he absolutely refused his bottle... (we feed him to sleep)... she tried over and over again and he kept refusing.... so he cried and cried... finally she was able to rock him to sleep. :( I just feel awful ladies... and I don't even want to be at the game any more. My poor baby was so upset he wouldn't eat! :( dh doesn't even seem to care... :( that bothers me too. :(


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## wamommy

Oh Sierra, I'm so sorry :( How tough! Luckily you'll be home to cuddle him, soon. I know how hard it must be, and how you get a knot in your very heart when your baby is in distress. That said, I'm sure he'll be ok. It isn't all the time, and I'm sure your Mom did the very best she could to comfort him. :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy. Yeah my mom is great... just hurts my heart.. we never go out and now we finally do and Camden has a bad night. :( I'm sure he'll be up a bit in the night because he will be hungry... and I'm actually looking forward to it so I can cuddle him. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks for the info! I'll be 12dpo tomorrow, so the accuracy should be pretty high.

Yep, I told my sister that I might be pregnant. She said either way it would work out fine, so not to worry :)


I'm looking forward to a definitive answer!


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## helena

Oh time differences are a pain..I am up and waiting ladies.. X


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## SierraJourney

I am reunited with my baby who slept through the night last night in spite of not taking his bottle! :). he was extremely happy to see me this morning! :) all is well.

And now I'm waiting too!!


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## DragonflyWing

Digital says "NO -"


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## SierraJourney

Aww Dragon I'm sorry! Perhaps it was too early for it to read a yes?


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## DragonflyWing

Maybe, because this IC looks positive to me. I can even see it on the non tweaked photo. This was well within 10 minutes.

Looks like I'll need a FRER after all!
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh looks positive to me!! Get a real frer! Haha so exciting!!


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## DragonflyWing

My sister has a job interview this morning, so she's going to pick up a FRER for me on her way home.


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## SierraJourney

Awesome! Hopefully it's a bonus pack so you get extra!


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## Kellen

Sierra - I am glad to hear that Camden slept through the night even though he had a tough time going down. I don't know why DH's are seemingly so insensitive about being away from a distraught baby. This has caused a couple of minor arguments between DH and I. Now he knows to schedule any "dates" or away time after bedtime or make sure we can take Teagen with us.

Dragon - Hhmmm... I'm glad that your sister is able to pick up and FRER for you. I can still see the positive lines on the other tests. I guess we'll find out. As AF showed up as predicted?

Helena - Bummer about the time difference. How did we manage to become a board of mostly Americans? 

I found the FRER I was looking for... too bad it was the one I took with Teagen :rofl: I knew I had seen one floating around. I guess I won't be taking any tests any time soon! I have some nice O pain this morning. Maybe I'll test fate tonight and see if the IUD is really 99.9% effective.


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## DragonflyWing

No AF yet, here's the latest FRER:
 



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## wamommy

Oh Dragon, dang it! It's ok, though, because I still see something on the other tests! I think a regular FRER is the way to go, for sure. Thank goodness your SIL is able to help out :) 

Sierra, I'm glad Camden is fine and happy to see you this morning! DHs can be quite insensitive. Sometimes when Max is fussy DH says (jokingly, but still) "I'm going to build you a sound-proof room!" I always just glare at him and go about comforting my kid :haha:

HAha, I guess no testing for you, Kellen! Have fun testing out your IUD, though :winkwink:

As for me, considering this is completely unplanned pregnancy, I'm doing way too much worrying. What will be, will be, right? So why am I so paranoid? I didn't even know about this baby a couple of days ago! Now I'm obsessing over FRERs 48 hours apart that haven't darkened, and my test this morning (so much for not testing for 2 days :dohh:) is lighter... I think. I need to just let it go. I'm just making myself looney.


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## wamommy

Dragon, I SWEAR I see something on that!


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## Kellen

Dragon - I don't really see anything on the FRER. :shrug: But it is a good thing you got the group testing so Wamommy could find out. If I were you I'd wait a day or two more before testing again.

Wamommy - Hopefully you'll be able to get to a doctor to get the "official" test done and let us the results. This is still very exciting. I just have to stay up past 9:30 in order to test out the IUD. :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

There's something there, but once again it's so faint I can't be sure.

I've been getting "maybe" lines for 5 days now, if they were really positive, wouldn't they be getting darker? 

Oh well, I guess I'll be testing again in the morning. :(


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry, Dragon. I wish you could get a definitive answer!! :hugs:


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## wamommy

Ok, so I'm comparing pics driving myself insane... I don't think I'm imagining things, though! The tests are lighter, not darker, I think. After a couple of trips down Chemical Lane, I'm starting to think it's headed that way.

The first FRER is from Wednesday, the second from yesterday (48 hours apart). The first Dollar Store test is yesterday, the second this morning.
 



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## DragonflyWing

I don't think the second FRER looks lighter, and the dollar store ones are not quite as consistent in general. I had varying intensities on cheapies when I was pregnant with the twins. Is there any other reason why you think it might be a chemical? I wouldn't worry too much based on the tests.


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## wamommy

I guess I'm worried because I didn't have any symptoms... and I compared my tests to Max's and these are way lighter. AND I'm a generally anxious worrier in general :dohh:


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## Kellen

I think you need to get off the testing train and wait. Maybe this is just one of those awesome pregnancies that I've read about. Hopefully you will just fly through it with no symptoms and gain that magical glow. I know all that is easier said that done and I was a complete basket case during the first trimester, but we are here for you. I think this is one of the reasons I only tested to confirm the pregnancy and then waited until the doctor said yea or nay. :hugs:


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## wamommy

You're both totally right. I have one Dollar Store test left, and I will refuse to buy any more. I called my Doctor and her nurse told me that they won't see me until 6 weeks from my last period, which isn't for 2 more weeks! :growlmad: But you're right. Testing crazily and getting all worried doesn't do anything productive. Maybe I'll go do pilates and relax :D


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## Kellen

Convince your DH to take you out to a nice dinner.

Is Teagen just crazy or has anyone else's LO learned that they can breathe through their mouth as well as their nose? She just discovered this and is now panting like a dog whenever she gets excited.


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## wamommy

LOL Max does this. He kind of smiles and growls while he's doing it, too. Then he dramatically inhales through his mouth like he's gasping for air. :haha: 

Pilates: done. I like the dinner idea. I'm about to reheat a leftover buffet for lunch. Once a week I take all leftovers out of the fridge, heat them all, then put them on the counter. Everyone grabs a plate and chooses which leftovers they want. Anything not eaten goes in the garbage. :D


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## helena

Wamommy, you need one of those digital ones with the conception indicator. Only when mine moved to 2-3 weeks did I believe I was actually pregnant with Kiara. Lines darker or lighter are so subjective. Get conception indicators. Two of them. One now one in a week xx


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## DragonflyWing

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they sell the ones with conception indicators in the US. At least, they didn't a year ago.

I'm getting cramps like AF is about to start. If nothing else, that will end the suspense!


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## helena

7 months old today! How did that happen!? 

Had her 6 month check up the other day, at 7 months. She is very much average on all measurements. 67cm and 7.9 kilos (17.4 pounds). Considering she was 2.5 kilos (5.5 lbs) when we left the hospital i am very happy. especially considering she is being fussy lately and only having about 350-400ml milk a day... She just prerfers food :)

The doctor also listened to her chest and said she has some bronchiolitis :( I had no idea. No treatment, just some ventilin if she is breathing too fast. I guess it is maybe why she is waking a bit more often, but really she seems fine (I had no idea!) and eats well and is smiley and happy as always.

Kiara wore shoes out today for the first time :)

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_40DA44E1.jpg


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## helena

Sorry about your cramps :(.. Bt I had them and my bfp before....xx

If you want conception indicators sending I can! https://uk.clearblue.com/clearblue-...ital-pregnancy-test-with-conception-indicator


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, I agree with everyone else. I worried about that too when I was pregnant... I bought dollar store tests and only allowed myself to test once a week after that. 

Helena, Kiara is just gorgeous! Love the picture!

We spent half of the morning trying to figure out what to do today... it's so hard with Camden because he's so fussy. Dh finally decided we'd go to a street fair with my sister and her family. He was grumpy the entire time there and when we finally got home he started complaining about how he realized today that he has no life-- (because we can't do what he would like on the weekends because Camden wouldn't tolerate most things). So the entire day he was moody because of something we can't change. He does this quite often and I don't know what to do about it.... I mean, there are loads of things I'd love to do but I know I have to sacrifice for Camden... so I try to just enjoy what we can do...and honestly I just appreciate any chance to get out and about on weekends. He loves Camden I know but he keeps saying how he's not free any more and tied down. I don't know what the heck to do with him... it always makes me stressed when we're out because I know he's mad... so it just makes it hard for all of us. I think he needs to stop being so pessimistic but he gets furious whenever I mention that and says I don't understand.... arch... any advice or know what works for you guys dhs?


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so sorry things are tense with DH :( I completely understand. We have fights about different things, but I understand the stress it can cause. After all, being married should be a true partnership. Perhaps he doesn't realize the things you've given up? Maybe an honest conversation about how hard everything with Camden's fussiness has been on you would give him some perspective. Also, it's not permanent! To everything there is a season, and this one is just particularly hard for you guys. Either way, I hope it gets better. :hugs:

I WISH they sold those conception indicators here! I just looked and they're $20 PER TEST on ebay... haha. Way to take advantage of the manic testing lady :wacko: I talked to DH about it today... my fears that this isn't a viable pregnancy. My guilt over a tiny part of my brain feel like if this pregnancy doesn't work it's my own fault for not "wanting" this baby... even though I do, on some deep level. Ugh... so complicated. Anyhow, he said we'd buy more FRERs tomorrow, since HCG should have more than doubled by then. He says if it still isn't darker than I may have room for concern, but not yet.

Kiara is so beautiful! She looks like a little doll :D I'm loving the shoes. Max can't wear shoes, because his feet are so small, but fat, that shoes slip off of his non-existent heel! I hope her bronchilolitis clears up, poor girl... although it sounds like she's quite a trooper!

Dragon, I have cramps now, too :shrug: I wouldn't think it's conclusive! I agree, though... even if AF does come, at least it would end the misery of not knowing. I still think you aren't out, though. Do you have a test for the morning?


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks, yes I have a FRER for the morning, but I almost don't want to use it... I've wasted so many tests over the past few days. I don't want to see another negative or " maybe" result heh.

I've been unbelievably tired today, and I've gotten dizzy several times... just not feeling my best. I'll see how I feel in the morning. Maybe I'll just wait and see if AF shows up, and if not, I'll test in a few days.


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## DragonflyWing

I got this on an IC a few minutes ago, but then it disappeared! What the heck?
 



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## SierraJourney

Ahhh! That looks positive to me! Not sure why it disappeared though! Weird.....


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## Kellen

Helena - Kiara is getting to be such a big girl! She is absolutely beautiful.:) The shoes are adorable. Happy 7 Month Birthday! That is so awesome that she loves food. Sorry to here about her minor breathing trouble, but it doesn't seem to be bothering her too much.

Dragon - You have the most odd test results. :shrug: I guess we'll wait and see if AF shows up for you. 

Sierra - DH and I have disagreements as well. It is really hard because they really don't seem to understand that they aren't the only one who has had to make sacrifices and change their entire life. Whenever Teagen is taking up a lot of my time (when isn't she?) I try to make it into a bit of a game to divide my attention between the two of them. The other morning DH commented: "When people said life would change after having a baby I didn't believe them. Now I do. I can't do whatever I want when I want to." This was said in reference to wanting to snuggle with me in bed... but there was a baby between us.

Wamommy - I'm glad I'm not the only one with an overly dramatic mouth breathing baby. She doesn't do it all the time, just when she gets super excited or wants attention.

My MIL had what they are a "mini-stroke" yesterday. Although I feel terrible for her I am so proud of my DH. He is growing up. Before if this would have happened he would have been on a plane almost immediately in order to help "Mama" but this time he didn't mention it. In fact, he told me he is still exciting about going to Portland to finish his degree next week. It seems like he is finally letting go of some of the apron strings at 39 and realizing that Teagen and I are his primary responsibilities.


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## SierraJourney

Exactly Kellen- it really does seem like they don't understand that they aren't the only ones making sacrifices... :(


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## wamommy

Dragon, that line is clear as day! How strange that it disappeared! Have you asked in the pregnancy test section if anyone else had this happen, and what it meant for them? I'm dying to know!! When is AF due?

Kellen, is your MIL ok? Good for DH for prioritizing you and Teagen :D 

Max has his "6 month" appointment on Tuesday, finally! The Doctor has been out of town all month so we'll be almost a month behind like you, Helena. Ah well, I'm just so curious about his height and weight, and it always feels good to have some reassurance that he's doing well.


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Exactly Kellen- it really does seem like they don't understand that they aren't the only ones making sacrifices... :(

I sometimes think that they think that as women, it's what we're "supposed" to do. It isn't a sacrifice in their eyes, because it's our natural calling... :dohh: I don't think my DH understands why it's so important to me to finish my Masters and go back to work someday. (Ahhhh crud... didn't even think about that yet... but I guess it's delayed a year) How do I explain that wanting a career DOESN'T mean I don't totally love my roll as Mom? Our life has completely changed over the years, and honestly the adjustment gets easier. Once the shock of giving up your own life and time for the love of your child wears off a bit, it becomes a source of pride (even for DH!) and not contention. I hope :haha:


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## Kellen

Yes, thank you, my MIL is fine. I personally think it was more of an attack of exhaustion than a stroke. She was driving, started feeling tired and was loosing focus. The CT didn't show any sign of a stroke and her vitals were all excellent. She tends to be a bit of a drama queen. However, the good news is that we found out the whole family quite smoking cigarettes and move onto electric cigarettes that use vapor. Not the best, but it is a step in the right direction.

Wamommy - What are you getting your Master's in? I'm doing my final year(s) of grad school online. I loved having a career in government, but right now being a mommy is a priority. I told DH that I'd like to go back to work once Teagen goes to Kindergarten. 

I agree with your assessment that it seems like we are just supposed to be at ease with giving up some of our perceived freedoms because we were the ones who gave birth. Thankfully DH and I have been very open about this recently and he has started to take a lot more responsibility upon himself. Instead of waiting for me to ask for help he now volunteers. Right now he called off work because I have a 7 page paper (which I'm supposed to be writing right now...) due this evening. But he is taking care of Teagen so I can finish it up.


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## DragonflyWing

AF was due yesterday. :shrug:

Kellen, I'm glad your DH seems to be letting go of the "apron strings" a bit... also glad that your MIL is ok. I wonder why they're calling it a mini stroke if there were no signs of stroke?


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## Kellen

I think it was to appease the family. She has a heart condition so they gave her Plavix to reduce junk in her arteries. They wanted her to do an MRI, but she refused because they won't have insurance until December due to FIL just getting a new job.

Well, if AF is late I would say those maybe lines are pretty conclusive, Dragon. At least your DH is getting on the bandwagon with you. I'm glad that he is going to be supportive.


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## wamommy

If AF is now late, I'd say use a regular FRER in the AM if she hasn't shown up by tomorrow morning! 

Kellen, my BA is in English with a teaching emphasis from University of Washington, but I didn't like teaching very much. I don't have a ton of patience for high school (the age I taught) kids who don't want to be there and are disruptive. I may like younger ages better, when they still have a joy about being in school? Idk... there were good things about it too. Anyhow, I went back to get my Masters in Counseling Psychology to switch over to school counseling, and perhaps private practice. I only have one year left to go! My plan was to go back once Max is in Kindergarten, too.


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## DragonflyWing

I have one FRER left that I'm saving... maybe I'll take it tomorrow, not sure.

Here's this morning's test after it dried.
 



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## SierraJourney

I think you're right wamommy.... thank you.. at least I'm not alone! 

Dragon, is AF usually late for you? That sounds promising since she hasn't shown yet!


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## DragonflyWing

Well, before I had the twins, my luteal phase was 11 days long. If I ovulated on August 12th, AF should have arrived the 24th. I'm pretty sure I have O day correct, because I felt distinct ovulation pain that day.

I suppose my luteal phase could be different now, but I'm on CD 30 today, so shouldn't be much longer to wait if AF is coming.


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## wamommy

How long have your cycles been since you got AF back after the twins? Have they been pretty consistent?

Looking back on my cycles, I should have known something wasn't "right" with my birth control. I was on Micronor when I was breastfeeding, and then switched over to Ortho Tri Cyclen 2 cycles ago (this would be my 3rd pack of pills). The first cycle seemed pretty normal, but my AF was only 2 days long. The second cycle AF didn't come as she was supposed to, but was 4 days late and SO heavy. Then this happened... so I don't think it ever worked as it's supposed to. I'll have to discuss it with my Dr once I can see her.

Are you still having cramps? Any other symptoms?


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## DragonflyWing

Nothing really except sore breasts today, but I did sleep until noon, and I was SO tired yesterday afternoon. I was exhausted for no good reason, and several times I got really dizzy.

I'm beginning to accept that AF is coming. I think I was really starting to hope I was pregnant :(. Well, maybe DH and I can start thinking about actually trying in the next 6 months or so.

How are you feeling, wamommy? Any symptoms yet?


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## wamommy

At the very least you realize where your mind and heart are, and that you really want another baby. That's huge. I think if AF comes you should NTNP and let nature decide :D Easier said than done, I know. I can understand the change in emotions, though. The terror of another baby quickly subsides when faced with the reality of it, and it's amazing how it changes to an attachment. I went from wishing I wasn't pregnant blush:) to fearing losing this baby in a day. I can imagine your pattern went somewhat the same. The terror turned to hope, and I want so badly for this to go your way. If not, perhaps the "scare" had a purpose after all, ya know?

I don't have any symptoms still! Too weird, right? When I was trying I had every symptom in the book. Actually, the only real symptom is that everything really stinks to me. I can smell the cat box when I walk in the front door, and it's clear on the other side of the house. The car, the carpet, the kids haha:) all kind of stink at the moment. Hopefully it passes!


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## Kellen

Just told DH that I am having fairly bad O pain and that if we didn't have an IUD in we could make a baby. He then replied: "Well, pop that sucker out. I'll go drop Teagen off at your parents and we'll make a baby!" :dohh: Not exactly what I had in mind...


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## SierraJourney

:haha: Kellen! My dh is the exact opposite right now- he is trying extra protection and even bought me some tests today so I can test once a month just in case my birth control fails like wamommy's! :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

And I'm kind of the opposite and all of this pregnancy talk is making me anxious and itchy to grow another life! :). So happy I can live that through Wamommy and Dragon right now. :)

I'm wondering if AF is about ready to finally come for me... I've been crampy and sore... I haven't missed it this last year or so though!


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## wamommy

:rofl: Kellen, that is too funny!! Good to know that whenever you're ready, he's on board!

:rofl: Sierra, that's too funny that your DH bought tests! I would say, "awww... don't worry, birth control won't fail!" but now I know that it just might!! I didn't know you hadn't had an AF yet. Fun, fun! In a way it's nice, though, to get back to normal.


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## SierraJourney

Yeah no AF yet! Am I the last one to get it? I'm hoping it returns back to normal soon but so far nothing... which worries dh even more because we don't have that as a sign that birth control is working... lol...hence the tests! :rofl:


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## wamommy

LOL I see! That makes total sense. In theory, you could be months pregnant and not even know :haha: I know that isn't funny, but it kind of is. The tests are probably wise!


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## SierraJourney

Yeah that's what we think- i just don't want to be taking birth control for months if we do end up pregnant! BTW, you have stopped yours right?!


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## wamommy

Oh ya, lol. I kind of freaked out about that and went google crazy! I think it's fine, especially since I found out fairly early. (Insert another huge thanks to Dragon!) I actually asked the nurse about it when I called to make an appointment, and she said it's really common :wacko: Nice.

DH bought me a pack of FRERs today :) I'm thinking if it's significantly darker than the one 2 days ago, I'll just save the other one or mail it to one of you :haha: 

Max has been really fussy all day. Maybe his tooth is ready to emerge? Maybe he has a little bug? I'm not sure, but it's unlike him. Usually he will play nicely in his jumper or exersaucer while I cook dinner, but tonight he fussed and fussed so much that DH took over dinner so I could feed him. Hopefully he'll mellow out soon :(


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## Kellen

DH wants 6 kids, in all seriousness. I want just Teagen, but we'll compromise and have one more in several years.

I had a sort of AF on June 28, but it was really light and only lasted 3 days.

Too funny about the tests, Sierra. I guess you won't need to be sneaky about testing.


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## helena

Dragon, really give up the ICs. Mine didnt show a decent one until a week after missed period. Despite claiming to be super sensitive.
I bought a normal mid range cheap test fom the pharmacy, not especially sensitive, cheaper than frer and it showed before the IC.


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## DragonflyWing

You're right...plus, I have terminal line-eye. I'm seeing lines on every test I look at, even before I use it! :haha: When I go into the pg test forum, I see lines on everyone's tests, even the ones everyone else says are negative. I don't know what's going on, I actually see it, even though it's apparently not there! I can't trust my own eyes anymore.

AF still hasn't arrived. I guess I'll take my last FRER tomorrow or Wednesday if it doesn't show up.


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## Kellen

I would hold off until Wednesday. That way you can be really, really sure. I wonder if that is a diagnoseable disease? Pregnancy Test Line-Eye...


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, I think it should be a recognized disease!

DH has been SO crabby the past few days. He was gone Friday night and most of the day Saturday helping his brother move some stuff to storage, and he came home Saturday evening in the worst mood. He was immediately being impatient with the babies, and almost yelling at them to "stop whining" (they were fine until he got home and then they were upset because of his tone of voice, I think). 

Yesterday, I told him that my sister and I wanted to leave at 4pm to go grocery shopping. He wanted to empty some stuff out of his van before we left, but he kept getting sidetracked doing other things and didn't start until 3. I went out at 3:40 and reminded him that we needed to leave in 20 minutes if I was going to be able to get back in time to pump, and he got all irritated and said "I didn't even get to start until 3, I need to finish this now." I tried helping him to make it go faster, but we didn't end up leaving until 5:30 :growlmad:

After the babies were in bed, DH was still majorly moody, so I asked him what was wrong. He just said he had had a bad day. I asked if there was anything I could to do help, and he told me to go wash the dishes :huh:

When I left for work this morning, he was still in a funk. All this time he doesn't speak to me unless I ask him a direct question, and then he gives me monosyllabic answers in a very flat tone of voice. He seems really depressed, but I'm not sure why or what I should do.


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## wamommy

I don't have much experience with ICs, but I understand line eye. It like, since we've looked at SO many tests our brain inserts a line where we know it should be. That said, I've seen lines on your tests, too! It's too weird that AF hasn't shown up and yet you aren't getting a blaring positive. I think testing tomorrow with a FRER if she hasn't shown up is a great idea.

I took a FRER this morning. It's darker. I guess I better wrap my head around it. I'm actually struggling a bit today. I fought with DH last night (about the usual stuff) and I spent all night awake thinking I've absolutely boxed myself into a life (more specifically a marriage) that doesn't make me happy at all. We stay together for the kids, but disagree on some pretty fundamental stuff. I'm hoping some of what I'm feeling is hormones, because I'm pretty miserable today. 

I tried to post a pic of the FRER, but for some reason BnB is not liking me today... the pages keep not loading and I can't upload a pic. Ah well :(


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## wamommy

Got it.
 



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## DragonflyWing

I'm sorry you're feeing miserable today, wamommy. :hugs: 

I've been stressing out about financial stuff (right now our expenses exceed our income, and I'm not sure how to fix it.), so I've felt pretty wretched a lot of the time lately. I keep wishing I could win the lottery or something, heh.

It's hard to feel like your trapped in a situation. I hope things improve for you soon.


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## SierraJourney

That is a beautiful line wamommy! :) So happy for you! I'm so sorry that things are looking so dark. I don't have much wisdom in that area (except would marriage counseling help? I've heard great stories about that helping!!). . .but I wanted to tell you that we're here for you when you have a bad day or need to vent. . .not just about babies. :flowers: Also, keep in mind that I'm sure hormones play a factor. . .but not all. :) :hugs:


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## helena

DragonflyWing said:


> Haha, I think it should be a recognized disease!
> 
> DH has been SO crabby the past few days. He was gone Friday night and most of the day Saturday helping his brother move some stuff to storage, and he came home Saturday evening in the worst mood. He was immediately being impatient with the babies, and almost yelling at them to "stop whining" (they were fine until he got home and then they were upset because of his tone of voice, I think).
> 
> Yesterday, I told him that my sister and I wanted to leave at 4pm to go grocery shopping. He wanted to empty some stuff out of his van before we left, but he kept getting sidetracked doing other things and didn't start until 3. I went out at 3:40 and reminded him that we needed to leave in 20 minutes if I was going to be able to get back in time to pump, and he got all irritated and said "I didn't even get to start until 3, I need to finish this now." I tried helping him to make it go faster, but we didn't end up leaving until 5:30 :growlmad:
> 
> After the babies were in bed, DH was still majorly moody, so I asked him what was wrong. He just said he had had a bad day. I asked if there was anything I could to do help, and he told me to go wash the dishes :huh:
> 
> When I left for work this morning, he was still in a funk. All this time he doesn't speak to me unless I ask him a direct question, and then he gives me monosyllabic answers in a very flat tone of voice. He seems really depressed, but I'm not sure why or what I should do.

Could he be reading your baby n bump and know about the potential pregnancy and feel left out?!..


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## helena

That is a line and no disputing it! 
Sorry you are feeling a bit sad. ((Hug)). I bet it is hormones. They are vicious things. Yours are going bonkers. Think about your happy times.
Ultimately, what will be will be. If all goes wrong, kids are adaptable. Very. And 4 doesn't box you in an more than 3. You deserve to be happy and feeling special, especially nw so speak with DH and say its probably hormones but you need some extra cuddles. 

Xxxx


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## SierraJourney

I agree with helena, Dragon---maybe he's reading your bnb posts?


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## DragonflyWing

helena said:


> Could he be reading your baby n bump and know about the potential pregnancy and feel left out?!..

I don't think so. I only access bnb from my phone and my work computer, neither of which he has access to. He may have found one of my tests, but he would have just asked me about it. He's not one to be passive aggressive.

Last night I emptied out my stash drawer, and realized I have used 20 tests over the course of 7 days! :shock: That is ridiculous...AF needs to come before I really lose my grasp on reality :haha:

It also shows how crazy I am that I saw a line on all but maybe 2 out of those 20.


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## SierraJourney

:haha: Dragon. . .I think any one of us would have used that many too with all of the lines that we all saw! Are you testing tomorrow with a frer?


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## DragonflyWing

I suppose...if AF doesn't show up by then. I might just save it anyway. 

I'm not pregnant. The odds of getting a faint positive at 8dpo, and still not being able to see the line at 14 dpo are pretty slim. Maybe there's something about my urine that makes me prone to evaps? I've never heard of someone getting 15+ evaps.


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## SierraJourney

I've never heard of that many evaps. It's crazy. I am still holding out hope for you that there will be a line next time you test! :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks :flower:


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## wamommy

Thanks ladies :hugs: I love having you to vent to!

Honestly, in the back of my mind I always put up with this marriage because I think, "once the kids go to school I can finish my degree, and once I finish my degree I won't be dependent on DH financially and I can finally leave him." It's sad, but I've thought this for some time, now. Finding out I'm pregnant again makes that seem impossible. You're right, Helena, 4 isn't that different than 3, but a year seems like an eternity when I'm already 34. Who's going to hire a 40-year-old that's new to the workplace? I'm just feeling like I'll never be independent. I feel like a maid and a nanny in my own home. It's complicated, but my name isn't even on this HOUSE. DH put it in his parents' name so I wouldn't have claim to it in a divorce. Way to set a marriage up to fail, DH :( :(

Dragonfly, I don't get how you could have so many evaps, either! I hope for a positive tomorrow morning for you :D As for your DH, have you asked him why he's so moody? It sounds like something's going on with him that he hasn't shared. Maybe he's jealous of your relationship with your sister? or perhaps he did find a test? I don't know, but I'm sorry he's taking whatever it is out on you :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--if it's that bad, could you work it out to have a part time job that doesn't require a degree? Then you could work it while DH had the kids. I don't think you should be miserable. . . either your DH needs to work with you on working out the marriage (if that is what you wish), or you should look up other options. Do you have family you could live with? I'm huge on counseling, but know some people aren't up for it. 

It's funny because I've been thinking lately how nice it would be to quit my job and just be a "maid and a nanny" in my own house! ;) I'm lucky because I get to work from home. . .but I do envy you ladies that don't have to work!


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, I'm sorry you're feeling so badly about your marriage :hugs:. I would second Sierra's suggestion of marriage counselling...do you think something like that could help? 

Yeah, I don't know why my DH is being such a crabbypants. It's possible he's upset about my sister living with us...he seems to be dissatisfied with the amount she's helping with the kids and around the house. It seems like we were not on the same page when we discussed her moving in...he had different expectations than I realized. For some reason, he won't talk to her about any of it, he just complains to me and wants me to talk to her. She's starting school and her new job next week, so it won't be an issue for much longer...he won't expect her to help as much after that point.

I hate when DH and I aren't communicating well. I feel isolated and trapped, like my life is not in my control.


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## helena

I wouldn't even worry about counseling yet - I bet it is hormones. And genuine fear. Lets face it, 4 is scary! But brilliant :)
And lets not forget you are sleep deprived...

Take time thinking. hoping its not really so badx x x


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## DragonflyWing

Turns out DH just needed some cuddles...he was feeling lonely and distant from me just like I was feeling! 

He was all grumpy and short with me when I got home from work, and I just forced him into a hug. Within seconds he relaxed and said how much he missed me while I was gone and said we need some quality time together. After the kids were in bed, we had some quality time ;) and now he seems much better.

I told him that I suspected I was pregnant, and he said it was unlikely and I shouldn't have worried myself. That's what he said last time, and then later claimed that he knew all along :haha:

I'm about to go use my last FRER just to confirm, but I feel like AF will arrive at any moment. I'm sure it will wait until just after I test hehe.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon--I'm so glad things are better with DH! It's so hard to care for babies and keep up a relationship with your spouse-- I find I constantly have to work at that, and I miss it when we are distant! So glad you got cuddles too!

Looking forward to the FRER! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Holy evap, batman! That damn blue dye. This was a cheapie store brand I took for the heck of it.

Pretty sure this FRER is negative.
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness! How long before that line appeared on the blue dye one? frer looks negative. :( that is so weird!!


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## DragonflyWing

It was more than 10 minutes, so almost definitely an evap. 

Why do they even make blue dye tests if they so often give false "positives?" The average woman probably doesn't know what an evap is, and would completely think this was a positive result. Are pink dye tests that much more expensive to make? It seems unlikely.


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## SierraJourney

I agree. It's ridiculous! Or maybe if they use blue dye, people will get evaps and buy more tests. . .so therefore they make more money! :( I wouldnt' put that past the test companies!


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## Kellen

That is just so odd, Dragon. But I would agree that the FRER doesn't look too positive to me. But it is still a good thing you made Wamommy test or she wouldn't have known! And I'm glad that all your DH needed was cuddles. Mine was crabby last night too until I kept bugging him to tell me what was wrong. Apparently he was really upset that my mom hadn't called him personally to update him on her knee surgery and he was worried about her... awe.

Wamommy - I'm sorry you feel so trapped. But on a positive note with the way today's economy is it isn't all that unusual to see someone in their 30's starting a new career with little to no experience. Having an advanced degree is a good thing. I wouldn't worry about what people think. Because the workplace is being flooded with college graduates who have no options companies are more likely to pick up an older employee because of the life experience you have. I sat on quite a few hiring boards and this was typically the case. Thankfully I didn't look 23 when they hired me and they were later surprised. Thank goodness for all the grey hair I have!

We picked a fresh cantaloupe from the garden yesterday. I just cut it up for breakfast and it is AMAZING! I gave some to Teagen and she devoured it and is now on her third helping. It is the best fruit I have had in a long time. And more good news is my mom gets to come home a day early from her knee surgery. And I might get to fly down to the Bay Area to see my best friend who is also Teagen's godmother... who she's never met. Exciting!


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## wamommy

I'm feeling slightly better today. The same emotions are still there, but the edge is taken off a bit, if that makes sense. I think the hormones are bringing things to the surface that I've worked hard to suppress or just "deal with." I think my maternity insurance covers marriage counseling, so I might bring it up to DH today. Also, what Helena said is probably true. I'm terrified! Everything seems a bit impossible. The first couple days were just full of shock and a bit of adrenaline and excitement. Once I actually sat and THOUGHT about another baby, I started to feel like I'm drowning. 

Thank you for your encouragement about going back to work, Kellen! I hope you're right. I DO feel lucky to get to spend so much time with my kids while they're so young. It's a luxury in many ways. It's also tough, though. I miss feeling intellectually valuable and productive. I get a TON out of raising the kids, but once they start school it's a huge priority to me to get back out there and be part of the work force again.

Dragon, I'm glad DH just needed cuddles :D Silly men... why couldn't he just ask? :haha: The FRER does look negative, but what a convincing blue dye! I don't understand why they make those, either. If I hadn't started reading BnB I would have no idea about blue dye, and those tests would be so meanly convincing!! It seems like pink dye can't be THAT much more expensive, since the dollar store ones are pink! Any signs that AF is near?


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## DragonflyWing

I'm glad you're feeling somewhat better today!

Yes, I have cramps today and feel like AF is imminent. Most of my other symptoms have lessened, which usually happens the day I get my period, all my PMS symptoms start to resolve. I bet it will show up this afternoon.

DH and I agreed to dtd every other day this month...not to TTC, but to stay connected and close. So I suppose we'll sort of be NTNP.


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## wamommy

I'm so glad you two are making closeness a priority, and that you've worked out a way to make it happen! I'm sorry AF may be on her way, but I would be happy for you to have some resolution to a very confusing month. I should research if there's something in a person's specific urine that can cause evaps. I've never seen a single one when I was TTC (except for evil blue dye).


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## SierraJourney

I hope your DH wants to do counseling wamommy--I think it'll help so much! I hope you are feeling better today---- Ican't imagine how overwhelming this all is for you!! :hugs:

Dragon--yay for NTNP!!! There will be a pink line before you know it! ;)

So.. . MIL wants to come over this weekend. I don't mean to sound mean, but I'm so tired of her inviting herself over or inviting herself to see Camden. It'd be one thing if we asked her to come see him or if we went there to see her, but she always just TELLS us she's coming up. Grrr. .. .and I've seen her half of the weekends we've had. And I just want to be with my DH and Camden. . I don't want to have to schedule time with MIL. Since DH and I both work, weekends are the only time we get to do whatever we want to do as a family. . .and I just feel that MIL doesn't realize that and we have to include her in on our weekends part of the time. They have a cottage near us, so I know it'll lessen in the winter time, but during summer, they want to come up ALL of the TIME! And it wouldn't be so bad if she was more bearable around Camden. . .but she's LOUD (which scares him), she doesn't listen to me at all when I say things about Camden, and she is very anti-breastfeeding, which just upsets me soooo much because I'm very pro-breastfeeding. I understand differences in opinions, and I accept that, but I don't think it's appropriate for her to suggest to me EVERY time that I give him a bottle! (She called me this afternoon to tell me that she thinks a bottle will help him nap better!) :growlmad: 

And I'm sure you ladies understand, but DH doesn't care how much his mum comes over. . . he says she wants to be a part of Camden's life and is trying to make that happen since she lives 3 hours away. But, gosh, my Mom lives 30 minutes away and probably sees him the same amount as MIL does--maybe even LESS! And I know I'm biased, but my Mum is just so much more easy to be around with---maybe because my Mum doesn't force her parenting opinions on us. Grrr. . . . Sorry for the rant. . .I just don't want to spend ANOTHER holiday weekend having to deal with her taking my baby when I want to hold him or when he is crying for me. . .or her trying to feed him things I don't want him to have or "mentioning" again that he should be having a bottle or that he can eat ice cream now. . . etc.. . . :(

Oh, and we're going to a festival in a couple of weeks, where I have my friend and my Mum to help watch Camden (it's a music festival and we are performing--so we need people to watch him during our show).. .and MIL just told me she booked a hotel for it! So now, we'll have like 7 people (including spouses and friends) who will be fighting over who holds Camden! Poor baby is going to be exhausted. :(


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## wamommy

How frustrating, Sierra! I can totally understand not wanting to share every other weekend with you MIL. I'm a fairly private person in a lot of ways, and while I love to socialize, I really need the quiet time when it's just our family in our comfortable routine. Whenever we have house guests (no matter how much we love them!) I'm always a bit relieved when they leave. I can't imagine having someone over every weekend, much less someone who judged how I parent.

What does your DH say when you tell him how much it bothers you? Will it get better once the fall/winter comes and she doesn't want to go to her cottage so often? Could you tell her you all have an awful stomach bug that you don't want to spread to her? :haha: That always works! I'm sorry it's so difficult :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Yikes! I don't blame you for wanting a weekend without your MIL. I'd be very frustrated as well.

AF has arrived! I'm so relieved to finally be finished with all the confusion. I guess my luteal phase has extended to the standard 14 days. That's probably a good thing!

I think I might start charting again so I can have a better handle on my cycle. This last week was completely nerve-wracking! Fertilityfriend has a major discount right now on 1 year vip memberships...$25 instead of $60.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy. Everytime I say something to DH, he says "well we see your family a lot too!" (Which we see them almost the same amount of time, and I NEVER suggest seeing them. . usually DH asks if I want to take a drive to hang out with them). :doh: 

I'm hoping fall/winter makes it a bit better. . .we shall see. . . DH wouldn't go for the stomach flu thing.. .but I so wish I could use that excuse!! We told her already that we're busy this weekend (because we really want to do some work around the house and have friends coming over too), but she said "I just want to see him for a LITTLE BIT!" :doh: This is going to be a battle all of Camden's life. . . .arghh.. 

Thanks for the reassurance wamommy. . .I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes my peace!


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## SierraJourney

Yay Dragon!! So relieved for you! :hugs: I forgot how to even track my ovulation because it's been so long! haha


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## helena

See, I must also suffer line eye as I see a hint of a line on the frer! 

I think maybe you were briefly pregnant but the little egg wasnt sticky? Good luck ntnp xx


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## wamommy

Hurray for AF :D I'm glad for an end to the confusion, and a new start ntnp :yipee:


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## DragonflyWing

Certainly possible that it was a chemical...a few of those tests were very convincing. No way to know, I guess.

I have to dig out my BBT thermometer.


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## wamommy

When we were TTC Max I never did fertility friend or bbt or anything. I had a bang on 28-day cycle with a day 14 ovulation, so all I did was take an opk on cd13 and then one on day 14. With both chemicals and Max I got a positive opk cd14! Easy, peazy, but I know I was lucky to have a regular cycle! Oh, btw, the Dollar Store has ovulation tests, too :haha: I'm actually really excited that you've started this journey, Dragon! It will be fun for all of us to cheer you on.


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## wamommy

Heading out to Max's 6-month appointment! :D


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## DragonflyWing

The month I got pregnant with the twins, I never got a positive OPK, and FF never gave me definite crosshairs. I thought I hadn't ovulated at all, but it turned out I had spit out not one but two eggs! Apparently my body likes to mess with me.

Oh, I can't wait to hear how Max has grown!


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## wamommy

He's not as big as I thought! Max is 19.06 pounds and 27.5 inches long, with an 18 inch head! Everything was fine, except Max cried when the Doctor pushed on his stomach, just like the last appointment, so they ordered a cbc (blood test) to rule out any liver problems. Personally, I think he just doesn't like the Doc, because DH tried to recreate it and Max didn't cry when DH pushed on his stomach. Maybe he just doesn't like our Doctor? :haha:


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## Kellen

zaSfcdfdxceSWA~aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanjm bvvg ffvgxzxsdzx` xwXA~waa`ersedswae3Qeswaweqrfdb /kmn7m,hbgft 7vghy eszw evc2f2q2dcveeees12dces1dcvffvgbt xsw sxcfcds ` 4ewq

Brought to you by Teagen the angry typist.


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## wamommy

Kellen said:


> zaSfcdfdxceSWA~aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanjm bvvg ffvgxzxsdzx` xwXA~waa`ersedswae3Qeswaweqrfdb /kmn7m,hbgft 7vghy eszw evc2f2q2dcveeees12dces1dcvffvgbt xsw sxcfcds ` 4ewq
> 
> Brought to you by Teagen the angry typist.

:rofl::rofl:


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## Kellen

Dragon - At least you now know for certain and the rollercoaster ride is over. And it allowed you to speak freely with your DH about expectations in your relationship as well as the possibility of having more children sooner rather than later. Plus we found out that at least one of us truly is pregnant again.

Wamommy - Wow! Max is getting to be such a big boy. I'm sorry that his tummy hurts when the doctor pushes on it, but it is kind of funny to imagine him forming a dislike for your pediatrician. Poor little guy. 

I was sitting on the bed with my laptop and Teagen in my lap talking on the phone to my mom to see if she needed me to do anything for her before she came home tonight. Teagen was not pleased that I wasn't listening or paying 100% attention to her. Obviously I was checking on BnB and she decided to leave an angry message.

She is also beginning to develop awareness of strangers. We had a friend come by today that Teagen had never met before. She wasn't quite sure what to do with him. She didn't cry, but she certainly wasn't as smiley or friendly with him as she is with her immediate family members. This is pretty new as just last week she was content to smile at anyone.


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## helena

I never did temperatures either, I used those clear blue ovulation sticks (poas addict, two times a month was poas time!) I actually bought cheap out of date ones on eBay and they worked just fine. Cheapo me! It was the only way I could get the expense past DH! He was much more into the "let tauter take its course" route . Blah forget that. 

So taking your temperature suggests your are actively trying not ntnp.....;) x


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## DragonflyWing

Well...maybe a little :blush:

I told DH that I was going to start charting again, and he was all for it. He has always been supportive of fertility awareness :)


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## SierraJourney

Too cute Dragon! Sooo excited to wait with you!

wamommy--sounds like Max is growing so well! I hope they figure out the tummy issues--or that it's just a dislike for the doctor! ;)

Kellen---what a fabulous typist Teagen is! lol SO cute!!

Did I tell anyone that my sister is pregnant with her second child? I'm so excited because it is due in January--so that means it will be less than a year younger than Camden! It'll be so fun to have them so close in age!


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## DragonflyWing

Last night, we put Gunnar and Lily on our bed for tummy time, and they were army crawling all over the bed! Lily needed something to push on with her feet, but Gunnar didn't need any help at all, he just scooted across the bed lickety split! Then they stumbled across each other and had a slap fight, which was really funny, but then Gunnar accidentally scratched Lily and made her cry, so she smacked him in the face.

I see shades of the future! :haha:


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## wamommy

Yay Dragon :D So glad your DH is on board! I'm excited to see what next month brings.

Sierra, how fun about your sister! Does she live near you?

My little brother is getting married in May (woohoo!) and will probably start a family soon after, but it's still a ways away. He's 6'4" and his fiance is 5'11", so I can't wait to see if they have a giant baby!

LOL about the slap fight :haha: Get used to it!


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## SierraJourney

Oh my gosh--- so cute Dragon! Yeah, I think you can count on a few similar instances in the future! haha!

Wamommy---she lives about 45 minutes away! So not bad at all!

Giant babies would be cute! haha My other sister is 5'3" and her husband is 6'7"--their 4 year old is off the charts for height!


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## helena

"Lickety split" lol. First time I have heard that!
Well done moving twins! X


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## DragonflyWing

helena said:


> "Lickety split" lol. First time I have heard that!
> Well done moving twins! X

Haha, really? I swear I didn't make it up, it means really fast :thumbup:


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## DragonflyWing

I'm starting to think helena was right about the chemical...this period is BAD. I had endometriosis, so I've had painful periods, but this is one of the worst I've had. I almost had to leave work today because of the cramps and dizziness. Can't wait to get home to the heating pad!


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## SierraJourney

Sorry to hear your period is so bad Dragon. :( Hopefully it lets up here for you soon. :(

What is up with men and not being able to say no to their moms! So, we agreed to tell MIL that we are busy this weekend (partly because we are busy, and partly because she has poison ivy all over her body---and I've heard conflicting evidence. . .that it is contagious to others and that it isn't contagious to others. . .all I can say is that I always get it if someone else has it. . . so I'm extra paranoid about Camden getting it). So, I told mil that we are busy, then DH to her that we are busy. Now she comes back with "Can't we just do lunch or dinner?" That aggravates me SO badly because we told her we're busy already! It's a holiday weekend--we have plans---even if some of those plans are doign yardwork. . .we still have made those plans. Now DH is like--well lunch or dinner wouldn't hurt. Arghhh---stand up to her! Gah--makes me so mad! And nothing is worse than her inviting herself into our schedule. Wait for us to invite you instead of just assuming we want you over every time you're up here! ARgh. .. sorry. . .just had to get that out. :flower:


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## DragonflyWing

Yikes! I wouldn't go near her if she's covered in poison ivy...in my experience, it's usually contagious.

I don't know why some men can't say no to their mothers! I guess that's a small upside to my DH not being on speaking terms with his mother. :shrug:


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> Yikes! I wouldn't go near her if she's covered in poison ivy...in my experience, it's usually contagious.
> 
> I don't know why some men can't say no to their mothers! I guess that's a small upside to my DH not being on speaking terms with his mother. :shrug:

Thanks Dragon! I started a thread on it in the baby club, but there were mixed reviews on whether it's contagious. It always has been in my experience too. I even called Camden's pediatrician this morning and they verified that it was contagious if she scratches it and touches Camden or he touches the spots on her arms or something. . . I texted DH that and he hasn't replied back. . I think he's mad at me for saying no to his mom and not agreeing to go to dinner with her. Arghh. . I'm a bit jealous that you don't have this problem! ;)


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## Kellen

MIL can be super annoying. My DH usually can't say no to his mom either. That is why I was so proud of him for not immediately rushing off to Texas to see her when she had the mini-stroke. 

I wouldn't want anyone with poison ivy near my baby. On an odd note my mom was researching goats (which we plan to get in the spring) and she said that when goats eat poison oak or ivy it passes into their milk and if you drink it you can gain a temporary immunity. Which led my dad to ask if that meant I should go it eat it so Teagen will be immune. :dohh: Thanks, thanks dad.

AF sort of tried to show up last night? TMI but I wiped and there was a bit of blood. Yet this morning there was none. I've been having O type of pain for the past couple of days. My body is all confused. And I thought that it must have been AF because Teagen cluster fed from 5-8 last night, which has only happened when my supply dropped a bit during AF in June. I offered solids, but she didn't want them.

Last night was horrible in terms of sleep. She refused to go to sleep nursing so I finally put her in her crib and had to walk away. I then broke down into an emotional pile of noodles and sobbed into DH. Then at 1am Teagen began waking up every hour on the hour and screaming. This morning DH found another tooth that is trying to break down (he lets her chew on him... I'm not so nice so I don't know about the teeth until they are visible!). I am hoping that was the reason for no sleeping last night. Tylenol... that's all I'm going to say.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--oh my goodness, your dad sounds hilarious! I didn't know that about goats! How very interesting! I wonder if it works for cows, too?

I heard that when AF makes an appearance finally it can be months before it gets normal again? Maybe that's what is going on?

Soooo sorry that Teagen had a bad night of sleep---that is soooo hard! :( Must be the tooth. We haven't experienced that here, but I've heard horror stories about teething and sleep. I hear the Tylenol usually helps them sleep a bit more when they are teething, but again, I don't have any personal experience.. . Can't wait for more teeth pictures though!


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## Kellen

Sierra - Thanks. I think part of it had to do with DH being away for most of yesterday. We went up north with a friend to finalize his arrangements for the next 8 weeks. When he got back last night I tried to give him Teagen so I could do somethings (namely fix dinner) and she started screaming bloody murder. He hadn't taken his shaving kit and was scratchy, which she didn't take kindly too. Then he tried to put a bow in her hair. Why? No idea... It made it her mad though.

Yesterday was also the first full day my mom had been home since having knee surgery. My dad was stressing and hovering, which made my mom pissy so I sent him away to mow the lawn while I took care of her. Ended up having to make two trips into town to get meds for her that the hospital forgot to send home with her. Then my grandma found out she has skin cancer. :( Pretty sure my body hates me for being stressed. This morning I go in to have a cyst removed... fun times. Teagen is the only girl in the household who doesn't get sliced on this week.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Kellen---that sounds sooo stressful! I'm sorry..I hope things calm down soon! All of the slicing sounds awful. :(


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## helena

SurelY she won't want to come if you tell her what the doc said?
Or is she not that reasonable?


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> SurelY she won't want to come if you tell her what the doc said?
> Or is she not that reasonable?

You would think she would understand, but she's the type of woman that pretends she just has allergies when she has a cold---just so she can hold Camden anyways! :( DH and I have gotten several colds/flus because she has said "Oh it's just allergies" or "I'm better now" and we catch it from her. So, I'm actually afraid to tell her that we don't want to see her because of the poison ivy because I'm afraid the next time she won't tell us and will just show up and expose us all to it! Stupid and inconsiderate, yes, but their family has never been concerned with germs---I basically had to teach DH about germs and how he can catch things from other people! :rofl: And I'm the exact opposite---I fear germs SO much! I had a compromised immune system when I was younger (due to cancer and chemo, etc.) so germs wrecked havoc on my body. . .and I still don't have the immune system I am supposed tohave. . .So, I'm always ultra paranoid about catching things. . .be it poison ivy or the flu. . . And DH's family just doesn't worry about those things. . .


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## wamommy

That makes total sense, Sierra, and I'm sure it's doubly strong (germ fears) once you're given the responsibility of protecting your little one! I'm the same way, and wash hands obsessively and always carry hand sanitizer. The pediatrician's office is actually where I have the hardest time. I sit there and think about all of the sick kids that have been in that room all day :dohh: :dohh:

Have you heard back form your DH? Hopefully he'll just tell his Mom that you'll have to reschedule. If he doesn't want to breech the poison ivy subject, maybe he could stick to his guns about your plans? How tough! Like Dragon, there are times I feel lucky not to have MIL worries.

Kellen, I hope your surgery goes well today :hugs: Your body is probably trying to start AF, but stress can make it all wonky. It sounds like you have your fair share of stress lately! Also, once my AF came back it took 3 cycles to be "normal." The first 2 were super light and only 1-2 days long. 

Dragon, I'm sorry to hear your AF is so bad :( Maybe it was a chemical? Either way, I know it stinks. My Mom used to tell me to take 4 Advil and a glass of wine and a hot bath. Boy, does that work well!! She told me this when I was like 15, though :dohh: Just the lessen a teenager needs.

I am very ashamed. I took my last FRER. I wasn't going to, but it was sitting in the bathroom cupboard taunting me. Now I'm out of tests, and I won't buy any more. With Max, I tested until the line was darker than the control. Today, the line is WAY darker than the control, so I guess that's it. Max slept terribly last night (I think he's getting a tooth too and was up every hour) and I sat in the dark in my room, rocking him and I was swept over with such a strong love for him and gratefulness to have him, that it made it seem like everything will be ok. Each child I have was put here for a reason, and I am so very lucky to have them. I need to focus on this new baby in THAT light, and remember that emotion. 

Here's what we do with our days!
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy---Max is growing so big! Look at that hair! I have those moments in the night with Camden too---they are such little blessings. I'm so glad you have that to remember when you get worried about this new little one. 

The bike ride looks so fun! And that line is super dark! YAY! When's your doctor's appointment?

I think DH is going to stick to our busy plan. . but he sounded very hesitant about it when I talked to him at lunch. He just feels bad because he knows his Mom really really wants to see Camden. (I'm sure she'll live without seeing him this one weekend though!) ;) I'm hoping the issue is taken care of. Now, as long as she doesn't drive by this weekend and see us mowing the lawn! ;)


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## wamommy

Picturing your MIL driving by and seeing you mowing is like a scene from a movie! It makes me laugh! :haha: Sorry, probably not super funny to you :winkwink:

My Doctor appointment isn't until September 5, but I think I will go in earlier for a in-office pregnancy test. My insurance requires "proof" that you're pregnant in the form of a signed note from your Doc. So weird. 

The pic of Max is a little weird there, because he's jumping toward the camera so his head looks HUGE! He has a big head, but not THAT big :haha:


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## SierraJourney

:haha: it is a little funny wamommy--I'm just hoping it doesn't happen! :)

That IS weird that your insurance requires proof! Like the bills from the doctor aren't enough! 

Camden has a big head, so I didn't think anything of the picture. . .haha. . .but I can clearly see that he is jumping towards the camera. What a sweetie!


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## DragonflyWing

Max is getting so big! What a cutie! And way to go to your girls on their training wheels :) Just wait until they don't need them anymore...I remember that being just about my proudest day ever lol

Kellen- good luck with your cyst removal, I'm sorry you've been so stressed :hugs:


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## wamommy

I remember not needing training wheels too, and being SO proud! :haha: I guess it's a pretty important milestone. For now, they both have elbow pads and knee pads and snell approved helmets :dohh: It's a good thing, though, because I've learned my 5-year-old is a daredevil. She likes to get out of control and "flip" the bike. I wish it weren't raining here today so that we could go out. It's a great walk for me, too.

What are everyone's Labor Day plans?


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## SierraJourney

Well, I plan on avoiding the MIL. . .:haha: And other than that, just a quiet night tonight, then probably the farmers market and a maybe the park tomorrow, then a cookout with my family on Sunday, then on Monday we have left it open to do whatever we please! :) I'm looking forward to it! How about you wamommy?


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Your girls look like they are having so much fun. I love biking and can't wait until Teagen is big enough to attach to the bike with me. That is what I have requested for my birthday, lol. Max is a good looking little man! Such a cutie jumping at the camera like that.

Dragon - Your story about L and G having a slap fight is priceless! It is stories like that that make me wish Teagen had a twin. Then I slap myself back into reality and thank the Lord I only have one! 

The cyst removal went perfectly. The doctor even let us look at it after she took it out. Because I'm weird like that... DH was interested too and even watch the whole procedure. Yet he couldn't handle the epidural? Now I have one stitch that gets to be taken out next Friday.

I am trying to take deep breaths throughout the day and not let things overwhelm me. I tend to focus on the big picture instead of small things, but I realized that right now I have to take it a minute at a time. My uncle will be here this afternoon which will help calm my grandmother. I have banished my father from nursing duty and sent him to clear a fence line. Tomorrow is DH's last day at the job he hates so that is a blessing. He is thinking of calling off. Teagen has hit the clingy I only want mommy stage.

Each morning she watches a bit of "Baby Signing Time". One of the signs is for banana. Today she started babbling "nannnanannaaa..." when the banana was shown. Apparently, according DH and my dad, they had her out on the porch a couple nights ago and some birds flew past and she said "brr" several times. Now she is calling for "mommommum" I guess that is my cue that break time is over.


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## Kellen

Plans for the weekend: Pack for DH because the man is hopeless. How did he survive 36 years without me? Love him to pieces, but his version of what he will need for a week away is not mine. Toothbrushes are not optional.


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## wamommy

Sierra, your weekend sounds great! We're not doing anything until Monday, when we'll go see my Mom and some family about an hour north of here. I miss my Mom a lot, so I'm looking forward to it.

Kellen, glad your procedure went well! It's funny that your DH could watch it but not the epidural. :haha: Yay Teagen for starting to use words! How exciting :D I often wonder what amazing things lie behind Mr. Max's eyes, and can't wait to see what he has to say. Right now he babbles a ton, but I'm still not sure if anything is intentional. I thought he was calling me Mmamamamamam, but then today he says "Naynay" every time he sees me :dohh: We'll get there...

The sun just peaked out from behind the clouds, so I might try to get a walk in! I certainly feel better about everything with a little fresh air and nature :)


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## DragonflyWing

That's so funny, wamommy, Lily calls me "naynay" too! She's been saying that non-stop for about a week now, and we couldn't figure out what it means. She's very insistent about it, so we thought it meant she wanted something...but then we noticed that when she's saying it and she sees me, she smiles and does this little coo noise like "there you are!" So we think it's her version of mama for now :)


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## SierraJourney

Wow on the words, guys! Camden only squeals really loudly--no other syllables or anything! Should I be worried?!


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## DragonflyWing

No, I wouldn't worry, Sierra. Gunnar doesn't say all that much, either, except "ning" for his pacifier, which he's been saying since he was 3 months old. He squeals a lot, and whines :haha:, but he doesn't do all that much babbling. 

Lily, on the other hand, never stops! Dadadada, nananana, naynaynay...plus she says "hungry" and "change," which sound more like "undee" and "dane." She almost always tells us when she has a poopy diaper by rubbing her hands together like she's washing them. Sometimes she even does this right before she poops to give us warning! :haha:

We've found that when she says "change" she usually just has pee and wants to go on the changing table (she has always loved being on the changing table), but if she "washes her hands" then she means business.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--that's so cute! Maybe Lilja will be easy to potty train then!!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I wouldn't be worried. Every baby starts using language at their own pace and in their own way. Each of my 3 were totally different. My first was the most talkative, my second barely babbled at all, and made this squeeky coo instead until she was almost 1. Now she never stops talking!! Max is the most expressive, I think, but his "language" has way more grunts and wails than the girls. As long as he's interacting with you, laughing and stuff, I'm sure he's fine! I know there are a ton of stories out there, but my brother didn't barely say a single word until he was THREE... and then has tested above average IQ since then. He still doesn't talk much. When he was about 10 I asked him why he never talked, and he said, "I don't have anything to say. I'd rather listen." He's such a cool guy. :D

Dragon, Lilja is a superstar! I wish Max would give me warning before a poo! :haha: I usually hear what my girls call a "gurgler" and I know it's time for a change :dohh:


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## helena

I wouldn't worry either Sierra, we don't have words either here. My kids have all been slower at talking but learnt to be physically able quick. It's like they are busy developing one thing, so another thing waits. I remember that by 18 months my boys were both running like kids, not toddling at all, but properly running and jumping off things and moving like older children, but talking little. Meanwhile, a friends daughter of the same age knew heaps of words but was only just taking wobbly steps. It's just the way it goes. They can't download all skills at the same time :)

It looks like Kiara is going to be physical too. I came in to the room yesterday and she was making a bridge, balancing on her hands and feet with her bottom in the air. Uh- oh :)

Hope your weekends are all going well. DH is away here so its been a busy time. But nice. Especially since he is back this evening:)
School starts back this week, its a new school for my boys and my eldest is nervous...eek, hope there aren't too many tears!


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## Kellen

Dragon - It is awesome that Lilja is so verbal. Your cuties sound like a ton of fun to be around.

Sierra - I wouldn't worry about Camden's language ability. I didn't start speaking until 13 months. I'm still not terribly verbal with people I don't know, but once I become comfortable I don't stop! I also read somewhere that women have something like 1,000 more words to use each day as compared to men. I wonder if this plays into little girls becoming more verbal faster?

Helena - Kiara is so strong! That is fantastic that she is ready to be starting gymnastics soon!

The weekend is over! Hooray! Teagen has been a terror the past three nights, waking every hour and screaming. On Friday I was taking a nap with Teagen when DH suddenly arrives home and asks: "So, would you like to drive me to urgent care?" A 70lb Golden Retriever sat and bent his thumb backwards in the tub at work. So off we went to urgent care with cranky baby in tow. Four hours later we are home and DH has a bunch of torn ligaments in his hand. The doctor also forbid him from lifting or carrying Teagen for 2 weeks. There goes my nighttime relief... But DH is away this week anyways. Thankfully Teagen settled down perfectly tonight and has been in her crib for over an hour, sound asleep. Here is praying for more than 45 minutes at a time of sleep.


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## helena

We had lots of night wakings too! I can't identify a cause!?


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## wamommy

Night waking here, too! It's been back to newborn-style sleep at night the last few nights. Maybe it's a 7-month growth spurt? 

Helena, how funny about Kiara's "bridge." I can picture it! What a strong girl :) My oldest start Kindergarten tomorrow, and I'm anticipating a lot of tears. Mine, not hers :haha: I hope your boys have a good time!

Kellen, it sounds like you had an eventful weekend! Poor DH. Hopefully Teagen will give you a break and some good sleep.

I saw my Mom, godmother and niece yesterday. We had a picnic at the park, and then had a chance to catch up while the girls played. It was so nice to have some time with my Mom. She hadn't seen Max in over a month, and they change so fast! Odd question, but do your babies act "normal" around other people? Max acts SO interactive and talkative and smiley with us at home, and then the minute we're around friends or family he clams up. He just sort of stares at everyone with a blank look on his face. It's not exactly stranger anxiety, since he doesn't cry or get upset, but he certainly isn't himself... does that make sense?


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## DragonflyWing

We went to SIL's house for Labor Day yesterday, and once again I got to see just how different my babies are!

Gunnar was slightly reserved at first, but quickly reverted to his smiley self. Lily, on the other hand, just stared at everyone, and cried anytime anyone looked at her. 

At one point, my SIL handed Gunnar a little stuffed bear that was COVERED in dog hair. Before I could stop myself, I said "ew!" and tried to grab it away from him. SIL got all offended, and I wasn't in time to stop him anyway. GLOM, right in the mouth. Blurgh.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy-- Camden is like that too! Super talkative at home, but around even extended family, he's super quiet and not really interactive. For Camden, we think it is too much stimulation and noise.. . he's much better at the quietness of our household. :)

Dragon--I would have been the same way about the dog hair. . .yikes!


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## DragonflyWing

It was gross! I was picking dog hairs off him (and out of his mouth *shudder*) for the rest of the afternoon :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

ewww yuck! I freak out when ONE of our cat's hairs gets in Camden's mouth---I can't imagine tons like that!


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## wamommy

:rofl: Babies get a hold of the grossest stuff. One time, when DD was about 10 months old, grandma was holding her on the couch and said, "oh Hunny, what have you got in your mouth?" and she dug it out with her finger... smelled it... and then freaked out. I said, "what is it? what did she have?" and my Mom said, "it was cat litter... a clump of dirty cat litter." Awesome.:dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, eww!!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---how are you feeling? Did you get the official test from the dr yet? When's your appointment again?

I don't know if I mentioned that my sister is expecting? She goes in for her gender ultrasound today---I'm soooooo excited!!


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## wamommy

How exciting for your sister! Do you have a feeling either way about what she's having? I was totally wrong with 2/3 of my babies, so I don't trust my own intuition :dohh: 

I'm feeling alright. Thank you for asking :D I'm totally exhausted, but that might be just from giving up caffeine :haha: I have my Doctor appointment tomorrow, but I don't know what they'll do. I think it's just a "pee in the cup and talk" appointment, where they say, "yep, you're pregnant, now let's schedule more appointments." They will probably test thyroid levels and stuff, but I'm not expecting much. I'm just hoping she's not too upset with me for being pregnant again!!

I'm about to get my DD dressed and out the door for her first day of Kindergarten!!


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## SierraJourney

I'm guessing it'll be a girl for my sister. She has one daughter already. . .but girls run in my family. Camden was such a shock that he was a boy .. .because my parents had three girls, and each of my sisters have girls. . .so I think the odds are towards girl. ;)

Aww---so exciting (and emotional) that your DD is starting kindergarten! Ahhh! Good luck!

Glad you're feeling well so far. Exhaustion was a huge thing for me when I was pregnant. I'm sure your dr. will understand tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see what she says though! Keep us posted!


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## DragonflyWing

Good luck to your DD at her first day of school, wamommy! Happy 7 months to Max, and happy 6 weeks to your bean :)


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## wamommy

Thanks, ladies! We just picked DD up from school and she loved it! In her words, it was "the best day _*ever*_." She's such a star. I knew she'd love it. I, on the other hand, cried as we walked to the car when we dropped her off. Luckily I held it together in front of her as I dropped her in her classroom and chatted with her teacher for a few minutes. When we were walking out I had this overwhelming sadness, and I have no idea why. Hopefully it's mostly hormones, since I'm not much of a crier! Anyhow, DD had a fantastic day and can't wait for tomorrow. We took DD#2 to Chuck E Cheese's and out for donuts because she was so sad that her big sister was leaving. She cried and cried... so we spoiled her. Just for today :winkwink:

I can't believe Max is 7 months! Our little "newborns" are getting so big!! Soon they'll be toddlers... *gasp* 

How is everyone else doing? Any more teeth? I'm still waiting for Max's first to emerge! Helena, how did your DS's first day of school go?


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## DragonflyWing

No more teeth yet, but Gunnar figured out how to use his first one to munch on a baby mum-mum rice cookie thing. It was so cute...crunch crunch crunch.


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## Kellen

Dragon - Congrats to Gunnar on figuring out that tricky cookie. I guess I'm the odd one out and wouldn't have found it all that gross to hand a hair covered toy to a baby. I grew up with dogs and cats and rarely had a non-hair covered outfit. I read somewhere that babies that grow up with pets have fewer allergies and colds later in life. I gleefully allow Teagen to play with and chew on toys that have cat hair on them. Given I try to brush it off, but it isn't that big of a deal to me.

Sierra - Congrats to your sister! That is nice that Camden will have a cousin near his own age to play with. Everyone expected us to have a boy. Both my sisters and all of DH's siblings had boys first. Combing both sides of the family there are 27 grandchildren and only 5 of them are girls.

Wamommy - Congrats do your DD1 on her first day of Kindergarten. I bet it was hard. And good for your for spoiling DD2 for the day. It would be awfully hard to understand why your favorite playmate was missing and had to go to school. Happy 7 months to Max!

I can't believe that Teagen will be 7 months old tomorrow. Today at lunch we had her strapped into her seat. I poured some banana puff things onto her tray for her to play with. Normally she gets maybe one or two in her mouth as she grabs them by the handful and hadn't quite figured out how to get them in. Nope... today she discovered her "pincer" grasp. She has new found dexterity and can pick up a single puff between her thumb and forefinger and pop it in her mouth. I then had to take away a few of the puffs because she was stuffing them in instead of chewing :doh:

Last night she only got me up 3 times... 12, 3 and 5:30. I can deal with that... especially as the last two there was no crying, just restless shuffling. She slept for 13.5 hours last night. I am hoping the same thing happens again tonight. Except if she wants to sleep until 5 without waking up I'd be okay with that.


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## helena

My biggest boy (5) had his second day of school today. He comes home to lunch and today he kept telling me he "is still a bit scared" but he is managing to not cry and go in anyway. He is actually in the third year of school but we just changed him to the local french school so its all new for him. He can ride to this school on his bike though and he loves that. His old school was twenty minutes away, mostly sitting in traffic :( My littlest boy (3) starts the first year of our local school tomorrow. I can't believe it!

Kiara's big news of the week is that she can clap. And is very proud of herself.

Good luck at docs wamommy xx


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## SierraJourney

Well, my sister is having a BOY! We're all very excited (would have been if it was a girl, too!)--now Camden will hopefully have a buddy to play with! 

helena--so cute that Kiara can clap! What a big girl!

Did any of your lo's run temperatures when they were getting their tooth? I'm not sure if Camden is teething or not, but his temp was 100.1F last night. . . odd. . .but dr said it's okay as long as he is acting normal. . .


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## DragonflyWing

Yep, Lily sometimes runs a fever when she has teething pain. Funny that she's been teething on and off for months but hasn't even gotten her first tooth yet! She has seemingly random episodes when she chews on everything, drools a ton, and is inconsolable for about a day, and then she goes back to normal. It's like the tooth keeps gearing up to come through, but then stalls.

We didn't even know that Gunnar's tooth broke through until he bit DH with it! He didn't seem to have any pain or anything with his.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--too funny about Gunnar! 

Camden seems to go in spurts where he drools and chews a lot too. . .but nothing. . .And the temperature keeps coming and going too! This week, he's been soaking his shirts with drool. . .unbelievable.. . but no tooth yet!


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## SierraJourney

How'd it go today wamommy? Have you told your daughters that you are pregnant again?


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## Kellen

Helena - Congrats to Miss K for figuring out how to clap. That is fantastic!

Teagen hasn't run a fever at all with her teeth. We found out about her first one when she bit down on DH's finger at breakfast last month. The one right next to it came in the day or so after. I think they are almost all the way in. She does get really fussy, whining and stops sleeping so great when one is on the way. I think we'll see or feel one in a couple of days.

Wamommy - Yes, we need some results here.


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## DragonflyWing

I threw up this morning out of the blue. The only time that's happened to me was when I was pregnant, but I can't possibly be pregnant right now. I just finished my period last week and I haven't even ovulated yet. So weird! I'm glad this didn't happen before my period, though, otherwise I would be convinced once again that I was knocked up ;)


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## wamommy

Good morning, ladies! 

I wish I had an exciting update. I didn't end up going to the doctor yesterday :( DD#2 is super sick, and I called and rescheduled for tomorrow. Apparently it's "too hard" to watch the kids while I go to the doctor when one is sick. :growlmad: I will be sure to tell you how it goes tomorrow, though! Sierra, I probably won't tell the girls about this baby until 12 or 13 weeks. I really don't want to have to explain the concept of miscarriage to them, just in case. That, and they're so young that I know they won't be able to keep it a secret, so then everyone would know!

Dragon, that's really weird about randomly throwing up! Are you close to ovulation? Could be a hormonal shift making you nauseous? :shrug: BTW, both of my girls loved those Mum Mum things. The only problem is, if the pre-chewed slime from them gets on fabric and then dries, it never comes off! Just a warning :haha:

I'm so tired this morning. It's almost 8 here and Max got everyone up at 7, which isn't too bad for him. The problem is that he was up probably 5 times last night. How long is this sleep regression supposed to last??


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## SierraJourney

Aww. . .sorry you had to reschedule wamommy. :( How frustrating. :(

I think it's wise to wait to tell the girls. They'll probably be so excited when you do tell them though!

Dragon--sorry you got sick. . .that would have me super confused even after a period! Maybe your body is just preparing you for this month's bfp? ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Aw, sorry you had to reschedule your appointment. I hope your DD feels better soon.

I don't think I'm all that close to ovulation...no fertile signs yet. Probably another 5 days or so. When I told DH that I threw up this morning, his eyes got really wide. He remembers that random vomiting was my first pregnancy sign with the twins :haha:. I didn't bother telling him that it's not possible that I'm pregnant now. I figured I'll let him stew in it a bit, maybe he'll get more used to the idea of another baby in the not too distant future.

Thanks for the tip on the Mum-Mums, they do get that goopy stuff everywhere!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm so confused. I felt nauseous all day today, and my boobs have been so sore that I couldn't keep my bra on. They're also swollen, so none of my bras fit. Just for the hell of it, I decided to take my last blue dye test... This looks faintly positive to me. It can't be, though, because I just got done with my period.

I'm starting to worry that I have an ectopic or my hormones are all out of whack for some reason.

Can you see it?
 



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## wamommy

I can totally see it. That's too weird. Maybe you should get some blood work done just to put your mind at ease? It would drive me insane! :wacko: What else could cause hcg in your system and the symptoms you've been having? My vote is for going in to see your Doc, just to make sure all is well :hugs:

I should be in bed. My appointment is at 8am tomorrow. I would have made it later, but they are only open from 8am-12pm on Saturdays :( I'm not exactly sure what to expect, but I think it's just a confirmation and scheduling appointment. I'm still nervous, lol... how old am I? I feel like I've been called into the Principal's office. :dohh:

DD has been so difficult today. I love her so much, and it's hard to see her sick, but the whining and acting out has been really tough today. She JUST fell asleep at 11pm tonight. I've been cleaning up puke and collecting snotty napkins all over the house, and I'm exhausted. Let's just cross fingers that the rest of us (especially Max!) don't get sick.

I hope everyone enjoys their weekend!


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## wamommy

Well, I'm pregnant. :haha: I only got to see the nurse, and they scheduled me to come back on the 12th for an "intake" appointment where I do a ton of paperwork and schedule the rest of my appointments, including a dating scan :D They used a cardboard "wheel" thing to determine my due date as April 30th (based on last menstrual period) which is what good old google told me. Who knows how accurate it is though, since my lmp was 4 days late and everything was apparently screwy from the pill? I guess I'll find out at my scan. They didn't even draw blood, which I thought was odd. I don't really know anything I didn't know before! Ah well... they have their protocol for how each appointment should go.

Max was up all night last night. I feel terrible, because I actually raised my voice at him :( After the millionth wake-up and NO sleep, at 3am I cracked and screamed "seriously?? go to sleep!!" loudly enough to startle him. I feel like such a bad Mom today!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Congrats on being "officially" pregnant. Sorry to hear that your little one isn't feeling too well. Hopefully no one else in your house with come down with the bug.

Dragon - I can certainly see a line on the test, especially in the negative. I think you should go get checked out. This is just kind of weird, especially since you are still having pregnancy symptoms.

Two days ago Teagen decided that sitting unassisted was for babies and she needed to take things a step further... or many, many steps further. She walks, well, cruises really... but still. She was going back and forth from her swing to the cabinets to the floor heater. If we hold her hands she will take off running. :dohh: So apparently no crawling here. She wants to walk everywhere we go. I guess I will be getting her some shoes. Oh, and we have a third bottom tooth that is trying to break through.


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## wamommy

Holy, Walker!! I can't believe it! Yay, Teagen :yipee: :yipee: The world will never be the same for you, Kellen :haha: What a strong girl. Max JUST started sitting unassisted the other day. :dohh:

DD#1 is sick now too, bleh :( We may be calling into school tomorrow and keeping her home of she wakes up still this sick. I really don't want her to miss a day her second week! I just try to think how irritated I'd be if my kids got sick by someone else letting their child go to school sneezing and blowing snot everywhere :dohh: I think I better just get used to this, since starting school = exposure to a ton of germs. 

Sierra, I noticed your thread in Baby Club went viral! :haha: A lot of people who answered don't know your whole back-story, so I wouldn't sweat the negative responses. As long as you're doing what you think is best for Camden, what more can anyone ask for??


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## SierraJourney

Congrats on Teagen walking!! That's amazing! Wamommy--Camden just started sitting unassisted too---and you have to be RIGHT THERE because he'll topple over at any time. :) Maybe it's a boy thing to do things more slowly! :haha:

wamommy--thanks for your comment on my thread in Baby Club. I was a little taken aback at a lot of the responses, so your vote of confidence is much appreciated (and Kellen's in the thread)! At this point, my Mum is only coming to our concert on Friday and MIL is coming for both the Friday and Saturday shows (and happened to book a room at the same hotel we're in :dohh: ). . .so, I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and learn to accept the help from MIL even if it's not the help I would have preferred. . . I also think I need to be a bit open minded as I realize I'm being really harsh on mil due to the things she's done in the past. I also need to be more assertive (not one of my stronger traits, admittedly), and tell her flat out NO on things and let her know that she needs to respect my decisions as the mother. I think once she realizes that it's not okay to usurp my mother role for my own child, then things might go smooter. All in all, I need her help this weekend, as I certainly can't be on stage AND hold Camden. . . so I'm going to try to put some ground rules down about where she sits in the audience with Camden (front row so I can see him--if he fusses, she can move off to the side where I can still see him --as it's outdoors and it should be fine---and absolutely NO food---I'll feed him before I go onstage and he should be good throughout the concert. . .my luck, if I don't set that rule, she'd be giving him hot dogs and fries while I'm on stage! :dohh: ) Hopefully it goes well. . . and hey, maybe it will just be a delightful time and I am worrying for nothing. . . (Or at least I hope!?) But, yes, that thread has gotten a bit out of control. . .lol. . .


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## DragonflyWing

Way to go Teagan on the walking! That's so awesome! :)

I think we have a few months yet before the twins start trying to walk on their own. They do pretty well in the walker, though. Lily can steer around corners and I can't even count the number of times she's run over my foot because I couldn't get out of her way fast enough! :haha: I'm thanking the heavens that we babyproofed a little bit, because yesterday I caught Lily playing with an electrical outlet! I didn't even realize she could reach them from the walker, but thank goodness they have the childproof inserts.

I'm going to the doctor at noon today. When I called and explained my symptoms, they said they need me to come in right away to get an ultrasound. They want to make sure I don't have an ectopic or a cyst or something.


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## helena

Wow teagan! Fast work!!!!


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## SierraJourney

Good luck Dragon! Please keep us posted! That's scary!!!

I haven't even started to baby proof the house. . .but Camden's legs can't reach the floor in the walker, yet, so he's pretty much non-mobile at the moment! :haha:


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## Kellen

Baby proofing is our next step. Thankfully she is pretty confined as to where she can walk. Although I did catch here pulling herself up on the couch yesterday. I was not prepared to have such an early walker. I thought she'd be like me and wait until 13 months to even try.

Dragon - I am glad that you are getting checked out. It is good that you will gain some peace of mind.

Sierra - That thread has exploded. I guess everyone has an opinion. Hopefully your MIL will surprise you in a good way.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--any news?


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## wamommy

Checking in to see how your appt went, Dragon. Hoping all is well! :hugs:

Our house is still child proof from Nica (DD#2) :haha: We never took the bumpers off of the tv stand or the outlet plugs out. We even left the gate at the top of the stairs! I guess once I found out I was pregnant with Max it didn't make much sense to take it all down.

We found a new stroller (well, new to us) that DH really wants, and we're off to pick it up!! I'm thrilled, because I want to transfer Max to a bigger car seat, and my stroller just isn't that functional out of car seat mode. I didn't think we could ever afford it, but a surgeon's wife listed it SUPER cheap on Craigslist and I guess we were the first to answer. :dance:


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## DragonflyWing

Had an ultrasound... no pregnancy, ectopic or otherwise! Nothing noteworthy at all, really, except some fluid in my uterus that looks like old blood, but might be nothing. Also, there are several visible follicles on each ovary, which probably just means I'm close to ovulation.

They did some bloodwork to see if I have any hcg, and I'll get those results later today. The doctor said it's likely I had a chemical pregnancy, but there's nothing really to be done about that.


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## SierraJourney

Wow Dragon. That's so weird. Let us know what the hcg comes back as. If it was just a chemical, it's crazy that you've had so many symptoms. . .


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## wamommy

Wow, Dragon! I'm very curious to see what the HCG results are. At least you had someone take a look and tell you what's going on! Did you get the go-ahead to TTC this month?


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## DragonflyWing

I told her we were ntnp, and she was fine with that.


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## Kellen

Dragon - I am glad that you were able to get checked out. It is still strange that you had so many symptoms. I'll be eagerly awaiting the results of the hCG.

Wamommy - Congrats on the new-to-you stroller. I'm glad that you are getting a nice one that you like.

Teagen has been pulling on her ears all day long. Poor baby is not having a good time with this tooth. I can feel it under her gum next to her right front tooth. I'm thinking of getting an amber teething necklace for her. Has anyone tried these? Do they actually work? She is miserable and it makes me feel awful for her. :(


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## helena

Enjoy the new stroller wamommy!!

and i meant to say yesterday - dont feel bad for shouting at max, tiredness is so tough. You are doing a fab job, 3 kids and one on the way! I bet your house can be noisy at times. Max will hardly have noticed for long Xx


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## SierraJourney

Yeah wamommy... don't feel bad... I've had a couple moments like that too. It gets frustrating.... I know how hard it is after you say something like that, but thankfully babies are soooooo forgiving and will smile at you the very next moment. :flower: I think that situation happens to everyone...

Kellen- sorry Teagen is having such a hard time with this tooth..poor baby! Hopefully it pops through soon!


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## wamommy

Thanks, ladies! I'm glad I'm not the only one who has "snapped" at LO. You'd think I'd be better at not sleeping by now... :haha:

Kellen, I haven't heard of the amber necklace. What is it? I'd say if she's miserable it's worth giving it a try! Is this tooth #3?

The stroller is a dream. It can be used as a single for Max right now, and then convert to a double when baby arrives :D The cats already tried to claim it as their own by sleeping in it, so I had to put it in the pantry overnight :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, I've never used a teething necklace, but I know another twin mom that swears by them for her girls...she said they helped tremendously. Honestly, I'm not sure how wearing an amber necklace could help with teething (unless they chew on it! :haha:), but I say anything is worth a try as long as it's safe :)

DH sure is having fun with this ntnp thing (perhaps more like ttc on my end, hehe). I'm working from home today, and we had a nooner on my lunch break. :) The babies napped at the same time for once!


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## SierraJourney

:rofl: I think men always enjoy the ttc process! 

DH was talking about wanting another one this morning. . .on good days, we want to ttc, on bad days, we definitely want only one child! lol. It'll be interesting to see what ends up happening.. . .

wamommy--that stroller sounds AMAZING!!!


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## DragonflyWing

Lily got her first tooth today! :happydance:

Just like with Gunnar, we found out when she bit DH with it! :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Aww yay Lily!!!


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## wamommy

Yay for teeth! :D Let the chomping begin :haha:


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## Kellen

Hooray Lily! That is exciting. Your poor DH might be twice bitten once shy?


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## DragonflyWing

Haha he keeps telling me he's not going to let them chew on his fingers anymore, but so far that hasn't worked out well for him :haha:


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## wamommy

We're still waiting on teeth here :dohh: Max slept a little better last night, so I'm thinking maybe he was just fighting off his sisters' cold. It could also be the pears he ate a couple of days ago. He LOVED them, so I let him eat a ton! Maybe pears don't agree with him?

I have my intake appointment today, too :D I think it's just a ton of papers to sign and hand-outs to take home. I'm hoping they at least do bloods today. It's not with the ob, it's with their paperwork lady, so I don't have to worry about concerned glances today!! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

No teeth here either wamommy! Maybe it's a boy thing? Camden is taking his time with everything it seems. .. lol. . .I still have only seen him roll from back to front TWICE and that was in July! :haha:

I hope the intake appt goes well! So exciting! You'll have to start posting bump pics for us soon! ;)

I'm getting off of work early today to go buy diapers and wipes to last us through the weekend festival we are performing at. It's hard packing for a baby! I just found out it's supposed to be 48 degree Farhenheit when we perform too. . .so I'm trying to figure out what to pack for clothes for Camden since he'll be outside watching us play! I doubt he'll keep gloves on. .. and socks don't stay on well. . .sleepers would be took cold for diaper changes since we'd have to completely undress him. . .I'm going a bit crazy because we already pack a lot to perform anyways (instruments, equipment, performance clothes, etc). . .and packing a baby for two days outside with baby food and all of his needs met is a bit overwhelming! :wacko:


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## DragonflyWing

Good luck at your intake appointment, wamommy. I'm glad Max is sleeping better, and that he didn't catch the cold! 

Sierra- that does sound difficult to pack for! I hope your performance goes great :)

Gunnar has finally started sleeping through the night again after about a month of waking up at ~3am every day. Now I put them down to sleep at about 9pm, and they wake up at about 7am. Sometimes Gunnar falls asleep as early as 7, and then he wakes up at about 5-6, and sometimes Lily fights sleep until 10, and then she sometimes sleeps until 8.

Anyone else use the swing to put your baby to sleep? Lily almost always falls asleep in my arms with her last bottle, but Gunnar doesn't usually want to be held to fall asleep...he also won't go to sleep if we put him in bed awake. He will only fall asleep in the bouncy seat or in the swing. I'm afraid of what will happen when he gets too big for it!


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## SierraJourney

Camden only naps in the swing. . .won't nap anywhere else. I'm also afraid what happens when he gets too big for it!


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## wamommy

Yes, Sierra, how can someone so little need SO many things for 2 days?? It's really amazing, isn't it? The festival sounds wonderful, though. I hope it's a blast, and that your Mom and MIL work well together to meet all of Camden's needs. I can't wait to hear about it!

Dragon, Max almost always has to be in my arms in order to fall asleep. That, or the car seat. If we drive somewhere he's usually asleep within the first 5 minutes! :haha: We sold our swing after DD#2 (when we thought we were finished having babies :dohh:) and never bought another one. Something tells me Max would love it, though.

My "bump" pictures would be pretty boring so far! I had about 7-8 pounds to lose still from Max's pregnancy, but pretty nasty all day sickness has made me lose about 4 pounds already! I'm hoping this passes. I've never been sick like this with any pregnancy. I usually turn into quite the eater! :haha: I do have the awesome end-of-the-day bloat each evening, though. So sexy :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---sorry you are so sick. :( Maybe it's TWINS! ;)

Blaot is still exciting. . . a proper bump is on it's way!


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> Maybe it's TWINS! ;)

:help::argh:

That would be... terrifying! :haha: There aren't any twins in my family, and I haven't been on any fertility meds, so the chances are SO small. Still, Dragon can probably tell you it DOES happen!!


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## SierraJourney

Glad to hear chances are small! My Aunt and Uncle were twins and my MIL is a twin. . .chances don't look as good for me! :haha:


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## wamommy

Haha! Something to consider when you decide to TTC again! :winkwink:


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, yes it does happen!

There are a few sets of twins in my family. Two of my second cousins, my aunt, and my great great grandmother had twins. All on my dad's side. That sounds like a lot, but it's not much more than the actual average...about 3% of my relatives. 

I didn't even know about all of them before I got pregnant...I don't really know my second cousins that well, and I actually thought they had identical twins (they each had a set of girls). My aunt gave up her twins for adoption when they were born (before I was born), and apparently it was a big family secret. I didn't find out about it until I was in my 20s. I only found out about my great great grandmother at my baby shower! :haha:

Beware, you may have a family history you don't know about!


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## wamommy

Oh, my! How funny that there are twins in your family that you didn't know about. That's the thing about statistics, though... if it's YOU it happens to, your odds are 100%! :haha: 

My appointment went well. It was mostly paperwork, with a bunch of forms to sign and information to give me and questions to ask me. I also had SEVEN vials of blood drawn...:sick: My daughters wanted to watch, so they came back into the room to see me get "poked." They were VERY fascinated, and the nurse did a great job not giving away why we were there. She just told them it was to "make sure your Mama is healthy." :thumbup: I also scheduled my first real appointment along with an ultrasound! They are both on October 9th. I'll be 11 weeks, so there should be a lot to see!

Max has been a bit better today, and I think I know why! DH spotted two identical white spots under his gums in the bottom front. I'd say they'll poke through in the next day or two. They are right there! How weird that they are both coming in together. Is that normal?


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## Kellen

Teagen's bottom two teeth almost came in at the same time. The one on the left poked through a day before the one on the right. For us I guess it was normal? I don't know... I've never had a baby get teeth before. I'm glad to hear that everything went okay at your appointment. Twins... oh wow. Just wow. Don't have too much fun considering that. 

On DH's side of the family every generation has had at least one set of twins... except this one. All of his siblings are finished having children... except us. My MIL is praying fervently that when we TTC again that we have twins. I say no. One is more than enough for me. My grandma keeps asking me if I wish Teagen had had a twin so that I wouldn't have to spend so much time entertaining her. If one is this much work how would I cope with an additional one?

Anyways I have a 15 page paper calling out to me. Only 7 more pages to go!


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## helena

Hi all,

hope you are ok. sorry you havent felt great wamommy. I hated those sicky weeks, it was so bad with Kiara..

have been busy this week settling our bys into school. so far so good. They still mildly object each morning, but no tears. its a lot for them to take in - new school, new friends, new language (for my 3 year old atleast). They are doing good on the whole.

i am flying with Kiara again tomorrow. Only one hour and fifty minutes. but its a small plane and she is so loud when she wants to be...wish me luck!!!

Have a good weekend all xx


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## DragonflyWing

Good luck on the plane, helena!

Ooh, that's exciting about Max's teeth, wamommy. I hope he doesn't have any pain with them. 

I think I'm ovulating today or tomorrow...DH and I have been DTD every single day for almost a week. :haha:


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## wamommy

Kellen, I hope your paper turned out well! I used to love staying up and writing all night. If I got really stuck I would have a glass of wine and suddenly I was SO creative! :haha:

Helena, I hope the plane trip goes well. I'll cross my fingers that Kiara naps for you! I'm also glad school is going well for the boys. :D

Dragonfly, I'm excited for this tww for you! I can't wait 9 or 10 days to start seeing your tests! I'll send some good baby-making vibes your way. :dance:


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## Kellen

Helena - Good luck with the plane! Hopefully Miss K will be charming for everyone. :)

Dragon - Oooh! Good luck. I wish I had your energy. :rofl: I can hardly manage a good night kiss with DH before one of us passes out.

Wamommy - I could have used a glass of wine or a bottle of cider last night. Now I am sitting on the bed letting Teagen bang on my computer while I use DH's to finish up the paper. Only 3 pages to go! If only this paper wasn't worth 40% of my grade I'd just forget it and take a nap. Sorry to hear you are sick.


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen said:


> Dragon - Oooh! Good luck. I wish I had your energy. :rofl: I can hardly manage a good night kiss with DH before one of us passes out.

Surprisingly, I find it very relaxing and it improves my mood dramatically when we DTD often. I always forget this and end up avoiding it because I'm tired. :haha: Then we finally get around to it and I'm like "oh yea, I forgot this is fun!"

Out of the last 12 days, we've DTD 8 times...I think that's more often than any time since we first started dating!


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## DragonflyWing

How's everyone doing today? Hope you all had a good weekend!


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## wamommy

I'm doing alright. Our weekend was pretty mellow, because I'm still SO sick. Now I know what people are talking about when they have morning sickness. I've had 10 minute waves of it in other pregnancies, but nothing like this. I feel super yucky all day and all night, and I can barely eat anything. I force some food down, but have already lost 7 pounds. :( I'm considering asking my OB for some anti nausea meds. I think DH is getting irritated with me. Ugh. Roll on, second tri!

Dragon, what dpo are you now?? I will have to count down with you. Are you excited?

Helena, how was your trip? 

Sierra, how was the music festival?

Kellen, did you get your paper turned in?

Hope all is well with everyone :D


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## DragonflyWing

I'm sorry you feel so sick! I really recommend Zofran (ondansetron) if you ask your doctor for nausea meds. I was on it from about 7 weeks until about 28 weeks with the twins. The only side effect was constipation, but it was WORTH IT because it made my life bearable. I was so sick that I couldn't have functioned without it.

I'm not any dpo yet :( I really thought I was ovulating yesterday or Saturday, but I never got a positive OPK, and no temp rise. DH and I were DTD every day for over a week, but now he's been in a bad mood since yesterday afternoon, so I bet he's not going to want to tonight. I feel like I'll have wasted all that effort if we miss it now :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Aww sorry you are so sick wamommy! Sucking on lifesavers helped me somewhat. . .not completely but it got me through! :flower: 

The music festival was TONS of fun! And for the first time since Camden was born, I think I felt FREE :haha: It felt great to see a little glimpse of the person I used to be (musician, got to get all dressed up with makeup and everything!) insted of just "mommy" (which I love, but it was a nice break). :) For once, I got to wear a pretty outfit without spit up all over it! :rofl:

Only downfall was that whenever we were on stage, Camden SCREAMED and cried. The grandmothers both had him and he cried for BOTH of them. . .the entire time. Almost 2 hours straight. The seperation anxiety is soooo out of control. I'm not sure what to do. NO ONE can hold him except DH and I without him crying. . .and he even cries with DH if I am near. 

As far as the MIL vs my mom debate. . . they both did a good job. . .although MIL gets overwhelmed easily. She'll tell me that "everything went just fine!", then tell DH that Camden is "SO LOUD". She left immediately after she gave him back to us. . .instead of enjoying the festival. I just think he's too much for her. . .and that just worries me when she watches him. BUT, it did help that my mom helped her on one of the days (my mom was only there one day), and my mom said that she thinks MIL does a good job and I should lay off a bit :haha: . .. I still have my reservations, but it helps to be chastised by mom a bit. ;) 

Any help with the seperation anxiety? It's getting soooo hard. We even tried for a babysitter last week and it wouldn't work because he screamed the entire time. :(


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## DragonflyWing

I'm glad the festival was fun, Sierra! Sorry to hear Camden had such a hard time being away from you. Unfortunately, I don't have much advice, because Lily is going through this too! She seems to cry anytime anyone looks at her unless it's me, DH, or my sister. On the other hand, Gunnar is happy to smile and laugh at anyone...maybe we should ask him his secret! :haha:

Funny story...on Saturday, we took the babies to the park. It was a gorgeous day, sunny and mild, just perfect. The babies played on the swings for a little while, then we went over to check out those little rocking horse things with the big spring...do you know what I'm talking about? So I put Lily on one of them, but she kept sliding backward, so I figured I could sit behind her to help her stay on. '

BAD IDEA! Apparently these things aren't made for adults, because as soon as I put my weight on it, the spring flexed all the way backward and dumped us on the ground! The rocker had a hard plastic tail on the back, so there I am on my back with my legs in the air, and this rocker thing stuck under me, and the spring is bent all the way down, so I was afraid to try to roll off of it, because it would fly back up and possibly injure us.

Luckily, when I felt myself start to fall, my instinct was to clutch Lily to my chest, so she didn't even know anything was wrong. She was smiling like it was part of the game lol. I had no idea what to do, I was like "help!" :rofl:

My sister took the baby, and DH helped me up, and now I have a bruise the size of a baseball on my tailbone and a funny story to tell.


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## wamommy

LOL :rofl: My DH did that with one of those things at the park a couple of years ago. Luckily he wasn't holding the baby, because he went over forward!! :haha: I'm sorry about your bruise, but it's almost worth the funny story (and the mental image for us!)

Sierra, I'm happy the festival went well :D It sounds like both your mom and mil did the best they could and gave you some time to reconnect to the "old you." I know it's hard to hear Camden scream, but it's SO important to remind yourself that you are still YOU, and not just Mom. Don't get me wrong, being Mommy is the very best role I could ever ask for, but it's ok (and even good) to wear many different hats. I think that makes you a BETTER Mom, because you're a happy, well-rounded person.

As for separation anxiety, I don't know what to tell ya. Max isn't really wary of strangers, but he's been so incredibly fussy lately that I don't know what's going on. He fusses with DH if I'm in the room, and he fusses with me if I'm not doing whatever it is that he needs _right this second_. I think it's still the teeth coming in, since they haven't quite emerged yet. As far as strangers, I think only about 5 people have ever held Max besides us, and out of those 5 he only cried for one of them. He's great with my Mom. DD#1 had it terribly, though. I remember feeling like, "really? I can't hand her off for two seconds to pee? Sheesh..." Eventually it passed, though. Hang in there :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Ah I am so mad!! :growlmad:

Last night, DH had to go to a meeting at 7pm. He usually gets home at about 9:30-10pm. After the kids were in bed, I fell asleep on the couch and didn't wake up until 12:45, and he still wasn't home. I started getting worried and called his cell, but he didn't answer. I was up until 2am pacing around the house anxiously, trying to call him every 10 minutes. 

Finally I fell into a fitful sleep until 6, and I got up to find him asleep on the couch. I woke him up, and he said the meeting ran late until midnight, and then he stayed after to work on some project. He said his phone never rang, and he didn't call me because he thought I would be asleep. No, I was sitting in bed crying because I thought you were dead, dummy! I was trying to figure out what I was going to do in the morning if he still wasn't home. Call the police? Call his family? Call around to all the hospitals? I was a wreck.

He tells me I'm being overly dramatic for getting so worried. I asked him to call me in the future if he's going to be late. He said "I didn't know I was going to be late!" 

WHEN YOUR MEETING ENDED AT MIDNIGHT INSTEAD OF 9, AND THEN YOU DECIDED TO STAY EVEN LATER, THAT WAS YOUR @#$%& CUE THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE LATE!!!!

Ugh!!! :wacko:


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## Kellen

Dragon - Men are obtuse sometimes. My DH did that to me once when I was pregnant. The epic tears cured him of that... it didn't help that he was riding a motorcycle in Atlanta rush hour traffic and there had been a report on the traffic radio about a motorcycle who was killed. That wasn't very considerate of him. I go through the same thought process as well so you are not alone.

But the image of you tipping over backwards with Lily is priceless! I think I'll learn from your funny and not do that with Teagen. However, I learned that you can stop a plastic baby swing with your head... It hurts and it will leave a lump. In my defense I was "eating" Teagen's toes and making her giggle.

Sierra - I am so glad that you were able to reconnect with yourself. It is important to still be YOU while also being a mommy. For me my school helps me do this. Teagen doesn't understand about economic efficiency so it is nice to converse with real adults.

Wamommy - Your morning sickness sounds absolutely horrible. I hope your doctor is able to give you something for the nausea. Maybe it is twins since it is so bad?

About 10 minutes after Teagen got me up this morning I got a text from a mommy that we had donated milk to asking us if we wanted to join a mommy/baby group that she is trying to start. I am really looking forward to connecting with some local moms. I think Teagen will have a great time with other babies. She loves to follow big kids around so it will be interesting to see how she reacts to the other little ones.

Yes, I finished my paper. It was due at 3pm (instead of 4pm like it had been for the past 3 years!). I managed to turn it in exactly at 3. It was close and not really polished, but better to turn it in.

I love being with my DH, but I am looking forward to being home. He said coming with him would be like a vacation for me. Instead it is more work because I don't have a built in support system here like I do at home. If Teagen is fussy there is just me to distract her instead of my mom, dad or grandma. It has been good to be with him, but I don't think he knows how much more work it has been. That being said we did go to the Oregon Zoo on Saturday and it was awesome! We took Teagen into the Lorakeet exhibit and she LOVED it. She is all about birds and getting to see the colorful ones up close and personal was thrilling for her.


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, I would be livid! I agree with Kellen. Men are obtuse sometimes. They act like we're weird for getting upset about things like this. Umm... we'd be crazy not to! I take it you didn't dtd then? :haha: Maybe tonight, since OV has got to be close, right??

Kellen, I'm glad you got your paper turned in. Phew :D I also know what you mean about missing your own home. Even the most fun vacation or family time sometimes makes me exhausted, and I miss my own bed and my own routine. Add a baby in there, and double that. It's great that you had some time with DH, though :) I love Portland, and have been meaning to take a trip there for a couple of years. It's only 2.5 hours from my house! We actually drove down when I was pregnant with DD to buy our stroller and car seat, to avoid sales tax. :haha:

I'm about to call the Doctor to find out how my test results came back. They always say, "we'll let your Doctor know you called and have a nurse get back to you," and then it's like 6 hours before I hear anything. They did an HCG 48 hour test, because of my history of miscarriages, and also a thyroid test. I'm pretty sure I passed the street drugs test with flying colors, though. :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, no we didn't dtd last night...maybe tonight, but my temp went up this morning, so I'm pretty sure I O'ed yesterday. Not having any fertile signs today. If yesterday was the day, not sure of our chances. We didn't bd the day of or the day before, but we did two and three days before, so maybe.

Good luck with your test results!


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## wamommy

Doesn't the egg live for 12-24 hours after ovulation? It could still happen! :D

I called on the results and got the response I expected. I am now waiting by the phone. :dohh:

As for your remark about twins, Kellen, that is SO not funny. :winkwink: While dragon can probably attest to twins being awesome, I really don't think I could handle babies #4 and #5 together with the other 3! One baby in there is still sinking in... :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Yes twins are awesome. Also, difficult.

:D

I wouldn't trade it for anything, but if they were # 4 and 5 rather than 1 and 2, I'd probably have a coronary!


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## wamommy

I finally got a call back! 

Thyroid (specifically TSH) was 3.87 Normal range is .24-2.99... but I don't like it. They want to leave my dosage where it is, but I think I'll call tomorrow and ask them to raise it. Hypothyroidism in pregnancy can cause all SORTS of problems. High TSH=low actual thyroid in your blood, so I want my numbers a bit lower. I'll call tomorrow and figure it all out. Ugh... 

On a better note, HCG on Thursday (at 7w1d) was 109,000 and then on Saturday (7w3d) was 120,000. From what I just googled, however accurate it is :dohh:, my levels at 7-8 weeks should be between 7,650-229,000. Quite the range!! Luckily I'm smack dab in the middle. I'd say that rules out twins, but also rules out a failing pregnancy. I still don't think I'll believe it until I see the little thing dancing around in there on October 9th!

In other news, we bought a van! Our old one is just too small now, and with another baby we need a full size van. It's not my favorite van in the world, but it's big and safe, so I love it for now :D


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## helena

Hi ll,
It's been a busy weekend back in England. Kiara was Angel at my parents and on the flights :) the only BIG issues have is sleep regression..she keeps waking at any time of night for hour long stretches. Maybe once or twice a night. Urgh. 
She is happy waking, think she thinks its time to play. Am getting tired! 
I read about the 8 month sleep regression, am hoping it is that early and it will soon be over!....

Oh, crying baby, will write more soon, it was great reading ll your updates!...x


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## DragonflyWing

helena, I'm so glad Kiara did so well on your trip!! Sorry to hear about the sleep regression, I'm sure it will pass soon.

wamommy, those are great hcg numbers! I hope they get your thyroid levels back to normal. Congrats on the new van :D

The twins are 9 months old today! :happydance: This morning while I was pumping, Lily woke up and was playing quietly and singing to herself for a while. When she got sick of waiting, she went through every word she knows to try to get our attention. 

Dadadadada....mum mum mum...hungry...change...UP!!

It was so cute :D


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## helena

Wow great words!!! None here. Clever babies :)


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## wamommy

Happy 9 months, Dragon twins!! Well done with the words, too. :D That's amazing! Max _may_ have said Mama in context the last few days, but I'm not completely convinced. The only thing he says for sure is when I am playing with him I say "Yaaaaaaay" in a very high pitched and sing-songy way. He copies the sounds right after I say it and says "aaaaaaaay" in the same tone. It's the cutest thing ever.

Helena, I'm glad the trip went well and Kiara was such a star. I'm sorry to hear about the sleep regression, though. :( I didn't know there was an 8 month regression. Yipes! Max is already such a crummy sleeper. I hope Kiara gets back to her normal routine soon. :flower:


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## Kellen

Happy 9 Months to the Dragon Twins! I can't believe that they are almost a year old. Lily sounds adorable with her words. Such a smart girl for knowing that you can't resist hearing her expansive vocabulary.

And good job Kiara for being such a good girl on the plane. I hope that the sleep situation works itself out soon. Random night wakings aren't too much fun for anyone. Hopefully she is just working on a skill and will master it soon so you can continue to sleep!

Wamommy - I am glad to hear that all your levels are normal. And no, I wouldn't purposefully wish twins on anyone... especially someone with an infant and two older kids. One extra one will be more than enough. Only 20 more days until you get to see your hopping little bean.

Yesterday if I put Teagen on her tummy on the floor she would shout with anger. Today if I put her on her tummy on the floor she crawls. :shrug: That was fast... she went from not caring about crawling to suddenly lunging across the floor to getting on her hands and knees and going two or three "steps." She now has a bruise on her head from where she crashed into the sink because she was so excited. I feel like a bad mommy. But very proud of her. And she is getting a hang of the pincer grip and easily feeds herself "Happy Puffs." So far banana is the favorite. Not a fan of the sweet potato and kind of meh about the strawberry.


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## wamommy

Crawling? Yikes! Good job, Teagen! Max still has no interest. He gets on his stomach, is mildly amused for a minute or two, and then yells to be picked up or moved. He "swims" on the ground, but still hasn't lifted up his big belly. :haha:

Max loves those puffed things too. We buy a kind that's shaped like little hearts and he is finally getting the hang of picking them up. H eLOVES the vanilla ones, followed closely by "veggie dip" flavor. The problem is, he swallows them whole! :dohh: We tried the rice cracker thingies, but he kept snapping off too big of a piece and then gagging/choking on them. I think we're a month out for those.

I'm off to go garage saling for size 12 month clothes! All it takes is one good "score" sale to outfit Max for a whole season for less than $20. The season is running out, so wish us luck today!


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## helena

Good luck! Funnily enough I went to a second hand sale (vide grenier they call it here, translates as "empty your loft") and got Kiara some winter bits today. Some gorgeous cardigans and jumpers. Now need trousers or winter dresses. :)

We are still nearly crawling but not quite. Kiara is on hands and knees, rocking as if revving up for a big crawl, or waving a hand around, but she keeps trying to stand her legs up, and with her hands on the ground I think she gets confused sbout the awkward position and gives up! She is so close though. Kind of excited bout her moving but terrified too..life gets busy then...stairs...reminding kids to shut baby gates...aaaaargh!
Well done Taegan, so strong :) clever girl! Don't feel bad about the bruise, there will be many more to come I bet :)


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## SierraJourney

Camden isn't near crawling yet, either. He moves his arms and legs, but can't get on his knees yet. .. nor can he lift his belly off of the floor. For now, he is content to "swim" in circles on the floor. . . :) And still no teeth!

DH is battling a cold right now, and I'm desperately wiping down everything in the house multiple times a day trying to keep Camden and I from getting it. Wish me luck! ;)


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## SierraJourney

Any luck at the garage sales, wamommy? I love finding good bargains on baby clothes!


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## helena

Pretty sure Kiara's clingy ness is a mix of getting too used to mummy running to her in the night and cuddling her (after all mummy is the best person in the world according to K) and her top teeth coming in. She was v teary last night and even mummy cuddles wouldn't always help. Then while eating today she just started crying for no reason :(
Tried her on some new foods lately. She loves egg yolk, and she loes cheese. Both a bit early maybe, but in small amounts. She also ate chunks of tomatoes and cucumber and plums direct from our garden which made me feel all warm and smug :)
DS has 5 year check p today, he is big, 90%tile for weight and over 95%tile for height!
Any luck at the sales wamommy?


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## wamommy

I didn't find anything at the sales. :( It's ok, though. I'll probably just buy a 12-month lot off of Craigslist or ebay. Anything is cheaper than buying things new at the store! I buy onesies new, though, because most used ones at this age are pretty stained... :haha:

Good luck keeping Camden well, Sierra! That's so tough. It seems that no matter how diligent you are, if they're going to get it, they'll get it. It's still worth doing, though, because a sick baby is so tough.

Helena, I'm sorry to hear Kiara is having a tough time. :( Max is going through this too. I was actually surprised when he let my Mom hold him for a good hour yesterday. He wouldn't let my godmother or anyone else hold him, though. :dohh: 

Very cool about the garden, Helena! I wish we had one. I've thought about doing that, and even picked out the perfect place in our yard, but as with so many projects I just never got around to it. Maybe this spring!

It was my Mom's 60th birthday yesterday and she had a wonderful get together with close family. It was really fun, but a little tough not to blurt out that I'm pregnant! We'll wait until 12 weeks, or at least until after the ultrasound. They made vegetarian chili and while it would probably have been delicious, I had a really hard time politely eating a whole bowl so they wouldn't suspect anything! :sick:


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## SierraJourney

Wow on the new foods helena! We're still diong purees here. . .Hoping to venture into soft veggies soon. . . 

wamommy--sorry to hear you didn't score at the sales! We have a local facebook group of moms here that always post clothes to sell. . .so I usually post saying that I need a certain size and there is usually always someone who is willing to sell that size. Maybe they have something like that in your area? Good job eating the chili through the nausea! That's so hard! I can't wait until you can tell them! When is your ultrasound again?


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## helena

I remember when my brother had announced the pregnancy with his fourth baby. My mum just said "guess what.." To which I replied "they're not pregnant again!?.." Hehe. They have 4 girls. Crazy house.

Yes I am very happy with a kiara and her eating. As long as the pieces are small enough for her to not choke on I am trying her on almost anything, if its too difficult she can just spit it out. She much prefers peices of food to purée though, at least with savouries. at lunch she ignored my spoon waving in front of her face and got stuck into cheese and tomato pieces instead. Maybe she is telling me to go BLW!? I do help her get the, into her mouth if she finds it tricky sometimes - slippery bts of fruit are tricky. Maybe BLW wouldn't do this? I don't know...am just kind of going with whatever feels right, blindly slightly but she seems ok with it :)
she still loves baby porridge and any fruit or desert off a spoon. Seems its just savory pieces she prefers. Or banana. She will only eat this is pieces, not purée.. Funny little lady.

Tat Facebook group sounds great Sierra. I am in a similar one here that has things to give away. A thinking of getting rid of my baby stuff there. If only I could post you boy clothes wamommy!!


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## SierraJourney

How big of pieces do you usually give her? I'm kind of scared to start giving pieces of food to Camden. :blush: I was going to try to start with cooked green beans. .. Do I cut them in half or way smaller than that?


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## helena

Guess the pieces i staretd on are the size of a thumb nail maybe or a stamp. 
I imagine her throat size and assume something that big wont block it...bit of a graphic way of coming up with it maybe!?
But if she can swallow it whole if needs be then i assume it won't do any harm. The biggest issue we ever have is food getting stuck in the roof of her mouth, it is really deep up there and she hasn't the tongue control to hook things out yet. I often have to scoop bread out for her. Toasted bread is best, doesn't get stuck the same I found.
Though i do give her bigger bits now, whole baby biscuits, a slice of toast cut into three, or a finger of banana, but I am sure she is chewing and moving food around well.


Sometimes she does cough if a bit of the food goes to the back too early, but coughing is ok - it means she is breathing. They aren't choking unless they can't breathe, if that makes sense. In the same sense that if someone has something stuck and is coughing, we should never pat them on the back, as it may lodge the lump - the fact they are coughing is good, they can move it themselves. I remember that from a first aid course once.
My first son once nearly choked on one of those baby rice cakes. I held him upside down and it came out. Have never given any of my three those rice cakes again, they scare me now!

Broccoli florets are a big hit, try those first maybe? Cooked so the flowery bits can be sucked off. And the green face and fist of broccoli makes for a cute photo :thumbup:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks helena! I appreciate the tips! I'll let you know how it goes! I'm so paranoid of the choking. . . I hope it goes better than I have envisioned in my mind. . . :dohh:


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## wamommy

It's ok, Sierra, this is #3 and I'm still panicky about choking. I give Max little rice puffs and tiny bits of food, but I've found I make them too small and then he can't pick them up! :blush: I like the ideas Helena gave, and I think I'll try some of them. What's funny is, Max won't eat pureed banana either, he much prefers if I scoop banana out of the peel with a spoon and feed it to him. Maybe it has more texture? I think I'll try the broccoli tonight!

My ultrasound isn't until October 9th. I think that's only a little over 2 weeks away! I can't believe it. I'm expecting my family to try to be supportive, but I know I'll read concern and a little annoyance on all of their faces. 

Speaking of that, a woman in Costco really hurt my feelings today. We were sitting down to eat a piece of pizza after shopping and DD#2 (who is *3*) was excitedly running toward me and ran in front of someone's cart. They had to stop short and the man just smiled. The woman being him, however, said in a very mean way with her face scrunched up, "I guess it's time to stop having 'em, huh?" and rolled her eyes. I wanted so badly to say something in return, but bit my tongue. What a bitter lady!


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## SierraJourney

Wow wamommy- that's horrible! What a rude lady! I always smile at little kids when they do that sort ofthing... they're just being kids! Argh... don't let her get you down.. that's just so awful!

Excited for your ultrasound- you'd better post pictures! :)


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## wamommy

I will post pics for sure! :) 

I'm trying not to let that mean lady get me down, but it was so shockingly rude that I can't stop thinking about it. I just keep telling myself I should feel sorry for her, because she's obviously a very unhappy person. I always smile when kids do that too. In fact, one thing that had always kept me going is the knowing and warm smiles of other mothers (especially older ones) who look at me struggling with a screaming toddler or a diaper explosion in the grocery store. Some stop me and say things like, "this will pass. Enjoy it while it lasts, as hard as that seems right now. You're doing a great job." I won't let this lady ruin it for all of the amazing and supportive strangers I've met!

Max is finally napping. I'm off to pick up the disaster area that is my kids' playroom!


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## Kellen

Sierra, we have found that mesh bags work really well for Teagen when my parents and grandmother are around. They are paranoid about her choking when I give her whole pieces of food. Thankfully they are getting better and I am adding to Teagen's diet. My only problem is I have a terrible phobia about being sticky. As in it can cause me to go into a panic attack. Thankfully I've been able to control it and typically am able to run Teagen a bath and plop her in it immediately after a messy food has been consumed.

For breakfast Teagen typically eats some applesauce and a piece of toast, very lightly toasted. Or if we have fresh fruit (aka the millions of cantaloupe from the garden) I will leave some long spears that she can hold onto and she'll eat that. She is also fond of raw zucchini, cucumbers, avocados, baked/BBQ/seared chicken, pickles (only problem is the skin gets stuck), bananas and her puff snacks. It is going to be pear season here soon so I am looking forward to letting her have some pears. Within the next couple of weeks I think she'll have mastered her pincer grasp and we'll start playing with really small foods like peas.

Like Helena said the coughing/gagging is good. When she eats chicken she tends to get WAY too much in her mouth, but her tongue will push out what she can't handle. It is somewhat gruesome to watch, but it works!


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## helena

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_AACAE9CD.jpg. 8 months old today! It seems an age ago that I drove myself (bonkers!,) to hospital.

What a rude woman wamommy!! I think people must genuinely forget what kids are like. Or maybe she never had any. Silly woman.


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## DragonflyWing

What a cutie! Happy 8 months Kiara! :D

BFN today, but I'm only ~8dpo hehe


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## wamommy

Helena, how cute and grown up Kiara looks! She always looks so pleased. :) I love that high chair, by the way. It looks so easy to clean!

Dragon, I wouldn't worry about a bfn at 8dpo. Keep us posted, though! I'm excited to see what happens this month! :dance:


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## helena

That's why I love it wamommy. Is the cheapest around (ikea) and so practical and easy to clean :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! I've thought about trying those mesh bags.. . now need to go pick some up!

Beautiful picture helena! What a doll! 

Dragon--8dpo is early yet. .. keep testing and keeping us updated--fingers crossed for you!!! So exciting!


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## SierraJourney

It's been a while since I uploaded a picture of Camden, so here's one of him playing. :)
 



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## wamommy

Look how cute he is, Sierra! It has been a while, and he's grown so much! I can't believe how big and gorgeous all of our Valentines babies are becoming. :D


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## DragonflyWing

Oh how cute, he looks so happy!


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## helena

He looks so grown up! A real little boy. X


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## DragonflyWing

AF got me at only 8dpo :(


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## SierraJourney

Oh no Dragon! :( I'm sorry! That's strange that it came so early!


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## DragonflyWing

I know! O was quite late (CD21), and then my LP was super short. Everything I'm reading says this is common when breastfeeding due to high prolactin levels. I'll have to see what I can do to increase my LP.


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## wamommy

That's really weird! I'm so sorry, Dragon :( Are there ways to get your cycle back to being regular while still breastfeeding?


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## DragonflyWing

I'm going to try taking vitamin b6 to help lengthen my LP. Otherwise, it may just be a matter of waiting for my cycle to go back to normal on it's own.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, that just means you need to dtd every day so you know you're covered! ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Haha! DH would love that method. I'm sitting here with the heating pad due to cramps, and he's still trying to get me to agree to a nooner. :haha:


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## wamommy

LOL, men. DH knows better than to even suggest dtd to me right now! :haha:

I've actually read that dtd every other day is the most effective way for irregular cycles. Maybe that's a good compromise?


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## DragonflyWing

That is a good compromise, and probably what we'll do. Last month, we dtd 14 times...and if you take out AF days, that's even more than every other day! Also, more than we've done it any other month since we started dating!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, how do you find the energy?! I'm so pooped by the end of the day that we're lucky if we dtd twice a month!


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## DragonflyWing

We have a lot of quickies, so it doesn't take very long...and I usually sleep better afterward!


I have 30 OPKs and 20 hpts coming in the mail :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Even quickies seem to be a lot of work sometimes for me. . .lol. . .but I think it's good for your marriage! Good for you guys!

Glad to see you ordered some more! :haha: This is so exciting that you're trying now! 

So, I had a rough evening last night. . . DH had this dinner meeting thing for business where spouses were invited to attend. So, I told him I would go (and I really wanted to go), so we decided to leave Camden with my older sister for about 2.5 hours while we were away. Well, you know how Camden is----cries with anyone except Mommy and Daddy. . . Well, my sister is super opinionated and thinks her way of parenting is the best (she has a 4 year old, kept her on a schedule since she was a newborn and initiated CIO before she was even a month old). She's not much of a cuddler for babies and every time (which isn't a lot, admittedly), I've had her watch Camden, when I've come home, he's just sitting in a bouncer or something crying. :( She's watching him, of course, but just doesn't seem as compassionate to his crying. She took him on a walk for almost the entire time she watched him last night. .. Apparently he didn't cry as much in his stroller, which is fine, and he fell asleep in the stroller for a bit. However, what bothers me is what she SAYS---when I came home and picked Camden up and he stopped crying, she looks at him and goes "You know exactly what you are doing--you're doing it on purpose" and she tells me, "You know this is a problem, right? You hold him way too much." And I tell her that I work all day long, so I can't hold him every second and she doesn't believe me. She tells me, "It's okay if he cries the entire time you are gone---it's good for him" and she's constantly trying to get me to use the CIO method for bedtime, but we've always done GREAT with bedtime and I feel like our method is working so far (I nurse him to sleep, but lately he has learned to put himself to sleep for naps!) She judges me for working at home with him. . .she always is very career-oriented and thinks that I can't be serious at my work when I'm watching him too. . .so she thinks I'm just sitting on my arse at home and doing nothing---when I work SO hard and am keeping up with the same workload PLUS MORE than I was before I had Camden! She says he's not going to have a good immune system because he's not exposed to other kids enough to get more colds/flus, etc. I just feel very judged from her and I feel that she's very unsympathetic when Camden cries because she thinks he's doing it because he's spoiled. I know he cries and there isn't much babysitters can do, but when other people watch him they at least cuddle and bounce him. . . but she just puts him down and lets him cry because "he's going to cry anyways". . . :( I told DH last night that I can't have her watch him anymore. . .it just tears me apart and I feel like she's criticizing all of the hard parenting work I've done. She just thinks her parenting was the best way to do it and constantly criticizes me and my younger sister for how we raise our children. I really wish it wasn't like that because she lives 10 minutes down the road. . . where other family members are 40 minutes away. . .but I just don't think I can have her watching Camden anymore. . at least while he's a baby. . . :( Just had to vent that out. . . . Thanks for listening ladies! :flower:


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## wamommy

Oh Sierra, that is so tough. :hugs: Having a baby is tough enough without feeling like you're being accused of doing it "wrong." I think you're doing a wonderful job, and Camden is lucky that you are so affectionate and loving with him. I can't imagine how tough it is to work from home AND care for him. My older sister made a comment like this a couple of months ago that really hurt me. She said, "the whole family is disappointed that you gave up your career and school. We just don't understand. All of us are so success driven. Did that gene miss you? How can you sit at home all day doing nothing and feel satisfied?" Oh, how I cried.

Honestly, the way you choose to raise YOUR babies is a very personal choice, and no one else can tell you the best way to do it. Follow your heart and listen to your instincts, and (as hard as it is to do) brush off the negative comments. Most judgmental comments come from the other person's fear that THEY are doing something wrong, not you. 

Also, I found this article posted somewhere on here a while ago and I loved it and saved it. It's geared mostly to SAHMs, but I think it applies to you too. I especially love the last 2 paragraphs. Hang in there, Sierra!
https://mamaseeds.com/blog/baby-sleep-training/new-mamas-get-nothing-done-and-other-untruths/


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## Kellen

Wamommy - That is a wonderful post. It is helpful to remember that these baby days of them needing us are fast and fleeting. Before we know it they will all be independent toddlers who will give us passing hugs, and maybe an obligatory snuggle now and again. I think it is rotten of anyone to criticize how much time a mother spends with her child. We all have different ideas and the babies all have different needs.

Sierra - Camden is absolutely gorgeous. You should be proud of your little man. I would be upset too if someone said that I spent too much time holding Teagen. She isn't super fussy, but she is high needs. If she isn't sleeping she is exploring and wants to know how everything works (hoping for an engineer here!)

Helena - Happy Belated 8 Months to Kiara. She is adorable. We desperately need a high chair and I am now thinking about looking at Ikea and seeing if I can't find one similar to yours. It looks so nice and functional.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my gosh wamommy--that article is wonderful! What a weight it seems to lift off of your shoulders when you read it! THANK YOU! Thanks to you and Kellen for the sweet kind words. I'm trying not to think of what my sister said. . .because it makes me sad when I do. . . .

wamommy, I can't believe your older sister said that to you---maybe it's an older sibling trait (my sister is older too!)?! I tell you what, though, I envy your position of staying home with your babies. If we could do it financially, I would completely do it---because I think it is the most valuable career ever. I'm thankful I can work from home and take care of Camden, but I really would love to only watch him so I can devote my entire attention to him and him alone. I give a huge APPLAUSE for you for being home with your kiddos. I went for a walk with a friend this morning (took a couple hours off work), and she said to me: "You know, the easiest thing you can do is to put your kids in childcare and head off to work. The harder "job" is when you choose to stay home and raise them every minute of the day." Now, she wasn't knocking people that put their kids in daycare, but saying how hard and rewarding of a job it is to raise kids. I totally agree. 

Thanks for the chin up today ladies. :)


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## helena

Oh you should Kellen, think its only about $20. Here you go, Antilop style. chair and tray sold separately..

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/childrens_ikea/18715/


We have a crawler!! She is wobbly but definately crawling all over. This morning I fully realized she was mobile when I gave her breakfast, then put her on the floor to play while I got my boys ready for school. I turned around and Kiara had wiggled over to be under her high chair to retrieve some toast she and dropped! She was happily sitting and chewing on the toast. Monkey.

She is very happy and had grubby knees for most of the afternoon in the garden - she refuses to stay on the blanket on the grass anymore! :)
Her crawling is wobbly but she has suddenly really got going from tummy to sitting up without effort. I think that by the end of the weekend she will be zooming about and I may lose her!


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## Kellen

Helena - Congrats to your little mobile baby! That is super exciting. Although Teagen can semi-crawl or even cruise she isn't very fast yet and that frustrates her. This weekend has been dedicated to baby proofing the house and trailer. We have socket plugs and all that jazz.

I drove my grandmother up to Portland to help us house sit for my uncle. We were supposed to be there until the 3rd, but his surgery was canceled (this is what happens when you accidentally slice off your heal, fall down 5 steps and break your ribs apparently). My aunt and grandmother get along about as well as oil and water. So last night I packed Teagen and my grandmother into the car at 7:30pm and drove 5 hours home.

DH is still in Portland doing school work. We aren't sure when he is going to be able to make it home. Right now there are major storms hitting the west coast from Seattle to California. We are supposed to get up to 6 inches of rain tonight and could experience flash flooding. The longest DH and I have been away from each other since we got married is 8 days. But when we were dating we went months at a time (Texas to California isn't easy!). I am hoping we will get to go up again on the 13th or the 17th and stay with him for a bit.

In baby news: Teagen has horrible diaper rash! She has also been running a low fever (99.5) and been pulling at her mouth and ears. I think we have another tooth coming in. I also found some affordable cloth diapers that I am going to order and see how they work out. We just had to move into size 4 diapers. I think that will help clear up the rash and make her more comfortable.

I hope everyone is having a wonderful and relaxing weekend.


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## DragonflyWing

Way to go on the crawling! Sorry about Teagan's diaper rash, I hope the cloth diapers help clear it up. Size 4 already?! Gunnar just moved to size 3, and Lily is still in 2s! She is in mostly 6 month clothes, and Gunnar is in 9 months. Is T in 12 months already?

I want to punch DH right in the face right now. Remember a few weeks ago when he was out until 4 in the morning and I couldn't get in touch with him? He did it again! This time, he was out 4 hours after he was supposed to be home, and he had the babies with him. We went to visit his grandpa, and when we left, I was going to run errands, and DH was going home with the kids. However, when I got home 3 hours later, they were still not home. I called his cell, but it was turned off. I was sitting here worrying myself half to death for an hour before they finally got home. Turns out DH stopped at his cousin's house on a whim and hung out there for hours. When I told him I had been worried because I thought he was going straight home when we left his grandpa's, he said "I never said that. You're always making assumptions and then holding me accountable for them." Basically completely invalidating my feelings once again, and then pretended he didn't see the tears streaming down my face. Son of a bitch.


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## Kellen

Dragon, that super sucks! I can't believe that he would completely ignore the fact that you were WORRIED about him and the babies. It wasn't that you were trying to hold him accountable to your assumptions, you were trying to make sure they weren't all sitting in a ditch somewhere or in the hospital. I can completely understand wanting to punch him in the face. Is it possible to bring the subject up tomorrow or the next day when your emotions are not so raw? It sounds like he really needs to understand how deeply this impacts you.


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## wamommy

Dragon, I would be so upset! I don't quite understand how your DH expects you to NOT worry?? In my eyes that would mean you didn't care about them. I agree with Kellen that you should sit down with DH and explain how much this hurts you, and hope that he doesn't get so defensive. I'm sorry you had to go through that worry. :( :hugs:

Well done Kiara with the crawling! What clever girls we have between her and Teagen! Max is still happily stationary. :haha: At least now he can "spin" on his tummy to see what's going on in the room or try to grab a cat. Luckily our house is still pretty much child proof, so there won't be much to do once Max is mobile. My larger concern is the Legos and other small objects the girls leave all over the house!

The west coast storms hit us pretty hard here, Kellen. I like the rain, but this is crazy. Unfortunately there was a large wet spot in our family room on the carpet, and after further investigation it seems to be coming through the wall! We need to find where the rain is entering today. Ugh...

Max has been battling the mother of all colds. He can't breathe through his nose at all, so he can't eat very well, which makes him REALLY cranky. He also can't sleep, which makes ME really cranky. Any tips for a sicky baby to clear their nose? I've tried the saline and bulb syringe, but it just comes right back and Max hates it. :(


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Oooh, an indoor wet spot is no good at all. The storm hit us pretty hard as well. The wind was absolutely horrific yesterday, but we did get to test out Teagen's new winter coat. It was so puffy she just sat there and didn't move. Bad mommy I laughed at her. At least the sun is shining right now. Poor Max! No breathing is no fun. Hopefully it will clear up soon so that you can both get some rest.

Dragon - Teagen is mostly in 12 month clothes, but some of her stuff is 18 months for the length. Right now she is probably around 20lbs, but she is really, really long. The size 3 diapers fit around her middle, but they were giving her nasty diaper rash in the creases by her legs. Once we moved up a size and liberally slathered her in coconut oil it went away almost immediately.

I just sat down at my computer with a bowl of applesauce while throwing a piece of toast in the toaster for Teagen. She was swinging in her swing watching "Baby Signing Time." She looked over and noticed I was eating and demanded that I share. So she ate half my applesauce and is now working on the toast. We made up some meatloaf using quinoa, brown rice, leeks, ketchup, eggs, almond milk and ground beef... Teagen is a meatloaf eating monster. I had to limit how much she had on her tray because she would just keep shoveling it in her mouth and wasn't bothering to chew. It was just soooo tasty!

I am looking forward to Wednesday. The lady that we donated some milk to during the summer has an 11 month old and she invited us over to play for a while. Teagen loves other kids, but doesn't get the opportunity to interact as often as she would like. I think there will be a couple of other babies there as well.


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## DragonflyWing

I am in such a nasty mood today...everything is making me irrationally angry, and I just feel WRONG. Like my clothes don't feel right, my shoes feel too tight, the sun is too bright, etc. I think I need a glass of wine and a good book tonight after the kids are in bed!


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so sorry you're struggling! I wish I could share a bottle of wine with you and commiserate! :winkwink: Hopefully you'll get some time to relax and things will look better tomorrow.

Kellen, the meatloaf you made sounds amazing. I need to experiment more with Max! I'm kind of waiting on his nose to clear, because right now he can't even really drink his bottle. :( Poor guy wheezes and snorts and then gives up and smacks his bottle away, followed by catatonic screaming. 

A playdate with another baby sounds so fun! I don't really know anyone around here with babies around Max's age. We knew one couple really well, and even idolized how they raised their kids, how much they had their stuff together, etc. They have a little boy near Max's age, but we just found out that all SORTS of things are incredibly disturbing about their lives (i.e. drugs, gambling, infidelity, mental illness). I guess it just goes to show that you never really know what goes on behind closed doors.

In other news, there's only a little over a week until my first ultrasound! I don't really know how we're going to do it because I don't have anyone to watch the girls. Can you picture me, DH, my 2 girls and Max all in a tiny ultrasound room? :dohh: I could call around and beg, but I really hate to bother anyone.


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## Kellen

Dragon - I can't even begin to imagine how hectic life is with twins. Then add on the stress of your DH not understanding the basic instinct of worrying. You have a lot on your plate. In solidarity of your stress my mom and I watched Dancing with the Stars and shared a bottle of Cinnamon Hard Cider. :hugs:

Wamommy - So exciting about the ultrasound! You obviously need to move closer so that we can have play dates and I can watch the kiddos when you need some time to breathe. The property next door is for rent :wink: How is your morning sickness? Poor Max sounds absolutely miserable. I commiserate with him. This morning I woke myself up snoring and I don't snore... except when I can't breathe through my nose. Thankfully Teagen hasn't shown any signs of congestion.


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## SierraJourney

So exciting about all of the mobile babies!! Wamommy--I'm with you--Camden has just been spinning in circles on his belly! :haha: I find it adorable, though! Can't wait for the ultrasound!!!

Dragon---I'm so sorry about your DH--I would have been furious!! I hope your wine and book were of much comfort last night! (Sounds delightful to me!)

We finally felt two teeth poking through this morning for Camden! So proud!! So, since these are the first teeth, I'm wondering---how long do they take until they are completely out?


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## wamommy

Oooh, grats on the new teeth, Camden!! :dance: It looks like we're the sole gummy baby over here still!

Kellen, I wish we lived closer, too! I'm honestly getting pretty sick of the traffic and crime up here. We live in a really nice area, but if you try to go anywhere on the freeway, good luck!

Dragon, how are you feeling today? I hope all looks brighter! 

I had DH take a 10 week "bump" picture this morning. It looks quite like a mug shot and I think I look much fatter than in real life. Most of the little "bump" I have is left over Mommy pooch from Max. :haha: Luckily it's getting colder, so I can disguise a little chub with a nice sweater!
 



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## SierraJourney

Wamommy :shock: I can't believe you've had 3 kids and you look the way you do----you're soooo skinny! I'm completely jealous now that your 10 week bump looks way better than my 8 months after baby body! :haha: 

I think I might exercise after work now. . . . at least that's motivation! :rofl:


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## wamommy

That's very sweet, Sierra! I think part of it is luck that I'm so tall. I can carry weight well because it's spread out. :haha: I can also thank morning sickness for dropping the last few pounds of baby weight. I was just looking at pics from 13 weeks with Max, and that seems to be when I explode!

I must say that exercise has been my only time to myself since I had Max. DH doesn't complain too much when I go in the other room and do a workout dvd with the girls. Somehow that's more acceptable than a long bath or reading a book. :shrug:


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## DragonflyWing

They were delightful, thank you! I feel much better today.

Gunnar's first tooth poked through about 6 weeks ago, and it's most of the way in now. They both have their bottom two front teeth, now we're waiting on the top two.

wamommy, you look fabulous! I don't see a bump at all yet, you are svelte!


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## Kellen

Sierra - Congrats to Camden on his teeth! It is so exciting to watch them come in. I think Teagen's are finally all the way up and they came in the first week of August. They are little razors!

Wamommy - You look pretty fantastic for being pregnant with your 4th. DH's are silly. I would think he would be encouraging you to relax so as to allow your body to do all the hard work that goes into making a baby.

Dragon - I am glad to hear that your book and wine helped last night. It sounded like you were having an "Alexander Day" (from the book Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day).

Nothing too exciting here. Tomorrow is our play date. I think AF is on the way because I want CHOCOLATE! I don't even really like chocolate... but right now it is the only thing that sounds good, which typically only happens before AF. Oh the joy.


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## wamommy

Oh my, Max is still soo sick! Does anyone have advice on what to do to help a stuffy nose? I know I should know how to handle this by now, but honestly my girls never got sick when they were this young. I think they were both over a year before they had their first cold! Poor Max can't breathe, won't eat, and barely sleeps. I feel so sorry for him! I bulb syringe his nose 3 times a day, and use a saline spray, but nothing seems to be working! He sounds like a cute little pig sitting here on my lap snorting away. :(


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## SierraJourney

Aww poor Max! wamommy, I have no idea what to do. . . Camden's never been sick yet (knock on wood). . . Maybe a humidifier? Did you try to post in the main board? They might have better advise? Sorry, I wish I knew what to do to help---poor little guy has to be miserable! :(


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## wamommy

A humidifier is a great idea. I asked my Mom, and she says she used to take us into the bathroom and run the hot shower with the door closed, making a steam room. :haha: I think a humidifier sounds easier!! I just googled the common cold in babies, and it can last 10-14 days! :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

10-14 days?! That sounds like the longest two weeks ever! :( If you don't have a humidifier, you could always keep him in the kitchen with you while you boil water on the stove. . .has the same affect. I know whenever I boil my pump parts on the stove, the whole house gets "sticky" from the humidity! :)


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## Kellen

Poor Max. I don't have any advice for baby colds. Teagen thankfully hasn't gotten one yet.

Men are idiots sometimes. So today Teagen had her playdate with the 11 month old, and everything went fine... except for the fact that Teagen whacked herself in the eye with a wooden block. She has a pretty awesome shiner, but the other mom felt horrible. So when we laid down for a nap I took a picture of her black eye and sent it to DH saying: Teagen whacked herself in the eye with a block. She was a champ and didn't even cry, but the shiner is pretty impressive.

Then we Facetimed with my MIL and I explained how Teagen got a black eye. Then I laid down with Teagen for bedtime (after two hours of her whining, fussing, screaming, crying) and finally nursed her into a peaceful slumber when DH texts: I hope you have a good night. Then he calls and accuses me of not telling him when his child got hurt: "There are somethings a parent likes to know..." No shit Sherlock! Then he hung up. So I sent him a text with an explanation and attached the earlier text to it. Then he texts back: We are not having this discussion via text tonight.

Once Teagen is finally asleep I sneek away to call him. He refuses to answer. Then he calls me. Turns out his mother told him that another kid hit Teagen in the face with a block. WTF WOMAN! Thankfully DH's teacher is out for the rest of the week so he is coming home for an extended weekend tomorrow. I seriously want to punch someone in the face... This whole thing is ridiculous.


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## helena

Hi all.
I use a humidifier when Kiara is stuffy. And we get drops of oil that smells good and clears noses. I put it in her bed at night. Karvel make the I think. A bit like Vicks?
Here in France they also have eucalyptus suppositories. They work well but make for horribly pongy diapers...


We have a third tooth! A the top, just poking through. She is clingy and hurts a bit I think though, poor little girl. 

Had my brother to stay for the weekend until Tuesday. All went well until the last day when we had a row about my parenting...Urgh, I am so mad and depressed about it. EH thinks I should be more strict. But I can't tolerate anyone telling me I am wrong in the way he did...my kids, my business. Urgh.


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## DragonflyWing

Poor Max! Sorry he's feeling yucky, I hope he feels better soon.

Kellen- Wow, I wonder why your MIL told him that someone else hit her? I always get so frustrated when misunderstandings like that happen...if only people could be rational all the time!

Yay for Kiara's third tooth! Ugh, I hate it when anyone criticizes my parenting...they really have no right. Sorry you had a fight with your brother!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I think your reaction was appropriate. After all, it was just a black eye. Yes, it's an injury to a baby and worrisome to parents, but in the grand scheme of things it wasn't a large-scale cover up like your DH seems to believe, lol. At least his reaction came from a place of love, however misdirected. Did you ever play that game called "telephone" when you were younger? One person whispers a sentence into another child's ear and it continues down the line. Once the whole class has had a turn the last person says the sentence out loud. It is almost NEVER the same as the sentence was in the beginning. It sounds like your MIL and DH were playing telephone. :haha:

Helena, it's great to hear from you! Congrats on a third tooth. :D I hope it hurries in so that Kiara can get some relief. I'm really sorry to hear about your brother. Attacking your parenting hits a nerve with a sledge hammer, I know. Why do people do that? I'm sure we ALL do things that others could criticize, but we're doing the very best we know how, and criticizing how you raise your kids is mean. I'm really sorry he upset you so much. 

Well, I have Max's cold now too. :dohh: I don't know why I didn't catch it when the girls had it. It's been coming on the last few days, but I've been in denial. Today I'm completely stuffed up, with a sore throat. Not cool! I will try the humidifier with drops tonight. Max seems ever-so-slightly better, so we'll see how it goes!

Random question... what kind of diapers do you use? I have always been a believer in Huggies, but DH really likes Luv's (which I hate). He says they stop the poop explosions out the back... but I don't buy it. I woke up from a much-needed nap today to DH yelling at me about how he hates our diapers and we should only use Luv's. What a random thing to yell at me about. I think he was just looking for some excuse to be a butt and that's all he could come up with.


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## DragonflyWing

We use all kinds of different diapers- pretty much everything EXCEPT Huggies and Pampers because they are too expensive! :haha:

Lately we've been using Pure 'N Gentle (my favorite), Luv's, and Parent's Choice (Walmart brand). Luv's were terrible in size 1, but size 2 seems to work fine for Lily. Gunnar is in size 3 and is using Parent's Choice right now. I really prefer Pure 'N Gentle for size 3, but we ran out and I haven't placed another Amazon order yet. Unfortunately, Gunnar has been blowing out/leaking through his diapers almost every day since we started using the Parent's Choice...but we got a case of them at one of my baby showers, so we have to use them up.

We've also used Up & Up (Target brand), Walgreens brand, and Shopko brand.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---argh! Why would MIL tell DH that?! Hopefully DH calmed down after he got the facts!. .. That's so frustrating. .. 

wamommy--I'm sorry you are sick too now! :( Hopefully it's a short-lived cold!

We use Pampers Sensitive diapers---they are the only ones that don't give Camden a horrible bloody rash (seriously, Huggies and regular Pampers made a rash so bad that it was peeling and bloody. . .poor guy. :( ) I've ordered some Earth's Best natural diapers to try, mainly because I could get free shipping on them on Amazon. :) So, once those come, I'll have to see how they work! :)

PS--we still get the poop explosions out the back. :)


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## wamommy

Haha, it sounds like the poop explosions are unavoidable! From what I've researched, most parents say that it only stops once baby is on mostly solids and the poop changes to a thicker texture. (sorry, gross!) We buy Huggies at Costco, and they're 17 cents a diaper that way. Up and Up beats that slightly at 15 cents a diaper. If I buy them in small quantities at the regular store the price goes up to 24-25 cents a diaper! I think DH was just having a "poor me I had to change another poopy sleeper" moment, and we'll probably stick with Huggies. 

Sierra, Camden's rash sounds so painful!! DD#1 had a rash like that, and we discovered it was from her wipes. Actually, it was from DH wiping too hard, but don't tell him I said that. :haha: Once we switched to no perfume, sensitive skin wipes, we've never had a problem. I'm glad you found a diaper that works!

I just showered, and it's after noon. :dohh: I think today is going to be a lazy day. I have to make lunch, but then I may plop down on the couch with Max and watch cartoons with my 3-year-old.


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## DragonflyWing

17 cents a diaper is pretty good! I try to stay around 15-17 cents...unfortunately, we don't have Costco near us. We have Sam's, but I don't have a membership. I should see how their prices are, maybe we know someone who has a card.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--we switched to sensitive wipes too. . . Camden is just sensitive all around! :)

Did you ladies know when your period was returning? I've been having cramps for over a week now, along with headaches, craving junk food, etc, and keep thinking she's going to show up, but nothing. . . :shrug: I'm getting really annoyed. .. I just want it to show up instead of pestering me with these annoying cramps! :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Mine came back so fast postpartum that I had no break between pp bleeding and AF...so I'm not much help! I have noticed that my PMS symptoms have been worse than they were before I got pregnant, my hormones levels must be a lot different.

OMG guys, I got in trouble in another thread for being rude and the thread was closed! I deserved it, but it was also worth it because I think the person I was talking to was deliberately trolling. Oh well, at least I didn't get banned!


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## wamommy

LOL Dragon! What was it about?? I can't picture you being rude. It must have been a pretty heated thread!

Sierra, before my true AF returned I had 2 months where I'd get massive pms for a week and then have 1 or 2 days of SUPER light spotting... then nothing. Finally, the third month of this, I had a "real" AF which was heavier and more annoying than usual. I only had that one before she went away for another 9 months. :blush: Hopefully she'll start or just go away and leave you alone!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies. . .I'm just tired of cramping! lol

Yes, Dragon--what was it about? I can't see you being rude either!

wamommy---speaking of those 9 months, how are you feeling lately?


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## DragonflyWing

It actually wasn't heated at all! :haha: I corrected someone's spelling in a mean way...normally I would NOT do that, but I noticed that this person had posted essentially the same thing in three different places, with nearly all the words misspelled. However, in each post, they were mispelled in different ways. I don't think anyone could do it that way unintentionally. I should have just reported them, but I was having a hormonal moment, so instead I corrected every spelling mistake I found. I DID, however, apologize in advance for being rude. :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Sounds like they were trying to get attention or something?! Weird. . .


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## Kellen

Helena - I am sorry that your brother was not kind. We are all individuals and all have different paradigms... which include how we raise our kids. Just because I may not agree with how someone parents doesn't mean I have the right to tell them so. If you were causing harm to your children that would be one thing, but you're not. You're a great mom!

Sierra - AF is super unpredictable here. I've had two so far. Right now I am in the same boat as you. I want chocolate (which I'm not a huge fan of), I have acne on my forehead and cramps. The last time I had cramps for two weeks before AF showed up. Then when she finally did I didn't have any cramping. :shrug:

Wamommy - Ugh. Colds are no fun. Hopefully both you and Max will get better soon. As for diapers we used to use Huggies, but Teagen is so tall that the leg openings were too wide, but the crotch was too short. So we switched to sensitive pampers (the diaper rash was because my dad had picked up some "cruisers" and was using them at the big house). But yesterday I received my order of cloth diapers. I am super excited to begin trying them out. I was able to get three covers, 8 inserts and 100 flushable inserts for $45. Only 5 days until you get to see your little jumping bean. How exciting!

So DH came home last night for a 3 day weekend. Teagen was SO excited to see her daddy. So much giggling, kissing and patting. Some good mommy and daddy cuddle time too. He was very chagrined about his attitude the night before and apologized for jumping to conclusions before talking to me. Men...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that's a great deal! If you don't mind my asking, where did you get them? I've been wondering if I should do something like that to save money. . . Keep me posted how you like them please!!


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## DragonflyWing

DH just told me I'm getting fat!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

what the ever living f***?! Who does that? He started out by saying I've been snoring every night for 3 weeks (why the heck didn't you mention it before now?), and that I'm probably accumulating fat around my neck. I was like "Oh my gosh, you think my neck is fat?" and he said "No, you can't see it, but your stomach looks fatter, so you might be getting fat there too." :cry: :growlmad: :wacko:


I tell you, it's kind of hard to TTC when you want to punch your dumbass husband in the face! My feelings are so hurt :(


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm glad your DH apologized for yesterday, and that you guys have the whole weekend together! I'm sure that makes Teagen very happy. :)

Dragon, I don't even know where to begin with your DH's comment. That is SO mean. If there's one thing you should never comment on (unless it's in a very,very nice and complimentary way) it's a woman's weight. Did Captain Insensitive explain or apologize? If not, I'd say, "If my snoring and/or fat is too annoying for you, feel free to sleep on the couch." You're right, though, that isn't too conducive to TTC! :haha:


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## Kellen

Have all the men in our lives been hit with some sort of Postpartum Stupidfier? Dragon, that is a horrible thing for your DH to say. I agree with Wamommy's suggestion... to the couch! No wonder you had a mean response for the misspelling troller.

Right now Teagen is attempting to dismantle my alarm clock. She is obsessed with it. Actually, any clock be it digital or analogue, she just can't get enough. So I unplugged it and she is on the floor with it. She startled herself earlier when it was plugged in and she hit the radio button.

Happy 8 Months to the babies born on the 4th!


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## DragonflyWing

Not even 10 minutes after my last post, DH had the _audacity_ to ask for a nooner!

Of course, I immediately burst into tears and told him that there's no way I could do it without thinking of my fat stomach the whole time. I then proceeded to hide in bed and cry so hard that I couldn't even breathe. DH came in and laid down with me and we finally talked about some things that had been hanging between us for a while. He was also mystified as to why I was so upset about the fat comment. I swear, for a brilliant man, he can be SO dense. He knows perfectly well that I have struggled with eating disorders, and my weight is the most sensitive topic he could possibly find...and yet he has no idea why I'm devastated when he tells me I'm getting fat. *sigh*

In any case, we've mostly cleared the air now, but I still feel exhausted and raw from the whole thing.


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## Kellen

Dragon - I'm glad that you were able to clear the air with your DH. Why men can be so good at somethings and then completely obtuse when it comes to other things still mystifies me.

I - so far after one day - LOVE cloth diapers. They aren't all that complicated and Teagen doesn't cry at diaper changes any more. For the past two months I've been fighting to keep her on her back for diaper changes and she would scream bloody murder even if she didn't have severe diaper rash. Now I can lay her down for a change and she is all smiles. In case you want to check it out here is the website: https://mynaughtybaby.com/products-page/
I looked and they have them on Amazon, but they a bit more expensive. I am going to order more of the washable inserts as I found they work better than the flushable ones. They hold WAY more. I doubled them up and Teagen actually slept last night. No more waking up every 2 hours.


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm glad you and DH were able to talk it out, but I'm sorry it was so hurtful and emotionally exhausting. I agree that men can be completely clueless, and even after a complete explanation will still look at us bewildered. I'm so glad I don't have a penis. It seems to make even the most intelligent man a complete idiot at times.

Kellen, those diapers sound amazing! I've never used cloth diapers, so I don't know a lot about them. Do you wash them at home, or is there a service that sanitizes them for you? My mom used cloth diapers with us, and is very anti-cloth (she says what a pain it was) but I don't think they are ANYTHING like they used to be 30 years ago! The new ones are so cute. :)

It's supposed to be 66 degrees and sunny here today! I think we'll try for one more bike ride before putting them away for the season. I may also try to get some yard work done. The girls LOVE to pull weeds. :shrug:


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## Kellen

We wash them at home. So far we have only had to deal with pee, but Teagen's poops are mostly solid (tmi) so they should just fall off into the toilet. The perk of living in an RV is there is a small hose attached to the toilet so I can easily spray them off. Cloth is something DH and I wanted to do from the beginning. So glad we finally found a solution that was under $300.

It seems like Teagen might be trying to catch a cold. She was coughing and sneezing in her sleep last night and was stuffy in the nose when she tried to nurse. I read somewhere that putting breastmilk up the nose can help. We'll see if it works.


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## wamommy

I've read that about breast milk, too. Hopefully it works, and Teagen doesn't get a full-blown cold. It's no fun!

I turned on a space heater in my bedroom last night and cranked the heat in there to over 70! Max slept SO well (for him...) that I"m thinking maybe he's just been cold??


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## helena

We used fuzzibunz with DS1 for a while, so cute, but always leaked :(

Feeling down here. Think the row with my brother was just another straw on this camels back(does that even make sense!?). Wat with mum being so ill I just didnt need another stress or drain on my emotions..can't seem to shake it off. :( mum still basically anorexic, hardly eating anything beyond a small bowl of low fat cereal and a bowl of soup. We hoped it was caused by the chemo but it. Hasn't got any. Better since she stopped 4 months ago. She will be scanned in a few weeks so maybe then we will know a bit more about how things lie.
On a brighter note we went to a secondhand ski wear sale today and got both sons (3 and 5) boots and skis. They look so cute :) can't wait for them to learn.

Hope Taegen doesn't get a full cold. I think K has had two by now..it's no fun. 
Dragon, I am glad you sorted out DH's comment..that would so upset me! Men don't think the same as us it is true.
Must go and cook dinner now and try and force myself to be a little less depressed, I really feel for DH putting up with me all down...maybe a beer will help!


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## helena

Just to add - Kiara has a third tooth. it isn't one of her top middle ones, but one of those next to them. How funny!? The fourth, matching on the other side, seems to be breaking through too. How strange she will look if the middle two don't get a move on!...hehe. A vampire in time for Halloween!

Xx


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## wamommy

Oh, Helena, I can't imagine how hard it is dealing with your mom being ill. :hugs: Hopefully her scan will bring good news, but the months of worry have taken their toll, I'm sure. As for what your brother said, I understand it sticking with you, but you have got to know what a great Mom you are!! Finding skis for your sons so that they can enjoy the upcoming winter is a great example! I sometimes feel like I'm not a good enough Mom too, and there are so many things I wish I did differently. I then stop, and think about what I wanted as a child more than anything else in the world. I wanted more time with my Mom. I wanted her attention. I wanted to feel like a priority. As much as I feel like I screw up daily (and I do!) I sure as heck give my kids every ounce of time and attention that I have to give. Sure, I could be more patient, less protective, feed them healthier food, do more art projects, bleh... I love them. They know it... end of story. From the last year and a half of knowing you, I know how much you love your kids. I know how much time you spend with them and how much you always consider their well being. Give yourself a break. You are amazing.

As for the vampire teeth, how funny! I demand a picture! :rofl:


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## Kellen

Helena - Your life has undergone huge changes over the past year and a half. Your mom is suffering, you are in a foreign country and you added an additional baby to your life. one can only imagine how difficult things have been. Your brother should try to be a little bit more considerate of all the different stressors you have in your life.

Last night was horrible. Poor Teagen didn't get much sleep thanks to her stuffy nose and consequently neither did i. (And apparently the iPad will try to make a capital i into italics and it is annoying me). We got a vaporizer for tonight as well as some saline drops for her nose. She has been much more subdued today than normal. She was running a small fever so she has had a drop of Tylenol. 

The weather is being amazing today. it is close to 80 degrees outside. Once DH is finished helping my dad clear out the pole barn we are taking Teagen on a walk. Ah, here is the man of the hour now.


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## DragonflyWing

helena, I want to echo what wamommy and kellen have said- you have very legitimate reasons to be stressed, and you're doing so well! You're a great mom. I hope you start to feel better soon, and I hope things improve for your mom too.

As for me, DH was SUPER nice and considerate for about 48 hours after the incident on Friday. I think he felt really bad for hurting my feelings. He started getting a little cranky again yesterday, but not as bad. It's sort of a two steps forward, one step back kind of thing, I guess.


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## SierraJourney

helena :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: I'm so sorry about everything right now. You have so much on your plate. :( you are doing such an incredible job---make sure you do something nice for yourself once in a while---you deserve some breaks and a little rest now and then---I'm hoping that beer helped! ;)

Dragon--so glad things are better with DH! I swear that men PMS more than women do sometimes! :rofl:

Kellen---I'm super intrigued onthe cloth diapers (we have found ourselves in a bit of a financial crunch after Camden was born, so trying to find ways to save some money---right now, I'm spending about $100 a month on diapers!) However, with my working full time at home, I'm not sure the washable inserts are the best choice for me, and DH REFUSES to wash out diapers (MEN! :wacko: ) Soooo. . .my question is, since you switched to the washable liners, was it because the flushable ones leaked? What happens if you double-up on the flushable liners? I change Camden really often---about every 2 hours (except if he's sleeping). . .so I don't let them get too soggy (he cries at even the littlest amount of urine in his diaper. . . So, I was thinking if I went cloth, I'd buy disposables for bedtime so they'll absorb more. Also, do the covers very often get soiled? Do you have to change those multiple times a day? Thanks in advance for the help! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Wow, $100 a month on diapers? I think I spend less than half that for two babies! I just got a box of 96 for $14.99, and that will last us about a week and a half, so that's about $45 a month. Now I'm worried that we don't change the twins often enough! :haha:

They sleep for about 10 hours at night, then they get changed about every 3-4 hours when they're awake, or when they ask to be changed. So I'd say they go through about 4-5 diapers each per day.


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## SierraJourney

Part of the problem is that we buy such expensive diapers because of Camden's sensitive bum. .. lol...and he cries whenever he starts feeling wet. . .so even if he pees a little bit, he wants changed (I call him my "princess boy" :haha: ) I go through anywhere between 10-13 diapers a day with him! He sleeps 11 hours at night, and I don't change him during that time, but for some reason he can't stand to be wet during the day! Oh how I'd love to change him 4-5 times a day!!


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## wamommy

We're somewhere in the middle. I'd say Max uses about 7-10 diapers a day. Most are during the day, and then 1-2 in the night. We buy the Costco pack of Huggies that have 228 diapers in it for just under $40. It lasts over 3 weeks, so we probably spend $50 a month on diapers? He doesn't mind being peepee, but HATES poop. I suppose I would too... :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Okay. .. warning. . . another MIL rant is coming. . .. :haha:

So, next weekend, my MIL is helping to throw a baby shower for DH's cousin. We see this cousin on holidays, but that's about it. Lovely girl. I was invited to the shower, but DH has this important business banquet that evening, which I have to attend with him (and I want to and he REALLY wants me there). It is a 3 hour drive from my house to the baby shower, and a 3 hour drive back. DH is busy all day with this business thing (I don't have to show up until evening), so I would be doing the drive by myself. So, 3 hours there, I'd only be able to spend an hour at the shower, then another 3 hour drive back. Granted, that hour at the shower, I'd have to nurse Camden, diaper him, etc. AND, take into account that my lo HATES the car and cries the ENTIRE drive. Then once home, I'd have to hurry up and give the babysitter instructions, get myself ready for this fancy banquet, then head out once again. So, I told MIL that I just couldn't do the baby shower. She didn't take my answer, so DH called again today to tell MIL that it's really important to him to have his wife by his side for this banquet, etc. Well, MIL got extremely upset, was telling DH that I need to miss his banquet, etc. DH (THANKFULLY) stood his ground, but because I'm missing this cousin's baby shower, we *have* to drive the 3 hour drive there and 3 hour drive back THIS Saturday, to go visit said cousin and drop off a gift----and MIL is barely satisfied with this! I'm agreeing to go down this weekend because DH wants to go see his Mom and sister this Saturday too, but I'm just annoyed that this woman demands so much from me. I mean, it's not like it's my SIL or someone---it's a *cousin*. Again, I love this cousin, great girl, just I dont' think I should be missing something very important to my HUSBAND in order to go to her baby shower when I planned on sending a gift anyways. I'm having a really hard time because I'm beginning to not even be able to stand seeing MIL because she tries to be so controling with our lives. I hate when people try to control me and my natural instinct is to push myself away from the "controller". . . and this being family, is hard to do. But I literally have to grit my teeth around her because she has to meddle in so many things in our lives. 

Argh. . . really no point to this post, except for the fact that I'm fuming and trying not to let DH know that I'm so mad---because then it makes him mad that I don't agree with his mother. Argh.. .. maybe I should convince DH that we need to move to a different state or something so I won't have this problem. ;)


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## wamommy

How frustrating, Sierra! I would most definitely not make the drive, but that's just me. There's nothing an adult could say to me that would hurt my heart more than listening to my baby cry for 6 straight hours. I wish your MIL got that! And Dang! I thought she was doing better respecting your boundaries... Maybe it's a 2 steps forward, one step back, like Dragon was saying about her DH?


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## DragonflyWing

Ugh I would be so annoyed too, Sierra! I truly hate it when anyone tries to pressure me into doing something. I probably wouldn't even have agreed to go make the drive on Saturday, I would have just sent the gift and our regrets. Why is it that when a woman becomes a mother in law, it seems like her controlling dial goes straight to 11?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies. . . Yeah, I really don't want to drive this Saturday---but DH has been wanting to go down to see his family, and it's bee about a month since we've seen his mom. . .so I figured I could consent. Get her off my back, let her see Camden for a bit to make her happy, make DH happy. . .then make me happy next weekend when I don't have to drive by myself. Kind of a stinky compromise, but I think it'd cause bigger issues if I said no. :shrug: I really hope I'm not this kind of MIL when Camden gets married. . . .


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## helena

Oh I would ask DH if we could change the date we go see his mom just on principle...she sounds light a nightmare! I'm not sure I would drive to anyone's baby shower if it meant 6 hours driving with a sad baby. It's cruel for baby. And so stressful for you!

There is a lot to be said for the postal system and amazon for gifts!...

Big brother and I seem to have agreed tow rite off our row since we are both Very stressed just now. I am sure we meant a lot of what we said deep down, but I am happy for the chance to just ignore it all. After all, siblings don't have to get along all the time. It's normal right!?

Massive second hand sale of kids clothes and toys and equipment etc here on Thursday. Am hoping to get Kiara's winter wardrobe sorted plus sell lots of my things :) it's great - you hand someone a bag of labeled items. They put them out on tables, sale them and take the money, then the next day you just turn up and they give you a bag of unsold items (already bagged up for you) and your earnings (less their commission, which is excessive at 40%but its for a school). Easy :)


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## SierraJourney

Thanks helena---I really wanted to say that, but really just don't want to make the situation worse. Someday, I just feel that her and I are going to have this huge fight. . . but trying to avoid it right now. (We got into it before DH & I's wedding because she wanted the reception *her* way and I of course had other plans.. . I'm still healing from that fight and realy don't want another huge one right now. . . ) (Obviously her and I's relationship got off to a GREAT start. :dohh: 

So glad to hear that you and your brother made amends. .. I bet that feels like a big relief for you!

And I'm so jealous of your secondhand sale! I have been meaning to get some more clothes for Camden, but just haven't found any more good used ones or I haven't had time to go out to sales. He's growing like a weed and I'm getting worried because I don't have much stocked up for the winter months. Must get out and find some sales soon! Good luck on selling your items too!! What a nice program!


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## wamommy

That program sounds amazing, Helena! I wish we had something like that here. Actually, I can't really sell anything right now, can I? :dohh: Well, after this baby...lol.

I'm so glad you and your brother had a chance to talk it out. I think fighting with sibling is totally normal, but there's a line you just don't cross. Whether or not he crossed that line with his comments about your parenting, only you know. The thing about siblings is, no matter what happens, they are always your sibling. It isn't like friends where you can write someone off or stop caring about them if they're mean. There's no choice but to forgive a sibling, because they are the only people who knew you when you were in diapers, getting your first zit, meeting your first crush, and graduating high school. It's a precious relationship, and I'm glad you guys are working it out. When my sister said something REALLY hurtful to me I didn't talk to her for 6 months once... but now we talk. Well, we email, but at least we moved past it. I feel so lucky to have siblings, which is one reason I'm so glad to have provided brothers and sisters for my little brood.

Speaking of that, the Ultrasound is tomorrow! It's at 1:30 Pacific time, so I probably won't be home to post all about it until rather late for most of you! I'm pretty nervous. It will be the first time I see my OB face to face since finding out I'm pregnant. She's going to be SO concerned. I really, really like her, and in a different lifetime I would have been her friend. Sometimes we just chat during appointments about life, etc. I do NOT want to see disappointment on her face. :nope: Ah well, it's unavoidable.


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy---don't worry about seeing disappointment on her face---it's not like you planned this baby--and even if you HAD planned it, she shouldn't judge you. .. It's your life and I believe this all happened for a reason. And once you see that cute little babe on the ultrasound, you're going to fall in love all over again. :flower: I cant wait to see pictures!! ENJOY IT!


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## wamommy

Thanks, Sierra! I hope you're right, but I'm still super nervous. It doesn't help that I never found someone to watch the girls, so the the whole family will be there! I haven't decided whether or not to ask DH to sit out with the kids or bring them all in. I'm sure he'll want to be there, but we haven't even told the kids about the baby yet, so what if something's wrong or the baby isn't ok or something? I don't necessarily want them in there for that. Hmm... what would you do?


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## SierraJourney

Could you maybe ask the ultrasound tech to not mention "baby" until she knows it's healthy? Then she can explain it to you? Or would your 5 year old catch on by seeing the ultrasound? (I'm not quite sure what 5 year olds know at this point! lol)


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## SierraJourney

Oh--and just have to share: Got a package in the mail yesterday from MIL---a few new pieces of clothes for Camden. So, I texted her "thank you" and she texts back: "Are you coming on Saturday too?" WTF?! No---I'm just sending my 8 month old son who has bad separation anxiety and BREASTfeeds every 2 hours down with DH by himself! :dohh: Part of me is annoyed wondering if she was "hoping" I wasn't coming! (I know she gets annoyed because I'm always holding Camden--but it's only because he cries uncontrollably when she holds him!) :dohh:


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## wamommy

That's a great idea about telling the tech not to mention a baby on the screen. My 5-year-old might catch on (she's pretty savvy) but I think the 3-year-old will be clueless. We took Max for an abdominal ultrasound last week because of the bump the Doctor felt in his abdomen, and the kids watched the TV in the room the whole time and accepted that we were "just checking to make sure Max is healthy." Maybe I'll tell them that the tech today is just checking to make sure Mommy is healthy? I want to avoid lying to them, without making it weird.

It's so nice that your MIL sent some clothes for Camden, but her text was kind of weird. How tough it is to try to figure out how to read people's behavior! Hopefully she was just making conversation. :shrug:


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## SierraJourney

I think that sounds like a good idea wamommy--just tell them they are checking to make sure mommy is healthy. Since they just went through it with Max, it should "make sense" to them. :flower: Did you get results from Max's ultrasound? I hope everything is okay!

Yes, it was nice of MIL to send clothes. . .and I genuinely think she is a great person---I just think she doesn't realize how she comes off and I don't think she knows when to back down. There is a boundary between saying something and "forcing" it or being intrusive about it. It's funny because DH said that his Mom used to complain about her mother all of the time because she did the SAME thing when DH was growing up---and it just amazes me that MIL can't see that she is doing the same to me. :shrug:


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## DragonflyWing

That's a great idea for the ultrasound! Then when everything shows ok, it will be a fantastic surprise for them :D

The twins had their 9 month checkup yesterday. Gunnar is 20lb 3oz and 28.5 in long, and Lily is 17lb 13oz and 27 in long. Their size is pretty much caught up to their chronological age now! :happydance:

They took their flu shots like champs, only a few seconds of crying and then they were fine. However, Lily HATED one of the nurses and screamed for 10 minutes after she left the room (all she did was measure her length, I don't know why she freaked out so bad). She loves the doctor though, and smiled at her the whole time she was in the room. Gunnar was his usual happy self the whole time, wiggling all over DH's lap and charming the nurses. Everyone wanted to stop in and see the babies, at one point we had 9 people in the tiny examining room!

My mom is mad at me right now because I told her we wouldn't be flying out to NY for my dad's birthday in November. She was counting on us coming out to surprise my dad, and for all of my family to meet the babies...and I would really love that, but logistically it is too hard right now. We would have to bring my breast pump and all the supplies, probably two suitcases of baby stuff, plus a stroller and two carseats...and flying with two 11 month olds plus all that is just too much for me to contemplate. Also prohibitively expensive...my mom offered to pay for the plane tickets, but even without that expense it would still be too much. She doesn't seem to understand the stress it would put on DH and I as well as the babies. They would be out of their comfort zone without most of their own stuff, and meeting tons of new people (my mom was even telling me that people from her work want to meet the babies). I get sick every time I fly, and I'd be so scared that the same would happen to the twins. As much as I'd like to go, it's just not happening. DH suggested that just I fly out there, but my mom basically said that if I don't bring the kids, I might as well not come.

Then she suggested that we drive out instead...but there's no way I can get 4 extra days off from work to do a road trip. Plus, I think that would be MORE stressful! I think it makes more sense to wait until I'm not pumping anymore, and the kids can walk and be a little bit more independent. Maybe next summer.


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## wamommy

I actually haven't heard anything back from the US for Max yet. We had it done at the Children's Hospital, and they were supposed to send the results to my Pediatrician, who would call us. DH says no news is good news, but I wish they'd call! I'm not too worried, because what they were checking for was an enlarged liver or kidneys, but Max has had NO symptoms of either. Maybe I'll call them this afternoon. We leave in an hour for the ultrasound, and I'm so nervous now that I can't really do much but watch the clock.

It actually makes more sense that your MIL was treated the same way by her own mother. Usually when someone's behavior makes us unhappy we do one of two things... we act the complete opposite or we emulate what we know and have seen. Maybe (even though it drove her crazy too!) that's the only way she knows a MIL is supposed to act? Have you ever come right out and told her how much it hurts you that she doesn't respect your role and your decisions as Mom?


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## wamommy

Dragon, my Dad is in California and hasn't met my 3-year-old or Max yet. He only met my oldest once when she was 3 months old! He's an attorney, and always says that work is just too busy to fly up here for a weekend. He wants us to all fly down (5 plane tickets!!!) or drive down (22 hours!!) to visit him. Obviously it would be incredibly tough and financially impossible for us all to go down right now. I don't quite understand why he won't fly up here when he visits my sister almost every weekend? (she is staying about 2.5 hours from where he lives.) So I understand that others don't always consider what it's like to travel with kids... especially babies. I'm sure everyone really wants to meet the babies, but you have to do what works for you guys. Messing with routine can be hell on everyone!!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--I would have said no to traveling too! I can't imagine that with ONE baby--not alone TWO! I agree. . .people just don't understand how hard it is to travel with a baby (and/or kids!)

wamommy---can't wait for your ultrasound---I am just too excited for you! :) It'll go great! Take a few deep breaths and enjoy your pregnancy!!

And no, I haven't come right out and told my MIL that it hurts me . . . I HATE confrontation. . .so usually take the milder approach to things. .. :dohh: I know it'll have to come out eventually, but I'm a coward and putting it off! :haha:


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## wamommy

We're home! It went better than expected. My Doctor wasn't disappointed, but actually happy to see me back! We get along so well that we sat and chatted for quite a while. She's leaving in July to move to the East Coast and is getting married, so it worked out so well that she'll be here until just after this baby is born!

The baby measured 11weeks 3 days, so they're leaving the due date as April 30th. They also offered me a test at the next appointment in 4 weeks that is almost 100% in detecting Down Syndrome. It's a simple blood test, and does what amnio would do without the risk. Apparently since I'll be 35 when the baby is born I'm considered "advanced maternal age." Yikes!! :dohh: I think it's a great new invention that will make me sleep better at night. We also got the date for the anatomy scan. It will be December 4th! I'm almost positive we're staying team yellow, but things may always change. :winkwink:

As for telling the kids, the tech was great. She's done all of my ultrasounds except one with every baby, so I know her pretty well. She was super excited to see us (all of the kids were in there!) and kept our secret. At one point my clever 5-year-old said, "what is THAT Mommy??" and pointed at a clear shot of the baby on the screen. I looked at the sonographer and asked if everything looked alright, and she simply said, "it looks great! Go ahead." So I said, "what does it look like?" and my daughter said, "another baby is in there??" and dramatically slapped her palm to her forehead. It was a classic moment and everyone laughed.

I'm so relieved. I'm still terrified, but I am relieved. The baby is ok. The Doctor is happy. The kids are excited. Now we have to tell my step daughter and my Mom... ugh. That will come tomorrow. For now, I'll just be happy!

Here's the alien growing inside me. :D
 



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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, that's so great! What great ultrasound pics! I'm so glad it went so well :D


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## SierraJourney

Ahhhh! Sooooo cute about your daughter! And team yellow bean looks gorgeous! So adorable! Glad everything went so well!


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## wamommy

Thanks, ladies! I forgot to mention that the heart beat was 172, so possibly another girl? Who knows. To be honest, Max had a high heart beat too, so idk how much truth there is to that theory. That, and I did a really naughty thing and had a cup of coffee this morning. :dohh: Waaaay tmi, but I have a coffee once or twice a week because it makes me go to the bathroom. I'll bet the bean was buzzed! :haha:

Kellen, how's Teagen feeling? I'm so sorry she got sick. :( Max is finally better, but the nights were especially hard with a baby who can't breathe.


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Congrats on the awesome looking baby bean pictures. You can stay team yellow, but let your doctor post here on your behalf so we can all find out... I'm glad for your sake that your doctor is genuinely happy for you. It is nice that the timing works out for her to be there when this bean is born. So cute about DD1.
I'm glad to hear that Max is beginning to feel better. Nighttime is the worst for us too. And obviously the time when I get to type. Teagen has slept with me for the past three nights because she gets scared when she wakes up and can't breathe. Who wouldn't? But we have the vaporizer going, vicks on her chest and saline up the nose! Apparently she only fights and cries about the saline treatment when her daddy is around. If I do it alone she just lays there resigned to her fate and lets me suck the boogies out with the bulb syringe.

Dragon - I don't blame you for not wanting to pack up the twins and go to NY in November. Babies require a HUGE amount of stuff and people who don't have babies either don't know or have forgotten how difficult it is to travel with little people. In my infinite wisdom and/or foolishness I will be accompanying my parents and grandmother to AZ at the end of this month for my other grandmother's 96th birthday. She hasn't met Teagen yet so I wanted to go. DH will still be in Portland studying so this should be interesting. We will only be there for 3 nights, but the plane trip should be interesting. Then this Friday we are traveling 4 hours south for a retirement party for a previous co-worker of my dad's. I grew up with his kids and briefly worked for the same county agency after I got my BA.

Sierra - Your MIL sounds like a trip. Mine does similar things to my DH so I understand. I a way it makes me really happy that I have a daughter and not a son. LOL. 

Update on cloth diapers: So far they are awesome. The flushable inserts are kinda crappy and don't work really well so I haven't been using them. When I do I double them up. Instead I ordered 8 more washables which have worked awesomely. The only leak we have experienced is the first morning pee. Teagen likes to hold it all in during the night. This means the first one is a super soaker! So because the diapers are pocked I place one on the inside and then one right against her skin. They are really absorbent and amazing.

I think I am coming down with Teagen's cold. I have a fever blister on the side of my tongue and it hurts. So AF needs to go away... Sick child + AF + my own cold = grumpy,tired mommy. Oh, and school started back this Monday. I think I have an assignment due tonight. I don't know, I haven't even introduced myself yet. :dohh:

Today Teagen discovered that she can go from her belly to a seated position all by herself, and she is proud of it! It is super cute how she goes about it. She will be on her tummy, get onto her hands and knees and then "walk" her legs until she is on her hands and toes. Then she gently pushes herself to the side, curls a leg and sits! When she is done she waves her hands in the air and screeches with joy. After doing this about 10 times in a row she crawled over to her swing, sat herself down and then pulled herself into a standing position. Overachiever...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--so sorry that you are coming down with Teagen's cold! That's miserable! Hopefully it leaves quickly!

Way to go Teagen! She's doing SO much, Kellen---what a bright little girl! I bet you're super proud! 

Thanks to you, Kellen, I have ordered some cloth diapers, too---just a few to try out. They are supposed to be here early next week. Are you using just cloth right now? How many covers do you go through a day? Do the covers get very soiled? I'm excited. I've been wanting to do cloth since I found out I was pregnant, but DH was totally against it. After you bought some, I figured out the savings and he was a bit happier with it---especially if the flushable inserts work for us. What do you do with the soiled washable inserts? Do you just throw them in a soaking bucket until it's wash time?


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## Kellen

The covers don't get soiled very often as the inserts take the brunt of the damage. So typically we use one cover for the day and a new one at night and a new one in the morning that lasts all day. What I do is immediately take the soiled insert to the sink and rinse it out. Baby pee, especially little boy baby pee is incredibly sterile. Then I hang them up in the shower. I throw them in the wash every other day. Right now we have 16 reusable inserts and we go through about 8 a day and 2 at night.

Like Camden, Teagen would throw a fit if she had even the tiniest bit of pee in her diaper and was prone to horrible rashes. So we were easily spending $80-$100 on diapers a month as well. So far the cloth diapers have cleared up her rash and she doesn't scream and cry when I change her. She is also able to tolerate sitting on a soiled diaper far longer. Of course I try to change her as soon as I realize, but so far she loves these diapers. 

We are almost 100% cloth, but I have cheated a little bit. I know she has a heavy pee in the morning so I use a disposable for that and I know she poos immediately after her first morning nap. So far I've not had to deal with a poopy cloth diaper. :hehe: 

Teagen slept really well last night. So well, in fact, that she only nursed from one side. 4oz in 10 minutes seems fairly impressive and that was from the side that doesn't produce as much. Hopefully I'll be able to have her in her crib part of tonight. I look forward to at least an hour of bed time by myself.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! That's so helpful! The way some of the videos online look, it looks like you go through covers every diaper change. . .so I was really curious. So, it's the insert that you go through? Does that go right next to the skin then? Sorry for all of the questions.. . :flower:

Yay for Teagen sleeping so well! That's wonderful! Keep it up precious little girl!!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so glad Teagen slept better last night! She must be feeling better, thank goodness. I'm sorry you are getting her cold too. :( It's pretty unavoidable since I'm sure you've received a dozen sneezes directly into your mouth/nose. :haha: Hopefully it's short-lived! The bulb syringe was my best friend for a week with Max. It was secretly very satisfying near the end of his cold when I would suck out HUGE amounts. Sorry, that's pretty gross, lol.

I hope the trip to Arizona is fun! You're very brave, but it sounds like Teagen travels pretty well and might enjoy the adventure. I can't believe how much she is doing! What a strong girl!

Sierra, it sounds like cloth might be a good fit for you. I've always kind of wished we could use cloth, since it's so much better for the environment. Luckily Max has super tough skin and has never had a rash, so at least we aren't battling that with disposables. Actually, that's not completely true. He started getting a slight rash after a few days of using Luv's. The perfume in them is SO strong that I could smell it across the room, and could never tell when he pooped. Gross.

I have to resign myself to the fact that I am "Naynay." I don't want to be Nayay. I want to be Mama. DH is "Guh." It's a very deep G sound, lol. I think both of my girls started talking consistently about 10 months, so maybe he'll get "mama" and "dada" around then? For now, at least he's trying!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy--at least you get called SOMETHING! With Camden, I try so hard to make him say "Mama" and every time he lets out a loud "DADA!" :dohh: He still hasn't said Dada in context but just babbles it. . . He's a fairly quiet baby, though. . .screeches here and there when he's excited, but usually just quiet. . .I chalk it up to the fact that maybe he's a deep thinker like his Daddy. . . (one of the things I love about DH).


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## wamommy

I best you're right, Sierra! My brother was SUPER quiet as a baby and didn't really talk until he was about 3. He's now a brilliant, thoughtful, very introspective man. My early talking sister is still a charismatic charming talker. I really think you can see some personality developing already! If so, Max is going to be pretty loud. Most of what he "says" is excited squeals and babbling. He tries out some pretty weird sound combinations, none of which mean anything. It sounds like he's talking. Perhaps it's some alien language he learned in a past life. :haha:


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## SierraJourney

That's adorable wamommy---how cute that he talks that much!


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## wamommy

Just for laughs, here's a picture of Max from this afternoon. We were in Old Navy and his big sister put a girl hat on him. He LOVED it and cried when I took it away. DH was not happy when I suggested letting him have it to wear! :haha:
 



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## Kellen

Sierra - I put the washable insert next to her skin. I guess I am supposed to put it in the pocket, but because I only have three covers I just stick it in kind of like a panty liner. She doesn't seem to mind and it wicks the moisture away really nicely. This way I save the covers. :) I suppose I could put it in the pocket and try out the flushable liners against the skin and see how that works out.

Wamommy - That is so cute! Max sounds like a little charmer.

Teagen certainly has DH's outgoing personality. She loves to smile and flirt with anyone and everyone while we are out and about. However, if someone not family is on our property she will glare at them. It is pretty funny. Last week the cable guy came to switch over some equipment. She had her shoes on so she made me walk her around so she could follow him. My Itty Bitty Inspector. She frequently says "Mum-mum" to me. Tonight in the bath she had two fish in her hands and turned around to me and said: "fssh." Me, I didn't start talking til I was 13 months. I still don't speak much unless I am super comfortable with that person. Typing... I'm a typing fool. Writing is my preferred medium for communication.


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## Kellen

Wamommy - That is an adorable picture! Silly big sisters.

Here is an 8 month update picture of Teagen. Please keep in mind she isn't tiny at 21lb. This is just a huge zucchini from our garden.
 



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## SierraJourney

Aww lovely pictures ladies! wamommy--that hat is so cute--he looks like he is so thrilled with it! Kellen--looks like Teagen should be on a poster for fresh produce--adorable!

Kellen--I was wondering if that would work putting the insert right next to their skin! YAY! I only bought 3 covers as well, so I was hoping there was a way to "reuse" them a couple of times! BTW, if I end up liking them, I think I'm going to get more from SunBaby diapers. They are a bit cheaper per diaper and you can get them with two inserts per diaper. . . I have a friend of a friend that uses them and says they work great! I think they are the same concept as Naughty Baby diapers. I've been watching YouTube videos on cleaning cloth diapers, and I think the flushable liners will come in handy because it looks like if you use one of those, you just flip the poop into the toilet and then you don't have to soak or spray off the diaper (which I KNOW DH wouldn't do :haha: ) 

Dragon---are you getting close to testing soon? I can't remember. . . I've been getting the baby itch lately, so need to live vicariously through someone! :haha:


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## Kellen

Oooh, good info on the SunBaby diapers. I will have to look into them. Ah, her royal highness is calling for me to stop being on the computer.


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- pretty sure I'm either ovulating today, or I did within the past couple days. I'm waiting for my crosshairs in FF :) So, testing in a little less than 2 weeks.


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## SierraJourney

Yay for ovulating! lol


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## wamommy

Let the TWW begin! I'm excited, Dragon! 

Kellen, what a big, bright smile Teagen has! I love that picture. 

My older sister and I used to dress up my brother in all sorts of costumes. We have pics of him as a toddler/little boy wearing tutus, leotards, all kinds of hats, princess dresses, etc. It's made for some REALLY fun dinner conversation with his new fiance. :haha: I'll probably let the girls "abuse" Max in this way, because it was so very fun and didn't seem to hurt my brother any!

I'm not that much of a talker in real life either, until I get to know someone. Once I'm comfortable, I'm a chatterbox. I still don't really care for the phone, though. I always feel like silences are awkward and misunderstandings are inevitable. I usually dodge phone calls and email people instead when possible. :blush:

It's freezing here today! Our heat pump has been whirring away all morning. I guess I should get used to it. Any ideas for fun things to do when it's too cold to play outside?


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--Camden's two cousins are both girls, so I'm assuming he'll get dressed up too! :haha:

I, too, am not that much of a talker until people get to know me in real life. and I HATE the phone as well. . .it's always so awkward! lol My best friend and I don't even talk on the phone because we both think it's so awkward. .. . 

As far as fun things to do when it's too cold outside. .. I've been wondering that, too! I think we'll go to the mall a lot more that's for sure! Maybe take up a class or something for Camden? Or bundle him up and take him on an infant sled on some nature trails or something? I'm not really sure. Anyone else have any ideas?

I'm in a pretty bad mood today because I'm dreading tomorrow. DH had told me originally that we would go antiquing while we're visit his mum---he was trying to tell me that he's been wanting to get more antiques, so we'll do that and visit his mum just to get it over with. Well, then, today, his mum tells us that "we don't have to go antiquing while we're down there", so I ask DH "Well wasn't that one of the main reasons for going down there?!" And he says "more or less, but we don't have to do the antiquing". So, basically, he was just telling me antiquing so that I would be happier about it. . .so we're basically making this huge long trip to appease his mother. ... seriously, when will men ever be able to stand up to their Moms?! (And yes, I realize I have a son and will be that mom, but I'm hoping he'll at least tell me when he doesn't want to do something and if I'm upsetting his wife!) Argh. .. .let's just hope tomorrow gets over with quickly. . ..


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## DragonflyWing

As long as my temp doesn't drop below 97 (it was 97.6 this morning) tomorrow, FF is going to give me crosshairs for CD 16, which was on Tuesday. So I think I'm 3dpo!

We dtd on O, O-2, O-3, and O-4. We only missed O-1.

Once again, never got a positive OPK! :wacko: That's three months that I've used them and never gotten a positive (the first month I conceived the twins!).

On an unrelated topic, I hate pants! Don't laugh at me, but I've actually been wearing my maternity jeans and dress pants alllll this time since the twins were born. They're so comfy! I finally bit the bullet and started wearing my normal jeans a few days ago, and OMG I HATE THEM. I feel like I'm being squeezed to death, even though they're not even that snug. I just loathe having something pressing on my stomach now. I feel almost claustrophobic in them! I've been squirming around in my chair all day trying to get comfortable, but I just can't! How weird am I?


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## wamommy

Sierra, I hope my son can stand up to me someday too! I don't know if "stand up" is the right phrase... Maybe I just hope he can be HONEST with me, instead of beating around the bush? I'm not a huge fan of passive aggressive behavior. I really like when people say what they mean, so I guess that gives me something to focus on teaching the kids! Anyhow, I hope tomorrow goes well, and that the drive is easy on Camden (and you!). Hopefully there will be time for some antiquing. :D

Dragon, sending you positive vibes! (pun totally intended :haha:) Oh, and I totally get the pants thing! I am wearing regular jeans, but they create a super unattractive "roll" right now. Thank you, 1st tri bloat. :( I might splurge on some new jeans tonight. After 3 pregnancies my favorite maternity jeans have literally been sewn (to fix rips and splits around the band and where the zipper would be) probably 10 times!! Honestly, I would still be wearing them (since Max) if they didn't have new rips!


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## helena

Hi ladies! Love the pics. What happy little people we have :) 
I think when it comes to trousers I now need high waisted trousers, to tuck the tummy into...it's not that it is huge, it just has no strength so flops more than it ever did before..gone are my hipster days..

I went into a shop after my second baby and discussed bikinis with a sales assistant. It was her that told me about high waisted trousers etc and I hadn't thought about it before. But it makes for a much comfier fit and a better silhouette. On that day I bought a great bikini that has an extra wider waist band that can be rolled up to cover the tummy or folded down for sunbathing etc. it was the melt expensive bikini I ever bought but well worth it. All the others just made me feel wrong. I am still about 4 kilos heavier than pre Kiara. Wll get round to that one day... (Not today, just had croissants for breakfast, it seems wrong not to at the weekends in France...yum!).


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## helena

Wamommy my, so glad your scan went well! And so sweet telling the kids there. Clever 5 year old! Xxx


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## wamommy

Helena, I've heard that high waist pants are fantastic. Most of my current jeans cause muffin top, and I've heard high waist pants combat that. Do you know what brands make good ones? I went and tried some maternity jeans on yesterday and got super discouraged. Even maternity jeans look odd on me?? :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy- Kohls has great maternity jeans... that's all I wore. I'm too having the muffin top problem... please do let us know brands to combat that!


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## Kellen

I will trade your muffin tops for acne. My cycle has finally regulated itself back to 25 off 7 on (I'd like my previous 4 days of AF back instead of 7 please). But the worst is the acne. I'm over it. I enjoyed having non-broken out skin during pregnancy and the 8 months after... I want it back!

I too hate the telephone. I find email and texting to be way more friendly. That way if someone is in the middle of doing something they can respond when they have a free moment. If Teagen is napping there is a 100% chance I won't answer the phone.

Teagen was a good girl on our weekend trip to California. Of course not even 5 minutes after we checked into the motel there was a 4.9 earthquake. I had a rather traumatic experience as a child in a big earthquake and they still freak me out. I successfully convinced myself for 5 minutes that it was the room above that made the TV shake and the walls shudder... Until my dad called to ask if we felt it. Then I called DH and melted down.
The morning after Teagen was nursing when all of a sudden I hear my mom query: Is it raining in here? They were working on the toilet above our room and it started pouring down through the ceiling. So we were moved to another room and given 50% off our stay. It helped that the manager on duty is a family friend. She was so glad it was us instead of strangers.
The next night there was some gun fire, underage drinking and a pool party. Teagen slept through the whole thing. My husband asked me if I wanted to move back to Humboldt County... I said no. 

Sierra - I hope you were able to do some antiquing. We actually - oddly enough - went to an antique show this afternoon. It is an annual thing and I used to have to work the chamber of commerce booth each year growing up so we knew most of the dealers. Everyone loved Teagen. I put her shoes on so she "walked" the entire building and charmed everyone. Apparently she is overly enthusiastic and scares other kids. She chased down an 18 month old who started clinging to her mom. Yep, I have _that_ kid.


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## Herbert680

I hope you have room for one more


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## DragonflyWing

Hi Herbert :) Did you also have a baby this past February?

Ugh DH is being such a BUTT!! For some reason he's just constantly looking for a reason to be mad at me, and then he acts all disgusted with me and gives me the silent treatment. On Sunday, he told me if I didn't clean the litter boxes before I left to run errands, the cat would be gone when I got home. WTF? That is not how a marriage works...threats and ultimatums? Who are you and what did you do with my husband? I stood there in shock for about 3 full minutes before saying quietly "What's wrong?" He just stopped, made a disgusted noise, and walked away.

Last night, he asked me to help him get the twins ready to leave this morning. I agreed, but also told him that I have back to back meetings from 9am-11am, so it would have to be before that. I got up at 8 and got the diaper bag ready, but he and the babies were still asleep, so I couldn't do much else. I went back to the bedroom to pump, and when I came back out, they were awake and he had the kids in their carseats already. I asked if he wanted me to put a bib on Gunnar, since he had his bottle, and DH says "Well, I guess, if that's the extent of your helping." I told him everyone had been sleeping when I got up, but that the diaper bag was ready to go so all he had to do was give Lily her bottle and they were set. He gave this big sigh and said "I asked you to help me get them ready." All the while he won't look at me and he's all in a temper, and then he stormed out with the kids.

I wanted to scream at him. What the heck did I do wrong? I have no idea what I could have done differently. I hate feeling like he's constantly disappointed in me, but he won't talk to me or tell me what the heck is wrong.


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## helena

Oh dragon, that sounds like hard work. Hope he opened up and talks soon..

You don't think it's the fear of another baby arriving in the future and more work? Just a thought.

Hope you guys get it sorted soon, I hate falling out :(


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## DragonflyWing

I don't know, but I wish he'd just learn to talk to me like a human being. We never used to fight like this. 

I think part of it is that he's so sleep deprived, but he never sleeps when he has the opportunity...I don't know how to force him to get enough sleep if he won't go to bed! Every night I try to get him to come to bed with me, but he always says he has just one more thing to finish. Then I wake up at 4-5 am and he's still sitting on the computer. Then the babies are up at 7-8 and DH says he's had no sleep. Well whose fault is that? *sigh*


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## wamommy

Dragon, that sounds so tough! Maybe he's feeling kind of lost without his work or a lot of time to himself? Maybe he resents that you still get to work? I have no idea, but treating you poorly without discussing what's REALLY going on is not fair at all. Has he always had a hard time communicating? This is what I was talking about the other day about not liking passive aggressive behavior. If he's angry about something, I wish he'd just come out and say it! Instead of making YOU feel hurt and angry until you bring it up. It's like a total cop out. I hope it gets better. :hugs:

Kellen, your trip sounds eventful! What a nightmare hotel. I stayed at one with my brother years ago in our way to the Shakespeare festival where after you closed the door it said, "Please lock all locks for your protection." There were 5 locks! Needless to say, I didn't feel very safe staying there. 

I wouldn't worry too much about having _that_ kid, lol. My oldest was that way. She always frightened other kids away by running at them, trying to hug them, or being overly friendly. Now at 5 she is the most social, friendly little creature. She's not overly loud or obnoxious. :haha: It's great that Teagen is so accepting of new experiences and embraces them. Every baby is so different, huh?


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## Kellen

Life stinks. Happy Birthday your car has been stolen please find me the number for the police. Oh, and the baby might be coming down with an ear infection... or her top two teeth could be coming in. Hey, you need to do school work today too. Um, bills are due tomorrow might want to transfer some money...

I think I'll go back to bed and try life again later. :(


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## wamommy

:hugs: :hugs: I'm so sorry, Kellen! Happy birthday. I wish it were a better one for you! Maybe try a do-over tomorrow and hope life doesn't throw so much crap your way so you can just enjoy it.


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry you're having such a terrible day, Kellen! I hope it gets better :hugs:


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## Kellen

Thanks all. Life is just overwhelming right now. Dragon, I feel for you with a DH that won't even tell you what he wants changed. It sounds like he is more unhappy with himself that he is with you, but you are a nice target.

DH has a line on a fairly good job. So my mom and grandma took Teagen on a walk so I can fill out the application. DH is fairly helpless when it comes to tweaking PDFs. Sigh... and I could be napping. But I guess at the price of $1,700 a week I can't complain.

On an up note our insurance company is awesome! This is the third claim we've filed with them and they are still keeping our current rate (actually, lowering it now that I'm finally 25). First our house was broken into in Georgia, then I had the hit and run last August and now this. Thankfully the car insurance covers the carseat and GPS that were in the car while our renters insurance covers DH's personal handgun and all his study equipment.


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## helena

Happy brithday Kellen!!! Hope you get a birthday cake :) x

Dragon, what does he do on the computer until 5 am? Games? Wowee he must be exhausted! Is he awake and happy during the day with the babies? We, I couldn't handle that, I need sleep or being a SAHM is too tough!
Kiara is currently eating pasta and tuna for lunch. She is happy :)
Unfortunately she also has a bad cough again. I think its bronchiolitis again, she had high fever a couple of nights ago. Se would only sleep in my bed, in my ams...all very cute. For five minutes. I woke at 5am to her on all fours, sucking on my chin, then trying to teethe on my chin, then laughing. Monkey.its like having a puppy waking you up with a lick:)


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## wamommy

Kellen, I hope your DH gets the new job! It sounds great. Did your birthday improve?

I'm so sorry to hear Teagen and Kiara are sick. :( Poor babies! Poor Mommies, too... I know the lack of sleep is so tough!

Max finally has a tooth! He has one little razor poking out on the bottom. He's still not crawling, though, but one thing at a time. :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen--I'm so sorry your birthday was so rough! I'm hoping it improved dramatically! Happy Birthday!

YAY wamommy on Max getting his tooth! :) We're still not crawling here, so you're not alone! ;)

helena---Kiara sounds adorable. . .even though she is sick. Poor babe. Sounds like the sleeping with mommy helped some though! :)

Kellen, I ordered two different types of diapers that should be here soon. . .SunBaby and Alva. I'm trying them out to see which ones I like the best. :)


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## DragonflyWing

He stays up late working on spreadsheets and other things for his business...sometimes he's up working on this Grandpa's finances (he's power of attorney for his grandfather). Once in a while he stays up to watch TV shows on Hulu...but mostly he's doing work stuff.

A lot of the time he's really cranky with the kids because he's tired, but he does manage to stay awake.

That's so funny that Kiara woke you up that way! I'm sorry she hasn't been feeling well, I hope she feels better soon.


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## SierraJourney

Dragon, is there some time during the early evening you can have DH do his work stuff while you watch the babies? That way maybe he won't have to stay up so late? Sleep deprivation causes so many problems---which may be the number one reason he's been treating you the way he is :shrug:


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## DragonflyWing

Yeah, I've asked him to work on it in the evenings, and I put the babies to bed every night, so he has from about 6:30-11pm to work on stuff, but he always decides to do other things during that time. I'm really at my wit's end, because I can't force him to sleep, but I feel like it's my fault somehow that he's tired.

I don't think I actually ovulated on CD16 like FF said. My temp dropped today and I got a positive OPK plus fertile cm, so maybe I'm gearing up now. :wacko:


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> Yeah, I've asked him to work on it in the evenings, and I put the babies to bed every night, so he has from about 6:30-11pm to work on stuff, but he always decides to do other things during that time. I'm really at my wit's end, because I can't force him to sleep, but I feel like it's my fault somehow that he's tired.
> 
> I don't think I actually ovulated on CD16 like FF said. My temp dropped today and I got a positive OPK plus fertile cm, so maybe I'm gearing up now. :wacko:

Oh dragon---don't feel that it's your fault. You're doign what you can, it sounds like! I think he needs to communicate what he needs---obviously sleep, but maybe there are other things he needs in order to help him get more work done so he CAN sleep. Are any of those "other things" he does in the evening ---are they something you can help with to give him more time to work? I know with my DH, I have to ask him to do things for me in order to free up my time more---I ask him to do the dishes or go through the mail, etc, because those are little things that will take up my time which he could help with. I obviously don't know your guys' schedule or situation, but I do feel badly for you and hope that you both are able to communicate a bit better and solve this. :hugs:

And you'd better get on dtd if you're ovulating! :)


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## helena

DragonflyWing said:


> Yeah, I've asked him to work on it in the evenings, and I put the babies to bed every night, so he has from about 6:30-11pm to work on stuff, but he always decides to do other things during that time. I'm really at my wit's end, because I can't force him to sleep, but I feel like it's my fault somehow that he's tired.
> 
> I don't think I actually ovulated on CD16 like FF said. My temp dropped today and I got a positive OPK plus fertile cm, so maybe I'm gearing up now. :wacko:

Are you sure you guys can handle another right now? Sorry, just asking. I am sure you know what you are doing. But I know the urge to make a baby is hard to ignore sometimes .. i definitely always went by my heart not my head xx


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## wamommy

Helena, I know the answer to that question for us is no, we can't handle another one. :haha: :dohh: :dohh: Ugh. How's Kiara feeling? Max is sick AGAIN, and this time it's gone to his chest and turned to an ugly cough. I feel so bad for him! I wish I could be him for 2 minutes to cough it all up, since the problem is that he simply doesn't know how to hack it up. I really don't like cold and flu season so far!!

Dragon, it sounds like a really tough situation. I wish I had the perfect advice! I guess I mostly wish that your DH could sit down and have a true, honest, open conversation about everything and work with you on how to fix it. Is that possible? I don't know how you're supposed to know what to do if he won't even tell you what he needs?


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## DragonflyWing

I'm starting to think he's just being moody due to lack of sleep...I'm finding if I just leave him alone to cool off, he's acting normally within half a day. I think constantly asking what was wrong was annoying him. I'm trying to pick up some of the slack with housework, and I've been making dinner so he doesn't have to worry about that. This morning he seemed totally back to normal- so keep your fingers crossed!

dtd also helps with his mood ;)

helena, that's a good question. I think right now we probably couldn't handle another one...but in 9 months I think we can.


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## Kellen

Dragon - That is a difficult situation. Before Teagen came along my DH would stay up hours into the night playing games and doing stuff on his computer. It was hard because I really wanted him in bed with me and I'd wake up multiple times to go check on him and try to get him to sleep. I'm not sure what changed, but he finally goes to sleep at a decent hour. I know this has improved our relationship. I'm sorry your DH doesn't get enough sleep, but maybe it is his way of winding down. He might just need a little free time and doesn't feel like he gets any during the day. As a SAHM I understand the desire to just be all alone for 5 minutes without someone demanding my attention. Hopefully you'll be able to talk to him and resolve the situation.

Helena - I hope Kiara starts feeling better soon. How are the little vampire teeth coming along? You must take a picture when she is smiling so we can all ooh and awe over more little teeth.

Wamommy - Cold season here in the Pacific Northwest sucks. I hope that Max starts feeling better. Poor little guy.. I think I'm coming down with something... I skated on the first cold and only had a day when I felt a little off. I ended up taking Teagen to the pediatrician on Tuesday. Good news no ear infection. Bad news end of a cold, bad diaper rash and fluid behind the ears that could turn into an ear infection.

Awesome news: The police found our car! Hallelujah! Tomorrow DH goes to do a damage assessment of it with the insurance people. Hopefully someone just took it for a joy ride and didn't throw out all of DH's study materials for school.

Sad news: DH is going back to Portland to study. He has only been gone for 3 hours and I miss him. Having him here for 24 hours and then gone again is a killer. Teagen was so thrilled to see and play with her daddy. After he left she became a little monster... Thankfully after throwing a huge tantrum she passed out at 6:30 and has been asleep ever since. Now that it is a whopping 8:45 I think I'll go to bed.


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, I'm so glad they found your car! I hope everything is intact and accounted for!

Last night I put the babies down for some floor time, and they had so much fun! They're trying really hard to crawl, but so far they just swivel around on their bellies and roll to get where they want. :haha: I'm not sure what Lily was doing that was so funny, but Gunnar was laughing his head off at her. They were facing each other on their tummies, and she was kicking her feet, and Gunnar was just giggling and giggling...it was so cute. I actually got a video of it, I have to figure out how I can share that.


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## Kellen

Apparently the Sheriff's Office stopped the guy who stole our car and we have a court date on Wednesday. They broke out the passenger's side window and found the Valet key. :dohh: They took the gun, some Christian music CDs, our MP3 player, the GPS, the Bluetooth thingy, DH's plotting equipment for school, the spare change and all of our coffee stamp cards. But... the carseat was still there and intact! DH looked at the car and said it was super beat up. The repair place said it will take until October 30th to fix all the cosmetic damage.

Donald Ray Harris, I am glad you are in jail where I cannot get to you or you would be in a world of hurt. You don't want the momma bear coming after you. Be glad Teagen has a cold or I'd be there on Wednesday to watch you get your due.

In other news we are using disposable diapers right now because of Teagen's stuffy nose. She screams and cries whenever I lay her down to change her diaper. I'm not quite fast enough to change the cloth diapers while she is standing, but I can do it with the disposables. She likes the cloth better, but not if she has to lay down to be changed. I can't wait for this cold of hers to be gone.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so glad they found the guy who stole your car! I HATE that form of violation, and I hope he gets the book thrown at him. Years ago our house was broken into and they stole almost everything. Some things can be replaced, but things like a cedar chest passed down to me from 4 generations of women in my family, can't. I still get angry when I think about that break in, and it was 6 years ago!

As for the cold, I hear ya. I was up ALL NIGHT with Max last night. I literally closed my eyes at 12:38, and woke up to Max crying at 12:43. He then proceeded to cry, flail, scratch, headbutt and arch his back until 5:00am, when he finally passed out on my bed. When the girls woke me up at 8:00 I asked them to go get their Dad, because Max and I needed to sleep. :haha: I've honestly never had a baby this sick. He coughs like a baby seal. It's this weird barking, and when I hold him I can feel the mucus rumbling in his chest. If it doesn't dramatically improve this evening I might run him down to the after hours Doctor near our house. Poor little Max. :(


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--so glad they found your car!!! I'm so sorry for the trouble it's caused though. :( 

Wamommy---that cold sounds awful! Poor Max!! :( I hope all of the babies are feeling better soon! 

Poor Camden. . .my family is visiting this weekend and he is struggling with his separation anxiety or social anxiety. . .whatever it is. . . crieds hysterically whenever anyone holds him. My poor Mum tries so hard to console him, and yet he cries. . . and cries. . .She's watching him tonight and I'm going to try to put him down to bed 40 minutes earlier than normal (before I leave) just because I know he'll just stay up screaming with my Mum. :( I'm not sure when he'll grow out of this, but it breaks my heart. ..


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## helena

So glad they found your car!! That was awful.

Kiara got better but then a bit sick again, kind of flu ish. Me too. Sorry to hear Max is sick too :( i love Autumn but the germs are horrid. We usually get lots of child ear infections here :( 
But yesterday we had a really nice family day out, before we both started feeling crappy again :) the last of summer maybe
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/CCEE295E-orig.jpg


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## wamommy

What a gorgeous family, Helena! Your kids are all such a wonderfully cute mix of he 2 of you. So lovely!! :D That would make a great Christmas card.

I'm sorry to hear you and Kiara are sick, too. This time of year is really tough, isn't it? I think here it's because my oldest started going to school and keep dragging bugs home. My 3-year-old is coughing deeply today too... sigh.

Sierra, how did this weekend's visit with friends go? I wish I had some great and helpful advice about how to help Camden. I really hope he grows out of it, for your sake. I know how much stresss and worry it causes. 

Dragon, how many dpo are you now? Any tests?


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness, helena---you have such a lovely looking family! So sweet!! 

wamommy---it went well! I very much enjoyed the weekend. Camden was his usual self around others, but they still enjoy him. :) 

Sorry to hear about all of the sickness--I hope it goes away soon!!


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## DragonflyWing

What a great photo, helena! Lovely family :D

I have no idea how many dpo I am. I got crosshairs on FF on CD16, then I got a positive OPK on CD 22, which took the crosshairs away...but then I never got a temp rise, so I don't know if I even ovulated. I'm on CD28 today and I don't know what my body's doing. BFNs all around.

I have another business trip tomorrow and I'll be gone two days :( I'm not looking forward to it.


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## Kellen

Helena - You have an absolutely gorgeous family. You could easily all be on the front of a postcard. This time of year just seems like the "sickie" season for us all. I hope that the ear infections stay away from your family though.

Wamommy - Poor Max and your DD2. School is harsh when it comes to getting sick. I read somewhere that if kids have a bunch of colds and stuff when they are little they grow up with really tough immune systems. So hopefully this is just strengthening their internal defense forces!

Sierra - I have zero advice for you, but lots of sympathy! I wish I could bottle some of Teagen's out-goingness and love of everyone and send it to you. I was similar to Camden when I was little. I can actually remember making myself sick when I was about 3 and my mom went out with some of her friends and left me home with my dad... Eventually I grew out of it because once kindergarten hit I didn't even wave goodbye to my parents.

Dragon - Traveling for work is hard, but maybe these few days away will give your DH time to think things over and be ready to start anew.

Teagen's newest accomplishment is signing "milk" in context. It started a few days ago when we were nursing and she started squeezing her hand together. I praised her for signing milk and signed back at her. Then, today, my dad was watching her so I could finish eating when she started wailing. He brought her into the kitchen and she looked at me, then looked at her hand and signed "milk." I immediately rushed the rest of my dinner and we went and nursed for about 15 minutes.
Then tonight when we were in the car coming home from getting ice cream she was becoming fussy. She looked over at me (yes, I ride in the back with her) and said: "Mum-mum *sign"* milk." So proud...


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## wamommy

Good luck on your business trip, Dragon! I agree that it might be good for your DH to have a couple of days to miss/appreciate you. Keep us posted on the tests!

Kellen, that is too cute about Teagen signing "milk." So cool! What a smart little girl. Don't worry about sitting in the back. I did with BOTH girls, and only sit in the front now because Max will freak out if he can see me but I don't pick him up. :haha: 

I am officially sick now, too. :( We bought some Tylenol just in case I spike a fever like the kids did. So far, no fever, but I've read going over 102 while pregnant is dangerous. I mostly just feel bad for the kids. It sounds like the tuberculosis ward in our house!

On an off note, I am not happy that they changed the format of BnB. It's everyone and not just me, right? I miss my purple screen and am not a giant fan of change. I blame hormones, but it really bothers me. :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

I'm so glad you mentioned something wamommy! I thought it was just my screen! lol It's awful! And it's hard to see too! :( The purple was much more clear! 

I'm so sorry that you are now sick wamommy! Definitely watch that temp! And rest when you can!

Kellen---thanks for the reassurance! It's nice to know he'll eventually grow out of it! So cute that Teagen signs milk in context! Such a bright girl!


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## Kellen

I dislike the new format too.Too much white makes my eyes burn.


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## wamommy

Yes! I'm glad it's not just me. I had to turn the brightness down on my computer screen.


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## wamommy

Apparently we aren't alone! Luckily, I found how to turn it BACK to our favorite purple. Here's the link. Just follow her link and instruction and it goes back. Phew. Much better.

https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/f...-design-information-bug-feedback-reports.html


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## DragonflyWing

My flight was cancelled, and I've been sitting in the airport for over 8 hours waiting for a seat to open up on another flight. I'm not going to get to Atlanta until 10:30pm instead of 9am! :growlmad:

It really sucks having to find places to pump in the airport.

Edit: I just found a nice quiet place to pump in semi-privacy...and just as I set everything up, two guys walked over and decided to conduct a job interview right behind me. Nice. I'm sure they'd love the *honk honk honk* of my pump to add ambience to their meeting.

I need this day to be over.


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## Kellen

Don't have too much fun in Atlanta, Dragon. Too bad we moved or I'd offer to take you out to dinner. 

Wamommy - Thanks for posting the link to changing it back to the purple. The all white screen was a bit too much for me.

Teagen is in her swing yelling. She is over due for a nap and is fighting it with every ounce of her little being. I hear "Mamma!" Blowing raspberries. "Ahahaha!" Uuuuhghgh... rrraa! She needs to calm down and then we'll try this whole nursing for a nap thing again.


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## wamommy

Dragon, I hope you made it home in one piece. It sounds like quite the trip! I must say, though, picturing you pumping with the guys having a meeting behind you is kind of funny... probably because it wasn't me! 

We're all still sick here. Max has turned a corner, I think... *knock on wood* We're supposed to go to DD's Trunk or Treat at school and also a chili cook off at church tomorrow, but something tells me we won't make either. :( Hopefully all is well by Tuesday, when DD#2 turns 4!

How is everyone doing?


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## DragonflyWing

Well, I made it home more or less in one piece last night :haha:. It was an incredibly stressful two days, and I slept for about 10 hours when I got home, but I still feel like I was run over by a truck. 

I was awakened this morning by a loud bang followed by hysterical crying...I ran out into the living room to find out that DH had put Gunnar on the couch and turned his back, and Gunnar took a header onto the floor. He was fine, just really scared, but I think it took 10 years off my life! :wacko:

The babies were so happy to see me this morning, and Lily kept making DH carry her into the bedroom where I was working so she could make sure I was still here hehe. Gunnar got so excited at one point that he tried to touch my face and instead stuck his finger right up my nose! His little fingernails are like razor blades, and my nose immediately started gushing blood, and I had to hand him to DH quickly so I didn't drip it everywhere. 

I'm just really hoping that I don't get sick...I tend to pick up a bug every time I travel. I haven't even had a cold since the babies were born (neither have they), and I don't want to break our streak now!


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## Kellen

Dragon - The trip does sound stressful, but I'm glad you are back in one piece with happy babies to welcome you home. Your poor nose!

Wamommy - I hope that all your colds clear up. Teagen is finally over hers... now we are teething and super grumpy.

Can you believe that at this time last year we were all celebrating V Day? It was also the day my grandfather passed away. Today has been one of those not so great days. Teagen is teething and all she wants to do is nurse and fuss at me. And then when we are nursing she wants to play and climb all over me. If I so much as walk out of her sight she screams down the house.

I thought we were all over having screamy diaper changes, but I guess not. Today I tried to change her diaper and she absolutely refused to stay on her back. I ended up raising my voice at her... which then resulted in my crying... which made her cry... which made me cry harder. It doesn't seem like any thing I do today for her is right. I feel like a crap mommy because I just want a break. Thankfully DH is coming home tonight for a four day visit.


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## wamommy

Oh Kellen, I'm so sorry today is a hard day. You have every right to be emotional, and I'm sure Teagen won't remember or mind you raising your voice. As hard as we try as Moms, some days are just like that... Life doesn't stop for a teething baby or an impossible diaper change, and you're completely human for wanting a break. I'm so glad your DH is coming home to help. :hugs: If it makes you feel any better, I yelled at DD today and feel awful. She's a non-stop talker, and a funny little creature. Usually it's amusing, but today my head is pounding, and I can't even take anything for it. After a 10 minute _loud_ monologue on Tinkerbell, I finally yelled, "Can you please stop talking for 2 minutes????" She looked so sad. So yes, we are all crap Moms at times. Luckily the good FAR outweighs the crap.

Dragon, I'm glad you made it home ok. :) It sounds like the kids missed you and are glad you're home. Ouch about your nose, though! I'm wearing glasses today after Max did a similar thing to my eyeball and I can't wear my contacts. :dohh:


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## helena

Hi all.

Dagon, how do you manage to pump in public?! I must admi I and a little chuckle to the guys doing an interview!

Preparing to fly with Kiara again tomorrow to go see my mum and dad. Can't wait. Fingers crossed she will be good onboard again :)

I have also gone back to purple :)


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## Kellen

Helena - I am glad that you are getting to see your mom again. Keep us posted as to how Kiara does on the plane and what I should take with me on the plane next week to keep Teagen out of trouble.

Wamommy - Thanks for making me feel better. Yesterday was just one of those days. Thankfully DH showed up at 2pm instead of 5pm and was amazing! We ended up going to the park and letting Teagen run around for over an hour. She ended up sleeping from 7:30 - 1:30 and then from 1:45-6:30. It was fantastic! You were so right that saying that I feel better when DH is around.

Teagen is due for a nap anytime now. She is currently wearing herself and her dad out. They are outside playing. She went on a tractor ride, a four-wheeler ride, her swing and more all the course of 2 hours...


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## wamommy

Helena, I hope your trip goes well and that Kiara makes the plane ride alright. I also hope your Mom is doing well. I know it's always a mix of difficult and wonderful to see her, but I hope it's more wonderful!

Kellen, Teagen is so lucky to be growing up somewhere that she can experience so many cool things! I would have been in heaven with access to four-wheelers and tractors as a kid. We had a big yard (by today's standards) but it was mostly a mud pit with a rickety swing set. :dohh: It was large enough for dogs, though! I SO wish we could have a dog for the girls. I have so many fond memories of my pets as a child. We have cats, but no fence... so no dog. :(

The last few days have been SO busy! We had Trunk or Treat at my DD's school. It's where the cars pull in backward and hand out candy from their trunks to all of the school kids. Saturday morning we went to the pumpkin patch, where we rode a hay ride, used a pumpkin sling-shot, and picked out a giant wheelbarrow full of pumpkins. We ended up with EIGHT pumpkins, which would be fine if I weren't on solo carving duty. I did 2 last night, and I'll shoot for 4 tonight. I'm a perfectionist, so it's always a bit traumatic carving. Then Saturday night we had a church chili cook-off and costume parade for the kids. They loved the attention, little hams. Sunday afternoon we met my Mom at the Rainforest Cafe for a volcano sundae for Nica's 4th birthday, which is Tuesday. Today I'm finalizing plans for her party tomorrow and getting ready to bake a Cinderella cake. Meanwhile, DH slept until 10 am this morning, and I'm completely behind on all I need to get done and slightly irritated. Wouldn't it be nice to sleep in knowing that someone else is handling EVERYTHING and you can just relax? Deep, calming breath.

How was everyone's weekend? What are your plans for Halloween? Do they celebrate Halloween in France or England?


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## Kellen

Wow! Life sounds super busy for you. Trunk or Treats are fun. I remember back in the day when they first started to become popular. The weekend was awesome for us as Teagen got to have her daddy for a whole four days. It made my life so much easier.

Except... she was cruising on the furniture and started to tumble and grabbed the cord to DH's computer. Which then popped the pin out of the DC in plug. So now that computer is off being repaired and mine is 250 miles away from me. Sigh... 

Tomorrow we leave for four days to celebrate my grandmother's 96th birthday with all my cousins and whatnot in Arizona. It will be interesting to see how my wiggly, constantly moving child does on the plane. Thankfully there is a 3 hour layover on our first stop.

Teagen now crawls for real instead of lurching, she also sits herself consistently and pulls up on the furniture to cruise. It makes life much more interesting. In someways it is easier because she is less frustrated because she is mobile and able to move herself, but it is a lot of work! We did manage to baby-proof one room in my grandmother's house (my other grandma who is only 88). The rest of the time I have to follow Teagen around and try to explain why we can't grab the ceramic horse from coffee table and throw it on the ground.

We have also entered the "ya-ya" stage. Teagen is in full babble mode now. She chatters up a storm and every once in a while a real word will sneak in. Besides signing milk she says "mum-mum" "up" "keke" (kitty) and will sign all done and outside. 

Have a good week everyone!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---wow, you are busy! But it sounds like a lot of fun things, too! I COMPLETELY understand about husbands sleeping in and how irritating that can be! DH is up with me most of the time, but occassionally if Camden's been up in the night or it's a weekend or something, DH will just lay there and sleep while I tend to Camden. . . Must be nice to have that OPTION to just stay in bed----I've NEVER gotten that opportunity since Camden has been born!
I'm planning on making DH get up and letting me sleep once Camden is done breastfeeding (which may be almost a year from now. . .but I like to dream ahead. ;) 

We're passing out candy tonight for Halloween. It's a bit past Camden's bedtime, but we're going to let him stay up a bit longer to see the costumes.

Kellen--I can't believe how mobile Teagen is! That's incredible! I hope everything goes okay on your trip and you just have a wonderful time!! Good job on the words, too!!

Camden has been getting up at 4:30 or 5:00 for the last two mornings. . .so I put him back down again after nursing. Today, he slept until 8:30a.m. --which never happens---so now, he's fighting his first nap of the day because his schedule is all messed up. .. . :( 

I'm also awaiting a contractor to get here to install a new floor and shower unit in our bathroom. . . he was supposed to call, but never has. .. He'd better not get here when my baby is sleeping. . . :growlmad:


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## SierraJourney

Does anyone know of a good way to get rid of that Mommy "pouch" of skin leftover from the pregnancy? I'm down to my pre-pregnancy weight, and have been doing sit-ups, but I can't seem to get rid of that loose skin in the front of my belly. Have any of you been successful getting rid of that? Or is it here to stay?


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## wamommy

Sierra, I hope the contractor doesn't interrupt Camden's nap! That's so tough when they get off schedule.

As far as the mommy pouch... to be honest I had a really easy time with it after DD#1, and was thinner than pre-pregnancy (without pouch!) after only a month or 2. With DD#2 it took a little longer, and out of frustration and because of a history of issues with food I dropped way below pre-preg weight into a dangerous territory, which got rid of the mommy pouch again, but made my whole family concerned. Looking at pictures from after DD#2, I see why. I think I was about 120 pounds (at 5'8", with a large bone structure). Luckily I snapped out of it, and was a healthy weight when I got pregnant with Max. Unfortunately, I never lost all of Max's weight before this baby, and I have that skin/flab around the middle that you're talking about. I can't get rid of it now, and wish I'd tried harder before getting pregnant! I thought I had all the time in the world, lol... so the short answer is, I have no idea. I know you can't spot reduce, so situps will help tone the muscles underneath, but the layer of skin or fat on top has to be reduced by losing overall body fat. Since you're at prepreg weight, it sounds like you've already done that! I'd say give it time. The more time that goes by, the flatter it will be. 

I still haven't quite accepted that I'm pregnant again. :blush: I was going to tell my mom last week, and then again last night, but chickened out both times. I haven't even told my step daughter yet! Luckily I'm not really showing, so it's easy to hide. I just look a bit like I ate too many doughnuts... :haha: I have to tell my Mom before Thanksgiving, though, because in a month I'm sure I won't be able to hide it. Sigh... 

I'm off to help out with a Kindergarten "Harvest Party" at my daughter's school. They have outlawed unhealthy treats, so I'm bringing Gogurts and Apple Juice, lol. Luckily the kids can all pig out on candy later!

A night at home handing out candy sounds lovely! We'll be trick-or-treating in the rain, here. yay...


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! I just want it to go away! Part of the problem is my jeans that are all low-rise, so I've got muffin top all of the time---and I used to be really flat-tummied, so all of my tops are form-fitting, which doesn't work as well with the muffin top! :haha:

Oh--I'm sure your family members will be so thrilled when you tell them you are pregnant! Who doesn't love another little baby?! Sending hugs to you---you can do it!!! :hugs: How have you been feeling, by the way?

It's raining here, too--I feel bad for the poor kids (and parents!) who will be out in it! My 4 year old niece is Ariel (frmo The Little Mermaid) this year and is stopping by. She is so excited because she says her costume is "BEAUTIUL!" :) I love kids. :) 

Contractor never showed up. . . apparently he plans on coming tomorrow and working from 10-5. . .which means my baby probably won't sleep from 10-5. . . Argh. . . .but, I'll be glad with a new floor and tub unit. .. just wish my baby was a more sound sleeper!!

Have fun at the Harvest Party!!!


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## DragonflyWing

Hey everybody, sorry I haven't been around all week. I'm still sort of recovering from my business trip...I haven't been able to catch up on sleep, though, so I'm still dragging. My milk supply dropped by about 30% from the stress and the long stretches I couldn't pump while I was gone, and I haven't had much luck getting it back up yet. We're burning through our freezer stash much too quickly for my liking. Fortunately we started out with 1500+ oz! I had planned on donating the majority of it, but now it looks like we'll need it ourselves.

Halloween was uneventful, it rained all day so we only had a handful of trick-or-treaters. The babies enjoyed their costumes...Lily was a lady bug, and Gunnar was Tigger. I'll post pictures below. Any other costume pictures to show off? I'd love to see them!

As for the "mommy pouch," I have more of a suitcase than a pouch! After the twins were born, I lost all my pregnancy weight plus 5 pounds within 2 weeks. Since then, I've somehow managed to gain about 15 pounds, even though I am (was) making so much milk! Also, my body shape seems to be changing, and all my weight is accumulating in my middle. DH keeps mentioning it :wacko: and asked me to start exercising and eating better...so apparently he doesn't much like the way I look right now. 

We had a big screaming fight on Sunday, the worst we've ever had. He basically said he does everything and I do nothing, and I never do what I say I'll do, and I don't spend enough time with the kids because I'm "either sleeping or working 90% of the time." Also, that my convenience comes before anyone or anything else, and the next time he sees me playing with my phone when there's something else that needs to be done, he's going to lose his temper and smash it to pieces. He also said my cat has to be gone by the end of the week or he's going to "get rid of her" himself. 

I was crying my eyes out, couldn't believe he would say those things to me. Later, he apologized for hurting my feelings, and then said "I'm just not used to being disappointed in you. This is new to me."

Like that made me feel a whole lot better. :cry:

The worst part was that I had Gunnar in my arms when we were fighting. At that point we weren't really yelling, but I was crying and we were talking loudly. Poor little guy kept looking back and forth between us with a worried look on his face, then buried his head in my neck and went to sleep. I never want that to happen again. 

I've been trying to take some of DH's concerns to heart and doing more housework and generally trying to be more helpful. He seems to have mostly forgotten about the fight and he has been more affectionate...but I can't seem to forget the awful things he said, and I'm having trouble feeling anything positive toward him. About 2 hours after the fight, he was already suggesting we have sex. I wasn't really in the mood, surprisingly.

We're not TTC anymore. Not for a while at least.
 



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## helena

Sorry to hear about the fight dragon, your babies look adorable though!!
Hope u ok.


I will write more soon ladies, just so tired after traveling last week, worrying about my parents, and hosting halloween party here for 13 kids. Must be crazy.

Xxx


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## helena

A bit late. But happy halloween from France! Two skeletons and a mike wazowski here.
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/image.jpg


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## wamommy

What cute pictures, ladies!! I like the costumes almost as much as I LOVE the smiles! What beautiful children you have! :) I'm a bit jealous! I didn't dress Max up this year. We had so many events to go to, and Max was NOT a fan of being a pumpkin, so he spent Halloween in a fuzzy sleeper. :dohh: My girls were Tinkerbell and the pink Power Ranger.

Dragon, I'm so sorry about your fight. I don't know your whole situation, but I know that it makes me sad to see your feelings repeatedly hurt. :( I know your DH usually apologizes (or at least "gets over" the fight much faster than you do) but it sounds like damage is already done by then. I'm so truly sorry.

Kellen, I hope your trip is going well! I can't wait to hear how Teagen handled all of the excitement.


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## helena

Could it all be down to sleep deprivation? It does awful things to a person. And twins obviously means double the night wakings...
Hoping a big sleep is all that is needed. Is there anyone who could have the twins over night for one night? Nice dinner, glass of wine and sleep?...
X


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## DragonflyWing

I've been getting up with the kids if they wake up, so he's been getting plenty of sleep. 

We made some changes this past week and he seems happier. Unfortunately, my cat is being rehomed.


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## SierraJourney

A little late, but love the costumes ladies! So sweet! What beautiful kiddos! :)

Dragon---I am so sorry about your cat. :( I couldn't imagine having to rehome my kitty. :( :( :( :(

Must be something in the air with DH's. . . .mine hasn't spoken to me for three days now (except for a few necessary things--ie "the car won't start", "I'm going out for a bit"). we got in a stupid argument because he promised he wouldn't go to this hunting trip (aka---basically a childish party in the woods. . .very little hunting is done), then on Sunday he asked me if he could go. I told him that he made a promise not to go to it after we had Camden (I believe I even posted this last year when we had the SAME argument!). . .and he was going back on his word. So, he's mad at me for not saying, "Oh yes, honey, go ahead!" :dohh: And I don't feel like talking anyways because he went on to say some hurtful things about never going out and having to be home all of the time. . .bleh bleh bleh. . .when he has gone to several things lately---including a 3 day event recently! Whereas I'm home with the baby. . .ALL DAY LONG. . .EVERY DAY. I've accepted it, that the baby has changed my life---I'm sacrificing for him and for our family. DH seems to think he should be able to do exactly what he's always done and MORE because he needs to "be himself" instead of just a dad. I understand that desire, but it just isn't practical with our high-needs baby. Argh. . . .so frustrating. Meanwhile, I've been falling asleep right after I put Camden down because I'm EXHAUSTED because I'm doing all of the baby care from 5a.m.-7p.m. when he goes to bed because DH is sulking so much he isn't helping. :( And, on top of that, the time change has been awful and Camden has been getting up at 4:30 recently! :( Not to mention, I'm still workin full time from home (8-5 every day, sometimes more hours) and going into work for meetings. I'm TIRED. :( 

Hopefully this will pass quickly and our DH's will come around.. .


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## helena

Glad things are a bit better dragon xxx
Oh no Sierra, must be omething in the air!? Oh I hope it's sorted soon.

I have a spa day on reserve fom when DH had some time out. I am owed. I don't need it yet, but its nice knowing it is in the bank :) maybe if DH does his trip you can have a treat too?

Kiara's bizzare teeth / fangs:
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/Snapbucket/th_E6933ACB.jpg


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## SierraJourney

A spa day sounds lovely helena! I think I might have to book me one soon---if DH goes to his day out! Good idea! As it is,I plan on going out tonight to get myself some ice cream once Camden goes to bed! :haha: I've been needing it! lol

Oh my gosh---those teeth are crazy! how different all babies are! I think they're cute! :)


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## helena

I ind It's often easier to let DH do his him-time thing, but to just make sure you get your treat ready and on reserve when you need it. That way everyone gets something nice and maybe a bit of tension can be let out....so your DH will know he can have his day out..but it'll cost him a day out for you too ;)
Yum, icecream! i vote chocolate chip ;) enjoy! Xx

Maybe all the recent stresses are all due to tiredness, we are 9 months into this tiring but amazing adventure :) I know I am starting to get so fed up with night wakings...
Kiara still feeds once in the night, anyone else?


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## wamommy

I love Kiara's teeth!! They are adorable. :D Max finally has his bottom 2. He has already taken to biting my shoulder when he's upset... lol. Max still wakes up 3-5 times a night for feedings. :( I don't know how to break him of it!

Sierra, I'm so sorry to hear about a rift with your DH. How tough it is, isn't it?? I remember your fight about it last year, and I remember him saying that it was "just until the baby came." I would be irritated too. I see how he might feel the need to reconnect with his "old self," but what about you? I'm certain there are countless things you've given up (sleep, free time, your boobs) for Camden, and it seems that it's easy for DHs to forget that just because we're Moms, we MISS our old selves too!! I hope it all works out soon. :hugs:

Helena, I think a spa day sounds AMAZING, and I agree that Sierra deserves one too! I wish we all lived close together and could have a fabulous lady's day. 

I've been so stressed the last few days that I feel physically ill. We've had a couple of financial things come up that have made me really concerned about how we'll make ends meet this month and next. Christmas is coming too, and we can't exactly tell the kids, "oops, sorry... Santa is broke this year!!" I'm sure we'll work it out, but I'm a bit livid at DH for insisting on handling all of the finances, and then leaving us in a tight spot. I feel helpless. 

Adding to that, I'm panicking about the new baby. I'm already SO stretched thin. Our house is completely unacceptable (I like things neat and tidy and I have NO time to deep clean.) I do a whirlwind toy pickup each night and make sure the kitchen is clean, but things like the soap scum on the shower door and dusty base boards start to make my skin crawl and my anxiety go through the roof. We need our carpet cleaned. I need a maid... and a nanny... and a really awesome therapist... :haha: I suppose it would help if DH would clean... anything. I think he's cleaned a toilet ONE TIME since I met him. Ugh.

Ok, enough complaining. I'm going to make a pumpkin spice decaf coffee and relax a bit before helping DD with her homework and starting dinner.


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## SierraJourney

helena----we haven't had any night feeding, but Camden has been getting up at 3:30 or 4 for a couple weeks, babbling and screeching in his crib. .. he eventually goes back to sleep, but we're awake for a good hour or so while he's in there playing away! :)

Thanks wamommy---that's hitting me really hard lately--the fact that I've given up EVERYTHING. I love my son so much, but that's all I am lately---a mom. I take care of a baby, clean the house, work, etc. I don't get to be ME ever. :( 

Wouldn't that be awesome to all have a ladies day together?! Ahhh--if only we lived closer!

I'm so sorry to hear that finances are tight---that's so very hard! We live pretty frugally due to tight finances, too---I understand how stressful it can be. Well, here's hoping a mysterious and helpful money check comes in the mail this week for you! (I always tell DH that that is what I'm hoping for when I check the mail! :haha: Never happens, but it's still fun checking the mail! :) )

And I TOTALLY hear you about the baseboards! My entire house is filled with WHITE baseboards---that NEVER get cleaned anymore. . .and it's tearing me up! AND the scummy showers! It's funny because I wanted to take a bath last night, but had one look at the tub part of the shower, and was like "Heck no!!" lol And I didn't have the energy to clean it before a bath! :) 

I think we're all just going to have to deal with the dirty houses. . . as much as it sucks. :( 

I hope you enjoy your coffee! I'm counting down the minutes until I can get my ice cream! lol I really don't need any ice cream---still trying to get my flubby belly in shape. . . but in a way, I *need* ice cream! :dohh:


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## Kellen

Hey all. typing this on the Kindle because the computer is still out for repair. It sounds like the men are PMSing all of a sudden.

Sierra I remember you posting about this issue last year that DH had said omce you were pregnant he would stop but went any ways and that he wouldnt go this year. that is difficult. pretty much the same fight I had with DH whem he went and got hammered on his birthday. I hope everything turns out okay.

Dragon I am sorry your DH has been saying a lot of hurtful things recently. I think maybe it is a good thing to step back from TTC right now. Sorry to hear about your kitty. i know how hard it was to rehome ours but she was beginning to jump on Teagen who was only three months.She had been our baby for two years and wasnt fond of the competition.

Wamommy your life is just crazy. Bummer about the finances. DH used to do ours but somehow over thr past three years I found myself in charge of them.

Helena Kiaras fangs are adorable. and your kids could all be models. i am so jealous of your oldests sons haie. it is gorgeous. That is a great idea you gave about having a day off held in reseve.

Tomorrow is Teagens nine month well baby check. i am excited to see what the doctor thinks. I also want to ask about what type of food I should be giving her. Since we are still BFing I am curious to know if she needs three meals a day or if I can continue winging it. my mom is convinced that Teagen wakes at night because she doesnt get enough solids. heronly infant experience was me and she did formula due to me having a horrible latch and going from seven to four pounds.

The trip was okay. Teagen HATED the rental car seat. it wasnt as padded as the one we have at home. She was the sweetest and most mellow baby for my grndm. She also slept like a trooper on the plane. She scared her three year old cousin by chasing him around trying to kiss hi. lol. she loved on the dogs and would crawls over to the greyhound whenever she had the opportunity. Sleep sucked. I was Oing during the trip which always makes my nipples uper sore and increases my nursing aversion at night to where I am unable to feel remotely comfortable if T is nursing... Co sleeping at the hotel meant she thought the buffet was open all night. If she wasnt nursing my grandmother was either snoring or going to the bathroom or asking me if Teagen was sleeping okay.
When we got home Teagen fell asleep at 2:30pm and didnt wake up until 6the next morning. Unfortunately she can pull herself into a tandingposition at night. This means no more letting her fuss because she is standng and I am afraid she is sleepy and will let go and crack her head on the crib. She briefly nurses twice a night.


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## SierraJourney

How'd Teagen's checkup go? Camden's is next week---I'm excited to see how much he weighs. I'm also going to be asking about food--I hear so many conflicting opinions on what to give him/what not to give him. . .so I want the doctor's view on things. We've taken food slowly with Camden, but I don't want to take it SO slowly that he's still eating baby food a year from now! :dohh:


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm glad your trip went relatively well, although the sleep issues sound like NO fun. I'm excited to hear about Teagen's 9-month appointment too! Max's isn't until November 20... :( I always forget how far out our Doctor books and I didn't call until last week so that's the soonest they could do. I'll be asking about food too, and also about whether or not it's normal that Max seems to have NO interest in crawling at all, let alone standing or walking. I'm hoping by the 20th he's made some serious strides so I'm not too concerned. I think my girls just did things super early, so my scale for when he should do things is a bit skewed. 

Sierra, we're moving slowly with food, too. Max had an early minor reaction to sweet potato, so we're taking it really slow with introducing new things. We try a new food about every other day. At least now I can squish off a tiny bite of my food and feed it to him. I'm just paranoid about salt. I guess that's one thing to add to the nine-month exam question list! 

Dragon, I totally missed the post about your cat. I am so very sorry. I had to rehome 2 cats years ago that I absolutely loved (boyfriend at the time and I were moving in together and he was allergic) and I'm still not totally over it. I think it hurts me because the guy was totally not worth it, and I would trade him for them in half a heart beat. Obviously it's different with your babies, and it sounds like you did the right thing. Still, I know it's hard. :hugs: :hugs:


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## SierraJourney

Don't worry wamommy-- Camden has absolutely no interest in crawling either.. I've heard that boys go much slower than girls... so haven't been to worried. :flower:

I'm paranoid about salt too!! I haven't given Camden any of my food yet... just baby food and a few organic vegetables cooked and chopped into small pieces. 

Any one else's lo have no interest in feeding themselves? Camden will play with his food but never bring it to his mouth... I have to spoon feed everything for him..


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## wamommy

Max loves to feed himself finger foods (squares of cheese, cheerios, peas) but only about half makes it into his mouth. :haha: His favorite thing on earth is plain oatmeal right now, though. I think he likes that it has a little bit of texture? Second place is probably banana pieces, but small enough that he can just shovel them in. :wacko:

Sierra, I'm glad to hear Camden is happy to sit and relax like Max! I have heard that boys are slower. I'm not too worried about it, because very few kindergarteners go to school not knowing how to walk! He'll get it eventually. In the mean time, it's kind of nice having him immobile for the moment. :haha:


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## SierraJourney

I wish Camden would at least *try* to feed himself. I'm not quite sure what to do. . .he has baby apple puffs to eat, but just plays with them and never puts them in his mouth---but he will whine and whine until *I* put them in his mouth! It's so frustrating because I think he'd be much happier if he could do it himself. 

Sometimes I think Camden THINKS he's crawling. . .he'll be on his belly and kick his legs---looks just like he thinks he's cruising along! lol. He hasn't gotten the concept that his legs need to be bent underneath him! :haha:

We are 99% cloth diapers now (except for night time diaper, which hopefully will be switched to cloth this week). I absolutely LOVE it---it's already starting to save us money and it just makes so much sense to me. DH likes it except when Camden has a poop and he has to change it---then he curses cloth diapers! :rofl: (We have liners, so it's basically you just throw the poop in the toilet or trash, but he still doesn't like that part). :)

So, my contractor didn't show up the other day. . .so he's planning on showing up today. Which is awful because Camden is refusing a nap this morning. . .and he definitely won't nap when the contractor is here making noise. . .so this should be interesting. . :(

wamommy--have you told your mom and family about this pregnancy yet? If so, how'd it go? How's the bump looking?


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## wamommy

SierraJourney said:


> wamommy--have you told your mom and family about this pregnancy yet? If so, how'd it go? How's the bump looking?

I haven't told them yet!! :dohh: :dohh: DH wants to wait until Thanksgiving, but I think it might be extra shocking if I tell them when I'm 18-19 weeks along! I just need to suck it up and call my Mom. Part of the problem is that I don't see my Mom that often, because she's so incredibly busy with her job. I'm lucky to see her once every 3 months, even though she lives 1 hour away. :( It probably will end up being Thanksgiving... yikes!

My bump is growing a little bit. I'm WAY smaller than I was with Max. Weird, huh? Maybe it's another girl? I'm at that awkward "fat? stage where the tummy hasn't rounded out yet and no one can tell I"m pregnant. I just look chubby!

*The first pic was 10 weeks, the second was this morning at 15+1!*
 



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## DragonflyWing

Wow, wamommy, you look absolutely amazing! I can not BELIEVE you have three kids and are 15 weeks pregnant with your fourth, you look positively svelte!

I'm honestly really jealous...I didn't even look that good before I had kids :wacko: :haha:


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## Kellen

Wamommy - You look amazing! I certainly wouldn't think that you are chubby at all and certainly wouldn't expect you to be 15 weeks pregnant.

Sierra - Teagen loves to feed herself. My mom bought her this spoon and fork set that are self-righting so when she uses utensils she can't spill everything on the floor and herself. We are pretty exploratory with foods. Tonight we had pot roast, potatoes, carrots and pears for dessert. Teagen got to sample everything but the potatoes. For breakfast this morning she ate a slice of toast, a cup of strawberry oatmeal and part of a banana. For lunch she snacked on avocado and sweet potato.

On a non-baby note I really dislike my professor this quarter. I have had him before and he has a HUGE ego and it annoys the heck out of me. He is a non-native English speaker and he fraking nitpicks everything. We have to listen to weekly summaries, read his reviews of other people's papers and respond to his every post or we don't get credit. Listening to him drives me insane! Honestly, this grown man's voice is higher pitched than mine.

In other news DH is coming home for good next week. He has finished his studies and now just needs 90 days out at sea so he can take license. He has been offered a nice sea-going job, but it doesn't start until the end of January. :( But he doesn't have to go back to the same store he was working at as another nearby store has offered him a management position that he is going to take.

To those who have non-self-mobile babies: Enjoy. Today while fixing lunch I left Teagen's fork and a couple pieces of avocado on the couch. She was happily playing on the floor. When I turned around she had stood herself up on her tip-toes on the couch and was trying to stab the avocado with the fork.

Oooh... 9 month update. She is 30 inches tall and 20lb 6.5oz. So 95% for height and 75% for weight. The pediatricians says that not only are her two top teeth about ready to poke through, but her molars are near the surface too which is why she has been complaining about her ears hurting.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--I agree with the others--there is nothing "fat" about that---I barely see a bump there! You look terrific! If you don't decide to tell people until Thanksgiving, you'd be able to hide it, I think! But, yes, it's hard because you would be so far along. . . but ultimately, it's your and DH's choice. ..so if you decide to wait until Thanksgiving, that's okay! :)

Kellen---I admire how diverse Teagen's food choices are! That's great that she can feed herself! I might have to look into the self-righting spoons.. . Camden is very interested in spoons, so maybe that would help!

I'm sorry about your professor---thank doesn't sound fun at all! :( It makes school that much harder when the professor is hard like that. . . .argh. . .hopefully this class flies by quickly for you!

I really can't imagine life with a mobile baby right now. It's just SO easy to sit him down and know he won't move! :haha: How do you go to the bathroom without her running away!? lol I plop Camden down on the bathroom rug while I'm going to the bathroom. . . (is that weird?!). . .so I can watch him and know he's not going to cry!

Aww poor Teagen--getting molars already?! Oh my gosh. . . what is the "normal" age to get molars?! I thought it was like 18 months or something. . .such a fast-paced child, that Teagen---what a cutie! :) And TALL--I tink Camden was 23inches last time we got him measured. . .I'm not expecing that much taller this time. lol :)


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## Kellen

tip of the day. use coconut oil to clean shower doors. wipe on and then removewih a papertowel. super easy and your doors will sparkle while smelling delicious as well.

teagen is fascinated by people using the bathroom. she has no shame and will purposefully crawl after people to listen to them use the potty. because i dontlike cleaning poopy clothdiapers i simply sit her on the toliet when i know she needs to poop. she loves it and loves to watvh as it flushes away.

last night whenever she woke up she didnt cry. she would sit up lokk around and then stand up and peer over the edge of her crib all the while saying mama. how could i deny that?


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## Kellen

tip of the day. use coconut oil to clean shower doors. wipe on and then removewih a papertowel. super easy and your doors will sparkle while smelling delicious as well.

teagen is fascinated by people using the bathroom. she has no shame and will purposefully crawl after people to listen to them use the potty. because i dontlike cleaning poopy clothdiapers i simply sit her on the toliet when i know she needs to poop. she loves it and loves to watvh as it flushes away.

last night whenever she woke up she didnt cry. she would sit up lokk around and then stand up and peer over the edge of her crib all the while saying mama. how could i deny that?


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## SierraJourney

Definitely just wrote coconut oil on my grocery list! Thanks for the tip! I've also heard it's a good natural diaper rash cream. . . might try it for that too! :)

Sooo cute about Teagen last night---what a sweetie!


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## Kellen

i swaer by coconut oil. we use it as diaper rash cream nipple soother and in a lot of our foods. instead of butter when i cook for teagen i use coconut oil. also it really makes cakes a whatnot really fluffy if you bakewith it.we buy a huge jar of it at coastco andit lasts about a month. today we sauteed chicken with garlic and pepper for lunch and substituted coconut oil for the normal oliveoil. teagen used her razor sharp bottom teeth to shred almost half of a piece of chicken.

in other news i wil be getting up around 3m and driving to portland to retrieve my husband. so excited to see him!and our laptop is ready for pick up tonight.


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## SierraJourney

YAY for DH coming home and the laptop getting fixed! :) :) :)


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## wamommy

Thank you so much ladies for the kind comments! I think any day now I'll absolutely explode (I have gained 10 pounds in a random second tri month each time) so I'll enjoy being on the small side for now! At least it will help me keep it a secret until Thanksgiving. :haha:

I can't believe how big Teagen is! What a tall girl! I can't believe how mobile she is, and that so many teeth are coming in. Thanks for the coconut oil info, too. I've been looking for a more natural solution for the shower, since I can't breathe fumes. I'll try it!

I just got home from an obgyn appointment. It was just a basic physical. I got the flu shot (thimerasol free) and they did the Verifi test, which is some new test that can detect all of the trisomy abnormalities (down syndrome, edwards and patau). I'm a bit nervous about the results, but it's a heck of a lot better than an amnio. I was ordered this test because of "advanced maternal age." yay... :dohh: At least it will put my mind at ease (I hope!). The baby's heartbeat was 157, and my uterus is measuring 17 weeks, so I have no idea where it's hiding. Thank you Dad for the tall genes.

I hope you all have exciting weekend plans! Kellen, I'll bet you're SO excited to have your DH home. Do you all have plans for Thanksgiving already?


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, that's so cool that you sit her on the toilet to poop...I bet she'll potty train really early!

Sierra- when I have to bring a baby in the bathroom with me, I put them in the bathtub! :haha: I set the baby tub on the floor, and they sit in it and play with their bath toys while they wait for me. They love it! So far I haven't had to bring both of them in the bathroom with me, but if I did I'd probably put one of them in the walker, because they don't both fit in the baby tub at the same time.

The twins haven't started crawling yet, but they are both very mobile anyway! They scootch, roll, and army crawl anywhere they want to go. We have hardwood floors, and Lily likes to push with her hands and slide backward on her belly all around the living room :haha: it's so funny to watch. They're both sitting up on their own very well now, and almost never fall over. For a few days after they started sitting, they didn't know how to lay down without just falling backward, so we had a lot of bumped heads at first. Now they've learned how to slither onto their bellies from a sitting position...but I still put a pillow or blanket behind Lily because she occasionally throws herself backward and smacks her head on the floor. :wacko:

Gunnar is a total daredevil! He has no fear at all, and is very rough-and-tumble...he tends to lead with his head so he has several bumps and bruises on his noggin from bouncing off the floor, chairs, tables, etc. He even threw himself off the couch when DH had his back turned for one second. He never seems to care and rarely cries when he crashes. We found out he was too big for the boucy seat when he flipped it over on top of himself, and we figured out he needs the 5 point restraint when he wiggled out of his high chair onto the floor (thank goodness we had it lowered close to the floor, or he would have fallen 3 feet rather than 10 inches).

Lily still only has her two bottom teeth in the front, but Gunnar has 5 teeth now! Both front teeth on the top and bottom, and one incisor on top. He's been pretty miserable with it...we've had to give him Tylenol or ibuprofen several times over the past two weeks. Three of those teeth came in within about 5 days, poor little guy.

Can't believe they're going to be 11 months in a week!


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## helena

wamommy said:


> SierraJourney said:
> 
> 
> wamommy--have you told your mom and family about this pregnancy yet? If so, how'd it go? How's the bump looking?
> 
> I haven't told them yet!! :dohh: :dohh: DH wants to wait until Thanksgiving, but I think it might be extra shocking if I tell them when I'm 18-19 weeks along! I just need to suck it up and call my Mom. Part of the problem is that I don't see my Mom that often, because she's so incredibly busy with her job. I'm lucky to see her once every 3 months, even though she lives 1 hour away. :( It probably will end up being Thanksgiving... yikes!
> 
> My bump is growing a little bit. I'm WAY smaller than I was with Max. Weird, huh? Maybe it's another girl? I'm at that awkward "fat? stage where the tummy hasn't rounded out yet and no one can tell I"m pregnant. I just look chubby!
> 
> *The first pic was 10 weeks, the second was this morning at 15+1!*Click to expand...

How can you have a baby measuring 17 weeks in there!? Amazing! Xx

Two more top teeth (3rd and 4th top ones) coming in here, its not much fun.

Lovely thing happened yesterday..Kiara started properly playing games with her brother. It was mostly a game of chase with Kiara giggling and crawling away like mad and her smallest big brother crawling after her. Loved it!

Yay to fixed computers :)


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## SierraJourney

That's so cute helena! Makes me want a sibling for Camden. . .:blush:

wamommy--Thanksgiving is at my house this year. It's usually at my folks' house, but long-story-short, they got a divorce last year and my mum moved into a really tiny house. . .so it doesn't fit the family anymore. So, Thanksgiving will be at my house this year. There will be 9 adults, and 3 kids here total. I think it'll be fun, but busy! How do you all handle naptimes when it's a holiday and/or you're out? We try to stick to a proper schedule here, but I know it won't be able to happen on Thanksgiving with all of the commotion. I doubt Camden will sleep at all during the day. .so am kind of gearing myself up for a crabby baby. I feel bad, but he's not one to sleep when he hears other stuff going on. . . What do you do?


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## helena

Sierra, we still have no strict schedule here. Nap time happens whenever she gets tired...she is naturally transitioning from 2 to 1 naps a day at the moment, depending on if we are out and about in the car (she can't resist a snooze in the car!) Our one constant is bedtime - 7pm, she can't stay up any longer or she screams and is literally dropping off, wherever we are.
If we are at someone's house etc and she needs to nap in the day she will do so easily in the baby carrier or sometimes her car seat. Even in a busy noisy environment she will doze off in the carrier. Especially on my back. (Ergo carrier).

Thanks giving with lots of family round sounds fun :)..if a little stressful :)


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, the twins sound like they're doing so well! Isn't it funny how different they are already? It's amazing how quickly their first birthday is approaching!! :)

Helena, it's so cute that your boys play games with Kiara! I'll bet it's so fun to watch. :) My 5-year-old does SO well with Max, making him giggle with funny faces or jumping around. My 4-year-old is still a little unpredictable with him, and I'm not completely convinced he won't get hurt (even on accident through rough play) so I watch her really closely when she plays with him. Her new thing is bringing him bits of food, which makes me SO nervous, because she doesn't know what he's allowed to have!

Sierra, Thanksgiving is so much work! You're brave to put on the big show this year. I did it a few years back and haven't volunteered since... :haha: It's actually pretty fun, and totally rewarding, I just don't have the time or money this year. It's going to be at my Mom's house this time. I'm happy to show up, pies in hand, and help with the last-minute cooking. I also have the option of leaving when Max blows a gasket too. As for naps, we don't really work on a schedule either. Like Helena, Max has transitioned to 1 nap most days, and he sort of decides on his own when he takes it. The car is always a safe bet, so I plan long errands for when I know he's sleepy. As for holidays, all bets are off. We just wing it. He may completely skip his nap, be a fuss monster, and drive me insane, but that's all part of the holidays. :dohh: Chances are high he'll sleep on the way up to my Mom's in the car so I won't have to worry about it. :D

Helena, I was going to buy an Ergo, since I HATE my Bjorn, but I figure it will be a waste of money now, since soon my tummy won't allow me to wear it. Should I buy one for the new baby? How do you like it??


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---well, I can't take all of the credit for Thanksgiving. . . my mum is actually coming down the day before and will be cooking the turkey. :haha: I'm a vegetarian and the thought of touching a raw turkey just is awful for me. . . lol. . . so my mommy is rescuing me! :rofl: 

I want an Ergo SO badly! DH says I can have one for when we go on vacation next summer. ..until then, I have the Bjorn, which has worked well be me, but Camden is getting rather large for it. . .

I just got back from Camden's 9 month appointment. . . slightly discouraged because the dr. says he should be pretty mobile by now. . . she kept talking about what to do when he's trying to climb stairs and stuff---and I'm like--he can't even SCOOT yet! She says he'll get there, but it's crazy that he "should" be doing so much by now, and he just sits in one spot! Also, she said that by this age, most babies are feeding themselves---which Camden won't do . . so I'm going to try to work on it more with him. . . but how can I force him?! 

He is 28 inches long, and 18 pounds 2 ounces. A bit small, but he's been small all along, so she said that's fine. :) Altogether, very healthy little guy. :flower:


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## wamommy

I'm so glad Camden is doing well! I wouldn't worry too much about how immobile he is. Max is the same way. I read the emails that update you on babies your baby's age, and I always feel like, "Waahhh? He should be pulling up on furniture? He can't even crawl!" They'll get there. :) Max's appointment isn't until next week, so I'm sure I'll deal with the same questions!

I hear you on the turkey thing. I'm not even a vegetarian and it grosses me out. I worked in a fine dining restaurant in college where they used to serve rabbit. Now THAT'S gross when you walk in on them prepping the little guys. 

I'm hoping DH surprises me with an Ergo for christmas, even though what I asked for is to have the carpets cleaned... lol. Fancy, huh?


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## SierraJourney

That's so funny because I thought about asking DH for an Ergo for Christmas, but knowing my DH, he would say "a present is something for YOU--not for Camden!" lol. . .but it's what I want! :)

Rabbit. . .that's just gross. . .


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## SierraJourney

Oh---and carpets being cleaned sounds like a fabulous idea! I wonder if DH would hire a maid to clean my house for me for Christmas?! That'd be AWESOME! :)


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## wamommy

Haha, for my birthday last year (which is 3 days after Max's) I got a co-sleeper, a set of bottles and a couple swaddle wraps! I don't think buying something for Max and giving it to me bothers DH at all... :haha: I have also seen Ergos slightly used on Craigslist and other online sites for only $50-$70! That's not too bad. 

I would LOVE a maid to clean my house, but a part of me is too embarrassed to have a stranger go through my house. I guess I'm too private of a person? I'd rather deal with my own mess... I just can't clean the carpets myself. I tried to rent a Rug Doctor (those ones at the grocery store that you rent over night) but it doesn't work at all. We have berber in the family room, and it's FILTHY. It really needs replacing, but I figure why do it when we have small kids at home that will just stain it anyway?? I'm just afraid to let Max play on the family room floor because it's so gross. I have to take him in the other room to let him have floor time. :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

I completely understand that. I'm that way, too, but the mess in my house has become so much that I would welcome someone in to clean it! lol. Or I just need a full day where DH takes Camden somewhere and I can clean all day long. . .Camden just gets too upset when he sees mommy but can't be near me because I'm cleaning. . . 

Yeah, sounds like a professional carpet cleaner is the way to go. . .It shouldn't be that much for one room, I wouldn't think---plus, they have deals quite often, so you could just catch a sale. ;)


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## helena

I love the ergo! Watch out for ones n eBay though - I saw something on tv about some being fakes and not safe at all.

I love it through, I love the flexibility of front or back carrying. The one problem with it is that you can't have them on the front facing out, they have to face in. Kiara likes that but I know some babies don't. Getting her onto the abck on my own took some practice and apparently I look very precarious but I haven't dropped her yet :)

I was lucky and bought it second hand from a friend.

We now have 6 teeth - top two middles finally broke through. They are small and there may be some more crying to be done yet but I am happy. It's like playing baby teeth bingo, I can't wait to get a full house and have it all over and done :). Funnily enough, my eldest has just lost one of his top middle teeth and the other is super wobbly. It's like one in, one out here :)

They eat lots of rabbit here.


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## wamommy

Thanks for the info about fake Ergos, Helena! I think I'll stick to local sellers or maybe even convince DH to spring for a new one (ya right! :haha:) He thinks all of the studies showing the correct hip placement of the new soft carriers (vs Bjorns) are bunk, and doesn't buy into it at all. SElfishly, I just think the bjorn is so darned uncomfy! I would also love the option of baby on back.

Helena, yay for new little teeth!! We still have only 2 here. :haha: Your oldest is only slightly younger than my oldest, and I didn't know they could start losing teeth this early! I better stay on the lookout for wobbly ones. How fun. :) I know that we watched a cartoon about the tooth fairy and DD started TRYING to wiggle teeth out so the tooth fairy would come... :dohh: I told her she wouldn't leave a dollar if you make your teeth fall out before they're ready. :haha:

So, I have apparently sprouted a bump overnight. Maybe it's bloat? Who knows, but I look 4 months along! I guess I AM 4 months along, but you know what I mean...lol. Luckily I finally found the perfect maternity jeans! It only took 4 pregnancies to find them! They're from H&M, and there was literally ONE pair left in the store. They were a little big, so I went to another H&M a half hour away and bought the ONE pair in the correct size there, too! Now I have one that fits now, and one for when I gain some weight. I'm so excited! They're actually long enough, and don't fall down. It's a miracle!! :yipee:


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## Kellen

Hello everyone!

Life has been a little bit crazy here, but in a good way. I drove up to Portland early last Saturday morning and met DH at my uncle's house. My uncle and aunt are rather thrifty people and the inside of their house was a balmy 48 degrees. We turned on the heat and went out to breakfast. When we got back it was up to 58. Tried to nap with Teagen... everyone was shivering. Long story short we ended up coming home the same day. Teagen was a trooper as we stopped at a couple of playgrounds along the way and let her run around.

My mom had knee surgery on Monday and is currently high as a kite on morphine, which is fairly hilarious. On Tuesday DH and I went and bought a new-used vehicle to replace our stolen car. We ended up with a Saturn Vue which is a lot roomier than our car was, but still gets fairly decent gas consumption. I also posted my motorcycle on Craigslist because I just don't have the time for it. If I want to go riding I'll just take DH's.

Yesterday DH and my dad went and picked up 5 chickens and a chicken coop. Today we go pick up two four month old sheep whethers. This is what happens when your mom has knee surgery and way too much time to browse Craigslist. DH and my dad had to clean out on of the stalls in the barns and buy supplies to create a yard for the chickens to run around in. Teagen hasn't seen the chickens yet.

Still only two teeth here, but massive teething symptoms. Poor baby is trying to bring in her molars and top two teeth all at once. She is also working on cutting out her morning nap and taking a long afternoon nap around 1 or 2. I just follow her tired cues rather than watching the clock.

Wamommy - I would look at Groupons for your area. That is how I got our carpets cleaned before the big move. I think it ended up being $45 for three rooms and a hallway.

Sierra - How is the night time cloth diapering working or have you transitioned yet? We are still using a disposable as Teagen is a heavy wetter when she first wakes up.


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## helena

Fnally i have time to write properly!


yaaaay for jeans that fit wamommy! Oh I so remember that feeling of constantly pulling up my trousers. Urgh. You must feel great when you wear them :) how's any sickness, fatigue etc going? Oh I can't imagine it all now. I guess the second tri blooming period should be coming soon?

Kellen, we have chickens! We did have three this morning, but then we went out and left them (as usual) free ranging around our garden. When we got back my eldest said "daddy, look at that big bird!" And a big bird, maybe a buzzard, flew away revealing a dead and half eaten chicken!....poor chuck. It's all a lesson in life for the kids I guess, but we were so shocked a bird would come and attack them!!

Today DH and I took the kids into the city (Geneva) on the tram, for a little day out. We played at a park and then went to a restaurant for lunch. For my 3 year old and 5 year old this is a massive challenge - they never ever sit still and mostly don't listen to me and DH when we ask them to. Kiara was by far the easiest and best behaved child, but my 5 year old did great too. The 3 year old had a mini melt down as he was tired and managed to a break a glass (why would they serve kids juice in wine glasses!? Even if it was a short stem) but otherwise it was pretty much a success and I even managed to eat all my lunch. A miracle! I live in hope that one day we can visit a restaurant with it being the easy carefree eperience I dream of....one day. My 3 year old isnt a big fan of food in general so maybe when he grows and realizes how yummy it all is it will be easier. My eldest loved it since he announced the carbonara was better than mummy's...

DH is off out tonight, he has been invited to a students house warming party (the student is working at his place of work for a while). I can't help but laugh at the idea of him being the grandad (ok he is only 38 but these are early 20s students!) in the corner! Heheh. I will be interested to see how he gets on..though he is the so of person everyone likes so at least he will be a like able grandad lol. Personally. Am more than happy to stay home with a glass of wine and X factor :)
As DH left he joked that someone may announce "someone's dad is here to pick them up" as he walks in! I laughed a lot!! :)
We dug out all the strange bottles from the back of our drinks cupboard for him to take.. Lemoncello that had been lurking for years it seems and some other spirit that smells like cleaner. Surely students will make some cocktails or other!? Lol..

DH got a gold star this week for buying me the most beautiful bunch of flowers. Just for being a good mum and working hard he said. Bless him. I think he does worry about me being a bit down all the time because of my mum, and my stress levels are increased further as my eldest is mostly a big handful, but I thought that really sweet of him. I hardly ever get flowers.

Hope your weekends are going well xxx


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## wamommy

Kellen, it sounds like you've been very busy!! Congrats on the chickens and the new car. It sounds like a lot of positive things are going on in your life. That's very good to hear! :) Thanks for the tip on looking at Groupon, too. I found a cleaner that had a 50% off coupon, and I think we'll go with them after they give us an estimate. I'm sorry to hear you had to sell your motorcycle, but it sounds like you can get your "fix" using DH's. I sold mine when I was pregnant with DD#1. :( 

Helena, your DH sound positively amazing! Want to trade? :winkwink: I'm so glad he appreciates you. The trip to Geneva sounds amazing. It's funny that your 3-year-old doesn't much care for food. My DD#2 is the same. She likes to grab a bite or snack here and there, but never eats a whole meal. I'm hoping she grows into liking food!

As for the sickness, it's mostly passed. The fatigue is in full swing, though! I'm so exhausted. I'm hoping I get the 2nd tri boost of energy sometime very soon. I could use it. We finally told DH's daughter about the baby 2 days ago. She glared at me and grumbled, "congrats..." and then said, "so you're going to keep it?" I laughed and said "of course!" thinking it was a joke. She said, "there _are_ other options." DH and I got quiet and she got up and left the room. Ya, it didn't go so well... not that I expected it to. Sigh...

Dinner is about ready, so I better go! I hope everyone enjoys their weekend. :D


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## helena

Oh wamommy, what an awful response...how old is she? Guess she feels threatened.


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## wamommy

helena said:


> Oh wamommy, what an awful response...how old is she? Guess she feels threatened.

She'll be 17 at the end of this month. I think you're right that she feels threatened. She's never liked or been close to any of the little kids, and I think another one is exactly what she _doesn't_ want. It's a super long story, but her Mom abandoned her when she was 5 and left her with her Dad. I think in some ways she resents the relationship between me and the girls. I can understand why that would be hard, and why she would hold onto anger about her own childhood. I don't understand taking it out on children, though... :( She does mean things, like tell them there's no Santa, or that we can't afford to go to Disneyland because "Mom is too lazy to work and stays home all day." Ya, she can be really mean and awful. I try to understand where it's coming from, but to be honest at this point I'm just counting the months until she's off to college. :(


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## Kellen

Helena - Your husband sounds so sweet. Glad that you all had a fantastic time on your outing. Giving a child a wine glass just sounds like a recipe for disaster. There is a rather funny song from Veggie Tales Silly Songs with Larry called "Sippy Cup" that immediately comes to mind.

Wamommy - It sounds like your step-daughter has some serious issues. Just because she has history doesn't mean she should take it out on the little kids. That is just cruel. I don't blame you for counting the days.

I got go grocery shopping all by myself yesterday. I pawned Teagen off on DH while he was building the chicken's yard for their run. Helena, we have little flashing lights that we have installed that scare away predators. We mount them at different levels so that they affect raccoons, coyotes and birds of prey. So sorry that one of your chickens was killed. It is a hard lesson, but one that is learned sooner or later. We had barn cats that were constantly running out in the road and getting hit when I was growing up. It didn't affect me until I was 14 when my puppy, Anna, was run over (on purpose) by some local high school boys.

Teagen's sleep is currently awful. She goes to sleep like a dream, sleeps until 1 or 1:30, goes back to sleep until 3 or 3:30 and then refuses to sleep by herself. She'll go to sleep in her crib, but if you walk away she will wake up and stand up and stare. We tried leaving her, but she bounces up and down and knocked her head on the side of the crib. :( She finally went back to sleep at 5 when we caved and brought her to our bed. Yesterday I ordered the No Cry Sleep Solution book and am about halfway through it. Hopefully it will help.


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## helena

We have big waking and wanting to be held sleep issues. I blame teething. It will pass. I hope!? I can't remember the last time I didnt have to wake in the night. I think only once has Kiara gone until 6am. Now she usually wakes around 11, then again 4 ish when she may be awake for up to an hour chattering..Urgh. Tired isn't the word. 

(Sorry wamommy, I bet you really know the meaning of TIRED? :hugs: Xxxx )


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## Kellen

Teagen seems to go to sleep around 6:45-7ish, then wake up at 11:30 for a feed, sleep until 2:30 or 3 and then want to be WITH mommy. Daddy just doesn't cut it... even though he is trying. Only one nap here today so DH is dealing with a fussy girl. Had a great time at the park. Now I'm fixing dinner and putting clean sheets on the bed.


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## helena

Kellen that is exactly how Kiara is when she is unwell or teething. Exactly.


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## helena

wamommy said:


> helena said:
> 
> 
> Oh wamommy, what an awful response...how old is she? Guess she feels threatened.
> 
> She'll be 17 at the end of this month. I think you're right that she feels threatened. She's never liked or been close to any of the little kids, and I think another one is exactly what she _doesn't_ want. It's a super long story, but her Mom abandoned her when she was 5 and left her with her Dad. I think in some ways she resents the relationship between me and the girls. I can understand why that would be hard, and why she would hold onto anger about her own childhood. I don't understand taking it out on children, though... :( She does mean things, like tell them there's no Santa, or that we can't afford to go to Disneyland because "Mom is too lazy to work and stays home all day." Ya, she can be really mean and awful. I try to understand where it's coming from, but to be honest at this point I'm just counting the months until she's off to college. :(Click to expand...

Thought about counseling? Seems sad to take so much anger or bitterness on in life...sounds like her mum has a lot to answer for! I kind f feel sorry for her. But I don't have to live with her...:dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Awww wamommy---I'm sorry she responded in that way. I agree with helena---counseling might be a good idea if she'd be willing. Sounds like she has a big weight on her that counseling might be able to lift. And it would benefit you as well if she got some counseling! 

Sorry about the sleep trouble, ladies. . .Camden's been extra fussy lately (what's new :rofl: ) but so far sleeping like his usual self! 

Kellen--I am hoping to venture into nighttime cloth diapering this week. . . I've been a little wimpy about starting it because I do enjoy my sleep and he sleeps so well in a disposable. . .but I bought everything to try it, so I need to just bite the bullet and see if it works! I have hemp inserts I am going to be using in the nighttime diaper (I also use these in long car rides too because Camden tends to get compression leaks if he wets a lot all of the sudden!), and I also bought a fleece soaker cover and a wool soaker cover (basically like wool and fleece pants you pull on over top of the cloth diaper to catch any leaks when the cloth diaper gets full at night). So, I am well prepared, but just have to delve into it! :) I'll keep you posted! Have you bought any more diapers? I've become quite addicted to all of the cute cloth diaper patterns. . .so Camden has a good collection now and I only have to do laundry with them every 3 days. :)

We had a big storm here last night. . . tons of trees blown down and houses and business ruined. I stayed up half of the night worried a tree would fall on Camden's room! (We have some really old huge trees all around our house---they are gorgeous, but scary in wind storms!)


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## wamommy

Sierra and Dragonfly, I'm watching the news about the storms in Illinois. It's so sad and there is so much destruction! Neither of you are in Illinois are you?? I'm hoping not...

As for sleep issues, Max is his same old self. I have an admission, though... I've started taking him in my bed around 3am and that way I can feed him or rub his back to get him back to sleep without having to sit up for half an hour several times a night. Obviously I need to get him back into his own bed (especially with the new baby coming!) but for now it's really helping me get a bit more sleep!

I also put him in a 1-size-up diaper last night, and it held SO much pee! I don't have to change him twice during the night. I swear it was about 8 pounds when I changed it this morning. :haha:

Max is almost crawling now.. finally! :) He's rocking on his hands and knees and lurching a little. He usually ends up going backward, but at least it's a start! I watched a video of DD last night where she's walking around the house saying, "kitty? kitty?" at 10 months old!! I guess I didn't realize how early she walked and talked. I know Max is a bit "behind," but I'm not too worried. I think he's just spoiled because either his sisters or I go and get whatever he needs, so why learn to move? :haha:


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## Kellen

I don't think Max or Camden is all that far behind. I didn't bother to ever learn to crawl and simply "swam" around the house until I started cruising at 12 months and walking at 13. I also had delayed speech and real trouble pronouncing a lot of words until I was around 7 and started making a conscious effort to enunciate.

Teagen is still getting up around 5 times a night, but with the No Cry we have cut the awake time down to around 5-10 minutes before we can put her back in her bed. We have also started following a more structured bed time routine and dimming of the lights to help slow down for the night. We are only three days into phase one... Only a week to go. We'll see what happens as we move forward.

I too heard of the terrible tornado's in Illinois and Indiana. I bet it was scary, Sierra. I remember growing up in Missouri and having some pretty close calls. About a year after we moved back to California two different tornadoes hit two different properties that we had previously lived at. I hope everything is good in your neck of the woods, Dragon.

Teagen still only has her two bottom teeth. Her top gums are REALLY swollen and you can see where the molars are really wanting to pop through as well. Even being in what I can only imagine as terrible pain she is a sweet girl. She is having a lot of fun with our new animal additions. The two lambs we have have been christened "Larry" and "Bob" whereas the chickens remain nameless.


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## wamommy

LOL about "Larry" and "Bob" Kellen! We are Veggie Tales fans here, too. Oh great, now the theme song will be in my head all day... :dohh:

How do you like the No Cry book? I've heard of it and thought of trying it.


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## Kellen

So far the book has been awesome. Three days ago Teagen would cry and fight tooth and nail just to get jammies on because she didn't want to go to bed. Now we dim the light, put on jammies, nurse, sing and then put her in her crib. It takes anywhere from 15-30 min whereas it used to take 60-90 min just to calm her down.

I like it because it gives options of BF, bottles, pacifiers, co-sleeping, crib sleeping and any combination of those five. So even though she is waking 5 times a night still we are actually getting more sleep because it only takes 10 min tops to settle her back to sleep. There are also ways to get her to nap better once nighttime sleeping has been sorted out.


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## Kellen

We have another tooth! Well, almost. If she opens her mouth and you look up you can see the tip of the right front tooth finally coming down. I guess this answers the question of why she has been so fussy at night.

Oddly enough last night she slept from 7pm til 2:30am without making a sound. I managed to catch her in time to just rub her back and settle her before she fully awoke. Then at 4:30 she wanted a snack. Now DH is attempting to get her to fall asleep in the swing as she is super tired, but wants to crawl while nursing... which can be rather painful if she doesn't unlatch.


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## DragonflyWing

I'm in Wisconsin, we didn't get tornados here, but I feel so awful for the people in IL who lost everything. :(

Glad to hear about all the new teeth and crawling! Gunnar has 6 teeth now, four on top and two on the bottom, but Lily only has the two bottom ones so far. They're trying to crawl, but mostly roll and scoot around on their tummies. 

Lily scooted underneath the recliner the other day while I was sitting in it...and I couldn't lean forward to get her out without squishing her, and I couldn't slide her out with my feet, so I was trapped in the chair until I was able to throw myself backward and slide the whole chair back off her. It was scary for a few minutes there! 

There have been lots of bumped heads while the babies have been learning to sit up; we have hardwood floors, and I try to put pillows behind them, but they are so mobile now that they still end up smacking their heads on the floor at least once a day. Most of the time they don't seem to care, but a few times we've had some crying jags and little bruises. I guess there's no way to prevent every bump and scrape. The upside is that they are sitting beautifully now, and they sit together and play with their toys for a long time (stealing them back and forth from each other lol). 

Gunnar has started pulling up to stand in the crib and trying to pull up on other furniture. We had to lower the mattresses to the lowest setting, but it's still scary because he's so strong that he can lift himself off the mattress with just his arms, and he got up to his chest before he fell back down...I'm afraid he'll pull himself right over the rail!


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## wamommy

It's so fun to hear about all of the new teeth! It sounds like the babies are all getting pretty mobile now, too. Kellen, it sounds like teeth were Teagen's big sleep problem. Thank goodness it popped through finally! Dragonfly, how scary with the recliner. We almost crushed the family cat under our recliner as kids, and I still have a phobia of them and won't have one in the house. :haha: 

This morning was Max's 9 month (well, 9.5 month) checkup. Everything looked great! He's 29 inches and 22 pounds, but the big news (according to the Doctor) was that his head is in the 97th percentile. :blush: I do have big-headed children! Other than that, the doctor was slightly concerned about his lack of "gross motor skills" like crawling and pulling up on furniture, but he said no to be too concerned. I'm honestly not, because I know he'll get it once he tries. He's just SO content to be carted around on my hip that he seldom tries to do anything else. :haha: Overall it was a good appointment. I asked how to care for/clean his penis, which was super embarrassing. I've never had a boy before, so I wanted to ask exactly what I was supposed to do. Girls are so much easier in that respect!!

It's freezing here. I think it was 39 degrees last time I was in the car... ugh. DH has to go up on the roof to spread MossOut today, too. Let's hope I don't have an ER visit to report in an hour or 2!


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy--glad the appointment went well! I'm interested in what your doctor said about the penis care-- I've just been wiping it after each diaper change-- is there something else your doctor suggested? It's totally new to me as well-- having only nieces-- I just go with what dh says! Lol


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## wamommy

I don't know if I told you guys that I had the Verifi test done 2 weeks ago. It's a new blood test that is 99.something% accurate at testing for Down Syndrome and the other 2 trisomy. I have been silently terrified about this test, and today it hit the 2 week mark, which they told me the results would definitely be in by 2 weeks. I called this morning and the nurse wasn't in. She called me back and I missed the call! The message on voice mail said, "we can't give these results out on voice mail, so you'll need to call us back." Gulp... So I called back and again the nurse was out. She JUST called me back. After 2 weeks of losing sleep over my "advanced maternal age" and rolling the dice a 4th time, our baby has officially tested NEGATIVE for trisomy 21, 18 and 13!! :yipee: :yipee: I am so relieved I could cry. DH can't seem to be bothered with such unimportant news, and acts like he doesn't even care. Ah well, I'm happy. I'm relieved... A fourth child is going to be hard enough. I can't even imagine having serious health concerns to add to it. I know there could still be other things, and our appointment for the anatomy ultrasound isn't until the 4th of December, but for now I celebrate!! :D

Sierra, the Doctor just told me to wipe around the penis when he goes potty or during a bath, but not to ever pull the adhered part of the foreskin. It's supposed to stay fused for a couple of years and trying to pull it back more to clean it can cause injury. I guess we're both doing the right thing! It is an awkward show and tell with the pediatrician, though, since it's a man! 

On another happy note, we went to DD#1's very first parent/teacher conference today. The teacher said that she is "my little all-star... a model student." I beamed with pride! The teacher said she is ahead in her writing and already doing 1st grade level work. I had no idea! I knew she was a cheerful, well-behaved child with a fabulous attitude, but I suppose that since she's my first I didn't have anything to compare her to scholastically. I feel SO lucky today to have such wonderful children. Honestly, the teacher could have told me that she was a flunky who was WAY behind the other children and I still would have been proud, because she told me how sweet and kind DD is and how much she enjoys having her in the class. :D I suppose with my 8 trillion flaws I must be doing something right. A family friend made me cry the other day when we were talking about the new baby. She said, "you're such a good mother and your kids are so wonderful that God just couldn't help but send you another one." :cry:

How are all of you doing? It's been so quiet around here this week!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Congrats to both you and the new baby! It is wonderful that the test didn't detect any abnormalities. I would be jumping up and down with joy too! Silly DH. And congrats to you DD1. You have every right to be proud of her for her smarts and her heart. Good job!

Dragon - Your twins sound so much fun it almost makes me want a set... almost. I think it is inevitable that babies crack their heads while learning to sit. Teagen doesn't topple too much now, except when she is tired. Now we just have to make sure she doesn't crack her head on the furniture she cruises on. Gunnar sounds so strong!

The right front tooth is almost through, but no sign of the left one. LOL. It is kind of amusing looking when you peer at her gums. Last night she didn't sleep to well, but I guess she can't be blamed seeing as she has a sharp piece of enamel attempting to erupt from her gums. 

DH received an interesting phone call today. Back in June he submitted an application to our local police department for an entry level position as an officer. We didn't hear anything back so naturally assumed that he wasn't wanted. Today they called and want him to come in and test on December 5-6th. He is pretty excited. My dad was in law enforcement for 44 years (and still moonlights as a federal marshall now-and-again). DH is planning to pick my dad's brain about the test since my dad actually applied for, but did not receive a position with this same department back in 1999.

Right now DH is out enjoying a boy's night out playing "Magic the Gathering." It is a card game with dice and whatnot. He has tried to teach me, but it fails to completely hold my interest. It only took 30 min to settle Teagen down. Woot! Now I'm free to play on BNB until DH comes home.


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## Kellen

DH goes back to work on Sunday! Hooray! LOL. I love him, but I am so looking forward to having my routine with Teagen back on track.

Teagen is super cranky. Not only are her two front teeth trying to come through, but her two eye teeth are trying to come in at the same time.

Now she is calling for me...


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so sorry Teagen is cranky. :( Max had been that way all week too, but I don't see any teeth coming. Hopefully they'll spontaneously pop through and this cranky period will end! I had to put him down in the pack and play today with a toy and walk away because I just couldn't take it anymore and needed a break. He's in a really tough scratching phase. No matter how short I keep his nails he claws at my face when he's crying. ugh.

I'm terribly stressed out tonight. I'll be telling my family about the new baby tomorrow, and I have no idea how to do it. I don't want to just come out and SAY it, but I can't wait until we're all seated at dinner because I think someone will notice my tummy before then. I've tried to think of something creative, but it all seems so silly when it's baby #4. I just don't imagine any of them being super excited for me, and that's heart breaking. I'm already mildly depressed and extremely stressed about this baby, my crap marriage, and feeling like I'm not a good enough Mom. A few well-placed eye rolls from my family and I might just lose it. :(

Anyhow, I hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving, and a great time with family!! My girls asked me "so, what kind of presents do you get for Thanksgiving?" I had to explain to them that Thanksgiving is the holiday where we are thankful for what we already have, especially our family. They looked confused, but I think they're getting it... :haha:


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## Kellen

This week is hard for everyone due to the holiday. Holiday's are awesome up until you reach about 14 and are expected to start helping and then begin realizing how stressful they truly can be for the adults.

Wamommy - My heart goes out to you. I pray that your family accepts baby #4 with open arms and open hearts and showers you with tons of love. I know you feel stuck, but your kids love you and think you are the best mommy in the whole wide world. Obviously you are doing an amazing job as a parent or it would have reflected in your daughter's parent-teacher conference. Take heart and know that you are loved.
I'd take a bunch of raffle tickets with me and have your family bet on boy or girl. Sell them for $1 piece and then when the baby is born you get 50% of the money and who ever wins the gender and ticket number gets the other 50%. But I'm weird and a bit snarky that way...

Last night was an awesome night of sleep for us all. Then Teagen took a wonderful nap this morning. Then she fell asleep in the car on the way to town and slept for an additional hour. Then she refused to sleep this afternoon. It is now 6pm and she is cranky and overly tired. I feel bedtime arriving soon... Of course while I was dealing with baby terror DH was off taking a three hour nap. Then at our bedtime he'll be: "I don't know why I'm not tired and can't sleep." :dohh:

My family took the easy way out for Thanksgiving this year. One of our favorite local restaurants was having a deal on pre-cooked Thanksgiving dinners (only $2 extra for gluten free) so we have a nice 10 person meal waiting in the fridge. My grandmother brought out her fine china from her mom and already has the table set (is this a good idea with a 9.5 month old?).

Teagen is beginning to stand by herself. She'll be playing with a toy while standing and then let go of the couch, swing, chair, etc and just stand there until she realizes that she is doing it by herself. Then she is look down and lose her balance. 

I just ordered some more cloth diapers yesterday. The three covers I have is not enough. I asked DH and he agreed that I could get more so I told him that is his early Christmas present to me. :) Our Christmas present to our families this year will be family pictures that we are going to be having done some time in the near future. We found the cutest little dress for Teagen. Crazy girl has been growing like a weed. She is now solidly in 18 month clothes. The dress is actually 24 months as it was the smallest they had. The only part that is a wee bit too big is the shoulders, but it isn't all that noticeable.

I should go save DH now since I hid in the bedroom to eat my dinner. Teagen is being quiet... I think he gave her a piece of chicken to chew on.


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## helena

Hi all. Have been quiet since I travelled to England again last weekend to see mum. She is ok but had had a fall and seemed frail so am feeling a bit sad. On top of that Kiara now has 8 teeth, they just keep coming. And sleep keeps avoiding me.
Had her check up today, averge height above average weight. Happy.
Hoping you are all well.
So glad your test results came back good wamommy.
Wll write more soon, love you guys even if I don't have the time and / or energy to write :) x


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry your Mom seems frail and that you're feeling sad. :hugs: I can't imagine how hard that is! I hope things get easier. It's great to hear that Kiara is growing well, though! I can't believe how many teeth she has! Is she crawling and cruising now?

I finally got up the nerve to tell my whole family about the new baby yesterday. Phew! I was SO nervous... and totally over thought the whole thing. After trying endlessly to come up with the "perfect" way to tell everyone, it ended up kind of spontaneous. We were there for about an hour when my uncle and aunt announced that they had to leave. My uncle is the chief pulminologist at Children's Hospital in Seattle, and he was on call. ANyhow, I asked everyone to come into the kitchen before he had to leave, and as they were pouring in my Mom said, "are you going to tell us you're pregnant again?" and laughed. I simply said, "yes." Everyone was silent for a second and then said, "really??" and everyone laughed or cheered. I don't know if everyone was genuinely happy, but they seemed so. Several family members took me aside to congratulate me. I am still stressed about a 4th baby, but it helps so much to not have it as a secret anymore. Sucking the bump in was getting painful, too! Everyone was especially shocked when I told them I'm 18 weeks. :dohh:

How was everyone else's Thanksgiving? Are all of your tummies as sore as mine from overeating? I don't much care for dinner itself, but I absolutely LOVE pie, and always make myself sick trying every kind. I'm a cool 2 pounds up from yesterday morning, too... :haha: Ahh, the holidays.

Oh, and Helena, don't worry about not having time to write! I know things are crazy right now. I love all of you ladies, too, and am SO thankful to have had you all as friends this past year and a half. <3


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## Kellen

Helena - I am glad that you were able to see your mom again, but I'm sorry that she is doing poorly. I am glad to hear that Kiara's teething problems will (hopefully) soon be coming to an close as she fills in those pearly whites. I can only imagine with three little ones running around how much sleep you don't get.

Wamommy - I am glad to hear that your family took the news of #4 in stride. I can completely sympathize with the not being particularly fond of Thanksgiving food, but tanking up on the pie. This year instead of pumpkin pie my mom made an ooey-gooey pumpkin butter cake. It was to die for. Pretty sure I gained a couple of pounds as well. I know that last year from Thanksgiving to Christmas Teagen and I gained 16 lbs.

DH went back to work today and had a really good day, thankfully. Teagen and I had a nice day too. She got to put on her new rubber boots (which she hates) and go splash in the mud while visiting the lambs and chickens. One lamb, Bob, is much smarter than Larry but is kind of anti-social... except when I am holding Teagen. Today they were nose to nose. It was adorable. DH didn't get home until after I was trying to nurse Teagen to sleep before putting her in the crib. Now he is sitting in front of her swing trying to get her to go to sleep. I think we will be making some adjustments to bedtime as soon as his work schedule gets figured out.

We have ONE top tooth. It looks a bit silly as you can see it when Teagen smiles. The other one, along with her two canine's really want to pop through, but just haven't made the final push.


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## helena

Yay to having DH back to work and your time back Kellen :)

Last night Kiara slept 8 until 5.45!!!!!' am amazed. We left her to settle herself more at bedtime instead o giving her extra milk if she got fussy so maybe it was that, or maybe because she is eating more at dinner time - she loves spaghetti bolognaise or maybe the teeth are easing off. Either way I am happy!


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## Kellen

Hooray for sleep! Can you pass some of that my way? We were up every 45 minutes last night until I called it quits at 2:45.

My dad is going in for his second total knee replacement today. My mom had her second one done 3 weeks ago today. 

Tonight the temperature is supposed to drop dramatically and increase our chance of a light snow and possible freezing rain. I hope we get a small dusting tomorrow during the daylight hours so I can go pose Teagen in the snow.


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## wamommy

Yay Kiara and some yummy sleep!! :D Let's hope the trend continues.

Kellen, I'm with you on the night wakings. Max has yet another cold, and he can't eat very well. He wakes up wanting to eat, tries for 2 seconds, then angrily bats the bottle away and screams at me like_ I'm_ making it hard to breathe. Poor guy. :( 

I hope your Dad's knee replacement goes well. My Dad calls himself the "bionic man" because he's had 2 knees and 1 hip replaced. He used to run marathons for years and I think all of that pavement pounding took its toll. How is your Mom's?

Tomorrow morning is our big scan! I'm sure we'll be able to stay team yellow, but I'm still anxious about the rest of it. I sure hope baby is healthy in there. It looks like all 3 kids will be with us for the scan... :dohh: My last hope for watching the girls told me last night that she can't do it. I think we'll bring the ipad and headphones and just set them up watching a movie. Max has been SO fussy the last few days.... He'll probably scream through the whole thing. :(

Sierra and Dragon, is everything alright? How was your Thanksgiving?


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## SierraJourney

I am so frustrated! My emails didn't update me when there were posts on here---so I just assumed everyone was being really quiet. So, today, I log on and low and behold I missed two pages worth of conversation! :( Boo! :( 

Everything is fine here----I have my work review this week to see if I can continue working from home. (From things I hear, I'm a bit nervous because apparently people are complaining about my working from home---jealous, I think---and don't like Camden coming in for the meetings. . . so we'll see how it goes!!)

wamommy--I'm so glad things went well with telling your family! What a relief! I can't even imagine! I'm sorry to hear you've been so stressed. ..all of those things combined are a lot for one person to handle! Take things as they come and work on one thing at a time---especially with your marriage. Things take time---and worrying about them all at one time is just going to make you more stressed! :hugs:

Kellen---love the mud boots image I get in my head! How fun!!

helena---I'm so sorry about your mum. That's got to be soooo very hard. :hugs: I can't believe Kiara has 8 teeth! Camden still has just two bottom ones and is trying to get the two top front teeth, but they keep going back in his swollen gums. :( Poor kid.


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## wamommy

Oh no, Sierra! I'm glad all is well, though. How did Thanksgiving at your house go?

We had our big anatomy scan today and managed to stay team :yellow:! I was super tempted to ask, but kept strong. I will say, though... I had an overwhelming feeling that it's a boy while we were there. I haven't told DH, and I'm probably wrong, but I've been sure it was a girl up until today! I didn't see a penis or anything, I just FELT like I was looking at my son. Is that weird? The measurements were all spot on, if not a few days ahead, and everything looked perfect. Phew!!

Here's the little wiggler! :) Don't mind the misshapen head in the "thumbs up" picture. It was just a weird angle, lol.
 



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## Kellen

Wamommy - That is an adorable "thumbs" up picture. I am glad that you were able to stay strong and remain team yellow. I don't know if I would have been able to do that.

Sierra - Boo! Email alerts. Pshaw. I'm sorry to hear that your co-workers seem to be giving you a hard time and complaining. I am sure that you are keeping up with your duties just fine and they are just jealous that you have an amazing baby that you get to stay home with.

SLEEP CHILD! SLEEP! It took me two hours to get Teagen to sleep tonight. She was super tired so I started our bedtime routine an hour early. She was nice an asleep and I placed her in her crib after about 15 minutes of nursing. Two minutes later she was crawling around and crying. So I held her. Sound asleep again. Back in the crib. AWAKE! Nursed through the slats in the crib (maybe this will get her to keep her head down and stay asleep???) NOPE! WAY TOO EXCITING MOMMY! Okay, back to the couch. I'd rather poke you in the eye, Mommy. Is that okay with you? Back to the crib. Ahh... my bed. I think I'll take a 3 minute nap. Are you awake Mommy? I'd like to play. Oh, you're holding me. I'll fall asleep. Oooh, that is a crib, nope I'm awake now. SWING TIME! I love my SWING! 20 minutes later in the swing she is finally asleep.

AF decided to make an appearance today. Hence my nipples feel like they are on fire. This always happens whenever I have a huge rush of hormones. I don't want to nurse and it takes Teagen FOREVER to fall asleep. Of course DH works late tonight so I was flying solo. It does explain her frequent wakings though as I notice my milk doesn't flow as quickly during AF as it does during the rest of the month. Hopefully after the witch is gone she will start sleeping longer stretches again.

In other, more happy news: Teagen took THREE independent steps today. She was playing with one of those tables that babies stand at and play with different activities when she decided she needed a toy that was on the couch. So instead of sitting down and crawling over to the couch she took three very cautious steps and made it all by herself. I was super proud.

Our sheep are weird. They will only come talk to me if I have A) grain in a bucket or B) Teagen in my arms. If I try to approach Larry or Bob without food or a baby they want absolutely nothing to do with me. Personally if I saw someone approaching with a small wiggly, loud mass of baby I'd run the opposite direction.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---what a cutie pie! You have more reserve than I do---I would have wanted to know gender NOW! I'm totally not patient :haha:

Kellen---I can't believe Teagen took 3 steps! That's amazing! We're still not crawling here! (Although, he has learned to pull himself on his hands---dragging the rest of his body behind him on our wood floors. .. haha!)

AF finally showed here too! 10 days worth! I couldn't believe it was sooooo long! I used to have 3 day periods! I hope this was just a one-time occurance because I hate 10 days of AF! :(

Well, I had my year end review yesterday---I was nervous as heck! BUT, they are letting me continue to work from home, with an evaluation every year around Christmas to see how it's going! My boss said "As long as you are doing work like you are doing, I won't mind if you work for the next 30 years from home!" I'm so relieved! They have asked me to come in once in a great while if we are short staffed at the office, which I told them I would (hopefully it's not that often!). And they are having a high-school coop watch Camden when I come in for short meetings every Monday (he was in the meetings with me, but since other employees were complaining, they thought it'd be best if a coop watches him at the office---which I am okay with) I finally feel like I can BREATHE! I've been walking on pins and needles this entire 9 months, wondering if I'll be able to keep working from home. . .and it turns out that they love the work I am doing! :) So happy!

I'm so jealous of your sheep, Kellen---I love animals. Someday I hope to move out to the country so Camden can enjoy lots of animals and room to run around.


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## wamommy

Sierra, what a relief that you can keep working from home!! Congrats! :) You must be doing a great job, and it sounds like your coworkers _were_ just jealous. Phew! I'm glad they did this review before Christmas so you don't have to stress through the holidays!

Kellen, I'm so sorry to hear that Teagen is sleeping poorly. :( I read somewhere that when babies are about to make (or have just made) big advances their sleep can be disturbed. Who knows? It could also be the AF slowed milk supply. I'm sorry either way. That is SO hard. :hugs: I'm amazed that she's walking, though!! Holy super baby! Max rocks on his hands and knees, and sometimes lurches a foot or two (backward) but is nowhere NEAR standing, much less walking. Silly slow boys. :dohh:

It's 24 degrees right now outside! Ick. I love the snow, but this clear and freezing stuff is no fun! I ran the heater in the girls' room last night all night and couldn't get the room above 66. We may run out to get warm pajamas tonight!


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## DragonflyWing

Hey everyone! Sorry I've been MIA lately. We were out of town for Thanksgiving, and then we all came down with a truly awful stomach bug. 

The twins started vomiting within minutes of each other on Sunday afternoon, which escalated to fevers and diarrhea by Monday. Then Monday night, DH and I got it and thank goodness we have two bathrooms (and buckets...because we needed both at the same time :sick:). 

We were so weak that we could hardly lift the babies, and we were calling everyone we knew to come help us, but no one was available. I wanted to punch my sister in the face...I asked her if she could skip her ballroom dancing class to come home and help us, and she told me no. She said there were only two meetings left and she didn't want to miss it, plus she had already made plans with her friends for afterward. So there we were puking our guts up while trying to take care of our also-puking babies, and my sister is too busy hanging out with her friends to come help.

My sister in law was able to stop by to bring us some Powerade, chicken soup, Pedialyte, and formula (between that terrible business trip and this illness, my milk supply is ruined. I'm only getting about 18 oz a day), but she couldn't stay because she had to pick her son up from school.

It was a tough couple of days. I feel about 90% better today and I'm back at work, but the kids are still pretty sick. Gunnar was shooting up above 104 degrees every time the ibuprofen wore off yesterday. He was like a rag doll, he was so lethargic. Both of them were still vomiting last night, but today they seem ok so far. Poor little babies. :(


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## SierraJourney

I've been having trouble with the cold, too wamommy! Camden's room is the warmest in the house, so he's usually okay at night, but during the day, my office is freezing (bad windows), and his little hands get cold from playing on the floor. So, I invested in a space heater. . . it's helping. I hope you were able to find some warm pajamas for the girls!


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon! That sounds awful! I'm so sorry you've all been so sick! I can't imagine taking care of two babies while feeling so poorly yourselves! I hope you are all on the mend!!


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## Kellen

Dragon - That sounds horrible! I am so sorry for all of you. I pray that you all start feeling better soon. I can't believe that it is only a few weeks until the twins are a year old. Congrats on being able to pump for this long!

Sierra - Woot! You get to stay home! I am so glad that the review went well. I knew that it would. :) Camden sounds like he has found an efficient source of mobility for himself at the moment. Pretty much how I got around as a baby too. Never bothered with the whole crawling thing.

Wamommy - We have issues with the cold here in our lovely little RV. Teagen's crib is right by the huge bay window at the back so we have draped a bunch of blankets behind it to stop some of the cold from seeping through. The only problem is if we turn the heat on so her room stays warm at night it is about 90 in the bedroom and we boil. We managed to get two different space heaters and position them around the crib to keep warm air flowing towards her at night. It was a whole 18 degrees this morning.

I am severely sleep deprived right now, but it is okay. DH has the day off. He went in at 6:45 to take a test for the local police department. They have two openings. There were 22 people there to take the test and only 8 were allowed to go on to the second round after the scores had been compiled. DH was the final one selected. So he goes back tonight for some paperwork and then tomorrow at 10am for an interview. Our local PD uses a form of "community policing" as their main form of contact. Oddly enough I took an entire class on it for my masters so DH is reading over some of my old papers I wrote about it.

And Teagen just slipped and whacked her head... She is tired and her coordination isn't all the great. Now I go save the baby and the husband...


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## wamommy

Oh, Dragonfly, how awful!! I'm so sorry your family is going through this. I've only been sick like that once before, and thank goodness I didn't have a baby (let alone 2!!) at the time. I don't know how you survived. I hope the babies feel better! :hugs:

Kellen, good luck to your DH getting the job! I read that there's a big push to hire veterans as police and fire fighters, so I hope that gives him an edge... not that it sounds like he needs it! Fingers crossed. :)

Sierra, we have a space heater in the bedroom, but even with it running on low all night AND the house heat on, I couldn't keep up. We even sealed the windows will that plastic weatherproofing stuff (oh so attractive) and the cold still blasts in. I think part of the problem is that we live on top of a hill and the second story of our house gets blasted with any wind. That, and our heat pump doesn't work under 35 degrees, so the furnace struggles to heat the whole house. It definitely could be worse! I'm just a big baby when it comes to the cold, lol.

Kellen, can you take a nap when DH gets home?


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## SierraJourney

oh wamommy---your situation sounds much colder than mine---yikes! On that note, though, my heating bill came in the mail today. .. $400! That's horrible! Anyone else have to pay that much for heat?! I only keep the house at 69F too! I feel that once it gets even colder in the next month or two, I'll be paying around $500 a month! :(

Kellen---did you order the same brand of cloth diapers or did you try another brand? I'm absolutely in love with ours---and Camden is really happy with them too it seems. DH loves the money savings, so I think it's a win all around!


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## wamommy

We had a power bill that was $1400 the year before last!! It was for 2 months during winter, but STILL. We replaced our furnace and got a heat pump after that, and started keeping the house at 67 or 68 instead of 70. Even with all of that we can easily pay $800 for 2 months during the winter. I supposed it's better, but yikes! Luckily our summer bills are practically nothing, so it evens out. DH turns the heat DOWN at night, too... and we use space heaters in the bedroom to heat just the rooms we're in, instead of all 3500 sq ft. I just hate having to sleep in a sweat shirt... lol.


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## SierraJourney

Well at least I'm not alone! Do you put a heater in Max's room? I'd love to turn the heat really far down at night but I'm paranoid of having a space heater in Camden's room (my mother drilled it into my head that they are a fire hazard and shouldn't be used unattended. . .so I'm a bit wary!


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## Kellen

Teagen is napping with me now. Once she wakes up DH is on duty while I nap.


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## wamommy

Oh, good! I'm glad you'll get a chance to sleep. :)


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## Kellen

We use an infrared heater for Teagen. It has a built in temperature control panel. https://www.amazon.com/Duraflame-Li...d=1386279187&sr=8-15&keywords=infrared+heater


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## Kellen

I can't nap while nursing due to her top teeth. She will start lazy latching and it HURTS! Made that mistake once...


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## wamommy

Sierra, the type of space heater matters a lot when it comes to safety. Oil filled are pretty safe, as long as they have an auto-turn off if they tip over. We have a big new one in my room (where Max sleeps too) and it looks like a big box. I think it's called a forced air quartz heater, which has a million safety features. I still feel weird leaving it on at night, but I've been assured by my brother (who is a firefighter) that as long as I keep clothes/curtains/towels etc away from it, it's fine. I think you just want to avoid the ones with heated coils, and keep cats locked out of the room so they can't knoxk it over or things onto it.


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## wamommy

Here's ours: It's pretty similar to yours, Kellen.
 



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## Kellen

When ours is turned off Teagen uses it as a table. Perfect height for standing and munching on snacks or cruising around the room. 

Just saw (while she is sleeping and I'm playing with her lips) that her second front tooth is coming down along with an eye-tooth. I think we have multiple reasons for not sleeping at night.


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## wamommy

At least there's a reason! That means and end may be in sight. :) Come on, tooth!

Max still has only the two front bottom teeth. He crunches things up quite well with them, though! He's like a little rat. I here this little "crunch, crunch, crunch." :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Kellen I can't believe Teagen will let you play with her lips while she's sleeping! If I even touch Camden, he'll wake up and be instant tears. :( He's such a picky sleeper!


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## Kellen

Well, during naps she pretty much sleeps on me. She is very physically affectionate. lol. And I decided to try the Sun Baby diapers this time. They should be here next week.


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## SierraJourney

Aww I wish Camden was physically affectionate. . . nowadays whenever I pick him up, it's just because he wants me to move him to a different toy---never just to cuddle. :( 

The sunbaby's are nice---maybe a bit flimsier than the naughty baby, but the pocket is bigger, which is a huge plus for me! And they are skinnier between the legs which seems to fit Camden better. You'll have to let me know what you think of them!


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## Kellen

I will do that. 

Teagen is super affectionate. If I sit on the floor and play with her she will (at random times) come over and give me hugs and lay her head on my shoulder. But at other times she wants nothing to do with people and will violently twist in order to escape being hugged or kissed.

I have handed her off to DH for the moment. I shall now proceed to try to take a nap. How this will work with DH walking her around the house humming "Nana-na batman!" I don't know.


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## SierraJourney

Good luck with the nap! lol


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## Kellen

We have snow. Teagen wasn't overly impressed.
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh my gosh----soooooo cute Kellen!!


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## Kellen

That was at 8 this morning. It hasn't stopped snowing yet, and we were supposed to get 8-10 inches... if it started snowing at 10am. I think we are well on our way to having a snow day.


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## wamommy

How cute, Kellen!! What a great pic. :) I'm so jealous. It's freezing here with NO snow... boo. We might get a flurry or 2 tonight, but nothing fun like you're getting!


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## DragonflyWing

What a cutie!


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## helena

Hi all, hope you are keeping warm!!! I have to keep the heating on all night in Kiara's room. Unfortunately she has the coldest room in the house :(
However, she has been sleeping great - right through until 5.30! For a few nights in a row :) I even went out with friends last night and didn't get in until just gone midnight, and I didn't feel shattered when I got up this morning. I am so grateful to my little lady! She is eating much more so maybe that's the key.

The latest party trick is pointing..https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_image-2.jpg she does make me laugh with her pointing. The first time she did it DH was holding her and telling off our 5 yr old, and he happened to point while telling him off. He looked down and Kiara was pointing at her brother too! Lol. Now she points at anything :)

Seems like my 3 year old us getting sick so maybe tonight won't be such an easy night..

Xx


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## SierraJourney

helena---I think pointing is SO cute! I can't wait until Camden does that---and I'm hoping it finally helps me know what he WANTS! I still feel sometimes it's a big guessing game---does his belly hurt, is he hungry, is he just mad? lol. . . I can't wait until he can communicate more than just crying and whining! :haha:

And that's crazy that she is standing like that---Camden won't even ATTEMPT to do that!

Kellen--we have finally tried night time cloth diapering! And so far---it's a success! I'm using hemp inserts (I use them for the carseat too to avoid compression leaks)---it's a bit bulky because I use three of them, but they are thinner than microfiber inserts anyways. No leaks so far, but they are extremely saturated by morning, so I may need to add another layer soon. 

I bought wool shorties to put over the diaper, because I've heard that they catch any leaks that might happen. . . but DH REFUSES to let me use them because he thinks that it's going to make Camden's privates too hot/sweaty :rofl: I tried to tell him that people use them all of the time for nighttime cloth diapering, but he's not convinced. :lol:

Today was the first time that we tried letting a coop watch Camden during my work meeting this morning. He was LIVID. .. *sigh* hopefully it'll go better next time. . .


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## wamommy

Wow, look at Kiara standing!! What a strong girl. :D I love the pointing, too. It's so fun when they become "human," isn't it? 

Sierra, Max doesn't even try to stand yet, either... :haha: He's content to sit on the floor playing, and doesn't even crawl yet! The poor guy just projectile vomited all over the kitchen...ugh. I hope it's something he ate and not a bug. :(

We may put up the Christmas tree tonight. I LOVE going to cut a fresh tree, but I think this year we'll just use our pre-lit fake one. It's not as festive, but it's cheap and easy! :dohh: Does anyone have any christmas card ideas? What are you doing this year? We usually take a family picture, but I'm dreading it since I feel so bleh. Maybe we'll just do the kids this year. :shrug:


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## SierraJourney

We never do Christmas cards. . . but I think one of the kids will be just fine! 

We cut our tree a couple weeks ago---Camden LOVED it. (He loves being outside anyways) We bundled him up and he got to ride on a hay wagon and LOVED the tractor! :)


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## Kellen

Helena - Kiara is adorable in her little cold weather outfit. I really need to find one for Teagen. The only problem is she is so tall they think that 18 month olds don't need one piece snow suits. We have a pointer here as well. She loves to wave as well whenever she sees anyone. Good job standing!

DH wanted to do Christmas cards this year. I'm sending out a whopping 7 of them. We took our snow pictures and sent them to Walgreens and had them print out cards. I hand wrote a message on the back and need to find my address book today so I can send them off.

We brought out our pre-lit tree a few days ago and set it up on the covered porch. It sits right out the window Teagen plays by. So instead of having to tell her to leave it alone 50 billions times a day she can crawl over to the window, pull herself up, point and admire the tree.

My parents are giving us a family photo shoot as our Christmas present. Then we are giving pictures out to the rest of the family as their Christmas gifts. LOL... I'm not really looking forward to it just because of the hassle. Wamommy, I am sure you will look lovely and glowing even if you don't feel it.

Sierra - Congrats on the overnight diapering success. We are still using disposables for night time, but eventually we will switch over. Signing has made it really easy for us to communicate with Teagen and understands what she is fussing about. We use the videos from Two Little Hands Productions. Maybe you could pick up some signs from YouTube and see if Camden will try to use them to communicate?

Right now Teagen has quite a few signs. While eating she will sign "more food please" (more = hands coming together, food = hand to mouth, please = flat hand rubbed on chest). And when she is finished she will wave her hands to sign "all done, finished!" If we are playing she signs "dog, cloud, up" and with my dad she will sign "grandpa" (yet she won't sign dad or mom, which are pretty close). She can also sign "hurt" if she bumps her head or something. When it was snowing she signed "snow" as well. She understands even more signs even if she can't do them yet. We frequently ask her to "wait, stop, kiss, love, potty, go, car, outside, cat, frog, horse, sheep."

It is a balmy 14 degrees outside right now. Our silly chickens have now started laying eggs. The first egg we got was during the big snow storm. Silly chickens! This is supposed to be the time of year when their production grinds to a halt.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen--I will have to look some up on youtube and see. I've been trying to get him to sign "milk" when he wants to nurse, but so far he doesn't get it. He hasn't been a really good mimicker. .. I always hear of babies copying what their parents do and he never will do that. :shrug: But, it's worth a try! :)

Tonight is my work christmas party, so the in-laws will be here soon to spend time with Camden, then I will put him down for bed, and they will stay here while I go to the party with DH. I'm always really uneasy whenever I leave Camden---even if he is sleeping! But, it'll be a fun night, I'm sure. 

DH's cousin just had her baby today. I have to say, it really gives me the baby itch! Between that and my 8 month pregnant sister, I'm refraining from suggesting we have another one! :haha: I'm not really sure if we ever will have another one with how draining Camden has been for both of us, but I sure do crave being pregnant again! does anyone else get like this?

BTW, Dragon, when's the next test date?!


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## wamommy

Wow Kellen, the signing is incredible!! I might check out the youtube video, since Max has been really into imitating lately. We "sing," where I make a sound with a dramatic inflection and he copies me. I change it and he copies it again. It's pretty funny. I think we sound like basset hounds. :) I would love for him to be able to communicate his needs better, since I think most of his fussing is frustration over us not knowing what the heck he wants.

I like the Christmas card idea, too! It would be a lot faster and cheaper to skip the 3rd party card makers this year. I used some new programs to make Max's birth announcement in photo shop and then print the announcements for only 9 cents each at Walgreens. Maybe I'll do that again?

Haha that you're getting the baby itch, Sierra! I suppose I probably would be too... I think it's normal. I'd bet that a second baby would be a breeze for you, since you're so experienced, and would probable end up with the most easy-going baby ever! I'm glad you get some time away with DH to have some fun tonight. I know it's stressful to leave Camden, but it's probably GREAT for you and DH to feel human and adult again. :) I was trying to remember the other day the last time I wore heels. I have my nice boots and shoes on the top shelf of my closet so the girls don't wear them around. I think they have dust on them! :haha:

Max is sick as a dog, the poor guy. He has probably thrown up 50 times in the last 24 hours. I have done laundry 4 times (mine, his, DHs and the sheets on my bed) and have changed clothes about 5 times. DH hates getting thrown up on, and is really irritating me by refusing to hold Max facing him. Max screams because he just wants cuddles. He's sick. He's going to throw up. Deal with it, seriously. Anyhow, I've been up since 4am picking barf out of my hair and carpet, so I'm wiped out completely! 

Dragonfly, I honestly don't know HOW the heck you did this with 2 sick babies and sick yourself! I bow down.


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy---poor Max! And poor you! :( Oh that sounds awful. I can't imagine a baby throwing up that often. I hope it stops soon! And I hope DH comes around and gets over the throw-up---(though, I'm sure my DH would do the SAME thing!)

On the heals subject---my heals wore out right before I had Camden so I don't even own any anymore! :rofl: I'll be wearing my flats tonight. . .and forever look like a "mom". lol

And thanks for the encouragement on the second baby. That's what all of our relatives are saying to us, too. I'd love another child--especially for Camden--but it's so hard to fathom right now with him and our finances. And quite honestly, having Camden has been a big strain on our marriage. DH and I used to do EVERYTHING together--seriously, maybe twice a year did we ever go out without the other person (probably unhealthy, but we loved it). We held hands all of the time and talked endlessly. Having Camden, we feel we get no time together except in the evenings when we're too exhausted to do much but watch tv. So, it's been really discouraging--especially for DH.. . I'm sure it will get better, but for now, we need to get used to this baby in our lives before we decide on another. (Don't get me wrong, we LOVE him so much. . .just it was a drastic change for us that still hasn't gotten comfortable yet).


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## Kellen

Wamommy - You and poor Max are certainly running the gauntlet of illness this year. I hope this means he won't catch any more bugs for years to come. My DH is fortunately pretty good about things like that as he is frequently pooped and peed on by dogs and cats at work. Baby bodily fluids don't phase him too badly. I hope you don't come down with it as well.

Sierra - I understand what you mean about adjusting to life with baby and still finding time to hang out with DH. DH and I were together for 5 years (2.5 of them married) before Teagen came along. We were (are) best friends and did EVERYTHING together. Of course we have our separate interest, but genuinely enjoy doing most everything with each other. It is hard because DH doesn't want to let go of going out and doing things without Teagen whereas I can't stand to leave her. I am looking forward to the 21st of this month. Our motorcycle club is holding a Christmas party and specifically made it at 4:30 in the afternoon so that we can bring Teagen. :)

What type of activities are you guys doing during the cold weather months? Teagen loves to be outside so much that we are both getting a pretty severe case of cabin fever. It probably doesn't help that our water pipes have been frozen since last Friday and we are living off of paper plates and microwave food as I don't want to cook and not be able to wash dishes.

In other news I managed to score 3 shirts, 2 onsies and a pair of pants off a local Facebook group for Teagen for only $12. I'm pretty excited since only the pants had ever been worn. Also have a message in to another mom who has extra cloth inserts that she doesn't want.


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## Kellen

Sierra - I have moderate baby fever. DH and I actually discussed it a couple of nights ago. We have agreed to wait until Teagen turns two. I want to give her at least that long to nurse if possible. I'd like to tandem feed with her and the new baby, but I don't want to risk loosing my milk until she is at least 2 so that way if we have to dry nurse for a few months she'll be able to somewhat understand. I also like the fact that Teagen would be almost 3 if not a little older by the time the new baby comes around.


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## DragonflyWing

We've decided to put TTC on hold indefinitely. I'm thinking I'd like the twins to be old enough to help out a little before a new baby comes, so maybe we'll start trying again when they are 18 months-2yrs. Honestly, my mental health is so poor right now that I could not handle a pregnancy.

The twins are mostly recovered from their virus now, thankfully. Gunnar did wake up with a rash on his face yesterday, but we think it's from the small amounts of whole milk we started introducing. We're going to put that off for a few more weeks.

Work is crazy right now so I don't have much time, but I'll try to pop in again later.


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## SierraJourney

As much as I wanted two babies close in age, I think waiting sounds best for us too. 

Dragon--I couldn't imagine having a baby with twins this age---I think I'd wait too! I'm sorry to hear about your mental health---I hope you are getting good tretament for it! :hugs:

Well, I got one week off from AF before she came again! WTF?! I'm tired of being bloated! lol


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## wamommy

There is something to be said for a larger age gap, too. A 3-year-old understands, "if you can wait 5 minutes while I change a diaper I'll get your favorite pens out to play." A 1-year-old just screams... :haha: I love the close age gap with my girls, but I'm glad they're both a bit older now. My 5-year-old is AMAZING with Max, and is the biggest helper. 

Dragonfly, I'm so sorry things are tough right now. :( I hope work calms down a bit so you can breathe a little. Do you ever get time to yourself to relax? It sounds like your plate is really full.

Kellen, I go totally stir crazy in the winter here, too. We take the kids to the mall to walk the length of it a few times, or sometimes random craft stores to pick out cheap activities. That's more of an older kid thing, though. Max is happy just to walk through Target, since every older woman stops to dote on him... :haha: I can't wait for the spring so we can get back outside!

So, I hit the 20 week mark today. I can't believe I'm half way there! It seems like yesterday that I found out. I've sprouted a bump since 15 weeks, but it's nowhere near how big I was with Max. Weird. I blame shock.

First is 15 weeks, second is today at 20. :)
 



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## SierraJourney

Aww love the bump wamommy! So cute!!

For cold weather activities, we either go to the mall, other peoples' houses or have people over. Camden doesn't really like people or other places much, so I think he's content to stay home most of the time! :haha: He DOES miss outside, though----he cries everytime I open the door and don't take him out. :(


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## helena

Kellen - this was an 18 month one piece snow suit. Maybe check the uk or European sellers?
Kiara wants to fully play now, even when it's freezing she wants to crawl / walk (cruise) / sit in the sand pit with the bigger kids.

Looking good wamommy! You are still tiny at 20 weeks, have you a pic from your pregnancy with Max?


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## wamommy

I do have a pic from Max! I was digging through old pictures on my computer today and found one from 20 weeks. I only took 4 or 5 belly shots last time, so I'm lucky to have one! Looking at it again, I'm not THAT much bigger with Max. I think I just started off thinner, so the weight gain was more noticeable last time.

Black shirt is Max, red shirt is this baby!
 



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## Kellen

Dragon - I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing a hard time. I pray that you are able to find the help and support you need. We are all here any time you need a slightly objective someone to rant to. We love you and your kiddos even though we have never met in RL.

Wamommy - You look amazing. 'Nuff said. I can't believe you are already half way through.

Sierra - I love the Sun Baby diapers so far. They fit a lot better around Teagen's legs and the leaks don't happen as frequently. I also like the soft interior. So far they are working great for us.

Teagen is walking. Yes, walking without assistance. Given she can only take about 6 tiny steps before she falls over, but it is walking never the less. And it terrifies me... because she is tall and can grab things off the table.

The day before yesterday she followed my mom into the bathroom. As my mom was using said bathroom. Teagen started chanting: "poop, poop, poop." Because that is typically what she does when I sit her on the toilet. My mom tried to convince her that it was "pee-pee" but Teagen very seriously insisted that it was "poop." Great... one of the only spoken words my child will say is poop.

Then yesterday as we were driving back from our whirlwind time testifying in Portland Teagen was fighting sleep. I was in back with her trying to call her down. She was crying and signing "sleepy" and "sad" and "all done". Pretty much broke my heart. Now she is demanding to go play...


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--you carry babies so well! Gorgeous!

Dragon--I agree with Kellen---we're hear anytime to listen!!

Kellen--I'm so glad that you like the sunbabys! I like how they are trimmer between the legs, too. 

That's unbelievable that Teagen is walking! What a champ! And so sad about the car ride. :( Poor baby.


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## Kellen

It broke my heart because I knew what she was crying about, but there wasn't anything I could do. We had to keep driving thanks to cold temperatures and rain that was starting to try to become sleet.

Helena - I will look at some European sellers. I don't know how much more snow we will have. Normally our winters are wet and the temp stays around 40-60 degrees.

We also noticed yesterday that Teagen has at least 5 teeth trying to come in at the same time, possibly 7 as she won't let me look at the bottom and keeps her tongue over her gums. No wonder the poor girl is waking up at night.


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, I agree that we're here to listen if you need to vent! We support you and are rooting for you. :hugs:

Kellen, Teagen's signing would have killed me! How sad. :( The nicest thing to do is to keep going and get home quickly, but it's not like you can explain that to her!

Along the same lines, we were in TJMaxx today looking for a gift for my aunt, who is incredibly eccentric and impossible to shop for! Anyhow, Max pulled a big mug off of the shelf and it crashed to the floor in pieces. I gasped and he made the saddest pout and started to whimper. Every woman within 20 feet ran to help clean it up and comfort Max. :haha: He felt so bad! 

Are you guys doing gifts for your babies? I'm not sure what the heck to get for Max. He doesn't understand what's going on, but at the same time I don't want to leave him out. I have some of the girl's toys in the garage and I'm thinking about cleaning them up and wrapping them for Max. He doesn't know, right? It would still be fun to unwrap. I think we have one of those musical tables that he would really love. Is that terrible of me?


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## Kellen

We aren't doing a lot of presents for Christmas, but some. I think it is different because we only have Teagen. My parents got her one big gift, we are getting her more Signing Time (I found a great deal locally where we are getting two series of it for $100. It normally runs $289) and then a Green puppy thing that we can program to say her name and teach her to spell. Everyone else is getting us clothes. Oh, and her great grandma is getting her a shopping cart. I asked for socks and a book for Christmas as I am pretty sure no one is going to fork over the $500 mountain bike I really want... Nor is DH getting the XBox 360 he's been begging for for the past three years.


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## helena

Well done walking Taegan!! I am more amazed she's ays words. Or you sit her on the toilet! We are still most definately at the da da dad a daaaaaa da da stage.

For Christmas Kiara is getting a walker. Its stroller for a doll that doubles as a walker. She currently walks around the living room pushing her high hair or any handy box so I am sure she will love it. My parents have got her a rag doll which will hopefully get pushed around in the stroller :). https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00CUZFYI6/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My DH has been away this weekend so it has been me v the three kids. All ok so far, only one big row. Otherwise we had a nice time going to a play centre yesterday and then a Christmas party at a friends house. Hoping they will let us take it easy today and then daddy is back tonight, yay! 

Kiara is off formula and on cows milk now, the doc gave us the go ahead since she is above average weight and eats well. She just loves casserole and couscous this week!
What's your little ones favourite dinners....

*** edit! update....DH missed his flight! Grrrrrr

On another note I randomly felt an urge for another baby today. I won't, I feel I am only just coping with my 3 (1 is especially tricky) but oh I do so love those newborns! Bit jealous wamommy :) have you started on your names yet!?


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## wamommy

Helena, the walker for Kiara is too cute!! That should be a ton of fun for her. She sounds like a great eater, too. Max tries everything we give him, but usually he just half plays with his food unless he REALLY likes it. He loves sausage, hates eggs, loves bagels and cheese, loves any fruit, LOVES peas (but they come out whole, eew), and loves pasta with tomato sauce. We've taken a little break from new foods since Max has been sick, but will get back into trying new things soon.

It's too funny that you had the baby urge today too, Helena! If only you lived closer so you could come get your baby fix helping out at my house! :haha: jk, you have your hands as full as I do!

Kellen, we're doing light presents here, too. We usually go too crazy and Christmas becomes about unwrapping things as fast as possible in a whirlwind. This year we're trying to slow it down and teach the kids to appreciate what they have. It's half because it's an important lesson, and half because we're kind of broke this year! haha. My DH fixes broken phones and tablets as a hobby and for extra income, so he was able to buy broken ipads for the girls and make them look NEW for $90 a piece. :D 

So my great Christmas photo shoot was a complete disaster. I was really hoping to get ONE good picture of all of us to make into a card. The first night we tried, but the spacing and positioning was all wrong. The second night I made everyone dress up again and my stepdaughter refused to get close to DH in the picture, and then stormed off 5 minutes into taking pictures when I called he on her poor attitude. What a mess! It looks like I won't be sending out Christmas cards this year. :( On the plus side, I DID get amazing shots of Max and the girls! I will be framing these for sure. 

I made them super small because I'm hyper-paranoid about posting pics on the web. DH is uncomfortable with me posting any, but I really want you guys to see my beautiful kids!
 



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## SierraJourney

wamommy--your kiddos are gorgeous!! What a lovely little family! I can't wait to see what the new baby looks like! :)

helena--I think the walker is so cute! I can imagine her pushing her dolly around in it--so sweet!

Today, I am a very proud momma. For the first time in his entire life, Camden let someone else play with him and watch him for TWO straight hours without crying! I know this doesn't sound like much, but for my fussy baby, it is a DREAM! I'm so proud!! He's growing up! :)


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## helena

Wamommy what gorgeous kids! Very cute girls. So pretty. Your eldest certainly looks super proud to have a baby brother :) and your youngest girl has a cheeky air about her if you ask me ;)

I also get paranoid about the web sometimes so occasionally post pics for a day or two so you girls can see them then I delete them.


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## SierraJourney

That's a good idea about deleting the photos after a couple of days---I too am paranoid. Thanks for the tip!


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## wamommy

Thanks, ladies! Helena, you are totally right about DD#2. She IS cheeky, and quite a character. My oldest adores Max, and protects him and plays with him. I've been pleasantly surprised what great big sisters they both are. :D

That's a great tip about deleting the pics after a couple days. I may do that! I just made them super small so no one would bother trying to download them. They're blurry, but safer ( I think ).

Yay Camden!! What a huge milestone for him! I'm SO glad he was able to let someone else watch him. :) Hopefully this opens up a whole new world for you. :happydance:


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## Kellen

Wamommy - What gorgeous kiddos you have. I absolutely love the curls your oldest has. I'm envious. Max is going to be a little heart breaker. Such a handsome little fellow. He looks so happy. Sorry to hear the photo shoot didn't go as planned, but you did get some really nice shots it looks like.

Sierra - Huzzah for Camden! I hope this opens up a whole new world for the both of you. I'm so thrilled for the both of you. Maybe this will give you and DH time to reconnect and find a new happy normal.

Helena - That is a great idea about deleting the pictures after a bit. I am going to do that as well. I think we are all a bit paranoid for a good reason. I wish that there was a way to make a forum on here private so random guests couldn't just pop in.

So Teagen's top right front tooth is about halfway grown in. Now her top right eye tooth is cutting through as is her left front and eye teeth. Poor baby is trying so hard to be happy, but it hurts. Last night I would wake up and hear her whimpering in her crib. It was heartbreaking because we had even given her Tylenol, but nothing seems to really help. Even when we play she'll pout a lip and point to her mouth when I ask her where it hurts.

Today and tomorrow are my last big push for Christmas. Today I am dragging DH along with me to finish getting the last few presents on our list and stocking stuffers. Every year we go to the Dollar Store and pick out $10 worth of random stuff to stick in each other's stockings. It is normally very silly, but a lot of fun. Last year he found 5 different colored scarves. I don't wear scarves. Apparently he thought I loved scarves... Strange man.


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## helena

The thread might be able to be In a closed group maybe? Worth checking with admin?


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## Kellen

I think it would be worth checking with an admin. :shrug:


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## wamommy

Should I email admin and ask them to close it? It won't lock US out, will it?


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## Kellen

Is there any way for the admins to make a board private so that no guests or people who have no previously posted on the board can see it? I don't want US locked out, as you said, but it would be nice to know that no random strangers were lurking around.

On a happier note we have running water again! It has only been a week and a half. Thankfully the temperatures have been in the low 40s so the pipes thawed out. I am looking forward to getting back to cloth diapers.


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks for the support, everybody. I have an appointment with my psychiatrist tomorrow, but we're actually considering a short hospital stay to get me stabilized on the right medication. The one I'm taking now is not working and I've been feeling just awful and self destructive. We'll see how my appointment goes tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to stop pumping, too, because my medication options are so limited while breastfeeding.

As it is, I'm only pumping about 15 oz a day now anyway. Several illnesses in a row pretty much obilterated my supply, so the twins are on mostly formula at this point.

The babies turn one tomorrow! I'm trying to work up the energy to make them a healthy banana cake to celebrate. I'm not sure I'll be able to, though. It's really all I can do to get through the day.


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## wamommy

Oh Dragonfly, I had no idea things were so hard right now!! I'm so sorry! :hugs: Don't worry about the pumping. The babies need you to be ok much more than breast milk. I hope all goes well. Keep us posted, and I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Kellen, hurray for water! I watched a show on a terrible drought last night and it made me rethink my own water usage. I run the water as I brush teeth, etc. I also LIVE for my hot shower each day, and probably spend way too much time in there. It's my only time to myself.

We finished Christmas shopping! Well, except for my aunt. The adults in my family draw names out of a hat so that we only have to buy one adult a big gift. I drew my aunt, which stinks because I don't know her that well and I'm sure to tank with her gift!

Also, I posted a message to admin about how to make this thread private. I'll let you know what they say!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon--I am so sorry things are going so poorly for you. :( A hospital stay sounds like a good idea, I think. Please keep us posted. :hugs: 

Yay for being done Christmas shopping wamommy! We are done here, too. My goal is to do all of the wrapping this weekend. :)

When do you ladies call the pediatrician about a fever? Long-story-short, Camden has been runnin a fever of 99.3-100.4 (not technically a "fever" but a high temp) for a MONTH. The doctor has said on several occassions that if he is eating right and acting okay, then he is fine and might just have a higher body temperature. Well, today, he woke up with a fever of 101.7 and has been crying most of the morning, clinging to me and is now on his 4th nap! DH gave him tylenol and that brought the temp down to 100.4. . .and now he's sleeping again. I'm wondering if this is just a bug he caught now, but I don't want to dismiss it if it's coorelated to the other high temps. Then again, I'm always extra paranoid anyways. . .so. .. when do you ladies call the doc?


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## wamommy

I would call the Doc just to be sure. I know a low-grade fever can be beneficial, because it helps fight off the bug, but if it's been going on so long and is now spiking up, I'd definitely call. Max is the opposite, and always runs cool. His normal temp is about 97.5... same as mine. If he hits 100 I think of it as super high, even though the Docs aren't concerned, because I know it's actually almost 3 degrees up. Anyhow, I'd call. Poor Camden. :( Sleepiness is also a sign that his little body is fighting something.

I wrapped presents for an hour last night and an hour a couple of nights ago, and I still have more to go! I think part of the problem is that I'm a perfectionist and hate when the presents don't look perfect. I also use a hair dryer to remove all sticker price tags so they don't leave any residue. I know, I know... I have a problem. :blush:


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## wamommy

Oh, I heard back from admin too. There isn't a way to limit people's access to this thread. It can be permanently closed, but not limited. :( Ah well, I don't think a ton of people wander into February 2013 threads... :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy. I'll probably wait until he wakes up and take his temp again. . .if still high I will probably give them a call. I swear, ever since his uti at 3 months old, I'm afraid if his temp gets anywhere away from 98.6! 

And wow. . .I bet your gifts look beautiful when they are wrapped! I make sure mind are neat, but I don't go into that much detail. ;) I *do* however have to put curled ribbon around every package---whereas DH's family, just wrap the gifts in paper--no bow, no tag, etc. Interesting how different people do it. I think I need to see a picture of one of your wrapped gifts wamommy--they sound pretty if you take that much time! :)


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## Kellen

Dragon - Get better soon. We love you! :hugs:

Sierra - Teagen is naturally hot. Ever since she was born her temp has run around 98.9 to 99.1. But if Camden has been acting unusual then I would probably phone the doctor. I know our pediatrician has a nurses line we can call and they will advise whether or not we need to bring Teagen in.

Wamommy - Can I hire you to re-wrap all my presents? I am a terrible wrapper. It looks like an 8 year old with ADD wrapped all of mine. LOL. I can wrap nicely, but after working at a bookstore who's owner was OCD about wrapping paper I chose not to wrap nicely. It is a point of contention with me.

So does anyone else do stockings? Normally we open one present Christmas Eve, stockings in the morning after "Santa" has come, eat brunch, then open the rest of the presents and lounge for the rest of the day. Oh and somewhere in between we read the Christmas story from Luke 2.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! Temperature was kept down until the tylenol wore off, then it was back to 101.2--gave him more tylenol before bed, and when he woke up, the fever was gone! He's back to his playful self! Me, on the other hand, I have a core throat this morning. :( I bet that's what he had--poor guy! 

Kellen--we do stockings, too. Usually we set a small price limit and put a few random things in there---like socks, or a used cd or something (just DH and I---we haven't decided what to do for Camden's stocking). We open everything on Christmas morning together. :) I love Christmas time! I'm so excited!


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, on a side note--have you been to the "Post your Cloth Bum Pics" thread in the Natural Parenting section? I've been going through the pictures over there and it makes me want to buy even more cloth diapers! lol I'm fully stocked now with about 30+ diapers, so I don't need to buy anymore. . .but I keep adding ones to my wishlist after seeing how pretty some of them are! 

Actually, all of you ladies should go check that thread out because they are just so darn pretty to look at! :)


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## wamommy

I'm glad Camden is better today, but poor you Sierra! I hope it's gone by Christmas.

When I was growing up we always did stockings and Santa right when we got up, and then ate cinnamon rolls and waited on my Mom and Dad to drink their coffee before opening presents from each other. We do a similar thing now. We get up and take the girls into the family room while we make a cup of coffee (I might actually drink a regular coffee if it's early enough this year!) and then we all go together into the living room to see if Santa came. DH and I try to control the whirlwind that is a child on Christmas, and then I'll make brunch after presents are finished. I gave DH his present early this year, because I couldn't hide it, and we don't do stockings for each other. We should. It sounds like you guys are very loving and thoughtful with yours. I honestly don't know what I would buy DH, though. I've been a bit irritated because when he wants something, he buys it, even if we can't afford it right now. He's been buying a bunch of cell phone stuff that we don't need right now, and this is already a REALLY tight month with Christmas... sigh. Ah well. 

Lol about your wrapping issues, Kellen. Mine stem from a super talented and artistic big sister who always got Oohs and Aaahs about her present wrapping prowess growing up. I swear she should have designed the Christmas display for Macy's and Sax 5th avenue. 

After presents here we're heading up to my Mom's house for a super casual afternoon. Everyone is just stopping by when they have time and there will be snacks laid out. My Mom is a pastor, and she does 4 services on Christmas Eve including one at 11pm, so she's always really tired on Christmas. It's mostly about letting the kids open presents and enjoy the day. For me it's a really good excuse to see my family who I don't see nearly enough.

We have a dusting of snow on the ground today! It's beautiful, but certainly not enough to stick around. It will probably be gone by noon, but for now it's gorgeous!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---your Christmas sounds lovely. I bet it's just full of excitement with the older kiddos. 

DH and I have been so tight financially since we met (two poor college students trying to make a living playing music, fast forward to now when we're paying off those loans and supporting a baby! lol) that I have TONS I want to get him each year! We always set a price limit depending upon how much we think we can afford and we buy presents within that price. Our bosses are extremely generous with bonuses this time of year, so we actually do pretty good. . .but I still can't get him everything that I know he wants! lol But his birthday is in February, so I always save the leftover ideas until then. :)

I'm trying to find a Christmas Eve service around here that is going during the day (most of them are late at night when Camden is already in bed)--but it also has to allow children because I haven't been brave enough to put Camden in nursery during church yet (I'm a germ FREAK, so it's hard for me to know that my healthy little baby could be playing with toys a sick child played with just moments before!). . . I'm hoping to transition Camden to nursery in January. ..we'll see if it actually happens. . .lol. . .for now, he stays with me in service until he gets too disruptive, then we go to the "quiet room" where I can nurse him and still see/hear the sermon. .

I can't believe your mom does 4 sermons in one day---that's got to be so tiring! Bless her.


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## helena

Hi all! We do stockings. Usually they are opened rights way, as soon as the kids wake and run to them. They usually have some sweets and little toys or fun things in. This year all 3 are getting some white chocolate buttons, the boys are getting some pens for colouring, a mini chocolate Santa and a couple of little ikea finger puppets (dragons). 
Usually we have other presents afterwards, then play for the morning, have a big roast lunch and then maybe try and go out for some air I n the afternoon or risk falling asleep on the sofa. In the pre children days this was geat but now best to be avoided I guess. Unless they sleep too. And the chances of my 5 year old sleeping after a tone of chocolate is pretty much zero.

I made this the other night. I highly recommend! Served over lots of ice ...https://www.browneyedbaker.com/2013/03/12/homemade-baileys-irish-cream-recipe/

On a. Non Christmassy note, is a w the genetic oncology people again last week. They said I have a 1 in 4 risk of getting breastcancer. Usually it's curable but in my family it seems to go on to kill so we are pretty much decided on a mastectomy. Just need consultations witha. Breast surgeon some time next year. I know it sounds so drastic, but my mums mum didnt get to meet me as she died too young. My kids won't remember my mum as she will leave us too young. I need to stop this pattern, even if I only have a 25% risk. As i said to the doctor the other day "1 in 4 chance?....ok, I understand I have a 75% chance of not getting it....but really, 1 in 4? If I had a 1 in 4 chance of winning a million pounds / dollars / euros / francs I would buy lots of tickets thinking I had a really great chance!". Feel kind of lucky to have this chance to reduce my chances to almost zero. Thinking next summer or the summer after depending on how things pan out back at home with my mum. I don't want her to know, she will only worry or feel guilty. I don't want that. 

Anyway, that all sounds too serious. Back to Christmas chat please!.....

Xxx


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## SierraJourney

oh helena, I am SO sorry! :( That's so horrible :( What a horrid position to be in. :( My cousin just went through this same thing---except she had breastcancer (she's 39 years old) and they told her she could go through chemo, etc, but there's a 25% chance it'll come back. She decided not to take the chance, and had a double mastectomy. It was really hard during it, but now she is doing really great (and looks fabulous!) Sending hugs to you. . . :hugs:


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## helena

I actually feel pretty lucky. Lucky that I have the chance to stop the cancer before it happens. Because once it pops up we aren't in control anymore. Even if we have a mastectomy after cancer. Not that you need worry about your cousin I am sure. The doctor told me most breast cancers are curable. Treatment has a high high success rate. Just seems not the case in my family. They don't know why. So i feel lucky I started investigating my options now, and lucky there are options. I feel lucky I can chose when to go ahead. I can act before cancer takes control.
And lucky we are a generation where as women we aren't defined by our bodies. I can probably still be a strong woman without my boobs.. It's a good time to be a women without breasts, if you need to be. It may not have been the same years ago for my grandmother or even my mother. 
Just hope I can keep this positive and strong!... I am sure I can. I only need to look at my babies to know I will do whatever I can to make as sure as I can I will be there to see their babies :) ultimately I don't need my boobs anymore :)

Just had an Irish cream. Yum! Go on, make some :) x


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## SierraJourney

You are amazing Helena. :hugs: 

Irish cream is definitely on the agenda for me tonight--- dh picked some up last night. Not homemade, but it'll do! ;)


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## wamommy

Stop gloating about the Irish Cream, seriously! It sounds SOO good to me... Ah well, I can have it in a few months. :haha:

Helena, you are truly amazing. :hugs: I'm sure it is an impossibly tough decision, but your children are so lucky that you are taking steps to make sure you're here for them and _their_ children. I don't envy your position, but I do your strength!


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## Kellen

Helena, you are an inspiration to us all. I'm sorry you have to make the decision at all, but at least you have a decision to make. So rock on with your bad self and have some Irish Creme. That does sound good. The only thing we have in the house is DH's beer and some wine I use for cooking... lol.

Am I the only one who is finding it difficult to keep Teagen's (insert your child's name here!) until Christmas? We found a little green puppy named Scout that we can program. When it turns on it says: "Ruff, ruff. Hello, Teagen!" So adorable... I want to give it to her now, but DH says I must wait.

My body is so strange. The other day I thought AF was trying to return, which was odd because it was the middle of my cycle. Then it stopped. My first thought was implantation bleeding. Which is impossible. My IUD is 99.9% effective. Isn't it? I guess I'll wait and see if AF shows up in January before jumping to conclusions. I guess BF could still being making it haywacky.


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## helena

Oh Kellen, imagine if you had an extra surprise this Christmas!.....you would have to call it Holly. Or Gabriel. Or something else Christmassy :)


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## SierraJourney

Oooooo what if it was implantation bleeding?! You'd better keep us posted because now I'm getting a bit excited! (Darn this broodiness!) Lol

Wamommy maybe you can make a non alcoholic version? I'm still in desire of a full drink someday-- but with breastfeeding I only usually have a few sips....

How's the baby growing doing? How are you feeling? 

Wamommy-- maybe you


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## wamommy

Kellen, do keep us posted! Wouldn't that be amazing?? I agree with Helena. You might have a little Noelle or Nick on your hands! I know the IUD is supposed to be 99.9% effective, but so is birth control, right? :haha: I'll be the first to argue THOSE stats.

DH bought some non-alcoholic Christmas beverage from Ikea that seriously tastes like the real thing, so I think I'll have some of that. It is hard on holidays when the whole family is relaxing with wine and I'm rocking my sparkling cider with the kids.... :haha: but ah well. 

As for the baby growing, Sierra, it's going pretty well! I finally had a growth spurt and gained around 5 pounds so FAR this month. :blush: I can feel the baby move and see it from the outside. I'm feeling pretty good physically. I know this is the easiest time in pregnancy, so I'm trying to enjoy it. I'm honestly starting to freak out inside, though. The more I can see and feel the baby, the more I have to face that there is, indeed, a baby in there that will be here in just a couple of months! Yikes.

I'm about to get the whole family dressed up for our yearly Christmas brunch at church. It's a huge event. Santa will be there as well as a breakfast buffet. :) It should help build the excitement for the kids. I wrapped some presents, but not all of them, and I didn't wrap the one thing my daughter Nica REALLY wants. She searched through all of the presents and looked so sad... It broke my heart. THen she said, "it's ok... I can ask for that doggy for Christmas again next year." I wanted to run get it and give it to her that second!! She will be so happy on Christmas.


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## SierraJourney

Aww wamommy--that is so sad/cute about your daughter. I bet her joy will be priceless on Christmas morning! 

I miss feeling a baby move inside of me---enjoy it while you can! I know it makes it more real, but how simply amazing!


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## DragonflyWing

helena :hugs:

Just checking in to say Merry Christmas to all. We're doing ok!


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## helena

Merry Christmas ladies! Xx


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## Kellen

Merry Christmas! The stockings have been emptied. Breakfast has been consumed. Now Teagen is napping.


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## wamommy

Merry Christmas, ladies!! :xmas9: I hope you all have a wonderful day. :) 

The whirlwind is over here and I'm about to make brunch. The kids are happy! DH also gets some extra points today for getting me an Ergo carrier in the same pattern as my diaper bag!! Woooooot!!
 



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## SierraJourney

Merry Christmas ladies! Yesterday was super busy for us (aren't all holidays?!), but we had our small Christmas here--just DH, me, and Camden--- then we had my dad's Christmas in the morning and my mum's Christmas in the evening! On top of that, DH was sick, so stayed home in the morning. . . Camden and I are just getting over the sickness, so it was a lot of work to get us out and to both Christmases, but we made it! It was a lovely time and I can't believe how many toys Camden got from other people for Christmas! I'm now looking online for a toybin because he didn't have too many toys before, so we just left them lying around on the floor of the playroom. . .but now I need some sort of organization for all of these toys! Any suggestions on bins/boxes for toy organization?

Wamammy--I'm totally jealous of your Ergo! It's beautiful! I'm looking into the Tula toddler carrier for my next carrier. . . since Camden is now getting into "toddler-age", but I still want to be able to carry him. We'll see if DH swings for it someday. ;)

Has anyone else switched from the infant carrier to a regular carseat? I'm thinking it's time to switch soon, as Camden is getting a bit long for his infant carrier. . . but I'm a little scared to switch! I love carrying him from the car in his seat. . .and I love the protection of it. Why does he have to grow!? lol


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## Kellen

Happy Day After Christmas!

Wamommy - That is an awesome Ergo. I still love using mine with Teagen. Sometimes it is way more convenient to have her on me instead of in a shopping cart or stroller. That is a beautiful pattern. Brownie points for DH!

Sierra - I was just thinking this morning that we need to find a toy box or chest for all of Teagen's toys. I am also planning to go through her toys and pick out the ones that are too baby-ish and don't get played with very often. We haven't used an infant car seat for a long time... At least since October 15th when it was stolen along with our car. We have an extended rear-facing car seat that will last until she is 40lb and then will front face until 65lb.

Teagen was a bit overwhelmed with all the "new" she encountered yesterday. DH tried to get her to rip into packages, but she looked at him with the face of: "You and mom tell me NOT to rip paper all the time and now you're trying to get me to tear it? I'm not stupid, Daddy." She was thrilled with her "Scout" puppy that we programed to say her name and play games with her. She is also pretty fond of her "Ybike" from my parents. It is supposed to be used as a walker from 12 months until the toddler is tall enough to sit on it and push it around with their feet. My long kid rides it like a bike and can scoot! She enjoys being pushed on it too.

Our sign language is exploding here! Everyday she shows us a new sign. A couple of mornings ago DH was tickling her and she turned around and signed "All done, game Daddy." I had no idea she knew how to sign "game". Then yesterday she really started in on the "Dada's". Anytime DH would walk out of the room she would cry for him. So I got to have a free day!

I bought DH a remote controlled helicopter. He has been asking for one for the past three years. Immediately after clean up he put batteries in it and took it outside to play with it. He is such a big kid! Teagen thought him crashing it was hilarious. I thought she was going to pass out she was laughing so hard.

Sorry to hear about all the sickness going about. I'm 50/50 on whether or not I was pregnant. I get waves of nausea, but nothing like I had with Teagen. I feel tired, but that could be because I'm still getting up 3 times a night with Teagen. My nipples are sore, but we are sprouting teeth. I've had cramps, but they could be round ligament types or they could just be signs of AF approaching. I guess we'll see next week if AF decides to show up. No use taking a test as it would be too early for anything to show up.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that's hilarious about the helicopter---I got my DH one this Christmas too!! lol He's been too sick to even open it yet but plans to take Camden to the park to try it out! lol 

It's so exciting waiting to see if AF comes. How do you feel about the possibility?!

Me, on the other hand, know for certain pregnancy is no where in sight---I have had THREE periods in a matter of a month! (That's about a 4 day break! Argh! :( )

I think we'll have to look into a carseat like that.. . I want him to be rearfacing for as long as possible!


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## wamommy

I'm glad to hear your Christmases went well! It's such a busy, wonderful day, isn't it? We spent the whole morning at home and then drove the hour trip up to my Mom's house in the afternoon. We stayed there WAY too late, and by 8:30 when we left Max was asleep and my 4-year-old (who was sneaking chocolates off of the table all afternoon) was absolutely insane. Even once we got home and DH and I were about to collapse, the girls were still going strong wanting to play with their new toys!! Ahh... to be young again. DH and I stayed up until 2am on Christmas Eve putting together a bunk bed for the girls, so it was a very exhausting day indeed.

I have a huge toy box for the girls' stuff, along with several toy bins for the overflow, but nothing for Max yet. He doesn't have a ton of stuff, but the amount is growing. So far his toys are spread out around the house and piles on counters and shelves so the girls won't mess with his things. I'm thinking he may need his own toy box of "safe" toys soon, to keep all of the toys separate. I've seen those shelves with different color bins that pull out to organize toys on Craigslist for only $20 or so, and I'm thinking that may be the way to go.

Max wasn't a big fan of any of his gifts, unfortunately... :haha: The musical table is a bit too overwhelming for him and he got frustrated immediately. The only thing he likes was a remote control for babies (since I'm constantly taking the remote away from him) and I discovered he LOVES books. The expensive gifts from family and things I thought he'd love appear to be dust collectors, at least for now. 

Sierra, we've been in a convertible car seat (rear facing until 35 pounds, forward to 70) since Max was about 7 months old. He's such a chunk, and our infant seat was only rated to 22 pounds, that we changed over pretty early. I also really like the seat he's in now. It got amazing safety reviews and is very comfy and roomy for him. It's actually DD #2's seat... so it's pink and grey. Poor Max!! :haha: He doesn't seem to mind though, and new covers are $75! That seems like such a rip-off. I do miss the ease of popping the carrier out of the car and straight into the stroller. It was nice not to wake Max when he was sleeping! 

It's taken me an hour to finish writing this post. My girls are fighting over new toys and keep asking me to put together/take apart/cut tags off/find accessories... ugh. So much for a relaxing day after Christmas!

Kellen, keep us posted on the pregnancy signs! I know it's impossibly hard to tell AF signs from pregnancy signs, but I'll be excited to find out what happens!


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## SierraJourney

I was looking at those colored bins, too. . .but didn't know if they'd hold larger toys or just trinkets? I've never seen one in person, so I have no clue! 

I was wondering if that musical table would be a good gift to get Camden or not. . . he doesn't have a lot of things in the playroom to stand up to, so I thought that might encourage it? He really likes all of his toys, but gets bored of them easily and I have to switch them out. I'll take it though! :)

I forget that Camden is still on the small side! lol He's not even 20 pounds yet (close, though!) and his infant seat goes up to 30 pounds. It only goes up to 30 inches long though. .. and he's 28.5. . . so I'm thinking it's close to switching. If you don't mind my asking, what carseat do you have with the good safety reviews?


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## DragonflyWing

We had a nice Christmas here. Slept in, watched the kids open and play with their gifts (they loved ripping the paper!). They got mostly clothes, but some toys too. My mom got them a little play laptop that spells words and sings songs, and a book that plays music and tells stories... and I got them a little playschool dump truck and a set of stacking/nesting barrels. I felt a little inadequate until I realized they like the barrels better than all the electronic stuff! They played for over an hour together on the floor and had a great time.

After that, we went out to a Chinese buffet for dinner. The twins were very well behaved and it was fun. The day went by much too quickly! I'm back at work now and wishing for the weekend.

Anyone have Christmas pictures? Here are some of ours from yesterday:
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh my gosh Dragon--those are darling pictures! What sweet kids! We were so sick that we really didn't take pictures.. . :( I think my mum snapped a few, so I'll have to get them from her. . .


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## wamommy

Dragon, how cute!! I can't believe how big the twins are getting. Look at Lily standing like a pro! 

I think I have a couple of pics, but DH is loading music on my phone at the moment, so I'll have to post them later! :haha:

Sierra, Max is in the Recaro Proride, and my girls are in the Prosport. It's hard to find them in stores, but ebay and Amazon have them. The only consideration is that they're BIG, but that's part of what makes them so safe, I think.

Max's
https://recaropromotion.com/default.html

The bigger one (goes up to 120 pounds!!) for the girls
https://recaropromotion.com/performanceSport.html


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! I'm going to go take a look!


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## Kellen

Dragon - The twins are getting so big! Happy Belated Birthday to them as well. I can't believe that at this time a year ago you were in the NICU with them. It seems like yesterday that we were looking at pictures of them with tubes and whatnot and praying that you'd get to take them home soon. Congrats on having beautiful and thriving toddlers.

Sierra - We were thinking of getting the Maxi Cosi as our next convertible car seat. It is a bit pricey, but it has excellent ratings. As for another baby. I would love any child that we have, but at this time. No, I don't really want another baby. I would like to have Teagen out of diapers before we think about having a second one. I would also like to be a little more financially secure. However, we'll see what next week brings. 

With Teagen I was 100% convinced we had conceived during the TWW and wasn't at all surprised at our BFP. This time I don't know my own mind. Half of the time I know I'm not, but then the other have I am convinced I am. Right now, for example. I am battling being terribly nauseous and the thought of eating anything makes me turn green.

Today it clicked with Teagen. She can walk. All by herself. It is seriously cute and kind of funny. She will take a few steps and then start going faster. Since she hasn't learned how to slow down when she starts to fall forward she launches herself straight out as far as she can go before she hits the ground and takes off at a mad crawl. I simply must video it and try to find someway to post it on here.

On Christmas morning DH and I woke Teagen up by singing Christmas carols to her. Now, bear in mind, DH can't carry a tune in a bucket. Once she finally woke up she looked at us and sort of crossed her arms in front of her. DH asked: "What sign is that?" I said I think it is "baby." She then proceeded to sign out "baby signing time" which is the name of her DVD's. Yep, parents singing got the boot in favor of Baby Signing Time... I felt loved.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I would LOVE to see a video of Teagen walking!! I'll bet it's so cute. :D I'm so impressed by her signing, too. It sounds like she has a really big vocabulary and definitely knows what she wants! 

Max is still not crawling... lol. I'm a tad worried, but not too much. I think part of the problem is that I simply don't give him enough time on the floor to figure it out. He freaks out and screams after only a couple of minutes on his tummy, and probably only about 5 minutes sitting playing with toys. He always wants to be held or sitting up at the table with us. I suppose at some point he'll figure it out? :shrug: This was never an issue with the girls... They were up and walking by now! ah well.

I made a list of baby names that I like. It's not complete... more of a brainstorm. I already told DH that_* I *_am choosing the name this time, since he cornered me into names he liked the last 2 times. Which ones do you like??


Girl:

Aveline
Fiona
Violet
Isla
Quinn
Lyla
Serafina
Vivienne

Boy:

Luca
Jack
Finn
Quinn
Leo
Atticus

I'm also looking for "virtue" middle names for both boys and girls, and so far I've come up with Serenity and Felicity for girls and Pax for a boy. We already have kids with middle names Grace, Hope, Faith and Love...


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## helena

I vote Violet and Leo :) I love violet but couldn't have it here as the french say it all wrong. We considered Leona for Kiara, A kind of girly Version of Leo.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--yes, definitely post a video of Teagen walking! That's so exciting!!

What day are you testing/expecting AF? I'm getting antsy! ;)

wamommy, for a girl, I vote Aveline! I LOVE that!! Fiona also---that's the name that DH and I have picked out for our girl (if we ever have one or another child, for that matter! :haha: ) We've had that name picked out before we were even pregnant with Camden. We could have girls with the same name! :) I love it. 

It's funny because we also had the name "Finn" picked out for a boy---possibly our second (again, if we even have another child!) Sounds like you and I like the same sorts of names! :) However, Atticus is standing out to me because it is such a STRONG name---LOVE it. :)

All of your names are lovely, though----I think it's about time your DH lets you use them! :)


Camden has "second Christmas" with DH's folks yesterday. Got tons more toys and some cute clothes. He was thrilled with all of the new stuff and commotion. :) Cutie pie.


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## SierraJourney

Those of you with Ergo carriers----do you use it with your baby now still? I found a brand new one that someone is selling for $65--great price! I want to keep carrying Camden, but DH thinks I won't this summer because he'll be too big. The website says they go up to 45lbs.. . but realistically, have you stopped using yours or do you think it's worth the investment? Camden's carrier is almost too small for him now. . .and he has hated his stroller (haven't tried it in a few months though). . .so, I'm getting tempted to buy this Ergo!


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## Kellen

I still use mine and plan to for a while. DH uses it with T on his back.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen. I'm going to see if I can convince DH to let me get it. :) 

I'm kind of annoyed. . .MIL has this habit of saying, "I want to come up and babysit---so you guys can have a date". Which SEEMS nice, but it just irks me that SHE tells us that she wants to babysit. I just wish she'd wait until we ASK her to come babysit. She wants to come up this weekend and watch Camden. . . but I really don't want to go out and I really don't want to have to clean the house for company again. We just spent tons of time out for the holidays, and I really just want a weekend by myself! I feel like it's just so inconvenient for me to have to plan to go out, get stuff ready for a babysitter to come over, etc.. . when I'd rather spend the weekend in my pjs watching movies with DH. I know I have problems with MIL anyways. . .but this really gets to me. . . And what gets me more is that I *know* DH wants to go out. . .so he'll probably say "yes". . . which I want time with him too. . .I'm just sooooo tired after the holidays that it seems like more hassle than anything. . . *sigh*


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## wamommy

If I could use my Ergo right now I totally would! I don't think they're rated for pregnant women... :haha: Whenever we go to the mall or the store etc, I end up carrying Max because he screams for me in the stroller. My left arm is SUPER strong from carrying him, lol... but I'd much prefer to have him in a carrier. 

Sierra, have you told DH you just want to cuddle up in pjs and watch movies with him? I can totally understand being "peopled out" and not wanting to clean up again after the holidays. Stick to your guns and ask for what you need! You deserve a break. :hugs:

Thank you ladies for your name opinions! It's so tough! It will be fun to choose one I like this time, because every name on BOTH of those lists was vetoed by DH last time. :rofl: It's funny that you and I have such similar tastes, Sierra! :D

I'm actually quite sad today. My Mom sent me an email yesterday criticizing my parenting (it's complicated and a long story, but that's the gist) and I wrote back a seething email telling her she had no right to criticize me. We haven't had a "fight" in 15 years, so it's caught me a bit off guard. I just don't get it. Why now? It's so weird. She hasn't written back or called, so I'm guessing we both just need some cooling off time.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--- that's how I am with Camden, too--he screams for me in the stroller, so carriers are ideal! 

I told DH earlier (when my family wanted to come visit this weekend) that I'm tired of people. . .but I haven't spoke with him since his mum called me this afternoon. . .I'm dreading it. . .it usually is a totally different story with him when it's HIS mum...we shall see. I'd be okay with it if she came after we put Camden to bed, let us go out to a movie or something, then left.. . but I know she'd want to be here during the day to see Camden and then she'd probably stay the night and want to see him the next day too.. . .and then my weekend would be over. . .which is so precious since I work all week long. . . *sigh*

I'm so sorry to hear that your mum wrote such a mean email. I wonder why? To me, it looks like you have a great parenting style! Your kids seem lovely! Something I keep having to tell myself is that everyone is going to think we should be doing it differently--but they don't know your child(ren) like you do. And we kind of have to just go with what is right for US and ignore those who criticize. My younger sister is so uplifting in this area---she always says: "It's your baby--you decide", whereas my older sister criticizes me a lot. I just shrug it off when I can (but it's sooo hard!) :hugs: you're doing great, wamommy!! I hope it resolves soon for you!! :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen said:


> Today it clicked with Teagen. She can walk. All by herself. It is seriously cute and kind of funny. She will take a few steps and then start going faster. Since she hasn't learned how to slow down when she starts to fall forward she launches herself straight out as far as she can go before she hits the ground and takes off at a mad crawl. I simply must video it and try to find someway to post it on here.

I'm sitting here giggling over that mental image. I need to see it! Way to go Teagen!



wamommy said:


> I made a list of baby names that I like. It's not complete... more of a brainstorm. I already told DH that_* I *_am choosing the name this time, since he cornered me into names he liked the last 2 times. Which ones do you like??
> 
> 
> Girl:
> 
> Aveline
> Fiona
> Violet
> Isla
> Quinn
> Lyla
> Serafina
> Vivienne
> 
> Boy:
> 
> Luca
> Jack
> Finn
> Quinn
> Leo
> Atticus
> 
> I'm also looking for "virtue" middle names for both boys and girls, and so far I've come up with Serenity and Felicity for girls and Pax for a boy. We already have kids with middle names Grace, Hope, Faith and Love...

I like Serafina and Jack!


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## Kellen

I am a huge fan of Quinn. In fact, once, at the beginning of our pregnancy DH and I had discussed using Quincy as a name for either a boy or girl. Finn was also on my list for a boy.

Does anyone have exciting plans for tonight? My parents are baby sitting for us. Our exciting plans include going out to eat (by ourselves!) and then going to see Saving Mr. Banks. I seriously doubt we'll manage to stay up until midnight to ring in the New Year. The movie starts at 8:40 so we'll be home before midnight.

Oh, and no testing will be going on here. AF returned with a vengeance. I did manage to capture Teagen on video. Now I am going to go see if I can link it here.


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## Kellen

https://youtu.be/kOz-7JZWuzc
Here she is in all her wobbly glory.


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## SierraJourney

Oh my gosh Kellen---that is SO cute!! And sooo impressive! Camden is still pulling himself along with his hands---his legs trailing behind. . .lol. . .not even a proper crawl yet. He can't even pull himself up to things yet. If I prop him on something, he can hang on for a bit standing up. . .but that's about it! And Teagen just gets cuter by the day!! 

Our plans are staying in, watching a movie, and going to bed way before midnight! :) We might go see the Desolation of Smaug this weekend (huge LOTR fans here! :blush: ) Let me know how you like Saving Mr Banks---it looks really good!


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## Kellen

I have been a huge Tolkien fan since the 90s, but I am ticked off at the addition of Tauriel in the newest Hobbit so I am boycotting it. LOL. I am a purist snob.


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## wamommy

Oh my goodness, Teagen is such a big girl!! She's such a great walker, too! I am also very impressed. What a cutie, Kellen! :D I'm sorry to hear AF made an appearance (or happy she did? lol... If you guys are wanting to wait). At least you know now. I still can't get over that video. Poor Mister Max is still working on crawling, too... :haha: I can't wait for him to start toddling around!

Our plans tonight are probably just staying in and watching something on Netflix. I haven't seen a movie in the theater in over 5 years! How sad is that? :rofl: I'll probably wake the kids up at 11:30 or so and let them watch the countdown and fireworks on the Space Needle with us. I'm not really in a go-on-a-date-with-DH mood anyhow. He picked a fight with me last night and said some truly inappropriate things to me in front of the girls. (he yelled "suck my d---" at me :( ) I was up all night last night thinking about all of the ways I'm stuck with an absolute ass for a husband. :( What is WITH everyone attacking me these days? I swear they're like sharks and start swarming when I'm weak or injured. 

I read the Tolkien books over and over as a kid but have yet to watch one of the movies. :blush: I'm always afraid they just won't live up to my imagination and I'll be disappointed. Is that the case with all of the Lord of the Rings series??


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## SierraJourney

oh wamommy---I am so sorry! That is sooo inappropriate of your DH to say in front of your girls--I would be livid! (Along with the fact that I would be livid that he said that to me in the first place!) I am so sorry your marriage is so rough. Is there anything you can do---counseling? Maybe even separate for a bit or something? I hope something happens so you don't have to be so stressed about it. :( We're here if you need anything.

The LOTR movies are amazing. Absolute amazing. However, you have to set aside the fact that they won't be 100% like the books. . .as with most movies. *sigh* But, if you're able to put that on the table and enjoy the similarities and the amazing work that went into the movies, I'd recommend them COMPLETELY! I love them.


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## SierraJourney

Well, I bought the Ergo! I'm so excited! Camden liked it when I tried it on around the house. Now, I need it to get warm so I can tote him around outside! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, that video is amazing! Teagen is SO cute!! I can't believe how well she's walking already :D

Gunnar is crawling for real now, and pulling himself up to cruise on everything. He's a little bruised up though, because he hasn't figured out what will support his weight and what will not, so he takes some spills. Yesterday, he wanted something out of his reach on the coffee table, so he climbed up onto the bottom part of his walker to get some extra height. He didn't take into account the _wheels_, though, and I caught him just as it rolled out from under him and he was about to hit the corner of the table. :wacko: I think it's a matter of weeks until he's walking or at least standing alone.

Lily hasn't started crawling or pulling up yet, but she scoots around on her tummy and will cruise if you stand her up. However, she has started the constant questions already! I thought I had some time before that started.

"What's that? What's this? What's that? That. That! THAT!!"

We have pictures of all the cousins and aunts and uncles on the fridge, and she points to each one and wants us to name them so she can try to say each name. 

Me: "That's Keira." 
Lily: "Kya!"

Me: "This is Finn."
Lily: "Enn!"

Me: "That's Aunt Shannon."
Lily: "Nana!"

We can't walk anywhere near the fridge without going through the whole process. Gunnar on the other hand, is just like 'put me down so I can destroy something!' :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---I can't believe Lily is talking so much---that's awesome! Camden says "dadada" and "mamama" but not in context! lol

Both of the twins sound just so great---kudos to you!! 

I hope you are doing well!

I wanted to share this with all of you ladies. .. I found it and fell in love with it:

https://weseekjoy.blogspot.com/2013/12/babies-ruin-bodies.html


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## wamommy

Dragon, the twins sound like a hoot! Poor Gunnar and his crashing, lol. He'll be one tough little guy! Lily sounds like quite the talker, too. How cute! :D How are you doing?

Sierra, that blog is beautiful! It's so very, very true. The line about our bodies, "If anything, I was ruined by the world before I knew her & she made me whole again." almost made me cry! It's SO true. It's like the world forgot what our bodies are FOR. I had a lot of body image and food issues as a teenager, and becoming a Mom has finally made me accept my body for the first time, in all it's wobbliness. That said, I have a weigh-in at the Doctor this afternoon, and I'm prepared for the "omg" moment when I hear the number. I think Christmas has done a number on my weight! Oh well... this blog helped me realize that it's ok and even beautiful!!


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## SierraJourney

I completely agree wamommy---that line is so powerful. I love the line: "Lightning bolts on my sides proving I once was too small to contain all of the love that filled me". It made me hug my baby a little tighter and reward myself with a bit of chocolate. :) 

I hope your weigh in goes well! Keep us posted how things are going! My sister is due with her baby any day now. I got to feel it kick yesterday. . . made me miss feeling a cute little baby inside me.


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## wamommy

Good luck to your sister, Sierra! How exciting to welcome a new little niece/nephew! 

I forgot to say grats on the Ergo, too. How do you like it so far?

My doctor appointment went well. I gained 5 pounds this month! I like to think it's because it was an afternoon appointment and I usually go in the morning, but I think Christmas cookies and chocolates have more to do with it! :haha: I finally got over pre-pregnancy weight, which made my OB happy. :D I am measuring 23 inches at 23 weeks, so perfect there, and the heart rate was 152. All in all it was a great, easy appointment! It was good timing, too... I've been feeling really self-conscious about my weight and the blog you posted Sierra, along with knowing the baby is doing well makes me put things in perspective. It just doesn't help when DH says things like, "wow, you went from 0-9months over night!" and points at my tummy. It HAS exploded, but still. This is what always happens about now in pregnancy, and it seems to be my normal. :shrug: I will also be rewarding myself with chocolate this evening. :happydance:

Strange question, but what size diapers is everyone using? Max is in size 3, but it's starting to seem too small and leak a lot. I have some size 4s, but they seem way too big! I bought a lot off of Craigslist from someone who works for a trucking company who damaged the boxes so we bought around 1000 Huggies for $140 (half size 3, half size 4) and we're barely through one size 3 box! I hate to have him grow out of them so soon.


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## Kellen

Dragon - The twins sound like a wonderful pair. One kamakazi and one chatter box. I don't remember if I mentioned, but I loved their Christmas pictures. They are adorable. I can't believe how much our babies are all beginning to look like "real" miniature people instead of just babies. I guess the twins are technically toddlers now!

Sierra - Congrats on the Ergo! I hope that Camden is liking it as much as you do. I know I love mine. When Teagen was teething it was the only way shopping was going to happen for Christmas. It is nice to have them contained and we have figured out how to BF pretty easily it in without flashing the entire world. :)

Wamommy - Need me to drive up and kick your DH in the shin? That wasn't very nice of him to say, especially in front of kids. I'm glad to hear that the baby is measuring on track and doing well! If Max doesn't get moving on his own pretty quick I am sure he will once the baby arrives. Teagen would wear size 4 diapers if we weren't 100% cloth (even nighttime! So proud!). But she is long and lean.

I finally bought us a second car seat today. It is an Alpha Omega Safety First Elite. They normally run around $180, but I snagged it for $85. Fred Meyer's (subsidy of Kroger) was having a huge baby sale this week and they had it advertised for $99.99. Well, my store was out, but another store about 45 minutes away had two left in stock and they were willing to hold it for me. Well, with the 15% off coupon from the newspaper I walked away with a really nice car seat for a really nice price. Kinda proud of myself.

Teagen is pretty much refusing to crawl now that she has decided walking by herself is the best. She screamed at me when I wouldn't let her walk alone in the Costco parking lot today. :rofl: Getting her to sleep has become a cinch with a lovely bedtime routine... not having her wake up a hundred million times has yet to happen. We sit in the dark; nurse for 20 minutes and stare at each other; I start singing as I lower her into the crib; she tussles around while I sing two songs; I walk away and she sleeps for about 2 hours before she wakes up.

We did have one good night of sleep, but then the next day we noticed that we have 3 more teeth coming in. I will be sooo, sooo glad when she finally has all her pearly whites. I've been crashing at 8pm and making DH take care of her until he goes to bed at midnight. I need more than 45 minutes at a time.

Helena - How is everything across the pond?


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## SierraJourney

So far, I really like the Ergo, but have only tried it for a bit in the house. I want to go to the mall or something and give it a good try. . .but I'm kinda clumsy putting it on still. . . need more practice. :)

We're 100% cloth here, too, but if he were in disposables, it'd be a size 3. 

Kellen--that'd be so awesome if I could breastfeed in the Ergo! It's so hard to nurse in public anymore because Camden tears away the blanket that I cover him with. . .and he hates not looking around. .. and lately he's all about trying to sit up while he's nursing! :haha:

wamommy---I'd love to see your new "bump" picture! :) And please don't get down about your weight---you are such a tiny person as it is. . .and it's natural to gain weight with pregnancy---and actually really really good! You look fabulous every time I've seen a picture of you. Society has a way of making us all very down on our bodies. .. and it's so sad. :( Please re-reaed that article whenever you are feeling down about your weight!

Great deal on the carseat Kellen! We'll probably start off with one seat for now (once we pick out a convertible carseat), but I'd love to have two. We have two bases for the infant seat right now and I love the flexibility of having the seat in both cars. 

It sure sounds like Teagen has a rough time teething. . . Poor girl. :( Camden's still a little fuss-monster most of the time, so it's hard for me to ever tell if he's teething or just being himself! :haha: Only two top and two bottom teeth for us so far. 

Congrats on being 100% cloth! What have you decided to do for nighttime cloth diapers? Camden requires so many hemp inserts for bed that his little butt is HUGE at night with that big diaper on! :haha:


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## wamommy

Kellen, yes please drive up and kick DH in the shin (or somewhere else!)... He's acting like that fight never happened, too... which I think is weird. He even tried to cop a feel last night, and then got all quiet and hurt when I walked away! LOL Men...

We're still working on the 2 top teeth, here! Maybe that's why Max has been so fussy lately?? They've popped through, but still look red and painful. 

Kellen, your nighttime routine sounds great! Ours consists of me holding Max until he's asleep and then holding my breath as I lower him into his crib... :haha: I need to figure out a better system! He won't go to sleep on his own, so DH wants to try to let him cry it out, but that's SO hard for me. I feel physically ill when he screams for me. I need to do something, though, because not teaching him how to sleep on his own isn't doing him any favors either! 

Sierra, I just had DH take a bump picture and I'm trying really hard to take your advice and not fixate on the weight gain! The BABY is growing too. I just need to remember that. We're about to go to a buffet, which we NEVER go to, but DH wants to start his New Year's diet tomorrow and wants a last giant meal before he starts. I wanted to take this picture before I'm even bigger from eating a ton!
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy, you look fabulous!! Such a cute little bump! Go eat a ton because you're looking super!!


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, you look great! :)

The twins are in size 4 diapers now, fitting Gunnar just right and a little baggy on Lily. I hope they'll be in this size a while, because we got two cases of diapers for Christmas! Yay! That saves us so much money. Now that the twins are on formula, that's costing us about $170 a month that we don't have, so not having to buy diapers is really nice. 

Thanks for asking how I'm doing. I'm feeling a lot better on my new medication...I have more energy and my mood is generally much better. I'm on the right track, I think. Hopefully I can get to a point where I don't need 5 different medications to function!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - You look amazing. I gained 60lb with Teagen so I think you are doing pretty fantastic! You look very svelt. Men are not ruled by common sense at times. 

Dragon - I am so pleased for you that this new medication regime is helping. And huzzah for extra diapers! Not having to spend money is awesome. Cloth diapers are a bit of work, but they certainly give us a little financial wiggle room to do a few fun things now and again, but I can't imagine trying to cloth diaper twins... Basically I can't imagine doing anything with twins.

Sierra - Teagen is not a night pee-er. Even when she was a newborn we didn't have to do a bunch of changes at night. But for her nighttime diaper we use two blended inserts and those last until the first morning pee. If we catch it in time or she signs or says "poop" we can avoid a super soggy diaper by putting her on the toilet.

Today Teagen crawled maybe three times, the rest of the time she was up and walking by herself. Now that she has discovered she doesn't need a grown up to hold on to she will try to yank her hand out of yours so she can do it herself. :dohh: Miss Independent wants to do it ALL by herself.

I can't believe that Kiara is going to be one at the end of this month and the rest of us are coming up on 11 months. I remember being so miserable at this time last year and having to go away to training for two different weeks in January. I'm half convinced my public speaking instructor passed me because he was scared I was going to go into labor during my presentation if he stressed me too much.


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## helena

Hi ladies, happy new year!!!!!! We just got back yesterday from the uk, it was fun. 

Well done Lily talking!! We have no words in context, but Kiara does shake her head from side to side each time I say no. She repeatedly does things I will say no to so she can show off and shake again :) monkey. I actually told her off a few times recently - for example when she stands and slaps my parents tv - I was firm but not loud and she stopped but cried each time. So she clearly understands :)

And today she walks.. Hope this link will work.. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/11758689434


Wamommy you look fantastic xxx


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## SierraJourney

Wow helena! Good job Kiara walking! That's incredible! 

I've told Camden firmly "no" a couple of times, too. . .he lays his little head on the floor and wails. :(


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## helena

Kellen said:


> https://youtu.be/kOz-7JZWuzc
> Here she is in all her wobbly glory.


:thumbup::happydance::dance::p


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## helena

Oh, and I must brag - apart from one night, Kiara has slept through from 7pm ish until 6am ish each night for the last 10 nights!!! It's amazing. Night feeds are gone. I would feel amazing if I hadn't got over excited at the prospect of not having to get up in the night and enjoyed myself with a few festive drinks each night over the holidays!

Am so pleased though :)


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## wamommy

Oh my goodness, Helena, Kiara is adorable! That was too cute! Max smiled as we watched it and pointed to the screen. Hopefully he gets the hint that it's what he's supposed to do! :haha:

Well done sleeping through the night, too! We still wake to feed and fuss a few times a night, but it's SO much better than it was the first few months that I really can't complain. What's the secret Helena?

I tell Max "no" and he smiles and shakes his head back and forth violently... lol. If I'm really serious and a bit too loud or firm (like when he head butts me) he will start to cry. It's so sad! 

Dragonfly, I'm so glad that your meds seem to be helping and that you're doing well. Yay! :D I can imagine taking care of 2 babies and working is hard enough without having to deal with the stuff you have been lately. I'm so relieved and happy to hear that things are looking up. :happydance:

Thank you all for your nice comments about my bump! I went maternity shopping today because all of my shirts are too short. I HATE when the band of my pants shows. It's so tough because I'm tall, so even maternity shirts are often too short. Anyhow, we went to Old Navy and H&M and I found a couple of shirts that I'll order online. I left the mall with nothing because I almost burst into tears when I walked out of the dressing room to show DH a shirt (that I thought looked quite good) and he said I looked "explosive." :( I wish I could just implant a common sense chip into his brain!


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## helena

The key to sleep is eating I am sure of it. Kiara is eating lots. A much sometimes as my three year old!


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## helena

wamommy said:


> Oh my goodness, Helena, Kiara is adorable! That was too cute! Max smiled as we watched it and pointed to the screen. .....

Cute! Maybe they can be pen pals one day! X


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## Kellen

Helena - Congrats to Kiara on those wonderful steps. She is amazingly adorable.

I wish that food was the answer for Teagen's sleep. She eats a ton on somedays and then not as much on other days, but it doesn't seem to impact her sleeping habits. For instance, yesterday she ate baby oatmeal, toast, applesauce, scrambled eggs and some of my oatmeal for breakfast. For lunch she had turkey, applesauce and pear slices. For dinner she ate some butternut squash and risotto with quinoa. Yet she went to bed at 7, woke up at 11:30, 1:30, 3 and 5 to finally get up at 7:20. When she wakes up at night she doesn't really cry, just sort of sits up and looks around and whines until someone goes and comforts her.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I feel your pain. Max was doing slightly better with sleep, but the last 2 nights have been SO hard. Last night he woke up at 4am and refused to go back to sleep until 5:45. :( My 5-year-old came to my bed crying and asked me to make him stop crying. It was so sweet. She said, "maybe he needs a baba. Did you try rocking him?" I honestly don't know what to do. I'm panicking because the new baby will be here in a couple of months and THEN what? How am I supposed to take a newborn AND Max in the middle of the night? I'm seriously stressed today...

On a happier note, Max has 4 real teeth now! It's so cute when he smiles. His front top teeth are surprisingly large. :haha:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy, I'm glad I am not the only one who's lo's top teeth seem unusually large! I'm wondering if that's normal? Camden's are spaced quite a bit apart, too. 

I'm sorry to hear about the night waking. Camden was awake a few times in the night most nights last week ---is there an 11 month growth spurt or something?!

I'm sure it doesn't seem like it, but you'll get in a routine with Max and the new baby once it comes--and who knows, maybe Max will sleep through the night at that time?! My sister is going through something similar---her baby is due in 2 weeks, and her 2 year old gets up several times at night and is "up for the day" at 3a.m.! She's stressed about having two awake in the middle of the night, too. I'll have to keep you updated on how she does! Poor dear. 

One thing that I think has *started* helping Camden sleep better this week is I started giving him snacks. I was giving him "snacks" before, but they were mainly cheerio-type things in between meals. This week, I have been giving him mini-meals in between meals. (Today, in between breakfast and lunch, he had a 1/3 cup of black beans and 1/2 an avocado; and in between lunch and dinner he had 1/2 banana and some cereal). He eats it like crazy. . .so I'm guessing he wasn't satisfied with the small snacks I was giving him before.. . .and he's sleeping much better. Maybe it's a coincidence. . .I'm not sure. .. but I know he is loving the bigger snacks! :)


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## helena

Up for the day at 3!!!!! Omg........

Think Kiara has her first molars coming in. She sobs in her sleep and keeps biting us :( poor girl


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## Kellen

Poor baby! So glad they don't remember this pain.


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## wamommy

Oh yikes, poor babies! Teething stinks! At least once they're in the pain will go away. 

My 4-year-old spiked a 103 fever last night. :( I'm at home watching her like a hawk! Thank goodness for Children's Motrin. It broke the fever in 45 minutes, but she's been asleep on the couch all morning.


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## helena

Kellen said:


> Helena - Congrats to Kiara on those wonderful steps. She is amazingly adorable.
> 
> I wish that food was the answer for Teagen's sleep. She eats a ton on somedays and then not as much on other days, but it doesn't seem to impact her sleeping habits. For instance, yesterday she ate baby oatmeal, toast, applesauce, scrambled eggs and some of my oatmeal for breakfast. For lunch she had turkey, applesauce and pear slices. For dinner she ate some butternut squash and risotto with quinoa. Yet she went to bed at 7, woke up at 11:30, 1:30, 3 and 5 to finally get up at 7:20. When she wakes up at night she doesn't really cry, just sort of sits up and looks around and whines until someone goes and comforts her.

Quinoa, yum. I should try K with that, she loves couscous.
I just try to boost calories all the time. Kiara has cheese grated on most dinners. I feel every calorie may help my sleep!.it has certainly helped her thighs! Lol 

Today she had a weetabix, a slice of toast with butter and a hint of jam, apple purée, mid morning more purée and biscuit, lunch spaghetti with bolognaise, followed by cubes of cheese, yogurt then half banana, afternoon snack of milk, then some baby puff whatsits. Dinner was potato and bolognaise. She got bored of that half way through so she then had some of her brothers pasta with broccoli and bacon then more yogurt and raisins. Then milk before bed. She doesn't drink that much milk anymore, maybe 400ml if I am lucky, so I'm glad she loves yogurt. The doctor did say I could try chocolate milk etc if it will get her drinking more. S maybe I will do that soon.

Hope your daughter gets better quick for you wamommy. It's hard for child AND mummy when they are unwell! X


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---so sorry to hear your daughter is so sick! I'd be sooo worried with that high of a fever! :( Poor doll. :(

helena---sounds like Kiara is such a good little eater! Camden LOVEs quinoa!! I've been noticing Camden's thighs are getting bigger with the increased snacks and meals, too. He, however, nurses all of the time. . .I'm getting a bit worried how I am going to wean him off it! :haha: 

How long is everyone going to nurse/formula feed? I'm not sure when the formula feeding usually stops, but I've heard breastfeeders wean anywhere from 1 year to 3 years?


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## wamommy

We pretty much feed Max whatever we're eating! I certainly think we could be healthier with his diet. Today he's had a whole orange cut up (his fave right now), a string cheese, and some toast with butter and jam. For lunch we're planning a bagel with cream cheese and turkey with some crackers. 

I'm terrible about weaning, Sierra. I'm SUCH a sucker for a crying toddler who wants a bottle. I usually go down to just a bed time bottle by about 18 months-2 years, but try to loose the bottle altogether by 2. I'm not even sure what the formula-fed recommendations are, but I think it's 1 year? That just seems so soon! I kind of like knowing that whatever Max's diet was that day, he's getting balanced nutrition and vitamins through his bottles. :shrug: He probably still drinks close to 64 ounces a day still!!


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## helena

Kiara is already on cows milk.

My eldest son was really ill in past years, lots of fevers. He had pneumonia a few times. Suddenly at 5 he seems so much healthier. Anyways, My pediatrician told me she doesn't consider a high fever to be anything below 104. We reached that a few times. As long as the drugs work keep taking it, alternating ibuprofen and paracetamol each 3 or 4 hours, but I bet u know that. After 4 years of regular high fevers, every 6 weeks in the cold season, I feel pretty well trained in fever management xxxx


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## DragonflyWing

We tried switching to cow's milk when I stopped pumping (I wanted to avoid formula if possible) right at their first birthday, but both babies broke out in a rash, so we decided to hold off for a while. 

However, formula is just as bad...we actually had to take them to urgent care last night because their diaper rash got so bad they were bleeding. We tried every cream and ointment we could find and it would help for a little while and then come back worse. They gave us some antifungal cream in case it's yeast, but if it doesn't get better by tomorrow we have to go back. They never had this problem on breast milk! I would say they drink about 30-35 oz of formula a day, plus 2 meals that usually consist of fruit/veggie/meat purees, cut up steamed veggies, oatmeal, yogurt, puffs, and those Gerber corn "li'l crunchies," which they adore. They have little bits of what we're eating sometimes, but with so little time to cook, I have to admit that DH and I don't eat very healthy these days. We're trying to improve little by little, but we want the kids to have only the best nutrition, so we don't feed them our diet of frozen pizza and canned soup! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Wow Dragon---I'm sorry to hear about the problems with cow's milk and formula! Would soy formula be better? I used to give Camden a small bottle of formula when I went to work meetings (because I can't get very much pumping. ..so annoying. . .and I refuse to nurse in front of my bosses . ;) , and he would get sick on regular formula, so we had to switch to soy. 

Wamommy---I don't know how many ounces Camden drinks from nursing, but he nurses usually 6 times a day still! I don't plan on taking it away from him anytime soon, but I have an overnight class in May for 3 days that I'm wondering if I should wean him beforehand/take him and a sitter with me/or try to pump? So annoyed that my bosses are making me go when I'm still breastfeeding! :(


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## SierraJourney

Also, I went through sooo many diaper creams with Camden when he was in disposables. He rarely gets a rash now, but when he does, I swear I've found a miracle cream! Coconut oil works AMAZINGLY! If that doesn't work, GroVia Magic Stick and CJ's butt butter w/lavender and tea tree oil clear it up almost instantly! (Seriously, I see results after each diaper change!) 

Also, DH and I try to work on our diet too because we want to feed Camden what we're eating. I found some great "canned soups" that are really healthy and organic--- the brand is "Amy's" Since I'm a vegetarian, I eat a lot of Amy's brand. . .but the soups are wonderful for a quick meal, and Camden LOVES them!


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## Kellen

I pretty much feed Teagen whatever I eat, which is (thankfully) pretty healthy most of the time. Right now I'm doing the "Daniel Fast" which means I am basically eating Vegan, but I am still giving Teagen meat. I can't do dairy well at the best of times. We've given Teagen a couple slices of cheese, but it makes her super congested.

We are still nursing like crazy here and have no plans to wean until after her second birthday (unless she suddenly decides to stop one day). She nurses at least 4 times during the day and then at least 3 times at night.

Dragon - Sorry to hear about the rash. I ditto on coconut oil.


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## wamommy

I second trying soy formula, Dragon. It can't hurt, and may help the rash? I'd never heard of using coconut oil for diaper rash, but it sounds like it really works! I saw a huge one on sale the other day at WinCo and should have bought one! Poor twins. :( Diaper rash is NO fun. 

One of my New Year's resolutions is to try to eat healthier foods. We usually eat what's cheap and fast to cook, which usually means not that healthy. :( Also, my stepdaughter is SUPER picky about food and won't touch anything "weird." She won't eat cooked vegetables, onions, sausage, tomato, any herb that even remotely LOOKS green, or anything she's never tasted before. It's infuriating. I can only make so much bland, plain food before I want to puke, though. I may just start cooking whatever I want and tell her, "this is dinner... If you're hungry, eat it. If not, go hungry." Otherwise I'll never be able to change our diet.

Max is yelling, "Mama, dat!!!" and pointing at his toy box. I better go set him up to play.


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Poor you. It seems like your family is always being hit by some bug or another. Also, isn't your step daughter in her teens? If she doesn't like what you are cooking then she can go make herself a sandwich. You need to take care of you and the little people in your life.

Dragon - Have you tried goats milk for the twins? I have heard/read that it is the closest substitute for human breastmilk that there is. Also, have you tried connecting with Human Milk 4 Human Babies or Eats on Feets? They are two great BM sharing communities where you can post your needs. If we lived closer I'd send some of my freezer stash your way for the twins. Teagen has a couple of milk brothers and sisters running around town that we share with.

Forget walking... it is all about running now. Forget sitting calmly in the shopping cart it is all about pushing the shopping cart or walking beside it. Life just became way more interesting! She is still a little wobbly with shoes on, but take off the shoes and give her bare feet or socks and she is off like a rocket. Her new thing is walking in a big circle and slowly making it smaller and smaller until she falls down dizzy and starts giggling.

My MIL discovered she has lumps in her breasts. :( She had a mammogram in November and it came back normal. I am praying that she is fine and just has naturally lumpy breasts caused by age. I feel horrible for DH because there is nothing we can do whether or not we are several thousand miles away.


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I agree with Kellen---fix what meals you and the children need and if your step-daughter does't like it, she make herself something!

Kellen--I'm sorry to hear about your MIL---but hopefully they are just benign lumps. My mom has lumps in her breasts too. . .but they are just benign and she gets checked every year to make sure they stay that way. 

I can't believe that Teagen is so active. . .my goodness what a fast-paced little girl! :)

AF showed up for the 4th time in less than two months. DH says: "Well that explains your moodiness!" Arghhhhhh I HATE when men blame it on that! Even if it is the case, I think they should just keep their mouths shut!


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## helena

I just got a slow cooker / crock pot. Love it! It's so easy to eat healthily using that. I only got it yesterday, but for two days now I made dinner in five spare quiet minutes in the mornings, left it to work its magic and by evening it's done and delicious like I spent hours working hard. So happy. 

We usually all eat together at lunch, DH works close so comes home, so Kiara and her brothers eat what we eat, then we have grown up dinner time in the evening after the kids have eaten and gone to bed ( so nice to not spoon feed or pick up dropped spoons et when eating dinner!). Kiara eats what her brothers eat most of the time.

I so recommend a crock pot for busy mums :)


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## Kellen

Sierra - It sounds like AF is just playing catch up since you were able to get such a nice break while BF Camden. But I agree, DH's have amazing capacities for saying just the wrong thing at just the right time. :dohh: A little sensitivity now and again wouldn't be too much to ask for... would it?

Helena - I agree that crock pots are amazing! My mom has this amazing oatmeal crock pot recipe that I've been eating on all week. Even DH and Teagen will eat it! So nice just to throw a bunch of stuff into the pot and have it smell delicious all day long before diving in at dinner time. It sounds like you have a very nice meal schedule and it is so nice that DH works close to home. I'm envious.

So today on Facebook one of my friends posted a recipe for teething biscuits. I was nursing Teagen so I decided to take a look. Here is the link: https://www.disneybaby.com/blog/the-easiest-homemade-teething-biscuits-ever/
Teagen is hooked! The premise is you take a piece of bread, trim off the crust, flatten the bread, spread applesauce over it, roll it up, microwave it for 60-90 seconds, cool and serve! It is so simple and takes very little time. Teagen likes it because it fits in her hand well and she can run around the house with it by herself.

This morning I was putting on my favorite nursing bra when all of a sudden: SNAP! The elastic band broke and smote my side. Ended up going to the maternity store 45 minutes away and walking out with 4 new nursing bras. Good thing today was payday! Teagen was super good. We went out for Thai food for lunch and she loved it. She ate almost all my cabbage and carrot soup and a good portion of my chicken from my garlic chicken dish. However, she won't touch white rice. Apparently she will only eat rice if it is spicy such as at a Mexican restaurant or Cajun style.


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## helena

Love her spicy rice tendancies :) my kids amaze me sometimes - they won't eat something apparently harmless and bland like carrot, but will wolf down Thai food with very sting garlic and ginger flavours.
One of the faves here is blended garlic and ginger (about a thumb size of a each) cooked off in a regular can size of coconut milk with chicken. I can add broccoli or spinach if I blend. Haven't got to far as to add coriander (you call this something else?..cilantro?) as it could well be the step too far...;) served with rice.

Funny creatures these little people. 

First tiny spike of molar tooth is through. Good. How many more teeth to go!? Such a bad design, all this tooth growing...

Kiara seems to be down to one nap a day. What a shame ;)

Happy weekend all. Xx


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm sorry AF is making another appearance! Isn't it easy for men to blame her for our moods? Whenever DH would point out my AF mood swings (or now pregnancy craziness) I just turn to him and say, "at least I have an excuse... what's yours?" :haha:

Helena, I've been thinking of getting a slow cooker! I had one years ago that was stolen when our house was broken into. They took just about everything, but I was still shocked they took our crock pot! Weird. Anyhow, it may be time to buy another one. The idea of throwing healthy foods in and letting them cook themselves all day sounds heavenly.

Kellen, well done buying yourself some new bras! That can make a huge difference in how you feel, can't it? I literally have ONE bra that fits me right now, since I'm not prepregnancy size and I don't fill out my 3rd tri or post baby bras. I've resorted to sports bras, etc, but I think I may take a trip to buy a new bra in the next day or 2.

I'm going to try that recipe for homemade teething biscuits. Thank you! I bet Max would love them. Kids are weird in what they like, aren't they? Max LOVES oranges, corn, peas, green beans and mango. He won't touch plain noodles. All of my kids have adored the rice at mexican restaurants, but won't touch white rice either! They have all loved mustard, too. 

Great, now I'm craving Thai food. :haha:

There was a storm here last night that knocked out power around 3am. Without the sound maker Max was up the rest of the night. I tried putting him under my big, warm comforter, but he still wouldn't sleep without the white noise. Remind me to put backup batteries in it!! The power finally came back on this morning at 7am, so I'm just waiting for DH to wake up to I can go take a little nap. The Seahawks (american football) play this afternoon and it's an elimination playoff game. If I want to nap I better do it LONG before the game starts. Once it's on DH turns into a football zombie and can't hear me if I yelled, "the house is on fire!" 

Helena, Max is down to one nap a day too... boo. It's usually around 2pm or so. Where does everyone's LO sleep when they're napping? Max is still on me or in his pack n play downstairs. If I even attempt to set him in his crib upstairs, nap over... :dohh:


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks for the formula/milk suggestions, I will look into those!

For naps, we're still at 2-3 per day for the most part. Lily naps in her crib 90% of the time. Occasionally she'll fall asleep on me or DH, but she usually tells us when she's tired and wants to sleep. Gunnar usually naps in the swing (which he's rapidly growing out of! I don't know what we'll do without it!), but sometimes naps in the pack n play if he falls asleep with his bottle.

Speaking of that, I know it's bad to let a baby sleep with their bottle, but is it bad if they fall asleep eating and then you take the bottle away? Often, Lily wants to eat just before she naps, and when she's ready to sleep she puts the bottle aside and turns over on her tummy. Is that still bad for her teeth, or is it just sleeping with the bottle in their mouth?


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## SierraJourney

Camden is still napping twice a day---and as of Friday, those naps have been in his crib. He was napping in his swing up until now and the motor is wearing down because he's too heavy for it. He protested napping in his crib up until now, and he does still whine a bit when I put him down and I have to go comfort him, and his naps are shorter in the crib---but it is so nice having him upstairs in his crib rather than downstairs in his swing where I have to tip-toe around him!

I'm not sure on th bottle thing Dragon, but I am a huge fan of doing whatever works for you as long as it's not harming baby. .. sounds okay to me! :)

We just started brushing Camden's teeth. The pediatrician says it's not necessary at this age, but I want him to get used to having a toothbrush in his mouth so I don't have to fight him to brush them later. He LOVES it (but this could also be because of the watermelon infant toothpaste too! ) :)

I have to say, since I'm breastfeeding, I've just been wearing a tank-top with a built in bra for the last 11 months. . .I put on a bra yesterday for the first time because I was feeling pretty frumpy lately. . .I can't believe how PAINFUL it was! :haha: Needless to say, I'm back to tank tops! ;) But, once Camden is nursing less often, I plan on getting a bra fitted to me so it's comfortable and I can look more feminine again. . .

Anyone else just feeling Ugly lately?! I can't get past it. I got my hair cut, thinking that was it. .. but it didn't help. I usually don't wear a lot of makeup, so I don't think that's it. . .I really don't have money to update my wardrobe. . .I've contemplated dying my hair, but not sure exactly what to do because I have very fragile, thin hair and I don't want to fry it off with dying it (are there any "safe" dyes?!) I'm trying to do some ab workouts when I can to try to flatten up my baby tummy. . .but I don't know. . . still just feel yucky and ugly. .. :( I'm sure it's just because I don't get to spend time on my appearance since I devote all of my energy to Camden and work, but it really has me down lately. :(


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## DragonflyWing

I feel the same way! I just cut 6" off my hair because I thought it would help me feel better (the funny part is that even after cutting it it's still mid-butt length and DH says it doesn't look any different!:haha:). I feel ugly and frumpy all the time, and I feel like none of my clothes fit correctly. I'm wearing all the same clothes I was wearing pre-pregnancy, but my body is a different shape now so it all feels wrong!


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry you guys are feeling down about your looks! I'm sure you look lovely, but I totally understand. Maybe it's the time of year? Maybe 1 year post partum brings out the frump in us? Who knows!? I know that I feel pretty yucky lately, too, but I mostly blame pregnancy weight and the inability to dye my hair. :( My new Old Navy maternity clothes arrived in the mail yesterday, so I hope that helps a little! 

Dragon, your hair sounds lovely! I miss my long hair sometimes, and know that 6 inches is a LOT, even if DH doesn't notice, lol.

Sierra, I just did some quick research on healthier hair dyes, and apparently European dyes are much better because they regulate the levels of chemicals in them and the US does not. I would look for a low ammonia hair dye or ask your salon about the most gently dye they have. If it would make you feel better about yourself, I say do it! 

On a totally unrelated note, Max is now combining words. :D He says, "got it!" and "Dat, Mama!" It's so cute. Now if he could only move when I put him on the floor. :dohh:


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## helena

Oh I feel like a frump too! Feel I have aged so much in the last year. I so need my hair cut, its frizzy, out of shape and always looks a mess. I feel frumpy every day at the school, compared to some of the french sophisticated mums who look so together, confident and shiny...

And don't get me started on my muffin tops....
Think I am 5 kilos over where I want to be.
I just can't quite find the energy to go for a run or anything. And I do so love a pizza and wine....bleurgh, why are all the nice things bad for us?!


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## DragonflyWing

I think part of the problem for me is that I really need to lose some weight. I gained 22lbs when I was pregnant, and then lost all of it +5 lbs within 2 weeks after the twins were born. HOWEVER, with being so depressed since then, I've gained 30 lbs!! That means I'm heavier now than I was at 32 weeks pregnant with twins :cry:

I need to get back on Weight Watchers. When I got pregnant, I had just lost 70 pounds on that program, so I know it works. I just need the motivation to start!


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## SierraJourney

Oh ladies--thank you so much! I'm sorry you all are in this too. . .but it feels so nice that I'm not the only one feeling this way! 

And helena--I totally understand not finding the energy to exercise. . and food is so COMFORTING sometimes! (I'm eating some chocolate as I type this. . . :haha: ) I'm back in my pre-pregnancy clothes, at my pre-pregnancy weight, but the shape of me is horrible---you are right---the muffin tops! I bought some higher-waisted jeans, which help. . but I only have one pair. . so the rest of the time, I look exactly like a muffin! :haha: 

I'm still debating about coloring my hair. I've always been against it (I love everything "natural"). .. but I need something to make me feel better. . .and I'm not even sure if hair color will help! And who knows what color to even dye it! ha! And in a lot of ways, it feels like one more "thing" I'd have to do. . .along with the laundry, cleaning, etc. . .who has time to get a hair color!? lol


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- why don't you try temporary color? That way it's not a permanent commitment, but you get to try something new. :) You could even go really exciting and put temporary purple streaks in ;) I did that a few years ago and it was super fun.


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## SierraJourney

DragonflyWing said:


> Sierra- why don't you try temporary color? That way it's not a permanent commitment, but you get to try something new. :) You could even go really exciting and put temporary purple streaks in ;) I did that a few years ago and it was super fun.

Ooo--I never even thought about that. . . did you do it yourself or does a salon do it?


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## DragonflyWing

I did it myself, but you could get it done at a salon if you wanted. I used manic panic hair dye.

If you wanted to stick with natural colors, there are dyes that wash out in 12-24 shampoos that you could try. Not sure of the brands, but they're in most drug stores/grocery stores.


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## wamommy

Temporary dye is a great idea! Just beware of any with red tones. I used one a long time ago thinking it would be temporary and it just faded but left a definite red tone to my hair until it grew out! They have probably improved the formula since 2001 though. :haha: I think it was an herbal essences one that I tried. 

I used to highlight my hair and loved the way it looked. It's about $70 every 3 months, though... and I just can't justify that expense right now. I also found some... GASP... WHITE HAIRS recently. :dohh: :dohh: I'm with you, Helena, I've aged a TON this year. I suddenly feel like my face "droops."

Dragon, it sounds like Weight Watcher worked really well for you! Are you able to start back up on it? Just being on it might make you feel better, since you know you're doing something for yourself. 

I know exactly what you all mean by the dreaded muffin top! Pre-pregnancy I had a serious insecurity about it. Now the muffin top stretches all the way around to my bump, so I just look like a lolli pop! Luckily maternity jeans mask it a little bit, since they don't cinch in at the waist at all. 

I think everyone should paint their nails and take a hot bath tonight. :D We all deserve it! You can each have a glass of wine for me. :happydance:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I have some white hairs, too!! And they seem to be multiplying! My mum greyed early, so I think I'm doomed! :( I think having a baby definitely ages us. . .unfortunately. Except maybe my sister. . .she seems to glow all of the time. . .lol. . . but she's only 24 years old (with a 2 year old and a baby due any day). . .so that could be it too. ;)


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---I've tried that recipe for teething biscuits---Camden LOVES them! They aren't so messy, so I can just give one to him and let him play while he eats it! That makes things a LOT easier for me! YAY! Thanks for sharing!


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## DragonflyWing

Do any of your LOs laugh in their sleep? Gunnar does this pretty often, usually just prior to waking up. He'll be sleeping soundly, and all of a sudden a giggle comes from his crib. We peek in at him, but he's still asleep. 

We thought it was weird and funny, and figured it was just a baby thing. HOWEVER, I recently downloaded an app that tracks my sleep cycles and records any snoring episodes. Twice in the past few days, there are sound recordings of me laughing in my sleep! I had no idea I did that, and DH said he's never heard it, but he only sleeps in the bedroom with me about 20% of the time. Anyway, maybe it's genetic! :haha:


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## wamommy

LOL Dragonfly, that's so cute!! Max will kind of chuckle once in a while, but not full-on laugh. I'll bet there is some genetic component! My kids all sleep with their eyes partly open. When I was in college my roommate pointed out to me that I do it too and it used to really freak her out. You can see a pretty big slit of eyeball when we're all asleep! It is a bit creepy, lol... What weird things we pass along.

Now I want to try those teething biscuits! I need to go buy some applesauce. :D


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## helena

How old are we all?.....36 here. I am a fan of hair dye. But I agree - be wary of red tones, also leaves my hair orangey. I use one with no red in it now. It lasts about six weeks. I do it at home. Think it might be a Nice N Easy one. One of the big brands anyway. Afterwards my hair is always so shiny and smooth. Maybe I will dye it this week :). Cover the greys..


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## SierraJourney

I'm 28----and yes, getting white hairs! ;) I might have to try a hair-dye---especially if it makes your hair shiny and smooth! My hair is so dreadfully dull. . .didn't use to be, but again, this year has aged me a ton. 

No laughing in his sleep here, but we can see him on the video monitor, raising his legs up and down in his sleep! :haha:


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## wamommy

I'm 34, but will be 35 next month. :dohh: I never really think of myself as "old," but lately I certainly look it! Argh, it seems like yesterday I was 22 and the world was stretched out before me. Time really does fly, doesn't it??

I haven't tried a store-bought hair dye in a long time. I don't even know where to begin! Can you go lighter that way, or only darker or about the same? I'd be happy with the same color, as long as it covered the white hair. I'd honestly LOVE to have lighter hair again, since being pregnant with Max darkened my hair a TON. I went from dark blonde/light brown to medium brown. I feel like it makes me look so drab and mousy.


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## Kellen

Looks like I'm the baby of the group at 25. I've had tons of white hair in my bangs since I was 16 though. Now they have moved around to above my ears as well... Just following the same pattern as my mom and grandmother. When I'm about 70 I'll have beautiful crown of silver hair.

Sierra - I am glad Camden likes the teething biscuits. I love the fact that Teagen can walk around with one and I don't have to worry about a huge mess. I tried putting cinnamon on one and she threw it away. Silly girl.

This past week has been insane. Long story short we are going to Texas for Teagen's first birthday if I don't kill DH before then. A family friend of DH's died due to a ruptured intestine and his memorial service is the Saturday after Teagen's birthday. MIL loves to pull DH's heartstrings. DRAMA! I am not even going to get into it.

But in happier news! We (meaning me) are hosting a play date at our house next Wednesday. One of the mommies we give milk to has a 14 month old little girl who she adopted. So they are going to come out and play with us for a few hours next week. I told her to invite other mommies and babies to come play too. I am very excited for Teagen to get to interact with little people her own age.

I applied for a job last night. It is a job I have done in the past; it wasn't my favorite mainly because of the people I had to work with. If I get it I hope the environment will be a lot nicer. I also submitted 6 job applications for DH.

And the last time I dyed my hair was in college. I went for red highlights. The hairdresser had to do it twice because my hair was so healthy that the dye washed out. Then my hair is so naturally dark they barely showed up. After that I took musical theatre and learned how to wig myself and make it look natural.


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## helena

25!!!! Oh our baby Kellen :) x. Seems I am the granny of the group then...I will be 37 in he the summer....aargh!

With dye you can only go darker. You can get home bleach kits or highlighter kits that enable you to go lighter though. But they scare me more, they are permenant.
I use a colour very similar to my natural colour and it just covers greys and makes it so much healthier looking. A friend of mine was advised by her hairdresser that home temporary / semi permenant dyes are better for your hair than permenant ones done in the salon. Go for an ammonia and peroxide free one xx

Am just off to a playgroup. We only go once a month or so, but you are right Kellen it is so fun watching them interact with other small ones! Xx


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## helena

Can't believe my baby will be 1 next weekend! Looking forward to making a very pink cake :)


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## DragonflyWing

30 years old here! Right in the middle of the group, I think. 

Good luck with the job applications and the trip, Kellen!


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## wamommy

What a great mix of ages we all are! No wonder we balance out so well. :)

Kellen, I love the way you look at grey hair as a "beautiful crown of silver hair." That's a lovely way to view it! My grandma dyed her hair until right before she died, and I remember being shocked when I saw her in the hospital, thinking her hair had been naturally blonde (at 83 :haha:). Once I have this baby I'll figure it all out, but for now I'll try to embrace my new white hairs, which I shall call "experience" or perhaps "wisdom." That sounds much better than "sleepless nights." :D

Kellen, I'm sorry to hear about DH's friend. :( It sounds like more is going on with the trip, but I hope it's fun! Has it been a long time since DH's family saw Teagen? 

I've never done a playgroup with Max but would love to! He loves pictures of babies and his own reflection, so I can only imagine another baby would be totally fascinating! I'm a bit concerned, though. Years ago I had a good friend who I met in a prenatal class at the hospital. We walked together a couple of times a week and then continued on once our babies were born. The weather changed and we took a couple of months off and when we met up again my daughter pushed her daughter down and grabbed the toy she was holding. My friend never called me again and I haven't seen her since. :( It was so sad! I guess I'm afraid Max will do something similar...lol. Babies will be babies though, right?

Helena, I can't believe we'll be doing baby birthdays so soon! It seems like yesterday the twins were in the hospital, you were scheduled for a c-section and the others of us were looking for signs of labor. Wow, does time fly!? What is everyone doing for birthdays? We'll probably make a little cake for Max to play in and destroy, and then a nicer one for the adults to share. I'm not sure what gift to give him, though. He has so many hand-me-down toys. :shrug:


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## DragonflyWing

The time really has flown! I can't believe how fast all the babies are growing up. It's a little bittersweet :cry:

I learned the other day that I have to start watching my language...I tripped over a toy and stubbed my toe, and for the next 10 minutes Lily was cruising around going "Fuh! Fuh! Fuh!" :blush:

DH started taking the babies to Baby Story Time at the library every Friday, and the twins really seem to enjoy it! They read a story, play games and sing songs, and then have free play with the other kids. It ends just in time for their mid-day nap, and they're usually in great moods for a long time afterward. 

Speaking of the library, there's an event coming up that I'm really excited about! They have a monthly program called Booked for Dinner which is a combination potluck and book discussion. They're discussing the book "Gone Girl" for February, which I read recently and LOVED. I think it will be a great opportunity to meet people in my town and get involved in something. It's February 8th, and I can't wait!


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## Kellen

Helena - Too funny being the granny of our group, but you're still younger than DH and all my sisters. I can't believe that Kiara is going to be 1 so soon! But then again Teagen will be 1 as well in less than a month. I guess we will all officially have "toddlers" by the middle of February.

Wamommy - Babies are babies and toddlers are notoriously selfish. If Emma (our playdate buddy who is 14 months) pushes Teagen over I suspect her mommy will gently correct her and we'll go from there. At least Max has siblings. Teagen has a cat, sheep and chickens as her playmates.

Dragon - The library group sounds like fun. I'm an avid reader and would love to get involved in something like that. DH and I used to Tango together and there are a couple of groups around here. We've been thinking of going back and starting up lessons again so we can go dancing.

The Texas Trip: So the man who died has been a friend of DH's family for 34 years (since DH was 5). Four weeks ago he began to complain of stomach pain and blood in his stool. Over those four weeks he lost 40lbs. Then - last Saturday - his wife finally decided to take him to the ER when he couldn't keep down any food. Turns out his intestines had ruptured in three different places. Why the heck didn't he go see a doctor sooner? None of his symptoms were in the normal range. He died on Monday.

The Texas relatives have not seen Teagen since she was 3 months when we stopped over during our move. This is not for lack of trying on our part, simply lack of funds. We have invited them out and I have tried to connect via Skype, but they just don't have the time. But I am looking forward to showing Teagen off. I will be taking my own baking supplies and food for Teagen's party and the visit in general. I will also not be allowing ANYONE to give my daughter Dr. Pepper or Sweet Tea. Teagen will be following her normal nap schedule and if anyone messes it up they will pay...

On a funnier note: my mom and dad decided to let Teagen eat dinner with them while I put together a toy box. My mom kindly cut up some chicken into bite size pieces for Teagen to grab while she was sitting on my dad's lap. All of a sudden I hear Teagen screaming. She didn't want the bites, she wanted a hunk of chicken so she could do it herself. She also refused the cut up banana and wouldn't eat the strawberries unless they were served whole. I think I have a self taught BLWer.


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## helena

Booked for Dinner sounds fun dragon :)
So funny your cruising daughter was nearly a cruising cursing daughter.


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## wamommy

Dragon, that library group sounds amazing! I would LOVE to do something like that! I should look up my local library and see what they offer. The tough part is getting DH to watch the kids while I go... :haha:

I need to watch my language, too. Max hasn't copied me yet, thank goodness, but my 4-year-old has said a couple of things lately that concerned me! We were driving in the car and we had to slam on the brakes when someone cut us off. She mumbled, "f-ing moron." I almost died! (It's DH who says that, btw, not me...lol)

Kellen, I'm so sorry about DH's friend. :( My best friend from college/high school has Crohn's disease, and before they diagnosed her the ER sent her away TWICE with ulcer medication and laxatives. Finally her intestine ruptured in the middle of the night but an emergency surgery saved her. The scar goes all the way from above her belly button to her bikini line. It's amazing it got that far! I wish they had caught it sooner for your friend. :(

I'm off to prepare for the Seahawks game! If we lose we're out, but if we win we go to the Superbowl. DH is nervous and I hate to know how moody he'll be for DAYS if we lose. :dohh: Go Hawks!


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## Kellen

All I want is an hour of uninterrupted sleep. We were up every 20-40 minutes last night. Tried co-sleeping. Tried white noise. Tried Daddy rocking. Tried nursing. Tried music. Tried silence. Tried everything. Why is she awake and chipper at this time of the morning?


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## wamommy

Oh Kellen, that sounds so tough!! I hope it gets better. :hugs: Are molars coming in or something? Maybe she's getting sick? I know how incredibly tough lack of sleep can be, and really hope it improves.


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## helena

Growth spurt I say Kellen!

Kiara just today learnt to kiss. Well, to put her mouth to ours and then grin, when we pucker our lips. She did it first to her 5 year old brother who is so very proud. It's amazingly cute. Lots of kissing going on here today :)


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## helena

Oh, and to add - I went running twice this week and am off to a Zumba class tonight. I decided it really is time I made an effort to lose these 7 kilos. I am not a natural runner, I don't love to run, in fact it hurts so I don't enjoy it..but I feel happy when it's over. And I can't diet very well..I just love food. So I will try and keep up the excercising. One time I ran with Kiara in the stroller. She was happy and dozed off :)


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## SierraJourney

What are the symptoms of molars coming in? Camden has been super clingy this week. . .I can't even put him down without him crying or whining. :( He was playing so good by himself and now all of the sudden never wants to be by himself. :( My only guess is that he is teething. .. He also is having trouble napping---- maybe we're both going through some teething, Kellen? I'm so sorry it's been so rough for you. I hope it gets better!

Way to go for exercising helena! I've been trying to do some crunches and things every day. . .but not very much. . . I thought about taking up running once the weather turns nice. I, too, love food. . .can't give it up. ;)

Camden kisses us, but every time it turns into a bite! lol . . .I have to pull away really quickly to avoid those teeth! :haha:


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## helena

Haha - I feel your pain Sierra. Except Kiara's kisses can easily become head butts!...

Am now making a birthday cake :) I thought he birthday was on Saturday - DH corrected me and its tomorrow! Eeeek! Daft mummy forgetting what date i am on...

This time last year I had mopped the floor and done a big supermarket shop and was about to have a busy night!...:)


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## wamommy

Happy Birthday to Kiara!! :cake: I hope tomorrow is a wonderful day, Helena. I simply can't believe it's been a year. I can't wait to hear all about how it went.

We try kisses here, but Max just stays still and makes the "kissy sound." It's cute how he freezes and waits for the incoming kiss!

Max is chunking up again! He leaned out there for a while, but it looks like solid food agrees with him. :haha: DH also wants to cut his hair, but I just don't know! I like his crazy 'do. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Happy birthday Kiara! I hope she has a fun day!

Lily gives kisses, but only to me and her favorite toys :haha:. She refuses to kiss anyone else. Gunnar won't stay still long enough to even let anyone kiss him! He's always on the go. They both give hugs occasionally. Yesterday, I was holding them both when I got home from work (they were so excited to see me that they tried to climb my clothes haha), and I got hugs from both at the same time. Nothing better than baby hugs!


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## SierraJourney

Wow! Happy birthday Kiara! Can't believe it's a year already!!

Is anyone having a big birthday bash for their first one? I may have asked this before (mommy brain, I swear!). . .but we are getting pressure from both of our families to throw this huge party with like 15 people who "SHOULD" be invited. But we kind of just want it to be the 3 of us. . .and quite honestly, I don't have the energy to plan a party... Again, sorry if I mentioned this before. . I'm really losing it lately! :haha:

The clingyness continues here... working from home has been a challenge and I'm exhausted from trying to do it all. . . Camden cries if Im not holidng him, so working is just impossible. .. I have deadlines to meet and am working extra hours. . .I'm so stressed. . .but he comes first in my life. .. so here I sit, holding him, trying to type. . .

My sister had her baby on Tuesday---a boy 9 lbs 6 oz! :wacko: Her first was 9lbs 2 oz. . .she has crazy large kids! Poor girl. . ..


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## wamommy

Congrats to your sister, Sierra! Kudos to her for carrying and giving birth to such big babies!! Ouch, but exciting! :)

We are having my Mom, godmother and niece over to celebrate Max's birthday. My birthday is February 7, my godmother's is January 28th, and Max's is February 4th, so we're doing a super casual joint birthday. I'll make a cake for Max to smash and one for the adults to eat, and we'll probably have a cheese plate and vegetable plate out. I really don't want to plan anything fancy. I already feel stressed that I have to clean the whole house before they come!

Oh, and Sierra.... I don't know how you get anything done with Camden AND work at home. I can barely pee on my own without someone screaming!! If DH wasn't here I don't think I'd ever shower or clean. I simply can't imagine how tough it is. It sounds like you have your priorities straight, though!!


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## Kellen

Happy Almost-Birthday, Kiara! That is so exciting. I can't believe how close we are all getting to celebrating our LO's 1st birthdays. I think we will be in Texas for Teagen's birthday, if not the day of then the day after or so. I will be taking the ingredients with me to make her a special cake that doesn't have too much sugar or other nasty things in it. 

Sleep is improving here. We have had horrible stagnant air for the past two weeks and it is just now clearing. I have had terrible earaches and I think that was probably what was keeping Teagen awake too. Last night she only woke up at midnight, 2:30 and 6:30. I can deal with that! I have also been letting her fuss herself to sleep a little bit more often. After we get back from Texas I am going to work on getting her to nap all by herself in her crib. We'll see how that goes...

Our play date yesterday was a roaring success. Teagen's Little Friend (LF) was a bit shy at first and not quite sure what to make of my Amazonian daughter (LF is 14 months and about 2 inches shorter and 6lb lighter than Teagen). But by the end of the two hours Teagen was grabbing a hold of her, hugging her, stroking her hair and giving her kisses. LF wasn't terribly thrilled by all the physical affection Teagen was showing, but she put up with it and did smile a couple of times. It was good to have another mommy to talk to as well. Next week we are at their house, which Teagen loves because: DOGS!

Tonight my dad was following Teagen around. As she meandered into the kitchen he said, "T that isn't your cupboard." She started signing "Tree" and has been for the past few days. I think she thinks that "T" is the same as "tree" so when she signs "tree" she is actually referring to herself. :shrug: So also can say and sign "book" with remarkable clarity.


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## helena

Cake! https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_image-1.jpg


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## DragonflyWing

Great photo! What a nice cake, did you make that?

Kellen, that's really cool that Teagen is trying to sign her own name! I wish I had taught the twins some signs...do you think it's too late? Lily's doing pretty well with words, but Gunnar seems reluctant to talk (although he knows most of the same words as Lily). I wonder if he'd have the attention span to learn a few basic signs.

Favorite words/phrases this week: pick up, what's that?, hi, stinky :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Love that picture helena! What a great cake---fabulous job!!

Dragon--so jealous of the words, and Kellen I'm jealous of Teagen's signing too! I haven't even been able to teach Camden to point to what he wants. He knows "mamama" and "dadada" but still not in context most of the time. . . he says "nananana", which I'm assuming is "no no no!". . .but he still only communicates through whining and fussing. :(


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## wamommy

What a sweet picture, Helena!! Kiara is getting so big and so beautiful! It looks like she's getting some hair! :D You look great, too, very happy and healthy.

Kellen, I'm glad to hear sleep is improving! Hopefully it will get better and better.

We're doing pretty well with language here. I think my girls were both slightly ahead of Max at this age, but meh... He says "Mama" and "Dada" a lot, and then most other words are hit and miss. (cup, no-no, that, duck) Trying to make him say a word never works. He looks at me like I'm insane when I point over and over at my cat and say, "kitty!" A couple of days later he will see the cat walk by and yell out, "Kee!!" Haha. I figure he'll get it when he's ready. My favorite thing he says right now is when I don't respond to him right away when he's yelling for me, and he says, "_Dat_ Mama!!" like we don't understand which one he wants... :haha:

Teagen sounds like a real character. I'm glad the play date went well! Max has yet to meet another baby his age, and I'm SO curious what would happen. He would probably get really shy. Who knows, though. Hopefully I'll find a group in the near future, but I don't see it happening with the new baby coming. He'll just have to settle for 2 crazy big sisters for now!


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## SierraJourney

Camden hasn't met a new baby his age either. . .I think he'd really benefit from a friend, though. . . but it's just hard with my working full time. .. argh. .. he loves his cousins, though (ages 2 and 4). 

wamommy---how's the pregnancy going? How are you feeling?


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## wamommy

Thank you for asking, Sierra! I feel like no one is interested because this is baby #4, DH never asks about the baby or wants to talk about it... :( He actually changes the subject if I bring it up. It's too weird. My family also hasn't asked about it since we told them. I feel like I'm carrying ALL of the weight of this pregnancy and new baby on my own. Sigh...

But to answer your question and not just whine...lol... I'm doing alright. I'm feeling HUGE and the aches and pains are starting. I'm trying really hard to alternate pilates days and treadmill days to keep from getting so stiff and sore. So far it's been working, but as I go into 3rd trimester I know it will get harder and harder to maintain. Can you believe I'm only 12 weeks from delivery?? (Assuming I have this baby at 38 weeks like the other 3 :haha:) Must... not... panic.


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy, I'm so sorry to hear that no one seems interested. . . :( That's got to be hard. . .because it's so very real to you because I'm sure you think about it all of the time---especially with the aches and pains!

Good for you for doing pilates and treadmill! By this stage in my pregnancy I was sitting on my butt most of the time! :haha:

Your DH needs to be more sensitive. . .period. (I hope you don't mind my saying that). . .but come on. . your wife is PREGNANT---at least TALK about it! grrrr. . . . 

Well if you ever want to talk about it (or whine!)--you can talk about it here! We're all very interested in your #4! So excited! :)


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## DragonflyWing

"_Dat_ Mama!" That's so cute!

Oy, kids can be repetetive, can't they? All I hear these days is "pitup pitup pitup" (pick up) and "wuz dat?" (what's that). Lily constantly wants to be picked up and carried around so she can point at every single thing in the world and ask us to name it. It's ridiculously adorable...for a while. I admit, after naming 97 different objects in 5 minutes, I have resorted to saying "things...stuff...the world..." :rofl:

As soon as she wakes up in the morning it starts. She barely picks her head up off the mattress before she sticks her little finger out and blearily asks "wuz dat?"


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## Kellen

Helena - That is an adorable picture of you and Miss Kiara. She looks so very grown up with her cake! 

Wamommy - We want to know all about #4 and we don't mind if you whine to us at all! Besides, if it wasn't for Dragon you would have been EXTRA surprised. We kind of owe it to you to listen and sympathize. I feel like I really need to make a trip up to see my sister so I can knock some sense into your DH. It took two to make the baby so he should at least pretend to be interested in his own child. Grrr...

Sierra and Dragon - I don't think it is too late to start signing with your LO's. Kids pick up on sign language really fast! I think, for Camden, if he was to repetitively see a video with signing and other kids doing it and then mommy and daddy doing it he might start mimicking it. :shrug: The same goes for Gunnar. Teagen isn't super verbal (although she has started to since her playdate with a verbal 14 month old), but signs very well. 

We have a "one finger rule" in our house since there are lots of pretty breakable things that my grandmother refuses to put out of Teagen's reach. So I go around the house not only explaining what each item is, but frequently saying "One finger. One finger only. Yes, good... No! That is a whole hand, not just a finger."

Today was the first pretty day we have had since December! We ended up spending 3 hours in the barn (2 in the morning and 1 this afternoon). Teagen was absolutely filthy and it was awesome. She is currently wearing a pair of my cowboy boots from when I was about 2 years old. She is actually able to walk better in the boots than normal shoes thanks to the ankle support. So she was able to roll in the dirt, chew in a large rock, cuddle a chicken, pet her sheep, "help" sweep and lots of other things. She took a loooong afternoon nap and then crashed 45 minutes early tonight. I think she'll sleep well.

It is official. We are going to Texas for a week and we leave in 11 days. AHAHAHAH! However, we will not be celebrating Teagen's birthday on her birthday because "no one can make it in the middle of the week." So we are suspending it until Sunday to have a joint party with her cousin who is turning 5. I am looking forward to this trip, but dreading it at the same time because it is going to mess up my beautiful sleep schedule that Teagen is finally following. Yesterday she slept from 7:30pm til 2:00am with nary a peep and then until 5:30 and 6:30 after that. Co-sleeping and then transitioning back to her crib isn't going to be very much fun.


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## wamommy

Thank you guys so much for your support!! It means the world to me. I am so thankful for this group and for each of you. It's so nice to have a place where I feel like I'm heard, and where I can get to know other women and how they view the world and raising babies. :hugs: :hugs:

I'm off to go pretty the kids up for church and then pick up some nursing bras that a woman is GIVING me! I can't believe it. I'm going to give this breast feeding thing one more strong go, and I really don't have a properly fitting bra. It's SO hard to find one in my weird size. Anyhow, I saw a woman's add online for 3 bras, a cami and a pumping bra and sent her an offer. She emailed back that I could just have them! What a wonderful surprise. :) What is wrong with me that I'm so excited over bras?? :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

Nothing's wrong with you, that is super exciting! I would LOVE if someone just gave me bras! Sorry to hear you've been getting achey, I hope it doesn't get any worse :hugs:

Kellen- sounds like Teagen had a great time in the barn! We're having -40 degree windchills today, so I'm a little jealous of your nice weather ;)

I need some advice! Lately, the twins have started screeching at the top of their lungs nonstop. When they're happy, frustrated, bored, no reason at all, they start yelling and screaming. Not crying, just blood-curdling screams. We've tried asking them to be quiet, reasoning with them, distraction, redirection, ignoring, time-outs...nothing works, and we're about at our wit's end! 

It doesn't bother me TOO much, but to DH it's like an ice-pick in the eye every time they scream. He gets headaches triggered by high noise levels, and he has zero patience with them when they start to yell. Since he's with them all day when I'm at work, it's becoming a real problem. DH has had bad headaches every day for the last week, and his stress level is through the roof. I'm not really sure what else to try to get them to stop. Any suggestions?


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## helena

Dragon, Kiara has suddenly got loud too.she yells to get attention, to tell me what here wants, to complain, or to get excited. It's her form of communication I guess. I would get DH a big pack of paracetamol and tell him to try and hang on - once they can talk a bit it will change. I bet its a novelty? I feel your pain though. When all three of mine get going I feel my head may burst.
Enjoy your bras wamommy. No you aren't crazy, these things are important :) and whatever makes you happy is good too! I am made very happy by storage boxes at the moment. Sad but true. Once I get the kids toys or my own nonsense in a clear box with a lid I feel so very content :) 

Anyone a period expert here? I usually have cycles of 30 ish days and bleed for about 7. This month was a 23 day cycle and 2 day bleed! Ideas? No chance that I am pregnant. Zero. Unless it's an immaculate conception. Could it be...menopause!?!?


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## Kellen

Wamommy - New bras are awesome. I know I felt like a whole new woman when I got my new nursing bras a month ago. That is really nice that she gave them to you. I hope that they help you and I hope that BF goes nice and easy for you this time. Baby #4 be nice to your mom and help her out!

Dragon - I don't know what to say about the screaming. Every once ina while Teagen will let out a happy screech, but nothing sustained. I am sorry your DH is getting headaches. Is there a completely safe room for the babies to be in if he needs to step out for five minutes and take a breather? I understand sometimes needing a quick break from Teagen to recoop and then go back at it.

Helena - My period has been all wonky too. For three cycles it was 25 days and then this time it was 27 days. Before Teagen it was always 26 days. Now DH thinks we are pregnant every time before AF shows up. :dohh: He has baby fever bad.

We finally have two more teeth on the bottom! They somehow sprouted overnight. I noticed them when Teagen was laughing and making silly faces at me. Maybe that was some of the sleeplessness last week. There also appears to be teeth numbers 8 and 9 coming down from the top. We had an issue with biting too, but now that the teeth are through she has stopped.

Since our play date last week Teagen has started to try to verbalize more. When she does something good we call her a "good girl." Yesterday when she was following her Poppy into the play room she was calling herself "Good Girl, Good Grrrrl." It is cute. And when she sees the sheep she says, "Hi, Bob! Hi, La!" (Bob and Larry and their names).

Now she has taken to feeding herself applesauce. I hold the bowl and she uses the spoon. Most of the time she does a pretty good job. This morning, however, she became distracted by her belly button and tried to feed it applesauce too. Gotta love shower time at 7:15 in the morning.


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## wamommy

:rofl: Picturing Teagen putting applesauce in her belly button certainly made me smile this morning! Silly girl.

Dragon, Max will "yell" sometimes when the girls are fighting with each other. It's like he's trying to join in, but with all 3 of them yelling the volume keeps going up and up and up. I have to cover Max's mouth for a second and say, "NO Maxie... too loud!" That usually works, but sometimes he just wants to be loud. I can't imagine 2 babies doing it at once! Your poor DH. I agree to a safe time-out for Mommy and Daddy where you can recharge. Sometimes the constant noise and activity can be too much.

We have new teeth here, too! I was shocked yesterday when I saw TWO had sprouted over night. Now Max has 3 (almost 4) on the top and 3 on the bottom. He looks like a little lop-sided beaver... :haha:

Helena, surely it's far too early for menopause?? I'm no expert, though. Maybe stress is playing a role? You mentioned starting to run. Beginning an exercise program can sometimes mess with AF too. :shrug: I've always been REALLY regular, so I can understand why is would be a bit disconcerting to suddenly change.

Max is finally mobile!! Now I remember why I wasn't in too much of a rush... :haha: It's so hard to keep up with him and get anything done! I think I'll have to put up the baby gates this weekend. We used those play yard things with the girls and put two sets together to make a HUGE "pen" as DH called it. It was a great option when I needed to use the bathroom or throw dinner on. I might dig that out and rebuild it in the family room. It's just so scary now that we have older kids, too, because there are tiny legos and sharp toys all over the house. Poor Max gets told No a million times a day!


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## DragonflyWing

Any unusual stress lately, helena? Sometimes stress makes my periods wacky.

I had the WORST nightmare last night. I think it was probably the worst dream I've ever had, and I've had some really awful ones. 

I dreamed that DH left me, and got engaged to another woman. He proposed to her right in front of me. It sounds silly, but it was detailed and vivid, and it felt _so real_. My heart broke.

When I woke up, I almost stayed home from work because I couldn't seem to force myself to get out of bed. Eventually I got up, but even now 3 hours later, I feel shaky and still have that heartbroken feeling. I even started crying a few times on the way to work. I don't think I will feel back to normal until I can talk to DH about it. He was asleep when I left for work, but I feel like I need him to tell me how silly I'm being :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Camden screeches ALL of the time! He doesn't have a quiet volume. The pediatrician said it's just them discovering their voices and once they learn it, they'll discover other volumes as well. ;)

We're still extremely clinging over here! I'm not sure what's going on. . .if it's teeth, they are taking a LONG time! Camden spent FOUR hours on my lap yestserday because he refused to be put down. If I put him down, he WAILS and turns red. . .so I don't like to get him that worked up. Any suggestions!?

wamommy---I've been wanting one of those playyards! I want to have one for outside so I can do gardening and know he's not getting into too much mischief. ;)

Hooray for Max being mobile! I agree--it was easier without the mobility! :haha: Camden has just started to pull himself up on things this week---he's constantly pulling up on my chair to cry to be picked up! Or he pulls himself up on my legs! Cutie pie. :)

And don't worry---Camden gets told "no" alot too because he plays in my office with me while I work. . .so he's constantly trying to touch the printer, pull on cords, etc. . . *sigh*

helena. . .hopefully AF shows up soon! That's always worrying . . . I agree that it might be the running, though. . . exercise messes mine up too.


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## Jo_Bean

Hi everyone :wave: I just wanted to pop by and see how you were all doing. Wow! Aren't our little ones all grown up already. Time really flies doesn't it?

Hope everyone is well, I can't find the time to read everything to get up to date, but I've skim read a few pages and it seems everyone has utterly beautiful little kiddies now :cloud9:

We are good, Olivia is a little fighter and proving people wrong continually. She is behind on gross motor skills, but way ahead of where they thought she might be at the year point. She is a very happy baby, always smiling or blowing kisses and truly the joy of my life.

I've decided to come back to BnB now that things have settled down with us. We have a working diagnosis and I am quite happy with what we're working towards now. It's a million miles away from what we were looking at before and I am in a much better place to deal with it all and to enjoy everyone elses milestones along with them. It was hard at times, but we're coming out the other end now.

Hope you are all doing ok xx


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## DragonflyWing

Hi Jo, welcome back! So glad to hear that Olivia is doing well!


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## helena

AF turned up, early, but was only 2 days. I guess stress could be it. I am continually stressed. I only ran twice...ops...Zumba tonight tho :)

Hi Jo! Happy to see you x x


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## wamommy

So good to see you, Jo!! Olivia looks so beautiful and grown up in your avatar! :D I'm so glad to hear she's doing well.


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## Kellen

:wave: Hi, Jo! Glad you and Miss Olivia are back. So jealous of her hair. She is gorgeous.


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## SierraJourney

Hi Jo!!! So glad you are back! I've gone over and read your journal now and again and it sounds like Olivia is just doing wonderfully! And she's just gorgeous! Sooo good to "see" you again. :)


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## Jo_Bean

Thanks ladies. So lovely to see so many of you are still around :D


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## SierraJourney

Hi ladies! Hope you're having a lovely weekend!

I needed to get on here and rant a little bit. ;) You all know a bit of my mil struggles... (she's a nice lady. . .just a bit pushy. . and steps on my toes a lot as a mother) Anyways.. . does is bother any of you ladies when mil (or mom) is kissing all over your lo? I mean, I'm okay with a kiss when they first get here or when they are leaving, but seriously, mil was kissing Camden the whole afternoon she was here! And she was sick last week. . .and I'm a complete germ freak! I asked DH to say something to her and he said he would. . .I just can't take the constant slobbering on him. :( 

Also, I know I'm a bit sensitive when it comes to mil issues, but we were putting Camden to bed last night and she wanted to come up and put his pajamas on him. I understand that it's her grandbaby and she wants to be super involved, but I feel that 1) bedtime is a special time where DH & I get to put him down and do his routine. . .I don't want that messed. 2) If I want you to help, I would have asked you. I understand wanting to do it (because who wouldn't want to dress a cute little baby?!), but in my head I'm like : "this is MY chance to have a baby and care for him. You already have your kids---you don't need to try to help with mine." I know that probably sounds just super calloused, but the whole situation just aggravates me because she never ASKS me about things---she TELLS me that is what she's doing. And I hate that. Like, she told me she was coming up this weekend to babysit. She also said when she was leaving "I'll probably be up next weekend too"---just assuming she can come over whenever. . . It just drives me crazy. In my opinion, if I want someone to babysit, I'll call you. If we aren't busy on a weekend, I'll let you know. If you don't hear from me, it's because we want to just be alone! 

I'm a bit hormonal lately, so that might play a part. . .but goodness. .. 

Thanks for the vent, ladies! ;)


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## Kellen

Sierra - I can only sympathize as I have no idea what my MIL will be like this next week. I'm sure I'll have some stories to tell. 

Right now all I can think about is the fact that Teagen has been up for 30 minutes and we still have a dry diaper. Not enough fluids? Not enough night nursing? NO! She has signed potty twice and went pee in the toilet! So excited!


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## wamommy

Sierra, I don't have a MIL, so it's hard to relate to the relationship, but I totally understand the germ thing! I don't mind people holding Max, but I'm not a fan of kissing his hands or face. It would drive me crazy to have someone announce they were coming over without asking, though! We're pretty private, and our routine is super important to us. The kids all get wonky when the routine goes south. Sometimes it's worth it (Christmas, vacation, etc) but most of the time I would SO rather guests leave the "routine" stuff to us. I wouldn't appreciate the insistence on "helping" either. I'm sure her intentions are good, but maybe she's just REALLY bad at reading people and their reactions? I'm so sorry this continues to cause you stress! Feel free to vent here when you need to! 

Kellen, I can't believe Teagen peed in the potty!! What a huge achievement! :D She'll be diaper free super early if she's already that self aware. My girls were both in diapers until just before 3. Not only is it yucky to change a big kid diaper, but expensive too! It would be so nice for you to avoid all that. Well done!

We had my Mom, Godmother and niece over to celebrate Max's b-day early because they're busy on the 4th. It was alright, but Max gets so quiet and shy around them! I had to tell them, "I swear he talks and laughs. He doesn't usually just stare..." Ugh. Weird little guy. He didn't like his cake, either! I thought he'd love a chance to snarf some sugar, but he poked at his cake a couple of times and probably ate 2 bites, lol. My niece was also sick and sneezed right in Max's face a few times, so I'm crossing my fingers he doesn't get sick again. 

Are you guys watching the Super Bowl today?? We are!! GO SEAHAWKS! Only 7 hours until kick-off!


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## SierraJourney

Thank you ladies. I'm a private person, too, wamommy---so having someone wanting to be so involved is driving me crazy. . .and I just don't think she's doing it in a good way. . .she just comes off very pushy. After I wrote that post, yesterday she called DH and wanted to babysit while we go to the grocery store (we had told her the day before that we were grocery shopping yesterday) Well, thankfully we were already at the store, so it was too late, but she gave DH a sob-story "but I wanted to babysit". It just drives me crazy because I don't ASK her to babysit, she just tries to set up times. It looks like I'll actually need a babysitter once a month for a couple hours pretty regularly, so I'm hoping if I ask her to do that, it will suffice her babysitting desire and she'll stop being so invasive. It's hard because DH just feels bad for her because she's retired and it's her first "real" grandchild (she has 7 step-grandchildren that she sees quite often), and she keeps saying that she wants to be really involved in Camden's life. DH feels bad and wants to cater to her, but I like to be more independent--I want to watch my own kids. . .and OCCASIONALLY have a babysitter. She's expecting him to stay the night at her house in the near future, etc. . .and I'm just a bit too possessive to let my baby be out of my sight more often than is necessary. Argh. . . well at least I have this week where she won't be up. . .but apparently she's coming back this weekend. . . *sigh* 

Kellen---enjoy your trip!! I hope it goes wonderfully for you! When do you leave? I can't believe Teagen is so self-aware. What a little star!

wamommy---are you so excited from the win last night?! I was thinking of you a lot! I'm not a huge sports fan, but I do watch the superbowl. :) Fun stuff.

Oh, and btw, on Friday night I found out that my OTHER sister is having a baby in August! It's just full of babies over here! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Gunnar took his first steps!! :D

Last night, he was cruising around the kitchen while I put groceries away, and he started whining to be picked up. I held my arms out to him, and stood far enough away that he had to let go of the cabinet to reach me. As he let go, I took a couple steps backward, and without even realizing it, he walked forward to get to me! I tried it a couple more times, putting him down and backing up a little, and he did it each time! 

It will be a little while for Lily, I think, but she's making progress too. I woke up yesterday morning to see her standing in her crib...so she can pull herself up now. :)


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## SierraJourney

YAY Dragon!! That's wonderful!! So cute!


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## wamommy

To be honest, Sierra, Max will be 1 tomorrow and no one but DH or myself has ever babysat him! We're probably over-the-top paranoid about his safety, but more than that we just don't know anyone well enough to trust them with an infant. We have a couple of friends who we trust with the girls for a couple of hours at a time, but even that scares me! I think I'm just a control freak too, and I'm worried that they won't be kept safe the way we would do it. I know I need to get over it, because with 4 kids a babysitter WILL eventually be necessary. My Mom offers all of the time (and has even cried and said that I won't "let" her have a relationship with my kids) and she wants to have the girls spend the night with her. I would just rather make my mom angry than chance an accident with the girls. :shrug:

I feel like I sound totally paranoid, but I'll give you a quick example. When I had Max and was in the hospital, DH went down to the hospital cafeteria with my Mom and the girls. DH went to get ketchup and heard a scream. He looked back to see a nurse running across the room screaming and MY DAUGHTER hanging by her neck from the blind cords at the window. She had stood up on her chair, put her head through, and the chair had slipped out from under her. My Mom was checking her email on her phone... The nurse made it to my daughter about the same time as DH and they got her down. That was within _30 seconds_ of her watching them alone...

Dragon, yay Gunnar!! I'm sure Lily won't be far behind because she'll want to keep up with him! How fun! :D 

The Super Bowl was exciting, but a TON of work. DH didn't want a single sound to interrupt "his" game, so I worked SO hard to keep all of the kids occupied and Max quiet. It was a very large challenge, and DH didn't even acknowledge how I missed most of the game to take the kids. :( I'm actually pretty upset about it today. He gets to drink beer and watch our team win and I chase 3 kids around for 5 hours and try to catch a play here and there... I also made 2 meals and cleaned it all up while he zoned out. I really should have married a poet... :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---that's so scary about your daughter!! :( I'm so glad the nurse and DH saw her! 

I'm also so glad that I'm not the only one who feels this "paranoid" way! If it were up to me, I'd never have a babysitter (at least while he's awake. . .I find it easier to leave him with MIL while he's sleeping so she doesn't have to "do" anything). DH needs a bit more freedom than I do, I think. . so I know I have to compromise. . .but I want it to be on MY watch. . not MILs! Thanks for making me feel better. . .this baby is just so precious to me. . .I don't want anyone to watch him besides me and DH! 

I'm sorry to hear about the superbowl. . .that sucks. Seriously. . .your DH needs to help you out more. . .that's just not fair. :( Do you ever try to talk to him about it? It seems to me that if he works during the day and you work taking care of the kids all day, then you both should SHARE the responsibility of watching them at night. It's ridiculous for you to have to do everything!! :( 

Camden's amber teething necklace arrived in the mail today---I bought it in attempts to maybe help the clinginess a bit. . . he's had it on for 20 minutes so far. .. here's hoping for results! :thumbup:


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## wamommy

Ooh, I hope the teething necklace works! Let me know if it does. Max is struggling so much with pain in his mouth. He keeps biting me!

You're totally right that DH needs to help out more. The funny thing is, he DOESN'T work outside the home. We live off of real estate investment income and BOTH of us are home all day. That makes it especially irritating that I do ALL of the cooking, cleaning, and night waking with the kids. He does watch the kids while I shower and workout (somehow staying thin is more important than reading a book or taking a bath or otherwise tending to my sanity). He takes Max every other morning so I can sleep in for an hour or 2. That's it. I think that's one reason I'm freaking out about the new baby so much. I just don't have the help or support system that I really need to make this work. I'm already stretched so entirely thin... I've tried talking to him about it but he shuts down and says, "I guess you married the wrong man, then." Or, "I guess all I do is worthless then and I should do nothing since you nag at me anyway." I feel like I can't win. To be honest, I don't really like him very much at all. How sad is that?? If we didn't have kids I would have been out the door years ago. :(


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## DragonflyWing

Wow, that's really unfair that you're stuck with all the work, wamommy. I'm sorry you're being treated so poorly. That's a tough situation. Do you think couples counselling would be helpful at all?


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## SierraJourney

Awwww wamommy. .. :( What a hard place to be in. :( :hugs: I'm so sorry. It doesn't even sound like he is listening to your needs or trying to "play fair". ..sounds like he is just wanting to do his own thing---living the bachelor life but with the married benefits. :( I feel so badly for you. My husband overlooks a lot sometimes (like that the kitchen is dirty or the shower hasn't been cleaned), but when it comes to caring for Camden, he jumps right in. I wish you had at least *a little* help from your DH! :(


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## SierraJourney

Just curious---what did/are you all getting your lo's for their birthdays? DH just wants to get Camden one small toy since we are constantly buying stuff for Camden all of the time (new carseat, cloth diapers, that sort of thing). Is that being cheap? lol I know he's only 1, but I feel that we need to make a big deal out of it, and we really aren't. . .? We'll probably just have a cupcake and open he one small toy on his actual birthday (Monday), then we are having a dinner/cake/presents from extended family on the weekend. . . 

Also, did you all make your cakes? I wanted to make his but I don't think I have enough time. . .and feel like I should be making more of an effort instead of just buying one at the grocery store? :shrug:


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## wamommy

Thank you ladies for your support! Dragon, I've suggested couples counseling, but DH says no way. He thinks psychology is for "quacks" and that they "always take the woman's side." Hopefully this is just a rough patch and things will improve, or so I've been telling myself for 8 years. :dohh:

Sierra, today is Max's birthday!! So far we're off to a rough start. He didn't sleep well at all and we've been up since 5am. The house is dark and quiet and I'm downstairs chasing him around. I wish I had his energy, lol. Our plans are really simple too. We had a family get together with a cake that I made, but Max wasn't overly impressed. We are planning to buy him one thing also and I think I'll buy a little fruit tart at the store for him. He doesn't appear to like cake, but LOVES fruit, so we're compromising. I think for the most part it will be a regular day. There will be plenty of time for extravagant birthdays, but at this age they really have no idea what's going on. :shrug: It's a big deal to me, though! I can't believe our little people are 1. It's amazing how fast this year has flown.


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## SierraJourney

Happy 1st birthday Max!!! I'm sorry to hear it's started off rough, but hoping it gets TONS better!! 

Glad I'm not the only one keeping it simple. I went to order the cake for next weekend's party and the lady asked "What theme are you decorating in?"---and I was like "Decorating?!" None! lol! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

How many naps is everyone on? Camden still takes two, but is fighting his second nap really badly lately. He's tired for both naps (one around 9:30 a.m. and the other around 1:30), but he fights the second one. . .I'm not sure if I should keep trying to force a nap or if he is trying to give it up. . . .


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## Jo_Bean

Olivia was 1 yesterday. We had a small family tea party for 2 hours on Sunday where we had tea and cake and presents from family.

Happy birthday to Max for yesterday too!

Yesterday we just went to my mum's for lunch. We didn't buy her much at all as we just spent a small fortune on a new carseat. We got her a wooden shape sorting cube and a ragdoll. I did make her cake, but she wouldn't have noticed, it was more because I wanted to but it was almost a complete disaster and I stayed up past midnight icing it on Saturday! :dohh: She did get some of the foam playmats from my mum that you interlock together. They are amazing! Definitely a great find.

Wamommy - sorry to hear things aren't great. If it's any consolation it's been very similar with my husband and I. We go through moments when I can't stand him but then moments where it's ok again. It's really stressful having kids isn't it!? It will be ok, it's just hard, doesn't mean it's broken.

Sierra - Olivia can sometimes miss her morning nap if I distract her by taking her out and about, she seems to function quite well without it but I don't feel she is completely ready to miss it out all the time. Apparently it's quite common for them to start to change their habits around now though, for the two naps to turn into a bigger one in the early afternoon.


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## SierraJourney

Your birthday plans sounded lovely Jo! Happy belated birthday Olivia!! 

Thanks for the help on the naps--- it's just so strange because he sleeps great for his morning nap but fights the afternoon one! I feel I'll never understand him. . .lol ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Happy birthday to Max and Olivia :)

I made banana cupcakes for the twins' birthday. We didn't have a party, just had a little celebration on our own. We got the twins one gift each...but our families more than made up for it and practically buried them in clothes and toys. My mom sent my sister home with a 3' x 2' x 1' suitcase FULL of gifts for the babies. It was crazy. 

My mom tends to go a little overboard, though. When I mentioned that diapers and formula were taking up a big chunk of our monthly budget, she sent us two cases of diapers (360 diapers), a case of wipes, and 16 cans of formula. She's sad that she can't be here to see all their milestones, so she tries to make up for it by buying them things. It's all very much appreciated, but I feel guilty that she gives us so much.

Gunnar has been very naughty lately. He's not allowed to touch the TV or the garbage can, and he knows that very well, but those are the first things he goes for when he gets on the floor. Apparently Lily has picked up on it, because last night when Gunnar reached for the TV, she yelled "NO! No, unna! NO!"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## wamommy

Happy birthday to Olivia! I didn't realize Max and Olivia shared their birthdays. I have a weird OCD number thing, and I love even numbers. I was ecstatic when Max was born on 2-4! :haha: It sounds like Olivia's party was wonderful. :) We had a little bit of a birthday fiasco yesterday. THe one thing Max really likes is Daniel Tiger (a cartoon interpretation of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood) and he smiles and points whenever we put it on TV. We decided to get him a Daniel Tiger stuffed animal that talks. Anyhow, I called around all morning and there was ONE store in the state that had it in stock. It was about an hour drive away, but we figured it was worth it for his one present. We asked them to hold it for us and drove down there. They put the wrong thing on hold!! THey didn't even have the right doll. :( We bought a little toy anyhow and went to buy him the fruit tart I thought he'd love. THey were out of that at the store too! We ended up buying a bunch of fruit and some whipped cream and just let Max make a yummy slimy mess with it all. He seemed to enjoy it, and has NO clue that my whole plan for his day went to pot, lol. Oh well.

Dragon, how cute about the twins! It sounds like their personalities are already so defined. I'll bet they have the same rolls through high school! It will be fun to see how their relationship changes and grows.

Sierra, Max only naps once a day around 2:00pm. I like it to last 2 hours, but we're usually lucky to get one. If he doesn't get enough sleep at his nap the evenings are miserable.


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## DragonflyWing

I was practically rolling on the floor when she started reading him the riot act, she was even shaking her tiny fist at him! :haha:

We're still at two naps per day here. They start getting tired about 2-3 hours after they get up in the morning, and again about 4-5 hours before bedtime. I'd say naps usually last 1-2 hours. Right now their sleep schedule looks like this most days:

8:30am- wake up
11:30-1:30- nap
5-6:30- nap
10pm- bed

Depending on how much she's eaten during the day, sometimes Lily wakes up for a bottle at around 3am. Not a big deal, she just drinks it in her crib and goes right back to sleep on her own. Gunnar has been sleeping poorly recently (teething, I think), so he's been up a few times in the night and needs to be rocked or put in the swing to get back to sleep.


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## helena

Happy birthday Maxa no Olivia for yesterday. Sorry I missed them, I was back in the uk visiting my parents. Happy times mixed with sad, seeing mum a little bit more unwell than last time. But we still shared some laughs. I took Kiara with me. She was a star but is starting to get a little bit shy and having some mummy separations anxiety issues. If I am in the room only I will do. But if I leave she will allow my dad to hold her, and she will be happy. but not if I am too close. 
We didn't get Kiara anything for her birthday...she just didn't need anything. It felt a bit mean, but I would have been buying something just for buying sake. It seemed crazy. we have heaps of toys, I had already bought her a pretty dress months ago that I was saving for her "birthday dress" and so I just made her a cake, allowed her to eat sausages and ice cream. I think that made her very happy. She got lots of clothes and a toy from a friend. Not a lot but she doesn't need a lot. 

We are on he that transition to one nap. Maybe 4 or 5 days a week Kiara ans just one nap. But this is easily messed up if we drive anywhere too early in the day - then she has two.

Hang on, Taegan peed on the potty? Amazing!! Clever little lady :)


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## SierraJourney

wamommy--I don't think Camden would last until 2p.m. for a nap---he'd be livid! He wakes at 6:30 everyday and is rubbing his eyes and whining around 9 am for a nap! Wow. how different all of our babes are! 

Dragon--your schedule sounds like a dream! lol! I'm a bit jealous! Camden's naps are usually 45-60 minutes long. He wake early But, the good thing is that he is usually asleep for the night by 7p.m.--which gives DH and I time together and to get the house back in order. :)

Helena, I'm sorry your mum is more unwell. :( How heartbreaking! I'm sure Kiara brings her such joy though! :hugs: Camden is like that when I am in a room too--only mommy will do! Must be the age? :shrug:


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## Kellen

Hello from Texas!

Belated Happy Birthday to both Oliva and Max. Happy Birthday to Teagen!

She was a super trooper on the plane. And today she has been back on track for her naps. Our schedule is this:
Wake up - 6:30 or 7am
Nap at - 9:30 or 10 until 11 or 11:30
Nap #2 - 2:30 or 3 up at 4pm
Bedtime no later than 7:30pm

Things are interesting here. Teagen's cousins LOVE her and are having fun watching her. Right now she is hanging out with her 10 year old cousin who is fascinated by her.

And yes, we are peeing on the potty about 30% of the time. She does better signing potty in the morning before we begin playing. Once we get into the day she gets distracted.


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## wamommy

Happy birthday, Teagen! What a trooper traveling so well. :D I still can't believe she pees in the potty!! That's incredible. :happydance: 

Helena, I'm glad to hear that Kiara brightens your Mom's mood so much. I can only imagine how wonderful it is for her to see you and Kiara! Max is the same way with me in the room, too. Even DH won't do, and he loves playing with DH! If I leave to shower or clean, etc, MAx laughs and plays with DH, but the second I walk back in the room he shakes his hands and looks at me saying, "Ma, Ma, ugh ugh ugh, Mamaaaa!!!!"

Wow, I envy your schedules! Ours goes like this:

5:30-6am Wake up
11am-12pm Super tired but fights sleep and gets a second wind at lunch
2pm-3 or 3:30pm Nap
9pm down for the night

Ya, I'm screwed when the new baby comes! Speaking of, I had a 28-week OB appointment today, complete with Gestational Diabetes test. I'm measuring 28 cm and have gained 5 pounds in 5 weeks, for a total of 9 pounds so far. The OB is pleased, but had some odd news for me. Apparently because of my "advanced maternal age" (BOO) I have to have non-stress tests starting next month and another ultrasound in 5 weeks! I'm not complaining about the ultrasound since it's another great opportunity to see LO, I just don't like feeling like something might be wrong just because I'm "old." I'll only be 35 on Friday. That's not THAT old!!!!


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## Jo_Bean

Sorry to hear about your mum Helena :hugs:

Happy birthday Teagan :cake:

Oh Wamommy, that's not old, they just pick an age and go with it.

Our routine is a bit like this

06:30 - 07:00 Wake
07:00 - 07:30 bottle
07:30 - 08:00 breakfast
10:00 snack & drink
10:30 nap
11:00 - 11:30 - wake
12:30 lunch
14:30 bottle and nap
15:30 wake
16:30 tea
18:00 bath & bottle
19:00 bed

That is an ideal scenario, se is good at going to bed but the naps in the day vary, she's leaning towards 1.5 hours in the afternoon and 30 mins in the morning lately, but not there yet. Also, she doesn't have a full bottle at each feed but as part of her issues, she's not drinking from a cup properly enough to rely on it for fluids, so she's on more bottles than she should be for her age, but I'm not bothered. We've found a straw cup she is drinking from now, so it should sort itself out a bit I think.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---so glad to hear the plane ride went well and she's on track with her schedule! 

wamommy--I wouldn't worry about the "advanced maternal age"--35 is a great age! Plus---extra ultrasound sounds fabulous! :) I say, "Congrats" on getting an extra look at your babe that far in the pregnancy! :thumbup:

Jo--Camden can't drink out of sippy cup without a straw, either. .and even with that, we have to hold it for him most of the time or he wouldn't drink from it. We're lucky if he gets 3/4 of the cup gone all day! He's still breastfeeding 4-5 times a day, though, so that helps with his fluids. .. We've found the Nuby cups with the straws work best for him. :)


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## Jo_Bean

That's teally interesting to know about Camden! Thanks Sierra. I have tried so many cups with straws. Our SALT lady said to try cartons of juice so you can squeeze it and she realised what's in there. That started her off. She now seems to like the Oxo water bottle. It's free flow and wide, but goes everywhere!!


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## SierraJourney

Oh--- that's really cool on the cartons of juice! I should try that with Camden. The Nuby cups leak somewhat but I feel at least he's getting fluids!


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## wamommy

That's funny that you both use straws instead of sippy cups too! Max just turns the sippy upside down and "paints" all over the table with the water. If we hold a straw cup or even a regular glass with a straw in it, he drinks and drinks. I've been looking for a good brand of sippy with a straw that you don't have to "bite" at the end to get stuff to come out.

Thanks for saying I'm not old, ladies! :haha: I suppose I should look at the bright side that I get to see LO again before his/her birth! I'll have to tell the sonographer not to show me any potty shots. We've come this far, I'd hate to accidentally find out the gender!

Have any of you had the non stress test? What is it exactly?


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, one of my Nuby cups you have to bite but the other is free flow.. maybe they have a website?


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## DragonflyWing

I had lots of nonstress tests! I had to get them twice a week from 25 weeks on to monitor for preterm labor. Fat lot of good that did me, because I had them early anyway!

For mine, I sat on a hospital bed, and they strapped three monitors to my belly- one to check for contractions, and one for each baby's heartbeat (so you'd just have two things strapped to you). Then I just sat there for 30 minutes while it tracked their movements and heart rates. 

The purpose of the test is twofold. First, they want to make sure that the baby's heartrate increases appropriately with his/her activity level. When the baby is moving, the heartrate should go up, and it should go back down when they are resting. Second, the contraction monitor picks up tightenings that you might not even feel, and helps detect preterm labor.

They're no big deal, just bring a book or something so you don't get bored. Gunnar liked to kick the monitors off me, so I usually had to hold them in place the whole time.


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## wamommy

Thank you, Dragonfly! I was wondering about what to expect and that helps a lot. I'll make sure to go alone so that the kids don't drive the entire Doctor's office nuts, too... :haha: It might actually turn out to me a wonderful break for me!! :D


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## DragonflyWing

No problem! Yeah, it was mostly an opportunity for me to sit and read for a while, although it was a pain to take off from work twice a week.

(warning- trip down memory lane hehe)

It got annoying when I went into the hospital, though. I had to be on the monitor 24/7, and keeping two dancing little monkeys on the monitors for that long is really hard! I remember getting about 1.5 hours of sleep in two days because every time one of them moved away from the monitor, the alarm went off and the nurse would come in to adjust everything. One night, my nurse actually sat on my bed and held the monitors in place for 3 hours straight while I tried to get some sleep. She was an angel.

After 3 days of that, plus complete bedrest (couldn't even get up to pee, I was catheterized), plus the IV magnesium that was (unbeknownst to me) giving me a pulmonary embolism, I was such a wreck. I was trying so hard to be strong and patient for the babies, but I was hyperventilating and sobbing uncontrollably. Finally, the doctors decided that the stress was worse for me and the babies than any potential benefit....they approved hourly doppler heartrate checks and 6x/day intermittant monitoring, plus they took me off the magnesium. What a RELIEF!!

Unfortunately, Gunnar's placenta abrupted less than 24 hours later and I had to have an EMCS anyway. :wacko:

On the upside, the hospital had great food! They had a menu where you could choose any number of a la carte items to create your own meal, then they'd deliver it to your room. :)


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## Jo_Bean

Wamommy - here is my low down on the straw cup situation

- the oxo water bottle is free flow, this is the one we ended up using https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A...165_QL70#ref=mp_s_a_1_4&qid=1391931760&sr=8-4

- Momma make nice ones that don't tip over you don't have to bite it but having tried them all myself, this one is harder to suck - most babies have better sucking reflexes than adults though https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006...rtUVAFVQoHIDFeq96ihpapyy/QYOcK7RRXYAooooD/9k=

- Beaba do a good one that is inbetween the sucking power of oxo and momma

- this was recommended by our speech and language therapist as a good starter as you can squeeze it to encourage straw drinking https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005...5_QL70#ref=mp_s_a_1_27&qid=1391931599&sr=8-27 but we couldn't get it in this country which is why we went with juice cartons. My only worry with cartons is that the straw comes out and is harder which is why I searched for a plastic one with soft straw. 

I'm in the UK so have just tried to find them on amazon.com for you guys. You seem to have a lot more choice actually.


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## helena

Oooh I am amazed at Taegans potty use! I told DH that a valentines baby has started on the potty and he joked "right, get the potty out!.." :) game for a challenge :)

But not quite yet, one challenge first - chicken pox ( I think)...DH was way this weekend and so it was me and my three kiddos. Kiara was feverish and so clingy, it was a tough weekend. I don't think Kiara left me for 30 hours at one point. Te boys were good and enjoyed lots of tv time...and we were in PJs for 80% of the weekend! DH was back last night, phew!
Then she seemed to get better for a day and then today little itchy spots..


We use a straw too :)


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## Kellen

Teagen is still working on trying the straw out. DH left her normal sippy cup at the memorial reception so we bought her a new one that was similar as well as one with a straw. The potty thing has been hit and miss while in a new place, but she still does really good with pooping on the potty.

I shall be incredibly glad to be home tomorrow. 12 people in a three bedroom house is not an ideal situation. Sleeping between your MIL, baby and DH is not ideal either, especially when said MIL snores like a freight train... ALL NIGHT LONG! DH would have had us all sleep in the car had it not been 20 degrees outside. The couches were occupied by FIL, BIL and a nephew... I miss my bed and quiet.


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## SierraJourney

Yikes Kellen! That does not sound ideal at all! I don't know if I could do that! lol Glad you'll be home tomorrow!

Helena---I hope poor Kiara doesn't have chicken pox! Poor girl!! Did you call the doctor?


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## wamommy

Jo, I'll look into getting a straw cup like those. Thank you! I think I like the Momma one.

Helena, poor kids! It's great that the boys are getting old enough to entertain themselves for a bit, though. Also, I've heard chicken pox gets harder to handle as you get older, so if Kiara got them out of the way early it may not be so bad! Still, I hope she feels better. :hugs:

Kellen, you are a stronger woman than I. I couldn't take it! I'm a really light sleeper and sleep is at such a premium around here that I may explode, lol. Besides the sleeping situation, how has your trip been?


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## DragonflyWing

I got a video of Gunnar walking! I attached it here, not sure if it will work. Let's see...
 



Attached Files:







VID_20140209_155812_0155.mp4
File size: 1.9 MB
Views: 4


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## wamommy

Dragon, that video is sooo cute! What a handsome little guy! :D


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## SierraJourney

Argh---I can't get it to play on my stupid computer! :(


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## Kellen

Dragon - That is an awesome video! He is sooo cute.

I am currently sitting in the airport while DH is walking Teagen about. Our flight was supposed to leave at 3:00pm, but it has been rescheduled for 3:55pm. No telling what delays we might encounter during our layover. At least the roads home are clear as long as the temperatures remain above freezing.

The dual birthday party went really well. There were a bunch of bigger girls there (10-13) who fell in love with Teagen and played with her the entire time. I actually got to visit with some of the adults and enjoy a piece of cake. But I am really, really looking forward to being home. Glad we took this trip, but I will be glad to get back home and to our routine.


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## helena

https://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/roseola.html

Pretty sure this is what Kiara had, not chicken pox. I almost wish we had got the pox out of The way a bit, but never mind.
We never made it to the doctor. I tend to wait three days of fever before going to the doc and after day two or three the fever stopped. The rash appeared then but as I was sure it wasn't meningitis I didn't feel panicked and was pretty sure it was a virus so sat it out. She was still eating so I guessed if she was seriously ill she wouldn't want to..she does love to eat!

The symptoms sounds just right for this sixth disease - cough for a week, two days of high fever and fussyness, then that stopped and two days of rash. She is ok now, no rash just tired and sleeping more (every cloud has a silver lining right? She slept soooo great last night! Just one tiny wake up in 13 hours!):happydance:

Oh Kellen I hope you are home. Sounded seriously awful sleep situation wise!!

Wamommy, I am a light sleeper too. It's not fair since we have so many children is it!? If any one of them stirs I wake. Even if they just yawn. Meanwhile DH can sleep on even if they are in bed with us trying to wrestle him!!
Most nights I tell myself that one day I will buy ear plugs and have just one night off!...:wacko:


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry Kiara's been ill, I hope she feels better soon! 

I went to a book discussion event at our local library on Saturday, and it was a lot of fun! I got to meet more of my neighbors (I live in a very small town- just 1100 people and 1 square mile...so everyone is sort of a neighbor hehe) and feel more involved in the community. 

I was also really impressed with myself...normally I'm very reserved and quiet, and I don't participate much in social situations. However, I really liked the book we were discussing, and I had a lot of things to talk about. Everyone seemed receptive to my ideas and opinions, and we had a really great discussion. It was so nice to have an adult conversation. I talk to DH, but 90% of the time we're talking about the kids.

This is the sort of situation that in the past would have me breaking into a cold sweat. I used to have considerable anxiety in large groups like that. So I was really happy to find that I was comfortable speaking up in front of everyone. I'm hoping to attend more events at the library in the future.

This evening I have a doctor appointment. I've had an enlarged lymph node in my neck that has gradually been getting bigger over the past 7 months or so. I kept ignoring it and figured it would go away, but it's about 3cm across now, so I guess I should get it checked out. I'm sure they'll tell me I'm being paranoid and it's nothing, and DH doesn't think I should bother going, but better safe than sorry. 

Let's talk about babyproofing- do you ladies have latches on the cabinets and drawers? Gunnar has decided that drawers and doors of all kinds are fascinating, and he keeps pinching his fingers. We have moved dangerous items out of reach, of course, but I'm not sure how to keep him from opening things enough to catch his fingers. Even the latches let you open them slightly.


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## helena

We have latches on the drawers in the kitchen, but yes they can still open a bit. I am assuming that after a few trapping of fingers they will give up!? I cant remember it happening often with my sons..
I must get a lock the cupboard under the sink. Kiara loves opening that and tries rummaging in the bin...yuk!

We have magnetic locks on some cupboards, they are brilliant and very child proof and no opening at all by the little ones, so no trapped fingers. https://www.amazon.com/KidCo-Adhesive-Mount-Magnet-Lock-Starter/dp/B000WX5JXS

I have them on the cupboards where I keep rice and pasta. Kiara looooves it when I have forgotten to love that. S many nice rattley packets!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I'm so glad you guys are headed home! I know that no matter how wonderful a trip is, it's always SO nice to be home to your own bed and your own routine. :D

Helena, I'm so sorry Kiara has been so sick! I'm glad she seems to be on the tail end of it, though. Hopefully it will be gone altogether soon. I totally understand the light sleeping! I used to wear ear plugs to sleep before having kids, because DH snores so terribly. Once we had babies I miss being able to block out the world and just SLEEP! Ahhh.... someday...

Dragon, we still have leftover childproofing from [email protected], and have discovered which things they ALL seem to gravitate toward. We have latches on all of the kitchen cabinets, except the one that has "kid safe" plates, bowls and cups. THey all have free access to that cupboard. We also covered all of the outlets and put all dangerous chemicals on the top shelf of a closet (since the girls can open the baby proofing, obviously... and Drano and stuff can be deadly before I could run across the room). The only thing we have to do is put the baby gates back up. We put one at the bottom of the stairs to keep them from climbing up during the day, and a bunch of panels from a play yard go across the sunken living room (now messy playroom) to keep it escape-proof. :haha: This time around it's a bit different because we have to worry about the girls leaving Legos, little balls, and other small toys around for Max to pick up. We have to have "MaxSafe" zones where they girls know they can't put their little toys. So far it's the living room and the play yard. 

Max had his one year appointment yesterday! :D The Doctor says everything looks fantastic. He's a little chubby (duh) but nothing to worry about. Apparently his head size has grown off the charts!! They showed me a chart and he's WAY above the 99% line, lol. Poor huge-headed children. I blame my own genes, unfortunately.


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## DragonflyWing

What's Max's height and weight? I'm actually worried that G & L are getting a bit lean. Lily lost her little belly roll, and Gunnar doesn't have as many creases in his arms and legs. I think she's around 19 lbs, and he's about 22 lbs. They have their 1 year appointment on 2/26 (2 months late! oops!), so I suppose I'll find out then.

I think they need to eat more solid foods. DH feeds them one meal while I'm at work, and I usually feed them something high protein in the evening (last night it was cheese cubes, beans, and some bread). Sometimes they have a snack at some point...but overall they're still mostly on formula. They still drink 30+ oz a day each. 

DH says he doesn't have time to feed them solids more than once during the day. I'm worried that it's just not enough. Although they don't seem hungry at all, they might not be getting enough calories to gain weight at the right pace. We'll see what the doctor says.

Speaking of doctors, my doctor had an emergency last night and had to cancel my appointment. I saw one of the other doctors in the practice instead, and I was less than impressed with him. He felt the lymph node and agreed that it was significantly enlarged. He didn't do any further examination at all. He asked me some questions, and then said "So, have you been looking stuff up on the internet? Let me ask you, do you have an agenda?" I was confused and didn't know what to say. I just said that I wanted to get it checked out because it had been there for so long, and was growing.

He was completely dismissing my concerns until I mentioned that I've had 3 CT scans over the past year due to enlarged nodes in my chest and lungs. He hadn't even read my chart! With that info, he decided to do some bloodwork and a chest x-ray. He looked at the x-ray and told me he'd send it to the radiologist to read, but that "it looks boring." I left feeling kind of dumbfounded, he had such a strange bedside manner.


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, what odd comments by your Doctor! I would be livid... :growlmad: I think he was completely inappropriate and I would complain. I want to tell him off for you!!! "Her AGENDA is to get quality care, which apparently isn't possible today." Jerk.

Max's height was 30 inches and he's 24 pounds... :blush: His head circumference was 49.5cm, for reference when you go in. I wouldn't worry too much about the twins' weight. They just started walking and being mobile which can lean them out SUPER quickly. I'm actually hoping Max leans out a little now that he's cruising. He does eat a lot more solids, though. He eats at the table about 5 times a day. It totally varies in amount from a small orange to a whole meal that we're having. He also still drinks about 30 oz of formula a day! No wonder he's a little chunker...lol.


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## SierraJourney

I have Camden's 1 year checkup tomorrow---very anxious to see what he weighs! Camden eats 3 meals of solid foods a day and eats 2 snacks. So far today, he has had baby cereal and a slice of toast for breakfast, a whole banana for snack (he LOVES bananas), and a big bowl of soup for lunch. He'll probably have black beans for his afternoon snack---have any of you tried that with you babies? Camden LOVES black beans---they are perfect size for them to pick up and super good protein! 

As far as baby proofing, we only have a gate at the top of the basement stairs so he doesn't fall down. I'm looking into getting a couple more gates for the upstairs and safety locks on the cupboards (I'm so tired of having to tell him "no" when all he wants to do is explore! Safety locks will put my mind at ease).

We had Camden's birthday with just DH and I on Monday----gave him a small gift and let him eat a cupcake. His eyes lit up when we gave it to him and he smashed it all over his face. . .he was having so much fun! His "big"birthday party is on Saturday---with grandparents, aunt, uncles, and cousins. We kept it to immediate family only, but that still totals 18 people! I'm a bit worried about the chaos for the poor guy---he's a quiet-loving person like his parents. We're quite a somber family. ;)


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---it might not hurt to go to a ears, nose, throat doctor if you get no where with your regular doctor. Not to scare you, but I had lymphoma when I was younger, and the regular doctor kept telling me it was nothing. We went on for 4 years without knowing and finally demanded to see a ears, nose, throat doctor---only to find out it was lymphoma. Lymph nodes swell all of the time, so I wouldn't get too worried, but just make sure they are giving you the time of day you deserve. How rude of that doctor!! :(


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks! I got most of my lab results today. It was normal except for the sedimentation rate (ESR), which was somewhat elevated. They said that means there's inflammation somewhere in my body, but it doesn't specify what or where it is. The nurse said the normal range is 0-20, and mine was 29...so not really that high. It sounded like the doctor didn't think it was cause for concern. Still waiting for the results of my x-ray.

Sierra, that's scary! What were your symptoms before you were diagnosed? If this doctor is unhelpful and the lymph node doesn't shrink in a couple weeks, I'll see about going to an ENT.


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## helena

Glad Camden enjoyed his cake :) happy birthday!!!

Wamommy, it's so funny - my best friend (since we were 8) must have similar head genes to you and the doctor once described her baby's head as "off the scale!" Hehehe. I can't remember if it was her son or daughter, but either way, they don't look top heavy now :)

Have started Kiara in pull up pampers during the day, since she has decided that nappy changing time = torture. She screams and screams and refuses to lie down longer than absolutely necessary. Beastie.


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## DragonflyWing

Both of mine have started hating diaper changes too! As soon as I head toward the changing table, they turn into a baby scarf and wrap themselves around my neck trying to keep from being put down. Then as soon as they touch the table, they scream like it's made of lava and do everything they can to leap off. 75% of the time I can get them to lie still by giving them a hairbrush to play with or tickling them. The other 25% of the time they scream and thrash around through the whole thing.

We had to install a second heavy duty strap on the changing pad so they don't fall off. It took 10 years off my life the time Gunnar managed to take a dive.


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## wamommy

Happy Birthday, Camden!! I hope this weekend's party is fun and not too overwhelming for him!

I'm so glad it's not just Max who hates diaper changes!! I thought he'd gone mad. It's SO tough (especially with a poo) to get him to stay still. He wraps his legs around my arm like a wrestler to keep me from wiping... :wacko: Sometimes I have to call DH to come hold whatever limb he's currently flailing so that I can change him!


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## Kellen

Teagen has been fighting the diaper changes for the last few months. LOL. We have perfected the standing change. Since she uses the potty quite a bit things have become less traumatic for the both of us. She is too long for her changing table so we have started using it as a dresser for her clothes.

Happy Birthday, Camden! I understand your love of peace and quiet.

We are home now. Teagen was up at 4:45am which would have been a quarter til 7 Texas time. She spent most of the night in her crib and didn't fuss at all when we put her to bed.


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## wamommy

Happy belated Valentine's Day, Valentines Ladies!! How was everyone's day/weekend? 

DD was up all night sick the night before Valentines and ended up missing school. She was really bummed to miss her "friendship party" they were having, and spent the day sleeping on the couch with a fever. :( I now seem to have caught whatever she had and am SO tired and sore. I just want to sleep, sleep, sleep. She's all better today, so at least I know this bug has a short life.

Sierra, how was Camden's party?


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## Kellen

We have colds all around. Teagen's cousin (who's party we shared) was sick and we caught it. I was the first victim, then Teagen, the great-grandma, and now my mom. So nice of my SIL to let us know her child was sick...

Happy Valentine's a little late!

How is the weather treating everyone? We have some substantial flooding is our neck of the woods. So glad we don't live in Atlanta anymore.


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## SierraJourney

The party went great! We were all super tired after it, but he enjoyed playing with his cousins. He didn't quite like the cake this time. . .I think he's more of a chocolate fan like his momma :haha: 

We have crazy diaper changes too---Camden has started throwing fits whenever he doesn't want something---especially diaper changes. He will arch his back, kick, and scream! How do you all handle that? I just tell him "no" and make him stay there until I am done. . . I think this age is so hard because they understand, yet don't. :shrug:

How are everyone's colds doing? Camden's cousins had colds, so I'm expecting us to get hit here this week. :(

I hope the flooding lets up Kellen! Stay safe!!


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## DragonflyWing

It must be the week for colds! The twins have runny noses, and I woke up this morning with a scratchy throat and almost no voice...really inconvenient, because I spend a good portion of my day at work on the phone! Can't really make phone calls if I can't talk.

On a happy note, the rest of my blood tests came back normal, and my chest x-ray was fine. The doctor said I can just follow-up in 3 months if the lymph node doesn't go away, or sooner if it gets bigger or I develop any other symptoms.


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## wamommy

Kellen, I hope you all feel better! My Mom does that, brings my niece over when she's sick. It drives me NUTS! I feel like saying, "thanks Mom... now I don't get to sleep for a week..." :haha:

Sierra, I'm glad Camden's bday went well! I don't have a magic secret for the tantrums, though. Max has started freaking out when he wants something (or doesn't want it) and it's really tough to deal with. He's strong too, so I've had my share of head butts and kicks to the tummy. Luckily I think baby is well cushioned in there. I just hold Max down for diaper changes and explain to him that "it's really not that bad." :rofl:


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## wamommy

Dragon, SO glad your tests came back normal!!! I'm sorry you're all sick too, though. :( Get well, everyone!


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## SierraJourney

Dragon---so glad your tests came back okay!! I think I forgot to answer your questions about the other symptoms I had. (Sorry!!) Mostly, it was just the lump, but I had night sweats all of the time (my bed would be soaked every night)-- I didn't know until after my diagnosis that that was a symptom.. .I just figured I sweated a lot! :haha: I also couldn't breath well if I laid down flat on my back--again, I didn't know that was a symptom. . .just thought I ha asthma or something. They ended up finding a 5 inch diameter mass in my chest, which was why I couldn't breath. . . but mostly, just a weird lump in my neck. . . The chest xray would have shown anything serious, I'm thinking. I hope the lump disappears for you so you don't have to worry anymore!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---I always tell Camden that "you're okay--this has to be done". ;)


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## Kellen

Sierra - I am glad that the party was a success and that Camden enjoyed all of his cousins. Too bad the cake was a bust... We haven't let Teagen try chocolate yet despite the fact that her uncle bought her a dozen chocolate doughnuts.

Our colds are pretty much gone thanks to some homeopathic cold tablet things. Teagen wasn't overly fond of the baby ones so I had to dissolve them in her water.

This is the third time I've type all of this out... The first time Teagen woke up from a 2 minute nap. Yes, two minutes. She had been up since 5:30 and we laid down at 9. So I needed a break and put her in her crib with a box of toys and turned on a movie for her. I managed to type up a nice posting here, but then the blue screen of death happened. Great... Typed it all up again, then Teagen started screaming bloody murder, jumped up, knocked the computer over... She had almost fallen asleep by herself and it frightened her :dohh:

So we took a shower together, played with some toys, fed each other applesauce, washed a few dishes. Then I needed to use the restroom and she was quietly playing with toys. When I walk back in the room she had managed to grab the box that normally houses the humidifier, stand it against the counter, climb on said box, and grab her Daddy's coffee cup and was draining the last couple of sips from it.

Thankfully at 11 she decided she was tired so she grab my hand and led me to the bed. LOL. Now I have consumed half a bag of Valentine's Reese's in hope of getting a sugar rush and surviving the rest of the day.


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## Kellen

Dragon - So glad the results came back normal!

Teagen HATES diaper changes too. I told her that as soon as she learns how to pull her pants down by herself we will switch to pull ups or panties and she can use the big girl potty. But mostly I stand her facing the back of the couch and pin her there until the diaper is on.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--I hope the sugar rush works! Sounds like a rough morning!! What a smart little cookie Teagen is! 

The cake was Camden's first taste of chocolate. . .but I can tell he'll be addicted like me! :haha: 

I might have to try the pinning to the couch idea! Thanks! ;)


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks, ladies! It was a relief to see that all the tests were normal. I have more lymph nodes up in my neck today, but I'm sure that's from whatever virus I'm fighting. I'm going to put it all out of my mind unless any other symptoms pop up. 

Sierra, thank you for the additional info on your symptoms- that's so scary, and I'm sorry you had to go through all that. I remember you saying that you need to get checked periodically to be sure everything's still clear, and I'm SO glad that you made a complete recovery. 

Do you all think it's normal to bond with one twin a little more than the other? Or for one parent to bond more with one and the other parent bond more with the other baby? I love both my babies equally, but it seems like Lily and I have a more affectionate relationship at this point. Gunnar is so independent that he almost never wants to stop for a cuddle with his Mama, and when he's upset, he usually wants DH. When Lily is upset or hurt, she usually reaches for me rather than DH. She also cuddles more, and gives me kisses and hugs. Also, she sleeps in the crib in my bedroom, while Gunnar sleeps in his pack n' play in the living room (this is so they don't wake each other in the night). When Gunnar wakes up at night, DH goes to him, and when Lily wakes up, I go to her. We didn't really decide this, it just sort of happens. Lily also sleeps in bed with me once in a while if she's having a bad night and won't stay in her crib, and she loves to be held while she sleeps. Gunnar hates being held while he sleeps, and will only go to sleep on his own. 

Gunnar and I do have our cuddle time (when he'll slow down enough to allow it!), and we all play together and are bonded...it just makes me feel a little guilty that I tend to understand and relate to Lily more, and DH understands and relates to Gunnar more. I don't ever want them to feel like we play favorites.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon---that's a good question! I would think it'd be natural for them to gravitate to one or the other of you---they probably realize that they get more attention if they go towards one of you instead of both of them going to the same parent! It sounds like you're doing just fine!


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## wamommy

Haha Kellen, your day sounds eventful! I hope the Reese's gave you a boost (or at least were REALLY yummy!) and that Teagen finally gave you a break.

Dragon, I wouldn't feel guilty about bonding more with one twin than the other. I think it's totally natural. My girls are 18 months apart and when the second one was born I had to take almost complete charge of her, with breast feeding and all. DH started bonding with/spending more time with DD#1, which at first made me REALLY sad... I felt like I turned my back on her and that DH was "stealing" my relationship with her... It seems silly now, but it was real and very painful. To this day DH has a really special relationship with DD#1. It isn't that he loves her more than the others, but they naturally get along well and have a special bond. I have learned not to fight it, and to recognize that as long as each child is getting their needs met, no matter WHO is meeting them, Yay. :) My personal parenting philosophy is very simple. I tend to over complicate things at times, but ultimately it come down to this: If a child knows they are loved, without doubt or conditions, every day of their life, they'll be fine. I hope that helps!

I'm off to do an hour of a terrible Prenatal Barre workout. It really is quite hard!


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks for the reassurance :)

Ugh, whatever virus I have is really kicking my butt. I'm on day 3 with no voice, plus sore throat, body aches, and a painful cough. DH keeps telling me I'm just dehydrated, not actually sick. If he says "but you don't look sick" one more time, I'm going to kick him in the shin. 

Monday I was able to work fine, except I couldn't make phone calls. Yesterday, I had to take a couple hours off to nap. Today, I could hardly get out of bed, so I'm working from my bedroom. Still can't make any of my phone calls, some of which are time sensitive, so I'm going to have to find someone else to help with those. I keep getting emails from various people saying "Can you talk yet??" 

I wish I could just go to sleep, but I took a day off last week, so I feel guilty. However, it doesn't seem like I'm going to make a quick recovery if I don't rest. *sigh*


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so sorry you're so sick! Whatever it is that you have, I think I have too! My kids all had it one by one, but they were able to beat it in a day or two. This is day 3 for me and I woke up feeling AWFUL. I can barely breathe and my throat and airway are so raw. It's miserable! I can't imagine having to work through it, much less make phone calls. All I want is a nap, but that's impossible... :( Actually, we're driving an HOUR in the car today to buy a slightly used car seat for the baby, so maybe I'll sleep in the car! I'm really excited about the car seat. We used the same one for the first 3 babies, but it's seen better days and is now expired. We're getting a fancy new model that still works with our stroller. :D


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## Kellen

Dragon and Wamommy - Sounds like you two had the same bug that hit our house last week. Thankfully I was able to shake it after four days, but grandparents chipped in and let me take a couple of naps. I also doubled up on my vitamins and fruit intake! I hope you two get to feeling better.

Exciting news about the carseat! Glad that you were able to find an updated model that still works with the stroller.

The past two days Teagen has fought her naps. I think we are officially transitioning from two naps down to one. This morning instead of trying to get her to go to sleep at 10:30 I allowed her to stay up until she started becoming cranky at noon. Now she is sound asleep on the bed and I'm actually enjoying a HOT lunch. But we did do a bunch of stuff before nap such as talk to chickens, find an egg, pet some sheep, swing on her outside swing and play with rocks. We have a rare spot of sunshine so I took full advantage of the lull in the rain and played outside for as long as possible.

I doubt anyone remembers, but last year DH went through the process of getting his TWIC, MMC and passport renewed so he could try to find employment that he would enjoy upon a ship. Well, we've applied to over 60 companies and no one has even called him back... until! A friend of a friend posted a position on FB that DH qualifies for with a name and number to the head of HR for a cruiseline. DH has phone interviews with them for the next two days. Then he has another friend who is checking with his head-head hunter about a position with his shipping company. It only took a year, but things are looking up.

In other not so fantastic news my mom just found out she has to get her hip replaced. But after her two knee replacements as well as my dad's they are very well acquainted with the surgeon.

Yesterday we went to the feed store to check on prices for animal supplies. They had the most adorable baby chicks! Teagen was enthralled and signing "chicken" the entire time. I had to bodily drag her away so we could finish shopping. As we were walking through the store she starts signing dog and runs over to a bunch of dog toys. Now, no one had said the word "dog" nor was there a picture of a dog on the bin only the word. I leave you to draw your own conclusions. Signing Time shows the word, says the word and signs the word...


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## helena

Hi ladies! A writing from a very sunny France. 11 degrees though it feels like more and glorious sun, I just sat outside for a minute in jeans and a blouse, no jacket!!

Dragon - maybe you're not bonding more with one baby than the other it's just that your relationships wither ch are different? I know my second son doesn't always like hugging. He is happy in his own space sometimes. At bedtime my first son would keep me in their room as long as possible while second son says "mummy, turn the light off!". Different children, different relationships.

We are still on one nap a day for most days. She gets grumpy around 11 but I keep her going for an hour and the we have lunch at 12 when her brothers come home to eat, so that keeps her going another hour and then at 1 she can sleep. It makes for a nice quiet afternoon :)

Kellen, if your DH works on a ship will that mean him being away a lot? 

Today I realized how tall kiara is getting - she reached up and grabbed the top of a bowl of weetabix on the table. Splash! All down her...I will have to remember to not leave anything by the table edge...

Appointment next Monday to discuss mastectomy ideas with surgeon. Nervous but pleased my gyno sent me on to him without any doubt. Don't think we would get the op done until 2015 but need to discuss and make plans. And speak with the health insurance!

Kiara asleep and others at school. Time for a quiet a English tea :)


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy- it sure sounds like you have what I have...it feels like someone scrubbed my throat and airways with steel wool! I don't think I've ever lost my voice for this long. My throat is worst in the mornings; by the evening I have been able to talk a little bit, but then I feel exhausted and all I can do is lie on the couch.

Kellen- it sounds like she recognized the word! That's so cool. 

helena- good luck at your appointment :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Gunnar has roseola! He had a high fever for 3 days (103-105 degrees, poor little guy), then it went away and he broke out in a rash all over his body. I freaked out a bit at first, but when I did some research, I found out it's extremely common in kids under 2, and the rash is harmless. Hopefully it will clear up in a day or two and he'll be good as new. Lily hasn't shown any signs of illness, so hopefully it will skip her entirely!

My laryngitis is improving now, thankfully. I was almost entirely without a voice for 6 days before it started getting better. I'm not 100% yet, but I have some of my energy back and I can finally talk on the phone at work! 

How was everyone's weekend?


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## wamommy

Dragon, I hope Gunnar feels better! Poor little guy. :( It's so tough to watch a baby feel sick because you can't even explain what's going on! I hope he feels better.

Helena, good luck at your appointment! You are so incredibly brave. I hope they give you a lot of information, which is always comforting to me. I am still in awe at how you're handling it all.

Kellen, it sounds like Teagen is recognizing words! That's awesome! Definitely encourage that, if she's prone to visual learning like that. So cool.

I'm still sick and totally miserable here. As if third trimester wasn't exhausting enough (especially with 3 other kids!), being sick on top of it all is so hard. I feel like someone drugged me with a really strong relaxant. I'm completely exhausted and feel like I'm swimming through the day. Bleh. I even cut out my nightly sugary treat in an effort to bolster my immune system! Maybe I'll ask my OB tomorrow at my 31 week appointment if there's anything safe for me to take. What I want more than anything in life this week is a glass of wine, a bath, and a FULL NIGHT sleep. Haha, a girl can dream.


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## helena

Having had roseola a week or so back, (2?..I lose track!) Kiara is now on a new fever and virus :( it's been endless fora. Week - each son in turn and now Kiara. And DH has a more serious "man flu" stylee version of the same virus...

Surgeon was fine. Was happy to do the op, gave me lots to think about. He seemed to think I was pretty radical for Switzerland. Prophylactic mastectomies here aren't very common, especially for those who haven't had the brca gene test. But he understood my points and seemed to think I wasn't crazy :) am happy to be described as radical. I am so ok about it all. It's an easy choice for me.
The receptionist did mention Angelina Jolie which annoyed me quite frankly. I'm not just wanting to be her or do an "Angelina"... It's been on my mind for a year now.

Ok, whingey girl needs me.have a good day all x x x


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## wamommy

Helena, I totally understand not wanting to feel like this decision is "trendy" or made to emulate a celebrity. That would annoy me, too! I love your new avatar pic btw. :D So cute.

After much deliberation, we cut Max's hair! It's not perfect (we did it at home) but his hair was getting WAY too crazy, so something had to be done. :haha:
 



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## helena

Oh what a smart young man. Love it xx


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## Kellen

I had a lovely long post and BNB deleted it and timed me out.

The long and short of it.

Helena - Sorry your family is battling the bug, but glad the surgeon is on board with your decision.

Dragon - Glad to hear you are getting better. Poor Gunnar!

Wamommy - Force your DH to take the kids out for a couple of hours and allow yourself to nap. How are you already 32 weeks along?

DH is semi-officially hired by the cruise line. This means he will be gone for 90 days at a time. Teagen and I will manage. All he needs is 90 days before he can sit to upgrade his license to 3rd Mate and then only be gone a month at a time.

Life is super busy. Last week we were down at the California Maritime Academy (my undergrad) so DH could take a Vessel Security class he needed. Next week we are up at Pacific Maritime Institute in Seattle. I cheerfully informed my sister that we are crashing her house and she thankfully responded that he can kick my nephew out of his room. :haha:

Teagen got to play in her first mud puddle today. She is growing up so quickly. She refuses to use her fingers to eat if the adults are using utensils so she is become fairly adroit at using a fork to stab things.
 



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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, the pictures of Max and Teagen are so adorable!

Poor Gunnar ended up with an ear infection last week, so he's on antibiotics now. Thursday morning I woke up with a killer sinus infection, I felt like my face was going to explode. Turned out both of my ears were infected, too, so now I'm on antibiotics as well. I'm sick of being sick! :haha:

Apparently the antibiotic I'm taking is hard on your stomach if you don't take it with food. I took it on an empty stomach yesterday morning, and then had to pull over to throw up on the side of the road. Very classy. I'm going to ask for a different antibiotic, because I've been nauseated for over 24 hours now. Blah.

Our wedding anniversary was last week, and we went out to dinner on Saturday to celebrate while my sister in law watched the twins. It was very nice to have some time to ourselves!

Kellen- congrats to your husband! I'm sure it will be difficult having him gone for so long, though :hugs:


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## wamommy

Lucky Teagen, getting to play in the mud! Did she like it? So cute!

Dragonfly, I hope you feel better! Yikes. It sounds like the cold from Hell. Being sick is horrible. Happy anniversary, though! I'm glad you and DH had some time to yourselves. 

Kellen, I can't believe I'm almost 32 weeks either. It's gone by shockingly fast, and to be honest I'm terrified! I'd estimate this baby will be born around 38 weeks like the other 3, which leaves me only 6 weeks to prepare!! :dohh:


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## Kellen

Happy Belated Anniversary, Dragon! Glad that you and DH were able to find a moment alone. It sounds like you are getting hit up one side and down the other with all this sickness. I hope you and poor Gunnar start to feel better soon.

Wamommy - Oh wow! 6 weeks certainly isn't very far away. How are your weekly trips to the doctor going?

Teagen pretty much loved the mud. She wasn't too fond of the leaves that were in the mud and had me pick them off her tongue. LOL, silly girl! She was thoroughly drenched by the time I picked her up and carried her inside. At first I was just going to let her stomp in the puddles, but she sat down before I could stop her so I figured she might as well have fun!

It will be difficult in someways to have DH gone, but it will be easier in others. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE having him here, but it needs to be constant. The two days off thing completely throws Teagen's daytime schedule out of whack. With this job he'll get a month off in between hitches. That month will allow us to all acclimate and get schedules and sleep under control. This job also pays four times more than what he is currently making.

Teagen's sleep has been awesome! Last night she slept from 8pm - 3:30am without waking up and then went back to sleep until 6:30 when she woke up for the day. I think we finally have bedtime down to a solid routine. Now I am able to actually put her in her crib while she is semi-awake and she'll put herself to sleep as I sing. I feel like I could actually have someone else do it if absolutely needed. She is trying to cut back to one nap a day, but it depends on the level of activity in the morning. Today is rainy so we can't go outside and DH is off at an eye doctor appointment so she is taking a nap and will have one this afternoon.

We managed to get our taxes done over the weekend. DH HATES doing them so I pretty much had to tie him to the bed. He did help and all of the e-files have been accepted.


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## DragonflyWing

Ugh taxes!! DH owns his own business, so his taxes are pretty complicated. Last year was the first year we were filing jointly, and he had to file for an extension because he couldn't get it all done. So we still haven't done 2012's taxes, and now 2013's are going to be due! 

I've done everything I can do from my end, but he hasn't been able to find time to work on his stuff. It's VERY frustrating, because we're due a large refund, and that's money we could *really* use right now. I keep telling him that we should just file separately, since the majority of the refund is from my withholding, and I can simply e-file mine in about 10 minutes and have the money in a week. However, he's convinced that we'll get more money if we file jointly, so I've been stuck for over a year.


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## wamommy

I'm not going to talk about taxes... I might explode. :wacko: Let's just say DH "handles" all of that... but doesn't.

Kellen, my doctor's appointments are going pretty well. I have an ultrasound on the 14th and then non-stress tests every week after that. :( I've gained about 14 pounds so far, and am starting to get uncomfortable. I had a dream last night that this baby was a girl, and up until this point I've been sure it's a boy, so who knows!

I'm so glad Teagen is sleeping well!! Good girl! :D Max is still horrid in that department. He sleeps in his crib only if I can sneak him in there and then tip toe away when he's completely out. He lasts between one hour and 3 hours in his crib, and then he wakes up and stands there screaming bloody murder until I bring him to bed with me. At that point I'm usually too exhausted to go through the whole process again and I just let him sleep with me. :blush: At least that way I can just feed him half asleep or give him a back rub and he'll go back down without waking the whole house. I NEED to get this figured out in the next month or so. Ugh.


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry Max isn't sleeping well! I totally understand the temptation to bring him back to bed with you! Lily's crib is in our bedroom, and since DH usually sleeps on the couch (for some reason he suddenly became unable to sleep well in our room), it's usually just her and me sleeping in there. If she wakes up in the night, I try really hard to keep her quiet so she doesn't wake up everyone else, and it's SO tempting to just take her in the bed. I try really hard to calm her down so she'll stay in the crib, but sometimes it just can't be helped. 

It backfired on me the other day, though! I was so tired, and she absolutely would not calm down, so I brought her in the bed with me. Usually, she settles right down and goes to sleep. However, this time she was wide awake. She climbed all over me, and kissed all over my face trying to get me to wake up and play with her. Then, she decided I was boring, so she got down off the bed and crawled out into the living room to wake up DH :haha:


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## helena

Hi all,

Glad Taegan sleeps good. Sorry Max doesn't, you must be so tired wamommy!!
I am so lucky with Kiara going to sleep at bedtime - I literally just put her in her cot, give her Duckie (she loves!) and tell her to lie down. Occasionally I will have to go in one more time.
Last week she was sleeping 13 hours in a row! She would occasionally cry but settle herself after a few seconds.
This week it's different...she wakes at 11pm and wants to sleep with mummy. We have one molar half way through and a heavy cough that almost makes her vomit so I will let her off...
Once we are out of this crappy season and with less viruses about I do feel I may get decent sleep in the summer :)
One of Kiara's brothers has just decided to move into her room (3 yr old). Luckily she is fine with it.

Wow, 6 weeks wamommy!!!......

Kellen, a 4x pay increase is awesome!! X
Kiara is also keen on mud and regularly tries to eat those bits of wobbly soil on the lawn after it's rained (is that worm poo!?!....). Yuk!
Kiara is becoming such a gorgeous girl - worm poo aside.. (ok, I am biased!).. https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_image-3.jpg


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## DragonflyWing

Oh, what a cute photo, helena! She looks so grown up!


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! Your kiddos are so cute--love the pictures! 

Things have been crazy around here--work has been super busy, and we are having the floor of our bathroom replaced as well as Camden's shower tiled (he's been using our bathtub since October and it's a pain because we have these shower doors we have to lean over to scrub him. . .) Hopefully within a week it'll all be over with. But in the meantime, Camden can't nap because of all of the banging going on in the house! It makes for a very long day of work for Mommy! 

But, I just wanted to check in and let you all know I'm reading and I'm here. . .just a bit silent! ;)


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## wamommy

What a little lady Kiara is becoming! She has such a bright and happy smile. :D

Sierra, I'm sorry to hear the construction is a pain, but it sounds like the result will be worth it. I wish we were able to change some things like that! We're thinking of adding a room to our house, since we already have a large covered back porch that would be pretty easy/cost effective to convert. The trick is coming up with the extra cash! It would make a GREAT bedroom or "bonus room" for the kids to make messes in so that we could re-claim the living room. :haha: In any case, I'm glad you're ok and just busy. I had been wondering if all was well!

We've been struggling with my oldest daughter this week. She's been inexplicably crying at school. The teacher called me concerned. :( After some questioning I think it's because she is afraid of getting in trouble for making mistakes, and as the work gets harder and harder she puts a ton of pressure on herself. I wish I knew how to help her! It's so tough to watch her get anxious and be so hard on herself. I feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong. :(


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy--we've been saving a long while for these changes! I hate how much up-front cash it takes! :( A bonus room sounds FABULOUS! I would love that someday! I hope you get to do it!

I'm sorry about your oldest daughter. :( Poor girl. I always put a lot of pressure on myself at school too. . .I'm very perfectionistic by nature, so I know that's why. . . It's not fun at all. :( Could you maybe "make" some mistakes at home and show her that everyone makes mistakes and it's okay? (I'm just brainstorming here, but maybe be coloring a picture with her or something and 'accidentally' go out of the lines---but then forgive yourself and say "That's okay---everyone makes mistakes sometimes!") That's got to be hard as a mom---I hope you figure it out!!


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## helena

So cool Camden has his own shower! :)

Oh wamommy, it's heartbreaking the older they get and the more deep their troubles cut isn't it? Least I find so. From what I know of you you are a kind person, no doubt a lovely mum and that's all your daughter needs - mummy's cuddles and understanding. Letting our babies work out how to deal with all the new emotions and pressures of life a bit by themselves is so tough. We can advise and guide but they need to "do" it all themselves...I have felt a lot of my sons stress in the he last year. He started a new school has mastered a new language and made new friends. I can't imagine going to a new school, into an established class who know each other, who all speak a language that is a bit vague to you...

But he came through. He had night terrors for a while. But is now bilingual and has lots of friends and this week started reading. It's amazing what these children of ours can do.
Your daughter is sad right now, but with your hugs I bet she will find her way. I hope so, for you both, it's painful I know. ((Hug))

Didn't mean to make that about me and my son. Just wanted to say how amazing kids are. And with you as her amazing mum she'll get there xxx


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## wamommy

Thank you so much ladies for your kind words! :hugs: Helena, I appreciate the story about your son. I can't imagine how hard it was for him, but it sounds like he's doing great! I hope my daughter can turn a corner and do so well. Actually, when I picked he up from school yesterday the teacher said that she had a great day with no tears! We took the girls roller skating to celebrate a "happy day" at school, lol. I'm really hoping she's moved past whatever is really causing so much anxiety. Poor girl.

We also registered my DD#2 for kindergarten next year. I seriously can't believe that she is old enough! It seems like yesterday that she was in my lap ripping up paper like Max is doing right now. I suppose it's good that next school year both girls will be gone most of the day so that I will only have the two youngest to chase around, but I am sure sad and will certainly miss them!

So, Max still isn't walking... :dohh: Do you think that's fine? He stands with support, like holding onto the couch or something, but still hasn't even attempted a step. My girls were running wild by this age! At what age do I get concerned?


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## DragonflyWing

I think it's fine that Max isn't walking yet. I think the average age is 12 months, but it's totally normal to start at 15-16 months, too. Gunnar started walking just shy of 14 months, but Lily still is holding on to furniture at almost 15 months.

Does he walk if you hold his hands? That might be a good way to practice. :)


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> Does he walk if you hold his hands? That might be a good way to practice. :)

He doesn't! That's the weird thing. When I try to practice by holding his hands he thinks it's a game and collapses to the floor or just hangs there laughing. At least I'm glad to hear the twins walked in their own time, too!


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## Kellen

Maybe Teagen can teach him? She taught her 15 month old friend how to climb :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Camden isn't walking either, wamommy! Not even a step! He sits down as soon as we try to encourage him to take a step. . haha. .. I'm just aiming for him to start walking by this summer. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, something so funny happened this morning!

DH was sleeping on the couch, and Lily was in the pack 'n play a few feet away from him. I walked into the room to get my shoes (I was heading out to work), and Lily was standing up, looking at DH. She turned to me, pointed at DH, and yelled gleefully "Daddy's dead!"

I had a moment of panic, but DH was fine :haha: I'm pretty sure she didn't actually mean it or even know what she said, but it was clear as day!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## SierraJourney

Oh my goodness Dragon! How crazy is that?! What a cutie! 

Anyone else have trouble with people feeding your lo off of their plate or letting lo drink from their glass? There are several family members (on both DH's side and mine) who share their food and drink with Camden. I feel fine saying something to my family (and do on a regular basis), but I don't know how to tactfully say it to DH's family. But it drives me CRAZY! Seriously, why do I want my kid drinking from a glass that has your saliva on it?! I know I'm a germ-freak, but this just grosses me out! How do you all deal with it? Is it one of those things that I need to just "let go"?


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## wamommy

Haha, Dragon!! How cute!! I would have cried laughing. What a character Lily is! :D

Sierra, I am a total germ freak too, so I get it. With DD#1 I religiously used a shopping cart cover, sanitized EVERYTHING and would replace any food, toys or silverware that hit the floor. If someone were to share a straw with her I would have flipped. That said, now that I'm on #3 I have relaxed a lot about that. I still tense up and get anxious when someone near is coughing, and I still hate when people kiss his hands, but Max has WAY more germ exposure than I ever thought I'd accept. I just don't have the time or energy that I used to, and it's just easier to "chance it." As far as your situation is concerned, I'd do whatever YOU are comfortable with. Hopefully anyone would accept that it's just love/concern for your LO that makes you worry. :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

The only thing I tell people about feeding the twins is that they can't have milk products. Other than that, I don't mind people giving them food or letting them drink from their cups. Obviously, if someone is sick I expect them to keep their germs to themselves, but I'm really not uptight about sharing utensils and stuff like that. My kids sometimes lick the floor...so I guess I shouldn't worry about them sharing their cousin's cup :wacko: Hopefully they will have good immune systems! :haha:


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## helena

I'm not worried about Kiara drinking from others cups etc either. Before I know it she will be a in the park in summer rushing to pick up anyone's sippy cup she can and having a glug (least my sons had this obsession!). As long as the food hasn't been previously chewed I don't see an issue. Unless someone is ill, as dragon said.
Kiara is constantly stealing food from her brothers or me and her dad. And in fact from anyone she can when at playgroup. She is a piggy :)

I heard that people are getting too many allergies as a result of our world being too sterile these days. I don't think Kiara has a worry about this after eating a mouth full of compost in the garden today, sucking several stones and finishing off with a fist full of sand from the year old sandpit..bleurgh.


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## wamommy

Eew, Helena! :haha: The grossest thing my kids ever did was when DD#1 was about 1.5 and she reached in her diaper, pulled out some poo, and then licked her fingers! I about died. She never did it again, so I think she learned it didn't taste very good!


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## helena

Oooh gross! Lol.

In fact I did forget Kiara's most yuk moment today - when I looked down and she was popping in a big fat white grub from in the compost!one of these: https://images.property24.com/FetchImage.ashx?type=image&id=11b37609-567e-4d24-92be-ce186bb11b31.jpg

So glad I got there before she got her teeth in!!!! :wacko:


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## wamommy

:sick::sick::help:


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## SierraJourney

Oh Helena---I'm so glad you caught her! How gross! 

I really appreciate all of you ladies' input--it helps a lot! It's mainly sickness germs I'm worried about, but it helps to know that it's a part of life. :) 

We've had our bouts with gross things here, too. In fact, I just came home today, put Camden down on the floor to crawl around, then realized AFTER he did that the cat vomited on the floor. :( Also, wamommy--Camden actually ate a piece of his poop before, too.. . I had to scrape it out of his mouth!! :(


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## wamommy

Oh gross, Sierra! :haha: It's amazing kids grow up at all. I suppose they are much more durable than we think!

How is everyone doing? We're finally all well here. It's been a while since no one had a cold! I think we'll take the kids roller skating this afternoon, since it's only $2 on Tuesdays at our local rink. The kids have really taken to it, and it's one way to get them some exercise (which = earlier bedtime too!! :D) when the weather is terrible. We're actually supposed to have SUN tomorrow, so I'm thinking it may be time to go outside and pull some weeds.


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## Kellen

Teagen is teething again and it isn't a pretty sight. Her poor bottom gums are so swollen. However, that doesn't stop her from being a food mooch. Right now we are staying with my sister in Washington while DH finishes up some training. Last night Teagen made circles around the room and stolen pieces of chicken off of everyone's pizza and then ate half a bowl of mac and cheese. The last two nights she hasn't wanted to go to bed, but I think she was finally normalized enough that she fell asleep on her own in the pack n play.

DH received a really disturbing email from the company that hired him. Basically the people who own the boat aren't sure they want to hire another person right now, but will make a decision by next week. But for DH not to pursue any of the additional training that they requested he go ahead and get, but if he has to send them the bill. Gee, thanks! DH has already filed his two weeks and quit his other job and we've shelled out a lot of cash for the training. Awesome! I am trying not to freak out, but it is difficult.

Today during nap time I was putting Teagen in comfy clothes and changing her diaper and per the norm she was tired whining at me. As I was putting on her shirt she looks at me and says: "Dada say stop Momma." I replied, "Yes, Teagen, Daddy would ask you to stop whining at Mommy." She apparently didn't find my response correct and began to wail... :shrug:

Because Teagen has been struggling with referred ear pain I have been putting garlic drops in her ears before bed every night. Well, last night I couldn't find the drops so I decided that skipping one night wouldn't hurt. WRONG! She was up every 45-1 hr crying in pain. I found the drops and they are in her ears. I pray that tonight's sleep is better.

Teagen eating gross things doesn't really freak me out. Nor am I a huge germaphobe. Her newest semi-gross thing is she has learned how to pop the top off of the cat treat bottle. I caught her feeding herself a treat and then handing one to the kitty a couple days ago. She was sharing so I couldn't really scold her.

My mom is finally getting a dog (for her no dog is like no oxygen). They are adopting an English Shepard puppy who is 17 weeks old and had to be re-homed. I am pretty excited that Teagen will have a playmate this summer and a dog she can truly grow up with. The cat is nice and all, but she is 9 years old and a bit cranky at times.


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## DragonflyWing

Ummm....oh geez.
 



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## wamommy

Oh Dragonfly, that line is clear as day!!! Congrats!! :happydance: How do you feel about it? The twins are a little older now and would be 2 by the time the baby came, right? I can't believe it! :D Are you shocked? Had you been trying? I can't wait to get all of the details!!

Kellen, I'm so sorry to hear Teagen is struggling with her teeth. :( Max was up from 4-6am this morning, but I checked his gums and it doesn't seem like any new ones are coming in. :shrug: 

I would be pissed about DH's job! It isn't right to have you both turn your lives upside down only to pull the rug out. Hopefully he still has the job and all of this training will pay off. Ugh. How annoying!

I wish we could get a dog. We don't have the yard for it, and it wouldn't be fair as long as we live in this house. I suppose we could build a fence, but our yard is kind of on a giant hill with tiers, so a fence would be really unsightly. We have 3 cats, but it just isn't the same. I'm endlessly impressed by how well they put up with the kids, especially our big 9-year-old male. He actually lets the kids lie down on him and dress him in hats, etc. :haha: We also have a rescue cat that spent the first few months in a meth lab who has brain damage. She licks walls and stuff. It's sad, but kind of endearing. :rofl:


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## DragonflyWing

I'm freaking terrified! I just had to run to the bathroom at work to throw up, and I don't know if it's morning sickness or just plain fear! We weren't trying at all, in fact we were just joking the other day that the twins would be 10 before we were ready for another. I'm completely shocked and don't really know how to feel. 

I'm pretty sure I'm 9dpo, as I got a positive OPK on 3/3. We dtd 2 days before that, and I hadn't had any ewcm or anything at that point, so didn't think I was in my fertile window. With the twins, I got a BFN at 9dpo! Oh, I hope this isn't another set of twins. :wacko:

I've taken two tests now, and gotten two faint positives. I don't know how in the world I'm going to tell DH.


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## Kellen

Congrats, Dragon! I am sure you will find a way to let your DH know.


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## wamommy

I say just come out and tell him, and let him know how scared you are so you don't have to do it alone. My DH and I have a LOT of problems, but when it comes to "oh s#*t" moments we actually bond and work together quite well. Maybe he'd like to support you? How will he feel, do you think?


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## DragonflyWing

I think he'll be overwhelmed by the idea of taking care of 3 kids, and I have a feeling he'll be really worried about our finances. He already gives me a hard time about buying _anything_ that isn't strictly necessary...I'm sure that will be even worse.


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## wamommy

I think taking care of 3 kids will be harder, and a valid concern... but you guys can do it! Also, financially this baby should be pretty cheap. You have everything you need for a boy OR a girl, so really all you have to buy is diapers (and formula if you decide to formula feed). Realistically, we buy diapers on Craigslist or other online sites and pay about $40 a month. That's not a huge jump financially... but I understand being stressed about any new expense. 

I'm getting a bit freaked out as this baby gets closer to making an appearance. I've reached the uncomfortably huge stage of pregnancy where I just feel BLEH. I'm trying to enjoy it, since THIS IS OUR LAST!!! I'm just finding it hard not to stress about labor, birth, and then having a newborn along with Max, who I still consider my baby. :( It will all work itself out, I know, but now that the time is close, I'm having to face some of these fears I've squashed down throughout this pregnancy!


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## DragonflyWing

I can't believe how fast your pregnancy is going, wamommy! It's weird to think that you found out because I thought _I_ was pregnant at the time! Now you're almost done, and it's my turn :haha: Anyone else thinking about TTC again?


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## DragonflyWing

DH and I were emailing back and forth this afternoon about various things, and I mentioned that I was feeling sick and the smell of coffee made it worse (that was the first sign I was pregnant last time). He reassured me that it was very unlikely that I'm pregnant :wacko:, but that I should take a test tonight to set my mind at ease.

I think "finding out" at the same time will make things a lot easier. That way I don't really have to break the news to him, and we can deal with the results together.

I'm picking up a FRER on the way home. Wish me luck!

(wouldn't it be funny if it came up negative because it wasn't FMU?)


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## Kellen

I guess we had all better break out the POAS. Last time it was Wamommy... maybe Dragon is our pregnancy psychic. I know it is not me unless immaculate conception happened as DH was away at training.


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## wamommy

Good luck tonight, Dragon!! I hope DH gets excited when the two of you stare at the test together. :) Let us know how it goes, and a pic!

Kellen, I agree that you should all test again! Although this time I do think Dragon is actually pregnant, instead of sent by the fertility gods to make me test... :haha: Who will be next???


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## wamommy

Oops! Double post. Stinkin slow internet.


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## DragonflyWing

Took a test and had DH check the result. He was surprised, but totally fine with it! So relieved!

I got "Pregnant 1-2" on a digital. I guess that confirms it! I have to call my doctor first thing in the morning, because I'm on several prescription medications.


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## Kellen

Congrats, Dragon! I'm glad that you were able to test with DH present. I wish you and your family a happy and healthy full 9 months this go around.

DH passed his class and now we're just waiting to hear back from his sort of maybe kinda hopefully still job. He has one last test to take Saturday and then he is all set. I'm not really looking forward to the 8 hour drive home tomorrow. We still need to pick up a Seattle shot-glass as it is tradition wherever we visit we collect a unique one so it can sit on the mantel and collect dust.

Teagen was a holy terror tonight. She kept herself awake an hour and a half past bedtime so she could have DH talk to her. Miss Screams-a-Lot just about drove me up the wall. The only way she would stay still was sandwiched in between DH and I, nursing. After 90 minutes I finally picked her up and put her in the pack n play where she commenced to scream. I told her I was going to sing to her and when I was done she had the option of continuing to keep the rest of the house awake or going to sleep. Thankfully she chose sleep otherwise I was taking the car keys and going for a sanity drive sans baby.

She is becoming more verbal everyday. She went on a walk today with her uncle and was beginning to get tired so he asked, "Teagen, would you like Uncle to pick you up?" She looked up at him and said: "Okay." Then she was playing with a pair of her pants and I commented to her uncle that they must be the best pair of pants ever to get that kind of attention. She then brings me the pants and says, "Not that good."


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## wamommy

Congrats, Dragon!! I'm so glad your DH is ok with it. :) Phew! 1-2 on an digi?? Wowzers! Is it sinking in yet? I know with me it took a good 2 weeks before I was like, "oh wow... I'm actually pregnant." :haha: Have you told any other family?

Kellen, I'm sorry Teagen was so difficult. :( There must be something in the water, because Max was AWFUL last night. He woke up every 45-60 minutes and wouldn't go back down. Finally at 5am he was apparently up for the day and wouldn't let anyone else sleep. I tried putting him in his crib to send the "it's not time to get up yet!" message, but he just screamed and jumped and woke up the girls... So now we're all downstairs (except for Daddy who is sleeping peacefully...grrrr) and the girls are watching cartoons and I'm wondering how in the heck I'm going to function on ZERO sleep in a month. Sigh...


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## DragonflyWing

Wow, Kellen, that's some great talking from Teagen! Such a smarty! :)

wamommy, I'm sorry you're so tired! That's really a tough situation with Max waking up so much. You're right about something in the water, because Lily was up half the night too! I finally had to take her into my bed, or I would have been standing next to the crib all night long! I try so hard not to make that a habit, but at least I get to wake up to hugs and kisses. She thinks it's the best thing ever when she wakes up right next to me instead of alone in her crib.

I don't think it has sunk in at all yet that I'm pregnant. I don't really feel pregnant...the only real symptom I've had is some nausea. I don't have any breast tenderness, and that was a major symptom last time, even before I got a positive test. Hopefully that's because there's just one baby in there instead of two!


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## SierraJourney

Oh wow---congrats Dragon!! That's exciting!!

Kellen---I can't believe how verbal Teagen is----I'm struggling to even get Camden to babble here---he's just so quiet.. . 

wamommy---maybe your DH will get up with Max when you're up with the new baby? (Or at least he SHOULD!)


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## DragonflyWing

I called my doctor today, and he said I need to stop taking all of my medications. I'm so worried that I'll get depressed again :(


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## wamommy

Dragon, I would ask the Drs to see you as soon as possible to figure out a new medication you can switch to that's safe in pregnancy. Don't let them put you off this time! :ninja:

Sierra, I hope DH picks up some slack when the baby comes. If not, I might lose it! I'm already so tired, lol.

I just came back from my 33 week growth scan. Apparently my baby is enormous. It's estimated at 6lbs1oz already, and is measuring in the 97th percentile. :wacko: My doctor is predicting an over-9lb baby, EVEN if I deliver 2 weeks early like the other 3. I'm freaking out a little, but glad to know everything looks great with the baby. It's fat and cute... :D We didn't see the gender, PHEW!!! I was afraid I'd accidentally spot a giveaway. The sonographer was great and told us when to look away. At least now I feel a little validated in feeling so uncomfortable lately. :haha:

Here's a profile of the little monster. I think he/she is making a kissy-face. :D
 



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## DragonflyWing

Oh how cute! That's a great u/s photo!

I have an appointment with the psychiatrist on the 27th to talk about other medication options. However, on the phone he said I probably shouldn't take anything at all.


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## DragonflyWing

I made my first ultrasound appointment for 4/16. I wanted to get in the week before, but the ultrasound technician is out that whole week. That made me laugh, because the same exact thing happened last time...apparently he schedules his vacations specifically to inconvenience me! :haha:

I'll be just over 8 weeks at that point, so should be able to see the heartbeat. I'm slightly disappointed that I couldn't get in a little sooner, because my mom and dad are visiting from April 9th-15th...and I was hoping to have an ultrasound picture to surprise them with. Oh well! I'll have to think of another fun way to tell them.

How's everyone doing? Any new milestones to report? I need baby/toddler news :D


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## Kellen

Teagen slept for an entire 8.5 hours straight last night, and then took a three hour nap tonight. I believe we have officially transitioned from 2 naps down to one really long nap in the middle of the day. We have had super nice weather so we've been outside all weekend long.

My mom just adopted a puppy on Sunday and Teagen is over the moon. She and the puppy are getting very well acquainted and enjoy swapping toys. Teagen wanted the rope that the puppy had so she trade in a toy car and the puppy acquiesced. 

DH did not get the shipping job as the vessel will be in port for an unspecified amount of time. So I've been putting in as many applications as there are jobs for the both of us for different things. We'll see what the future has in store.

Dragon, I'm glad that you have an u/s scheduled, but I'm sorry you won't be able to surprise your parents with it. Have you gotten the medication aspect sorted out yet?

I learned an important lesson on Friday. If I want to continue waiting to have baby number two in a few years (say, when Teagen is around 3 or 4) I should not allow DH to visit with other parents who have two adorable girls that are close together. Other people's husband's should also not comment that it is good that their ages are so close. LOL. Now DH is trying to convince me that we should start TTC now.

Yesterday we took a small trip about 30 minutes away to the town where my great-grandparents got married in the 1920's. While we were there we decided to eat at a Mexican restaurant. Teagen was sitting in the highchair and I was feeding her applesauce when she starts signing "animal" and pointing to the wall. There were pictures of fruit. We explained fruit, showed her the signs for "pear" and "grapes" and she then proceeded to use our arms to sign grape and would point to the pictures and sign fruit. It was pretty awesome to have a complete conversation about the difference between fruit and animals.


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## wamommy

Dragon, how exciting about the ultrasound! I can't wait to hear how it goes. I wish it were in time to surprise your parents, but ah well. I'm sure they'll still be surprised over the phone/skype! 

Kellen, I'm sorry about your DH's job. :( What a bummer! After all of that training and everything, too. Grrr. Well, hopefully it was meant to be and he's now freed up for the perfect job that is just around the corner.

LOL about your DH wanting to TTC right away. Those girls must have been really adorable! :haha: I have to admit, a small age gap is awesome as they get older, but there's a special relationship between my oldest and Max, too. She's a big helper and loves the role of helper and protector, as opposed to playmate with her sister. I think there are good and bad things about any age spread! 

Max still isn't walking. He stands well as long as he has one hand on something for security, but he hasn't even attempted a step. He just collapses into sitting if I try to encourage it. Sigh. On the plus side, he only woke up twice last night to eat. :) Yes, he was in bed with me, but still! Any progress is good progress.


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## DragonflyWing

That's so neat, Kellen! I wish I had taught the twins some baby signs, it sounds like such a fantastic way for them to communicate. It would probably help Lily be less frustrated...right now, she wants to say everything, but doesn't have the pronunciation yet. So for example, ball, bath, bottle, beans, and bye, all sound like "bah" and she gets SO mad when we don't immediately know what she's saying.

I'm sorry that your husband didn't get that job :( I hope you find something even better!

wamommy, I wouldn't worry about Max not walking yet, I think it's perfectly normal to start anywhere up to 15 months. Lily is not walking yet, either. She cruises just fine, but she absolutely will not take a step on her own. If she accidentally lets go with both hands, she panics and sits down immediately. I don't mind at all, because one walking baby is enough at the moment! Gunnar is walking everywhere, and has started trying to run. We've had a couple of bloody lips and bitten tongues because he gets too much momentum and faceplants. 

Both kids have also been super attached to DH lately. Sometimes, if he's in the room they don't want anything to do with me. That means poor DH often has one baby in his arms and the other clinging to his pant leg! 

I think the pregnancy symptoms are kicking in- I had to get up 4 times to pee last night!


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## helena

Ooh wow dragon, congrats!!! How exciting!! Glad DH is happy too. 
Two years ish is a great age gap (I say so since there was 2yr1 month gap between my boys!). I bet second time around, with just one newborn it will seem like a breeze :) and the twins will be doing so much for themselves by the time baby no3 is here.
Exciting times :)

Oh...unless it's more twins!? Scarey...but oh, Imagine how awesome family photos would be! 

A friend of mine had a baby boy last week, Eric Arthur.


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## helena

Updates for Kiara: 75cm, 22 pounds. Apparently average height slightly over average weight.
She has a few words - dada, tractor and cheese. No mummy....
We have many bumps as she is trying to run. Yesterday was so cute - she kept running off with her brothers favourite soft toy, and was giggling hysterically each time he pretended to be angry and came after her to get it. I love how they play now.

Spaghetti bolognaise is still her favourite food. But cheese is pretty high up there too. In fact she just loves eating. Tonight she ate her dinner (a plain beef burger cut into strips, bread, cucumber, tomato) then had fruit for desert and then once her brothers had got down to play she pointed and had a go at their leftover burger too. I love that. She isn't much fussed with milk, it's all about food. And she adores water at dinner time, straight out of a glass.

She has 10 teeth and two on their way. She sleeps 7-6 at night. Currently sleeping through...yay! 

She is very smiley, but shy too. If strangers smile at her if we are out she will usually try and turn and hide in my neck. I like that, so sweet.
She is also a bit crazy, she was giggling to herself in the car today, patting herself on her face, giggling. 
She has just discovered throwing and making fake "ooh" noises as if to say "oh dear, HOW did that happen!?". She is very playful now, I like that. She makes me laugh.

I think she should get a gold star :)
If only my boys weren't bickering day and night I would be a happy mummy....;)


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks, helena! Oh my gosh, if I had twins again I'd probably pass out! I'm fairly certain it's just one baby this time...partly intuition, but my tests are much lighter this time than with the twins, so it seems like the hcg level points to just one bean. With the twins, the test line on a FRER was darker than the control line at 12dpo. This time it was still quite a bit lighter. I think I'm 14dpo today, and the CB digitals are still saying 1-2 weeks.

I'm actually really looking forward to seeing/feeling all the differences between a twin pregnancy and a singleton! So far I'm feeling great.


I love hearing all about Kiara's progress! She definitely gets a gold star!

The twins love cheese, too. In fact, they have cheddar or mozzarella cheese cubes with almost every meal. Lately, they've also been loving beans and raisins. They don't much like to be fed with a spoon anymore, so they're all about the finger foods. Yesterday's dinner was beans, cheese, banana, peas, and raisins. I'm still trying to get them to drink out of a sippy cup and/or a straw, but for now they also like to drink straight out of a glass (with help).

They have 8 teeth each, and they're both chewing on their fingers a lot...I think their first molars might be on their way. 

Lily has more words than Gunnar...I think she has about 20 words, and he has about 10. Their pronunciation is a work in progress, so a lot of the words sound similar. Gunnar likes to sing, and he often sings a tune along with DH when they're reading books together (it's so dang cute!). They both are suddenly obsessed with peek-a-boo, and are constantly slapping their hands over their eyes and peeking through their fingers to get us to play. Lily figured out how to pretend, and she feeds us pretend food, and hands us pretend trash off the floor. Sometimes we find out that it's not so pretend and she has just eaten something off the floor! :haha: She also pretend sneezes and giggles hysterically when she thinks she's fooled you. :)

Gunnar is even more accident-prone than before now that he can walk/run. Multiple times a day there is a stupendous crash followed by tears. We've gotten so used to it that it's just like "Are you bleeding? Is anything broken? No? Ok, you're fine." A few times he WAS bleeding, which was scary. Once he bit his tongue, and twice he cut his lip. I'm so afraid he's going to knock a tooth out! Most of the time he's ready to play again within a minute, he's not phased at all. On the other hand, if Lily sits down too hard she screams like she's being murdered. The other day, I came running into the bedroom because she was screaming like she was seriously hurt. I was expecting the worse when I came flying in, but she was just mad because her leg was stuck between the crib bars. :haha: Funny how different twins can be!


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## helena

It Is funny how different they all are! They sound lovely. Especially Lilly's giggles. Can you imagine life without them now?? Seems a long time ago I bet!
And it goes to show that babies tend to do one thing at a time - language or physical development. My children have always been the same, really good physically but not talking until a bit after others. I don't think my first said mum until he was nearly two!..
Kiara also isn't keen on eating off a spoon, although she is trying to grab the spoon and do it herself...so so so messy...by the time she has scooped some yogurt and then waves it over her head and then got it to her mouth there isn't much left....and I have delightful splatter effect curtains....doh.
Oh poor Gunnar with his bloody injuries. We have had a few its horrid. She currently has two cuts on her chin where she went to lean on a toy tractor that a boy moved at the last minute..landed on her chin flat on the patio, ouch!

Good luck with the molars. Kiara's gums still look so sore eve though her bottom ones are through, so red and bloody around the bits of tooth. It's got to hurt :(

Sunny day here. Have all three kiddos home (crazy french system of having Wednesdays off school) Heading into the garden for some sandpit play I think. Just overheard son 1 say to son 2 "can you throw this at my head?"... Time to get out of the house I think! Boys are strange creatures..


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## wamommy

LOL Helena. Boys are funny, aren't they? They truly are different than girls. I watch the girls try to play with Max and they are so much more into colorful imaginative play, while their brother likes to smash and yell! I'm sure it will change once he can do more than smash and yell, lol.

I love hearing updates about the babies! It sounds like they are all doing so well. :) They're all so different, even the twins! 

Max is quite the eater, but his favorite foods are still fruits and vegetables. He LOVES grapes and whole strawberries. He also adores peas. He's not a fan of pasta, which is weird because the other babies loved it! Oh, his favorite snack right now is rice cakes. He likes to sit and gnaw on one for an hour until it's a big slobber ball before he devours it. :haha: 

We're still at only 7 teeth here, 4 on top 3 on bottom. No sign of molars. Have you guys taken your LOs to the dentist yet? They say to do it before their 1st birthday, but I've waited until 18 months with all of them so far. It seems they should have molars first? 

Dragon, how are you feeling?


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## DragonflyWing

We haven't brought the twins to the dentist yet, but we're thinking of making an appointment soon. How do you ladies handle teeth brushing? We've been using one of those little brushes that fit over your finger, but since they tend to bite it (ouch!), we're thinking of moving to a child-size toothbrush with flouride-free toothpaste. I'm not sure how to get the babies on board with it. Any suggestions?

As for me, I feel pretty good! No major symptoms other than peeing all night long. :haha: I think the fatigue is starting to kick in, though. I had a hell of a time dragging myself out of bed this morning.

I can't seem to stop testing! The test line is equal to the control line on a FRER as of this morning, but I still keep testing every day.

Lily took her first steps! :happydance: She was so proud of herself :D


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## SierraJourney

I can't believe how many teeth your Lo's have! Camden has FOUR! lol. We use a child size toothbrush and he loves it! We brush, then let him try... he even cries when we take it away because he loves it so much!


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## wamommy

Since Max only has front teeth (only a few, Sierra, don't worry you're not alone!) I use a wash cloth with warm water on it to wipe his teeth a couple times a day. At night as part of our routine I use a baby toothbrush with just water on it and then let Max "brush" his teeth on his own afterward. He loves it too! He kind of just bites it, but I figure it gets him comfortable with it, so meh.

Dragon, hurray for dark lines!! That's so reassuring, huh? Even when a pregnancy is scary or unplanned (points at self) it's still nice to see a dark line so that the possibility of loss goes down. Also congrats on Lily's first steps! Max stood for a second yesterday and then plopped to his butt. That was a big accomplishment for us! :dohh:


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## SierraJourney

Huge change in our lives over here----I've been working from home since Camden was born. Now my boss wants me to come into the office on Mondays and get a babysitter in home for the rest of the week so I'm available to come into the office if needed at a drop of the hat without a baby. I've never wanted Camden to be in daycare, and the cost of an in-home babysitter would be more than 3/4 of my income!

So, we're trying to decide what to do. It's basically impossible to live on DH's income alone--even if we downsized to a small apartment (I have a lot of student loans). So, DH is applying for some other jobs, we're thinking of re-locating to a bigger city or something. . .but still, so financially scary!! 

We're thinking we have about a month before they start making me implement these changes.. . so, DH is frantically trying to apply for jobs and I'm trying to keep up working so we have any kind of extra money while we're in transition. We're also going to try to clean-up and paint some things in our house to get it ready to sell ASAP. It's amazing how kids change your entire world!! I'm hoping DH gets a great job somewhere so I can stay home with Camden and maybe teach some music lessons or something on the side. I'm kind of doubtful it will all happen in that time-frame, but I'm hoping maybe I can ask for an extension at work (without letting them know I'm thinking about quitting!). I was a mess yesterday--tears and hysterics---and today, I'm so busy at work that I've been able to remain somewhat calm. 

Everything is so uncertain right now. :(


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra, I'm so sorry! That's awful that they're springing this on you. There's no way you can renegotiate? Did they say why they're making this change?

I don't know how you manage working from home while taking care of Camden! When I work from home, the twins are a huge distraction even when DH is taking care of them. If I had to watch them while I was working, I'd never get any work done at all. I admire your ability to multi-task!

I just found out that I'll be expected to travel to Atlanta for an important client meeting in October when I'll be 35 weeks pregnant. I'll have to tell my boss about the pregnancy as soon as I have my first ultrasound so they can make other plans, because I'm fairly certain I won't be allowed to travel at that point. With the twins, I wasn't allowed to be farther than 1 hour from my hospital from 24 weeks on. I imagine it will be much farther along this time with just one baby, but I think at 35 weeks even the airlines don't want you to fly. Eek!


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## SierraJourney

Thank you Dragon--and happy 5 weeks to you today! :)

The reason they are making this change is because my co-workers have been grumbling (basically I think they are jealous because I get to work from home--which is understandable--but they are saying untrue things about my work--which the bosses recognize but they just don't want to have to deal with the complaining all of the time). 

Working from home with Camden is hard, but since I've been doing it since he was first born, we have a good little system going. Honestly, I hardly ever leave my office area, except for diaper changes. His playroom IS my office, so he can have fun while I'm working away. It's hard for my co-workers and bosses to see how well this system is working because they aren't here. When in fact, I've been doing almost TWICE the workload now as I did before I had Camden! I tried telling them all of this, but they just think it's easy to "just come in Mondays" and get a sitter for the rest of the time. 

However, I'm super careful on who watches Camden (and he is SO fussy still that I try to make sure it's family that watches him), so it'd be hard to find someone to watch him all of the time, and it would take up most of my wages to pay for a sitter all of that time! 

We really are in such a hard spot. I want to give my bosses an "ultimatum" that if I can't continue working as is, I can't work at all. . . but I want to make sure DH has a better job lined up before I do that, because I'm afraid that they'll just let me go then. :( 

If ya'all know of some good jobs---let me know! ;)

And Dragon---yeah, you definitely can't fly when you are that pregnant---or at least I wouldn't!!!


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## wamommy

How frustrating, Sierra! It must be scary, too. I don't think people (employers) realize how much child care actually costs, and how just "getting a sitter" is NOT a practical option on a daily basis. Hopefully they can see what a valuable employee you are!! In the mean time, hopefully your DH can find a job that takes some of the pressure off of you financially. Ugh. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. It seemed to have been working so well!

Dragon, I definitely wouldn't fly at 35 weeks. I'm supposed to go meet with my Mom for lunch on Sunday at 34.5 weeks and DH doesn't even want me to do that, since the restaurant is 30 minutes from the hospital! :haha: I think the technical airline deadline is 36 weeks, but better safe than sorry! Boy, I can't imagine going into labor on an airplane. :sick:


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## DragonflyWing

I just read that if you've had fraternal twins, your chance of having a second set is about 1 in 7. :shock:

I slipped and accidentally told someone at work about the pregnancy. She works in a different department, and I asked her not to mention it to anyone, but I'm kicking myself for being so careless. I'm hoping to wait until after the first ultrasound to break the news to everyone. The first time around, I told people early, and loved talking about it to everyone. This time I kind of want to keep it to myself, and I don't really want all the attention.

She was telling me that her roommate is 2 months pregnant and feeling really sick, and without even thinking, I said "Oh, that sucks. I felt like that last time, but luckily this time I'm feeling fine- oh, um, I mean...shit." :wacko:


Here's my limerick for the day...

Our twins were born in December,
A joyous event, you'll remember,
God said "I know it will be tough,
But two isn't enough!"
So #3 will arrive in November! 

:headspin:


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## Kellen

Sierra - That stinks big time! I wish people would try, just for a few moments, to view your world rather than their own. I completely understand about tight finances.

Our dentist says not to worry about teeth check ups until Teagen is 2.5 or so. He said by that time all her teeth should be in and she'll sort of be able to sit stillish. For now we have a baby electric toothbrush (Teagen is obsessed with our sonic ones) that we use twice a day. We have floride free toothpaste for her. The rest of the time she walks around with a small toothbrush and brushes by herself.

I have applied for three different part-time jobs in my local area. One is to be a peer breastfeeding counselor for WIC. I am pretty excited about it. The other is to be a driver's education instructor for the local community college. And the final one is to be the Director of Emergency Management for a neighboring county. It is part-time with the caveat that if whomever is hired pulls in enough grant money it would go up to full-time. I am overly qualified and kind of excited about getting back into a career, which I thought would never happen. But they only want the person to work two days a week right now and my mom has volunteered to be with Teagen.

Teagen had her first time out yesterday. My mom, grandma and new puppy invited us to go on a walk so I tried to put Teagen in the stroller and she absolutely refused. Okay, no problem, you can walk and hold my hand. She ripped her hand out of mine and started to rush towards the road. So I calmly picked up my shrieking child, brought her to the house, sat her in the chair and explained that she was going to sit there until she apologized. After five minutes of crying and whining she finally signed "sorry" and gave me a hug. Hardest five minutes of my life!


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## wamommy

Ahhh... time outs. I put my girls in time outs and they worked wonderfully for a long time! One day my oldest was threatened with a time out (at about 3 years old), looked me square in the eye and said, "I LIKE time outs now. I'm going to go play in time out." and she went and sat on her "time out rug" smiling away! So much for that, lol. Now we just take privileges away.

Good luck with the job, Kellen! I would absolutely LOVE to work out of the house for a couple days a week. I miss working! I think it will be a while for me, though.

I've been having some scary pains the last few days. I almost went in to the hospital to get checked out last night, but decided to wait it out instead. Maybe I'd just forgotten how uncomfortable these last few weeks are?? DH thinks I won't make it past 36/37 weeks, but we thought that last time and Max was born only 10 days before my due date! If I had to guess I'd say April 16th will be the big day. I guess we'll see!


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, how are you feeling other than the pains? I can't wait to find out if it's a girl or boy! You haven't posted any bump pics in a long time. hint hint! :D

I'm still feeling great, no morning sickness yet aside from those couple of days right after I found out. So far all of my symptoms are so mild...I hope it stays like this! It must be true what they say about your uterus growing faster in your second pregnancy. I already have to be careful not to stand up too quickly, or I get those stabbing round ligament pains. 

In other good news, even though I stopped most of my medication (I'm still tapering off one of them), emotionally I feel really positive. I haven't had any depression symptoms at all. I was in a bad mood briefly yesterday, but that was because DH left the twins and me in the car for 2 hours while he ran into the hardware store for "just a minute." :growlmad: Apparently searching for plumbing fittings sucks you into the Bermuda triangle. He couldn't understand why I was annoyed, either. :wacko:

By the time we got home, both babies had completely soaked themselves and their carseats with pee (we were on our way home from a play date when DH took a detour to the store, so it had been several hours since they were changed), and I was so hungry that I was cranky to the extreme. When we got home, DH says "Ok, you take care of the kids and I'm going to fix these little clips on the sun visors in the van." -_- Are you kidding me? So I had to bathe both pee-soaked kids and get them redressed, then clean out the carseats before I could get something to eat. Needless to say, I was in a nasty mood for a while. Sometimes men can be completely oblivious. He had no idea why I was upset, and didn't think he had done wrong anything at all. :haha:

How is everyone else doing?


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> wamommy, how are you feeling other than the pains? I can't wait to find out if it's a girl or boy! You haven't posted any bump pics in a long time. hint hint! :D

Ask and you shall receive! I had DH take one today to compare with Max's pregnancy. (both pics are around 34.5 weeks)

Pic #1 is Max (black shirt)
Pic #2 is Mystery Baby (purple shirt) :)

I think I'm smaller this time! So weird.
 



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## DragonflyWing

I think you're right about being smaller this time. Maybe it's a girl? You look fantastic! :)


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## Kellen

Men are indeed strange creatures that apparently don't understand how their really slow actions impact the lives around them. For example: DH, Teagen and I went to Wal Mart today to get mousetraps. DH proceeded to meander over to the sporting goods and took a whopping 30 minutes to look at canteens and rucksacks. He then tells me that I need to be patient because he lets me browse things all the time and never makes a fuss. What?! I'm sorry, but our child is hopping up and down in the basket and squawking because she is bored. And when was the last time I actually bought myself anything? Um... before Teagen was born while DH has gotten a 3 new pairs of pants, new work boots, new gloves, a new seat for his motorcycle, etc. I love the man, but Dragon, I completely understand your frustration.

And yes, we have a mouse in our house and it is driving me nuts. It keeps Teagen and I up at night which means I'm cranky and she doesn't want to sleep or even nap. We finally got traps today and will be putting them out tonight. I have vacuumed and scrubbed the house from top to bottom as mice make me feel dirty.


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## DragonflyWing

I had my first prenatal appointment this afternoon. I saw a midwife, and she took my medical history, and did a basic exam. Had a pap test done and some bloodwork, and they took a urine sample. 

I asked when I would have an ultrasound to check for twins, and she said 20 weeks!! My jaw must have dropped to the floor and my heart sank. I told her that with my last pregnancy my doctor had offered a scan at 8 weeks, and that I would just about die from anticipation if I had to wait until 20 weeks to find out. She said we could tell a little white lie and say that I'm not sure of my dates, so I can get a dating scan in 2 weeks. *HUGE sigh of relief*

So I have my first ultrasound on April 8th! :happydance:

I can't even imagine having to wait until 20 weeks to have my first ultrasound. I would be on pins and needles the whole time wondering if something was wrong. I am so spoiled from my last pregnancy, when I got to see the babies every 2 weeks!


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## wamommy

Kellen, I totally understand the clueless man syndrome that most DHs tend to struggle with. I don't even bother trying to look at anything for myself in the store, because DH will sigh, then get irritated, then let the kids run CRAZILY around until I say, "ok, forget it... I don't need to look." He then has the nerve to tell ME "Go take the kids somewhere else so I can look at X,Y or Z." :wacko: He's in for a pretty big surprise the night I'm in the hospital and he has to actually take them all for a full night!! :haha:

Eew... mice. We don't have them, but a starling flew into our attic through a tiny hole in the top of the house and made a nest there. I hear scritching and scratching of the birds making a home up there and it's so gross! There's too much insulation for us to go up there and clean it out, so every season we have to deal with this. At some point you can actually hear the squeeking of new baby birds! So yucky. I can only imagine how gross it is up there.

Dragon, I'm glad they aren't making you wait! I've learned to always tell them I'm confused about dates to make sure I get that early ultrasound, lol. In your case it seems like it should be standard, especially with a 1 in 7 chance of twins again! 

Max still isn't walking. :( I've kind of accepted that he's just not that into it. He doesn't even want to TRY. It's shocking, since my girls walked so early, but I suppose each baby is different. Hopefully he'll get with the program before summer so he can enjoy the park! For now he just stand there holding on to something watching the girls play. :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Wow, it's been quiet lately! I've been thinking of all of you ladies and thought I'd see how everyone is?

wamommy--Camden isn't walking yet, either. . .so we're in this together! ;) I don't mind, but people's comments are kind of annoying when they see me carrying him all of the time. ;) He'll get there, I know. And so will Max!

How's the pregnancy? It's getting so close!! I'm so very excited for you! 

Dragon, how's your pregnancy going?

I think DH has decided that we'll start trying for another lo once we have my job situation figured out. I'm hoping everything works out because then Camden will have a sibling! ;) Right now, we're trying to decide between me going part time and getting a slightly cheaper home, or me quitting completely and us getting a *very* small home that would fit an extremely tight budget. . . Both options will be hard, but I think that will be best for our family. Hopefully we can decide soon. 

Kellen, Helena? how are you?


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## DragonflyWing

I noticed it's been really quiet, too! 

That's exciting that you're thinking of TTC again in the not to distant future! I hope everything works out the way you want with your work situation. Camden has plenty of time to learn to walk! I say enjoy the limited mobility while you still can! I can't keep Gunnar in one spot for three seconds before he's running away at full speed. It's nice that Lily still prefers to crawl and/or cruise.

The pregnancy is going fine- symptoms are still at a minimum. No nausea at all yet! A bit fatigued, but if I make sure to get enough sleep it's not so bad. My first scan is a week from today :D


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Dragon! I'm so glad to hear the pregnancy is going so well---yay!! Can't wait for your scan!!!


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## wamommy

I've noticed that it's been quiet, too! I figured everyone was just really busy lately. 

Sierra, how exciting that you guys want to ttc soon! I hope the job situation works itself out so that you can concentrate on more fun (and less stressful) things!

Dragon, I'm glad to hear you're feeling well so far. After having twins, this pregnancy will probably be a breeze for you! 

As for me, I'm getting SUPER nervous about the birth of this baby. I literally lie awake in bed panicking about it almost every night. Not only am I worried about the actual birth, but also how I will handle ANOTHER baby, when Max is still a baby! I had an OB appointment today and all looks great. The non stress test was actually pretty relaxing, and the OB said that it was "textbook perfect," so that's a relief! It looks like about 2 more weeks and we'll meet the newest member of our family!


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy---I'd be worried, too---I think that is understandable in your situation! I hope this baby is a breeze (and labor!) and all of your fears are eased! I'm sure you'll handle it a lot better than you think---and I always believe things happen for a reason in perfect timing. . .so I believe it will work out. 

Thanks so much for your guys' support. I really hope things work out soon and we can start ttc. It sounds perfect to me.. . if we can just work. it. out. Here's to hoping!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm having some light bleeding and cramping...waiting for a call back from the doctor's office. They're trying to fit me in for an u/s today. Keep your fingers crossed for me, ladies.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon!! How scary!! Fingers are crossed and good wishes your way! Please keep us updated! :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks, my scan is in about an hour. I will update when I have more info.


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## wamommy

:hugs: Dragon! I'm so sorry. I'm glad they're able to see you today. I hope all is well!! Keep us posted. :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Baby is ok! I saw the heartbeat and it's measuring 6w2d. I'm waiting to see the doctor to get more in depth info, but I saw a large ovarian cyst on the ultrasound, so that might be what's causing the pain and spotting. I got a little photo of the bean, I will post it later.


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## wamommy

Oh, thank goodness!!!!! And there's just one in there? Phew!! What a relief. I 'm sorry about the cyst, but all things considered, yay! I had bleeding on and off with Max from 5-7 weeks, and I remember freaking out. I'm so glad you got some reassurance. :happydance:


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon!! that's great news!! So happy for you!!!! Can't wait to see the photo!


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## DragonflyWing

Haha, yes just one, thank goodness! The cyst isn't as big as it looked on the screen, only a little over an inch. The doctor said it's probably a corpus luteum cyst and will resolve itself. :happydance:


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## Kellen

Oh, Dragon, I'm glad that they were able to see you immediately. And you got to see your little one! I am looking forward to pictures.

Things have been a bit crazy here, hence the silence. We have both been applying to jobs like crazy, but so far don't have any bites. Sierra, I hope your DH is able to find another job and resolve your work situation. My DH wants to start TTC again, but I'm not quite ready. I want Teagen to be a little bit older so that she can help me with the baby and at least play by herself while baby and I take a few naps.

My mom goes in for hip surgery on Monday which means I'll be looking after Teagen, DH, the puppy and my dad for a while. Life is never dull!


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## DragonflyWing

Well, here's the little tadpole. He/she is only 5.5mm long, and hiding behind the yolk sac, so all we could get was a blurry picture of a little blob. I did see the little flickering heartbeat, though! It was 145bpm.

I guess seeing the baby convinced my body that I'm actually pregnant and should have some symptoms...woke up this morning and immediately vomited. :sick:
 



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## SierraJourney

Lovely photo Dragon! Sorry about the morning sickness, but it's a good sign! :)

Thanks Kellen--I hope you and/or your DH find jobs soon! It's so discouraging! I can understand wanting Teagen to be a bit older. Both of my sisters and I are 3 years apart, which worked out great for our family. DH and his brother are about a year apart, so he wants to have kids close together---I think if we TTC soon would be nice for us. . .but it all depends on the work situation. . .


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## wamommy

I'm so glad you got to see the heart beat, Dragon!! Isn't that the best feeling? It's real, isn't it? :happydance:

Kellen, I hope your Mom's surgery goes well and that you survive being the caretaker. Good luck on the job hunt, too! 

I got a phone call from my OB's nurse that my platelet count is extremely low. :( Like... extremely. This means my blood won't clot well, and I won't be allowed to have an epidural (not that I ever have anyway) and if I need a c-section I have to be under general anesthetic. :( I'm already kind of freaked out about labor looming in a week or two, and now I'm concerned about the risk of hemorrhage! They'll test it again on Tuesday at my next appointment, and the OB will apparently discuss it with me further. Sigh...

How is everyone else doing?


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## helena

Just sayin a quick hi!! Have been quiet lately but haven't forgotten you all.
Glad bean is good Dragon. Will read more and update you all soon.
Lots of love from France xxxx
Ps. Omg wamommy you are almost full term!!! That's so fast!! So excited! Xx


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## wamommy

helena said:


> Ps. Omg wamommy you are almost full term!!! That's so fast!! So excited! Xx

I know!! I can't believe it. I just came back from my OB appointment and I'm 5 cm dilated!! eeep! It looks like baby could be here any minute. :dohh: I doubt I'll make it to next week's appointment, but you never know!

Dragon, how are you feeling?

Kellen, how's the job hunt going?

Sierra, any news about work?

Helena, glad you checked in! How's life? How's your Mom?

I joined an April due dates club on here a while ago and I check in there sometimes, but it just isn't the same as our Valentine's Ladies group. You guys are unique and wonderful and I have appreciated having all of you in my life this past 2 years! I feel lucky to know you. :)


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## helena

I am delighted to have known you all too. It's great :)
Feels a bit like the valentines family is having a new baby :) (or am I just trying to muscle in on some of your wonderful exciting time! Am truely excited xxx
5cm already, oooh! Brilliant!

My mum is doing ok thanks. The cancer is slowly growing but right now she seems ok. The steroids they have put her on are really helping give her a boost and she is eating better and getting about more. Am so glad its spring and she can walk about her garden. I go back to see her at Easter weekend.

Just had to break off and go and remove Kiara from playing with the toilet. She is obsessed with it and thinks its great fun to try and dip her hands in. Yucky little girl.

Found out last week my eldest is colourblind, I had no idea! A few times he had got things wrong but not enough for me to think it was more than just a mistake. We need to find out how much it affects him, but our paediatrician did some little tests and he got quite a few wrong or just couldn't see some colours when contrasted against another. It's so weird to think his world looks different to mine. Apparently it was passed down from my mums dad, through mum and me (we see colours just fine) to my son. 

Beautiful weather here at the mo. Bought Kiara a push along trike the other week (she rides I push), she loves it!


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## DragonflyWing

Wow, wamommy, 5cm already! That's awesome! How are you feeling?

I also love our little Valentines group! :D

I'm feeling pretty nauseated today...I seem to be throwing up every morning now, and if I'm not careful to eat regulary, I feel sick all day. It's not nearly as bad as it was with the twins, though! Still spotting some, but not bright red, so I'm not worried. 

My parents are coming to visit, arriving today and leaving on the 15th...so I have the next 5 days off from work! DH and I are going to have a mini-getaway this weekend, and my parents are going to watch the kids. I'm really looking forward to it!

helena, that's too funny about Kiara trying to dip her hands in the toilet! I can't let the twins in the bathroom at all, because they immediately run to the toilet and flush it a billion times, and/or open it to try to climb in. We also can't have any beverages around them, because their new favorite thing is to grab and dump every cup they see. Lily dumped a cup of ice water down my shirt on Monday...that was bracing! DH left a glass of mik next to his chair this morning, and right before I left for work, it was spilled all over the floor. *sigh* those naughty little monkeys.


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## Kellen

Hello All!

Life sounds hectic for us all.

Wamommy - How exciting! If we don't hear from you we'll just assume you're off having a baby and taking pictures so we can all enjoy your little team yellow surprise.

Helena - I'm glad you are able to go see your mom and that the steroids are helping. Sorry to hear that the cancer is growing. It is good that Kiara gets to have this special time to know your mom.

Dragon - Ugh, nausea. At least you know your bean is doing good even with the spotting. That mini-vacation sounds like a dream. So glad you get some time off just to be you.

The job search is going. DH has a part-time job grooming. Not what he wanted to go back to, but at least it gives us a tiny bit of income. Living off our savings was not what we wanted to do. Next week we are going to Portland to personally visit some of the companies that DH has applied to.

Mom came through her surgery just find. She is tired and a little sore, but nothing like after the knee surgeries. At least she is able to get in and out of bed by herself and interact with Teagen.

The weather here has been absolutely beautiful! It was almost 80 yesterday so we played outside all day. Teagen has a water table that she and the dog enjoy playing in. Since we don't have any near neighbors I just let her run around in the buff, which she certainly enjoys.

As for the toilet she would play in it too... along with the puppy. Since my mom is semi-laid up I'm basically in charge of two teething toddlers, but one has a much stronger bite and 5lb on the human kiddo.


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## DragonflyWing

Now that the weather is getting nicer, I'm looking forward to playing outside at the park with the twins. I have a question, though...how do you keep them from eating stuff off the ground? My kids will eat any little thing they find, so I can just picture them eating grass, dirt, bugs, goose poop, etc.


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## Kellen

Teagen frequently eats grass and dirt, but she isn't too fond of things that move. Right now she enjoys picking up rocks and letting them tumble through her fingers. Every once in a while she'll see if she can't sneak one into her mouth, but other than that I just let her go for it.

Before this week I was pretty much the only one that could get Teagen to sleep at night. However, for the past three nights she has cried for her Daddy to come pat her back until she passes out. I am enjoying it, but he isn't so great at the sneak away. LOL. So far he has gotten her to sleep twice, but she has caught him trying to leave.


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm glad the steroids are helping your Mom feel a bit better. :) The nice weather certainly doesn't hurt, either! How interesting that your DS is colorblind, too. I sometimes think DH is a bit colorblind. He'll often call something grey that to me is obviously green, or he can't differentiate between subtle shade differences. I'm glad you caught it early so that he's aware of it!

Dragon, are your parents super excited about the newest LO? What is your due date, btw?

Kellen, lucky Teagen enjoying the hot weather! It's still a bit cool up here. We had 1 60 degree day last week and took the girls to the park. I can't WAIT for summer. There are just so many more options of things to do with LOs!

I'm actually sitting here pretty pissed off, lol. Beware, I feel the need to vent. It's 4:45 in the morning and I haven't gone to bed yet. Max is on day 2 of an awful cough/cold that keeps him up all night. DD#2 just got over the same bug. She coughs so hard that she throws up, so I've been cleaning up vomit for the past week or so... and now I'm on night #2 staying up ALL NIGHT with Max because he can't sleep. DH, however, is sleeping soundly upstairs. I just don't see how it's fair that at 37 weeks pregnant I am getting 2-3 hours of sleep a night and still expected to cook, clean, and keep up with the kids. If I bring it up to DH he just spaces out and doesn't respond to me... or he picks a fight so that I feel like it isn't even worth it to ask for what I need. He's been playing more and more computer games to "relax," and if the kids or I interrupt him he loses his temper and yells at everyone. I'm just feeling very alone and panicked about this new baby when I can't barely handle the ones we have! I wish I had a more involved partner. :(

Ok, vent over. Maybe I'll make a cup of tea and watch the early news. No sign of labor here, btw! I remember this limbo stage with Max where I felt like I'd have him literally any second for a week!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy---that makes me so MAD! I'm sorry, but your DH is just awful sometimes! There is NO WAY you should be doing all you are doing while you are so far pregnant--with no help!! Having children means less "relax" time for BOTH partners and he needs to get over that and start pulling his weight around! Argh! I don't know how to help, but I'm ticked off right with you! 

Work situation is much the same right now for me---still trying to figure out what to do. We figured out our finances and there is just no way we can make it on one income. So now we are thinking about trying to ask my bosses to allow me to work part-time--which would still make us move to a smaller house but we are okay with that. So, right now we are just trying to buy time while we look for a home and get ours ready to sell before I ask for part-time work (this is a huge deal as my bosses usually don't let people go part time. . .but it's my only hope right now!) Still keeping my fingers crossed!

As for toilets, Camden LOVES the toilet. . .if he's ever really quiet, we know where he's at! Argh!! 

As far as dirt and such, we've only had a couple of nice days so far, and have allowed Camden to crawl around outside (still no walking here!)---he hasn't tried to eat anything outside yet, but I feel it's only a matter of time! ;)

Helena, so glad that the steroids are helping your mom! 

Dragon--your mini vacation sounds nice! Good for you!

Kellen--I hope you guys find some jobs soon. . .that's so hard, I know!! Keep your chin up!

Does anyone have a bike seat for your lo? We are currently researching them as we really want to go bicycling soon. Any suggestions? We want the kind that hooks on the back of the bike--not the pull behind ones.. Yay spring!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - If you ever need a place to run away to, let me know. And if you need help just let me know. We are honestly not all that far from you and I'd be glad to help if possible. I think you need to whack your DH with a cast iron skillet.

Sierra - I am waiting for my motorcycle to sell so I can outfit myself with a really nice trail bike and then equip it with this awesome seat! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H4E7E...UTF8&colid=1SBJOUCOWQ3JW&coliid=IG9AO9D8JIA29 I has the same safety ratings as a carseat. Also I would enjoy being able to see what Teagen is doing rather than have her try to look around me.


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## SierraJourney

Lovely Kellen! My DH refuses to get one in front, so we have to go for the rear seat. ..ha! Aww well!


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## SierraJourney

wamommy, any baby yet?!


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## wamommy

No! Grrr... I'm actually a grouchy, uncomfortable mess! I have an OB appointment tomorrow (which I did NOT think I would make it to) and I'll know more about where I am then. I feel like it could literally be any minute! Max and my DH are both sick (DH is the bigger baby) so perhaps a few days more would be a good thing to make sure everyone is well when the baby comes... sigh.

How is everyone else doing?


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## SierraJourney

Aww wamommy--I'm sorry! I remember what that is like---you are soooo entitled to be grouchy! ;) Hopefully everyone gets well before baby arrives--hopefully that'll make it at least a bit easier on you!

I'm much the same. . still worried about my job/life/house/everything. lol I'm praying it all comes together here shortly. . .

Had MIL here today to watch Camden while I attended meetings. . . he wasn't too happy, but it worked out. Somehow she managed to put a dirty diaper BACK on him. . .not really sure how that worked. . .I know cloth diapering is a bit different, but I figured you'd know not to put a soiled wet diaper back on a baby?! lol He survived, so no big deal. . .but I'm kind of scratching my head.

Anyone else with period issues? I have literally (no joke!) THREE full periods a month! I have only a few days a month when I'm not on it! I'm going crazy! I'm trying to get into my doctor, but not sure if it is my breastfeeding (still doing this a couple times a day) or if it's the mini-pill? Whatever it is, I need it to stop. . .I'm so tired of cramping and hormones and everything! Argh!

(Nothing compared to being pregnant, wamommy, but thought I'd complain too! ;)


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Poor you. Won't it be nice to be in the hospital all alone with a new baby and nurses waiting on you? LOL. Glad you find out tomorrow what the game plan will be.

Sierra - We still BF many, many times a day, but my period is back to the good old 25 day cycle. The only thing I'm not fond of is when Teagen nurses it makes my cramps worse. But compared to you I have nothing to complain about. Ick.

DH is still job hunting here too, and me to a lesser extent. We plan to go up to Portland for two days at the end of the week so he can ask for some face-to-face interview with shipping HR people. We have a list of companies and their addresses. Most he has already applied to, but a friend said that the companies basically only hire if you walk in prepared to walk out and go directly to a boat. I am hoping to drive home alone (with Teagen of course) on Saturday.

We have meat rabbits now. DH and my dad took a class on how to breed, raise and slaughter meat rabbits. There is a huge market here locally so hopefully this will be a nice little money maker on the side. I informed DH that I will have no part of slaughtering the rabbits and Teagen will be kept away from them at that time. 

DH and my dad also added an extension to our chicken coop so we can add three more hens and a rooster. Some friends of our raise exotic chickens and have some pullets (babies) that they want to sell at a discounted rate. 

We have more teeth coming in here and Teagen has been really grumpy. They are SO close, but they seem to be moving up and down. One day they will almost be through the gums and then the next day they will be back up.

Tonight I get to dye DH's hair. Poor man is quite vain. For his interviews on Thur/Fri he wants to look a bit younger and less grey. I like his salt and pepper, but he wants it to be darker. We will leave a bit on the sides, but his eyebrows and top and back of his hair will get the dye job. Men...


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## DragonflyWing

Hey all, sorry I was missing for a few days. My parents are leaving this afternoon, and I'm back to work now. The visit went very well, and it was nice to have a few days off to relax. I wish I had a few more days though ;)

The nausea comes and goes, and isn't nearly as severe or constant as it was with the twins. I'm really struggling with fatigue, though. I go to bed early, but I still need a long nap in the middle of the day, or I'm just completely wrecked. Since I can't always fit in a nap, some days I'm so tired that I can hardly think. Hoping that will pass soon! 

wamommy, I thought for sure I'd come back and you'd have big baby news! Sorry your DH is being a butt...I wish he'd help more! 

Kellen- that's pretty neat about the rabbits and chickens. My sister in law recently got a few chickens and she occasionally gives us some eggs. Fresh free range eggs taste so much better than store bought!

Sierra- That's strange that she'd put a dirty diaper back on! Not sure how someone could overlook that lol. That's awful that you've been getting 3 periods a month! I hope the doctor can figure out what's causing it...I have heard that the mini-pill can cause a lot of breakthrough bleeding, so maybe that's it?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Dragon--I was wondering that too, except that it's always a week long normal-seeming period. . .maybe that is considered break-through bleeding? But it has to stop. . .it's driving me crazy and I feel it can't be good to lose that much blood every month! I remember being so tired when I was pregnant---I'm sorry! I hope you can at least get some naps here and there!

Kellen--Glad I'm not the only one still bfing. . .my family thinks I'm crazy still bfing (all of them stopped nursing way before lo was this age, so it seems strange to them). I'm aiming for 2 years old before we stop. I love all of the little farm-y things you do! DH and I plan on getting a mini-farm some day and raising chickens, pigs, and maybe a few beef cows. (I did all of this growing up, so hopefully it won't be too bad getting back into it!)

wamommy, how'd the appointment go? :hugs:


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## wamommy

Still pregnant here! :dohh: I had my OB and nst appointment today and it went pretty well. The baby was SO active during the non-stress test that I had to stay monitored for a whole hour to make sure baby was ok. The heart rate, which is usually between 120-140, spiked and stayed around 180 for an hour! Baby was rolling around wildly. I think it wants out, too. I saw my OB next and I'm still 5cm dilated, 50% effaced... EXACTLY the same as a week ago. How is that even possible? With all of the pain and BH I've had this week I thought for SURE I'd have progressed. :( She thinks the baby is facing my tummy instead of my back, and once it does the final turn I'll go into rapid labor. We'll see. I didn't expect to make it to this week's appointment, and if I make it to the next one I might lose my mind!!!

Kellen, your house sounds like such a fun place to be a kid! I am jealous. :) Good luck in Portland. I hope they perfect job presents itself!

Sierra, I had funky periods on the mini pill too, but the other direction. I had way longer cycles and super light periods. I think progesterone only pills just confuse your body sometimes. :shrug: I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a hard time with it, though! 3 periods a month does NOT sound fun.

Dragon, I'm glad you had a good visit with your parents. I'm sorry to hear about the nausea and fatigue, though. :hugs: Hopefully it will get better in second tri! 

Today is DH's birthday, so he wants me to go do jumping jacks to coax this baby out so that they share a birthday. To be honest, after a giant birthday meal and a long day of activities I don't think I want the baby out tonight! He/she can wait until tomorrow. I like even numbers better anyhow... :haha:


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## Kellen

Wamommy - That is disappointing! I can't believe that you haven't progressed at all! I hope you had a little alone time and were able to semi-relax during your NST. Teagen never did turn around for me, I hope your LO does a quick turn around for you tomorrow and you have a fast and easy labor.

Sierra - I grew up on farms and ranches so I am thoroughly enjoying Teagen being able to play outside and get to interact with all the animals. Today my dad was walking about getting a couple of steers this summer and letting them have the back two acres to keep the grass down and then putting them in the freezer this winter.

My MIL thinks I'm pretty much insane for BFing a baby with TEETH! She called the other day and asked what we were doing. Well, at the time DH was building rabbit enclosures and Teagen was playing with rocks. When she saw me sit down she signed "milk please" and asked to get in my lap. So I blithely informed MIL that Teagen was nursing. Her response was: "Doesn't she get enough REAL food?" A) Thank you for the insult, B) she eats three square meals, plus snack, plus nursing and C) No, she isn't overweight. Poor tike only weighs 23lb and is 34". It is difficult to find clothes that are tall and skinny.

Dragon - I am glad you were able to rest a little bit. I don't miss the constantly tiredness of being pregnant. Teagen LOVES fresh eggs and practically refuses to eat eggs whenever we go out for breakfast. It is nice to be able to go out and know exactly where your food is coming from.

Today Teagen helped my mom plant lettuce, peppermint and stevia. We already have blossoms on our blueberry bushes and strawberry plant. We have some crazy volunteer potato plants. I guess I didn't get all the potatoes from last years crop and now we have a bunch sprouting up. Next week DH (if he isn't on a ship! Thanks for the prayers, btw) and my dad will be renting a self-propelled rototiller and plow up the secondary barn paddock that is currently not in use. Then we will be planting: beats, kale, peas, tomatoes, cucumbers, melons and other things that I don't remember right now.

Teagen has a weird red rash on her left cheek. It is sort of raised and feels a bit chapped. I am wondering if it is something she ate, if she fell, or if she has had too much sun exposure or something entirely different.


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## DragonflyWing

Arrrggghhh...I am so mad and upset! Our financial problems just keep piling up. 

Last month, I received a collection notice from the ob/gyn that delivered the twins, saying our account was delinquent. However, I had a payment plan set up with them, and they had been auto-debiting my account every month, never a missed payment. So we sent them and the collection agency a letter explaining this, thinking it must be an error (meanwhile, they cancelled our auto-debit, but they're still cashing our checks every month). A week or two later, we received a summons in the mail...they're taking us to small claims court!! Now we have to get a lawyer, which could end up costing more than the claim is worth...and if they win and get a judgment against us, it will ruin our credit and have a significant negative impact on my husband's business. They also only gave us 3 weeks notice to get a lawyer and build our case before the court date. SO stressful.

As if that weren't bad enough, I found out that the echocardiogram that Gunnar had last month is going to cost us over $2000 out of pocket. We mentioned at a doctor's visit that once in a while Gunnar's lips turn blue for a few minutes, with no other symptoms...the doctor was concerned and told us that we needed to get an echocardiogram to make sure nothing was wrong. He had one the next day, and everything was perfectly fine. However, they billed over $5000 to insurance for it! A simple ultrasound, I have no idea how it could be so expensive.

We have a flexible spending account that we were counting on for all the pregnancy expenses...but now we'll have to use it for this bill. That means that we'll have another $5000+ to pay by the time the baby is born. 

I really can't handle money stress, it makes me feel panicked, desperate, and trapped...you can't get away from it and you can't control it, and I always feel like it's my fault, that I'm handling our finances poorly and ruining everything. I don't even know what to do. DH is so stressed that he can't sleep and has a constant headache, and I don't know what to do about that either.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Dragon, I am so sorry to hear about your financial struggles. I know how disheartening and terrifying that can be. I'm thoroughly convinced that money is evil. . . it's just a shame we can't live without it. I really admire the old way of living off of the land. . .seemed so much more simple (albeit hard). .. :hugs:

Kellen---the comments on breastfeeding after 1 yr old drives me CRAZY! Research shows it's good for them, yet I feel like people tend to judge about it. . .As with everything about raising a child, people need to let others raise their kids how they see fit. . .

Well, I finally got an answer on my crazy periods. . .they really think it's the combination of mini pill and breastfeeding. . so they are switching me to regular birth control which is apparently safe at this point, but may decrease my milk supply a bit. She said it shouldnt' be too drastic, so hopefully I'll be able to keep up our nursing schedule.. . but right now I am very thankful for the hopefully soon relief of constant AF! I feel like my whole body is suffering because of the hormones/blood loss/etc. Hopefully getting back on track!

I found out yesterday that I have TWO weeks before they make me go back to work on Mondays (I still will get to work from home the rest of the week). But, I'm panicking. I really don't want Camden in daycare and can't find help for him at home. I know it's not the end of the world, but it breaks my heart that I have to have someone else watching him on Mondays. . .and with as clingy and high-maintenance as he is, I'm sure he's going to have a hard time too. :( I'm so sad. At this point, we're still thinking about moving/getting DH a different job, but with only two weeks, it looks like we'll have to do that arrangement for a while in order to give us time to figure things out. .. :(

Any baby news wamommy? I hope you're doing okay!!! :hugs:


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so sorry about your financial stresses. :hugs: We're going through some very similar stuff, and it makes for a very tense household sometimes! I agree with Sierra that I wish we didn't need money... it seems like everything we do and everywhere we go someone has an "angle" to make a buck off of each other. It's exhausting. I really hope you get some relief soon!

Sierra, yay for figuring out your periods! Hopefully you'll start to feel better.

Kellen, if I could breast feed I WOULD, as long as baby and I wanted. I think it's amazing that you guys have stuck with it.

No baby news here, unfortunately! I am SO dang uncomfortable, and I feel like labor could literally be any minute. Sunday will mark the most pregnant I have ever been. I'll be shocked if I go to 39 or 40 weeks!! I suppose I've been spoiled and perhaps my luck has run out. In the mean time I am grumpy and feel like an invalid. Last night I broke down and started to cry to DH telling him how lonely I feel because whenever I talk about what I'm going through he changes the subject or ignores me. :( He had the nerve to get ANGRY with me, and say that my complaining this pregnancy has driven him crazy and that he's been building resentment this whole pregnancy that has made him withdraw. Do you know what his terrible resentment is from? I don't dtd with him enough... seriously. I'm 9 months pregnant, can barely walk, yet stay up all night with YOUR children and mop YOUR floors and clean YOUR toilets and you somehow have the right to resent ME for not dtd?? I didn't want to fight, since the kids had just gone to bed and I hate when they hear us fight anyway, so I just went quiet and filed it all away under reasons 498 and 499 why I can't stand being married to him... lol. Sorry... You guys are probably SO sick of hearing about my DH! I just honestly have no one else to complain to. Sigh... He's apologize today, but that's the same pattern we've had for years. Corner me, yell at me, make me feel trapped and horrible until I wiggle my way out of the argument, then apologize the next day. 

Enough of that. Besides the BAD stuff, there is good too. My brother gets married next month and my sister is flying up, who I haven't seen in 2 years. She's never met Max! I'm excited to have my whole family together again.

Helena, how are things? Haven't heard from you in a while?


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy, I'm so sorry to hear about your fight with dh. I can't imagine. :( sometimes I'll mention things that your dh does to my dh and even he thinks it's awful! You do so much and wear yourself so thin... and your dh just adds to that stress. I wish there was a way you could just get out of the relationship, but I know it's hard with the kids... and you have to follow your own heart on the situation. For now, I'm sending huge hugs :hugs: through the virtual world and telling you to PLEASE vent to us. We are definitely here to listen. That's what is great about our group of ladies. :). :hugs:

BTW, is Max walking yet? I'm getting a bit concerned with Camden because he isn't walking, but then I think of Max and feel better I'm not alone! ;). I worry sometimes because Camden doesn't walk, say anything but babble, and doesn't seem to understand any easy commands we give him. And only has 4 teeth! I know each child develops at theirown rate, but is it common to be nbehind on EVERYTHING?! love him so much but a bit concerned... 

Do you have any names picked out wamommy? I haven't heard you mention anything about names.


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Please feel free to vent to us at any time. Some of the things your DH has done has made my DH reconsider how he talks to me at times and how stressful it is to be a mom with constant demands.

Sierra - I am glad you got the AF thing figured out. That would be terrible!

Dragon - I hear you on the monetary stress issue. It is horrible. Our hospital sent us to collections just like you even though we had been paying monthy (via direct deposit). Thankfully I received the collection notice before 30 days had passed and now we pay the agency rather than the hospital, but it is not reflected on our credit.

No solid news on the job front here, but we have a couple of really hopeful leads for DH up in Portland. Not thinking we went on Good Friday and a lot of people were already out of the office. He has a lot of phone calls to make on Monday. Happy Easter everyone!

Helena - I hope your mom is doing okay.

We only have 8 teeth here, but we can see 8 more wanting to pop through. They will come up one day and sink back down the next. Teagen is frustrated and in pain which makes for grumpy everyone. But her signing increases everyday. This morning we were reading a book together and she correctly signed all of the animals before I could read off their names. She has also started pointing out her body parts and our body parts and telling us their names.


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## SierraJourney

That's adorable on the signing---how fun!

Camden just started getting his FIFTH tooth today! Apparently he thinks he needs to be held all da because of it too! ;)

I'm assuming there's a baby, wamommy?! I hope you are doing well!! Can't wait to hear!


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## wamommy

No baby!!! GRRRRR... I just came back from an OB appointment (and non-stress test) but my regular OB is out of town so I had some new guy. I didn't particularly care for him and although the nst looked great, he doesn't do physical exams, so I have NO IDEA whether I dilated more or not. :( I was really looking forward to finding out, and hoping that some encouraging news would keep me optimistic. DH also threw a hissy fit about the Doctor being male (seriously...) and insisted on being in the room with all 3 kids, so it was like a circus and I didn't really feel like I got to ask any good questions or get any info. Sigh... I'm so done!

Sierra, Max isn't walking yet either, don't worry! He stands for a second and then realizes that he isn't holding onto anything and plops down to his butt. He cruises like a champ, but no independent steps yet. He has 8 front teeth, but no molars. He's also learning some pretty funny words. His new favorite thing to say to us is "stop that!" which actually sounds like "Dop Dat!" It's too cute. He LOVES dogs, and anytime we see or hear one he perks up and starts to get super excited. I wish we had the yard for one! I keep telling the girls we'll build a fence in a couple of years so that they can have a dog. 

I'm off to make the dreaded phone calls to my mom and sister... They call me every day hoping for "baby news" and it stinks to keep telling them, "nothing yet!"


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy! That's so frustrating! I would have been so upset if they didn't check me too! Argh!! I'm sorry for keep asking about the baby, too. .. just when I hadn't heard from you, thought for SURE it must be it! lol. . . It'll be here before you know it. And how ridiculous of DH to have to go in the room with you---my goodness! 

We, too, are waiting on a dog. . . probably won't happen with this house because we have no back yard. :( I'm hoping when Camden is older though! We have our heart set on an Irish Wolfhound! :) 

I'm jealous of Max's words! They sound adorable! What a smart little cookie! Watch--he and Camden will walk around the exact same time. . little buggers. :)


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, sorry for all your frustration! That is ridiculous that your husband had a fit over a male doctor...what the heck? 

Lily loves dogs, too. She points out every dog she sees in her books, and loves to visit with her uncle's little terrier. On Easter, there was a big golden retriever at the house we went to, and oh my gosh, you should have seen Lily's face! She was kind of grumpy when we got there, so she was frowning when we set down her carseat in the living room. Then she saw the dog and her entire face lit up. Unfortunately, the dog got excited and barked, and scared the shit out of her...so she was afraid of him the rest of the day :wacko:. It was worth it to see her little face light up like that, though.

Excuse me while I go throw up. The nausea is hitting me hard today.


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## helena

Hi girls!!so no baby yet I see. Come on wamommy ;) xxx


Hope you are all well and had happy Easters. We went back to the uk to see my mum. Which was great. Kiara is so much more open to people now, she almost kissed my mum (as in she opens her mouth and lunges at you) and smiled and entertained everyone. It was lovely. Mum seemed well.evey visit I wonder if it could be the last, and that is heartbreaking. I know she has discussed where she wants to die and the idea of that conversation even breaks. My heart. 
But we carry on, as we must. But it's all very tough.

My eldest (5) is on a school trip at the moment, staying one night and two days. I can't believe they go away so young. But he was excited so it's all good. The house has been nice and quiet in his absence...but can't wait to collect him when he gets back tonight :)

We got three new chickens a few weeks ago Kellen. A white one (Sussex breed), a red and a speckled black (maran). We get two or three eggs a day :) Kiara loves the chickens and was so sad when one pecked her finger last week. I think she as more upset at the betrayal of her "friend" rather than the pain!!

Kiara regularly goes free at the park and regularly puts things in her mouth, I don't worry if its stones etc and just ask her to expect whatever it is. The only yucky thing recently was she kept going for some cigarette butts at a park. Those I had to get to and move before she reached them. Yuk.

Xx


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## SierraJourney

Oh Helena--that is just so heartbreaking about your mum. I can't even imagine. :hugs: 

Camden lunges with open mouth too. . .but usually ends up biting. :( Dose anyone else's lo bite?! Camden dos this at least 15 times a day. I can't figure out if he thinks he is kissing, or trying to get a reaction from me, or just being naughty? ?

I can't believe your 5 year old's trip was over-night---that does seem young, but glad he was excited about it! You'll have to let us know how it went for him when he gets back! 

Yuck on the cigarette butts. . . natural dirt and things don't bother me that much, but things like that---definitely!


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## helena

My son got back this evening and it was all good apparently. I have never seen him so tired though :) it was like a class of zombies getting off the bus! Fun was obviously had x


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## SierraJourney

helena said:


> My son got back this evening and it was all good apparently. I have never seen him so tired though :) it was like a class of zombies getting off the bus! Fun was obviously had x

Adorable!


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so glad to hear from you! Your trip to see your Mom sounds tough, but I'm so glad you get that time with her. It sounds like Kiara is such a bright light in a hard situation! 

I can't imagine my oldest going on an overnight trip! I'm sure SHE would love it, but I'd be a wreck. :haha: I'm glad your son had fun and is home safely. 

We just came back from the roller skating rink. My girls are getting pretty into it and today got their own skates. I'm tired of paying for rentals when we go so often! It's great exercise and I feel a little less guilty about living in a rainy state where they're trapped inside several months a year. :dohh: The little pink and white skates have pink wings on them, lol... 

I'm still pregnant! Sigh... I'm actually feeling pretty good today, which is oddly discouraging. I hope that doesn't mean labor is even farther away! Everyone send me your strongest labor vibes!! I want to meet this little person. :)


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## helena

Come on baby it's nice outside! Come on!!!!!


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## DragonflyWing

Did you take a final bump pic, wamommy?


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## SierraJourney

Yay on rollerskating! How fun! 

And come on baby---you're Momma needs a break! So, please come out and be the calmest, sweetest little baby yet please! :hugs:


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## Kellen

Come on,Baby your big sisters and brother want to gaze adoringly at you. Plus your mom needs a stay-cation at the hospital.


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## wamommy

Thank you, ladies! Let's hope the vibes kick in tonight and baby decides to come out! I thought perhaps I was going into labor last night because I was up with cramping, but it stopped this morning once I took a shower! Ah well... My Mom called again and told me that I have to have the baby before Sunday because she'll be out of town for 4 days. Thanks Mom, I'll pass that along to the baby and make sure we're all on the same schedule. :dohh: I'd really like her to be there, though. Let's hope it's in the next day or 2!

Dragon, I haven't taken bump pictures since 35 weeks because I feel SO gross and smooshy. In your honor I took one this morning in the mirror. I'm not much of a "selfie" person, but you're right, I should have a final bump pic!!! The other one is me at the park with Max a few days ago. UPDATE: Max took a step today. One... but still!! DH set him down in the middle of the room and he stood there, took one step forward, then promptly plopped to his butt and crawled. I repeated it over and over, and it appears we're stuck on that one step!! Ah well, at least it's progress.
 



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## DragonflyWing

Aww you and Max look adorable! Yay for his first step!!

I can tell just looking at you that you're going to snap back like a rubber band as soon as that baby is born! You don't look stretched out at all! I'm jealous of people with resilient skin :haha:


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## SierraJourney

You're beautiful wamommy! And Max is soooo cute! Yay for the one step!!! We're getting there! Camden finally decided to try to push his walking toy last night---so I have plenty of video of that, but no walking unassisted for him yet either! ;)


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## Kellen

You don't look big or smooshish at all, Wamommy. Yes for Max! He knows his being carried time is going to be limited very shortly. 

And huzzah for Camden pushing a toy! He am sure that they will both take off like rockstars pretty soon.

We have a climber here. The couch. The table. The floor heater. The haybales. The gate. The highchair.... EVERYTHING! Thankfully she asks for help getting down (except the couch, that has been mastered).


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## SierraJourney

So, I'm helping a graduate student with her year-end project later this afternoon and thought I'd tell you about it. . . She is a psychology major and has to test under 2 year olds to see if they are developmentally on track with their peers. She basically has various toys she gives to the child, various positions she puts them in, etc, to "test" them. I'm kinda interested in the whole process. It'll be for an hour today and I get to be in the room the entire time while she tests Camden (she comes to our home apparently). I won't get the exact results of the test because she is just a student, and liability reasons, etc, but if he's way off mark, they'll let me know. I'm figuring he'll be fine, but am interested in seeing how he reacts to her because of his extreme separation anxiety and pure hatred of other people! :rofl: should be entertaining at least! ;)


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## wamommy

Sierra, that sounds really interesting! I'm sure Camden's in the normal range, but it will be fun to see how he responds to her tests, too. :D

Yay for Camden using his walking toy! We tease Max because he uses his on his KNEES. He "walks" across the room pushing his toy with his knees on the ground. Weirdo. I'm sure Camden is close to walking if he's mastered that already.

Kellen, I can't believe that Teagen can climb! There is so much more to explore once you can go "up!" :D What a clever girl.

I'm still pregnant, lol. Sigh. DH and I had another big fight last night (well, if a fight is him yelling and me waiting for him to stop) and I'm so uncomfortable I could burst. For some reason I'm having a much better attitude about it all today, though. It's almost comical at this point. Maybe it's because Max is finally not sick anymore so I slept alright last night. :shrug: Either way, today would be a great day for baby to come! I might go walk on the treadmill to try to speed things along.


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, so glad to hear you're having a good day! The day before I had Camden was a super good day for me emotionally and dh and I had a date day... very pleasant time. The next morning 9am labor started! Maybe this is your calm before the storm!


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## SierraJourney

SierraJourney said:


> Wamommy, so glad to hear you're having a good day! The day before I had Camden was a super good day for me emotionally and dh and I had a date day... very pleasant time. The next morning 9am labor started! Maybe this is your calm before the storm!

Storm being labor that is. ;)


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## helena

We have a climber too. Kiara has also started easing herself down off things unaided. She slid herself down off out high double bed the other day and got a shock and landed on her bottom. She was pretty much controlled though. She has almost given up walking. And now just runs. It's a sort of straight legged run. Very cute and funny to watch. It's like she is always in a big hurry. I have noticed that since she started working on her running she has stopped developing her speech. We have very few words beyond dada and tacter (tractor) these days. It's like she can only develop one thing at a time.
She is ill at the moment, has had a fever for the last 24 hours :(

Sorry to hear you and DH had a row wamommy, that must be tough at this stage for you. It makes me sad he shouts at you :( you are the most wonderful woman for carrying all his children!

Just had our "payday pizza".. Pizza takeout guilt free because its payday. I like this day :)


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Why does your DH feel the need to be a jerk when you are in one of the most vulnerable states a woman can be in? I am keeping you in my prayers and hopefully something will change soon. At least you were able to get a little rest! 

Sierra - How did the afternoon with the grad student go? I think that would be a fascinating project to be a part of. Public administration grad work isn't so hands on or fun getting to see little people.

Helena - So sorry that Kiara isn't feeling well. And ditto on the running here - especially with the straight legs. I'm not sure Teagen knows quite how to work her knees, although she is practicing going up and down steps while holding on to something. This afternoon I was spot cleaning the carpet and left Teagen on the landing which has three steps. Never before has she gotten down by herself. But today, as I am using chemicals that I don't want her around, she simply guides herself down using the wall. Cheeky monkey!

My cousin and his wife and their three girls are due in tomorrow. Things ought to be nice and chaotic for the weekend. Thankfully they are staying at the big house, but we might be babysitting the dog. I am curious to see how Teagen reacts to having a 7, 8 and 10 year old around.


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Baby?

It has been quiet here...

Well, interesting news on the job front. DH was randomly looking for a grooming table today on Craigslist and ended up finding a grooming shop for sale for only $2500. So, on a lark, the entire family drove an hour and twenty minutes to look at said shop. Spoke with the owner. Fairly decent equipment, the shop needs a face-lift, but... we are going to get a loan tomorrow. DH doesn't really want to be a groomer, he wants to sale, but it seems like God keeps putting grooming in our path. The owner let us look at the books and on a bad day (his wife had to have major back surgery hence why they closed it) they were making $120. If DH only makes $100/day we will still be able to cover all expenses plus bring home around $1100 a month.

I am fairly certain Teagen has a built in "mom needs to go do something" sensor when I try to put her to bed. Last night I had no grandiose plans, just hanging out with DH and she went to sleep before I finished her bedtime songs. Tonight I needed to finish a 5 page paper... would she sleep? No, she wanted to hold my hand and sing to me. Then stand up and "walk" her Pup-Pup (her stuffed dog) along the crib railing. Finally I made DH go to her. He merely asked her to lay down (which I had done 100 times!) and she did. No joke, in less than a minute she was laying down with her dog and blanket and fast asleep. Now he is all smug...


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## helena

I vote bedtime is Daddy's job now Kellen. See how long that smugness lasts ;)

Good luck with the new shop! exciting times. Is this dog grooming? 

Is wamommy off having baby?....I have a feeling she is!! Eeek, exciting!

It's school holidays here so it's busy and crazy in this house, but I will try and pop back later to see if there is baby news! :)


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## Kellen

Helena - That is a fantastic idea. LOL. And yes, it is dog grooming. He also grooms cats even though he isn't fond of it. Did you know that the average cat BATH cost around $50? And a haircut is around $70. That seems insane to me.

I had a dream that Wamommy had another little girl.


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## wamommy

No baby! LOL I thought for SURE baby would be here already. Technically my due date is Wednesday, so I'm not even over due. I suppose I'm just so used to babies coming BEFORE their due date so I'm shocked to still be pregnant!! My Mom stopped by yesterday on her way out of town for 4 days, so Murphy's Law would definitely assume the baby will come while she's gone. :haha: If nothing happens by Friday I have an OB appointment where I can moan to my OB. Let's hope I don't make it that far!

It's funny that you've had a dream that this baby is a girl, Kellen! I've been certain the entire pregnancy that it's a boy, but have just started trying to finalize a girl name just in case. Another girl would be great! 

Good job with the running, Teagen and Kiara!! In a very selfish way I'm glad Max can't run (or walk :blush:) yet, since I can't waddle that quickly after him! Helena, your house must be bustling with activity with the boys home this week. It's always fun, isn't it? I always welcome the 'normal' schedule when break is over, though.

Kellen, perhaps the grooming shop was put in your path for a reason! It sounds like a great opportunity. Did you go in to get the loan?

Max is freaking out, so my break time is over!! :haha:


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## Kellen

We were denied any loans, but a friend of ours fronted DH the money. She owns her own grooming shop and he was previously her mentor. Now we are trying to scrape together the funds for the rent for the shop.

Silly baby wants to take its time since he/she knows they are the last of the line.


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## helena

Oh I felt sure today was the day wamommy! Tomorrow then!!
And I feel you are having a BOY!


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## SierraJourney

I feel it's a boy too! :)

Kellen--that's so great about the grooming shop--definitely sounds meant to be!

The testing done on Camden went well. He did great in some areas, but in others not so well (verbal and walking). She was a bit alarmed that he hit every single toy on the table or threw it on the floor. She told me to offer him more soft toys. He isn't interested in soft toys AT ALL, but loves to hear clicking noises by hitting objects together or on a table, etc. I thought all 1 year olds were like this? Do your lo's do this? I didn't seem to see it as as much of a problem as she did. :haha:

Freaking out today because I have to return to work on Mondays starting NEXT Monday. We have NO sitter for Camden yet. DH is taking a vacation day on Monday to watch him, but we need to interview some people this week. We've been putting it off because we just don't want someone else watching our child. This is so hard for me. . .I'm literally sick over it. Plus, work is just outrageous lately. . .I'm so busy, I don't even have a life! :( So discouraged. . . I'm just praying a miracle happens between now and then. 

Lots of labor love going out to you tonight wamommy!!! :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Sierra- the twins like to hit toys on the coffee table and/or throw them on the floor, too. Lily likes to hug and kiss soft toys, but Gunnar isn't all that interested in them.

wamommy- wow, I thought for sure I'd come back to see baby news! I hope the baby comes soon so you don't have to be so uncomfortable for much longer!

Kellen- wow, the grooming shop sounds neat! Will your DH be doing it on his own, or will he have employees? 

Lily has pretty much mastered walking, so I have two little toddlers! It makes things interesting when we go out...I really can't corral them both, as they run in different directions and always go for the most dangerous thing they can find. That means usually one gets to run around and one has to wait in the stroller, unless I have someone with me to help. I might need a couple of those little backpacks with leashes!

We had to go to court today for the collections issue...once they realized we were disputing it, they reset the court date for a few weeks from now so we have time to get a lawyer and all our research done. It sucks, and I came home with a migraine that I haven't been able to shake.

Is it possible to feel movement at 10 weeks? I swear I've been feeling activity in there today...it doesn't feel like gas bubbles. I felt the twins at 11 weeks, but I thought it was because there were two! What do you think?


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## Kellen

Dragon - I think you probably do feel your little bean. You know what to expect and you are probably super sensitive since having the twins. I know at 10 weeks our cat would come and sit on my belly and press her ear up against me and start purring. We are pretty sure she was listening to Teagen wiggle around.
At least you have a little more time before collections comes knocking at your door. Still it is no fun to have to deal with all of that plus an extra baby on the way. Not that the baby part is bad, but it does contribute to stress.

Sierra - I would absolutely be physically ill if I had to leave Teagen and go to work. I'm sorry that this is happening to you. And I wouldn't worry about Camden and his love of noises. Teagen does like cuddling soft toys, but she also enjoys banging things together or throwing them off the table. However, she has an obsession with cleaning so she likes to pick up the toys and then follow behind with her miniature broom or towel.

No loans, but we were gifted the money via a family friend and my grandmother. We will be going back up to the shop on Thursday after DH finishes out his part-time grooming gig. My parents wanted to chip in so they bought us paint. Right now the shop is a horrible green color that makes me want to wear sunglasses. So after we paint the walls will be a nice cream color with mocha trim.

The shop is actually about 90 minutes from where we live so DH will be living there during the week. There is a church we want to try out and they have services on Saturday evenings. Since most grooming shops are closed on Sun/Mon DH will go to church with us on Sat and then we will drive him back Tuesday morning. So basically Sat and Tues will be the days I'm in the office to do all the bookwork and helping out with bathing. There are two backrooms that we will be converting into "break rooms" and stocking with couches and pack n plays and Teagen toys. That way she has a safe place to be while I'm working. So nice that I can have a job to take my child to without a boss looming over my shoulder.

Wamommy - I'm voting girl and I think you'll have her within the next three days.


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## helena

Kellen, it sounds like you have the shop all planned out. Running your own business like that sounds great. Good luck! If you get a little website going do share it with us :)

Wamommy, are you pushing right now!?!


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that sounds like a great shop! How fun! DH and I always dream about opening our own business---I think it's fabulous to be your own bosses! Do share a website or pictures or anything! So excited for you!


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## helena

Oh wamommy is quiet!.....

Breathe!...

Puuuuuuush!

(Says the woman with three kids who hasn't given birth naturally even once!)


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## SierraJourney

Helena you're making me laugh! :).I sure hope she's busy having that little darling!


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## Kellen

Too funny, Helena. Hope the baby comes soon!

DH and I entered the digital age yesterday and got iPhones. Now our business has a Twitter and Facebook. I have a friend who does some web design so I am going to be calling her and asking for some help. When we go to paint I'll be taking a ton of before and after photos.


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## wamommy

:rofl: Helena, you're too funny! I WISH I were having this LO right now, but it's still parked comfortably in my enormous mid-section! :dohh: I've had a TON of pressure today and feel like tonight might be the night, but we'll see. Did any of you need to be induced or helped along with pitocin? I think on Friday at my appointment they may offer it due to the baby's size, and I'm sort of freaking out about it!

Keep up those labor vibes. I think they're working!! :happydance:

Kellen, I'm so happy for you about the shop. That sounds like an incredible situation for you guys. I can't wait to see before and afters! 

Sierra, I'm glad your test went well with Camden! I wouldn't worry about bashing toys. Max loves to throw everything. If I pile toys for him he just throws them all across the room. Boys are weird. :D

I'm going to go walk the zoo with the kids. Maybe tonight's the night!


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## Kellen

I had to have pitocin due to my water breaking so early. Nasty stuff...


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## helena

Oh I can "like" your fb page if you like?! I do have some friends in the US, but not sure if they are near you though... It all sounds very exciting.
Oh wamommy, I am disappointed!


I am super excited because I just got a text from DH saying he just bought a bike trailer, so Kiara and my middle son can go in there while DH, I and my eldest son go on our own bikes. Family bike rides a-hoy!! :) it's been years since I rode my bike, I have always been walking while the kids bike, scooter or run, but I can't wait :)

And I agree, bashing toys is so normal. That student clearly hasn't seen my children...our house is literally broken....they break everything. Not meaning to...just by being boisterous. It provides my husband with a hobby...DIY fixing. Walls...doors...flooring.....tables...sofas... Seriously, they break everything. It drives me nuts.

I build towers of bricks with Kiara. She bashes them down. It's the game. And she likes banging things to make noises.


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy--we're still cheering for you! :) 

Helena, that's great news about the bike trailer! We've used our seat a couple of times, and Camden LOVES it! It's so freeing!!

Thanks ladies on the throwing things! He does it so often that I was worried once she said that. Camden also scatters anything I stack, too. . .be it blocks or even laundry! Silly boy. :)


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## helena

Oh scattering yes. Kiara loves scattering. Laundry...baby wipes if she can get she hands on a pack....tissues out of the box....anything. Everywhere.


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## Kellen

I have a scatterer too. Right now it is clothes out of her dresser. She loves to open the drawer and pull out the clothes.

Yesterday when we were over visiting with my mom and grandmother Teagen followed my mom down the hall. A few minutes later my mom comes back sans baby. Apparently my mom had went to fetch some soup and Teagen detoured into her room where she scaled the bed. I found her with her head on the cat "meowing" and petting said cat.

Helena - That would be great if you could like the page once I set it all up. The more people who see it the better for us. And hooray for bike rides! My plans to buy a bike are temporarily on hold seeing as we just bought a business. I am jealous. Have fun!

Sierra - Teagen likes to make noise. She likes to experiment with different objects to see what sort of noises she can create. I think it is normal toddler development. She has one stuffed toy that she sleeps with and isn't overly fond of the other ones. When you ask her to give them kisses she bites their noses and walks around with them hanging from her mouth. :dohh:


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## helena

Kiara however does love a soft toy. As well as banging hard stuff. She sleeps with "duckie" who she adores. I must buy a second one. She will also cuddle and lay down on most other big soft toys.

Love the image of Taegan and the cat! Very cute. Kiara was stroking her brother on the hair this evening as he pretended to be a dog...


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- that's so cute that she was petting the cat. :) We're working on animal sounds right now, Lily will tell you moo, meow, ooh ooh ah ah (monkey), and baa. 

She loves to sit in the recliner with her Curious George book while watching Curious George videos on the TV...she LOVES monkeys. Gunnar doesn't really care about animal sounds, but he's starting to point to body parts when you ask, and they both give hugs and kisses.

I'm continuously amazed by how different they are...Lily is often content to sit and play or read her books quietly, or watch some Veggie Tales, and she has a great attention span. Gunnar likes to read his books, too, but he doesn't have the attention span yet to sit for long, and doesn't really watch TV for more than a minute or two at a time. He'd much rather try to get into cabinets and drawers, or climb on things, or grab daddy's papers...he's very naughty! He loves to be tossed in the air or flipped around, while Lily gets a little nervous with that kind of stuff. They both follow two part directions well, like "Find your bottle and bring it to mama, please"...but Gunnar likes to pretend he can't hear you when he doesn't want to do something ;)

Gunnar is also being quite a bully lately...if Lily has a toy he wants, he will knock her down and take it away. She gets her feelings hurt and cries and cries, but she rarely fights back. Occasionally she'll wait until later and then suddenly start hitting him out of the blue like she's getting revenge :haha: I know I shouldn't laugh, but it's so funny. We're trying to teach them not to hit and to share better, but so far nothing seems to work with Gunnar. Sometimes he won't let her play with anything at all, and we have to put him in the playpen to cool off and give her a break.


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## helena

I am still working on the no hitting and sharing thing with my eldest. He is 6 in July! Lol!

How are you feeling dragon? X


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## wamommy

Well, it turns out yesterday WAS the day!! After a 3-hour labor my bump turned bright BLUE!!!! The most gorgeous, 9lb, blonde-haired baby boy entered the world. He is absolutely beautiful. He doesn't have a name, since the ONE NAME I had my heart set on Dh has decided to veto. :( I may still fight for it, though. We just got home from the hospital and poor Max is snoring away from all of the excitement. This transition is going to be tough!!
 



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## Kellen

YIPPEE! Congrats on your newest little boy! He is absolutely gorgeous. I and say fight for your name! DH has gotten to name all the others, it is your turn! Use those mommy hormones and stick to your guns. Tell the girls his name and once they latch on to it hopefully it will stick.

:happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance:


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## helena

Oh yay! Welcome to the world beautiful boy. Congratulations to you all. Oh he is really very lovely. Well done mummy!!! Two boys and two girls. All just about perfect I say!!! Hoping you are feeling ok.

Good luck Max in this adventure! 

Oh he is so gorgeous! And such a great weight!! :happydance:

And best of all I was right...:thumbup:

:crib::cloud9::blue::dance::hug:


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## SierraJourney

Congratulations wamommy!! He's gorgeous! Well done! I agree-- fight for the name-- you deserve it! I hope the transition is easier than you think and Max settles into this very easily. Welcome to the world, new baby boy!


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, he is gorgeous! I just want to squeeze his chubbly little cheeks! I agree, stick to your guns about the name. Can't wait to hear the full story!

How are you feeling?


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## helena

Just looked at his picture again wamommy, did he sleep through his first bath!? 
Hoping you have a super duper sleeper on your hands with this little guy :) 

Ooh he is so lovely. Thinking of you xxx


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## Kellen

I concur with Helena. I hope that this little guy is a champion snoozer. He looks so laid back and mellow. Congrats again!


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## wamommy

Thank you, ladies!!! I'm sitting here feeding the little guy, so I'll try to type out the whole birth story with one hand.

After I posted on here about walking the zoo, the kids said they'd rather go bike riding. We loaded up their bikes and headed out to our usual spot, which is a 1-mile trail around a lake. It's beautiful, but kind of secluded. Halfway there I just couldn't take it anymore and started to cry. DH looked over at me and said, "something wrong?" I told him I felt a ton of back pain and pressure and wasn't sure I could make the walk. He angrily swung a sharp u-turn and headed home. The girls burst into tears in the back seat. They were SO disappointed. I told DH we should find another park or trail that was closer to home and less of a walk, and we compromised on one that is literally 3 blocks from the hospital. The kids rode bikes and I sat on the bench realizing that the pressure and pain feeling was beginning to be more regular. I told DH that we better pack up and go in to the hospital just to be sure.

We got to the hospital at about 5:30pm and checked in and headed up to the birth unit. The check-in nurse leisurely took my vitals and checked dilation. I think she thought I was not that far in because she looked shocked when I was 8.5cm dilated. They moved me to a different room immediately and my OB (who was on her way home for the day when they paged her) arrived. She didn't deliver any of my others, so we were both SUPER excited that she made this one.

Contractions quickly started to pick up, and soon it was 1 minute on/1minute off and I was reminded how truly hard transition is. The OB asked to break my water, and as soon as she did I was pushing. 2 contractions later, at 7:26pm the baby was out and on my chest! DH was so flustered he didn't announce the gender, so I was saying, "what is it?? What is it??" :haha:

I had to have an IV drip after the baby was born because of my low platelets and risk of hemorrhaging. After that I was transferred to my overnight room and Marc left with Max to go get the girls (who had been picked up by a friend) and go home for the night. I spent the entire night with the baby, learning his temperament and enjoying the peace and quiet. The next morning DH brought all of the kids to the hospital, and by 6pm when they let me leave I was completely frazzled from having the girls, Max AND a new baby in a tiny hospital room for hours. :wacko:

So here we are! I took the baby to the pediatrician this morning and he's lost 15oz, which is more than they like to see. My milk is coming in today, but I may still have to supplement with formula if this keeps up. :( I'm trying not to be too sad about that.

We also still don't have a name!! I'm actually REALLY hurt by DH's behavior surrounding the name. He told me from the beginning that I could choose any name I wanted and he would support it. Now suddenly the name I chose is the ONLY one in the world that DH can't stand and wants to veto. :( I am so incredibly disappointed. I'd name him that anyway, but DH says he won't ever call the baby by the name I chose and will hate the name for the baby's whole life. He won't give in and has honestly been a complete ass about it. I cried and explained how important it is to me, and he just yelled at me louder. I don't get it. I think it's some weird power thing where he just can't let me have this... :( I've been crazily searching baby names the last 2 days, but since I'd emotionally attached to the name nothing seems to fit.

Anyhow, I'm sorry this is so long!! I hope it's not too disjointed. Our house is chaos right now.

I hope you are all doing well!


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy--that is a crazy birth story! I can't believe how quickly it happened! Good thing you actually spoke up inspite of DH's anger! I have no idea how you stay with him, quite honestly--I think I would have packed up my bags and children long ago. I know it must be so hard for you. . . I am sorry for how awful he is to you---you deserve so much more!

I'd say name your child whatever you desire. . . have all of your kids call him by the proper name regardless of what DH calls him. . .and make sure all relatives/friends call the baby by his rightful name. . .then DH will be the only one that calls him otherwise. . . 

Here's to hoping things settle down a bit at your house and you all settle into a routine. Keep working at the breastfeeding--you never know, this one might be the one that gets your supply up! :) At either rate, all of your babies are healthy and beautiful---no matter if you can breastfeed or not. Try not to put too much pressure on yourself---you have so much on your plate already. . . you need to be good to yourself! :hugs:


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## Jo_Bean

Congratulations wamommy!!! He really is a beautiful baby xx

Men can be such idiots :grrr: can you tell us the name and we'll all vote and then hubby has to agree?


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## wamommy

Jo_Bean said:


> Men can be such idiots :grrr: can you tell us the name and we'll all vote and then hubby has to agree?

Sure! It's Luca. I've loved it since I found out I was pregnant. It's kind of a nod to my European heritage too, which I like. He'll have DH's Japanese middle name (a tradition that passes down through the boy line) and an Irish last name... lol.


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## SierraJourney

It's perfect wamommy! He LOOKS like a Luca!! Can dh call him Luke and be satisfied? Or no? At any rate, it's a lovely name!!!


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## Jo_Bean

I love it! It's a strong name. What doesn't DH like about it?


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## wamommy

Jo_Bean said:


> I love it! It's a strong name. What doesn't DH like about it?

That's the thing... DH days there are a "myriad of things" he doesn't like about it, but won't explain further. At first he tried to say it reminded him of an ex, but then admitted that was a lie after I pressed it. He's tried everything to sway me from the name. I feel like pretending to pick a terrible name, like Edgar or Wilfred, and see if he REALLY would be okay with any name but Luca. Tonight I'm just trying to weigh if it's a battle I want to choose and how much I want this name. It could potentially cause world war 3, but I think I would win. 

Sierra, I've thought about packing my bags at least once a day for years, lol. It's so tough because I don't have anywhere to go... not with 4 kids. The schools are great where we are and the kids DO adore their Dad. I just keep telling myself that maybe once they're all in school it would be a good time? It all seems too overwhelming right now. It's like it's a ton easier to just deal with it than face the unknown of leaving, ya know?

Bleh, enough whining for me! Joe, it's so good to hear from you? How is Olivia? How are you doing?

Dragon, how are you feeling? I totally think you can feel baby at 10 weeks, especially being a 2nd time Mom.

Kellen, how's the shop coming along?

I'm off to eat dinner! I love you ladies for your support. Honestly. :hugs:


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## Kellen

Wamommy - That was a nice fast birth! And I would stick to my guns. I agree about getting the girls to call the baby Luca. Eventually DH will come around. And once we have our shop set up and get a house you can come live with us... seriously. DH agrees that you don't need to be in that situation and if we can help you then we will.

Today was LOOOONG. DH and my dad headed up to the shop with a horse trailer full of stuff while mom and I hit up the dollar store for a mop and broom to destroy since the place was FILTHY! As we pulled out of the parking lot DH called to say that they forgot the paint. Yes, the whole reason we were going up today had been left in the garage. So we went back and got it for them since they were already 45 minutes up the road.

I managed to get the electric switched to our name. The nice fellow took a shine to me and waived the initial $195 deposit. Then I called the phone/internet provider and found out that the previous owners still owe $275, but the nice lady managed to push that aside as well as give me $100 credit plus $10 off my bill for the next 10 months and set up to connect everything on Tuesday.

As we drove into town we noticed that they were hosting a small farmer's market two blocks down from the shop. So my mom, Teagen and I walked down. One of the vendors makes and sells her own dog biscuits. I struck up a conversation with her and invited her to come see the shop. She is now GIVING us FREE of charge three shelves worth of merchandise to see how well it sells. If we make a profit she asks that we then begin purchasing from her at a whole sale price. 

Then another lady from the booth next to her noticed my shirt from DH's alma mater and mentioned she went to the California Maritime Academy and graduated as the first female engineer in 1981... I graduated from there in 2009. She has three border collies. Although she doesn't want them groomed she wondered if we would be opening a self-bathing center. Sure! Why not? Apparently there are lots of working dogs in the area and they need a space to do a nice wash every once in a while. She also has major contacts with people who show their dogs.

Next we visited the bank. Teagen had a mini-meltdown. This prompted the lady to just copy our paperwork and tell us to come back Monday to sign the signature cards for the business account and that we were pre-approved. While waiting I called the local insurance agent who immediately wanted to make appointments to have her three dogs groomed... and come over tomorrow to sign the company up for an insurance policy.

Then I drove my mom, Teagen and myself an hour and a half back to our current residence. Teagen, of course, fell asleep and is now snoozing in her crib. For the past two nights she has slept from 8pm to 7am without waking or even needing a pat on the back. It has been nice. Now I'm beat and going to turn in. That was a super long post but if you want to check out our Facebook page it is PawPrints Grooming and Photography


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## helena

Oh wamommy, what a pro - so fast and at the park excercising the girls three hours before having baby. Well done you!! Xxxx

Would DH accept Luke maybe instead?

I can't imagine having all the kids plus baby in a hospital room. I actually feel quite panicked by the idea...I hated having all mine in the room...it was chaos verging on a stress out melt down or disaster at any moment. So with you having one more...wow. Bravo!! 
I so wish hospitals would have a play room. So the siblings can go and be boisterous somewhere they are allowed. Even going to the hospital cafe with mine was stressful...

What does Max make of a baby in your arms these days? Xx

We went on a bike ride with the bike trailer today. I love it! We did about 10 km so I am very pleased my eldest managed to keep peddling all that way. We will sleep well tonight! My two youngest love the trailer. Even when we stopped at the park Kiara was trying to climb back in.

Oh my, I think. Kiara has hit the terrible twos already. Today and yesterday have been full on temper tantrums. She shakes from side to side or throws herself in the floor and cries. It's all new....
I remember with my boys the terrible twos started at 18 months...1.5-2.5 was a tough tantrum time. seems it's even earlier this time. Yikes!!! Lol


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## helena

Funnily enough a friend of my youngest son is called Edgar! His mum is French dad is English. I didn't like it at first but it has grown on me! Maybe that name has a future!..


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## helena

Hey Kellen it sounds like the business is going great! What a positive start :)


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen, that sounds like a great day! Everything is coming together :)

wamommy- I love the name Luca! I hope DH comes around. I'm feeling ok...the fatigue is getting a little better, and the nausea is sporadic. I only got sick twice this past week. I'll be 11 weeks tomorrow, getting closer to second trimester! My ultrasound is in 12 days :)


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## helena

Oh not long until the 12 week scan dragon, exciting!! Wow that's gone by fast!!

If Kiara was a boy we considered the name Sid or Sidney in case that tickles your fancy wamommy.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that's so cool that everything is coming together so nicely! What a busy day---but great connections!!

wamommy---I totally see why you haven't left yet. . .that's a huge step. I hope someday either things get better for you or you can find that perfect moment to leave. :hugs: I hope you are adjusting nicely to being a mum of 4!

Dragon---so exciting! I can't wait to see pics soon! 

I'm sitting here at work. . .DH is home with Camden. I have such a bad attitude. . .we still haven't found a sitter for Camden on Mondays, so for this week, DH took a vacation day. . .He won't be able to do that next week, so I'm not sure what we'll do. I keep praying for an answer. . .


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## Kellen

Sierra - That is hard. I'm sorry you are having troubles. I will keep praying for you too that an answer is readily found.

Dragon - Not far off! Are you going to find out the gender this time or keep it a surprise?

Helena - Kiara isn't the only one throwing tantrums. Teagen likes to flail her arms and hit me if she doesn't get her way. I gently lay her on the floor and let her squirm around like an angry eel. The day before yesterday she bit my face and I put her in time out. After trying to get up 5 or 6 times she finally signed "sorry" and started whimpering. Once we had hugged she refused to let go of my hand. At least she somewhat understands contrition.

I discovered that Teagen has a dependency issue with her diapers. I used disposables on her when we were at the shop and now her poor little bottom is tore up. So yesterday we let her go mostly bare bottom. When she doesn't have a diaper on she will tell us she needs to potty or go sit on her little potty. The instant the diapers go back on she stops letting us know and just uses the diapers. I guess I need to get some training pants.

No painting has been done at the shop because the walls were absolutely FILTHY! My mom, grandma and dad went up yesterday and cleaned for 10 hours. DH, Teagen and I drove south and picked up a washer and dryer set for $70. The funny thing it is identical to the one I sold in Georgia and I got $125 for ours. LOL. But there are hook ups at the shop so DH can wash dog towels and whatnot and I can do diapers during our days up there because disposables are obviously out.

Wamommy - How is sleep going at your house? I hope that Luca is treating you well and Max isn't too overly jealous. I bet the girls just love their new baby. I also hope that DH is pitching in more and not expecting you to do things like cook and clean.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks kellen! Great deal on the washer and dryer! Sorry the shop was so gross! Are you able to paint today?

Camden throws fits too! He doesn't understand time outs SK besides telling him 'no' I'm not sure what to do?! He pulls my hair, hits and bites during the fits!


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## Kellen

I'm not 100% sure Teagen "understands" time out, but she doesn't enjoy sitting still and only being able to look at me. Once her attitude changes or she signs sorry then I let her up. All that is after the fit.

When she is doing her impersonation of an upset octopus I either calmly wrap my arms around her so she can't move or lay her on the floor and ignore her. Once the fit is done time out happens. No use trying to make a thrashing child sit still. Other than that I try to fiture out when a fit is about to happen before it does then we can divert. It doesn't work all the time...


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## wamommy

Hello ladies!

Excuse my writing if it doesn't make sense. I'm on 2 hours sleep. :dohh:

Kellen, the shop looks so cute! I can't wait to see it after you paint. I've always had a private dream to own a shop and be my own boss. I think it's amazing that you and your DH are doing this and that your family is so supportive!! :D

Sierra, I know how hard it must be to leave Camden. I'm so sorry. :hugs: I hope a perfect solution emerges. Who knows, maybe it will surprise you and open a new door?

Dragon, I can't wait to see scan pics! I'm curious to know the gender, but I have to say that being surprised is pretty cool too!

I've been a total mess the last couple of days. DH hasn't even brought UP the baby's name since our huge fight about it. I've been hoping that he magically has a change of heart and comes to me in kindness offering to concede. It won't happen, but I really, really wish it would! My Mom is coming over this afternoon so maybe I'll breach the subject with her here. IT's more likely to be a civil talk, lol. 

I also am having gigantic Mommy guilt about Max. Last night both he and the new baby (Kellen, I LOVE that you call him Luca :) ) woke up and started screaming and I spent 3 hours going between the 2 of them trying to meet their needs while the other one screamed. When I hold or change the baby Max looks at me with the saddest eyes and I want to cry... I'm trying so hard to breastfeed and Luca is on the breast ALL day and night, so I can't pick Max up and cuddle him, or rock him to sleep like I used to. DH has been on "Max duty," but I feel like my relationship with him is suffering and it's breaking my heart. I finally woke DH up at 6am this morning bawling my eyes out asking for help, with Luca on my shoulder and Max throwing himself around screaming. I hadn't been to sleep yet. I guess I'm just feeling like a failure. I can't be a good Mom to both of them and the girls. I'm hoping it gets better, or maybe I'm just hormonal, but today is a hard day.

Adding to it all, I had a lactation consultant appointment this morning to talk about Luca's weight loss and how breastfeeding is going. She was very honest with me and told me flat out that I won't be able to exclusively breastfeed. He's lost 11% of his body weight and I only was able to feed him 1/2 ounce at a half hour feeding. He's supposed to get 22 ounces a day at his weight, so this is simply not enough. :( She told me that because of the thyroid cancer I can aim to combi-feed again, but not to bother with herbs or teas or pumping or keeping baby attached to my boob 24 hours a day. It won't work. I won't work... Needless to say I got into the car when DH came to get me and cried my eyes out. I SO wanted this. I guess it's just not in the cards for me.

I'm sorry! 
All I do is whine to you ladies lately. Things WILL turn around. I'm going to go make a decaf coffee and take a pain pill, lol.


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## Kellen

Oh, Wamommy, I wish I could just give you a hug. If it is any consolation I doubt Max will remember this time in his life. Right now you are in a huge transition going from pregnant to a mommy of FOUR! That is huge. Don't beat yourself up about breastfeeding. At least you are doing what you can and giving little Luca the best chance and all the love he needs.

The shop walls were painted today. I just spoke with DH and he thinks they will need to re-roll part of them because nicotine stains are seeping through. Eew! We are going up tomorrow and the previous owner is bringing in her dogs and going to teach me the ins and outs of running a business.

Played outside this evening with Teagen and the dog with a container of bubbles. I'm pretty sure Teagen had more fun watching the dog be crazy and jump up in the air to catch the bubbles than she did popping them. Poor kid was confused as to why they would go away.


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

I hope things get easier!

Lily woke up at 6am this morning (she usually sleeps until 8), so we were expecting her to go down earlier for a nap. I'm working from home today, and DH came into the room and told me to come look at something. He said Lily was suspiciously quiet so he went looking for her...and he found her asleep in the laundry basket! :rofl:

Her favorite blanket just came out of the wash, and she had draped herself across the basket and fell asleep. So cute.


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## SierraJourney

Oh dear wamommy---I'm sorry you've had so little sleep! I'm hoping it gets better soon! Dont' worry about Max---he'll adjust and bounce back so quickly at this age! Also, don't beat yourself up about the breastfeeding---you do what you can, and all of your children are so lovely! This time around, give yourself room to breathe, and let go of what you can't change---you don't need the added stress, and you're little Luca will be just wonderfully healthy with whatever you give him!

Dragon--that's adorable about Lily! How cute! Camden has never randomly fallen asleep ANYWHERE. .. I've always had to work at it. haha


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## SierraJourney

So. . .DH did a phone interview for a company 12 hours away and they asked him to come for an in person interview.. . meaning, if he got the job, we'd have to move. We have no family there and would basically be alone. BUT, the job would mean that I wouldn't have to work anymore and could just stay home with Camden (as long as we bought a really cheap house and lived very frugally). Now, we're wondering what to do. .. it's so hard because we don't want to move away from family, but want things to get better for my work situation and Camden's care. This would be a huge undertaking, as we'd have to buy a house, sell ours, and move 12 hours away by mid-June! 

The other option I think is staying here and DH asking his bosses for a 30% raise so we can live frugally over here (still selling our house, etc). OR, stay exactly how things are and I go crazy working and taking care of a child full time. . .

I know quite a few of you have made huge life decisions like this. . .any advice? We're so overwhelmed with all of this. . .


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## Kellen

I would first see about the raise and staying where you are, but also encourage DH to go for the interview. It may turn out to be an opportunity that he really wants to undertake. We moved to Georgia due to career opportunities and had a great few years being away from family and discovering ourselves. If you are anything like me though the thought of having someone else specifically care for Teagen on a regular basis is almost unbearable.

Dragon - That is adorable. I wish Teagen would just randomly crash. She is like the energizer bunny. She did fall asleep on her dad's lap for the first time since she was a newborn on Sunday. She was having diaper free time and he was watching tv.

We went up to the shop today. The ugly puke green walls have been replaced by a nice cream, but the paint store messed up the trim and it turn into an ugly dog poo greenish color. So for now everything is cream. Tomorrow DH is sanding all the shelves and painting them while rearranging the actual grooming area. We have the backroom set up with toys, a rug and a rocking chair.
This Saturday I am going to drive back up and Teagen and I will spend the night at the shop with DH and go to turn that evening. Then the next morning we will attend the community mother's day breakfast and handout business cards. DH and I have matching polo's with the logo I created embroidered on the pocket.

But I'm beat after a day of scrub paint splatters off of the floor and floorboards so I'm off to watch Mythbusters and fall asleep while doing so.


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## SierraJourney

Thanks Kellen! It's definitely unbearable thinking of someone else watching Camden. Monday starts the day when our neighbor will be watching Camden for 4 hours once a week. . .and I'm dreading it so much! I'm praying things will work out here soon so I can watch Camden full time.

I love that you have the back room all set up for Teagen---how awesome to be able to have her at your business!!

I hope you're taking enough time to get some rest!


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## wamommy

His name is Luca! Woohoo!!! I can't tell you how happy I am about that. Some things are just worth fighting for, and I'm so happy I chose this battle. DH chose the 2 middle names, but that's fine! :happydance:

He's like a different baby now, too. He was SO fussy and never slept the first 5 days and once I started giving him formula he actually SLEEPS an hour or 2 at a time and will let me hold him without having to be nursed 24 hours a day (literally). He must have just been starving!! Poor little guy. 

Sierra, I agree that DH should ask for a raise but still pursue other options, just in case. Once everything's on the table it will be easier to choose the best path. 

Kellen, the shop sounds amazing! How cool that Teagen has her own "office." :) I can't wait to see the final pics!

Dragon, quick question. You had mastitis with the twins, right? What were the early signs? I think I may have it coming on. There's a big pink/red spot on the side that is hot and hurts like the dickens!

Luca is sleeping, so I'm off to take Max in the playroom for make-a-giant-mess time. :haha:


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## wamommy

I thought I'd add a couple of pics! Here's Luca yesterday and Max falling asleep at the table!
 



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## SierraJourney

Yay yay yay yay yay!!! That's wonderful wamommy!! I am so incredibly happy for you!! Yay Luca! And yay happy baby!!

Thanks for the advice. Dh is applying for jobs as we speak. 

And I had mastitis several times and plugged ducts tons! Plugged ducts were big red spots that hurt tons... sounds like what you have. I applied warm washcloths to the area, then firmly and very hardly pressed and pushed my fingers from behind the red spot all the way to the nipple-- I did this for days sometimes. This hurts so bad i almost always cried. :( In the shower helps or while nursing... you're basically forcing the clog and all the milk behind it out.. sometimes it even comes out very thickly!! Mastitis was a much larger red spot and I has unbelievable chills and fevers. Only antibiotics from my doctor helped that. I'd talk to your dr about it just in case. Either one-- they both hurt sooooooo much! I feel for you!! It's awful!!


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## SierraJourney

Oh ! They are so very precious!!!! Absolutely gorgeous!


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## Kellen

Hooray for Luca and hooray for happy, sleeping babies! But boo on painful breasts. I am thankful that I never had a plugged duct or mastitis. The pictures are adorable.

Today was a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day and I'm moving to Australia sans child. We have 4 molars coming in and Teagen was a monster all day. Nothing anyone did could please her. The only time she wasn't yelling at me or tearing something apart was when I could get DH to facetime with us over the phone.

So we have run into a sort of snag with our business... When we bought it we had it put into the contact that if there were any outstanding loans, liens or debts that the prior owners would be required to pay them. We also purchased the company name. However, they had let the LLC lapse and needed to pay the state $300 to make it active again. They agreed however.... I received a call from the bank that we are setting up our business account with saying that the LLC name is inactive according to state records. And now the prior owners are refusing to answer our phone calls.

On the up side they did send their handyman in with the password for the computer. We've been trying to get into the computer for the past 5 days and they "couldn't remember the password." They magically remembered today. However, they let that account lapse too so we'll be paying some $700 over the next 5 months to get it back up and running. :dohh:

What with teeth and people being shiesty my neck feels like it is made of concrete. And I am in a wedding next Saturday which means I get to drive my mom, Teagen and myself 8 hours south to San Fran for two days and then turn around. All the while driving 90 minutes north a couple of times to give supplies to DH, met with an insurance rep, open a bank account and promote our business. I feel exhausted just thinking of all that needs to be done. Plus I need to do schoolwork for tonight and I have a paper due the Sunday after the wedding. Oh joy... Apologies for the long rant.


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## DragonflyWing

That's a lot to deal with, Kellen! :hugs: I hope the previous owners start taking your calls, and that your trip isn't too stressful. 

wamommy, so glad about Luca! When I had mastitis, it started out at night with a very sore spot that felt like a bruise. By the morning, I had a high fever and chills, and a large red area on my breast that was warm to the touch, lumpy, and very painful. I think if you don't have a fever, it's probably just a plugged duct, but that can turn into mastitis if left untreated. When I had a blocked duct, I had the best luck using a heating pad on it at night...I usually woke up with a soaked nightgown because the duct had drained while I slept.


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## wamommy

Oh, Kellen... that's a lot to deal with!! I can't imagine the stress you're under. I hope Teagen gives you a break and that the previous owners of the shop pull their head out! I can't stand that kind of behavior. It will be nice once everything is truly transferred over and you don't have to deal with them at all anymore. I'm jealous of your trip to San Francisco, though! My Mom got her doctorate degree there (San Francisco Theological Seminary) and so we spent summers there growing up while she finished up her degree. I LOVED it. 

Thank you for the mastitis tips, ladies! I think it must be just a clogged duct because I don't have a fever. :shrug: I massaged the 2 spots in the shower today and it helped a lot. I'll definitely try the heating pad tonight, too.

My brother is getting married tomorrow and we have to drive 2 hours each way with the kids. :dohh: It's mostly Luca I'm worried about. I don't want to expose him to all of those people! Just imagining how many people will touch his face and hands gives me cold chills, lol. I'm trying to think of a nice way to say, "back up!! He's one week old and doesn't need you breathing on him!" :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen--how stressful! :hugs: I hope it gets a lot better for you very soon! And I hope your trip is wonderful! Maybe the wedding will be a much needed break!

wamommy---my sister went to a family reunion right after her baby was born---she simply told everyone that NO ONE was allowed to touch her--they could look but couldn't touch. People really respected that, which was surprising in my family, but I think people understand how fragile new little babies are. I'd just tell them NO! You're the mom. . your rules. :)


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## DragonflyWing

Happy mother's day :)


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## DragonflyWing

So I just encountered a strange bit of sychronicity. I just had to share.

I went to get lunch and brought it back to eat at my desk. As I sat down, I noticed I got an email saying that an accounting firm I've never heard of would be auditing some of our claims. Not thinking anything of it, I turned to my lunch and started reading my book, which is a murder mystery. I turned to the next page, and one of the characters works for the SAME ACCOUNTING FIRM that I just found out would be auditing our claims. I've never heard of them in my life...how weird is that??


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## Kellen

Happy Belated Mother's Day!

Things are crazy, but good here. We ended up driving to and from Seattle yesterday to pick up a really nice camera my BIL is loaning us for the business. It was a long drive, but we made it. We officially open our doors tomorrow. 

Teagen is still teething like mad. Only one of the four molars has even peaked through the gum yet. Right now she is napping while we wait for our dog treat lady to come stock a display she is renting from us. 

The rest of the week is going to be insane as I head down to the wedding with my mom and Teagen. Just found out last night that a person I am not on speaking terms with will probably be there. He used to be a fairly good friend until he made fun of a video of Reagen learning to walk. I am fairly tolerant of a lot, but when you bring my child into it be prepared to lose. But at least his date is one of my best friends and I can have her run interference.


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## helena

Hope the wedding was good wamommy!
How was your first open day at the business Kellen?


Kiara is officially talking. In so far she is saying "no" a lot! That, tractor and shoe are her full repertoire. But mostly she likes "no". Loudly.


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## wamommy

Happy belated Mother's Day to all of you!! I hope you were all pampered. :)

I hope the opening day went well, Kellen! I imagine you're still gone to San Fran. You are a braver woman than I to make that drive! How did it go?

Dragon, that is a weird coincidence! I like that kind of thing. It makes you wonder how much of life is random, ya know?

Helena, it's so cute that Kiara says, "no!" Max just grunts and shakes his head for No... lol. His main words are stop, bop (as in hit his sisters on the head and yell BOP!), cat, mama, dada, baba, and a few others that are inconsistent or just sounds he made up to go along with certain objects. :haha: I'm not super worried about his vocabulary, since he seems to understand what we're saying. Maybe he just has a hard time with making his mouth create the sound. :shrug:

The wedding was a mix of amazing and totally stressful, but I'm really glad I went. My sister was there, who I haven't seen in 2 years. It was also SO cool to see my "little" brother (he's 6'4") get married. Only my Mom and sister were allowed to hold Luca, and enough time has passed that I think we're safe from him getting sick. DH got upset with me and yelled at me the entire 2-hour drive home, and then punished me for daring to enjoy a family event by not doing ANYTHING for mother's day, not even a card. :( I woke up with the kids, cooked the meals and did the dishes. Watch, he'll expect me to pull out all the stops for Father's Day, haha! I did get a gorgeous tile with a hand print that my DD made in Kindergarten, which I adore.

There's good news on the baby front, though. We had a 2-week appointment on Tuesday and Luca has gained a full pound and grown an INCH since starting to supplement with formula. :happydance: He's so much more alert now. Poor guy was just hungry! He actually sleeps for an hour (or 2!) straight too, which he didn't do the first week because he was always nursing. 

I'm going to run out and enjoy the sunshine! I hope you are all doing well :)


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, I'm sorry your DH was a jerk. That's pretty awful that he didn't do anything for Mother's day and made you do all the work. If I were you, I wouldn't do a single thing for Father's day unless your kids request something specific.

That's great that Luca is putting on weight so quickly and sleeping more! :)

I didn't get anything for Mother's day from my DH, either. However, he did let me sleep in, which was nice. He said he planned on getting a great gift and a card, but his plans got messed up and he didn't get a chance. Oh, well.

Had my 12 week ultrasound today! Baby is 6cm from head to rump, and was jumping around. The pictures were really fuzzy and hard to make out, but I'll see if I can upload some later. The doctor said everything looks fine, nuchal fold was well within normal (1.7mm, I think?). I was hoping they might be able to guess the gender, or that I'd see a nub, but no such luck!


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## DragonflyWing

Here are the blurry photos. The first one is the profile, the second is straight on at the face. Little alien!
 



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## Kellen

Brief check in from San Fran. Dragon the profile ultrasound is too cute. Wamommy you need to kick DH to the curb. That is unacceptable behavior. 

The wedding is crazy. Teagen is asleep and I am soon to follow. It was long drive with many stops as my mom can only sit for an hour at a time due to her recent hip and knee replacements. The wedding is at noon tomorrow which stinks because that is nap time. Looks like I will probably come back to the hotel with Teagen and join the reception later. 

The first two days were awesome, the second two have been slow. However, we now have custom dog treats made by a local lady for sale in our shop. She makes her own cookie cutters so they are shaped as paws and say "Paw" for PawPrints Grooming. DH misses Teagen and I fiercely. Depending on when we get back to Oregon is when we will go up again. I think on the way home we will go the longer coast route and stay the night somewhere. At least the drive will be more entertaining than bleak farm land, hay fields and rice patties.


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## wamommy

Dragon, what cute pictures!! I'm going on record now saying it's a boy. :)

Kellen, the drive sounds tough! I would definitely take the coastal route home. The Redwood forest is one of my favorite places on earth. There is such magic in trees! I hope the wedding goes well. I found that my "role" in weddings is now completely different. Everyone else dances and drinks wine during the reception, while I sip decaf and smell tiny butts to see who needs a change! :dohh: Do what you need to do and what you think is best for Teagen. They'll understand, and if they don't, meh.


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## helena

"Smelling tiny butts...". Hehe. I am still trying to work out how to subtly sniff to see if we need a change. I bet to non mums I look gross holding up my baby to sniff in public!! Haha


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## DragonflyWing

lol @ smelling tiny butts! :haha: so true.

I had an OB check up today, and the doctor asked me if I was planning to have a repeat c-section, or if I wanted a vbac. DH and I had decided we'd probably have a repeat c-section, but now I'm not sure! It might be really difficult to recover from surgery while taking care of two toddlers and a new baby. With the twins, they were in the NICU for 4 weeks, so I had all the time in the world to recover before they came home. Of course, this time we're hoping for no NICU time and for the baby to come home at the same time as me. 

Also, I kind of want to experience labor. It might sound weird, but I'm interested to see how I'd handle the pain and if I could do it without an epidural. 

By biggest fear, though, is tearing and/or urinary incontinence issues. My mom ended up with severe stress incontinence and a prolapse years after having my sister (she was over 9lbs)...and I'm so afraid to mess things up down there! :haha: Is that silly? I'm really not sure what to do!


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## wamommy

Dragon, I totally get wanting to experience labor. I also understand the fear of prolapse or incontinence. I think every woman's anatomy is different, and it totally depends on the shape of your body whether or not you'll have an issue. Luca was 9 pounds and I barely tore and I haven't had any problems at all (with any of the kids) with incontinence or prolapse. My Mom, on the other hand, still has to cross her legs when she sneezes or she'll wee a little, lol. I would discuss it with your OB and ask (based on your history and anatomy) what they would recommend. I still can't believe you're having another one! What's your due date?


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## DragonflyWing

My due date is November 24th :)

Haha, I already have to brace myself before I sneeze with a full bladder, or I might pee a little! I've had minor issues with urge incontinence and bladder spasms since I was a little kid, but it's fine as long as I don't hold it too long. 

Another consideration is that I get an additional 2 weeks off from work if I have a c-section- 8 weeks instead of 6 weeks. However, that might not matter much if I'm spending that time recovering instead of enjoying the new baby. There are too many factors to consider!


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## helena

My c section rcoveries were easy. So you know. Even with my other children. The incision is so low that even when they sit on your knee for cuddles it's ok. Especially with a pillow for padding.
It helps to plan ahead with things like high hairs they can climb into themselves (or a low down table and child chair). Each time I had another baby I got my two year old booster chairs instead of high chairs. They could climb up with a step no problem. I bet even earlier it would be easy enough.
I had help for a week or two but was then doing everything I had to with my boys.

Before Kiara was born by c sec I went into labour for a couple of hours. I have no idea how far along I was before the emergency section, but the pains I had were no fun I can tell you....experiencing labour could be highly overrated ;) 

Baby will be a very cute size for Christmas :)


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## Kellen

Congrats on your due date. It almost makes me want to start TTC, but then I remember we just bought a business. 

Teagen is the world's worst tether. All four of her molars are on the way and she is miserable. If we aren't touching she is screaming. The top two have pierced the gum, but the bottom two are almost ready to pop through as well. No sign of her incisors yet which seems a little odd to me. 

So glad the wedding is over. It was a really long trip. I ended up forgetting my computer at the hotel with all my school work on it. Thankfully I remembered and was able to contact the hotel and have my friend retrieve it. This week we have done more business and outreach. Tuesday night we had five dogs walk in at 4 (we typically close at 6). But we got them done. Yesterday we closed early and went to the dog park. Teagen loved it. She has two back rooms that we toddler proofed and a baby gate so she can watch us and look at the dogs. 

She desperately wants to start talking. The other might she woke me up giggling and then speaking: c-c-cooooow. DOG. Gog. Guck. Cock. Really child? I had shown her a picture of a peacock so now cock is on of her favorite sounds... Great.


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## DragonflyWing

Haha that's adorable! Both the twins say "cracker," but it sounds like "cock-a"...and they REALLY love crackers, so they say it a lot! :haha:

Lily has been putting some words together this week. We have some houseguests right now, and they have a 6 month old baby. We have been explaining to the twins that they have to be quiet when the baby is sleeping. Last night, DH laughed loudly at something, and Lily held her finger to her lips and said "Shhhhh! Baby night-night!"


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## SierraJourney

Hi all! Wanted to drop in---we've all been sick with a nasty nasty stomach flu (I had to go to the ER because I was so dehydrated that my heartrate skyrocketed!) We are much better now but it was awful. :( 

Camden is getting his molars, too---one top one has popped through and the rest of his gums are horribly swollen. .. poor guy. :(

We're debating on whether to go in for his first haircut this weekend. I just want to let it grow, but it's hanging in his eyes now. . .and I feel bad because that has to be so annoying for him. :(

No talking here yet.. . except for "Muh", which means "Up". lol


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## DragonflyWing

Oh, no, that sounds terrible Sierra! I'm so sorry you were so sick. Ugh, stomach viruses are the _worst_. I'm glad you're doing better now.


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm glad you're feeling better! SO not fun. :hugs: I hope you're getting a chance to rest and take care of yourself.

No molars are coming in yet here, at least not that I can tell. Max has been SUPER fussy though, so maybe they're getting close? We have huge news, though! Max walked across the living room on his own this morning!! It was probably 10 steps. :D I think we've crossed over and he'll start to walk now... finally! I put up gates in our sunken living room so that Max has a completely safe and confined place to play without being told "no" every 2 seconds. I think that made all of the difference! 

In not-so-great news, DH's aunt passed away in Hawaii (where his family is all from) and he has to go back for the funeral. He's going for a WEEK and I have no idea how I'm going to manage here with 4 kids alone. I might have to stop being a martyr and actually call people to come help me. I don't even know how I'm going to shower! Ugh...


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## helena

Taegen and her cock sounds did make me laugh!
Seems there are some good words coming out.
We are still stuck on no, tractor, dada and night night.not a mama in sight....

Sierra, so glad you are better. Bleurgh x

Oh wamommy, a week? I am sorry, but it's his aunt....you are his family with four kids, he can't go for that long can he?? Baby is so small still.. Call in all help you can. Wish I could join for a few play dates x
Well done walking Max! He decided its time to be big brother I bet, show baby bro how it's done. Well done!!

We have all our first molars (ner ner...lol) but Kiara is coming down with a cold :( it's almost June, I hoped these bugs would have flown off by now! :( she keeps ending up in our bed, not sleeping great and being tired and moody by day. It's 9.43 am and she is already napping....will make for a very long afternoon if she doesn't have a second nap!!


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## Kellen

Sierra - Glad to hear that you and Camden are on the way to recovery. How is the job situation working out? Has he started to try to take any steps?

Wamommy - I feel for you. But huzzah for Max stepping up his game as big brother and beginning to walk.

Helena - Poor Kiara. I hope she starts to feel better soon. But send some of that teething mojo this way. I am done having a whiny, clingy baby.

All 8 tips of the molars have arrived, but her gums are still bleeding as they push through. Thankfully she is still sleeping from 8pm to 5am without waking. The past two nights nursing has been too exciting for her and I put her in her crib where she settled herself to sleep without a fuss. Awesome!

Business is picking. We have an employee that is on loan to us from the local jobs counsel. She has never had a job before, but she gets credit for working with us and we provide something to put on a resume and a letter of reference if requested. Today was her first day and she was a huge help. Right off the bat we had two cat shave downs, a geriatric bath dog, a recently adopted dog and then two shih tzu's this afternoon. Tomorrow we have another cat shave down, a self bathing Husky and a Peekanese already on the books.

We took Teagen to the ocean yesterday. It started out as a trip to Dairy Queen, but we drove an extra 50 miles to let her run on the beach. She had been to the Pacific Ocean before, but she was only 9 months at the time. There were lots of dogs and kids so she thoroughly enjoyed herself. DH accidentally dunked her in a tide pool because it was deeper than he had thought. Thankfully I always keep at least two sets of clean clothes in the car for Teagen.


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! Thanks so much for your warm thoughts. We've recouped quite well, and feel pretty much back to normal. I'm battling an awful rash on Camden's bum, which I think might be yeast?! It's starting to look better, so hopefully it's clearing up!

Kellen---I'm so happy your business is picking up--that sounds terrific! And how fun! I'm really jealous that you get to go to the ocean--I've been to the ocean maybe 3 times in my entire life. . .and would love to live closer to it!

wamommy--I agree. . .that's an awfully long time for DH to be gone and leave you with such a little one and 3 other children! Get all of the help you can, and while you're at it, get a more considerate DH! ;) Also, congrats on Max learning to walk! What a big boy!! 

With all of the sickness and everything going on here, I'm not sure if I mentioned that Camden is finally walking! It's been about 3 weeks now, and he is loving his freedom! He has gotten so adventurous--it's adorable! We went to a spray park the other day (not sure if those are that common or not, but around here, it's basically a bunch of different sized fountains shooting up from the cement that kids get to run through)--Camden LOVED it, and was running right through the water, not a fear in the world! So precious. I'm really thankful that it's finally summer. :)

In all of t


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## helena

We have a spray park nearby. My kids love it. And I love it as thy can get wet and have fun and no risk of drowning. Kiara loved it too but just stands at the edge of a fountain moving her hands from low down to up high making whooshing noises.
Well done Camden on walking! And for going right on in to the water :)

Dragon - I loved Lilly telling daddy to shhh. Clever girl.

Xx


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## Kellen

We don't have a spray park here, but we accidentally stopped at one on the way back from the wedding. Thankfully Teagen was more entranced with the swings at the park next door and didn't insist upon getting wet. She does however think it is the funniest thing when we have the water hose out and the dog attacks the stream of water.

The molars are still being stubborn. I caught a look at one of the bottoms ones this morning. It looks like the whole tooth is up, but the gum hasn't split yet. It is all bloody and swollen, but not popped out. Ouch! No wonder she has been grumpy.

This was a good week for the business. Oddly enough Friday and Saturday are the two slowest days. But we are making it financially and are happier in our marriage and family relationships than at any other time. Tonight we will go to church. We found a church that has Saturday evening services and nursery provided. Teagen absolutely LOVES to go. The first time we visited she tried to lead me back as we were walking out the door. Last week we were a little early and the worker hadn't arrived so we were walking around and visiting. Well, Teagen caught sight of the lady who runs the nursery and jumped out of DH's arm and ran to follow her to the nursery.

After church tonight we are going back down to our semi-permanent home. I am excited about not sleeping on an air mattress tonight and taking a real shower. I know Teagen will have a good time visiting with her grandparents and dog. DH and I have been looking at property around here and as soon as business really picks up we will use his VA loan to buy a place. There is a nice house 3 bed 2 bath on 22 acres for 179,000 that we are interested in. It is a short sale so if it is still available in a few months we will try to offer them 138,000.


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## helena

22 acres!!!! Woweeeee! We have a garden of about 1000m2 and here that is pretty big!! Keeps us so busy.
Oh I would love that kind of space. Definately a sit on mower required :)

Great that Taegan loves church nursery! It's also super great to read you and DH are doing so great right now xx


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## wamommy

Yay Camden for walking!! :D Just in time for summer. The world is so much more fun to explore when you can charge clumsily around. :haha: It's so fun to watch Max be incredibly pleased with himself for the most simple discoveries, like the fact that grass comes OUT of the ground if you pull!

Kellen, the property you and DH are looking at sounds amazing. Lucky Teagen! 

I've been off the grid for a week or so with the flu... can you believe it? I got the flu shot, yet I got terribly sick and was quickly followed by all of my kids except Max! I'm really glad that Max didn't get it, but wowzers, life is tough with 3 sick kids while I feel like I'm breathing through a straw and someone beat my entire body with tiny hammers! I'm hoping it breaks soon, since I'm going on a week of being sick. :( 

I'm off to start dinner! I hear Max screaming in the other room with DH (who is on the phone) and I'm tempted to go rescue him, but the idea of cooking with TWO screaming babies sounds like a nightmare. DH will have to figure it out... :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that house and acreage sounds so lovely! I'm very jealous! 

wamommy--so sorry you all have been sick! How awful! :( I'd say DH should take both screaming babies AND cook YOU dinner! Hmphh! :hugs:

Is anyone else struggling with their lo hiting/biting/pulling hair/pinching? I'm getting really worried about Camden because whenever he is frustrated especially, he'll just be down right mean---he grabs faces and pinches and hits and pulls my hair and just gets so awful. He even does this when he is happy! We've tried telling him no very sternly, putting him in time out, just leaving him to cool off by himself, etc. . .nothing has worked, and it seems to be getting worse. It is mostly with DH and I (and especially me!), but he even pinched my sister the other day! He seriously acts out like this maybe 15-20 times a day. . .I'm not sure exactly what it is. He has a dr. appt on Thursday, so I'll ask the doctor then, but it's just getting so out of control. . . Some days I feel it must be my parenting because he's just so bad, and other days I wonder if he has something wrong with him that's causing him to act out so much. It awful. . . I literally get bite marks and red spots from him "beating me up" all day long. . .Is this anything you guys' go through with your lo's? Or do you think he has some sort of behavioral issue this young? Or am I just not being stern enough with him? I'm so out of answers, and DH is equally frustrated. :(


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## Kellen

Wamommy - So sorry you have been sick! I agree with Sierra that DH should have been the one juggling multiple children and cooking dinner. Or you could tell him it was a YOYO night (you're on your own) and only fix the kids dinner.

Sierra - It sounds like Camden is frustrated and doesn't know any other way to communicate with you. Teagen has recently entered the hitting stage and throwing stage and whining stage. I have to constantly remind her that she does know sign and if she needs to tell me something to either "please use signs or words." I seriously repeat that around 100 times a day.

The molars FINALLY broke through, now they are just continuing to emerge. Thankfully she is back to sleeping all night and taking two hour continuous naps from 11:30 to 1:30. Pretty soon I think she'll be able to lay herself down for naps and semi-bedtime with still nursing during story time and then laying down.

I am excited. I have been invited to join a MOPs group by a lady at church (Mothers of Preschoolers). They meet every Wednesday at 9:30 at the park that is two blocks from our shop. Since moving Teagen has had way more interaction with small people and I think it is great for her. I believe we are also reaching the stage where it would be good for her to go to preschool for a couple hours once or twice a week. And it would give me the ability to actually get things done on the office side of the business. A local preschool has just opened up enrollment for fall so I think I will check them out and ask at the meet up tomorrow.

DH got a call for an interview for a shipping job today. He initially accepted the interview, but then thought better and will call to cancel tomorrow. It stressed me so badly that I ended up in tears after our employee went home.


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## helena

Don't feel its you Sierra. It's just kids. One of many phases.
Kids, especially boys I think, just do hit. It gets attention, reaction and releases frustration...it could be years until they get the idea it's not nice. My boys fight physically all the time. Drives me nuts. I am always shouting "stop that...that hurts him...that's being a bully...that's not nice, say sorry....stop it...". They carry on.....
My paediatrician told me some kids don't develop empathy until they are much older..like 8 or so..there are always phases to make us feel bad or guilty. I think being guilty is a massive part of motherhood no one warns us about!

For the record Kiara hurt me on purpose for the first time today. I think boys are much worse physically though. Or my two are?!
Xxx


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## SierraJourney

Thank you ladies--that makes me feel so much better! He's the first boy in our family, so compared to my nieces, he's just plain "mean" at this stage! Nice to hear that your boys are rough, too, Helena---though I can empathize with the pain! 

Kellen--congrats on joining MOPS--that sounds fun! Camden's molars are all poked out now too, though I still think he's in a lot of pain because he's still so swelled where they are. :( Molars have been, by far, just the hardest teeth. . .:(


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## Kellen

We'll see if MOPs happens today. Right now DH is blow drying one dog and as soon as he is done I have one to dry as well. Then a small bath dog is scheduled for 9. After that two more dogs come in at 10 and then a groom at 11. Then we have a break until 1 when two more bath dogs come in and another groom at 2. Thankful for the business, but I want to go hang out with moms. We run an awesome Wed bath special though so I'm not too surprised at the number of tiny dogs coming to get washed.


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## wamommy

Kellen, LOL about a YOYO dinner. I like that idea! I hope you're able to make the MOPS group. That sounds awesome! We have one that meets a couple of minutes from our house, but I've always MEANT to go and never have. :( I say, do it! There's nothing quite like the support and companionship of other women, especially Moms. I think it would be great for you. I'm glad to hear your business is doing so well, but an hour or two off to yourself can't hurt!

Sierra, I have been surprised how different Max is from my girls in a ton of different ways. He's way more Smash'em, Crash'em, and he grunts and growls in ways that make me laugh. I think Helena and Kellen are right that he's probably just frustrated that he can't communicate with you. Once he can ask for what he wants it will probably get better. What I do with Max is pretend to cry, or that he REALLY hurt me, and he'll stop and look really sad. I also repeat, "use your words, Max... what do you need?" over and over throughout the day. Most of the time he can't say it, but at least he knows what will help. :shrug: Hang in there!

Luca is smiling now! :D This morning when I was holding him and checking out his gorgeous eyes (which are staying blue, I think!) he gave me the biggest, broadest, most amazing grin! :) Somehow all is right with the world in the shadow of a baby smile.


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## SierraJourney

Oh wamommy---congrats on Luca smiling!! How perfectly wonderful! 

I'm so glad to hear that you notice a difference with Max than girls, too. Makes me feel better. Also makes me realize I don't need to be so hard on him if he is just frustrated---poor guy. He hardly has any words (except for "Muh", which means "up"). . .so he HAS to be so irritated that we don't understand him! :(


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## wamommy

When Max gets frustrated he doesn't hit, but he has a full-body meltdown. He flaps his arms like a bird and kicks his feet. It's actually pretty funny, lol... DH calls him "flappy bird." Lately he'll do this for a few seconds (including the most annoying 'uh uh uh uh uh" sound) and then he'll blurt out a random word. For instance... We're sitting at the table for lunch yesterday and he starts flapping. I said, "what do you need, Max? Use your words." He points feverishly at my cup and says, "Uh uh uh uh uh, POP!" :dohh: Great.


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## SierraJourney

Haha wamommy---that's awesome! Camden will throw fits like that too--especially if we pick him up and take him away from something, he'll flail and kick his legs in the arm like he's running away. . .so funny. what an age!


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## DragonflyWing

I agree that boys seem to be much more rough and tumble, and seem to lash out more than most girls. Gunnar has been hitting and shoving lately, but he does it more to Lily than to me or DH. For a little while, he was pulling my hair when he got angry, but I pulled his right back to show him that it hurts...and that seemed to make sense to him, and he stopped.

Poor Lily gets the worst of it. She'll just be minding her own business, walk past him, and he'll grab the back of her shirt and yank her off her feet. Or he'll shove her to the floor and steal whatever toy she's holding. He gets put in time-out, and he has to give back whatever he stole from her, but it doesn't seem to deter him. It happens so frequently that Lily runs away yelling "no! no!" anytime he comes near her. What a little bully!

They do occasionally play nicely together, though. Yesterday they were both in time out, and they passed the time by making faces and giggling at each other. The other day, they were chasing each other trying to kiss each other! :haha:


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## helena

Loving the baby grin image xxxx

I wouldn't expect it to get better when Camden can communicate...hope but don't expect...my almost six year old still growls at me. And my three year old spat pasta at me today..

Going back to empathy...it's so strange how some kids develop it earlier.. My almost six year old just doesn't put himself in others shoes yet. He is too busy barging straight ahead through life like a stampeding bull. My three year old however (also full of beans and busy all the time) will stop and ask me if I am sad if I have a face on.., or give me cuddles to make things better. Genes are funny things. 

And if one child doesn't have empathy when another does, especially someone else's kids, it can make us feel quite bad....like our kids are out of control. But they aren't. They are kids. .... I read this recently, kind of interesting..https://www.umbrelr.com/young-mother-giving-kids-dont-blame-her/

She is far too smug but I agree with some of her points.

And very good for mums of boys...... https://www.scarymommy.com/10-things-moms-of-boys-must-do/


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## wamommy

:rofl: Helena, the post on boys was hilarious! My little guys are still too little for most to apply, but I grew up with brothers and laughed, because most of that blog is so true! 

Dragon, the twins sound hilarious! I bet there's never a dull moment at your house. 

Helena, your little one sounds so sweet! I also like your point about empathy. Kids really are different in that respect. If there's one thing I've learned about kids it's that they are on their own timeline and are truly their own little people. We can guide and encourage them a lot, but their personalities come to us pre-formed. I think back to when I was 21 and a baby would cry throughout a meal at a restaurant (or god forbid, a toddler had a tantrum!!) and I would think to myself, "how could that parent let that child act out and 'ruin' everyone's meal??" :haha: Now I feel like such a jerk for ever thinking that!


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## DragonflyWing

We're having a language explosion in our house! Lily, especially, is suddenly enunciating really well, and learning multiple new words every day. She had about 25 words two weeks ago, and now I'd estimate she is close to 50! Gunnar is learning new words too, but slightly slower. 

For the longest time, they would just say the first syllable of most words, so monkey was "muh" and daddy was "dah," but now Lily is saying "monkey" and "daddy" perfectly. :) They will both try to repeat any word you say, and they usually remember it after a few repetitions. It's so awesome!

16 weeks today! I'm trying to decide if I'm going to spring for a private gender scan, or if I can make myself wait another 4 weeks for the anatomy scan. It's so hard to be patient!


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## wamommy

16 weeks already?? Wow! Time is seriously flying by. How are you feeling? What gender do you think baby is?


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## Kellen

Hello Everyone,

Wamommy - Congrats on the Luca smile. That is so special. I'm glad that he is being a good boy for you. How is the sleep issue in your house coming along?

Helena - Thank you for the interesting insight. 

Dragon - 16 weeks! Wow! Time is flying by. I love all the words your twins are saying. That must be so exciting.

Teagen is napping right now. For the past three days she has gotten up at 6:21 on the dot and is back to two naps per day. I think she is probably going through a growth spurt as she consumed anything and everything.

Not a lot of words here, but tons of signs. Last night we were coming home from the park (which she attempts to finger spell since there isn't a sign for park... she has the "p" and the "a" down, but gets lost at the "r" and "k") and I wanted to show DH the roping arena just off the path. It turned out to be practice night for the local women's horse club. Teagen was enthralled and signing "horse" the entire time. Of course now my family wants to buy her a Welsh Pony so she can start riding. Given that we have all the tack and gear that would be cool, but where would it live? My bathtub?

What are everyone's plans for Father's Day? I think we are going camping at the beach or the lake. DH just wants to get away for a little bit and be in nature. The next weekend is the big four zero birthday for him. We will actually be at a local event called "Woofstock" and hopefully gain more customers.


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## wamommy

I just got home from dropping DH at the airport. He'll be gone until next Tuesday! I was upset that he was leaving until this morning, when he yelled at me for an hour straight (in front of the girls) about how I dared to ask for time to shower before we left. I never did get to shower. Right now I'm actually relieved that he's gone!! To think, I get a week without being yelled at. :D I may not be sleeping or showering for the week... but it will honestly be amazing to be DH free. That's so sad to say!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - I'm sorry you won't have a shower, but I'm glad that you get a break from being yelled at. No one, no matter who they are or what age they are needs to be yelled at. I hope that this break gives you the confidence boost you need to make some changes. At least you are off the hook for Father's Day!


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## SierraJourney

Yay for a break wamommy! I hope you are enjoying it! And hey---I say if you are just home with all of the kids, who needs a shower anyways?! No one to impress! ;)


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## helena

Hi all,
I hope everyone is ok.
Especially you wamommy, home with four kiddos and having been shouted at. Your DH needs to have a big think about his attitude I say. Sorry.
I hope your time with the kids goes ok. I often find that while it is so hard being at home with my three, that somehow things go more smoothly... Hope that's the same for you.
I say get a picnic in a bag (like a super easy one...a bag of sandwiches and a box of biscuits!) and get those beautiful kids to a park where you can let them run wild and tire them out so they all sleep perfectly x x x x 

Dragon, the time has flown!! I am voting boy. Xxxx

Here Kiara is saying things a little more clearly but only a little. But she has really cracked the word "duck". Her comforter is a little duck and she so loves it! She has also discovered being naughty. She pinches her brothers then laughs when I say no. Monkey.

My new avatar is her eating cherries from the tree in our garden yesterday. She loves them!

Her favourite snack at the moment is crab sticks.
And she is sleeping great 8-7.30 with just a few cries in her sleep every now and then. Perfect. Hope I haven't jinxed it now!.....
Doh 

I have been feeling a little stressed. Mum seems a little confud lately, forgetting things that just happened earlier that day or a day or so ago. Am hoping it is just tiredness from her chemo and not the brain tumour growing. She also has pains in her ribcage which I am terrified are her liver tumours.....it's so scary. 
She sent me a photo of her taken today though and she looks good. So that has helped a little.

I think I am comfort eating. DH is out and I just ate a whole pizza. Had half a pizza with him yesterday. And a whole one the day before!!! I must try harder to vary my diet! Lol.
And too much wine...ops. But when in France........ It's all so cheap, and nice!..
Xx


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## Kellen

Helena - That is an adorable picture of Kiara. She looks so grown up and is certainly enjoying those cherries.

Wamommy - At least you have had a shower. LOL. I hope this time away from DH actually gives you a bit of a vacation.

A little whine here: I have a blood blister on my nipple and it hurts like the dickens! I blame a bad latch due to molars coming in. She keeps trying to feel them with her tongue while nursing, which isn't really possible without causing me loads of pain. But... she only does it on one side. The other side she latches normally and causes no pain.

Anyways... I'm tired and going to go to bed. Have a good weekend everyone! We have a full day tomorrow with one cat and four dogs already on the books...


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## helena

Ouch Kellen!! Wow, nursing seems so long ago to me!
I nursed my first until 17 months, but only 3 months each for my second two. So it seems an age ago! How long are planning to keep nursing?
I kind of wish I had carried on longer for purely selfish reasons - it was such a great weight loss tool for me first time around!! I could hardly eat enough :)


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## wamommy

Ouch, Kellen. I hope you heal quickly! :hugs: I was packing up my breast pump and getting it ready for a new home just yesterday. It was a bit sad, but kind of awesome too. The breast pump and I have always had a love/hate relationship, and part of me is glad to see it go! That said, I still get a twinge of sadness every time Luca nuzzles like he wants to nurse and I know he can't... :( Good for you for nursing so long! 

Helena, Kiara is SO cute in your avatar! What a sweet girl. :) I'm sorry to hear your Mom is seeming off. I can't imagine how hard that is! You have every right to comfort eat. That, and pizza is tasty, lol. I still have 15 pounds to lose to get down to pre-Max weight... urgh.

We're surviving here, believe it or not! I've finally found a rhythm that works for us and today has been fairly smooth. I'm beginning to actually enjoy it! Grandma came down today and is outside gardening our much-neglected yard with the girls as we speak. 

Max is LOVING DH being gone because I let him get away with everything... :haha: I think it's good for him though. His language and physical ability are growing exponentially. He's started using a bunch of new words (ball, bear, help, hot) and he can run and kick a ball now! I've taken Helena's advice and let the kids loose at a park where the girls could play and slide and Max could explore the grass field. He ate bird poop, but it could have been worse. :dohh:


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## wamommy

Oops! I forgot to mention that Max had his 15 month appointment (a month late because his Dr was out of town) last week and he seems super healthy. My only concern is that he is 12th percentile for height and *90th* for weight!! Poor little bowling ball. I blame his giant head for the extra weight. :haha:


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## helena

Oh heads are indeed heavy!! Hahaha, lovely little chunk. It's good to have a bit of extra weight at this age surely.
Glad to hear you are coping well.
Bird poop....who worries about bird poop!? Lol. Xx


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## Kellen

Wamommy - I am so glad that you have developed a happy routine and that Max is thriving without DH. I might hazard a guess that this helps you with future decisions knowing that your kiddos can survive and thrive with just mommy and other family around.

Helena - I don't know how long we'll go with nursing. At first I said 18 months. Then bumped it back to two years after reading the WHO recommendations. Now I'm up in the air and will probably allow Teagen to self-wean sometime after two. Right now we are practicing don't ask don't offer, but she wants to nurse every 15 to 45 minutes :dohh: But I agree that it is a fantastic way to stay slim. I weigh less now than I did before she was born.

Today was a tough one. Teagen was super clingy from the moment she woke up. We had three dogs come in this morning so I ended up putting Teagen in the Ergo so she could be on me while I washed the dogs since our help does arrive until 9. Then she decided a nap at 10:30 was in order and slept until 12:30. Great! So we ran to town, did some banking and brought home lunch. At 4 she was tired and cranky and I fought her for an hour trying to convince her sleep is good. It didn't happen.

Now I am tired and cranky and told DH that if I didn't get five minutes to myself without a small person whining and pulling on me I was going to self destruct. He kind of gave me a blank stare. So I sucked it up and went and started to play with Teagen. About fifteen minutes later he wonders into the room and states: If you put some pants and a diaper on her I'll take her out for a stroll. So out strolling they are. I think they are probably at the ice cream shop that is literally right behind our building.

In other awesome news... My grandmother bought Teagen a house. Yes... technically the whole family will be living there. But to quote my grandmother: "I'm not so keen on the house, but it is big enough to grow with Teagen. And there is room to get her a horse." So my mom and grandma are coming up tomorrow to sign papers and we'll be going over to the house to see if there is any furniture or farm equipment that they want to sell for a reasonable price. Then this weekend we head back down to the original farm and pack up the RV we've been living in for a year. Thankfully most of our stuff is still in storage, we just have clothes and misc paperwork that needs to be boxed up.


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## wamommy

A HOUSE, Kellen?? Yay!! That's amazing!! Have you seen it yet? What do you think? What a generous, amazing gift. :D You go, Grandma.

DH came in on the plane late last night. I picked him up at 11pm and didn't get to sleep until 1am or so. His body is apparently used to the 3-hour time difference because he's still sleeping and it's after 8! So much for catching up on my own sleep... :dohh:

Luca is crying. Sigh... I'm off to save the day!


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## helena

Oh no wamommy....but you are owed some serious baby sitting in the next week!! I say grab a friend and go swimming / spa and for lunch...it's only fair DH gets quality time with all four kiddos too...

Kellen, what!?! A whole house?? Wow your grandma is awesome! What do you think of the house? Would live a pic! Wow....who gets bought a house!? Amazingly room for a horse!! Taegan is one lucky girl!

Kiara is so very clingy recently. I read separation anxiety peaks at 18 months ish.....it's hard work!! I hVe my inlaws arrive for a week (!!) tomorrow. Today I managed to clean the while kitchen while holding Kiara...I will have one very strong right arm.



Xx


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## DragonflyWing

Hello all, sorry I've been missing for a bit...haven't had much time to get on the computer!

Wow, Kellen, that's amazing about the house! :D

Things are going ok with us...the twins have been super affectionate lately. They give lots of unprompted hugs and kisses, and Lily learned to say "love you." :cloud9:

2.5 weeks until my anatomy scan! The time is dragging. I've been feeling pretty good, the nausea is gone now and my energy is coming back. I had a week where I didn't feel pregnant at all. This week, I think the baby had a growth spurt, because I can really feel my uterus, it's just about at the level of my belly button now. Still not showing much...I had a lot of belly fat to start with, so I don't look much different yet. Weight is holding steady, I've lost about 5 pounds from pre-pregnancy weight. Hoping to gain no more than 10-15 lbs overall.


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## wamommy

Dragonfly, I'm so excited to know how your scan goes! You must be getting anxious. I can't believe how time is flying!

Kellen, how is the house deal going? How's work?

Helena, Max has been very clingy, too! Luckily he's sort of bonded with my 17-year-old step daughter, which is weird because she never liked the girls when they were babies. I've been pawning Max off on her sometimes to get a moment of peace!

I've been working out like a mad woman this week now that DH is back to watch the kids while I sweat. So far I'm only down 3 pounds, but it's a start! I'd love to lose about 15 more pounds to get down to pre-Max weight. It's all parked around my belly so it's easily hidden by sweaters, but I'm getting too hot to keep wearing layers!

Let's all post new pics of our babies!! I'm curious how everyone has grown and would love to see how adorable Kiara, Gunnar, Lily, Teagen and Camden have become. :)

Here's Max yesterday. I'll also post a pic of Luca, even though he isn't a Valentine baby. :haha:
 



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## Kellen

The papers for the house were signed today. We get to start moving in on July 26th! So very, very excited. Because of the awesome covered arena we have officially asked a friend of ours who has a master's in animal behavior to come up twice a week to offer AKC Certified Dog Training Classes. Our insurance has also okayed us to have a doggie daycare on the property as well to be covered under our current business insurance.

Life has been incredibly busy here. We had a huge pet event on Saturday that we had a booth at. The original photographer was unable to make it so we were asked to shot it due to "photography" being in our business name. I took over 1,800 pictures from 9am to 3pm.

I couldn't decide which photo I liked best so I uploaded two of them.
 



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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, Max, Luca, and Teagen are so adorable! I can't believe how they've grown!

Here are some recent pictures of the twins :D
 



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## wamommy

What beautiful babies!! Teagen, Lily and Gunnar are adorable! I can really tell the twins apart. Lily looks so much like a girl (LOVE the supergirl outfit!!) and Gunnar looks so much like a little boy! So cute. Teagen's eyes are the prettiest color, too! They look just like Mommy's. :)

Sierra, I hope all is well with you guys. Have you decided what to do about work and where to live? I've been sending prayers your way!

Helena, luckily your avatar is pretty recent, so we get to see how beautiful Kiara is! A neighbor dropped by cherries to our house the other day and my DD quickly stained her clothes AND the counter top with the juice... :dohh: I thought, "oh ya, no wonder Helena has Kiara eat them outside, naked!!"


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## Kellen

Dragon the twins are adorable! Love the Super Girl outfit. So very cute. You can certainly see that they have unique and individual personalities. 

We are going through a major growth spurt here. Teagen has a super cute anchor dress that she wore to the wedding a month ago. At the time it fell below the knee. Well, I put it on her for church and now it is above the knee. So we hit up Target yesterday and she now wears 3T tops and 2T bottoms. But the poor child has such a tiny waist that she has to have a belt to keep her pants up. I knew this upward growth was on the way because her face and ribs were becoming chubby again. And she outgrew her Crocs which were 4/5 and is now wearing a size 6 toddler shoe. 

The incisors are finally here! And they are barely bothering her at all. The molars are all finally through the gums. 

We also have. New favorite word to say: "touch". I think it is because we frequently ask her not to touch things. Now she will grab your hand and led you to an object and demand that you touch. And instead of asking for help she will sign help and ask for "sisstance" meaning assistance.


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## wamommy

I hope you all had a wonderful 4th of July! We went down to my Mom's vacation beach house on the Washington Coast and met up with a ton of family for 3 days. It was super stressful trying to make sure my girls weren't doing anything dangerous and Max wasn't smashing any of the 100 breakable things in my Mom's house! It was fun seeing family, though. 

Teagen is so tall! Max is still squarely in 18 month clothing. He has a really funny body, with shortish limbs and a huge head. I think he walks like a chimpanzee, too... lol. It's adorable. 

We have a sentence!! Max said, "I want THAT" this morning. Sure, he grunts and points most of the time, but it's nice to know he IS capable of speech. :D


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## SierraJourney

Hi everyone! So sorry for my absence! Things have been CRAZY over here. I'll try to be short with it, but basically---we're MOVING!

DH got a job 3 hours away---that basically, with some down sizing and very frugal living, I can be a stay at home mom and won't have to work anymore!!! I'll still do music concerts and such, but I'll get to take care of Camden all day long without having to juggle work too!

So, today was his first day working the new job. He is staying with a friend, while I continue working from home over here and try to sell the house. We accepted an offer on the house and now just have to go through inspection and appraisal before we can close. We're shooting for the first week of August----going quickly, but still it's a long time for us to be away from DH. :( 

We'll be renting a really small home for a year, then hopefully buying another really small home. It'll be a big lifestyle change for us, but I think it'll be better for all of us---I'll be able to focus more not only on Camden, but also on being a good wife to DH. <3

So, that sums it up! I'm busy working full time in the meantime, taking care of Camden, packing a house, selling it, and trying to find a place for us to rent! I'm going insane and eating lots of chocolate. ;) 

But am very happy! :)


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## DragonflyWing

Way to go Max on the sentence!

Wow, Sierra, that's big news! I'm glad you'll be able to stay home with Camden and not have to worry about work. That's great that you got an offer on the house so quickly!

As for me, I had my 20 week scan today, and....it's a BOY!!! :) Everything measuring right on track, he's already 13 ounces. I have to go back in a month because he was hiding his face and spine, and they want to check those. I also did my glucose tolerance test today, and I'm waiting anxiously for the results.
 



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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so glad you're happy!! Congrats on the new job and the move. I'm SO GLAD you're able to stay home with Camden, since I know it's been really tough dividing time. It sounds like a great move for your family, even though the next couple of months might be stressful trying to get everything done. You deserve chocolate!! :D

Dragonfly, I knew it!!! Yay for another boy. :D Have you thought of any names? The foot picture is adorable. How have you been feeling? I can't believe how fast time is flying... you're already 20 weeks?? Wowzers. I think it's awesome that baby was hiding his face and spine since he gives Mommy another chance to see him in a month!

We're getting the carpets cleaned today, so I better run move everything off of the carpets and vacuum!! I'm actually really excited. I've been begging DH to get them cleaned for a YEAR. Oh, the simple joys in life. :dohh:


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## Kellen

Sierra - That is AMAZING! I am so happy for you. Does this move get you a little further from your MIL as well? I think you'll have a great time being a SAHM to Camden. Hopefully you'll be able to find a local mommies group and make some friends for the both of you. I know how hard it is to be away from DH from an extended period of time. For us it was a good hard thing. It allowed us to both realize that we truly do need and support each other in different aspects of our marriage. Congrats on getting the house sold so quickly!

Dragon - The foot is adorable! Congrats on your baby boy. :happydance: Now Lily will get to be the queen bee and rule over all the boys. Well, at least this way you'll get to have another scan and a peek at your newest family member. How exciting!

Wamommy - It sounds like you had a fun, but exhausting 4th. But YIPPEE! Your carpets are getting cleaned. I love being in a house with clean carpets. It just makes everything seem so fresh and new. 

For all the US ladies and babies: How did your LO's do with the fireworks? Did you stay home or actually take them to a display? We went to see an amazing display and took a pair of shooting earmuffs for Teagen so that the loud sound wouldn't bother her. HA! She refused to wear them and kept saying: "Ba-ba-BOOM!" and then giggle and trying to run towards the platform where they were being shot off. :dohh: My child has no fear.

We are getting new words everyday. Last night I asked her if she wanted to switch sides for nursing and she calmly stated: "Yes, please." She signed it as well as spoke it. But it was very clear. Her favorite sign right now is ice cream. There is an ice cream shop behind our shop that is owned by some people from church. Keep in mind the child had never even had ice cream before the 4th of July. There was a free social so I let her grab a spoon and try some vanilla. Of course she loved it. But yesterday I gave her the choice between a cookie and a piece of homemade tomato basil bread and she took the bread.

Last night I was struck with a migraine. Normally if I can go to sleep it will dissipate and I'll be cranky in the morning. Not so! I managed to fall asleep at 11. Woke up at 3am with my head still feeling like someone was sticking ice picks through my eyes and temples. So I rolled around until 5 and then took a shower. Managed to get back to sleep and then Teagen woke up at 7:30. DH had a breakfast appointment to talk to a guy about raising chickens. The amazing man took the child and allowed me to stay home and sleep. Of course he brought me back and overly cranky toddler with a need for a nap, but she is asleep now.

We start moving into our new house on July 22nd. And I am SO excited to be in a house. The RV and all of our stuff is in boxes. Half we never unpacked from last year and is still in storage. I've been selling off baby stuff and making a few bucks here and there. So, Sierra, I feel your pain.


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## DragonflyWing

Sorry about the migraine, Kellen, I hope you're feeling better. 

We didn't go anywhere for the 4th, but we could hear a lot of fireworks from our house. Lily didn't give a hoot, and completley ignored them. Gunnar was getting upset at each loud boom until we looked out the upstairs window and showed him what they were. Then he was fine with them. I think he was just scared because he didn't know what was going on.

This morning as I was leaving for work, Lily waved at me and said "bye bye mama! Love!" :cloud9:


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## Kellen

Dragon - That is adorable! Talk about melting your heart...

I am not sure what to do with myself. All the laundry is done. The house is clean. Teagen is still sleeping... going on a 3 hour nap. In other news it is too hot here today. 105. Yuck!


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## SierraJourney

Congrats on baby boy Dragon!!!!! Adorable pics! I agree-- hooray for another scan! 

Thank you ladies!! I'm so nervous-- inspection was today and we have a really old house (1935)-- so I'm praying nothing bad came in the iinspection. I think it's a great house but also know older houses can have hidden problems. Positive thoughts and prayers are appreciated!

And YES kellen--- the move will get me a blissful THREE hour distance from mil!!!! ;). A definite perk! Especially since she randomly decided to stop by the other morning, during Camden's nap time without warning, letting herself into our home without knocking and walking on my freshly swept floors with her shoes on. Grr!! The move will be very welcome. ;)


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## helena

Hi all,
Lovely pictures!! It's great seeing how everyone is growing and becoming real little people. Wow Max, well done on linking three words!!! We still have few clear words, but Kiara is doing so we'll physically so maybe speech will come later . I have had to start stacking our dining chairs when we went eating or she climbs up, then on to the table. She thinks its hilarious.
Congrats on a boy dragon!!! Xx
Oh and congrats on the move Sierra, exciting times!

4th of July here was my first sons sixth birthday. We had a little party with two of his friends plus my two boys (and Kiara!) all charging about the garden with water bombs and water pistols. They had a great time. Kiara enjoyed herself and was so tired she then went to bed and slept solid for 13 hours!! :)

It's the school summer holidays here. I have all three of my monkeys home for 9 weeks. 9. Good lord... ;)
Here is Kiara and her six year old brother...she is going much blonder in the sun:
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_imagejpg1.jpg

How's your carpets wamommy?

Can't believe mil let herself in Sierra!! Omg I wouldn't like that. Don't give her a key at the new place? X


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## Kellen

Sierra - That is awful! Even when we lived in the RV from my parents they would knock or text beforehand to make sure that no one was sleeping or busy doing something else. That woman has some gall. I am pleased to hear that you are going to be getting a bit of break.

Helena - Kiara is adorable... as is your sun. Teagen is getting blond tips, but the body of her hair is still a reddish hue. 

DH thinks I'm pregnant. Here are his reasons: You have been unusually emotional for the past two days. You are extra tired. You spotted yesterday and your AF was only two weeks ago. We've been through this rodeo twice... I know the signs.

All this from Mr. Oblivious. I am terrified that he is correct. Right now we are in the process of getting medical insurance quotes for small business owners. If it turns out to be true we will have to bite the bullet and get insurance NOW before it becomes a pre-existing condition. :dohh: Because life doesn't need to be easy...


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## wamommy

Helena, Kiara is beautiful! Your son looks so much like you, too. Do they always get along so well? So cute! 

The carpets are amazing, btw. :D Except my 4-year-old was chasing the cat marker in hand, and now there are brand new blue blob stains on the family room carpet... grrr. 

Kellen, eek about a possible pregnancy! Do YOU feel pregnant? How would you feel about it, insurance aside? The age gap would be pretty manageable I think. I can't wait to find out! 

Helena, we're out of school here too. August 27th they start up again and both of my girls will be in full-day school. Part of me is SO excited for the peace and quiet, and part of me is sad to have them both gone that long each day! For now it's a challenge to find activities to entertain the girls while not being too hard on the boys. Right now it's too hot to do anything outside until the evening so we've been going stir crazy. 

Sierra, LOL about the MIL. I'm glad you get a little separation from her with the move. I couldn't stand people popping by unannounced, much less letting themselves in! You're a more patient woman than I! :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Kellen when will you test?! That's so exciting!!!! How do you feel?

Wamommy, when it's super hot here, Camden plays in this water table--- if you don't have one maybe some other tote or bin full of water and toys?

And mil...I really wasn't that nice... lol..very short with her actually. And then on Tuesday she said she was going to come by and watch Camden while I worked, and texts 30 minutes AFTER she was supposed to be here and says she wasn't coming anymore because it was raining and she wanted to take him on a walk. For some reason she wants him out of my sight when she watches him.. makes me so mad that she offered to "help" me but then because she couldn't go walking, she didn't come. So frustrating. Let's pray the distance helps and comes SOON!!


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## DragonflyWing

Kellen- wow! I echo what wamommy said, do you feel pregnant? 

Helena- that is such a great picture! Kiara is getting so big!

I clipped coupons for a week and managed to come in $15 under budget on groceries, so I bought the twins a baby pool for $12.99. I was so excited to get home and show them, then DH rained all over my parade and got upset with me for buying something "unnecessary." He's making me return it. :( When I explained that I made room in the budget for it, he said "A budget is there to limit spending, not to justify it." 

Stoopid head.

He said they can just run through the sprinkler. But I want them to start learning about being in water! They've never even been in any water except the bath.

In other gloomy news, I failed my glucose test, so I have to go back and do the 3 hour one. Argh.


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## SierraJourney

Awww dragon that stinks! He should have let you keep the pool---- they would have loved it!!!! :(

Sorry about the glucose test. :( hopefully the next results are better!


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## DragonflyWing

Guess who just peed on the potty?! Gunnar!!

We set up the little potty a few days ago because they were showing signs of being ready (telling us when they pee/poop, being really interested in the toilet and watching us to go the bathroom lol). We started just letting them sit on it whenever they asked. I figured it would be a while before they actually understood what it was for and then getting the timing right. This morning, Gunnar ran to the bathroom door saying "potty! potty!" so DH put him on it...and he peed!

Of course, we made a huge deal about it and clapped and danced around the bathroom haha. He was so proud of himself!

For all I know, it was a fluke and he won't do it again for months, but I'm super psyched! Now we'll see if Lily will do it!


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## Kellen

Dragon - That is a bummer. The twins would have had a great time in the pool. It would have been a great opportunity to teach them about water safety too. I'm sorry about the glucose test. Hopefully the three hour one will come back negative.

The only "symptom" perse is extreme exhaustion. But that could be tied to many things: really hot weather, long hours, chasing a toddler, etc. With Teagen I never really had any symptoms beyond tiredness until we reached around 8 weeks. As things stand we are in the TWW.

To be completely honest I don't want another child right now. We cannot afford another child and Teagen takes up so much of my mental energy that I don't think I could give another baby the attention it would need. We are also still nursing and although I know tandem nursing is possible as well as nursing through pregnancy it isn't something I'm keen to try out. I would also like to have Teagen fully potty trained. If I had it my way we wouldn't ever try for another one, but we will because DH really wants at least one more. I had a very happy childhood as an only and don't understand the sibling thing. But if we are I will love the baby with my whole heart and I'm sure I will become excited.


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## Kellen

Congrats, Dragon! That is amazing!


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## wamommy

Yay for Gunnar going peepee!! :happydance: That's GREAT. Even if it was a fluke, it shows that he's comfortable with the whole potty thing and will have a much easier time learning. Max grabs his diaper when he pees, lol... but no sign of interest in the potty at all.

Dragon, I'm sorry to hear about the glucose test. I failed mine last time too... just barely... and had to do the 3 hour. It's NO fun, but maybe a chance to bring a good book and get 3 hours to yourself? :winkwink:

Boo about the pool! We should really get one here, but our little yard doesn't have much of a fence and it drops off literally 20 feet at the edge. I'm worried Max (or the girls!) would get excited and fly off of the edge, lol. The water table sounds super fun, too. There are little spray parks around our house but I worry about Max (who tends to face-plant a lot) falling on the slippery cement. Have you guys tried/liked those parks?

Kellen, with my first 3 the only really symptom I had was exhaustion too. Luca was the only pregnancy that cause massive nausea right off the bat. I agree that it could be the heat, or stress, or a number of different things, and it sounds like you're hoping for a negative test? I can completely understand, since you have so much going on right now that even if you do have another one it probably isn't the best time. That said, sometimes the most inconvenient things can turn out to be the most amazing! :) I already can't imagine life without Luca, even though his arrival has made an already-stressful household completely chaotic. Sometimes I heartily wish we'd stopped at 2!! Oh well... We're given what we can handle, right?


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## DragonflyWing

Lily followed right behind her brother and decided to outdo him...she peed _and_ pooped on the potty! I'm so proud of them :cloud9:

I can finally feel the baby kicking from the outside now...my anterior placenta had really been muffling things, but he seems to be big enough now to kick around it :)

I don't think we have any spray parks around us, but I'll have to check that out. I'd be afraid of Gunnar scraping up his knees on the cement, too. He never watches where he's going!


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## Kellen

Dragon - Congrats on the twins using the potty and on being able to feel the baby kick.

We will find out Friday if AF shows up.

In other news Teagen has almost completely potty trained herself over the past 5 days. Right now if she doesn't wear any underwear or pants (dresses are awesome!) she will sign potty and run to her potty chair and sit down and use it. However, if we put underwear on she will have an accident. But! If she is wearing pull ups she will tell us and let us help her pull them down so she can potty. The only accident she had today was during nap time.

DH is super excited because me, being OH SO Brilliant stated that I would not have another child until Teagen was fully potty trained. Now he is champing at the bit for #2 to be in the works. Can I amend my statement and say until she is able to communicate in whole spoken sentences?


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## DragonflyWing

Wow that's great! Way to go Teagen! Mine are not going on the potty every time yet, but they've been consistently using it at least once a day, so I'm happy!

I kinda want to punch DH in the throat sometimes. Mosquitos seem to be insanely attracted to the twins, so I have a bottle of bug spray with DEET in the diaper bag. I asked DH to apply it if they go outside for any length of time. They came home yesterday after walking to the library, and Gunnar's face was covered in bites. I asked DH if he'd used the bug spray, and he said he didn't because he didn't think it was healthy for them. WTF, I wouldn't have given it to you to use if I hadn't researched it and found that it was safe. Do you think being covered in giant red itchy welts (Gunnar reacts really strongly to the bites) is better? Poor little guy looks like he was beaten. Lily has a bunch too, but hers aren't as angry and red.

He has also been being really impatient with them and yelling all the time. They're just being kids (yelling, taking laundry out of the basket, putting their bottles down and forgetting where they are, throwing food on the floor, etc.), but DH gets SO mad. He doesn't know how to choose his battles...every little thing is a huge war. If one of the kids is whining, instead of trying to figure out what's wrong, he just yells at them to stop. If they don't, he puts them in time-out. He's constantly saying things like "Ugh! I can't stand any more of your whining! Go away!" and even tells them to shut up.

I don't know if it has anything to do with his prior head injury, but it seems like he has absolutely zero patience. I tried to talk to him about it, but didn't get anywhere.


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## Kellen

Dragon, sorry to hear that DH is having trouble. Odd as this May sound it seems like he might be suffering from a bit of post-partum depression. It can occur in men especially if they play a huge care-taking role. I know that constant whining can really get on ones nerves and the constant help can also be a drain. Maybe suggest that he put himself in time out when he becomes frustrated. Just take a minute and walk away. 

I am almost convinced there is a baby on the way. AF should have arrived on Thurs. but there is no sign. I am insanely tired after having smelted a solid ten hours and the need to pee has arrived. DH and I have agreed to wait until We'd to test just to give AF time to show up.


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## wamommy

Dragon, I'm so sorry your DH is having a hard time. I agree that a time-out for himself is probably the best remedy. I know that's not always possible, but once in a while can make a huge difference. I know I've been struggling a LOT with this very same thing. I constantly have a baby on me or in my arms, and it's exhausting. DH purposely makes Luca cry when I make him hold the baby (growls at him, startles him, etc) and then says, "see, he doesn't like me! You take him" when he starts to scream. :( As soon as Luca falls asleep he hands me Max... sigh. Sometimes I snap at the girls way more than I should or yell at them when they wake the baby, etc. I know they're just being kids and I feel awful, but I'm just stressed to the max with no outlet. I would give ANYTHING for a daily time out. 

Kellen, eep!! I'm excited for you!! DH must be over the moon. I can't wait until Wednesday!

As for the genius potty using babies, omg you rock! Max hasn't looked twice at the potty, except to try to throw a toy into it. :dohh: What's the secret??


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## helena

Oh I am so amazed some of the babies are potty training!! I didn't even think about it yet. I found Kiara with our potty the other day.. She was trying it on like a shoe...

But I might try it after reading about your angels!!

My boys didn't get it until 2.5-3.. Bleurgh.

Just back from uk. Mum seemed a little worse. We had a big cry together. Am so emotionally drained, heart broken. But Kiara did her job and made mum and dad smile, charging about their garden wielding the garden hose and playing in a pink paddling pool. Very cute.
But emotionally I am a bit of a mess, it's like it all only just hit home....feeling time isn't on our side. Hope I am wrong.


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, that's so sad that your DH makes Luca cry just so he doesn't have to hold him. I felt like crying when I read that...I'm sorry you are so super stressed. :hugs:


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## Kellen

Helena - I am glad you got to visit your mom, but I'm sorry that things aren't looking up. I hope that things get better for you. Kiara sounds like she is a firecracker and would be super fun!

Wamommy - So we have a 5 bedroom house now... Come on down! But don't bother bringing DH.

So no idea if we are positive or negative on the whole pregnancy thing. I _thought_ AF started yesterday, but today there is barely anything when I wipe. We have decided to give AF until the end of the week to really show or not.

Had a bit of a setback on the potty thing. Love my grandmother to pieces, but she is really negative and really upset DH while we were moving our stuff. In turn it impacted Teagen and now I can barely get to her to sit on a potty whereas before she was super excited.

But business is picking up. For some reason Saturday is our slowest day, but we are working on that. Next Saturday we are having our Grand Opening and I've ready sent press releases and PSA's out to all the newspaper and radio stations. My goal this week is to call the local TV stations and see if they want to send someone out to cover part of the event.

We FINALLY have eye-teeth coming down. For the longest time Teagen has had a gap between here front four teeth and her molars. Just yesterday we finally saw them poking down and up, respectively. 

So we are leaving the crib at the shop for naps and the occasional time that Teagen needs to be sequestered. This left us with the quandary of where shall Teagen sleep at the new house? Well, DH and my dad found a toddler bed hanging in the barn so my mom and I went to Wal-Mart and picked up a new mattress. So last night Teagen slept in a big girl bed and did great. She didn't fall out or wiggle as much as she does in the crib. Of course she kicked off all the covers by morning, but all in all it was a good sleep.

I don't know if I posted it here or if I was telling someone else... but I found out that a year has been taken off my doctorate program. I was looking over my pre-scheduled classes and sent a note to advising asking for some specific elective courses and found out that while I was in my master's course I had taken doctorate level courses so they transferred. This save $3,675 per course... a savings of over $10,000! I also get to begin writing my dissertation next October. I am pretty excited.

Teagen's new favorite thing to do is spin in circles and say "dzzzy" until she falls down and begins giggling. Super cute.


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## DragonflyWing

I don't know how you haven't tested yet, I would have tested like 87 times already :haha:...you have a strong will!

Gunnar got his eyeteeth this month, too, but Lily still has the gaps. That's great that Teagen slept in a big girl bed! I think mine would fall out within 15 minutes...they are pretty wiggly when they sleep.

Wow, fantastic news on the course savings! That's pretty exciting that you get to start your dissertation so soon!

We had a dramatic moment last night. Lily was sitting on my lap, and she got frustrated when I told her we couldn't watch Curious George (George is the love of her life right now, but she had already watched an hour of it earlier). She screamed and then hit me in the face as hard as she could. It really hurt! I was so stunned that I just reacted and smacked her back, not hard at all, but enough that she stopped in her tracks with this shocked look on her face. Then she dissolved in tears and threw herself into my arms, kissing my face and wailing "Mama, sorry! Love!"

I felt bad for reacting that way, but I think it made her realize she had hurt me, because she seemed so sorry. Poor little thing. Do you ladies have any ideas on how to teach them to express their anger in non-violent ways? DH tends to expect them to bottle up their feelings and just stop whatever they're doing, but I want them to know that it's ok to feel sad, mad, angry, etc, but that it's not ok to hit people or break things.


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## Kellen

Dragon - You have my complete sympathy with being smacked across the face and also a similar issue with DH's. I have finally convinced my DH that Teagen cannot control herself sometimes. Now he will calmly talk to her and let her cry and "encourage" her to scream louder if she is throwing a fit. LOL the reverse reaction confuses her and she normally stops. Because we are also in a hitting phase we have begun to encourage "High-5's". This gives her a positive outlet.

My method of discipline when Teagen hits me is to sit her firmly down on the ground and stop whatever we are doing. I then make her look at me (which can take some doing) and then explain what she did wrong. Then I leave her there until she is sorry and we make up.

So AF is here in full-swing. No testing needed. I am very relieved to be honest. We cannot financially support another child at this precise moment in time. I would like to be in business for at least a year with insurance. As for my strong will I am a strange dichotomy - I am a practical dreamer. Even with Teagen I tested once, got a positive and that was enough for me. I never worried about lines getting darker or lighter. I was either pregnant or I wasn't. I guess using a POAS just doesn't hold a great deal of appeal to me and I would rather give my body time to communicate with me.


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## DragonflyWing

I like the idea of letting them scream to let out their frustration, but DH can't stand it. He's always had sensitive hearing, and loud noises hurt his ears, so when the kids yell or scream, he doesn't tolerate it at all (although it doesn't seem to stop him from yelling at _them_). Even when they get loud while playing (they get shrieky when they're excited), he yells at them to be quiet. 

When I'm with them and they get upset, I try to put a name to what they're feeling, and let them know I understand. E.g. "Are you feeling angry because I said you can't climb on the table? It's ok to be frustrated when you don't get what you want, but climbing on the table is dangerous. Why don't we set up the couch cushions to climb on?"

DH on the other hand, would just be like "NO!!! I'VE TOLD YOU A MILLION TIMES NOT TO CLIMB ON THE TABLE!!!" then grab them and put them in time-out. If they cried, he'd yell at them to be quiet. If they continued to cry or whine, he'd put them in the playpen in the other room, which is a sort of "level 2 time-out." At that point, they don't get to come back in until they are quiet. Sometimes that takes up to 20 minutes, because they hate that playpen (obviously, since it's always a punishment), and scream their lungs out as soon as they see it.

Now, I don't have a problem using time-outs if it's warranted. However, I really don't like using it as a first resort, and I really hate that DH constantly yells at the kids. All three of them often seem really stressed out when I get home from work, because it's a constant power struggle. When I am alone with them, I almost never need to use time-out, and most of the time simple distraction and redirection solves the majority of behavioral issues. 

Agh! I'm trying to find some parenting classes in our area...DH might be more receptive if advice comes from someone else rather than me.


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## helena

:wacko::dohh:If Kiara has been mean I also just say no firmly and put her down on the ground, telling her that hitting me (or wherever) wasnt nice. She usually will then scream and cry but I think that it's sinking in then. I would rather her be upset about it than not bothered. I find ignoring naughty behavior works just as well as telling them off half the time. Being ignored is horrid for kids. After all, they just want attention all the time. It's the best punishment a lot of the time. 

I forgot to say what a pain Kiara was on thr flight to England last week. She just wanted to wiggle and get down, so was as constantly struggling to get off my lap, so kicking the chair in front. The poor man there was trying to sleep....I could see he was getting a bit annoyed so I put her down in the walkway. She then walked along and grabbed his arm. He woke again. Five minuets later she threw her comforter duck and it landed flat on top of his balding head. Oh I did laugh to myself while saying "oh sorry, it just gets worse doesn't it!" To him. I think he could see the funny side but did move to another seat for a while...ops. Kiara also spotted something under my chair that interested her. It was only as she made a grab for it that I realized it was the beautiful gold sandals of the lady in the seat behind who was sleeping. Unfortunately the sandals were still on her feet so ewe had another awoken passenger, oops! Luckily i was sitting ting next to a lovely couple who were flying without their 2.5 year old daughter for the first time and they thought it all highly amusing!! Doh


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## DragonflyWing

Quiet thread lately! Busy time of year for all of us, I guess!

Potty training continues...both babies have been using the potty at least once a day, sometimes many times in a day! 

We've only had two accidents...Lily said she was done, stood up to go wash her hands, and peed all over the floor :haha:. Yesterday, Gunnar said he was all done, washed his hands, and walked out into the living room to get a new diaper on. On the way, he stopped to look at the TV, so I picked him up to get him to the changing table. As I set him down, I realized his legs and feet and my hands were covered in poop! I looked over to see a big pile right in front of the TV :dohh:

The worst part of that was that I started gagging while cleaning it up and threw up the dinner I'd just eaten. Argh. 

On Friday, I'm taking the twins to NY to see my family. It will be their first plane trip and I'm completely terrified. My sister and her boyfriend are coming along, so I'll have help (DH is staying home), but I'm still freaking out about packing everything, getting it through the airport and security, then dealing with the kids on the plane. I'm hoping it's not as stressful as I've been imagining.


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## wamommy

Well done with the potty training!! I'm super impressed. Both of my girls didn't go diaper-free until almost 3 years old... :dohh: Hopefully the boys will be faster! Max says, "I'm wet" when his diaper fails and he's already covered in pee, but other than that he seems totally uninterested in all things potty. :shrug:

Kellen, I'm so happy to hear about your doctorate program! That's great news. How are you liking the new house? I love the "dzzzy" game. So cute. :)

Helena, I'm sorry your Mom isn't doing too well. :hugs: I can't imagine how tough it is and I'm amazed at how together you seem about it all. I'm sure she was so happy to see you guys! I smiled thinking of your plane trip! I'm so afraid of flying that I get SUPER stressed out. I haven't got up the nerve to fly with kids yet. Car trips are tedious though... If you can survive that plane trip I have no excuse!

Dragonfly, discipline is tough for us here right now, so I'm totally not the one to ask. Luckily Max has only smacked me one time, and I acted like it REALLY hurt... like full-on sobbed and looked completely insulted. He froze and started to wail. Then he hugged me and has never hit me again, lol. We DO run into the issue of not listening when I tell him not to turn the TV off/on/off/on or not to throw his sippy across the room. I suppose it's really minor things with Max and I haven't had an issue with discipline YET. My 4-year-old daughter, on the other hand, is a whole other story. I am completely at a loss with her lately. She is a dreamer. She's imaginative, brilliant, artistic and sweet. She also lives in her own world and is often oblivious and doesn't listen. I don't think it's malicious, but it's certainly infuriating. I don't like to "punish" her (time outs, loss of privileges etc) but I don't know what else to do. DH spanks, and I HATE that, so I've been trying everything else to curb her behavior so that she doesn't get in that kind of trouble.

We just got back from a camping trip at Mt. Rainier. We actually stayed in a little cabin right at the base of the mountain and then drove up to "Paradise" viewing area the next morning. The girls loved it! We made Smores and roasted hot dogs in the fire place at the cabin and Luca's pack n play still smells like campfire! It was a fun trip, and I hope the girls will have good memories of it. I often worry that DH and I are ruining their childhood with our arguments (read: HIS arguments) and so much negativity at home. I suppose I've become kind of numb to it. Sigh... tomorrow is another day! Nothing changes if nothing changes, I suppose.

Here's the mountain! (and my girls)
 



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## Kellen

Wamommy - It looks like your family had a great time on your mini-vacation. 

Dragon - Good luck with the trip and the twins. I'm glad that you will have time to visit your family. Maybe a short time away from the twins will revitalize your DH and he will be a little more rested.

Helena - My heart just goes out to you.

So business is going really, really well. Of course we have our hiccups, but so far all the bills have been paid and people are extremely happy. I'm sure you all remember the frantic job search that I did for DH and the filling out of over 260 applications. Well... DH has had four job offers in the past week. :dohh: At this time we have an add out for another groomer because two of the jobs are too good to pass over.

DH only needs 90 days at sea to sit for license. One of the jobs offers 1 1/2 days of sea time per working day. It is a two weeks out, one week at home rotation. This would actually work well as DH would still be able to groom part of the time and keep tabs on the business. However, it would put me at the business from open to close EVERYDAY. But it would be worth it. Once he passes license this company said they wouldn't mind hiring him on as a Mate. Their mate's typically start at $700/day. I'm rather okay with that.

Yesterday Teagen took a 4 HOUR NAP! And it was amazing. Today she fell asleep while we are playing on the computer so I laid her down. She also ate an entire hotdog and an entire hamburger for dinner. That was on top of the grapes, tomatoes and blueberries that she had been snacking on prior to dinner. Since she ate so well I have her a treat in the form of a small bowl of ice cream.

She has more words everyday and it is so much fun to have full conversations with her. The other night I woke up because she sat up in bed and stated: "Gotta go get Dadda, Pup-Pup." And then purposefully slid out of bed. However, she fell asleep before she made it to the door. I tucked her back in and she went back to sleep.

Potty training is going well. Yesterday we only had one accident! She has actually been wearing underwear and not using them as a diaper. When she does have an accident she gets really upset. :( We try to keep it light when she does so that way she isn't hesitant to tell us.

Well, I am almost ready to contemplate another baby. That is huge for me because I am really happy with just one. However, I think we will wait to see what DH's employment status is. If he gets on with this company we will wait until the 6 month mark. That way he will be eligible for FMLA when #2 comes around. That way Teagen would be 2 1/2 or even 3 by the time a sibling would arrive. She would be able to go to the local Christian preschool for a few days a week and our business here would be established as well.


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## DragonflyWing

Exciting stuff, Kellen! That would be awesome if DH is able to take that job. Way to go Teagen on the sentences and potty training!

We got back from our vacation yesterday. The twins had a BLAST, it was so so great for them. They met tons of new people, which they loved, and they were so happy and well behaved the whole time. They went swimming for the first time, and didn't want to get out of the pool even when their lips were purple and they were shivering lol. 

Unfortunately, they had zero interest in the potty while we were gone, so I'm hoping they'll pick it up again now that we're home.

The flight to NY was a little rough...the kids didn't want to go to sleep and were pretty fussy. We had to drive 3 hours to get to the airport, so by the time we got on the plane, they were totally sick of sitting in one place already. They also didn't want to sit with my sister, so I was wrestling both of them for most of the flight. The flight home was MUCH better. We had been delayed and were stuck at the airport for 4 hours, so they were really tired by the time we boarded. We were hardly in the air before they both went to sleep, and they slept the whole time. 

They were so happy to see Daddy! They really missed DH.

As for me, it was a pretty exhausting trip! Since they were in an unfamiiar place with lots of unfamiliar people, they were pretty attached to me...my family helped a lot, but frequently the twins just needed reassurance and cuddles from mama :). They also got their sleep schedules all wonky, and never seemed to sleep at the same time. Often, Lily would wake up as early as 6am, and Gunnar would sleep until 10:30...and then Lily would go to bed early and Gunnar would be up until midnight. It made for some looong days with little sleep. 

When we got home last night (really this morning- 3am), we had been travelling for almost 12 hours, and my feet, ankles, and hands had swelled up like crazy. All my muscles ached from lugging the kids and the luggage all over creation, and even though I had been drinking as much water as possible, I was super dehydrated. I was supposed to have a doctor appointment this morning, but I had to reschedule because I only would have gotten about 3.5 hours of sleep, and I felt like I'd been run over by a truck. Thankfully, I wasn't expected at work until noon, so I had some more time to rest. I still feel pretty rough, though. 

Here are some pictures of the twins on our trip! The last one is my mom with Lily.
 



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## helena

Gorgeous photos dragon!! I adore the sleeping twins pic :)
12 hours traveling, oh wow!!

Will write more soon, was just dashing by xxx

Me and my babies :)....

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_imagejpg1-2.jpg

The whole family recently when we were away camping: https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_imagejpg1-1.jpg


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## Kellen

Dragon - The twins are adorable! I'm glad that you had a good trip, even if you are tired. I think I speak for us all when I say we all look forward to hearing how your doctor's appointment goes.

Helena - Your family is beautiful. What a good looking group of kids!

Yesterday was awesome in potty training land. Teagen wore a pair of underwear all day without a single accident! And today she actually went and sat on the potty all by herself. Dragon, don't be discouraged about the not using the potty. It takes a bit to become re-accustom to the potty. It took Teagen almost two weeks before she would use the potty there.


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## wamommy

Dragon, what great photos! I also love the one of them sleeping. Nothin' like a little elbow sucking to make for a great nap. :) Lily and Gunnar are getting SO big and are adorable!

Helena, your family looks like a postcard! Gorgeous! Kiara looks so grown up, and I can't believe how big the boys are! You look so lovely and trim, by the way!! You have such a beautiful family. :)

Kellen, well done with the sentences and potty training!! I'm also glad to hear that business is going well and that there are some great options for DH and employment. It sounds like this year has really opened up a ton of doors for you two, and it's exciting that you're contemplating (or almost?) another baby! I happen to think that you are such a wonderful Mom that is would be a crime NOT to bring another little one into this world. :happydance:

Today was our first day back at church since Luca has been born and Max's first day in the nursery, since you have to be 18 months old to go there. He LOVED it!!! He flitted around from toy to toy and didn't even notice when we left. Two hours later we returned to Max chasing bubbles and playing "vroom vroom" with a bus, like we'd never left! He's so different from my uber-clingy girls that it's truly amazing. 

Oh no... Luca just pooped through his clothes onto my lap... gotta go. Motherhood is SO glamorous!


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## helena

Oh thanks so much for saying I look trim!!:happydance: I am actually heavier than ever and feel a bit frumpy. All my limbs are toned and get a good workout chasing the kids and lugging and carrying them everyday. But my belly shows the signs of three kids, a love of pizza, eating late every evenings and a love of wine....:dohh: still, I dress to hide the 7 month preggers belly :winkwink:

Will done Max on being such a big brave boy. It's amazing how different siblings can be isn't it!


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks, ladies! Love the pictures, helena! What a lovely family you have :)

When I got home from vacation, I was shocked to see that I had somehow gained 5 pounds in 5 days! However, I think it was all excess fluid, as my swelling went down and all the weight disappeared with it. 

I'm 25 weeks now, and I'm 3 pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight. DH is all worried, but the doctor seems fine with it, since I started out overweight anyway. They only want me to gain 15 pounds at the most, so hopefully I don't suddenly start gaining a ton!


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## Kellen

Here are a few updated pictures of Teagen. The first she is sitting on her potty pretending to be a bug. The second is her first haircut. Poor girl had bangs in her eyes so we finally made the decision to cut it. The third is just a nice view of her trim. We are leaving the back for now.

So DH is almost officially hired. All they need to do is complete the background check and then they'll give him a start date. We are all very excited.

We have interviewed three potential groomers so far. The first two were no goes, but we invited the one today to come back tomorrow and show us what she can do for some of the haircuts we have coming in. :happydance:

Also I have decided that baby-making shall commence in late Feb or early March depending upon our insurance status. Hoping for a boy this go around and would really like him to be born on Dec 5th per family tradition. My dad was born on his grandfather's birthday, as was his grandfather. My eldest nephew missed it by 3 hours. I need uphold tradition. lol
 



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## DragonflyWing

Great photos, Kellen! 

Is there a big growth spurt around this time? The twins are acting like they're gearing up to grow big time. They're more tired, and eating a ton, and they've been generally cranky and clingy. 

This morning, Lily woke up at 7:15. I gave her some milk and sat her down with Curious George (this is her morning ritual). DH was up, and I went back to bed for a little while, and then started work (I'm working from home today). When I came out again at about 12:30 for lunch, Lily was asleep in the recliner exactly where I left her. DH said that she fell asleep watching George, and had been sleeping for about 3 hours. Gunnar woke up at about 9, stayed up for a half hour, then fell asleep on DH for 2.5 hours. It's 1:20pm and they haven't even had breakfast yet because they're being sleepyheads! It's so weird. I hope they're not getting sick.


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## Kellen

Teagen is the same way. I have also noticed that her face is getting really round again. She consumes mass quantities of food and still wants to nurse a bunch. She is also really clingy. I am waiting for the next big growth spurt. She slept for 3.5 hours yesterday.


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## wamommy

Wow, Teagen has grown and changed so much! She is gorgeous. :) I love the bangs!

Max has been super clingy and fussy too, but has been sleeping LESS, which isn't cool. He's dropped his ONE nap down to 45 min to an hour. :dohh: Luckily he only wakes up once or twice a night now and sleeps until 7:30 or 8 most days.

I've discovered that Max has a great sense of humor! He makes jokes and then throws his head back and laughs. He'll say, "eye" and point to his nose and then laugh crazily, knowing he was wrong. He's also getting better at making his needs known which is so much better for all of us. 

Weird question, but does anyone else's LO call things the sound they make? Max does this with everything. Cats are "meow," monkeys are "ah ah," cars (and everything with wheels) are "vroom vroom." Weird, huh? It's really consistent.

Here are newish pics of all of my babies! Max looks just like Daddy, and the rest are fair like me. I always joke that Max is like the one puppy at the end of "Lady and the Tramp" that looks just like its Daddy!
 



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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, your children are all so beautiful! 

The twins tend to say the name of things, followed by the sounds they make...so we get "Monkey, ooh ooh ah ah! Cow, moo! Frog, ribbit!" etc. I think it's totally normal to associate things with the sounds they make, and call them by the sounds. 

Lily woke up with a fever today :( 102.5. She's been sleeping on and off all day, and her appetite is in the toilet. I guess yesterday was a warning that she was getting sick! Gunnar seems fine, although his appetite yesterday and today hasn't been great. I hope he's not getting sick too. I woke up with incredibly sore joints and a headache, so I might be getting something too. Fun fun.

I was supposed to have my 3 hour glucose test today, but I cancelled it when I woke up feeling so awful.


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## helena

What beautiful children wamommy. You must be so proud :) do they all get along?
There has been a Fair bit of bickering between my 4 and 6 year olds this school holidays. They play nicely ken minute then are literally punching the next....one and a half weeks and school starts again. Yay!

Taegan looks so grown up! Oh wow!! Gorgeous. I always feel Kiara looks much younger..I think it's the lack of hair at the front that makes her look like a baby.

She amazed me yesterday by being grown up. She went out of our front door, down the steps, unaided, ran across the lawn, climbed the ladder into the big trampoline, turned around and zipped the door opening shut and then started jumping around. Proper jumps. When did she grow up so much!?

Sounds like there are a few growth spurts going on. Unless the twins got sick? I do hope not.
Kiara also looks to have fattened up a bit lately. I see it in her thighs most. And wow she eats.
She was also whinging a lot this morning with her fingers in her mouth. I think the final front ones are a least broken through so that would just leave her final set of molars :( hope if it is them they come through quick. I can't remember when my sons got them, but I do rememebr my eldest eldest had all through before his brother arrived on the scene and he was 25 months then, so maybe it's possible for Kiara now, I don't know.

My eldest is at a football / soccer camp all this week. The house seems so quiet! He goes each day at 9 and I collect him at 5. He is super tired, SO grumpy, but happy :)

Hope you are feeling good dragon. Can you feel baby moving a lot? Gosh it all seems so long ago now!...xx


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## wamommy

Oh no, Dragon! I'm so sorry Lily is sick and that you feel awful. Sick+pregnant=no fun!!! I hope it passes quickly.

Helena, my girls have been on a real fighting spree lately. They play so nicely sometimes, but it almost always ends in "Mom, she won't let me wear the hat I want!" or "Mom, she just pinched my arm!" My favorite lately was, "Mom, Nica said she'd never play with me again, EVER!" :haha: School starts here in about a week and I'm pretty excited for the peace and quiet! I'm nervous for my 4-year-old though. She'll only be FOUR when she starts kindergarten this year... with no preschool or half-day warm-up year. I hope it all goes well.

Dragon, I can't believe you're almost there! Have you thought of names? Do Gunnar and Lily know what's going on? Max still calls Luca "Bop." It's the funniest thing. When we first came home from the hospital and held the baby down to Max, he whacked Luca in the head!! I said to Max, "Oh Max, we don't bop the baby!" So apparently he thinks Bop IS the baby... :dohh:


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## wamommy

I was just thinking about you, Sierra, and hope all is well with the move!! We'd love to hear how you are when you have a chance.:flower:


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## Kellen

So we unexpectedly found out my mom has cancer. Kind of reeling. But good news is DH got the federal job and we hired a new groomer. I just want to sit down all alone and cry, but I have to stay and be strong for everyone.


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks...turns out we have hand, foot, and mouth disease. Lily has the blisters all around her mouth and I think in her throat, too. She had two days of fever and sleepiness, and she seems a little bit better today now that the fever is gone, but she still won't eat much. She woke up last night crying inconsolably, saying "hurt, hurt," but she wouldn't tell me where it hurt. I tried giving her some ice cold juice to soothe her mouth, and that finally helped enough for her to go back to sleep. During the day, she's beein dragging a blanket around with her so she can lie down and rest on it wherever she wants lol. Poor little baby, I hate to see her feeling so yucky. Gunnar has been a little more tired than usual, but he's eating normally and hasn't had any other symptoms, so I'm hoping he doesn't get it.

My mouth and tongue are quite sore, but I didn't develop the rash like Lily did. Mostly I'm just super tired and achey. 

helena, yes, I feel the baby moving a ton! Just a little while ago, I was reading on my lunch break, and he was kicking my kindle off my belly! :haha:

We're still working on names. It's been extremely difficult to find anything that we both agree on...so far there aren't any that I love. I've been scouring the internet for every baby names list I can find, and I've gotten tons of suggestions from friends and family...but nothing is clicking. :-\

Kellen- I'm so sorry about your mom! That must have been such a shock. I sure hope they caught it early and her prognosis is good. Super hugs for you.


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## wamommy

Oh Kellen, I'm so very sorry. :hugs: I wish you didn't feel like you have to stay strong and would allow yourself a good cry. Life is so strange, isn't it? What wonderful news about DH's job, but to couple it with difficult news seems like a cruel twist. 

Dragon, I hope you both recover soon! Poor Lily. Don't worry about names just yet. You may come across something in an unexpected way that just hits you and you KNOW it's right. :) Random, but I like Odin. It kind of goes with the twins' names.


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## DragonflyWing

I failed my 3 hour glucose tolerance test (by just 4 points :(), so I've been diagnosed with gestational diabetes :cry: 

I have to make an appointment with the diabetes clinic to talk to a dietician and learn how to test my blood sugar. I'm so upset...and DH is going to be mad. He thinks my sweet tooth caused it, which isn't true!


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## Kellen

Dragon - I am so sorry to hear about poor Lily and your glucose test. I hope that your DH is understanding and supportive of you during this rather stressful time. But how exciting to feel a baby moving in you again. I agree with Wamommy - You will find a name that is just right when the time comes. Have you found out the gender or are you waiting to be surprised?

Wamommy - Your girls and Max are so funny. I think the sibling fighting is one main reason I am not wanting another one right away. I always saw my friends fighting with their siblings and I was always really glad that I didn't have to compete for attention or watch other people play sports.

I am doing a little better with my mom's diagnosis. It is endometrial cancer so they are talking about a hysterectomy. We are hoping that it is being caught early and that it can all be removed before it spreads. My great-grandmother on my mom's dad's side died of advanced endometrial cancer, but the poor woman didn't even realize how she became pregnant until boy #3 came along. She was also told that my great-uncle (her 8th and last boy) was a tumor when she was pregnant.

In other news Teagen is 100% day potty trained. 90% of the time she doesn't pee at night, but on the rare night (last night) when she sleeps for 12 hours straight her pull-up is slightly damp. But other than that we go to town in underwear and can actually wear pants as well without having an accident.

DH is down in our old town today taking a drug test and a physical. Once the results are sent in to his HR manager she will give him a ship-out date. I can't believe this is actually happening! And we found out that once he gets his 3rd's there is a continual opening for a 3rd on a federal dredge in Portland. So instead of having to fly to work I could just drive him up and drop him off.


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## DragonflyWing

Yep we found out the gender, it's a boy :). The funny thing is, I have a ton of girl names that I love! :haha: Unfortunately we're having a tough time with boy names, but I'm sure we'll find something we both like. 

That's great that Teagen is completely day-trained! :happydance: 

We're having a setback with potty training- since they've been sick, the twins don't have much interest in the potty. Although this morning Lily clapped and cheered for me when I peed :haha: 

I woke up this morning with a terrible sore throat, and when I checked, I can see that I have a bunch of blisters in my throat just like the twins had...great. Just when Lily got over the worst of it, Gunnar got it. Now he's on the mend, and it's my turn. I'm sure DH will come next. I thought I had it last week, but this is much worse. *sigh*


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## wamommy

Dragon, I hope you feel better! That sounds like no fun at all. BOO about the glucose test. What a pain. It sounds like you're right on the bubble though, so it should be fairly manageable. If a sweet tooth caused gestational diabetes, I would be the poster child. Dingbat DH.

Kellen, hurray for diaper-free day time!! Well done, Teagen. :) Also, my Mom had a hysterectomy about 9 years ago for different reasons, but the surgery was ok and the recovery wasn't TOO bad. I hope they can get it all before it spreads. I'm so sorry she (and you) have to deal with this. Bleh. Cancer sucks.

My girls started school on Wednesday. My 6-year-old is an expert now, and she wasn't nervous at all. She knew where to go and waved at all of the other teachers as we walked in. It's the 4-year-old that makes me SUPER nervous! She was so nervous on her first day that she threw up... :( Luckily my older daughter's teacher from last year requested that we transfer our younger daughter into her class so she can keep an extra close eye on her. Still, as I drove away on the first day of school I sobbed my brains out. What the heck?? I couldn't wait for a little time to breathe and some quiet, and now that they're gone I miss them terribly and am pretty sad? Motherhood is weird.


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## DragonflyWing

Thanks- things only got worse from there. I was pretty much completely debilitated for 2 days with fever, joint pain, and weakness...then I got the blisters ALLLLLLLL over. It seriously looks like chicken pox, I'm covered from head to toe, especially my scalp, face, and hands. It's very itchy and painful. Thankfully, the fever and body aches went away, so I don't feel as crappy overall.

I'm stuck in the house until the blisters go away, as apparently I'm very contagious until then.


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## Kellen

Aw, Dragon... sorry about the horrible blisters, but congrats on the boy! Poor Lily... I hope that your DH didn't take the gestational diabetes too hard.

Wamommy - Your girls are adorable. Funny how when you are apart from your children things seem so empty.

DH took Teagen this morning and kept her at home while I opened the shop. We don't have any grooming clients until this afternoon and then we will switch.

GREAT NEWS! My mom is cancer free. The doctor's can't really explain it, but all her symptoms are gone and the two biopsy's they did came back negative. She still goes in for an D&C just to make sure.


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## wamommy

Kellen said:


> GREAT NEWS! My mom is cancer free. The doctor's can't really explain it, but all her symptoms are gone and the two biopsy's they did came back negative. She still goes in for an D&C just to make sure.


:happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance::happydance: :yipee::yipee:
SOOO amazing!!! Yay!!


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## wamommy

I just got a phone call from my daughters' school that my 4-year-old is in the nurse's office being watched for a concussion after a recess accident... :( She IS severely accident prone, but I'm also worried that starting her in Kindergarten this year might have been too early. She's 5 in 2 months, so she isn't THAT much younger than the other kids, but I'm afraid it's causing anxiety and she'll end up hating school. Ugh...

I've also been struggling with a bout of pretty yucky depression. I'm feeling so incredibly under appreciated. I feel like I work all day and then all night too, and everything I do is invisible. Oh those toilets? They clean themselves. That dinner? It magically appeared in front of you. Those clean clothes? The magic fairy came and delivered them nice and folded into your closet... Meanwhile DH sleeps in a separate room so the kids don't disturb HIS sleep, sleeps in while I get all 4 kids ready for school/the day, hasn't cooked or done dishes in weeks, and spaces out on his cell phone or laptop most of the day. I'm at my wits end.


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## helena

Oh my Kellen, what amazing news about your mum! Do you think maybe it was misdiagnosed? 
It's wonderful whatever!! Xxxxx

Wow I wish my mums cancer would go :( I go home later this week to visit her. Time really isn't on our side and I have been feeling very emotional about it recently. I think since my boys went back to school this week I have had more time to slow down and think. It's all so unfair, how can I ever live without her? Kind of want to throw a massive tantrum but know its pointless. The bond between child and mum is amazing. I literally can't stand the idea of being without her in the world, it seems impossible that I can be without her, I feel like a child, just horrid. I feel panicked and scared. 
I just need to go back and hug her. Chemo has been hard recently on her. 
Sorry to be depressing.

In Kiara news, she just learnt to ride a scooter :) and she just chose her own boots in H&M - patent long boots covered in photos of kittens, dog and rabbits! The girl has style :). https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_ebf2fd11-4145-41b1-823d-5ef30e518c8c.jpg


Wamommy, no wonder you are feeling down, DH needs to pull himself together, you need support and sleep. You have too much on your hands to do it without him being fully hands on. Talk to him before you get further depressed and you will all suffer. He needs to put effort in before things hope wrong. You deserve support xxxxxx


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## Kellen

Life has been crazy here. The doctors haven't completely ruled out cancer, but the biopsy did come back negative. The mamogram came back normal too.

Teagen has recently named herself: Ta-Ta. Which, oddly enough, was what I called myself as a toddler. Ever day she surprises us with a new word or phrase that she has picked up from somewhere. Her signing continues to become more clearly defined as well.

Her new favorite word to say however, is CAT! With great emphasis as she attempts to scale the kitty's 6'5" tower. My child is a climbing fanatic and it is terrifying.

Sierra - How are things? We miss you!


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## wamommy

Helena, I can't imagine how tough it is with your Mom's illness right now. I'm so sorry! :hugs: I think your feelings are just a testament to how much you love her, and totally understandable. I know things won't probably get easier, but I wish strength and hope for you and your family. You are such a strong woman!!!

Kiara's boots are ADORABLE, by the way. Well done, Kiara!

Kellen, Teagen sounds like she's doing great! Max doesn't climb at all, thanks to a couple of super-tumbles off of the couch. He's pretty cautious, and I'm not complaining! 

Max said, "I love you" back to me today! I about melted into the floor in a pile of Mommy proudness and emotional puddledom.

Also, My dad came to visit us last weekend. I hadn't seen him in 6 years. It was GREAT, and I'm so glad to have reconnected with him. He's a lawyer/author who has an amazing career, but has 6 estranged children from 4 of 7 marriages! It was all brought on by telling my sister (who passed it along to my Dad) that my 4-year-old asked me recently, "Mommy, is your Daddy dead?" Gulp... At least now they know him!


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## DragonflyWing

The thread has been so quiet lately! Hope everyone is doing well.

I have my confirmed c-section date...if baby stays put until then, his birthday will be November 17th :). I'm going for a tour at the hospital this evening to check out the birthing center and postpartum rooms.

I can't remember if I told you already, but I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes a few weeks ago. After two weeks of careful eating and testing my blood sugars, my after-meal numbers have been great. However, my fasting blood sugar is still high, so today they put me on insulin injections :(. Kind of nervous about the needles. That also means I have to get weekly NSTs from now until the baby is born.

In happier news, tomorrow is my birthday! Can't believe I'll be 31, that's how old my mom was when she had my youngest sister, and I remember that like it was yesterday. DH and I are going out to dinner tonight, and my sister is watching the twins. It'll be the first time we've gone out together since my last birthday!


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## helena

Hi all,
Wow 17 Nov doesn't seem do far away at all dragon!! Exciting times :)

I have flu. Or a big cold. No fun at all. Procures being a mum there is no time to stop and recover, I am such a hero ;) Kiara has it too, poor little sausage. I wish she could just learn to blow her nose - she won't let me near her with the nasal spray.

Visit to see my mum was ok. We watched my cousin on the tv - he was part of the Invictus games basket ball team who beat the USA to get gold medal :) he was captain, we are all so proud.
His daughter made it into international news too: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/harry-becomes-prince-charming-sweeps-4284559. 

Saying bye to my mum at the end of our visit was horrendous, so so so upsetting I can't even explain. It felt different to other times and we both didn't want to let go. Gosh life is tough some times.


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## wamommy

:cake:Happy Birthday, Dragon!!!:cake:

I hope you and DH have a great time celebrating!

Helena, I'm so sorry goodbye was tougher this time with your Mom. :hugs: Your cousin is very impressive! What a story. :) The bad cold has blown through our house as well, and it stinks! I know it's impossible to NOT get sick with older kids in school, but it's the little ones who seem the most miserable with it. Max has been up the last few nights coughing so hard that he can't sleep. :( He has also discovered how to pick his own nose, and I keep finding "presents" from his nose on the furniture, the carpet, etc... :sick:

Sierra, I hope all is well! Hopefully you're happily busy with the move. :)


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## Kellen

Helena - I'm glad you had a good trip, but I'm sorry to hear about your mom and how difficult it was to leave. I wish I could just give you a hug. I had a brief taste of that horribleness and my heart just goes out to you.

Dragon - I can't believe you only have a little more than 2 months to go. What are the chances of us seeing a nice bump picture? The twins sound so adorable. I'm sorry you are having a difficult time with the gestational diabetes... ugh.

Wamommy - Poor Max. Colds are the worst, but school seems to bring out all the bugs!

Teagen has chicken pox. Yep. She is a a small spotted person with a mild fever and really, really short fingernails right now. She is also super cranky, which is amazing because DH left last Sunday to go join his boat. I am very happy for him since he is now working towards his goal, but he had to leave on our anniversary and the day we noticed Teagen had the chicken pox. Thankfully my mom is staying up here with us until DH gets back sometime in October.

My grandmother has received an offer on her house so now she is frantically packing 89 years worth of stuff and planning to move on up to the big house. A few weeks ago she accidentally left an outside facet on all night and burned up the well pump. Since then she has decided that she doesn't want to live upstairs all alone so DH, Teagen and I are re-packing all of our stuff from downstairs (where we have been living since July) and are moving upstairs. I'm actually really okay with the move as it basically gives us our own 2300 sqft apartment.

The business is doing well. DH was very concerned with the initial quality of one of the groomers we hired, but I convinced him to stick it out and she is doing an amazing job! Even with paying a second person 50% commission we are going to make rent and all the business bills.


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## DragonflyWing

Poor Teagen!! I hope she feels better soon! Chicken pox is no fun, although if she has to get it, it's probably good to get it over with so young. I had it when I was 7, and it was pretty bad...but my mom had it at the same time (she was 25) and it was _awful_. The older you are, the worse it is. So glad to hear the business is going well, and that your grandmother got an offer on her house :) I hope your DH is enjoying his new job.

I will try to take a bump pic today or tomorrow! It feels almost as big as the twins at the same time (at this point I was actually already in the hospital about to have them!), which is odd, because I'm measuring on target, and with them I was measuring full term already. Only 53 days to go! Whoa, that's scary.


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## Kellen

Woot! I am glad that the baby is measuring on track. Have you come up with any names for the little fella yet?

I am super glad that Teagen has the chicken pox now rather than when she is older. I also had them around 7 and was miserable. It wasn't the itching that really got to me, but rather the sore throat. Poor little thing is so congested and plugged up that naps are really short, which makes for a really cranky baby. And she is missing her Daddy and wants him at night for comfort instead of me - but I'm the only one here right now.

It is finally raining here! It has been so dry that several more fires have popped up, but I am hoping that this rain helps the fire fighters get some of the blazes under control. 

Sierra - I hope life is settling down for you and that we hear from you soon.


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## SierraJourney

Hi ladies! Sorry it's been so long! Life has been soooooo stressful! We sold our house very quickly, then had no where to I've for a month while we closed in the new house. I ended up living with the mil! I'm not nearly caught up on all of the posts here, but I hope you all are doing well! I'm just settling into the new house and there is a contractor here redoing the bathroom. .so a bit chaotic. I missed you all though! !!


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## DragonflyWing

Good to hear from you, Sierra! I hope things start settling down soon so you can relax :)

Haha, Kellen, no names yet! We have a list of names that are _just ok_, but none that we both love. DH is pushing hard for Thorvald or Magnus, but I can't picture calling my baby either of those names. I really like Ronan and Asher, but DH hates those. Soooo....we may end up picking something that we're lukewarm about.

Went to the doctor today, and they increased my insulin dosage :( So no I have to inject myself twice a day in addition to poking my finger 4 times a day.


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## Kellen

Sierra - Hooray for an easy house sale... Boo on rooming with the MIL. Glad that you are getting moved in and fixing stuff up. 

Dragon - Boo hiss! So sorry you are having to up the dosage. That doesn't sound any fun.

In other news I have revised my diagnosis of Teagen... it is/was the 3 day Measles. She never had the scabs like chicken pox, and the dots really only appeared on her face and chest which syncs up with rubella nicely. I also think she is getting her 2 year old molars in... fun times!


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## helena

Is that roseola? We had that once. Much better than chicken pox - for my boys that was just awful. Hope she is feeling better.
I thought we were vaccinated against rubella? MMR? 


Hope everyone is ok. Happy new home Sierra!! Xx


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## wamommy

Sierra, so glad to hear all is well! I'm glad you survived a month with your MIL. :haha: I hope life slows down a little for you so you can relax. How is Camden doing?

Kellen, I'm sorry about Teagen being ill! NO FUN. I hope she gets better soon. How are things with DH gone? When is your grandma moving in?

Dragon, ick on the needles. When I was going through IVF (did I ever tell you guys my first daughter was an IVF baby?) I had to give myself a ton of shots every day, including a HUGE one in my butt. Ugh. I'm glad you're able to manage it yourself, though. I actually like Magnus AND Ronan. DH wanted Magnus when Max was born, but he is so dark that it just didn't fit. I liked Ronan for Luca, but DH said it sounded like "Ronin" which is kind of derogatory in Japanese culture, apparently. :shrug: You'll find the perfect name. :)

As for us, Max is doing really well. He just got over a terrible cold (flu?) and finally slept a full night last night and the night before, but now LUCA has it... grrr. Having older kids in school makes it truly impossible to stay well. I'm still having a miserable time with DH, but am taking care of myself a lot better. I'm eating healthier foods and working out every day. I've been doing some crazy cross training and am probably in the best shape I've been in in YEARS. If only there wasn't 10 pounds of fat hiding all of that gorgeous muscle... :haha:


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## SierraJourney

Thanks ladies! Camden is doing very well! The transitions were hard for him, but I think the moving and chaos was actually good for him because now he actually can nap in louder places and falls asleep on his own much better! He has even started to tell me when he us going "poo poo"! I'll be starting potty training with him as soon as I buy a seat! We are having some behavior issues--do any of your lo's actually YELL back at you when you admonish them? Camden does this everyone we tell him not to do something. ... :shrug:

I'm actually getting over shingles 4oght now... the stress of the move made my immune system low and shingles to pop up.. lovely. Feeling much better now. Oh how u have missed you ladies!


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## helena

Wamommy, when do you find time to work out every day???...started a new diet today. Want to lose 10kilos before Christmas.....5 atleast. A diet has never worked for me before, I am rubbish at sticking to them!


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## DragonflyWing

SierraJourney said:


> We are having some behavior issues--do any of your lo's actually YELL back at you when you admonish them? Camden does this everyone we tell him not to do something. ... :shrug:

Gunnar does this sometimes, but the issue we're having right now is that when we pick him up to take him somewhere he doesn't want to go, he yells, kicks, and hits. He basically turns into a furious ball of flailing fists and feet, which can get interesting when I'm trying to keep from getting socked in the stomach. It mostly happens when we're taking him to time-out for something else he's done, lol. I think he thinks it's funny, and doesn't quite understand that he can hurt someone, because when I say "ow!" and tell him he hurt me, he stops immediately and says he's sorry. Doesn't keep him from doing it the next time, though!

Here's my bump at 31 weeks...smaller than with the twins, but still starting to get pretty big!
 



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## wamommy

Dragon, you are so cute!! I can't believe you're already 32 weeks. Time is flying like crazy!

Max doesn't usually argue back with us or have fits, but when he does it's almost comical. He flaps his arms like a bird and says "gee gee gee gee." He looks like a cartoon and I have to stop myself from laughing and try to correct his behavior, lol. For the most part if I say, "Max! Please don't touch that." He looks at me, thinks about it, and moves on to something else. Once in a while he smiles coyly and touches whatever it is anyway, and then runs away... Weird kid. 

Sierra, shingles sounds so painful! I'm glad it's easing up a bit. How is the new house?

Helena, I am totally the same with dieting. I don't believe in it at all. I've watched DH gain and lose the same 30 pounds several times since we've been married, because he always does these extreme diets and then when he stops it comes back on! I just took out some of my worst habits, like candy at night once the kids are in bed. :dohh: I have also tried to increase my protein and eat less processed food. I figure that if I make one positive change a week I'm on the right track! As for exercising, I do it in my living room once the girls are at school and Luca is napping. I wish I had time to go to a proper gym, but I've honestly found a workout that challenges me more than anything I've done so far. There's a new p90x video out called p90x3, and each one is only 30 minutes. I just force myself to do it every day, and I've FINALLY started to see some results, after trying a few other videos (no one uses videos anymore...lol...I'm old. It's actually on a memory stick) I have found my forever workout plan. I can actually DO pushups and pullups now. It's kind of empowering. :D

How are everyone's LOs sleeping? Max still ends up in my bed around 1am every night and then stays there the rest of the night... :dohh: He waked up every couple of hours still, too. Is this normal? I need to find a way to transition him to at LEAST a crib, and hopefully a toddler bed soon.


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## DragonflyWing

Lily goes to sleep on her own in her crib, and almost always sleeps through the night- usually 9pm-7:30am. Gunnar still needs to be held to go to sleep, and he sleeps through about 75% of the time, 9:30pm-8am (I usually put Lily down first so I can relax with Gunnar on the couch, so he ends up going to sleep a little later). Around 25% of the time, he wakes up in the night and needs to be rocked back to sleep, or DH takes him in the spare bedroom and they go back to sleep there. 

How are naps going for everyone else? We're down to one nap a day, around noon, that lasts about 2 hours. I've been thinking about pushing it a little bit later, as the twins tend to start melting down around 7-8pm, and I wonder if it's because they are napping too early.


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## helena

Hi all,
Wow wamommy, well done on the working out. Maybe I will check that workout out. Day five of dieting going ok. It's just sensible eating I guess. No biscuits, cake etc. but ofcourse I can have the odd treat at the weekend :)

Kiara has tantrums sometimes and shouts "no!" And looks at me from under her eyebrows with a big pout on. It's actually very cute. If I stop her doing something she really wants she will scream and have a tantrum. She sometimes ends up laying face down having a tantrum to herself. I just leave her to it if I can. If we are out a quick tickle snaps her out of it. She seems to be less highly strung than my boys, in that distracting her or tempting her back into a good mood by laughing and tickling or playing is easier. She is naturally quite a smiley girl. My six year old however can still have some amazingly grumpy outbursts. But not in public anymore than god!
In my experience the Terrible Twos go on from 1.5 to 2.5. It will all work out soon..I hope! :)

Kiara is a great sleeper. Bed at 7.30 ish and sleeps until 6 or 7. She shares a room with my 4 year old and they go to bed giggling and shouting to each other. I am in no hurry to get her in a toddler bed. I know she will be out right away. I will keep her in he the "cage" as long as possible. Especially since it works so well. I think she could climb out if it assays to for her sleeping bag but she hasn't tried. She naps in her cot each afternoon for two hours ish without complaining now too. She likes her bed. My first son always hated sleep. Still does, fights going to bed and gets up early. My second son loves sleeping and loves his cosy bed. I am hoping Kiara will be like him. After my first son didn't sleep through for two years I was so amazed when I then got a baby who slept!!seemed such an angel.
I don't think I treated them any different. Maybe I co slept with the first more. I was so scared that my other babies would be bad sleepers I didn't really co sleep much.
Kiara does wake up sometimes. Last night she did, I am wondering if it's the big final molars since she just woke crying in the night, then she came in to us so not to wake her brother. Then she sleeps great, after a few minutes of stroking my face! Funny girl.

Any weekend plans? There is a fun run in our village and my 6 year old wants to run in the race for his age group so that's what we will be watching on Sunday :)


What's your LOs favourite dinner right now? Kiara just loves roast chicken legs. She nibbles it all and just leaves a bone at the end. Makes for some cute pictures :)


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## SierraJourney

The new house is great! Much smaller, so it's hard to fit everything in, but so much easier to clean! And being a stay at home mom is such a dream come true! 

Camden usually sleeps through the night 7:30pm to 6:15, however lately he's been up 3-4 times in the night...I think he's getting more teeth, too. Camden is still taking two naps a day...one in the morning for about an hour and one in the afternoon for an hour. How did you gals know when to switch to one nap? He seems content with two. 

Bought a potty seat the other day since Camden keeps saying "poo poo!" Every time he goes poop in his diaper. So far, he doesn't want to stay seated on the potty long enough to have aNY luck. .. any tips?


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## wamommy

I'm so jealous of your awesome sleepers! Honestly, my girls were SO bad that Max seems like an angel in comparison, lol. I also solved a major problem with Luca that has (so far) been like a miracle. It turns out he was cold! I thought the temperature was fine, and he wears a sleep sack, but he was getting up screaming constantly through the night. We went and bought the warmest, fuzziest sleepers we could find and last night he only woke twice! :D 

As for naps, Max is down to one also. He sleeps for an hour to an hour and a half at around noon. We didn't conciously switch him to one, but he started skipping his morning nap on his own and then slowly moved his afternoon nap earlier. I just followed his lead and let him sleep when he seemed tired. Sierra, if Camden is happy with 2 naps, yay! I'd just do whatever works.

Helena, your son's run sounds fun! We don't have any plans this weekend, but it's supposed to be sunny so we'll probably go bike riding or to the zoo or something. Once the rainy, cold season sets in (which could be any day) it'll be indoor activities for MONTHS on end, so I want to get outside while we can!

Max's favorite foods are grapes and blueberries. He could eat a ton of them, but I can only give him a small bowl at a time or he gets... ahem... digestive issues. He cries for more though, lol. Besides that he loves yoghurt and broccoli. Not together... :dohh: It's tough getting protein in him because he doesn't like meat, beans or cheese! I have to sneak things into his diet to try to balance it. He's a grazer too, and never eats more than a handful of anything at a time.

I've started listing a bunch of baby stuff online and am selling things little by little. It's so nice to start clearing out the million bins of kid stuff that clog my closets! It's kind of sad to finalize the "no more babies!" thing, but seriously... there will be no more babies. I may as well make a place for my vacuum...


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## DragonflyWing

Favorite foods for us right now: grapes, clementines, blueberries. They don't eat much meat, but they do like cheese and beans, so I hope they get enough protein.

I'm doing twice weekly doctor visits now- which are actually a whoooole bunch of different appointments squeezed into two days. Regular OB checkups twice weekly, NSTs twice weekly, ultrasound to check fluid levels once weekly, and diabetes clinic once weekly. I'm having to miss a lot more work than I'd like to. I was hoping to build up enough time off to take an extra week at the end of my maternity leave, but it's looking unlikely now, so I'll just have the 8 weeks. Boo!

Baby is measuring 5lb4oz already, and he's in the 71st percentile. Here's a profile pic from today :)
 



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## wamommy

Oh my gosh, he's CUTE, Dragon! If I'm not mistaken, he looks a little like the twins, doesn't he? So cool. Your appointment schedule sounds miserable, but at least you're in the home stretch. Hang in there! I used to just look at NSTs as a break and bring a book to read... lol. 

My Mom came to visit a couple of days ago and I ended up with some pretty awesome blackmail material for when Max is older. Ahh, the joys of having older sisters. :) :haha:
 



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## DragonflyWing

Haha that picture is priceless!


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## DragonflyWing

I'm working at home today, and occasionally the twins try to talk to me through the door (a lot of the time I think they forget I'm in here lol). So I had just hung up the phone, and Lily knocked on the door.

Lily: Mama?
Me: Yes?
Lily: Pick up!
Me: Sorry honey, Mama is working right now.
Lily: Kiss you?
Me: You want to kiss me?
Lily: Kiss your face!
Me: Well, ok then.

Haha! How can you resist that? I took a break for some kisses and snuggles.


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## helena

How very lovely Dragon!


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## helena

Hi all,
Hoping you have had a good week?

I finally got around to getting Kiara her 18 month check up and MMR vacine. Oh my...I haven't heard anyone scream so much at the doctors, ever. Even before the injection Kiara was bonkers, refused to stand so the doctor could measure her height (maybe 80cm, maybe 82, who knows!?) screamed while doctor tired to listen to her chest, and as soon as the doc turned to the cabinet where she keeps the needles she went even more crazy shouting No No No no....I had to hold her down. Just awful. Nod because I was late going to get it done it means her two year ones are only three months away :wacko: I might ask DH to take her!!
The only thing I really worked out was that she was 11kg or 24 lbs. ish.

Otherwise all is fine here. Today the sun is shining and I have just been in the garden planting an apricot tree. We have planted a fruit tree for each of our babies and Kiara hadn't had hers yet so this week I bought the apricot tree. My boys both have apple trees. Hopefully Kiara will like apricots...current favourite thing in the world is raspberries. She is stating "don't like it" far too often now. She only needs to hear one of her brothers say it at dinner time and suddenly Kiara "don't like it" either.... It was rice the other day :growlmad:then my casserole.:shrug:

Have been on a diet for almost three weeks now. Am 6lbs down so pleased but hoping it will keep going down. This 6lbs takes me to where I was before Kiara. I feel the next chunk of weight will be harder to lose. I am not eating pasta, white bread or potatoes as much as I sued to. Oh wow I love carbs .....but I don't think they love me!

Finding out on Monday how my mums latest scans have gone..scarey times. Then the whole family is back off to England to see her and my inlaws the week after. It's been ages since we all travelled together so that will be nice. 

Have a happy weekend ladies xxxx


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## wamommy

So cute, Dragon! Lily sounds like such a sweetie. :)

Helena, well done with the diet!! I'm admittedly jealous! I've been at it since the 4th of July, and have lost only 7 pounds since then! :growlmad: 

Kiara sounds hilarious. I know it's terribly tough when it's your own baby, but I take a little pleasure in other people's kids having meltdowns. I feel like, "phew, it's not just my kid who does that!" :haha: Actually, Max is really mellow until right after the shot when he cries until I swoop him up for a cuddle... then he stops. He's SO different than my girls. They both were a lot like Kiara! If it's any consolation, now they both take shots like it's nothing.

Speaking of.... I got a phone call last Friday at lunch time that started off with, "this is the nurse at the primary school, is this Elise's mom?" Gulp. She fell off the monkey bars and broke her wrist. :( We spent the afternoon at the ER and the next Monday at the orthopedic surgeon. She doesn't need surgery, thank goodness, but will be in a (hot pink!) cast for 6 weeks. She was SUCH a trooper. So Kiara might not always hate the Doctor!


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## DragonflyWing

Oh no, poor girl! I hope her wrist heals as quickly and painlessly as possible.


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## helena

Sorry to hear that wamommy. But hot pink? Pretty cool!!


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## DragonflyWing

35 weeks! Less than 4 weeks to go until my c-section. :wacko:
 



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## wamommy

Oh my gosh, Dragon, you're so close!! You look amazing. :) How does it feel to be 35 weeks pregnant? It must seem like an eternity after a shorter pregnancy with the twins. You're truly in the home stretch!

Here's my little trooper with her pink badge of honor. :haha:
 



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## DragonflyWing

It does feel like a loooong pregnancy! :haha: For the most part, it has been a lot easier than last time, but it is getting quite uncomfortable in these later weeks. I get BH contractions every 4-5 minutes for hours every night, and the SPD/PGP is making it pretty difficult to sleep comfortably or be very mobile. 

However, it's really cool to feel the baby make such big movements (by the time the twins were big enough, they had run out of room to move!), it's like watching huge waves go across my belly. I also get lots of baby hiccups, which are cute. 

He's already estimated to be about 7 pounds! He's going to be a big chubby baby, I think.

I love the picture with the cast! What a cutie :)


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## Kellen

Oh wow! Shots and casts and pregnant pictures! Quite a lot has been going on here... 

Last week my grandmother finally moved ALL of her stuff into the new house... eek! The movers told her she didn't need to empty the old refrigerator and that they could move it with all the food inside and turn it on when it was installed. Well, she didn't listen and packed all the food in coolers - but no ice packs. When she got to the house she was worried that the food was going to spoil so she had me fetch some ice packs from the freezer upstairs. While bringing down an arm load one slipped and I tried to catch it with my foot... and broke my ankle.

Teagen is gaining lots of new words everyday. Mostly she says "yes" but "no" is beginning to enter into the conversation as well. Right now one of her favorite words is "stuck." If something is broken or doesn't work how she thinks it should it is promptly labeled as stuck. 

Her favorite toy is her shape sorter... and bubbles. I have to hide the bubbles because she will sit and cry about the bubbles being all gone. But she does a good job with the shapes and enjoys talking about the colors and textures. Coloring is still a favorite here too.

DH is still on the boat, which is great. It has helped our finances a LOT! He has at least another two weeks before they get back to port. Poor man is working from 6pm to 6am and is bored. His tasks for last night was to mop the galley floor. According to him the galley is a great big 10'x15' area and it took a whole 5 minutes.


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## wamommy

Oh no, Kellen! I'm so sorry about your ankle! :( How are you doing getting around with Teagen and a cast? NOT FUN!

Max has started in with the "No" big time. Tonight at dinner he threw an entire spoon full of food across the table and yelled, "no beans!" Sigh... What's funny is he also says "stuck" a lot. He's constantly trying to take everything apart, and if it won't come apart it's stuck. He does another weird thing. A long time ago he hurt his toe and it was his first experience of pain. Now whenever he gets hurt he says, "Mama!! My toe!" even if it's his head that got bonked. :haha:


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## DragonflyWing

That's funny! The twins first experience with pain was an earache, and now anytimes something hurts, they point to their ears and say "hurt!" 

It makes it challenging to figure out what actually hurts!

Kellen, what awful luck with your ankle! Do you have to wear a cast?


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## Kellen

No cast for me. I have a reinforced brace that I wear whenever I am not sleeping. It hurts, but it isn't bad enough for surgery. There will always be a little piece of bone floating on the top of my foot. Lovely...

Teagen is obsessed with owies too, but she is more fixated on the fact that I had a sore on the inside of my lip than any owie she has ever had. I think it might be because she had to have so many heel pricks as a newborn.

All weekend whenever I would ask Teagen: "How old are you?" She would turn, smile at me and say: "THREE!" Lol, silly girl no growing up so fast. Finally I got it to where she will hold up one finger and say: "One." However, she is not as enthused about being 1 as she was about being 3.


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## DragonflyWing

Happy Halloween!





(Lily just wanted to hug and kiss the monkey hat! :haha:)
 



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## Kellen

What precious babies, Dragon. Lily is beautiful and Gunnar looks like he is all boy! What a stunning pair. 

We don't typically do Halloween, but all the Downtown Merchants open their doors from 4-6 for the little kids to come by and get candy. So my grandmother wanted candy.... So I allowed her to take Teagen in the stroller and slapped my work polo on Teagen, gave her her stuffed puppy and a brush and said: TADA! She's a groomer! She came back with bubbles and was quite happy. I love my grandmother, but she is 89 so I felt that the stroller was a safer option than allowing her to just hold Teagen's hand and walk. Normally she walks with a cane for stability so I didn't want Teagen knocking her down.

We just found out yesterday that Teagen's dog has a potential heart murmer. What this means is that when it fully manifests we have around 18 months before she passes away. I'm kind of having a hard time with this because I know how absolutely devastated Teagen will be. This dog loves her beyond all else. On Wednesday we brought the dog to the shop for a bath. When Teagen laid down for a nap Sis refused to leave. About an hour into the nap Teagen rolled off the bed, but Sis had positioned herself as a slide and Teagen barely woke up and ended up taking a 3 hour nap. It was amazing. Then, this morning, Teagen was fussing (after sleeping for 12.5 hours... YES!) so Sis ran up to her room and snuggled her until I hobbled up the stairs.

But in other news Teagen and I have airline tickets to Texas for Thanksgiving. We also have a reservation for a rental car so I don't go crazy. Given I have no idea where I am going, but I have GPS on my phone. We will find things to do and other people to see...


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## wamommy

What gorgeous babies, Dragon! I love the pic of Lily with the monkey hat. Too cute! I agree that Lily looks so much like a little lady and Gunnar is growing up into such a handsome boy!

Kellen, I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. :( She sounds like an amazing member of your family. We have cats (who are NOWHERE near as wonderful with my kids as Sis is with Teagen) and I worry that someday they'll get sick and I'll have to explain some really large concepts to some really innocent little creatures. I've already dealt with my 4-year-old's obsession with dying. She actually asked me once, "Mommy, how many birthdays do I have left?" Yikes...

We had a great Halloween, if not a little crazy. I went in to my daughters' school and volunteered at each of their classes' Halloween parties. I was at the cookie decorating station in Kindergarten and the popcorn-filled-glove station at the 1st grade party. :dohh: I have SO MUCH respect for anyone who teaches young kids. I couldn't do it. I was exhausted after only 2 hours! We also went Trick-or-treating around the neighborhood. Luca slept in his carrier and Max was in a hiking back pack on his Dad's back. He was able to say, "Teat-a-teat!!" and collected an amazing amount of candy. The girls would have gone all night but luckily the buckets got full and we came home, ate pizza and watched a bit of Halloween Dora, and crashed out. We did get the "BEST HALLOWEEN EVER!!!" exclamation from the girls, so I think it was a good day. :)


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## SierraJourney

Hi ladies! Quick question,.... have you transitioned your lo to a blanket and pillow in bed? We're still using sleepsacks and I'm worried about transitioning...I'm not sure when to and also, he hates it when we cover him with a blanket on the couch or anything. ..just never has an interest in one. Pretty soon the sleepsacKS will be too small though! What do you do?

Hope all is well!!


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## Kellen

Teagen is wearing nightgowns to bed and she loves them... However, I have to keep the heat on 73* at night because she too HATES to be covered. Tonight she is sleeping with a pillow for the first time because her nose is so stuffy she can hardly breathe. I managed to convince her that being propped up on her daddy's pillow will give her sweet dreams. But the covers are a mystery...


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## SierraJourney

Aww maybe they don't like being inhibited or something? Yikes on the heat! What we do for our babe's
!


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## wamommy

Max hates blankets, too! Weird. He kicks them off and freaks out. Right now he starts out in his crib and I sneak a blanket onto him once he's asleep. At somewhere between midnight and 2am he wakes up and comes to my bed, where he sleeps next to me the rest of the night. I think I probably radiate SOME heat, but maybe he just doesn't mind the cold? Our bedroom is only 67 degrees, and Max wears a thick sleepers (with the feet). No pillow yet!

How is everyone doing?


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## DragonflyWing

We've been using blankets for a long time...Gunnar usually kicks his off sometime during the night, but Lily loves her blanket. She actually drags a blanket around the house with her so she can lie down on it when she gets tired :haha:. Gunnar doesn't sleep with a pillow at night, but sometimes he naps on the couch with one. Lily occasionally asks for a pillow at night, and I give her a firm throw pillow that she can't smother on. I think the risk of smothering is very low now even with a normal pillow, but I still worry.

Anyone else having a growth spurt right now? I think we are...the twins are eating much more often than normal, and their sleep is awful. They haven't been going to bed until around 11pm most nights over the past week, and several times they woke up in the night and were up for hours. Lily slept the whole night in my bed last night because she absolutely refused to go in the crib. I hope whatever it is resolves soon, because I'm exhausted enough as it is!

I had my last OB appointment today, only 1 week until my c-section!! Baby is already measuring 8.5lbs, what a chubster!


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## helena

Hi girls!! It feels like it's been ages. 

We are still using a sleeping bag too. I plan to stay that way until maybe next summer. Here they sell them for up to age 3 or more so there is no hurry. I do use blankets at nap time though, and she is fine with i, but they never stay over her. Might be a good way to transition, using the blanket at nap time first?

Oh dragon, not long to go, do you feel ready!? Do we ever!?

My diet is still on track, have now lost a stone so am very happy :) 

Hugs all round. Xxx


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## wamommy

Well done, Helena!! I bet you look more fab than ever. :)

Round 2 of the flu came barreling through our house and I'm finally starting to recover. I am truly a zombie. 

Max is speaking in full sentences now. It's so funny! He was kind of behind with talking and walking, but now he's having the most fun language explosion. He says things like, "I want a baba, too!" Or "Nina hurt my eye." It's really amazing to watch. This is such a fun age!

How is everyone doing? Dragon, is he here?? I'm so excited to find out his name and if he looks like the twins.

Hugs all around, ladies.


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## helena

I came on to find out about dragon and baby dragon too! Any news?..... X x x


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## wamommy

:yipee::wohoo:Happy Thanksgiving!!!


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## helena

Dragon??? :shrug:

Hoping all is ok and you are no doubt super duper busy busy busy. Thinking of you!!!
Xxx


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## Kellen

Never go to in-laws again. Toddler with food poisoning is no fun. I am a zombie too. Thankfully DH comes home in 13 days...

Dragon? Baby? Sending thoughts your way!


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## SierraJourney

Kellan, we came back with the flu from thanksgiving too... so far, 3 days of vomiting and other such nastiness. .. :/ hope you are surviving okay. Miss you all. Can't wait to hear from Dragon!


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## Kellen

Epic food poisoning at it's worst. Thankfully it wasn't the flu, just yuckies that Teagen had eaten from something. However, now, she is in peril of being murdered by me. She feels so much better that she can't keep her hands off of anything. It is driving me crazy! 

Thankfully she is feeling better and is currently down for a nap. Her language is also exploding! Now she is signing and talking together. It is helpful as some of her words sound identical to other words, but the signs tell another story! Her new word for milk is "gukk." Mommee! Gukk! Guuuuuuk! Pease?


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## DragonflyWing

I'm so sorry for not coming on to update! I haven't had a single spare moment.

Anson Magnus was born on November 17th at 7:56am by scheduled c-section. He was 7lb12oz and 20.5 inches long, and in perfect health :). He was wedged in my pelvis, though, and they had to use a vacuum to pull him out. He had a big bruise on his head for the first couple days...I didn't even know that could happen with a c-section!

We came home from the hospital on 11/20, and breastfeeding is going well. He initially lost 11% of his weight, and the doctor at the hospital insisted that we supplement with formula after each feeding, but as soon as my milk came in fully, he started growing in leaps and bounds. He regained his birth weight by 8 days old, and as of his 2 week appointment yesterday, he's already 8lb11oz! :D 

He does most of his cluster feeding in the middle of the night, which wouldn't be so bad if I was able to nap with him during the day. However, with the twins, that's nearly impossible...so I'm pretty sleep deprived. DH is as well, and is currently down with a migraine triggered by too little sleep. By some miracle, all three kids are asleep right now, and I managed to get online for a few minutes while I shovel some food down my throat. :haha:

As for me, my recovery is going well. I was up and walking around about 8 hours after surgery, and it seems like my mobility came back much faster this time around. Yesterday I took the baby to his 2 week appointment, and I must have overdid it a little (it was the first time I'd been out of the house since we came home), because I was quite sore last night and this morning, but I think it's getting better now.

One funny thing I noticed...while I was on the strong pain killers, taking care of the baby seemed really easy. I didn't mind being up in the night with him, I didn't mind the twins swarming all over me, I didn't mind the cluster feeding. I felt really relaxed and maternal and extra affectionate toward all three kids as well as DH. As soon as I stopped the medication, though, things seemed to get a LOT harder lol. I didn't have that warm haze over everything anymore, and it all seemed really harsh. I'm still having a hard time with nights...cluster feeding in the middle of the night is really lonely and boring and bleak. All I want is to go back to sleep, but the baby wants to eat eat eat, and I have nothing to do and no one to talk to. I have to be quiet and sit in the dark so I don't wake anyone else up.

I'd like to figure out a way to nurse one handed so I can at least read a book or play on my phone. As it is now, my only option is TV, and that doesn't work at night because our only TV is in the room where DH is asleep.

Last but not least, pictures! Here are a few: just a few hours old, me and the baby, the day after he came home in his little santa hat, and just this evening in his default pose. This was his position in every ultrasound, and the reason we could never get a good picture of his face...he always had his hands up in front!
 



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## wamommy

Dragon, Anson is absolutely gorgeous!! Congratulations! I LOVE the name. I'm so glad the birth went well and that he's gaining weight nicely. I totally hear you on the pain of night feedings. A silent, dark house can feel pretty lonely, especially when the morning comes and everyone else is clueless to how difficult your night was. I was the opposite on pain killers. I felt "swimmy" and out of it, and stopped taking them when I left the hospital because I felt like I would do something weird or dangerous, lol. I'm kind of a paranoid control-freak, though, so that could be why.

I can't believe you're a mommy of THREE! I'm so excited for you, Dragon. 

Kellen, I'm sorry to hear about the food poisoning. Yuck. Sick babies are so hard. Mine are all (knock on wood!) finally well at the same time, instead of cycling through illness after illness.

I miss you all and hope you're enjoying this wonderful winter season. :hugs:


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## DragonflyWing

Thank you! I love the name too...we didn't decide until we actually saw him. Anson had been on our list for a while, but it was never a top contender. I had honestly forgotten it was even on the list. On the way to the hospital, we went through the list again to refresh our memories. When the baby was born, we looked at him and agreed that he looked like an Anson. It's grown on me more and more ever since :). I'm so relieved we managed to agree on something!


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## helena

Oh dragon he is beautiful! We'll done!, and he is growing so well!! Top marks mummy.

I rememebr I used to balance Kiara on a pillow while feeding in the night, so I could use my phone or iPad and save myself being too bored. Or I got a load of crappy magazines That needed no brain power.

Will done on the quick recovery too - I also got up within a matter of hours and I swear it aided the recovery.

Keep up the good work xxxx


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## SierraJourney

Congratulations Dragon--he's perfectly precious! I too used to use a boppy pillow to prop baby while nursing so I could play on my phone. ..really helped pass the lonely night feeds!


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## DragonflyWing

Thank you ladies! I do use a boppy pillow while nursing, but I still need one hand on the baby and one hand holding my breast so he doesn't smother or fall off. Once in a while I can get by with one hand using the football hold, but only when I'm propped up in bed with several pillows, so it doesn't work at night (the twins sleep in our bedroom so I nurse in the living room at night). 

Last night, Anson nursed at midnight, 2:30am, and 6am. That actually seemed quite reasonable, he didn't clusterfeed, and I managed about 5 hours of sleep. :)

I have a bit of a sore throat that I'm pretending doesn't exist, because I absolutely can't get sick right now. I have actually started drinking 1-2 cups of coffee each day and it's really helping me feel more human rather than like a sluggish lump. 

I'm quite pleased with my recovery so far. My incision site is still a bit sore, and I seem to be freezing cold all the time, but other than that I feel pretty normal. 

I lost 10 pounds while I was pregnant, and I was interested to see how much I would lose after the baby was born. When we got home from the hospital, I got on the scale and was HORRIFIED to see that I was 8 pounds heavier than the day before the c-section. How had I managed to have an almost 8 pound baby, and yet GAIN 8 pounds?! A day or two later, my feet and ankles puffed up to huge proportions, and I realized I was retaining a ton of water. Over the next 12 days, I lost 30 pounds of fluid, and I'm now 32 pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight. Pregnancy seems to be magical for my metabolism. With the twins, I gained 22 pounds and then lost 27 in the first two weeks postpartum. On the other hand, breastfeeding seems to kill my metabolism. After the twins, I gained all the weight back within a few months after they were born. I'm hoping that doesn't happen again this time!


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## Kellen

Dragon - He is perfect! Such a handsome little fellow. I love the picture with his hands in front of his face: "Not now, Mom!" And I remember how bored I used to get being up with Teagen at night. I finally managed to get a bed pillow and use a boppy and my knees to support her so that I could hang onto a book or phone or kindle.

Teagen is all done being sick. Her appetite has returned with a vengeance. Poor thing lost nearly 5lb due to not being able to keep anything down.

DH comes home next Sunday! I am looking forward to having an extra body around to help out with stuff. Also our primary groomer just found out she is expecting number two... LOL. She - like Wamommy - was on birth control and thought they were done having kiddos for right now. Teagen is fascinated by the concept of a baby growing in her belly.


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## helena

What are we getting our valentines lovelies for Christmas?
Kiara will be getting a pink scooter. With a clip on pink plastic horses head for the front!! :wacko: how much more girly can we get!? She uses her brothers scooters right now and absolutely loves them :thumbup:

She is chatting lots now, finAlly, and it's all "look mummy, look!" Or "I did it! Look, I did it!". We is still very shy and hides when strangers try and talk to her, but I quite like that - she won't be wandering off with a stranger in a hurry!

X x x


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## helena

A couple of updated pics..

My funny girl has decided Alice bands are good. Especially ones with ears on. But she calls all bands "rabbits" now. Even ones that are just a plastic band. Or just a bow. She does make us laugh. https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_imagejpg1-4.jpg

And here we are at our playgroup Christmas party (me in black, green scarf)
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv218/helena1977/th_imagejpg1-5.jpg


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## DragonflyWing

Love the pictures, helena!! :)

The twins are two years old today! I can't believe how the time has flown. We're having a little party for them later, and I will try to get some pictures to share. 

I was up until 3am making ice cream for the party, then Anson had me up again from 5-6:30, and the twins were up for the day at 8. I am dragging!


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## wamommy

Happy Birthday, Lily and Gunnar! I can't believe they're 2! :happydance:

Helena, I LOVE those pics! Kiara is adorable. You look fantastic as well... so stylish! 

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas. Ours was chaotic, but great. We opened presents in the morning (omg, remind me NOT to leave Santa duty until Christmas Eve... SO tiring), and then went to my Mom's house an hour away to spread the craziness around. Everyone was exhausted, but somehow a holiday passed without DH causing a scene or starting a mega-fight! Hurray! Max is in LOVE with Santa now that he knows what Santa does. He says, "Santa, HO HO HO!!" and gets super excited. So cute.

Here's Max, along with a pic of me with Luca and my 5-year-old, and lastly my 6-year-old. Such a good day!

I hope you are all doing well. I know life gets super busy, but I hope to keep in contact with each of you, whom I consider dear friends. :)
 



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## helena

Haha I love Max's bow! :) beautiful children. What gorgeous hair your eldest daughter has.
And I must say, you look too young to have four! :)

Dragon, did you say you were up until 3am making ice cream??? Oh my, can't you buy some? What a model mum :thumbup: hope the party went well? X

We just got back from a week in England. It was super stressful as we stayed in a cottage that had wall made of paper. I felt so stressed every time my little elephants stomped around and woke at 5.30am....
But it was lovely seeing family, especially my mum, and old friends.
But now we are home for a week before they go back to school and work and it feels more like a proper holiday now :happydance:

The kiddies are in bed, my gin and tonic is poured... DH and I will have a nice dine r later and maybe watch my latest obsession- Breaking Bad. Love it! .a nice quiet way to see in the new year for me :)

Happy new year everyone!


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! What lovely photos! Everyone's lo's are such dolls! It's been a while, and for that, I apologize. . . I've been busy settling into the role of stay-at-home-mom-on-a-fixed-budget. . . It's amazing how busy I can be nowadays, and can't imagine the days I worked at home! Our finances are extremely tight since going down to one income, so I feel I'm always budgeting, trying to figure out meals for cheap, doing a lot of freezer storage to save money, etc. I've even started making our own laundry soap and shampoo, trying to cut costs (and I hate the toxins used in most of the cleaners and such these days anyways. . . .)

I can't believe that our lo's are going to be TWO soon! Where did the time go?!

It's also gotten me thinking about another child. . . .but with as colicky of a baby as Camden was, both DH and I are unsure about another----that, and I can't imagine how we could possibly afford one right now. But that being said, we are down to one vehicle right now and I ran out of birth control pills. . . I kept reminding DH to pick them up, but he just got them today. . .so I've been 5 days without birth control and we've dtd TWICE. . . so, I'm a bit worried (excited?) if a "surprise" comes out of it. . . lol. . .I guess we'll see!

Also, anyone else still BF? (I think Kellen was last one in with me last time. .. lol...) I'm STILL BF. . .hoping to wean soon, but with a cute little face looking up at me asking to "Nrrrrssssseeee!", it might be a little hard. ;) He only nurses at night and in the morning, but it's still going to be hard to wean, I think.. . 

So, how is everyone?! 

Dragon, how's handling three little ones? I hope you are doing well!
Wamommy, how's handling FOUR?! How's DH? I hope things are getting better for you two.
Helena, how's your mum doing? How's the kids' school?
Kellen, how's the business going? And DH's new job?
Jo. . .if you're still lurking here. . .how's O?

I'd love to hear how everyone is doing and start chatting a bit more!


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## DragonflyWing

Hi Sierra, we're doing well! Anson is 8 weeks old now, and doing great. He's almost up to 12 pounds now! I'm no longer supplementing with formula, so he's on 100% breastmilk. I went back to work this week, so he's getting bottles of pumped milk while I'm gone, but when I'm home he nurses directly, which is awesome. I never got to do that with the twins, and it is such a lovely bonding experience.

The twins are definitely into the terrible twos! They are so defiant...they laugh as they do exactly what they were just told not to do. They are also talking really well...we have lots of complete sentences, especially from Lily. Funny thing, most of her sentences are her tattling on Gunnar: "Mama, Gunnar threw cup at me!" "AH! Mama, Gunnar sitting on my head!" :haha:

Gunnar loves to sing...among his favorites are Patty Cake, Baba Black Sheep, 5 Little Monkeys, and Twinkle Twinkle. They sound like this:

Patty cake, Patty cake, baker's man
fas' you can!
roll it, pat it, mark it G
put in oven for Daddy, Mama, Lily, me! Yay!

Twinkle little star (sounds like "tranquilizer" LOL)
up above world so high
like diamond in sky
(repeat)

Baba black sheep
How are you?
Yes sir yes sir
(repeat)

5 monkeys jumping bed
Fell off, bump head!
Mama called doctor (docatur ;))
No monkeys jumping bed!

Haha they just kill me.
 



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## SierraJourney

Dragon, the kids sound so great! What smart little twins!

We just started potty training here because almost by accident, I caught Camden trying to pee on the floor before his bath, and put him on the potty. That was a week ago, and he's been going on the potty every 15 minutes when I put him on the potty. He won't ask to go potty, but if i.put him on there, he goes instantly. I'm hoping it sticks and continues to go.smoothly! ;) 

Anyone else potty training?


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## wamommy

Sierra, I'm so glad to hear from you! It sounds like you're doing really well staying at home with Camden. Well done with the potty training! We aren't there yet. Max gets really freaked out when I put him on the potty, so I'm not forcing the issue until he gets a little more confident. Honestly, both of my girls were in diapers until they were almost 3, so I won't worry about until the next birthday approaches. It would be GREAT to save on diapers, though!

It's exciting that you're thinking about another baby, Sierra! What are the chances that it would be another colicky one? And even if it were, they grow out of that into wonderful and fun little humans! I say go for it! It's totally easy for me to say, since I don't have to pay for it or stay up with a new baby again... :haha:

Dragon, the twins are SO cute, and look at Anson! He has such a cute and distinguished little chin. How is his temperament? How are the twins doing with him? I love the songs they sing! I'm glad Max isn't the only one being defiant. Just this morning I told him to sit down on the couch and he said, "No, STOP!" and put his hand up. I had to laugh... He's really cute when he's trying to be serious.

As for us, life has been CRAZY lately! DH went to Hawaii for a week with my Dad (weird) and they are BFFs now. It's super weird to me. I hadn't seen my Dad in 6 years, and now he's been up to visit every month the past 3 months and is helping DH deal with his parents' house in Hawaii and trying to convince us to move to California to be near him. Who knows what the future will hold, but everything is really in transition right not. The week DH was gone was super tough. Boy, 4 kids is enough work when you HAVE a partner (even one doing 25% of the work). Suddenly showering or using the restroom became a luxury and the house went to pot. I am about 4 loads of laundry and 20 hours of sleep behind... but the kids survived!

I'm excited about Max's birthday! What are everyone's plans for the big #2? I think we'll just eat cake here and take him to the park, but that's his ideal day anyhow. Except the cake part. He doesn't like cake/cookies/sweets very much. :shrug: That definitely didn't come from me! Maybe I'll make his favorite foods and we'll have a buffet. Everyone take lots of pictures! I want to see your little ones! Dragon, any advice for toddler parties? I can imagine you're a pro with TWO toddlers who just turned 2.

Helena, how are you? How's your Mom?

Kellen, Is DH home? how's the business? Teagen?


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy said:


> Dragon, the twins are SO cute, and look at Anson! He has such a cute and distinguished little chin. How is his temperament? How are the twins doing with him?

Thank you! Anson totally has my chin lol, it looks so funny on such a little face. He is SUCH a happy baby, and very easygoing. The twins weren't all that high-maintenance individually, but having two of them was like having one very high needs baby, plus I was exclusively pumping. Anson is just so easy in comparison, especially because he's a great nurser so I only need to pump when I'm at work (and sometimes in the morning because he's SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT ALREADY :happydance:). 

I thought having a third child would make everything harder, but it seems to be the opposite so far. Logistics can be a little challenging when taking them out, or if they all need something at the same time, but overall I'm a much happier Mama with three than I was with two.

I seem to have dodged the postpartum depression bullet this time, too. I've had plenty of energy to do some housework and cook dinner most nights, which I NEVER had when the twins were babies. My sister in law commented to me on Saturday that I seem so happy all the time now. It made me wonder if my emotional struggles were really that obvious before, but I also am glad that everything is going so well now. 

And to think that I was so terrified when I found out I was pregnant again, and I was really not all that excited throughout the pregnancy. It has turned out to be such a joy to be a mom of three, and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Lily and Gunnar love their new baby brother, but they do get jealous sometimes. They like to kiss and hug him, and talk and sing to him, but when they want me to themselves they say "Mama, put baby down!" :haha: I'm trying to get them involved in taking care of him (helping with baths, bringing me things when I'm nursing, etc) so they don't feel left out when I can't devote all my attention to them.


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## wamommy

DragonflyWing said:


> but when they want me to themselves they say "Mama, put baby down!" :haha: .

That's so funny. The other day in the car Max looked at Luca (as he was screaming in his car seat) and said calmly, "take it back..." :haha: Maybe he thought there is a return policy for fussy baby brothers?


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## Kellen

Hey all! Happy 2nd Birthday, Max. Happy Belated birthdays to Kiara, Lily and Gunnar!

Ah! Life is crazy. Good crazy. The business is booming (this is supposed to be the down season and we had our first $1,000 week last week). DH is home until recalled. He thinks it will be sometime next month or early April. Love him to pieces, but he needs to go back to work!

Teagen and I have been down sick. She came down with it first a fortnight ago. We took her to the doctor with a 101.4 temperature and a whole body rash. Well, poor girl is so fair complected that if she runs a fever she becomes a blotchy baby.

Tomorrow we are having a small get together for her birthday. I seriously cannot believe it has been two years... The theme: Elmo. Which is odd seeing as we don't actually watch Sesame Street. But she loves Elmo so Elmo it is. I need to be wrapping presents while she sleeps, but my running nose is a nice excuse not to.

Sierra - Yes, we are still BF. Typically it is when she wakes up, goes down for a nap and then at bedtime. But... since she was sick and didn't want to eat anything I feel like I've been nursing a newborn for the past week. Poor girl was so stuffed up that I let her sleep with us for a couple of nights and nurse when she wanted. The night before her nose was finally clear and she was quite angry at 12:30am when I told her the nursing buffet had closed for the evening.

I am looking forward to having another baby in a year or so. First DH needs to pass his 3rd Mate licensing exams before I will even think about having the IUD come out. Getting married was his original excuse. I will not let a baby be a second excuse. He has 45 days left that he needs to sail before he can sit again. So hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.

So Teagen puts her finger on her chin when you ask her to smile. I don't know... it is weird. No one here does that.
 



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## Kellen

One of Teagen's favorite things to do now is "play baby." She finds her old things like the bobby and has me lay her down on it so she can do "tummy time." She then demands that I take a picture.

"NO!" Is a word. Thankfully my mom invited the "Yes Box" for me and it works well for Teagen. She has a little box that some earrings came in that we wrote the word "yes" on the lid. If she starts saying "no" too frequently we go on an adventure to find her yes box. It works really, really well.

We have been potty trained completely since 19 months. She has great bladder control and we don't even use pulls at night anymore. Well, she did when she was coughing really hard because that can cause the best of us to wet the bed! But other than that she lets me know when she needs to go and we go. Sometimes she gets mad because I make her sit on the potty before car trips.

Also... STRIPPING! Today, today my child learned how to strip herself naked in .5 seconds. And we were at the shop... great. I knew she knew how to get her pants down to use the bathroom, but I didn't know she knew how to take off her top. Oops! :dohh: All of a sudden one of our employees says: "Looks like we've got a streaker!"
 



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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen! She's a cutie! I can't believe how long her hair is! I'm glad I'm not the only one still bfing... my.family thinks I'm crazy! :/ however, this week Camden decided he doesn't want to nurse in the mornings anymore, so we're down to just bedtime feedingS now. Makes me kind of sad. :( Lol. 

And ELMO is Camden's favorite too! My goodness ---he says that name hundreds of times a day. His other favorite is choo-choo trains! What little personalities they are getting!

What are everyone else's lo's favorites?


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## Kellen

Trains are a THING! We have a local train that runs lumber up and down the state. Every once in a while we will get stopped at the tracks. Once the train is past Teagen demands more trains! She loves Thomas the train.


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## DragonflyWing

Oh my gosh, Lily LOVES Elmo! Gunnar likes him too, but not as much. Lily seems to latch on to one thing and become totally obsessed for a while. First it was Curious George, now it's Elmo. She absolutely has to watch a Sesame Street DVD every morning or her life is ruined. :haha: 

She also has this little brown stuffed bear that she always has clutched to her chest. She calls him "baby bear" and she won't put him down for anything. She also has a little stuffed white bear that stays in her crib and she sleeps with (that one she calls "mama bear" :cloud9:, but baby bear goes everywhere with her.

Gunnar doesn't really get attached to just one thing...he loves to sit and read books, loves to dance, and he also likes trains! Sometimes you can hear the train whistle from our house, and he always stops what he's doing to yell "TRAIN!!!!"


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## Kellen

It is amusing to see what is universal in toddler land. Teagen doesn't have an item that she is overly attached to. She sleeps with a doll she received for Christmas. It's name is "Sara-Ben" after a family friend and her little boy but other than that she doesn't really care.

Right now she is obsessed with her "Little Critter" books. Very cute stories by Mercer Mayer that one of her "aunts" sent her a while back.

DH just received word yesterday that he is to report back to the boat on the 23rd. This is a major answer to prayer as I had no idea how we were going to pay bills next month. We had saved enough to get through Feb, but now he will be getting paid again.


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## DragonflyWing

That's great news, Kellen! :)

I forgot to mention that I cut my hair! It was down to my thighs, and I cut 16 inches off to donate to Wigs for Kids. Now it's down to the middle of my back with a few layers. I love it! I haven't regretted it for one minute, and I wish I'd done it sooner. Here's a before and after:
 



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## wamommy

Oh my goodness, I've missed a lot! 

Kellen, Teagen is gorgeous! What a ton of personality I see in that little face. :) I can't believe how long her hair is. We buzz Max's hair almost every month, lol... poor guy. 

Dragonfly, your hair looks so pretty! It's still beautifully long and looks really healthy. I'll bet it feels amazing.

Max is obsessed with cars and trucks lately. We let him pick out a new Hotwheels car or motorcycle (they're 97cents at the grocery store) each time we go shopping and it keeps him quiet and happy the whole time we shop. He has quite the collection! He also loves Mario (as in Nintendo's little red guy) and Mickey Mouse. He's going through a super "no" phase too... I swear I can ask him, "do you want some ice cream?" and he'll say, "no!" then realize what I asked and smile slyly saying, "yeeeeees!" Little weirdo. He also tells knock-knock jokes and loves to sing and dance. We played the Bruno Mars video on YouTube for that song 'Uptown Funk' and now Max goes around dancing with his hands on his crotch like in the video... :dohh: It's actually really cute.

As for me, life has been more than I can handle lately. I've been in survival mode and each day my goal is just to feed and bathe the kids while not completely losing my sanity. I'm hoping things get easier soon! The end of cold and flu season will certainly help, since the kids have rotated through bug after bug. My birthday was on Saturday and I spent the morning scrubbing puke off of my daughter's stuffed animals and bed... sigh.

I'm glad to hear everyone's LOs are doing so well! I can't believe they're 2... time really does fly. It seems like yesterday we all had wrinkly little newborns. Now they're actual little PEOPLE! It's pretty fun, huh?


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## wamommy

Here is our Normal!
 



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## SierraJourney

Kellen---I'm so glad to hear that! I keep finding in our life that things happen just when we desperately need them to. . . just in the nick of time! 

Dragon---your hair looks so thick and beautiful! Coming from someone with very thin, dull hair, I'm extremely jealous! ;)

wamommy---I am so sorry that things are so rough right now. I can not even imagine. I think you are doing things just right, though---at this point in your life, if the kids are fed and bathed, I feel like you are winning! Especially with FOUR! Take it one step at a time, and know we are always here for you to vent to!!! *hugs*

And---Camden loves cars and trucks too!! I think I might take up your idea and get him a matchbox car each time I go shopping---I have the worst time trying to entertain him while I get groceries! 


Well, DH and I keep going back and forth about the second child thing. How do you know for sure it's a good idea? Right now, we're both very relieved and excited that we can final DO things and take Camden with us. . . with Camden being such a taxing baby, it was a very isolated time for us. Now we feel life is finally moving "forward" and we can do things we WANT to do (I hope that doesn't sound too selfish). We're worried that if we add another child into the mix, that we will lose that "freedom" and kind of take a few steps backwards. . . (gosh, that sounds so selfish. . .). And then there is the financial aspect of it. . . after going down to one income, things are extremely tight---and we wonder how we'd afford another kid. . . especially if it's a girl and we have to buy all new stuff! And yet, we want Camden to have a sibling. . .and also a sibling close in age to him. That's probably our biggest "Pro" to having another child---for Camden to have a sibling. . . .is that a bad reason to get pregnant again? It's soooooo hard to decide and we don't want to rush into it. . .but want them close in age if we do have another. . . *sigh* So those are my problems right now. lol. ;)

Helena, how are you doing dear?


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## Kellen

Dragon - You look amazing!

Wamommy - I'm with you on the single mommy front as DH left for his boat today.

Sierra - I go back and forth on the second child thing too. Teagen has been growing leaps and bounds and loves to play by herself. But... this weekend one of her cousins was down and they had so much fun together. Also she keeps asking me for a brother... :dohh:

So, DH is off to work again. This is a good thing, but a very hard thing too. I miss him so much already! Unfortunately the airlines screwed up AGAIN and he missed his connecting flight. Now he is fighting with customer service trying to get to work by 7am tomorrow. It is kinda stressful...
Thankfully Teagen's nighttime routine has evolved to where she doesn't miss her dad as much this go around as the last. We nurse for a few minutes. Then we snuggle and talk about her day. Then I excuse myself to go to the "bathroom" and check on her before I go to bed. It has cut the routine down from 90 mins to 30! I'm kinda loving the extra hour to myself.

So my grandmother decided to buy us a building for our business. She sold her property had the money was burning a hole in her pocket. We made an offer which was accepted and sign the paper next Friday. Our current landlord is HORRIBLE! He refuses to fix things (example: Big rain - floor flooded. Electrical outlets in the floor. Does anyone else have a problem with this? He said it happens every year and he'll send someone 'round to clean the drains). So we are seeing a lawyer on Tues to talk about getting out of the contract or just paying him off and moving. There is a little bit of remodel that we will need to do for the new building but tons more parking. Needless to say I'm very excited.

Two year molars... anyone seeing signs of them? Teagen's bottom ones come up every so often and then go back down which makes her quite grumpy. I haven't seen any signs of the upper ones. However, she was drooling in her sleep in the carseat today on the way to the airport.

She is growing up so fast! Today I sat on the porch and she ran off to her swing set and climbed up the ladder and went down the slide half a dozen times by herself. Then she asked if I would help her swing. By the time I got my shoes and jacket on she had gotten herself into the swing and was trying to kick back and forth to get it going. All she needed was a small push and she kept it going via pumping. I was pretty impressed. She has also started naming her toys. Right now we have SaraBen (a mom friend and son) who is a soft learn to tie, button and zip doll, PennySimon (from the Treeschoolers) who is a baby doll and Micah (a boy from church) who was my mom's doll.

Teagen is also obsessed with diapers... mainly because she hasn't worn one since July. While we were talking in bed tonight she told me that the boys in her church class wear diapers. Then she told me that one of the boys had a stinky diaper. She then proceeded to pinch her nose shut and say "pee-ewe!" and giggle hysterically. Oh she has an off sense of humor.


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## DragonflyWing

That's so exciting about the new building, Kellen! Um, yeah, there's a problem if you have electrical outlets in the floor and they get flooded! So glad you won't have to deal with that anymore. :) 

For you guys wondering about a second child- I heartily recommend it! Honestly, I can't even imagine having just one haha! I think if I had one child, he or she would be a bit spoiled (I tend to dote a bit). Having three, that's definitely not an issue!

Gunnar and Lily are doing very well, but are being SO defiant and misbehaving left and right. We are definitely in the terrible twos, and it's compounded by them conspiring together lol! They fight a lot with each other, which often results in time outs for pushing or hitting...Lily has been drinking milk and then spitting it out onto the floor in a huge puddle or onto Gunnar...they both broke into the tray of biscotti I made for DH and nibbled on 6 of them...etc, etc, etc. There's lots of whining, too, but no real tantrums. They are talking TONS, and when they're not looking for ways to be naughty, they're extremely affectionate and so smart! They love to sit and page through all their books, sing songs, and put puzzles together. Lily has been making a lot of comparisons- "Onion kind of like a ball!" "Slipper kind of like a shoe!" "[Bulb] syringe kind of like a light bulb!" (that one impressed me, since she doesn't know the full name for it).

Anson is doing fantastic- he's been sleeping through the night 90% of the time for over a month now. I thought he didn't like being swaddled, but it turns out he needs it at night! He sleeps from about 9:30pm-7:30am. He is such a happy baby, and he's just learning to laugh...every time he does, though, he gives himself the hiccups! :haha:


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## Kellen

Dragon - Thank you! I am so looking forward to moving the business. Also, when you are getting ready to transition Anson from being swaddled for sleeping to actual jammies look up the Zip-a-dee-Zip. It is a swaddle transition sleeper thingy. Teagen hated to be swaddled but her "Zippy" was the only way she would sleep for naps for a long time. It helped keep her calm.


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## helena

Hi all sorry it's been so long!!! Here is Kiara with our latest addition, 7 month old Jac. 
Going to read and catch up on all I have missed.. Xx


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## Kellen

Helena - Kiara is adorable. It looks like she really loves Jac.

Well, I have pretty much decided that Teagen is never going to want to wean herself so I have to do it. Thankfully she is very empathetic. Today was the first time EVER (2 years, 2 weeks and 1 day) that she has gone to sleep for her nap without nursing (minus car trips). We nursed before hand and then I laid down with her. She yelled at me for about five minutes. It was so hard, I wanted to give in. I also had a paper due, but I kept telling myself: there will never be a convenient time to wean. Do it now! So finally she laid down and went to sleep.

We are pretty much weaned for night time sleeping. We nurse during story time and then we lay down together and talk about our day. After a while she'll let me leave and fall asleep on her own. She comes to bed with me around 5:30 or 6 and sleeps until 7:30 just snuggling and then nurses to wake up. 

I know that next year around the end of Feb, first part of March, DH and I would like to try for number two. However, we agreed a while ago that my body will need to take a break from nursing or being pregnant for at least six months. Hence why I want to gradually have Teagen become more independent in her sleep cycles. Hopefully this fall she will be in preschool a couple days a week which will inspire her to wean if we haven't already.


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## wamommy

Helena, Kiara is beautiful! It's so sweet that she has Jac as a friend. Some of the earliest memories I have are with the family pets, so it's great that you've given your kids that gift! 

Kellen, well done with the weaning! We are still doing several bottles a day, and trying to wean Max from the bottle is HARD because Luca is constantly drinking one, which of course makes Max want one...sigh. We're going to have to simply cut him off soon. I'm dreading that day!

A ton is going on with us right now, more than I have time to write right now... but I will come back and fill you all in when I have more time. I've never been so stressed or so tired in my entire life, and that's saying something!!!

I hope all is well with everyone as we move into spring.


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## Kellen

Happy Easter everyone!

Teagen did her first egg hunt today in our backyard. We invited two families over who have kids that Teagen enjoys playing with. All the kids were awesome and kept taking eggs from their own baskets to give to the smaller kids.

Pretty excited that Teagen and I will see DH in 28 days! It has been since February and we are all excited. Also excited to be moving into our new shop as soon as the plumbing inspector signs off on the building.


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## DragonflyWing

Glad to hear everyone's updates! We got Gunnar off the pacifier just after Christmas, thank goodness...I thought he'd be going to high school with it! We're also totally off bottles and on to straw cups and sippy cups. We've got complete sentences from both twins now, although pronunciation is still a work in progress, especially for Gunnar. He likes to shorten his words so "Gunnar wants milk in cup" becomes "Guh wa milk cuh," but if you ask him slow down and speak clearly, he does fine. And then there's Lily "Mama, I'm thirsty. I want milk in my cup, please." and then when I hand it to her "Oh, fank you, Mama!" :haha:

Anyone else having total terrible twos issues? The twins were bothering Anson and made him cry, so they were put in time out. When I went back in to get them in 5 minutes, they had both stripped naked and smeared poop all over the playpen and each other. That was a huge ordeal. 

The very next day, during a "nap," Gunnar pushed his crib away from the wall so he could reach my dresser, and knocked everything off it. That included a beautiful snowglobe I got as a wedding present that was engraved with our names and wedding date. Smashed, shards of glass and glitter filled water all over the bedroom floor. This just happened to be on Easter, right when I had to get all the food into the oven/onto the stove, and my dinner for 20 people ended up being 2 hours late.

Yesterday, Gunnar pulled a cup of coffee off the table (thankfully not hot), dumped it all over himself and the baby, then tracked it throughout the entire house before my husband could catch him. 

We've tried reasoning, time-outs sitting in a chair, time-outs confined to a playpen, stern lectures, taking away privledges, and even light swats to the behind in extreme circumstances. We're constantly praising and rewarding good behaviour. Nothing seems to work. 90% of the mayhem comes from Gunnar. Lily is actually not that bad (yet).


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## Kellen

Thankfully we have had no poop-scapes in this house. Teagen can be a little brat sometimes though. She plays two ends against the middle really well because she knows her great-grandmother can't hear and if I say something she doesn't like she'll take Baba (her name for my grandmother) by the hand and lead her to whatever it is that she wants.

However, the other day Teagen decided to scale the 6'6" cat tower and my grandmother thought it was funny. I did not. I read Teagen the riot act and sat her in time-out. Apparently I had my really angry face on because now whenever she passes the tower she'll point to it and say: No climbing tower. Tower for cat."

Is anyone else's little one obsessed with a TV show? Teagen is all over Peppa Pig. She only gets a little viewing time each day, but all I hear about is Peppa and George and Suzy Sheep and Rebecca Rabbit. Even the girls at our shop are beginning to know the cast of Peppa. Given one of my employees has a daughter two months older than Teagen, but she is currently a Bubble Guppie fan...


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## DragonflyWing

The twins are obsessed with Veggie Tales and Elmo right now. We don't have cable, so the only things they watch are what we can get on DVD from the library...and Sesame Street and Veggie Tales are pretty educational and wholesome. I've never seen any of the newer shows like Peppa Pig, but I bet Lily would love it. She loves anything with animals.

They get to watch one show in the morning when they wake up (this is mostly so DH can get an extra half hour of sleep on the couch lol), and occasionally I admit to sitting them in front of the TV while I'm making dinner or nursing the baby when I get home from work. Even so, DH and I usually don't end up eating dinner until after everyone is in bed at about 9:30pm. Last night I had dinner ready and on the table at 6:30, and DH was actually confused, because we never eat that early anymore!

The past week has been pretty rough for us. After the Easter debacle and a few hard days at work, I kind of suddenly fell into a well of depression and stress and smoked my first cigarette in 9 years. I'm pretty disappointed in myself.


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## helena

Wow we haven't started time outs with Kiara yet.. I felt she was too young and wouldn't "get" it? Maybe I am over babying her!...
She does have some tantrums now but is pretty easy to distract. And tbh she foamy doesn't seem nearly as beastly as her six year old brother. When he throws a tantrum
We all know about it!!!!
She still has her pacifier too, though I want
To change this soon.
Am loving spring and being outside with them all a lot more - Kiara is really becoming a child at the park and not a baby, running off away from mummy and climbing ladders and whooshing down slides. I love it.

We haven't tried potty training yet. She is funny though - will insist that she has only done a pee even when it clearly isn't. I think she feels a bit embarrassed of poop. Maybe she is almost ready to be potty training of she is becoming aware of poop not being nice?! My eldest did q similar thing and started going for a poo k his nappy under the table when he was two - he didn't want anyone knowing he was doing it. 
Funny little people!!
How is it going with the little one dragon? Xxx


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## SierraJourney

Hello ladies! It's been a while, but in my defense, I wasn't getting any notifications that anyone posted anything! :( Why that happens periodically, I don't know. I have to chuckle at everyone's posting on their Valentines babies---Camden is at the same stages and it's refreshing to know I'm not alone! He's currently obsessed with the shows "Daniel Tiger's Nieghborhood" and "Chuggington"---which he calls: "Tigers!" and "Chuggers!" haha

Kellen---I have the opposite problem with weaning----Camden kind of started weaning himself a few months ago. I've been letting him lead the way with weaning, so now, he only nurses for a couple minutes a night, maybe 3 nights a week because that is the only time he asks for it. It makes me kind of sad, but I know it's time because he's definitely telling me it is. haha. I'm pretty much "dried up", but there is just enough in there for his silly little sips. :)

Potty training is going good around here----Camden hasn't pooped in his pants in months---though pee is a bit harder for him to catch. If we are consistent with asking him about it, he can go a whole day without accidents (except for naps and bedtime which he seems to have no interest in waking up to go potty). ha! He mainly wears cloth pull-ups and trainers--waterproof ones when we go out in public, but he goes great on any toilet. The only problem we've really been having is that out in public, he doesn't want to take the time to "finish" on the potty, so he ends up going a little bit, then when we get back to the table/car/shopping/etc, he immediately has to go again to get the rest out. lol I've been trying to make him sit a little longer and ask him to keep trying, but so far that doesn't work. So, I'm the mom that runs back to the potty TWICE. ;)

We just switched to a toddler bed last week---I'm sure we're way behind on this, but Camden never figured out how to climb out of his crib (ha!), so we were post-poning it. However, he LOVES his toddler bed and has been staying in it consistently. (We converted his crib, so I think it helps that it's familiar to him). Last night was the first night he fell out of bed. Poor kiddo was so sleepy that he didn't even cry---just pointed for me to put him back in bed. :)

Well, onto the big news, after a long time of DH saying he did not want another baby, we have officially (mutually) decided to start trying for #2! I'm really excited, yet a bit scared! ha! It feels like ages since I was pregnant and caring for a newborn. . .lol. . .and I just got my body back to a shape I'm more comfortable with. lol. A petty thing, ha, but it's a bit hard. But I'm excited to be a part of making another lo. I dream of what he/she will be like. Sooooooooo-----maybe soon I'll have exciting news! 

How are the rest of you doing? What's new in your lives? I miss you all!


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## Kellen

Hello!

Lots of new around here. Language explosion! Teagen is such a little chatter box and will repeat absolutely anything that she hears which means no more secrets. Haha...

DH is back at work, but only need 20 more "days" at sea before he is qualified to apply to take the tests to get his license which will then get his diploma. But he is going to stick it out for the rest of the season before taking any tests.

Teagen needs to be socialized. She loves adults but doesn't have any interest in children her own age. She enjoys my employee's son who is 10, but tells my other employee's daughter (who is 2 as well) to go away. DH has agreed that this late summer/fall we will enroll her in a local Christian preschool. Since I started working in nursery she has started refusing to stay unless I stay with her. Oddly enough she does better in the 3/4 class next door. I guess she just likes older kids.

We are getting another dog on Tuesday (May 19th). He is a 3 year old neutered male English Sheppard. Our female dog likes the boy dogs better because they let her boss them around. His name is Ace and he was raised with kids. I'm pretty excited.

DH and I have started seriously talking about #2. I still want to have my body without a nursling attached for a little while before really trying. Weaning is slow here especially with Daddy away (DH was home last week and left Tuesday). Next week I am expecting to have an angry child as I plan to put band-aids over Teagen's "nursers" (aka nipples) and tell her that I have owies during the day. Right now she only nurses when she wakes up in the morning, before nap, and during story time at night. I figure nap will be easiest as she sort of asks but is more interested in the story and laying down.

Yesterday I had an early morning appointment in the next town. Teagen opted to stay home with my mom. My mom had a painting project for them to do together, but she told Teagen it would need to wait until after nap. Teagen proceeded to grab my mom's hand and try to drag her upstairs whilst telling her: "Teagen go sleep now. Wake up. PAINT!" So my mom capitulated and let her paint and then finished the project in the afternoon post nap.

Peppa Pig is now the THING. As in, "Watch Peppa on Mommy's phone now." "Wear Peppa jammies all day, mom." "Peppa and George go outside." Which has oddly enough ended with Teagen pronouncing some words with a very British accent. Such as potato, tomato, puddle. We no longer have a "back yard" we have a "garden" (which is true in the American sense as well given that we have planted a bunch of edibles).


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## Kellen

Does anyone else have a chatter bug at night? As soon as Teagen crawls into her bed she wants to talk... not just for a little bit, but for an hour! I have tried staying still. I have tried reading a book. I have tried leaving, but she'll call me back and I can't stand to hear her cry or become distressed. She just has so much to say I don't want to stop her, but I also want her to GO TO SLEEP!

Tonight she had two stuffed creatures in her bed and they were carrying on a rather nice conversation.

Rachel Rabbit: Hi! Name Rachel Rabbit. Yours?
SaraBen: Hi. Name SaraBen. Friends now.
Rachel Rabbit: Yes, friends now. Play.
*Random humming as the two "friends" play
SaraBen: Rachel, kisses. Night night.
Rachel Rabbit: Night night. Drop SaraBen on floor now. Bye bye!
Teagen: Mommy. Play SaraBen now. Hugs kisses sleep now. Wuv you, mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Night. Good night. Mommy. Mommy. C'mhere Mommy. Hands! Hold hands. No, Mommy. Use potty? Mommy kisses. All better? Wake up time? Mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Mommy....

This is my night. Every night. From 7:30-8:30 or 8-9 depending on when nap time was.


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## wamommy

I'm sorry I haven't posted in so long! Life has been NUTS...

Sierra, hurray for baby #2! That's great news. :) 

Kellen, Max is a super-talker too. I have to tell him to be quiet sometimes, and then I feel bad. He just doesn't ever stop! 

I'm amazed by your little ones using t he potty so well. Max refuses to even sit on it. He's fine with talking about it and even WANTS to use the potty, but once the diaper comes off and it's time to actually try, he loses his mind.

So, we might be moving to San Diego! DH's parents house in Hawaii has been sitting vacant for 9 years since they passed away. We haven't had the finances to handle to clean-up and restoration of the house to sell it, but my Dad stepped in and is paying for everything. He went over to Hawaii 3 times with DH so far to hire contractors and empty the house. DH's parents were hoarders, so it's a HUGE job. Anyhow, once the house sells we're thinking of turning the money right into a new house down where my Dad lives. It certainly would be nice to have family nearby and not feel so isolated. In the meantime, DH keeps leaving and the kids keep getting super sick. I sometimes feel like the last year was both the longest in my life and the shortest, if that makes sense.

Luca just turned 1. Can you believe it's been a year?? I feel like I just found out I was pregnant with him! Here's a pic of Max and Luca. Max is constantly irritated by Luca and randomly pushing him down. :( I'm hoping they learn to get along soon!!
 



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## SierraJourney

Wamommy---that's wonderfull that you get to love near family!!! I think that will be great for all of you---I'm excited for you! :) 

Camden is the most timid, shy little boy ever...so we don't have a chattering issue here... haha. Instead, we are trying to teach him that he can still play on the slide if other people are using it (instead of cowering by mommy's legs)... poor little guy. 

I'm so excited about baby #2!! I can't stand it! I'm currently in the looooong 2 week wait--at least I think, because my cycle was off last month. I'm hoping the time flies and I can test soon! Haha!


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## Kellen

Wamommy - Your life is crazy! But that is so exciting that you guys might be able to move. It would be great if you could have some additional family around. Too bad about sick kids and an away DH, but awesome that you have something to look forward to. Too cute about Max pushing Luca. I know it isn't cute in reality, but the mental image is kind of adorable.

Sierra - I'm so happy for you. I know you really wanted another one. I think we're all on tender hooks here waiting to see your results. 

Teagen was a typical two year old this morning. First she ate her scrambled eggs, but then all the big chunks were gone so she needed more eggs. However, there were no more eggs but the tiny pieces that I offered to help get on the fork. Nope. Cue major meltdown because she just wanted eeeeeeeeeggggggsssss!!!!!!!!! 
Then at the shop she melted down because there were no egg carton cups! (She did a fun painting project that made flowers out of egg carton cups). Life was sure to end, but then my mom showed up and took Teagen home to help plant in the garden.

Tomorrow I officially start weaning boot camp for myself and Teagen. I am cutting out nap time nursing. She barely nurses at nap time so I am hoping it will only be a couple days of whining. Next will come bed time. The hardest will be the morning wake up, because if she doesn't nurse when she is waking up she is GRUMPY ALL DAY LONG! No just a little grump, but an all over mean grump.


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## wamommy

Kellen, how did the weaning go? I understand the super-grump thing. Max definitely has his moments. If he doesn't get his way he's prone to dropping to his knees and wailing. It's almost more cute than aggravating, though! I have to hide a smile. I usually just say, "oh, the drama! The world is ending!" and he crosses his arms and stops screaming, lol. 

Sierra, I can't wait until you test! Yay!! Please keep us posted. Fingers crossed for you! I forgot how exciting the two week wait is (when you WANT to be pregnant, haha). 

I feel like I let my kids watch entirely too much TV. I used to be one of those parents who said, "my kids will not watch ANY TV until they're like 5!" Ya... that didn't last. It's on during breakfast and in the background most of the day. I'm thinking about having a "tv free" day once a week where we aren't allowed to turn the TV on at all. I've learned to tune out the cartoons, but even when the kids are doing something else around the house, studies have shown that tv noise has a negative impact on imagination and concentration. That, and if I have to hear "bubble bubble bubble, guppy guppy guppies!" one more time, I might explode. :haha:

Helena and Dragon, how are you two doing? How are Kiara, Gunnar and Lily? Are they enjoying spring? Max LOVES the park. He's a bit timid about heights, so he climbs up the stairs to the slide on his hands and knees.... lol. He won't swing at all, but he loves to run around and collect rocks and sticks. He could do it all day!


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## Kellen

Yesterday was out first non-nursing nap day and it was FANTASTIC! Today was awful. She cried for twenty minutes begging me to nurse and take off the bandaids. I felt bad, but stuck to my guns. She eventually let me snuggle her and fell asleep. Tomorrow should be easier as she will be in the car seat as we head north. The same with Wednesday. If it is anything like when I weaned her from only falling a sleeping while nursing one more crying session should help her realize I'm serious. I hate hearing her cry, but I'm ready to be done nursing. Her latch has been getting worse as her molars come in. Only one left. 

We try not to do too much TV. My dad has it one a lot, but he has a set of wireless headphones so we don't hear the noise. We watch a little bit of Peppa Pig in the morning and then when it comes on at 6 in the evening. Other than that she is busy at the shop or outside. 

She is fairly cautious at the park; not afraid just doesn't like to test her physical boundaries (which is totally unlike DH or myself). However she will swing for HOURS if I were to consent to push her for that long. Slides are fun and she loves ladders.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen---hopefully today went better with the nap-weaning. I hate when Camden cries, so I can imagine how tough that has to be on you. :( 

Camden does the typical toddler fits, too. . . He'll even YELL at me when he's angry---red-faced and all. Yikes. . ..it's so hard to be strict when it's so hilarious how much they carry on. haha

So, tomorrow is 7dpo for me (or at least I think). How soon did you guys test? I'm having such a hard time waiting!! lol. . .


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## wamommy

I'd say 10 dpo, to be safe. Even then it's not 100%. Also, if there's a dollar store nearby, their tests are actually really good! I'm so excited, Sierra!! :)


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## SierraJourney

I actually have about 15 Internet cheapies to use...lol. ..and 3 frers for closer to 14dpo. I read back in my journal and I got a faint positive with Camden at 9dpo, and then got a clear positive at 11dpo. I'm tempted to test every day with the cheap tests starting tomorrow. ..lol. I feel like I shouldnt be this crazy with baby #2, but I just want to see a positive right away! :)

Probably tmi, but I have an awful yeast infection right now, which I'm hoping is a good sign. I got one right around my bfp for Camden too ... fingers crossed!


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## wamommy

Oh good! In that case, go test! :haha: Just think... If this is your last baby then this is your last 2 week wait. I say, do it up! Test away!


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## SierraJourney

Haha. I'll test tomorrow and let you know! :) I'm not sure if this will be our last baby or not....now that dh has decided he wants another one, we're both unsure if this is the last one or if we'll try for a 3rd! I guess we'll see how life goes with for a while! ;)


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## Kellen

Hooray for testing! Exciting to see this thread starting to become active again. I know we all have crazy lives... but I've missed all of your updates and stories!

So, we are home from Portland and weaning has been suspended for the near future. It was a breeze picking up the dog from the airport. He is AMAZING and immediately bonded with Teagen. His only shortcoming is is lack of manners as he wants ALL the FOOD from ALL THE PEOPLE! NOW!!! But we simply put him in his crate for meal times.

Last night at 10:15-ish I heard Teagen from the spare bedroom. When I went to check on her she was COVERED in vomit. Awesome. So I took her into the bathroom cleaned her up the best I could and took her to the second guest room so I could clean the first. She proceeded to vomit every hour until 4am when she slept until she woke us both up at 6:45 by vomiting again. She was in good spirits and wanted to eat. Her breakfast request: bell peppers and corn chips. She took an impromptu nap around 9:30 which delayed our going home until noon. 20 minutes after getting in the car... Bleck! Thank goodness my mom was with us so she could help Teagen vomit into a towel.

Basically a 3 hour car ride took 5 and a half hours due to a vomiting toddler and anxious dog. But Ace and our prior dog SisQ took an immediate liking to each other. We had to separate them just now because they wanted to play and bark and I threatened to kill anyone who wakes up a sick baby who ASKED to go to bed at 6:30. Now I shall enjoy my extra time alone and veg by catching up on Game of Thrones and Outlander.


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen! That's just awful!! Poor Teagen! :( A vomiting child is sooooo hard. I.hope the worst has passed for you! 

Negative test this morning. ..but I expected that since it's early. ;)


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## SierraJourney

also, that's amazing how well the dogs are getting along! They both must be sweeties! <3


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## wamommy

Meh, a negative test is no biggie at this point! 8 dpo today? Keep us posed!

Kellen, I'm so sorry Teagen is sick. How is she doing today? Max had a horrific 2-week bug where he vomited like that. He made up a new word. He would run up to me and say, "Mommy, I carf..." and then he would vomit everywhere. I assume it's cough and barf combined? Lol I don't know. I sure hope it passes quickly for you.

I wish we had dogs. I grew up with them and really miss it. I'll add a fenced yard to my wish-list for a new house! Since we don't have a functional yard here (it's literally a cliff...not safe for the kids to play outdoors here) we go down the street to the fenced park to play. Max loves to collect sticks and rocks and go down the slide over and over. Once I asked him why he crawls instead of walking on the big toy. He said, "I don't want to die." Weird kid.


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## SierraJourney

Guys, my boobs are super sore! I'm trying not to get too excited, but the only times they are ever sore was when I was pregnant! Oh i Hope it's true!!

Camden had the flu twice this last winter. ..I felt so bad. He wouldn't say anything, but start crying uncontrollably before he threw up. I really hope Teagen is over it already...poor dear!

Wamommy, a dog is on my.wishlist too when we get a bigger back yard. Dh wants an Irish wolfhound...so we'll need a TON of space! ;) 

Camden LOVES sticks! He also recently began Picking dandelions and giving them to me. My.heart melts every time!


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## Kellen

Teagen is pretty much back to normal today. She was a chatty cathy at bedtime; I think part of it is because the last time she really went to sleep for a normal bedtime she woke up vomiting. Thankfully she is super stoic when she throws up and just wants to be held. I know exactly where the bug came from as a mom from church posted on facebook that her little girl was up vomiting most of the night, but then brought her to church the next night while I was working in the nursery. Really!? Who does that?

Sierra - Exciting news about the sore breasts! That is such an odd thing to say... but congrats! Hopefully you'll see a BFP before you know it.

So here are a few "current" pictures. One is of our two dogs. The dog on the left is our female who we've had for a little over a year and the bigger one on the right is our new addition. He responds well with women and children, but is a bit aggressive towards my dad. However, our female gets on him and lets him know what manners he needs to have.

The picture of Teagen with our dog was at Easter. We were getting ready to go to church and she had to take a minute to read a book to the dog. It was too good of a photo opportunity to miss. The other picture is of our family when we went to Texas for a wedding of a friend of DH's. It was on a cruise ship and it was awful. They made us get to the boat at 8:30am (which was 6:30am by Teagen's clock), we then had to wait for 2 hours (really fun with a grumpy, tired toddler), then we helped the bride get ready, then they did rehearsal, then the wedding, then a two hour long reception dinner. Teagen was toast and so was I. There was no nap that day. Never again. Never again.
 



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## SierraJourney

Love the pictures! Such a lovely family! 

So.glad Teagen is feeling better! It drives me crazy when people expose other children to.illnesses! So sad. :( 

Bfn for me today. Im.hoping tomorrow. ...it's getting hard to be patient and not be discouraged. ...


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## Kellen

Bummer, Sierra. If you do get a BFP the new baby will have a similar birthday to Cameron. 

I took Teagen to the doctor today. This morning at 2:15 I heard "Mom, help... Bleck." They said just give it time since she is eating and drinking well. Two more throw ups tonight. Hopefully she will let me sleep beyond 5:30 tonight. She was bouncing on me his morning. I told her to let me sleep if she didn't want to have a grumpy mommy. She doesn't know how much I love her as I gave up a massage appointment to take her to the doctor. 

Teagen was super awesome at the doctor's office. I sat her on the table and she promptly today the nurse: "I throw up all day AND all night. Feeling sick. Have owie on my toe." Apparently she also has super waxy ears.


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## SierraJourney

10dpo and another bfn. A bit discouraging, but I know I still have time. Did any of you not get a bfp.until after your missed period? Also, did any of you drink coffee throughout your pregnancy? I've cut out most coffee and all wine since we're ttc...but it's sooooo hard.. especially since I was drinking 4 cups of coffee a day. :(

Kellen, Teagen sounds so grown up! What a little cutie! I hope you both get some sleep soon! Camden has waxy ears too--he even had to get them cleaned out by the doctor when he was 9 months old! :/


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## wamommy

I'm so sorry Teagen is still sick. :( Poor kid! I hope it passes soon.

Sierra, don't get too discouraged! If there's anything this site has taught me it's that every pregnancy and every baby are different. Camden may have been a bfp at 9 dpo, but you may not get a clear positive until later this time! Also, I didn't drink a drop of caffeine, aspartame, etc with my first three. I was SO good. I didn't take a single tylenol or hot bath. I microwaved all lunch meat before I ate it. :haha: Along came Luca, and I drank 2 cups of coffee a day, and drank pop (although the Sucralose kind, not aspartame). I did a bunch of research out of guilt, and most studies have found no ill effect under 200mg of caffeine a day. I just couldn't give it up when Max was the world's worst sleeper!

That's funny about the waxy ears. Luca has that too. I call it his "ear boogers" and I use my fingernail to scoop them out every day. Ick... lol.

The kids are on a 4-day weekend right now. I used up some really great entertainment ideas yesterday, so I don't know how we'll fill t he day today! Any (cheap) ideas?


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## SierraJourney

Thanks so much wamommy... I know I'm not out untilaf...but I am not a good waiter...lol. Both my first pregnancy (mc) and Camden, I got pregnant the first month trying...so I guess I'm hoping that happens this time too..... unrealistic, I know....

As far as activities, Camden loves water tables or gardening projects. He recently has loved a balloon rocket--a hand pump you launch balloons into the air and the kids catch them. You can usually find it at amazon, meijer, or dollar stores. Washing cars outside is a fun activity too! It's so hard to entertain sometimes while keeping fresh ideas--I turn to pinterest A LOT! :lol:


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## Kellen

Do you have any egg cartons? Teagen did this super awesome craft with my mom using egg cartons, tempra paint and pipe cleaners. The kids paint the inside and outside of the egg carton. Then you cut the little cup bits out, poke a hole in them, then insert a pipe cleaner. It makes a "bouquet" and is actually really pretty. Teagen loves giving "flowers" to people.

She is still sick. Ugg... so over it! Tomato soup puke all over my bed. I escaped to work for a little bit, but I know I'll have to go back to the house soon. Super slow as everyone leaves town for the weekend.

Sierra - Don't be discouraged! I never really kept track of when I tested. I think I might have tested a day or two before AF, and certainly afterwards. Each time I was pregnant the MC and Teagen I just knew before hand. Sore breasts were the worse.


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## wamommy

Thanks for the ideas, ladies! I'll have to try those out. It's raining here today (boo!) so I'll have to pick an indoor activity. I love taking the kids to the park to run like crazy for an hour. They sleep SO much better if they get park time. We actually have a ton of yard work that needs doing and the kids love to garden. By garden, I mean find worms and potato bugs and see who can dig the biggest hole... :dohh:

Oh Kellen, tomato soup puke, eew. I always choose white or beige foods to feed the kids when they're sick, lol. They stained a lot of carpet before I switched! Also, I don't feed them foods that I actually like, because cleaning up puke that smells like a really warped and gross version of what I USED to be able to enjoy...lol, is no fun at all. I'm so sorry for the both of you.. :(


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## Kellen

Wamommy - First time mommy mistake on my part! I thought she was better since she hadn't thrown up in 17 hours. Nope... apparently not. Thankfully puke doesn't really gross me out. Poop on the other hand.

Teagen loves to garden too. She does not like bugs though. If I find ladybugs she makes me hold them so she can look, but she won't touch them. We have a huge garden planted this year. We are already eating lettuce from home, strawberries and soon to be blueberries. We also have two cherry trees, two plums, three pears, three apples, a raspberry bush, a blackberry bush, two grape arbors, dill, garlic, chives, cilantro, potatos, onions, watermelon, cantaloupe, beets, carrots, rosemary, thyme, tomatoes, three different types of squash, and cucumbers that are or will be planted.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen, your garden sounds lovely! We have just a small garden this year of corn, carrots, onions, snap peas, tomatoes, cucumbers, strawberries, and zucchini. It's my first time growing vegetables at this house so I'm hoping we have success. :)

11dpo and bfn again. However, about 3 weeks ago, Camden stopped nursing all together and shortly after my.milk dried up---however, as of yesterday, it had come back again! I don't know if this is normal or if it's a good pregnancy sign, but I think I'm driving dh crazy with my assumptions! Ha!


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## Kellen

Sierra - Poor DH! Lol. I think that is probably why my DH didn't want me testing early because he didn't want us to be disappointed. 

Corn! Yes, we will have corn too. It is too early to plant it here yet. 

Does anyone else have a super crabby waker upper? Teagen has woken up in a horrible mood from her naps the past two days.


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## SierraJourney

Yes! Camden STILL cries EVERY TIME he wakes up! Haha. It always takes him a bit to warm up to the real world. ..


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## wamommy

It totally depends. If Max gets enough sleep he's SUPER happy and talkative when he wakes up. If he doesn't get enough or we wake him up, he's a total grump. More often than not I'd say he's pleasant at wake-up. 

I'm so jealous of your gardens! I would love to have a garden someday. It's been something I dream about for a while, but I'm barely hanging on to managing INSIDE the house, so outside will have to wait. Although, the idea of having the girls help me and spend some quality bonding time without the boys is really attractive. I'll just have to convince DH to watch the boys. He still hates watching Luca and lets him cry and cry... sigh.

Sierra, and news today? I checked the board first thing...lol. It's not even me and I'm a testing addict!


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## SierraJourney

Bfn again!! I'm wondering if there's any hope at this point. ... :(


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## Kellen

There is always hope!

Happy Memorial Day, U.S. Peoples. 

Odd story: I dreamt last night that we all had a huge get together without children. We all ate scones and drank coffee. What is my subconscious trying to tell me?


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## wamommy

:brat: Boo, Sierra!! I agree with Kellen that there is still hope! I've heard a million stories about getting a bfp on af day!

Kellen, your dream sounds lovely. Wouldn't that be awesome?? I hope dreams aren't a direct representation of the psyche, because my most recent one was about escaping a town of zombies and evil spirits with my baby and my best friend... :dohh:

Happy Memorial Day! The four day weekend ends today... phew! How am I going to handle summer vacation? I better start planning now! Are any of you taking trips this summer?


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## wamommy

Any news, Sierra?


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## SierraJourney

Bfn AGAIN! :(


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## wamommy

Poop! I'm sorry, Sierra! I wouldn't worry, though... If it doesn't happen this month I'm SURE it will soon! Besides, you would be due about the beginning of February, in the end of flu season. March would be better anyhow! I have 2 April babies, and I must say that spring babies are the easiest! 

I restarted my "diet" today. I took 2 months off of working out and I pigged out like a champ. I gained back 4 pounds! :dohh: I'm hoping they fall off quickly. I don't restrict too much and I definitely splurge, but I watch my sugar intake and up my protein while I'm training. I actually really missed it. I need that time to myself, even if it's painful!

Do any of your little ones love fruit snacks? I try to ration Max, but he LOVES them! Weird kid. His favorite foods right now are blueberries, cheese, fruit snacks (the non-high fructose corn syrup ones... ya, I fool myself into thinking that somehow makes them healthier!) and popcorn. He told me the other day, "I don't like to eat..." Luca, on the other hand, will eat ANYTHING and enjoy it!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy. I have a bad headache today, so.assuming af will be here tomorrow right on time.... I always thought a spring baby would be nice too...but still kind of hoping it stuck this month. Haha. We will see tomorrow. I've been thinking about getting opks if I'm not pregnant. ..is that too over the top? I feel like I'm gettING obsessive, but really want this baby.since dh has said yes as well! Sigh.... 

Camden likes fruit snacks but likes the squeezy applesauce way more... he goes through tons of "sauce sauce" Expensive! 

Good luck on the diet! I've been slacking lately on my exercising, but mostly because I plan on getting pregnant and not having to worry about how "fat" I've gotten! Lol... I know that's the wrong mentality, but not exercising feels sooooo good! Haha. i.might try to add some yoga here soon, though! 

And for what it's worth--4 pounds sounds like nothing--don't kill yourself over it, but enjoy your time alone doing it!


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## SierraJourney

Well AF came right on time! I had myself fooled with thinking i had pregnancy symptoms. .. sigh..well we'll try for next month!


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## Kellen

Oh well, it will happen. Only a month to wait. Just think, Sierra I have at least three months to wait if Teagen suddenly weaned today (which is not likely). Ever since her five day vomit spree she has wanted to nurse even more. Also her last molar is coming in and it is driving her nuts. I had taken off her amber necklace a few months ago, but put it back on yesterday. It has seemed to relieve some of the irratibility.


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that will be fun to be pregnant together again! I'm sorry about the nursing ---hopefully she'll wean very soon! Camden still wears his amber necklace, so at least she's in good company! ;)


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## wamommy

Bummer, Sierra! Ah well... It will happen soon. It would be awesome for you two to be pregnant together again! Helena, care to join in? Haha...kidding.

I'm not sure what teeth Max is getting, lol. It's SUCH a battle to brush his teeth that I'm more focused on not losing a finger than looking at his teeth! Is brushing hard for any of you? The dentist says his teeth look great, so despite the battle they must be getting clean!


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## SierraJourney

Camden fights teeth brushing too. He loves to brush them himself but cries when I do it. So, I have to play a game a be really exuberant to get a little brushing in...I'm sure I don't get all of the teeth. :/


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## Kellen

No, Praise the Lord! Teagen loves to brush her teeth. I have to keep her from stealing other people's toothbrushes. 

It would be fun to pregnant again at the same time, Sierra. 

Laundry beckons...


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## helena

Oh hi girls!!!!!! I just wrote a huge reply then my phone shut down the window.. Arrrrgh!

Glad to see you are all back here and chatty again :) and testing again Sierra, excitjng times!!
Hah no thanks wamommy, my hands are full with my three and the dog. Another just wouldn't be sensible (Though I did have a weird bleed day 12 of my cycle this month and did wonder...my cycles are a bit unpredictable..have names picked out just in case! Lol, I am terrible)

Kiara is doing well - she is super chatty in bed too. And sings a lot. Very cute. My boys never sang much.


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## DragonflyWing

Wow, I missed a ton of updates! Sorry to hear Teagen was so sick, and that you didn't get your BFP yet, Sierra!

We're doing ok over here. My husband's grandfather passed away last month, so we had a rough couple of weeks (my husband is POA, trustee, and executor of the estate...tons of work), but things are settling down again. 

We had all three kids baptized last Friday, so that was fun. Gunnar and Lily are constant chatter boxes, I can't get them to be quiet for one second of the day :haha:! They are speaking very well, and have most of their pronouns down pat, although they tend to mix up "her" and "him." They have developed a bit of their own twin language as well, and have several words that they say to each other that are obviously made up, but they understand each other perfectly lol. 

I read that 2 year olds are mostly into parallel play rather than interactive play, but the twins spend all day playing games with each other and chasing each other around the house. Yesterday, they were pretending they were Anna and Elsa from Frozen! :lmao: "Run away Elsa!" "No, Anna, go away!" They've only seen the movie twice, but they seem to have internalized a lot of it! They also have tickle fights and sometimes walk around holding hands (when they're not beating each other up). 

Gunnar is super rough-and-tumble, and routinely jumps off the couch, lands flat on his face, and runs away laughing. Meanwhile, Lily stubs her toe and wails for 10 minutes and wants an ice pack :haha:.

Anson is 6 months old now, and I swear he'll be walking by 8-10 months. He already walks all over the house in the walker, walks while holding hands, and is starting to cruise on the furniture a little. No crawling, but he gets around by pulling and pushing himself on his tummy and by rolling across the floor. He knows and uses the hand signs for milk and for diaper change. Lily and Gunnar still use the signs for "all done" and "more" while actually saying the words as well. 

As far as more kids go, we're waiting until the twins are in school. Then we may try for a 4th, but in the meantime, I'm on the mini-pill and still nursing, and my periods have not come back. Yay!

Here's a recent picture of Anson:
 



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## Kellen

Helena - Your family sounds very busy but also very content. How is your mom doing these days? What with my MIL having been recently diagnosed with breast cancer you have been on my mind a lot lately. 

Dragon - Anson is a very handsome fella. He looks like he'll be more than willing to follow the twins into trouble. Teagen still uses signs as well (I encourage her and we learn more together) but is jabbering in non-stop full sentences. 

In 10 days Teagen starts pre-school two days a week. It is more for the social interaction than the education portion. She easily counts to 13 and 20 with help. Knows her alphabet and can point to the corresponding letters. We recently bought a copy of Rachel and the Treeschoolers: Science so she will tell you (in song) that water can be a liquid, solid, or gas and you can call it H2O. 

Weaning is going well. I bought her three books that talk about weaning from a toddler perspective. Now we only nurse for morning snuggles and not for too long. Just enough to wake up. I've been putting essential peppermint oil on the tops of my breasts before bed otherwise I wake up engorged and in pain. Peppermint helps reduce supply and so far it seems to work.


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## SierraJourney

Ha helena! Maybe you'll be testing with me! ;) 

Dragon, Anson is adorable! The twins sound so.sweet as well! 

How long did it take you ladies to conceive your second (or third or fourth) child? I'm obsessing, of course, but read somewhere that you can become infertile after your first child---and I'm sure that's not me, but I just want to have a time frame on how long it might take to get #2! Boy, I really wish I was one of the ladies that don't try but don't prevent...but mo, I obsess over every symptom and count my ovulation days. Haha. :doh:

Kellen---I love peppermint oil for headaches but didn't know it could help engorgement! That's awesome! I'm so glad the weaning is going well!


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## helena

No testing for me - DH was relieved!!!!! 

I think it took us 6 months to conceive our third. Second was maybe three or four months. Each time it was longer. 

Just coming to the end of a two week visit from my inlaws. Kiara still hardly looks at them and hasn't once sat with them.. Such a shy girl (And I was looking forward to being able to share a bit of child care too!!)

Peppy pig is big in kiara's world this week.


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## Kellen

Peppa is a HUGE thing for Teagen too. By huge I mean a Peppa doll, two sets of pajamas, a book and soon a backpack for school next week. Today, however, she discovered Paw Patrol and is now in love with Ryder. 

Too bad about the shyness around the in-laws. Teagen is normally very outgoing, but she clams up around her father's side of the family. They treat her like a baby whereas here at home she is included in most all discussions (that are appropriate) and expected to be a contributing member of the household.

Next Tuesday Teagen starts pre-school for two half days a week. I'm pretty excited for her. She is a little apprehensive and will cling and cry when I tell her that yes, I will be leaving, but I will be coming back for her. I think once I'm gone and she is kept busy she will have an amazing time. Probably sometime Friday or Saturday I am going to take her to the mall and let her pick out a new outfit and shoes for starting school, along with a lunch box.

Weaning continues to be going smoothly. Or at least as smoothly as possible. Some days she doesn't ask at all and others (like this evening) she will try to stick her head down my shirt and nurse. But for the most part we are only nursing when she wakes up in the morning. I am enjoying the feeling of eventually being able to leave her with someone and that they will be able to put her to bed or down for a "rest."

How long do your kiddos nap for? Because of the bright summer sun (even with blackout curtains) Teagen has been getting up around 5:45 - 6:30, napping from 1:30-4 or 2-4:30 and then asleep by 9pm.


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## wamommy

Dragon, Anson is adorable! I'm sure he'll have so much fun chasing after the twins. How does Gunnar like him? We're still struggling with Max not liking Luca... :dohh:

Helena, my older girls even love Peppa Pig! There aren't a ton of episodes, so I think I've seen every one a few times, lol. It's a cute show, though. Max prefers Bubble Guppies and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. 

Sierra, I'm not sure how long it took to conceive each time, actually! My first we needed fertility assistance, so that one doesn't count. The second was a complete surprise, since I thought we couldn't have babies naturally, so I don't know! With Max I had back-to-back miscarriages and then conceived him right away, but I've hear that's common to be so fertile after a miscarriage. Luca was another surprise, so I don't know...lol. I wouldn't worry, though. My brother and his wife just celebrated their one year anniversary and his wife is about 18 weeks pregnant. They've been actively trying since their wedding day! lol. It can take a while, but I'm sure it won't for you. 

Kellen, I hope Teagen enjoys school! I'm sure it will be fun and become part of the routine that she really enjoys. As for naps, Max is all over the place. He usually gets up at 7am and naps around 1 or 2pm for about an hour. He goes to sleep at 8:30. Sometimes he doesn't nap at all, and sometimes we have to wake him up after 2 hours so that he'll sleep at night! He also has a lot of nightmares. He wakes up screaming bloody murder and mumbling about this or that. It's pretty disconcerting. 

We bought a little pool for the yard since it's been in the 80s the last couple of days. Max LOVES it! Even though the water from the house was so cold that his lips were blue and he was shivering. I'd say, "want to go inside?" and he'd chatter, "no, I'm fine." Weird kid. I think the kids spent an hour straight out there yesterday. I'm kind of dreading summer break. All 4 kids all day every day for 3 months is a little daunting!


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## helena

Oh wamommy i am with you on your fear of the summer break!! I hope to plan lots of picnics and trips to pRks, but my eldest two have been going to these parks for years and might get bored... We have about 9 weeks off starting July and luckily DH has three week off in the middle to save my sanity!!


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## Kellen

We joined our local library's summer reading program this morning. Teagen was thrilled to be able to pick out books and take them home. She was so excited that she willing put herself down for a nap so that we can read more when she wakes up. 

Yesterday my mom bought Teagen a pair of butterfly wings. This morning Teagen was sooo excited to wake up and be a butterfly that she completely forgot about nursing. She hasn't asked to nurse all day. This is the longest we have gone without nursing in almost 2.5 years. I'm thrilled!

Also found out that DH gets to come home for a quick visit in mid-July. I'm looking forward to having him around for four days. Teagen really misses her daddy, but gets to talk with him at least once a day and facetime when he has cell signal.

Today Teagen brought me one of her signing DVDs. It happened to be the one about school. She very seriously brought it to me and said: "Mommy, Teagen needs to learn about going to school. Watch Rachel please." Before lunch she was skipping around the kitchen singing: "Welcome to school! Grab your chili please! Welcome to school, eat your cottage cheese!" Which oddly enough was what she wanted to eat for lunch.


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## SierraJourney

Camden goes to bed around 8pm, wakes up around 6:30am. He Naps usually from 1:30-2:30/3:30. 

Thanks for the encouragement on ttc #2---we're trying hard this month, so we shall see what happens! I'm 1 dpo today, so the wait begins! ;) 

Camden goes to the park almost every day and hasn't gotten sick of it yet! Haha in fact, he begs for it multiple times a day! 

Does anyone else's lo repeat things over and over again even after you answer them? Camden will ask for something like the park, park, park, park and get up in my face and repeat it over and over even after I tell him "yes "wait" or "not right now". He does this with anything he asks for --tv shows, snacks, toys, etc. I always make it a point to answer him right away but it doesn't seem to help. :/


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## Kellen

So today was Teagen's first and last day of school. I dropped her off at 8:30. When I started to leave she started to cry. The teacher told me just to leave because it makes it easier. I listened and I know that is sometimes true when I work in the nursery.

Well, when I came back at 12:30 she had tear tracks on her face, her lunch had barely been touched and she refused to chat about her day at school. The teachers didn't tell me how she did. Did give me any feedback. Barely noticed that I took her from the classroom.

The director is out of town on vacation this week, but next week I will be calling her to let her know that I am very disappointed and Teagen will not be attending their school. I realize that this was her first day, but the fact that they obviously could not calm her down for 4 hours is a bit upsetting, especially since they didn't call me. If I had a child who was practically inconsolable for four hours you better believe I'd be calling the parent just to let them know. If they parent said keep trying that is one thing...

Anyways... rant over. Teagen's newest obsession is Paw Patrol. She has the cutest crush on Ryder. It is adorable. 

Sierra - Teagen does the repeating thing over and over again too... even though the question has been answered multiple times. Some times it is cute and other times it drives me up the wall!


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen ---I would have been so mad at that school! Poor Teagen! That just breaks my heart. Good for you for not sending her back!


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## wamommy

How sad, Kellen! I agree that a few tears at the first drop-off is normal, but 4 hours?? I would not have been happy either. Poor sweet girl. :( You're right to follow your instincts.

Sierra, what is it, about 8 dpo now? Haha! Any testing?

The U.S. Open is this week about a mile from my house at Chambers Bay Golf course. It is INSANE around here. Streets are blocked off, cops are everywhere, and there's a million tour buses, since University Place can't handle hundreds of thousands of extra cars so people are bused in from huge fields around the area... Crazy! We went down there to check it out on Sunday. It was free to walk the grounds before the Open started yesterday. We had to park in the middle of a huge field and walk a mile to stand in line for an hour to catch a shuttle down to the course. There was an entire tent city built where we usually fly kites! I was shocked! The merchandise tent was as big as a Nordstrom, and there were a TON of people there. Max was a trooper and slept in his stroller. :) This whole week and especially during the final round on the weekend, I think we'll just stay home!
 



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## SierraJourney

Wamommy--YES! 8dpo--tested yesterday and today, both negative. No symptoms yet either. We'll see! I'd love to.surprise dh with it on father's day!

It must be CRAZY around you right now--I'm glad you got out to see it, but I'd probably stay home the rest of the time too! Your kiddos are so sweet. Lovely that Max slept, too!!


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## wamommy

Sierra, and news? :test:


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## SierraJourney

No news except big fat BFNs. :( my period is due tomorrow. Although I still hope for a bfp, I fully expect af to show. :(


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## SierraJourney

Guys!! No AF this morning when it was due (and I usually get it as soon as I wake up)--and then THESE! They are super light, but showed up right away! What do you think? I'm in unbelief! They are hard to see on the computer. I'm going to try to buy another frer and test later, but I swear they are there!
 



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## wamommy

I see it, Sierra!! Oh, exciting!!!! I can't wait for the next test!:happydance:


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## SierraJourney

I bought frers but am waiting for tomorrow morning to use one of those, but I took another ic this afternoon and it still has a faint line! :) I hope it's okay that it's so faint, but I felt what I think might have been implantation cramping on 11 or 12dpo... so maybe I just implanted late.. ?


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## SierraJourney

Well, today's tests looked the same as yesterday. The same faint line. Went to the doctor and they had a negative urine pregnancy test. They are running blood levels, so I should know that tomorrow sometime. I know these lines are real. I've taken 3 different types if tests and gotten lines. I'm just hoping it's really early still and that's why the dr didn't get a positive.... the waiting is killing me! Lol


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## SierraJourney

Today's tests
 



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## wamommy

I can definitely see lines on those tests, especially the FRER! Fingers crossed, and I can't wait to hear what the Dr. results are. Keep us posted! It's very possible that you ovulated or implanted late. What fun it would be to welcome another baby!

I tore a tendon in my right elbow and I can't even lift my cell phone...ugh. I was doing plyo pushups, which probably wasn't too smart. DH said that it happened because tendons strengthen much slower than muscle, so in essence my stronger muscles could handle my workouts, but the tendon couldn't. :( Ah well... it's an excuse not to work out!


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! I really appreciate your encouragement! I'm going to continue testing with the cheapies for a while since I have a lot. I'm hoping tomorrow's is darker! I'm incredibly bloated today, so I really hope there is a reason for it! Lol

Your elbow sounds soooo painful! I'm sorry you hurt it so badly--but I would welcome the excuse from working out, too. ;)


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## SierraJourney

This morning's test! Getting darker!! :) :) :)
 



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## DragonflyWing

OMG you're pregnant! That is undeniably positive, Sierra :D 

I am so excited for you!


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## SierraJourney

Thank you so much!! I'm really excited too! I wish my blood work came back better, though. They wouldn't tell me a number, but instead said it was indescript and I'd have to get more blood drawn on Monday. I read online that drs say that when your levels are between 5 and 25 Miu , so I'm just assuming it was because my lecell are still low, but I'm a but bummed because I really wanted that confirmation of pregnancy. 

Awww well, the tests don't lie and ill.just keep testing until my blood work shows positive! :) dang sensitive hpts! ;)

Sooooo excited! !


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## wamommy

Hurray, Sierra!! Congrats!! :happydance: Is your DH excited?


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## SierraJourney

He is! He's still a bit shocked, but has been suggesting names for the baby already. :)


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## Kellen

Congrats, Sierra! That is awesome.

Wamommy - My ankle and knee sympathize with your elbow. Remember when I stupidly dropped an ice pack on my ankle and broke it back in October? Well, it never really healed and it constantly swells up and turns nasty colors. I have a doctor's appointment on Monday to talk about options. I'm also going to be asking who and when I can have my IUD removed. 

Teagen is down to only nursing in the mornings when she remembers. Right now she is missing DH terribly and wants morning cuddles and nursing because "I miss, Daddy." She has also taken to wearing his t-shirts to bed so she can "cuddle with Daddy all night."

This child is going to eat me out of house and home. She is on a super growth spurt. At this time she is 38" tall! Poor thing has no waist so she either wears super short 2Ts for the waist or really baggy 4Ts for the length. Thank goodness for dresses in the summer!

When DH comes home we gain another family member too. His nephew C is flying in the next day from Texas to work for us at the shop and around the farm. We'll see how that works out...


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## SierraJourney

Kellen--that's so exciting that Teagen is weaning so well.and you're discussing getting your iud removed! If you do it soon, we can be bump buddies again! ;) let us know how the appointment goes!

Camden eats a ton of food, too! He's tall for his age, but pretty slim. He still fits in 18 month shorts for the waist at least! 

Here is this morning's frer!! It makes me happy. :) I got.more blood work done and will.know results this afternoon ---hopefully after this the dr will.believe that I'm pregnant! :)
 



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## DragonflyWing

Wow! Super positive now :D :happydance:


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## wamommy

:happydance: Oh my gosh, Sierra!! That is an awesome line! I'm so happy for you! :happydance:

Max is not an eater at all. He tells me "I don't like to eat..." He will eat a few bites at a time, but that's it. The only foods he'll scarf down are blueberries, watermelon, and popcorn. Sometimes he'll nibble a quarter of a piece of pizza, but for the most part he'd rather starve. We've gone to giving him toddler nutritional drinks. His weight is normal, although he's not the cute chub that he once was. He's short, I think. DH says it's the Japanese gene, since his Mom was only 5 feet. That would make sense, since Max looks WAY more Japanese than my girls and Luca. They could pass for purely white. 

Luca, on the other hand, LOVES food like I've never seen before. He'll eat anything I put in front of him and has mastered chewing with his 7 front teeth. :haha: He's really chubby. I get stopped in the mall all the time by people who want to squeeze his chubby legs!! He wears 18 month clothes. Max is only in 24 month, and they're loose! I'll wager that Luca will pass Max in size by the time they're in school.

Kellen, your ankle sounds so painful. :( I'm so sorry! Do they think it needs to be repaired?


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## SierraJourney

I guess I should rephrase a bit--Camden only loves to eat when someone else is feeding him. Does anyone else go through this? If we feed him bites, he'll eat super well! However, if we just set food in front of him, he'll barely take a bite---unless it's strawberries or oranges, then he'll eat them all. I keep telling DH that we've gotten into a horrible habit that Camden won't feed himself---but if we don't feed him by hand, he won't eat! (I think he's too busy and doesn't want to take the time) And he hardly uses utensils---if he does feed himself, it has to be finger food. :( I'm not really sure how to fix this. . . . Do the rest of your lo's feed themselves?


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## wamommy

Max is the exact opposite. He has to do almost everything himself, including eating. He HATES dirty hands, so he's obsessed with utensils and freaks out if anything gets on his hands and we have to drop everything and wipe his hands or he won't continue eating. I have to cut up pizza, grilled cheese, etc so that he can eat it with a fork! Haha. 

Yesterday we were in the craft store and Max said, "I'm cold." It's 80 degrees here, so I knew that meant he was about to spike a fever. Sure enough, we got home and within an hour his temperature went from 99 to 103. :( Ibuprofen brought it down, but the poor guy is miserable. I thought summer was supposed to be "sick free" time! Ugh.


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## SierraJourney

Oh no! Poor Max ! :( oh I hope it gets over quickly! :( 

That's so funny that Max won't touch food. Crazy how different they all are!


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## SierraJourney

Just got a call back from my doctor: blood test came back POSITIVE! it's official even though I knew it already! ;) 

Anyone else's doctor not do an ultrasound until 20 weeks? This is a new dr due to new insurance and I'll only get one.ultrasound at 20 weeks! Last time I had them at 8, 12, 20, and 30 weeks!


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## wamommy

I had one at about 10 weeks to confirm gestational age, then one at 20-21 weeks and that was it...except with Luca, since I was technically "advanced maternal age" they did another at 32 weeks. :haha: Just tell them you're unsure how pregnant you are and they may do one sooner!

I'm so happy for you guys, Sierra! Kellen, I hope you 2 can be bump buddies again. How fun would that be??


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## SierraJourney

Thanks wamommy! :) I thought about telling them I'm not sure when my.last period was...dh says that's ridiculous, but I'd like an extra scan! ;)


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## Kellen

Hello Everyone!

Congrats on the super positive, Sierra. That is awesome!

My ankle healed perfectly well... I have "residual arthritis" according to the doctor. Never got around to talking about the IUD as Teagen drug my mom into the room with us. Um, not exactly a thing I want to talk about with her in the room.

Teagen is an amazing eater. Most of the time she enjoys being independent with her food and like Max does not like dirty hands. I keep a damp washcloth beside her plate so she can wipe her hands as she goes so we don't have a million trips to the sink. There are times, however, that she enjoys having me wield the spoon or fork. 

DH will be home in a little under two weeks. Their schedule has changed so he might get to be home for two full weeks... which would be amazing and fit in nicely to when I'll be ovulating next. Not that we'll need an excuse...

Teagen had a 48 hour fever for the past two days too. She spiked really high the night before last. I had her sleep with me and even though the room was only 68* her poor little body was still hot to the touch. She asked to sleep with her "scarves" which are kind of bean bag freezer things. Thankfully she got much more sleep last night and seems recovered this morning.


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## SierraJourney

Bummers about not being able to talk about removing the IUD. I hope you can get another appointment soon so you and DH and get busy when he's back! :rofl:

I'm 6 weeks, 1 day pregnant today. I'm soooooo worried this pregnancy because I'm feeling really good so far. . .by this time when I was pregnant with Camden, I was already getting pretty sick. :( 

I'm trying to figure out when to tell our families about baby #2. . .as far as they all know right now, they still think DH doesn't want another baby. . .so I can't wait to surprise them! I jut am nervous to spill the beans before hearing the heartbeat. .. but we'll be seeing our families multiple times before we hear the heartbeat and I'm not sure I will be able to explain away the not drinking (one is a family wedding) and severe bloat that makes me look like I'm 20 weeks already. . .lol 

What are your guys' thoughts? How soon did you all tell?


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## DragonflyWing

With both pregnancies, we told people around 8 weeks. I told my sister right away as soon as I got the positive tests both times lol! Even before I told DH :haha:

I can't keep big secrets like that. Although, the second time I wasn't as eager to tell everyone, since some people were horrified that we were already having a third when the twins were only 15 months at the time. I think when we have a fourth (probably when the twins go to school), people will start thinking we're crazy...but we both want one more before we're done.

Anyway, I when I got my first ultrasounds at about 7-8 weeks, I'd show people the picture and tell them I was pregnant. Obviously, the first time had a bigger reaction with two in there! I didn't do any special announcements. 

Speaking of food, I'm glad to hear all the variations in toddler eating behaviors! Gunnar is a big eater, although he never stops moving so he's starting to lose his baby fat and getting tall and thin like his daddy. Lily is a pokey eater, she takes forever and is really picky. She and DH lock horns pretty frequently over food. She gets really stubborn and won't eat the last bite of something, and DH absolutely won't give in, so they end up staring at each other sullenly for an hour or more until she finally eats it, or DH puts her in time out. I don't agree with that course of action and making such a big deal over eating, but he's got a major pet peeve about wasting food. :-\

They both LOVE granola and most fruit. Graham crackers, beans, and raisins are other favorites. They both like meat, Lily won't eat cooked onions or beets. Gunnar has never turned down anything! We don't really give them sweets or junk food aside from Teddy Grahams as a treat for going on the potty or doing something extra nice. Once in a while we share a little ice cream with them. An average day for them looks like this:

Breakfast: granola, yogurt with applesauce, banana
Lunch: beans, cheese, blueberries, peanut butter toast
Dinner: cut up chicken with rice and sauce (one day last week we had chicken tikka masala), pineapple, corn, graham crackers
Snack: raisins, string cheese
They drink lots of milk and water all day long, and they get half a Flintstone vitamin with breakfast. Do you guys still give vitamins?


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## wamommy

Wow, 6 weeks already Sierra?? Yay! Maybe it's a girl this time, and THAT'S why it's so different! :winkwink: 

I told everyone with babies 1 and 2 at about 13 weeks as I went into the 2nd trimester. With Max I think I was around 15 or 16 weeks, since I wanted to tell everyone in person. When Luca came around I was SO terrified to tell everyone that I was 5 months along!! :haha: I think it's totally personal preference, and that everyone will be thrilled!

Dragon, I'm ashamed to admit that our daily eating falls TERRIBLY short of how healthy yours is! I can't get Max to eat anything really, and my girls are terrible about healthy choices. They constantly snack and it's a huge challenge to put things in the house that are healthy and tasty enough for them to eat. I just got home from costco where we bought a ton of blueberries, so Max is set for a week or two... sigh.

How was everyone's 4th? We went to Leavenworth, a small Bavarian town in the mountains. It looks like you're in the middle of Germany or Austria, but it's only 3 hours from home. There was a children's festival and the girls swam for the first time. It was 105 degrees though. Yikes! I thought it would be easier in the hotel room with the kids, but it is impossible to baby proof a hotel room. There are plugs, wires, curtains to pull down, and a million sharp corners. The first thing Luca did was run into the bathroom and climb into the tub. BAM! He smacked his head on the bottom of the tub and has an enormous goose egg. Poor guy.

Kellen, your DH should be home super soon, right? I'm excited for you to get to spend time with him! The story about Teagen and his T-shirt is incredibly adorable. Also, You mentioned a while ago that you were catching up on Game of Thrones and Outlander. I love Game of Thrones and am always looking for new shows, so I thought I'd check Outlander out. Oh my goodness, I am HOOKED! We're watching season 1 fanale tonight on ON Damand. When does season 2 come out??


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## Kellen

Sierra - 6 weeks! Hooray! We waited until 12 weeks with Teagen due to our first ectopic pregnancy. We lost that baby at 7 weeks so we were very cautious about announcing anything. I suspect we'll be the same way with the next one. As for not drinking just tell people that you're doing a whole body cleanse or something. Or you want to be clear headed to chase after Camden.

Dragon - Wow. You have scheduled meals... Actually, we're pretty good about meals too, but rarely have the same thing. Breakfast ranges from applesauce, to English muffins, to pancakes to oatmeal. Lunch it depends on the leftovers or where we go to eat. Dinner is the same thing. With three different cooks in the house it depends on what we can cobble together from the pantry/fridge/freezer.

Wamommy - ONE WEEK UNTIL DH IS HOME! Whooo! I'm not excited. Also - excellent news about Outlander being a new favorite of yours. I think season two comes out this fall? They are still doing some casting and I don't think they have started filming yet. You really should read the books. They are stellar.

In sad news one of my friends who had a little boy on Feb 6, 2013 just lost her baby who was 4 months old to SIDS. She also has a little one Luca's age too seeing as they had an oops after baby #2 too. I can't imagine how hard it would be to loose a child that you have gotten to hold and love and name.


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## DragonflyWing

Oh that is so sad, Kellen. :( I'm so sorry for their loss.

We do have theoretically scheduled meals lol, but a lot of the time it works out differently; that was just an example of a fairly good day! Lately their naps have been wacky, so sometimes they sleep through either lunch or dinner, and then need a bigger snack before bed. Aside from their evening snack, they don't really eat between meals. Mostly they dictate their own meal times, they tell us when they're hungry. 

Anson has started eating solids, he's still on single ingredient purees mixed with rice cereal since we started a little late (6.5 months). I've let him gnaw on chunks of banana, and yesterday he ate his first grape (there was a tiny baby grape in the bag and I let him have it to practice his pincer grip)! It's a little sad now that he's eating solids and getting teeth (5 so far), he's growing up so fast! Where's my little nursling going? DH is already talking about having another, but I said we really have to wait until the twins are in school if possible, plus I have not gotten AF back since Anson was born AND I'm on the mini-pill, so no babies right now!


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## SierraJourney

Oh Kellen, that is just so sad! :( :( Heartbreaking! :(

wamommy----our 4th was quiet---we just had a picnic in the park and watched the parade. We found out that Camden is terribly afraid of fireworks. . .lol. . .

Kellen---I'm so happy that DH will be home soon---you must be just over the moon!

I got a little scare last night as I saw a couple drops of blood a few times when I went to use the bathroom. . .but nothing today. I called the dr and they said sometimes women spot throughout pregnancy, but I'm wondering now if the outside of my vagina (tmi) was bleeding because it's been a bit irritated with the extra cm (that happened with Camden too). So, I'm praying the blood doesn't come back! AND, I got sick for the first time today---so I think that baby is doing pretty good in there. :)


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## SierraJourney

How's everyone doing? It's been absolutely crazy here! Dh got a new job, which means another move for us (about an hour away). We put our house on the market, and are house hunting pretty heavily. 

I am more sick with this baby than u ever was with Camden. I'm lucky if I can keep 2 pieces of toast and a glass of water down a day. I'm losing weight, and hoping to go in to a dr this week or next to see if baby is doing okay during all of this. (With the job switch we were without insurance so I couldn't go to the dr...but now we have insurance again...phew!)

What have you lovely ladies been up to?


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## wamommy

Oh Kellen, I can't imagine! How terribly sad... :( On a happier note, DH is home now, right? Yay! Teagen must be over the moon.

Sierra, it sounds like you have a TON going on! I'm sorry you're so sick with this one. Hopefully it will pass soon. You're only a month from 2nd trimester, so hopefully it will ease up. Argh. I'm still sticking to my girl theory/ :winkwink:

DH has decided that we should make camping our new weekend activity with the kids. We bought a used HUGE tent and sleeping bags and headed out a couple of weekends ago. The ground was covered in rocks so we bought a few air mattresses and went out again this past weekend. It was better, but still nuts. Camping with 4 kids (AND my 18-year-old step-daughter and her boyfriend) is not at all relaxing. It's exhausting! The kids love it and it's pretty cheap now that we have all the gear. We're going out again this Sunday. To be honest, I feel like I go along as child care so that my husband can do the fun memory making stuff with the kids. Ah well, as long as they enjoy it I suppose.

Dragon, Anson is getting so big! Isn't it amazing how fast they grow? Luca is running around the house and speaking (kind of) now, and I miss the babe-in-arms stage somewhat. In other ways it's easier now. 

Helena, how have you been? Miss you!


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## wamommy

How is everyone?


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## SierraJourney

Almost 14 weeks pregnant and dealing with horrible morning sickness still. :(

I have my first midwife appt on Wednesday so I'm super excited about that. 

How are you all doing?


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## wamommy

I'm looking forward to school starting! I LOVE my kids, but 24 hours a day for 3 months straight is enough to drive me batty. I had a pretty good routine going during the school year and I can't wait to get back to it. That, and I feel guilty when I can't spend a ton of one-on-one time with each kid, and I see them getting bored and fighting each other or watching too much TV. I love their school and feel like sending them is as much of a joy for them as it is a break for me. One more week! 

We sent my step-daughter off to college this week. DH is taking is really hard. I'm actually surprised how sad I was to see her go, too. There were some (quite a few) tough years in there, but the last year or so she and I really got along and I actually viewed her as an ally instead of an adversary. She seems terribly home sick and unhappy, but I'm hoping she'll meet some friends and love her classes and things will turn around.

Sierra, I can't believe you're 14 weeks already! Yeehaw second tri!! I'm so sorry that you're still sick, though. :( Maybe your midwife can help you on Wednesday. How is the move going?

Kellen, how is your time with DH? Any news about baby #2? :winkwink:


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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, how's school going? Are you getting any time to yourself now that the kiddos are in school? I hope it's a great transition! 

We haven't moved yet... still trying to sell our house. We had an offer but backed out of it because they kept wanting more money taken off. So, we're staying put until we get a buyer. 

Baby is doing great and I'm now 17 weeks! Camden got to hear the heartbeat last week and now keeps talking about the "Baby sound " :) So precious. 

How is everyone?


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## wamommy

Sierra, 21 weeks! How exciting! How are you feeling? Are you still sick? How's the house selling going? 

How is everyone else doing? It's been so quiet lately. I miss you, ladies!

As for me, life keeps chugging along. Things have been rough with DH (like, horrible, terrible, awful), but the kids are doing well. My brother had his first baby yesterday. Yay! My Dad is coming to visit this weekend from San Diego. Luckily I just finished cleaning out my step-daughter's room so he has a nice guest room to stay in. After he leaves the girls will be sharing that room. We still have to paint and clean the carpets. 

Max is growing up! He speaks SO well, but has a bit of an attitude problem. He's a weird mix of the most adorable and loving little boy and the most stubborn, confrontational little person. I think he may be on the small side. He just transitioned into 3t sleepers, but he's in a lot of 2t clothes. He wears a size 7 shoe. Is he small?
Also, how is potty training going for everyone? Is MAx the only one still in diapers? He has zero interest in the potty. I don't know what to do!

I hope all is well with all of you! Time to get the kids off to school!


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## SierraJourney

Hey wamommy!! I'm feeling pretty good. I had another bout of morning sickness at 20 weeks, but so far so good this week. :) And, we found out that this baby is another BOY!! We're delighted! 

The house hasn't sold yet, do we're thinking of just sticking out the winter here for a bit...we'll see. I believe God has a plan in it all, so just trusting Him right now. 

I'm so sorry to hear how bad things are going with DH. I really wish there was some advice I could give you.... but until then...I'm willing to be a listening ear and sending you hugs... 

Max sounds perfect to me! Camden is still in 2T, except for the rare 3T pant that might fit his length...he's long for his age, but so thin that 2T pants even fall down on him. Poor.kiddo. Camden is just transitioning into 3T sleepers as well and still in size 7 shoe! They're exactly the same size it seems! ! :)

As far as potty training, I've been.told not even to attempt potty training boys until they are 3...lol...so I think you're totally fine! Camden is potty trained which everyone has told me is incredible for his age... he still wears diapers at naps and bedtime. Sometimes for naps, he'll wake up dry, but still very much needs a diaper at bedtime. I've heard some boys even need pull ups on at night when they are in elementary school--something with their anatomy. ..it just doesn't wake them up.when the have to go... :shrug: I'm a huge proponent of going with their time table...if.Max isn't ready, dont push him... hell learn eventually and it'll be a lot easier than forcing him.

It's soooo good hearing from you. I miss you ladies!


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## DragonflyWing

So good to hear from you two! Congratulations on another boy, Sierra! How exciting :)

Gunnar seems to be about the same size as Max and Camden- he is in a size 7 shoe and is just transitioning to some 3T clothes. He still fits in most 2T pants and shirts, but the 2T sleepers are getting tight. He is 34 pounds. Not sure on height, but I think he's around 75th percentile there.

Lily is even smaller, she's wearing a size 6 shoe and still fits in all her 2T clothes, and even most of her 24 month clothes. She is 30 pounds, and a couple of inches shorter than Gunnar, somewhere around the 30th percentile. She's a little peanut!

Anson, on the other hand, is giant! He's 11 months, 23 pounds, and around the 85th percentile for everything except his head, which is off the charts huge. He also started walking at 8 months, and is now running around and keeping up with the twins. I think in about a year, people will think I have triplets! 

Max is not alone! Both twins are still in diapers, and refuse to use the toilet. It's so frustrating, because they were both enthusiastically using the potty when they were 18 months, but then Anson was born and it completely derailed them. I'm actually running out of options for Gunnar, because size 6 diapers are leaking almost every night, and that's the biggest size! Anson is catching up there too, as he is now transitioning to size 5 diapers. Those weight ranges are way out of whack for us. Size 4 is supposed to go up to 37 pounds! On what, a string bean?

The twins are doing great with their speech, they even have their pronouns correct most of the time. Gunnar gets a little confused between "him" and "her." Yesterday, I got home from work and Lily said "Mama, Gunnar is being mean to me and making me feel bad." I was kind of like "Wow, that was well articulated! Now tell me what he's doing." lol


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## wamommy

Congrats on another boy, Sierra! Yay! :) I'm so excited for you guys. Did you keep all of Camden's stuff? It's smart to wait on the right situation with your house. It's great that you have the option to wait it out! We're now on the hunt for the perfect place to move. I'm kind of not thinking California anymore. I do have family there, but some stuff has happened lately that makes me think maybe it would involve my kids in more drama than I want to deal with. My sister and my Dad are always at odds and using me to get at each other. I don't have the emotional energy for that! If you could live anywhere in the US where would you choose? Assume you don't have to think about family or job. I'm curious to know what you think!

It's funny that all of our boys are about the same size. Dragon, Lily sounds adorably small! Her speech is GREAT! Luca us almost as big as Max at only 18 months old, lol. It's funny to watch them wrestle and it's pretty even! Once the teeth come out I jump in and stop it, but I let them roll around for a while first. :haha: I'm with you on diaper sizing. It's totally based on a very specific shaped baby. My pudgy little ones need a size 4 by 6 or 7 months and then they can wear a size 4 until 2 as they thin out! LOL Luca wears a 4 in the day and a 5 at night, and Max wears a 5 all the time. About half the time he "blows out" during the night, though. hurray!

How was everyone's Halloween? It rained here (gasp, shock) but we went out trick-or-treating anyway. My oldest was a monkey-pirate-princess-fairy. She definitely has a great imagination! I tried to do monkey face paint. Let's just say I'm not artistic! My second daughter was a kitty (jaguar if you asked her), Max was Mario and Luca was his very cute self! We went to the girls' school dance after trick or treating and it was SO fun! Max loved the music and lights. He cried when it was time to leave and on the way home sleepily said, "dancing is fun." It was a good night. I was thankful for all of the Halloweens my own mom put on. It's exhausting!

Kellen and Helena, it's been a long time! How are you two?


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## wamommy

Here they are! I could get a shot with everyone looking to save my life!
 



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## SierraJourney

Wamommy, your kiddos are so cute! They look like they loved every minute of dressing up! We just passed out candy this year. I'm really protective and not quite comfortable letting Camden go door-to-door right now (In my paranoid head, I am worried he'll think it's okay to go up to stranger's houses any day of the year.) I'm waiting until he's a bit older, I think, or we might just stick to Trunk-Or-Treats at church. 

And, yes, I did save all of Camden's stuff---which I'm really glad for because this baby is due exactly 3 weeks after Camden was born---which means they'll be in the same season of clothes and everything! I'm trying to convince DH that we need a new crib for this baby. Camden's crib has been transitioned to a toddler bed for him, which he loves, and I'm not quite sure if I want to "kick" him out of it for the baby. What did you ladies do when baby #2 (or 3 or 4) came? New crib or no? 

It's amazing how much stuff I seem to be adding to my list to buy for baby even though they are the same gender. . . New crib, dresser, crib sheets, new bibs, etc. . . I'm trying not to go overboard because I know we'd have everything we need without the new stuff. . .but I also want this to be special, too. . .I dunno. . .we'll see how much I can make the finances stretch for all of the extras. ;)

We're doing cloth diapers again with this one. We didn't start Camden on cloth diapers until he was 8 months old, so cloth diapering a newborn will be new to me---but I'm way excited about it. :)

If I could move anywhere in the US, I'd probably pick Maine---it's so beautiful there!! Are you truly considering moving anywhere, or still close to the West Coast?


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## DragonflyWing

Wamommy, the kids are so cute! Here are the twins. They had a lot of fun trick or treating!
 



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## wamommy

Dragonfly, what a cute pic! What cute costumes. :) It was rainy on Halloween here, too. DH had the umbrella for him and Max, so Luca (in the Ergo) and I got pretty wet. :haha:

Sierra, it's so funny that you picked Maine! My step daughter is in college there at Maine Maritime Academy right now. She's on a full military scholarship and will graduate as an Officer in the Navy. She isn't super fond of the cold, so she's not impressed, lol. I think truly appreciating beautiful nature and views comes with age. That, and growing up in Seattle she's used to coast and water views. That's the one thing I'm afraid I'll miss if we leave here. I LOVE Mt Rainier and the Puget Sound. I love that there is skiing and water sports and hiking and still a pretty liberal and lively city. I wouldn't actually leave except that DH really wants to go somewhere warmer. He grew up (mostly) in Hawaii, so he hates the long rainy season here. I _would_ like the kids to be able to go out and play in the yard or go bike riding every day instead of constantly telling them, "no honey, it's too wet out." I guess that's the only stipulation for moving is that it has to be warmer. We're considering mainly somewhere in California, Texas, or somewhere I haven't thought of yet, lol. I do research and it seems impossible to know if you'd like somewhere unless you've spent time there. :shrug:

Sierra, I totally get wanting each child to have their own stuff. I did get a new crib for my second because my first was still in her crib at 19 months. I also bought a new crib for Luca (not that he ever uses it) because the girls chewed the rails of their cribs so badly and Max never slept in one. I also bought a new excersaucer for Luca and my second daughter. There have been soome new clothes for each, too. It's this pull to make the new child feel just as important as the first. I think it's normal and fun! I can't wait for you to meet this new little one!

I'm off to Rug Doctor my girls' new room. They are moving into my step daughter's huge room and it's almost done. They each have loft bed and the room is painted bright blue on one side and hot pink on the other. :dohh: It's what they wanted!

Hope all is well with everyone!


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## helena

Hi ladies!!!!!!!!!!! 
Omg it's been too long. I don't even have an excuse other than life has been busy busy. I need to read through your latest posts. Hey Sierra - congrats on your pregnancy!!!!!!!! Very exciting :)

Kiara is growing well. She is a little madam... Very very cute and loving but cheeky as hell when she wants to. She has learnt a "bad" word from her 7 year old brother. It's not swearing but definitely slang (it's French for "very very stupid"). And she uses it in context now.. Yikes! I try and not giggle. 

She goes to crèche one morning a week and is only just getting used to it.

I am still having a vet busy life with three kiddos and a mum suffering from secondary breast cancer - incredibly she is still with us three years after diagnosis. It's wonderful she is here, but I am emotionally exhausted. But obviously that's just fine, it's great we are getting another Christmas :)

I am still a stay at home mummy and no plans to go back to work. Or have more babies ;) 
We have a lovely puppy - 6 months old Lily, a springer spaniel. We did have a male dog too but he was a bit full on so we found him another loving home.

Anyway, I will try my hardest to not be so quiet in future!! Love to you all X X X X x


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## helena




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## wamommy

It's great to hear from you, Helena!!! I've been wondering how you are and am so glad to know you're doing well. Kiara is a doll! What a gorgeous girl. :) I wouldn't worry about her language. The other day I told Max to do something and he turned around and said, "you're a bully and a sh**head too!" I was shocked, but burst out laughing. I probably shouldn't have, but couldn't help it! I don't know where he learned it, but I hope he doesn't say it out of the house.

Thank goodness your Mom is doing well. yay! Thank you so much for the update. Love to you, too!


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## helena

Haha! It's so good to know max said those words. I laughed out loud over X factor, as I sit here watching tv. Remember that story for his 21st birthday :)

I don't know why I went so quiet, but I promise to be around more. I think my life just got so full that something had to go....
But it's such a relief my mum is stable for now, so I have some more "space" in my head.. If that makes any sense?! We thought we had six months.. That was almost three years ago (I got my mums diagnosis on the very day I brought Kiara home from th who spiral, how cruel is that!?). I should be grateful, but life and emotions don't always work out that way. I feel cheated. She is only 68. And I have been grieving three years..my Children do keep me focused, they give me hope for a future. And make me laugh every day (as well as make me mad.. But it's all good ;))
I don't mean to post such miserable posts... Life really is ok, for now.

Today is a bad day here in France though - following the Paris attacks. I am a long way from Paris (6 hrs by car) but it's scarey...I worry for the kids... We let in so many refugees.. And quite rightly so I thought, I was moved by the photos of babies and children and parents crying, trying to escape Syria. But then you read how ISIS threatened to send terrorists as refugees.. And then attacks like this.. And one was a refugee.. And you start to worry about the future for our kids... Should move to Australia..


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## DragonflyWing

Good to hear from you helena, and Kiara is adorable! My heart aches for all those affected by the Paris attacks, so many prayers sent your way.

As to the language, Gunnar picked up the "f" word somewhere (probably a movie, sometimes we are surprised what they can hear from the bedroom, even when we think they're asleep!), and for some reason keep saying "get the f--king out!" LOL We are discouraging it as best we can, but it's hilarious.

Also, they are using creative insults on each other. I often hear "Lily, you are being obnoxious!" "I am not being obnoxious, Gunnar! You are being foolish!" :lol:


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## helena

Haha Dragon, that's so funny!! (As long as they don't do it mid way round the supermarket / store!!! Lol) X 
It's been pretty weird here since the Paris attacks. I was shocked that a teacher at the school played some games with the kids last week and one involved them pretending to shoot each other and fall over.. French schools can be very un PC but this week it just seemed very wrong!! I emailed a complaint but I doubt anyone will reply.
The school did a minute of silence for the victims in Paris. My eldest (7) asked a few questions about why and who and if the baddies would come here. Luckily my youngest two didn't get it at all and seemed to think it was all a bit of a game. Which is fine for now. Ignorance and innocence is bliss I say!..


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## Kellen

Hello Everyone,

It's been a while. Lots and lots of things have changed. First of all, congratulations Sierra on boy #2! And good luck getting your house sold. I know how stressful that can be.

Helena - My heart goes out to everyone in France. I'm not sure if anyone here remember the Umpqua Community College shooting from Oct 1st of this year, but it hit pretty close to home. Actually, far too close, Teagen and I had been in the classroom where the 9 were killed the Monday before the shooting and where supposed to be there THAT evening for another class. I still get shakey thinking about it.

Wamommy - Lots of rain. Hopefully our respective states will not burn quite as fiercely this coming summer. And I wouldn't worry about Max not using the potty. Most of the boys in Teagen's church class are behind the girls in potty useage. Teagen has started saying: "What the heck?!" after hearing me and my mom say it once. I'm trying to move her onto: "What in the world?!" Which she says is "ridiculous."

Dragon - Your kiddos sound like a lot of fun. They are adorable.

Brief recap since July:

Nephew C. came to live with us and work for us at the shop. Teagen and the dog immediately hated him and said he didn't like them (aka calm dog all of a sudden started biting people, including C). Found out C was hanging around local drug dealers and doing not so great things. Sent him away.
DH's mom had a lumpectomy and was sent home. She stopped breathing and had a heart attack and almost died. We then spent waaaaay too much money to go see her and the rental car broke four times and I lost my ID and debit card. Awesome trip...
I decided to change my speciality for my PhD program as well as take two classes instead of one at a time. This was actually an amazing decision! I am loving it and it is actually easier to be motivated for two classes rather than one. Not looking forward to stats next quarter though...
DH comes home on the 5th for a good long while. He has his time and we are finalizing his testing for his degree.

Wamommy - Why in the world Maine? Come on, the California Maritime Academy was good enough for me! And the Texas A&M Maritime Academy was good enough for DH. In Maine they have horrible hazing practices and actually have to WAX the floor! But it is a good program. What license track is your step-daughter in? I sailed with a couple of MMA students back in 2008.

No second baby for us. I think I might have a new job starting at the end of December. Due to the UCC shooting a new healthcare network is being implemented in our county. They have asked me to come on board as their emergency preparedness expert. I'm pretty excited. I'll be sitting down next week to sketch out the details with the organization.

And some gratuitous pictures of Teagen that I took yesterday. We are giving away free 4x6 of recently groomed dogs at our shop so I needed a model to help with the camera settings.
 



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## wamommy

Kellen, it's so great to hear from you!! It sounds like things have been really busy. Teagen is SO cute. I am loving her bangs. I'm glad your DH will be home for Christmas. 
I WISH my step daughter was in California. She does too, lol! She actually ended up in Maine due to a bunch of domino-effect ball droppings. She wanted to go to the Naval Academy, and because she had a 4.0 and was CO of her NJROTC program, and she also had a senatorial nomination, she thought the naval academy was a gimme. She didn't get in.. :( She applied to 4-5 other colleges as "backups" (including USC, Stanford, West Point, and University of Washington), but only UW accepted her. After looking into it, UW wouldn't offer room and board as part of her scholarship, so she was pretty much SOL... until she did some research and found out that Maine Maritime accepted applications through MAY. She applied and was accepted, and then chose to go there based on it covering room and board. She knew nothing about it until she got there, sigh... Oh, she got in the Citadel too, but was scared of the hazing and physicality of the PT. It's referred to as "Westpoint on crack," lol. It should all work out, but it certainly wasn't the plan.

Helena, the Paris shootings were so terrible... I can't imagine the impact it's had over there. DH loves to watch the news and the specials about horrible incidents like that, but I just can't stomach it. Seeing images of horrific human suffering just makes my heart hurt too much. 

On a lighter note, I have NO IDEA where Max got this, but Luca was being pretty annoying the other day and Max looked at him and said, "Luca, we're going to sell you to the Chinese." WTH???


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## Kellen

Oh, Max! That is awesome... disturbing, but awesome.

Only 5 days until DH is home! We are all super excited, especially Teagen. The bangs were longer... until someone decided to playing grooming shop with her own hair. Perfect square in the middle, almost to her hairline... in August. They have just now grown out.

I go tomorrow morning to meet with my new potential employer. We are meeting for coffee. We've spoken over the phone and via email, but this will be our first face to face. I've basically been promised the job, but they are saying they have to post it for legal reasons. I have some questions, but otherwise I'm pretty excited.

Everyone here was/is sick. My mom had it, then my dad and now me. I'm praying that Teagen and my grandmother are spared.


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## DragonflyWing

Hey Kellen- who's running the shop when DH is gone and you are getting a new job? Do you have employees other than your nephew? Your life seems so busy but fulfilling.

I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. Mine was small, just DH, the kids, my sister, and a lady from church. It was the first time I cooked a Thanksgiving "feast" (made turkey, duck, mashed potatoes, stuffing, biscuits, two pies, rice and peas, and cranberry sauce), and everything turned out well, I was pretty impressed with myself lol.

Next up, my parents are coming to visit on December 16th, the twins turn 3 on December 19th, my sister is getting married on the 20th, then Christmas. Two weekends in a row we'll be driving down to Milwaukee (3 hours each way). Woof.


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## Kellen

Dragon - You don't sound busy at all! Just kidding, that is a lot of travel time with a lot of little people! Great job on the dinner. It sounds tasty.

Thankfully our nephew is no longer at the shop... Drugs just aren't in the cards. But yes, we have one full-time employee and another one who is part-time. Also it looks like my job will be four days a week and mostly telecommuting when I'm not out actively talking with people and doing training. We have a friend who owns her own small business who is willing to come and be our office manager for a couple of the days I'm working so it should work out nicely.

But yes, I unofficially have been offered the job. They will be posting the position (due to hiring regulations), but I'm slotted to take control of it come the first of January. I'm very excited to be doing something that I love and know a lot about.


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## wamommy

Congrats, Kellen! That sounds amazing. Oh, what I wouldn't give to have a chance to do what I love for work! Staying home with the kids is rewarding in its own way, but lately I've been so extremely stressed and worn out that the idea of having a fulfilling job (and a break from screaming) sounds like heaven.

Dragon, it sounds like you have a busy December coming up! I admire your Thanksgiving menu, too! Everyone in my extended family had other plans, so I just went to Costco and let them provide a lovely meal for us, lol. The kids weren't any wiser and it was certainly easier. That, and I can't cook! 

My stepdaughter comes home next Wednesday, so that should be good. She's really helpful, especially with Max. Nothing else is really new here. We're just plodding along!


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## Kellen

Well, DH is home, and that is a good/rocky thing. Great because he can help. Rocky because he doesn't know our normal routine and adds some stress. It will be better when we are in our own house.

In two days (Monday) I call to discuss what my salary expectations are and what hours I want to work. If I get to telecommute for the majority of it I'm asking for 40 hours, if not 32 will be fine. Other good news! DH passed the physical fitness test for our local sheriff's department. Hopefully he'll get hired as a deputy and not have to go back to sea!


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## wamommy

Merry (almost) Christmas, all!! I hope it's a wonderful one.

Kellen, I'm sorry the transition with DH is a bit rough, but it should get better. Has it?

Things have been nuts here. I knew my stress level was high, but I didn't really know how to change it. Between the holidays, the kids and finances, I've been a mess. 2 nights ago it all came to a head. You know that scary heart thing that I get randomly every few years? Well, it happened last month, but went away in only 4-5 hours. On Monday morning I woke up to a really rapid heartbeat and thought, oh crap... It raced to 170 and held there ALL DAY. I called my endocrinologist, who had just changed my prescriptions a little, and he took 3 hours to call back, at which time his nurse told me his advice was to head straight to the ER. I went to urgent care, thinking it would be faster, and they flipper their lid when the heart monitor started beeping crazily and flashing 171! They called over to the ER (across the street) and the ER sent someone to take me via wheelchair. I told them I was fine to walk, at this point I'd been dealing with it going on 8 hours... but they insisted. Once in the ER they rushed me back where the Dr, pulmonary specialist and nurses did an ecg and put 2 IVs in. After the ecg the Doc confirmed the SVT diagnosis (supraventricular tachycardia) and they told me they NEEDED to slow it down. SOmething about nodes and electric signals, and blah blah blah... all I heard was that if they couldn't slow it, it could get exhausted and stop. Me heart was stuck on stupid and needed a "reset" as they called it. They explained that the first way they would try was to give me a drug that would STOP MY HEART... yes. You read right. Commence freak out. If that didn't work, they said I'd need to be shocked. At this point I'm crying and thinking of my kids and what would happen if my heart didn't start back up. They had sticky paddle things on my chest that could shock me "just in case, but don't worry, that's highly unlikely." They injected the drug, and it felt like warm mud filled my body, and it was oddly pleasant. If that's what the real death will be like, I'm cool with it... anyhow, my heart started back up as planned, and worked its way down to 100, where it stayed for enough time to convince the doctors that I was "fixed." I have to see a cardiologist to discuss prevention and options if this keeps happening. This is the first time my body couldn't fix it. It was terrifying. I can honestly say I haven't ever been so scared. I'm ok now. It's odd to get back to doing dishes, cleaning the catbox, etc, when I feel like everything has changed.

Anyhow, that's where I am! I haven't even called my mom, since she's a pastor and these next 2 days are here busiest of the year. She preaches 6 times in 2 days!

How are you all doing?? What are your plans for Xmas?


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## DragonflyWing

wamommy, that sounds terrifying! I'm so sorry you went through that! My goodness, do they know why this happens? I didn't even know there was a drug that would temporarily stop your heart. Yikes. I'm so glad you're feeling better now, but I can understand why it feels like everything is different, and weird to go back to mundane things. Super huge hugs from me.

How was your holiday? I told you all about our big plans, but the flu threw a wrench into everything. I spent Christmas eve and Christmas in bed with a 102-104 fever, and we didn't go to Milwaukee for family Christmas. Oddly enough, it was a bit of a relief lol. I still feel like crap, and I'm working from home today. Some of the family came over this morning to give the kids their gifts, so that's nice. Especially because I'm hiding in the bedroom because I'm contagious ;)


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## DragonflyWing

My computer ate part of my reply, sorry for the double post!


The twins birthday on the 19th was nice, my parents were visiting and the twins loved it. We spent that night and the next in a hotel for my sister's wedding, and the kids got to play in the kiddie pool which had a water slide and a fountain...I had to drag them out when it was time for bed because they didn't want to stop playing!

My sister's wedding was nice, very small with only 15 people, and the couple wrote their own vows, which were very sweet. My sister looked lovely; she asked me to do her hair and makeup, and I was so nervous I'd mess it up, but it turned out nice. Here was her hair (after about 8 hours so it was a little messy at this point):
 



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## helena

hi ladies!!!! Oh it's been too long. How are we??? Wamommy I hope your heart has been behaving!! Sounded horrific. You poor girl!! Xxxx

2016 started terribly for me. My mum passed away in Febuary. She started to go downhill from just after Christmas and I was with her when she left. It's just awful. I am ok on the surface, I get the kids to school on time and their socks usually match.. But it's hard. 

On happier news Kiara is doing great. She is funny and bright and cheeky and loves ice cream and watching Ben and Holly or Peppa Pig. She is very affectionate - I swear she is an angel sent to cheer me up. 

I hope you are all well, I think of you oftenxxxxxx X


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## wamommy

Helena, I'm so sorry to hear about your Mom! A million tight hugs to you. I'm so glad you have Kiara to cheer you up. She sounds like such an amazing girl. :) Kids are a great reminder that life won't stop for us and that we still have really important little people that need us, despite deep sadness or illness. You are amazing, helena. You are so strong and such a good mom.

Dragonfly, your sister's hair looks so pretty! It sounds like a wonderful ceremony. My husband and I eloped to Vegas, so I never had a wedding, really. A small wedding with those I love most sounds wonderful.

As for my silly heart, it's doing well. I have seen a cardiologist and had ultrasounds of my heart (which is really cool) and everything looks structurally normal. yay! Apparently I have a tweeky node that just goes bonkers sometimes. I've only had one episode since then, so that's good. I may opt for the surgery to zap the node if it gets too bad, but it's manageable. 

Luca turned 2 yesterday. Can you believe it?? Time is truly whizzing by. I dare not blink or I'll lose a year. Max is doing well. He's such a smart little guy! He hates being dirty, doesn't much care for food, and loves anything having to do with his samsung tablet or video games. He's very small for his age and still wears 24 months clothes, lol. he might grow if he starts eating!

We took a trip to San Diego to go house hunting. It looks like we're moving in the next few months! We found a great school district north of the city. We have to sell our house first and then we're going. Exciting!! Here's a couple pics from our trip. Max split his cheek open on my uncle's fireplace during our trip... :dohh:
 



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## Kellen

Wow. It has been ages since I have been on here.

Helena - I am so sorry to hear about your mom. I'm glad that Kiara is such a sweet girl to help cheer you up.

Wamommy - Glad that your heart isn't too outta whack.

So... It has been a while. I have been in my new job since January. It is fantastic and my co-workers and boss are wonderful. I truly enjoy what I am doing, even though Teagen is less than thrilled with having me work away from home. I do telework one day away and starting this month I'll be doing half days on Monday's so I can go with Teagen to dance class.

DH is still away on the boat. He thinks that he'll need to do one more year so that he has experience and then he'll have the licenses' he needs to begin applying for positions here on the West Coast. He was home a week and a half ago for his birthday and father's day.

At this time he is trying to convince me that we need another child. I'm not 100% convinced yet. But... I am currently in the TWW. I still have the IUD, but I'm having very abnormal symptoms. My breasts are super sore and I woke up dreaming someone was trying to cut off my nipples. And I'm tired. More tired that normal. As in I feel asleep at my desk during the past two days. I guess we'll see...

Sierra - I'm sure you've had your second baby by now. 

Dragon - I hope you the twins, and your little boy are doing well.


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